# 27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377

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## Mrc

Good. Let them come

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## YeBeWarned

@Windjammer @Tps43

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## Cash GK

Starlord said:


> @Windjammer @Tps43





Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318


teach them lesson

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## Goenitz

if we haves something like harp... can we jam them? i hope Chinese haev already made something like that


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## YeBeWarned

Cash GK said:


> teach them lesson



they run back, like always ..

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## Skywalker

They should have let them cross the border, then we could have had the valid reason to shoot them down, for me an early opportunity missed. These buggers are only checking our ooperational readiness.

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## graphican

India tried intrusion at 3am
Bahawalpur region
Intersepted by PAF F16s.
Yindus ran away without any further activity.
Falcons did two air blasts after.

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## Cash GK

Starlord said:


> they run back, like always ..


my experience with indians they are not fools. they are extera afraid nation. thy will keep testing us..they can not war directly. they wil use proxies from afghanistan side.. they are putting pressure on us to bring army from afghan side to indian side so they can do terrorist attack on pakistan from afghanistan side..we should not remove our army from afghanistan side. they are bluffing.. investors who invested in india willl not allow them to do silly stuff

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## Darth Vader

Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I think they are testing to see if our SAM are active or they are turned off
Plus trying to calculate our response

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## The Diplomat

ADA scrambled quickly, good work boys!


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## The Sandman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100196030816182272Damn... and i thought things will start to get normalize...

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## Cash GK

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.


f16 were updated by turkey long time before beyond visual configuration.. update yourself before paf put you guys in wooden box which you guys will buy from russian and even your leaders will bribe for that wooden box

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## Skywalker

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.


Yes yes.

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## YeBeWarned

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.



you mean , 100,000,000 Pakistani dead right ? cause that is what Pee News , Idiot TV and Arnap GowSwine will be telling his Audience .

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## Jackdaws

Cash GK said:


> my experience with indians they are not fools. they are extera afraid nation. thy will keep testing us..they can not war directly. they wil use proxies from afghanistan side.. they are putting pressure on us to bring army from afghan side to indian side so they can do terrorist attack on pakistan from afghanistan side..we should not remove our army from afghanistan side. they are bluffing.. investors who invested in india willl not allow them to do silly stuff


Except for the fools bit, we have a pretty similar opinion of your tactics.



Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.


I doubt it.


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## The Diplomat

The Sandman said:


> Damn... and i thought things will start to get normalize...


Modi can't allow for the situation to normalise without some kind of show of response, he needs to look strong before the elections. Whether it be another surgical strike drama or something new.


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## Cash GK

Jackdaws said:


> Except for the fools bit, we have a pretty similar opinion of your tactics.


with my experience i have beaten your indian fellows twice in oman.. one of them was taller then me .. dame they were beaten well.. after that no one came to challenge my authority until i was there..


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## YeBeWarned

Jackdaws said:


> I doubt it.



what do you think ? will modi get away if he didn't do anything ? will he be able to satisfy the anger of Indian public to save elections ?


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## American Pakistani

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318



Why didn't shoot them? Who cares about scrambling or what, they intruded and went back unharmed, remember how they shot Pakistan Navy plane in late 90's killing many personal on board, but here we are just scrambling.

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## Cash GK

Starlord said:


> what do you think ? will modi get away if he didn't do anything ? will he be able to satisfy the anger of Indian public to save elections ?


he will take them in hell.. only hindu country. what shame. got government after thousand years. but acting like monkeys


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## The Diplomat

American Pakistani said:


> Why didn't shoot them? Who cares about scrambling or what, they intruded and went back unharmed, remember how they shot Pakistan Navy plane in late 90's killing many personal on board, but here we are just scrambling.


I lost someone on that aircraft, might not have got a clean lock on the aircraft or maybe PAF was exercising restraint.

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## Lincoln

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.



You do realize that the detection range is not same as missile range. While variants exist that can shoot up to 400km, which India only has one, for air-to-air combat; it has an extremely high load.


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## The Sandman

The Diplomat said:


> Modi can't allow for the situation to normalise without some kind of show of response, he needs to look strong before the elections. Whether it be another surgical strike drama or something new.


Yep they're definitely upto something this time their media have created too much hype. What if they're planning to launch airstrikes on that madrassah in Bahawalpur? I wonder what happens if they attempt to do that and we shoot down one of their jets.... nazuk surate haal hai

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## Zarvan

graphican said:


> India tried intrusion at 3am
> Bahawalpur region
> Intersepted by PAF F16s.
> Yindus ran away without any further activity.
> Falcons did two air blasts after.


ISPR tweet has mentioned LOC. Bahawalpur is international border


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## graphican

India has taken the revenge!

They tried to enter pakistani airspace, and totally couldn't, but the revenge of Pakistan's involvement in pulwama without a shead of evidence has been taken. 

Lets make movie surgical strike 2.

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## Zarvan

@Rafi @Horus What latest you have


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## Cash GK

The Sandman said:


> Yep they're definitely upto something this time their media have created too much hype. What if they're planning to launch airstrikes on that madrassah in Bahawalpur? I wonder what happens if they attempt to do that and we shoot down one of their jets.... nazuk surate haal hai


we down their three jets in kagil war. with out even flying a jet..there will be no surprise..

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## Path-Finder

moohdhi needs a chest thump but at what cost?


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## The Diplomat

The Sandman said:


> Yep they're definitely upto something this time their media have created too much hype. What if they're planning to launch airstrikes on that madrassah in Bahawalpur? I wonder what happens if they attempt to do that and we shoot down one of their jets.... nazuk surate haal hai


Sialkot Sector could be an option for them as it's touching the LOC. India has hiped up operations on and around the LOC however there no heavy movements on the international boarder. Yar yeh drama har saal hota hai, things will get back to normal soon.

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## JonAsad

Don't we have SAMS? You see a plane you shoot it down. Whats good is scrambling??


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## Rafi

Zarvan said:


> @Rafi @Horus What latest you have



I am not at liberty to discuss operational matters, all I am permitted to say is that multiple assets were used to monitor Indian movement all across the indian peninsular. 

A close ally is helping.

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## The Diplomat

JonAsad said:


> Don't we have SAMS? You see a plane you shoot it down. Whats good is scrambling??


Pakistan Military & Government probably exercising restraint, probably don't want to make the situation more volatile than it needs to be.

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## The Sandman

The Diplomat said:


> Yar yeh drama har saal hota hai, things will get back to normal soon.


I really hope they do. But their war mongering has gone too far this time imo

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well if we used the SAM it will kill Indian plane *95%-98%* of time

If we scramble a jet it is a soft chase , deescalation, and we only lose some fuel for planes


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## Darth Vader

Jackdaws said:


> Except for the fools bit, we have a pretty similar opinion of your tactics.
> 
> 
> I doubt it.


It was a joke but you have to understand that all the hype built up in india by media 
Politicians need some place to vent that out for next election

Modis current image is the macho man of region if they dont do anything what do you think will happen

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## Jackdaws

Cash GK said:


> with my experience i have beaten your indian fellows twice in oman.. one of them was taller then me .. dame they were beaten well.. after that no one came to challenge my authority until i was there..


Congrats. I hope those 2 ladies didn't complain to the cops.

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## Lincoln

JonAsad said:


> Don't we have SAMS? You see a plane you shoot it down. Whats good is scrambling??



Maybe they exercised restraint, for the good and bad reasons, whichever you want to consider.


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## Yaseen1

In response we should violate indian airspace also

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## Lincoln

Jackdaws said:


> Congrats. I hope those 2 ladies didn't complain to the cops.


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## JonAsad

The Diplomat said:


> Pakistan Military & Government probably exercising restraint, probably don't want to make the situation more volatile than it needs to be.


Payback for atlantique is long due -


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## ghazi52

Testing 1, 2, 3...............
*Indian Air Force violated Line of Control.*

Director General, Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major General Asif Ghafoor in a tweet said Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled and Indian aircrafts gone back.


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## The wheel of time

Alternatiiv said:


> You do realize that the detection range is not same as missile range. While variants exist that can shoot up to 400km, which India only has one, for air-to-air combat; it has an extremely high load.



Of course, but that gives us significant advantage above the old f16s of 80s. besides the flankers have unmatched monoeuverability and ever eurofighters were not able to defeat it then where do f16s stand. There is a reason why India does not want them, they are obsolete and stand zero chance against the likes of flankers and rafales and even mig29s.


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## The Diplomat

JonAsad said:


> Payback for atlantique is long due -


Sure is, I said it before... I lost someone on that flight and it hurts badly. Our sovereignty is not for sale.


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## ghazi52




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## Jackdaws

Starlord said:


> what do you think ? will modi get away if he didn't do anything ? will he be able to satisfy the anger of Indian public to save elections ?


Modi is many things. He is not stupid. Many Indians including I are hoping he loses the election. But yes, pressure on him by the opposition is only going to ratchet up. In India, there is usually unity in times of such attacks across party lines. Modi broke that rule when he went to Bombay during 26/11 and deeply criticized Manmohan Singh. The shoe is now on the other foot.

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## Zarvan

Rafi said:


> I am not at liberty to discuss operational matters, all I am permitted to say is that multiple assets were used to monitor Indian movement all across the indian peninsular.
> 
> A close ally is helping.


Sir what I am asking is How much they came in today and in which sector


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## The wheel of time

JonAsad said:


> Don't we have SAMS? You see a plane you shoot it down. Whats good is scrambling??



were you able to shoot down our mig25 back in 97?

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## ziaulislam

American Pakistani said:


> Why didn't shoot them? Who cares about scrambling or what, they intruded and went back unharmed, remember how they shot Pakistan Navy plane in late 90's killing many personal on board, but here we are just scrambling.


A fighter can pomp in and leave within 30seconds


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## Zarvan

JonAsad said:


> Don't we have SAMS? You see a plane you shoot it down. Whats good is scrambling??


Even the short range SAM are not placed just after the fence if India just comes close to fence it would be called intrusion


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## Jackdaws

The Diplomat said:


> Sure is, I said it before... I lost someone on that flight and it hurts badly. Our sovereignty is not for sale.


I am really sorry to hear that. It's been many years, but I am sure it must have been terrible.

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## The Diplomat

The wheel of time said:


> were you able to shoot down our mig25 back in 97?


Mig-27 & Mig-21 in '99, plus a chopper.

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## ZAC1

Jet sounds in gujranwala


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## The Diplomat

Jackdaws said:


> I am really sorry to hear that. It's been many years, but I am sure it must have been terrible.


I'm just hoping history doesn't repeat itself, I would do anything to avoid a war. Pakistan & India need more trade between each other to reduce these situations, prime example being France & Germany. Thank you for your condolences.


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## Clutch

*Indian aircraft violate LoC, go back after PAF immediately scrambles: ISPR*

Dawn.comUpdated February 26, 2019
Facebook Count57
Twitter Share
13




Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major-General Asif Ghafoor. - ISPR/File

Indian military planes violated the Line of Control (LoC), Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major-General Asif Ghafoor said on his official Twitter account early on Tuesday.

Maj-Gen Ghafoor in his tweet said "Indian Air Force violated Line of Control", following which "Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled" and Indian aircraft went back.

"Details to follow," the military spokesman said towards the end of his tweet.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100179216375693318

Indian Air Force violated Line of Control. Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back. Details to follow.


4,182
4:42 PM - Feb 25, 2019
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3,428 people are talking about this





Ties between Pakistan and India have been tense since a suicide bombing in occupied Kashmir killed over 40 Indian soldiers, with New Delhi blaming Pakistan of being complicit in the attack — a charge Islamabad has denied vehemently and from the get-go.

_Read more | Dawn Exclusive: A time for restraint_

In response to India's allegations, Prime Minister Imran Khan promised New Delhi to conduct an investigation if provided “actionable evidence” but also warned that Pakistan will "retaliate" if attacked. The Pakistan army has also warned India to avoid "any misadventure", saying it could have dangerous consequences.

On the other hand, while Jaish-e-Muhammad had claimed responsibility for the attack, New Delhi immediately blamed Islamabad and also announced that it would launch a diplomatic offensive to isolate Pakistan in the international community.

Furthermore, India has scrapped the Most Favoured Nation status granted to Pakistan and has imposed a 200 per cent customs duty on its goods, barring the exports of tomatoes to Pakistan and denying visas to Pakistani athletes.

_More on this: A terrifying fallout_

The international community has expressed alarm over the situation and as Delhi is ratcheting up regional tensions, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi has also cancelled his scheduled official trip to Japan.


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## YeBeWarned

Jackdaws said:


> Modi is many things. He is not stupid. Many Indians including I are hoping he loses the election. But yes, pressure on him by the opposition is only going to ratchet up. In India, there is usually unity in times of such attacks across party lines. Modi broke that rule when he went to Bombay during 26/11 and deeply criticized Manmohan Singh. The shoe is now on the other foot.



I think that even Govt was not anticipating that reaction or rhetoric used by the media , they have riled up the people to the point that now they want war and blood nothing less, and as you say Modi set different standards for his tough stands, so now he can not afford to look weak . we may disagree on the Surgical strike but one thing for sure that in India people believe it and now they don't even want another surgical strike they want a full scale war which i think even your army is little hesitant in starting .

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## Signalian

500 said:


> The update of my previous threads:
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/top-43-air-forces-based-on-plane-quality-and-quantity.357783/
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/22-top-airforces-based-on-plane-quality-and-quantity.162974/
> 
> Fleet numbers are from Flight International WAF 2019.
> 
> View attachment 541764
> 
> 
> https://www.flightglobal.com/asset/26019/waf
> 
> *Air/Ground points:*
> 
> F-16C = 1/1
> F-16A = 0.7/0.8
> F-16AM = 1/0.8
> F-16A OCU = 1/0.9
> F-16 block 52+ aka F-16I = 1.1/1.2
> F-16 block 60 = 1.3/1.2
> F-15A = 1.2/0.5
> F-15C = 1.3/0.5
> F-15E = 1.4/1.5
> F-15S = 1.3/1.4
> F-15SG = 1.5/1.5
> F-18A = 1/1.1
> F-18C = 1.05/1.15
> F-18F = 1.3/1.3
> F-2 = 1.3/1.2
> F-16AM = 1/08
> F-22 = 3/1
> F-35A = 2.5/2.5
> F-35B = 2.3/2.2
> Mirage 2000 = 1/1
> Typhoon (MESA radar) = 1.4/1.1
> Rafale (PESA radar) = 1.3/1.2
> Tornado IDS = 0.5/1.2
> Tornado ADV = 1/0.6
> F-4 = 0.3/0.6
> F-4 Terminator = 0.6/1
> Su-27 = 1.2/0.4
> Su-27SM = 1.3/0.8
> Su-35 = 1.4/1.2
> MiG-29 = 0.9/0.5
> MiG-29SMT = 1/1
> Su-30MKI = 1.3/1.2
> Su-30MKK = 1.2/1.2
> MiG-21 aka J7 = 0.25/0.35
> MiG-27 = 0.2/0.7
> JF-17 = 0.9/0.8
> AMX = 0.2/0.5
> Mirage F.1 = 0.7/0.8
> Mirage 3/5 = 0.25/0.35
> Jaguar = 0.2/0.6
> F-5 = 0.25/0.35
> J-20 = 2.7/1
> J-10 = 1/1
> J-8 = 0.6/0.4
> JH-7 = 0.5/1.1
> Q-5 = 0.1/0.4
> H-6 = 0/2
> 
> T-22M3 = 0/3
> Tu-95 = 0/6
> Tu-160 = 0/8
> B-1B = 0/9
> B-2A = 0/10
> B-52H = 0/6.5
> 
> E-3, Phalcon, KJ-2000, Boeing 737 = 8/2
> Saab, KJ-200 = 6/1.5
> E-2C, ZDK-03 = 4/1
> 
> jet, A400 tankers = 2/6
> KC-130, H-6 tankers = 1/4
> 
> =========================================================
> 
> *Fleet numbers:*
> 
> Australia
> 
> 54 F-18A
> 24 F-18F
> 6 Boeing 737 AEW&C
> 6 A-330 tanker
> Algeria
> 
> 13 MiG-25
> 32 MiG-29
> 23 Su-24
> 58 Su-30MKA
> 3 Il-78MT
> Belarus
> 39 MiG-29
> 68 Su-25
> Belgium
> 
> 52 F-16AM
> Brazil
> 
> 47 F-5E
> 55 AMX
> 5 Erieye
> 2 KC-130H
> 
> China
> 
> 235 J-10
> 10 J-20
> 99 Su-30MKK
> 223 Su-27 and J-11
> 24 Su-35
> 96 J-8
> 388 J-7 (MiG-21)
> 70 JH-7
> 118 Q-5
> 120 H-6 (Tu-16)
> 5 KJ-2000
> 16 KJ-200
> 8 IL-78 tanker
> 10 H-6 tanker
> Chile
> 
> 46 F-16A
> 11 F-5E
> 1 797 AEW
> 2 KC-130 tanker
> 6 KC-135 tanker
> 
> Canada
> 
> 77 F-18A
> 2 A-310 tanker
> 4 KC-130
> Denmark
> 
> 44 F-16AM
> 
> Egypt
> 
> 50 F-16A
> 168 F-16C
> 19 Mirage 2000
> 13 Alpha Jet
> 54 MiG-21 & J-7
> 75 Mirage V
> 7 E-2C
> 17 Rafale
> 15 MiG-29M
> Finland
> 
> 62 F-18C/D
> 1 C285 AEW
> 
> France
> 101 Rafale
> 137 Mirage 2000
> 4 E-3
> 14 KC-135
> 1 A330 tanker
> 2 A400 tanker
> Germany
> 
> 122 Typhoon
> 62 Tornado IDS
> 28 Tornado ECR
> 4 A310 tanker
> 2 A400 tanker
> 
> Greece
> 
> 93 F-16C/D
> 60 F-16C block 52+
> 42 Mirage 2000
> 33 F-4E Icarus
> 4 Erieye
> India
> 229 Su-30MKI
> 61 Mirage 2000
> 66 MiG-29
> 44 MiG-27ML
> 134 MiG-21Bis
> 160 Jaguar
> 3 Phalcon AEW
> 7 IL-78MKI
> 10 Tejas
> 
> Iran
> 
> 24 F-14
> 20 MiG-29
> 9 Mirage F1
> 17 F-7
> 88 F-4E
> 47 F-5
> 23 Su-24
> 7 Boeing 707 tanker
> 
> Iraq
> 
> 26 F-16IQ
> 25 Su-25
> 10 L-159
> 
> Israel
> 
> 12 F-35A
> 25 F-15I
> 41 F-15 C/D
> 17 F-15 A/B
> 99 F-16I
> 124 F-16C/D
> 2 G550 AEW
> 9 KC-707 tankers
> 4 KC-130 tankers
> 
> Italy
> 
> 88 Typhoon
> 61 Tornado IDS
> 14 Tornado ECR
> 40 AMX
> 4 KC-767 tankers
> 4 KC-130 tankers
> 6 F-35
> 2 G550 AEW
> Japan
> 87 F-2
> 200 F-15C/D
> 72 F-4E
> 4 E-767 AEW
> 13 E-2C AEW
> 4 KC-767
> 1 KC-130
> 9 F-35
> 
> Jordan
> 
> 44 F-16A MLU
> Kazakhstan
> 20 Su-27
> 25 MiG-29
> 29 MiG-31
> 12 MiG-27
> 3 MiG-23
> 13 Su-24
> 14 Su-25
> 
> South Korea
> 
> 59 F-15K
> 123 F-16C/D
> 44 F-16C block 52+
> 60 FA-50
> 71 F-4E
> 158 F-5E
> 4 Boeing 737 AEW
> 
> North Korea
> 35 Mig-29
> 56 Mig-23
> 26 MiG-21
> 120 F-7
> 97 F-6
> 106 F-5
> 80 H-5
> 34 Su-25
> 18 Su-7
> 
> Malaysia
> 18 Su-30MKM
> 13 MiG-29
> 8 F-18D
> 13 Hawk 208
> 4 KC-130 tanker
> 
> Netherlands
> 
> 68 F-16A OCU
> 2 KDC-10
> 
> Norway
> 
> 55 F-16AM
> 9 F-35
> 
> Oman
> 
> 12 Typhoon
> 23 F-16C
> 10 Hawk 203
> 
> Pakistan
> 
> 98 JF-17
> 13 F-16ADF
> 45 F-16A/B OCU
> 18 F-16C block 52+
> 69 Mirage III
> 90 Mirage V
> 136 F-7
> 4 Erieye AEW
> 4 ZDK-03 AEW
> 3 Il-76 tanker
> 
> Peru
> 
> 19 MiG-29
> 9 Mirage 2000
> 18 Su-25
> 24 A-37
> Poland
> 
> 48 F-16C block 52+
> 31 MiG-29
> 32 Su-22
> 
> Russia
> 
> 60 MiG-31
> 109 MiG-31BM
> 65 Su-27
> 68 Su-27SM
> 126 Su-30
> 75 MiG-29
> 50 MiG-29SMT
> 110 Su-24
> 112 Su-34
> 195 Su-25
> 59 Tu-22M3
> 62 Tu-95
> 16 Tu-160
> 10 A-50 AEW
> 19 Il-78 tanker
> 78 Su-35
> 
> Saudi Arabia
> 
> 72 Typhoon
> 78 F-15C/D
> 70 F-15S
> 24 F-15SA
> 81 Tornado IDS
> 2 Saab 2000 AEW
> 5 E-3 AEW
> 7 707 tanker
> 6 A330 tanker
> 9 KC-130 tanker
> 
> Singapore
> 
> 40 F-15SG
> 40 F-16C
> 20 F-16C block 52+
> 1 A330 tanker
> 4 G550 AEW
> 4 KC-135 tanker
> 5 KC-130 tanker
> 
> Sweden
> 
> 95 Gripen
> 2 Saab 340 AEW
> 1 KC-130 tanker
> 
> Switzerland
> 
> 30 F/A-18C
> 36 F-5E
> Spain
> 
> 64 Typhoon
> 72 F-18A
> 1 A400 tanker
> 5 KC-130 tanker
> 
> Syria
> 
> 20 MiG-29
> 2 MiG-25
> 87 MiG-23
> 51 MiG-21
> 40 Su-22
> 20 Su-24
> 
> Taiwan
> 
> 55 Mirage 2000
> 140 F-16AM
> 128 F-CK-1
> 25 F-5E
> 6 E-2C
> 
> Thailand
> 
> 11 JAS 39
> 14 F-16ADF
> 39 F-16A OCU
> 34 F-5
> 18 Alpha Jet
> 2 Saab 340 AEW
> 
> Turkey
> 
> 211 F-16 C/D
> 34 F-16 block 50+
> 49 F-4 Terminator 2020
> 4 Boeing 737 AEW
> 7 KC-135 tanker
> 
> UAE
> 
> 77 F-16E
> 57 Mirage 2000
> 2 Saab 340
> 3 A-330 tanker
> 
> UK
> 
> 117 Typhoon
> 21 Tornado GR4
> 6 E-3 AEW
> 9 A330 tanker
> 12 F-35B
> 
> USA
> 
> 287 A-10
> 30 AC-130J/U
> 59 B-1B
> 19 B-2A
> 74 B-52H
> 239 F-15C
> 219 F-15E
> 940 F-16C
> 178 F-22
> 31 E-3
> 398 KC-135
> 59 KDC-10
> 65 MC-130
> 46 F-35A
> 
> Ukraine
> 
> 21 MiG-29
> 24 Su-27
> 12 Su-24
> 13 Su-25
> 
> Uzbekistan
> 
> 30 Su-27
> 39 MiG-29
> 20 Su-25
> 
> Vietnam
> 35 Su-30
> 11 Su-27
> 35 Su-22
> 
> Venezuela
> 
> 23 Su-30MK
> 16 F-16A
> 1 707 tanker
> 
> 
> ================================================
> 
> *Final points:*
> 
> 1) USA - 13217
> 2) Russia - 3596
> 3) China - 3233
> 4) India - 1677
> 5) Saudi Arabia - 1390
> 6) Japan - 1340
> 7) Israel - 1298
> 8) South Korea - 1190
> 9) Turkey - 1051
> 10) France - 1037
> 
> 11) Taiwan - 979
> 12) Pakistan - 872
> 13) Egypt - 862
> 14) UK - 782
> 15) Germany - 735
> 16) Greece - 726
> 17) Italy - 698
> 18) UAE - 521
> 19) Singapore - 520
> 20) Spain - 513
> 
> 21) Australia - 429
> 22) North Korea - 378
> 23) Algeria - 374
> 24) Iran - 366
> 25) Sweden - 309
> 26) Canada - 283
> 27) Syria - 279
> 28) Poland - 251
> 29) Thailand - 247
> 30) Norway - 227
> 
> 31) Kazakhstan - 223
> 32) Netherlands - 217
> 33) Finland - 215
> 34) Uzbekistan 192
> 35) Chile -189
> 36) Vietnam - 185
> 37) Brazil - 169
> 38) Malaysia - 155
> 39) Belarus - 151
> 40) Belgium - 146
> 
> 41) Ukraine - 142
> 42) Switzerland 141
> 43) Jordan - 128
> 44) Venezuela - 128
> 45) Denmark -128
> 46) Oman - 121
> 47) Iraq - 97
> 48) Peru - 92



IAF points 1677 and PAF points 872....

The reason these numbers, aircraft quantity and aircraft quality are meaning less because in reality, IAF had to turn back and flee when PAF approached it.

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## Jackdaws

The Diplomat said:


> I'm just hoping history doesn't repeat itself, I would do anything to avoid a war. Pakistan & India need more trade between each other to reduce these situations, prime example being France & Germany. Thank you for your condolences.


Even I hope there is no war. Lives lost on either side would be terrible. I know Pak can't hand over guys like Jaish and LeT to India because they were once strategic assets. I just wish they would prosecute them though on their own soil. They can't poosibly good for Pak itself and for its image.



The wheel of time said:


> oh yeah yeah, I too have beaten four of your guys when i was in kuwait and till the time i lived there the entire chota pakistan locality lived in fear. maybe we can meet someday for a duel.


Both of you bring your keyboards to the fight.

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## The Diplomat

The wheel of time said:


> oh yeah yeah, I too have beaten four of your guys when i was in kuwait and till the time i lived there the entire chota pakistan locality lived in fear. maybe we can meet someday for a duel.


Both of you acting childish.

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## Signalian

JonAsad said:


> Don't we have SAMS? You see a plane you shoot it down.


You shoot the plane and it falls in Indian territory, you are labelled as aggressor who fired on enemy fighter while it was inside its own territory.



> Whats good is scrambling??


Deterrence.

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## Lord Of Gondor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


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## Signalian

American Pakistani said:


> Why didn't shoot them? Who cares about scrambling or what, they intruded and went back unharmed, remember how they shot Pakistan Navy plane in late 90's killing many personal on board, but here we are just scrambling.


Violated LOC....not intruded...IAF planes were in the buffer zone, they did not cross inside Pakistan. This buffer zone is a few miles wide.

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## Jackdaws

Starlord said:


> I think that even Govt was not anticipating that reaction or rhetoric used by the media , they have riled up the people to the point that now they want war and blood nothing less, and as you say Modi set different standards for his tough stands, so now he can not afford to look weak . we may disagree on the Surgical strike but one thing for sure that in India people believe it and now they don't even want another surgical strike they want a full scale war which i think even your army is little hesitant in starting .



Actually I don't really watch Indian media except for some decent channels like WION. I think the Jaish thought it would be another attack which would result in single digit deaths. India is kind of immune to such constant attacks. They did not expect 40 +. Do Indians want war? Some do, some don't. Do they want some form of closure or retribution? Yes. It is only natural.


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## The Diplomat

The wheel of time said:


> that was intel failure on our part as we had no clue that your regulars were there with manpads, no big deal even I can shoot down all your aircraft if i have manpads. but remember the pounding your army received after we withdrew 3rd gen migs and sent in mig29s and mirages.


Lets not forget that PA was heavily outnumbered however our ratios were much better than yours. Lets leave this topic as there will be no winners.

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## JonAsad

Signalian said:


> You shoot the plane and it falls in Indian territory, you are labelled as aggressor who fired on enemy fighter while it was inside its own territory.
> 
> 
> Deterrence.


I am pretty sure just a SAM lock will have more or same effect on indians instead of wasting fuel and time in scrambling .


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## Rafi

Zarvan said:


> Sir what I am asking is How much they came in today and in which sector



They were probing multiple sectors, coming from different angles, even tried from the sea, but having space based Intel, and AWACS flying round the clock, they are exhausting themselves.

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## Signalian

JonAsad said:


> I am pretty sure just a SAM lock will have more or same effect on indians instead of wasting fuel and time in scrambling .


You never know, maybe PAF jets got a lock also but couldn't fire due to debris falling inside India.


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## Path-Finder

Rafi said:


> They were probing multiple sectors, coming from different angles, even tried from the sea, but having space based Intel, and AWACS flying round the clock, they are exhausting themselves.



space based intel? is that use of satellites?


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## JonAsad

Rafi said:


> They were probing multiple sectors, coming from different angles, even tried from the sea, but having *space based Intel*, and AWACS flying round the clock, they are exhausting themselves.



Elaborate please -


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## Signalian

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


wasn't it the 26/11 and today is again 26th.

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## Alpha BeeTee

Rafi said:


> I am not at liberty to discuss operational matters, all I am permitted to say is that multiple assets were used to monitor Indian movement all across the indian peninsular.
> 
> A close ally is helping.


Any input as to why Indians did it? What were they testing? Obviously they didn't arrive to see if PAF is able to freaking scramble or not. And they went back totally unharmed. I cannot imagine PAF crossing into India and coming back witout a bruise.

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## Jackdaws

Lord Of Gondor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


They dropped a payload?


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## JonAsad

The Diplomat said:


> Sure is, I said it before... I lost someone on that flight and it hurts badly. Our sovereignty is not for sale.


Sorry to hear that -

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## Ahmet Pasha

More trade?? So they can block piyaaz as well as tamtars for us next round???


The Diplomat said:


> I'm just hoping history doesn't repeat itself, I would do anything to avoid a war. Pakistan & India need more trade between each other to reduce these situations, prime example being France & Germany. Thank you for your condolences.


----------



## The wheel of time

The Diplomat said:


> Lets not forget that PA was heavily outnumbered however our ratios were much better than yours. Lets leave this topic as there will be no winners.



You dont need numerical superiority when you are holding the advantageous heights and are in a well dug position. If Indian troops were holding those position and pakistani army was trying to recapture them, they couldn't have done it, I am so sure. Siachin ops of 1984 stand testimony to it.


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## Path-Finder

Signalian said:


> wasn't it the 26/11 and today is again 26th.


I am 5hrs behind Pakistan time!

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## Alpha BeeTee

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Well if we used the SAM it will kill Indian plane *95%-98%* of time
> 
> If we scramble a jet it is a soft chase , deescalation, and we only lose some fuel for planes


So why didn't we use a SAM and shot it down? ISPR said that Pakistan will dominate the escalation ladder. Why allowed them to return unharmed? 
These are not good signs no matter what the fanboys want to believe.

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## The Diplomat

Ahmet Pasha said:


> More trade?? So they can block piyaaz as well as tamtars for us next round???


LOL more complicated, if two nations have mutual interests in eachother's economies than why would you try to hurt it?


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## Lord Of Gondor

Jackdaws said:


> They dropped a payload?


Could be a drop tank.How far is Balakot from the LC?


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## BHarwana

IAF entered from Muzaffarabad sector. Pakistan AAM fell near balakot no casulities.


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## Lincoln

The wheel of time said:


> Of course, but that gives us significant advantage above the old f16s of 80s. besides the flankers have unmatched monoeuverability and ever eurofighters were not able to defeat it then where do f16s stand. There is a reason why India does not want them, they are obsolete and stand zero chance against the likes of flankers and rafales and even mig29s.



You highly, highly underestimate F-16 just on the basis of the time of its initial production. The F-16 has undergone immense changes since that time, it is a very much capable aircraft. And the flankers don't have unmatched manoeuvrability, the F-16 was made for Dogfighting, the SU-30MKI was not, although thrust vectoring helps, the F-16 still will dominate the dogfight.

And even for BVR engagements, like I said, F-16 isn't the aircraft of 80s, it is just as capable as the SU-30MKI, it also has the ability to launch such missiles and can have a high range, it comes down to the mods used for the plane, as in the radars and stuff.

You go and tell any fighter enthusiast that F-16 is obsolete and stand zero chance against the likes of flankers, rafales and even mig 29's, and they will hit you right across you face with a hard slap.

The witness to the competitiveness of F-16s is the USAF itself, the Israeli Air Force, and the Greece Air Force.

The USAF to this date, uses F-16s, although phased out its procurement, as it moves onto the fifth generation fighters, the F-16 are still considered really valuable, being used highly in Middle East and Afghanistan.
The Israeli Air Force, for virtually all its known air-based operations and raids, used the F-16, there were several right ups on this, with the Russians even getting mad at Israel at one point.
The Greece Air Force has excelled with the F-16s in their KDR ratios, even scoring really well against F-35's in NATO exercises, they are renowned for their air force due to their good performance in NATO exercises.

You really showed your knowledge regarding Aircrafts by bringing up their initial production time into your argument, it's completely invalid in this case. Turkey, USAF, Greece, Israel, Pakistan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, and many more, aren't retards to dump a whole lot of their budgets for fleets of F-16, its success and upgradation, followed by competitiveness why its still being developed further; check latest procurement by Taiwan.

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## AMG_12

Payload and Balakot  They did intrude deep into Pakistani airspace.


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## The Diplomat

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Could be a drop tank.How far is Balakot from the LC?


I was thinking that.
Not far:


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## JonAsad

Alpha BeeTee said:


> So why didn't we use a SAM and shot it down? ISPR said that Pakistan will dominate the escalation ladder. Why allowed them to return unharmed?
> These are not good signs no matter what the fanboys want to believe.


There are saner minds making rational decisions in auch cases, Thanks God for that.. if it was up to us War would have started already -


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## The Diplomat

Game.Invade said:


> Payload and Balakot  They did intrude deep into Pakistani airspace.


No, PAF dropped a payload. Probably drop tanks to allow increased speed. IAF only intruded the buffer zone.


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## Falcon26

The Diplomat said:


> No, PAF dropped a payload. Probably drop tanks to allow increased speed. IAF only intruded the buffer zone.



Read the tweet again. The IAF planes released the payload

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

There must be a Indian Airbase in Valley near Balakot


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## The Diplomat

BHarwana said:


> IAF entered from Muzaffarabad sector. Pakistan AAM fell near balakot no casulities.


Pakistan fired an AAM?


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## Alpha BeeTee

Lord Of Gondor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


THE HECK!

They dropped a bomb in Pakistan? Whhat?!!


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## Jackdaws

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Could be a drop tank.How far is Balakot from the LC?



No clue. Must be a town close to the LoC or at the LoC.


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## Riz

Balakot is about 20 second flight time from the loc.. If we intercepted them in between and make them run it means alot for PAF


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## Alpha BeeTee

Rafi said:


> They were probing multiple sectors, coming from different angles, even tried from the sea, but having space based Intel, and AWACS flying round the clock, they are exhausting themselves.


Means India is trying to attack.


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## Rafi

IAF armed with "packages" have been probing all along border and LoC were trying to divert PAF from real objective, PAF has still been able to match action for action..

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## The Diplomat

Falcon26 said:


> Read the tweet again. The IAF planes released the payload




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377My bad.


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## Alpha BeeTee

The Diplomat said:


> I was thinking that.
> Not far:


O bhai Balakot bohut andar hai..! It IS deep


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## The Diplomat

Jackdaws said:


> No clue. Must be a town close to the LoC or at the LoC.


It's not too far from LOC.


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## Alpha BeeTee

Falcon26 said:


> Read the tweet again. The IAF planes released the payload


Yes, I had to read the tweet twice. Seems IAF did strike Balakot.


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## The Diplomat

Alpha BeeTee said:


> O bhai Balakot bohut andar hai..! It IS deep


Around 6km bhai, laikin PAF nai drop kiya hai, it makes sense.


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## The Sandman

The Diplomat said:


> No, PAF dropped a payload. Probably drop tanks to allow increased speed. IAF only intruded the buffer zone.


It was IAF who dropped payload while being chased by PAF.

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## AMG_12

The Diplomat said:


> No, PAF dropped a payload. Probably drop tanks to allow increased speed. IAF only intruded the buffer zone.


"released payload in haste while escaping" would imply otherwise. They entered Pakistani airspace near Mzfrabd.

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## Rafi

Breaking.......SFC's have been put on alert, threat of Indian first strike has been acquired.

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## Signalian

The Diplomat said:


> It's not too far from LOC.


Balakot is some what 50 Km aerial distance from LOC. 

which bomb does IAF possess that has a range of 50 km roughly?

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## Ahmet Pasha

No in the tweet the enemy dropped payload while trying to escape in haste.


The Diplomat said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377My bad.

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## Signalian

Game.Invade said:


> "released payload in haste while escaping" would imply otherwise. They entered Pakistani airspace near Mzfrabd.


The bomb was dropped in haste means dropped in a hurry probably from a distance. what are ranges of IAF weapon ordnance


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## Alpha BeeTee

The Sandman said:


> It was IAF who dropped payload while being chased by PAF.
> 
> Btw get ready guys today indian media is gonna start shouting "Aur bharti vayu sena ne krdi Pakistan mein Eeeek aur Surzikal Estrike". @Starlord @Mentee @Zibago


50 aatanki maaray gay! 

The thing is that ISPR had to tweet and tell us kay bhai Bharti aye thay aur aik bamb gira kay bhag gaye hen. I think ISPR wanted to spread its own version of the incident before Indian media paints its own.


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## Ahmet Pasha

Sir what is SFC??
Strategic Command??


Rafi said:


> Breaking.......SFC's have been put on alert, threat of Indian first strike has been acquired.


----------



## Jackdaws

Rafi said:


> Breaking.......SFC's have been put on alert, threat of Indian first strike has been acquired.


What does that mean - SFC?


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Possible intrusion from this Airport, Located south of Srinagar






Or Possibly a airport a bit north

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## Alpha BeeTee

'In haste IAF dropped payload'

Who drops payload in haste? Payload is always dropped intentionally. Ye nahi hota kay Jahaaz darr kay maray payload kar deta hai.

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## JamD

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Sir what is SFC??
> Strategic Command??


Strategic Force Command


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## Zarvan

Alpha BeeTee said:


> THE HECK!
> 
> They dropped a bomb in Pakistan? Whhat?!!


No their fuel tanks


----------



## AMG_12

Signalian said:


> The bomb was dropped in haste means dropped in a hurry probably from a distance. what are ranges of IAF weapon ordnance


Yes, I understand what it means. I said it in response to another member who thought ordnance was dropped by PAF. Depends on what aircrafts intruded. To me, it seems like unguided munitions or drop tanks.


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## Zarvan

Rafi said:


> Breaking.......SFC's have been put on alert, threat of Indian first strike has been acquired.


What does that mean


----------



## The Sandman

Alpha BeeTee said:


> 50 aatanki maaray gay!


Bhai chota number hai 500 krdo phr Indian media ki bezti hai ye to 


Alpha BeeTee said:


> The thing is that ISPR had to tweet and tell us kay bhai Bharti aye thay aur aik bamb gira kay bhag gaye hen. I think ISPR wanted to spread its own version of the incident before Indian media paints its own.


Doesn't matter cuz indian media shouts more and sadly their people are gonna fall for it


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## Ahmet Pasha

Maybe IAF has Premature ejaculation problems hahahahaha


Alpha BeeTee said:


> 'In haste IAF dropped payload'
> 
> Who drops payload in haste? Payload is always dropped intentionally. Ye nahi hota kay Jahaaz darr kay maray payload kar deta hai.

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## Arsalan 345

how it dropped payload inside our territory? this can't be true.


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## AMG_12

Zarvan said:


> No their fuel tanks


Could be real bombs, no one is on ground to ascertain the type of ordnance.


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## The Diplomat

Signalian said:


> Balakot is some what 50 Km aerial distance from LOC.
> 
> which bomb does IAF possess that has a range of 50 km roughly?


Not highly educated on the topic however BrahMos is their baby, 450km range.


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## YeBeWarned

I was at Balakot , almost 2 months ago .. its quite close to LoC , but thing is that i haven't seen much Air or Army activity over it , but one thing for sure that going on one spot ( my guide took me ) on top of it when i stand he pointed towards a range of mountains , saying those are Ind-Pak Border ranges .

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## The wheel of time

Alternatiiv said:


> You highly, highly underestimate F-16 just on the basis of the time of its initial production. The F-16 has undergone immense changes since that time, it is a very much capable aircraft. And the flankers don't have unmatched manoeuvrability, the F-16 was made for Dogfighting, *the SU-30MKI was not, although thrust vectoring helps, the F-16 still will dominate the dogfight.*
> 
> And even for BVR engagements, like I said, F-16 isn't the aircraft of 80s, it is just as capable as the SU-30MKI, it also has the ability to launch such missiles and can have a high range, it comes down to the mods used for the plane, as in the radars and stuff.
> 
> You go and tell any fighter enthusiast that F-16 is obsolete and stand zero chance against the likes of flankers, rafales and even mig 29's, and they will hit you right across you face with a hard slap.
> 
> The witness to the competitiveness of F-16s is the USAF itself, the Israeli Air Force, and the Greece Air Force.
> 
> The USAF to this date, uses F-16s, although phased out its procurement, as it moves onto the fifth generation fighters, the F-16 are still considered really valuable, being used highly in Middle East and Afghanistan.
> The Israeli Air Force, for virtually all its known air-based operations and raids, used the F-16, there were several right ups on this, with the Russians even getting mad at Israel at one point.
> The Greece Air Force has excelled with the F-16s in their KDR ratios, even scoring really well against F-35's in NATO exercises, they are renowned for their air force due to their good performance in NATO exercises.
> 
> You really showed your knowledge regarding Aircrafts by bringing up their initial production time into your argument, it's completely invalid in this case. Turkey, USAF, Greece, Israel, Pakistan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, and many more, aren't retards to dump a whole lot of their budgets for fleets of F-16, its success and upgradation, followed by competitiveness why its still being developed further; check latest procurement by Taiwan.



Oh comeon now, you are talking like a fool now. Perhaps you have no idea of what a flanker is, it will swat f16s like flies. only a foll with a death wish will take a f16 to fight off a flanker. And there is a difference between an enthusiast and a professional. Our air force has evaluated and have rejected the f16 as it does not provide any significant advantage over the existing aircraft of our arsenal.

And all the countries that you have mentioned are not as powerful militarily as India is, they can do with inferior the aircraft we cannot.


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## Signalian

Zarvan said:


> What does that mean


SFC is Strategic Forces Command.


----------



## Sharpshooter12

Zarvan said:


> No their fuel tanks


They would have mentioned fuel tanks, saying payload implies something else.

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## AMG_12

The wheel of time said:


> Oh comeon now, you are talking like a fool now. Perhaps you have no idea of what a flanker is, it will swat f16s like flies. only a foll with a death wish will take a f16 to fight off a flanker. And there is a difference between an enthusiast and a professional. Our air force has evaluated and have rejected the f16 as it does not provide any significant advantage over the existing aircraft of our arsenal.
> 
> And all the countries that you have mentioned are not as powerful militarily as India is, they can do with inferior the aircraft we cannot.


Please make a separate thread for dck measuring. Stop derailing the thread.

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## Maxpane

they drop pay load means bomb? and we did nothing


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## YeBeWarned

Jackdaws said:


> Actually I don't really watch Indian media except for some decent channels like WION. I think the Jaish thought it would be another attack which would result in single digit deaths. India is kind of immune to such constant attacks. They did not expect 40 +. Do Indians want war? Some do, some don't. Do they want some form of closure or retribution? Yes. It is only natural.



Jaish Leader has denied the attacks , there is no reason to doubt it , if IA has significant evidence they should provide to Pakistan, IK will be happy to deal with them , he is not very fond of religious extremism nor people who create hurdles in Pakistan's economic growth , look at TLP Khadim Rizvi as example .


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## Signalian

The Diplomat said:


> Not highly educated on the topic however BrahMos is their baby, 450km range.


Thats a CM, payload could mean guided or unguided ordnance

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## YeBeWarned

Signalian said:


> Thats a CM, payload could mean guided or unguided ordnance



does external fuel tanks comes under the payload category ?


----------



## AMG_12

Starlord said:


> Jaish Leader has denied the attacks , there is no reason to doubt it , if IA has significant evidence they should provide to Pakistan, IK will be happy to deal with them , he is not very fond of religious extremism nor people who create hurdles in Pakistan's economic growth , look at TLP Khadim Rizvi as example .


Please keep it specific to the border intrusion. Report those who're derailing the thread.

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## Republic

The Diplomat said:


> I'm just hoping history doesn't repeat itself, I would do anything to avoid a war. Pakistan & India need more trade between each other to reduce these situations, prime example being France & Germany. Thank you for your condolences.



My sincere condolences. But millions of other families have also lost their loved ones across Indo Pak, and most of them were very poor. This is a war, and wars have been always brutal specially when they are caused by maniacal obsession of religious bigotry.

I want our generation to close all doors on each other. Not even talk and meet at international forums. I even want to not teach our kids in school about other country and leave a blue space on the map.
And let our grand kids decided whether they would like to gel along or not.


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## Sharpshooter12

And it was aircraft*S *that released payload so yeah..


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## Arsalan 345

one twitter account saying they done air strikes in muzaffarabad.what the hell! if they did something then where is our response? i can't believe this.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The Jets were near BalaKot , and Terbela Water Dam is near by
Abbotabad was there as well


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## Inqlab-e-Pakistan




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## Falcon26

Republic said:


> My sincere condolences. But millions of other families have also lost their loved ones across Indo Pak, and most of them were very poor. This is a war, and wars have been always brutal specially when they are caused by maniacal obsession of religious bigotry.
> 
> I want our generation to close all doors on each other. Not even talk and meet at international forums. I even want to not teach our kids in school about other country and leave a blue space on the map.
> And let our grand kids decided whether they would like to gel along or not.



You can start by not frequenting Pakistani forums.

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## The Diplomat

Starlord said:


> does external fuel tanks comes under the payload category ?


I think so, it's connected to a hard point on an aircraft and therefor makes sense for it to be called a payload.


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## BRAVO_

questions is ...why the hack they were allowed to cross the LOC and to penetrate in to our airspace ??? they were suppose to shoot down right away ... anyways lets see what upcoming news will reveal

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## BHarwana

The Diplomat said:


> Pakistan fired an AAM?


What else could be the pay load. Pakistan fire a warning shot which made them turn back.


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## The Diplomat

BHarwana said:


> What else could be the pay load. Pakistan fire a warning shot which made them turn back.


Others are saying that Indians fired a payload and not Pakistan. DG ISPR's tweet is not clear. Check the posts from the thread.


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## Rafi

Something that could have had grave consequences has just occurred, a threat of an Indian first strike has been just given the all clear, 2nd strike was ready and able for confirmation.

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## YeBeWarned

The Diplomat said:


> I think so, it's connected to a hard point on an aircraft and therefor makes sense for it to be called a payload.



Balakot is a dense populated area , and has many small villages near by , it they dropped a bloody Payload on there , even if it doesn't kill or destroy anything its still an act of aggression and if PAF hasn't shot down these Planes than govt needs to act against the PAF and their incompetency .

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## Falcon26

Rafi said:


> Something that could have had grave consequences has just occurred, a threat of an Indian first strike has been just given the all clear, 2nd strike was ready and able for confirmation.



Nuclear first strike? Can you make your posts more legible for the layperson?

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## Signalian

Starlord said:


> does external fuel tanks comes under the payload category ?


yes

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## The Sandman

I think we should wait a bit more for details by our media and ISPR itself before assuming that they did a strike.

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## Falcon26

The Diplomat said:


> Others are saying that Indians fired a payload and not Pakistan. DG ISPR's tweet is not clear. Check the posts from the thread.


DG ISPR Tweet is VERY clear. You are just not understanding it.

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## Alpha BeeTee

Rafi said:


> Something that could have had grave consequences has just occurred, a threat of an Indian first strike has been just given the all clear, 2nd strike was ready and able for confirmation.


Your posts can be interpretted incorrectly and create unnecessary confusion.


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## AMG_12

Huge blast reported in Balakot (source,: Twitter) 
Aircrafts flying around in the area.


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## YeBeWarned

Signalian said:


> yes



I don't understand why PAF has not shot down the intruding enemy ? running by dropping the payload means that they were across the Balakot , means PAF let them comes inside pretty deep . I am feeling PAF was caught off guard .

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## BHarwana

The Diplomat said:


> Others are saying that Indians fired a payload and not Pakistan. DG ISPR's tweet is not clear. Check the posts from the thread.


Pakistan fired payload that is why they turned back.

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## Yaseen1

Ik said we will not think to respond but it seems we are taking long to think another uturn by ik

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## The Diplomat

Falcon26 said:


> DG ISPR Tweet is VERY clear. You are just not understanding it.


It might just be me, you're right however the confusion is the quoted OP says Pakistan fired an AAM (payload) and other posters are saying that the Indians fired a payload, so which is it?


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## Alpha BeeTee

Starlord said:


> I don't understand why PAF has not shot down the intruding enemy ? running by dropping the payload means that they were across the Balakot , means PAF let them comes inside pretty deep . I am feeling PAF was caught off guard .


Chances of PAF being caught offguard are little. But chances of PAF not being able to escalate are higher.

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## PurpleButcher

Balakot is 50 KM from LOC!

How do we define success? Can PAF intrude 50 KM inside IoK and be unharmed? Did the plane intrude 50 KM or the payload reached balakot after flying some good 40+ km while the plane returned from just the buffer zone?

And if this is a success by PAF, then are all the places within 50 KM from the border, at the mercy of IAF? If we can't shoot them being afraid of the debris falling on the indian side, what is the SOP to protect ? What if the "payload" had fallen on a school, or a hospital or madrassah or army camp? 

They came , they dropped a payload(though maybe not at the desired target), flew back unharmed! How is this a success for PAF?

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## YeBeWarned

heard 2nd Fighter jet over Gulshan Area in Karachi .


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## Falcon26

The Diplomat said:


> It might just be me, you're right however the confusion is the quoted OP says Pakistan fired an AAM (payload) and other posters are saying that the Indians fired a payload, so which is it?



The Indians released their payload and escaped according to the DG ISPR. I am not sure why people are confused something so simple.

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## AMG_12

The Diplomat said:


> It might just be me, you're right however the confusion is the quoted OP says Pakistan fired an AAM (payload) and other posters are saying that the Indians fired a payload, so which is it?


The OP who says it was an AAM is just spreading misinformation. ISPR clearly states it was the Indian jets that hurriedly dropped it's payload implying they were destined for a deep strike mission.

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## Arsalan 345

Inqlab-e-Pakistan said:


>



sep 22,2017 video.don't share fake news.


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## Mrc

This needs to be responded and needs to be done now


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## Signalian

BHarwana said:


> Pakistan fired payload that is why they turned back.


My guess from the tweet is that IAF has attacked and yes an attack has taken place.

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## untitled

DGISPR needs to find and display the IAF's jettisoned payload ASAP


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## Fieldmarshal

Balakot is not loc or even part of Kashmir, its in kpk...be it on the border between azad kashmir n kpk

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## Falcon26

PurpleButcher said:


> Balakot is 50 KM from LOC!
> 
> How do we define success? Can PAF intrude 50 KM inside IoK and be unharmed? Did the plane intrude 50 KM or the payload reached balakot after flying some good 40+ km while the plane returned from just the buffer zone?
> 
> And if this is a success by PAF, then are all the places within 50 KM from the border, at the mercy of IAF? If we can't shoot them being afraid of the debris falling on the indian side, what is the SOP to protect ? What if the "payload" had fallen on a school, or a hospital or madrassah or army camp?
> 
> They came , they dropped a payload(though maybe not at the desired target), flew back unharmed! How is this a success for PAF?



This is basically it. It looks horrible from PAF perspective. IAF jets crossed deep into Pakistan and went back untouched.

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## YeBeWarned

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Chances of PAF being caught offguard are little. But chances of PAF not being able to escalate are higher.



That would have been stupid of them, they did got caught Off guard, cause if they were awake, than how come IAF cross to the point where they turned and drop tanks in Balakot, implying they were somewhere ahead of Balakot, where were our Radar's ? why weren't they detect those fighters ? ?? ? ?? ?


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## Path-Finder

Falcon26 said:


> The Indians released their payload and escaped according to the DG ISPR. I am not sure why people are confused something so simple.


people are making mockery of themselves and creating more confusion by second guessing. silliness has no limits.

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## BHarwana

The Diplomat said:


> Others are saying that Indians fired a payload and not Pakistan. DG ISPR's tweet is not clear. Check the posts from the thread.


Pakistani jet made a hasty shot. The pilot got eager gave time to IAF to return. He wanted to claim the kill.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100211566924959745

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## Arsalan 345

Indian Air Force EMB-145 AEW airborne early warning asset, is currently operating near the #India/#Pakistan border at FL310.


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## Alpha BeeTee

Signalian said:


> My guess from the tweet is that IAF has attacked and yes an attack has taken place.


They might have done enough to claim another surgical strike.

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## untitled

Signalian said:


> My guess from the tweet is that IAF has attacked


With stand off weapons?


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## Alpha BeeTee

Starlord said:


> That would have been stupid of them, they did got caught Off guard, cause if they were awake, than how come IAF cross to the point where they turned and drop tanks in Balakot, implying they were somewhere ahead of Balakot, where were our Radar's ? why weren't they detect those fighters ? ?? ? ?? ?


Detection is not an issue. What to do after that, is.


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## The Diplomat

BHarwana said:


> Pakistani jet made a hasty shot. The pilot got eager gave time to IAF to return. He wanted to claim the kill.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100211566924959745


Thank you, that clears things up.

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## AMG_12

I feel like they did strike a target, civilian or military, in the sector.


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## Signalian

BHarwana said:


> Pakistani jet made a hasty shot. The pilot got eager gave time to IAF to return. He wanted to claim the kill.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100211566924959745


It could be both ways. will have to wait and see


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## Riz

Releasing their payload while running back in haste mean one of our interceptor able to lock onto it????


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## Republic

Falcon26 said:


> You can start by not frequenting Pakistani forums.



I will be first person to even look at the west. Let the governments take a decision. AFAIK Modi and Niazi are still doing business via Wagha and Atari. Shaurya Dobhal and Saiyad Hasan are business partners and so are Jindal and Sharifs. I just come here to observe how poorly educated, highly immature common public is ejaculating fire on each other while big baniyas of both sides are having a laugh.


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## YeBeWarned

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Detection is not an issue. What to do after that, is.



they were not able to detect it hence the intruders came so deep, that upon returning they drop the payload ( Fuel Tank or Ammunition ) but , letting it go either by mistake or deliberately is a huge mistake, and show of weakness and incompetency from PAF part .

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## Arsalan 345

if they strike something then what are we waiting for? where is our response?

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## untitled

BHarwana said:


> Pakistani jet made a hasty shot


The tweet does not say anything about the PAF jet firing. Why would a fighter "release" its payload rather than "fire" it? And why would a PAF aircraft want to escape?

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Indian Jets did not fly for long in Pakistan they used a very thin strip a narrow point along AzadKashmir

It is a typical Indian drama , when they say they want to talk peace normally it means an attack and they will then go do randi rona in OIC


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## Alpha BeeTee

BHarwana said:


> Pakistani jet made a hasty shot. The pilot got eager gave time to IAF to return. He wanted to claim the kill.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100211566924959745


 Payload was released 'while' escaping. PAF couldnt have been escaping. That's how I understand this untill ISPR clears further.

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## Signalian

member.exe said:


> With stand off weapons?


Im not updated on IAF inventory


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## Sharpshooter12

Falcon26 said:


> DG ISPR Tweet is VERY clear. You are just not understanding it.


of course it is clear, he's not going to explicitly say they bombed Balakot and then made it across LOC now would he.


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## BHarwana

Signalian said:


> It could be both ways. will have to wait and see


What I have heard that pilot fired the missile and locked later. A manuver used to avoid missile detection but he locked back a bit late and missile was unable to intercept.


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## The Sandman

So Balakot is actually in KPK... So they managed to penetrate so deep and what the hell was PAF thinking? Why they didn't shot it down? Who knows they may have penetrated even deeper... this is shameful tbh.

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## Riz

Rafi said:


> They were probing multiple sectors, coming from different angles, even tried from the sea, but having space based Intel, and AWACS flying round the clock, they are exhausting themselves.


And how will be our respond can you please hint ??


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## The Diplomat

member.exe said:


> The tweet does not say anything about the PAF firing. Why would a fighter release its payload rather than fire it? And why would a PAF aircraft want to escape?


Trying to catch up and not escape, probably dropped a drop tank to allow less weight, effectively allowing greater speed. ADA aircraft are pre-loaded and the aircraft in use was probably loaded with a drop-tank before this event.

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## AMG_12

Riz said:


> Releasing their payload while running back in haste mean one of our interceptor able to lock onto it????


Or ISPR is just spicing things up after IAF did strike something in our territory.

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## Basel

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.



Yeah, that may be their narrative.


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## The Sandman

Arsalan 345 said:


> where is our response?


Condemnations...

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## PurpleButcher

DG ISPR, Please use commas in your tweets!

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## YeBeWarned

Pakistan needs to to do a counter strikes , or else they will become a source of Mockery and memes ..

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## BHarwana

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Payload was released 'while' escaping. PAF couldnt have been escaping. That's how I understand this untill ISPR clears further.


Interceptors have aam payload and it means aam fired.


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## Arsalan 345

look at the movement.

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## Cookie Monster

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.


Hum apnay ground radars ko khotay se baandh k ghumatay hain kya?





It's 2019...for the most part all assets like fighter jets/AWACS/ground radars paint a combined realtime picture of Pakistan's airspace. Learn something before uttering nonsense.

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## untitled

The Diplomat said:


> Trying to catch up and not escape


I believe the tweet is about IAF jets "releasing" their loads in a haste


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## Arsalan 345

BHarwana said:


> Interceptors have aam payload and it means aam fired.



i agree.dropping payload means running away from missile.it means missile is fired.they do it just to run away from strike range of missile.it means missile was fired from a long distance.


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## Alpha BeeTee

ISPR wouldn't have broken news if IAF did indeed hit Balakot. This would have confirmed the narrative which the Indian media would want to stir up. I think ISPR intented that PAF dropped a payload in haste. But in haste itself, the ISPR forgot proper use of commas in the tweet and ended up giving the impression that IAF dropped payload.


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## AMG_12

Twitter Indians already claiming Balakot has Jaish training facility


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## BHarwana




----------



## thunderr

Whhooww man jets hovering around like mad dogs.Hindus don't dare to come or say buuuhbye to Merah Bahrat Mahan! Jets were buzzing around 4 am in deira ismail khan please hunt few rats


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## BHarwana




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## YeBeWarned

where the FUQ is our AWAC's ..

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## Arsalan 345

BHarwana said:


> View attachment 541805



looks like they are expecting retaliation.


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## BHarwana

IAF is chicken. Ran like dog with tail between legs


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## The Diplomat

Starlord said:


> where the FUQ is our AWAC's ..


Flying, according to Rafi.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Dawn is breaking 7:38 so it is fairly over , cowardly strikes are done in depth of darkness
Pakistan needs to read Indians

Modi needed a story in morning to rally up his voters

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## untitled

member.exe said:


> DG ISPR needs to find and display the IAF's jettisoned payload ASAP



Needs to be done ASAP for our propaganda purposes


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## Alpha BeeTee

Perhaps IAF has already done the job.
Enter Pak, drop a bomb, run back and claim strike.
Rest is up to Indian media. Mamu banao puri qaum ko aur election jitao Modi ko.

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## enquencher

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Dawn is breaking 7:38 so it is fairly over , cowardly strikes are done in depth of darkness


And your airforce n ground radars were sleeping as always..shame iaf could enter so deep..

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## Mrc

Paf jet needs to relase its payload on an indian border post


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## enquencher

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Perhaps IAF has already done the job.
> Enter Pak, drop a bomb, run back and claim strike.
> Rest is up to Indian media. Mamu banao puri qaum ko aur election jitao Modi ko.


Iaf enetered..now show ur response

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## Surenas

Seems like India has just outplayed Pakistan and firmly demonstrated its aerial capabilities.

To fly into Pakistani air space and conduct an air strike relatively far from the IoC, even if the intended target did not contain any military value, India has just given its first retaliation and warning shot to Pakistan: we can fly into your air space at will and can attack any desired target at the (possible) front lines.

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## The Diplomat

enquencher said:


> And your airforce n ground radars were sleeping as always..shame iaf could enter so deep..


Nothing is clear yet, don't celebrate too early.


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## Alpha BeeTee

enquencher said:


> Iaf enetered..now show ur response


IAF ran away. Enter ho kay samosay nahi tal rahi Pakistan men.


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## Taha Samad

Its not clear, there is Balakot in J&K as well. So not sure if this is Balakot, KPK(which is good 50-60 KMs from LOC) or the one near LOC.


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## BRAVO_

guys incident has already happened and to avoid any escalations i am not expecting any counter PAF response, in few minutes we will hear condemnation from our officials, BJP will portrait it as a indian victory to win the election and thats it

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## Alpha BeeTee

Mrc said:


> Paf jet needs to relase its payload on an indian border post


Wont.


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## enquencher

Alpha BeeTee said:


> IAF ran away. Enter ho kay samosay nahi tal rahi Pakistan men.


Joker u tell paf to enter n show..dnt make foolish staements


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Early Morning Ops inside Pakistan , around 3:00 am almost like a 30-40 second fly into Pakistani zone and then back in and run







https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-pilot-dead/story-RQlSawrhv8xypTofCjriUI.html

In other news 2 Indian Pilots died while flying Mirage 2000


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## Arsalan 345

Surenas said:


> Seems like India has just outplayed Pakistan and firmly demonstrated its aerial capabilities.
> 
> To fly into Pakistani air space and conduct an air strike relatively far from the IoC, even if the intended target did not contain any military value, India has just given its first retaliation and warning shot to Pakistan: we can fly into your air space at will and can attack any desired target at the (possible) front lines.



story is not clear right now.kindly wait for details.


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## BHarwana

IAF are chicken. Showing their back and running away lol.


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## enquencher

BRAVO_ said:


> guys incident has already happened and to avoid any escalations i am not expecting any counter PAF response, in few minutes we will hear condemnation from our officials, BJP will portrait it as a indian victory to win the election and thats it


Dnt wori more is coming..keep ur jets in bunkers to prevent escalation


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## Alpha BeeTee

enquencher said:


> Joker u tell paf to enter n show..dnt make foolish staements


Dont derail the thread. Come to me chest thumping when IAF is able to survive more than a minute and half in Pakistani airspace.


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## enquencher

BHarwana said:


> IAF are chicken. Showing their back and running away lol.


N u were sleeping till jets went deep inside.


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## Jackdaws

If strikes happened, Modi just clinched the election.

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## Death Adder

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Perhaps IAF has already done the job.
> Enter Pak, drop a bomb, run back and claim strike.
> Rest is up to Indian media. Mamu banao puri qaum ko aur election jitao Modi ko.



Apna be yehi haal ha bai DG ISPR ab sb ko mamu he bnaye ga.


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## enquencher

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Dont derail the thread. Come to me chest thumping when IAF is able to survive more than a minute and half in Pakistani airspace.


Come here n blabber when paf crosses over to indian side

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## The Diplomat

enquencher said:


> Dnt wori more is coming..keep ur jets in bunkers to prevent escalation


Why run back so fast? Can't face the PAF head on head? IAF was in Pak for no more than 40 seconds, don't act up.

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## Rafi

enquencher said:


> Come here n blabber when paf crosses over to indian side



OK mera puttaar, so ja.

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## Surenas

Alpha BeeTee said:


> IAF ran away. Enter ho kay samosay nahi tal rahi Pakistan men.



Fighter jets do not run away. They conduct their mission and go back to their bases. In case of this incident, as far as we know, Indian fighter jets crossed into Pakistani air space, dropped their bombs on Pakistani soil and safely returned to their bases. That is what one defines as a succes. You act like they wanted to indefinitely stay in Pakistani air space.

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## YeBeWarned

Jackdaws said:


> If strikes happened, Modi just clinched the election.



Agreed

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## Arsalan 345

enquencher said:


> N u were sleeping till jets went deep inside.



kindly wait for updates.show isn't over yet my friend.


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## Falcon26

Unless PAF shows actual locks on IAF jets, the Indians will milk this till kingdom come. At the end of the day, the Indians crossed the Pakistani borders, “released a payload” according to ISPR and left unscathed. It looks horrible for PAF & Pakistan but I am expecting a flood of excuses from
the Pakistani side.

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## Alpha BeeTee

Arsalan 345 said:


> kindly wait for updates.show isn't over yet my friend.


I think it might be over with Modi as the victor and Congress as the looser.


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## Riz

BHarwana said:


> IAF is chicken. Ran like dog with tail between legs


They dropped payload in 45km inside our territory, while running back.. It means they panitrated 70 to 80 km inside Pakistan, I think they reached abotabad successfully . WTF where were PAF... And i dont believe that they run back without hitting any thing....kia mithai khany ay they woh?

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## Basel

How some people responded.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100216249341132801


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Falcon26 said:


> Unless PAF shows actual locks on IAF jets, the Indians will milk this till kingdom come. At the end of the day, the Indians crossed the Pakistani borders, “released a payload” according to ISPR and left unscathed. It looks horrible for PAF & Pakistan but I am expecting a flood of excuses from
> the Pakistani side.



We don't need excuses , for every battle their is a time and moment
PAF is not business of haste

Ammunition was dropped over a uninhabited mountain does not means PAF will lose our marbles and fly into Enemy Trap which is already awaiting

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## HalfMoon

Taha Samad said:


> Its not clear, there is Balakot in J&K as well. So not sure if this is Balakot, KPK(which is good 50-60 KMs from LOC) or the one near LOC.



Kh-59 has a range of 200 KM.


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## BHarwana

enquencher said:


> N u were sleeping till jets went deep inside.


Who said jets went deep inside our aam dropped near balakot. IAF tried to enter from Muzaffarabad sector. Which Pakistani CAP was already in air. IAF is chicken.


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## Basel

Riz said:


> They dropped payload in 45km inside our territory, while running back.. It means they panitrated 70 to 80 km inside Pakistan, I think they reached abotabad successfully . WTF where were PAF... And i dont believe that they run back without hitting any thing....kia mithai khany ay they woh?



That is serious, why SAMs didn't respond? Also why fighter jets were not on CAP?

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## BHarwana

HalfMoon said:


> Kh-59 has a range of 200 KM.


So why you crossed loc then?

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## YeBeWarned

PAF just screwed up .. I wont be accepting those usual Statements from PAF " hum Pakistan ki fizai sarhadoon ki hifazat kerna jaante hai "

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## Alpha BeeTee

Surenas said:


> Fighter jets do not run away. They conduct their mission and go back to their bases. In case of this incident, as far as we know, Indian fighter jets crossed into Pakistani air space, dropped their bombs on Pakistani soil and safely returned to their bases. That is what one defines as a succes. You act like they wanted to indefinitely stay in Pakistani air space.


Dont chest thump as of yet. You think PAF cant cross the border and return back safely within a minute? Even BAF can enter somewhere in India, drop the payload and return.


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## Mrc

Pak needs to hit back . This is not acceptable

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## BHarwana

Riz said:


> They dropped payload in 45km inside our territory, while running back.. It means they panitrated 70 to 80 km inside Pakistan, I think they reached abotabad successfully . WTF where were PAF... And i dont believe that they run back without hitting any thing....kia mithai khany ay they woh?



Do you know how to read english? Hasty payload drop by PAF not IAF.


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## Surenas

"Just for reference, I believe the last time the Indian Air Force intentionally and publicly crossed the LoC to conduct strikes was... the 1971 war."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100224585499373568


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## Arsalan 345

i can't believe that they actually released payload near balakot.how they came inside our airspace so easily? this is not cool.


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## HalfMoon

BHarwana said:


> So why you crossed loc then?



That's debatable but what is clear is that the payload crossed AJK and hit Balakot in KPK.


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## Crixus

Please dont ruin the fun ......................... 


enquencher said:


> N u were sleeping till jets went deep inside.


----------



## Ryuzaki

Rumours of 2 JF-17's shot down


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## YeBeWarned

What is happening on ground ? any reports of cross border raids ? 
still i see no AWACS in Air ..  PAF ki beti ke jeehez mai do gay kia ?


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## Jackdaws

BHarwana said:


> Do you know how to read english? Hasty payload drop by PAF not IAF.


It's in English. Read it again.

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## The Diplomat

Ryuzaki said:


> Rumours of 2 JF-17's shot down


Source?


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## Surenas

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Dont chest thump as of yet. You think PAF cant cross the border and return back safely within a minute? Even BAF can enter somewhere in India, drop the payload and return.



No, you can't and you won't.

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## airmarshal

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.



My question is why would they want to intrude when they can easily use stand off weapons fired deep inside Indian airspace. 

The only reason to come close to LoC would be to test adversary's response and calibrate IAF's approach and targeting. 

I give credence to this new only because DG-ISPR tweeted about it.


----------



## The Diplomat

Starlord said:


> What is happening on ground ? any reports of cross border raids ?
> still i see no AWACS in Air ..  PAF ki beti ke jeehez mai do gay kia ?


Maybe the transponders are off, they are probably in the air.


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Yar morning hai people are drinking tea in Pakistan
They are enticing us to react becasue their AWACs and SAMs are ready for retaliation

They used the element of Suprise on their side


----------



## Jackdaws

Starlord said:


> What is happening on ground ? any reports of cross border raids ?
> still i see no AWACS in Air ..  PAF ki beti ke jeehez mai do gay kia ?


Indian media is saying it is multi pronged attack.

Anyways, I hope no innocent lives have been lost.


----------



## maithil

Payload was not tamatar, was it ?

Seriously if IAF jets bombed Balakot while turning back, it means they went further. Most probably JeM's facilities in Balakot were targeted. PAF screwed up big time. Acknowledgements by ISPR itself says a lot.

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## untitled

Ryuzaki said:


> Rumours of 2 JF-17's shot down


Source of these "rumors"?


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## Alpha BeeTee

Ryuzaki said:


> Rumours of 2 JF-17's shot down


Rumours of 3 Su 30s shot down. They fell near my garden.

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## Arsalan 345

Starlord said:


> What is happening on ground ? any reports of cross border raids ?
> still i see no AWACS in Air ..  PAF ki beti ke jeehez mai do gay kia ?



f-16s performing barcap near abbotabad.


----------



## blain2

Falcon26 said:


> Unless PAF shows actual locks on IAF jets, the Indians will milk this till kingdom come. At the end of the day, the Indians crossed the Pakistani borders, “released a payload” according to ISPR and left unscathed. It looks horrible for PAF & Pakistan but I am expecting a flood of excuses from
> the Pakistani side.


If there is no material damage on the Pakistani side, it matters not. To Pakistan, this would be another inconsequential exercise in the same league as the last surgical strike claimed by India.

Crossing over the LoC/IB is a fairly easy task. Each year, both countries have multiple such cases so I am not sure why this would be so horrible for the PAF.

If Indian aircraft have crossed over and hit something of significance, Pakistan's response won't be just trying to stop them from coming over. There will be payload heading in the other direction as well.

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## Maxpane

we gave them a new excuse. now ready for media humiliation . Indian fazaiya ne dushman k ghar ghus k bomb giraye.


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

Jets flying over Rawalpindi now.


----------



## Sharpshooter12

Attempts, hmm 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100218450922766336

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## Surenas

"Indian MoD and IAF to make statement shortly on @OfficialDGISPR’s claim that India may have conducted air strikes in Azad Kashmir."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100223867732328448

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## Foxtrot Delta

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I think they are testing to see if our SAM are active or they are turned off
> Plus trying to calculate our response



PAF's primary Defence is not Surface to air missiles. it is air to air combat . always has been. we are not russia or india.


----------



## untitled

Alpha BeeTee said:


> They fell near my garden


Throw Indian tomatoes at the 6 pilots until they surrender


----------



## Jackdaws

Mirage 2000s struck a terror camp and destroyed it. 3.30 am. Indian Air Force sources.


----------



## maithil

Ryuzaki said:


> Rumours of 2 JF-17's shot down



Quite possible. Need confirmation though. Only F-16 can withstand IAF onslaught for some time. Wonder how many are serviceable.


----------



## Arsalan 345

mirage 2000 of iaf hit something.laser guided 1000 kg.


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## Foxtrot Delta

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.



that's true most of those videos are usually Bull Sh.it. never trust those videos only DG ISPR and Pakistan armred forces.


----------



## Imad.Khan

BHarwana said:


> Do you know how to read english? Hasty payload drop by PAF not IAF.



Sorry Bhai but in this case you are wrong. 

"Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot" 

Why would PAF drop payload and why would PAF escape?

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## Ryuzaki

Strike by Mirage 2000, 1000kg bombs dropped


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100227776618131457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100228529952866304


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## A.M.

Well, isn't this embarrassing for PAF.

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## Jackdaws



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## YeBeWarned

Jackdaws said:


> Indian media is saying it is multi pronged attack.
> 
> Anyways, I hope no innocent lives have been lost.



so far no reports of ground incursions , only this conflicting reports of IAF jets crossing over and dropping something on Balakot .. Man i have been to balakot , and planned to go there soon again with my Wife, if the dropped hit any village it would cause many civilian causalities


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## BHarwana

HalfMoon said:


> That's debatable but what is clear is that the payload crossed AJK and hit Balakot in KPK.



Whoes payload? That is debateable and hit what? Is also debateable and IAF chickened out is also debateable. So too much debate here and still no statement from IAF says every thing. Which means Pakistan has the upper hand in the incident as PAF released statement. Still F-16s over Muzaffarabad.


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## Crixus

As per NDTV


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## untitled

A.M. said:


> Well, isn't this embarrassing for PAF.


Well I think it is about time PAF to released the HUD shots from 2008


----------



## Surenas

India has just called Pakistan's bluff of immediate retaliation and has acknowledged staging an attack on Pakistani soil.

Let's see if Pakistan will react.

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## Riz

Starlord said:


> PAF just screwed up .. I wont be accepting those usual Statements from PAF " hum Pakistan ki fizai sarhadoon ki hifazat kerna jaante hai "


Look at the tweet from DGSPR... Lol dont fool us gentlemen, this was not violation of LoC but it was an attack on Pakistan... Now hit them back if you guys have any shame or accept your defeat... We are not going to buy these lame excuses from u guys anymore..


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## Cookie Monster

enquencher said:


> Iaf enetered..now show ur response


That was the response...IAF entered, PAF responded with interceptors...IAF turned tail and ran.

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## Jackdaws

Starlord said:


> so far no reports of ground incursions , only this conflicting reports of IAF jets crossing over and dropping something on Balakot .. Man i have been to balakot , and planned to go there soon again with my Wife, if the dropped hit any village it would cause many civilian causalities


That would be terrible is civilian lives are lost.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

We will have to wait and see official Pakistani Government Summary
For time being the news is , Indian Jets accidently got lost entered Pakistan

We sent in Interceptors, the Indian Pilots Panicked did not engaged in dog fight and bombs fell on some mountain below

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## Arsalan 345

fire raad alcm.counter it.


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## Maxpane

total embarrassment for paf.

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## BHarwana

Roumers say Indian jet crashed in Indian territory can any Indian friend confirm?


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## Surenas

Quite daring and adventurous of the Indian Air Force, to say the least. Modi is not fucking around.


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## Cookie Monster

Surenas said:


> India has just called Pakistan's bluff of immediate retaliation and has acknowledged staging an attack on Pakistani soil.
> 
> Let's see if Pakistan will react.


If India had realized that they can attack Pakistani cities and not face a response...then they wouldn't just turn tail and run...they would in fact send in more jets to carry out bombings. Clearly they ran and didn't come back. So now stop chest thumping and be embarrassed of ur bhagora pilots.

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## blain2

Riz said:


> Look at the tweet from DGSPR... Lol dont fool us gentlemen, this was not violation of LoC but it was an attack on Pakistan... Now hit them back if you guys have any shame or accept your defeat... We are not going to buy these lame excuses from u guys anymore..


Can you calm down?

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## HalfMoon

BHarwana said:


> Whoes payload? That is debateable and hit what? Is also debateable and IAF chickened out is also debateable. So too much debate here and still no statement from IAF says every thing. Which means Pakistan has the upper hand in the incident as PAF released statement. Still F-16s over Muzaffarabad.



Pakistanis can fully deny this incident. It makes no difference to us. In fact keep denying that IAF even conducted anything. That will favor us like in the case of Kargil.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Jackdaws said:


> They dropped a payload?


Shat their pants in other words

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## Mrc

Balakot is in range of pak.media.... We will have updates soon


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## Rollno21

12 Mirage 2000 ,it was


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## Riz

BHarwana said:


> Do you know how to read english? Hasty payload drop by PAF not IAF.


Dimag ka ilaaj karwao apna.. Read again.. U want to say paf drops load hastly while escaping ? Where PAF were escaping???

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## Jackdaws

Planes took off from Gwalior. Was fueled mid air. Laser guided ammunition used.

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## Falcon26

Riz said:


> Dimag ka ilaaj karwao apna.. Read again.. U want to say paf drops load hastly while escaping ? Where PAF were escaping???



Don’t mind him. He has managed to confuse himself and few others.

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## Surenas

Cookie Monster said:


> If India had realized that they can attack Pakistani cities and not face a response...then they wouldn't just turn tail and run...they would in fact send in more jets to carry out bombings. Clearly they ran and didn't come back. So now stop chest thumping and be embarrassed of ur bhagora pilots.



You seem to have a childish and fanboyish view of the event. They crossed your air space and attacked targets on your soil. They even managed to do that while returning all their jets safely to their bases. 

Now tell me which party has really been embarrassed?

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## YeBeWarned

__
https://flic.kr/p/45980274374

@Jackdaws and others, this is Balakot outskirts ..

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## The Diplomat

@Rafi could you update us on weather the IAF successfully striked a target or not?


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## enquencher

Mirage were used...


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## HalfMoon




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## Jackdaws

[QUOTE="Starlord said:


> __
> https://flic.kr/p/45980274374
> 
> @Jackdaws and others, this is Balakot outskirts ..


Looks pretty. Again, I hope no civilian lives were lost. They are saying precision guided bombs were used.

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## zeeshe100

indian news channels keh rahay hain kar deia hamla Pakistan main 3:30 per or terrorist thekanay taba kar deye


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## Crixus

India is lying like they lied about surgical strikes dont worry


Starlord said:


> __
> https://flic.kr/p/45980274374
> 
> @Jackdaws and others, this is Balakot outskirts ..


----------



## Surenas

According to this source:

Indian Air Force used Mirage jets, dropped laser-guided bombs on Pakistani target and involved mid-air refuelling and drones as well.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100229634162085888


----------



## enquencher

Riz said:


> They dropped payload in 45km inside our territory, while running back.. It means they panitrated 70 to 80 km inside Pakistan, I think they reached abotabad successfully . WTF where were PAF... And i dont believe that they run back without hitting any thing....kia mithai khany ay they woh?


Confirmed form sources..target were jaish camps..and yes camps were hit n flatenned


----------



## MastanKhan

Hi,

So technically and tactically " The Surgical Strike " has been completed---enemy destroyed---all bombs hit target---no aircraft damaged---all aircraft returned home safely---.

Now---Pakistani boys & Girls---challenge that---.

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## Rafi

The Diplomat said:


> @Rafi could you update us on weather the IAF successfully striked a target or not?



No targets were hit. Seems like this was purely for domestic consumption.

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## HalfMoon

12 IAF Mirage 2000s were involved in this attack.


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## Crixus

India is lying like they did in past example surgical strikes ..... how can IAF match the man behind F-16s


Jackdaws said:


> Looks pretty. Again, I hope no civilian lives were lost. They are saying precision guided bombs were used.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Jackdaws said:


> Looks pretty. Again, I hope no civilian lives were lost. They are saying precision guided bombs were used.



there are chances that none of the house or compounds were destroyed, cause the distance between them are quite much , but on the left corner of the picture is the Balakot main Market .. which is very densly populated ..


----------



## JamD

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728


----------



## Novice09

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377



Second tweet is very attractive, interesting and funny...

Releases payload in haste while escaping....

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## Falcon26

blain2 said:


> If there is no material damage on the Pakistani side, it matters not. To Pakistan, this would be another inconsequential exercise in the same league as the last surgical strike claimed by India.
> 
> Crossing over the LoC/IB is a fairly easy task. Each year, both countries have multiple such cases so I am not sure why this would be so horrible for the PAF.
> 
> If Indian aircraft have crossed over and hit something of significance, Pakistan's response won't be just trying to stop them from coming over. There will be payload heading in the other direction as well.



I call BS on this.

The issue here is that the Indians successfully penetrated relatively deep into Pakistan and went back home unscathed. Even if we were to accept the ridiculous assertion that the “Indians turned tail” it doesn’t excuse the fact that PAF’s bluff was called. Try going that deep into India and see if it’s not a big deal. You are a senior member. Don’t confuse other members with such weak arguments

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## YeBeWarned

Crixus said:


> India is lying like they lied about surgical strikes dont worry



ISPR confirmed the incursion .. so there is no denying it .


----------



## Basel

Starlord said:


> PAF just screwed up .. I wont be accepting those usual Statements from PAF " hum Pakistan ki fizai sarhadoon ki hifazat kerna jaante hai "



It raised many questions which should be answered by Pakistani military. It is stupid to assume that IAF release it's PGMs in hurry, also why these aircrafts we're not picked up by our radars / AWACS while they came close to LOC?

If they came over Balakot then it's failure of Pakistani military as they are already deployed.



Falcon26 said:


> I call BS on this.
> 
> The issue here is that the Indians successfully penetrated relatively deep into Pakistan and went back home unscathed. Even if we were to accept the ridiculous assertion that the “Indians turned tail” it doesn’t excuse the fact that PAF’s bluff was called. Try going that deep into India and see if it’s not a big deal. You are a senior member. Don’t confuse other members with such weak arguments



Agreed.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

3 Am Indian plane flew in at a narrow zone in Azad kashmir , a 2-5 minute flight over the narrow zone , and it was partially over KPK and by that time Pakistani Fighter Jets had arrived on scene

The Narrow corridor of Azad Kashmir which they flew over was mostly Uninhabited rugged mountain terrain 

Seeing PAF planes, The Brave Indian Jets , turned around , released their payload in order to gain more speed and made a run for cover

Indian planes remained 95% time in their own zone and only for may be 2-5 minutes were in Pakistani zone which is why PAF intercepted them

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## The Diplomat

Rafi said:


> No targets were hit. Seems like this was purely for domestic consumption.


@BHarwana As far as Pakistan is concerned there are no reports on this issue, only Indian propaganda of an attack.


----------



## Rollno21

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> So technically and tactically " The Surgical Strike " has been completed---enemy destroyed---all bombs hit target---no aircraft damaged---all aircraft returned home safely---.
> 
> Now---Pakistani boys & Girls---challenge that---.


Boys and girls Response ,did not happen

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## Alpha BeeTee

Rafi said:


> No targets were hit. Seems like this was purely for domestic consumption.


Considering that the Indian media will do what it does, wasnt it a blunder on ISPR's part to admit that IAF entered? Indians will use ISPR's admission and cook up the rest.


----------



## valkyr_96

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728


----------



## The Diplomat

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728
So much for a stike within Pakistan, ahhahahahahahahhahahah.

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## HalfMoon

1000 Pound bombs were used by 12 IAF Mirage 2000 fighters to destroy the entire Jaish training camp. Strike was 100% successful.


----------



## Surenas

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> The Brave Indian Jets , turned around , released their payload in order to gain more speed and made a run for cover
> View attachment 541816



Anyone believing this Pakistani version must be either deranged or a naive child. Probably the most ridiculous explaining and excuse I've ever heard.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Basel said:


> It raised many questions which should be answered by Pakistani military. It is stupid to assume that IAF release it's PGMs in hurry, also why these aircrafts we're not picked up by our radars / AWACS while they came close to LOC?
> 
> If they came over Balakot then it's failure of Pakistani military as they are already deployed.



hasty decisions are understandable from a paniced IAF pilot but if he drops the payload means it was right in the sight of PAF interceptor , in such case Pilot has no idea where the enemy dropped the bombs and how many civilians or Army personnel die, his mission is to destroy the enemy . even if it means enter the enemy territory , PAF has made a blunder and I will call them for this unless they come up with more updates .


----------



## Imad.Khan

Starlord said:


> so far no reports of ground incursions , only this conflicting reports of IAF jets crossing over and dropping something on Balakot .. Man i have been to balakot , and planned to go there soon again with my Wife, if the dropped hit any village it would cause many civilian causalities



I have been there too, Balakot is an amazing tourist spot.


----------



## Maxpane

they came in balakot drop bomb and went back. kahan hain wo pilots jo kehty the hum tayar hain ?????????????


----------



## Jackdaws

Sounds like Pak will be baying for blood now?


----------



## The Sandman

MastanKhan said:


> So technically and tactically " The Surgical Strike " has been completed---enemy destroyed---all bombs hit target---no aircraft damaged---all aircraft returned home safely---.


Damage control is gonna be really serious this time...

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## Crixus

Perfect face saver ...


valkyr_96 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728


----------



## blain2

Falcon26 said:


> I call BS on this.
> 
> The issue here is that the Indians successfully penetrated relatively deep into Pakistan and went back home unscathed. Even if we were to accept the ridiculous assertion that the “Indians turned tail” it doesn’t excuse the fact that PAF’s bluff was called. Try going that deep into India and see if it’s not a big deal. You are a senior member. Don’t confuse other members with such weak arguments


Lets wait and see. I don't care much for instant gratification that most members here are looking for. There is a plan and strategy in play. We will see it get played out.

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100230047481376768


----------



## Cookie Monster

Surenas said:


> You seem to have a childish and fanboyish view of the event. They crossed your air space and attacked targets on your soil. They even managed to do that while returning all their jets safely to their bases.
> 
> Now tell me which party has really been embarrassed?


im childish/fanboyish? Ok smarty pants tell me where it claims targets destroyed? Or did u just pull that out of ur rear end where sun don't shine?

If u r having trouble understanding I will repeat it for u slooowwwly.
Theeeyyy HASTILY droooppped their paayyloooad.

Now that still might not be enough for ur pea brain. Do u know when a fighter jet hastily drops their payload? When they need to get out fast...either running away from chasing enemy fighters or trying to eascape from a BVR missile. The weight reduction allows for more speed.

Are u embarrassed yet? Or are u so shameless that u r gonna come back with some other BS? I'm expecting pictures of destroyed targets btw for ur idiotic claim above.

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## MastanKhan

JamD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728



Hi,

Sir---Pakistan may claim whatever it wants to---India has successfully made its surgical strike---.

And the Paf had been made to stick its tail between its legs---.

Now---if the Paf challenges in kind and makes a counter strike---then we will see who has the ballz---.

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## YeBeWarned

The Diplomat said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728
> So much for a stike within Pakistan, ahhahahahahahahhahahah.



something doesn't stack up, check out the surrounding , no burning fire ? no burned grass ?

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## Crixus

shall we expect the tactical nukes in response ..... as you have first use policy


Starlord said:


> ISPR confirmed the incursion .. so there is no denying it .


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

HMM DGISPR says they intruded. while indian claim is they fired from with in indian occupied kashmir poonch

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## Death Adder

The Diplomat said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728
> So much for a stike within Pakistan, ahhahahahahahahhahahah.



It’s enough to satisfy boot lickers like you, but for me 50km deep incursion in our territory is a matter of shame.


----------



## MastanKhan

blain2 said:


> Does Pakistan have some sort of force field to avoid such things? Clear
> 
> 
> Challenge what? To assuage y
> 
> Lets wait and see. I don't care much for instant gratification that most members here are looking for. There is a plan and strategy in play. We will see it get played out.




Hi,

Ain't you the one who used to brag---let the americans come and we will teach them a lesson---and then you disappeared from this board after the Salala incidence---?


----------



## Maxpane

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sir---Pakistan may claim whatever it wants to---India has successfully made its surgical strike---.
> 
> And the Paf had been made to stick its tail between its legs---.
> 
> Now---if the Paf challenges in kind and makes a counter strike---then we will see who has the ballz---.


10000000% agree. again they will give lame excuses. Paf is nothing just talk

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## Imad.Khan

Jackdaws said:


> Looks pretty. Again, I hope no civilian lives were lost. They are saying precision guided bombs were used.



its a tourist area, but its not in Kashmir, its KPK province.


----------



## The Diplomat

Death Adder said:


> It’s enough to satisfy boot lickers like you, but for me 50km deep incursion in our territory is matter of shame.


Not boot liking anything mate, I'm laughing at the fact that Indians are claiming a successful strike in Balakot. Don't spread further miss information, IAF dropped their payload to run from Pakistani fighters. There is still a massive issue on why our response time has a lag and where were our SAM controllers?


----------



## Surenas

Cookie Monster said:


> Payload is dropped either at the intended targ
> 
> im childish/fanboyish? Ok smarty pants tell me where it claims targets destroyed? Or did u just pull that out of ur rear end where sun don't shine?
> 
> If u r having trouble understanding I will repeat it for u slooowwwly.
> Theeeyyy HASTILY droooppped their paayyloooad.
> 
> Now that still might not be enough for ur pea brain. Do u know when a fighter jet hastily drops their payload? When they need to get out fast...either running away from chasing enemy fighters or trying to eascape from a BVR missile. The weight reduction allows for more speed.
> 
> Are u embarrassed yet? Or are u so shameless that u r gonna come back with some other BS? I'm expecting pictures of destroyed targets btw for ur idiotic claim above.



Seems like you are a naive child with the intellect of a deranged person. 

They crossed your air space and dropped bombs on your soil. Payload is NEVER hastily dropped, certainly not by the IaF who intentionally entered your air space and expected a possible interception.


----------



## valkyr_96

Crixus said:


> Perfect face saver ...


 first decide if it Azad Kashmir or Balkot


----------



## YeBeWarned

Crixus said:


> shall we expect the tactical nukes in response ..... as you have first use policy



No, Conventional response .. if not than PAF just help Modi to get re-elected .


----------



## Falcon26

blain2 said:


> Lets wait and see. I don't care much for instant gratification that most members here are looking for. There is a plan and strategy in play. We will see it get played out.



I can not speak for your instant gratification but the fact will remain that Pakistani airspace was penetrated and the planes in question went back home safe and sound. Worse yet, the IAF could have used stand-off weapons but chose to make a statement. Rest is face-saving exercise. The world doesn’t buy it.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

End result they murdered a tree RIP
By attacking an innocent tree they have shown they do not respect forests








The Daring claim of flying into KPK can be well understood after review of map , they only flew for about 2-5 minutes into Pakistani Territory which remaining good 95% of time in their on occupied side


The thin strip is a uninhabited forest / hill area

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## Ali0625

yaar please don't agree with indian media....... 

I'm pretty sure, Mirage can't carry lgb

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## Rollno21

Rafi said:


> No targets were hit. Seems like this was purely for domestic consumption.


Navie to believe ,your isrp twitting so early in the morning when the intrusion happened at 3 am .that's usual for isrp to issue statement so fast before the sunrise

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## HalfMoon




----------



## Foxtrot Delta

what's the point of destroying some open field or training camp ground? they flattened an already flat ground for what? atleast kill some terrorists.


----------



## Canuck786

BHarwana said:


> Roumers say Indian jet crashed in Indian territory can any Indian friend confirm?


Please sir, Let's hope we are better and stronger than this.

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## blain2

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Ain't you the one who used to brag---let the americans come and we will teach them a lesson---and then you disappeared from this board after the Salala incidence---?


If you have a problem with your recollection, don't waste others time on the board. Along with that, grow up as well. Your ego takes up a lot of space here.

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## The Diplomat

Rollno21 said:


> Navie to believe ,your isrp twitting so early in the morning when the intrusion happened at 3 am .that's usual for isrp to issue statement so fast before the sunrise


Was there any reason to wait?


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

Lol [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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## pakistanitarzan

Indians celebrating like the groom premature ejaculation on the wedding night. Tumhari awam chutto hai humari nahi.

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## Jackdaws

Imad.Khan said:


> its a tourist area, but its not in Kashmir, its KPK province.


Nope. It now seems there are 2 Balakots. One near the LoC, another in KPK. Can someone confirm?


----------



## Surenas

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> End result they murdered a tree RIP
> View attachment 541819
> 
> 
> View attachment 541818



Apparently in Pakistani dictionary attacking an open target on its soil with fighter jets who crossed into Pakistani air space doesn't amount to anything significant, because nothing has been destroyed. I've got news for you. I'm an Iranian, and anyone that dares to cross Iranian air space will be shot down instantly, which counts for most countries.


----------



## MastanKhan

Falcon26 said:


> I call BS on this.
> 
> The issue here is that the Indians successfully penetrated relatively deep into Pakistan and went back home unscathed. Even if we were to accept the ridiculous assertion that the “Indians turned tail” it doesn’t excuse the fact that PAF’s bluff was called. Try going that deep into India and see if it’s not a big deal. You are a senior member. Don’t confuse other members with such weak arguments



Hi,

Blain was a bullshitter con artist---used to brag a lot about Pak military---used to say---let the americans come in---we will teach them a lesson---we are not Iraq---.


Well---he turned tail after Salala incidence---.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Death Adder said:


> It’s enough to satisfy boot lickers like you, but for me 50km deep incursion in our territory is a matter of shame.



guided bombs have 200 km range plus. what if in one hour they fire another one into punjab while staying on their own side of the border. u can't stop glide bombs. dude.. if they were fired from with in indian kashmir.

*Now the question is, what will Pakistan reply? a strike back into india ? i very much think so *

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## Jackdaws

Crixus said:


> Nasar with nukes is about to get launched .... how can black Hindu baniya even think about such dare


Don't fuel the fire.


----------



## Rollno21

Why did the IAF use old Fighters ,our front line fighters are not for show


----------



## Death Adder

The Diplomat said:


> Not boot liking anything mate, I'm laughing at the fact that Indians are claiming a successful strike in Balakot. Don't spread further miss information, IAF dropped their payload to run from Pakistani fighters. There is still a massive issue on why our response time has a lag and where were our SAM controllers?



So what you reckon they should wait for PAF fighters to say hello, then go back? Stop making lame excuses. It’s time for Air chief and Niazi khusra to wake up and launch counter.


----------



## Darth Vader

Falcon26 said:


> I call BS on this.
> 
> The issue here is that the Indians successfully penetrated relatively deep into Pakistan and went back home unscathed. Even if we were to accept the ridiculous assertion that the “Indians turned tail” it doesn’t excuse the fact that PAF’s bluff was called. Try going that deep into India and see if it’s not a big deal. You are a senior member. Don’t confuse other members with such weak arguments



You do have to understand that the only way for PAF is to shoot IAF jet in indian territory and hope it falls inside Paf
If jet falls on indian side act of war
Fighter how even nimble and fast they are need large area to turn
So if paf shots turning jet and that falls again in indian same thing unless iaf actually bombed something in Pak
Normally few meters to few km act as buffer zone so they dont start shooting every thing if mistskes occur and
Even if every is thing is ready it will take couple of mints no matter how fast is the reaction time

Pskistan cant physically petrol 1000s of KM and have 24x7 jets in air how you think that will affect jets men and resources

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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100232960874299392


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## Foxtrot Delta

i think Missiles or deep strike munitions will be fired by Pakistan air force in retaliation .


----------



## zeeshe100

IAF nay kaha hai k attacks howaye hain 12 aircraft shamil they


----------



## valkyr_96

Starlord said:


> something doesn't stack up, check out the surrounding , no burning fire ? no burned grass ?


 it is most likely a drop tank which fits in the narrative this is how evasive manuveurs are taken....... the Indians have yet to decide if it is balakot or ajk ....lets see if there has been an attack it will be impossible to hide it from the journalists


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Rollno21 said:


> Why did the IAF use old Fighters ,our front line fighters are not for show



Mirage is the best air to ground asset


----------



## Rollno21

The Diplomat said:


> Was there any reason to wait?


India has voilated Pakistani airspace multiple times in the past ,do check how many times it has responded so fast and that too in the middle of the night


----------



## Falcon26

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Blain was a bullshitter con artist---used to brag a lot about Pak military---used to say---let the americans come in---we will teach them a lesson---we are not Iraq---.
> 
> 
> Well---he turned tail after Salala incidence---.



I respect Blain, he’s a great member and I remember him from the old Pakistani defense forum, I am not going to make aspersions on his character but I think he’s seriously downplaying what just occurred. You are right today. There was a failure at some level.


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Surenas said:


> Apparently in Pakistani dictionary attacking an open target on its soil with fighter jets who crossed into Pakistani air space doesn't amount to anything significant, because nothing has been destroyed. I've got news for you. I'm an Iranian, and anyone that dares to cross Iranian air space will be shot down instantly, which counts for most countries.




Pakistan has lived beside India for 70 year and we are used to the dog occasionally barking sometimes it even puts it's paw under the fence and after a while of barking the dog goes to sleep


Now this innocent tree had 100% right to grow and be tall and strong live for 100 years 
but it was injured but it will regrow tomorrow

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## The Diplomat

Death Adder said:


> Go back to sleep phudu
> 
> 
> So what you reckon they should wait for PAF fighters to say hello, then go back? Stop making lame excuses. It’s time for Air chief and Niazi khusra to wake up and launch counter.


Did I say that? Do you know how long IAF fighters were in Pakistani territory for? No. Stop fuelling Indian propaganda. Wait for ISPR to give a number; 30 seconds or 3 minutes.


----------



## Basel

Starlord said:


> hasty decisions are understandable from a paniced IAF pilot but if he drops the payload means it was right in the sight of PAF interceptor , in such case Pilot has no idea where the enemy dropped the bombs and how many civilians or Army personnel die, his mission is to destroy the enemy . even if it means enter the enemy territory , PAF has made a blunder and I will call them for this unless they come up with more updates .



PAF allowed them to cross LOC is big blunder after this Pakistan looks banana state, now Pakistani media doing stupid analysis to prove that India did drama.

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## Surenas

Foxtrot Delta said:


> guided bombs have 200 km range plus. what if in one hour they fire another one into punjab while staying on their own side of the border. u can't stop glide bombs. dude.. if they were fired from with in indian kashmir



Your creatively putting up unrealistic scenarios, while Pakistan has already confirmed that Indian fighter jets entered Pakistani air space and dropped their payload.


----------



## Rollno21

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Mirage is the best air to ground asset


Could be ,but they should have been escorted by our best fighters.just in case paf intercepted these mirages


----------



## Surenas

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Pakistan has lived beside India for 70 year and we are used to the dog occasionally barking sometimes it even puts it's paw under the fence and after a while of barking the dog goes to sleep



Nobody barked at you this time. They attacked you.

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## Rafi

Rollno21 said:


> Navie to believe ,your isrp twitting so early in the morning when the intrusion happened at 3 am .that's usual for isrp to issue statement so fast before the sunrise



You would expect the good General to get his ducks in a row before briefing the media.

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## Crixus

Now if old frames have such a capability ...think about Rafale 


Rollno21 said:


> Why did the IAF use old Fighters ,our front line fighters are not for show

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## Signalian

Foxtrot Delta said:


> i think Missiles or deep strike munitions will be fired by Pakistan air force in retaliation .


This can happen when the diplomatic/leadership channel takes an aggressive stance on Pakistani side. If the incident is downplayed in Pakistan, realistically there will be no response then.

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## Cookie Monster

Surenas said:


> Seems like you are a naive child with the intellect of a deranged person.
> 
> They crossed your air space and dropped bombs on your soil. Payload is NEVER hastily dropped, certainly not by the IaF who intentionally entered your air space and expected a possible interception.


U still skimpy on proof...hmm shame. Pakistan provided proof of ur hastily dropped payload and yet u haven't provided pictures of ur supposedly destroyed targets.

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## Crixus

Only general who gave briefing was on other side of border .....


Rafi said:


> You would expect the good General to get his ducks in a row before briefing the media.


----------



## Riz

Maxpane said:


> 10000000% agree. again they will give lame excuses. Paf is nothing just talk


They entered they bombed and this is not an excuse, we can hit back with excuse that india hits our village and that cause dozens of life of Pakistanies... So have an excuse of hitting back.. But only if we have balls.... Lets show us balls PAF.. Or get lost we aint interested in u after this

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## Rafi

Surenas said:


> Nobody barked at you this time. They attacked you.



Stop sucking their cocks, no casualties or damage on our part.

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## HalfMoon

Foxtrot Delta said:


> what's the point of destroying some open field or training camp ground? they flattened an already flat ground for what? atleast kill some terrorists.



Just for propaganda.



Rollno21 said:


> Why did the IAF use old Fighters ,our front line fighters are not for show



IAF Mirage 2000s are great for ground attack.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Basel said:


> PAF allowed them to cross LOC is big blunder after this Pakistan looks banana state, now Pakistani media doing stupid analysis to prove that India did drama.



yes, Pictures posted by ISPR , check them out there was no burned grass or massive holes in ground , I am pretty sure a 1000 pound bomb dropped even in empty jungle would cause some fire and burned grass and tree ? who the Fuq is lying ? if it was just Fuel tanks , it seems understandable , but pictures shown by ISPR is definitely not the result of Bombs .

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728
Ispr released pictures of drops falling on no man land.


----------



## MastanKhan

Basel said:


> PAF allowed them to cross LOC is big blunder after this Pakistan looks banana state, now Pakistani media doing stupid analysis to prove that India did drama.



Hi,

With all the awacs that the Paf has---the incursion of the IAF aircraft would be known with enough warning to strike back---.

But like Abbotabad---the 'radars' were shut down---.

Paf---zindabad---. Put me to shame Paf---do some retaliation and do a good job at it---.

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## HalfMoon




----------



## Falcon26

Some of the face-saving posts by otherwise senior members is really a sad sight. Gentlemen, there’s no harm or shame in saying that there was a failure at some stage. Denying an obvious fact only harms future credibility.

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## HalfMoon




----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The LOC violation is at a distance which a Jet fighter can cross in 2-5 minutes before it gets intercepted
It's not like they flew to Banu and Quetta and then stopped over for tea in Peshawar


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Signalian said:


> This can happen when the diplomatic/leadership channel takes an aggressive stance on Pakistani side. If the incident is downplayed in Pakistan, realistically there will be no response then.



Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Army already has the green light to respond. so diplomacy is no excuse here.


----------



## Maxpane

Riz said:


> They entered they bombed and this is not an excuse, we can hit back with excuse that india hits our village and that cause dozens of life of Pakistanies... So have an excuse of hitting back.. But only if we have balls.... Lets show us balls PAF.. Or get lost we aint interested in u after this


sir @MastanKhan was always right about Paf.

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## The Sandman

Falcon26 said:


> Some of the face-saving posts by otherwise senior members is really a sad sight. Gentlemen, there’s no harm or shame in saying that there was a failure as some stage. Denying an obvious fact only harms future credibility.


True it's cringey

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## Arsalan 345

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> With all the awacs that the Paf has---the incursion of the IAF aircraft would be known with enough warning to strike back---.
> 
> But like Abbotabad---the 'radars' were shut down---.
> 
> Paf---zindabad---. Put me to shame Paf---do some retaliation and do a good job at it---.



i also feel sad sir.

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## Alpha BeeTee

Falcon26 said:


> Some of the face-saving posts by otherwise senior members is really a sad sight. Gentlemen, there’s no harm or shame in saying that there was a failure at some stage. Denying an obvious fact only harms future credibility.


O bhai kuch confirm tou honay day! 
Bharti bhonk rahay hen tou hum maan jain?!

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## Surenas

Rafi said:


> Stop sucking their cocks, no casualties or damage on our part.



Foolish of me to not think that countries can enter Pakistani air space at will and drop their bombs, as long as they don't destroy anything in the meanwhile. Perhaps I should have had a more thorough understanding of Pakistani 'honor'. My fault.

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## Fieldmarshal

Starlord said:


> yes, Pictures posted by ISPR , check them out there was no burned grass or massive holes in ground , I am pretty sure a 1000 pound bomb dropped even in empty jungle would cause some fire and burned grass and tree ? who the Fuq is lying ? if it was just Fuel tanks , it seems understandable , but pictures shown by ISPR is definitely not the result of Bombs .


It's been raining/snowing since yesterday, so fire is out of the question


----------



## valkyr_96

Surenas said:


> Seems like you are a naive child with the intellect of a deranged person.
> 
> They crossed your air space and dropped bombs on your soil. Payload is NEVER hastily dropped, certainly not by the IaF who intentionally entered your air space and expected a possible interception.


 that is incorrect......"certainly not by the IAF" what is that suppose to mean? Even trageting pods are payloads

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## Falcon26

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728
> Ispr released pictures of drops falling on no man land.



They even botched a simple click. Why did they not take full pictures for context instead of zooming into some tree? This is insane

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## YeBeWarned

@AZADPAKISTAN2009 you idiot stop posting same picture again and again .

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Falcon26 said:


> Some of the face-saving posts by otherwise senior members is really a sad sight. Gentlemen, there’s no harm or shame in saying that there was a failure at some stage. Denying an obvious fact only harms future credibility.




Looks like they prepped up the hill with some holes

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## Novice09

Starlord said:


> ISPR confirmed the incursion .. so there is no denying it .



But Shaheens were ready...

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Starlord said:


> yes, Pictures posted by ISPR , check them out there was no burned grass or massive holes in ground , I am pretty sure a 1000 pound bomb dropped even in empty jungle would cause some fire and burned grass and tree ? who the Fuq is lying ? if it was just Fuel tanks , it seems understandable , but pictures shown by ISPR is definitely not the result of Bombs .


It depends on kind of explosive. But counter attack should happen.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Fieldmarshal said:


> It's been raining/snowing since yesterday, so fire is out of the question



have you noticed small green grass ... ? dude a 1000 pound bomb would have ripped those trees apart .

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## Maxpane

i had a great respect to paf because of its legacy and legends like sarfaraz rafiqui but todays Paf is just lazy and all talk

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## YeBeWarned

Novice09 said:


> But Shaheens were ready...



apparently they are not ..


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Rollno21 said:


> Could be ,but they should have been escorted by our best fighters.just in case paf intercepted these mirages



they never crossed into dangerous air space. 20 seconds of flight and then 360 degree hasty run . they didn't want to loose any aircraft. they planned it and tested Pakistan Air force for past 5 days . they saw an opening tried to take it. 

if Modi wins by just destroying open fields labeling them terrorist camps then what can i say..

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## Rafi

Surenas said:


> Foolish of me to not think that countries can enter Pakistani air space at will and drop their bombs, as long as they don't destroy anything in the meanwhile. Perhaps I should have had a more thorough understanding of Pakistani 'honor'. My fault.



Calm down sonny, let's see what happens.


----------



## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100234482706272256


----------



## Falcon26

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> View attachment 541826
> 
> 
> View attachment 541827
> View attachment 541828



A zoomed image of a tree and remnant of an exploded weapon? Seriously? This is suppose to validate some glory?


----------



## fitpOsitive

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


ISI say unhon nain surgical strike na bnali tu kehna...


----------



## Icewolf

Surenas said:


> Foolish of me to not think that countries can enter Pakistani air space at will and drop their bombs, as long as they don't destroy anything in the meanwhile. Perhaps I should have had a more thorough understanding of Pakistani 'honor'. My fault.




Shutup dumbass there's a large geopolitical reason why Pakistan didn't respond in kind. If Pakistan had shot down IAF jets then I'm sure a war would have been started. But either way that war would have ended after international pressure on both sides. So there's no point for Pakistan to attack . India and Pakistan both know that if a serious war starts, then the only thing that can end it now is nukes. And no one wants to use nukes. So no one wants to start a war. Hence the pussy shit by the Indian Air Force.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Cookie Monster said:


> U still skimpy on proof...hmm shame. Pakistan provided proof of ur hastily dropped payload and yet u haven't provided pictures of ur supposedly destroyed targets.


It's the "air surgical strike"....

On a serious note, IAF fighters crossed the LOC, intercepted by PAF, IAF fighters went back leaving behind payload (fuel tank and/or bomb)!!! No direct engagements b/w fighters occurred!!! Now, Pak is showing the derbies from the IA fighters' payload on an open field!!! In contrast, if IAF gives the coordinates of the bombs dropped and real damages are shown then it's a different story...

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## Signalian

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Army already has the green light to respond. so diplomacy is no excuse here.


IK said that if India strikes, Pakistan will retaliate. The ball is in his court now and ofcourse Military's also.

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## pakistanitarzan

Paf will respond just dont wet your pants

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100233173957599232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100233952709787648


----------



## HalfMoon




----------



## MastanKhan

Maxpane said:


> sir @MastanKhan was always right about Paf.



Hi,

I would love to be proven wrong---.

The Paf can smack me in the face---slap me---humiliate me---degrade me---by proving that they are someone special by their actions---.

I am ready for my humiliation---so let us see when it comes from the Paf---.

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## Arsalan 345

where is our response?


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Signalian said:


> IK said that if India strikes, Pakistan will retaliate. The ball is in his court now and ofcourse Military's also.



befitting reply Would be Cruise missile strike or Air force stand off drop.


----------



## valkyr_96

Jackdaws said:


> Don't fuel the fire.





enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100234482706272256


 interesting please do tell us about those alpha 3 control rooms

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100234546467893248
Anticipating paf response


----------



## Maxpane

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would love to be proven wrong---.
> 
> The Paf can smack me in the face---slap me---humiliate me---degrade me---by proving that they are someone special by their actions---.
> 
> I am ready for my humiliation---so let us see when it comes from the Paf---.


sir , am sorry but they will do nothing


----------



## Death Adder

Surenas said:


> Foolish of me to not think that countries can enter Pakistani air space at will and drop their bombs, as long as they don't destroy anything in the meanwhile. Perhaps I should have had a more thorough understanding of Pakistani 'honor'. My fault.



It’s indeed disappointing. They even said after Kamra incident that all assets are safe and sound.

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## blain2

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Blain was a bullshitter con artist---used to brag a lot about Pak military---used to say---let the americans come in---we will teach them a lesson---we are not Iraq---.
> 
> 
> Well---he turned tail after Salala incidence---.


Please spare me and others here your nonsense. Unlike your armchair trash, at least I know what I know for a fact.

But don't let me stop you from impressing your fanbase here with your armchair jernailship! Carry on please!

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

No Casualty or Damage , seems like what Pakistan reported

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Arsalan 345 said:


> where is our response?


Dropping a payload on an open field in IOK...

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## YeBeWarned

Signalian said:


> IK said that if India strikes, Pakistan will retaliate. The ball is in his court now and ofcourse Military's also.



PML and PPP will definitely use this against him in next election , even though their response would be similar , IK needs to order a counter strike .. if he has that power in the first place.


Yaar Rashid Minhaas aur MM Alaam ki rooh Aaj tarap rahi ho gi

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## BRAVO_

as usual pakistani diplomatic offense is on ... condemnations and bla bla bla ...

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## Reichsmarschall

We want nothing less than total annihilation of srinagar airbase


----------



## Surenas

Icewolf said:


> Shutup dumbass there's a large geopolitical reason why Pakistan didn't respond in kind. If Pakistan had shot down IAF jets then I'm sure a war would have been started. But either way that war would have ended after international pressure on both sides. So there's no point for Pakistan to attack . India and Pakistan both know that if a serious war starts, then the only thing that can end it now is nukes. And no one wants to use nukes. So no one wants to start a war. Hence the pussy shit by the Indian Air Force.



So you are already making up excuses? Good to know that countries can attack Pakistan and not expect any counter-reaction if relevant geopolitical reasons are present in the event.

I've got news for you: where I come from, any country that enters our air space and drops their bombs will be immediately engaged.

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## Fieldmarshal

Starlord said:


> have you noticed small green grass ... ? dude a 1000 pound bomb would have ripped those trees apart .


U can see burnt trees...but the reason why their is no fire is that it's raining.....
The reason why u can't see a bomb crator is the fact that they hit the side of a small hill which has caused a mini land slide.

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## Arsalan 345

Reichsmarschall said:


> We want nothing less than total annihilation of srinagar airbase



we must hit them back otherwise our image will be like somalia.fire raad alcm.


----------



## Salza

Another fake surgical strike strike drama... Their airforce is even not confirming the attack while their media is making up stories based on ispr tweets

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## darksider

Cannot paf fucking drop just a water melon inside india so we can claim counter strike?

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## Jackdaws

Reichsmarschall said:


> We want nothing less than total annihilation of srinagar airbase


Keep wanting.


----------



## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100234393027821569


----------



## YeBeWarned

Pakistani Media as always playing Angel and saints ... seems like Pakistani Air force and Army has been humiliated and now its just a face saving . Buhat Afsos hua

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## Signalian

Starlord said:


> have you noticed small green grass ... ? dude a 1000 pound bomb would have ripped those trees apart .


So it wasn't a bomb. Payload could mean fuel tank also.

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## GriffinsRule

Unbelievable that Pakistanis here are eating up the words of Indian media. Shame on you guys.
If IAF conducted an airstrike with LGBs, they can show the images of the strikes happening actually. Except they are not. While ISPR has clearly show the result of whatever was dropped by IAF aircraft. (Also, not in Balakot in KPK but near the LOC, maybe as little as a few kms away).

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Signalian said:


> IK said that if India strikes, Pakistan will retaliate. The ball is in his court now and ofcourse Military's also.


IMO it's neither a strike nor a non-strike....


darksider said:


> Cannot paf fucking drop just a water melon inside india so we can claim counter strike?


700K IA forces vs <1K Mujahidin inside IOK...

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## Reichsmarschall

Signalian said:


> Violated LOC....not intruded...IAF planes were in the buffer zone, they did not cross inside Pakistan. This buffer zone is a few miles wide.


Sir g they bombed balakot which is in kpk 
They came 45km inside


----------



## Rollno21

Good India is not scared to escalate unlike previous times.


----------



## zeeshe100

dgispr ka 92 news channel pey kehna hai koi jani yah mali nuksan nahe howa


----------



## valkyr_96

Signalian said:


> IK said that if India strikes, Pakistan will retaliate. The ball is in his court now and ofcourse Military's also.


 unfortunately the economy will drag us down


----------



## Jackdaws

India played its game well. Got major countries in the world to pin blame on Jaish. Now says it attacked Jaish launching pad or camp. Not attacked Pak official installation. So even if Pak wants to retaliate - what will be their target? Targeting official installations would be major escalation and an act of war.

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## The Sandman

I'm seeing a lot of members here trying their best to do minimize the humiliation saying it merely entered for 20 seconds and went back, some are saying they dropped payload on open ground and went back. Russian jet entered for 17 seconds in Turkish airspace and it was shot down and here they entered, dropped their payload and went back and response from "shaheens".? I can't believe members here are happy and saying "oh they went back in a few seconds" FFS they attacked Pakistani SOIL

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## Surenas

GriffinsRule said:


> Unbelievable that Pakistanis here are eating up the words of Indian media. Shame on you guys.
> If IAF conducted an airstrike with LGBs, they can show the images of the strikes happening actually. Except they are not. While ISPR has clearly show the result of whatever was dropped by IAF aircraft. (Also, not in Balakot in KPK but near the LOC, maybe as little as a few kms away).



India is likely not releasing the footage so that the Pakistani government and army can save face by entertaining its people with ridiculous explanations such as Indian fighter jets unintentionally dropping their payload while being chased by the heroic PAF.

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## Reichsmarschall

Jackdaws said:


> Keep wanting.


Just wait and watch we did it before we shall do it again
Pathankot AFB is again up for heavy beating

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## Arsalan 345

Jackdaws said:


> India played its game well. Got major countries in the world to pin blame on Jaish. Now says it attacked Jaish launching pad or camp. Not attacked Pak official installation. So even if Pak wants to retaliate - what will be their target? Targeting official installations would be major escalation and an act of war.



act of war? you already started this war.

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## YeBeWarned

Signalian said:


> So it wasn't a bomb. Payload could mean fuel tank also.



from the pictures released by ISPR , it does imply that it wasn't bombs but fuel tanks

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## GriffinsRule

Surenas said:


> India is likely not releasing the footage so that the Pakistani government and army can save face by entertaining its people with ridiculous explanations such as Indian fighter jets unintentionally dropping their payload while being chased by the heroic PAF.


Keep telling yourself that...India is doing Pakistan a favor ... what great logic

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## iLION12345_1

I like how both the Indian media and the Pakistani memebers are ejaculating without any idea of what happened.
I’m more embarrassed by your own reaction then what the PAF failed to do or the IAF did. I’d much rather the IAF have succeeded in doing this then see my fellow countrymen berate their own armed forces over something they have no clue about. Calm your asses. 
Secondly; the Indian media has no proof except for DGISPRs Tweets. They’re doing the same thing they do every time; drama and made up shit that their people buy. Their own government and IAF hasn’t said anything.
They didn’t do any attacks either, not from what we have seen yet, maybe they did come inside, dropped some fuel tanks and left. But I think if they had dropped 1000 KG bombs. Someone from the public would have heard and noticed it. Use some common sense. Please. This is as real as the first surgical strike until they show actual proof. 
Wait for a conference and actual confirmation from either side. The Indians need little things to make them happy and their media provides that, and the Pakistanis fall for it too, at this point we’re both equal.

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## YeBeWarned

The Sandman said:


> I'm seeing a lot of members here trying their best to do minimize the humiliation saying it merely entered for 20 seconds and went back, some are saying they dropped payload on open ground and went back. Russian jet entered for 17 seconds in Turkish airspace and it was shot down and here they entered, dropped their payload and went back and response from "shaheens".? I can't believe members here are happy and saying "oh they went back in a few seconds" FFS they attacked Pakistani SOIL



Bhai now I am seriously praying for my US visa  at least no one can bloody humiliate USAF  hum tu half American hain

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## Foxtrot Delta

Jackdaws said:


> India played its game well. Got major countries in the world to pin blame on Jaish. Now says it attacked Jaish launching pad or camp. Not attacked Pak official installation. So even if Pak wants to retaliate - what will be their target? Targeting official installations would be major escalation and an act of war.



that's true.



Starlord said:


> from the pictures released by ISPR , it does imply that it wasn't bombs but fuel tanks


are you an expert? the soil seems burnt up to me. also it is wet there raining.


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## Riz

Rafi said:


> Stop sucking their cocks, no casualties or damage on our part.


Ok.. I believe on u.. But they crossed the limits we should also cross the line of control . Drop load 50, to 60 km inside kashmir and then come back like they did... Time to show up some thing.. Or we will be labeled as cowards


Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Dropping a payload on an open field in IOK...


Exactly..

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## Surenas

GriffinsRule said:


> Keep telling yourself that...India is doing Pakistan a favor ... what great logic



Yes, it does. The same reason why the Israeli Air Force had a policy of ambiguity regarding the aerial attacks it conducted for decades, up untill the Syrian Civil War. 

India wanted to demonstrate strenghth to the Pakistani army, while simultaneously not completely humiliate the new Pakistani government.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Falcon26 said:


> A zoomed image of a tree and remnant of an exploded weapon? Seriously? This is suppose to validate some glory?



The tree can be replanted 
PAF analyses all aspects of action we don't have a knee jerk reaction

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## iLION12345_1

Cont: if they had dropped bombs here, that would be an act of all out war, we would have responded immediately, not with military, but with a statement to tell the people what was going on. But in the end if the proof shows that it did actually happen, can we not act like dumbasses and try to save face. We need to wait for our own government to reply and not berate our armed forces for no reason while we sit on beds and couches.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100229933203406849

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## Falcon26

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> The tree can be replanted


 Major embarrassment for PAF


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## YeBeWarned

even if it was for show off, IAF did cross the LoC , ISPR confirm it , something was dropped into Pakistani territory that is enough Material for Indians to jump ... if IAF or India got without any visible damage , Pakistan is toast , next strike will come from Iran .

Aaj ke liye buhat zalil ho gaye, Ab PAF ko Karo Indians , you earn that

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## Jackdaws

Arsalan 345 said:


> act of war? you already started this war.


I understand your response. I would be outraged too if I were in your place.


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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100239666135982080


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## Jackdaws

Reichsmarschall said:


> Just wait and watch we did it before we shall do it again
> Pathankot AFB is again up for heavy beating
> View attachment 541830


Lol. OK.


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## Arsalan 345

Jackdaws said:


> I understand your response. I would be outraged too if I were in your place.



i still believe we can hit you back.

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## RealNapster

Jackdaws said:


> They dropped a payload?



That also near Balakot. Balakot is very close to Mansehra. And all we talking about is Scrambling. This is some serious violation. Thery were out of Kashmir and Flew over KP...


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## unbiasedopinion

tauba tauba

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## Signalian

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> IMO it's neither a strike nor a non-strike....


But there are ways of responding. This trend by India has to stop.

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## Jackdaws

Arsalan 345 said:


> i still believe we can reply you.


I know. Replying is not hard. Containing the escalation is.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Falcon26 said:


> Major embarrassment for PAF




No not really we expect our Airforce to make informed judgement

There are a million and one ways to respond but we prefer our Airforce to analyse Enemy's move

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Riz said:


> Ok.. I believe on u.. But they crossed the limits we should also cross the line of control . Drop load 50, to 60 km inside kashmir and then come back like they did... Time to show up some thing.. Or we will be labeled as cowards
> 
> Exactly..


I for one would like to see the big picture!!! Violations of all sorts at such heightened state of tension, initiated by India (7x larger enemy with 700K forces bogged down for <1K Mujahidin inside IOK), are more than expected!!! Now, the question is where does it lead too???? So far, it's the released payload (probably fuel tank) on an open field!!! Is that all after so much drama???? And, it must have put the Pak authorities in a dilemma...

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## GriffinsRule

iLION12345_1 said:


> I like how both the Indian media and the Pakistani memebers are ejaculating without any idea of what happened.
> I’m more embarrassed by your own reaction then what the PAF failed to do or the IAF did. I’d much rather the IAF have succeeded in doing this then see my fellow countrymen berate their own armed forces over something they have no clue about. Calm your asses.
> Secondly; the Indian media has no proof except for DGISPRs Tweets. They’re doing the same thing they do every time; drama and made up shit that their people buy. Their own government and IAF hasn’t said anything.
> They didn’t do any attacks either, not from what we have seen yet, maybe they did come inside, dropped some fuel tanks and left. But I think if they had dropped 1000 KG bombs. Someone from the public would have heard and noticed it. Use some common sense. Please. This is as real as the first surgical strike until they show actual proof.
> Wait for a conference and actual confirmation from either side. The Indians need little things to make them happy and their media provides that, and the Pakistanis fall for it too, at this point we’re both equal.



I am equally ashamed of these "patriotic" Pakistanis that just needed any excuse to berate their armed forces, and that too on the news reports of Indian media ... the same media btw which went into great details of how Indian paratroopers came in with helicopters with IAF providing aircover to carry out their first surgical strikes. 

The truth is apparent in ISPRs statement. IAF violated the LOC and when when confronted by PAF fighters went back. It is standard operating procedure to eject any fuel tanks etc in that situation to make the aircraft lighter and more agile. In fact that is the first thing pilots do then getting into an engagement. Except in this case, IAF dropped their tanks to get back to the their side of the LOC ... not the IB in KPK whatever.

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## Arsalan 345

Jackdaws said:


> I know. Replying is not hard. Containing the escalation is.



you can enjoy.it's your day but i believe in paf.i think they will retaliate.

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## Reichsmarschall

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100239666135982080


PAF was awake which made your boys run away
BTW congratulations for killing couple of trees

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## Zibago

RealNapster said:


> That also near Balakot. Balakot is very close to Mansehra. And all we talking about is Scrambling. This is some serious violation. Thery were out of Kashmir and Flew over KP...


Not that balakot

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## Mani2020

Another day another humiliation.

During attack on OBL, american choppers went un-detected, we were humiliated
After 26-11 indian jets violated our airspace and mr. zaradari, the then president was justifying it - humiliation
We lost important assets at the hands of some terrorists who attacked paf base - humiliation
What happened today - humiliation

And yet we have some members continuously defending PAF because in india pakistan scenario emotions easily overcome rationality and not to forget false egos which dont let us accept the reality.

The reality is at this point in time IAF and IN are way more superior to PAF and PN, keeping variables such as training, religion etc a side for the time being because these are subjective.

The reality is if wont accept the superiority of our enemy we wont be able to sort out things at our end.

I know members here will keep defending PAF but PAF has been a continous failure for last 2 decades or so. PAF today is different from what it was back in 65. On one hand our enemy has learned from his mistakes while we are riding on high horses claiming to be invincible.

As of now PAF is not more than a mere soft target for terrorists.

Fact of the matter is we cant fight a conventional war and we cant afford a nuclear war. We are loosing at both ends.

Now armchair generals can continue bragging about F-16s and Jf-17s and pilots skills. Best of luck with that !!!

May ALLAH save us from such humiliations.

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## Arsalan 345

pakistan should escalate it.fire cruise missiles.


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## GriffinsRule

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100229933203406849



There you have it ... typical Pakistanis and their penchant for jumping up and down on every small thing.

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## RealNapster

Zibago said:


> Not that balakot



Ahan... we have another one in Kashmir ?


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## Yaseen1

Falcon26 said:


> Major embarrassment for PAF


Turkey shot russian jet when it entered a bit of their territory but paf failed to down indianjets iaf is much weaker than russia airforce so it is failure of our army our generals lack courage to respond

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## Alpha BeeTee

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100229933203406849


O shit! 
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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## GriffinsRule

I think its time we start putting people on timeout that are just writing one liners here, trying to throw shade at PAF ...

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## Great Janjua

Doobh kay marjo the Indian public is already going haywire over PAF lack of action .and the Indians have claimed off dropping 1000kg bomb #LakhDiLanat


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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

So, this is very interesting development. 
Which exposes a somewhat clueless Pakistan. Either current alert systems are not effective enough to know when and where planes take off in Indian Kashmir or a more dangerous laissez-faire approach. In either case the attacker holds the initiative and prerogative. In both scenarios Pakistan seems to be lagging way behind being a critical nuclear armed nation in that part of the world. 
Any weakness can mean annihilation!

Time to go back to the drawing boards for those that are supposedly guarding to the borders. Pakistan lacks both anti air and radar penetration... 

Go figure...

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100244370127810560


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## Alpha BeeTee

So apparantly 5 hrs after the 'strike', Ind defense ministry is unaware.

Good going [emoji23][emoji23]

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## GriffinsRule

Falcon26 said:


> Major embarrassment for PAF



Dont worry, USAF and USN have far more major embarrassments that you should concern yourself with first

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## Rakesh

Is there any Balakot village near LOC ?


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## Captain77W

Time to buzz some Indian Air Bases


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## Taha Samad

GriffinsRule said:


> Unbelievable that Pakistanis here are eating up the words of Indian media. Shame on you guys.
> If IAF conducted an airstrike with LGBs, they can show the images of the strikes happening actually. Except they are not. While ISPR has clearly show the result of whatever was dropped by IAF aircraft. (Also, not in Balakot in KPK but near the LOC, maybe as little as a few kms away).



So why the hell ISPR can not issue a clarification. Its been good few hours.

Secondly, simply showing few pic won't work. They need to come out with good amount of info like radar record, radio comm. And if this was indeed Balakot KPK, finally there needs to be a response as this was well inside Pakistani territory; and hence an act of war.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Surenas said:


> As an Iranian, it would be wise for Pakistan to understand that its neighbours are fed up with Islamabad turning a blind eye to the terrorist groups operating from its soil to stage attacks on them. India just demonstrated its seriousness to this issue by warning Pakistan, as I believe that this attack by IaF was merely conducted to establish deterrence and showcase its capabilities. Pakistan should take notice.



As an Iranian , your input is valued however Pakistan has no Objectionable assets our soil , India is killing Pakistani people in Kashmir , and this those people are forging a movement of independence.

The Attack by Indians was merely a sign of desperation , because they know Kashmir is slipping away

Kashmir and it's people have 100% moral support from Pakistan and if needed more will be done to hasten the independence of Kashmir

The Sikh , population of India has also requested a Separation from India

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## Taha Samad

Rakesh said:


> Is there any Balakot village near LOC ?



Yes there is.


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## khansaheeb

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.


Oh no, another surgical strike Indian style, Indian media bonanza tomorrow.

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## Falcon26

GriffinsRule said:


> Dont worry, USAF and USN have far more major embarrassments that you should concern yourself with first



Lol the USAF & USN will never allow another country to penetrate US airspace and target a US territory. PAF does that almost daily on the Afghan border and now Indian border ‍♂️

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## Rafael

Rakesh said:


> Is there any Balakot village near LOC ?



From what I am hearing’ yes. It’s probably Balakot near LOC and not KP.


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## Surenas

Alpha BeeTee said:


> So apparantly 5 hrs after the 'strike', Ind defense ministry is unaware.
> 
> Good going [emoji23][emoji23]



You are so stupid. You do realize that Israel as well as other major powers occasionally invoke ambiguity over such attacks as a matter of policy?


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## GriffinsRule

Taha Samad said:


> So why the hell ISPR can not issue a clarification. Its been good few hours.
> 
> Secondly, simply showing few pic won't work. They need to come out with good amount of info like radar record, radio comm. And if this was indeed Balakot KPK, finally there needs to be a response as this was well inside Pakistani territory; and hence an act of war.



And yet the Indian govt is unaware of this major strike apparently



Falcon26 said:


> Lol the USAF & USN will never allow another country to penetrate US airspace and target a US territory. PAF does that almost daily on the Afghan border and now Indian border ‍♂️


No, they find many other ways to embarrass themselves. There is not shortage of examples

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## Darth Vader

khansaheeb said:


> Oh no, another surgical strike Indian style, Indian media bonanza tomorrow.


Man i am a Oracle i can see future damñnnnnnnnnnn


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Signalian said:


> But there are ways of responding. This trend by India has to stop.


If 700K Indian troops have remained bogged down inside IOK for a number of decades then IMO it's a response in a constant mode...

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## Mani2020

I guess its time to revise the tagline of PAF

"Stay Awake because PAF is asleep"

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## Falcon26

GriffinsRule said:


> And yet the Indian govt is unaware of this major strike apparently
> 
> 
> No, they find many other ways to embarrass themselves. There is not shortage of examples



I was going to say “if it makes you sleep better at night” but I think it’s morning for you lol


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## Rafi

This changes nothing. Back to work.

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## unbiasedopinion

darksider said:


> Cannot paf fucking drop just a water melon inside india so we can claim counter strike?


confused!! tamatar ka jawab atom bomb se and actual bomb ka jawab water mellon se...


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## GriffinsRule

Falcon26 said:


> I was going to say “if it makes you sleep better at night” but I think it’s morning for you lol



Yes its morning in California ... another retard on the ignore list


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## Rafi

Trolling is overload.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Falcon26 said:


> Lol the USAF & USN will never allow another country to penetrate US airspace and target a US territory. PAF does that almost daily on the Afghan border and now Indian border ‍♂️




Didn't Russian Jets scared off F15 few days back







More harassment

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Falcon26 said:


> Lol the USAF & USN will never allow another country to penetrate US airspace and target a US territory. PAF does that almost daily on the Afghan border and now Indian border ‍♂️


9-11...


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## Salza

Relax guys why should we attack or escalate the hysteria when they never attacked. We will only response when there will be a real attack. They tried to attack but ran away as usual when they spotted paf planes coming after them.


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## Jackdaws

Arsalan 345 said:


> you can enjoy.it's your day but i believe in paf.i think they will retaliate.


This may surprise you but I don't enjoy any form of violence. From any side.


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## Imad.Khan

Jackdaws said:


> Nope. It now seems there are 2 Balakots. One near the LoC, another in KPK. Can someone confirm?



I have never heard of a Balakot in Kashmir, Balakot is in KPK.


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## unbiasedopinion

Signalian said:


> So it wasn't a bomb. Payload could mean fuel tank also.


It could also mean we dropped some junk too...Why dont your airforce confirms what the payload was? We are claiming the payload was bomb. Why dont you clarify what it was and refrain from using the generic terms?


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## khansaheeb

American Pakistani said:


> Why didn't shoot them? Who cares about scrambling or what, they intruded and went back unharmed, remember how they shot Pakistan Navy plane in late 90's killing many personal on board, but here we are just scrambling.


In Kargil


Falcon26 said:


> Lol the USAF & USN will never allow another country to penetrate US airspace and target a US territory. PAF does that almost daily on the Afghan border and now Indian border ‍♂️


No you just run after defeats.


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## Zibago

RealNapster said:


> Ahan... we have another one in Kashmir ?


Yes its a village near loc

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## Falcon26

Rafi said:


> This changes nothing. Back to work.


Lol seriously?

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## khansaheeb

Darth Vader said:


> Man i am a Oracle i can see future damñnnnnnnnnnn


I think you are something else but I won't describe you.


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## Falcon26

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> 9-11...



We are talking about an enemy Air Force violating US airbase. How many terror attacks happened throughout the world?


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## Jackdaws

khansaheeb said:


> In Kargil
> 
> No you just run after defeats.


It wasn't shot down in Kargil, it was shot down over the Rann of Kutch.


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## The Sandman

Imad.Khan said:


> I have never heard of a Balakot in Kashmir, Balakot is in KPK.


Face saving ka waqt hai smjha kro

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Falcon26 said:


> Lol seriously?



This can be fixed by replantation of tree and some seed
Seed bag sells for 20 bucks

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## manga

Arsalan 345 said:


> i still believe we can hit you back.


Hit what ?
There are no terror camps here.
And hitting iaf base means a full scale war.


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## maverick1977

Pakistan has no choice but to attack... otherwise it will be the new norm ... balakot is no joke


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## Rafi

Falcon26 said:


> Lol seriously?



Does not stop the Kashmir uprising in any way. Just a dressing for elections.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Falcon26 said:


> We are talking about an enemy Air Force violating US airbase. How many terror attacks happened throughout the world?


And, how many USAFs and USNs are there in the world?


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## cleverrider

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> With all the awacs that the Paf has---the incursion of the IAF aircraft would be known with enough warning to strike back---.
> 
> But like Abbotabad---the 'radars' were shut down---.
> 
> Paf---zindabad---. Put me to shame Paf---do some retaliation and do a good job at it---.



ISPR posting these pictures should tell you alot....


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## unbiasedopinion

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100229933203406849


Lets give pakistan government some face saving routes too.. After all Imran Khan is a pathan. He asked for actionable proof and we have given him by taking action. He can visit the place and see the terrorist camps destroyed there and consider that as proof..now it is his time to take action on this.


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## Salza

unbiasedopinion said:


> It could also mean we dropped some junk too...Why dont your airforce confirms what the payload was? We are claiming the payload was bomb. Why dont you clarify what it was and refrain from using the generic terms?



Your media is confirming only moreover we have released pictures... Even if that was a low yield dummy bomb, it was dropped on empty land clearly visible in the pictures hence another fake surgical strike attempt.

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## Falcon26

Rafi said:


> Does not stop the Kashmir uprising in any way. Just a dressing for elections.



You are too senior to know the ramifications of what just happened. IAF planes entered Pakistan, did the deed and went home. This is the headlines the world over, not face-saving escapes by Pakistan. For the first time, a nuclear armed country has done this to another nuclear armed country. India has always said Pakistan is a banana republic. Today it proved it.

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## khansaheeb

manga said:


> Hit what ?
> There are no terror camps here.
> And hitting iaf base means a full scale war.


We are close to a full scale war anyway. Best defense is offence. The quicker we strike your forces in kashmir the better.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Rakesh said:


> Is there any Balakot village near LOC ?



no there is just one balakot , which is north of Muzaffarabad. when Mach 2+ Full speed running aircraft drop something even fuel tanks even if they drop it straight down it travels forward with momentem now if those aircraft were at lets say above 6000 meters altitude those things they dropped fuel tanks of bombs glided a few good kilomters. 

my understanding is, by the way tongiht i didn't hear any aircraft jets over muzaffrabad may be i was too busy playing dota 2.. anyways my understanding is. indian airforce probably dropped glide Bombs from with in Indian occupied kashmir LOC boundry. most likley poonch or leepa area they dropped them and the payload glided all the way in probably missing some mountain top and falling behind a mountain missign its target. Hypothetically. speaking. 

the question is if there were 12 mirages why drop just 1 or two payload? and why use 12 aircraft. surprise attacks usually involved 2 or 4 max aircraft. 

i beleive those aircraft came really close to LOC and dropped glide bombs towards targets before they could be intercepted by Pakistan Air force assets. 

someone up there rightly said there is no reason to respond for now. cuz if we do drop a few bombs into indian kashmir who exactly are we targetting? 

also big question for me is... do we really have terrorist camps in balakot or muzaffarabda? my city? never seen one.

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## Canuck786

unbiasedopinion said:


> confused!! tamatar ka jawab atom bomb se and actual bomb ka jawab water mellon se...


I am feeling confused and somewhat embarrassed at the moment due to all the tall claims I always made of our readiness and ability to respond to exactly this kind of situation. And until I get some actions in support of my claims I will remain the same unfortunately. So go along and sing your song until my time comes and it will ISA.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Falcon26 said:


> You are too senior to know the ramifications of what just happened. IAF planes entered Pakistan, did the deed and went home. This is the headlines the world over, not face-saving escapes by Pakistan. For the first time, a nuclear armed country has done this to another nuclear armed country. India has always said Pakistan is a banana republic. Today it proved it.




Perhaps you are suggesting , PAF should , perform a knee jerk reaction minor incident and throw in fleet of 200 planes into India loaded with bombs and then follow it up with 140 Cruise missiles on Srinagar Airport

I mean why 200 we can fly all 500 planes into India

And if that is not manly enough may be we can send 35-70, 500km range missiles into Indian hot spots

Then follow up that with a Cluster bomb campaign on Indian barracks in Kashmir burn every Indian soldier into a crisp

I mean we have not even fired a NASR missile into Indian side yet we can if we wanted

If we wanted there would be no Srinagar Airport on Map there would be a big FAT hole

And Indian planes could attempt to request to land on our side of border to save their lives

The reaction from Pakistani side would be too much , for a mere incident at LOC

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## HalfMoon



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## Arsalan 345

manga said:


> Hit what ?
> There are no terror camps here.
> And hitting iaf base means a full scale war.



you hit us,doesn't matter terrorist camp or army camp.it's our territory.we will hit back.if we don't,we will become somalia.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Falcon26 said:


> You are too senior to know the ramifications of what just happened. IAF planes entered Pakistan, did the deed and went home. This is the headlines the world over, not face-saving escapes by Pakistan. For the first time, a nuclear armed country has done this to another nuclear armed country. India has always said Pakistan is a banana republic. Today it proved it.


Pentagon folks might have little different opinion vis-à-vis Afganistan...


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## unbiasedopinion

Salza said:


> Your media is confirming only moreover we have released pictures... Even if that was a low yield dummy bomb, it was dropped on empty land clearly visible in the pictures hence another fake surgical strike attempt.


Those pictures can be of any place of any junk. We need confirmation.


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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100247028410576896


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## Foxtrot Delta

*i can hear Fighter jets over muzaffarbad right now 9:22 AM*

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## MastanKhan

Falcon26 said:


> You are too senior to know the ramifications of what just happened. IAF planes entered Pakistan, did the deed and went home. This is the headlines the world over, not face-saving escapes by Pakistan. For the first time, a nuclear armed country has done this to another nuclear armed country. India has always said Pakistan is a banana republic. Today it proved it.



Hi,

And that is what is the whole truth---.

Whatever the Paf does after this incidence---it will not recover from their blunder of not taking out the IAF so close to the border---.

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## manga

khansaheeb said:


> We are close to a full scale war anyway. Best defense is offence. The quicker we strike your forces in kashmir the better.


Good. 
Just to infrom you, after striking early morning, iaf and defence is in full flow. So good luck.


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## Falcon26

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Perhaps you are suggesting , PAF should , perform a knee jerk reaction minor incident and throw in fleet of 200 planes into India loaded with bombs and then follow it up with 140 Cruise missiles on Srinagar Airport
> 
> And if that is not manly enough may be we can send 35-70, 500km range missiles into Indian hot spots



Be it as it may, something serious has happened. I am not a military strategist to know what PAF can and should do. All I am saying is that PAF’s bluff was called. At this rate, people who doubted India’s initial surgical strikes few months back, now have to rethink about their stances given the ridiculous lies and face saving tweets by Pakistani military officials

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## khansaheeb

manga said:


> Good.
> Just to infrom you, after striking early morning, iaf and defence is in full flow. So good luck.


 A Babur strike is about to follow.

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## Foxtrot Delta

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100247028410576896



it would be foolish of them if there were any terrorists and still in camps .. that would be very very stupid . 

also DGISPR said no damages or loss of life.


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## AMG_12

Best route for PAF would be intruding into Indian airspace, jettisoning fuel tanks into mountains & call it even..

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## unbiasedopinion

Canuck786 said:


> I am feeling confused and somewhat embarrassed at the moment due to all the tall claims I always made of our readiness and ability to respond to exactly this kind of situation. And until I get some actions in support of my claims I will remain the same unfortunately. So go along and sing your song until my time comes and it will ISA.


These claims were made in 1971 too which was last major escalations and we all know what happened. But India is waiting. Currently we have crossed and dropped something (chalo kush ho jao agar tumhari hi man li jaye ki dummy bomb tha) but we dropped something. This exposed Pakistans empty air defences again.


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## Falcon26

Foxtrot Delta said:


> it would be foolish of them if there were any terrorists and still in camps .. that would be very very stupid .
> 
> also DGISPR said no damages or loss of life.



At this stage, what DG ISPR says has no credibility

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## Canuck786

unbiasedopinion said:


> These claims were made in 1971 too which was last major escalations and we all know what happened. But India is waiting. Currently we have crossed and dropped something (chalo kush ho jao agar tumhari hi man li jaye ki dummy bomb tha) but we dropped something. This exposed Pakistans empty air defences again.


Use google translate to understand what I said in that post.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Falcon26 said:


> At this stage, what DG ISPR says has no credibility



how come? im at ground zero in muzaffrabad city . im hearing jets flying over my house. where are you at?

i think it happening just as DGISPR said it. it makes alot of sense. althought we dont have full info yet. i do think payload was laumched from with in indian side of LOC

*im just glad no collateral damage has happened so far.*


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## Arsalan 345

this balakot is near loc,near muzzafarabad,not in gilgit baltistan.this is not that balakot.anyway a hit is a hit.


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## Great Janjua

They claim off hitting chakothi that is like 1km from the friendship in AJK one off the biggest touristy spot in AJK if a bomb were to land in chakothi I think it would have been on the internet by now bullshit off the highest order

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## Salza

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> And that is what is the whole truth---.
> 
> Whatever the Paf does after this incidence---it will not recover from their blunder of not taking out the IAF so close to the border---.



Khan saab we will only reply if there is Real attack. They tried to sneak in deep but ran after we scrambled jets towards them. Why its so hard for u to understand. This wasn't an attack if was one, than a failed operation.

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## HalfMoon




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## Signalian

Falcon26 said:


> At this stage, what DG ISPR says has no credibility


Disagreed completely.

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100246330314616832


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## BRAVO_

interestingly the fighter jet showed in the attack vidoes on almost all indian news channels seems like JF-17 thunder rather than Mirage 2000

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## HalfMoon




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## Signalian

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541839
> 
> 
> View attachment 541840


This means now fresh attacks inside India cannot be blamed on JeM atleast.

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## MastanKhan

Salza said:


> Khan saab we will only reply if there is Real attack. They tried to sneak in deep but ran after we scrambled jets towards them. Why its so hard for u to understand. This wasn't an attack if was one, than a failed operation.



Hi,

Why is it so hard for you to understand that the Paf has acted like a coward for the last 2 decades---.

It strutted around with their F16's shooting down third rate russian aircraft during the first afghan war in the 80's---now when real enemy fighters are around and doing an incursion---the Paf fighters are nowhere to be seen---.

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100250789287682048


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## IceCold

BHarwana said:


> Pakistani jet made a hasty shot. The pilot got eager gave time to IAF to return. He wanted to claim the kill.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100211566924959745


Ohh Bhai what are you talking about? If DGISPR is saying no casualties or loss that means he talking about after IAF released bombs. PAF Kahan sa beach main ahh gai. PAF na to kia he nahi kuch sawai so called timely response dena ka.


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## Foxtrot Delta

BRAVO_ said:


> interestingly the fighter jet showed in the attack vidoes on almost all indian news channels seems like JF-17 thunder rather than Mirage 2000



if true those are warning flares for intruding aircraft.


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## Riz

Foxtrot Delta said:


> *i can hear Fighter jets over muzaffarbad right now 9:22 AM*


IAF or PAF...?

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## BRAVO_

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to understand that the Paf has acted like a coward for the last 2 decades---.
> 
> It strutted around with their F16's shooting down third rate russian aircraft during the first afghan war in the 80's---now when real enemy fighters are around and doing an incursion---the Paf fighters are nowhere to be seen---.


sir i need your expert opinion about post No. 563 since indian media representing this video in a continues repeat mod


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## Foxtrot Delta

Riz said:


> IAF or PAF...?



i doubt IAF can intrude. but engine sound never tells who it belongs to

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## cleverrider

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346

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## Falcon26

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to understand that the Paf has acted like a coward for the last 2 decades---.
> 
> It strutted around with their F16's shooting down third rate russian aircraft during the first afghan war in the 80's---now when real enemy fighters are around and doing an incursion---the Paf fighters are nowhere to be seen---.



Can you provide the excuse for 1997 MiG-31 incursion?
OBL Raid
Drone strikes 
PN Flight downing 
Today’s events 

It will be funny to see the evolution of PAF excuses over the years.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Of course ....they just forgot to use the delta wing in video
But that is cool , if India Media says Mirage flew then Mirages flew

The french will have to accept that Indians have changed the Mirage plane wing design

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## IFB

Riz said:


> IAF or PAF...?



lol sorry could not help it .


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## Ahmet Pasha

Yaar Indian public ko climax krne do. When Modi wins he will again challenge to lift people from poverty. And go back to playing PM of India and then conflict will be limited to LoC nok jhonk. 

And Pakistan will get 4-5 more years to get more investment and sort out economy.

Our main fo us should be on India trying to block our water sources. And getting corrupt fat cows to puke out all the haram wealth they have usurped.

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## Arsalan 345

Radio Pakistan: Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi has summoned an emergency meeting in Islamabad, Pakistan. The meeting will discuss the security situation.


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## Rusty

we all know that Indian media is psycopathic in its lies
so here is a well respected 3rd party

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/25/world/asia/india-pakistan-kashmir-jets.html

My favorite part:

"Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that Pakistan no longer runs such camps and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country."


Meanwhile Indian Media:
"We KiLl 1 mIlLiOn BaZiLlIoN pAk tErRoRiSsSsS"

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## HalfMoon




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## Mrc

Indian aircrafts’ intrusion across LOC in Muzafarabad Sector within AJ&K was 3-4 miles. Under forced hasty withdrawal aircrafts released payload which had free fall in open area. No infrastructure got hit, no casualties. Technical details and other important information to follow.

https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR


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## ejaz007

*Pakistan military says Indian jets violated airspace*
Pakistani military spokesman says planes released unspecified payload but there were no casualties or damage.

8 minutes ago





Tensions between the nuclear-armed neighbours have risen in recent days [Danish Ismail/Reuters]
*MORE ON ASIA*

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Indian aircraft have violated Pakistani airspace near the Line of Control in the disputed territory of Kashmir, dropping a payload in the Mansehra district that left no casualties, Pakistan's military has said.

The aircraft entered Pakistani airspace early on Tuesday morning and returned to India after Pakistani air force jets were scrambled to intercept them, Major General Asif Ghafoor said in a Twitter post.

"Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot. No casualties or damage," he said.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100179216375693318

Indian Air Force violated Line of Control. Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back. Details to follow.


15.4K
4:42 AM - Feb 26, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

9,203 people are talking about this



Shortly afterwards, Gajendra Singh Shekhawat, India's minister of state for agriculture, said Indian air force jets carried out air raids on "terror camps" inside Pakistan on Tuesday.

"Air Force carried out aerial strike early morning today at terror camps across the LoC (Line of Control) and Completely destroyed it," he wrote on Twitter.

India has repeatedly threatened military action against its neighbour Pakistan, who it blames of "controlling" a suicide attack that killed at least 42 Indian security forces personnel in the Indian-administered portion of Kashmir on February 14.

More to follow...

SOURCE: AL JAZEERA AND NEWS AGENCIES

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...india-violating-airspace-190226040437318.html


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## monitor

*Omar Abdullah
(@OmarAbdullah)*
If this is Balakote in KPK it’s a major incursion & a significant strike by IAF planes. However if it’s Balakote in Poonch sector, along the LoC it’s a largely symbolic strike because at this time of the year forward launch pads & militant camps are empty & non-functional

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## Signalian

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Yaar Indian public ko climax krne do. When Modi wins he will again challenge to lift people from poverty. And go back to playing PM of India and then conflict will be limited to LoC nok jhonk.
> 
> And Pakistan will get 4-5 more years to get more investment and sort out economy.
> 
> Our main fo us should be on India trying to block our water sources. And getting corrupt fat cows to puke out all the haram wealth they have usurped.


Its interesting how Indian politics and Indian Military is influenced through Pakistan.

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## valkyr_96

FYI

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100245339896856576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346

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## monitor

*IAF strikes in Azad Kashmir LIVE updates: Mirage 2000 jets drop 1,000 kg bombs across LoC; destroys JeM camps*
*Air Force strikes in Azad Kashmir: A meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security is underway at 7, Lok Kalyan Marg; all air defence systems along the international border and the LoC have been put on high alert.*


 BusinessToday.In New Delhi Last Updated: February 26, 2019 | 10:05 IST





The Indian Air Force (IAF) carried out major aerial strikes across LoC in Balakot region in Pakistan.
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Air Force strikes in Azad Kashmir: In a surprise to Pakistani security forces, the Indian Air Force reportedly dropped around 1,000 kg bombs on Jaish-e-Mohammed terror camps across the Line of Control (LoC) in Muzafarabad sector early morning on Tuesday. Pakistan army spokesperson Major General Asif Ghafoor also confirmed that that the Indian Air Force (IAF) violated the Line of Control (LoC). "Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot," he tweeted, adding that no casualties have been reported so far. ANI also reported: "At 0330 hours on 26th February, a group of Mirage 2000 Indian Fighter jets struck a major terrorist camp across the LoC and completely destroyed it."

*10.03am: *The Indian Air Force has put on high alert all air defence systems along the international border and LoC to respond to any possible action by Pakistan Air Force, reports ANI.

*9.51am: *Minister of State for Agriculture and Farmer's Welfare, Gajendra Singh Shekhawat, reiterates dialogue from the recent Bollywood hit Uri: The Surgical Strike. "This is new India, this will enter your home, and kill you too."

à¤¯à¥‡ à¤®à¥‹à¤¦à¥€ à¤•à¤¾ à¤¹à¤¿à¤‚à¤¦à¥à¤¸à¥à¤¤à¤¾à¤¨ à¤¹à¥ˆ, à¤˜à¤° à¤®à¥‡à¤‚ à¤˜à¥à¤¸à¥‡à¤—à¤¾ à¤à¥€ à¤”à¤° à¤®à¤¾à¤°à¥‡à¤—à¤¾ à¤à¥€,

Air Force carried out aerial strike early morning today at terror camps across the LoC and Completely destroyed it

à¤à¤• à¤à¤• à¤•à¤¼à¤¤à¤°à¤¾ à¤–à¤¼à¥‚à¤¨ à¤•à¤¾ à¤¹à¤¿à¤¸à¤¾à¤¬ à¤¹à¥‹à¤—à¤¾ !à¤¯à¥‡ à¤¤à¥‹ à¤à¤• à¤¶à¥à¤°à¥à¤†à¤¤ à¤¹à¥ˆ .. à¤¯à¥‡ à¤¦à¥‡à¤¶ à¤¨à¤¹à¥€à¤‚ à¤à¥à¤•à¤¨à¥‡ à¤¦à¥‚à¤‚à¤—à¤¾...#Balakot#Surgicalstrike2pic.twitter.com/fqYJgWxuqX

- Gajendra Singh Shekhawat (@gssjodhpur) February 26, 2019
*9.50am: *Congress leader Abhishek Manu Singhvi says "helter skelter by Pakistan seems like something big has happened".

Indian Air Force Strikes at Balakot don't have official word yet but the Helter skelter by Pakistan seems like something big has happened. The IAF has gone beyond Azad Kashmir & into Pakistan near their capital while they were busy counting alms received from Saudi & China.

- Abhishek Singhvi (@DrAMSinghvi) February 26, 2019 

Balakot which is quite far out into the LOC is a deep strike and purportedly where Hafeez Saeed gives a lot of his addresses. If IAF penetrated that deep without casualties it's a highly successful mission.

- Abhishek Singhvi (@DrAMSinghvi) February 26, 2019
*9.40am: *Congress President Rahul Gandhi says: "I salute the pilots of the IAF."

ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡³ I salute the pilots of the IAF. ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡³

- Rahul Gandhi (@rahulgandhi) February 26, 2019
*9.39am: *Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh head to meet Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the strikes carried out by the Indian Air Force.

*9.39am: Where is Balakot in Pakistan: *Balakot, a town in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province in Pakistan, is about 50 km (31 miles) from the Line of Control (LoC), which acts as a de facto border between the two countries that have fought three wars since their independence from British colonial rule in 1947, says Reuters.





Click here to Enlarge



*9.30am: *The action comes just 12 days after a CRPF convoy was targeted by a JeM suicide bomber, killing 40 personnel and injuring five others.

*9.26am: *All terror camps of JeM across Balakot, Chakothi and Muzaffarabad destroyed in Pakistan.

Indian Mirage fighters destroy Azad Kashmir terror camps: Sources. Live updates #ITLivestreamhttps://t.co/74mCXdRJty

- India Today (@IndiaToday) February 26, 2019
*9.25am: *Reports suggest Prime Minister Narendra Modi has been briefed on the air strikes conducted by National Security Advisor Ajit Doval.

*9.19am: *The government to brief media on the India Air Force strike soon. The government earlier declined to comment on the issue even though the Pakistani side confirmed that India conducted air strikes across LoC in Balakot region in Pakistan.

*9.09am: *Pakistan army spokesperson Major General Asif Ghafoor confirms the damage done by the Indian Air Force fighter jets.

Payload of hastily escaping Indian aircrafts fell in open. pic.twitter.com/8drYtNGMsm

- Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor (@OfficialDGISPR) February 26, 2019
*9.07am:* As per News18, the Indian Air Force strikes could have caused around 200-300 casualties on the Pakistani side.

*9.05am: *NC leader and former J&K CM Omar Abdullah lauds the Air Force, says "if this is true this was not a small strike by any stretch of imagination".

Wow, if this is true this was not a small strike by any stretch of imagination but will wait for official word, should any be forthcoming. https://t.co/bOFt7SXl43

- Omar Abdullah (@OmarAbdullah) February 26, 2019
*9.01am: *The government has so far declined to comment on the issue but has also not denied about reports of the Indian Air Force conducting strikes across the Line of Control.

*9.00am: *As many as 12 Mirage 2000 jets took part in the operation that completely destroyed several terror camps across the Line of Control in Pakistan.

IAF Sources: 12 Mirage 2000 jets took part in the operation that dropped 1000 Kg bombs on terror camps across LOC, completely destroying it pic.twitter.com/BP3kIrboku

- ANI (@ani) February 26, 2019
*8.38am: *Pakistan army spokesperson Major General Asif Ghafoor claims the Indian aircraft intruded into Pakistan from the Muzaffarabad sector.

Indian aircrafts intruded from Muzafarabad sector. Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot. No casualties or damage.

- Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor (@OfficialDGISPR) February 26, 2019
Indian Air Force violated Line of Control. Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back. Details to follow.

- Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor (@OfficialDGISPR) February 25, 2019*8.20am: *Around 10 Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft strike several terror camps across the LoC.
IAF Sources: At 0330 hours on 26th February a group of Mirage 2000 Indian Fighter jets struck a major terrorist camp across the LoC

and completely destroyed it. pic.twitter.com/RlxTJ4e3AF

- ANI (@ani) February 26, 2019
Edited by Manoj Sharma





Do you like this story? 



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## Signalian

monitor said:


> at this time of the year forward *launch pads & militant camps* are *empty & non-functional*


Imaginary terms and imaginary logic.

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## enquencher

Signalian said:


> This means now fresh attacks inside India cannot be blamed on JeM atleast.


No


Foxtrot Delta said:


> if true those are warning flares for intruding aircraft.


Noflares are sent in when u want to save ur arse from enemy fighters



Signalian said:


> Imaginary terms and imaginary logic.


They wer functional but moved backed after phulwama


----------



## BRAVO_

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Of course ....they just forgot to use the delta wing in video
> But that is cool , if India Media says Mirage flew then Mirages flew
> 
> The french will have to accept that Indians have changed the Mirage plane wing design
> 
> View attachment 541846


that is how indian media is making mamoo to its own public by showing the JF-17 firing on and entire indian public is busy in chest thumping watching a paksitani aircraft ...

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## Signalian

enquencher said:


> No


Good, this means you also know this IAF strike was not a strike in reality, nothing happened to JeM.

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## enquencher

Signalian said:


> Good, this means you also know this IAF strike was not a strike in reality, nothing happened to JeM.


Whatever sails ur boat


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## Signalian

enquencher said:


> They wer functional but moved backed after phulwama


And Why not, since its a script after all.

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## monitor

Uri attack : 18 Sep 
Surgical Strike : 30 Sep
Pulwama attack : 14 Feb 
Air Strike :26 Feb 
Indian Military was also fond of Arithmetic Progression.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Indian Tigers .....and Media champs must explain this


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## Ahmet Pasha

All the bollywood, starplus and item songs have corrupted gangu minds and all u can think/dream of are BATs and Launchpads.

Why in so many decades we never got to see these launchpads?? 

Why does every militant on your media upon investigation turn out to be an American cop with photoshopped image??
Or a poor chap who barely has an old Ak and a few mags??Who was driven to pickup arms against u bcz of ur own gao muttar fueled ecstacy???

On the other hand we/our military has found and openly exposed on television how your pro ies operated in our Northwestern tribal areas inc Swat. How they were organized and funded by RAW in synergy with NDS.


monitor said:


> *Omar Abdullah*
> *(@OmarAbdullah)*
> If this is Balakote in KPK it’s a major incursion & a significant strike by IAF planes. However if it’s Balakote in Poonch sector, along the LoC it’s a largely symbolic strike because at this time of the year forward launch pads & militant camps are empty & non-functional

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## infinity73

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to understand that the Paf has acted like a coward for the last 2 decades---.
> 
> It strutted around with their F16's shooting down third rate russian aircraft during the first afghan war in the 80's---now when real enemy fighters are around and doing an incursion---the Paf fighters are nowhere to be seen---.


There are so many versions of what happened that its difficult to ascertain the failure you are referring to. So please tell us in detail what you believe happened highlighting specific failures of PAF. Also ispr tweeted incursion was 3-4 miles so whats your view on that?


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## Signalian

monitor said:


> Uri attack : 18 Sep
> Surgical Strike : 30 Sep
> Pulwama attack : 14 Feb
> Air Strike :26 Feb
> Indian Military was also fond of Arithmetic Progression.


12 is a favorite number, maybe 13 and after 13 it starts to get unlucky ?

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## Ahmet Pasha

We even have an Indian monkey rotting away in some jail. Kulbushan or whatever the fuk his name was.

Nothing but gao mutr fueled rampages


Signalian said:


> Its interesting how Indian politics and Indian Military is influenced through Pakistan.


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## Salza

Lol 1000 kg bombs would had created massive fire balls... And could had been visible from kms away... No such things.. No pictures .. At that moment their govt is silent and waiting for their media to brainwash Indian people for few more hours before issuing a statement

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## Arsalan 345

we should strike.doesn't matter where they struck us.we must respond.if they use precision guided munitions,use the use bomb to target indian military post.

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## pakdefender

indian comedy continues

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## enquencher

Signalian said:


> And Why not, since its a script after all.


Yes same script whic ispr tweeted..iaf did not intrude..dg is under raw payroll and reading Bollywood script.
U are a respected senior member herr..dont come up with childish response..8f u are gaged by isi then dont comment ..dnt let ur creditably low

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## Maxpane




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## HalfMoon



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## Signalian

enquencher said:


> Yes same script whic ispr tweeted..iaf did not intrude..dg is under raw payroll and reading Bollywood script.
> U are a respected senior member herr..dont come up with childish response..8f u are gaged by isi then dont comment ..dnt let ur creditably low


ISPR is no match to Bollywood/Modi/Fake Surgical Strike scripting. 
Thank you for your words, but somehow i need a break also.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

monitor said:


> *IAF strikes in Azad Kashmir LIVE updates: Mirage 2000 jets drop 1,000 kg bombs across LoC; destroys JeM camps*
> *Air Force strikes in Azad Kashmir: A meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security is underway at 7, Lok Kalyan Marg; all air defence systems along the international border and the LoC have been put on high alert.*
> 
> 
> BusinessToday.In New Delhi Last Updated: February 26, 2019 | 10:05 IST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Indian Air Force (IAF) carried out major aerial strikes across LoC in Balakot region in Pakistan.
> *WE RECOMMEND*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nasscom stops guiding annual IT growth; cautiously optimistic for FY20
> 
> 
> 
> Malvinder has recordings of death threats to sign agreement absolving Baba, will make available when required, criminal complaint before EOW claims
> *MORE FROM THE AUTHOR*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Relief for Paytm, Amazon Pay, other mobile wallets! RBI extends deadline for completion of KYC by 6 months
> 
> 
> 
> NIA identifies vehicle used in Pulwama terror attack, owner on the run
> 
> 
> Air Force strikes in Azad Kashmir: In a surprise to Pakistani security forces, the Indian Air Force reportedly dropped around 1,000 kg bombs on Jaish-e-Mohammed terror camps across the Line of Control (LoC) in Muzafarabad sector early morning on Tuesday. Pakistan army spokesperson Major General Asif Ghafoor also confirmed that that the Indian Air Force (IAF) violated the Line of Control (LoC). "Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot," he tweeted, adding that no casualties have been reported so far. ANI also reported: "At 0330 hours on 26th February, a group of Mirage 2000 Indian Fighter jets struck a major terrorist camp across the LoC and completely destroyed it."
> 
> *10.03am: *The Indian Air Force has put on high alert all air defence systems along the international border and LoC to respond to any possible action by Pakistan Air Force, reports ANI.
> 
> *9.51am: *Minister of State for Agriculture and Farmer's Welfare, Gajendra Singh Shekhawat, reiterates dialogue from the recent Bollywood hit Uri: The Surgical Strike. "This is new India, this will enter your home, and kill you too."
> 
> à¤¯à¥‡ à¤®à¥‹à¤¦à¥€ à¤•à¤¾ à¤¹à¤¿à¤‚à¤¦à¥à¤¸à¥à¤¤à¤¾à¤¨ à¤¹à¥ˆ, à¤˜à¤° à¤®à¥‡à¤‚ à¤˜à¥à¤¸à¥‡à¤—à¤¾ à¤à¥€ à¤”à¤° à¤®à¤¾à¤°à¥‡à¤—à¤¾ à¤à¥€,
> 
> Air Force carried out aerial strike early morning today at terror camps across the LoC and Completely destroyed it
> 
> à¤à¤• à¤à¤• à¤•à¤¼à¤¤à¤°à¤¾ à¤–à¤¼à¥‚à¤¨ à¤•à¤¾ à¤¹à¤¿à¤¸à¤¾à¤¬ à¤¹à¥‹à¤—à¤¾ !à¤¯à¥‡ à¤¤à¥‹ à¤à¤• à¤¶à¥à¤°à¥à¤†à¤¤ à¤¹à¥ˆ .. à¤¯à¥‡ à¤¦à¥‡à¤¶ à¤¨à¤¹à¥€à¤‚ à¤à¥à¤•à¤¨à¥‡ à¤¦à¥‚à¤‚à¤—à¤¾...#Balakot#Surgicalstrike2pic.twitter.com/fqYJgWxuqX
> 
> - Gajendra Singh Shekhawat (@gssjodhpur) February 26, 2019
> *9.50am: *Congress leader Abhishek Manu Singhvi says "helter skelter by Pakistan seems like something big has happened".
> 
> Indian Air Force Strikes at Balakot don't have official word yet but the Helter skelter by Pakistan seems like something big has happened. The IAF has gone beyond Azad Kashmir & into Pakistan near their capital while they were busy counting alms received from Saudi & China.
> 
> - Abhishek Singhvi (@DrAMSinghvi) February 26, 2019
> 
> Balakot which is quite far out into the LOC is a deep strike and purportedly where Hafeez Saeed gives a lot of his addresses. If IAF penetrated that deep without casualties it's a highly successful mission.
> 
> - Abhishek Singhvi (@DrAMSinghvi) February 26, 2019
> *9.40am: *Congress President Rahul Gandhi says: "I salute the pilots of the IAF."
> 
> ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡³ I salute the pilots of the IAF. ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡³
> 
> - Rahul Gandhi (@rahulgandhi) February 26, 2019
> *9.39am: *Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh head to meet Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the strikes carried out by the Indian Air Force.
> 
> *9.39am: Where is Balakot in Pakistan: *Balakot, a town in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province in Pakistan, is about 50 km (31 miles) from the Line of Control (LoC), which acts as a de facto border between the two countries that have fought three wars since their independence from British colonial rule in 1947, says Reuters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click here to Enlarge
> 
> 
> 
> *9.30am: *The action comes just 12 days after a CRPF convoy was targeted by a JeM suicide bomber, killing 40 personnel and injuring five others.
> 
> *9.26am: *All terror camps of JeM across Balakot, Chakothi and Muzaffarabad destroyed in Pakistan.
> 
> Indian Mirage fighters destroy Azad Kashmir terror camps: Sources. Live updates #ITLivestreamhttps://t.co/74mCXdRJty
> 
> - India Today (@IndiaToday) February 26, 2019
> *9.25am: *Reports suggest Prime Minister Narendra Modi has been briefed on the air strikes conducted by National Security Advisor Ajit Doval.
> 
> *9.19am: *The government to brief media on the India Air Force strike soon. The government earlier declined to comment on the issue even though the Pakistani side confirmed that India conducted air strikes across LoC in Balakot region in Pakistan.
> 
> *9.09am: *Pakistan army spokesperson Major General Asif Ghafoor confirms the damage done by the Indian Air Force fighter jets.
> 
> Payload of hastily escaping Indian aircrafts fell in open. pic.twitter.com/8drYtNGMsm
> 
> - Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor (@OfficialDGISPR) February 26, 2019
> *9.07am:* As per News18, the Indian Air Force strikes could have caused around 200-300 casualties on the Pakistani side.
> 
> *9.05am: *NC leader and former J&K CM Omar Abdullah lauds the Air Force, says "if this is true this was not a small strike by any stretch of imagination".
> 
> Wow, if this is true this was not a small strike by any stretch of imagination but will wait for official word, should any be forthcoming. https://t.co/bOFt7SXl43
> 
> - Omar Abdullah (@OmarAbdullah) February 26, 2019
> *9.01am: *The government has so far declined to comment on the issue but has also not denied about reports of the Indian Air Force conducting strikes across the Line of Control.
> 
> *9.00am: *As many as 12 Mirage 2000 jets took part in the operation that completely destroyed several terror camps across the Line of Control in Pakistan.
> 
> IAF Sources: 12 Mirage 2000 jets took part in the operation that dropped 1000 Kg bombs on terror camps across LOC, completely destroying it pic.twitter.com/BP3kIrboku
> 
> - ANI (@ani) February 26, 2019
> *8.38am: *Pakistan army spokesperson Major General Asif Ghafoor claims the Indian aircraft intruded into Pakistan from the Muzaffarabad sector.
> 
> Indian aircrafts intruded from Muzafarabad sector. Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot. No casualties or damage.
> 
> - Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor (@OfficialDGISPR) February 26, 2019
> Indian Air Force violated Line of Control. Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back. Details to follow.
> 
> - Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor (@OfficialDGISPR) February 25, 2019*8.20am: *Around 10 Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft strike several terror camps across the LoC.
> IAF Sources: At 0330 hours on 26th February a group of Mirage 2000 Indian Fighter jets struck a major terrorist camp across the LoC
> 
> and completely destroyed it. pic.twitter.com/RlxTJ4e3AF
> 
> - ANI (@ani) February 26, 2019
> Edited by Manoj Sharma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you like this story?
> 
> 
> 
> 50
> 
> 
> 
> 4



Was this retreat the revenge India wanted? What sensationalist nonsense.

LOL.

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## pakdefender

hahahah  @ 1000 bombs

at least keep it a little bit believable


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## manga

khansaheeb said:


> A Babur strike is about to follow.


Ok. expect agni soon then.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Srinagar siachin ladakh leh are Pakistani territory we can always bomb our own territory as well. according to that logic.

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## HalfMoon




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## IFB

Just a few days ago i posted in some thread that modi is a crazy guy he might do some crazy shit just to garner public support this close to election...and this guy is beyond crazy....hope this does not escalate to more blood shed...i can only hope this does not go to full scale war.


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## The BrOkEn HeArT

Foxtrot Delta said:


> what's the point of destroying some open field or training camp ground? they flattened an already flat ground for what? atleast kill some terrorists.


This is how pakistan responded. "India only killed some trees" we can grow it again , so no worries ". 
And most of Pakistanis believing in their lies for face saving bcz they don't have capabilities to counter strike. 
This is how it is gonna end " Pulwama".


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541853




We can put the United nation charter in his rectum together with Geneva convention


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## pakdefender

Forecast for new Delhi tomorrow , cloudy and no chance of rain

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## HalfMoon




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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Arsalan 345 said:


> we should strike.doesn't matter where they struck us.we must respond.if they use precision guided munitions,use the use bomb to target indian military post.


_Arkadash-im_, if the incursion by a 7x larger enemy, whose 700K folks having been remained bogged down for a good many decades, can be contained with 3-4 miles of the border of a disputed territory IMO it's a good deal...

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## MastanKhan

infinity73 said:


> There are so many versions of what happened that its difficult to ascertain the failure you are referring to. So please tell us in detail what you believe happened highlighting specific failures of PAF. Also ispr tweeted incursion was 3-4 miles so whats your view on that?



Hi,

A declaration of war was made by both the sides---'if you did this---we will retaliate without waiting'---.

So---under those conditions---the aircraft from both the sides should have been considered to be in a strike position if they were within 10 miles of the LOC by default---.

But when a large number of aircraft were coming in---they should have been considered offensive within 75-100 miless off the border---.

In this pre declaration of military action from both the sides---an incursion is an act of war.

India has successfully claimed incursion and strike---Paf and its cronies are caught with their pants down in their ankles---.

If the Paf was so strong and the man behind the machine mantra so true---then Iaf aircraft should have been taken out right at the LOC---.

No one can challenge the narrative of the Iaf that they completed their attack successfully---.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I suggest we pack up Kalbhushan's remains in a doggie bag
That man has eaten too many desi ghee roti's in Pakistani custody


@MastanKhan IAF damaged a tree


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## Foxtrot Delta

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541854



yea that' s my understanding too. they never entered pakistani territory


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## The BrOkEn HeArT

IFB said:


> Just a few days ago i posted in some thread that modi is a crazy guy he might do some crazy shit just to garner public support this close to election...and this guy is beyond crazy....hope this does not escalate to more blood shed...i can only hope this does not go to full scale war.


Modi is a brave PM like Indira Gandhi. 
Modi did whatever a brave do after an attack like "Pulwama".


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## Rafi

Will the guys attacking the PAF please put their pea shooters back in their pants. The IAF did not cross the LoC. But when challenged dropped their pants and ran

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## Arsalan 345

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541854





The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> This is how pakistan responded. "India only killed some trees" we can grow it again , so no worries ".
> And most of Pakistanis believing in their lies for face saving bcz they don't have capabilities to counter strike.
> This is how it is gonna end " Pulwama".



dude any strike is a strike.you should wait for response.bbc india says that iaf didn't even cross loc.they used laser bombs.


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## pakdefender

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> A declaration of war was made by both the sides---'if you did this---we will retaliate without waiting'---.
> 
> So---under those conditions---the aircraft from both the sides should have been considered to be in a strike position if they were within 10 miles of the LOC by default---.
> 
> But when a large number of aircraft were coming in---they should have been considered offensive within 75-100 miless off the border---.
> 
> In this pre declaration of military action from both the sides---an incursion is an act of war.
> 
> India has successfully claimed incursion and strike---Paf and its cronies are caught with their pants down in their ankles---.
> 
> If the Paf was so strong and the man behind the machine mantra so true---then Iaf aircraft should have been taken out right at the LOC---.
> 
> No one can challenge the narrative of the Iaf that they completed their attack successfully---.



and exactly what was it that IAF struck ? what is there to back up the claims made


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## Canuck786

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> _Arkadash-im_, if the incursion by a 7x larger enemy, whose 700K folks having been remained bogged down for a good many decades, can be contained with 3-4 miles of the border of a disputed territory IMO it's a good deal...


They went back unharmed after releasing a payload in our territory (even if no losses) should be of concern to us. Because our claims had been much taller than our capability.


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## BRAVO_

does it look like a Mirage 2000??????or am drunk.. can somebody explain me the phenomena


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

monitor said:


> *9.26am: *All terror camps of JeM across Balakot, Chakothi and Muzaffarabad destroyed in Pakistan.



Those latter two strikes are outright lies. The aircraft dropped the payload over forested area above Balakot as ISPR stated.



> *Omar Abdullah*
> *(@OmarAbdullah)*
> If this is Balakote in KPK it’s a major incursion & a significant strike by IAF planes. However if it’s *Balakote in Poonch sector,* along the LoC it’s a largely symbolic strike because at this time of the year forward launch pads & militant camps are empty & non-functional



Balakot/ Bala Kote seems to be a village on LoC which means Indian airforce did not penetrate deeply.

I found this map. It shows Balakote as being inside IOK.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...7dc8e28e2c347d9!8m2!3d33.5021047!4d74.1797766


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## MastanKhan

pakdefender said:


> and what exactly was it that IAF struck ? what is there to back up the claims made



Hi,

it does not make any difference if they struck anything or not---.

They entered pakistan controlled air space---and Paf fighters could not protect their air space---.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

BRAVO_ said:


> indian so called Mirage 2000  ... does it look like a Mirage 2000??????or am dreaming.. can somebody explain me the phenomena



Pure BS propaganda from Indian media.


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## Hareeb

Just a pressure tactic by IAF.

US-Taliban talks have just started in Doha, Qatar on Monday, and surely US would not want an Indo-Pak war at this time or either the peace process will get derailed. In addition, China and Russia are supporting peace talks this time. Thus, a little change in Trmup's tone towards Pakistan.

Moreover, Indian GE are near and Modi got 48 days to change public stance towards BJP, and I am sure a war will do the miracle. Thus, we can expect a short scale Indo-Pak war in J&K region, and I think because of US-Taliban talks, Pak got an extra week to get prepared.


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## Foxtrot Delta

BRAVO_ said:


> does it look like a Mirage 2000??????or am drunk.. can somebody explain me the phenomena



they claim that JF-17 was radar locked after it reached the indian aircraft that intruded, so it started dropping flares to evade in coming missiles.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

BRAVO_ said:


> does it look like a Mirage 2000??????or am drunk.. can somebody explain me the phenomena





You are not dreaming India has no plane in their inventory which looks like that


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

Oh---where is @araz ---just claimed that there would be no war---.


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## Rafi

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Those latter two strikes are outright lies. The aircraft dropped the payload over forested area above Balakot as ISPR stated.
> 
> 
> 
> Balakot/ Bala Kote seems to be a village on LoC which means Indian airforce did not penetrate deeply.
> 
> I found this map. It shows Balakote as being inside IOK.
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...7dc8e28e2c347d9!8m2!3d33.5021047!4d74.1797766



It's right on the border.

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## Arsalan 345

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> it does not make any difference if they struck anything or not---.
> 
> They entered pakistan controlled air space---and Paf fighters could not protect their air space---.



i agree.we must retaliate.it doesn't matter whether they hit a tree or camp.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Canuck786 said:


> They went back unharmed after releasing a payload in our territory (even if no losses) should be of concern to us. Because our claims had been much taller than our capability.


This of course is subjective and relative!!! But, keeping 700K forces bogged down isn't a small feat either!!! With this incursion this fact doesn't get changed...

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## Alpha BeeTee

Rafi said:


> Will the guys attacking the PAF please put their pea shooters back in their pants. The IAF did not cross the LoC. But when challenged dropped their pants and ran


ISPR said they violated airspace (which means crossed). Make up your mind already. Let's not deny facts. Fact at the moment seems that they crossed and hushed back safely. I don't see any embarrassment in that.

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## Falcon26

Rafi said:


> Will the guys attacking the PAF please put their pea shooters back in their pants. The IAF did not cross the LoC. But when challenged dropped their pants and ran



That’s not what your ISPR said. You should take a breather and comment after things cool off. There’s no reason to drag your credibility any further 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318

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## Foxtrot Delta

Alpha BeeTee said:


> ISPR said they violated airspace (which means crossed). Make up your mind already. Let's not deny facts. Fact at the moment seems that they crossed and hushed back safely. I don't see any embarrassment in that.



that's a very likely possibility.


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## pakdefender

Muzaffarabad is not some back of beyond place , its the capital of Azad Kashmir and any such activity will be very visible so if there was indeed ingress and bombing it will be very visible 

So far nothing to see


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## Alpha BeeTee

Ok so the whole idea of revenge was to inflict pain on Pakistan Army rather than expendable militants.
So much for the pain though.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan



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## Arsalan 345

ndtv says that government might release footage of attack.

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## Canuck786

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> This of course is subjective and relative!!! But, keeping 700K forces bogged down isn't a small feat either!!! With this incursion this fact doesn't get changed...


I am too patriotic to speak my feelings.

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## Foxtrot Delta

at those high speeds a few seconds intrusion can happen easily even minutes.


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## Rafi

Falcon26 said:


> That’s not what your ISPR said. You should take a breather and comment after things cool off. There’s no reason to drag your credibility any further
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318



My credibility is not my weiner that it can be dragged. How come you are so excited, we will respond in our own way.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Arsalan 345 said:


> ndtv says that they will release footage of attack.



lets hope this time they really do give footage. but indian media mostly cooks stuff up. indian airforce if releases the footage im looking forward to it.

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## cleverrider

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Oh---where is that imbecile @araz ---just claimed that there would be no war---.



Let the conspiracies begin


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## Arsalan 345

Foxtrot Delta said:


> lets hope this time they really do give footage. but indian media mostly cooks stuff up. indian airforce if releases the footage im looking forward to it.



my blood is boiling.i am very angry.i can't believe this.

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## BRAVO_

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Oh---where is that imbecile @araz ---just claimed that there would be no war---.


sir,
if the video of an aircraft firing missiles showed in indian news channels is correct then it is clearly not a mirage 2000, seems like JF-17 were chasing them on their way home, can you call it a mirage 2000???

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## YeBeWarned

Mere Aziz hum waton , we just got owned .. gen bajwa


----------



## MastanKhan

BRAVO_ said:


> sir,
> if the video of an aircraft firing missiles showed in indian news channels is correct then it is clearly not a mirage 2000, seems like JF-17 were chasing them on their way home



Hi,

So was their a missile strike---???


----------



## weqi

Cookie Monster said:


> If India had realized that they can attack Pakistani cities and not face a response...then they wouldn't just turn tail and run...they would in fact send in more jets to carry out bombings. Clearly they ran and didn't come back. So now stop chest thumping and be embarrassed of ur bhagora pilots.



 *BHAGORA PILOTS = IAF*


----------



## Enigma_

Have some shame @ Pakistani posters defending the Air Force after this. Good God have a look in the mirror. Delusional idiots.

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## Fieldmarshal

Dg ispr needs to shut the fu€k up.....he talks too much and most of it is crap which is embarrassing to all Pakistan.


----------



## Arsalan 345

Enigma_ said:


> Have some shame @ Pakistani posters defending the Air Force after this. Good God have a look in the mirror. Delusional idiots.



i am not defending.i just want retaliation.where is our response?


----------



## newb3e

we got owned!


----------



## BRAVO_

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> So was their a missile strike---???


obviously ... it was a pre planed and expected strike but the questions is mission of successful or not ???


----------



## Pakistansdefender

Foxtrot Delta said:


> lets hope this time they really do give footage. but indian media mostly cooks stuff up. indian airforce if releases the footage im looking forward to it.


It's all about preception dude.
Everything is based on lies and standing on perception...
They would be successful in make the narrative and their public is hungry for this narrative...
Here our dgispr and airforce failed badly. 
They made the news out of out dgispr words. And while mentioning balakot in kashmir, they must specify it, and now all headlines say balakot in kpk. 
What a mess of reporting... And then why did paf let them come even in 3 miles. Atleast they should have bombed something...
Now they got the perception, they got the narrative, and they would make their castle on lies and you can't stop them.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Arsalan 345 said:


> my blood is boiling.i am very angry.i can't believe this.



we were expecting this. that's why PAF has been flying sorties in past 5 days. im glad indians and pakistaniz are sensible enough to avoid collateral Damage. 

this today's strike was a DUD, it bombed some open fields. they dropped it from with in indian controlled territory or intruded just a few seconds, 2 to 3 miles inside. at those speeds a few seconds can make a difference.

this is nothing to get all boiled up about. but be ready i think a war has started.

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## Levina

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.


Thanks for that one.  
But hey its only terrorists,and no civilians or soldiers.


----------



## Hayreddin

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> it does not make any difference if they struck anything or not---.
> 
> They entered pakistan controlled air space---and Paf fighters could not protect their air space---.



This ia what am unable to comprehend abt these dumb patriots . Even we accept ispr versiin why why paf couldnt shoot down iaf jets . 
These keyboard patriots shld consult any military guy tht what does red alert means frm both sides and outcome of airspace violation during that time .
If have doubt ask paf to do same .airpace violatiin and thn u will see what iaf wld do . 
Indeed a sad day for pakistan


----------



## Arsalan 345

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> So was their a missile strike---???



i think when jf-17 reached near mirage,jf-17 was already on enemy radar lock,possibly from across the border,possibly from another fleet of enemy fighter jet.good strategy by iaf.


----------



## KhalaiMakhlooq

fire the nuke now

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## Enigma_

Arsalan 345 said:


> i am not defending.i just want retaliation.where is our response?


That's what I mean. PAF full of bloody cowards. What kind of idiot tries to portray this as any time of victory? Enemy aircraft comes into your land, goes home unscratched and wow we won!! People have no Brains.

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## Great Janjua

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> it does not make any difference if they struck anything or not---.
> 
> They entered pakistan controlled air space---and Paf fighters could not protect their air space---.


You have lost the plot, if they had bombed something to begin with then I would have challenged PAF's credibility but the Indians managed to drop a fuel tank only 3km inside AJK and retreated that's not something extraordinary AJK is narrow am surprised they only managed 3km that too with supposedly 12 fighter and still did not even manage to penetrate far in AJK which is extremely narrow. And keep one thing in mind incursions happen on regular basis from both sides only difference they dropped their fuel tanks in this particular one. It was well planned by the Indian to show to their public we have killed unknown amount of JEM it's nothing but false bravado. PAF is second to none now the only thing is we want to intrude into IB

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## Foxtrot Delta

Pakistansdefender said:


> It's all about preception dude.
> Everything is based on lies and standing on perception...
> They would be successful in make the narrative and their public is hungry for this narrative...
> Here our dgispr and airforce failed badly.
> They made the news out of out dgispr words. And while mentioning balakot in kashmir, they must specify it, and now all headlines say balakot in kpk.
> What a mess of reporting... And then why did paf let them come even in 3 miles. Atleast they should have bombed something...
> Now they got the perception, they got the narrative, and they would make their castle on lies and you can't stop them.



i don't think there are two balakots.


----------



## valkyr_96

Falcon26 said:


> That’s not what your ISPR said. You should take a breather and comment after things cool off. There’s no reason to drag your credibility any further
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318


Meanwhile where are you off to with yours

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346


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## Amigator

I found this on International Media of Indian Air force Mighty Attack

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47366718

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## KhalaiMakhlooq

1 billion Indian lives for a single kashmiri


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Pakistansdefender said:


> It's all about preception dude.
> Everything is based on lies and standing on perception...
> They would be successful in make the narrative and their public is hungry for this narrative...
> Here our dgispr and airforce failed badly.
> They made the news out of out dgispr words. And while mentioning balakot in kashmir, they must specify it, and now all headlines say balakot in kpk.
> What a mess of reporting... And then why did paf let them come even in 3 miles. Atleast they should have bombed something...
> Now they got the perception, they got the narrative, and they would make their castle on lies and you can't stop them.


Maybe the Pak Deep State wants that too...


----------



## Fieldmarshal

Enigma_ said:


> Have some shame @ Pakistani posters defending the Air Force after this. Good God have a look in the mirror. Delusional idiots.



The Indians r them self saying that the ac did not intrude into our ait space n at best according to ispr intruded 3-4 miles, which while flying fast jets is nothing.
PAF did vector ac in the bogeys direction but the hostiles went back.


----------



## Falcon26

valkyr_96 said:


> Meanwhile where are you off to with yours
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346



So at best, you concede 3-4 miles intrusion into your airspace

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## Rakesh

DGISPR should have waited for Indian claims. I think his tweets were premature.


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## Enigma_

Fieldmarshal said:


> The Indians r them self saying that the ac did not intrude into our ait space n at best according to ispr intruded 3-4 miles, which while flying fast jets is nothing.
> PAF did vector ac in the bogeys direction but the hostiles went back.


Why were they able to get so close? Bloody shoot a warning shot at them to warn them but they still have the audacity to come over because they know there will be no retaliation. Why is that so hard to comprehend?


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## Falcon26

Rafi said:


> My credibility is not my weiner that it can be dragged. How come you are so excited, we will respond in our own way.



I am far from excited, I would hate to be excited about something like this. I just don’t like senior members ruining their hard learned reputation like that.

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## Arsalan 345

Foxtrot Delta said:


> we were expecting this. that's why PAF has been flying sorties in past 5 days. im glad indians and pakistaniz are sensible enough to avoid collateral Damage.
> 
> this today's strike was a DUD, it bombed some open fields. they dropped it from with in indian controlled territory or intruded just a few seconds, 2 to 3 miles inside. at those speeds a few seconds can make a difference.
> 
> this is nothing to get all boiled up about. but be ready i think a war has started.



what are you talking about? how can we accept laser guided bombs without any retaliation? problem is ispr said crosses loc which means violation of airspace which is humiliation.dude we must retaliate.this is very humiliating.it doesn't matter if bombs hit tree or open area,problem is they hit us,they hit our area.i am very angry.


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## Amigator

Rakesh said:


> DGISPR should have waited for Indian claims. I think his tweets were premature.


No, I think your whole Media is premature

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## pakdefender

Arsalan 345 said:


> ndtv says that government might release footage of attack.



Looking forward to it


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## Foxtrot Delta

Fieldmarshal said:


> The Indians r them self saying that the ac did not intrude into our ait space n at best according to ispr intruded 3-4 miles, which while flying fast jets is nothing.
> PAF did vector ac in the bogeys direction but the hostiles went back.




*at Mach 2 one second equals 0.45 Miles so ten seconds of flight in full speed mach 2 means 10 seconds u get 4 miles... 

so it was an intrusion of just 10 to 15 seconds. PAF was so fast!!! and ready

means they saw those indian fighters atleast 10 minutes in advcance or atleast 7 minutes since they fly from around islamabad.*

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## Osiris

Indian Government briefing on surgical strikes at 1130 Hrs(IST).

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## Darth Vader

Levina said:


> Thanks for that one.
> But hey its only terrorists,and no civilians or soldiers.


In indian books both are same heck every Pakistani is one

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## Arsalan 345

Osiris said:


> Indian Government briefing on surgical strikes at 1130 Hrs(IST).



i will wait for this briefing.i didn't sleep.things aren't clear here.

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## Great Janjua

Osiris said:


> Indian Government briefing on surgical strikes at 1130 Hrs(IST).


That's how you know it was all planned for the elections well played


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## Silverblaze

Chacha ghafoor either does not know english or he is trying to be funny. Violation of loc tweet came from him. He could have said. Indian attempt to cross the loc thwarted by PAF. Simple!

The question is when they violated the loc why werent they shot down? One day after army chief and air chief meeting this happened.


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## HalfMoon




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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Hayreddin said:


> This ia what am unable to comprehend abt these dumb patriots . Even we accept ispr versiin why why paf couldnt shoot down iaf jets .
> These keyboard patriots shld consult any military guy tht what does red alert means frm both sides and outcome of airspace violation during that time .
> If have doubt ask paf to do same .airpace violatiin and thn u will see what iaf wld do .
> Indeed a sad day for pakistan



So you want us to chase the Indian aircraft into Indian airspace to shoot it down and start a war?

Be rational and calm, the time for war will come when there is a real attack.

Balakot (Bala kote) is in IOK in Poonch district. They did not penetrate far before being spotted and ran back into their airspace.

ISPR should be more exact in its statements.

However, Indians will spin everything if possible, do not believe their lies.

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## Enigma_

IK, PAF full of hot air. Talk the talk but can't walk the walk. Embarrassing imo.


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## Amigator

India walo se kuch nahi ho ga! 45 bande marwa k bhi ye oiltank phenk dete hain. Kuch bara kerna pare ga ISI ko tb ja k kuch dhang ka karen ge


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## Imran Khan

I am enjoying both sides bla bla


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## Enigma_

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> So you want us to chase the Indian aircraft into Indian airspace to shoot it down and start a war?
> 
> Be rational and calm, the time for war will come when there is a real attack.
> 
> Balakot (Bala kote) is in IOK in Poonch district. They did not penetrate far before being spotted and ran back into their airspace.
> 
> ISPR should be more exact in its statements.
> 
> However, Indians will spin everything if possible, do not believe their lies.


Coward. There's already a war between the countries do you not realise that?

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## valkyr_96

Falcon26 said:


> So at best, you concede 3-4 miles intrusion into your airspace


 dude this is not the first time has happened it is quite routine I hate to repeat this but the aircrafts are turning around and not making a beeline it has been discussed here before. Even after the atlantique incident Pakistan has never respond with AA but interception and escort - the same with Russians and americans unfortunately we don't have the same space afforded to the americans


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## Arsalan 345

ani says that....... Pakistani F16s were scrambled to retaliate against IAF Mirage 2000s but turned back due to size of Indian formation. Western Air Command coordinated operation.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Silverblaze said:


> Chacha ghafoor either does not know english or he is trying to be funny. Violation of loc tweet came from him. He could have said. Indian attempt to cross the loc thwarted by PAF. Simple!
> 
> The question is when they violated the loc why werent they shot down? One day after army chief and air chief meeting this happened.



PAF might give you a F-16 and ask you to shoot down intruding who intrude for just 10 to 15 seconds

if they shot them down. they would fall inside indian controleld territory and it would be a huge blunder. 

they would say pakistan came inside india and shot down our fighter aircraft.

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## pakdefender

if the Indian jets were left unchallenged in the air , they would surely have stayed on for longer , which they did not

if they did get challenged in air and no aircraft's were downed it means they left after getting detected and avoided air combat

Indian jets got detected , they were engaged by PAF and Indian jets left

Pakistan 2 india 0

Now its our turn

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## HalfMoon



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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Enigma_ said:


> Why were they able to get so close? Bloody shoot a warning shot at them to warn them but they still have the audacity to come over because they know there will be no retaliation. Why is that so hard to comprehend?



In sha Allah, next aircraft to penetrate our airspace should be shot down immediately.


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## Enigma_

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> In sha Allah, next aircraft to penetrate our airspace should be shot down immediately.


Oh great. There's always 'next time'. Loser talk.

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## Falcon26

valkyr_96 said:


> dude this is not the first time has happened it is quite routine I hate to repeat this but the aircrafts are turning around and not making a beeline it has been discussed here before. Even after the atlantique incident Pakistan has never respond with AA but interception and escort - the same with Russians and americans unfortunately we don't have the same space afforded to the americans



No comment

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## Foxtrot Delta

Arsalan 345 said:


> ani says that....... Pakistani F16s were scrambled to retaliate against IAF Mirage 2000s but turned back due to size of Indian formation. Western Air Command coordinated operation.



that' would suggest our radar's can't see that deep and clear into indian territory. to make our how many aircraft are in formation. 

but yea they could be in very close formation. that would give an illusion of 3 to 4 aircraft if packed closely.


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## pakdefender

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> In sha Allah, next aircraft to penetrate our airspace should be shot down immediately.



Oh yar itna immediately sub kuch nahin hota ... aram aram say piyar piyar sa latay hain , randi ki gand ki khurak ka ilaj hai hamray pass

like I said its our turn now , we will do the needful

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## Maxpane

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> In sha Allah, next aircraft to penetrate our airspace should be shot down immediately.


lol


----------



## Arsalan 345

Foxtrot Delta said:


> PAF might give you a F-16 and ask you to shoot down intruding who intrude for just 10 to 15 seconds
> 
> if they shot them down. they would fall inside indian controleld territory and it would be a huge blunder.
> 
> they would say pakistan came inside india and shot down our fighter aircraft.



sir problem is they hit us.why you care about them if they don't care about our airspace?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Enigma_ said:


> Oh great. There's always 'next time'. Loser talk.



Bhai, relax. We are a disciplined fighting force and our nation is 100% behind our forces. We can choose to be hasty and make mistakes like Indians, but we have always been calculated and deliberate.

When we strike, it will be to take large parts of Kashmir and exact large defeats on India, not fly into enemy's airspace, drop payloads randomly, flee, and claim victory.

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## Silverblaze

Foxtrot Delta said:


> PAF might give you a F-16 and ask you to shoot down intruding who intrude for just 10 to 15 seconds
> 
> if they shot them down. they would fall inside indian controleld territory and it would be a huge blunder.
> 
> they would say pakistan came inside india and shot down our fighter aircraft.



Remember the Atlanque incident in 99 enough said.

Anyways chacha ghafoor needs to work on tweets. Asim Bajwa was so calculated. Never accept violations. The whole narrative has shifted after the tweet.


----------



## Enigma_

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Bhai, relax. We are a disciplined fighting force and our nation is 100% behind our forces. We can choose to be hasty and make mistakes like Indians, but we have always been calculated and deliberate.
> 
> When we strike, it will be to take large parts of Kashmir and exact large defeats on India, not fly into enemy's airspace, drop payloads randomly, flee, and claim victory.


Okay if you say so.


----------



## Ultima Thule

The wheel of time said:


> Oh comeon now, you are talking like a fool now. Perhaps you have no idea of what a flanker is, it will swat f16s like flies. only a foll with a death wish will take a f16 to fight off a flanker. And there is a difference between an enthusiast and a professional. Our air force has evaluated and have rejected the f16 as it does not provide any significant advantage over the existing aircraft of our arsenal.
> 
> And all the countries that you have mentioned are not as powerful militarily as India is, they can do with inferior the aircraft we cannot.


And your MKI its in on drawbacks, it has huge RCS lit by our long range radars/AWACS ones it airborne, Both have a similar range BVR (AMRAAM/R-77) and also it is very maintenance prone jets etc etc @The wheel of time 


Surenas said:


> "Just for reference, I believe the last time the Indian Air Force intentionally and publicly crossed the LoC to conduct strikes was... the 1971 war."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100224585499373568


In 2008 just like same manner you run like coward and our F-16 had taking you raptor of east MKI Pics and shows those pics to military command in middle east @Surenas 


Salza said:


> Khan saab we will only reply if there is Real attack. They tried to sneak in deep but ran after we scrambled jets towards them. Why its so hard for u to understand. This wasn't an attack if was one, than a failed operation.


the major question is why PAF had intercepted those jets in time and drop something in woods as per ISPR claims which i suspect currently from ISPR that they talking truth, its a failure to Pakistani air defense command and as whole for Pakistani armed forces, we talk big but act noting on time @Salza 


infinity73 said:


> There are so many versions of what happened that its difficult to ascertain the failure you are referring to. So please tell us in detail what you believe happened highlighting specific failures of PAF. Also ispr tweeted incursion was 3-4 miles so whats your view on that?


Still consider a failure of Pakistani air defense command an as whole Pakistani armed forces, we talk big, dont act on time @infinity73


pakdefender said:


> and exactly what was it that IAF struck ? what is there to back up the claims made


that not main problems, the problem they penetrates in Pakistani air space and went away, where is the PAF/AWACS/SAMS/Long range radars was sleeping @pakdefender

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## Foxtrot Delta

Arsalan 345 said:


> sir problem is they hit us.why you care about them if they don't care about our airspace?



in war if you are seen as the bad guy. it matters alot. finding out truth can take days... and if you are seen as the evil people you loose everything.

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## pzfz

Desis are dumb. Something dropped off in AJK, not KP, and certainly not in Bala Kote which is actually in IOK. Balakot/Balakote is a very small village just across Poonch city of IOK.

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## HalfMoon




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## CHACHA"G"

*They came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan...…………….. They bombed (whatever) …………. They went back …………. They even had lock on JF-17(who knows) ……….. 
My Question is...……..
Where were our SAM system...….. Where was our Air Defence...….
*
@MastanKhan , @Tps43 , @graphican , @django , @Zarvan , @Imran Khan , @Moonlight , @ghazi52 , @Rafi , @Windjammer , @Yaseen1 , @Path-Finder , @war&peace , @AZADPAKISTAN2009 , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zibago …… @Enigma_

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## valkyr_96

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541866





Silverblaze said:


> Remember the Atlanque incident in 99 enough said.
> 
> Anyways chacha ghafoor needs to work on tweets. Asim Bajwa was so calculated. Never accept violations. The whole narrative has shifted after the tweet.


 dude there has been many violation after the atlantique incident...I will agree only on what Mastan Sb said about we are in a war like State and it should not have happened

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## Enigma_

Just think of it... Imagine if Russia crossed into the US border and went back safely. The US wouldn't even let it come close to its border instead it'll blow it up after a 3rd warning via Radio. I understand that PAF =/= USAF but there's some thing as sovereignty and you as a nation have a right to exercise it.

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## pzfz

Desis are dumb. Something dropped off (not above) ended up in AJK, not KP, and certainly not in Bala Kote which is actually in IOK. Balakot/Balakote is a very small village just across Poonch city of IOK.


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## Silverblaze

HQ-9 must be given a real thought.


----------



## Falcon26

Silverblaze said:


> Remember the Atlanque incident in 99 enough said.
> 
> Anyways chacha ghafoor needs to work on tweets. Asim Bajwa was so calculated. Never accept violations. The whole narrative has shifted after the tweet.



The insane thing is ISPR was the first to report it, but then somehow managed to mess everything up with misleading and confusing information. For hours, people were debating which Balakot was hit. They have no clue about the first thing about public relations. Pathetic all around and now we wait for more tweets about “ we don’t act irresponsibly because we are responsible country” tweets. Right now Pakistani generals are looking like their Syrian and Iraqi colleagues who would fight the facts with brazen lies.

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## Rafi

Falcon26 said:


> I am far from excited, I would hate to be excited about something like this. I just don’t like senior members ruining their hard learned reputation like that.



Don't worry about it. Its all good.


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## Foxtrot Delta

pzfz said:


> Desis are dumb. Something dropped off in AJK, not KP, and certainly not in Bala Kote which is actually in IOK. Balakot/Balakote is a very small village just across Poonch city of IOK.



i don't think there are two balakots.


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## Imran Khan

CHACHA"G" said:


> *They came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan...…………….. They bombed (whatever) …………. They went back …………. They even had lock on JF-17(who knows) ………..
> My Question is...……..
> Where were our SAM system...….. Where was our Air Defence...….
> *
> @MastanKhan , @Tps43 , @graphican , @django , @Zarvan , @Imran Khan , @Moonlight , @ghazi52 , @Rafi , @Windjammer , @Yaseen1 , @Path-Finder , @war&peace , @AZADPAKISTAN2009 , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zibago …… @Enigma_


Sattu pi ker so rahy thy . Ly 80 barish main bheeg ker geela ho gya tha

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## CHACHA"G"

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541868


*I don't believe this (kpk no way)but if this is true then ……. Congratulation...… India.... …….. ………. *


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Indian news making false claims as usual.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Falcon26 said:


> The insane thing is ISPR was the first to report it, but then somehow managed to mess everything up with misleading and confusing information. For hours, people were debating which Balakot was hit. They have no clue about the first thing about public relations. Pathetic all around and now we wait for more tweets about “ we don’t act irresponsibly because we are responsible country” tweets. Right now Pakistani generals are looking like their Syrian and Iraqi colleagues who would fight the facts with brazen lies.



iranians also do that.

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## Falcon26

Foxtrot Delta said:


> iranians also do that.


The Iranians are legends at this.


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## CHACHA"G"

Imran Khan said:


> Sattu pi ker so rahy thy . Ly 80 barish main bheeg ker geela ho gya tha


Our Airforce and our air defence sucks bro...……………. They(indian) claiming they had lock on JF-17 …… If true and they released video , bye bye JF-17 future orders.....

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## GriffinsRule

This thread has been very good at increasing the number of people to include on my ignore list.

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## Silverblaze

ISPR just messed it up. Chacha ghafoor accepted violations and thats it. Miss Asim bajwa


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## pakdefender

The picture released by DG ISPR points towards aircraft carrying dumb payload and not some precision strike munition , from the look of it it seems like it just randomly fell on a bunch of tree

never the less seems like india want to tango , so be it I suppose


----------



## Reichsmarschall

ڈی جی صاحب! انتہائی مودبانہ گذارش ہے کہ گولہ بارود جسے آپ پے لوڈ فرما رہے ہیں۔۔اسے انڈین طیارے گرانے آئے تھے یا واپس باجی کی بارات میں آتش بازی کیلیئے لے جانا چاہتے تھے۔۔
مطلب دشمن کا طیارہ ہمارے ملک میں داخل ہوا۔بمباری کر کے واپس بحفاظت اپنی منزل مقصود پر پہنچ گیا۔۔۔اگر یہ سرجیکل سٹرائیک نہیں ہے تو اور کیا ہے۔۔
آپ کہتے ہیں وہ بھاگ گئے۔۔تو کیا ہوا میں کوئی ہوٹل ہے جس میں وہ صبح تک آپکے جاگنے کا انتظار کرتے

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346


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## HalfMoon

*Surgical Strike 2: Netra AEW&C, Heron drone kept an eye on Pakistan Air Force jets, radars during pre-dawn airstrike on terrorist camps in Azad Kashmir*

*Netra AEW&C, Heron drone kept an eye on Pakistan Air Force jets, radars during #SurgicalStrike2: The Mirage 2000 fighter jets pounded Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camps with 1000 kg laser-guided bombs at 3.30 am and returned to their bases safely even before the enemy aircraft took to the skies. All this was possible due to the presence of Netra AEW&C aircraft and the Heron UAV.*


By

NewsX Bureau
|

Updated
:

26 February 2019,

10:26 AM









File photo of the Airborne Early Warning and Control System Aircraft (AEW&C) Netra.


Netra AEW&C, Heron drone kept an eye on Pakistan Air Force jets, radars during #SurgicalStrike2: Indigenously developed Airborne Early Warning and Control System Aircraft (AEW&C) Netra and Israeli Heron drone played key role during the pre-dawn air strike carried out by the Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter jets on Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camps in Azad Kashmir. The IAF deployed its Netra AEW&C and Heron UAV- which are termed as ‘Eye in the Sky’ – to monitor the movement of Pakistan Air Force jets and anti-aircraft radars installed across the LoC on Tuesday. The Mirage 2000 fighter jets pounded Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camps with 1000 kg laser-guided bombs at 3.30 am and returned to their bases safely even before the enemy aircraft took to the skies. All this was possible due to the presence of Netra AEW&C aircraft and the Heron UAV.

The Indian jets destroyed at least three Alpha 3 Control Rooms rooms of Jaish in Balakot, Chakoti, Muzaffarabad while Pakistan 12 days after the ghastly terror attack in Pulwama. Meanwhile, the Indian Air Force has put on high alert all air defence systems along the international border and LoC to respond to any possible action by Pakistan Air Force. Air force officials are also carrying out an assessment of the damage inflicted on the terror sanctuaries.

*Netra mini-AEW&C*:
The Netra AEW&C system, which has been developed by the DRDO, has an indigenous radar mounted on the Embraer Emb-145 aircraft and teh system gives a 240-degree coverage of airspace. The surveillance aircraft is also equipped with an air-to-air refuelling probe for longer endurance. AWACS can detect and track incoming enemy fighters, cruise missile and drones much before ground-based radars can spot them.

*Heron UAV*:
The IAI Heron is a medium-altitude long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (MALE-UAV) is the modified version of the IAI Heron drone manufactured by the Malat division of Israel Aerospace Industries. The Heron drone can stay airborne up to 52 hours at up to 10.5 km. The UAV can carry different types of sensors, thermographic camera (infrared) and visible-light airborne ground surveillance, intelligence systems (COMINT and ELINT) and various radar systems, totalling up to 250 kg. The Heron also helps the army in target acquisition for artillery guns.


https://www.newsx.com/national/surg...-terrorist-camps-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir


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## Foxtrot Delta

CHACHA"G" said:


> *They came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan...…………….. They bombed (whatever) …………. They went back …………. They even had lock on JF-17(who knows) ………..
> My Question is...……..
> Where were our SAM system...….. Where was our Air Defence...….
> *
> @MastanKhan , @Tps43 , @graphican , @django , @Zarvan , @Imran Khan , @Moonlight , @ghazi52 , @Rafi , @Windjammer , @Yaseen1 , @Path-Finder , @war&peace , @AZADPAKISTAN2009 , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zibago …… @Enigma_



in AJK usually first response is with fighter aircraft. AJK is not like rest of international border because of LOC


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## Silverblaze

If any retaliation. army should pound hindu posts


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## Foxtrot Delta

HalfMoon said:


> *Surgical Strike 2: Netra AEW&C, Heron drone kept an eye on Pakistan Air Force jets, radars during pre-dawn airstrike on terrorist camps in Azad Kashmir*
> 
> *Netra AEW&C, Heron drone kept an eye on Pakistan Air Force jets, radars during #SurgicalStrike2: The Mirage 2000 fighter jets pounded Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camps with 1000 kg laser-guided bombs at 3.30 am and returned to their bases safely even before the enemy aircraft took to the skies. All this was possible due to the presence of Netra AEW&C aircraft and the Heron UAV.*
> 
> 
> By
> 
> NewsX Bureau
> |
> 
> Updated
> :
> 
> 26 February 2019,
> 
> 10:26 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> File photo of the Airborne Early Warning and Control System Aircraft (AEW&C) Netra.
> 
> 
> Netra AEW&C, Heron drone kept an eye on Pakistan Air Force jets, radars during #SurgicalStrike2: Indigenously developed Airborne Early Warning and Control System Aircraft (AEW&C) Netra and Israeli Heron drone played key role during the pre-dawn air strike carried out by the Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter jets on Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camps in Azad Kashmir. The IAF deployed its Netra AEW&C and Heron UAV- which are termed as ‘Eye in the Sky’ – to monitor the movement of Pakistan Air Force jets and anti-aircraft radars installed across the LoC on Tuesday. The Mirage 2000 fighter jets pounded Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camps with 1000 kg laser-guided bombs at 3.30 am and returned to their bases safely even before the enemy aircraft took to the skies. All this was possible due to the presence of Netra AEW&C aircraft and the Heron UAV.
> 
> The Indian jets destroyed at least three Alpha 3 Control Rooms rooms of Jaish in Balakot, Chakoti, Muzaffarabad while Pakistan 12 days after the ghastly terror attack in Pulwama. Meanwhile, the Indian Air Force has put on high alert all air defence systems along the international border and LoC to respond to any possible action by Pakistan Air Force. Air force officials are also carrying out an assessment of the damage inflicted on the terror sanctuaries.
> 
> *Netra mini-AEW&C*:
> The Netra AEW&C system, which has been developed by the DRDO, has an indigenous radar mounted on the Embraer Emb-145 aircraft and teh system gives a 240-degree coverage of airspace. The surveillance aircraft is also equipped with an air-to-air refuelling probe for longer endurance. AWACS can detect and track incoming enemy fighters, cruise missile and drones much before ground-based radars can spot them.
> 
> *Heron UAV*:
> The IAI Heron is a medium-altitude long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (MALE-UAV) is the modified version of the IAI Heron drone manufactured by the Malat division of Israel Aerospace Industries. The Heron drone can stay airborne up to 52 hours at up to 10.5 km. The UAV can carry different types of sensors, thermographic camera (infrared) and visible-light airborne ground surveillance, intelligence systems (COMINT and ELINT) and various radar systems, totalling up to 250 kg. The Heron also helps the army in target acquisition for artillery guns.
> 
> 
> https://www.newsx.com/national/surg...-terrorist-camps-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir





well this version is bullshit i can tell you that froma ll i know so far. even indians will call this bullshit.

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## pzfz

Rafi said:


> It's right on the border.



The Bala Kote referenced is in IOK mendhar/rajouri sector. There is a Balakot village just across Poonch city in AJK just below Muzaffarabad/Uri sector. A/C ingress from Muzaffarabad sector would escape into Poonch sector.

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## HalfMoon




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## Riz

CHACHA"G" said:


> *They came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan...…………….. They bombed (whatever) …………. They went back …………. They even had lock on JF-17(who knows) ………..
> My Question is...……..
> Where were our SAM system...….. Where was our Air Defence...….
> *
> @MastanKhan , @Tps43 , @graphican , @django , @Zarvan , @Imran Khan , @Moonlight , @ghazi52 , @Rafi , @Windjammer , @Yaseen1 , @Path-Finder , @war&peace , @AZADPAKISTAN2009 , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zibago …… @Enigma_


Dont ask about SAMs, we are having sobar airforce look at our beautiful uniforms and luxury jeeps and cars... Why we need SAMs we are nuclear power no one is going to invade us.. But our enemies are allowed to take pictures from the skies of Islamabad.. No problem

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## pzfz

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


>


 Not that Bala Kote. There's a Balakot just north of/across Poonch city of IOK.

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100247880546148354Haha..though its a parody account

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## RPK

Foxtrot Delta said:


> well this version is bullshit i can tell you that froma ll i know so far. even indians will call this bullshit.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100234546467893248


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## Yaseen1

jf17 is not reliable jet better we attain j20 or j31 otherwise buy european or russian jets if u.s not sell us if jf17 was really locked on by indians it is a matter of consideration for paf to rethink this jet production


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## pzfz

Foxtrot Delta said:


> i don't think there are two balakots.



There are (at least) 3. Balakot KP, Balakot/Balakote AJK, and Bala Kote IOK.


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## Foxtrot Delta

pzfz said:


> There are (at least) 3. Balakot KP, Balakot/Balakote AJK, and Bala Kote IOK.


can't find more than one on map


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## Maxpane

Imran Khan said:


> Sattu pi ker so rahy thy . Ly 80 barish main bheeg ker geela ho gya tha


sir agree. rain ho rahi thi pata nahn chala . hamare f 16 bhegne ki waja se ur nahn paye


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## pzfz

Rafi said:


> Will the guys attacking the PAF please put their pea shooters back in their pants. The IAF did not cross the LoC. But when challenged dropped their pants and ran


The confusion is all on ISPR. Those attacking PAF will be incessant nags regardless.

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## Foxtrot Delta

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100234546467893248



i meant the part where they claim PAF wasn't even in the skies and they were already safe and back on airfields.


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## Arsalan 345

Foxtrot Delta said:


> that' would suggest our radar's can't see that deep and clear into indian territory. to make our how many aircraft are in formation.
> 
> but yea they could be in very close formation. that would give an illusion of 3 to 4 aircraft if packed closely.



i think they use terrain to hide themselves.yes in tight formation and when jf-17 reached near mirage,it was already radar lock by some other fighter jet near border.


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## pzfz

Foxtrot Delta said:


> can't find more than one on map



Bala Kote (IOK) is already on a map. As is Balakot KP. Balakot village in AJK is barely a village. It's there.

Regions where Pahari/Potohari/Hindko are spoken there are bound to be endless number of places named Balakot or a variation thereof.

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## Ali0625

heard right now, according to India tv, uav downed by iaf .


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## Foxtrot Delta

Arsalan 345 said:


> i think they use terrain to hide themselves.yes in tight formation and when jf-17 reached near mirage,it was already radar lock by some other fighter jet near border.



we don't even know if JF-17 was ever scrambled. that video on indian tv channel could be something from an excercise. who was making that video in the mountains of LOC? and that close he could see the aircraft up close and persoanal.

that video isn't of today i think. also i think F-16 was scrambled not jF-17


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## I.R.A

Jackdaws said:


> Sounds like Pak will be baying for blood now?



It cannot be Balakot in KPK, there is a place in Azad Kashmir that is also called Balakot. indian jets entering Balakot KPK Pakistan, undetected and unchallenged is highly unlikely ..... we have PMA right next to it and you don't expect Pakistanis to be that careless and unaware, we have been flying loaded jets for last week or so in almost all cities continuously, so we knew already that you are interested in an aerial incursion. 

And if that has happened, entering Balakot in KPK Pakistan (which didn't) then there is no way Pakistan can afford not to respond ..... because you just dropped whatever in Pakistani territory. Balakot near LOC i.e. Balakot of AJK makes more sense rather than Balakot of KPK Pakistan.

People are just making ridiculous claims without even paying attention to the details ...... in fact ignorant Pakistani members here are helping the indian media to make huge claims.

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## Arsalan 345

Foxtrot Delta said:


> we don't even know if JF-17 was ever scrambled. that video on indian tv channel could be something from an excercise. who was making that video in the mountains of LOC? and that close he could see the aircraft up close and persoanal.
> 
> that video isn't of today i think. also i think F-16 was scrambled not jF-17



yes true but point is there were other jets as well across border protecting fleet of mirage.


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## Hayreddin

CHACHA"G" said:


> *They came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan...…………….. They bombed (whatever) …………. They went back …………. They even had lock on JF-17(who knows) ………..
> My Question is...……..
> Where were our SAM system...….. Where was our Air Defence...….
> *
> @MastanKhan , @Tps43 , @graphican , @django , @Zarvan , @Imran Khan , @Moonlight , @ghazi52 , @Rafi , @Windjammer , @Yaseen1 , @Path-Finder , @war&peace , @AZADPAKISTAN2009 , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zibago …… @Enigma_



We dont have one .....
Current air defence system is only protecting major cities .thats it .....
They never opted for long range san system and hence there is the outcome.

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## pakdefender

So where exactly are the targets that india has supposedly taken out ? All of Azad Kashmir is accessible unlike indian occupied Kashmir

just like last time's bluff , this latest drama will be easy to expose , if there were 1000 pound bombs that were being dropped ( as claimed by india ) then it will be easy to verify on ground by any regular joe from that area.


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## Sabretooth

One positive outcome of this whole fiasco would be that things will now calm down reducing the prospect of war since Modi saved face. Al least precious lives will be saved on both sides. Let's live to fight another day. 

ISPR should take care while issuing official statements because masses are asses. Such blunders give chance to India to spin fairy tales and cause unnecessary stress for the whole nation putting them in a difficult situation against the enemy propaganda and defending our claims becomes a losing fight. In the geopolitical arena, it's all about how the world perceives an event or course of action.

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## HalfMoon




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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

I.R.A said:


> Balakot near LOC i.e. Balakot of AJK makes more sense



Yes, I think you are right. Many people are confused because of ISPR. They should be specific.

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## Usamafarooqi99

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.



we dont follow zee news, sorry


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## Ryuzaki

BBC Urdu is reporting people around Balakot and Mansehra heard explosions, called police stations between 3-4 am to check for information. The area is reportedly under a high-alert and a search operation is underway.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100249302448906240


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## Foxtrot Delta

Arsalan 345 said:


> yes true but point is there were other jets as well across border protecting fleet of mirage.


mirage is multirole. if there were 12 half of them could be air to ground configured and half of them 6 can be air to air confgured. mirage can defend itself

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## pakdefender

India can do these face saving shenanigans , its not going to change the on ground reality that all of Kashmir will be Azad Kashmir very soon , Insha Allah

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## I.R.A

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Yes, I think you are right. Many people are confused because of ISPR. They should be specific.



I hope Mohtaram Asif Ghafoor sb takes a timely notice of the confusion his tweets created. He should have been careful and more specific, he is not expected to make such blunders during such situations.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Sabretooth said:


> One positive outcome of this whole fiasco would be that things will now calm down reducing the prospect of war since Modi saved face. Al least precious lives will be saved on both sides. Let's live to fight another day.



I don't think it will calm down soon (Allahu alim.)

We thought so the first time when Modi made some positive statements on Imran Khan in Rajastan.

This ambiguous attack/dropped payload will not satisfy the Indian populace, no matter how much propaganda Indian media spins into it.

There will be more incursions and perhaps a major skirmish.

Pakistan needs to be on heightened alert and not allow any more lapses. India must do something or Indians will lynch Modi in the elections.

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## Riz

Silverblaze said:


> HQ-9 must be given a real thought.


Bro.. Believe me there is nothing in our inventory which makes us proud... This attack was not surprising, they were trying to intrude from the past 5 days. And the attack was 101% confirmed in kashmir only.. If we were that much sure then where the fukk was air defence, manpads etc? And if God forbid they managed to reach balakot kpk then entire force chiefs should resign, or the govt should ask them to resign by any means

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## Silverblaze

Fall outs will be constant problem for PM khan


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541870
> 
> 
> View attachment 541872
> 
> 
> View attachment 541871



Bogus. We have no reason to hide your strikes. ISPR is transparent about it.

There is a dropped payload, nothing more.


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## Mahmood uz Zaman

WELL DONE PAF ..WELL DONE PAKISTAN ARMY..
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD


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## KhalaiMakhlooq

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I don't think it will calm down soon (Allahu alim.)



The order authorised first-strike, preemptive and retaliation attacks (but not nuclear). WHY has pakistan allowed india to do this. WE SHOULD immediately authorise use of nuclear weapons. DELHI


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## Ryuzaki

Pakistani drone shot down in Kutch region













__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100272102790303744


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## pakdefender

Ryuzaki said:


> BBC Urdu is reporting people around Balakot and Mansehra heard explosions, called police stations between 3-4 am to check for information. The area is reportedly under a high-alert and a search operation is underway.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100249302448906240



So if india had to do "SirJiKal strike2" then it means "SirJiKal strike1" was a failure ?


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## Arsalan 345

Foxtrot Delta said:


> mirage is multirole. if there were 12 half of them could be air to ground configured and half of them 6 can be air to air confgured. mirage can defend itself



i personally believe that another fleet was protecting mirages from somewhere else,may be mig-29s.


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## Silverblaze

Riz said:


> Bro.. Believe me there is nothing in our inventory which makes us proud... This attack was not surprising, they were trying to intrude from the past 5 days. And the attack was 101% confirmed in kashmir only.. If we were that much sure then where the fukk was air defence, manpads etc? And if God forbid they managed to reach balakot kpk then entire force chiefs should resign, or the govt should ask them to resign by any means



True, sometimes one wonder is nuclear deterrent has outlived its usefulness. Iran has proved that just by missiles it can deter. Turkey has also provedn. 

When siachen happened, Pakistan was technically a nuclear power. Serious conventional strength is needed.

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## CHACHA"G"

Shah Mehmud Qurashi said …….. This is line of control Violation ……… LMAO ……….. lol they attacked ………. He also said Pakistan ko Bharat maat lalkaray…………. LMAO …… lol they came ……. they bombed …….. they gone...…. 
*Now be a man and response or Just shut the fuckup...…..
Just watch Pakistani Media …………. Almost no reporting ……… they are not giving this airtime...…. \AND they are saying Pakistan "Sabar Tahaml Ka muzahira karay"*

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## khansaheeb

pakdefender said:


> Forecast for new Delhi tomorrow , cloudy and no chance of rain
> 
> View attachment 541856



Lol, This will make Indians a little active.


----------



## Dazzler




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## Mahmood uz Zaman

WELL DONE PAF ..WELL DONE PAKISTAN ARMY..
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD


----------



## Jackdaws

KhalaiMakhlooq said:


> The order authorised first-strike, preemptive and retaliation attacks (but not nuclear). WHY has pakistan allowed india to do this. WE SHOULD immediately authorise use of nuclear weapons. DELHI


Cause India won't use nukes then.


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## Maxpane

b c we have lost our dignity


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## Champion_Usmani

They came in, bombed our territory (even if, at empty area), and ran away unharmed?? ? how??
its an act of war. Period


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## Jackdaws

Arsalan 345 said:


> i personally believe that another fleet was protecting mirages from somewhere else,may be mig-29s.


It was Migs.

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## SorryNotSorry

All these news items seem to add up to airstrikes. IAF dominated the encounter.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Ryuzaki said:


> Pakistani drone shot down in Kutch region
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100272102790303744



False unless confirmed by ISPR.


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## TOPGUN

Coward and pathetic nation always trying BS !!!!


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## Silverblaze

media narrative mishandled by ISPR. First created confusion on balakot and then admitting loc violations. Miss Asim Bajwa.


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## Arsalan 345

Jackdaws said:


> It was Migs.



yes i believe in this theory.


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## Handshake

300 kilo in kashmir kills 40 indian army.
1000 kg in pakistan no casualty.
Indians fooled again by modi.

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## Jackdaws

Silverblaze said:


> media narrative mishandled by ISPR. First created confusion on balakot and then admitting loc violations. Miss Asim Bajwa.


Who is she?

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## Khaqan Humayun

Starlord said:


> they run back, like always ..


Dear Brother & Sisters.
We as Muslims must not take it granted. Today they have killed our trees tomorrow they can kill our civilian people near border.
Question is Why didn't we shot down the jets?
Air defense was unable to stop them, this is Question Mark.
India will attack again we must not allow them to attack again.

Suppose in that open area of Balakot if there were any house of civilian what would happen to them.
Thanks to Allah it was a open area.

Why are we happy?
They have crossed LOC. and our Guns are silence why.
If someone come into your house and steal your dustbin will you be happy on that??? 
1st you will think how did he come?
2nd you will check the lock, why they were unable to protect you.

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100273373949521921


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## Arsalan 345

i will watch the live briefing.let me see the details.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

SorryNotSorry said:


> All these news items seem to add up to airstrikes. IAF dominated the encounter.



You are reading sensationalist rhetoric. Pakistan momentary lapse allowed IAF jets into Pakistan airspace, then when spotted they withdrew, dropping payload (not bombing anything.)

There are no JeM camps in Pakistan. LoC is impregnable by non-state actors.

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## infinity73

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> A declaration of war was made by both the sides---'if you did this---we will retaliate without waiting'---.
> 
> So---under those conditions---the aircraft from both the sides should have been considered to be in a strike position if they were within 10 miles of the LOC by default---.
> 
> But when a large number of aircraft were coming in---they should have been considered offensive within 75-100 miless off the border---.
> 
> In this pre declaration of military action from both the sides---an incursion is an act of war.
> 
> India has successfully claimed incursion and strike---Paf and its cronies are caught with their pants down in their ankles---.
> 
> If the Paf was so strong and the man behind the machine mantra so true---then Iaf aircraft should have been taken out right at the LOC---.
> 
> No one can challenge the narrative of the Iaf that they completed their attack successfully---.


We don't know yet how many aircraft there were. Reports from previous days suggest both airforces were flying close to the border at times. DG ISPR says incursion was 3-4 miles. PAF jets must have been near to the IAF jets if they dropped the payload and went back. But of course it depends whether you believe it or not - and by extension to what extent you believe the Indian narrative. 
We promised to retaliate if there was an attack. I think its clear nothing was hit. There was simply an incursion. In the end what you are complaining is if PAF was aggressive enough or not to have chased the jets back into Indian territory. Also do you have any information about the time IAF jets were in our territory?

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## Novice09

Arsalan 345 said:


> i personally believe that another fleet was protecting mirages from somewhere else,may be mig-29s.



May be Su 30 MKI...


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100273373949521921



It will be about how did an incursion happen in the first place, even if payload is dropped in a forest. This is Pakistani airspace.

Your claims of attacks are rubbish.

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## Great Janjua

We should declare war time to end this Indian false bravado and end the subcontinent at least we shall have no more bickering hindus in the world it's now or never

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## Sabretooth

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> This ambiguous attack/dropped payload



I may be reaching but I find the timing of Nawaz Sharif's bail plea rejection and this touch-and-go incursion suspicious diversion. That bald douche have friends in high places and comes to his rescue whenever he is in a tight spot.

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## Dazzler

Two MLUs got Migs locked, they ran away in panic and released the "DUMB" payload in a hurry while escaping. Payload released in a hurry and fell in no man's land, clearly visible in the video. indian media as usual in propaganda mode.

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## Novice09

Arsalan 345 said:


> i personally believe that another fleet was protecting mirages from somewhere else,may be mig-29s.



May be Su 30 MKI...


----------



## Khaqan Humayun

Handshake said:


> 300 kilo in kashmir kills 40 indian army.
> 1000 kg in pakistan no casualty.
> Indians fooled again by modi.


Plastic bomb Dear. Made in India.


----------



## Wrath

HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541868


 Jani [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16] . Don't be so emotional .


----------



## pakdefender

khansaheeb said:


> Lol, This will make Indians a little active.



give suggestions what would be good targets , I've picked a few for 8 nuclear strikes

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## Jackdaws

Khaqan Humayun said:


> Dear Brother & Sisters.
> We as Muslims must not take it granted. Today they have killed our trees tomorrow they can kill our civilian people near border.
> Question is Why didn't we shot down the jets?
> Air defense was unable to stop them, this is Question Mark.
> India will attack again we must not allow them to attack again.
> 
> Suppose in that open area of Balakot if there were any house of civilian what would happen to them.
> Thanks to Allah it was a open area.
> 
> Why are we happy?
> They have crossed LOC. and our Guns are silence why.
> If someone come into your house and steal your dustbin will you be happy on that???
> 1st you will think how did he come?
> 2nd you will check the lock, why they were unable to protect you.


How do you know some of the Indian pilots wouldn't have been Muslims? Don't make it about religion all the time.


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## SorryNotSorry

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> You are reading sensationalist rhetoric. Pakistan momentary lapse allowed IAF jets into Pakistan airspace, then when spotted they withdrew, dropping payload (not bombing anything.)
> 
> There are no JeM camps in Pakistan. LoC is impregnable by non-state actors.



I think we’ll have a clearer picture as more news comes out. 

Whatever happens, I hope no innocents get hurt. That’s all I hope.


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## I.R.A

@Jackdaws one more thing attacking Balakot in KPK Pakistan is not attacking Pakistan only, its threatening other countries as well, coz PMA doesn't house Pakistani cadets only, there are other nationalities as well, and some serious ones which india cannot afford to threaten at all.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Great Janjua said:


> We should declare war time to end this Indian false bravado and end the subcontinent at least we shall have no more bickering hindus in the world it's now or never



In sha Allah, time will come.

For now let's focus on our economy, alliances, and defenses.

It is possible India will collapse on its own at the rate its going, we can just deal with that aftermath.

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## Jackdaws

Novice09 said:


> May be Su 30 MKI...



I stand corrected. They were Sukhois. 

@Arsalan 345

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## untitled

Dazzler said:


> Two MLUs got Migs locked, t


But their media saying that the jets were Mirage 2000s


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## Ultima Thule

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> You are reading sensationalist rhetoric. Pakistan momentary lapse allowed IAF jets into Pakistan airspace, then when spotted they withdrew, dropping payload (not bombing anything.)
> 
> There are no JeM camps in Pakistan. LoC is impregnable by non-state actors.


This is only just you assumptions/wishful thinking and big shame/humiliation on/for PAF/ air defense units of Pakistan @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

SorryNotSorry said:


> I think we’ll have a clearer picture as more news comes out.
> 
> Whatever happens, I hope no innocents get hurt. That’s all I hope.



No one was injured, just some shrubs and trees.


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## Jackdaws

I.R.A said:


> @Jackdaws one more thing attacking Balakot in KPK Pakistan is not attacking Pakistan only, its threatening other countries as well, coz PMA doesn't house Pakistani cadets only, there are other nationalities as well, and some serious ones which india cannot afford to threaten at all.


Correct. It was some Pak journalist named Zaidi who first said KPK was attacked. Indian media picked up on it.

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## GriffinsRule

member.exe said:


> But their media saying that the jets were Mirage 2000s


Only a fool would believe in their media


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## Great Janjua

enquencher said:


> Mard e momin go n watch psl


Jatt di khadke ni thu vekhi chuhay

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## IFB

Handshake said:


> 300 kilo in kashmir kills 40 indian army.
> 1000 kg in pakistan *no casualty.*
> Indians fooled again by modi.



Modiji is happily sitting in his bungalow saying "who cares"....i have said it few days back...This recent terror attack if modi handles it correctly and pleases the masses by any means...this close to the election he gains tremendously in the coming election...for that he had to do some crazy shit...and he did exactly that...now its all upto paid up indian media to spread modiji's narrative for the masses...and indian media is expert in that department...in response pakistan has 2 options...conventional and other is using its proxies to retaliate...and retaliate by any means it must...to save face...if it chooses the second option and more blood is shed on this side of the border...then its like festive season for modiji...he will again use this fully to his advantage we the common people of india are not that hard to fool...before you know it he is re elected...maybe next time he might actually start a war who knows...he is totally unpredictable.


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## SleeveofWizard

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Bogus. We have no reason to hide your strikes. ISPR is transparent about it.
> 
> There is a dropped payload, nothing more.



Yeah, they went all the way to Balakot KPK to drop a dummy payload.

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## Khaqan Humayun

I'm not happy we must have shot down one or two jets.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

pakistanipower said:


> This is only just you assumptions/wishful thinking and big shame/humiliation on/for PAF/ air defense units of Pakistan @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan



It's ok. We can afford this shame for now and work to be better prepared next time.

Alhamdulilah no one is injured and Indian claims of JeM nonsense has been proven false.

PMIK will deal with it like a true leader. Pakistan will not fall here.

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## BERKEKHAN2

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...ujarat-border-this-morning-1465145-2019-02-26

Indeed a bad day for Pakistan


----------



## I.R.A

Jackdaws said:


> Correct. It was some Pak journalist named Zaidi who first said KPK was attacked. Indian media picked up on it.
> View attachment 541880



That's why I said ignorant Pakistanis are just providing material for indian media to make huge claims. I am from that area and given the strategic nature of that area ..... its highly unlikely and don't mind if I say impossible. Given how quickly the whole thing deescalated without any side claiming victory or damage is sufficient enough to confirm that it happened very close to LOC .... where each side can claim whatever it wants for face saving.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Handshake said:


> 300 kilo in kashmir kills 40 indian army.
> 1000 kg in pakistan no casualty.
> Indians fooled again by modi.



I really like this kind of revenge. I want more of it.

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## Khaqan Humayun

SleeveofWizard said:


> Yeah, they went all the way to Balakot KPK to drop a dummy payload.


Ask your pilot to show if they have destroyed any thing.
Dear this is advanced era you will have to prove. because you said you have destroyed.

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## Salza

No statement from Indian armed forces yet. Its been 8 hours now. Leaving everything to their propagandist and fake media to brain wash these desperate Indians.

Clearly, a failed operation. Good job by PAF just remain vigilant as they will try to attack again after this failure.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Storm bombardier said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...ujarat-border-this-morning-1465145-2019-02-26
> 
> Indeed a bad day for Pakistan
> View attachment 541882



Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon. We salute our shuhada. They will gain firdos e aala, while yours will burn in Jahannum.

A very good day.

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## Khatri_pune

Storm bombardier said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...ujarat-border-this-morning-1465145-2019-02-26
> 
> Indeed a bad day for Pakistan
> View attachment 541882



Indian is paying back in their own coins.....
beware what you wish for......

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## pakdefender

20+ nuclear strikes , these would be real strategic strikes with aim to cut off major arteries and free Kashmir once and for all


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## lightoftruth

We just called the Bluff, Boom.


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## Cookie Monster

Rakesh said:


> DGISPR should have waited for Indian claims. I think his tweets were premature.


If they tweeted before India said anything...
Indian response = premature tweet

If they tweeted after India made tall claims...
Indian response = damage control

U guys are set in ur ways...fully convinced of a certain narrative no matter the proof. Pakistan showed proof(pictures of where the payload fell)...u guys didn't and yet all of u r convinced of "destruction of terrorist launchpads"...
I still don't even know wtf "terrorist launchpads" even mean.


Foxtrot Delta said:


> *at Mach 2 one second equals 0.45 Miles so ten seconds of flight in full speed mach 2 means 10 seconds u get 4 miles...
> 
> so it was an intrusion of just 10 to 15 seconds. PAF was so fast!!! and ready
> 
> means they saw those indian fighters atleast 10 minutes in advcance or atleast 7 minutes since they fly from around islamabad.*


Fighter jets usually don't head towards their targets into enemy airspace at Mach 2. Most fighter jets in the world today and all of IAF fighter jets don't have supercruise capability, which means u have to use afterburners to fly at supersonic speeds. Afterburners use up a lot of fuel and such use of afterburners to fly at supersonic speeds is usually reserved for when u r speeding away from interceptors, or BVR, or just trying to exit safely after a mission, etc.


HalfMoon said:


> View attachment 541866


Wtf? F16s were scrambled and turned back due to size of IAF formation? 

If IAF fighter jets are detected violating Pak airspace...it's most likely ground radars that are the first to detect such activity since they have the longest range. These radars can usually ascertain the size of enemy formation and therefore PAF would deploy its own assets accordingly in the first place. Since when do air forces around the world intercept enemy airforce only to visually find out how many enemy jets are there and then form a second response accordingly.

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## Ultima Thule

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> No one was injured, just some shrubs and trees.


its still humiliation/same for Pakistan armed forces that enemy intrude your airspace drop some bombs and went home safely, whether you like it or not @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan


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## Arsalan 345

paf didn't respond.it's a new low.now we are somalia.shame and humiliation for us today.i hope we will learn lessons from this.

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## SleeveofWizard

Khaqan Humayun said:


> Ask your pilot to show if they have destroyed any thing.
> Dear this is advanced era you will have to prove. because you said you have destroyed.



If they reached as far as KPK, it is more than likely they destroyed a lot. Reaching there and getting back was the hard part, dropping bombs is not that hard.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Jackdaws said:


> Seems Masood Azhar's brother was leading the camp struck. India says "non military" camp struck.



LOL. I like how we get news piecemeal from India. They add on more details like soap opera every minute. lol.

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## Khaqan Humayun

Jackdaws said:


> Seems Masood Azhar's brother was leading the camp struck. India says "non military" camp struck.



Ask your IAF: Have they killed Masood Azhar or his brother?


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

SleeveofWizard said:


> If they reached as far as KPK, it is more than likely they destroyed a lot. Reaching there and getting back was the hard part, dropping bombs is not that hard.



They didn't.

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## Sugarcane

Riz said:


> Bro.. Believe me there is nothing in our inventory which makes us proud... This attack was not surprising, they were trying to intrude from the past 5 days. And the attack was 101% confirmed in kashmir only.. If we were that much sure then where the fukk was air defence, manpads etc? And if God forbid they managed to reach balakot kpk then entire force chiefs should resign, or the govt should ask them to resign by any means



Circus lions of PAF has been embarrassment in last two decades. They were sleeping in Abbottabad, they were sleeping when American choppers where bombing Pakistani post for hours, they were sleeping when terrorist destroyed expensive jets inside their base, Now they were sleep in so called state of "high alert" that Indian jets crossed over and went after dropping payload in "open field" (As if that "open field" was not part of Pakistan). And idiotic knee jerk tweets (or maybe calculated to save circus lions) of ISPR even closed the door of any retaliatory strikes.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Khatri_pune said:


> Indian is paying back in their own coins.....
> beware what you wish for......



Our dozen trees were worth more than 44 occupiers.

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## Imran Khan

Arsalan 345 said:


> paf didn't respond.it's a new low.now we are somalia.shame and humiliation for us today.i hope we will learn lessons from this.


Bus ker de bhai mard e momen ki pant na utaar

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## pakdefender

lightoftruth said:


> We just called the Bluff, Boom.



that boom was actually the sound coming from your other end


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## Max

The thing is bharati violated our air space, they dropped payload, now ball is in our court, if they dropped 1000KG payload in jungle. we should drop 2000 in their jungle near IOC..

Indian Foreign ministry is naming area of Balakot (Azad Kashmir) unlike fake SirGkal Strike where they were not even able to tell what happened and where happened.. so take media in the area as first step.

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## Jackdaws

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> LOL. I like how we get news piecemeal from India. They add on more details like soap opera every minute. lol.


Chalo good. Congrats on your success.


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## pakdefender

Jackdaws said:


> Seems Masood Azhar's brother was leading the camp struck. India says "non military" camp struck.



Video or it didn't happen

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## Khaqan Humayun

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.


Hahahahah.....You are right.......

Ab Pakistan tarsy ga Lal Lal Tematar ko... like this.

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## Jackdaws

Khaqan Humayun said:


> Ask your IAF: Have they killed Masood Azhar or his brother?


Yusuf Azhar. Whoever he is.

And Pak FM has said there will be retaliation.


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## pakdefender

Script for next Bollywood movie already being written as we speak

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## lightoftruth

pakdefender said:


> that boom was actually the sound coming from your other end


Cute,ask Paf what sound it was.


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## StandForInsaf

A payload has been dropped in on our soil by indian air force where is our response ?

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## Arsalan 345

Imran Khan said:


> Bus ker de bhai mard e momen ki pant na utaar



sir they hit us,india hit us,our enemy hit us and we didn't respond.it will set a new pattern for more future air strikes of india.we allowed americans to hit us,now we allowed indians.what a shame!

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## abdulbarijan

ISPR needs to organize another visit of reporters/ international media and take them to the areas where the payload was dropped. Additionally they also need to take the media to the supposed areas the IAF targeted. This is the easiest possible route to establish credibility and reject the claims of the enemy.

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## CHACHA"G"

Hayreddin said:


> We dont have one .....
> Current air defence system is only protecting major cities .thats it .....
> They never opted for long range san system and hence there is the outcome.


What about MANPADS...….. shoulder launch system.....


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## Zarvan

abdulbarijan said:


> ISPR needs to organize another visit of reporters/ international media and take them to the areas where the payload was dropped. Additionally they also need to take the media to the supposed areas the IAF targeted. This is the easiest possible route to establish credibility and reject the claims of the enemy.


THAT WOULD BE DONE

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## Silverblaze

Lets see what Imran khan sending give peace a chance walay has to say.


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## Reichsmarschall

Jackdaws said:


> View attachment 541817
> 
> 
> Sounds like Pak will be baying for blood now?


Will accept nothing less than nuclear strike on kerala


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## KRAIT

Ghus to gaye naa....And like 1971, ISPR don't acknowledge anything and dont tell public about failure until its all over.


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## Ultima Thule

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> It's ok. We can afford this shame for now and work to be better prepared next time.
> 
> Alhamdulilah no one is injured and Indian claims of JeM nonsense has been proven false.
> 
> PMIK will deal with it like a true leader. Pakistan will not fall here.


We talk tall, act nothing in time, this is humiliations for Pakistani armed forces that in such tense moments they not react in time, how can even imagine any sovereign country to allow that enemy jets intrudes yours airspace drop some bombs whether it harmful or not for public and property, Its real failure to PAF and air defense command @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

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## Silverblaze

People do not understand. The media handling has to be top notch. Chacha ghafoor is not fit for the job.


----------



## infinity73

Thats BBC...


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## Wrath

Jackdaws said:


> Who is she?


Hahaha .... It's we miss Major General Asim Bajwa ......

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## Arsalan 345

pakistanipower said:


> We talk tall, act nothing in time, this is humiliations for Pakistani armed forces that in such tense moments they not react in time, how can even imagine any sovereign country to allow that enemy jets intrudes yours airspace drop some bombs whether it harmful or not for public and property, Its real failure to PAF and air defense command @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan



saddest day of my life.

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## Maxpane

pakistanipower said:


> We talk tall, act nothing in time, this is humiliations for Pakistani armed forces that in such tense moments they not react in time, how can even imagine any sovereign country to allow that enemy jets intrudes yours airspace drop some bombs whether it harmful or not for public and property, Its real failure to PAF and air defense command @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan


we just accept Indian dominance and be act like bangladesh . we have lost dignity

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## Silverblaze

KRAIT said:


> Ghus to gaye naa....And like 1971, ISPR don't acknowledge anything and dont tell public about failure until its all over.



If its true that india carried out strikes and PAF did nothing, response will be there either conventional or sub conventional.


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## Arsalan 345

Maxpane said:


> we just accept Indian dominance and be act like bangladesh . we have lost dignity



we lost pride.we should retaliate otherwise accept indian dominance.

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## Canuck786

abdulbarijan said:


> ISPR needs to organize another visit of reporters/ international media and take them to the areas where the payload was dropped. Additionally they also need to take the media to the supposed areas the IAF targeted. This is the easiest possible route to establish credibility and reject the claims of the enemy.


ISPR made admission of intrusion and dropping of Indian payload in Pakistan's territory. Now stop with the diplomacy or establishing credibility and go drop your own payload in Indian territory in stead of being chicken.

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## Maxpane

Arsalan 345 said:


> we lost pride.we should retaliate otherwise accept indian dominance.


agree sir

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## monitor

__ https://www.facebook.com/




Indians are using this video of PAF Aircrafts (JF-17) releasing Flares to celebrate Independence day a 4 year old video over Parliament at midnight as attack On Jaish Camps

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## Jackdaws

pakistanipower said:


> We talk tall, act nothing in time, this is humiliations for Pakistani armed forces that in such tense moments they not react in time, how can even imagine any sovereign country to allow that enemy jets intrudes yours airspace drop some bombs whether it harmful or not for public and property, Its real failure to PAF and air defense command @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan


We feel the same more often than not.


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## Riz

Yaseen1 said:


> jf17 is not reliable jet better we attain j20 or j31 otherwise buy european or russian jets if u.s not sell us if jf17 was really locked on by indians it is a matter of consideration for paf to rethink this jet production


Thats the advantage of quantity brother ... When 500+ attacking jets coming towards you


Imran Khan said:


> Bus ker de bhai mard e momen ki pant na utaar


Wesy aik bat ha.. India na to sari world ko bata dia we attacked terrorists camps...hum kia batain gay PAF na kidhar attack kia IOK ma...lol


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

So what the Fu$k is the PAF doing? What f$cking traitors, should be all hanged

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## pakdefender

lightoftruth said:


> Cute,ask Paf what sound it was.



When PAF showed up you ran , you should have stayed on for longer and actually engaged in air to air combat.

"Air Kabadi" doesn't count , although for this also you'll get payback , wait and see

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## Dazzler

Indian FO says, have no knowledge if anything happened at the LOC. 

Lol

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## RPK

Dazzler said:


> Indian FO says, have no knowledge if anything happened at the LOC.
> 
> Lol


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## KRAIT

Silverblaze said:


> If its true that india carried out strikes and PAF did nothing, response will be there either conventional or sub conventional.


IAF will be ready. If things get way ugly, India might start naval blockade. IN is our strongest asset.



Dazzler said:


> Indian FO says, have no knowledge if anything happened at the LOC.
> 
> Lol


Kindly check news. Indian FO confirmed it.


----------



## CriticalThought

Dazzler said:


> Indian FO says, have no knowledge if anything happened at the LOC.
> 
> Lol



Meaning the operation was planned and executed with high level of secrecy.


----------



## khansaheeb

member.exe said:


> But their media saying that the jets were Mirage 2000s


They can't remember all their lies.

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## Dazzler

KRAIT said:


> IAF will be ready. If things get way ugly, India might start naval blockade. IN is our strongest asset.
> 
> 
> Kindly check news. Indian FO confirmed it.



Unlikely, they have no clue where those hunter killer subs may be roaming under the sea.


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## pakdefender

KRAIT said:


> IAF will be ready. If things get way ugly, India might start naval blockade. IN is our strongest asset.
> 
> 
> Kindly check news. Indian FO confirmed it.



We'll nuke your entire coast line , no going back for your ships then , they can stay at sea forever

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## Rafael

Dazzler said:


> Indian FO says, have no knowledge if anything happened at the LOC.
> 
> Lol



https://www.dawn.com/news/1466149/i...truck-biggest-training-camp-of-jem-in-balakot

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## khansaheeb

GriffinsRule said:


> Only a fool would believe in their media


Enough Indians believing their media.

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## KRAIT

Dazzler said:


> Unlikely, they have no clue where those hunter killer subs may be roaming under the sea.


Indian Poseidons were bought for that purpose. We will see more losses but IN has upper hand over PN.


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## Mani2020

Dazzler said:


> Indian FO says, have no knowledge if anything happened at the LOC.
> 
> Lol



I think we should do a bigger LOL on PAF . Who has acted no different to FO.

Seriously it amazes me how naive people we have!!!

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## Dazzler

Rafael said:


> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466149/i...truck-biggest-training-camp-of-jem-in-balakot


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## Foxtrot Delta

well if no dead bodies or injured people turn up. its going to be embarassing for india. cuz they we all are looking for a proof. people in india, pakistan and world in general.

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## Arsalan 345

KRAIT said:


> Indian Poseidons were bought for that purpose. We will see more losses but IN has upper hand over PN.



i think today you win.we were caught off guard.


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## KRAIT

pakdefender said:


> We'll nuke your entire coast line , no going back for your ships then , they can stay at sea forever


Come on. Nuking coastline? You are a senior member. After all these years you must have realized that there will be no nuclear attack from either side.


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## khansaheeb

If Mirage travels at 1500mph then it travels approx 25 miles in one minute, so they were in Pakistan from one minute to a few seconds, lol. Our pilots didn't even have enough time to put their tea down.

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## lightoftruth

pakdefender said:


> When PAF showed up you ran , you should have stayed on for longer and actually engaged in air to air combat.
> 
> "Air Kabadi" doesn't count , although for this also you'll get payback , wait and see


We broke your defences that were supposedly on High Alert, moved way ahead till KPK ,bombed it and came back safely.
Call it air kabaddi or whatever to save your dignity, we won't strip it away .
We got what we wanted.

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## Khaqan Humayun

Jackdaws said:


> How do you know some of the Indian pilots wouldn't have been Muslims? Don't make it about religion all the time.


Munafiq can be in Indian Army not Muslims.

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## Silverblaze

KRAIT said:


> IAF will be ready. If things get way ugly, India might start naval blockade. IN is our strongest asset.
> 
> 
> Kindly check news. Indian FO confirmed it.



Naval blockade is full scale war anti ship missiles, ballistic missiles will be used. indian govt has called this so called strike a non military strike themselves which means they do not want escalation. 

In any way, if its true that india struck, indias air assets might be facing unconventional warfare as have indias ground forces. iran does it successfully.


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## Jackdaws

Riz said:


> Thats the advantage of quantity brother ... When 500+ attacking jets coming towards you
> 
> Wesy aik bat ha.. India na to sari world ko bata dia we attacked terrorists camps...hum kia batain gay PAF na kidhar attack kia IOK ma...lol


Exactly. Indian FS said we avoided civilian and military areas. Only terror camp was targeted.


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## KRAIT

Arsalan 345 said:


> i think today you win.we were caught off guard.


I think, PAF was ready. But the entire region is so vast and they didn't have enough time to cover all sectors at all time. We will see more patrols by both IAF and PAF now. IAF will be patrolling to ensure that PAF don't retaliate. IAF surprised PAF. I personally feel that both airforces are highly professional but IAF have better equipments now.

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## Areesh

lightoftruth said:


> We broke your defences that were supposedly on High Alert, moved way ahead till KPK ,bombed it and came back safely.
> Call it air kabaddi or whatever to save your dignity, we won't strip it away .
> We got what we wanted.



You didn't bomb KPK bharati

You bombed balakot that is a divided village on loc

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## Foxtrot Delta

Arsalan 345 said:


> i think today you win.we were caught off guard.



i beg to differ. wait till all information is realeased by our side. techincal details etc. 

we don't know much to judge yet.

have confidence in ur armred forces.

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## Great Janjua

Areesh said:


> You didn't bomb KPK bharati
> 
> You bombed balakot that is a divided village on loc
> 
> View attachment 541893


Kotha pahar nikla chuha


----------



## Wrath

lightoftruth said:


> We broke your defences that were supposedly on High Alert, moved way ahead till KPK ,bombed it and came back safely.
> Call it air kabaddi or whatever to save your dignity, we won't strip it away .
> We got what we wanted.


Oh hello mister . Don't have a breakdown . You are mentally ill . Moron , the place where Indian jets dropped their payload was balakot , near LoC. Your own journalists confirm this . So don't let the emotions over flow you clumsy f#ckhole ....

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## pakdefender

lightoftruth said:


> We broke your defences that were supposedly on High Alert, moved way ahead till KPK ,bombed it and came back safely.
> Call it air kabaddi or whatever to save your dignity, we won't strip it away .
> We got what we wanted.



Same things were said after "SirGiKal Strike1" , fact that you are now saying you have had to do "SirGiKal Strike2" mean ""SirGiKal Strike1" was a failure an all the randi dance done for ""SirGiKal Strike1" was just a randi doing tamasha

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## Jackdaws

KRAIT said:


> I think, PAF was ready. But the entire region is so vast and they didn't have enough time to cover all sectors at all time. We will see more patrols by both IAF and PAF now. IAF will be patrolling to ensure that PAF don't retaliate. IAF surprised PAF. I personally feel that both airforces are highly professional but IAF have better equipments now.


Yes. Pak will retaliate. They also have a constituency to cater to.

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## khansaheeb

pakdefender said:


> give suggestions what would be good targets , I've picked a few for 8 nuclear strikes
> View attachment 541878


The more we nuke them the sicker we will get and vice versa.


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## Riz

abdulbarijan said:


> ISPR needs to organize another visit of reporters/ international media and take them to the areas where the payload was dropped. Additionally they also need to take the media to the supposed areas the IAF targeted. This is the easiest possible route to establish credibility and reject the claims of the enemy.


Hey.. This is shameful practice. Look enemy is chest thumping they are announcing they attack us.. Now being a respectful solo Islamic power we need to show our enemy courage and toys what we have in our inventory.. Trust me this is a war and think like it and reply like it..

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## Areesh

Great Janjua said:


> Kotha pahar nikla chuha



Another inconclusive actions by Indians. Just like 2016

Nothing much on ground. But keeps local populace happy

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## Dazzler

Rafael said:


> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466149/i...truck-biggest-training-camp-of-jem-in-balakot



Casualties?


Areesh said:


> You didn't bomb KPK bharati
> 
> You bombed balakot that is a divided village on loc
> 
> View attachment 541893



Thats more like it. They claim Balakot is in KPK and our pessimist members got shoulders down. 

Kids, the moment they were locked, the IAF planes got the tone on RWR, they ran away "laying waste" in a no mans land, Achieving nothing. 

In short, the objective was not met, mission ABORTED!

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## Great Janjua

Next week when a another bomb attack envelope the Indian forces they shall blame the JEM again who they had supposedly targeted in balakot get real my friends. Apnay ap ki charahi karnay walay lok

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## Clutch

*Indian aircraft violate LoC, scramble back after PAF's timely response: ISPR*

Dawn.comUpdated February 26, 2019
Facebook Count1937
Twitter Share
54





In their haste to escape, Indian aircraft ended up releasing payload which fell near Balakot, says DG ISPR. — DG ISPR Twitter account

Indian military planes violated the Line of Control (LoC), intruding from the Muzaffarabad sector, Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major-General Asif Ghafoor said on his official Twitter account early on Tuesday.










Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100231826348617728

Payload of hastily escaping Indian aircrafts fell in open.


14.2K
8:11 PM - Feb 25, 2019

11.6K people are talking about this

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ISPR says Pakistani forces responded effectively
Payload dropped at Balakot
No casualties
Maj-Gen Ghafoor in his tweet said "Indian Air Force violated Line of Control", following which "Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled" and Indian aircraft went back.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100179216375693318

Indian Air Force violated Line of Control. Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back. Details to follow.


21.5K
4:42 PM - Feb 25, 2019
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12.2K people are talking about this





He later added that the aircraft faced "timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force" and ended up releasing "payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot". Payload is the carrying capacity of an aircraft, which is usually measured in terms of weight. This could include cargo, passengers, an explosive warhead or any instruments.

No casualties or damage occurred, the military spokesperson said.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100207947022565377

Indian aircrafts intruded from Muzafarabad sector. Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot. No casualties or damage.


21.4K
6:36 PM - Feb 25, 2019
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14.4K people are talking about this





In another tweet, he said that "Indian aircrafts’ intrusion across LoC in Muzaffarabad Sector within AJ&K was 3-4 miles".

Technical details and other important information to follow, he added.

PTI, via Twitter, linked the violation to India's upcoming elections, saying: "We realise it’s election year and [there is] a desperation across the border. Fact of the matter is, Indian jets were forced to retreat in haste by Pakistan army patrols and dumped fuel, which in their scramble they thought was a bomb."

*Pulwama aftermath*
Ties between Pakistan and India have been tense since a suicide bombing in occupied Kashmir killed over 40 Indian soldiers, with New Delhi blaming Pakistan of being complicit in the attack — a charge Islamabad has denied vehemently and from the get-go.

_Read more | Dawn Exclusive: A time for restraint_

In response to India's allegations, Prime Minister Imran Khan promised New Delhi to conduct an investigation if provided “actionable evidence” but also warned that Pakistan will "retaliate" if attacked. The Pakistan army has also warned India to avoid "any misadventure", saying it could have dangerous consequences.

On the other hand, while Jaish-e-Muhammad had claimed responsibility for the attack, New Delhi immediately blamed Islamabad and also announced that it would launch a diplomatic offensive to isolate Pakistan in the international community.

Furthermore, India has scrapped the Most Favoured Nation status granted to Pakistan and has imposed a 200 per cent customs duty on its goods, barring the exports of tomatoes to Pakistan and denying visas to Pakistani athletes.

_More on this: A terrifying fallout_

The international community has expressed alarm over the situation and as Delhi is ratcheting up regional tensions, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi has also cancelled his scheduled official trip to Japan.

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## Mani2020

So mates now who will come claiming his phupha chacha mamoo has said JF-17 is is a super duper aircraft and our pilots can bring down sukhois and typhoons with their skills on jf-17s.

Waiting !!!

I doubt, do PAF seriously has the capability to defend its airspace. Last time i went through a report from chinese soruce claiming that in last exercise carried out between PAF and PLAAF . 1 J-11 was pitted against 2 jf-17s and the results were in favor of J-11 , not a single kill claimed by jf-17. I doubted that but it seems that was true.

And paf somehow is hiding the reality. Just face saving !!!

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## Areesh

Dazzler said:


> Casualties?
> 
> 
> Thats more like it. They claim Balakot is in KPK and our pessimist members got shoulders down.
> 
> Kids, the moment they were locked, the IAF planes got the tone on RWR, they ran away "laying waste" in a no mans land, Achieving nothing.
> 
> In short, the objective was not met, mission ABORTED!



That is the case since 2016. 

Do something. That something would have no impact in reality on ground. But yeah the bharati janta would have a lollipop to suck up to. 

Face saving till next militant attack.


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## Republic

KhalaiMakhlooq said:


> fire the nuke now



You snatched the words from my mouth.
Where are those juvenile Pakistanis who were roaming here wearing nukes on their d!cks. Now fire your Atom Bomb if have any gutts. (DANE)


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## lightoftruth

Areesh said:


> You didn't bomb KPK bharati
> 
> You bombed balakot that is a divided village on loc
> 
> View attachment 541893


Jaba Top ,Mansehra district, Balakot ,KPK ,Pakistan.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100268842280996864


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## Dazzler

Clutch said:


> *Indian aircraft violate LoC, scramble back after PAF's timely response: ISPR*
> 
> Dawn.comUpdated February 26, 2019
> Facebook Count1937
> Twitter Share
> 54
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In their haste to escape, Indian aircraft ended up releasing payload which fell near Balakot, says DG ISPR. — DG ISPR Twitter account
> 
> Indian military planes violated the Line of Control (LoC), intruding from the Muzaffarabad sector, Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major-General Asif Ghafoor said on his official Twitter account early on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor
> 
> ✔@OfficialDGISPR
> 
> Payload of hastily escaping Indian aircrafts fell in open.
> 
> 
> 14.2K
> 8:11 PM - Feb 25, 2019
> 
> 11.6K people are talking about this
> 
> Twitter Ads info and privacy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ISPR says Pakistani forces responded effectively
> Payload dropped at Balakot
> No casualties
> Maj-Gen Ghafoor in his tweet said "Indian Air Force violated Line of Control", following which "Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled" and Indian aircraft went back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor
> 
> ✔@OfficialDGISPR
> 
> Indian Air Force violated Line of Control. Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back. Details to follow.
> 
> 
> 21.5K
> 4:42 PM - Feb 25, 2019
> Twitter Ads info and privacy
> 
> 12.2K people are talking about this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He later added that the aircraft faced "timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force" and ended up releasing "payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot". Payload is the carrying capacity of an aircraft, which is usually measured in terms of weight. This could include cargo, passengers, an explosive warhead or any instruments.
> 
> No casualties or damage occurred, the military spokesperson said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor
> 
> ✔@OfficialDGISPR
> 
> Indian aircrafts intruded from Muzafarabad sector. Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot. No casualties or damage.
> 
> 
> 21.4K
> 6:36 PM - Feb 25, 2019
> Twitter Ads info and privacy
> 
> 14.4K people are talking about this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In another tweet, he said that "Indian aircrafts’ intrusion across LoC in Muzaffarabad Sector within AJ&K was 3-4 miles".
> 
> Technical details and other important information to follow, he added.
> 
> PTI, via Twitter, linked the violation to India's upcoming elections, saying: "We realise it’s election year and [there is] a desperation across the border. Fact of the matter is, Indian jets were forced to retreat in haste by Pakistan army patrols and dumped fuel, which in their scramble they thought was a bomb."
> 
> *Pulwama aftermath*
> Ties between Pakistan and India have been tense since a suicide bombing in occupied Kashmir killed over 40 Indian soldiers, with New Delhi blaming Pakistan of being complicit in the attack — a charge Islamabad has denied vehemently and from the get-go.
> 
> _Read more | Dawn Exclusive: A time for restraint_
> 
> In response to India's allegations, Prime Minister Imran Khan promised New Delhi to conduct an investigation if provided “actionable evidence” but also warned that Pakistan will "retaliate" if attacked. The Pakistan army has also warned India to avoid "any misadventure", saying it could have dangerous consequences.
> 
> On the other hand, while Jaish-e-Muhammad had claimed responsibility for the attack, New Delhi immediately blamed Islamabad and also announced that it would launch a diplomatic offensive to isolate Pakistan in the international community.
> 
> Furthermore, India has scrapped the Most Favoured Nation status granted to Pakistan and has imposed a 200 per cent customs duty on its goods, barring the exports of tomatoes to Pakistan and denying visas to Pakistani athletes.
> 
> _More on this: A terrifying fallout_
> 
> The international community has expressed alarm over the situation and as Delhi is ratcheting up regional tensions, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi has also cancelled his scheduled official trip to Japan.




Hmm, no camps here, what the f? They laid waste over a freaking forest.

Poor trees.


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## Clutch

*PM Khan summons 'important meeting' in wake of India's LoC violation*

Dawn.comUpdated February 26, 2019
Facebook Count1050
Twitter Share
6







Prime Minister Imran Khan will hold an emergency meeting at 11am. ─ APP/File

Prime Minister Imran Khan will hold an emergency meeting at 11am on Tuesday, according to Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi.

Earlier this morning, Qureshi had summoned an emergency meeting at the Foreign Office in Islamabad to discuss the emerging situation in the wake of Indian Air Force's (IAF) violation of the Line of Control, _Radio Pakistan_ reported.

The meeting was being held to discuss the security situation and was attended by former secretaries and senior ambassadors.

_Read more: ISPR DG suggests Indian army chief should follow 'Gen Bajwa's vision for regional peace'_

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD
In a statement following the LoC violation, Qureshi warned India not to challenge Pakistan and said that better sense should prevail in Delhi, _Radio Pakistan_reported.

He said that Pakistan reserves the right to deliver an appropriate response and the right to self-defence.

The foreign minister said the nation should not be worried over the Indian act as the defenders of the country are fully prepared to respond to any misadventure.

Meanwhile, India's Cabinet Committee on Security met at Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s residence in Delhi, _Asian News International_ reported, following which the Ministry of External Affairs issued a statement on the incident this morning.

Early on Tuesday, the Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor confirmed that the IAF had "violated the LoC". He said that as Indian planes had intruded from Muzaffarabad, the Pakistan Air Force "immediately scrambled".

"Indian aircrafts' intrusion across LoC in Muzafarabad sector within Azad Jammu and Kashmir was three to four miles.Under forced hasty withdrawal, aircrafts released payload which had free fall in open area. No infrastructure got hit, no casualties," he added.

_More details to follow._


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## Osiris

As per NDTV, Indian foreign sec is saying Balakot in KPK was hit.


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## Areesh

lightoftruth said:


> Jaba Top ,Mansehra district, Balakot ,KPK ,Pakistan.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100268842280996864



Confusion in the fog of news

Jabba top is fine



Osiris said:


> As per NDTV, Indian foreign sec is saying Balakot in KPK was hit.



Clearly lying to you guys again


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## pakdefender

Dazzler said:


> Hmm, no camps here, what the f? They laid waste over a freaking forest.
> 
> Poor trees.



Indian precision ammunition works by designating trees as camps

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## Dazzler

pakdefender said:


> Indian precision ammunition works by designating trees as camps



Seems to be the case, Green top camps must be bombed.


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## Tps43

Starlord said:


> @Windjammer @Tps43


Halat tight ho gai hain


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## Osiris

Areesh said:


> Confusion in the fog of news
> 
> Jabba top is fine
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly lying to you guys again



Unlike ISPR, who first claimed that Indian jet tried to intrude in Pakistan airspace were chased away and then several hours later changed their story to how they dropped their payload first in Balakot, while being chased away.


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## Foxtrot Delta

Dazzler said:


> Hmm, no camps here, what the f? They laid waste over a freaking forest.
> 
> Poor trees.



i think they missed a mountain top which i can see here from my home in muzaffarabad. and when the glide bomb missed the mountain top it fell behind the mountain which is balakot region.


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## Max

He is waste of space, plz refer to your own Ministry of external affairs briefings. it happned on LOC, Pakistan should also respond with same, drop bombs in the jungles of Jammu.


lightoftruth said:


> Jaba Top ,Mansehra district, Balakot ,KPK ,Pakistan.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100268842280996864


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## Tps43

CHACHA"G" said:


> *They came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan...…………….. They bombed (whatever) …………. They went back …………. They even had lock on JF-17(who knows) ………..
> My Question is...……..
> Where were our SAM system...….. Where was our Air Defence...….
> *
> @MastanKhan , @Tps43 , @graphican , @django , @Zarvan , @Imran Khan , @Moonlight , @ghazi52 , @Rafi , @Windjammer , @Yaseen1 , @Path-Finder , @war&peace , @AZADPAKISTAN2009 , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zibago …… @Enigma_


We had CAP till 3 AM and just after cap they came inside


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## Mentee

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I think they are testing to see if our SAM are active or they are turned off
> Plus trying to calculate our response



That's what I was thinking. Intrusion was done to lure paf into exposing its sam sites
@The Sandman


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## Areesh

Osiris said:


> Unlike ISPR, who first claimed that Indian jet tried to intrude in Pakistan airspace were chased away and then several hours later changed their story to how they dropped their payload first in Balakot, while being chased away.



Yeah balakot 

That is right next to loc. Not one in kpk

Clearly your foreign seceratery is lying.

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## Cash GK

The wheel of time said:


> oh yeah yeah, I too have beaten four of your guys when i was in kuwait and till the time i lived there the entire chota pakistan locality lived in fear. maybe we can meet someday for a duel.


something burning lier do say. have you ever travele out of your village. do you even know where is kuwaití on map?


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## untitled

Dazzler said:


> Seems to be the case, Green top camps must be bombed.


Can't this be achieved by regular artillery?

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## Osiris

Areesh said:


> Yeah balakot
> 
> That is right next to loc. Not one in kpk
> 
> Clearly your foreign seceratery is lying.



Please show it on the map then.


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## Foxtrot Delta

member.exe said:


> Can't this be achieved by regular artillery?



artilery kills civlian population. glide laser guided bombs are more accurate relatively.


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## Clutch

*India airstrike in Pakistan: IAF crosses LoC first time since 1971 war*
*The last time IAF crossed the LoC and used the Mirage aircraft was during the 1971 war. Even during the 1999 Kargil war, the IAF had not crossed over to the LoC.*

_




_


_India Today Web Desk_

_New Delhi_
_February 26, 2019_
_UPDATED: February 26, 2019 11:50 IST_
_

Two weeks after the Pulwama terror attack, India on Tuesday crossed over Line of Control (LoC) and destroyed the JeM, LeT and Hizbul Mujahideen training camps at around 3:30 am. The Indian Air Force (IAF) used 12 Mirage aircraft and dropped 1000 kilograms of bombs on the terror launch pads across the Pakistan occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir).

The last time IAF crossed the LoC and used the Mirage aircraft was during the 1971 war. Even during the 1999 Kargil war, the IAF had not crossed over to the LoC. The countries world over observe extreme caution when they decide to violate a foreign country's airspace as doing so is considered to be an act of war.

*India strikes Pakistan LIVE Updates*

Today, IAF did not just strike sites at Chikoti and Muzaffarabad close to the LoC, it also went deep inside the Pakistani territory to destroy the terror launch pads i.e., Balakot sector. In other words, India not just crossed LoC, it attacked Pakistan.

Pakistan on Tuesday claimed that IAF fighter jets crossed the LoC and returned after the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) scrambled war planes. Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Asif Ghafoor tweeted early Tuesday and Radio

Pakistan claimed that the IAF planes dropped payload in haste before leaving, which fell near Balakot in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

The alleged incident took place in the Muzaffarabad sector, claimed Radio Pakistan.

The airstrike in Pakistan follows a suicide bombing attack on a Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) convoy in Pulwama on February 14 that killed 40 troopers.

Also Read | Pakistani drone shot down in Gujarat border this morning
Also Read | Mirage jets destroy Pakistan terror camp with 1,000 kg bombs in pre-dawn strike: Sources
Also Watch | Watch: Josh is high, says Shivraj Chouhan











Get real-time alerts and all the news on your phone with the all-new India Today app. Download from_

_

_
_

_


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## CHACHA"G"

Tps43 said:


> We had CAP till 3 AM and just after cap they came inside


So we don't have enough Air crafts ……… Why not PAF buy J-10s...……….. Bro Indian violated 10 km restriction( forbidden area for aircrafts) ……..Then they came about 5 KM inside Pakistan...….. Launched standoff munition and hit KPK...… And then went back...…. 
Where was PAF???????????? Where were our Airdefence ???????? What about SAMs(MANPADs) on Frontline of LOC.,,,,,,,,,??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I am so fuking pisssssssseeeeeeeedddddddddd now..

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## Dazzler

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346


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## Zulfiqar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100278752762683395

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## untitled

Foxtrot Delta said:


> artilery kills civlian population. glide laser guided bombs are more accurate relatively.


Given that only trees were taken out by this bomb/tank. The same could have been achieved by using well aimed artillery shells. Since artillery duels are the norm on LOC it would not have been as spectacular as this mission

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## CHACHA"G"

Dazzler said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346


So what hit in KPK????????????????????


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## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100283011856326657Look a fake video claim by Indian on twitter as attack on Pakistan . from the video you can clearly spot static helicopter gunshot and shadow of helicopter .

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## KRAIT

Pakistanis should ask that how come all the IAF planes went back unscratched. All 12 of them. What was PAF doing?

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## PurpleButcher

Tps43 said:


> We had CAP till 3 AM and just after cap they came inside


Shouldn't CAP be round the clock? Lets admit the following

1) IAF movement should have been monitored from well inside the indian air space using awacs close to IB & LOC!

2) If any IAF fighther approaches within "X" miles (20-50 whatever) PAF must have been on the alert that xyz aircraft's trajectory suggests that it might intrude in this region!

3) PAF pilots must have clear instructions "before" the intrusion that if xyz "which is headed for an intrusion" comes in our airspace, do we chicken out or hit it whether its in our airspace for only one second!

4) & DG ISPR, please make one well thought about tweet using commas and exact location.

One should fear that this thing becomes a routine by IAF !

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## Areesh

Osiris said:


> Please show it on the map then.



Here you go

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## valkyr_96

Jackdaws said:


> Yes. Pak will retaliate. They also have a constituency to cater to.


 What constituency? Sorry buddy the elections are far far away and our vote went to the person who we consider the best fit to turnaround our economy and recovery of foreign assets made through money laundering. Though the same hold true for you lot. Good day!


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## Mentee

Tps43 said:


> We had CAP till 3 AM and just after cap they came inside


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## Dazzler

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100283011856326657Look a fake video claim by Indian on twitter as attack on Pakistan . from the video you can clearly spot static helicopter gunshot and shadow of helicopter .



That's how dumb they are, and expect others to be at the same level.

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## pakdefender

Selection of indian comments from the net , just for the laughs:

1. "Not in the last 35-40 years did we do something spectacular! " , bombing a tree is the most spectacular thing indians have done in 35-40 years , noted 

2. "Truly, truly a proud day" for what , bombing a tree hahaha

3. "Our men in white must be straining at the leash, waiting for their turn" errr leash is for dogs not for humans .. 

4. "I hope we release some footage or at least satellite images of pre and post attack images, even commercial grade pics from ISRO would be nice" : already in doubt, they don't actually believe in the whole BS story them selves , its a case of dill ku khush rakhnay ka liya

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## CHACHA"G"

member.exe said:


> Given that only trees were taken out by this bomb/tank. The same could have been achieved by using well aimed artillery shells. Since artillery duels are the norm on LOC it would not have been as spectacular as this mission


What if they (indian ) released videos...…………………. 
Dear bro...…… Today I am not going to but ISPR …………… Indian Air force violated about 15 Km and we did nothing ………… Our Air defence failed ……….. our ops on Front line posts on LOC failed...………. In short We failed……..
Now ISPR can call it fail attack , or indian run away ,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Areesh

CHACHA"G" said:


> So what hit in KPK????????????????????


Nope balakot village of ajk. It is a divided village at loc.


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## Dazzler

Mentee said:


>



Scramble is on 24/7. The planes intruded and intercepted within a minute.

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## Great Janjua

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100283011856326657Look a fake video claim by Indian on twitter as attack on Pakistan . from the video you can clearly spot static helicopter gunshot and shadow of helicopter .


It's fucking arma 2 game clip

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## monitor

it’s official: India has struck the biggest Jaish-e-Muhammad camp in Balakote, says Indian Foreign Secretary. Among those killed is Yusuf Azhar, brother in law of Masood Azhar. Facility was in thick forests on a hilltop.


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## POPEYE-Sailor

LOL


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## monitor

Dazzler said:


> Scramble is on 24/7. The planes intruded and intercepted within a minute.



But why didn't you shoot down one out of 12 aircraft . If you could destroy one would be price trophy for Pakistan .


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## 313ghazi

Daal me kuch kala hai.

If IAF was over Balakot, even if its a few KM into our territory, why did nobody shoot at them? Suggests to me they weren't prepared.

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## pakdefender

monitor said:


> But why didn't you shoot down one out of 12 aircraft . If you could destroy one would be price trophy for Pakistan .



what proof is there , that 12 air crafts actually entered ? can't shoot down imaginary planes

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## Areesh

monitor said:


> But why didn't you shoot down one out of 12 aircraft . If you could destroy one would be price trophy for Pakistan .



That 12 aircraft claim is by Indians.

Looking at the "damage" or lack of damage on ground it looks like there were only 1 or 2 aircraft that released their payload and ran away

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## Tps43

Mentee said:


>

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## valkyr_96

CHACHA"G" said:


> What if they (indian ) released videos...………………….
> Dear bro...…… Today I am not going to but ISPR …………… Indian Air force violated about 15 Km and we did nothing ………… Our Air defence failed ……….. our ops on Front line posts on LOC failed...………. In short We failed……..
> Now ISPR can call it fail attack , or indian run away ,,,,,,,,,,,


 Dude you are either here or there please dont mix and mash two different narrative. The indian side is claiming no violations and the use of standoff munitions...no interception whatever. It is the ISPR claim that IAF jettisoned "payload" and exited when being intercepted at the LoC where Bale Kote is smack in the middle of the LoC.


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## dray / Rain Man

We have kept our promise and Pakistanis' wishes have been fulfilled, we have striked not only across LoC in Azad Kashmir, but also across Azad Kashmir in KPK, that's Pakistani territory, Pakistani territories have been struck leaving nothing to speculation or excuse. And we didn't do a cowardly terrorist strike, we sent our air force for the deep strike. Now over to Pakistanis for their move, they can either start something that they cannot win, or sulk it up with big humiliation. We are waiting for the former. Thank you.


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## Tps43

CHACHA"G" said:


> So what hit in KPK????????????????????


Nothing it was in balakot village (muzafarabad)

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## Maxpane

Mentee said:


>


bhai aik air group k bad dosra group duty pe nahn ata kia


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## Tps43

dray / Rain Man said:


> We have kept our promise and Pakistanis' wishes have been fulfilled, we have striked not only across LoC in Azad Kashmir, but also across Azad Kashmir in KPK, that's Pakistani territory, Pakistani territories have been struck leaving nothing to speculation or excuse. And we didn't do a cowardly terrorist strike, we sent our air force for the deep strike. Now over to Pakistanis for their move, they can either start something that they cannot win, or sulk it up with big humiliation. We are waiting for the former. Thank you.


Oooh kpk

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## Jackdaws

valkyr_96 said:


> What constituency? Sorry buddy the elections are far far away and our vote went to the person who we consider the best fit to turnaround our economy and recovery of foreign assets made through money laundering. Though the same hold true for you lot. Good day!


A constituency exists even during no elections. Heck, even your military has a constituency given the amount of internal power it weilds.


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## Areesh

valkyr_96 said:


> Dude you are either here or there please dont mix and mash two different narrative. The indian side is claiming no violations and the use of standoff munitions...no interception whatever. It is the ISPR claim that IAF jettisoned "payload" and exited when being intercepted at the LoC where Bale Kote is smack in the middle of the LoC.



12 mirages can literally flat the whole place

Looking at the damage that we have seen it is most probably only 1 or 2 aircraft involved. And they too did a very pathetic job


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## Tps43

Maxpane said:


> bhai aik air group k bad dosra group duty pe nahn ata kia


24 hours CAP nhi rakhi jasakti


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## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> 24 hours CAP nhi rakhi jasakti


sir high alert sitation maim bhi?


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## Areesh

dray / Rain Man said:


> We have kept our promise and Pakistanis' wishes have been fulfilled, we have striked not only across LoC in Azad Kashmir, but also across Azad Kashmir in KPK, that's Pakistani territory, Pakistani territories have been struck leaving nothing to speculation or excuse. And we didn't do a cowardly terrorist strike, we sent our air force for the deep strike. Now over to Pakistanis for their move, they can either start something that they cannot win, or sulk it up with big humiliation. We are waiting for the former. Thank you.



Not kpk. It is a village right at loc


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## dray / Rain Man

Tps43 said:


> Oooh kpk



Oooh that's where Balakot is.


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## 313ghazi

Pakhtoon yum said:


> So what the Fu$k is the PAF doing? What f$cking traitors, should be all hanged



Calm down. Its not thier fault you believe all the hype about thier alleged excellence, using evidence from 50 years ago.

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## KhalaiMakhlooq

dray / Rain Man said:


> We have kept our promise and Pakistanis' wishes have been fulfilled, we have striked not only across LoC in Azad Kashmir, but also across Azad Kashmir in KPK, that's Pakistani territory, Pakistani territories have been struck leaving nothing to speculation or excuse. And we didn't do a cowardly terrorist strike, we sent our air force for the deep strike. Now over to Pakistanis for their move, they can either start something that they cannot win, or sulk it up with big humiliation. We are waiting for the former. Thank you.



we had a dog once, we called it Mothi. it was a horrible dog that was prideful and arrogant and wouldn't submit to its master. So we grabbed its head and sliced its ears off. Why?

1. so the dog knew who his master was
2. out of mercy... so the other dogs wouldn't hurt it.


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## Tps43

Maxpane said:


> sir high alert sitation maim bhi?


Depend karta hai wese 3 am ka baad pilot cockpit main the matlb reaction time sirf 1 min ka tha


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## Osiris

Areesh said:


> Here you go
> 
> View attachment 541896



LOL that Is KPK.


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## Mani2020

313ghazi said:


> Daal me kuch kala hai.
> 
> If IAF was over Balakot, even if its a few KM into our territory, why did nobody shoot at them? Suggests to me they weren't prepared.


They were busy planning housing schemes


----------



## Mentee

Maxpane said:


> bhai aik air group k bad dosra group duty pe nahn ata kia


Pta nae yar aaarti utaaro in ki


----------



## dray / Rain Man

Areesh said:


> Not kpk. It is a village right at loc
> 
> View attachment 541899



Now Pakistanis will edit Wikipedia!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balakot


----------



## Areesh

Osiris said:


> LOL that Is KPK.



Check again. One balakot is at loc too

As I said. You Indians have been given a new lollipop. Suck it like last time.

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## CHACHA"G"

pakdefender said:


> what proof is there , that 12 air crafts actually entered ? can't shoot down imaginary planes





Areesh said:


> That 12 aircraft claim is by Indians.
> 
> Looking at the "damage" or lack of damage on ground it looks like there were only 1 or 2 aircraft that released their payload and ran away



Indian claiming 12 aircrafts ………… Indian FO said Balakot (KPK) but IAF did not cross IB (means they stayed in "over" AJ&k)………… And about payload release ……. I will not Buy ISPR today...…….. What if ISPR only showing 2 or 3 bombs which really hits tress only and hiding other????????????
Dear bros …… Accept the reality and reality is ……….. They came , the bomb , they went back ……. Our PAF failed , our airt defence failed …..
There is 10km restriction for Airforce aircrafts on loc …….. IAF violated that and then enter Pakistan …… And we are not able to shoot down 1 of them...……
What was our RAdar doing ??????? Where were our AWAcs/////////////

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## Foxtrot Delta

Tps43 said:


> Nothing it was in balakot village (muzafarabad)



Balakot near Muzaffarfbad AJK is 30 minute drive and is located in KPK province. there is no other balakot near muzaffarabad


----------



## Tps43

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oooh that's where Balakot is.


It was balakote village in ajk near loc


----------



## Clutch

CHACHA"G" said:


> So we don't have enough Air crafts ……… Why not PAF buy J-10s...……….. Bro Indian violated 10 km restriction( forbidden area for aircrafts) ……..Then they came about 5 KM inside Pakistan...….. Launched standoff munition and hit KPK...… And then went back...….
> Where was PAF???????????? Where were our Airdefence ???????? What about SAMs(MANPADs) on Frontline of LOC.,,,,,,,,,??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> I am so fuking pisssssssseeeeeeeedddddddddd now..




Nobody pays taxes... How do you expect Pakistan to afford anything?? F16 were gifted... That's all we got.

Corruption.


----------



## Areesh

dray / Rain Man said:


> Now Pakistanis will edit Wikipedia!
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balakot



There are two balakot genius. One in kpk. Second in ajk. 

You dropped hastily your payloads on balakot in ajk. Not kpk

Learn the difference


----------



## pakdefender

OK , for what its worth if we take the indian claim at its face value then it means that there are no more "terror camps" left and strike was a success however if india back tracks and still talks about "terror camps" then it will mean "SirJiKal Strike2" was a failure

Agree ? I mean can't have it both ways


----------



## dray / Rain Man

KhalaiMakhlooq said:


> we had a dog once, we called it Mothi. it was a horrible dog that was prideful and arrogant and wouldn't submit to its master. So we grabbed its head and sliced its ears off. Why?
> 
> 1. so the dog knew who his master was
> 2. out of mercy... so the other dogs wouldn't hurt it.



Meaningless words......grow some balls and strike back.


----------



## Maxpane

Mentee said:


> Pta nae yar aaarti utaaro in ki


bhai kasam se jitna mujhy paf pe proud tha sub khatam ho gaya aj


----------



## The Sandman

Mentee said:


> That's what I was thinking. Intrusion was done to lure paf into exposing its sam sites
> @The Sandman


Come on bro even a KG kid can make better excuses than some of the "senior" members here. Let's just accept the truth today they came, bombed and went back without a scratch and even if they wanted to know about our sam sites well than congrats to them because 1) Either they don't exist or 2) We want to keep them as showpieces so they're safe in every scenario. "Shaheens" have embarrassed us today i know it's hard for some to accept but that's the truth.

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## Tps43

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Balakot near Muzaffarfbad AJK is 30 minute drive and is located in KPK province. there is no other balakot near muzaffarabad


Bala kote village near loc


----------



## BijliKhala

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100283011856326657Look a fake video claim by Indian on twitter as attack on Pakistan . from the video you can clearly spot static helicopter gunshot and shadow of helicopter .



Also the time is around 17:30. Indians brain farts are all around LOC...


----------



## lightoftruth

Balakot KPK ,deep hit.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100268842280996864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100290297605640192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100265737099325440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100288629493006336

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## Areesh

CHACHA"G" said:


> Indian claiming 12 aircrafts ………… Indian FO said Balakot (KPK) but IAF did not cross IB (means they stayed in "over" AJ&k)………… And about payload release ……. I will not Bye ISPR today...…….. What if ISPR only showing 2 or 3 bombs which really hits tress only and hiding other????????????
> Dear bros …… Accept the reality and reality is ……….. They came , the bomb , they went back ……. Our PAF failed , our airt defence failed …..
> There is 10km restriction for Airforce aircrafts on loc …….. IAF violated that and then enter Pakistan …… And we are not able to shoot down 1 of them...……
> What was our RAdar doing ??????? Where were our AWAcs/////////////



You can believe whatever you want to. 

Balajot is a tourist place with hundreds of tourists at that place all the time. If IAF had done attacks on balakot then we would have videos and pictures by now. 

Rest you can whine all you want.

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## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> Depend karta hai wese 3 am ka baad pilot cockpit main the matlb reaction time sirf 1 min ka tha


bhai pilots ko kahen hamara dil na toren is tarah ki news jab ati ha


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Tps43 said:


> Bala kote village near loc



thats not near muzaffrabad that's on the opposite side. near kotli.

DG ISPR clearly said muzaffabad sector was violated .

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## Beskar

Turkey has no problem shooting down Russian migs but we’re still scrambling fighters and chasing them away. Not a good strategy, Intruder should have been locked from miles apart and shot.

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## Areesh

lightoftruth said:


> Balakot KPK ,deep hit.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100268842280996864
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100290297605640192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100265737099325440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100288629493006336



Obviously no video or picture from that kpk balakot exists. 

And we all know why


----------



## Mentee

The Sandman said:


> Come on bro even a KG kid can make better excuses than some of the "senior" members here. Let's just accept the truth today they came, bombed and went back without a scratch and even if they wanted to know about our sam sites well than congrats to them because 1) Either they don't exist or 2) We want to keep them as showpieces so they're safe in every scenario. "Shaheens" have embarrassed us today i know it's hard for some to accept but that's the truth.


As they say in Punjabi 
Asi utto'n pharay gay aa'n
We've been caught off guard

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100290322888908801God dam we did not show the dji phantom drone like ispr


----------



## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> Depend karta hai wese 3 am ka baad pilot cockpit main the matlb reaction time sirf 1 min ka tha


bhai pilots ko kahen hamara dil na toren is tarah ki news jab ati ha


Mentee said:


> As they say in Punjabi
> Asi utto'n pharay gay aa'n
> We've been caught off guard


bhai noore excuses kasam se legacy ki dhajiyan ur gai hain

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## Mentee

Indians can claim whatever but it does give us an excuse to pay in kind, nae? @Tps43 @The Sandman

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## Great Janjua

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100290322888908801God dam we did not show the dji phantom drone like ispr


Not our fault your army operates shit drones


----------



## maithil

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100292413808041990
Not looking good at all for PAF.


----------



## Areesh

Foxtrot Delta said:


> thats not near muzaffrabad that's on the opposite side. near kotli.
> 
> DG ISPR clearly said muzaffabad sector was violated .



Balakot is a divided village. Right on loc

Dg ISPR also said that they released payload while exiting. 

Obviously IAF can't exit from balakot in kpk. 

Use common sense guys.


----------



## Osiris

Areesh said:


> Check again. One balakot is at loc too
> 
> As I said. You Indians have been given a new lollipop. Suck it like last time.




Thats on India side LOC, near Poonch.


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Areesh said:


> You can believe whatever you want to.
> 
> Balajot is a tourist place with hundreds of tourists at that place all the time. If IAF had done attacks on balakot then we would have videos and pictures by now.
> 
> Rest you can whine all you want.


and you can be a man with false manhood...……….. indian violated 10km restriction , enter Pakistan and bombed ……..and you still not accepting it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hell with people like you and fanboys ……… shame on Pakistani media...… 
Dear bro,,,,,,,,,, Allah Ka wasta See the reality...……………….. Face it ………….. Defensive force , defensive mentality destroyed Pakistan...…….

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## enquencher

Great Janjua said:


> Not our fault your army operates shit drones


Told u go watch psl. Or maybe pogo


----------



## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100268939135852545India claims to have dropped 1000kg bomb


----------



## Areesh

Osiris said:


> Thats on India side LOC, near Poonch.



It is right at loc. Divided village. On both sides.


----------



## Dazzler

dray / Rain Man said:


> We have kept our promise and Pakistanis' wishes have been fulfilled, we have striked not only across LoC in Azad Kashmir, but also across Azad Kashmir in KPK, that's Pakistani territory, Pakistani territories have been struck leaving nothing to speculation or excuse. And we didn't do a cowardly terrorist strike, we sent our air force for the deep strike. Now over to Pakistanis for their move, they can either start something that they cannot win, or sulk it up with big humiliation. We are waiting for the former. Thank you.



5 miles is a deep strike? the buffer zone is more than that.

Here is your deep strike:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728

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## valkyr_96

Jackdaws said:


> A constituency exists even during no elections. Heck, even your military has a constituency given the amount of internal power it weilds.


 <-public defecation


----------



## Super Falcon

Yes we should have trapped them and brought them to ground for more miserable to modi


----------



## lightoftruth

Areesh said:


> Obviously no video or picture from that kpk balakot exists.
> 
> And we all know why




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100287834752114688


----------



## Areesh

CHACHA"G" said:


> and you can be a man with false manhood...……….. indian violated 10km restriction , enter Pakistan and bombed ……..and you still not accepting it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hell with people like you and fanboys ……… shame on Pakistani media...…
> Dear bro,,,,,,,,,, Allah Ka wasta See the reality...……………….. Face it ………….. Defensive force , defensive mentality destroyed Pakistan...…….



Accept what?? 

That they bombed kpk which never happened?? 

As I said you xan whine all you want. Nobody else is supposed to accept it.


----------



## dray / Rain Man

Areesh said:


> There are two balakot genius. One in kpk. Second in ajk.
> 
> You dropped hastily your payloads on balakot in ajk. Not kpk
> 
> Learn the difference



We have dropped bomb with precision in KPK. More importantly, we have dropped bomb inside Pakistan by going deep into Pakistani airspace, what are you going to do about it? You are waiting with glee.


----------



## The Sandman

Mentee said:


> Indians can claim whatever but it does give us an excuse to pay in kind, nae? @Tps43 @The Sandman


OFCOURSE it does we've a right to hit back but the way ISPR is downplaying this clearly shows the willingness baatein krne joge hain i hope and pray they prove me wrong and hit back 


Mentee said:


> As they say in Punjabi
> Asi utto'n pharay gay aa'n
> We've been caught off guard


Jithon wi phare gaye sach ae we ke inna ne mun wakhan joge ni chadya sanu hun aes f16 di inni wadi nose nu maroor ke te aho ifywim


----------



## Areesh

lightoftruth said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100287834752114688



Random sources. Would be clear in few hours.



dray / Rain Man said:


> We have dropped bomb with precision in KPK. More importantly, we have dropped bomb inside Pakistan by going deep into Pakistani airspace, what are you going to do about it? You are waiting with glee.



KPK claim is a lie. Would be proven soon.

Rsst you would be whining after first few days of celebration. Just like last surgical strikes.


----------



## Mani2020

Dazzler said:


> 5 miles is a deep strike? the buffer zone is more than that.
> 
> Here is your deep strike:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728



Oh bhai why ddint you shot at them? 5 miles or 2 miles, they have dared to come and we didnt have balls to shoot them down. and now we are immature enough to debate on 5 miles and 3 miles.

21 toppoun ki salami ha ic soch ko

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## dray / Rain Man

Dazzler said:


> 5 miles is a deep strike? the buffer zone is more than that.
> 
> Here is your deep strike:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728



Now you are resorting to weak face saver, we have gone into Pakistani airspace and dropped bomb inside Pakistan with precision.


----------



## maithil

Few people (even "senior ones") saying that IAF did not violate LOC ?

Look at this video of SMQ. His expressions say it all.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100287457554247681

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## CHACHA"G"

valkyr_96 said:


> Dude you are either here or there please dont mix and mash two different narrative. The indian side is claiming no violations and the use of standoff munitions...no interception whatever. It is the ISPR claim that IAF jettisoned "payload" and exited when being intercepted at the LoC where Bale Kote is smack in the middle of the LoC.


India call AJ&K as Her Part ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, So for them staying in AJ&K or flying over AJ&K is not the violation of IB...…. 
Khawaja Asif (ex-minister of defence ) said indian violated 30km to 40km …….. Just now in National assembly.


----------



## Great Janjua

enquencher said:


> Told u go watch psl. Or maybe pogo


Why are you even here I thought rat poison had taken its affect.


----------



## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100292261991141377


----------



## maximuswarrior

graphican said:


> India tried intrusion at 3am
> Bahawalpur region
> Intersepted by PAF F16s.
> Yindus ran away without any further activity.
> Falcons did two air blasts after.



LOL Yindus. I love it.

Cowards ran away without doing anything effective.


----------



## 313ghazi

CHACHA"G" said:


> So we don't have enough Air crafts ……… Why not PAF buy J-10s...……….. Bro Indian violated 10 km restriction( forbidden area for aircrafts) ……..Then they came about 5 KM inside Pakistan...….. Launched standoff munition and hit KPK...… And then went back...….
> Where was PAF???????????? Where were our Airdefence ???????? What about SAMs(MANPADs) on Frontline of LOC.,,,,,,,,,??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> I am so fuking pisssssssseeeeeeeedddddddddd now..



Lol relax. The most powerful weapon in Pakistan armed forces is ISPR, keeping up the propaganda game. 

Clearly they were unprepared and got caught out. Bombing or dropped payload its the same thing. They should have been shot at the moment they entered our airspace.

Truth is PAF, if they were active at all avoided using such an aggressive tactic and handed India a propaganda victory.

Realistically what will they do now that isn't considered an escalation or utterly pointless?

Firing on LoC? More Sniper tactics? Strikes on Indian bunkers - ye to roz ki baat hai. 

Perhaps they will bomb Indian army camps or strike at IAF fob. For what reason will they escalate? Because of dropped fuel tanks a few KM over a disputed border? 

The only option for action was then and they blew it.

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## lightoftruth

Areesh said:


> Random sources. Would be clear in few hours.
> 
> 
> 
> KPK claim is a lie. Would be proven soon.
> 
> Rsst you would be whining after first few days of celebration. Just like last surgical strikes.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100294120747290624we are very clear,
we did a deep hit in KPK.


----------



## Mentee

Dazzler said:


> 5 miles is a deep strike? the buffer zone is more than that.
> 
> Here is your deep strike:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728


Ispr and the studs in the paf can suck it up. They came in they dropped their payload in "haste" and our airforce dint give two hoots about it Paf lost all my respects.

These are the kind of situations where we expect them to react not on Twitter.
Hilaatay rho. 
Bs 3 mile andar ay thy bs aik bomb Gira tree line p.

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## pakdefender

Kashmir Banay Ga Pakistan!


----------



## Great Janjua

enquencher said:


> Yes m here to see rats on otherside of loc winning n running helter skelter to save their backs


Nice try.... chuhay


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Areesh said:


> Accept what??
> 
> That they bombed kpk which never happened??
> 
> As I said you xan whine all you want. Nobody else is supposed to accept it.


Khawaja asif said India violated 30km to 40km in national assembly ….. turn on tv...…….


----------



## Areesh

lightoftruth said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100294120747290624we are very clear,
> we did a deep hit in KPK.



If that is true. Be prepare to whine in next few days.

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## Osiris

Areesh said:


> It is right at loc. Divided village. On both sides.



No its not. Besides your ISPR is claiming the intrusion was Muzzafarabad sector. Bala kote which lies on Indian side of LOC lies in Poonch sector, they are more than 100 KMs apart.


----------



## enquencher

Ab ki mard e momin wali baat.
Make him dgispr he is more brave n strong

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100293358218563584


----------



## Canuck786

EDIT: Not liking how this is turning out to be. Please remember this is a Pakistan Defence Forum and I being it's member, am always ready to uphold Pakistan's honor. I may want our forces to react in a certain manner and because I trust and respect them, may occasionally show my displeasure on the way they take longer to respond than I expect them to, does not take away the 200% support for our brave forces.

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## Areesh

CHACHA"G" said:


> Khawaja asif said India violated 30km to 40km in national assembly ….. turn on tv...…….



Khwaja asif


----------



## bafxet

Arsalan 345 said:


> we lost pride.we should retaliate otherwise accept indian dominance.


Agreed....Where is that dam fool Sh Rasheed?


----------



## enquencher

Areesh said:


> If that is true. Be prepare to whine in next few days.


Chacha we are waiting for u..welcome


----------



## dray / Rain Man

Areesh said:


> KPK claim is a lie. Would be proven soon.



KPK claim is a fact, YusiY Azhar has been killed in it. But anyways, our fighter jets have gone into the Pakistani territory and bombed it, shows the state of Pakistan's air defence. And all we are getting in response is a debate over the location of Balakot? We expect better..

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Areesh

Osiris said:


> No its not. Besides your ISPR is claiming the intrusion was Muzzafarabad sector. Bala kote which lies on Indian side of LOC lies in Poonch sector, they are more than 100 KMs apart.



Situation would be clear in next few hours. And if it is kpk

Then you would whine like before. I am confident.


----------



## Mentee

Court martial this paf Air Chief and those commanders responsible to react.

bring someone with a spine to retaliate however little it may be
@MastanKhan

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## lightoftruth

Areesh said:


> If that is true. Be prepare to whine in next few days.


We are waiting.


----------



## pakdefender

enquencher said:


> Chacha we are waiting for u..welcome



We wont keep you waiting for long

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## Mentee

Areesh said:


> Situation would be clear in next few hours. And if it is kpk
> 
> Then you would whine like before. I am confident.


Bro they fuckin came in at their will and our "gods" didn't do diddly squat. For how long we gonna keep pampering them.

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## Areesh

dray / Rain Man said:


> KPK claim is a fact, YusiY Azhar has been killed in it. But anyways, our fighter jets have gone into the Pakistani territory and bombed it, shows the state of Pakistan's air defence. And all we are getting in response is a debate over the location of Balakot? We expect better..



Nobody killed from our side. Might be another fake name by Indian media. 

It took your military 12 days to destroy few trees after losing 44 men. Obviously we would take some time to avenge our trees.


----------



## Jackdaws

bafxet said:


> Agreed....Where is that dam fool Sh Rasheed?


He has gone to the local Mandir to bajao some ghantis.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

lightoftruth said:


> We broke your defences that were supposedly on High Alert, moved way ahead till KPK ,bombed it and came back safely.
> Call it air kabaddi or whatever to save your dignity, we won't strip it away .
> We got what we wanted.



You did not attack KP. If you did, you would have thousands of tribesman and irregulars heading to Kashmir right now.

Just relax and enjoy the fact that you killed some Pakistani trees.

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## Areesh

enquencher said:


> Chacha we are waiting for u..welcome



You won't wait for long. 

You took 12 days to destroy few trees after losing 44 men

We would obviously take some time too to avenge those few trees.

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## BijliKhala

CHACHA"G" said:


> Khawaja asif said India violated 30km to 40km in national assembly ….. turn on tv...…….



So, do u want to believe Khawaja Asif or Asif Ghafoor?


----------



## Arsalan 345

bafxet said:


> Agreed....Where is that dam fool Sh Rasheed?



I don't know.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Arsalan 345 said:


> saddest day of my life.



So dramatic, janab.

Allah taala pe bharosa Karo.

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## Areesh

Mentee said:


> Bro they fuckin came in at their will and our "gods" didn't do diddly squat. For how long we gonna keep pampering them.



Action would be taken. And bharatis would whine. 

That is a guarantee. Give some time to military. They would make bharatis whine.

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## M. Sarmad

No casualties on the Pakistani side. 
An act of war nonetheless. 
Pakistan *will* retaliate

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## Osiris

Areesh said:


> Situation would be clear in next few hours. And if it is kpk
> 
> Then you would whine like before. I am confident.



Your establishment already axed its own foot, they are just too eager for face saving.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

dray / Rain Man said:


> KPK claim is a fact, YusiY Azhar has been killed in it. But anyways, our fighter jets have gone into the Pakistani territory and bombed it, shows the state of Pakistan's air defence. And all we are getting in response is a debate over the location of Balakot? We expect better..



False claims. Balakot AJK trees attacked only.

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## Areesh

Osiris said:


> Your establishment already axed its own foot, they are just too eager for face saving.



Not really. The response would be given. And we all know that

Except modi and it's military nobody axed its foot.

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## Cash GK

Mentee said:


> Court martial this paf Air Chief and those commanders responsible to react.
> 
> bring someone with a spine to retaliate however little it may be


hold on if we not clear where they throw bumbs.. it tells alot about credibility of attack. don’t you think.. two three miles getting into area is not big thing for jet who fly 900 km per hours


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

lightoftruth said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100294120747290624we are very clear,
> we did a deep hit in KPK.







The source above is indian. Therefore highly likely to be propaganda. Unless proven by an INDEPENDENT, RELIABLE, GENUINE & INDEPENDENT Source.

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## KhalaiMakhlooq

im just going to say what everyones thinking but what no one wants to say. 

can someone just send a few transports to Afghanistan load em up with locals and AK47s and drop them into IoK

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## The Sandman

Mentee said:


> Court martial this paf Air Chief and those commanders responsible to react.
> 
> bring someone with a spine to retaliate however little it may be
> @MastanKhan


Check this out





They ATTACKED PAKISTAN bro DG ISPR confirmed Indian claims this is just pure embarrassment for us they violated our sovereignty yr  PAF show some spine FOR GOD SAKES This is an act of war

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## Mentee

Areesh said:


> Action would be taken. And bharatis would whine.
> 
> That is a guarantee. Give some time to military. They would make bharatis whine.



They still need time to react? I thought targets are already selected and painted red in peacetime?


----------



## Mace

Must have been part of the back channel deal. India hits some camps. Pak makes some noise for few days. Win-win. We sleep well


Imran Khan said:


> I am enjoying both sides bla bla




Imran Bhai, your wait is over. 

Looks like India did not wait for another terrorist incident after all to strike back. Ghar me guske maar diya barabar!!


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

KhalaiMakhlooq said:


> im just going to say what everyones thinking but what no one wants to say.
> 
> can someone just send a few transports to Afghanistan load em up with locals and AK47s and drop them into IoK



Pakistan tit for tat is coming, in sha Allah. Let Indians shake in their boots.

It would be nice to take some hills and gain new ground.

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## enquencher

Areesh said:


> You won't wait for long.
> 
> You took 12 days to destroy few trees after losing 44 men
> 
> We would obviously take some time too to avenge those few trees.


U know y 12days. Acorrding to hindcu customs 13th that is teravi is day of mourning


----------



## Mentee

The Sandman said:


> Check this out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They ATTACKED PAKISTAN bro DG ISPR confirmed Indian claims this is just pure embarrassment for us they violated our sovereignty yr  PAF show some spine FOR GOD SAKES This is an act of war


No ducks given by paf studs


----------



## maximuswarrior

There is only one response here folks. Write it down.

Arm the Kashmiris and do it in such a fashion that everyone gets the message.


----------



## pakdefender

dray / Rain Man said:


> KPK claim is a fact, YusiY Azhar has been killed in it. But anyways, our fighter jets have gone into the Pakistani territory and bombed it, shows the state of Pakistan's air defence. And all we are getting in response is a debate over the location of Balakot? We expect better..



OK so you have figured out now that Pakistan's Air Defence is weak so now it should be open season on Pakistan right ? I mean now you have figured it out that there is no Air Defence , so IAF should by now have been flying sorties non-stop and taking out targets all over the place , why they did a little drama and went away.

If I find out that you have no air defense , I will bomb you day in day out 7 days a week till you are on your knees , so tell me whats the real story ?


----------



## lightoftruth

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> You did not attack KP. If you did, you would have thousands of tribesman and irregulars heading to Kashmir right now.
> 
> Just relax and enjoy the fact that you killed some Pakistani trees.


should've would've or what not
We did and came back just fine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100289730669875201


----------



## Sugarcane

M. Sarmad said:


> No casualties on the Pakistani side.
> An act of war nonetheless.
> Pakistan *will* retaliate



Pak: Airspace violation vs India: Attack on terrorists camp
Pak: No causalities vs India: thousands of terrorists killed
Pak: Open field vs India: Jem launch pad
Pak: No retaliation needed vs India : Pak is afraid

India won hands down


----------



## maximuswarrior

lightoftruth said:


> should've would've or what not
> We did and came back just fine.



Zero casualties. What kind of an operation was this?



Sugarcane said:


> Pak: Airspace violation vs India: Attack on terrorists camp
> Pak: No causalities vs India: thousands of terrorists killed
> Pak: Open field vs India: Jem launch pad
> Pak: No retaliation needed vs India : Pak is afraid
> 
> India won hands down



This is not a win, but a desperate move for elections. Modi was desperate to make a move. He did, but what did he achieve? There are no casualties and the payload was emptied in a hurry. The only think that the Indians could claim is that IAF violated our airspace.

Pakistan should respond with a calm head here. The response should be to arm and further highlight Kashmir.

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## lightoftruth

maximuswarrior said:


> Zero casualties. What kind of an operation was this?


We were busy bombing not counting .
Your defence forces know it but their self esteem might not allow them to reveal it.


----------



## Count Dracula

Yeh tauba tauba ka waqat hai

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## ARMalik

So here is the thing - the Indian airforce planes violated Pakistan airspace, and they were *NOT SHOT down*. To allow this to happen is *a big failure of PAF *and they need to be *ashamed of themselves *for even allowing India to cross the border. This is Pathetic performance and I squarely blame it on the PAF Chief. This PAF chief needs to be *fired and replaced *with some who has the *courage *to shoot down enemies inside Pakistan's territory.

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## pakdefender

lightoftruth said:


> We were busy bombing not counting .
> Your defence forces know it but their self esteem might not allow them to reveal it.



Why did you stop the bombing if you were left unchallenged ( as you claim ) in your little adventure ?


----------



## maximuswarrior

lightoftruth said:


> We were busy bombing not counting .
> Your defence forces know it but their self esteem might not allow them to reveal it.



LOL bombing in a hurry it seems. Zero casualties. Looks like someone was chasing you.


----------



## lightoftruth

pakdefender said:


> Why did you stop the bombing if you were left unchallenged ( as you claim ) in your little adventure ?


We finished the objective of our mission.
right question is what was PAF doing Sleeping or just scared ?


----------



## KhalaiMakhlooq

ARMalik said:


> So here is the thing - the Indian airforce planes violated Pakistan airspace, and they were *NOT SHOT down*. To allow this to happen is *a big failure of PAF *and they need to be *ashamed of themselves *for even allowing India to cross the border. This is Pathetic performance and I squarely blame it on the PAF Chief. This PAF chief needs to be *fired and replaced *with some who has the *courage *to shoot down enemies inside Pakistan's territory.



no, it was a big FAILURE FOR INDIA...

they had one chance....they should have carpet bombed the whole place, every unit and every base...

remember a violation is only a violation. bit of a waste to only attack a tree.

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## enquencher

lightoftruth said:


> We finished the objective of our mission.
> right question is what was PAF doing Sleeping or just scared ?


Watching psl

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## pakdefender

lightoftruth said:


> We finished the objective of our mission.
> right question is what was PAF doing Sleeping or just scared ?



And your objective was what , bomb a tree ? that's the only picture we have seen thus far


----------



## Amigator

Count Dracula said:


> Yeh tauba tauba ka waqat hai


Ji tmhare jhot per toba kerne ka waqt hai. Most Idiot Nation ka title Apka hoa


----------



## Maxpane

Chhatrapati said:


> While we shake in our boots. Enjoy a demonstrative clip


bhai this jf 17


----------



## F86 Saber

lightoftruth said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100294120747290624we are very clear,
> we did a deep hit in KPK.



If and i am saying If this is true, it would be unwise on the part of Indian public to be celebrating the end of subcontinent as we know it. Mark my words....


----------



## Amigator

Chhatrapati said:


> While we shake in our boots. Enjoy a demonstrative clip


Ye hai kya tha, Flares Dispensing Competition on an unknown place!

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## Chhatrapati

Maxpane said:


> bhai this jf 17


I know that. Do read again, I said demonstrative.


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## Maxpane

Chhatrapati said:


> I know that. Do read again, I said demonstrative.


oh ok bhai


----------



## Abu Zarrar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100280439724560384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100278579605041152


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## CHACHA"G"

BijliKhala said:


> So, do u want to believe Khawaja Asif or Asif Ghafoor?


He said it in Natinal Assmbely………. And Ex defence minster ………. Yes I will believe him...……… Asif Ghafoor can keep his lies to him...………. IAF violated 10km restriction and came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan and bomb , this is what he(Asif Ghafoor) already said...… so ………………………………………….. *FACT IS ..*It means IAF did bomb Pakistan...…….. Now ISPR can try best to change the fact...………..

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## I.R.A

Imran Khan said:


> I am enjoying both sides bla bla



It appears Pakistan did modi a big time favor. If you are aware one of Pakistani politicians Ramesh Kumar recently visited india and met modi and his people, and came back with a positive response, the way DG ISPR has accepted and tweeted and the way indian military has remained silent ......... the only losers here are gullible indians who get to stoke their false bravado and Pakistanis with their hurt ego.


----------



## valkyr_96

CHACHA"G" said:


> India call AJ&K as Her Part ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, So for them staying in AJ&K or flying over AJ&K is not the violation of IB...….
> Khawaja Asif (ex-minister of defence ) said indian violated 30km to 40km …….. Just now in National assembly.


 That is incorrect the LoC is the same for both India has pushed to called it IB but it has not stuck and Khawaja Asif is lying It was the idiot mosharraf Zaidi that said it put was corrected both by the indian journalist and the ISPR. Dude I have had previous conversations with you too and even then you were lying and exhibiting taxi driver mentality. Khawaja Asif has no expertise in defense matters (so what if he was an ex) and cannot even distinguish between a city in KPK Balakot and a village on the LoC Bala kote. Please do not quote me again. PMLN is exhibiting it traitorous design every since Nawaz Sharif was sent to jail.

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## Jf Thunder

Indians are surprised alright 
surprised at the lack of response from our side 

meanwhile PAF has acquired land for the "National Interest" and is now busy converting it into a housing colony

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## Mentee

M. Sarmad said:


> No casualties on the Pakistani side.
> An act of war nonetheless.
> Pakistan *will* retaliate



Bhai biryani Khao jog kro or so Jao.



Dazzler said:


> 5 miles is a deep strike? the buffer zone is more than that.
> 
> Here is your deep strike:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100231826348617728



PAF be like 
Ib k Mario phr btayy gy

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## CHACHA"G"

valkyr_96 said:


> That is incorrect the LoC is the same for both India has pushed to called it IB but it has not stuck and Khawaja Asif is lying It was the idiot mosharraf Zaidi that said it put was corrected both by the indian journalist and the ISPR. Dude I have had previous conversations with you too and even then you were lying and exhibiting taxi driver mentality. Khawaja Asif has no expertise in defense matters (so what if he was an ex) and cannot even distinguish between a city in KPK Balakot and a village on the LoC Bala kote. Please do not quote me again. PMLN is exhibiting it traitorous design every since Nawaz Sharif was sent to jail.


Me a taxi driver and you hiding behind ids. general sab.. ..…….. lol go fuk your self ,,,,,,,, Indian bombed Pakistan...…. *That is the fact*...……… Indian Air force violated 10 km restriction area on LOC for air crafts …….. FACT...………. Indian air force came in Pakistan 4 to 5 miles according to your ISPR ……. FACT...………. now stop your randi rona…… stop hiding behind ids.....
*Stop crying on location ………… They came , the bomb and they went back...….. *

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## ARMalik

*All Australia media *is reporting that India has carried out attacks inside Pakistan. If Australia media is reporting this, then let there be no doubt that ALL WESTERN media is reporting this. Once again, these goons in *PAF have given the Indians a psychological upper *hand by not shooting down these indian jets which crossed over international borders. DG ISPR in his tweets has *ADMITTED *to Indian jets crossing over international border. *This is extremely disgraceful. *


https://www.sbs.com.au/news/india-says-air-strikes-were-targeting-militant-camps-in-pakistan

*India says its air force has struck militant camps inside Pakistan-ruled Kashmir, while Pakistan said the incident caused no casulaties or damage.*

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## pakdefender

ARMalik said:


> *All Australia media *is reporting that India has carried out attacks inside Pakistan. If Australia media is reporting this, then let there be no doubt that ALL WESTERN media is reporting this. Once again, these goons in *PAF have given the Indians a psychological upper *hand by not shooting down these indian jets which crossed over international borders. DG ISPR in his tweets has *ADMITTED *to Indian jets crossing over international border. *This is extremely disgraceful. *
> 
> 
> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/india-says-air-strikes-were-targeting-militant-camps-in-pakistan
> 
> *India says its air force has struck militant camps inside Pakistan-ruled Kashmir, while Pakistan said the incident caused no casulaties or damage.*



if only wars could be won through photo shop and twitter 

and also https links 

In 2009 there was an Australian analyst making gas that "Pakistan will collapse in 6 months" , indians were very happy to hear that ofcourse
https://www.smh.com.au/world/warnin...-of-collapse-within-months-20090412-a40u.html 


> PAKISTAN could collapse within months, one of the more influential counter-insurgency voices in Washington says.



Hausala karain , twitter and phtoshop and youtube is not where wars are decided

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## Beskar

CRPF should be a declared a terrorist organization since their hands are drenched in the blood of innocent Kashmiris.

All CRPF locations must be declared terrorist launchpads and the ones close to the LOC should be targeted.

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## Ryuzaki

First confirmation from Pakistan of Strike by Indian Air Force. BBC Urdu video from Jaba Post, Balakot, KPK where a local says that there were 5 big blasts after 3am at night followed by Jets leaving within 10 minutes. Many casualties and several injured. How can Pakistan deny?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136


enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100290322888908801God dam we did not show the dji phantom drone like ispr



Looks like Burraq drone

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## Areesh

enquencher said:


> U know y 12days. Acorrding to hindcu customs 13th that is teravi is day of mourning



In Islam we are only allowed to mourn for 3 days. But since we lost only few trees so hopefully we won't let you wait much.

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## SpArK

Thunderdome said:


> CRPF should be a declared a terrorist organization since their hands are drenched in the blood of innocent Kashmiris.
> 
> All CRPF locations must be declared terrorist launchpads and the ones close to the LOC should be targeted.



You are free to declare it so on all your provinces.

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## RPK

Thunderdome said:


> CRPF should be a declared a terrorist organization since their hands are drenched in the blood of innocent Kashmiris.
> 
> All CRPF locations must be declared terrorist launchpads and the ones close to the LOC should be targeted.


ISPR said no damage done. CRPF is Govt of India organisation and police force


----------



## Riz

ARMalik said:


> *All Australia media *is reporting that India has carried out attacks inside Pakistan. If Australia media is reporting this, then let there be no doubt that ALL WESTERN media is reporting this. Once again, these goons in *PAF have given the Indians a psychological upper *hand by not shooting down these indian jets which crossed over international borders. DG ISPR in his tweets has *ADMITTED *to Indian jets crossing over international border. *This is extremely disgraceful. *
> 
> 
> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/india-says-air-strikes-were-targeting-militant-camps-in-pakistan
> 
> *India says its air force has struck militant camps inside Pakistan-ruled Kashmir, while Pakistan said the incident caused no casulaties or damage.*


They can... Their lie can be accepted because they announced we are hitting terrorists hideouts in Pakistan ... Now what we are going to satisfy.. That which targets pak want to hit??? Thats where we been always caught with pant down.. And thats why JUD JEM are harmful for us


----------



## The wheel of time

Cookie Monster said:


> Hum apnay ground radars ko khotay se baandh k ghumatay hain kya?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's 2019...for the most part all assets like fighter jets/AWACS/ground radars paint a combined realtime picture of Pakistan's airspace. Learn something before uttering nonsense.



mate i think you are expecting mig21s and 27s from our side, but let me tel you our systems are far too superior than yours. You will get mki, mirage 2000 and mig29s instead.


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## Areesh

Riz said:


> Enemy accepting the attack on Pakistan not on the disputed territory... We can use this as our advantage



Exactly. Pakistan should respond. There is no other option.

Give them response. And give them bloody one. 

Or else shut down the military and PAF. We don't need them.

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## Mentee

Someone used to say something about giving some bloody nose to someone - - - - - let's make pakistan invincible by initiating another housing society

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## Areesh

Riz said:


> They can... Their lie can be accepted because they announced we are hitting terrorists hideouts in Pakistan ... Now what we are going to satisfy.. That which targets pak want to hit??? Thats where we been always caught with pant down.. And thats why JUD JEM are harmful for us



IAF should be the target. Fire missiles and PGM on random airstrips etc

India has done an act of aggression. Pakistan response should be same.

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## Basel

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> With all the awacs that the Paf has---the incursion of the IAF aircraft would be known with enough warning to strike back---.
> 
> But like Abbotabad---the 'radars' were shut down---.
> 
> Paf---zindabad---. Put me to shame Paf---do some retaliation and do a good job at it---.



You are right, the reponse of Pakistani military was casual and as per peace time not as per war time.

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## The wheel of time

airmarshal said:


> My question is why would they want to intrude when they can easily use stand off weapons fired deep inside Indian airspace.
> 
> The only reason to come close to LoC would be to test adversary's response and calibrate IAF's approach and targeting.
> 
> I give credence to this new only because DG-ISPR tweeted about it.



I am not talking about the tweet but that stupid youtube video. And yes, if this is true that means IAF jets came to test your preparedness and response time.


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

maximuswarrior said:


> Zero casualties. What kind of an operation was this?
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a win, but a desperate move for elections. Modi was desperate to make a move. He did, but what did he achieve? There are no casualties and the payload was emptied in a hurry. The only think that the Indians could claim is that IAF violated our airspace.
> 
> Pakistan should respond with a calm head here. The response should be to arm and further highlight Kashmir.


And, let Modi smoothly win with a free hand over India.....

I have been alarmed seeing the Gandhis in the campaign trails...

_Don't undermine a tiger cub, one day she might return as a ferocious tigress - Jengiz Han_


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## Bilal Khan 777

Pakistan should not engage with an idiot regime and their media war to manipulate their own people for election. The response from pakistan is measured, mature, and proper. Proud of our boys.

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## Ahassan

no off ... 90% of members here live abroad and want to fight India! ... Bhai ... they didn't drop any ... bombs ... its just like (... someone entered your Lawn .... burn some part of your grass ... and ran away....) .... itni tension lainay ki zarorat nae hai ...


----------



## Riz

Areesh said:


> Exactly. Pakistan should respond. There is no other option.
> 
> Give them response. And give them bloody one.
> 
> Or else shut down the military and PAF. We don't need them.


This time of we not give answers.. Then be ready for their stupid logic everyday on every forum... Just reply them with full power that they fukken idiots dont even think to dream for attack pak in next decade


----------



## Areesh

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Pakistan should not engage with an idiot regime and their media war to manipulate their own people for election. The response from pakistan is measured, mature, and proper. Proud of our boys.



Proud of what??

That they let those goons bomb some trees that exist on Pakistani territory.

What kind of pride is that?

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## ARMalik

pakdefender said:


> if only wars could be won through photo shop and twitter
> 
> and also https links



You can try making a serious issue into a joke, you can laugh all you want and make cheap passing jokes. But the matter of fact is that once again the imagine of this country has taken *another major hit* - *everyone is calling it a terrorist heaven again*. All thanks to God damn PAF for sleeping and allowing these jets to intrude over the international boundary. *Pathetic. *


----------



## Mani2020

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Pakistan should not engage with an idiot regime and their media war to manipulate their own people for election. The response from pakistan is measured, mature, and proper. Proud of our boys.



Hats off to you!! If this is what you call maturity. Then it requires 3-4 such maturities from PAF too loose this land .

Keep up the mature work !!!

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## Sine Nomine

Areesh said:


> Exactly. Pakistan should respond. There is no other option.
> 
> Give them response. And give them bloody one.
> 
> Or else shut down the military and PAF. We don't need them.


You think so,we need Reinhard Heydrich to clean.


----------



## Areesh

Riz said:


> This time of we not give answers.. Then be ready for their stupid logic everyday on every forum... Just reply them with full power that they fukken idiots dont even think to dream for attack pak in next decade



Exactly. Today they claimed to bomb KPK. Tomorrow they would bomb some random place in Punjab or Sindh for some other reason.

Time to act. And time to act strong. FU*ck these b@stards



MUSTAKSHAF said:


> You think so,we need Reinhard Heydrich to clean.



This is what happens when you led burger kids becoming air chiefs and all that.

I won't support Imran khan ever again if he doesn't act. F*ck everything.

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## Menace2Society

The headline should be PAF shoot down intruding jets. Capture combatant.

Not showing us f*king pictures and acknowedging they crossed border and left without issue. What is this, is this an army?

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## RoYaL~GuJJaR

Ryuzaki said:


> First confirmation from Pakistan of Strike by Indian Air Force. BBC Urdu video from Jaba Post, Balakot, KPK where a local says that there were 5 big blasts after 3am at night followed by Jets leaving within 10 minutes. Many casualties and several injured. How can Pakistan deny?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136
> 
> 
> Looks like Burraq drone


Are arey ye kya post krdiya?? Ab kaisey deny krengey ye log? Ab b bolengey k ye balkot,KPK wala nahi tha??

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## Mani2020

Ahassan said:


> no off ... 90% of members here live abroad and want to fight India! ... Bhai ... they didn't drop any ... bombs ... its just like (... someone entered your Lawn .... burn some part of your grass ... and ran away....) .... itni tension lainay ki zarorat nae hai ...



What an irony is this !!! I wonder if next time someone sneaks in your house, burns your lawn. would you let him go unharmed? and if you would, what makes you think he wouldnt show up again?

Strange analogy !!!


----------



## Riz

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Pakistan should not engage with an idiot regime and their media war to manipulate their own people for election. The response from pakistan is measured, mature, and proper. Proud of our boys.


Very sad response from the most senior members of the forum....WTF why we need to just sit & watch their aggression just because if we reply modi will be in power again...? Hilarious

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## Sine Nomine

Areesh said:


> This is what happens when you led burger kids becoming air chiefs and all that.
> 
> I won't support Imran khan ever again if he doesn't act. F*ck everything.


That all started when Mush did came.
Indians won't stop.


----------



## Ensiurage

What's the issue ? JeM is terror outfit. Pak should've handled it. Were any civilians killed?


----------



## Republic

Sabretooth said:


> I may be reaching but I find the timing of Nawaz Sharif's bail plea rejection and this touch-and-go incursion suspicious diversion. That bald douche have friends in high places and comes to his rescue whenever he is in a tight spot.



Bloody hell. From where did you pull out this piece of gem ?

I seriously suggest you should start writing some fictions. You are qualified to write a best seller one.


----------



## Mentee

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Pakistan should not engage with an idiot regime and their media war to manipulate their own people for election. The response from pakistan is measured, mature, and proper. Proud of our boys.



You guys have been all talk for all these years. Be it obl be it salala and now this. 
Go make a selfie which you lot are good at. Ghyrat nae aati?

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## Cookie Monster

The wheel of time said:


> mate i think you are expecting mig21s and 27s from our side, but let me tel you our systems are far too superior than yours. You will get mki, mirage 2000 and mig29s instead.


I'm not expecting Mig21s or Mig27s. I'm well aware of the capabilities of Su30 MKI, Mirage 2000, Mig 29s, and Jaguars. They are nothing PAF can't handle. F16s and JF17s either match or come very close to match those capabilities. In addition on a defensive role when facing Indian incursions...PAF will have the added benefit of operating under the enhanced radar coverage of AWACS and ground radars and IAF jets will also face the threat of SAMs on top of PAF(depending on where they intrude).

Do go and read up on the capabilities of MKIs, Mirage 2000s, and Mig 29s. Then read up on F16s and JF17s.


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## Menace2Society

PAF chief should resign.

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## Areesh

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> That all started when Mush did came.
> Indians won't stop.



Exactly. The liberal bullsh!t from musharraf has damaged Pakistan a lot

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## Mani2020

Riz said:


> Very sad response from the most senior members of the forum....WTF why we need to just sit & watch their aggression just because if we reply modi will be in power again...? Hilarious



Bhai they are currently occupied with housing schemes so dont disturb them. That is the other mature thing they are doing other than being sleepy ... Most of the top tier has houses abroad. Its ordinary people like you an me who are at risk.

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## BijliKhala

CHACHA"G" said:


> He said it in Natinal Assmbely………. And Ex defence minster ………. Yes I will believe him...……… Asif Ghafoor can keep his lies to him...………. IAF violated 10km restriction and came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan and bomb , this is what he(Asif Ghafoor) already said...… so ………………………………………….. *FACT IS ..*It means IAF did bomb Pakistan...…….. Now ISPR can try best to change the fact...………..



Abay chaachay, no proof of IAF bombing released by Indians. Get this in your thick shell..


----------



## atya

Riz said:


> Very sad response from the most senior members of the forum....WTF why we need to just sit & watch their aggression just because if we reply modi will be in power again...? Hilarious


Exactly, who cares if Modi is in power again. He is helping in the destruction of India, 5 more years please.


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## Mani2020

Areesh said:


> Proud of what??
> 
> That they let those goons bomb some trees that exist on Pakistani territory.
> 
> What kind of pride is that?



This is what you call face saving mate!!!! F-16s are only good to be painted on trucks and Jf-17 are only good for air shows. Dont disturb them, they are busy developing housing schemes . Only contact them if you want to buy a plot a hefty price ...

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## Novice09

Areesh said:


> Action would be taken. And bharatis would whine.
> 
> That is a guarantee. Give some time to military. They would make bharatis whine.





ARMalik said:


> You can try making a serious issue into a joke, you can laugh all you want and make cheap passing jokes. But the matter of fact is that once again the imagine of this country has taken *another major hit* - *everyone is calling it a terrorist heaven again*. All thanks to God damn PAF for sleeping and allowing these jets to intrude over the international boundary. *Pathetic. *





RoYaL~GuJJaR said:


> Are arey ye kya post krdiya?? Ab kaisey deny krengey ye log? Ab b bolengey k ye balkot,KPK wala nahi tha??



Agony : Date and time of tweet...

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## Army research

CHACHA"G" said:


> *They came 4 to 5 miles inside Pakistan...…………….. They bombed (whatever) …………. They went back …………. They even had lock on JF-17(who knows) ………..
> My Question is...……..
> Where were our SAM system...….. Where was our Air Defence...….
> *
> @MastanKhan , @Tps43 , @graphican , @django , @Zarvan , @Imran Khan , @Moonlight , @ghazi52 , @Rafi , @Windjammer , @Yaseen1 , @Path-Finder , @war&peace , @AZADPAKISTAN2009 , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zibago …… @Enigma_


Bloody paf


----------



## enquencher

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Pakistan should not engage with an idiot regime and their media war to manipulate their own people for election. The response from pakistan is measured, mature, and proper. Proud of our boys.


Lol same regime will be for nxt 5 years ..u keep on showing ur maturity meanwhile we keep bombing u..u are too funny man

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## Ahassan

Mani2020 said:


> What an irony is this !!! I wonder if next time someone sneaks in your house, burns your lawn. would you let him go unharmed? and if you would, what makes you think he wouldnt show up again?
> 
> Strange analogy !!!




what if he sends cracker to my house .... should i kill him??? for doing that .... have you fought any wars ....battles ???? or seen 1 ???? we always respond when we are provoked .... India wanted a full scale WAR not a 3min battle .... ask them where and when will india attack Pakistan.?


----------



## Mentee

I though it's the Indian army hiding behind their political elite but it turned out to be otherwise. Paf is a source of national embarrassment.


----------



## pakdefender

Ryuzaki said:


> First confirmation from Pakistan of Strike by Indian Air Force. BBC Urdu video from Jaba Post, Balakot, KPK where a local says that there were 5 big blasts after 3am at night followed by Jets leaving within 10 minutes. Many casualties and several injured. How can Pakistan deny?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136
> 
> 
> Looks like Burraq drone



Oy Chutiyay , first Jaba and Kangar are in Azad Kashmir and not in KPK

Second what this man is saying that some random houses were damaged in the blast. Which confirms what DG ISPR said , that india did try to do an intrusion , got detected and jettisoned the ordnance quickly before running back. 

What this man's account confirms is that IAF just dropped some ordnance near Kanagar , Azad Kashmir over civilian houses and then ran away when then got detected. What the man is saying that 5 house were damaged and 1 person go injured.

So thanks for posting this video , it does confirm that india did the intrusion and randomly dropped 3-4 bombs which hit 4 or 5 civilian houses and 1 person got injured , this is what this man is saying.


It strengthens Pakistan's position and will make retaliation against India that much more easier to package and execute

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## Arsalan 345

we don't know why they didn't target indian fighter jets.it is very embarrassing.


----------



## Bindas

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">First confirmation from Pakistan of Strike by Indian Air Force. BBC Urdu video from Jaba Post, Balakot, KPK where a local says that there were 5 big blasts after 3am at night followed by Jets leaving within 10 minutes. Many casualties and several injured. How can Pakistan deny? <a href="https://t.co/izac7IGFsR">pic.twitter.com/izac7IGFsR</a></p>&mdash; Aditya Raj Kaul (@AdityaRajKaul) <a href="

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136">February 26, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



So strike was at jaba post. how far is it from loc. ?

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## Areesh

Novice09 said:


> Agony : Date and time of tweet...
> 
> View attachment 541923



Response is coming

Wait for it


----------



## maximuswarrior

Chhatrapati said:


> While we shake in our boots. Enjoy a demonstrative clip



LOL this is nothing compared to this:







You only struck trees.

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## Areesh

Mani2020 said:


> This is what you call face saving mate!!!! F-16s are only good to be painted on trucks and Jf-17 are only good for air shows. Dont disturb them, they are busy developing housing schemes . Only contact them if you want to buy a plot a hefty price ...



Well response can be given even now

I hope we don't see the same piece bullsh!t again from our side


----------



## Mani2020

Areesh said:


> Response is coming
> 
> Wait for it


Bhai na mazak kr... we have already been trolled quite badly ...


----------



## atya

Hope the response isn't just verbal diarrhoea.


----------



## CHACHA"G"

BijliKhala said:


> Abay chaachay, no proof of IAF bombing released by Indians. Get this in your thick shell..


Abbay bachay your DG ISPR said , IAF crossed LOC , drooped payload ( local saying they heard 4 to 5 loud explosions according to bbc urdu)………… 
It is time when you and fanboys and defensive force mentality and man behind the machine not the machine come out of their lala land , their dream land and face the fact and reality...

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## Novice09

Areesh said:


> Response is coming
> 
> Wait for it



I would not boast that my IAF will not let you to enter an inch of Indian Air Space... We will NUKE you...

I have full faith in my armed forces and their capabilities...

Want to raise the bar... welcome...

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## Areesh

Mani2020 said:


> Bhai na mazak kr... we have already been trolled quite badly ...



Lets wait a few days

Don't behave like idiots. We did made them bleed after last surgical strike drama. I am definite something would do this time too


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## Mani2020

Areesh said:


> Well response can be given even now
> 
> I hope we don't see the same piece bullsh!t again from our side



no response and i can bet my life on that. As i wrote earlier paf is not like it used to be back in 60's . In last 2 decades they have done nada. Kargila? OBL raid? 26/11 violation? airbase attack ? They are good for nothing. 

Just chest thumping from fan boys...nothing else. full of corrupt people !!!

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## Devil Soul

A matter of grave concern, all this shouldn't have happened, this will further escalate the tensions & i am really disappointed at the response of PAF.....

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## Areesh

Novice09 said:


> I would not boast that my IAF will not let you to enter an inch of Indian Air Space... We will NUKE you...
> 
> I have full faith in my armed forces and their capabilities...
> 
> Want to raise the bar... welcome...



Same armed forces that are fooling you with same dramas?

Anyways response would come. That is for sure.

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## pzfz

pzfz said:


> Bala Kote (IOK) is already on a map. As is Balakot KP. Balakot village in AJK is barely a village. It's there.



Regions with pahari-speaking


Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> False claims. Balakot AJK trees attacked only.



not necessarily. Just pointing out that there are multiple Balakots and one doesn't even need to cross the LOC in order for something to fall that far away.


----------



## Goku-kun

Novice09 said:


> I would not boast that my IAF will not let you to enter an inch of Indian Air Space... We will NUKE you...
> 
> I have full faith in my armed forces and their capabilities...
> 
> Want to raise the bar... welcome...


Look what your idiot media is sharing and referring those jets as mirage 2000..
this is 2-3 days old video of f-16 which your media is referring as mirage 2000s to promote your fake surgical strike 2.0 LOL..this is pathetic from your side..how down will you go?


----------



## Devil Soul

where the FCK is that TEELI PAWLAWAN DEFENCE MINISTER????? hiding under the bed???

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## Areesh

Mani2020 said:


> no response and i can bet my life on that. As i wrote earlier paf is not like it used to be back in 60's . In last 2 decades they have done nada. Kargila? OBL raid? 26/11 violation? airbase attack ? They are good for nothing.
> 
> Just chest thumping from fan boys...nothing else. full of corrupt people !!!



Well this time they have no excuse. Either give a response or shut down the cr@p


----------



## Azog

Sad day for Pakistan. I'm extremely sad

No matter what you say but this is a failure of Pakistan Air force. They crossed LOC and went back without any damage.

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## CHACHA"G"

Devil Soul said:


> where the FCK is that TEELI PAWLAWAN DEFENCE MINISTER????? hiding under the bed???


Watching PSL...………. Facing NAB...………. or trying to Face NAB ……….


----------



## Areesh

pzfz said:


> The confusion is all on ISPR. Those attacking PAF will be incessant nags regardless.



Got to agree with you

ISPR made a pathetic response after this incident.


----------



## Devil Soul

CHACHA"G" said:


> Watching PSL...………. Facing NAB...………. or trying to Face NAB ……….


Oh i completely forgot about him being busy .....


----------



## Zibago

The point isnt what they did the point is the red line got redefined


----------



## RoYaL~GuJJaR

First confirmation from Pakistan of Strike by Indian Air Force. BBC Urdu video from Jaba Post, Balakot, KPK where a local says that there were 5 big blasts after 3am at night followed by Jets leaving within 10 minutes. Many casualties and several injured. How can Pakistan deny?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136


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## Lincoln

The wheel of time said:


> Oh comeon now, you are talking like a fool now. Perhaps you have no idea of what a flanker is, it will swat f16s like flies. only a foll with a death wish will take a f16 to fight off a flanker. And there is a difference between an enthusiast and a professional. Our air force has evaluated and have rejected the f16 as it does not provide any significant advantage over the existing aircraft of our arsenal.
> 
> And all the countries that you have mentioned are not as powerful militarily as India is, they can do with inferior the aircraft we cannot.



Your AF rejected F16 because they already own Sukhoi's which are slightly better, but that doesn't render F16s obsolete. AlsoAlso , Israel Air Force, Greek Air Forces are not to be messed with, they are there in the top.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you think date of initial production, iaf rejecting f16 since they already have sukhois, is a basis for calling f16s obsolete. Professionals will also call out your sourceless bs.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Chhatrapati said:


> While we shake in our boots. Enjoy a demonstrative clip


Are you blind? Look at the aircraft wings, does that look like a Mirage 2000 to you?


----------



## Mani2020

Areesh said:


> Well this time they have no excuse. Either give a response or shut down the cr@p


And who will push them for this?


----------



## Areesh

Mani2020 said:


> And who will push them for this?



Indians

They have left them with no choice


----------



## Wrath

lightoftruth said:


> We were busy bombing not counting .
> Your defence forces know it but their self esteem might not allow them to reveal it.


You will eat anything your media feeds you , won't you guys . Pity on you


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

RoYaL~GuJJaR said:


> First confirmation from Pakistan of Strike by Indian Air Force. BBC Urdu video from Jaba Post, Balakot, KPK where a local says that there were 5 big blasts after 3am at night followed by Jets leaving within 10 minutes. Many casualties and several injured. How can Pakistan deny?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136


How does "Aik banda zakmi huwa" equal many casualties and several injured?

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## Mani2020

Areesh said:


> Indians
> 
> They have left them with no choice


If that would have been the case, they would have already responded in a way more effective way


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## pakdefender

Even though randi indians are trying yo use this local man's eye witness account for their case , but it in fact weakens their stated position .. lol lol 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136
This is the summary of what he is saying

1. He is resident of Jabba and does zamindaria ( farming) [Jabba is in Azad Kashmir and not in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa]
2. The blasts happened near a place called Kaggar Kattha/Kangar , which is also Azad Kashmir
3. The sound of jets lasted about 10 minutes before going silent
4. 5 loud blasts were heard
5. His relative lives near Kaggar Kattha/Kangar and there 4 or 5 houses got damaged and 1 person got injured.

This account is believable , yes it confirms that India did an intrusion but all the bullshit claims about camps and what not are just that , they are bull shit

This modi pig has over estimated himself this time , this will have consequences for india

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## Ahassan

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> How does "Aik banda zakmi huwa" equal many casualties and several injured?


 was thinking the same ... these Indians exaggerate everything .... kills ant ... = killing lion....


----------



## Sugarcane

pakdefender said:


> Oy Chutiyay , first Jaba and Kangar are in Azad Kashmir and not in KPK
> 
> Second what this man is saying that some random houses were damaged in the blast. Which confirms what DG ISPR said , that india did try to do an intrusion , got detected and jettisoned the ordnance quickly before running back.
> 
> What this man's account confirms is that IAF just dropped some ordnance near Kanagar , Azad Kashmir over civilian houses and then ran away when then got detected. What the man is saying that 5 house were damaged and 1 person go injured.
> 
> So thanks for posting this video , it does confirm that india did the intrusion and randomly dropped 3-4 bombs which hit 4 or 5 civilian houses and 1 person got injured , this is what this man is saying.
> 
> 
> It strengthens Pakistan's position and will make retaliation against India that much more easier to package and execute



How it strengthen cuck position of ISPR who claim that fuel tank dropped in open field and no loss?

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## Wrath

Chhatrapati said:


> While we shake in our boots. Enjoy a demonstrative clip


This video was uploaded on 24th Feb . You guys carried out attacks on 26th Feb. How?? .


----------



## Sabretooth

Republic said:


> Bloody hell. From where did you pull out this piece of gem ?
> 
> I seriously suggest you should start writing some fictions. You are qualified to write a best seller one.



https://timesofislamabad.com/15-Jul...rif-is-in-trouble-terrorism-rises-in-pakistan

Since the reach of Indiots from the western border of Pakistan via proxy terrorists, is now very limited, they are now creating diversions on the eastern front.


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## Areesh

Mani2020 said:


> If that would have been the case, they would have already responded in a way more effective way



Not really. Indians might have released their payload in few seconds. we don't know the exact details except it was a hasty retreat

Anyways a response is imminent. There is no other option.

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## Wrath

Amigator said:


> Ye hai kya tha, Flares Dispensing Competition on an unknown place!


Yes only flares


----------



## pakdefender

Sugarcane said:


> How it strengthen cuck position of ISPR who claim that fuel tank dropped in open field and no loss?



Payload does not mean fuel tank

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## cerberus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136


----------



## Riz

:


atya said:


> Exactly, who cares if Modi is in power again. He is helping in the destruction of India, 5 more years please.


We dont care who is in power in India.. Modi vodi chodi.. We dont fuking care.. We only means our sovereignty


Areesh said:


> Well response can be given even now
> 
> I hope we don't see the same piece bullsh!t again from our side


Respond should be huge ...we are ready for the destruction of our 500+ fighter jets.. Nothing to worry about we can buy new one.. But face saving is important

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## Areesh

Riz said:


> :
> Respond should be huge ...we are ready for the destruction of our 500+ fighter jets.. Nothing to worry about we can buy new one.. But face saving is important



Response should be more than equal

Indians destroyed our trees at one place. We should destroy their trees at 2 places

Simple. Throw the ball in modi's court once again

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## Agha Sher

So disappointed with PAF. All the previous achievements ended with this?

They should have downed those Indians and captured the pilots...

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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100318335986814976


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## SecularNationalist

It was 3:30 in the morning and i heard the sound of fighter flying at a very high speed.I live near airport and at first i thought they are probably commercial jets but when i listened carefully i realized and became certain that they were fighter jets.So they were the ones who responded to LOC violation and islamabad is very close to muzaffarabad. 
And i am very disappointed with the behavior of some members here on PDF who are cursing PAF.PAF responded in the most effective way possible and those saying that the indian jets should be shot down have no idea that we cannot shoot down the jet,s in their own territory.According to my father who was once a PAF pilot said if the jet just take the turn back at high speed it easily covers the distance of 3-4 miles and that,s exactly what happened ,the jet,s came in and quickly take a turn back ,they just wanted a little drama of another Sir ji kal strike and they did not have any target.What,s more embarrassing for them is that they dropped their payloads in hurry when the saw the quick response of PAF.What a dishonorable thing is for a soldier to drop his ammo and rifle in the battlefield without putting up a fight.So guys it is now obvious the indian government and indians are very desperate these days and they themselves are doing a pretty fine job of embarrassing themselves over and over again.No need to even respond to such funny news.And top of that the less informed people should appreciate their air force not criticize it.We are well armed with BVR(beyond visual range) missiles but since the incursion was very short one ,by the time our jets were in the air ,the indian jets were back in the indian air space.And if we shot them in india then we would have violated the same international law india violated and hence lose the diplomatic support which india has lost.
Nothing is going to happen this is just another cycle of news and hype.War is out of the question.

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## pakdefender

cerberus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136



"Many Causalities" ? not really , he's saying that 1 man got injured and 5 houses damaged. He's a farmer and his relative's place got damaged.

India attacked some random houses in Azad Kashmir , for which there will be payback


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## CHACHA"G"

So strike did happened , iaf did dropped some bombs …………. Rest hitting KPK is IAF randi Rona...… India is lie big time..... 



pakdefender said:


> Even though randi indians are trying yo use this local man's eye witness account for their case , but it in fact weakens their stated position .. lol lol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306627624923136
> This is the summary of what he is saying
> 
> 1. He is resident of Jabba and does zamindaria ( farming) [Jabba is in Azad Kashmir and not in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa]
> 2. The blasts happened near a place called Kaggar Kattha/Kangar , which is also Azad Kashmir
> 3. The sound of jets lasted about 10 minutes before going silent
> 4. 5 loud blasts were heard
> 5. His relative lives near Kaggar Kattha/Kangar and there 4 or 5 houses got damaged and 1 person got injured.
> 
> This account is believable , yes it confirms that India did an intrusion but all the bullshit claims about camps and what not are just that , they are bull shit
> 
> This modi pig has over estimated himself this time , this will have consequences for india





Sugarcane said:


> How it strengthen cuck position of ISPR who claim that fuel tank dropped in open field and no loss?



Simple he is lying bro...………………

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## Wrath

The wheel of time said:


> I am not talking about the tweet but that stupid youtube video. And yes, if this is true that means IAF jets came to test your preparedness and response time.


Video contains jets releasing flares , no bombing however


----------



## Sugarcane

pakdefender said:


> Payload does not mean fuel tank



Then why ISPR don't have courage to say India dropped "bomb" instead of hiding behind "payload" term which common people don't understand and showing picture of fuel tank and some tree? Last time he was defending PAF by claiming that American jet didn't cross into Pakistan and fired from Afghan airspace.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Novice09 said:


> 1. There was a surgical strike... I believe...
> 2. Terrorists' camp blown up by using jets... I believe...


Bhai jaan, I am Kashmiri; I have relatives in those towns. There are no "camps", "launchpads" or "terror-HQs" as you guys say. There is not a drop of proof, no one stops anyone from visiting these areas, they are all popular tourist destinations.

My relative in Balakot told me that an uninhabited area on a hill-side was bombed; it is a popular area for hiking; there was no casualties and nearby civilians went to go and check out the area. Nothing but trees were damaged. I am yet to hear from my relatives in Muzaffarabad.

Balakot is only several miles away from the border, I don't see how this is some surgical strike. 

I don't believe that the real target was any supposed "terrorist camp", the true objective was to initiate a quick incursion, drop some bombs and let the Indian media take over.

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## Riz

BC.. Abhi bhi TV par ticker chal raha ha.. India na jarihat ki to jawab dia jay ga... Kon batay in bagairton ko k jarhiat bo chuki..

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## Goku-kun

Novice09 said:


> I know how fool these guys are... showing/using images of Rafale, MKI, Tejas, Mirage and what not... they have to runs 24×7 news channel... that is why I watch DD News 95% time...
> 
> But I do believe what my government and armed forces says...
> 
> 1. There was a surgical strike... I believe...
> 2. Terrorists' camp blown up by using jets... I believe...
> 
> Do I want to force you to believe the same... no... it is upto you...
> 
> View attachment 541929

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## Arsalan 345

where is ispr briefing about this matter? no briefing?


----------



## PDF

Please stop all these schmaltzy posts. There is too little information for public to pass comment. Everyone calm down and wait for further developments. Stop responding to mawkish Indians' postings.

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## litman

the statement is given by agriculture minister of india. WTF


----------



## Signalian

Sane to respond for 20 dead trees.


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Arsalan 345 said:


> where is ispr briefing about this matter? no briefing?


This happened some hours ago.


----------



## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100319147370663938


----------



## DOTO for life



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## CriticalThought

M.Musa said:


> Please stop all these schmaltzy posts. There is too little information for public to pass comment. Everyone calm down and wait for further developments. Stop responding to mawkish Indians' postings.



How about you guys delete mawkish Indian posts and ban them as well?


----------



## pakdefender

Sugarcane said:


> Then why ISPR don't have courage to say India dropped "bomb" instead of hiding behind "payload" term which common people don't understand and showing picture of fuel tank and some tree? Last time he was defending PAF by claiming that American jet didn't cross into Pakistan and fired from Afghan airspace.



Payload is a very common term and from the picture DG ISPR posted you can see a tree has broken and the ground soil is disturbed so its obvious that there was an explosion there. 

ISPR shared a pictures with the right description and the eye witness account of the local man confirms what happened

Its the Indian account which has holes in it , especially after the local man's testimony 

App shabash jao , siasat karo


----------



## hussain0216

This was sir gi cal strike 2

A low risk chutiya targeting of nothing to placate idiot's in india



Will we respond to this? 
We should but is it worth it if after losing 60 soldiers in February indias only response is this????

*I repeat,,, if indians can again placate their rabid population with sir gi cal strike 2 without risking war both sides may be fine with this withthe war fought on social media*


----------



## Foo_Fighter




----------



## N.Siddiqui

If the IAF planes were lighter by 1000's of Kg, by dropping supposedly 1000 kg's of bombs, why did they dropped the payload or the extra fuselage of 1000 kgs...doesn't makes any sense. 

They did an incursion, in the Balakot area of AJK, Balokot is a border town near to LOC, scrambled back to IOK, seems the likely scenario.

*Mission Accomplished*...Modi has shown his 56" chest to the nation and gullible Indians should vote for him.

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## Wrath

Army research said:


> Bloody paf


Mind your language . You are allowed to bash anyone but use appropriate words


----------



## Jaanbaz

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.



That's exactly what the Bollywood morons actually claiming but can't seem to provide any evidence.


----------



## Novice09

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Bhai jaan, I am Kashmiri; I have relatives in those towns. There are no "camps", "launchpads" or "terror-HQs" as you guys say. There is not a drop of proof, no one stops anyone from visiting these areas, they are all popular tourist destinations.
> 
> My relative in Balakot told me that an uninhabited area on a hill-side was bombed; it is a popular area for hiking; there was no casualties and nearby civilians went to go and check out the area. Nothing but trees were damaged. I am yet to hear from my relatives in Muzaffarabad.
> 
> Balakot is only several miles away from the border, I don't see how this is some surgical strike.
> 
> I don't believe that the real target was any supposed "terrorist camp", the true objective was to initiate a quick incursion, drop some bombs and let the Indian media take over.



As I say... I believe my government...


----------



## pakdefender

Novice09 said:


> As I say... I believe my government...



**** off from here and go kiss modi's ***


----------



## Wrath

Mani2020 said:


> Bhai na mazak kr... we have already been trolled quite badly ...


People like you let others troll you . Have a content POV , okay .


----------



## ice_man

Novice09 said:


> As I say... I believe my government...




GOOD FOR YOU. BELIEVE THEM SO DID THE NAZIs


----------



## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100321251564969984aur response aa gaya..... **Gabrana nai**

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## PDF

CriticalThought said:


> How about you guys delete mawkish Indian posts and ban them as well?


I neither have the mandate nor the authority. Report them please.


----------



## aakalim

They got us. We really have no option now. If we retaliate, then its war. If we don't its humiliation.


----------



## Wrath

Novice09 said:


> As I say... I believe my government...


And that's gonna be India's ultimate fall .


----------



## Skies

Surgical strike 2.0, 
but proof 0.0.

But whatever, Pakistan needs to do something to get a steady position in the news and social media. Otherwise, Pakistan would be looking weak.

Indians are taking advantage of whatever fake or real strike has happened!


----------



## Dante80

Riz said:


> :
> 
> We dont care who is in power in India.. Modi vodi chodi.. We dont fuking care.. We only means our sovereignty
> 
> Respond should be huge ...we are ready for the destruction of our 500+ fighter jets.. Nothing to worry about we can buy new one.. But face saving is important



That is not how this works. That is not how anything works really.


----------



## Sugarcane

pakdefender said:


> Payload is a very common term and from the picture DG ISPR posted you can see a tree has broken and the ground soil is disturbed so its obvious that there was an explosion there.
> 
> ISPR shared a pictures with the right description and the eye witness account of the local man confirms what happened
> 
> Its the Indian account which has holes in it , especially after the local man's testimony
> 
> App shabash jao , siasat karo



Payload is not common term, 99% of Pakistan would have heard this term for first time. Countless holes in Swiss cheese doesn't matter as long as there are people who are ready to buy.


----------



## Novice09

pakdefender said:


> **** off from here and go kiss modi's ***



I can't even get close to him... if you have that privilege... please do that...

I think the bomb has strikes right target...


----------



## Mani2020

Fahad Bilal said:


> People like you let others troll you . Have a content POV , okay .



You dont know a shit ... so dont quote post out of context and teach me what i need to do and i what i dont


----------



## malikmohsin

INDIAN JET VIOLATED OUR BOUNDARY INTRUDED INSIDE PAKISTAN,CAME CLOSE TO BALAKOT KPK CROSSING OVER KASHMIR.MY SIMPLE QUESTION IS WHY WE LET THEM GO.
MY SUGGESTION IS A.C.M SHOULD RESIGN

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Arsalan 345

i will not vote for imran khan.he is not real pathan.he sacrificed this country for his own political dictatorship.bad job paf.i expect nothing from pakistan.we are now somalia.all pride chest thumping is gone.modi deserves votes.he did what he said.imran khan is weak.he believes in peace.peace is not an option.


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## Riz

Lone Ranger said:


> *afsos k sath kehna pr rha lakin aj bhi hamari forces ne jawab na diya tu yakeen uth jana inke lumber #1 honay pr
> 
> 71, osama, salala or ab ye bezati hi krati aain hain hamri lumber # 1 forces*


Abhi asmano par sary jhaz ura rahy hain subha sa jesy inky baap ka patrol ha.. BC jao sucide karo ja kar aik ja kar new dehli par bomb girao.. Baki hum daikh lain gay india ki maan ki c***t


----------



## Novice09

Fahad Bilal said:


> And that's gonna be India's ultimate fall .



Don't you believe your defence forces nd government...


----------



## mastaan

guys, just trying to understand the extent of the intrusion.. How far away is balakote from the LOC? Crowflight terms?


----------



## Wrath

Mani2020 said:


> You dont know a shit ... so dont quote post out of context and teach me what i need to do and i what i dont


Hahaha . Bhai the way you are reacting is a fair picture of what you know and what your mind set is . O am not quoting out of context . You are saying we are trolled , it's the tough times which shows how much balls a nation has . Alhamdulillah being a Pakistani , I know PAF shouldn't have let Indian b#tches get away but this isn't the way to react .


----------



## lightoftruth

Once you can't deny ,the blame from PAF gets shifted to poor IK.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100319133235851264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100320143635345408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100322756590219264


----------



## Wrath

Novice09 said:


> Don't you believe your defence forces nd government...


Alhamdulillah . I do . I don't hear any statements from INdian army . Your defense ministry even says they were oblivious of any such cowardly attacks .


----------



## Bindas

DG ISPR - Nothing happened, they crossed loc and we made then run back. 

DG ISPR - only trees killed. (as per Pic)

This means no response needed. Any response will be Disproportionate. As we did not do anything. only violation of loc, which happens often. 

So all the defence.pk member who want response. it is not happening.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Salza

mastaan said:


> guys, just trying to understand the extent of the intrusion.. How far away is balakote from the LOC? Crowflight terms?



A divided village at both sides of LOC. This is the Balakot in questioned while your media is adding up lies about a Balakot city in KP which is 60- 70 + km away from the LOC.


----------



## Goku-kun

lightoftruth said:


> Once you can't deny ,the blame from PAF gets shifted to poor IK.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100319133235851264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100320143635345408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100322756590219264


didn't you read it fully? that's what we have been saying that there is no infrastructure loss or human loss but you did infiltrate inside our territory..


----------



## Dr. Abdul Basit

Now that's some utter bullshit... I have seen raids by US....in Afghanistan our airforce in swat Waziristan etc... Never claimed anything above 20-30 casualties..a single sortie killing 300 is really fishy


----------



## DOTO for life



Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## mastaan

Salza said:


> A divided village at both sides of LOC. This is the Balakot in questioned while your media is adding up lies about a Balakot city in KP which is 60- 70 + km away from the LOC.


So the strike in your side of kashmir and not KPK?

Chest thumping from both sides aside - Were there SAMs fired, as they should be when the alert level is highest... Scrambling is 1960s and too late in modern warfare.. Am just trying to understand the narrative from pakistan side.. Shouldn't a question be asked, if it was KPK balakote that Indian jets dropped anything on?


----------



## lightoftruth

Goku-kun said:


> didn't you read it fully? that's what we have been saying that there is no infrastructure loss or human loss but you did infiltrate inside our territory..


You expect your defence forces to release numbers and lose even more dignity ?


----------



## Novice09

Even best friend is...


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Read the fallowing twits ………… @Sugarcane , @HRK , @Areesh , @Arsalan 345 , @M.Musa 


lightoftruth said:


> Once you can't deny ,the blame from PAF gets shifted to poor IK.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100319133235851264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100320143635345408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100322756590219264

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Areesh

CHACHA"G" said:


> Read the fallowing twits ………… @Sugarcane , @HRK , @Areesh , @Arsalan 345 , @M.Musa



Yeah I read that


----------



## Devil Soul




----------



## The wheel of time

Lone Ranger said:


> *afsos k sath kehna pr rha lakin aj bhi hamari forces ne jawab na diya tu yakeen uth jana inke lumber #1 honay pr
> 
> 71, osama, salala or ab ye bezati hi krati aain hain hamri lumber # 1 forces*



I think you are forgetting 65 and 99.


----------



## Salza

mastaan said:


> So the strike in your side of kashmir and not KPK?
> 
> Chest thumping from both sides aside - Were there SAMs fired, as they should be when the alert level is highest... Scrambling is 1960s and too late in modern warfare.. Am just trying to understand the narrative from pakistan side.. Shouldn't a question be asked, if it was KPK balakote that Indian jets dropped anything on?



SAMs doesn't covered entire LOC. Actually IAF did tried to sneaked in, but when they spotted PAF jets approaching towards them, they ran away. One of your plane dropped a fuel tank at the reported village. The incursion was probably 3-4 km inside Pakistani LOC. Over all, IAF tried to get in but they couldn't. 

Also some sources of your govt is quoting a hilarious figure of 200-300 + militants death along with of 1000 kg bombs dropping off...well if that would had been the case, it would had left a huge destruction for everyone to picture.


----------



## Maxpane

CHACHA"G" said:


> Read the fallowing twits ………… @Sugarcane , @HRK , @Areesh , @Arsalan 345 , @M.Musa


@Mentee bhai


----------



## Novice09

Dr. Abdul Basit said:


> Now that's some utter bullshit... I have seen raids by US....in Afghanistan our airforce in swat Waziristan etc... Never claimed anything above 20-30 casualties..a single sortie killing 300 is really fishy



Bro, news channels and their SOURCES... Try to understand... they have a 24×7 news channel...
Just wait for few more hours... you will start getting animations depicting the attack...

No number is given by the government or IAF...


----------



## Count Dracula

Few things to note apart from the lulz

*1.* '*dropped payload*' - lol its obvious why you have to coin it this way. If it were em drop tankks you could have simply waited for confirmation, call it that. No need to hurry. I mean you are the DG ispr, you must be careful about what you dishout. Also to note is the initial flurry of information & first recognition came from him. He being good at what he does, tried to save face as much as possible & put out the statement before the Indian side could give it their color. To put this in ambiguously vague statement is simply a nod, acceptance that strikes indeed happened.

*2.* Its 'bala kot near loc', few fanboys are pushing this just to save face. First of all this balakot lies on our side. there is no JeM there or dont need to fly through AJK to get there. Anyway this is from last year.






The balakot we are talking about lies in NWFP near mansehra. It has been a hotbed of terrorist training place for decades, not just from JeM but others too. A simple google search can attest that. Also anyone from either side who keeps a tab about these things knows this. *from 2009*






''Jaish e mohammed has a strong foothold in the region even though it operates *chiefly from balakot (NWFP)*" 

** *DG ISPR statement tells "payload dropped in balakot" (yh they were dropping droptanks on jem site lol)
** * Indian side statement says they attacked JeM in Balakot. So, nothing there to disagree

*3. *The main contention in this event hasnt even been discussed here till now. Now that we have established, strikes indeed happened on jem(pakistani memebers wud agree), this is a major policy change. Even surgical strike was one thing, but airstrike inside enemy territory is another thing. Even Pakistan did anticipate something like surgical strikes and took measures too. But never anticipated this. We have indeed caught them offguard. This is a major overt manoeuvre, *that whether or not you admit to folly, we are gonna strike you when we deem see fit, inside your own territory including airstrikes*. This isnt a small fit.

*4.* Also the manoeuvre isnt just military one, diplomatic one too. this isnt a small incident, had pakistan even attempted something like this, you would have all major sides condemning it to hell. But not a peep to India, not from anybody, not even your usual "condemn both sides, they should keep calm, engage in dialogue" blal bla etc. Also to draw your attention this just happened last week.


> *Washington*: The United Nations has become an important battleground for a pushback against China, whose sponsorship and protection of Pakistan came under pressure from the combined diplomatic heft of the United States, India and France.
> 
> The latest example was the UN Security Council’s first ever condemnation of a terrorist attack in Jammu and Kashmir despite persistent Chinese objections.
> 
> No statements were issued in the past – neither after Pathankot nor after Uri. The UNSC said nothing when the J&K state legislature complex was targeted in 2001 by Jaish-e-Mohammed. The UN’s most powerful body stayed away from events in “disputed” territories.
> 
> The firm statement on the Pulwama attack is a move forward – it draws a clearer line on terrorism and embarrasses China for the company it keeps.
> 
> China used every trick in the book first to prevent the statement from being issued, then to argue for a minor two-line reaction and finally to water it down. But its moves were systematically countered and the result was unanimous condemnation.
> 
> “The real heavy lifting was done by the US,” a UN observer close to the negotiations said. “Uncle Sam went with his hack saw and got results.”
> 
> The UNSC abandoned the standard template it normally uses to condemn attacks anywhere and broke new ground by using sharp, expansive language to deny cover to Pakistan.
> 
> Also read | After Mass Arrests, Official Orders to Stock Medicines, Food Fuel Panic in Kashmir
> 
> The statement challenges orthodoxies and establishes a new narrative, that attacks on a country’s security forces can also count as terrorism. In the past, the UN restricted itself to condemning terrorist attacks only against civilians.
> 
> *"*But getting there wasn’t easy. China blocked and undermined the US-led effort for six long days to protect Pakistan until it couldn’t. US negotiators, working in consultation with Indian diplomats, pushed back, leaving Beijing no room to manoeuvre*"*.
> 
> *First*, China wanted to use the term “Indian-administered Kashmir” instead of Jammu and Kashmir. Then it didn’t want to name the terrorist group even though JeM had claimed responsibility for the Pulwama attack in which more than 40 Central Reserve Police Force personnel were killed. The Chinese were directed to the JeM video to update themselves, officials in New York told _*The Wire*_.
> 
> In fact, China objected to using the term “terrorist” to describe the February 14 attack on the grounds that UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres hadn’t used the word in his initial statement on February 15. That was easily fixed when Guterres issued a new statement on February 20, calling it a “terrorist attack”.
> 
> Incidentally, the second Guterres statement came after Pakistan’s ambassador Maleeha Lodhi had handed over a letter from her foreign minister pleading for the UN to intervene and blaming India for “escalating the situation”.
> 
> What Lodhi got was the reverse – fingers were pointed at Pakistan instead. “It was almost Shakespearean – hoist with her own petard,” a UN observer said.
> 
> 
> The UNSC statement overcomes “cleavages” that in the past prevented outright condemnation of attacks in J&K by Pakistan-based terrorist groups.
> 
> The first is the narrative of terrorist vs freedom fighter, a line that Pakistan has used to find sympathy among UN members by highlighting the heavy Indian army presence as an “occupation force” in J&K. The condemnation puts that dichotomy firmly to rest for now. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.
> 
> The UNSC statement stressed that “any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed.” This doesn’t leave much room for Pakistan to push the “freedom fighter” argument to justify terrorism.
> 
> The second fault line that India always ran into was the tendency within the UN to stay away from taking a strong position on “disputed” territories whose final status was yet to be determined. No more. The statement treats the attack as an event that took place in an Indian state, not in a disputed region, which is a big setback to Pakistan.
> 
> The statement asked all UN member countries to help the government in charge, directing them to “cooperate actively with the government of India” to hold the “perpetrators, organizers, financiers and sponsors of these reprehensible acts of terrorism accountable and bring them to justice.”
> 
> “This is not an insignificant gain,” a UN observer told _The Wire_. “The UNSC statement has brought J&K into the normal discussion on terrorism. Now terrorism in J&K is equivalent to terrorism in France.”
> 
> So what changed? An official said there was a feeling that “enough is enough” and UN members saw the rage in India. The Chinese realised the cost of protecting Pakistan was getting too high in this instance.



So the UNSC statement that china stalled for a week, came out with:
a. Recognising J&K, Not using "Ind/pk administed kashmir''
b. Attack on security forces considered terrorist attack, which previously wasnt the case.
c. recognising jem & targeting Pakistan

Now after the incident they have highlighted this to China. It is for both Indian & Pakistanis to see what the all weather friend does now. Dont expect much though. They will probably keep silent like the chinese posters here.






*5.* Another major issue to discuss is how IAF caught PAF offguard. It surely must not have been easy. PAF is a professional force, well equipped to 'defend' Pakistan atleast. But they failed here, monumentally. I think fatigue played a key role. I think they played it to IAF's hand. PDF was abuzz with jets sighting/roaring since last week. I thinkIAF wanted that to happen. Anyway, I think this matter is better discussed when things cool down, will get unbiased inputs from experts here.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ahassan

The wheel of time said:


> I think you are forgetting 65 and 99.


 did you forget 65 & 99????


----------



## mastaan

Salza said:


> SAMs doesn't covered entire LOC. Actually IAF did tried to sneaked in, but when they spotted PAF jets approaching towards them, they ran away. One of your plane dropped a fuel tank at the reported village. The incursion was probably 3-4 km inside Pakistani LOC. Over all, IAF tried to get in but they couldn't.
> 
> Also some sources of your govt is quoting a hilarious figure of 200-300 + militants death along with of 1000 kg bombs dropping off...well if that would had been the case, it would had left a huge destruction for everyone to picture.


i think we should leave chest thumping aside .. if 300 were killed then there will be press in pakistan at those places... so, i would tend to agree with you unless i see proof of that damage in pictures.

the thing i am trying to figure out is - how deep was the incursion and SAMs should be covering main towns close to border.. therefore curious

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100326569623592962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100326705028390912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100326861811474432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100326920879857664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100327040874627072
**BBC URDU TWEET*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100327373403316225*


----------



## mastaan

Count Dracula said:


> Few things to note apart from the lulz
> 
> 1. 'dropped payload' - lol its obvious why you have to coin it this way. If it were em drop tankks you could have simply waited for confirmation, call it that. No need to hurry. I mean you are the DG ispr, you must be careful about what you dishout. Also to note is the initial flurry of information & first recognition came from him. He being good at what he does, tried to save face as much as possible & put out the statement before the Indian side could give it their color. To put this in ambiguously vague statement is simply a nod, acceptance that strikes indeed happened.
> 
> 2. Its 'bala kot near loc', few fanboys are pushing this just to save face. First of all this balakot lies on our side. there is no JeM there or dont need to fly through AJK to get there. Anyway this is from last year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The balakot we are talking about lies in NWFP near mansehra. It has been a hotbed of terrorist training place for decades, not just from JeM but others too. A simple google search can attest that. Also anyone from either side who keeps a tab about these things knows this. from 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ''Jaish e mohammed has a strong foothold in the region even though it operates *chiefly from balakot (NWFP)*"
> DG ISPR statement tells "payload dropped in balakot" (yh they were dropping droptanks on jem site lol)
> Indian side statement says they attacked JeM in Balakot. So, nothing there to disagree
> 
> 3. The main contention in this event hasnt even been discussed here till now. Now that we have established, strikes indeed happened on jem(pakistani memebers wud agree), this is a major policy change. Even surgical strike was one thing, but airstrike inside enemy territory is another thing. Even Pakistan did anticipate something like surgical strikes and took measures too. But never anticipated this. We have indeed caught them offguard. This is a major overt manoeuvre, *that whether or not you admit to folly, we are gonna strike you when we deem see fit, inside your own territory including airstrikes*. This isnt a small fit.
> 
> 4. Also the manoeuvre isnt just military one, diplomatic one too. this isnt a small incident, had pakistan even attempted something like this, you would have all major sides condemning it to hell. But not a peep to India, not from anybody, not even your usual "condemn both sides, they should keep calm, engage in dialogue" blal bla etc. Also to draw your attention this just happened last week.
> 
> 
> So the UNSC statement that china stalled for a week, came out with:
> a. Recognising J&K, Not using "Ind/pk administed kashmir''
> b. Attack on security forces considered terrorist attack, which previously wasnt the case.
> c. recognising jem & targeting Pakistan
> 
> Now after the incident they have highlighted this to China. It is for both Indian & Pakistanis to see what the all weather friend does now. Dont expect much though. They will probably keep silent like the chinese posters here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Another major issue to discuss is how IAF caught PAF offguard. It surely must not have been easy. PAF is a professional force, well equipped to 'defend' Pakistan atleast. But they failed here, monumentally. I think fatigue played a key role. I think they played it to IAF's hand. PDF was abuzz with jets sighting/roaring since last week. I thinkIAF wanted that to happen. Anyway, I think this matter is better discussed when things cool down, will get unbiased inputs from experts here.


 2 - Balakote.. which one.. that is what i am trying to figure out. Our Balakote is in Rajouri district, close to my home and it is on Indian side, but i am trying to figure out how many kilometers did our planes get in.. 10-12km or 50-60km and those two numbers make a huge difference, as i see it


----------



## Devil Soul

BBC Urdu clearly stating that only few house & 1 person injured ..contouring indian claim of targeting a Camp ... where r 300 bodies????


----------



## Riz

Breaking.... Ik orders army and nation be ready for war... Enough is Enough


----------



## Arsalan 345

Riz said:


> Breaking.... Ik orders army and nation be ready for war... Enough is Enough



where is link?


----------



## mastaan

Devil Soul said:


> View attachment 541975
> 
> BBC Urdu clearly stating that only few house & 1 person injured ..contouring indian claim of targeting a Camp ... where r 300 bodies????


So was it a hill top as is being shown or some civil locality? It is so difficult to get any news in all this media noise


----------



## The wheel of time

Ahassan said:


> did you forget 65 & 99????



No We are proud of our boys who knocked the wind out of your op grand slam and op gibralter and dislodged you from kargil heights

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Riz

Riz said:


> Breaking.... Ik orders army and nation be ready for war... Enough is Enough


Pak is going to respond at right time and location of our choosing


----------



## Maxpane

Riz said:


> Breaking.... Ik orders army and nation be ready for war... Enough is Enough


chor yar . they cant afford it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## aman_rai

niao78 said:


> View attachment 541955


Tipical Pakistani response...
Asking proof from a resident who wants revenge

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Devil Soul

Pak hav decided to invite international media to the location where indians claims to have destroyed the Camp

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Mumm-Ra

Riz said:


> Pak is going to respond at right time and location of our choosing



Na mazeed zakham laga yr.


----------



## Goku-kun

Maxpane said:


> chor yar . they cant afford it


Imran Khan will hand over the authority of use of Nuclear and ballastic missiles to Army tomorrow..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Ahassan

The wheel of time said:


> No We are proud of our boys who knocked the wind out of your op grand slam and op gibralter and dislodged you from kargil heights


 ye bollywood movie say dekha hai ??? soo ja bhai ... easy ker poori dunya janti hai ....


----------



## Ghessan

Pakistan announced for a response with time and place of their own choice.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Devil Soul

mastaan said:


> So was it a hill top as is being shown or some civil locality? It is so difficult to get any news in all this media noise


So far their are no confirmation or news of anyone being killed or few near by 3-4 houses damaged ...... seems like the target was an open area....


----------



## mastaan

Devil Soul said:


> So far their are no confirmation or news of anyone being killed or few near by 3-4 houses damaged ...... seems like the target was an open area....


and this area is where? in KPK or your side of kashmir?


----------



## Khatri_pune

Count Dracula said:


> Few things to note apart from the lulz
> 
> 1. 'dropped payload' - lol its obvious why you have to coin it this way. If it were em drop tankks you could have simply waited for confirmation, call it that. No need to hurry. I mean you are the DG ispr, you must be careful about what you dishout. Also to note is the initial flurry of information & first recognition came from him. He being good at what he does, tried to save face as much as possible & put out the statement before the Indian side could give it their color. To put this in ambiguously vague statement is simply a nod, acceptance that strikes indeed happened.
> 
> 2. Its 'bala kot near loc', few fanboys are pushing this just to save face. First of all this balakot lies on our side. there is no JeM there or dont need to fly through AJK to get there. Anyway this is from last year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The balakot we are talking about lies in NWFP near mansehra. It has been a hotbed of terrorist training place for decades, not just from JeM but others too. A simple google search can attest that. Also anyone from either side who keeps a tab about these things knows this. from 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ''Jaish e mohammed has a strong foothold in the region even though it operates *chiefly from balakot (NWFP)*"
> DG ISPR statement tells "payload dropped in balakot" (yh they were dropping droptanks on jem site lol)
> Indian side statement says they attacked JeM in Balakot. So, nothing there to disagree
> 
> 3. The main contention in this event hasnt even been discussed here till now. Now that we have established, strikes indeed happened on jem(pakistani memebers wud agree), this is a major policy change. Even surgical strike was one thing, but airstrike inside enemy territory is another thing. Even Pakistan did anticipate something like surgical strikes and took measures too. But never anticipated this. We have indeed caught them offguard. This is a major overt manoeuvre, *that whether or not you admit to folly, we are gonna strike you when we deem see fit, inside your own territory including airstrikes*. This isnt a small fit.
> 
> 4. Also the manoeuvre isnt just military one, diplomatic one too. this isnt a small incident, had pakistan even attempted something like this, you would have all major sides condemning it to hell. But not a peep to India, not from anybody, not even your usual "condemn both sides, they should keep calm, engage in dialogue" blal bla etc. Also to draw your attention this just happened last week.
> 
> 
> So the UNSC statement that china stalled for a week, came out with:
> a. Recognising J&K, Not using "Ind/pk administed kashmir''
> b. Attack on security forces considered terrorist attack, which previously wasnt the case.
> c. recognising jem & targeting Pakistan
> 
> Now after the incident they have highlighted this to China. It is for both Indian & Pakistanis to see what the all weather friend does now. Dont expect much though. They will probably keep silent like the chinese posters here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Another major issue to discuss is how IAF caught PAF offguard. It surely must not have been easy. PAF is a professional force, well equipped to 'defend' Pakistan atleast. But they failed here, monumentally. I think fatigue played a key role. I think they played it to IAF's hand. PDF was abuzz with jets sighting/roaring since last week. I thinkIAF wanted that to happen. Anyway, I think this matter is better discussed when things cool down, will get unbiased inputs from experts here.



Spot On.....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dash

Devil Soul said:


> So far their are no confirmation or news of anyone being killed or few near by 3-4 houses damaged ...... seems like the target was an open area....



BBC urdu reporting from Balakot. I cant share the link but you can check.


----------



## Riz

Some thing big about to happens... Stay tuned friends.. Modi is going to eat his shit.. Ball is now in our court... All eyes are on Pakistan now...


----------



## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100329652386652160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100281853322371072

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Salza

Dash said:


> BBC urdu reporting from Balakot. I cant share the link but you can check.



In night how can a civilian distinguished that a jet is of Pakistani origin or Indian ?

PAF jets are flying all over the place for the last few days.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Devil Soul

Dash said:


> BBC urdu reporting from Balakot. I cant share the link but you can check.








screenshot of BBC Urdu Tweet states
" india claims to have targeted Jesh Mohammad Camp & killed many "
" As per eye witness few homes got damaged & 1 person injured"

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## cerberus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100239081236242433


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## Count Dracula

Thunderdome said:


> CRPF should be a declared a terrorist organization since their hands are drenched in the blood of innocent Kashmiris.
> 
> All CRPF locations must be declared terrorist launchpads and the ones close to the LOC should be targeted.





> https://thewire.in/diplomacy/pulwama-unsc-statement-india-us-china
> 
> No statements were issued in the past – neither after Pathankot nor after Uri. The UNSC said nothing when the J&K state legislature complex was targeted in 2001 by Jaish-e-Mohammed. The UN’s most powerful body stayed away from events in “disputed” territories.
> 
> The statement challenges orthodoxies and establishes a new narrative, that attacks on a country’s security forces can also count as terrorism. In the past, the UN restricted itself to condemning terrorist attacks only against civilians.





mastaan said:


> 2 - Balakote.. which one.. that is what i am trying to figure out. Our Balakote is in Rajouri district, close to my home and it is on Indian side, but i am trying to figure out how many kilometers did our planes get in.. 10-12km or 50-60km and those two numbers make a huge difference, as i see it


Does balakote near you has JeM facilities? that should answer your questions. The balakote, which is hotbed of terrorist training, which is acknowledged as root of JeM lies in KPK.


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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100331869617426432


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## Salza

Count Dracula said:


> Does balakote near you has JeM facilities? that should answer your questions. The balakote, which is hotbed of terrorist training, which is acknowledged as root of JeM lies in KPK.



Are you an idiot of highest category ? KP Balakot is a small tourist hill station which comes in the way of Maneshra. KP Balakot is always full of local and foreign tourists.

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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100283051723108354

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## SirHatesALot

lol this is funny if PAF retaliates it basically proves Indian version

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## Devil Soul



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## ejaz007

*India launches air raids on Pakistani territory*
India foreign secretary says jets hit Jaish-e-Mohammed camp in Pakistan, but Islamabad denies casualties in air raids.

by Asad Hashim
5 minutes ago

*MORE ON ASIA*

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Islamabad, Pakistan - Indian fighter jets on Tuesday crossed into Pakistani territory, conducting what the foreign ministry in New Delhi termed a "non-military pre-emptive action" against armed group Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM), dramatically escalating tensions between the nuclear-armed neighbours weeks after a suicide attack in the disputed Kashmir region.

Pakistan reported the Indian airspace incursion, with military spokesman Major General Asif Ghafoor saying its air force jets were scrambling to respond, forcing the Indian aircraft to "release [their] payload in haste while escaping".

Indian Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale, however, asserted that the jets had hit their target, and that "a very large number of JeM terrorists, trainers, senior commanders and groups of jihadis who were being trained for fidayeen action were eliminated".

"The government of India is firmly and resolutely committed to taking all necessary measures to fight the menace of terrorism," he told reporters in New Delhi. "Hence this non-military pre-emptive action was specifically targeted at the Jaish-e-Mohammed camp."


C Uday Bhaskar, the director of the Society for Policy Studies based in New Delhi, said: "India has sent a very firm signal."

"The fact that air power has been used for the first time against a terrorist target to my mind signalled to Pakistan that India is demonstrating resolve in terms of using military power, particularly air power," he said.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi held a meeting with his top government officials in New Delhi where he was briefed about the predawn air attack.

Hour later, speaking at an election rally in the western state of Rajasthan, Modi said "the country is in safe hands", avoiding direct reference to the air raids.

"I pledge on this soil, ... I will not let the country bend."

Al Jazeera's Faiz Jamil, reporting from New Delhi, said that the Indian government has been under a lot of pressure to act in the wake of the Kashmir attack.

"This attack was expected and one of the reasons it was delayed was the visit of the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to the region," Jamil said.

"But everyone did expect that this would somehow happen sometime soon, especially with [general] elections coming up in April."




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100179216375693318

Indian Air Force violated Line of Control. Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back. Details to follow.


28.6K
4:42 AM - Feb 26, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

15.1K people are talking about this












Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100231826348617728

Payload of hastily escaping Indian aircrafts fell in open.


20.8K
8:11 AM - Feb 26, 2019

15.4K people are talking about this

Twitter Ads info and privacy


A special meeting of the National Security Committee chaired by the Prime Minister Imran Khan was held at his office on Tuesday.

The meeting was attended by Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Defence, Finance, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee and other civil and military officials.

"Forum strongly rejected Indian claim of targeting an alleged terrorist camp near Balakot and the claim of heavy casualties. Once again, Indian government has resorted to a self-serving, reckless and fictitious claim," the prime minister’s office said in a statement.

"Forum concluded that India has committed uncalled for aggression to which Pakistan shall respond at the time and place of its choosing."

Hassan Akbar, director at the Islamabad-based Jinnah Institute think-tank, termed the strikes "a very provocative and aggressive action by India, irrespective of whether any infrastructure was destroyed or anyone was killed or injured".

"They did drop payload in various sectors including in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, and this constitutes a serious violation of Pakistan's airspace and sovereignty."

Akbar said Pakistan's response could range from hitting Indian artillery positions along the Line of Control to taking "a more escalatory position" and launching similar airstrikes on Indian military targets.

*Sounds of aircraft*
Local residents and journalists in Pakistan told Al Jazeera that the sounds of aircraft and an explosion were heard in the Jaba area of Mansehra district, located about 60km from the LoC - the de facto border that divides Indian- and Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

India and Pakistan have fought three of their four wars over Kashmir, which both claim in full but administer separate portions of.

The air attacks on Tuesday appear to have taken place outside of Kashmir, at least 10km inside the Pakistani province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.





Indian soldiers examine the debris after the deadly explosion in Pulwama [File: Younis Khaliq/Reuters]
Pakistan's military did not confirm the location of the incident, offering conflicting reports that at first placed it near the town of Balakot, about 12km from Jaba, and later claimed it occurred within the confines of Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

Tensions between the South Asian neighbours have been high since February 14, when a suicide attacker killed at least 42 Indian security personnel in the Indian-administered Kashmir town of Pulwama.

*Raids in Kashmir*
Meanwhile, Indian security forces have conducted raids on the houses of four senior Kashmiri separatist leaders, including chief of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front Yasin Malik.

Kashmiri civilians say they have been seeing heavy troop deployment, fuel shortages and frequent Indian security forces raids since the Pulwama attack.

"The cost of war might not be known in the TV studios, but we have already borne the burnt of the long conflict. Now, it seems the only option left for us is quick devastation or slow devastation," said 65-year-old Bashir Ahmad Pal, a resident of Baramulla, a frontier town in northern Indian-administered Kashmir.

India has threatened Pakistan with military action repeatedly since the February 14 blast, blaming it for "controlling" the attack. Pakistan-based armed group JeM had claimed the attack.

Pakistan denies any role in the attack, and last week Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan asked India for "actionable intelligence" in order to take action against any JeM operatives in Pakistan.

Pakistan has reiterated its right to self-defence.

"This is a violation of the Line of Control, and Pakistan reserves the right to a reasonable response and the right to self-defence," said Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, before a high-level meeting with PM Khan.

_Additional reporting by Rifat Fareed from Srinagar in Indian-administered Kashmir_






SOURCE: AL JAZEERA NEWS

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...india-violating-airspace-190226040437318.html


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## Devil Soul

*Reuters report exposes Indian claims of major destruction*


Listen







An eyewitness has exposed Indian claims of major destruction inside Pakistan.

Talking to Reuters news agency, he said that they heard four loud bangs in the early hours of Tuesday but reported only one person wounded by bomb shards.

“We saw trees fallen down and one house damaged and four craters where the bombs had fallen,” said Mohammad Ajmal, a 25-year-old who visited the site.

The Pakistan Air Force thwarted an early morning incursion into its airspace Tuesday by Indian fighter aircraft, forcing them to flee, the military spokesman said.

The Indian aircraft intruded from Muzafarabad sector, Major General Asif Ghafoor said in a tweet at 6:36 am.

He said the "timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force" forced the intruding aircraft to "release payload in haste while escaping, which fell near BalakotSector (Azad Kashmir)."

Pictures released by the Director General Inter Services Public Relations Major General Asif Ghafoor show a burnt out steep mountain side with no sign of any damage to any property, apart from a few burnt out pine trees.

A few shards of metal were scattered around in the charred grass.

The incursion into the Pakistan air space follows a series of threats by Indian political and military leadership following the attack on an Indian Army convoy at Pulwama by a local youth, in reaction to the oppression unleashed by the occupation force


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## Great Janjua

Count Dracula said:


>


Priyanka singh enough said


----------



## PDF

Press conference by some cabinet ministers live now...


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## SMC

Count Dracula said:


>



Indian writers are reliable sources on Pakistan?


----------



## enquencher

Full war on cards..
Heavy movement of troops on pakistani side..


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## Mutakalim

Areesh said:


> Exactly. The liberal bullsh!t from musharraf has damaged Pakistan a lot


Yra we are a peace loving secular liberal republic just like Bangladesh. We have given the formulation of our national narrative to the elite of this country, the same elite whose children are studying in western universities. We shouldn't expect much from this liberal burger elite. Our politicians, generals, bureaucrats and media are the part of this elite. They will try their best to deescalate the situation by resorting to mere lip service.


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## Salza

Count Dracula said:


>



Googling ? Is this the best you have come up in order to prove your point ? We know more about Balakot than you Indians. For your information, entire town was destroyed after 2005 earthquake so now it is mostly used as tourist stop over in order to reach Narraan and higher places.


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## Jf Thunder

Novice09 said:


> Agony : Date and time of tweet...
> 
> View attachment 541923


I want a laugh react for this.


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## Areesh

Gillani88 said:


> Yra we are a peace loving secular liberal republic just like Bangladesh. We have given the formulation of our national narrative to the elite of this country, the same elite whose children are studying in western universities. We shouldn't expect much from this liberal burger elite. Our politicians, generals, bureaucrats and media are the part of this elite. They will try their best to deescalate the situation by resorting to mere lip service.



Lets see what happens. But I am optimistic that response would be given.


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## Arsalan 345

enquencher said:


> Full war on cards..
> Heavy movement of troops on pakistani side..



kindly share source.


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## Devil Soul

Pak have decided to response to this act of war from indian side :FM


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## Mutakalim

Areesh said:


> Lets see what happens. But I am optimistic that response would be given.


Lets hope that they will man up.


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## Salza

Infact Balakot was 2005 earthquake epicenter. So even if there were some training camps, those would had been destroyed in the event.


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## enquencher

Arsalan 345 said:


> kindly share source.


Source cannot be reaveled here..talk to people on ur side of border 
Indian navy has started with their moves.

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## Devil Soul




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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100325991593971712


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## Areesh

enquencher said:


> Full war on cards..
> Heavy movement of troops on pakistani side..



Pakistan would respond. Never had doubts about it

However full war isn't option for now.

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## Count Dracula

Great Janjua said:


> Priyanka singh enough said





SMC said:


> Indian writers are reliable sources on Pakistan?


Yeah , she wrote this in 2009 anticipating the 'false' air raids to be carried out by IAF in 2009. Bravo to the lady, if thats the case really.


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## Salza

enquencher said:


> U are so incapable ..u cannot built a town in 14 years..



Not required since most of the leftover population moved to other places.


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## Devil Soul

enquencher said:


> U are so incapable ..u cannot built a town in 14 years..


*Balakot* (Urdu: *بالاکوٹ* ‎) is a town in Mansehra District in the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan. The town was destroyed during the 2005 Kashmir earthquake, but was later rebuilt with the assistance of the Government of Pakistan and Saudi Public Assistance for Pakistan Earthquake Victims (SPAPEV),[1] a Saudi relief organisation.


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## enquencher

Areesh said:


> Pakistan would respond. Never had doubts about it
> 
> However full war isn't option for now.


It is..i can garantee u..a response now by pakistan will be again met with response.
For now score is 1-1


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## Great Janjua

Count Dracula said:


> Yeah , she wrote this in 2009 anticipating the 'false' air raids to be carried out by IAF in 2009. Bravo to the lady, if thats the case really.


That's her right in a supposed democratic country. But she has no right off chatting shit


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## Areesh

enquencher said:


> It is..i can garantee u..a response now by pakistan will be again met with response.
> For now score is 1-1



It would be trees for trees. You destroyed our trees. We would do the same.

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## enquencher

Devil Soul said:


> *Balakot* (Urdu: *بالاکوٹ* ‎) is a town in Mansehra District in the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan. The town was destroyed during the 2005 Kashmir earthquake, but was later rebuilt with the assistance of the Government of Pakistan and Saudi Public Assistance for Pakistan Earthquake Victims (SPAPEV),[1] a Saudi relief organisation.


That was what i m saying to an esteem poster who is in denial mode


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## dexter

Is this really Balakot?


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## enquencher

Areesh said:


> It would be trees for trees. You destroyed our trees. We would do the same.


We attacked jaish camp..jaish attacked indian troups in phulwama...its same score..
As some suggested to destroy mumbai n delhi then there will response between pakistan n india.
Leave apart everything..y did not paf or sams strike at iaf?


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## Areesh

lightoftruth said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/110031597818390937710 ambulances



Another local from balakot


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100292603533295621


enquencher said:


> We attacked jaish camp..jaish attacked indian troups in phulwama...its same score..
> As some suggested to destroy mumbai n delhi then there will response between pakistan n india.
> Leave apart everything..y did not paf or sams strike at iaf?



We don't go for score. We just put you in your place. Same would happen this time

As for PAF or sams. We don't know the exact details. from what we have seen you did a very hasty and quick retreat so there wasn't enough response time. Lets see


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## enquencher

Areesh said:


> Another local from balakot
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100292603533295621




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100340140961083394


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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100341559793471488


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## Areesh

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100340140961083394



This guy is already posting fake videos on the name of BBC urdu. This is what a BBC urdu journalist said


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100322377764876288
Even in that video nothing special is mentioned except 1 hut getting damaged and 1 injury

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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100290833448923136

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## Hayreddin

Stop making pakistani people fool please . 
Ok we accept ispr version IAF violated airspace and "ran away"while seeing PAF . 
How could ispr explain to this ......
1: in normal peace time fighter jet is NOT allowed to come 10 km closer to border of either side .violation cause scramble .This is consences on both sides by pak and india .
2: During Red alert any jet violating airspace for even an inch means Shoot DOWN . And when group of jets with live ammo violate ur aispace . It only depicts whether incompetency or criminal negligence . 
3: how come PAF unaware of dozen jets entering danger no fly zone of10 km from loc and than entering in pak airspace . 
4 :why paf unable to shoot BVR missile ranging 100 km to indian mirages or PAF jets were locked on ....., radar jammed .... or even so late to respond

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Sad situation for Pakistan....Blame goes to cowardice and too much thinking of army and PAF

We are humiliated. 

Shame on PAF....

Indians won this one.

Will write on this soon

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## Mace

Devil Soul said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100331869617426432



I doubt IK has full knowledge of training camps. If he means peace this is the best time for him to get a grasp on the training camps and initiate the gradual closure of training camps. Pathan’s credibility is at stake.


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## Devil Soul

Mace said:


> I doubt IK has full knowledge of training camps. If he means peace this is the best time for him to get a grasp on the training camps and initiate the gradual closure of training camps. Pathan’s credibility is at stake.


you need to worry about ur Chai Walla's Credibility , We may have political difference, but u got no business talking about *our PM* like this .... go worry about ur Chai Walla.....


----------



## Osiris

*Balakot: India 'strikes militants in Pakistani territory'*

India says it launched air strikes against militants in Pakistani territory in a major escalation of tensions between the two countries.

A top Indian minister said strikes targeted a training camp of the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) group in Balakot.

Pakistan said the strikes hit an empty area but vowed to respond.

Relations between the nuclear-armed neighbours have been strained since a suicide attack earlier this month that killed more than 40 Indian troops.

India accuses Pakistan of allowing militant groups to operate on its territory and says Pakistani security agencies played a role in the 14 February attack - claimed by JeM. Pakistan denies any role and says it does not provide safe haven to militants.

Tuesday's air strikes are the first launched across the line of control - the de facto border that divides India-administered Kashmir from Pakistan-administered Kashmir - since a war between the two countries in 1971.

*Balakot is in Pakistan's north-western Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province. Residents there told BBC Urdu they were woken by loud explosions.*

Pakistan condemned the strike and said it would respond "at the time and place of its choosing".
Indian Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale told a news conference that the strikes had killed a "large number" of militants, including commanders, and had avoided civilian casualties.

"Credible intel [intelligence] was received that JeM was planning more suicide attacks in India. In the face of imminent danger, a pre-emptive strike became absolutely necessary," he said.

Pakistan's army spokesman Major General Asif Ghafoor, however, said the strikes caused no casualties. He tweeted that Pakistani jets were scrambled and forced the Indian planes to make a "hasty withdrawal", dropping their payload in an open area.



I








Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi did not directly mention the air strikes when he addressed a political rally in Rajasthan later on Tuesday but he told cheering crowds: "I understand your enthusiasm and your energy. Today is a day we bow before our heroes."

India is due to hold elections by the end of May.

*Residents in several towns near Balakot reported hearing explosions early on Tuesday.*

*Mohammad Adil, a farmer in Jaba village, told BBC Urdu he and his family were woken at about 03:00 by "a huge explosion".*

*"Then we heard jets flying over. We went to the place in the morning. There was a huge crater and four or five houses were destroyed," he said.*

The air strikes follow the suicide attack on an Indian security convoy in Pulwama, in Indian-administered Kashmir, earlier this month.













*'Caught in the middle'*
*Analysis by Sameer Yasir, Srinagar*

Worry and concern were visible all over Srinagar city in Indian-administered Kashmir on Tuesday as news of the air strike spread.

"Whatever is happening between these two hostile neighbours, it's us who are in the middle of this war theatre," Shabir Aakhoon, a banker, said.

Many also said they hoped it would finally ease the high tensions following the Pulwama attack.

Over the past three days, a heavy military build-up has caused panic.

Anticipating full-scale war, civilians started stockpiling food and crowding petrol pumps, triggering traffic jams in many places.

"Now that the BJP [India's governing party] has got its big election moment, it should stop freaking out Kashmir just to get votes," Saziya Sultan, a teacher, said.





*What happened in Pulwama?*
On 14 February, 46 Indian paramilitary police were killed in a militant operation there. It was the deadliest attack on Indian forces in Kashmir for decades.

The assault was claimed by Pakistan-based JeM, and prompted a spike in tensions.

Pakistan denied involvement, while India said its neighbour had had a "direct hand" in the attack, and accused it of providing sanctuary to the militants.

Both India and Pakistan claim all of Muslim-majority Kashmir, but control only parts of it. The nations have fought three wars and a limited conflict since independence from Britain in 1947 - and all but one were over Kashmir.

Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan said on Sunday his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi should "give peace a chance". He added that if India provided "actionable intelligence" regarding the Pulwama attack that proved Pakistani involvement, "we will immediately act".

On Saturday, Mr Modi had called on Mr Khan to join India in fighting poverty and illiteracy, instead of the pair fighting each other.


----------



## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100344610629607425


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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100267749895520256


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## Devil Soul

*We will avenge our trees *

Reactions: Like Like:
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## pzfz

Areesh said:


> Got to agree with you
> 
> ISPR made a pathetic response after this incident.


that's par for the course with them. said it before and i'll say it again: bajwa/ghafoor is the worst combo ever.


----------



## Amaa'n

Osiris said:


> *Balakot: India 'strikes militants in Pakistani territory'*
> 
> India says it launched air strikes against militants in Pakistani territory in a major escalation of tensions between the two countries.
> 
> A top Indian minister said strikes targeted a training camp of the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) group in Balakot.
> 
> Pakistan said the strikes hit an empty area but vowed to respond.
> 
> Relations between the nuclear-armed neighbours have been strained since a suicide attack earlier this month that killed more than 40 Indian troops.
> 
> India accuses Pakistan of allowing militant groups to operate on its territory and says Pakistani security agencies played a role in the 14 February attack - claimed by JeM. Pakistan denies any role and says it does not provide safe haven to militants.
> 
> Tuesday's air strikes are the first launched across the line of control - the de facto border that divides India-administered Kashmir from Pakistan-administered Kashmir - since a war between the two countries in 1971.
> 
> *Balakot is in Pakistan's north-western Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province. Residents there told BBC Urdu they were woken by loud explosions.*
> 
> Pakistan condemned the strike and said it would respond "at the time and place of its choosing".
> Indian Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale told a news conference that the strikes had killed a "large number" of militants, including commanders, and had avoided civilian casualties.
> 
> "Credible intel [intelligence] was received that JeM was planning more suicide attacks in India. In the face of imminent danger, a pre-emptive strike became absolutely necessary," he said.
> 
> Pakistan's army spokesman Major General Asif Ghafoor, however, said the strikes caused no casualties. He tweeted that Pakistani jets were scrambled and forced the Indian planes to make a "hasty withdrawal", dropping their payload in an open area.
> 
> 
> 
> I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi did not directly mention the air strikes when he addressed a political rally in Rajasthan later on Tuesday but he told cheering crowds: "I understand your enthusiasm and your energy. Today is a day we bow before our heroes."
> 
> India is due to hold elections by the end of May.
> 
> *Residents in several towns near Balakot reported hearing explosions early on Tuesday.*
> 
> *Mohammad Adil, a farmer in Jaba village, told BBC Urdu he and his family were woken at about 03:00 by "a huge explosion".*
> 
> *"Then we heard jets flying over. We went to the place in the morning. There was a huge crater and four or five houses were destroyed," he said.*
> 
> The air strikes follow the suicide attack on an Indian security convoy in Pulwama, in Indian-administered Kashmir, earlier this month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *'Caught in the middle'*
> *Analysis by Sameer Yasir, Srinagar*
> 
> Worry and concern were visible all over Srinagar city in Indian-administered Kashmir on Tuesday as news of the air strike spread.
> 
> "Whatever is happening between these two hostile neighbours, it's us who are in the middle of this war theatre," Shabir Aakhoon, a banker, said.
> 
> Many also said they hoped it would finally ease the high tensions following the Pulwama attack.
> 
> Over the past three days, a heavy military build-up has caused panic.
> 
> Anticipating full-scale war, civilians started stockpiling food and crowding petrol pumps, triggering traffic jams in many places.
> 
> "Now that the BJP [India's governing party] has got its big election moment, it should stop freaking out Kashmir just to get votes," Saziya Sultan, a teacher, said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What happened in Pulwama?*
> On 14 February, 46 Indian paramilitary police were killed in a militant operation there. It was the deadliest attack on Indian forces in Kashmir for decades.
> 
> The assault was claimed by Pakistan-based JeM, and prompted a spike in tensions.
> 
> Pakistan denied involvement, while India said its neighbour had had a "direct hand" in the attack, and accused it of providing sanctuary to the militants.
> 
> Both India and Pakistan claim all of Muslim-majority Kashmir, but control only parts of it. The nations have fought three wars and a limited conflict since independence from Britain in 1947 - and all but one were over Kashmir.
> 
> Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan said on Sunday his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi should "give peace a chance". He added that if India provided "actionable intelligence" regarding the Pulwama attack that proved Pakistani involvement, "we will immediately act".
> 
> On Saturday, Mr Modi had called on Mr Khan to join India in fighting poverty and illiteracy, instead of the pair fighting each other.


we requested BBC Urdu correspondents to share a single evidence back their claims up.....no one has bother to reply yet. I have tagged Info Ministry to take care of these paid stooges....Pak did it's job, shared the evidence of area where the Fuel tanks dropped....that is a fact....what india says, what BBC reports, it doesn't worth a dime because it is all hearsay

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## Mace

Devil Soul said:


> you need to worry about ur Chai Walla's Credibility , We may have political difference, but u got no business talking about *our PM* like this .... go worry about ur Chai Walla.....



Don’t get so touchy. IM probably best bet for lasting peace from Pak’s side. Every effort should be made to strengthen his hand.

Chai wala’s Credibility at the moment sky high. He called Pak’s bluff. There is no doubt there was serious damage done by IAF, otherwise RGandhi will be on his case like a plague


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## Ryuzaki

The Pakistani drone in the Kutch area was shot down by a ‘Derby’ missile from Israeli air defence system SPYDER. First time system used to target enemy aircraft.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100345893470064640


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## Osiris

balixd said:


> we requested BBC Urdu correspondents to share a single evidence back their claims up.....no one has bother to reply yet. I have tagged Info Ministry to take care of these paid stooges....Pak did it's job, shared the evidence of area where the Fuel tanks dropped....that is a fact....what india says, what BBC reports, it doesn't worth a dime because it is all hearsay



So now even BBC is lying...okay.


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## ARMalik

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/4...howing-indian-intrusion-in-pak-is-3-years-old
*Fact check: Video showing Indian intrusion in Pak is 3 years old, published on Youtube in 2016*

Indian media channels have resorted to false propaganda by making use of a video that shows Indian Air Force conducting an aerial intrusion into Pakistani territory along the Line of Control (LoC) Tuesday morning. 

The video it appears is at least three years old.

The Indian government and its media have been blatantly claiming to have killed at least 300 after 'destroying camps of Jaish-e-Mohammad', in the said video which is present on YouTube since 2016.

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## PDF

Our trees and land were damaged. 
The payload comprised of live ammunition/bombs. India has itself invited Pakistan to respond. Hope the situation calms down.


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## Devil Soul




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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100347445773565952He will take few days to burry the dead pi...

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## HRK

Areesh said:


> This guy is already posting fake videos on the name of BBC urdu. This is what a BBC urdu journalist said
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100322377764876288
> Even in that video nothing special is mentioned except 1 hut getting damaged and 1 injury


4 ganta baad damaka howa .... abe kya peya howa hai ye ....
I mean really intrusion happened at 3:50 Am in the morning and he heard first explosion after 4 hours and then after 6 hours .....??? what the hack is he talking 

and he claiming to hear 3-4 explosions not even Indian are claiming such things .....


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## Areesh

HRK said:


> 4 ganta baad damaka howa .... abe kya peya howa hai ye ....
> I mean really intrusion happened at 3:50 Am in the morning and he heard first explosion after 4 hours and then after 6 hours .....??? what the hack is he talking



Bharation ka naya manjan hai.

kuch din khush rahain gai. Phir kuch hoga. Aur phir wohi randi rona.

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## aanshu001

Nothing happened? So why don't show the places to media with live telecast? 3.30 a.m to 4.30 p.m why single Pakistani Media channel is not on ground reporting to counter Indian claims?

It was well executed operation and for those why IAF turned back, it was bombing mission not war.

Baki aao abhi haveli pe


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## untitled

HRK said:


> and he claiming to hear 3-4 explosions not even Indian are claiming such things


Could it be the ordnance jettisoned by the Indian jets?

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## Devil Soul



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## HalfMoon




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## Areesh

aanshu001 said:


> Nothing happened? So why don't show the places to media with live telecast? 3.30 a.m to 4.30 p.m why single Pakistani Media channel is not on ground reporting to counter Indian claims?
> 
> It was well executed operation and for those why IAF turned back, it was bombing mission not war.
> 
> Baki aao abhi haveli pe



Weather is bad. Pakistan would take international and local journalists to balakot today or at best tomorrow

After all IAF has done so much damage in Balakot it is impossible to hide all of it by Pakistan. Right???

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## HalfMoon




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## HRK

CHACHA"G" said:


> Read the fallowing twits ………… @Sugarcane , @HRK , @Areesh , @Arsalan 345 , @M.Musa


what is there so special ... which I am missing ... ??


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## Indus Pakistan

Guys it's clear India intruded into Pakistan as deep as 30 miles from LOC. Whether they attacked anything is moot. I personally doubt they attacked anything but by dropping a payload 30 miles across the LOC, they not only entered Azad Kashmir but intruded into K-Pk, Pakistan. What does this do?


It clearly established India intruded deep into Pakistan.
It confirms PAF is a fcukin class A "chutiya" airforce. Fanbois notwithstanding. Our @MastanKhan had opened a thread on PAF's "chutitaness" only few days ago.

The fact is by intruding 30 miles inside Pakistan IAF has established it can will nilly enter Pakistan with impunity thus giving Modi his 'meat' now to brag to thre world. For Pakistan it confirms PAF has no fighting guts. As usual [1999] iand OBL raid [2010] t has been found sleeping. Frankly the only fighting force in Pakistan is the army. The navy and airfirce are chutiyas. Good for shows and brag rights.

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## CriticalThought

Indus Pakistan said:


> Guys it's clear India intruded into Pakistan as deep as 30 miles from LOC. Whether they attacked anything is moot. I personally doubt they attacked anything but by dropping a payload 30 miles across the LOC, they not only entered Azad Kashmir but intruded into K-Pk, Pakistan. What does this do?
> 
> 
> It clearly established India intruded deep into Pakistan.
> It confirms PAF is a fcukin class A "chutiya" airforce. Fanbois notwithstanding. Our @MastanKhan had opened a thread on PAF's "chutitaness" only few days ago.
> 
> The fact is by intruding 30 miles inside Pakistan IAF has established it can will nilly enter Pakistan with impunity thus giving Modi his 'meat' now to brag to thre world. For Pakistan it confirms PAF has no fighting guts. As usual [1999] iand OBL raid [2010] t has been found sleeping. Frankly the only fighting force in Pakistan is the army. The navy and airfirce are chutiyas. Good for shows and brag rights.



And what is your source for this 30 miles claim?


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## aanshu001

Areesh said:


> Weather is bad. Pakistan would take international and local journalists to balakot today or at best tomorrow
> 
> After all IAF has done so much damage in Balakot it is impossible to hide all of it by Pakistan. Right???



Why not use bulldozer and levelar to hide the things. Bad weather bhai pakistani airforce ke aise helicopters nahin hai kya jo wahan land kar saken. 13 ghante se jayada ho gaye hain


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## Areesh

aanshu001 said:


> Why not use bulldozer and levelar to hide the things. Bad weather bhai pakistani airforce ke aise helicopters nahin hai kya jo wahan land kar saken. 13 ghante se jayada ho gaye hain



13 ghantai to IAF k liye bhi ho gaye hain

Why not show gun camera footage from IAF aircraft that destroyed the so called command center and killed hundreds of militants???

Within next few hours journalists would be at that place. IAF won't launch any footage even then.


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## Path-Finder

Indus Pakistan said:


> Guys it's clear India intruded into Pakistan as deep as 30 miles from LOC. Whether they attacked anything is moot. I personally doubt they attacked anything but by dropping a payload 30 miles across the LOC, they not only entered Azad Kashmir but intruded into K-Pk, Pakistan. What does this do?
> 
> 
> It clearly established India intruded deep into Pakistan.
> It confirms PAF is a fcukin class A "chutiya" airforce. Fanbois notwithstanding. Our @MastanKhan had opened a thread on PAF's "chutitaness" only few days ago.
> 
> The fact is by intruding 30 miles inside Pakistan IAF has established it can will nilly enter Pakistan with impunity thus giving Modi his 'meat' now to brag to thre world. For Pakistan it confirms PAF has no fighting guts. As usual [1999] iand OBL raid [2010] t has been found sleeping. Frankly the only fighting force in Pakistan is the army. The navy and airfirce are chutiyas. Good for shows and brag rights.



re-check your info before writing up an essay!!


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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100355679204843520


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## Amaa'n

it appears to me Indians have forgotten about this, when we were provoked & called out






https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...stan-troops-as-Kashmir-dispute-escalates.html



enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100355679204843520


Jeff is being naive and behaving like a kid....China has investment in Pakistan & India, it will allow anything that can put that at risk....especially if China wants to become regional power....

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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100351072328187904


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## Indus Pakistan

And fanboi's of PAF can make excuses for Kargil. They can make even exuses for OBL raid in 2010. But what excuse are they going to come up with for this* Balakot fiasco*? Pulwama happened over week ago. Even PDF armchair generals knew India would or could launch a attack. PAF should have been on red fuckin alert. So it's not they have a excuse "sir we were sleeping" and "the enemy sir cheated they did not tell us they were coming". These "cheatin Hindoo's". No excuse. All we heard was and 'misadeventure would get befitting response".

The only way PAF can ever in my estimation recover honour is by launching a similiar strike into India double the IAF at least 70 miles inside India. Failing that a entire squadron of PAF should do the Japanese Hara Kiri in shame. We don't want to know how PAF can defeat fcukin Israel, or USAF. Just please keep the Indians at bay.

Chances are it will fall on the Pakistan Army to recover our national honour and extract some revenge on the LOC. In the meantime get rid of PAF and PN. Useless. Both of them. I know fanboi's are gonna make excuses but look at this map below. Now again I say. Unless PAF replies in kind within next week then PAF needs to do Hara Kiri. Just keep one squadron to do fly past on Defence Day. That is it.

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## untitled

Indus Pakistan said:


> Guys it's clear India intruded into Pakistan as deep as 30 miles from LOC


If this is true then they should have manned up and admitted this blunder. Many a force in history has been humbled by sneak/surprise attacks. We might have forgiven them atleast once more, and they would have had our full support


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## Indus Pakistan

member.exe said:


> If this is true then they should have manned up and admitted this blunder. Many a force has been in history has been humbled in by sneak/surprise attacks.


WE know it's true because payload was dropped in Balakot. You have seen pictures. PAF should have been on red alert so the idea of "sneak does not apply". You think in war the enemy phones you up with time and date? Or rings you and tells you "het we gonna come at 3.00am' have your alarm clock set for 2;30am to wake up? Expect the unexpected. I know that is a cliche but very true.

Furthermore it was most expect that any such intrusion would take place along LOC so this should not have been a surprise. Now the only way to recover honour is doing the same on India. Drop a 'payload' deep within India.

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## Ahassan

Devil Soul said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100351072328187904


i swear brother this is soo relateable and accurate ....lmfao hahahahahahahahahahahah


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## Indus Pakistan

Just so as to be clear Pakistan has not lost a war. With nukes in place there is no danger of Pakistan losing. But given the nukes and MAD in place both sides are reduced to these petty point scoring. And if Pakistan can't handle that PAF needs downsizing and defence just left to nukes. No more wasted money on usless jets.

@MastanKhan you were so right!

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## untitled

Indus Pakistan said:


> WE know it's true because payload was dropped in Balakot.


Not defending PAF. Nor can they be defended today.
There confusion earlier that the "Balakot" in question was the village near the LOC. This is inside KPK.
Like you said even if they didn't manage to hit anything and they (the IAF) managed to make their way back makes PAF look pretty stupid


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## RPK

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100296050370174976


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## Windjammer

Indus Pakistan said:


> And fanboi's of PAF can make excuses for Kargil. They can make even exuses for OBL raid in 2010. But what excuse are they going to come up with for this* Balakot fiasco*? Pulwama happened over week ago. Even PDF armchair generals knew India would or could launch a attack. PAF should have been on red fuckin alert. So it's not they have a excuse "sir we were sleeping" and "the enemy sir cheated they did not tell us they were coming". These "cheatin Hindoo's". No excuse. All we heard was and 'misadeventure would get befitting response".
> 
> The only way PAF can ever in my estimation recover honour is by launching a similiar strike into India double the IAF at least 70 miles inside India. Failing that a entire squadron of PAF should do the Japanese Hara Kiri in shame. We don't want to know how PAF can defeat fcukin Israel, or USAF. Just please keep the Indians at bay.
> 
> Chances are it will fall on the Pakistan Army to recover our national honour and extract some revenge on the LOC. In the meantime get rid of PAF and PN. Useless. Both of them. I know fanboi's are gonna make excuses but look at this map below. Now again I say. Unless PAF replies in kind within next week then PAF needs to do Hara Kiri. Just keep one squadron to do fly past on Defence Day. That is it.


There's much confusion as it's not Balakot in KPK but Balakote right on LOC.


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## RPK



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## Osiris

Windjammer said:


> There's much confusion as it's not Balakot in KPK but Balakote right on LOC.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346
Does Bala kote on LOC lie near Muzzafrabad.

Because your ISPR claimed, attack was Muzzafrabad sector.

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## untitled

Windjammer said:


> Balakote right on LOC.


But that is not what the DG ISPR tweet says:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346


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## The Eagle

balixd said:


> it appears to me Indians have forgotten about this, when we were provoked & called out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...stan-troops-as-Kashmir-dispute-escalates.html
> 
> 
> Jeff is being naive and behaving like a kid....China has investment in Pakistan & India, it will allow anything that can put that at risk....especially if China wants to become regional power....



Jeff is just taking advantage of situation. Guess what, he isn't Jeff but someone else...


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## Indus Pakistan

CriticalThought said:


> And what is your source for this 30 miles claim?


Can you not do your own research. Must you need finger fed.






Indian military planes violated the Line of Control (LoC), intruding from the Muzaffarabad sector, Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major-General Asif Ghafoor said on his official Twitter account early on Tuesday.

ISPR says Pakistani forces responded effectively
Payload dropped at Balakot
No casualties
https://www.dawn.com/news/1466038/i...scramble-back-after-pafs-timely-response-ispr

*Balakot* is nearly 35 miles from LOC in Khyber Pakhtunkwa.

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## enquencher

anews from source. Iran moves fighter jets to its border.
Can any iranian confirm it .


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## Bindas

Windjammer said:


> There's much confusion as it's not Balakot in KPK but Balakote right on LOC.
> 
> View attachment 542055




no confusion it is Balakot in KPK.


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## Taimoor Khan

I have got confirmation from sources within PAF that it was a botched attempt.

But even that is the case, Pakistan as a state still have not realised the importance of propaganda and narrative. You have already lost the war of narrative, rest is irrelevant. Drama and theatrics are now part of modern warfare. If our armed forces high ups are still clueless, they better not be in the positions they occupy. India still have wankfest over the drama that was sir je kal strikes and now this.

Unfortunately, there is no other way now but to retaliate militarily in some shape or form or the confidence in the capabilities of Pakistani armed forces among the masses will drop to dangerous levels. You simply cannot have these dramas by your mortals enemies, and get away with it every time.

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## Amaa'n

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100356858928381957Indians need to eat their shit



Bindas said:


> no confusion it is Balakot in KPK.


above post for you

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## Areesh

balixd said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100356858928381957Indians need to eat their shit
> 
> 
> above post for you



Here you go @Osiris 

I can see massive damage that IAF has done in that place


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## Amaa'n

above post for you


Indus Pakistan said:


> Can you not do your own research. Must you need finger fed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian military planes violated the Line of Control (LoC), intruding from the Muzaffarabad sector, Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major-General Asif Ghafoor said on his official Twitter account early on Tuesday.
> 
> ISPR says Pakistani forces responded effectively
> Payload dropped at Balakot
> No casualties
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466038/i...scramble-back-after-pafs-timely-response-ispr
> 
> *Balakot* is nearly 35 miles from LOC in Khyber Pakhtunkwa.


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## Indus Pakistan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


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## Benign Persona

does it matter if IAF come 4 km inside or 40? No, does it matter if they drop a Bomb or a fuel tank? no, does it matter if they kill 30 people or 10 trees? no, non of these matter when they are telling the whole world they we went inside and kill 300 of them and shaming us infront of the whole world while we shamelessly denying that nothing happen. if they saying we did it then our response should have been the same.

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## Windjammer



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## Amaa'n

The Eagle said:


> Jeff is just taking advantage of situation. Guess what, he isn't Jeff but someone else...


sad indeed.....reminds me of Zaki Khalid from Lhr, who would act the same way and then landed nowhere

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## CHACHA"G"

HRK said:


> what is there so special ... which I am missing ... ??


Apparently They stayed in Pak air for about 12 minutes and our Air force and air defence failed to shoot them down....

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## Indus Pakistan

balixd said:


> above post for you


With due respect -


DG ISPR confirmed IAF dropped payload in *Balakot* area
This confirms the fact that IAF had intruded at least 35 miles into Pakistan from the LOC.
We can beat this till cows come home but fact is IAF intruded in Pak airspace with impunity.
These are facts which Indians will now use to brag. We can try to reduce them but these are facts.
Ony a PAF intrusion into India of similiar depth at minimum can be 'retribution'.

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## Amaa'n

CHACHA"G" said:


> *Apparently* They stayed in Pak air for about 12 minutes and our Air force and air defence failed to shoot them down....


and you expect a response based on that word? Apparently?


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## Army research

Indus Pakistan said:


> With due respect -
> 
> 
> DG ISPR confirmed IAF dropped payload in *Balakot* area
> This confirms the fact that IAF had intruded at least 35 miles into Pakistan from the LOC.
> We can beat this till cows come home but fact is IAF intruded in Pak airspace with impunity.


Hope theirs a retaliation, but then again I remeber the sir major who attained martyrdom in 2016 by namak haramis in torkham and there were daway of invasion of afg for revenge but all we did was condemn

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## ARMalik

Windjammer said:


> There's much confusion as it's not Balakot in KPK but Balakote right on LOC.
> 
> View attachment 542055



If this is true, then this DG ISPR is a buffoon. He should have taken his time and clearly articulated on where the *incursion occurred*. Instead this *guy has created more confusion*, and for this his arse needs to be *fired and someone *who has the right background to deal with media needs to be appointed. 

Secondly, why did the indian jets got rid of their payloads? The only logical explanation in my view is that as soon as these jets entered Balakote, they were *encountered by the PAF jets*, and hence the indian jets needed to escape *hastily*. They had to get rid of their *payloads so to increase their speed *since the payloads were a drag on their speed. 

In saying this, when the indian jets entered Pak airspace, PAF should have allowed these jets to fly further inside Pak territory. In doing so, the PAF had a good opportunity to surround them and shoot them. Instead PAF took the easy option, and let them escape. *This in my view was just pathetic. *

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## Indus Pakistan

Benign Persona said:


> does it matter if IAF come 4 km inside or 40? No, does it matter if they drop a Bomb or a fuel tank? no, does it matter if they kill 30 people or 10 trees? no, non of these matter when they are telling the whole world they we went inside and kill 300 of them and shaming us infront of the whole world while we shamelessly denying that nothing happen. if they saying we did it then our response should have been the same.


Bingo.

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## untitled

Taimoor Khan said:


> I have got confirmation from sources within PAF that it was a botched attempt.


Botched in what way? They came in and went out and dropped whatever the "air to mud" weapons they were carrying on Pakistani soil and lived to tell the tale.

Even more concerning is the fact that what if they had been carrying nukes


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## Army research

Imran Khan saab if you can read this , do something any thing just destroy a bloody bunker on loc or a cprf site , kill only 10 20 but by God if you don't there will be trouble for you , the Iranians and namak haramis will think we are weak and American too perhaps, the ptm will become stronger and the country will deteriorate

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## Wrath

Novice09 said:


> Even best friend is...
> 
> View attachment 541958


 Well after his *** is being kicked everywhere in his Homeland , that's what I expected


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## Amaa'n

Indus Pakistan said:


> With due respect -
> 
> 
> DG ISPR confirmed IAF dropped payload in *Balakot* area
> This confirms the fact that IAF had intruded at least 35 miles into Pakistan from the LOC.
> We can beat this till cows come home but fact is IAF intruded in Pak airspace with impunity.


and with all due respect, his tweet also said intrusion was from Muzafrabad side at LoC.....footage taken at the site is presented for scrutiny..... 

 Indian foreign sec has maintained that strike was in Azad Kashmir, this confusion started only when our media picked it up and then ANI tweeted.
Media is present on ground in Balakot, no smoke can be seen anywhere in the area.....
No doubt IAF intruded, but they were intercepted in time, that is a fact, them dropping a payload is a proof in itself that they ran with tail b/w their legs

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## Windjammer

Benign Persona said:


> does it matter if IAF come 4 km inside or 40? No, does it matter if they drop a Bomb or a fuel tank? no, does it matter if they kill 30 people or 10 trees? no, non of these matter when they are telling the whole world they we went inside and kill 300 of them and shaming us infront of the whole world while we shamelessly denying that nothing happen. if they saying we did it then our response should have been the same.


Let the Indians enjoy their minute of fame and then we will show them what is real glory.
How do you think Indians will sleep after today....we could easily fire a weapon or two to hit Indian soil...but
Revenge is a dish best served cold.

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## Dr. Strangelove

ARMalik said:


> If this is true, then this DG ISPR is a buffoon. He should have taken his time and clearly articulated on where the *incursion occurred*. Instead this *guy has created more confusion*, and for this his arse needs to be *fired and someone *who has the right background to deal with media needs to be appointed.
> 
> Secondly, why did the indian jets got rid of their payloads? The only logical explanation in my view is that as soon as these jets entered Balakote, they were *encountered by the PAF jets*, and hence the indian jets needed to escape *hastily*. They had to get rid of their *payloads so to increase their speed *since the payloads were a drag on their speed.
> 
> In saying this, when the indian jets entered Pak airspace, PAF should have allowed these jets to fly further inside Pak territory. In doing so, the PAF had a good opportunity to surround them and shoot them. Instead PAF took the easy option, and let them escape. *This in my view was just pathetic. *


he clearly mentioned 3-4 mile air space penetration


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## The Eagle

balixd said:


> sad indeed.....reminds me of Zaki Khalid from Lhr, who would act the same way and then landed nowhere



His institute is struggling with analysts services to secure more & you are, indeed in knowledge. Can't agree more & obviously, the end is nowhere & a propagandist tag will be assigned. Pakistan direly needs a counter propaganda team to deal with such matters on different levels/mediums.

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## Indus Pakistan

ARMalik said:


> If this is true, then this DG ISPR is a buffoon. He should have taken his time and clearly articulated on where the *incursion occurred*. Instead this *guy has created more confusion*, and for this his arse needs to be *fired and someone *who has the right background to deal with media needs to be appointed.
> 
> Secondly, why did the indian jets got rid of their payloads? The only logical explanation in my view is that as soon as these jets entered Balakote, they were *encountered by the PAF jets*, and hence the indian jets needed to escape *hastily*. They had to get rid of their *payloads so to increase their speed *since the payloads were a drag on their speed.
> 
> In saying this, when the indian jets entered Pak airspace, PAF should have allowed these jets to fly further inside Pak territory. In doing so, the PAF had a good opportunity to surround them and shoot them. Instead PAF took the easy option, and let them escape. *This in my view was just pathetic. *


The appropriate response to any Indian intrusion, one mile or ten miles or one hundred miles is pull them in , trap the b*astards and then give them hell by shooting some down. Can you guys imagine if right nw we had a tailfin of a IAF fighter with Indian trianga. We would had a propaganda coup and chastised India in front of the world by calling over the world media,

Instead it is the Indians calling the world media and blustering ....

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## CHACHA"G"

balixd said:


> and you expect a response based on that word? Apparently?


Ask Moead Pirzada……….. He twit it...………. Not me ………….. For me one inch violation is act of war ……. I give a dam about 4 km or 40 km ……… 
People can try their best to keep it cool and try to act nothing happened , deep in side we all know "They came inside Pakistan , They bombes and they gone back " ………….. FACT...…. 
Now ho deep they came inside , what the bomb ,,,,,, and how they run away is not the issue...….

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## Indus Pakistan

CHACHA"G" said:


> Ask Moead Pirzada……….. He twit it...………. Not me ………….. For me one inch violation is act of war ……. I give a dam about 4 km or 40 km ………
> People can try their best to keep it cool and try to act nothing happened , deep in side we all know "They came inside Pakistan , They bombes and they gone back " ………….. FACT...….
> Now ho deep they came inside , what the bomb ,,,,,, and how they run away is not the issue...….


At least your honest enough to yourself to accept the reality. Only way to learn lesson and move forward ..

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## Wrath

Novice09 said:


> Bro, news channels and their SOURCES... Try to understand... they have a 24×7 news channel...
> Just wait for few more hours... you will start getting animations depicting the attack...
> 
> No number is given by the government or IAF...


No one puts 300 plus proxy fighters at one place . It's not like that . There have been never any such attacks reported in Afghanistan while US invasion. So don't just keep buying what Indian media tells you.


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## Republic

Army research said:


> Imran Khan saab if you can read this , do something any thing just destroy a bloody bunker on loc or a cprf site , kill only 10 20 but by God if you don't there will be trouble for you , the Iranians and namak haramis will think we are weak and American too perhaps, the ptm will become stronger and the country will deteriorate



Great calling to your PM while cooling your @$$ off in England. If you have so much itch to revenge, why not come to pakistan and join Masood Azhar ???


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## Menace2Society

Indus Pakistan said:


> The appropriate response to any Indian intrusion, one mile or ten miles or one hundred miles is pull them in , trap the b*astards and then give them hell by shooting some down. Can you guys imagine if right nw we had a tailfin of a IAF fighter with Indian trianga. We would had a propaganda coup and chastised India in front of the world by calling over the world media,
> 
> Instead it is the Indians calling the world media and blustering ....



As always PAF watching their radars too unsure to act and let enemy jets enter airspace. Then leave it to army PR man to bust some chops on twitter.

What the f**k is this? Odd behaviour.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

member.exe said:


> Botched in what way? They came in and went out and dropped whatever the "air to mud" weapons they were carrying on Pakistani soil and lived to tell the tale.
> 
> Even more concerning is the fact that what if they had been carrying nukes?



They indeed came in like 3 kms which is nothing in terms of airspace violations, but it was just the fuel tanks they jettisoned to lose weight and gain speed on their runner.

However, no denying that there is a huge wankfest going on in media and they are winning the war of propaganda and narrative. This is something we have always been in shambles, the media war.

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## Surenas

Army research said:


> Imran Khan saab if you can read this , do something any thing just destroy a bloody bunker on loc or a cprf site , kill only 10 20 but by God if you don't there will be trouble for you , the Iranians and namak haramis will think we are weak and American too perhaps, the ptm will become stronger and the country will deteriorate



We already thought you were weak. This didn't change that view.



Taimoor Khan said:


> They indeed came in like 3 kms which is nothing in terms of airspace violations, but it was just the fuel tanks they jettisoned to lose weight and gain speed on their runner.



Sure, they did. Keep believing that ridiculous explanatation.


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## ARMalik

Indus Pakistan said:


> The appropriate response to any Indian intrusion, one mile or ten miles or one hundred miles is pull them in , trap the b*astards and then give them hell by shooting some down. Can you guys imagine if right nw we had a tailfin of a IAF fighter with Indian trianga. We would had a propaganda coup and chastised India in front of the world by calling over the world media,
> 
> Instead it is the Indians calling the world media and blustering ....



Absolutely spot on. Just imagine, IAF jets surrounded, then shot or even forced to land inside Pakistan territory. It would have given a clear message to everyone not to mess with Pakistan. The whole World would have laughed at india and made fun of it. Just imagine, the videos flowing around the internet showing IAF jets burning on the ground.

Instead, *PAF has created an situation *where I would not be surprised if *even Iran and A-Stan start talking about Surgical strikes *inside Pakistan. For putting this country in such a bad situation, the PAF should be *deplored and criticized *in every possible way, and the PAF Chief needs to be sacked for being a paper tiger and doing a terrible job.

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## Wrath

Riz said:


> Breaking.... Ik orders army and nation be ready for war... Enough is Enough


Never . Precise and appropriate strikes might happen. But not war. One IAF base should be targeted .


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## CriticalThought

Indus Pakistan said:


> Can you not do your own research. Must you need finger fed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian military planes violated the Line of Control (LoC), intruding from the Muzaffarabad sector, Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations Major-General Asif Ghafoor said on his official Twitter account early on Tuesday.
> 
> ISPR says Pakistani forces responded effectively
> Payload dropped at Balakot
> No casualties
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466038/i...scramble-back-after-pafs-timely-response-ispr
> 
> *Balakot* is nearly 35 miles from LOC in Khyber Pakhtunkwa.



I wanted it from your mouth so I can call out your misinformation. This is what DG ISPR actually said:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346


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## Taimoor Khan

Surenas said:


> Sure, they did. Keep believing that ridiculous explanatation.



Why don't you lot put your money where your mouth is and show us all the damage assessment pics and videos of IAF? When they are releasing it? what time is the debriefing?


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## Wrath

Maxpane said:


> chor yar . they cant afford it


Sir maybe Army and IK are planning on playing it smart .


----------



## Wrath

Goku-kun said:


> Imran Khan will hand over the authority of use of Nuclear and ballastic missiles to Army tomorrow..


Nope. I don't think .


----------



## Maxpane

in propaganda war we lost again


----------



## Windjammer

ARMalik said:


> If this is true, then this DG ISPR is a buffoon. He should have taken his time and clearly articulated on where the *incursion occurred*. Instead this *guy has created more confusion*, and for this his arse needs to be *fired and someone *who has the right background to deal with media needs to be appointed.
> 
> Secondly, why did the indian jets got rid of their payloads? The only logical explanation in my view is that as soon as these jets entered Balakote, they were *encountered by the PAF jets*, and hence the indian jets needed to escape *hastily*. They had to get rid of their *payloads so to increase their speed *since the payloads were a drag on their speed.
> 
> In saying this, when the indian jets entered Pak airspace, PAF should have allowed these jets to fly further inside Pak territory. In doing so, the PAF had a good opportunity to surround them and shoot them. Instead PAF took the easy option, and let them escape. *This in my view was just pathetic. *


I highly doubt the IAF had the intentions or capability to venture deep inside Pakistan, they Indian military hand in glove with the government performed these actions to feed the gullible Indian public.
The jettisoning of load was indeed to escape PAF interceptors. And all those confusing Balakot with Balakote, well see for yourselves, people in Balakot are busy voting in a local election.


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## Surenas

Taimoor Khan said:


> Why don't you lot put your money where your mouth is and show us all the damage assessment pics and videos of IAF? When they are releasing it? what time is the debriefing?



They don't need to further embarrass the Pakistani government. The whole world is currently laughing at the official explanation of the Pakistani army regarding the event.


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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100358519256158208

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## PDF

ISPR going to brief soon.

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## untitled

Taimoor Khan said:


> They indeed came in like 3 kms which is nothing in terms of airspace violations


It is not 3-4 km. The ISPR tweet mentions Balakot, KPK

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


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## CHACHA"G"

Taimoor Khan said:


> They indeed came in like 3 kms which is nothing in terms of airspace violations, but it was just the fuel tanks they jettisoned to lose weight and gain speed on their runner.
> 
> However, no denying that there is a huge wankfest going on in media and they are winning the war of propaganda and narrative. This is something we have always been in shambles, the media war.


bro make up your mind … DG ispr said 4 miles that is about 5KM...……. and also keep in mind.....No war plan allowed near 10KM of LOC from both side...… so that mean 16KM violation without any response..

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## Wrath

mastaan said:


> and this area is where? in KPK or your side of kashmir?


A village which is divided equally on LoC . Only 3-4 km inside , that's where IAF jets dropped their fuel tanks. No 60 km deep incursion and no 300 made-up terrorists killed .

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## RPK

Windjammer said:


> The jettisoning of load was indeed to escape PAF interceptors. And all those confusing Balakot with Balakote, well see for yourselves, people in Balakot are busy voting in a local election.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


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## Maxpane

Fahad Bilal said:


> Sir maybe Army and IK are planning on playing it smart .


bhai its more about propaganda . if you act on time its not build high morale in forces but also build trust and morale of public and because of horrendous mistake even peoples morale is also down . People are losing confidence on armed forces. thats really important


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## ARMalik

CriticalThought said:


> I wanted it from your mouth so I can call out your misinformation. This is what DG ISPR actually said:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100251560985145346



CriticalThough, just one question, why could the PAF jets not allow IAF jets to fly further inside Pak territory, and then surround them and shoot them? Instead they choose to immediately confront the IAF jet when they were only 3 to 4 miles inside, which allowed these IAF to hastily retreat. But still gave india the Media victory and the whole world is calling Pak a terrorist heaven again.

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## RPK

Fahad Bilal said:


> A village which is divided equally on LoC . Only 3-4 km inside , that's where IAF jets dropped their fuel tanks. No 60 km deep incursion and no 300 made-up terrorists killed .




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


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## Wrath

Riz said:


> Some thing big about to happens... Stay tuned friends.. Modi is going to eat his shit.. Ball is now in our court... All eyes are on Pakistan now...


No. I don't think so Bhai . But I hope . Something big happens.


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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100360517758173184


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## Benign Persona

i am so fu**king pissed right now what we can do right now is to load a few jets and hit a few indian post across LOC and record them from gun camera and make it public. sooner or later we gonna fight india let it be today. F**k this development and economy and education and health and everything and accept that today we been humiliated and the only way to come out of this and look indians in the eyes is to respond. ab aur chawlain marnay say kaam nahi chaly ga bandy maar k dikhao.

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## Taimoor Khan

member.exe said:


> It is not 3-4 km. The ISPR tweet mentions Balakot, KPK
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377



its not balakot, its balakote, 3 kms from LOC. ISPR got this wrong.


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## niao78




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## Wrath

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100329652386652160
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100281853322371072


Oh mister , we have seen what kind of dumb-a$$ed journalists and media you guys possess .


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## Enigma SIG

Windjammer said:


> Let the Indians enjoy their minute of fame and then we will show them what is real glory.
> How do you think Indians will sleep after today....we could easily fire a weapon or two to hit Indian soil...but
> Revenge is a dish best served cold.


Agreed, but until a target is struck in India; Pakistan is on the defensive here to be brutally honest. What's stopping us from obliterating a CPRF barrack using standoff weapons, launched from multiple angles with a hit probability of 40%?


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## Wrath

cerberus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100239081236242433


This ma'am is saying like she saw the fighters .


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## Surenas

Taimoor Khan said:


> its not balakot, its balakote, 3 kms from LOC. ISPR got this wrong.



You are just too embarrassed to acknowledge that IAF has massively called Pakistan's bluff and humiliated your army and country in the meanwhile.

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## RPK

Taimoor Khan said:


> its not balakot, its balakote, 3 kms from LOC. ISPR got this wrong.


If it is wrong why tweet is not deleted

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## untitled

Taimoor Khan said:


> its not balakot, its balakote, 3 kms from LOC. ISPR got this wrong.



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/excl...mage-done-by-iaf-attack.604126/#post-11206341


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## Wrath

Frank Martin said:


>


Indian violation happened at 3-4 am . This tweet was posted well before incursion.


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## Indus Pakistan

CriticalThought said:


> I wanted it from your mouth so I can call out your misinformation. This is what DG ISPR actually said:


Please refer to tweets from DG ISPR. My 'misinformation' is based from what the DG ISPR stated. Please take it with him. He clearly states Balakot.

https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


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## IFB

Modiji will be expecting more terror attacks this close to election...if it happens and more indian blood is shed...this will greatly help him to win this election hands down...as he has proved he would do anything to please the masses this close to election...even not hesitating to cross LOC...even after mumbai con party did not do shit...so its big win for modi image...gives a feeling to the common man that at last a leadership that takes national security issues seriously...it has also given a lot of headache to people who actually control Pakistan...they have to respond somehow either by military or otherwise...whatever way they choose to respond the person benefiting the most will be mr modi.


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## Wrath

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100324629393092608


That's totally made up. Such things can happen on both sides , wait for the response


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## PDF

live now DG ISPR.


----------



## Death Adder

balixd said:


> we requested BBC Urdu correspondents to share a single evidence back their claims up.....no one has bother to reply yet. I have tagged Info Ministry to take care of these paid stooges....Pak did it's job, shared the evidence of area where the Fuel tanks dropped....that is a fact....what india says, what BBC reports, it doesn't worth a dime because it is all hearsay




Defence minister Khattak said they dropped “bomb”not fuel tank and our airforce was ready, but couldn’t take action because they failed to immediately assess the damage situation on ground due to dark.

PS..DG just confirmed they dropped bombs in Balakot KPK and Jabba.


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## Taimoor Khan

CHACHA"G" said:


> bro make up your mind … DG ispr said 4 miles that is about 5KM...……. and also keep in mind.....No war plan allowed near 10KM of LOC from both side...… so that mean 16KM violation without any response..




I am getting this info form PAF insiders. Its a mistake. Its BalakotE not balakot!!


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## Windjammer

Surenas said:


> They don't need to further embarrass the Pakistani government. The whole world is currently laughing at the official explanation of the Pakistani army regarding the event.


Yea, the world only knows Indians well from it's previous claims and achievements. 
In fact BBC gave India some healthy coverage on your spy Pigeon drama.


----------



## Amaa'n

Indus Pakistan said:


> Please refer to tweets from DG ISPR. My 'misinformation' is based from what the DG ISPR stated. Please take it with him. He clearly states Balakot.
> 
> https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


watch DG ISPR media conference live on TV...just because an 'e' is missing everyone is having a heartattack


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## CriticalThought

ARMalik said:


> CriticalThough, just one question, why could the PAF jets not allow IAF jets to fly further inside Pak territory, and then surround them and shoot them? Instead they choose to immediately confront the IAF jet when they were only 3 to 4 miles inside, which allowed these IAF to hastily retreat. But still gave india the Media victory and the whole world is calling Pak a terrorist heaven again.



Airforces don't fight to attain media objectives. They fight to obtain security objectives. Once an aircraft has intruded into your airspace at 3:00 A.M. in the morning, you cannot know its load out. Radars don't report that. You have no idea what that bogey might do. What if its mission was to only come inside a few miles, take an accurate shot, and scramble back? How would the guy performing the CAP, or the ground controller know this? By scrambling jets and immediately intercepting them, we did not give them the space to take an accurate shot. Had they successfully targeted some critical infrastructure, their media would still call it a success, even if they lost an aircraft.

Our problem is that we can't separate technical facts from rhetoric. We fall prey too easily to the enemy propaganda machine. Here are the facts broken down:

1. IAF attempt spoilt. Clear victory for PAF.
2. Pakistani soil targeted. Our sovereignty challenged.
3. Pakistani response? At a time and place of our choosing.

We need to wait for that response and call out the Indians for dishonest reporting. Why isn't Twitter laughing at this moment at Indian attempts to show JF-17 as Mirage-2000? Why aren't they laughing at the entirely unprofessional conduct of IAF pilot, who couldn't even drop his payload correctly? And above all, why isn't DG ISPR and Shah Mahmood Qureshi forcefully telling the whole world that there are no terror camps in Pakistan?? These are our real failures.

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## Taimoor Khan

Surenas said:


> You are just too embarrassed to acknowledge that IAF has massively called Pakistan's bluff and humiliated your army and country in the meanwhile.




We are calling it another Sir je kal drama but rest assured, this time, you wont be allowed to use it as brownie points for your domestic politics. The real strike is coming your way.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

balixd said:


> watch DG ISPR media conference live on TV...just because an 'e' is missing everyone is having a heartattack


 But we have this -



Areesh said:


> batrasi jungle mansehra district


 Which fits in with Balakot.


----------



## Areesh

Indus Pakistan said:


> Which fits in with Balakot.



Yes

Indians failed to execute their mission whatever it was. They took a pot shot most probably while in air of AJK and ran away. 

This is the situation.

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## H!TchHiker

Death Adder said:


> Defence minister Khattak said they dropped “bomb”not fuel tank and our airforce was ready, but couldn’t take action because they failed to immediately assess the damage situation on ground due to dark.


Lol seriously he said like this "PAF was contemplating what happened on the ground to retaliate of enemy jets entered into there airspace.".Nice response mechanism PAF has developed...Survey the areas , asses the damage and then act...LOL


----------



## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100372787213029376

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## CHACHA"G"

Death Adder said:


> Defence minister Khattak said they dropped “bomb”not fuel tank and our airforce was ready, but couldn’t take action because they failed to immediately assess the damage situation on ground due to dark.


LMAO...………… HAHAHAHAHA ………...LOL...………….. Its dark...……… 
What happened with 10 km no aircraft area on loc...……. violation of that area should be enough for PAF and Airdefence……. 
Now we will hear stories after stories...……. @Indus Pakistan



H!TchHiker said:


> Lol seriously he said like this "PAF was contemplating what happened on the ground to retaliate of enemy jets entered into there airspace.".Nice response mechanism PAF has developed...Survey the areas , asses the damage and then act...LOL


lol at PAF

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## ARMalik

CriticalThought said:


> Airforces don't fight to attain media objectives. They fight to obtain security objectives. Once an aircraft has intruded into your airspace at 3:00 A.M. in the morning, you cannot know its load out. Radars don't report that. You have no idea what that bogey might do. What if its mission was to only come inside a few miles, take an accurate shot, and scramble back? How would the guy performing the CAP, or the ground controller know this? By scrambling jets and immediately intercepting them, we did not give them the space to take an accurate shot. Had they successfully targeted some critical infrastructure, their media would still call it a success, even if they lost an aircraft.
> 
> Our problem is that we can't separate technical facts from rhetoric. We fall prey too easily to the enemy propaganda machine. Here are the facts broken down:
> 
> 1. IAF attempt spoilt. Clear victory for PAF.
> 2. Pakistani soil targeted. Our sovereignty challenged.
> 3. Pakistani response? At a time and place of our choosing.
> 
> We need to wait for that response and call out the Indians for dishonest reporting. Why isn't Twitter laughing at this moment at Indian attempts to show JF-17 as Mirage-2000? Why aren't they laughing at the entirely unprofessional conduct of IAF pilot, who couldn't even drop his payload correctly? And above all, why isn't DG ISPR and Shah Mahmood Qureshi forcefully telling the whole world that there are no terror camps in Pakistan?? These are our real failures.



Good response. One of the other aspect we need to ponder, why could the Pak AWACS not pick up these IAF jets well before the entered Pakistan airspace? I think the reason these AWACS could not do this is because *India has managed to find a weakness in Pakistan's AD layers*. This is just my personal opinion.


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## H!TchHiker

CHACHA"G" said:


> LMAO...………… HAHAHAHAHA ………...LOL...………….. Its dark...………
> What happened with 10 km no aircraft area on loc...……. violation of that area should be enough for PAF and Airdefence…….
> Now we will hear stories after stories...……. @Indus Pakistan
> 
> 
> lol at PAF


Lol ha shukar ha we don't have PAF mentality in PA and they don't follow this "Asses the damage, survey the area and ask PM permission ...Right or wrong they are always one step ahead..Look at PAF pathetic track record from Kargil to Salala then Abattabad and now this...PAF is good in making shows and models

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## CHACHA"G"

DG-ISPR said 4 bombs ………………………… and 4 to 5 N-mile...………………… lol
*So They came inside Pakistan...….. They did bomb...…. and they did went back...…………………………………………………………………………………………………
And bomb drop in KPK...………………. now can some one please do the math..... 
LOL on PAF...…….. LOL on Airdefence …………. LOL on all of us.....*

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## Roybot

At Pakistanis trying to save face!

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## PDF

Bombs dropped in Balakot, KPK confirmed.

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## Dr. Strangelove

M.Musa said:


> Bombs dropped in Balakot, KPK confirmed.


stand off weapons


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## H!TchHiker

CHACHA"G" said:


> DG-ISPR said 4 bombs ………………………… and 4 to 5 N-mile...………………… lol
> *So They came inside Pakistan...….. They did bomb...…. and they did went back...…………………………………………………………………………………………………*


Yar bomb he gira ka gay ha....konsa bada masla ha...This is new Bajwa doctrine I believe or PAF is achieving new glory...This is shameful PAF chief should response how come enemy planes enter to Balkot, KP....Really PAF is just fancy show piece collection unit


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## PDF

"The response will come", DG ISPR


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## Roybot

More, than 100 terrorists vaporized.

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## SABRE

NATIONAL COMMAND AUTHORITY meeting called.

Babur or Ra'ad might be under preparation.


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## Maxpane

B C zalil gi ho gaye hain .


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## PDF

Dr. Strangelove said:


> stand off weapons


We are serious to respond. I was not expecting that we will. Now, I am sure that we will hit them.

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## CHACHA"G"

H!TchHiker said:


> Yar bomb he gira ka gay ha....konsa bada masla ha...This is new Bajwa doctrine I believe or PAF is achieving new glory...This is shameful PAF chief should response how come enemy planes enter to Balkot, KP....Really PAF is just fancy show piece collection unit


Yes they already did...….. According to ISPR PAF denied IAF Pakistan air space..... But IAF still manage to hit KPK ………..LMAO...………………..
LOL am I gone that MAD...…………… LMAO

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## Indus Pakistan

CHACHA"G" said:


> LMAO...………… HAHAHAHAHA ………...LOL...………….. Its dark...………
> What happened with 10 km no aircraft area on loc...……. violation of that area should be enough for PAF and Airdefence…….
> Now we will hear stories after stories...……. @Indus Pakistan
> 
> 
> lol at PAF


They are gonna make excuses and their fanbboi's will lap them up. We saw that during OBL raid. We saw that in Kargil. Nothing will change because when you cover up you never learn and never fix the problems.

We have -


DG ISPR state clearly it was Balakot. 

We have had reports from Mansehra, which is in K-Pk and adjacent to Balakot, Kp-K.

All these 'threads' conjoined confirm it was Balakot, K-Pk. Now 'eees' are going to be suffixed and truth will be blended.




Devil Soul said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100372787213029376

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## H!TchHiker

CHACHA"G" said:


> DG-ISPR said 4 bombs ………………………… and 4 to 5 N-mile...………………… lol
> *So They came inside Pakistan...….. They did bomb...…. and they did went back...…………………………………………………………………………………………………
> And bomb drop in KPK...………………. now can some one please do the math.....
> LOL on PAF...…….. LOL on Airdefence …………. LOL on all of us.....*


Bhai PAF chief ki permission nai the....He was sleeping at that time ...Have logic ab raaat ka 3 bajy kon attack krta ha....What a shame this PAF has brought to this nation..


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## Indus Pakistan

M.Musa said:


> We are serious to respond. I was not expecting that we will. Now, I am sure that we will hit them.


That is the only option left. Or PAF should commit hara kiri in public.

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## Menace2Society

M.Musa said:


> We are serious to respond. I was not expecting that we will. Now, I am sure that we will hit them.



Could have all been avoided had you intercepted enemy jets. Now you will go into war to regain dignity.


----------



## Maxpane

@MastanKhan sir your every single view about Paf was right and is right


----------



## Roybot

SABRE said:


> NATIONAL COMMAND AUTHORITY meeting called.
> 
> Babur or Ra'ad might be under preparation.

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## Death Adder

H!TchHiker said:


> Lol seriously he said like this "PAF was contemplating what happened on the ground to retaliate of enemy jets entered into there airspace.".Nice response mechanism PAF has developed...Survey the areas , asses the damage and then act...LOL



Yeah man that’s exactly what he said.


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## Maxpane

never ever again say that sleep tight .......


----------



## Amaa'n

there were threat on three sectors, Sialkot, Bawalpur & AJK / LOC.....CAP was carried out and PAF chased down the intruders efficiently


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## Roybot

I hope @Umair Nawaz is safe, he was in Balakot on Sunday!

@Levina

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## Indus Pakistan

Clarification: This was not some great military success by India. It was nothing. But given nukes the war betwen India and Pakistan is now more in the realm of propaganda. India has clearly won by pulling tis stunt. Now Pakistan has to do something that can be leveraged as a 'slap' on face of Modi.

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## Areesh

Roybot said:


>



Got picture of dead body any of those 300 militants you killed??

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## Roybot

balixd said:


> there were threat on three sectors, Sialkot, Bawalpur & AJK / LOC.....CAP was carried out and PAF chased down the intruders efficiently



IAF intruded, completed its mission, and came back safely. How exactly was the CAP efficient? IAF fighters were meant to come back in a haste anyways, they weren't on a Kamikaze mission

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## CHACHA"G"

*LMAO......have you guys watch and listen the answer of DG-ISPR on "why PAF did not shoot down indan aircraft"...……………..
LOL
AS I said ……….. now we will hear stories after stories...………………
But we will not hear the truth ……..
And truth is 

Our ops on front line post on LOC failed
Our Air defence (SAMs , Radars , Awacs ) failed 
Our PAF failed …………………. 
We are not able to do any thing to their aircrafts …….. *

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## Areesh

Indus Pakistan said:


> Clarification: This was not some great military success by India. It was nothing. But given nukes the war betwen India and Pakistan is now more in the realm of propaganda. India has clearly won by pulling tis stunt. Now Pakistan has to do something that can be leveraged as a 'slap' on face of Modi.



That I was saying since morning. We are unnecessary criticizing PAF. I am not a big fan of PAF. I criticize military when needed

But in today's situation our military did a good job. Indians whatever there mission was a massive failure. Or if their mission was to take a random pot shot then it is a success for sure.

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## ARMalik

Oh God, this is getting embarrassing by the minute. What a F*ing disaster thanks to PAF. Today PAF should hang its head in shame, and if at all possible, drown this Air Chief in a gutter.


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## Roybot

Areesh said:


> Got picture of dead body any of those 300 militants you killed??


All in good time, first let your ISPR weave as many stories as they like to save face. We will then make Bhagdad bob out of your DG ISPR

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## H!TchHiker

CHACHA"G" said:


> *LMAO......have you guys watch and listen the answer of DG-ISPR on "why PAF did not shoot down indan aircraft"...……………..
> LOL
> AS I said ……….. now we will hear stories after stories...………………
> But we will not hear the truth ……..
> And truth is
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Our ops on front line post on LOC failed
> 
> Our Air defence (SAMs , Radars , Awacs ) failed
> 
> Our PAF failed ………………….
> *
> *We are not able to do any thing to their aircrafts …….. *


How he spin that ? Lol I didn't listen that...

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## graphican

Roybot said:


> At Pakistanis trying to save face!



LOL at you thinking PAF is now trying... International Media is being taken to the spot where you destroyed 300 people. They will witness what IAF actually tried.


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## H!TchHiker

ARMalik said:


> Oh God, this is getting embarrassing by the minute. What a F*ing disaster thanks to PAF. Today PAF should hang its head in shame, and if at all possible, drown this Air Chief in a gutter.


Don't worry PAF is BUSY making PIA on its way to glory....They have no capacity to fight in night...lol...PAF chief day and night was boosting "we are ready"...Don't dare bla bla

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## Amaa'n

Roybot said:


> IAF intruded, completed its mission, and came back safely. How exactly was the CAP efficient? IAF fighters were meant to come back in a haste anyways, they weren't on a Kamikaze mission


if dropping fuel tanks was mission than indeed it was succeful, i have yet to see any evidence of refuting Pakistani claims.....we have shared images & footage of the area that was 'HIT' by the bombs.....what India has to show....

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## CHACHA"G"

H!TchHiker said:


> How he spin that ? Lol I didn't listen that...


watch later and enjoy ……… Story after story……..and I am afraid of negative rating .


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## Death Adder

We don’t have to put blame entirely on PAF, what’s shocking is that there are no A2G assets are placed alongside LoC by DHA mafia.


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## Roybot

balixd said:


> if dropping fuel tanks was mission than indeed it was succeful, i have yet to see any evidence of refuting Pakistani claims.....we have shared images & footage of the area that was 'HIT' by the bombs.....what India has to show....



Are you still sticking with the "dropped fuel tank" story?

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## CHACHA"G"

balixd said:


> if dropping fuel tanks was mission than indeed it was succeful, i have yet to see any evidence of refuting Pakistani claims.....we have shared images & footage of the area that was 'HIT' by the bombs.....what India has to show....


Sir G dg-ispr said 4 bombs …….. KPK ,,,,,,,,,,, and in the end he also talked about madrasa … 
And I am still thinking why DG-ISPR talked about madrasa!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Roybot

graphican said:


> LOL at you thinking PAF is now trying... International Media is being taken to the spot where you destroyed 300 people. They will witness what IAF actually tried.



 What after 24 hours? After the cleanup?


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## ghazi52

Indian Air Force just invaded Pakistani air space, dropping 1,000 kg of tomatoes onto a forest. More updates soon.


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## CriticalThought

Indus Pakistan said:


> Please refer to tweets from DG ISPR. My 'misinformation' is based from what the DG ISPR stated. Please take it with him. He clearly states Balakot.
> 
> https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author



There is the physical intrusion of the aircraft, and the trajectory of a glide bomb dictated by the laws of physics. Once released, no airforce in the world can stop a glide bomb from following the laws of physics. It took the natural course that it took.


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## Indus Pakistan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100306954914840576More evidence it was in Mansehera district, K-Pk.

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## Amaa'n

Roybot said:


> Are you still sticking with the "dropped fuel tank" story?


i hope you can read the word bomb in my last line....


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## Zhukov

Benign Persona said:


> i am so fu**king pissed right now what we can do right now is to load a few jets and hit a few indian post across LOC and record them from gun camera and make it public. sooner or later we gonna fight india let it be today. F**k this development and economy and education and health and everything and accept that today we been humiliated and the only way to come out of this and look indians in the eyes is to respond. ab aur chawlain marnay say kaam nahi chaly ga bandy maar k dikhao.


Did you even see Quality Developement, Economy, Education and Health in our Pakistan in first place before you decided to **** them all?
Lolz are you even seeing our country getting on track to achieve Good Development, Economy, Education and Health.

State ke Law ka Ehtaraam to itna hai ke Signal par Bina Police ya Traffic ke Rukna tak nahi chahtey hum aur Itni Ana State ke honour ke liey. Calm down bhai. We are not France or China.

Weak economy, Weak National Ethics, Bad Foreign Policy, Yehi kuch hota hai.
Teer Talwaar wali Jangen nai hotin ab

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Army research

If we could prevent the


Republic said:


> Great calling to your PM while cooling your @$$ off in England. If you have so much itch to revenge, why not come to pakistan and join Masood Azhar ???


I'm coming back in June, only here for 2 years but ok


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## Areesh

Roybot said:


> All in good time, first let your ISPR weave as many stories as they like to save face. We will then make Bhagdad bob our our DG ISPR



Make bhaghdad bob??

How? By destroying random trees?


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## Great Janjua

Roybot said:


> Are you still sticking with the "dropped fuel tank" story?


If a bomb were to be dropped it would have caused a much bigger crater a fuel tank on the other hand can create an explosion but it is way less powerful than a bomb being dropped and from the video it seems to me that the damage caused was absolutely due to fuel tanks


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## jzeebravo

By now any professional airforce would have released the footage of such an assault to back up their claim, given the public pressure that was created by their own doing or perhaps we might still have to wait for them as we still have been for the fake surgical strikes 1.0

Most importantly, people who are questioning PAF's response are mostly doing that out of utter ignorance. There is an agreement between the two countries that no fixed-wing aircraft can come within 10-kms of LoC, that is a redline and PAF can only scramble its jets once that's breached. Given the response time of a few minutes, it's not at all surprising that Indian jets intruded a few kms inside AJK, as fighter jets cover miles within a minute, a d returned back to their bases once Indian radars detected Pakistani jets in motion.

The question here is now, by dropping the payload, India has to prove that they hit legit targets and not just dropped their wieght at some random place and claiming it as a big hit. They failed to provide any evidence in 2016 and that would be the question again this time around. 

Right now Indian government is only playing to the gallery with the help of their jingoistic media and once the usual chest-thumping dies down, serious questions will be asked. To avoid that later situation, they have intelligently cultivated a situation to extract a retaliation from Pakistan, DG ISPR's hasty initial press conference helped this Indian ploy and he needs to be shown the door for making that mistake.

Lastly, I am among the minority who voted against retaliating, as it would help us fall into the Indian ploy and I believe PAF's response was spot on and they responded well. As for intrusion, just to give an analogy, even Pakistani helicopters intruded into Indian airspace twice in 2018 alone so things need to be taken into their perspective and we shouldn't get all haywire just because the enemy claims something which THEY have to prove.

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## CriticalThought

ARMalik said:


> Good response. One of the other aspect we need to ponder, why could the Pak AWACS not pick up these IAF jets well before the entered Pakistan airspace? I think the reason these AWACS could not do this is because *India has managed to find a weakness in Pakistan's AD layers*. This is just my personal opinion.



DG ISPR just said in his press conference that radars picked up the incursion. By the time our third CAP responded, they were able to stay in and get out in a matter of 3-4 mins (if I remember correctly). They haven't found any weakness, Alhamdulillah.



CHACHA"G" said:


> DG-ISPR said 4 bombs ………………………… and 4 to 5 N-mile...………………… lol
> *So They came inside Pakistan...….. They did bomb...…. and they did went back...…………………………………………………………………………………………………
> And bomb drop in KPK...………………. now can some one please do the math.....
> LOL on PAF...…….. LOL on Airdefence …………. LOL on all of us.....*



LOL on you for not understanding how glide bombs work and what is their typical range.

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## PDF

Menace2Society said:


> Could have all been avoided had you intercepted enemy jets. Now you will go into war to regain dignity.





Indus Pakistan said:


> That is the only option left. Or PAF should commit hara kiri in public.


Our response by PAF was fine. F-16s were already deployed for possible interception after the start of tensions. PAF averted any further violation. I am wondering what will be approved during NCA meeting tomorrow. Let's wait...

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## ZAC1

We prevented three teams of Iaf to enter in our airspace...PAF Zindabad

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## Roybot

Great Janjua said:


> If a bomb were to be dropped it would have caused a much bigger crater a fuel tank on the other hand can create an explosion but it is way less powerful than a bomb being dropped and from the video it seems to me that the damage caused was absolutely due to fuel tanks



And do you really expect your military to show you the actual damage, and which in turn would expose their impotence?  Use your brain ffs.


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## CHACHA"G"

For me more worry part is ,,,,,, India tried violation on 3 places PAF able to meet them on 2 and from 3rd they(IAF) did what they did...………. 
So not having enough plan hurting us...………………………………….. PAF showed limitation...……
Now imagine if IAF attack Pakistan from 15 places ……… Then what will happen...………..


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## Indus Pakistan

M.Musa said:


> Our response by PAF was fine. F-16s were already deployed for possible interception after the start of tensions. PAF averted any further violation. I am wondering what will be approved during NCA meeting tomorrow. Let's wait...


AS I said. From military point of view this is nothing. But it gives the 'smoking gun' to Indian's and Modi to start swinging on the trees. In age of nukes war is not option. But this is all about image and propaganda. The ball is in Pakistan's court to give a 'slap to Indians'.

Even if they threw a tomatoe in Pakistan they can now use that to build a narrative and guaranteed a Bolly movie - although frankly Bolly can make anything out of delusions.

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## CHACHA"G"

CriticalThought said:


> LOL on you for not understanding how glide bombs work and what is their typical range.


yes lol on me ,,,,,,,,,, lol on me when I thought PAF will defend every inch of Pakistan air space.... after all they are defensive force... ,,,,,,, and here IAF cam 4 to 5 N-Miles in side Pakistan...…… LOL on me who thought Our Air defence will shoot down any intruder..... but here they all went back...………… lol on me...………..


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## Count Dracula

On light of the acknowledgement of the event by ISPR can we take a good look at senior member like @Windjammer , who has been blindsiding everyone with his whattaboutery, particularly his own people. Apparently he is expert. He is obviously too old to be a fanboy, so are people like him on the payroll to defend some parties on public forums like this. Nothing wrong with it. Its just raises a few questions. since morning he has been deflecting each points made by other members, be it Indian or Pakistani. Its a good thing to represent, side with your forces on wherever possible, thats a given. but what if he were successful today in dismantling today's narrative. If there were no ISPR briefing this evening, and say people like him drowned the incident by downplaying, most pakistanis wouldnt know about such situations or error made, at least ones coming to pdf. Then how would you course correct? It would be great for the said institution if its follies never reached public, no? For any institution self chk is necessary once in a while. Support your own by all means,But dont be a detriment to them by your blind devotion.

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## ZAC1

Indus Pakistan said:


> AS I said. From military point of view this is nothing. But it gives the 'smoking gun' to Indian's and Modi to start swinging on the trees. In age of nukes war is not option. But this is all about image and propaganda. The ball is in Pakistan's court to give a 'slap to Indians'.


Army always give a quick reply...n its in 24 hours always...so aj rat expected hai kuch


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## ghazi52

There were 200 terrorists hanging upside down the trees, they all were taken along by IAF, so no one can catch them.

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## PDF

Indus Pakistan said:


> AS I said. From military point of view this is nothing. But it gives the 'smoking gun' to Indian's and Modi to start swinging on the trees. In age of nukes war is not option. But this is all about image and propaganda. The ball is in Pakistan's court to give a 'slap to Indians'.


Listening to DG ISPR, I am certain we will retaliate. I did not believe it until now._ We won't slap, we will spank them and spank them hard._ For now, we should control our emotions and let the Indians enjoy while they can.

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## Reichsmarschall

Chhatrapati said:


> While we shake in our boots. Enjoy a demonstrative clip


Abey randway go to YouTube type "Pakistan airforce Islamabad night fly" 
Watch the first video check it's date of upload come back here again and delete the rant you just posted would save you from alot of embarrassment


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## CriticalThought

CHACHA"G" said:


> For me more worry part is ,,,,,, India tried violation on 3 places PAF able to meet them on 2 and from 3rd they(IAF) did what they did...……….
> So not having enough plan hurting us...………………………………….. PAF showed limitation...……
> Now imagine if IAF attack Pakistan from 15 places ……… Then what will happen...………..



Things would be different in times of war. PAF would have the initiative in that case, Insha Allah.


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## Indus Pakistan

Watch how now Indians come up with some catchy name for this tomatoe event and then open a Wiki page detailing the drama of how IAF went in and destroyed terror factory in Pakistan where world notorious terrorist figure was hiding etc.

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## Areesh

Roybot said:


> And do you really expect your military to show you the actual damage, and which in turn would expose their impotence?  Use your brain ffs.



There are locals who are putting videos of the "hit site". BBC an reuters are reporting from the hit site. We can see the damage or lack of damage IAF has done.

What exactly do you have? Other than bragging like idiots till next whining moment would dawn upon you guys

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## ARMalik

M.Musa said:


> Listening to DG ISPR, I am certain we will retaliate. I did not believe it until now._ We won't slap, we will spank them and spank them hard._ For now, we should control our emotions and let the Indians enjoy while they can.



I hope whatever happens, it is well executed, and PAF is not flying into a trap. I have a feeling that Israeli's are helping out the Indians. It is a classic strategy of Israeli AF to set traps.

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## Great Janjua

Roybot said:


> And do you really expect your military to show you the actual damage, and which in turn would expose their impotence?  Use your brain ffs.


The video was taken by locals rather than challenging my competence have a talk to yourself stupid mong


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## Indus Pakistan

But fact is PAF gave India this 'tomatoe' drama. If it had shot one of the intruders then Pakistan would have scored a mounumental propaganda coup. But alas our flyboi's were have a snooze ...


@MastanKhan

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## CHACHA"G"

CriticalThought said:


> Things would be different in times of war. PAF would have the initiative in that case, Insha Allah.


We are on RED alert in in war we will be on RED alert...…….. After what happened today , I have zero hope ………. 
This hurts but this is the reality ……..


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## ghazi52



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## PDF

Indus Pakistan said:


> Watch how now Indians come up with some catchy name for this tomatoe event and then open a Wiki page detailing the drama of how IAF went in and destroyed terror factory in Pakistan where world notorious terrorist figure was hiding etc.


I thought this is sequel to URI. They won't just make a wiki page, they are on a whole next level. They might just abandon producing films and start making drama on this.


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## Pinnacle

@MastanKhan Sir where are you? I am so sorry for not believing you before about PAF

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## untitled

Indus Pakistan said:


> Watch how now Indians come up with some catchy name for this tomatoe


They can do as they please. They have thrown the gauntlet


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## SorryNotSorry

Is it true the internet was shut down in the affected areas?


ghazi52 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


How exactly did the PAF successfully deny IAF? Our jets reached KPK, dropped bombs and went back.


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## Windjammer

Count Dracula said:


> On light of the acknowledgement of the event by ISPR can we take a good look at senior member like @Windjammer , who has been blindsiding everyone with his whattaboutery, particularly his own people. Apparently he is expert. He is obviously too old to be a fanboy, so are people like him on the payroll to defend some parties on public forums like this. Nothing wrong with it. Its just raises a few questions. since morning he has been deflecting each points made by other members, be it Indian or Pakistani. Its a good thing to represent, side with your forces on wherever possible, thats a given. but what if he were successful today in dismantling today's narrative. If there were no ISPR briefing this evening, and say people like him drowned the incident by downplaying, most pakistanis wouldnt know about such situations or error made, at least ones coming to pdf. Then how would you course correct? It would be great for the said institution if its follies never reached public, no? For any institution self chk is necessary once in a while. Support your own by all means,But dont be a detriment to them by your blind devotion.


All said and done, this is how the gullible Indian public is taken for a ride by your own media....now ask anyone about the claimed IAF Mirages in the video and you will get your answer.





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## PDF

ARMalik said:


> I hope whatever happens, it is well executed, and PAF is not flying into a trap. I have a feeling that Israeli's are helping out the Indians. It is a classic strategy of Israeli AF to set traps.


Who said we will retaliate by AF. We might but we have other options in mind as well.

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## Indus Pakistan

M.Musa said:


> Listening to DG ISPR, I am certain we will retaliate. I did not believe it until now._ We won't slap, we will spank them and spank them hard._ For now, we should control our emotions and let the Indians enjoy while they can.


Agreed. Indian's are overbloated, puffed up creatures at best of time. Now they are going to be jumping up and down. We need to spank them and cool them down in the Ganga ....

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## Windjammer



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## Indus Pakistan

M.Musa said:


> Who said we will retaliate by AF. We might but we have other options in mind as well.


I agree. Most likely army ...

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## untitled

The press conference did not respond to the Indian claim of shooting of a Pakistani drone


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## ghazi52

ABP News never misses a chance to mock itself.
This is an Old footage from 2016 filmed in Pakistan’s capital city Islamabad.

Indians are celebrating over this video.Retards for a reason






__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## H!TchHiker

Indus Pakistan said:


> Watch how now Indians come up with some catchy name for this tomatoe event and then open a Wiki page detailing the drama of how IAF went in and destroyed terror factory in Pakistan where world notorious terrorist figure was hiding etc.


You are right...Credit goes to PAF....I pray PA doesn't have mentality followed by PAF..Once again its upto Army now....Indian just needs a mole to make a mountain...Right or wrong Army has guts to take on...

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## Areesh

SorryNotSorry said:


> Is it true the internet was shut down in the affected areas?



Nope



> How exactly did the PAF successfully deny IAF? Our jets reached KPK, dropped bombs and went back.



You didn't reach balakot. You made an incursion of 4-5 miles, took a pot shot and ran away



45'22' said:


> Pakistan neither has the power nor the courage to do so....It's high time the civilian population of Pakistan realizes that....The only thing they are capable of is terrorism hence the doctrine of bleed India by thousand cuts



Really??

IS that why you keep on losing Indian soldiers at LOC? 

It is funny after so many dead bodies you bharatis still have the gall to make such tall claims.

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## graphican

Roybot said:


> What after 24 hours? After the cleanup?



Only your imagination will be cleaned up. Craters and burns stay but don't worry... we are not doing it for you. International audience is thankfully not born Indian.

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## ghazi52

جہاز آئے۔۔۔ بلاکوٹ سے واپس جانے سے پہلے، 1000 کلوگرام بارودی مواد پھینکا۔۔ اور رات کی تاریکی میں 300 سے زائد افرراد کی لاشیں بھی گِن لیں؟؟
دیو اے مذاق ہے؟؟؟؟

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## 45'22'

45'22' said:


> Pakistan neither has the power nor the courage to do so....It's high time the civilian population of Pakistan realizes that....The only thing they are capable of is terrorism hence the doctrine of bleed India by thousand cuts


Negative rated @balixd lol 
If only you could have countered with an argument but never mind



Areesh said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't reach balakot. You made an incursion of 4-5 miles, took a pot shot and ran away
> 
> 
> 
> Really??
> 
> IS that why you keep on losing Indian soldiers at LOC?
> 
> It is funny after so many dead bodies you bharatis still have the gall to make such tall claims.


Attacking soldiers when they are sleeping...You call that bravery ...
I expect better of Pakistani Army

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## ARMalik

Indus Pakistan said:


> I agree. Most likely army ...



Pakistan army is the only military arm capable of striking whenever and wherever, and also unfortunately has every now and then, clean-up the mess created by PAF.

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## SorryNotSorry

Areesh said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't reach balakot. You made an incursion of 4-5 miles, took a pot shot and ran away
> 
> 
> 
> Really??
> 
> IS that why you keep on losing Indian soldiers at LOC?
> 
> It is funny after so many dead bodies you bharatis still have the gall to make such tall claims.


DG ISPR said 4 bombs were dropped. The pictures they posted don’t look like bomb craters. 
I believe DG ISPR is saving face. Of course, you’re free to disagree.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

45'22' said:


> Negative rated @balixd lol
> If only you could have countered with an argument but never mind
> 
> 
> Attacking soldiers when they are sleeping...You call that bravery ...
> I expect better of Pakistani Army



Good action by mods. Stop trolling here.


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## Areesh

45'22' said:


> Attacking soldiers when they are sleeping...You call that bravery ...
> I expect better of Pakistani Army



Well we have killed them all means possible. Snipers, rockets, ambushes etc etc

What more do you bharatis need? Or you bharatis are shameless enough to feel good on anything when it comes to Pakistan?

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## Indus Pakistan

45'22' said:


> Pakistan neither has the power nor the courage to do so....It's high time the civilian population of Pakistan realizes that....The only thing they are capable of is terrorism hence the doctrine of bleed India by thousand cuts


Sorry. I am not a fanboi. I am not a cheerleader. And neither do I follow the herd. I am critical of everything. Pakistan has too much courage relative to it's size. It is India that has no courage. For a nation like India - nearly 7 times more populous after decades of provocation you should have downsized Pakistan. And crippled it.

But you have not. Pakistan in 2019 is as bold as it ever was. This event was not a military victory that chastised Pakistan. It was simply a propaganda coup. I am annoyed at PAF for having given this PR coup to India. In the substance Indis did nothing. Pak will keep fcuking the huge elephant and besides postiring or croaking in pain the elephant will do nothing.

The reason is the Hindu mind after a thousand years of fcuking has not fight in it. Besides a few Sikhs and minority other hroups most of India is men dressed in Sari's. She men. That is why a country of 200 million can even face off a county of 1.4 billion. She got too many pussies .....

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## ghazi52

*Dennis Spy Tomato*‏Verified account @DennisCricket_

I'm holding a memorial for the 10 brave fallen trees

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## ranjeet

Roybot said:


> I hope @Umair Nawaz is safe, he was in Balakot on Sunday!
> 
> @Levina


I hope he was out of the 600 km angle of attack


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## Benign Persona

Roybot said:


> And do you really expect your military to show you the actual damage, and which in turn would expose their impotence?  Use your brain ffs.


why dont show some proofs and embarrass us even more if no videos or images atleast share the coordinates which you bomb we we should collect the bodies.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

SorryNotSorry said:


> DG ISPR said 4 bombs were dropped. The pictures they posted don’t look like bomb craters.
> I believe DG ISPR is saving face. Of course, you’re free to disagree.



Believe what you wish. Without proof, don’t expect us to believe it.

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## monitor

Areesh said:


> Here you go
> 
> View attachment 541896


Its two balakot which one is hit by claimed by IAF ?


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## H!TchHiker

SABRE said:


> NATIONAL COMMAND AUTHORITY meeting called.
> 
> Babur or Ra'ad might be under preparation.


Leave it janab...IK said we won't think......and we PAF took this thinking to whole new Level


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## Amaa'n

45'22' said:


> Negative rated @balixd lol
> If only you could have countered with an argument but never mind
> 
> 
> Attacking soldiers when they are sleeping...You call that bravery ...
> I expect better of Pakistani Army


you can see I never rated anyone on this thread with red, you called out my country, calling the entire country powerless.....that meets the criteria for rating any post as negative.....and i do not like to see such posts.....i can counter something only when there is something to counter.....there was nothing in your post but usual trolling and rant.....

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## Areesh

SorryNotSorry said:


> DG ISPR said 4 bombs were dropped. The pictures they posted don’t look like bomb craters.
> I believe DG ISPR is saving face. Of course, you’re free to disagree.



Then show us the pictures or something that would prove we are wrong.

Anything???


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## ghazi52

Wild speculation on social media that IAF crossed into Pakistan to hit Balakote in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. FYI, there is a Bala Kot across from Poonch. In fact it is a divided village on the LoC.


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## 45'22'

balixd said:


> you can see I never rated anyone on this thread with red, you called out my country, calling the entire country powerless.....that meets the criteria for rating any post as negative.....and i do not like to see such posts.....i can counter something only when there is something to counter.....there was nothing in your post but usual trolling and rant.....


I didn't call your country powerless ,I said it doesn't have the power to hit India....
There is a difference between the 2.


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## Areesh

45'22' said:


> We don't kill civilians ,we don't kill when you are soldiers are sleeping....
> As a Pakistani,you won't understand that



We also don't kill civilians. We kill your soldiers

You won't understand it


----------



## PDF

monitor said:


> Its two balakot which one is hit by claimed by IAF ?


KPK.


----------



## Areesh

monitor said:


> Its two balakot which one is hit by claimed by IAF ?



KPK one

Bombs were fired from AJK territory near LOC


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## ghazi52

a divided village on the LoC.


----------



## 45'22'

Indus Pakistan said:


> Sorry. I am not a fanboi. I am not a cheerleader. And neither do I follow the herd. I am critical of everything. Pakistan has too much courage relative to it's size. It is India that has no courage. For a nation like India - nearly 7 times more populous after decades of provocation you should have downsized Pakistan. And crippled it.
> 
> But you have not. Pakistan in 2019 is as bold as it ever was. This event was not a military victory that chastised Pakistan. It was simply a propaganda coup. I am annoyed at PAF for having given this PR coup to India. In the substance Indis did nothing. Pak will keep fcuking the huge elephant and besides postiring or croaking in pain the elephant will do nothing.
> 
> The reason is the Hindu mind after a thousand years of fcuking has not fight in it. Besides a few Sikhs and minority other hroups most of India is men dressed in Sari's. She men. That is why a country of 200 million can even face off a county of 1.4 billion. She got too many pussies .....


India has maintained restraint over the years,you call that cowardice. Recent incursion should have made you change your mind but you will stay in denial ,won't you?


----------



## Amaa'n

Roybot said:


> And do you really expect your military to show you the actual damage, and which in turn would expose their impotence?  Use your brain ffs.


social media is very active in Pakistan, am sure you are ware of this fact.....videos and pictures would be all over the internet by now, no need for Military to take Journos to the area.....


----------



## PDF

SorryNotSorry said:


> DG ISPR said 4 bombs were dropped. The pictures they posted don’t look like bomb craters.
> I believe DG ISPR is saving face. Of course, you’re free to disagree.


What about your claims. No video footage, no proof of casualties. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100383419622666240


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## ARMalik

45'22' said:


> Negative rated @balixd
> 
> Attacking soldiers when they are sleeping...You call that bravery ...
> I expect better of Pakistani Army



What do you want, a Fu*king *phone call *to wake-up your drunk soldiers!! It is a war not a *freaking wedding*.


----------



## Areesh

45'22' said:


> The terrorists that your govt fails to acknowledge ,who are easily roaming here and there in the outskirts of your city make blasts in civilian areas ....
> You can claim to be innocent but you aren't .



We don't support any terrorist. Don't give this cr@p here.


----------



## monitor

World News
February 26, 2019 / 4:20 PM / Updated 3 hours ago
*Pakistani villagers shaken awake as Indian warplanes drop bombs near madrasa*

Abu Arqam Naqash, Asif Shahzad
3 Min Read


BALAKOT, Pakistan (Reuters) - Villagers near the town of Balakot in northeast Pakistan were shaken out of their sleep by what seemed like an earthquake in the early hours of Tuesday, only discovering once dawn broke that there had been an Indian airstrike on their neighborhood.


General view of a site after the Indian military aircrafts released payload in Balakot, Pakistan February 26, 2019. Inter Service Public Relation (ISPR)/Handout via REUTERS.
Indian officials said the raid destroyed a training camp of Jaish-e- Mohammed, the militant group behind a suicide attack in Indian-controlled Kashmir that killed 40 members of a paramilitary police force on Feb. 14. India’s foreign secretary said “a very large number of JEM terrorists” had been eliminated in what was the first Indian air strike on Pakistani territory since 1971.

The villagers, however, said only one person was wounded in the attack and they knew of no fatalities.


*A resident, who did not want to give his name, said there was a nearby madrasa run by Jaish, though most villagers were guarded talking about their militant neighbors. 

“There is this madrasa on the hilltop. The Jaish-e-Mohammed runs it,” he said. *

Another person, who also declined to give his name said the militants had had a presence in the area for years.


“I belong to that area. I know for sure that there has been a training camp. It used to be there. I know Jaish people ran it,” he said.

“This camp was turned into a madrasa several years ago, but no one would still be allowed to get close to this infrastructure. There are scores of students in the madrasa at any given time,” he said.

Set in a wooded, hilly area in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province on the way to the scenic Kaghan valley, some 40 kilometers from the de facto border with India, Balakot was of many towns that was devastated by as massive earthquake in 2005.

From what villagers could see, the Indian attack had missed its target as the bombs dropped exploded about a kilometer away from the madrasa.


India confirms air strikes inside Pakistan
Mohammad Ajmal, a 25 year-old villager near Jaba Top, where the attack took place, said *he had heard four loud bangs* in succession just before 3.00 a.m. (2200 GMT).

“We couldn’t tell what had happened. It was only in the morning that we figured out it was an attack,” he told Reuters after visiting the site, in a wooded hilltop area.

“We saw fallen trees and one damaged house, and four craters where the bombs had fallen.”

Fida Hussain Shah, a 46 year-old farmer, said he and other villagers had found pieces of Indian ordnance that had splintered pine trees on the hill but the *only casualty was a man sleeping in his house when shrapnel broke the windows. *

Additional reporting by Jibran Ahmad in PESHAWAR; writing by James Mackenzie; Editing Cameron-Moore

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.


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## Amaa'n

45'22' said:


> I didn't call your country powerless ,I said it doesn't have the power to hit India....
> There is a difference between the 2.


you are more than welcome to take up the matter with Mods, open thread on GHQ, let the Admin take care of your case......your post is there for us to read


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## ghazi52




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## 45'22'

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Good action by mods. Stop trolling here.


I have been in this forum long enough and the stupid negative ratings don't bother me anymore lol



balixd said:


> you are more than welcome to take up the matter with Mods, open thread on GHQ, let the Admin take care of your case......your post is there for us to read


Naa...Thanks ,I will keep the negative


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## Inqlab-e-Pakistan

Guys mark my words India receive surprise in zafarwal n shakargarh sector


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## Indus Pakistan

Here we go. Drama begins -


_Addressing a press conference in New Delhi, Gokhale said "a large number of JeM terrorists were killed". 


"The strike avoided civil casualties," he alleged.


Early on Tuesday, Inter-Services Public Relations' (ISPR) Major-General Asif Ghafoor said that Indian military planes violated the Line of Control (LoC), intruding from the Muzaffarabad sector. "Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot."


"Credible intel [intelligence] was received that JeM was planning more suicide attacks in India," alleged the Indian official. "In the face of imminent danger, a preemptive strike became absolutely necessary."


"Top commanders were eliminated in the strike," he said, adding "the action took place just hours ago". _

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## Taimur Khurram

45'22' said:


> ,I said it doesn't have the power to hit India....



Pakistani militants hitting the Indian army is literally what caused this drama in the first place.


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## Indus Pakistan

This is why I am annoyed with PAF. It gave these drama queens the opportunity.

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## 45'22'

Areesh said:


> We don't support any terrorist. Don't give this cr@p here.


Then instead of denying the attacks, you should be happy that we killed a few terrorists inside your area....The targets were never civilians ,you already have lost a lot of lives in the war against terrorism right...You should be happy ,IAF entered and bombed a few places...But the denial

M


Taimur Khurram said:


> Pakistani militants hitting the Indian army is literally what caused this drama in the first place.


Militants exactly


----------



## ghazi52



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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

45'22' said:


> Then instead of denying the attacks, you should be happy that we killed a few terrorists inside your area....The targets were never civilians ,you already have lost a lot of lives in the war against terrorism right...You should be happy ,IAF entered and bombed a few places...But the denial
> 
> M
> 
> Militants exactly



Stop polluting the thread.


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## Taimur Khurram

45'22' said:


> Militants exactly



You said Pakistan, that includes Pakistanis you know.

If you want examples of the Pakistani army. @Windjammer has many threads.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

45'22' said:


> Then instead of denying the attacks, you should be happy that we killed a few terrorists inside your area....The targets were never civilians ,you already have lost a lot of lives in the war against terrorism right...You should be happy ,IAF entered and bombed a few places...But the denial
> 
> M
> 
> Militants exactly







WHERE is the evidence you killed any "terrorists"?..............NONE of the major Western news outlets or agencies are confirming indian claims. As india is not releasing any GENUINE, RELIABLE & HONEST evidence of the attacks itself, it's looking more like a propaganda bid.



ghazi52 said:


>






The above is a tacit admission of a failed or made up indian fantasy.

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## Areesh

45'22' said:


> Then instead of denying the attacks, you should be happy that we killed a few terrorists inside your area....The targets were never civilians ,you already have lost a lot of lives in the war against terrorism right...You should be happy ,IAF entered and bombed a few places...But the denial



No dear. You have fired bombs in our territory and killed few trees

But still it would have response.

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## VCheng

Indus Pakistan said:


> This is why I am annoyed with PAF. It gave these drama queens the opportunity.



Please keep in mind of maintaining CAP missions 24/7 all across the country vs scrambling only when needed.


----------



## sinait

balixd said:


> you can see I never rated anyone on this thread with red, you called out my country, calling the entire country powerless.....that meets the criteria for rating any post as negative.....and i do not like to see such posts.....i can counter something only when there is something to counter.....there was nothing in your post but usual trolling and rant.....


Negative rating well given.
Pakistan members showed restrain after Pulwama incident.
These Indians don't know how to shut up after this OUTRAGE by India.
ALL Indian actions end up in *ambiguity*, *WHY*??
As FAKE as surgical strike.
.

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## Albatross



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## ghazi52

Replying to @BBCUrdu
اس بندے کا انٹرویو لے لیا اور چند کلومیٹر دور پھیلی تباہی کی کوئی تصویر یا ویڈیو بنانے کا خیال تک دل میں نہ آیا



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100297657396932608



Sikander Fayyaz Bhadera Retweeted BBC News اردو

1۔ مانسہرہ چلے گئے تو گھر کیوں نا دکھائے؟ 2۔ کسی زخمی یا شہید تک کیوں نا پہنچے؟ 3۔ ان بھائی کو کیسے پتا آواز بمب کی اور سونک بوم کی نہیں؟ 4۔ ان صاحب نے انڈین اور پاکستانی جہازوں میں فرق کیسے کیا؟


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## Arsalan 345

problem for paf is low number of caps.i think only two jets challenged 12 jets.in any case,it was useless.why we didn't send large formation when we detected their large formation?and dg ispr didn't say anything about air defence systems which means there was nothing,no sams to protect the skies.i can't believe this.i don't care what they hit.we must retaliate.we should show to the world that we aren't scared.iaf went deep inside our territory and it's a big failure.


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## Osiris

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> WHERE is the evidence you killed any "terrorists"?..............NONE of the major Western news outlets or agencies are confirming indian claims. As india is not releasing any GENUINE, RELIABLE & HONEST evidence of the attacks itself, it's looking more like a propaganda bid.



*Evidence is currently being buried*, no media has made yet made it to site of the attack, almost entire day has passed since the attack.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Pakistan response is coming. Indians should be ready to defend their military failures.

In sha Allah, we will show you what a real incursion looks like.

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## untitled

Inqlab-e-Pakistan said:


> Guys mark


Why disclose this?


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Osiris said:


> *Evidence is currently being buried*, no media has made to site of the attack, almost entire day has passed since the attack.



No proof, only conjecture


----------



## VCheng

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Pakistan response is coming. Indians should be ready to defend their military failures.
> 
> In sha Allah, we will show you what a real incursion looks like.



Pakistan will not be making any retaliatory border incursions, that is clear.


----------



## SorryNotSorry

Areesh said:


> Then show us the pictures or something that would prove we are wrong.
> 
> Anything???





M.Musa said:


> What about your claims. No video footage, no proof of casualties.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100383419622666240


lets wait and watch.

All I’m saying is the official pictures posted by ISPR don’t look convincing. You can keep your blinders on.


----------



## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100389700358029314

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## Inqlab-e-Pakistan

things getting heating up...reports of shelling along LOC in khoirata Abbaspur Nikyal sectors..


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## Osiris

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> No proof, only conjecture



Conjecture, it might be, but it is very logical one. Why no one has made it to that crater, so far ?


----------



## HRK

member.exe said:


> Could it be the ordnance jettisoned by the Indian jets?


bhai but how can be 3-4 explosions after 4 to 6 hours you listen the video attached in the tweet yourself and decide,

and the biggest idiocy Indian posted on the media is *12 M2K *made the intrusion attempt but drop only 1000 Kg I mean literally what was the payload they were carrying ....?? even if 4-6 jets were providing Air cover what other 6-8 jets were carrying ....??? Tomatoes ....???

In all likelihood 3-4 jets might have attempted to intrude but return towards IOK one intercept was attempted by PAF.

Plus we know Indian Mirage are integrated with Israeli Lighting targeting pod so the there must be some video recording of the so called Jaish-e-Mohammad Terror camp being targetd by Indian jets .... so is there any video release by Indian side .... ???

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

SorryNotSorry said:


> lets wait and watch.
> 
> All I’m saying is the official pictures posted by ISPR don’t look convincing. You can keep your blinders on.



And sensationalist propaganda on indian airways is convincing?


----------



## Great Janjua

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Pakistan response is coming. Indians should be ready to defend their military failures.
> 
> In sha Allah, we will show you what a real incursion looks like.


Whole off Indian media and their retired generals are shitting bricks as too what PAF is going to do next we shall have to wait for a bit ena thi asi bund mara thay

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## M. Sarmad

Osiris said:


> Conjecture, it might be, but it is very logical one. Why no one has made it to that crater, so far ?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100390500379643904

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## scorpionx

VCheng said:


> Pakistan will not be making any retaliatory border incursions, that is clear.


Kiyun ki India ne toh attack kiya hi nehi. Great logic.


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## Arsalan 345

heavy shelling from both sides on different sectors.


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## ghazi52

There is already a lack of trees in our country, so we have started a campaign .

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Osiris said:


> Conjecture, it might be, but it is very logical one. Why no one has made it to that crater, so far ?



Logical if you listen to hatefilled propagandists who know all the facts before IAF even, lol.


----------



## VCheng

scorpionx said:


> Kiyun ki India ne toh attack kiya hi nehi. Great logic.



Neither side will escalate this matter any further.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

VCheng said:


> Neither side will escalate this matter any further.



Escalation already has begun.

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## Areesh

SorryNotSorry said:


> lets wait and watch.
> 
> All I’m saying is the official pictures posted by ISPR don’t look convincing. You can keep your blinders on.



Everyone is open to go to that area and take photos and whatever. International media is already talking to locals

You can believe whatever you want to

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## Windjammer

Osiris said:


> *Evidence is currently being buried*, no media has made yet made it to site of the attack, almost entire day has passed since the attack.


Every other person carries a camera phone these days, if people in India can film and post a rape on a public footpath, some one from our side wouldn't hesitate to post visuals of any bomb damage so whatever you wish is not exactly the truth.

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## VCheng

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Escalation already has begun.



Watch it go down. Mark my words.


----------



## ghazi52

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/4...cts-indian-propaganda-of-targeting-jaish-camp


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## scorpionx

VCheng said:


> Neither side will escalate this matter any further.


Likely so. Modi got what he wanted, and Pakistan simply cannot afford to retaliate.


----------



## VCheng

scorpionx said:


> Likely so. Modi got what he wanted, and Pakistan simply cannot afford to retaliate.



Rinse. Repeat as needed. So what's new?

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## Osiris

M. Sarmad said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100390500379643904



That is not this place.






why has no one reached here yet ?


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## ghazi52

Expecting Visitors from Pakistan.

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## Osiris

Windjammer said:


> Every other person carries a camera phone these days, if people in India can film and post a rape on a public footpath, some one from our side wouldn't hesitate to post visuals of any bomb damage so whatever you wish is not exactly the truth.



And yet none of your media or even locals have managed to reach here. Why ?


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

scorpionx said:


> Likely so. Modi got what he wanted, and Pakistan simply cannot afford to retaliate.



Keep hoping. When every major PTI minister, the president, and PM in Pakistan have stated that there will be retaliation, it will come.

PTI’s political future is on the line now and Pakistan’s reputation as well.

It is up to a state to show its deterrence capabilities to its enemies.

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## ice_man

scorpionx said:


> Likely so. Modi got what he wanted, and Pakistan simply cannot afford to retaliate.



afford???? why can't we afford please explain.


----------



## ghazi52

IAF conducted the "fuel tank" strike. Most probably IAF dumbed the fuel tanks in small village of Bala-Kote which is located right on LOC.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Osiris said:


> *Evidence is currently being buried*, no media has made yet made it to site of the attack, almost entire day has passed since the attack.





So how do you know it's being "buried"?....... besides, in the era of smartphones it's nearly impossible to do. More importantly, WHY hasn't the indian airforce released footage of the combat? Even retarded isis fighters released footage of them shooting down a Russian fighter jet.

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## Stealth

bhayoon situation kuch asi hay kay abhe may Office ja raha ho aur sooch raha ho SIR G KAL strikes kesay karni hey kyonkay eek taraf Mohali ka Sikh bhaetha hay doosri taraf Mumbai ki larki .. aa Qayamat jesa manzar Pakistan may rehnay walay Pakistani kabhe nahi samaj sakhtay par dont worry i will tackle both by dropping fuel water tanks

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## scorpionx

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Keep hoping. When every major PTI minister, the president, and PM in Pakistan have stated that there will be retaliation, it will come.
> 
> PTI’s political future is on the line now and Pakistan’s reputation as well.
> 
> It is up to a state to show its deterrence capabilities to its enemies.


Answering you and @ice_man bhai together. What would be your retaliation? Starting a conventional war?


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## Windjammer

*Sleep well Indian with your lies under your pillows.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100391856456851456

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## Osiris

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> So how do you know it's being "buried"?....... besides, in the era of smartphones it's nearly impossible to do. More importantly, WHY hasn't the indian airforce released footage of the combat? Even retarded isis fighters released footage of them shooting down a Russian fighter jet.



Why else a whole day pass and none of your media outlets will be able to make it to site, where Indian ordinance was dropped.What are they doing ?

Why should IAF release anything, they have nothing to prove to you. They came inside your country , bombed a target 80 km inside Pakistan, went back unscathed and all this while, your armed forces was full alert.

They already proved, what they wanted to.

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## ghazi52

*Hamza Ali Abbasi*‏Verified account @iamhamzaabbasi

#Balakot WELL DONE INDIA! Much improvement from the fake "Surgical Strike" claim. This time yes IAF aircraft crossed LOC 4 to 6 miles at 2.55am & had to retreat at 2.59am due to PAF scrambling dropping the load on the way martyring our trees. But now, Pakistan MUST retaliate.







3:55 AM - 26 Feb 2019

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## Hallian_Khan

ghazi52 said:


> *Hamza Ali Abbasi*‏Verified account @iamhamzaabbasi
> 
> #Balakot WELL DONE INDIA! Much improvement from the fake "Surgical Strike" claim. This time yes IAF aircraft crossed LOC 4 to 6 miles at 2.55am & had to retreat at 2.59am due to PAF scrambling dropping the load on the way martyring our trees. But now, Pakistan MUST retaliate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3:55 AM - 26 Feb 2019


it was more than 50 miles not just 4 to 5 miles...


----------



## Chhatrapati

maximuswarrior said:


> You *only struck trees*.


Pat each others back with that.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Osiris said:


> Why else a whole day pass and none of your media outlets will be able to make it to site, where Indian ordinance was dropped.What are they doing ?
> 
> Why should IAF release anything, they have nothing to prove to you. They came inside your country , bombed a target 80 km inside Pakistan, went back unscathed and all this while, your armed forces was full alert.
> 
> They already proved, what they wanted to.



Media is there now.


----------



## Chhatrapati

Reichsmarschall said:


> Abey randway go to YouTube type "Pakistan airforce Islamabad night fly"
> Watch the first video check it's date of upload come back here again and delete the rant you just posted would save you from alot of embarrassment


LOL! Dummy, read back what I said.


----------



## Arsalan 345

enquencher said:


> Source cannot be reaveled here..talk to people on ur side of border
> Indian navy has started with their moves.





Osiris said:


> Why else a whole day pass and none of your media outlets will be able to make it to site, where Indian ordinance was dropped.What are they doing ?
> 
> Why should IAF release anything, they have nothing to prove to you. They came inside your country , bombed a target 80 km inside Pakistan, went back unscathed and all this while, your armed forces was full alert.
> 
> They already proved, what they wanted to.



i understand your point.it was failure from our side but lets see what will happen in near future.heavy shelling continues from both sides.


----------



## Dante80

Managed to source an old HUMINT report from Cuba. It seems that JEM *did have* a training camp in Bakalot. Attaching the relevant wikileaks file. Not sure how or in what point this info is applicable though.

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## Indus Pakistan

scorpionx said:


> What would be your retaliation?


Good question. The retalion does not have to be much beyond leaving behind a calling card in Indian territory. Possibly a commondo raid across the LOC although that does have risks. More likely fire missiles at some military target in India - say 10 miles deep within the Jammu sector.

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## ghazi52

*Pakistan shall respond at the time and place of its choosing: NSC*

February 26, 2019


The government has strongly rejected Indian claim of targeting an alleged terrorist camp near Balakot which New Delhi said had resulted in heavy casualties.

“Once again Indian government has resorted to a self-serving, reckless and fictitious claim,” a statement issued after the National Security Committee met in Islamabad.

The meeting, chaired by Prime Minister Imran Khan and attended by top civil-military leadership said that the action “has been done for domestic consumption being an election environment, putting regional peace and stability at grave risk”.

The leadership resolved that India had committed an “uncalled for aggression to which Pakistan shall respond at the time and place of its choosing”.

The government, meanwhile, decided to host foreign and local media to inspect the impact site to further its stance. “The claimed area of strike is open for the world to see the facts on ground. For this domestic and international media is being taken to the impact site,” the statement added.

The prime minister directed “elements of national power including the armed forces and the people of Pakistan to remain prepared for all eventualities.”

In this regard, he will engage with global leadership to expose irresponsible Indian policy in the region.

The prime minister lauded timely and effective response of the PAF to “repulse Indian attempt without any loss of life or property.”

Apart from deciding to take the issue to global forums, and highlighting the irresponsible Indian policy for world leaders to see, the PM also summoned a special meeting of the National Command Authority on February 27.

In order to bring the nation up to date with Pakistan’s stance, the PM also decided to call a joint session of Parliament.

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## scorpionx

Dante80 said:


> Managed to source an old HUMINT report from Cuba. It seems that JEM *did have* a training camp in Bakalot. Attaching the relevant wikileaks file. Not sure how or in what point this info is applicable though.


The locals are saying to press that there was a camp. Now a heavily fortified Madrasah.

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## Dante80

scorpionx said:


> The locals are saying to press that there was a camp. Now a heavily fortified Madrasah.



Ah. So that corroborates the info.


----------



## scorpionx

Indus Pakistan said:


> Good question. The retalion does not have to be much beyond leaving behind a calling card in Indian territory. Possibly a commondo raid across the LOC although that does have risks. More likely fire missiles at some military target in India - say 10 miles deep within the Jammu sector.


I clearly doubt Pakistani military would target Indian military installations.


----------



## VCheng

ghazi52 said:


> The leadership resolved that India had committed an “uncalled for aggression to which Pakistan shall respond at the time and place of its choosing”.



What this means between the lines is that Pakistan will not respond for now. That is a good thing.



scorpionx said:


> I clearly doubt Pakistani military would target Indian military installations.



There will be vigorous outrage which Pakistan will highlight at every opportunity all across the word, for sure.


----------



## ghazi52

*It’s your turn to get ready for surprise, Pakistan Army tells India*

February 26, 2019

Army has rubbished Indian claims of an attack on Pakistani soil which New Delhi said had resulted in “heavy casualties”.

“Not even a single brick or debris is present there. They are claiming 350 deaths. Even had there been 10 casualties, there would be blood, funeral prayers, injuries,” Major General Asif Ghafoor said in a news conference on Tuesday afternoon.

The military spokesman refuted claims that PAF was not ready to deal with any Indian misadventure. “We were ready, we responded, we denied,” he said. “It is your [India] turn now to wait and get ready for our surprise.”

Ghafoor said the Indian aircraft were chased away by PAF jets, which were immediately scrambled to thwart any aggressive move by the country’s eastern neighbour.

His reaction came hours after the National Security Committee strongly rejected Indian claims, saying New Delhi had “resorted to a self-serving, reckless and fictitious claim.

The meeting, which was attended by top civil-military leadership, resolved to respond “at the time and place of its choosing”.


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## Osiris

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Media is there now.



Screen grab / video of the site?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Dante80 said:


> Managed to source an old HUMINT report from Cuba. It seems that JEM *did have* a training camp in Bakalot. Attaching the relevant wikileaks file. Not sure how or in what point this info is applicable though.





Dante80 said:


> Ah. So that corroborates the info.



BBC is the only one who claimed that and I believe it is because they are filled with Indian propaganda.

There is a madrasa in that village where kids learn Quran, just like in every village, city block in Pakistan.

India makes tall claims daily but no evidence is ever given.

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## Windjammer

*NASA has apparently contacted the IAF, requesting Indians to share the technology by which they can count the exact number of casualties in the middle of night while sitting in their jets. *

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## Dante80

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> BBC is the only one who claimed that and I believe it is because they are filled with Indian propaganda.
> 
> There is a madrasa is in that village where kids learn Quran, just like in every village, city block in Pakistan.
> 
> India makes tall claims daily but no evidence is ever given.



The info I gave was from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Interrogation of a Taliban insurgent. Look it up, above. If my understanding is correct, there was a JEM camp there that was converted to a Madrasa some years before.


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## ice_man

scorpionx said:


> Answering you and @ice_man bhai together. What would be your retaliation? Starting a conventional war?



nope attack across the LoC by our army. with heavy artillery. you crossed LoC so can we it is only fair. 

you had your turn


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Osiris said:


> Screen grab / video of the site?



Check the Dawn and BBC articles.

We have Pakistani media there as well. 

Check the posts here in this thread more thoroughly.

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## Indus Pakistan

scorpionx said:


> I clearly doubt Pakistani military would target Indian military installations.


Is that not what is already happening everyday at low level along the LOC? A missile attack will include the intrusion [reflection of Indian intrusion] and leave behind a mark. Thus qualifying as "appropriate response" to what India did.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Dante80 said:


> The info I gave was from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Interrogation of a Taliban insurgent. Look it up, above.



Lol.

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## HRK

CHACHA"G" said:


> Apparently


enough ....
bhai calculate the apparent stay of 12 min and the speed at which Fighter jets fly what should be distance they must have covered in those 12 min ....???

A SUCCESSFUL repulsion of intrusion attempt is not praiseworthy but Indian claim is all acceptable to many IDIOTS .....???

Listen press briefing

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## Indus Pakistan

Dante80 said:


> The info I gave was from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Interrogation of a Taliban insurgent. Look it up, above. If my understanding is correct, there was a JEM camp there that was converted to a Madrasa some years before.


A small bit of info from 15 years ago is insufficient - even that acquired probably from a subject under torture.

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## Dante80

Indus Pakistan said:


> A small bit of info from 15 years ago is insufficient - even that acquired probably from a subject under torture.



Agreed. But it gives _some_ credence to what the locals were saying on that other report, right?


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## VCheng

Indus Pakistan said:


> Good question. The retalion does not have to be much beyond leaving behind a calling card in Indian territory. Possibly a commondo raid across the LOC although that does have risks. More likely fire missiles at some military target in India - say 10 miles deep within the Jammu sector.



If any step is taken at some point in the future, it will likely involve non-State actors, with some form of plausible deniability to limit international fallout.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Count Dracula said:


> Jaish has acknowledged the strike!! obviously they wont admit causalities.



Where? Show us the statement.

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## ice_man

Windjammer said:


> *NASA has apparently contacted the IAF, requesting Indians to share the technology by which they can count the exact number of casualties in the middle of night while sitting in their jets. *



How can indians even believe their own shit. like it is insane.


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## scorpionx

Indus Pakistan said:


> Is that not what is already happening everyday at low level along the LOC? A missile attack will include the intrusion [reflection of Indian intrusion] and leave behind a mark. Thus qualifying as "appropriate response" to what India did.


But as you said, attacking deep inside Indian territory with missiles is a clear call for war. India will not sit idle either. Can Pakistan afford for a full fledged war today? Given its financial precariousness and poor state its navy and airforce are in? Otoh, India would fully capitalize the situation and make Pakistan look like an aggressor state.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

VCheng said:


> If any step is taken at some point in the future, it will likely involve non-State actors, with some form of plausible deniability to limit international fallout.



We don’t have such assets in IOK. We give only moral support.

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## Hareeb

اے راہ حق کے شہیدو،وفا کی تصویرو 
تمہیں وطن کی ہوائیں سلام کہتی ہیں

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## Devil Soul

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Where?


TOI .... toilet NEWS ... network ...yeh bhi koi pochana wali baat hai


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## Osiris

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Check the Dawn and BBC articles.
> 
> We have Pakistani media there as well.
> 
> Check the posts here in this thread more thoroughly.



No one has made to this site yet.





Nor will they, unless they are on guided tour with your army.


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## VCheng

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> We don’t have such assets in IOK. We give only moral support.



Officially, what you are saying is absolutely correct.

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## CHACHA"G"

HRK said:


> enough ....
> bhai calculate the apparent stay of 12 min and the speed at which Fighter jets fly what should be distance they must have covered in those 12 min ....???
> 
> A SUCCESSFUL repulsion of intrusion attempt is not praiseworthy but Indian claim is all acceptable to many IDIOTS .....???
> 
> Listen press briefing


Sir g ,,,, I already said for me distance and place is not the matter ……… For me IAF jets came and the fired and they went back safe...…….. That's it...…… Rest is a good story for me from Pakistani side and I will not even going to quote Indian randui rona…………. Indian drama is on...…….. PAF , and our Airdefence gave them great story ……. Now india will do the rest of the job with Her propaganda …………..

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Osiris said:


> No one has made to this site yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nor will they, unless they are on guided tour with your army.



They are there, all around Jabba. You can see the videos here.

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## PDF

FM Pakistan informed United States Secretary of State Mike Pompeo of the current situation during telephonic contact between them.

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## Devil Soul

Hareeb said:


> اے راہ حق کے شہیدو،وفا کی تصویرو
> تمہیں وطن کی ہوائیں سلام کہتی ہیں
> 
> 
> View attachment 542091


Rona nai hai Bhaioo...... Sir Utha Kaay...

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## Indus Pakistan

VCheng said:


> If any step is taken at some point in the future, it will likely involve non-State actors, with some form of plausible deniability to limit international fallout.


True. That is also one way forward. Just transfer ton of high quality explosives and some quality training to Kashmiri Mohajideen. I am sure ISI still have old CIA manuels from 1980s in how to conduct asymmetrical warfare whilst maintaining plaubible deniability as used against Soviets in Afghanistan in 1980s. Sort of Pakistani variant of Operation Cyclone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone


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## Osiris

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> They are there, all around Jabba. You can see the videos here.



They are on adjacent hills, no one is at ground zero yet..otherwise just post video of it.


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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100401074668752896

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## YeBeWarned

scorpionx said:


> But as you said, attacking deep inside Indian territory with missiles is a clear call for war. India will not sit idle either. Can Pakistan afford for a full fledged war today? Given its financial precariousness and poor state its navy and airforce are in? Otoh, India would fully capitalize the situation and make Pakistan look like an aggressor state.



i think situation is now ahead of who will be the aggressor , IAF did whatever they could or want to, now the ball is in Pakistan court, i think Indian media has done job for Pakistan, if Pakistan did similar strike in India it will be called as a act of Revenge not aggression and we will have plenty of evidence to back out claim .

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## VCheng

Indus Pakistan said:


> True. That is also one way forward. Just transfer ton of high quality explosives and some quality training to Kashmiri Mohajideen. I am sure ISI still have old CIA manuels from 1980s in how to conduct asymmetrical warfare whilst maintaining plaubible deniability as used against Soviets in Afghanistan in 1980s. Sort of Pakistani variant of Operation Cyclone.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone



As @AgNoStiC MuSliM said elsewhere, pretending to have US capabilities in such matters does not make anyone appear wise.


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## IFB

Modi is with holding video of attack...first they will let the opposition find any lies they could peddle about this operation on main stream fake indian media...and just before the election they will release the footage calling con party fake and score some brownie points...that is if pakistan still has not retaliated till election...pakistan can punish modi...they have the power now by not giving him any more opportunity to milk this cross border tension...will they be able do it is the big question mark now...cause they are in a fix right now...if they dont do anything they can expect an even more bigger response next time when some thing like this happens in future...which inevitably will happen...so that is there.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

VCheng said:


> As @AgNoStiC MuSliM said elsewhere, pretending to have US capabilities in such matters does not make anyone appear wise.


US Technological capabilities, plus the enormous economic, geo-political and military clout to deter a response. Training and tactics that don't require enormous amounts of resources can be replicated, but it is the US combination of the factors mentioned above that really sets them apart from anyone else on the planet.


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## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100401888867110913


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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> US Technological capabilities, plus the enormous economic, geo-political and military clout to deter a response. Training and tactics that don't require enormous amounts of resources can be replicated, but it is the US combination of the factors mentioned above that really sets them apart from anyone else on the planet.



Exactly my point! 

I am sure Pakistan has enough capabilities in this regard, although nowhere nearly as much as is endlessly hyped up by India for its own purposes.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Dante80 said:


> Agreed. But it gives _some_ credence to what the locals were saying on that other report, right?


The relocation of JeM to Balakot was in the media years ago. The training camps were shut down and what remained was a madrassa (which apparently the IAF failed to hit).

Personally I believe this was intentional. The IAF really didn't have any good targets and they knew they could only sustain a surprise incursion for a few minutes, so they picked an isolated area that had been widely reported as a JeM Madrassa location, with plenty of uninhabited forests and mountains, and hurriedly dropped their bombs in uninhabited areas and left, letting the Indian media and government do PR and exaggerate the claims.

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## ghazi52

*International community urges Pakistan, India to exercise restraint*
AFP
February 26, 2019







The European Union on Tuesday called on New Delhi and Islamabad to exercise "maximum restraint". — AFP/File

China on Tuesday urged India and Pakistan to “exercise restraint” after the Inter-Services Public Relations said that Indian warplanes violated the Line of Control (LoC) last night and released their payload in Muzaffarabad sector of the Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK).

“We hope that both India and Pakistan can exercise restraint and adopt actions that will help stabilise the situation in the region and improve mutual relations,” China's Foreign Ministry Spokesman Lu Kang said.

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi is expected to meet his Indian counterpart Sushma Swaraj and Russia's Sergei Lavrov in the Chinese city of Wuzhen on Wednesday for a previously planned meeting.

Wang called Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Monday to discuss the recent suicide attack, saying China supports Pakistan and India in efforts to resolve the issue through dialogue, state news agency _Xinhua_ reported.

Earlier in the day, ISPR head Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor in his tweet said the "Indian Air Force violated Line of Control", following which "Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled" and Indian aircraft went back.

No casualties or damage occurred, the military spokesperson had added.

*EU urges 'maximum restraint'*

The European Union on Tuesday called on New Delhi and Islamabad to exercise "maximum restraint".

"We remain in contact with both countries and what we believe is essential is that all exercise maximum restraint and avoid further escalation of tensions," EU spokeswoman Maja Kocijancic told reporters.


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## Riz

M.Musa said:


> FM Pakistan informed United States Secretary of State Mike Pompeo of the current situation during telephonic contact between them.


FM is informing all big powers and taking them into confidence before going to hit back india.... Few indian military HQs are going to be boomed... Huhuhu.. According to some information indian army stsrted vacant bunkers along side of Pak border... Lol


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## Indus Pakistan

VCheng said:


> pretending to have US capabilities


Supporting 'terrorists' is *not* a capability but matter of policy. Please try to *differantiate* between policy and capability. Two examples here for you -


supporting Afghan Mujihadeen/Kashmiri Mujihadeen ~ Policy
being able to deploy carrier groups or satellite surveilance ~ Capability


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## scorpionx

Starlord said:


> i think situation is now ahead of who will be the aggressor , IAF did whatever they could or want to, now the ball is in Pakistan court, i think Indian media has done job for Pakistan, if Pakistan did similar strike in India it will be called as a act of Revenge not aggression and we will have plenty of evidence to back out claim .


International pressure would already be piled up on Pakistan by tomorrow or a day after, not to act drastically. The best time for Pakistan to take revenge is already gone.


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## ghazi52

Initially, India’s defence ministry denied knowledge of the incident. “I have no information,” _Reuters_ quoted an Indian defence ministry spokesperson.

Shortly after, Indian Foreign Secretary Vijay Ghokhale read out a statement regarding the LoC incident and claimed IAF had carried out airstrikes.

Chairman for Center for Research and Security Studies Imtiaz Gul said the veracity of the Indian claims was difficult to ascertain as they issued no visual evidence. He also questioned Ghokhale’s refusal to take questions in the press conference.

Brigadier (retd) Asad Munir echoed the same opinion. “The IAF should have footage from the aircraft that dropped the bombs – they should release the visuals to back their claim.”

Munir pointed out that even the Indian media was using images shared by ISPR. “Why did their foreign secretary not entertain questions in the press conference? Even the Indian side is confused about the location of the ‘attack’.”


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## Roybot

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The relocation of JeM to Balakot was in the media years ago. The training camps were shut down and what remained was a madrassa (which apparently the IAF failed to hit).
> 
> Personally I believe this was intentional. The IAF really didn't have any good targets and they knew they could only sustain a surprise incursion for a few minutes, so they picked an isolated area that had been widely reported as a JeM Madrassa location, with plenty of uninhabited forests and mountains, and hurriedly dropped their bombs in uninhabited areas and left, letting the Indian media and government do PR and exaggerate the claims.



What is with this "hurriedly dropped their bombs" line that you Pakistanis are going on about? As opposed to what? Bombing an enemy country and hanging back, just chilling out?

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## YeBeWarned

scorpionx said:


> International pressure would already be piled up on Pakistan by tomorrow or a day after, not to act drastically. The best time for Pakistan to take revenge is already gone.



why ? wouldn't it be Pakistan right to respond ? and our Army and Top Govt Officials already said about a retaliatory strike if there is any Pressure it would have come by now, some Threats from US of sanctions or EU . So far nothing ,as i said India did whatever they could, now its on Pakistan , doing nothing will be far worse for Pakistan hence Pakistan should do something and get some angry western countries, if we can handle sanctions in Past, now we are in much better position to handle them .

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## ghazi52

Former director of ‘Sector for Air Power Studies’ Air Commodore Jamal Hussain stressed that if the IAF used Mirage 2000s then they intended to attack. “Mirage 2000 is not used to check response time. They certainly intended to carry out a surgical strike.”

Gul added that the area IAF claims to have targeted was difficult to distinguish. “A Mirage 2000 travels at around 1,680 miles/hour – at this speed, the fighter jet can easily cross into another country’s airspace.”

Observing that the images from the site issued by the ISPR did not show remnants of an explosion, Hussain suggested the possibility that the bomb may have ‘malfunctioned’ or the IAF pilot “may have forgotten to turn off the safety switch before unloading it.”

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## QasimTraveler

An interesting point of view.


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## ghazi52

Both Pakistan and India have strong air defence. “The two sides are able to carry out swift surprise air raids within 30 kilometres of the border without being intercepted by the adversary’s fighters that are on ground alert,” he said.

“The misconception about immediate response has to be demystified. A fighter jet flies at the speed of 1000s of kilometres per hour – it can reach the target area within minutes. The response time for a fighter jet to reach incursion site varies from at least five to 10 minutes.”

“It is impossible to counter the attack, however, we can retaliate,” he explained. “Be it Pakistan, India or even the United States – no country can have fighter aircraft on watch 24/7. It is too costly.”

As India faces doubts over the accuracy of its claims due to the failure of credible evidence, Gul suggested Pakistan armed forces take the initiative by allowing foreign and local media access to the site.

“A tour of the site to inspect the damage caused and the debris left behind by the IAF can help dismiss the Indian narrative.”


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## VCheng

Indus Pakistan said:


> Supporting 'terrorists' is *not* a capability but matter of policy. Please try to *differantiate* between policy and capability. Two examples here for you -
> 
> 
> supporting Afghan Mujihadeen/Kashmiri Mujihadeen ~ Policy
> being able to deploy carrier groups or satellite surveilance ~ Capability



Okay then: ".... pretending to have US capabilities or follow similar policies .... "


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

ghazi52 said:


> Observing that the images from the site issued by the ISPR did not show remnants of an explosion, Hussain suggested the possibility that the bomb may have ‘malfunctioned’ or the IAF pilot “may have *forgotten to turn off the safety switch before unloading it*.”



The plot thickens.

Hasty withdrawal it is.

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## Hareeb

The place where the load actually fell.





__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## VCheng

scorpionx said:


> International pressure would already be piled up on Pakistan by tomorrow or a day after, not to act drastically. The best time for Pakistan to take revenge is already gone.



As I have said, both sides will see the wisdom in de-escalation.

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## Muhammad Omar

Hareeb said:


> The place where the load actually fell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


This place is Balakot ?? 50 Km from Indian border? If that's so where was our F-Sola and Thunders? Where were our air defence??


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## scorpionx

Starlord said:


> why ? wouldn't it be Pakistan right to respond ? and our Army and Top Govt Officials already said about a retaliatory strike if there is any Pressure it would have come by now, some Threats from US of sanctions or EU . So far nothing ,as i said India did whatever they could, now its on Pakistan , doing nothing will be far worse for Pakistan hence Pakistan should do something and get some angry western countries, if we can handle sanctions in Past, now we are in much better position to handle them .


I know, Pakistani civilian and military elite are under pressure to retaliate. Lets see how they handle it.

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## Arsalan 345

very interesting updates here.
https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff

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## Indus Pakistan

scorpionx said:


> But as you said, attacking deep inside Indian territory with missiles is a clear call for war.


As long as it is 'proportionate' to Indian action it would be 'riposte' not war.



scorpionx said:


> Can Pakistan afford for a full fledged war today? Given its financial precariousness and poor state its navy and airforce are in? Otoh, India would fully capitalize the situation and make Pakistan look like an aggressor state.


It would be a reaction to Indian action by IAF so how can that be counted as 'aggression'. The aggressor state is India as it already intruded into Pakistani airspace.

As regards affordiability India/Pak wars won't last longer then 14 days before either going nuclear to ceasfire. Pakistan can afford that. However I was thinking the smarter thing by PM IK might be to contact western capitals, exercise restraint, earn respect as a statesman and then use that for bargaining for improved economic oportunities with those countries.

Meantime kick the 'revenge' can down the road with ISI who can give another Pulwama to India at a later date.

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## Devil Soul

26/02/2019 2:13 PM IST | Updated 5 hours ago
*Balakot: Govt Leaves It To Friendly Media To Provide Strike Details*
*Journalists are letting the government gain political points for the strike without taking responsibility for information put out on the government's behalf.*



By Aman Sethi






PRAKASH SINGH VIA GETTY IMAGES


NEW DELHI — When Indian Foreign Secretary Vijay Keshav Gokhale read out a prepared statement on what he described as an “intelligence-led”, “pre-emptive”, “non-military” strike on Pakistani soil, he made clear he wouldn’t be taking in questions.

So no clarification on which “Balakot” this was — the one deep in Pakistani territory, or the one just across the border in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir?

No opportunity to ask questions like:

*What were the estimated casualties on the ground?

What was the basis of these casualty estimates?

What was the nature of the intelligence that made this strike essential?*

*If we have such great intelligence, why didn’t we see the Pulwama attack coming?*

*Is bringing the sub-continent to the brink of all-out war, really the best possible response to the Pulwama attack?*

The government’s reticence is understandable. No government likes to share details, particularly about a sensitive cross-border operation against a nuclear-armed neighbour.


https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry...de-strike-details_in_5c74f233e4b03a10c23114bc


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## YeBeWarned

scorpionx said:


> I know, Pakistani civilian and military elite are under pressure to retaliate. Lets see how they handle it.



exactly my point , i think IAF did mishandle the situation , they should not have done it , thing will get worse from now on .


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## Winchester

With three hostile neighbours, not acting now will have tremendous existential ramifications for the future of the Pakistani state. This cannot be stressed enough.

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## Armani

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466161

Ye bhi bolo ki kuch nahi hua hai….aur phir ye bhi bolo ki kuch nahi ka badla lenge.

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## Indus Pakistan

VCheng said:


> Okay then: ".... pretending to have US capabilities or follow similar policies ....


Your conflating bith. Nobody suggested Pak has similiar capabilities. However there is nothing stopping from Pak adopting US policies. This is where old CIA manuels from 1980s Afghan Mujihadeen can be re-opened by ISI. Oops wait a minute that already is being done. After all ISI is product of British but was groomed by USA in 1980s.

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## CHACHA"G"

My masomana question from Armed forces:::::::
Why our ground base air defence system did not work.
Why our MANPADS failed !! AA guns failed !!! And if we don't have SAMs and other air defence systems on LOC then wtf are we doing there?????
PAF know they need time to reach where they have to so why not more jets in Air ?? Why not they informed local ground base system that attack coming and shoot whatever comes from IOK...…#


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## Arsalan 345

i want retaliation.do it now.use standoff weapons.do something pakistan.two hour sleep for me.i don't know but i can't sleep.i just want retaliation.

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## Winchester

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100405353827598336

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Arsalan 345 said:


> very interesting updates here.
> https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff



Yes, very good info here.

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## VCheng

Indus Pakistan said:


> Your conflating bith. Nobody suggested Pak has similiar capabilities. However there is nothing stopping from Pak adopting US policies. This is where old CIA manuels from 1980s Afghan Mujihadeen can be re-opened by ISI. Oops wait a minute that already is being done. After all ISI is product of British but was groomed by USA in 1980s.



Sure, let's see what the ISI does in response to this incident, if and when. I do not foresee any big changes in the near term, but in the long term, Pakistan will slowly realize that it needs to change its policies in this regard as the pressure builds up slowly to a point where the costs of ignoring it are simply too much to bear.

(Just like USA, of course.  )

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## unbiasedopinion

Winchester said:


> With three hostile neighbours, not acting now will have tremendous existential ramifications for the future of the Pakistani state. This cannot be stressed enough.


It is too late awareness. The threat assessment done by you is very late. Any misadventure by Pakistan will be responded by all three sides whether you like it or not. Taking the cue from indian retaliation, think if Iranian forces also do their own kind of operation inside pakistan territory to take avenge for the suicide attack on their convoy the same day on Indian, and they able to achieve success then it is an open case for both the armies (indian and iranian) to collaborate and escalate it for common cause of eliminating the common non-state actors in pakistan which has considerable support in pakistan. 

Just think about it.


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## Arsalan 345

unbiasedopinion said:


> It is too late awareness. The threat assessment done by you is very late. Any misadventure by Pakistan will be responded by all three sides whether you like it or not. Taking the cue from indian retaliation, think if Iranian forces also do their own kind of operation inside pakistan territory to take avenge for the suicide attack on their convoy the same day on Indian, and they able to achieve success then it is an open case for both the armies (indian and iranian) to collaborate and escalate it for common cause of eliminating the common non-state actors in pakistan which has considerable support in pakistan.
> 
> Just think about it.



it's not over yet.wait for retaliation.you will feel pain when you see dead bodies.

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## Hareeb

Muhammad Omar said:


> This place is Balakot ?? 50 Km from Indian border? If that's so where was our F-Sola and Thunders? Where were our air defence??


Nope. Its *Bala Kote* in Poonch sector near LoC.


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## Bindas

Taimoor Khan said:


> its not balakot, its balakote, 3 kms from LOC. ISPR got this wrong.




When they say 4 km you say correct. when they say Balakot you say wrong. wow

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## Arsalan 345

it's not over my friends.this game is on the beginning level.


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## Muhammad Omar

Hareeb said:


> Nope. Its *Bala Kote* in Poonch sector near LoC.
> View attachment 542102


Bala Kote is on other side of LOC i.e Indian side so that means India dropped payload on their side

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## Yankee-stani

The Indians are sure good at making Bollywood films anyways you guys have the ego and since you are in election mode you are OGAGABAOGGAA we are supa powa and shiett as always we never asked for war but since you idiots want escalation then Pak will retaliate when needed

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## HRK

CHACHA"G" said:


> For me IAF jets came and the fired and they went back safe


mere bhai can every intrusion attempt could be stop ....??? no .... be practical its the response which matter If PAF intercept the intrusion which they did within few km and few minutes and deny IAF their targets its a success of PAF not the other way around don't fall prey of Indian propaganda 

Its real life not a video game .....

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## VCheng

Muhammad Omar said:


> Bala Kote is on other side of LOC i.e Indian side so that means India dropped payload on their side
> 
> View attachment 542103



I like your motorcycle icon. Great riding in that area.

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## Taimoor Khan

Bindas said:


> When they say 4 km you say correct. when they say Balakot you say wrong. wow



The intrusion was only 3~4 miles, and when interception was imminent, IAF jets jettisoned their payload and did the runner. its the payload which made the distance and hit some random peak.


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## Muhammad Omar

VCheng said:


> I like your motorcycle icon. Great riding in that area.


Enjoy the scenery
There's nothing in war

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## Arsalan 345

national command authority meeting is just a formality.i think they already give permission.you know what i mean.our retaliation must be a lesson for them.


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## unbiasedopinion

Arsalan 345 said:


> it's not over yet.wait for retaliation.you will feel pain when you see dead bodies.


I dont know about you but yes I have pain when I see dead bodies, it is bit natural to have that human feeling until you admit you are not human and dont have pain. But in war which was imposed on us since 30 years, we have responded for the first time. and i can see the panic everywhere. 
Definitely this time something has gone too right compared to last surgical strike which has caused Pakistan to rattle so much.
Lets see!! We are expecting something from you.

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## scorpionx

Muhammad Omar said:


> Bala Kote is on other side of LOC i.e Indian side so that means India dropped payload on their side
> 
> View attachment 542103


DG, ISPR said otherwise.


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## ghazi52

Former director of ‘Sector for Air Power Studies’ Air Commodore Jamal Hussain believes the Narendra Modi-led government needed theatrics to placate the rising calls for vengeance. “By telling the people that the Pulwama attack has been avenged, the BJP has cemented its position. Modi needed an escape route; he found one in a surgical strike.”

“The Pulwama attack was carried out by Kashmiris – even their army general admitted that the material used in the bomb was local,” said Munir.

The retired army official added that the JeM narrative pushed by India is “old intelligence”. He stressed that there were no organised JeM trainee camps.

“There may be certain elements affiliated with the JeM. In the 2000s, the JeM was banished, it moved to North Waziristan and began an onslaught against the army. Masood Azhar planned an attack on former army general Pervez Musharraf as well.”

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## Muhammad Omar

scorpionx said:


> DG, ISPR said otherwise.


DG ISPR said they dropped payload in JABA


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## Indus Pakistan

Take Aways are -


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100326223379685376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100239092812574721

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## Bindas

Today Indians need not talk about how fanboi Pakistani are understating facts and not taking truth. Pakistani with sensible head on shoulders are doing.


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## Bratva

HRK said:


> mere bhai can every intrusion attempt could be stop ....??? no .... be practical its the response which matter If PAF intercept the intrusion which they did within few km and few minutes and deny IAF their targets its a success of PAF not the other way around don't fall prey of Indian propaganda
> 
> Its real life not a video game .....



Wasn't it the purpose of IAF, to intrude little bit in Pak Airspace, jettison precise guided munitions and run away ? They were successful, no matter if PAF responded in timely matter or not. 4 PGM were successfully launched and exploded in Pakistan. It is not 90's or 2000's where PAF was expecting a conventional or LGB airstrike.

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## Armani

All these guys saying IAF struck inside AJK only 3-4km from LoC...if the target was that close, what's the need for airpower?

A simple 105mm field gun can hit targets that close.

ISPR needs to spin stories better. The targets were inside KP.

40-60 kms deep.

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## Indus Pakistan

@MastanKhan your thoughts about our 'Tunder JF-Thunders' please? Do they have purpose beyond 'Tundering' above Islamabd on Defence Day?

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## Arsalan 345

unbiasedopinion said:


> I dont know about you but yes I have pain when I see dead bodies, it is bit natural to have that human feeling until you admit you are not human and dont have pain. But in war which was imposed on us since 30 years, we have responded for the first time. and i can see the panic everywhere.
> Definitely this time something has gone too right compared to last surgical strike which has caused Pakistan to rattle so much.
> Lets see!! We are expecting something from you.



you don't want to solve kashmir.you didn't say terrorism was a problem during nawaz musharraf time.you adopted this policy after mumbai attack.pakistan isn't responsible for every thing inside kashmir.you attacked us.we will attack you.what do you think your attack makes you brave? pakistan have the ability to launch multiple attacks on india.you should wait for retaliation.don't celebrate your strikes.it is just the beginning.

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## Muhammad Omar

Indus Pakistan said:


> @MastanKhan your thoughts about our 'Tunder JF-Thunders' please? Do they have purpose beyond 'Tundering' above Islamabd on Defence Day?


Or giving protocols to state guests

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## Arsalan 345

two indian mirages spotted...

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Osiris said:


> Why else a whole day pass and none of your media outlets will be able to make it to site, where Indian ordinance was dropped.What are they doing ?
> 
> Why should IAF release anything, they have nothing to prove to you. They came inside your country , bombed a target 80 km inside Pakistan, went back unscathed and all this while, your armed forces was full alert.
> 
> They already proved, what they wanted to.





WHICH goes back to the main point, WHERE is the evidence that supports india's claims?........IF what you say indeed happened, US satellites and surveillance would have picked it up and confirmed it. The fact that they or no else did, speaks volumes. india claimed to have killed over 350 millitants, but there is not a shread of evidence to support this. Even india is not releasing any evidence. Looks highly suspicious. Unless it is not proven then india's credibility will diminish.

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## pkuser2k12




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## scorpionx

Muhammad Omar said:


> DG ISPR said they dropped payload in JABA


He said, one payload Balakot, kpk mein gira. I wont go into details, but his theory never sounded plausible.


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## Devil Soul



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## HRK

Bratva said:


> Wasn't this purpose if IAF, to intrude little bit in Pak Airspace, jettison precise guided munitions and run away ? They were successful, no matter if PAF responded in timely matter or not. 4 PGM were successfully launched and exploded in Pakistan.


Sir what PGMs ..... the spot itself is the evidence that no precision strike was carried I mean at least I could not accept that Indian jets intrude LOC and willing bombed an unpopulated hill, for me it a clear sign of a jettison of payload in hasty manner to avoid the interception. 

As far engagement of target is concern in the age of SOW India and Pakistan could engage targets at their will *remaining well within their own boarders* so _IAF intrusion and than avoiding the PAF jets itself was a sign that they were attempting to create the media hype and point scoring rather a meaningful aerial strike_

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## VCheng

scorpionx said:


> He said, one payload Balakot, kpk mein gira. I wont go into details, but his theory never sounded plausible.



Such confusion may be intentional.


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## Sinnerman108

scorpionx said:


> I clearly doubt Pakistani military would target Indian military installations.



Yet indian military establishments will be targeted.
Whole conveys may be destroyed, 
maybe IAF will loose an awacs or 2.
a submarine may have an accident.

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## Muhammad Omar

scorpionx said:


> He said, one payload Balakot, *kpk mein gira. *I wont go into details, but his theory never sounded plausible.


The reason neighbours are making up stories of bravery


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## CHACHA"G"

HRK said:


> mere bhai can every intrusion attempt could be stop ....??? no .


Sir , can PAF try and check if IAF can stop them or not...…. This is the only way checking your theory …… 
We are not talking about some lonely Suicider here …….. We are talking about 12 M2Ks crossed the line and dropped the bombs ……. Even we saw them coming , even we have Airdefence ……. and eve we have PAF.....



HRK said:


> way around don't fall prey of Indian propaganda


to old for that ,,,,,,, and to old for DG-ISPR ……….. I am to old for air defence did not fire because M2ks did not attack military installations...


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## Mig hunter

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902261072755030-india-air-strike-pakistan/


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## Arsalan 345

CHACHA"G" said:


> Sir , can PAF try and check if IAF can stop them or not...…. This is the only way checking your theory ……
> We are not talking about some lonely Suicider here …….. We are talking about 12 M2Ks crossed the line and dropped the bombs ……. Even we saw them coming , even we have Airdefence ……. and eve we have PAF.....



it's not possible now to send fighter jets in indian airspace.we must use standoff weapons like laser bombs or raad alcm.


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## unbiasedopinion

Taimoor Khan said:


> The intrusion was only 3~4 miles, and when interception was imminent, IAF jets jettisoned their payload and did the runner. its the payload which made the distance and hit some random peak.


Chalo ji..Apki baaat maan li..it was just 3-4 miles only and IAF jets gone back after seeing PAF if that makes you happy..Why to make noise in national assembly? Be happy you guys able to make IAF planes run away thus securing your border with timely action!

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## scorpionx

VCheng said:


> Such confusion may be intentional.


I watched his conference again. Did you notice two things?
1.PM ne kaha tha agar hindustan ne hamla kiya to.....Pakistan retaliate karega. Toh hamla to aapne kiya hi nehi.
2. apne intrusion ki koshish ki, humne retaliate kiya.
I know I dont need to say anything more

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## PurpleButcher

Jut wondering if DG ISPR had not tweeted about Balakot, and rest of the story of IAF only intruding 3-4 kms had alone been the case, one wonders if Indians would have claimed a strike?

They might not even have known where their bombs fell .... It seems a mistake on part of DG ISPR in hindsight!


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## VCheng

scorpionx said:


> I watched his conference again. Did you notice two things?
> 1.PM ne kaha tha agar hindustan ne hamla kiya to.....Pakistan retaliate karega. Toh hamla to aapne kiya hi nehi.
> 2. apne intrusion ki koshish ki, humne retaliate kiya.
> I know I dont need to say anything more



Sometimes obfuscation is a useful tactic, that is all I can say.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100414235031437314



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100420987718385665


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## HRK

CHACHA"G" said:


> Sir , can PAF try and check if IAF can stop them or not...…. This is the only way checking your theory ……
> We are not talking about some lonely Suicider here …….. We are talking about 12 M2Ks crossed the line and dropped the bombs ……. Even we saw them coming , even we have Airdefence ……. and eve we have PAF.....
> 
> 
> to old for that ,,,,,,, and to old for DG-ISPR ……….. I am to old for air defence did not fire because M2ks did not attack military installations...


first thing bhai stop calling me Sir ..... I always emphasis that we all are equal

now as I said in my post quoted below


HRK said:


> As far engagement of target is concern in the age of SOW India and Pakistan could engage targets at their will *remaining well within their own boarders* so _IAF intrusion and than avoiding the PAF jets itself was a sign that they were attempting to create the media hype and point scoring rather a meaningful aerial strike_


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## My-Analogous

Thank you Modi to give us license to attack anywhere in India and no one asked us now why?. Thank you again

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## Taimoor Khan

unbiasedopinion said:


> Chalo ji..Apki baaat maan li..it was just 3-4 miles only and IAF jets gone back after seeing PAF if that makes you happy..Why to make noise in national assembly? Be happy you guys able to make IAF planes run away thus securing your border with timely action!




India has shown the audacity to challenge our sovereignty and now must pay the consequences. Simple equation mate.

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## Winchester

This sums it up 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100350354493972481

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## ghazi52




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## CHACHA"G"

Arsalan 345 said:


> it's not possible now to send fighter jets in indian airspace.we must use standoff weapons like laser bombs or raad alcm.


According to some fanboys here , it will not effect india if we send PAF …… because they (iaf) came and only hit trees ……. so our airdefence and paf sis nothing …… I guess we can do the same !!!!!!!
LOL
On serious note: We have to upgrade our Air Defence system ….. On war Footing …… We have to court marshal some ……….. ……. We have to buy J-10s ………… Try to get more F-16s ….. And have to work day an night on JF-17 block III (the real deal) …….. 
Accept the truth ……. our only chance of retaliation was shooting down intruders , we missed that …….. Now if we enter IOK or If we cross IB ,,,,,, No one will support us and we will lose …..
Just check international community ……. "No one condemned India " let me know if some one(country) did ,...…. I am not aware of any ..

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## Zulfiqar

Following is being attributed to a former Retd 3 star in PA.


India is escalating hostilities to see where it can go. Our rhetorical responses may convince him of our lack of political and military will. Seeing a weak resolve India may attempt a limited military conflict/surgical strike. It may be a serious miscalculation where the probability of a full scale mobilisation and war will be very high. The logic to the present situation:

1. Deterrance is a mindset and never a tangible posture. Its an outcome of a possibility.

2. Continual Indian claims of cross border initiatives will erode our position of deterring war through our nuclear capability.

3. Once the possibility of deterrance begins to gradually lack credibility we become more and more vulnerable to an assymetric conventional threat or be subjected to test our resolve where we may lack the will to show resolution.

4. Our response should be to escalate and push the envelope of hostilities so that nuclear war is a likely outcome and a real possibility. The deterrance then comes into play. Otherwise, we would not have ever tested our strategic potential in deterring war and would succumb to external and internal pressures exposing our own vulnerabilities.

5. Will India, that has so much to lose, go down this road? No. Arguments against this posture are that a miscalculation can lead to a nuclear exchange. Not likely and certainly a lesser probability than described above but nevertheless, the alternative is to surrender. However, it is not likely to escalate beyond reasonable boundries because the rungs in the escalation ladder are so many that signatures leading to a total war will reveal themselves well before war actually breaks out. Even then the choice must be ours to go for mutual destruction or not. There lies deterrance and not in rhetoric alone or owning a capability that you repeatedly continue to show lack of willingness to test.

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## Army research

Aa my friends, for those of you who say it was impossible to intercept such short incursion and yes while a 100% agree with that but say if russia did this in South Turkey and escaped to Syria , the Turk stand by aircraft would immediately take off and within 4 hours have struck some enemy position in Syria close to the border , 
As would any nation have, As our army does on loc if they fire smg we fire smg if they fire 130 we fire 130 if they sneak and cutt of 5 heads we sneak and cutt of 7 heads , our air force was speaking despite being in a state of readiness , that musharaff interview from a while ago from the 2000's stand off , he said he had given open instructions to the air force that if the enemy strike, Proceed to bomb already marked targets then next morning do a second strike and he sent this message on open radio , why he did this was because intelligence had given report of a limited attack in AJK region , 
No matter how much you hate mushi but he had balls of a army man, and many speculate that's why India didn't carry out that strike as it was sent to fobs on open radio for.the enemy to hear and mirages were parked on standby with full strike ordinance, 
Today we expected a attack to.come for years when modi relection near , air force was on alert , defensive air force my foot standard sop should have been prepared targets incsse of eventualities and sortie should have been launched even before the Indian aircraft had landed back , similar scale launch SOW on one of their near border ammo or gun position, capture it view sat or drone , 
But no our lazy asses First went up to the media oh look they ran away, the invited media to the site and have still done nothing expect press conf? Hopefully next morning theirs a relatiaon but to do by air is suicide now, unless like the Indians did , do a short pen release weapons and come home , No rather we should do a drone strike or guided artillery strike of good power and this time keep the bloody paf awake, or do something better , do a strike on Indian 'terrorist ' say you found ttp hide out infiltrate commandos kill 10 15 Indian or a platoon take a prisoner and come home while recording it



Zulfiqar said:


> Following is being attributed to a former Retd 3 star in PA.
> 
> 
> India is escalating hostilities to see where it can go. Our rhetorical responses may convince him of our lack of political and military will. Seeing a weak resolve India may attempt a limited military conflict/surgical strike. It may be a serious miscalculation where the probability of a full scale mobilisation and war will be very high. The logic to the present situation:
> 
> 1. Deterrance is a mindset and never a tangible posture. Its an outcome of a possibility.
> 
> 2. Continual Indian claims of cross border initiatives will erode our position of deterring war through our nuclear capability.
> 
> 3. Once the possibility of deterrance begins to gradually lack credibility we become more and more vulnerable to an assymetric conventional threat or be subjected to test our resolve where we may lack the will to show resolution.
> 
> 4. Our response should be to escalate and push the envelope of hostilities so that nuclear war is a likely outcome and a real possibility. The deterrance then comes into play. Otherwise, we would not have ever tested our strategic potential in deterring war and would succumb to external and internal pressures exposing our own vulnerabilities.
> 
> 5. Will India, that has so much to lose, go down this road? No. Arguments against this posture are that a miscalculation can lead to a nuclear exchange. Not likely and certainly a lesser probability than described above but nevertheless, the alternative is to surrender. However, it is not likely to escalate beyond reasonable boundries because the rungs in the escalation ladder are so many that signatures leading to a total war will reveal themselves well before war actually breaks out. Even then the choice must be ours to go for mutual destruction or not. There lies deterrance and not in rhetoric alone or owning a capability that you repeatedly continue to show lack of willingness to test.


Wise words from a wise man , exactly what's needed, No way India will risk nuclear war , it can't, damage them and come back


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## enquencher

Really pakistans defence minister needs sams around him to defend him.he was saying it was dark so could not c ndian fighters...are yeh kya hai kyu hai.


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## syed_yusuf

PAF should have responded by now 
i think PAF failed Pakistan by not striking back immediately, even though they did intercepted them.


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## HRK

Zulfiqar said:


> Following is being attributed to a former Retd 3 star in PA.
> 
> 
> India is escalating hostilities to see where it can go. Our rhetorical responses may convince him of our lack of political and military will. Seeing a weak resolve India may attempt a limited military conflict/surgical strike. It may be a serious miscalculation where the probability of a full scale mobilisation and war will be very high. The logic to the present situation:
> 
> 1. Deterrance is a mindset and never a tangible posture. Its an outcome of a possibility.
> 
> 2. Continual Indian claims of cross border initiatives will erode our position of deterring war through our nuclear capability.
> 
> 3. Once the possibility of deterrance begins to gradually lack credibility we become more and more vulnerable to an assymetric conventional threat or be subjected to test our resolve where we may lack the will to show resolution.
> 
> 4. Our response should be to escalate and push the envelope of hostilities so that nuclear war is a likely outcome and a real possibility. The deterrance then comes into play. Otherwise, we would not have ever tested our strategic potential in deterring war and would succumb to external and internal pressures exposing our own vulnerabilities.
> 
> 5. Will India, that has so much to lose, go down this road? No. Arguments against this posture are that a miscalculation can lead to a nuclear exchange. Not likely and certainly a lesser probability than described above but nevertheless, the alternative is to surrender. However, it is not likely to escalate beyond reasonable boundries because the rungs in the escalation ladder are so many that signatures leading to a total war will reveal themselves well before war actually breaks out. Even then the choice must be ours to go for mutual destruction or not. There lies deterrance and not in rhetoric alone or owning a capability that you repeatedly continue to show lack of willingness to test.


Actually after Perviaz Musharraf surrender after parliament attack in Nepal and after that reaction of Zardai government after Mumbai attack and then response of NS government throughout their tenure specially APS incident, India thinks it has all initiatives to shape the events related to Pakistan, we can not allow Pakistan to be the hostage of Indian domestic politics

Now it is not the case of RETALIATION by Pakistan, but taking the option of INITIATIVE back to Pakistan *our response must be DISPROPORTIONATE and ESCALATE the matter*

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## GDP Adil Khan Niazi

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377



A couple of things to say and ask by the way:
1- How many indian aircrafts violated LOC and tried to intrude in our air?

2- As far as i heard from DG ISPR, he added the other day we will not be surprised by any misshaping but we will make sure we will surprise you. So, i'm waiting for a befitting response somehow and looking forward to see how we surprise them.

3- Maza tou tab tha jab indian aircrafts maar giraye hotay. 

4- Glad to see Foreign minister making a clear statement that we will respond to this. Looking forward to a serious responsive message.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I think they are testing to see if our SAM are active or they are turned off
> Plus trying to calculate our response



More of a testing PM, Generals and our patience i think.



The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.



Yeah totally agreed YouTube videos are just a selling machine nothing else but believe me when we are saying don't mess with us then please don't mess with us just for the sake of elections. There are so many Muslim countries except us in the world but understand there is only one and only one hindustan. Hum daastanon se mitta dengay apko. We are 1/3rd of you so frankly we can't initiate a war on our own but yes if you tried to we will fight back.


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## Bratva

HRK said:


> Sir what PGMs ..... the spot itself is the evidence that no precision strike was carried I mean at least I could not accept that Indian jets intrude LOC and willing bombed an unpopulated hill, for me it a clear sign of a jettison of payload in hasty manner to avoid the interception.
> 
> As far engagement of target is concern in the age of SOW India and Pakistan could engage targets at their will *remaining well within their own boarders* so _IAF intrusion and than avoiding the PAF jets itself was a sign that they were attempting to create the media hype and point scoring rather a meaningful aerial strike_



If no PGM were used, then how come the bombs fell on Jabba, Balakot which is no where near LOC and The enemy only intruded 3-4 NM in to our airspace ?

I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph. But PAF mistake did cause Indian celebrations. That is the bitter pill we have to swallow. In the world of PGM and SOW, A 2-3 mint interception time is critical, they can fire or jettison the PGM well with in the minute.

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## unbiasedopinion

Taimoor Khan said:


> India has shown the audacity to challenge our sovereignty and now must pay the consequences. Simple equation mate.


Funny part is that you guys are master of changing goal posts. After pulwama we have been warning you about all retaliating angels. What was your response. Pakistan military is prepared for any Indian eventuality. 

We retaliated and invade and challenged your sovereignty. You were not able to do anything. Now you changed your goal post to that you will reply at your own will. That is future to tell, but tell me who is to be blame for this Indian adventure? Your incompetent preparedness or us that even after full warning we used the airforce that too from most sensitive area from where the response was expected always.

You should ask your army men why we were able to enter your area even if lets assume there was no damage as claimed by you but we did enter till international border deep inside. 

All these reasoning etc are not going to do much. There is not even a single country in the world where this news is condemned. i dont even see this news in chinese daily at all or may be i m missing anything?

Even if we destroy more camps deep inside the truth is currently the ball is in Pakistan court to act on terror camps before world says enough is enough and come in full support of India openly. 

Also remember UN has already stopped mentioning K word in its listing. You may send any information for your internal consumption but truth is world is fed up of your non-action on these terror camps which are causing issues around the world. 

You guys still has time to act sanely and start living in cordial environment with all neighbours. Iran, Afghanistan, India all should not have a reason to form a joint retaliation action force. It will not help the Pakistan and not the region.



enquencher said:


> Really pakistans defence minister needs sams around him to defend him.he was saying it was dark so could not c ndian fighters...are yeh kya hai kyu hai.
> View attachment 542110


Well i believe his statement was taken out of context.

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## Stealth

unbiasedopinion said:


> Funny part is that you guys are master of changing goal posts. After pulwama we have been warning you about all retaliating angels. What was your response. Pakistan military is prepared for any Indian eventuality.
> 
> We retaliated and invade and challenged your sovereignty. You were not able to do anything. Now you changed your goal post to that you will reply at your own will. That is future to tell, but tell me who is to be blame for this Indian adventure? Your incompetent preparedness or us that even after full warning we used the airforce that too from most sensitive area from where the response was expected always.
> 
> You should ask your army men why we were able to enter your area even if lets assume there was no damage as claimed by you but we did enter till international border deep inside.
> 
> All these reasoning etc are not going to do much. There is not even a single country in the world where this news is condemned. i dont even see this news in chinese daily at all or may be i m missing anything?
> 
> Even if we destroy more camps deep inside the truth is currently the ball is in Pakistan court to act on terror camps before world says enough is enough and come in full support of India openly.
> 
> Also remember UN has already stopped mentioning K word in its listing. You may send any information for your internal consumption but truth is world is fed up of your non-action on these terror camps which are causing issues around the world.
> 
> You guys still has time to act sanely and start living in cordial environment with all neighbours. Iran, Afghanistan, India all should not have a reason to form a joint retaliation action force. It will not help the Pakistan and not the region.
> 
> 
> Well i believe his statement was taken out of context.




love your all BS!

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## unbiasedopinion

My-Analogous said:


> Thank you Modi to give us license to attack anywhere in India and no one asked us now why?. Thank you again


As if you guys were not striking through non-state actors already. believe me, world will ask and put pressure on you only if you try to make any stupid move.



Stealth said:


> love your all BS!


hahha. i can see the frustration. suji ka halwa bana lo...aaj to suji bahut hongi

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## A.M.

It doesn't matter what IAF dropped or didn't drop. It also doesn't matter what they hit or didn't hit.

What matters is that there planes came into Pakistan and left untouched. That's all.

This is an egg on PAF's face and most know it. The rest is just semantics.

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## wulff

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> it does not make any difference if they struck anything or not---.
> 
> They entered pakistan controlled air space---and Paf fighters could not protect their air space---.



Thing is, this attack may actually result in funds getting diverted to where they are actually needed. Instead of purchasing toothless corvettes and secondhand howitzers, focus may shift towards procurement of SAMs, EW Equipment and heavy Air Superiority Fighters/ 5G Aircraft.

Sometimes you need a kick in the groin to stand up on your feet. As a case in point, think 1971 and how it led to 1998...

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Unless US satellite or reconnaissance imagery do not confirm indians attacks it means it is highly likely that it did not happen. It seems that this was an indian attempted strike which was not successful but did intrude into Pakistani airspace for a short while.

Also, india claims to have killed over between 200-300 terrorists in one go.....:

https://www.timesnownews.com/videos...l-strike-by-india-as-per-pakistan-media/24544

The above seems highly unlikely. Even the americans could not kill that number in one go at the height of the Iraq War.......... It looks more and more likely to be a whole made up story.



A.M. said:


> It doesn't matter what IAF dropped or didn't drop. It also doesn't matter what they hit or didn't hit.
> 
> What matters is that there planes came into Pakistan and left untouched. That's all.
> 
> This is an egg on PAF's face and most know it. The rest is just semantics.





A.M. said:


> It doesn't matter what IAF dropped or didn't drop. It also doesn't matter what they hit or didn't hit.
> 
> What matters is that there planes came into Pakistan and left untouched. That's all.
> 
> This is an egg on PAF's face and most know it. The rest is just semantics.







This is what probably happened

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100405875536125953














The Arma series is more like a platform than a first-person shooter game. The sequel of this game, Arma 3, is famous for being the origin of games such as DayZ and PUBG.


The Arma 3 mod was then called PlayerUnknown's Battle Royale, which became the game we know today. Both DayZ and PUBG started in Arma 2 and got ported over to Arma 3.


In the clip, the player is demonstrating a simulation of how an Apache Gunner Helicopter strikes Taliban forces and the capabilities of the vehicle. The Arma series has a single player campaign but also many different mods and simulations players can make.


The Arma series was developed by Czech Studio Bohemian Interactive who design simulation games such as Arma with realistic physics. Other releases include the Operation Flashpoint series and the Take On series, where you could explore Mars.


Bohemia Interactive's simulation games are reputed for being accurate and the studio has even been recruited by the US Government to make simulations for their military forces.


Be wary of fake news, the slightest lie could trigger a mass wave of fake viral content and upset many others. Governments are not likely to release footage of sensitive material so soon.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/arma-2-video-goes-viral-as-iaf-conducts-airstrikes-on-jem-camps



https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ce-strike-in-balakot/articleshow/68166991.cms


----------



## Tps43

Mentee said:


> Indians can claim whatever but it does give us an excuse to pay in kind, nae? @Tps43 @The Sandman


And we are going to do that

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## wulff

HRK said:


> Sir what PGMs ..... the spot itself is the evidence that no precision strike was carried I mean at least I could not accept that Indian jets intrude LOC and willing bombed an unpopulated hill, for me it a clear sign of a jettison of payload in hasty manner to avoid the interception.
> 
> As far engagement of target is concern in the age of SOW India and Pakistan could engage targets at their will *remaining well within their own boarders* so _IAF intrusion and than avoiding the PAF jets itself was a sign that they were attempting to create the media hype and point scoring rather a meaningful aerial strike_



The purpose of this attack was to save Modi's Election. They needed to show that he had balls. He could not afford to appear weak. And unlike in 2016, this time they needed to figure out a way to do it in a more visible way. But how can you make it more visible without actually doing a real strike?

So, fly close to the border, then just hop over a few kms to the other side, drop a couple of bombs somewhere on a hill, hit nothing meaningful to lessen the chances of a retaliatory strike or all-out war and call it a day. By the time PAF 's scrambled fighters reach you, you will be back across the border. Nobody would be hurt and there wouldn't be much reason for Pakistan to escalate.

You got your strike, nobody got hurt. Imran Khan is focusing on the economy, he is sure to look the other way.

If Pakistan had a proper SAM Network consisting of SRSAMs, MRSAMs and LRSAMs ... the intruders would not have been able to venture one mile inside Pak airspace and land in one piece even if they were to somehow instantly cross back. The reaction time and interception speed of a SAM is what makes it superior to fighter scrambles in such instances.

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## Taimoor Khan

unbiasedopinion said:


> Funny part is that you guys are master of changing goal posts. After pulwama we have been warning you about all retaliating angels. What was your response. Pakistan military is prepared for any Indian eventuality.
> 
> We retaliated and invade and challenged your sovereignty. You were not able to do anything. Now you changed your goal post to that you will reply at your own will. That is future to tell, but tell me who is to be blame for this Indian adventure? Your incompetent preparedness or us that even after full warning we used the airforce that too from most sensitive area from where the response was expected always.
> 
> You should ask your army men why we were able to enter your area even if lets assume there was no damage as claimed by you but we did enter till international border deep inside.
> 
> All these reasoning etc are not going to do much. There is not even a single country in the world where this news is condemned. i dont even see this news in chinese daily at all or may be i m missing anything?
> 
> Even if we destroy more camps deep inside the truth is currently the ball is in Pakistan court to act on terror camps before world says enough is enough and come in full support of India openly.
> 
> Also remember UN has already stopped mentioning K word in its listing. You may send any information for your internal consumption but truth is world is fed up of your non-action on these terror camps which are causing issues around the world.
> 
> You guys still has time to act sanely and start living in cordial environment with all neighbours. Iran, Afghanistan, India all should not have a reason to form a joint retaliation action force. It will not help the Pakistan and not the region.




Funny though, after losing 40 odd soldiers , all you can do is to drop some bombs on empty hill tops.

Now we have accessed the situation, and made clear that its not matter of if but when the retaliation will come, you just fasten your seats belt in India and be on edge of whats coming your way.

Along with usual suspects, no one has bought Indian drama over Pulwama and non will do that towards these Indian shenangians and no one will be interested to what Pakistan will do to India now. 

And there is no "deep inside" sunshine. its only 3-4 miles intrusion and normally there is no shooting down of enemy jets giving them benefit of doubt. Its a normal SOP. India took advantage of this SOP but now rest assured will pay the price.

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## Osiris

Taimoor Khan said:


> Funny though, after losing 40 odd soldiers , all you can do is to drop some bombs on empty hill tops.
> 
> Now we have accessed the situation, and made clear that its not matter of if but when the retaliation will come, you just fasten your seats belt in India and be on edge of whats coming your way.
> 
> Along with usual suspects, no one has bought Indian drama over Pulwama and non will do that towards these Indian shenangians and no one will be interested to what Pakistan will do to India now.
> 
> And there is no "deep inside" sunshine. its only 3-4 miles intrusion and normally there is no shooting down of enemy jets giving them benefit of doubt. Its a normal SOP. India took advantage of this SOP but now rest assured will pay the price.



Ok..talk when it happens.


----------



## Rocky25

Taimoor Khan said:


> Funny though, after losing 40 odd soldiers , all you can do is to drop some bombs on empty hill tops.
> 
> Now we have accessed the situation, and made clear that its not matter of if but when the retaliation will come, you just fasten your seats belt in India and be on edge of whats coming your way.
> 
> Along with usual suspects, no one has bought Indian drama over Pulwama and non will do that towards these Indian shenangians and no one will be interested to what Pakistan will do to India now.
> 
> And there is no "deep inside" sunshine. its only 3-4 miles intrusion and normally there is no shooting down of enemy jets giving them benefit of doubt. Its a normal SOP. India took advantage of this SOP but now rest assured will pay the price.



Deny all you want and We are waiting!


----------



## wulff

Taimoor Khan said:


> Funny though, *after losing 40 odd soldiers* , all you can do is to drop some bombs on empty hill tops.
> 
> Now we have accessed the situation, and made clear that its not matter of if but when the retaliation will come, you just fasten your seats belt in India and be on edge of whats coming your way.
> 
> Along with usual suspects, no one has bought Indian drama over Pulwama and non will do that towards these Indian shenangians and no one will be interested to what Pakistan will do to India now.
> 
> And there is no "deep inside" sunshine. its only 3-4 miles intrusion and normally there is no shooting down of enemy jets giving them benefit of doubt. Its a normal SOP. India took advantage of this SOP but now rest assured will pay the price.



*49*. *To be exact.*

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## Taimoor Khan

Osiris said:


> Ok..talk when it happens.



Ofcourse, the commitments of retaliatory strikes have come from highest level. You should start the count down in India.



Rocky25 said:


> Deny all you want and We are waiting!




Have your Airforce release the pics and vidoes of the damage assesments? LOL

Jokers.

And yes, you don't have to wait long, its coming.

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## Osiris

Taimoor Khan said:


> Ofcourse, the commitments of retaliatory strikes have come from highest level. You should start the count down in India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have your Airforce release the pics and vidoes of the damage assesments? LOL
> 
> Jokers.
> 
> And yes, you don't have to wait long, its coming.



Ok, we are waiting.


----------



## Stealth

unbiasedopinion said:


> As if you guys were not striking through non-state actors already. believe me, world will ask and put pressure on you only if you try to make any stupid move.
> 
> 
> hahha. i can see the frustration. suji ka halwa bana lo...aaj to suji bahut hongi



hamainzarorat nahe parti kyonkay hamain reality ki pata hey aur dunya ko bhi... masla aap ka hey aap jesi kom ko kyo modi Chay bana raha hey uske waja aap ke post batarahe hain


----------



## Rocky25

Taimoor Khan said:


> Have your Airforce release the pics and vidoes of the damage assesments? LOL
> 
> Jokers.
> 
> And yes, you don't have to wait long, its coming.



We are jokers... so you are responding to jokers? The mighty Pak FM cannot show the place because of bad weather says it all!


----------



## maximuswarrior

LOL Indians jerking off like they have conquered Pakistan.

Flew a jet for a couple of minutes in our territory and all they could do is empty their bombs over an empty forest.

Indian celebrations will be shortlived. Now it is our turn. We will decide the time and place.

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## Taimoor Khan

Osiris said:


> Ok, we are waiting.



You should.


----------



## Joe Shearer

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Indians jerking off like they have conquered Pakistan.
> 
> Flew a jet for a couple of minutes in our territory and all they could do is empty their bombs over an empty forest.
> 
> Indian celebrations will be shortlived. Now it is our turn. We will decide the time and place.




Long flight from Holland. Good luck.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Rocky25 said:


> We are jokers... so you are responding to jokers? The mighty Pak FM cannot show the place because of bad weather says it all!




You dropped the bombs, you should have target information and super duper satellite imagery from ISRO. For what day you send all the satellites for? Show the world and try to debunk Pakistan! I heard Indian debriefing only lasted 3 minutes with no Q&A session . LOL.

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## Armani

Taimoor Khan said:


> Ofcourse, the commitments of retaliatory strikes have come from highest level. You should start the count down in India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have your Airforce release the pics and vidoes of the damage assesments? LOL
> 
> Jokers.
> 
> And yes, you don't have to wait long, its coming.



Oh we want you to retaliate. I think whole point of these strikes was to provoke Pakistan into starting a war out of internal compulsions when we are on high alert and without element of surprise such a misadventure is going to end very very badly for Pakistan.

But given how ISPR and your govt. is talking, I think you want to remove any internal compulsion forcing your hand to start a war. Hence downplaying severity of event.

Pakistani military is not in any position to start a conventional war and hope to win.

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## Foxtrot Delta

GBU-12 dropped has 16 km glide radius. So they were dropped 16 km away from balakot towards loc. Meaning near muzaffarabad skies.

Bombs glided into khyber pakhtoon khuwa.

Too bad they dropped bombs on pakhtoons instead of kashmiriz.

I still think they missed a kashmiri mountain top and bombs glided missed top landed in pakhtoon region.

If it was not GBU-12 then with more range weapons they might have dropped bombs while with in indian occupied kashmir.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Taimoor Khan said:


> You should.



Re-started watch with countdown four times now...........................

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## Armani

Foxtrot Delta said:


> GBU-12 dropped has 16 km glide radius. So they were dropped 16 km away from balakot towards loc. Meaning near muzaffarabad skies.
> 
> Bombs glided into khyber pakhtoon khuwa.
> 
> Too bad they dropped bombs on pakhtoons instead of kashmiriz.
> 
> I still think they missed a kashmiri mountain top and bombs glided missed top landed in pakhtoon region.



All news indicate SPICE-2000, not GBU.


----------



## ghazi52



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## Taimoor Khan

Armani said:


> Oh we want you to retaliate. I think whole point of these strikes was to provoke Pakistan into starting a war out of internal compulsions when we are on high alert and without element of surprise such a misadventure is going to end very very badly for Pakistan.
> 
> But given how ISPR and your govt. is talking, I think you want to remove any internal compulsion forcing your hand to start a war. Hence downplaying severity of event.
> 
> Pakistani military is not in any position to start a conventional war and hope to win.



Oh don't worry, we just have to hit some Hindu terrorist infra like RSS and that would do. Coz that's what you tried to do on our side in your own wisdom. That will keep things in balance. I think that will do the trick and embrass the Hindu terrorist regime, if their vote base is hit.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Armani said:


> All news indicate SPICE-2000, not GBU.



Spice 2000 is 900 kg makes sense what is its maximum/optimun glide radius? Or does it free fall down?


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## ghazi52




----------



## Taimoor Khan

Armani said:


> All news indicate SPICE-2000, not GBU.




Ah I see. had a hunch it would be Israeli weapon. Shame, its missed miserably.


----------



## Rocky25

Taimoor Khan said:


> You dropped the bombs, you should have target information and super duper satellite imagery from ISRO. For what day you send all the satellites for? Show the world and try to debunk Pakistan! I heard Indian debriefing only lasted 3 minutes with no Q&A session . LOL.



Don't change the topic... If we are jokers.. why are you getting provoked and chest thumping that you will strike back! THe logic is missing somewhere right?


----------



## Devil Soul

*Pakistan to boycott the meeting of OIC in which indian FM is invited as a Honorary Chief Guest : PAK FM*


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Taimoor Khan said:


> Ah I see. had a hunch it would be Israeli weapon. Shame, its missed miserably.



Haste makes waste. Im still wondering about its max range. No range statistics online. Could be a free wall weapon



Devil Soul said:


> *Pakistan to boycott the meeting of OIC in which indian FM is invited as a Honorary Chief Guest : PAK FM*



That was to happen regardless of air intrusion today


----------



## Armani

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Spice 2000 is 900 kg makes sense what is its maximum/optimun glide radius? Or does it free fall down?



It glides out to 100km maximum range.


----------



## HRK

Bratva said:


> If no PGM were used, then how come the bombs fell on Jabba, Balakot which is no where near LOC and The enemy only intruded 3-4 NM in to our airspace ?


First as I said


> *I could not accept that Indian jets intrude LOC and willing bombed an unpopulated hill*, for me it a clear sign of a jettison of payload in hasty manner to avoid the interception.


This particular question could be answered if The radar tracking is released as the point of release of payload could not be determine as of now, _even If we assume they used PGM jets must have used Lighting precision guidance pod with which Indian Mirage-2000 are integrated so India must release the video of their bombing on targets_

have they release it ...???


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Armani said:


> It glides out to 100km maximum range.



O well they could have fired it from outskirts kf srinagar and reached their target easily. Balakot patoonkhua is 57 km away from LOC closest point. Heck they could have bombed abbotabad even if 100 km is the range.. Even from with in indian occupied kashmir.

But ispr says they intruded 3 to 4 miles inside.. I trust DGISPR.



HRK said:


> First as I said
> 
> This particular question could be answered if The radar tracking is released as the point of release of payload could not be determine as of now



Does a radar detect small munitions in air?


----------



## HRK

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Does a radar detect small munitions in air?


don't they track the jets ....???


----------



## Armani

Taimoor Khan said:


> Ah I see. had a hunch it would be Israeli weapon. Shame, its missed miserably.



Looking at the official narrative being built by your govt, it's not like you would admit it even if otherwise.

If I was you...I'd pray it didn't miss. Because if Israeli PGM (which is US tech for all intents & purposes) is likely to miss...imagine plight of Chinese wares. 



Foxtrot Delta said:


> O well they could have fired it from outskirts kf srinagar and reached their target easily. Balakot patoonkhua is 57 km away from LOC closest point. Heck they could have bombed abbotabad even if 100 km is the range.. Even from with in indian occupied kashmir.
> 
> But ispr says they intruded 3 to 4 miles inside.. I trust DGISPR.



Just because something has max range of 100km doesn't mean it will always be released at 100km. It depends on mission profile.

This particular mission from the looks of it seems like was conducted by Mirages flying between valleys & mountains to avoid early detection, and only targeted & released payloads during final stage of incursion, where they rapidly gain altitude to bring the targets into line of sight of the laser-targeting pods like LITENING.

On the other hand if there was a Special Forces team on the ground inside KP painting the target with laser, then the Mirages could have released payload inside J&K airspace itself and the PGM would have found its own way, guided in terminal stage by the laser from ground team.


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

HRK said:


> don't they track the jets ....???


Munitions are very small....


----------



## SABRE

Been listening to Shah Mahmood Qureshi's interview with Shahzeb Khanzada. First thing first, Shah Mahmood has a personality and an aptitude to be the FM but the way he talks just puts you to sleep. The guy should speak up properly. He is not talking to kindergarten children. He says he will not go to OIC if the Indian FM shows up. We are making a big mistake here. OIC is our backyard & the best place to grab the Indian FM by the throat there. By not going we'll be imposing self-isolation on ourselves, be it only for a one-off event. Why give India another drum to beat?


----------



## HRK

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Munitions are very small....


bhai I am talking about Jets not munition


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

SABRE said:


> Been listening to Shah Mahmood Qureshi's interview with Shahzeb Khanzada. First thing first, Shah Mahmood has a personality and an aptitude to be the FM but the way he talks just puts you to sleep. The guy should speak up properly. He is not talking to kindergarten children. He says he will not go to OIC if the Indian FM shows up. We are making a big mistake here. OIC is our backyard & the best place to grab the Indian FM by the throat there. By not going we'll be imposing self-isolation on ourselves, be it only for a one-off event. Why give India another drum to beat?



He is signaling the arabs and other big shots un group. They can count pakistan out if india comes at any gathering of muslims.


----------



## ghazi52

*Imtiaz Gul*‏ @vogul1960

What a claim: 12 fighter aircraft, dropped a mere 1000 kg bombs, and before heading back from #Balakot they also counted 300 dead bodies in the dark of early morning. Quite a stunning script of a Bollywood film


----------



## Armani

ghazi52 said:


> *Imtiaz Gul*‏ @vogul1960
> 
> What a claim: 12 fighter aircraft, dropped a mere 1000 kg bombs, and before heading back from #Balakot they also counted 300 dead bodies in the dark of early morning. Quite a stunning script of a Bollywood film



Not 1000kg of bombs...what they released were bombs of 1000kg-class.

As of number of deaths, Indian MEA or MoD did not release any number officially. They only said a large number, rest is creation of media agencies in a bid to get more hits.


----------



## monitor

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Spice 2000 is 900 kg makes sense what is its maximum/optimun glide radius? Or does it free fall down?


The *SPICE*-1000 kit, which is available for 500kg *bombs*, has a glide *range* of nearly 100km, while the *SPICE*-*2000* (meant for 1,000kg *bombs*) has a glide *range* of around 60km

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## Armani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100304652988342272


monitor said:


> The *SPICE*-1000 kit, which is available for 500kg *bombs*, has a glide *range* of nearly 100km, while the *SPICE*-*2000* (meant for 1,000kg *bombs*) has a glide *range* of around 60km



Yes, 60km. Not 100.


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

monitor said:


> The *SPICE*-1000 kit, which is available for 500kg *bombs*, has a glide *range* of nearly 100km, while the *SPICE*-*2000* (meant for 1,000kg *bombs*) has a glide *range* of around 60km



That means they fired at very edge of LOC so that they can quickly turn back before fired upon.

They might have wanted PAF to hot pursuit them into indian kashmir and get picked off inside their controlled territory. 

3 to 4 minutes response time is not enough... An oppertunistic attack half way done.


----------



## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100249346459750400


----------



## Knight Rider

This is clearly an act of war. Their intentions were bad because they wanted to target the civilian population of Balakot and cause mass destruction and casualties. They have challenged us by violating our air space and carrying bombs and fuel tanks inside Pakistan. They must be punished immediately. Indian Election can go to hell. Time to teach them a lesson that they will never forget.

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## monitor

Foxtrot Delta said:


> That means they fired at very edge of LOC so that they can quickly turn back before fired upon.
> 
> They might have wanted PAF to hot pursuit them into indian kashmir and get picked off inside their controlled territory.
> 
> 3 to 4 minutes response time is not enough... An oppertunistic attack half way done.



that might be the possibility as @Windjammer said in another thread

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## PAR 5

I am more interested in the ‘payload’ tanks as per ISPR statement saying the Indian Mirages came in only 3-4 NM inside Pakistan near LOC whilst the found payload ‘glided’ almost 100kms inland into Pakistan falling near Jaba Balakot, KPK? Man! Never knew these dumb tin cans can fly themselves as well.


----------



## Armani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100421250038456322

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## Foxtrot Delta

PAR 5 said:


> I am more interested in the ‘payload’ tanks as per ISPR statement saying the Indian Mirages came in only 3-4 NM inside Pakistan near LOC whilst the found payload ‘glided’ almost 100kms inland into Pakistan falling near Jaba Balakot, KPK? Man! Never knew these dumb tin cans can fly themselves as well.



Payload means weapons. And its not 100 km instead 57 km


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## PAR 5

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Payload means weapons. And its not 100 km instead 57 km



Ah! Thanks ... I stand corrected on the technicalities


----------



## mshan44




----------



## ghazi52

The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) on Tuesday condemned India's violation of the Line of Control (LoC) with Pakistan earlier in the day, urging both countries to exercise restraint.

Maj-Gen Ghafoor in a tweet in the early hours of Tuesday had revealed that the "Indian Air Force violated Line of Control", following which "Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled" and the Indian aircraft went back.

"The General Secretariat of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation condemned this action against an OIC founding member state," the Organisation stated in one of a series of tweets.




OIC

✔@OIC_OCI

Reacting to #India's violation of the line of control between #Pakistan and India, the General Secretariat of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation condemned this action against an #OIC founding member state. 

562
9:30 AM - Feb 26, 2019


The Twitter statement went on to say that the OIC "condemned the Indian incursion and aerial violation and dropping of four bombs today, 26 February, 2019."

It urged both sides to "exercise restraint and avoid any steps that could endanger peace and security in the region".

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## Foxtrot Delta

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 542127



Srinagar region would be tit for tat response


----------



## mshan44




----------



## blain2

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Srinagar region would be tit for tat response



I know the ones baying for an eye for eye won't be satisfied but for Pakistan, the least amount of return (although it would be very high in public opinion) would be to to fly in and hit an isolated area and come back. For Pakistan, the main concern is Kashmir. If India claims to have hit non-state actors (all indications are that anything at scale being discussed in India is a joke), then Pakistan won't go in for an overt strike on Indian military formations. If we do then we are on the war path. For Pakistan, the Kashmir cause has to be supported and it has to be supported through avoidance of war.

This does not mean that Pakistan cannot and won't respond to Indian provocations. They know and we know we have the means and the wherewithal to do it. I state with full confidence that Pakistan will level the playing field one way or the other.

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## VCheng

blain2 said:


> I know the ones baying for an eye for eye won't be satisfied but for Pakistan, the least amount of return (although it would be very high in public opinion) would be to to fly in and hit an isolated area and come back. For Pakistan, the main concern is Kashmir. If India claims to have hit non-state actors (all indications are that anything at scale being discussed in India is a joke), then Pakistan won't go in for an overt strike on Indian military formations. If we do then we are on the war path. For Pakistan, the Kashmir cause has to be supported and it has to be supported through avoidance of war.
> 
> This does not mean that Pakistan cannot and won't respond to Indian provocations. They know and we know we have the means and the wherewithal to do it. I state with full confidence that Pakistan will level the playing field one way or the other.



For now, it is better to de-escalate, without a doubt.


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## Foxtrot Delta

VCheng said:


> For now, it is better to de-escalate, without a doubt.


De escalate talk would be seen as weakness.

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## VCheng

Foxtrot Delta said:


> De escalate talk would be seen as weakness.



Not really. Wisdom is the real strength.

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## Foxtrot Delta

VCheng said:


> Not really. Wisdom is the real strength.


My wisdom says they should be discouraged so they never think of such pptions again.

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100449532104581120


----------



## MastanKhan

Indus Pakistan said:


> Take Aways are -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100326223379685376
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100239092812574721




Hi,

When Pakistan air force---The Paf is led by COWARDS and incompetent Generals---this is what the result would be---.

Lie Lies Lies---.

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## VCheng

Foxtrot Delta said:


> My wisdom says they should be discouraged so they never think of such pptions again.



Let us trust the wisdom of PMIK and his government on this one, shall we.


----------



## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100446449916133377


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

VCheng said:


> Let us trust the wisdom of PMIK and his government on this one, shall we.


Ofcourse he is the man incharge. Whatever he desides we pakistaniz follow him.


----------



## blain2

Foxtrot Delta said:


> De escalate talk would be seen as weakness.


Yes you run the risk. As I have said before too, the policy for Kashmir has to be long term. Getting into an open conflagaration is not the right way for Pakistan. Conventional isn't the only way to respond.

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## mshan44

Even new york times is not buying indian story

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## VCheng

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Ofcourse he is the man incharge. Whatever he desides we pakistaniz follow him.



Exactly. And thus far, he is silent. There is wisdom in that, surely.


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100446449916133377



No one is stopping them. They are brothers. They can even pinpoint location our pakistani ballistic missiles can be fired on those positions as well. 

Iran isn't an enemy rather a brotherly muslim country. 

U cant set us on fire against irani people. We are not dumb.

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## hembo

balixd said:


> you can see I never rated anyone on this thread with red, you called out my country, calling the entire country powerless.....that meets the criteria for rating any post as negative.....and i do not like to see such posts.....i can counter something only when there is something to counter.....there was nothing in your post but usual trolling and rant.....



How about a post calling an entire religiius entity of 1 billion powerless or shemales?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/dg-i...line-of-control.604031/page-102#post-11206795


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## Knight Rider

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 542130


Zabardast maro inko.


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

mshan44 said:


> Even new york times is not buying indian story
> View attachment 542132
> View attachment 542136
> View attachment 542137
> View attachment 542138




Who cares if americans buy it or not. Dg ispr said they intruded and dropped bombs.. We trust him. We need a reply to india.


----------



## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100371019624271872

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## Foxtrot Delta

Airforce jets sound can be heard over muzaffarabad 11:40 pm local time.


----------



## Armani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100464197132042240


----------



## maithil

China calls for restraint from both sides.Franceand Australia openly sided with India. Understandable in case of China, they have to protect their investment in Pakistan. Especially when they now know how incredibly capable PAF is.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Armani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100464197132042240



American whore paid by Indian lobbies LOL

U.S. India Policy Studies
@CSIS at @Bloombergquint


We will see what the “world” does when Pakistan responds and takes out the Indians like flies.


----------



## INDIAPOSITIVE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100446449916133377


----------



## Great Janjua

kahonapyarhai said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100446449916133377


Tussi vi khalo kheer

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## maximuswarrior

kahonapyarhai said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100446449916133377



LOL let the Iranians try that. I am waiting.


----------



## cleverrider

VCheng said:


> Not really. Wisdom is the real strength.



History remebers the brave, better.


----------



## YeBeWarned

seeing at current situation in Pakistan, I wont be surprised if even Afghanistan cross border and attack Pakistan .

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## Foxtrot Delta

Check out @ZaidZamanHamid’s Tweet:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100478748116299788

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## MastanKhan

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377



Hi,

Gen Ghafoor---Why were air craft scrambled---why were they not in the air in the first place---.

Your awacs saw them coming---then why were you not ready.

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## maithil

This fellow is Pakistani Bhaghdad Bob/ Comical Ali. Giving all sort of weird explanations. IK should at least fire him. He is a really low hanging fruit.

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## Count Dracula

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL let the Iranians try that. I am waiting.


You are waiting to ambush them, out here, on pdf?


----------



## Darth Vader

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Gen Ghafoor---Why were air craft scrambled---why were they not in the air in the first place---.
> 
> Your awacs saw them coming---then why were you not ready.


Bachkana sawal hai
No air force in world can maintain 24×7 sorite with 100 % of its force
You will always have small cap units in air for respond which Paf did


And i dont think paf currently posses hyper jump tech of aliens

Man this is not the item of yelling and causing confusion stand ready all these can be discussed after situation gets better

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Check out @ZaidZamanHamid’s Tweet:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100478748116299788



I wouldn’t believe a word he says. He has a very dark history. He is a known liar.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I wouldn’t believe a word he says. He has a very dark history. He is a known liar.



He has PTSD and is a nut job and has very dark side indeed

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## Foxtrot Delta

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I wouldn’t believe a word he says. He has a very dark history. He is a known liar.



Fair enough.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Count Dracula said:


> You are waiting to ambush them, out here, on pdf?



Iranians won’t attack because they don’t want to get dragged into this mess.

They know the reaction of Pakistan will be severe and Iran gains nothing.

Indians can claim everyone will support India, but right now you are completely on your own.

Even NYT rubbished your claims as an pre-election stunt.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Iranians won’t attack because they don’t want to get dragged into this mess.
> 
> They know the reaction of Pakistan will be severe and Iran gains nothing.
> 
> Indians can claim everyone will support India, but right now you are completely on your own.
> 
> Even NYT rubbished your claims as an pre-election stunt.



The mix emotions on PDF is making me even more confused of course the whole Pulwama Bollywood film in process is for the BJP to win in a landslide as for Iran attacking Us Highly doubtful as it would entail a geo-political crisis Iran does not need when under heavy US sanctions

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## Jinn Baba

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Check out @ZaidZamanHamid’s Tweet:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100478748116299788



One of these pilots needs to press fire and become a national hero!!!


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> He has PTSD and is a nut job and has very dark side indeed



Dr. Israr said he was the “Khalifah/Abu Bakr” of Yussuf Kazzab. Since then he re-invented himself as a hyper patriot. He never fought in Afghanistan, it’s a lie.

There are even court records to prove it with the name Zaid Zaman, and he gave witness for Yussuf Kazzab.

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## MastanKhan

Darth Vader said:


> Bachkana sawal hai
> No air force in world can maintain 24×7 sorite with 100 % of its force
> You will always have small cap units in air for respond which Paf did
> 
> 
> And i dont think paf currently posses hyper jump tech of aliens
> 
> Man this is not the item of yelling and causing confusion stand ready all these can be discussed after situation gets better



Hi,

But they do have awacs---.


----------



## indian my friend

Count Dracula said:


> You are waiting to ambush them, out here, on pdf?


Lol


----------



## Yankee-stani

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/142913/Iran-calls-for-restraint-as-India-Pakistan-tension-heightens

No sigh from Official Iranian press about an immient attack by Iran

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## Darth Vader

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> But they do have awacs---.


Awacs is a power full eye but it also has its limitations , 1 or 2 awacs cant cover whole of india Pak border
It can provide Intel to other force cant physical challenge fighter planes

If you heard the briefing india tried 2 different sectors which were intercepted and they stayed inside indian territory
3rd one was able to enter ( i know that blame lies with paf they should have destroyed that air craft )
But as i said not the time

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## mshan44

Sialkot Now

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100449532104581120



Independent source verification or else
It didn’t happen.

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## Jinn Baba

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Independent source verification or else
> It didn’t happen.



Heard on ARY. Pak FM said that he cannot sit on a chair next to Indian FM, so if she attends, he would not.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

mshan44 said:


> Sialkot Now
> View attachment 542161
> View attachment 542162



Good start. Hammer the fasiqs.

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## GBU-28

Pakistan acting like the victim, but it's they who 'ignore' training camps on their land for terrorists. This is exactly what Afghanistan did too, before the US went in.

You're the aggressors in this scenario.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Great Janjua

GBU-28 said:


> Pakistan acting like the victim, but it's they who 'ignore' training camps on their land for terrorists. This is exactly what Afghanistan did too, before the US went in.
> 
> You're the aggressors in this scenario.


Guess what ground realities are different to your made up bullshit and no one can dismantle pakistan and if we were on the verge off collapse we would take our enemies with us no matter how we do it, Your day dreams are only dreams until someone comes along and slaps you up from your slumber


----------



## Signalian

mshan44 said:


> Sialkot Now
> View attachment 542161
> View attachment 542162


This isn't how an artillery battery is usually set up in state of war.

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## HRK

Signalian said:


> This isn't how an artillery battery is usually set up in state of war.


old pics, specially this one 





I thinks its a pic of 14th August guns salute

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## Signalian

HRK said:


> old pics


Yeah makes sense now



Foxtrot Delta said:


> Check out @ZaidZamanHamid’s Tweet:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100478748116299788


Honestly, any PAF pilot in contact with Zaid Hamid is at a risk of losing his job,though the point of IAF aircraft debris falling inside India will cause bigger problems for Pakistan.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Sound of multiple aircraft over muzaffarabad city since past 30 minutes.. Allah Hu Akbar.
Its not stopping this time


----------



## Path-Finder

Adeel Raja exposes India's exaggerated claims of dropping 1000 kg bomb and killing over 300 people. He reached the site, clicked some photographs to take the final veil off the lies.


































__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100477180310630400


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100479443242500096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100297593874202624

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## jacklord

If Indian jets intruded deep inside pak its not going to happen without help of unwelcome guests who have this tech to jam radars. India can't take pak down alone there is pack behind them and I am sure defenders of pak fully aware of this game plan.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Areesh said:


> There are two balakot genius. One in kpk. Second in ajk.
> 
> You dropped hastily your payloads on balakot in ajk. Not kpk
> 
> Learn the difference


 Are your denied DGISPR first tweet sir they said in Muzafarabad sector???, other is way down in south @Areesh 


Areesh said:


> Obviously no video or picture from that kpk balakot exists.
> 
> And we all know why


At 3:00 what do you expect, you're in face saving mode sir, you can't get off your eyes from reality that IAF intrude drop some bombs whether in hurry or not and went safely, its a total failure of PAF/air defense command sir, we talk tall and don't react in time when needed, where our AWACS/SAMs/Long range radars were, sleeping @Areesh 


Areesh said:


> Balakot is a divided village. Right on loc
> 
> Dg ISPR also said that they released payload while exiting.
> 
> Obviously IAF can't exit from balakot in kpk.
> 
> Use common sense guys.


Are your denied DGISPR first tweet sir they said in Muzafarabad sector???, other is way down in south @Areesh 


pakdefender said:


> Oy Chutiyay , first Jaba and Kangar are in Azad Kashmir and not in KPK
> 
> Second what this man is saying that some random houses were damaged in the blast. Which confirms what DG ISPR said , that india did try to do an intrusion , got detected and jettisoned the ordnance quickly before running back.
> 
> What this man's account confirms is that IAF just dropped some ordnance near Kanagar , Azad Kashmir over civilian houses and then ran away when then got detected. What the man is saying that 5 house were damaged and 1 person go injured.
> 
> So thanks for posting this video , it does confirm that india did the intrusion and randomly dropped 3-4 bombs which hit 4 or 5 civilian houses and 1 person got injured , this is what this man is saying.
> 
> 
> It strengthens Pakistan's position and will make retaliation against India that much more easier to package and execute


Do you denying DGISPR first tweet that IAF jets intrude Muzafarabad sector, other is way down in south @pakdefender


----------



## HRK

Path-Finder said:


> Adeel Raja exposes India's exaggerated claims of dropping 1000 kg bomb and killing over 300 people. He reached the site, clicked some photographs to take the final veil off the lies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100477180310630400
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100479443242500096
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100297593874202624



this pic will give the idea of real damage of Marriott hotel attack

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## Jinn Baba

jacklord said:


> If Indian jets intruded deep inside pak its not going to happen without help of unwelcome guests who have this tech to jam radars. India can't take pak down alone there is pack behind them and I am sure defenders of pak fully aware of this game plan.



PAF detected them, it was the third set of IAF aircraft that they detected and went to intercept. There is no indication so far that IAF jammed PAF radars.


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## BATMAN

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Shouldn't this clown named SMQ be more concerned about violation of Pakistan's sovereignty, rather than telling us all of Modi's doing is for domestic consumption!

Does PTI have one serious and sensible person in parliament ? and i don't have good feeling seeing clowns sitting at the National Security level meeting.


----------



## Novice09

jacklord said:


> If Indian jets intruded deep inside pak its not going to happen without help of unwelcome guests who have this tech to jam radars. India can't take pak down alone there is pack behind them and I am sure defenders of pak fully aware of this game plan.





Jinn Baba said:


> PAF detected them, it was the third set of IAF aircraft that they detected and went to intercept. There is no indication so far that IAF jammed PAF radars.



You are again underestimating the capabilities of IAF in electronic warfare...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## BATMAN

Novice09 said:


> You are again underestimating the capabilities of IAF in electronic warfare...


Which you acquired last night in your dreams.


----------



## Jinn Baba

Novice09 said:


> You are again underestimating the capabilities of IAF in electronic warfare...



Not underestimating, just stating that there is no indication so far that radars were successfully jammed. If there is evidence to suggest that they did jam radars, please share it.


----------



## Rasengan

Novice09 said:


> You are again underestimating the capabilities of IAF in electronic warfare...



You haven't killed a single Pakistani soldier or civilian. But the Kashmiri who had explosives packed with cow lard took out 40 Indian soldiers. Don't worry tonight's shelling will have premium cow lard to destroy those Indian bunkers.

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## Novice09

BATMAN said:


> Which you acquired last night in your dreams.



But I heard that PAF was sleeping...
No issues, we don't have any capabilities at all... the I in IAF was Israel...

You are welcome...



Rasengan said:


> You haven't killed a single Pakistani soldier or civilian. But the Kashmiri who had explosives packed with cow lard took out 40 Indian soldiers. Don't worry tonight's shelling will have premium cow lard to destroy those Indian bunkers.



Just ask your Army to publish the casualties on Indian border... and then we will try to COMPARE...

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## Rasengan

Novice09 said:


> Just ask your Army to publish the casualties on Indian border... and then we will try to COMPARE...



Have patience, the time will come when the wailing across India will begin as Indian soliders shall be sent home for burial. 40 Indian soliders are dead compare to zero Pakistani soldiers. You don't have to be a mathematician to work out who comes out on top.

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## jacklord

I remember pak shot down 2 mig 23 during kargil with shoulder Sam if they fly so low how they missed manned Sam? The biggest regret all 12 got home safely not in coffins and debris.

War is deadly but unfortunately or fortunately Pakistan is doing it since 1971.

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## notorious_eagle

Novice09 said:


> You are again underestimating the capabilities of IAF in electronic warfare...



Although this is not the case, but if what you're saying is true, the Americans will be flying over right now to Pakistan because this would be an absolute embarrassment for the Americans.

Also, if the IAF had successfully employed EW, IAF strike package would have loitered over Pakistan's territory for far longer and would not have immediately been intercepted by PAF.

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## Stealth

Novice09 said:


> You are again underestimating the capabilities of IAF in electronic warfare...



Guess What experts on BBC and France state televison said the same thing that India is lacking in warfare so obviously for the intelligence and EW, United States help them but they got intercepted lol

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## The wheel of time

GDP Adil Khan Niazi said:


> Yeah totally agreed YouTube videos are just a selling machine nothing else but believe me when we are saying don't mess with us then please don't mess with us just for the sake of elections. There are so many Muslim countries except us in the world but understand there is only one and only one hindustan. Hum daastanon se mitta dengay apko. We are 1/3rd of you so frankly we can't initiate a war on our own but yes if you tried to we will fight back.



Oh comeon now, every pakistani has just two things to say, first that they have ruled us for thousand years and second that they can fight a nuclear war with us coz there are so many moslem nations in the world. 

Coming to the first thing, I do not know who pakistanis think that they are, arabs, turks or religious converts. Actually you are the people with serious identity crisis. Some of you say that there was no India before 1947 and then you people claim that you have ruled India for 1000 years. The thing is you people are nothing, and clowns like jaid hamid sooth your tiny ego by telling you bs like the above.

Coming to the second part, if you people yourself believed what you say even a bit, you would have fought a nuclear war with us decades ago. And you are not one third of us but lesser than one fifth. get you figures right. And we wouldn care if there are moslem nation out there or not, we will just make sure that not even a single living cell survives in pakistan. And as far as fighting back is concerned, apart from few terrorist attacks you cannot do anything, you will run out of land to run away if we decide to come after you.

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## Ali0625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100574559210598401


----------



## JamD

There's one thing that none of the posters seem to have noticed in DG ISPR's press conference. I think it is telling.

He narrates that the first Indian flight approached in Lahore/Sialkot area (now we know decoy), and the CAP flight was vectored to them. As soon as the Pakistan team were vectored another Pakistani CAP flight took off, which went on to challenge the second Indian flight (another decoy) down south. After this DG ISPR is a little unclear but it sounds like an awful lot like this:
PAF had 2 CAP teams, one in air and on the ground, and the third one needed to challenge the actual Indian flight wasn't ready to launch, and hence the third Indian flight had plenty of time to ingress.

The Indians probably knew our procedures PRETTY well and they planned the operation well. Unfortunately, it seems we weren't doing enough CAP. It almost sounds like there was only one Pakistani CAP flight in the air at a time (Central Air Command) and there were no CAPs or aircraft ready to launch in the north (Northern Air Command).

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## WaLeEdK2

JamD said:


> There's one thing that none of the posters seem to have noticed in DG ISPR's press conference. I think it is telling.
> 
> He narrates that the first Indian flight approached in Lahore/Sialkot area (now we know decoy), and the CAP flight was vectored to them. As soon as the Pakistan team were vectored another Pakistani CAP flight took off, which went on to challenge the second Indian flight (another decoy) down south. After this DG ISPR is a little unclear but it sounds like an awful lot like this:
> PAF had 2 CAP teams, one in air and on the ground, and the third one needed to challenge the actual Indian flight wasn't ready to launch, and hence the third Indian flight had plenty of time to ingress.
> 
> The Indians probably knew our procedures PRETTY well and they planned the operation well. Unfortunately, it seems we weren't doing enough CAP. It almost sounds like there was only one Pakistani CAP flight in the air at a time (Central Air Command) and there were no CAPs or aircraft ready to launch in the north (Northern Air Command).



I have a question. If they had lots of time then why didn’t they do damage to actual infrastructure.

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Stealth

JamD said:


> There's one thing that none of the posters seem to have noticed in DG ISPR's press conference. I think it is telling.
> 
> He narrates that the first Indian flight approached in Lahore/Sialkot area (now we know decoy), and the CAP flight was vectored to them. As soon as the Pakistan team were vectored another Pakistani CAP flight took off, which went on to challenge the second Indian flight (another decoy) down south. After this DG ISPR is a little unclear but it sounds like an awful lot like this:
> PAF had 2 CAP teams, one in air and on the ground, and the third one needed to challenge the actual Indian flight wasn't ready to launch, and hence the third Indian flight had plenty of time to ingress.
> 
> The Indians probably knew our procedures PRETTY well and they planned the operation well. Unfortunately, it seems we weren't doing enough CAP. It almost sounds like there was only one Pakistani CAP flight in the air at a time (Central Air Command) and there were no CAPs or aircraft ready to launch in the north (Northern Air Command).


Well concluded it shows the level of preparedness thatswhy i called for PAF Chief resignation


----------



## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100024312642170880


If you thought this year's iconic Best Actor Award was bagged by Rami Malek for his stellar performance in the Bohemian Rhapsody, you are wrong!

It is in fact Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi who in a hilarious video footage is taking home the coveted award for fooling the people of his country using antics that are worthy of deserving the Oscar for Best Actor.

The amusing clip was shared on Twitter by a political party of India, the All India Trinamool Congress (AITC), which has scoffed at the premier for pretending to be someone he's not and more importantly lying to his own people.

The tweet has come at a time when the AITC chief, Mamata Banerjee, declared a full-blown war against the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and PM Modi.

Meanwhile, the Indian government has come forth claiming that it attacked and subsequently destroyed the base camps of Jaish-e-Mohammad along the Line of Control killing at least 200.

DG ISPR Major General Asif Ghafoor on the other hand in a tweet said that the Indian Air Force attack near Bala Kote in Muzaffarabad district was successfully repelled with no casualties reported.


----------



## JamD

WaLeEdK2 said:


> I have a question. If they had lots of time then why didn’t they do damage to actual infrastructure.


Plenty of time compared to what conspired in the first to engagements where the Indians didn't even cross.

Also, I am reasonably sure they never really intended to hit anything. What they have done has great propaganda value.

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## Bilal Khan 777

For the kids that want to piss me off...poor lads. What will you achieve by that?


Areesh said:


> Proud of what??
> 
> That they let those goons bomb some trees that exist on Pakistani territory.
> 
> What kind of pride is that?


I am not going to fuel war hysteria like you do. There is no point of arguing about things you don't understand. Indians are making all kinds of claims, and Pakistan is keeping quiet as operational details are not revealed. Dont be a victim of 5th generation warfare.



enquencher said:


> Lol same regime will be for nxt 5 years ..u keep on showing ur maturity meanwhile we keep bombing u..u are too funny man



Good attempt to antagonize me, foolish kid.



Mentee said:


> You guys have been all talk for all these years. Be it obl be it salala and now this.
> Go make a selfie which you lot are good at. Ghyrat nae aati?



Before calling me baighairat, kindly stop a moment and think that unlike you, I have done service for my country and fought two major wars. Your arm chair emotional war of words only does a disservice to service men and women who are handling the situation created by India.



Riz said:


> Very sad response from the most senior members of the forum....WTF why we need to just sit & watch their aggression just because if we reply modi will be in power again...? Hilarious



You are not aware of the information we have, and continue to get. Sadly, we are unable to reveal operational details here. Again, you are also victim of the Indian propaganda. All actions were and are being taken, and things are on the right track. if you expect senior people to chest thump and talk nonsense like Indians are doing as per their plan and policy, you wont be satisfied.

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## Levina

Roybot said:


> I hope @Umair Nawaz is safe, he was in Balakot on Sunday!
> 
> @Levina


What was he doing in Balakot? Getting trained? 
I'm sure you would have really missed him had he come under attack.

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## Bilal Khan 777

Mani2020 said:


> Hats off to you!! If this is what you call maturity. Then it requires 3-4 such maturities from PAF too loose this land .
> 
> Keep up the mature work !!!



Your level of sarcasm does reveal your maturity level, and I can only pray for you. While I commend that you all care about the country, this spirit should continue. What I dont appreciate is all the personal attacks just because we dont agree to the bravado and are dealing with Indians in a language that they understand.

Now to all of you here, apnay aur doosray. I feel your pain when you see public releases. It bothers me when someone claims aircraft came in and were not shot down. It bothers me when people claim there were 12 aircraft, and they decoyed us blah blah. None of this has credence. 12 aircraft don't just leave a base and approach Pakistan, and all ADAs and CAPs are in place to address this kind of BS. The stores that landed in Pakistan are Paveway/Spice category weapons from M2K, which have a 10Nm standoff range. They could land randomly in Pakistan even if jettisoned over Ladakh or tossed way over Jammoo.

Also research the difference between International Border IB, Line of Control LoC, and Line of Actual Contact LAC. The LoC and LAC are not borders, and really there are no violations here. Each country's UAVs constantly cross and are shot down, intercepted etc etc. Additionally, the border is such that a North east vector could fly adjacent to LAC and cross into Pakistan and Indian couple of times. These aircraft are not shot down till the ground controller is absolutely sure that the wreckage will fall into Pakistan. When you talk about Indian Aircraft not being shot down, why was it that Pakistani aircraft were not intercepted by Indian Su, Mig, and Mirage 2000 aircraft as they have all the BVRs? There are strict Rules of Engagement, and Pakistan is a professional and responsible airforce.

I am sure our boys, including all the Staff Officers are spending long hours and burning midnight oil, along with complete air defence setup to ensure that Indians dare not take a score beyond the political nonsense they must do to somehow win the election for the BJP government. Sort of reminds me of Kargil in some ways.

Stay put, and be cognizant that what you see on the screen, any screen, could be specially designed to make you feel one way or the other. Don't. This is the best you can do for the country right now. The uniformed professionals are on the job, and they are best people for it.

And just to put your fears at rest, the "Balakot" being discussed is not the Batrasi / balakot that is in NWFP, but in Azad Kashmir next to the LOC/LAC. I see a lot of false claims so this is for clarity. A totally random area which has nothing to do with the claimed Surgical strike.

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## litman

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Your level of sarcasm does reveal your maturity level, and I can only pray for you. While I commend that you all care about the country, this spirit should continue. What I dont appreciate is all the personal attacks just because we dont agree to the bravado and are dealing with Indians in a language that they understand.
> 
> Now to all of you here, apnay aur doosray. I feel your pain when you see public releases. It bothers me when someone claims aircraft came in and were not shot down. It bothers me when people claim there were 12 aircraft, and they decoyed us blah blah. None of this has credence. 12 aircraft don't just leave a base and approach Pakistan, and all ADAs and CAPs are in place to address this kind of BS. The stores that landed in Pakistan are Paveway/Spice category weapons from M2K, which have a 10Nm standoff range. They could land randomly in Pakistan even if jettisoned over Ladakh or tossed way over Jammoo.
> 
> Also research the difference between International Border IB, Line of Control LoC, and Line of Actual Control LAC. The LoC and LAC are not borders, and really there are no violations here. Each country's UAVs constantly cross and are shot down, intercepted etc etc. Additionally, the border is such that a North east vector could fly adjacent to LAC and cross into Pakistan and Indian couple of times. These aircraft are not shot down till the ground controller is absolutely sure that the wreckage will fall into Pakistan. When you talk about Indian Aircraft not being shot down, why was it that Pakistani aircraft were not intercepted by Indian Su, Mig, and Mirage 2000 aircraft as they have all the BVRs? There are strict Rules of Engagement, and Pakistan is a professional and responsible airforce.
> 
> I am sure our boys, including all the Staff Officers are spending long hours and burning midnight oil, along with complete air defence setup to ensure that Indians dare not take a score beyond the political nonsense they must do to somehow win the election for the BJP government. Sort of reminds me of Kargil in some ways.
> 
> Stay put, and be cognizant that what you see on the screen, any screen, could be specially designed to make you feel one way or the other. Don't. This is the best you can do for the country right now. The uniformed professionals are on the job, and they are best people for it.
> 
> And just to put your fears at rest, the "Balakot" being discussed is not the Batrasi / balakot that is in NWFP, but in Azad Kashmir next to the LOC/LAC. I see a lot of false claims so this is for clarity. A totally random area which has nothing to do with the claimed Surgical strike.


at last a professional reply on pdf

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## jacklord

I don't want to say much but it's look like abottabad 2.0 happened last night. We were off guard or made blind by intruders.
Chest thumping so much on jf17 still using f16 us made a show stopper for Pakistan air defense.



litman said:


> at last a professional reply on pdf


You mean to its was Co_op.of iaf and paf just like 26/11 Gen. Kayani refused same offer by India when USA requested same favour from Pakistan? Say it loud... Can you?

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## Viny

JamD said:


> There's one thing that none of the posters seem to have noticed in DG ISPR's press conference. I think it is telling.
> 
> He narrates that the first Indian flight approached in Lahore/Sialkot area (now we know decoy), and the CAP flight was vectored to them. As soon as the Pakistan team were vectored another Pakistani CAP flight took off, which went on to challenge the second Indian flight (another decoy) down south. After this DG ISPR is a little unclear but it sounds like an awful lot like this:
> PAF had 2 CAP teams, one in air and on the ground, and the third one needed to challenge the actual Indian flight wasn't ready to launch, and hence the third Indian flight had plenty of time to ingress.
> 
> The Indians probably knew our procedures PRETTY well and they planned the operation well. Unfortunately, it seems we weren't doing enough CAP. It almost sounds like there was only one Pakistani CAP flight in the air at a time (Central Air Command) and there were no CAPs or aircraft ready to launch in the north (Northern Air Command).



PAF CAP's mission was to keep eyes open at minimal cost, so that when operational requirements comes in, they have the needfull resources, else this could go on for long period and will start to hit PAF capacity and reserves even without going on war. They where right to a great extent.



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> And just to put your fears at rest, the "Balakot" being discussed is not the Batrasi / balakot that is in NWFP, but in Azad Kashmir next to the LOC/LAC. I see a lot of false claims so this is for clarity. A totally random area which has nothing to do with the claimed Surgical strike.



DGISPR finally accepted it the NWFP and not the one next to LOC. Go and check his last briefing.

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## jacklord

Paf burning jet fuel for last 1 week I think it was wise decision when country is cash strapped looking for imf and Arab allies for bail out. You need lots of cash in your pocket to fight wars people on both sides must be aware how much ammunition cost us Just for reference tomahawk 1million dollars.. Please I prefer news studio wars over real one when financial cost is so high.


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## Hashsohail

There is a video circulating just now on social media about Pakistan downing an Indian jet in Indian occupied Kashmir. is it true?

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## Viny

Hashsohail said:


> There is a video circulating just now on social media about Pakistan downing an Indian jet in Indian occupied Kashmir. is it true?


PAF voilated Indian Air Space, but if they took down Indian Jet and we are in war ...

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## jacklord

Modi needed bail pak needed bail out whole world needed bail out after pulwama so it's a win win deal. All is well when it ends well.. Peace..


----------



## Areesh

Source:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100632970862477312

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## Areesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100628676016726017

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## KRAIT

Unconfirmed till now.


----------



## Muhammad Omar

2-3 PAF Jets entered Indian airspace in Naushera, Rajouri Sector in J&K and went back

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## Maxpane

thats more thn enough

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## Yaseen1

we should go deep inside india like they come to kpk penetrating iok is not enough for paf

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## Icewolf

See Indians this is what happens when you do drama

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## Winchester

This was easy....lol 

They took two weeks to plan this. It took us just 24 hours

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## farhan_9909

Notice the difference

They tricked us and entered into our airspace

PAF entered despite their thick air defense cover,bombed the shit out of them and come back safely.

Pakistan Zindabad

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## KRAIT

3 PAF aircrafts did come but got intercepted. No bombs dropped.

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## Captain77W

Pathankot’s Runway should be disabled

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## Dark-Destroyer

KRAIT said:


> Unconfirmed till now.


Lool Haha 5hitting bricks now sonny boy

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## devil302

f**k em up

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## litman

indian jets blown.

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## Areesh

Winchester said:


> This was easy....lol
> 
> They took two weeks to plan this. It took us just 24 hours



And even after 2 weeks planning they destroyed 8 trees and 2 windows of a mud house

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## Hashsohail

Viny said:


> PAF voilated Indian Air Space, but if they took down Indian Jet and we are in war ...


My post regarding a plain and simple question is still unanswered. Did this just happen? 
and btw Indian, We are at war since 1947.

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## Salza

There you go ....there you go .....there you go....

PAF strikes back...

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## Winchester

Areesh said:


> And even after 2 weeks planning they destroyed 8 trees and 2 windows of a mud house

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## IceCold

@Hodor @Windjammer Any confirm reports gents?

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## Great Janjua

Winchester said:


>


Koi mayi tha lal anh kay takre burrahhhh jhangg khed ni aundi zanaiyan thi

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## Talwar e Pakistan

If true, this move was just to prove that PAF can launch similar incursions. However, I think this is completely unrelated to the retaliation that was promised by the army.

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## untitled

What is a fighter _neta_?


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## AUz

KRAIT said:


> 3 PAF aircrafts did come but got intercepted. No bombs dropped.




Mig 21 shot down. 

IAF wing commander dead (assassinated by ISI)

PAF enters India around same time as Mig-21 “crashed”

C’mon, we all know what’s happening.

As usual, inferior Hindus are getting shafted by militarily superior and far more accomplished Muslim forces (as has happened throughout history )

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## Salza

2 planes shot down...India media accepting PAF violation

*Pakistani jets violate Indian air space*

*https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...n-pakistan-live-updates/liveblog/68177682.cms*

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## KRAIT

AUz said:


> Mig 21 shot down.
> 
> IAF wing commander dead (assassinated by ISI)
> 
> PAF enters India around same time as Mig-21 “crashed”
> 
> C’mon, we all know what’s happening.
> 
> As usual, inferior Hindus are getting shafted by militarily superior and far more accomplished Muslim forces (as has happened throughout history )


Yeah like we all know what happened yesterday.

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## Dark-Destroyer

Salza said:


> 2 planes shot down...India media accepting PAF violation
> 
> *Pakistani jets violate Indian air space*
> 
> *https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...n-pakistan-live-updates/liveblog/68177682.cms*


Well there's the surprise they wanted

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## Salza

Where is @MastanKhan

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## Bindas

devil302 said:


> View attachment 542261
> View attachment 542262
> f**k em up




This is a Mig crash about half 45 mins to hour ago. Pak media giving wrong info.

Pakistan jet violation of Indian airspace is different news.

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## untitled

AUz said:


> Mig-21 “crashed”


Was that not an Mi-17 helicopter


----------



## darksider

not sure its true or not but news channels claiming it.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637083633401859

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## kursed

Su-30 taken out by JF-17

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## Areesh

KRAIT said:


> Yeah like we all know what happened yesterday.



Yeah 8 trees

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## newb3e

Allah ho akbar!!

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## Falcon26

Armani said:


> And Indian media is your source
> 
> PAF attempted incursion after IAF showed them their stars yesterday. Chased away in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> The crash proven to be Mi-17, as ZP tail designation is only carried by those helos. And that too technical snag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop taking credit for things you didn't do and start showing some balls. Come and bring jets into sovereign India (as I don't know KP is disputed territory) if PAF has got guts.



To be fair, you guys targeted some trees and have never shown prove of any surgical strike or yesterday’s attacks. 

I am all for countries showing hard prove. But Indian planes falling from the sky as soon as Indian media reports of PAF incursions not good for you guys. 

2 cents

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## Areesh

Armani said:


> And Indian media is your source
> 
> PAF attempted incursion after IAF showed them their stars yesterday. Chased away in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> The crash proven to be Mi-17, as ZP tail designation is only carried by those helos. And that too technical snag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop taking credit for things you didn't do and start showing some balls. Come and bring jets into sovereign India (as I don't know KP is disputed territory) if PAF has got guts.



You didn't come to kp bharati boy. You were in ajk airspace when you in haste released your payload and ran away home

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## darksider

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637830123008005


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## IceCold

Armani said:


> You need to stop taking credit for things you didn't do and start showing some balls. Come and bring jets into sovereign India (as I don't know KP is disputed territory) if PAF has got guts.


You seem pissed! Why are you pissed if nothing happened. We dont have guts right so nothing to worry about. Relax!

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## enquencher

It is mi 17 heli..tail name can be verified.


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## Max

this is not enough.. we should claim 500 deaths on indian side via sources. they can keep their Mig 21 kill as accident.

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## Rafael

kursed said:


> Su-30 taken out by JF-17



Souce? please.


----------



## graphican

Pakistan has attacked India - for real with evidence - as promised.

Vote for Modi now.. vote for loser.

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## jupiter2007

Telescopic Sight said:


> So PAF bombed Kashmir and it's people ? Will that make Pakistan popular with kashmiris?



If India wanted to attack Pakistan, they could have fired missiles at defence installations. India wanted to do this surgical strike topi drama and bomb the civilians area in Pakistan to show their public that they attack terrorist camps.
Pakistan won’t attack civilians, they will attack Indian troops or other soft target on other side.

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## KRAIT

Rafael said:


> Souce? please.


No Source. Just imagination. We are also waiting for the complete story. Kindly wait with us.

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## Armani

IceCold said:


> You seem pissed! Why are you pissed if nothing happened. We dont have guts right so nothing to worry about. Relax!



One can ask same question why PA so pissed off at LoC if Indian jets really didn't bomb anyone yesterday

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## Salza

ISPR to do emergency press conference in few mins

Where the **** was high alert IAF now ?

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## Ghessan

also news of JF-17 hitting posts along LOC

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## Max

Armani said:


> One can ask same question why PA so pissed off at LoC if Indian jets really didn't bomb anyone yesterday



bcoz You violated airspace and drooped bomb in empty area.. its violation of our sovereignty and deserve response..

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## Maxpane




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## IceCold

Armani said:


> One can ask same question why PA so pissed off at LoC if Indian jets really didn't bomb anyone yesterday


You violated our airspace and dropped payload on our trees, that's an aggression so naturally any professional army will be pissed and will respond. But why are you pissed?

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## Winchester

Falcon26 said:


> To be fair, you guys targeted some trees and have never shown prove of any surgical strike or yesterday’s attacks.
> 
> I am all for countries showing hard prove. But Indian planes falling from the sky as soon as Indian media reports of PAF incursions not good for you guys.
> 
> 2 cents


 
Either shot down or pilot error due to being panicked.

Reminds me on that story from one of the 65 veterans...as soon as the F-104 would appear, they could hear the Indians chatter 

" Nasso Nasso"

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## fitpOsitive

Areesh said:


> Source:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100632970862477312


Highly unlikely. 
But even if it happened, then India striked KPK, that's our territory, and we striked Kashmir, that's again our territory.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637348625289217

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## KRAIT

You guys are so gullible.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Max

Foreign office: we did everything in daylight and infront of the world. dont test our patience.

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## ZedZeeshan

Breaking news

@ Indian jets shot down.. News comming

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100638175146508288
Confirmation from India

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## Flash_Ninja

KRAIT said:


> You guys are so gullible.



LOL an Indian is saying this

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## Inqlab-e-Pakistan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100639979368341505

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## Areesh

4 locations bombarded


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100634353896435712

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## Reichsmarschall

Telescopic Sight said:


> So PAF bombed Kashmir and it's people ? Will that make Pakistan popular with kashmiris?


You just got butt fcked
Save these puny excuse for later

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## Mirza Jatt

Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back. 

Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people

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## Mutakalim

Favour is returned just been confirmed by FM.

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## Max

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.



Thats what we are saying. now you understand perfectly.. lol

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

I have been saying it all along - IK has a “lean and hungry” look!!! According to Shakespeare (Sheyh Pir!!!), people should fear him for he is dangerous....

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## Maxpane

Max said:


> Thats what we are saying. now you understand perfectly.. lol


rude sir

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## mshan44

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.
> 
> Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people


we shot down your 2 planes and still you are not satisfied then we wil give you more

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## Dark-Destroyer

KRAIT said:


> No Source. Just imagination. We are also waiting for the complete story. Kindly wait with us.


Hahaha Indians pijama is leaking Haha cow cola

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## graphican

Footage of India fighter jet hit and being downed! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637892769140737

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## Maxpane

DG ISPR confirmed it


----------



## Armani

mshan44 said:


> we shot down your 2 planes and still you are not satisfied then we wil give you more



What 2 planes...one was Mi-17 crash you tried to pass off as MIG shot down

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## Rafael

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.
> 
> Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people



yeah nothing happened. Your two jets just fell from the sky.

Your news channels are reporting nothing. Go to sleep.


----------



## darksider

ALLAH HU AKBAR

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080

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## Dark-Destroyer

Armani said:


> Exactly...this is ad-hoc action by PAF to pacify local cries after Balakot.
> 
> Near LoC  Let's see if PAF can strike in sovereign India


Lol laugh here you crying little b1tch3 we came and what did u do sit and cry lol

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## The Sandman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080
WING Commander Abhinandan captured by Pakistani forces!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100697950643200000Respect for our troops who intervened and stopped charged up crowd 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120Edit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641612416339968
*Major airports suspend flight operations across Punjab, KP*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100663025240100864

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## krakatoa

LOL


----------



## Mirza Jatt

Two different areas. Two separate incidents. You guys seem soo excited .. lol

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## Areesh

*Official confirmation *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080

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## Max

DG ISPR confiriming, they shot down 2 indian jets,,


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

fitpOsitive said:


> Highly unlikely.
> But even if it happened, then India striked KPK, that's our territory, and we striked Kashmir, that's again our territory.


Some people are never satisfied

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## untitled

We Got 'em guys

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## litman

one indian pilot captured


----------



## Areesh

Max said:


> DG ISPR confiriming, they shot down 2 indian jets,,



One bharati pilot arrested

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## farhan_9909

3 indian aircrafts are down (Credible source)

This is a signal from Pakistan side that we want to escalate it into a full scale war

Pakistan Armed Forces Zindabad.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641218965295104

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

I am pretty sure PAF couldn’t take any more of Mastan Bey’s clear and present insults!!!! Enough is enough...

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## The Sandman

@Starlord @Mentee @Maxpane @Zibago @Moonlight

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## Great Janjua

Takbir


----------



## TheDarkKnight

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.
> 
> Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people


Ironic thats the same response of DG ISPR that you Indians have been mocking. I would say if nothin happened then relax.


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.
> 
> Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people


Lol save your face sunny boy go pick up the pieces of your downed shit you call planes

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## Reichsmarschall

KRAIT said:


> You guys are so gullible.


Why they banned airspace over Pathankot for civilians flights ?


----------



## HydNizam

IAF caught off guard. Was definitely not expecting this.

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## graphican

*Indian fighter jet being shot and falling while burning... *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637892769140737

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## Great Janjua

Takbir Allahu akbar ethay rakh sohniya


----------



## Max

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080


----------



## Maxpane

bhai more than happy

Reactions: Like Like:
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## darksider

Max said:


> DG ISPR confiriming, they shot down 2 indian jets,,


I WANT TO SEE ARRESTED PILOT


----------



## Hassan Guy

if its real i'll penetrate a pile of snow raw and post it to pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Flash_Ninja

Boys even captured one of them, lets see what excuses they try and come up with this time

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## ziaulislam

KRAIT said:


> Unconfirmed till now.


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100639138653470721

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Max

*Pakistan strikes back*
(2019-02-27) Today, Pakistan Air Force undertook strikes across Line of Control from within Pakistani airspace. This was not a retaliation to continued Indian belligerence. Pakistan has therefore, taken strikes at non military target, avoiding human loss and collateral damage. Sole purpose being to demonstrate our right, will and capability for self defence. We have no intention of escalation, but are fully prepared to do so if forced into that paradigm. That is why we undertook the action with clear warning and in broad daylight. For the last few years, India has been trying to establish what they call "a new normal" a thinly veiled term for doing acts of aggression at whatever pretext they wish on a given day. If India is striking at so called terrorist backers without a shred of evidence, we also retain reciprocal rights to retaliate against elements that enjoy Indian patronage while carrying out acts of terror in Pakistan. We do not wish to go to that route and wish that India gives peace a chance and to resolve issues like a mature democratic nation. 



Islamabad 

27 February 2019

http://www.mofa.gov.pk/

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## خره مينه لګته وي

RAWALPINDI: Pakistan military has confirmed that two Indian fighter jets were shot down today in response to Indian aggression.

RAWALPINDI: Pakistan military has confirmed that two Indian fighter jets were shot down today in response to Indian aggression.

DG ISPR said: “In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.”

There are reports that an Indian pilot had ejected and reportedly been in Pakistani custody.

It's all over the news

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## Maxpane

The Sandman said:


> @Starlord @Mentee @Maxpane @Zibago @Moonlight


more than happy



Maxpane said:


> more than happy


we also arrested pilot bhai .

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## Rashid Mahmood



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## TheDarkKnight

Armani said:


> Exactly...this is ad-hoc action by PAF to pacify local cries after Balakot.
> 
> Near LoC  Let's see if PAF can strike in sovereign India


So near LOC doesnt count so your Surgical strike 1.0 was nothing then as well. By the way Kashmir is your so called atoot ang - attacking this is better!

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Viny said:


> PAF voilated Indian Air Space, but if they took down Indian Jet and we are in war ...



I don’t know where you find your jingoism. It is tit for tat. You killed our trees ahem I mean 350 million terrorists and if we would down your jet. Fair trade.

Now off to plant some saplings in Jabba valley.

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## Rafael

Alhamdulillah , Alhuamdulillah Alhamdulillah!

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## ziaulislam



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## Dinky

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637093896835072

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## Mutakalim

Allah u Akbar

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## graphican

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.
> 
> Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people



Two Indian fighter jets downed, two pilots killed, one Indian pilot alive and arrested in Pakistan.


----------



## Enigma SIG

Finally. 2 SU30 MKI's shot down, 1 pilot killed; 1 arrested; 2 hiding. Will be found soon.


----------



## N.Siddiqui

One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.

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## Chhatrapati

Reichsmarschall said:


> Why they banned airspace over Pathankot for civilians flights ?


Taking precautions.


----------



## Maxpane

paf didnt violate loc

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## KRAIT

ziaulislam said:


>


Do you think we believe ISPR?

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## Amigator

Please everybody tag @MastanKhan


----------



## Hareeb

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080

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## mingle

Telescopic Sight said:


> So PAF bombed Kashmir and it's people ? Will that make Pakistan popular with kashmiris?


We hit indian military *** and shot down sabzi Jet as well.

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## Areesh

Indians confirming 4 locations bombed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100638981941678082

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## Dark-Destroyer

They will disown the pilot lol Indians are that shameless

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## fitpOsitive

Dark-Destroyer said:


> Some people are never satisfied


Yeh dil mangy more... Just kidding. Mery khayal se iska jawab zabani kafi tha. Per chalo Jo hoa so hoa.

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## ziaulislam

KRAIT said:


> Do you think we believe ISPR?


I believe the video of burned dead pilot of mig21 on news channels

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## maximuswarrior

SubhanAllah! Woke up this morning and this news has made my day!

All those twats that were doubting PAF. There is your answer.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641652966916096

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## Armani

Didn't even dare cross LoC

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## Amigator

One retired General Saying on Geo News that this was a BVR hit


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## The Sandman

KRAIT said:


> Gullible Pakistanis.


DG ISPR claims one pilot has been arrested why not wait for them to show him on camera? Jldi kis baat ki hai

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## Dark-Destroyer

KRAIT said:


> Do you think we believe ISPR?


Lol believe what you want b1tch but go read international news we came and slapped you with a cow beef steak

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## mingle

Dark-Destroyer said:


> They will disown the pilot lol Indians are that shameless


Most shameless and cheap ppl I ever seen on planet earth.

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## TheDarkKnight

Armani said:


> What 2 planes...one was Mi-17 crash you tried to pass off as MIG shot down


Dude wait for the details DG ISPr is claiming an Indian pilot arrested!!


----------



## graphican

*Indian Mirage downed, the possibly the same jets which attacked in Pakistan*

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Good work guys. Ma sha Allah.

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## Salza

Woow and this too in broad day light

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## Viny

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I don’t know where you find your jingoism. It is tit for tat. You killed our trees ahem I mean 350 million terrorists and if we would down your jet. Fair trade.
> 
> Now off to plant some saplings in Jabba valley.



 the fun for online trollers began with lives of real fighter...
things not looking good at the moment.


----------



## mingle

Modi is out


----------



## hunter_hunted

Armani said:


> What 2 planes...one was Mi-17 crash you tried to pass off as MIG shot down



Well your little fuckery came back to you. Does it matter what came down after hit. That Helo/Fighter jet was your asset that came down after a successful hit by Pakistani Jets. Go and give vote to your Modi and make India great again.


----------



## Areesh

Max said:


> Parade that bastard on TV.



We will

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Salza said:


> Woow and this too in broad day light


yeah, we dont hide stuff in the dar so no one knows what really happened.


----------



## Srinivas

It was an air to air engagement between IAF and PAF. Pakistan is quick to claim victory. Waiting for IAF for the confirmation of the losses on the pakistani side.

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## Chhatrapati

graphican said:


> Two Indian fighter jets downed, two pilots killed, one Indian pilot alive and arrested in Pakistan.


To fool gullible bunch. Nothing of such happened.

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## Salza

High time for @Mastan Khan to say sorry

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## Skyliner

Alhamdilillah,
ALLAH HU AKBAR
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD
PAF, PAK ARMY, NAVY ZINDABAD

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## Hassan Guy

LEMME SEE THE DAMN PILOT THEY CAPTURED


----------



## Talha Asif

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2117504588546984

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## Lone Ranger

*NAARA E TAKBEER ..........ALLAH O AKBAR *

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## maverick_0985

Mirza Jatt said:


> Two different areas. Two separate incidents. You guys seem soo excited .. lol




dont you think it is very strange coincidence. grow up. open up what left in your drum head

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## Signalian

Received

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## Armani

graphican said:


> *Indian Mirage downed, the possibly the same jets which attacked in Pakistan*
> 
> View attachment 542278



Picture of MiG-27 crash from 2017  Pakistani dramebaazi at finest






https://www.indiatimes.com/news/ind...r-fighter-jet-accidents-last-year-274885.html

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## Kwame Brown

Is India and Pakistan going to war?


----------



## Canuck786

*پاک فوج زندہ باد*
**​


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641652966916096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080

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## maximuswarrior

Huge! Absolutely huge!

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## Arsalan 345

Allah o akbar.we hit them we hit them.

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## litman

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> I am pretty sure PAF couldn’t take any more of Mastan Bey’s clear and present insults!!!! Enough is enough...


PAF is the most professional force. they dont take people like mastan khan seriously. probably they rejected him during ISSB that's why he is so much pissed off at Paf

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## Armani

Dazzler said:


> Mig-27 done and dusted!
> 
> live pic from ground zero..
> View attachment 542279



Lol - pic of MiG-27 crash from 2017....gullible propaganda believers you guys are 







https://www.indiatimes.com/news/ind...r-fighter-jet-accidents-last-year-274885.html

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## Reichsmarschall

Telescopic Sight said:


> Please drop a few tons of bombs in Kashmir. It will only ruin your image with kashmiris.
> 
> reports are that even this stunt was in abandoned area , but unfortunately a 9 year old boy is hurt.


How's the Josh veggie eaters

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## CriticalThought

Alhamdulillah. La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illa Billa. Masha Allah.

NARAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-E-TAKBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

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## Sine Nomine

KRAIT said:


> No Source. Just imagination. We are also waiting for the complete story. Kindly wait with us.


It is all imagination since NDA came,in 2016 no body cams and in 2019 no strike footage from Mirage 2000 pods.


----------



## Black Bird

Confirmed by ISPR


----------



## Telescopic Sight

Mig 27 !?! Wtf? Against F 16 s ! C'mon , so foolish of the iaf !


----------



## Incog_nito

Pakistan Zindabad....


----------



## litman

indian pilots in our custody. what now india will say about him?

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## Jackdaws

Inside Pak airspace? This must be the Indian planes chasing them out.


----------



## PatriotLover

*Guys top making a fool of ourselves. Post confirmed news only....*

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## Sugarcane

darksider said:


> ALLAH HU AKBAR
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080



If true than Well done, I take back my extra hard criticism of PAF. But I still stand by opinion that our response should have been within minutes i.e. We must identify the Indian posts on LOC where they are at advantage, and should blow them up whenever India gives us excuse.

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## Canuck786

Please tell me JF-17's were used for the kill!

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## graphican

KRAIT said:


> Do you think we believe ISPR?


----------



## Hareeb

Srinivas said:


> It was an air to air engagement between IAF and PAF. Pakistan is quick to claim victory. Waiting for IAF for the confirmation of the losses on the pakistani side.


Already on India Today.



Jackdaws said:


> Inside Pak airspace? This must be the Indian planes chasing them out.


And getting knocked down. IAF at its best.

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## ziaulislam

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?


Already at war..question is will it be taken to nuclear

Immediate deescalation is needed by UNSC ۔۔it should condemn india for violation (and also Pakistan for subsequent violation )

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## Sine Nomine

KRAIT said:


> You guys are so gullible.


Bit less then drama queens next door.

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## maximuswarrior

We are not going to return the pilot that we arrested. He is another Jadhav.

Extract all details from this pilot. Very valuable catch!

LOL it means these bastards came back into Pak airspace. What did I tell you folks. These Indian bastards wanted to make a habit out of it.

Now everyone got our answer. You fvck with is. We will split you in half.

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## mingle

KRAIT said:


> 3 PAF aircrafts did come but got intercepted. No bombs dropped.


Keep ur heart buddy why they didn't drop bomb? One more thing war is not ur ppl game go sing dance and make movie.you guys r not fighting material


----------



## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637892769140737

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## Talon

*As I had predicted and posted yesterday..now where are all those people who were criticizing PAF?
Pakistan Zindabad*

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## Hashsohail

Viny said:


> the fun for online trollers began with lives of real fighter...
> things not looking good at the moment.



You freak, india started this, now we will end it.

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637892769140737

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637892769140737

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## IceCold

Armani said:


> Near LoC  Let's see if PAF can strike in sovereign India


Wait janab! The real response is yet to come.



Hodor said:


> *As I had predicted and posted yesterday..now where are all those people who were criticizing PAF?
> Pakistan Zindabad*


I tagged you in another thread but it go deleted. What exactly has happened? Can you elaborate?

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## Reichsmarschall

Telescopic Sight said:


> Please drop a few tons of bombs in Kashmir. It will only ruin your image with kashmiris.
> 
> reports are that even this stunt was in abandoned area , but unfortunately a 9 year old boy is hurt.


We Will shut these monkeys down said the dg in press conference

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637892769140737

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## Dazzler

Armani said:


> Lol - pic of MiG-27 crash from 2017....gullible propaganda believers you guys are
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.indiatimes.com/news/ind...r-fighter-jet-accidents-last-year-274885.html



True, post deleted.

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## Armani

litman said:


> indian pilots in our custody. what now india will say about him?



Did he come from the same MiG-27 that crashed in 2017 that you guys are trying to pass off as downed by PAF?

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## Kwame Brown

Hopefully this doesn't get out of hand and cooler heads prevail.

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## PakShaheen79

Ah! Read all 125 pages of this thread has so far and I must acknowledge that not many on PDF are aware of sensitivities of war. For Indians, this is an ideal situation but that is temporary, for the very first time I have seen DG ISPR telling us that targets have been identified and it is only matter of time when something will occur. Clearly, this is a brinkmanship and not an easy thing to do for a country which is 8 time smaller than its adversary but after such a black and white commitment by political and military leadership, I can only sense that "Tabdeeli aa nahi rahi, tabdeeli aa gai hai". Political will and public approval were the most difficult things in the past for armed forces to have such a commitment of avenging this latest violation of sovereignty. But now, armed forces have this support and it is just matter of time .... Clock is ticking ...

BREAKING IN: 2 IAF planes downed by PAF.

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## untitled

maximuswarrior said:


> We are not going to return the pilot that we arrested.


Unlike Yadhav he is a prisoner of war. He was captured while wearing his country's uniform

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## Mav3rick

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?



Depends on India; Pakistan will not initiate war but would be left with no other choice but to defend itself if war is imposed upon Pakistan.

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## Moonlight

Boys ❤️❤️❤️

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## maximuswarrior

member.exe said:


> Unlike Yadhav he is a prisnor of war. He was captured wearing his country's uniform



Too late. We will do as we wish. Remember our timing and our place.

For a starter, we will extract all valuable info.

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## Telescopic Sight

What photos are the media sharing ?
From 2 years ago ?
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ajasthan-pilot-ejects-safely-13834-2016-06-13


----------



## mingle

Khan will sink Modi s election prospects marks my word guy is king slayer Modi is his next target. 
Pakistan zindabad

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## Moonlight

Allah o Akabar

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## Canuck786




----------



## mingle

Telescopic Sight said:


> What photos are the media sharing ?
> From 2 years ago ?
> https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ajasthan-pilot-ejects-safely-13834-2016-06-13


We all know U will get pic of ur hero and his wreck


----------



## Talon

IceCold said:


> Wait janab! The real response is yet to come.
> 
> 
> I tagged you in another thread but it go deleted. What exactly has happened? Can you elaborate?


Dont have much idea yet


----------



## Max

@HalfMoon you alive bro, it may ease your hypertention.


----------



## Oruc

one tail section looks like mirage


----------



## The Diplomat

Mubarak ho Pakistanio!

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## Flash_Ninja

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?



At most probably a small skirmish

This is based on the fact that they typically dont confront Pakistan outside of election season, the constant barrage of warmongering from their press, and the fact that their goals make no strategic or tactical sense. It seems like a ploy by Modi to try and win the elections coming up over there.

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## j20611

Feed the captured pilot beef!

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## Alpha BeeTee

Guys RELAX!

Let some confirmation happen.

Indians claiming our F16 shot.
Our media showing old images of IAF crash!


----------



## Hareeb

Another is on run on Pakistani side.



maximuswarrior said:


> We are not going to return the pilot that we arrested. He is another Jadhav.
> 
> Extract all details from this pilot. Very valuable catch!
> 
> LOL it means these bastards came back into Pak airspace. What did I tell you folks. These Indian bastards wanted to make a habit out of it.
> 
> Now everyone got our answer. You fvck with is. We will split you in half.


----------



## ziaulislam



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## Patriots

ALLAH o AKBAR

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## Reichsmarschall

@MastanKhan I expect an apology from you

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## IceCold

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?


Maybe. You are enjoying the show?


----------



## mingle

Viny said:


> View attachment 542282
> 
> 
> Who knows whats going on...


Our jet will down we will accept it but accept ur jet is down and pilot is pow


----------



## Armani

litman said:


> fuk off loser. we have something to show . u didnt have anything other then some timber.



What you "have to show" is a photo of MIG-27 that crashed 2 years ago


----------



## HydNizam

Indian media claims f 16 shot down inside Pakistan territory . However this seems false and locals on ground did not report as such


----------



## batmannow

Telescopic Sight said:


> So PAF bombed Kashmir and it's people ? Will that make Pakistan popular with kashmiris?


No we bombed RSS and BJP war bandits in uniforms kashmiris are jublent

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## maximuswarrior

Hareeb said:


> Another is on run on Pakistani side.


 
Catch the bastard! Absolutely terrify the bastard. Also upon catching him make him eat beef. This is our way of welcoming new guests.

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## Rafael

KRAIT said:


> F-16 shot down. Awaiting confirmation. War has started.



You would not ask for source now. will you?

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## mshan44

they are saying they have shot down f16 3 km inside pakistan territory and they are claiming it fell down inside pakistan beacause they cant show the wreckage so just for chest thumping they are saying it fell down inside paksitan lol

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100645790605889536

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## ziaulislam



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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100645216745250816


----------



## Amigator

HydNizam said:


> Indian media claims f 16 shot down inside Pakistan territory . However this seems false and locals on ground did not report as such


Bull Shit

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## Great Janjua

Wait for the press conference

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1


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## Salza

ANI facing saving source  fact is: PAF has embarrassed IAF badly

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## Tps43

Su 30 was the casualty

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## kris

Indian news agencies are not airing the news that Indian jets are down and pilot arrested...
Will have to wait for confirmation


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100639913102450688


----------



## batmannow

Armani said:


> What you "have to show" is a photo of MIG-27 that crashed 2 years ago


We bring the whole dam movie , how ur coward PM was hiding in.new dehli under the table ?cause his atendent told him pak is on attack in india at some place

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## Areesh

cerberus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100644064452472832



Not confirmed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100639261190049793

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## SHAH07

Love it ALLAH ho Akbar ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

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## Alpha BeeTee

The one who shows actual evidence WINS!!

So far no victor!


----------



## maximuswarrior

All the people in the area need to be alerted. According to ISPR there are two pilots in the area. We need to start a witch hunt. Catch the bastards and feed them some good old beef.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Viny said:


> View attachment 542281



False until independently verified. Or stated by ISPR.

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## Rafael

KRAIT said:


> ANI just reported it. I got the info from my friend.
> 
> 
> Yes. Unfortunately, war has started.



I'm sure he is reliable. Unlike Pakistani sources

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## litman

Viny said:


> View attachment 542282
> 
> 
> Who knows whats going on...


hahah indian news. losers. showing pakistani F-16s as indian jets . shameless losers

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Amigator

Indian Media no evidence just blah blah blah

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## Sine Nomine

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Pakistan Shot down Two Indian Planes *


It's an old pic from crash.


----------



## batmannow

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100639913102450688


Word "Likly " is their wish so its still all lies been used to fight a real war ?lolzzz


----------



## SHAH07

But India reporting our F-16 down.. hope this is fake.. any update guys ?


----------



## Salza

No PAF jet crashed. India media is hiding their embarrassment.

ISPR has clearly said that they have shot down 2 INDIAN planes.

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## fitpOsitive

Foji unka Mary ya hamara, hota tu insan hi hai. Bal bachon wala, bhary pury ghar wala... Afsoos hai is jang pe. Pta nai kb Jan chootygi is musalsal jang se.

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## Pakistani captain

Which fighter planes Pakistan have shot down?


----------



## IceCold

ziaulislam said:


>


So stand off weapon used.


----------



## Skyliner

Allah hu Akbar
Alhamdulillah
PAKISTAN PAF ARMY NAVY ZINDABAD

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## Alpha BeeTee

INDIAN MEDIA SAYING MIG AIRCRAFT CRASHED DUE TO 'TECHNICAL ISSUES' !!!

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Kesay zaleel log hen yar!

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## Sine Nomine

AyanRay said:


> ANI has images it seems of F-16 pilot in parachutes.


But that fighter crashed in Pakistan,didn't ANI said that?

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## TsAr

Hodor said:


> *As I had predicted and posted yesterday..now where are all those people who were criticizing PAF?
> Pakistan Zindabad*


Dafa Karo aun logon to Hodor, details share Karo bhai


----------



## Jackdaws

maximuswarrior said:


> All the people in the area need to be alerted. According to ISPR there are two pilots in the area. We need to start a witch hunt. Catch the bastards and feed them some good old beef.


Didn't you arrest them?


----------



## mingle

I have no shame if our plane shot down its part of business but happy we sort these drunk monkies of east.

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## KRAIT

Rafael said:


> I'm sure he is reliable. Unlike Pakistani sources


I am saying ANI has reported it.


----------



## Rafael

Jackdaws said:


> Didn't you arrest them?



1 arrested. two on the loose.


----------



## Mutakalim

mingle said:


> Most shameless and cheap ppl I ever seen on planet earth.


Dushman b ghatya mila

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## pkuser2k12

*PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace*

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## Sine Nomine

Viny said:


> View attachment 542282
> 
> 
> Who knows whats going on...


It crashed 3 Km inside and parachute was visable


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

We need EVIDENCE!

We need 'VISUALS'

We dont fly on hot air like India.

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## mingle

Gillani88 said:


> Dushman b ghatya mila


So true shameless and cheap also don't have tiolets

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## RPK

Alpha BeeTee said:


> INDIAN MEDIA SAYING MIG AIRCRAFT CRASHED DUE TO 'TECHNICAL ISSUES' !!!


That is MI-17


----------



## Fawadqasim1

IceCold said:


> So stand off weapon used.


it seems like that sir

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## TheDarkKnight

Hodor said:


> *As I had predicted and posted yesterday..now where are all those people who were criticizing PAF?
> Pakistan Zindabad*


Whats the news on so called F16 casualty? Or any casulty of Paf so far?


----------



## Icewolf

As much as I dislike war India started this fight... so Indians cannot cry and whine about being dealt with


----------



## AUz

KRAIT said:


> Gullible Pakistanis.



indian pilot arrested 

Damn, india got SHAFTEDDDDDDD big time.

Within 24 hours, we bombed indian territory, and shot down responding aircrafts.

Holy shit!!!!!!!!

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## newb3e

Alpha BeeTee said:


> We need EVIDENCE!
> 
> We need 'VISUALS'
> 
> We dont fly on hot air like India.


india media makes a fool of 1 billion idiots seriously! i always thought indians were educaed and smart! fking idiots they are


----------



## Inqlab-e-Pakistan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100647699903180800

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## fitpOsitive

cerberus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100644064452472832



Any picture? We already have posted.


----------



## Areesh

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> It crashed 3 Km inside and parachute was visable



Bohat taiz aankhain hain bharation ki

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## mingle

Alpha BeeTee said:


> We need EVIDENCE!
> 
> We need 'VISUALS'
> 
> We dont fly on hot air like India.


It's early u will see happy monkey arrested embrassment for india and IAF


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

ziaulislam said:


> Look at people cheering


Are these Pakistanis? Not sure.


----------



## Armani

Alpha BeeTee said:


> INDIAN MEDIA SAYING MIG AIRCRAFT CRASHED DUE TO 'TECHNICAL ISSUES' !!!
> 
> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> Kesay zaleel log hen yar!



Mi-17, not any MIG or any fixed-wing plane.


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637974570643456


----------



## Sabretooth

The Sandman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080



So it begins! 
Well done flyboys 

Now is not the time to pull any punches. *الله يساعد باكستان*

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## Aasimkhan

Armani said:


> Picture of MiG-27 crash from 2017  Pakistani dramebaazi at finest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.indiatimes.com/news/ind...r-fighter-jet-accidents-last-year-274885.html


Seems to be a su30


----------



## Dazzler

agamdilawari said:


> Pak F16 shot down



BS, bring evidence.


----------



## Sine Nomine

Areesh said:


> Bohat taiz aankhain hain bharation ki


Yeah kisi vedic chez ka kamal hai.


----------



## khail007

As the war starting to heat-up planes will be shot down from both sides. Not a big deal.
But amazed that in very first encounter the mightiest of the mighty MKI shot down ... !
What was wrong with radar of that MKI which can track enemies from 130+KM.
Who was the hero who draws the first blood?

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## newb3e

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637974570643456


why suspended? cant your supa tejas protect airspace? bakchodian bc

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## ziaulislam

Kwame Brown said:


> Hopefully this doesn't get out of hand and cooler heads prevail.


Depends how world powers respond..with their muted response this was expected poor show by world powers especially Australia france and USA



IceCold said:


> So stand off weapon used.


Correct 
No country can prevent strikes i have mentioned that many times

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## Areesh

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Yeah kisi vedic chez ka kamal hai.



Gau mutra bro

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## Viny

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> It crashed 3 Km inside and parachute was visable


Have you ever seen parachute dives?
You can see them as far as 10kms or more if you have good vision. The height at which fighter aircraft flies is very much possible


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

Peshawar airport closed Down.

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## Great Janjua

Viny said:


> Have you ever seen parachute dives?
> You can see them as far as 10kms or more if you have good vision. The height at which fighter aircraft flies is very much possible


Not in winter


----------



## atya

maximuswarrior said:


> We are not going to return the pilot that we arrested. He is another Jadhav.
> 
> Extract all details from this pilot. Very valuable catch!
> 
> LOL it means these bastards came back into Pak airspace. What did I tell you folks. These Indian bastards wanted to make a habit out of it.
> 
> Now everyone got our answer. You fvck with is. We will split you in half.


Just give him proper meal and he will tell all.

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## ziaulislam

Viny said:


> Have you ever seen parachute dives?
> You can see them as far as 10kms or more if you have good vision. The height at which fighter aircraft flies is very much possible


----------



## Areesh

Dazzler said:


> BS, bring evidence.



Lollipop already given to bharatis before pakistan would prade arrested pilot on its TV channels

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## mingle

ziaulislam said:


> Lol


Seems guy is burned.


----------



## CHACHA"G"

ziaulislam said:


>


*MashaAllah……. welldone ….. great job...… Allah o Akbar*
jut like what iaf did...………. but what we hit.... where our 4 bombs dropped... what hq ,,,,

Edit: Look like SOWs ,,,,,,,, may be , just maybe , Raad


----------



## Arsalan 345

i think we hit there mi-17 as well.


----------



## ziaulislam

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Are these Pakistanis? Not sure.


Its indian occupied kashmir released by indian media


----------



## jupiter2007

According to Indian news Pakistan lost one F-16.


----------



## newb3e

Areesh said:


> Bohat taiz aankhain hain bharation ki


bawakoof banna rahay hain apni qoum ko; aqal say farigh qoum hai!


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

We HAVE to arrest alive pilots!

Otherwise no solid evidence from us till now. They can easily claim downed jet as malfunctioing case.


----------



## fitpOsitive

KRAIT said:


> F-16 has already been shot down.
> 
> 
> The F-16 crashed in your region.


Oho... That's a twist. 
Well here is the real plot:
Our pilots entered in thickly guarded area. When they saw IAF coming they rushed back, where we were ready to shoot. 
But, I am against war. Loss of human lives is unacceptable what so ever.


----------



## mingle

Viny said:


> Have you ever seen parachute dives?
> You can see them as far as 10kms or more if you have good vision. The height at which fighter aircraft flies is very much possible


Kaka go sing dance and make movie don't waste ur time yes get some money from me and have tiolet at home. War is not ur thing never was in history either that's why u ruled by outsiders.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## AUz

KRAIT said:


> F-16 has already been shot down.
> 
> 
> The F-16 crashed in your region.





Where's the proof? video?

We have released video and pictures as can be seen by anyone!!!!!

You guys still going off of fake news? 

God, I am SO FUCKING PROUD!!!! Pakistan Military OWNNEEDDDDD indian self-respect within 24 hours!!!!

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## Sine Nomine

Areesh said:


> Gau mutra bro


How is Josh
Burned Sir

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## Death Professor

Bring the pilot in-front of media to show the world, the pathetic situation that india has put itself into.

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## Alpha BeeTee

Pak media making a BLUNDER by showing old pics of crashed Indian jet.


----------



## ziaulislam

Fawadqasim1 said:


> it seems like that sir


Which begs the question why didnt IAF do that
They simply droped dumb bombs off target in a hurry


----------



## mingle

Alpha BeeTee said:


> We HAVE to arrest alive pilots!
> 
> Otherwise no solid evidence from us till now. They can easily claim downed jet as malfunctioing case.


Keep them and if they do more court martial them


----------



## Areesh

newb3e said:


> bawakoof banna rahay hain apni qoum ko; aqal say farigh qoum hai!



Lollipop dai di hai bharation ko.

Indians knew pakistan would parade Indian pilot. So already have given a lollipop to their awaam to suck up to


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Dark-Destroyer

Dont worry Indians when we parade him he himself will tell you Haha you clowns cow cola drinker


----------



## Sine Nomine

Viny said:


> Have you ever seen parachute dives?
> You can see them as far as 10kms or more if you have good vision. The height at which fighter aircraft flies is very much possible


You are a funny guy.
Area is cloudy.


----------



## Max

Viny said:


> View attachment 542282
> 
> 
> Who knows whats going on...



Trying to console bharatis?


----------



## Talon

TsAr said:


> Dafa Karo aun logon to Hodor, details share Karo bhai


All I know we did a ground strike as well

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## mingle

Alpha BeeTee said:


> We HAVE to arrest alive pilots!
> 
> Otherwise no solid evidence from us till now. They can easily claim downed jet as malfunctioing case.


As per ISPR one pilot is pow enough

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## thunderr

Mess with the best die like a rat !! Pakistan zindabad !!!!!

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## Areesh

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> How is Josh
> Burned Sir




How's the josh

Phat gayi sir

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## graphican

agamdilawari said:


> Pak F16 shot down



Got a footage ? A photo? No? It didn't


----------



## KRAIT

AUz said:


> Where's the proof? video?
> 
> We have released video and pictures as can be seen by anyone!!!!!
> 
> You guys still going off of fake news?
> 
> God, I am SO FUCKING PROUD!!!! Pakistan Military OWNNEEDDDDD indian self-respect within 24 hours!!!!


What videos and pics. You showed old pics. 
Showed Mig 27 crashed way ago as Mig 21



fitpOsitive said:


> Oho... That's a twist.
> Well here is the real plot:
> Our pilots entered in thickly guarded area. When they saw IAF coming they rushed back, where we were ready to shoot.
> But, I am against war. Loss of human lives is unacceptable what so ever.


But war has started.


----------



## HydNizam

So a malfunctioning jet crash is somehow better than being shot at. Lol
Normally that would be worse, but then this is Indian mindset

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## Talon

TheDarkKnight said:


> Whats the news on so called F16 casualty? Or any casulty of Paf so far?


fake hy

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## Viny

mingle said:


> Kaka go sing dance and make movie don't waste ur time yes get some money from me and have tiolet at home. War is not ur thing never was in history either that's why u ruled by outsiders.



Paypal chalega ?
Oh usme to USD dena padega...woh to hai hi nahi..
Koi nahi ..save that money ..will come handy to safeguard your life....

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## mjnaushad

STOP CHEERING FOR LOSS OF LIFE.

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## SMC

KRAIT said:


> Gullible Pakistanis.



You might need to look in the mirror.


----------



## Hareeb

Today in J&K
*#SURPRISE*

View attachment 542288
View attachment 542289

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## maximuswarrior

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



We don’t hide surgical strike. We share it with the world.

PAF at its best!

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## mingle

Viny said:


> Paypal chalega ?
> Oh usme to USD dena padega...woh to hai hi nahi..
> Koi nahi ..save that money ..will come handy to safeguard your life....


Canadian Hai Bahi kis kam pay lagay ho app log. Live and let live U guys r good what I told you I am not taunting u.

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## Viny

Max said:


> Trying to console bharatis?


Possible very much...
But more like showing true face...so that dgispr realize that the pilots he is talking about is from f16...


----------



## CHACHA"G"

The Sandman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080


Masha-Allah …….. Allah-o-Akbar...……… Great Job ,...……… Welldone……….
Edit: Just waiting for what we hit with SOWs (most likely Raad) on the other side... I am sure some military installation , and most probably under IAF use..

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## maximuswarrior

KRAIT said:


> What videos and pics. You showed old pics.
> Showed Mig 27 crashed way ago as Mig 21
> 
> 
> But war has started.



LOL I wanna see you weep blood. Someone feed this fvcker some beef. Hahaha.

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## mjnaushad

Two nuclear nations going to war for few fucking votes. Sad reality of today's world.

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## I.R.A

KRAIT said:


> I am saying ANI has reported it.



We will see now if you have the moral courage to beg for release of your captured pilot(s).

We wanted peace and you mistook it as our weakness ....... you will soon cry tears and we will make sure Insha ALLAH.

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## graphican

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100650855001456642

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## IFB

If really pakistan has got an indian pilot with them alive ...then modi mar gaya in this election .

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## Cash GK

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


they are saying other two jets are our own.. pakistanis are bad bad boys lol

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## Icewolf

Guys does anyone have pictures of the F-16 apparently shot down? I'm seeing pictures of Indian jets being shot down but have to see a picture of that F-16


----------



## fitpOsitive

KRAIT said:


> What videos and pics. You showed old pics.
> Showed Mig 27 crashed way ago as Mig 21
> 
> 
> But war has started.


Which I m not liking.


----------



## Dazzler

When a BVR penetrates, the hole is visible to see for all!

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## maximuswarrior

Hareeb said:


> Today in J&K
> *#SURPRISE*
> 
> View attachment 542288
> View attachment 542289
> View attachment 542290
> View attachment 542291
> View attachment 542292
> View attachment 542293



Saale haramzaade bari chalaange maar rahe the kal. Aaj jawab mil gaya sab ko.

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## Thunder.Storm

Good [emoji61]

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## jupiter2007

Kwame Brown said:


> Hopefully this doesn't get out of hand and cooler heads prevail.



India need to be taught a lesson. These bastards think they can violate our airspace and get away with it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viny

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> You are a funny guy.
> Area is cloudy.


Bhai kya ...abb cloud ka bhi shara loge...kuch to maajein lene do...


----------



## Talon



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## Salza

funny thing is, Indian media is claiming their downed planes as Pakistanis

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## Rusty

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Unlike Gangadeshi, we actually have proof of our claims. 
Still no 350 bodies....

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## Fawadqasim1

ziaulislam said:


> Which begs the question why didnt IAF do that
> They simply droped dumb bombs off target in a hurry


Because it had political motives behind it not military.


----------



## Areesh

IFB said:


> If really pakistan has got an indian pilot with them alive ...then modi mar gaya in this election .



It is official. We have your pilot.

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## Shot-Caller

Viny said:


> Possible very much...
> But more like showing true face...so that dgispr realize that the pilots he is talking about is from f16...


So you're saying Pakistan captured their own pilot? 

Go drink some water your IAF has been taken to the cleaners in clear daylight.


----------



## Wa Muhammada

@mods

Can we plz merge similar threads 


Pak foj ko salam !

Tu Shaheen hai, basera kar pahado ki chatano par


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Cash GK said:


> they are saying other two jets are our own.. pakistanis are bad bad boys lol


lol we have there jet with us in AJ&K , but in pieces …… and one pilot alive with us , searching for 2nd


----------



## Sine Nomine

Hodor said:


> All I know we did a ground strike as well


On serious note we must buy new jets even if humey ghass he khani parey.

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## Arsalan 345

Bindas said:


> This is a Mig crash about half 45 mins to hour ago. Pak media giving wrong info.
> 
> Pakistan jet violation of Indian airspace is different news.



hahahaha


----------



## Max

Viny said:


> But more like showing true face...so that dgispr realize that the pilots he is talking about is from f16...



lol. dont worry he will prade them on TV sooner or latter. where will you go then?


----------



## graphican

*Kashmiris celebrating destruction of IAF jets.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100651551616577537

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## Alpha BeeTee

ISPR says 2 pilots (on the run) in the Azad Kashmir.

Arrest them alive for heaven's sake!!

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## maximuswarrior

Catch the other two vegan bastards. Don’t lose the plot. We are going feast today! Eid has come very early.

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## Arsalan 345

Alpha BeeTee said:


> ISPR says 2 pilots (on the run) in the Azad Kashmir.
> 
> Arrest them alive for heaven's sake!!



kill them on the spot.no mercy.


----------



## Dazzler

Fuselage of the downed aircraft suggests that it was a Fishbed.. 

Claims are being made that both were 21s, downed by thunders.

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## I.R.A

mjnaushad said:


> Two nuclear nations going to war for few fucking votes. Sad reality of today's world.



Till they played their circus I wanted peace ......... now when our military and our soldiers are on move, I wish fear to be drilled deep in hearts of our enemies, so that they don't wish war forever. No peace till they beg for it. Drop this attitude, time is calling for it.

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## Armani

Dazzler said:


> When a BVR penetrates, the hole is visible to see for all!



Missiles do not penetrate sir ji...they come close and then proximity sensor sets off payload explosion.

In short that's not how missile strike on aircraft looks.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## pkuser2k12

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> It's an old pic from crash.




*PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace*

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## JSCh

Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets: Foreign ministry | News | Al Jazeera

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## Arsalan 345

Dazzler said:


> Fuselage of the downed aircraft suggests that it was a Fishbed..
> 
> Claims are being made that both were 21s, downed by thunders.



ne is mi-17.they are showing wreckage on indian side.ajit doval ki waat lug gai hahahaha.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ejaz007

*Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets: military*
Military spokesperson says it shot down two Indian aircraft inside Pakistani airspace and captured one pilot.

7 minutes ago





Indian Air Force light combat aircraft Tejas flies over U.S. Air Force Boeing C-17A Globemaster III on the inaugural day of Aero India 2019 at Yelahanka air base in Bangalore, India, Wednesday, Feb. 20, 2019. Aero India is a biennial event with flying demonstrations by stunt teams and militaries and commercial pavilions where aviation companies display their products and technology. (AP Photo/Aijaz Rahi) [The Associated Press]
*MORE ON ASIA*

Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets: militarytoday
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'India playing with fire': Pakistan-administered Kashmir leadertoday
Pakistan confirmed on Wednesday that it had carried out airstrikes in Indian-administered Kashmir and shot down two Indian jets in its own airspace, capturing one of the pilots as tensions escalate a day after India bombed targets in Pakistan.

"Today, Pakistan Air Force undertook strikes across Line of Control from within Pakistani airspace," the foreign ministry said in a statement on Wednesday.

Earlier, Major General Asif Ghafoor, spokesperson of the Pakistani army, said Indian jets had entered Pakistan in response and two had been shot down, with one pilot captured.

The development comes as Indian officials said at least three Pakistani combat jets entered the airspace over Indian-administered Kashmir on Wednesday but returned after being intercepted by Indian planes.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100641491679150080

In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.


47.5K
11:19 AM - Feb 27, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

39.1K people are talking about this



At least four airports in the northern part of the country, including main airport in Indian-administered Kashmir, was shut down indefinitely on Wednesday amid warnings of a retaliatory attack by Pakistan.

Also on Wednesday, an Indian Air Force plane crashed in Kashmir, killing two pilots and a civilian, a police official said. Further details about the incident were not immediately available.

India on Tuesday said it had launched an air attack inside Pakistan and that its warplanes killed "a very large number" of fighters at a rebel training camp, raising the risk of conflict between the nuclear-armed neighbours.

Pakistan denied there had been casualties, but has warned that it will respond to Indian aggression.

Tensions have risen since a suicide car bombing by Pakistan-based armed group in Indian-administered Kashmir killed at least 42 Indian paramilitary police on February 14.

More soon.

SOURCE: AL JAZEERA AND NEWS AGENCIES

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...an-fighter-jets-military-190227055937142.html

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## ARMalik

Well, well, well ... all of a sudden this is *FRONT LINE NEWS IN AUSTRALIA *that Pakistan has shot Down 2 Indian Jets!!! 
*
There you go you F.King Indians ... TAKE THAT YOU FU*KING COWARDS!!!!*

*https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-27/pakistan-shoots-down-two-indian-jets-in-kashmir/10854976
Pakistan confirms air strikes in Indian-controlled Kashmir, shoots down jets

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/pakistan-has-shot-down-two-indian-aircraft-military-spokesperson-says*

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## IceCold

Areesh said:


> *Official confirmation *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080


Areesh there is no mention off our jets dropping bombs on Indian side. @Windjammer sab ajj app ki zaroorat ha and you are no where to be seen.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Alpha BeeTee

JSCh said:


> Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets: Foreign ministry | News | Al Jazeera


Good!

Our narrative has made it to the Intnl media.

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## Hareeb

maximuswarrior said:


> Saale haramzaade bari chalaange maar rahe the kal. Aaj jawab mil gaya sab ko.


In k baap k trees thay jo bhool jayen gey.

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## Rusty

mjnaushad said:


> Two nuclear nations going to war for few fucking votes. Sad reality of today's world.


Unfortuntly that is the neighbor that Allah has given us. 

We offered so many olive branches but they chose the law of the jungle. 

I pray that one day Allah gives our neighbor a few more IQ points.

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## Techy Hassan

OK the metallic planes were dropped and broken. But still loss to humanity, mankind. Not Happy at all. We should have asked Indian Govt permission to to shower them with flowers in reply to their dropping bombs in our land. Cuz we love them.

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## The Sandman

mjnaushad said:


> Two nuclear nations going to war for few fucking votes. Sad reality of today's world.


We didn't asked for this neither our politicians cash in on hating india it was them who started it we always asked for peace but they didn't wanted it so don't bracket the two.

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## AsifIjaz

I am against the war..
But
Boy oh boy am i happy it was a thunder that downed the iaf aircraft..


Dazzler said:


> Fuselage of the downed aircraft suggests that it was a Fishbed..
> 
> Claims are being made that both were 21s, downed by thunders.

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## maximuswarrior

pkuser2k12 said:


> *PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace*



This only means one thing. The Indians violated Pak airspace AGAIN. Folks. The response is solid. These bastards want to normalize violating our airspace.

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## Canuck786

Dazzler said:


> Fuselage of the downed aircraft suggests that it was a Fishbed..
> 
> Claims are being made that both were 21s, downed by thunders.


May I say your words are like music to my ears.

My kindest regards,
Joyful Pakistani

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

graphican said:


> *Kashmiris celebrating destruction of IAF jets.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100651551616577537



maaza aageyaa. Allah taala ki khaas rahmat hai.

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## khansaheeb

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?


What a stupid question.


----------



## Imran Khan

Ye hoi na bat

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## Shot-Caller

ARMalik said:


> Well, well, well ... all of a sudden this is *FRONT LINE NEWS IN AUSTRALIA *that Pakistan has shot Down 2 Indian Jets!!!
> *
> There you go you F.King Indians ... TAKE THAT YOU FU*KING COWARDS!!!!*
> 
> *https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-27/pakistan-shoots-down-two-indian-jets-in-kashmir/10854976
> Pakistan confirms air strikes in Indian-controlled Kashmir, shoots down jets
> 
> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/pakistan-has-shot-down-two-indian-aircraft-military-spokesperson-says*


Alright then. Its confirmed by international media as well that Pakistan's claims are true and Indian media as usual fooling its audience with lies.

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## ziaulislam




----------



## untitled

That aircraft in pics looks like a BAE Hawk


----------



## IceCold

Armani said:


> Didn't even dare cross LoC


There is something called stand off weapon. Read about it instead of making silly remarks. Does it matter we crossed or not when bombs fell on your side?

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## maximuswarrior

Techy Hassan said:


> OK the metallic planes were dropped and broken. But still loss to humanity, mankind. Not Happy at all. We should have asked Indian Govt permission to to shower them with flowers in reply to their dropping bombs in our land. Cuz we love them.



We don’t care what you think. You come here and show us your humanity when their planes go down. Where are you when the Indians blatantly violate our airspace? Where are you when Kashmiris get killed and raped in broad daylight and the world looks the other way?

The IAF AGAIN violated Pak airspace! They got their answer. You fvck with us, we will destroy you.

Now it is our turn. Like ISPR and Imran Khan said, our time and our place.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

We have a cellmate for Kulbushan, and there will be some new orders for jf-17s.

Let indians chase jaish ghosts which dont exist.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100651486906703872


----------



## IFB

ISPR tweet says they have one pilot in custody...i dont think they are crazy enough to tweet this if they dont have one is custody...this is bad real bad for modi...the main stream fake indian media is going to have a field day with this...all the gains modi made will be gone in one moment...advanced tata bye bye modi ji .


----------



## maverick1977

Imran Khan said:


> Ye hoi na bat



Kaal to tera Randi rona chal raha tha... don’t like pessimistic people... And u were a sheer disappointment

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## Dazzler



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## HydNizam

IceCold said:


> Areesh there is no mention off our jets dropping bombs on Indian side. @Windjammer sab ajj app ki zaroorat ha and you are no where to be seen.



That was addressed by the foreign office 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641652966916096

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## Viny

can anyone confirm this...


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100650519037648896
I believe it is a bird hit, no Pakistani BVR can strike indian jets.

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## KRAIT

maverick1977 said:


> Kaal to tera Randi rona chal raha tha... don’t like pessimistic people... And u were a sheer disappointment


He is a respected poster. Even we Indians admire him even if we speaks against us.

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## SHAH07

KRAIT said:


> Bhai...F-16 is also down. War shuru ho gaya.


Lol in Indian media only.. not in reality.. your media is Bollywood 2

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## Cuirassier

Damn it's a mess out there! Indian ANI says they shot down F16 and ISPR says we shot down 2 jets.


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

CHACHA"G" said:


> *MashaAllah……. welldone ….. great job...… Allah o Akbar*
> jut like what iaf did...………. but what we hit.... where our 4 bombs dropped... what hq ,,,,
> 
> Edit: Look like SOWs ,,,,,,,, may be , just maybe , Raad


They most likely did not hit any relevant target, it was a bait. Indians scrambled their interceptors and were baited, two of them being shot down.

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## Hashsohail

Viny said:


> View attachment 542281


Your media keeps lying to you. I hope you can show debris pictures of F-16 aswell as recover the black box. If not shut the hell up because we have arrested your salman khan.

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100646637159018498

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## Bindas

Any one can glide a bomb over


Alpha BeeTee said:


> ISPR says 2 pilots (on the run) in the Azad Kashmir.
> 
> Arrest them alive for heaven's sake!!




DGISPR Tweet says Captured alive. If Anything else is true, then we would know DGISPR Lies.

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## PatriotLover

HydNizam said:


> That was addressed by the foreign office
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641652966916096



That was just for self defence, we will cross loc and bomb their shit as retaliation soon.


----------



## ZAC1

KRAIT said:


> Bhai...F-16 is also down. War shuru ho gaya.


no f-16 down...its your own ..the second one downed by PAF and fall in IOK..

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## IceCold

HydNizam said:


> That was addressed by the foreign office
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641652966916096


Thanks! so apparently we did struck. What is the Indian official response on this? I am not talking about media but GOI


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

Bindas said:


> Any one can glide a bomb over
> 
> 
> 
> DGISPR Tweet says Captured alive. If Anything else is true, then we would know DGISPR Lies.


He said 1 captured alive..searching for 2


----------



## maximuswarrior

KRAIT said:


> He is a respected poster. Even we Indians admire him even if we speaks against us.



No you don’t. You hate all Pakistanis and you proved it very vividly in the past couple of days.

There is no bhai bhai. Bhai doesn’t violate airspace of another bhai.

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## agamdilawari

*4 Pakistani martyred, 11 other wounded in heavy Indian Military shelling at LoC*


https://timesofislamabad.com/27-Feb...-heavy-indian-military-shelling-at-loc-report


----------



## timmy_area51

it's time to test israeli weapan's systems against , china , russia


----------



## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100652780740595712


----------



## nomi007

*یہ نیا پاکستان ھے*


----------



## KRAIT

maximuswarrior said:


> No you don’t. You hate all Pakistanis and you hav reproved it.


Not Imran Khan.

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## Jackdaws

Pakistan is saying it did not cross LoC but struck from within Pakistan?


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100647489202458624
In Indian occupied kashmir


----------



## Reichsmarschall

This needs to stop right now 
UNSC should intervene enough of madness

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## nomi007

BOLLYWOOD
hope you will make an other film

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## Captain77W

Mashallah first A2A kill of the Thunder


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100653990801477635

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## N.Siddiqui

Hareeb said:


> Today in J&K
> *#SURPRISE*




Damning evidence...send this to IAF and Modi, huge huge setback for India fake chest thumping, Pakistan is well within it's right to go for the kill.

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## Telescopic Sight

pkuser2k12 said:


> *PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace*


these pics are also inaccurate. These are of the Hawk training g plane.


----------



## maverick1977

AyanRay said:


> NDTV is reporting F-16 has crashed. NDTV doesn't normally report unconfirmed news. There are videos too where F-16 pilot parachuting down. The fighter crashed in LAM valley area.




Please share a link of a video


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654265851359232


----------



## AyanRay

IAF denied any fighter being shot down. Right from the horses mouth. Deputy Air chief just confirmed.


----------



## maximuswarrior

timmy_area51 said:


> it's time to test israeli weapan's systems against , china , russia



Not before we celebrate these kills.



KRAIT said:


> Not Imran Khan.



That is BS.


----------



## KRAIT

Pics from Pakistani media...has been debunked by Indian media. All pics are old crashes.

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## Captain77W

Could Pakistani missiles disable Indian FOB’s ?


----------



## maximuswarrior

AyanRay said:


> IAF denied any fighter being shot down



LOL we got their fighter pilot in our custody.

On top of that we should parade our war trophy. We should bring their pilot on media. Don’t waste time. We need to humiliate India in front of the whole word.

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## Telescopic Sight

ZAC1 said:


> no f-16 down...its your own ..the second one downed by PAF and fall in IOK..



I get the bad feeling that you are correct.


----------



## newb3e

Reichsmarschall said:


> This needs to stop right now
> UNSC should intervene enough of madness


you talking like dihati suraj


----------



## Areesh

IceCold said:


> Thanks! so apparently we did struck. What is the Indian official response on this? I am not talking about media but GOI



This is the response 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100596902750384129
Phat gayi hai

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## Armani

Bindas said:


> Any one can glide a bomb over
> 
> 
> 
> DGISPR Tweet says Captured alive. If Anything else is true, then we would know DGISPR Lies.



Media reports saying all IAF pilots accounted for.

Guess Pak wanted to capture some civilian like Kulbushan Yadav and pass him off as IAF pilot

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Taimur Khurram

Good response.


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

Any reports of Indian pilots arrested? 

So far we're only relying on ISPR.
Pak media showing fake visuals

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## N.Siddiqui

Hareeb said:


> Today in J&K
> *#SURPRISE*




Damning evidence...send this to IAF and Modi, huge huge setback for India fake chest thumping, Pakistan is well within it's right to go for the kill.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654934826061824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654146657624064

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## B+ Dracula

Kwame Brown said:


> Hopefully this doesn't get out of hand and cooler heads prevail.


Right Now! Pigheads are leading the Election Campaign at the cost of peace


----------



## karakoram

Imran bhai kal aap bohat he senti ho gaye thay chalo acha hai ke kuch mood bana :-D

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## khansaheeb

If PA show the photo of the downed Indian pilot then Modi is gone.

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## Armani

Areesh said:


> This is the response
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100596902750384129
> Phat gayi hai



That is statement of Pak FM 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641652966916096

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## enquencher

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Pakistan Shot down Two Indian Planes *


That is 2 years old pic...indian and pakistani media are the same


----------



## PatriotLover

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Any reports of Indian pilots arrested?
> 
> So far we're only relying on ISPR.
> Pak media showing fake visuals



*Only post confirmed news*


----------



## maximuswarrior

timmy_area51 said:


> it's 2:1 for now



LOL Iran should also send some help to India. Wasn’t Iran going to fire a ballistic missile against Pakistan yesterday?

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## AyanRay

N.Siddiqui said:


> Damning evidence...send this to IAF and Modi, huge huge setback for India fake chest thumping, Pakistan is well within it's right to go for the kill.



That images, including all other images are either old or photoshopped. Already debunked.

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## N.Siddiqui

Hareeb said:


> Today in J&K
> *#SURPRISE*




Damning evidence...send this to IAF and Modi, huge huge setback for India fake chest thumping, Pakistan is well within it's right to go for the kill.

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## Hareeb

Video - IAF jet shot down by PAF.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654793998032896

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100651930726981632

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100655441510625280

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## Mutakalim

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> maaza aageyaa. Allah taala ki khaas rahmat hai.


Alhamdulillah. We are ready to pay in blood. Now Hindus should come

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## maverick1977

maverick1977 said:


> Please share a link of a video




Confirmed, Jaguar and mig 21 shot down and one mi 17

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## Ghessan

a person at ARY News Channel saying JF-17 targeted the intruding planes, can someone confirm?


----------



## AyanRay

Telescopic Sight said:


> I get the bad feeling that you are correct.



IAF just confirmed, all IAF jets and pilots are accounted for.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PatriotLover

*So far comfirmed:

By DG ISPR: 2 indian jets shot down, 1 pilot captured as POW.*

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## ziaulislam

AyanRay said:


> That images, including all other images are either old or photoshopped. Already debunked.


Obviously any images will be fake ..it will take time for either confirmation or debunking

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## Cash GK

KRAIT said:


> 3 PAF aircrafts did come but got intercepted. No bombs dropped.


lol. something is killing inside you.i can feel your pain..

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## Hareeb

N.Siddiqui said:


> Damning evidence...send this to IAF and Modi, huge huge setback for India fake chest thumping, Pakistan is well within it's right to go for the kill.


These are from Indian sources. I guesss they know it.

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## ZAC1

timmy_area51 said:


> it's 2:1 for now


2:0 janab no PAF jet destroyed 
2 jets of indian air force is downed by jf-17
and one jet of IAF downed due to mallfunction

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654934826061824
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654146657624064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100653447827857409


Last two series of pictures are years old.

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## ziaulislam

AyanRay said:


> IAF just confirmed, all IAF jets and pilots are accounted for.


Except for one technical loss
Will see when things clear up

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## HydNizam

IceCold said:


> Thanks! so apparently we did struck. What is the Indian official response on this? I am not talking about media but GOI



No official response yet. Defence minister, PM and NSA are in a hurdle. 
Airports in north closed for air traffic


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100637892769140737

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## Champs Trophy 2017

These bi*ches asked for this. Now get this cowards. Importantly we are doing this like Men not who*es.


----------



## IceCold

Hodor said:


> View attachment 542296


They think Pakistanis are bengalis who would not stand with their forces. Bring it on!

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## Jackdaws

India rejects Pakistan's claim of Air Force jet being shot down, says all pilots accounted for: sources

Lagta hai khudke hi planes uda diye.

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## AyanRay

ziaulislam said:


> Except for one technical loss
> Will see when things clear up



The helicopter loss, yes it could be brought down by PAF jets, but unlikely. The MI 17 surely didn't try to engage the F-16s

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## newb3e

HydNizam said:


> No official response yet. Defence minister, PM and NSA are in a hurdle.
> Airports in north closed for air traffic


ajit the super spy making supa plan! modi ko chotiye banaye ga 2 takkay ka bhunge


----------



## atya

Hearing 2 pilots arrested now, can anyone confirm??

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## The Sandman

Damn indian media is in real panic mode.... They weren't expecting it...

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## Path-Finder

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Last two series of pictures are years old.


I didn't know i'll delete it!


----------



## HydNizam

According to Indian media reports and on ground there were 4 PAF jets.


----------



## maverick1977

MiG 21, Jaguar and Mi 17

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## The Sandman

atya said:


> Hearing 2 pilots arrested now, can anyone confirm??


Wait for DG ISPR's official statements/conference.


----------



## litman

2nd pilot captured

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## bananarepublic

maverick1977 said:


> Confirmed, Jaguar and mig 21 shot down and one mi 17



confused to as why a MIG-21 Crossed Loc

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## maximuswarrior

atya said:


> Hearing 2 pilots arrested now, can anyone confirm??



Made my day!


----------



## AyanRay

Pakistan media busy showing 2016 old Mig crash videos

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## Rahil khan

Game ONN NOW. We shall se what's gonna happ


Armani said:


> Media reports saying all IAF pilots accounted for.
> 
> Guess Pak wanted to capture some civilian like Kulbushan Yadav and pass him off as IAF pilot



Have some respect for your in service commissioned Naval officer.


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100650611085856768
Pressure mounting on Modi. 
Sow as you reap. Modi is regretting this. Did it for electoral gains, backfired

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## litman

2nd pilot captured

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## karakoram

Sahab hum ghareeb hein par beghairat nahin. :-D Allah o Akbar

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## Muhammad Omar

Did india shot down F-16???


----------



## jupiter2007

litman said:


> 2nd pilot captured

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

This will serve as a reminder that in future, u try any intrusion,it will be responded to.
Now how much they want to escalate is up to the opposing side.

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## Telescopic Sight

bananarepublic said:


> confused to as why a MIG-21 Crossed Loc


Even i am surprised why a jag, a mig 21 will try something like this .
I don't know what is real and perhaps nobody does.
The helicopter does seem to have been shot down.


----------



## ziaulislam

AyanRay said:


> ANI has images it seems of F-16 pilot in parachutes.


Possible ..wait & see


----------



## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100645790605889536

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## timmy_area51

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Iran should also send some help to India. Wasn’t Iran going to fire a ballistic missile against Pakistan yesterday?



what do you mean mate , iran gave it's lip service against the terrorist group Jaish El Mo ,  if iran fires a ballistic missile at pakistan pakistan will fire a nuke at iran . 

you got iran's lip service and israel's spiderman what more do you want .

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## maverick1977

Modi just lost his elections ...

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## Amigator

Muhammad Omar said:


> Did india shot down F-16???


Not confirmed


----------



## Signalian

*Pakistan shoots down two Indian aircraft*

*The Sydney Morning Herald Reports.*

*https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/pakistan-shoots-down-two-indian-aircraft-20190227-p510p4.html*

Islamabad: Pakistan has shot down two Indian jets, a spokesman for the Pakistan armed forces said, a day after Indian warplanes struck inside Pakistan for the first time since 1971, prompting leading powers to urge the nuclear armed rivals to show restraint.

Tensions have been elevated since a suicide car bombing by Pakistan-based militants in Indian-controlled Kashmir killed at least 40 Indian paramilitary police on February 14, but the risk of conflict rose dramatically on Tuesday after India launched an air strike claiming it hit a militant training base.

The attack targeted the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant, the group that claimed credit for the suicide attack. But while India said a large number of JeM fighters had been killed, Pakistani officials said the Indian air strike was a failure and inflicted no casualties. Pakistan then vowed to carry out a "befitting" response.

Then on Wednesday afternoon, Indian air force planes strayed into Pakistani airspace after Pakistan had carried out air strikes in Indian-occupied Kashmir, said Major General Asif Ghafoor, a spokesman for the Pakistan armed forces.

"PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace," he said in a tweet.

One of the aircraft fell on India-held Kashmir, while the second came down in Pakistani-held territory, and its pilot was captured, he added.







barkha dutt

✔@BDUTT
https://twitter.com/BDUTT/status/1100632019393040391

From #Kashmir bad news... @szaffariqbal reporting on an IAF crash in Budgam


1,191
4:41 PM - Feb 27, 2019

1,989 people are talking about this

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A spokesman for India's Defence Ministry was not immediately available for comment.

Police officials in Indian-occupied Kashmir said that two Indian pilots and a civilian had died after an Indian air force plane crashed in Kashmir, but did not confirm if the plane had been shot down by Pakistani forces.


Indian officials said three Pakistani jets had also entered Indian airspace, before being intercepted and forced turned back.

The Indian air force has ordered Kashmir's main airport in Srinagar along with at least three others in neighbouring states to be closed, an official said.

On Tuesday evening, Pakistan began shelling using heavy calibre weapons in 12 to 15 places along the de facto border in Kashmir, known as the Line of Control (LoC), a spokesman for the Indian defence forces said.

"The Indian Army retaliated for effect and our focused fire resulted in severe destruction to five posts and number of casualties," the spokesman said.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100641491679150080

In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.


60.1K
5:19 PM - Feb 27, 2019
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Five Indian soldiers suffered minor wounds in the shelling that ended on Wednesday morning, he added.

"So far there are no [civilian] casualties but there is panic among people," said Rahul Yadav, the deputy commissioner of the Poonch district where some of the shelling took place.

"We have an evacuation plan in place and if need arises we will evacuate people to safer areas,” he said.

Local officials on the Pakistani side said at least four people had been killed and seven wounded, though it was unclear if the casualties were civilian or military.

India has also continued its crackdown on suspected militants operating in Kashmir, a mountainous region that both countries claim in full but rule in part.


On Wednesday, security forces killed two JoM militants in a gun battle, Indian police said.

Heightened security

Pakistan had promised to retaliate Tuesday's air strikes, and security across India has been tightened. The two countries have fought three wars since independence from British colonial rule in 1947 and went to the brink a fourth in 2002 after a Pakistani militant attack on the Indian Parliament.

In Mumbai, India's financial capital, there was a visible increase in security levels for a city that has suffered numerous militant attacks in the past.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who is in Vietnam, spoke separately with the foreign ministers of India and Pakistan and urged them to avoid "further military activity".


"I expressed to both ministers that we encourage India and Pakistan to exercise restraint, and avoid escalation at any cost," Pompeo said in a statement.

"I also encouraged both ministers to prioritise direct communication and avoid further military activity," he said.

View image on Twitter





Ansar Abbasi

✔@AnsarAAbbasi
https://twitter.com/AnsarAAbbasi/status/1100644183482744832

Gift for India from Pakistan!!! Pakistan




Zindabad


2,074
5:29 PM - Feb 27, 2019

827 people are talking about this

Twitter Ads info and privacy


Both China and the European Union have also called for restraint. On Wednesday New Zealand's Deputing Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters also voiced concern over the escalation in tensions.

Reuters

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## Hiraa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100655361151901696
Any truth to this?


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## Talwar e Pakistan

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Pakistan Shot down Two Indian Planes *


Old picture.


----------



## mingle

I feel more new and used F16 will come such a formidable weapon king of sky


----------



## maverick1977

bananarepublic said:


> confused to as why a MIG-21 Crossed Loc




I am wondering about Jaguar being shot down ...

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## Amigator

2 Indian jet shot down on International Media Asia Watch but no news on PAF jet shot down


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## ziaulislam

Telescopic Sight said:


> Even i am surprised why a jag, a mig 21 will try something like this .
> I don't know what is real and perhaps nobody does.
> The helicopter does seem to have been shot down.


Probably Pakistan baited them..
You go in disperse ..with second team ready to kill

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## The Sandman

Hiraa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100655361151901696
> Any truth to this?


ARY saying same CAA will notify officially soon


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## salman-1

Which aircrafts have been shot down. One seems to be Mig 21 in a cross loc and others tail seems to be Mig 29. Comments required


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## litman

2nd pilot captured

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## PakShaheen79

Parade captured pilots on TV screens and Indian will have no where to run with their propaganda. 2 surprises in one day by PAF. First strike inside IOK to prove the point and then downing 2 IAF jets. Now let's see how Indians climb on escalation ladder.

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## pkuser2k12

*Pakistan Airforce Jets have successfully hit targets across the border - Foreign Office confirms*


*



*

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## N.Siddiqui

Hareeb said:


> These are from Indian sources. I guesss they know it.




What was the Indian source...any link. BTW that kill was a huge blow to India and specially the capture of Indian IAF pilot is biggest blow to India, another will be captured on the run. 

There is no comparison in the preparedness and professional levels of PAF and IAF...

Wait for further optics to name and shame India with parading of Indian pilot in front of media.

This all done in broad daylight, compare this with India attacking Balakot after midnight.

Was the biggest surprise, Indian media looking flabbergasted and looking awed....

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## Bindas

2016 and 1018 crashes shown in Pakistan media why ?


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## bananarepublic

Telescopic Sight said:


> Even i am surprised why a jag, a mig 21 will try something like this .
> I don't know what is real and perhaps nobody does.
> The helicopter does seem to have been shot down.



probably paf launched attacks on IOK and IAF tried to intercept them resulting in them getting shot down

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100646148585467904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100645380897812480

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## ziaulislam

KRAIT said:


> I am saying ANI has reported it.


Will wait for official /iaf/India briefing


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## Great Janjua

24 news live video Indian pilot

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## ziaulislam

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100646148585467904
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100645380897812480


Ispr will loose its credibility if unconfirmed .


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## cerberus

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Pakistan Airforce Jets have successfully hit targets across the border - Foreign Office confirms*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


that was MI-17 helos confirmed now lol

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## Signalian

*Kashmir escalation: Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets'*


15 minutes ago

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Image copyrightEPA
Image captionIndian warplanes crossed the line of control and struck targets in Pakistan on Tuesday
Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian Air Force jets in a major escalation of the Kashmir conflict.

An army spokesman said one of the planes had fallen inside Pakistan and a pilot had been arrested. There is no confirmation from India which claimed to have shot down a Pakistani aircraft.

Pakistan earlier said it had hit Indian targets, a day after India struck militants in Pakistan.

The raids follow a militant attack in Kashmir which killed 40 Indian troops.

Skip Twitter post by @OfficialDGISPR
"); background-position: 16px 13px; border: 0px solid rgb(255, 255, 255); border-radius: 4px; font-weight: initial; margin: 10px 0px; padding: 0px; visibility: visible; display: block; position: static; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px;">



Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100641491679150080

In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.


61.5K
5:19 PM - Feb 27, 2019
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Report
End of Twitter post by @OfficialDGISPR

Also on Wednesday, Pakistan's foreign ministry said Pakistani jets had launched air strikes across the Line of Control (LoC) dividing Pakistani- and Indian-controlled Kashmir.

Pakistan said it had "taken strikes at [a] non-military target, avoiding human loss and collateral damage".

Indian authorities said the Pakistani jets had been pushed back.


Viewpoint: India strikes in Pakistan a major escalation
What is militant group Jaish-e-Mohammad?
Why India and Pakistan dispute Kashmir
India has also reportedly announced restrictions on its airspace. The Vistara airline said flights in the region were being suspended.

The aerial attacks across the LoC are the first since a war between the two countries in 1971.

Troops have also been shelling across the LoC. Four Pakistani civilians were killed and 10 others were injured in cross-border shelling on Tuesday.

On the Indian side, five soldiers were also injured in the firing, officials told the BBC. Schools in at least two districts along the LoC - Rajouri and Poonch - have been closed.

People living along the de facto border have been asked to leave their homes.

Both India and Pakistan claim all of Muslim-majority Kashmir, but control only parts of it. The two nuclear powers have fought three wars and a limited conflict since independence from Britain in 1947 - and all but one were over Kashmir.









*Timeline of India-Pakistan tensions*





Media captionIn December Yogita Limaye examined why there had been a rise in violence in Kashmir
*October 1947:* First war between India and Pakistan over Kashmir just two months after they become independent nations.

*August 1965: *The neighbours fight another brief war over Kashmir.

*December 1971:* India supports East Pakistan's bid to become independent. The Indian air force conducts bombing raids inside Pakistan. The war ends with the creation of Bangladesh.

*May 1999:* Pakistani soldiers and militants occupy Indian military posts in Kargil mountains. India launches air and ground strikes and the intruders are pushed back.

*October 2001: *A devastating attack on the state assembly in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 38. Two months later, an attack on the Indian parliament in Delhi leaves 14 dead.

*November 2008:* Co-ordinated attacks on Mumbai's main railway station, luxury hotels and a Jewish cultural centre kill 166 people. India blames Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

*January 2016:* Four-day attack on Indian air base in Pathankot leaves seven Indian soldiers and six militants dead.

*18 September 2016:* Attack on army base in Uri in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 19 soldiers.

*30 September 2016: *India says it carried "surgical strikes" on militants in Pakistani Kashmir. Islamabad denies strikes took place.


----------



## ziaulislam

India has neither denied nor confirmed news

Deescalation is immediately needed

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100649004780711936

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## j20611

Jackdaws said:


> India rejects Pakistan's claim of Air Force jet being shot down, says all pilots accounted for: sources
> 
> Lagta hai khudke hi planes uda diye.


Of course all iaf pilots are accounted for including the one eating a roast beef sandwich in a Pakistani jail and the other burnt to a crisp

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## jetray

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Pakistan Shot down Two Indian Planes *


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/i...s-in-jodhpur-pilot-ejects-safely-2915351.html

*IAF's MiG-27 fighter jet crashes in Jodhpur, pilot ejects safely*
*A Court of Inquiry will investigate the cause of the incident, defence spokesperson Colonel Sombit Ghosh said.*
PTI@moneycontrolcom







A MiG-27 fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force crashed in an agriculture field in Jodhpur's Banad area during a routine mission Tuesday morning, but no loss of life was reported with the pilot ejecting safely.

A Court of Inquiry will investigate the cause of the incident, defence spokesperson Colonel Sombit Ghosh said.

"The MiG-27 aircraft airborne from Jodhpur crashed during a routine mission today morning. The pilot ejected safely," he said.

The Russian-made single-seater tactical strike fighter crashed within minutes of taking off from the Jodhpur airbase. The pilot was taken to a hospital in an IAF helicopter.


Deputy Commissioner of Police, Jodhpur East, Amandeep Singh Kapoor told PTI that the incident occurred in Dangyawas police station area and no loss of life or property was reported.

"Police rushed to the spot and cordoned off the area. IAF investigating team has also reached the spot," he said.

Eyewitnesses said that they saw two fighter jets flying together, but one of them suddenly took a turn towards the open field and crashed near Devalia village in Banad area.

"Two fighter jets were flying together, but suddenly one of them changed its course and took a turn towards the open area and crashed. We saw the pilot ejecting and he parachuted in to the agriculture field," Sunil Bishnoi, one of the eyewitnesses, said.

"We believe the pilot turned the aircraft towards the field in order to avoid the crash in a populated area," he said.


----------



## Icewolf

Rusty said:


> Unfortuntly that is the neighbor that Allah has given us.
> 
> We offered so many olive branches but they chose the law of the jungle.
> 
> I pray that one day Allah gives our neighbor a few more IQ points.




Exactly. Indians DO NOT WANT PEACE. Imran Khan stated many times that both of the countries should come talk together and resolve issues peacefully but India wanted nothing to do with it

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## Armani

Signalian said:


> *Pakistan shoots down two Indian aircraft*
> 
> *The Sydney Morning Herald Reports.*
> 
> *https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/pakistan-shoots-down-two-indian-aircraft-20190227-p510p4.html*
> 
> Islamabad: Pakistan has shot down two Indian jets, a spokesman for the Pakistan armed forces said, a day after Indian warplanes struck inside Pakistan for the first time since 1971, prompting leading powers to urge the nuclear armed rivals to show restraint.
> 
> Tensions have been elevated since a suicide car bombing by Pakistan-based militants in Indian-controlled Kashmir killed at least 40 Indian paramilitary police on February 14, but the risk of conflict rose dramatically on Tuesday after India launched an air strike claiming it hit a militant training base.
> 
> The attack targeted the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant, the group that claimed credit for the suicide attack. But while India said a large number of JeM fighters had been killed, Pakistani officials said the Indian air strike was a failure and inflicted no casualties. Pakistan then vowed to carry out a "befitting" response.
> 
> Then on Wednesday afternoon, Indian air force planes strayed into Pakistani airspace after Pakistan had carried out air strikes in Indian-occupied Kashmir, said Major General Asif Ghafoor, a spokesman for the Pakistan armed forces.
> 
> "PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace," he said in a tweet.
> 
> One of the aircraft fell on India-held Kashmir, while the second came down in Pakistani-held territory, and its pilot was captured, he added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barkha dutt
> 
> ✔@BDUTT
> 
> From #Kashmir bad news... @szaffariqbal reporting on an IAF crash in Budgam
> 
> 
> 1,191
> 4:41 PM - Feb 27, 2019
> 
> 1,989 people are talking about this
> 
> Twitter Ads info and privacy
> 
> 
> A spokesman for India's Defence Ministry was not immediately available for comment.
> 
> Police officials in Indian-occupied Kashmir said that two Indian pilots and a civilian had died after an Indian air force plane crashed in Kashmir, but did not confirm if the plane had been shot down by Pakistani forces.
> 
> 
> Indian officials said three Pakistani jets had also entered Indian airspace, before being intercepted and forced turned back.
> 
> The Indian air force has ordered Kashmir's main airport in Srinagar along with at least three others in neighbouring states to be closed, an official said.
> 
> On Tuesday evening, Pakistan began shelling using heavy calibre weapons in 12 to 15 places along the de facto border in Kashmir, known as the Line of Control (LoC), a spokesman for the Indian defence forces said.
> 
> "The Indian Army retaliated for effect and our focused fire resulted in severe destruction to five posts and number of casualties," the spokesman said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor
> 
> ✔@OfficialDGISPR
> 
> In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.
> 
> 
> 60.1K
> 5:19 PM - Feb 27, 2019
> Twitter Ads info and privacy
> 
> 48K people are talking about this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Five Indian soldiers suffered minor wounds in the shelling that ended on Wednesday morning, he added.
> 
> "So far there are no [civilian] casualties but there is panic among people," said Rahul Yadav, the deputy commissioner of the Poonch district where some of the shelling took place.
> 
> "We have an evacuation plan in place and if need arises we will evacuate people to safer areas,” he said.
> 
> Local officials on the Pakistani side said at least four people had been killed and seven wounded, though it was unclear if the casualties were civilian or military.
> 
> India has also continued its crackdown on suspected militants operating in Kashmir, a mountainous region that both countries claim in full but rule in part.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, security forces killed two JoM militants in a gun battle, Indian police said.
> 
> Heightened security
> 
> Pakistan had promised to retaliate Tuesday's air strikes, and security across India has been tightened. The two countries have fought three wars since independence from British colonial rule in 1947 and went to the brink a fourth in 2002 after a Pakistani militant attack on the Indian Parliament.
> 
> In Mumbai, India's financial capital, there was a visible increase in security levels for a city that has suffered numerous militant attacks in the past.
> 
> US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who is in Vietnam, spoke separately with the foreign ministers of India and Pakistan and urged them to avoid "further military activity".
> 
> 
> "I expressed to both ministers that we encourage India and Pakistan to exercise restraint, and avoid escalation at any cost," Pompeo said in a statement.
> 
> "I also encouraged both ministers to prioritise direct communication and avoid further military activity," he said.
> 
> View image on Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ansar Abbasi
> 
> ✔@AnsarAAbbasi
> 
> Gift for India from Pakistan!!! Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> Zindabad
> 
> 
> 2,074
> 5:29 PM - Feb 27, 2019
> 
> 827 people are talking about this
> 
> Twitter Ads info and privacy
> 
> 
> Both China and the European Union have also called for restraint. On Wednesday New Zealand's Deputing Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters also voiced concern over the escalation in tensions.
> 
> Reuters



Now an image of Hawk jet trainer crash from 2015 being passed off as shot down by PAF 

https://odishasuntimes.com/iaf-fighter-plane-crashes-in-odishas-mayurbhanj/

Tail number - A3492

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## PatriotLover

Signalian said:


> *Pakistan shoots down two Indian aircraft*




Thats a Hawk trainer crash in eastern india in 2018.

Please post only confirmed news.

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## Signalian

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pakistan-airforce-shoots-down-indian-warplane-pilot-captured

*Pakistan says it shot down 2 Indian warplanes, captured pilot*

Pakistan’s air force shot down two Indian warplanes Wednesday after they crossed the Kashmir border and captured a pilot, a Pakistani military official said.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100641491679150080

In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.


62.2K
5:19 PM - Feb 27, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

49.5K people are talking about this



Tensions have been simmering between the two nuclear-powers after India launched an airstrike Tuesday following a suicide bombing that killed more than 40 soldiers in India’s section of the disputed territory of Kashmir earlier this month.

Indian air force spokesman Anupam Banerjee in New Delhi told the Associated Press he has no information on the incident.

GET THE FOX NEWS APP

Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan was expected to convene the National Command Authority on Wednesday to discuss Islamabad's response to the incursions by Indian warplanes.

Residents on both sides of the de-facto frontier, the so-called Line of Control, said there were exchanges of fire between the two sides through the night. In Pakistan's part of Kashmir, hundreds of villagers have fled border towns.

_Fox News' Louis Casiano and The Associated Press contributed_


----------



## darksider

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100647568017580032

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## mjnaushad

What is official statement from Indian side? Not the media version.


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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100646977094733824


ziaulislam said:


> Ispr will loose its credibility if unconfirmed .


They have claimed a pilot captured,they know they can't lie.

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## GlobalMillitary96

Wow, I must say that the Indian Airforce made a major blunder by expecting no response. Very solid response by Pakistan.

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## Telescopic Sight

ziaulislam said:


> Probably Pakistan baited them..
> You go in disperse ..with second team ready to kill





bananarepublic said:


> probably paf launched attacks on IOK and IAF tried to intercept them resulting in them getting shot down



Whatever the case may be, the capture of an iaf pilot , if true , will be a huge setback for the Indian govt.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100647281391472645
Actually he wants to say- I cannot say anything until doval and RAW cook up some story for this


----------



## Bindas

[SIZE=6 said:


> "PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace," he said in a tweet.
> 
> One of the aircraft fell on India-held Kashmir, while the second came down in Pakistani-held territory, and its pilot was captured, he added.[/SIZE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor
> 
> ✔@OfficialDGISPR
> 
> 
> View image on Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ansar Abbasi
> 
> ✔@AnsarAAbbasi
> 
> Gift for India from Pakistan!!! Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zindabad
> 
> 
> 2,074
> 5:29 PM - Feb 27, 2019
> 
> 827 people are talking about this
> 
> Twitter Ads info and privacy
> 
> 
> Both China and the European Union have also called for restraint. On Wednesday New Zealand's Deputing Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters also voiced concern over the escalation in tensions.
> 
> Reuters




Above pic is fake. it is of hawk trainer crashed in 2018 in Orrisa. Anyone can check. Fake Pakistani propaganda. O


----------



## Signalian

Armani said:


> Now an image of Hawk jet trainer crash from 2015 being passed off as shot down by PAF
> 
> https://odishasuntimes.com/iaf-fighter-plane-crashes-in-odishas-mayurbhanj/
> 
> Tail number - A3492


*Pakistan shoots down two Indian warplanes and captures pilot*
By Sunita Patel-Carstairs, news reporter

Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian warplanes over Kashmir and captured one of the pilots.

An army spokesman said the country's air force shot down the jets after they crossed the boundary between the two nuclear rivals in the disputed territory.

Sponsored link



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Major General Asif Ghafoor said one plane went down in Indian-controlled Kashmir and another crashed on its own territory where Pakistani troops on the ground arrested the pilot.

It comes a day after Pakistan threatened India with retaliation after its rival launched an airstrike against militants in the Pakistan-controlled part of Kashmir.

Maj Gen Ghafoor warned New Delhi in a news conference on Tuesday: "It is your turn now to wait and get ready for our surprise."

India said its strike inside Pakistan was to prevent the Jaish-e-Mohammad group from launching an attack.


The Pakistan-based militant group claimed it had carried out a suicide bombing on a convoy of India's paramilitary forces in Indian-controlled Kashmir on 14 February, killing 40 troops.

https://news.sky.com/story/pakistan-shoots-down-two-indian-warplanes-and-captures-pilot-11649515



PatriotLover said:


> Thats a Hawk trainer crash in eastern india in 2018.
> 
> Please post only confirmed news.


The news is confirmed, there are multiple channels reporting it.


----------



## scionofPakwattan

so it was 2 migs that Pakistan shot down according to samaa news


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100651454350741504
Instructions to Indian media from Modi . Don’t report this embarrassing situation

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## Srinivas

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100650519037648896
> I believe it is a bird hit, no Pakistani BVR can strike indian jets.



That is a Mi17 helicopter tail you are talking about, I guess !


----------



## scionofPakwattan

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/i...ministered-kashmir-both-pilots-reported-dead/


----------



## newb3e

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100647281391472645
> Actually he wants to say- I cannot say anything until doval and RAW cook up some story for this


doval and modi will destory india!

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## Arsalan 345

pakistan captured indian pilot and iaf denies that it's their fighter jet hahahaha.lol

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## maximuswarrior

timmy_area51 said:


> Did pakistan bomb indian muslins ?



If they did really awesome.

Why don’t the Iranians come to rescue India?


----------



## Signalian

*Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets after dropping bombs across de facto border: Sources*

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/s...er-jets-intercept-pakistani-planes-in-kashmir

SRINAGAR/NEW DELHI (REUTERS, AFP, BLOOMBERG) - Pakistan shot down two Indian Air Force planes in its airspace in Kashmir on Wednesday (Feb 27), a military spokesman said, adding that one Indian pilot had been captured.

“PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace,” tweeted military spokesman Major General Asif Ghafoor, adding that one aircraft had fallen in Pakistani-held Kashmir, while the other crashed on the Indian side.

“One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area,” he said without elaborating further. 

News agency ANI reported that India also shot down a Pakistan air force F-16 fighter jet. The fighter jet was shot down in Indian retaliatory fire 3km within Pakistan territory in Lam valley, Nowshera sector.

Islamabad said it had struck across the Line of Control, the de facto border between India and Pakistan, from “within Pakistani airspace”.

“This was not a retaliation to continued Indian belligerence. Pakistan has therefore, taken strikes at non-military target, avoiding human loss and collateral damage. Sole purpose being to demonstrate our right, will and capability for self-defence,” Islamabad said in a statement.




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“This is unprecedented territory, we haven’t had tit-for-tat air strikes between India and Pakistan since the 1971 war,” said Mr Anit Mukherjee, a former Indian Army major and assistant professor at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore, by phone.

“We don’t know what will come from this. But it seems like Pakistan has given a response. And there have been casualties – captures, deaths.”

“We have had this sort of thing happening on the ground for the last 20 years,” Mr Mukherjee added. “It’s basically a shifting of the conflict to the air.”

CNN-IBN reported that commercial air traffic had been shut down in Chandigarh, Leh and the whole of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, with some flights to Jammu and Srinagar returning to their cities of origin. 

India and Pakistan exchanged fire along their contested border in Kashmir on Wednesday (Feb 27), a day after Indian warplanes struck inside Pakistan for the first time since a war in 1971, while leading powers urged the nuclear armed rivals to show restraint.

Tensions have been elevated since a suicide car bombing by Pakistan-based militants in Indian-controlled Kashmir killed at least 40 Indian paramilitary police on Feb 14, but the risk of conflict rose dramatically on Tuesday when India launched an air strike on what it said was a militant training base.

The attack targeted the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group, which claimed credit for the suicide attack.

But while India said a large number of JeM fighters had been killed, Pakistani officials said the Indian air strike was a failure and inflicted no casualties.

On Tuesday evening, Pakistan began shelling using heavy calibre weapons in 12 to 15 places along the de facto border in Kashmir, known as the Line of Control (LoC), a spokesman for the Indian defence forces said on Wednesday.

Indian fighter jets strike Pakistan terror camp, Islamabad vows response[/paste:font]
After India's strike on Pakistan, both sides leave room for de-escalation[/paste:font]
Decades of animosity between neighbours India and Pakistan[/paste:font]
"The Indian Army retaliated for effect and our focused fire resulted in severe destruction to five posts and number of casualties," the spokesman said.

Five Indian soldiers suffered minor wounds in the shelling that ended on Wednesday morning, he added.

"So far there are no (civilian) casualties, but there is panic among people," said Poonch district deputy commissioner Rahul Yadav said.

"We have an evacuation plan in place and if need arises we will evacuate people to safer areas," he said.

Local officials on the Pakistani side said at least four people had been killed and seven wounded, though it was unclear if the casualties were civilian or military.

India has also continued its crackdown on suspected militants operating in Kashmir, a mountainous region that both countries claim in full but rule in part.

On Wednesday, security forces killed two Jaish militants in a gun battle, Indian police said.

*HEIGHTENED SECURITY*
Pakistan had promised to retaliate over Tuesday's air strikes, and security across India has been tightened.

The two countries have fought three wars since independence from British colonial rule in 1947 and went to the brink of a fourth war in 2002 after a Pakistani militant attack on India's Parliament.

In Punjab, an Indian state that borders Pakistan, security alerts are in place in several districts, according to media reports.

Top US diplomat Pompeo urges India and Pakistan to ‘exercise restraint’[/paste:font]
China urges India, Pakistan to 'exercise restraint' after air strike[/paste:font]
Kashmiris hoard food, fuel in panic amid India-Pakistan row[/paste:font]
Schools within 5 kilometres of LoC were closed in one district in Kashmir.

In Mumbai, India's financial capital, there was a visible increase in security levels in a city that has suffered numerous militant attacks in the past.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo spoke separately with the foreign ministers of India and Pakistan and urged them to avoid "further military activity" following Tuesday's air strike.

"I expressed to both ministers that we encourage India and Pakistan to exercise restraint, and avoid escalation at any cost," Mr Pompeo said in a statement on Wednesday.

"I also encouraged both ministers to prioritise direct communication and avoid further military activity," he said.

Both China and the European Union have also called for restraint.

On Wednesday, New Zealand's Foreign Minister Winston Peters also voiced concern over the escalation in tensions.

Pakistan has sought help from the United Nations to de-escalate the situation, while India – which is facing national elections in a few weeks – reached out to countries including the US, UK, China, France and Russia and urged the government in Islamabad to take action against terror groups based in the country.

India, Russia and China issued a joint communique on Wednesday after a meeting of their foreign ministers in which they said that extremist groups cannot be supported and used in political and geopolitical goals, and those backing terrorist acts must be held accountable and brought to justice.


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## GlobalMillitary96

ziaulislam said:


> Probably Pakistan baited them..
> You go in disperse ..with second team ready to kill



Exactly what I was thinking. Bring them into your territory then shoot them down, very simple yet effective tactic.

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## Rusty

We are better than Indians, only post confirmed news/pictures please!!!

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## Flash_Ninja

enquencher said:


> That is 2 years old pic...indian and pakistani media are the same



Fake-news and warmongering isn't nearly as bad in Pakistan. Someone posted a clip in the other thread of some Indian channel and the screeching and baying for war just made me roll my eyes.

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## Count Dracula

LOL looks like DG ISPR had to made some strong statement to save face again.

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## Robinhood Pandey

Great Janjua said:


> Indian pilot wounded caprured
> View attachment 542303











Thats a Suryakiran plane pilot who was injured in the Aero India accident.

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## Shabi1

Armani said:


> Now an image of Hawk jet trainer crash from 2015 being passed off as shot down by PAF
> 
> https://odishasuntimes.com/iaf-fighter-plane-crashes-in-odishas-mayurbhanj/
> 
> Tail number - A3492


You are right. That is why ISPR has said not to believe news other than shared by ISPR. I was watching on TV and when anchor asked verification of videos and pictures FM said to everything will be shared by ISPR.


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## timmy_area51

This is the latest from russian news agency TaaS


----------



## indian my friend

There is a definite possibility that 2 mig 21 or 1 mi17 chopper is down as i have seen in indian media .
F16 story can also be true because parachute landing was reported.
Where is our main beast su30mki why are we saving it for airshows?


----------



## hunter_hunted

KRAIT said:


> What videos and pics. You showed old pics.
> Showed Mig 27 crashed way ago as Mig 21
> 
> 
> But war has started.



what is your fascination with word WAR

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## Great Janjua

Robinhood Pandey said:


> Thats a Suryakiran plane pilot who was injured in the Aero India accident.


My bad


----------



## Count Dracula

That charred body of crashed pilot, which is doing rounds, is from earlier. pdf members may remember.


----------



## Armani

thebaj said:


> https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/i...ministered-kashmir-both-pilots-reported-dead/



Video is of Mi-17 crash, picture is of Hawk jet trainer crash from 2015.

 MIGs


----------



## conworldus

This is gruesome. I saw the charred body of the pilot. Are you able to identify the plane type?



darksider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100647568017580032


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## Telescopic Sight

On God , now their media is show I g the S urya Kiran crash pilots !?!?

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## maximuswarrior

Count Dracula said:


> LOL looks like DG ISPR had to made some strong statement to save face again.



LOL we got your pilot and shot your fighters like flies out of thin air. Hahaha.

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## mingle

Second Indian pilot also arrested by Pak parade them then court martial them simple

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## Longhorn

Telescopic Sight said:


> Whatever the case may be, the capture of an iaf pilot , if true , will be a huge setback for the Indian govt.


Keep him till after the Indian election. Show him on TV as the Indians are going to vote.

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## Aasimkhan

Armani said:


> Missiles do not penetrate sir ji...they come close and then proximity sensor sets off payload explosion.
> 
> In short that's not how missile strike on aircraft looks.


Haha, bhai proximity fuse activates in case there is no direct impact. There are two fuses, proximity and impact. This is a direct impact. A perfect kill


----------



## timmy_area51

maximuswarrior said:


> If they did really awesome.
> 
> Why don’t the Iranians come to rescue India?



well if iran came to rescue india that would be the end of Uma dream. countries like saudi arabia use that excuse against iran .. iran's inaction is a rescue by itself

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## jupiter2007

PakShaheen79 said:


> Parade captured pilots on TV screens and Indian will have no where to run with their propaganda. 2 surprises in one day by PAF. First strike inside IOK to prove the point and then downing 2 IAF jets. Now let's see how Indians climb on escalation ladder.



Indians are shameless lying sun of a beach.
Their media is propaganda machine against Pakistan, these fokers have 1000 channels and each channel runs propaganda campaign against Pakistan.


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## maximuswarrior

Longhorn said:


> Keep him till after the Indian election. Show him on TV as the Indians are going to vote.



Modi wanted to win elections LOL

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## Robinhood Pandey

Great Janjua said:


> My bad



So far . . all i have seen is old crashes and some random pics from pakistani media as "exclusives"

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## maximuswarrior

timmy_area51 said:


> well if iran came to rescue india that would be the end of Uma dream. countries like saudi arabia use that excuse against iran .. iran's inaction is a rescue by itself



When are you going to fire the ballistic missile at Pakistan?

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## Jugger

Showing old pics and old videos is not a good proof for Pakistan.

Nothing is true until confirmed.

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## Bindas

Shabi1 said:


> You are right. That is why ISPR has said not to believe news other than shared by ISPR. I was watching on TV and when anchor asked verification of videos and pictures FM said to everything will be shared by ISPR.



You have to show downed indian jet in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. And Captured Pilot. And 2 Indian pilots are running. 3 pilots one plane. ?
Lets wait.


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## marcos98

The fog of war thick as f**k

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## Alpha BeeTee

Guys STOP jumping up and down untill conclusive evidence is given.

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## Bratva

litman said:


> 2nd pilot captured



Source ????


----------



## Signalian

*Pakistan captures Indian pilot after 'shooting down two Indian jets'*



Pakistan said on Wednesday morning it had shot down two Indian jets and carried out strikes into its neighbour to demonstrate its right to self defence a day after Indian jets hit its own territory.

A statement from Pakistan's foreign ministry, said the Pakistan air force launched strikes across the disputed line of control in Kashmir.

It said strikes had been taken at non-military targets avoiding civilian casualties.

The claim came a little over 24 hours after Delhi said it had struck a Jaish-e-Mohammad training camp near Balakot where it said militants were preparing for imminent terrorist attacks.

Islamabad had denied any camp was struck, but on Tuesday warned India to prepare for a surprise and vowed a "befitting" response at a time and place of its choosing.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100641491679150080

In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.


64.7K
5:19 PM - Feb 27, 2019
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In a statement headed "Pakistan strikes back", the foreign ministry said the action was not retaliation " to continued Indian belligerence".

"Pakistan has therefore, taken strikes at non military target, avoiding human loss and collateral damage. Sole purpose being to demonstrate our right, will and capability for self defence. 

A spokesman for Pakistan's military said that Indian jets had then crossed the line of control and the Pakistan air forces had gone on to shoot two of them down inside Pakistani airspace.


"One of the aircraft fell inside Azad Jammu and Kashmir, while other fell inside Indian Occupied Kashmir. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area," said Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor.

There was no immediate response from Delhi, but Indian media did report an Indian air force jet crashed in Indian-controlled Kashmir on Wednesday morning.

Delhi said on Tuesday it had said it had struck a pre-emptive blow against the Pakistan-based militant group it blames for a suicide bomb that killed at least 40 paramilitary police in Kashmir earlier this month.

The force of jets destroyed a hilltop training camp near Balakot where Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) jihadists were preparing an imminent attack, the country's foreign minister said.






Pakistani soldiers and media personnel gather at the site where the Indian Air Force strike launched on a Jaish-e-Mohammad camp on Tuesday CREDIT: JAMEEL AHMED/ AFP
But Pakistan dismissed that claim as “fictitious” and “self-serving”, saying its own jets had intercepted the raiding force and seen it off. Pakistan's military said the Indian jets dropped their payload of bombs “in haste” as they fled and they caused no damage after landing in deserted forest.

Villagers near Balakot said they had been woken by jets and four blasts in an area close to a JeM madrassa. But they denied heavy casualties and said the damage was largely to trees. One person was wounded.


"We saw trees fallen down and one house damaged and four craters where the bombs had fallen," said Mohammad Ajmal, a 25-year-old who visited the site told Reuters.

Another neighbour, who declined to be named, said JeM ran a nearby Islamic school.

An Indian attack had been widely predicted as Narendra Modi faced domestic outrage over the bomb attack in Pulwama blamed on JeM.

Pakistan has long been accused of harbouring and supporting militant groups as tools of its foreign policy in India, Kashmir and Afghanistan. JeM is a primarily anti-India group that forged ties with al Qaeda and has been on a UN terrorist list since 2001. India says the JeM was also behind the 2001 attack on the Indian parliament and on an Indian air force base in 2016. Pakistan denies any involvement in the Pulwama attack and has challenged Delhi to deliver actionable intelligence on who carried out the attack.

Western diplomats now fear any counter retaliation by Pakistan could dangerously escalate the stand-off and trigger an international crisis.





Supporters of India's ruling Bhartiya Janata Party shout slogans as they celebrate reports of Indian aircrafts bombing Pakistan territory on Tuesday CREDIT: ALTAF QADRI/AP
One diplomat said both sides must try to carefully measure their action to satisfy domestic nationalist fervour, while not provoking all out war. However with an Indian general election only weeks away, Mr Modi had come under intense pressure to act.


As news channels on both sides of the border became increasingly bellicose, a Pakistani military spokesman even alluded to its nuclear arsenal, highlighting the escalation in hostile rhetoric.

The spokesman said a command and control authority meeting, which decides over the use of nuclear weapons, had been convened for Wednesday, adding: "You all know what that means."

The Indian strike 30 miles from the frontier was thought to be the first strike inside its neighbour's territory since their 1971 war. Indian military sources said 12 French Mirage 2000 fighters crossed the line of control dividing the adversaries in Kashmir on their raid into Pakistani territory at around 3.15am local time.

Accompanied by an airborne early warning and control aircraft and a mid-air re-fueller, the Mirages reportedly employed 1000kg precision guided munitions to hit their targets in a mission that lasted a few minutes.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...r-strikes-indian-territory-demonstrate-right/

*LIVE UPDATES: Pakistan Shoots Down Indian Warplanes Over Kashmir Amid Escalation*

The Indian-Pakistan strained relations have further deteriorated this week after India conducted unauthorised airstrikes from the airspace of neighbourly country to destroy terrorist infrastructure it claims Pakistan is reluctant to destroy.

Pakistan's army has announced that its Air Force had downed two Indian warplanes in the Pakistani airspace, adding that one Indian pilot had been captured.

New Delhi has yet to comment on the situation, while Pakistan's move follows Indian airstrikes on the camp of the Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorist group located across the so-called Line of Control (LoC) separating the Indian-and Pakistani-controlled parts of Jammu and Kashmir.

*READ MORE: Pakistan Shoots Down Two Indian Aircraft Inside its Airspace, 1 Pilot Captured — Military*

India explained the unauthorised airstrikes from Pakistan's airspace by Islamabad's alleged "inability to act in order to destroy terrorist infrastructure," while the Pakistani Foreign Ministry has slammed the air strike as a violation of its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

India's aerial operation came in the wake of the February 14 terror attack when a car filled with explosives was detonated on the Jammu-Srinagar highway, killing 45 Indian officers. After the attack, India blamed Pakistan for harboring and protecting terrorists, accusing the country of having a "direct hand" in the incident. As a punitive measure, India has withdrawn Pakistan's most-favored nation status and raised custom duties on goods imported from Pakistan to 200 percent.

New messages

10:29
*Indian Airline Indigo Says Flights Suspected Over Airspace Closure*
The flights to and from Srinagar, Jammu, Chandigarh, Amritsar and Dehradun have been temprorarily suspended.


10:00
*India Shoots Down Pakistan’s F-16 Fighter Jet, Indian News Agency Claims on Twitter*


09:53
*Air Services Suspended in Some Parts of India's Jammu, Kashmir - Airport Representative*
"Air services temporarily stopped in our airport as well in several others in the state," a representative of the Srinagar airport told Sputnik Wednesday.


09:53
*Pakistan's Airstrike on Indian Warplanes Aimed at Showing 'Readiness to Defend Itself' - Foreign Ministry*




*Pakistan Shoots Down Two Indian Aircraft Inside its Airspace - Military*
08:51 27.02.2019
On Tuesday, India bombed a terrorist camp in the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir, violating the neighbouring country's airspace. Already-tense bilateral relations have been escalating between the two Asian nuclear powers after mid-February's suicide attack, which left over 40 Indian paramilitary troops dead.
READ MORE

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902271072784063-kashmir-india-pakistan-warpanes-shot-down/


----------



## timmy_area51

maximuswarrior said:


> When are you going to fire the ballistic missile at Pakistan?



dude pakistan is not Syria , not yet . we can't just fire missiles at pakistan . Lol

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## Falcon26

First confirmed air to air kill by one nuclear power against another?

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## Longhorn

maximuswarrior said:


> Modi wanted to win elections LOL


I wonder what Gen Bakshi is feeling like this morning. Pmsl.

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## The Sandman

*Pakistani members wait for DG ISPR's conference our media is using a lot of old pics/videos let's just wait for official statement and evidence.*

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## indian my friend

2 planes have definitely crashed of iaf i can confirm but indian media is reporting glitch in engine for the crash
F16 story is still difficult to prove.
Lets wait , but i want to see su30mki in action.

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## bananarepublic

lets wait for better evidence .... and news


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

Pak media destroying our narrative by showing fake images.

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## maximuswarrior

timmy_area51 said:


> dude pakistan is not Syria , not yet . we can't just fire missiles at pakistan . Lol



Of course you can. Haven’t you read the Tweets yesterday? Some random Indian claimed Iran was on Indian side.


----------



## litman

Bratva said:


> Source ????


as per ary 3 pilots have been captured


----------



## bananarepublic

indian my friend said:


> 2 planes have definitely crashed of iaf i can confirm but indian media is reporting glitch in engine for the crash
> F16 story is still difficult to prove.
> Lets wait , but i want to see su30mki in action.



more confused as to why IAF deployed MIG-21 and not Su-30mki


----------



## Arsalan 345

we hit two migs.one mi-17 also down.we hit 3 targets.
one mig crashed on our side,pilot captured,another crashed in jodhpur,one mi-`17 also shot down. total 3 iaf planes.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/i...s-in-jodhpur-pilot-ejects-safely-2915351.html


----------



## timmy_area51

maximuswarrior said:


> When are you going to fire the ballistic missile at Pakistan?



this is the damage from an iranian Ballistic missile dude


----------



## NA71

Armani said:


> What 2 planes...one was Mi-17 crash you tried to pass off as MIG shot down




Wait we are going to show your arrested pilots on media ....


----------



## Oruc

information ministry AJK says they have caught two other pilots.

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## Jf Thunder

oopsie 
well done PAF 

and their yesterday's balloon deflates 

sorry I doubted you PAF/PA/PN


----------



## salman-1

Video already shown of pilot lying on ground. Probably his back bone broken. On Gnn news


----------



## Jackdaws

j20611 said:


> Of course all iaf pilots are accounted for including the one eating a roast beef sandwich in a Pakistani jail and the other burnt to a crisp


Use that Chinese credit card wisely.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## خره مينه لګته وي

Latest News -- Remaining 2 indian pilots also arrested


----------



## Clutch

*PAF shoots down two Indian aircraft inside Pakistani airspace; one pilot arrested*

Dawn.comUpdated February 27, 2019
Facebook Count4419
Twitter Share
0








"PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace," said ISPR. — DawnNewsTV

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) on Wednesday, in retaliation to India's Line of Control (LoC) violation a day earlier, undertook strikes across the LoC from Pakistani airspace.

"Sole purpose of this action was to demonstrate our right, will and capability for self defence. We do not wish to escalate but are fully prepared if forced into that paradigm," said the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA).




Dr Mohammad Faisal

✔@ForeignOfficePk
https://twitter.com/ForeignOfficePk/status/1100641652966916096

#Pakistanstrikesback #PAF undertook strikes across LoC from Pakistani airspace. Sole purpose of this action was to demonstrate our right, will and capability for self defence. We do not wish to escalate but are fully prepared if forced into that paradigm#PakistanZindabad


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Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor, the director general (DG) of Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), confirmed the action, adding that "in response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF [Indian Air Force] crossed LoC."

"PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K [Azad Jammu and Kashmir] while other fell inside IoK [Indian occupied Kashmir]. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area."




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100641491679150080

In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.


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"Pakistan has taken strikes at non military target, avoiding human loss and collateral damage," said a statement by the Foreign Office. "For the last few years, India has been trying to establish what they call 'a new normal', a thinly veiled term for doing acts of aggression at whatever pretext they wish on a given day.

"If India is striking at so-called terrorist backers without a shred of evidence, we also retain reciprocal rights to retaliate against elements that enjoy Indian patronage while carrying out acts of terror in Pakistan. We do not wish to go to that route and wish that India gives peace a chance and to resolve issues like a mature democratic nation," the statement added.

A day earlier, the army spokesperson saidthat the prime minister had asked everyone to get ready for every eventuality. "We are all ready. Now it is time for India to wait for our response," he asserted.

"The response will come at a point and time of our choosing where our civil military leadership decides, and as a matter of fact, has decided," he had said, reiterating the statement issued after the National Security Committee (NSC) meeting convened by Prime Minister Imran Khan.

*'New Pakistan'*
"We are peaceful; we didn't escalate, India did," said Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi while speaking to _ARY_. "We exposed their escalations and their false claims, we offered international observers to come and examine the claims of India.

"India, listen: this is a new Pakistan, [there is] new enthusiasm, new valour," he cautioned the neighbouring country.

"The nation is united, each and every child is standing by the Army and Kashmiris. Even today, our preference is peace. India should review its designs. A new Pakistan has been established," Qureshi said.

"The next course of action will be devised after the NCA [National Command Authority] session in which military and political leadership are participating," he added.

Prime Minister Khan has summoned a special meeting of the NCA today. The NCA is the apex civilian-led command headed by the prime minister to oversee the policy formulation, exercises, deployment, research and development, and operational command and control of the country’s nuclear arsenals.

_This is a developing story that is being updated as the situation evolves. Initial reports in the media can sometimes be inaccurate._

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## DOTO for life

A per ARY News three pilots have arrested so far... #LabaikGawaehind #Originalsurgicalstrike

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## Armani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100659306284883968
Now trying to pass off survivor from Aero India Surya Kiran aerobatic team crash as IAF captured pilot  These guys have lost it...

Here's the real video from Aero India area in Bangalore -


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

You'll just get urself banned.


Hassan Guy said:


> if its real i'll penetrate a pile of snow raw and post it to pdf


----------



## HRK

All three Indian pilots are now captured

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## Muhammad Omar

Indian News and Khaleej Times is reporting India shot down F-16 of PAF 

Anything confirmed??


----------



## Longhorn

timmy_area51 said:


> this is the damage from an iranian Ballistic missile dude


Isn't it supposed to explode after it comes through the roof?

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## khansaheeb

indian my friend said:


> There is a definite possibility that 2 mig 21 or 1 mi17 chopper is down as i have seen in indian media .
> F16 story can also be true because parachute landing was reported.
> Where is our main beast su30mki why are we saving it for airshows?



hahaha, I like the Indian comment: "Where is our main beast su30mki why are we saving it for airshows?"

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## Preacher

Bola tha bhrwo we will surprise you - DGISPR


----------



## timmy_area51

maximuswarrior said:


> Of course you can. Haven’t you read the Tweets yesterday? Some random Indian claimed Iran was on Indian side.



It indeed is . but india and pakistan are not armenia and azerbaijan , both are Nuclear powers . if iran does something that stupid , israel will make short circuit of iran .


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

So far we DONT have visuals of downed Indian jet in Azaad Kashmir.
That's worrying.

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## darksider

kashmiris are confirming it was plane not helli






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100651551616577537


----------



## Clutch

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?



Victory or death... is to us Pakistanis Victory & Shadaahad!

Pakistan Zindabad!

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## Shot-Caller

3 Indian pilots arrested alive by Pakistan. Now Indians will see how strikes are done with proof.


----------



## ZedZeeshan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100659306284883968


----------



## Sugarcane

HRK said:


> All three Indian pilots are now captured
> View attachment 542313



What third pilot was doing in jet?

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## marcos98

I would assume that ISPR will immediately reveal atleast the names & ranks of the captured IAF personnel(If true).


----------



## timmy_area51

Longhorn said:


> Isn't it supposed to explode after it comes through the roof?



it's supposed to , haha
But the war in yemen is brother on brother so no


----------



## Oruc

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100659131311185920بھمبر ڈسٹرکٹ آزاد کشمیر میں دو بھارتی پائلٹس گرفتار بھمبر کے سماہنی سیکٹر کے گاوں پونا کے قریب پاکستان ائر فورس کی طرف سے گرائے بھارتی جنگی جہاز کا ملبہ گرا ہوا ہے گرفتار بھارتی پائلٹس پاک فوج کی تحویل میں


----------



## Tameem

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662017881448448

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## Dark-Destroyer

Alpha BeeTee said:


> So far we DONT have visuals of downed Indian jet in Azaad Kashmir.
> That's worrying.



You believed Indians without visuals have some faith in your own armed forces


----------



## The Sandman

*LIVE CONFERENCE OF DG ISPR*


----------



## indian my friend

khansaheeb said:


> hahaha, I like the Indian comment: "Where is our main beast su30mki why are we saving it for airshows?"[/QUOTE
> Or su30mki is a overkill for paf.


----------



## Path-Finder

Jf Thunder said:


> oopsie
> well done PAF
> 
> and their yesterday's balloon deflates
> 
> sorry I doubted you PAF/PA/PN



that reminds me where is that @Imran Khan ?



ZedZeeshan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100659306284883968



that from a air show in india few days ago and not the one from Pakistan!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100648712412499968

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## PDF

ISPR live


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

HRK said:


> All three Indian pilots are now captured
> View attachment 542313


Believe it when you see it.


----------



## IFB

Sugarcane said:


> What third pilot was doing in jet?


 lol


----------



## Bindas

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654934826061824
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654146657624064




MI17 helicopter fell in Budgam very far from loc. how did you kill?

I bet there were more Indian jets closer than this bird.


----------



## CHACHA"G"

KRAIT said:


> No Source. Just imagination. We are also waiting for the complete story. Kindly wait with us.


You lost two jets,,,,,, The pics of heli is also there , maybe heli that went for search and rescue went down too , For F-16 no we did not lost any because of Indian fire.... 
PAF hit 6 targets in India ……. Now ask you Defence forces where and what happen there …..

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## Peaceful Civilian

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?


We have right to defend . We will use every option. Still I don't think we are going towards war. IT is limited conflict. They violated our airspace and we shoot down their jets.

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## Clutch

ZedZeeshan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100659306284883968



Kill the SOB .. burn him!

Mother I'm burning... Li want them all dead!!! 

Kill them all ..jfkfj


----------



## Signalian

PAF engaged 6 targets inside IOK.

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## ZedZeeshan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100661022602510336

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## Windjammer



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## agamdilawari

2 year old crash reported for today by Pak. How desperate 

*Accident MiG-27MU TU657, 12 Jun 2016 - Aviation Safety Network*
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=188071
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=188071

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## blackuday

BREAKING: Pakistani JF17 immediate retaliate back to Indian Air Force volition at Line of Control. Pakistan Retaliate Karne Ka Soche Ga Nahi, Pakistan Retaliate Karega!! #PMIK

BREAKING: Pakistani JF17 immediate retaliate back to Indian Air Force volition at Line of Control.

Pakistan Retaliate Karne Ka Soche Ga Nahi, Pakistan Retaliate Karega!! #PMIK

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100190433265754112

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## Alpha BeeTee

Dark-Destroyer said:


> You believed Indians without visuals have some faith in your own armed forces


Never believed them


----------



## Musafir117

#SURPRISE
NO
it’s just a trailer 
Abhi tou Surprise ka S start hua hai. 
Pakistan Zindabad. 
On serious note 7 lakh hain in limited zone kuch “ hundreds “ tou banta hai


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100663025240100864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100663125739749376

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## Shot-Caller

Armani said:


> Is he going to be like another civilian like Kulbushan Jadhav captured and peddled as a spy for domestic consumption


So your IAF drops Indian civilians in Pakistan to be captured by us and runs away?

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## PDF

Armani said:


> Video is of Mi-17 crash, picture is of Hawk jet trainer crash from 2015.
> 
> MIGs







MI 17 crashed, Isolated incident

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## Tameem

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662017881448448


----------



## blackuday

*Pakistan confirms strikes in Kashmir, claims to have downed 2 IAF jets*
Web Desk February 27, 2019 12:09 IST



(File) A Pakistani JF-17 fighter
The Pakistan government on Wednesday claimed it had shot down two Indian Air Force fighters and had carried out strikes across the Line of Control a day after India carried out an attack.




Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor

✔@OfficialDGISPR
https://twitter.com/OfficialDGISPR/status/1100641491679150080

In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.


68.5K
1:19 PM - Feb 27, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

53.7K people are talking about this



The Pakistan Armed Forces spokesperson said the Pakistan Air Force shot down two Indian aircraft inside Pakistan airspace. The official Twitter handle of the Pakistan Armed Forces said the Pakistan Air Force shot down the jets after they entered its airspace, noting one crashed inside Jammu and Kashmir and the other inside Azad Kashmir. Earlier, an Indian Air Force aircraft crashed in Budgam, killing two pilots. It was initially thought to be an MiG-21 fighter, though other reports claim it was MI-17 helicopter.








ANI

✔@ANI
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1100641086790426624

J&K: Pictures of craters formed from Pakistani bombs dropped near Indian Army post in Rajouri sector. Pic courtesy: Army sources)


620
1:17 PM - Feb 27, 2019

455 people are talking about this

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ANI obtained footage of damage caused near an Army post near Rajouri due to the Pakistani bombing.

“In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area,” the Pakistan Armed Forces handle confirmed. ANI has reported a Pakistani F-16 was shot down after the bombing mission, though this has not been confirmed by either side.

Earlier, at least three Pakistan Air Force fighters violated the Line of Control and are believed to have dropped bombs. The Pakistan Foreign Ministry released a statement acknowledging a bombing mission, though Indian sources claimed the bombs were jettisoned after being intercepted.
https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2019/02/27/pakistan-strike-kashmir-iaf-jets.html


----------



## Signalian

It was decided by PAF not to engage military target and neither cause human loss of life or collateral damage

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## Dark-Destroyer

Alpha BeeTee said:


> Never believed them



Then just have a little patience you will know before the days over


----------



## Path-Finder

Bindas said:


> MI17 helicopter fell in Budgam very far from loc. how did you kill?
> 
> I bet there were more Indian jets closer than this bird.



it was technical fault, Pakistan cannot shootdown any indian jet let alone helicopters.

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## Cookie Monster

KRAIT said:


> Unconfirmed till now.





KRAIT said:


> 3 PAF aircrafts did come but got intercepted. No bombs dropped.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641086790426624


----------



## Signalian

The strikes were at open spaces.


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100663453436596225


----------



## timmy_area51

*Iran urges India, Pakistan to exercise restraint (like America would )*

*https://dunyanews.tv/en/World/480219-Iran-urges-India-Pakistan-to-exercise-restraint*


----------



## TheDarkKnight

Jugger said:


> Showing old pics and old videos is not a good proof for Pakistan.
> 
> Nothing is true until confirmed.


Ok then relax , Pak is just faking this for domestic consumption after the second successful surgical strikes by Bhartia Sena

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## خره مينه لګته وي

arbit said:


> 1 F-16 shot down in P-O-K.


Fake News


----------



## khansaheeb

Sugarcane said:


> What third pilot was doing in jet?


Playing extra?


----------



## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662816372125696

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## Signalian

These targets were supply depots with safety distance


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100663836305170432

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## POPEYE-Sailor

Guys can any one tell me which Aircraft PAF shoot down ?????????


----------



## Signalian

AFter that IAF sent two planes inside Azad Kashmir. PAF engaged and shot down both aircraft


----------



## Muhammad Omar

Arrested Indian pilot

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## TheDarkKnight

Robinhood Pandey said:


> So far . . all i have seen is old crashes and some random pics from pakistani media as "exclusives"


Yes Pak media is just trying to make money - real footage will be with Army which I doubt will see the daylight anytime soon.


----------



## darksider

DG ispr confirming shot down of two india AF and capturing two pilots in live presser.

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## Signalian

Two IAF pilots have been arrested


----------



## indian my friend

How can mig 21 carry 2 pilots .
This is very confusing.
Why not show the aircraft.


----------



## bananarepublic

holy shit ISPR is gonna Share the strike video


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664044636246017

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## jupiter2007

Muhammad Omar said:


> Indian News and Khaleej Times is reporting India shot down F-16 of PAF
> 
> Anything confirmed??



Indian news are claiming that they have arrested the F-16 pilot and handed over to Indian police.


----------



## timmy_area51

India and pakistan have to go to war so that iran and israel would not .


----------



## Path-Finder

blackuday said:


> BREAKING: Pakistani JF17 immediate retaliate back to Indian Air Force volition at Line of Control. Pakistan Retaliate Karne Ka Soche Ga Nahi, Pakistan Retaliate Karega!! #PMIK
> 
> BREAKING: Pakistani JF17 immediate retaliate back to Indian Air Force volition at Line of Control.
> 
> Pakistan Retaliate Karne Ka Soche Ga Nahi, Pakistan Retaliate Karega!! #PMIK
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100190433265754112



that is 3 year old footage and not relevant to the current scenario, this same footage was played on indian mainstream and it was rebutted quickly.

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## Riea

What aircrafts were shot down mig what?
And what fighter was used to attack those migs ? Thsnks.


----------



## Oracle

but JF17 is steel made fighter only for showcase

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## Signalian

One pilot is wounded and in CMH.

Documents have been captured from pilots

PAF DIDNOT use F-16's.


----------



## CHACHA"G"

*ISPR Live: 
*


*

PAF hit 6 targets

none is military

we made sure no lose of life (just like you indian, now stop crying)

We locked the target but after that we hit right next to it , because we are peace loving country , so we hit right next to target just to show next time we will hit the target

After we hit Inida , IAF crossed over Pak airspace , We shoot them down , 2 pilots captured , 1 injured in hospital we will take got care of him , one in custody .

No F-16 ,,,,,,,,,, Pak did not use F-16 in whole action (most probably Mirages and JF-17,, maybe first hit for JF-17.. MahaAllah)

We want peace and we invite india for dialogue,,,, easy to start war but impossible to end..
*

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## POPEYE-Sailor

arbit said:


> one F-16 shot down in P-o-k


Lol can u give us third party reliable source ??? For ur 2 IAF aircraft here is link 
https://www.rt.com/rtmobile/news/latest/452520/html/


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## The Sandman

*NO F16 used in this whole excersice: DG ISPR*

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## Muhammad Omar

DG ISPR : 
Pakistan Didn't use any F-16 today in the retaliation and no F-16 was shot down by India


----------



## arbit

Iron Stars said:


> Fake News



The news is a few hours old, it is understandable PAF will want to keep it under wraps. Videos will be shared later. In the meantime, war like situation in here. Delhi airport operations are also being suspended and Pakistani airspace is in the process of being blocked. 
The last line is yet to be fully confirmed though.


----------



## Jf Thunder

F-16s were not even used in this operation 
how could F-16 be shot down 

DG ISPR live now

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664260395442176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664529535598595

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## Mentee

The Sandman said:


> @Starlord @Mentee @Maxpane @Zibago @Moonlight



Alhamdulilahe RabilAlamin ! 

Zulfiqar Mode on! 
Well done boys !

@Great Janjua @Maxpane ku bhai jvaano is ko kehta hain bhooray dy ghr tk Jaana

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## Cookie Monster

Armani said:


> Is he going to be like another civilian like Kulbushan Jadhav captured and peddled as a spy for domestic consumption


Of course that "civilian" Jadhav only had a fake Iranian passport with a fake identity as a harmless prank. I mean which law abiding citizen doesn't have that...right?

As for u thinking IAF pilots captured by Pakistanis shown on media must be some civilians...well in that case idk how u can be convinced. If actual proof is fake while mere claims by ur media is the truth in absence of proof...then u can carry on with ur tinfoil hat stuff.

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## iPhone

DG ISPR on live. Saying no F-16 was used in taking down Indian aircraft. No f-16s shot down. At least not a Pakistani f-16.


----------



## ziaulislam

Wow 
pakistan used jf17 no f16s used per ISPR
will show pilots soon on media
One being treated at CMH
Third jet crash in india has nothing to do with us ..no comments on mi 17

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## Hareeb

Live:


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664208784543745


----------



## The Sandman

Boy this is gonna be REALLLY embarrassing for our neigbors pics and videos are out of captured PILOTS!!

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## Great Janjua

Mentee said:


> Alhamdulilahe RabilAlamin !
> 
> Zulfiqar Mode on!
> Well done boys !
> 
> @Great Janjua @Maxpane ku bhai jvaano is ko kehta hain bhooray dy ghr tk Jaana


Takbir

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## bananarepublic

IAF pilots captured documents

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## ziaulislam

iPhone said:


> DG ISPR on live. Saying no F-16 was used in taking down Indian aircraft. No f-16s shot down. At least not a Pakistani f-16.


So which other fighter engaged them f7s or jf17


----------



## Great Janjua

Wa islmah has prevailed

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## CHACHA"G"

Viny said:


> View attachment 542298
> 
> 
> can anyone confirm this...


free flying stopped ,,,,, war time or special air rout been issued ……. civilian aircrafts told not to fallow other routes..

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## The Sandman

ziaulislam said:


> So which other fighter engaged them f7s or jf17


Maybe it's JF this time...


----------



## Shot-Caller

jupiter2007 said:


> Indian news are claiming that they have arrested the F-16 pilot and handed over to Indian police.


All these days India has only made claims.No proofs. We are showing your pilot live on national tv. DG ispr is saying india claims f-16 shot down but there were no f-16s used. So all indian claims are garbage if they caught someone they need to show like we are showing. From surgical strike claims to this day india has failed to provide a single proof.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100663007116312576


----------



## Clutch

Kill him... Kill the Hindutva terrorist! 

They have declared war on us... REVENGE!!! 

I .WANT REVENGE!!!

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## skylance

good job!


----------



## Tameem

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120

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## Salza

Devastating reply by PAF and armed forces.


----------



## bananarepublic

DG ISPR : no one wins War and the whole humanity losses.

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## maverick1977

New intel, Su30, mig 21 ...

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## TheDarkKnight

Telescopic Sight said:


> On God , now their media is show I g the S urya Kiran crash pilots !?!?


Hi sorry I am really sorry for the trouble - why dont you stick to US media then and let the Pakistanis consume their own media - its all good friend.


----------



## Tameem

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664454335860736

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## ice_man

Allahmdulliah Allah ka karam. 

we have shown our capability and capacity.

Its time to de escalate.

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## indian my friend

3 piolts but 2 mig21 down
1mig21 has 1 pilot.
Wtf is going on
And somebody said 1 mig was down in india and mi17 what the hell is going on.
Why cant media be neutral calm and truthfull


----------



## Signalian

Today's action by PAF was in self defence.

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## Salza

Clearly PAF entered IAF air space but for a cover up (peace) we are saying we shot down 2 IAF planes inside our space.


----------



## Zarvan

indian my friend said:


> How can mig 21 carry 2 pilots .
> This is very confusing.
> Why not show the aircraft.


That would be shown also. Two Pilots captured alive according to ISPR


----------



## WaLeEdK2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664454335860736

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## maverick1977

maverick1977 said:


> New intel, Su30, mig 21 ...




Most likely shot by SD10 or PL5?

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## arbit

ahmedlatif said:


> Lol can u give us third party reliable source ??? For ur 2 IAF aircraft here is link
> https://www.rt.com/rtmobile/news/latest/452520/html/



This article has collated its news from Pakistani news sources. It doesn't have its own reporters on ground. 
Out of the two aircrafts one was a TU which crashed a couple of years ago in jodhpur. Video evidence is already there. 
The second aircraft crashed in Budgam. That might have been shot down I give you that but our side hasn't confirmed yet and the official line is that it crashed due to technical reasons. 

F-16 shot down is confirmed.


----------



## Handshake

Where are those peoples who were pointing Pakistan and barking against its own country?
Middle finger for them.
India thand parr gaye?
COME MOTHER FU*KERS I SWEAR I CANT WAIT TO FU*L YOU ALL.

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## Path-Finder

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120



This is a fake doctored video by lal topi, Pakistan cannot capture or shootdown indians.

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## unbiasedopinion

Fake news as confirmed by many news portals.


----------



## Salza

*Major major embarrassment for Indians.*

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## Chhatrapati

Tameem said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662017881448448


IAF pilots don't sport long mustaches unless he's a Sikh but he has no turban either.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## indian my friend

ice_man said:


> Allahmdulliah Allah ka karam.
> 
> we have shown our capability and capacity.
> 
> Its time to de escalate.


Its time to escalate wipe out half of indian population it would be a big favour for us.
Lol


----------



## ice_man

arbit said:


> This article has collated its news from Pakistani news sources. It doesn't have its own reporters on ground.
> Out of the two aircrafts one was a TU which crashed a couple of years ago in jodhpur. Video evidence is already there.
> The second aircraft crashed in Budgam. That might have been shot down I give you that but our side hasn't confirmed yet and the official line is that it crashed due to technical reasons.
> 
> F-16 shot down is confirmed.



No Pakistani plane entered indian air space or got shot down. 

IAF 2 planes shot down pilots arrested


----------



## kingQamaR

All endless trash talk of our Jf17 still no appearance of there mighty su30 plane. Our Jf17 is flying high in the sky why you no come and face our bird ( shaheen). Two of your planes already downed so far. Are you enjoying this war you wanted Mr modi u war mongering Dalit.

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## Great Janjua

arbit said:


> This article has collated its news from Pakistani news sources. It doesn't have its own reporters on ground.
> Out of the two aircrafts one was a TU which crashed a couple of years ago in jodhpur. Video evidence is already there.
> The second aircraft crashed in Budgam. That might have been shot down I give you that but our side hasn't confirmed yet and the official line is that it crashed due to technical reasons.
> 
> F-16 shot down is confirmed.


F -16 didn't even take part

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## Dr. Abdul Basit

Huge blow to morale of bhindian pilots. They will be using urine catheters before crossing over again. Nice plot

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

DG ISPR
1 pilot from IAF injured: "we took him to CMH hospital and will look after him Inshallah." (DG's words)
1 pilot is full custody.
2 jest were downed.
1 heli crash: not related to PAF
No F16s were scrambled so no F16 was lost.
6 target we pick inside occupied territory and taken out including a depot.
7 a major target was locked ( administrative setup) in but did not engage as a lot more casualty would have happened.
My take: anyone who doest nt believe us can **** off. Make shit up, fool ur folks and get elected.



Oracle said:


> but JF17 is steel made fighter only for showcase


they say the same thing about Chinese radar ( as if we dont have radars from other countries) and our missiles.
Folks get in like to order JF17 . a battle proved modern jet.

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## agamdilawari




----------



## Mentee

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662816372125696


@Maxpane @The Sandman @Great Janjua here you go guys. Two captured, One freak is being searched for.

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## ice_man

indian my friend said:


> Its time to escalate wipe out half of indian population it would be a big favour for us.
> Lol



what we did is for indians to see. our job is done. so relax

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## Talwar e Pakistan




----------



## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> one F-16 shot down in P-o-k


Possible lets wait for indian confirmation


----------



## Bindas

ZedZeeshan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100659306284883968




This is fake. This Aero india show crash pilot.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

unbiasedopinion said:


> Fake news as confirmed by many news portals.



Indian fantasy world where Fake news is reality and reality is fake news.

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## Path-Finder



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## khansaheeb

Indians caught out lying as usual with their fake news. Modi's gamble backfired.
The Indian pilot's injuries are consistent with ejection seat.

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## Signalian

Guessing JF-17 and Mirages were used.

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## POPEYE-Sailor

arbit said:


> This article has collated its news from Pakistani news sources. It doesn't have its own reporters on ground.
> Out of the two aircrafts one was a TU which crashed a couple of years ago in jodhpur. Video evidence is already there.
> The second aircraft crashed in Budgam. That might have been shot down I give you that but our side hasn't confirmed yet and the official line is that it crashed due to technical reasons.
> 
> F-16 shot down is confirmed.


LOL only indian media is saying ...! I showed you RT, still RT or any other world media still not confirmed that IAF destroyed PAF F-16.. So how do u fell about Pakistani suprise ?


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120
Wing commander Abhinandan


----------



## ziaulislam

Oh sit wing commander interview service no. 27981 ****

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## Hayreddin

Iaf 2 jets shot down by paf . 
No f16 shot down 
3 iaf pilots arrested


----------



## bananarepublic

Original Target was military Posts,command and bunkers
but we did not target them


----------



## Salza

ISPR: This was just a demonstration by PAF downing 2 IAF planes. Our main targets will than be Indian administrative installations if India escalates the issue further.

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## Sugarcane

I hope sense will prevail in India and they will exclude war with Pakistan from their politics. Good job PAF


----------



## Mentee

Indians should start questioning their govt about the jet camera footage of those so called surgical strikes 
See we don't make big claims we back it with credible evidence.

Indian media is showing the downed clip of one thier own as a Pakistani 16.

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## darksider

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120

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## Shot-Caller

Chhatrapati said:


> IAF pilots don't sport long mustaches unless he's a Sikh but he has no turban either.


So disowning him for his moustache? . Smart move. He is telling his full name and service number in the video. He is a wing commander. You should accept your airforce has been shown its true place by us. Not much choice left for you.


----------



## mudas777

maximuswarrior said:


> When are you going to fire the ballistic missile at Pakistan?



Bro's we have got nothing against Iran and am sure Iran have the same sentiments. In anger things are said should not be taken literally. Am seen to be defending Iran all the time it doesn't means I got something to do with Iran. We are neighbours and have a history together and been friends in the past and helped each other at the difficult times. Iran have got hands full with their own issues i.e. sanctions etc and we got a long list of our own and lets not add another problem to those lists. Also we are falling for fake news planted in the media by Indians and we keep on bashing Iran for them, lets deal with the real enemy. Iran is not our enemy just misguided, lost and confused friend at times, am sure one day they realised friendship with us is win for both countries and right way to go. Lets focus on our real enemy so called super power and put them in their place and don't waste our energies where not required. Pakistan Zindabad. .

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## Cookie Monster

Falcon26 said:


> First confirmed air to air kill by one nuclear power against another?


I wouldn't consider media claims as confirmation. Claims by either military of shooting down the other's plane will hold some credibility...pictures would be best. I'm waiting on that before I consider these news confirmed.


----------



## Signalian

Shot-Caller said:


> So disowning him for his moustache? . Smart move. He is telling his full name and service number in the video. He is a wing commander. You should accept your airforce has been shown its true place by us. Not much choice left for you.


ISPR will show the captured documents soon

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## WaLeEdK2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664453207674880


----------



## PDF

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100666422173331456


----------



## litman

if F-16 is not involved as per dg ispr it means JFT is officially a killer.

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## gambit

Clutch said:


> Kill him... Kill the Hindutva terrorist!
> 
> They have declared war on us... REVENGE!!!
> 
> I .WANT REVENGE!!!


No, Pakistan will do no such things.

Pakistan will treat these pilots as legal prisoners of war (POW), even if no official declaration of war exists. These pilots will receive medical treatment and will be quartered according to their ranks. Their return to India maybe negotiated but in the meantime, Pakistan will do the honorable thing and respect these men for what they are -- fellow men-at-arms.

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## Albatross

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.
> 
> Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people


We shot your two jets and captured alive pilots what else you want loosers now prepare for more... Modi has you ppl screwed


----------



## Amigator

ThinkLogically said:


> Oh Man!!! This is a big pooper for Pakistan.
> 
> One of their jet has been shot down. We suffered no losses.


Come on Idiot now disowning your own pilot, shitface?


----------



## arbit

ice_man said:


> No Pakistani plane entered indian air space or got shot down.
> 
> IAF 2 planes shot down pilots arrested



I answered your observation in previous post itself. Don't make me repeat myself. 



Great Janjua said:


> F -16 didn't even take part



your airforce is up in air, and F-16 are your most pointy thing with which you stab other air forces.They won't be sitting on ground point nothing.


----------



## indian my friend

darksider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120


This uniform is tricky.
Where is india flag or any sign.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Bindas said:


> This is fake. This Aero india show crash pilot.



Yes it is, Dr Shahid shared the wrong one, but this is not.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100648712412499968


kingQamaR said:


> All endless trash talk of our Jf17 still no appearance of there mighty su30 plane. Our Jf17 is flying high in the sky why you no come and face our bird ( shaheen). Two of your planes already downed so far. Are you enjoying this war you wanted Mr modi u war mongering Dalit.



Brother, hope you are happy now as much as I am.

PAF redeemed many times over. 



Jf Thunder said:


> F-16s were not even used in this operation
> how could F-16 be shot down
> 
> DG ISPR live now



Lol, next we will hear Indians killed 700 jaish in brave kamikaze attack/ technical failure over Pakistani airspace.

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## Icewolf

Modi has disgraced his own country just so he could get some votes. Disgusting. Next time leave war with Pakistan out of your retarded politics Indians.

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## Shot-Caller

Chhatrapati said:


> LOL! He has no uniform either. Look like a Pindi boys photo op. Chal nikal.


Watch the video and listen to him tree killing fools. He has your typical bombay boy accent.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

If you read "history of Pakistan Airforce " written by a British author, he says that in 1965, PAF aborted 2 attempts( while over the target) to destroy Amritsar radar as India had purposely set it up in a densely populated area. It was finally struck the 3rd attempt after pinpoint accuracy. I wish our ghatia enemy would learn a few things from us.

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## CHACHA"G"

Chhatrapati said:


> IAF pilots don't sport long mustaches unless he's a Sikh but he has no turban either.


fuk in hell ,,,,, he is giving his service number and you still not accepting it...………. hell with you , and poor piolt …… we will take care of him and the other one...

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## Jf Thunder

our boy JF-17 has seen his first blood. 
they grow up so fast

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## Clutch

darksider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120




*Indian media is now showing this video of a captured Indian pilot as a captured Pakistani pilot!... Indian media has gone mad with #FakeNews !!!!!! *

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## sohail.ishaque

Armani said:


> Video is of Mi-17 crash, picture is of Hawk jet trainer crash from 2015.
> 
> MIGs


Yep true. We captured your pilots in 2015 and waited up till now to bring them to media.  Enjoy

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## Whirling_dervesh

Yes mofo you are with Pakistan army....


HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120
> Wing commander Abhinandan


----------



## iPhone

bananarepublic said:


> DG ISPR : no one wins War and the whole humanity losses.


Yeahhr was being too gay about the whole peace thing. These mfkers don’t want peace. They want war and that’s the only language they understand.


----------



## Great Janjua

arbit said:


> I answered your observation in previous post itself. Don't make me repeat myself.
> 
> 
> 
> your airforce is up in air, and F-16 are your most pointy thing with which you stab other air forces.They won't be sitting on ground point nothing.


Wing commander abinandan got caught with his pants down

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## khansaheeb

Seems like the F16s are being saved for the SU30s.

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## N.Siddiqui

IAF pilots captured


----------



## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> I answered your observation in previous post itself. Don't make me repeat myself.
> 
> 
> 
> your airforce is up in air, and F-16 are your most pointy thing with which you stab other air forces.They won't be sitting on ground point nothing.


Shit..you saw that pilot with service no and name released by DG ISPR.this got real

Pakistan mentioned it dropped bombs on ooen field to avoid escalation

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## Musafir117

bananarepublic said:


> Original Target was military Posts,command and bunkers
> but we did not target them


We did but we not gonna admit it 
Am waiting for a inside news to confirm it.

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## ProudPak

khansaheeb said:


> If PA show the photo of the downed Indian pilot then Modi is gone.


Its all over twitter. Video as well. He is alive but badly hurt

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## Cookie Monster

ThinkLogically said:


> Oh Man!!! This is a big pooper for Pakistan.
> 
> One of their jet has been shot down. We suffered no losses.


Lol no F16 was shot down...do provide pictures if u want to prove ur claim. As for IAF suffering losses...it's all over the media...even ur captured pilots are being paraded around.

While u have decided to bury ur head in the sand to avoid facing reality...this dude below is disowning IAF pilots based on his mustache. I'm just loving this amazing logic of u guys 


Chhatrapati said:


> IAF pilots don't sport long mustaches unless he's a Sikh but he has no turban either.


----------



## Windjammer

indian my friend said:


> How can mig 21 carry 2 pilots .
> This is very confusing.
> Why not show the aircraft.


Why not, they have dual seat MiG-21s besides it seems thye MiG-21 crashed in IOK where they recovered two bodies.

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## KRAIT

US told Pak can't use American weapons anymore.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Arsalan

One Su-30, on Mig-21 shot down by PAF formation involving JF-17 and Mirage.

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## dexter

These losers still couldn't believe their aircraft got shotdown and pilots captured.
Wakeup Bharti fanboys...
Pakistan Zindabad

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## Sine Nomine

@Areesh 
Can't say but kudos PAF.

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## TsAr

Bindas said:


> You have to show downed indian jet in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. And Captured Pilot. And 2 Indian pilots are running. 3 pilots one plane. ?
> Lets wait.


Captured pilot shown, hum Aram ja


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

arbit said:


> I answered your observation in previous post itself. Don't make me repeat myself.
> 
> We do have other planes too not just f16 you know
> 
> 
> your airforce is up in air, and F-16 are your most pointy thing with which you stab other air forces.They won't be sitting on ground point nothing.


----------



## iPhone

Your Abhinandan is in our custody ‍♂️

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## Signalian

Now Pakistan has IAF pilots in custody apart from the IN officer Yadav aka Spy in custody.

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## Salza

Wing Commander Rabhay Nandan is his name as per the video  hopefully i have typed his name correctly

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## sohail.ishaque

Bindas said:


> You have to show downed indian jet in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. And Captured Pilot. And 2 Indian pilots are running. 3 pilots one plane. ?
> Lets wait.


Your wait is over. They are all over the media. Your pilots. i think we should remove left moustache of one of your pilots


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

27981 is the service number of the wounded pilot, a wing commander.
a big FU to those who thought IAF was invincible. Just saw the footage of questions being asked.

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## Areesh

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> @Areesh
> Can't say but kudos PAF.



Pakistan Zindabad

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## Path-Finder




----------



## WaLeEdK2

KRAIT said:


> US told Pak can't use American weapons anymore.



And who told you that? First your narrative was an f-16 did get shot down lmao. Don’t flip flop

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## Clutch

gambit said:


> No, Pakistan will do no such things.
> 
> Pakistan will treat these pilots as legal prisoners of war (POW), even if no official declaration of war exists. These pilots will receive medical treatment and will be quartered according to their ranks. Their return to India maybe negotiated but in the meantime, Pakistan will do the honorable thing and respect these men for what they are -- fellow men-at-arms.



Its what I want... I am Pathan my blood boils easy... I know Pakistan is not a nation of bloodthirsty Hindutvas .... We will treat them with respect and according to the Geneva Convention...

But it's my Pathan blood speaking.

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## Great Janjua

KRAIT said:


> US told Pak can't use American weapons anymore.


We just used one on abinandan


----------



## Alpha BeeTee

ziaulislam said:


> Shit..you saw that pilot with service no and name released by DG ISPR.this got real
> 
> Pakistan mentioned it dropped bombs on ooen field to avoid escalation


Can the Indians produce another pilot with same service number to falsify our claim?


----------



## Zarvan

unbiasedopinion said:


> Fake news as confirmed by many news portals.


So again like Kargil you are going to refuse to accept your pilots

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## bananarepublic

iPhone said:


> Yeahhr was being too gay about the whole peace thing. These mfkers don’t want peace. They want war and that’s the only language they understand.



unlike you who dosent live in Pakistan war is gonna be hell for the people on both side .


----------



## Rafael

KRAIT said:


> US told Pak can't use American weapons anymore.



Yeah keep beliving that.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Path-Finder said:


>


Take that ahole denial mode neighbors!


----------



## ZedZeeshan



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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667436800430080


----------



## Telescopic Sight

indian my friend said:


> This uniform is tricky.
> Where is india flag or any sign.


Come now, that's an Indian pilot clearly. Question is, what was going on? How did they get captured? What were they flying ?



Salza said:


> Wing Commander Rabhay Nandan is his name as per the video  hopefully i have typed his name correctly


Seems like Abhi Nandan.

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## Zarvan

KRAIT said:


> No Su 30 shot down. No Mig-21 shot down. Only Mi-17 helicopter crashed.


We have your pilots alive dude. You first denied even Kalbhushan remember

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## Dark-Destroyer

arbit said:


> The Pakistani jet spewing smoke in air and pilot opening parachute is on air on Indian news channel.


.and what about your missing pilot lol wheres he gone


----------



## ice_man

arbit said:


> I answered your observation in previous post itself. Don't make me repeat myself.
> 
> 
> 
> your airforce is up in air, and F-16 are your most pointy thing with which you stab other air forces.They won't be sitting on ground point nothing.



we gave you proof of destroyed planes also wing commander ABHI NANDAN caught. 

can you please provide proof of F16 pilot or plane 

if not shut up


----------



## bananarepublic

arbit said:


> The Pakistani jet spewing smoke in air and pilot opening parachute is on air on Indian news channel.


post the link


----------



## khansaheeb

Arsalan said:


> One Su-30, on Mig-21 shot down by PAF formation involving JF-17 and Mirage.


Can't believe Indians would pitch Mig21 against JF17. Sending in SU30s is a gamble too and it is clear now JF17s are far superior aircraft to the SU30s.

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## The Sandman

INDIAN media in full on denial mode not even reporting that their pilot got captured.

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## indian my friend

Telescopic Sight said:


> Come now, that's an Indian pilot clearly. Question is, what was going on? How did they get captured? What were they flying ?
> 
> 
> Seems like Abhi Nandan.


Ok


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK



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## Great Janjua

Chhatrapati said:


> IAF pilots don't sport long mustaches unless he's a Sikh but he has no turban either.


Is he a ghost hahahahha


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667769228615680


----------



## POPEYE-Sailor

KRAIT said:


> No Su 30 shot down. No Mig-21 shot down. Only Mi-17 helicopter crashed.


lol have a look this link .. even russain media also qouting 
https://www.rt.com/news/452520-india-pakistan-aircraft-shot-down/


----------



## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100665473518223360

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## Arsalan

Majority of pictures and images being shared via SM and then ending up here are not related to the recent shooting of IAF planes. Guys give it a few minutes, you will have the real footage and details.

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## ProudPak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100665473518223360

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## Max

Hope.lowly eastern subhumans got the.message, if they want more we will give them more.

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## maverick1977

Can’t wait for videos or plane shot down


----------



## Signalian

Wing commander rank of Air Force is equal to Lt. Col rank of Army.

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## IceCold

KRAIT said:


> US told Pak can't use American weapons anymore.


Hahahahaha. Ok wanna try out that theory?

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667769228615680

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667769228615680

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

marcos98 said:


> I would assume that ISPR will immediately reveal atleast the names & ranks of the captured IAF personnel(If true).



Video and pictures available. That info is coming in due time as well.

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## Icewolf

Please post link of F-16 being downed indians. Indians got HUMILIATED by PAF today. Jets shot down, pilots parades around and videoed omg... modi must be having a panic attack. He thought he could get some free easy votes by false flagging and attacking Pakistan . Lol

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100668232128548864

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## Dark-Destroyer

Will the Indians acknowledge that is their soilder or not ....


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

ProudPak said:


> Its all over twitter. Video as well. He is alive but badly hurt


he is one of the 2 pilots 27981 service number Abhi Nandn. he says his head got hurt, oui amma!


----------



## mjnaushad

IceCold said:


> Hahahahaha. Ok wanna try out that theory?


Seems plausible.


----------



## iPhone

This was still an only defensive exercise. I’m not satisfied. I want PAF to enter their air space, drop bombs , come back then do it again. Only then will the bharits get the message. I’m telling you they don’t give two shits about peace. Theyre savages, they’ll only understand they language of gun fire.

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## undercover JIX

Muhammad Omar said:


> Indian News and Khaleej Times is reporting India shot down F-16 of PAF
> 
> Anything confirmed??


DGISPR saif no F16 were used in any of these ops, so there no question of shooting down F16.

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## Arsalan 345

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100665473518223360



embarrassment for india.they are denying that their fighter jet was shot down by paf.humiliation for modi.


----------



## ice_man

NO F16 USED. 

POOR INDIA SHOULD HAVE SAID ANOTHER PLANE TO AT LEAST MAKE IT LOOK REAL.


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100668386927878144


----------



## ProudPak

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> he is one of the 2 pilots 27981 service number Abhi Nandn. he says his head got hurt, oui amma!


Post #78 for you bro

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## valkyr_96

gambit said:


> No, Pakistan will do no such things.
> 
> Pakistan will treat these pilots as legal prisoners of war (POW), even if no official declaration of war exists. These pilots will receive medical treatment and will be quartered according to their ranks. Their return to India maybe negotiated but in the meantime, Pakistan will do the honorable thing and respect these men for what they are -- fellow men-at-arms.


 but according to India Pakistan has not captured any Indian pilot and all men are accounted for?


----------



## IceCold

mjnaushad said:


> Seems plausible.


For God sake yar, dont fall for Indian nonsense. F-16s pecha thori lena hain.

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## gambit

Clutch said:


> Its what I want... I am Pathan my blood boils easy... I know Pakistan is not a nation of bloodthirsty Hindutvas .... We will treat them with respect and according to the Geneva Convention...
> 
> But it's my Pathan blood speaking.


You *WILL* do the honorable thing and restrain your passion.

This is a military oriented forum. As such, *ALL* things relevant to military affairs are open for discussion. When I was active duty in the USAF, the thought of being captured by the enemy was part of the discussion and torture was included. Pakistan and those who support the Pakistani military *WILL* be honorable warriors -- in real life or in ideals -- and restrain themselves.

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## Dark-Destroyer

Arsalan 345 said:


> embarrassment for india.they are denying that their fighter jet was shot down by paf.humiliation for modi.


That's sad they will even disown their soilders

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## Oruc

Dear indians! I think you dropped something. And this time its not payload but a living pilot.

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## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> The Pakistani jet spewing smoke in air and pilot opening parachute is on air on Indian news channel.


Sir he is standing their with service no.!


----------



## messiach

@ All members
NOW HAPPY.

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## timmy_area51

maverick1977 said:


> Can’t wait for videos or plane shot down



you can find videos on Rt.com

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## TheDarkKnight

arbit said:


> The Pakistani jet spewing smoke in air and pilot opening parachute is on air on Indian news channel.


Has IAF claimed the kill?
Who was standing there making a video btw?


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

ziaulislam said:


> Sir he is standing their with service no.!



Lol they will disown him


----------



## ziaulislam

Now its confirmed


----------



## cerberus

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100668232128548864


bharak rakshak


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Clutch said:


> Kill him... Kill the Hindutva terrorist!
> 
> They have declared war on us... REVENGE!!!
> 
> I .WANT REVENGE!!!



Better to use them for PR purposes to totally embarrass India on the world stage.

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## ziaulislam

Dark-Destroyer said:


> Lol they will disown him


It's published in their gazzate


----------



## aziqbal

Now Someone tell me

WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN

WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT THEN DOWN


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

cerberus said:


> bharak rakshak



So are you saying he isn't Indian?


----------



## razgriz19

Tameem said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120


They should treat him well. He's a POW and was just following orders of his superiors.

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## mudas777

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?



We don't want to unless we are invited for one.


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

arbit said:


> The news is a few hours old, it is understandable PAF will want to keep it under wraps. Videos will be shared later. In the meantime, war like situation in here. Delhi airport operations are also being suspended and Pakistani airspace is in the process of being blocked.
> The last line is yet to be fully confirmed though.








*Indian wing commander - Abhinandar*..

More pics & videos coming... we've your fighter Jet wreckage & what India has to back her statements?? Show us evidence to support your Statement lol... 

By the way 
F-16s were not used -- a mix of Jf-17 & other fighter jets were used.

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## ghost250

but but but india supapawa.......

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## gambit

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Better to use them for PR purposes to totally embarrass India on the world stage.


Pakistan *WILL* do no such things. The Indian pilots will be confined to quarters and not exploited for political purposes.

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## SHAH07

Indians dead after seeing this... huge huge huge slap on the face on India...

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## Dark-Destroyer

razgriz19 said:


> They should treat him well. He's a POW and was just following orders of his superiors.



Pakistani military is professional and will treat him accordingly but Indians are cowards

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## ziaulislam

ziaulislam said:


> It's published in their gazzate





Dark-Destroyer said:


> Lol they will disown him

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## bananarepublic

Can anyone give me the list of dual seat IAF planes ??


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

gambit said:


> No, Pakistan will do no such things.
> 
> Pakistan will treat these pilots as legal prisoners of war (POW), even if no official declaration of war exists. These pilots will receive medical treatment and will be quartered according to their ranks. Their return to India maybe negotiated but in the meantime, Pakistan will do the honorable thing and respect these men for what they are -- fellow men-at-arms.



Exactly, we will give respect to human life and dignity to even POWs. We are not Indians.

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## mjnaushad

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Better to use them for PR purposes to totally embarrass India on the world stage.


I believe that is Violation of Geneva convention.

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## indian my friend

I feel sorry for this gentleman hope pakistan will show some mercy we must stop the war and ask for our pilots every life matters


----------



## Great Janjua

Hahaha

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## TheDarkKnight

cerberus said:


> bharak rakshak


You need to wait for India to disown him first!

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## Rashid Mahmood

India is diplomatically DEAD.

what face do they have now, expect to beg Pakistan..

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## Ghessan

just disown officialy him and we will keep him as a souvenir of our bravery for the rest of his life.


----------



## darksider

now this is called a surgical strike.
i am feeling so proud. my, all doubts are washed away.
sorry for doubting you
well-done guys
isey kehtey hain nehley pey dehla

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## Musafir117

Where is Modi Kanjar the Butcher head of a terrorist party? I need a bomb drop where ever he is hiding his dirty hairy axx.

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## Icewolf

Great Janjua said:


> Hahaha
> View attachment 542327




Lmaooooo... Indians what do you have to say about this???????????


----------



## Cookie Monster

Bindas said:


> You have to show downed indian jet in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. And Captured Pilot. And 2 Indian pilots are running. 3 pilots one plane. ?
> Lets wait.


So far Pakistan has been the only one showing proof...ur side as usual is only making claims.

As for 3 pilots...it didn't say one plane. It says 2 planes were shot down. One could be a twin seater and the second could be single seat fighter jet. One of those jets fell in Pak's side of Kashmir and the other in IOK. However based on where the pilot ejected and parachuted, despite one fighter jet ending in IOK, the pilot can still end up in Pak's side of the Kashmir.

Waiting for more reports regarding these jets and pilots.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

good thing is that all prisoner will be treated with respect as they should be. It is an obligation.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

gambit said:


> Pakistan *WILL* do no such things. The Indian pilots will be confined to quarters and not exploited for political purposes.



We have to clear Indian lies first. This is living proof.

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## arbit

ice_man said:


> we gave you proof of destroyed planes also wing commander ABHI NANDAN caught.
> 
> can you please provide proof of F16 pilot or plane
> 
> if not shut up



If indeed the news of pilot captured is true then its worrisome. However no news of any plane crash in your territory is available in here. So lets wait for official confirmation. 



bananarepublic said:


> post the link





Watching on TV. Will provide links later. hectic activity here.


----------



## Bindas

Ghessan said:


> just disown officialy him and we will keep him as a souvenir of our bravery for the rest of his life.




We will never disown.


----------



## Windjammer

aziqbal said:


> Now Someone tell me
> 
> WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN
> 
> WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT THEN DOWN


Some reports say SU-30....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SSGcommandoPAK



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## Sine Nomine

indian my friend said:


> I feel sorry for this gentleman hope pakistan will show some mercy we must stop the war and ask for our pilots every life matters


He is POW and Pakistan will treat him as our religion,state law and Geneva Convention (1929) allows us to.


----------



## Mugwop

For Yah's sake learn to record and please turn off that annoying ringtone.


----------



## Path-Finder

it seems M4/AR platform is becoming common!

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## shanipisces2002

Check out @SadiqSohail124’s Tweet:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669352888680448

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## HydNizam

Meeting between PM NSA home minister and RAW army chiefs still going on. This is a huge embarrassment for India.

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## Great Janjua

Bindas said:


> We will never disown.


Pakistan has prevailed again


----------



## Icewolf

Chhatrapati said:


> IAF pilots don't sport long mustaches unless he's a Sikh but he has no turban either.








Here you go buddy. Read and weep

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Path-Finder




----------



## Cookie Monster

Bindas said:


> We will never disown.


Aray disown ker do yaar...hum usko patli daal k bajaey biryani khilaein ge. He will be treated well.


----------



## gambit

mjnaushad said:


> I believe that is Violation of Geneva convention.


It is. Here is an excellent opportunity for Pakistan to stand apart from the many atrocious behaviors in conflicts, and I say that to include dishonorable acts by US. *DO NOT* repeat the mistakes made by others.

Reactions: Like Like:
6 | Wow Wow:
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## Dark-Destroyer

arbit said:


> If indeed the news of pilot captured is true then its worrisome. However no news of any plane crash in your territory is available in here. So lets wait for official confirmation.
> Personally you deserved more worse they way you was warmongering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watching on TV. Will provide links later. hectic activity here.



You guys all wanted this to happen you wanted Pakistan to respond so it's not worrisome you got what you wanted

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## khansaheeb

Indian pilots can relax, their ejection seats work. Seems like they are trigger happy with the ejection seat trigger.

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## FalconStar

For anyone who doubts if he's real or not. Here's some more proof.

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## enquencher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669321796186112

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100668012917604353


----------



## Imran Khan

Now this one is real sur ji kal strike

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669477505634304

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## blueazure

kalbhoshan has company now

give them a bridge table pl

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## Tps43

Mentee said:


> @Maxpane @The Sandman @Great Janjua here you go guys. Two captured, One freak is being searched for.


Jani abb kuch paf se

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## KRAIT

Windjammer said:


> *On the Indian Side.*


This is Surya Kiran jet pilot. At least listen to audio. It is south Indian language. I mean stop peddling fake news.

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## aziqbal

Windjammer said:


> Some reports say SU-30....



ALLAH O AKBAR


----------



## monitor

Kwame Brown said:


> Is India and Pakistan going to war?



No they are going to picnic



Path-Finder said:


> it seems M4/AR platform is becoming common!



well done.

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## Dark-Destroyer

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669321796186112



Yeah so he said we shit 2 down and one was in India that's just their failure as usual


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669477505634304

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## Mugwop

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> good thing is that all prisoner will be treated with respect as they should be. It is an obligation.


If modi wants him back he should apologise on behalf of india and admit they are wrong.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Their identities, rank, aircraft and number needs to be made available to the world to disprove Indian lies.

We will treat them well and they will rubbish Indian lies.

India has been embarrassed today and the world should know it.

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## KRAIT

gambit said:


> Pakistan *WILL* do no such things. The Indian pilots will be confined to quarters and not exploited for political purposes.


The video is of a pilot in Indian airspace. The language is Indian. Its an old video.


----------



## mjnaushad

iPhone said:


> The DG ISPR butchered the English language. Geez-a-lu ‍♂️


I talk like him. No wonder i failed my last two job interviews.

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## Arsalan 345

SorryNotSorry said:


> Expect a phenomenal retaliation.



we told you last night we will hit you.first fuel supply depots now iaf jets.punishment will continue.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671056472432642
I agree we still have a colonel missing in Nepal and we should use these pilots to trade for him!!

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## Great Janjua

SorryNotSorry said:


> Expect a phenomenal retaliation.


We shall capture more


----------



## ziaulislam

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669321796186112


So three aircrafts lost


----------



## Hareeb



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Path-Finder

Imran Khan said:


> Now this one is real sur ji kal strike


i thought you committed seppuku

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## IFB

ISPR has gone on record saying they have the IAF pilot...still no word from our side...ISPR if they dont have the pilot and to lie is beyond stupid...modi maar gaya in this election if confirmed by indian media


----------



## darksider

@MastanKhan what you think about this situation?


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

SorryNotSorry said:


> Expect a phenomenal retaliation.


Lol go have a cow cola boy lol a minute ago you was all denying it now your talking more shit make up your mind you bunch of b1tch3s

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## Mentee

SorryNotSorry said:


> Expect a phenomenal retaliation.



Only in the news rooms of Indian media 
Just wait for the cross border air roads vdieo to be released by pak military and of downing of the Indiana jets Too. 
Unlike indians we demand proof form our govt

Meanwhile enjoy the show veeray

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## ZAC1

Well DGISPR confirmed most of my info which i gathered from my friends of PAF

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## I S I

Such a embarrassment for India.

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## Great Janjua

Hareeb said:


> View attachment 542331
> View attachment 542332


He shocked


----------



## Men in Green

BOOOOM BABYYYYYYYY!!!!


----------



## Englishman

This is a serious situation u all need to relax.


----------



## SirHatesALot

KRAIT said:


> The video is of a pilot in Indian airspace. The language is Indian. Its an old video.


they have captured Indian pilots there are videos and pics all over the internet Pakistanis have won. Indian Armed forces are incompetent

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Mentee said:


> @Maxpane @The Sandman @Great Janjua here you go guys. Two captured, One freak is being searched for.


The other person besides him is a Pakistani paramilitary member.


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

Please share the real surgical strike !
Abhinandan Varthaman's Statement. He has been caught by #PakistanArmy this morning.
Service No: 27981
Branch F(P)
Date Commissioned 19 Jun 2004
Course 173 Course
For Confirmation:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/D...kOVeZsfaKFO9_pUIy_B96w2Iszy0Dz-2sEas-gw3jIg00

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## arbit

Dark-Destroyer said:


> You guys all wanted this to happen you wanted Pakistan to respond so it's not worrisome you got what you wanted



I am worried for my man in your custody (if true). I am not worried about the eventual outcome of this battle. 
Your guys killed 40 of our people in a suicide attack. You must pay the price.


----------



## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100666356284964864


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

Who's the other pilot though confirmed 2 captured

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## ziaulislam

SorryNotSorry said:


> Expect a phenomenal retaliation.


Lets see ..this will end up in full blown war ...if that full retaliation happens with cruise missles and balstic missles each side can hit each other...will than force india for ground retilation..which will force Pakistan for counter response..in failure/occupation nukes will come out ..so lets hope it stops here..with Pakistan releasing the pilots ASAP

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100668725651488769


----------



## Rafael

Great Janjua said:


> Where is that bitch @Levina



I'm missing her too. See you did not have to wait too long my dear @Levina 

Hun arraam hey!?

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## Longhorn

iPhone said:


> This was still an only defensive exercise. I’m not satisfied. I want PAF to enter their air space, drop bombs , come back then do it again. Only then will the bharits get the message. I’m telling you they don’t give two shits about peace. Theyre savages, they’ll only understand they language of gun fire.


They've got the message. 
No free hits. 
Pakistan is not their whipping boy 
The ball is in their court.
We're chilled.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671600326836225


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

KRAIT said:


> The video is of a pilot in Indian airspace. The language is Indian. Its an old video.


Do you not see the Pakistani uniforms of those interrogating him?

Such denial...


----------



## JohnWick

shanipisces2002 said:


> Check out @SadiqSohail124’s Tweet:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669352888680448


He ccompleted his training 
Excellent work

I think they are were flying 
Migs 29 or mirage 2000
Anyone can confirm it...


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

Dark-Destroyer said:


> Who's the other pilot though confirmed 2 captured


they are in CMH

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671600326836225

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## Signalian

Why would IAF send over Mig-21's, where were SU 30's ?Mig-29's?


----------



## fitpOsitive

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Please share the real surgical strike !
> Abhinandan Varthaman's Statement. He has been caught by #PakistanArmy this morning.
> Service No: 27981
> Branch F(P)
> Date Commissioned 19 Jun 2004
> Course 173 Course
> For Confirmation:
> http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/D...kOVeZsfaKFO9_pUIy_B96w2Iszy0Dz-2sEas-gw3jIg00



Kia mochain hain. Wah.
Naak toot gai bechary ki.

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## Maarkhoor

Path-Finder said:


>


@Levina @KRAIT


----------



## mjnaushad

IceCold said:


> For God sake yar, dont fall for Indian nonsense. F-16s pecha thori lena hain.


As far i remember it was promised that F 16 will not be used for aggression against India and only for defence purposes. Possibility is to avoid any contract violations we did not use F 16s. This is just a speculation. @Windjammer 

Your views.


----------



## Telescopic Sight

SirHatesALot said:


> they have captured Indian pilots there are videos and pics all over the internet Pakistanis have won. Indian Armed forces are incompetent


Undeniable. But I would wait till all the facts are in before passing judgement.


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

arbit said:


> I am worried for my man in your custody (if true). I am not worried about the eventual outcome of this battle.
> Your guys killed 40 of our people in a suicide attack. You must pay the price.



How unfortunate you still wanna get your a55 kicked some more come sonny boy we will teach you a lesson you won't forget you cowards


----------



## Sabretooth

Clutch said:


> Its what I want... I am Pathan my blood boils easy... I know Pakistan is not a nation of bloodthirsty Hindutvas .... We will treat them with respect and according to the Geneva Convention...
> 
> But it's my Pathan blood speaking.



Sometimes, one wants to just crush the roaches!


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

At least the pilot will get a proper comode in CMH.

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## Beskar

Imran Khan said:


> Now this one is real sur ji kal strike



Hun araam hai tenu? You kept barking against our Military, should have been dropped off this website.

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## ZAC1

arbit said:


> I am worried for my man in your custody (if true). I am not worried about the eventual outcome of this battle.
> Your guys killed 40 of our people in a suicide attack. You must pay the price.


kindly add 2 jets and 4 post of nikyal sector in it...


----------



## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670119544524800

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

gambit said:


> Pakistan *WILL* do no such things. The Indian pilots will be confined to quarters and not exploited for political purposes.


he will be treated with respect. Indian AF knows that very well as we have captured their pilots before as well.This was reiterated in the press brief just held.It did not have to be stated but we said it as we give respect & expect it in returns as well.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Dark-Destroyer said:


> Who's the other pilot though confirmed 2 captured


Hospital

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## Oruc

Signalian said:


> Why would IAF send over Mig-21's, where were SU 30's ?Mig-29's?


i think they wanted to prove their Bis was superior to Thunder.


----------



## IceCold

mjnaushad said:


> As far i remember it was promised that F 16 will not be used for aggression against India and only for defence purposes. Possibility is to avoid any contract violations we did not use F 16s. This is just a speculation. @Windjammer
> 
> Your views.


First we are not using it in aggression but rather responding to one. Secondly there is no restriction on the use of any F-16. Thats just a myth busted so many times on this very forum.

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## maverick1977

arbit said:


> I am worried for my man in your custody (if true). I am not worried about the eventual outcome of this battle.
> Your guys killed 40 of our people in a suicide attack. You must pay the price.



Kashmir’s killed them asshole, how long will u live in denial, own the responsibilities of your atrocities in Kashmir,

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## valkyr_96

arbit said:


> I am worried for my man in your custody (if true). I am not worried about the eventual outcome of this battle.
> Your guys killed 40 of our people in a suicide attack. You must pay the price.


 This is all fake please refer to your own country's propaganda

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## ice_man

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100668012917604353



@arbit i hope this video is enough proof for you enjoy it. and cry

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## monitor

Pakistan army releases images of a downed Indian jet and documents/guns recovered from the captured pilots. #*PakistanArmyZindabad* #*PakistanStrikesBack*



















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671625861783553ndian Pilot who is captured by Pakistan * Name: Wing commodore Abhinandan
Working as Flying pilot for IAF Service No. 27981

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## Rashid Mahmood

Windjammer said:


> *On the Indian Side.*


 This is an old video.


----------



## Path-Finder

messiach said:


> @ All members
> NOW HAPPY.


I guess doubts on JF-17 will vanish

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ProudPak

Clutch said:


> Its what I want... I am Pathan my blood boils easy... I know Pakistan is not a nation of bloodthirsty Hindutvas .... We will treat them with respect and according to the Geneva Convention...
> 
> But it's my Pathan blood speaking.


Bhai i am also part pathan...but we are muslims first we do not kill for sport.

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670023218155520


----------



## Windjammer

__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## jupiter2007

India is disowning their pilots, claiming all are counted, no plane crash. Lol


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

SirHatesALot said:


> they have captured Indian pilots there are videos and pics all over the internet Pakistanis have won. Indian Armed forces are incompetent


bhai ji, there is no victory except peace. Let us pray for that.

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## arbit

Dark-Destroyer said:


> How unfortunate you still wanna get your a55 kicked some more come sonny boy we will teach you a lesson you won't forget you cowards



We are here and are not going any where you fucking converts.


----------



## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670023218155520

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## TsAr

Signalian said:


> Why would IAF send over Mig-21's, where were SU 30's ?Mig-29's?


Mig 21 is a very good interceptor

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Muhammad Omar



Reactions: Like Like:
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## ProudPak

Arsalan said:


> One Su-30, on Mig-21 shot down by PAF formation involving JF-17 and Mirage.


Image of su30...which one landed in azad Kashmir


----------



## Hayreddin

1 was mirage 2000 and other was mig 21


----------



## ZAC1

monitor said:


> Pakistan army releases images of a downed Indian jet and documents/guns recovered from the captured pilots. #*PakistanArmyZindabad* #*PakistanStrikesBack*


ya tariqa hota hai saboot daina ka..bro u made my day


----------



## Mugwop

monitor said:


> Pakistan army releases images of a downed Indian jet and documents/guns recovered from the captured pilots. #*PakistanArmyZindabad* #*PakistanStrikesBack*


Where did you find these pictures?


----------



## bananarepublic

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670119544524800




SSG soldiers around the Pilot..


----------



## Path-Finder

Maarkhoor said:


> @Levina @KRAIT


this is a fake doctored pic!



Thunderdome said:


> Hun araam hai tenu? You kept barking against our Military, should have been dropped off this website.


why can't it be done! If likes of him cannot stand with Pakistan through bad times then f#ck off, do ghar wapsi and live in india.

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## Men in Green

*پاکستان زنداباد*


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100672228021153792

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Mugwop said:


> If modi wants him back he should apologise on behalf of india and admit they are wrong.


we can keep them for a while. Officers are kept in a proper room with all amenities.


----------



## maverick1977

Dual seater, most likely is a Su30 shot down ... if that is the case then indians will cry for the rest of their lives

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## ZAC1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670119544524800check ur indian pilot

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## arbit

The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21


----------



## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671595914412035

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Signalian

Muhammad Omar said:


> View attachment 542335
> View attachment 542336
> View attachment 542337
> View attachment 542338


Is that an SSG insignia shoulder patch on bearded soldier with half face showing in pic?


----------



## undercover JIX

Great Janjua said:


> Where is that bitch @Levina


busy in randi rona..


----------



## SirHatesALot

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> bhai ji, there is no victory except peace. Let us pray for that.


I agree at least for the sake of Indian Armed forces there should be peace

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WaLeEdK2




----------



## arbit

The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Tps43

timmy_area51 said:


> it's 2:1 for now


2:0

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## Telescopic Sight

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21


How do you confirm that he is a mig 21 pilot?


----------



## maverick1977

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.



Wait till you see Su30 wreckage ... u will piss in your pants

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## Great Janjua

Signalian said:


> Is that an SSG insignia shoulder patch on bearded soldier with half face showing in pic?


Love the unity between locals and army,they even let the locals take selfies [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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## Dark-Destroyer

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.


Will stick the mine up your a55 and send it back

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## Sabretooth

thunderr said:


> Hindustaniyano paa khor mai darta ghin omandalo dala bachu .. Am really happy



Uregut. Ustagee da dumra ghusa

Reactions: Like Like:
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## graphican

Armani said:


> Picture of MiG-27 crash from 2017  Pakistani dramebaazi at finest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.indiatimes.com/news/ind...r-fighter-jet-accidents-last-year-274885.html



It's possible this is not the recent image.


----------



## Bratva

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667103835648000

@Hodor @HRK Avenger 1 is the call sign of SAAB AEWC ? It was up in the air in 12-1 am today it seems

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## KRAIT

Maarkhoor said:


> @Levina @KRAIT


IAF pilots are not allowed to keep mustaches.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100672510411051008

Reactions: Like Like:
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## atya

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.


Nope, you did yesterday by violating our airspace

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

SirHatesALot said:


> I agree at least for the sake of Indian Armed forces there should be peace


war and peace work both way.
the fact that u & I are having a civil & respectable conversation shows how easy it is to get & receive respect & attain peace.It's not too late. All it takes is to issues a reconciliatory statement from both sides.

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## litman

Windjammer said:


> *On the Indian Side.*


he should tell indian govt do not try to get election victory by putting lives of more then a billion people on stake


----------



## ice_man

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.



can't be mig 21 because it is a dual seater plane

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## MAd

Wah, dil khush kar diya. Salute and zindabad. Just watching bhangi media, gone from chest thumping to eating sh*t and talk of de-escalation quick time. Kya howa bhangioun? Tutti nikal gaye? Keep that bhangi pilot on lock down, this bhangi will come in handy for later

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Guys according to 3 strong sources 1 SU-30 MKI and MIG was SHot down by JF-17 Thunder,Big achievement as Thunder has now become a battle proven aircraft !

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TheDarkKnight

SorryNotSorry said:


> Expect a phenomenal retaliation.


For what friend? You already killed 300+ terrorists (the strike was so severe that all bodies have disappeared otherwise we would have seen funerals or visits to hospitals for dead/injured) But the pakistanis just dropped duds staying within its airspace to pacify the public - cant you even compromise on this now oh Maha Bharat !!’

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## Mugwop

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> we can keep them for a while. Officers are kept in a proper room with all amenities.


Keep him till the election and let's see if modi is willing to sacrifice his ego for the sake of this pilot.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100672228021153792

Reactions: Like Like:
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## shanipisces2002

KRAIT said:


> IAF pilots are not allowed to keep mustaches.


Sigh the denials are on an epic levels [emoji28][emoji1787][emoji1787]

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## ZAC1

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.


u should ask ur PM for this embarssment...

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## Hareeb

AyanRay said:


> That images, including all other images are either old or photoshopped. Already debunked.


Photoshopped? Really?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100648712412499968

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100672228021153792


----------



## Shot-Caller

jupiter2007 said:


> India is disowning their pilots, claiming all are counted, no plane crash. Lol


What option do they have? They have been immensely embarrassed internationally. They claimed surgical strike. No proof given. They claimed killing 300 people by airstrike. No proof given. Pakistan claimed capturing your pilots alive and destroying your jets. Proofs everywhere. Pilots shown to the world. What else you think they will say?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## scionofPakwattan

gambit said:


> Pakistan *WILL* do no such things. The Indian pilots will be confined to quarters and not exploited for political purposes.


yup that sounds about right, Chivalry is usually the order of the day in Pak Armed Forces, "serve honorably"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Maarkhoor

KRAIT said:


> IAF pilots are not allowed to keep mustaches.


Lols he may be Afghan flying Indian jet

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Mugwop

MAd said:


> Wah, dil khush kar diya. Salute and zindabad. Just watching bhangi media, gone from chest thumping to eating sh*t and talk of de-escalation quick time. Kya howa bhangioun? Tutti nikal gaye? Keep that bhangi pilot on lock down, this bhangi will come in handy for later


Bhartiyo ki tutti nikal gaye hai,Aur toilets bhi nahi

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## ZAC1

National Command Authority just started....Pathan is incharge here...India bach ka rahna

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## T-Faz

He should be treated for his injuries, and looked after well.

If I were incharge, I would set an example by giving the Indian pilot the necessary help and even start negotiating his return. This will help de-escalate the situation and will be a major PR victory.

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## IceCold

Path-Finder said:


> I guess doubts on JF-17 will vanish


Yup and imagine how capable would the JF-17 block 3 would be.

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669937100775424


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## Signalian

which aircrafts did PAF use?


----------



## Arsalan



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## Icewolf

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.



Why stepped into a mine field? Don't forget that it was India who showed the aggression first by violating Pak airspace. Don't forget that Imran Khan told you guys before that both countries should talk about their issues instead of fighting but India refused to listen. So Pak really has no choice against war mongering Indians.

The India-Pakistan relationship is not like Israel-Lebanon or Israel-Syria where you can violate and air strike at any point of time. Pakistan ain't your dogs that you can violate the airspace any time you like.

Indians should no better than to provoke a fight on the worlds hottest border. Shame on you trying to act the victim here.

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## Cuirassier

SSG recovered this pilot, just like FLT Lt Nachiketa was by 1st Commando Battalion "YALDRAM".

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## Sine Nomine

Most probably Indian fighters were ambushed by Jf-17 of black widows inside AJK after they crossed LOC while chasing strike package.
Or
Escort aircrafts did took them out.

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## ARMalik

I am hearing JF-17 shot down SU-30!! Very impressive if true ... Bloody hell!!

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## ZAC1

Morale in PAF is boosted 
Jf-17 now have 2 kills in his record now

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## valkyr_96

arbit said:


> The report of captured pilot seems to be true. He is a pilot of Mig 21. You just stepped into a mine field.


 It has not be confirmed by the Indian government just like Hussein Mubarak Patel. Infact they have denied it all airmen are accounted for. unfortunately i cant post the bloomberg feed


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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100675759574867968


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100673177406058496
Guys can u confirm which aircraft is this.


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## waz

gambit said:


> No, Pakistan will do no such things.
> 
> Pakistan will treat these pilots as legal prisoners of war (POW), even if no official declaration of war exists. These pilots will receive medical treatment and will be quartered according to their ranks. Their return to India maybe negotiated but in the meantime, Pakistan will do the honorable thing and respect these men for what they are -- fellow men-at-arms.



Excellent post, spot on.
He should be treated with dignity and respect. The eyes of the world are on this.

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## SecularNationalist

gambit said:


> No, Pakistan will do no such things.
> 
> Pakistan will treat these pilots as legal prisoners of war (POW), even if no official declaration of war exists. These pilots will receive medical treatment and will be quartered according to their ranks. Their return to India maybe negotiated but in the meantime, Pakistan will do the honorable thing and respect these men for what they are -- fellow men-at-arms.


You are right and thats exactly we are doing right now.

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## uzbi aka viper

ARMalik said:


> I am hearing JF-17 shot down SU-30!! Very impressive if true ... Bloody hell!!


unleashed.

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## S-A-B-E-R->

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100675759574867968

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670023218155520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100672228021153792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100669937100775424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100675759574867968

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## Icewolf

Modi got humiliated. He thought he could attack Pak and would get free easy votes and Pak wouldn't attack back at all. Fast forward to today. 

Shame on Modi for war mongering to just votes.


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## The wheel of time

That link is not opening. Besides our pilot must have directive to not to cross LOC and pakistanis are claiming that they were baited. How can it be so. If they went to attack, they would surely wont take old MIG 21s for sure.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> We are here and are not going any where you fucking converts.


India media confirms the capture

Lets hope both sides call it a day but modi won't 

Its time for rich elite to tighten their nuts/bolts on modi and force him to stop

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## kingQamaR

khansaheeb said:


> Can't believe Indians would pitch Mig21 against JF17. Sending in SU30s is a gamble too and it is clear now JF17s are far superior aircraft to the SU30s.



Jf17 was made to break Indian hearts and its target is Indian love affair with SU30 fighter. 

Putin will be having sleepless nights knowing JF17 is out hunting there birds in the hands of India 

Jf17 make your mark now this is a blessing for potential buyers to see this bird of pray ( shaheen) in action



ZedZeeshan said:


> View attachment 542326



This is one lucky mother fucker pilot of not being downed in our KP. After there bombing stunt there night before. He’d be now be hanging by his fucking neck after a good session of tortureing first.

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## ZAC1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100673596861677568 check this one

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## maverick1977

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Most probably Indian fighters were ambushed by Jf-17 of black widows inside AJK after they crossed LOC while chasing strike package.
> Or
> Escort aircrafts did took them out.



Since it’s dual seater I am sure Su30 is shot down..... and it’s shot by jf17 indians will never dare talk about weak Pakistani Air Force...

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## Tps43

ZAC1 said:


> Morale in PAF is boosted
> Jf-17 now have 2 kills in his record now


3 one iranian drone as well

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## Oracle

SU MKI shot down

if thats true , thats the biggest selling point of JF17
JF17 the Sukhoi killer

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## Death Adder

Mig-29,21


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Signalian said:


> which aircrafts did PAF use?


Thunder is now a battle proven aircraft !

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## ziaulislam




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## maximuswarrior

That is bloody huge!!!! If true, Indians will prepare their coffins today. They brag so much about their Flankers LOL

You know what is even more sweet? If the kill was carried out by a Thunder!!! That will send a message across oceans.

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## Fieldmarshal

Windjammer said:


> Some reports say SU-30....


I am being told it's 1 su30 and 1 mirage 2000


----------



## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100660609379643392How Pakistani Armed forces treat Indian captured pilot Salute To Pakistan Army


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100675652422782977
Even those war mongering yesterday are questioning Modi. 
Modi govt is in deep shit

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## ziaulislam

maverick1977 said:


> If Su30 is shot down by jf17, then indians will never dare talk about weak Pakistani Air Force...


As I said sd10 is a good weapon

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## Signalian

is this the first SU-30 shot down in A2A combat?


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Death Adder said:


> Mig-29,21


nop SU-30


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## I S I

Hope this is true. If it's true then we can afford the loss of one of our F16 too(Indian claimed.. No proofs so far).


----------



## Musafir117

It’s confirmed by my news 
We hit few bunkers as well

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Lol, Indians n twitter still denying. Im talking about the current pictures and videos. We do need to stop posting olde stuff. Doenst go well as we are not lying.

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## Tps43

Musafir117 said:


> It’s confirmed by my news
> We hit few bunkers as well


Yes we did

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## SSGcommandoPAK

I S I said:


> Hope this is true. If it's true then we can afford the loss of one of our F16 too(Indian claimed.. No proofs so far).


F-16s were not used thunders were used

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## arbit

ZAC1 said:


> u should ask ur PM for this embarssment...



Doesn't matter now. This is turning into something that you will regret. People here on this side are very clear.


----------



## farhan_9909

Interesting point is that major media around the world are reporting our words

a political suicide by modi

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## Daghalodi

Indians can go vote for Modi now!!

#screwyou56inchchest


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## BATMAN

ice_man said:


> Allahmdulliah Allah ka karam.
> 
> we have shown our capability and capacity.
> 
> *Its time to de escalate*.



What a moronic idea!
This is what NS did in Kargil and than India stated they won the war.

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## Dark-Destroyer

arbit said:


> you screw goats when you get horny. Then eat them. You drink the piss of camels. You export donkey meat for your survival. You marry your sisters you inbreds.
> 
> I will be back later to trade insults if that's what you want. Don't go anywhere. In the meantime a strike on your Brigade HQ is confirmed. Chew on that.



Lol Haha Bollywood movie son we already made you look the b1tch3s you are you can cheat thump all you like the Indian feciating brovado you have dont forget you 5hit on the streets lol we have and will continue to dominate you cow cola piss drinkers and we will continue to slap you with cow steaks lol lol if you can worship a cow you'll believe anything you retarded peices of 5hit that you are


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## I S I

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> F-16s were not used thunders were used


In kashmir sector, yes. But they claiming of shooting it down in Punjab sector.


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## arbit

Telescopic Sight said:


> How do you confirm that he is a mig 21 pilot?



The uniform pattern is Russian. I am not confirming anything, that's what is in the air.


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## ice_man

BATMAN said:


> What a moronic idea!
> This is what NS did in Kargil and than India stated they won the war.



what do you want nuclear war next?


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## ZAC1

Tps43 said:


> 3 one iranian drone as well


Yeap...
for all those who always have asked about the capabilities of jf-17 ..have been answered...abi tu block 3 nai aya 
well i am happy.

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## maximuswarrior

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> F-16s were not used thunders were used



Huge! Absolutely colossal!!

The Indians are going to weep. They are going weep rivers today. This is going to destroy their ego to microscopic levels.

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## maverick1977

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100660609379643392How Pakistani Armed forces treat Indian captured pilot Salute To Pakistan Army




Can someone identify this pilots insignia ?? And find out which squadron he belongs to ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indian_Air_Force_aircraft_squadrons


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## arbit

Dark-Destroyer said:


> Lol Haha Bollywood movie son we already made you look the b1tch3s you are you can cheat thump all you like the Indian feciating brovado you have dont forget you 5hit on the streets lol we have and will continue to dominate you cow cola piss drinkers and we will continue to slap you with cow steaks lol lol if you can worship a cow you'll believe anything you retarded peices of 5hit that you are



Don't burst a vein yet. Relax


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## Areesh

arbit said:


> Doesn't matter now. This is turning into something that you will regret. People here on this side are very clear.



We would f&*ck you hard

We are also very clear

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## Zee-shaun

Here's an old video of the captured IAF pilot Abhinandan. He is supposedly a MKI pilot. Why was he flying mig-21??
Did we shoot down a MKI??

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## hunter_hunted

The wheel of time said:


> That link is not opening. Besides our pilot must have directive to not to cross LOC and pakistanis are claiming that they were baited. How can it be so. If they went to attack, they would surely wont take old MIG 21s for sure.



Hey but they are captured. So either

1 - they are not very good at following order means undisciplined
2 - they were ordered and downed and captured
3 - they are aliens shapeshifters maybe SKRULLS

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## maverick1977

arbit said:


> you screw goats when you get horny. Then eat them. You drink the piss of camels. You export donkey meat for your survival. You marry your sisters you inbreds.
> 
> I will be back later to trade insults if that's what you want. Don't go anywhere. In the meantime a strike on your Brigade HQ is confirmed. Chew on that.




Rofl, this what happens when Pakistan gives a wild bull a therapy lesson, and rage of denial kicks in

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## Arsalan 345

i don't find any news related to su-30.


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## bananarepublic

maverick1977 said:


> Can someone identify this pilots insignia ?? And find out which squadron he belongs to ?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indian_Air_Force_aircraft_squadrons



the vidoe is from kiran crash few weeks ago

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## ziaulislam

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100660609379643392How Pakistani Armed forces treat Indian captured pilot Salute To Pakistan Army


This one is fake i think...dont spread fake videos

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## khansaheeb

SecularNationalist said:


> You are right and thats exactly we are doing right now.


After a good interrogation of course.

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## SMC

So let me get this straight. According to Indians:

1) An event for which there is documented proof didn't happen.
2) An event for which there is no supporting proof actually happened.

Am I getting this right?

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## Daghalodi

The wheel of time said:


> That link is not opening. Besides our pilot must have directive to not to cross LOC and pakistanis are claiming that they were baited. How can it be so. If they went to attack, they would surely wont take old MIG 21s for sure.



Go vote for Modi now unless he will kill more to win elections!!!

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## Telescopic Sight

arbit said:


> The uniform pattern is Russian. I am not confirming anything, that's what is in the air.



you are correct . Someone posted pics of the stuff recovered from him. There is a survival checklist. It has the jets number on it. It's CU 2238. Bison.

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## maverick1977

Areesh said:


> We would f&*ck you hard
> 
> We are also very clear




No worries, right now we ducked u hard... when u will do it then we will talk ... we are enjoying this moment by praising our Lord for his mercy on us and the power he vested in us to teach u a lesson

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## HydNizam

Zee-shaun said:


> Here's an old video of the captured IAF pilot Abhinandan. He is supposedly a MKI pilot. Why was he flying mig-21??
> Did we shoot down a MKI??



Wow Su-30 MKi shot by JF-17

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## Mutakalim

gambit said:


> You *WILL* do the honorable thing and restrain your passion.
> 
> This is a military oriented forum. As such, *ALL* things relevant to military affairs are open for discussion. When I was active duty in the USAF, the thought of being captured by the enemy was part of the discussion and torture was included. Pakistan and those who support the Pakistani military *WILL* be honorable warriors -- in real life or in ideals -- and restrain themselves.


Obviously, we will treat him as per Geneva conventions. He will be treated as POW.

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## Men in Green

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100654101547884544
@Imran Khan sahab kal to ap buhat bol rahe the?

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## SecularNationalist

shourov323 said:


> but but but india supapawa.......


Now see how embarrassing this whole situation is for indians and india.Things are actually supposed to be this way when you elect a man like modi who is a known hindu extremist and mass murderer.Yesterday indian lies are exposed and today during day light the whole world have seen the wreckage of their two fighter jets ,one dead body of a pilot and three arrested pilots in pakistan.On top of that now they are going to beg us for the release of their pilots.I have no sympathies for those indians who voted for modi but i feel pity for sane,responsible and educated indians who are not involved in this mess but facing embarrassment. 
A lesson for indian government is not to escalate further or else more embarrassments will come for you.
Pakistan Zindabad

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## undercover JIX

Signalian said:


> Is that an SSG insignia shoulder patch on bearded soldier with half face showing in pic?


SSG


----------



## ZAC1

Musafir117 said:


> It’s confirmed by my news
> We hit few bunkers as well


bro PA on ground have done alot...it will be soon on media..wait karen  abi ka liya india ki kafi besti ho chuki hai



arbit said:


> Doesn't matter now. This is turning into something that you will regret. People here on this side are very clear.


please make one bollywood movie on this embarssement

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## ZedZeeshan

Squadron Leader Hassan. He shot down Indian Jet..

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## ghazi768

gambit said:


> It is. Here is an excellent opportunity for Pakistan to stand apart from the many atrocious behaviors in conflicts, and I say that to include dishonorable acts by US. *DO NOT* repeat the mistakes made by others.


Rest Assured, we'll treat them well and according to Geneva convention.


----------



## IceCold

Indians gone dark

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## messiach

@ All members 
F16 are no more relevant to these debates. They went out of favour years ago. We have moved miles & miles ahead. The toy is broken and the toddler is now a young man.

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## monitor

Pride of Pakistan In middle sqn ldr Hassan who targeted Indian aircraft :

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## arbit

Areesh said:


> We would f&*ck you hard
> 
> We are also very clear



Knocking on the wrong door pal. Your cousin lives next block.

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## ghost250

SecularNationalist said:


> Now see how embarrassing this whole situation is for indians and india.Things are actually supposed to be this way when you elect a man like modi who is a known hindu extremist and mass murderer.Yesterday indian lies are exposed and today during day light the whole world have seen the wreckage of their two fighter jets ,one dead body of a pilot and three arrested pilots in pakistan.On top of that now they are going to beg us for the release of their pilots.I have no sympathies for those indians who voted for modi but i feel pity for sane,responsible and educated indians who are not involved in this mess but facing embarrassment.
> A lesson for indian government is not to escalate further or else more embarrassments will come for you.
> Pakistan Zindabad


um a bangladeshi and for ur kind info a muslim too!!

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## maverick1977

ZAC1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670119544524800check ur indian pilot



Can someone confirm from the wreckage which aircraft is it? Is it a wing or a vertical stablizer ?


----------



## bananarepublic

arbit said:


> Knocking on the wrong door pal. Your cousin lives next block.



lol nice one..


----------



## Zee-shaun

HydNizam said:


> Wow Su-30 MKi shot by JF-17


So what is a MKI pilot doing in Pakistan's custody?


----------



## Death Adder




----------



## Sheikh Rauf

Half of the indian army soon will be in Pakistan. as a war prisoner.


----------



## Sabretooth

I wonder if yesterday the PAF deliberately let the Mirages escape to make IAF believe they can enter our airspace at will and then lured them in the trap for today? Do any experts care to comment?

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## ThinkLogically

Sorry guys, better luck next time. No damage to IAF Aircrafts. You F16 is down.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Windjammer

Six ground targets on the Indian side were engaged by the PAF but the weapons were aimed away just to prove to the Indians that PAF can hit you at will.





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Icewolf

SMC said:


> So let me get this straight. According to Indians:
> 
> 1) An event for which there is documented proof didn't happen.
> 2) An event for which there is no supporting proof actually happened.
> 
> Am I getting this right?




That's exactly right.

Actually the thing is Indians are extremely embarrassed right now. After all the chest thumping yesterday about sir Ji kal strikes and the ridiculous Indian media warmongering, they got knocked to their senses today. Now they don't know what to do so are making shit up like F-16 got downed and 300 people got killed in Balakot. Makes no sense. No proof either. Meanwhile PAF has provided them with plenty of proof about their pilots getting captured and planes getting shot down.

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## Sine Nomine

aziqbal said:


> Now Someone tell me
> 
> WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN
> 
> WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT THEN DOWN


Mig-21 bison of 51 sq based out of srinagar AFB.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671752252854272Most probably Jf-17 ambushed them or escort fighters downed them as soon as they crossed into AJK.

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## Telescopic Sight

ThinkLogically said:


> Sorry guys, better luck next time. No damage to IAF Aircrafts. You F16 is down.


please , don't deny the obvious. Didn't you see the proof?
Even i feel bad, but you are denying our own soldiers?

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## Tps43

Signalian said:


> which aircrafts did PAF use?


JFT



I S I said:


> In kashmir sector, yes. But they claiming of shooting it down in Punjab sector.


Mirages were used there

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## maximuswarrior

Modi has won his votes now LOL

*Extract all info from pilots and parade them on TV.*

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## Areesh

arbit said:


> Knocking on the wrong door pal. Your cousin lives next block.



I am knocking at the right door. I have asked Wing Commander Abhi about you. He confirmed me personally.

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## bananarepublic

ThinkLogically said:


> Sorry guys, better luck next time. No damage to IAF Aircrafts. You F16 is down.




think Logically

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## Windjammer

*ANI*‏Verified account @ANI 3h3 hours ago
J&K: Pictures of craters formed from Pakistani bombs dropped near Indian Army post in Rajouri sector. Pic courtesy: Army sources)

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## maverick1977

Telescopic Sight said:


> please , don't deny the obvious. Didn't you see the proof?
> Even i feel bad, but you are denying our own soldiers?




Just like denying Kashmir blast was done by Kashmiris and pitted it on Pakistan


----------



## SecularNationalist

shourov323 said:


> um a bangladeshi and for ur kind info a muslim too!!


And i already know that


----------



## maximuswarrior

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Please share the real surgical strike !
> Abhinandan Varthaman's Statement. He has been caught by #PakistanArmy this morning.
> Service No: 27981
> Branch F(P)
> Date Commissioned 19 Jun 2004
> Course 173 Course
> For Confirmation:
> http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/D...kOVeZsfaKFO9_pUIy_B96w2Iszy0Dz-2sEas-gw3jIg00



Haramjaade ki muche dekh LOL

Modi time LOL


----------



## Areesh

I S I said:


> In kashmir sector, yes. But they claiming of shooting it down in Punjab sector.



Nope they are claiming it in Kashmir sector

Jhoot bol rahai hain kanjar

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## maverick1977

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Guys according to 3 strong sources 1 SU-30 MKI and MIG was SHot down by JF-17 Thunder,Big achievement as Thunder has now become a battle proven aircraft !


Yes I have confirmed that too... su30 was shot down...

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## I S I

Sabretooth said:


> I wonder if yesterday the PAF deliberately let the Mirages escape to make IAF believe they can enter our airspace at will and then lured them in the trap for today? Do any experts care to comment?


Nope. That was a 12 plane formation. It was a golden chance missed by PAF air defenders.


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## Fieldmarshal

1 mirage 2000 and 1 su30 shot down

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## Maarkhoor

@Levina 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671752252854272


----------



## Talon

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667103835648000
> 
> @Hodor @HRK Avenger 1 is the call sign of SAAB AEWC ? It was up in the air in 12-1 am today it seems


According to my info Avenger 1 was a fighter and was flying at low altitude.It was airborne 2 hours ago as well


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## Tps43

I S I said:


> Nope. That was a 12 plane formation. It was a golden chance missed by PAF air defenders.


Abhe inki bakwasiyat ko dil par mat le
Jhant ke bal the jo 12 agye?

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## I S I

Areesh said:


> Nope they are claiming it in Kashmir sector
> 
> Jhoot bol rahai hain kanjar


It's a big news if SU30mki is indeed shot down. Bloody hell.

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## valkyr_96

We should make these pilots plant a thousand trees each before we let them go. This is a fair deal.

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Indians are such big idiots that they are saying that these 2-3 aircrafts crashed,how could 2-3 aircrafts crash simultaneously ?

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## maverick1977

Signalian said:


> is this the first SU-30 shot down in A2A combat?



I am hearing Pl5, close combat, but no confirmation on weapons yet... I hope it is a sd10

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## I S I

Tps43 said:


> Abhe inki bakwasiyat ko dil par mat le
> Jhant ke bal the jo 12 agye?


Hahahaha ok bhai. Aap hi sahi hoge.

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## ice_man

where are the indians today? 

the ones jumping up and down yesterday. 

OUR ISPR MAJOR GHAFOOR SAID: WE WILL SHUT THOSE MONKEYS

HE DID IT

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## Ahmet Pasha

PAF k naak me dam jo karne chaley the.


fitpOsitive said:


> Kia mochain hain. Wah.
> Naak toot gai bechary ki.


----------



## Handshake

Clutch said:


> *Indian media is now showing this video of a captured Indian pilot as a captured Pakistani pilot!... Indian media has gone mad with #FakeNews !!!!!! *


Omg hahhaha.


----------



## Rafi

Areesh said:


> I am knocking at the right door. I have asked Wing Commander Abhi about you. He confirmed me personally.



Wing Commander has confirmed, he is his own sisters yaar.

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## Zee-shaun

maximuswarrior said:


> Modi has won his votes now LOL
> 
> *Extract all info from pilots and parade them on TV.*


 BC ko sirf chaddi pehna kar parade karwao and broadcast it live.

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## ziaulislam

Newscasters on indiatoday are freaking out..

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## Salza

Wow devastating reply by PAF

where the f**k is @MastanKhan ......he owe an apology to PAF big time :d

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## ThinkLogically

Telescopic Sight said:


> please , don't deny the obvious. Didn't you see the proof?
> Even i feel bad, but you are denying our own soldiers?


We are not like them to disown our own soldiers, it has never happened in our history. Don't fall for their fakes.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
2


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## Handshake

thunderr said:


> Hindustaniyano paa khor mai darta ghin omandalo dala bachu .. Am really happy


Da Afghanano na khaze takhte dale.
Afghanan mukamal da india pa side o che se india wai agha Afghanistan wala wai.

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## maximuswarrior

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Indians are such big idiots that they are saying that these 2-3 aircrafts crashed,how could 2-3 aircrafts crash simultaneously ?



LOL the whole world is laughing at Indian claims.


----------



## Hayreddin

supposedly 3rd iaf jet also shoot down in iok . 
1 mirage 2000 
1 su30 mki 
1 mig 21 

By jf 17 thunder fighter

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## Daghalodi

Where is Tejas the real supa powa 5th gen aircraft??

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## SecularNationalist

Mommy Ki Kasam Dobara Ni Ayen Gay

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## Zarvan




----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Indian fake psuedo intellectual marijuana philosopher scientists be like:

They crashed due to technical faults caused by huge combustion fireball caused by impact through a projectile travelling at super sonic speeds launched from an air entity several miles away.

Sidhi tarah bhonko na PAF fuked u in all ur holes.


SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Indians are such big idiots that they are saying that these 2-3 aircrafts crashed,how could 2-3 aircrafts crash simultaneously ?


----------



## BATMAN

The wheel of time said:


> That link is not opening. Besides our pilot must have directive to not to cross LOC and pakistanis are claiming that they were baited. How can it be so. If they went to attack, they would surely wont take old MIG 21s for sure.


What's new you got? That slow moving truck you call SU-30?


----------



## SMC

So let me get this straight. According to Indians:

1) An event for which there is documented proof didn't happen.
2) An event for which there is no supporting proof actually happened.

Am I getting this right?


----------



## SMC

So let me get this straight. According to Indians:

1) An event for which there is documented proof didn't happen.
2) An event for which there is no supporting proof actually happened.

Am I getting this right?

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## Areesh

ThinkLogically said:


> We are not like them to disown our own soldiers, it has never happened in our history. Don't fall for their fakes.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100678432776585216


----------



## Rusty

SecularNationalist said:


> Now see how embarrassing this whole situation is for indians and india.Things are actually supposed to be this way when you elect a man like modi who is a known hindu extremist and mass murderer.Yesterday indian lies are exposed and today during day light the whole world have seen the wreckage of their two fighter jets ,one dead body of a pilot and three arrested pilots in pakistan.On top of that now they are going to beg us for the release of their pilots.I have no sympathies for those indians who voted for modi but i feel pity for sane,responsible and educated indians who are not involved in this mess but facing embarrassment.
> A lesson for indian government is not to escalate further or else more embarrassments will come for you.
> Pakistan Zindabad



I have actually read this online a few times from Indians. An entire nation wil many many sane and respectable people trapped in the madhouse with Hindutva Nationalists. 

Feel really bad for them.

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## maverick1977

Top one is su30 and bottom mig 21

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## rizhussain44

maverick1977 said:


> Can someone confirm from the wreckage which aircraft is it? Is it a wing or a vertical stablizer ?


I think on the left it’s the vertical stablizer and on the right it’s the wing with the insignia on it. The vertical stabilizer on the left does not match with that of the MKI pic you have posted to compare with.


----------



## ziaulislam

monitor said:


> Pride of Pakistan In middle sqn ldr Hassan who targeted Indian aircraft :


Again dont spread fake news or put people life in risk

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632

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## LeGenD

KRAIT said:


> US told Pak can't use American weapons anymore.


Oh please... 

Are you being paid to troll in this forum?

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## khansaheeb

Hayreddin said:


> supposedly 3rd iaf jet also shoot down in iok .
> 1 mirage 2000
> 1 su30 mki
> 1 mig 21
> 
> By jf 17 thunder fighter


Lol, Should be called JF17 lightning and thunder


----------



## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

@Areesh wing commander Abhi want to give you and Pakistani military his sisters mobile number lol. 

Complete embarrassement for Indians

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## Rashid Mahmood

Thunders proved their worth.
Bravo.

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## Moonlight



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## Zee-shaun

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Guys according to 3 strong sources 1 SU-30 MKI and MIG was SHot down by JF-17 Thunder,Big achievement as Thunder has now become a battle proven aircraft !



Abhinand is indeed a MKI pilot. This is an old video.

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## litman

Salza said:


> Wow devastating reply by PAF
> 
> where the f**k is @MastanKhan ......he owe an apology to PAF big time :d


he is probably saddened by the PAF victory. we all should thank Allah almighty and be ready to teach them more lessons.

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## pakdefender

Mods give OP a positive rating


----------



## Rusty

Feed him the most delivous Pakistani food. 
He will never want to leave

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100676465635414016


----------



## ziaulislam

Areesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100678432776585216


Cant believe how Newscasters on indiatoday are freaking out..

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## Mirzah

Areesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100678432776585216


Huge embarrassment for modi

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## Areesh

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> @Areesh wing commander Abhi want to give you and Pakistani military his sisters mobile number lol.
> 
> Complete embarrassement for Indians



I have better option here bro. 

But still. Give it to me Abhi

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## maximuswarrior

monitor said:


> Pride of Pakistan In middle sqn ldr Hassan who targeted Indian aircraft :



MashAllah! Nazar na lage!

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## HRK

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667103835648000
> 
> @Hodor @HRK Avenger 1 is the call sign of SAAB AEWC ? It was up in the air in 12-1 am today it seems


don't know


----------



## Maarkhoor

fitpOsitive said:


> Naak toot gai bechary ki.


Cut gyi  @Levina


----------



## Areesh

Mirzah said:


> Huge embarrassment for modi



That is the goal

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## Rafi

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> @Areesh wing commander Abhi want to give you and Pakistani military his sisters mobile number lol.
> 
> Complete embarrassement for Indians


----------



## newb3e

Daghalodi said:


> Where is Tejas the real supa powa 5th gen aircraft??


getting leapord urine polish invsible hojanay do bas aik bar!!

yabba dabba doo

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## Areesh

ziaulislam said:


> Cant believe how Newscasters on indiatoday are freaking out..



No doubt they are freaking out


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100674670167175168

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## BATMAN

maverick1977 said:


> Yes I have confirmed that too... su30 was shot down...


Americans warned Indians not to use SU30 in any real war scenario. I guess this was the first and last SU30 we will ever see from India flying, close to PK borders.

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## Skies

Alhamdulliah, Pakistan Zindabad.

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## valkyr_96

Zee-shaun said:


> Abhinand is indeed a MKI pilot. This is an old video.


 Amazing find please front this of pdf twitter facebook more information on the internet than from the person itself

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## I S I

Daghalodi said:


> Where is Tejas the real supa powa 5th gen aircraft??


Coming on TATA truck. Open boarder gate.

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## aziqbal

JF17 got the jump ok the FLANKER !!!

Wow wow wow

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## BATMAN

Daghalodi said:


> Where is Tejas the real supa powa 5th gen aircraft??



Trawler which was pulling Teja is punctured for a while.
Indians are waiting for American experts to advise on how to mend puncture.

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## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> JFT


mubarAk ho sir

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## maximuswarrior

timmy_area51 said:


> this is the damage from an iranian Ballistic missile dude



LOL Iran coming to the rescue of brother India LOL

I want to hear from Modi sarkaar!!! How many votes did Modi win today?

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## Jf Thunder

praise the Lord


----------



## valkyr_96

valkyr_96 said:


> Amazing find please front this of pdf twitter facebook more information on the internet than from the person itself


 Can anyone ask the mods to front this


----------



## Moonlight

Don’t worry Indians, we respect our guests and mr AbhiNadan would get a nice treatment. 



Ps: no wonder why he tried to mess with PAF because he is “Abhi Nadan”

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## YeBeWarned

Where are those Indians who use to say that Chinese fighters have no credibility ?

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## Maxpane

Mentee said:


> @Maxpane @The Sandman @Great Janjua here you go guys. Two captured, One freak is being searched for.


bhai am in peace now.

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## Whirling_dervesh

Give the guy some water yaar....he wants to know if it is Pakistan army or not? 

Who else could it be? Lol

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## Rafi

The Thunder has taken its first kills.

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## Cookie Monster

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Guys according to 3 strong sources 1 SU-30 MKI and MIG was SHot down by JF-17 Thunder,Big achievement as Thunder has now become a battle proven aircraft !


Same JF17 shot down both aircrafts? Or multiple JF17s engaged and shot down these two aircrafts?


----------



## Zhukov

darksider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100681718661566465


Why are you sharing photos of our active servicemen on Internet like this? Delete your Post ASAP.

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## Maxpane

Mentee said:


> @Maxpane @The Sandman @Great Janjua here you go guys. Two captured, One freak is being searched for.


bhai am in peace now.


----------



## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100684520632864768

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## ziaulislam

Areesh said:


> No doubt they are freaking out
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100674670167175168


And this guy is bigshot..how irresponsible is india media

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## Maarkhoor

JF-17 proved BABA YAGA for IAF......not a boggy man but a killer of BOGGY men 

New nick for JF-17 "*Baba Yaga*".

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## PDF

Hodor said:


> According to my info Avenger 1 was a fighter and was flying at low altitude.It was airborne 2 hours ago as well


Its been active for quite a time.


----------



## Mentee

aziqbal said:


> Now Someone tell me
> 
> WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN
> 
> WHICH AIRCRAFT SHOT THEN DOWN


One su and one I think jaguar?

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## Reichsmarschall

@KRAIT hello dear?

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## aziqbal

Bloody hell man this is HUGE 

Everyone say all Praise is with Allah swt

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Cookie Monster said:


> Same JF17 shot down both aircrafts? Or multiple JF17s engaged and shot down these two aircrafts?


more than 1 I think as we were ready this time !


----------



## Amaa'n

M.Musa said:


> Its been active for quite a time.


Awac escorted the pow to base in pindi....two helis and an awac

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## aziqbal

Must have been PL-10

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100685224978116609

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## valkyr_96

More here @ 0:31


----------



## Goenitz

Thank you Allah.... you are the best planner... also please lets us be grateful even in distress and in misery not just when you show us mercy

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## Avicenna

Cookie Monster said:


> Same JF17 shot down both aircrafts? Or multiple JF17s engaged and shot down these two aircrafts?



Likely 2 different Thunders. Just a guess.


----------



## maverick1977

Cookie Monster said:


> Same JF17 shot down both aircrafts? Or multiple JF17s engaged and shot down these two aircrafts?




There was a cap of multiple Jf17 ... two pilots shot down different aircrafts 

Nauman ali khan shoe down su30 and Hassan shot down mig 21 :.. not sharing their ranks but both jf 17 pilots

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## Mirzah

3:15 PM IST half an hour from now, Indian government briefing coming up, lets see if they confirm captured pilot

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## Peaceful Civilian

The wheel of time said:


> That link is not opening. Besides our pilot must have directive to not to cross LOC and pakistanis are claiming that they were baited. How can it be so. If they went to attack, they would surely wont take old MIG 21s for sure.


This is upgraded version of mig21.


----------



## SecretMission

Image is attached, but seems like he was flying this time in mig 21 as commander.

He has been part of su 30 squadron and people saying about mustache and if he is the indian pilot can see the proof .


----------



## YeBeWarned

I Apologise for questioning PAF, they make us proud . Never in my life I was happy to be proven wrong . I wanted Pakistan to respond and this is it .

Pakistan Zindabad , Pakistan Army Zindabad , Pakistan Air force Zindabad

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## Arsalan 345

where is su-30 wreckage?i think we have mig-21 wreckage on our side.


----------



## Reichsmarschall

newb3e said:


> you talking like dihati suraj


Chill yar 
I had a panic attack when heard fake news of f 16 shot down 
Glad it was fake

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## casual

Hayreddin said:


> supposedly 3rd iaf jet also shoot down in iok .
> 1 mirage 2000
> 1 su30 mki
> 1 mig 21
> 
> By jf 17 thunder fighter


Why would IAF send 3 different type of fighters in one sortie? That's just crazy. Also congrats on first air to air kills for jf17

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## Bratva



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## Windjammer

The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682867124760577

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## Arsalan 345

but we have wreckage of mig-21.


----------



## PDF

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682867124760577

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100685531149729792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100685531149729792

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## monitor

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100685224978116609


but wiki said other* No. 51 Squadron (Sword Arms)* is a fighter squadron and is equipped with MiG-21Bison and based at Srinagar Air Force Station.[1]

✔@ShivAroor


BREAKING: Confirmed. Pakistan has in its captivity Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, a MiG-21 Bison pilot. Statement from the Indian government shortly.


1,079
3:03 PM - Feb 27, 2019


----------



## bananarepublic

isnt No.9 Squad F-16s 


Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


----------



## newb3e

Hodor said:


> According to my info Avenger 1 was a fighter and was flying at low altitude.It was airborne 2 hours ago as well


no hulk is green and fighting with PA and PAF!


----------



## Ultimate Weapon

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


F16? Does these kills achieved by F16s.


----------



## IFB

What was IAF thinking fielding a plane that belongs in a museum in a more or less war like situation ? why did not they field the super duper sukoi and shit on the front line ?


----------



## Skyliner

JF 17 
SADDA PUTTAR APNA PAIRON PAR KHARHA HO GAYA 
Mubarkan to everyone n PAF You made us proud

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## Wow

A jf 17 shot down su 30 mki this is huge


----------



## TheNoob

Arsalan 345 said:


> but we have wreckage of mig-21.



He was flying Mig21 as wing commander.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Shot-Caller said:


> What option do they have? They have been immensely embarrassed internationally. They claimed surgical strike. No proof given. They claimed killing 300 people by airstrike. No proof given. Pakistan claimed capturing your pilots alive and destroying your jets. Proofs everywhere. Pilots shown to the world. What else you think they will say?







All of the above + india is more than 7x bigger than us and has the full backing of the West and Russia..............yet despite those impossible odds we are humiliating them on the world stage...........................not even the americans or Russians could successfully fight a foe against such impossible odds...........

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## razgriz19

monitor said:


> but wiki said other* No. 51 Squadron (Sword Arms)* is a fighter squadron and is equipped with MiG-21Bison and based at Srinagar Air Force Station.[1]


They probably rotate pilots just like PAF does. Besides last i heard Mig-21s were being flown by experienced pilots as the new young pilots were crashing them.

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## Kharral

Big Boys have moved up the border. 
We are gonna try deliver some food to Jawans after our waleema ceremony in sha ALLAH.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100687002167578624


----------



## Cookie Monster

I S I said:


> Nope. That was a 12 plane formation. It was a golden chance missed by PAF air defenders.


It most likely wasn't...just another tall claim of Indian media. Since when does a 12 plane formation of Mirage 2000 in A2G role make sense? Supposedly each plane carrying 2 1000Kg LGB...it's just plain idiotic and suicidal to do such a thing.

- 12 plane formation will have a huge radar signature
- If 12 planes in A2G role were needed then there must be multiple targets they wanted to hit...so why would they all go in together? Are they all trying to bomb the same target? Shouldn't it be more like 3 formations of 4 jets each heading in different directions to hit their respective targets.
- why send in all 12 jets in A2G role together in one giant formation without air superiority fighters to cover them? All it would take is 2 to 4 F16s or JF17s to make short work of these 12 Mirages in A2G role.
- If 12 Mirages entered each with 2 1000Kg LGBs that's 24000 Kg worth of bombs...soo where are the 24 explosions/craters?

Most likely that formation of 12 Mirages in A2G role never happened and it's just another tall claim of their clueless media.

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## monitor

razgriz19 said:


> They probably rotate pilots just like PAF does


Mybe but india confirm this 

✔@ShivAroor


BREAKING: Confirmed. Pakistan has in its captivity Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, a MiG-21 Bison pilot. Statement from the Indian government shortly.


1,079
3:03 PM - Feb 27, 2019

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reichsmarschall

M.Musa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682867124760577


@KRAIT ab bhonk isse b deny kr

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## Windjammer

The capture of three IAF pilots thus falls into place, two from SU-30 and one of MiG-21.
PAF makes history with first SU-30 kill as well.

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## aziqbal

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> The guy in the middle shot one of the Indian jets,
> Name Squadron Leader Hassan



May Allah be pleased with him

How handsome is this young lion

Hell we have some good pilots only a war can prove it


----------



## Clutch

Champion_Usmani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100685531149729792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100685531149729792



*Indian mad #fakenews media will start showing this video as ... Indian helicopter kidnapping "terrorist" from Pakistan... In surgical kidnap. *


----------



## I S I

Please admit F16 shot down if there's any.. Don't be like Indians.

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

why are we revealing squad number and other pertinent info?

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## BATMAN

aziqbal said:


> Must have been PL-10


More likely PL-9


----------



## Exxxe

These reports talk about ground military movements and engagements at the border 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100513442346291201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100524332873404416
Is it true is pakistan and India at war right now ??

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## fitpOsitive

Wow said:


> A jf 17 shot down su 30 mki this is huge


Now after waziristan, this machine is war proven. Weldone guys.


----------



## z9-ec

So it is confirmed first kills for JF-17 Thunder - 1 SU-30 MKI and 1 Mig-21.


PAKISTAN ZINDABAD!

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## Tps43

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


But 9 sqn have F 16’s?

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## Frozr

I S I said:


> Please admit F16 shot down if there's any.. Don't be like Indians.



No F-16 or any other PAF fighter jet shot down. DG ISPR has confirmed this plus the Indian claims are baseless and they have presented no evidence (pictures/videos).

Pakistan Zindabad!

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## Cookie Monster

maverick1977 said:


> There was a cap of multiple Jf17 ... two pilots shot down different aircrafts
> 
> Nauman ali khan shoe down su30 and Hassan shot down mig 21 :.. not sharing their ranks but both jf 17 pilots


I can't wait for ISPR to release footage of this. JF17 shooting down Mig21 is no big deal IMO...but shooting down Su30 MKI(an air superiority fighter) that's huge. So much for Indian claims of Su30 MKI being invincible and Chinese stuff(JF17 and PL10 or PL9 or whatever A2A missile it was) being junk.

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## RPK

I S I said:


> Please admit F16 shot down if there's any..


One F16 down on friendly fire


----------



## maverick1977

What is indian media saying ? Devol and rest of kanjars? When are they reactivating their Ttp


----------



## I S I

Cookie Monster said:


> It most likely wasn't...just another tall claim of Indian media. Since when does a 12 plane formation of Mirage 2000 in A2G role make sense? Supposedly each plane carrying 2 1000Kg LGB...it's just plain idiotic and suicidal to do such a thing.
> 
> - 12 plane formation will have a huge radar signature
> - If 12 planes in A2G role were needed then there must be multiple targets they wanted to hit...so why would they all go in together? Are they all trying to bomb the same target? Shouldn't it be more like 3 formations of 4 jets each heading in different directions to hit their respective targets.
> - why send in all 12 jets in A2G role together in one giant formation without air superiority fighters to cover them? All it would take is 2 to 4 F16s or JF17s to make short work of these 12 Mirages in A2G role.
> - If 12 Mirages entered each with 2 1000Kg LGBs that's 24000 Kg worth of bombs...soo where are the 24 explosions/craters?
> 
> Most likely that formation of 12 Mirages in A2G role never happened and it's just another tall claim of their clueless media.


Makes sense. Thanks for your analysis.


----------



## mohd497

JF 17 shot down SU 30!!!! Huge selling point for JF 17.


----------



## Wrath

Signalian said:


> which aircrafts did PAF use?


Miraj and JF-17 thunder

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## Reichsmarschall

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


Thunder ⚡ from sq 9?


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## ice_man

both planes were MIG 21s


----------



## I S I

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire


That might make sense.

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## sohail.ishaque

undercover JIX said:


> DGISPR saif no F16 were used in any of these ops, so there no question of shooting down F16.


That implies JF17 thunder downed Indian jets ???? if it is then it is a big achievement by this so quoted "toy jet" by the indians.


----------



## Kakaspai

OMG.So Jf17 is actually a su30 killer.[emoji106]

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## ice_man

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire



no F16s used none. 

admit your defeat and de escalate or we will next time capture modi himself

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## Taimoor Khan

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.



Mate. My understanding it it was JFs which raised havoc on IAF. (While speaking to some contacts)

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## OldTwilight

If true, then we should consider ourselves lucky that Russia refused to sell su-30 to us .

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## Windjammer



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## SABRE

WaLeEdK2 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664454335860736



While amazing news this video reminds of something that should be our moral & ethics code (& maybe that protocol was followed before or after this video). When Ibne Muljam was brought before mortally wounded beloved Amir-ul-Momineen Maula Saydna Hazrat Ali (Rz) his first order was to give Ibne Muljam the refreshment made for himself. Ibne Muljam was surrounded by several people & was afraid of his awaiting but known fate. These Ibne Muljams should be treated the same way. This is our code of conduct in war & peace.

*This aside. Abhi ki mummy se contact howa?*

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## RealNapster

Starlord said:


> I Apologise for questioning PAF, they make us proud . Never in my life I was happy to be proven wrong . I wanted Pakistan to respond and this is it .
> 
> Pakistan Zindabad , Pakistan Army Zindabad , Pakistan Air force Zindabad



@MastanKhan .. Your turn Sir


----------



## Frozr

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire



F-16s were not used for this encounter. Please share any evidence of such claims

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## ARMalik

Starlord said:


> I Apologise for questioning PAF, they make us proud . Never in my life I was happy to be proven wrong . I wanted Pakistan to respond and this is it .
> 
> Pakistan Zindabad , Pakistan Army Zindabad , Pakistan Air force Zindabad



Same here - I had criticized PAF for not shooting down IAF jets when they crossed LoC. Well we all got a big surprise indeed!! I am very happy to be proven wrong!

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## aziqbal

OldTwilight said:


> If true, then we should consider ourselves lucky that Russia refused to sell su-30 to us .



Brother the result would be the same on any aircraft

Our boys are simply the best

It’s not the Aircraft

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## Imran Khan

i will be surprise if thunders killed an SU-30



RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire


any single drop of blood of f-16 ? they not even used f-16 yet

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## fitpOsitive

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Guys according to 3 strong sources 1 SU-30 MKI and MIG was SHot down by JF-17 Thunder,Big achievement as Thunder has now become a battle proven aircraft !


What are those sources?


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

I S I said:


> That might make sense.


first, they were showing a video supposedly being shot down by them and now its friendly fire? That might actually make sense if you are sensible.

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## Windjammer

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire


Actually that was another Indian aircraft which crashed in IOK, and two bodies recovered.

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## M.AsfandYar

Exxxe said:


> These reports talk about ground military movements and engagements at the border
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100513442346291201
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100524332873404416
> Is it true is pakistan and India at war right now ??


It has escalated after today engagement. But i seriously pray it doesn't go to that. Aggressive Patrolling is going on though


----------



## Maxpane

interesting


----------



## Haroon Baloch

Boys played welll.. Its hugeee..

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## The Sandman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667769228615680


Exxxe said:


> Is it true is pakistan and India at war right now ??

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## RPK

Imran Khan said:


> any single drop of blood of f-16 ? they not even used f-16 yet


It down by Friendly fire


----------



## Darth Vader

I love the title
Empire ( Pakistan ) strikes back
For all star wars fan you evil lol

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## Sneaker

Arsalan 345 said:


> where is su-30 wreckage?i think we have mig-21 wreckage on our side.


You are asking proof for a propaganda feel good post?


----------



## Nefarious

Any pics of SU 30 burning?


----------



## YeBeWarned

If there is any downed F-16 it will come out cause every unit has a unique serial number . So relax Indians please focus on how to cover those two downed jets and three captured pilots .

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## Devil Soul

We never wanted to escalate, but it seems the other side dont understand the language of peace...

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## IFB

Exxxe said:


> Is it true is pakistan and India at war right now ??



Even we in india dont know if we are at war ....indian media only saying india shot down one F16...and they are not showing mig 21 pilot that was captured....i learned it from this forum only...media silent...pakistan says no F16 shot down...we have to wait and see.

Modi's *** is on the line in this...if he mishandles it...he will be shunned not only by people of india but his own party...IAF pilot capture still not hit the streets...then you will see the shit storm mister modi faces....wait and see.

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## Rusty

hussain0216 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100670023218155520
> Roast the hindu


No!
He will be given the dignity and respect that is owed to him!

we are not Hindu terrorirsts, we don't harm defenceless people.


----------



## Amigator

@MastanKhan Sir, waiting for your response Sir! When will you take off from your work?

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## Talwar e Pakistan

KRAIT said:


> IAF pilots are not allowed to keep mustaches.

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## bananarepublic

Darth Vader said:


> I love the title
> Empire ( Pakistan ) strikes back
> For are star wars fan you evil lol



haha
sequal comming soon


----------



## maximuswarrior

RPK said:


> It down by Friendly fire



Hehe ro saale.

This is what you call a surgical strike. Not the fake one you carried out LOL

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## HydNizam

Huge mistake by india . Seriously sending mig 21 ?? . There is a growing dissent among armed forces here against Modi. This is the reason for FM Sushma Swaraj statement that we don’t want war.

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## Crystal-Clear

Lahu mu lag gaya ..... :p

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## HRK

Sugarcane said:


> What third pilot was doing in jet?


must be the second jet was a dual seat


----------



## RPK

Windjammer said:


> Actually that was another Indian aircraft which crashed in IOK, and two bodies recovered.


That is MI-17 V5 crashed due to technical fault near srinagar airport too far way from loc
4 killed 2 pilots and two crew

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## Areesh

monitor said:


> Pride of Pakistan In middle sqn ldr Hassan who targeted Indian aircraft :



Heroes


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Frozr said:


> F-16s were not used for this encounter. Please share any evidence of such claims


first, they were showing a video supposedly being shot down by them and now its friendly fire? 
Just ignore these lying cnuts . What credibility do they have when they say they shot it down and showed the world an alleged video and now ist from friendly fire?

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## ProudPak

Anything on the other two pilots?


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## maximuswarrior

z9-ec said:


> So it is confirmed first kills for JF-17 Thunder - 1 SU-30 MKI and 1 Mig-21.
> 
> 
> PAKISTAN ZINDABAD!



Confirmed and we are going to celebrate this occasion for years to come.

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## Imran Khan

RPK said:


> It down by Friendly fire


in real world NO f-16 was took off today

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## I S I

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> first, they were showing a video supposedly being shot down by them and now its friendly fire? That might actually make sense if you are sensible.


Smog is in Air still. Need clarity... Will wait for credible info.

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## Rusty

Talwar e Pakistan said:


>


Best reply to Indian delustions yet!!!!


----------



## ziaulislam

IFB said:


> Even we in india dont know if we are at war ....indian media only saying india shot down one F16...and they are not showing mig 21 pilot that was captured....i learned it from this forum only...media silent...pakistan says no F16 shot down...we have to wait and see.


Apparently f16 was not used which would make sense f16 is prime strike fighter and thunders are CAP fighters
It could be f7-mig21 clash



HRK said:


> must be the second jet was a dual seat


Mig29 or mig21..

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## Baghial

Bratva said:


>


An early holly festival this year

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## PakShaheen79

Windy. now you must provide some kind of evidence to back this. I haven't seen any SU-30 wreckage pic. PLus DG ISPR made it clear that no F-16 was scrambled for entire ops.


----------



## SecularNationalist

cerberus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100644064452472832





KRAIT said:


> It was a helicopter that crashed.
> 
> 
> I got this news earlier from my friend.


Kindly show us the plane wreckage or any dead or alive arrested pilot like we are showing right now.Prove you are saying truth like we proved today


----------



## I S I

Nefarious said:


> Any pics of SU 30 burning?


Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

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## SecretMission

Another Picture

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

I S I said:


> Smog is in Air still. Need clarity... Will wait for credible info.


indian troll are not credible so till then dont agree to their conflicting BS.
Jsut wait as our press, unlike yindoo press will reveal the truth .

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## Musafir117

IFB said:


> Even we in india dont know if we are at war ....indian media only saying india shot down one F16...and they are not showing mig 21 pilot that was captured....i learned it from this forum only...media silent...pakistan says no F16 shot down...we have to wait and see.


Indian are good at “ invisible “ thingy they might shoot down an invisible one
Well we show what we got! And they?

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## ziaulislam

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


Lol su 30



Ultimate Weapon said:


> F16? Does these kills achieved by F16s.


Either f7 or jf17 as ISPR Clearly said no f16


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## maximuswarrior

Huge. Absolutely huge. We got their trophy. This is beyond imagination. Pak armed forces and PAF didn't give us a surprise. They gave us a bloody gift to remember for ages!!!

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## LeGenD

aziqbal said:


> May Allah be pleased with him
> 
> How handsome is this young lion
> 
> Hell we have some good pilots only a war can prove it


Pakistani armed forces including PAF are battle-hardened due to War On Terror since 2001 - level of preparation is really good on the whole. Indians will be in shock for a while.

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## OldTwilight

aziqbal said:


> Brother the result would be the same on any aircraft
> Our boys are simply the best
> It’s not the Aircraft



IMO 60-70% of outcome of air to air battles decide by which aircraft is more superior and has superior weapons .... in Iran-Iraq war , while our F-14 pilots were toasting Iraqis aircrafts , our f-4 and f-5 barely could keep with Iraqis and we lost many aircrafts ...
there was (and is ) some gap between F-14 and F-4 , F-5 pilots but that wasn't huge back then .... 
simply , F-14 was superior aircraft and could hunt Iraqis aircraft from more than 100 km away with phoenix missiles ....

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## Sneaker

I S I said:


> Please admit F16 shot down if there's any.. Don't be like Indians.


not in a million year.. they will not admit it since India doesn't have any proof (happened that side of LOC). the second pilot is f16 mistaken for IAF, I believe.

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## IFB

HRK said:


> must be the second jet was a dual seat



They have been saying two jet all along...and now with picture of IAF pilot ...yes two jets.

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## Dazzler

sohail.ishaque said:


> That implies JF17 thunder downed Indian jets ???? if it is then it is a big achievement by this so quoted "toy jet" by the indians.



Yes, using the SD-10As.

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## Falgrine

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> The guy in the middle shot one of the Indian jets,
> Name Squadron Leader Hassan


Please do not share.

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## Super Falcon

Which air raft he was flying by the way any info


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## SecretMission

Arsalan 345 said:


> but we have wreckage of mig-21.


He was flying Mig 21 Bison

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## HRK

ziaulislam said:


> Apparently f16 was not used which would make sense f16 is prime strike fighter and thunders are CAP fighters
> It could be f7-mig21 clash
> 
> 
> Mig29 or mig21..


one MiG-21 is confirmed
Conflicting report about the second jet some are claiming it was Su-30 while other are claiming MiG-29

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## Devil Soul

*Captured Pilot is the son of Rtd. Air Marshal *

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Maverick_D said:


> Do not freaking share


All of over social media!


----------



## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100691635908825091Footage of Indian Air Force Wing Commander Abhi Nandan documented back in 2016

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## ziaulislam

Imran Khan said:


> i will be surprise if thunders killed an SU-30
> 
> 
> any single drop of blood of f-16 ? they not even used f-16 yet


Why in CAP mission its tactics...jf17 carries deadly sd10

3 jets
1 mi 17 down

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## Maarkhoor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100651365863288833

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## I S I

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> indian troll are not credible so till then dont agree to their conflicting BS.
> Jsut wait as our press, unlike yindoo press will reveal the truth .


I will wait...

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## KRAIT

He was flying Mig 21 Bison.


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## Dazzler

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.



No f-16s were used.

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## Daghalodi

Indian trolls who claims indian pilots are not suppose to have moustaches are actually the Joke of century!!







This is Indian Air Chief and i guess he doesnt have a moustache but hair from his nostrils have grown so big they look like moustaches

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## Maarkhoor

Jab laghi phatnay parsaad lagay batnay..... @KRAIT

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## maximuswarrior

KRAIT said:


> He was flying Mig 21 Bison.



Oy tu kaghan se aa gaya he?


----------



## ziaulislam

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100691635908825091Footage of Indian Air Force Wing Commander Abhi Nandan documented back in 2016


But they mustache not allowed


----------



## OldTwilight

Some source deny fall of any Indian fighter jets ...


----------



## Ghessan

those having sources, please if can get details fighter planes from which squadron took part and the pilots?


----------



## Ali Tariq

What is a "friendly fire'?


----------



## RPK

Only Mig 21 down is confirmed more likely due to attack from ground rather than air engagement


----------



## Rafael

KRAIT said:


> He was flying Mig 21 Bison.


 
So they do keep Mostaches?

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## Foxtrot Delta

I S I said:


> Please admit F16 shot down if there's any.. Don't be like Indians.



F-16s didn't take part in that region. Most likely JF-17 or F-7PG took out both aircraft.

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## Zarvan




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## KRAIT

Rafael said:


> So they do keep Mostaches?


This is official norm. Its a sudden development.


----------



## maximuswarrior

I am so happy!!! We used our homegrown fighters to down their junk fighters LOL

This is China Pak pride. The JF-17 Thunder which roared in the skies and took care of business!!!

Remember those who were taunting PAF and their capabilities? *They got a jaw breaking reply today. *When you fvck with us you will be turned to ashes.

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## dilpakistani

Mig-29 and Mig 21 on Cap sortie are down.... two pilots were on mig 29 and 1 pilot was in Mig-21 all three survived and arrested


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

ice_man said:


> both planes were MIG 21s



If both were mig 21s then there cant be 3 pilots ..i think one was mirage 2000 .


----------



## Amaa'n

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


With due respect chief, the info stands incorrect....

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## uzbi aka viper

he is a son of retd.air marshall...now indian media and twitter is accepting that is abhinandu 

abhayyyyoooo nandu ...hogya tu nangu.

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## Imran Khan

RPK said:


> Only Mig 21 down is confirmed more likely due to attack from ground rather than air engagement


you are kuty ki dum beta you will not admit anything mi-17 hawa se gir gya mig-21 ko zameen se pather mar ker giraya

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## Hayreddin

casual said:


> Why would IAF send 3 different type of fighters in one sortie? That's just crazy. Also congrats on first air to air kills for jf17



As ispr states there locked on 6 air targets but due to danger of colleteral damage public on ground they forgive them and kick them out


----------



## NA71

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire


AT LEAST SOME SHAME AND STAY QUIET. HAD HOTI HY BEYSHARMI KI


----------



## Jackdaws

T-Faz said:


> He should be treated for his injuries, and looked after well.
> 
> If I were incharge, I would set an example by giving the Indian pilot the necessary help and even start negotiating his return. This will help de-escalate the situation and will be a major PR victory.


He is protected under Geneva Conventions. Your call.



JohnWick said:


> He ccompleted his training
> Excellent work
> 
> I think they are were flying
> Migs 29 or mirage 2000
> Anyone can confirm it...


Reports are he was in a MiG.



Icewolf said:


> Modi got humiliated. He thought he could attack Pak and would get free easy votes and Pak wouldn't attack back at all. Fast forward to today.
> 
> Shame on Modi for war mongering to just votes.


Umm. He was caught on Pak soil, not Indian soil.


----------



## PDF

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100684776313417729Kabhi aao na Pakistan, Khushbu laga ke!

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## Devil Soul




----------



## Neptune_

Daghalodi said:


> Indian trolls who claims indian pilots are not suppose to have moustaches are actually the Joke of century!!
> 
> View attachment 542366
> 
> 
> This is Indian Air Chief and i guess he doesnt have a moustache but hair from his nostrils have grown so big they look like moustaches



Indian pilots aren't supposed to have facial hairs except shikhs. But mustache is acceptable I suppose.


----------



## khansaheeb

Path-Finder said:


>



6 Targets attacked in IOK by PAF in retaliation to Indian aggression
We had no option but to respond
We chose targets that were not military or which would result in human casualties
We dropped bombs in areas short of the targets to show we have the will and capacity but do not wish to be irresponsible
We showed that we can do it but for the sake of peace decided not to.
It wasn't really a retaliation but show of strength that we are capable.
We do not want to escalate , we do not want to go in the direction of war.
The PM and the people of Pakistan have indicated we do not want war and we do not wish for war.
Once we had hit the targets then two Indian war planes crossed in to Pakistan territory and were shot down by PAF
One wreckage fell on their side and one wreckage fell on our side.
We have news of another Indian aircraft downing but it was not due to PAF action.
Two pilots arrested we are giving them due protocol
One of the pilots was injured and has been transferred to CMS and will be cared for.
The other is in the custody of PA.
Indian media has reported downing of PAF F16 but no F16s have been used.
We have no news of any aircraft being downed by the Indians.
People of Pakistan, the Government of Pakistan, the armed forces of Pakistan have always conveyed a message of peace to India and the route to peace goes through dialogue.
Both countries have the ability and capacity (to wage war) but war is a failure of policy which India needs to understand.
As the PM said War is easy to start but where it ends no one knows.
Having displayed our capability and will and resolve we still do not wish to escalate , we wish to follow a path to peace.
People in both countries and the region have a right to live and live in peace.
If you say you want your people to have education, good health, employment, then come and meet with us, talk to us, war is not the solution. No issue is resolved by war.
India should consider our offer calmly and consider where we wish to go.
The international community has a responsibility too.
The situation that exists between India and Pakistan, Pakistan does not wish to go towards war.
We have message of peace.
India should also come forward and see how the environment between India and Pakistan are a threat to peace and development not only between the two countries but to the region and beyond.
Our different response and the way we have behaved responsibly, Pakistani media has performed peace journalism, the action we have taken is in self defense.
We do not wish to indicate a victory.
No one wins in war and no one loses in war, only humanity loses.
I request that the Pakistani media maintains objective reporting and perform reporting to take us to peace.
Our reporting today has been responsible and talking of peace.
Our Message is for peace.

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## macnurv

Sneaker said:


> You are asking proof for a propaganda feel good post?


Rich coming from Indians, who live in world of fantasy.



OldTwilight said:


> Some source deny fall of any Indian fighter jets ...


Are these the same sources which claimed to come 60 miles inside and dropped 2000 pounds bombs. Another bollywood flick in the making.

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## pakdefender

Jackdaws said:


> He is protected under Geneva Conventions. Your call.



Expected , pehlay yakki karo phir Geneva Convention , don't worry we also know how to play


----------



## RPK

Imran Khan said:


> ou are kuty ki dum beta you will not admit anything mi-17 hawa se gir gya mig-21 ko zameen se pather mar ker giraya


I dont know what you written there I dont speculate. MI 17 crash is nothing to do with anything


----------



## I.R.A

Moonlight said:


> View attachment 542355
> View attachment 542356
> View attachment 542357



He looks like a Zakuta jinn ...... but smaller in height.

Height dekho iss kay masoom panay ki farmatay hain "Can I ask you something, Am I with Pakistani Army". Koi pochay nai dhakan tu Nigerians k hath char gya hy.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Imran Khan said:


> you are kuty ki dum beta you will not admit anything mi-17 hawa se gir gya mig-21 ko zameen se pather mar ker giraya


he is telling the truth. We only owe them one pilot. Bookmark this post for future reference.Aint gonna give more if asked for it later.

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## Super Falcon

Which type of jet used by indian and thunders used S 10 air to air combat


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK



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## RPK

nahmed71 said:


> AT LEAST SOME SHAME AND STAY QUIET. HAD HOTI HY BEYSHARMI KI


Why I need to be same. Cat and mouse game always will be there


----------



## IFB

now again ball is in modi's court...people still dont know about downed IAF jets and captured pilot...wait till the news breaks out...shits gonna hit the fan...modi is in a very tight spot now...if he fucks this up...indians will bury him in the coming election...nation is in safe hands he said few hours ago...now IAF pilot is in pakistan's hand...now we have to wait and see what modi's hand will do.

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682867124760577


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## NA71

Windjammer said:


> Pride of Pkistan, S/L Hassan who shot down the MiG-21
> 
> View attachment 542367


HASSAN BATCH SUGGESTS -f16


----------



## macnurv

Now imagine SU30 being shot down by JF17's, now its proven to the whole world. So called superiority fighter being shot down by a made in China fighter jet (Indian claim). Now suck on this.

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## NaqsheYaar

arbit said:


> We are here and are not going any where you fucking converts.


I hope you are somewhere on the front line when the time comes, am a Pathan, would love to see you.


----------



## Daghalodi

KRAIT said:


> This is official norm. Its a sudden development.










Neptune_ said:


> Indian pilots aren't supposed to have facial hairs except shikhs. But mustache is acceptable I suppose.



Please decide what are indian pilots allowed to have?? Mustaches or No Mustaches!! Facial hair or No Facial hair

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## The Accountant

Cookie Monster said:


> It most likely wasn't...just another tall claim of Indian media. Since when does a 12 plane formation of Mirage 2000 in A2G role make sense? Supposedly each plane carrying 2 1000Kg LGB...it's just plain idiotic and suicidal to do such a thing.
> 
> - 12 plane formation will have a huge radar signature
> - If 12 planes in A2G role were needed then there must be multiple targets they wanted to hit...so why would they all go in together? Are they all trying to bomb the same target? Shouldn't it be more like 3 formations of 4 jets each heading in different directions to hit their respective targets.
> - why send in all 12 jets in A2G role together in one giant formation without air superiority fighters to cover them? All it would take is 2 to 4 F16s or JF17s to make short work of these 12 Mirages in A2G role.
> - If 12 Mirages entered each with 2 1000Kg LGBs that's 24000 Kg worth of bombs...soo where are the 24 explosions/craters?
> 
> Most likely that formation of 12 Mirages in A2G role never happened and it's just another tall claim of their clueless media.


This is correct ... basically it was 3 attacks from three different areas in the formation of 4 each ... 1 with the payload and three for escort (unlike the usual attack formation of 1 pay load and 2 escorts)

2 attacks were repelled and for the third they managed to drop the payload out in the open ...

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## Shot-Caller

M.Musa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100684776313417729Kabhi aao na Pakistan, Khushbu laga ke!


Kitni dair se wait ker rahay hain? Us ki moochein nikal aai yeh log wait kiye ja rahay hain.

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## Sine Nomine

HRK said:


> one MiG-21 is confirmed
> Conflicting report about the second jet some are it was claiming Su-30 while other are claiming MiG-29


GoP wants India to tell.


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Be gentle and show respect to the captured pilots
As im sure pakistan is a responsible and civilized country.

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## monitor

Maverick_D said:


> Please do not share.


Alreadyshared 1300 times last i saw.


----------



## Windjammer

RPK said:


> Only Mig 21 down is confirmed more likely due to attack from ground rather than air engagement


Do you know the PAF also engaged six Indian ground targets, just to send a message, ANI even posted pictures of the craters.


----------



## Maxpane

junk shot down the the best

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## Arsalan 345

KRAIT said:


> Indian pilots aren't allowed to have mustaches.





dilpakistani said:


> Mig-29 and Mig 21 on Cap sortie are down.... two pilots were on mig 29 and 1 pilot was in Mig-21 all three survived and arrested



we have the wreckage of mig-21 but not mig-29.


----------



## Blueskiez 2001

So what is it?

One SU30?
One MIG21?

By a F7 and JF17?


----------



## Windjammer

balixd said:


> With due respect chief, the info stands incorrect....


I'm sharing what i have learned from various sources.


----------



## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100689034509053957

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## Cookie Monster

The Accountant said:


> This is correct ... basically it was 3 attacks from three different areas in the formation of 4 each ... 1 with the payload and three for escort (unlike the usual attack formation of 1 pay load and 2 escorts)
> 
> 2 attacks were repelled and for the third they managed to drop the payload out in the open ...


That makes more sense. Thanks for the update. Also I didn't come across this news anywhere that u just shared with me. U have some inside sources?


----------



## Imran Khan

__ https://www.facebook.com/









__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## SABRE

RPK said:


> It down by Friendly fire



F-16s C/D & MLU can't fire on friendly F-16s. But someone more apt on this can confirm this.


----------



## The Sandman

India accepts mig 21 shot down pilot mia


----------



## Riz

Imran Khan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Video Not available


----------



## RPK

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440this what happend today


----------



## Dazzler

Lol. lies lies, we will not take questions.

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## valkyr_96

KRAIT said:


> This is official norm. Its a sudden development.



What do you mean by sudden development? So suddenly his moustache grew out? please refer to the video of inside Su30mki he had a moustache previously too

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## PakShaheen79

Where is Video?


----------



## smali183



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## khansaheeb

macnurv said:


> Now imagine SU30 being shot down by JF17's, now its proven to the whole world. So called superiority fighter being shot down by a made in China fighter jet (Indian claim). Now suck on this.


Actually the planes that shot down the SU30 were made in Pakistan.


----------



## Amigator

Jao dob k mar jao India walo


----------



## RPK

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

it was dark..........................inspired by india.

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## KRAIT

MEA released statement. One PAF aircraft shot down. Indian Mig 21 Bison pilot is captured.


----------



## maximuswarrior

The party is over.

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## Ghessan

did you guys hear Indian press briefing just now? he gave few statements and said taking no questions aur yeh ja woh ja ...


----------



## PDF

Dazzler said:


> Yes, using the SD-10As.


Not (PL5 WVR missile)?


----------



## macnurv

khansaheeb said:


> Actually the planes that shot down the SU30 were made in Pakistan.


Yes, but I was merely stating Indian BS claims they usually make whenever it comes to Pakistan and its ability.

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## ZAC1

Bro its flanker series...no doubt on it


MUSTAKSHAF said:


> GoP wants India to tell.


----------



## Devil Soul

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100691670134386688

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## NA71

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440this what happend today


why did IAF sent MiGs for F-16s......is was a suicide


----------



## Areesh

Ghessan said:


> did you guys hear Indian press briefing just now? he gave few statements and said taking no questions aur yeh ja woh ja ...



They did the same yesterday too when announcing their botched attack at balakot


----------



## maximuswarrior

M.Musa said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100684776313417729Kabhi aao na Pakistan, Khushbu laga ke!



LOL He is yet to return...

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## Amigator

Dosra bhi man jaen ge ahista ahista


----------



## Mirzah

Indian government confirms mig 21 lost and pilot is missing in action 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695053998145536


----------



## Windjammer

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440this what happend today


Lol yea and somehow three IAF pilots are in Pakistan custody.

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## RPK

nahmed71 said:


> why did IAF sent MiGs for F-16s......is was a suicide


Its CAP operation nothing more


----------



## Jf Thunder

KRAIT said:


> MEA released statement. One PAF aircraft shot down. Indian Mig 21 Bison pilot is captured.


got any proof 
or is it all propaganda?

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## Ahmet Pasha

Poor randian getting sandwiched between two SSG strongmen.
Bichara delicate sa phool lagta hai in k samne.
Is ne to naak katwa di India ki


Hareeb said:


> View attachment 542331
> View attachment 542332
> View attachment 542334



He looks like the top of a dildo when young and like Mr. Potatohead when older. Bwahahahaha


Talwar e Pakistan said:


>


----------



## Areesh

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440



Admission coming finally


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671056472432642
> I agree we still have a colonel missing in Nepal and we should use these pilots to trade for him!!


Tag someone high up.


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

nahmed71 said:


> why did IAF sent MiGs for F-16s......is was a suicide



Indian lies, because f-16 were not used. May be mig wanted to score a kill on jf 17 thunder.

Two indian pilots captured will tell the tale later on. Perhaps indians will believe their own men.


----------



## khansaheeb

macnurv said:


> Yes, but I was merely stating Indian BS claims they usually make whenever it comes to Pakistan and its ability.


JF17 finally tested and proven in battle against a formidable enemy. Allah O'akbar.


----------



## Amigator

Kithe gae India Wale!


----------



## Hallian_Khan

Windjammer said:


> Do you know the PAF also engaged six Indian ground targets, just to send a message, ANI even posted pictures of the craters.


yes and very soon ispr will release video too of that operation


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah bro need to get this heard


Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> Tag someone high up.


----------



## RPK

M.Musa said:


> Not (PL5 WVR missile)?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Talwar e Pakistan said:


>


nah, that's not a man with a mustache but a indian mans testicle.


----------



## I S I

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440this what happend today


Humiliation indeed if true.


----------



## ziaulislam

Just 1 as per Indian source as they know we only have 1 wreckage 
Lets tune everything down and hope both sides settle here


----------



## Sine Nomine

Windjammer said:


> Lol yea and somehow three IAF pilots are in Pakistan custody.


They won't admit that Chenni Mall ambushed them

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## mzain

yes, Indian government confirms the news. ..... Pakistan Zindabad


----------



## Shot-Caller

Ghessan said:


> did you guys hear Indian press briefing just now? he gave few statements and said taking no questions aur yeh ja woh ja ...


He said Indian ground forces saw Pakistani jet falling. That's all they are relying now as far as their claims of shooting Pakistani jet are concerned. Now I'm thinking their ground forces saw Wing commander Abhinandan's jet falling and thought its a Pakistani jet. Makes sense All Pakistani jets are safe and they are the ones who suffered losses.

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## mastaan

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440this what happend today



MEA just confirmed that one MIG21 downed during a dog fight with PAF and pilot MIA (which he says Pakistan claims is in their custody) and they are ascertaining the facts. He said one PAF jet downed, which fell on pakistan side (did not mention which fighter jet) and said we lost a Mig 21 in this fight and Pilot MIA. No mention of F16 at all and I think we should keep it that way. F16 is only being mentioned by press speculators - so won't listen to any of that in this fog of war.

The Pilot, as is confirmed by Pakistan DGISPR is in their custody - He will be protected under UN conventions on PoW. It is good that it is published that he was captured alive. 

To Pakistan posters - Any confirmed news on the second pilot? or that is a press speculation?


----------



## arbit

Mirzah said:


> Indian government confirms mig 21 lost and pilot is missing in action



You don't get it. Things just escalated. Pakistan could negotiate the prisoner of war to suggest a truce or it might use it for propaganda following which the war will spread in all spectrums including naval blockade forcing shortage of fuel. Their 3 refineries will also be in cross hairs now.
I believe if full scale war breaks out, then p-o-k will be settled this year. This is of course one man's opinion.


----------



## Ghessan

Areesh said:


> They did the same yesterday too when announcing their botched attack at balakot



yes and the message they are giving to the world with such press briefings is loud and clear.

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## Jackdaws

Interceptor Mig21 which was chasing out a Pak jet was taken down by Pak air defences in Pak air space.


----------



## Amaa'n

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440this what happend today


Sending mig for f16.... u guys lost it


----------



## RPK

mastaan said:


> To Pakistan posters - Any confirmed news on the second pilot? or that is a press speculation?


I heard that too


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

I S I said:


> Smog is in Air still. Need clarity... Will wait for credible info.


indian news ticker: Mig 21 shot down PAF Plane. i,e F16. This was just now. what do you say now?

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## maximuswarrior

Ghessan said:


> yes and the message they are giving to the world with such press briefings is loud and clear.



Very loud and very very clear.


----------



## Dazzler

3 pilots, one KIA, to MIA later arrested, one brought to the media, the other at CMH

1 mig-21, 1 su-30, so i just heard..

well done Thunders, some performance!

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## SABRE

I don't know about Modi/BJP but HAL & Indian arms acquisition bureaucracy must be really happy, Nah! celebrating, the downing of MiG-21. HAL can now push for LCA, Nah! shove it down IAF's throat. While the procurement bureaucracy within the government & IAF will push for more Rafales or Western jets.

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## RPK

balixd said:


> Sending mig for f16.... u guys lost it


Problebly no need escalate


----------



## Mr.Cringeworth

So indians claiming that abhi isnt indian i found an old interview of his on youtube please enjoy and tag those indians who were denying this.




@Chhatrapati
@KRAIT @Viny @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Imran Khan @MastanKhan @Windjammer @jamahir
Is this enough evidence for you now please accept that he is indian and we guys owned you in this whole fiasco.

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## I S I

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> indian news ticker: Mig 21 shot down PAF Plane. i,e F16. This was just now. what do you say now?


What should i say now?


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Go cry ur unfortunate existence to sleep. Your jerk fest is over b!tch


Jackdaws said:


> Interceptor Mig21 which was chasing out a Pak jet was taken down by Pak air defences in Pak air space.


----------



## Champs Trophy 2017

*INDIA'S BLOODY NOSE*

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## The Accountant

Yes this is insider news


Cookie Monster said:


> That makes more sense. Thanks for the update. Also I didn't come across this news anywhere that u just shared with me. U have some inside sources?

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## TheDarkKnight

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440this what happend today


Finally slowly coming to senses
First no one is down
Then it was an accident
Then its mi17 only
Now its due to ground fire
- for the last part i would take PAF word for it as Pakistan is the one made the kill ; in other words how the heck you Indians know how those two a/c were brought down by us on our side of LOC!
Air defence guns against subsonic jets !!! And thag also two at the same time !!Give me a break LoL; had hoti hai chitiyapay ki!

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## Mumm-Ra

Cha gaya Babar Sher!!!!

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Go cry ur unfortunate existence to sleep. Your jerk fest is over b!tch


No need to insult. Lets remain humble.

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## casual

I would like to know which missile was fired


----------



## mastaan

I S I said:


> What should i say now?


There is no mention of F16 by any indian govt source.. it is just Indian media hyperventilating


----------



## Jackdaws

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Go cry ur unfortunate existence to sleep. Your jerk fest is over b!tch


Lol. Your jerk fest seems to be on - you captured an Indian pilot on your soil, who successfully chased you into your own land. He deserves a medal.

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

I S I said:


> What should i say now?


stop speculations. You are up against very unfair, unjust and hardheaded enemy. Give them no quarter. Read my other posts, supposedly their army came inside Lahore back in 1965.


----------



## mastaan

TheDarkKnight said:


> Finally slowly coming to senses
> First no one is down
> Then it was an accident
> Then its mi17 only
> Now its due to ground fire
> - for the last part i would take PAF word for it as Pakistan is the one made the kill ; in other words how the heck you Indians know how those two a/c were brought down by us on our side of LOC! LoL had hoti hai chitiyapay ki!


Don't think the MEA said how it was brought down.. It is just press conjecture at this stage


----------



## ZAC1

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


Buzadar ...usman buzadar ur my man

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## Clutch

I think they are drinking cow piss ..

Indians are the biggest losers.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire



F-16s were not used.
We have 2 indian pilots.
PAF struck 6 indian military targets last night.
No Pakistani loss.



ZAC1 said:


> Buzadar ...usman buzadar ur my man


Buzdar is a Baloch tribe.

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## Taimur Khurram

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.



Windy can you please give a source that one was a Su-30MKI?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

mastaan said:


> Don't think the MEA said how it was brought down.. It is just press conjecture at this stage


Your “MEA” claims it was downed in confrontation.

Lol


----------



## ZAC1

Nothing ..na na na no f-16.


RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire


----------



## alee92nawaz

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> F-16s were not used.
> We have 2 indian pilots.
> PAF struck 6 indian military targets last night.
> No Pakistani loss.
> 
> 
> Buzdar is a Baloch tribe.


Please confirm the su 30 kill.


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> 27981 is the service number of the wounded pilot, a wing commander.
> a big FU to those who thought IAF was invincible. Just saw the footage of questions being asked.


IAF is no where near invincible; they lost 4 to attrition within one week alone.

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## RPK

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> F-16s were not used.
> We have 2 indian pilots.
> PAF struck 6 indian military targets last night.
> No Pakistani loss.


one MiG 21 Bison was down pilot was captured 
One F16 down


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

You deserve a psych eval. He will face inquiries for a long time and then be forgotten.


Jackdaws said:


> Lol. Your jerk fest seems to be on - you captured an Indian pilot on your soil, who successfully chased you into your own land. He deserves a medal.


----------



## IFB

arbit said:


> You don't get it. Things just escalated. Pakistan could negotiate the prisoner of war to suggest a truce or it might use it for propaganda following which the war will spread in all spectrums including naval blockade forcing shortage of fuel. Their 3 refineries will also be in cross hairs now.
> I believe if full scale war breaks out, then p-o-k will be settled this year. This is of course one man's opinion.



Modi has to respond...things escalated...if no response modi will disappear from politics...even if it was just material loss like two jets only but pilots are safe...then also he would have had room to maneuver but tamil media reporting the fighter that went down in IOK...pilot did not survive...even worse one is in the hand of enemy...pakistan just called modi a bluff....lets see what this crazy guy does.

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## Rashid Mahmood

The SU-30 MKI killer.....!!!

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## maximuswarrior

IFB said:


> now again ball is in modi's court...people still dont know about downed IAF jets and captured pilot...wait till the news breaks out...shits gonna hit the fan...modi is in a very tight spot now...if he fucks this up...indians will bury him in the coming election...nation is in safe hands he said few hours ago...now IAF pilot is in pakistan's hand...now we have to wait and see what modi's hand will do.



From "nation being in safe hands" to IAF pilot being in Pakistani custody LOL

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## mshan44

this is not bollywood but some serious *** spanking done by paf

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## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

This is the video I saw on twitter local kashmiris beating captured Indian pilot. 
@Areesh @Rafi @PaklovesTurkiye 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952

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## monitor

Pakistani soldiers protecting the Indian pilot from Pakistani civilians who wanted to shred him into pieces.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112

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## Yaseen1

I have heard f16 sounds in Islamabad today when jets were downed it seems f16 took part in attack


----------



## razgriz19

HRK said:


> one MiG-21 is confirmed
> Conflicting report about the second jet some are it was claiming Su-30 while other are claiming MiG-29


They will never accept the second loss as the wreckage fell in their territory. 
The only reason they accepted this one was because of pilot being in custody

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## Hallian_Khan

TheDarkKnight said:


> Finally slowly coming to senses
> First no one is down
> Then it was an accident
> Then its mi17 only
> Now its due to ground fire
> - for the last part i would take PAF word for it as Pakistan is the one made the kill ; in other words how the heck you Indians know how those two a/c were brought down by us on our side of LOC!
> Air defence guns against subsonic jets !!! And thag also two at the same time !!Give me a break LoL; had hoti hai chitiyapay ki!


koi sharam hti hai koi haya hoti hai


----------



## bananarepublic

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952
reason why he got bloody nose

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## Great Janjua

RPK said:


> one MiG 21 Bison was down pilot was captured
> One F16 down


Mig 21 is one seater fighter plane not two,We have two off your pilots

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## Devil Soul

arbit said:


> You don't get it. Things just escalated. Pakistan could negotiate the prisoner of war to suggest a truce or it might use it for propaganda following which the war will spread in all spectrums including naval blockade forcing shortage of fuel. Their 3 refineries will also be in cross hairs now.
> I believe if full scale war breaks out, then p-o-k will be settled this year. This is of course one man's opinion.


you r a funny lot, still acting like a macho man, even after getting a bloody nose, keyboard warrior....

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## Taimur Khurram

Dazzler said:


> 3 pilots, one KIA, to MIA later arrested, one brought to the media, the other at CMH
> 
> 1 mig-21, 1 su-30, so i just heard..
> 
> well done Thunders, some performance!



Sources for the MKI please.


----------



## Jackdaws

Ahmet Pasha said:


> You deserve a psych eval. He will face inquiries for a long time and then be forgotten.


Yawn. You can ask Sushma Swaraj for a medical visa for your psych eval. We will go together.

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## Dazzler

Locals wanted to shred the pilot into pieces, if it wasnt for the army custody..

Thank us again Indians!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112

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## SABRE

First. IAF pilot is potentially the key to Modi's election win or loss. If the Indian opposition plays well & Pakistan refuses to hand the pilot over to BJP Govt. Modi might lose big time. If all cards played right from both sides Modi might just be wiped out from politics and BJP might be pushed back to 8-10 more years of waiting to come to power. Not that Congress is going to be much friendly, but its lesser evil.

Second. PAF must be vigilant. IAF will now try to shoot PAF jets patrolling the country within Pakistani airspace & than cook up a story that they were shot down in hot pursuit.

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## Max

@Jackdaws


----------



## Taimur Khurram

mastaan said:


> To Pakistan posters - Any confirmed news on the second pilot? or that is a press speculation?



Yes they're in the video where one of the pilots is interviewed. You can see two more in the background.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

why is that surprising? This was done to PAF pilots esp one who eventually became Air chief. He was rescued by IA Major .They later met up in Washington DC in the latter part of their life. What a coincidence.

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## blain2

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100672228021153792


And eventually returned with dignity. 

I hope better sense prevails.

We were challenged, we answered, Alhamdolillah.

"
Indian defence sources have confirmed that Pakistan Air Force jets violated Indian airspace this morning and said they were chased away. 


The Pakistan strike component comprised 12 fighters- Four Mirages, Four F-16 and Four JF-17 fighters. The Indian Air Force too had sent 12 fighters to hit the JeM training camp.

“The Pakistan air assault came through Kalal area in Rajouri District. They tried to target a forward ammunition depot, an army installation,” a senior official in the security establishment who did not want to be named said and added that “the Indian Air Force engaged the oncoming fighters.”
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...eases-video/story-AldlacNv2ysJNjoyipx50H.html

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## KRAIT

Jf Thunder said:


> got any proof
> or is it all propaganda?


Official statement. That's what I am telling.


----------



## mastaan

monitor said:


> Pakistani soldiers protecting the Indian pilot from Pakistani civilians who wanted to shred him into pieces.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112



Nothing less should be expected from a professional force for treatment of a PoW... He is a fighter for his country and deserves to be protected under humanitarian grounds and under geneva conventions... 

Any news on the second pilot. Nothing anywhere so far

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## Cthulhu

maverick1977 said:


> Top one is su30 and bottom mig 21








The top one is a BAE Hawk from a 2015 crash in Kashmir the bottom one is a MiG-27 from a 2018 crash in Jodhpur.

https://odishasuntimes.com/iaf-fighter-plane-crashes-in-odishas-mayurbhanj/





https://www.udayavani.com/english/news/national/321855/iafs-mig-27-fighter-jet-crashes-jodhpur





Is there any reliable source conforming the SU-30 shot down or not?

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## ziaulislam

New claim we shot 1 pak jet..india


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## Avicenna

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!



Not really a fair statement is it?

Although it is unfortunate.

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## Hallian_Khan

monitor said:


> Pakistani soldiers protecting the Indian pilot from Pakistani civilians who wanted to shred him into pieces.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112


i have another video too but cant post here coz of visual shit


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## maximuswarrior

arbit said:


> You don't get it. Things just escalated. Pakistan could negotiate the prisoner of war to suggest a truce or it might use it for propaganda following which the war will spread in all spectrums including naval blockade forcing shortage of fuel. Their 3 refineries will also be in cross hairs now.
> I believe if full scale war breaks out, then p-o-k will be settled this year. This is of course one man's opinion.



What will be settled is Indian Occupied Kashmir. We will come and get it and you will watch us whilst we do it.

Look at that ugly face of yours. You got humiliated. LOL

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## Rafi

Rashid Mahmood said:


> The SU-30 MKI killer.....!!!
> 
> 
> View attachment 542385



I bet you the NC will want to buy some now. Lol.

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## ziaulislam

Though claim is weird f16 shot by mig21


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## valkyr_96

SABRE said:


> First. IAF pilot is potentially the key to Modi's election win or loss. If the Indian opposition plays well & Pakistan refuses to hand the pilot over to BJP Govt. Modi might lose big time. All cards played from both sides Modi might just be wiped out from politics and BJP might be pushed back to 8-10 more years of waiting to come to power. Not that Congress is going to be much friendly, but its lesser evil.
> 
> Second. PAF must be vigilant. IAF will now try to shoot PAF jets patrolling the country within Pakistani airspace & than cook up a story that they were shot down in hot pursuit.


 Pakistan should take the bluster head on and invite nyt dw af to come and see where the indian struck and let them see for themselves the indian propaganda against Pakistan. This is most important


----------



## Ghessan

Kashmiris are Kashmiris they are on this side or other side of LOC

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## Foxtrot Delta

Civilians should know. Beating or killing pilots ain't civilized

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## Stealth

*Kutay wali pahti hey tu pora media kahna shuru hogaya hey inka kay DIPLOMATIC rasta ikhtaar karain HAHAHHA tumhare maa ke asi ke tesi

No Cease Fire No Peace Agreement... we offered they refused, we told don't mess they invite and now.......... No evidence of Surgical Strikes, No evidence of yesterday Airstrike killed 300 shits, but yea WE HAVE EVIDENCE and the ENTIRE world will see*

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## mastaan

Taimur Khurram said:


> Yes they're in the video where one of the pilots is interviewed. You can see two more in the background.


I could not see them.. But 3 pilots in a single place might not be plausible.. Plus there is news of only 2 and not 3, even by DG ISPR admission


----------



## Devil Soul

bananarepublic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952
> reason why he got bloody nose


the troops should have moved in quickly & should have secured the prisoner... on the other hand he is lucky that he was taken into safe custody before the civilians lynched him...


----------



## RPK

Great Janjua said:


> Mig 21 is one seater fighter plane not two,We have two off your pilots


Second Pilot still speculation


----------



## fitpOsitive

WaLeEdK2 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100664453207674880


PAF has maintained an iron punch, even with scarse resources. 
I remember the Sunnah, where Nabi Pak had many swords, and it was not rare that he and umahat ul momineen were not eating for many day, as there was nothing to eat. 
I am remembering Bhuttos grass sentense, although I am not a big fan of Bhutto. 
Hats off for PAF and armed forces of Pakistan.


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## valkyr_96

KRAIT said:


> Official statement. That's what I am telling.


 Buddy the official statement some hours back was "all our airmen are accounted for" I can seem to post the bloomberg feed.

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## Dazzler

RPK said:


> one MiG 21 Bison was down pilot was captured
> One F16 down



No F-16s have been used as per DG ISPR


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## Great Janjua

RPK said:


> Second Pilot still speculation


He is under going treatment in cmh


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## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> You don't get it. Things just escalated. Pakistan could negotiate the prisoner of war to suggest a truce or it might use it for propaganda following which the war will spread in all spectrums including naval blockade forcing shortage of fuel. Their 3 refineries will also be in cross hairs now.
> I believe if full scale war breaks out, then p-o-k will be settled this year. This is of course one man's opinion.


Let me assure you Pakistan is eager to seek peace

Azad Kashmir will not be settled it will go up to MAD
As you guys knows there are immature people on this side


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## arbit

Devil Soul said:


> you r a funny lot, still acting like a macho man, even after getting a bloody nose, keyboard warrior....



I have stated facts about the blockade and refineries and shortage of fuel and other necessities. 
War has casualties, we didn't stop when we lost Nachiketa what makes you think we will stop now. The captured pilot is good for the morale of your lay public. Your govt and airforce know what's coming.

Of course the P-o-k thing is just my assumption. You are free to reject it.


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## darksider

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112


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## Joe Shearer

Avicenna said:


> Not really a fair statement is it?
> 
> Although it is unfortunate.



Why not? Are you justifying it? In what way is it unfair?


----------



## Sine Nomine

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


Don't worry he is safe but Modi has ruined career.
And public you know is public and i doubt anyone would have done it since he was armed.


----------



## Jf Thunder

credits to me 

for shooting the plane I mean

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## Clutch

Avicenna said:


> Not really a fair statement is it?
> 
> Although it is unfortunate.



This war... We want to drink your blood. 

I want REVENGE!


----------



## ziaulislam

Pakistanis learned it lesson from 1971

From words it seems india is deescalating stating 1 vs 1 stalemate


----------



## Areesh

I actually feel sorry for him

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## Ahmet Pasha

Be careful bro her plane flies over Pak on way back


Jackdaws said:


> Yawn. You can ask Sushma Swaraj for a medical visa for your psych eval. We will go together.


----------



## maximuswarrior

razgriz19 said:


> They will never accept the second loss as the wreckage fell in their territory.
> The only reason they accepted this one was because of pilot being in custody



It doesn't matter. The whole world is reporting it. India got shamed and humiliated.

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## The Sandman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100697950643200000 moment pilot got captured respect for troops stopping people not to beat him

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## RPK

Dazzler said:


> No F-16s have been used as per DG ISPR


One F16 Down friendly fire most probably from ground



Great Janjua said:


> He is under going treatment in cmh


If he is there from another Mig 21 I can only speculate


----------



## Riz

mshan44 said:


> this is not bollywood but some serious *** spanking done by paf
> View attachment 542386


Humiliation..


----------



## Jf Thunder

KRAIT said:


> Official statement. That's what I am telling.


your official statement is also based on lies 
sad


----------



## KRAIT

valkyr_96 said:


> Buddy the official statement some hours back was "all our airmen are accounted for" I can seem to post the bloomberg feed.


Brigade HQ was the target of PAF. Escalation is increasing.


----------



## Avicenna

Joe Shearer said:


> Why not? Are you justifying it? In what way is it unfair?



Pak army was protecting the pilot from the locals.

Some irate locals don't exactly represent the whole nation.

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## Areesh

Joe Shearer said:


> Why not? Are you justifying it? In what way is it unfair?



It is done by public and local villagers not Pak army guys

Secondly blame your own media and your government for this

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## Joe Shearer

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> why is that surprising? This was done to PAF pilots esp one who eventually became Air chief. He was rescued by IA Major .They later met up in Washington DC in the latter part of their life. What a coincidence.



Ah, impeccable logic. 

Two wrongs make one right. 

Got it.


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## ziaulislam

Devil Soul said:


> the troops should have moved in quickly & should have secured the prisoner... on the other hand he is lucky that he was taken into safe custody before the civilians lynched him...


This is bad..people should have dignity

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## Great Janjua

Joe Shearer said:


> Why not? Are you justifying it? In what way is it unfair?


If you bomb their houses don't expect flowers in return he is in safe hands

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## JonAsad

where is the wreckage of su 30?


----------



## IceCold

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


Sir! do you think Pakistani pilot would have been mated with a different response had he been capture by Indians? I think not. 
Emotions run high specially when last night Indian jets violated airspace. What matters is how is he treated by the Pakistani state? If you have complain there, please let us know.

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## aziqbal

All praise belongs to Allah and his messenger

And the enemy’s of Islam and Pakistan be defeated ameen

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

these people have had their land stolen and taken a beating from indian forces for over 7 decades. What did you expect?

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## Dazzler

RPK said:


> One F16 Down friendly fire most probably from ground
> 
> 
> If he is there from another Mig 21 I can only speculate



Arent you guys tired of this shitty propaganda? Show the wreckage plz

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## maximuswarrior

The Sandman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100697950643200000 moment pilot got captured respect for troops stopping people not to beat him



Well done boys. He came here with his big mustache. Acting tough. We nailed the bastard. Absolutely nailed the fvcker.

A message to the whole world. Don't fvck with us.


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## Windjammer

Indian MOD and Foreign Ministry are trying hard to soften the blow and utter humiliation by constantly changing statements and peddling lies.
Pakistan has IAF Pilots in custody and all other details. Video footage will also be released to put the cherry on the cake.

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## arbit

ziaulislam said:


> Let me assure you Pakistan is eager to seek peace
> 
> Azad Kashmir will not be settled it will go up to MAD
> As you guys knows there are immature people on this side




Peace was cheap. All you had to do was to shut terror camps and ensure no radicalisation took place against India. Your establishment chose not to do it. The suicide bomber that took 40 lives was trained in Balakot. 

Peace is good. Who wants to die in war and screw the economy but then there is a time and place for everything.


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## IFB

wait till they see IAF pilot getting beat up in pakistan...that one video is more damaging to the common man than 40+ CRPF getting blown to smithereens...will put tremendous pressure on MODI to do something...lets see how this guy slithers out of this situation.


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## maximuswarrior

ziaulislam said:


> This is bad..people should have dignity



He is lucky to be alive. In India you can be rest assured that our pilots would be lynched.


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Good behaviour. There is nothing bigger than humanity. We should treat him according to international laws.

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## Imran Khan

*گرفتار پائیلٹ کو گورنمنٹ پرائمری سکول تعینات کر کے کچى کلاس دینے کا فیصله*


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## aziqbal

This is what happens when you stop fighting kids in Kashmir and face real men of honour 

Look at this young lion

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## Joe Shearer

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Don't worry he is safe but Modi has ruined career.
> And public you know is public and i doubt anyone would have done it since he was armed.



Modi has ruined whose career? His own has got an intra-muscular injection of vitamin; his losing election prospects have been turned right around, and there is no way he will lose. 

The next sentence is one I couldn't decipher.


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Joe Shearer said:


> Ah, impeccable logic.
> 
> Two wrongs make one right.
> 
> Got it.


the point was that people on both sides are pretty much the same. Got it?


----------



## dilpakistani

mastaan said:


> I could not see them.. But 3 pilots in a single place might not be plausible.. Plus there is news of only 2 and not 3, even by DG ISPR admission


Yup 3rd one gotten arrested after DGISPR press briefing...

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## PDF

Observing this aircraft for quite a while.







blain2 said:


> The Pakistan strike component comprised 12 fighters- Four Mirages, Four F-16 and Four JF-17 fighters. The Indian Air Force too had sent 12 fighters to hit the JeM training camp.


wrong composition...

IK live address to nation.

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## RPK

Dazzler said:


> rent you guys tired of this shitty propaganda? Show the wreckage plz


F16 came for bombing chased by Mig -21. F-16 and Mig-21 fell prey for ground fire from Pakistani side


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## valkyr_96

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


 It is the local kashmir and yes they are a brave nation fighting Indian occupation. But not the Pakistan army in fact they are saying enough. What are you expecting thank you come again! as per you post yesterday get *your* head out of the sand!


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## aziqbal

Long live the Pakistan Air Force 

True fighters of the sky 

That’s where they roll

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## Rashid Mahmood

mastaan said:


> I could not see them.. But 3 pilots in a single place might not be plausible.. Plus there is news of only 2 and not 3, even by DG ISPR admission



1 pilot from MIG 21
2 Pilots from SU 30MKI

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## mastaan

IceCold said:


> Sir! do you think Pakistani pilot would have been mated with a different response had he been capture by Indians? I think not.
> Emotions run high specially when last night Indian jets violated airspace. What matters is how is he treated by the Pakistani state? If you have complain there, please let us know.


Agree.


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## Joe Shearer

Avicenna said:


> Pak army was protecting the pilot from the locals.



So the clip showed.



> Some irate locals don't exactly represent the whole nation.



Let me know what number, in your opinion, does so.

Do let me know your estimate both for inside PDF and outside PDF.


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## blackuday

Confirm

According to the Pakistan military’s official spokesperson* Major General Asif Ghafoor, two Indian jets had been shot down by Pakistan’s JF-17 combat jets*. However, Indian authorities said one of the aircraft was a helicopter and its crash was attributed to a “technical snag.” Two bodies were recovered from the crash site, one the pilot and the other a civilian, according to sources in India.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/02/a...rcraft-and-arrested-a-pilot-developing-story/

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## Hyde

Well if you expect civilians to welcome him with flowers then it is not possible. But I understand he should have been treated in civilized manner and held in custody until the army approaches to him

I see the Army jawan in the video but most likely this video was shot before more officers had arrived

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## Areesh

Avicenna said:


> Pak army was protecting the pilot from the locals.
> 
> Some irate locals don't exactly represent the whole nation.



Pak army actually protected him. He would have been dead right now if they didn't protect him


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## pakdefender

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!



Get off your high horse , irritating Indian! 

What do you expect the people you have come to bomb will give your flowers ?!! 

and if it weren't for the intervention of the soldiers , the pilot would surely be dead by now

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

IceCold said:


> Sir! do you think Pakistani pilot would have been mated with a different response had he been capture by Indians? I think not.
> Emotions run high specially when last night Indian jets violated airspace. What matters is how is he treated by the Pakistani state? If you have complain there, please let us know.


dude these are people with their own version of logic. stop wasting time with these creatures. It only doesnt make sense to them when it supports their narrative. I dont even respond to the likes of these really and it was the last time I did a moment ago.


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## Indus Pakistan

Two Indian Aircraft have been shot down by PAF and Pakistan has taken it's revenge plus interest on Ganga India. I want to use this thread to show support to PAF and Pakistan Armed Forces. time for all Pakistani;s to stand united. It was really pleasing to see Sherry Rehman of PPP and Kwaja Asif of PML-N showing solidarity. Modi's Ganga has been slapped right in his ugly mutt. And this should sober up his billion plus army of aboriginal Dalits from the Ganga jungles.

Yeh that is a Gangoo flag ....


































*Pakistan-India: Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' over Kashmir*

Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian Air Force jets in a major escalation of the Kashmir conflict.

A spokesman said one plane had fallen in Pakistani territory and two pilots had been captured. Pakistan also denied reports one of its jets was shot down.

India has confirmed the loss of an MiG21 fighter and said a pilot was missing. It said it was investigating reports of his capture.

Both India and Pakistan claim all of Kashmir, but control only parts of it.

The nuclear powers have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947. All but one were over Kashmir.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634










Captured Indian pilot.

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## mastaan

Rashid Mahmood said:


> 1 pilot from MIG 21
> 2 Pilots from SU 30MKI



I think I will stick with what the professionals of 2 nations are saying and not listen to news.. SO, just worried about the second airman and his well being


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## Agha Sher

RPK said:


> F16 came for bombing chased by Mig -21. F-16 and Mig-21 fell prey for ground fire from Pakistani side



stop being so fucking stupid.

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## Imran Khan

Riz said:


> Video Not available





PakShaheen79 said:


> Where is Video?


 fixed check again

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## ziaulislam

razgriz19 said:


> They will never accept the second loss as the wreckage fell in their territory.
> The only reason they accepted this one was because of pilot being in custody


We shouldnt push it ..as it seems they want to deescalate



IFB said:


> wait till they see IAF pilot getting beat up in pakistan...that one video is more damaging to the common man than 40+ CRPF getting blown to smithereens...will put tremendous pressure on MODI .


Honestly this is not beating. He was saved from anger but yeah this was bad



arbit said:


> Peace was cheap. All you had to do was to shut terror camps and ensure no radicalisation took place against India. Your establishment chose not to do it. The suicide bomber that took 40 lives was trained in Balakot.
> 
> Peace is good. Who wants to die in war and screw the economy but then there is a time and place for everything.


And what do we gain by terrorist attacks..it gives us no startegic benefits...yes supporting huryat conference is probably done by Pakistan but militancy support is not helping 

So its upto you believe your fake news (proven today event hiw they were denying) or impose war that will lead to MAD


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## scionofPakwattan

Rashid Mahmood said:


> 1 pilot from MIG 21
> 2 Pilots from SU 30MKI


whats your source


----------



## Nefarious

I as a civilian would beat the F out of anyone who came to drop bombs on me. Army can stay professional.

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## Mirzah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100701038405918720

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## Goenitz

give credit to @valkyr_96


----------



## Sheikh Rauf

Joe Shearer said:


> Ah, impeccable logic.
> 
> Two wrongs make one right.
> 
> Got it.


lol seems like you are hurt that your plane than the pilot. if it was india they have burn him alive. he is war prisoner we start counting 1+1=2 ...


----------



## Char

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.



admire PAF!

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## Whirling_dervesh

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


Just kashmiris getting their revenge. This isn't occupied Kashmir it is azad kashmir


----------



## Avicenna

Joe Shearer said:


> So the clip showed.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know what number, in your opinion, does so.
> 
> Do let me know your estimate both for inside PDF and outside PDF.



That burden is on you. 

You were the one that made the assertion in the first place.


----------



## Lincoln

Indians were claiming we dressed our own soldier and recorded fake footage, well there you have it. The pilot is very much real, and very much within our custody.


----------



## Mentee

Breaking : Pakistan conducted air strikes in Indian occupied Kashmir at 3 military installations :Indian foreign office

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## Kedardel

Though I am concerned for IAF pilot. But this incident has certain highlights. The IAF is very aggressive they chased intruders beyond LOC, unlike PAF which didn’t engage when IAF had raided. Further, next time it wont be JeM alone but their would be PAF aircraft’s targeted by the raiding IAF jets.
I hope things will settle down now. Since we got our revenge and Pakistan got its response.

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## SABRE

According to PM both were MiGs.


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## Sugarcane

bananarepublic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952
> reason why he got bloody nose



I don't agree with public beating him after surrender.

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## Thunder.Storm

Taimur Khurram said:


> Sources for the MKI please.

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## valkyr_96

Goenitz said:


> give credit to @valkyr_96


 Not needed I am just going around other thread and updating where I can


----------



## Amigator

Kedardel said:


> Though I am concerned for IAF pilot. But this incident has certain highlights. The IAF is very aggressive they chased intruders beyond LOC, unlike PAF which didn’t engage when IAF had raided. Further, next time it wont be JeM alone but their would be PAF aircraft’s targeted by the raiding IAF jets.
> I hope things will settle down now. Since we got our revenge and Pakistan got its response.


Buk Buk Buk band karo bhigore

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## Path-Finder

casual said:


> I would like to know which missile was fired


without doubt Chinese missile.


----------



## WAJsal

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


Let's be thankful that he was not killed. And that was possible.... Thank fully he was captured in time by PA, i hope we don't mistreat him.
Secondly let's say if the same happened on Indian side would locals there not do the same?
I hope we start thinking rationally, do listen to PM IK 's speech, he has said some really logical things.

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## Mentee

Guys it's official now. Indian foreign office just admitted Pakistani stance


----------



## Imran Khan

MODI's bad mouthing turned up side down . ab aram hai tujhy

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## Devil Soul

arbit said:


> I have stated facts about the blockade and refineries and shortage of fuel and other necessities.
> War has casualties, we didn't stop when we lost Nachiketa what makes you think we will stop now. The captured pilot is good for the morale of your lay public. Your govt and airforce know what's coming.
> 
> Of course the P-o-k thing is just my assumption. You are free to reject it.


Dont tell us about war & casualties, we have been fighting the war for the last 15 years with proxies & both the soldiers + civilians are battle harden, so what makes you think we r not ready .... but war bring nothing except pain & suffering.. i hope sense prevails here ...


----------



## Hu Yao

Imran Khan said:


> fixed check again


Will you give us some snapshot please? I failed to load facebook sdk today........


----------



## Path-Finder

ahhh, this guy was talking crap against the forces yesterday!!


----------



## Canuck786

Two MIG-21 as per the Prime Minister. No MKI!

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## IceCold

darksider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112


@Joe Shearer Sir this is how he was treated by the Pakistan army. Any objections now sir?


----------



## blain2

KRAIT said:


> Brigade HQ was the target of PAF. Escalation is increasing.


But PAF did not hit it. What Pakistan Air Force did was to demonstrate its reach & ability to hit! This is a message in the same vein as what IAF was trying to give by going for a non-military target. 

PAF will release footage of what they could have hit.

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## Joe Shearer

IceCold said:


> Sir! do you think Pakistani pilot would have been mated with a different response had he been capture by Indians? I think not.



Would you like, Sir, a hypothetical response, or a response drawn from real life? In order to frame an appropriate answer, might I take the liberty of asking if you were old enough to have watched the news in 1971?



> Emotions run high specially when last night Indian jets violated airspace.



Oh, that was noticed.

By the same Indians on PDF who faced taunts and gibes, and thoroughly despicable wishes for more, when 44 of our constables were killed on the 14th. 



> What matters is how is he treated by the Pakistani state? If you have complain there, please let us know.



Presumably he is now in the hands of the Pakistani state. I have no complaints there, I am not an official. Nor am I the father of people who fell into the hands of the Pakistani state during the Kargil operations, and am therefore not entitled to an opinion of any worth.



Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> the point was that people on both sides are pretty much the same. Got it?



You mean your lot are also green skinned and double-headed, like us? Shucks.

Yes, got it.


----------



## Shot-Caller

Kedardel said:


> Though I am concerned for IAF pilot. But this incident has certain highlights. The IAF is very aggressive they chased intruders beyond LOC, unlike PAF which didn’t engage when IAF had raided. Further, next time it wont be JeM alone but their would be PAF aircraft’s targeted by the raiding IAF jets.
> I hope things will settle down now. Since *we got our revenge* and Pakistan got its response.



Yeah you got your revenge from poor trees. Try smoking a joint it may take away the pain of embarrassment you are feeling today.


----------



## Windjammer

Anyone can see this is no Delta Wing of a MiG-21.

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## R Wing

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!



I don't condone this --- but wasn't it your Army shelling/shooting civilians around this area up till last night? 

By all accounts, Modi's maniacal antics before elections were totally unwarranted and extremely dangerous. I hope he/the frenzied India media/Hindutva psychopaths are all happy now.


----------



## ziaulislam

Still dont understand how can india think that Kashmir people dont like them..dont take me wrong they dont like us either probably ..jammu people seems more pro indians..so get your house in order



arbit said:


> I have stated facts about the blockade and refineries and shortage of fuel and other necessities.
> War has casualties, we didn't stop when we lost Nachiketa what makes you think we will stop now. The captured pilot is good for the morale of your lay public. Your govt and airforce know what's coming.
> 
> Of course the P-o-k thing is just my assumption. You are free to reject it.


We lost 70,000 in your proxy war..so thats a figure..

Why is international media quiet on Indian claim ..i think they think its absurd


----------



## Longhorn

IFB said:


> Modi has to respond...things escalated...if no response modi will disappear from politics...even if it was just material loss like two jets only but pilots are safe...then also he would have had room to maneuver but tamil media reporting the fighter that went down in IOK...pilot did not survive...even worse one is in the hand of enemy...pakistan just called modi a bluff....lets see what this crazy guy does.


He'll do what all bullies do when the smallest boy in the playground gives them a bloody nose.

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## Joe Shearer

valkyr_96 said:


> It is the local kashmir and yes they are a brave nation fighting Indian occupation. But not the Pakistan army in fact they are saying enough. What are you expecting thank you come again! as per you post yesterday get *your* head out of the sand!



If that is on your side of the LOC, there is not a single Indian soldier there.


----------



## IceCold

Joe Shearer said:


> Would you like, Sir, a hypothetical response, or a response drawn from real life? In order to frame an appropriate answer, might I take the liberty of asking if you were old enough to have watched the news in 1971?



No Sir! it was more than decade before my time.





> Presumably he is now in the hands of the Pakistani state. I have no complaints there, I am not an official. Nor am I the father of people who fell into the hands of the Pakistani state during the Kargil operations, and am therefore not entitled to an opinion of any worth.



I tagged you in another thread, precisely for this.


----------



## Rusty

POW needs to be treated with respect and dignity. 
Blood is running hot now days. 
I do condemn this behaviour.

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## Kambojaric

Good to see soldiers protecting him. Prisoners have rights in Islam too. Lets not forget to be better.

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## blain2

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Pakistan Shot down Two Indian Planes *


That looks like a Mig-29 tail. Can members confirm?


----------



## RangeMaster

This is called professionalism.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112

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## Jackdaws

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Be careful bro her plane flies over Pak on way back


That's ok. I doubt it will be chasing one of your jets.


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100702928573267969
This is a longer vid

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## aziqbal

Might be getting carried away here 

But Saladin also was very generous to prisoners

Which is why he won

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## BHarwana




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## blain2

member.exe said:


> Unlike Yadhav he is a prisnor of war. He was captured wearing his country's uniform


Pakistan will return him. We are signatories to the Geneva convention and their pilot(s) would be treated as well as possible.

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## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> Peace was cheap. All you had to do was to shut terror camps and ensure no radicalisation took place against India. Your establishment chose not to do it. The suicide bomber that took 40 lives was trained in Balakot.
> 
> Peace is good. Who wants to die in war and screw the economy but then there is a time and place for everything.


Well remember this proxy war started from 1966.. After 1965 war india choose to do this


----------



## Thunder.Storm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100683852119306241

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## Imran Khan

__ https://www.facebook.com/





slapped this poor guy



Path-Finder said:


> ahhh, this guy was talking crap against the forces yesterday!!


do you guys want robots ? yes we bad mouthed because since 1999 our airforce was sleeping awaked today morning . how can you justify salala drones and obl raid ? what we did when su-30 crossed after mumbai ? so bashing them was a reason and i am not apologist for PAF past . yes they are hero today

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## SABRE

This video has been shared. Again, *can we not have a single thread for this situation?*


----------



## kingQamaR

Fieldmarshal said:


> 1 mirage 2000 and 1 su30 shot down



If this is true. Then Jf17 Alhamdulliah even more deadly than we all thought before


----------



## Joe Shearer

pakdefender said:


> Get off your high horse , irritating Indian!
> 
> What do you expect the people you have come to bomb will give your flowers ?!!
> 
> and if it weren't for the intervention of the soldiers , the pilot would surely be dead by now



Make up your mind what you are trying to say.

All that comes across is extreme frustration.



Whirling_dervesh said:


> Just kashmiris getting their revenge. This isn't occupied Kashmir it is azad kashmir



I suppose I should retract my remarks. I am sorry I called it a brave nation. Thank you for correcting me.



Avicenna said:


> That burden is on you.
> 
> You were the one that made the assertion in the first place.



I stick by my observation. If you have facts to contradict it, go ahead.


----------



## mudas777

Well he is safe and in good hands. His mum will be pleased to know that he can't put his life in a harm way for Modi for a while and advise for him to retire while he is alive and join the peace movement. Locals should have behaved better towards him and respected his rank and saluted him I guess for courage to fight against us. Shame his flight got cut short lol.

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## Jackdaws

Max said:


> @Jackdaws


Congrats.



Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100702928573267969
> This is a longer vid


So now we know which country has lynch mobs


----------



## Imran Khan

Hu Yao said:


> Will you give us some snapshot please? I failed to load facebook sdk today........


villagers were slapping and kicking him until PAK army come to rescue him from mob and took him in custody


----------



## bananarepublic

Windjammer said:


> Anyone can see this is no Delta Wing of a MiG-21.


can probably the plane from the antenna on it


----------



## EmeraldRabbit

Imagine being terrorized on the ground while flying these death machines in the air

Hard for the civilians to control themselves...

Just because he is acting like a lalluu like all indian soldiers are, doesn't mean that sympathy be shown to him.


----------



## LeGenD

Areesh said:


> I actually feel sorry for him


Same.

Thankfully our armed forces got there in time and shielded him. We are Muslims and our conduct with PoWs should be good.

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## Joe Shearer

WAJsal said:


> Let's be thankful that he was not killed. And that was possible.... Thank fully he was captured in time by PA, i hope we don't mistreat him.



You do realise that I speak from historical precedent? 



> Secondly let's say if the same happened on Indian side would locals there not do the same?



They might. I would not like to state it as a given.




> I hope we start thinking rationally, do listen to PM IK 's speech, he has said some really logical things.



Which speech? Where? When?


----------



## I S I

I wish that pilot was Joe the monkey. Would love to see him get beaten by a irritated mob.

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## Avicenna

Joe Shearer said:


> Make up your mind what you are trying to say.
> 
> All that comes across is extreme frustration.
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I should retract my remarks. I am sorry I called it a brave nation. Thank you for correcting me.
> 
> 
> 
> I stick by my observation. If you have facts to contradict it, go ahead.



And I stand by what I stated and have nothing further to say on that.

Hope you are enjoying your tea.


----------



## Path-Finder

I am glad the army got to him in time otherwise locals were not exactly going to wait.


----------



## The Sandman

arbit said:


> I have stated facts about the blockade and refineries and shortage of fuel and other necessities.
> War has casualties, we didn't stop when we lost Nachiketa what makes you think we will stop now. The captured pilot is good for the morale of your lay public. Your govt and airforce know what's coming.
> 
> Of course the P-o-k thing is just my assumption. You are free to reject it.


Stop this chest thumping and thirst for more war haven't you got enough this month or probably for a whole year? Still there is time solve kashmir issue through talks listen to our PM he is still offering peace your gov is doing all of this for votes WAKEUP.


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## Arsalan 345

i think pakistan army saved life of indian pilot.locals were very angry.


----------



## SABRE

Shot-Caller said:


> Yeah you got your revenge from poor trees. Try smoking a joint it may take away the pain of embarrassment you are feeling today.



A poor crow also died. They were all living things. Had nothing to do with India-Pakistan tussle.


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## Talwar e Pakistan

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


They are Kashmiris... this was personal for them.

If he had crashed in Lahore, we all know what the outcome would've been

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## Nefarious

This what happens when you over estimate yourself and under estimate your enemy. Respect to Pak armed forces. Over due reality check.

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## Areesh

Jackdaws said:


> So now we know which country has lynch mobs



Your country obviously


----------



## Imran Khan

ohhh man this is really sad but you know mob mentality of south asia .

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## Bengal71

Imran Khan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slapped this poor guy
> 
> 
> do you guys want robots ? yes we bad mouthed because since 1999 our airforce was sleeping awaked today morning . how can you justify salala drones and obl raid ? what we did when su-30 crossed after mumbai ? so bashing them was a reason and i am not apologist for PAF past . yes they are hero today



Is that a Mig-21 shot down? Which aircraft PAF used, I hope it's JF-17 that drew the blood, will add the fear factor.

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## pkuser2k12

blain2 said:


> That looks like a Mig-29 tail. Can members confirm?



This is an old picture not recent shown on 92 news .I and others here have uploaded pictures from today on this thread you can see them


----------



## Waqar Rashid

Captured Indian pilot in an old Indian video on youtube.

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## HRK

> Well done. What a brave nation!


Kashmirs (_whom India claim as their)_ at the both side of LOC are indeed a Brave Nation


----------



## Flash_Ninja

Avicenna said:


> Pak army was protecting the pilot from the locals.
> 
> Some irate locals don't exactly represent the whole nation.



Not just locals but Kashmiris, who are understandably very upset

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## Mig hunter

All praise be to Allah... Our message to our neibour is very clear... We are neither aggressors nor have wish for war. If you have problems sort them out in your own country. But if challenged then this will happen

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## Char

monitor said:


> Pakistani soldiers protecting the Indian pilot from Pakistani civilians who wanted to shred him into pieces.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112



Maybe the India pilot is eating dinner after bathe in Pakistan now.

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## Path-Finder

Imran Khan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slapped this poor guy
> 
> 
> do you guys want robots ? yes we bad mouthed because since 1999 our airforce was sleeping awaked today morning . how can you justify salala drones and obl raid ? what we did when su-30 crossed after mumbai ? so bashing them was a reason and i am not apologist for PAF past . yes they are hero today



some people reside on the wrong side of the boundary.

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## Dr. Strangelove

Sugarcane said:


> I don't agree with public beating him after surrender.


yesterday an artillery shell struck a house killed 3 members of the same family 
you and me can say what ever we want but these people are the ones paying with their lives and they are angry 
P.S i agree with you

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## ziaulislam

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> This is the video I saw on twitter local kashmiris beating captured Indian pilot.
> @Areesh @Rafi @PaklovesTurkiye
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952


You can see he is being shielded by army person ..and this is more anger than beating


----------



## holysinner

IceCold said:


> Sir! do you think Pakistani pilot would have been mated with a different response had he been capture by Indians? I think not.
> Emotions run high specially when last night Indian jets violated airspace. What matters is how is he treated by the Pakistani state? If you have complain there, please let us know.



We are muslims. Our Prophet has taught us to treat even our enemies knidly. I am saddened to see people hitting a POW. He was not resisting. No point of hitting him no matter what.

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## Joe Shearer

IceCold said:


> @Joe Shearer Sir this is how he was treated by the Pakistan army. Any objections now sir?



No, none, but what has been shown? There is a picture, and I can't figure out who is who.

The video apparently of the roughing up of a person by locals, another video apparently of an airforce officer named Abhi, blindfolded, tied with hands behind his back, and bleeding, are all there. In the second, the detenu asks, after giving his name, rank and serial number, if he is in the custody of the PA, but there is no answer on the video.

Now I am shown this picture, and am pleased to see three young men very well at ease with the world. Who are they?


----------



## Amigator



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## Avicenna

holysinner said:


> We are muslims. Our Prophet has taught us to treat even our enemies knidly. I am saddened to see people hitting a POW. He was not resisting. No point of hitting him no matter what.



This is actually the most important thing.

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## mshan44



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## Imran Khan

Bengal71 said:


> Is that a Mig-21 shot down? Which aircraft PAF used, I hope it's JF-17 that drew the blood, will add the fear factor.


its unclear sir soem said su-30 and mig-21 other say mirage 2000 and mig-21 not clear yet .but one thing is sure one was single seater one was duel seater



Path-Finder said:


> some people reside on the wrong side of the boundary.


some people just cant digest opposite point of view .they want brainless sheep to be follow them

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## newb3e

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


your coward bastards have murdered their women childern and old why do you expect them to respect you!

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## tanlixiang28776

Path-Finder said:


> without doubt Chinese missile.



Seems the PL-9C and SD10A were more than adequate equipped on the JF 17 against even MKIs. Hopefully they can integrate cutting edge missiles like the PL 10 and PL 15 and on new AESA equipped JF 17s.

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## Maarkhoor

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> This is the video I saw on twitter local kashmiris beating captured Indian pilot.
> @Areesh @Rafi @PaklovesTurkiye
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952


This is not good, captured soldier must be treated well.....I don't like it even our religion don't allow us.

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## paritosh

Nefarious said:


> This what happens when you over estimate yourself and under estimate your enemy. Respect to Pak armed forces. Over due reality check.


Can't deny that we have capabilities on both sides but there is not point in claiming victory over anything. The next few days will be tense, we might be staring at the first proper war in more than 40 years. Smart people on both the sides will be busy creating set-pieces and battle strategies right now, but the smartest would be busy figuring out an exit strategy.

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## Path-Finder

Imran Khan said:


> its unclear sir soem said su-30 and mig-21 other say mirage 2000 and mig-21 not clear yet .but one thing is sure one was single seater one was duel seater
> 
> 
> some people just cant digest opposite point of view .they want brainless sheep to be follow them


some people are a waste of oxygen but they still loiter around acting important.

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## Sugarcane

Dr. Strangelove said:


> yesterday an artillery shell struck a house killed 3 members of the same family
> you and me can say what ever we want but these people are the ones paying with their lives and they are angry
> P.S i agree with you



I know people are right angry, but these are times when faith and how much one follow the teachings is tested.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RPK said:


> Second Pilot still speculation


No speculation.
1 indian pilot was captured in injured state and shifted to CMH.
1 remains in custody.

No F-16 used during the operation, no Pakistani losses.

However another indian MI helicopter crashed outside Sri nagar killing 2 crew in a seperate incident.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire


Any source to back that up? There was only one crash site on Pakistan's side, angry Kashmiris flooded the area and began beating up the pilot before the army came in and rescued him.

Also F-16s were not used in this operation.

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## rott

Mentee said:


> Breaking : Pakistan conducted air strikes in Indian occupied Kashmir at 3 military installations :Indian foreign office


Is this for real?

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## mohsen

India says it's MIG21 has shot down one Pakistani fighter jet, and has lost one MIG21 along it's pilot, is there any actual proof to counter it?

https://www.mea.gov.in/media-briefi..._by_Official_Spokesperson_on_27_February_2019


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## Imran Khan

مودی صاحب مائینڈ نہ کرنا 
وہ ہمارے لڑکے کل سے کہہ رہے تھے کہ بھارتی طیارے گراۓ کیوں نہیں۔

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## Joe Shearer

R Wing said:


> I don't condone this --- but wasn't it your Army shelling/shooting civilians around this area up till last night?



How would I know? Did either DGMO talk to me? The news reports said that around dawn, a violent bombardment started from the Pakistani side, and numerous villagers have been injured and many more evacuated. Who started it? Can you give me any kind of authentic information? 



> By all accounts, Modi's maniacal antics before elections were totally unwarranted and extremely dangerous. I hope he/the frenzied India media/Hindutva psychopaths are all happy now.



First, you make a serious mistake if you think that every non-Hindutva Indian, every part of Indian media, and every Indian not a psychopath sighed heavily, and turned to the sports page when our constables were killed. 

There was genuine pain, and even in the minds and hearts of those of us who have genuine hopes of living in peace with the Pakistani people, there was disappointment at yet another demonstration of the use of 'non-state actors' by Pakistan as war formations. There was a genuine and well-founded thought wondering where this would stop.

Try to see what you have left undone, from the murderous attack on Mumbai onwards, and try to see that a little humility and introspection on the part of Pakistanis is overdue.


----------



## JonAsad

Maarkhoor said:


> This is not good, captured soldier must be treated well.....I don't like it even our religion don't allow us.


Relax - if i see an indian pilot i beat the hell out of him as well - its normal.
Good thing he is not dead -


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100699751585067008

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## Rusty

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Any source to back that up? There was only one crash site on Pakistan's side, angry Kashmiris flooded the area and began beating up the pilot before the army came in and rescued him.
> 
> Also F-16s were not used in this operation.


Pak Army, not only defending Pakistan, but defending Indians too

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## Dr. Strangelove

Sugarcane said:


> I know people are right angry, but these are times when faith and how much one follow the teachings is tested.


when people are angry morals usually take the backseat

plus u changed your username ?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

RPK said:


> F 16 also down with friendly ground fire


Lmao, chanda these were downed by Pakistan airforce not Pak Army AAGs.

Also Ill trust a fukin micronesian over an indian without any evidence!

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## arbit

Devil Soul said:


> Dont tell us about war & casualties, we have been fighting the war for the last 15 years with proxies & both the soldiers + civilians are battle harden, so what makes you think we r not ready .... but war bring nothing except pain & suffering.. i hope sense prevails here ...



We are just two anonymous guys on an online forum. Who knows what's coming. However the previous line from govt of India was that non military installations were targeted. This time in MEA briefing AVM accompanied the MEA official. This gives it a military dimension. 

The de escalation option was given earlier but your airforce fed up with all the taunts decided to attack military installations in morning. That was escalating. So military assets would now become legit targets.


----------



## Imran Khan

Windjammer said:


> Anyone can see this is no Delta Wing of a MiG-21.




it is mig-21 look again here clearly nose section of mig-21

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## koolio

KRAIT said:


> Yeah like we all know what happened yesterday.



What happened yesterday?


----------



## IceCold

Joe Shearer said:


> No, none, but what has been shown? There is a picture, and I can't figure out who is who.
> 
> The video apparently of the roughing up of a person by locals, another video apparently of an airforce officer named Abhi, blindfolded, tied with hands behind his back, and bleeding, are all there. In the second, the detenu asks, after giving his name, rank and serial number, if he is in the custody of the PA, but there is no answer on the video


There was no beating, no dragging of the officer by the Pakistan army, he was walked calmly towards the vehicle. As for tied hands, thats a standard procedure. You cant expect him to be freely roaming.


----------



## Dazzler

Feast your eyes, the wreckage of MKI...

Notice TVC pallets of the AL31P engine in the thired pic ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682539881164800

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## Ali Tariq

Joe Shearer said:


> Which speech? Where? When?


Here


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

mohsen said:


> India says it's MIG21 has shot down one Pakistani fighter jet, and has lost one MIG21 along it's pilot, is there any actual proof to counter it?


No evidence of any downed Pakistani jet, they claimed it was an F-16 when no F-16 was involved in the operation, There was only one crash site on the Pakistani side that was flooded by angry Kashmiris, the pilot was saved by soldiers. 

The other Indian jet crashed in IoK, their two pilots ejected and landed in Pakistan area and are currently in critical condition at CM hospital.

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## Max

Jackdaws said:


> So now we know which country has lynch mobs



What do you expect from angry Kashmiris? be thankful that military saved him instead of being silent spectator like Bharati forces usually does.

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## Maarkhoor

JonAsad said:


> Relax - if i see an indian pilot i beat the hell out of him as well - its normal.
> Good thing he is not dead -


Remember every war / fight have rules and rules must be respected, we do have pilots and soldiers.


----------



## Sugarcane

Dr. Strangelove said:


> when people are angry morals usually take the backseat



That's why we need to point out wrong and make them realize that they are going against teaching of their Prophet.

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## Sine Nomine

Joe Shearer said:


> Modi has ruined whose career? His own has got an intra-muscular injection of vitamin; his losing election prospects have been turned right around, and there is no way he will lose.
> 
> The next sentence is one I couldn't decipher.


The one of Abhi.
Something was expected, when BJP did started to use Indian Forces for political gain.


----------



## JonAsad

Mr.Cringeworth said:


> So indians claiming that abhi isnt indian i found an old interview of his on youtube please enjoy and tag those indians who were denying this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Chhatrapati
> @KRAIT @Viny @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Imran Khan @MastanKhan @Windjammer @jamahir
> Is this enough evidence for you now please accept that he is indian and we guys owned you in this whole fiasco.


----------



## doorstar

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


holier than thou as always!


holysinner said:


> We are muslims. Our Prophet has taught us to treat even our enemies knidly. I am saddened to see people hitting a POW. He was not resisting. No point of hitting him no matter what.


I don't think any of them were "muslamic scholars" like you, they just saw him as one of them rapists and child blinders from across the line who had come over to bomb them, and for all they knew he was one of them who bombed and killed 4 women and a child yesterday in the nearby area


----------



## Ali Tariq

Dazzler said:


> Feast your eyes, the wreckage of MKI...


Bhai, IK ne bola hai k donon Migs thay.


----------



## graphican

RPK said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440



Lol, Indian jets "loured by Pakistan" and once they crossed LOC, they were "gang-banged".

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## ZAC1

Oh teri villagers giving blows to his face


----------



## Bengal71

Imran Khan said:


> its unclear sir soem said su-30 and mig-21 other say mirage 2000 and mig-21 not clear yet .but one thing is sure one was single seater one was duel seater
> 
> 
> some people just cant digest opposite point of view .they want brainless sheep to be follow them



The photo I saw, the engine nozzle and the vertical stabilizer looks like mig-21.

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## Ghessan

those claiming a SU-30 and a mirage 2000 are down, do you have some credible evidence?


----------



## BHarwana

The Pakistani hero who scored the kill.

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## fitpOsitive

Joe Shearer said:


> Ah, impeccable logic.
> 
> Two wrongs make one right.
> 
> Got it.


Actually the villagers near LOC are already irritated due to daily firings.
So the reaction was natural. 
Thanks God army was there to save him.


----------



## JonAsad

Maarkhoor said:


> Remember every war / fight have rules and rules must be respected, we do have pilots and soldiers.


Tell that to the overly zealous everyday Awam -


----------



## Mr.Cringeworth

JonAsad said:


>


Literally indians are the scums of earth denying there kith and kin just to save face.
Who told them to provoke pakistan this is not afghanistan or bangladesh.

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## ice_man

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> This is the video I saw on twitter local kashmiris beating captured Indian pilot.
> @Areesh @Rafi @PaklovesTurkiye
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952



this is very very bad!!! should be discouraged.

sadly you can't tell the common man to stop.

but i am happy at how the army man tries to keep stopping them from hitting the pilot. the kashmiris on both side have alot of hate for india


----------



## Sine Nomine

Joe Shearer said:


> No, none, but what has been shown? There is a picture, and I can't figure out who is who.
> 
> The video apparently of the roughing up of a person by locals, another video apparently of an airforce officer named Abhi, blindfolded, tied with hands behind his back, and bleeding, are all there. In the second, the detenu asks, after giving his name, rank and serial number, if he is in the custody of the PA, but there is no answer on the video.
> 
> Now I am shown this picture, and am pleased to see three young men very well at ease with the world. Who are they?


Joe he is safe man.There may be wrong procedure adopted but atleast don't expect us to manhandle a man in uniform.

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## SABRE

Why a pilot extensively trained on & for Su-30MKI was given a MiG-21 to go against a formidable adversary? He is an IAF asset & they sent him for suicide. Its like bringing knife to a gun fight.

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## arbit

The Sandman said:


> Stop this chest thumping and thirst for more war haven't you got enough this month or probably for a whole year? Still there is time solve kashmir issue through talks listen to our PM he is still offering peace your gov is doing all of this for votes WAKEUP.



Have you seen the video released by aish e mohammad suicide bomber, who killed 40 of our soldiers. 
Watch it and then we will talk. 
Its not about Kashmir, its about jihadis being at war with every one on this planet. 
This is not the time of this discussion though. Lets save it for later.


----------



## Cash GK

Imran Khan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slapped this poor guy
> 
> 
> do you guys want robots ? yes we bad mouthed because since 1999 our airforce was sleeping awaked today morning . how can you justify salala drones and obl raid ? what we did when su-30 crossed after mumbai ? so bashing them was a reason and i am not apologist for PAF past . yes they are hero today


man he is soldier he was fighting for his nation like every other soldier. we are pakistanis and known for good behavior in war. please safe this guy and let the talk began..

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## A1Kaid

ice_man said:


> no F16s used none.
> 
> admit your defeat and de escalate or we will next time *capture modi himself*



 
Hilarious, would be a sight to see for the whole world. That would only come about in a total war situation if it would ever happen. But I think Modi is the type of man who would not allow himself to be captured alive.

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## Imran Khan

Bengal71 said:


> The photo I saw, the engine nozzle and the vertical stabilizer looks like mig-21.


Its confirmed mig 21 sir hope thunder killed it


----------



## mohsen

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> No evidence of any downed Pakistani jet, they claimed it was an F-16 when no F-16 was involved in the operation, There was only one crash site on the Pakistani side that was flooded by angry Kashmiris, the pilot was saved by soldiers.
> 
> The other Indian jet crashed in IoK, their two pilots ejected and landed in Pakistan area and are currently in critical condition at CM hospital.


why no picture of the other two pilots?!


----------



## Joe Shearer

IceCold said:


> No Sir! it was more than decade before my time.



Then, Sir, it is pointless for me to tell you about how my country's soldiers stepped in front of those who had been trying to kill them till an hour before, and protected them from an outraged population that wanted everyone of them killed, slowly, in lingering deaths, in revenge. There are still pictures of the horrific deaths of collaborators.

It is pointless for me to remind any Pakistani less than of sentient age at that time of what care was taken of Pakistani detenus by a poor nation, decades before we grew in economic prosperity and might have treated hospitality extended to 93,000 men, women and children as a routine matter. An ironic man might point out that it was a precipitous drop from sheltering 10 million men, women and children, so well worth the exchange. 

It is pointless also to remind you of the enormous effort spent to divert the attention of a vengeful government of a new state from insisting on war criminal trials, and to extricate a guarantee that no action would be taken, then or later, against alleged war criminals being released into Pakistani custody as a result of the Shimla Pact. 

I really don't feel apologetic about the honour and conduct of our soldiers, sailors and airmen. Not with regard to their conduct towards the soldiers, sailors and airmen of Pakistan.



> I tagged you in another thread, precisely for this.



I will look at it at the soonest. Thank you for tagging me.


----------



## RPK

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lmao, chanda these were downed by Pakistan airforce not Pak Army AAGs.
> 
> Also Ill trust a fukin micronesian over an indian without any evidence!


----------



## koolio

KRAIT said:


> Do you think we believe ISPR?



Bye bye, you wet dreams are destroyed, tell your thick prime minister dont mess with Pakistan, you will get shafted more if you want.


----------



## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632
Guys we arrested 3 pilots. where are other two? any update?

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## rott

Imran Khan said:


> Its confirmed mig 21 sir hope thunder killed it


Mig 21 vs JF17? Don't they have better planes?

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## Taimoor Khan

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100702928573267969
> This is a longer vid





Hahahahah. Someone tag Modi this. This is gold.



Jackdaws said:


> Congrats.
> 
> 
> So now we know which country has lynch mobs




It's just the AZAD (librated) kashmirs letting out their anger and frustration on Indian rat. The kashmiries on thw other side , under Indian occupation do not get this liberty.


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## Ahmet Pasha

DELETE THIS THREAD OR INDIAN MEDIA MAKE IT RANDI RONA

@LES MODS @WebMaster @The Eagle @waz

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## Rusty

Hindus need learn 


rott said:


> Is this for real?


Pakistan attacked locations that had no people to show that we could. We also locked onto military targets on the ground, but didn't engage. Again, to show that we could.

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## BATMAN

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


Dude Kashmiri are difficult to control when it comes to Indiand army, they have families in occupied Kashmir and almost each one of them has a family member victimized by Indian army.
We have difficult time to control these Kashmiris, other wise they would go fighting with Indian army on their own.

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## ziaulislam

casual said:


> Why would IAF send 3 different type of fighters in one sortie? That's just crazy. Also congrats on first air to air kills for jf17


My guess we baited them they sent mig21 to intercept ..shot down... with su30 for backup(took its time) shot with multiple Bvr fires



Ghessan said:


> those claiming a SU-30 and a mirage 2000 are down, do you have some credible evidence?


Nope..the only picture out so far is mig21



kingQamaR said:


> If this is true. Then Jf17 Alhamdulliah even more deadly than we all thought before


Hence why 100 jf17 are better than 18f16 or 12 typhoons


----------



## R Wing

smali183 said:


>



Yup, we got one of them for sure. Maybe one of the others too.


----------



## mshan44



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## Jackdaws

Max said:


> What do you expect from angry Kashmiris? be thankful that military saved him instead of being silent spectator like Bharati forces usually does.


Please spare me the sermon. If Indian forces were silent spectators they wouldn't have saved your chaps from Mukti lynch mobs.

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## WaLeEdK2

Champion_Usmani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632
> Guys we arrested 3 pilots. where are other two? any update?



I think dg ispr said they’re in a hospital.

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## dilpakistani

That the wreckage of Mig-29

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## ziaulislam

RPK said:


> Only Mig 21 down is confirmed more likely due to attack from ground rather than air engagement


Second will be only confirmed if pilot is alive other wise india will deny it


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## Talwar e Pakistan

mohsen said:


> why no picture of the other two pilots?!


They were in critical condition and were rushed in immediately; we will hear more about them by tomorrow.

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## Joe Shearer

I S I said:


> I wish that pilot was Joe the monkey. Would love to see him get beaten by a irritated mob.



I will sponsor your visa. I am 68, and cordially invite you to come over and show what you can do, one to one. So far, you have demonstrated an infinite capacity for electronic belligerence.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Prime Minister Imran Khan's speach today.







Captured Indian wing commander Abhinandan enjoying Pakistani hospitality. He has been introduced to something called 'toilet' and is recieving breifing in how to use it.

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## Mentee

rott said:


> Is this for real?



Yep straight from the horses mouth! However We are claiming surgical strikes at 6 points. How do you think the su30 and mig 21 ended up intruding Pakistani airspace and got shot down in the process ?

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## ziaulislam

dilpakistani said:


> That the wreckage of Mig-29


This is twin engine so could be either mig29 or su30
Likely mig29 due to its size

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## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

Ahmet Pasha said:


> DELETE THIS THREAD OR INDIAN MEDIA MAKE IT RANDI RONA
> 
> @LES MODS @WebMaster @The Eagle @waz


It's all over twitter. No point in deleting now


----------



## Joe Shearer

Avicenna said:


> And I stand by what I stated and have nothing further to say on that.
> 
> Hope you are enjoying your tea.



I am.

I don't let careless remarks made by brats disturb me. Your remarks are special, of course.

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## Vapnope

@Oscar @LeGenD 
Can you please put us out of this misery and confirm which planes were shot down?

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## Sneaker

mohsen said:


> why no picture of the other two pilots?!


That would be embarrassing to pak as they are ejected PAF pilots..


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## Indus Pakistan

Captured Indian fighter pilot.


----------



## rott

Mentee said:


> Yep straight from the horses mouth! However We are claiming surgical strikes at 6 points. How do you think the su30 and mig 21 ended up intruding Pakistani airspace and got shot down in the process ?


Do you know what aircraft PAF used against the SU and the MiG?

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## Telescopic Sight

Jackdaws said:


> Please spare me the sermon. If Indian forces were silent spectators they wouldn't have saved your chaps from Mukti lynch mobs.


Quick question : i am unclear as to where the mi g was shot down . How far is it from the loc , iib, etc.


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## dilpakistani

Mig-29 for sure.


----------



## alee92nawaz

I


ziaulislam said:


> This is twin engine so could be either mig29 or su30
> Likely mig29 due to its size


 Both were mig 21


----------



## Sneaker

Champion_Usmani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632
> Guys we arrested 3 pilots. where are other two? any update?



I guess they mistook downed PAF to be Indians.. IAF downed one F16/JF today..

It is Mig. More chance of crash that being shot down.


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## Sine Nomine

Sneaker said:


> That would be embarrassing to pak as they are ejected PAF pilots..


Have some shame.

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## __Jihadi__

I work in Malir Garisson and right now what I Am seeing is a preparation of war like situation and they have divided all logistics, tanks and men in to groups and currently all public offices are only dealing in millitary

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## Ahmet Pasha

Dont come here teachin us bout civility

When we have literally shoveled body parts of loved ones the past decade. Day after Day. These mind fuked cowcacola crazed monkeys sent terrorist in our country. Tens of thousands of people have died at their hands.

Also dont forget residents of AJK have families over on the other side too and get reports of Indian atrocities.

So offcourse they beat that low life scum


Avicenna said:


> Pak army was protecting the pilot from the locals.
> 
> Some irate locals don't exactly represent the whole nation.


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## Bilal Khan 777

For everyone who was undertaking personal attacks against me, i hope you have received your answer, and are aware about the Bison and Su interception. PAF Zindabad. Pakistan Paindabad.

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## Mentee

rott said:


> Do you know what aircraft PAF used against the SU and the MiG?


Pak china friendship's pride, the jf 17 Thunder scored its second and third kill

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## BATMAN

Clutch said:


> This war... We want to drink your blood.
> 
> I want REVENGE!



Don't expect any permission of counter attack from the pussies in parliament.


----------



## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

Joe Shearer said:


> I will sponsor your visa. I am 68, and cordially invite you to come over and show what you can do, one to one. So far, you have demonstrated an infinite capacity for electronic belligerence.


Haha 68 year old soldier. What you gonna do beat us with you cane ? GTFO .
Now let's see what will modi do


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## Arsalan




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## Arsalan 345

__Jihadi__ said:


> I work in Malir Garisson and right now what I Am seeing is a preparation of war like situation and they have divided all logistics, tanks and men in to groups and currently all public offices are only dealing in millitary



yes sir,fighter jets flying high near malir.


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## Areesh

Dazzler said:


> Feast your eyes, the wreckage of MKI...
> 
> Notice TVC pallets of the AL31P engine in the thired pic ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682539881164800



Confirmed MKI bro???


----------



## valkyr_96

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> For everyone who was undertaking personal attacks against me, i hope you have received your answer, and are aware about the Bison and Su interception. PAF Zindabad. Pakistan Paindabad.


 Alot of people need to apologize

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## Sneaker

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Have some shame.



No shame in telling the truth..


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## Salza

mohsen said:


> why no picture of the other two pilots?!



Idiot Pakistan didn't lost any plane. 

We shot down their 2 planes and both the pilots are in our custody.

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## IFB

SABRE said:


> Why a pilot extensively trained on & for Su-30MKI was given a MiG-21 to go against a formidable adversary? He is an IAF asset & they sent him for suicide. Its like bringing knife to a gun fight.



Why field a 40 year old plan in combat ? that is what i am puzzled...for CAP why did not they field their best...i mean we do have the numbers to patrol the LOC...instead they send a highly trained pilot on a museum piece and hand the enemy a gift like no other...Huge win for IK and modi is looking like a fool right now.


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## SecularNationalist

Exclusive footage of Indian Wing Commander, Abhinandan being beaten up by angry locals while Pakistani troops rescuing him to safety.I am not justifying what happened but you know the military personnel act professionally but you cannot control the population.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100699751585067008

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## Progressive Conservative

Can anyone confirm that the second IAF jet was shot down? There is footage all over the place of the Mig-21 but I have seen nothing of the SU-30?


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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Which fighter jet downed the indian aircrafts? JF 17 , F7 or F16. It would be fun if our nimble thunder has downed their MKI

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## Salza

Perhaps both were MIGs... Who cares.... We took the level on whole new level. 

This was the surprise we were talking about yesterday.

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## Hallian_Khan

Sneaker said:


> I guess they mistook downed PAF to be Indians.. IAF downed one F16/JF today..
> 
> It is Mig. More chance of crash that being shot down.


your guess is wrong so stop guessing n start facing reality

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## Joe Shearer

newb3e said:


> your coward bastards have murdered their women childern and old why do you expect them to respect you!



And the women and children killed by shelling on our side of the LOC don't exist? Or were they killed by our shelling ourselves?


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> No shame in telling the truth..



Then admit that you got butt f*cked by Pakistan

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## Sneaker

Telescopic Sight said:


> Quick question : i am unclear as to where the mi g was shot down . How far is it from the loc , iib, etc.


Mig, so I think he crashed... and pak confused their ejected pilot as Indian..


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## Enigma SIG

Serves him right. He wasn't hit by army personnel. Civilian population ko waise hi gussa tha.

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## Path-Finder

strange isn't it, the very nation that keeps saying "Pakistan ki sena" 'sena' 'sena' 'sena'. here we have that sena saving him!

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## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> Then admit that you got butt f*cked by Pakistan


didn't know paks were that kind of nation.


----------



## Muhammad Omar



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## Joe Shearer

IceCold said:


> There was no beating, no dragging of the officer by the Pakistan army, he was walked calmly towards the vehicle. As for tied hands, thats a standard procedure. You cant expect him to be freely roaming.



Excuse me, Sir, I am speaking about the videos I have seen. One of a pilot being beaten while on the ground, another of a standing man, blindfolded and tied, being asked who he was. The third, a still, is the one you showed most recently, that I replied as I did. I have not, as of now, seen any other.

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## Yousafzai_M

it cannot be MKI, both must be the obsolete Mig 21. I wonder why Indians use them and not MKI, which would have a much better chance of survival.


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## Oracle

its normal for him
in IOK , they area also treating indians like this

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## Mentee

Incase we lost one of our pilots inside India. The guy would have been maimed and dead by now.kudos to Pak military for showing professionalism

Rest assured this guy gonna be returned in one peace and mentally sound if not hanged by the military court.

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## I S I

Joe Shearer said:


> I will sponsor your visa. I am 68, and cordially invite you to come over and show what you can do, one to one. So far, you have demonstrated an infinite capacity for electronic belligerence.


Ok do invite..i will bring beef steaks for you as a gift.


----------



## Sneaker

Hallian_Khan said:


> your guess is wrong so stop guessing n start facing reality


Our reality is clear.. MIA pilot is safe and in pak custody. Hope your pilot is recovering in the hospital and will make it..


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

khusray IAF removed his service number from their website. Just saw the screenshot on TV. lol.

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## Telescopic Sight

Sneaker said:


> Mig, so I think he crashed... and pak confused their ejected pilot as Indian..



please see the proof of our pilot . Denying our soldiers is plain wrong. They have certainly downed a Bison and captured its pilot.
the second claim of a su 30 is yet to be seen.
SAME for the F16 iaf claims to have shotdown.


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## SABRE

IFB said:


> Why field a 40 year old plan in combat ? that is what i am puzzled...for CAP why did not they field their best...i mean we do have the numbers to patrol the LOC...instead they send a highly trained pilot on a museum piece and hand the enemy a gift like no other...Huge win for IK and modi is looking like a fool right now.



One reason - *speculation & a conspiracy theory* - would be that IAF actually wanted its MiG-21s to be shot down so they can extract more latest generation fighters like Rafale from Indian Government. To put more stress they put Su-30MKI pilot on it. This would prove that the pilot was good but the aircraft was not.

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## newb3e

Joe Shearer said:


> And the women and children killed by shelling on our side of the LOC don't exist? Or were they killed by our shelling ourselves?


PA saved your soldier salute karo and respect our boys!


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> didn't know paks were that kind of nation.



Have to do it with low lives like you

How doles it feel when you have two pilots in enemy custody as POW? 

How is the josh?


----------



## BATMAN

Path-Finder said:


> strange isn't is the very nation that keeps saying "Pakistan ki sena" 'sena' 'sena' 'sena', here have that sena saving him!


Pak army has hands tied by democrats in parliament.


----------



## Daghalodi

All this drama for Indian Elections!!!

Modi needs blood to win votes

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## R Wing

Joe Shearer said:


> How would I know? Did either DGMO talk to me? The news reports said that around dawn, a violent bombardment started from the Pakistani side, and numerous villagers have been injured and many more evacuated. Who started it? Can you give me any kind of authentic information?
> 
> 
> 
> First, you make a serious mistake if you think that every non-Hindutva Indian, every part of Indian media, and every Indian not a psychopath sighed heavily, and turned to the sports page when our constables were killed.
> 
> There was genuine pain, and even in the minds and hearts of those of us who have genuine hopes of living in peace with the Pakistani people, there was disappointment at yet another demonstration of the use of 'non-state actors' by Pakistan as war formations. There was a genuine and well-founded thought wondering where this would stop.
> 
> Try to see what you have left undone, from the murderous attack on Mumbai onwards, and try to see that a little humility and introspection on the part of Pakistanis is overdue.



I see your posts on here often, and I respect your views... but also disagree with them. 

I too yearn for peace, but I think the blame of non-state actors is just about equal (and I'm being generous.) Indian support to Baloch terrorists is well-documented and well-known. Are they any less violent? Do they kill and maim any less number of innocent civilians (mostly poor labourers --- soft targets.) Was Kulbashan in Pakistan on a picnic?
NATO needs you in the region as a buffer against growing Chinese influence so it turns a blind eye to *your* state sponsorship of terrorism, just as it does with your genocidal PM who was earlier on a visa blacklist for his role in the Gujrat massacre. Unfortunately, this has resulted in most of your population actually believing what is, in fact, untrue: that only Pakistan engages violent non-state actors and that only the ISI indulges in state sponsorship of terrorism (while Indian intel sits pretty and plants flowers for little kids.) The R&AW has just an illustrious and colorful a relationship with state sponsored terror outside of India's borders. Ask us --- we know. Ask the Sri Lankans --- they know. 

So, with this issue aside, let us talk about Kashmir. By the accounts of various sane Indian analysts and journalists, the situation in Indian-Occupied Kashmir is increasingly homegrown and its draconian nature is there for everyone to see. How can you expect an occupied people to live under oppressive laws and paramilitary rule without some kind of violent reactions from time to time? Does Pakistan support these reactions? I think so, but that doesn't change the realities of the occupation. 

Many sane voices in India called for introspection after Pulwama. I hope you can do some too.

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## __Jihadi__

Arsalan 345 said:


> yes sir,fighter jets flying high near malir.


yes hope things dont get worst

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## IceCold

Joe Shearer said:


> Excuse me, Sir, I am speaking about the videos I have seen. One of a pilot being beaten while on the ground, another of a standing man, blindfolded and tied, being asked who he was. The third, a still, is the one you showed most recently, that I replied as I did. I have not, as of now, seen any other.


The threads are all combined now so that video must have gotten in between some page but when i tagged you it was on that particular thread.


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## Yousafzai_M

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 542361
> 
> 
> View attachment 542362


Why was he beaten up????!!


----------



## Yaseen1

Such cowards pilots if i were at their place I would prefer death and would not have ejected .Indians should accept Islam now and quit hindu religion and idol worshipping in order to succeed in this life and after death it is humble request to all indians ALLAH ALMIGHTY HAS given them one more chance to come back to right path before final battle

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## NA71

Sneaker said:


> That would be embarrassing to pak as they are ejected PAF pilots..


beygairat ho simply koi aur hota tu dob marta....locals beating your pilot dragging in mud...and you are trolling ...pathetic


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## SABRE

Sneaker said:


> didn't know paks were that kind of nation.



Banu Brigade headed your way.


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## HalfMoon

This is what happens when politicians play politics with defence of the country. India is ill prepared for a war. India military is poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly fed.

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## I S I

Modi is responsible for this. Can't blame folks.

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## ziaulislam

Yousafzai_M said:


> it cannot be MKI, both must be the obsolete Mig 21. I wonder why Indians use them and not MKI, which would have a much better chance of survival.


Because mig21 is qyick reaction interceptor while su30 will take time

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## SecularNationalist

I S I said:


> Please admit F16 shot down if there's any.. Don't be like Indians.


*A very recent facebook status of air commodore retired kaiser tufail *
CONGRATULATIONS PAKISTAN AIR FORCE.

Absolutely brilliant performance by the PAF. Top class demonstration of professional abilities by pilots of No 9 Squadron. The most commendable part of the operation was the deadly response within 24 hours, as promised by the Air Chief. Also very encouraging is the fact that these were PAF's first-ever Beyond Visual Range (BVR) kills, achieved through masterly tactics which completely confused the enemy despite AWACS support. (DG ISPR misreported that F-16s were not employed). PAF lost no aircraft in the operation, so please don't believe the fake news churned out by Twitter and other social media.

Cheer up Modi. Cow Cola for you, I'll have a Pepsi. Bottoms up.

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## ice_man

azaad kashmir people hate india alot. our armed forces tried to stop the attack on him but the mob was bigger than a few soldiers.

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## Pakistani Aircraft

Naar-e-Takbir: Allahu Akbar

Alhamdu'lillah, all thanks to Allah Almighty for blessing the Pakistani Armed Forces, the Pakistani Government and the Pakistani nation so much respect and honour today.

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## macnurv

paritosh said:


> Can't deny that we have capabilities on both sides but there is not point in claiming victory over anything. The next few days will be tense, we might be staring at the first proper war in more than 40 years. Smart people on both the sides will be busy creating set-pieces and battle strategies right now, but the smartest would be busy figuring out an exit strategy.



Yes agreed, both sides are fully capable of this and more. Its about time India let go of the war hysteria, if there is a war both sides will loose. Its about time this hysteria is tampered down and work towards resolution of Kashmir and settle this issue for once and all.

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## indian my friend

Imran khan says 2 migs downed then howcome u guys have 3 pilots.
No talk about su 30mki.


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## Cookie Monster

Sneaker said:


> Our reality is clear.. MIA pilot is safe and in pak custody. Hope your pilot is recovering in the hospital and will make it..


U can keep guessing...the rest of us live in reality where evidence/proof is required not guesses. Pakistan has shown pics of the wreckage of the Indian jet and video/pics of ur pilot...while u guys have shown nothing...just tall claims

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## Hallian_Khan

Yousafzai_M said:


> it cannot be MKI, both must be the obsolete Mig 21. I wonder why Indians use them and not MKI, which would have a much better chance of survival.


mig 21 isnt twin engine. the plane in pic is twin engine which is either su 30 or mig 29


----------



## R Wing

rott said:


> Do you know what aircraft PAF used against the SU and the MiG?



It's not confirmed whether the second IAF plane was a SU30.

What is confirmed is that Pakistan used the JF17 to score both kills.

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## WAJsal

Joe Shearer said:


> You do realise that I speak from historical precedent?
> 
> 
> 
> They might. I would not like to state it as a given.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which speech? Where? When?


Done a while ago. 

Precedents are there but there are always factual difference between the two cases.

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## Windjammer

*
All the evidence points it to be an SU-30.*

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## R Wing

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> khusray IAF removed his service number from their website. Just saw the screenshot on TV. lol.



Chalo, then we don't have to treat this disowned man as a legal POW...

On a serious note, how low can the Indians stoop?!

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## Foxtrot Delta

Its okay he is safe pak Army saved him from angry Kashmiriz.


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## POPEYE-Sailor

KRAIT said:


> He was flying Mig 21 Bison.


What ever bro according to u, u killed 200 or 300 militants, We fkd ur 2 aircraft where u lost 2 pilots and as well mi-17 helicopter due to poor maintenance. 
So do u like this surprise or wana more ?? 
Next time dont cross LOC.


----------



## Pandora

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 542361
> 
> 
> View attachment 542362



This picture will haunt Indians for decades to come. Every time they will think about an attack they will see this picture and shiit their pants.

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## ice_man

indian my friend said:


> Imran khan says 2 migs downed then howcome u guys have 3 pilots.
> No talk about su 30mki.



who said 3 pilots? one pilot captured one burnt at crash

nothing else.


----------



## BATMAN

Sneaker said:


> Our reality is clear.. MIA pilot is safe and in pak custody. Hope your pilot is recovering in the hospital and will make it..



You don't seemed to be concerned a bit about your captured 3.
What's the back ground of your trust on us?


----------



## Shot-Caller

Indians are embarrassed today. After yesterday's chest thumping, the party got over too quick. So they are frustrated and they are sad. 

Now they are trying to play victim when yesterday they couldn't keep quiet after bombing trees. Stay humiliated and may be think about letting IOK kashimiris live peacefully. Karma has played its role and the world is seeing your wing commander getting kicked and punched by civilians.

There was a time world used to see visuals of innocent IOK kashmiris kicked and punched by your army. How karma has given it back to you is astonishing.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Ali Tariq said:


> Here



A VERY sensible speech.

There are obvious awkward questions, but this is not the moment to bring them up. 

Let us see what Modi's response is.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

R Wing said:


> Chalo, then we don't have to treat this disowned man as a legal POW...
> 
> On a serious note, how low can the Indians stoop?!


u should see then how they act heer where I am .Cheap as ****, stink so bad...Just ask anyone who works for JP Morgan. No Im not even kidding.
On top of that they go around malls s and store and pass comments on women and girls. Tru;y disgusting people. Fcukem


----------



## Agha Sher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100707541020012544

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## Max

Jackdaws said:


> Please spare me the sermon. If Indian forces were silent spectators they wouldn't have saved your chaps from Mukti lynch mobs.



you stopped them bcoz there would be mutual losses if war continues maybe we would have end up killing same amount of bengalis and bharatis.

We saw how indian forces acted when kashmiri were being bullied. its all over social media.


----------



## Skyliner

Now for always.
Doodh manga tha kheer de the
Kashmir manga tha cheer de the.

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## macnurv

Mentee said:


> Incase we lost one of our pilots inside India. The guy would have been maimed and dead by now.kudos to Pak military for showing professionalism
> 
> Rest assured this guy gonna be returned in one peace and mentally sound if not hanged by the military court.



Highly unlikely we will prosecute them, they are POW's and will be treated humanly. Locals are angry because of constant shelling on civilians, all locals cared was that he is an Indian soldier. 



Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> khusray IAF removed his service number from their website. Just saw the screenshot on TV. lol.


They can remove what ever they want, there is something known as Timeback machine on internet cataloging all public listed information.

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## Joe Shearer

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> The one of Abhi.
> Something was expected, when BJP did started to use Indian Forces for political gain.



Bluntly, Abhi will be returned, and re-deployed. His CO may not be happy that he got shot down, but that won't materially affect his career. 

As for the use of the Indian forces for political gain, is this not something predicted earlier?

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## F86 Saber

ice_man said:


> who said 3 pilots? one pilot captured one burnt at crash
> 
> nothing else.



Please listen to DGISPR's Presser, he mentions that one pilot is in custody and another one injured so he is in CMH. If you consider the third one who got burned and died, that makes 3 pilots, if it was 2 Bisons there should have been two pilots.

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## indian my friend

ice_man said:


> who said 3 pilots? one pilot captured one burnt at crash
> 
> nothing else.


What abou su30 or it was mig?


----------



## Rasengan

Joe Shearer said:


> I will sponsor your visa. I am 68, and cordially invite you to come over and show what you can do, one to one. So far, you have demonstrated an infinite capacity for electronic belligerence.



Calm down uncle. I know these events are shocking, I mean yesterday you were chest pumping and ejaculated prematurely, and today we put the IAF in its place, so please take care of your health.

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## SecularNationalist

Oracle said:


> its normal for him
> in IOK , they area also treating indians like this


Indians would have killed him on sight .They are way more worse.

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## R Wing

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> u should see then how they act heer where I am .Cheap as ****, stink so bad...Just ask anyone who works for JP Morgan. No Im not even kidding.
> On top of that they go around malls s and store and pass comments on women and girls. Tru;y disgusting people. Fcukem



I spent four years in New York and found most of them to be pretty creepy. Also interviewed for JP. Small world!

Anyway, back on topic --- there are screenshots of the record before they erased it.

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## Indus Pakistan

The lying scumbag's are claiming Pakistan lost a aircrat and their stupid public will believe this. Then as a sidenote they mention India lost a pilot.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ilot-missing-in-action/videoshow/68184432.cms

But the good news is international media is reporting on the downing of Indian fighter jets.








*Pakistan 'captures Indian pilots after shooting down two jets in dogfight over Kashmir' *


*Two planes shot down over Kashmir border*
*Pakistan claims to have two pilots held*
*Sources: jets shot down in 'four-on-four' dogfight*
*Both countries dispute each other's claims*
Pakistan has claimed to have shot down two Indian jets and captured two pilots after a dogfight over Kashmir, igniting fears of an all-out conflict between the nuclear-armed neighbours.

Tensions remain high on the Asian Subcontinent where tens of thousands of Indian and Pakistani soldiers face off along the disputed Kashmir boundary.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...r-strikes-indian-territory-demonstrate-right/

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## ziaulislam

Sneaker said:


> Our reality is clear.. MIA pilot is safe and in pak custody. Hope your pilot is recovering in the hospital and will make it..


Glade they didnt disowned.the guy but they couldnt he had YouTube video too frim india today 
They will disown the second pilot if they can


----------



## AyanRay

BATMAN said:


> You don't seemed to be concerned a bit about your captured 3.
> What's the back ground of your trust on us?



So two migs were shot (according to IK) which had 3 pilots? Right.


----------



## ice_man

indian my friend said:


> What abou su30 or it was mig?



our ISPR person said MIG 21 so we believe him must be a mig 21 bison


----------



## aziqbal

Fighting kids in Kashmir has made Indian soft 

This is what happens when you fight men

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## Arsalan 345

i want to ask a question.we said we hit two indian fighter jets.how many pilots are in our custody? the pilot in the custody was flying mig-21 and the pilot in hospital? where is his fighter jet?


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## Agha Sher

F86 Saber said:


> Please listen to DGISPR's Presser, he mentions that one pilot is in custody and another one injured so he is in CMH. If you consider the third one who got burned and died, that makes 3 pilots, if it was 2 Bisons there should have been two pilots.



The burnt pilot was from the Mi-17 crash in India, if I am not mistaken. 

A Mi-17 crash: confirmed
A Mig-21 downed: confirmed

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## HydNizam

SABRE said:


> One reason - *speculation & a conspiracy theory* - would be that IAF actually wanted its MiG-21s to be shot down so they can extract more latest generation fighters like Rafale from Indian Government. To put more stress they put Su-30MKI pilot on it. This would prove that the pilot was good but the aircraft was not.



That is too big a price to pay for little or no gains. The Rafale deal was already beginning to clear from Indian media. This was a grave mistake from iaf war room guys. MIG 21 was probably a sitting duck anyway but this pilot does not seem any good either


----------



## Joe Shearer

BATMAN said:


> Dude Kashmiri are difficult to control when it comes to Indiand army, they have families in occupied Kashmir and almost each one of them has a family member victimized by Indian army.
> We have difficult time to control these Kashmiris, other wise they would go fighting with Indian army on their own.



I think I answered this. Otherwise I will get back to you; there are some pertinent points to be made.


----------



## SecularNationalist

Skyliner said:


> Now for always.
> Doodh manga tha kheer de the
> Kashmir manga tha cheer de the.


Ab dekho kon kis ki cheeer raha hai lol
Baatein chodna koi ain se seekhe lolz

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RPK said:


> one MiG 21 Bison was down pilot was captured
> One F16 down


Chutiye than how do we have 2 indian pilots?

And where is the F-16?

Gaand marwa k bahanay bana rahay ho

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## Areesh

Telescopic Sight said:


> please see the proof of our pilot . Denying our soldiers is plain wrong. They have certainly downed a Bison and captured its pilot.
> the second claim of a su 30 is yet to be seen.
> SAME for the F16 iaf claims to have shotdown.



Some Indians are admitting two pilots are captured


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

macnurv said:


> Highly unlikely we will prosecute them, they are POW's and will be treated humanly. Locals are angry because of constant shelling on civilians, all locals cared was that he is an Indian soldier.
> 
> 
> They can remove what ever they want, there is something known as Timeback machine on internet cataloging all public listed information.


the screen show showed the page saying Record not found, lol. hashtag phudduqoum alert


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

KRAIT said:


> F-16 shot down. Awaiting confirmation. War has started.


Your jets have been falling off the sky like flies for "technical reasons". At least you have a convincing reason this time to tell yourselves.

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## Rasengan

Joe Shearer said:


> Excuse me, Sir, I am speaking about the videos I have seen. One of a pilot being beaten while on the ground, another of a standing man, blindfolded and tied, being asked who he was. The third, a still, is the one you showed most recently, that I replied as I did. I have not, as of now, seen any other.



What do you expect? 3 people died in that village from Indian shelling. The soldiers protected him otherwise he would of become a chappal kebab. It must be tough, jumping up and down and now reality has set in.


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100710139974295552


----------



## ChTahir

*The warning comes a day after Prime Minister Imran Khan approved military response as tensions rise over Kashmir issue.India vowed a "jaw-breaking response" to a suicide bombing in the disputed Kashmir region last week claimed by Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) armed group.*


----------



## Cash GK

Rusty said:


> Hindus need learn
> 
> Pakistan attacked locations that had no people to show that we could. We also locked onto military targets on the ground, but didn't engage. Again, to show that we could.

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## AfrazulMandal

2 migs lost then?

Is the IAF also gone nuts? Why are they sending ancient migs? Modi ad RSS has infected even the armed forces.


----------



## mshan44



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## Joe Shearer

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> Haha 68 year old soldier. What you gonna do beat us with you cane ? GTFO .
> Now let's see what will modi do



No, kick your overgrown arse and send you home tied in a knot. 

It's not about Modi; if you want to get personal, sure, I'm game.



I S I said:


> Ok do invite..i will bring beef steaks for you as a gift.



You will better advised to try the local ones; they are superior.



newb3e said:


> PA saved your soldier salute karo and respect our boys!



Not soldier, but pilot.

Respect is earned, not demanded. But what would you know about that?

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Champion_Usmani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632
> Guys we arrested 3 pilots. where are other two? any update?


we gave them to ethnic afghan bachabaz. they like dark meat.

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## SecularNationalist

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> the screen show showed the page saying Record not found, lol. hashtag phudduqoum alert


On this forum as well as on other internet places there is a silence from indians since 11 am


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Guy's I can't believe this but it can't get better then this. From PR point of view Pakistan has come out on top. We got the all important photo ops. We got the optics. We got the pictures o Indian captured pilot and Indian downed jet. That is slap in face for every Hindutwa. And Modi. Most of the international media is clearly reporting "Indian fighters shot down".

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## aziqbal

This is no easy feat 

This is a massive deal 

Downing 2 enemy aircraft is so hard 

Even more if one was a FLANKER 

How highly trained are our pilots ? 

Mashallah these guys are aces

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## Srinivas

Just wait for it, this is not over !


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## Great Janjua

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> the screen show showed the page saying Record not found, lol. hashtag phudduqoum alert


Not to worry.....


----------



## Enigma SIG

Sneaker said:


> Our reality is clear.. MIA pilot is safe and in pak custody. Hope your pilot is recovering in the hospital and will make it..


Yeah yeah. Pics or it didn't happen mate. Bugger off now.

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## Ali Tariq

Joe Shearer said:


> if you want to get personal, sure, I'm game.


Doesn't suits you


----------



## Sine Nomine

Joe Shearer said:


> Bluntly, Abhi will be returned, and re-deployed. His CO may not be happy that he got shot down, but that won't materially affect his career.
> 
> As for the use of the Indian forces for political gain, is this not something predicted earlier?


I wish that man is returned and flies as soon as possible.
Yes, it was but not it's usage at that level.

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## RPK

Imran Khan said:


> Its confirmed mig 21 sir hope thunder killed it


Ground Fire



Srinivas said:


> Just wait for it, this is not over !


Its over mate India did't want to escalate

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## DESERT FIGHTER

mohsen said:


> India says it's MIG21 has shot down one Pakistani fighter jet, and has lost one MIG21 along it's pilot, is there any actual proof to counter it?
> 
> https://www.mea.gov.in/media-briefi..._by_Official_Spokesperson_on_27_February_2019

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## Stealth



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## blackuday

Mirage 2k

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Hallian_Khan said:


> your guess is wrong so stop guessing n start facing reality


He is right. IAF cannot be shot down. They just crash, sometimes twice in a day.Let him drink the cool aid and get off to the scenes of migs crashing. Even the blind can see that the plane was falling down like a fireball. Screw these losers and liars.

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## JonAsad

Indus Pakistan said:


> Prime Minister Imran Khan's speach today.


Our PM taking things too lightly- we have the upper hand - he should force Indians on negotiation table not request -


----------



## nomi007

condemn able act by people
but appreciatively Pakistani soldiers protecting him

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## aziqbal

Look how Allah has graced the face of the enemy 

Isn’t it now time they give up thier fight ?

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## Thewarrior009

Good job pakistan , all support from morocco

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## newb3e

Joe Shearer said:


> No, kick your overgrown arse and send you home tied in a knot.
> 
> It's not about Modi; if you want to get personal, sure, I'm game.
> 
> 
> 
> You will better advised to try the local ones; they are superior.
> 
> 
> 
> Not soldier, but pilot.
> 
> Respect is earned, not demanded. But what would you know about that?


yeh cutie pie!! we gave you respect this morning i am sure now you wont beat your chest like baboons ever again!!

and dont forget yo vote for modi the messiah!

good day!


----------



## Srinivas

RPK said:


> Ground Fire
> 
> 
> Its over mate India did't want to escalate



This is not over, they started it and it will end when India wants. Right now GOI will not back down. Causalities are a part of the war and the important part is how it ends.

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## Waqar Rashid

They can't remove this. Downloadit before they delete it. Here is the proof of his indentity


----------



## Cookie Monster

Enigma SIG said:


> Serves him right. He wasn't hit by army personnel. Civilian population ko waise hi gussa tha.


Their anger is expected...and it would be a bit hypocritical of me to say that they(civilians beating him) shouldn't have done that bcuz I'm here in US safe and sound while these ppl have to face Indian shelling and other such threats to their lives. However I would still like to say that as per human decency and what Islam teaches us...u only fight the enemy for as long as he is fighting u. Once the enemy has been disarmed/injured/incapacitated u take him prisoner and treat him decently. These ppl shouldn't have beat him up.


----------



## ProudPak

Windjammer said:


> The two Indian aircraft shot down by PAF were one SU-30 and a MiG-21.
> The kills were achieved by S/L Hasan and F/L Buzdar. from No 9 squadron.


Any info on the SU30...pictures etc please bro

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## Bilal Khan 777

Allah hu Akbar. Congratulations to CAS, Imran Khan, and all of the Pakistani Nation. PAF 9 Sqn successfully interdicted "top of the line" aircraft of the IAF, only to completely ruin their morale, tactics, and superior AEW, BVR, AESA, and Datalink capability for a long time. Tu Shaheen Hay....Tu Shaheen Hay... Bravo my boys. This is the PAF I flew in, and this is the PAF we raised.

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## ice_man

where is the picture and video of the second pilot captured


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://www.facebook.com/siasat.pk/posts/10155994567531766







































































The kit found on him. maps etc

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## Enigma_

To be honest he should go home and thank whatever deity he believes on for living.


----------



## JonAsad

RPK said:


> *Ground Fire*


Ground fire, balakot tree strikes back, Spy pigeons into the engine you will come up with ridiculous excuses but to accept the truth that it was shot down - typical Indians - you even disowned your own pilot - pathetic -


----------



## graphican

*Here you go, IAF has designed a new emblem for their flags and the new slogan "IAF - Blinded by political hatred"!*

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## American Pakistani

Mashallah. Pakistan want more blood of bharti terrorists. Kill these m0f0s.

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## ProudPak

RPK said:


> One F16 down on friendly fire


Another bullshit


----------



## I S I

Joe Shearer said:


> You will better advised to try the local ones; they are superior.


Locals just kicked your squadron leader's butt.

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## Enigma SIG

Cookie Monster said:


> Their anger is expected...and it would be a bit hypocritical of me to say that they(civilians beating him) shouldn't have done that bcuz I'm here in US safe and sound while these ppl have to face Indian shelling and other such threats to their lives. However I would still like to say that as per human decency and what Islam teaches us...u only fight the enemy for as long as he is fighting u. Once the enemy has been disarmed/injured/incapacitated u take him prisoner and treat him decently. These ppl shouldn't have beat him up.


Maybe he pulled his gun on the civvies; we don't know.


----------



## SABRE

HydNizam said:


> That is too big a price to pay for little or no gains. The Rafale deal was already beginning to clear from Indian media. This was a grave mistake from iaf war room guys. MIG 21 was probably a sitting duck anyway but this pilot does not seem any good either



That's why I said *"conspiracy theory." *But whatever the case there now a big question on IAF decision making.


----------



## RPK

Srinivas said:


> This is not over, they started it and it will end when India wants. Right now GOI will not back down. Causalities are a part of the war and the important part is how it ends.


India don't want to escalate, thats why mig went for interception


----------



## Goku-kun

aziqbal said:


> This is no easy feat
> 
> This is a massive deal
> 
> Downing 2 enemy aircraft is so hard
> 
> Even more if one was a FLANKER
> 
> How highly trained are our pilots ?
> 
> Mashallah these guys are aces


indian nuisance again of shooting down our f-16 but no evidence as always to base their claim of ravaged body of the jet..two mig-21s sended to hell and both pilots are in custody.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

JonAsad said:


> Our PM taking things too lightly- we have the upper hand - he should force Indians on negotiation table not request -


No. He is aware the entire world is watching. These are words of a statesman. This is exactly what we want. Shoot Indian aircraft down thus clearly coming out on top and then acting in a cool, restrained, calm manner put out hand of peace. In front of world Pakistan should look like a responsible state.

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## Bilal Khan 777

Viny said:


> PAF CAP's mission was to keep eyes open at minimal cost, so that when operational requirements comes in, they have the needfull resources, else this could go on for long period and will start to hit PAF capacity and reserves even without going on war. They where right to a great extent.
> 
> 
> 
> DGISPR finally accepted it the NWFP and not the one next to LOC. Go and check his last briefing.



I am sure you will think twice before posting further nonsense.


----------



## Enigma SIG

blackuday said:


> Mirage 2k



Can't really figure it out at this angle; seems like an elevator on the top right.


----------



## macnurv

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> I wish that man is returned and flies as soon as possible.
> Yes, it was but not it's usage at that level.


Highly unlikely, his career is pretty much finished now.

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## AsianLion

Great Victory by Pakistan, Can not believe Pakistan shot two Indian Jets, Su-30 and Mig-21. Man that's brilliant...as whole of Pakistan is beginning to hear the big news, its awesome. 

Heard Pakistani Awam caught the Indian pilot, and beat the shit out of him before handing over to Pak Army Personnel.

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## ProudPak

I S I said:


> Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.


They dont use steel in aircraft


----------



## Dazzler

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Allah hu Akbar. Congratulations to CAS, Imran Khan, and all of the Pakistani Nation. PAF 9 Sqn successfully interdicted "top of the line" aircraft of the IAF, only to completely ruin their morale, tactics, and superior AEW, BVR, AESA, and Datalink capability for a long time. Tu Shaheen Hay....Tu Shaheen Hay... Bravo my boys. This is the PAF I flew in, and this is the PAF we raised.



Remarkable aggression shown by the PAF!

Feeling the pride!

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## JonAsad

Srinivas said:


> This is not over, they started it and it will end when India wants. Right now GOI will not back down. *Causalities are a part of the war* and the important part is how it ends.


Yup casualties are acceptable as long as they are not your father, brother or sons - so much bravado fly your keyboard and drop keys on us will ya-



RPK said:


> India don't want to escalate, thats why mig went for interception


your captured pilot is a Su30 pilot -

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## I S I

ProudPak said:


> They dont use steel in aircraft


It was a meme reference for F sake.

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## SABRE

Mentee said:


> Incase we lost one of our pilots inside India. The guy would have been maimed and dead by now.kudos to Pak military for showing professionalism
> 
> Rest assured this guy gonna be returned in one peace and mentally sound if not hanged by the military court.



Not if he crashed in IoK & was rescued by the locals.


----------



## mshan44

love the news its on cnn as well

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/27/india/india-pakistan-strikes-escalation-intl/index.html


----------



## graphican

*A moment in time... *

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## Indus Pakistan

RPK said:


> India don't want to escalate


You started it. What you mean you don't want to escalate? PM IK made a offer post Pulwama to you guys but warned we will 'retaliate' if you do anything foolish. And you choose to escalate. This is what you get in return.

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## NA71

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Allah hu Akbar. Congratulations to CAS, Imran Khan, and all of the Pakistani Nation. PAF 9 Sqn successfully interdicted "top of the line" aircraft of the IAF, only to completely ruin their morale, tactics, and superior AEW, BVR, AESA, and Datalink capability for a long time. Tu Shaheen Hay....Tu Shaheen Hay... Bravo my boys. This is the PAF I flew in, and this is the PAF we raised.



Thanks to Allah only He has the power of ultimate victory. And He saved us ..Alhamdolilah

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## ice_man

dilpakistani said:


> Mig-29 and Mig 21 on Cap sortie are down.... two pilots were on mig 29 and 1 pilot was in Mig-21 all three survived and arrested




where are the pictures of the other 2 arrested? ISPR said 2 arrested one Abhi and other guy in CMH and injured.

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## mudas777

Now hold the pilot till Modi elections are over. When Iran took US embassy hostages and they failed to rescue them it costs Carter the presidential elections as he was made to look week. Use the pilot the same way and bring him on camera every week so Indian public can see, we got their monkey and not a lot Modi can do, until his ratings falls like leaves. He wanted to look strong now that's not the case and not a single damn thing he can do.

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## TheNoob

Stealth said:


> View attachment 542434



Oh hell! DUDE.
I REALLY MISSED YOUR EDITS!


----------



## CriticalThought

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Allah hu Akbar. Congratulations to CAS, Imran Khan, and all of the Pakistani Nation. PAF 9 Sqn successfully interdicted "top of the line" aircraft of the IAF, only to completely ruin their morale, tactics, and superior AEW, BVR, AESA, and Datalink capability for a long time. Tu Shaheen Hay....Tu Shaheen Hay... Bravo my boys. This is the PAF I flew in, and this is the PAF we raised.



Sir, doesn't 9th squadron use F-16s? And per DG ISPR no F-16s were used in the ops?

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## RPK

Indus Pakistan said:


> ou started it. What you mean you don't want to escalate? PM IK made a offer post Pulwama to you guys but warned we will 'retaliate' if you do anything foolish. And you choose to escalate. This is what you get in return.


Indian target is not PAF or pakistan. Just preemtive attack on JEM



JonAsad said:


> our captured pilot is a Su30 pilot -


But he on MIG-21 Bison

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## Cookie Monster

Enigma SIG said:


> Maybe he pulled his gun on the civvies; we don't know.


That's just a guess...as far as the footage goes it shows no such action by him. Logically speaking that wouldn't be a wise move on his part to pull out a gun since Pak armed forces were out searching for him. Pulling out his pistol(with very limited ammo) wouldn't have saved him. It would've made the situation worse for him bcuz armed forces would then have to shoot him in retaliation. His best chance of survival and an eventual return to India lies in peacefully getting arrested by PA, which will treat him professionally as per the rights of PoW according to Geneva convention.

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## Indus Pakistan

_"Modi what did I say about retaliation?"
_

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## dexter

Alhamdulilah, another milestone achieved and now we have new ACES to be proud of !
Well done Pakistan army and Pakistan Air force No. 9 squadron.
You have fulfilled your nation's hope and made us proud.
May ALLAH S.W.T keep you all safe and give success in every engagement with enemy.
Pakistan Zindabad !!
Meanwhile, Indian media right now is still refraining from telling their public the truth.

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## CriticalThought

Dazzler said:


> Remarkable aggression shown by the PAF!
> 
> Feeling the pride!



Can your sources confirm the use of JF-17s and downing of SU-30 + Mig-21?


----------



## aziqbal

Bloody hell what a story 

My phone has died 2 times on my new phone 

So much update and messages 

Alhamdulillha

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## War Thunder

These ignorant retards must be feeling very special beating up a hopelessly defenseless pilot who already must be in terrible shock for having to eject in hostile territory and now forsaken and abandoned by his own government and delusional morons of a public who want to argue over him having moustaches.

Have some shame little coward keyboard warriors, this guy just almost gave his life to defend your shamelessly delusional retarded faces...

I feel sorry for the guy, he was only doing his job, not knowing what retarded folk he was endangering his life for.


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Dazzler said:


> Remarkable aggression shown by the PAF!
> 
> Feeling the pride!



It is not aggression at all. It shows superior tactics, immense training, planning, and stellar discipline, ensuring that you control the air battle from start to finish. On the other hand, you have "them" who jettison stores over Ladhakh and call it Surgical strike.

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## Thewarrior009

India can't prove that there is one f16 shotdown, not even one picture
in other side there is a lot of pictures of the indians garbage burning on the ground
i really like the skills of the pakistan's pilots , they put the bait and wait for the indians fighters to come directly to the ambush
Glory to pakistan

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## graphican

*Captured Indian pilot being shifted to a safe location. "Pak Foaj - Zindabad" slogans reaching skies, almost literally!*
*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100715766331121664*

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## manlion

more information on Abhinandan Varthaman , he is Tamil from Chennai Tambaram Airbase

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## Sine Nomine

As usual some Pakistani uploaded that video and now Indian social media warriors have started using this video for abusing Pakistan.


----------



## maverick1977

When are the official lock on videos of all air to air and air tovgrousnvvieoss are coming out ?


----------



## Sneaker

BATMAN said:


> You don't seemed to be concerned a bit about your captured 3.
> What's the back ground of your trust on us?


3, there are not 3 only 1. Other is your own pilot. You guys will bury the story of the 2nd pilot in coming days..


----------



## Dazzler

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> It is not aggression at all. It shows superior tactics, immense training, planning, and stellar discipline, ensuring that you control the air battle from start to finish. On the other hand, you have "them" who jettison stores over Ladhakh and call it Surgical strike.



I heard when its not raining, there are training?

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## A1Kaid

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 542431
> View attachment 542432




Looks like Glock-26, good compact concealed carry weapon.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

RPK said:


> Indian target is not PAF or pakistan. Just preemtive attack on JEM


You intruded into Pak airspace. As PM Imran Khan had warned we will not accept any Indian intrusion and there will be retaliation. That is exactly what you got.

And this is not false news like your channels are reporting. You can see pictures of downed Indian jets. And we have the captured Indian pilot. That is inctrovertible proof of 'retaliation'. No 'sirjikal' strike. But fact.


----------



## ProudPak

I S I said:


> It was a meme reference for F sake.


Sorry bro my bad.

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> 3, there are not 3 only 1. Other is your own pilot. You guys will bury the story of the 2nd pilot in coming days..



Sharam kar BC

Indians have started to admit that there are two pilots


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440

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## Bilal Khan 777

Dazzler said:


> I heard when its not raining, there are training?



Yeah and there is no Shandy now either, so the boys have to put up with the chik chik of the ladies at home.

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## Yaseen1

It is better pilot is captured by us otherwise he may be killed by indians and they would have regarded it as suicide like it happened yesterday we should keep this pilot and preach him Islam


----------



## Rusty

Srinivas said:


> Just wait for it, this is not over !


if Modi ji is smart, it is over.

Both sides will declare a cease fire.
Pak will return the pilots as a good will gesture.
Years later the IAF pilot and the Pak army jawans who saved him will meet in a cafe in London and laugh about it over some tea.

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## aziqbal

Anyone from Attock 

The amount of flying last night was insane 

Karma was launching aircraft after aircraft 

Hard to sleep on GT road 

I think JF17 was deployed from Kamra 

Erieye was also in the air

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## Areesh

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> It is not aggression at all. It shows superior tactics, immense training, planning, and stellar discipline, ensuring that you control the air battle from start to finish. On the other hand, you have "them" who jettison stores over Ladhakh and call it Surgical strike.



Proud of PAF and Pakistan's armed forces

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## thunderr

If they were tejas they would have fell down itself but let tejas fly from the ground - when will we see that day????


----------



## Sneaker

ziaulislam said:


> Because mig21 is qyick reaction interceptor while su30 will take time



PAF tried to ingress near LOC. Only available interceptors there are Migs..

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## Mahmood uz Zaman

JF-17 Thunder achieved it's first kill by destroying 1 SU-30 MKI and 1 Mig-21.





PAF makes history with first SU-30 kill as well as JF17 Thunder.

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## hussain0216

Indus Pakistan said:


> Guy's I can't believe this but it can't get better then this. From PR point of view Pakistan has come out on top. We got the all important photo ops. We got the optics. We got the pictures o Indian captured pilot and Indian downed jet. That is slap in face for every Hindutwa. And Modi. Most of the international media is clearly reporting "Indian fighters shot down".



Its all about narrative 

And we have absolutely BODY SLAMMED them

We have a singing dancing monkey to parade

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## khanmubashir

This could be a scam
.

.



.

.
.
Maybe iaf and paf brass were in league to market jf17 ..
And iaf brass would take its cut 

As after iaf rejecting of tejas bhakts said iaf is corrupt 

So corrupt people can do anything

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## Bilal Khan 777

maverick1977 said:


> When are the official lock on videos of all air to air and air tovgrousnvvieoss are coming out ?



Right now is duty hour, and PAF is on full alert to stop any further Indian attempts to invade the Free skies. One they back off, full analysis and HUD videos will be available. Nobody lets go of such remarkable achievements.



Sneaker said:


> PAF tried to ingress near LOC. Only available interceptors there are Migs..



Meri jaan, because at 1000 hours, baki team chai pee rahi thee.

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## I S I

ProudPak said:


> Sorry bro my bad.


All fine.

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## N.Siddiqui

Mi-17 Crash in IOk...the kill was huge.

*6 IAF Officers, Civilian Killed In Chopper Crash In J&K's Budgam: Police*


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mil...ys-police-report-1999950?pfrom=home-topscroll

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## Crystal-Clear

KRAIT said:


> Gullible Pakistanis.


abhi nandan kumar

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## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> Sharam kar BC
> 
> Indians have started to admit that there are two pilots
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440



No thanks. Will take word of our MEA over some unverified twitter guy. MEA clairifed 1 PAF and 1 IAF aircraft down.


----------



## RPK

Indus Pakistan said:


> You intruded into Pak airspace. As PM Imran Khan had warned we will not accept any Indian intrusion and there will be retaliation. That is exactly what you got.


Do you think IAF not capable of successful interception PAF and IAF send two mig bison for F16?


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

aziqbal said:


> Anyone from Attock
> 
> The amount of flying last night was insane
> 
> Karma was launching aircraft after aircraft
> 
> Hard to sleep on GT road
> 
> I think JF17 was deployed from Kamra
> 
> Erieye was also in the air



Minhas will surely be busy right now.


----------



## Rasengan

Areesh said:


> Proud of PAF and Pakistan's armed forces



This song is perfect, we literally penetrated these cockroaches with no vaseline.

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## khanmubashir

Jf17 the little jet engine that could


----------



## graphican

RPK said:


> India don't want to escalate, thats why mig went for interception



If India didn't want to escalate, India should've sent bicycles. Why bother sending mig 21s at all?

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## AsianLion

Look at him.....Pakistani Awam caught the Indian Wing Commander, Abhinandan, and beat the shit out of him before handing over to Pak Army Personnel.

So much anger on the Indians.


----------



## Beast

Chinese radar and Chinese missile. Congrat!

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

#maasadkay


----------



## Muhammad Omar



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## Bilal Khan 777

CriticalThought said:


> Sir, doesn't 9th squadron use F-16s? And per DG ISPR no F-16s were used in the ops?



Just let go of the details for right now.

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## CriticalThought

Mahmood uz Zaman said:


> JF-17 Thunder achieved it's first kill by destroying 1 SU-30 MKI and 1 Mig-21.
> View attachment 542437
> 
> PAF makes history with first SU-30 kill as well as JF17 Thunder.
> View attachment 542436



What is your source?

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## War Thunder

RangeMaster said:


> This is called professionalism.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100696340886106112




They are talking about hunting the other guy who they saw ejecting beside him.
So that means he was flying a Mig 29 or another two seater jet.

While the pilot of Mig 21 was found in injued state next to the Mig 21 crash site already and there are videos of that.

I speak Potowhari and this language is very similar...

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## Goku-kun

CriticalThought said:


> Can your sources confirm the use of JF-17s and downing of SU-30 + Mig-21?


is there any such thing as smokeless engine of f-16s because jf-17s's engines are not smokeless and the video indian media is spreading and pointing out our F-16 and their mig-21 both emanating smoke..


----------



## Cash GK

Srinivas said:


> This is not over, they started it and it will end when India wants. Right now GOI will not back down. Causalities are a part of the war and the important part is how it ends.


hahaha. then you don’t know us.. you guys have lost 10 mix jets in last two months. 3 jets today and one hali.. aby abb mar k deka lol


----------



## CHACHA"G"

mohsen said:


> why no picture of the other two pilots?!


One Sources said one other serious (life threatening) injures in CMH …. Next 48 hours critical for him . Other one dead. and one alive ( we already showed him) …… 
Other source said both were Mig-21 .. total 2 Pilates . One in custody , other on in CMH with heavy(but not life threatening) injures . 

1-Mig-21 conform hit piolet alive with us
2nd bird was one of these 3 (Mig-2i , Mig-29 , Su-30) one piolet in cmh other dead (if Mig-29 or Su-30)

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## Comet

SecularNationalist said:


> *A very recent facebook status of air commodore retired kaiser tufail*
> CONGRATULATIONS PAKISTAN AIR FORCE.
> 
> Absolutely brilliant performance by the PAF. Top class demonstration of professional abilities by pilots of No 9 Squadron. The most commendable part of the operation was the deadly response within 24 hours, as promised by the Air Chief. Also very encouraging is the fact that these were PAF's first-ever Beyond Visual Range (BVR) kills, achieved through masterly tactics which completely confused the enemy despite AWACS support. (DG ISPR misreported that F-16s were not employed). PAF lost no aircraft in the operation, so please don't believe the fake news churned out by Twitter and other social media.
> 
> Cheer up Modi. Cow Cola for you, I'll have a Pepsi. Bottoms up.



As per my knowledge (and recently raised by a friend)
_Pakistan cannot use F-16s in disputed or airspace outside of Pakistan as per contract with US. They are purely for air defense within mainland Pakistan or to bus used on ground targets that have crossed the border_

Can any one confirm?


----------



## Sneaker

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Meri jaan, because at 1000 hours, baki team chai pee rahi thee.



Or SUs are based in central and east India and not near LOC.. they can not be used for interception as such?


----------



## Amigator

ziaulislam said:


> Because mig21 is qyick reaction interceptor while su30 will take time


And Mig 21 can also fire BVR


----------



## Rusty

RPK said:


> Do you think IAF not capable of successful interception PAF and IAF send two mig bison for F16?


Coulda-Woulda-Shoulda

No point crying over spilled milk now. 

Lets de-escalate and work towards building a better tomorrow for both of us.

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## RPK

graphican said:


> If India didn't want to escalate, India should've sent bicycles. Why bother sending mig 21s at all?


Mig is in CAP operation


----------



## koolio

India media ge gand phatt gaye and thier stupid public who are hungry for war, but moti is a crazy man and I would not be surprised if there are further duels in the coming hours, moti will do anything to win elections, if moti backs off now his political career is finished, Pak must stay vigilant until the Indian elections are over.

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## Indus Pakistan

hussain0216 said:


> Its all about narrative


Bingo. As of yesterday the narrative was entirely skewed, But today it literally is a KO for India. And it's being reported across the globe. The captured Indian pilots face is proof of that. It's PR knockout.

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## ilia

Source: pak defence forum member!

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## mshan44

IND: WAR! 
PAK: NO! 
IND: WAR WAR WAR! 
PAK: (Shoots down 2 Indian fighter jets, arrests 2 pilots) OK SERIOUSLY, WAR?
IND: Ok ok fine. No war.

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## RPK

Rusty said:


> Coulda-Woulda-Shoulda
> 
> No point crying over spilled milk now.
> 
> Lets de-escalate and work towards building a better tomorrow for both of us.


Nothing spiled it always cat mouse game


----------



## War Thunder

Arsalan 345 said:


> but we have wreckage of mig-21.



The pilot of the wreckage was also found next to it. there is a video on that.
this guy wsnt flying that.


----------



## Shot-Caller

Muhammad Omar said:


> View attachment 542438


Fighter aircraft 676 left. Two shot down by Pakistan and one fell itself in India out of fear.


----------



## Cash GK

graphican said:


> If India didn't want to escalate, India should've sent bicycles. Why bother sending mig 21s at all?


world is saying pak shot down two indian jets. we don’t care their years model or specific.. it is enough for us


----------



## Spy Master

Sneaker said:


> I guess they mistook downed PAF to be Indians.. IAF downed one F16/JF today..
> 
> It is Mig. More chance of crash that being shot down.


lol you indians are so fcking cowards...we are giving you proofs, unlike your fake super surgical strikes..this is how we roll...in broad daylight, unlike you sneaking in at night...!

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> No thanks. Will take word of our MEA over some unverified twitter guy. MEA clairifed 1 PAF and 1 IAF aircraft down.



MEA guy ran away without answering questions

That shows the confidence your MEA had

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## graphican

RPK said:


> Mig is in CAP operation



Looks like they have outlived their ability. RIP Mig21 - RIP Indian agression.


----------



## Riz

RPK said:


> Nothing spiled it always cat mouse game


Oey tu sharam sa mara mhi abhi tak???


----------



## Haris Mansoor

Windjammer said:


> Pride of Pkistan, S/L Hassan who shot down the MiG-21
> 
> View attachment 542367


F-16 badge on his chest. So F-16 was used it mean....

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## M.AsfandYar

aziqbal said:


> Anyone from Attock
> 
> The amount of flying last night was insane
> 
> Karma was launching aircraft after aircraft
> 
> Hard to sleep on GT road
> 
> I think JF17 was deployed from Kamra
> 
> Erieye was also in the air


They landed in Nur Khan. Two came in, i think (not sure, sun reflecting off it) second one was missing a missile. 2 fuel tanks and 4 missiles, 2 under wings and 2 on wing tips.

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## SHAH07

IK was saying 2 migs... but I personally think 1 Mki and 1 mig


----------



## SecularNationalist

UmairP said:


> As per my knowledge (and recently raised by a friend)
> _Pakistan cannot use F-16s in disputed or airspace outside of Pakistan as per contract with US. They are purely for air defense within mainland Pakistan or to bus used on ground targets that have crossed the border_
> 
> Can any one confirm?


Have some respect for a senior officer like kaiser tufail who is still involved with PAF even after the retirement.He is not lying.

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## POPEYE-Sailor

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100687002167578624


Pak Army officially Says that we made a targets of your ammo storage palace where we want to show u that we are also power full stop playing game and lets together sit on chair and have a talk... 

But u guys okat pettte as usual lost 2 aircraft 2 poilts and (1 mi-17 helicopter due of excellent maintenance).


----------



## Cash GK

JonAsad said:


> Our PM taking things too lightly- we have the upper hand - he should force Indians on negotiation table not request -


he is not taking things light. it is his way to deal people. inside he is monster. this is what i have seen last 22 years:. he never forgive pakistan’ enemies. he will forgive his personal enemy but not the enemy of pak


----------



## indian my friend

Your own prime 


Mahmood uz Zaman said:


> JF-17 Thunder achieved it's first kill by destroying 1 SU-30 MKI and 1 Mig-21.
> View attachment 542437
> 
> PAF makes history with first SU-30 kill as well as JF17 Thunder.
> View attachment 542436


Minister said 2 mig 21 downed no talk of su 30 are u dumb to false claim?


----------



## Areesh

N.Siddiqui said:


> Mi-17 Crash in IOk...the kill was huge.
> 
> *6 IAF Officers, Civilian Killed In Chopper Crash In J&K's Budgam: Police*
> 
> 
> https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mil...ys-police-report-1999950?pfrom=home-topscroll



February continues to be extremely bad for India

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## Sneaker

Spy Master said:


> lol you indians are so fcking cowards...we are giving you proofs, unlike your fake super surgical strikes..this is how we roll...in broad daylight, unlike you sneaking in at night...!


what proof? who is the second pilot? ISPR initially claimed 3 and then settled for 2 and now 1?



Areesh said:


> MEA guy ran away without answering questions
> 
> That shows the confidence your MEA had



Information is sufficient. Question and answers are not required now.


----------



## Imran Khan

Whoever killed it the day is ours

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## Enigma_

Beauty of having an indigenous aircraft. The US can't dictate to us as to when we can actually use the damn thing.

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## Ghessan

please quote credible news.


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## ice_man

War Thunder said:


> These ignorant retards must be feeling very special beating up a hopelessly defenseless pilot who already must be in terrible shock for having to eject in hostile territory and now forsaken and abandoned by his own government and delusional morons of a public who want to argue over him having moustaches.
> 
> Have some shame little coward keyboard warriors, this guy just almost gave his life to defend your shamelessly delusional retarded faces...
> 
> I feel sorry for the guy, he was only doing his job, not knowing what retarded folk he was endangering his life for.




please understand daily INDIA shells azaad kashmir these guys are super charged.


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> Information is sufficient. Question and answers are not required now.



DG ISPR said 2 pilots. The second one would be revealed soon.

Would humiliate you then

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## Spy Master

Sneaker said:


> what proof? who is the second pilot? ISPR initially claimed 3 and then settled for 2 and now 1?
> 
> 
> 
> Information is sufficient. Question and answers are not required now.


Lol..first you were asking where is the first pilot...we showed you...the other pilot is being treated, let him heal, we will give you that also!


----------



## Army research

blackuday said:


> Mirage 2k


It has canards so no


----------



## Flash_Ninja

ice_man said:


> where are the pictures of the other 2 arrested? ISPR said 2 arrested one Abhi and other guy in CMH and injured.



maybe in bad condition or requiring surgery

probably dont want a photo of him all f**ked up incase it sends the wrong message


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Sneaker said:


> Or SUs are based in central and east India and not near LOC.. they can not be used for interception as such?



you have lost your upgraded Bisons, lets admit to this much, and go cry somewhere.

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## Dazzler

@Tipu7 nice one

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## Lincoln

IK said 2 Migs, as much as I would like to believe one was Sukhoi as earlier claimed by members way before IK's address, reliable source is needed.


----------



## Daghalodi

KRAIT said:


> MEA released statement. One PAF aircraft shot down. Indian Mig 21 Bison pilot is captured.



Here is your captured mig 21


----------



## Comet

SecularNationalist said:


> Have some respect for a senior officer like kaiser tufail who is still involved with PAF even after the retirement.He is not lying.


I meant no disrespect. Just asking a simple question. Can we, or can we not, use F-16s in Kashmir theater or in offensive actions?


----------



## razgriz19

ziaulislam said:


> We shouldnt push it ..as it seems they want to deescalate
> 
> 
> Honestly this is not beating. He was saved from anger but yeah this was bad
> 
> 
> And what do we gain by terrorist attacks..it gives us no startegic benefits...yes supporting huryat conference is probably done by Pakistan but militancy support is not helping
> 
> So its upto you believe your fake news (proven today event hiw they were denying) or impose war that will lead to MAD



I agree with you. I think we have proven the point we were trying to make all along. 
If their side wants to de-escalate things then we should do it as well and release their pilot after interrogation.

I just flew out of Karachi to Toronto yesterday. Sounds like I came out at the right time or else I would've gotten stuck in this mess.


----------



## Telescopic Sight

So NO J17's used. Just F16 vipers and great tactics by the paf pilots


----------



## Avicenna

blain2 said:


> That looks like a Mig-29 tail. Can members confirm?



Looks like an old pic of a MiG-27 which crashed.

Nothing to do with today's events.


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## ghazi768

koolio said:


> India media ge gand phatt gaye and thier stupid public who are hungry for war, but moti is a crazy man and I would not be surprised if there are further duels in the coming hours, moti will do anything to win elections, if moti backs off now his political career is finished, Pak must stay vigilant until the Indian elections are over.


Yes, I agree, their credibility and even future prospects are on the line, these are just opening rounds in a war.

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## Cash GK

indian my friend said:


> Your own prime
> 
> Minister said 2 mig 21 downed no talk of su 30 are u dumb to false claim?


90 percent people don’t know much about the spec.. world is saying pak shot down two indan jets. it is enough for us

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## Imran Khan

Paf shoot them if thunder did it expect orders


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## Dazzler

As per Indians, this American f-16 was the one they had shot down thinking it belonged to the PAF



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0aHvwKX4AIhvVN.jpg:large

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## graphican

Aren't Indians wishing 27th Feb had never came in their life - at all? What a "ho ho ha ha" by Indians on 26th Feb and what a misery they are carrying on 27th.

And somebody tell Adnan Sami to say "Jay Hind" a little more "patriotically"... its time when Indians want to hear it more than ever. An ex-Paksitani may be able to heal their tarnished self respect.

*Tariq Fateh thought he would make Indians feel better - and is ending making them $hit in their pants more.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100444734764535809


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## Longhorn

Srinivas said:


> This is not over, they started it and it will end when India wants. Right now GOI will not back down. Causalities are a part of the war and the important part is how it ends.


You sound shrill.
Are you Gen Bakshi in disguise?

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## Rasengan

The Indian military is a bunch of studio warriors. All that chest pumping and bravado may work in the media but when you step up, PAF will slap you down to bring those cockroaches back to reality. Our missiles were coated in premium cow lard and they found there target. This punk can now enjoy Pakistan prison food, beef biryani.

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## Black Bird

Paroosi mulk.... pura pura Hesaab le hy. Pakistan Zindabad


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## NA71

ilia said:


> Source: pak defence forum member!



Why you are burning...we hit indian not iranians. My bro.

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## Bilal Khan 777

KRAIT said:


> Brigade HQ was the target of PAF. Escalation is increasing.



If it was a target, you would be lifting bodies and doing funerals for 2 weeks.

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## Indus Pakistan

Peace. Peace. Peace. Pleaj! After getting slapped in the face cries India.

*Afraid India says it does not want 'further escalation' with Pakistan*
*




*

NEW DELHI (Dunya News) - New Delhi on Wednesday has sought to ease soaring tensions in a fear of Pakistan’s retaliation.

Referring to Pulwama, Indian Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj said such attacks are a “grim reminder for the need for all the countries to show zero tolerance to terrorism and take decisive actions against it”.

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## Fawad alam

check this one​




__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## graphican

Cash GK said:


> world is saying pak shot down two indian jets. we don’t care their years model or specific.. it is enough for us



Pakistan hasn't shot two Indian Mig-21, but it has shot down Indian bervado, Indian high-claims and Indian arrogance all in one shot. Indian moral rests in peace today.

As a Bonus, Pakistan has two of Indian soldiers - now India must become a good puppy to get them back. Rather a very good puppy!

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## Indus Pakistan



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## CHACHA"G"

*Above are 2 pics for aircraft down in Pakistan ……. Pleas help me out here are those 2 engine backs(tails, exhaust) *
@Windjammer , @HRK , @DESERT FIGHTER , @Path-Finder , @graphican , @

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## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> DG ISPR said 2 pilots. The second one would be revealed soon.
> 
> Would humiliate you then



People have put screen shots of ISPR statement all over in the forum.. be my guest and take a look.
I will concede once you present 2nd pilot. If nothing comes out by EOD, will you concede f16/JF17 being downed?


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## untitled

Daghalodi said:


> Here is your captured mig 21


It is not captured but pulverized


----------



## AndrewJin

surgika strika by Hindustan again?

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## N.Siddiqui

Get slapped...a bloody nose for India, not just the pilot.


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## Daghalodi

Congratulations Pakistan

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## Indus Pakistan

THe Indian pilot captured is senior officer and his father is retired Air Marshal.

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## BERKEKHAN2

ice_man said:


> who said 3 pilots? one pilot captured one burnt at crash
> 
> nothing else.


Your Dg ispr said one is being treated at CMH and another one is with them


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## hussain0216

Indus Pakistan said:


> Bingo. As of yesterday the narrative was entirely skewed, But today it literally is a KO for India. And it's being reported across the globe. The captured Indian pilots face is proof of that. It's PR knockout.
> 
> View attachment 542440



You know its important when white people are talking about it

Yesterday was nothing for anyone except indians

Today whole world is talking about Pakistan shot down 2 indian planes in air combat 

The monkey pilot os being shown across the World 

Its a slam dunk

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## Telescopic Sight

Correction . NO FC 1 anywhere in the picture.
Only F16s from the no.9 sq. Great tactics.
Again , no Thunder anywhere in this clash.

Facebook post by Kaiser Tufail says it emphatically. He says the ISPR was totally wrong.

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## Sneaker

Spy Master said:


> Lol..first you were asking where is the first pilot...we showed you...the other pilot is being treated, let him heal, we will give you that also!



didn't know he needed healing before you can take a photo of his badge/service record. Anyway, will concede once you present that..


----------



## __Jihadi__

at the check post of malir garison I greeted the jawan and said yr bohat zabardast kam kara h aj PAF ne 
jawan replied bs dua krien agey bhi Allah aese hi himmat de or ham inhein khatam kr dien

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> People have put screen shots of ISPR statement all over in the forum.. be my guest and take a look.
> I will concede once you present 2nd pilot. If nothing comes out by EOD, will you concede f16/JF17 being downed?



I would accept there is no second pilot

It doesn't mean JFT/F16/C130/Erieye were shot down

Use your brain bharati

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## blueazure

chuthiye indians like major gaurav arya is using this video to show cruelty of pak armed forces

_*infact, had it not been for pak army, this monkey would have been lynched *_

such scum we have as neighbors

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## ThinkLogically

Areesh said:


> Sharam kar BC
> 
> Indians have started to admit that there are two pilots
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100693806284861440


We have more than 230 Migs. So no problem about a lonely ambush.


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> I would accept there is no second pilot
> 
> It doesn't mean JFT/F16/C130/Erieye were shot down
> 
> Use your brain bharati



Guessed as much.. but atleast you are forthcoming on that..


----------



## Areesh

ThinkLogically said:


> We have more than 230 Migs. So no problem about a lonely ambush.







Sneaker said:


> Guessed as much.. but atleast you are forthcoming on that..



But then you would be humiliated so everything is fine for me


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## Telescopic Sight

ThinkLogically said:


> We have more than 230 Migs. So no problem about a lonely ambush.


And are you ok with 230 POW pilots ?

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## Areesh

Telescopic Sight said:


> And are you ok with 230 POW pilots ?



They are okay with 2 POW for now

Might be happy with 228 more too


----------



## Mani2020

It has been confirmed that the aircraft that shoot down indian jet was indeed JF-17





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## ThinkLogically

Telescopic Sight said:


> And are you ok with 230 POW pilots ?


Come on, this won't get repeated every time. I was mentioning the numbers to show that we have the advantage in case of attrition.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

hussain0216 said:


> Its a slam dunk


BBC, CNN, CNBC, Times, New York Times etc. Rest of the world takes their cue from these media outlets. As you said 'slam dunk'.

Modi got made b*atch.

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## Telescopic Sight

Areesh said:


> They are okay with 2 POW for now
> 
> Might be happy with 228 more too


Great tactics by the paf,but I see this turning out expensive to both sides . I don't see Modi slowing down now.

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## Daghalodi

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> If it was a target, you would be lifting bodies and doing funerals for 2 weeks.



Pakistan did the right thing and acted Maturely!!

So Proud of my armed forces

Pakistan Zindabad

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## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> But then you would be humiliated so everything is fine for me



Humiliation for what? Bombing Balakot? or crashing over P0K?


----------



## bafxet

indian my friend said:


> Your own prime
> 
> Minister said 2 mig 21 downed no talk of su 30 are u dumb to false claim?


Alright come on you tell us which two aircrafts of your got shot. Hahaha


----------



## ThinkLogically

Areesh said:


> They are okay with 2 POW for now
> 
> Might be happy with 228 more too


Perfectly Ok, if we take down one F16 for every loss of ours as happened this time. How many aircrafts do you have to match this attrition?


----------



## Agha Sher

CHACHA"G" said:


> *Above are 2 pics for aircraft down in Pakistan ……. Pleas help me out here are those 2 engine backs(tails, exhaust) *
> @Windjammer , @HRK , @DESERT FIGHTER , @Path-Finder , @graphican , @



Seems to be a Mig-21 Bison. Look at the tail section.

https://www.google.dk/url?sa=i&rct=...aw3jzvYHAMLFyzNJ3-ZqTYec&ust=1551355394552707

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## ice_man

Storm bombardier said:


> Your Dg ispr said one is being treated at CMH and another one is with them



yes one captured one in CMH and one dead at crash


----------



## ilia

nahmed71 said:


> Why you are burning...we hit indian not iranians. My bro.


Burning!? 
I am on the side of muslims and trying to say that there is no need to creat such news


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## Imran Khan

indian my friend said:


> Your own prime
> 
> Minister said 2 mig 21 downed no talk of su 30 are u dumb to false claim?


Bhai jo tum bhego gay wohi maary gay na ab gher ja ker su30 ko nhi bol sakty ke chalo

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## alee92nawaz

Mahmood uz Zaman said:


> JF-17 Thunder achieved it's first kill by destroying 1 SU-30 MKI and 1 Mig-21.
> View attachment 542437
> 
> PAF makes history with first SU-30 kill as well as JF17 Thunder.
> View attachment 542436


2 migs man , no su30.


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## Cash GK

graphican said:


> Pakistan hasn't shot two Indian Mig-21, but it has shot down Indian bervado, Indian high-claims and Indian arrogance all in one shot. Indian moral rests in peace today.
> 
> As a Bonus, Pakistan has two of Indian soldiers - now India must become a good puppy to get them back. Rather a very good puppy!


agreed 200/%


----------



## Slides

Telescopic Sight said:


> Correction . NO FC 1 anywhere in the picture.
> Only F16s from the no.9 sq. Great tactics.
> Again , no Thunder anywhere in this clash.
> 
> Facebook post by Kaiser Tufail says it emphatically. He says the ISPR was totally wrong.



Link the post? It was a JF-17 that shot don at least one of the Migs.


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## BERKEKHAN2

ice_man said:


> yes one captured one in CMH and one dead at crash


If only one wreckage fell in ajk how come you have three


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Servce record hi gaib!


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

Beast said:


> Chinese radar and Chinese missile. Congrat!



Pakistani Pilots....

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## Imran Khan

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> As usual some Pakistani uploaded that video and now Indian social media warrielors have started using this video for abusing Pakistan.


Its mean unki jal rahi hai


----------



## aziqbal

When the enemy’s of Allah hear the name of Pakistan Air Force they should be afraid

Our boys set the standard today

This is going down in history

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## graphican

*Proud pilot who scored JF-17s kill against India*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100724900086595599

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## Fawad alam

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Exclusive footage of Indian Wing Commander, Abhinandan being beaten up by angry locals while Pakistani troops rescuing him to safety <a href="https://t.co/9BgdWwwZ1p">pic.twitter.com/9BgdWwwZ1p</a></p>&mdash; TQ (@TabeshQ) <a href="

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100699751585067008">February 27, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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## Muhammad Omar

Indian Air force Veteran Pilot on PAF's action against IAF

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## Max

Terry52 said:


> What do you think how many days will Wing commander Abhinandan will spend in Pakistan ?
> View attachment 542450



He is aggressor, he intruded into our airspace, he should be tried in military court. No?


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## CHACHA"G"

Agha Sher said:


> Seems to be a Mig-21 Bison. Look at the tail section.
> 
> https://www.google.dk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjn7r6979vgAhUI26QKHerSC-UQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/27/indian-air-force-mig-21-bison-shot-down-by-pakistan-air-force-jet/&psig=AOvVaw3jzvYHAMLFyzNJ3-ZqTYec&ust=1551355394552707


Most probably , but I am curious about those 2 engine tails ,, because both look different (both faced different type of damage )…… May be one of the pic is some internal part of engine...….


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## Imran Khan

He will go back home

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Moody uncle has promised a rescue operation at the time and place of his choosing.

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## ice_man

Storm bombardier said:


> If only one wreckage fell in ajk how come you have three



yes all lies and fake news. this pilot is not yours. we will keep him forever. enjoy


----------



## arbit

aziqbal said:


> This is going down in history



Damn right. 
By the way the Pakistani jet shot down was indeed F-16. Confirmed.

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## TheNoob

First, he will get treatment.
Then, he'll be held captive. 

Thats about it.
Until someone comes up with a political solution later down the line.

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## RoadRunner401

*Dawn*
The state of Pakistan, the government of Pakistan, the Armed Forces of Pakistan and the people of Pakistan have always conveyed a message of peace to India, and the route to peace goes through the way of 'dialogue'. Both countries have nuclear capabilities, but war is actually the failure of policy, which India needs to understand.

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## Indus Pakistan

*Pakistan news latest: Live updates after India jets are shot down and Imran Khan calls for 'wisdom and sense' *

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/wor...n-jets-over-kashmir-in-dramatic-a4077546.html

Pakistan has shot down *two Indian* Air Force jets in a dramatic escalation of the conflict in Kashmir. 

The two Indian warplanes were shot down by Pakistan's air force after they crossed the boundary between the two rivals in the disputed territory of Kashmir.


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## Flash_Ninja

However long gangus are going to act immature and uncivilised 

if after this they are still baying for war then the answer is 'indefinitely'


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

Prisoner of War.
Will be treated with respect as per norms.

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## Foxtrot Delta

He and othere will be returned to india ofcourse. According to geneva convention and international united nations law


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## CHACHA"G"

He is POW,,,,,, In the end, He will go back home (India) and most probably IAF will retire him...….. So this is end of his service...

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## macnurv

Muhammad Omar said:


> Indian Air force Veteran Pilot on PAF's action against IAF
> 
> View attachment 542454



Steps to deescalate must begin immediately from Indian side. However Pakistan must reveal more details about types of jets taken down, if it was really SU30 its a really big deal for JF17. As for returning the pilots, for now Pakistan will hold them in custody and will be handed over to India at an appropriate time of our choosing.


----------



## Joe Shearer

R Wing said:


> I see your posts on here often, and I respect your views... but also disagree with them.



Thank you for opening as you did, but in view of the obnoxious manners of some of your compatriots, and the sheer vulgarity of their posts, it feels necessary to remind decent members like you of what I stand for, and to inform the others of what is and is not permissible in their remarks directed to me.

I have, like many millions of Indians, not thousands, stood for peace with Pakistan, and for normal relations. We had no compulsion to do so; for us, it is not tied to our justification for our existence, or to a constructed reason for our specific existence. It is inherent; our culture is peaceful, and has been for thousands of years. After the carnage of partition, we had excellent relations, or at least, relations that were not hostile and toxic, for 18 years. I leave it to those of you who are educated and who know how to sift myth from reality to decide what ensued, and who originated it.

Kashmir is a special matter; discussing its rights and wrongs is not appropriate here. You will understand if I leave it on one side.

During my own efforts at doing what one individual can do to build better relations, I have encountered the reasonable, decent people who might oppose some views proposed to them, who might agree with others, but who, above all, could put things together in a rational manner. I have also encountered religious fanatics, in whom their religiosity mingled with their nationalism in a toxic cocktail that is difficult to separate into its components. Finally, there is that curse of the internet, the kiddy-crowd, that has nothing better to do but to vent its frustration and social restrictions by striking grossly vulgar postures on online fora.

It is impossible to conduct any conversation with the second and third varieties; over time, I have come to realise that they are incorrigible, although age might temper the third group. 

I say this as a prelude to answering your observations below. 



> I too yearn for peace, but I think the blame of non-state actors is just about equal (and I'm being generous.) Indian support to Baloch terrorists is well-documented and well-known. Are they any less violent? Do they kill and maim any less number of innocent civilians (mostly poor labourers --- soft targets.) Was Kulbashan in Pakistan on a picnic?



First, non-state actors in Indian usage refers to literally thousands of young people from Punjab and Pakhtunistan who have been brought up with certain very negative impressions about their neighbouring country, its citizens, and its cultural attributes, including the religion that the majority follow in that country. In contrast, if we examine, without prejudice, the usage by our neighbours in Pakistan, it is Pakistanis who are seen to be acting against the interests of Pakistan, NOT, by any stretch, Indians indoctrinated into believing that Pakistan was an existential threat and recruited, trained, motivated, paid and armed before being introduced into Pakistan. The equivalent to those that Pakistan calls non-state actors are those militants within India who want a wider degree of independence from state control than the state deems admissible: the tribals, the north-eastern factions, the Naxals, and so on. Not a single one of these has been placed at the doorstep of Pakistan and its agencies, in spite of the written testimony of your own army officers, not to mention the research and findings of foreign academic investigators.

Second, it is unfair to take the doings of the last five years and put it in the balance of the doings of the other side for the last seventy years. There were restrictions and outright bans on any kind of monitoring, forget about intervention, on the part of our intelligence agencies. These are well-recorded; you do not have to take my word for it, although on this, I am peculiarly well-informed.



> NATO needs you in the region as a buffer against growing Chinese influence so it turns a blind eye to *your* state sponsorship of terrorism, just as it does with your genocidal PM who was earlier on a visa blacklist for his role in the Gujrat massacre. Unfortunately, this has resulted in most of your population actually believing what is, in fact, untrue: that only Pakistan engages violent non-state actors and that only the ISI indulges in state sponsorship of terrorism (while Indian intel sits pretty and plants flowers for little kids.)



I found this the most painful part of your note.

From the time that the two nations were formed, Pakistan flung itself into the arms of the western bloc, while India tried its own quixotic brand of foreign policy of equi-distance from the two blocs. Pakistan joined the Baghdad Pact, that later became CENTO, a parallel of NATO, Pakistan joined the south-east Asian bloc known as SEATO; do look up the dates and also do look up the policies of these two defence unions. And do refresh your memory about Pakistan's former role as a vital ally for NATO, and so declared, at the precise times that we were under interdict due to our policies and principles. 

You might remember, or if you look up the annals, you may read for yourself that the hostility of the period of American attitudes to India, that plummeted to its lowest point under Nixon and his ubiquitous aide Kissinger, recovered only very, very slowly under Clinton, Bush and Obama. Again, it is not reasonable to equate the favour that India (and India's buying power) suddenly started to find with the west for the last twenty years with the unbroken support that Pakistan has enjoyed, in spite of the most egregious behaviour, over seventy years.

During this period, Pakistan was stuffed full of aid and cash. The economic miracle that Pakistan went through, all the while that its generals twitted Indians with the observation that they would travel in Mercedes cars while India's option was Maruti 800s. If you give him half a chance, my compatriot @Nilgiri will flood you with graphics explaining how injected aid led to economic improvement for Pakistan. 

This happened not once but several times. 

I put it to you that NATO being on the side of India is a pitifully recent phenomenon, and we should remember what little has flowed from that relationship. As a contrast to what military and developmental aid that Pakistan got.



> The R&AW has just an illustrious and colorful a relationship with state sponsored terror outside of India's borders. Ask us --- we know. Ask the Sri Lankans --- they know.



Again, as I might point out, this was recently restored. Even earlier, it was started very, very recently, in contrast to the



> So, with this issue aside, let us talk about Kashmir. By the accounts of various sane Indian analysts and journalists, the situation in Indian-Occupied Kashmir is increasingly homegrown and its draconian nature is there for everyone to see. How can you expect an occupied people to live under oppressive laws and paramilitary rule without some kind of violent reactions from time to time? Does Pakistan support these reactions? I think so, but that doesn't change the realities of the occupation.



Very reasonably put, and to be fair, the only thing wanted from Pakistan is to stop active promotion of the faction there that is committed financially to the overthrow of Indian administration. Don't support the reactions; do support the reactions. But don't send in armed men with missions to kill.



> Many sane voices in India called for introspection after Pulwama. I hope you can do some too.



At the cost of sounding guilty of 'whataboutery', a reasoning trope that I abhor, there has to be considerable introspection.

But not only in India.



IceCold said:


> The threads are all combined now so that video must have gotten in between some page but when i tagged you it was on that particular thread.



Yes, I was shoved into the combined thread willy-nilly. I will try to look it up, but, as you might have noticed, there is a queue of Pakistani posters who have decided that the entire matter is to be resolved by interactions with me. A rich and mighty honour that is not of my choosing, and one that I wish I could step aside and allow to pass to Chhappanincheswar.



Rasengan said:


> Calm down uncle. I know these events are shocking, I mean yesterday you were chest pumping and ejaculated prematurely, and today we put the IAF in its place, so please take care of your health.



I did? Which post?



Rasengan said:


> What do you expect? 3 people died in that village from Indian shelling. The soldiers protected him otherwise he would of become a chappal kebab. It must be tough, jumping up and down and now reality has set in.



And they are an exception? People died on both sides due to artillery shelling; do you have any slickly packaged words for the bereaved on the other side?



Ali Tariq said:


> Doesn't suits you



Cheap little sadak-chhap scumbags like that understand little else. What would you have me say?



MUSTAKSHAF said:


> I wish that man is returned and flies as soon as possible.
> Yes, it was but not it's usage at that level.



In that case you didn't read these filthy creatures as some of us had done and had feared.



I S I said:


> Locals just kicked your squadron leader's butt.



They would.

They just proved that they are the same quality of scum who mobbed people on our side of the border because they happened to be of a different religion, ate differently and prayed differently. 

Glad to see that your scum are the same.

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## graphican

*Like rest of India - Nirandra Modi is high on moral*

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## R Wing

Joe Shearer said:


> Thank you for opening as you did, but in view of the obnoxious manners of some of your compatriots, and the sheer vulgarity of their posts, it feels necessary to remind decent members like you of what I stand for, and to inform the others of what is and is not permissible in their remarks directed to me.
> 
> I have, like many millions of Indians, not thousands, stood for peace with Pakistan, and for normal relations. We had no compulsion to do so; for us, it is not tied to our justification for our existence, or to a constructed reason for our specific existence. It is inherent; our culture is peaceful, and has been for thousands of years. After the carnage of partition, we had excellent relations, or at least, relations that were not hostile and toxic, for 18 years. I leave it to those of you who are educated and who know how to sift myth from reality to decide what ensued, and who originated it.
> 
> Kashmir is a special matter; discussing its rights and wrongs is not appropriate here. You will understand if I leave it on one side.
> 
> During my own efforts at doing what one individual can do to build better relations, I have encountered the reasonable, decent people who might oppose some views proposed to them, who might agree with others, but who, above all, could put things together in a rational manner. I have also encountered religious fanatics, in whom their religiosity mingled with their nationalism in a toxic cocktail that is difficult to separate into its components. Finally, there is that curse of the internet, the kiddy-crowd, that has nothing better to do but to vent its frustration and social restrictions by striking grossly vulgar postures on online fora.
> 
> It is impossible to conduct any conversation with the second and third varieties; over time, I have come to realise that they are incorrigible, although age might temper the third group.
> 
> I say this as a prelude to answering your observations below.
> 
> 
> 
> First, non-state actors in Indian usage refers to literally thousands of young people from Punjab and Pakhtunistan who have been brought up with certain very negative impressions about their neighbouring country, its citizens, and its cultural attributes, including the religion that the majority follow in that country. In contrast, if we examine, without prejudice, the usage by our neighbours in Pakistan, it is Pakistanis who are seen to be acting against the interests of Pakistan, NOT, by any stretch, Indians indoctrinated into believing that Pakistan was an existential threat and recruited, trained, motivated, paid and armed before being introduced into Pakistan. The equivalent to those that Pakistan calls non-state actors are those militants within India who want a wider degree of independence from state control than the state deems admissible: the tribals, the north-eastern factions, the Naxals, and so on. Not a single one of these has been placed at the doorstep of Pakistan and its agencies, in spite of the written testimony of your own army officers, not to mention the research and findings of foreign academic investigators.
> 
> Second, it is unfair to take the doings of the last five years and put it in the balance of the doings of the other side for the last seventy years. There were restrictions and outright bans on any kind of monitoring, forget about intervention, on the part of our intelligence agencies. These are well-recorded; you do not have to take my word for it, although on this, I am peculiarly well-informed.
> 
> 
> 
> I found this the most painful part of your note.
> 
> From the time that the two nations were formed, Pakistan flung itself into the arms of the western bloc, while India tried its own quixotic brand of foreign policy of equi-distance from the two blocs. Pakistan joined the Baghdad Pact, that later became CENTO, a parallel of NATO, Pakistan joined the south-east Asian bloc known as SEATO; do look up the dates and also do look up the policies of these two defence unions. And do refresh your memory about Pakistan's former role as a vital ally for NATO, and so declared, at the precise times that we were under interdict due to our policies and principles.
> 
> You might remember, or if you look up the annals, you may read for yourself that the hostility of the period of American attitudes to India, that plummeted to its lowest point under Nixon and his ubiquitous aide Kissinger, recovered only very, very slowly under Clinton, Bush and Obama. Again, it is not reasonable to equate the favour that India (and India's buying power) suddenly started to find with the west for the last twenty years with the unbroken support that Pakistan has enjoyed, in spite of the most egregious behaviour, over seventy years.
> 
> During this period, Pakistan was stuffed full of aid and cash. The economic miracle that Pakistan went through, all the while that its generals twitted Indians with the observation that they would travel in Mercedes cars while India's option was Maruti 800s. If you give him half a chance, my compatriot @Nilgiri will flood you with graphics explaining how injected aid led to economic improvement for Pakistan.
> 
> This happened not once but several times.
> 
> I put it to you that NATO being on the side of India is a pitifully recent phenomenon, and we should remember what little has flowed from that relationship. As a contrast to what military and developmental aid that Pakistan got.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, as I might point out, this was recently restored. Even earlier, it was started very, very recently, in contrast to the
> 
> 
> 
> Very reasonably put, and to be fair, the only thing wanted from Pakistan is to stop active promotion of the faction there that is committed financially to the overthrow of Indian administration. Don't support the reactions; do support the reactions. But don't send in armed men with missions to kill.
> 
> 
> 
> At the cost of sounding guilty of 'whataboutery', a reasoning trope that I abhor, there has to be considerable introspection.
> 
> But not only in India.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I was shoved into the combined thread willy-nilly. I will try to look it up, but, as you might have noticed, there is a queue of Pakistani posters who have decided that the entire matter is to be resolved by interactions with me. A rich and mighty honour that is not of my choosing, and one that I wish I could step aside and allow to pass to Chhappanincheswar.



I applaud your level-headed response. Allow me to respond soon. A bit caught up to give this the rebuttal it deserves... but, quickly:
-I agree Pak benefited from US aid / economic packages 
-I disagree with some of the implications of many of your arguments
-Most importantly, I believe we should be discussing the here and now --- it is obvious that India may well be using state sponsored terrorists more than Pakistan in the last 5-10 years, or at least roughly at the same level 
-Similarly, whether it is a recent phenomenon or not doesn't change the fact that the West (these days) turns a blind eye to India's current sponsorship of terrorism against Pakistan; therefore, I refuse to accept any narrative / line of thinking that pits Pakistan as a state sponsor of terror without acknowledging that India must share this reputation (Baloch vs Kashmiri "terrorists" --- if anything, the Kashmiris have international law on their side, in the sense of it being an illegal occupation and an internationally-recognized disputed territory being ruled by the kind of occupations rarely seen or allowed in the modern era, neither of which can be said of Balochistan) 

More later! Thanks again for this intellectual foreplay!

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## holysinner

doorstar said:


> holier than thou as always!
> I don't think any of them were "muslamic scholars" like you, they just saw him as one of them rapists and child blinders from across the line who had come over to bomb them, and for all they knew he was one them who bombed and killed 4 women and a child yesterday in the nearby area


I am not a muslim scholar. Our Prophet even forgave his worst enemy who ate his uncles liver. Read the instructions of Prophet Muhammad when he gave the sermon to his forces while entering Makkah. When someone gives up, you respect them kindly.


----------



## IFB

arbit said:


> Damn right.
> By the way the Pakistani jet shot down was indeed F-16. Confirmed.



where ? source please.


----------



## Windjammer

*Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui after giving surprise to the Indians.* 





__ https://www.facebook.com/

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Sneaker

CHACHA"G" said:


> He is POW,,,,,, In the end, He will go back home (India) and most probably IAF will retire him...….. So this is end of his service...


Flt Lt Nachiketa who was PoW during Kargil is still serving. But ejection is a hard thing, if he is medically fit, he will serve India once again..

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> Humiliation for what? Bombing Balakot? or crashing over P0K?



For losing 2 pilots while in return destroying 8 trees in Jabba 



ThinkLogically said:


> Perfectly Ok, if we take down one F16 for every loss of ours as happened this time. How many aircrafts do you have to match this attrition?



With such mentality no wonder India is the one who has the egg on its face right now


----------



## indian my friend

graphican said:


> *Proud pilot who scored JF-17s kill against India*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100724900086595599


So it was a mig29 but mig29 also has one pilot?


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> For losing 2 pilots while in return destroying 8 trees in Jabba
> 
> 
> 
> With such mentality no wonder India is the one who has the egg on its face right now



It would be matter of pride even if it were 1 tree..


----------



## sohail.ishaque

CHACHA"G" said:


> *Above are 2 pics for aircraft down in Pakistan ……. Pleas help me out here are those 2 engine backs(tails, exhaust) *
> @Windjammer , @HRK , @DESERT FIGHTER , @Path-Finder , @graphican , @


yep. seems like one is close to population, can see a house in the background and the other one is in some jungle i think.

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## Imran Khan

They should paint indian flag on thunder now with in 15 minutes cant wait to see thunder with kill

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## macnurv

Terry52 said:


> What do you think how many days will Wing commander Abhinandan will spend in Pakistan ?
> View attachment 542450


Not anytime soon, as Pakistan will only hand him over once we feel its the right time. At least not till things cool down.



Sneaker said:


> Flt Lt Nachiketa who was PoW during Kargil is still serving. But ejection is a hard thing, if he is medically fit, he will serve India once again..


In this case its highly unlikely he will be flying again.


----------



## Maarkhoor

@Windjammer

It is confirmed that we have shot down SU-30

Check out this video captured pilot interviewed for T.V show where he confirms that he is Sukhoi 30 pilot.




@Levina
JF-17 shot down mighty SU-30, Kesa Diya  @KRAIT @third eye @randomradio

@Oscar @Irfan Baloch @waz @Horus

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## The Accountant

macnurv said:


> Steps to deescalate must begin immediately from Indian side. However Pakistan must reveal more details about types of jets taken down, if it was really SU30 its a really big deal for JF17. As for returning the pilots, for now Pakistan will hold them in custody and will be handed over to India at an appropriate time of our choosing.


Some of the senior members having insider confirms that it is not MKI ...


----------



## Beast

PAF shall bring the war to India. This is the best time to reclaim kashmir. The IAF moral are low. They know their fighter jet are no match for PAF JF-17 and KJ-200 AWACS combo. That is why they are not acting or taking revenge by sending more fighter jet to PAF air skies anymore. PAF will achieve air supremacy over India air space. China will support Pakistan action into Kashmir by unlimited supply of SD-10 missile and intel report with our most advance 4th gen spy satelite giving PA all the movement of Indian armed forces.

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

aziqbal said:


> Anyone from Attock
> 
> The amount of flying last night was insane
> 
> Karma was launching aircraft after aircraft
> 
> Hard to sleep on GT road
> 
> I think JF17 was deployed from Kamra
> 
> Erieye was also in the air


Same in Peshawar, continuing till the morning.


----------



## Verve

Apparently this detained pilot is son of a retired IAF Air Marshal!

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## Amigator

Block 2 # 31

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## Rasengan

Joe Shearer said:


> I did? Which post?
> 
> And they are an exception? People died on both sides due to artillery shelling; do you have any slickly packaged words for the bereaved on the other side?
> 
> Cheap little sadak-chhap scumbags like that understand little else. What would you have me say?



If you didn't then my bad. However, most of the other Indians were jumping up and down as if they achieved a milestone. I never said it was a good idea. I was explaining the anger of the people who lost their loved ones, you can hardly blame their anger in the heat of the moment. If the same situation occurred opposite the border then I can understand the common man's anger. This is why the Army came just in time to protect him from the mob. I think you should ignore those people. "Never debate with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Mark Twain


----------



## Mahmood-ur-Rehman

Al HAMD DO LILLAH we are proud of our PAF


----------



## Dazzler

Windjammer said:


> *Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui after giving surprise to the Indians.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Thunder has the blood of a fishbed on its hands.

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## Pak-Canuck

LOL F-16 shot down confirmed by who buddy? Ever news source in world is talking about Pak shooting down 2 IAF planes. Only Indian sources talking about an F-16 being shot down despite no F-16 being used in the operation

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> It would be matter of pride even if it were 1 tree..



And it is a matter of pride for us that we have two POW for 8 trees


----------



## HAIDER

https://www.dawn.com/


----------



## macnurv

Windjammer said:


> *Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui after giving surprise to the Indians.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



When can we expect release of arial footage from PAF of the shot down. JF17, a proven platform now.

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

so it was the Thunder not f16! Apparently, he is trained to fly both.


----------



## Srinivas

Longhorn said:


> You sound shrill.
> Are you Gen Bakshi in disguise?



I am glad that you remember GD Bakshi who sent terrorists packing from Jammu.



Rusty said:


> if Modi ji is smart, it is over.
> 
> Both sides will declare a cease fire.
> Pak will return the pilots as a good will gesture.
> Years later the IAF pilot and the Pak army jawans who saved him will meet in a cafe in London and laugh about it over some tea.



If Modi is smart he will slap Pakistan one more time and then talk peace.


----------



## koolio

Congratulations to all Pakistani's, JF17 thunders have proved thier metal and battle tested will get better in times ahead.

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## Maarkhoor

The Accountant said:


> Some of the senior members having insider confirms that it is not MKI ...


Check the above video, Abinandan is SU-30 pilot.


----------



## rambro

JF-17 did it wonderfully, 

Now that is a sales pitch without doing sales.

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## Thorough Pro

That is a true leader, with a big pair of balls as well as sane mind, unlike indian chai wala.



Indus Pakistan said:


> Prime Minister Imran Khan's speach today.

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## Sneaker

macnurv said:


> Not anytime soon, as Pakistan will only hand him over once we feel its the right time. At least not till things cool down.
> 
> 
> In this case its highly unlikely he will be flying again.



May be.. we can access once he is back. But he will still serve in IAF..

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## Indus Pakistan

"Sir we lost two jets to Pakistan" Modi be like ...

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## Maxpane

great


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## aziqbal

All praises are to Allah and his messenger 

May Allah give us victory over the enemy’s of Islam and Pakistan 

Looks like it was JF17 Block II 231

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## Cuirassier

And some people were giving Griffins the credit.


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## Flash_Ninja

True chads


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## Srinivas

JonAsad said:


> Yup casualties are acceptable as long as they are not your father, brother or sons - so much bravado fly your keyboard and drop keys on us will ya-
> 
> 
> your captured pilot is a Su30 pilot -



May be you should talk like this when you sent PAF towards Indian border.


----------



## Daghalodi

Hurray!!!!

Congratulations Pakistan

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## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> And it is a matter of pride for us that we have two POW for 8 trees



one PoW..


----------



## arbit

IFB said:


> where ? source please.



information not online.
Has Pakistan issued any statement on downed jet, what it was?


----------



## Verve

Indian chopper crashed in Bugdam J&K. 5 dead including pilot https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...budgam-2-pilots-dead/articleshow/68179349.cms


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## Dazzler

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> so it was the Thunder not f16! Apparently, he is trained to fly both.



Most thunder riders have come from f16 squadrons.

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Daghalodi said:


> Hurray!!!!
> 
> Congratulations Pakistan
> 
> View attachment 542460


which aircraft ? looks like a flanker


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> so it was the Thunder not f16! Apparently, he is trained to fly both.



Pilots can wear patches of all aircraft they are qualified to fly, and they normally do.

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## JonAsad

Srinivas said:


> May be you should talk like this when you sent PAF towards Indian border.


in case you are selectively sleeping - we did -

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## Rusty

Srinivas said:


> I am glad that you remember GD Bakshi who sent terrorists packing from Jammu.
> 
> 
> 
> If Modi is smart he will slap Pakistan one more time and then talk peace.



No one ever lost money betting on Indian stupidity.

It's over yar, no point crying like a baby.
Accept peace, take your pilots back and dream of a day when you can come to Lahore and enjoy our amazing chai.

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## Windjammer

Imran Khan said:


> They should paint indian flag on thunder now with in 15 minutes cant wait to see thunder with kill


If we wait a little, then we may be able to paint more than one.
@Hodor @Knuckles , where are you guys.

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## Champs Trophy 2017

Pappu pilot with pappu jahaz


----------



## Mav3rick

Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!



What do you expect from some one who was supposed to be bombed by your pilot? They do the same to captured suicide bombers, mobile snatchers, dacoits, robbers etc.

However, look at the conduct of the Military, they arrested and defended the captured Pilot from the mob.

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## aziqbal

The guys in those videos are the hero’s 

I bet the pilot feels like a million dollars today 

No doubt the debrief will take lesson for future 

Surrounded by fellow colleagues

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## Arsalan 345

War Thunder said:


> The pilot of the wreckage was also found next to it. there is a video on that.
> this guy wsnt flying that.



so the guy in cmh hospital?where is he? where is the wreckage of the other jet?


----------



## Avicenna

arbit said:


> information not online.
> Has Pakistan issued any statement on downed jet, what it was?



Pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## Pakistani E

This is the ugly side of war. Individuals caught up in events much larger than themselves. I expect him to be treated well as a POW. 

I also hope that better sense prevails and mature leadership on both side understand the consequences of unrepentant hatred and violence. Both sides have shown they are capable, and now they should both sit down and realise that peace is the only option we have.

One can also hope that the Indian leadership can see the elephant in the room, that is the outstanding Jammu and Kashmir issue, without which, there can never be peace in this region.

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## Daghalodi

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> which aircraft ? looks like a flanker



Mig 21


----------



## Salza

arbit said:


> information not online.
> Has Pakistan issued any statement on downed jet, what it was?



Lmao don't embarrass yourself further


----------



## qwerrty

blackuday said:


> Mirage 2k


looks like mig-21


----------



## IFB

arbit said:


> information not online.
> Has Pakistan issued any statement on downed jet, what it was?



Ok...yeah ISPR briefing two IAF downed...one pilot in custody......mig 21 bison both of them...MI7 Heli crash in IOK not them they clarified....no word on the F16.


----------



## Joe Shearer

R Wing said:


> I applaud your level-headed response. Allow me to respond soon. A bit caught up to give this the rebuttal it deserves... but, quickly:
> -I agree Pak benefited from US aid / economic packages
> -I disagree with some of the implications of many of your arguments
> -Most importantly, I believe we should be discussing the here and now --- it is obvious that India may well be using state sponsored terrorists more than Pakistan in the last 5-10 years, or at least roughly at the same level
> -Similarly, whether it is a recent phenomenon or not doesn't change the fact that the West (these days) turns a blind eye to India's current sponsorship of terrorism against Pakistan; therefore, I refuse to accept any narrative / line of thinking that pits Pakistan as a state sponsor of terror without acknowledging that India must share this reputation (Baloch vs Kashmiri "terrorists" --- if anything, the Kashmiris have international law on their side, in the sense of it being an illegal occupation and an internationally-recognized disputed territory being ruled by the kind of occupations rarely seen or allowed in the modern era, neither of which can be said of Balochistan)
> 
> More later! Thanks again for this intellectual foreplay!



Please reply later this evening. I am left with a bad taste in my mouth from having to read and deal with some of your compatriots. 

Needless to add, we have their equivalents; it is still an unpleasant experience to have to deal with their sheer mental vacuity and stinking manners.

However, in contrast, I will look forward with pleasure to responding to you, or to @MUSTAKSHAF, @IceCold, @fitpOsitive, @Ali Tariq, @Avicenna, @Talwar e Pakistan or their likes. @WAJsal and @waz are obviously above all these.

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## HAIDER

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwsome ... 

Imran Khan forever......................

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## YeBeWarned

Good that Pakistani Soldiers have Protected him ..


----------



## abdulbarijan

@Hodor bhai reported it wasn't a SU-30 that we took down today. If so, were they both fishbeds or a fishbed along with a fulcrum? can you please clarify?

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## macnurv

Sneaker said:


> May be.. we can access once he is back. But he will still serve in IAF..



He might be handed back to Indians as soon as the situation deescalates. There is no declared war between the countries, but I think he will be treated as a POW as he was a uniformed officer and must be treated accordingly.

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## Agito

"two pilots", what type of aircraft is it?


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## Goenitz

Indian returned our soldiers i think of rangers when they were bathing in river and went to the other side downstream... and amrines/coast guards who were chasing indian fishermen in pak terrotory but boat capsized... even that didn't ahppen, we can't retain POWs.... as Zaid Hamid is saying bargain him for Col Habib... asnyway, if secretly possible then we should definitely ask Indians for him... and then deny he was Kidnapped by RAW but by some smugglers or whatsoever...

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## Ali Tariq

Joe Shearer said:


> Cheap little sadak-chhap scumbags like that understand little else. What would you have me say?

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## SABRE

*Abhinandan's new video released.*


----------



## Joe Shearer

Mav3rick said:


> What do you expect from some one who was supposed to be bombed by your pilot? They do the same to captured suicide bombers, mobile snatchers, dacoits, robbers etc.
> 
> However, look at the conduct of the Military, they arrested and defended the captured Pilot from the mob.



From your accounts - I have read none other - he was a MiG21 pilot, and there was no aerial bombardment of those areas. 

Again, as far as Kashmir is concerned, I am intrigued at your mention of suicide bombers. When was the last time they saw one or heard of one, in Azad Kashmir? I thought that was a commodity strictly intended for export.


----------



## Cuirassier

JF-17 it was!


----------



## Blueskiez 2001

Waqar Rashid said:


> They can't remove this. Downloadit before they delete it. Here is the proof of his indentity



isnt this a indirect proof of downing a SU30 - you have a SU30 pilot?
Or do u also fly mig21 even if u are a SU30 pilot?

Anyone can shed ligth on this....


----------



## Dazzler



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Avicenna

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> which aircraft ? looks like a flanker



That's the flattened fuselage of a Mig-21 Bison.


----------



## The Accountant

Maarkhoor said:


> Check the above video, Abinandan is SU-30 pilot.


Well I am still puzzled as the remarks were from very senior members infact from a professional member ...


----------



## Telescopic Sight

Slides said:


> Link the post? It was a JF-17 that shot don at least one of the Migs.


look for Tufail s facebook page posted here itself. 
see what jet no.9 sq. flies.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

IK has become the strongest PM ever!

Pilot is on TV.

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## Pakistani E

We don't need to speculate. I have firm conviction in our armed forces to treat a POW with dignity and respect. Individuals are mere pawns in the wider game, and I hope he is reunited with his family as soon as possible.

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## Pak-Canuck

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive

SUKHOI 30 BABY!!!! JF-17 just took out a Su-30!!! Look at the pic, that's a Su-30 rear!!!! Even the BR forum ppl have accepted it hahaha


----------



## rott

Rusty said:


> No one ever lost money betting on Indian stupidity.
> 
> It's over yar, no point crying like a baby.
> Accept peace, take your pilots back and dream of a day when you can come to Lahore and enjoy our amazing chai.


They won't I bet you. Their ego is hurting. They'll be back for more beatings by the PAF.

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## macnurv

Srinivas said:


> Just wait for it, this is not over !


Sorry but for you guys, it is.


----------



## Maarkhoor

The Accountant said:


> Well I am still puzzled as the remarks were from very senior members infact from a professional member ...


We have captured 3 pilots one is dead, one is in CMH and Abinandan is captured, check above video which I have posted he is fighter pilot of SU-30.

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## Windjammer

abdulbarijan said:


> @Hodor bhai reported it wasn't a SU-30 that we took down today. If so, were they both fishbeds or a fishbed along with a fulcrum? can you please clarify?


One was certainly a twin engine.
Either way, Two kills are Two kills.....way more better than a few trees.

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## Vortex

Windjammer said:


> *Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui after giving surprise to the Indians.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



I have tears in my eyes...

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## maximuswarrior

MashAllah feel victorious today.

*Let's remain vigilant. The enemy is in pain.*

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## Cuirassier

Telescopic Sight said:


> look for Tufail s facebook page posted here itself.
> see what jet no.9 sq. flies.


JF17 did it, check other threads for the video.


----------



## War Thunder

Arsalan 345 said:


> so the guy in cmh hospital?where is he? where is the wreckage of the other jet?



it was on media where they were rescuing him while he was lying down all broken and unable to move, next to some wreckage.

this one probably 








I think this abhi guy belongs to the jet that went down in IOK, while the CMH guy belonged to the Mig Wreckage.

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## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

Joe Shearer said:


> No, kick your overgrown arse and send you home tied in a knot.
> 
> It's not about Modi; if you want to get personal, sure, I'm game.
> 
> 
> 
> You will better advised to try the local ones; they are superior.
> 
> 
> 
> Not soldier, but pilot.
> 
> Respect is earned, not demanded. But what would you know about that?


Hahah I really don't wanna hurt an old emotional chap.


----------



## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> If we wait a little, then we may be able to paint more than one.
> @Hodor @Knuckles , where are you guys.


Following the news since the first jets took off. 

2 MiG-21s and a helicopter down so far. No Su-30s.

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## Thorough Pro

Whatever helps you keep high in your delusions, but NEVER forget, you got shafted again..... but I hear whores stop feeling that after a while



Jackdaws said:


> Interceptor Mig21 which was chasing out a Pak jet was taken down by Pak air defences in Pak air space.

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## Mav3rick

Jackdaws said:


> Interceptor Mig21 which was chasing out a Pak jet was taken down by Pak air defences in Pak air space.



Wouldn't IAF be aware of PAF/PA's Air Assets in the area? Why would they then take the chance? The most likely scenario is that they were shot down during air to air combat.


----------



## LegitimateIdiot

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


Lmao Indian media is hysterical trying to attack "Kashmiri terrorists" What terrorists? Jaish is already declared a terrorist for a long time !!! Lmao and no one is talking about those 100 thousand innocent Kashmiri killed


----------



## Btrizer

__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## Ali Tariq

Dazzler said:


>


Our armed force are just showing how PROFESSIONAL they are. Proud of our Armed Forces


----------



## Telescopic Sight

TF141 said:


> JF17 did it, check other threads for the video.


Up to you to believe so. I trust Tufail


----------



## sohail.ishaque

So there is the first blood by Thunder

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## Pak-Canuck

IT WAS SU-30 BABY!!! Look at this pic

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive

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## graphican

Telescopic Sight said:


> So NO J17's used. Just F16 vipers and great tactics by the paf pilots



NO F16 was used. JF-17 scored the shot against India.


----------



## Arsalan 345

War Thunder said:


> it was on media where they were rescuing him while he was lying down all broken and unable to move, next to some wreckage.



ok so he is in hospital.media showed one wreckage spot,not the other fighter jet wreckage.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Verve said:


> Apparently this detained pilot is son of a retired IAF Air Marshal!



If true, that would make no difference to the IAF, and shouldn't, to the PAF or the PA. 

When Cariappa's son got shot down and captured, he was given the same treatment as other Indian pilots and he was proud of it.



Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> Hahah I really don't wanna hurt an old emotional chap.



Not emotional.

Just contemptuous.


----------



## Dazzler

Vortex said:


> I have tears in my eyes...




Thank me

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## Pak-Canuck

SU-30 kill confirmed, even the BR forum ppl have accepted it hahahah

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive

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## Thorough Pro

A brave nation does not leave their soldiers behind, you started it, why don't you send some more to rescue him?



Joe Shearer said:


> Well done. What a brave nation!


----------



## I S I

Joe Shearer said:


> They would.
> 
> They just proved that they are the same quality of scum who mobbed people on our side of the border because they happened to be of a different religion, ate differently and prayed differently.
> 
> Glad to see that your scum are the same


Not same. Your scum armymen can only spew their anger on helpless IOKashmiris after getting an asswhooping from Pakistan. While we teach your scum armymen directly or indirectly when we get hurt..ehem ehem URI URI jaaein URI URI jaaein.


----------



## Stealth

*Hindu Indian Terrrist Kulbushan Yaduv got roomate *

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## Pak-Canuck

JF-17 just shot down a SU-30 boys

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive

That's a Su-30 rear!!!!

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## R Wing

It has been a bad day for the IAF:
6x officers killed in Mi17 crash/downing
2x officers captured in 2x jet downings

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## Vortex

Dazzler said:


> Thank me


I need more But Indians need it more urgently

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## War Thunder

Arsalan 345 said:


> ok so he is in hospital.media showed one wreckage spot,not the other fighter jet wreckage.



check my updated comment.

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## Pak-Canuck

Knuckles said:


> Following the news since the first jets took off.
> 
> 2 MiG-21s and a helicopter down so far. No Su-30s.



https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive

Look at the pic! That's a SU-30 rear!!!!


----------



## Joe Shearer

Thorough Pro said:


> A brave nation does not leave their soldiers behind, you started it, why don't you send some more to rescue him?



You can't do much about a pilot who lands in a populated area. Once you become even an intermittent pro, other than in name, you will come to know that.


----------



## shahbaz baig

Mob were beating him, if security forces didn't rescue him on time, then people was surely going to kill him.


----------



## indian my friend

Thorough Pro said:


> A brave nation does not leave their soldiers behind, you started it, why don't you send some more to rescue him?[/QUOT
> Well said


----------



## Longhorn

Srinivas said:


> I am glad that you remember GD Bakshi who sent terrorists packing from Jammu.
> 
> 
> 
> If Modi is smart he will slap Pakistan one more time and then talk peace.


I know Bakshi as the impotent loudmouth off Indian TV.


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> which aircraft ? looks like a flanker


That is the (almost flattened) front fuselage of a MiG-21.


----------



## Tauren Paladin

Indian jets shot out of the sky Boooom!!!!!


----------



## IceCold

Jets are still flying. I can hear them buzzing over my office but it seems as if they are not flying low as the sound is not that loud.


----------



## Maarkhoor



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## Arsalan 345

War Thunder said:


> check my updated comment.



what a hit.this other pilot lost his leg.


----------



## N.Siddiqui

Indian captured pilot enjoying Pak hospitality and Chai..


----------



## War Thunder

Terry52 said:


> What do you think how many days will Wing commander Abhinandan will spend in Pakistan ?
> View attachment 542450



As long as it takes to extract every single of your secrets he knows of.
And will pobably leave as a new asset for ISI, even if he doesnt your IAF wont return him to active service anymore...


----------



## fitpOsitive

Joe Shearer said:


> Please reply later this evening. I am left with a bad taste in my mouth from having to read and deal with some of your compatriots.
> 
> Needless to add, we have their equivalents; it is still an unpleasant experience to have to deal with their sheer mental vacuity and stinking manners.
> 
> However, in contrast, I will look forward with pleasure to responding to you, or to @MUSTAKSHAF, @IceCold, @fitpOsitive, @Ali Tariq, @Avicenna, @Talwar e Pakistan or their likes. @WAJsal and @waz are obviously above all these.


As I always say, some people in West are not liking rising east. 
People here in west are particularly afraid of Chinese and Indian economies.
The guys who staged pulwama are particular agents of chaos. 
We must stop here to save the future of our coming generations. 
Mark my words, if we will not destroy ourselves, we Asians will inherit this world.

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## StandForInsaf

He should be tried in court for waging war against Pakistan and invading its sovereignty.

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## War Thunder

Stealth said:


> *Hindu Indian Terrrist Kulbushan Yaduv got roomate *




That guy was a secret agent aka terror oprator.
This guy is a uniformed soldier and was only doing what was best for his country.

There is a difference...

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## Cash GK

Windjammer said:


> *Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui after giving surprise to the Indians.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


sale of jf 17 will be hot sale world wild

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## Agito

Maarkhoor said:


>



That IS a MiG-21.


----------



## zeroboy



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## Hayreddin

Whether u like it or not PAF narrative of Man behind the machine prevails .... 
Jf thunder shoot down mig21 and iaf shupa dupa su30 mki . 

Well done PAF

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

War Thunder said:


> it was on media where they were rescuing him while he was lying down all broken and unable to move, next to some wreckage.
> 
> this one probably
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this abhi guy belongs to the jet that went down in IOK, while the CMH guy belonged to the Mig Wreckage.


The body visible in the video is of the crashed helicopter pilot, which ISPR clearly said has nothing to do with them. As for the confusion regarding number of pilots, ISPR stated two aircraft were shot down, currently assumed to be MiG-21's. Of these, one was said to have fallen inside India, but that doesn't mean the pilot couldn't have ejected within Pakistan. As such it's safe to assume that two planes carrying a pilot each have been brought down, with one in custody and the other in CMH.


----------



## Pak-Canuck

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive

SU-30 confirmed boys, look at the wreckage


----------



## Joe Shearer

fitpOsitive said:


> As I always say, some people in West are not liking rising east.
> People here in west are particularly afraid of Chinese and Indian economies.
> The guys who staged pulwama are particular agents of chaos.
> We must stop here to save the future of our coming generations.
> Mark my words, if we will not destroy ourselves, we Asians will inherit this world.



At this moment, my mind is full of ফুলকপির ডালনা
This is a secret weapon with which we will over-run the world.

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## macnurv

Just heard from Shahid Lateef, the second jet was Mirage 2000. Since he is linked to Airforce directly he might be correct here.

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## Imran Khan

Wow man so he is here

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## macnurv

Imran Khan said:


> Wow man so he is here


He is enjoying real doodh pati, not the Indian Masala Chai lol

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## Fieldmarshal

Air marshal shahid lateef just stated that the two ac shot down were 1 mig 21 bis and 1 mirage 2000

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## darksider

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100732946028335105


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Pak-Canuck said:


> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive
> 
> SU-30 confirmed boys, look at the wreckage


Can you please point out details of the wreckage that point to it's identity, as I, and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people on this forum wouldn't be able to identify an aircraft from a mangled wreckage.

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## greenblooded

give him beef paye he will appreciate our hospitality


----------



## Imran Khan

macnurv said:


> He is enjoying real doodh pati, not the Indian Masala Chai lol


He is fine man these videos warm my blood thanks paf

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## N.Siddiqui



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## CriticalThought

Fieldmarshal said:


> Air marshal shahid lateef just stated that the two ac shot down were 1 mig 21 bis and 1 mirage 2000



Link?


----------



## Arsalan 345

i think pak army saved his life.good gesture.


----------



## Raider 21

macnurv said:


> Just heard from Shahid Lateef, the second jet was Mirage 2000. Since he is linked to Airforce directly he might be correct here.


And very well wrong.

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## shahbaz baig

N.Siddiqui said:


> Indian captured pilot enjoying Pak hospitality and Chai..


Wtf first pak Army recused him from mobs, and now he is enjoying tea.

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## Maarkhoor

@Levina @KRAIT



Imran Khan said:


> Wow man so he is here


We ordered beef birayani for him, next video will be at dinner.


----------



## Mav3rick

Joe Shearer said:


> From your accounts - I have read none other - he was a MiG21 pilot, and there was no aerial bombardment of those areas.



Just the other night, men in same uniform and team bombed and destroyed 3 trees in Azad Kashmir. Their intention was to bomb civilians so when one of their's is shot down, this should be expected. Besides, how is it different when men in the same uniform bomb civilians? Unless you mean to say that it is ok for your pilots to bomb civilians from a Jet and not ok for those civilians to take revenge on the same enemy. 



Joe Shearer said:


> Again, as far as Kashmir is concerned, I am intrigued at your mention of suicide bombers. When was the last time they saw one or heard of one, in Azad Kashmir? I thought that was a commodity strictly intended for export.



Not just Kashmir, I was referring to the larger Pakistani population; you may not have noticed but we have been victims of your terrorism for a very long time. And Pakistanis feel the pain of victims of your terrorism regardless of the distance between them.


----------



## hassan zohaib

Indians r talking about Geneva convention n according to it official declaration of war is necessary for the pow safely n sound return but will it b applied in the present situation where official war isn't declared?
Imo, it is gonna b applied as war has certain background n this situation qualify for war...


----------



## Rusty

Posted on twitter 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100732946028335105
Latest interview with the Pilot. 

Super proud of Pak forces, the pilot said he is being treated really well and he loves the chai

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## shanipisces2002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100734469655486464
This is how we treat pow with a cup of [emoji477]

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## assasiner

CriticalThought said:


> Link?


live on ary right now


----------



## b4umsf




----------



## Indus Pakistan

Srinivas said:


> Just wait for it, this is not over !


Yeh, yeh. Been waiting for 70 years. If you can get your Bangla mates to help you then I might be slightly worried but you guy's alone. Come and get more slaps if you want. You got warned by PM IK to desist but you did not. Now two of your fighters got shot up with pilots captured ...

Now be a good boy and go call the Banglas to the rescue ...

Here listen to Indian wing commander Abhinandan enjoying Pakistani hospitality. He really appreciates having something called a 'toilet'.

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## Jinn Baba

This is SOOOOOOO EMBARASSING FOR INDIA

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## RangeMaster

They saved me from mob.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100734821666570240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100737102491381761

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## shahbaz baig

Rusty said:


> Posted on twitter
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100732946028335105
> Latest interview with the Pilot.
> 
> Super proud of Pak forces, the pilot said he is being treated really well and he loves the chai


----------



## macnurv

Knuckles said:


> And very well wrong.


Could be, for now lets hold with speculations. If its SU30, Pakistan will officially announce it with further details.

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## StandForInsaf

hassan zohaib said:


> Indians r talking about Geneva convention n according to it official declaration of war is necessary for the pow safely n sound return but will it b applied in the present situation where official war isn't declared?
> Imo, it is gonna b applied as war has certain background n this situation qualify for war...



Its still a moral convention , America/Russia Israel violated it 1000 times. No one can enforce this convention. 
We have only moral obligation to act on it.

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## Sine Nomine

Joe Shearer said:


> In that case you didn't read these filthy creatures as some of us had done and had feared.


Well i have least interest in politics,they are good for nothing.

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## Rusty

shahbaz baig said:


>


whats the problem?
He is getting good treatement as per international law. I Would expect nothing less>

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## Devil Soul

arbit said:


> information not online.
> Has Pakistan issued any statement on downed jet, what it was?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100734469655486464

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## Imran Khan

I was tired of nachikeeta pics and videos

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## Jinn Baba

He will be sent back - to give Modi a face saving measure and to de-escalate things.


----------



## Pak-Canuck

Logical Pakistani said:


> Can you please point out details of the wreckage that point to it's identity, as I, and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people on this forum wouldn't be able to identify an aircraft from a mangled wreckage.









Which other plane has the chaff/flare dispensor rod protruding between the tail pipes like that in the IAF? Look at the pic I posted, you can clearly see that in the wreckage. It's so obvious now that even on the BR forums ppl have accepted it and bitching about it LOL

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## macnurv

Maarkhoor said:


> @Levina @KRAIT
> 
> 
> We ordered beef birayani for him, next video will be at dinner.



No need for this, his religious views will be respected. But I am not sure how he will be treated in India once he heads back to India, since he praised PA instead of calling them monsters as per Indian Media narrative. I feel the pettiness of India will be on full display against him.

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## Zarvan



Reactions: Like Like:
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## SABRE

According to DG ISPR he is the only pilot in custody.


----------



## shahbaz baig

Rusty said:


> whats the problem?
> He is getting good treatement as per international law. I Would expect nothing less>


first pak Army recused him from mobs, and now he is enjoying tea. 
Logo ko marnay detay, enough is enough. They don't want peace.


----------



## Yaseen1

He should embrace Islam


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

bananarepublic said:


> Original Target was military Posts,command and bunkers
> but we did not target them


No. The PAF hit empty fields/area, like many of us said they would. The objective was to make a point. The IAF probably entered Pakistani airspace as a retaliation and perhaps didn't factor in that the rules of engagement were no longer what they were yesterday and that Nawaz Sharif isn't Prime Minister.

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## Viny




----------



## Asad-Ali

Yaar i have few videos of indian pilot who's mig is shot down by PAF and got busted by kashmiri villegers today  and now dun ask me what happened next because you know when an indian is captured by kashmiris what are the consequences unfortunately i cant share those video here because of their massive size HD videos

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## Mutakalim

aziqbal said:


> All praises are to Allah and his messenger
> 
> May Allah give us victory over the enemy’s of Islam and Pakistan
> 
> Looks like it was JF17 Block II 231


*Indeed, those who oppose Allah and His Messenger are abased as those before them were abased. And We have certainly sent down verses of clear evidence. And for the disbelievers is a humiliating punishment.*
*Surah e Mujadla 5*

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> one PoW..



Two as per ISPR


----------



## Viny

Where did the hospital guy vanished ...


----------



## Viny

Where did the other one from hospital vanished


----------



## PakEye

Best disposal of flying coffins the Mig-21 by IAF


----------



## SHAH07

What stupidity from us... when will we learn propaganda warfare.. Shouldn’t have asked him this that at first place that what mission he was on.. and secondly when he replied, I am not supposed to tell you this.. we should have cut that out.. 
aiwein hi Hero bana rahai hen isai..



macnurv said:


> No need for this, his religious views will be respected. But I am not sure how he will be treated in India once he heads back to India, since he praised PA instead of calling them monsters as per Indian Media narrative. I feel the pettiness of India will be on full display against him.


How do you know he won’t change his statement, when he’ll go back to India ?


----------



## Daghalodi

Viny said:


> View attachment 542484



We will hand him back safe and sound !! We are not uncivilized like bharatis

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## Viny

Where did the other pilot which was put into CMS disappeared


----------



## randomradio

Pak-Canuck said:


> SU-30 kill confirmed, even the BR forum ppl have accepted it hahahah
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive



That engine is obviously too small to be the MKI's.

You can crawl into the MKI's engines.


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Windjammer said:


> One was certainly a twin engine.
> Either way, Two kills are Two kills.....way more better than a few trees.


That is what I got from mu source and the pics you posted ….. One can clearly see 2 engine backs , tails or exhaust (whatever one call them)..
But what ever it was , We did shoot 2 birds (even if it is one as per few sources , It is still IAF )………. Single engine Mig-21 or Mig-29 or Su-30 still Indian Airforce Birds …….


----------



## Fawad alam

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156343884623721




Total 3 Pilots came out, means there is SU30 kill


----------



## randomradio

Maarkhoor said:


> @Windjammer
> 
> It is confirmed that we have shot down SU-30
> 
> Check out this video captured pilot interviewed for T.V show where he confirms that he is Sukhoi 30 pilot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Levina
> JF-17 shot down mighty SU-30, Kesa Diya  @KRAIT @third eye @randomradio
> 
> @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @waz @Horus



He was flying a Mig-21 Bison when it was shot down. Our pilots move between different birds.


----------



## SHAH07

And he is already saying in that video that the Captain rescued my from Mob and soldiers... and let me tell you indians can pick this up and do propaganda against Pakistan.. and he might do the same when sent back..


----------



## Viny

Daghalodi said:


> We will hand him back safe and sound !! We are not uncivilized like bharatis



Where did the other one who was put into CMS went :o


----------



## CriticalThought

assasiner said:


> live on ary right now



Well I would have to respectfully disagree because one of the wreckages looks like a twin engine.


----------



## Imran Khan

Viny said:


> View attachment 542486
> 
> 
> Where did the other one from hospital vanished


Sadly he was burnt totally after his jet crashed in iok


----------



## aziqbal

And this is why we win ladies and gentleman

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## macnurv

SHAH07 said:


> What stupidity from us... when will we learn propaganda warfare.. Shouldn’t have asked him this that at first place that what mission he was on.. and secondly when he replied, I am not supposed to tell you this.. we should have cut that out..
> aiwein hi Hero bana rahai hen isai..
> 
> 
> How do you know he won’t change his statement, when he’ll go back to India ?



Good thing we wont be taking advise from you on effective propaganda otherwise we are screwed. It is paramount to show the world that we are not the aggressors here, and the whole Indian narrative should be undermined and this is one of the most effective way of doing so.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

Viny said:


> View attachment 542486
> 
> 
> Where did the other one from hospital vanished


start using the words, "kindly, please, pardon" etc in your comments. Just a suggestion.
Same goes for the rest of india.

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## Salza

SABRE said:


> According to DG ISPR he is the only pilot in custody.



Probably the other one died. Reports were he was badly injured and in hospital at the moment.


----------



## rott

Indus Pakistan said:


> Yeh, yeh. Been waiting for 70 years. If you can get your Bangla mates to help you then I might be slightly worried but you guy's alone. Come and get more slaps if you want. You got warned by PM IK to desist but you did not. Now two of your fighters got shot up with pilots captured ...
> 
> Now be a good boy and go call the Banglas to the rescue ...
> 
> Here listen to Indian wing commander Abhinandan enjoying Pakistani hospitality. He really appreciates having something called a 'toilet'.


I am totally impressed with the Pakistanis' goodwill and hospitality shown here. You slapped them IAF but you treated the pilot in the best of ways. Totally impressed!

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## hassan zohaib

In his first press conference, DG ISPR said that he had two pilots in his captivity- one in custody n other is in GHQ but now he claims that he has only one in his captivity. So what has changed, either it was misinformation or some changes in strategy?


----------



## YeBeWarned

I am expecting some Orders for JF-17 thunder now  
Victory belongs to Allah , with his help we have rub the nose of arrogant enemy in dirt ..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## monitor

Terry52 said:


> What do you think how many days will Wing commander Abhinandan will spend in Pakistan ?
> View attachment 542450





Max said:


> He is aggressor, he intruded into our airspace, he should be tried in military court. No?


According to *Geneva convention*, Pakistan have to return Wing Commander in 7 days or else both countries will be officially in War


----------



## aamirzs

On Pakistani news ... one was Mig-21 and other one was Mirage 2000.
and NO F-16 was lost, because F-16 never took part.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100739613486915584

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## Daghalodi

Viny said:


> Where did the other one who was put into CMS went :o



I think DG ISPR said there is only one! Looks like we couldnt save the other one from Kashmiri people


----------



## POPEYE-Sailor

Have a look this video

Reactions: Like Like:
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## z9-ec

randomradio said:


> He was flying a Mig-21 Bison when it was shot down. Our pilots move between different birds.



Su-30 MKI and Mig-21 were shot down as evident with the pictures.


----------



## Imran Khan

Its fine even if one

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## SHAH07

macnurv said:


> Good thing we wont be taking advise from you on effective propaganda otherwise we are screwed. It is paramount to show the world that we are not the aggressors here, and the whole Indian narrative should be undermined and this is one of the most effective way of doing so.


I said the video was enough uptil that silly question.. there wasn’t any need for it..


----------



## sohail.ishaque

Alhamdullilah. Don't forget to shukar Almighty Allah. And please avoid using baray bol. Thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Great Janjua

Probably dead or there was just one to begin with

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## Imran Khan

He should meet abhi nandan on dinner tonight


----------



## macnurv

SABRE said:


> According to DG ISPR he is the only pilot in custody.



That is strange, he did claim that there are two Indian pilots, one is in CMH. Not sure if he is expired because of his injuries.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dr. Strangelove

monitor said:


> According to *Geneva convention*, Pakistan have to return Wing Commander in 7 days or else both countries will be officially in War


without a declaration of war geneva convention does not appy


----------



## CriticalThought

randomradio said:


> That engine is obviously too small to be the MKI's.
> 
> You can crawl into the MKI's engines.



Only when it is fully opened up.


----------



## SABRE

Salza said:


> Probably the other one died. Reports were he was badly injured and in hospital at the moment.



Makes little sense. DG ISPR would/should not hide this fact. In fact, that's the first to communicate to the enemy & the pilots family.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

The other Indian fighter that was shot went down in Occupied Kashmir. Two Indian pilots killed and a civilian collateral.










rott said:


> I am totally impressed with the Pakistanis' goodwill and hospitality shown here. You slapped them IAF but you treated the pilot in the best of ways. Totally impressed!


The Pakistan Armed forces are professional with high standards of training with history going back to the British era. The pilot will be taken care of and returned to his country.

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## macnurv

SHAH07 said:


> I said the video was enough uptil that silly question.. there wasn’t any need for it..


All part of effective answer against Indian narrative.


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## Han Patriot

randomradio said:


> He was flying a Mig-21 Bison when it was shot down. Our pilots move between different birds.


Lol...pray hard, else a JF17 frying SU30 will make your balls shrink for decades to come.

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## Salza

The other one has probably died. It was reporter that he was badly injured. Or may be we r trying to defuse the tensions.

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## monitor

"Main election campaign kr rha tha, Ye to jazbati hi ho gye"

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## Cash GK

Viny said:


> View attachment 542487
> 
> 
> Where did the other pilot which was put into CMS disappeared


dead


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## blain2

Like Fly Lt Nachiketa, he too will be returned to India.



Dr. Strangelove said:


> without a declaration of war geneva convention does not appy


Yes it applies. No ifs and buts.

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## z9-ec

It is a big day for JF-17 Thunder ...


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## graphican

*Breaking news: ISPR says Pakistan has one indian pilot in custody.*

Looks like Pakistan is ready to toe Indian claim to minify downing of Indian fighter jets.


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## macnurv

ahmedlatif said:


> Have a look this video


India had effectively lost Kashmir, these people are not scared anymore.

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## monitor

Dr. Strangelove said:


> without a declaration of war geneva convention does not appy



Still He will be return to India .


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## YeBeWarned

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> No. The PAF hit empty fields/area, like many of us said they would. The objective was to make a point. The IAF probably entered Pakistani airspace as a retaliation and perhaps didn't factor in that the rules of engagement were no longer what they were yesterday and that Nawaz Sharif isn't Prime Minister.



I think that was a Great Strategy by Pakistan Air force to not hit the Installation directly but on empty grounds, Just to make a Point that we are capable of attack your targets, and next time we will not drop bombs on empty fields , IAF did miscalculated again and try their luck to enter Pakistan once again thinking that PAF will not engage or shot them down .. I guess they learn their lesson the hard way.

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## Btrizer

Btrizer said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



So this video is proof enough that back in 2011 this Abhi was flying SU30 .... lmao .... engine size pey denial ... SU 30 destroyed ... good luck with the ego control ... PAF has done the so called impossible !


randomradio said:


> That engine is obviously too small to be the MKI's.
> 
> You can crawl into the MKI's engines.

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## dilpakistani

ice_man said:


> where are the pictures of the other 2 arrested? ISPR said 2 arrested one Abhi and other guy in CMH and injured.


Yup only one


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## Jinn Baba

May he other one passed away. His plane after all shot from the air.

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## Areesh

Probably confusion in reporting in fog of war

@Sneaker You are right for once. Enjoy

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## sparten

He says Pakistan Army. Not Pakistan in general.


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## bafxet

Imran Khan said:


> He will go back home


Yes, but indian are thankless. You release them and they will speak greatly about you only till such time that they cross the border.


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## SHAH07

Cash GK said:


> dead


That’s very strange coz indians also claimed only 1 pilot missing... n we had initial reports of 3 is custody and than ISPR confirmed 2 and now only 1 :/


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## Cash GK

hassan zohaib said:


> In his first press conference, DG ISPR said that he had two pilots in his captivity- one in custody n other is in GHQ but now he claims that he has only one in his captivity. So what has changed, either it was misinformation or some changes in strategy?


may be some civilian got under wikag or dead.


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## Salza

Areesh said:


> Probably confusion in reporting in fog of war
> 
> @Sneaker You are right for once. Enjoy



Actually locals injured him badly and he couldn't survive. Couldn't give his badly tortured body to Indians.


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## Shot-Caller

Viny said:


> View attachment 542486
> 
> 
> Where did the other one from hospital vanished


Probably met his maker in the hospital.


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## CHACHA"G"

It is very fine if we have only one … I don't mind if we only shoot down one jet...… But I will still speculate . Only 2 things can happen . 

Change of strategy .. and Because IAF only accepted one Jet down so who cares 
Piolet is dead .. and Because IAF only accepted one Jet down so who cares


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## Maarkhoor

randomradio said:


> He was flying a Mig-21 Bison when it was shot down. Our pilots move between different birds.


Tu manyen na pavyen bhund paat jaye.


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## SHAH07

Areesh said:


> Probably confusion in reporting in fog of war
> 
> @Sneaker You are right for once. Enjoy


Can’t expect this from ISPR


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## Viny

Daghalodi said:


> I think DG ISPR said there is only one! Looks like we couldnt save the other one from Kashmiri people


He already said the other one is in CMS and receiving medical support.


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## N.Siddiqui

Windjammer said:


> *Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui after giving surprise to the Indians.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/




*Thunder drawing First Blood...*

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## Meengla

arbit said:


> The de escalation option was given earlier but your airforce fed up with all the taunts decided to attack military installations in morning. That was escalating. So military assets would now become legit targets.



No. Your planes had crossed the LoC because and your bombs landed well inside Pakistani territory. The Pulwana attack--well, Pakistan had seen plenty of such inside Pakistan and almost certainly India had a hand in at least some of them. But did Pakistani Airforce ever crossed the Durand Line?
Fact is: You guys are arrogant, war-mongering, occupiers. You are drunk with power--from your good economy--and from the bought-out backing of Uncle Sam and your darling the Israelis. You are drunk from the power which comes from bullying countries like Bangladesh.
It is YOU who should have listened to Imran Khan's earlier offer to work things out.

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## Wasteland

randomradio said:


> He was flying a Mig-21 Bison when it was shot down. Our pilots move between different birds.




wow that's the stupidest thing i have ever heard. When a pilot transitions (if needed) they take the best of the previous class to move to the next class. They don't transition from high-end to lower classes. lmao

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## Maarkhoor

Viny said:


> View attachment 542485
> 
> 
> Where did the hospital guy vanished ...


Bagwan k pass


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## Foxtrot Delta

hassan zohaib said:


> In his first press conference, DG ISPR said that he had two pilots in his captivity- one in custody n other is in GHQ but now he claims that he has only one in his captivity. So what has changed, either it was misinformation or some changes in strategy?



2nd one was injured.. Probably died.


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## Alpha BeeTee

That's a clear a U turn.

Probably Pakistan offering India a face saver in exchange for descalation.

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## Joe Shearer

Mav3rick said:


> Just the other night, men in same uniform and team bombed and destroyed 3 trees in Azad Kashmir. Their intention was to bomb civilians so when one of their's is shot down, this should be expected. Besides, how is it different when men in the same uniform bomb civilians? Unless you mean to say that it is ok for your pilots to bomb civilians from a Jet and not ok for those civilians to take revenge on the same enemy.



First, I question your facts. That was not the area targetted, and setting off a few explosives to justify a diversionary tale of much ado about nothing is old hat.

Second, it flows from that that a general surge of patriotic enthusiasm is not enough to warrant brutish behaviour. As mentioned, it is in the highest degree unlikely that there was any attack on their area.



> Not just Kashmir, I was referring to the larger Pakistani population; you may not have noticed but we have been victims of your terrorism for a very long time. And Pakistanis feel the pain of victims of your terrorism regardless of the distance between them.



No, I did not notice.

I did notice, however, loud cries of accusation when your own home-grown thugs started running amuck. 

These attempts at refinement and at distinguishing between good Taliban and bad Taliban impresses nobody but yourselves.


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## Rasengan

shahbaz baig said:


> first pak Army recused him from mobs, and now he is enjoying tea.
> Logo ko marnay detay, enough is enough. They don't want peace.



We are Muslim's, therefore, we follow the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Letting the mob kill or torture him no matter how justified they feel is wrong Islamically and we are a civilized nation...not bloodthirsty barbarians.


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## JonAsad

Viny said:


> View attachment 542487
> 
> 
> Where did the other pilot which was put into CMS disappeared


Bad luck for him - we will investigate him secretly- 

this one is scared to death - lol

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## Daghalodi

Viny said:


> He already said the other one is in CMS and receiving medical support.



I guess he is no more!! We couldnt save him. Kashmiri people showered him with love and atoot ang

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## hassan zohaib

Imran Khan said:


> Its fine even if one


Now it seems sir your confidence is being restored again..?
Anyway, i m happy to read that...

Even i was depressed yesterday which i can't describe in words but now a sense of sigh has been taken....

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## CHACHA"G"

Salza said:


> Actually locals injured him badly and he couldn't survive. Couldn't give his badly tortured body to Indians.


 honestly this can happen , why we get bas name for Pakistan after giving them badly tortured body .. What ever it is . . . we will have some more details in coming days,,


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## AyanRay

Areesh said:


> Two as per ISPR



No, they now made a U turn, it's one

Most probably PA thought the F-16 which went down was another Mig.



Pak-Canuck said:


> JF-17 just shot down a SU-30 boys
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...olating-pakistan-airspace-pilots-held-captive
> 
> That's a Su-30 rear!!!!



Make up your mind first. Ik claimed 2 migs were shot down and 2 pilots were held captive. Then ISPR made a U turn claiming only one pilot is held.


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## Areesh

AyanRay said:


> No, they now made a U turn, it's one
> 
> Most probably PA thought the F-16 which went down was another Mig.



That f16 whose wreckage doesn't exist??

No uturn. Simply some confusion in midst of war

Happens. Doesn't mean your false claims of F1 are true


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## Viny

Imran Khan said:


> Sadly he was burnt totally after his jet crashed in iok



But in previous press release, DGISPR said they have 2 pilots, the other one is getting treated at CMS



sohail.ishaque said:


> start using the words, "kindly, please, pardon" etc in your comments. Just a suggestion.
> Same goes for the rest of india.



I guess you just came from your learn british english classes..
Keep practicing, you will improve..


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

arbit said:


> Doesn't matter now. This is turning into something that you will regret. People here on this side are very clear.


It needs to stop. Neither side will back down if this continues and that will lead to full fledged war. Time for Modi to tone down his war mongering and take up Imran Khan's (umpteenth) offer for resolving issues through talks.

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## Imran Khan

Viny said:


> But in previous press release, DGISPR said they have 2 pilots, the other one is getting treated at CMS
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you just came from your learn british english classes..
> Keep practicing, you will improve..


Yes i have really no idea about this


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## Areesh

Locals saying there were more than one pilots


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100742894045024258

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## Salza

CHACHA"G" said:


> honestly this can happen , why we get bas name for Pakistan after giving them badly tortured body .. What ever it is . . . we will have some more details in coming days,,



Actually my source already confirmed me this an hour back that he is dead and his body badly beaten by mob.


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## JonAsad

The second pilot is fine as well - we will keep him hidden for investigations -


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## War Thunder

Arsalan 345 said:


> what a hit.this other pilot lost his leg.



Poor guy didnt get a chance to eject i guess.
Not a good day for his family.

Modi to blame...

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## YeBeWarned

Kashmiri will now have more confidence on Pakistan , Allah will give you Freedom just have Patience brothers , we will not let your blood go in vain , we dedicate these 2 downed fighters to Kashmiri People .

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## ProudPak

Sneaker said:


> Flt Lt Nachiketa who was PoW during Kargil is still serving. But ejection is a hard thing, if he is medically fit, he will serve India once again..


Oh he is one of yours after all.



Sher Shah Awan said:


> We don't need to speculate. I have firm conviction in our armed forces to treat a POW with dignity and respect. Individuals are mere pawns in the wider game, and I hope he is reunited with his family as soon as possible.


Well at least his family know he is alive well and safe

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## Raider 21

Wasteland said:


> wow that's the stupidest thing i have ever heard. When a pilot transitions (if needed) they take the best of the previous class to move to the next class. They don't transition from high-end to lower classes. lmao


It is not stupid. Different postings occur.

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## Indus Pakistan

He was over the moon when he found out they have something called 'toilets' in Pakistan. He was given breifing in how to use it appropriately.

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## monitor

RangeMaster said:


> They saved me from mob.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100734821666570240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100737102491381761


But this picture is disturbing Pakistan must treat him well as a Islamic country you cannot manhandled a POW should treat him well .
Pic1 : No injury on his face when he was caught by Pakistani Army or local 
Pic2 : blooded face Isn't it violation of *Geneva convention*?
I hope that's final injury he had or have to face . 
No more till he returns to his family .

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## AyanRay

Areesh said:


> That f16 whose wreckage doesn't exist??
> 
> No uturn. Simply some confusion in midst of war
> 
> Happens. Doesn't mean your false claims of F1 are true



Some confusion? Your ISPR claimed that the other pilot was in hospital. Later they understood that he was in fact a PAF pilot.

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## Areesh

SHAH07 said:


> Can’t expect this from ISPR



Happens in war. Not a big deal



Salza said:


> Actually my source already confirmed me this an hour back that he is dead and his body badly beaten by mob.



If it is true then bharation nai randi rona macha daina hai.

This might explain the chai Abhi nanden is enjoying in that video

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## Imran Khan

Sad part for indians is kashmiris chanting it infront of them

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## graphican

We had seen another injured Indian pilot fallen with his video. Is Pakistan agreeing with India to downplay this incident?


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## Great Janjua

AyanRay said:


> Some confusion? Your ISPR claimed that the other pilot was in hospital. Later they understood that he was in fact a PAF pilot.


No need to worry things will be back to normal when India asks for its second pilot


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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> It needs to stop. Neither side will back down if this continues and that will lead to full fledged war. Time for Modi to tone down his war mongering and take up Imran Khan's (umpteenth) offer for resolving issues through talks.



There will be no wider war, as both sides will see the wisdom in standing down. It will take a few days but de-escalation will happen, gradually and surely.


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## Areesh

AyanRay said:


> Some confusion? Your ISPR claimed that the other pilot was in hospital. *Later they understood that he was in fact a PAF pilot.*



Yeah confusion. Happens in a war. 

Bold part is your assumption since you need some face saving after humiliation that you got today.


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## Imran Khan

Just treat him as per geneva convension

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## Reichsmarschall

@Areesh those mki pilots are gold mines we ain't giving them back

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## hamilcar of carthage

hope the other pilots are safe cause it would be a very bad thing for pakistan army they couldnt even keep a pilot safe from local hope he is safe hope pakistan keeps the better stance


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## graphican

sparten said:


> He says Pakistan Army. Not Pakistan in general.



Who you guys portray as devils? Pakistanis or Pakistani Army?


----------



## Mughal-Prince

Zarvan said:


>



Aaj tau tu bhi puppy dey dai ... Aik puppy idher [emoji8] Dosri Udher [emoji8]


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## Cuirassier

So only one MiG-21 was downed as per ISPR hint


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## Areesh

Reichsmarschall said:


> @Areesh those mki pilots are gold mines we ain't giving them back



Possible


----------



## Imran Khan

monitor said:


> But this picture is disturbing Pakistan must treat him well as a Islamic country you cannot manhandled a POW should treat him well .
> Pic1 : No injury on his face when he was caught by Pakistani Army or local
> Pic2 : blooded face Isn't it violation of *Geneva convention*?
> I hope that's final injury he had or have to face .
> No more till he returns to his family .


They are kashmiris . Video is not full episode army may tried hard to save him even after recording


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## CHACHA"G"

If they were really Su-30 piolets and if they did fire on civilians then I am sure both are dead , beaten by civilians so Pakistan change the policy …… 
I am sure IAF will never announce Su-30 down or Mig-29 down , so we don't have to worry ,, But if India and IAF said openly they lost another bird and Ask Pakistan for piolets then we have to give them body or bodies or alive piolets ..

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## Bossman

Over the last few week India has lost almost a squadron of jets in multiple crashes and now engagement with PAF.


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## Jango

blain2 said:


> That looks like a Mig-29 tail. Can members confirm?


This is an old image.


----------



## Imran Khan

hassan zohaib said:


> Now it seems sir your confidence is being restored again..?
> Anyway, i m happy to read that...
> 
> Even i was depressed yesterday which i can't describe in words but now a sense of sigh has been taken....


Yes i am confedent that we an airforce too .i waited some 20 years for paf to react

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

bananarepublic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695465157373952
> reason why he got bloody nose


Kashmiri Locals beating him up? Looks like the PA was trying to protect him.


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## litman

if india further escalates the situtation in kashmir then they surely will lose kashmir . it will become a situation which pakistan faced in east pak in 71.


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## N.Siddiqui

Indus Pakistan said:


> He was over the moon when he found out they have something called 'toilets' in Pakistan. He was given breifing in how to use it appropriately.




Ironically Pilots have all pipes and war diapers attached to their Singlet for peeing and pooping as well(just in case of emergency, seeing PAF pilots)...they are used to 'no use of toilets'.

On the ground it is another matter...


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## Windjammer



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## The Eagle

KRAIT said:


> Brigade HQ was the target of PAF. Escalation is increasing.



Just don't cause more panic for yourself & men even on that side of border. Do you have any idea how many funerals would have been help up by India at the moment if Indian Army Brigade HQ was struck by PAF? At least, it will take days to clear ground & pick up bodies, in-case as such.

No more trolling here.

Regards,

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## monitor

Imran Khan said:


> They are kashmiris . Video is not full episode army may tried hard to save him even after recording



May be . Pakistan Army done a great job by saving him from to angry mob . now treat him as per Islamic law for POW so that increase image of Pakistan farther .

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## Khatri_pune

RoadRunner401 said:


> *Dawn*
> The state of Pakistan, the government of Pakistan, the Armed Forces of Pakistan and the people of Pakistan have always conveyed a message of peace to India, and the route to peace goes through the way of 'dialogue'. Both countries have nuclear capabilities, but war is actually the failure of policy, which India needs to understand.


Yeah right.... But the problem is that they keep supporting terrorists as a state policy against India....
So these are empty words...


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## CHACHA"G"

hamilcar of carthage said:


> hope the other pilots are safe cause it would be a very bad thing for pakistan army they couldnt even keep a pilot safe from local hope he is safe hope pakistan keeps the better stance


Local social media saying , 2 piolets resist arrest , they fired at civilians …… My guess civilians got them before Forces get to them , And ………………………………………………. First India and IAF have to accept there were 2 birds down and have to tell about both birds...….


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## SHAH07

Areesh said:


> Happens in war. Not a big deal
> 
> 
> 
> If it is true then bharation nai randi rona macha daina hai.
> 
> This might explain the chai Abhi nanden is enjoying in that video


But they have also said only one pilot missing...
n BTW they haven’t announced that who died in the plane that crashed with in IOK, so May be Pakistan playing games with them...


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## AsianLion

Allah-u-Akbar. 

Great Victory by Pakistan, Can not believe Pakistan shot two Indian Jets, Su-30 and Mig-21. Man that's brilliant...as whole of Pakistan is beginning to hear the big news, its awesome.

Heard Pakistani Awam caught the Indian Wing Commander, Abhinandan, and beat the shit out of him before handing over to Pak Army Personnel.

We need to know all plans, games and future from this Pilot? The Indian Wing Commander is a great victory trophy as Pakistan always beat India in all wars before us.

This is real Surgical Strike !!!!


----------



## ice_man

it is really reassuring that kashmiris are with us.

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## AyanRay

Areesh said:


> Yeah confusion. Happens in a war.
> 
> Bold part is your assumption since you need some face saving after humiliation that you got today.



Again stop this crap about confusion. Some locals might have found the injured PAF pilot and admitted him to a nearby hospital. Thinking that he is a IAF pilot, PA started celebrating. There were fairly confirmed news coming out that an F-16 crashed near the LAM valley. It could be a case of friendly fire,. But one thing is sure, both IAF and PAF lost a jet each today.

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## Windjammer



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## War Thunder

This is the other one they moved to CMH.
Doesn't look like in any shape to have survived.


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## Imran Khan

monitor said:


> May be . Pakistan Army done a great job by saving him from to angry mob . now treat him as per Islamic law for POW so that increase image of Pakistan farther .


If you ever know pain and anger in kashmiris hearts its not surprised me

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## Meengla

Starlord said:


> IAF did miscalculated again and try their luck to enter Pakistan once again thinking that PAF will not engage or shot them down .. I guess they learn their lesson the hard way.



If IAF indeed tried to cross the LoC again then they are truly dumb-asses!!


----------



## Srinivas

Indus Pakistan said:


> Yeh, yeh. Been waiting for 70 years. If you can get your Bangla mates to help you then I might be slightly worried but you guy's alone. Come and get more slaps if you want. You got warned by PM IK to desist but you did not. Now two of your fighters got shot up with pilots captured ...
> 
> Now be a good boy and go call the Banglas to the rescue ...
> 
> Here listen to Indian wing commander Abhinandan enjoying Pakistani hospitality. He really appreciates having something called a 'toilet'.



Expected in a state of war, some days are yours some are ours. Important thing is if our objectives are met.

There is no reason for us to not to punish the guys who supported and exported terror.


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## Wasteland

Knuckles said:


> It is not stupid. Different postings occur.




Occur if needed, why would an MKI pilot fly a Mig21? was there a shortage? i can understand a SU-30 pilot flying a SU-27, , or a Mirage pilot flying a Rafale or vice versa, But from SU to MIG? and MIG 21?

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## Foxtrot Delta

Hmm indian kashmiriz chanting for pakistan on a dead body of indian pilot. Cool

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## R Wing

Can the ISPR please give the Pakistani and international media full proof of TWO Indian jets shot down so the Indian media can't hide it anymore???

Why is it still a mystery?!

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## CHACHA"G"

Sneaker said:


> Flt Lt Nachiketa who was PoW during Kargil is still serving. But ejection is a hard thing, if he is medically fit, he will serve India once again..


He will go under intensive briefings and de-briefings and medical tests …… If he passed all the he can .. It depend on your Airforce...…

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## hassan zohaib

ahmedlatif said:


> Have a look this video


Kashmir is gonna b resolved now...
Its right time for making indian public opinion..
They must b made understand that Kashmir is bone of contention between us so it must b resolved otherwise peace is a distant dream..


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## YeBeWarned

Meengla said:


> If IAF indeed tried to cross the LoC again then they are truly dumb-asses!!



Over-confidence my friend, it can take down big players down into the dirt ..


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## AsianLion

Oh damn Indian Occupied Kashmiris chanting abuse against the downed Indian Aircraft, India has lost Kashmir and Srinagar effectively!!!!!

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## Patriots

Entering Our Territory Is Your Own Choice
Turning You Into Pieces Is Mine ...

P.S :- Squadron Leader Hassan Who Shot Down One Of The Indian Air Craft This Morning .....

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## Sneaker

AyanRay said:


> Again stop this crap about confusion. Some locals might have found the injured PAF pilot and admitted him to a nearby hospital. Thinking that he is a IAF pilot, PA started celebrating. There were fairly confirmed news coming out that an F-16 crashed near the LAM valley. It could be a case of friendly fire,. But one thing is sure, both IAF and PAF lost a jet each today.



It is common tactic to claim to be their own country's pilot inorder to evade. So people might not have believed PAF pilot at first..



Areesh said:


> That f16 whose wreckage doesn't exist??
> 
> No uturn. Simply some confusion in midst of war
> 
> Happens. Doesn't mean your false claims of F1 are true



Oh, the wreckage exists.. just not being allowed/circulated over the net..

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## Khatri_pune

VCheng said:


> There will be no wider war, as both sides will see the wisdom in standing down. It will take a few days but de-escalation will happen, gradually and surely.


Yeah... Seen the statement of your Vazireazam.... 
In couple of days the only option to you will be surrendering...


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## Telescopic Sight

One more theory , since I know you folks like conspiracy theories more than any other country in the world:
The second plane and the second pilot was the PaF F-16 ! 
Think about the possibility: Why else would ISPR be so confident about Command Hospital and all that ?

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## litman

monitor said:


> But this picture is disturbing Pakistan must treat him well as a Islamic country you cannot manhandled a POW should treat him well .
> Pic1 : No injury on his face when he was caught by Pakistani Army or local
> Pic2 : blooded face Isn't it violation of *Geneva convention*?
> I hope that's final injury he had or have to face .
> No more till he returns to his family .


he was beaten up by the gen public. they dont know much about geneva convention and they dont care . they just want to take revenge.

but we also have to admit that indian pilot in custody is also a brave and confident.

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## Ahmad Bhutta

isnt it the helicopter Mi7 which crashed in india? how can we be sure that its also a plane


----------



## ghazi52

*Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor*‏Verified account @OfficialDGISPR
There is only one pilot under Pakistan Army’s custody. Wing Comd Abhi Nandan is being treated as per norms of military ethics.


----------



## The Accountant

Wasteland said:


> Occur if needed, why would an MKI pilot fly a Mig21? was there a shortage? i can understand a SU-30 pilot flying a SU-27, , or a Mirage pilot flying a Rafale or vice versa, But from SU to MIG? and MIG 21?


Yes


----------



## Imran Khan

Tabdeeli a gai hai aaj


----------



## VCheng

Khatri_pune said:


> Yeah... Seen the statement of your Vazireazam....
> In couple of days the only option to you will be surrendering...



There will be no surrender, but a gradual stand down to the usual stand-off, by both sides.


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> Oh, the wreckage exists.. just not being allowed/circulated over the net..



Just like those 300 dead bodies of militants that don't exist anywhere?

You guys literally have no shame. Despite what happened today you are here with all your filthy erxistencd making false claims.



AyanRay said:


> But one thing is sure, both IAF and PAF lost a jet each today.



In your imagination to feel good when Pakistan is humiliating you daily this might be true

But not in reality

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## Vortex

Wasteland said:


> Occur if needed, why would an MKI pilot fly a Mig21? was there a shortage? i can understand a SU-30 pilot flying a SU-27, , or a Mirage pilot flying a Rafale or vice versa, But from SU to MIG? and MIG 21?



And why risking a Su qualified pilot on the flying coffin too ? A twin engine aircraft and a single engine aircraft ? Isn’t risky policy?


----------



## Telescopic Sight

Sneaker said:


> It is common tactic to claim to be their own country's pilot inorder to evade. So people might not have believed PAF pilot at first..
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the wreckage exists.. just not being allowed/circulated over the net..




Congratulations , you were proven right !!! 
Plus now it does look more and more likely that PAF did lose some jet too .

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## Wasteland

The Accountant said:


> Yes



Yes what? for training purposes of course, but in time of conflict, you want your pilots to fly what they fly best, no?


----------



## HAIDER

So, where are JF17 haters ........ 100 percent success rate on AA to AG mission.

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## ice_man

Viny said:


> View attachment 542485
> 
> 
> Where did the hospital guy vanished ...



be happy we have one. the other died with his plane. sadly. may he Rest in Peace


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

ahmedlatif said:


> Have a look this video


Look at these brave the people of Kashmir are!
Crushed by the worlds “largest democracy” and yet resilient.

I salute these people..after this video I think any cost is acceptable for their freedom.

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## Areesh

Telescopic Sight said:


> Plus now it does look more and more likely that PAF did lose some jet too .



Oh really? Where is the wreckage? Or at least a video that air craft is going down.

Whats with your achievements in past few years that only exist in your minds and not in reality??

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## Goenitz

we should keep his uniform.....

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## War Thunder

Viny said:


> Where did the other one who was put into CMS went :o



I hope he is not this guy, because if yes then he suffered a terrible fate, and nothing the folk at CMH could salvage.

Or they just dont want to acknowledge his capture because anyway indians said only one was missing thus giving them a chance to keep him as a gust for a very long time.


----------



## ProudPak

SABRE said:


> Why a pilot extensively trained on & for Su-30MKI was given a MiG-21 to go against a formidable adversary? He is an IAF asset & they sent him for suicide. Its like bringing knife to a gun fight.


He expected a tin can called jf17. Instead the jf17 today lost in viginity. Our baby is now a man

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## Telescopic Sight

Areesh said:


> Oh really? Where is the wreckage? Or at least a video that air craft is going down.
> 
> Whats with your achievements in past few years that only exist in your minds and not in reality??



WHy would PAF admit to such a loss? As it is , they are pushing clips showing the pilots next the FC 1s. When Kaiser Tufail himself says that it was F16 only.


----------



## POPEYE-Sailor

Viny said:


> View attachment 542485
> 
> 
> Where did the hospital guy vanished ...



He looks fine no need to admit in hospital..!! wana war ?? or have dialogue ?


----------



## litman

Telescopic Sight said:


> One more theory , since I know you folks like conspiracy theories more than any other country in the world:
> The second plane and the second pilot was the PaF F-16 !
> Think about the possibility: Why else would ISPR be so confident about Command Hospital and all that ?


these days it is not easy to hide your losses. social media shows everything. even if pakistani jet crashed in pakistan there would have been some photos of the wreckage and the pilot and if it would have been in india then they would have been jumping with excitement.


----------



## Champs Trophy 2017

Proud of you _*Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui *_for making India our bi*ch today.


----------



## Sugarcane

Viny said:


> View attachment 542485
> 
> 
> Where did the hospital guy vanished ...



Died, we don't want Modi to put in position where some crazy sitting in tv studio pressurize him for another adventure to take revenge.


----------



## ghazi52

Recapping effects on aviation due to India-Pakistan situation. Additional updates will be posted at https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/tensions-between-india-and-pakistan-affect-air-traffic/ …


----------



## 不做大哥好多年

Congrats Pakistan Bro

But I guess the other aircraft dropped by itself rather than being shot down just like other Indian weapon you know, submarine and tanks etc, leave it along and it will drop by itself, I am serious. I didn't even mention their aircraft carrier has two more times in the water than Chinese one, just like Indian always claim they have more stuff than others.

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## HAIDER

Picture of the day .

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## Areesh

Telescopic Sight said:


> WHy would PAF admit to such a loss? As it is , they are pushing clips showing the pilots next the FC 1s. When Kaiser Tufail himself says that it was F16 only.



Then where are the pics or video of F16 wreckage or it getting shot down?

There is nothing to prove that. Except Indians who need a face saving after today's thrashing

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## Amigator

We should give him nationality, cuz Pakistanis are having soft corner for him now


----------



## farhan_9909

KRAIT said:


> He was flying Mig 21 Bison.



Yes but Su 30 wreckage is on indian side

karma maybe for mocking jf-17

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## Viny

Maarkhoor said:


> Bagwan k pass





ice_man said:


> be happy we have one. the other died with his plane. sadly. may he Rest in Peace



Hmm...
Or is it that Imran Khan and DGISPR where building false stories of lies...or where they confused with one of there pilot probably form so call F16 that was shot..


----------



## Swordbreaker12

*India Pakistan: Kashmir fighting sees Indian aircraft downed*






Image copyrightAFP
Image captionPakistani soldiers by what Pakistan says is wreckage from a downed Indian jet

Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian military jets and captured a pilot in a major escalation between the nuclear powers over Kashmir. 

India said it lost one MiG21 fighter and a pilot was missing in action.

Pakistani PM Imran Khan said the two sides could not afford a miscalculation with the weapons they had.

India and Pakistan - both nuclear-armed states - claim all of Kashmir, but control only parts of it. 

They have fought three wars since independence from Britain and partition in 1947. All but one were over Kashmir.


----------



## Sneaker

ahmedlatif said:


> Have a look this video



Mi-17 lost due to technical snag, long away from LOC.


----------



## ghazi52

Great ...


----------



## ILC

So, what is official statement what happened in the end?


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Telescopic Sight said:


> One more theory , since I know you folks like conspiracy theories more than any other country in the world:
> The second plane and the second pilot was the PaF F-16 !
> Think about the possibility: Why else would ISPR be so confident about Command Hospital and all that ?


The death of an infantry soldier might be able to be hidden, but the loss of fighter jets, especially given the limited number the PAF has, are not going to stay hidden for long, especially in this age of smartphones everywhere.

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## SHAH07

Indians haven’t announced the name of pilot killed in this crash...


----------



## Telescopic Sight

Areesh said:


> Then where are the pics or video of F16 wreckage or it getting shot down?
> 
> There is nothing to prove that. Except Indians who need a face saving after today's thrashing



Obviously these are all just guesses right now. And obviously I hope some solid proof will come out.
As far as face saving, I dont know whether even the wreckage of the F16 on CNN and BBC will be enough for Modi to save his face.
Which is why I think many of these people cheering ( incl. you) are not seeing the possiblity of widening conflict.


----------



## 313ghazi

MashaAllah. May Allah grant him a long life and many victories.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

SURPRISE mother f****

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## Areesh

Telescopic Sight said:


> Obviously these are all just guesses right now. And obviously I hope some solid proof will come out.
> As far as face saving, I dont know whether even the wreckage of the F16 on CNN and BBC will be enough for Modi to save his face.
> Which is why I think many of these people cheering ( incl. you) are not seeing the possiblity of widening conflict.



No solid proof won't come out. If some F16 would have been shot down then we would have cell phone videos or pictures of it by now. Just like Indian aircraft. 

Modi has an egg on his face. Let him handle that. But we won't let Indians use lies to handle that egg.


----------



## Telescopic Sight

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The death of an infantry soldier might be able to be hidden, but the loss of fighter jets, especially given the limited number the PAF has, are not going to stay hidden for long, especially in this age of smartphones everywhere.



I agree. I will also copy paste my own comment : 

Obviously these are all just guesses right now. And obviously I hope some solid proof will come out.
As far as face saving, I dont know whether even the wreckage of the F16 on CNN and BBC will be enough for Modi to save his face.
Which is why I think many of these people cheering are not seeing the possiblity of widening conflict.

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## Muhammad Omar

Jab wo bhonkein China maal show them these

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## Vortex

War Thunder said:


> I hope he is not this guy, because if yes then he suffered a terrible fate, and nothing the folk at CMH could salvage.
> 
> Or they just dont want to acknowledge his capture because anyway indians said only one was missing thus giving them a chance to keep him as a gust for a very long time.



Which language are they talking in the video ?


----------



## ghazi52

SpiceJet flight #SG22 on average takes about 1h 40min. Today the flight time will be around 5h 40min because the flight is avoiding Pakistani airspace https://www.flightradar24.com/SEJ022/1fa2695e


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## Knight Rider

So the Flight Lieutenant piloting the second JF-17 killed the SU-30MKI. Wowwwwwwwwww !!!!

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## SABRE

ProudPak said:


> He expected a tin can called jf17. Instead the jf17 today lost in viginity. Our baby is now a man



Would have been fun if it was LCA instead of MiG-21. It just got its operational clearance after all.

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## Progressive Conservative

War Thunder said:


> This is the other one they moved to CMH.
> Doesn't look like in any shape to have survived.



What plane is this? Is this the Sukhoi?


----------



## Windjammer

It's reported that Wing Commander Faheem, flying JF-17 serial No-102 was the other pilot who shot down the SU-30.

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## Maarkhoor

Viny said:


> F16 that was shot..


Where is wreckage of F-16 dear Viny? 

Kal suba jab khaytoun mien jal paani karney jao tu doondna Ok...lotay k sath sath phone b leti jana.

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## siegecrossbow

Windjammer said:


> It's reported that Wing Commander Faheem, flying JF-17 serial No-102 was the other pilot who shot down the SU-30.



Do you have a linked source for this?


----------



## AsianLion

*Shooting Indian Figther Jets: The Story of Pakistan Airforce Retaliation: Real Surgical Strike on India*
*
Date : 27/Feb/2019*

*Pakistan Airforce Force jets Intruded into Indian air space and locked on to 6 Indian army buildings but missed the target and let the bombs drop near the targets. This was done as planned.

As India jets took off and came close , all but one PAF jet came back to Pakistani air space.

The single jet remained inside India and lured Indian jets closer.

As Indian jets came close the last remaining Pakistani jet also crossed into Pakistani territory, gained altitude and speed and sped off.

On Pakistani side a few Thunders were waiting as planned and as soon as Indian jets crossed into Pakistan, they were shot and destroyed.

At least one fell inside Pakistani territory and another fell inside Indian occupied Kashmir. 

Every move was meticulously planned. All this planning within a few hours of the so called Indian Surgical strike.

They destroyed our trees in 4 locations. We did the same in 6 of theirs.

We did even better and shot down their jets and at least one Indian pilot is now in Pakistani custody. In all India lost two advanced Fighter jets and Three pilots.

This is called real "Surgical Strike" with the precision of a surgeon. The revenge is taken sweetly.

Remember wars are won and lost by a "Nation" not just the army..PAF did what the Pakistan nation wanted it to do.

As long as we are together in this we will prevail InshaAllah.

Who was the Pilot who lured Indian Pilots into Pakistan? He is the real braveheart hero!!!

What a victory: PAF did what Pakistani Awam wanted it to do: Pakistan Zindabad - Revenge is Sweet 

We should be humble with our victories - what Allah(swt) has given us, and thank him for his blessings and pain!

*

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## War Thunder

Progressive Conservative said:


> What plane is this? Is this the Sukhoi?



Idk looks like the mig to me, but also if you check teh language and dressing of the locals. This might as well be the plane that crashed in IOK.


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## Beethoven

Windjammer said:


> It's reported that Wing Commander Faheem, flying JF-17 serial No-102 was the other pilot who shot down the SU-30.


There is still a lot of ambiguity surrounding the downing of the second aircraft...some say it was a Mig some claim it to be a Mirage and the third version states it to be a Su 30


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## mjnaushad

randomradio said:


> He was flying a Mig-21 Bison when it was shot down. Our pilots move between different birds.


This way everybody gets a chance to fly the coffin i.e the migs.



Maarkhoor said:


> Where is wreckage of F-16 dear Viny?
> 
> Kal suba jab khaytoun mien jal paani karney jao tu doondna Ok...lotay k sath sath phone b leti jana.


Laga rehne do. Kiya farq parta hai.


----------



## Hellfire

Sugarcane said:


> Died, we don't want Modi to put in position where some crazy sitting in tv studio pressurize him for another adventure to take revenge.




LoL that was a good one

@VCheng How are the popcorns coming? Watch the intake lest more calories are gained in a quick span of time.

Establish a Supply Chain ... we may just need it.


Anyways on point

@CriticalThought 01 x Mig 21 Shot down as it chased your AC across LC. A2A claimed him along with a nice cover of fire from SAMs launched by PA. Overall, a good 'trap' if that was the intent.

The wreckage you see of the second is a Mi-17 lost to technical fault overflying Budgam. Nothing to do with any Su-30 other than in own imaginations.


@randomradio 

Having fun as usual?

As for F-16, 01 x F-16 confirmed 'kill' ..... through multiple cross checks (still taking it). I have tried to keep it as confirmed as I can (although still allowing for the bragging which comes in such incidents). Shot by Mig-21 Bison.

Used both service and civil sources on ground ..... 

That may be the Officer at CMH .... @Sugarcane 

Hope he is fine and not dead.

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## ghazi52

Squadron Leader Hassan Who Shot Down One Of The Indian Air Craft This Morning .

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## OB909Alpha

Buckle up boys more chicken dinners to come!


----------



## Path-Finder



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## Sneaker

Beethoven said:


> There is still a lot of ambiguity surrounding the downing of the second aircraft...some say it was a Mig some claim it to be a Mirage and the third version states it to be a Su 30



There is a fourth version.. it is a PAF jet.


----------



## Comet

This video shows S/L Hassan with JF-17


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100723919802298369

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## Imran Khan

ghazi52 said:


> SpiceJet flight #SG22 on average takes about 1h 40min. Today the flight time will be around 5h 40min because the flight is avoiding Pakistani airspace https://www.flightradar24.com/SEJ022/1fa2695e


This is what i was talking few days ago


----------



## maximuswarrior

Khatri_pune said:


> Yeah right.... But the problem is that they keep supporting terrorists as a state policy against India....
> So these are empty words...



Stop raping and killing innocent Kashmiris. Simple.

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> There is a fourth version.. it is a PAF jet.



And that version is believed in by Indians only who need something to recover their ego

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## TOPGUN

Sneaker said:


> There is a fourth version.. it is a PAF jet.



In your dreams lolz

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## Hyde

We are proud of you *Squadron Leader Hassan Sadiqui!

Tumgha-e-Shujaat for you!
*
I hope JF-17 will be taken seriously by other countries from today onwards and expect more orders for this bird

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## Sneaker

TOPGUN said:


> In your dreams lolz



Just repeating the Indian emblem.. Satyameva jayate.. Truth will prevail.


----------



## drunken-monke

Muhammad Omar said:


> Indian Air force Veteran Pilot on PAF's action against IAF
> 
> View attachment 542454


Its a fake ID.. I have checked..

It says, use do not exist..


----------



## randomradio

Wasteland said:


> wow that's the stupid thing i have ever heard. When a pilot transitions (if needed) they take the best of the previous class to move to the next class. They don't transition from high-end to lower classes. lmao



Due to the old age of the Bisons, we only have senior pilots on the fleet. So a lot of pilots get moved to the Bisons. The MKIs get new pilots.

So MKI pilots who have accrued experience are also moved to the Mig-21.


----------



## Han Patriot

SHAH07 said:


> Indians haven’t announced the name of pilot killed in this crash...


As usual, they were silent on Doklam too. They claimed we left, satellite imagery proved otherwise. LOL

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## Pakhtoon yum



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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> Just repeating the Indian emblem.. Satyameva jayate.. Truth will prevail.



It surely does. We have Wing Commander of IAF to prove that.


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> And that version is believed in by Indians only who need something to recover their ego



That news came long before news of downing Mig..



Areesh said:


> It surely does. We have Wing Commander of IAF to prove that.



You possible have the "second pilot" as well.


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> That news came long before news of downing Mig..



Many news come. Not all are true like mig one


----------



## ghazi52

*Ex-IAF pilot says ‘moral of Indian troops down’ after Pakistan hits back*







NEW DELHI: Former Indian pilot Ram Parkash has said that shooting down of two Indian Air Force aircrafts was a major setback for IAF.

In a Tweet, the former Indian IAF pilot said, “we lost 2 MiG 21 and 3 pilots. Its a major set back for IAF.”

He went on to say, ‘I just talked to a wing commander who is there in Indian occupied Kashmir that moral is down after this heavy loss.”

Ram Parkash also thanked Pakistan for treating well arrested Indian Wing Commander Abhinandan.

“We are thankful to Pakistan as per videos they are treating them well also providing medical care.”


Pakistan Air Force on Wednesday struck down two Indian fighter jets intruding Pakistani airspace, in a valiant and befitting response to Indian aggression.

The two Indian pilots remain under arrest by Pakistan.


----------



## Imran Khan

Now they will shut the surgikal surgikal forever

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## TOPGUN

Sneaker said:


> Just repeating the Indian emblem.. Satyameva jayate.. Truth will prevail.



I know am sure you and your whole nation is burning inside today but wait also burning fighter jets hmm now that's a kicker of the day yes that is a true emblem  enjoy the day.

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## Maarkhoor

randomradio said:


> Due to the old age of the Bisons, we only have senior pilots on the fleet. So a lot of pilots get moved to the Bisons. The MKIs get new pilots.
> 
> So MKI pilots who have accrued experience are also moved to the Mig-21.


So you want to say experienced pilot of IAF fly old migs while junior fly top fighters in your inventory.....

Tu c@tiya hai yeh ajj medicine lena bhool gaya?

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## R Wing

Windjammer said:


> One was certainly a twin engine.
> Either way, Two kills are Two kills.....way more better than a few trees.



Based on what are you saying that one was "certainly a twin engine" (I am genuinely curious because I hope you're right!)?

And I hope the ISPR can provide some sort of proof of the second kill, as the DG has already gone from claiming 2 pilots in custody to just 1... and the Indian media is only admitting the downing of one jet.


----------



## ghameed

As an Indian , I must say that on the whole Pakistani politicians and Pakistani citizens on social media are showing more maturity than their Indian counterparts , except of course this forum where jingoism rules( which is kind of expected ) !! Just wanted to state my observation .Special respect for Imran Khan ,he talks like a real leader ... his stature just enormously improved in my eyes.

The Bhakths have been especially intolerable on SM with their useless war-mongering !Hope sanity prevails from the Indian side .

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## Daghalodi

Imran Khan said:


> Now they will shut the surgikal surgikal forever



Now its our time to use surgical strike on them

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## drunken-monke

ghazi52 said:


> *Ex-IAF pilot says ‘moral of Indian troops down’ after Pakistan hits back*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: Former Indian pilot Ram Parkash has said that shooting down of two Indian Air Force aircrafts was a major setback for IAF.
> 
> In a Tweet, the former Indian IAF pilot said, “we lost 2 MiG 21 and 3 pilots. Its a major set back for IAF.”
> 
> He went on to say, ‘I just talked to a wing commander who is there in Indian occupied Kashmir that moral is down after this heavy loss.”
> 
> Ram Parkash also thanked Pakistan for treating well arrested Indian Wing Commander Abhinandan.
> 
> “We are thankful to Pakistan as per videos they are treating them well also providing medical care.”
> 
> 
> Pakistan Air Force on Wednesday struck down two Indian fighter jets intruding Pakistani airspace, in a valiant and befitting response to Indian aggression.
> 
> The two Indian pilots remain under arrest by Pakistan.


Fake ID


----------



## Imran Khan

Muhammad Omar said:


> Jab wo bhonkein China maal show them these
> 
> View attachment 542493
> View attachment 542494
> View attachment 542495
> View attachment 542496


Saving every pic and video for next 10 years

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## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> Many news come. Not all are true like mig one



What I meant was there was no need for us to boost our ego by making up a lie at that point.


----------



## SorryNotSorry

Losses are a part and parcel of this game. Keep your spirits high Indians!


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100743853496324096

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## abrar khan

Viny said:


> But in previous press release, DGISPR said they have 2 pilots, the other one is getting treated at CMS
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you just came from your learn british english classes..
> Keep practicing, you will improve..


----------



## ice_man

Viny said:


> Hmm...
> Or is it that Imran Khan and DGISPR where building false stories of lies...or where they confused with one of there pilot probably form so call F16 that was shot..








this is for you. @KRAIT @randomradio 

f16 shot down LOL yes you shot down a billion trees and 76 F16s. please bring some proof. we didn't even use F16s to the fight

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## graphican

India cannot afford esclation becase of election and the fact that Kashmir is boiling hot. Any intrusion by Pakistani into India will open access to arms for Kashmiris and that will lay rest of India control Kashmir rest in peace. 

But you must thank Modi for doing it for India - Pakistan alone could not have offended Kashmiris to this limit.


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## ghazi52

This is the level of respect they have for their soldiers.

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## Meengla

Telescopic Sight said:


> I agree. I will also copy paste my own comment :
> 
> Obviously these are all just guesses right now. And obviously I hope some solid proof will come out.
> As far as face saving, I dont know whether even the wreckage of the F16 on *CNN and BBC will be enough for Modi to save his face.*
> Which is why I think many of these people cheering are not seeing the possiblity of widening conflict.



Bolded part. I hope, however fake, is enough for Modi to 'save his face'. We don't want the war. The last open war was in 1971 for a reason. 
Forget the nukes: Even conventionally it will be a devastating war for both.

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## PWFI

Sneaker said:


> Mi-17 lost due to technical snag, long away from LOC.


He crashed when he learned PAF is comming


----------



## Mughal-Prince

I want to add up one thing. All of this adventure shows the confidence of PAF in JFT that it is good enough to fcuk the sh!t out of the enemy. Our top of the line is F-16 Still we are doing incursions through JFT damn its deadly.

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## randomradio

Maarkhoor said:


> So you want to say experienced pilot of IAF fly old migs while junior fly top fighters in your inventory.....
> 
> Tu c@tiya hai yeh ajj medicine lena bhool gaya?



That's how it works in the IAF.


----------



## Sneaker

TOPGUN said:


> I know am sure you and your whole nation is burning inside today but wait also burning fighter jets hmm now that's a kicker of the day yes that is a true emblem  enjoy the day.



I know some people were burning from yesterday but I am not one of them. The fact that it happened over pak controlled airspace is much more telling. We will face you, come what may. We will stop you, come what may. And we will evict you come what may. We will not turn our backs, come what may.

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## TOPGUN

SorryNotSorry said:


> Losses are a part and parcel of this game. Keep your spirits high Indians!



Haha … yes keep them real high then come right back town in flames that's the spirit.

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## VCheng

Vibrio said:


> LoL that was a good one
> 
> @VCheng How are the popcorns coming? Watch the intake lest more calories are gained in a quick span of time.
> 
> Establish a Supply Chain ... we may just need it.



Supply chain? I already have my head inside the machine to save on time and tubs. 

On topic, everything will settle down just fine to its usual state in a few days.

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## AsianLion

Surgical Strike word drama will be over for good. Revenge is so sweet.

Who was the Pilot who went into Indian territory IOK and lured Indian Pilots into Pakistan?

He is one hell of a brave Pakistani pilot....did it all by himself.

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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> What I meant was there was no need for us to boost our ego by making up a lie at that point.



There was need dear. Pakistan was bombing your territory. And just a hour later there was news of capture of your pilot capture

there was definitely need of this lie. You needed it

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## Han Patriot

Telescopic Sight said:


> WHy would PAF admit to such a loss? As it is , they are pushing clips showing the pilots next the FC 1s. When Kaiser Tufail himself says that it was F16 only.


Indian claims are based on border soldiers seeing a crashing plane in Pakistan, it was most probably that Mig-21 shot down by Pakistan. Pakistan won't use F-16 cause it requires prior US authorization.

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## maximuswarrior

We broke their face and with that their ego.

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## Path-Finder

ghazi52 said:


> This is the level of respect they have for their soldiers.


Bit like some twats on this very forum. No respect for the forces.

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## Maarkhoor

randomradio said:


> That's how it works in the IAF.


Humm and that is why they show such performance, impressive...Keep this practice since suits us very well


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## Swordbreaker12

With which SAM ? Or fighter


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## Han Patriot

Areesh said:


> There was need dear. Pakistan was bombing your territory. And just a hour later there was news of capture of your pilot capture
> 
> there was definitely need of this lie. You needed it


Damn I got to give it to your Pakistanis, you guys have balls, China should have just bombed the crap out of India, we have the capability and technology but alas our top brass are too peaceful. We need some blood!!

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## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> There was need dear. Pakistan was bombing your territory. And just a hour later there was news of capture of your pilot capture
> 
> there was definitely need of this lie. You needed it



More like tried to bomb... AAD opened up 3 kms outside our line.. not like letting them in 50 miles..


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## Hellfire

VCheng said:


> Supply chain? I already have my head inside the machine to save on time and tubs.
> 
> On topic, everything will settle down just fine to its usual state in a few days.




Yeah ... 'major' fire fight between IAF and PAF .. watch the fun .....


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## Pakhtoon yum

ghameed said:


> As an Indian , I must say that on the whole Pakistani politicians and Pakistani citizens on social media are showing more maturity than their Indian counterparts , except of course this forum where jingoism rules( which is kind of expected ) !! Just wanted to state my observation .Special respect for Imran Khan ,he talks like a real leader ... his stature just enormously improved in my eyes.
> 
> The Bhakths have been especially intolerable on SM with their useless war-mongering !Hope sanity prevails from the Indian side .


May peace prevail

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## Falcon29

ما شا الله، تبارك الله ....

....
....

Wow, that was fast and strong response by Pakistan. Modi has miscalculated, and Indian army doesn't seem to know what they are doing. Pakistan appears more prepared. May Allah grant our brothers/sisters in Pakistan/Kashmir steadfastness.

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## Cookie Monster

Han Patriot said:


> Damn I got to give it to your Pakistanis, you guys have balls, China should have just bombed the crap out of India, we have the capability and technology but alas our top brass are too peaceful. We need some blood!!


That Indian escalation on Bhutan's request was good pretext for u guys to escalate things until war started.

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## damm1t

Now they have to think more than twice if they try to drop bombs on Pakistan soil.

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## Baby Leone

Indians will learn this is called real surgical strike indians and world will remember forever.

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## TOPGUN

Sneaker said:


> I know some people were burning from yesterday but I am not one of them. The fact that it happened over pak controlled airspace is much more telling. We will face you, come what may. We will stop you, come what may. And we will evict you come what may. We will not turn our backs, come what may.



Yes, yes, yes go tell that tale to Bollywood what's done is done I know the burning is too much but hang in there haha don't waste my time with your BS story and tears got no time for it enjoy the day.

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## maximuswarrior

Sneaker said:


> I know some people were burning from yesterday but I am not one of them. The fact that it happened over pak controlled airspace is much more telling. We will face you, come what may. We will stop you, come what may. And we will evict you come what may. We will not turn our backs, come what may.



LOL Again cheap words. Bring it on. We will beat you up and humiliate you again and again and again.

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

This is the only thing that will make them think over and over if they ever thought of another mini adventure. Their is simply no excuse.

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## Hellfire

randomradio said:


> You confirming it is good enough for anybody.
> 
> So they took down our Mig-21 in exchange for us taking down their F-16.
> 
> And the F-16 was downed by a Mig-21, while the Mig-21 was downed by ground fire.
> 
> Considering they have paraded our pilot for the world to see, we will get him back in one piece eventually.
> 
> Good exchange in our favour.




Mig 21, as per my info and as posted earlier, was scalped by A2A. One can not be sure as multiple SAMs were also fired which overburdened the IR countermeasures. However, I am giving information of what occurred from those who were there, not keyboard warriors and spin masters.

Anyways, more fun to watch .. get popcorns out. 

Good exchange if the point is put forth that the PAF undertook technical violation of LC and was immediately intercepted.... the Mig-21 crossed chasing them and was scalped. 

But laugh at claiming Mi-17 as Su-30 ... nothing is more hilarious. 

Anyways .... more embarassment for members here as they post GoodTimes Video as captured pilots or show video posted by @nair of Surya Kiran Pilot as captured pilot.

Bloody fools abound on both sides.

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## Nilu Pule

Sanghi hijras have some shame!

Grow a pair and take care the troublemakers across the border and anti nationals within


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## Pak-Canuck

AyanRay said:


> No, they now made a U turn, it's one
> 
> Most probably PA thought the F-16 which went down was another Mig.
> 
> 
> 
> Make up your mind first. Ik claimed 2 migs were shot down and 2 pilots were held captive. Then ISPR made a U turn claiming only one pilot is held.



What you mean make up your mind? Get your eyes checked buddy, is that pic of a Su-30 wreckage or not? Even everybody at BR forums have accepted it now, go and read lol. ISPR doing U-turn and claiming one pilot is held is normal as the other one may have been taken to "special" interrogation hahaha


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## IceCold

Srinivas said:


> I am glad that you remember GD Bakshi who sent terrorists packing from Jammu.
> 
> 
> 
> If Modi is smart he will slap Pakistan one more time and then talk peace.


And will get a slap back before Pakistan will respond to peace.


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## Taimoor Khan

Sneaker said:


> More like tried to bomb... AAD opened up 3 kms outside our line.. not like letting them in 50 miles..



Which part of ISPR briefing you did not understand that PAF DID NOT cross into Indian controlled air space? 

PAF excessively used stand off precision weaponry dropped from both mirages and JF17s while staying inside Pakistani airspace, to struck deep inside IOK. As far as 100kms. 

There is NO Indian AAD involved as they were made redundant with the use of SOWs. 

After getting hit, IAF came out from its hole but slapped back ,hence the lose of your prime Israeli upgraded SU30 and bisons.

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## Cookie Monster

TOPGUN said:


> Yes, yes, yes go tell that tale to Bollywood what's done is done I know the burning is too much but hang in there haha don't waste my time with your BS story and tears got no time for it enjoy the day.


Just wait...soon there will be a Bollywood movie where someone like Sunny Deol, Sunil Shetty, or Saif will single handedly take on the entire Pak military and give a befitting response. After some sensational dialogues, physics defying fight scenes, and an item number...Pakistan would obviously lose.

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## azzo

This whole debacle was obviously created by iran to destabilize the region at the time of the crown prince's arrival and at a time where iran's influence is being pushed in and their share of the oil market snatched by Saudi Arabia.

iran is a thorn in Pakistan's back.

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## ProudPak

Windjammer said:


> It's reported that Wing Commander Faheem, flying JF-17 serial No-102 was the other pilot who shot down the SU-30.


Bro any pic of su30


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## newb3e

Imran Khan said:


> Now they will shut the surgikal surgikal forever


shukar hai ab sirgkal ka naam nai lain gay bhunge

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## Cookie Monster

randomradio said:


> You confirming it is good enough for anybody.
> 
> So they took down our Mig-21 in exchange for us taking down their F-16.
> 
> And the F-16 was downed by a Mig-21, while the Mig-21 was downed by ground fire.
> 
> Considering they have paraded our pilot for the world to see, we will get him back in one piece eventually.
> 
> Good exchange in our favour.


Unlike u the rest of the world works based on evidence/proof. Pakistan provided proof by showing wreckage of the IAF fighter jet they shot down and showed pics/videos of ur captured pilot. U guys on the other hand have only claims of shooting down F16 with nothing to show for it.

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## Telescopic Sight

Pak-Canuck said:


> What you mean make up your mind? Get your eyes checked buddy, is that pic of a Su-30 wreckage or not? Even everybody at BR forums have accepted it now, go and read lol. ISPR doing U-turn and claiming one pilot is held is normal as the other one may have been taken to "special" interrogation hahaha


Sorry, that is the fuselage of a Mig 21 Bison. Both the full length photo and the serial number of the plane will show you that.

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## Goenitz

#SOMBO Small Men Occupying Big Offices

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## VCheng

Vibrio said:


> Yeah ... 'major' fire fight between IAF and PAF .. watch the fun .....



There is no fun for me in the situation. I see it as yet another sad manifestation of the underlying issues that have been allowed to fester by both sides for far too long.

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## HRK

CHACHA"G" said:


> *Above are 2 pics for aircraft down in Pakistan ……. Pleas help me out here are those 2 engine backs(tails, exhaust) *
> @Windjammer , @HRK , @DESERT FIGHTER , @Path-Finder , @graphican , @


mig-21


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## VCheng

Vibrio said:


> the Mig-21 crossed chasing them and was scalped.



Do their RoE allow hot pursuit across the LoC?


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## Han Patriot

Vibrio said:


> Mig 21, as per my info and as posted earlier, was scalped by A2A. One can not be sure as multiple SAMs were also fired which overburdened the IR countermeasures. However, I am giving information of what occurred from those who were there, not keyboard warriors and spin masters.
> 
> Anyways, more fun to watch .. get popcorns out.
> 
> Good exchange if the point is put forth that the PAF undertook technical violation of LC and was immediately intercepted.... the Mig-21 crossed chasing them and was scalped.
> 
> But laugh at claiming Mi-17 as Su-30 ... nothing is more hilarious.
> 
> Anyways .... more embarassment for members here as they post GoodTimes Video as captured pilots or show video posted by @nair of Surya Kiran Pilot as captured pilot.
> 
> Bloody fools abound on both sides.


Funny how a SU-30 pilot is flying a Mig? My bet is his Su crashed in India.

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## GeHAC

Everyone knows whats in Indians mind when they keep claiming F16 stuff, just like hypering '1967 war' to cover up real defeat in 1962. It's clear they are really butt hurt this time

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## SHAH07

ghazi52 said:


> *Ex-IAF pilot says ‘moral of Indian troops down’ after Pakistan hits back*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: Former Indian pilot Ram Parkash has said that shooting down of two Indian Air Force aircrafts was a major setback for IAF.
> 
> In a Tweet, the former Indian IAF pilot said, “we lost 2 MiG 21 and 3 pilots. Its a major set back for IAF.”
> 
> He went on to say, ‘I just talked to a wing commander who is there in Indian occupied Kashmir that moral is down after this heavy loss.”
> 
> Ram Parkash also thanked Pakistan for treating well arrested Indian Wing Commander Abhinandan.
> 
> “We are thankful to Pakistan as per videos they are treating them well also providing medical care.”
> 
> 
> Pakistan Air Force on Wednesday struck down two Indian fighter jets intruding Pakistani airspace, in a valiant and befitting response to Indian aggression.
> 
> The two Indian pilots remain under arrest by Pakistan.


Link bro ? Is it Indian media reporting?


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## AsianLion

India lost two advanced Fighter jets and Three pilots. It is a shame for all of Indian Military. Modi govt, Media and its repeated lies.



maximuswarrior said:


> We broke their face and with that their ego.



Returned with Interest as always!!!!

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## Cookie Monster

Goenitz said:


> #SOMBO Small Men Occupying Big Offices


Speaking of #SMOBO is there any official response/statement by Modi or Indian military?


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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> More like tried to bomb... AAD opened up 3 kms outside our line.. not like letting them in 50 miles..



There was no need to go deep inside enemy territory. We have SOW for that. In any case PAF and Pakistan showed that they can hit you back even if you hit our trees.

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## alee92nawaz

Cookie Monster said:


> Speaking of #SMOBO is there any official response/statement by Modi or Indian military?


Pakistan only has one pilot in custody. Mig 21 pilot.


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## Wow

They said we 3 IAF pilots captured any word on the other 2


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## Meengla

"
*Indian media harassing family of pilot held captive in Pakistan*
Indian journalist Manak Gupta tweeted saying journalists are thronging to the home of the captive pilot."

Can this be real?!! Apparently it is. Why?!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100728815049981954

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## Swordbreaker12

Pakistan should replace its mirage 5, mirage 3 and Chinese migs with eurofighter

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## terry5



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## SorryNotSorry

TOPGUN said:


> Haha … yes keep them real high then come right back town in flames that's the spirit.


Good job flame baiting me PDF think tank chuhiya. Way to go setting an example for others here. 
Same goes for you. When Indian jets entered your airspace so many members were talking about the PAF disrespectfully.
Hopefully you won’t be one of those who get disheartened.


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## alphibeti

Sneaker said:


> I know some people were burning from yesterday but I am not one of them. The fact that it happened over pak controlled airspace is much more telling. We will face you, come what may. We will stop you, come what may. And we will evict you come what may. We will not turn our backs, come what may.


That is the point. IK talked sh!tty today by offering talks to Indians prematurely. Alas our leaders are bloody stupid. Indians claim IK/Pakistan is begging for talks. They want no talks. So keep hammering them till they fall on their knees. Pakistanis need to get it in their hard khhopra that no talks, appeals, requests, resolutions, treaties, and commitments can change Indians psyche and behavior. They understand one and only one language and that is the language of might. Shushma is already in China. She said India wanted no further escalation. Well you see the change from yesterday's arrogance to effectively hands up today. Well we did not start that. Modi was riding high horses and wanted to teach leson to Pakistan at any cost. You started the game, we'll, inshaAllah, end it at will. If you pond these idiots a couple of days more, they will beg for talks. Why we should beg peace from Indians. We need to impose peace on Indians. Don't forget historic reality: Hindu is the best slave but the worst master. Also, we cannot leave our brothers and sisters in occupied J&K alone and let them down. No, never. If Indians want no escalation, Shushmaji must commit to Chinese to allow the people of J&K to decide about their future before we put the hammer down. I hope IK does not turn out to be a beghairat like our past leaders.

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## alee92nawaz

Any confirmation about the second jet? Mig ?


AsianUnion said:


> India lost two advanced Fighter jets and Three pilots. It is a shame for all of Indian Military. Modi govt, Media and its repeated lies.
> 
> 
> 
> Returned with Interest as always!!!!


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## Azadkashmir



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## Goenitz

Cookie Monster said:


> Speaking of #SMOBO is there any official response/statement by Modi or Indian military?


NO... BUT HE went on war mongering in rally... whereas our PM still thinks of peace and region .. so our PM is leader... and modi is just PM or mall Man Occupying Big Offices

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## maximuswarrior

LOL

*India begging for safe release of pilot

www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-47383889
*

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## Goenitz

alphibeti said:


> That is the point. IK talked sh!tty today by offering talks to Indians prematurely. Alas our leaders are bloody stupid. Indians claim IK/Pakistan is begging for talks. They want no talks. So keep hammering them till they fall on their knees. Pakistanis need to get it in their hard khhopra that no talks, appeals, requests, resolutions, treaties, and commitments can change Indians psyche and behavior. They understand one and only one language and that is the language of might. Shushma is already in China. She said India wanted no further escalation. Well you see the change from yesterday's arrogance to effectively hands up today. Well we did not start that. Modi was riding high horses and wanted to teach leson to Pakistan at any cost. You started the game, we'll, inshaAllah, end it at will. If you pond these idiots a couple of days more, they will beg for talks. Why we should beg peace from Indians. We need to impose peace on Indians. Don't forget historic reality: Hindu is the best slave but the worst master. Also, we cannot leave our brothers and sisters in occupied J&K alone and let them down. No, never. If Indians want no escalation, Shushmaji must commit to Chinese to allow the people of J&K to decide about their future before we put the hammer down. I hope IK does not turn out to be a beghairat like our past leaders.


IK well managed.... it not only deescalated but also told the world that we our peace loving country... we are winning in AFG... we need peace... also for CPEC.... their troops moral is down... so statement like we need peace plus IA low moral will deescalate thing

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## MystryMan

Both downed jets were MIG-21 Bison? Indian members of the forum have become missing in action.


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## SABRE

terry5 said:


> View attachment 542507



Look at the face of this boy. So confident. Its the face of a dad whose kid demands "papa India wala jahaz chahiye" after shops are closed, & he is like "Beta papa kal subah aap kay uthnay se pehlay le aengay."


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## Ali Tariq

alee92nawaz said:


> Any confirmation about the second jet? Mig ?


Yes, PM IK said in his speech that both jets were migs.

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## alee92nawaz

Ali Tariq said:


> Yes, PM IK said in his speech that both jets were migs.


Indians are not acknowledging the second 1.


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## maximuswarrior

alphibeti said:


> That is the point. IK talked sh!tty today by offering talks to Indians prematurely. Alas our leaders are bloody stupid. Indians claim IK/Pakistan is begging for talks. They want no talks. So keep hammering them till they fall on their knees. Pakistanis need to get it in their hard khhopra that no talks, appeals, requests, resolutions, treaties, and commitments can change Indians psyche and behavior. They understand one and only one language and that is the language of might. Shushma is already in China. She said India wanted no further escalation. Well you see the change from yesterday's arrogance to effectively hands up today. Well we did not start that. Modi was riding high horses and wanted to teach leson to Pakistan at any cost. You started the game, we'll, inshaAllah, end it at will. If you pond these idiots a couple of days more, they will beg for talks. Why we should beg peace from Indians. We need to impose peace on Indians. Don't forget historic reality: Hindu is the best slave but the worst master. Also, we cannot leave our brothers and sisters in occupied J&K alone and let them down. No, never. If Indians want no escalation, Shushmaji must commit to Chinese to allow the people of J&K to decide about their future before we put the hammer down. I hope IK does not turn out to be a beghairat like our past leaders.



We know Modi bastard will seek war over talks. We know that.

When IK offers talks it is meant as a genuine gesture, but more than that to show the world that we are interested in peace.

If Modi fails to grasp the opportunity presented by Imran Khan, it is Modi's loss and not Imran Khan's loss.


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## Foxtrot Delta

PAF proved itself yet again. Indians are so stubborn still claiming F-16 of PAF shot down without giving any proof

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## Ali Tariq

MystryMan said:


> *Indian members of the forum have become missing in action.*


Not true, they are back with more propaganda. Now they are claiming that IAF shot down an F-16.



alee92nawaz said:


> Indians are not acknowledging the second 1.


So? They were not even accepting that PA captured their WC, but now they are accepting after watching proofs. Wait for sometime and they will accept everything.

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## ProudPak

monitor said:


> May be . Pakistan Army done a great job by saving him from to angry mob . now treat him as per Islamic law for POW so that increase image of Pakistan farther .


They did..

He is safe
He has food and even hot tea.
He is talking clamly so no fear.
His family can see him


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## khanasifm

One mig-29 fell on Indian side shot down

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## Foxtrot Delta

R Wing said:


> Can the ISPR please give the Pakistani and international media full proof of TWO Indian jets shot down so the Indian media can't hide it anymore???
> 
> Why is it still a mystery?!



A suspense we want to see how long indian media keeps telling lies. I guess we want indian media to claim something stupid and then we release proof and embarras them.

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## coffee_cup

Viny said:


> But in previous press release, DGISPR said they have 2 pilots, the other one is getting treated at *CMS*



Since you are bringing it up in almost every post of yours, thought it might help.

The term is *CMH* = Combined Millitary Hospital and *NOT* CMS.


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## Goenitz

will the 2 pilots meet? I mean just like a normal conversation.. and shows in war we fight PROFESSIONALLY but we can have good conversation.... like a discussion/review, post a game... where u went wrong etc etc


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## Crypto



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## ProudPak

Sneaker said:


> It is common tactic to claim to be their own country's pilot inorder to evade. So people might not have believed PAF pilot at first..
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the wreckage exists.. just not being allowed/circulated over the net..


Looooool just like the 350 dead bodies

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## Khan Sahab

ThinkLogically said:


> So the score is
> India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21)


More like

India 8 (8 trees) - Pakistan 2 (Mig 21 & MKI)

India still winning by a big margin.

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## Reichsmarschall

Telescopic Sight said:


> I agree. I will also copy paste my own comment :
> 
> Obviously these are all just guesses right now. And obviously I hope some solid proof will come out.
> As far as face saving, I dont know whether even the wreckage of the F16 on CNN and BBC will be enough for Modi to save his face.
> Which is why I think many of these people cheering are not seeing the possiblity of widening conflict.


your american buddies keep close tabs on our 16s ask them to confirm it


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## PurpleButcher

ThinkLogically said:


> So the score is
> India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21)


as your name suggests... logic demands evidence! Kindly give me evidence :-
a) before and after pics of JeM madrassah
b) F-16 wreckage/ video of it being shot down/ pilot dead or alive!

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## Ali Tariq

Khan Sahab said:


> MKI


Bhai, this is not confirmed that 2nd jet was Su30


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## Foxtrot Delta

Reichsmarschall said:


> your american buddies keep close tabs on our 16s ask them to confirm it


Thats one of the reasons f 16 was not used to raid indian territory. So that americans wont br able to tell indians.

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## coffee_cup

graphican said:


> We had seen another injured Indian pilot fallen with his video. Is Pakistan agreeing with India to downplay this incident?



Could be a tactic.
Since India is claiming only one pilot is in Pakistan custody (MIA), they can not accuse us for not treating well their other pilots from whom we might be extracting some information.

Just a guess...


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## Great Janjua

Indus Valley said:


> LOL you didn't hit anything and you didn't down an F-16, that's for sure.


Our f-16s are our last line off defence why would we risk f-16s in a skirmish when we only have a small amount off them,Indians are beyond dumb


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## AyanRay

Ali Tariq said:


> Bhai, this is not confirmed that 2nd jet was Su30



The second jet was a Pakistani jet, which your army initially mistook as a Indian jet.


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## alphibeti

Goenitz said:


> IK well managed.... it not only deescalated but also told the world that we our peace loving country... we are winning in AFG... we need peace... also for CPEC.... their troops moral is down... so statement like we need peace plus IA low moral will deescalate thing


Which world? The same monkeys sitting in P-5 seats at UN? When Indians ruthlessly kill scores of innocent people including children in occupied J&K, no one reacts, moves, even talks. But when freedom fighters kill 42 of those brutal and filthy Indian animals, these monkeys sitting in P-5 seats start having itching deep in their ***. If world cannot enforce UN resolutions and tell us resolve it bilaterally with India while Indians refuse to even accept it an issue, then let Pakistan settle it down with India one way or the other bilaterally. When we hit Indians, why these monkeys start crying with Indians? Pakistanis need to have some courage.


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## Ali Tariq

AyanRay said:


> The second jet was a Pakistani jet, which your army initially mistook as a Indian jet.


ok.


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## TOPGUN

SorryNotSorry said:


> Good job flame baiting me PDF think tank chuhiya. Way to go setting an example for others here.
> Same goes for you. When Indian jets entered your airspace so many members were talking about the PAF disrespectfully.
> Hopefully you won’t be one of those who get disheartened.



NO flame job its in repose to your indian trolls chuhiyta mind your language this is not your home and i am not your friend nothing to do with my title. I and all Pakistan is proud of our armed forces we wont put up with a bully that is a coward like your pathetic nation that's wants no peace . Now stop wasting my time and go troll elsewhere !!

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## Foxtrot Delta

I think the second pilot who was injured died at CMH thats why ispr says we only have 1 now.



ThinkLogically said:


> You know they unconsciously by their instinct reported their own loss.


Could be but i doubt it.


----------



## ProudPak

Viny said:


> Hmm...
> Or is it that Imran Khan and DGISPR where building false stories of lies...or where they confused with one of there pilot probably form so call F16 that was shot..


You media and your modi brought you here. Cut your losses


----------



## Bratva

Vibrio said:


> Mig 21, as per my info and as posted earlier, was scalped by A2A. One can not be sure as multiple SAMs were also fired which overburdened the IR countermeasures. However, I am giving information of what occurred from those who were there, not keyboard warriors and spin masters.
> 
> Anyways, more fun to watch .. get popcorns out.
> 
> Good exchange if the point is put forth that the PAF undertook technical violation of LC and was immediately intercepted.... the Mig-21 crossed chasing them and was scalped.
> 
> But laugh at claiming Mi-17 as Su-30 ... nothing is more hilarious.
> 
> Anyways .... more embarassment for members here as they post GoodTimes Video as captured pilots or show video posted by @nair of Surya Kiran Pilot as captured pilot.
> 
> Bloody fools abound on both sides.



When there was no F-16 involved in the raid, how an F-16 be shot ? Your sources are taking you for a feel good ride to hide their embarrassment and you are willingly accepting their fake feel good narrative and peddling to all gullible indians who badly need something to latch onto.

We have a video of downed Indian aircraft. Why your ground units didn't made movie of Pakistani downed aircraft ?

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## Kambojaric

AsianUnion said:


> India lost two advanced Fighter jets and Three pilots. It is a shame for all of Indian Military. Modi govt, Media and its repeated lies.
> 
> 
> 
> Returned with Interest as always!!!!



Not to mention the mi-17 "crash" in which 5 officers died. Talk about having a rough day.

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## PurpleButcher

Khan Sahab said:


> More like
> 
> India 8 (8 trees) - Pakistan 2 (Mig 21 & MKI)
> 
> India still winning by a big margin.



You forgot one crow which was killed in Balakot shown by Hamid Mir..... Damn the IAF, first they jail our pigeons and now they kill crows

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## Sneaker

alphibeti said:


> That is the point. IK talked sh!tty today by offering talks to Indians prematurely. Alas our leaders are bloody stupid. Indians claim IK/Pakistan is begging for talks. They want no talks. So keep hammering them till they fall on their knees. Pakistanis need to get it in their hard khhopra that no talks, appeals, requests, resolutions, treaties, and commitments can change Indians psyche and behavior. They understand one and only one language and that is the language of might. Shushma is already in China. She said India wanted no further escalation. Well you see the change from yesterday's arrogance to effectively hands up today. Well we did not start that. Modi was riding high horses and wanted to teach leson to Pakistan at any cost. You started the game, we'll, inshaAllah, end it at will. If you pond these idiots a couple of days more, they will beg for talks. Why we should beg peace from Indians. We need to impose peace on Indians. Don't forget historic reality: Hindu is the best slave but the worst master. Also, we cannot leave our brothers and sisters in occupied J&K alone and let them down. No, never. If Indians want no escalation, Shushmaji must commit to Chinese to allow the people of J&K to decide about their future before we put the hammer down. I hope IK does not turn out to be a beghairat like our past leaders.



I think you confused me for a pakistani.


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## lonelyman

Indus Pakistan said:


> Two Indian Aircraft have been shot down by PAF and Pakistan has taken it's revenge plus interest on Ganga India. I want to use this thread to show support to PAF and Pakistan Armed Forces. time for all Pakistani;s to stand united. It was really pleasing to see Sherry Rehman of PPP and Kwaja Asif of PML-N showing solidarity. Modi's Ganga has been slapped right in his ugly mutt. And this should sober up his billion plus army of aboriginal Dalits from the Ganga jungles.
> 
> Yeh that is a Gangoo flag ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan-India: Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' over Kashmir*
> 
> Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian Air Force jets in a major escalation of the Kashmir conflict.
> 
> A spokesman said one plane had fallen in Pakistani territory and two pilots had been captured. Pakistan also denied reports one of its jets was shot down.
> 
> India has confirmed the loss of an MiG21 fighter and said a pilot was missing. It said it was investigating reports of his capture.
> 
> Both India and Pakistan claim all of Kashmir, but control only parts of it.
> 
> The nuclear powers have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947. All but one were over Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Captured Indian pilot.



Good, do we know what Indians planes are these? Using missile to shoot it down or from JF 17/F-16

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## Ali Tariq

Bratva said:


> Why your ground units didn't made movie of Pakistani downed aircraft ?


Bhai, never ever question an Indian and his/her *sources*. They can't be wrong.


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## SorryNotSorry

TOPGUN said:


> NO flame job its in repose to your indian trolls chuhiyta mind your language this is not your home and i am not your friend nothing to do with my title. I and all Pakistan is proud of our armed forces we wont put up with a bully that is a coward like your pathetic nation that's wants no peace . Now stop wasting my time and go troll elsewhere !!


I never trolled. And I didn’t call you “chutiya” , I called you a “chuhiya”.
Cause you hold this title, uphold the non flame baiting standard.
You are pathetic.


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> There was no need to go deep inside enemy territory. We have SOW for that. In any case PAF and Pakistan showed that they can hit you back even if you hit our trees.



What they actually showed us is not to attack head on when there is red alert.. we engaged them long before they came near border and paf had to lose their jet and turn back. Even though we lost a jet as well, whole engagement took place outside our border.


----------



## drunken-monke

https://www.republicworld.com/india...indis-attempt-to-intrude-into-indias-airspace

Not sure about credibility of source..

Video shows Su30 shooting down F16 ( as claimed)


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Vibrio said:


> As for F-16, 01 x F-16 confirmed 'kill'


dont tell me this video is your credible source




@Areesh @I S I @Windjammer @Mentee @Tps43 seems like indian "Axpaarts" are taking bollywood very seriously
any idea if b-wood movies are part of their curriculum in defense academies

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## Sneaker

Taimoor Khan said:


> Which part of ISPR briefing you did not understand that *PAF DID NOT cross into Indian controlled air space*?
> 
> PAF excessively used stand off precision weaponry dropped from both mirages and JF17s while staying inside Pakistani airspace, to struck deep inside IOK. As far as 100kms.
> 
> There is NO Indian AAD involved as they were made redundant with the use of SOWs.
> 
> After getting hit, IAF came out from its hole but slapped back ,hence the lose of your prime Israeli upgraded SU30 and bisons.



We know. We didn't let you. We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.

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## truthseeker2010

Srinivas said:


> Expected in a state of war, some days are yours some are ours. Important thing is if our objectives are met.
> 
> *There is no reason for us to not to punish the guys who supported and exported terror.*



If indians had been able to distinguish what is actually wrong, things wouldn't have been they are today..........

If people in india still think that this terror narrative will work.......... You are dead wrong............ It will only lead to more blood and nothing else............

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## Salza

Funny part is, Indians on pdf have fully ignored that PAF has also bombed Indian soil at 6 different locations.

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## The Accountant

Su30 confirmed ?


Windjammer said:


> It's reported that Wing Commander Faheem, flying JF-17 serial No-102 was the other pilot who shot down the SU-30.


----------



## drunken-monke

Sneaker said:


> We know. We didn't let you. We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.


check the link from post #1901


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## patriotpakistan

gambit said:


> Pakistan *WILL* do no such things. The Indian pilots will be confined to quarters and not exploited for political purposes.



Lol, Pakistan will do what* IT* determines to be in its interest. I don't think an american has the weight to open his mouth on a forum and use words like "will" to create a dramatic effect. You don't have the weight to throw around like you think you do.


----------



## TOPGUN

SorryNotSorry said:


> I never trolled. And I didn’t call you “chutiya” , I called you a “chuhiya”.
> Cause you hold this title, uphold the non flame baiting standard.
> You are pathetic.



Nothing to do with my title , just have set you trolls straight this is not your home get it through your heads. Show respect and earn respect. Its you who is not only pathetic but clearly lost, you have no right nor hold any authority to tell me what to do nor ever will. I even said in my statements that war is nothing good I value human life nor is it Pakistani or indian or any other simply. While your nation was happy a few days ago with a failed attempt by your coward airforce which killed innocent people and destroyed homes is now crying we didn't ask for this was given no choice .. once a bully always a bully you and your whole nations and its armed forces are straight out pathetic and nothing more nor ever will be.

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## Salza

Sneaker said:


> We know. We didn't let you. We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.



Hahaha no wonder u guys are badly hurt today and spreading lies is the only thing to save your faces. Lmao claiming big and that without a single proof... Lol


----------



## Mentee

Reichsmarschall said:


> dont tell me this video is your credible source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Areesh @I S I @Windjammer @Mentee @Tps43 seems like indian "Axpaarts" are taking bollywood very seriously
> any idea if b-wood movies are part of their curriculum in defense academies




Indians being victims of the state propaganda will never question their govt. Every one knows cameras existed in the fighter jets since 1950's and do exist now.

So where's the Indian footage of the yesterday's so called surgical strikes? 

They may be a democracy but theyve got all the traits of Kim's true Korean republic.


And unlike them our dg ispr got questioned by the press and the Pakistani military Wil release the footage of the strikes and of the downing of the Indian jets.

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## Arsalan 345

Sneaker said:


> We know. We didn't let you. We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.



please stop this bollywood mentality.even during the capture of your pilot,locals rushed to the spot before army so where is the video of locals if our f-16 was down today? yesterday you claimed 350 killed during mirage strikes.where are the bodies? no funeral? we should use common sense and logic.


----------



## M. Sarmad

Never celebrate too early
It ain't over yet

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## Mentee

doorstar said:


> China neutral


Bedo----


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## Bratva

Sneaker said:


> We know. We didn't let you. *We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.*



Where is the proof of PAF downed jet ? Air defense cam videos ? Aircraft Cam video downing Pakistani Jet ?

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## Bratva

drunken-monke said:


> check the link from post #1901



That indian link video was taken from Pakistani Video. Here is the original link and the background voices


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## indian my friend

truthseeker2010 said:


> If indians had been able to distinguish what is actually wrong, things wouldn't have been they are today..........
> 
> If people in india still think that this terror narrative will work.......... You are dead wrong............ It will only lead to more blood and nothing else............


We will not stop until we make you terror free nation.


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## rott

lonelyman said:


> Good, do we know what Indians planes are these? Using missile to shoot it down or from JF 17/F-16


PAF used JF-17 and IAF used Mig 21 bison and Su 30 mki.

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## Mentee

Sneaker said:


> We know. We didn't let you. We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.


Hey sunshine soon we'll be releasing the gun camera footage so stop being ignorant. 

You know why Indian foreign office has to admit the the strikes on your soil t?

Coz our jets got the real time footage not some trailer of ARMA video game 



doorstar said:


> translate please


Chinese equivalent of the GPS

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## Swordbreaker12

doorstar said:


> Turkey, KSA, UAE and Russia sympathetic towards Pakistan.
> China neutral
> USA supportive of India while Turkey offering help to Pakistan


Turkey and Russia are not helping Pakistan just Saudi Arabia and UAE !!! This is the fact

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## The Eagle

Docuemnts recovered from IAF Wing Commander Abhinanden while he is enjoying Tea under our treatment with all ethics. He will be taken care of.

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## Sneaker

Mentee said:


> Hey sunshine soon we'll be releasing the gun camera footage so stop being ignorant.
> 
> You know why Indian foreign office has to admit the the strikes on your soil t?
> 
> Coz our jets got the real time footage not some trailer of ARMA video game
> 
> 
> Chinese equivalent of the GPS



Gun camera footage of what? not entering into indian airspace?


----------



## maximuswarrior

alphibeti said:


> Which world? The same monkeys sitting in P-5 seats at UN? When Indians ruthlessly kill scores of innocent people including children in occupied J&K, no one reacts, moves, even talks. But when freedom fighters kill 42 of those brutal and filthy Indian animals, these monkeys sitting in P-5 seats start having itching deep in their ***. If world cannot enforce UN resolutions and tell us resolve it bilaterally with India while Indians refuse to even accept it an issue, then let Pakistan settle it down with India one way or the other bilaterally. When we hit Indians, why these monkeys start crying with Indians? Pakistanis need to have some courage.



We do have courage. That is why we sought revenge and showed the world a big middle finger.


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## Mentee

Bratva said:


> Where is the proof of PAF downed jet ? Air defense cam videos ? Aircraft Cam video downing Pakistani Jet ?


Let him jerk off his fantasies. Choti Choti khuahishy

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## ThinkLogically

Indus Valley said:


> LOL you didn't hit anything and you didn't down an F-16, that's for sure.





ProudPak said:


> Dick head





Indus Valley said:


> LOL you didn't hit anything and you didn't down an F-16, that's for sure.





Great Janjua said:


> Barway kuch tho sharam kar





Foxtrot Delta said:


> No f-16 lost
> 
> Score is pakistan= 2 migs . 6 glide bombs in indian territory 3 different army locations targetted.





Rusty said:


> The score is actullay Pakistan: 2 India: Farts
> 
> Get a life.





Ali Tariq said:


> So you proved yourself as 'kutte ki dum'.





PurpleButcher said:


> as your name suggests... logic demands evidence! Kindly give me evidence :-
> a) before and after pics of JeM madrassah
> b) F-16 wreckage/ video of it being shot down/ pilot dead or alive!



For all those who were asking me for proof and all those who were abusing me.

Proof for 
India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21)
were given by yourself unwittingly. 

Let me explain.

Balakota: you guys have even drone shot of the place where Indian Plane dropped it's drop tank. That place itself is 45 kms from LOC. Are you guys so innocent to think that 12 IAF planes came that distance just to drop a tank.

F16: From the morning you guys were shouting over the roof that you had shot down 2 planes. The people who did the initial reporting in their enthusiasm failed to check that the 2nd plane was your own F16.

Both the above are your own admissions and it's all over the internet. Taking or leaving it is up to you.

For me India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21).

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## Sneaker

Bratva said:


> Where is the proof of PAF downed jet ? Air defense cam videos ? Aircraft Cam video downing Pakistani Jet ?


I posted a blurry video before.. whole engagement happened outside our airspace.. but we have enough circumstantial evidence supporting the claim.. no other way to explain official claim of 2/3 pilots in custody.. second one must be your own pilot..

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## Indus Pakistan

This sums up the 1.4 billion horde [Ganga India] against the vastly smaller [by a factor of nearly 7 times] Pakistan.


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## Great Janjua

ThinkLogically said:


> For all those who were asking me for proof and all those who were abusing me.
> 
> Proof for
> India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21)
> were given by yourself unwittingly.
> 
> Let me explain.
> 
> Balakota: you guys have even drone shot of the place where Indian Plane dropped it's drop tank. That place itself is 45 kms from LOC. Are you guys so innocent to think that 12 IAF planes came that distance just to drop a tank.
> 
> F16: From the morning you guys were shouting over the roof that you had shot down 2 planes. The people who did the initial reporting in their enthusiasm failed to check that the 2nd plane was your own F16.
> 
> Both the above are your own admissions and it's all over the internet. Taking or leaving it is up to you.
> 
> For me India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21).


Please @mods ban this fool no one likes retards especially off this level


----------



## Mentee

Sneaker said:


> Gun camera footage of what? not entering into indian airspace?



Entering or not but the Indian foreign office admission will haunt you sanghis till eternity - - - - - - 



doorstar said:


> they can be coerced into switching Pakistan off


Nein!


----------



## randomradio

Vibrio said:


> Mig 21, as per my info and as posted earlier, was scalped by A2A. One can not be sure as multiple SAMs were also fired which overburdened the IR countermeasures. However, I am giving information of what occurred from those who were there, not keyboard warriors and spin masters.
> 
> Anyways, more fun to watch .. get popcorns out.
> 
> Good exchange if the point is put forth that the PAF undertook technical violation of LC and was immediately intercepted.... the Mig-21 crossed chasing them and was scalped.
> 
> But laugh at claiming Mi-17 as Su-30 ... nothing is more hilarious.
> 
> Anyways .... more embarassment for members here as they post GoodTimes Video as captured pilots or show video posted by @nair of Surya Kiran Pilot as captured pilot.
> 
> Bloody fools abound on both sides.



 True that. Lots of stuff yet to happen.


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## Frank Martin

I must say that Pakistan and PAF played well today. They took a calculated risk and used stand off weapons to give us a reply. They crossed and lured the IAF jets to their territory only to shot them down; IAF miserably fell for that. On top of that, captured the pilot alive which is an irrefutable fact to deny. Good to know that they're treating him well. If a PAF jet is shot down, there should be at least a staelite imagery can be obtained to confirm this? I dont even believe their claim of squashing the JeM terror camp without any evidence. Modi is not even uttering a single word after his so called valoured speech yesterday. He is in a position that he can't do anything apart from using the diplomatic channels to get a safe return for the pilot. Pathetic!

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## Sneaker

Arsalan 345 said:


> please stop this bollywood mentality.even during the capture of your pilot,locals rushed to the spot before army so where is the video of locals if our f-16 was down today? yesterday you claimed 350 killed during mirage strikes.where are the bodies? no funeral? we should use common sense and logic.



But in the video we can see army already present.. video was even shot by army.. that says everything.


----------



## ProudPak

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100743853496324096


AM shahid L is a personal friend. Former f16 pilot. A true patriot

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## ThinkLogically

Great Janjua said:


> Please @mods ban this fool no one likes retards especially off this level


Cool down man. I am just representing my country just like you represent yours.


----------



## randomradio

Cookie Monster said:


> Unlike u the rest of the world works based on evidence/proof. Pakistan provided proof by showing wreckage of the IAF fighter jet they shot down and showed pics/videos of ur captured pilot. U guys on the other hand have only claims of shooting down F16 with nothing to show for it.



Look at that. As a more aggressive force, it's expected that the IAF fighter jet debris will fall on your side. Similarly, you can expect your F-16 to have fallen on your side as well.


----------



## Sneaker

Bratva said:


> That indian link video was taken from Pakistani Video. Here is the original link and the background voices



This again is m17 heli..


----------



## YeBeWarned

randomradio said:


> You confirming it is good enough for anybody.
> 
> So they took down our Mig-21 in exchange for us taking down their F-16.
> 
> And the F-16 was downed by a Mig-21, while the Mig-21 was downed by ground fire.
> 
> Considering they have paraded our pilot for the world to see, we will get him back in one piece eventually.
> 
> Good exchange in our favour.



As our Ex Defense Minister Said, Koi Sharam hoti hai , Koi Haya hoti hai 

I hope you are enjoying the pictures of your bloody Pilot and downed fighters .. and also enjoying that mystical wreckage of Pakistan F-16

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## his5850

ThinkLogically said:


> For all those who were asking me for proof and all those who were abusing me.
> 
> Proof for
> India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21)
> were given by yourself unwittingly.
> 
> Let me explain.
> 
> Balakota: you guys have even drone shot of the place where Indian Plane dropped it's drop tank. That place itself is 45 kms from LOC. Are you guys so innocent to think that 12 IAF planes came that distance just to drop a tank.
> 
> F16: From the morning you guys were shouting over the roof that you had shot down 2 planes. The people who did the initial reporting in their enthusiasm failed to check that the 2nd plane was your own F16.
> 
> Both the above are your own admissions and it's all over the internet. Taking or leaving it is up to you.
> 
> For me India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21).


Give proof man give proof


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> What they actually showed us is not to attack head on when there is red alert.. we engaged them long before they came near border and paf had to lose their jet and turn back. Even though we lost a jet as well, whole engagement took place outside our border.



First of all we never lost a jet so cut that cr@p with me. Yeah share that with other bharatis but not me.

Secondly we intended to give you a clear message and we did. Even got a POW as a bonus. 

Now you can show humility like a good boy after this thrashing so that we would send your POW back soon.

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## ProudPak

ghazi52 said:


> This is the level of respect they have for their soldiers.


I think this gandoo should come to the front. We have recruited some afghanis for his bund

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

VCheng said:


> Do their RoE allow hot pursuit across the LoC?


There was no hot pursuit across the LoC.

Some of us have been pointing this out since yesterday, that the PAF response would likely involve stand-off weapons (launched from within Pakistan) directed at an inconsequential target to make a point.

That's exactly what happened, except that the Indian's decided to cross the LoC as retaliation and this time the RoE had changed, as I pointed out to you yesterday.

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## Sneaker

Mentee said:


> Entering or not but the Indian foreign office admission will haunt you sanghis till eternity - - - - - -
> 
> 
> Nein!


MEA did say engagement happened outside indian airspace.. what is there to haunt?


----------



## Areesh

drunken-monke said:


> https://www.republicworld.com/india...indis-attempt-to-intrude-into-indias-airspace
> 
> Not sure about credibility of source..
> 
> Video shows Su30 shooting down F16 ( as claimed)



No F16 can be seen in the video. Funny you guys believe in these jokers called as Indian media despite they embarrassing you again and again

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## Foxtrot Delta

ThinkLogically said:


> For all those who were asking me for proof and all those who were abusing me.
> 
> Proof for
> India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21)
> were given by yourself unwittingly.
> 
> Let me explain.
> 
> Balakota: you guys have even drone shot of the place where Indian Plane dropped it's drop tank. That place itself is 45 kms from LOC. Are you guys so innocent to think that 12 IAF planes came that distance just to drop a tank.
> 
> F16: From the morning you guys were shouting over the roof that you had shot down 2 planes. The people who did the initial reporting in their enthusiasm failed to check that the 2nd plane was your own F16.
> 
> Both the above are your own admissions and it's all over the internet. Taking or leaving it is up to you.
> 
> For me India 2 (Balakota + F16) - Pak 1 (Mig 21).



For this reason there are avionics on aircraft and awacs in air. We have proof. Once the time is right it will be shown to public. For now jounalists have seen the proofs.


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> First of all we never lost a jet so cut that cr@p with me. Yeah share that with other bharatis but not me.
> 
> Secondly we intended to give you a clear message and we did. Even got a POW as a bonus.
> 
> Now you can show humility like a good boy after this thrashing so that we would send your POW back soon.



We had your 90K PoWs and humility did not come near you. We are supposed to humility for 1 PoW? no thanks.


----------



## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> There was no hot pursuit across the LoC.
> 
> Some of us have been pointing this out since yesterday, that the PAF response would likely involve stand-off weapons (launched from within Pakistan) directed at an inconsequential target to make a point.



I meant the IAF aircraft RoE, since its wreckage fell on the other side of the LoC.


----------



## syed_yusuf

khanasifm said:


> One mig-29 fell on Indian side shot down


 were both of the jets shot down were mig-29 one fell here and the other on IOK?


----------



## alphibeti

Imran Khan said:


> Now they will shut the surgikal surgikal forever


No, it's our turn to conduct surgical strikes now on Indians. The real strikes, not fake ones like India. Guy, don't overlook this opportunity. We have hard earned this right. Now Indians will start crying here and there (London, Paris, DC, etc. etc.) and tirelessly bring the references to international laws. But Indians have always ignored any and every international law while dealing with Pakistan. Don't get trapped in Indian lies and tactics. They will again hit us when they get some strength.

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## SorryNotSorry

TOPGUN said:


> Nothing to do with my title , just have set you trolls straight this is not your home get it through your heads. Show respect and earn respect. Its you who is not only pathetic but clearly lost, you have no right nor hold any authority to tell me what to do nor ever will. I even said in my statements that war is nothing good I value human life nor is it Pakistani or indian or any other simply. While your nation was happy a few days ago with a failed attempt by your coward airforce which killed innocent people and destroyed homes is now crying we didn't ask for this was given no choice .. once a bully always a bully you and your whole nations and its armed forces are straight out pathetic and nothing more nor ever will be.


Cool story. Don’t address your own conduct. Bye.

I made a post to the Indians here to stop them from ruining the thread and make them stfu. You flamed me.


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> We had your 90K PoWs and humility did not come near you. We are supposed to humility for 1 PoW? no thanks.



90K figure was a BS too just like today's F16 shot down story

But show humility like a good boy. 48 hours of humiliation is enough even for shameless creatures like you


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

VCheng said:


> I meant the IAF aircraft RoE, since its wreckage fell on the other side of the LoC.


I know your question was regarding the Indian RoE's, but I was pointing out the premise behind it (chasing the PAF across the LoC) was wrong.

With respect to Indian RoE's, they threw those out the window yesterday with the incursion into Pakistan that involved dropping bombs on Pakistani territory. The IAF managed to make it back because the Pakistani RoE's (of allowing intruding aircraft to return after being warned) were in place and information about the IAF dropping bombs was not available till later.


----------



## Great Janjua

ThinkLogically said:


> Cool down man. I am just representing my country just like you represent yours.


No I won't cool down,You keep bringing the same old we lost an f-16 without providing any concrete evidence rather than jumping from thread to thread and repeating the same dumbfounded mantra just shut the **** up,If you want some attention raise your fucking hand and I'll give you some,After all that am still ready to talk sane with you fellow neighbour that is if you provide some concrete evidence


----------



## TOPGUN

Sneaker said:


> What they actually showed us is not to attack head on when there is red alert.. we engaged them long before they came near border and paf had to lose their jet and turn back. Even though we lost a jet as well, whole engagement took place outside our border.



You seem to be dreamer no PAF f-16 was downed as they weren't even flying stop this madness trolling give it a rest man its pathetic !!

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## AsianLion

alee92nawaz said:


> Any confirmation about the second jet? Mig ?



Source Newyork times: Here is the confirmation of second jet which was destroyed and fell in Indian Occupied Kashmir:










Indian soldiers near the remains of an Indian aircraft after it shot down and crashed on Wednesday 2/27/2019.

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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I know your question was regarding the Indian RoE's, but I was pointing out the premise behind it (chasing the PAF across the LoC) was wrong.
> 
> With respect to Indian RoE's, they threw those out the window yesterday with the incursion into Pakistan that involved dropping bombs on Pakistani territory. The IAF managed to make it back because the Pakistani RoE's (of allowing intruding aircraft to return after being warned) were in place and information about the IAF dropping bombs was not available till later.



But that still does not explain how an IAF MiG-21 was on the opposing side of the LoC.


----------



## Mentee

Sneaker said:


> MEA did say engagement happened outside indian airspace.. what is there to haunt?



I reiterate his words for yiu if yiu didn't listen him carefully. 

"Pakistan airforce conducted strikes at 3 points"

On the other hand Pakistan claims 6
Yes, There's a controversy but it only exists 
as far as the number of targets, we engaged, are concerned .


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> 90K figure was a BS too just like today's F16 shot down story
> 
> But show humility like a good boy. 48 hours of humiliation is enough even for shameless creatures like you


Then how much? I am not saying 90K soldiers, but total PoWs with soldiers and civilians (soldier's family, civil servants etc) was 90K..


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## Arsalan 345

Sneaker said:


> But in the video we can see army already present.. video was even shot by army.. that says everything.



i think the people were very angry and you should thank to pakistan army for saving the life of your pilot.army saved him.accept it man.there will be more escalation.right now,we are expecting attack from iaf.this will continue.you will attack us,we will attack you.escalation is bad for region.


----------



## Sneaker

Arsalan 345 said:


> i think the people were very angry and you should thank to pakistan army for saving the life of your pilot.army saved him.accept it man.



Sorry, can't thank a force which allows terrorists to freely operate from their territory.


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> Then how much? I am not saying 90K soldiers, but total PoWs with soldiers and civilians (soldier's family, civil servants etc) was 90K..



Still. Show humility. Chalo shabash


----------



## Sneaker

TOPGUN said:


> You seem to be dreamer no PAF f-16 was downed as they weren't even flying stop this madness trolling give it a rest man its pathetic !!


Well, it was paf jet.


----------



## ProudPak

Sneaker said:


> We had your 90K PoWs and humility did not come near you. We are supposed to humility for 1 PoW? no thanks.


Let me invite you for tea at lahore gymkhana


----------



## Goku-kun

ThinkLogically said:


> Cool down man. I am just representing my country just like you represent yours.


Yes you are but you don't make sense..
you say that f-16 is shot down-where is the wreckage then?
you say one pilot missing-how do we have two then?
accept the truth..you are all talking and no action.


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## IFB

M. Sarmad said:


> Never celebrate too early
> It ain't over yet



If elections were not so close...things would have been different...but the election angel is very very important at this juncture...as domestically modi lost the recent election...common man is angry and his RSS workers are a demotivated lot...hindus in general are also angry at modi for doing nothing he promised...if he had not tortured the poor and vulnerable by banning notes he would have been in a better position...even that scar is still fresh with voters...modi knows this...only way to face this election is to divert them somehow...and this conflict with pakistan is a great way to do that....now that things have turned ugly for not only for every indian but very ugly for mr modi ji...no citizen will want to see their pilot paraded by the enemy like a trophy...modi has to convince the voters he has given a bloody nose...like he said few hours ago in a rally...india is safe in his hand only...now he has to somehow prove it to the voter...however he can...i am sure no one wants to be in his place right now...if he doesn not he will be erased from the political landscape.

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## Sneaker

Mentee said:


> I reiterate his words for yiu if yiu didn't listen him carefully.
> 
> "Pakistan airforce conducted strikes at 3 points"
> 
> On the other hand Pakistan claims 6
> Yes, There's a controversy but it only exists
> as far as the number of targets, we engaged, are concerned .


It can conduct strikes at 100 points, I am fine as long as they are all outside India as happened today..

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## Arsalan 345

Sneaker said:


> Sorry, can't thank a force which allows terrorists to freely operate from their territory.



use logic my friend.some of the indian people on social media is saying thanks to pak army.they understand things much better.


----------



## Mentee

Sneaker said:


> Sorry, can't thank a force which allows terrorists to freely operate from their territory.



I think we nabbed three sanghis just today. Rest assured they won't be freely operating ever.


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> Still. Show humility. Chalo shabash



you did not say what was PoW number according to you..


----------



## Clutch

RPK said:


> India don't want to escalate, thats why mig went for interception


lol .. that's the stupids thing I've heard... What military puts their personal in intentional harms way?


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## Dubious

Clutch said:


> Kill him... Kill the Hindutva terrorist!
> 
> They have declared war on us... REVENGE!!!
> 
> I .WANT REVENGE!!!


Dont act like an Indian..yes I am using that as a verb...We are Pakistanis we offer peace...because we are BETTER!

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## Sneaker

ProudPak said:


> Let me invite you for tea at lahore gymkhana



Should have invited the the general who was bringing your PoWs..


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

VCheng said:


> But that still does not explain how an IAF MiG-21 was on the opposing side of the LoC.


Attempted retaliation to the stand-off weapons fired by Pakistan, IAF over-confidence because of the events of yesterday (not expecting Pakistan to escalate).

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## Rocky25

Goku-kun said:


> Yes you are but you don't make sense..
> you say that f-16 is shot down-where is the wreckage then?
> you say one pilot missing-how do we have two then?
> accept the truth..you are all talking and no action.


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## WebMaster

Rocky25 said:


> View attachment 542527


The other pilot went missing.


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## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> you did not say what was PoW number according to you..



You did not show anything about F16 that you shot in your dreams 

Ask air chief of IAF. May be he can get us some proof from his turban

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## Mentee

Iam gonna frame that Indian foreign office admission about Pakistani surgical strikes, in my room

Life couldn't get so promising - - - - -


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## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Attempted retaliation to the stand-off weapons fired by Pakistan, IAF over-confidence because of the events of yesterday (not expecting Pakistan to escalate).



So either the IAF RoE allow crossing over or the pilot ignored them?


----------



## Sneaker

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I know your question was regarding the Indian RoE's, but I was pointing out the premise behind it (chasing the PAF across the LoC) was wrong.
> 
> With respect to Indian RoE's, they threw those out the window yesterday with the incursion into Pakistan that involved dropping bombs on Pakistani territory. The IAF managed to make it back because the Pakistani RoE's (of allowing intruding aircraft to return after being warned) were in place and information about the IAF dropping bombs was not available till later.



This is what posters celebrating PoW here don't get. Engagement happened over outside Indian airspace. We engaged incoming bogies way before they could ingress.


----------



## Rocky25

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Attempted retaliation to the stand-off weapons fired by Pakistan, IAF over-confidence because of the events of yesterday (not expecting Pakistan to escalate).


Come on yaar... overconfidence with vintage Mig 21...


----------



## Goku-kun

Sneaker said:


> Sorry, can't thank a force which allows terrorists to freely operate from their territory.


again repeating that terrorist nuisance talk..first you beat them,blind them,put them through 3rd degree tortures and when they retaliate you blame Pakistan for it..


----------



## Mentee

Rocky25 said:


> Come on yaar... overconfidence with vintage Mig 21...


And an su 30


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

VCheng said:


> So either the IAF RoE allow crossing over or the pilot ignored them?


Could be either, but given the events of yesterday, I wouldn't be surprised if the IAF command gave authorization for the pilots to cross the LoC.


----------



## Sneaker

Areesh said:


> You did not show anything about F16 that you shot in your dreams



OK.. I am going to leave this topic here. I know this is a wound that still hasn't healed in pakistan's psyche, if it can be healed at all. It is OoT anyway.


----------



## Areesh

Sneaker said:


> OK.. I am going to leave this topic here. I know this is a wound that still hasn't healed in pakistan's psyche, if it can be healed at all. It is OoT anyway.



Show us the proof. Cut the bakwas


----------



## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Could be either, but given the events of yesterday, I wouldn't be surprised if the IAF command gave authorization for the pilots to cross the LoC.



Let's see what @Vibrio says in this matter. Either possibility opens up its own concerns.


----------



## Telescopic Sight

Mentee said:


> And an su 30


Which nobody has seen ! 
Be balanced in your understanding of what happened.


----------



## Sine Nomine

VCheng said:


> So either the IAF RoE allow crossing over or the pilot ignored them?


In matter of seconds, Mig 21 at full afterburner would have made into Pakistan,across the LOC.


Sneaker said:


> This is what posters celebrating PoW here don't get. Engagement happened over outside Indian airspace. We engaged incoming bogies way before they could ingress.


Hahaha you guys chased bogies,which took you to prepared ambush,rest is history.


----------



## Sneaker

Arsalan 345 said:


> use logic my friend.some of the indian people on social media is saying thanks to pak army.they understand things much better.



People have different way of thinking in India. Let them thank and I will not object. What pak army has done here is a good thing, abiding by geneva convention, for whatever reason. I do appreciate the professionalism. But not a blanket thank you. not happening.


----------



## WebMaster

AyanRay said:


> To sum it up, PAF didn't cross loc (unlike IAF), targeted Indian posts with bombs, non of them hit the target. MIG 21 chased them into their own territory, shot one and lost one.


Please source your post. Indian Media.


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## Sneaker

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> In matter of seconds, Mig 21 at full afterburner would have made into Pakistan,across the LOC.
> 
> Hahaha you guys chased bogies,which took you to prepared ambush,rest is history.



If you need prepared ambush to down bison, god help you guys.


----------



## ziaulislam

Sneaker said:


> Then how much? I am not saying 90K soldiers, but total PoWs with soldiers and civilians (soldier's family, civil servants etc) was 90K..


All of this mess was started by india
Had sardal patel advuse to trade Kashmir for Hyderabad (as hyderabad had it's accession to Pakistan) being listened today we would have been super power not China 

Second proxy war started in 1966 in bengal ended up in 1971 and still celebrated by india 

Third nuclear weapons started in 1973

So what moral authority are you guys throwing at us..

Just sit back deal with it rather hoing on for new war...wont be just Punjab this time damage will be extensive


----------



## YeBeWarned

@VCheng you must very sad right now


----------



## VCheng

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> In matter of seconds, Mig 21 at full afterburner would have made into Pakistan,across the LOC.



Sure, but what has that to do with IAF RoE or the pilot following them?


----------



## Jackdaws

Mav3rick said:


> Wouldn't IAF be aware of PAF/PA's Air Assets in the area? Why would they then take the chance? The most likely scenario is that they were shot down during air to air combat.


Doubt it. They must have been recently deployed.


----------



## Sneaker

Goku-kun said:


> again repeating that terrorist nuisance talk..first you beat them,blind them,put them through 3rd degree tortures and when they retaliate you blame Pakistan for it..



yeah, right.


----------



## Bratva

Sneaker said:


> I posted a blurry video before.. whole engagement happened outside our airspace.. but we have enough circumstantial evidence supporting the claim.. no other way to explain official claim of 2/3 pilots in custody.. second one must be your own pilot..



Blurry video ? how can we verify the veracity of blurry video? And what other circumstantial evidence you are talking about ?

Let the fog of war settle down, Pakistani version will be backed up with videos and other missing details.


----------



## CriticalThought

@Vibrio @randomradio and all other Indians claiming downing of an F-16 within Pakistani territory. First of all, the entire engagement would be visible on AWACS so you should be able to show us records. Second, even a heli flying at your side of the border, or even a drone could easily capture the wreckage. Pakistan can't simply hide a burning, smoldering plane. The heat is so high, it takes a few hours to be able to safely move the wreckage. You could have easily taken a video. Videos from Indian Kashmir are showing heli movements around the area. Why were they unable to capture the F-16 wreckage?


----------



## Jackdaws

Thorough Pro said:


> Whatever helps you keep high in your delusions, but NEVER forget, you got shafted again..... but I hear whores stop feeling that after a while



You must heard some wonderful bedtime stories as a kid. 
Anyways, never forget - where and how it all happened.


----------



## ProudPak

Sneaker said:


> Should have invited the the general who was bringing your PoWs..


You see u indians still think its 1971 and we are at war within. Now we are a nation. One people. And you are fighting for modi whilst we fight for pakistan. Your media disowned your pilots today. You have been humiliated. Ur claim to superpower and vedic power gone with gao mata. Enjoy at least Abhi has a cup of tea and nice food courtesy of Pak forces


----------



## Goku-kun

Sneaker said:


> OK.. I am going to leave this topic here. I know this is a wound that still hasn't healed in pakistan's psyche, if it can be healed at all. It is OoT anyway.


produce a single international media source which talks about your claim of taking down our f-16s?
I've been seeing them for quite a while now and no source is even talking about your version except indian media....one other things is that don't be ridiculous please? you are saying things which are applicable on you..you need burnol.


----------



## macnurv

Imran Khan said:


> Now they will shut the surgikal surgikal forever


This petty nation will never learn its lesson. These people will still talk nonsense regardless.

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## Jackdaws

Max said:


> you stopped them bcoz there would be mutual losses if war continues maybe we would have end up killing same amount of bengalis and bharatis.
> 
> We saw how indian forces acted when kashmiri were being bullied. its all over social media.


Lol. I wish I could even begin to fathom some logic here.


----------



## zulu

alphibeti said:


> No, it's our turn to conduct surgical strikes now on Indians. The real strikes, not fake ones like India. Guy, don't overlook this opportunity. We have hard earned this right. Now Indians will start crying here and there (London, Paris, DC, etc. etc.) and tirelessly bring the references to international laws. But Indians have always ignored any and every international law while dealing with Pakistan. Don't get trapped in Indian lies and tactics. They will again hit us when they get some strength.



OH bahi aur kitna maaryy gaa unhain jawab tu dy diyaa khud apni kal ki aur aaj ki feeling dekhoo cool down now let them have some breath really rough and tough day for them also thinking about their helicopter crash site but no comment as we are not indian media jo fazool credit lain without any proof.F 16 shot down claim tu koi bari baat hi nahii agar yeh keh dain we shot down UFO unky logon ny yeh bhi maan lainaa hai ""oye kun loog hu tussi oye""


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Sneaker said:


> This is what posters celebrating PoW here don't get. Engagement happened over outside Indian airspace. We engaged incoming bogies way before they could ingress.


You don't engage 'incoming bogies before they ingress', that is part of the RoE's both countries had in place till yesterday.

Airspace violations by both PAF and IAF occur commonly, and the RoE's typically revolve around warnings and forcing the intruding aircraft to return with no 'hot pursuit'. This is done by both countries to prevent escalation from the shooting down of aircraft.

The PAF deliberately chose not to cross the LoC and use stand-off weapons from Pakistani airspace to deny India any excuse for shooting at Pakistani aircraft. The mistake was from the IAF, that they chose to cross the LoC (again). The PAF may have anticipated the Indian response and was ready this time, and shot down the IAF fighters as soon as they crossed. 

The IAF possibly 'flew' right into a trap.

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## MultaniGuy

The Sandman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080
> WING Commander Abhinandan captured by Pakistani forces!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100697950643200000Respect for our troops who intervened and stopped charged up crowd
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100662960052101120Edit
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641612416339968
> *Major airports suspend flight operations across Punjab, KP*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100663025240100864




Things are getting from bad to worse.

Even my mother is talking to my relatives in Islamabad.

Hmmm...


----------



## Bratva

randomradio said:


> Look at that. As a more aggressive force, it's expected that the IAF fighter jet debris will fall on your side. Similarly, you can expect your F-16 to have fallen on your side as well.



Where is the video of downed PAF jet ? Pakistani TV JET released the indian jet crashing down video. If your MEA claims their soldeir saw a Pakistani jet crashing down, How the heck there is no video recorded by Air defence, forward post guys or whoever downed the Pakistani jet ? Like how Pakistanis made the video ?

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## Sneaker

Bratva said:


> Blurry video ? how can we verify the veracity of blurry video? And what other circumstantial evidence you are talking about ?
> 
> *Let the fog of war settle down, Pakistani version will be backed up with videos and other missing details.*



I had posted the video sometime ago. It came up around 9 ish? saying India downed paf jet trying to ingress. with reports of parachute deploying. Shortly after that reports of downing iaf jets emerged. ispr then claimed 3 pilots in custody. one among them admitted to hospital. There is no way it can be false info, the guy is paf pilot mistaken to be indian. I had been telling there is only 1 pilot in pak custody and now ispr changed their story as well..



ziaulislam said:


> All of this mess was started by india
> Had sardal patel advuse to trade Kashmir for Hyderabad (as hyderabad had it's accession to Pakistan) being listened today we would have been super power not China
> 
> Second proxy war started in 1966 in bengal ended up in 1971 and still celebrated by india
> 
> Third nuclear weapons started in 1973
> 
> So what moral authority are you guys throwing at us..
> 
> Just sit back deal with it rather hoing on for new war...wont be just Punjab this time damage will be extensive



oral authority? well we didn't attack J&K. pak did.


----------



## Sine Nomine

Sneaker said:


> If you need prepared ambush to down bison, god help you guys.


Bison is a capable fighter in dog fights. IAF Mig 21 are capable of firing R-73 and R77 for BVR.


----------



## AyanRay

WebMaster said:


> Please source your post. Indian Media.



PAF didn't cross loc - ur ISPR (and Indian Govt official statement), it released bombs (no proof needed). No damage due to it (ISPR silent on that issue, Indian MEA stated no damage). Mig 21 chased the PAF jets (Both ISPR and Indian MEA). One jet lost by IAF and PAF (Indian official statement), I know u won't agree with the last statement, but it's ok

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## Bratva

Sneaker said:


> I had posted the video sometime ago. It came up around 9 ish? saying India downed paf jet trying to ingress. with reports of parachute deploying. Shortly after that reports of downing iaf jets emerged. ispr then claimed 3 pilots in custody. one among them admitted to hospital. There is no way it can be false info, the guy is paf pilot mistaken to be indian. I had been telling there is only 1 pilot in pak custody and now ispr changed their story as well..



So where are the pictures of pilot parachuting down? Do you see the amount of pictures From Pakistani side today? and you think Indian soldiers dont have Cellular phones to capture pictures of what you are supposedly claiming happened ?

For the Pilot admitted in Hospital, like I said wait for that missing detail to be revealed. Then we will know what happened to that person.

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## Sneaker

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> You don't engage 'incoming bogies before they ingress', that is part of the RoE's both countries had in place *till yesterday*.
> 
> Airspace violations by both PAF and IAF occur commonly, and the RoE's typically revolve around warnings and forcing the intruding aircraft to return with no 'hot pursuit'. This is done by both countries to prevent escalation from the shooting down of aircraft.
> 
> The PAF deliberately chose not to cross the LoC and use stand-off weapons from Pakistani airspace to deny India any excuse for shooting at Pakistani aircraft. The mistake was from the IAF, that they chose to cross the LoC (again). The PAF may have anticipated the Indian response and was ready this time, and shot down the IAF fighters as soon as they crossed.
> 
> The IAF possibly 'flew' right into a trap.



Yeah, till yesterday.


----------



## Fawad alam

randomradio said:


> Look at that. As a more aggressive force, it's expected that the IAF fighter jet debris will fall on your side. Similarly, you can expect your F-16 to have fallen on your side as well.


I expect we should not talk without any proof.
Both sides agree that Pakistan shot down Indian planes,
Pakistani side is not agree about your F-16 claim, then if you have any proof then talk otherwise there is no use.
Please stop this bullshit.

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## Sine Nomine

VCheng said:


> Sure, but what has that to do with IAF RoE or the pilot following them?


Negligence of pilot.


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## VCheng

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Negligence of pilot.



We do not have information to conclude that yet.


----------



## AyanRay

So, IAF entered PAF twice in two days. PAF yet to cross loc.

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## xyxmt

Srinivas said:


> Just wait for it, this is not over !



no its not, this time you need to learn a real lesson
you people have no idea what war is and how to fight, you want to fight people who pray for death before they go to war??


----------



## Sneaker

Goku-kun said:


> produce a single international media source which talks about your claim of taking down our f-16s?
> I've been seeing them for quite a while now and no source is even talking about your version except indian media....one other things is that don't be ridiculous please? you are saying things which are applicable on you..you need burnol.



MEA released a direct press release. what else you need?


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100723919802298369

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## MultaniGuy

The claim that a Pakistani F-16 shot has been shot down is only claimed in Indian newspapers.

Not international media.


----------



## Bossman

AsianUnion said:


> Source Newyork times: Here is the confirmation of second jet which was destroyed and fell in Indian Occupied Kashmir:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian soldiers near the remains of an Indian aircraft after it shot down and crashed on Wednesday 2/27/2019.


This is their chopper


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Sneaker said:


> MEA released a direct press release. what else you need?







If what you say is true then please post the links to the evidence here.


----------



## Arsalan 345

Sneaker said:


> People have different way of thinking in India. Let them thank and I will not object. What pak army has done here is a good thing, abiding by geneva convention, for whatever reason. I do appreciate the professionalism. But not a blanket thank you. not happening.



whatever.i am expecting indian attack tonight.there are reports that captured pilot is an su-30 pilot and not the mig-21 pilot.they are saying that su-30 crashed in your kashmir due to negative vector.is this serious? i mean i know we hit two planes but i don't know the type of this other plane.


----------



## Sine Nomine

AyanRay said:


> So, IAF entered PAF twice in two days. PAF yet to cross loc.


PAF has downed Indian Jets two of em in one day,IAF has done nothing.


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## The Eagle

If an F-16 was down by any chance & miracle for India; none of you can imagine the claims mixed with jingoism & bravado by Indian Establishment. They would have managed people to forget two downed IAF jets, captured WC & those who lost their lives. I am sure, many desperate souls are writing & searching LM inventory with Sr. & keywords but of no use..... 

Shooting down an F-16, wouldn't go unnoticed and I am sure, LM is not forcing India to not to share evidence for sake of reputation... Most of Indian Media claims are made to support Modi election campaign and nothing else. Pakistan said no F-16 participated and we can't hide facts where OEM/US/LM does hold everything on record. How could Indian establishment misses the point that it will just get reported within minutes of shooting down. Get over it until & unless proven/evident.

Regards,

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## AyanRay

Fawad alam said:


> I expect we should not talk without any proof.
> Both sides agree that Pakistan shot down Indian planes,
> Pakistani side is not agree about your F-16 claim, then if you have any proof then talk otherwise there is no use.
> Please stop this bullshit.



Use common sense, how did two pilots captured suddenly become one? Both IK and PAF mentioned that the Indian jets we're engaged on Pakistani airspace. Where is the pics of other jet then? Multiply sources and eye wetneses have confirmed a plane going down in LAM valley, where is it?


----------



## Sneaker

Bratva said:


> So where are the pictures of pilot parachuting down? Do you see the amount of pictures From Pakistani side today? and you think Indian soldiers dont have Cellular phones to capture pictures of what you are supposedly claiming happened ?
> 
> For the Pilot admitted in Hospital, like I said wait for that missing detail to be revealed. Then we will know what happened to that person.



You can surely appreciate taking pictures 3 km far from the incident and right next to the wreckage. Offcours pak produced more photos. But, while it claimed 2 jets down, it produced only 1 wreckage.


----------



## Talon

Windjammer said:


> If we wait a little, then we may be able to paint more than one.
> @Hodor @Knuckles , where are you guys.


Sir itna rush lga hy idhr so I am refraining to reply or even read comments.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

AyanRay said:


> PAF didn't cross loc - ur ISPR (and Indian Govt official statement), it released bombs (no proof needed). No damage due to it (ISPR silent on that issue, Indian MEA stated no damage). Mig 21 chased the PAF jets (Both ISPR and Indian MEA). One jet lost by IAF and PAF (Indian official statement), I know u won't agree with the last statement, but it's ok







Evidence for your claims?


----------



## AyanRay

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> PAF has downed Indian Jets two of em in one day,IAF has done nothing.



Not as per my Govt's official statement.


----------



## randomradio

CriticalThought said:


> @Vibrio @randomradio and all other Indians claiming downing of an F-16 within Pakistani territory. First of all, the entire engagement would be visible on AWACS so you should be able to show us records. Second, even a heli flying at your side of the border, or even a drone could easily capture the wreckage. Pakistan can't simply hide a burning, smoldering plane. The heat is so high, it takes a few hours to be able to safely move the wreckage. You could have easily taken a video. Videos from Indian Kashmir are showing heli movements around the area. Why were they unable to capture the F-16 wreckage?



Except the military, no one else would be around to provide 'proof'. And the military releases information on their own time.

Normally you would expect DG ISPR vehemently denying the shooting down of an F-16. The fact that there has been no denial yet is good enough proof.

@Vibrio


----------



## Fawad alam

doorstar said:


> Pakistan closes airspace, will shoot down anything airborne until further notice


Ayesa nahin karo yaar, Kion Indians ko dara rahay ho?


----------



## Beethoven

The Eagle said:


> If an F-16 was down by any chance & miracle for India; none of you can imagine the claims mixed with jingoism & bravado by Indian Establishment. They would have managed people to forget two downed IAF jets, captured WC & those who lost their lives. I am sure, many desperate souls are writing & searching LM inventory with Sr. & keywords but of no use.....
> 
> Shooting down an F-16, wouldn't go unnoticed and I am sure, LM is not forcing India to not to share evidence for sake of reputation... Most of Indian Media claims are made to support Modi election campaign and nothing else. Pakistan said no F-16 participated and we can't hide facts where OEM/US/LM does hold everything on record. How could Indian establishment misses the point that it will just get reported within minutes of shooting down. Get over it until & unless proven/evident.
> 
> Regards,


Very well explained but indians butthurt and burning in vengence will never understand the voice of logic


----------



## Talon

abdulbarijan said:


> @Hodor bhai reported it wasn't a SU-30 that we took down today. If so, were they both fishbeds or a fishbed along with a fulcrum? can you please clarify?


Even a few sources of mine claimed su30 was shot down but I still dont believe it.Also ISPR announced we have only one pilot in custody and the other one died as per the videos so I still stand on my statement,though I could be proved wrong.I *think* both were Migs.

Let's make it clear JF-17 was involved in the kills and some say F-16 as well.One kill for each.There's a lots of information which hasn't been released relating to today's events.

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## Sneaker

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Bison is a capable fighter in dog fights. IAF Mig 21 are capable of firing R-73 and R77 for BVR.



still 2-2.5 gen jet. Still lot of mechanical issue. I am going to restrain myself from claiming that it was a mechanical failure that made Wg Cdr from ejecting rather than being shot down until he comes back and tell it himself.


----------



## his5850

Sneaker said:


> Sorry, can't thank a force which allows terrorists to freely operate from their territory.


Puter Proof da india sa asi baat nahi honi proof da


----------



## drunken-monke

Areesh said:


> No F16 can be seen in the video. Funny you guys believe in these jokers called as Indian media despite they embarrassing you again and again


You forget to read my post, I said as Claimed and not sure about credibility.. 

Meanwhile where is second downed IAF jet??


----------



## MultaniGuy

*Government Acknowledges Indian Air Force Pilot In Pakistan's Custody: LIVE Updates*
*IAF Strike In Pakistan: Prime Minister Narendra Modi is meeting with top officials including Advisor Ajit Doval, the Defence and Foreign Secretaries and intelligence officials.*
All India | Edited by Anuj Pant | Updated: February 27, 2019 21:09 IST

SHARE
*EMAIL*
meeting with top officials including Advisor Ajit Doval, the Defence and Foreign Secretaries and intelligence officials. A Pakistani F-16 aircraft crashed on its own territory, in the Lam Valley area along the Indian air space in Jammu and Kashmir's Poonch and Rajouri sectors.

Amid increasing tension, the entire airspace north of Delhi has been vacated, official sources said, according to news agency Press Trust of India.

Earlier in the day, Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj, in a visit to China, said India wants to avoid any "further escalation of the situation" and will "continue to act with responsibility and restraint".

The US asked Pakistan to take "meaningful action" against terror groups, with the Donald Trump administration calling for India and Pakistan to "exercise restraint" amid heightened tension between the two.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ind...-after-iaf-strike-at-balakot-pakistan-1999849

Looks like we have an Indian pilot in our hands. 

We should use him as a leverage point over India.


----------



## Beethoven

Hodor said:


> Sir itna rush lga hy idhr so I am refraining to reply or even read comments.


We understand...keep up the good job guys...we are proud of you

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## Max Pain

Mukunda Murthi Rao said:


> Where is the wreckage of the second jet shot down by PAF? Or the bodies of the pilots reportedly killed?
> 
> As far i can tell, you came in, we got one of yours, and in the chase, you shot one of us.
> 1 to 1 ratio


If you got one of ours, there shouldve been some form of evidence to substantiate that.

out here we have solid proof, a captured pilot.

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## Imran Khan

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## AyanRay

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Evidence for your claims?



Evidence? Dude I stay 1000s of miles away from the conflict zone. I am just referring to the official statements of both the countries. Apart from the claims of jets brought down, there is no or lil descripency between what ISPR and MEA said. PAF didn't cross loc-Fact, IAF crossed loc-Fact. IAF lost one jer-Fact/confirmed. Rest, I believe my Govt's official statement.


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## Fawad alam

AyanRay said:


> Use common sense, how did two pilots captured suddenly become one? Both IK and PAF mentioned that the Indian jets we're engaged on Pakistani airspace. Where is the pics of other jet then? Multiply sources and eye wetneses have confirmed a plane going down in LAM valley, where is it?


Dear i will not believe you except you show us any evidence, do not waste out time please.


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## randomradio

The Eagle said:


> If an F-16 was down by any chance & miracle for India; none of you can imagine the claims mixed with jingoism & bravado by Indian Establishment. They would have managed people to forget two downed IAF jets, captured WC & those who lost their lives. I am sure, many desperate souls are writing & searching LM inventory with Sr. & keywords but of no use.....
> 
> Shooting down an F-16, wouldn't go unnoticed and I am sure, LM is not forcing India to not to share evidence for sake of reputation... Most of Indian Media claims are made to support Modi election campaign and nothing else. Pakistan said no F-16 participated and we can't hide facts where OEM/US/LM does hold everything on record. How could Indian establishment misses the point that it will just get reported within minutes of shooting down. Get over it until & unless proven/evident.
> 
> Regards,



Ask your DG ISPR to deny Indian claims of the F-16 then.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uri-sector-officials/articleshow/68182444.cms

It will at least be a start, instead of asking us for sensitive proof.


----------



## Imran Khan

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## AyanRay

Max Pain said:


> If you got one of ours, there shouldve been some form of evidence to substantiate that.
> 
> out here we have solid proof, a captured pilot.



Engagement took place in Pakistan airspace. Wreakage will be at ur side

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## TOPGUN

Sneaker said:


> Well, it was paf jet.



Like is said you a dreamer, there were no PAF f-16's flying you and your pathetic media out of shame which you all cant digest is now making these false stories up.

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## Sneaker

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> If what you say is true then please post the links to the evidence here.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...n-of-indian-airspace/articleshow/68184136.cms


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

AyanRay said:


> Evidence? Dude I stay 1000s of miles away from the conflict zone. I am just referring to the official statements of both the countries. Apart from the claims of jets brought down, there is no or lil descripency between what ISPR and MEA said. PAF didn't cross loc-Fact, IAF crossed loc-Fact. IAF lost one jer-Fact/confirmed. Rest, I believe my Govt's official statement.







No evidence. Just meaningless conjecture and indianisms..........


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## Imran Khan

randomradio said:


> Ask your DG ISPR to deny Indian claims of the F-16 then.
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uri-sector-officials/articleshow/68182444.cms
> 
> It will at least be a start, instead of asking us for sensitive proof.


he said it already no F-16 was even used today . when journalists asked him abut f-16 indian claim

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## The Eagle

randomradio said:


> Ask your DG ISPR to deny Indian claims of the F-16 then.
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uri-sector-officials/articleshow/68182444.cms
> 
> It will at least be a start, instead of asking us for sensitive proof.



No need to, Indians are at liberty to claim anything until & unless proven. Get over it..... like 350 dead bodies.

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## CriticalThought

randomradio said:


> Except the military, no one else would be around to provide 'proof'. And the military releases information on their own time.
> 
> Normally you would expect DG ISPR vehemently denying the shooting down of an F-16. The fact that there has been no denial yet is good enough proof.
> 
> @Vibrio



I am happy to wait for this 'proof'. Unfortunately, all day long your own media was talking about the 'radio silence' from IAF, and when they did speak, it was a curt statement without taking any questions. Classical signs of hierarchy in disarray. 

On the other hand, DG ISPR happily fielded questions, was asked about the Indian claim of downing F-16, and he very clearly said no F-16 even participated in this operation. You can go and look at the video of his press conference freely available on the internet. Our Foreign Minister is on record categorically denying the Indian claim. And here you are trying to fib publicly about widely known facts. And then you have the gall to tell me I don't know how radars like S-400 work. Just like PAF has, Alhamdulillah, made a completely joke out of your airforce, Insha Allah it will do the same against all your assets. Wait and watch.

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## randomradio

Hodor said:


> Even a few sources of mine claimed su30 was shot down but I still dont believe it.Also ISPR announced we have only one pilot in custody and the other one died as per the videos so I still stand on my statement though I could be proved wrong.I think both were Migs.
> 
> Let's make it clear JF-17 was involved in the kills and some say F-16 as well.One kill for each.There's a lots of information which hasn't been released relating to today's events.



If a Su-30 would have been shot down in Indian or Pakistani territory, you would have got the information by now.


----------



## Sneaker

TOPGUN said:


> Like is said you a dreamer, there were no PAF f-16's flying you and your pathetic media out of shame which you all cant digest is now making these false stories up.



may be JF17 then.


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## AyanRay

randomradio said:


> Ask your DG ISPR to deny Indian claims of the F-16 then.
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uri-sector-officials/articleshow/68182444.cms
> 
> It will at least be a start, instead of asking us for sensitive proof.



Good point, not a single statement from ISPR rejecting the claim


----------



## Sneaker

Arsalan 345 said:


> whatever.i am expecting indian attack tonight.there are reports that captured pilot is an su-30 pilot and not the mig-21 pilot.they are saying that su-30 crashed in your kashmir due to negative vector.is this serious? i mean i know we hit two planes but i don't know the type of this other plane.



He was SU 30 pilot transferred to Mig upon promotion.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Sneaker said:


> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...n-of-indian-airspace/articleshow/68184136.cms





indian media is a propaganda machine which only tells lies. Can I please have GENUINE, HONEST, RELIABLE and IRREFUTABLE evidence to back your claims..........

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## Ali Tariq

randomradio said:


> Normally you would expect DG ISPR vehemently denying the shooting down of an F-16. The fact that there has been no denial yet is good enough proof.
> 
> @Vibrio





randomradio said:


> Ask your DG ISPR to deny Indian claims of the F-16 then.
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uri-sector-officials/articleshow/68182444.cms
> 
> It will at least be a start, instead of asking us for sensitive proof.


DG IPSR categorically said that NO F-16 was involved in today's op.


----------



## his5850

drunken-monke said:


> You forget to read my post, I said as Claimed and not sure about credibility..
> 
> Meanwhile where is second downed IAF jet??


it's debris fall in your side of Kashmir which you are calling PAF F-16


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## Imran Khan

Sneaker said:


> may be JF17 then.


phly tum log apna mind apna lo ke kerna kya hai

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## Sneaker

his5850 said:


> Puter Proof da india sa asi baat nahi honi proof da


Your own guy posted picture of JeM sign board inside pakistan.


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## AyanRay

Imran Khan said:


> he said it already no F-16 was even used today . when journalists asked him abut f-16 indian claim



Maybe some other jet. MEA didn't mention F-16 either. Was there a complete rejection that no plane was brought down?


----------



## xyxmt

AsianUnion said:


> India lost two advanced Fighter jets and Three pilots. It is a shame for all of Indian Military. Modi govt, Media and its repeated lies.
> 
> 
> 
> Returned with Interest as always!!!!



India is like: but but but we only downed your trees, this is no fair, hum ne khailty

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## mshan44



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## Imran Khan

Sneaker said:


> He was SU 30 pilot transferred to Mig upon promotion.


log trakki ker ke oper jaty hain ye duny se jany ka plan bana raha tha kya bhi ? mig--21 to zameen per khara khara crsh ho sakta hai

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## Sneaker

Imran Khan said:


> phly tum log apna mind apna lo ke kerna kya hai



Our mind is clear that it was paf jet. Now your PM says f16 was involved, your ispr says they were not. We can't help.


----------



## MultaniGuy

Indian Pilot in Pakistani custody, Russian media:






*Alleged Video of ‘Well-Treated’ Indian Pilot in Pakistan's Custody Goes Viral*
© Photo: Ammara Ahmad/twitter
ASIA & PACIFIC
18:02 27.02.2019Get short URL
Topic:
Conflict Between Indian, Pakistan Escalates Over Exchange of Airstrikes in Kashmir (20)
 0 41
Indian Pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was captured after his MIG-21 aircraft was shot down by Pakistan air defences on Wednesday morning, forcing him to eject and land in the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir.

New Delhi (Sputnik) — A video on social media, supposedly showing the captured Indian fighter pilot, is going viral. In the video, the Indian pilot is seen describing his good experience in the custody of Pakistani authorities, who are interrogating him. He is also seen urging Indian forces to reciprocate this when dealing Pakistani troops.

The pilot is heard saying, "I wish to put this on record and I will not change my statement if I go to my country that officers of the Pakistani army have looked after me very well and they are thorough gentlemen…I am very impressed by the Pakistani Army."

According to the video tweet, the pilot seemed to be in "good spirits" and was enjoying his tea.


https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902271072800969-indian-pilot-pakistan-custody/


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sneaker said:


> Our mind is clear that it was paf jet. Now your PM says f16 was involved, your ispr says they were not. We can't help.


you are a nation of chutiyas





Enjoy

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## Imran Khan

AyanRay said:


> Maybe some other jet. MEA didn't mention F-16 either. Was there a complete rejection that no plane was brought down?


its been 12 hours now not a single evidence or a pic clip or anything come out . even if its crashed in pakistan its 2019 social media have 100s of images and clips of it . its a plain lie of your gov .

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## Sneaker

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> indian media is a propaganda machine which only tells lies. Can I please have* GENUINE, HONEST, RELIABLE and IRREFUTABLE evidence* to back your claims..........



What constitutes this? Like what do you consider can full-fill this criteria. let me guess, nothing.


----------



## randomradio

Imran Khan said:


> he said it already no F-16 was even used today . when journalists asked him abut f-16 indian claim





CriticalThought said:


> I am happy to wait for this 'proof'. Unfortunately, all day long your own media was talking about the 'radio silence' from IAF, and when they did speak, it was a curt statement without taking any questions. Classical signs of hierarchy in disarray.
> 
> On the other hand, DG ISPR happily fielded questions, was asked about the Indian claim of downing F-16, and he very clearly said no F-16 even participated in this operation. You can go and look at the video of his press conference freely available on the internet. Our Foreign Minister is on record categorically denying the Indian claim. And here you are trying to fib publicly about widely known facts. And then you have the gall to tell me I don't know how radars like S-400 work. Just like PAF has, Alhamdulillah, made a completely joke out of your airforce, Insha Allah it will do the same against all your assets. Wait and watch.





Ali Tariq said:


> DG IPSR categorically said that NO F-16 was involved in today's op.



Not good enough. Let him categorically say "No F-16s were shot down", since that's the exact claim we've made.



The Eagle said:


> No need to, Indians are at liberty to claim anything until & unless proven. Get over it..... like 350 dead bodies.



The death toll is likely much higher than that. JeM terrorists and leaders had gathered there to celebrate the Pulwama attack.


----------



## mshan44

He is #Vijaynandan, the youngr brother of #Abhinandan. He just contactd #PakArmy to knw about his brothr. He is also a #SayNotoWar supporter. Indian authorities r restricting him from media. We assure him that his brother will soon return to home unharmed. #PakistanArmyZindabad

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## Sneaker

Imran Khan said:


> its been 12 hours now not a single evidence or a pic clip or anything come out . even if its crashed in pakistan its 2019 social media have 100s of images and clips of it . its a plain lie of your gov .



By that logic ISPR lied.. there are no pictures of second IAF jet as well.


----------



## Mukunda Murthi Rao

Max Pain said:


> If you got one of ours, there shouldve been some form of evidence to substantiate that.
> 
> out here we have solid proof, a captured pilot.


We claim the f16 went down in your territory, so it is difficult to ascertain that claim

However, you claim to have shot down two aircrafts. You have shown the wreckage of one and parraded its pilot, what about the other?


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Sneaker said:


> What constitutes this? Like what do you consider can full-fill this criteria. let me guess, nothing.






Need evidence from Western or Russian sources. Anything indian is a lie or propaganda.


----------



## CriticalThought

randomradio said:


> Not good enough. Let him categorically say "No F-16s were shot down", since that's the exact claim we've made.
> 
> 
> 
> The death toll is likely much higher than that. JeM terrorists and leaders had gathered there to celebrate the Pulwama attack.



Free lesson in logical thinking: when you make a claim, you need to substantiate it with evidence.


----------



## Great Janjua

Sneaker said:


> What constitutes this? Like what do you consider can full-fill this criteria. let me guess, nothing.


Let me guess something you have no life arguing over fake shit ain't gonna take you far in life


----------



## Arsalan 345

Mukunda Murthi Rao said:


> Where is the wreckage of the second jet shot down by PAF? Or the bodies of the pilots reportedly killed?
> 
> As far i can tell, you came in, we got one of yours, and in the chase, you shot one of us.
> 1 to 1 ratio





Sneaker said:


> He was SU 30 pilot transferred to Mig upon promotion.



transferred to mig-21? from advanced plane to old plane? i still feel that he is su-30 pilot and we hit su-30.i feel that the mig pilot died in cmh hospital.

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## Sneaker

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> you are a nation of chutiyas
> 
> View attachment 542542
> 
> Enjoy


 he he, edited thinking I didn't notice the typo?


----------



## Path-Finder



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## Side-Winder

Any possibility second "jet" was actually Indian chopper that india says "crashed" killing 6 officers onboard?


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## randomradio

CriticalThought said:


> Free lesson in logical thinking: when you make a claim, you need to substantiate it with evidence.



As I said, the military will reveal details on its own.

But you guys can deny it. How hard is it?


----------



## Sneaker

Imran Khan said:


> log trakki ker ke oper jaty hain ye duny se jany ka plan bana raha tha kya bhi ? mig--21 to zameen per khara khara crsh ho sakta hai



Due to high crash rate with-in IAF, only experienced pilots are posted to Migs. Moreover, you don't have Su wreckage.


----------



## Bratva

randomradio said:


> Ask your DG ISPR to deny Indian claims of the F-16 then.
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uri-sector-officials/articleshow/68182444.cms
> 
> It will at least be a start, instead of asking us for sensitive proof.



Did you even watch the DG ISPR presser in morning ? He denied that already


----------



## IceCold

xyxmt said:


> India is like: but but but we only downed your trees, this is no fair, hum ne khailty


Now they have also downed our imaginary F-16 which never took part in the OP to begin with.

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## Srinivas

xyxmt said:


> no its not, this time you need to learn a real lesson
> you people have no idea what war is and how to fight, you want to fight people who pray for death before they go to war??


stop acting like saints, you are supporters and nurturers of Jaiesh and LET.


----------



## Imran Khan

Sneaker said:


> By that logic ISPR lied.. there are no pictures of second IAF jet as well.


there are dozens of them kashmiris chanting anti india slogons over wreckage


----------



## Oruc

oh boy. like 350 bodies now we have a missing F-16.


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## MultaniGuy

randomradio said:


> As I said, the military will reveal details on its own.
> 
> But you guys can deny it. How hard is it?


Where is proof that Pakistani F-16 was shot down by Indian forces? Where is the evidence?

Any photographs?

We have photographs and video of your captured Indian soldier


----------



## Sneaker

Side-Winder said:


> Any possibility second "jet" was actually Indian chopper that india says "crashed" killing 6 officers onboard?



It crashed 100 km inside the border.


----------



## Ali Tariq

randomradio said:


> Not good enough. Let him categorically say "No F-16s were shot down", since that's the exact claim we've made


Looks like something really hit your head hard. Koi na, you will get soon by each passing day.


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## Patriots




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## Imran Khan

Sneaker said:


> Due to high crash rate with-in IAF, only experienced pilots are posted to Migs. Moreover, you don't have Su wreckage.


ohh that is also a point we have war trophy and we are happy with what we have

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## Fawad alam

Imran Khan said:


> he said it already no F-16 was even used today . when journalists asked him abut f-16 indian claim


Correct.

Dear Indians please tell your govt to provide any evidence to claim, otherwise this is total bullshit.
If suppose we lost one F-16 but you do not have any proof (otherwise our ISPR will except, there is no shame this is war, we are alive to die one day and if we die in war then this is our honor). 
We will not believe in Indian Govt/Media claims
Please do not flood with nonsense.

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## Sine Nomine

Imran Khan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Someone please teach this guy.


----------



## CriticalThought

randomradio said:


> As I said, the military will reveal details on its own.
> 
> But you guys can deny it. How hard is it?



Well, our military will also reveal its proofs, in due time. So for now, don't peddle your unverified propaganda on this forum.

@WebMaster @The Eagle we should come down hard on their 'senior' posters peddling this BS such as @Vibrio @Nilgiri @randomradio @Joe Shearer these should be given thread bans if not outright bans if they peddle their unsubstantiated claims.

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## Sneaker

Imran Khan said:


> there are dozens of them kashmiris chanting anti india slogons over wreckage


M-17, already reported. 5 IAF personnel and 1 civilian lost their life.


----------



## RPK

Clutch said:


> lol .. that's the stupids thing I've heard... What military puts their personal in intentional harms way?


Goi said it is carry out preemptive strikes only not on paf or civilians so you strike is on near Indian military installation. Do you think India doesn’t have air defense in these places?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Mukunda Murthi Rao said:


> We claim the f16 went down in your territory, so it is difficult to ascertain that claim
> 
> However, you claim to have shot down two aircrafts. You have shown the wreckage of one and parraded its pilot, what about the other?


It was Pakistani media who even traced Ajmal Kasabs house and showed interviews of his neighbours.

In Jabba Pakistani media is showing those craters and all international media is allowed to go there.

We shot down 2 of your fuken jets.
We have your;






We tapped 6 of your military installations avioding unnessecary casualties (not to harm) but to show you our capability to strike you in the day light!

—-

All you have is bakchodi & beghairati..

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## Side-Winder

Sneaker said:


> It crashed 100 km inside the border.


Chopper is an Easy Kill for a BVR


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## Sneaker

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Need evidence from Western or Russian sources. Anything indian is a lie or propaganda.



Like news report? or govt report?



Great Janjua said:


> Let me guess something you have no life arguing over fake shit ain't gonna take you far in life



I do not see you doing anything else.


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## Imran Khan

Sneaker said:


> M-17, already reported. 5 IAF personnel and 1 civilian lost their life.


my brother mi-17 was not crashed in sri ngar airport ?


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100728815049981954


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## Fawad alam

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It was Pakistani media who even traced Ajmal Kasabs house and showed interviews of his neighbours.
> 
> In Jabba Pakistani media is showing those craters and all international media is allowed to go there.
> 
> We shot down 2 of your fuken jets.
> We have your;
> View attachment 542544
> 
> 
> We tapped 6 of your military installations avioding unnessecary casualties (not to harm) but to show you our capability to strike you in the day light!
> 
> —-
> 
> All you have is bakchodi & beghairati..


Bohat Aala


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## Michael Corleone

did @Śakra get shot down? are you avhinandhan?

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## JonAsad

AsianUnion said:


> The single jet remained inside India and lured Indian jets closer.
> 
> As Indian jets came close the last remaining Pakistani jet also crossed into Pakistani territory, gained altitude and speed and sped off.



there is a contradiction - single jet remained inside or all?


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## Great Janjua

Bratva said:


> Did you even watch the DG ISPR presser in morning ? He denied that already


They are posting the same video off Indian jet going down but captured by a few locals from IOK side,You can find the same video from pakistan side when their aircraft was circled and hit both the videos are on this forum and I quite frankly can't be arsed to look for them just to show to these deluded ganges dwellers

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sneaker said:


> M-17, already reported. 5 IAF personnel and 1 civilian lost their life.


Here is the second Mig which killed its pilots;

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india...rashes-in-kashmir-s-budgam-1466030-2019-02-27

Helicopter is a separate news.

@Imran Khan @Areesh. @Windjammer @Irfan Baloch @Oscar.

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## Sneaker

Arsalan 345 said:


> transferred to mig-21? from advanced plane to old plane? i still feel that he is su-30 pilot and we hit su-30.i feel that the mig pilot died in cmh hospital.



only experienced pilots getting posted to fly migs. It was determined that pilot inexperience s causing higher crash rate.

Even if he died, you can post pics of his service record, badge etc right? they don't dis-appear?
And what do you think his Indian family will do? not notice his absence? So why would India even try to hide it?


----------



## Secret Service

Thank you.. PAKISTAN AIR FORCE

WE ARE PROUD OF YOU


----------



## his5850

AyanRay said:


> Maybe some other jet. MEA didn't mention F-16 either. Was there a complete rejection that no plane was brought down?


The JeM has been *banned in Pakistan* since 2002 and JeM people were arrested in Pakistan they have no power in Pakistan 

weren't Indian army capturing Kashmir people using plait gun betting Innocent people and you don't expect any reaction from them

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## xyxmt

Srinivas said:


> stop acting like saints, you are supporters and nurturers of Jaiesh and LET.




you are supporter of terrorist Indian Army who shoots kids and woman and rapes, you did the crime and this is the payment you got

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## Meengla

Mentee said:


> So where's the Indian footage of the yesterday's so called surgical strikes?



I will never forget the words of the Pak Army Spokesman Maj. Ghafoor from his press conference yesterday: "In Urdu language, there's saying that a wise enemy is better than a foolish friend. But our enemy India has turned out to be a foolish enemy".

He was alluding to the tall Indian (official!!) claim of the strike against Pakistan where '350 terrorists' were killed in some 'buildings'.

Of course it would be impossible for Pak Army to hide that kind of damage inside Pakistan in such a populated region like Mansehra: The dead bodies/funerals, the injured to the hospitals, the bomb parts, the destroyed buildings... all those are just not possible to hide when only a couple of men with cell phones can document them and it would go 'viral'.

Fools Indians!!! Should have just narrated some face-saving but believable story about their strikes. Damn fools!!!

PS. So my American wife, alarmed and asked me after work/5 pm yesterday, is it true that India has attacked 'terrorists' inside Pakistan? I said: What else you expect the Indians to say? Since 9/11 any country can attack anyone on the pretext of attacking 'terrorists'.

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## mshan44

چند ﺍﻧﮉﯾﻦ ﭘﺎﺋﻠﭧ ﺟﺪﯾﺪ ﺟﻨﮕﯽ ﺟﮩﺎﺯﻭﮞ ﮐﯽ ﭨﺮﯾﻨﻨﮓ ﻟﯿﻨﮯ ﺭﻭﺱ ﮔﺌﮯ ﺭﻭﺱ ﮐﺎ ﺍﻧﺴﭩﺮﮐﭩﺮ ﺩﻭﺭﺍﻥِ ﭨﺮﯾﻨﻨﮓ ﺑﺘﺎ ﺭﮨﺎ ﺗﮭﺎ ﺍﺱ ﺑﭩﻦ ﮐﻮ ﺩﺑﺎﻧﮯ ﺳﮯ ﻃﯿﺎﺭﮦ ﺍﻭﭘﺮ ﺟﺎﺋﮯ ﮔﺎ ﺍﺱ ﺑﭩﻦ ﮐﻮ ﺩﺑﺎﻧﮯ 
ﺳﮯ ﻃﯿﺎﺭہ ﺩﺍﺋﯿﮟ ﮐﻮ ﻣﮍﮮ ﮔﺎ ﺍﺱ ﺑﭩﻦ ﮐﻮ ﺩﺑﺎﻧﮯ ﺳﮯ ﻃﯿﺎﺭﮦ ﺑﺎﺋﯿﮟ ﮐﻮ ﻣﮍﮮ ﮔﺎ ﭨﺮﯾﻨﻨﮓ ﮐﮯ ﺍﺧﺘﺘﺎﻡ ﭘﺮ ﺍﻧﮉﯾﻦ ﭘﺎﺋﻠﭩﺲ ﻧﮯ ﺳﻮﺍﻝ 
ﻮﭼﮭﻨﮯ ﮐﮯ ﻟﯿﮯﮨﺎﺗﮫ ﮐﮭﮍﮮ ﮐﯿﮯ ﺍﻭﺭ ﺳﺐ ﮐﺎ ﺍﯾﮏ ﮨﯽ ﺳﻮﺍﻝ ﺗﮭﺎ ﻃﯿﺎﺭﮮ ﮐﻮ ﻧﯿﭽﮯ ﮐﯿﺴﮯ ﻻﯾﺎ ﺟﺎﺋﮯ ﮔﺎ۔؟ ﺍﻧﺴﭩﺮﮐﭩﺮ ﻧﮯ ﻟﻤﺒﺎ ﺳﺎﻧﺲ ﺑﮭﺮ ﮐﺮ ﺍﻧﮉﯾﻦ ﭘﺎﺋﻠﭩﺲ ﺳﮯ ﮐﮩﺎ " ﺍﺱ ﺑﺎﺕ ﮐﯽ فکر ﺗﻢ ﻧﮧ ﮐﺮﻭ 
ﺍﻭﺭ ﯾﮧ ﮐﺎﻡ ﺗﻢ ﭘﺎﮐﺴﺘﺎﻧﯽ ﺟﻮﺍﻧﻮﮞ ﭘﺮ ﭼﮭﻮﮌ ﺩﻭ ﻭﮦ ﺧﻮﺩ تمہیںﻃﯿﺎﺭﻭﮞ ﺳﻤﯿﺖ ﻧﯿﭽﮯ ﻟﮯ ﺁﺋﯿﮟگے

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## Fawad alam

MultaniGuy said:


> Proof of this? What is this nonsense?


You are asking proof from the Indians, are you out of your mind....WT*
No body in this whole world now believes Indian.

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## Jinn Baba

randomradio said:


> Turns out it was Wing Commander Abhinandan who shot down the F-16.



Right now you guys are in shock and extreme shame. Chant this all you want, but the whole world knows the truth. You faked the strike, you faked this downing of F16 too. To date, India has provided NO evidence to prove SirJiKal strike 1 or 2, or shooting of PAF jet. Even your MEA didnt not claim an F16 was shot. The official story is that ground forces saw a plane going down - the only one there are any pictures or any proof of is one of yours.

So claim all you want, but remember - us Pakistsnis will never let you live this down! We won, you lost AGAIN!!!


----------



## Path-Finder

MultaniGuy said:


> Proof of this? What is this nonsense?



there is none!

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## Imran Khan

Sneaker said:


> Where will you keep it, just beside your downed jet?


yeah we will keep it few days near our jets may be he learn how to fight


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## xyxmt

IceCold said:


> Now they have also downed our imaginary F-16 which never took part in the OP to begin with.



dont forget

300 terrorists were sitting on the tree
humpty dumpty went on the killing spree
they dropped a bomb and flee
and killed our beloved tree

what happened the next day is the best part

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## Arsalan 345

Sneaker said:


> By that logic ISPR lied.. there are no pictures of second IAF jet as well.





Sneaker said:


> only experienced pilots getting posted to fly migs. It was determined that pilot inexperience s causing higher crash rate.
> 
> Even if he died, you can post pics of his service record, badge etc right? they don't dis-appear?
> And what do you think his Indian family will do? not notice his absence? So why would India even try to hide it?



i don't know.your logic is also good.i think we hit two planes.first ispr said that he is in hospital,now they are saying that we don't have second pilot.i think he died.i am sorry for the loss if true.


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## Fawad alam

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156343838503721




For our neighbors who believe there Govt/Media stories.

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## Sneaker

Side-Winder said:


> Chopper is an Easy Kill for a BVR



Not over 100 kms.


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## Arsalan 345

Who is Wing Commander #Abhinandan Varthaman of the Indian Air Force? 1: He's a Sukhoi 30 pilot, Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was commissioned in 2004 as a Flying Officer.

He is the son of Air Marshal Simhakutty Varthaman, who served as the AOC-in-C of Eastern Air Command in Shillong from August 1, 2011 to November 30, 2012.

His father had joined the IAF as a fighter pilot in 1973, and is among the few select pilots who hold the distinction of having flown 40 types of aircraft with over 4,000 flying hours to his credit.

Wing Commander Abhinandan’s father served as the chief test pilot of the elite Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment (ASTE) of IAF in Bangalore, and chief flying instructor at fighter training wing in Andhra Pradesh.

Wing Commander Abhinandan’s father is the recipient of the presidential awards of Athi Vishist Seva Medal (AVSM), Vayu Sena Medal (VM) and Vishist Seva Medal (VSM).

Air Marshal Simhakutty Varthaman had played an important role in up gradation of the Mirage-2000.

His father also head of a high-powered panel to examine different aspects of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) project.

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## Sneaker

Imran Khan said:


> my brother mi-17 was not crashed in sri ngar airport ?



Nope. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...budgam-2-pilots-dead/articleshow/68179349.cms

If you notice, it was initially reported as mig crash, but later clarified to be m17.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Sneaker said:


> You can surely appreciate taking pictures 3 km far from the incident and right next to the wreckage. Offcours pak produced more photos. But, while it claimed 2 jets down, it produced only 1 wreckage.


The second plane went down on the Indian side of the LoC so Pakistan would not have images of that wreckage.

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## Joe Shearer

CriticalThought said:


> Well, our military will also reveal its proofs, in due time. So for now, don't peddle your unverified propaganda on this forum.
> 
> @WebMaster @The Eagle we should come down hard on their 'senior' posters peddling this BS such as @Vibrio @Nilgiri @randomradio @Joe Shearer these should be given thread bans if not outright bans if they peddle their unsubstantiated claims.



Which claim? Where? When? Or are you the Voice of Pakistan?


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## Cent4

Emergency evacuation at a PAF related facility


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## Sneaker

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Here is the second Mig which killed its pilots;
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india...rashes-in-kashmir-s-budgam-1466030-2019-02-27
> 
> Helicopter is a separate news.
> 
> @Imran Khan @Areesh. @Windjammer @Irfan Baloch @Oscar.



Nope, same report, mis-reported earlier. 
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...budgam-2-pilots-dead/articleshow/68179349.cms


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## LeGenD

Vapnope said:


> @Oscar @LeGenD
> Can you please put us out of this misery and confirm which planes were shot down?


Bro, I have learned from one source that both were MiGs. I will let you know, if I receive an update.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

randomradio said:


> The death toll is likely much higher than that. JeM terrorists and leaders had gathered there to celebrate the Pulwama attack.


https://tribune.com.pk/story/1919080/1-no-blood-no-bodies-no-debris-no-tragedy/

Nope, nothing, nada, zilch. More exaggerations by India led Modi.

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## newb3e

Sneaker said:


> Nope, same report, mis-reported earlier.
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...budgam-2-pilots-dead/articleshow/68179349.cms


i respect your bravely or you are zaleel like your people! itni gundi honay keh baad chotiap karna is an art! 

keep up the good work i hope you get selected to play part in uri uri 2


----------



## Patriots

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1056077124576987


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## abrar khan

Sneaker said:


> Sorry, can't thank a force which allows terrorists to freely operate from their territory.


but your Pilot Abhi, S.No.27981 is thankful to our forces hospitality and saving his a** from civilians. You can find easily his video viral on the net.


----------



## atya

Cent4 said:


> Emergency evacuation at a PAF related facility


Is this confirmed info? What's happening?


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The second plane went down on the Indian side of the LoC so Pakistan would not have images of that wreckage.


But we do have lock on avionic pictures before we shot it.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*OK, no more discussions on the alleged F-16 being shot down until there is more evidence supporting that claim.

We've all seen the fantastic claims about both the surgical strikes after Uri and the strikes yesterday from India, so barring concrete evidence we're not entertaining speculation.*

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## Arsalan 345

captured pilot with family.old photo.


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## Meengla

Fawad alam said:


> You are asking proof from the Indians, are you out of your mind....WT*
> No body in this whole world now believes Indian.



Follow the usual anti-Pak NY Times discourse against Pakistan--most of the comments negative, well, because Indians just outnumber Pakistanis.

The article itself at: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/...Top+Stories&pgtype=Homepage#commentsContainer

But one American Neil from Texas is saying this:


https://nyti.ms/2IGdHnz#permid=30811668

"May be now India and Indians will realize that their military is absolutely incompetent. They are good at parading, smart salutes, cartoonish old British Raj uniforms - and yes, bands. And these bands still play British military songs - after 70 years of Independence. Oh yes, they are also good golfers. No base in India is without an 18 hole course. All, I mean all, Indian professional golfers are sons of Indian military officers. I am spending my 4 the winter here in Mumbai. *Yesterday, Indian tv and media could not glorify enough this "surgical strike" that supposedly killed 300 terrorists. Pamela Constable - a long time south Asia correspondent is reporting in the Post - there has been zero independent verification of that claim. Pakistan is a tiny country - a couple of Indian states have more people than Pakistan does. But they have guts and sure some bravado - but they always end up humiliating India - because India walks in their trap. This incident started because of a terrorist attack that killed some 50 Indian soldiers in India itself. As it became clear that this terrorist was born and bred in India - Indians refused to accept it. The convenient - as always - culprit is Pakistan. No proof, nothing. And now there has been more tragic loss. And a big time loss of credibility. All because of incompetent military and power hungry politicians."*

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## abrar khan

Sneaker said:


> you did not say what was PoW number according to you..


Pilot Abhi, S.No.27981 (POW )


----------



## randomradio

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> https://tribune.com.pk/story/1919080/1-no-blood-no-bodies-no-debris-no-tragedy/
> 
> Nope, nothing, nada, zilch. More exaggerations by India led Modi.



The death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal it at this time.

We dropped 10 Spice-2000 bombs and 2 Popeye missiles at the targets. 6 M-2000s crossed the LoC and fired at standoff ranges. So there's no way there wasn't any effect. That defied common sense.


----------



## Foxtrot Delta

Cent4 said:


> Emergency evacuation at a PAF related facility



Statement without proof? Who would believe that?


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

randomradio said:


> The death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal it at this time.
> 
> We dropped 10 Spice-2000 bombs and 2 Popeye missiles at the targets. 6 M-2000s crossed the LoC and fired at standoff ranges. So there's no way there wasn't any effect. That defied common sense.


Right, there are multiple reporters on the ground for different news organizations and somehow there is absolutely ZERO evidence of casualties.

Stop living in fantasy land. At least have the courage to accept that there is no evidence corroborating Indian claims at the moment.

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## fitpOsitive

Jinn Baba said:


> Right now you guys are in shock and extreme shame. Chant this all you want, but the whole world knows the truth. You faked the strike, you faked this downing of F16 too. To date, India has provided NO evidence to prove SirJiKal strike 1 or 2, or shooting of PAF jet. Even your MEA didnt not claim an F16 was shot. The official story is that ground forces saw a plane going down - the only one there are any pictures or any proof of is one of yours.
> 
> So claim all you want, but remember - us Pakistsnis will never let you live this down! We won, you lost AGAIN!!!


And this Mr pilot will be received as hero, and will be made air chief in coming years.


----------



## zeeshangul

randomradio said:


> The death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal it at this time.
> 
> We dropped 10 Spice-2000 bombs and 2 Popeye missiles at the targets. 6 M-2000s crossed the LoC and fired at standoff ranges. So there's no way there wasn't any effect. That defied common sense.


you can blabber anything you want. where are the proofs ? pictures ? videos of your so called surgical strikes.


----------



## randomradio

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Right, there are multiple reporters on the ground for different news organizations and somehow there is absolutely ZERO evidence of casualties.
> 
> Stop living in fantasy land. At least have the courage to accept that there is no evidence corroborating Indian claims at the moment.



Whatchu talking about? There is no media at the place of the strikes.

The PA has cordoned off the area.


----------



## Goku-kun

Sneaker said:


> MEA released a direct press release. what else you need?


Our Prime Minister,DGISPR and foreign ministry has also issued an statement/press-release.What else do you need? when you aren't ready to accept our version than what makes you think that we will accept yours and especially which is without evidence.


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## Jinn Baba

fitpOsitive said:


> And this Mr pilot will be received as hero, and will be made air chief in coming years.



Good! They will then never dare striking Pakistan again without expecting retaliation.


----------



## D!nGa Ch!Ba

So guys its time to increase thunder price.

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## The Eagle

Lets be sure that this thread is cleared off any derailing. 

Regards,

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## Arsalan 345

randomradio said:


> Whatchu talking about? There is no media at the place of the strikes.
> 
> The PA has cordoned off the area.



believe in reality my friend.locals are everywhere.it's not possible to hide.paf trapped iaf this time.even we hit your mi-17.we don't want to accept it because of international pressure.new delhi knows everything.now new update is modi again gives free hand to all branches.

and your pilot old photo below.kindly thank pakistan army for saving him.


----------



## fitpOsitive

D!nGa Ch!Ba said:


> So guys its time to increase thunder price.


I will say make it cheaper.


----------



## D!nGa Ch!Ba

I told you guys they shouldn't cross the 4KM as everything starts with 4 in the era of khan can end into a complete finish. Remember khan started with 4 constituencies


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## Jinn Baba

randomradio said:


> The death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal it at this time.
> 
> We dropped 10 Spice-2000 bombs and 2 Popeye missiles at the targets. 6 M-2000s crossed the LoC and fired at standoff ranges. So there's no way there wasn't any effect. That defied common sense.



You poor delusional soul. I hope these fantasies that you Indians have concocted for yourselves help you recover from this traumatic time.

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## abrar khan

Sneaker said:


> It can conduct strikes at 100 points, I am fine as long as they are all outside India as happened today..


From inside or outside, today Pakistan fighter bombs and digs six holes in mother india and 2 jets down by a single pilot in a dog fight and one Pilot Abhi, S.No.27981 in our custody. A shameful day for Indians.

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## wulff

These two idiots have been trolling you all day and you are all replying to them. Quit being idiots. Dont feed the trolls.

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## D!nGa Ch!Ba

fitpOsitive said:


> I will say make it cheaper.


Naaahhh Thunder now has its own class, cash it. Malaysia are you seeing this Thunder is roaring.


----------



## wulff

The Eagle said:


> Lets be sure that this thread is cleared off any derailing.
> 
> Regards,



Please ban these two idiots randomradio and the other jackass called sneaker. Both of them have been trolling this thread and every other thread since morning.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

randomradio said:


> Whatchu talking about? There is no media at the place of the strikes.
> 
> The PA has cordoned off the area.


https://tribune.com.pk/story/1919080/1-no-blood-no-bodies-no-debris-no-tragedy/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466258/experts-question-indias-claim-of-destroying-militant-camp-near-loc

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## AsianLion

6 #*IAF* Officers, Civilian Killed In Chopper Crash In J&K's Budgam



Bossman said:


> This is their chopper


----------



## mshan44



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## Goku-kun

randomradio said:


> Whatchu talking about? There is no media at the place of the strikes.
> 
> The PA has cordoned off the area.


bro you are a senior member and I really dont expect such amateur statements from you..your patriotism is not letting you see the truth..350 people dead and how will we hide the bloodshed over that area..produce satellite images of your desired area..


----------



## Syed1.

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 542560


Spouse is also a pilot?


She should be assured that absolutely nothing will happen to her husband and he will be returned once hostilities die down.

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## Jinn Baba

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 542560



Picture after picture, proof after proof - everything backing up Pakistan's claim.

Whilst Indians cant provide a single shred of evidence to back up even a single one of their claims.


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## sathya

will be back tomorrow evening...


----------



## Oruc

randomradio said:


> The death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal it at this time.
> 
> We dropped 10 Spice-2000 bombs and 2 Popeye missiles at the targets. 6 M-2000s crossed the LoC and fired at standoff ranges. So there's no way there wasn't any effect. That defied common sense.


oh no man. there was certain effect. Hamid mir (TV Anchor) went there and found a dead crow. It looked almost like a terrorist.


----------



## My-Analogous

Jackdaws said:


> India rejects Pakistan's claim of Air Force jet being shot down, says all pilots accounted for: sources
> Lagta hai khudke hi planes uda diye.


Good for India. But we have captured one pilot.


----------



## pakistanitarzan

Syed1. said:


> Spouse is also a pilot?
> 
> 
> She should be assured that absolutely nothing will happen to her husband and he will be returned once hostilities die down.


Yes but not until everything calms down, until then he is war prisioner


----------



## ziaulislam

MystryMan said:


> Both downed jets were MIG-21 Bison? Indian members of the forum have become missing in action.


There is no comments on second jet
While they say "ground troops witness a Pakistani f16 falling in Azad Kashmir"
Only reason why u see comments on this is because pilot was in Pakistan

Initially people debunked it as ssying their pilot will never say i am Hindu ..well..he said that


----------



## IFB

sathya said:


> will be back tomorrow evening...



I have a feeling ...things gonna happen tonight or in a few days time...the way FS handled the press conference...not taking any questions...the presence of that air force guy next to him...silently sitting...i dont think he spoke even one word...why was he even there ? was that a message of some sort ? it did felt weird to me...something surely is cooking....thats what an aam aadhmi like me think.

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## KhalaiMakhlooq

looks like the pilot ejected, the plane went into self-destruct mode autopilot, heading for the nearest water source and dived.

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## blain2

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 542560


This man should be treated honorably. He did what he did for his country. As someone who has had a family member as a PoW (I really hope he does not become one..meaning we don't have a war!), I would want him to be treated well and professionally. All indications are that is the case.

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## SABRE

IceCold said:


> Now they have also downed our imaginary F-16 which never took part in the OP to begin with.



What they need to know, & we need to make sure that they know, is that we celebrate martyrdom. There is no shame in death for us when serving our nation. If an F-16 had been shot down the pilot's family would have been receiving masses at their home for fatiah. & if he lived his family will still be visited by a large number of people.

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## Cent4

atya said:


> Is this confirmed info? What's happening?



Confirmed information, not sure if the evacuation is a drill or intelligence based.


----------



## VCheng

blain2 said:


> This man should be treated honorably. He did what he did for his country. As someone who has had a family member as a PoW (I really hope he does not become one..meaning we don't have a war!), I would want him to be treated well and professionally. All indications are that is the case.



Further, his dignity should be respected here on PDF too.

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## Cent4

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Statement without proof? Who would believe that?



It’s not a military installation but related to PAF. Not asking you to believe it, it is what it is.


----------



## KhalaiMakhlooq

blain2 said:


> This man should be treated honorably. He did what he did for his country. As someone who has had a family member as a PoW (I really hope he does not become one..meaning we don't have a war!), I would want him to be treated well and professionally. All indications are that is the case.



lol

India bombs and massacres Kashmiris in the LoC day after day, night after night. Pakistani servicemen doen't pay with their lives, normal everyday Kashmiris do.

He should be executed, for murder.



KhalaiMakhlooq said:


> He should be executed, for murder.


 in public hang him


----------



## Imran Khan



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## mshan44

*
Bring it ON*


Bring it on


----------



## doorstar

JonAsad said:


> there is a contradiction - single jet remained inside or all?


none crossed over the LOC., everything was done from Azad Kashmir side

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## Foxtrot Delta

sathya said:


> will be back tomorrow evening...


For more? Please do.



mshan44 said:


> *Bring it ON*
> 
> 
> Bring it on
> View attachment 542564



Means war and mini nukes! On indian forces


----------



## randomradio

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> https://tribune.com.pk/story/1919080/1-no-blood-no-bodies-no-debris-no-tragedy/
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1466258/experts-question-indias-claim-of-destroying-militant-camp-near-loc



Dude, who are you kidding? You need to see the kind of effect a 1000Kg bomb makes first.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Further, his dignity should be respected here on PDF too.


I think he lost that when he broke international convention and entered our airspace ...I dont think he was unaware of what he was doing

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## DESERT FIGHTER

randomradio said:


> Dude, who are you kidding? You need to see the kind of effect a 1000Kg bomb makes first.


Tells your news channel the man on whose property indian jets unloaded their payload at!

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## Dubious

blain2 said:


> This man should be treated honorably. He did what he did for his country. As someone who has had a family member as a PoW (I really hope he does not become one..meaning we don't have a war!), I would want him to be treated well and professionally. All indications are that is the case.


Well, there is a video where he isnt in shackles (not even cuffs), nor beaten (though villagers whose house he could have dropped bomb on were not too happy) - Pak army protected him...and he is impressed with the treatment while sipping tea! I think that is considerably honorably as possible for breaking international laws and venturing purposefully into our air space for god knows what reasons!

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> I think he lost that when he broke international convention and entered our airspace ...I dont think he was unaware of what he was doing



No. He is an active member of a service arm doing his assigned duties in uniform, and as such entitled to his rights.

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## newb3e

randomradio said:


> The death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal it at this time.
> 
> We dropped 10 Spice-2000 bombs and 2 Popeye missiles at the targets. 6 M-2000s crossed the LoC and fired at standoff ranges. So there's no way there wasn't any effect. That defied common sense.


lols gj!

yabba dabba doo!


----------



## Maxpane

B C 2 din ka


D!nGa Ch!Ba said:


> I told you guys they shouldn't cross the 4KM as everything starts with 4 in the era of khan can end into a complete finish. Remember khan started with 4 constituencies


you were right


----------



## AsianLion

SABRE said:


> What they need to know, & we need to make sure that they know, is that we celebrate martyrdom. There is no shame in death for us when serving our nation. If an F-16 had been shot down the pilot's family would have been receiving masses at their home for fatiah. & if he lived his family will still be visited by a large number of people.




By now the F-16 crash site and pilot death and PAF & the nation would have known about it. It's a lie period.If its hidden it would have brought complete shame for PAF for hiding and not embracing a martyrdom of the fallen PAF pilot, and also devoid the rightful Pakistani nation to celebrate a shaheed.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> No. He is an active member of a service arm doing his assigned duties in uniform, and as such entitled to his rights.


and he was well aware what his "active duties" were and also well aware of his fate if captured...I doubt he thought he would be sipping tea and appreciating the hospitality!

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## IceCold

randomradio said:


> The death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal it at this time.
> 
> *We dropped 10 Spice-2000 bombs and 2 Popeye missiles at the targets. 6 M-2000s crossed the LoC and fired at standoff ranges. So there's no way there wasn't any effect*. That defied common sense.


Exactly! Had that much of an ordinance dropped, there was no way Pakistan could cover it up even if we want too. You basically contracted yourself when you one hand claim the death toll is so ridiculously high that Pakistan cannot reveal and than the highlighted part. The only common sense defied in this whole scenario was how the Indians accepted this narrative and are dancing over it when your government actually have nothing to show for it other than empty chest thumping.

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## mshan44

Situation of Indian Govt Now

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## Nefarious

Poor Migs...always the first to get it.


----------



## koolio

mshan44 said:


> *Bring it ON*
> 
> 
> Bring it on
> View attachment 542564



I did say it before, moti wont back down as the moti madman has been wounded, if he backs down now, his political career is finished, PAF and army must stay very vigilant, but if they carry out further incursions its time to go deeper and take further more indian territory.

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## SABRE

This is a score by Sq. No. 9, right?


----------



## bananarepublic

IAF mig confirmed





btw i know the guy from picture 
he is from GB

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## Sneaker

abrar khan said:


> Pilot Abhi, S.No.27981 (POW )



le, aagya idhar.. read the thread..


----------



## sohail.ishaque

CHACHA"G" said:


> It is very fine if we have only one … I don't mind if we only shoot down one jet...… But I will still speculate . Only 2 things can happen .
> 
> Change of strategy .. and Because IAF only accepted one Jet down so who cares
> Piolet is dead .. and Because IAF only accepted one Jet down so who cares


The 2nd jet fell in IOK an the video is out there. People gathering around and chanting slogans. And in the video a pilot can be seen roasted.

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## Srinivas

xyxmt said:


> you are supporter of terrorist Indian Army who shoots kids and woman and rapes, you did the crime and this is the payment you got



Yes I am !


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Sneaker said:


> We know. We didn't let you. We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.




Yes I am the queen of England. You rats have got Bollywood mentality . We got your pilot and your wreckage as proof. What you got? Some random BS. Lol

Ahole do u even understand what SOW is? 

Watch and learn, this is exactly what was used in strike package with JF17. The REKs.

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## My-Analogous

KRAIT said:


> No Su 30 shot down. No Mig-21 shot down. Only Mi-17 helicopter crashed.


Good. Now don't demand to return this pilot since it is not yours


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

randomradio said:


> Dude, who are you kidding? You need to see the kind of effect a 1000Kg bomb makes first.


It can make whatever effect it wants to in empty space, but you're simply refusing to accept on the ground reports from multiple sources and news outlets.


----------



## IFB

from what i see on social media...the support this indian pilot is getting especially after the chai video...from people...if he returns before election and congress makes him PM candidate against modi...modi will not even get deposit...here i am not joking...thats the kinda support this pilot is getting...come sir a rajya sabha seat waiting for you.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

Alpha BeeTee said:


> That's a clear a U turn.
> 
> Probably Pakistan offering India a face saver in exchange for descalation.



May be. They are also not talking about the Indian army loss because of the heavy firing that was taking place last night. So may be our Army wants them to have less pressure of "jawabdo" kind of chootiyas


----------



## Zibago

Hassan Guy said:


> if its real i'll penetrate a pile of snow raw and post it to pdf


Still waiting

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## maximuswarrior

Srinivas said:


> Yes I am !



He says he is. Nothing left to discuss here.

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## Path-Finder

I am convinced, internet was invented in vedic india.


----------



## AsianLion

The smartest thing done was exactly. Pakistan have no point to prove besides we can reach into India and hurt them. PAF has photographic evidence of the sites and how the targeting was changed from it to drop ordinance on open spaces right next to the targeted locations. They know what we did and we know what we did! That is what matters here.

Why would Pakistan want to incur casualties on India if India's bombing run did not inflict human or, material damage on our side?

De-escalation is right way, and PM Khan has again pushed India for talks.

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## randomradio

Goku-kun said:


> bro you are a senior member and I really dont expect such amateur statements from you..your patriotism is not letting you see the truth..350 people dead and how will we hide the bloodshed over that area..produce satellite images of your desired area..



That's why the area has been cordoned off.

Look at the size of a 1000Kg bomb crater first.

One would expect pics of these craters.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Mirages and JF17s were used in strike packages. 

Mirages released the H series SOWs hitting targets 100km away.

The JFs on the other hand fired the REKs.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Please do not post, or respond to, any 'IAF shot down F-16/PAF Jet' comments. Mods will keep deleting them until more evidence is available to support said claims.



randomradio said:


> That's why the area has been cordoned off.


Then how are there multiple news organizations reporting from the ground?

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## randomradio

bananarepublic said:


> IAF mig confirmed
> View attachment 542568
> 
> 
> btw i know the guy from picture
> he is from GB



The scale of the aircraft to person itself is plenty to tell you that.






One can quite literally lie down on the MKI's sides.


----------



## indian my friend

Somebody is telling a lie either mig29 or f16 has crashed anyone have any proofs to claim because no wreckage is found i am suspicious that iaf is telling a lie by counting the dead pilots in chopper crash and hiding the truth.

I dont know what india will do now that wing commander has tied our hands and ball is in our court maybe we can shot some of their jet near loc and then stop this fight because this is no good.


----------



## Sneaker

Initial ISPR claim of 3 downed pilots may be accurate!! one mig and another double seater jets downed according to news reports..


----------



## A.M.

Can we take a step back and realize how crazy this is?

We told India that we were going to surprise them less than a day ago. We told them that they were going to look foolish.

And they still fell into the trap. Even with everyone on high alert.

We didn't want days to strike...it happened less than a day later. And we have their pilot in custody. Huge morale boost for the country and the opposite for India.

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## sohail.ishaque

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> It needs to stop. Neither side will back down if this continues and that will lead to full fledged war. Time for Modi to tone down his war mongering and take up Imran Khan's (umpteenth) offer for resolving issues through talks.


It won't stop. Modi did all this drama to win the elections and now with the outcome so far, he surely is gonna loose. So if he don't do anything that can make their country proud, then its good bye from the elections and BJP won't let that happen.

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## indian my friend

Sneaker said:


> Initial ISPR claim of 3 downed pilots may be accurate!! one mig and another double seater jets downed according to news reports..


Indian media? 
On which network?


----------



## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100805911092871168

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## Imran Khan



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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100805911092871168

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## Sneaker

indian my friend said:


> Indian media?
> On which network?


Saw on TV, multiple channels. But there is a twist and if I say here, comment will be deleted.


----------



## Reichsmarschall

KRAIT said:


> No bombs dropped.


you still stand by your statement?


----------



## IFB

Sneaker said:


> Saw on TV, multiple channels. But there is a twist and if I say here, comment will be deleted.



sir i am civilian so asking this...does mki record all the confrontation...like if it attacks a target in air and ground...the footage is recorded by the MKI ?


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Path-Finder said:


> I am convinced, internet was invented in vedic india.




It was, some 5,000-10,000 years ago. The indians were using it then. Here us the evidence:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/india-ancient-internet/558725/

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## Path-Finder

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> It was, some 5,000-10,000 years ago. The indians were using it then. Here us the evidence:
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/india-ancient-internet/558725/


they have mastered the art of using it again, as you can see them acting like mini chanakya kotalia's

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## POPEYE-Sailor

*For those indian's kid still who is thinnking that pak shoot down only one aircraft here is a most reliable source :*
shotdown two indian jets
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...07b06d0257b_story.html?utm_term=.1a2e653971a8

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## indian my friend

Sneaker said:


> Saw on TV, multiple channels. But there is a twist and if I say here, comment will be deleted.


But that would be a win for pak so why afraid tell me the truth because this is a tight slap on face of our airforce if true.
Any creditable source?


----------



## bananarepublic

Sneaker said:


> Saw on TV, multiple channels. But there is a twist and if I say here, comment will be deleted.




just tell the news 
nothing to fear


----------



## mshan44




----------



## indian my friend

They do have a pic with double engine jet.
God save iaf if true.


----------



## iPhone

VCheng said:


> Further, his dignity should be respected here on PDF too.


But not his mustache.


----------



## AsianLion

From Indian media!


----------



## mshan44



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## iPhone

There’s a saying in Christianity that what the devil meant in bad, god turned into good.

This entire foolish and chest thumping Indian exercise has been refused to just hot air. And the JF-17 every country is gonna take notice of that machine. This turned into a great JF-17 sales pitch. Love it.

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## CriticalThinker02

Imran Khan said:


>



lol epic man


----------



## Sneaker

bananarepublic said:


> just tell the news
> nothing to fear


it already got deleted once..


----------



## Imran Khan



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## Sneaker

IFB said:


> sir i am civilian so asking this...does mki record all the confrontation...like if it attacks a target in air and ground...the footage is recorded by the MKI ?


me too civilian buddy....



indian my friend said:


> But that would be a win for pak so why afraid tell me the truth because this is a tight slap on face of our airforce if true.
> Any creditable source?


it is not win for PAF... infact, it makes them look bad..


----------



## Meengla

AsianUnion said:


> The smartest thing done was exactly. Pakistan have no point to prove besides we can reach into India and hurt them. PAF has photographic evidence of the sites and how the targeting was changed from it to drop ordinance on open spaces right next to the targeted locations. They know what we did and we know what we did! That is what matters here.
> 
> *Why would Pakistan want to incur casualties on India if India's bombing run did not inflict human or, material damage on our side?*
> 
> De-escalation is right way, and PM Khan has again pushed India for talks.



Yes. Good post.
From the Moeed Pirzada show of yesterday--and I know I keep bringing it up--it was evident that, while Pakistani planners had realized that there was no loss of life, even property in Pakistan--except for the poor trees--Pakistan HAD to do something. So Pakistan decided to hit from the Pakistani Kashmir into India but target nothing too important. That was planned. A face-saving both sides. But... looks like Indian ego was too big and they decided to venture into Pakistan. Thus began the un-wanted escalation. 
As I quoted Ikram Sehgal--a Pakistani defense analyst yesterday--Pakistan will respond. But the question is whether India will stomach that response. I think India should have absorbed a symbolic hit. Maybe both countries would show some old footage of destroyed buildings and aircrafts and be done with it. Not hard to do so. I think the back-channel work, especially by Americans, was to find some mutual face-saving way out.
But... Indians proved damned fools in this case. They fell into the trap today where Pakistan refused to fall into yesterday.

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## I S I

Reichsmarschall said:


> dont tell me this video is your credible source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Areesh @I S I @Windjammer @Mentee @Tps43 seems like indian "Axpaarts" are taking bollywood very seriously
> any idea if b-wood movies are part of their curriculum in defense academies


I just got an eye cancer.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

Offtopic[apologies]
Just came to know that India have got their azz beaten badly by the Aussies in the T20 match also. 1 more hour remaining in this black day for India

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## AsifIjaz

Inshallah... This is how it should be and inshallah we will treat this son of indian soil like the way we treat sons of our soil.


gambit said:


> No, Pakistan will do no such things.
> 
> Pakistan will treat these pilots as legal prisoners of war (POW), even if no official declaration of war exists. These pilots will receive medical treatment and will be quartered according to their ranks. Their return to India maybe negotiated but in the meantime, Pakistan will do the honorable thing and respect these men for what they are -- fellow men-at-arms.


----------



## Side-Winder

Eye witness account of how IAF pilot got captured.

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## Solomon2

blain2 said:


> This man should be treated honorably. He did what he did for his country. As someone who has had a family member as a PoW (I really hope he does not become one..meaning we don't have a war!), I would want him to be treated well and professionally. All indications are that is the case.


Yep. And that is a point in Pakistan's favor. 

Any interviews broadcast of the crowd who tried to beat him up?


----------



## AsianLion

Look Look Indian Media and BJP Modi Government - what have you done so wrong with India!

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## sohail.ishaque

Meengla said:


> Yes. Good post.
> From the Moeed Pirzada show of yesterday--and I know I keep bringing it up--it was evident that, while Pakistani planners had realized that there was no loss of life, even property in Pakistan--except for the poor trees--Pakistan HAD to do something. So Pakistan decided to hit from the Pakistani Kashmir into India but target nothing too important. That was planned. A face-saving both sides. But... looks like Indian ego was too big and they decided to venture into Pakistan. Thus began the un-wanted escalation.
> As I quoted Ikram Sehgal--a Pakistani defense analyst yesterday--Pakistan will respond. But the question is whether India will stomach that response. I think India should have absorbed a symbolic hit. Maybe both countries would show some old footage of destroyed buildings and aircrafts and be done with it. Not hard to do so. I think the back-channel work, especially by Americans, was to find some mutual face-saving way out.
> But... Indians proved damned fools in this case. They fell into the trap today where Pakistan refused to fall into yesterday.



The bad thing about a war is that it can't be planned.


----------



## iPhone

Meengla said:


> I will never forget the words of the Pak Army Spokesman Maj. Ghafoor from his press conference yesterday: "In Urdu language, there's saying that a wise enemy is better than a foolish friend. But our enemy India has turned out to be a foolish enemy".
> 
> He was alluding to the tall Indian (official!!) claim of the strike against Pakistan where '350 terrorists' were killed in some 'buildings'.
> 
> Of course it would be impossible for Pak Army to hide that kind of damage inside Pakistan in such a populated region like Mansehra: The dead bodies/funerals, the injured to the hospitals, the bomb parts, the destroyed buildings... all those are just not possible to hide when only a couple of men with cell phones can document them and it would go 'viral'.
> 
> Fools Indians!!! Should have just narrated some face-saving but believable story about their strikes. Damn fools!!!
> 
> PS. So my American wife, alarmed and asked me after work/5 pm yesterday, is it true that India has attacked 'terrorists' inside Pakistan? I said: What else you expect the Indians to say? Since 9/11 any country can attack anyone on the pretext of attacking 'terrorists'.


You must feel very proud telling her today that we downed two Indian war planes and captured their pilots.

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## AsianLion

Side-Winder said:


> Eye witness account of how IAF pilot got captured.




Great play by this Pakistani man, the local Pakistanis awam captured the Indian Pilot and handed over to Pak Army, telling the stupid fool Indian he is in India!

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## VCheng

Meengla said:


> PS. So my American wife, alarmed and asked me after work/5 pm yesterday, is it true that India has attacked 'terrorists' inside Pakistan? I said: What else you expect the Indians to say? Since 9/11 any country can attack anyone on the pretext of attacking 'terrorists'.



Did you read Pompeo's statement?


----------



## sohail.ishaque

This is what is goingon on twitter,

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## Meengla

iPhone said:


> You must feel very proud telling her today that we downed two Indian war planes and captured their pilots.



[Offtopic]

She's concerned about a war. Has been since 2002 since India amassed its troops against Pakistan and she looked at the map and said, oh, Pakistan is so small in comparison!

For today... Well... I won't tell my real feelings to her. Haha!

PS. She dislikes Indians because she thinks 'they stink' and that 'Indian doctors are arrogant'. She works in a medical office.

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## indian my friend

sohail.ishaque said:


> Offtopic[apologies]
> Just came to know that India have got their azz beaten badly by the Aussies in the T20 match also. 1 more hour remaining in this black day for India


Bunch of morons always overestimate themselves. But we will win world cup.


----------



## iPhone

Meengla said:


> [Offtopic]
> 
> She's concerned about a war. Has been since 2002 since India amassed its troops against Pakistan and she looked at the map and said, oh, Pakistan is so small in comparison!
> 
> For today... Well... I won't tell my real feelings to her. Haha!
> 
> 
> PS. She dislikes Indians because she thinks 'they stink' and that 'Indian doctors are arrogant'. She works in a medical office.



Haha gotcha, I can’t wait to go to work with my head held high.

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## Meengla

VCheng said:


> Did you read Pompeo's statement?



I saw a one-liner: Pakistan must do more. Anything special?


----------



## VCheng

Meengla said:


> I saw a one-liner: Pakistan must do more. Anything special?



There is more to it than that. May I suggest you read it in full.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

This picture might make them a target
Bcz Indian RAW has assests in Pakistan and might assassinate these PAF guys just for chest thumping.
Just a fear of mine.


Champion_Usmani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682422109253632
> Guys we arrested 3 pilots. where are other two? any update?


----------



## valkyr_96

Side-Winder said:


> Eye witness account of how IAF pilot got captured.





Solomon2 said:


> Yep. And that is a point in Pakistan's favor.
> 
> Any interviews broadcast of the crowd who tried to beat him up?


 It seems that there are two pilots but we will tow the party line so 1 captured also he fired at the civilians so that explains the beating. For Solomon the video is above you post.

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## mshan44

Admins and moderators should disable everyone from starting new threads for time being and merge all war threads to one. Everyone is creating new thread every other minute and its hard to track all threads and if its just one thread its easy to navigate around and get knowledge and info from it than browsing 300 threads..
please disable new thread create option for few days for everyone

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## SABRE

mshan44 said:


> Admins and moderators should disable everyone from starting new threads for time being and merge all war threads to one. Everyone is creating new thread every other minute and its hard to track all threads and if its just one thread its easy to navigate around and get knowledge and info from it than browsing 300 threads..
> please disable new thread create option for few days for everyone



Exactly, I have stated on several threads there should only be a single thread on this issue but it goes on unabated. It's getting cluttered & confusing.

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## Sine Nomine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100811717968302083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100815038288400385
@Joe Shearer

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## AsifIjaz

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Allah hu Akbar. Congratulations to CAS, Imran Khan, and all of the Pakistani Nation. PAF 9 Sqn successfully interdicted "top of the line" aircraft of the IAF, only to completely ruin their morale, tactics, and superior AEW, BVR, AESA, and Datalink capability for a long time. Tu Shaheen Hay....Tu Shaheen Hay... Bravo my boys. This is the PAF I flew in, and this is the PAF we raised.



Sir, Many thanks for the message. I hope you ahve read sir Kaiser Tufails msg too. For a noob like me, can you please elaborate or throw some light on it.


----------



## SABRE

No wonder RAF entered into a twinning agreement with Sq. 9. By the grace of Allah SWT these guys are mean men flying mean machines.

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## BATMAN

Sneaker said:


> 3, there are not 3 only 1. Other is your own pilot. You guys will bury the story of the 2nd pilot in coming days..



Yes now it's clear.... 1 captured, 1 toasted, 1 broke his back and is in Indian hospital.

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## mshan44

Lots of military transport activity going on at Rajkot Airfield in Gujrat

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## mshan44

If nothing else the closure of Pakistani airspace has shown how dependent Afghanistan and South Asia is on Pakistani Airspace.

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## Cookie Monster

randomradio said:


> Look at that. As a more aggressive force, it's expected that the IAF fighter jet debris will fall on your side. Similarly, you can expect your F-16 to have fallen on your side as well.


So I ask u for proof and u come up with more BS and tall claims?

Wtf does aggressive airforce even mean? What's ur metric of measuring that? Why would F16 debris fall on our side...as per ur own media's claim the F16 had intruded into Indian airspace. So u r gonna selectively believe their claims of shooting down an F16 but not the claims of F16 intruding? Not to mention that u r choosing to believe them without any proof whatsoever.


randomradio said:


> Ask your DG ISPR to deny Indian claims of the F-16 then.
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...uri-sector-officials/articleshow/68182444.cms
> 
> It will at least be a start, instead of asking us for sensitive proof.


Do u hear urself? How stupid can ur arguments get? U r making the claims so the burden of proof is on u. In absence of proof ur claims are utter BS.

I like how anytime u guys fail to provide proof and ur lies start falling apart, u quickly run to the excuse of "sensitive info that can't be released".

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## BATMAN

Sneaker said:


> F16D reportedly fell on your side as well..



All F-16D are healthy.

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## Sneaker

BATMAN said:


> All F-16D are healthy.



but one of them is in "terrific" health.


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## AsifIjaz

AsianUnion said:


> *Shooting Indian Figther Jets: The Story of Pakistan Airforce Retaliation: Real Surgical Strike on India*
> *
> Date : 27/Feb/2019*
> 
> *Pakistan Airforce Force jets Intruded into Indian air space and locked on to 6 Indian army buildings but missed the target and let the bombs drop near the targets. This was done as planned.
> 
> As India jets took off and came close , all but one PAF jet came back to Pakistani air space.
> 
> The single jet remained inside India and lured Indian jets closer.
> 
> As Indian jets came close the last remaining Pakistani jet also crossed into Pakistani territory, gained altitude and speed and sped off.
> 
> On Pakistani side a few Thunders were waiting as planned and as soon as Indian jets crossed into Pakistan, they were shot and destroyed.
> 
> At least one fell inside Pakistani territory and another fell inside Indian occupied Kashmir.
> 
> Every move was meticulously planned. All this planning within a few hours of the so called Indian Surgical strike.
> 
> They destroyed our trees in 4 locations. We did the same in 6 of theirs.
> 
> We did even better and shot down their jets and at least one Indian pilot is now in Pakistani custody. In all India lost two advanced Fighter jets and Three pilots.
> 
> This is called real "Surgical Strike" with the precision of a surgeon. The revenge is taken sweetly.
> 
> Remember wars are won and lost by a "Nation" not just the army..PAF did what the Pakistan nation wanted it to do.
> 
> As long as we are together in this we will prevail InshaAllah.
> 
> Who was the Pilot who lured Indian Pilots into Pakistan? He is the real braveheart hero!!!
> 
> What a victory: PAF did what Pakistani Awam wanted it to do: Pakistan Zindabad - Revenge is Sweet
> 
> We should be humble with our victories - what Allah(swt) has given us, and thank him for his blessings and pain!
> *


If this is true then along with SQ Leader Hassan the brave son of soil who was tasked or who volunteered to stay back alone and lure the chicken to roast should also be brought under lime light. Forget money, plots, praise, promotion etc.... Nothing motivates the men in uniform more than the nation recognizing the fact that they are safe and that they sleep soundly bcoz of them. 
May Allah swt keep our boys safe and sound.

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## YeBeWarned

Sneaker said:


> F16D reportedly fell on your side as well..



No F-16 took part in Attack, If there will be a downed F-16 it will come up eventually , Serial numbers of each plane can trace them .

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100836117056753664

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## Avicenna

Sneaker said:


> but one of them is in "terrific" health.



You Indians are so full of it.


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100837432784834561

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## Sine Nomine

Sneaker said:


> but one of them is in "terrific" health.


Don't worry there are few of them and it won't remain hidden.


----------



## Joe Shearer

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100811717968302083
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100815038288400385
> @Joe Shearer



Yes, the Indian media are stupid.

And yes, our present administration is in competition with the media for the stupidity prize.

Now: I know that many Pakistanis are extremely straightforward people and need to have things explained to them in very straightforward language; preferably in language that is composed of words of two syllables or less.

HOWEVER, I had never suspected that YOU, of all people, were one of them. I am quite taken aback, but naturally, will support your efforts at comprehending events like these to the best of my ability and with all my goodwill. Intellectually speaking, I have your back.

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## randomradio

Cookie Monster said:


> So I ask u for proof and u come up with more BS and tall claims?
> 
> Wtf does aggressive airforce even mean? What's ur metric of measuring that? Why would F16 debris fall on our side...as per ur own media's claim the F16 had intruded into Indian airspace. So u r gonna selectively believe their claims of shooting down an F16 but not the claims of F16 intruding? Not to mention that u r choosing to believe them without any proof whatsoever.
> 
> Do u hear urself? How stupid can ur arguments get? U r making the claims so the burden of proof is on u. In absence of proof ur claims are utter BS.
> 
> I like how anytime u guys fail to provide proof and ur lies start falling apart, u quickly run to the excuse of "sensitive info that can't be released".



A denial always follows a claim when it's a sensitive matter.

We claimed to shoot down an F-16. You are yet to deny it.

So cheers.


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100835107563335681

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## SrNair

Indus Pakistan said:


> Two Indian Aircraft have been shot down by PAF and Pakistan has taken it's revenge plus interest on Ganga India. I want to use this thread to show support to PAF and Pakistan Armed Forces. time for all Pakistani;s to stand united. It was really pleasing to see Sherry Rehman of PPP and Kwaja Asif of PML-N showing solidarity. Modi's Ganga has been slapped right in his ugly mutt. And this should sober up his billion plus army of aboriginal Dalits from the Ganga jungles.
> 
> Yeh that is a Gangoo flag ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan-India: Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' over Kashmir*
> 
> Pakistan says it has shot down two Indian Air Force jets in a major escalation of the Kashmir conflict.
> 
> A spokesman said one plane had fallen in Pakistani territory and two pilots had been captured. Pakistan also denied reports one of its jets was shot down.
> 
> India has confirmed the loss of an MiG21 fighter and said a pilot was missing. It said it was investigating reports of his capture.
> 
> Both India and Pakistan claim all of Kashmir, but control only parts of it.
> 
> The nuclear powers have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947. All but one were over Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47383634
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Captured Indian pilot.



Lol 
How many times they will change their words ?
Pak General changed it again now hevis saying only one pilot .

Actually it was two jets and two pilots .
But one pilot was Pakistani and their jet was F 16 .
Due to over enthusiasm he said two.

Any way we knows there will be a face saving measure from PAF .Because the yesterday insult was that much .

During aerial fighting .PoW is possible .
And fighter was Mig 21 bison.
Wing Commander Vardhaman did an excellent job .Shot F 16 and chased in to their territory .Salute to that courage .
We will take necessary measure to bring him back.
But it seems our fight against terrorism will continue .
India will strike again if there is any further terrorist attempt



Cash GK said:


> man he is soldier he was fighting for his nation like every other soldier. we are pakistanis and known for good behavior in war. please safe this guy and let the talk began..



That soldiers is creating a bad impression.
Only a thin border between India and Pakistan .And each one can decide the host treatment through the their own action



rott said:


> PAF used JF-17 and IAF used Mig 21 bison and Su 30 mki.



No Sukhoi.
If there was a Su then there wont be any engagrment only shooting .
Su wont use for CAP


----------



## mshan44

mandrom said:


> we killed 300+ terrorists on pakistani land itself. That is an achievement itself. BBC stated that bombardment area in Balakot has been cordoned off by military and that local hospital have added 60 beds for emergency purpose.



where is proof lol ?


----------



## Icewolf

mandrom said:


> we killed 300+ terrorists on pakistani land itself. That is an achievement itself. BBC stated that bombardment area in Balakot has been cordoned off by military and that local hospital have added 60 beds for emergency purpose.



Yeah ok buddy. If you killed 300 people you think Pakistan would just shoot down a couple of jets? No there would be a full on war. Dumbass Indians

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> They would.
> 
> They just proved that they are the same quality of scum who mobbed people on our side of the border because they happened to be of a different religion, ate differently and prayed differently.
> 
> Glad to see that your scum are the same.



Let me get it straight, did you just compare those locals who threw few punches to an enemy who shells their houses day and night with those who lynch people openly for their dietary habits?

Wow, just wow!

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## b4umsf




----------



## The Sandman

mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100835107563335681


Ya Allah kher...  this isn't good


----------



## Goku-kun

randomradio said:


> A denial always follows a claim when it's a sensitive matter.
> 
> We claimed to shoot down an F-16. You are yet to deny it.
> 
> So cheers.


we have already denied it..what other language should we use for you?
patriotism isn't letting you open your eyes..

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## Serious Carrey

Srinivas said:


> Just wait for it, this is not over !


Yesterday he looked depressed and today he is hyperventilating. Let him enjoy his moment of glory.



SrNair said:


> Lol
> How many times they will change their words ?
> Pak General changed it again now hevis saying only one pilot .
> 
> Actually it was two jets and two pilots .
> But one pilot was Pakistani and their jet was F 16 .
> Due to over enthusiasm he said two.
> 
> Any way we knows there will be a face saving measure from PAF .Because the yesterday insult was that much .
> 
> During aerial fighting .PoW is possible .
> And fighter was Mig 21 bison.
> Wing Commander Vardhaman did an excellent job .Shot F 16 and chased in to their territory .Salute to that courage .
> We will take necessary measure to bring him back.
> But it seems our fight against terrorism will continue .
> India will strike again if there is any further terrorist attempt
> 
> 
> 
> That soldiers is creating a bad impression.
> Only a thin border between India and Pakistan .And each one can decide the host treatment through the their own action
> 
> 
> 
> No Sukhoi.
> If there was a Su then there wont be any engagrment only shooting .
> Su wont use for CAP



Any news favoring India is fake and any news favoring Pakistan is a fact


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## coffee_cup

b4umsf said:


>


Not a correct video, this is from some earlier crash this month.


----------



## Sine Nomine

Joe Shearer said:


> Now: I know that many Pakistanis are extremely straightforward people and need to have things explained to them in very straightforward language; preferably in language that is composed of words of two syllables or less.
> 
> HOWEVER, I had never suspected that YOU, of all people, were one of them. I am quite taken aback, but naturally, will support your efforts at comprehending events like these to the best of my ability and with all


There are many peoples in this world who have got problem for every solution.
Our peoples are still not ready for internet and a cell phone with camera.
On topic,Joe Modi did left no room for maneuverability for whole of our Government instrument,millions of Indians were abusing Pakistan 24/7 and another lot cursing it for lack of response from our side.
Modi is leaving no stone unturned in road to destruction.
It would have been much better if this all would have stayed like chest thumping at wagha.

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## randomradio

Goku-kun said:


> we have already denied it..what other language should we use for you?
> patriotism isn't letting you open your eyes..



Nothing's been denied.

The entire operation consisted of F-16s in the first place.


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## mandrom

mshan44 said:


> where is proof lol ?







From BBC hindi

Considering that KPK govt ordered extra 60 beds in hospital and military has cordoned off the bombarded area lol. Are they arranging the beds for the injured 'tree jihadis' lol.


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## SABRE

mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100836117056753664



This is old from Champions Trophy.


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## ice_man

randomradio said:


> A denial always follows a claim when it's a sensitive matter.
> 
> We claimed to shoot down an F-16. You are yet to deny it.
> 
> So cheers.



deny what our ISPR said in the morning press briefing no F16 took part in any attack. please wake up now its almost 16 hours

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## mandrom

Icewolf said:


> Yeah ok buddy. If you killed 300 people you think Pakistan would just shoot down a couple of jets? No there would be a full on war. Dumbass Indians



Already its a full on war in Kashmir. But I am satisfied . 300 jihadis killed on pakistani land.


----------



## mandrom

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> There are many peoples in this world who have got problem for every solution.
> Our peoples are still not ready for internet and a cell phone with camera.
> On topic,Joe Modi did left no room for maneuverability for whole of our Government instrument,millions of Indians were abusing Pakistan 24/7 and another lot cursing it for lack of response from our side.
> Modi is leaving no stone unturned in road to destruction.
> It would have been much better if this all would have stayed like chest thumping at wagha.



Then control the jihadis . I think the next step of Modi will be removal of 370 article and 35 A. Dilute sunni kashmir the same way chinese dilute uighur land.

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## Areesh

randomradio said:


> We claimed to shoot down an F-16. You are yet to deny it
> 
> .



I think you might have missed it in your delusions but pakistan has categorically denied that you shot down f16

Check dg ISPR press briefing for 27 Feb 2019 for further details

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## Rusty

Muhammad Omar said:


> Arrested Indian pilot
> 
> View attachment 542320


we need to show Indians the legendary humanity of Pakistan and strickly adhear to the Geneva Convention.


mandrom said:


> Already its a full on war in Kashmir. But I am satisfied . 300 jihadis killed on pakistani land.



Not a single independent news agency has confirmed it .But what ever helps you sleep at night.


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## Rahil khan

mandrom said:


> Already its a full on war in Kashmir. But I am satisfied . 300 jihadis killed on pakistani land.


Your satisfaction is enough for every one here. But just do share this satisfaction level to your indian Military authorities...because they need more than you right now. !


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## ice_man

mandrom said:


> From BBC hindi
> 
> Considering that KPK govt ordered extra 60 beds in hospital and military has cordoned off the bombarded area lol. Are they arranging the beds for the injured 'tree jihadis' lol.



precaution getting everything ready in case you guys plan to attack again


NDTV reported all doctor leaves in amritsar and pathankot government hospitals cancelled so did we destroy alot of indian posts and kill many indians today that you cancelled doctor leaves and put all hospital on high alert in those to punjab areas?

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## Ali Tariq

Areesh said:


> I thinking you might have missed it in your delusions but Pakistan has categorically denied that you shot down f16
> 
> Check dg ISPR press briefing for 27 Feb 2019 for further drtails


Bhai, subah se koi 50 dafa k kareeb is idiot ko bataya gaya hai DS ISPR ki statement k baare mein, but I think he is not in his senses. He is not accepting anything.

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## ice_man

mandrom said:


> we killed 300+ terrorists on pakistani land itself. That is an achievement itself. BBC stated that bombardment area in Balakot has been cordoned off by military and that local hospital have added 60 beds for emergency purpose.



we dropped your planes caught your pilot. at least you show a video of 50 dead leave the extra 250 you adding on. 

we took international media to site today and they saw for themselves. no bodies nothing. just trees destroyed.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Again, as far as Kashmir is concerned, I am intrigued at your mention of suicide bombers. When was the last time they saw one or heard of one, in Azad Kashmir? *I thought that was a commodity strictly intended for export.*



Proudly introduced by none other than India in the region in late 70s or early 80s. Which later consumed her own PM.

You failed to mention that, Joe.


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## Areesh

Ali Tariq said:


> Bhai, subah se koi 50 dafa k kareeb is idiot ko bataya gaya hai DS ISPR ki statement k baare mein, but I think he is not in his senses. He is not accepting anything.



Well he is an Indian and they have a guy like modi as their pm

Khud hi samajh jao in ki halat

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Intruding into the Pak airspace and surviving there aren't easy tasks, especially if you aren't from the _Ehl-i Iman.._.

These folks insert _Sheyatin _into their warriors to make them dare devils!!!! But, the Muslim airspace is filled with Azan and the recitations of the _Kuran-i Kerim_, especially of the kids in _Mekteps_, which burn down the _Sheyatin _residing inside these folks and create a terrible mental trauma!!!! And, the rest is obvious....

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## Oublious

woooowwww just in 1 day 185 pages....

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## Irfan Baloch

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Here is the second Mig which killed its pilots;
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india...rashes-in-kashmir-s-budgam-1466030-2019-02-27
> 
> Helicopter is a separate news.
> 
> @Imran Khan @Areesh. @Windjammer @Irfan Baloch @Oscar.


paid with their lives for Modi war mongering

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## mandrom

ice_man said:


> we dropped your planes caught your pilot. at least you show a video of 50 dead leave the extra 250 you adding on.
> 
> we took international media to site today and they saw for themselves. no bodies nothing. just trees destroyed.



More like military sanitised the area and then took pakistani media for public consumption. 300 tree jihadis lol.


----------



## Muhammad Omar

Rusty said:


> we need to show Indians the legendary humanity of Pakistan and strickly adhear to the Geneva Convention.
> 
> 
> Not a single independent news agency has confirmed it .But what ever helps you sleep at night.



After the things calms on both side then. Shouldn't hurry

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## MultaniGuy

Oublious said:


> woooowwww just in 1 day 185 pages....


the downing of the Indian planes is basically war. i hope for peace though.

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## b4umsf

coffee_cup said:


> Not a correct video, this is from some earlier crash this month.


Watch again..


----------



## Ali Tariq

Areesh said:


> Well he is an Indian and they have a guy like modi as their pm
> 
> Khud hi samajh jao in ki halat


But still bhai, it sometimes irritate me. They are gone full nuts, but good news is that some Indians are coming to their senses after recent REPLY by PAF.

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## Cookie Monster

randomradio said:


> A denial always follows a claim when it's a sensitive matter.
> 
> We claimed to shoot down an F-16. You are yet to deny it.
> 
> So cheers.


Denial is not a requirement. Pak provided proof of ur shot down jet and ur captured pilot without first waiting for India to deny it.

In a normal world...by professional credible ppl(or institutions) claims are made and then backed up by proof. It's always a different case with India. U guys aren't normal...ur media always making outlandish claims with zero proof and the gullible masses just eat it up. I understand now why it's so hard for u to comprehend something as simple as the concept of proof/evidence...it's bcuz u were raised on this type of jingoistic unsubstantiated claims by ur media on a daily basis...it's the norm for u.

For the rest of us...we operate differently. So I will wait for pics of F16 wreckage before I believe India's BS claims.

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## Joe Shearer

mandrom said:


> Then control the jihadis . I think the next step of Modi will be removal of 370 article and 35 A. Dilute sunni kashmir the same way chinese dilute uighur land.



Only a totally ignorant moron would overlook the fact that removal of Art. 370 is legally and constitutionally impossible.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

randomradio said:


> Nothing's been denied.
> 
> The entire operation consisted of F-16s in the first place.


Yes, I'm sure you planned and carried out the operation.

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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Proudly introduced by none other than India in the region in late 70s or early 80s. Which later consumed her own PM.
> 
> You failed to mention that, Joe.



I don't specialise in fiction. Check your facts.


----------



## mandrom

ice_man said:


> precaution getting everything ready in case you guys plan to attack again
> 
> 
> NDTV reported all doctor leaves in amritsar and pathankot government hospitals cancelled so did we destroy alot of indian posts and kill many indians today that you cancelled doctor leaves and put all hospital on high alert in those to punjab areas?



Many of the experienced are being transferred to Kashmir for emergency field surgeries. A lot of indians and pakistanis killed in the shelling. 50 Indians and 35 pakistanis killed and several injured. Spoke to doctor from MAX Saket who has been called to kashmir,this time private sector is also standing with the army and contributing to their effort. But still I am satisfied as modi taught the mullahs of pakistan that he can do a Carnage in their jihadi camps there also not just Godhra.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

SrNair said:


> .Shot F 16


Are you drunk? We have multiple proof we shot down IAF jets.


Pilot
wreckage
What's your proof? Modi's fart's. Sorry but India got fcuked. Hard. This time and I have followed international media. That is the theme.

This is our proof?







IAF fighter jet crashes in Central Kashmir Budgam, 2 pilots feared dead. We dispatched these two first class to get a wash in Ganga.








This is one was captured by us. And is now learning how to use toilets for the first time in his life.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> I don't specialise in fiction. Check your facts.



Of course you dont.
Indian financing, arming, training for LTTE, Mukti Bahini, BLA or TTP is a fiction. Right.

What else is a fiction? Please tell us, so that we could make some suggestions for the school curriculum in India.

PS: You just showed how dishonest can be even those people, who pride or pitch themselves of being neutral, when it comes to admitting their own sins.

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## mandrom

Joe Shearer said:


> Only a totally ignorant moron would overlook the fact that removal of Art. 370 is legally and constitutionally impossible.



I don't care. Constitution can be changed and so can the laws.


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## Sine Nomine

mandrom said:


> Then control the jihadis . I think the next step of Modi will be removal of 370 article and 35 A. Dilute sunni kashmir the same way chinese dilute uighur land.


You rape their women,kill,arrest and harass them and on top of it use pellets guns on them to blind them,what do you expect.The person who carried out Pulwama bombing was born and grew up under your nose,even was arrested by your forces after an encounter and God knows how he came out of jail and did all this.Now,tell me how Pakistan comes into picture?

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## khanz

AUz said:


> Mig 21 shot down.
> 
> IAF wing commander dead (assassinated by ISI)
> 
> PAF enters India around same time as Mig-21 “crashed”
> 
> C’mon, we all know what’s happening.
> 
> As usual, inferior Hindus are getting shafted by militarily superior and far more accomplished Muslim forces (as has happened throughout history )



Stop it Hindus are part of Pakistan too.The 4th largest Hindu population is living in Pak having overtaken Indonesia recently no need to disrespect one our own minorities.

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## mandrom

coffee_cup said:


> Of course you dont.
> Indian financing, arming, training for LTTE, Mukti Bahini, BLA or TTP is a fiction. Right.
> 
> What else is a fiction? Please tell us, so that we could make some suggestions for the school curriculum in India.
> 
> PS: You just showed how dishonest can be even those people, who pride themselves of being neutral, when it comes to admitting their own sins.



LTTE and TTP are a shame . I never agreed with Doval's psychopathic methods of avenging terror with terror.But I am proud of Modis frontal attack method .For every terror attack hit hard with surgical precision .Such precision that 300 jihadis got killed.


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## ice_man

mandrom said:


> Many of the experienced are being transferred to Kashmir for emergency field surgeries. A lot of indians and pakistanis killed in the shelling. 50 Indians and 35 pakistanis killed and several injured. Spoke to doctor from MAX Saket who has been called to kashmir,this time private sector is also standing with the army and contributing to their effort. But still I am satisfied as modi taught the mullahs of pakistan that he can do a Carnage in their jihadi camps there also not just Godhra.



jihadi camps? oh bhai better u guys send saif ali khan and katrina to do afgha jalebi in those "camps". 

lol bhai hum ko bhi location bataaa do camps ki. koi video koi google map image. anything bhai. we will also go watch saif and katrina dance.

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## alphibeti

randomradio said:


> A denial always follows a claim when it's a sensitive matter.
> 
> We claimed to shoot down an F-16. You are yet to deny it.
> 
> So cheers.


Who claimed shooting down Pak F16? I mean government of India? If yes, provide a reference. I think it's all Indian media that trying to spread lies as usual.

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## ice_man

mandrom said:


> LTTE and TTP are a shame . I never agreed with Doval's psychopathic methods of avenging terror with terror.But I am proud of Modis frontal attack method .For every terror attack hit hard with surgical precision .Such precision that 300 jihadis got killed.



300 munna who got you that figure matlab where did 300 come from. make it a bit less will look real 10 to 20. would sound plausible. 300 is insane USA couldn't kill so many al qaeda or Taliban fighters in one go the ones india is claiming.

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## alphibeti

mandrom said:


> Many of the experienced are being transferred to Kashmir for emergency field surgeries. A lot of indians and pakistanis killed in the shelling. 50 Indians and 35 pakistanis killed and several injured. Spoke to doctor from MAX Saket who has been called to kashmir,this time private sector is also standing with the army and contributing to their effort. But still I am satisfied as modi taught the mullahs of pakistan that he can do a Carnage in their jihadi camps there also not just Godhra.


"But still I am satisfied as modi taught the mullahs of Pakistan that he can do a Carnage in their jihadi camps there also not just Godhra" Good you still have delusions. Your 'Carnage' could do any thing except bringing humiliation to Indians. On top of that you lost three military aircraft, at least 8 officers, and one pilot captured. We'll certainly oblige if you keep the same work up. If you enjoy humiliation, it's our pleasure to supply that to you abundantly. Looks like Modi and his followers are addicted to humiliation especially by Pakistanis.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

mshan44 said:


>



Nice to hear from an Indian who is not brainwashed by Modi.

Indians should rest at ease, we will treat their POWs with respect and they will be comfortable.

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## atya

The Sandman said:


> Ya Allah kher...  this isn't good


What does it say?? The tweet isn't opening


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## The Sandman

atya said:


> What does it say?? The tweet isn't opening


Tweet got deleted but there was an announcement going on in masjid in malir saying turn off any extra lights in your houses and return to your homes.

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## Pakhtoon yum

mandrom said:


> 2 aircraft -one mig and one mi-17. We enjoy revenge and we had it when Modi killed 300 jihadis in their sleep and proved that he listens to the people.
> 
> 8 vs 300 lol. if this humiliation of india lol, then we must do surgical strike everytime.


Would u shut the fu%k up, @waz @Dubious

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## Talwar e Pakistan

mandrom said:


> LTTE and TTP are a shame . I never agreed with Doval's psychopathic methods of avenging terror with terror.But I am proud of Modis frontal attack method .For every terror attack hit hard with surgical precision .Such precision that 300 jihadis got killed.


*Trees

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## Irfan Baloch

The Sandman said:


> Tweet got deleted but there was an announcement going on in masjid in malir saying turn off any extra lights in your houses and return to your homes.


it is standard procedure

we are in war situation so its understandable that all bordering cities must observe precaution due to ongoing air engagements

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## Dazzler

The Sandman said:


> Tweet got deleted but there was an announcement going on in masjid in malir saying turn off any extra lights in your houses and return to your homes.



Dont panic, it is normal.

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## YeBeWarned

mandrom said:


> Islam started it by mass rapes and forced conversions. Any ways we give too social benefits to kashmiri sunnis.Empty mind devil workshop.Kashmir needs removal of benefits .



Chal bay Chawalen na maar yahan , Bhaag yahan se .. @waz @Dubious

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## Talwar e Pakistan

mandrom said:


> Islam started it by mass rapes and forced conversions. Any ways we give too social benefits to kashmiri sunnis.Empty mind devil workshop.Kashmir needs removal of benefits .


Kashmir became Muslim far before any Muslim army stepped into Kashmir. The first Muslim King of Kashmir was Rinchan a Buddhist who united Kashmir and then converted to Islam, much of his people followed.

Indian Occupied Kashmir has one of the highest rates of unemployment in the world; the "benefits" you provide is keeping them afloat, please do revoke them, because then even more Kashmiris will be asking for independence or unification with Pakistan.

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## Dazzler

On the lighter side, i saw some at the seaview an hour ago having great time.

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## Goenitz

__ https://www.facebook.com/




at 0:17 is that a flare beside jet going down... a man saying _'duey'_ two?

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## alphibeti

mandrom said:


> 2 aircraft -one mig and one mi-17. We enjoy revenge and we had it when Modi killed 300 jihadis in their sleep and proved that he listens to the people.
> 
> 8 vs 300 lol. if this humiliation of india lol, then we must do surgical strike everytime.


Only Indians believe in killing 300 jihadis (to hide their shame and desperation) and no one in world really believes in that absurd claim. Pakistani as well as international media has free access to the target area. Not even a single human casualty reported. If Indians had killed 300 Pakistanis, PAf wouldn't has targeted six Indian military facilities (including BHQs) with bomb having fuses switched off this morning. Rather we would have roasted scores of Indian rats.

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## jamal18

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Nice to hear from an Indian who is not brainwashed by Modi.
> 
> Indians should rest at ease, we will treat their POWs with respect and they will be comfortable.



Just saw the Indian pilot on the news. He was very appreciative of the Pakistani military and how they have treated him.

The mob that attacked him were pretty disgraceful. The government should announce how to treat captured enemy combatants.

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## Goenitz

mandrom said:


> From BBC hindi
> 
> Considering that KPK govt ordered extra 60 beds in hospital and military has cordoned off the bombarded area lol. Are they arranging the beds for the injured 'tree jihadis' lol.


contingency plan... plus until area is not clear, civilians are not allowed as there can be any unexploded bomb, chemical etc etc...

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## Wolf

Only 4 words must be enough for everything indians are throwing here.

"Come! We are waiting".

And first thing in the morning, volunteer with local army authorities that we are ready to be deployed anywhere on the border and give them your complete contact details. Enough of words. TIME TO FIGHT! May Allah's help be with you, countrymen. Ameen.

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## coffee_cup

mandrom said:


> For every terror attack hit hard with surgical precision .Such precision that 300 jihadis got killed.



I'll comment on this. First show me what is the *official* Indian version of this?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

mandrom said:


> we killed 300+ terrorists on pakistani land itself. That is an achievement itself. BBC stated that bombardment area in Balakot has been cordoned off by military and that local hospital have added 60 beds for emergency purpose.



False information. You are still getting Pakistani journalists reporting from Jabba valley hills.

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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Of course you dont.
> Indian financing, arming, training for LTTE, Mukti Bahini, BLA or TTP is a fiction. Right.
> 
> What else is a fiction? Please tell us, so that we could make some suggestions for the school curriculum in India.
> 
> PS: You just showed how dishonest can be even those people, who pride or pitch themselves of being neutral, when it comes to admitting their own sins.



Try not to be more of an ignoramus than you have shown yourself to be already. The reference was to suicide bombers. Do you need your references in monosyllables or bisyllabic? You used to be rather more intelligent than that. Perhaps you should take a long vacation from PDF.



mandrom said:


> I don't care. Constitution can be changed and so can the laws.



In this case, it cannot. It doesn't depend on whether or not your highness cares.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> False information. You are still getting Pakistani journalists reporting from Jabba valley hills.



The BBC is filled with pro-Indian bias and its not new check out their coverage of the 1971 wars always in bias towards Pakistan thankfully most Pakistanis finally know that the BBC is filled with crap, and yes they are journalists in the area the only casualties were trees.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

jamal18 said:


> Just saw the Idian pilot on the news. He was very appreciative of the Pakistani military and how they have treated him.
> 
> The mob that attacked him were pretty disgraceful. The government should announce how th treat capyured enemy combatants.



He opened fire on them, I don’t blame them for the panic.

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## Super Falcon

Di india have any logical proof as pak arned forces showing jinda IAF pilot plz show us one dead body pic or buiding destruction of jec dont lie that everything u do fell in paknothing came tou when ever pak shotdown ur jetthey fell in pak

I will give u examply of yourown when pak naval atlantique aircraft shot down ib 99 they fellin i dian waters u claimed that it was intruding and it felt why thatf 16 intruding miles in ibdian airsoace and fekt in pak you are challanging laws of physics and nature here

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## MultaniGuy

randomradio said:


> Nothing's been denied.
> 
> The entire operation consisted of F-16s in the first place.





coffee_cup said:


> I'll comment on this. First show me what is the *official* Indian version of this?


Where is Indian official claim that 300 Jihadis were killed in Pakistan.

Where is the international media on this?

Here is Japanese media on 300 Jihadis.

Pakistan government says nobody died in the Indian airstrikes.






A Pakistani soldier watches the movement of Indian forces on Saturday along the Line of Control from a post in Chakoti, 50 kilometers from Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani Kashmir. | AP
*ASIA PACIFIC*
*India says hundreds of terrorists killed in strikes on Pakistan, described as worst escalation in decades*
BLOOMBERG


ARTICLE HISTORY

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NEW, DELHI/ISLAMABAD - India said its fighter jets destroyed a major terrorist camp in Pakistan in an incident described by Islamabad to be a “grave aggression,” and reported to have been the worst escalation between the nuclear-armed rivals since 2001.

More than 300 people were killed in the airstrikes at the camp belonging to terrorist group Jaish-e-Mohammed that has trained suicide bombers, according to an Indian official speaking on condition of anonymity. *Pakistan denies the attack did any damage or caused casualties.*





Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale said in New Delhi today that India carried out strikes in Pakistan following an attack in Kashmir earlier this month, and in response to intelligence that indicated Jaish-e-Mohammed was planning more attacks.

“In the face of imminent danger, a preemptive strike became absolutely necessary,” Gokhale said. “In this operation, a very large number of JeM terrorists, trainers, senior commanders and groups of jihadis who were being trained for fidayeen action were eliminated.”

Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said at a televised news conference in Islamabad that India had violated the Line of Control. “India has committed aggression against Pakistan today — I will call it a grave aggression,” Qureshi said. “Pakistan reserves the right to respond reasonably,” he said, adding that Prime Minister Imran Khan had called a security briefing.

Earlier in the day the Indian rupee weakened offshore, but later erased most losses to trade 0.1 percent lower at 71.05 against the dollar. Pakistan stocks dropped 1.5 percent in the first 10 minutes of trading, with the benchmark KSE-100 Index near the lowest level in almost six weeks. India’s S&P BSE Sensex was down 0.6 percent at 12:09 p.m. in Mumbai, after plunging as much as 1.4 percent.

“The last time the Indian Air Force crossed the Line of Control intentionally and publicly to conduct airstrikes was 1971,” wrote Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at MIT in an email, referring to the last Indo-Pakistan war.

Major General Asif Ghafoor, spokesman for the Pakistan Armed Forces, said the Pakistan Air Force responded by scrambling its own jets, adding in a tweet there were “No casualties or damage.”

Relations between the historic arch-rivals have been extremely tense since a suicide car bombing, claimed by Pakistan-based terrorist group Jaish-e-Mohammed, killed 40 members of India’s security forces in Kashmir on Feb. 14. Jaish-e-Mohammed is a United Nations designated terrorist group.

The reported strikes are the worst escalation since 2001, when Pakistan and India moved ballistic missiles and troops to their border following an attack on parliament in New Delhi that was also blamed on Jaish-e-Mohammad. India and Pakistan have fought three wars since partition and independence in 1947.

“This is the first time that India has crossed the Line of Control and, from the looks of it, the international border,” said G. Parthasarathy, the former Indian High Commissioner in Pakistan. “In 2001, we had deployed the army on our borders but there was no military action.”

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who faces a general election in the coming months, is under enormous pressure after blaming Pakistan for the worst attack on security forces in Kashmir in several decades, and markets reacted after Modi pledged a “befitting reply.”

Islamabad has denied any role in the Feb. 14 attack. On Feb. 19, Khan vowed in a televised speech to retaliate against India if New Delhi launched any sort of military response. In the past few days, Pakistan’s army chief, General Qamar Javed Bajwa, visited troops along the Line of Control to review their preparedness, according to the military media wing Inter-Services Public Relations.

“My gut tells me there will be some form of escalation,” said Kamran Bokhari, director of Strategy and Programs at Center for Global Policy with the University of Ottawa, by phone. “Pakistan will have to strike back. I am not saying this will lead to an all out war but I don’t see that it’s over.”

The Indian Army said earlier, on Feb. 19, that it had killed a Jaish-e-Mohammed leader in Kashmir who was a Pakistani national and had links to that country’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) — the main spy agency for the government in Islamabad.

Modi had previously said the country’s defense forces have been given the freedom to respond.

Both India and the U.S. see Pakistan as providing safe haven for terrorist groups and point to the fact that the leadership of groups such as Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba, which carried out the Mumbai attacks in 2008, still live freely in Pakistan.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...-frontier-reports-no-casualties/#.XHb7c4hKiM8


*On Japanese media, it says Pakistan denies any deaths or causalities in the Indian airstrike.*

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## Talwar e Pakistan



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## alikazmi007

Question: *So how long it's gonna take for IAF to say that they lost this Mig-21 to "Mechanical Issues/Engine Problems/Navigation issues?* .....

Cause our good neighbors have this history of spinning the facts around for their Simpleton Junta i.e.

· Forcelanded Gnat by F-104 in 1965 War = Navigation issue (if I'm not mistaken on the reason given by the IAF)

· Flight lieutenant NachiKeta, shot down in Kargil = had some engine trouble, good guy

· And this nice fella, Wing Commander Abhinandan, from today's engagement who is also enjoying Pakistani hospitality ATM = Most likely the victim of faulty MIG

Poor bastards always bring the faulty Jets to an engagement! I do sympathies don't you!

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## valkyr_96

Joe Shearer said:


> If that is on your side of the LOC, there is not a single Indian soldier there.


just an FYI those people have been interviewed they have claimed two thing but only one is relevant to this conversation Abhi had fired 5 shots before the villagers got hold of him. I am just report it not claiming anything the video clip has been posted here.



Goenitz said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at 0:17 is that a flare beside jet going down... a man saying _'duey'_ two?





jamal18 said:


> Just saw the Idian pilot on the news. He was very appreciative of the Pakistani military and how they have treated him.
> 
> The mob that attacked him were pretty disgraceful. The government should announce how th treat capyured enemy combatants.


 the mob also claimed to have been fired upon

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## Ali_Baba

arbit said:


> The news is a few hours old, it is understandable PAF will want to keep it under wraps. Videos will be shared later. In the meantime, war like situation in here. Delhi airport operations are also being suspended and Pakistani airspace is in the process of being blocked.
> The last line is yet to be fully confirmed though.



This has now been proven to be false news.


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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> [..] The reference was to suicide bombers. [..]
> .



And LTTE trained, armed by India was not doing any suicide bombings in the region late 70s throughout 80s?
Are you asking me for proof for that as well?

Give me a break Joe, you know you are being dishonest here!

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## ProudPak

valkyr_96 said:


> just an FYI those people have been interviewed they have claimed two thing but only one is relevant to this conversation Abhi had fired 5 shots before the villagers got hold of him. I am just report it not claiming anything the video clip has been posted here.
> 
> 
> 
> the mob also claimed to have been fired upon


Not a mob....they are the nations foot soldiers. They will fight with bare hands

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## MultaniGuy

arbit said:


> 1 F-16 shot down in P-O-K.


Show me international news like BBC confirming this. Because Pakistan denies this.


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## alikazmi007

Stock of JF-17 Thunder is gonna go through the Roof!

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## valkyr_96

for Joe



ProudPak said:


> Not a mob....they are the nations foot soldiers. They will fight with bare hands


so will I........but as a muslim I care about the weak, destitute and those who have surrendered. I will remain vigilant and keep pointing out the farce of indian media and the hipocrisy and lies of the indian members.

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## maximuswarrior

valkyr_96 said:


> for Joe
> 
> so will I........but as a muslim I care about the weak, destitute and those who have surrendered. I will remain vigilant and keep pointing out the farce of indian media and the hipocrisy and lies of the indian members.



The bastard pilot didn’t have any trouble violating our airspace. He had no trouble engaging in hostile maneuvers against our fighters. Even upon parachuting the bastard continued hostile activity by shooting against innocent civilians. Fvck that bastard. He got off very lightly. He only surrendered after he was out of ammo.

The least we can do now is keep him in our custody as long as we can. Extract valuable information. Exchange him.

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100827977850458112

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## POPEYE-Sailor

Just listen Once u will be motivated 
Shaheed ki jo mout hai wo Qoam ki hayat hai just listen plz

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## Goenitz

ghazi52 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


old and don't trust PMLN page....


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## Fledgingwings




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## Avicenna

ghazi52 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Looks like the pilot is from No.51 squadron "Sword Arms" which flies the Mig-21 Bison based out of Srinigar?

According to the badge at least.

Not sure if this is actually old or relevant to yesterdays action.


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## HRK

Avicenna said:


> Not sure if this is actually old or relevant to yesterdays action.


old video not related to development occurred yesterday

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## Signalian

alikazmi007 said:


> Question: *So how long it's gonna take for IAF to say that they lost this Mig-21 to "Mechanical Issues/Engine Problems/Navigation issues?* .....
> 
> Cause our good neighbors have this history of spinning the facts around for their Simpleton Junta i.e.
> 
> · Forcelanded Gnat by F-104 in 1965 War = Navigation issue (if I'm not mistaken on the reason given by the IAF)
> 
> · Flight lieutenant NachiKeta, shot down in Kargil = had some engine trouble, good guy
> 
> · And this nice fella, Wing Commander Abhinandan, from today's engagement who is also enjoying Pakistani hospitality ATM = Most likely the victim of faulty MIG
> 
> Poor bastards always bring the faulty Jets to an engagement! I do sympathies don't you!


PAF also could have spun it around and reported of a new EMP device installed on JF-17 which brought down IAF aircrafts and helicopter by messing with their electronics thus creating technical faults.

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## The Eagle

Irrelevant footage, be avoided.

Regards,

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## Goenitz

Signalian said:


> PAF also could have spun it around and reported of a new EMP device installed on JF-17 which brought down IAF aircrafts and helicopter by messing with their electronics thus creating technical faults.


can we use HAARP like thing to jam incoming aircrafts? if focus, beam can physically damage too


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## Signalian

Goenitz said:


> can we use HAARP like thing to jam incoming aircrafts? if focus, beam can physically damage too


Will have to read into it, but for now AAM's are doing the job just fine


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## qamar1990

so did pakistan lose a jet or no??


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## HRK

qamar1990 said:


> so did pakistan lose a jet or no??


no


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## PWFI

Falcon26 said:


> First confirmed air to air kill by one nuclear power against another?





qamar1990 said:


> so did pakistan lose a jet or no??


no, Indians are barking, their old habit, face saving technics


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## qamar1990

HRK said:


> no


r u sure bro with 100% certainty? 
why did pakistan say they had 2 pilots in the beginning?? could the first pilot have been ours?


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## Goenitz

qamar1990 said:


> r u sure bro with 100% certainty?
> why did pakistan say they had 2 pilots in the beginning?? could the first pilot have been ours?


Pa said 2 aircarfts.. one in IOK and one in Azad Kashmir... so they thought even second pilot might have landed in Pak.. i guess


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## HRK

qamar1990 said:


> r u sure bro with 100% certainty?
> why did pakistan say they had 2 pilots in the beginning?? could the first pilot have been ours?


yaaap ....
- As there is no supportive evidence from Indian side and keep in mind that incident occur in broad daylight but no one has put anything related to F-16.
- Secondly _India have number of satellites _and Indian regularly boast that they see every movement in Pakistan from their satellites but still failed to present a single image in support their claim

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## Jinn Baba

qamar1990 said:


> r u sure bro with 100% certainty?
> why did pakistan say they had 2 pilots in the beginning?? could the first pilot have been ours?



Do you seriously believe that our armed forces could not differentiate between a Pakistani pilot or an Indian? Or the flag / insignia they would have on their uniform?

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

qamar1990 said:


> r u sure bro with 100% certainty?
> why did pakistan say they had 2 pilots in the beginning?? could the first pilot have been ours?


Indian statement said ground troops reported an aircraft falling into Pakistani territory. For a ground combatant having no prior knowledge of the identity of the aircraft, an aircraft falling inside Pakistan, be it a MiG-21, can easily be misidentified as/assumed to be a PAF aircraft.

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## Beast

It is claim both Indian aircraft are shot down during dogfight. Can anyone confirmed


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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> And LTTE trained, armed by India was not doing any suicide bombings in the region late 70s throughout 80s?
> Are you asking me for proof for that as well?
> 
> Give me a break Joe, you know you are being dishonest here!



Dishonest? The LTTE was never trained in suicide bombing by anyone, including India. Can you name a single suicide bombing in the 70s throughout the 80s? Just one?

I am rigid about facts.

You tend to vapour; it sounds harsh, it is unfortunate, sometimes facts do not run the way you wish them to run.


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## qamar1990

Joe Shearer said:


> Dishonest? The LTTE was never trained in suicide bombing by anyone, including India. Can you name a single suicide bombing in the 70s throughout the 80s? Just one?
> 
> I am rigid about facts.
> 
> You tend to vapour; it sounds harsh, it is unfortunate, sometimes facts do not run the way you wish them to run.


 so joe did you guys shoot down our plane??

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## Beast

jamal18 said:


> Just saw the Indian pilot on the news. He was very appreciative of the Pakistani military and how they have treated him.
> 
> The mob that attacked him were pretty disgraceful. The government should announce how to treat captured enemy combatants.


He fired at the mob with his pistol when landed , injured many villagers.until ran out of ammo That is why they are angry and attack him.

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## Canuck786

Beast said:


> It is claim both Indian aircraft are shot down during dogfight. Can anyone confirmed


You asked this question multiple times and obviously no one has any knowledge otherwise they would have answered. Let's say if the kills were made during a dog fight using Thunders and China then inducts some of these birds, wouldn't that help elevate it's credibility even more?


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## Joe Shearer

qamar1990 said:


> so joe did you guys shoot down our plane??



The facts are not known. I never take speculative positions on these matters. I will say that we did once there is wreckage to prove it, or aircraft-borne camera shots.


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## Stealth

*Yesterday they drop payload, today they drop pilot and tomorrow hopefully Preety Zinta, Dpeeka or Katrina .... bhai koi demand hey tu paesh kardoo subha honay wali hey subha 4 bajay atay hain drop karnay *

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## Beast

Canuck786 said:


> You asked this question multiple times and obviously no one has any knowledge otherwise they would have answered. Let's say if the kills were made during a dog fight using Thunders and China then inducts some of these birds, wouldn't that help elevate it's credibility even more?


Why would we need to induct when multiple times of our prototype JF-17 already dual with J-10. We are the creator of JF-17 and it's birthplace is in Chengdu. The chief designer is yang wei. We know this aircraft better than anybody

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## Canuck786

Beast said:


> Why would we need to induct when multiple times of our prototype JF-17 already dual with J-10. We are the creator of JF-17 and it's birthplace is in Chengdu. The chief designer is yang wei. We know this aircraft better than anybody


Because a lot of countries (read India) argue that China hasn't inducted JF-17 because it's inferior plane and is just a lollypop for Pakistan.

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## Beast

Canuck786 said:


> Because a lot of countries (read India) argue that China hasn't inducted JF-17 because it's inferior plane and is just a lollypop for Pakistan.


There is no need. You PAF already prove it's worth. If JF-17 shot down MKI during dogfight. It will be even better.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Dishonest? The LTTE was never trained in suicide bombing by anyone, including India. Can you name a single suicide bombing in the 70s throughout the 80s? Just one?
> 
> I am rigid about facts.
> 
> You tend to vapour; it sounds harsh, it is unfortunate, sometimes facts do not run the way you wish them to run.



You are making me seriously doubt about your knowledge of the region or lack of will of seeking the truth, since any Indian sponsored terrorism does not wake any interest in you as a topic.

But anyway, lets see if this brings you out of your eternal denial and dishonesty...

You ask:



Joe Shearer said:


> Can you name a single suicide bombing in the 70s throughout the 80s? Just one?


So let me help you with a very simple google search:

*Suicide bombings in Sri Lanka*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
*Suicide Bombing* was a popular tactic of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam . According to Jane's Information Group, between 1980 and 2000, *t**he LTTE carried out 168 suicide attacks* causing heavy damage on civilian, economic and military targets.[1]

Sources cited are at the end of the article, such as "_IISS Armed Conflict Database_".

Is that enough, or because it is faaaaaarr more than just one as you asked for, and since done by "kosher Indian sponsored terrorists" and victims were other countries in the region, it can not be qualified as suicide bombings?

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## Ahmet Pasha

Plz share video if you have it


Beast said:


> He fired at the mob with his pistol when landed , injured many villagers.until ran out of ammo That is why they are angry and attack him.



Han na yaar me bhi kab se Shraddha Kapoor ka intezaar kar rha hu k koi IAF C17 us ko paradrop kr de.


Stealth said:


> *Yesterday they drop payload, today they drop pilot and tomorrow hopefully Preety Zinta, Dpeeka or Katrina .... bhai koi demand hey tu paesh kardoo subha honay wali hey subha 4 bajay atay hain drop karnay *


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## Exxxe

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100848400302518278
God help the guys who are trying to
de escalate the situation wherever they are


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## ziaulislam

coffee_cup said:


> You are making me seriously doubt about your knowledge of the region or lack of will of seeking the truth, since any Indian sponsored terrorism does not wake any interest in you as a topic.
> 
> But anyway, lets see if this brings you out of your eternal denial and dishonesty...
> 
> You ask:
> 
> "*Can you name a single suicide bombing in the 70s throughout the 80s? Just one?*"
> 
> So let me help you with a very simple google search:
> 
> *Suicide bombings in Sri Lanka*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jump to navigation Jump to search
> *Suicide Bombing* was a popular tactic of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam . According to Jane's Information Group, between 1980 and 2000, *t**he LTTE carried out 168 suicide attacks* causing heavy damage on civilian, economic and military targets.[1]
> 
> Sources cited are at the end of the article, such as "_IISS Armed Conflict Database_".
> 
> Is that enough, or because it is faaaaaarr more than just one as you asked for, and since done by "kosher Indian sponsored terrorists" and victims were other countries in the region, it can not be qualified as suicide bombings?


You are wasting your time on this lunatic


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> You are making me seriously doubt about your knowledge of the region or lack of will of seeking the truth, since any Indian sponsored terrorism does not wake any interest in you as a topic.
> 
> But anyway, lets see if this brings you out of your eternal denial and dishonesty...
> 
> You ask:
> 
> "*Can you name a single suicide bombing in the 70s throughout the 80s? Just one?*"
> 
> So let me help you with a very simple google search:
> 
> *Suicide bombings in Sri Lanka*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jump to navigation Jump to search
> *Suicide Bombing* was a popular tactic of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam . According to Jane's Information Group, between 1980 and 2000, *t**he LTTE carried out 168 suicide attacks* causing heavy damage on civilian, economic and military targets.[1]
> 
> Sources cited are at the end of the article, such as "_IISS Armed Conflict Database_".
> 
> Is that enough, or because it is faaaaaarr more than just one as you asked for, and since done by "kosher Indian sponsored terrorists" and victims were other countries in the region, it can not be qualified as suicide bombings?



Your mistake, not mine.

You airily talked about suicide bombings in the mid-70s till the late 80s. 

Now, put up, or shut up. 

Also, produce the first suicide bombing and the date; it will prove how fatuous is your stand.


----------



## mshan44

The stock of the JF17 developer CAC rose by 10% and hit daily rise limit.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Your mistake, not mine.
> 
> You airily talked about suicide bombings in the mid-70s till the late 80s.
> 
> Now, put up, or shut up.
> 
> Also, produce the first suicide bombing and the date; it will prove how fatuous is your stand.



Now changing the goal posts, arent we?

I never said mid 70s, I said late 70s and through out 80s. As it turns out, it went through to as far as 2000.


So since it was not mid 70s but it was from 80s to 2000, it still does not qualify as suicide bombings because it was done by "kosher" Indian trained terrorists?

C'mon, reveal your true self. It is interesting to see the pacific mask leaving that face...

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## Ahmet Pasha

India is only blindly following their peer o murshid Israel where Suicide bombings were invented in the first place.


coffee_cup said:


> Now changing the goal posts, arent we?
> 
> I never said mid 70s, I said late 70s and through out 80s. As it turns out, it went through to as far as 2000.
> 
> 
> So since it was not mid 70s but it was from 80s to 2000, it still does not qualify as suicide bombings because it was done by "kosher" Indian trained terrorists?
> 
> C'mon, reveal your true self. It is interesting to see the pacific mask leaving that face...


----------



## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Ahmet Pasha

A few toilets won't hurt either.


ghazi52 said:


>


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## coffee_cup

Ahmet Pasha said:


> India is only blindly following their peer o murshid Israel where Suicide bombings were invented in the first place.



Joe, claims to be knowledgeable academic person and that he is "rigid on the facts"
.

But when I show him the facts that India is the one which has a very long history of sponsoring cross-border terrorism in the region and the one who introduced this maniac of suicide bombings when most of us never heard of it. He goes into denial mode.

If this is the state of so called "intellectuals" in India, what would you expect from all those extremists roaming around in India lynching minorities etc?

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## AsianLion

Wing Commandar Abhinandan’s father was Air Marshal and also his wife. Expect a huge huge Gold mine of information from this captured aggressor Indian Pilot.


----------



## KhalaiMakhlooq

Exxxe said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100895232059736064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100897630744428549
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100901165326352385



we about to go nuclear......


----------



## Goenitz

mshan44 said:


> The stock of the JF17 developer CAC rose by 10% and hit daily rise limit.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 542668


all chinese... no idea @Beast can you confirm?
anyway... good to see general muslim arabs are with Pakistan... @Areesh @BHarwana 
[QUOTE][MEDIA=youtube]G3bG5BTEGP4[/MEDIA][/QUOTE]


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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Now changing the goal posts, arent we?
> 
> I never said mid 70s, I said late 70s and through out 80s. As it turns out, it went through to as far as 2000.
> 
> 
> So since it was not mid 70s but it was from 80s to 2000, it still does not qualify as suicide bombings because it was done by "kosher" Indian trained terrorists?
> 
> C'mon, reveal your true self. It is interesting to see the pacific mask leaving that face...



That is good enough; what you said is what you need to corroborate. Nothing more, nothing less.

Second, why it does not qualify is embedded in the questions that I have asked you. If you had even a glimmering of the events of the times, you would have no difficulty in making the connection that stares you in the face, that conclusively discredits any of these schoolboyish speculations without any foundation.

I have already said, and I see no reason to repeat this beyond this repetition, put up, or shut up.

Get to the point, or get off your fact-free accusations.


----------



## airmarshal

Yaseen1 said:


> we should go deep inside india like they come to kpk penetrating iok is not enough for paf



They did not come to KPK. To travel there from Kashmir, you have to cross Islamabad and width of Punjab. How can they go undetected traveling that far? 

This is Indian propaganda naively taken by Pakistanis. There is Balakot in Azad Kashmir. Thats where it happened.


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## ghazi52




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## Ahmet Pasha

Exxxe said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100895232059736064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100897630744428549
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100901165326352385



Yo mods this post givin away too much info we cant remoce it on twitter but we shouldnt allow it here
@waz @WebMaster @The Eagle

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## conworldus

I certainly hope not! As much as I would love to see India being taught a lesson in humility and hopefully basic human decency, I do not want to see massive civilian death. I am sure this is just precaution. 


KhalaiMakhlooq said:


> we about to go nuclear......


----------



## KhalaiMakhlooq

conworldus said:


> I certainly hope not! As much as I would love to see India being taught a lesson in humility and hopefully basic human decency, I do not want to see massive civilian death. I am sure this is just precaution.



isnt the salt for weapon creation


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Now changing the goal posts, arent we?
> 
> I never said mid 70s, I said late 70s and through out 80s. As it turns out, it went through to as far as 2000.
> 
> 
> So since it was not mid 70s but it was from 80s to 2000, it still does not qualify as suicide bombings because it was done by "kosher" Indian trained terrorists?
> 
> C'mon, reveal your true self. It is interesting to see the pacific mask leaving that face...



Let me go further.

Identify ONE suicide bombing from the 1980s.


----------



## fallstuff

paritosh said:


> Can't deny that we have capabilities on both sides but there is not point in claiming victory over anything. The next few days will be tense, we might be staring at the first proper war in more than 40 years. Smart people on both the sides will be busy creating set-pieces and battle strategies right now, but the smartest would be busy figuring out an exit strategy.



I sincerely hope the is the case.


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## Ahmet Pasha

First time hearing those over here muricans test those every now and often especially in summer.


Exxxe said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100895232059736064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100897630744428549
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100901165326352385



U can expect this from both




@coffee_cup


----------



## ghazi52

While experts warned that the clash could easily escalate out of control, Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan told his nation Wednesday that he wanted to avoid war with India and urged, “Let’s settle this with talks.” There was no public statement, however, by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. 

“Our action was only intended to convey that if you can come into our country, we can do the same,” Khan said, referring to airstrikes by India on Tuesday and Pakistan's response on Wednesday. Addressing India, he said, “With the weapons you have and the weapons we have, can we really afford a miscalculation?”

The two days of tit-for-tat airstrikes and Wednesday’s aerial dogfight, the first since 1971, were triggered by a Feb. 14 terrorist bombing in Indian-controlled Kashmir that killed 40 Indian security personnel. The bombing, claimed by a Pakistan-based militant group called Jaish-e-Muhammad, was the deadliest single attack in 30 years of protests and conflict over the disputed Himalayan region, which is claimed in its entirety by both nations.


----------



## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> That is good enough; what you said is what you need to corroborate. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Second, why it does not qualify is embedded in the questions that I have asked you. If you had even a glimmering of the events of the times, you would have no difficulty in making the connection that stares you in the face, that conclusively discredits any of these schoolboyish speculations without any foundation.
> 
> I have already said, and I see no reason to repeat this beyond this repetition, put up, or shut up.
> 
> Get to the point, or get off your fact-free accusations.



If you were a lawyer and before a court hearing, the client would have stood up and asked the judge in the middle of case hearing to allow him defend himself, because even with a very limited knowledge of the law, he could do a much better job. And judge would have agreed. 

No wonder, no body buys Indian shyt anymore of being "victim of terrorism".

Your biggest export is now being rejected and coming back home. Deal with it, or just, as you put it, "shut up"!


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Joe, claims to be knowledgeable academic person and that he is "rigid on the facts"
> .
> 
> But when I show him the facts that India is the one which has a very long history of sponsoring cross-border terrorism in the region and the one who introduced this maniac of suicide bombings when most of us never heard of it. He goes into denial mode.
> 
> If this is the state of so called "intellectuals" in India, what would you expect from all those extremists roaming around in India lynching minorities etc?



For your information, there is no basis in the other allegation either. There was no suicide bombing outbreak in the Israeli context, as has been alleged, prior to the period that you defined. 

You did not show me a single fact; merely citing a report that is inaccurate is not sufficient. Stick to what you were challenged to do.


----------



## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Let me go further.
> 
> Identify ONE suicide bombing from the 1980s.



You have a pair of eyes and a brain (if still in a working shape), so read yourself and stop wasting my time.

Because no matter, what kind of evidence I present, you are not gonna get out of this deep state of denial that your school syllabus and govt has been feeding you for perhaps more than a half century.


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> If you were a lawyer and before a court hearing, the client would have stood up and asked the judge in the middle of case hearing to allow him defend himself, because even with a very limited knowledge of the law, he could do a much better job. And judge would have agreed.
> 
> No wonder, no body buys Indian shyt anymore of being "victim of terrorism".
> 
> Your biggest export is now being rejected and coming back home. Deal with it, or just, as you put it, "shut up"!



I doubt it. I doubt it for the simple reason that you are not a good judge of what might or might not happen in a courtroom; you lack the capacity to look at the written word and gauge what it means. Instead of working yourself into a frenzy trying to prove the unproveable, pay more attention to what you originally stated and what you were asked to prove.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Hand this monkey over to SSW/Air Intelligence they know how to deal with such scum.


AsianUnion said:


> Wing Commandar Abhinandan’s father was Air Marshal and also his wife. Expect a huge huge Gold mine of information from this captured aggressor Indian Pilot.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pakistan Zindabad


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> You have a pair of eyes and a brain (if still in a working shape), so read yourself and stop wasting my time.
> 
> Because no matter, what kind of evidence I present, you are not gonna get out of this deep state of denial that your school syllabus and govt has been feeding you for perhaps more than a half century.



I have read the records and know them well, much better than you do from a cursory flip through Google to find what might be plausible. 

Plausible is not accurate. 

You need to go beyond glib assumptions, otherwise you will remain floundering in a welter of misapplied prejudices.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yaar ye to koi khatron k khiladi me appear hone wali type personality lagti hai
Hahahaha


ghazi52 said:


>


----------



## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> I doubt it. I doubt it for the simple reason that you are not a good judge of what might or might not happen in a courtroom; you lack the capacity to look at the written word and gauge what it means. Instead of working yourself into a frenzy trying to prove the unproveable, pay more attention to what you originally stated and what you were asked to prove.



So tell me your stated position first.

*Is your stated position this:*

"India has never trained, armed, financed terrorists to carry out suicide attacks in the region?"


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> So tell me your stated position first.
> 
> *Is your stated position this:*
> 
> "India has never trained, armed, financed terrorists to carry out suicide attacks in the region?"



INDIA HAS NEVER TRAINED, ARMED, FINANCED TERRORISTS TO CARRY OUT SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE REGION.


----------



## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> I have read the records and know them well, much better than you do from a cursory flip through Google to find what might be plausible.
> 
> Plausible is not accurate.
> 
> You need to go beyond glib assumptions, otherwise you will remain floundering in a welter of misapplied prejudices.



My evidence is far better and admissible in any neutral court of law than the flimsy and made up shyt by indians, who have nothing but loudest cries and shouts until their vocal chords give up and world has to tell them to calm down.

Even though I am a just an average person.

All of your higher ups starting from NSA to the top man in the job seem to admit in one context or the other and brag about it openly.



Joe Shearer said:


> INDIA HAS NEVER TRAINED, ARMED, FINANCED TERRORISTS TO CARRY OUT SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE REGION.



So you deny the charge just like any criminal would do.

That means a trial must take place.

First question from the attorney representing the other side: *Has India ever financed, trained, armed Mukti Bahini or LTTE? *


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> My evidence is far better and admissible in any neutral court of law than the flimsy and made up shyt by indians, who have nothing but loudest cries and shouts until their vocal chords give up and world has to tell them to calm down.
> 
> Even though I am a just an average person.
> 
> All of your higher ups starting from NSA to the top man in the job seem to admit in one context or the other and brag about it openly.



If you had paid attention to the clues that I have peppered over my past posts, you would have got it by now. Irrefutable proof.

As it is, you didn't get it.

You are not average. I am sorry, that would raise you far above your capacity and your ability to comprehend simple facts.

This is getting amusing. You just don't have an idea. Neither about the facts nor about the trail of clues.



coffee_cup said:


> My evidence is far better and admissible in any neutral court of law than the flimsy and made up shyt by indians, who have nothing but loudest cries and shouts until their vocal chords give up and world has to tell them to calm down.
> 
> Even though I am a just an average person.
> 
> All of your higher ups starting from NSA to the top man in the job seem to admit in one context or the other and brag about it openly.
> 
> 
> 
> So you deny the charge just like any criminal would do.
> 
> That means a trial must take place.
> 
> First question from the attorney representing the other side: Has India ever financed, trained, armed Mukti Bahini or LTTE?



Yes, it has.

At the beginning of these organisations, when they needed basic help. Thereafter they went their own way, funded their own operations, and turned against their erstwhile sponsors.


----------



## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Yes, it has.



So* you admit* that* India has financed, trained, armed LTTE, the very LTTE who has carried out dozens (if not hundreds) of suicide attacks in Sri Lanks.
*
On a side note: I have seriously started to feel pitty for your mental state. Sorry, couldnt resist that!


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> So* you admit* that* India has financed, trained, armed LTTE, the very LTTE who has carried out dozens (if not hundreds) of suicide attacks in Sri Lanks.
> *
> On a side note: I have seriously to feel pitty for your mental state. Sorry, couldnt resist that!



I know you couldn't. The soft-headed often give in to these impulses.

No, I don't admit that India has financed, trained, armed LTTE that carried out suicide attacks.


----------



## Clutch

Joe Shearer said:


> INDIA HAS NEVER TRAINED, ARMED, FINANCED TERRORISTS TO CARRY OUT SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE REGION.



Liars... All Indians are liars... Look at their media. It's a Hindutva disease!!!

Lol.

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## j20611

Jackdaws said:


> Use that Chinese credit card wisely.


I’ll buy that captured Indian pilot a beef sandwich and a bar of soap for him to drop while he’s in prison with other Indian pows

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## Joe Shearer

Clutch said:


> Liars... All Indians are liars... Look at their media. It's a Hindutva disease!!!
> 
> Lol.



I like to grind one idiot in the face at a time. Take your place in the queue.

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## Joe Shearer

Clutch said:


> Lol... You guys are liars! It's part of Hindu mantra...
> 
> Moo par ram ram baghaal may chooree



Q.


----------



## Clutch

Joe Shearer said:


> Q.


*Indian Ex-Naval Officer On Death Row Is A 'Terrorist,' Pakistan Tells UN court*
February 19, 2019 17:21 GMT
_






Former Indian Navy officer Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav speaks via video link during a news conference at the Pakistani Foreign Ministry in Islamabad in December 2017.

An Indian citizen on death row in Pakistan for alleged spying committed "terrorist" acts on New Delhi's orders, lawyers representing Islamabad told the UN's top court on the second day of a hearing over the fate of the man.

Pakistani Attorney General Anwar Mansoor Khan told judges at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on February 19 that former naval officer Kulbhushan Jadhav ran a network "to carry out despicable terrorism and suicide bombing, targeted killing, kidnapping for ransom, and targeted operations to create unrest and instability in the country."
_

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## Joe Shearer

I love the sound of grinding gears


Clutch said:


> *Indian Ex-Naval Officer On Death Row Is A 'Terrorist,' Pakistan Tells UN court*
> February 19, 2019 17:21 GMT
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former Indian Navy officer Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav speaks via video link during a news conference at the Pakistani Foreign Ministry in Islamabad in December 2017.
> 
> An Indian citizen on death row in Pakistan for alleged spying committed "terrorist" acts on New Delhi's orders, lawyers representing Islamabad told the UN's top court on the second day of a hearing over the fate of the man.
> 
> Pakistani Attorney General Anwar Mansoor Khan told judges at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on February 19 that former naval officer Kulbhushan Jadhav ran a network "to carry out despicable terrorism and suicide bombing, targeted killing, kidnapping for ransom, and targeted operations to create unrest and instability in the country."_



*Q*


----------



## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> I know you couldn't. The soft-headed often give in to these impulses.
> 
> No, I don't admit that India has financed, trained, armed LTTE that carried out suicide attacks.





It is fun, I swear!!

And is the very reason, why no body takes indians serious anymore!!!! I read your statements and lmao! 

Dont know what to do about this zombie-like situation Indians are in!

But I can not blame you Joe, your school system, your govt, your culture has brainwashed your entire nation to such an extent that you are not capable of thinking rationally anymore. 

India as a nation needs to visit a psychologist.

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## Vortex

We are in thread talking about Indians jets downed by PAF, please avoid off topic posts.

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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> It is fun, I swear!!
> 
> And is the very reason, why no body takes indians serious anymore!!!! I read your statements and lmao!
> 
> Dont know what to do about this zombie-like situation Indians are in!
> 
> But I can not blame you Joe, your school system, your govt, your culture has brainwashed your entire nation to such an extent that you are not capable of thinking rationally anymore.
> 
> India as a nation needs to visit a psychologist.



Read what I have written. Try to see the elephant in the room. You are not much of a credit to whatever school system, government or culture suffered you. 

There is a key, and it is tragic that you are unable to see it. But that's what happens when people pontificate, without looking at the facts.


----------



## Signalian

AsianUnion said:


> Wing Commandar Abhinandan’s father was Air Marshal and also his wife. Expect a huge huge Gold mine of information from this captured aggressor Indian Pilot.


Air Intelligence has got the reports they need. Abhinandan won't open his mouth regarding state secrets and Intelligence will never torture him. His father will undertake all effort for his effective release, though he also knows how POW's are treated.

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## coffee_cup

Clutch said:


> *Indian Ex-Naval Officer On Death Row Is A 'Terrorist,' Pakistan Tells UN court*
> February 19, 2019 17:21 GMT
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former Indian Navy officer Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav speaks via video link during a news conference at the Pakistani Foreign Ministry in Islamabad in December 2017.
> 
> An Indian citizen on death row in Pakistan for alleged spying committed "terrorist" acts on New Delhi's orders, lawyers representing Islamabad told the UN's top court on the second day of a hearing over the fate of the man.
> 
> Pakistani Attorney General Anwar Mansoor Khan told judges at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on February 19 that former naval officer Kulbhushan Jadhav ran a network "to carry out despicable terrorism and suicide bombing, targeted killing, kidnapping for ransom, and targeted operations to create unrest and instability in the country."_



You are wasting your time.

I confess, I gave him some benefit of doubt for writing pages long non-sense, no body actually ever read, because of the randomness and "borrowed" sentences they contained.

But the more you get to know him, the more you know what Indian "intellectuals" look like.

We still remember their "hanuman army" defense minister who was graduated from the supposedly top notch university of India.





Joe Shearer said:


> Read what I have written. Try to see the elephant in the room. You are not much of a credit to whatever school system, government or culture suffered you.
> 
> There is a key, and it is tragic that you are unable to see it. But that's what happens when people pontificate, without looking at the facts.



Why should I waste reading the non-sense you post here?

It is mostly collection of random and "borrowed" sentences and infinitely far from the truth.


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Valley belongs to Pakistan as well

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## AsianLion

Signalian said:


> Air Intelligence has got the reports they need. Abhinandan won't open his mouth regarding state secrets and Intelligence will never torture him. His father will undertake all effort for his effective release, though he also knows how POW's are treated.



As far as I know he is not a POW as its not war so Pakistan doesnot have to follow any Geneva War POW conventions and laws. Simple the Wing Commander Abhi is like spy Kulbubshan Yadav and treat and hold him like that for many months.

This pilot has to bark out all information, his current plan, future plan and all Indian airforce plans period.


----------



## Joe Shearer

@co


coffee_cup said:


> You are wasting your time.
> 
> I confess, I gave him some benefit of doubt for writing pages long non-sense, no body actually ever read, because of the randomness and "borrowed" sentences they contained.
> 
> But the more you get to know him, the more you know what Indian "intellectuals" look like.
> 
> We still remember their "hanuman army" defense minister who was graduated from the supposedly top notch university of India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I waste reading the non-sense you post here?
> 
> It is mostly collection of random and "borrowed" sentences and infinitely far from the truth.



When you spot the central fact that explains the situation, and undermines your entire facade of prejudice shoring up sanctimonious positions, come back to me, humbly beg my pardon and accept that you are wrong. Until then, you have my permission to swing from some other branches of this tree.

The problem is that you are not sufficiently empirical. There is too much of theoretical vapouring.



coffee_cup said:


> You are wasting your time.
> 
> I confess, I gave him some benefit of doubt for writing pages long non-sense, no body actually ever read, because of the randomness and "borrowed" sentences they contained.
> 
> But the more you get to know him, the more you know what Indian "intellectuals" look like.
> 
> We still remember their "hanuman army" defense minister who was graduated from the supposedly top notch university of India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I waste reading the non-sense you post here?
> 
> It is mostly collection of random and "borrowed" sentences and infinitely far from the truth.



While you are at it, inform that other duffer @Ahmet Pasha that he is wrong too.

There; another clue.


----------



## Ahmet Pasha

Yep he is wrong
Cuz he is trying to talk sense with an Indian


Joe Shearer said:


> @co
> 
> 
> When you spot the central fact that explains the situation, and undermines your entire facade of prejudice shoring up sanctimonious positions, come back to me, humbly beg my pardon and accept that you are wrong. Until then, you have my permission to swing from some other branches of this tree.
> 
> The problem is that you are not sufficiently empirical. There is too much of theoretical vapouring.
> 
> 
> 
> While you are at it, inform that other duffer @Ahmet Pasha that he is wrong too.
> 
> There; another clue.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> @co
> 
> 
> When you spot the central fact that explains the situation, and undermines your entire facade of prejudice shoring up sanctimonious positions, come back to me, humbly beg my pardon and accept that you are wrong. Until then, you have my permission to swing from some other branches of this tree.
> 
> The problem is that you are not sufficiently empirical. There is too much of theoretical vapouring.



When challenged with facts that destroys your mantra completely, it is expected from a self-claimed indian "intellectual" to feel insecure, lose control and turn to slanders.

I am not surprised, Joe.


----------



## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> When challenged with facts that destroys your mantra completely, it is expected from a self-claimed indian "intellectual" to feel insecure, lose control and turn to slanders.
> 
> I am not surprised, Joe.



Facts; stick to the facts.


----------



## Clutch

Joe Shearer said:


> Read what I have written. Try to see the elephant in the room. You are not much of a credit to whatever school system, government or culture suffered you.
> 
> There is a key, and it is tragic that you are unable to see it. But that's what happens when people pontificate, without looking at the facts.




*Indian terrorism against Pakistan*

Top Story
Waqar Ahmed
December 22,2016


ShareNext Story >>>

*While Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi claims that Pakistan is the hotbed of terrorism in the region, a look at India’s active role in the creation of Bangladesh is worth revealing.*

The Bangladesh government has recently issued a gazette notification, defining the term ‘freedom fighter”. The definition has been finalised on the recommendation of Jatiya Muktijoddha Council. According to the notification, the following persons among others will be considered as the so-called freedom fighters: Who engaged in the war in response to the call of Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman between 26 March and 16 December 1971; those who were 13 years old on 26 March 1971 are eligible to apply for the status; those who crossed the border and received training in different Indian camps enlisting their names; professionals, including journalists, playing active role to build people’s supports abroad.

Needless to say the definition highlights a biased and lopsided approach of Haseena Wajid’s government towards the 1971’s tragic episode. The notification is part of the war launched by Mukti Bahini, created and supported by India, for dismemberment of Pakistan and creating hatred in the hearts and minds of Bengali people.

Mr Modi knows well and admitted to it that it was India that laid the foundation of cross-border terrorism. Before the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) was set up on 21 September 1968, the Indian Investigation Bureau (IB) was establishing Mukti Bahini. First, it set up the Mukti Fauj, then Sangram Parishad followed by Mukti Bahini. It is now well known that for the Mukti Bahini terrorists, the Indian Army operated training camps in the Indian states of West Bengal, Arunachal Pradesh, Bihar, Assam, Nagaland, Mizoram and Tripura. In late 1970, along with RAW and IB operatives, the Mukti Bahini had begun undertaking subversive activities in East Pakistan. If one checks newspapers of those days, one may find reports of blowing up of bridges, fuel depots, bank robberies, targeting of power plants and industries and killing of Pakistan armed forces personnel and non-Bengalis by the Mukti Bahini personnel aided by the Indian Army.

However, it should be noted that in 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops in East Pakistan was 34,000 and not 93,000 as claimed. Sharmila Bose in her book “Dead Reckoning” termed the number of killed as alleged by the BD government a gigantic rumor. The Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report considered even 26,000 dead as an exaggerated figure. Richard Sisson and Leo E. Rose in the book titled “War and Secession: Pakistan, India and the Creation of Bangladesh” and Gary Bass in his book “The Blood Telegram” clearly admit that the figures about so-called genocide were false.


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## Hellfire

VCheng said:


> There is no fun for me in the situation. I see it as yet another sad manifestation of the underlying issues that have been allowed to fester by both sides for far too long.



That was me being as sarcastic as one can be online .... 

But reminds me of the Phony War.


----------



## Clutch

Joe Shearer said:


> Facts; stick to the facts.



You guys have been exposed as liars infront of the global community.... We will shoot down another 100 of your pathetic terror pilots... Dare to come to Pakistan.. Dalits.

*INDIAN TERRORISM IN PAKISTAN The Story Of Three Spies And One Saboteur*






*The death of Sarabjit Singh is a reminder of how India expanded its limited conflict with Pakistan over Kashmir into an all-out animosity.*
*BACKGROUNDER* | 3 May 2013
Project For Pakistan In 21st Century
ProjectPakistan21.org

CLICK HERE to read the report, or click here to download PDF copy

Executive Summary

This backgrounder offers a clear, concise and uncluttered argument on Indian terrorism against Pakistan since 1950. It is meticulous work that will help researchers in Pakistan, India and the world understand the genesis of Indian animosity toward a neighbor five times smaller that represents no threat to India.

The authors of this document encourage reading the entire dossier to better understand the Executive Summary shown below.



1. Pakistan faced a wave of Indian terrorism in the 1980s and 1990s. The arrest of two spies, Kashmir Singh and Surjeet Singh, and one terrorist-saboteur Sarabjit Singh, came in this period.

2. Way before 9/11 and al-Qaeda, India was the first source of State and Non-State terrorism in the region.

3. Pakistan’s dispute with India was limited to Kashmir at the UNSC. Bilateral relations were normal. But India expanded the conflict into other areas in 1950, 1971, 1974 and 2002.

4. In 1950, three years after Pakistan’s independence, India launched a proxy war against it from Afghanistan.

5. In 1969, India exploited low Pakistani deployment on East Pakistan border and began organizing and recruiting a terror militia. In 1971, sensing an opportunity, India launched an invasion across international borders, aided by the terror militia, to seize territory and declare it Bangladesh.

6. In 1974, India introduced nuclear weapons in the region. The move was unnecessarily and unprovoked, just like its invasion of Pakistan three years earlier.

7. Evidence and statements by Kashmir Singh and Surjeet Singh to the Indian media confirm that a third terrorist-saboteur Sarabjit Singh was a killer sent by India to eliminate Pakistani civilians in public places.

8. The cases of the three Indian agents prove how India sent terrorists to Pakistan from 1973 [Kashmir Singh] to 1990 [Sarabjit Singh].

9. Pakistani track record of treating Indian prisoners, including convicted Indian terrorists, is impeccable. In comparison, India returned a Pakistani PoW without a tongue. India ‘executed’ a Kashmiri and never returned his body to family.

10. Pakistan has pardoned two Indian spies and released several others without any bodily or mental harm. India never reciprocated.

11. Indian media and government officials clearly exploited the accidental death of convicted Indian terrorist Sarabjit Singh in a prison brawl to whip up anti-Pakistanism and war hysteria.

12. Instead of coming clean and mending fences, India lied to its public about the terrorist activities of its agents in Pakistan and misled the public opinion.

13. In 2002, India returned to Afghanistan to revive anti-Pakistan terror activities, coming full circle since 1950.

14. What drives Indian terror activities against Pakistan since 1950? One answer is: the Hindi-speaking northern Indian minority that rules India. More information is provided in this backgrounder on the so far hidden role of Hindi-speaking north Indians in India’s internal and external conflicts.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Facts; stick to the facts.



Like you are doing in your posts here?


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## Ahmet Pasha

Kulbushun was disgruntled and with a guilty conscious so he gave in easily barely with any torture.

Abhinanananananandan seems motivated but I say he can be broken by SSW and Air Intelligence

@Signalian @Clutch


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## Hellfire

VCheng said:


> Do their RoE allow hot pursuit across the LoC?




No. 

But he did not cross the LC either. He was chasing the egressing fighter and ended up in technical violation himself. So was shot down and fell across LC. Happens.


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## MastanKhan

Signalian said:


> Air Intelligence has got the reports they need. Abhinandan won't open his mouth regarding state secrets and Intelligence will never torture him. His father will undertake all effort for his effective release, though he also knows how POW's are treated.



Hi,

Is Abhinandan an SU30 pilot---. He is too articulate and has too much confidence to be a MIG21 pilot----. And specially if his father is a high ranking Retd IAF officer---.

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## Hellfire

Han Patriot said:


> Funny how a SU-30 pilot is flying a Mig? My bet is his Su crashed in India.




My own relative, has 05 platforms' experience in IAF. It is quite normal. As they progress, they acquire exposure to platforms. So, sorry, you shall be disappointed.


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## MastanKhan

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Kulbushun was disgruntled and with a guilty conscious so he gave in easily barely with any torture.
> 
> Abhinanananananandan seems motivated but I say he can be broken by SSW and Air Intelligence



Hi,

Kulbhushan and Abhi were in tewo different positions---.

Kulbhushan was a spy living under constant fear for years---so his resolve was ready to admit because of the atrocities that he committed and paid pothers to do the biddings---.

Abhi---is full of confidence---looks to be an SU30 pilot rather than a mig21 pilot---


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## Signalian

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is Abhinandan an SU30 pilot---. He is too articulate and has too much confidence to be a MIG21 pilot----. And specially if his father is a high ranking Retd IAF officer---.


I expect him to be returned back (whenever) in best health. Pakistan Military has a responsibility to deliver him according to the norms which are to be followed. Interrogators know how to bond with captured prisoners.

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## coffee_cup

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Kulbushun was disgruntled and with a guilty conscious so he gave in easily barely with any torture.
> 
> Abhinanananananandan seems motivated but I say he can be broken by SSW and Air Intelligence



I think there is no need for any torture.
ISI are quite good at interrogating ppl without torture. So hand him to them for a few cups of coffee and lets see whether he is still "not supposed to tell them" things.  

I want to feel pity for the poor bast@rd, but when I see what they are doing to civilians in Occupied Kashmir and elsewhere, I am not very sure.

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## Han Patriot

Vibrio said:


> My own relative, has 05 platforms' experience in IAF. It is quite normal. As they progress, they acquire exposure to platforms. So, sorry, you shall be disappointed.


So you telling me a well trained SU-30 pilot is given a mig-21 to fly aka the flying coffin in a real war situation for exposure? LOL


----------



## lonelyman

SrNair said:


> Lol
> How many times they will change their words ?
> Pak General changed it again now hevis saying only one pilot .
> 
> Actually it was two jets and two pilots .
> But one pilot was Pakistani and their jet was F 16 .
> Due to over enthusiasm he said two.
> 
> Any way we knows there will be a face saving measure from PAF .Because the yesterday insult was that much .
> 
> During aerial fighting .PoW is possible .
> And fighter was Mig 21 bison.
> Wing Commander Vardhaman did an excellent job .Shot F 16 and chased in to their territory .Salute to that courage .
> We will take necessary measure to bring him back.
> But it seems our fight against terrorism will continue .
> India will strike again if there is any further terrorist attempt
> 
> 
> 
> That soldiers is creating a bad impression.
> Only a thin border between India and Pakistan .And each one can decide the host treatment through the their own action
> 
> 
> 
> No Sukhoi.
> If there was a Su then there wont be any engagrment only shooting .
> Su wont use for CAP




Where is the proof you shot f16? Ridiculous 

Learn to accept defeat

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

alikazmi007 said:


> Question: *So how long it's gonna take for IAF to say that they lost this Mig-21 to "Mechanical Issues/Engine Problems/Navigation issues?* .....


The wonderful folk at Rakshak forum have been spinning stories since this morning that the MiG wasn’t hit by any fire (ground or air) but crashed as a result of shooting down a PAF F-16 and got hit by the debris of the F-16.

Such is the level of their delusion and superiority complex that the only way an Indian fighter can be brought down is by the debris of a target it destroyed, ostensibly because the IAF pilots are so courageous that they choose to almost fly up the arse of an enemy fighter to shoot it down.

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## SorryNotSorry

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Kulbhushan and Abhi were in tewo different positions---.
> 
> Kulbhushan was a spy living under constant fear for years---so his resolve was ready to admit because of the atrocities that he committed and paid pothers to do the biddings---.
> 
> Abhi---is full of confidence---looks to be an SU30 pilot rather than a mig21 pilot---


The pictures of his papers indicate he was flying the mig 21.


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## Ahmet Pasha

Exactly what I said sir. I feel he will divulge some info wither knowingly or unknowingly(if u get what I mean). This abhinananananandan seems like a true bhakht he was shooting at random civvies.


MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Kulbhushan and Abhi were in tewo different positions---.
> 
> Kulbhushan was a spy living under constant fear for years---so his resolve was ready to admit because of the atrocities that he committed and paid pothers to do the biddings---.
> 
> Abhi---is full of confidence---looks to be an SU30 pilot rather than a mig21 pilot---



Bro he was shooting at civvies so no pity. Yes there is also passive interrogation make someone pretend to be another POW and somehow play him to divulge more info.


coffee_cup said:


> I think there is no need for any torture.
> ISI are quite good at interrogating ppl without torture. So hand him to them for a few cups of coffee and lets see whether he is still "not supposed to tell them" things.
> 
> I want to feel pity for the poor bast@rd, but when I see what they are doing to civilians in Occupied Kashmir and elsewhere, I am not very sure.

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## Hellfire

Bratva said:


> When there was no F-16 involved in the raid, how an F-16 be shot ? Your sources are taking you for a feel good ride to hide their embarrassment and you are willingly accepting their fake feel good narrative and peddling to all gullible indians who badly need something to latch onto.
> 
> We have a video of downed Indian aircraft. Why your ground units didn't made movie of Pakistani downed aircraft ?



Ingress (and here it is meant to denote technical violation) by 03 x F-16s in General Area Nowshera. Confirmed. I do not buy into propaganda easily. And it is the Pakistani side which has been found to shooting nonsense as seen on thread here itself (taking footage of our pilot ejecting out of SKAT mishap at AeroIndia 2019 as captured pilot #2, what a laugh), of claims of shooting down 02 x Aircrafts and holding 02 x Pilots of IAF, something declared by the PM Mr Imran Khan on live TV.

But like the day before, when he declared that the Balakot in KPK was not attacked, DG ISPR had reversed the denial to acceptance of Balakot in KPK being targeted. So, is the PM being deliberately made to lie in order to create a narrative that the Political leadership, "as usual", mishandled the crisis with India and hence PA came to rescue? @VCheng @AgNoStiC MuSliM 


Yesterday, DG ISPR confirmed only holding 01xPilot only. Just after PM Mr Khan, on live TV declared holding 02 x IAF Pilots.

Where has the pilot, admitted to CMS, disappeared? 

My dear sir, do look at the information you are being given. However, if your intent is only to push the official line, carry on. 

And then the nonsense spewed here on this thread of BVR shooting down a Mi-17 in Badgam ... 

Maybe, you need to read the lines you have posted, to yourself.


----------



## coffee_cup

Clutch said:


> *Indian terrorism against Pakistan*
> 
> Top Story
> Waqar Ahmed
> December 22,2016
> 
> 
> ShareNext Story >>>
> 
> *While Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi claims that Pakistan is the hotbed of terrorism in the region, a look at India’s active role in the creation of Bangladesh is worth revealing.*
> 
> The Bangladesh government has recently issued a gazette notification, defining the term ‘freedom fighter”. The definition has been finalised on the recommendation of Jatiya Muktijoddha Council. According to the notification, the following persons among others will be considered as the so-called freedom fighters: Who engaged in the war in response to the call of Sheikh Mujib-ur-Rehman between 26 March and 16 December 1971; those who were 13 years old on 26 March 1971 are eligible to apply for the status; those who crossed the border and received training in different Indian camps enlisting their names; professionals, including journalists, playing active role to build people’s supports abroad.
> 
> Needless to say the definition highlights a biased and lopsided approach of Haseena Wajid’s government towards the 1971’s tragic episode. The notification is part of the war launched by Mukti Bahini, created and supported by India, for dismemberment of Pakistan and creating hatred in the hearts and minds of Bengali people.
> 
> Mr Modi knows well and admitted to it that it was India that laid the foundation of cross-border terrorism. Before the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) was set up on 21 September 1968, the Indian Investigation Bureau (IB) was establishing Mukti Bahini. First, it set up the Mukti Fauj, then Sangram Parishad followed by Mukti Bahini. It is now well known that for the Mukti Bahini terrorists, the Indian Army operated training camps in the Indian states of West Bengal, Arunachal Pradesh, Bihar, Assam, Nagaland, Mizoram and Tripura. In late 1970, along with RAW and IB operatives, the Mukti Bahini had begun undertaking subversive activities in East Pakistan. If one checks newspapers of those days, one may find reports of blowing up of bridges, fuel depots, bank robberies, targeting of power plants and industries and killing of Pakistan armed forces personnel and non-Bengalis by the Mukti Bahini personnel aided by the Indian Army.
> 
> However, it should be noted that in 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops in East Pakistan was 34,000 and not 93,000 as claimed. Sharmila Bose in her book “Dead Reckoning” termed the number of killed as alleged by the BD government a gigantic rumor. The Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report considered even 26,000 dead as an exaggerated figure. Richard Sisson and Leo E. Rose in the book titled “War and Secession: Pakistan, India and the Creation of Bangladesh” and Gary Bass in his book “The Blood Telegram” clearly admit that the figures about so-called genocide were false.



Have a little pity on the poor old chap with high blood pressure.


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## Ahmet Pasha

Could be IAF gave an SU30 pilot a MiG 21 so they could kinda guage the response and in worse case not lose a more expensive machine. As this whole thing was just meant to get Modi elected. So I doubt Indian Mil would want to lose expensive machine only for Modi.

And this Abhinanananandan had progressed through MiG and then onto Sukhoi

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## iPhone

mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100836117056753664


Wow that was beautiful. Dil ko thand pohanch gae.

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## Hellfire

VCheng said:


> Let's see what @Vibrio says in this matter. Either possibility opens up its own concerns.




Tagging @AgNoStiC MuSliM 

Unlikely.
IAF will remain on this side of LC. Weapons free, yes, otherwise, will not cross until and unless it is decided to target some other group.

So expect a long haul heavily active LC and high sortie rates and potential for aerial clashes.


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## Ahmet Pasha

After watching this we may not even have to fight India. Just send the IL78 and the C130 to airdrop AKs and 7.62 ammo into Kashmir and just watch the fireworks and how Kashmiris bring Modi in chains to Srinagar


ghazi52 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Thorough Pro

I come from a family of warriors, and you are right I have heard wonderful stories of how my great grand fathers shafted the bhartis in their times as well. The proud tradition is alive. You on the other hand can keep celebrating 2nd surgical strike but don't forget the poor 300~350 bharti soldirs that we turned in to mince meat 






Jackdaws said:


> You must heard some wonderful bedtime stories as a kid.
> Anyways, never forget - where and how it all happened.

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## Hellfire

Han Patriot said:


> So you telling me a well trained SU-30 pilot is given a mig-21 to fly aka the flying coffin in a real war situation for exposure? LOL




If LOL is your take from being given facts. Out.


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## Vortex

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Could be IAF gave an SU30 pilot a MiG 21 so they could kinda guage the response and in worse case not lose a more expensive machine. As this whole thing was just meant to get Modi elected. So I doubt Indian Mil would want to lose expensive machine only for Modi.
> 
> And this Abhinanananandan had progressed through MiG and then onto Sukhoi



Good analysis, but what do you think about the value of the Su30 qualified pilot ? Is it worth risking to loose him ?

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## Ahmet Pasha

Ai oye mun te chittar peyon peyon k


mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100836117056753664

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## ghazi52



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## Ahmet Pasha

Well a very valid point there too.
Maybe they anticipated getting him back rather quickly???


Vortex said:


> Good analysis, but what do you think about the value of the Su30 qualified pilot ? Is it worth risking to loose him ?


----------



## Taha Samad

A source through my colleague:

2 x Mig-21 Shot Down. Shot Down by JF-17. No F-16s involved at all, so its an absurd claim India is making.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Vibrio said:


> But like the day before, when he declared that the Balakot in KPK was not attacked, DG ISPR had reversed the denial to acceptance of Balakot in KPK being targeted. So, is the PM being deliberately made to lie in order to create a narrative that the Political leadership, "as usual", mishandled the crisis with India and hence PA came to rescue?


No. You’re confusing premature dissemination of information with some sort of grand conspiracy by the PA, which, ironically, is the kind of conspiratorial propaganda typically distributed by the Indian establishment, propaganda you claim not to buy into easily.

All the information from sources in this end claims that no No F-16’s were involved in the engagement with the IAF fighters. Of course it’s off the record info, so I’ll always put that as a caveat, that it is open to correction pending new publicly available facts and evidence.

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## Vortex

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Well a very valid point there too.
> Maybe they anticipated getting him back rather quickly???



Then we should keep him at least for 1 year and feed him with samosa pakora and pratha only he won’t be able to fly at all !

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## VCheng

Vibrio said:


> Ingress (and here it is meant to denote technical violation) by 03 x F-16s in General Area Nowshera. Confirmed. I do not buy into propaganda easily. And it is the Pakistani side which has been found to shooting nonsense as seen on thread here itself (taking footage of our pilot ejecting out of SKAT mishap at AeroIndia 2019 as captured pilot #2, what a laugh), of claims of shooting down 02 x Aircrafts and holding 02 x Pilots of IAF, something declared by the PM Mr Imran Khan on live TV.
> 
> But like the day before, when he declared that the Balakot in KPK was not attacked, DG ISPR had reversed the denial to acceptance of Balakot in KPK being targeted. So, is the PM being deliberately made to lie in order to create a narrative that the Political leadership, "as usual", mishandled the crisis with India and hence PA came to rescue? @VCheng @AgNoStiC MuSliM
> 
> 
> Yesterday, DG ISPR confirmed only holding 01xPilot only. Just after PM Mr Khan, on live TV declared holding 02 x IAF Pilots.
> 
> Where has the pilot, admitted to CMS, disappeared?
> 
> My dear sir, do look at the information you are being given. However, if your intent is only to push the official line, carry on.
> 
> And then the nonsense spewed here on this thread of BVR shooting down a Mi-17 in Badgam ...
> 
> Maybe, you need to read the lines you have posted, to yourself.



Let's just say for now that let the present inflammation die down a bit before a rational discussion can take place.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

iPhone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100836117056753664
> Wow that was beautiful. Dil ko thand pohanch gae.



LOL. Singh ji cha geyn.

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## blackuday




----------



## SQ8

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> No. You’re confusing premature dissemination of information with some sort of grand conspiracy by the PA, which, ironically, is the kind of conspiratorial propaganda typically distributed by the Indian establishment, propaganda you claim not to buy into easily.
> 
> All the information from sources in this end claims that no No F-16’s were involved in the engagement with the IAF fighters. Of course it’s off the record info, so I’ll always put that as a caveat, that it is open to correction pending new publicly available facts and evidence.


No F-16 was ever shot down or even paint withered.
If this ends soon and required the PAF can have all its F-16s lined up to let anyone count them out.

That is as “official” as I could back it

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

@Vibrio 

With respect to the wrong images and videos being shared on various Pakistani media platforms (including this one) I can only say that they should be ignored, as should the Indian media when it comes to various claims.

Additionally, I see the corrections issued by the DG ISPR as a positive rather than negative, in that the military is willing to provide corrections and updated information rather than digging in and perpetuating the initial, premature incorrect information. In my view this only strengthens the validity of their claims.

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## iPhone

maximuswarrior said:


> The bastard pilot didn’t have any trouble violating our airspace. He had no trouble engaging in hostile maneuvers against our fighters. Even upon parachuting the bastard continued hostile activity by shooting against innocent civilians. Fvck that bastard. He got off very lightly. He only surrendered after he was out of ammo.
> 
> The least we can do now is keep him in our custody as long as we can. Extract valuable information. Exchange him.


Yeah I think there should be charges pressed against him for trying to kill an unarmed civilian. We have a Pakistani citizen that is saying the Indian pilot opened fire on him upon realizing he was in Pakistan. That’s definitely grounds for prosecution.

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## valkyr_96

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> No. You’re confusing premature dissemination of information with some sort of grand conspiracy by the PA, which, ironically, is the kind of conspiratorial propaganda typically distributed by the Indian establishment, propaganda you claim not to buy into easily.
> 
> All the information from sources in this end claims that no No F-16’s were involved in the engagement with the IAF fighters. Of course it’s off the record info, so I’ll always put that as a caveat, that it is open to correction pending new publicly available facts and evidence.


 his propaganda was evident even when he paraded as hellfire DGISPR reported on the facts collected from the locals when the pilot was collected he intially said two are in the area








and this was the Indian reaction

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100656090805686272Please note that the pilot shot at unarmed civilians

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## Windjammer

The captured Indian pilot's document stated that he was attached to the 51st squadron which a quick search reveals to be a MiG-21 Bison unit, however nothing could be said about the second aircraft, some of the wreckage photos doing rounds on the internet make it look a twin engine jet.
Whatever the identity is of second jet, two kills are what they exactly mean, all the more significant as they were achieved by PAF's very own home grown fighter.

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## Vortex

Windjammer said:


> The captured Indian pilot's document stated that he was attached to the 51st squadron which a quick search reveals to be a MiG-21 Bison unit, however nothing could be said about the second aircraft, some of the wreckage photos doing rounds on the internet make it look a twin engine jet.
> Whatever the identity is of second jet, two kills are what they exactly mean, all the more significant as they were achieved by PAF's very own home grown fighter.



Which document Windjammer ?
And does the document say since when he was playing cowboy on bison ?


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## Waqar Rashid

Any updates about other pilots?


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## Windjammer

Vortex said:


> Which document Windjammer ?
> And does the document say since when he was playing cowboy on bison ?

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## MastanKhan

Vibrio said:


> Ingress (and here it is meant to denote technical violation) by 03 x F-16s in General Area Nowshera. Confirmed. I do not buy into propaganda easily. And it is the Pakistani side which has been found to shooting nonsense as seen on thread here itself (taking footage of our pilot ejecting out of SKAT mishap at AeroIndia 2019 as captured pilot #2, what a laugh), of claims of shooting down 02 x Aircrafts and holding 02 x Pilots of IAF, something declared by the PM Mr Imran Khan on live TV.
> 
> But like the day before, when he declared that the Balakot in KPK was not attacked, DG ISPR had reversed the denial to acceptance of Balakot in KPK being targeted. So, is the PM being deliberately made to lie in order to create a narrative that the Political leadership, "as usual", mishandled the crisis with India and hence PA came to rescue? @VCheng @AgNoStiC MuSliM
> 
> 
> Yesterday, DG ISPR confirmed only holding 01xPilot only. Just after PM Mr Khan, on live TV declared holding 02 x IAF Pilots.
> 
> Where has the pilot, admitted to CMS, disappeared?
> 
> My dear sir, do look at the information you are being given. However, if your intent is only to push the official line, carry on.
> 
> And then the nonsense spewed here on this thread of BVR shooting down a Mi-17 in Badgam ...
> 
> Maybe, you need to read the lines you have posted, to yourself.



Hi,

See the picture in the backgroun---with arms in the air---






Thanks to a poster on defence.pk

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## Fawad alam

@Windjammer Can you tell me whether Chinese Used these AAMs somewhere or We are the only one used them in real combat?


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## YeBeWarned

Oscar said:


> No F-16 was ever shot down or even paint withered.
> If this ends soon and required the PAF can have all its F-16s lined up to let anyone count them out.
> 
> That is as “official” as I could back it



Any Idea if the engagement was WVR or BVR ? PL-15 or SD-10's were used ?


----------



## The Diplomat

Starlord said:


> Any Idea if the engagement was WVR or BVR ? PL-15 or SD-10's were used ?


I heard it was a BVR.


----------



## untitled

valkyr_96 said:


> Please note that the pilot shot at unarmed civilians


Is that a war crime? If so can he be tried in a military court if Pakistan decides to press charges?


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## Jackdaws

j20611 said:


> I’ll buy that captured Indian pilot a beef sandwich and a bar of soap for him to drop while he’s in prison with other Indian pows


Ah. Your fantasies. Continue to air them.


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## valkyr_96

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> See the picture in the backgroun---with arms in the air---
> 
> View attachment 542688
> 
> 
> Thanks to a poster on defence.pk


 Very interesting even the soldier is looking towards the person.

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## SQ8

Starlord said:


> Any Idea if the engagement was WVR or BVR ? PL-15 or SD-10's were used ?


We do not have pl-15s.
The SD-10 is sufficient when paired with the JF-17 to deter any aggression.

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## ARMalik

Ok so now many hours have passed when Pakistan has bashed India. Pakistan downing the indian jets and parading the captured indian pilot was the *front line news here*. Since then, it has been a deafening silence everywhere including India. This points to *two *important things:

1- *Everyone is stunned!* Specially India, USA and the West. Note there is *complete silence* f*rom Russia and China *probably pointing to the fact that they knew that india was wrong but they never expected Pakistan to *thrash india and openly threaten it!!*

2- It also points to the fact that either things have *started to clam down OR Round-3 is about to start*. I think in round-3, it would be the turn of Pakistan army to flex its muscle. Apparently, they have already done *considerable damage* to India in Sialkot sector, and it will only get worse for india in the next few days if it keeps acting like a Clown.

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## YeBeWarned

Oscar said:


> We do not have pl-15s.
> The SD-10 is sufficient when paired with the JF-17 to deter any aggression.



Sorry i think i mixed up, which WVR JF is using ?


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## SQ8

member.exe said:


> Is that a war crime? If so can he be tried in a military court if Pakistan decides to press charges?


There is no war crime. He is a man landing in hostile territory after a harrowing turn of events. It was likely (and did happen before PA intervention ) that civilians might lynch him. He has that right to defend himself.

Indian civilians have lynched PAF pilots in 65 and Indian troops have executed them- we aren’t them and should at least be professional on a forces level - and have demonstrated with proof that we are.



Starlord said:


> Sorry i think i mixed up, which WVR JF is using ?


Sd10

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## YeBeWarned

Oscar said:


> Sd10



It seems PAF said that they happy and have full confidence over SD-10 but some members here have shown concerns on Chini mall ( No offense ) . If Block 2 were involved in this show down with its current Non AESA configuration , I can only Imagine that what kind of a beast block 3 will become ..

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## SQ8

Starlord said:


> It seems PAF said that they happy and have full confidence over SD-10 but some members here have shown concerns on Chini mall ( No offense ) . If Block 2 were involved in this show down with its current Non AESA configuration , I can only Imagine that what kind of a beast block 3 will become ..


Current results are enough proof of Chini maal.

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## HydNizam

Wing commander Abhinandan- I cannot telll you about my family or which city I am from.

Indian media- 
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nat...dan-varthaman-dads-worst-fears-came-true.html

There is blanket silence from all the BJP leaders which just one day before we’re war mongering on another level. Capture of a iaf pilot has changed the dynamics on the Indian side. Even hardcore hindutva bigots are clamouring for peace and requesting Pakistan to send Abhinandan back. 

Such a drastic shift in one day. 
But it all boils down to Modi , he is desperately searching for a face saving.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100822392274747392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100926295909765120 

Maybe the face saving Modi was looking for

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Oscar said:


> We do not have pl-15s.
> The SD-10 is sufficient when paired with the JF-17 to deter any aggression.


Your opponents will take PL-15 as an affirmative...


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## Fawad alam

ARMalik said:


> they never expected Pakistan to *thrash india and openly threaten it!!*


Correct, I think now even Arabs are also stunned.

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## qamar1990

Joe Shearer said:


> The facts are not known. I never take speculative positions on these matters. I will say that we did once there is wreckage to prove it, or aircraft-borne camera shots.


so how many accidents or planes have you guys got shot down yesterday?? what can you confirm?

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## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100780622023454727

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## untitled

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100780622023454727


The MiG 29 crash is from an airshow


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

ARMalik said:


> Ok so now many hours have passed when Pakistan has bashed India. Pakistan downing the indian jets and parading the captured indian pilot was the *front line news here*. Since then, it has been a deafening silence everywhere including India. This points to *two *important things:
> 
> 1- *Everyone is stunned!* Specially India, USA and the West. Note there is *complete silence* f*rom Russia and China *probably pointing to the fact that they knew that india was wrong but they never expected Pakistan to *thrash india and openly threaten it!!*
> 
> 2- It also points to the fact that either things have *started to clam down OR Round-3 is about to start*. I think in round-3, it would be the turn of Pakistan army to flex its muscle. Apparently, they have already done *considerable damage* to India in Sialkot sector, and it will only get worse for india in the next few days if it keeps acting like a Clown.


Reminds me of the 15th July coup in 2016 in Turkey!!!! They thought they would finish off Turkey, once and for all, from inside via traitor terrorists!! And, they had been preparing them for 40 years spending 40b $s!!!! However, the Turkish folks quashed it in 40 hours!!!! Their state of the deafening silence, shock, bewilderment etc. were eerily similar to their current one vis-à-vis Pak!!!! One nation two states....

Turkey has never looked back since July 15, 2016....

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## khanasifm

Su-30 ?? Engine nozzle seems to be of Su??

Sorry mixed mi-17 picture so ignore zp serial number but engine nozzle one is of iaf brought down by paf


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100948198040965121

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## I.R.A

khanasifm said:


> Su-30 ?? Engine nozzle seems to be of Su??



Isn't it a chopper? ZP?


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## Bilal Khan 777

AsianUnion said:


> Source Newyork times: Here is the confirmation of second jet which was destroyed and fell in Indian Occupied Kashmir:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian soldiers near the remains of an Indian aircraft after it shot down and crashed on Wednesday 2/27/2019.



This looks like a Helo wreckage to me, as the pilot burned body is typical of a crashed Helo.

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## khanasifm

There were two one mi-17 which is nothing to do with paf and other an aircraft shot down, the nozzle Pic is of an aircraft

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## khanasifm



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## IFB

MEA has gone on record saying india shot down a "pakistani fighter aircraft" did not say it as F16...media here is saying bison shot F16...so now Modi ji has to prove to indian's they actually shot some enemy aircraft...pakistan has said none of their fighter has been shot down...so someone has been "misinforming" their side of the story...and dont know about the other side...but slowly people will ask to prove MEA's side of the story...dont know what will happen but modi is not recovering from this...he has given a huge opening for the opposition to **** him up in media campaign...congress will twist and turn facts even when he is in the right...already some media are debating why we sent this cold war era plane to fight....is india so poor that they have to keep using a 40 year old junk etc...the opposition will strangle modi by the neck if what MEA said cant be proven in coming days.

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## I.R.A

IFB said:


> already some media are debating why we sent this cold war era plane to fight....is india so poor that they have to keep using a 40 year old junk etc...the opposition will strangle modi by the neck if what MEA said cant be proven in coming days.



If there is a next time, please ask indian media to be present in the war strategy room and make sure all your military personnel present there pay close heed to indian media's advice and strategy.

You could have sent whatever you want ........ how much different the situation could have been? Isn't it better to focus on the present situation and work for release of your wing commander? Or appropriate jet that should have been used matters most?

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## SrNair

Indus Pakistan said:


> Are you drunk? We have multiple proof we shot down IAF jets.
> 
> 
> Pilot
> wreckage
> What's your proof? Modi's fart's. Sorry but India got fcuked. Hard. This time and I have followed international media. That is the theme.
> 
> This is our proof?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF fighter jet crashes in Central Kashmir Budgam, 2 pilots feared dead. We dispatched these two first class to get a wash in Ganga.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one was captured by us. And is now learning how to use toilets for the first time in his life.


Check your own officials statements.



lonelyman said:


> Where is the proof you shot f16? Ridiculous
> 
> Learn to accept defeat



Your own official said .
We have lost only one jet ,Mig 21 .
So what was the next one ? And our ground forces saw everything


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## Imran Khan

SrNair said:


> Check your own officials statements.
> 
> 
> 
> Your own official said .
> We have lost only one jet ,Mig 21 .
> So what was the next one ? And our ground forces saw everything


Rehny de beta modi ne watt lagwa di india ki

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## Bilal Khan 777

Certain observations:

a. Yesterday was a tough day for IAF, and a worse day for the India fans and posters here. Give them some credit. The ones still posting are facing severe embarrassment of what has happened. I dont wish anyone to take their place.

b. Boys, whats with the abuse and name calling? Your PAF won the air battle yesterday. Be proud, and rise above the petty nonsense. Dont reduce yourself down to a level of abuse and name calling. Indians will try to spin, instigate, and talk BS. Let them. They have to get up in the morning and look at the mirror, and that should be good enough.

c. Abhi's accent showed he was South Indian, so now its confirmed he is from Madras. In his interview, he said his religion is Sikh, but that must be SOP to gain some sympathy in Pakistan after ejection. I also heard the media accounts of his apprehension by the locals, and feel bad that the collective anger of years of Indian atrocities on both sides of Kashmir was taken out on him. I am happy that the PA SAR team was able to reach him on time and rescue him and other pilots who ejected. The pilot has obviously had a rough ejection, and a rougher landing in hostile area, but he put up a brave face on camera and with the soldiers he has trained all his life to hate and kill. Bravo to his trainers for training a good soldier. I wish for him to recover from his injuries and return to his country in due time.

d. As it is now official policy, we are to not talk about any "other" pilots. Just let this one go, as this will make you really proud of what is to come.

e. As in all such times, the Pakistani Nation came together on one page, the military, the government, and even the opposition. Though, i still await a note of apology from many young boys who premature hurled abuses at me on the relevant thread after the "surgical" strike for defending PAF and showing my pride. Where are you now?

Some Strategic Points:
a. IAF will go in a reverse calculation of strategy and may try to take a short term score....next 48 hours are critical.

b. The Mig-21 Bison upgrade by the Israelis and the AEW matrix has been invalidated by the JF17 development, and superior PAF tactics and strategy, BVR and SOW capability, fully integrated C4I, and extensive planning of PAF. These aircraft of IAF may now be sent to the scrap heap, and they may now review on what real capability is, let alone aircraft serviceability and weapon / sensor / CFD effectiveness against JF17.

c. If Indian government does not lick its wounds, and try again the Kargil strategy: try to delay the election and extend the action. Their next move may come to take an air score from the South Sector, like to approach a soft target such as a Navy Plane as they did before. I am sure AOC Southern Command and COMPAK are well versed with such Air to Air scenarios, is well prepared, and can give India a bloody nose with his current assets and team.

d. India will also try to move their flotilla and claim "sea blockade" of Pakistan. I am sure the sharks are already out and holding station to ensure they don't dare. With the demonstrated C802 and JF17 capability at Masroor and Bolari, Indians be real foolish to send their surface ships towards Karachi.

e. JF17 stands out to win the show here, and to all the skeptics who for years had doubts about this single engine beast, I hope your concerns are addressed.

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## IFB

I.R.A said:


> You could have sent whatever you want ........ how much different the situation could have been? Isn't it better to focus on the present situation and work for release of your wing commander? Or appropriate jet that should have been used matters most?



I am just an aam aadhmi like most indian members here...people who run this country dont care what aam aadhmi like me think...are they trying to get the pilot back ? or are they planning some retaliation ? i would honestly not know...but in 2019 if any country used such junk on the front line...it deserves to be called out...named and shamed...the media has a point.

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## Signalian

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> c. If Indian government does not lick its wounds, and try again the Kargil strategy: try to delay the election and extend the action. Their next move may come to take an air score from the South Sector, like to approach a soft target such as a Navy Plane as they did before. I am sure AOC Southern Command and COMPAK are well versed with such Air to Air scenarios, is well prepared, and can give India a bloody nose with his current assets and team.


PAF placement of 19 Sqd at Bholari and 5 Sqd at Jacoabad makes sense to cover the south eastern end.

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## HRK

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100780622023454727


its an video of PAF song/ promotional video in which clip of MiG-29 is added

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## I.R.A

IFB said:


> I am just an aam aadhmi like most indian members here...people who run this country dont care what aam aadhmi like me think...are they trying to get the pilot back ? or are they planning some retaliation ? i would honestly not know...but in 2019 if any country used such junk on the front line...it deserves to be called out...named and shamed...the media has a point.



If you have missed .......... modi is ruling all the aam admis like you. He has put this region's peace on stake to rule aam admis like you, your media so vehemently beats the war drum to influence and provoke views and opinions of aam admis like you ......... if you ask me all you aam admis of india are responsible for this. You ignorant extremist sadistic intolerant sons of aam admis.

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## MultaniGuy

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Certain observations:
> 
> a. Yesterday was a tough day for IAF, and a worse day for the India fans and posters here. Give them some credit. The ones still posting are facing severe embarrassment of what has happened. I dont wish anyone to take their place.
> 
> b. Boys, whats with the abuse and name calling? Your PAF won the air battle yesterday. Be proud, and rise above the petty nonsense. Dont reduce yourself down to a level of abuse and name calling. Indians will try to spin, instigate, and talk BS. Let them. They have to get up in the morning and look at the mirror, and that should be good enough.
> 
> c. Abhi's accent showed he was South Indian, so now its confirmed he is from Madras. In his interview, he said his religion is Sikh, but that must be SOP to gain some sympathy in Pakistan after ejection. I also heard the media accounts of his apprehension by the locals, and feel bad that the collective anger of years of Indian atrocities on both sides of Kashmir was taken out on him. I am happy that the PA SAR team was able to reach him on time and rescue him and other pilots who ejected. The pilot has obviously had a rough ejection, and a rougher landing in hostile area, but he put up a brave face on camera and with the soldiers he has trained all his life to hate and kill. Bravo to his trainers for training a good soldier. I wish for him to recover from his injuries and return to his country in due time.
> 
> d. As it is now official policy, we are to not talk about any "other" pilots. Just let this one go, as this will make you really proud of what is to come.
> 
> e. As in all such times, the Pakistani Nation came together on one page, the military, the government, and even the opposition. Though, i still await a note of apology from many young boys who premature hurled abuses at me on the relevant thread after the "surgical" strike for defending PAF and showing my pride. Where are you now?
> 
> Some Strategic Points:
> a. IAF will go in a reverse calculation of strategy and may try to take a short term score....next 48 hours are critical.
> 
> b. The Mig-21 Bison upgrade by the Israelis and the AEW matrix has been invalidated by the JF17 development, and superior PAF tactics and strategy, BVR and SOW capability, fully integrated C4I, and extensive planning of PAF. These aircraft of IAF may now be sent to the scrap heap, and they may now review on what real capability is, let alone aircraft serviceability and weapon / sensor / CFD effectiveness against JF17.
> 
> c. If Indian government does not lick its wounds, and try again the Kargil strategy: try to delay the election and extend the action. Their next move may come to take an air score from the South Sector, like to approach a soft target such as a Navy Plane as they did before. I am sure AOC Southern Command and COMPAK are well versed with such Air to Air scenarios, is well prepared, and can give India a bloody nose with his current assets and team.
> 
> d. India will also try to move their flotilla and claim "sea blockade" of Pakistan. I am sure the sharks are already out and holding station to ensure they don't dare. With the demonstrated C802 and JF17 capability at Masroor and Bolari, Indians be real foolish to send their surface ships towards Karachi.
> 
> e. JF17 stands out to win the show here, and to all the skeptics who for years had doubts about this single engine beast, I hope your concerns are addressed.


Rightly said bhai, we must be proud of our trophy of the Indian Air force pilot.

A job well done.


----------



## Śakra

Michael Corleone said:


> did @Śakra get shot down? are you avhinandhan?



On a discord channel atm. Much better quality discussion.


----------



## Falcon26

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Certain observations:
> 
> a. Yesterday was a tough day for IAF, and a worse day for the India fans and posters here. Give them some credit. The ones still posting are facing severe embarrassment of what has happened. I dont wish anyone to take their place.
> 
> b. Boys, whats with the abuse and name calling? Your PAF won the air battle yesterday. Be proud, and rise above the petty nonsense. Dont reduce yourself down to a level of abuse and name calling. Indians will try to spin, instigate, and talk BS. Let them. They have to get up in the morning and look at the mirror, and that should be good enough.
> 
> c. Abhi's accent showed he was South Indian, so now its confirmed he is from Madras. In his interview, he said his religion is Sikh, but that must be SOP to gain some sympathy in Pakistan after ejection. I also heard the media accounts of his apprehension by the locals, and feel bad that the collective anger of years of Indian atrocities on both sides of Kashmir was taken out on him. I am happy that the PA SAR team was able to reach him on time and rescue him and other pilots who ejected. The pilot has obviously had a rough ejection, and a rougher landing in hostile area, but he put up a brave face on camera and with the soldiers he has trained all his life to hate and kill. Bravo to his trainers for training a good soldier. I wish for him to recover from his injuries and return to his country in due time.
> 
> d. As it is now official policy, we are to not talk about any "other" pilots. Just let this one go, as this will make you really proud of what is to come.
> 
> e. As in all such times, the Pakistani Nation came together on one page, the military, the government, and even the opposition. Though, i still await a note of apology from many young boys who premature hurled abuses at me on the relevant thread after the "surgical" strike for defending PAF and showing my pride. Where are you now?
> 
> Some Strategic Points:
> a. IAF will go in a reverse calculation of strategy and may try to take a short term score....next 48 hours are critical.
> 
> b. The Mig-21 Bison upgrade by the Israelis and the AEW matrix has been invalidated by the JF17 development, and superior PAF tactics and strategy, BVR and SOW capability, fully integrated C4I, and extensive planning of PAF. These aircraft of IAF may now be sent to the scrap heap, and they may now review on what real capability is, let alone aircraft serviceability and weapon / sensor / CFD effectiveness against JF17.
> 
> c. If Indian government does not lick its wounds, and try again the Kargil strategy: try to delay the election and extend the action. Their next move may come to take an air score from the South Sector, like to approach a soft target such as a Navy Plane as they did before. I am sure AOC Southern Command and COMPAK are well versed with such Air to Air scenarios, is well prepared, and can give India a bloody nose with his current assets and team.
> 
> d. India will also try to move their flotilla and claim "sea blockade" of Pakistan. I am sure the sharks are already out and holding station to ensure they don't dare. With the demonstrated C802 and JF17 capability at Masroor and Bolari, Indians be real foolish to send their surface ships towards Karachi.
> 
> e. JF17 stands out to win the show here, and to all the skeptics who for years had doubts about this single engine beast, I hope your concerns are addressed.



Lovely post

No excuses for the insults against you or any other member but I think some were understandably frustrated that IAF planes got into Pakistani air space and left without consequences.

I have always said and I will say here again that PAF might be outnumbered but it will not be easy to outclass it. Every aviation enthusiast knows this.

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## Skies

Yes, they also treated well to Mujib ur Rahaman and Sk. Hasian in 71.


----------



## IFB

I.R.A said:


> If you have missed .......... modi is ruling all the aam admis like you. He has put this region's peace on stake to rule aam admis like you, your media so vehemently beats the war drum to influence and provoke views and opinions of aam admis like you ......... if you ask me all you aam admis of india are responsible for this. You ignorant extremist sadistic intolerant sons of aam admis.



It goes both ways...what i said rings true for the aam aadhmi on the other side of the border as well.


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## Black_cats

Did Pakistan lost F-16 while engaging MiG-21? How many jets of India were shot down 1 or 2?


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## Imran Khan

Black_cats said:


> Did Pakistan lost F-16 while engaging MiG-21? How many jets of India were shot down 1 or 2?


f-16 is their dream and wish .may be they have shot down US or UAE f-16


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## AndrewJin

Another staged surgika strika of hindu style?

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## I.R.A

IFB said:


> It goes both ways...what i said rings true for the aam aadhmi on the other side of the border as well.



Aam admi here wasn't baying for indian blood. The difference. Aam admi here has seen the war for last 15 years and knows how ugly it looks like, Aam admi here is not afraid of death ..... the difference.

Please don't try equating your aam admi with us. We are two very different people proven time and again.

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## Black_cats

Imran Khan said:


> f-16 is their dream and wish .may be they have shot down US or UAE f-16


 
Then which jet Pakistan lost? Did Pakistan mistakenly identified his own jet as the 2nd Indian jet that was shot down?


----------



## rott

AndrewJin said:


> Another staged surgika strika of hindu style?


Yea and this time they got owned.

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## Imran Khan

Black_cats said:


> Then which jet Pakistan lost? Did Pakistan mistakenly identified his own jet as the 2nd Indian jet that was shot down?


Pakistan claimed another one fall down in IOK . and Indians claim that was mi-17 crashed . we have no access in IOK to confirm dear . none of Pakistani jet was shot down .i think PAF shot down that MI-17 with BVR missile . otherwise why on same time same hour a chopper also crashed ? remember it was down some 60km from LOC inside IOK 

pics and videos from IOK

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## rott

Imran Khan said:


> Pakistan claimed another one fall down in IOK . and Indians claim that was mi-17 crashed . we have no access in IOK to confirm dear . none of Pakistani jet was shot down .i think PAF shot down that MI-17 with BVR missile . otherwise why on same time same hour a chopper also crashed ?
> 
> pics and videos from IOK


If it was a Mi17 crash there should be atleast 5 to 6 bodies. Where are the bodies?


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## Imran Khan

rott said:


> If it was a Mi17 crash there should be atleast 5 to 6 bodies. Where are the bodies?


bodies burning can bee seen in another videos they are so graphic i can not post full


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## rott

Imran Khan said:


> bodies burning can bee seen in another videos they are so graphic i can not post full


Yes, I saw that video. The picture in your previous post, is it a Mi17?


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## N.Siddiqui

rott said:


> If it was a Mi17 crash there should be atleast 5 to 6 bodies. Where are the bodies?



Indian media has reported this, NDTV is relatively independent. Most of the Indian media is actually BJP media cells, controlled by the BJP, and the establishment. 

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mil...m-two-bodies-found-says-police-report-1999950

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## Imran Khan

rott said:


> Yes, I saw that video. The picture in your previous post, is it a Mi17?


yes it is as per my understanding PAF shot it down by mistook him a fighter jet . Pakistani pilot thinks hey look another one coming from low level and kaboom sd-10 on it  .mi-17 was on wrong time at wrong place

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Certain observations:
> 
> a. Yesterday was a tough day for IAF, and a worse day for the India fans and posters here. Give them some credit. The ones still posting are facing severe embarrassment of what has happened. I dont wish anyone to take their place.
> 
> b. Boys, whats with the abuse and name calling? Your PAF won the air battle yesterday. Be proud, and rise above the petty nonsense. Dont reduce yourself down to a level of abuse and name calling. Indians will try to spin, instigate, and talk BS. Let them. They have to get up in the morning and look at the mirror, and that should be good enough.
> 
> c. Abhi's accent showed he was South Indian, so now its confirmed he is from Madras. In his interview, he said his religion is Sikh, but that must be SOP to gain some sympathy in Pakistan after ejection. I also heard the media accounts of his apprehension by the locals, and feel bad that the collective anger of years of Indian atrocities on both sides of Kashmir was taken out on him. I am happy that the PA SAR team was able to reach him on time and rescue him and other pilots who ejected. The pilot has obviously had a rough ejection, and a rougher landing in hostile area, but he put up a brave face on camera and with the soldiers he has trained all his life to hate and kill. Bravo to his trainers for training a good soldier. I wish for him to recover from his injuries and return to his country in due time.
> 
> d. As it is now official policy, we are to not talk about any "other" pilots. Just let this one go, as this will make you really proud of what is to come.
> 
> e. As in all such times, the Pakistani Nation came together on one page, the military, the government, and even the opposition. Though, i still await a note of apology from many young boys who premature hurled abuses at me on the relevant thread after the "surgical" strike for defending PAF and showing my pride. Where are you now?
> 
> Some Strategic Points:
> a. IAF will go in a reverse calculation of strategy and may try to take a short term score....next 48 hours are critical.
> 
> b. The Mig-21 Bison upgrade by the Israelis and the AEW matrix has been invalidated by the JF17 development, and superior PAF tactics and strategy, BVR and SOW capability, fully integrated C4I, and extensive planning of PAF. These aircraft of IAF may now be sent to the scrap heap, and they may now review on what real capability is, let alone aircraft serviceability and weapon / sensor / CFD effectiveness against JF17.
> 
> c. If Indian government does not lick its wounds, and try again the Kargil strategy: try to delay the election and extend the action. Their next move may come to take an air score from the South Sector, like to approach a soft target such as a Navy Plane as they did before. I am sure AOC Southern Command and COMPAK are well versed with such Air to Air scenarios, is well prepared, and can give India a bloody nose with his current assets and team.
> 
> d. India will also try to move their flotilla and claim "sea blockade" of Pakistan. I am sure the sharks are already out and holding station to ensure they don't dare. With the demonstrated C802 and JF17 capability at Masroor and Bolari, Indians be real foolish to send their surface ships towards Karachi.
> 
> e. JF17 stands out to win the show here, and to all the skeptics who for years had doubts about this single engine beast, I hope your concerns are addressed.


Tebrik-ler Pasham!!!

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## IFB

I.R.A said:


> Aam admi here wasn't baying for indian blood. The difference. Aam admi here has seen the war for last 15 years and knows how ugly it looks like, Aam admi here is not afraid of death ..... the difference.
> 
> Please don't try equating your aam admi with us. We are two very different people proven time and again.



Yeah like your tribal area aam aadhmi getting killed by american drones in their own homes had any say...please stop this rhetoric and blindly supporting the powers that be on your side...they are no different from the buffoons on this side.


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Śakra said:


> On a discord channel atm. Much better quality discussion.


What discord servers?

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## Ultima Thule

RPK said:


> One F16 Down friendly fire most probably from ground


First down by IAF and this, why are you always face saving mode, as per DGISPR no F-16 were for these Ops @RPK 


arbit said:


> Peace was cheap. All you had to do was to shut terror camps and ensure no radicalisation took place against India. Your establishment chose not to do it. The suicide bomber that took 40 lives was trained in Balakot.
> 
> Peace is good. Who wants to die in war and screw the economy but then there is a time and place for everything.


And what the proof that so Called Terrorist came from Balakot and did Pulwama attack, it from a local freedom struggle and if these terrorist came from Pakistan, What is your Mehan IA is doing on LOC, you all big incidents were dramatize by RAW and to propagandize against Pakistan @arbit 


RPK said:


>


What this pic proves, Nothing @RPK 


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 542421
> View attachment 542423
> View attachment 542424
> View attachment 542425
> View attachment 542426
> View attachment 542427
> View attachment 542428
> View attachment 542429
> View attachment 542431
> View attachment 542432
> View attachment 542433


I think its a Mig-29, look at the vertical tail @DESERT FIGHTER


CHACHA"G" said:


> *Above are 2 pics for aircraft down in Pakistan ……. Pleas help me out here are those 2 engine backs(tails, exhaust) *
> @Windjammer , @HRK , @DESERT FIGHTER , @Path-Finder , @graphican , @


MIG 29 look at the vertical tail @CHACHA"G"


Sneaker said:


> Humiliation for what? Bombing Balakot? or crashing over P0K?


 Humiilited for 2 jets + 2 pilots @Sneaker 


arbit said:


> Damn right.
> By the way the Pakistani jet shot down was indeed F-16. Confirmed.


 why you're so humiliated, If F-16 was down where is wreck of it @arbit 


arbit said:


> information not online.
> Has Pakistan issued any statement on downed jet, what it was?


More humiliation, we need a proof not your wording, why you're face saving mode @arbit 


AyanRay said:


> Again stop this crap about confusion. Some locals might have found the injured PAF pilot and admitted him to a nearby hospital. Thinking that he is a IAF pilot, PA started celebrating. There were fairly confirmed news coming out that an F-16 crashed near the LAM valley. It could be a case of friendly fire,. But one thing is sure, both IAF and PAF lost a jet each today.


 face saving mode @AyanRay 


Sneaker said:


> There is a fourth version.. it is a PAF jet.





Sneaker said:


> Just repeating the Indian emblem.. Satyameva jayate.. Truth will prevail.


more humiliation without a proof


Sneaker said:


> That news came long before news of downing Mig..
> 
> 
> 
> You possible have the "second pilot" as well.


You mental disease has no cure @Sneaker 


randomradio said:


> You confirming it is good enough for anybody.
> 
> So they took down our Mig-21 in exchange for us taking down their F-16.
> 
> And the F-16 was downed by a Mig-21, while the Mig-21 was downed by ground fire.
> 
> Considering they have paraded our pilot for the world to see, we will get him back in one piece eventually.
> 
> Good exchange in our favour.


More humiliations/ face saving, you have no proof that F-16 was down, as per DGISPR there were no F-16 that took those ops in either air to air combat or ground strikes @randomradio 


Sneaker said:


> What they actually showed us is not to attack head on when there is red alert.. we engaged them long before they came near border and paf had to lose their jet and turn back. Even though we lost a jet as well, whole engagement took place outside our border.


Why don't you accept your loss, 2 jets 3 pilots and no PAF jets was lost, if you have proof show it to us, we don't believe your wordings, at least show us some staments from your defense ministry/IAF @Sneaker 


drunken-monke said:


> https://www.republicworld.com/india...indis-attempt-to-intrude-into-indias-airspace
> 
> Not sure about credibility of source..
> 
> Video shows Su30 shooting down F16 ( as claimed)


Not shooting but intercepting are you blind and what is proof that those jets are MKI/F-16 @drunken-monke 


Sneaker said:


> We know. We didn't let you. We crossed the border and engaged paf when they were detected. No SUs were lost. 1 mig 1 paf JF/F16 were downed today.


Why you always live in your delusional, we want proof not your wording @Sneaker 


Sneaker said:


> OK.. I am going to leave this topic here. I know this is a wound that still hasn't healed in pakistan's psyche, if it can be healed at all. It is OoT anyway.


@waz @The Eagle @Horus please ban this troll from PDF he is blabbering without a proof

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## I.R.A

IFB said:


> Yeah like your tribal area aam aadhmi getting killed by american drones in their own homes had any say...please stop this rhetoric and blindly supporting the powers that be on your side...they are no different from the buffoons on this side.



Seriously which world do you indians live in? If you missed it my today's opening post here is reflective of how direly I wish peace and stability for this region. Our DG ISPR and our PM are on record, watch their video messages and learn something. War on terror and drones are a thing of recent past it wasn't our Tribals only the whole of Pakistan suffered at hands of it. And I hope you don't take us some aam fools like you who don't know who was behind all that.

Please don't try provoking my other side ........... just accept our gesture of peace and don't mistake it as our weakness, we haven't forgotten who killed our children ..... your aam admi may be a phattu who gets exploited again and again on mere Pakistan bashing, we on the other hand in our normal peaceful lives don't give a damn about india or its aam admi .... and be assured if the time comes you will see our aam admi standing on the front facing your bullets. We are not you. How hard is that to understand?

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## RPK

pakistanipower said:


> First down by IAF and this, why are you always face saving mode, as per DGISPR no F-16 were for these Ops @RPK


As per MEA one PAF fighter jet shot down. so it proves my claim.


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## ProudPak

RPK said:


> As per MEA one PAF fighter jet shot down. so it proves my claim.


Where is the jet? Even your shameless media is asking for proof. Yet you still spewing the same rubbish.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100860713009057792

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## WAQAS119

Wreckage of the 2nd Indian fighter jet fell inside the IOK shot down by Pakistan Air Force. Kashmiris chanting "Pakistan Zindabad"






__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## mohsen

So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".

A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?

The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.

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## ProudPak

The cricket war could go nuclear


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## RPK

WAQAS119 said:


> Wreckage of the 2nd Indian fighter jet fell inside the IOK shot down by Pakistan Air Force. Kashmiris chanting "Pakistan Zindabad"


MI-17



ProudPak said:


> Where is the jet? Even your shameless media is asking for proof. Yet you still spewing the same rubbish.


Where are not Pakistan to expose everything.

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## Hareeb

Morale of Indian army:





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2318582778370873

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## Bilal Khan 777

mohsen said:


> So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".
> 
> A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?
> 
> The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.



Kindly don't jump to conclusions. Sometimes information is stopped or changed for some reason, which can either be understood or debated on online forums. These are matters of National Security. India first claimed that all aircraft are accounted for, only to then retract that one aircraft has not returned. It is not our goal to further embarrass India and to escalate, otherwise we can show Gun Camera footage of our complete "capability" from Rajauri sector.

I hope that IAF leadership will now decline to become a a further tool of Indian government's re-election campaign.

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## Tps43

mohsen said:


> So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".
> 
> A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?
> 
> The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.


2 are in cmh


mohsen said:


> So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".
> 
> A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?
> 
> The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.


2 others are under treatment in hospital and do share the down Pakistani ac pics if u have bcz indians can’t find any of thoes maybe iranians got them

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## Bilal Khan 777

RPK said:


> MI-17
> 
> 
> Where are not Pakistan to expose everything.



I acknowledge that one crash is the HiP. What about the second one?

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## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> 2 are in cmh


**** bat ha na sir

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## Tps43

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Kindly don't jump to conclusions. Sometimes information is stopped or changed for some reason, which can either be understood or debated on online forums. These are matters of National Security. India first claimed that all aircraft are accounted for, only to then retract that one aircraft has not returned. It is not our goal to further embarrass India and to escalate, otherwise we can show Gun Camera footage of our complete "capability" from Rajauri sector.


Sir jee he is anti Pakistani I know quite well of his type. Btw I am hearing we had more then 2 kills

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## Great Janjua

mohsen said:


> So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".
> 
> A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?
> 
> The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.


First off all the claim off shooting down a pakistani aircraft by Indian side is based on ground troops visual so no concrete evidence,Second point if India says they shot down one pakistani aircraft then the pilot off the backup aircraft that was with the mig 21 should come forward and say yes indeed that they shot down a Pakistani aircraft well obviously he can't because the second aircraft was shot down as well,And don't say India deployed one aircraft too deal with pakistani strikes that's just dumb

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## Bilal Khan 777

Tps43 said:


> Sir jee he is anti Pakistani I know quite well of his type. Btw I am hearing we had more then 2 kills



Affirmative. The most beautiful one is BVR kill for the escaping Su. I hope you have also seen the wreckage coming down in flames as capture by a civilian. 

It was a proud day for Pilots and Ground / Air Controllers. But lets keep that for Asif Ghafoor to release.

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## AMG_12

RPK said:


> MI-17
> 
> 
> Where are not Pakistan to expose everything.


Honestly, in Pakistan nothing hides away from the public in broad daylight. If an F-16 really crashed, someone would've said a word or two about it. But whatever floats your boat. Come with a proof and I'll be the first one to support your claim. You guys can brag about it but it's not going to change the fact that two of your planes were shot down and surgical strikes conducted in your sovereign territory + a pilot in our custody (all with enough proofs from both government & public sources)

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## Khatri_pune

Tps43 said:


> 2 are in cmh
> 
> 2 others are under treatment in hospital and do share the down Pakistani ac pics if u have bcz indians can’t find any of thoes maybe iranians got them



HA ...HA....HA.... Pakistan would have paraded them also if captured really....

But its simple to understand "if GOI says it its all propaganda and falls... But if DGISPR says it... it must be true.."


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## Tps43

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Affirmative. It was a proud day for Pilots and Ground / Air Controllers. But lets keep that for Asif Ghafoor to release.


Definitely yes these type of days doesn’t come in decades. Asif Ghafoor has job to do

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## Bilal Khan 777

Great Janjua said:


> First off all the claim off shooting down a plane by Indian side is based on ground troops visual so no concrete evidence,Second point if India says they shot down one pakistani aircraft then the pilot off the backup aircraft that was with the mig 21 should come forward and say yes indeed that they shot down a Pakistani aircraft well obviously he can't because the second aircraft was shot down as well,And don't say India deployed one aircraft too deal with pakistani strikes that's just dumb



Indian MOUs of their ADGE on the LOC, who saw their own Mig-21 getting shot down have reported a Pakistani F16 being killed. This is the skill level of their Air Defense during daytime.

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## mohsen

Tps43 said:


> Sir jee he is anti Pakistani I know quite well of his type. Btw I am hearing we had more then 2 kills


Yeah, anybody who assess otherwise is anti Pakistani, go get a life.


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## salman-1

If Sqdr leader Hassan shot 1 Mig 21 then who shot the other aircraft said to be Su 30. Which fell on Indian side. And which aircraft shoot it down.

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## Bilal Khan 777

Khatri_pune said:


> HA ...HA....HA.... Pakistan would have paraded them also if captured really....
> 
> But its simple to understand "if GOI says it its all propaganda and falls... But if DGISPR says it... it must be true.."



This is why I classify it as a Rumor and await official confirmation. You can decide to grow up, or should I show you the aircraft wreckage again?

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## Tps43

Khatri_pune said:


> HA ...HA....HA.... Pakistan would have paraded them also if captured really....
> 
> But its simple to understand "if GOI says it its all propaganda and falls... But if DGISPR says it... it must be true.."


We will prade them don’t u worry

GOI is talking without evidence or the best they can do is to record and release short clip from pubg

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## TheDarkKnight

mohsen said:


> So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".
> 
> A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?
> 
> The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.


LoL - some mental gymnastics here to save your friends face here I guess. The Indians are making the claim they should come up with proof.
The correction can mean many things if we speculate:
1) could be dead?
2) could have managed to escape
3) the second jet was in IOK so maybe they were too close to the LOC and we thought they landed on our side but didnt.
There is only unnamed and unsourced Indian eye witness claim of so called Pakistani jet crashing - which Pakistan officially denies - the Indian jets were shot and may have been confused by Indians as their own? 
See without backing of concrete evidence we can speculate in so many directions inconclusively.


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## Sine Nomine

mohsen said:


> So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".
> 
> A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?
> 
> The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.


A question no one would answer but on lighter note we have got few F-16,loss of one cannot be hidden.


----------



## I.R.A

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Indian MOUs of their ADGE on the LOC, who saw their own Mig-21 getting shot down have reported a Pakistani F16 being killed. This is the skill level of their Air Defense during daytime.



Sir g not very long ago they (indians) had spotted UFOs ....... if we were to believe them pulwama to mujay kissi alien ki karwai lagti hy.


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## RPK

Game.Invade said:


> Honestly, in Pakistan nothing hides away from the public in broad daylight. If an F-16 really crashed, someone would've said a word or two about it. But whatever floats your boat. Come with a proof and I'll be the first one to support your claim. You guys can brag about it but it's not going to change the fact that two of your planes were shot down and surgical strikes conducted in your sovereign territory + a pilot in our custody (all with enough proofs from both government & public sources)


I stick with MEA version one PAF fighter jet shotdown. surely they will have radar and AWCAS readout


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## maximuswarrior

Khatri_pune said:


> HA ...HA....HA.... Pakistan would have paraded them also if captured really....
> 
> But its simple to understand "if GOI says it its all propaganda and falls... But if DGISPR says it... it must be true.."



LOL what makes you think we don’t have them? Just because we haven’t paraded them doesn’t mean we don’t have them.

Perhaps we want to keep other two for whatever reason. We won’t reveal their identities LOL

See, you are desperate and confused about the other pilots and that is the way want it to be. We want you to crave for the other pilots LOL


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## Talwar e Pakistan

arbit said:


> Damn right.
> By the way the Pakistani jet shot down was indeed F-16. Confirmed.


Yes you visited the area and confirmed it yourself.


----------



## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> We will prade them don’t u worry
> 
> GOI is talking without evidence or the best they can do is to record and release short clip from pubg


sir how many aircrafts involved in that operation


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## Great Janjua

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Indian MOUs of their ADGE on the LOC, who saw their own Mig-21 getting shot down have reported a Pakistani F16 being killed. This is the skill level of their Air Defense during daytime.


Yes,But if indeed they shot down a Pakistani aircraft the backup aircraft must have escaped as India claims too have lost one aircraft but Indians might say abinandan was lone wolf well no air force in the world allows lone wolf kinda actions against several incoming aircraft that's just absurd.


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## IFB

I.R.A said:


> Seriously which world do you indians live in? If you missed it my today's opening post here is reflective of how direly I wish peace and stability for this region. Our DG ISPR and our PM are on record, watch their video messages and learn something. War on terror and drones are a thing of recent past it wasn't our Tribals only the whole of Pakistan suffered at hands of it. And I hope you don't take us some aam fools like you who don't know who was behind all that.
> 
> Please don't try provoking my other side ........... just accept our gesture of peace and don't mistake it as our weakness, we haven't forgotten who killed our children ..... your aam admi may be a phattu who gets exploited again and again on mere Pakistan bashing, we on the other hand in our normal peaceful lives don't give a damn about india or its aam admi .... and be assured if the time comes you will see our aam admi standing on the front facing your bullets. We are not you. How hard is that to understand?



I could give a point by point rebuttal for everything you posted but at this point in time i dont want to take this any further...moreover whats the point of arguing with you an aam aadhmi just like me ?...our arguments and counter arguments going to have any positive impacts on future course of action by the powers that be on both sides of the border ? do they come and take yours or my permission before they do anything ?...nope.

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## Tps43

mohsen said:


> Yeah, anybody who assess otherwise is anti Pakistani, go get a life.


I got a life but it seems u don’t have and yes u r anti Pakistani of highest order 
هنوز حقوق نگرفتی‌؟

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## Bilal Khan 777

salman-1 said:


> If Sqdr leader Hassan shot 1 Mig 21 then who shot the other aircraft said to be Su 30. Which fell on Indian side. And which aircraft shoot it down.



It is a BVR kill from JF17 supported by SAAB and Blinder in the Air and YLC and MPDR on the ground.

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## Great Janjua

mohsen said:


> Yeah, anybody who assess otherwise is anti Pakistani, go get a life.


Ok stealth fighter qaher 313 you played your part in shooting down our jet well done

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## Tps43

Maxpane said:


> sir how many aircrafts involved in that operation


6 as per my info they were flying in close formation

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## Bilal Khan 777

Tps43 said:


> I got a life but it seems u don’t have and yes u r anti Pakistani of highest order
> هنوز حقوق نگرفتی‌؟



Kindly dont engage in irrelavent talks. Anyone can have any opinion on this forum. Lets respect all.

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## Tps43

Great Janjua said:


> Ok stealth fighter qaher 313 you played your part in shooting down our jet well done


Or the those copied F 5


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## Great Janjua

RPK said:


> I stick with MEA version one PAF fighter jet shotdown. surely they will have radar and AWCAS readout


Your MEA said based on ground reports if one Indian aircraft was shot down ask the second mig pilot to confirm the kill oh wait you can't because they both got shot down.

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## Maxpane

Tps43 said:


> 6 as per my info they were flying in close formation


thank you sir

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## Tps43

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Kindly dont engage in irrelavent talks. Anyone can have any opinion on this forum. Lets respect all.


Sir I know this pal he is here just to troll us so I had to do this


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## Great Janjua

Tps43 said:


> Or the those copied F 5


I hope Iran doesn't annihilate our air force with their *Lethal* machines

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## Tps43

Great Janjua said:


> Your MEA said based on ground reports if one Indian aircraft was shot down ask the second mig pilot to confirm the kill oh wait you can't because they both got shot down.


Or ask the controller to release recordings


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## Great Janjua

Tps43 said:


> Or ask the controller to release recordings


No one believes their bullshit

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## aanshu001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100989039673593856


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## Bilal Khan 777

Great Janjua said:


> Yes,But if indeed they shot down a Pakistani aircraft the backup aircraft must have escaped as India claims too have lost one aircraft but Indians might say abinandan was lone wolf well no air force in the world allows lone wolf kinda actions against several incoming aircraft that's just absurd.



Yes, so either India is lying about the F16 loss, or Pakistan is. Considering the spread of social Media, if an aircraft fell in Lam area, you dont think the videos will already be out? These are populated areas of the Valley. It is absurd for India to make such claims the morning they couldn't stop the Pakistani package, and then lost their aircraft. Their release of F16 being shot confirmed to me that they have bird down, as so is expected from their media wing. Still no statement from their Air Force.

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## Tps43

Great Janjua said:


> I hope Iran doesn't annihilate our air force with their *Lethal* machines


They were jumping up and down over zahedan incident just like indians and threatening Pakistan to attack us with ballastic missiles I mean wth 
Anyway just stay on topic

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## I.R.A

IFB said:


> I could give a point by point rebuttal for everything you posted but at this point in time i dont want to take this any further...moreover whats the point of arguing with you an aam aadhmi just like me ?...our arguments and counter arguments going to have any positive impacts on future course of action by the powers that be on both sides of the border ? do they come and take yours or my permission before they do anything ?...nope.



Well well ......... I thought you were living in the world biggest democracy. Who knew that too got blown.

You can try your rebuttal ....... all I am trying here is to awake your rational side and appealing you to take back charge of your country from a genocidal maniac who is threatening the peace of this whole region. I don't expect much from you ...... but that, you accept the facts and reality and come to terms with it and confront anyone from your side who tries that failed mantra of "We will not talk to Pakistan".

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## Ultima Thule

RPK said:


> As per MEA one PAF fighter jet shot down. so it proves my claim.


Provide a reference/links/pics of your MEA statements if you have, which i believe you don't have, we proof our self right will you prove something, if not please shut the fcuk up @RPK

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## Bilal Khan 777

aanshu001 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100989039673593856



Firstly that is not OC of NLI, secondly that is Engine Cowling of a Mig21 as F16s are not produced so poorly. Shame on you Indian Media.

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## salman-1

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> It is a BVR kill from JF17 supported by SAAB and Blinder in the Air and YLC and MPDR on the ground.


So he shot down both fighters.


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## Tps43

Great Janjua said:


> No one believes their bullshit


Hahahah but all can hear mayday mayday calls hhaha


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## Great Janjua

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Yes, so either India is lying about the F16 loss, or Pakistan is. Considering the spread of social Media, if an aircraft fell in Lam area, you dont think the videos will already be out? These are populated areas of the Valley. It is absurd for India to make such claims the morning they couldn't stop the Pakistani package, and then lost their aircraft. Their release of F16 being shot confirmed to me that they have bird down, as so is expected from their media wing. Still no statement from their Air Force.


If they had shot down a f-16 these penchods would release footage even if the f-16 wreckage fell on mars, Simple they are chatting shit

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## Bilal Khan 777

salman-1 said:


> So he shot down both fighters.



As per our standard SOP, lead took one kill, and his wingman took the other.

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## BERKEKHAN2

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> As per our standard SOP, lead took one kill, and his wingman took the other.


Where is other fighter jet


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## Ultima Thule

Khatri_pune said:


> HA ...HA....HA.... Pakistan would have paraded them also if captured really....
> 
> But its simple to understand "if GOI says it its all propaganda and falls... But if DGISPR says it... it must be true.."


We proove everything you're not proving a single evidence to us, we want proof not your wording @Khatri_pune


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## mshan44



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## Great Janjua

aanshu001 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100989039673593856


Indian aircraft wreckage I don't think you guys have any brain cells left anymore


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## PurpleButcher

What i Fear will be the narrative in coming weeks

a) Wing Commander will be released.
b) On his return to India, he will be taken by IAF personnel and RAW for a debriefing
c) He will have a press conference
d) He will say ," I engaged an intruding F-16 and shot it myself, on my return due to a technical problem with the bison, I crash landed plane in a manner to avoid civilian casualties. Jay Hind!"

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## qamar1990

what is this video guys?


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## Rashid Mahmood



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## salman-1

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> As per our standard SOP, lead took one kill, and his wingman took the other.


Why not he is being shown for a proven kill. Which other aircraft was that. Su 30 or MIG 21


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## Thorough Pro

Don't expect this maturity from the mob that posts military movement info on social media.
All social media should be totally blocked during hostilities, no inadvertent info leakage, no rumors, no cellphone videos of events that should not be made public.



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Kindly don't jump to conclusions. Sometimes information is stopped or changed for some reason, which can either be understood or debated on online forums. These are matters of National Security. India first claimed that all aircraft are accounted for, only to then retract that one aircraft has not returned. It is not our goal to further embarrass India and to escalate, otherwise we can show Gun Camera footage of our complete "capability" from Rajauri sector.
> 
> I hope that IAF leadership will now decline to become a a further tool of Indian government's re-election campaign.

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## Bilal Khan 777

Storm bombardier said:


> Where is other fighter jet



You have occupied Kashmir with 600,000 soldiers. Why don't you tell us where is the burning wreck of your pride and joy? We could only record its burning wreck coming down.

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## maximuswarrior

ARMalik said:


> Ok so now many hours have passed when Pakistan has bashed India. Pakistan downing the indian jets and parading the captured indian pilot was the *front line news here*. Since then, it has been a deafening silence everywhere including India. This points to *two *important things:
> 
> 1- *Everyone is stunned!* Specially India, USA and the West. Note there is *complete silence* f*rom Russia and China *probably pointing to the fact that they knew that india was wrong but they never expected Pakistan to *thrash india and openly threaten it!!*
> 
> 2- It also points to the fact that either things have *started to clam down OR Round-3 is about to start*. I think in round-3, it would be the turn of Pakistan army to flex its muscle. Apparently, they have already done *considerable damage* to India in Sialkot sector, and it will only get worse for india in the next few days if it keeps acting like a Clown.



Round 3 Pakistan should break Indian neck. Just let them come and react when necessary. After humiliating India by shooting down their fighters and capturing their pilots we got nothing to prove.



Storm bombardier said:


> Where is other fighter jet



Let’s first talk about the one we shot down and captured your pilot...

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## BERKEKHAN2

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> You have occupied Kashmir with 600,000 soldiers. Why don't you tell us where is the burning wreck of your pride and joy? We could only record its burning wreck coming down.


Both sides are claiming it to be enemy jet 
I think it's was a UFO


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## Great Janjua

qamar1990 said:


> what is this video guys?


I see no aircraft being shot down

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## Bilal Khan 777

PurpleButcher said:


> What i Fear will be the narrative in coming weeks
> 
> a) Wing Commander will be released.
> b) On his return to India, he will be taken by IAF personnel and RAW for a debriefing
> c) He will have a press conference
> d) He will say ," I engaged an intruding F-16 and shot it myself, on my return due to a technical problem with the bison, I crash landed plane in a manner to avoid civilian casualties. Jay Hind!"



The problem is that there is a flight recorder on the aircraft that is now with Pakistan.



Storm bombardier said:


> Both sides are claiming it to be enemy jet
> I think it's was a UFO



Bravo Zulu to your sense of humor at this moment that you are all facing.

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## BERKEKHAN2

maximuswarrior said:


> Round 3 Pakistan should break Indian neck. Just let them come and react when necessary. After humiliating India by shooting down their fighters and capturing their pilots we got nothing to prove.
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s first talk about the one we shot down and captured your pilot...


So you agree it was only one jet shot not 2 [emoji23]


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## salman-1

qamar1990 said:


> what is this video guys?


This doesn't prove shit. It's the video of thier hit Mig. Taken by the locals.


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## maximuswarrior

Great Janjua said:


> I see no aircraft being shot down



Indians are masters of fabricating lies.

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## mshan44

qamar1990 said:


> what is this video guys?


this is jf 17 spanking their sukhoi 30 lol

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## gambit

patriotpakistan said:


> Lol, Pakistan will do what* IT* determines to be in its interest. I don't think an american has the weight to open his mouth on a forum and use words like "will" to create a dramatic effect. You don't have the weight to throw around like you think you do.


And what interests are there to Pakistan to torture the Indians, eh? Have you not learned the lessons of Gitmo where it turned the US inside out, shamed a presidency, the tainted the entire country? I speak on this issue from the perspective of a veteran, someone who made out his will before deployments, stood next to a live nuclear bomb, and graduated from SERE. What have you done?

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## maximuswarrior

Storm bombardier said:


> So you agree it was only one jet shot not 2 [emoji23]



Everyone knows the other jet imploded in Indian occupied Kashmir. Your own media has covered this extensively.

Look man, you got humiliated and owned. One, two or three doesn’t matter. They are just numbers.

LOL only a fool would be discussing about the other pilots and fighter jet after so much humiliation.

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## Great Janjua

salman-1 said:


> This doesn't prove shit. It's the video of thier hit Mig. Taken by the locals.


The actual video off their second aircraft engulfed in flames was captured by pakistani locals. It is on PDF frankly I can't do the digging for ganges dwellers


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## The Accountant

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Affirmative. The most beautiful one is BVR kill for the escaping Su. I hope you have also seen the wreckage coming down in flames as capture by a civilian.
> 
> It was a proud day for Pilots and Ground / Air Controllers. But lets keep that for Asif Ghafoor to release.


Do we have confirmation of Su?


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## Bilal Khan 777

qamar1990 said:


> what is this video guys?



Shameful, they show the video of their own aircraft being taken as F16 being shot down.

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## BERKEKHAN2

maximuswarrior said:


> Everyone knows the other jet imploded in Indian occupied Kashmir. Your own media has covered this extensively.
> 
> Look man, you got humiliated and owned. One, two or three doesn’t matter. They are just numbers.


Even you are confused about what you did
Get some clarity first


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## PurpleButcher

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> The problem is that there is a flight recorder on the aircraft that is now with Pakistan.


Can't it be discarded by Indian media as pure propaganda. After all they are the experts in twisting facts, they can convert 4 tress and 1 crow into 350 Terrorists. Don't under estimate their propaganda machine!!!

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## Thorough Pro

why are you giving all the details?



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> It is a BVR kill from JF17 supported by SAAB and Blinder in the Air and YLC and MPDR on the ground.

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## The Accountant

Khatri_pune said:


> HA ...HA....HA.... Pakistan would have paraded them also if captured really....
> 
> But its simple to understand "if GOI says it its all propaganda and falls... But if DGISPR says it... it must be true.."


Because of historical evidence ... DG ISPR is not motivated by election ... We are not trained to lie ... Politicians are trained to lie ... I would have took it with a pinch of salt of statement made by any political party of Pakistan

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## Rusty

gambit said:


> And what interests are there to Pakistan to torture the Indians, eh? Have you not learned the lessons of Gitmo where it turned the US inside out, shamed a presidency, the tainted the entire country? I speak on this issue from the perspective of a veteran, someone who made out his will before deployments, stood next to a live nuclear bomb, and graduated from SERE. What have you done?


No one is going to get tourtured. 
unless you call forcing him to drink copious amounts of tea torture.


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## maximuswarrior

gambit said:


> And what interests are there to Pakistan to torture the Indians, eh? Have you not learned the lessons of Gitmo where it turned the US inside out, shamed a presidency, the tainted the entire country? I speak on this issue from the perspective of a veteran, someone who made out his will before deployments, stood next to a live nuclear bomb, and graduated from SERE. What have you done?



LOL look who is here. The self-proclaimed veteran. He boasts about his record on a public forum. We believe your impressive achievements instantly.

Buddy, he is in our custody and we will indeed decide his fate. First, we are going to extract all valuable info. Secondly, if we might return him, we will get something or someone important in exchange.

We caught the pilot in an act of aggression. He didn’t violate Pak airspace to throw flowers. He violated Pak airspace to wage war and commit harm. Every action has a consequence. Now don’t lecture us on humanity.

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## BERKEKHAN2

Thorough Pro said:


> why are you giving all the details?


To help some one obviously


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Mirza Jatt said:


> Is this the retaliation ??? Lol
> You entered .. immediately intercepted... you ran back.
> 
> Just to let you know .. nothing was dropped neither u entered anywhere close to the depth we did. Imran Khan fooling you people





mshan44 said:


> this is jf 17 spanking their sukhoi 30 lol



great analysis by chutiya major of smoke trails of their own planes scrambling around.

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## ARMalik

Fellows, it looks like the next phase is ON! There is no option now - Pakistan needs to go after these Clowns and burn them!

=================
*PM Modi gives Indian military ‘free hand’ to act after Pakistan violated airspace: Sources*
*The decision was taken a high-level security meeting with all three Service Chiefs.*
New Delhi, News Nation Bureau | Updated : 28 February 2019, 12:11 AM
https://www.newsnation.in/india-new...space-pulwama-indian-army-article-215420.html


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## devil302

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Shameful, they show the video of their own aircraft being taken as F16 being shot down.


ohh shit man i can see the pilot too in the cockpit


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## maximuswarrior

ARMalik said:


> Fellows, it looks like the next phase is ON! There is no option now - Pakistan needs to go after these Clowns and burn them!
> 
> =================
> *PM Modi gives Indian military ‘free hand’ to act after Pakistan violated airspace: Sources*
> *The decision was taken a high-level security meeting with all three Service Chiefs.*
> New Delhi, News Nation Bureau | Updated : 28 February 2019, 12:11 AM
> https://www.newsnation.in/india-new...space-pulwama-indian-army-article-215420.html



These Indian bastards are definitely planning and up to something. Their masters the US and certain European nations are quiet. After India attacked Pakistan the Western media was drooling with happiness and going as far as claiming that Pakistan couldn’t react. They were left gobsmacked when PAF downed IAF fighters. The Western media is in disbelief. The fvckers are still analyzing how this could have happened. A bloody masterstroke by PAF!

Modi the son of a whore has not responded to Imran Khan’s peace offer. That in fact is an excellent sign. The Indian lovers in Pakistan are begging India to accept Imran Khan’s peace offer LOL We already know that Modi and his clowns won’t accept peace offer. Modi got caught with his pants down and he is hurt. India is going to further escalate in a tit for tat. No doubt about it.

Serves us well. Let’s remain vigilant and wherever we can think ahead we should act. This time is precious and should not be wasting it on cheap talk. What has happened has happened. Time to move onto round 3 now. *Remain vigilant and prepare!*

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## IbnAbdullah

Salaam



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> d. As it is now official policy, we are to not talk about any "other" pilots. *Just let this one go, as this will make you really proud of what is to come.*




Could you please clarify this a bit further. 

Thank you.

..

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## Rusty

Storm bombardier said:


> Both sides are claiming it to be enemy jet
> I think it's was a UFO


only one side has been proved to be a lier.

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## Raider 21

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Affirmative. The most beautiful one is BVR kill for the escaping Su. I hope you have also seen the wreckage coming down in flames as capture by a civilian.
> 
> It was a proud day for Pilots and Ground / Air Controllers. But lets keep that for Asif Ghafoor to release.


Negative sir. Both MiG-21s and both BVR kills.


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## Bilal Khan 777

Storm bombardier said:


> To help some one obviously



To help IAF realize they need to back off and tell their political administration that they are unable to continue the BJP's election campaign.



Knuckles said:


> Negative sir. Both MiG-21s and both BVR kills.


In BVR engagement, its hard to tell. There is a twin seater in the mix, unless they sent a trainer for the intercept.

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## AMG_12

RPK said:


> I stick with MEA version one PAF fighter jet shotdown. surely they will have radar and AWCAS readout


Well I can't help with the blind faith. Most of us wouldn't even agree with ISPR if there's no proof. Like you saw most Pakistanis calling it our failure when India intruded despite ISPR assurance that it was just 4 miles.


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## The Accountant

Look at his status 


maximuswarrior said:


> LOL look who is here. The self-proclaimed veteran. He boasts about his record on a public forum. We believe your impressive achievements instantly.
> 
> Buddy, he is in our custody and we will indeed decide his fate. First, we are going to extract all valuable info. Secondly, if we might return him, we will get something or someone important in exchange.
> 
> We caught the pilot in an act of aggression. He didn’t violate Pak airspace to throw flowers. He violated Pak airspace to wage war and commit harm. Every action has a consequence. Now don’t lecture us on humanity.


he is professional and as far as I remember an ex F16 pilot


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## Avicenna

The number of reported pilots downed don't make sense for there not to have a Flanker or some other two seater downed.

One pic infact showed a guy with his hands held up behind Abhi.

We're not getting the complete story publicly I think.

For whatever reason PAF is holding back the true toll they took on IAF.

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## maximuswarrior

The Accountant said:


> Look at his status
> 
> he is professional and as far as I remember an ex F16 pilot



An F-16 pilot doesn’t participate in an open public forum. Let me assure you. He can claim to be anything.

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## AyanRay

Game.Invade said:


> Well I can't help with the blind faith. Most of us wouldn't even agree with ISPR if there's no proof. Like you saw most Pakistanis calling it our failure when India intruded despite ISPR assurance that it was just 4 miles.



But it wasn't just 4 miles, was it? KPK isn't just 4 miles away from Indian border.


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## Akasa

Avicenna said:


> The number of reported pilots downed don't make sense for there not to have a Flanker or some other two seater downed.
> 
> One pic infact showed a guy with his hands held up behind Abhi.
> 
> We're not getting the complete story publicly I think.



So far one pilot is confirmed to be in captivity. The other 1 or 2 pilots, the number of which varies per source, has not yet been verified by either side.

If you take a look at the photograph, there are multiple people with their hands up; the most likely explanation is that they were part of the mob that was beating up the pilot and now were getting arrested by the police.

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## atya

Avicenna said:


> The number of reported pilots downed don't make sense for there not to have a Flanker or some other two seater downed.
> 
> One pic infact showed a guy with his hands held up behind Abhi.
> 
> We're not getting the complete story publicly I think.
> 
> For whatever reason PAF is holding back the true toll they took on IAF.


They want tensions to dampen down.

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## maximuswarrior

Avicenna said:


> The number of reported pilots downed don't make sense for there not to have a Flanker or some other two seater downed.
> 
> One pic infact showed a guy with his hands held up behind Abhi.
> 
> We're not getting the complete story publicly I think.
> 
> For whatever reason PAF is holding back the true toll they took on IAF.



You are right man. We are not going to tell everything. It is up to our officials to disclose whatever they deem fit. That is called narrative building.

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## Avicenna

Akasa said:


> So far one pilot is confirmed to be in captivity. The other 1 or 2 pilots, the number of which varies per source, has not yet been verified by either side.
> 
> If you take a look at the photograph, there are multiple people with their hands up; the most likely explanation is that they were part of the mob that was beating up the pilot and now were getting arrested by the police.



Maybe.

Time will tell.


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## Telescopic Sight

atya said:


> They want tensions to dampen down.


There are 2 guys with their hands up. Simply cheering.


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## maximuswarrior

atya said:


> They want tensions to dampen down.



Highly unlikely. I have seen the reaction in Western media and they are irked with the number change LOL

It means that we are controlling the narrative. They don’t like that.

Like I said, the authorities have their reasons to change the number. Probably they don’t want to reveal their identities for whatever important reason.

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## HRK

Avicenna said:


> We're not getting the complete story publicly I think.


to keep the political environment in check at the other side of the border, and to gain to some time for foreign countries to intervene ..... so that things does not go out of control and Pakistan is still trying avoid the full war

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## RPK

Game.Invade said:


> Well I can't help with the blind faith. Most of us wouldn't even agree with ISPR if there's no proof. Like you saw most Pakistanis calling it our failure when India intruded despite ISPR assurance that it was just 4 miles.


I agree GOI never released any Video or Pic operation related with Pakistan. they only release information they are ascertain. Your ISPR released multiple version with RAW footage of pilot.


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## Raider 21

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> To help IAF realize they need to back off and tell their political administration that they are unable to continue the BJP's election campaign.
> 
> 
> In BVR engagement, its hard to tell. There is a twin seater in the mix, unless they sent a trainer for the intercept.


Twin-seat MiG-21 Bison.

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## Great Janjua

RPK said:


> I agree GOI never released any Video or Pic operation related with Pakistan. they only release information they are ascertain. Your ISPR released multiple version with RAW footage of pilot.


Now please demand evidence from your second mig pilot who you guys think escaped [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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## RPK

Great Janjua said:


> Now please demand evidence from your second mig pilot who you guys think escaped


We already proved we are inside you airspace with MIG and pilot.

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## Dark-Destroyer

RPK said:


> I agree GOI never released any Video or Pic operation related with Pakistan. they only release information they are ascertain. Your ISPR released multiple version with RAW footage of pilot.



Some nations live in a dilusion unfortunately so they need raw videos not a movie script unfortunately and that's what the armed forces are their to provide a reality check to those who thump their chests and become aggressors

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## b4umsf

There is no if and buts


----------



## Thorough Pro

futile attempt, Kattay dudh naeen chonday



Storm bombardier said:


> To help some one obviously


----------



## Great Janjua

RPK said:


> We already proved we are inside you airspace with MIG and pilot.


We have captured your so called proof barway


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## b4umsf

Great Janjua said:


> We have captured your so called proof barway


----------



## Dark-Destroyer

RPK said:


> We already proved we are inside you airspace with MIG and pilot.



And we proved to you that we knocked your pilots for 6 and then you changed your tone from warmongering to peace ask sushma when she landed in China first thing she said was we dont want further escalation so do you people have any shame lol I suggest you guys go back and reevaluate and understand that trying to test Pakistan's resolve we be very costly for you and this is just a glimpse so again have an ounce of shame and self respect and let sense prevale

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## CHACHA"G"

qamar1990 said:


> what is this video guys?


This means 2nd aircraft we shoot down is SU-30...…………….. And we did not lost any F-16s ……….. ………… If they had took it down , they will surly bring their AWACs data , ground radar data in front of their nation to save them humiliation .. This is usual Indian Media randi rona…………. 
IAF will not going to wait for modi permission to releasing data , because their moral is dam down..... 
Losing Mig-21 and SU-30 in one engagement is very serious business that too from JF-17s hand.

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## N.Siddiqui

RPK said:


> I agree GOI never released any Video or Pic operation related with Pakistan. they only release information they are ascertain. Your ISPR released multiple version with RAW footage of pilot.







*DAWN.COM*

Facebook Count
Twitter Share
In pictures: PAF downs Indian aircraft violating Pakistan airspace, pilot held captive[/paste:font]







Wreckage from one of the Indian aircraft shot down. — Photo: ISPR

In the early hours of Wednesday, two Indian Air Force (IAF) aircraft were shot down by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in response to unprovoked aggression a day earlier.

_Read Dawn's live blog on Pakistan-India escalation_

DG ISPR Major General Asif Ghafoor in a tweet said: "In response to PAF strikes this morning as released by MoFA, IAF crossed LOC. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K while other fell inside IOK." While the DG had initially said in a presser that two pilots were in custody, he later clarified that only one Indian pilot, Wing Commander Abhi Nandan, is held captive.

Also read: LoC violation — When truth is the first casualty

Tensions have been high between the two nuclear-armed rivals since a suicide bomber, a native of Indian-occupied Kashmir, crashed a car packed with 300kg of explosives into a convoy of Indian Central Reserve Police Forces (CRPF), killing more than 40 paramilitary personnel, and injuring at least 70 on February 14 in Pulwama.





PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. — Photo: ISPR


The PAF engaged with six selected Indian targets from within its airspace in Bhimbar Gali, KG Top, and the Indian supply Depot in Naryan.

"It was unanimously decided by the Armed Forces that no military installations or civilian areas would be targeted, and the strikes would be conducted in a responsible manner to avoid collateral damage and further escalation in the region," Maj Gen Ghafoor said.

The military spokesperson said that Pakistan has the capability and the will to engage in a conflict that is not of its own making but chooses to not enter into conflict at the cost of regional peace.

He went on to say, that this was not 'retaliation' in its true sense, but "we want to avoid a full-blown war".





Wreckage from one of the Indian aircraft shot down. — Photo: ISPR


There were additional reports going around that a Pakistani F-16 plane had also been shot down. The military spokesperson quelled any rumours and informed that PAF did not use any F-16s in its latest engagement.





PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace. — Photo: ISPR






Pilot lands in Azad Jammu and Kashmir. — Photo: ISPR


Two Indian aircraft entered Pakistani air space, engaged with PAF, and as a result, were shot down. The wreckage of one of the planes landed in Azad Jammu Kashmir, and the wreckage of the other plane landed in the Indian-occupied Kasmir.

There are also intelligence reports of another Indian plane being shot down, but the wreckage is reportedly deep in Indian territory. There was no engagement with the third IAF plane.

One IAF pilot was captured by the armed forces on the ground. The pilot, who was critically injured, was sent to the Combined Military Hospital (CMH) and is being treated.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1466357/i...iolating-pakistan-airspace-pilot-held-captive

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## RPK

Dark-Destroyer said:


> And we proved to you that we knocked your pilots for 6 and then you changed your tone from warmongering to peace ask sushma when she landed in China first thing she said was we dont want further escalation so do you people have any shame lol I suggest you guys go back and reevaluate and understand that trying to test Pakistan's resolve we be very costly for you and this is just a glimpse so again have an ounce of shame and self respect and let sense prevale


Our Task was clear not to attack PAF or civilian. It is pre emptive strike . You came to attack as it was challenged by IAF in the process PAF and IAF lost one Jet. so status que

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## maximuswarrior

RPK said:


> Our Task was clear not to attack PAF or civilian. It is pre emptive strike . You came to attack as it was challenged by IAF in the process PAF and IAF lost one Jet. so status que



Blah blah blah. Yeah you violated our airspace to distribute some candies.

Dude, just accept it. You got a firm spanking for your transgression. End of discussion.

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## SHAH820

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100995296052441088





there is a difference in all the images

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## Great Janjua

RPK said:


> Our Task was clear not to attack PAF or civilian. It is pre emptive strike . You came to attack as it was challenged by IAF in the process PAF and IAF lost one Jet. so status que


Someone ban retards like these, hollow minded crackpots


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## maximuswarrior

SHAH820 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100995296052441088
> View attachment 542786
> 
> 
> there is a difference in all the images



There is absolutely no point arguing with donkeys.

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## BERKEKHAN2

maximuswarrior said:


> There is absolutely no point arguing with donkeys.


You have nothing to argue


----------



## N.Siddiqui

RPK said:


> IAF in the process PAF and IAF lost one Jet. so status que




Lol, what ANI news agency showing Pak F-16 is a downed Indian Mig-21 Bison....check the series of pictures in the above reply. 

...and ANI news provides picture to all the news media in India, no wonder every Indian media channel is showing this downed Indian jet as a downed Pakistani F-16. It is more about the fake false optics and looking for some fake chest thumping and to hide the embarrassment by India. 







Wreckage from one of the Indian aircraft shot down. — Photo: ISPR

In the early hours of Wednesday, two Indian Air Force (IAF) aircraft were shot down by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in response to unprovoked aggression a day earlier.

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## pakdefender

Sugarcane said:


> How it strengthen cuck position of ISPR who claim that fuel tank dropped in open field and no loss?



You have anything more to say now ?


----------



## Reddington

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100857105450438659

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## RPK

N.Siddiqui said:


> ANI news agency showing Pak F-16


I never said whatever comes in Media. My stand is based on government of India release


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## Great Janjua

I don't see any damage too the supposed camp site being done


----------



## mshan44



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## dilpakistani

Viny said:


> View attachment 542281


Buddy whatever Pakistan is saying is showing proves for it.... from URI to Pulvama to Air strike to shooting down of jets.... Please show something to prove that what ur gov and army is saying....


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## usman012

Hilarious Indian media showing F-16 shot down by a vintage mig 21 .


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## Sugarcane

pakdefender said:


> You have anything more to say now ?



Still stand by position - Stance of ISPR limited the scope of our retaliation - go on and check the details of our retaliation "Target locked but deliberately fired on distance" because we already took position that nothing happened on our side instead of going with narrative that Indian aggression is act of war.


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## N.Siddiqui

RPK said:


> I never said whatever comes in Media. My stand is based on government of India release




It is the one and same thing, media is a govt. mouthpiece and at times govt. says what the media says and what being fed...

We all know how Indian media is controlled by BJP, with support from establishment, which in reality is supported by hardliners like RSS, VHP, Sangh Parivar, coming up with their hard line extremist ideology...and which is financed by the conglomerate like Ambani's and Adanis...so it is a long set of command, if you connect the dots it will be clear.

Or rather what I have written here is actually the hierarchy in Indian politics, the nexus between RSS, BJP(the political wing of RSS), Indian establishment(again towing the RSS lines) and Ambanis and Adanis(supporting RSS/BJP through finance and sponsors in elections)....this is how it works in India.

They Ambanis and Adanis also support and fiance big media channels, cross media channels(owns many) and support R&AW and Indian intelligence by financing their operations, overt and covert...

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## ameer219

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101015208041025536
See the wreckage at 0:50. It's definitely a Mig-21 rather than the acclaimed F-16. ANI news reporting is horrendous.

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## kurkak

We are waiting avedins from IAF


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## NA71

Great Janjua said:


> We have captured your so called proof barway


Don't get angry...Indians are now using all bollywood stunts to show that they have done something good ... just give you some news....reports are emerging that our strikes were not only hit them in Air but some serious damage and casualties on Ground. Our Govt. do not want further escalation that's why video release is postponed ....be ready videos will be released by ISPR if Indias do not stop barking. it will not be a clip from TOP GUN movie.

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## Great Janjua

nahmed71 said:


> Don't get angry...Indians are now using all bollywood stunts to show that they have done something good ... just give you some news....reports are emerging that our strikes were not only hit them in Air but some serious damage and casualties on Ground Govt. do not want further escalation that's why video release is postponed ....be ready videos will be released by ISPR if they do not stop barking. it will not be a clip from TOP GUN movie.


Agreed


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## Dash

Pakistan is again being fed the same rasgolla that we’re fed in 47,65,71and 99 

Wait until a general unveiling in a book

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101016076169576449


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## RPK

N.Siddiqui said:


> It is the one and same thing, media is a govt. mouthpiece and at times govt. says what the media says and what being fed...


Media speculate a lot based on input from ex soldiers and other. Indian media never ever listen to GOI they think they are god

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## mshan44

Times Now indian channel reporting Pakistan jets have just violated ponch sector in india

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## Bilal Khan 777

ameer219 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101015208041025536
> See the wreckage at 0:50. It's definitely a Mig-21 rather than the acclaimed F-16. ANI news reporting is horrendous.



Very nice video. The Mig 21 cockpit and nose section clearly visible, flattened with Indian tricolor on it. so are the distinct delta wings. The aircraft broke into two, with the tail section and engine section in pieces. Note the peppered holes of a AAM tungsten warhead in the tail and midsection, from the air to air missile. 

Shameless using of the MiG pictures by Indian media as F16. Lockheed Martin may come around and file a suit for calling the HAL build Russian kit as F16. I have seen bad, but this is terrible.

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## gambit

maximuswarrior said:


> An F-16 pilot doesn’t participate in an open public forum. Let me assure you. He can claim to be anything.


You are in no position to 'assure' this forum of anything other than that you are nothing more than a keyboard warrior in the worst context of the word.

Sure, I can claim to be anything, but then so can you or anyone for that matter. This is a military oriented forum. If it is that easy to pretend to be someone, this forum would have been crawling with snipers, pilots, and assorted 'special forces' soldiers. But the reason why people -- including yourself -- do not risk embarrassment at pretending is because you know you will be busted by someone who have actual military experience.

When a member of a military is taken prisoner, he is no longer able to act as an active agent on behalf of his country's goals. That knowledge is not lost upon the captors. It was the horrors of WW II that the Geneva Convention was created to bring some measure of humanity to an atrocious event -- war.

What I said so far is clearly beyond your comprehension. As a keyboard warrior, you are more obsessed with your Internet 'tough guy' image than of reality. Not only are you a despised keyboard warrior, at your very core, you are nothing more than a coward.

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## Bilal Khan 777

gambit said:


> You are in no position to 'assure' this forum of anything other than that you are nothing more than a keyboard warrior in the worst context of the word.
> 
> Sure, I can claim to be anything, but then so can you or anyone for that matter. This is a military oriented forum. If it is that easy to pretend to be someone, this forum would have been crawling with snipers, pilots, and assorted 'special forces' soldiers. But the reason why people -- including yourself -- do not risk embarrassment at pretending is because you know you will be busted by someone who have actual military experience.
> 
> When a member of a military is taken prisoner, he is no longer able to act as an active agent on behalf of his country's goals. That knowledge is not lost upon the captors. It was the horrors of WW II that the Geneva Convention was created to bring some measure of humanity to an atrocious event -- war.
> 
> What I said so far is clearly beyond your comprehension. As a keyboard warrior, you are more obsessed with your Internet 'tough guy' image than of reality. Not only are you a despised keyboard warrior, at your very core, you are nothing more than a coward.



Take it easy. The kids get a little too excited.

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## litman

some interesting discussion going on there
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55055&start=30

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## NA71

India releases the photo of Pak F-16








Dash said:


> Pakistan is again being fed the same rasgolla that we’re fed in 47,65,71and 99
> 
> Wait until a general unveiling in a book



Now this time our pilots are writing the story of shooting down IAF 21 & 29 in broad daylight with targets burning on the ground.

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## Trailer23

Dash said:


> Pakistan is again being fed the same rasgolla that we’re fed in 47,65,71and 99


But the difference is that India isn't providing any proof.

The so-called Surgical Strikes that took place a couple of days back courtesy of the IAF hasn't played out to what was stated. Pakistan Army has openly invited the UN, Ambassadors and Indian Media/Army to come and examine the area where they dropped arsenal. Forget about the damage, but 300+ bodies scattered would leave some evidence. So far, India hasn't taken up on the offer.

India states that one of their jets crashed due to a Technical Glitch. How convenient - that the glitch took place right when the other jet was engaged in mortal combat with the PAF.

And I've stated over and over. Prior to the events that led to yesterdays Dogfight, what was the strength of the F-16's in the PAF. Fighter Jets around the World have Serial Numbers. Lets have all our F-16's accounted for and then see if we are one short.

India is in denial...and people like Arnab Goswami (Republic TV) and Amish Devgan are still screaming at the camera as if India is the one that has a PAF PoW...

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## atya

Link isn't embedding. But India seems to be accusing Pakistan of air violation again.

Maybe a sign of Indian aggression to follow??


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## BERKEKHAN2

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2265335183789983





Pakistan mobilising ly 80


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## Bilal Khan 777

Storm bombardier said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2265335183789983
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan mobilising ly 80



yes, since your war plans are well known to us.

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## __Jihadi__

-Mod edited


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## BERKEKHAN2

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> yes, since your war plans are well known to us.


Good for you [emoji16]


----------



## arbit

MultaniGuy said:


> Show me international news like BBC confirming this. Because Pakistan denies this.



BBC itself collates news from local sources. As for your govt denial, that's to be expected. However your pilot 'Hassan' is an F-16 pilot. You can confirm that. 

In your airforce, the roles of JF17 and F-16 are clearly defined. F-16 being the most modern aircraft in your inventory are reserved for strikes and JF are for snaring enemy jets in your own territory. your so called defensive doctrine.

Your airforce fully knowing of a response from IAF will send a jet most likely to survive during a dogfight with Sukhoi 30 or Mig29 and that's F-16.

Things will clear eventually though. Right now its more important to preserve the halo fo F16 and I understand that.


----------



## Mugwop

MUZAFFARABAD: Mohammad Razzaq Chaudhry was in the courtyard of his house in Horra’n village, located barely 7km from the Line of Control (LoC) in Azad Jammu and Kashmir’s Bhimber district, at about 8:45am on Wednesday when the “smoke and sound” made him realise that a dogfight was going on up above in the sky.

Upon watching them carefully, the 58-year-old political and social activist of the area noticed that two aircraft had caught fire but while one of them sped across the LoC, the other burst into flames and came down speedily.

Its wreckage fell more than one kilometre away from the house of Mr Razzaq towards the eastern side in a deserted field.
Mr Razzaq said he saw a parachute descending towards the ground, which made landing around one kilometre away from his house but on the southern side.

He jumped into a small pond where he tried to swallow some documents and maps
A pilot emerged out of the parachute safe and sound,” he told Dawn from Horra’n village by telephone.

Mr Razzaq said he had in the meantime made calls to several youngsters in the village, asking them not to go close to the wreckage until arrival of the army personnel but get hold of the pilot.

_In pictures: PAF downs Indian aircraft violating Pakistan airspace, pilot held captive_

The pilot, who was equipped with a pistol, asked the youngsters whether it was India or Pakistan. On this, one of them intelligently responded that it was India. The pilot, later identified as Wing Commander Abhi Nandan, shouted some slogans and asked which place exactly it was in India.

To this, the same boy responded that it was Qilla’n.

The pilot told them that his “back was broken” and he needed water to drink.

_Dawn Exclusive: A time for restraint_

Some emotional youth, who could not digest the slogans, shouted Pakistan army zindabad. On this, Abhinandan shot a fire in the air while the boys picked up stones in their hands.
According to Mr Razzaq, the Indian pilot ran a distance of half a kilometre in backward direction while pointing his pistol towards the boys who were chasing him.

During this brisk movement, he fired some more gunshots in the air to frighten them but to no avail, he said. Then he jumped into a small pond where he took out some documents and maps from his pockets, some of which he tried to swallow and soaked others in water.

The boys kept on asking him to drop his weapon and in the meanwhile one boy shot at his leg, Mr Razzaq said.

Finally, he came out and said he should not be killed. The boys got hold of him from both arms. Some of them roughed him up, in a fit of rage, while others kept on stopping them.

In the meanwhile, army personnel arrived there and took him into their custody and saved him from the wrath of the youths, he said.

“Thanks God, none of the furious boys shot him dead because he had given them quite a tough time,” he said.
The detained pilot was then taken to an army installation in Bhimber in a convoy of military vehicles.

As the convoy passed through Khalil Chowk of Bhimber city, some 50km away from Horra’n, it was greeted by dozens of cheerful citizens standing on both sides of the road. They showered rose petals on the military vehicles, amid slogans like Long Live Pakistan army, Long Live Pakistan Air Force, Long Live Pakistan and Long Live Kashmir.




Shakal takoo pan yuck di

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## The Accountant

maximuswarrior said:


> An F-16 pilot doesn’t participate in an open public forum. Let me assure you. He can claim to be anything.


He retired long ago

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## Knight Rider

arbit said:


> BBC itself collates news from local sources. As for your govt denial, that's to be expected. However your pilot 'Hassan' is an F-16 pilot. You can confirm that.
> 
> In your airforce, the roles of JF17 and F-16 are clearly defined. F-16 being the most modern aircraft in your inventory are reserved for strikes and JF are for snaring enemy jets in your own territory. your so called defensive doctrine.
> 
> Your airforce fully knowing of a response from IAF will send a jet most likely to survive during a dogfight with Sukhoi 30 or Mig29 and that's F-16.
> 
> Things will clear eventually though. Right now its more important to preserve the halo fo F16 and I understand that.
> 
> Thats an F-16 missing.
> View attachment 542848


See closely all those jets in image are Pakistani F-7s not F-16s. What Indians are smoking nowadays ?? 
F-7PG


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## Imran Khan

Storm bombardier said:


> Good for you [emoji16]


Do din kidher ghayeb tha abhi nandan bhai

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## Mugwop



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## Cuirassier

Indians making dumb claims about having proof of F16 downed by showing parts of their own MiG21. Claim the F16 engine part of F110 is shown but PAF F16s use PW220s with totally different pattern. Also claim the big afterburner image as F16s when it is just the backside of the MiG21s engine, as shown in this video


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100783191403778054

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## BERKEKHAN2

Imran Khan said:


> Do din kidher ghayeb tha abhi nandan bhai


Hum idar hi thei shayad aapnei dekha nhi

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## Mugwop

@Rusty @Areesh @Zibago @Starlord

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## I S I

I was watching the witnesses interview on some news channel. They were saying that Indian pilot laid down on ground right after dropping through chute in the hope that people will think he died but people realized he was alive & started asking some questions to that chap. The pilot then said that he don't remember anything. "Where am I?' He asked. Trying to act like a "ghajni". locals were smart, (knowing that he got a Glock pistol) The villagers said that you are in India. He shouted with joy... JAI HIND.
Then Pak Army personnel arrived & the rest in history..

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## Jf Thunder

what an idiot

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## manlion

another script ready for blockbuster Bollywood flick 
*
Injured Abhinandan fought captors, fired into air, swallowed imp documents before being captured: Pak media*

Instead, he fought his captors, fired into the air and swallowed important documents (which should not have been in enemy hands), before he was outnumbered and captured.

All this, while he was bleeding profusely after the crash.

Pakistani newspaper Dawn reports: The pilot, who was equipped with a pistol, asked the youngsters whether it was India or Pakistan. On this, one of them intelligently responded that it was India. The pilot, later identified as Wing Commander Abhi Nandan, shouted some slogans and asked which place exactly it was in India. To this, the same boy responded that it was Qilla'n.

The pilot told them that his "back was broken" and he needed water to drink.

Some emotional youth, who could not digest the slogans, shouted Pakistan army zindabad. On this, Abhinandan shot a fire in the air while the boys picked up stones in their hands.

According to Mr Razzaq (an eyewitness), the Indian pilot ran a distance of half a kilometre in backward direction while pointing his pistol towards the boys who were chasing him.

During this brisk movement, he fired some more gunshots in the air to frighten them but to no avail, he said. Then he jumped into a small pond where he took out some documents and maps from his pockets, some of which he tried to swallow and soaked others in water.

Even while catering to Pakistani readership that would perhaps not want to read about the bravery of an Indian fighter pilot inside their territory, Dawn reports that Abhinandan said his back was broken while he displayed such valour.

Read those words again: "He (Abhinandan) had given them quite a tough time."

No wonder even Pakistani handles want Abhinandan to return to India with dignity.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ents-captured-media-report-1466984-2019-02-28


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## monitor

nahmed71 said:


> India releases the photo of Pak F-16
> View attachment 542841
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now this time our pilots are writing the story of shooting down IAF 21 & 29 in broad daylight with targets burning on the ground.



if its true the ID card of the down fighter pilot then its true that F16 was down by Indian .


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## ProudPak

qamar1990 said:


> what is this video guys?


She just needs sex


----------



## Imran Khan

Maf ker do bechary ko humy itna khush bhi kiya nandan ne


----------



## Ali Tariq

monitor said:


> if its true the ID card of the down fighter pilot then its true that F16 was down by Indian .


NO F-16 was used in this operation, it's just another propaganda by Indian media.

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## arbit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100995296052441088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100997596351324161


Oh and by the way the images were first shared by Pakistanis who thought they had recovered the second downed jet.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671056904376327



Also before any one points out the engines make let me make it clear that it uses both engines. The f16s with block number ending in 2 use Pratt & Whitney, and block number ending in 0 use GE. PAF has more number of block 50 engines. Hence it is GE engine. So this is F16 with GE engine.

@Knight Rider @MultaniGuy

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## ZAC1

Mugwop said:


>


if someone have seen this video ..the guy in brown leather jacket is giving him blows to his face


----------



## Avicenna

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100995296052441088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100997596351324161
> 
> 
> Oh and by the way the images were first shared by Pakistanis who thought they had recovered the second downed jet.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100671056904376327
> 
> 
> 
> Also before any one points out the engines make let me make it clear that it uses both engines. The f16s with block number ending in 2 use Pratt & Whitney, and block number ending in 0 use GE. PAF has more number of block 50 engines. Hence it is GE engine. So this is F16 with GE engine.
> 
> @Knight Rider @MultaniGuy



You're clueless Indian.

These pics are clearly from a Bison as per the video.

Also PAF has no GE engines. Only Block 52's and MLU which use PW.


----------



## Signalian

arbit said:


> BBC itself collates news from local sources. As for your govt denial, that's to be expected. However your pilot 'Hassan' is an F-16 pilot. You can confirm that.


F-16's pilots fly JF-17's also and can be deputed in either squadron.

Wasn't this captured IAF pilot an SU-30 driver but he was flying a Mig-21?


> In your airforce, the roles of JF17 and F-16 are clearly defined. F-16 being the most modern aircraft in your inventory are reserved for strikes and JF are for snaring enemy jets in your own territory. your so called defensive doctrine.


You have written the roles wrongly. F-16's are primarily used for A2A combat, then strike. Mirage is first choice as strike aircraft for PAF.

You have also mentioned the scenario wrongly, Most contacts mention Mirages were being chased by IAF and JF-17's took out the IAF fighters.


> Your airforce fully knowing of a response from IAF will send a jet most likely to survive during a dogfight with Sukhoi 30 or Mig29 and that's F-16.


All PAF fighters are fully capable not just to survive dog fights with IAF but also bring the enemy planes down.



> Things will clear eventually though. Right now its more important to preserve the halo fo F16 and I understand that.


F-16's were not used.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

KRAIT said:


> 3 PAF aircrafts did come but got intercepted. No bombs dropped.


Your own ANI showing PAF ordinance hit outside you 6 military bases.

We have footage of 2 of your jets being hit by PAF.

We have indian media news reports about a mig-21 crash killing pilot in IOK;


We have 1 wreckage and your pilot;
























Apart from that we have footage of your military positions taken by our UAVs;






Take it as a warning.

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## Mentee

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Your own ANI showing PAF ordinance hit outside you 6 military bases.
> 
> Take it as a warning;


And Indian foreign office also did admit to this fact

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## The Accountant

Mugwop said:


> MUZAFFARABAD: Mohammad Razzaq Chaudhry was in the courtyard of his house in Horra’n village, located barely 7km from the Line of Control (LoC) in Azad Jammu and Kashmir’s Bhimber district, at about 8:45am on Wednesday when the “smoke and sound” made him realise that a dogfight was going on up above in the sky.
> 
> Upon watching them carefully, the 58-year-old political and social activist of the area noticed that two aircraft had caught fire but while one of them sped across the LoC, the other burst into flames and came down speedily.
> 
> Its wreckage fell more than one kilometre away from the house of Mr Razzaq towards the eastern side in a deserted field.
> Mr Razzaq said he saw a parachute descending towards the ground, which made landing around one kilometre away from his house but on the southern side.
> 
> He jumped into a small pond where he tried to swallow some documents and maps
> A pilot emerged out of the parachute safe and sound,” he told Dawn from Horra’n village by telephone.
> 
> Mr Razzaq said he had in the meantime made calls to several youngsters in the village, asking them not to go close to the wreckage until arrival of the army personnel but get hold of the pilot.
> 
> _In pictures: PAF downs Indian aircraft violating Pakistan airspace, pilot held captive_
> 
> The pilot, who was equipped with a pistol, asked the youngsters whether it was India or Pakistan. On this, one of them intelligently responded that it was India. The pilot, later identified as Wing Commander Abhi Nandan, shouted some slogans and asked which place exactly it was in India.
> 
> To this, the same boy responded that it was Qilla’n.
> 
> The pilot told them that his “back was broken” and he needed water to drink.
> 
> _Dawn Exclusive: A time for restraint_
> 
> Some emotional youth, who could not digest the slogans, shouted Pakistan army zindabad. On this, Abhinandan shot a fire in the air while the boys picked up stones in their hands.
> According to Mr Razzaq, the Indian pilot ran a distance of half a kilometre in backward direction while pointing his pistol towards the boys who were chasing him.
> 
> During this brisk movement, he fired some more gunshots in the air to frighten them but to no avail, he said. Then he jumped into a small pond where he took out some documents and maps from his pockets, some of which he tried to swallow and soaked others in water.
> 
> The boys kept on asking him to drop his weapon and in the meanwhile one boy shot at his leg, Mr Razzaq said.
> 
> Finally, he came out and said he should not be killed. The boys got hold of him from both arms. Some of them roughed him up, in a fit of rage, while others kept on stopping them.
> 
> In the meanwhile, army personnel arrived there and took him into their custody and saved him from the wrath of the youths, he said.
> 
> “Thanks God, none of the furious boys shot him dead because he had given them quite a tough time,” he said.
> The detained pilot was then taken to an army installation in Bhimber in a convoy of military vehicles.
> 
> As the convoy passed through Khalil Chowk of Bhimber city, some 50km away from Horra’n, it was greeted by dozens of cheerful citizens standing on both sides of the road. They showered rose petals on the military vehicles, amid slogans like Long Live Pakistan army, Long Live Pakistan Air Force, Long Live Pakistan and Long Live Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shakal takoo pan yuck di




He is lucky to be alive otherwise, carrying gun is common in northern Pakistan and even a kid might have killed him ...


----------



## Zibago

gambit said:


> And what interests are there to Pakistan to torture the Indians, eh? Have you not learned the lessons of Gitmo where it turned the US inside out, shamed a presidency, the tainted the entire country? I speak on this issue from the perspective of a veteran, someone who made out his will before deployments, stood next to a live nuclear bomb, and graduated from SERE. What have you done?


Call it enhanced interrogation?


----------



## mohsen

TheDarkKnight said:


> LoL - some mental gymnastics here to save your friends face here I guess. The Indians are making the claim they should come up with proof.
> The correction can mean many things if we speculate:
> 1) could be dead?
> 2) could have managed to escape
> 3) the second jet was in IOK so maybe they were too close to the LOC and we thought they landed on our side but didnt.
> There is only unnamed and unsourced Indian eye witness claim of so called Pakistani jet crashing - which Pakistan officially denies - the Indian jets were shot and may have been confused by Indians as their own?
> See without backing of concrete evidence we can speculate in so many directions inconclusively.


LOL, I have no friend in India or Pakistan, and I will take neither side.

I gently asked here about the situation:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...irspace-dg-ispr.604291/page-107#post-11214496

It was *Pakistanis *who said *more than one* Indian pilot has been *captured* and the other two are in hospital.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...irspace-dg-ispr.604291/page-108#post-11214524

It was Pakistanis who were barging about shooting down the SU30 and MIG29.
So, it's clear who has played gymnastic here.

Apparently even talking here is equal to negative rating:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...irspace-dg-ispr.604291/page-199#post-11220211


What's the cause of this fragile sense of confidence! @hrk?


----------



## The Accountant

monitor said:


> if its true the ID card of the down fighter pilot then its true that F16 was down by Indian .


Lolz ,,, its a packing material of sometype of local drug called Niswar ...


----------



## Mugwop

The Accountant said:


> He is lucky to be alive otherwise, carrying gun is common in northern Pakistan and even a kid might have killed him ...



I know right.


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## atya

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101039684468129792
This statement is going to be decisive on how things are going to develop from here


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## Tps43

16:30 pst going to be important time for region

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## jamahir

Do pilots not carry compass and satellite navigation receiver ??


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## Mentee

Tps43 said:


> 16:30 pst going to be important time for region


Ku roza khul Jay ga

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## atya

Mentee said:


> Ku roza khul Jay ga


Joint statement of Indian army, navy and airforce


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## Wa Muhammada

atya said:


> Joint statement of Indian army, navy and airforce



Will it be an apology?

Or announce a strike they carried out?


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## Mentee

atya said:


> Joint statement of Indian army, navy and airforce


Meh, going by the logic they would prolly gonna announce de-escalation


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## ice_man

they must de escalate. no choice because our response has to be tactical nuclear warfare if any new misadventure takes place. sadly MODI is destroying india for his own political aims and media is hand in glove with him on that.

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## Tps43

Mentee said:


> Ku roza khul Jay ga


Indian army aur navy wale press conference karain gr

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## Mentee

Tps43 said:


> Indian army aur navy wale press conference karain gr


I was expecting a retaliation. Seems like they've been reduced to doing press conferences.

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## IFB

what response modi ji has will become clear in 24-48hrs...the " nation is only safe in my hand image" is being tested to the core by this situation...if he still remains mum beyond that time period...its just the beginning of the end for modi's political existence.


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## Dubious

mohsen said:


> So the "three captured Indian pilots" turned to "one captured Indian pilot".
> 
> A very simple question, who were the other two pilots?
> 
> The only conclusion is that Indian were right and one Pakistani fighter has been shot down, either by India or by it's own air defense.


The news was about 3 pilots

At least before BS, get your facts right! The internet is full of 2 videos = 2 pilots who fell on indian side + 1 pilot on our side in our custody - now tell me what is 2 +1 ?

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## ice_man

Wa Muhammada said:


> Will it be an apology?
> 
> Or announce a strike they carried out?



will be cheast thumping and telling people we are strong and can defend and attack anyone. we are super power. 


eventually de escalation.


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## mohsen

Dubious said:


> The news was about 3 pilots
> 
> At least before BS, get your facts right! The internet is full of 2 videos = 2 pilots who fell on indian side + 1 pilot on our side in our custody - now tell me what is 2 +1 ?


I'm not familiar with Pak/India sources, that's why I asked here, that's what a forum is all about.

My facts could were right, if those mods who were busy negative rating my post, would negative rate false information of their fellow countrymen.


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## Dubious

mohsen said:


> I'm not familiar with Pak/India sources, that's why I asked here, that's what a forum is all about.
> 
> My facts could were right, if those mods who were busy negative rating my post, would negative rate false information of their fellow countrymen.


1) there are plenty of threads some with picture evidence some with video evidence ....while you are stuck with "wrong facts"?
2) ICT era google is your friend
3) Negative rating for false news (where you talked about 3 pilots trying to mock Pakistan) is justified!

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## Tps43

Dubious said:


> 1) there are plenty of threads some with picture evidence some with video evidence ....while you are stuck with "wrong facts"?
> 2) ICT era google is your friend
> 3) Negative rating for false news (where you talked about 3 pilots trying to mock Pakistan) is justified!


It’s absolutely justified


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## atya

Indians were humiliated yesterday internationally by their biggest foe...not expecting de-escalation. Hope I am wrong!

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## Mirza Jatt

We struck deep inside your land. Will do it soon in a bigger way again.. keep watching. You guys can continue your jingoism...your ISPR is so paranoid..it lied about two pilots with them..then they realised other aircraft was your own..so then they released another statement saying only one... what happened to other pilot ? dead ? even if dead they why claiming only 1... just wait and watch... IAF will hit again...and harder. 
Now trolls can feed on my post..


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## Trailer23

Hold up guys, here you go...:

In his Press Briefing, DG ISPR informs that TWO (*02*) IAF Pilots are in Pakistan's custody.

01 is in CMS Urgent Care Services
01 is...well you all have seen him in the recent Tapal Danedar Tea commercial.

Check Timecode: *4:45*


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## atya

Trailer23 said:


> Hold up guys, here you go...:
> 
> In his Press Briefing, DG ISPR informs that TWO (*02*) IAF Pilots are in Pakistan's custody.
> 
> 01 is in CMS Urgent Care Services
> 01 is...well you all have seen him in the recent Tapal Danedar Tea commercial.
> 
> Check Timecode: *4:45*


Either he has died or they have caught a big fish


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## waz

Mirza Jatt said:


> We struck deep inside your land. Will do it soon in a bigger way again.. keep watching. You guys can continue your jingoism...your ISPR is so paranoid..it lied about two pilots with them..then they realised other aircraft was your own..so then they released another statement saying only one... what happened to other pilot ? dead ? even if dead they why claiming only 1... just wait and watch... IAF will hit again...and harder.
> Now trolls can feed on my post..



I understand the hurt you feel at yesterday’s events, but the fantasy you just put up should be kept to yourself.

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## Mirza Jatt

Trailer23 said:


> Hold up guys, here you go...:
> 
> In his Press Briefing, DG ISPR informs that TWO (*02*) IAF Pilots are in Pakistan's custody.
> 
> 01 is in CMS Urgent Care Services
> 01 is...well you all have seen him in the recent Tapal Danedar Tea commercial.
> 
> Check Timecode: *4:45*



Are you guys so innocent that you dnt understand ?? lol.. the othe was a paf pilot. it's called covering up.


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## IceCold

Mirza Jatt said:


> We struck deep inside your land. Will do it soon in a bigger way again.. keep watching. You guys can continue your jingoism...your ISPR is so paranoid..it lied about two pilots with them..then they realised other aircraft was your own..so then they released another statement saying only one... what happened to other pilot ? dead ? even if dead they why claiming only 1... just wait and watch... IAF will hit again...and harder.
> Now trolls can feed on my post..


Jatt sb Ghusa jaan diyo, Ghusa sanu we anda ha or tusi waikh he lia ha sada ghusa. Thund rakho.

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## Mirza Jatt

waz said:


> I understand the hurt you feel at yesterday’s events, but the fantasy you just put up should be kept to yourself.



This is an act of war. What else do you expect india to do? you targetted military target.



IceCold said:


> Jatt sb Ghusa jaan diyo, Ghusa sanu we anda ha or tusi waikh he lia ha sada ghusa. Thund rakho.



Hun ta shuru hoya ae. pellla tuwada ispr da U turn. te hun tuwadi ministry da peace offer.


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## Trailer23

Mirza Jatt said:


> Are you guys so innocent that you dnt understand ?? lol.. the othe was a paf pilot. it's called covering up.


And are you (guys) so naïve/in denial that the picture your Media has shown of an Engine is NOT of the so-called F-16 claimed to have been shot down. Prior to the events that led to yesterdays crisis - we had a certain number of F-16's.

Would you like a headcount of them - courtesy of the Serial Numbers by General Dynamics/Lockheed Martin?


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## Great Janjua

Mirza Jatt said:


> This is an act of war. What else do you expect india to do? you targetted military target.
> 
> 
> 
> Hun ta shuru hoya ae. pellla tuwada ispr da U turn. te hun tuwadi ministry da peace offer.


Tu lora pat lena, gandua ja apni bund marwa,sasta khusra

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## Amigator

Mirza Jatt said:


> Are you guys so innocent that you dnt understand ?? lol.. the othe was a paf pilot. it's called covering up.


Try more harder to save face before world like your dirty sick mind shupa powa Idiots at back home do! Keep your bark on and on!

But the reality wouldn't change once for all i.e. PAF and Pakistanis has fucke@ IAF and Idiot Supa Pawa harder in their arse as much as their cry can be heard from Mars!

One more thing no lubricant was used, you can verify this by seeing redness on your giant arse.


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## Malik Alpha

Mirza Jatt said:


> We struck deep inside your land. Will do it soon in a bigger way again.. keep watching. You guys can continue your jingoism...your ISPR is so paranoid..it lied about two pilots with them..then they realised other aircraft was your own..so then they released another statement saying only one... what happened to other pilot ? dead ? even if dead they why claiming only 1... just wait and watch... IAF will hit again...and harder.
> Now trolls can feed on my post..


Now say this again without crying

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## Ali Tariq

Mirza Jatt said:


> te hun tuwadi ministry da peace offer.


This is called DIPLOMACY, on one side, our PM is offering peace but on borders, our Armed Forces are kicking your a**es. So, you keep whining and we will keep kick your...

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## aliyusuf

Mirza Jatt said:


> We struck deep inside your land


Balakot is about 40 Km from LOC in a straight line. The place where IAF planes let go of their payload is even closer to LOC. If that is your definition of deep inside, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.


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## Amigator

Whole plan of Modi Sarkar went down to gutter!


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## Mirza Jatt

haha.. the harder you try to abuse me. The bigger the lie you are not willing to accept. Deep inside (as deep as the IAf penetrated inside Pakistan..and you know how deep) you know that ISPR took a U turn.

You the biggest difference between India and Pakistan ? our media is shit and yours is comparitively better.. but thats known by Indian public hence they always look for truth. If it was Indian spokesperson who would havetaken a U turn..our seculars (who are in a large number) would have teared the Govt up for hiding the truth. we have to many Arundhati Roy's here.

But for just one moment..ask yourself guys.... why would ISPR say two pilots and then within moments change their stance to 1 pilot ?? I can post the video but in no mood really... face the reality guys.. everyone on border saw it... one IAf and 1 PAf aircraft went up in smoke. Cheers

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## Ali Tariq

Unfortunately, Indian people are suffering from over confidence. They can't believe their as* got kicked by our Jawans. For them(Indians), it's going to take some time to come to their senses. Right now their situation is...

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## Mirza Jatt

aliyusuf said:


> Balakot is about 40 Km from LOC in a straight line. The place where IAF planes let go of their payload is even closer to LOC. If that is your definition of deep inside, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.



ok for moment i agree for the sake of argument it was near LOC where the payload was dropped but the penetration was deep. Works for you ? am ok with it if we caught PAF with pants down. On the on the contrary our Migs..lol the cold era migs intercepted you immediate you crossed and when you were runningg they chased you deep inside your territory ?? heck even our pilot abhimanyu and his place crashed in your border to prove it to you guys. We chased you back even inside your own territory. Chest thumping is good on forums ... but ask Imran khan why is he sending peace offer every now and then..oh I heard he is willing to give back the pilot to ease the tensions..lol


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## Rafael

Mirza Jatt said:


> haha.. the harder you try to abuse me. The bigger the lie you are not willing to accept. Deep inside (as deep as the IAf penetrated inside Pakistan..and you know how deep) you know that ISPR took a U turn.
> 
> You the biggest difference between India and Pakistan ? our media is shit and yours is comparitively better.. but thats known by Indian public hence they always look for truth. If it was Indian spokesperson who would havetaken a U turn..*our seculars (who are in a large number) would have teared the Govt up for hiding the truth*. we have to many Arundhati Roy's here.
> 
> But for just one moment..ask yourself guys.... why would ISPR say two pilots and then within moments change their stance to 1 pilot ?? I can post the video but in no mood really... face the reality guys.. everyone on border saw it... one IAf and 1 PAf aircraft went up in smoke. Cheers



All your rubbish aside, this is the biggest lie. Your lot of seculars or liberals were cheering and gloating day before when you created the drama. Only after we struck, they came back to their senses.

As for shooting the PAF jet, where is your proof? Your media is shamelessly sharing pics of your downed mig and sharing as F-16. 

No sensible person can think that a mig 21 can shoot an F-16.


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## Rahil khan

Storm bombardier said:


> So you agree it was only one jet shot not 2 [emoji23]



Just watch video below, you shall learn where the wreckage of 2nd aircraft fell YESTERDAY MORNING. Its not an old video my friend. You have lost Kashmir through Kashmiri people...!




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Malik Shani

Rafael said:


> All your rubbish aside, this is the biggest lie. Your lot of seculars or liberals were cheering and gloating day before when you created the drama. Only after we struck, they came back to their senses.
> 
> As for shooting the PAF jet, where is your proof? Your media is shamelessly sharing pics of your downed mig and sharing as F-16.
> 
> No sensible person can think that a mig 21 can shoot an F-16.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101049266171043840
They are just exposing themselves.


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## Rafael

All your rubbish aside, this is the biggest lie. Your lot of seculars or liberals were cheering and gloating day before when you created the drama. Only after we struck, they came back to their senses. Also, why haven't they asked for proof of the strike yet? The proof of 300 killed? The fact is your liberals and seculars are as bigot as you yourself!

As for shooting the PAF jet, where is your proof? Your media is shamelessly sharing pics of your downed mig and sharing as F-16.

No sensible person can think that a mig 21 can shoot an F-16.

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## mohsen

Dubious said:


> 1) there are plenty of threads some with picture evidence some with video evidence ....while you are stuck with "wrong facts"?
> 2) ICT era google is your friend
> 3) Negative rating for false news (where you talked about 3 pilots trying to mock Pakistan) is justified!


So you don't mind the false news if they are in your favor (as you did nothing against them), but expressing my conclusion based on the very same false news that everyone else could read in this thread = negative rating ?!

but let me tell you something, based on the all of the pictures and videos (which you asked me to watch), *I as a neutral guy against you*, reached the conclusion that indeed Indian have shot down one of your fighters.
now if you think this is the mockery of Pakistan then negative rate this comment too, but for the next time, at least create a list of the pictures and videos which you wouldn't consider wrong!


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## Enigma SIG

mohsen said:


> So you don't mind the false news if they are in your favor (as you did nothing against them), but expressing my conclusion based on the very same false news that everyone else could read in this thread = negative rating ?!
> 
> but let me tell you something, based on the all of the pictures and videos (which you asked me to watch), *I as a neutral guy against you*, reached the conclusion that indeed Indian have shot down one of your fighters.
> now if you think this is the mockery of Pakistan then negative rate this comment too, but for the next time, at least create a list of the pictures and videos which you wouldn't consider wrong!


Pics or it didn't happen. Don't regurgitate propaganda.



Mirza Jatt said:


> But for just one moment..ask yourself guys.... why would ISPR say two pilots and then within moments change their stance to 1 pilot ?? I can post the video but in no mood really... face the reality guys.. everyone on border saw it... one IAf and 1 PAf aircraft went up in smoke. Cheers


Pics or it didn't happen.

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## Mirza Jatt

Rafael said:


> All your rubbish aside, this is the biggest lie. Your lot of seculars or liberals were cheering and gloating day before when you created the drama. Only after we struck, they came back to their senses.
> 
> As for shooting the PAF jet, where is your proof? Your media is shamelessly sharing pics of your downed mig and sharing as F-16.
> 
> No sensible person can think that a mig 21 can shoot an F-16.



ok your post seems on track so let me ask step by step.

Yes you are right we dont have pics of downed PAF place.. but bro thats the point.. the plane fell in your territory...infact even abhimanyu's plane fell in your territory. Abhimanyu was infact inside your territory as he chased your jets all the way to your territory.. thats where he got hit. Now lets corraborate this with your evidences.... Your ISPR saw two planes crashing and in a hurry claimed two pilots in custody but when he realised it was not an Indian ac but a PAF ac there was anothet statement issued immediately saying there was only 1 pilot. Dude,.. doesnt it ring a bell to you ?? lo.l RIP to the PAF pilot if he is dead. ISPR knows it and is covering this biiiig time. lol

Oh BTW the plane pics ?? if Kashmiris can see the chooper crash why cant they see indian crash of mig if thats what your ISPR is claiming to have shot down two migs..lol Ask dude ask.


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## Enigma SIG

Mirza Jatt said:


> Yes you are right we dont have pics of downed PAF place.. but bro thats the point.. the plane fell in your territory


IAF should release details of the engagement and claim an F-16 kill. Baaton ka bonsra koi bi bna skta hai.

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## Mirza Jatt

Enigma SIG said:


> Pics or it didn't happen. Don't regurgitate propaganda.
> 
> 
> Pics or it didn't happen.



2 planes crashed as per your ISPR. one iAF one PAF. If DGISPR can show 1 Indian plane and pilot why not other one if indeed it was an INDian pilot. Stop your jingosm and ask serious questions to your govt.


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## Dubious

mohsen said:


> So you don't mind the false news if they are in your favor (as you did nothing against them), but expressing my conclusion based on the very same false news that everyone else could read in this thread = negative rating ?!


Do point out what you "assume" as false news...I am not sure how Iranian media works ...Who knows what you are viewing as false is the real news us people in the modern world understand!


mohsen said:


> but let me tell you something, based on the all of the pictures and videos (which you asked me to watch), *I as a neutral guy against you*, reached the conclusion that indeed Indian have shot down one of your fighters.


Ok, based on which pictures and video did you conclude that? We are still awaiting for doctrine videos and pics of our fighters shot down...we took few hrs to release the video of our POW...what is taking india forever? 


mohsen said:


> now if you think this is the mockery of Pakistan then negative rate this comment too, but for the next time, at least create a list of the pictures and videos which you wouldn't consider wrong!


The mockery is on you...As a moderator I have the right to remove and negative rate your FALSE news/propagation...If it is due to your lack of analytical skills that is just collateral damage

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## Great Janjua

Mirza Jatt said:


> ok your post seems on track so let me ask step by step.
> 
> Yes you are right we dont have pics of downed PAF place.. but bro thats the point.. the plane fell in your territory...infact even abhimanyu's plane fell in your territory. Abhimanyu was infact inside your territory as he chased your jets all the way to your territory.. thats where he got hit. Now lets corraborate this with your evidences.... Your ISPR saw two planes crashing and in a hurry claimed two pilots in custody but when he realised it was not an Indian ac but a PAF ac there was anothet statement issued immediately saying there was only 1 pilot. Dude,.. doesnt it ring a bell to you ?? lo.l RIP to the PAF pilot if he is dead. ISPR knows it and is covering this biiiig time. lol
> 
> Oh BTW the plane pics ?? if Kashmiris can see the chooper crash why cant they see indian crash of mig if thats what your ISPR is claiming to have shot down two migs..lol Ask dude ask.


Ok so ask your second mig 21 pilot who apparently escaped to give us the "real" details

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## Enigma SIG

Mirza Jatt said:


> 2 planes crashed as per your ISPR. one iAF one PAF. If DGISPR can show 1 Indian plane and pilot why not other one if indeed it was an INDian pilot. Stop your jingosm and ask serious questions to your govt.


An F-16 was claimed by your IAF. If indeed it was; where is the proof? Stop your jingoism and ask serious questions to your govt.


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## Rafael

Mirza Jatt said:


> ok your post seems on track so let me ask step by step.
> 
> Yes you are right we dont have pics of downed PAF place.. but bro thats the point.. the plane fell in your territory...infact even abhimanyu's plane fell in your territory. Abhimanyu was infact inside your territory as he chased your jets all the way to your territory.. thats where he got hit. Now lets corraborate this with your evidences.... Your ISPR saw two planes crashing and in a hurry claimed two pilots in custody but when he realised it was not an Indian ac but a PAF ac there was anothet statement issued immediately saying there was only 1 pilot. Dude,.. doesnt it ring a bell to you ?? lo.l RIP to the PAF pilot if he is dead. ISPR knows it and is covering this biiiig time. lol
> 
> Oh BTW the plane pics ?? if Kashmiris can see the chooper crash why cant they see indian crash of mig if thats what your ISPR is claiming to have shot down two migs..lol Ask dude ask.



We can release the HUD video of your plane being shot down. Can you?

Also, in this day and age, their are no friendly fires.


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## Mirza Jatt

Enigma SIG said:


> IAF should release details of the engagement and claim an F-16 kill. Baaton ka bonsra koi bi bna skta hai.



Of course it should. I am all for it. But bro.. for a moment lets calm down and ask the same question to you..if ISPR has two pilots and to wkills..and if they can realse all pics.. then shouldnt they release the other pilot details or even other plane details ?? Agreed ?



Rafael said:


> We can release the HUD video of your plane being shot down. Can you?
> 
> Also, in this day and age, their are no friendly fires.



Ofcourse you can. But have you ??


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## ProudPak

Mirza Jatt said:


> 2 planes crashed as per your ISPR. one iAF one PAF. If DGISPR can show 1 Indian plane and pilot why not other one if indeed it was an INDian pilot. Stop your jingosm and ask serious questions to your govt.


Omg the other landed on your side. Dippy. And kashmiris showed you by chanting pakistan zindabad. Now dippy the helicopter is at another site. Was that ok dippy. Are you with us now ?


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## mohsen

Enigma SIG said:


> Pics or it didn't happen. Don't regurgitate propaganda.
> 
> 
> Pics or it didn't happen.


1.Indian published the dogfight clip plus that F16 ID picture.
2.Pakistanis stories of the three captured pilots and false claims of shooting down the Su30 and MIG29 hugely discredited them.
That's how I reached this conclusion.


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## CriticalThought

Mirza Jatt said:


> ok your post seems on track so let me ask step by step.
> 
> Yes you are right we dont have pics of downed PAF place.. but bro thats the point.. the plane fell in your territory...infact even abhimanyu's plane fell in your territory. Abhimanyu was infact inside your territory as he chased your jets all the way to your territory.. thats where he got hit. Now lets corraborate this with your evidences.... Your ISPR saw two planes crashing and in a hurry claimed two pilots in custody but when he realised it was not an Indian ac but a PAF ac there was anothet statement issued immediately saying there was only 1 pilot. Dude,.. doesnt it ring a bell to you ?? lo.l RIP to the PAF pilot if he is dead. ISPR knows it and is covering this biiiig time. lol
> 
> Oh BTW the plane pics ?? if Kashmiris can see the chooper crash why cant they see indian crash of mig if thats what your ISPR is claiming to have shot down two migs..lol Ask dude ask.



There will be detailed records from Indian AEWACS. Last time when India shot down Atlantique, they came inside Pakistani .territory and drag away a piece. The side which looses an aircraft becomes spooked. India had the option of photographing the wreckage from a helicopter. But they were so spooked, they didn't even dare to fly sorties over Kashmir until much later. These are all circumstantial evidences that support Pakistan's narrative.


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## Mirza Jatt

Enigma SIG said:


> An F-16 was claimed by your IAF. If indeed it was; where is the proof? Stop your jingoism and ask serious questions to your govt.



See our SOcial media... we are pushing our govt to release flight details and pics... thats because evey one belives in proofs... but can you please ask ythis question to your govt ? I infact see only chest thumping.


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## Tps43

Enigma SIG said:


> Pics or it didn't happen. Don't regurgitate propaganda.
> 
> 
> Pics or it didn't happen.


He is anti Pakistan irani who is up for destruction of pakistan he should be permanently banned asap

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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> ok your post seems on track so let me ask step by step.
> 
> Yes you are right we dont have pics of downed PAF place.. but bro thats the point.. the plane fell in your territory...infact even abhimanyu's plane fell in your territory. Abhimanyu was infact inside your territory as he chased your jets all the way to your territory.. thats where he got hit. Now lets corraborate this with your evidences.... Your ISPR saw two planes crashing and in a hurry claimed two pilots in custody but when he realised it was not an Indian ac but a PAF ac there was anothet statement issued immediately saying there was only 1 pilot. Dude,.. doesnt it ring a bell to you ?? lo.l RIP to the PAF pilot if he is dead. ISPR knows it and is covering this biiiig time. lol
> 
> Oh BTW the plane pics ?? if Kashmiris can see the chooper crash why cant they see indian crash of mig if thats what your ISPR is claiming to have shot down two migs..lol Ask dude ask.


So all your esteemed satellites are worthless?

Interesting no "villager" even posted the pictures of such a crash..

Sure ISPR talked about 2 planes shot down he said 2nd one fell on your side and the Kashmiris shared a video showing it hence proven! I am not sure what you told the Iranian @mohesen to preach


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## Great Janjua

mohsen said:


> 1.Indian published the dogfight clip plus that F16 ID picture.
> 2.Pakistanis stories of the three captured pilots and false claims of shooting down the Su30 and MIG29 hugely discredited them.
> That's how I reached this conclusion.


Which F-16 ID picture please enlighten us all

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## frashid30@hotmail.com

Mirza Jatt said:


> 2 planes crashed as per your ISPR. one iAF one PAF. If DGISPR can show 1 Indian plane and pilot why not other one if indeed it was an INDian pilot. Stop your jingosm and ask serious questions to your govt.


Your own news channels have shown an Indian two seat jet crashed in IOK. Pakistan has shown a mig bison in pk. Do that's two Indian planes. My cousin is an f16 pilot. No f16 were involved in the raid or subsequent engagement. All pk F16 are operational.

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## Tps43

Dubious said:


> Do point out what you "assume" as false news...I am not sure how Iranian media works ...Who knows what you are viewing as false is the real news us people in the modern world understand!
> 
> Ok, based on which pictures and video did you conclude that? We are still awaiting for doctrine videos and pics of our fighters shot down...we took few hrs to release the video of our POW...what is taking india forever?
> 
> The mockery is on you...As a moderator I have the right to remove and negative rate your FALSE news/propagation...If it is due to your lack of analytical skills that is just collateral damage


He is in denial lets pray he doesn’t go into depression

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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> we are pushing our govt to release flight details and pics


And you would think the chest thumping baboon you call PM who is dying for a win for some elections would HIDE such a video/ pics/ details? 

Not sure how hard you need to lie to make it become the truth

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## Rahil khan

Mirza Jatt said:


> This is an act of war. What else do you expect india to do? you targetted military target.



This was the act of retaliation. Act of war initiated by India through violating Pakistan airspace, attempting to target civilian population inside Pakistani territory. As i was hearing India media yesterday, they were trying to convince viewers that our action was for the purpose to counter terrorism....Hamari Niiyaat Yeh thee....MY FOOT. Violating international borders, trying to legitimise preemptive strikes than calling it counter terrorism act...which world you folks live in ? PAF exercised the right to defend it's integrity, sovereignty, people and freedom. You raise one finger, shall be received through knockout punch. If you mess with the bull while testing another level, will get the horns. The sooner you understand, better it would be for entire people of subcontinent. 

[/QUOTE]Hun ta shuru hoya ae. pellla tuwada ispr da U turn. te hun tuwadi ministry da peace offer.[/QUOTE]

Just listen our PM's speech again..Yesterday events were purely for the purpose of delivering loud and clear messag but both countries cannot indulge in such catastrophic games while having nuclear deterrent. Both countries have missiles, military hardware and tactical weapons. Wishfulness for peace isn't the sign of weakness. Just listen to your PM's speech vs ours yesterday...just compare the tone, attitude....Tumharay media, establishment, political propaganda machinery nay tum Indians ko war phobia kay jiss tower per charha diya hay...wahan say utarnaa sub ko mushkil nazar aa raha hay.


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## waz

Mirza Jatt said:


> This is an act of war. What else do you expect india to do? you targetted military target.



Ter jaa yaar. Didn’t the IAF cross the border first and strike Pakistani land?

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## Tps43

mohsen said:


> 1.Indian published the dogfight clip plus that F16 ID picture.
> 2.Pakistanis stories of the three captured pilots and false claims of shooting down the Su30 and MIG29 hugely discredited them.
> That's how I reached this conclusion.


Care to show that clip and F 16 id pic I will be the first one to apologize otherwise u must prepare for fallout


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## Enigma SIG

Mirza Jatt said:


> Of course it should. I am all for it. But bro.. for a moment lets calm down and ask the same question to you..if ISPR has two pilots and to wkills..and if they can realse all pics.. then shouldnt they release the other pilot details or even other plane details ?? Agreed ?
> ??


ISPR wouldn't show all the cards they have as they've got India by the balls. Probably getting some nice juicy intel from those 2; IF they survived their injuries (ISPR did say they were taken to CMH).


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## El Sidd

mohsen said:


> I as a neutral guy against you



What kind of a contradictory statement is that?

You are neutral yet still against us.

Its like saying i am a heterosexual gay man.

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## mohsen

Great Janjua said:


> Which F-16 ID picture please enlighten us all


members posted here about ten pages ago. or more, threads merged.


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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> why cant they see indian crash of mig


which planet do you live on? Did indian media hide this info from you guys? Even BBC aired it

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## Tps43

Great Janjua said:


> Which F-16 ID picture please enlighten us all


Esdi tui da xray hoye gaa paa jee

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## Mirza Jatt

CriticalThought said:


> There will be detailed records from Indian AEWACS. Last time when India shot down Atlantique, they came inside Pakistani .territory and drag away a piece. The side which looses an aircraft becomes spooked. India had the option of photographing the wreckage from a helicopter. But they were so spooked, they didn't even dare to fly sorties over Kashmir until much later. These are all circumstantial evidences that support Pakistan's narrative.



Are you even serious ?? IAF penetrated deep inside Pakistan and there was so much criticism againts PAF. Our one mig was shot down when we were shooting down your plane. That shows the kind of readiness both sides have. even a kid knows what will happen to c helicopter if he goes inside each other territoryie.lol On a non hostile environment..yes. Morover if pics of wreckage was the only proof then you dnt need to belive that IAF bombed balako either because IAF didnt take pics.. but we all know it did right ? SO it works that way buddy


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## Enigma SIG

Mirza Jatt said:


> See our SOcial media... we are pushing our govt to release flight details and pics... thats because evey one belives in proofs... but can you please ask ythis question to your govt ? I infact see only chest thumping.


Should've asked for the 350+ confirmed killed in Balakot; lets start from there shall we? Let us know when you get undeniable proof. No; signboards pointing to the building don't count.

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## Great Janjua

mohsen said:


> members posted here about ten pages ago. or more, threads merged.


You mean the wreckage pics that are off the Mig 21

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## Dubious

Great Janjua said:


> Which F-16 ID picture please enlighten us all


the ones he saw in his dreams

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## Tps43

Retired Troll said:


> What kind of a contradictory statement is that?
> 
> You are neutral yet still against us.
> 
> Its like saying i am a heterosexual gay man.


He is

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## Mirza Jatt

Dubious said:


> which planet do you live on? Did indian media hide this info from you guys? Even BBC aired it



You didnt even understand what I wrote. re read and come again.


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## Great Janjua

Tps43 said:


> Esdi tui da xray hoye gaa paa jee


Let him be veer ji

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## BijliKhala

ghazi52 said:


>



Buddy, I cannot see your posted images.


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## El Sidd

Tps43 said:


> He is



Give him kheer

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## Enigma SIG

Mirza Jatt said:


> Are you even serious ?? IAF penetrated deep inside Pakistan and there was so much criticism againts PAF. Our one mig was shot down when we were shooting down your plane. That shows the kind of readiness both sides have. even a kid knows what will happen to c helicopter if he goes inside each other territoryie.lol On a non hostile environment..yes. Morover if pics of wreckage was the only proof then you dnt need to belive that IAF bombed balako either because IAF didnt take pics.. but we all know it did right ? SO it works that way buddy


Are you 5? All you folks hear is PENETRATION. I thought India was an educated country. What happened to basic physics taught in schools. Run some calculations on projectiles and how far they travel. Get back to me when you're done.

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## Tps43

Retired Troll said:


> Give him kheer


I’ll get his kon

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## Rafael

Mirza Jatt said:


> Of course it should. I am all for it. But bro.. for a moment lets calm down and ask the same question to you..if ISPR has two pilots and to wkills..and if they can realse all pics.. then shouldnt they release the other pilot details or even other plane details ?? Agreed ?
> 
> 
> 
> Ofcourse you can. But have you ??



We will all in due time. Let these hostilities end. By the way, do you lot seriously beliieve mig 21 can shoot down and F-16? 

How gullible


----------



## NA71

mohsen said:


> members posted here about ten pages ago. or more, threads merged.


Sir please leave us here, you already have a lot of mess around the world to feed your knowledge appetite. Please

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## mohsen

Retired Troll said:


> What kind of a contradictory statement is that?
> 
> You are neutral yet still against us.
> 
> Its like saying i am a heterosexual gay man.


I'm interested in the truth, if I reach the conclusion that one of your jets has been shot down, it doesn't mean that I'm against you. it means either that has happened or you have lost the propaganda war.

Perhaps mod should have warned the Pakistani members, when they were saying we shot down Indian SU30, we captured three pilots, etc.


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## Mentee

mohsen said:


> members posted here about ten pages ago. or more, threads merged.


Yiu guys are jealous of the fact that the first kill scored by our Jf 17 was of an irnain drone Don't believe us fine, follow their foreign office's statements.

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## mohsen

nahmed71 said:


> Sir please leave us here, you already have a lot of mess around the world to feed your knowledge appetite. Please


Why you don't ask mods to make this thread private for you?!


----------



## Mentee

mohsen said:


> I'm interested in the truth, if I reach the conclusion that one of your jets has been shot down, it doesn't mean that I'm against you. it means either that has happened or you have lost the propaganda war.
> 
> Perhaps mod should have warned the Pakistani members, when they were saying we shot down Indian SU30, we captured three pilots, etc.



Its not a cycle that an airfirce can hide for too long. All serial numbers and other stuff could be tracked down by the owner and manufacturer as well.

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## waz

mohsen said:


> I'm interested in the truth, if I reach the conclusion that one of your jets has been shot down, it doesn't mean that I'm against you. it means either that has happened or you have lost the propaganda war.
> 
> Perhaps mod should have warned the Pakistani members, when they were saying we shot down Indian SU30, we captured three pilots, etc.



Then your conclusion is wrong and there’s zero evidence of this anywhere on any media platform.

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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> You didnt even understand what I wrote. re read and come again.


O I understood the delusional dust hasnt settled....there are multiple threads running with picture and video proof with no one denying that is india in present!


Dusra pilot? - from the video...Indian accent





Associated press in india checking out the shot down plane that LANDED IN IOK:






THIS is called video proof!

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## Tps43

Mentee said:


> Yiu guys are jealous of the fact that the first kill scored by our Jf 17 was of an irnain drone Don't believe us fine, follow their foreign office's statements.


And second , third of their brothers lol

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## Great Janjua

mohsen said:


> I'm interested in the truth, if I reach the conclusion that one of your jets has been shot down, it doesn't mean that I'm against you. it means either that has happened or you have lost the propaganda war.
> 
> Perhaps mod should have warned the Pakistani members, when they were saying we shot down Indian SU30, we captured three pilots, etc.


You came to the conclusion like by what????any evidence or just random brain farts if you are so keen to expose our PROPAGANDA please provide proof,We have provided the media with evidence not just mere random statements and left without even taking any questions talking about Indians here.......

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## Hayreddin

What india is trying to hide that their air superioirty supaa dupaa fighter jet su 30 mki is shoot down like pigeon from sky by our JF 17 thunder jet . 

Abhi nandan was su30 mki pilot and was flying su30 .

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## Tps43

waz said:


> Then your conclusion is wrong and there’s zero evidence of this anywhere on any media platform.


U should take actions against lies and false info

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## El Sidd

mohsen said:


> I'm interested in the truth, if I reach the conclusion that one of your jets has been shot down, it doesn't mean that I'm against you. it means either that has happened or you have lost the propaganda war.
> 
> Perhaps mod should have warned the Pakistani members, when they were saying we shot down Indian SU30, we captured three pilots, etc.



But are you not part of that propaganda war by alluding to propagated theories cultivated for political gains in Delhi?

Why do you think Pakistan would hide such a loss given the position of being on the other side of the offensive? 

It is one of most monitored airspace in the world, the LOC, and any jet downed would be traceable even in the hysteria of War. Did you not go through the Indian Statement in the aftermath

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## Lincoln

Mirza Jatt said:


> haha.. the harder you try to abuse me. The bigger the lie you are not willing to accept. Deep inside (as deep as the IAf penetrated inside Pakistan..and you know how deep) you know that ISPR took a U turn.
> 
> You the biggest difference between India and Pakistan ? our media is shit and yours is comparitively better.. but thats known by Indian public hence they always look for truth. If it was Indian spokesperson who would havetaken a U turn..our seculars (who are in a large number) would have teared the Govt up for hiding the truth. we have to many Arundhati Roy's here.
> 
> But for just one moment..ask yourself guys.... why would ISPR say two pilots and then within moments change their stance to 1 pilot ?? I can post the video but in no mood really... face the reality guys.. everyone on border saw it... one IAf and 1 PAf aircraft went up in smoke. Cheers



Are you saying that we cannot recognize our own pilot's uniform or costume? You clearly saw that we had interrogated the service number right on the spot of arrest, its in the video. It looked like procedure. Same would be done for 'PAF pilot' if that was the case. 

That's the most retarded shit I have heard to date. That we cannot recognize our own uniform, pilot, and what's next? We didn't ask him his serial number?



Mirza Jatt said:


> ok for moment i agree for the sake of argument it was near LOC where the payload was dropped but the penetration was deep. Works for you ? am ok with it if we caught PAF with pants down. On the on the contrary our Migs..lol the cold era migs intercepted you immediate you crossed and when you were runningg they chased you deep inside your territory ?? heck even our pilot abhimanyu and his place crashed in your border to prove it to you guys. We chased you back even inside your own territory. Chest thumping is good on forums ... but ask Imran khan why is he sending peace offer every now and then..oh I heard he is willing to give back the pilot to ease the tensions..lol



Stop reading WhatsApp messages too much. Imran Khan is sending a peace offer not because he is afraid, this nation is not afraid, but for the better of the region. Remember, your wing commander is with us. Your friends at /r/india have already realized the truth, so should you. Do not test our resolve!

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## Mirza Jatt

Dubious said:


> O I understood the delusional dust hasnt settled....there are multiple threads running with picture and video proof with no one denying that is india in present!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 parachutes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusra pilot? - from the video...Indian accent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Associated press in india checking out the shot down plane that LANDED IN IOK:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is called video proof!




haha exactly my point. 2 planes crashed. bot crashed in the same spot. if one is with you..where is the other one ?? is that too hard to understand ?? lol


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## Great Janjua

Mirza Jatt said:


> haha exactly my point. 2 planes crashed. bot crashed in the same spot. if one is with you..where is the other one ?? is that too hard to understand ?? lol


The other one should be with India since it fell in IOK

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## mohsen

Mentee said:


> Yiu guys are jealous of the fact that the first kill scored by our Jf 17 was of an irnain drone Don't believe us fine, follow their foreign office's statements.


You are wrong. I suppose any fighter jet should be able to shoot down a drone.
I will enjoy any advancement by Pakistan.


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## Tps43

Retired Troll said:


> But are you not part of that propaganda war by alluding to propagated theories cultivated for political gains in Delhi?
> 
> Why do you think Pakistan would hide such a loss given the position of being on the other side of the offensive?
> 
> It is one of most monitored airspace in the world, the LOC, and any jet downed would be traceable even in the hysteria of War. Did you not go through the Indian Statement in the aftermath


Anything against Pakistan is credible for him

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## Dubious

mohsen said:


> I'm interested in the truth,


I stopped reading after that...Coz if you were the least bit interested in the truth you would have taken the time to browse through ALL sources from DIFFERENT media/ websites/ forums and the very least checked this 1 thread which is FULL of video evidence...None supporting your conclusion! Only a brainwashed can conclude without evidence like you did! Esp with picture and video evidence stating the opposite

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## Enigma SIG

Mirza Jatt said:


> haha exactly my point. 2 planes crashed. bot crashed in the same spot. if one is with you..where is the other one ?? is that too hard to understand ?? lol


Really now? Showing the IAF airshow crash to prove your point. What the **** is going on?


----------



## Mentee

Tps43 said:


> And second , third of their brothers lol


See how they are cheering for kashmiri killers ? And we used to send volunteers and trains full of ammo to fight saddam. Pathetic!

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## Tps43

Mentee said:


> See how they are cheering for kashmiri killers ? And we used to send volunteers and trains full of ammo to fight saddam. Pathetic!


And that too during zia time’s whom they hate the most .

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## HRK

SHAH820 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100995296052441088
> View attachment 542786
> 
> 
> there is a difference in all the images


the biggest prove of their (Indian) blind hatred toward Pakistan and low IQ is that Indians are not even able to differentiate b/w concave and convex shapes .... they are posting this shity propaganda at their official news agency..... really they deserve to be a laughingstock

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## Benign Persona

Retired Troll said:


> Give him kheer


kheer or kheera?


----------



## Tps43

Benign Persona said:


> kheer or kheera?


Both but I will get there Kon


----------



## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> IAF penetrated deep inside Pakistan


few km is not deep for a fighter jet!

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## CriticalThought

Mirza Jatt said:


> Are you even serious ?? IAF penetrated deep inside Pakistan and there was so much criticism againts PAF. Our one mig was shot down when we were shooting down your plane. That shows the kind of readiness both sides have. even a kid knows what will happen to c helicopter if he goes inside each other territoryie.lol On a non hostile environment..yes. Morover if pics of wreckage was the only proof then you dnt need to belive that IAF bombed balako either because IAF didnt take pics.. but we all know it did right ? SO it works that way buddy



Serious logical confusion. When I say helicopter, I expect you to use common sense and understand it can be any aerial platform, even a drone. A simple understanding of physics reveals that you simply need a more powerful camera to take a picture from further away. These days cameras can take pics from space. You are telling me you couldn't spare a drone to confirm your kill which is your nation's war trophy? At this point, you need to shut up and eat dirt. Otherwise on this forum, we also know how to make Indians eat dirt.

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## bananarepublic

SHAH820 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100995296052441088
> View attachment 542786
> 
> 
> there is a difference in all the images



LOL
Pakistan uses Pratt and Whitney F100 engines not GE F110


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## AndrewJin

Amazingly sukkessful Surgika Strika orchestrated by the omnipotent Tejas babies.
Congrats to hindu militarie and indigenous defence industrie

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## Mirza Jatt

Great Janjua said:


> The other one should be with India since it fell in IOK



haha.. bai tussi prove karta tussi vi jatt ho. lol. O video vekh lo ik vari. both plane fell in the same place...even akid can see that. Its either Indian side or Pakistani side... bu since one is already in Pakistan side of which you are showing the pic then how come other is in Indian side ??

secondly.. we were chasing PAf since it was (as per your claim) were lured into the trap of coming to pakistani side before shooting ?? then how come you shot one in Indian side ..lol Koi na Janjua saab.

Khair hor batao kitthey rehnde o tussi Punjab ch ?


----------



## Dubious

Dubious said:


> 2 parachutes:



Ok I take these 2 back they are 1 week old when 2 indian planes crashed into each other...I found the full footage and these 2 seem to be made from part of this:







However, we still have a pilot on record, a plane crash site on record, a BBC and AP documentary and interview on sight in IOK for 2 IDF planes...



Mirza Jatt said:


> O video vekh lo ik vari.


O video was wrong and I have just corrected this: 


Dubious said:


> Ok I take these 2 back they are 1 week old when 2 indian planes crashed into each other...I found the full footage and these 2 seem to be made from part of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, we still have a pilot on record, a plane crash site on record, a BBC and AP documentary and interview on sight in IOK for 2 IDF planes...


----------



## Great Janjua

Mirza Jatt said:


> haha.. bai tussi prove karta tussi vi jatt ho. lol. O video vekh lo ik vari. both plane fell in the same place...even akid can see that. Its either Indian side or Pakistani side... bu since one is already in Pakistan side of which you are showing the pic then how come other is in Indian side ??
> 
> secondly.. we were chasing PAf since it was (as per your claim) were lured into the trap of coming to pakistani side before shooting ?? then how come you shot one in Indian side ..lol Koi na Janjua saab.
> 
> Khair hor batao kitthey rehnde o tussi Punjab ch ?


Zila Gujrat Tehsil Kharian Pind Awana #BringBackColHabib

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## arbit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
Its an F 16 alrite


----------



## Lincoln

Mirza Jatt said:


> haha.. bai tussi prove karta tussi vi jatt ho. lol. O video vekh lo ik vari. both plane fell in the same place...even akid can see that. Its either Indian side or Pakistani side... bu since one is already in Pakistan side of which you are showing the pic then how come other is in Indian side ??
> 
> secondly.. we were chasing PAf since it was (as per your claim) were lured into the trap of coming to pakistani side before shooting ?? then how come you shot one in Indian side ..lol Koi na Janjua saab.
> 
> Khair hor batao kitthey rehnde o tussi Punjab ch ?



Everything is relative, they could have been very close to LOC, assuming the video is valid. From your, the viewers perspective, the planes are far and are falling almost parallel to the direction of your sight, in such a case, you cannot tell how far a plane goes, and only tell how low it goes.


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## Dubious

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
> Its an F 16 alrite


And why isnt it aired on mainstream media?

Jordan crash being aired as Pakistani? 

and that too on Twitter only? Havent heard any official announcement...Indian taking time for such a "historical shoot?"


----------



## BijliKhala

fitpOsitive said:


> Any picture? We already have posted.



Indians got visuals of shot down F-16

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## Agha Sher

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
> Its an F 16 alrite



Stop being so retarded, the same picture from another angle clearly shows an indian flag.

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## mohsen

waz said:


> Then your conclusion is wrong and there’s zero evidence of this anywhere on any media platform.


It's what you say and you may be right, but my point was that mods should be more tolerant.
*Pakistan says has only one downed Indian pilot | Reuters*


> Pakistan’s chief military spokesman said on Wednesday the Pakistani army currently had only one downed Indian pilot in custody, having previously said two pilots had been captured, one of whom was wounded.



My point was that instead of negative rating my comment, answer above paradox, do you know what that news means?
*Is it too much demand in a discussion?!*


----------



## CHACHA"G"

mohsen said:


> You are wrong. I suppose any fighter jet should be able to shoot down a drone.
> I will enjoy any advancement by Pakistan.


hey stronk P.P I forgot ………… You have worlds best Radars and EW eqm.. Why not you ask you mullah to show the data of Pakistani F-16 going down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me you are not able to pick that up...….. 
Dont tell me your Stronk Air defence failed...…….. If you cannot pick up Pakistani Jets what will you do with your girl friend (Isreali) Jets...….

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## Hareeb

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100949923435036672

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## Mr.Cringeworth

mohsen said:


> 1.Indian published the dogfight clip plus that F16 ID picture.
> 2.Pakistanis stories of the three captured pilots and false claims of shooting down the Su30 and MIG29 hugely discredited them.
> That's how I reached this conclusion.


Where is the f16 id picture, stop lying.

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## El Sidd

BijliKhala said:


> Indians got visuals of shot down F-16
> View attachment 542888



please do not reveal our raseelay assets


----------



## Dubious

mohsen said:


> It's what you say and you may be right, but my point was that mods should be more tolerant.
> *Pakistan says has only one downed Indian pilot | Reuters*


1 pilot with us...2 burnt in IOK...you can ask India


----------



## Agha Sher

mohsen said:


> It's what you say and you may be right, but my point was that mods should be more tolerant.
> *Pakistan says has only one downed Indian pilot | Reuters*
> 
> 
> My point was that instead of negative rating my comment, answer above paradox, do you know what that news means?
> *Is it too much demand in a discussion?!*



A plausible explanation, since IAF refuses to accept the 2nd loss, Pakistan can keep the injured pilot and torture/interrogate him in Pakistan, without any public backlash. Thus, by declaring that he does not exist, and nobody to object that declaration, Pakistan can do whatever they want with him.

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## b4umsf

Only for indians please


----------



## Areesh

Mirza Jatt said:


> lol.. why did you even post this bro.. should have let them live in their false dream fed by ISPR. rofl.



So you are also one of those idiots that believes you have shot down a F16

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## Mirza Jatt

Alternatiiv said:


> Everything is relative, they could have been very close to LOC, assuming the video is valid. From your, the viewers perspective, the planes are far and are falling almost parallel to the direction of your sight, in such a case, you cannot tell how far a plane goes, and only tell how low it goes.



I agree. Infact both the planes are flying away from the viewers. and am not even surprised both fell on Pakistani side.


----------



## Lincoln

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
> Its an F 16 alrite



According to the website, the serial is 78-0269, not 80269. And also, according to the database, it is in ACTIVE use of the Jordanian Air Force. The website has several abbreviations mentioned.

*[act]* Active
*[i/a]* Instructional Airframe
*[sto]* Stored (e.g. at AMARG)
*[cld]* Cancelled Order
*[msh]* Involved in Mishap
*[w/o]* Write-off
*[con]* Converted
*[o/o]* On Order
*[des]* Destroyed (drone)
*[pre]* Preserved (museum, gateguard)
*T/V* LM Aero Type/Version (Construction) number
*[emb]* Embargoed
*[scr]* Scrapped




Photo Available

It is listed clearly as [act] with JRAF since 2009.

Its pictures: http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/269/.

Lastly, that's a F-16B Block 20 MLU. Pakistan doesn't operate those.

Check this. Search for 78-0269, no result.
https://www.scramble.nl/index.php?option=com_mildb&view=search

Debunked:-

I am lost how to upload the damn picture, so I simply attached it here below.

S/N are in the 5 digits, the S/N of the accused aircraft is J-269. As you can see, all Aircraft no. are In the 6 digits with a dash.
Also, https://www.scramble.nl/index.php?option=com_mildb&view=search&Itemid=60&af=pk. You can search for both codes, on the website under Pakistan category. Results are nil.

For further clarity, the F-16B MLU refers to F-16BM, Pakistan doesn't operate MLU's. Pakistan doesn't possess any F-16AM's or F-16BM's; F-16B and F-16BM are two different variants.

EDIT: FURTHER PROOF; http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/269/, in the pictures you can CLEARLY see that it is a twin seater fighter jet. Doesn't align with the Indian narrative that the 2nd pilot we claimed to have in custody is our own, one pilot doesn't fly a twin seater.

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## Mirza Jatt

Areesh said:


> So you are also one of those idiots that believes you have shot down a F16



I am more interested in tracking down idiots who belive in your ISPR who said 2 then said 1 pilot. Are you one of em intelligent ones ?


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## CHACHA"G"

Dubious said:


> 1 pilot with us...2 burnt in IOK...you can ask India


Funny thing is , Indian just remove parts of one jet from near LOC …… No one asking them ! Which jet it was ? And how that felllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Nearrrrrrrrrrrrrrr LOC...…………. lol Not even sronk Persian parsis..

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## Areesh

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
> Its an F 16 alrite



Check this joker out

@DESERT FIGHTER @Windjammer



Mirza Jatt said:


> I am more interested in tracking down idiots who belive in your ISPR who said 2 then said 1 pilot. Are you one of em intelligent ones ?



So you definitely are one of those idiots


----------



## Mirza Jatt

Great Janjua said:


> Ban him already you gandus have no brain, I feel like smacking you through my phone screen



thand rakho Janjua saab. chinese maal ne ki bigadta tuwda ?

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## Bilal Khan 777

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
> Its an F 16 alrite


Russian fuselage, Russian design, Russian "Avionics Bloc", Russian Harness...Yes sure, its an F-16....Thank you for making me laugh.

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## Mirza Jatt

Areesh said:


> Check this joker out
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER @Windjammer
> 
> 
> 
> So you definitely are one of those idiots



who belive ISPR ? definitley no. to belive I ISPR i have to reach down to your level of stupidity idiot.


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## Dr. Abdul Basit

Who writes with marker on anything inside the jet engine

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## CriticalThought

Mirza Jatt said:


> lol.. why did you even post this bro.. should have let them live in their false dream fed by ISPR. rofl.



You idiot, a handwritten number with black marker ink is your proof? Do you know anything about aircraft maintenance and manufacturing? This shows your people are so insecure, they write our numbers by hand to save their face.

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## Great Janjua

Mirza Jatt said:


> thand rakho Janjua saab. chinese maal ne ki bigadta tuwda ?


Thu changa banda yaare bongia vich yakeen kari jana hain, phele sari tasveer thay vekh le


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## Bilal Khan 777

Agha Sher said:


> A plausible explanation, since IAF refuses to accept the 2nd loss, Pakistan can keep the injured pilot and torture/interrogate him in Pakistan, without any public backlash. Thus, by declaring that he does not exist, and nobody to object that declaration, Pakistan can do whatever they want with him.



This is a very logical statement. Indian media agrees that a Mig-21 fleet in Indian administered Kashmir, due to technical reasons. Lets just ignore all the splinter marks on the fuselage for a moment, but where are the pilots from that crash? Lets just keep quiet about it, they say say MIA (not produced a body yet), and when their family throws a fit. One or two pilots, this would be so much more embarrassing for India, which already has this AF's morale blown to smithereens. What happened to the Bison? I think it ran straight for the Qurbani...

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## maximuswarrior

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Indians jerking off like they have conquered Pakistan.
> 
> Flew a jet for a couple of minutes in our territory and all they could do is empty their bombs over an empty forest.
> 
> Indian celebrations will be short lived. Now it is our turn. We will decide the time and place.



Was I right? Can anybody confirm?

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## Areesh

Mirza Jatt said:


> who belive ISPR ? definitley no. to belive I ISPR i have to reach down to your level of stupidity idiot.



You believe that you shot down a F16. Concrete proof that you are an idiot

As for ISPR. It told you before your MEA that we have your Abhinandan. Respect it.

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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> I agree. Infact both the planes are flying away from the viewers. and am not even surprised both fell on Pakistani side.


You mean the planes that just crashed into each other last week? sure...but like I said that was a wrong video if you are still living in the 1 week old video...we know only Modi g is for you

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## mohsen

Dubious said:


> 1 pilot with us...2 burnt in IOK...you can ask India


PDF is the best military forum in the world, the most tolerant one, still I want you to be even more tolerant.
ان شاء الله

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## Mirza Jatt

CriticalThought said:


> You idiot, a handwritten number with black marker ink is your proof? Do you know anything about aircraft maintenance and manufacturing? This shows your people are so insecure, they write our numbers by hand to save their face.



why woud you even write something on a plane box below an aircraft with a sketch pen ??


----------



## HRK

IK guaranteed the victory of Modi 







Indian POW Pilot in Pakistan will be released tomorrow

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## Areesh

HRK said:


> IK guaranteed the victory of Modi
> 
> View attachment 542894
> 
> 
> Indian POW Pilot in Pakistan will be released tomorrow



IK being an idiot like always

This guy is an idiot

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## Mirza Jatt

Great Janjua said:


> Thu changa banda yaare bongia vich yakeen kari jana hain, phele sari tasveer thay vekh le



bai tasveer ta saaf aa. ISPR kehndi 2 pilots. Yara duje plane da pic ta vekha do...Assi chup ho jana. tussi ikkoi pic dikhai jane o.


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## Dubious

mohsen said:


> PDF is the best military forum in the world, the most tolerant one, still I want you to be even more tolerant.
> ان شاء الله


Oh we are very tolerant...Look at the number of indian trolls and other members...Were we not tolerant, like on indian forums, such a number would not be getting any ranks 

Tell me 1 indian forum that has given any ranks to Pakistani members 

As for my tolerance...I have ZERO tolerance against BS and fake news! It is not just my tolerance...it is the tolerance of the world you live in...NO ONE likes a lying machine like indian news!

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## maximuswarrior

Mirza Jatt said:


> who belive ISPR ? definitley no. to belive I ISPR i have to reach down to your level of stupidity idiot.



LOL Everyone believes the Indian narrative. Everyone believes Modi.

Buddy you need to be extremely worried. Your Modi is going to be slaughtered at the upcoming elections. Many Indians are questioning Modi's bloodthirsty policies.

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## CHACHA"G"

HRK said:


> IK guaranteed the victory of Modi
> 
> View attachment 542894
> 
> 
> Indian POW Pilot in Pakistan will be released tomorrow


This is too early!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes "Abhi" have to go back...… we have to let him go,,, but this is dam to earlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

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## Areesh

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
> Its an F 16 alrite



Check this joker out

@DESERT FIGHTER @Windjammer


----------



## Dubious

Areesh said:


> IK being an idiot like always
> 
> This guy is an idiot


Oh its an olive branch ...we need good TRP rating at international level...we are already enjoying the "india transgressed LOC" treat....

Say we return pilot and india still behaves like a baboon...well then we have every right to say we tried now die

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## El Sidd

Dubious said:


> Oh we are very tolerant...Look at the number of indian trolls and other members...Were we not tolerant, like on indian forums, such a number would not be getting any ranks
> 
> Tell me 1 indian forum that has given any ranks to Pakistani members
> 
> As for my tolerance...I have ZERO tolerance against BS and fake news! It is not just my tolerance...it is the tolerance of the world you live in...NO ONE likes a lying machine like indian news!



well you can close this thread now. the pilot is going back after biscuit and tea. the great merciful googly Khan just announced his return.


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## Dubious

CHACHA"G" said:


> This is too early!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes "Abhi" have to go back...… we have to let him go,,, but this is dam to earlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


Hey if they dont de-escalate then the deal will be off the table...
After all we are the peace lovers not them....so peace has to start from us

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## Mirza Jatt

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Everyone believes the Indian narrative. Everyone believes Modi.
> 
> Buddy you need to be extremely worried. Your Modi is going to be slaughtered at the upcoming elections. Many Indians are questioning Modi's bloodthirsty policies.



sober words dont suit you. I will have to take you seriously otherwise. Yo need to swear and abuse Indians in reply...thats how you have created your image. arent you the one who was abusing me in other thread... buddy I have my own rules.. I can be funny and sarcastic but i will never abuse you or your family thats how I was brought up..even if its a war going on. not interested in engaging with you..yeah am scared.


----------



## Areesh

Dubious said:


> Oh its an olive branch ...we need good TRP rating at international level...we are already enjoying the "india transgressed LOC" treat....
> 
> Say we return pilot and india still behaves like a baboon...well then we have every right to say we tried now die



Should have released him once we are confirmed that bharatis have realized their auqat and won't escalate further


----------



## Tps43

CHACHA"G" said:


> Hey Persian Parsi…… I was avoiding you , but look like other Pakistani members are too soft for you …. Now let me start with you P.p(Persian/parsi).
> You looking for truth ???? Same here I am too looking for truth , "how Sunni Iran become Shia Iran ? What happened 400 to 500 years ago?".... Why and what your so called revolutionary mullah doing in France? ….. And you don't worry about your hindu brothers , tell me when you will going to send IAF(I-ran air force) to attack Pakistan , where are your so called best in the world missiles force ? when will you going to drop some on Pakistan ..
> You Stronk P/P...……
> LOL on F-16 loss...….. Persian your girl friend isreal will lunch media propaganda if they have any proves … Even USA wont stay quite on this...…… And Su-30 , Indian media saying SU-30s intercepted Pakistani birds , so the bird which went down in IOK (near border) is SU-30 ……
> Now shoooo ……….. start some fire and start your agni puja.
> 
> @Tps43 , don't worry bro , I will troll his azz …. Mods did not ban him , even after his cries and shi!t talks...……. Now let me deal with this Stronk Mullah worshiper…..


I was thinking the same he aint replying me back bcz he know what can I do lol


----------



## Areesh

Alternatiiv said:


> According to the website, the serial is 78-0269, not 80269. And also, according to the database, it is in ACTIVE use of the Jordanian Air Force. The website has several abbreviations mentioned.
> 
> *[act]* Active
> *[i/a]* Instructional Airframe
> *[sto]* Stored (e.g. at AMARG)
> *[cld]* Cancelled Order
> *[msh]* Involved in Mishap
> *[w/o]* Write-off
> *[con]* Converted
> *[o/o]* On Order
> *[des]* Destroyed (drone)
> *[pre]* Preserved (museum, gateguard)
> *T/V* LM Aero Type/Version (Construction) number
> *[emb]* Embargoed
> *[scr]* Scrapped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo Available
> 
> It is listed clearly as [act] with JRAF since 2009.
> 
> Its pictures: http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/269/.
> 
> Lastly, that's a F-16B Block 20 MLU. Pakistan doesn't operate those.
> 
> Check this. Search for 78-0269, no result.
> https://www.scramble.nl/index.php?option=com_mildb&view=search
> 
> Debunked:-
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> <blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/xJY4NL7"><a href="//imgur.com/xJY4NL7"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
> 
> 
> S/N are in the 5 digits, the S/N of the accused aircraft is J-269. As you can see, all Aircraft no. are In the 6 digits with a dash.
> Also, https://www.scramble.nl/index.php?option=com_mildb&view=search&Itemid=60&af=pk. You can search for both codes, on the website under Pakistan category. Results are nil.



Brilliant work bro

@arbit Feeling humiliated?? Or you guys don't feel that?

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## Dubious

Retired Troll said:


> well you can close this thread now. the pilot is going back after biscuit and tea. the great merciful googly Khan just announced his return.


Well we dont want to waste our biscuits and tea on him....

We have shown the world circus what we wanted to show them:
1) We arent the war mongers
2) We didnt start this
3) We know how to respect international treaties and rights - if we can protect a POW we def can protect our citizens

If he stays or goes...he has served his purpose! WE have recorded confession we are not blood thirsty even to the enemy!


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## Mirza Jatt

HRK said:


> IK guaranteed the victory of Modi
> 
> View attachment 542894
> 
> 
> Indian POW Pilot in Pakistan will be released tomorrow



I think the worse here for Pakistan is that hey have confirmed the date. They should have not confirmed the date. That would have been a good bargaining chip in case they really wanted a de escalation.


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## Bilal Khan 777

HRK said:


> IK guaranteed the victory of Modi
> 
> View attachment 542894
> 
> 
> Indian POW Pilot in Pakistan will be released tomorrow



Its a reminder of their defeat and very insulting. Makes Pakistan take the higher moral pedestal.



Mirza Jatt said:


> I think the worse here for Pakistan is that hey have confirmed the date. They should have not confirmed the date. That would have been a good bargaining chip in case they really wanted a de escalation.



We dont bargain over misery of serving soldiers.

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## Trailer23

Alternatiiv said:


> According to the website, the serial is 78-0269, not 80269. And also, according to the database, it is in ACTIVE use of the Jordanian Air Force. The website has several abbreviations mentioned.
> 
> *[act]* Active
> *[i/a]* Instructional Airframe
> *[sto]* Stored (e.g. at AMARG)
> *[cld]* Cancelled Order
> *[msh]* Involved in Mishap
> *[w/o]* Write-off
> *[con]* Converted
> *[o/o]* On Order
> *[des]* Destroyed (drone)
> *[pre]* Preserved (museum, gateguard)
> *T/V* LM Aero Type/Version (Construction) number
> *[emb]* Embargoed
> *[scr]* Scrapped
> 
> 
> 
> Photo Available
> 
> It is listed clearly as [act] with JRAF since 2009.
> 
> Its pictures: http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/269/.
> 
> Lastly, that's a F-16B Block 20 MLU. Pakistan doesn't operate those.
> 
> Check this. Search for 78-0269, no result.
> https://www.scramble.nl/index.php?option=com_mildb&view=search


Brother..., you are wasting your breath on individuals who are clearly still in shock which is slowly leading to denial.

Let 'em beat their drums and talk about all the revenge they plan on taking. Currently, they are planning their next strikes which is going to the cinema and watching an anti-Pakistani flick.

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## Dubious

Areesh said:


> Should have released him once we are confirmed that bharatis have realized their auqat and won't escalate further


Oh we are still waiting for the aukat to set in 

Modi is still jumping and hissing like a rabid ape!

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## Bilal Khan 777

CHACHA"G" said:


> This is too early!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes "Abhi" have to go back...… we have to let him go,,, but this is dam to earlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


More timely than you realize. This will debunk their whole plan which was going to be announced. Brilliant.

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## El Sidd

Dubious said:


> Well we dont want to waste our biscuits and tea on him....
> 
> We have shown the world circus what we wanted to show them:
> 1) We arent the war mongers
> 2) We didnt start this
> 3) We know how to respect international treaties and rights - if we can protect a POW we def can protect our citizens
> 
> If he stays or goes...he has served his purpose! WE have recorded confession we are not blood thirsty even to the enemy!



#JaiSriRam

By the way this was very costly. Where can we make a claim for reparation for this very short war apparently ended by the great Khan by a merciful gesture.

Reminds of an old Hittite Kings story. Do not ask me how that ended

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## Patriots



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## Areesh

Dubious said:


> Oh we are still waiting for the aukat to set in
> 
> Modi is still jumping and hissing like a rabid ape!



Exactly. I doubt Ik is behaving stupid. Without any guarantee returning enemy pilot is dumb.

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## sur

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101035287914770434
> Its an F 16 alrite



*Perforations *on exhaust of MIG-21
Link2.

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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> I think the worse here for Pakistan is that hey have confirmed the date. They should have not confirmed the date. That would have been a good bargaining chip in case they really wanted a de escalation.


Well, the bargaining chip has already been issued from the time he was arrested!
2ndly, the date has been set to show india it doesnt have much time to whine coz we are climbing the morale ground as winners who have their cool and want regional peace...Cant say the same for Modi

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## Shabi1

For the Mein Nahi manthas
A F-16 engine and what that piece actually is.

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## CHACHA"G"

Dubious said:


> Hey if they dont de-escalate then the deal will be off the table...
> After all we are the peace lovers not them....so peace has to start from us


I know it is best for us and our regain ,,,,,,, And we have to let him go , today or tomorrow or after Months ,, he is kinds of a POW...……
Well , Our PM again show ,he will take 2 steps for peace and prosperity , Now it is on India...… And Indian...……

All the best for Mr-Abhi , affine solder … Soon he will be reunited with his family..... (Yeh I know he is our enemy , but my culture force me to appreciate )

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## Dubious

Retired Troll said:


> Where can we make a claim for reparation for this very short war apparently ended by the great Khan by a merciful gesture.


You see it is a historical feat! 

We are going down as peace loving ...them...meh...
We are going down as one who practice restrain for regional peace...them...meh..
We are going down as the one who INITIATED the peace talks -like in Afghanistan...In the long run we should have set a new image of Pakistan which will benefit our people and future generations...them...meh..

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## CriticalThought

Mirza Jatt said:


> why woud you even write something on a plane box below an aircraft with a sketch pen ??



Ask that question of IAF. They have a glorious record of poor maintenance.


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## El Sidd

Dubious said:


> You see it is a historical feat!
> 
> We are going down as peace loving ...them...meh...
> We are going down as one who practice restrain for regional peace...them...meh..
> We are going down as the one who INITIATED the peace talks -like in Afghanistan...In the long run we should have set a new image of Pakistan which will benefit our people and future generations...them...meh..



yeah that Hittite King died struck by a plague after he conquered Egypt and brought prisoners back.

i do not know how that fits in your story but it is what it is


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## Mirza Jatt

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> We dont bargain over misery of serving soldiers.



Good for you. Pressure clearly visible.



Dubious said:


> Well, the bargaining chip has already been issued from the time he was arrested!
> 2ndly, the date has been set to show india it doesnt have much time to whine coz we are climbing the morale ground as winners who have their cool and want regional peace...Cant say the same for Modi



No buddy. lol.. IK knows so very well that Pakistan cant afford a war. he knows India is not going back now and there is an escalation for sure. It is decision under pressure.


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## CHACHA"G"

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> More timely than you realize. This will debunk their whole plan which was going to be announced. Brilliant.


Agree Sir...………………. It is...…… Because of our culture (Mahman navazi) I was saying why not we keep him for few more days...….

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## Tps43

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> More timely than you realize. This will debunk their whole plan which was going to be announced. Brilliant.


Oh yes u r right


----------



## mohsen

Dubious said:


> Oh we are very tolerant...Look at the number of indian trolls and other members...Were we not tolerant, like on indian forums, such a number would not be getting any ranks
> 
> Tell me 1 indian forum that has given any ranks to Pakistani members
> 
> As for my tolerance...I have ZERO tolerance against BS and fake news! It is not just my tolerance...it is the tolerance of the world you live in...NO ONE likes a lying machine like indian news!


I personally believe there is a sweetness in every trolling, after all you have managed to attract their attention.

If your rival spends his time to keep repeating you are inferior, then that means your superiority has already reached a worrisome level for him, that makes him wanting to repeat his claim.

P.S
Their trolling is equal to Pakistani trolling, when I was checking this thread yesterday, Pakistanis weren't showing much a better attitude, even though strangely there was no Indian to reply them (now I know they were in another thread!). bragging about shooting down an unarmed helicopter (when even Pakistan hasn't taken the responsibility) has clear responses.

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## El Sidd

Dubious said:


> You see it is a historical feat!
> 
> We are going down as peace loving ...them...meh...
> We are going down as one who practice restrain for regional peace...them...meh..
> We are going down as the one who INITIATED the peace talks -like in Afghanistan...In the long run we should have set a new image of Pakistan which will benefit our people and future generations...them...meh..



by the way i just thought of a perfect twitter trend for it

#ThankYouAbhi

5th Gen warfare multiplied by infinity level googly

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## Mirza Jatt

CriticalThought said:


> Ask that question of IAF. They have a glorious record of poor maintenance.



We dont do that. Those are Pakistani soldiers in the pic beside the plane. what are they doing beside a plane that was supposed to be in Indian side according to them ?? lol


----------



## Sine Nomine

Mirza Jatt said:


> No buddy. lol.. IK knows so very well that Pakistan cant afford a war. he knows India is not going back now and there is an escalation for sure. It is decision under pressure.


Jo ukarana hai ukhaar lou.


----------



## Dubious

mohsen said:


> bragging about shooting down an unarmed helicopter


We arent bragging about that...india claimed that was technical difficulties 

We talking about fighter jets...Please go through the thread at least!

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## Areesh

Mirza Jatt said:


> No buddy. lol.. IK knows so very well that Pakistan cant afford a war. he knows India is not going back now and there is an escalation for sure. It is decision under pressure.



So IK didn't know that when he ordered PAF to bomb Indian territory or send 20 jets or shot down IAF aircraft

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## Mirza Jatt

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Jo ukarana hai ukhaar lou.



ukhar liya. Pakistan gives in under Indian pressure and Pakisytan is releasing Indan pilot in just 1 day of capturing.


----------



## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> I think the worse here for Pakistan is that hey have confirmed the date. They should have not confirmed the date. That would have been a good bargaining chip in case they really wanted a de escalation.


The confirmed date is due date to de-escalate the war mongering...Meaning we have the upper hand to say "DOWN BOY!"


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## Areesh

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Jo ukarana hai ukhaar lou.



Baighairat log hain. Jootai khatai hain. Zaleel hotai hain. Aur phir aa kar barhi barhi baatain kartai hain

Kal itna zaleel hoye hai aur baatain dekho is khusra jatt ki

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## Enigma SIG

Mirza Jatt said:


> ukhar liya. Pakistan gives in under Indian pressure and Pakisytan is releasing Indan pilot in just 1 day of capturing.


Take your pilot. Re-audit your flying inventory and chuck that Su30 off the list.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Mirza Jatt said:


> sober words dont suit you. I will have to take you seriously otherwise. Yo need to swear and abuse Indians in reply...thats how you have created your image. arent you the one who was abusing me in other thread... buddy I have my own rules.. I can be funny and sarcastic but i will never abuse you or your family thats how I was brought up..even if its a war going on. not interested in engaging with you..yeah am scared.



LOL Good. Remain scared.


----------



## Sine Nomine

Mirza Jatt said:


> ukhar liya. Pakistan gives in under Indian pressure and Pakisytan is releasing Indan pilot in just 1 day of capturing.


We have to release him in 7 days,do you want us to hang him?

@Areesh level check kar


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## Mirza Jatt

Areesh said:


> So IK didn't know that when he ordered PAF to bomb Indian territory or send 20 jets or shot down IAF aircraft
> 
> As I said. You are an idiot.



he did it to save his chair and nose. Anyone would do that. but releasing the pilot in a day proves the pressure when he had made no prior commitment to do so. As i didnt say but we know .. you are an idiot of level i cant reach.


----------



## Dreamer.

Releasing Indian Pilot so quickly is a mistake.... which we will only realize too late. As always.

There was a lot to gain yet from this bargaining chip. We could for example have demanded India admit they didn't hit any training camp and didn't kill 300 people etc. Only one example... a lot more could have been gained aswell.

Finally he could have been exchanged for any future case where india might kidnap someone (like the colonel from nepal). Why don't we exchange with the said colonel btw? After a suitable time, that is.

But Alas..................... we always lose on the strategic and tactical front.


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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> ukhar liya. Pakistan gives in under Indian pressure and Pakisytan is releasing Indan pilot in just 1 day of capturing.


Its not giving in....

For years India refused to talk...now the condition for returning the pilot is to de-escalate the whole thing and india doesnt have a choice....
if you do- you can be seen as bowed down to us
if you dont- international stage would see you dont like peace 

So ...Checkmate!

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## Mirza Jatt

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> We have to release him in 7 days,do you want us to hang him?
> 
> @Areesh level check kar



you cant. You were supposed to hang jadhav in a week of arrest...lol grow up.


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## CriticalThought

Mirza Jatt said:


> We dont do that. Those are Pakistani soldiers in the pic beside the plane. what are they doing beside a plane that was supposed to be in Indian side according to them ?? lol



They are the guys we appointed to collect your MIG-21 that you send here along with your worst flyers. I understand you are too ashamed everyone sees your used condom, but our guys can't let it fester in open spaces.


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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> he did it to save his chair and nose. Anyone would do that. but releasing the pilot in a day proves the pressure when he had made no prior commitment to do so. As i didnt say but we know .. you are an idiot of level i cant reach.


No one makes prior commitment when arresting POW ...

we have gotten what we wanted...Clearing our name as the troublemaker and shining that light onto India...India played very well but we still won so CHECKMATE!

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## maximuswarrior

Areesh said:


> Baighairat log hain. Jootai khatai hain. Zaleel hotai hain. Aur phir aa kar barhi barhi baatain kartai hain
> 
> Kal itna zaleel hoye hai aur baatain dekho is khusra jatt ki



That's a Modi toadie for you. Scolded and humiliated on the international stage. We took their fighters down and captured their pilots. Any person with a single iota of shame in their body would accept defeat with humbleness. Today Modi government begs in front of the whole world for return of their captured pilot. What a shame.

Only a Modi loving Indian can behave in such a shameful way. These Modi monkeys are absolute scum of the earth. So filthy and nasty that words cannot describe.

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## Sine Nomine

Mirza Jatt said:


> you cant. You were supposed to hang jadhav in a week of arrest...lol grow up.


We can kid,the way we rammed your rear yesterday morning by bombing Div Hq and luring two of your planes into an ambush.
Jadhav has served us alive more then being hanged.


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## atya

Dreamer. said:


> Releasing Indian Pilot so quickly is a mistake.... which we will only realize too late. As always.
> 
> There was a lot to gain yet from this bargaining chip. We could for example have demanded India admit they didn't hit any training camp and didn't kill 300 people etc. Only one example... a lot more could have been gained aswell.
> 
> Finally he could have been exchanged for any future case where india might kidnap someone (like the colonel from nepal). Why don't we exchange with the said colonel btw? After a suitable time, that is.
> 
> But Alas..................... we always lose on the strategic and tactical front.



Nope, he just bowled a bouncer at Modi. We don't want war, we want peace and prosperity. Ball is in India's court now...the world will know the aggressor.

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## AsianLion

*Why did #IAF the next day enter pakistan when they had supposedly killed 300 terrorist????*

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## Dubious

O and as a bonus we got the higher moral ground now since 
We still preached peace even during war time
We treated POW with utmost respect 
We returned him in exchange for peace!

Nothing is better than peace!


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## El Sidd

atya said:


> Nope, he just bowled a bouncer at Modi. We don't want war, we want peace and prosperity. Ball is in India's court now...the world will know the aggressor.



taaliyaan

state politics is now reduced to words like googly, bouncer and full toss.

and tea and biscuit

i got unbanned in British India again apparently

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## maximuswarrior

AsianUnion said:


> *Why did #IAF the next day enter pakistan when they had supposedly killed 300 terrorist????*



They hadn't and their claims were bogus. Like we showed to the world they emptied their payload in empty forest fields.

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## Dubious

AsianUnion said:


> *Why did #IAF the next day enter pakistan when they had supposedly killed 300 terrorist????*


lolz...Ask them or their believers!

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## Mirza Jatt

Dubious said:


> Its not giving in....
> 
> For years India refused to talk...now the condition for returning the pilot is to de-escalate the whole thing and india doesnt have a choice....
> if you do- you can be seen as bowed down to us
> if you dont- international stage would see you dont like peace
> 
> So ...Checkmate!



look at like this..

Let me then tell you what has changed.. India has shown its hard side to the world with no sign of going soft. India does not care about Pakistan anymore..its alla bout terror factory... the world has condemned Pakistan already and even after India attacked balakot...so the non military targets for India are still open and has the support of the other countries.


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## El Sidd

Dubious said:


> Nothing is better than peace!



Wagyu A5 reverse seared and Chocolat Souffle 

I win

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## Bilal Khan 777

Tps43 said:


> Oh yes u r right



Armed forces briefing in India postponed to 1900.

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## Mirza Jatt

Dubious said:


> No one makes prior commitment when arresting POW ...
> 
> we have gotten what we wanted...Clearing our name as the troublemaker and shining that light onto India...India played very well but we still won so CHECKMATE!



thats called self praising. The entire episode has atleast helped India establish itself the victim of terror and even after balakot attack it was India who was supported..heck even CHina asked Pakistan to stop terror factories. So the route of atttacking terrorists is no easier than ever for us.


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## Bilal Khan 777

Mirza Jatt said:


> thats called self praising. The entire episode has atleast helped India establish itself the victim of terror and even after balakot attack it was India who was supported..heck even CHina asked Pakistan to stop terror factories. So the route of atttacking terrorists is no easier than ever for us.



You are good. Formally trained? In uniform? Keep up the good work.

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## Mirza Jatt

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> We can kid,the way we rammed your rear yesterday morning by bombing Div Hq and luring two of your planes into an ambush.
> Jadhav has served us alive more then being hanged.



if two were lured into ambush when will you show the other plane and the pilot ?? especially since we know that ISPR has both of them with them ? lol

and no kid..you cant. you couldnt do a thing to jadhav after claims which weretaller than mountains..so you have no credibility when you say you can hand abhinandan..haha ask you PM if you can hang him after he said he is releasing him tomorrow.. come out of the dream kid.


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## maximuswarrior

Mirza Jatt said:


> look at like this..
> 
> Let me then tell you what has changed.. India has shown its hard side to the world with no sign of going soft. India does not care about Pakistan anymore..its alla bout terror factory... the world has condemned Pakistan already and even after India attacked balakot...so the non military targets for India are still open and has the support of the other countries.



The world didn't condemn Pakistan. France and John Bolton were on your side.

The rest simply paid condolences to the loss of soldiers. That's lip service.

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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> The entire episode has atleast helped India establish itself the victim of terror


How so? 

Victim of terrifying imagination probably! 

300 terrorists down but still did a blunder of re-entering our air space? Lets say 300 were killed...that is greed if they re-entered...

But how is it possible that no proof of these said 300 exists? Not even the strong satellite picked up anything?!

2ndly, if 300 were not killed and India came back to do it since they took time in detecting the still hanging road sign pointing to a madrassah....then that isnt proof of anything, now is it?

We however have proof that India transgressed international LOC...has no shame and respect for international convention! Not sure how it helped India but if that is what India was working for...sure


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## atya

What happened to the Indian joint statement...has IK made them change their written speech

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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> heck even CHina asked Pakistan to stop terror factories.


Where did China say or use those words? Last we heard they were enjoying the treat of seeing 2 IAF aircrafts gunned down!

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## Mirza Jatt

Dubious said:


> How so?
> 
> Victim of terrifying imagination probably!
> 
> 300 terrorists down but still did a blunder of re-entering our air space? Lets say 300 were killed...that is greed if they re-entered...
> 
> But how is it possible that no proof of these said 300 exists? Not even the strong satellite picked up anything?!
> 
> 2ndly, if 300 were not killed and India came back to do it since they took time in detecting the still hanging road sign pointing to a madrassah....then that isnt proof of anything, now is it?
> 
> We however have proof that India transgressed international LOC...has no shame and respect for international convention! Not sure how it helped India but if that is what India was working for...sure



Greed? India attacked terrorist and Pakistan jets attacked military establishement.. thats how the narrative is... Indian jetscrossed loc later t hat was only to chase away PAF jets since they violated our airspace.

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## Dubious

O since we are returning that Abhi dude...india cant even try to play the rescue card/ our pilot is being tortured or whatever BS card they planned to play

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## NA71

Indian statement delayed for 2 hrs as PM imran Khan announced the release of Indian Pilot.

We are releasing him for peace of the region ...no issue zarrorat pari tu aur pakar lein gay ...buhat hein IAF mein

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## maximuswarrior

Mirza Jatt said:


> Greed? India attacked terrorist and Pakistan jets attacked military establishement.. thats how the narrative is... Indian jetscrossed loc later t hat was only to chase away PAF jets since they violated our airspace.



We attacked Indian military installations that were being used to violate our airspace.

You only attacked some trees in an empty forest. Where are the 200-300 bodies? Prove it. Pakistan can never hide such mass casualties.

Not a single reputable intentional media source has acknowledged Indian claims. In fact international experts have ridiculed your exaggerated claims. No one is paying heed to Modiland. If anything your own allies are telling you to calm down.

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## El Sidd

nahmed71 said:


> Indian statement delayed for 2 hrs as PM imran Khan announced the release of Indian Pilot.
> 
> We are releasing him for peace of the region ...no issue zarrorat pari tu aur pakar lein gay ...buhat hein IAF mein



maybe the delay is for serving tea


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## Sine Nomine

Mirza Jatt said:


> if two were lured into ambush when will you show the other plane and the pilot ?? especially since we know that ISPR has both of them with them ? lol


Wait and watch,we may have surprise for you.


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## macnurv

Mirza Jatt said:


> thats called self praising. The entire episode has atleast helped India establish itself the victim of terror and even after balakot attack it was India who was supported..heck even CHina asked Pakistan to stop terror factories. So the route of atttacking terrorists is no easier than ever for us.


Yes this only happened in upside down where you and country reside.


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## NA71

maximuswarrior said:


> We attacked Indian military installations that were being used to violate our airspace.
> 
> You only attacked some tress in an empty forest. Where are the 200-300 bodies? Prove it.


 This is an endless cycle of arguments & counter-arguments. 

The thread has been stretched to 361 pages till this post. Mod should apply breaks here.

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## maximuswarrior

Mirza Jatt said:


> if two were lured into ambush when will you show the other plane and the pilot ?? especially since we know that ISPR has both of them with them ? lol
> 
> and no kid..you cant. you couldnt do a thing to jadhav after claims which weretaller than mountains..so you have no credibility when you say you can hand abhinandan..haha ask you PM if you can hang him after he said he is releasing him tomorrow.. come out of the dream kid.



Isn't one pilot enough humiliation for you? We will do as we wish. If we want to produce them we will. If we don't we won't. It all depends on our interests and strategy.

No one gives a crap about what you think or believe. You are just like oxygen that evaporates in thin air. Screaming and shouting won't achieve anything buddy.


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## The Accountant

Dreamer. said:


> Releasing Indian Pilot so quickly is a mistake.... which we will only realize too late. As always.
> 
> There was a lot to gain yet from this bargaining chip. We could for example have demanded India admit they didn't hit any training camp and didn't kill 300 people etc. Only one example... a lot more could have been gained aswell.
> 
> Finally he could have been exchanged for any future case where india might kidnap someone (like the colonel from nepal). Why don't we exchange with the said colonel btw? After a suitable time, that is.
> 
> But Alas..................... we always lose on the strategic and tactical front.



No its not ... Isy khty hain pyar sy lena ... Pakistan is not giving any opportunity to India to start a war ...

we showed them the mirror ... We took down 2 planes ... Pay them heavy casualty in Sialkot ... So message is already given


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## maximuswarrior

nahmed71 said:


> This is an endless cycle of arguments & counter-arguments.
> 
> The thread has been stretched to 361 pages till this post. Mod should apply breaks here.



Tell that to Indians that keep making false claims.

It is impossible for Pakistan to conceal such mass casualties. No one can hide 200-300 bodies in this day and age. The Indians keep claiming that they struck a camp where 200-300 people were staying. The onus is on the Indians to prove this to us and the rest.


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## The Accountant

Mirza Jatt said:


> you cant. You were supposed to hang jadhav in a week of arrest...lol grow up.


Ok sir , you won ... whatever makes you feel good ... We all knows the reality ...


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## maximuswarrior

Mirza Jatt said:


> you cant. You were supposed to hang jadhav in a week of arrest...lol grow up.



LOL Who the fvck told you that we were going to hang your little terrorist in a week after arrest?

Stop fabricating BS. He is a fvcking asset to us. We will keep him alive and parade him whenever we feel like. *Jadhav will remind you of your rightful place.*


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## AsianLion

See this fellows Indian version: first time 24 Pak A/C :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101081401749778432


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## Sabretooth

As I have said before, patience is not the strong suit of my countrymen. Jumping to conclusions is like our bread & butter.

Only a couple of days ago, many people here on PDF were bashing armed forces for letting the Mirages escape and Govt for not retaliating immediately. And then the whole world witnessed the competence & resolve of these institutions.

For once, please trust your institutions and have some faith in your PM that he will make the right decision for the better future of this nation. If the Govt thought of letting the Indian pilot go, It would definitely serve some greater purpose. They haven't let us down yet and I hope they won't do it now.

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## El Sidd

The Accountant said:


> Ok sir , you won ... whatever makes you feel good ... We all knows the reality ...



now be a pretty boy and say Jai Sri Ram


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## NA71

*Imran Khan says in National Assembly Joint session that we had intl. that on Feb 27th night india was preparing to launch Missiles on Pak. and that what we had prepared for them in counter attack. Stop it here.*


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## Trailer23

nahmed71 said:


> This is an endless cycle of arguments & counter-arguments.
> 
> The thread has been stretched to 361 pages till this post. Mod should apply breaks here.


And start a new one from scratch....


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## NA71

Retired Troll said:


> now be a pretty boy and say Jai Sri Ram



pure filth.



Trailer23 said:


> And start a new one from scratch....


sorry buddy coz it was a breaking news


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## ARMalik

IK and everyone is Pakistan needs to understand the *Reality of who Indians really are* because if you don't understand this reality then *you won't be able to make the correct decisions.* And this Reality is that Indians historically and in present have been shameless, gutless and people without any dignity and code of honor. Whenever you *display peace, honor, compassion and act in a dignified way*, these indians have and will *take advantage* of you and *will strike* when you least expect it. One really needs to understand the DNA of what really makes an Indian. You don't have to go far to evaluate on what I am saying - Just have a look at the indian posters here as an example of what they are writing and how they are behaving.

I am afraid this *good gesture by IK *will be twisted and turned by the indians and nothing will come out of it. *Lets give peace a chance, there should be no doubt about it.* But again, the only language that *has and will* work with the indians is the *language of FORCE and RUTHLESSNESS*.

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## El Sidd

nahmed71 said:


> pure filth.



why not? It will be good for peace.
do it 
do it now


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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101057432334290949

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## Areesh

Mirza Jatt said:


> he did it to save his chair and nose. Anyone would do that. but releasing the pilot in a day proves the pressure when he had made no prior commitment to do so. As i didnt say but we know .. you are an idiot of level i cant reach.



His chair andnose both are. Pakistan has successfully managed your war mongering and is cearly on top. 

You are an idiot. Admit it. It is hard. But admit it.


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## maximuswarrior

AsianUnion said:


> See this fellows Indian version: first time 24 Pak A/C :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101081401749778432



LOL Looks like a tale from Narnia.

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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101091037374832640


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## Indus Pakistan

Today Modi woke up and all morning he was on the phone. Begging USA, UK, EU, Russia, China etc

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## maximuswarrior

ARMalik said:


> IK and everyone is Pakistan needs to understand the *Reality of who Indians really are* because if you don't understand this reality then *you won't be able to make the correct decisions.* And this Reality is that Indians historically and in present have been shameless, gutless and people without any dignity and code of honor. Whenever you *display peace, honor, compassion and act in a dignified*, these indians have and will *take advantage* of you and *will strike* when you least expect it. One really needs to understand the DNA of what really makes an Indian. You don't have to go far to evaluate on what I am saying - Just have a look at the indian posters here as an example of what they are writing and how they are behaving.
> 
> I am afraid this *good gesture by IK *will be twisted and turned by the indians and nothing will come out of it. *Lets give peace a chance, there should be no doubt about it.* But again, the only language that *has and will *also work with the indians is the *language of FORCE and RUTHLESSNESS*.



Modi wasn't elected for peace. Modi was elected for warmongering by RSS nationalistic Hindus. Look at Modi's India as an example. Women get mass raped, minorities don't have any rights and Muslims are killed by cow vigilantes. Rapists, killers and extremists have a free pass in Modi's India. Modi has earned India the title for being the worst and unsafe place as a woman. The whole world witnesses these horrendous acts on a daily basis.

We cannot expect Modi extremists to have good relations with its neighbors. Those that live in caste systems and don't treat their own well cannot be expected to treat others normally.

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## Indus Pakistan

Captured Indian pilot on returning to India was asked "what did your experiance of being captured by Pakistan teach you?"

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## scorpionx

Awesomely good gesture by Mr.Khan. Thank you so so much.

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## mohsen

sur said:


> *Perforations *on exhaust of MIG-21
> Link2.
> View attachment 542901


Don't need to look at the hole! It's clearly a Tumanski R-25 engine of MIG21:

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## The Accountant

I am proud to vote for Imran Khan ... What a sensible gentleman ...

However, Indians are cowards rats they will attack from back ...

Be ready guys

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## Indus Pakistan

*Pakistan 'to free Indian pilot on Friday'*

25 minutes ago







Share 
Related Topics

India-Pakistan air strikes
Image copyright Pakistan Information Ministry (ISPR)
Image caption Pakistan says Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman is being treated well
Pakistan will release a captured Indian pilot as a "peace gesture" on Friday, Prime Minister Imran Khan has said.

Mr Khan revealed the decision in parliament after a speech in which he said Pakistan was focused on de-escalation.

Pakistan shot down the pilot's jet on Wednesday, as tensions rose with India over the disputed region of Kashmir.

The capture of Abhinandan Varthaman was a *major setback for India*. Both sides are under pressure to calm tensions.


Villagers recount dramatic capture of pilot
India and Pakistan in uncharted waters
India struck targets in Pakistan on Tuesday after a militant attack on its security forces earlier this month that it blamed on its neighbour.

Pakistan said it had no choice but to retaliate with air strikes on Wednesday, which led to a dogfight and the Indian fighter jet being shot down in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

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## Muhammad Omar

Indian Media is shoeims some AIM-120 C missile claiming that it's a paet of Pakistan's F-16 which was shot down


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## Indus Pakistan

For those who read international media as I do this report is about as pro Pakistan as you can get from BBC. And paints Pakistan in positive light.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47399126

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## RPK

Indus Pakistan said:


> a *major setback for India*


there is no setback it happend many times before on both sides


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## ptldM3

AsianUnion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101057432334290949





Stop spreading misinformation.


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## Dubious

Mirza Jatt said:


> look at like this..
> 
> Let me then tell you what has changed.. India has shown its hard side to the world with no sign of going soft. India does not care about Pakistan anymore..its alla bout terror factory... the world has condemned Pakistan already and even after India attacked balakot...so the non military targets for India are still open and has the support of the other countries.


Agreed...by hard side you mean the aggressor ..we can see parallels in Kashmir hence proving our point that the plight of the Kashmiris need to be viewed in this light!

What support? We showed that Modi is war mongering even indian media is war mongering ...While Pakistan has only preached peace since last year....

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dubious said:


> Oh its an olive branch ...we need good TRP rating at international level...we are already enjoying the "india transgressed LOC" treat....
> 
> Say we return pilot and india still behaves like a baboon...well then we have every right to say we tried now die


Now sputnik is posting indian propoganda.

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## The Accountant

ptldM3 said:


> Stop spreading misinformation.


how you can call it miss information ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ptldM3 said:


> Stop spreading misinformation.



Is this an F-16 or a “mig-21 Bison” which allergy fleeced the american F-18s and raptors lol

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## maximuswarrior

scorpionx said:


> Awesomely good gesture by Mr.Khan. Thank you so so much.



How will you reciprocate? By violating our airspace and killing innocent people?


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## Indus Pakistan

RPK said:


> there is no setback it happend many times before on both sides


I entirely agree. From military POV losing few fighters means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Planes are even lost in peacetime. However you overlook the context.

What was the last few days about? What was Modi's trying to do? Even if you go by the claim that JEM camp was the target the question arises what was the goal? Taking one camp out was not going to cripple or even dissuade JEM. To believe that is absurd. Majority of the JEM infra is in Bahawalpur, Punjab. It would need sustained sorties to take out JEM. Not one 'Show Shaw' attack.

The reality was this was not intended to start a war. Not intended with any military goal. However it was a PR excercise or 'Show Shaw' to show that Modi was tough guy. In that sense this has turned into a unmitigated disaster for India. From showing flexed muscles and look strong in front of the world you have a castrated India in form of pictures of a captured pilot and crashed IAF jets. In that sense this is a optics disaster.

This is exactly why I don't want this PRT stunt to go any further. Pakistan has come out the winner. Read the international media. Instead of reports on chastised Pakistan all it shows is captured Indian pilots making India look humbled.

With Pakistan in charge and smiling .......

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## ptldM3

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Is this an F-16 or a “mig-21 Bison” which allergy fleeced the american F-18s and raptors lol
> 
> View attachment 542929
> View attachment 542930
> View attachment 542931
> View attachment 542932
> View attachment 542933
> View attachment 542934
> View attachment 542935




I can tell you what it's not and that is the SU-30 in which Pakistanis are delusinally gloating about downing.


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## maximuswarrior

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Is this an F-16 or a “mig-21 Bison” which allergy fleeced the american F-18s and raptors lol
> 
> View attachment 542929
> View attachment 542930
> View attachment 542931
> View attachment 542932
> View attachment 542933
> View attachment 542934
> View attachment 542935



That is called solid proof.


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## ptldM3

The Accountant said:


> how you can call it miss information ?




Because no SU-30 was shot down, that's how.


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## Great Janjua

ptldM3 said:


> Stop spreading misinformation.


Any proof to claim otherwise


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## blackuday




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## Indus Pakistan

ptldM3 said:


> I can tell you what it's not and that is the SU-30 in which Pakistanis are delusinally gloating about downing.


Captured Indian pilots, loads of pictures, dead Indian aircrew is not 'delusional' but facts. It is the Indians who only present hot air as facts ....

And care to explain further what you mean?

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## The Accountant

ptldM3 said:


> I can tell you what it's not and that is the SU-30 in which Pakistanis are delusinally gloating about downing.


THe claimed Su30 falled at Indian side so we dont have pics for the same...


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## maximuswarrior

blackuday said:


>



LOL Imran buckles. These Hindu bastards don't have an iota of shame. Even a goodwill gesture is turned into something else. These bastards will never ever understand.

The world has witnessed how we humiliated India.

- We downed their fighters and captured their pilots
- On top of that we destroyed Indian command infrastructure

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## ptldM3

Indus Pakistan said:


> Captured Indian pilots, loads of pictures, dead Indian aircrew is not 'delusional' but facts. It is the Indians who only present hot air as facts ....
> 
> And care to explain further what you mean?





I mean no SU-30 was shot down.


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## Indus Pakistan

blackuday said:


>


For a country that croaks being a gizzilion dlla economy can they not afford a decent camera? Even my iphone takes a better picture. But then grainy fuzzy pictures are harder to establish ...

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## maximuswarrior

Indus Pakistan said:


> For a country that croaks being a gizzilion dlla economy can they not afford a decent camera? Even my iphone takes a better picture. But then grainy fuzzy pictures are harder to establish ...



What a shitty picture quality to display. Absolutely coward nation.

We did good. We shamed them in front of the whole world and it feels good.

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## Nefarious

Sukhoi is the new Mig, usually the first casualty. Keeping up with tradition.


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## Indus Pakistan

ptldM3 said:


> I mean no SU-30 was shot down.


Maybe. Maybe not. No point in beating this to death. But we know these as incontrovertible facts -


One Indian jet downed/pilot captured
one Indian air asset/possibly chopper down/aircrew dead
This still places Pakistan in a more comfortable position then Indians. And I think you will find they are smoking delusions by making wild claims ....

My point is we don't need the Su-30 kill to come out better then India. So we can easily accede this [Su-30] kill but still be on top.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Is this an F-16 or a “mig-21 Bison” which allergy fleeced the american F-18s and raptors lol
> 
> View attachment 542929
> View attachment 542930
> View attachment 542931
> View attachment 542932
> View attachment 542933
> View attachment 542934
> View attachment 542935


Love it. They say picture is worth a thoudsand words. Boy did we not get enough to make a album. And picture quality is ace.


lol ........

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## blackuday




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## Indus Pakistan

Faw days ago all I heard was "India will teach terroristan a lesson". Hahahahahahaha .... that lesson now lies in those pictures !


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## blackuday

Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor said that the Pakistan Air Force did not use F-16 fighter jets in Wednesday's engagement and reports of India shooting down a PAF F-16 are incorrect.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902...&utm_content=kPN8&utm_campaign=URL_shortening






http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3193


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## maximuswarrior

Indus Pakistan said:


> Maybe. Maybe not. No point in beating this to death. But we know these as incontrovertible facts -
> 
> 
> One Indian jet downed/pilot captured
> one Indian air asset/possibly chopper down/aircrew dead
> This still places Pakistan in a more comfortable position then Indians. And I think you will find they are smoking delusions by making wild claims ....
> 
> My point is we don't need the Su-30 kill to come out better then India. So we can easily accede this [Su-30] kill but still be on top.
> 
> Love it. They say picture is worth a thoudsand words. Boy did we not get enough to make a album. And picture quality is ace.
> 
> 
> lol ........



LOL

You forgot the incredible pounding they got when our fighters entered their airspace and destroyed their military infrastructure.

Indians are too coward to share the damage. They keep asking about the 2nd and 3rd pilot, but keep forgetting how we came in and spanked their terror command and control centers.

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## untitled

blackuday said:


>


That looks more like a drop tank than radome to me


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## maximuswarrior

blackuday said:


>



Some more fantastically crystal clear pictures. Just click on them and increase the size. Even my 15 year old mobile would produce clearer pictures.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ptldM3 said:


> I can tell you what it's not and that is the SU-30 in which Pakistanis are delusinally gloating about downing.


There has been no official confirmation by PAF as to which type of jets were shot.
However that said the one that crashed in Pakistan was a mig-21 bison from 51st sqd of indian airforce.
Wing commander abhi nandan is a senior pilot and was once a SU-30 pilot.

As for SU-30 its not invincible it can be shot down, the same way we have shot down mr nandan and the other pilot who probably died in the crash in IOK.



blackuday said:


>


Better camera;






Video report


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

Matches the terrain and color of your jet doesnt it!

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## Indus Pakistan

Yeh the picture quality you provided tells me it's piece of premium cut missing Kardeshian's a*ss.

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## blackuday

ok Pak but this.....



blackuday said:


> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor said that the Pakistan Air Force did not use F-16 fighter jets in Wednesday's engagement and reports of India shooting down a PAF F-16 are incorrect.
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902...&utm_content=kPN8&utm_campaign=URL_shortening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3193


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

blackuday said:


> ok Pak but this.....




        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Indus Pakistan

blackuday said:


> ok Pak but this.....


What does that prove? A missile part??????

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## DESERT FIGHTER

maximuswarrior said:


> Some more fantastically crystal clear pictures. Just click on them and increase the size. Even my 15 year old mobile would produce clearer pictures.


The clear video of Pak Army loading the remains of the indian jet on trucks was aired.
One can probably find the full report on YT easily lol.

Here is instagram share


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


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## Indus Pakistan

We know there was combat in the air. That is why we have a Indian pilot captured. He was shot. There is bound to be spent missile/ordinance?

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## CHACHA"G"

Indus Pakistan said:


> For a country that croaks being a gizzilion dlla economy can they not afford a decent camera? Even my iphone takes a better picture. But then grainy fuzzy pictures are harder to establish ...


Because that piece is from Israli source...……….. lol

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## YeBeWarned

Indian media and members here some of the most shameless creatures I have ever encountered in life .. apart from few sensible posters from India , all others are as Oscar say are low life internet trolls . 

I hope family of Abhinandan is now having a relief that their son/husband/ father is coming home .

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Indus Pakistan said:


> What does that prove? A missile part??????


An American AIM-120C-5 missile.

Why arent they showing the indian wreckage of the other mig which caught the Pakistani missile?

Older one was hit over Pakistan, and its tail bears the hit marks;

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## HRK

Dubious said:


> And why isnt it aired on mainstream media?


because its another shit propaganda by them .... what these Internet sanghis don't know PAF bought ADF version not blk-20 air frame from Jordan ......

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## Indus Pakistan

What's this? Picture of four Indian jets crashing after being shot down by PAF. Sorry for the image. I used a 1830 Kodak instamatic

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## blackuday

What this !



blackuday said:


> Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor said that the Pakistan Air Force did not use F-16 fighter jets in Wednesday's engagement and reports of India shooting down a PAF F-16 are incorrect.
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/asia/201902...&utm_content=kPN8&utm_campaign=URL_shortening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3193


----------



## Indus Pakistan

blackuday said:


> ok Pak but this.....


The image you posted has no context. It could have been taken anywhere. Even in your backyard. Google reverse search shows it as 'Rust'.

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=s...0II8n8bj2395wAf6_1aMtDVcM8j1O-AqHtVQ&hl=en-GB

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## Gorgin Khan

blackuday said:


> ok Pak but this.....



You dont need to have a super IQ to understand this . If F-16 is downed where is it ? Secondly even if we are lying, US has all the track record and serial nos. At the end we will get to know. 

And why are you asking here ? why dont you ask the indian government about their claim. Let them provide evidence ? Why should we always provide it. We have already provided sufficient evidence of what we claimed ..

As usual randhi rhona , and they are using the picture of AMRAAM to somehow involve US and Try to milk them by pressurizing or sanctioning us at the end. Even a child here understand the indian policy. We dont need rocket science.

Ask Modi about his taaaaaaallll claims.

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## untitled

Indus Pakistan said:


> The image you posted has no context.


LOL. It's taken from some boneyard?

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## Indus Pakistan

blackuday said:


> What this !


You tell me what's this?

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## blackuday

No one can answer

I must come to the conclusion that F16 was shot down by JF-17

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## Indus Pakistan

There sure are some retarded people in this world ..



blackuday said:


> No one can answer
> 
> I must come to the conclusion that F16 was shot down by JF-17

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## Gorgin Khan

blackuday said:


> No one can answer
> 
> I must come to the conclusion that F16 was shot down by JF-17



We second you , Good luck

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## Enigma_

I am pretty sure the JF-17 shot itself down

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## Cuirassier

blackuday said:


> No one can answer
> 
> I must come to the conclusion that F16 was shot down by JF-17


[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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## sreekimpact

https://quwa.org/2016/07/04/jordan-put-15-f-16ab-mlu-sale-pakistan/

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## Bilal Khan 777

AsianUnion said:


> See this fellows Indian version: first time 24 Pak A/C :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101081401749778432



They took their time to make up the story...Bravo.

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## VCheng

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Its a reminder of their defeat and very insulting. Makes Pakistan take the higher moral pedestal.
> 
> 
> 
> We dont bargain over misery of serving soldiers.



Neither side can afford to escalate the situation, pure and simple. Morality has no role to play in international geopolitics.

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## blackuday

JF-17 shot down MiG-21
MiG-21 shot down F-16

India vs Pak = 1 : 1


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## Bilal Khan 777

HRK said:


> to f.u.c.k with moral pedestal ..... we are dealing with them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this difficult hours the only thing I am interested are
> - National Interest
> - Sovereignty
> - Dignity
> 
> F.U.C.K MORALITY .... F.U.C.K IT ..... Be prepared to be HUMILIATED and attack by India again .... *we are assisting Modi to raise the morale of indian troops *
> 
> Our BASTARDS have shown the sign of weakness ..... it POLITICAL SURRENDER after all the current fuss
> 
> (Advance apology from mod team for the use of inappropriate language ..... but I find no dignified way convey my understanding of this move)



Calm down.



blackuday said:


> JF-17 shot down MiG-21
> MiG-21 shot down F-16
> 
> India vs Pak = 1 : 1



Where is your F-16?

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## Windjammer

blackuday said:


>


You are trying very hard without having any knowledge on the subject, here let me put you out of your misery, that piece those soldiers are loading on a truck is nothing more than the extra fuel tank from the downed Indian MiG-21 jet.


----------



## blackuday

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Calm down.
> 
> 
> 
> Where is your F-16?


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Indus Pakistan said:


> The image you posted has no context. It could have been taken anywhere. Even in your backyard. Google reverse search shows it as 'Rust'.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?tbs=s...0II8n8bj2395wAf6_1aMtDVcM8j1O-AqHtVQ&hl=en-GB


For one minute if we say that image is authentic ,,,,,,, *Then , This mean IAF lost SU-30 because that missile did hit one bird , and that bird fell down in IOK...…….. * lol Indian will fell into their own propaganda . LMAO



blackuday said:


> JF-17 shot down MiG-21
> MiG-21 shot down F-16
> 
> India vs Pak = 1 : 1


F-16 shoot down U-30 ….. That missile did hit a jet...……… That jet fell in IOK...….. Why you not saying this ..

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## AsianLion

Zaid Hamid is not happy with SMQ and IK:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101102859809157122

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## Dr. Abdul Basit

Don't feed the trolls


----------



## SABRE

blackuday said:


> No one can answer
> 
> I must come to the conclusion that F16 was shot down by JF-17



Nops. You shot an F-16 in your imagination. Nothing that you can say would divert the single fact that IAF has been terrible during this engagement.

- If F-16 was downed & the pilot died we would be honoring his martyrdom. The word 'shaheed' to us has a different meaning to us than you. You would see his funeral live on Pakistani channels. Masses flocking to his house. Perhaps, PAF's second Nishan-e-Haider.

- If the pilot lived you would see rescue videos & pictures from the locals. These pictures are quick to circulate & no governmental or military agency can prevent their release.

- In either case, you would see greater activity than you have seen so far. Mi-17 would have been there. PAF engineering crop. would have taken charge, etc, etc. We haven't seen any of that.

- Hassan Siddiqui would not be celebrating as he did if any of his colleagues had been downed.

If F-16s were there the only reason to hide their use would be to not piss off the Americans, because that would be the first thing American Congress would be drum beating about on your behalf. *& perhaps this is the reason that F-16s were not used & kept at bay over Islamabad/Pindi for defensive measures. *

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## Muhammad Omar

sreekimpact said:


> https://quwa.org/2016/07/04/jordan-put-15-f-16ab-mlu-sale-pakistan/



So a Jordanian Air Force plane came in Pakistan to fight Indians and you shot that 

Jordan ain't gonna be happy about this


----------



## SQ8

HRK said:


> IK guaranteed the victory of Modi
> 
> View attachment 542894
> 
> 
> Indian POW Pilot in Pakistan will be released tomorrow


He has not, rather in diplomatic terms it’s shown a big move.

Now if Indian media is essentially the moral equivalent of Indian trolls it just represents the deterioration of their national character.

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## SQ8

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Russian fuselage, Russian design, Russian "Avionics Bloc", Russian Harness...Yes sure, its an F-16....Thank you for making me laugh.


As mentioned before: if this ends tomorrow, it is “officially” stated that it is possible for any mai ka laal Indian to come and count all of Pakistani F-16s just as we lined up our mirages after 71 and see if any was shot down.

But knowing the scum, they will say their counting was off.

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## Hallian_Khan

AsianUnion said:


> Zaid Hamid is not happy with SMQ and IK:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101102859809157122


so am i... these morons dnt deserve any courtesy.... kutay ke dum han ya salay

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## Menace2Society

Oscar said:


> He has not, rather in diplomatic terms it’s shown a big move.
> 
> Now if Indian media is essentially the moral equivalent of Indian trolls it just represents the deterioration of their national character.



Its borderline psychopathic. India is a monster, immoral, unethical and habitual liars. What great people to neighbor.

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## ghazi52

We ensured no casualties and no collateral damage in the operations we undertook. The intent was to show India, we can and would respond if aggression would be thrust upon us." - Prime Minister Imran Khan

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## SQ8

Menace2Society said:


> Its borderline psychopathic. India is a monster, immoral, unethical and habitual liars. What great people to neighbor.


Its just the National historic narrative and character they adopted.

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## AsianLion

Heard Pakistani Establishment want Modi to win the next elections!!!!

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## z9-ec

That's NOT an F-16 it's an BVR missi.

AIM-120C5 CAN BE USED IN AIR DEFENCE ROLE OR STRIKE ROLE BY ALL KINDS OF AIRCRAFTS.


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## Ali Tariq

AsianUnion said:


> Heard Pakistani Establishment want Modi to win the next elections!!!!


The best weapon of Pakistan against India is, 'Narendra Damodardas Modi'.
The man has turned Indian society into an extremist nation, and now he is slowly turning Indian Armed Forces to a political agenda serving force, he is using them to win election. I think, Modi is the best thing happened to Pakistan after '71.

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## El Sidd

AsianUnion said:


> Heard Pakistani Establishment want Modi to win the next elections!!!!



@Sugarcane

apparently you are now spokesperson of the Pakistani 'Establishment'


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## Maxpane

i think its a good move . IK is playing very well. After this news , if india tries to start a new operation then it would not have any moral ground to support. 
Pakistan offered peace india rejected
indian air force cross IB but Pakistan didnot violate but waited and then just took step to show that we can but we dnt want 
when indian air force crossed our border again we shoot down because we have a reason behind action 
and after this we again offered them peace and now offering them their pilot and if india now tries any misadventour then she had no moral ground


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## mshan44




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## AsianLion

We have to understand Indian ego is damaged badly, its Media has lied and battered down, it has been defeated, now prepare to see more lies and misinformation of stories, to cover up!

India, Modi/Media is just trying to show a brave face with another lies and false blaming. LoL.


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## Bilal Khan 777

So i just tuned into the defence briefing from Indian MOD:

A lot of hot air...
24 Pakistani Aircraft
Targeted Indian bases but did not attack
08 Response A/C, Bisons, MKI, Upg Mir 2000
F-16 shot down
Shown piece of AIM-120C5

*No Evidence Shown*
Balakot Attack
Ground Attack Evidence
Air Interceptions
F-16 destruction
Radar Views

*Message Received by India*
Pakistan can come in, and attack, and spoof, and defend when you try to intercept.
This is a real rude awakening for India. A lot of thinking to happen on their part.

Regarding 24 aircraft, congratulations to PAF EW for spoofing Indian ADGE. Proud of you.
So its clear that the aircraft wreckage on Indian side is result of a BVR engagement.

Now they will cry that we used F-16 against them...and plead to US to block the F-16.
Very interesting developments and claims...

Edit: The evidence India showed today will bumboo their whole force Morale. This should constantly remind them of what we are really able to do, despite heavy EW support, and ground clutter. Further, It Reminds me of the time when I used to take off with my F-104, and all Indian A/Cs used to bugger out.

Long Live Pakistan AF.

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## Windjammer

blackuday said:


>



Earlier you lot were claiming on the wreckage of an F-16 engine on TV. However a smart Indian Abhijit Mitra pointed out that it was that of a GE engine and not a P & W engine which PAF F-16s have.
Rest assured, you will also be disappointed by this find as well, in the meantime, why don't you find out and disclose as what did this AMRAAM actually brought down.


----------



## TsAr

@Oscar @Hodor @Windjammer @Bilal Khan 777 just watched the India tri services press conference where they showed a piece of Amram Missile which could mean 2 scenarios.

Either F-16 were used by Pakistan to take down the Indian planes and this piece came from there. Pakistani's are denying coz this would make Uncle Sam unhappy.
Or they are only doing this press conference after they got a piece of Amram from Israel.
Whats your take on it guys.

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## Cuirassier

Muhammad Omar said:


> So a Jordanian Air Force plane came in Pakistan to fight Indians and you shot that
> 
> Jordan ain't gonna be happy about this


This is fake, look at this video,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100783191403778054

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## Sugarcane

Retired Troll said:


> @Sugarcane
> 
> apparently you are now spokesperson of the Pakistani 'Establishment'



Modi ji is in best interest of region, Yogi ji is better but will be unleashed in 2024.

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## El Sidd

Sugarcane said:


> Modi ji is in best interest of region, Yogi ji is better but will be unleashed in 2024.



and there lies my opposition.

why delay the good for tomorrow? When has patience been ever a virtue to us as a Nation?


----------



## AsianLion

*Ex-IAF Cheif Confirms 2 Migs down, 3 Pilots Killed of Indian Airforce*






Indian media & Modi govt will never tell the truth to 1.2 Billion Indians


----------



## SQ8

TsAr said:


> @Oscar @Hodor @Windjammer just watched the India tri services press conference where they showed a piece of Amram Missile which could mean 2 scenarios.
> 
> Either F-16 were used by Pakistan to take down the Indian planes and this piece came from there. Pakistani's are denying coz this would make Uncle Sam unhappy.
> Or they are only doing this press conference after they got a piece of Amram from Israel.
> Whats your take on it guys.


1 is the plausible scenario.

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## Sugarcane

Retired Troll said:


> and there lies my opposition.
> 
> why delay the good for tomorrow? When has patience been ever a virtue to us as a Nation?



You need strong foundation to make Hindustan great again. Modi ji laying strong foundation and it needs time, while construction of marvelous building over it is what Yogi ji have to do, and for that task he will not need that much time.

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## El Sidd

Sugarcane said:


> You need strong foundation to make Hindustan great again. Modi ji laying strong foundation and it needs time, while construction of marvelous building over it is what Yogi ji have to do, and for that task he will not need that much time.



that is just too long a plan. Yogi has a charismatic personality that can make up for these 7 years in just 7 days

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## Windjammer

TsAr said:


> @Oscar @Hodor @Windjammer just watched the India tri services press conference where they showed a piece of Amram Missile which could mean 2 scenarios.
> 
> Either F-16 were used by Pakistan to take down the Indian planes and this piece came from there. Pakistani's are denying coz this would make Uncle Sam unhappy.
> Or they are only doing this press conference after they got a piece of Amram from Israel.
> Whats your take on it guys.


Albeit a lot of these pieces are lying about in Iraq, however i am dismayed that this missile which travels at Mach-4, struck the Indian aircraft in Pakistan which on fire flew back into Indian side, crashed with such impact that it's difficult to distinguish what it was, yet this piece of missile with notable writing survived and was even recovered.


----------



## SQ8

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> So i just tuned into the defence briefing from Indian MOD:
> 
> A lot of hot air...
> 24 Pakistani Aircraft
> Targeted Indian bases but did not attack
> 08 Response A/C, Bisons, MKI, Upg Mir 2000
> F-16 shot down
> Shown piece of AIM-120C5
> 
> *No Evidence Shown*
> Balakot Attack
> Ground Attack Evidence
> Air Interceptions
> F-16 destruction
> Radar Views
> 
> *Message Received by India*
> Pakistan can come in, and attack, and spoof, and defend when you try to intercept.
> This is a real rude awakening for India. A lot of thinking to happen on their part.
> 
> Regarding 24 aircraft, congratulations to PAF EW for spoofing Indian ADGE. Proud of you.
> So its clear that the aircraft wreckage on Indian side is result of a BVR engagement.
> 
> Now they will cry that we used F-16 against them...and plead to US to block the F-16.
> 
> Very interesting developments and claims...


To say their claims are rubbish would be insulting to the word rubbish.

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## Dreamer.

The Accountant said:


> No its not ... Isy khty hain pyar sy lena ... Pakistan is not giving any opportunity to India to start a war ...
> 
> we showed them the mirror ... We took down 2 planes ... Pay them heavy casualty in Sialkot ... So message is already given


Read my post again. I said we will realize the mistake afterwards..... some members are beginning to see it, some still bury their head in the sand. Anyone who thinks this was some sort of great move by IK / moral victory or whatever needs to first come back to this planet and second learn the spelling of the word hindu.


----------



## Hellfire

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> See the picture in the backgroun---with arms in the air---
> 
> View attachment 542688
> 
> 
> Thanks to a poster on defence.pk




See two other hands - one left and one right, raised in background? Have you never seen two hands raised in exultation? One can only spin an incident in so many ways. And Pakistan, its PM and its Services, are getting a bad name over telling inaccuracies and then revising, howsoever one can spin it as an indication of being amiable to corrections as @AgNoStiC MuSliM has made it out to be. Shows nothing other than a complete lack of situational awareness in PAF/PA/ISPR/GoP. 

Anyways .. you have the serial number of the aircraft shot down. I am sure you have the resources and the capability to deduct, sans the propaganda being dished out. Like I said earlier, I do not buy into propaganda easily, I take my time to get my facts lined up and then speak, to those who have the ability to think and understand.

regards


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100986223601090563

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## sohail.ishaque

our PM is BAAAP of HATAM-TAI


----------



## TsAr

Windjammer said:


> Albeit a lot of these pieces are lying about in Iraq, however i am dismayed that this missile which travels at Mach-4, struck the Indian aircraft in Pakistan which on fire flew back into Indian side, crashed with such impact that it's difficult to distinguish what it was, yet this piece of missile with notable writing survived and was even recovered.


Thank you for your input, I doubt it came from Iraq as there were no aerial battles in Iraq, most likely Israel gave it to them or it was our missile which went up their As*


----------



## Hellfire

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> No. You’re confusing premature dissemination of information with some sort of grand conspiracy by the PA, which, ironically, is the kind of conspiratorial propaganda typically distributed by the Indian establishment, propaganda you claim not to buy into easily.
> 
> All the information from sources in this end claims that no No F-16’s were involved in the engagement with the IAF fighters. Of course it’s off the record info, so I’ll always put that as a caveat, that it is open to correction pending new publicly available facts and evidence.




You have your answers. Am sure you can understand that claiming premature dissemination of information as an excuse merely serves to portray either a lack of situational awareness by PAF/PA/ISPR/GoP or the other, a deliberate misinformation campaign being undertaken as historically the civil establishment has always been the 'fall-guy' for the Military's incapabilities.

You now have the Tail Number also, I believe, in open domain. 

I shall, for now, merely refrain from posting till next thing comes, as the thread is more of spinning of more than one can wrap ... 

Like I said AM, I rarely fall to propaganda .... your side's or mine.


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Windjammer said:


> Albeit a lot of these pieces are lying about in Iraq, however i am dismayed that this missile which travels at Mach-4, struck the Indian aircraft in Pakistan which on fire flew back into Indian side, crashed with such impact that it's difficult to distinguish what it was, yet this piece of missile with notable writing survived and was even recovered.



When a missile is hit, the rocket motor is always found in the shape as this one was.

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## Talon

TsAr said:


> @Oscar @Hodor @Windjammer @Bilal Khan 777 just watched the India tri services press conference where they showed a piece of Amram Missile which could mean 2 scenarios.
> 
> Either F-16 were used by Pakistan to take down the Indian planes and this piece came from there. Pakistani's are denying coz this would make Uncle Sam unhappy.
> Or they are only doing this press conference after they got a piece of Amram from Israel.
> Whats your take on it guys.


Point 1

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## sohail.ishaque

Its actually 2 mig and 1 su30. This ABHI is SU30 pilot



AsianUnion said:


> *Ex-IAF Cheif Confirms 2 Migs down, 3 Pilots Killed of Indian Airforce*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian media & Modi govt will never tell the truth to 1.2 Billion Indians


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Vibrio said:


> You now have the Tail Number also, I believe, in open domain


What's the alleged tail number?

WRT to the rest of your post, my response is the same as my previous one so we'll just agree to disagree.

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## TsAr

Vibrio said:


> You have your answers. Am sure you can understand that claiming premature dissemination of information as an excuse merely serves to portray either a lack of situational awareness by PAF/PA/ISPR/GoP or the other, a deliberate misinformation campaign being undertaken as historically the civil establishment has always been the 'fall-guy' for the Military's incapabilities.
> 
> You now have the Tail Number also, I believe, in open domain.
> 
> I shall, for now, merely refrain from posting till next thing comes, as the thread is more of spinning of more than one can wrap ...
> 
> Like I said AM, I rarely fall to propaganda .... your side's or mine.


what tail number are you talking about, kindly shed some light.

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## Hellfire

VCheng said:


> Let's just say for now that let the present inflammation die down a bit before a rational discussion can take place.




Impossible. It is going to be around for sometime.

Recall what I mentioned - economic costs? What do you think, in your view, is the capability of Pakistan to continue to be seen standing up for a terror group proscribed by UN and *after* the "Iron Brother" more or less, indicated to them to fend for themselves? How long, do you think, will PAF be able to put up it's aircrafts every time 4 or 5 IAF aircrafts converge, with Intelligence and Surveillance capability of India not limited to Indian resources alone now?

It is a game of economics, Saudi Finance Minister is flying in ... do we need to guess why?

I did say, IAF will stay within our side of LC today, and has weapons free. 

Interesting times ahead indeed.


----------



## TsAr

sohail.ishaque said:


> Its actually 2 mig and 1 su30. This ABHI is SU30 pilot


Pilots get rotated between different squadrons and planes, the video which was from youtube is old.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

TsAr said:


> @Oscar @Hodor @Windjammer @Bilal Khan 777 just watched the India tri services press conference where they showed a piece of Amram Missile which could mean 2 scenarios.
> 
> Either F-16 were used by Pakistan to take down the Indian planes and this piece came from there. Pakistani's are denying coz this would make Uncle Sam unhappy.
> Or they are only doing this press conference after they got a piece of Amram from Israel.
> Whats your take on it guys.


Its 1.
Haven't you heard the conversation of PAF pilot who destroyed their jets ?
PAF has hit them hard, even killed 350 of their soldiers in some kind of heaquarter which they are not showing because of getting zaleeled by their public. And Pakistan can't make uncle sam unhappy by telling the world that we crossed the LOC.


----------



## HRK

blackuday said:


>








Detail of the contract




http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...raytheon-wins-$200m-for-amraam-(dec.-23).html or
Web Archive link
https://web.archive.org/save/http:/...raytheon-wins-$200m-for-amraam-(dec.-23).html

@Horus , @The Eagle If possible plz post these images to twitter page

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## Hellfire

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> @Vibrio
> 
> With respect to the wrong images and videos being shared on various Pakistani media platforms (including this one) I can only say that they should be ignored, as should the Indian media when it comes to various claims..




I agree .. obfuscation, some downright stupid to idiotic, are prevalent on both sides. Anyways, this is going to be a protracted engagement.


----------



## ptldM3

sohail.ishaque said:


> Its actually 2 mig and 1 su30. This ABHI is SU30 pilot





Again no SU-30 was downed. Most experienced pilots will be qualified on multiple platform.

By the way Russian aircraft use yellow primer on internal parts, draw your own conclusions.


----------



## Windjammer

TsAr said:


> Thank you for your input, I doubt it came from Iraq as there were no aerial battles in Iraq, most likely Israel gave it to them or it was our missile which went up their As*


There were plenty of air battles during the Gulf Wars and although we saw videos of a victorious JF-17 pilot celebrating with his crew, maybe there were more than one type involved in the package.

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## SQ8

ptldM3 said:


> Again no SU-30 was downed. Most experienced pilots will be qualified on multiple platform.
> 
> By the way Russian aircraft use yellow primer on internal parts, draw your own conclusions.


Until the fog of war settles nothing can be made clear. The Indian claim on F-16 is pure rubbish as well; any observer is welcome to come in and count the F-16s today: they are all here.

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## zeee

Blatant lies from indian officers.... F16 fell inside pakistan but AIM 120 fell in Rajauri which is 10 Km away from line of control... u have to be as idiot as Indians to trust this

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## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> There were plenty of air battles during the Gulf Wars and although we saw videos of a victorious JF-17 pilot celebrating with his crew, maybe there were motr than one type involved in the package.


No F-16 was invovled in the offensive operation, but there is no mention if a F-16 on our side of the border on CAP wasn’t involved.
The missile wasn’t necessary fired by the offensive package.

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## Great Janjua

zeee said:


> Blatant lies from indian officers.... F16 fell inside pakistan but AIM 120 fell in Rajauri which is 10 Km away from line of control... u have to be as idiot as Indians to trust this


Imran Khan might get irritated by their false bravado and end up not releasing abhinandan


----------



## AsianLion

Wing Commander Abhi is SU 30 pilot atleast the Pakistanis who captured him can confirm his plane?

Indian media claim he also shot down F-16 with proofs, and it was Wing Commander Abhi who did that, lets just ask this all questions to captured Indian Pilot before its too late.

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## Windjammer

AsianUnion said:


> *Ex-IAF Cheif Confirms 2 Migs down, 3 Pilots Killed of Indian Airforce*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian media & Modi govt will never tell the truth to 1.2 Billion Indians


So are we led to believe that a MiG-21 trainer was sent up to intercept the PAF aircraft.

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## Hellfire

TsAr said:


> what tail number are you talking about, kindly shed some light.




I believe that there is some talk of the tail number of an ex-Jordanian Air Force Origin F-16 being seen on some or the other social media. My apologies, I do not have any access to the same right now as am not on Facebook (or is it on twitter?). I am sure, it must be doing the rounds here too. 

Regards


----------



## AsianLion

Thats what everyone is saying it is no doubt 2 Indian Jets shot down with 3 pilots lost, we have established that, and most truly believe its Mig 21 Bison with Israeli electronics with 1 pilot and the other is Su-30 Mki with 2 pilots, but some say its may well be Mig 29 which got recently upgraded massively was the one shot down.



Windjammer said:


> So are we led to believe that a MiG-21 trainer was sent up to intercept the PAF aircraft.





sohail.ishaque said:


> Its actually 2 mig and 1 su30. This ABHI is SU30 pilot


----------



## Talon

Windjammer said:


> There were plenty of air battles during the Gulf Wars and although we saw videos of a victorious JF-17 pilot celebrating with his crew, maybe there were more than one type involved in the package.


A lot more than 1 type.

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## ptldM3

AsianUnion said:


> Wing Commander Abhi is SU 30 pilot atleast the Pakistanis who captured him can confirm his plane?
> 
> Indian media claim he also shot down F-16 with proofs, and it was Wing Commander Abhi who did that, lets just ask this all questions to captured Indian Pilot before its too late.






Aircraft wreckage is mig-21. Pretty much all SU-30 pilots are qualified on the mig-21. The other wreckage is of a helicopter.


----------



## Talon

Oscar said:


> No F-16 was invovled in the offensive operation, but there is no mention if a F-16 on our side of the border on CAP wasn’t involved.
> The missile wasn’t necessary fired by the offensive package.


Offensive sortie just did the bombing and nothing else.

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## ghazi768

TsAr said:


> @Oscar @Hodor @Windjammer @Bilal Khan 777 just watched the India tri services press conference where they showed a piece of Amram Missile which could mean 2 scenarios.
> 
> Either F-16 were used by Pakistan to take down the Indian planes and this piece came from there. Pakistani's are denying coz this would make Uncle Sam unhappy.
> Or they are only doing this press conference after they got a piece of Amram from Israel.
> Whats your take on it guys.


Number 9th if you understand what I mean..

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## AsianLion

thesolar65 said:


> The details of PAF pilot of the F 16. The pilot who was killed by Wg Cdr Abhinandan has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron (Sherdils) flying F-16 A/B. He was the son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) .




That is very interesting, where you got that information from ? Looks like you said PAF has now identified it.


----------



## VCheng

Vibrio said:


> Impossible. It is going to be around for sometime.
> 
> Recall what I mentioned - economic costs? What do you think, in your view, is the capability of Pakistan to continue to be seen standing up for a terror group proscribed by UN and *after* the "Iron Brother" more or less, indicated to them to fend for themselves? How long, do you think, will PAF be able to put up it's aircrafts every time 4 or 5 IAF aircrafts converge, with Intelligence and Surveillance capability of India not limited to Indian resources alone now?
> 
> It is a game of economics, Saudi Finance Minister is flying in ... do we need to guess why?
> 
> I did say, IAF will stay within our side of LC today, and has weapons free.
> 
> Interesting times ahead indeed.



_"The sinews of war are infinite money."_ - Cicero.

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## zeee

thesolar65 said:


> The details of PAF pilot of the F 16. The pilot who was killed by Wg Cdr Abhinandan has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron (Sherdils) flying F-16 A/B. He was the son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) .


Your air force officer just claimed two pilots from f 16 bailing out... your propaganda machine was perhaps also hit in yesterday's strike....its allover the place


----------



## The Accountant

Hodor said:


> A lot more than 1 type.


Can you please reveal the second plane ... was it mig 21 or mig 29 ?


----------



## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

thesolar65 said:


> The details of PAF pilot of the F 16. The pilot who was killed by Wg Cdr Abhinandan has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron (Sherdils) flying F-16 A/B. He was the son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) .


prove it.


----------



## MastanKhan

HRK said:


> to f.u.c.k with moral pedestal ..... we are dealing with them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this difficult hours the only thing I am interested are
> - National Interest
> - Sovereignty
> - Dignity
> 
> F.U.C.K MORALITY .... F.U.C.K IT ..... Be prepared to be HUMILIATED and attack by India again .... *we are assisting Modi to raise the morale of indian troops *
> 
> Our BASTARDS have shown the sign of weakness ..... it POLITICAL SURRENDER after all the current fuss
> 
> (Advance apology from mod team for the use of inappropriate language ..... but I find no dignified way convey my understanding of this move)



Hi,

That IK gesture is absolutely disgusting---. The pilot should have gone thru the due process---.

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## monitor

List of Indian Aircrafts Crashed or Shot down in year 2019 . . .

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## sohail.ishaque

ptldM3 said:


> Again no SU-30 was downed. Most experienced pilots will be qualified on multiple platform.
> 
> By the way Russian aircraft use yellow primer on internal parts, draw your own conclusions.


Well if you don't want to believe that a Russian made jet has been downed then you should ban indian pilots in them. If you let idiots play with your tech they will make your tech fall to the ground and destroying your pride.

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## Talon

The Accountant said:


> Can you please reveal the second plane ... was it mig 21 or mig 29 ?


I meant from the PAF side...as far as your question is concerned issue is between mig21 and su30 I think both were mig21.

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## maximuswarrior

blackuday said:


> No one can answer
> 
> I must come to the conclusion that F16 was shot down by JF-17



Look at this retard.

We shot Indian airplanes and have their pilots in our custody, but this fool goes on about F-16 being shot by JF-17 LMAO

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## ghazi52

minutes after the CAA’s announcement, flight tracking service, _Flight Radar 24, _tweeted an update on Pakistan’s airspace.






The tracking service tweeted: “Pakistani Airspace has just been opened for some flights. Air Arabia #G9825 is the first flight to leave Pakistan.”

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## monitor

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That IK gesture is absolutely disgusting---. The pilot should have gone thru the due process---.



Why He wants to release him him so early is not clear but what you can do to A POW (though as per Geneva convention you were not official declared war ) ? can you you torture him for information ?


----------



## Talon

sohail.ishaque said:


> Its 1.
> Haven't you heard the conversation of PAF pilot who destroyed their jets ?
> PAF has hit them hard, even killed 350 of their soldiers in some kind of heaquarter which they are not showing because of getting zaleeled by their public. And Pakistan can't make uncle sam unhappy by telling the world that we crossed the LOC.


I think not everyone has listened that convo and that is a very poor act done by the ex senior who recorded the call and then made it viral.The junior trusted him and told some stuff and the other guy acted very irresponsibly.

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## atya

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That IK gesture is absolutely disgusting---. The pilot should have gone thru the due process---.


I diagree, his gesture should silence any misadventures Indians were planning. If they attack now then the whole world knows who's the aggressor. Indian narrative falls flat on their face.

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## Sugarcane

ghazi52 said:


> minutes after the CAA’s announcement, flight tracking service, _Flight Radar 24, _tweeted an update on Pakistan’s airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tracking service tweeted: “Pakistani Airspace has just been opened for some flights. Air Arabia #G9825 is the first flight to leave Pakistan.”



Why we opened airspace for India?


----------



## maximuswarrior

ptldM3 said:


> Again no SU-30 was downed. Most experienced pilots will be qualified on multiple platform.
> 
> By the way Russian aircraft use yellow primer on internal parts, draw your own conclusions.



We know Su-30 is a very potent and capable platform. It is the pilot that makes decisions inside a plane. Trust me, IAF can crash and lose anything and that includes Su-30.

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## Sugarcane

monitor said:


> List of Indian Aircrafts Crashed or Shot down in year 2019 . . .



Source?


----------



## MastanKhan

monitor said:


> Why He wants to release him him so early is not clear but what you can do to A POW (though as per Geneva convention you were not official declared war ) ? can you you torture him for information ?



Hi,

No reason to torture---. But he needs to be held for a reasonable time---.

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## YeBeWarned

monitor said:


> Why He wants to release him him so early is not clear but what you can do to A POW (though as per Geneva convention you were not official declared war ) ? can you you torture him for information ?



back door diplomacy , and other countries were involved , most likely US .


----------



## Talon

ghazi52 said:


> minutes after the CAA’s announcement, flight tracking service, _Flight Radar 24, _tweeted an update on Pakistan’s airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tracking service tweeted: “Pakistani Airspace has just been opened for some flights. Air Arabia #G9825 is the first flight to leave Pakistan.”


The flights that were stuck in Pakistan have been allowed to go back to their respective countries.


----------



## SorryNotSorry

Muhammad Omar said:


> So a Jordanian Air Force plane came in Pakistan to fight Indians and you shot that
> 
> Jordan ain't gonna be happy about this


Genius, Pakistan flies F-16s from Jordan.


----------



## ptldM3

sohail.ishaque said:


> Well if you don't want to believe that a Russian made jet has been downed then you should ban indian pilots in them. If you let idiots play with your tech they will make your tech fall to the ground and destroying your pride.




Don't be ridiculous, the wreckage was a Mig-21, essentially equipped with Israeli F-16 avionics, the other aircraft was an Mi-17 in which the circumstances of the crash is unknown. Everything else regarding SU-30s and Mig-29s is unsubstantiated gossip and baseless rumors.


----------



## monitor

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> No reason to torture---. But he needs to be held for a reasonable time---.



I think this early release of Pilot gives Indian media and modi as a win against Pakistan .

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## syed_yusuf

Confirmed is 2 Mig-21 Bison hunt down by PAF, MI-17 down reason unknown. but it seems MI-17 got hit by something PAF, IAF or ground fire.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

with AIM 120, its clear that hum unko ghus kai mar kai aye hain. wo alag baat hai uncle sam ki waja sai bata nahi rahay dunia ko

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## NA71

RPK said:


> If he is not doing it Karachi will be in dark for long time


really?..and we let it happened without payback? you have more cities and we have more
paramaanu

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## The Accountant

Hodor said:


> I think not everyone has listened that convo and that is a very poor act done by the ex senior who recorded the call and then made it viral.The junior trusted him and told some stuff and the other guy acted very irresponsibly.



I think this is a method of releasing information unofficially ...


----------



## blackuday

HOT

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## sohail.ishaque

their AF chief showing AIM 120 as the proof that wo ghus kai mar kai gaye hain. Salay chootiye, kal ko tu apnay maray howe foji bi dikhaye ga. Modi ka dushman lagta hai.

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## AsianLion

According to an eye witness: that Mi-17 broke in mid air. A possible missile hit with JF-17 SD-10??

Btw JF-17's first Air to Air kill was an Iranian drone.

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## NA71

sohail.ishaque said:


> with AIM 120, its clear that hum unko ghus kai mar kai aye hain. wo alag baat hai uncle sam ki waja sai bata nahi rahay dunia ko


why....uncle sam....say it was uncle sam who encouraged India to take action in first place .....we responded ...they crossed LOC so we did.


----------



## Sugarcane

blackuday said:


> HOT



Point?


----------



## SHAH820

blackuday said:


>


yup you are studpid

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## Sine Nomine

Hodor said:


> I think not everyone has listened that convo and that is a very poor act done by the ex senior who recorded the call and then made it viral.The junior trusted him and told some stuff and the other guy acted very irresponsibly.


That whole event coverage was full of errors on our part.
1-Failure of SAR team when it came to stopping peoples from reocording downed pilot video.
2-Photography of pilot when he is being escorted to vehical.
3-Premature recording of video of pilot in vehical.
4-Recording of video by keeping pilot standing that too in bad condition.
5-Sharing of this all stuff by locals.
6-Failure of Government in taking down internet in that area.
7-Multiple conflicting tweets by ISPR.
It has been a disaster.

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## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101135459936358400


----------



## blackuday

SHAH820 said:


> yup you are studpid
> 
> View attachment 542985



No AIM120C5 ok !


----------



## SQ8

Vibrio said:


> I believe that there is some talk of the tail number of an ex-Jordanian Air Force Origin F-16 being seen on some or the other social media. My apologies, I do not have any access to the same right now as am not on Facebook (or is it on twitter?). I am sure, it must be doing the rounds here too.
> 
> Regards


Once this is over- any Indian media official is welcome to request and come over and count the F-16s(or any other PAF aircraft) in their bases.
The numbers and serials haven’t changed- 
The propoganda machine is latching onto debris from a missile that was fired with every right to fire it.. whatever that missile struck or simply landed on thr ground. 
No PAF aircraft was lost.
Sadly, on your side emotional attachment and the lambs leading the lions have the narrative for now.

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## chengdusudise

Sugarcane said:


> Point?


A piece of metal crap with new paint.you know india is very good at painting for example their bramouse

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## AsianLion

Indian media fooled and lied again, picked up AMRAMS missile pieces of Taiwanese Airforce F16 sold by US, took picture from net and showed as Pakistan F16 AMRAAM!

AIM-120C-5's Taiwanese AMRAAMS shown as Pakistan F16 AMRAAMS Missile!!! 

This Indian media is the biggest liar on planet earth, no wonder they are in the sh*tish stage then ever...f***....Time wasters.



blackuday said:


> HOT


----------



## blackuday

AsianUnion said:


> Indian media fooled and lied again, picked up AMRAMS missile pieces of Taiwanese Airforce F16 sold by US, took picture from net and showed as Pakistan F16 AMRAAM!
> 
> AIM-120C-5's Taiwanese AMRAAMS shown as Pakistan F16 AMRAAMS!!! These Indian media is the biggest liar on planet earth, no wonder they are in the sh*tish stage then ever.



Documents from 2010

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mMulSFQHqqkJ:www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/cpic/cp/docs/USA002235-10_Complete%20Foreign%20Military%20Sales.pdf+&cd=1&hl=vi&ct=clnk&gl=vn

Pakistan may have bought a batch of AIM-120C5 similar to Taiwan in the following years

The United States of America sold 500 AIM-120C5 missiles to Pakistan under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. The US Air Force awarded the procurement contract valued at $269 million to Raytheon on November 17, 2006. *The missiles and their associated services and equipment should be delivered to Pakistan by April 2011.*

http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/AIM-120C-AMRAAM_a001164003.aspx


----------



## ghazi52



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## Great Janjua

SorryNotSorry said:


> Genius, Pakistan flies F-16s from Jordan.


At least watch the fucking wreckage video how delusional can you be, I feel like am banging my head against a brick wall


----------



## Great Janjua

AsianUnion said:


> According to an eye witness: that Mi-17 broke in mid air. A possible missile hit with JF-17 SD-10??
> 
> Btw JF-17's first Air to Air kill was an Iranian drone.


The local kashmir people said they heard two load bangs and saw the chopper was on fire and crashed


----------



## Windjammer

Hodor said:


> I think not everyone has listened that convo and that is a very poor act done by the ex senior who recorded the call and then made it viral.The junior trusted him and told some stuff and the other guy acted very irresponsibly.


Sir, was that genuine, i received the recordings this morning but was under impression that it was fake.

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## SorryNotSorry

Great Janjua said:


> At least watch the fucking wreckage video how delusional can you be, I feel like am banging my head against a brick wall


Pointing out a fact doesn’t mean I’m talking about the wreckage.


----------



## SHAH820

blackuday said:


> No AIM120C5 ok !


As i was saying




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM

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## AsianLion

Great Janjua said:


> The local kashmir people said they heard two load bangs and saw the chopper was on fire and crashed




Tats what I am pointing out, It was a hit by SD-10 BVR missile on the Indian MI-17 Helicopter because it blew up mid-air killing 5 IAF Officers.

That is why Indian Airforce moral is broken and weak, they have lost it all.


----------



## ghazi52

Another Bollywood Propaganda Busted by Pakistan Defence.

Remains of AIM-120C5 AMRAAM Serial Number: FA8675-05-C-0070 was sold to Taiwan Air Force, not PAF


----------



## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> Sir, was that genuine, i received the recordings this morning but was under impression that it was fake.


It should NEVER have been released. It was very irresponsible of the senior.

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## ptldM3

AsianUnion said:


> Indian media fooled and lied again, picked up AMRAMS missile pieces of Taiwanese Airforce F16 sold by US, took picture from net and showed as Pakistan F16 AMRAAM!
> 
> AIM-120C-5's Taiwanese AMRAAMS shown as Pakistan F16 AMRAAMS Missile!!!
> 
> This Indian media is the biggest liar on planet earth, no wonder they are in the sh*tish stage then ever...f***....Time wasters.





Did India order the Taiwanese missile through eBay or Amazon? Did they pay extra for a speedy delivery? And did they order the entire missile or just wreckage?


----------



## SHAH820

ghazi52 said:


> Another Bollywood Propaganda Busted by Pakistan Defence.
> 
> Remains of AIM-120C5 AMRAAM Serial Number: FA8675-05-C-0070 was sold to Taiwan Air Force, not PAF


even it was sold to any country jf-17 can be equip with AIM-120

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## blackuday

ghazi52 said:


> Another Bollywood Propaganda Busted by Pakistan Defence.
> 
> Remains of AIM-120C5 AMRAAM Serial Number: FA8675-05-C-0070 was sold to Taiwan Air Force, not PAF



Pakistan may have bought a batch of AIM-120C5 similar to Taiwan in the following years

The United States of America sold 500 AIM-120C5 missiles to Pakistan under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. The US Air Force awarded the procurement contract valued at $269 million to Raytheon on November 17, 2006. *The missiles and their associated services and equipment should be delivered to Pakistan by April 2011.*

http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/AIM-120C-AMRAAM_a001164003.aspx


----------



## Great Janjua

SorryNotSorry said:


> Pointing out a fact doesn’t mean I’m talking about the wreckage.


And I thought you were one off the sane Indian members guess everyday is not diwali

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## Jinn Baba

Oscar said:


> It should NEVER have been released. It was very irresponsible of the senior.



Disgraceful! I hope action is taken against the person who released it!!!


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Wreckage video, shows Indian markings and then the parts which Indians are claiming belong to F-16s.

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## SorryNotSorry

ghazi52 said:


> Another Bollywood Propaganda Busted by Pakistan Defence.
> 
> Remains of AIM-120C5 AMRAAM Serial Number: FA8675-05-C-0070 was sold to Taiwan Air Force, not PAF

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## Talon

Windjammer said:


> Sir, was that genuine, i received the recordings this morning but was under impression that it was fake.


Yeah I received it early last night and confirmed it twice,even though it was sent to me by reliable source.Its totally genuine.

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## blackuday

AsianUnion said:


> Welldone, that specific missile AIM-120-C5 Indian media showed is not Pakistani AIM-120-C5 cuz the contract number is different to the ones sold to Pakistan in 2011. That picture is from Taiwanese AMRAAMS and the contract number clearly states and matches with Taiwanese inventory as per now! Cuz every country that buys from USA has different contracts.



The word Taiwan has been incorrectly written,

It might be typing. How does India have an AIM-120? From Taiwan?

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## Great Janjua

AsianUnion said:


> Tats what I am pointing out, It was a hit by SD-10 BVR missile on the Indian MI-17 Helicopter because it blew up mid-air killing 5 IAF Officers.
> 
> That is why Indian Airforce moral is broken and weak, they have lost it all.


They are walking around proudly with a air to air missile which was found 10km inside IOK retards as usual

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## Talwar e Pakistan

monitor said:


> I think this early release of Pilot gives Indian media and modi as a win against Pakistan .


I have trust in the Government, they are painting India as warmongers in front of the world. Release of pilot will not calm escalations but it will show the world that Pakistan carried itself responsibly and maturely, extending a hand of peace while India continues to beat the drums of war.

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## ghazi52




----------



## SorryNotSorry

Great Janjua said:


> And I thought you were one off the sane Indian members guess everyday is not diwali



Lol was just correcting the other dude, but ok.


----------



## AsianLion

Not typing error, But against India its says in the list Aircraft Propellers and Components not AIM 120-C5 missiles.



blackuday said:


> The word Taiwan has been incorrectly written,
> 
> It might be typing. How does India have an AIM-120? From Taiwan?





I donot see Pakistan on the list with AIM-120 C5 sold to Pakistan. It says Taiwan. Can you provide that?


----------



## Moon

SorryNotSorry said:


> View attachment 542987


Where does it say that, that specific AIM 120 was delivered to Pakistan?


AsianUnion said:


> Not typing error, India was possibly sold AIM-120-C5 missiles from USA which the world or Pakistan not aware of. A lot of deals has gone under hand between US and India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I donot see Pakistan on the list with AIM-120 C5 sold to Pakistan. It says Taiwan. Can you provide that?


Or could be a poor fabrication from their part. 
What we've witnessed till now is that they'll not hesitate to lie through their teeth.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

sohail.ishaque said:


> Its 1.
> Haven't you heard the conversation of PAF pilot who destroyed their jets ?
> PAF has hit them hard, even killed 350 of their soldiers in some kind of heaquarter which they are not showing because of getting zaleeled by their public. And Pakistan can't make uncle sam unhappy by telling the world that we crossed the LOC.


Could you share?


----------



## Menace2Society

You are arguing with delusional retards. I congratulate Pakistanis showing the youngsters of the world what a bunch of retards these indians are. A propped up corrupt ponzi scheme extremist democracy.


----------



## Windjammer

Hodor said:


> Yeah I received it early last night and confirmed it twice,even though it was sent to me by reliable source.Its totally genuine.


Holy Smoke , was that the surprise,


----------



## Gorgin Khan

AsianUnion said:


> Not typing error, India was possibly sold AIM-120-C5 missiles from USA which the world or Pakistan not aware of. A lot of deals has gone under hand between US and India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I donot see Pakistan on the list with AIM-120 C5 sold to Pakistan. It says Taiwan. Can you provide that?



500 of these missiles were sold to pakistan back with the block 52 deal. So pakistan has it in the inventory.

But the question is that the missile which india displayed is pakistani or not. If yes it means we shot down two aircraft. If no then we are still happy with a single kill.


----------



## blackuday

In 2010, AIM-120D is not complete to serve, this is wrong

read Pak pls

*Norwegian Rocket Makers Save AMRAAM 
by James Dunnigan
December 22, 2012*

https://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Norwegian-Rocket-Makers-Save-AMRAAM-12-22-2012.asp


----------



## soundHound

AsianUnion said:


> Tats what I am pointing out, It was a hit by SD-10 BVR missile on the Indian MI-17 Helicopter because it blew up mid-air killing 5 IAF Officers.
> 
> That is why Indian Airforce moral is broken and weak, they have lost it all.



You mean to say helicopter was shot down approx 200km far with a missile having range of approx 70km?


----------



## AsianLion

Gorgin Khan said:


> 500 of these missiles were sold to pakistan back with the block 52 deal. So pakistan has it in the inventory.
> 
> But the question is that the missile which india displayed is pakistani or not. If yes it means we shot down two aircraft. If no then we are still happy with a single kill.




Yes, Pakistan were sold 500 AMRAAMS Missiles, and what I am trying to establish is that F16s were not used but AIM-120 C5 Missile was used by Pakistan which either made the Mi-17 kill or the IAF jets two kills by Jf-17s.


----------



## SorryNotSorry

Mr.Meap said:


> Where does it say that, that specific AIM 120 was delivered to Pakistan?
> 
> Or could be a poor fabrication from their part.
> What we've witnessed till now is that they'll not hesitate to lie through their teeth.


Read where the highlighted text is. The bottom para.
I’m not gonna type it up.


----------



## blackuday

*AIM-120D AMRAAM*




_Initial Operational Capability (IOC):_ 2015
_Total Production:_ ?
_Unitary Cost:_ USD$1.2 million
_Also Known As:_ AIM-120C8
_Origin:_ United States of America
_Corporations:_ Raytheon

http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/AIM-120D-AMRAAM_a001164006.aspx


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## AsianLion

soundHound said:


> You mean to say helicopter was shot down approx 200km far with a missile having range of approx 70km?



Heard from your own Indian media eye witness accounts of the MI-17 Helicopter Mid-Air blew up, with something, it was hit by something mid-air, all am saying it could be SD-10 or AIM-120 C5 missile by JF-17s.


----------



## Benign Persona

Mark my words this guy (indian pilot) going to be a big hero in India and in a few days he will all over media claiming killing an F 16 destroying many posts along the border and God knows what not.

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## soundHound

AsianUnion said:


> Yes, Pakistan were sold 500 AMRAAMS Missiles, and what I am trying to establish is that F16s were not used but AIM-120 C5 Missile was used by Pakistan which either made the Mi-17 kill or the IAF jets two kills by Jf-17s.



You mean to say JF17 can carry AIM's, well this is something new.


----------



## b4umsf




----------



## Gorgin Khan

blackuday said:


> In 2010, AIM-120D is not complete to serve, this is wrong
> 
> read Pak pls
> 
> *Norwegian Rocket Makers Save AMRAAM *
> *by James Dunnigan*
> *December 22, 2012*
> 
> https://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Norwegian-Rocket-Makers-Save-AMRAAM-12-22-2012.asp



If you would kindly like to do a little bit research , AMRAAM has confirmed kills in iraq and in many other places throughout the 90s , So please stop wasting our time. 

Because neither you want to look into the history nor are you accepting any facts!


----------



## soundHound

AsianUnion said:


> Heard from your own Indian media eye witness accounts of the MI-17 Helicopter Mid-Air blew up, with something, it was hit by something mid-air, all am saying it could be SD-10 or AIM-120 C5 missile by JF-17s.




This is getting hilarious now first you say don't trust indian media, then you say you got info from indian media, can we stick to one thing? and using what you shot a chopper 200km far? a ballistic missile?

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## RPK

nahmed71 said:


> really?..and we let it happened without payback? you have more cities and we have more
> paramaanu


You opened your air traffic? Lol go and see flight radar24. Except Pakistanis everyone is traveling


----------



## b4umsf

soundHound said:


> This is getting hilarious now first you say don't trust indian media, then you say you got info from indian media, can we stick to one thing? and using what you shot a chopper 200km far? a ballistic missile?


----------



## blackuday




----------



## Gorgin Khan

RPK said:


> You opened your air traffic? Lol go and see flight radar24. Except Pakistanis everyone is traveling



The thing is indians got rapped pretty badly on the ground. We do not want civilian aircraft to see those dead bodies. And congrats we know your airtraffic is now going through arabian sea.


----------



## ghazi52

India shot down this F16

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## b4umsf

This is only for indians.

Pakistanis should stay away from this video


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## GDP Adil Khan Niazi

Explain this to me:

Releasing IAF pilot is a massive loss for us. Hum unky IOK se utha kar nahi laaye ya aghwa nahi kiya jo chor den he crossed with bad intentions. Why would we even think of releasing, acha rehta jab wo hit kar deta kisi jaga ko?


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## Gorgin Khan

AsianUnion said:


> Yes, Pakistan were sold 500 AMRAAMS Missiles, and what I am trying to establish is that F16s were not used but AIM-120 C5 Missile was used by Pakistan which either made the Mi-17 kill or the IAF jets two kills by Jf-17s.



@AsianUnion Indians are stuck in a dillema. Its a total humiliation for them , thats why the are trying to come up with this innovative kiddish excuses... You are Right in either case!

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## b4umsf

Only for indian. Pakistanis plz stay away from this video


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## arbit

Areesh said:


> Brilliant work bro
> 
> @arbit Feeling humiliated?? Or you guys don't feel that?



Why would I feel humiliated? If I m wrong will be happy to be corrected. 
However our airforce has confirmed a F-16 was downed. AIM debris has also been recovered and has been documented as proof. So this busts the first lie of your igsr (whatever) that F-16 weren't even used. 
LO fuckin L

So F-16 WERE used. AIM was fired. Ask your yahoos whey they lied even about the use of F 16.

Hows your cousin btw?
Will talk later once our man is back. Imran Khan is not that big an idiot after all.


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## Hellfire

Oscar said:


> Once this is over- any Indian media official is welcome to request and come over and count the F-16s(or any other PAF aircraft) in their bases.
> The numbers and serials haven’t changed-
> The propoganda machine is latching onto debris from a missile that was fired with every right to fire it.. whatever that missile struck or simply landed on thr ground.
> No PAF aircraft was lost.
> Sadly, on your side emotional attachment and the lambs leading the lions have the narrative for now.




So, Wg Cdr Shahzaz ud Din of 19 Sqn 'Sherdils' son of Air Marshal Waseem ud Din Dy CoAS (Ops) is not the officer KIA?

Just got this one from somewhere. Unverified. So asking straight.


----------



## BijliKhala

Guys, I am sure, this act will eventually bring good to Pakistan in all front. By doing this, Pakistan is proving to be an ambassador for a peace in the region. It is already been established in this short adventure that who is an aggressor and who is a restrainer. I personally consider Pakistan having an upper hand on india in every milestones in this conflict. Hats off to civil and military leaders. Pakistan Zindabad

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## maximuswarrior

HRK said:


> View attachment 542972
> 
> 
> Detail of the contract
> View attachment 542977
> 
> http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...raytheon-wins-$200m-for-amraam-(dec.-23).html or
> Web Archive link
> https://web.archive.org/save/http:/...raytheon-wins-$200m-for-amraam-(dec.-23).html
> 
> @Horus , @The Eagle If possible plz post these images to twitter page



That is a knock out punch in his face.


----------



## Moon

SorryNotSorry said:


> Read where the highlighted text is. The bottom para.
> I’m not gonna type it up.


So, a Pakistani missile was found in India.
Therefore we did shoot something and by the looks of it, it hit. 
Congratulations you just proved PAFs claim of two jets shot down.

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## Talon

Windjammer said:


> Holy Smoke , was that the surprise,


Yeap and there's more stuff as well,you have your sources so try to get more info from them as I cant and not allowed to share the info that wasn't released for general public.

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## YeBeWarned

arbit said:


> Why would I feel humiliated? If I m wrong will be happy to be corrected.
> However our airforce has confirmed a F-16 was downed. AIM debris has also been recovered and has been documented as proof. So this busts the first lie of your igsr (whatever) that F-16 weren't even used.
> LO fuckin L
> 
> So F-16 WERE used. AIM was fired. Ask your yahoos whey they lied even about the use of F 16.
> 
> Hows your cousin btw?
> Will talk later once our man is back. Imran Khan is not that big an idiot after all.



You recover part of AIM missile which was used to shoot your Mig , you can keep it as war trophy . Wake us up when you have any wreckage from F-16 itself .

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## maximuswarrior

AsianUnion said:


> *Ex-IAF Cheif Confirms 2 Migs down, 3 Pilots Killed of Indian Airforce*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian media & Modi govt will never tell the truth to 1.2 Billion Indians



LOL shame on all the Indians and others that were questioning the episode. This is such a huge smack in their faces.

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## SorryNotSorry

Mr.Meap said:


> So, a Pakistani missile was found in India.
> Therefore we did shoot something and by the looks of it, it hit.
> Congratulations you just proved PAFs claim of two jets shot down.


I’m Not proving anything, not insinuating anything. 
Posting information that seems valid and relevant.


----------



## SHAH820

blackuday said:


>


as I told you before jf-17 can be equip with AIM-120

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## maximuswarrior

SorryNotSorry said:


> I’m Not proving anything, not insinuating anything.
> Posting information that seems valid and relevant.



You should be sorry now.

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## Maxpane

Hodor said:


> Yeap and there's more stuff as well,you have your sources so try to get more info from them as I cant and not allowed to share the info that wasn't released for general public.


sir hamare f 16 thk hsin na?


----------



## LegitimateIdiot

LMAO Indian media trying to twist the Story [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. No F16 was shotdown

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## Gorgin Khan

arbit said:


> Why would I feel humiliated? If I m wrong will be happy to be corrected.
> However our airforce has confirmed a F-16 was downed. AIM debris has also been recovered and has been documented as proof. So this busts the first lie of your igsr (whatever) that F-16 weren't even used.
> LO fuckin L
> 
> So F-16 WERE used. AIM was fired. Ask your yahoos whey they lied even about the use of F 16.
> 
> Hows your cousin btw?
> Will talk later once our man is back. Imran Khan is not that big an idiot after all.


 


Vibrio said:


> So, Wg Cdr Shahzaz ud Din of 19 Sqn 'Sherdils' son of Air Marshal Waseem ud Din Dy CoAS (Ops) is not the officer KIA?
> 
> Just got this one from somewhere. Unverified. So asking straight.



No , F16s were not used. The piece of metal your media is showing were sold to taiwan not pakistan. If you are claiming that its ours . To beta us missile nay udhar khala g say mulaqat kay liye nahi jana tha. Your air chief said that pakistan shot one aircraft which fell in IOK. But what about the second Mig-21 which fell in pakistan??. ( There is hell load of evidence available). So either you accept the two kills (In which case we accept that it was fired from F16) which you will not, or either you can give up on that the piece of AMRAAM with which you fooled your media , that its not a pakistani missile. Its a very Big dilemma for you guys. In either case its a win win situation for us.

And if an F-16 is shot down , give us some proof that you have shot down rather than coming up with pieces of metal.

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## SQ8

Vibrio said:


> So, Wg Cdr Shahzaz ud Din of 19 Sqn 'Sherdils' son of Air Marshal Waseem ud Din Dy CoAS (Ops) is not the officer KIA?
> 
> Just got this one from somewhere. Unverified. So asking straight.


Nope.
1. If we assume he was, it cannot be from 19th sq since the aircraft they operate is not capable of using Aim-120s.

2. The AVM in question is no longer on that post for almost 5 years now

3. None of his sons are in the airforce

4. No son is named “Shahzaz” or even has the letter S or a name nor do those names even RHYME with shahzaz or az or so on.

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## PurpleButcher

Three questions I would like seniors to answer

Does the AIM-120 missile shown belong to Pakistan or Taiwan?
If Pakistan then
Is the JF17 capable of launching AIM-120 missiles? 
If not
F-16 being the only aircraft capable of launching AIM-120 missiles, why did DG ISPR yesterday denied their role in the operation?

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## vizier

it became a habit of india to use threats with unfounded accusations after any attack over them but this one is new. They didnt even wait to pass the info-docs for Pak investigation.

Pakistan is showing restraint and so far doing very good by doing everything to deescalate the situation while protecting itself and demanding information for an objective impartial investigation instead of blatant accusations and will continue to do so.

İndia since couldnt enter Pak airspace would later try israeli style flying low inside its own airspace and launching stand off weapons. You would need at least more Buk/spada type of systems to counter-intercept these missiles in border regions. Also airborne radars should be kept above continiously for early warning.

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## Talon

Maxpane said:


> sir hamare f 16 thk hsin na?


Yes boss no damage to our any assets.

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## ZAC1

They said shotdown f-16 falled in lam valley ..in azad kashmir...hun kitaon saman lab gya


maximuswarrior said:


> You should be sorry now.


----------



## maximuswarrior

arbit said:


> Agreed. We will keep it as trophy. Just one question.
> 
> Why did your ISPR lied about no F 16 being used in the raid.



Where is the F-16 wreckage? Where are the 200-300 bodies that you counted in a hurry?

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## Gorgin Khan

arbit said:


> Agreed. We will keep it as trophy. Just one question.
> 
> Why did your ISPR lied about no F 16 being used in the raid.



@arbit Because we have your second pilot (Either dead or alive). Which modi is not claiming .

We know very well what we have. You will get what you claim.

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## YeBeWarned

arbit said:


> Agreed. We will keep it as trophy. Just one question.
> 
> Why did your ISPR lied about no F 16 being used in the raid.


They don't want to tell that American weapons are used to shoot Indian fighters so Indian lobby and pro Indian senators will stop future sales to Pakistan.

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## sohail.ishaque

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Could you share?







here is the conversation of the Pilot officer that destroyed their jet. Listen carefully, what he is saying. We went in their area and gave them some fking surprises.... we'll never admit it officially but we did crossed the line and hit them hard.

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## CHACHA"G"

Oscar said:


> It should NEVER have been released. It was very irresponsible of the senior.


Can we court marshal both...….. Especially that fukin senior ….. If the tap is true .. ..


----------



## Hellfire

Oscar said:


> Nope.
> 1. If we assume he was, it cannot be from 19th sq since the aircraft they operate is not capable of using Aim-120s.
> 
> 2. The AVM in question is no longer on that post for almost 5 years now
> 
> 3. None of his sons are in the airforce
> 
> 4. No son is named “Shahzaz” or even has the letter S or a name nor do those names even RHYME with shahzaz or az or so on.




Thanks for the info.

I do ask unverified information to be verified from multiple sources.


----------



## arbit

SHAH820 said:


> as I told you before jf-17 can be equip with AIM-120



so you mean America had given the go ahead to integrate this missile on your JF-17 made with the help of china, with Chinese avionics and radar and Russian engine. 

Yeah sure why not. Totally legit.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

nahmed71 said:


> why....uncle sam....say it was uncle sam who encouraged India to take action in first place .....we responded ...they crossed LOC so we did.


In which world are you living ? haven't you heard their stance. They say what India want them to say and right now *they are saying that India took action against terrorist*. so with this statement it is clear that they are giving Green signal to Indian attack even in Pakistan is not given any such liberty.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

PurpleButcher said:


> Three questions I would like seniors to answer
> 
> Does the AIM-120 missile shown belong to Pakistan or Taiwan?
> If Pakistan then
> Is the JF17 capable of launching AIM-120 missiles?
> If not
> F-16 being the only aircraft capable of launching AIM-120 missiles, why did DG ISPR yesterday denied their role in the operation?



Because of American pressure that F-16 not to be use aggressively against India or else their call centers will boycott.

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## arbit

Starlord said:


> They don't want to tell that American weapons are used to shoot Indian fighters so Indian lobby and pro Indian senators will stop future sales to Pakistan.



Ofcourse! 

Too bad their well thought out plan couldn't work out. I believe ya


----------



## sohail.ishaque

Sugarcane said:


> Point?


They are saying that wo andar aa kai tunnn kai chalay gaye


----------



## arbit

Gorgin Khan said:


> @arbit Because we have your second pilot (Either dead or alive). Which modi is not claiming .
> 
> We know very well what we have. You will get what you claim.



We will find out then. Won't we? You can't substantiate this and I can't verify this. 

If what you say turns out to be true, I will give credit where's due. Remind me of this post.


----------



## Indus Pakistan

For the Pakistani's please note a few things. At end of the day much of what is being played out is propaganda and the perception out there in the world. Both countries will not go down the path of war as that will lead to nuclear holocaust. So all we are left with is the posturning which we saw over the last few days. What matters is hard facts. Rest is all all hot air. Rest of the world is not going to sit there and have a court hearing lasting days revieving forensic evidence. Hard facts is all that matter. Rest is hot air. So where do we stand?


India threatened and postured to teach Pakistan a lesson.
India then carried out a ingress in Pak airspace which led to 1.4 billion Indian's having collective climax.
Pakistan then just as promised retaliated.
One Indian fighter was shot down with images across the internet
One Indian pilot crashed in Pakistan and was about to get lynched by angry civilians
Indian pilot was saved by Pak Army
Right now he is under arrest in care of Pakistan and recieving tiolet training.
One Indian air asset crashed in IOK killing 5 aircrew.
Picture says thousand words.







Just look at these hard facts. If you read international media this is what is being shown. Instead of Pakistan being punished all you see in the international media is India slapped and chastised by Pakistan with the videos of captured Indian pilot graphically bring home that point.

So guys. We won the propaganda war. In front of the world instead of Pakistan being bent over you see a Indian pilot conveying the #Indiagetslapped. This is all that matters. I think this matter now is de-escalating and Pakistan will walk away with a grin on it's face. Nobody can say Pakistan was humbled. Instead the country that was flexing it's muscles has been bent over. Modi stands publicly raped.

Instead of Indiuan military coming back as victors who taught Pakistan a lesson tomorrow you will see a defeated, broken pilot coming back. This about sums it up.

I think now there will be real pressure on India and Pakistan to sort out Kashmir. And Kashmiri's will have been emboldened seeing the wrecks of Indian aircraft.

Guys _"we won this round"_

Nothing sums this better then this BBC report. Instead of headlines being "Pakistan punished" the headline reads - this says it all who is on top.



*Pakistan 'to free Indian pilot on Friday'*


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47399126




RPK said:


> You opened your air traffic? Lol go and see flight radar24. Except Pakistanis everyone is traveling


Pakistan is a smaller country. Most of our major airports, major urban hubs, major air traffic generating areas are within 100 miles of the LOC. This includes Islamabad Airport, Lahore Airport, Peshawar Airport.

Whereas all of India is distant and your major hubs are half a thousand or even thousand miles distant. That explains the closure.

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## YeBeWarned

arbit said:


> Ofcourse!
> 
> Too bad their well thought out plan couldn't work out. I believe ya


It did actually, PAF setup trap by targeting 6 places in IoK , they were chased by iaf as expected , and later shot down two enemy aircraft without a lose . If this is plan not working out than I don't know what is .

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## arbit

maximuswarrior said:


> Where is the F-16 wreckage? Where are the 200-300 bodies that you counted in a hurry?



Dogfight happened in p-o-k. Both crashed happened in territory under your control. The only thing we have is AIM debris to debunk your lie that F-16 weren't even used. 

Air strikes happened on the basis of humint. Hence its a ball park figure. It was a pretty big establishment after all and 2- 4 structures were hit. 

By the way you have a track record of not even accepting your dead. Remember Kargil? so nothing surprising here.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

ptldM3 said:


> Don't be ridiculous, the wreckage was a Mig-21, essentially equipped with Israeli F-16 avionics, the other aircraft was an Mi-17 in which the circumstances of the crash is unknown. Everything else regarding SU-30s and Mig-29s is unsubstantiated gossip and baseless rumors.


Yeah baseless rumors and the videos were made in premiere pro and the pics were photoshoped and the the pilot was our own pilot who was under makeup and the pilots that are dead were never ever borned in the first place.


----------



## Indus Pakistan



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## Talon

*As us being civilians it doesn't concern us which aircrafts were used,which sqn was involved or similar stuff.

What concerns us is whether military did their job or not and everyone knows they did.Military released the information which it thought suitable enough to be released.What they didn't release wasn't meant for us to know.

I know everyone here is military enthusiast and wants to know stuff LIKE ME but still its my humble request to everyone stop trying to know the stuff that doesn't concerns you at least relating to this event. What concerns us is forces did the job and did not lose any aircraft.*

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## RPK

Indus Pakistan said:


> Pakistan is a smaller country. Most of our major airports, major urban hubs, major air traffic generating areas are within 100 miles of the LOC. This includes Islamabad Airport, Lahore Airport, Peshawar Airport.
> 
> Whereas all of India is distant and your major hubs are half a thousand or even thousand miles distant. That explains the closure.



India opened all its airports including near loc yesterday itself


----------



## Windjammer

blackuday said:


>


This is where the Indian are good at.....playing with people's minds through the slavish media.
No questions asked, no need to give any answers.....blind leading blind.
Ok it's a part of an AMRAAM missile which brought down the Indian fighter jet, does that automatically translates to that PAF lost an F-16......far from it......your war lords are merely diverting attention from the whipping they received at the hands of the PAF.....and also covering up much.....PAF personal are having a good laugh at the staged drama.

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## arbit

Starlord said:


> It did actually, PAF setup trap by targeting 6 places in IoK , they were chased by iaf as expected , and later shot down two enemy aircraft without a lose . If this is plan not working out than I don't know what is .



The trap thing is accepted. Smart move actually. You lost one jet though, shot down by a Mig 21. The shot out jet was F-16. The 'use' of which at least was established recently. which your PAF has denied so vehemently until recently. 
Again I reiterate missiles cannot be integrated on a jet of your choice unless the OEM helps out and US agreeing to share codes to integrate that missile on a jet with Chinese avionics, radar etc are slim, to put it mildly. 

So for fanbois claiming it was a JF-17 shooting AIM. shhh them

If air war breaks out then be sure of one thing, this smart move won't work twice and all your planes will have to do actual dogfights for establishing air supremacy. There won't be any place to turn back to.



Windjammer said:


> This is where the Indian are good at.....playing with people's minds through the slavish media.
> No questions asked, no need to give any answers.....blind leading blind.
> Ok it's a part of an AMRAAM missile which brought down the Indian fighter jet, does that automatically translates to that PAF lost an F-16......far from it......your war lords are merely diverting attention from the whipping they received at the hands of the PAF.....and also covering up much.....PAF personal are having a good laugh at the staged drama.



Use of F-16 has been established. Your PAF denied the use of F-16 vehemently until now. Piece the dots together. 

Congenital liars you guys are

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## Windjammer

Vibrio said:


> So, Wg Cdr Shahzaz ud Din of 19 Sqn 'Sherdils' son of Air Marshal Waseem ud Din Dy CoAS (Ops) is not the officer KIA?
> 
> Just got this one from somewhere. Unverified. So asking straight.


Simply AM Wasim doesn't have a son in the PAF.....You are again being taken for a ride by your Military and media.


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## Maxpane

Hodor said:


> Yes boss no damage to our any assets.


thank you sir


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## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> The trap thing is accepted. Smart move actually. You lost one jet though, shot down by a Mig 21. The shot out jet was F-16. The 'use' of which at least was established recently. which your PAF has denied so vehemently until recently.
> Again I reiterate missiles cannot be integrated on a jet of your choice unless the OEM helps out and US agreeing to share codes to integrate that missile on a jet with Chinese avionics, radar etc are slim, to put it mildly.
> 
> So for fanbois claiming it was a JF-17 shooting AIM. shhh them
> 
> If air war breaks out then be sure of one thing, this smart move won't work twice and all your planes will have to do actual dogfights for establishing air supremacy. There won't be any place to turn back to.


Blunted repeated lies mesns that even tge pro indian media doesnt think India as credibyhence this supposedly air kill we never be recorded in history outside india

Even NYT says india is lying

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## YeBeWarned

arbit said:


> The trap thing is accepted. Smart move actually. You lost one jet though, shot down by a Mig 21. The shot out jet was F-16. The 'use' of which at least was established recently. which your PAF has denied so vehemently until recently.
> Again I reiterate missiles cannot be integrated on a jet of your choice unless the OEM helps out and US agreeing to share codes to integrate that missile on a jet with Chinese avionics, radar etc are slim, to put it mildly.
> 
> So for fanbois claiming it was a JF-17 shooting AIM. shhh them
> 
> If air war breaks out then be sure of one thing, this smart move won't work twice and all your planes will have to do actual dogfights for establishing air supremacy. There won't be any place to turn back to.


Bring me the evidence of this claim of shot f-16 ? One single shred of evidence .. there are many international and local independent journalist than can investigate .. they are free to do so until than accept that your airforce been outplayed

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## ziaulislam

This however does mean the PAF F16 fired BVR now when were they used during multiple engagements we have is not known


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## mshan44

Best tweet of the day big slap to indian anchor 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101152332518178816

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## SQ8

Vibrio said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I do ask unverified information to be verified from multiple sources.


This fog of war exists due to our wish to avoid exposure to the use of F-16s since even if used defensively (which is our right to use them as we wish); there is a high probability that your side’s diplomacy and lobbying will whine about it to the manufacturing country.

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## Windjammer

arbit said:


> Use of F-16 has been established. Your PAF denied the use of F-16 vehemently until now. Piece the dots together.
> 
> Congenital liars you guys are


No body said F-16 were used in the operation across the LOC.
It's in Indian nature to cook up stories to divert attention and soften the jaw shattering blow.
As for lying, wonder who until today was admitting the loss of just one MiG-21.....and even that through a malfunction.....lets say you have only heard just 30% of the story.
What do you say @Hodor @Oscar

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## SQ8

CHACHA"G" said:


> Can we court marshal both...….. Especially that fukin senior ….. If the tap is true .. ..


No fault of the young man taking the call.
The senior should have known better, much better.

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## SHAH820

arbit said:


> so you mean America had given the go ahead to integrate this missile on your JF-17 made with the help of china, with Chinese avionics and radar and Russian engine.
> 
> Yeah sure why not. Totally legit.


you really telling me a missile from pakistan hit a jet(which we claim but denied by you) and showing it wreckage to us. what is this logic 

saab gripen can be equip with AIM-120 where neither its an US made plane or have an US made engine or radar


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## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> No body said F-16 were used in the operation across the LOC.
> It's in Indian nature to cook up stories to divert attention and soften the jaw shattering blow.
> As for lying, wonder who until today was admitting the loss of just one MiG-21.....and even that through a malfunction.....lets say you have only heard just 30% of the story.
> What do you say @Hodor @Oscar


Please do not feel the repetitive delusional trolls, today their insides are burning up.

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## Trailer23

Listen to this B.S. from some IAF person when a Reporter asked about their PoW being returned back...

He say's, "...once we have him back - once he is handed over to us, we will then make further any comments."

Check Timecode: *18:30*


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## arbit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101091037374832640

Lolwa

Sometimes this guy talks sense


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

blackuday said:


>


poora jahaz dhekna hai tho yahan aajao

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## CHACHA"G"

Oscar said:


> No fault of the young man taking the call.
> The senior should have known better, much better.


Agree ,,,,,,, I a sorry to say but I want PAF to Fuk that senior , hard...……… harder …………… gangbang time hard.

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## arbit

Windjammer said:


> No body said F-16 were used in the operation across the LOC.
> [/USER]



My point exactly. You guys are not admitting that F-16 were used, but an AIM WAS fired. It can only be fired by F-16. So the lie gets caught. 
And please don't tell me you integrated the AIM on a jet with chinese avionics and radar! 

PAF knows the truth now. Only their morale matters. Yahoos on the net can do all the chest thumping they want. The objective has been achieved.


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## sohail.ishaque

arbit said:


> Ofcourse!
> 
> Too bad their well thought out plan couldn't work out. I believe ya


but you are not looking at the bigger picture. What was our AIM120 doing behind the border ? well you guys will start believing that there were 3 jets downed. The one that was destroyed by this AIM120 is never going to be get claimed by Pak as it was on the other side of the border. We can't go on media saying that we have hit their jet by crossing the line. Your bf(USA) won't be happy about that so we just claim what we can without any getting any eyebros raised.


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## Imran Khan

*if abhi nandan the looser is hero then what we call this man whom shot him down and defeated him in sky ?*

*




*

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## z9-ec

arbit said:


> My point exactly. You guys are not admitting that F-16 were used, but an AIM WAS fired. It can only be fired by F-16. So the lie gets caught.
> And please don't tell me you integrated the AIM on a jet with chinese avionics and radar!
> 
> PAF knows the truth now. Only their morale matters. Yahoos on the net can do all the chest thumping they want. The objective has been achieved.




WHAT LIE? Maybe we fired the AIM-120C5 which has a range of *120 KM *from within PAKISTAN. The operation inside INDIA was conducted by JF-17 Thunder as frontline and F-16 as secondary line of defence.


JUST digest the fact we hit you guys in your own backyard and you couldn't do $SH%* about it.

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## Sine Nomine

Oscar said:


> No fault of the young man taking the call.
> The senior should have known better, much better.


Our forces are in dire need of comprehensive lesson on usage of social media and cell phones.


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## Maxpane

Imran Khan said:


> *if abhi nandan the looser is hero then what we call this man whom shot him down and defeated him in sky ?*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


ultra legend Sir


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## Fieldmarshal

Another Bollywood Propaganda Busted

The remains of a AIM-120C5 AMRAAM Serial Number: FA8675-05-C-0070 was sold to Taiwanese Air Force n not to Pakistan Air Force. We highly recommend that R&AW and the rest of the Indian military should hire some one who can Google as consultant so they don't get caught so damn blatantly every time.

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## waz

Yes no F-16 was used to down the Mig craft....

Read between the lines folks

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## Sine Nomine

Imran Khan said:


> *if abhi nandan the looser is hero then what we call this man whom shot him down and defeated him in sky ?*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


He didn't shot anything,he was on leave.IAF fighter did forgot, the way back home and when he came down asking for way back home,you guys caught him did all this drama

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## arbit

z9-ec said:


> Maybe we fired the AIM-120C5 which has a range of *120 KM *from within PAKISTAN.



something tells me you are not a pilot. Are you?


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## Imran Khan

waz said:


> Yes no F-16 was used to down the Mig craft....
> 
> Read between the lines folks


no no no pleagggggggg IAF said it so  they have 1 foot long evidence too


----------



## Great Janjua

soundHound said:


> This is getting hilarious now first you say don't trust indian media, then you say you got info from indian media, can we stick to one thing? and using what you shot a chopper 200km far? a ballistic missile?


The chopper came down in budgam which is possibly like 70km from the loc. It is possible that it was shot down the locals stated the following whilst giving a interview to media "We heard two loud bangs after which we saw the helicopter was on fire and crashed"


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## Nefarious

Imran Khan said:


> *if abhi nandan the looser is hero then what we call this man whom shot him down and defeated him in sky ?*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



In India if you take beating you a hero?


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## arbit

The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101141807054807040


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## Maxpane

package consist on jf 17 and mirrages but we have evidence of bvr amraam 120 wreckage


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## arbit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101144306637656065
The missiles were indeed purchased by Pakistan. So another propaganda busted


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## Windjammer

arbit said:


> My point exactly. You guys are not admitting that F-16 were used, but an AIM WAS fired. It can only be fired by F-16. So the lie gets caught.
> And please don't tell me you integrated the AIM on a jet with chinese avionics and radar!
> 
> PAF knows the truth now. Only their morale matters. Yahoos on the net can do all the chest thumping they want. The objective has been achieved.


Read again slowly what i said, F-16s weren't used across the LOC, however they have a duty to fly all over Pakistan and defend against any intrusion.

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## Imran Khan

arbit said:


> The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101141807054807040


and raghu said it who is raghu PAF media wing chief or ISPR officer ? you guys just wishing too much



Windjammer said:


> Read again slowly what i said, F-16s weren't used across the LOC, however they have a duty to fly all over Pakistan and defend against any intrusion.


bhai we are wasting time with indian trolls how long can we . see up one guys bring amraam contract its news for him that we use AIM-120 amraam . DAFA KARO INKO AB THAK CHUKY


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## soundHound

Great Janjua said:


> The chopper came down in budgam which is possibly like 70km from the loc. It is possible that it was shot down the locals stated the following whilst giving a interview to media "We heard two loud bangs after which we saw the helicopter was on fire and crashed"



Incursions happened near Rajouri and Nowshera, that's over 200km from Budgam, again please don't quote Indian media as proof when you don't accept rest of it.

There is a video from Azad Kashmir going hot In youtube where local captured this pursuit, you can clearly hear them saying 1 pilot ejected(Mig21) and then moments later 2 more pilots ejected(f16), where this other 2 pilots are? This simply relates to what ispr said earlier 3 pilots, 1 was IAF and 2 we're of PAF which when upon realising made them change there stament to 1 pilot.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

arbit said:


> Your PAF denied the use of F-16 vehemently until now.


Your government initially even denied the loss of a single pilot or aircraft, it was only after the images of the captured pilot and downed aircraft were circulated by Pakistan that one loss was accepted.

Add onto that the blatant lies about 'destroying a terrorist camp in Balakot', when there were reporters and sources on the ground within hours reporting on almost no damage and just a few craters in empty space, and it's obvious who the congenital liars are.

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## Windjammer

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101144306637656065
> The missiles were indeed purchased by Pakistan. So another propaganda busted


Lol there you go again, just quoting Indian sources who play with your minds.
As for your big discovery about those missiles being in PAF inventory....here a picture is equal to a thousand words.

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## arbit

Windjammer said:


> Read again slowly what i said, F-16s weren't used across the LOC, however they have a duty to fly all over Pakistan and defend against any intrusion.



BC what the eff. F-16 were flying in your territory but somehow a missile used by them was recovered in Indian custody and that's fine. Is that what you are telling me?
Either we fabricated the metal piece or your folks are lying through the teeth. No other option.


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## Indus Pakistan

arbit said:


> The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations).


Where is your source instead of some Gangoo twitter account?


----------



## NA71

soundHound said:


> Incursions happened near Rajouri and Nowshera, that's over 200km from Budgam, again please don't quote Indian media as proof when you don't accept rest of it.
> 
> There is a video from Azad Kashmir going hot In youtube where local captured this pursuit, you can clearly hear them saying 1 pilot ejected(Mig21) and then moments later 2 more pilots ejected(f16), where this other 2 pilots are? This simply relates to what ispr said earlier 3 pilots, 1 was IAF and 2 we're of PAF which when upon realising made them change there stament to 1 pilot.


OK i accept it....locals also saying 100s plus casualties by PAF ground attack on military targets.....now this would labled as not true


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## arbit

Imran Khan said:


> and raghu said it who is raghu PAF media wing chief or ISPR officer ? you guys just wishing too much
> 
> 
> bhai we are wasting time with indian trolls how long can we . see up one guys bring amraam contract its news for him that we use AIM-120 amraam . DAFA KARO INKO AB THAK CHUKY



The news in in Pakistani media. PDF choro thoda bahar niklo. Hawa khao. Thakan utar jaegi.




AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Your government initially even denied the loss of a single pilot or aircraft, it was only after the images of the captured pilot and downed aircraft were circulated by Pakistan that one loss was accepted.



Talking thru your hat? Indian govt never denied the loss of pilot. Show me one proof


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

arbit said:


> The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101141807054807040


Both Oscar and Windjammer have debunked that claim. The Air Marshal has no sons in the PAF.


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## NA71

arbit said:


> BC what the eff. F-16 were flying in your territory but somehow a missile used by them was recovered in Indian custody and that's fine. Is that what you are telling me?
> Either we fabricated the metal piece or your folks are lying through the teeth. No other option.


now this will also be answered ....This piece your IAF showed on TV is actually traveled from your close friend country by special flight ...made it look like a consumed part of weapon....need more clue?


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Just to get picture of both countries. Modi's India which has been slapped silly has population of nearly 1.4 billion. This is indeed a face off between David and Goliath. Just one Indian state [it has 29] Utter Pradesh has same population of 200 million as Pakistan. People digest this.


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## Imran Khan

arbit said:


> The news in in Pakistani media. PDF choro thoda bahar niklo. Hawa khao. Thakan utar jaegi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talking thru your hat? Indian govt never denied the loss of pilot. Show me one proof


should our gov deny every day 10000 allegations by indian media and politicians and military ? this mean we need to create a department of allegations control in our gov whom day night deny indian lies ?.

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## arbit

Indus Pakistan said:


> Where is your source instead of some Gangoo twitter account?



Only posting information that is flying thru. Rest assured he didn't invent or imagine the names or other details. He probably is not too smart for that


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## Windjammer

arbit said:


> BC what the eff. F-16 were flying in your territory but somehow a missile used by them was recovered in Indian custody and that's fine. Is that what you are telling me?
> Either we fabricated the metal piece or your folks are lying through the teeth. No other option.


Keep guessing, for us job done good an proper without a scratch.
Your government is already crying about some Geneva convention, now you can cry to US, LM or whoever. 
PAF F-16 inventory is completely intact and buzzing the night sky as we speak.


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## Imran Khan

arbit said:


> BC what the eff. F-16 were flying in your territory but somehow a missile used by them was recovered in Indian custody and that's fine. Is that what you are telling me?
> Either we fabricated the metal piece or your folks are lying through the teeth. No other option.


a peace of aim-120 (if its real ) we can not say its piece of aim-120 is nto space tech that a country can not get it . and peace of amraam can not be said that the fighter jet whom fired it is already lost . its nothing a peace of junk nothing more . if you see 1000s of pieces fall down from mig-21 over large area and 100s of pics and dozens videos are all over social media . can we claim we shot down 10 migs ?


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## sohail.ishaque

arbit said:


> BC what the eff. F-16 were flying in your territory but somehow a missile used by them was recovered in Indian custody and that's fine. Is that what you are telling me?
> Either we fabricated the metal piece or your folks are lying through the teeth. No other option.


oye chootiye.. if you know what is the purpose of AIM120 then you shoudn't be showing it to the world. If it is a missile from our Jet then it means one thing and one thing only that we engaged your jet behind the line. And that shape of that AIM means it did find its target. So we are saying that hum nai inko mara hai lakin line cross ker kai nahi and you guys are trying to prove kai nahi, ye hamain ghar mei aa kai bi maar kai gaye hain, ye dekhain inka missile para howa hai hamari territory mei

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## Great Janjua

soundHound said:


> Incursions happened near Rajouri and Nowshera, that's over 200km from Budgam, again please don't quote Indian media as proof when you don't accept rest of it.
> 
> There is a video from Azad Kashmir going hot In youtube where local captured this pursuit, you can clearly hear them saying 1 pilot ejected(Mig21) and then moments later 2 more pilots ejected(f16), where this other 2 pilots are? This simply relates to what ispr said earlier 3 pilots, 1 was IAF and 2 we're of PAF which when upon realising made them change there stament to 1 pilot.


Incursions happened along the bhimber,Poonch,Naushera,Azmatabad areas now from budgam too Poonch is only 56 km,Guess what that's well within the range off our missiles so I am sure the mi-17 was pretty much guaranteed to have been shot down by our forces. Moving on too the f-16 debate well you have apparently found our f-16 missile 10km inside IOK that can only mean we targeted another jet that fell inside IOK now the locals pretty much saw two fighter jets being downed one which fell inside AJK and the other the locals describe tried too run for IOK and was seen totally on fire rushing down from the heavens with pilots both ejecting on IOK side. Now India claims that they downed our jet inside AJK well guess what according to locals two jets were seen on fire one which fell inside AJK the other in IOK and this is all eye witness. Now we all know what happened to the wreckage that fell inside AJK.But we don't know what happened to the one that fell in IOK


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

He's been given a break to recover from his mental breakdown from the shock of the news over the last few days.

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## sohail.ishaque

soundHound said:


> Incursions happened near Rajouri and Nowshera, that's over 200km from Budgam, again please don't quote Indian media as proof when you don't accept rest of it.
> 
> There is a video from Azad Kashmir going hot In youtube where local captured this pursuit, you can clearly hear them saying 1 pilot ejected(Mig21) and then moments later 2 more pilots ejected(f16), where this other 2 pilots are? This simply relates to what ispr said earlier 3 pilots, 1 was IAF and 2 we're of PAF which when upon realising made them change there stament to 1 pilot.


no actually we only were willing to give back 1. So that is why we changed the stance. The rest of your pilots will now rot in our jails and will get daily nashta in Lahore


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## Imran Khan

arbit said:


> Sir,
> 
> what is your opinion of loss of lives on the peaks of Kargil denied by your army till the bitter end. Which was finally acknowledged by your great leader Musharraf


this is grave allegation repeated by indians again and again. they were kashmiri fighter not pak army . in real world india refuse to take back its own pilot three times then we handed over to red cross . its the hate and blind hate feeded by media and others to you guys . let me tell you how pak army treat their shaheeds
1- honorable military buried of solder
2- pensions and fund for his family
3- a job for his relative
4- a sign board with his picture on the street of his home and change street name on shaheed
5- life time welfare for family from army welfare fund

BTW kargil shaheeds list is already online you can see. we took back dead bodies of our solder but . india was imposing on us kashmiri fighters dead bodies so blame us terror which we refused to take its very simple

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## Myth_buster_1

BATMAN said:


> This thread should be put to trash... because new breaking is IAF pilot left showing his middle finger to Pakistan's military might and public.



WAR is not a game and Pakistan must do anything possible to avoid war and returning a pilot back will show to the entire world that Pakistan is a peaceful nation while India is a warmongering nation! However if PAK is attacked then all hell will break lose and it will be end of the world because of nuclear fallout! Some time you have to think with your head and not ego.


----------



## SQ8

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Our forces are in dire need of comprehensive lesson on usage of social media and cell phones.


The young man is not at fault- he answered in trust and that too a senior who I am assumed was ex-PAF. 
He still did not reveal anything what is not already understood.

It is the fault of the person recording the call.

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## NA71

Media in Pakistan refuting Modi's reaction on release of IAF pilot....PM now reverse his decision....news are coming modi ji has rejected to take IK call......huhhhh attitude. He is upto his earlier plan of massive retaliation


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Myth_buster_1 said:


> WAR is not a game and Pakistan must do anything possible to avoid war and returning a pilot back will show to the entire world that Pakistan is a peaceful nation while India is a warmongering nation! However if PAK is attacked then all hell will break lose and it will be end of the world because of nuclear fallout! Some time you have to think with your head and not ego.


I swear, some Pakistanis are having a mental breakdown over the IAF pilot being returned that is almost as bad as the mental breakdown being suffered by the Indians over their jets being shot down and strikes being conducted in IOK and still no evidence of anything other than trees being hit in the Indian 'surgical strikes'.

These Pakistanis have instantly forgotten how Imran Khan gave the Pakistani military the latitude to respond as necessary, and how the PAF responded with valor and success.

Sara din 'pilot kyoon release kiya' ka maatam laga hua hai.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## ptldM3

sohail.ishaque said:


> Yeah baseless rumors and the videos were made in premiere pro and the pics were photoshoped and the the pilot was our own pilot who was under makeup and the pilots that are dead were never ever borned in the first place.






Yea I'm sure an SU-30 was shot down, that is why there is zero evidence of wreckage or a pilots, but please continue pandering conspiracies while telling me my statements are baseless.


----------



## SQ8

PurpleButcher said:


> Three questions I would like seniors to answer
> 
> Does the AIM-120 missile shown belong to Pakistan or Taiwan?
> If Pakistan then
> Is the JF17 capable of launching AIM-120 missiles?
> If not
> F-16 being the only aircraft capable of launching AIM-120 missiles, why did DG ISPR yesterday denied their role in the operation?


1. F-16 only airplane capable of using it
2. DG Ispr is correct, NO F-16 was used in offensive operation; it does not mean F-16 were not patrolling defensively and covering offensive force.

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## Myth_buster_1

soundHound said:


> Incursions happened near Rajouri and Nowshera, that's over 200km from Budgam, again please don't quote Indian media as proof when you don't accept rest of it.
> 
> There is a video from Azad Kashmir going hot In youtube where local captured this pursuit, you can clearly hear them saying 1 pilot ejected(Mig21) and then moments later 2 more pilots ejected(f16), where this other 2 pilots are? This simply relates to what ispr said earlier 3 pilots, 1 was IAF and 2 we're of PAF which when upon realising made them change there stament to 1 pilot.



And all locals around paf f-16 wreckage were killed to hide evidence

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## ghazi768

blackuday said:


>


What a site of pity!
IAF officers carrying a fired AIM-120 to some how rescue their honour, what a shame!

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## Trailer23

ghazi768 said:


> What a site of pity!
> IAF officers carrying a fired AIM-120 to some how rescue their honour, what a shame!


Bro, you know the funny bit...

They're holding a piece of a missile as if its something they claimed. They found it lying around.

We have an entire jet, and its f#ckin' pilot.

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## BATMAN

Myth_buster_1 said:


> WAR is not a game and Pakistan must do anything possible to avoid war and returning a pilot back will show to the entire world that Pakistan is a peaceful nation while India is a warmongering nation! However if PAK is attacked then all hell will break lose and it will be end of the world because of nuclear fallout! Some time you have to think with your head and not ego.


In which world do you live...
As i said before, it all depends on the man incharge.
Musharraf believed in giving befitting reply, commanding peace.
Apparently Imran Khan believe in playing nice in good faith, which in my opinion is madness.
War is no more a worry, even Indian army have realized that they CAN'T fight war... if we engage Indiands preemptively, even their public will know and only this will bring ever lasting peace.
Indians can only play cheap games out side the war theater and their supporter number 1 is US whom Imran Khan was busy helping out. Which clearly reflect Imran Khan is taking decisions of national security in VERY undemocratic fashion.


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## The Accountant

PurpleButcher said:


> Three questions I would like seniors to answer
> 
> Does the AIM-120 missile shown belong to Pakistan or Taiwan?
> If Pakistan then
> Is the JF17 capable of launching AIM-120 missiles?
> If not
> F-16 being the only aircraft capable of launching AIM-120 missiles, why did DG ISPR yesterday denied their role in the operation?



Jf17 cant shoot aim 120

F16 might or might not be used ... dg ispr did not disclosed f16 due to diplomatic reasons ...

Aim 120 apparently belongs to taiwan but i m not sure about this

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ghazi768 said:


> What a site of pity!
> IAF officers carrying a fired AIM-120 to some how rescue their honour, what a shame!


Can you imagine the hysteria if they had an actual PAF pilot and aircraft to display, given the hysteria over a piece of a missile?



BATMAN said:


> In which world do you live...
> As i said before, it all depends on the man incharge.
> Musharraf believed in giving befitting reply, commanding peace.
> Apparently Imran Khan believe in playing nice in good faith, which in my opinion is madness.
> War is no more a worry, even Indian army have realized that they CAN'T fight war... if we engage Indiands preemptively, even their public will know and only this will bring ever lasting peace.
> Indians can only play cheap games out side the war theater and their supporter number 1 is US whom Imran Khan was busy helping out. Which clearly reflect Imran Khan is taking decisions of national security in VERY undemocratic fashion.


Oh bhai, almost every Western, and even some Indian, news organization and analyst is praising Imran Khan and Pakistan over this decision. The only ones distorting this are the rabid, Hindutva and anti-Pakistan hate spewing Indian channels (and surprisingly some of our Pakistanis are agreeing with them), and nothing we do will change how those people cover Pakistan.

There are articles in the NYT and even acknowledgments by Indian defence commentators that Pakistan has outright won the narrative throughout this conflict, even on the 'anti forestation surgical strikes'.

India (Modi) is never going to back down, whether it's one pilot or 10, whether we release him now or later. Modi is never going to compromise in terms of 'exchanging prisoners'. He's an extremist, and extremists continue to pursue their goals regardless of the cost or chance of success.

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## Myth_buster_1

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> I swear, some Pakistanis are having a mental breakdown over the IAF pilot being returned that is almost as bad as the mental breakdown being suffered by the Indians over their jets being shot down and strikes being conducted in IOK and still no evidence of anything other than trees being hit in the Indian 'surgical strikes'.
> 
> These Pakistanis have instantly forgotten how Imran Khan gave the Pakistani military the latitude to respond as necessary, and how the PAF responded with valor and success.
> 
> Sara din 'pilot kyoon release kiya' ka maatam laga hua hai.



Both Indians and Pakistanis are jahil ollu kay pathay! why cant we be like EU and our war must be against to end poverty not fk around for our egos.


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## Sine Nomine

Oscar said:


> The young man is not at fault- he answered in trust and that too a senior who I am assumed was ex-PAF.
> He still did not reveal anything what is not already understood.
> 
> It is the fault of the person recording the call.


You are right sir,but he must not have answered call in this way.


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## waz

Breaking news;

Indian sources claiming Pakistani F-16 pilot was killed by local AJK people as they mistook him for Indian. The PAF have hidden the wreckage. 





https://ipious.blogspot.com/2019/02/shahzaz-ud-din-wing-commander-paf.html?m=1


These guys need help...

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Both Indians and Pakistanis are jahil ollu kay pathay! why cant we be like EU and our war must be against to end poverty not fk around for our egos.


Not going to happen so long as Modi is in charge.

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## SQ8

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> You are right sir,but he must not have answered call in this way.


If someone you respect calls you after you scored a distinction on a subject they taught you, you can answer that way.

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## pakdefender

ghazi768 said:


> What a site of pity!
> IAF officers carrying a fired AIM-120 to some how rescue their honour, what a shame!



Wow they have been reduced to showing parts of ordnance to salvage their totally broken pride , this pic should be put in the records , reduced to showing debris as some kind of face saving 

From denial of first not losing any aircraft , to not losing in air to air combat , they were peddling stories that ground fire brought down the aircraft to showing debris as proof of their air to air loss  this is EPIC !

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## Imran Khan

waz said:


> Breaking news;
> 
> Indian sources claiming Pakistani F-16 pilot was killed by local AJK people as they mistook him for Indian. The PAF have hidden the wreckage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://ipious.blogspot.com/2019/02/shahzaz-ud-din-wing-commander-paf.html?m=1
> 
> 
> These guys need help...


hope next time CNIC le ker jaay gay Pakistani pilots

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## BATMAN

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Can you imagine the hysteria if they had an actual PAF pilot and aircraft to display, given the hysteria over a piece of a missile?
> 
> 
> Oh bhai, almost every Western, and even some Indian, news organization and analyst is praising Imran Khan and Pakistan over this decision. The only ones distorting this are the rabid, Hindutva and anti-Pakistan hate spewing Indian channels (and surprisingly some of our Pakistanis are agreeing with them), and nothing we do will change how those people cover Pakistan.
> 
> There are articles in the NYT and even acknowledgments by Indian defence commentators that Pakistan has outright won the narrative throughout this conflict, even on the 'anti forestation surgical strikes'.
> 
> India (Modi) is never going to back down, whether it's one pilot or 10, whether we release him now or later. Modi is never going to compromise in terms of 'exchanging prisoners'.



Fine, but who gave Imran Khan authority to act like a dictator?
India army soldier should be in custody of army, where he should be debriefed in systematic manner.
Why the hell Imran Khan is micro managing army's operations like field marshal?
Should i believe, Imran has been issuing verbal orders to army officers and telling them to bypass all process and procedures.

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## Imran Khan

pakdefender said:


> Wow they have been reduced to showing parts of ordnance to salvage their totaly broken pride , this pic should be put in the records , reduced to showing debris as some kind of face saving
> 
> 
> View attachment 543018


i was not expecting them to go this down . but they have proven they can go any long down. we learnt that IAF is honorable force but its not


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

BATMAN said:


> Fine, but who gave Imran Khan authority to act like a dictator?
> India army soldier should be in custody of army, where he should be debriefed in systematic manner.
> Why the hell Imran Khan is micro managing army's operations like field marshal?
> Should i believe, Imran has been issuing verbal orders to army officers and telling them to bypass all process and procedures.


Why are you assuming that the Military was not on board with this release?

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## Sine Nomine

Oscar said:


> If someone you respect calls you after you scored a distinction on a subject they taught you, you can answer that way.


No doubt about it.


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## BATMAN

pakdefender said:


> Wow they have been reduced to showing parts of ordnance to salvage their totaly broken pride , this pic should be put in the records , reduced to showing debris as some kind of face saving
> 
> 
> View attachment 543018



Without assurance and backup of US India can't lie openly on technical matters.
Issue is far grave than it looks.


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## mshan44

looks like they are still upto something


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## ziaulislam

arbit said:


> My point exactly. You guys are not admitting that F-16 were used, but an AIM WAS fired. It can only be fired by F-16. So the lie gets caught.
> And please don't tell me you integrated the AIM on a jet with chinese avionics and radar!
> 
> PAF knows the truth now. Only their morale matters. Yahoos on the net can do all the chest thumping they want. The objective has been achieved.


In that particular operations ..there have been several other engagement 
Some state this isnt PAF BVR..but i havent checked


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## Myth_buster_1

BATMAN said:


> Fine, but who gave Imran Khan authority to act like a dictator?
> India army soldier should be in custody of army, where he should be debriefed in systematic manner.
> Why the hell Imran Khan is micro managing army's operations like field marshal?
> Should i believe, Imran has been issuing verbal orders to army officers and telling them to bypass all process and procedures.


At this point Imran khan is only a mouth piece of PK Military.


----------



## BATMAN

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Why are you assuming that the Military was not on board with this release?



I'm not question being on board or not being on board.
I'm questioning army's standard operational procedures, which shouldn't be overstepped by ANY measure of love for Imran Khan by anyone.
This dictatorial behavior will be challenged in courts sooner than later.
In democracy it's public who decide, in dictatorship ruler act against popular sentiment.



Myth_buster_1 said:


> At this point Imran khan is only a mouth piece of PK Military.


That's unfortunate...


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## Shakir87

How to upload the audio mp3 or a video. I have a clip where pakistani pilot is talking to his senior retired officer. 
Pilot said they have attacked the ground troops of India as well but not claiming on media deliberately. 
Have any one else got that clip ? I'm Trying to figure out if it's real or fake conversation.


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## mshan44

Shakir87 said:


> How to upload the audio mp3 or a video. I have a clip where pakistani pilot is talking to his senior retired officer.
> Pilot said they have attacked the ground troops of India as well but not claiming on media deliberately.
> Have any one else got that clip ? I'm Trying to figure out if it's real or fake conversation.


i have that clip as well

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## Thunder.Storm

BATMAN said:


> Fine, but who gave Imran Khan authority to act like a dictator?
> India army soldier should be in custody of army, where he should be debriefed in systematic manner.
> Why the hell Imran Khan is micro managing army's operations like field marshal?
> Should i believe, Imran has been issuing verbal orders to army officers and telling them to bypass all process and procedures.


جینیوا کنونشن پر دنیا کے تقریبا ً تمام ممالک دستخط کرچکے ہیں اور خلاف ورزی کی کوئی گنجائش نہیں۔ جنیوا معاہدے کے مطابق دو ممالک کے درمیان جاری مسلح جنگ یا چپقلش میں اگر ایک ملک کا کوئی فوجی دوسرے ملک کے قبضے میں آجائے تو وہ نہ صرف اس کے ساتھ بہتر سلوک کا پابند ہوگا، بلکہ اس ملک کے پاس تفتیش کے اتنے بھی اختیارات نہیں ہوں گے کہ وہ اس قیدی سے جنگی معاملات حاصل کرسکے۔ جنیوا معاہدے کے مطابق ایک قیدی صرف اپنا نام، رینک، سروس نمبر اور بٹالین کے بارے میں ہی بتا سکتا ہے اور اس سے زیادہ اس سے پوچھا نہیں جاسکتا۔
اسی معاہدے کے تحت جنگی قیدی کو فوری طور پر واپس کرنا بھی شامل ہے، انکار کی صورت میں قید رکھنے والے ملک کے خلاف بین الاقوامی طور پر سفارتی ، معاشی اور جنگی دباؤ بھی ڈالا جاسکے گا۔
واضح رہے کہ یہ شرائط جنگی قیدیوں پر اپلائی ہوتی ہیں، جاسوسوں پر نہیں۔ اس لئے نندو کیلئے تو جنیوا کنونش مددگار ہوسکتا ہے، کلبھوشن کیلئے نہیں۔

نئی دہلی نے کل ہی پاکستانی حکومت سے جنیوا معاہدے کے تحت اپنے پائلٹ کی واپسی کا مطالبہ کردیا تھا۔
اس تناظر میں دیکھا جائے تو نندو کو آج نہیں تو کل رہا ہونا ہی تھا، لیکن عمران خان نے سفارتی محاذ پر ایک مرتبہ پھر ماسٹر سٹروک کھیل کر نندو کی رہائی کا اعلان کردیا، باوجود اس کے کہ ہمیں اسے رہا کرنا ہی تھا لیکن اب ساری دنیا بشمول بھارتی تجزیہ نگار بھی اسے پاکستان اور عمران خان کی اخلاقی فتح قرار دے رہے ہیں اور بھارت اور مودی کی سبکی سمجھ رہے ہیں۔

اس سارے کھیل مِں ہم نے کیا کھویا؟
بھارتی جہاز لائن آف کنٹرول کراس کرکے چار کلومیٹر اندر آئے، ہمارے تیرہ درخت شہید کرگئے ۔ ۔ ۔

اس سارے کھیل میں ہم نے کیا پایا؟
دنیا کو دکھا دیا کہ جنگ میں پہل بھارت کررہا ہے، اس کے ساتھ ساتھ دو بھارتی طیارے تباہ کردیئے، ان کا پائلٹ گرفتار کردیا اور پھر اسے چائے پلا کر ساری دنیا میں اس کا انٹرویو چلا دیا جس سے بھارتی فوج نفسیاتی طور پر دباؤ کا شکار ہوگئی ۔ ۔ ۔ اور آخر میں کمال مہربانی کرتے ہوئے اسے مراثیوں کا منڈا سمجھ کر آزاد بھی کردیا اور دنیا سے داد بھی وصول کرلی۔

اللہ کی مہربانی سے آج پاکستان نے وہ سب کچھ حاصل کرلیا جو شاید پچھلے تیس برس میں بھی ہم نے حاصل نہیں کیا تھا ۔ ۔ ۔

بھارت کو سبق مل چکا، اگر اس نے دوبارہ شرارت کی تو اسے ایک مرتبہ پھر منہ کی کھانی پڑے گی۔
Edited: Copied

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## Shakir87

What do you recon? Real or fake?


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## Agha Sher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101179478703833088

Edit: He died in the Mi-17 crash


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## Trailer23

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Can you imagine the hysteria if they had an actual PAF pilot and aircraft to display, given the hysteria over a piece of a missile?


Their entire nation would be busy later that night with a moist towel.


----------



## BATMAN

Thunder.Storm said:


> جینیوا کنونشن پر دنیا کے تقریبا ً تمام ممالک دستخط کرچکے ہیں اور خلاف ورزی کی کوئی گنجائش نہیں۔ جنیوا معاہدے کے مطابق دو ممالک کے درمیان جاری مسلح جنگ یا چپقلش میں اگر ایک ملک کا کوئی فوجی دوسرے ملک کے قبضے میں آجائے تو وہ نہ صرف اس کے ساتھ بہتر سلوک کا پابند ہوگا، بلکہ اس ملک کے پاس تفتیش کے اتنے بھی اختیارات نہیں ہوں گے کہ وہ اس قیدی سے جنگی معاملات حاصل کرسکے۔ جنیوا معاہدے کے مطابق ایک قیدی صرف اپنا نام، رینک، سروس نمبر اور بٹالین کے بارے میں ہی بتا سکتا ہے اور اس سے زیادہ اس سے پوچھا نہیں جاسکتا۔
> اسی معاہدے کے تحت جنگی قیدی کو فوری طور پر واپس کرنا بھی شامل ہے، انکار کی صورت میں قید رکھنے والے ملک کے خلاف بین الاقوامی طور پر سفارتی ، معاشی اور جنگی دباؤ بھی ڈالا جاسکے گا۔
> واضح رہے کہ یہ شرائط جنگی قیدیوں پر اپلائی ہوتی ہیں، جاسوسوں پر نہیں۔ اس لئے نندو کیلئے تو جنیوا کنونش مددگار ہوسکتا ہے، کلبھوشن کیلئے نہیں۔
> 
> نئی دہلی نے کل ہی پاکستانی حکومت سے جنیوا معاہدے کے تحت اپنے پائلٹ کی واپسی کا مطالبہ کردیا تھا۔
> اس تناظر میں دیکھا جائے تو نندو کو آج نہیں تو کل رہا ہونا ہی تھا، لیکن عمران خان نے سفارتی محاذ پر ایک مرتبہ پھر ماسٹر سٹروک کھیل کر نندو کی رہائی کا اعلان کردیا، باوجود اس کے کہ ہمیں اسے رہا کرنا ہی تھا لیکن اب ساری دنیا بشمول بھارتی تجزیہ نگار بھی اسے پاکستان اور عمران خان کی اخلاقی فتح قرار دے رہے ہیں اور بھارت اور مودی کی سبکی سمجھ رہے ہیں۔
> 
> اس سارے کھیل مِں ہم نے کیا کھویا؟
> بھارتی جہاز لائن آف کنٹرول کراس کرکے چار کلومیٹر اندر آئے، ہمارے تیرہ درخت شہید کرگئے ۔ ۔ ۔
> 
> اس سارے کھیل میں ہم نے کیا پایا؟
> دنیا کو دکھا دیا کہ جنگ میں پہل بھارت کررہا ہے، اس کے ساتھ ساتھ دو بھارتی طیارے تباہ کردیئے، ان کا پائلٹ گرفتار کردیا اور پھر اسے چائے پلا کر ساری دنیا میں اس کا انٹرویو چلا دیا جس سے بھارتی فوج نفسیاتی طور پر دباؤ کا شکار ہوگئی ۔ ۔ ۔ اور آخر میں کمال مہربانی کرتے ہوئے اسے مراثیوں کا منڈا سمجھ کر آزاد بھی کردیا اور دنیا سے داد بھی وصول کرلی۔
> 
> اللہ کی مہربانی سے آج پاکستان نے وہ سب کچھ حاصل کرلیا جو شاید پچھلے تیس برس میں بھی ہم نے حاصل نہیں کیا تھا ۔ ۔ ۔
> 
> بھارت کو سبق مل چکا، اگر اس نے دوبارہ شرارت کی تو اسے ایک مرتبہ پھر منہ کی کھانی پڑے گی۔



Following Geneva convention:
Kashmir belong to Pakistan and take this case as well to Geneva:

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## b4umsf

Trailer23 said:


> Their entire nation would be busy later that night with a moist towel.


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## BATMAN

Agha Sher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101179478703833088
> Edit: He died in the Mi-17 crash



Why SU30 pilot was flying Mi-17? and how you know Agha?


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## CHACHA"G"

Agha Sher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101179478703833088
> Edit: He died in the Mi-17 crash


They put him in MI-17...……. First they said 3 dead in MI-17 crash now they said 6 !!!!!!! lol they increased 3 !!!! in a heli crash ………



BATMAN said:


> Why SU30 pilot was flying Mi-17? and how you know Agha?


Indian will going to have some funny excuse …..

lol to me: Indian lost 3 jets and 1 heli
Indian lost 1 mig-21 inside Pakistan by Pakistan.
Indian lost 1 (double engine 2 seater Jet) inside India (maybe by Pakistani fire maybe technical fire )
Indian lost an other Mig-21 inside India maybe trainer Mig-21 , maybe from Pakistani Fire maybe some technical problem..
Increasing dead number in heli crash …………. only pointing out in one direction..


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## mshan44




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## Ahmad Bhutta

Shocking how entire Indian media is busy with propaganda, got no time to pay their respect to the 6 Indian Air force officers who were killed yesterday in Kashmir after an IAF chopper went down which India said was crashed due to technical fault.


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## Agha Sher

BATMAN said:


> Why SU30 pilot was flying Mi-17? and how you know Agha?



Where do you see he was SU-30 pilot? There was strong consensus in the comment section that he had died in the Mi-17 crash.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

Falcon26 said:


> Unless PAF shows actual locks on IAF jets, the Indians will milk this till kingdom come. At the end of the day, the Indians crossed the Pakistani borders, “released a payload” according to ISPR and left unscathed. It looks horrible for PAF & Pakistan but I am expecting a flood of excuses from
> the Pakistani side.



You mentioned in this thread that PAF shooting down indian jet is first AIR TO AIR Kill b/w nuclear powers? is this true?

There were previous instances...weren't they?


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## CHACHA"G"

According to FM/Qurashi Indian PM modi is not taking PM Imran Khan Call...…….. Modi refused …….. 

And on F-16 ……….. If it was real USA might have public it already...


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## BATMAN

When Pakistan had evidence of Indian state behind terrorism in Pakistan, why they handed over the evidence to Indians in Egypt and why not use platform of Geneva convention?


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## Falcon26

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> You mentioned in this thread that PAF shooting down indian jet is first AIR TO AIR Kill b/w nuclear powers? is this true?
> 
> There were previous instances...weren't they?



I believe so @Windjammer and others can correct me


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## waz

Guys has India found the other Mig 21 pilot? How do the other plane crash?


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## The Accountant

Hodor said:


> *As us being civilians it doesn't concern us which aircrafts were used,which sqn was involved or similar stuff.
> 
> What concerns us is whether military did their job or not and everyone knows they did.Military released the information which it thought suitable enough to be released.What they didn't release wasn't meant for us to know.
> 
> I know everyone here is military enthusiast and wants to know stuff LIKE ME but still its my humble request to everyone stop trying to know the stuff that doesn't concerns you at least relating to this event. What concerns us is forces did the job and did not lose any aircraft.*



Sir on a lighter note ... cant stop ourselves for enjoying the details

Hats off to ourr brave soldiers


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## Agha Sher

There is a real possibility for that the Indians are subscribing the dead pilots to the casualties occurred in the Mi-17 crash, in order to hide them. They started by claiming 3 died in the Mi-17 crash and now suddenly it is 6.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Falcon26 said:


> I believe so @Windjammer and others can correct me



I got confused after reading below

The Avro Lincoln was operated by the Central Gunnery School at RAF Leconfield and was on a routine long-distance training flight.[1] The aircraft was intercepted by two Soviet MiG 15 fighters and after it failed to respond to challenges it was shot down by the fighters' 23 mm cannons.[1][2] The Avro Lincoln crashed east of Boizenburg, on the border of the British and Soviet zones, impacting in a wood between Vierkrug and Horst in the Soviet Zone.[1] It was initially reported that six of the seven crew had been killed and one wounded; the wounded airman was one of three that had bailed out but would later die in hospital.[1][3] German civilians on the ground reported that two British airmen bailed out from the doomed aircraft, only to be strafed and killed by one of the MiG 15s.[2]

----

India shot down a Pakistan patrol aircraft Atlantique in 1999. 

----

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_shootdowns#Cold_War_(1947–1991

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## CHACHA"G"

waz said:


> Guys has India found the other Mig 21 pilot? How do the other plane crash?


~They only increased the number of dead in heli crash that's it...…..



Agha Sher said:


> There is a real possibility for that the Indians are subscribing the dead pilots to the casualties occurred in the Mi-17 crash, in order to hide them. They started by claiming 3 died in the Mi-17 crash and now suddenly it is 6.


I am pointing out same...……… some thing fishy here

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## waz

Agha Sher said:


> There is a real possibility for that the Indians are subscribing the dead pilots to the casualties occurred in the Mi-17 crash, in order to hide them. They started by claiming 3 died in the Mi-17 crash and now suddenly it is 6.



Looks like it....
There's no mention of the second craft which was clearly burning in wreckage on the Indian side of the LOC.

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## NA71

CHACHA"G" said:


> According to FM/Qurashi Indian PM modi is not taking PM Imran Khan Call...…….. Modi refused ……..
> 
> And on F-16 ……….. If it was real USA might have public it already...


now what next.....imran said he tried calling him last night....I will try again .....why calling him.....just let it go....FCK him ....tell due some tech fault your pilot will remain here


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## AsianLion

mshan44 said:


> Best tweet of the day big slap to indian anchor
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101152332518178816



Thats a big shut up call to Indian lies, more the Indian media lie more they get exposed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101152332518178816

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## CHACHA"G"

nahmed71 said:


> now what next.....imran said he tried calling him last night....I will try again .....why calling him.....just let it go....FCK him ....tell due some tech fault your pilot will remain here


We are trying our best for peace …… It is war of perception too. . . Now whole world knows we tried.... So now no one blame us for Nuclear winter which will come soon...…… very soon...……..


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## AsianLion

waz said:


> Looks like it....
> There's no mention of the second craft which was clearly burning in wreckage on the Indian side of the LOC.




This is Su 30 Mki or Mig 29 that was second strike by PAF in Budgam. Both the Helicopter and Aircraft went down in J & K.


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## Armstrong

@Oscar - Long time...!

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## AsianLion

*Dual Pilot IAF Su 30 Mki / Mig 29 shot down by PAF fell at Garend Kalan village, 7 Km from Budgam near to Pakistani LOC.*

This is Su 30 Mki or Mig 29 that was second strike by PAF in Kalan Village that fell in J & K.


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## waz

AsianUnion said:


> This is Su 30 Mki or Mig 29 that was second strike by PAF in Budgam. Both the Helicopter and Aircraft went down in J & K.



But why have they not even mentioned this? The evidence is crazy with this video. Are they saying it was an accident?

They're saying it is a helicopter which has merit.

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## SQ8

Armstrong said:


> @Oscar - Long time...!


Life’s been keeping me really busy- plus only come here now to piss Indian trolls off in drama , since that is what their national policy looks to be.



waz said:


> But why have they not even mentioned this? The evidence is crazy with this video. Are they saying it was an accident?


That is a Mi-17

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## Armstrong

Oscar said:


> Life’s been keeping me really busy- plus only come here now to piss Indian trolls off in drama , since that is what their national policy looks to be.



I logged on after a hiatus that lasted the better part of 4-5 years. But things appear to be the same...everyones going batsh*t crazy! 

Any of the old gang left?

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## waz

Oscar said:


> That is a Mi-17



Yes that's right I just looked it up. 
So there was no second jet downed by the PAF.



Armstrong said:


> I logged on after a hiatus that lasted the better part of 4-5 years. But things appear to be the same...everyone going batsh*t crazy!
> 
> Any of the old gang left?



Bro everyone is here lol.

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## Armstrong

waz said:


> Bro everyone is here lol.



Waz Bhaiiiiiii!

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## SQ8

Armstrong said:


> I logged on after a hiatus that lasted the better part of 4-5 years. But things appear to be the same...everyone going batsh*t crazy!
> 
> Any of the old gang left?


Some are, but in the bitter tit for tat a lot have left.
Indian troll army and our tailored response to them ruined the camaraderie we had even with the normal Indian members here.
I lost interest in doing good stuff too, we needed time out for all sides to let the hate subside which was never sanctioned.

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## AsianLion

waz said:


> But why have they not even mentioned this? The evidence is crazy with this video. Are they saying it was an accident?
> 
> They're saying it is a helicopter which has merit.




No in Budgam MI-17 helicopter fell and 7 KM from Budgam in Garend Kalan Village the IAF Su30Mki/Mig 29 fell.

Because of the utter shame India is facing. Locals and everyone can now clearly see its not MIG 21 Bison, it is dual pilot Su30MKI or Mig 29, both pilots died which India refuse to accept, and PAF must have the captured shots which maybe released due to obvious Pakistani Govt stated official position.

IAF knows what the two aircrafts including a helicopter are which went down on same day. Budgam is not far from LOC, and the village Garend Kalan village is 7 Km from Budgam more towards Azad Kashmir Pakistani side LOC.
*
*


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## SQ8

waz said:


> Yes that's right I just looked it up.
> So there was no second jet downed by the PAF.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro everyone is here lol.


Two PAF pilots have claimed kills

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## waz

AsianUnion said:


> No in Budgam MI-17 helicopter fell and 7 KM from Budgam in Garend Kalan Village the IAF Su30Mki/Mig 29 fell.



But bro there is no footage of this, the locals would have filmed it for sure. We shouldn't do a Times of India and start to make up claims (NOT that you are but facts must be ascertained) that are not even true i.e. their shooting down of an F-16.

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## Armstrong

Oscar said:


> Some are, but in the bitter tit for tat a lot have left.
> Indian troll army and our tailored response to them ruined the camaraderie we had even with the normal Indian members here.
> I lost interest in doing good stuff too, we needed time out for all sides to let the hate subside which was never sanctioned.



So Oscar, you always could make better sense of what was going on, than I ever could. So fill me in mate. What happened? Did the Indians bomb us? Did we went in with the cavalry and lost one of ours? Or did the Indian Media just spin doctored the whole thing? And where the heck did they get an AMRAAM from?


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## TsAr

arbit said:


> Use of F-16 has been established. Your PAF denied the use of F-16 vehemently until now. Piece the dots together.
> 
> Congenital liars you guys are





Oscar said:


> Two PAF pilots have claimed kills


The other one it seems is camera shy


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## Dr. Strangelove

Armstrong said:


> @Oscar - Long time...!


your late to the party
haven't seen you in a while

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## Dubious

@waz @Oscar @Armstrong chit chat?!

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## Armstrong

Dr. Strangelove said:


> your late to the party
> haven't seen you in a while



Yup...its been what 4, maybe 5 years since I logged on. But such is life! 

How have you been? 



Dubious said:


> @waz @Oscar @Armstrong chit chat?!



Abbb tu mujhe warning deiii ga?  

Phir forum seh chalaa jaooon!

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## Dubious

Armstrong said:


> Abbb tu mujhe warning deiii ga?


meri joorat? 

I see @Emmie came out to play too

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## m52k85

Oscar said:


> The young man is not at fault- he answered in trust and that too a senior who I am assumed was ex-PAF.
> He still did not reveal anything what is not already understood.
> 
> It is the fault of the person recording the call.



Or could simply be a staged call. Zaid Hamid was pushing the 350 killed since yesterday, so could simply be the hawks on our side.

Could be true as well, in any case "don't wish to face your enemy in battle but when you do, be steadfast"

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## Armstrong

I can see @AgNoStiC MuSliM lurking here as well!

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## m52k85

Oscar said:


> Two PAF pilots have claimed kills



I think it was windy that floated the name of the second, a wing commander, ive lost the post..


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## AsianLion

soundHound said:


> Incursions happened near Rajouri and Nowshera, that's over 200km from Budgam, again please don't quote Indian media as proof when you don't accept rest of it.
> 
> There is a video from Azad Kashmir going hot In youtube where local captured this pursuit, you can clearly hear them saying 1 pilot ejected(Mig21) and then moments later 2 more pilots ejected(f16), where this other 2 pilots are? This simply relates to what ispr said earlier 3 pilots, 1 was IAF and 2 we're of PAF which when upon realising made them change there stament to 1 pilot.




Ok ISPR was lying, and it was PAF dual pilots F16, tell me one thing Indian air chief and IAF must have footage of shoot out, they must have lock on. Atleast show proof like the whole world knows and seen the proof.

Pakistan will be busted out in open for all to see!!! Simple. Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence not Indian media lies.

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## Hareeb

Indian anchor's lie about F-16 shoot down busted in live show.





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Dubious

Armstrong said:


> I can see @AgNoStiC MuSliM lurking here as well!


He has been active but @Emmie is eid ka chand

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## CHACHA"G"

waz said:


> But bro there is no footage of this, the locals would have filmed it for sure. We shouldn't do a Times of India and start to make up claims (NOT that you are but facts must be ascertained) that are not even true i.e. their shooting down of an F-16.











lol ….. In first Video ,Eye witness said it was jet not a heli and few people at back were saying 2 piolet dead , but man on camera said 3 … Police office said 2 bodies recovered ........... 
Even they were (are) confused . what to say and what not.

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## m52k85

m52k85 said:


> I think it was windy that floated the name of the second, a wing commander, ive lost the post..





Windjammer said:


> It's reported that Wing Commander Faheem, flying JF-17 serial No-102 was the other pilot who shot down the SU-30.



found it. Wing Commander Faheem allegedly.


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## haman10

At this moment in time I'm not really a fan of Pakistani government, not at all unfortuantely. in fact I'm far from that.
but i gotta say this is really embarrassing for India, WTF.



m52k85 said:


> found it. Wing Commander Faheem allegedly.


can you give me a recap on how many fighters on both sides have been downed?

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## TheDarkKnight

mohsen said:


> LOL, I have no friend in India or Pakistan, and I will take neither side.
> 
> I gently asked here about the situation:
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...irspace-dg-ispr.604291/page-107#post-11214496
> 
> It was *Pakistanis *who said *more than one* Indian pilot has been *captured* and the other two are in hospital.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...irspace-dg-ispr.604291/page-108#post-11214524
> 
> It was Pakistanis who were barging about shooting down the SU30 and MIG29.
> So, it's clear who has played gymnastic here.


Hi
You can make any sorts of claim, but they will be unsubstantiated. I provided some logical alternate explanations on how this can be explained, to which you failed to respond (as per my expectations ) further this is war situation and information is released, withheld or even reversed for certain strategic purposes - that is not gymnastics. If we go with substantiated evidence so far we have one IAF pilot and jet in Pakistan for whole world to see. PAF claims another jet, but yes we have yet to substantiate if we see as a neutral observer. Then overhere I dont understand why you missed the opportunity to also equate the “crashed” mig21 jet and MI17 as also shot by Pakistan, but want to take words and then turn them into evidence for some bigger far reaching conclusion your liking, for example an f16 loss?
If the second pilot previously claimed to be in hospital is one of ours, then why would we claim him as Indian in a press conference - are we that stupid to not recognize our own pilot, from our own fighter jet crashed in our own territory?Just think about this alone and you will realize that this reversal of info is for matters about which you and me do not have the clearance to give a authentic opinion; and without substantial evidence we can only *speculate inconclusively* in many directions. I will repost my alternate explanations from previous post again with some additions, and I hope you dont miss them this time:
“The correction can mean many things if we speculate:
1) could be dead?
2) could have managed to escape
3) the second jet was in IOK so maybe they were too close to the LOC and we thought they landed on our side but didn't.”
4) We have the pilot but will reveal later, or we had him but couldn’t survive injuries and is dead; the benefit of hiding this is not to escalate situation with India as they already have lost uniformed soldiers and a pilot captured and paraded on live tv so far, vs some fictional 300 terrorists chilling in Balakot (which turned to be trees).
5) Indians lied about the first jet and Abhinand as well when Pak initially claimed with vids public - India still stated all pilots accounted for; doesnt this tell that they will hide facts and lied about their loss from beginning, so equally likely they are doing the same for the F16 kill.
5) We were just mistaken as can happen in war like situations.
6) We can do a count of our F16s to end all of speculation once the environment cools down - i am quite sure along with our Iranian friends, US and Lockheed Martin would be eager to know for sure. Trust me Americans would like to account for all F16s to esnure we did not export it illegally to China , so there is no hiding if Pak is lying.
@VCheng @gambit would like your opinion on the last point - as you say there are checks and balances on use of F16s by US, wouldnt US like to know where one the F16s with ITAR parts have disappeared if we haven't lost any? If there is a loss then wreckage also would need to be accounted for. And the AMRAAM shown - i have some aerospace exp on civil side from which I know every part/lru has an associated part no for identification and version control to ensure a plane is certified and has conformity for specific usage. It should be similar in military side. These are are not some honda civics that can disappear, or its origin of parts that cannot be identified. ( actually car manufacturers are pretty similar in part no identification)

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

CHACHA"G" said:


> lol ….. In first Video ,Eye witness said it was jet not a heli and few people at back were saying 2 piolet dead , but man on camera said 3 … Police office said 2 bodies recovered ...........
> Even they were (are) confused . what to say and what not.


In the first video the initial two letters of ZP are visible on what is clearly a helicopter tail. Also, the registration ZP are used for helicopters by the IAF.
Here's another image of the same site, clearly showing the rotor assembly of a HELICOPTER.


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## Goku-kun

arbit said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101144306637656065
> The missiles were indeed purchased by Pakistan. So another propaganda busted


FACT-CHECKING: Missile shown by Indian generals appears to be one sold to Taiwan | The Express Tribune
*FACT-CHECKING: Missile shown by Indian generals appears to be one sold to Taiwan*
By Zeeshan Ahmad
Published: February 28, 2019





Part of a missile India claims was launched a PAF F-16. SCEREN GRAB

KARACHI: As New Delhi presented what it claimed was ‘incontrovertible proof’ that Pakistan used its F-16 fighter jets in Wednesday’s air action, a fact-checking exercise by _The Express Tribun_e revealed that the missile remains the Indian military found could belong to a missile sold by the US to Taiwan.

India’s top military brass on Thursday displayed the remains of an American-made missile as ‘absolute proof’ that the Pakistan Air Force used F-16s in aerial operations conducted the day before. Claiming that the missile could only have been launched by an F-16, the Indian generals tried to strengthen their claims that the Indian Air Force also shot down a PAF F-16 while losing a MiG-21.

Imran Khan wins praise over captured pilot’s release

The wreckage displayed by the Indian generals identified the missile as an AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM. Markings on the wreckage also identified the contract serial number of the missile as FA8675-05-C-0070.






A Google search _The Express Tribune_ ran using the keyword ‘AMRAAM’ along with the serial number in question returned links to a US Department of Defense (DoD) document titled “Report to Congress on Department Of Defense Sales of Significant Military Equipment to Foreign Entities Fiscal Year 2009”.






The report revealed that contract number FA867505C0070 corresponded to a batch of AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM missiles supplied to Taiwan in a Foreign Military Sale worth $2.38 million.

It should be noted that Pakistan does not recognise Taiwan as a separate entity from the People’s Republic of China and as such, does not have any diplomatic or consular relations with Taiwan.

How the wreckage of a missile sold to Taiwan ended up in the hands of an Indian military air vice marshal is something only New Delhi can explain.

A version of the report can be found on the official website of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment. It can be accessed via the following link:

https://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/cpic/cp/docs/USA002235-10_Complete Foreign Military Sales.pdf

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

haman10 said:


> can you give me a recap on how many fighters on both sides have been downed?


2 confirmed claimed by Pakistan, including at least 1 MiG-21 Bison. 
2 pilots captured as stated by ISPR l, later said to be only 1.
1 MiG-21 lost, pilot in Pakistani custody claimed by India.
1 F-16 shot down, claimed by India, denied by Pakistan.
1 Mi-17 crashed inside Indian administered Kashmir, not claimed by Pakistan.

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## Agha Sher

haman10 said:


> can you give me a recap on how many fighters on both sides have been downed?



Confirmed:
1 IAF Mig-21 Bison - Pilot captured
1 IAF Mi-17v5 Crashed/downed under suspicious circumstances.

Claimed: (but no solid evidence)
1 IAF Mig-21 Bison/Mig-29/Su-30 MKI (Claimed by official/semi-official Pakistani sources)
1 PAF F-16 (Claimed by official Indian sources)

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## m52k85

haman10 said:


> At this moment in time I'm not really a fan of Pakistani government, not at all unfortuantely. in fact I'm far from that.
> but i gotta say this is really embarrassing for India, WTF.
> 
> 
> can you give me a recap on how many fighters on both sides have been downed?



1 Indian Mig-21 on Pakistani side, confirmed with pilot in custody, and pictures, time stamped pictures, then videos.

1 more Indian of unknown type, unconfirmed, alleged by Pakistan to have fallen on the Indian side.

1 Pakistani F-16 alleged by India, no evidence. Piece of AMRAAM shown by indians only, which at the most proofs an F-16 was out hunting/ defending.

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## CHACHA"G"

Logical Pakistani said:


> In the first video the initial two letters of ZP are visible on what is clearly a helicopter tail. Also, the registration ZP are used for helicopters by the IAF.
> Here's another image of the same site, clearly showing the rotor assembly of a HELICOPTER.


Even that a heli ,,,,,,, Body count was 2 according to SSP and 2 according to back ground crowed , but 3 according to guy on Camera …….. Indian too said 3 ,,,,,,,, but they changed it to SIX...… Rest who knows,,,,,,,,, lol And the piolet died n heli crash (dew to technical reason) want revenge from Pakistan... Why!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mshan44



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## SQ8

TsAr said:


> The other one it seems is camera shy


No, its operational prudence to not focus on a pilot especially in the case where we do not have a wreckage to verify. The PAF has excellent standards in awarding kills- we saw the hit and the aircraft go plop both visually and on radar.
The type needs to be determined as well but since your side is focused on face saving we cant say.

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

CHACHA"G" said:


> Even that a heli ,,,,,,, Body count was 2 according to SSP and 2 according to back ground crowed , but 3 according to guy on Camera …….. Indian too said 3 ,,,,,,,, but they changed it to SIX...… Rest who knows,,,,,,,,, lol And the piolet died n heli crash (dew to technical reason) want revenge from Pakistan... Why!!!!!!!!!!!


yes but DG ISPR stated in his press briefing that Pakistan had nothing to do with it.
The deceased btw have been claimed as:
Wing Commander Siddharth Sharma;
Squadron Leader Ninad Mandavgane;
Sergeant Vikrant Sehrawat;
Corporal Pankaj Kumar;
Corporal Deepak Pandey;
Kumar Pandey.

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## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> It's reported that Wing Commander Faheem, flying JF-17 serial No-102 was the other pilot who shot down the SU-30.


Incorrect.

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## CHACHA"G"

Logical Pakistani said:


> yes but DG ISPR stated in his press briefing that Pakistan had nothing to do with it.
> The deceased btw have been claimed as:
> Wing Commander Siddharth Sharma;
> Squadron Leader Ninad Mandavgane;
> Sergeant Vikrant Sehrawat;
> Corporal Pankaj Kumar;
> Corporal Deepak Pandey;
> Kumar Pandey.


That is what I said ,,,,,, we have nothing to do with it...….. Although local saying they heard blast in air , 2 sounds and bird came down burning ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, And look at those name ……especially top 2...What were they doing in heli .. All thing is fishy ……… And the area where that heli crash does not look that big.. so why they changed body count 2 to 3 then few hours later 3 to 6...……..


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## Pakhtoon yum

Wow almost 400 pages,
90% Indian BS,
5% unconfirmed reports 
5% confirmed reports
I think everyone should take a break for a bit.


----------



## MastanKhan

Hodor said:


> I think not everyone has listened that convo and that is a very poor act done by the ex senior who recorded the call and then made it viral.The junior trusted him and told some stuff and the other guy acted very irresponsibly.



Hi,

That retd person should be re-called court martialled.

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## Goku-kun

Oscar said:


> Incorrect.


Indian officials fail to provide evidence of attack inside Pakistan | Pakistan - Geo.tv

*Indian officials fail to provide evidence of attack inside Pakistan*







Indian defence officials fail to respond to journalists' queries regarding Balakot attack death toll, Pakistan's use of F-16 jets in response to Indian aircraft's intrusion into its airspace. — Geo News screengrab

NEW DELHI: Indian defence officials failed to answer several questions by journalists pertaining to the attack inside Pakistan and response by Pakistan Air Force to Indian jets’ intrusion into Pakistani airspace.

As the representatives of Indian armed forces came to address a press conference on Thursday evening, they faced queries from reporters regarding the death toll in Balakot, any evidence of Pakistan's use of F-16 jets in downing of Indian aircraft and several others.

Indian defence officials, instead of responding to the questions, kept ducking them.

They claimed that Indian attack was successful, however, failed to tell the journalists about casualties, if any.

Regarding the claims of the use of F-16 jets by Pakistan, the officials said it was established through radar signature matching and parts of a missile found from Rajauri, Indian-occupied Kashmir (IoK).

They failed to explain as to how did they ascertain the part of the missile came from a Pakistani F-16 jet, neither they could provide any evidence of radar signature matching.

The representatives of Indian forces went on to say that the wreckage of the downed jet in Azad Kashmir shown by Pakistani media was not of an Indian fighter jet.

Asked if they considered the release of captured Indian pilot by Pakistan a positive move, the officials could only say they were happy with the announcement, but failed to appreciate Pakistan’s “peace gesture”, perhaps fearing a backlash.

They also said the relations between the two countries depend upon Pakistan, adding that if Pakistan initiated any action, they would respond to it.

The officials completely forgot that it was Indian Air Force that violated the Pakistani airspace first, escalating tensions between the two countries.

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## atya

I have a feeling that India is going to play a double game. They will wait for Pakistan to send back Indian pilot and then make an aggressive misadventure

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## Windjammer

Oscar said:


> Incorrect.


Dear the name of pilot maybe wrong but more and more evidence is pointing to use of JF-17 to shoot down the Indian aircraft.

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## Telescopic Sight

CHACHA"G" said:


> That is what I said ,,,,,, we have nothing to do with it...….. Although local saying they heard blast in air , 2 sounds and bird came down burning ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, And look at those name ……especially top 2...What were they doing in heli .. All thing is fishy ……… And the area where that heli crash does not look that big.. so why they changed body count 2 to 3 then few hours later 3 to 6...……..



What does that mean? In the PAF, do enlisted men fly choppers? Of course, there will be 2 officer names. And you have access to Google , no? Just look up the pilot names. Sharma, the main pilot won awards for rescuing civilians in the Kerala state floods last year . Using the same Helicopter !

Is there a vaccine for Conspiracy theories ? 90 % of this forum needs that injection.

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## Indus Pakistan

This is what international media is reporting. Forget about India. Indians can believe what they want. A good selection. Getting horse whipped across the world.


*Pakistan guns down two Indian aircraft over Kashmir*
76,933 views
540 77 Share
Save




The Sun

Published on 27 Feb


* Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets: Foreign ministry | Al Jazeera English*



*Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' over Kashmir - BBC News*
*1,748,964 views*
*14K 2.7K Share*
*Save*

*

*
*BBC News*

*Published on 27 *



*Pakistan shoots down Indian jet, captures pilot*
*50,713 views*
*215 52 Share*
*Save*




*

*
*CBS News*

*Published on 27 Feb 2019*





*Indian Air Force pilot in captivity after his plane was downed*
*104,286 views*
*346 78 Share*
*Save*

*

*
*Daily Mail*

*Published on 27 Feb 201*

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## ababeel22

CHACHA"G" said:


> Even that a heli ,,,,,,, Body count was 2 according to SSP and 2 according to back ground crowed , but 3 according to guy on Camera …….. Indian too said 3 ,,,,,,,, but they changed it to SIX...… Rest who knows,,,,,,,,, lol And the piolet died n heli crash (dew to technical reason) want revenge from Pakistan... Why!!!!!!!!!!!


If some1 is interested, about first video, locals are speaking in kashmiri. Here is what they are saying:
"Is it a jet (heard as jhaat) or a helicopter?"
Guy replies "its a heli not a jet"
Other guy says it looks like it is a huge thing (baed balai). Its quite funny he sounds like he has seen some scifi stuff come to life .
Local boys who appear latter in the video have no idea what they are talking about, they just are exited to be on tv.

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## Bindas

What is this about.

Nothing of f16 In this. Can't change name of video found on YouTube.

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## Telescopic Sight

Windjammer said:


> Dear the name of pilot maybe wrong but more and more evidence is pointing to use of JF-17 to shoot down the Indian aircraft.



Great job by the PAF, but is it necessary to continue this salesmanship of the Thunder ? 
Anyway, upto you. The PAF can claim to have used a gulail also, the results will be just as impressive.


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## Blueskiez 2001

Windjammer said:


> Dear the name of pilot maybe wrong but more and more evidence is pointing to use of JF-17 to shoot down the Indian aircraft.



Hmm the show of a AIM120C-5 from indian side can only mean 1 out of 2:
Either it JF-17 can shoot AIMC-5 or one JF-17 kill and one F-16 kill.

I believe it can only be two....

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## Indus Pakistan

Bindas said:


> What is this about.


More cheap fcukin Indian deception. Where does it say anything about F-16 being shot down? Somebody has got this clip and edited it.

@waz @Horus please take action. I am giving you a negative for posting deceptive links. Note I posted international [non Indian/Pak major media].

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## m52k85

Bindas said:


> What is this about.



what is he saying?

0:55
theen admi they (i saw three shutes)
aik border par se jala gia (escaped into india)
aik hamaray pass (we captured one)
aik ___ chala gia

what is he saying regarding the third one?

DOES NOT mention anything about downing F-16

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## Bindas

Indus Pakistan said:


> More cheap fcukin Indian deception. Where does it say anything about F-16 being shot down? Somebody has got this clip and edited it.
> 
> @waz @Horus please take action. I am giving you a negative for posting deceptive links. Note I posted international [non Indian/Pak major media].


I asked what is it about. I linked it from YouTube. Here he says. Three parachutes.

The name on you tube is f16 etc I can't help.

Three chutes. Or Maybe he is mistaken. I bet we will know in few days .

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## Windjammer

Telescopic Sight said:


> Great job by the PAF, but is it necessary to continue this salesmanship of the Thunder ?
> Anyway, upto you. The PAF can claim to have used a gulail also, the results will be just as impressive.


The JF-17s were very much active during this operation, however the serial number on the piece of missile being shown in India only proves their destination as Taiwan, whom the US supplied to counter PLAAF.
And Pakistan doesn't even has diplomatic relations with that country.

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## aziqbal

Indian lost Su30MKI 

and MIg21

Plus MI17 

facts nothing will change that

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheDarkKnight said:


> Hi
> You can make any sorts of claim, but they will be unsubstantiated. I provided some logical alternate explanations on how this can be explained, to which you failed to respond (as per my expectations ) further this is war situation and information is released, withheld or even reversed for certain strategic purposes - that is not gymnastics. If we go with substantiated evidence so far we have one IAF pilot and jet in Pakistan for whole world to see. The other jet we claim, but yes we have yet substantiate if we see it as as a neutral observer, but then I dont understand why you missed the opportunity to also equate the “crashed” mig21 jet and MI17 as also shot by Pakistan too, but want to take mere words and then turn them into evidence for something bigger of your liking, for example an f16 shot?
> If the second pilot previously claimed to be in hospital is one of ours, why would we claim as Indian in a press conference - are we that stupid to not recognize our own pilot from our fighter jet crashed in our own boundary - just think about this alone and you will realize that this is a reversal of info for matters about which you and me do not have the clearance to give a substantial opinion; and without substantial evidence we can only Speculate inconclusively - i will repost my alternate explanations from previous post again with some additions, i hope you dont miss them this time:
> “The correction can mean many things if we speculate:
> 1) could be dead?
> 2) could have managed to escape
> 3) the second jet was in IOK so maybe they were too close to the LOC and we thought they landed on our side but didn't.”
> 4) We have the pilot but will reveal later, or we had him but couldn’t survive injuries and is dead; the benefit of hiding this is not to escalate situation with India as they already have lost uniformed soldiers and a pilot captured and paraded on live tv so far, vs some fictional 300 terrorists chilling in Balakot (which turned to be trees).
> 4) We were just mistaken as can happen in war like situations.
> 5) We can do a count of our F16s to end all of speculation once the environment cools down - i am quite sure along with our Iranian friends, US and Lockheed Martin would be eager to know for sure. Trust me Americans would like to account for all F16s to esnure we did not export it illegally to China , so there is no hiding if Pak is lying


Rather the Indians definitely were depending on Pentagon/Israil for Pak F16s!!! Guess what? They must have flown to the wrong direction....



aziqbal said:


> Indian lost Su30MKI
> 
> and MIg21
> 
> Plus MI17
> 
> facts nothing will change that


My suggestions to the global arms manufactures is like this - if you want to keep up the reputation of your products sold to India, do provide some staffs to Pak too (it's an opportunity/PR/ad cost in the company's books)....

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## Blueskiez 2001

m52k85 said:


> what is he saying?
> 
> 0:55
> theen admi they (i saw three shutes)
> aik border par se jala gia (escaped into india)
> aik hamaray pass (we captured one)
> aik ___ chala gia
> 
> what is he saying regarding the third one?
> 
> DOES NOT mention anything about downing F-16



Interesting video. IF baba ji (as a eye witness) is to be trusted AND no F-16 was downed then it can ONLY mean one thing:
Regarding the planes:

One mig21 bison downed
One MIG29 or one SU30 downed - Here comes the twist: PM Imran Khan was told: two migs... (what he said in his speech) BUT we have one SU-30 pilot abhinandan so this doesnt gives me any clue of the fighter...

Regarding the pilots:

1 captured
1 escaped to the indian occupied Kashmir
1 brought to the hospital in either severe condition or already dead
regards

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## MikeZulu

Bindas said:


> I asked what is it about. I linked it from YouTube. Here he says. Three parachutes.
> 
> The name on you tube is f16 etc I can't help.
> 
> Three chutes. Or Maybe he is mistaken. I bet we will know in few days .


Personally, I think that we have more than one Indian Pilot in custody but Abhi is being released because his video surfaced and now the whole world knows it .. We have to treat him well and take care of him as per conventions and can't get any secret out of him. But the other pilot is being kept hidden and India also isn't claiming him because it would be an insult to admit that there's another one as they have clearly said that only one was shot down. So probably Pakistan is gonna use the other pilot and get secrets out of him like technical details of aircraft and other important info.
If its true, WIN WIN for us
Any thoughts, plausible or not

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## Telescopic Sight

MikeZulu said:


> Personally, I think that we have more than one Indian Pilot in custody but Abhi is being released because his video surfaced and now the whole world knows it .. We have to treat him well and take care of him as per conventions and can't get any secret out of him. But the other pilot is being kept hidden and India also isn't claiming him because it would be an insult to admit that there's another one as they have clearly said that only one was shot down. So probably Pakistan is gonna use the other pilot and get secrets out of him like technical details of aircraft and other important info.
> If its true, WIN WIN for us
> Any thoughts, plausible or not



very small chance of that happening. No casualty can be hidden in india. You must have seen by now how Indian press is. 
And as a policy , no death is hidden.

but can we be 100% sure ? No

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## MikeZulu

Telescopic Sight said:


> very small chance of that happening. No casualty can be hidden in india. You must have seen by now how Indian press is.
> And as a policy , no death is hidden.
> 
> but can we be 100% sure ? No


If they claim other pilot, Mig-21 being single seater, it will be an insult to them as it would be them accepting the fact that two jets went down

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## mshan44

Oscar said:


> .

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## sohail.ishaque

Bindas said:


> I asked what is it about. I linked it from YouTube. Here he says. Three parachutes.
> 
> The name on you tube is f16 etc I can't help.
> 
> Three chutes. Or Maybe he is mistaken. I bet we will know in few days .


There are a lot of things that you will come to know in a few days but won't discuss.

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## scionofPakwattan

Guys there's still alot of ambiguity, can anyone clarify, or give confirmed tally of what happened; what was used and who downed what? 
I have been told by a source in Pak Army that the second one downed was a SU30 and that we didnt lose anyone or anything. But because of so many rumors flying, it would be nice to get clarity.

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## sohail.ishaque

aziqbal said:


> Indian lost Su30MKI
> 
> and MIg21
> 
> Plus MI17
> 
> facts nothing will change that


And that is what brought Gen Bakhsi back to his senses. Earlier he wanted to finish Pakistan in a day or two and now i heard him saying that we should now prolong the war and cripple the economy of Pakistan. lol.

Plan A, Attack the Pak is out of question now.
Plan B, Cripple economy of Pak is now being discussed by him.



Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Rather the Indians definitely were depending on Pentagon/Israil for Pak F16s!!! Guess what? They must have flown to the wrong direction....
> 
> 
> My suggestions to the global arms manufactures is like this - if you want to keep up the reputation of your products sold to India, do provide some staffs to Pak too (it's an opportunity/PR/ad cost in the company's books)....



Yeah true. And don't provide your jets to IAF.

yesterday a Russian guy was fighting with me trying to prove that a Russian jet can't be destroyed and that the videos are fake.
Even his ego got hurt after realizing what these Idions pilots have done to their jets.



Telescopic Sight said:


> very small chance of that happening. No casualty can be hidden in india. You must have seen by now how Indian press is.
> And as a policy , no death is hidden.
> 
> but can we be 100% sure ? No


lol...
get back to earth plz..
There are Indian army soldiers that are dead in a PAF raid but we haven't taken credit of it as it would prove that we have crossed the line, and they are not showing it as it would be a disgrace to them.

Btw have you seen the video in which they are showing Mig21 engine as F16 engine and then an expert says, that mistakenly it is a Mig engine and not F16 and ........ lol

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## Telescopic Sight

sohail.ishaque said:


> get back to earth plz..
> There are Indian army soldiers that are dead in a PAF raid but we haven't taken credit of it as it would prove that we have crossed the line, and they are not showing it as it would be a disgrace to them.
> 
> lol



Sorry to tell you this. But your belief about 300 Indian soldiers is based on that phone call, no?
Well,that is a hoax my friend. Ask those members of the paf who are in this forum itself.

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## Riaz Hussain

Hmmmm...

All I can say is that we screwed up bigtime in the press conference. We first said 2 planes shot and 'pilots' are with us one in a hospital. Then we went back on our word and changed the story to one pilot. This is very unprofessional. I have been talking to people from other countries(third party) on other fora and they dont like this one bit. They are questioning the sloppy press conference given by our guys. then we said no f-16 was used but there is growing evidence that we did use it. if a question was asked about f-16 then all they had to do was say "no comment". was that too hard to say? 

number 2, their stupid media has been giving all sorts of bollywood dramabazi, but their press conference was not wishy washy like ours. they havent gone back on their words like ours did. i'm having a hard time countering this on other fora.

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## mshan44

Indian pilots went on training in Russia, 
Russian instructor showed them, This button for to go left.
This is for to go right.
And this for to go up. 
At the end he asked any question. 
All indian pilots raise the hands Sir how we come down? 
Dont worry, leave that for *pakistani's*

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## Telescopic Sight

Riaz Hussain said:


> Hmmmm...
> 
> All I can say is that we screwed up bigtime in the press conference. We first said 2 planes shot and 'pilots' are with us one in a hospital. Then we went back on our word and changed the story to one pilot. This is very unprofessional. I have been talking to people from other countries(third party) on other fora and they dont like this one bit. They are questioning the sloppy press conference given by our guys. then we said no f-16 was used but there is growing evidence that we did use it. if a question was asked about f-16 then all they had to do was say "no comment". was that too hard to say?
> 
> number 2, their stupid media has been giving all sorts of bollywood dramabazi, but their press conference was not wishy washy like ours. they havent gone back on their words like ours did. i'm having a hard time countering this on other fora.


You are being a little too kind to our Indian press conference. Damn press can't be well behaved ever.

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## atya

Riaz Hussain said:


> Hmmmm...
> 
> All I can say is that we screwed up bigtime in the press conference. We first said 2 planes shot and 'pilots' are with us one in a hospital. Then we went back on our word and changed the story to one pilot. This is very unprofessional. I have been talking to people from other countries(third party) on other fora and they dont like this one bit. They are questioning the sloppy press conference given by our guys. then we said no f-16 was used but there is growing evidence that we did use it. if a question was asked about f-16 then all they had to do was say "no comment". was that too hard to say?
> 
> number 2, their stupid media has been giving all sorts of bollywood dramabazi, but their press conference was not wishy washy like ours. they havent gone back on their words like ours did. i'm having a hard time countering this on other fora.


Which evidence of F16 involvement??


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## Telescopic Sight

atya said:


> Which evidence of F16 involvement??


amraam missile ?


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## sohail.ishaque

Telescopic Sight said:


> Sorry to tell you this. But your belief about 300 Indian soldiers is based on that phone call, no?
> Well,that is a hoax my friend. Ask those members of the paf who are in this forum itself.


Not on that phone call. the info was leaked before that. And you need to check the briefing that indians gave in which they accepted that their military installations has been hit but didn't give any details.

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## z9-ec

Riaz Hussain said:


> Hmmmm...
> 
> All I can say is that we screwed up bigtime in the press conference. We first said 2 planes shot and 'pilots' are with us one in a hospital. Then we went back on our word and changed the story to one pilot. This is very unprofessional. I have been talking to people from other countries(third party) on other fora and they dont like this one bit. They are questioning the sloppy press conference given by our guys. then we said no f-16 was used but there is growing evidence that we did use it. if a question was asked about f-16 then all they had to do was say "no comment". was that too hard to say?
> 
> number 2, their stupid media has been giving all sorts of bollywood dramabazi, but their press conference was not wishy washy like ours. they havent gone back on their words like ours did. i'm having a hard time countering this on other fora.



Judging by what you have posted. It seems you didn't bother to go through this thread. 

What you need to understand is JF-17 Thunders were the strike package and F-16 may well be the secondary defensive package.


However, as pointed out be fellow members here. The missile shown was NOT a part of PAF inventory. Not to mention, AIM-120C5 AMRAAM has a range of over 100 KMs it does not prove any of what you said.

Rather, this maybe, from the 1st engagement when INDIA ridiculed the world with it's ridiculous fantasy before PAF struck inside INDIA as their forces themselves mentioned today. We struck their bases INSIDE INDIA.

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## atya

Telescopic Sight said:


> amraam missile ?


The one which belongs to Taiwan

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## z9-ec

Telescopic Sight said:


> amraam missile ?


Read the above.


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## ziaulislam

Nutshell..everyone agrees on this 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1209686149206823

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## Riaz Hussain

z9-ec said:


> Judging by what you have posted. It seems you didn't bother to go through this thread.
> 
> What you need to understand is JF-17 Thunders were the strike package and F-16 may well be the secondary defensive package.
> 
> 
> However, as pointed out be fellow members here. The missile shown was NOT a part of PAF inventory. Not to mention, AIM-120C5 AMRAAM has a range of over 100 KMs it does not prove any of what you said.
> 
> Rather, this maybe, from the 1st engagement when INDIA ridiculed the world with it's ridiculous fantasy before PAF struck inside INDIA as their forces themselves mentioned today. We struck their bases INSIDE INDIA.



It doesn't work that way. You don't call escorts for a strike mission "a secondary defensive package" for whatever. Escorts are part of the group which has set out on that strike mission. without them the mission would not have been given the go ahead in the first place. no idiot plans a strike mission without escorts into a hot enemy territory swarming with CAP fighters and interceptors ready on the tarmac. when someone questions you whether f-16 were part of the mission, the answer is yes, not a no!

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## z9-ec

Riaz Hussain said:


> It doesn't work that way. You don't call escorts for a strike mission "a secondary defensive package" for whatever. Escorts are part of the group which has set out on that strike mission. without them the mission would not have been given the go ahead in the first place. no idiot plans a strike mission without escorts into a hot enemy territory swarming with CAP fighters and interceptors ready on the tarmac. when someone questions you whether f-16 were part of the mission, the answer is yes, not a no!



Let me guess, you are a better informed than our armed forces?

I know what are CAP missions. The entire mission was network centric engagement NOT like in the early 90s.

In conclusion, I know what I'm talking about. Regardless, the AIM-120C5 shown is NOT part of PAF inventory. Period.


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## SrNair

Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.

Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .


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## El Sidd

SrNair said:


> Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
> F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
> Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.
> 
> Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .



why not just say Tejas did it and MiG had technical issues and Crash landed. 

so much winning.

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## z9-ec

SrNair said:


> Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
> F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
> Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.
> 
> Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .



Yeah right. Your Chiefs have repeatedly lied over and over. With complete utter BS.

We on the other hand have given proof, pictures and HD videos on a platter. Also, you forgot the best part OUR TROPHY an Indian POW and your own air chief admitting air strikes on your front line Indian bases.

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## SrNair

z9-ec said:


> Yeah right. Your Chiefs have repeatedly lied over and over. With complete utter BS.
> 
> We on the other hand have given proof, pictures and HD videos on a platter. Also, you forgot the best part OUR TROPHY an Indian POW and your own air chief admitting air strikes on your front line air bases.



Remember this ,
We have violated your airspace ,went inside 80 km to KPK completed the mission and went back .
We thought your Radar system was better  
First your military denied and later forced to accept and told they will invite international journalist .
Our side press conference was always clear .
Yesterday ,first it was 3 pilots and 2 fighters,then 2 fighters and 2 pilot .
Now one a Commander that didnt care about his life .

Even after we violated your airspace 
No other nations said that India violated Pak Sovreignity not even you friend China .

And majority of them including US support us .OIC didnt even care Pak words .
World only hears India ,so who is lying ?

We can also take a lots of PoW if we want because you are next to our door.

Like our PM said again today .Pilot Project was success we need real one now .



Retired Troll said:


> why not just say Tejas did it and MiG had technical issues and Crash landed.
> 
> so much winning.



Because we are not mastered in lie like you .
If there is a destruction in aerial engagement we will inform same


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## z9-ec

SrNair said:


> Remember this ,
> We have violated your airspace ,went inside 80 km to KPK completed the mission and went back .
> We thought your Radar system was better
> First your military denied and later forced to accept and told they will invite international journalist .
> Our side press conference was always clear .
> Yesterday ,first it was 3 pilots and 2 fighters,then 2 fighters and 2 pilot .
> Now one a Commander that didnt care about his life .
> 
> Even after we violated your airspace
> No other nations said that India violated Pak Sovreignity not even you friend China .
> 
> And majority of them including US support us .OIC didnt even care Pak words .
> World only hears India ,so who is lying ?
> 
> We can also take a lots of PoW if we want because you are next to our door.
> 
> Like our PM said again today .Pilot Project was success we need real one now .
> 
> 
> 
> Because we are not mastered in lie like you .
> If there is a destruction in aerial engagement we will inform same





Here's your answer:








INDIAN WING COMMANDER POW.

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## Riaz Hussain

z9-ec said:


> Let me guess, you are a better informed than our armed forces?
> 
> I know what are CAP missions. The entire mission was network centric engagement NOT like in the early 90s.
> 
> In conclusion, I know what I'm talking about. Regardless, the AIM-120C5 shown is NOT part of PAF inventory. Period.


There is no "network centric engagement". Until the enemy airforce is neutralized and total air superiority is brought about in the theater, there will always be escorts and wild weasels. that's a standard everywhere. you dont send your boys into a snake pit hoping some cap fighters are out there and they will abandon their patrol route for this strike mission's escort. that's silly and stupid.
all he had to say was "no comment" or "its confidential" or anything which doesn't come back to haunt us.


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## TheDarkKnight

SrNair said:


> Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
> F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
> Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.
> 
> Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .


If we are to even believe your claim of amraam, it only proves the *use* of F16 at a certain time and not the *loss* of one - for the loss you need substantial evidence that you haven’t produced. An urdu idiom comes to mind “dum ka baal sa haathi banana” which literally translates to “to make an elephant from its tail’s hair”

Now about the use of F16s, if we take DG ISPRs statement he said F16s were not used in the *specific* offensive, so the AMRAAMM use either makes that DG ISPR calcification false if used in the offense OR that the F16s were used in some other scenario and not in that specific offensive assault accross LOC. Maybe DG ISPR just wanted to state the later case, that F16s were not used in an aggressive manner against India accross LOC to avoid an issue with US for spare supply and any potential future deals.

Anyway none of your arguments and evidences provided so far proves the loss. I am quite sure we can do a simple count of F16s once the situation cools down, and you are a secular democracy so I dare you to do the same in India. F16s are ITAR controlled US equipment, and the US govt and Lockheed Martin will definitely like to know whether we have all the equipment with us or not (ie not supplied to China for reverse engineering) so there is no hiding of an F16 loss for PAF my friend.

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## z9-ec

Riaz Hussain said:


> There is no "network centric engagement". Until the enemy airforce is neutralized and total air superiority is brought about in the theater, there will always be escorts and wild weasels. that's a standard everywhere. you dont send your boys into a snake pit hoping some cap fighters are out there and they will abandon their patrol route for this strike mission's escort. that's silly and stupid.
> all he had to say was "no comment" or "its confidential" or anything which doesn't come back to haunt us.



Here's your reply:

As posted by fellow member on another thread.






Again, the AIM-120C5 shown IS NOT part of PAF inventory.


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## SrNair

z9-ec said:


> Here's your answer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INDIAN WING COMMANDER POW.



Yup .We knows .
That is what a brave officer will do .
He shot down one of your F 16 and he was captured because of his bravery.

And everyone knows Geneva Conventiin can apply only during War time .
There was no war but released within one day .
Even I am amazed about Indias capability now .
That much influence and power we have now


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## Areesh

SrNair said:


> He shot down one of your F 16



No he didn't


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## z9-ec

SrNair said:


> Yup .We knows .
> That is what a brave officer will do .
> He shot down one of your F 16 and he was captured because of his bravery.
> 
> And everyone knows Geneva Conventiin can apply only during War time .
> There was no war but released within one day .
> Even I am amazed about Indias capability now .
> That much influence and power we have now




PROVE IT! where's your chief with EVIDENCE?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

SrNair said:


> Yup .We knows .
> That is what a brave officer will do .
> He shot down one of your F 16 and he was captured because of his bravery.
> 
> And everyone knows Geneva Conventiin can apply only during War time .
> There was no war but released within one day .
> Even I am amazed about Indias capability now .
> That much influence and power we have now






Evidence of the F-16 being shot down? IF what you say is true, remember to post the links here.

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## Avicenna

SrNair said:


> Yup .We knows .
> That is what a brave officer will do .
> He shot down one of your F 16 and he was captured because of his bravery.
> 
> And everyone knows Geneva Conventiin can apply only during War time .
> There was no war but released within one day .
> Even I am amazed about Indias capability now .
> That much influence and power we have now



Why are Indians being so delusional?

Your news media is a joke!

And so was your last post!

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## Riaz Hussain

SrNair said:


> Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
> F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
> Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.
> 
> Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .


no they didn't. all you provided is proof of an amraam, which in the best case scenario for you, proves paf lied of not using f-16s. your service chiefs are further extrapolating that by implying since paf lied it must because they dont want to admit losing an aircraft, but let me remind you the falcons come with heavy strings attached, and not to mention the amraams, which states that we cannot use them without approval from the U.S. So the lie was told because telling the truth would mean breaking the agreement and that's not a good thing.

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## SrNair

TheDarkKnight said:


> If we are to even believe your claim of amraam, it only proves the *use* of F16 at a certain time and not the *loss* of one - for the loss you need substantial evidence that you haven’t produced. An urdu idiom comes to mind “dum ka baal sa haathi banana” which literally translates to “to make an elephant from its tail’s hair”
> Now about the use of F16s, if we take DG ISPRs statement he said F16s were not used in the offenaive, so the AMRAAMM use either makes that DG ISPR calcification false if used in the offense OR that the F16s were used in some other scenario and not in that specific offensive assault accross LOC; maybe DG ISPR just wanted to state the later case that F16s were not used in an aggressive manner against India accross LOC to not create an issue with US for us.
> 
> Anyway none of this proves the loss if you like think we used F16s in the attack - we can do a simple count of F16s once the situation cool, you are a secular democracy ao I dare you to do the same in India. F16s are ITAR controlled US equipment, and the US govt and Lockheed Martin will definitely like to know whether we have all the equipment with us or not (ie not supplied to China for reverse engineering) so there is no hiding my friend.
> 
> I have trust with the Armed forces - we have not hidden our thousands of soldiers deaths in WOT and also not covered the deatruction of much more prized aircrafts like Erieye and Orion - so truth will come out eventually.



What about the one you bought from Jordan ?
About DG ISPR.
He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
How can we trust that source?



Riaz Hussain said:


> no they didn't. all you provided is proof of an amraam, which in the best case scenario for you, proves paf lied of not using f-16s. your service chiefs are further extrapolating that by implying since paf lied it must because they dont want to admit losing an aircraft, but let me remind you the falcons come with heavy strings attached, and not to mention the amraams, which states that we cannot use them without approval from the U.S. So the lie was told because telling the truth would mean breaking the agreement and that's not a good thing.



What about the one you purchased from Jordan in 2015 ,If I am not wrong ?
It also covered under US strings


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## Riaz Hussain

z9-ec said:


> Here's your reply:
> 
> As posted by fellow member on another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the AIM-120C5 shown IS NOT part of PAF inventory.


what is that supposed to prove?
you do not approve a strike mission without escort when air superiority hasn't been achieved period.



SrNair said:


> What about the one you bought from Jordan ?
> About DG ISPR.
> He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
> How can we trust that source?
> 
> 
> 
> What about the one you purchased from Jordan in 2015 ,If I am not wrong ?
> It also covered under US strings


every fuckin american thing comes with strings. even israeli airforce cannot sell or modify their american fighters without a nod from them.

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## ziaulislam

SrNair said:


> Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
> F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
> Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.
> 
> Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .


Of this narrative works india will deescalate as modi can go with chest thumping 

Doesnt need to work in international media they wont believe it as long as india believe it

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## z9-ec

Riaz Hussain said:


> what is that supposed to prove?
> you do not approve a strike mission without escort when air superiority hasn't been achieved period.



I never said there was NO ESCORT. 

Read the ARMAMENT part.


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## TheDarkKnight

SrNair said:


> What about the one you bought from Jordan ?


All US origin equipment is treated the same - Foreign third party sales are also approved by US.

As I said we definitely can park all our F16s and count it for the world or atleast the Americans will do the counting in their scheduled checks as per agreements.


SrNair said:


> About DG ISPR.
> He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
> How can we *trust* that source?


Initially India claimed no loss and all pilots accounted for, and then IAF pilot arrest was publicly released - how do you trust your source then?

This is a separate discussion but I have given my opinion here on the changes in pilot count:
#BREAKING: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR


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## Riaz Hussain

z9-ec said:


> I never said there was NO ESCORT.
> 
> Read the ARMAMENT part.


I know what thunders are capable of.
let me remind you once you load bombs on to a fighters it simply cannot maneuver that well. that's why when threatened, strike fighters drop their payload/external fuel tanks and then either engage the enemy fighters or egress out of there.
basically there will be escorts(multirole fighters with Air-Air payloads or dedicated air superiority fighters) and they will be part of the strike mission even-though they are not the ones doing the striking/bombing.



TheDarkKnight said:


> All US origin equipment is treated the same - Foreign third party sales are also approved by US.
> 
> As I said we definitely can park all our F16s and count it for the world or atleast the Americans will do the counting in their scheduled checks as per agreements.
> 
> Initially India claimed no loss and all pilots accounted for, and then IAF pilot arrest was publicly released - how do you trust your source then?
> 
> This is a separate discussion but I have given my opinion here on the changes in pilot count:
> #BREAKING: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR


that's the difference. india did not claim they did not lose any aircrafts. it was their stupid media which did. their official statement never said they didnt lose any aircraft. while we on the other hand were officially giving incorrect statements as to how many pilots we had in our custody.


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## Ali_Baba

*Things Learnt.*
1 - PAFs rules of engagement(ROE) need to be changed. They allow India to get the initiative and force PAF to react, rather than stopping the issue stone cold dead. I hope PAF have learned their lesson and will change their ROE to fit the era we live in, and not some old dated notion of gentlemanly rules of the game.
Alot of bother could have been saved, if the Indias were convinced that PAF WILL shoot them down.
2 - More long range SAMs in the S400 class are required. PAF jets cannot be everywhere all the time. SAMs allow for a more persistent anti-aircraft denial capability.
3 - PAF needs to increase the number of squadrons/aircraft she has. PAF needs be more top heavy when compared to PA or PN. Next incident will start in the air, just like this one. If PAF has more aircraft, then we can stop it in the air. if PAF are weak, then the issue could spread further afield.
4 - I take back my comments about the ACM of PAF. He can keep his job. I do still think, he needs to visit action item 9 and formulate and execute a plan on those ideas.
5 - Actionable deterrence deters India(ergo a punch in the face from time to time). The strike by PAF bought home the message to Modi & Co that everytime they have political issues, a "surgical strike" against Pakistan an is not the answer to get voters to vote for you any more.
6 - IAF lies untell presented with the truth..
7 - GOI Lies untell presented with the truth.

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## soundHound

AsianUnion said:


> Ok ISPR was lying, and it was PAF dual pilots F16, tell me one thing Indian air chief and IAF must have footage of shoot out, they must have lock on. Atleast show proof like the whole world knows and seen the proof.
> 
> Pakistan will be busted out in open for all to see!!! Simple. Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence not Indian media lies.



Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?


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## SQ8

soundHound said:


> Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?


We prefer living breathing proof. 
Your press conference is becoming a joke in military circles worldwide.

If there are radar signatures, one can present that video.

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## AsianLion

soundHound said:


> Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?



When you have an Indian Pilot monkey locked down and shot down jet inside Pakistan you asking for a video kill shot, i am asking you to show one video kill shot of Pak F16 ur Tri chief claimed to proof his point.

Let me tell you Mirages and JF17s were strike package and F16s were not part of offensive but escort missions.

You should be begging like 1.2 b indians are for ur shot down pilot to be returned back and be thankful to Pakistan.

Nice to see Indian copyin my words “Baat Kr f*** with facts and evidence when ur media has made you high on cow steroids. you have none no little evidence shown of a actual piece of F16 metal then empty bakwas. Show the radar signatures and yet it doesnot show downing a F16 which everyone is asking from India.

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## Thorough Pro

Rich coming from a citizen of 1.3 billion psychos



Jackdaws said:


> Yawn. You can ask Sushma Swaraj for a medical visa for your psych eval. We will go together.


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## AsianLion

Busted Full video of Pakistani shot Mig-21 which indian claimed as F16 inside Pakistani LOC.

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## Jammer

pakdefender said:


> Wow they have been reduced to showing parts of ordnance to salvage their totally broken pride , this pic should be put in the records , reduced to showing debris as some kind of face saving
> 
> From denial of first not losing any aircraft , to not losing in air to air combat , they were peddling stories that ground fire brought down the aircraft to showing debris as proof of their air to air loss  this is EPIC !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 543018


You know what, I thought about it and resisted and waited and based on the information I have, I would have resigned before I had to show that spent missile as the only evidence of a PAF plane being shot down. I feel bad for the young IAF pilots that have to cling onto a lie. They were baited, they interdicted, and they got there clocks cleaned, as simple as that! Just like we have practiced a thousand times while doing the CCS and other exercises.

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## Ultima Thule

arbit said:


> The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101141807054807040


go **** off # 19 sqn is oldest of F-16 and no capability of firing Amraam @Arbiter



arbit said:


> The trap thing is accepted. Smart move actually. You lost one jet though, shot down by a Mig 21. The shot out jet was F-16. The 'use' of which at least was established recently. which your PAF has denied so vehemently until recently.
> Again I reiterate missiles cannot be integrated on a jet of your choice unless the OEM helps out and US agreeing to share codes to integrate that missile on a jet with Chinese avionics, radar etc are slim, to put it mildly.
> 
> So for fanbois claiming it was a JF-17 shooting AIM. shhh them
> 
> If air war breaks out then be sure of one thing, this smart move won't work twice and all your planes will have to do actual dogfights for establishing air supremacy. There won't be any place to turn back to.





arbit said:


> My point exactly. You guys are not admitting that F-16 were used, but an AIM WAS fired. It can only be fired by F-16. So the lie gets caught.
> And please don't tell me you integrated the AIM on a jet with chinese avionics and radar!
> 
> PAF knows the truth now. Only their morale matters. Yahoos on the net can do all the chest thumping they want. The objective has been achieved.


suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return


soundHound said:


> 2 more pilots ejected(f16),


And what a proof that it was a F-16D it also might be possible that it was MKI @soundHound 


SrNair said:


> Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
> F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
> Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
> Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .





SrNair said:


> He shot down one of your F 16


suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return


SrNair said:


> What about the one you bought from Jordan ?
> About DG ISPR.
> He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
> How can we trust that source?





SrNair said:


> What about the one you purchased from Jordan in 2015 ,If I am not wrong ?
> It also covered under US strings


suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return


soundHound said:


> Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?


suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return

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## denel

Jammer said:


> You know what, I thought about it and resisted and waited and based on the information I have, I would have resigned before I had to show that spent missile as the only evidence of a PAF plane being shot down. I feel bad for the young IAF pilots that have to cling onto a lie. They were baited, they interdicted, and they got there clocks cleaned, as simple as that! Just like we have practiced a thousand times while doing the CCS and other exercises.


I dont blame the pilots; it is their stupid illiterate politicians who want to use their pilots as cannon fodder to gain points to ensure people are rilled up so that they can put votes into the ballot boxes and leveraging a corrupted media to fuel the stupid fire. If you care to examine - the pilot is south indian - he is respectful and will honour his word; the others - sorry will change colours like cameleons.

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## Jammer

denel said:


> I dont blame the pilots; it is their stupid illiterate politicians who want to use their pilots as cannon fodder to gain points to ensure people are rilled up so that they can put votes into the ballot boxes and leveraging a corrupted media to fuel the stupid fire. If you care to examine - the pilot is south indian - he is respectful and will honour his word; the others - sorry will change colours like cameleons.


The pilot is a through gentleman, just as both India and Pakistan's air warriors (or should I say gentlemen cadets) are supposed to be, I recognized that immediately, he handled himself very well under the "media displayed" recording. So long story short, I never questioned the integrity of the pilot (no matter where he is from, why does it matter if he is south Indian?).

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## alikazmi007

You know what I'll just say it, I know many of you are itching to say it,

*Indians don't make good Fighter Pilots, BUT they make up with making really slutty item songs and fake valor movies! Hats off to them...*

their hearts in the right place though

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## GeraltofRivia

Dubious said:


> Where did China say or use those words? Last we heard they were enjoying the treat of seeing 2 IAF aircrafts gunned down!


Quietly toast the effectiveness of the fragment warhead of SD-10, which may have just seen its first real action since birth. Based the photos of the debris, the missile cut the plane into 2 pieces and they fall in different places... you can’t help relating to this missile.

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## GriffinsRule

300 new pages on this thread since yesterday ... I cant


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## NA71

SrNair said:


> Yup .We knows .
> That is what a brave officer will do .
> He shot down one of your F 16 and he was captured because of his bravery.
> 
> And everyone knows Geneva Conventiin can apply only during War time .
> There was no war but released within one day .
> Even I am amazed about Indias capability now .
> That much influence and power we have now


Indias CAPABILITY? few trees burnt by IAF, two jets down by the enemy, pilot(s) arrested, our PM oders release of your pilot, IAF failed press conference like kids function party, no proof of F-16, Endless lies. is this you talking about?

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## soundHound

Oscar said:


> We prefer living breathing proof.
> Your press conference is becoming a joke in military circles worldwide.
> 
> If there are radar signatures, one can present that video.



Let me be clear here, give me link where you have seen a country sharing enemeis radar signature, what you are asking is to divulge secret what do you think Pakistan will do after seeing those electronic signatures?



AsianUnion said:


> When you have an Indian Pilot monkey locked down and shot down jet inside Pakistan you asking for a video kill shot, i am asking you to show one video kill shot of Pak F16 ur Tri chief claimed to proof his point.
> 
> Let me tell you Mirages and JF17s were strike package and F16s were not part of offensive but escort missions.
> 
> You should be begging like 1.2 b indians are for ur shot down pilot to be returned back and be thankful to Pakistan.
> 
> Nice to see Indian copyin my words “Baat Kr f*** with facts and evidence when ur media has made you high on cow steroids. you have none no little evidence shown of a actual piece of F16 metal then empty bakwas. Show the radar signatures and yet it doesnot show downing a F16 which everyone is asking from India.



All those proof of sales of AIM available in public domain are false? Do you think people are gullible like you?



pakistanipower said:


> go **** off # 19 sqn is oldest of F-16 and no capability of firing Amraam @Arbiter
> 
> 
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
> And what a proof that it was a F-16D it also might be possible that it was MKI @soundHound
> 
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
> 
> 
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return




See man, Pakistan has long history of disowing there own, for years they disowned there own soldiers who dies during Kargil, they disonwed the claim that Osama was in pakistan.

Do you really think anyone will trust what your ispr says? For good sake they changed there statements zillion times over period of a day.

Last, if it was another Indian jet, pictures would been out by now, we don't hide we honour.

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## Ultima Thule

soundHound said:


> See man, Pakistan has long history of disowing there own, for years they disowned there own soldiers who dies during Kargil, they disonwed the claim that Osama was in pakistan.
> 
> Do you really think anyone will trust what your ispr says? For good sake they changed there statements zillion times over period of a day.
> 
> Last, if it was another Indian jet, pictures would been out by now, we don't hide we honour.


Yes you hide , your country/religion believes in lies and deceptions, you're fully humiliated and shameless @soundHound


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## Dr. Abdul Basit

So indians do write with marker on parts inside the engine, no wonder why these machines keep falling from the sky


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## soundHound

pakistanipower said:


> Yes you hide , your country/religion believes in lies and deceptions, you're fully humiliated and shameless @soundHound



I believe you get all your knowledge from your stupid media, WhatsApp forwards and Twitter feed, I shouldn't have entertained you but again, I was not able to digest all the filth being spread here. Anyway whatever floats your boat world is anyway watching.

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## Ultima Thule

soundHound said:


> I believe you get all your knowledge from your stupid media, WhatsApp forwards and Twitter feed, I shouldn't have entertained you but again, I was not able to digest all the filth being spread here. Anyway whatever floats your boat world is anyway watching.


We proofs do you have a proof of donning of F-16 by bison you retard head, world is reporting that IAF 2 jet down 3 pilots captured 2 dead 1 in custody, get a hike kid @soundHound


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## GriffinsRule

Their proof is sitting in Pakistan hahaha. One must ask that how do they know that the shot down Mig-21 is the ace that got the F-16? 
I was reading on the rats forum and gloating over their explanations over the Mig-21 turkey shoot ... that it must have had an engine failure due to exhaust gasses from the missile entering the engine! 
Proof? It also happened to the Mig-27 that was shot down in Kargil and crashed in Pakistan ... again how do they know these forensic details when the wreckage is in Pakistan is beyond my cognitive ability.

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## Alpha1

I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
Su-30 MKI?
@MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM

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## Bilal Khan 777

When Pakistani pilots fly, they fly with the spirit of Minhas, Rafiqui, Middle-coat, Alam, Munir, Alauddin, Yunus, Iqbal, Saifullah, Mushaf and many like them. Their souls guide the Mujahids, as each duty pilot prepares himself and herself mentally and in their heart to give their life for Pakistan, and then they punch the engine and start the roll.

What you saw in the J&K reminds me of the greats mentioned and not mentioned here. It reminded me of how Nosey planned a morning attack and gave India a beating. It reminded me of the great legacy that we left behind, the promise of every PAF officer and men to give it their best.

You cannot change this sentiment by petty bickering in the media. This is our heart and soul, and this is the Pakistan Air Force you are dealing with.

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## Cookie Monster

Serious Carrey said:


> Any news favoring India is fake and any news favoring Pakistan is a fact


Lol do u understand how FACTS work? I'll give u some examples...let's see if u can spot the difference between FACTS and CLAIMS

Pictures of destroyed IAF Mig21 - FACT
No pictures of destroyed PAF F16 - CLAIM
Captured Indian Pilot's images/videos - FACT
No pictures/videos of IAF killing 300 terrorists - CLAIM
Pakistan claimed carrying out raids in IOK...India confirmed that its military installations were bombed - FACT

All of Indian claims of bombing/killing terrorist inside Pak, destroying PAF F16s and other such martial prowess are only that...just claims. Let me know if u need more help differentiating between claims and facts...I'd be happy to help u with such basic concepts.

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## Maxpane

Alpha1 said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
> Su-30 MKI?
> @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM


sir this is the unique video

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## patriotpakistan

gambit said:


> And what interests are there to Pakistan to torture the Indians, eh? Have you not learned the lessons of Gitmo where it turned the US inside out, shamed a presidency, the tainted the entire country? I speak on this issue from the perspective of a veteran, someone who made out his will before deployments, stood next to a live nuclear bomb, and graduated from SERE. What have you done?



My reply was to your calls of releasing the prisoner and your rather stupid use of bullying language. Now what I do is none of your business. Now Ad hominem all you want till you're out of breath.


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## Maxpane

Alpha1 said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
> Su-30 MKI?
> @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM


@Bilal Khan 777 sir @Tps43 @Mentee

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## Bilal Khan 777

Alpha1 said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
> Su-30 MKI?
> @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM



DH Fox 3. Plane catching fire, horizontal spin & burning wreckage.Twin Ejection. Separation. Two parachutes.

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## mshan44



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## Ali0625

Alpha1 said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
> Su-30 MKI?
> @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM



Bloody Indians will call it f-16. Copy my saying.


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## Bilal Khan 777

Ali0625 said:


> Bloody Indians will call it f-16. Copy my saying.



Looking at the Sun Angle and time, people from Pakistani administered Asad J&K filled this to the east, placing this over Indian administer occupied J&K, coinciding with the wreckage found or not found over India till now.

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## Cool_Soldier

_I am just wondering, AWACS have capability to identify type of plane detected by its Radar and even what type of weapons they are carrying.

Then why not, using that data to disclose the other type of plane shot down with in IOK area._


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## Ali0625

just got some very useful fact from video. it will help a lot just 5 mins i need to post



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Looking at the Sun Angle and time, people from Pakistani administered Asad J&K filled this to the east, placing this over Indian administer occupied J&K, coinciding with the wreckage found or not found over India till now.




you helped me alot , I've found something from the video, just 5mins.


very important

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## Falcon26

Cookie Monster said:


> Lol do u understand how FACTS work? I'll give u some examples...let's see if u can spot the difference between FACTS and CLAIMS
> 
> Pictures of destroyed IAF Mig21 - FACT
> No pictures of destroyed PAF F16 - CLAIM
> Captured Indian Pilot's images/videos - FACT
> No pictures/videos of IAF killing 300 terrorists - CLAIM
> Pakistan claimed carrying out raids in IOK...India confirmed that its military installations were bombed - FACT
> 
> All of Indian claims of bombing/killing terrorist inside Pak, destroying PAF F16s and other such martial prowess are only that...just claims. Let me know if u need more help differentiating between claims and facts...I'd be happy to help u with such basic concepts.



Not claims but open lies. The entire OSINT experts are mocking them on social media

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## GriffinsRule

Cool_Soldier said:


> _I am just wondering, AWACS have capability to identify type of plane detected by its Radar and even what type of weapons they are carrying.
> 
> Then why not, using that data to disclose the other type of plane shot down with in IOK area._



Why would we do that and disclose classified information/ability of our AWACS? Just to make people feel better on Twitter and Facebook?

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## CHACHA"G"

Alpha1 said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
> Su-30 MKI?
> @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM


Hum nay giraya hai (we shoot it down) ,,,,,, Two sounds of ejection seats ( mean 2 piolets) , People saying 2 piolets are coming down from 1 plane...…. Jet going down in IOK, look big ……… (Su-30 or Mig-29 ) ………………………. Latest video , day time ,,
lol
@waz , @Oscar , @Bilal Khan 777 , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) , @gambit , @HRK , , @MastanKhan , @Sugarcane , @Hodor , @Windjammer , @The Eagle , @Tps43 , @graphican , @Imran Khan , @Mentee , @Signalian
And all other who can look at video and give some info …………

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## patriotpakistan

TheDarkKnight said:


> If we are to even believe your claim of amraam, it only proves the *use* of F16 at a certain time and not the *loss* of one - for the loss you need substantial evidence that you haven’t produced. An urdu idiom comes to mind “dum ka baal sa haathi banana” which literally translates to “to make an elephant from its tail’s hair”
> 
> Now about the use of F16s, if we take DG ISPRs statement he said *F16s were not used in the specific offensive*, so the AMRAAMM use either makes that DG ISPR calcification false if used in the offense OR that the F16s were used in some other scenario and not in that specific offensive assault accross LOC. Maybe DG ISPR just wanted to state the later case, that F16s were not used in an aggressive manner against India accross LOC to avoid an issue with US for spare supply and any potential future deals.
> 
> Anyway none of your arguments and evidences provided so far proves the loss. I am quite sure we can do a simple count of F16s once the situation cools down, and you are a secular democracy so I dare you to do the same in India. F16s are ITAR controlled US equipment, and the US govt and Lockheed Martin will definitely like to know whether we have all the equipment with us or not (ie not supplied to China for reverse engineering) so there is no hiding of an F16 loss for PAF my friend.



While I think that ISPR isn't lying that F-16s were not used in that specific offensive, an AMRAAM still somehow ended up in India. I think I can shed some light on that mystery:

*The AMRAAM was from the previous encounter with the Mirage 2000s the day before.*

1 day before Mr. Varthaman was shot down, when the F-16 CAP gave chase to the Mirage 2000 strike package, they fired an AMRAAM at the retreating intruders using a lock-on after launch tactic that didn't work (due to terrain masking in the steep local terrain which the Mirage 2000 employed as a defensive measure. Point of note: The Mirage type aircraft are very good at flying very low level and have been employed in such roles by a variety of airforces, I won't go into all the reasons why._ i.e just look at how Pakistan & Israel have employed Mirages_). So coming back to the topic, *the AMRAAM was fired when the F-16s gave chase to the retreating intruders but ended up as a lawn dart inside Indian territory* without hitting any Mirage 2000. Thats the pieces of which that the Indian propaganda machine has been parading all day. Mystery solved. You're welcome folks.

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## mshan44

*Modi is milking the present situation to the extreme: Former RAW chief AS Dulat on the Balakot strikes*

https://caravanmagazine.in/conflict/as-dulat-on-india-pakistan-tensions


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## Bilal Khan 777

patriotpakistan said:


> While I think that ISPR isn't lying that F-16s were not used in that specific offensive, an AMRAAM still somehow ended up in India. I think I can shed some light on that mystery:
> 
> *The AMRAAM was from the previous encounter with the Mirage 2000s the day before.*
> 
> 1 day before Mr. Varthaman was shot down, when the F-16 CAP gave chase to the Mirage 2000 strike package, they fired an AMRAAM at the retreating intruders using a lock-on after launch tactic that didn't work (due to terrain masking in the steep local terrain which the Mirage 2000 employed as a defensive measure. Point of note: The Mirage type aircraft are very good at flying very low level and have been employed in such roles by a variety of airforces, I won't go into all the reasons why._ i.e just look at how Pakistan & Israel have employed Mirages_). So coming back to the topic, *the AMRAAM was fired when the F-16s gave chase to the retreating intruders but ended up as a lawn dart inside Indian territory* without hitting any Mirage 2000. Thats the pieces of which that the Indian propaganda machine has been parading all day. Mystery solved. You're welcome folks.



What makes you think the Mirage 2000 was NOT hit?

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## moon_light

SrNair said:


> What about the one you bought from Jordan ?
> What about the one you purchased from Jordan in 2015 ,If I am not wrong ?
> It also covered under US strings


That is a myth
Indian claim:





However, that part belongs to Mig-21










Indian tweet claims this:





But unfortunately for them, all Pakistan F-16 use F-100PW229 and F-100PW200 engine

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## Cool_Soldier

New Report suggests that serial number shown on Missile was sold to Taiwan.


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## patriotpakistan

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> What makes you think the Mirage 2000 was NOT hit?



Excellent point! Maybe it was indeed damaged  Hence the Indian ground search and recovery for the AMRAAM missile parts for evidence collection.

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## Bilal Khan 777

patriotpakistan said:


> Excellent point! Maybe it was indeed damaged  Hence the Indian ground search and recovery for the AMRAAM missile parts for evidence collection.



The Ammram fragment that you see is a "Spent" Casing.

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## Ali0625

Everyone look carefully.

In the screenshot from video above notice the sun light. On the areas.






And note the shadows too in the same picture. And the time was close to 10am when news broke

So look the sun is moving forward ie in the front is West.

If you say sun is moving from right to left ,thats not true in second picture, you can see that the right portion of tree is more dense coloured with more leaves, while left portion is dull with less leaves.





So the sun is moving forward and the PLANE IS FALLING BETWEEN WEST AND NORTH-WEST.

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## patriotpakistan

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> The Ammram fragment that you see is a "Spent" Casing.



Indeed. I'm thinking a nearby Indian post saw the incident and might have been nearby the falling missile casing to see it and collect it along with other miscellaneous Mirage parts that might have ended up on the ground


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## CHACHA"G"

Ali0625 said:


> Everyone look carefully.
> 
> In the screenshot from video above notice the sun light. On the areas.
> View attachment 543207
> 
> 
> And note the shadows too in the same picture. And the time was close to 10am when news broke
> 
> So look the sun is moving forward ie in the front is West.
> 
> If you say sun is moving from right to left ,thats not true in second picture, you can see that the right portion of tree is more dense coloured with more leaves, while left portion is dull with less leaves.
> 
> View attachment 543209
> 
> So the sun is moving forward and the PLANE IS FALLING BETWEEN WEST AND NORTH-WEST.


lol does that mean IOK...………………….. I am very bad in esat west thingiiiii

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## Ali0625

CHACHA"G" said:


> lol does that mean IOK...………………….. I am very bad in esat west thingiiiii


 
means away from IOK west is towards Afghanistan.

but still it doesn't mean that it fell in azad Kashmir. but one thing is sure, it fell very close to border. so the iok aircraft is this dual seater

please look carefully, that's a great clue about dual seater indian aircraft that it was a mig 29 or su 30 and the abhi might be the ejected one

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## CHACHA"G"

Ali0625 said:


> means away from IOK west is towards Afghanistan.
> 
> but still it doesn't mean that it fell in azad Kashmir. but one thing is sure, it fell very close to border. so the iok aircraft is this dual seater
> 
> please look carefully, that's a great clue about dual seater indian aircraft that it was a mig 29 or su 30 and the abhi might be the ejected one


So , Big bird , twin engine (may be Su-30) 2 piolets came out same time.... Bird in IOK..... Great news bro,,,,.
But on Abhi …….. He was flying Mig-21 ,,,,,,,, unless he(in air) or someone(on ground) changed his personal belongings..

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## Telescopic Sight

Ali0625 said:


> Everyone look carefully.
> 
> In the screenshot from video above notice the sun light. On the areas.
> View attachment 543207
> 
> 
> And note the shadows too in the same picture. And the time was close to 10am when news broke
> 
> So look the sun is moving forward ie in the front is West.
> 
> If you say sun is moving from right to left ,thats not true in second picture, you can see that the right portion of tree is more dense coloured with more leaves, while left portion is dull with less leaves.
> 
> View attachment 543209
> 
> So the sun is moving forward and the PLANE IS FALLING BETWEEN WEST AND NORTH-WEST.



Impressive analysis. Can't see any flaw in it. 

BTW, I just am unable to see 2 chutes . I see 1 chute only. And the falling debris. Can you help me ?

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## GriffinsRule

Telescopic Sight said:


> Impressive analysis. Can't see any flaw in it.
> 
> BTW, I just am unable to see 2 chutes . I see 1 chute only. And the falling debris. Can you help me ?


Learn the language and you will understand what the film makers are saying

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## Ali0625

Telescopic Sight said:


> Impressive analysis. Can't see any flaw in it.
> 
> BTW, I just am unable to see 2 chutes . I see 1 chute only. And the falling debris. Can you help me ?



what i really think, the second chute didn't open. There were two bcs people are saying in video that two pilots. Also there are two ejection sounds

also in video, you can find the white smoke cloud after bvr hit it before catching fire. 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-394#post-11227017

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## untitled

Considering the current situation, can we have the words "BREAKING" removed from this thread title? Please?


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## Dazzler

-

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## Max Pain

Mukunda Murthi Rao said:


> We claim the f16 went down in your territory, so it is difficult to ascertain that claim
> 
> However, you claim to have shot down two aircrafts. You have shown the wreckage of one and parraded its pilot, what about the other?



not difficult, impossible.

but the second part of your reply is right,
so Id take the one that actually has the irrefutable proof of that pilot as well as the wreckage. this simply cant be denied.


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## Ultima Thule

Dazzler said:


> Suddenly, the skies of Karachi are busy again. Saw four ship formation minutes ago.


 expected Attack from sea by IN??? and which jets you did saw @Dazzler


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## mshan44




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## Dazzler

pakistanipower said:


> expected Attack from sea by IN??? and which jets you did saw @Dazzler



Red alert is still in place. Vigilance continues. They are keeping an eye on IN for almost 48 hours nonstop.

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## Ultima Thule

Dazzler said:


> Red alert is still in place. Vigilance continues. They are keeping an eye on IN for almost 48 hours nonstop.


Can you confirm which jets were JF-17 Mirages or F-7 @Dazzler


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## Dazzler

pakistanipower said:


> Can you confirm which jets were JF-17 Mirages or F-7 @Dazzler



Thunders and mirages

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## TheDarkKnight

Dazzler said:


> Suddenly, the skies ....


Why are you posting such precise almost real time info? Let Indian radars figure out how many and when these aircrafts take off and land for them.

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## Riz

Thunders are roaring all over 100km far from the capital.. Fully loaded... I think they arw going to **** IAF again..


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## ARMalik

I seriously hope for India's sake that they *DO NOT send any *ships towards Pakistan. If these ships enter Pakistan's EEZ, I am afraid we will see sinking of at *least one ship *if not the whole flotilla. These chipmonks need to understand this is not bollywood for God's sake.

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## pzfz

moon_light said:


> Indian tweet claims this:



That part isn't even part of the engine. NOT an engine cowling. Immaterial whether it's a GE or PW. It's neither.


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## Pakhtoon yum

Dazzler said:


> Suddenly, the skies of Karachi are busy again. Saw four ship formation minutes ago.


Bruh we've covered this, dont share!



ARMalik said:


> I seriously hope for India's sake that they *DO NOT send any *ships towards Pakistan. If these ships enter Pakistan's EEZ, I am afraid we will see sinking of at *least one ship *if not the whole flotilla. These chipmonks need to understand this is not bollywood for God's sake.


Why would u say this? Is something happening?


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## Dazzler

For those who are worrying about a blockade and what not, there is an elaborate plan put forward by PN/PAF this time. 

Let them guess, but they will not dare come close. If they do, they'll get it.

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## Maxpane

we want peace . if they want a mess then be it

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## Pakhtoon yum

Dazzler said:


> For those who are worrying about a blockade and what not, there is an elaborate plan put forward by PN/PAF this time.
> 
> Let them guess, but they will not dare come close. If they do, they'll get it.


Bruh do stay quiet


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## Dazzler

TheDarkKnight said:


> Why are you posting such precise almost real time info? Let Indian radars figure out how many and when these aircrafts take off and land for them.



Calm down brother 

Any body can see them flying around. No secret info has been, or will be shared.


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## Maxpane

Dazzler said:


> Calm down brother
> 
> Any body can see them flying around. No secret info has been, or will be shared.


any suggestion for us , sir?


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## Sine Nomine

Please don't post any movement of forces.A single clue can help enemy see a bigger picture.

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## cirr

Cool_Soldier said:


> New Report suggests that serial number shown on Missile was sold to Taiwan.

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## Dazzler

Maxpane said:


> any suggestion for us , sir?



Relax, have faith in your LORD, and armed forces. Indians are trying to lure us into warmongering but are scared to death after PAF's surgical strikes. Their political leadership does not care, and military leadership is confused. No need to worry, things under control.


And, dont get too much into those random tweets.

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## waz

Oh dear it seems the Indian posters have even given up looking for this pesky illusive F-16.

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## Maxpane

Dazzler said:


> Relax, have faith in your LORD, and armed forces. Indians are trying to lure us into warmongering but are scared to death after PAF's surgical strikes. Their political leadership does not care, and military leadership is confused. No need to worry, things under control.
> 
> 
> And, dont get too much into those random tweets.


got it sir

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## Dazzler

waz said:


> Oh dear it seems the Indian posters have even given up looking for this pesky illusive F-16.



That naswar f-16 drove them away.

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## waz

Dazzler said:


> That naswar f-16 drove them away.



Yes, it’s not hard for them to find it. It’s at a PAF airfield lol.

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## ARMalik

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Why would u say this? Is something happening?



It is the only logical conclusion after analyzing *what happened *to IAF and *WHY *it happened? This is an unbiased conclusion. *Hint *-- There is only beast flying in the air these days and it has a literally plenty of options, including the options to decimate ships.

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## Pakhtoon yum

ARMalik said:


> It is the only logical conclusion after analyzing *what happened *to IAF and *WHY *it happened? This is an unbiased conclusion. *Hint *-- There is only beast flying in the air these days and it has a literally plenty of options, including the options to decimate ships.


So its PN vs IN now

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## CHACHA"G"

waz said:


> Yes, it’s not hard for them to find it. It’s at a PAF airfield lol.



Where are those worlds best satellites which india have in space...……….. Why cant they post some Pics to back their claims ...… LMAO



Pakhtoon yum said:


> So its PN vs IN now


yes they are on move from last 48 hours (reports says) ……… So might be they getting close...…….. Honestly they know Navy is our weakest point...….. Maybe they try some trick here ,,, Just like what they did in so called airstrike .. 
But Remember what Modi said very recently ...
Real Strike is coming ,,, what they did was practice run..

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## gambit

patriotpakistan said:


> My reply was to your calls of releasing the prisoner and your rather stupid use of bullying language. Now what I do is none of your business. Now Ad hominem all you want till you're out of breath.


I did not called for the release of the Indian pilot.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-182#post-11213078
_"The Indian pilots will be *confined to quarters* and not exploited for political purposes."_

Which part of 'confined' in the English language you do not understand?

But just in case you do not understand the word 'confine', here it is...

"keep or restrict someone or something within certain limits of (space, scope, quantity, or time)."

Here is what Pakistan decided to do...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/01/india/india-pakistan-pilot-release-intl/index.html


> ...be released Friday as a "gesture for peace,"...


Slow down. Take a deep breath. And think *BEFORE* you post in a public forum.

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## Taimur Khurram

Telescopic Sight said:


> Impressive analysis. Can't see any flaw in it.
> 
> BTW, I just am unable to see 2 chutes . I see 1 chute only. And the falling debris. Can you help me ?



The dudes in the video mention seeing two pilots. That's the big catch.

Su-30MKI taken out, kill confirmed.



There's a reason Pakistan initially looked for two more pilots. A dual-seater was also fired at.

As a Yankee, you should be happy. One of your Vipers might have done this, and if it did, that's great publicity for Lockheed Martin.

-mod edited thanks

@Dubious

Guys please stop lol.

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## CHACHA"G"

Taimur Khurram said:


> The dudes in the video mention seeing two pilots. That's the big catch.
> 
> Su-30MKI taken out, kill confirmed.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a reason Pakistan initially looked for two more pilots. A dual-seater was also fired at.
> 
> As a Yankee, you should be happy. One of your Vipers might have done this, and if it did, that's great publicity for Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> @Dubious
> 
> Guys please stop lol.


Two very clear sounds of Ejection seats one after other...…..



Taimur Khurram said:


> As a Yankee, you should be happy. One of your Vipers might have done this, and if it did, that's great publicity for Lockheed Martin.


Agree,,,,,,,,,,, And they might get big order too...………….. So F-16s for IAF

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## Taimur Khurram

Dazzler said:


> Thunders and mirages



Question:

If we suppose the alleged Viper missile is fake, where do you think it came from? A sloppy forgery, bought from Taiwan, or a leftover from a previous engagement?

And do you think it's fake or real?


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## AfrazulMandal

CHACHA"G" said:


> So , Big bird , twin engine (may be Su-30) 2 piolets came out same time.... Bird in IOK..... Great news bro,,,,.
> But on Abhi …….. He was flying Mig-21 ,,,,,,,, unless he(in air) or someone(on ground) changed his personal belongings..


Hiding a su crash is beyond the capability of India. We have even released most of the personal info of Abhi already. If another had crashed, we would have released that too.


----------



## MikeZulu

sohail.ishaque said:


> And that is what brought Gen Bakhsi back to his senses. Earlier he wanted to finish Pakistan in a day or two and now i heard him saying that we should now prolong the war and cripple the economy of Pakistan. lol.
> 
> Plan A, Attack the Pak is out of question now.
> Plan B, Cripple economy of Pak is now being discussed by him.



Cripple economy of Pak? Doesn't mean that they won't attack.
It could mean that instead of a swift-cold start war, which they now know they can't win cause of our operational readiness and no matter how they deny it, they now know it. Instead of it they will go for a long term war.
Naval blockade might also be on cards as economy depends on port.


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## Maxpane



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## Telescopic Sight

Taimur Khurram said:


> Question:
> 
> If we suppose the alleged Viper missile is fake,
> As a Yankee, you should be happy. One of your Vipers might have done this, and if it did, that's great publicity for Lockheed Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And do you think it's fake or real?



I have clarified this a couple of times just today : I may have a U.S.citizen ship after 2 decades of living here, yet I am Indian by birth, raised there.

secondly, the missile is real , it belongs to Pakistan and there are so many post (including my own) which show the contract and the sub contract number to paf.

and if you still want to think it is faked, don't you think that a country that can send a mission to Mars can make a copy easily ?

[/QUOTE]



Maxpane said:


> View attachment 543253
> View attachment 543253



So much creativity in Pakistan is wasted on these fake posts. I am sorry to see a senior expert like tufail even wasting a second debunking this post.

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## SrNair

TheDarkKnight said:


> All US origin equipment is treated the same - Foreign third party sales are also approved by US.
> 
> As I said we definitely can park all our F16s and count it for the world or atleast the Americans will do the counting in their scheduled checks as per agreements.
> 
> Initially India claimed no loss and all pilots accounted for, and then IAF pilot arrest was publicly released - how do you trust your source then?
> 
> This is a separate discussion but I have given my opinion here on the changes in pilot count:
> #BREAKING: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR


Only one time and that is through MEA not military
Once it happens it will be a human mistake twice it will be a lie .Thrice then that is very unprofessional



pakistanipower said:


> go **** off # 19 sqn is oldest of F-16 and no capability of firing Amraam @Arbiter
> 
> 
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
> And what a proof that it was a F-16D it also might be possible that it was MKI @soundHound
> 
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
> 
> 
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
> 
> suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
> wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return



The picture that released by your military verified it.F 16 parts was identified by experts.
One of the member here told one was twin seat .
Mig 21 dont have twin seat but F 16 have .


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## Ultima Thule

SrNair said:


> The picture that released by your military verified it.F 16 parts was identified by experts.
> One of the member here told one was twin seat .
> Mig 21 dont have twin seat but F 16 have .


All your false claims are already debunk, you stupid troll @SrNair , it was clearly a Mig 21 bison @SrNair

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## Ghessan

The picture that released by your military verified it.F 16 parts was identified by experts.
One of the member here told one was twin seat .
Mig 21 dont have twin seat but F 16 have .[/QUOTE said:


> i suggest you to do through this analysis: *https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth-of-shot-paf-f-16-debunked-indian-lies-exposed.604973/*


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## Rafi

SrNair said:


> That is F 16 .
> 
> Loss of a jet like Su cant hide from our authorities .Men and machine are equally honoured in our country
> 
> 
> 
> I wont blame you .
> Truth always hurts .
> India is not your cup of tea dude.
> Its in a different league .



This is getting tedious, get it through your thick skull, we did NOT lose an F16, a legend like Tufail has also confirmed.

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## TheDarkKnight

SrNair said:


> Only one time and that is through MEA not military
> Once it happens it will be a human mistake twice it will be a lie .Thrice then that is very unprofessional


Applies in private civilian matters but sadly this is a conflict, but I am sorry for the agony you have suffered due this confusion. I propose once the dust settles, PAF and IAF should develop a scoreboard in which the casualties can be recorded and displayed just like in most PS4 video games, where you are able to graphically see who has shot/killed what, how many kills per player, etc etc overall points can also be associated to each teams, so we can know which team team won and also include man of the match rewards as well.


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## SQ8

Rafi said:


> This is getting tedious, get it through your thick skull, we did NOT lose an F16, a legend like Tufail has also confirmed.


Bhai, inko maray howe kawon se khush hone do; inke zameer ki itni hi hudood hain.

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## HRK

CHACHA"G" said:


> Hum nay giraya hai (we shoot it down) ,,,,,, Two sounds of ejection seats ( mean 2 piolets) , People saying 2 piolets are coming down from 1 plane...…. Jet going down in IOK, look big ……… (Su-30 or Mig-29 ) ………………………. Latest video , day time ,,
> lol
> @waz , @Oscar , @Bilal Khan 777 , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) , @gambit , @HRK , , @MastanKhan , @Sugarcane , @Hodor , @Windjammer , @The Eagle , @Tps43 , @graphican , @Imran Khan , @Mentee , @Signalian
> And all other who can look at video and give some info …………


just stick with official version


----------



## GumNaam

SrNair said:


> Loss of a jet like Su cant hide from our authorities .Men and machine are equally honoured in our country


oh is that right??? care to explain why your men and machine equally treating "authorities" are mum on this crash? no don't gimme that load a horse crap that its the helicopter, even your own cop is saying its a jet.





I wont blame you .
Truth always hurts .
Pakistan is not your cup of tea dude.
Its in a different league .

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## Ultima Thule

SrNair said:


> I wont blame you .
> Truth always hurts .
> India is not your cup of tea dude.
> Its in a different league .


you're so stubborn and shameless to accept no F-16 were down you found wreckage of AIM-120 proof that we blown away either MKI or MIG-29 from distance, why you always delusional/face saving/ humiliation mode, keep blabbering without a proof @SrNair


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## bananarepublic

attack on balakot debunked 

LOL

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## Arsalan

SrNair said:


> That is F 16 .
> 
> Loss of a jet like Su cant hide from our authorities .Men and machine are equally honoured in our country
> 
> 
> 
> I wont blame you .
> Truth always hurts .
> India is not your cup of tea dude.
> Its in a different league .


And where did it went?
The derby you claim to be of F-16 have been exposed so badly, i though you guys will have some shame posting ANYTHING at all but . . . . . . .

Here we go again.



Rafi said:


> This is getting tedious, get it through your thick skull, we did NOT lose an F16, a legend like Tufail has also confirmed.





CHACHA"G" said:


> Hum nay giraya hai (we shoot it down) ,,,,,, Two sounds of ejection seats ( mean 2 piolets) , People saying 2 piolets are coming down from 1 plane...…. Jet going down in IOK, look big ……… (Su-30 or Mig-29 ) ………………………. Latest video , day time ,,
> lol
> @waz , @Oscar , @Bilal Khan 777 , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) , @gambit , @HRK , , @MastanKhan , @Sugarcane , @Hodor , @Windjammer , @The Eagle , @Tps43 , @graphican , @Imran Khan , @Mentee , @Signalian
> And all other who can look at video and give some info …………

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## CHACHA"G"

They 


Arsalan said:


> And where did it went?
> The derby you claim to be of F-16 have been exposed so badly, i though you guys will have some shame posting ANYTHING at all but . . . . . . .
> 
> Here we go again.


shoot down 1000 PAF's F-16s without firing Any missiles ….. lol...………. How …………… For that wait for new upcoming Bollywood movie..


----------



## Ultima Thule

@SrNair look at this you troll, read it all @SrNair 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth...ked-indian-lies-exposed.604973/#post-11227875


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## Taimur Khurram

SrNair said:


> F 16 parts was identified by experts.











SrNair said:


> Mig 21 dont have twin seat but F 16 have .



So do Sukhois, which India itself admits to sending during the encounter.

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## sohail.ishaque

MikeZulu said:


> Cripple economy of Pak? Doesn't mean that they won't attack.
> It could mean that instead of a swift-cold start war, which they now know they can't win cause of our operational readiness and no matter how they deny it, they now know it. Instead of it they will go for a long term war.
> Naval blockade might also be on cards as economy depends on port.


It was not the Plan A though. They thought that they can attack and dominate PAF which didn't happen and shattered their dreams.

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## Dazzler

Taimur Khurram said:


> Question:
> 
> If we suppose the alleged Viper missile is fake, where do you think it came from? A sloppy forgery, bought from Taiwan, or a leftover from a previous engagement?
> 
> And do you think it's fake or real?



Fake, a poor attempt to copy the real thing.

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## m52k85

GriffinsRule said:


> Learn the language and you will understand what the film makers are saying





Alpha1 said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
> Su-30 MKI?
> @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM



Can someone translate for those us who are only urdu speaking


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## ZedZeeshan

I dont think any further escalation will happen.. India ko tasalee karwa dea hai PAF na..

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## Jinn Baba

Let's see what happens after chaiwala returns to India and what he says there. It will either set the stage for de-escalation, or more Indian pilots will be landing on the ground without their planes.


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## Oracle

so as per IAF / indian media , it was Abhinandan Piolot who destroyed the F16.

So once this pilot leaves pakistani soil , he will confirm his quote ?


----------



## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101400288601227264

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## Oruc

Jinn Baba said:


> Let's see what happens after chaiwala returns to India and what he says there. It will either set the stage for de-escalation, or more Indian pilots will be landing on the ground without their planes.





Oracle said:


> so as per IAF / indian media , it was Abhinandan Piolot who destroyed the F16.
> 
> So once this pilot leaves pakistani soil , he will confirm his quote ?


most probably its an arrangment to give india some face saving. 
they might give him Vir Chakra


----------



## AsianLion

Su30 MKI kill and Israeli upgraded MiG-21 Bison kills by PAF is one hell of brilliant professional performance. Headsup high. That surreal happiness in every Pakistani for defending our land successfully and quietly.

Catching Wing Commander was another master stroke and exposing him through out World to see evidence all out open.

Pakistan actually does it hard and donot talk loud and shout out, it just does it , hits it for world to judge and see. Look at hallow empty lies after lies by Indian media, and Modi govt. Overtime wasting money and time of 1200 million Indians.

Its like something really bad hit India deep and they are just beginning to feel the extreme pain and shock given. The Indians are begining to feel it was a complete failure of all sorts, the politicians are now coming up, janta is talking. The Joint Chief Conference of Tri-services needing a conference to show a broken AIM 120-C5 missile is such a shame with hallow victories & lies again.

Silently and self assuring to each Pakistani and letting the world knows the extent of damage Pakistan has done deep into Indians and yet not brag so loud about it.

Pakistan all the way.

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## Arsalan

CHACHA"G" said:


> They
> 
> shoot down 1000 PAF's F-16s without firing Any missiles ….. lol...………. How …………… For that wait for new upcoming Bollywood movie..


Koi pata ni, may be they trained some pigeons too

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## Char

no one can defeat Indian on the internet.

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## Taimur Khurram

Dazzler said:


> Fake, a poor attempt to copy the real thing.



Either that or Taiwan gave them a hand.


----------



## SrNair

Taimur Khurram said:


> So do Sukhois, which India itself admits to sending during the encounter.



Tell that to experts .
Su didnt crossed LoC ,much superior one its dont have to .
But Mig crossed


----------



## AsifIjaz

So i met a few indian colleagues at jumma prayers... They were unanimous on 2 points...

1--- Modi may be grilled on the social media but their tv channels are still going gung on their AF fantastic work... They are like on steroids. There may be a few voices here and there but overall the indian ppl listen to analysis on news channels which is still pro modi.

2--- If the pressure via social media continues then most likely modi will sanction some other adventure. All were adamant that there will be a short war or skirmish as modi will not sit and let himself be put into opposition.

Diplomacy and international pressure must play its part for peace. Worrisome is the KSA/UAE have played a neutral role as economically both do not want to antagonize india. Pakistan needs to work on diplomacy but we must 1st get back on our feet and put the ailing economy back on the right track. Currently we are a liability for KSA/UAE and india is an investment friendly country whose enterprises are investing in GCC.

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## CHACHA"G"

Arsalan said:


> Koi pata ni, may be they trained some pigeons too


Ohhhhhhhh ,, so we lost exclusive rights for pigeons...


----------



## qamsss

Taimur Khurram said:


> Either that or Taiwan gave them a hand.


Guys normally i dont comment or post anything just keep an eye on this forum but the video shared earlier of downing a twin seater, in my local language people saying that "its our plane and they(india) will claim they shot it down, then in the background another peron saying that they are our pilots."

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## MM_Haider

So be ready now when Abhinandan will claim that he shot down F16..

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## SrNair

Arsalan said:


> And where did it went?
> The derby you claim to be of F-16 have been exposed so badly, i though you guys will have some shame posting ANYTHING at all but . . . . . . .
> 
> Here we go again.



Observe the serious of aanouncement of DG ISPR .
Everything was clear .
Due to over enthusiasm he thought the twin seat jet was Su and it was Indian pilots .
But at evening it becomes one .

It is AIM from F 16.

You dont have to worry .Once it settled ,we will eventually release the videos and evidence like we did during 2016 strike after Uri.
From KPK strike they will have Aerial recc and satelite pictures for damage assessment .



GumNaam said:


> oh is that right??? care to explain why your men and machine equally treating "authorities" are mum on this crash? no don't gimme that load a horse crap that its the helicopter, even your own cop is saying its a jet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wont blame you .
> Truth always hurts .
> Pakistan is not your cup of tea dude.
> Its in a different league .



We had faced technical issues before .
Nothing new in that


----------



## The Accountant

qamsss said:


> Guys normally i dont comment or post anything just keep an eye on this forum but the video shared earlier of downing a twin seater, in my local language people saying that "its our plane and they(india) will claim they shot it down, then in the background another peron saying that they are our pilots."


This is bull shit nothing being said like this here ...



SrNair said:


> Observe the serious of aanouncement of DG ISPR .
> Everything was clear .
> Due to over enthusiasm he thought the twin seat jet was Su and it was Indian pilots .
> But at evening it becomes one .
> 
> It is AIM from F 16.
> 
> You dont have to worry .Once it settled ,we will eventually release the videos and evidence like we did during 2016 strike after Uri.
> From KPK strike they will have Aerial recc and satelite pictures for damage assessment .
> 
> 
> 
> We had faced technical issues before .
> Nothing new in that


Evidence in a form of new bollywood film?


----------



## Arsalan

SrNair said:


> Observe the serious of aanouncement of DG ISPR .
> Everything was clear .
> Due to over enthusiasm he thought the twin seat jet was Su and it was Indian pilots .
> But at evening it becomes one .
> 
> It is AIM from F 16.
> 
> You dont have to worry .Once it settled ,we will eventually release the videos and evidence like we did during 2016 strike after Uri.
> From KPK strike they will have Aerial recc and satelite pictures for damage assessment .
> 
> 
> 
> We had faced technical issues before .
> Nothing new in that


First, i am still waiting for that evidence of Uri strike
Second, finding BVRAAM dont means a F-16 was shot down. Specially when the AIM is controversial itself (same batch number issue to Taiwan) and there is absolutely no evidence of F-16 wreckage.
Third, your media have already shared what they call F-16 wreckage! 

here;
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth...ked-indian-lies-exposed.604973/#post-11227714

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## GumNaam

SrNair said:


> Observe the serious of aanouncement of DG ISPR .
> Everything was clear .
> Due to over enthusiasm he thought the twin seat jet was Su and it was Indian pilots .
> But at evening it becomes one .
> 
> It is AIM from F 16.
> 
> You dont have to worry .Once it settled ,we will eventually release the videos and evidence like we did during 2016 strike after Uri.
> From KPK strike they will have Aerial recc and satelite pictures for damage assessment .
> 
> 
> 
> We had faced technical issues before .
> Nothing new in that


Yeah, the technical issue being a missile went up your bunghole and "technically" blew your arse in a hundred little pieces!


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## AsianLion

if the Indian claim of loosing one Mig 21 and shooting down an F-16 was right, they would have awarded a medal to the officer instead of sacking it, Mig 21 being much inferior and in excess as compared to our F-16 thats much superior and we don't have much of them.

*India removes senior IAF officer after Pakistan shoots down jets*

NEW DELHI: The Indian government has removed a senior air force officer reportedly after Pakistan’s successful strikes and capturing of a pilot on February 27.

According to Indian media reports, Eastern Air Command chief Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar has been appointed as the new chief of Indian Air Force's Western Air Command (WAC) on Thursday in place of Air Marshal C Harikumar.

The decision came after Pakistan’s surprise response against Indian aggression on Wednesday when two IAF fighter jets were shot down and a pilot was arrested for violating airspace.

The WAC is headquartered in New Delhi and controls the area from north of Bikaner in Rajasthan up to Siachen Glacier and controls almost 40 per cent of the air bases of the Indian Air Force.

Harikumar was posted as WAC chief in January 2017.

Update

In a statement issued today, the *Indian Defence Ministry said that the officer has retired.

“Air Marshal Chandrashekharan Hari Kumar PVSM AVSM VM VSM ADC, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Western Air Command Indian Air Force retired on 28 February 2019 after an illustrious career spanning over 39 yrs," the statement read*s.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/4...r-iaf-officer-after-pakistan-shoots-down-jets

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## Dazzler

SrNair said:


> Tell that to experts .
> Su didnt crossed LoC ,much superior one its dont have to .
> But Mig crossed



No f-16 was used in the strikes. Bring the evidence if was used. Showing a fake piece of trash and calling it a piece of AMRAAM will get you nowhere.

This is what experts have to say.

*Surgical Strike in Pakistan a Botched Operation?*

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## drunken-monke

qamsss said:


> Guys normally i dont comment or post anything just keep an eye on this forum but the video shared earlier of downing a twin seater, in my local language people saying that "its our plane and they(india) will claim they shot it down, then in the background another peron saying that they are our pilots."


Can you be a bit more elaboration..


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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101094254355591168


----------



## Menace2Society

AsianUnion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101094254355591168



They call it 'perception war' when Imran and Pakistan is simply being honest with everyone.

Manipulating and lying to twist public opinion is what India do. These chanayka gangus have finally been put in their place.

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## Pak-Canuck

Ok, crash site #1 in IOK of Mi-17 Heli:







THIS IS CRASH SITE #2 in IOK as per RT (notice much smaller body of water unlike the first vid):






Now does that look like a Mig-21?

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## Taimur Khurram

SrNair said:


> Tell that to experts .



Your own military admitted to sending Sukhois. 

A twin-seater clearly went down, and it can't be an F-16 since you have no pilot or wreckage to display to us, so the only option left is a Su-30MKI.


----------



## Riz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101440105737306112
Hamid mir trolled India..

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## LegitimateIdiot

soundHound said:


> Let me be clear here, give me link where you have seen a country sharing enemeis radar signature, what you are asking is to divulge secret what do you think Pakistan will do after seeing those electronic signatures?
> 
> 
> 
> All those proof of sales of AIM available in public domain are false? Do you think people are gullible like you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See man, Pakistan has long history of disowing there own, for years they disowned there own soldiers who dies during Kargil, they disonwed the claim that Osama was in pakistan.
> 
> Do you really think anyone will trust what your ispr says? For good sake they changed there statements zillion times over period of a day.
> 
> Last, if it was another Indian jet, pictures would been out by now, we don't hide we honour.


9/11 was an inside job


----------



## AsianLion

Pakistan took revenge of the murdered crow only living thing at Balakot IAF payload drop by shooting downing two Indian aircrafts.

Our Crows are so precious for us.

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## Dubious

Dear god! Where has the discussion reached thus far? What is the conclusion?



AsianUnion said:


> Pakistan took revenge of the murdered crow only living thing at Balakot IAF payload drop by shooting downing two Indian aircrafts.
> 
> Our Crows are so precious for us.


PLUS trees....The murdered trees were part of our ecosystem...2 mins of silence for the 15 trees that took shahadah

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## Dubious

Dr. Strangelove said:


> we r going to the next level to get justice for our trees
> *Pakistan to lodge U.N. complaint against India for 'eco-terrorism' forest bombing
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...g-idUSKCN1QI4FX?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews*


The United Nations states that “destruction of the environment, not justified by military necessity and carried out wantonly, is clearly contrary to existing international law”, according to the U.N. General Assembly resolution 47/37.



AsianUnion said:


> *Pakistan to lodge U.N. complaint against India for 'eco-terrorism' forest bombing*
> 
> ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan plans to lodge a complaint against India at the United Nations, accusing it of “eco-terrorism” over air strikes that damaged pine trees and brought the nuclear-armed nations to blows, a government minister said on Friday.
> 
> India and Pakistan are amidst their biggest stand-off in many years, with the United States and other global powers mediating to de-escalate tensions between arch-foes who have fought three wars since their independence from British colonial rule in 1947.
> 
> Indian warplanes on Tuesday bombed a hilly forest area near the northern Pakistani town of Balakot, about 40 km (25 miles) from India’s border in the Himalayan region of Kashmir. New Delhi said it had destroyed a militant training camp and killed hundreds of “terrorists”.
> 
> 
> Pakistan denied there were any such camps in the area and locals said only one elderly villager was hurt.
> 
> Climate Change Minister Malik Amin Aslam said Indian jets bombed a “forest reserve” and the government was undertaking an environmental impact assessment, which will be the basis a complaint at the United Nations and other forums.
> 
> “What happened over there is environmental terrorism,” Aslam told Reuters, adding that dozens of pine trees had been felled. “There has been serious environmental damage.”
> 
> 
> Two Reuters reporters who visited the site of the bombings, where four large craters could be seen, said up to 15 pine trees had been brought down by the blasts. Villagers dismissed Indian claims that hundreds of militants were killed.
> 
> The United Nations states that “destruction of the environment, not justified by military necessity and carried out wantonly, is clearly contrary to existing international law”, according to the U.N. General Assembly resolution 47/37.
> 
> India and Pakistan are also engaged in a diplomatic tussle, with New Delhi vowing to isolate Pakistan over its alleged links to militant groups. Islamabad is currently putting pressure on the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) to uninvite India’s foreign minister from their next meeting.
> 
> Reporting by Drazen Jorgic; Editing by Nick Macfie
> 
> Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
> 
> @Dubious We launched complaint against India for our trees destroyed.


Well played once again! THIS is what govts should do...NIT pick anything that can be thrown at them instead of anger and immature tantrums...*that *is what india throws and again we are not indians and we need not "learn" nor "follow" their expertise!

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## Agha Sher

Taimur Khurram said:


> Your own military admitted to sending Sukhois.
> 
> A twin-seater clearly went down, and it can't be an F-16 since you have no pilot or wreckage to display to us, so the only option left is a Su-30MKI.



However, Pakistan does not have any wreckage or pilot of the Su-30. The 2nd aircraft and pilot remains a mystery.

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## The Accountant

AsianUnion said:


> *Pakistan to lodge U.N. complaint against India for 'eco-terrorism' forest bombing*
> 
> ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan plans to lodge a complaint against India at the United Nations, accusing it of “eco-terrorism” over air strikes that damaged pine trees and brought the nuclear-armed nations to blows, a government minister said on Friday.
> 
> India and Pakistan are amidst their biggest stand-off in many years, with the United States and other global powers mediating to de-escalate tensions between arch-foes who have fought three wars since their independence from British colonial rule in 1947.
> 
> Indian warplanes on Tuesday bombed a hilly forest area near the northern Pakistani town of Balakot, about 40 km (25 miles) from India’s border in the Himalayan region of Kashmir. New Delhi said it had destroyed a militant training camp and killed hundreds of “terrorists”.
> 
> 
> Pakistan denied there were any such camps in the area and locals said only one elderly villager was hurt.
> 
> Climate Change Minister Malik Amin Aslam said Indian jets bombed a “forest reserve” and the government was undertaking an environmental impact assessment, which will be the basis a complaint at the United Nations and other forums.
> 
> “What happened over there is environmental terrorism,” Aslam told Reuters, adding that dozens of pine trees had been felled. “There has been serious environmental damage.”
> 
> 
> Two Reuters reporters who visited the site of the bombings, where four large craters could be seen, said up to 15 pine trees had been brought down by the blasts. Villagers dismissed Indian claims that hundreds of militants were killed.
> 
> The United Nations states that “destruction of the environment, not justified by military necessity and carried out wantonly, is clearly contrary to existing international law”, according to the U.N. General Assembly resolution 47/37.
> 
> India and Pakistan are also engaged in a diplomatic tussle, with New Delhi vowing to isolate Pakistan over its alleged links to militant groups. Islamabad is currently putting pressure on the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) to uninvite India’s foreign minister from their next meeting.
> 
> Reporting by Drazen Jorgic; Editing by Nick Macfie
> 
> Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
> 
> @Dubious We launched complaint against India for our trees destroyed.



Awsome trolling ...

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## Taimur Khurram

Agha Sher said:


> However, Pakistan does not have any wreckage or pilot of the Su-30. The 2nd aircraft and pilot remains a mystery.



It's a dual seater bro, based on the videos available and eyewitnesses. There's only one dual seater India operates in that area, the Su-30MKI which they also admit to using to intercept PAF aircraft that violated Indian airspace.


----------



## Agha Sher

Taimur Khurram said:


> It's a dual seater bro, based on the videos available and eyewitnesses. There's only one dual seater India operates in that area, the Su-30MKI which they also admit to using to intercept PAF aircraft that violated Indian airspace.



Yes bro, however, the videos of the burning aircraft clearly resembles a Mi-17 and not a Su-30. I have tried to identify a Su-30 in the many videos available, but they all point towards a Mi-17. Also eyewitnesses claim 2 parachutes which matches both Su-30 and F-16D, so we can't deduct anything from that.


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Agha Sher said:


> Yes bro, however, the videos of the burning aircraft clearly resembles a Mi-17 and not a Su-30. I have tried to identify a Su-30 in the many videos available, but they all point towards a Mi-17. Also eyewitnesses claim 2 parachutes which matches both Su-30 and F-16D, so we can't deduct anything from that.



Two parachutes came from one plane though, and if it was an F-16 India would waste no time exploiting that find.

And of course, the US would be up in arms over their aircraft being used in offensive raids, and they regulate these aircraft very heavily too so Pakistan by-passing them is unlikely.


----------



## AsianLion

Agha Sher said:


> Yes bro, however, the videos of the burning aircraft clearly resembles a Mi-17 and not a Su-30. I have tried to identify a Su-30 in the many videos available, but they all point towards a Mi-17. Also eyewitnesses claim 2 parachutes which matches both Su-30 and F-16D, so we can't deduct anything from that.



*THIS IS CRASH SITE #1 in IOK as per RT (notice much smaller body of water unlike first vid): Su30 MKI*






*Check this crash site #2 in IOK of Mi-17 Heli:*

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## Bilal Khan 777

There were some claims that there are no two seater Mig-21s. Well, here is one.

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## Pak-Canuck

AsianUnion said:


> *THIS IS CRASH SITE #1 in IOK as per RT (notice much smaller body of water unlike first vid): Su30 MKI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Check this crash site #2 in IOK of Mi-17 Heli:*


 
EXACTLY what I am saying, on a lot of Indian news clips they are COMBINING these two footages as showing as one when clearly they are two different crash sites!

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## ptldM3

Taimur Khurram said:


> Your own military admitted to sending Sukhois.
> 
> A twin-seater clearly went down, and it can't be an F-16 since you have no pilot or wreckage to display to us, so the only option left is a Su-30MKI.





Don't pander conspiracies there is zero evidence of an SU-30 going down or even being in the emodiate area. The Mig-21 broke formation and got shot down after going deep into Pakistani controled Kashmir, there was reports that his wingman was another Mig-21 but he returned safely. Both Pakistani and India reports are laughable, both have been caught blatantly lying. The stupidity is kept alive on this forum.

Eye witnesses claimed seeing several parachutes but it was over Pakistan controlled territory. If Pakistan had SU-30 wreckage they would parade it.


One thing is 100% certain, a Mig-21 was shot down and the pilot taken POW. Many reported seeing multiple parachutes but it was over Pakistani controled territory. Make what you will of it, but people claiming it is an SU-30 is not only irrational but doesn't make logical sense nor is it supported by evidence.






Arsalan said:


> First, i am still waiting for that evidence of Uri strike
> Second, finding BVRAAM dont means a F-16 was shot down. *Specially when the AIM is controversial itself (same batch number issue to Taiwan) ...*
> 
> here;
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth...ked-indian-lies-exposed.604973/#post-11227714





Dazzler said:


> No f-16 was used in the strikes. Bring the evidence if was used. *Showing a fake piece of trash and calling it a piece of AMRAAM will get you nowhere.*





Lets stick to fact and evidence. The missile India recovered was real, it was tagged with serial numbers and Pakistan used the same batch as Taiwan, this is easily verifiable.


http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26...issiles-were-used-by-pakistan-in-aerial-brawl


"Some claimed that the contract number shown on the missile fragment identified it as one shipped to Taiwan, suggesting the evidence was fabricated. *However, this contract was actually a larger U.S. Foreign Military Sales deal that did involve deliveries to Pakistan."




http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3384
*


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## Jango

AsianUnion said:


> *THIS IS CRASH SITE #1 in IOK as per RT (notice much smaller body of water unlike first vid): Su30 MKI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Check this crash site #2 in IOK of Mi-17 Heli:*



Both are of the same Mi-17.

You can clearly see the main rotor blade, the rear cargo ramp section, and a little part of the tail boom.

Let's not stoop as low as the Indian side.

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## AsianLion

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> There were some claims that there are no two seater Mig-21s. Well, here is one.
> View attachment 543390



Mig 21 dual seater only a handful in number are trainer jets.

It is now almost assuring that Su 30 MKI or/ Mig 29 dual seater was the second jet shot down.


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## ptldM3

AsianUnion said:


> *THIS IS CRASH SITE #1 in IOK as per RT (notice much smaller body of water unlike first vid): Su30 MKI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Check this crash site #2 in IOK of Mi-17 Heli:*





Clearly an Mi-17.

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## Basel

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> There were some claims that there are no two seater Mig-21s. Well, here is one.
> View attachment 543390



Why Mig-21s we're used? It's intercepter bird, is it possible PAF lured IAF in to some trap and shoot down intercepters launched by IAF?


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## ZAC1

2nd aircraft wreckage fell in IOK


Agha Sher said:


> However, Pakistan does not have any wreckage or pilot of the Su-30. The 2nd aircraft and pilot remains a mystery.



One mig 21 n second is mirage 2000...


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## AsianLion

ptldM3 said:


> Clearly an Mi-17.




Actually there is clear evidence by local eye witnesses IAF lost 3 jets, 2 fighters and 1 Helicopter.

One Mig 21 Bison fighter shot down in Pakistan and pilot caught. Second, IAF Su 30Mki/Mig-29 was shot down 7 Km from Gerand Kallan J&K Village near Budgan, and third, the Mi-17 helicopter which burst in mid-air over Budgan, suddenly was either shot down by A-to-A missile or a launchpad from air to ground missile all at the same time 27/02/2019 dated.

Not a coincidence or technical failure is it?

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## ZAC1

Air marshal shahid latif quoted in ary tv show

So its whether su 30 or morage 2000


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## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> Don't pander conspiracies there is zero evidence of an SU-30 going down or even being in the emodiate area. The Mig-21 broke formation and got shot down after going deep into Pakistani controled Kashmir, there was reports that his wingman was another Mig-21 but he returned safely. Both Pakistani and India reports are laughable, both have been caught blatantly lying. The stupidity is kept alive on this forum.
> 
> Eye witnesses claimed seeing several parachutes but it was over Pakistan controlled territory. If Pakistan had SU-30 wreckage they would parade it.
> 
> 
> One thing is 100% certain, a Mig-21 was shot down and the pilot taken POW. Many reported seeing multiple parachutes but it was over Pakistani controled territory. Make what you will of it, but people claiming it is an SU-30 is not only irrational but doesn't make logical sense nor is it supported by evidence.





We all know you're only crying because it's your birds that got taken out.

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## Telescopic Sight

Already videos are coming out of PAF 2 seaters F 16 being chased by IAF over the LOC. So that explains the mysterious 2 pilots that ISPR announced and later said " No I made a mistake "

Did Abhi get an F 16 ? ( I don't know either way )


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## z9-ec

Telescopic Sight said:


> Already videos are coming out of PAF 2 seaters F 16 being chased by IAF over the LOC. So that explains the mysterious 2 pilots that ISPR announced and later said " No I made a mistake "
> Abhi got an F 16 !




Stop bickering COME UP WITH EVIDENCE. YOU PIECE OF S&@#/

We have pictures, HD videos and strike VIDEOS... AND OUR TROPHY INDIAN WING COMMANDER as POW.

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## Taimur Khurram

Telescopic Sight said:


> Already videos are coming out of PAF 2 seaters F 16 being chased by IAF over the LOC. So that explains the mysterious 2 pilots that ISPR announced and later said " No I made a mistake "
> Abhi got an F 16 !



Show us the video. 

Also, a chase doesn't confirm a shoot down. It only shows that PAF aircraft lured him into their grasp.


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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Basel said:


> Why Mig-21s we're used? It's intercepter bird, is it possible PAF lured IAF in to some trap and shoot down intercepters launched by IAF?


Well if the targets were attack from within our borders then it's same to assume SOW's were used which were used most probably from Mirage V's, the MiG's might have chased the strike element and got intercepted by the escort or a nearby CAP.


----------



## Maxpane

Riz said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101440105737306112
> Hamid mir trolled India..


zalimmmmmmm

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## Myth_buster_1

Pak-Canuck said:


> EXACTLY what I am saying, on a lot of Indian news clips they are COMBINING these two footages as showing as one when clearly they are two different crash sites!


Notice landing wheels in first video and chaff dispenser in 2nd one which indicates its same mi-17


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## Windjammer

Telescopic Sight said:


> Already videos are coming out of PAF 2 seaters F 16 being chased by IAF over the LOC. So that explains the mysterious 2 pilots that ISPR announced and later said " No I made a mistake "
> Abhi got an F 16 !


Really, and who recorded those videos, was the MiG-21 Hud beaming live pictures back to Delhi....must be a DRDO invention. Firstly the bewildered Indians picked up a random image of a PAF pilot involved in an exercise in China, who is having goods laugh about Indian desperation. Then the Indians find a piece of Missile that was destined for Taiwan....and now a video has emerged, it must have been filmed from Mars since from ground it's impossible to tell if the aircraft is a single or dual seat.

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## Telescopic Sight

Taimur Khurram said:


> Show us the video.
> 
> Also, a chase doesn't confirm a shoot down. It only shows that PAF aircraft lured him into their grasp.



You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.

Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


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## AsianLion

Telescopic Sight said:


> Already videos are coming out of PAF 2 seaters F 16 being chased by IAF over the LOC. So that explains the mysterious 2 pilots that ISPR announced and later said " No I made a mistake "
> Abhi got an F 16 !



Another empty fluke as do the liar Indian media. Let me be clear, there is nothing concrete proof ever shown by India at all. They showed a AMRAAM 120-C5 missile and it could be well be the missile used from 100kms to make a kill of Su-30Mki/Mig-29/dual Mirage 2000 or the Mi-17 helicopter.

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## z9-ec

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing F16's . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor




THOSE ARE IAF SU-30.

HOW ridiculous can you be?


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## Taimur Khurram

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing F16's . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor



Vipers and Thunders look pretty similar. I can't really tell which one of them it is, all I know is that it's right behind the Fishbed. To be honest, it could even be one of India's aircraft going behind the Fishbed. 

And again, even if it is a Viper, that doesn't prove it got shot down lol. That's the main point of contention, did India shoot down a Viper? And the answer seems to be no.

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## z9-ec

We live in BVR era and this guy wants us to assume that video is of PAF?

HOW RIDICULOUS.

You are like your failed IAF Chiefs and Generals.


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## Telescopic Sight

Taimur Khurram said:


> Vipers and Thunders look pretty similar. I can't really tell which one of them it is, all I know is that it's right behind the Fishbed. To be honest, it could even be one of India's aircraft going behind the Fishbed.
> 
> And again, even if it is a Viper, that doesn't prove it got shot down lol. That's the main point of contention, did India shoot down a Viper? And the answer seems to be no.



No, But I don't think I claimed a shootdown of an F16. This clip shows that F16's were used.


----------



## ptldM3

AsianUnion said:


> Actually there is clear evidence by local eye witnesses IAF lost 3 jets, 2 fighters and 1 Helicopter.





So were are those jets? Were is the wreckage? Someone would have surly taken cell phone video/photos. How wouldn't eye witnesses even tell the difference between Indian and Pakistani aircraft/pilots from thousands of feet?

I'm 100% using evidence, you on the other hand are giving me rumors and conspiracies.





AsianUnion said:


> One fighter shot down in Pakistan and pilot caught.




About the only factual event so far.






AsianUnion said:


> Second, IAF Su 30Mki/Mig-29 was shot down 7 Km from Gerand Kallan J&K Village near Budgan,





No Mig-29s were ever involved. Instead Mirages and SU-30MKI were dispatched to deal with approaching Pakistani aircraft but they never violated Pakistani airspace unlike the Mig-21 which chased Pakistani aircraft. The Mig-21/s were in the area alone, the Mirages and MKIs never pressed the attack into Pakistani controlled airspace, they deterred F-16 (yes Pakistan used F-16 despite the denials). 

There was the one Mig-21 and it got shot down. The rest of your argument is nonsense.






AsianUnion said:


> and third, the Mi-17 helicopter which burst in mid-air over Budgan, suddenly was either shot down by A-to-A missile or a launchpad from air to ground missile all at the same time 27/02/2019 dated. Not a coincidence or technical failure is it?





Pakistan didn't even claim to have downed a helicopter so even Pakistani claims contradict your claims and yes helicopters do break up in mid air due to stress fractures in the tail and or the roters. In war time you would be shocked how many helicopters NATO lost in Afghanistan and Iraq due to mechanical malfunctions. During war attrition rates are much higher than in piece time due to high sorties and sometimes hastily rushing aircraft before they are ready.


NATO including contract aircraft lost 167 aircraft in Afghanistan. Only 35 were from hostile fire including ones destroyed on the ground.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan

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## Taimur Khurram

Telescopic Sight said:


> No, But I don't think I claimed a shootdown of an F16. This clip shows that F16's were used.



It really doesn't. Again, Thunders and Vipers look pretty damn similar to each other. Especially when zooming so fast.












But I am impressed that a fight of some sort was actually recorded (a tiny blast is barely caught at the end). However, this isn't enough to prove a Viper went down, or was even used.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of more learned users on this topic:

@Horus @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer @Dazzler @Dubious @Oscar


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## Windjammer

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing F16's . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


Dear Lord, you remind me of the reporter during the Gulf war, there was a B-52 flying over head and he was screaming fighter aircraft.....take a close look, if nothing else you can see solid pointed nose on both aircraft.
The MiG-21 has a cone sticking out....if I'm not mistaken these both look like JF-17s or F-16s.

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## The Accountant

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


An aircraft in a fight and that too in a chase mode will be flying that slow ?

Do u know what mach 2 is ? These are some random video that prove nothing ...


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## Telescopic Sight

AsianUnion said:


> WTH was that! Its like a WVR Within Visual Range chase, and I donot see a F16. How the hell then your Air Chief showed a BVR (Beyond Visual Range) more than 100 km distance AIM-20 C5 Missile on screen as a F16 shot down.
> 
> JF-17s, Mirages were frontline offensive jets used with escort missions run by F16s.



Oh you misunderstood the clip ! Both the jets are F 16 ADF 2 seaters ! 
Its not a scooter race that the IAF and the PAF plane will be so close to each other 

@Windjammer : Even you misunderstood my post ?


----------



## ptldM3

Taimur Khurram said:


> We all know you're only crying because it's your birds that got taken out.




The Bison shot down is essential not even Russian. It used Israeli F-16 avionics and Russia hasn't used the Mig-21 in decades it was also built in India.


Your bogus conspiracies got busted now you are tap dancing.

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## Taimur Khurram

Telescopic Sight said:


> Oh you misunderstood the clip ! Both the jets are F 16 ADF 2 seaters !
> Its not a scooter race that the IAF and the PAF plane will be so close to each other




First plane is clearly a Fishbed. It's nose looks all funny and I doubt Pakistan would use a freaking Fishcan during an offensive engagement, it's primarily an interceptor.


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## Muhammad Omar

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


Both aircraft looks like JF-17 Thunders to me

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## Telescopic Sight

Taimur Khurram said:


> First plane is clearly a Fishbed. It's nose looks all funny and I doubt Pakistan would use a freaking Fishcan during an offensive engagement, it's primarily an interceptor.



No Bison in this clip. Both Vipers. 
I apologize for not being more detailed in my post, 2 other members also misunderstood me.


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## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> The Bison shot down is essential not even Russian. It used Israeli F-16 avionics and Russia hasn't used the Mig-21 in decades it was also built in India.
> 
> 
> Your bogus conspiracies got busted now you are tap dancing.



Lmao there is nothing "bogus", the evidence indicates that a 2nd dual seater aircraft got destroyed, and it's not a Viper since there's no evidence of such and the US hasn't been squealing over Pakistan misusing and abusing American weaponry (as they would do in such a situation).

Not only that, but India openly admitted to using Sukhois in this situation. Which lends credence to the Sukhoi hypothesis.



Telescopic Sight said:


> No Bison in this clip. Both Vipers.
> I apologize for not being more detailed in my post, 2 other members also misunderstood me.



The first one for sure doesn't look like a Viper lol, it's wings and nose are all wrong. Even the 2nd one is iffy. Like I said, Thunders and Vipers look pretty similar to one another.

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## qamsss

Muhammad Omar said:


> Both aircraft looks like JF-17 Thunders to me


Both are jf17s i have a very clear video.

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## denel

Jammer said:


> The pilot is a through gentleman, just as both India and Pakistan's air warriors (or should I say gentlemen cadets) are supposed to be, I recognized that immediately, he handled himself very well under the "media displayed" recording. So long story short, I never questioned the integrity of the pilot (no matter where he is from, why does it matter if he is south Indian?).


in my dealing in the academic life; i have found always people from South of India far better and respectful and not arrogant vs people from North who are full of BS and back stabbing

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## Telescopic Sight

qamsss said:


> Both are jf17s i have a very clear video.


Can you share it? Thanks


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## Windjammer

Telescopic Sight said:


> Oh you misunderstood the clip ! Both the jets are F 16 ADF 2 seaters !
> Its not a scooter race that the IAF and the PAF plane will be so close to each other
> 
> @Windjammer : Even you misunderstood my post ?


So you are saying this video was captured over indian side of LOC.
Lets forget whether they are F-16 or JF-17 , hell they must have forgotten that they were going into enemy air space for a mission.....a couple of missiles on wing tips could come handy.

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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor



so wait, are you guys crying F-16s were used to shot down indian jets????

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## Maxpane

both looks thunder

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## shanipisces2002

I really don't see any missles on the wings hard points empty lol

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## Dazzler

Saw a cellphone video where 2 thunders were speeding back home low. Wow. The guy didn't give it to me to share. Damn.

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## NA71

AsianUnion said:


> Another empty fluke as do the liar Indian media. Let me be clear, there is nothing concrete proof ever shown by India at all. They showed a AMRAAM 120-C5 missile and it could be well be the missile used from 100kms to make a kill of Su-30Mki/Mig-29/dual Mirage 2000 or the Mi-17 helicopter.


The twitter handler anup.... WORKED HARD to prove F-16 kill even said F16 first kill by MiG21. If the actual video were released by Pak....i assure, Indians will be shocked till next Sunday. The HAVOC.... PAF created on ground. They will forget F-16 kill.

The uproar in India after PAF strikes, the face impressions of Indian service men during press conf. telling the story very clear.

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## ptldM3

Taimur Khurram said:


> Lmao there is nothing "bogus", the evidence clearly indicates that a 2nd dual seater aircraft got destroyed, and it's not a Viper since there's no evidence of such




Nice logic there. I never claimed there was hard evidence of either Pakistan losing an F-16 or India losing an MKI. You claim there is no video evidence of a "viper" yet you adamantly insist an MKI or Mig-29 got destroyed yet you have *zero evidence *yourself.


Your narrative to ridiculous, you claim some reports of parachutes are either Mig-29s (even though they weren't even used) or MKIs even though they were nowhere near the Mig-21. Video of the wreckage/parachutes was also taken in Pakistan controlled Kashmir, after all the Mig-21 pilot landed their but what are facts, let's just make up conspiracies. Pakistani are just as bad as Indians during this ordeal if not worse.





Taimur Khurram said:


> and the US hasn't been squealing over Pakistan misusing and abusing American weaponry (as they would do in such a situation).




India has produced evidence of an AIM-120C5 complete with serial numbers. It is 100% real and 100% proves F-16s were involved. But continue pandering conspiracies.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Let me be like Indian media. PAF farted on 2 Su-30MKI and rest is history!

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## CHACHA"G"

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


Where is the MIG-21 ……….. I don't see any you liar ……………… ……………………….
And where is the payload????????????????????????


----------



## z9-ec

ptldM3 said:


> India has produced evidence of an AIM-120C5 complete with serial numbers. It is 100% real and 100% proves F-16s were involved. But continue pandering conspiracies.



WHAT EVIDENCE? TAIWANESE AIM-120C5 ?

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## Windjammer

Some butt hurt Raj type of analyst is posting this nonsense.....i guess they need some big time delusional videos to soften the blows.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832


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## NA71

I think one two more misadventure attempts from IAF on its way...they are not gonna stay humiliated for long...even western media has started making fun of their claims

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## qamsss

Telescopic Sight said:


> Can you share it? Thanks


I tried but it says wrong format


----------



## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> Nice logic there. I never claimed there was hard evidence of either Pakistan losing an F-16 or India losing an MKI. You claim there is no video evidence of a "viper" yet you adamantly insist an MKI or Mig-29 got destroyed yet you have *zero evidence *yourself.



Because a twin seater certainly seems to have gone down. The PAF claims two aircraft were brought down, and eyewitnesses report seeing two pilots eject from an aircraft. Indian media also has what seems to be 2nd recording of another aircraft going down. 

They can't be Vipers for various reasons that have already been elaborated upon, and they can't be another Fishbed because the evidence indicates a dual seater was brought down. This leaves a Flanker, since the IAF didn't bring Fulcrums to the mission and the Flanker is the dual-seater it has stationed in that particular area.

I will be willing to cede my point if more evidence can be brought which indicates otherwise.



ptldM3 said:


> India has produced evidence of an AIM-120C5 complete with serial numbers. It is 100% real and 100% proves F-16s were involved. But continue pandering conspiracies.



Whose serial number was traced to a Taiwanese sale. Not only that, but it could have been fired in a separate incident, and it doesn't indicate Pakistan was lying at all. The ISPR simply denied they were used in the offensive raid, they could have fired from across the LOC.


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## Telescopic Sight

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Let me be like Indian media. PAF farted on 2 Su-30MKI and rest is history!



Seriously mistaken here. Can you hear the Kannada spoken in the beginning ? I am sure that you know this clip is of the Aerobatic Display Team crash in bangalore last month. Hawks.
Yet, to score some unknown brownie points some people share this . Good, keep it up.

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## Taimur Khurram

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Let me be like Indian media. PAF farted on 2 Su-30MKI and rest is history!



I seriously want to know what the hell this is.

@Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer


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## Bilal Khan 777

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor



JF17s.

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## ptldM3

z9-ec said:


> WHAT EVIDENCE? TAIWANESE AIM-120C5 ?




They were sold the same batch. I already posted links. Try google.



http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3384


http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26...issiles-were-used-by-pakistan-in-aerial-brawl

Some claimed that the contract number shown on the missile fragment identified it as one shipped to Taiwan, suggesting the evidence was fabricated. *However, this contract was actually a larger U.S. Foreign Military Sales deal that did involve deliveries to Pakistan.*


----------



## Bilal Khan 777

Taimur Khurram said:


> I seriously want to know what the hell this is.
> 
> @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer



Some training aircraft in mid-air collision?

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## PurpleButcher

IF THE MISSILE REALLY BELONGS TO PAKISTAN 

What if the AIM-120C5 missile was fired on the night of Balakot attack by F-16s against IAF. How does showing the missile prove that it was from the same day?


----------



## Gorgin Khan

Windjammer said:


> Some butt hurt Raj type of analyst is posting this nonsense.....i guess they need some big time delusional videos to soften the blows.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832


 
On thing is proven in the video , both the aircraft are thunders. Another dillema for indians.

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## MikeZulu

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


2nd one was surely a JF-17 or low chances a viper .. First one idk why seems a Su-30 because if u pause at the right moment when the first jet is at the top of screen .. You can see a canard edge pointing out. Just my observation.


----------



## AsianLion

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor




WTH was that! Its like a WVR Within Visual Range chase, and I donot see a Mig-21 Bison. Look both a Jf17 & a F-16 together.

And then How the hell then your Air Chief showed a BVR (Beyond Visual Range) more than 100 km distance AIM-20 C5 Missile on screen as a F16 shot down.

JF-17s, Mirages were frontline offensive jets used with escort missions run by F16s.


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Some training aircraft in mid-air collision?



Looks like it. Wings have a funny shape about them and I see no steam/fire that indicates a missile hit. 

@Windjammer 

Can you confirm anything?


----------



## z9-ec

ptldM3 said:


> They were sold the same batch. I already posted links. Try google.
> 
> 
> 
> http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3384
> 
> 
> http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26...issiles-were-used-by-pakistan-in-aerial-brawl
> 
> Some claimed that the contract number shown on the missile fragment identified it as one shipped to Taiwan, suggesting the evidence was fabricated. *However, this contract was actually a larger U.S. Foreign Military Sales deal that did involve deliveries to Pakistan.*




Those links don't prove anything.

It stands as is.. The one IAF displayed was indeed TAIWANESE AIM-120C5


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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> Seriously mistaken here. Can you hear the Kannada spoken in the beginning ? I am sure that you know this clip is of the Aerobatic Display Team crash in bangalore last month. Hawks.
> Yet, to score some unknown brownie points some people share this . Good, keep it up.


this is a sarcasm. both jets collided in mid air but i was trying to be like indian media where they make up stories and u fell for it.


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## MikeZulu

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


Also the first aircraft is appearing longer than the 2nd one

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## Dazzler

Second aircraft going down...

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## Maxpane

both jf 17 one looks green and other one metal grey . am not ecpert

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## Telescopic Sight

Myth_buster_1 said:


> this is a sarcasm. both jets collided in mid air but i was trying to be like indian media where they make up stories and u fell for it.


Got it ! Sorry, I had a senior moment


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## NA71

Taimur Khurram said:


> Looks like it. Wings have a funny shape about them and I see no steam/fire that indicates a missile hit.
> 
> @Windjammer
> 
> Can you confirm anything?


How about flying two RCAs and filmed them for Indian Media consumption ;-)


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## Telescopic Sight

Dazzler said:


> Second aircraft going down...



I think it seems to be the same one. But in either case, the number of cell phone clips that are being circulated tell us that there is no way that India can hide a second jet shoot down. 
I am more and more convinced that Abhi's Bison is the only IAF loss. 

On a separate note, why are all these clips having Punjabi speaking folks?


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## PakAlp

Both sides are on the agreement: 

1 helicopter fell
2 fighter jets fell and:
1 fighter jet was single seater 
1 fighter jet was a dual seater

1 single jet fighter down video is available and pilot captured. mig21 Bison- CONFIRMED

Dual seater fighter jet a big mystery. Pakistan saying it fell on the Indian side and India is saying it fell on the Pakistani side. 

Indian Kashmir - Aljazeera reported on a crashed plane with the police officer saying we found 2 dead bodies, also saying it's a fighter jet and not a helicopter.

Pakistan Kashmir. The people are saying they saw 2 pilots falling from the sky, 1 fell in Pakistan kashmir who is caught and another fell and disappeared. It could be he fell in Indian kashmir. Pakistan army spokesperson said Pakistan caught 3 pilots, then said 2 pilots and then 1 pilot. Many Pakistanis are also saying Pakistan has the other pilot but he has died and Pakistan is hiding the facts in order to avoid letting the situation get out of hand.

I would conclude that its 100% confirmed from both sides that 1 helicopter went down, and 1 mig21 went down and lastly 1 dual seater fighter jet went down.

The Indian side need to confirm what plane Aljazeera was showing and why the police people were saying it's fighter jet and we found 2 people dead, why couldn't they see 5 more dead bodies? And need to stop being childish by carrying a missile around and saying we shot Pakistani plane.

The Pakistani side need to ask why did the army confirm 3 pilots were captured, then changed the statement to 2 captured and then 1 captured. They also said 1 is in hospital and 1 in custody but then said it's only 1 pilot. Pakistani side also needs to stop making childish comments like we are hiding their pilots. Indian is doing propaganda that they are your pilots and you are claiming we are hiding Indian pilots. Doesn't make any sense. 

I know the Indians have already said that Aljazeera plane video is of the Helicopter and no other video or photo is available regarding any other plane.

Pakistan is clearly showing the video of the fighter jet falling and also of the pilot. The local people went there and captured him. 

If we believe these 2 versions then the 3rd confirmed dual seater plane which was shot has just disappeared in the air, no proof is available, no video, no photo. This is from both sides. Keep in mind. The people on the Pakistani who saw the plane could have mistaken the plane falling for the pilot. The general public cannot identify 100% but from the video it looked like 1 plane and 1 pilot. 

So despite all the propaganda and twisting of facts. The end result is that the dual seater fighter jet has just disappeared. No video proof, no photo. 

It may as well be 1 single seater fell and 1 helicopter fell. No other fighter jet fell. That is why no video proof, photo proof is available. If the Pakistani public can get the video of the Indian pilot and of the mig21 then I am 100% sure they can take the video of the dual seater and of the other pilots.

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## Dazzler



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## Telescopic Sight

PakAlp said:


> Both sides are on the agreement:
> 
> 1 helicopter fell
> 2 fighter jets fell and:
> 1 fighter jet was single seater
> 1 fighter jet was a dual seater
> 
> 1 single jet fighter down video is available and pilot captured. mig21 Bison- CONFIRMED
> 
> Dual seater fighter jet a big mystery. Pakistan saying it fell on the Indian side and India is saying it fell on the Pakistani side.
> 
> Indian Kashmir - Aljazeera reported on a crashed plane with the police officer saying we found 2 dead bodies, also saying it's a fighter jet and not a helicopter.
> 
> Pakistan Kashmir. The people are saying they saw 2 pilots falling from the sky, 1 fell in Pakistan kashmir who is caught and another fell and disappeared. It could be he fell in Indian kashmir. Pakistan army spokesperson said Pakistan caught 3 pilots, then said 2 pilots and then 1 pilot. Many Pakistanis are also saying Pakistan has the other pilot but he has died and Pakistan is hiding the facts in order to avoid letting the situation get out of hand.
> 
> I would conclude that its 100% confirmed from both sides that 1 helicopter went down, and 1 mig21 went down and lastly 1 dual seater fighter jet went down.
> 
> The Indian side need to confirm what plane Aljazeera was showing and why the police people were saying it's fighter jet and we found 2 people dead, why couldn't they see 5 more dead bodies? And need to stop being childish by carrying a missile around and saying we shot Pakistani plane.
> 
> The Pakistani side need to ask why did the army confirm 3 pilots were captured, then changed the statement to 2 captured and then 1 captured. They also said 1 is in hospital and 1 in custody but then said it's only 1 pilot. Pakistani side also needs to stop making childish comments like we are hiding their pilots. Indian is doing propaganda that they are your pilots and you are claiming we are hiding Indian pilots. Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I know the Indians have already said that Aljazeera plane video is of the Helicopter and no other video or photo is available regarding any other plane.
> 
> Pakistan is clearly showing the video of the fighter jet falling and also of the pilot. The local people went there and captured him.
> 
> If we believe these 2 versions then the 3rd confirmed dual seater plane which was shot has just disappeared in the air, no proof is available, no video, no photo. This is from both sides. Keep in mind. The people on the Pakistani who saw the plane could have mistaken the plane falling for the pilot. The general public cannot identify 100% but from the video it looked like 1 plane and 1 pilot.
> 
> So despite all the propaganda and twisting of facts. The end result is that the dual seater fighter jet has just disappeared. No video proof, no photo.
> 
> It may as well be 1 single seater fell and 1 helicopter fell. No other fighter jet fell. That is why no video proof, photo proof is available. If the Pakistani public can get the video of the Indian pilot and of the mig21 then I am 100% sure they can take the video of the dual seater and of the other pilots.



What a well thought out post! Thank you.
The Al Jazeera clip is of the chopper , no doubt.
One possibility to consider is whether the PAF had anything to do with the chopper crash. Unlikely though , since the distance from this chopper crash is more than 100 miles away to Rajouri , where the jets clashed.


----------



## AsianLion

ptldM3 said:


> So were are those jets? Were is the wreckage? Someone would have surly taken cell phone video/photos. How wouldn't eye witnesses even tell the difference between Indian and Pakistani aircraft/pilots from thousands of feet?
> 
> I'm 100% using evidence, you on the other hand are giving me rumors and conspiracies.



Yes All what the eye witnesses are saying is that they are Indian Jets buring on ground, no sign or tail sign of a single Pakistani jet. All the videos/photos concretely proved they are Indian Jets, 2 Fights + 1 Helicopter. 



> No Mig-29s were ever involved. Instead Mirages and SU-30MKI were dispatched to deal with approaching Pakistani aircraft but they never violated Pakistani airspace unlike the Mig-21 which chased Pakistani aircraft. The Mig-21/s were in the area alone, the Mirages and MKIs never pressed the attack into Pakistani controlled airspace, they deterred F-16 (yes Pakistan used F-16 despite the denials).
> 
> There was the one Mig-21 and it got shot down. The rest of your argument is nonsense.



You do look like making a joke out of IAF by saying that Mig 21 were offensive jets, and while superior Mig 29 and Su30 Mkis were just point defence. Are you out of ur mind that Mig21s were only used across border, thats what u are trying to say at the heightened stage of high alert and eye ball to eye. So in essence u have accepted that only Indian Israeli pathetic Mig 21 Bison brave enough to cross into Pakistani airspace and the vast superior did not have guts to chase Pakistan jets.

Second Pakistan denied using F16s as offensive jets into enemy territory, they were up in air, escorting in formation with sharp ingressing Mirages and especially the deadly JF17 Thunders. You just elucidated to the fact that IAF was squarely defeated in aerial dog fight formation too.



> Pakistan didn't even claim to have downed a helicopter so even Pakistani claims contradict your claims and yes helicopters do break up in mid air due to stress fractures in the tail and or the roters. In war time you would be shocked how many helicopters NATO lost in Afghanistan and Iraq due to mechanical malfunctions. During war attrition rates are much higher than in piece time due to high sorties and sometimes hastily rushing aircraft before they are ready.
> 
> NATO including contract aircraft lost 167 aircraft in Afghanistan. Only 35 were from hostile fire including ones destroyed on the ground.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan



Official Pakistan will never claim to down a Mi-17 Helicopter, cuz our official stance is no casualty was made or military target was hit. OK!!

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## Taimur Khurram

Dazzler said:


>



That's a chopper isn't it?


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## MikeZulu

PakAlp said:


> Both sides are on the agreement:
> 
> 1 helicopter fell
> 2 fighter jets fell and:
> 1 fighter jet was single seater
> 1 fighter jet was a dual seater
> 
> 1 single jet fighter down video is available and pilot captured. mig21 Bison- CONFIRMED
> 
> Dual seater fighter jet a big mystery. Pakistan saying it fell on the Indian side and India is saying it fell on the Pakistani side.
> 
> Indian Kashmir - Aljazeera reported on a crashed plane with the police officer saying we found 2 dead bodies, also saying it's a fighter jet and not a helicopter.
> 
> Pakistan Kashmir. The people are saying they saw 2 pilots falling from the sky, 1 fell in Pakistan kashmir who is caught and another fell and disappeared. It could be he fell in Indian kashmir. Pakistan army spokesperson said Pakistan caught 3 pilots, then said 2 pilots and then 1 pilot. Many Pakistanis are also saying Pakistan has the other pilot but he has died and Pakistan is hiding the facts in order to avoid letting the situation get out of hand.
> 
> I would conclude that its 100% confirmed from both sides that 1 helicopter went down, and 1 mig21 went down and lastly 1 dual seater fighter jet went down.
> 
> The Indian side need to confirm what plane Aljazeera was showing and why the police people were saying it's fighter jet and we found 2 people dead, why couldn't they see 5 more dead bodies? And need to stop being childish by carrying a missile around and saying we shot Pakistani plane.
> 
> The Pakistani side need to ask why did the army confirm 3 pilots were captured, then changed the statement to 2 captured and then 1 captured. They also said 1 is in hospital and 1 in custody but then said it's only 1 pilot. Pakistani side also needs to stop making childish comments like we are hiding their pilots. Indian is doing propaganda that they are your pilots and you are claiming we are hiding Indian pilots. Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I know the Indians have already said that Aljazeera plane video is of the Helicopter and no other video or photo is available regarding any other plane.
> 
> Pakistan is clearly showing the video of the fighter jet falling and also of the pilot. The local people went there and captured him.
> 
> If we believe these 2 versions then the 3rd confirmed dual seater plane which was shot has just disappeared in the air, no proof is available, no video, no photo. This is from both sides. Keep in mind. The people on the Pakistani who saw the plane could have mistaken the plane falling for the pilot. The general public cannot identify 100% but from the video it looked like 1 plane and 1 pilot.
> 
> So despite all the propaganda and twisting of facts. The end result is that the dual seater fighter jet has just disappeared. No video proof, no photo.
> 
> It may as well be 1 single seater fell and 1 helicopter fell. No other fighter jet fell. That is why no video proof, photo proof is available. If the Pakistani public can get the video of the Indian pilot and of the mig21 then I am 100% sure they can take the video of the dual seater and of the other pilots.


I mentioned in some other thread a possibility. Maybe Pakistan has the other pilots and is using them to get information and secrets of IAF and their aircrafts. Couldn't get from ABHI as his video went viral so we had to return it. And India isn't claiming the other pilots due to embarrasment.
Please I would like your thoughts on it @Windjammer

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## NA71

two seater crash video will suddenly be appeared. wait

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## Telescopic Sight

Not Chandigarh either. Kashmir location is so obvious. The poster knows, but yet shares to increase post count.


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## Windjammer

Taimur Khurram said:


> I seriously want to know what the hell this is.
> 
> @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer


The IAF Hawk colliding during their practice for Banglore Airshow.

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## Taimur Khurram

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> JF17s.



Am I the only one who sees the first plane as a Fishbed lol?


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## AsianLion

ptldM3 said:


> The Bison shot down is essential not even Russian. It used Israeli F-16 avionics and Russia hasn't used the Mig-21 in decades it was also built in India.
> 
> Your bogus conspiracies got busted now you are tap dancing.



All you are trying to defend is a Russian ego as russia sold Mig. yes they are no more Russian.....Mig21 is more Israeli then a Russian, happy.

But 2 IAF fighters shot down, one helicopter down is what is the state of fact loss for IAF, and 0 for PAF. Period.


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## Muhammad Omar

I couldn't make it more clear the video of 2 jets scrambling the aircrafts are JF-17

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## Dazzler

Taimur Khurram said:


> That's a chopper isn't it?



No. Its the aircraft. 
Apologies for sharing this due to the condition of the pilot. But it's an evidence of the second victim that fell the other side of the border. 

Pilot pilot they shout. Poor chap died in the same poster as if in the ejection seat. Feel for him

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## ptldM3

Taimur Khurram said:


> Because a twin seater certainly seems to have gone down. The PAF claims two aircraft were brought down,





Like India Pakistan has bend the truth and used misinformation. Pakistani has produced zero evidence of destroying a twin seat aircraft nor was any Mig-29 or Sukhoi anywhere near the incident, a fact you convinently deny.

You can't destroy something that isn't there.






Taimur Khurram said:


> and eyewitnesses report seeing two pilots eject from an aircraft. Indian media also has what seems to be 2nd recording of another aircraft going down.





Again remind everyone where these incidents were recorded interesting how it was in Pakistan controlled Kashmir but Pakistan cannot come up with any wreckage. Show us video or photo evidence. Everyone has cell phones these days, most indian piece time crashes produced video/photos but why is there none of this phantom MKI? Pakistani media cerculates old Mig-21 wreckage/injured pilot claiming they shot down it down.







Taimur Khurram said:


> They can't be Vipers for various reasons that have already been elaborated upon, and they can't be another Fishbed because the evidence indicates a dual seater was brought down. This leaves a Flanker, since the IAF didn't bring Fulcrums to the mission and the Flanker is the dual-seater it has stationed in that particular area.
> 
> I will be willing to cede my point if more evidence can be brought which indicates otherwise.






Once again, no MKI was was in the area, Pakistan also does have twin seat F-16s





Taimur Khurram said:


> Whose serial number was traced to a Taiwanese sale. Not only that, but it could have been fired in a separate incident, and it doesn't indicate Pakistan was lying at all. The ISPR simply denied they were used in the offensive raid, they could have fired from across the LOC.






Again the DOD sold Pakistan and Taiwane the same batch of missiles. I already provided official links proving it.

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## Taimur Khurram

Muhammad Omar said:


> I couldn't make it more clear the video of 2 jets scrambling the aircrafts are JF-17
> 
> View attachment 543421
> View attachment 543422



First one is clearly a MiG-21 lol.

@Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer

Back me up guys lol.



Dazzler said:


> No. Its the aircraft.



Anything in higher quality? It's difficult to make-out.

What does the guy recording say (I wasn't really listening tbh and my Urdu is poor)?

And what type of aircraft was it? Flanker? Fishbed?


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## CHACHA"G"

Here are some screen shots from the video posted...…….. Look at Birds ….. Their seize …… Colour …….. Air intake …….. Back...………. And I am sure no payload ………… Please also look at *Flag* ………… And that in air electrical wiring and that electrical Pole...…… And check the colour of the Jet in last pic.....
*Most Importnatly all action happened in Kashmir Region...….. So where the fuk Mountains gone ??*

Jet Number 1









Jet Number 2











Flag and jet(2)













Some one with better software can do the better job...……..
@The Eagle , @Windjammer , @HRK , @Dazzler , @denel , @gambit , @Irfan Baloch , @Bilal Khan 777 , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) , @Sugarcane , @M.Musa ,@Taimur Khurram , @Muhammad Omar , @AsianUnion , @Yaseen1 , @zulu

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## MikeZulu

Taimur Khurram said:


> First one is clearly a MiG-21 lol.
> 
> @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer
> 
> Back me up guys lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything in higher quality? It's difficult to make-out.
> 
> What does the guy recording say (I wasn't really listening tbh and my Urdu is poor)?
> 
> And what type of aircraft was it? Flanker? Fishbed?



Could be .. First one seems bit longer than the 2nd one and Mig 21 has a longer nose .. Distance from wings to front

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## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> Pakistani has produced zero evidence of destroying a twin seat aircraft nor was any Mig-29 or Sukhoi anywhere near the incident, a fact you convinently deny.



India itself literally said it sent a Sukhoi, and we have videos of people literally saying they saw two pilots eject from a falling aircraft, and we have a video of the falling aircraft itself. 



ptldM3 said:


> Again remind everyone where these incidents were recorded interesting how it was in Pakistan controlled Kashmir



Could have fallen in IOK. 



ptldM3 said:


> but why is there none of this phantom MKI?



Maybe it will show up later like that other video. 



ptldM3 said:


> Again the DOD sold Pakistan and Taiwane the same batch of missiles. I already provided official links proving it.



Post it again please (or at least direct me to the page/post number).

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## ptldM3

AsianUnion said:


> All you are trying to defend is a Russian ego as russia sold Mig. yes they are no more Russian.....Mig21 is more Israeli then a Russian, happy.
> 
> But 2 IAF fighters shot down, one helicopter down is what is the state of fact loss for IAF, and 0 for PAF. Period.





There is no two Indian fighters shot down that has been debunked long ago. There is 1 Indian Mi-17 that crashes but Pakistani never claimed it shot down any helicopters and India said it was mechanical.

As for accusing me defending Russian Migs, those Migs are more Israeli then Russian and I could care less if Pakistan shot down a 60 year old aircraft with Israeli systems.
I'm here keeping people like you in check. Stop pushing wild conspiracies.

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## Windjammer

Taimur Khurram said:


> First one is clearly a MiG-21 lol.
> 
> @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer
> 
> Back me up guys lol.


No dude, look at the shape of the wing, it's not complete Delta, it's JF-17.

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## Taimur Khurram

Windjammer said:


> No dude, look at the shape of the wing, it's not complete Delta, it's JF-17.



OK. I trust you more than me so I will take your word for it.

So I take it the explosion caught at the end was these aircraft interacting with one of the IAF's aircraft?


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## Myth_buster_1

Dazzler said:


> No. Its the aircraft.
> Apologies for sharing this due to the condition of the pilot. But it's an evidence of the second victim that fell the other side of the border.
> 
> Pilot pilot they shout. Poor chap died in the same poster as if in the ejection seat. Feel for him



either its a chopper pilot since he is next to wreckage or a bigger jet was shot down in low altitude and was not able to eject on time.


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## Telescopic Sight

Dazzler said:


> No. Its the aircraft.
> Apologies for sharing this due to the condition of the pilot. But it's an evidence of the second victim that fell the other side of the border.
> 
> Pilot pilot they shout. Poor chap died in the same poster as if in the ejection seat. Feel for him



There must be a 1000 posts on this very forum showing the same helicopter crash in Budgam. Yet posters will share the same crash with a new name. 
Are you doing this purposely?


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## Khanivore

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101506808999538689

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## Pakhtoon yum



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## ptldM3

Taimur Khurram said:


> India itself literally said it sent a Sukhoi, and we have videos of people literally saying they saw two pilots eject from a falling aircraft, and we have a video of the falling aircraft itself.





The two MKI were no were near the incident. The falling aircraft was obviously the Mig-21 that was shot down and still not a single person has shown wreckage of this supposed MKI. Which obviously never happened. It's pathetic how desperate some some people are getting.






Taimur Khurram said:


> Could have fallen in IOK.




Where is the wreckage, where is the photos? Where is Pakistani HUD footage? Where are the pilots? Give it up already, no MKI was ever shot down. Everyone besides Pakistanis believe that propaganda.







Taimur Khurram said:


> Post it again please (or at least direct me to the page/post number).






http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3384

http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26...issiles-were-used-by-pakistan-in-aerial-brawl

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## SSGcommandoPAK



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## denel

Taimur Khurram said:


> I seriously want to know what the hell this is.
> 
> @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer


definitely neither migs or jf17s or f16s.... looks more like Bae Hawks.


Forget even this.... look at the blooming trees friends.... coconut palms. who is the idiot that posted this? 

Since when do palm trees grow in kashmir?

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## Malik Shani

Guys, According to some actual videos, Air engagement happened at much higher altitude. So the video recently shared seem to be captured somewhere else during routine JF-17 CAP mission.


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## PakAlp

MikeZulu said:


> I mentioned in some other thread a possibility. Maybe Pakistan has the other pilots and is using them to get information and secrets of IAF and their aircrafts. Couldn't get from ABHI as his video went viral so we had to return it. And India isn't claiming the other pilots due to embarrasment.
> Please I would like your thoughts on it @Windjammer


A lot of people are mentioning this but the Indians are saying they are f16 pilots. So realistically Pakistan need to confirm the identity of the pilots but official confirmation is Pakistan caught 1 pilot. He went to hospital for his injuries and then was taken to custody and had some tea

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## MikeZulu




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## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> and still not a single person has shown wreckage of this supposed MKI.



Maybe it will come out soon. 



ptldM3 said:


> Where is Pakistani HUD footage?



Again, it may come out later when tensions die down. 



ptldM3 said:


> Where are the pilots?



Pakistan was initially searching for three, but only found two. One was sent to the hospital but seems to have died since ISPR changed the story to just one.


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## NA71

Breaking news : On his way to India ....in video mssg Indian Captive pilot said ...he was shootdown by PAF fighter jet while he was searching target. *He said he did not hit any F-16 at all.*


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## PakAlp

Taimur Khurram said:


> Pakistan was initially searching for three, but only found two. One was sent to the hospital but seems to have died since ISPR changed the story to just one.



I think it must have been the 1 pilot. He was taken to hospital for his injuries and as he wasn't injured much he was taken to custody. The captured Indian pilot confirmed he was taken to the hospital and then to custody.

Pakistan says Indian plane fell in to Indian kashmir and am sure the pilots must have fell there too or died during the fall.


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## CHACHA"G"

denel said:


> definitely neither migs or jf17s or f16s.... looks more like Bae Hawks.
> 
> 
> Forget even this.... look at the blooming trees friends.... coconut palms. who is the idiot that posted this?
> 
> Since when do palm trees grow in kashmir?


That is what I said .. in my post..... Look at the seize and colour of Jets...…. And That Electrical Wiring and Electrical Pole...…….. And no mountains or high ground … ….. and those treesssssssss

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## Myth_buster_1

ptldM3 said:


> As for accusing me defending Russian Migs, those Migs are more Israeli then Russian and I could care less if Pakistan shot down a 60 year old aircraft with Israeli systems.
> I'm here keeping people like you in check. Stop pushing wild conspiracies.



Wrong, these Mig-21 were produced in early 1980s and are heavily upgraded so these are not 60 year old technology.

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## ptldM3

Taimur Khurram said:


> Maybe it will come out soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it may come out later when tensions die down.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan was initially searching for three, but only found two. One was sent to the hospital but seems to have died since ISPR changed the story to just one.





Pakistan never recovered 2 pilots, stop spreading obscurely stupid propaganda.


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## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3384
> 
> http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26...issiles-were-used-by-pakistan-in-aerial-brawl



I'm aware of the whole contract thing, but wasn't this particular missile given to Taiwan? And how does it prove Vipers crossed the border? They could have fired it from the other side, and that's a perfectly reasonable assumption since Pakistan claims the aircraft were fired at as they tried to enter Pakistani airspace.


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## ptldM3

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Wrong, these Mig-21 were produced in early 1980s and are heavily upgraded so these are not 60 year old technology.




No you are wrong. The design dates back to the 1950s, I also stated in had Israeli avionics, i never said it was original I fact I said it was produced by HAL which is obviously impossible for it to be produced 60 years ago.


----------



## PakAlp

ptldM3 said:


> Pakistan never recovered 2 pilots, stop spreading obscurely stupid propaganda.


Pakistan at first said this but later changed to 1 pilot captured. He was the same pilot taken to the hospital for treatment and then he was taken to custody. He wasn't injured much so he was in the hospital for a short time.

The 2nd plane fell in Indian Kashmir with the pilots


----------



## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> Pakistan never recovered 2 pilots, stop spreading obscurely stupid propaganda.



Lmao yes it did, the ISPR's early tweets said this as did the press briefing. One of them was sent to the hospital, and it seems he died but Pakistan is keeping mute so India doesn't get too triggered.


----------



## mshan44

How to become an Indian Hero 1: Violate Pakistani Airspace
2: realize you are effed up 
3: run for your life 
4: get groped by a JF17 
5: Eject your plane 6: get your arse kicked by a mob 
7: get saved by Army 
8: slurp your tea, loud and clear 
9: go home 
10: You are a hero

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## ptldM3

PakAlp said:


> Pakistan at first said this but later changed to 1 pilot captured. He was the same pilot taken to the hospital for treatment and then he was taken to custody. He wasn't injured much so he was in the hospital for a short time.
> 
> The 2nd plane fell in Indian Kashmir with the pilots




There is no second plane, this conspiracy has been dubunked long ago. Read my previous posts as to why it's rediculous and has zero factual evidence. Not even a single photo of the wreckage or pilots nor has Pakistan produced even HUD footage.


----------



## PakAlp

Taimur Khurram said:


> Lmao yes it did, the ISPR's early tweets said this as did the press briefing. One of them was sent to the hospital, and it seems he died but Pakistan is keeping mute so India doesn't get too triggered.


Is their any proof for this, except some early tweets. Because India is doing propaganda that Pakistan is holding downed f16 pilots. So it will be beneficial for Pakistan to reveal the pilots identity to give India a befetting reply. 
What more can India be triggered. They already sent their airforce in to our border. Lost 1 helicopter and lost 1 plane. Confirmed. 

I would go with official Pakistan sources who say 1 pilot captured and he will be released to please Modi Sarkar

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## denel

as per BBC now Indian media is in BS tirade when the pilot has said Indian media exagerates always

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## Taimur Khurram

PakAlp said:


> Is their any proof for this, except some early tweets. Because India is doing propaganda that Pakistan is holding downed f16 pilots. So it will be beneficial for Pakistan to reveal the pilots identity to give India a befetting reply.
> What more can India be triggered. They already sent their airforce in to our border. Lost 1 helicopter and lost 1 plane. Confirmed.
> 
> I would go with official Pakistan sources who say 1 pilot captured and he will be released to please Modi Sarkar



Watch the press briefing. He says it.

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## PakAlp

ptldM3 said:


> There is no second plane, this conspiracy has been dubunked long ago. Read my previous posts as to why it's rediculous and has zero factual evidence. Not even a single photo of the wreckage or pilots nor has Pakistan produced even HUD footage.


Okay so only 1 mig21 plane fell and 1 helicopter.

MYSTERY SOLVED

To be honest I wouldn't bet the public 100% could say they saw 2 pilots or 3 pilots. Normally the same public sees 2 moons. P

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## Arsalan 345

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-india-vaishno-devi-shrine-1467643-2019-02-28


----------



## MikeZulu

SSGcommandoPAK said:


>


He said that he was searching for a target when he was shot down. Means the indian claims that he shot down a Viper before going down are now dust lol 
And lets see how Indian media reacts to this, probably would say the video is edited n this n that lol

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## ptldM3

Taimur Khurram said:


> Lmao yes it did, the ISPR's early tweets said this as did the press briefing. One of them was sent to the hospital, and it seems he died but Pakistan is keeping mute so India doesn't get too triggered.




Lord have mercy on your soul 

I seen a tweet about lizard people and UFOs. There is zero shred of evidence of a second Indian pilot, again no photos of this pilots aircraft exits nor is there photos of him shortly after the crash or in the hospital which is ironic because because Pakistan parades the downed Mig-21 and the pilot.

You need to put yourself in someone else's shoes, if an Indian made the same baseless statements as you that India recovered a dead Pakistani pilot you would not believe it either.


----------



## Muhammad Omar

CHACHA"G" said:


> Here are some screen shots from the video posted...…….. Look at Birds ….. Their seize …… Colour …….. Air intake …….. Back...………. And I am sure no payload ………… Please also look at *Flag* ………… And that in air electrical wiring and that electrical Pole...…… And check the colour of the Jet in last pic.....
> *Most Importnatly all action happened in Kashmir Region...….. So where the fuk Mountains gone ??*
> 
> Jet Number 1
> View attachment 543423
> 
> View attachment 543420
> 
> 
> Jet Number 2
> View attachment 543424
> View attachment 543424
> View attachment 543425
> 
> 
> Flag and jet(2)
> View attachment 543426
> 
> View attachment 543427
> 
> View attachment 543428
> 
> 
> Some one with better software can do the better job...……..
> @The Eagle , @Windjammer , @HRK , @Dazzler , @denel , @gambit , @Irfan Baloch , @Bilal Khan 777 , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) , @Sugarcane , @M.Musa ,@Taimur Khurram , @Muhammad Omar , @AsianUnion , @Yaseen1 , @zulu


Awesome specially that Flag part

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## Taimur Khurram

ptldM3 said:


> Lord have mercy on your soul



He won't have mercy on yours, for obvious reasons. 



ptldM3 said:


> There is zero shred of evidence of a second Indian pilot,



1. Eyewitnesses saw multiple people eject. 

2. There are clearly multiple videos showing different encounters. 

3. The ISPR claimed it and shifted position. There's no reason to do so unless the pilot came from a Viper (which we've already established as being false) or if the pilot died and Pakistan is trying to defuse the tension.

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## Myth_buster_1

ptldM3 said:


> No you are wrong. The design dates back to the 1950s, I also stated in had Israeli avionics, i never said it was original I fact I said it was produced by HAL which is obviously impossible for it to be produced 60 years ago.



Do you understand the difference between produced and designed? Bison airfraims are old as F-16 block 15 thus not 60 year old planes.

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## MikeZulu

ptldM3 said:


> Lord have mercy on your soul
> 
> I seen a tweet about lizard people and UFOs. There is zero shred of evidence of a second Indian pilot, again no photos of this pilots aircraft exits nor is there photos of him shortly after the crash or in the hospital which is ironic because because Pakistan parades the downed Mig-21 and the pilot.
> 
> You need to put yourself in someone else's shoes, if an Indian made the same baseless statements as you that India recovered a dead Pakistani pilot you would not believe it either.


Pretty sure that the tweets about lizards and UFO weren't done by a two-star military general, or were they?


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

ptldM3 said:


> India has produced evidence of an AIM-120C5 complete with serial numbers. It is 100% real and 100% proves F-16s were involved. But continue pandering conspiracies.


and what if they were involved? we weren't being offensive with them. Indian aircraft intruded into OUR airspace and got whooped for it.


----------



## monitor

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Do you understand the difference between produced and designed? Bison airfraims are old as F-16 block 15 thus not 60 year old planes.



Its based on original Mig-21 which design and developed in 1960. but upgraded as Bison


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101151256582737953


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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101481104522076160you're using our videos tho, I would accept the biggest film producing country in the world to be more original.

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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101483533837713409


----------



## Oruc

m52k85 said:


> Can someone translate for those us who are only urdu speaking


they are saying these pilots will land on our side. but aircaft will drop on other side.
they shall say they shot it etc. then someone asks about pilot and somebdy replies he is with parachute.


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## AsianLion

Logical Pakistani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101481104522076160you're using our videos tho, I would accept the biggest film producing country in the world to be more original.




Yar where are there any missiles on JF17, do not see any, how is it hot scramble without Missiles of JF17, its just a flyby in peacetime.


----------



## Pak-Canuck

SSGcommandoPAK said:


>




OH MAN this is ultimate trolling by Pak govt, for 2-3 whole days indian media has been barking about this guy shooting down a F-16, and were probably ready to brief him on what to say once he returns (since this guy was under arrest he probably had 0 idea of what IAF and media were saying about him)

And as soon as Pak released him they release this vid in which he says he "came into pak searching for targets and then got shot down by your air force" i.e NOT ENGAGED WITH OR SHOOTING DOWN A F-16. Whatever happened to "I can't talk about that". Yes there are a lot of cuts in the video too, probably just to make it shorter and cut out the questioner's voice. Will see in upcoming days I'm pretty sure. It's looking more and more like Pak govt is waiting for Indians to make fools of themselves before releasing countering evidence bit by bit.

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## mshan44

LOL

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## Maxpane

Logical Pakistani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101481104522076160you're using our videos tho, I would accept the biggest film producing country in the world to be more original.


lol


----------



## mshan44



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## MikeZulu

mshan44 said:


> LOL
> View attachment 543440


Such a disrespect to their so-called hero.. BSF also took him like a prioner is taken away .. The soldier who put an arm around his back was clearly voilating the discipline and it wasn't for solidarity purpose.


----------



## patriotpakistan

SSGcommandoPAK said:


>



Video looks cut off. Where is the full video?


----------



## ptldM3

MikeZulu said:


> Pretty sure that the tweets about lizards and UFO weren't done by a two-star military general, or were they?




That this point that two star general would have a more believable story if he tweeted about lizard people and UFOs because he has egg on his face at this point. Many powerful people tweet stupid BS like Trump, Elizabeth Warren, etc.


----------



## atya

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101515244973768704


----------



## ghazi52

Return

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101520358312738817

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## ptldM3

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Do you understand the difference between produced and designed? Bison airfraims are old as F-16 block 15 thus not 60 year old planes.




I clearly said the Mig-21 design dates back to the 1950s, I never said the particular Mig-21 that was shot down was 60 years old. This is important because some Pakistani accused me of being angry about India losing a "Russian" aircraft. I told him it wasn't Russian but Indian and had Israeli avionics and was prodded in India and that Russia retired the aircraft decades ago. Context matters, yet some people get so fixated that I question their conspiracies that they cling to schematics and off topic rants to deflect.


----------



## mshan44




----------



## ghazi52

*Indian media makes mountain out of molehill, says IAF pilot in new video*
March 1, 2019








Wing Commander Abhinandan again praises Pakistan Army for its professionalism. SCREENGRAB

Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, the captured Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter pilot has once again praised the professional treatment he received during his two-day stay with the Pakistani military moments before he was handed over to the Indian authorities on Friday.

The Indian pilot also admitted that the Indian media exaggerates a lot when it comes to issues related to Pakistan. “They make a mountain out of a molehill,” he can be heard as saying in a new video surfaced on social media on Friday.

The wing commander, who was piloting the Indian Air Force MiG-21 fighter jet downed by the PAF, was captured by villagers in Azad Jammu and Kashmir. They were trying to lynch him before Pakistani troops reached the site to rescue him.

Varthaman, while narrating the whole episode of his capture inside the Pakistani territory, said Pakistani Army personnel protected from being lynched by a mob as he landed in parachute after his MiG-21 fighter jet was shot down by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

“Pakistan Army is a very professional service. I am very impressed with them,” he reiterated.

Transcript: _My name is Wing Commander Abhinandan and I am fighter pilot at Indian Air Force (IAF). I was looking to find the target when your air force shot down my warplane. Thereafter, I was left with no other option but to leave my aircraft which had broken down. I ejected and my parachute opened and I was carrying a pistol … there were many people [on the ground]. I had only one option for safety, I dropped my gun and tried to run away. People followed me and they were full of passion. Then two personnel of Pakistan Army arrived and saved me from [mob]. They kept me safe and took me to their unit where I was given first-aid and then I was taken to a hospital where I was given further medical treatment. Pakistan Army is a very professional service. I am very impressed with them. Indian media exaggerates a lot. They make a mountain out of a molehill_.

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

AsianUnion said:


> Yar where are there any missiles on JF17, do not see any, how is it hot scramble without Missiles of JF17, its just a flyby in peacetime.


point is they used our video

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## Oruc

qamsss said:


> Both are jf17s i have a very clear video.


i agree. both are jf 17s. look at the gap between tailwings and forward wings.


----------



## mshan44

We need English subtitles in Abhinandan confessional video. World needs to hear what he says before Indians twist facts.

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## ptldM3

mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101520358312738817





Most SU-30 pilots are qualified on the Mig-21 as well. The entire Pakistani charade does even make sense as there would be two pilots dead or alive and Pakistan only showed 1 so draw your own conclusion on the varsity of the crap. 

We also have Mig-21 wreckage and zero wreckage or the slightest proof an MKI was shot down.


----------



## mshan44

*India destroyed 4 trees and one crow ... Our prime minister is very sensitive when it come to trees ...*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101488373892558853

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## Oruc

Logical Pakistani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101481104522076160you're using our videos tho, I would accept the biggest film producing country in the world to be more original.


OMG. who is his sane mind would think that fighters would go in a war without any amunition. this seems some previous video.

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## MikeZulu

patriotpakistan said:


> Video looks cut off. Where is the full video?


Will be released later .. Pakistan is just waiting for Indian claims so that they can release other parts to embarrass them. As India said F-16 was shot by Abhinandan so Paksitan posted his confession.
I say, well played by Pakistani <3

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101507990895636480

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## MikeZulu

mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101520358312738817



If its true..
Russians aren't gonna be happy with this anchor. Indians too.
And Lockheed Martin will get to promote F-16 for more years.

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## m52k85

Dazzler said:


>



@Dazzler bhai this is the same helicopter, confirmed when he reaches the spot and pans the camera to show the same houses to the north of the crash site.

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## cerberus

ghazi52 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101507990895636480


WTF 20 cuts in one minutes


----------



## litman

there are some reports according to which the seconf indian jet which paf claimed is actually su 30 which crashed in iok. it was shot down by f-16 using amraam. paf is denying it so that it may anger uncle sam and indians are denying it as it would be too much humiliation for them that their best jet got shot. now they are just trying to cover it up. now the phone call of paf pilot might have been released deliberately as a propaganda to further pressurize indian govt n iaf as they know the true story.

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## AsianLion

cerberus said:


> WTF 20 cuts in one minutes



I agree with you Indian, this honestly has so many cuts, lol, like a lecture, maybe the interviewer questions are being cut from the video.


----------



## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Sentinel_17 said:


> OMG. who is his sane mind would think that fighters would go in a war without any amunition. this seems some previous video.





Logical Pakistani said:


> point is they used our video

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## Oruc

sorry bro. i was not referring to you but to the genius using this video as proof.

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## NA71

cerberus said:


> WTF 20 cuts in one minutes



LIKE YOUR DRAMA KAHANI GHAR GHAR KI....1000 EPISODES


----------



## AsianLion

litman said:


> there are some reports according to which the seconf indian jet which paf claimed is actually su 30 which crashed in iok. it was shot down by f-16 using amraam. paf is denying it so that it may anger uncle sam and indians are denying it as it would be too much humiliation for them that their best jet got shot. now they are just trying to cover it up. now the phone call of paf pilot might have been released deliberately as a propaganda to further pressurize indian govt n iaf as they the true story.




Bro this much is established now, everybody now has deduced and almost confirmed the second Indian jet was either Su30Mki or Mig29 which was shot by Pak F16 AMRAAM 120-C5 Missile 100Km range and fell in IOK. IAF showed in Triservice joint conference AMRAAM missile piece, which means F16 was used. And that's what the both governments are hiding, Pakistan officially said they didnot use F16s, not to antagonise USA and Indians ofcourse can hide the Su30Mki down and also blame Pak it used F16 and only 120-C5 Missile can be fired by F16.

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## BERKEKHAN2

nahmed71 said:


> Breaking news : On his way to India ....in video mssg Indian Captive pilot said ...he was shootdown by PAF fighter jet while he was searching target. *He said he did not hit any F-16 at all.*


Let him give another interview he will say I shot down ACM of PAF 

LoL


----------



## NA71

To all Indians....Pakistan Series " We shell surprise you" is about to release new episode. wait.

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## AsianLion

Some new info :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100717159246901250

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101414042911031298

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## sohail.ishaque

ZedZeeshan said:


> I dont think any further escalation will happen.. India ko tasalee karwa dea hai PAF na..


yeah until they don't get Rafale, they won't do anything silly. Their best fighter jet SU30mki got its azz kicked by JF17 thunerd and with that they can't have air dominance. So they'll wait for rafales now. The war is delayed, not over. Pak needs JF17 block 3 very urgent now.

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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101422258390794240

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## Shabi1

Hoping for quick normalization of things so PAF can share HUD footage and engagement audio recordings without risking further escalations. We have already been promised target lock videos for the ground strike.


----------



## mshan44

https://wnobserver.com/asia/india-t...to-file-law-suit-against-false-indian-claims/

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## The Accountant

ptldM3 said:


> There is no second plane, this conspiracy has been dubunked long ago. Read my previous posts as to why it's rediculous and has zero factual evidence. Not even a single photo of the wreckage or pilots nor has Pakistan produced even HUD footage.


Sack of indian air chief is clear evidence that they r humiliated ... evidence of alot of things r not being shared to not to escalate further ... anyways it will be cleared in a few days who was right and wasnt ... 

So lets close this discussion and a have a sleep in any case victory of this battle belongs to Pakistan ...

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## SABRE

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 543461
> 
> 
> https://wnobserver.com/asia/india-t...to-file-law-suit-against-false-indian-claims/
> 
> View attachment 543462



I am getting the first 3 types of headaches now reading Indian coThe fourth. Fourth one is a sort of medicine for me.


----------



## Dazzler

CHACHA"G" said:


> Here are some screen shots from the video posted...…….. Look at Birds ….. Their seize …… Colour …….. Air intake …….. Back...………. And I am sure no payload ………… Please also look at *Flag* ………… And that in air electrical wiring and that electrical Pole...…… And check the colour of the Jet in last pic.....
> *Most Importnatly all action happened in Kashmir Region...….. So where the fuk Mountains gone ??*
> 
> Jet Number 1
> View attachment 543423
> 
> View attachment 543420
> 
> 
> Jet Number 2
> View attachment 543424
> View attachment 543424
> View attachment 543425
> 
> 
> Flag and jet(2)
> View attachment 543426
> 
> View attachment 543427
> 
> View attachment 543428
> 
> 
> Some one with better software can do the better job...……..
> @The Eagle , @Windjammer , @HRK , @Dazzler , @denel , @gambit , @Irfan Baloch , @Bilal Khan 777 , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) , @Sugarcane , @M.Musa ,@Taimur Khurram , @Muhammad Omar , @AsianUnion , @Yaseen1 , @zulu



Video share karo dost.


----------



## AsianLion

Hearing US in action - Lockheed Martin to file a case against India, of falsely claiming of shooting down a F16: Brace for this next:

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## Shabi1

AsianUnion said:


> Hearing US in action - Lockheed Martin to file a case against India, of falsely claiming of shooting down a F16: Brace for this next:


No proof of a F-16 down but I think this is fake news unless comes direct from Lockheed Martin direct and they are irritated from Indians as well.


----------



## ZedZeeshan

sohail.ishaque said:


> yeah until they don't get Rafale, they won't do anything silly. Their best fighter jet SU30mki got its azz kicked by JF17 thunerd and with that they can't have air dominance. So they'll wait for rafales now. The war is delayed, not over. Pak needs JF17 block 3 very urgent now.


We need another fighter in addition to Block 3..

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## AsianLion

*India to face another loss: F-16 manufacturer to file law suit against false Indian claims*

United States F-16 manufacturer Lockheed Martin has expressed its annoyance over the factually incorrect statement by Indian Foreign Office spokesperson regarding alleged shooting down Pakistan’s F-16 by IAF on February 27, 2019.

The United States enterprise has termed it outrageous and disrespect to the sophistication and repute of this Avionics excellence.

The company also claims that since all F-16s on Pakistani inventory are well counted for hence it is obvious that the story by India is concocted for political gains by incumbent government at the cost of F-16s reputation globally.

The Lockheed Martin further stated that the company reserves the right to claim damages for the likely loss of their highly integrated state of art air lions.

Lockheed martin to file law suit against India for the false claims of shooting down Pakistan’s F-16.

It is pertinent to mention here that the Indian foreign office spokesperson has claimed that Indian Air Force shot down PAF’s F-16 during the air space violation by Indian Air Force.

Furthermore, after two IAF MiG-21 shot downed by the PAF fighter jets Indian ministers and Armed forces officials during the press conference were unable to prove Pakistan’s Armour loss.

Earlier, Director General Inter Services Public Relations Major General Asif Ghafoor in a briefing to the media men after Pakistan responded to the Indian air space violation he said, during the dog fight with Indian MiG-21s, Pakistan did not used F-16 aircraft, The PAF fighter jets chased Indian MiGs and shot two of them.

Pakistan’s young fighter pilot Hassan Siddiqui during the “Dog Cat” locked the target and shot IAF MiG-21 in the territory of Pakistan.

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## Ahmet Pasha

We need a counter for rafales

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## mshan44



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## sohail.ishaque

ZedZeeshan said:


> We need another fighter in addition to Block 3..


and the suggestions are ?


----------



## Tipu7

Dazzler said:


> Video share karo dost.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101481104522076160

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## wulff

AsianUnion said:


> *India to face another loss: F-16 manufacturer to file law suit against false Indian claims*
> 
> United States F-16 manufacturer Lockheed Martin has expressed its annoyance over the factually incorrect statement by Indian Foreign Office spokesperson regarding alleged shooting down Pakistan’s F-16 by IAF on February 27, 2019.
> 
> The United States enterprise has termed it outrageous and disrespect to the sophistication and repute of this Avionics excellence.
> 
> The company also claims that since all F-16s on Pakistani inventory are well counted for hence it is obvious that the story by India is concocted for political gains by incumbent government at the cost of F-16s reputation globally.
> 
> The Lockheed Martin further stated that the company reserves the right to claim damages for the likely loss of their highly integrated state of art air lions.
> 
> Lockheed martin to file law suit against India for the false claims of shooting down Pakistan’s F-16.
> 
> It is pertinent to mention here that the Indian foreign office spokesperson has claimed that Indian Air Force shot down PAF’s F-16 during the air space violation by Indian Air Force.
> 
> Furthermore, after two IAF MiG-21 shot downed by the PAF fighter jets Indian ministers and Armed forces officials during the press conference were unable to prove Pakistan’s Armour loss.
> 
> Earlier, Director General Inter Services Public Relations Major General Asif Ghafoor in a briefing to the media men after Pakistan responded to the Indian air space violation he said, during the dog fight with Indian MiG-21s, Pakistan did not used F-16 aircraft, The PAF fighter jets chased Indian MiGs and shot two of them.
> 
> Pakistan’s young fighter pilot Hassan Siddiqui during the “Dog Cat” locked the target and shot IAF MiG-21 in the territory of Pakistan.




This is a satirical post. Dont take it seriously


----------



## farhan_9909



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## PakAlp

sohail.ishaque said:


> and the suggestions are ?


50 Eurofighters

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## Dazzler

farhan_9909 said:


> View attachment 543473




Are you suggesting that the jf-17 fired the AMRAAM?

Reports of PAF heading towards the hot areas.. The IAF has been at CAP for several hours.



Tipu7 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101481104522076160



Heading to base after scoring kills.


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## AsianLion

Pakistani Jet shot down Su 30 Mki finally Indians are admitting it:

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## Ultima Thule

SrNair said:


> Tell that to experts .
> Su didnt crossed LoC ,much superior one its dont have to .
> But Mig crossed


As for your information AIM-120 is BVR, F-16 didn't need to come closer, AMRAAM fired from distance and return, rest of the duty for guiding AMRAAM had have taken ERIEYE, that's why Your mighty raptor of the east MKI wreck found in you part of Kashmir @SrNair


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## PakAlp

AsianUnion said:


> Pakistani Jet shot down Su 30 Mki finally Indians are admitting it:


Old video. India won't admit it ever and that's fine. Pakistan is fine with the mig21


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## sohail.ishaque




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## Goku-kun

Dazzler said:


> Are you suggesting that the jf-17 fired the AMRAAM?
> 
> Reports of PAF heading towards the hot areas.. The IAF has been at CAP for several hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Heading to base after scoring kills.


indian media embarrassed in their own show:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101145589805445120

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## CHACHA"G"

Page #403 : Post Number 6045 …. I am also quoting it for you @Dazzler


Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor





Dazzler said:


> Video share karo dost.


He claimed these are F-16 and one of them shoot down by Mig-21


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## sohail.ishaque

PakAlp said:


> Old video. India won't admit it ever and that's fine. Pakistan is fine with the mig21



Old video ? what do you mean by old video ? I mean did F16 shot down Su30 in 1971 ? or 1965 ? or 1948 ?

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## Dazzler

CHACHA"G" said:


> Page #403 : Post Number 6045 …. I am also quoting it for you @Dazzler
> 
> 
> 
> He claimed these are F-16 and one of them shoot down by Mig-21



Of course they are both thunders, the sound of RD-93, side intakes, paint job, all suggests its thunder.

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## POPEYE-Sailor

Guys here is evidence IAF lost Su-30 ..

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## Bindas

What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16 
9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade. 

9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature) 

10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs. 

10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ 
10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”. 

10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him 

10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!


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## Pakhtoon yum

Ahmet Pasha said:


> We need a counter for rafales


J-31

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## Ultima Thule

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!


good bedtime stories @Bindas

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## Pakhtoon yum

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!


Do shut the f$ck up

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## Skywalker

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!


Bharath mein waqai beghairatoon ki kami nahien hai. Your own pilot before leavingpakistan did admit that he did not shot down any Pakistani aircraft. Neither he was forced nor pressurised by Pakistani authorities.

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## sohail.ishaque

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!



hehehehehe



Pakhtoon yum said:


> J-31


what is the timeline of Rafales ?

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## Pakhtoon yum

sohail.ishaque said:


> hehehehehe
> 
> 
> what is the timeline of Rafales ?


Doesnt matter now does it? We need em and we need em now


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## sohail.ishaque

Your trying to defend the reputation of your Russian based jet won't succeed. There are alot of things that are not coming out to deescalate the tensions from our side. I know it hurts when you find out that a Sukhoi is downed by some Chinese or US jet. But just to make you feel better, these sukhois were being flown by IAF and not Russians. 


ptldM3 said:


> Don't pander conspiracies there is zero evidence of an SU-30 going down or even being in the emodiate area. The Mig-21 broke formation and got shot down after going deep into Pakistani controled Kashmir, there was reports that his wingman was another Mig-21 but he returned safely. Both Pakistani and India reports are laughable, both have been caught blatantly lying. The stupidity is kept alive on this forum.
> 
> Eye witnesses claimed seeing several parachutes but it was over Pakistan controlled territory. If Pakistan had SU-30 wreckage they would parade it.
> 
> 
> One thing is 100% certain, a Mig-21 was shot down and the pilot taken POW. Many reported seeing multiple parachutes but it was over Pakistani controled territory. Make what you will of it, but people claiming it is an SU-30 is not only irrational but doesn't make logical sense nor is it supported by evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets stick to fact and evidence. The missile India recovered was real, it was tagged with serial numbers and Pakistan used the same batch as Taiwan, this is easily verifiable.
> 
> 
> http://thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26...issiles-were-used-by-pakistan-in-aerial-brawl
> 
> 
> "Some claimed that the contract number shown on the missile fragment identified it as one shipped to Taiwan, suggesting the evidence was fabricated. *However, this contract was actually a larger U.S. Foreign Military Sales deal that did involve deliveries to Pakistan."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=3384*

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## NA71

[


Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!


i have read similar story script .....in my teenage comic book love. that was evenly very good with great pencil artwork.

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## AsianLion

Wing Commander Abhinanadan already admitted he was looking for targets inside Pakistan and didnot shot down any F16, and pilot says no but here somehow the indian media IAF says its shot down f16, i mean come on show some proof. Pilot? F16 pieces? Radar signature of the falling, lock on video anything for fck sake.

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## Nav

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!



It seems to me the script of next Bollywood movie.

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## NA71

if our experts review the entire drama from day 1 to drop scene Indians were not prepared for this escalation .....the IAF strike with pathetic media briefing ....high claims no evidances then the way they handled PAF reaction then yesterdays press conference by three services officers Like they were standing on chowk.....now the way they took their hero pilot on wahgah boarder.....

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## Bindas

One thing is for Sure now Pakistani Top brass or PAF or for the matter any PAF pilot will have one thing in mind not to get shot out over India.

Indian air space is safe. 

For Pak, winning the battle of perception is more important than winning the real war.


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## b4umsf

Only indians.


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## Gorgin Khan

Bindas said:


> One thing is for Sure now Pakistani Top brass or PAF or for the matter any PAF pilot will have one thing in mind not to get shot out over India.
> 
> Indian air space is safe.
> 
> For Pak, winning the battle of perception is more important than winning the real war.



So your greatest fear is from pakistan air force. I think you summed upped everything in one line about what pounding your airforce as well as Army has Got.

Thanks for the confirmation though!


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## Telescopic Sight

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!



Firstly brother, nobody can know this. Even Abhi himself may be unaware of some details. 
Secondly, whats done is done. Lets look at future possible conflicts ( only saying that because we are in a Military forum, so point in talking about peace )


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## b4umsf

coffee_cup said:


> Not a correct video, this is from some earlier crash this month.


Watch again bosss


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## Telescopic Sight

Bindas said:


> One thing is for Sure now Pakistani Top brass or PAF or for the matter any PAF pilot will have one thing in mind not to get shot out over India.
> 
> Indian air space is safe.
> 
> For Pak, winning the battle of perception is more important than winning the real war.



This part I agree with. What the P.Army has done with Abhi ( videoing him and making clips of statements ) , I pity the PAF pilot who ever ejects in Indian areas. 

Which is another reason why I think PAF will never cross the LOC again. They will play their defensive game only.

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## Basel

Can someone confirm that?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101576197681676288


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## Ultima Thule

Bindas said:


> One thing is for Sure now Pakistani Top brass or PAF or for the matter any PAF pilot will have one thing in mind not to get shot out over India.
> 
> Indian air space is safe.
> 
> For Pak, winning the battle of perception is more important than winning the real war.


 Good good for you @Bindas Pakistan already won perception war against india @Bindas

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## Pakhtoon yum

Telescopic Sight said:


> This part I agree with. What the P.Army has done with Abhi ( videoing him and making clips of statements ) , I pity the PAF pilot who ever ejects in Indian areas.
> 
> Which is another reason why I think PAF will never cross the LOC again. They will play their defensive game only.


Do u remember the tactics the japanese used? I believe I dont have to say anymore



Basel said:


> Can someone confirm that?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101576197681676288


Looks like its hunting season, after a very long time

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## Taimur Khurram

Bindas said:


> Indian air space is safe.



It got violated and you couldn't do anything about it.


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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101573110820683782


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## Telescopic Sight

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Do u remember the tactics the japanese used? I believe I dont have to say anymore
> 
> 
> Looks like its hunting season, after a very long time



Suicide Missions? Wow ! Nice way to win a war !

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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101561356615069696


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## Trailer23

Bindas said:


> One thing is for Sure now Pakistani Top brass or PAF or for the matter any PAF pilot will have one thing in mind not to get shot out over India.
> 
> Indian air space is safe.
> 
> For Pak, winning the battle of perception is more important than winning the real war.


Look lad, could you explain to me that how Indian Channels and Print Media knew about his heroics of shooting down this F-16?

The man was in lock-up and had no contact with the outside world until his release.

We know Indians like to relate everything to Media.
Movies
Dramas on Star Plus
News
Hell..., even your Sports is over dramatized.

And please don't give me any b.s. about the 'edit' in the last statement he made as if you're all Jerry 'fuckin' Bruckheimer.

I'm eager to hear his official statement just as much as the next guy.

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## Darvesh

Bindas said:


> So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that *hit the F16 and drowned him*



Proof meray bacchay, proof do? No more bollywood lullabies.

Your hero saying otherwise.

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## sohail.ishaque

Telescopic Sight said:


> You questioned me in a manner more suitable to the subject. Unlike the other poster in the post above yours, who chose to show his family background to the world.
> 
> Here is the link, showing Two seater F16's ADF BN ( Did I get the name wrong ?) . Remember that the PAF is going blue in the face denying the use of the Vipers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101442315015544832
> Also @Knuckles @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Hodor


The 2nd one is definately JF17 thunder, i am not sure about the first one.

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## Gorgin Khan

Telescopic Sight said:


> This part I agree with. What the P.Army has done with Abhi ( videoing him and making clips of statements ) , I pity the PAF pilot who ever ejects in Indian areas.
> 
> Which is another reason why I think PAF will never cross the LOC again. They will play their defensive game only.


 
I dont understand your level of comprehension. we cannot shoot means India cannot shoot as well. Will India dare to shoot down a pakistani plane in pakistani airspace? Its risky for the indians as well. Because indian guys forgot one thing from Past few days. That our airforce dont need to violate the line of control. We have the capability of making kills with BVR at least 70 km inside india without any air space violations. The same applies for Indian army as well.

The question is will Indian airforce risk it ? And bare the consequences afterwards. Dont try to delude yourself ..

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## sohail.ishaque

ptldM3 said:


> The Bison shot down is essential not even Russian. It used Israeli F-16 avionics and Russia hasn't used the Mig-21 in decades it was also built in India.
> 
> 
> Your bogus conspiracies got busted now you are tap dancing.


Sukhois are


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## Trailer23

Darvesh said:


> Proof meray bacchay, proof do? No bollywood lullabies.


Exactly bro... I just asked the same a while back.

Where in the World did these guys get the exact timings?!!

HE WAS LOCKED UP IN A PAKISTANI MILITARY PRISON. He didn't have a 4G iPhone or a laptop giving out LIVE interviews to d!ckheads like Arnab Goswami.

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## CT-9914 "Snoop"

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!


I'll give you a more believable version which might keep you awake at night.

PAF Mirage V ROSE aircraft carrying SOW's pick up ground targets across the LoC and engage.
Upon realising they are under attack the Indian Air Force redirects all aircraft in the vicinity towards the Mirages.
Not being able to detect Pakistani aircraft due to heavy jamming they cross over into Pakistani airspace hoping to get a quick kill.
They are intercepted by F-16/JF-17's and at least 2 aircraft (2 x MiG-21's or 1 x MiG and 1 x Su-30) get shot down.
Indian ground forces upon seeing an IAF aircraft going down in Pakistan assume it's a PAF aircraft to distract themselves and their nation from the major whooping they received from our Mirages.
W/C Abhinandan and possibly one other pilot gets captured.
Tapal Danedar gets a new sponsor.
India receives their pilot back claiming him to be a hero but discharges him because isn't that what you're supposed to do to heroes?

Don't go to sleep tonight, pray instead for your pilots because every one of ours is an Alam, a Rafiqui, a Younis, a Bhatti etc etc

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## Ahmet Pasha

Yaar ab ye kya bhonk rha hai
Why is he making it look like Pakistan still in touch with Jaidh e whatever????
Military ne jitwaya 
Ab ye khabees daboye ga

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## Jinn Baba

Bindas said:


> One thing is for Sure now Pakistani Top brass or PAF or for the matter any PAF pilot will have one thing in mind not to get shot out over India.
> 
> Indian air space is safe.
> 
> For Pak, winning the battle of perception is more important than winning the real war.





Telescopic Sight said:


> This part I agree with. What the P.Army has done with Abhi ( videoing him and making clips of statements ) , I pity the PAF pilot who ever ejects in Indian areas.
> 
> Which is another reason why I think PAF will never cross the LOC again. They will play their defensive game only.



With the blatant humiliation India has just faced, and the episode of chai-wala pilot, tell me seriously and honestly - which air force do you think is now more worried about perception? Just imagine if yet another IAF plane is shot in Pak airspace and the wreckage is broadcast around the world, and we capture yet another pilot and release videos of him.

I understand that Indians are shocked and dismayed with all that has happened, but you dont need to lose your minds in the process. Use your brains.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Telescopic Sight said:


> Suicide Missions? Wow ! Nice way to win a war !


Nope, seems u have forgotten


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## Darvesh

Trailer23 said:


> Exactly bro... I just asked the same a while back.
> 
> Where in the World did these guys get the exact timings?!!
> 
> HE WAS LOCKED UP IN A PAKISTANI MILITARY PRISON. He didn't have a 4G iPhone or a laptop giving out LIVE interviews to d!ckheads like Arnab Goswami.



They won't. They can't. Their air marshal is sacked for not achieving targets. Them are just bunch of dumb chest thumping indiots.

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## sohail.ishaque

nahmed71 said:


> if our experts review the entire drama from day 1 to drop scene *Indians were not prepared for this escalation* .....the IAF strike with pathetic media briefing ....high claims no evidances then the way they handled PAF reaction then yesterdays press conference by three services officers Like they were standing on chowk.....now the way they took their hero pilot on wahgah boarder.....



Yeah. I also think that is the case. They were actually made to take some kind of action by their Media which was very ill-prepared.


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## Ali_Baba

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 543471



Odd. He has only just made it over the border !!! Sure, if they gonna get rid of him they will give him a few months and then do it quietly.


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## Avicenna

ptldM3 said:


> Stop embarrassing yourself by making up conspiracies. It has been debunked long ago that no Sukhoi was in the area when the Mig-21 was shot down. Many Guilbible Pakistanis challenged me on and then conceded that they have no proof whatsoever.
> 
> 
> No wreckage of any Sukhoi, no downed pilots, no footage of Sukhois being shot down and no proof whatsoever from Pakistan.



https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/kar...r-appointed-western-air-command-chief-2000954

Evidence of a job well done I guess. Or not.

PAF must have bitch@slapped IAF.


*Kargil War Hero Air Marshal R Nambiar Appointed Western Air Command Chief*
*Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar is credited for shooting five of the eight Laser Guided Bombs on the Pakistani positions during the Kargil war from his plane.*
All India | ANI | Updated: March 01, 2019 06:55 IST
by Taboola
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2*COMMENTS*






Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar flew the Mirage-2000 in combat during the Kargil war.


NEW DELHI: 
Kargil war hero and present Eastern Air Command chief Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar has been appointed as the new chief of Indian Air Force's sword arm Western Air Command (WAC) on Thursday.

The Air Marshal is credited for shooting five of the eight Laser Guided Bombs on the Pakistani positions during the Kargil war from his plane.

The WAC is headquartered in the national capital and controls the area from north of Bikaner in Rajasthan up to Siachen Glacier and controls almost 40 per cent of the air bases of the Indian Air Force.

Air Marshal Nambiar has the distinction of having the highest number of flying hours on the Mirage-2000 in the IAF, with over 2300 flying hours on the aircraft to his credit, and a total of 5100 hours of flying experience.

He is a member of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots and was the Project Test Pilot for the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar has been a Flight commander of a Mirage-2000 Squadron, the Senior Test Pilot and Commanding Officer of the Flight Test Squadron at Aircraft System Testing Establishment (ASTE).


He has commanded the oldest Squadron of the IAF, the prestigious No. 1 Squadron.

He flew the Mirage-2000 in combat during the Kargil conflict and has flown 25 operational missions.

Air Marshal Nambiar was also awarded the Vayu Sena Medal for Gallantry by the President of India for the Kargil Operations.

2 COMMENTS
He was awarded a Bar to the Vayu Sena Medal for flight testing the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) in 2002, during its first phase of flight testing.


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## Avicenna

ptldM3 said:


> Why are you quoting me and posting some random article about kargil when I was talking with another member about Pakistani conspiracy theories about MKIs being shot down?



Learn to read.

And think about the bigger picture.


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## Alpha1

ptldM3 said:


> Stop embarrassing yourself by making up conspiracies. It has been debunked long ago that no Sukhoi was in the area when the Mig-21 was shot down. Many Guilbible Pakistanis challenged me on and then conceded that they have no proof whatsoever.
> 
> 
> No wreckage of any Sukhoi, no downed pilots, no footage of Sukhois being shot down and no proof whatsoever from Pakistan.


There's literally a Video of a twin seater jet shot down in IOK. If it was an F-16 provide proof, Indian military isn't going to admit to prevent further embarrassment.

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## Avicenna

ptldM3 said:


> Learn to be coherent and have a debate instead of quoting me and posting something off topic.



I'm perfectly coherent. 

But let me break it down for you comrade.

The head of IAF Western Command just "retired" right after Feb 27th.

I guess he is going out on top after a masterful performance by the IAF?

Or he got unceremonously dumped after a disasterous showing.

Rest assured theres more to the story than we are being told.

My money is on the PAF humiliating IAF in some way.

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## undercover JIX

W/C Abhi ki Chai...

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## Alpha1

ptldM3 said:


> Learn to be coherent and have a debate instead of quoting me and posting something off topic.





Alpha1 said:


> I am not sure if this has been posted before but looks like a twin seater aircraft that was shot down, you can hear two booms (ejection seat sounds) and locals confirmation that there are two pilots
> Su-30 MKI?
> @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM





Bilal Khan 777 said:


> DH Fox 3. Plane catching fire, horizontal spin & burning wreckage.Twin Ejection. Separation. Two parachutes.





Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Looking at the Sun Angle and time, people from Pakistani administered Asad J&K filled this to the east, placing this over Indian administer occupied J&K, coinciding with the wreckage found or not found over India till now.



Read these posts on this thread @ptldM3


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## undercover JIX

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/438392-indian-army-mocked-on-the-daily-show

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## Alpha1

ptldM3 said:


> I seen the video, nothing is even visible besides one aircraft which was the mig-21.


That is the problem, you had to listen carefully too, for two ejection seat sounds and the locals



ptldM3 said:


> Every time an Indian aircraft have crashes there were photos and video, now seddenly there is nothing. No photos of wreckage or pilots, nothing.


It probably fell in Indian occupied Kashmir for reasons I quoted in my post above, so you should ask your own military to provide photos and videos of it.


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## Army research

ptldM3 said:


> Goog luck trying to hear an ejection seat from at least 10,000 feet. People are interpreting some random street noise as ejection seats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The video was obviously of the Mig-21 that was shot down over the Pakistani side. Basic logic says if it was an SU-30 then it would have also crashed on the Pakistani side. So where is it? Where are the photos or at least eye witnesses account from either side of Indian pilots/debris? Not even a smoke plume.
> 
> 
> I don't think any other aircraft was shot down but bassed on the video evidence, Indian claims. if I were to choose who lost what I would say it is far more likely a twin seat F-16 went down then an MKI.


He didn't say the locals " heard ejections " , 
He said the hear the locals say 3 ejections

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Bindas said:


> For Pak, winning the battle of perception is more important than winning the real war.


It’s even better when, like now, Pakistan wins both the actual war and the battle of perceptions.

It must really hurt ... all the international and local coverage of the targeted area at Balakot shows nothing but a bunch of damaged trees. Even sat imagery of the area now shows nothing but damaged trees, and on top of that, the IAF had, at a minimum, a MiG-21 shot down.

Pakistan has suffered absolutely no loss whatsoever (the F-16 getting shot down remains and unsubstantiated Indian conspiracy theory), and the whole ‘Sarjikal Strike part 2’ drama has blown up in Modi and India’s face.

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## The Eagle

ptldM3 said:


> Very believable that some illiterate villagers can make out the sound of 3 ejection seats from at least 10,000 feet. Pakistani are being bashed all across different forums for the stupidity they have spread, everyone from forum members to military to the press have made absurdly stupid and embarrassing claims and lies.



Yet the very genius military observer from India proved to shoot F-16 just so by showing an alleged debris of AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM. Read and again, to understand as you have now plenty of time. Those who bashed, are also with false flags.

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## khanasifm

Movie Sherdil tickets will now sell like hot cakes

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## Talwar e Pakistan



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## PakAlp

sohail.ishaque said:


> Old video ? what do you mean by old video ? I mean did F16 shot down Su30 in 1971 ? or 1965 ? or 1948 ?


Sorry I meant the video had already been talked about.


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## SrNair

Arsalan said:


> First, i am still waiting for that evidence of Uri strike
> Second, finding BVRAAM dont means a F-16 was shot down. Specially when the AIM is controversial itself (same batch number issue to Taiwan) and there is absolutely no evidence of F-16 wreckage.
> Third, your media have already shared what they call F-16 wreckage!
> 
> here;
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth...ked-indian-lies-exposed.604973/#post-11227714



And the media got photo from Pak channels .
Evidence of Uri is already there and after that noone want to question its veracity.



Dazzler said:


> No f-16 was used in the strikes. Bring the evidence if was used. Showing a fake piece of trash and calling it a piece of AMRAAM will get you nowhere.
> 
> This is what experts have to say.
> 
> *Surgical Strike in Pakistan a Botched Operation?*



Reason is simple .
No matter how much you tried to twist the fact we got what we want.

Had it been near LoC we could have agree that .
Crossing Pak Airspace and launching 1 Ton in 80 km inside KPK means that was actionable intelligence .
High risk mission itself says so.
Locals already changed their words several times andvwe know the reason.

Once the dust settled they will release the video,aerial recce and satelite pictures.



Taimur Khurram said:


> Your own military admitted to sending Sukhois.
> 
> A twin-seater clearly went down, and it can't be an F-16 since you have no pilot or wreckage to display to us, so the only option left is a Su-30MKI.



All three pilots landed in Azad Kashmir .
And your military changed from 3 to 1 within one day.
So much professionalism.

Su is too much superior .
Dont have to cross LoC unless superior fighting.


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## YeBeWarned

SrNair said:


> Locals already changed their words several times andvwe know the reason.



where ? Kindly show us where did the local change their words ?


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## SrNair

Starlord said:


> where ? Kindly show us where did the local change their words ?



Google it .You can find .
One local said 3 to 4 buildings shattered fue to strike.

Reason is simple IAF was on to something and they successfully completed the job .

One day PA cordon that area and didnt allow journalist due to 'bad cimate' .
An Army having sufficient discplinary force can change pounded area in to an agricultural land if they want .


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## AsianLion

So right:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101542053534728194

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## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

SrNair said:


> Google it .You can find .
> One local said 3 to 4 buildings shattered fue to strike.
> 
> Reason is simple IAF was on to something and they successfully completed the job .
> 
> One day PA cordon that area and didnt allow journalist due to 'bad cimate' .
> An Army having sufficient discplinary force can change pounded area in to an agricultural land if they want .


Meanwhile Pakistani pine trees after Indian strike lol.

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## SrNair

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> Meanwhile Pakistani pine trees after Indian strike lol.
> 
> View attachment 543582



Point is in cut down shape.
Suits you .
Poor PA soldiers did a commendable job to covered up everything


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## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

SrNair said:


> Point is in cut down shape.
> Suits you .
> Poor PA soldiers did a commendable job to covered up everything


Lol dude you hit a jungle and no camp was located there. If your intentions were really to hit so called militant camps then Hafiz saeed organization is in Lahore few kms away from Indian border they could have done that but not. 

What happened in reality is India thought attacking some open targets and causing no civilian, militant or military damages in Pakistan will result in no retaliation from Pakistani side. But opposite happened as Pakistan attacked Indian military positions next day and to add insult to injury shoot down two enemy aircraft's.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

SrNair said:


> Point is in cut down shape.
> Suits you .
> Poor PA soldiers did a commendable job to covered up everything

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## Ultima Thule

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> Lol dude you hit a jungle and no camp was located there. If your intentions were really to hit so called militant camps then Hafiz saeed organization is in Lahore few kms away from Indian border they could have done that but not.
> 
> What happened in reality is India thought attacking some open targets and causing no civilian, militant or military damages in Pakistan will result in no retaliation from Pakistani side. But opposite happened as Pakistan attacked Indian military positions next day and to add insult to injury shoot down two enemy aircraft's.


It fool to convince Indians, they don't understand, you should ignore them and leave them what they believes @Hammad Arshad Qureshi

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## Khanate

SrNair said:


> Point is in cut down shape.
> Suits you .
> Poor PA soldiers did a commendable job to covered up everything








Modi has turned Indians into a laughing stock. Pathetic.

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## YeBeWarned

SrNair said:


> Google it .You can find .
> One local said 3 to 4 buildings shattered fue to strike.



cant find anything , there is no other words .. Pakistani and International Media have access to the place, there is only one Baba that got injured .



SrNair said:


> Reason is simple IAF was on to something and they successfully completed the job .



I would like to see the evidence of that successful Job IAF did ? 



SrNair said:


> One day PA cordon that area and didnt allow journalist due to 'bad cimate' .
> An Army having sufficient discplinary force can change pounded area in to an agricultural land if they want .



Pictures surfaced within few hours , Arshad Sharif from ARY got there within a day , next day Hamid Mir got there along with BBC , are you saying Pakistan Army removed all that mess from the so call compound and 300 bodies of dead people , in 24 hours ? without a trace ? come on make some sense at least .

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## The Accountant

SrNair said:


> And the media got photo from Pak channels .
> Evidence of Uri is already there and after that noone want to question its veracity.
> 
> 
> 
> Reason is simple .
> No matter how much you tried to twist the fact we got what we want.
> 
> Had it been near LoC we could have agree that .
> Crossing Pak Airspace and launching 1 Ton in 80 km inside KPK means that was actionable intelligence .
> High risk mission itself says so.
> Locals already changed their words several times andvwe know the reason.
> 
> Once the dust settled they will release the video,aerial recce and satelite pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> All three pilots landed in Azad Kashmir .
> And your military changed from 3 to 1 within one day.
> So much professionalism.
> 
> Su is too much superior .
> Dont have to cross LoC unless superior fighting.



What evidence ... r u talking about that bollywood film ? 
Secondly, kindly google balakot ... the attacked one isnin kashmir not in KPK ... 
Go and your SU ... we cant hide f16 for long as our f16s are limited in no.



SrNair said:


> Google it .You can find .
> One local said 3 to 4 buildings shattered fue to strike.
> 
> Reason is simple IAF was on to something and they successfully completed the job .
> 
> One day PA cordon that area and didnt allow journalist due to 'bad cimate' .
> An Army having sufficient discplinary force can change pounded area in to an agricultural land if they want .



U r making claim so ýou have to show the evidence ...


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## Dr. Abdul Basit

Kaafir ho to shamsheer pe karta hay bharosa 
Momin ho to betaigh bhi larta hay sipahi
A silent message for all... By اقبال decades back

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## mikeexpendable93

Here is the video clip that shows PAF aircraft was down and at least 2 PAF pilots deployed their parachutes:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=377329919777044

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## b4umsf




----------



## araz

AsianUnion said:


> Wing Commander Abhinanadan already admitted he was looking for targets inside Pakistan and didnot shot down any F16, and pilot says no but here somehow the indian media IAF says its shot down f16, i mean come on show some proof. Pilot? F16 pieces? Radar signature of the falling, lock on video anything for fck sake.


Naa bhai.
Let them cry on. They will believe what their stupid media tells them irrespective of what you say. Iam surprised that they did not claim that their fighters destroyed all 10 intruding 16s.
I ha e respect for the Airmen of both IAF and PAF. Ithink we did the most magnanimous thing ever by returning their airman back to his family safe and sound. We have proven we are not at war and do not want war. The Indian vermin media on the other hand has to try and prove its point and so it is making a real fool out of itself.
Let them live in their feigned sense of glory while the polity knows what went on. This holi at the cost of the lives of soldiers will cost Modi dearly in the days to come.
A

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## The wheel of time

*Taiwan Air Force rebuffs Pakistani Claims. Says Aim 120 serial no. does not belongs to Taiwan. *

The Air Force in Taipei said Friday afternoon that after checking the information, it had concluded that the identification numbers shown did not match any of its missiles, and were not compatible with any weapons systems in its possession, the Central News Agency reported.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3648621

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## Dazzler

Need to be verified, but very sad if true...

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## alphibeti

The wheel of time said:


> *Taiwan Air Force rebuffs Pakistani Claims. Says Aim 120 serial no. does not belongs to Taiwan. *
> 
> The Air Force in Taipei said Friday afternoon that after checking the information, it had concluded that the identification numbers shown did not match any of its missiles, and were not compatible with any weapons systems in its possession, the Central News Agency reported.
> 
> https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3648621


It is not Pakistani claim rather vedor's database shows that. Go and talk to the vendor.

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## Signalian

Dazzler said:


> Need to be verified, but very sad if true...


if true, 30 million to stay quiet?


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## Trailer23



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## Bilal Khan 777

Dazzler said:


> Need to be verified, but very sad if true...



This needs to be verified. However, I am sure he is up for a real dress down for not being able to engage the Pakistani aircraft, and getting shot down in the process. By Surviving the Interception, W/C Abhi singlehandedly destroyed the whole Surgical Strike drama being undertaken by Modi Government. They are not going to be lenient with him.

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## Signalian

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> They are not going to be lenient with him.


dad's rank and contacts could save him.


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## Dazzler

So it begins... IN deployed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101728398349615105

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## Bilal Khan 777

Signalian said:


> dad's rank and contacts could save him.





Dazzler said:


> So it begins... IN deployed
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101728398349615105



Get ready to give IN another surprise.

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## The Accountant

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Get ready to give IN another surprise.


I dont think they will try another mis adventure ... if navy got hit then india will be totally humiliated ...


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## Dazzler

IA personnel in Jammu after losing several to mujahideens..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101787653718999041

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## Indus Pakistan

#takethatindia


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/world/asia/pakistan-india-pilot-kashmir.html?module=inline

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## Imran Khan



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## Darvesh

SrNair said:


> And the media got photo from Pak channels .
> Evidence of Uri is already there and after that noone want to question its veracity.
> 
> 
> 
> Reason is simple .
> No matter how much you tried to twist the fact we got what we want.
> 
> Had it been near LoC we could have agree that .
> Crossing Pak Airspace and launching 1 Ton in 80 km inside KPK means that was actionable intelligence .
> High risk mission itself says so.
> Locals already changed their words several times andvwe know the reason.
> 
> Once the dust settled they will release the video,aerial recce and satelite pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> All three pilots landed in Azad Kashmir .
> And your military changed from 3 to 1 within one day.
> So much professionalism.
> 
> Su is too much superior .
> Dont have to cross LoC unless superior fighting.



No body is buying this even your own people. All what you are saying is utterly stupid and embarrassing you further. Why waiting for the dust to settle? Expose liars, debunk Pakistan's made up fairytales, uncover Pakistan's contradicting information, beat your chest, unleash your wrath and make a come back.

I offer my shoulder. You can have other one too for two more pilots but..... Pakistan really played well

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## Taimur Khurram

SrNair said:


> All three pilots landed in Azad Kashmir .
> And your military changed from 3 to 1 within one day.
> So much professionalism..
> 
> Su is too much superior .
> Dont have to cross LoC unless superior fighting



No, they said they were searching for three because they knew a second dual seater (Su-30MKI) went down. They only found two. The third one is in your land, possibly dead.

As for our 2nd friend, he probably died in hospital. Pakistan is keeping it's mouth shut to prevent further escalation.

The gap between a Flanker and a Thunder, or a Flanker and a Viper is far less than the gap between a Viper and a Bison. If a dual seater went down, it's probably a Flanker. Especially when one considers the US hasn't blasted Pakistan yet (which it would if Vipers were used).

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## PakShaheen79

Wife of 2nd pilot. Can anyone confirm. She is saying last they spoke at the evening of 26th and we know PAF action was next day on 27th.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101791929422041089

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## TsAr

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!


So you admit that 24 Plane theory that your Tri services press conference said was BS......you comments above would make for a true bollywood film


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## ARMalik

Ok there is some interesting news floating around. Remember the *Indian Command Centre in IOK *which was mentioned in ISPR news conference as well, this is where PAF fired *fuseless ammo *to warn the Indians. Well apparently on that day and time, *INDIAN COAS WAS IN THAT COMMAND POST chairing a meeting! *PAF spared him, and this was also one of the reasons why the IAF Commander was fired!

Some seriously mind boggling news if true.

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## Ahassan

TsAr said:


> So you admit that 24 Plane theory that your Tri services press conference said was BS......you comments above would make for a true bollywood film


item number is missing


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## Bindas

Guys one simple question. 

DGISPR Said we have 2 pilots, one in custody one in hospital. 

Third searching. Didn't find ok. 


How is that after hours also you guys were confused. 

2 confirmed In hand. How is it possible you had one now. 

Why no Pakistani senior member of this group does not ask this question .

All response we did this we did that. Ok you did fine. Buy why No straight answer only for this. 


Now some will say it was su30 mki. Now when u had one su30 pilot.

Ok fine. Then where. Is he.


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## z9-ec

Bindas said:


> Guys one simple question.
> 
> DGISPR Said we have 2 pilots, one in custody one in hospital.
> 
> Third searching. Didn't find ok.
> 
> 
> How is that after hours also you guys were confused.
> 
> 2 confirmed In hand. How is it possible you had one now.
> 
> Why no Pakistani senior member of this group does not ask this question .
> 
> All response we did this we did that. Ok you did fine. Buy why No straight answer only for this.
> 
> 
> Now some will say it was su30 mki. Now when u had one su30 pilot.
> 
> Ok fine. Then where. Is he.




Maybe we have them as POW. Even your own government denies their existence.. Why should we reveal them?


Think about it..

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## b4umsf

Bindas said:


> Guys one simple question.
> 
> DGISPR Said we have 2 pilots, one in custody one in hospital.
> 
> Third searching. Didn't find ok.
> 
> 
> How is that after hours also you guys were confused.
> 
> 2 confirmed In hand. How is it possible you had one now.
> 
> Why no Pakistani senior member of this group does not ask this question .
> 
> All response we did this we did that. Ok you did fine. Buy why No straight answer only for this.
> 
> 
> Now some will say it was su30 mki. Now when u had one su30 pilot.
> 
> Ok fine. Then where. Is he.


Watch this


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## ghazi52

Satellite imagery, acquired by Planet Labs Inc. on the morning of 27 February and accessed by ASPI, calls this claim into question. No evidence of damage to the facility or nearby areas is visible on the images. Local media have visited the site and published photographs of multiple small craters in the vicinity, but they haven’t been granted access to the facility that was reportedly targeted. Satellite imagery, presented and analysed below, provides no apparent evidence of more extensive damage and on the face of it does not validate Indian claims regarding the effect of the strikes.








By analysing areas of healthy vegetation from the imagery, I’ve been able to identify three clear impact areas between 150 and 200 metres from the edge of the facility. These correspond to photos shared by local journalists and confirm the location of strikes.

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## Ahassan

Bindas said:


> Guys one simple question.
> 
> DGISPR Said we have 2 pilots, one in custody one in hospital.
> 
> Third searching. Didn't find ok.
> 
> 
> How is that after hours also you guys were confused.
> 
> 2 confirmed In hand. How is it possible you had one now.
> 
> Why no Pakistani senior member of this group does not ask this question .
> 
> All response we did this we did that. Ok you did fine. Buy why No straight answer only for this.
> 
> 
> Now some will say it was su30 mki. Now when u had one su30 pilot.
> 
> Ok fine. Then where. Is he.






first read all post starting from from page 60 .... secondly your own media reported ... su30 was lost .....the wife of second pilots is on tv .... sqn ldr/wgn cdr Ninad ....


I would request the mods to ban ... indian members asking the same question again and again.

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## ZedZeeshan



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## Bindas

Ahassan said:


> first read all post starting from from page 60 .... secondly your own media reported ... su30 was lost .....the wife of second pilots is on tv .... sqn ldr/wgn cdr Ninad ....
> 
> 
> I would request the mods to ban ... indian members asking the same question again and again.




You had him he died. Did u kill him. Sent body within hours. You said u had one more. 

Are you retarded. 

I am not even arguing that he was m17 which crashed. Which is true.


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## Dazzler

PakShaheen79 said:


> Wife of 2nd pilot. Can anyone confirm. She is saying last they spoke at the evening of 26th and we know PAF action was next day on 27th.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101791929422041089



No words, for some reason, the video wrenched my heart.

The cost of war is too heavy a burden to bear..

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## Ahassan

Bindas said:


> You had him he died. Did u kill him. Sent body within hours. You said u had one more.
> 
> Are you retarded.
> 
> I am not even arguing that he was m17 which crashed. Which is true.



First of all try to be respectful ... next time you use any abusive word I’ll make sure ... your are banned ... secondly .... if that second pilot is with us ...! ... it’s your government that should ask for it ... why should we disclose it ...

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## NA71

BREAKING NEWS:

*Addressing to public gathering PM modi said " Need for Fighter Jets Rafale has become more important now, If we had these jets the situation would been very different". He said " do not criticize your armed forces it hurts"*

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## Sine Nomine

Signalian said:


> dad's rank and contacts could save him.


Too much stakes,i don't think so.


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## araz

Bindas said:


> You had him he died. Did u kill him. Sent body within hours. You said u had one more.
> 
> Are you retarded.
> 
> I am not even arguing that he was m17 which crashed. Which is true.


The bottom line is that the picture is murky. I have heard the statement of DG ISPR. HE claimed two fighters were shot one fell in Pak side of Kashmir and the other inside Indian occupied Kashmir. If that is the case when the pilot ejected he may have landed on Pak side or on Indian side. If we returned one pilot with due grace why would we hold on to the other one? 
In war time often news can get mixed up. Perhaps DG ISPR got it wrong. For the purposes of interrogation a Wing commander would be a lot more juicier cndidate than a Sq leader. But then this is not a war scenario. By returning your pilot we have proved we have no aggressive designs. There is no sense in wasting band width over this issue as the fate of this unfortunate soldier is not known at this point in time.
We have to wait and ask the IAF if there was a second plane that fell in IOK. IF they accept that then they will have news of the pilot. I am not aware of the actual mode of the hit and whether the plane was on its way back . If it was and its wreckage fell on the Indian side then the likelihood is that his remains would be there as well. However what has now been ascertained is that 2 planes got shot down not 1 as claimed by IAF. 
A

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## Rafi

Bindas said:


> What has happened yesterday. Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near Azad Kashmir. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16
> 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
> 
> 9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond 10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
> 
> 10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to Azad Kashmir side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.
> 
> 10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ
> 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
> 
> 10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to Azad Kashmir and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
> 
> 10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!



Dude, please stop it's getting embarrassing now, even we feel sorry for you.

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## Shabi1

Issue on SU-30 will not be cleared anytime soon, so we shouldn't waste time on the trolls. There are two ways PAF can provide proof to the Indians. Both proofs will without doubt escalate the situation as will cause uproar in India so Im very sure PM Imran Khan won't allow. Ive come to know that Pakistan is deliberately holding back other engagement details to prevent war mongers, which would be un responsible of me to share as well, I believe same case here. Also Pakistani people are not pressuring the government on this so no urgency.

1. Show the pilots that DG ISPR initially claimed admitted to CMH for injuries. Likely the pilots have passed away and we have their bodies, as initial reports were for very injured. Indians will claim Pakistani mob killed it's own pilot but that is very absurd, if crowds were so uncontrollable WC Abhi would have been killed too. There is no precedent of uncontrollable mobs here, people would have first probed to ascertain the down pilots origin. Plus if you watch the interviews people were smart enough to make him think he landed inside Indian territory so he could be apprehended. *Seeing how Pakistan is doing whatever it can to not escalate the situation this is a big no no at the moment.
*
2. Show HUD and communications footage of the engagement. *This seems unlikely at the moment as it will risk leakage of tactics which we might need to employ again.* Maybe after some months or years they will be revealed.

However if India has similar proof at it's end it would have shared already as it is what it's public needs to regain lost morale. And nothing keeping them from not sharing. 

*So talking on SU-30MKI or XXX is just a waste of time at the moment.*

Now I have some points on the aircraft that is confirmed to be downed. Need your comments.

1. Why did InAF deploy the Mig-21 Bison in such a hot zone. It is a good interceptor but when you know you are in a conflict situation you should plan and deploy your most capable CAP assets eg SU-30s, Mig-29s etc. Surely InAF planners are not idiots. Even PAF withdrew F-7PGs and re allocated fighters so JF-17s and F-16s are more likely to see action. The Aim-120 Indians are parading is probably from when PAF engaged InAF 3 times the day before.

2. Where was WC Abhi's wing man. Should have been on a Mig-21 as well. He should have avenged his wing man as long as he had fuel and missiles.

3. Why was WC Abhi, a SU-30 pilot flying a Mig-21. We know PAF moves its most experienced pilots from F-16s to JF-17s, since they have better weapon package options but move from a SU-30 to Mig-21 is a downgrade or a punishment and a waste since InAF does have a pilot to aircraft ratio shortness.

*Possible reason, just an Idea which I am throwing around. WC Abhi is a SU-30 pilot but on that day because of availability his SU-30 was not cleared to fly so he being also certified for Mig-21 took off for CAP on a Mig-21 instead, while his wingmen were on their SU-30. This being plausible since the SU-30 has a bad reputation for availability rate. His wingman being a SU-30 also got shot down so he didnt have backup to avenge him. By the time InAF hot scrambles were available PAF was out of the area.*

What are your takes on this theory.

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## Oracle



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## CriticalThought

Shabi1 said:


> Issue on SU-30 will not be cleared anytime soon, so we shouldn't waste time on the trolls. There are two ways PAF can provide proof to the Indians. Both proofs will without doubt escalate the situation as will cause uproar in India so Im very sure PM Imran Khan won't allow. Ive come to know that Pakistan is deliberately holding back other engagement details to prevent war mongers, which would be un responsible of me to share as well, I believe same case here. Also Pakistani people are not pressuring the government on this so no urgency.
> 
> 1. Show the pilots that DG ISPR initially claimed admitted to CMH for injuries. Likely the pilots have passed away and we have their bodies, as initial reports were for very injured. Indians will claim Pakistani mob killed it's own pilot but that is very absurd, if crowds were so uncontrollable WC Abhi would have been killed too. There is no precedent of uncontrollable mobs here, people would have first probed to ascertain the down pilots origin. Plus if you watch the interviews people were smart enough to make him think he landed inside Indian territory so he could be apprehended. *Seeing how Pakistan is doing whatever it can to not escalate the situation this is a big no no at the moment.
> *
> 2. Show HUD and communications footage of the engagement. *This seems unlikely at the moment as it will risk leakage of tactics which we might need to employ again.* Maybe after some months or years they will be revealed.
> 
> However if India has similar proof at it's end it would have shared already as it is what it's public needs to regain lost morale. And nothing keeping them from not sharing.
> 
> *So talking on SU-30MKI or XXX is just a waste of time at the moment.*
> 
> Now I have some points on the aircraft that is confirmed to be downed. Need your comments.
> 
> 1. Why did InAF deploy the Mig-21 Bison in such a hot zone. It is a good interceptor but when you know you are in a conflict situation you should plan and deploy your most capable CAP assets eg SU-30s, Mig-29s etc. Surely InAF planners are not idiots. Even PAF withdrew F-7PGs and re allocated fighters so JF-17s and F-16s are more likely to see action. The Aim-120 Indians are parading is probably from when PAF engaged InAF 3 times the day before.
> 
> 2. Where was WC Abhi's wing man. Should have been on a Mig-21 as well. He should have avenged his wing man as long as he had fuel and missiles.
> 
> 3. Why was WC Abhi, a SU-30 pilot flying a Mig-21. We know PAF moves its most experienced pilots from F-16s to JF-17s, since they have better weapon package options but move from a SU-30 to Mig-21 is a downgrade or a punishment and a waste since InAF does have a pilot to aircraft ratio shortness.
> 
> *Possible reason, just an Idea which I am throwing around. WC Abhi is a SU-30 pilot but on that day because of availability his SU-30 was not cleared to fly so he being also certified for Mig-21 took off for CAP on a Mig-21 instead while his wingmen were on their SU-30. His wingman being a SU-30 also got shot down so he didnt have backup to avenge him. By the time InAF hot scrambles were available PAF was out of the area.*
> 
> What are your takes on this theory.



Some decent theories here. Let's be clear. Mig-21 is the point interceptor in IAF and given what Indians spout here, they do have a high opinion of the upgraded version. So it could have been a tactical miscalculation as well. A Su-30 pilot flying Mig-21 would mean there were no other Flankers available. That would be strange given the size of their inventory. 

Every airforce devises strategies based on available inventory. So, IAF also has strategies involving Mig-21 as a point interceptor. These strategies are tested in wartime and the IAF simply tested theirs and found it lacking. They will probably go back to the drawing board now and rework them. We should be prepared.


----------



## Shabi1

They have a sizable inventory but it's no secret the SU-30 has a bad reputation for availability rate.

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## Republic

CriticalThought said:


> Some decent theories here. Let's be clear. Mig-21 is the point interceptor in IAF and given what Indians spout here, they do have a high opinion of the upgraded version. So it could have been a tactical miscalculation as well. A Su-30 pilot flying Mig-21 would mean there were no other Flankers available. That would be strange given the size of their inventory.
> 
> Every airforce devises strategies based on available inventory. So, IAF also has strategies involving Mig-21 as a point interceptor. These strategies are tested in wartime and the IAF simply tested theirs and found it lacking. They will probably go back to the drawing board now and rework them. We should be prepared.



India can not afford to remove it's best weapon from China border, no matter what.
So it have to use some Sukhois and most of Mig 21s at Western front considering Pakistan also don't have much advanced crofts.

Pakistan don't have any threat on its western border, so it can deploy it's best weaponry at Indian border.

That's why you will see a mix of more migs and few Sukhois in confrontation with Pakistan.


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## CriticalThought

Shabi1 said:


> They have a sizable inventory but it's no secret the SU-30 has a bad reputation for availability rate.



See the reply from Republic above. It could also be a force preservation strategy. Let PAF clock hours on their aircraft (which are fewer in numbers) and study their tactics. Then bring your own top of the line aircrafts to the battle.

It would be a strategic mistake on PAF's part to engage in a lengthy battle of attrition. They should force Indian hand through missile strikes against IAF bases.

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## Shabi1

CriticalThought said:


> See the reply from Republic above. It could also be a force preservation strategy. Let PAF clock hours on their aircraft (which are fewer in numbers) and study their tactics. Then bring your own top of the line aircrafts to the battle.
> 
> It would be a strategic mistake on PAF's part to engage in a lengthy battle of attrition. They should force Indian hand through missile strikes against IAF bases.


Turned out to be a terrible miscalculation

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## SQ8

CriticalThought said:


> See the reply from Republic above. It could also be a force preservation strategy. Let PAF clock hours on their aircraft (which are fewer in numbers) and study their tactics. Then bring your own top of the line aircrafts to the battle.
> 
> It would be a strategic mistake on PAF's part to engage in a lengthy battle of attrition. They should force Indian hand through missile strikes against IAF bases.


A bit of both, they sent their prime strike force (upgraded M2Ks) at Balakot but at the danger of being intercepted and shot down somehow blew the targeting off a fairly accurate weapon(some don’t seem to have even armed properly).

The PAF surprised them with tenacity and cooridnated ESM so you can expect they are scrambling to their Israeli and Russian liasons to divise new tactics.

Their next move prior to the pilot’s release was to adjust their ECCM and ESM tactics for a much larger strike mirroring their recent air force exercises in coordination with a Brahmos strike by the IA but that is essentially a call to war and any force attrition to the PAF more than 30% and the final weapons would be pulled out of storage and mated to their launch platforms in Pakistan.

The IAF can(or could have as now world players have stepped in to resolve the issue) strike back very hard and surprise us as well, but it has massive diplomatic and real world doomsday implications that leave it confounded.
In the end, despite Bipin Rawats hot air of calling our bluff, his “banyain” is soaked with sweat. 

Less said the better of Modi - 
The actual enemy of the Indian state (not current government but state- skeleton - fabric) is their media and Hindu extremism.

Frankly, they did the job for us more than any AMRAAM could.

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## NA71

Newbie







Posts: 1
Joined: 03 Mar 2019, 02:53



03 Mar 2019, 03:57

Update: This first video has been debunked as doctored by the expert in India who debunked Indian media's own theory of F16 being shot down so he is likely trying to put out the truth.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101917182286544899
A short video has been posted on youtube which apparently shows a single engine jet chasing a dual engine jet. It could be a F16 chasing a F15 or as the video claims a JF17 chasing a Su30. Pakistan does not have any dual engine jets so it definitely cannot be a Pakistani mock dogfight. The chaser does look like JF17 but it could just be my mind playing with me.






Can experts here review and chime in. There is also another video circulating with wreckage being cleaned up on the Indian side. It is a mangled mess of metal but can anyone spot/identify the bird that crashed from the wreckage. I am attaching it with the post.

Edit: The video might be doctored in some way, or maybe the zoom in is from another source but cleverly shown cropped at the end to give it the appearance of the two desired planes. I will leave it to the experts.

Edit 2: There is a well known Indian news anchor who reported a Su 30 being shot down before even a Pakistani claimed it.






This was later retracted. The same Anchor then tried to put the story out that it was a F16 engine that Pakistanis showed, but the analyst sitting there debunked his own compatriot's theory.

https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/sta ... 5775425536

^^ This last video clip is worth watching for Aviation fans.
http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=29726

further on F-16.NET a member said"

Exactly, I have a side by side image of the crashed wreckage that they're claiming to be an F-16 and an actual PW-F100 engine on a USAF F-16. the Size difference is immense. 
See here: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55055&start=120

So far, their strongest claim to the F-16 shot down is the AMRAAM wreckage, when I told one of them that it could have come from a missile that missed, they told me that it was a WVR fight and that AMRAAMs are not intended for WVR. 

I said that many of the AMRAAMs kills historically came from WVR shots and it is a very potent WVR weapon albeit more expensive. I was countered by saying Pakistan will not use it in WVR because they are poor. 

Personally I am on India's side during this whole situation, I think it was right for them to bomb terrorist camps that were threatening their citizens. But now that they have lost an aircraft to the Pakistani's it seems that they let their nationalistic pride get the best of them. Every scrap of metal on the ground is an F-16 to them now.

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## ZAC1

Oracle said:


> View attachment 543917
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> 
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> 
> View attachment 543919
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> View attachment 543927


International besti


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## ARMalik

My question is *Spice 2000 Missiles *which India used have a high accuracy, some say 99%. How can these missile MISS their targets?? I still don't really get this - what could have stopped these missiles from reaching their targets?


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## CriticalThought

ARMalik said:


> My question is *Spice 2000 Missiles *which India used have a high accuracy, some say 99%. How can these missile MISS their targets?? I still don't really get this - what could have stopped these missiles from reaching their targets?



This may have been their first use in hilly terrain.


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## Moon

ARMalik said:


> My question is *Spice 2000 Missiles *which India used have a high accuracy, some say 99%. How can these missile MISS their targets?? I still don't really get this - what could have stopped these missiles from reaching their targets?


How about this:
What if there were no targets and the Indians are lying?


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## ARMalik

CriticalThought said:


> This may have been their first use in hilly terrain.



These missiles/bombs combine *Satellite Navigation *and *Electro-optical guidance*, and its targets can be changed and controlled inflight. hence it is extremely unlikely that these will miss their targets.

So all I am saying that something has happened due to which these bombs/missile have not reached their targets. Is there a counter measure to stop these bombs?


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## Mani2020

Interesting

Crux of the story

2 jf17s locked on to two aircarfts and made bvr hits

One aircraft was mig 21 while the other one was either mirage 2000 or su-30 ..still confusion between these two

The helicopter downed within their territory was a hit from their own aircraft ..which mistook it as an enemy target

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## CriticalThought

ARMalik said:


> These missiles/bombs combine *Satellite Navigation *and *Electro-optical guidance*, and its targets can be changed and controlled inflight. hence it is extremely unlikely that these will miss their targets.



Electro-optical was useless because the IAF aircrafts were scrambling back in haste. And GPS IS satellite navigation. Try driving around in Sydney CBD using GPS.


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## ghazi768

Shabi1 said:


> Now I have some points on the aircraft that is confirmed to be downed. Need your comments.
> 
> 1. Why did InAF deploy the Mig-21 Bison in such a hot zone. It is a good interceptor but when you know you are in a conflict situation you should plan and deploy your most capable CAP assets eg SU-30s, Mig-29s etc. Surely InAF planners are not idiots. Even PAF withdrew F-7PGs and re allocated fighters so JF-17s and F-16s are more likely to see action. The Aim-120 Indians are parading is probably from when PAF engaged InAF 3 times the day before.



Their forward bases deploy Mig-21s and in some cased Mig-29s as well as interceptors, that is their job to act as interceptors. And as these jet fighters do not have good radar or network based SA so are strictly controlled by GC or from an AWACS which moves them around to try to place them in an advantageous position but these tactics/doctrine are now old but is still required for such aircrafts.



Shabi1 said:


> 2. Where was WC Abhi's wing man. Should have been on a Mig-21 as well. He should have avenged his wing man as long as he had fuel and missiles.



In the ensuing battle and it's confusion, got separated or turned away when warned of a missile threat by GC.



Shabi1 said:


> 3. Why was WC Abhi, a SU-30 pilot flying a Mig-21. We know PAF moves its most experienced pilots from F-16s to JF-17s, since they have better weapon package options but move from a SU-30 to Mig-21 is a downgrade or a punishment and a waste since InAF does have a pilot to aircraft ratio shortness.



Usually other airforces keep pilot on a single platform or rotate them around for gaining certification and experience on multiple platforms and than assign their best and brightest to their best platforms. But in case of IAF, that is the most incredulous thing but is true and known, IAF shifts its most trained and experienced fighters to its most obsolete and weak platforms and hands its best platforms to more in-experienced ones. The standard reason given by them is that newer platforms are easier to fly so are handed to younger pilots while older platforms which are not fly by wire are handed to experienced pilots. In a way it also shows a window into IAFs mentality, it gives preference to machines it have over the pilots it have.

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## aziqbal

I have another question was the second BVR hit on the two seater inside Indian territory

Also did Pakistan enter Indian territory ?

PAF laid the trap from Nowshera district ?


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## Sine Nomine

Oscar said:


> The IAF can(or could have as now world players have stepped in to resolve the issue) strike back very hard and surprise us as well, but it has massive diplomatic and real world doomsday implications that leave it confounded.


How to reverse that scenario?


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## Ali_Baba

I think China should give PAF samples of both the PL-10 and PL-15 so that we can battle test them against the IAF. They will gain valuable knowledge and experience through this. We know the PL-5 and SD-10A have worked very well and we have lots of data from that encounter we can use for further analysis.

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## SrNair

Taimur Khurram said:


> No, they said they were searching for three because they knew a second dual seater (Su-30MKI) went down. They only found two. The third one is in your land, possibly dead.
> 
> As for our 2nd friend, he probably died in hospital. Pakistan is keeping it's mouth shut to prevent further escalation.
> 
> The gap between a Flanker and a Thunder, or a Flanker and a Viper is far less than the gap between a Viper and a Bison. If a dual seater went down, it's probably a Flanker. Especially when one considers the US hasn't blasted Pakistan yet (which it would if Vipers were used).



If one died in Pak hospital that means he will MIA .like they did for Mig 21 pilot.

Its simple logic ,you cant brush the loss of a pilot under the carpet .
Your forces had a history to disown your own soldiers during Kargil war .So that kind of shitty logic may applicable in that side.Not here .

F 16 also has dual seat version.



Darvesh said:


> No body is buying this even your own people. All what you are saying is utterly stupid and embarrassing you further. Why waiting for the dust to settle? Expose liars, debunk Pakistan's made up fairytales, uncover Pakistan's contradicting information, beat your chest, unleash your wrath and make a come back.
> 
> I offer my shoulder. You can have other one too for two more pilots but..... Pakistan really played well



Yup.
Really played well so that everyone could understand that.

We dont want to humilate your firces anymore,but if they push again we will also release the evidences also

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## Shabi1

SrNair said:


> If one died in Pak hospital that means he will MIA .like they did for Mig 21 pilot.
> 
> Its simple logic ,you cant brush the loss of a pilot under the carpet .
> Your forces had a history to disown your own soldiers during Kargil war .So that kind of shitty logic may applicable in that side.Not here .
> 
> F 16 also has dual seat version.



Only Indian propaganda says we disown soldiers and their credibility is now very apparent.

We celebrate our dead and are proud of our shaheeds. Each shaheed gets reported in media. Get this out of your head.

Yes F-16 has a dual seater but Indian story has always been a single downed Pakistani pilot not two. Whereas there is now a eyewitness video of 3 ejections.

Will be all clear once hostilities end and PAF will be able to release HUD footage without risk of Indian backlash. If InAF has such proof nothing stopping to share right now.

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## CaptainNemo

Just sharing what I learned from a friend. His contact in govt shared that Russians had reached out and asked us to not highlight that PAF downed an SU-30.
He thought this might be a reason why this story shifted.
I am not sure how this helps Pakistan by suppressing the news, but maybe other more knowledgeable members can shed light on it. Or maybe this angle doesn't make sense...

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## Great Janjua

SrNair said:


> If one died in Pak hospital that means he will MIA .like they did for Mig 21 pilot.
> 
> Its simple logic ,you cant brush the loss of a pilot under the carpet .
> Your forces had a history to disown your own soldiers during Kargil war .So that kind of shitty logic may applicable in that side.Not here .
> 
> F 16 also has dual seat version.


I'll bust all your claims now listen. let's say f-16 was downed with two pilots then why has India not captured the pilot that landed in India even locals have verified that at least 100 percent one parachute landed in IOK

Go capture him why you still on PDF

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## Maxpane



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## aziqbal

Former air chief has pretty much confirmed what happened 

No one can now say it’s unconfirmed reports 

Only thing he did not elaborate on was the nature of the second aircraft 

I just wished he didn’t stop short of saying it was a Su30 MKI

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## SrNair

Great Janjua said:


> I'll bust all your claims now listen. let's say f-16 was downed with two pilots then why has India not captured the pilot that landed in India even locals have verified that at least 100 percent one parachute landed in IOK
> 
> Go capture him why you still on PDF



No parachute landed in India .
If anyone lands we need to present them in front of the nations.
Our democracy give too much freedomvto do all kind of shit so even a CM can insult nation and her forces for her own politics .
If a single word from any neighbour ,not even from relatives ,but from a neighbour of a covered up killed pilot ,then it would be enough medias and opposition will Govt.
Our forces were defending our nation ,so even if there casuality we will accept infact good for diplomatic efforts .

So save that story to yourselvess.

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## Shabi1

SrNair said:


> No parachute landed in India .
> If anyone lands we need to present them in front of the nations.
> Our democracy give too much freedomvto do all kind of shit so even a CM can insult nation and her forces for her own politics .
> If a single word from any neighbour ,not even from relatives ,but from a neighbour of a covered up killed pilot ,then it would be enough medias and opposition will Govt.
> Our forces were defending our nation ,so even if there casuality we will accept infact good for diplomatic efforts .
> 
> So save that story to yourselvess.



You lost all credibility when your airforce claimed 250-300 dead in front of entire world. A matured democracy doesnt engage in warmongering for elections. No coming back from there. Modi Jee has made a joke of India

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## SrNair

CaptainNemo said:


> Just sharing what I learned from a friend. His contact in govt shared that Russians had reached out and asked us to not highlight that PAF downed an SU-30.
> He thought this might be a reason why this story shifted.
> I am not sure how this helps Pakistan by suppressing the news, but maybe other more knowledgeable members can shed light on it. Or maybe this angle doesn't make sense...



Great story .
You have a future in lollywood scripts.

Cut this BS , defending a nation is not a tallying of numbersv.
If there is a loss then we will accept loss .
Thats all

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## Great Janjua

SrNair said:


> No parachute landed in India .
> If anyone lands we need to present them in front of the nations.
> Our democracy give too much freedomvto do all kind of shit so even a CM can insult nation and her forces for her own politics .
> If a single word from any neighbour ,not even from relatives ,but from a neighbour of a covered up killed pilot ,then it would be enough medias and opposition will Govt.
> Our forces were defending our nation ,so even if there casuality we will accept infact good for diplomatic efforts .
> 
> So save that story to yourselvess.


So the locals are lying....You seemed stupid but I can rest my case now that you are stupid


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## SrNair

Shabi1 said:


> You lost all credibility when your airforce claimed 250-300 dead in front of entire world. No coming back from there.



Its better to donot push them too much .They dont want to humiliate again so they are keeping silence only for NOW.

IAF is not that idiot to go to KPK without any relevent intelligence .
Your govt anyway forced to confirms its later after denied it first because video from locals was out.



Great Janjua said:


> So the locals are lying....You seemed stupid but I can rest my case now that you are stupid



Which locals ?
Your locals? Poor people what can they do ?

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## ghazi768

aziqbal said:


> I have another question was the second BVR hit on the two seater inside Indian territory


I do not thing so they were 2-3 km inside but I think it is not possible to be accurate as they were right above LOC. But the decision to fire was made when they were roughly on their side but approaching fast and trying to acquire targets. Su-30s were acting as a high altitude escort for interceptors moving at medium altitudes.



aziqbal said:


> Also did Pakistan enter Indian territory ?


Certainly



aziqbal said:


> PAF laid the trap from Nowshera district ?


Although it was painted as such by Indians but is not accurate per se. Part of the flight was escorting others, while many more were staying back to act either as high altitude escort as well as others to rush in if a furball developed with more of IAFs fighters joining in.

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## SrNair

Indus Pakistan said:


> #takethatindia
> 
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/world/asia/pakistan-india-pilot-kashmir.html?module=inline



Too much PR effort to cover up the shame

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## Shabi1

SrNair said:


> Its better to donot push them too much .They dont want to humiliate again so they are keeping silence only for NOW.
> 
> IAF is not that idiot to go to KPK without any relevent intelligence .
> Your govt anyway forced to confirms its later after denied it first because video from locals was out.



You've stopped making sense. 

Nothing stopping India, they are free to share everything and it is what Indian gov is under great pressure to do so.

So if you have proof please share of downing. Else remain quiet and troll your own gov to give the proof. When the time is appropriate we trust ISPR will share details, in the meantime we trust our government/armed forces and their word.



SrNair said:


> Too much PR effort to cover up the shame


Its now a tourist attraction we shot a Mig-21 and no denying that.

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## SrNair

Shabi1 said:


> You've stopped making sense.
> 
> Nothing stopping India, they are free to share everything and it is what Indian gov is under great pressure to do so.
> 
> So if you have proof please share of downing. Else remain quiet and troll your own gov to give the proof. When the time is appropriate we trust ISPR will share details, in the meantime we trust our government/armed forces and their word.
> 
> 
> Its now a tourist attraction we shot a Mig-21 and no denying that.



We have used classified equipments with SAR radars and Su .
So after the battle damage assessment and Chief report .They will relese evidence .

We dont want to compromise on our classified equipments



Darvesh said:


> Now that's real jingoism despite us deflowering you.
> Bring'em on. No more bubble fantasies and bollywood farts.



Good .You should live in that bubble palace.
More benefit for us if we strikes again in future

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## NA71




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## Taimur Khurram

SrNair said:


> Your forces had a history



Your country has a history of being crapped on by Muslims, this is just the most recent affair. Now shut up and take the L before we inflict another.

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## CaptainNemo

SrNair said:


> Great story .
> You have a future in lollywood scripts.
> 
> Cut this BS , defending a nation is not a tallying of numbersv.
> If there is a loss then we will accept loss .
> Thats all



Relax dude. Reread what I said, interesting angle that had been shared with me, and was looking for the senior members for their take. I even questioned the benefits to Pak by doing this. Interesting things happen in diplomacy.


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## sohail.ishaque

Ali_Baba said:


> I think China should give PAF samples of both the PL-10 and PL-15 so that we can battle test them against the IAF. They will gain valuable knowledge and experience through this. We know the PL-5 and SD-10A have worked very well and we have lots of data from that encounter we can use for further analysis.


Yeah and may be J20 for a few days and see how many SU30 it can take out. I believe the tally would be high.

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## ziaulislam

Former jf17 director thinks
Two separate plans shot down two separate mig21 su30 with BVR engagement 
He also thinks that mi17 was shot down likely by indian airforce by mistake identity 

۔..
To me this is most reasonable explanation of what happened during that half an hour





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=336399203672806

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## sohail.ishaque

Maxpane said:


> View attachment 543958
> View attachment 543958


lol


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## ziaulislam

SrNair said:


> We have used classified equipments with SAR radars and Su .
> So after the battle damage assessment and Chief report .They will relese evidence .
> 
> We dont want to compromise on our classified equipments
> 
> 
> 
> Good .You should live in that bubble palace.
> More benefit for us if we strikes again in future


Problem is poor track record..credibility of IAF was destroyed when they falsely claimed sucess of surgical strikes..
If you think lying openly doesnt destroy your credibility than you live in fools Paradise


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## Trailer23

I know I should be uploading this clip on the Multimedia side, but what the hell...everyone is here.

If anyone ever wants to be entertained, just watch Republic TV because that is where you'll find *G. D. Bakshi*.

One of my 3 Year Twin daughters can't get enough of him whenever I see him flaring up.

Check Timecode: *44:05*

Please, please watch till the end when he imitates the other guy on the right side of the screen (& hear the others giggle in the background audio). This is India.

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## sohail.ishaque

SrNair said:


> Its better to donot push them too much *.They dont want to humiliate again so they are keeping silence only for NOW.*
> 
> IAF is not that idiot to go to KPK without any relevent intelligence .
> Your govt anyway forced to confirms its later after denied it first because video from locals was out.
> 
> 
> 
> Which locals ?
> Your locals? Poor people what can they do ?


lol.. Tell that to your Modi jee who is now accepting openly that their azz got handed to them and had they got Rafales, the results would had been different. Anyway, right now you need some burnol and 2 bollywood movies per day for atleast 7 days.


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## The Accountant

Republic said:


> India can not afford to remove it's best weapon from China border, no matter what.
> So it have to use some Sukhois and most of Mig 21s at Western front considering Pakistan also don't have much advanced crofts.
> 
> Pakistan don't have any threat on its western border, so it can deploy it's best weaponry at Indian border.
> 
> That's why you will see a mix of more migs and few Sukhois in confrontation with Pakistan.



You are still claiming your stupid instance that Pakistan do not have advance aircrafts ...

Your hatred and media has blinded you that even after bloody nose you are saying that Pakistan is weak ... lolz


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## Shabi1

SrNair said:


> We have used classified equipments with SAR radars and Su .
> So after the battle damage assessment and Chief report .They will relese evidence .
> 
> We dont want to compromise on our classified equipments
> 
> 
> 
> Good .You should live in that bubble palace.
> More benefit for us if we strikes again in future



Yes please do that. Make your battle assessments and no business here making accusations till you have proof. Sharing a Indian source.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article204302.html

And some international ones to support you in your work













As for bubble, we will believe our military spokesman unless there is proof else wise, we trust them.

To my fellow Pakistani´s lets keep the SU-30 kill on a down low till hostilities over and details are ready to be shared by our own authorities. This is not the time to flame the fire, there is already alot of shortage of burnol.

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## Suriya

ziaulislam said:


> ۔..
> To me this is most reasonable explanation of what happened during that half an hour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=336399203672806


*LOL He is even denying F16 were actually involved in this whole episode . Even a new kid on this forum knows F16 participated and even fired AMMRAMs , if not accept one of the F16 was shot down .*


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## ziaulislam

Suriya said:


> *LOL He is even denying F16 were actually involved in this whole episode . Even a new kid on this forum knows F16 participated and even fired AMMRAMs , if not accept one of the F16 was shot down .*


Which kid..whole world except 1.3b indians believe the above narrative simply because 

Once a liar always a liar..

had guys told truth on balakot the media would have taken you serious

No wonder modi said we missed rafale, the results would have been different

Even people who support india eveey propaganda cant risk to accept such an absurd claim..you guys overdid it

I mean the claim is more ridiculous than alien abductions

I mean if someone goes to doctor like this he would diagnosed with schizophrenia

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## Maxpane

no worries. How on earth an indian can believe that their migs and su 's knocked down by chinese and Pakistanti jet which is inferior to tejas

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## Shabi1

Suriya said:


> *LOL He is even denying F16 were actually involved in this whole episode . Even a new kid on this forum knows F16 participated and even fired AMMRAMs , if not accept one of the F16 was shot down .*



PAF engaged InAF three times the day before and F-16s would have participated or fired warnings. Amraam could have come from any other engagement. Finding a piece of Amraam is only proving PAF F-16 shot at you, proves nothing more. 

As per DG ISPR there was no F-16 in the PAF strike package that did our counter strikes hence their argument that couldn't have been downed since weren't sent inside. Only JF-17 and Mirage in PAF are equipped with ranged SOWs. By the way JF-17 and F-16s look very similar in the air.

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## The Accountant

Check this ... Now even modi is accepting that it was a fake sir g kal strike 2 ...

Lolz on you indians ...


https://www.financialexpress.com/in...ot-kill-union-minister-s-s-ahluwalia/1503926/


SrNair said:


> Great story .
> You have a future in lollywood scripts.
> 
> Cut this BS , defending a nation is not a tallying of numbersv.
> If there is a loss then we will accept loss .
> Thats all


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## Imran Khan




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## Trailer23

Maxpane said:


> no worries. How on earth an indian can believe that their migs and su 's knocked down by chinese and Pakistanti jet which is inferior to tejas


The Tejas…!!! Please don't insult our JF-17 or even their own Su-30's and MiG's in the same conversation with that unproven, no-good, distasteful plane Tejas.

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## Darvesh

SrNair said:


> Good .You should live in that bubble palace.
> More benefit for us if we strikes again in future



Munnay! 
Your media chirping 24 Pakistani F16 were engaged for the Indiots like you to have orgasms. I admit we gang raped you.


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## CriticalThought

Trailer23 said:


> I know I should be uploading this clip on the Multimedia side, but what the hell...everyone is here.
> 
> If anyone ever wants to be entertained, just watch Republic TV because that is where you'll find *G. D. Bakshi*.
> 
> One of my 3 Year Twin daughters can't get enough of him whenever I see him flaring up.
> 
> Check Timecode: *44:05*
> 
> Please, please watch till the end when he imitates the other guy on the right side of the screen (& hear the others giggle in the background audio). This is India.



Main bhi Pakistan hun, tum bhi Pakistan ho
Hum sab ki hai pehchan, hum sub ka Pakistan, Pakistan, Pakistan
Hum sub ka Pakistan

Unfortunately, some of us have to declare their Pakistani nationality in very loud and uneducated manner


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## Maxpane

Trailer23 said:


> The Tejas…!!! Please don't insult our JF-17 or even their own Su-30's and MiG's in the same conversation with that unproven, no-good, distasteful plane Tejas.


that was indian believe but am thankful to IAF that gave a chance to PAF to show that what a JF 17 can do. Hope KSa and other countries would think about jf 17 cuz of its reputation against mighty Su's


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## Sine Nomine

SrNair said:


> F 16 also has dual seat version.


We use that for training,never employed for strike or CAP because they are just few of them.


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## Sinnerman108

Suriya said:


> *LOL He is even denying F16 were actually involved in this whole episode . Even a new kid on this forum knows F16 participated and even fired AMMRAMs , if not accept one of the F16 was shot down .*



The indian army accepts PAF carried out bombing runs.
Has indian army shown any visuals for that ?
If IAF did so well, why has the sector commander been sacked ?

Ask yourself, what did he failed to do, to get a sacking like that

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## Basel

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Get ready to give IN another surprise.



Please give them surprise by sending their ACC and Nuclear submarines at sea bed forever if they do any misadventure.

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## Suriya

Sinnerman108 said:


> The indian army accepts PAF carried out bombing runs.
> Has indian army shown any visuals for that ?
> If IAF did so well, why has the sector commander been sacked ?
> 
> Ask yourself, what did he failed to do, to get a sacking like that


*Another blatant pakistani propaganda that , head of IAF western command was sacked .

For Bhagwans sake 28th Feb was his retirement date .


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101457245974470656

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101457250076512257*


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## Sinnerman108

Suriya said:


> *Another blatant pakistani propaganda that , head of IAF western command was sacked .
> 
> For Bhagwans sake 28th Feb was his retirement date .
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101457245974470656
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101457250076512257*



Janu Jee, 
you can choose to believe what you want; it's a matter of optics only.
No change of command happens during conflict. That is a rule of command. 

Now back to the bombing runs .. why isn't any information coming out of it ?

Where was your Army chief at the time ?

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> *Another blatant pakistani propaganda that , head of IAF western command was sacked .
> 
> For Bhagwans sake 28th Feb was his retirement date .
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101457245974470656
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101457250076512257*



So India is refuting PAK claim by stating he retired! HAHAHAHA! Ofcourse they are not going to publicize the real reason so they kindly asked him to resign for screwing up so bad.


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## Republic

The Accountant said:


> You are still claiming your stupid instance that Pakistan do not have advance aircrafts ...
> 
> Your hatred and media has blinded you that even after bloody nose you are saying that Pakistan is weak ... lolz



Cool down. We are all mature people. You don't need to be high on hormones to put your point. I can understand it in formal tone also.


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## ziaulislam

IAF lost credibility in international media due to their ridiculous claim of killing terrorist in balakot..had they not claimed that media would have considered their claim seriously ..

Of course from 1965/71 experience we know this is not new behavior 

Look up in youtube. Pakistani pilot joking in 1965 infront of british media that indians have claimed to shot me down now 5 times and here i am alive

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## The Accountant

Republic said:


> Cool down. We are all mature people. You don't need to be high on hormones to put your point. I can understand it in formal tone also.


In that case either you are an exception or not an Indian as despite of 426 pages of clear facts from pakistan Indians are still in search of downed F16 and have 400 graves of imaginary terrorists ...


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## ziaulislam



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## Republic

The Accountant said:


> In that case either you are an exception or not an Indian as despite of 426 pages of clear facts from pakistan Indians are still in search of downed F16 and have 400 graves of imaginary terrorists ...


 
There are many types of people in India Pakistan, every body has is own upbringing, education and ideology. In India we can have diverse views on any matter in any situation with out any fear. You should check the language and tone of a person and if necessary, check his profile. No need to engage everybody.

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## MBT 3000

this thread is massive..


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## Maxpane

ziaulislam said:


>


they were troling lol


----------



## mshan44

I think they are still upto something lets see

guys everyone should upload videos of abhinandanpilot getting caught in pakistan which got deleted on youtube on request of indian governement everyone should upload it more and more

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## ziaulislam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101887370348163072

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## Smoke

ziaulislam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101887370348163072


Oh my god... thats faker than abhi's mom's bossoms. Seriously.. grenade fattay.. hahaha


----------



## TheDarkKnight

Suriya said:


> *LOL He is even denying F16 were actually involved in this whole episode . Even a new kid on this forum knows F16 participated and even fired AMMRAMs , if not accept one of the F16 was shot down .*


Amazing you Indians manage to provide some proof of F16 firing an AMRAAM behind IAF, and that equates to an F16 kill!!!



SrNair said:


> If one died in Pak hospital that means he will MIA .like they did for Mig 21 pilot.
> 
> *Its simple logic ,you cant brush the loss of a pilot under the carpet* .
> Your forces had a history to disown your own soldiers during Kargil war .So that kind of shitty logic may applicable in that side.Not here .
> 
> F 16 also has dual seat version.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.
> Really played well so that everyone could understand that.
> 
> We dont want to humilate your firces anymore,but if they push again we will also release the evidences also


Ok for the last time 
, IF F16 was down then there is no way we mistook OUR own pilots, who wear PAF badge and Flag with ID #, for an IAF pilot!! If we took him to the hospital, you think we still couldnt figure out that our own jet is shot and the pilot is from PAF! 
Either DGISPR was simply lied about the second pilot OR its actually Pak aaving India further embarrassment OR it maybe The poor chap died of injuries and Pak reversed it to not escalate te situation. Take your pick - but definitely the theory of we mistaking PAF pilot as IAF is absurd.


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## ziaulislam

TheDarkKnight said:


> Amazing you Indians manage to provide some proof of F16 firing an AMRAAM behind IAF, and that equates to an F16 kill!!!
> 
> 
> Ok for the last time
> , IF F16 was down then there is no way we mistook OUR own pilots, who wear PAF badge and Flag with ID #, for an IAF pilot!! If we took him to the hospital, you think we still couldnt figure out that our own jet is shot and the pilot is from PAF!
> Either DGISPR was simply lied about the second pilot OR its actually Pak aaving India further embarrassment OR it maybe The poor chap died of injuries and Pak reversed it to not escalate te situation. Take your pick - but definitely the theory of we mistaking PAF pilot as IAF is absurd.


Or because when abhi was taken to the hospital he thought it was second pilot..

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## TheDarkKnight

ziaulislam said:


> Or because when abhi was taken to the hospital he thought it was second pilot..


My gut feeling is that the second injured IAF pilot died of injuries OR the IAF has abandoned him under civil govt pressure (to save Modis face) which is actually even worse as Pakistan is then free from all obligations on how he is treated to extract information- Indians should actually be vigilant in asking their govt if this is not true, and account for all losses instead of getting played into Modis hand, who didn’t care to let 1000s of Muslims get butchered in Gujrat for his politics.


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## SrNair

TheDarkKnight said:


> Amazing you Indians manage to provide some proof of F16 firing an AMRAAM behind IAF, and that equates to an F16 kill!!!
> 
> 
> Ok for the last time
> , IF F16 was down then there is no way we mistook OUR own pilots, who wear PAF badge and Flag with ID #, for an IAF pilot!! If we took him to the hospital, you think we still couldnt figure out that our own jet is shot and the pilot is from PAF!
> Either DGISPR was simply lied about the second pilot OR its actually Pak aaving India further embarrassment OR it maybe The poor chap died of injuries and Pak reversed it to not escalate te situation. Take your pick - but definitely the theory of we mistaking PAF pilot as IAF is absurd.



What if he was totally bad shape and cant easily identify?

MIA of a pilots is very serious in India.
So this story wont work here


----------



## Ahassan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101333283298861056


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## TheDarkKnight

SrNair said:


> What if he was totally bad shape and cant easily identify?
> 
> MIA of a pilots is very serious in India.
> So this story wont work here


You are now just adding more *assumptions* to a claim that is already just based on assumptions (no clear evidence of F16 crash or mob lynching of a pilot), which with all due is becomming absurd. Even if I take this assumption for the sake of argument as I am a lenient person, what about the *uniform*, the *badges*, the *flag* that every soldier wears, the *douchments* and *ID* that everyone carries? So this shows that those were not PAF pilots mistaken for IAF, as I would similarly expect for IAF to not mistake its own downed pilots for PAF pilots - the identity would have been determimed by the time they were admitted to the hospital !


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## ghazi52



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## Ultima Thule

mikeexpendable93 said:


> Here is the video clip that shows PAF aircraft was down and at least 2 PAF pilots deployed their parachutes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=377329919777044


Might be your raptor of the east MKI @mikeexpendable93


The wheel of time said:


> *Taiwan Air Force rebuffs Pakistani Claims. Says Aim 120 serial no. does not belongs to Taiwan. *
> 
> The Air Force in Taipei said Friday afternoon that after checking the information, it had concluded that the identification numbers shown did not match any of its missiles, and were not compatible with any weapons systems in its possession, the Central News Agency reported.
> 
> https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3648621


Ok then its a prove that something down in IOK either MKI or twin seat MIG-29 by F-16+ AMRAAM @The wheel of time

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## Dazzler

Haris Khan on pakdef also confirmed that 1 mki was downed using a bvr missile. Footage, or news may be out soon.

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## ghazi52



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## Pakhtoon yum

Dazzler said:


> Haris Khan on pakdef also confirmed that 1 mki was downed using a bvr missile. Footage, or news may be out soon.


For realzies?


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## hellsingfan

Dazzler said:


> Haris Khan on pakdef also confirmed that 1 mki was downed using a bvr missile. Footage, or news may be out soon.



Who's Haris Khan? And how trustworthy is he? Sorry I'm new around here


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## Dazzler

hellsingfan said:


> Who's Haris Khan? And how trustworthy is he? Sorry I'm new around here



Among more authentic insiders. i would take his word any day.

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## Maarkhoor

Dazzler said:


> Among more authentic insiders. i would take his word any day.


My school mate S.L of F.16 witch is not part of the retaliation team upon contacted by me he just replied that we have shot down big fat boggy.

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## Dazzler

Maarkhoor said:


> My school mate S.L of F.16 witch is not part of the retaliation team upon contacted by me he just replied that we have shot down big fat boggy.



The one that landed at the other side of the border.

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101717524117254145


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## GumNaam

Maarkhoor said:


> My school mate S.L of F.16 witch is not part of the retaliation team upon contacted by me he just replied that we have shot down big fat boggy.


makes sense. there is just far too much mistrust between Pakistan and india's new "strategic ally" united states for us to risk using the F-16 especially at the moment when we were trying to send across a deliberate and overwhelming message to india to stay in auqaat! would just stupid to risk it, who knows what info that crooked uncle sam has given to the indians about our F-16s.


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## Thorough Pro

That's for the Indian Military Drama I mean Services



SrNair said:


> Great story .
> You have a future in lollywood scripts.
> 
> Cut this BS , defending a nation is not a tallying of numbersv.
> If there is a loss then we will accept loss .
> Thats all


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## Winchester

Releasing information about the SU-30 kill will depend on how Russia sees it especially since we depend on the Russians for JF-17s most important component.

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## Thorough Pro

Listen to that general scooping to such low calling him "Aby" "Tu", what an authentic dickhead.




Trailer23 said:


> I know I should be uploading this clip on the Multimedia side, but what the hell...everyone is here.
> 
> If anyone ever wants to be entertained, just watch Republic TV because that is where you'll find *G. D. Bakshi*.
> 
> One of my 3 Year Twin daughters can't get enough of him whenever I see him flaring up.
> 
> Check Timecode: *44:05*
> 
> Please, please watch till the end when he imitates the other guy on the right side of the screen (& hear the others giggle in the background audio). This is India.


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## GumNaam

Winchester said:


> Releasing information about the SU-30 kill will depend on how Russia sees it especially since we depend on the Russians for JF-17s most important component.


there's a reason why putin called modi 3 days ago. they say it was to "condole the palwama incident" but really? putin is gonna call 2 weeks later to offer condolences??? the real reason is the su30 being shot down and modi being sternly told by modi to cover it up big time as russia doesn't want to be embarrassed by the downing of one of its top most front line fighters. And Pakistan does not want to embarrass russia either and upset our new found friendship so hence, the ISPR too is keeping mum about the shooting down the su30.

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## Winchester

GumNaam said:


> there's a reason why putin called modi 3 days ago. they say it was to "condole the palwama incident" but really? putin is gonna call 2 weeks later to offer condolences??? the real reason is the su30 being shot down and modi being sternly told by modi to cover it up big time as russia doesn't want to be embarrassed by the downing of one of its top most front line fighters. And Pakistan does not want to embarrass russia either and upset our new found friendship so hence, the ISPR too is keeping mum about the shooting down the su30.


 
We should withhold information if the demand comes from the Russians. That information is way too important for us in the coming years and the Russians will appreciate the gesture.

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## Development C&P



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## undercover JIX



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## Dazzler

Thorough Pro said:


> Listen to that general scooping to such low calling him "Aby" "Tu", what an authentic dickhead.



The guy reminds me of Eustace Bagge from Courage the cowardly dog.

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## Trailer23

Thorough Pro said:


> ...what an authentic dickhead.


You know i'm going to use that quote on someone soon.


----------



## Avicenna

I'm glad he is back home and safe.

But for some reason he reminds me of this song.


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## Trailer23

GumNaam said:


> And Pakistan does not want to embarrass russia either and upset our new found friendship...


I'm sorry, but what new found friendship are you referring to? Russia would throw Pakistan under the bus for India, so I don't think there is any reason to get into the friendship bit.

As for the engines (RD33) on the JF-17, Russia is a vendor/supplier to China - not us directly and I believe the Chinese engine (WS-13) is proving to be pretty good (too).

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## GumNaam

Trailer23 said:


> I'm sorry, but what new found friendship are you referring to? Russia would throw Pakistan under the bus for India, so I don't think there is any reason to get into the friendship bit.
> 
> As for the engines (RD33) on the JF-17, Russia is a vendor/supplier to China - not us directly and I believe the Chinese engine (WS-13) is proving to be pretty good (too).


oh I know, but right now, we want the fledgling friendship to develop...we can have this "the hell with the russians" attitude once we are economically powerful.


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## scorpionx

Trailer23 said:


> I know I should be uploading this clip on the Multimedia side, but what the hell...everyone is here.
> 
> If anyone ever wants to be entertained, just watch Republic TV because that is where you'll find *G. D. Bakshi*.
> 
> One of my 3 Year Twin daughters can't get enough of him whenever I see him flaring up.
> 
> Check Timecode: *44:05*
> 
> Please, please watch till the end when he imitates the other guy on the right side of the screen (& hear the others giggle in the background audio). This is India.


These assholes like Sambit Patras are the real threat to India's national integrity today. Any dissenting voice is labelled as Pakistanis. Never in my lifetime I have seen such a pathetic political environment in this country; either you are with us or you are a Pakistani. Dumbass.

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## siegecrossbow

Development C&P said:


>



In case anyone is wondering, the blurb says "Why are you laughing, you are a Mig-21 too!"

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## Trailer23

scorpionx said:


> These assholes like Sambit Patras are the real threat to India's national integrity today. Any dissenting voice is labelled as Pakistanis. Never in my lifetime I have seen such a pathetic political environment in this country; either you are with us or you are a Pakistani. Dumbass.


In the past couple of days I've seen a couple of shows by NDTV and one would be shocked to see the kind of individuals invited - and the way they presented their views.

Now, as a Pakistani, I can't say that I wasn't surprised by the negative views, but their was class in the manner they spoke. Usually there is screaming involved - with 05 persons screaming at once and none of the viewers able to pick up anything said.

Examples:

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## undercover JIX

Veena Malik bhartiyoon ki khoob baja rahi hai...lo

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## SrNair

TheDarkKnight said:


> You are now just adding more *assumptions* to a claim that is already just based on assumptions (no clear evidence of F16 crash or mob lynching of a pilot), which with all due is becomming absurd. Even if I take this assumption for the sake of argument as I am a lenient person, what about the *uniform*, the *badges*, the *flag* that every soldier wears, the *douchments* and *ID* that everyone carries? So this shows that those were not PAF pilots mistaken for IAF, as I would similarly expect for IAF to not mistake its own downed pilots for PAF pilots - the identity would have been determimed by the time they were admitted to the hospital !



In Pakistan your force can hide the evidences if that is adversial to them.
Did you actually think those poor locals talks against honour of PAF?


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## mshan44



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## Falcon26

SrNair said:


> In Pakistan your force can hide the evidences if that is adversial to them.
> Did you actually think those poor locals talks against honour of PAF?



Says the guy whose military and political leadership are being discredited the world over today

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## Bilal Khan 777

SrNair said:


> In Pakistan your force can hide the evidences if that is adversial to them.
> Did you actually think those poor locals talks against honour of PAF?



Bravo. Keep at it. However, thank for giving us such an unprecedented multi-dimensioned victory.
P.S. If you are official OSINT, please print all my comments and give to your OIC andd bureau / cell chief to fwd to your AF's newly appointed Eastern and Western AOC, and IAF Cheif, so they grow some shame from what just happened to them.

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## SrNair

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Bravo. Keep at it. However, thank for giving us such an unprecedented multi-dimensioned victory.
> P.S. If you are official OSINT, please print all my comments and give to your OIC andd bureau / cell chief to fwd to your AF's newly appointed Eastern and Western AOC, and IAF Cheif, so they grow some shame from what just happened to them.



Enjoy with your own victory for yourselves.
From the day one DG ISPR corrected his statement several times .
Authentic ,isnt it ?

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## Falcon26

SrNair said:


> Enjoy with your own victory for yourselves.
> From the day one DG ISPR corrected his statement several times .
> Authentic ,isnt it ?



At least the DG ISPR updates his countrymen as new information comes in unlike your military that lied about every detail of the conflict only to embarrassed by the international press and experts

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## TheDarkKnight

SrNair said:


> In Pakistan your force can hide the evidences if that is adversial to them.
> Did you actually think those poor locals talks against honour of PAF?


What you wrote makes no sense now.
My point is still there:?PAF cannot mistake its own pilot as IAF, I already gave the reasons such ad badge, flag and ID that every pilot would carry. Locals beating up is just a fantasy, for which you have provided no evidence - even if true does not make it possible for PAF to mistake them as IAF as the flag and badge on the pilot would br there.
About forces hiding evidence - well so far its your forces that has not provided no evidence for what they have done: no evidence for the 300+ kill in balakot which intl media has now proved it to be false; yoir forces also first denied losing anything until we showed Abhinandan, later for fave saving claimed an F16 kill with no evidence again - which will be easily disproven once PAF does a count of its F16 fleed in front of international media; just imagine when that happens, what will you say about your forces then?

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## truthseeker2010

SrNair said:


> Enjoy with your own victory for yourselves.
> From the day one DG ISPR corrected his statement several times .
> Authentic ,isnt it ?



And you keep praising your "hero" pilot! 

Can you please elaborate the achievement of IAF pilot?

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## Vapnope

Second Pilot and @GURU DUTT are MIA (Missing in action)...

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## Riz

SrNair said:


> Enjoy with your own victory for yourselves.
> From the day one DG ISPR corrected his statement several times .
> Authentic ,isnt it ?


Maybe At that moment DGISPR was not sure that SU30MKI shoot down 80km inside india.....


----------



## Maxpane



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## Riz

Did india shoot down its own helicopter.. Interesting read

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/did-india-shoot-down-its-own-helicopter/


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## josip

Maxpane said:


> View attachment 544156


Sure you have evidences that support this claim. But dont post pics of Mi-8 wreck and claim that that is Su-30MKI.


----------



## Maxpane

josip said:


> Sure you have evidences that support this claim. But dont post pics of Mi-8 wreck and claim that that is Su-30MKI.


did i post Mi 18 wreck pic?

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## The Accountant

Dazzler said:


> The one that landed at the other side of the border.


It is a great achievement but it would have been even more enjoyable if we had war trophy on this side of the border


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## The Accountant

scorpionx said:


> These assholes like Sambit Patras are the real threat to India's national integrity today. Any dissenting voice is labelled as Pakistanis. Never in my lifetime I have seen such a pathetic political environment in this country; either you are with us or you are a Pakistani. Dumbass.


I wish we have more people in India like you ... Thankfully after suffering for almost 2 decades we have sane PM who realize that war benefits no one except for the manufacturer of weapon ...

Lets pray that sense starts prevailing in India as well before it gets too late ...

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## Great Janjua

SrNair said:


> Enjoy with your own victory for yourselves.
> From the day one DG ISPR corrected his statement several times .
> Authentic ,isnt it ?


You guys fired your so called hero......

Abhinandan unfit kab hogya [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## SrNair

Maxpane said:


> View attachment 544156



Desperation always tends fragile minds for more stupidity .
Imagination at its best .
Because we have done that is impossible at Feb 26 .Pakistan is still cant accept that and shock.
Sukhoi didnt even crossed Indian airspace only Mig 21 .

God knows what happened to those F 16 pilots

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## Maxpane

SrNair said:


> Desperation always tends fragile minds for more stupidity .
> Imagination at its best .
> Because we have done that is impossible at Feb 26 .Pakistan is still cant accept that and shock.
> Sukhoi didnt even crossed Indian airspace only Mig 21 .
> 
> God knows what happened to those F 16 pilots


SU 30 MKI

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## Amigator

SrNair said:


> Desperation always tends fragile minds for more stupidity .
> Imagination at its best .
> Because we have done that is impossible at Feb 26 .Pakistan is still cant accept that and shock.
> Sukhoi didnt even crossed Indian airspace only Mig 21 .
> 
> God knows what happened to those F 16 pilots


You can cry as long as it satisfied you! No one is accepting your false cry of F-16! Neither internationally nor locally!

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## SrNair

TheDarkKnight said:


> What you wrote makes no sense now.
> My point is still there:?PAF cannot mistake its own pilot as IAF, I already gave the reasons such ad badge, flag and ID that every pilot would carry. Locals beating up is just a fantasy, for which you have provided no evidence - even if true does not make it possible for PAF to mistake them as IAF as the flag and badge on the pilot would br there.
> About forces hiding evidence - well so far its your forces that has not provided no evidence for what they have done: no evidence for the 300+ kill in balakot which intl media has now proved it to be false; yoir forces also first denied losing anything until we showed Abhinandan, later for fave saving claimed an F16 kill with no evidence again - which will be easily disproven once PAF does a count of its F16 fleed in front of international media; just imagine when that happens, what will you say about your forces then?



What will do if that was PAF pilot ?
You cant simply accept the changes happened in Indian side .
It will take time .We can understand that .

Video was circulating in social media after Wing Co Varthaman was captured in Pakistan.Why ?
If that was Indian Pilots why didnt their video circulated in social media ?

Varthaman capture was a little relief for the already demoralised PAF and PA.
If there was a second IAF pilot it was force multiplier to PAF image that they wont waste .
India cant do anything to stop that because this was a professional engagement.
Your people cant accept that our already 
to be decommision Mig 21 could shot down most capable F 16 in its soil.
So at least for a relief in Pak cyber space you picked Su 30 (because that currently most capable Indian fighter)
We can understand everything and disappointment.
Take action against terrorists if you dont want to humilated by us again.
Because from September onwards Rafale will join IAF .
A tailor made SEAD jet second to F 22 .
Then attack like this will again happen.



Amigator said:


> You can cry as long as it satisfied you! No one is accepting your false cry of F-16! Neither internationally nor locally!



Internationally US already asked fir explanation .Russians ,Americans and others are comparing F 16 and Mig 21.

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## scorpionx

SrNair said:


> What will do if that was PAF pilot ?
> You cant simply accept the changes happened in Indian side .
> It will take time .We can understand that .
> 
> Video was circulating in social media after Wing Co Varthaman was captured in Pakistan.Why ?
> If that was Indian Pilots why didnt their video circulated in social media ?
> 
> Varthaman capture was a little relief for the already demoralised PAF and PA.
> If there was a second IAF pilot it was force multiplier to PAF image that they wont waste .
> India cant do anything to stop that because this was a professional engagement.
> Your people cant accept that our already
> to be decommision Mig 21 could shot down most capable F 16 in its soil.
> So at least for a relief in Pak cyber space you picked Su 30 (because that currently most capable Indian fighter)
> We can understand everything and disappointment.
> Take action against terrorists if you dont want to humilated by us again.
> Because from September onwards Rafale will join IAF .
> A tailor made SEAD jet second to F 22 .
> Then attack like this will again happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Internationally US already asked fir explanation .Russians ,Americans and others are comparing F 16 and Mig 21.


One thing is getting unnoticed here. The guts of Winco Abhi. That fella knew his opposite there is a bird more advanced, more agile. But he didn't back off. I am just awestruck by his belief in his training and professionalism.

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## Salza

SrNair said:


> Your people cant accept that our already
> to be decommision Mig 21 could shot down most capable F 16 in its soil.



Your chief is not sure about the F-16 shot down. Apparently your armed forces is only claiming that F-16s were also used to kick your arse by displaying that controversial missile piece. I know its hard for your types to accept the truth but you guys are almost there. Infact now your govt and armed forces are backing off from the claim of 300+ militants killed after that press conference by your liar foreign secretary. Lie is the new orange for Indians.



scorpionx said:


> One thing is getting unnoticed here. The guts of Winco Abhi. That fella knew his opposite there is a bird more advanced, more agile. But he didn't back off. I am just awestruck by his belief in his training and professionalism.



His arse was shot down by Thunder while Mirages and F16s raped your Mi-17s and 6 other targets in your side of LOC.

Remember the date Feb 27, 2019.

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## Amigator

SrNair said:


> What will do if that was PAF pilot ?
> You cant simply accept the changes happened in Indian side .
> It will take time .We can understand that .
> 
> Video was circulating in social media after Wing Co Varthaman was captured in Pakistan.Why ?
> If that was Indian Pilots why didnt their video circulated in social media ?
> 
> Varthaman capture was a little relief for the already demoralised PAF and PA.
> If there was a second IAF pilot it was force multiplier to PAF image that they wont waste .
> India cant do anything to stop that because this was a professional engagement.
> Your people cant accept that our already
> to be decommision Mig 21 could shot down most capable F 16 in its soil.
> So at least for a relief in Pak cyber space you picked Su 30 (because that currently most capable Indian fighter)
> We can understand everything and disappointment.
> Take action against terrorists if you dont want to humilated by us again.
> Because from September onwards Rafale will join IAF .
> A tailor made SEAD jet second to F 22 .
> Then attack like this will again happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Internationally US already asked fir explanation .Russians ,Americans and others are comparing F 16 and Mig 21.


Yes, on Mars! 
.
.
.
Cry Idiot Cry..... Cry your fleet of 250+ Sukhois has nothing special!

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## Enigma SIG

scorpionx said:


> One thing is getting unnoticed here. The guts of Winco Abhi. That fella knew his opposite there is a bird more advanced, more agile. But he didn't back off. I am just awestruck by his belief in his training and professionalism.


Guts over brains. FTFY.
Should've been brave but not stupid.

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## Amigator

SrNair said:


> Russians ,Americans and others are comparing F 16 and Mig 21.



Yes they are comparing "Ye mon or masor ki daal" 

@SrNair You are allow to get the fook out of here! Go and Fook Abhi Nandan arse! Your hero!

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## Vortex

scorpionx said:


> One thing is getting unnoticed here. The guts of Winco Abhi. That fella knew his opposite there is a bird more advanced, more agile. But he didn't back off. I am just awestruck by his belief in his training and professionalism.



He was watching Bollywood film then suddenly he woken up and discovered reality nothing more

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## Lahorie

Meanwhile .....

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## SrNair

scorpionx said:


> One thing is getting unnoticed here. The guts of Winco Abhi. That fella knew his opposite there is a bird more advanced, more agile. But he didn't back off. I am just awestruck by his belief in his training and professionalism.



Yup.Right Sir.
Being an experienced fighter pilot he already knows the limitation of Mig 21 and danger to be captured in enemy territory.

Yet he did what we all cant even imagine .Went inside Pak territory ,shot down their jet , clashed with the locals took a lot of hit then his straight forward denial mode without any fear .
He is a true soldier .
He really trusted his Mig 21 .
The training of IAF is such a way that they will establish a relationship between men and machine .
Kudos to IAF .

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## Saint.firewall

Read this very effect details: https://timesofislamabad.com/04-Mar...tm_source=push-notification&utm_medium=direct

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## Taimur Khurram

SrNair said:


> Yup.Right Sir.
> Being an experienced fighter pilot he already knows the limitation of Mig 21 and danger to be captured in enemy territory.
> 
> Yet he did what we all cant even imagine .Went inside Pak territory ,shot down their jet , clashed with the locals took a lot of hit then his straight forward denial mode without any fear .
> He is a true soldier .
> He really trusted his Mig 21 .
> The training of IAF is such a way that they will establish a relationship between men and machine .
> Kudos to IAF .



No matter how much you cry, he shot down nothing but India's pride.

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## 50cent

It's impossible to hide wreckage of plane IAM pretty sure there is no su30 loss only. 
Mig and helicopter loss


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## SrNair

Salza said:


> Your chief is not sure about the F-16 shot down. Apparently your armed forces is only claiming that F-16s were also used to kick your arse by displaying that controversial missile piece. I know its hard for your types to accept the truth but you guys are almost there. Infact now your govt and armed forces are backing off from the claim of 300+ militants killed after that press conference by your liar foreign secretary. Lie is the new orange for Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> His arse was shot down by Thunder while Mirages and F16s raped your Mi-17s and 6 other targets in your side of LOC.
> 
> Remember the date Feb 27, 2019.



We had ground troops that witnessed everything .
Enough said .
You dont need to trust ,let it keep like that way


----------



## mshan44



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## Salza

When entire arrogance, over confidence


SrNair said:


> *We had ground troops that witnessed everything* .
> Enough said .
> You dont need to trust ,let it keep like that way



So as we. 

P.S. your first surgical strike claim has also turned out to be farce. Lets not forget that. Spreading False information is your state policy which includes your govt and armed forces.

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## SrNair

50cent said:


> It's impossible to hide wreckage of plane IAM pretty sure there is no su30 loss only.
> Mig and helicopter loss



They cant be convinced .
They dont know how a democracy works .


----------



## Trango Towers

Pakistan doesnt care what the world thinks or india cries about. We had a job to do and we did it. Your boys got bend out and *** whipped with a wet slipper. You are still crying on the media....

India brave in the dark of the 26
India got attacked in broad daylight on the 27th feb 2019 by the shaheen.
Indian fighters got taken out by the formidable PAF youngsters.
India didnt return for tea

Have a nice day

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## The Accountant

scorpionx said:


> One thing is getting unnoticed here. The guts of Winco Abhi. That fella knew his opposite there is a bird more advanced, more agile. But he didn't back off. I am just awestruck by his belief in his training and professionalism.


This is what soldiers are trained for ... Altough he need praised but every soldier will do that unless he wanted to be court martial

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## Maxpane

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 544170


no worries


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## litman

one thing is confirmed indians are the most shameless people in the world second to israelis. that's why they are good friends.

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## SrNair

Salza said:


> When entire arrogance, over confidence
> 
> 
> So as we.
> 
> P.S. your first surgical strike claim has also turned out to be farce. Lets not forget that. Spreading False information is your state policy which includes your govt and armed forces.



There is a difference our military must answrer to a lots of superiors and Parliament
Lets talk about Surgical strike .
First report was from DG ISPR that IAF crossed Pak airspace and went inside around 3 to 4 km and chased away by PAF before they drop bomb in haste near to LoC .

Then locals from KPK said through the social media and become viral and start anti India slogan after that because they said their was bombing near to their home.

First retraction from DG ISPR .
Changed the narrative,said attack was 80 km inside KPK and said only pine trees .
Our side perhaps already calculated because being a professional army they cordon that area ,not even allow local police .Took the benefit of predawn situation cleaned up all areas within hours and changed that there was nothing in that place .

Post strike activity of Pak military was indeed impressive .Even foreign jouranlists convinced .
We can also understand because this was an embarassing situation.Your officials cant accept US invasion Abottabad let alone IAF strike in KPK.

But after the battle damage assesment ,perhaps they will release details thats not affects
the our classified details.


----------



## b4umsf

litman said:


> one thing is confirmed indians are the most shameless people in the world second to israelis. that's why they are good friends.


----------



## Salza

SrNair said:


> There is a difference our military must answrer to a lots of superiors and Parliament
> Lets talk about Surgical strike .
> First report was from DG ISPR that IAF crossed Pak airspace and went inside around 3 to 4 km and chased away by PAF before they drop bomb in haste near to LoC .
> 
> Then locals from KPK said through the social media and become viral and start anti India slogan after that because they said their was bombing near to their home.
> 
> First retraction from DG ISPR .
> Changed the narrative,said attack was 80 km inside KPK and said only pine trees .
> Our side perhaps already calculated because being a professional army they cordon that area ,not even allow local police .Took the benefit of predawn situation cleaned up all areas within hours and changed that there was nothing in that place .
> 
> Post strike activity of Pak military was indeed impressive .Even foreign jouranlists convinced .
> We can also understand because this was an embarassing situation.Your officials cant accept US invasion Abottabad let alone IAF strike in KPK.
> 
> But after the battle damage assesment ,perhaps they will release details thats not affects
> the our classified details.




_*First retraction from DG ISPR .
Changed the narrative,said attack was 80 km inside KPK and said only pine trees .
Our side perhaps already calculated because being a professional army they cordon that area ,not even allow local police .Took the benefit of predawn situation cleaned up all areas within hours and changed that there was nothing in that place .
*_
As expected, you don't know a shit and making theories of your own.

DGISPR clearly said, your jets only came 5-6 kms inside our side of LOC and from there some of your jets fired SOWs (long range) near KP Balakot, which missed the targets by long way. So there is NO retraction. And seriously LOL at cleaned up all areas within hours hahahhaa...u r just stupid. Rest of stuff you posted is trolling.

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## Bilal Khan 777

SrNair said:


> Enjoy with your own victory for yourselves.
> From the day one DG ISPR corrected his statement several times .
> Authentic ,isnt it ?



Sour grapes janab, bas karo.

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## Salza

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Sour grapes janab, bas karo.



Kya kur suktey hain ye loag. They are in a state of shock. Overconfidence took them here.

DGISPR clearly said, we will surprise and oh boy didn't they badly surprised you @SrNair 

sirf mutlab ki baat ho, woh quoate kertey hain ispr ki khali for face saving ..woh kehtey hain nah:

'Dil ko bhalaney ky liyeh Galib, Khiyaal acha hai'

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## AsianLion

PAF went out to do a mission and they made it sure it strikes and strikes hard, damaging the enemy, and fully completed the mission, that's what I love about it, *the Killer Instinct*!!!

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## Waqar Rashid

Here is a bit extended version in which army and locals can be seen going after the second pilot. Some native speakers can shed some more lights on conversations near the end.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=616442438802705

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## Dr. Abdul Basit

mshan44 said:


> View attachment 544170


Now that the story of 300 dead has lost its luster! A new story made


----------



## Maxpane

Waqar Rashid said:


> Here is a bit extended version in which army and locals can be seen going after the second pilot. Some native speakers can shed some more lights on conversations near the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=616442438802705


thank you sir


----------



## josip

Maxpane said:


> did i post Mi 18 wreck pic?


Yes you did.


----------



## Maxpane

josip said:


> Yes you did.


where . i didnt even a post of wreckage

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## ghazi768

50cent said:


> It's impossible to hide wreckage of plane IAM pretty sure there is no su30 loss only.
> Mig and helicopter loss


There is a sparsely populated mountain range with peaks rinsing 4-4.5 km above sea level roughly 30 km from border on Indian held side..
When time is right, may be in one of its publications, PAF will mention the event possibly with radar/signal intelligence data with name of wing commander who shot it down..


----------



## The Accountant

SrNair said:


> There is a difference our military must answrer to a lots of superiors and Parliament
> Lets talk about Surgical strike .
> First report was from DG ISPR that IAF crossed Pak airspace and went inside around 3 to 4 km and chased away by PAF before they drop bomb in haste near to LoC .
> 
> Then locals from KPK said through the social media and become viral and start anti India slogan after that because they said their was bombing near to their home.
> 
> First retraction from DG ISPR .
> Changed the narrative,said attack was 80 km inside KPK and said only pine trees .
> Our side perhaps already calculated because being a professional army they cordon that area ,not even allow local police .Took the benefit of predawn situation cleaned up all areas within hours and changed that there was nothing in that place .
> 
> Post strike activity of Pak military was indeed impressive .Even foreign jouranlists convinced .
> We can also understand because this was an embarassing situation.Your officials cant accept US invasion Abottabad let alone IAF strike in KPK.
> 
> But after the battle damage assesment ,perhaps they will release details thats not affects
> the our classified details.



Did you check why IAF used SPICE 2000 ? It has a gliding bomb with a range of 60 Kms ... They came to the appropriate distance and released the bombs

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## atya

Waqar Rashid said:


> Here is a bit extended version in which army and locals can be seen going after the second pilot. Some native speakers can shed some more lights on conversations near the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=616442438802705


Now that is interesting, could someone translate it please

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## Trailer23

Waqar Rashid said:


> Here is a bit extended version in which army and locals can be seen going after the second pilot. Some native speakers can shed some more lights on conversations near the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=616442438802705


Timecode: *-01:00* , they are clearly talking about a 2nd one.

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## josip

Maxpane said:


> where . i didnt even a post of wreckage



You post something muc


Maxpane said:


> where . i didnt even a post of wreckage



You did not post my mistake, but you did put photo of that kid, and that photo represent what? Claim that you downed Su-30MKI and I ask you to provide some evidence. Do you have evidence that you downd Su-30MKI? I can claim that our MiG-21Bis downed F-22 but i dont have any evidence. If you know what i mean.


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## Malik Shani

atya said:


> Now that is interesting, could someone translate it please


Person1: Second one, Where is the second one? Where is the second one?
Person2: Second one is there, Second one is there..
Person3: Second one landed up there , second one landed up there
Person 1: Where the second one landed? Where? Up there? Where the jet crashed?
Person 4: Up there. Soldiers already reached there
Person 5: He had pistol.He fired.
Person 1: landed up there right? landed up there.
Person 5: Yes

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## Maxpane

josip said:


> You post something muc
> 
> 
> You did not post my mistake, but you did put photo of that kid, and that photo represent what? Claim that you downed Su-30MKI and I ask you to provide some evidence. Do you have evidence that you downd Su-30MKI? I can claim that our MiG-21Bis downed F-22 but i dont have any evidence. If you know what i mean.


you dnt believe then dnt believe its your choice.

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## atya

Malik Shani said:


> Person1: Second one, Where is the second one? Where is the second one?
> Person2: Second one is there, Second one is there..
> Person3: Second one landed up there , second one landed up there
> Person 1: Where the second one landed? Where? Up there? Where the jet crashed?
> Person 4: Up there. Solders already reached there
> Person 5: He had pistol.He fired.
> Person 1: landed up there right? landed up there.
> Person 5: Yes


Thanks! I suppose he would the Sikh that Baba Ji mentioned


----------



## Arsalan 345

emotions are strong on both sides.for the first time,i have seen indians emotional.i think indian pilots were emotional when they were chasing our fighters and trapped.india always use strategy but this time,they failed.

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## IceCold

Arsalan 345 said:


> emotions are strong on both sides.for the first time,i have seen indians emotional.i think indian pilots were emotional when they were chasing our fighters and trapped.india always use strategy but this time,they failed.


Indians thought they were chasing us with raptors...lol

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## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102162309345095681

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## Arsalan 345

IceCold said:


> Indians thought they were chasing us with raptors...lol



yes and finally we took our revenge of atlantique incident.i believe we hit mi-17 as well.

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## Maxpane

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102162309345095681


this saga is not clear yet

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## monitor

Maxpane said:


> this saga is not clear yet



this will not solve soon .


----------



## josip

Maxpane said:


> you dnt believe then dnt believe its your choice.


Downing of airplane is not religion.


----------



## Maxpane

monitor said:


> this will not solve soon .


until PAF release footage

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## ARMalik

It's not over yet guys. Not sure if ARY news is bullshi.tting or if it is true.


----------



## Maxpane

josip said:


> Downing of airplane is not religion.


ok .PAF knocked down the mighty MKI 



ARMalik said:


> It's not over yet guys. Not sure if ARY news is bullshi.tting or if it is true.


sir i think there is some truth here and USA wants to destroy us .

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## ARMalik

This is a very good video!

https://arynews.tv/en/indians-anti-army-slogans-go-back-modi/


----------



## josip

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102162309345095681


You can clearly see rotor and blades on this video, and people on this forum stil troling again and again. Where is Su-30MKI crash site? Please provide relevant video, wee are not kids.



Maxpane said:


> ok .PAF knocked down the mighty MKI
> 
> 
> sir i think there is some truth here and USA wants to destroy us .


Keep beliving in it. If you repeat again and again it will become truth.


----------



## Maxpane

josip said:


> You can clearly see rotor and blades on this video, and people on this forum stil troling again and again. Where is Su-30MKI crash site? Please provide relevant video, wee are not kids.
> 
> 
> Keep beliving in it. If you repeat again and again it will become truth.


killer of migs and mighty su 
guess 
who who who
its our thunder
its our thunder 
its our thunder

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## untitled

ARMalik said:


> It's not over yet guys. Not sure if ARY news is bullshi.tting or if it is true.


Which country could the unnamed country be?


----------



## aliyusuf

Could be the US of A.


----------



## ARMalik

member.exe said:


> Which country could be the unnamed country?



Very murky at this stage. Some members were pointing fingers at US and others at Russia.

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## Deino

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102162309345095681




Nope ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102275309309739014

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## monitor

Deino said:


> Nope ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102275309309739014



I shared it as it was shred by an important person so i consider it may be true . in fact both sides are hiding something and playing propaganda/ psychological war against each other though social media .

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## Bilal Khan 777

SrNair said:


> Let it be.
> Our mission was terrorists not Pakistan or its military .
> Hopes this will take as a reason by Pak military to eliminate all terrorists inside the Pakistan



Your mission made you or your weapons (which btw failed too) cross the IB. Let it be a lesson to your country. Everytime you will try to cross the IB, you will get a surprise. Surprise surprise.

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## SrNair

The Accountant said:


> Did you check why IAF used SPICE 2000 ? It has a gliding bomb with a range of 60 Kms ... They came to the appropriate distance and released the bombs



Agreed.
But it was laser guided right.
It wasnt a JDAM.
So fighter should be the proximity until it hit the targets



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Your mission made you or your weapons (which btw failed too) cross the IB. Let it be a lesson to your country. Everything you will try to cross the IB, you will get a surprise. Surprise surprise.



There is nothing surprise here.
If that was a surprise ,our military installation wouldnt have been there .

We were expecting some kind of retaliation.
And we dont want to escalate it ,that is why only 8 jets confronted 24.

We were prepared and planned


----------



## Vortex

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102162309345095681



No. 2 JF17.

I’m not expert but if one was been chased then it should gone full after burners. Am I wrong?

Here a more clear video





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2199810536762366

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## ghazi768

SrNair said:


> Agreed.
> But it was laser guided right.
> It wasnt a JDAM.
> So fighter should be the proximity until it hit the targets
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing surprise here.
> If that was a surprise ,our military installation wouldnt have been there .
> 
> We were expecting some kind of retaliation.
> And we dont want to escalate it ,that is why only 8 jets confronted 24.
> 
> We were prepared and planned


if they were Spice 2000 than not laser guided, Spice uses GPS for navigating near to target and than use scene matching for target recognition and then hit that target.


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Wing.com Numan Ali Khan got 2nd kill...……….. According to Ary news channel ticker 
@Windjammer , @HRK ,

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## TsAr

scorpionx said:


> One thing is getting unnoticed here. The guts of Winco Abhi. That fella knew his opposite there is a bird more advanced, more agile. But he didn't back off. I am just awestruck by his belief in his training and professionalism.


This is what he was trained and paid for, MIG 21 is the first line of defense for India. Its their primary interceptor. I am sure they would have trained for every fighter Pakistan has in the inventory.
I think IAF was caught by surprise. I broad daylight they were not expecting PAF so soon, within 24hrs of their attack


----------



## NA71

slowly ARY with permission of PAF/ISPR begins to feed news to viewers.....name of 2nd pilot and than next wiill be video recording.


----------



## SABRE

member.exe said:


> Which country could the unnamed country be?



Probably America. It's been somewhat brought up tacitly in some circles. Another contender has been Iran. Don't know why either would be stupid enough to do that.


----------



## HRK

CHACHA"G" said:


> Wing.com Numan Ali Khan got 2nd kill...……….. According to Ary news channel ticker
> @Windjammer , @HRK ,

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## Path-Finder

*JF-17, not F-16, used in air combat: report*



none@none.com (Anwar Iqbal)

14 hrs ago






© Provided by Dawn The JF-17 is a Chinese-designed fighter jet produced jointly by Pakistan and China. — APP/File
WASHINGTON: Apparently, it was a JF-17 fighter jet that brought down an Indian warplane in Azad Jammu and Kashmir last week, says a _CNN_ report as an American diplomat said Washington wanted to know if Pakistan used a US-built F-16 jet to shoot the plane.

The JF-17 is a Chinese-designed fighter jet produced jointly by Pakistan and China.

“It may have been one of those jets that on Wednesday downed an Indian Air Force fighter plane, leading to the capture by Pakistan of an Indian pilot” Abhinandan Varthaman, said the _CNN_ report released this weekend. The report also noted that the Indian jet was a MiG-21, a Soviet-designed aircraft, which has been in service since the 1960s. The MiG-21 “forms the backbone” of the Indian Air Force, which has about 200 of those in its inventory.

Nishank Motwani, a visiting fellow at the Asia-Pacific College of Diplomacy, Acton, Australia, told _CNN_ that Indian pilots called the plane “a flying coffin” because it had been involved in multiple accidents.

“And that illustrates a problem for India. While it has a massive military budget, a significant chunk of that goes toward maintenance of existing equipment, and salaries,” the report added.

The report included a quote from a recent inquiry by an Indian parliament committee, saying: “Modernisation gets a mere 14 per cent (of allocated funds), which is grossly inadequate.”

A spokesperson for the US Embassy in Islamabad told the _Reuters_ news agency on Sunday that the United States was “seeking information” on whether Pakistan used US-built F-16 jets to down the Indian warplane, which may violate the F-16 sale agreements between Washington and Islamabad.

Pakistan said it did not use F-16s in shooting down the Indian fighter jet when it crossed the Line of Control. Islamabad also said that this was an act of self-defence.

“We are aware of these reports and are seeking more information,” the US Embassy spokesperson said. “We take all allegations of misuse of defence articles very seriously.”

The US often inserts restrictions on how its exported military hardware can be used through so-called end-user agreements.

India claimed that AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile had been fired recently, showing that F-16 Viper fighter jets were “at least involved” in recent strikes in the region. Pakistan rejected the Indian claim as completely baseless. India also claimed that it shot down one of the Vipers.

Pakistan rejected this claim as well, saying that since it had not used any F-16 jets, the question of one being shot down did not arise.

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/jf-17-not-f-16-used-in-air-combat-report/ar-BBUkTgg

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## TsAr

SrNair said:


> Our longrange weapons are not satelite guided it was a laser guided .So fighter should be around the premises for sometime at .5 km wont be enough .


So you are denying your own airforce claim that they used Spice2000 bombs and did not cross LOC

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## NA71

Breaking news.....Media reporting PAF about to release details of PAF dogfight details shortly.

Aaj Tv/Geonews reporting

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## Secret Service

nahmed71 said:


> Breaking news.....Media reporting PAF about to release details of PAF dogfight details shortly.
> 
> Aaj Tv/Geonews reporting


Interesting...i hope they will break the story of su 30.

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## Shabi1

secretservice said:


> Interesting...i hope they will break the story of su 30.


Not sure of the aircraft type could be a mig as well but I've heard whispers that InAF pilot at CMH passed away.
Will have to wait and see.


----------



## mshan44

*انڈین ائیر مارشل کی مزید لڑاکا طیارے پاکستانی حدود میں بھجوانے کی دھمکی دھمکی کا سن کر پاکستانی کباڑیوں میں شدید غم و غصہ، کہتے ہیں کوئی اس کباڑ کو خریدتا ہے نہیں بس سیلفیاں لینے آجاتے ہیں اوئے مودی انی دیا تو رافیل ہی خرید ہمارے کباڑیوں کا کباڑ تو بکے*

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## Vortex

mshan44 said:


> *انڈین ائیر مارشل کی مزید لڑاکا طیارے پاکستانی حدود میں بھجوانے کی دھمکی دھمکی کا سن کر پاکستانی کباڑیوں میں شدید غم و غصہ، کہتے ہیں کوئی اس کباڑ کو خریدتا ہے نہیں بس سیلفیاں لینے آجاتے ہیں اوئے مودی انی دیا تو رافیل ہی خرید ہمارے کباڑیوں کا کباڑ تو بکے*




Could you translate please ?
Thanks


----------



## sohail.ishaque

TheDarkKnight said:


> My gut feeling is that the second injured IAF pilot died of injuries OR the IAF has abandoned him under civil govt pressure (to save Modis face) which is actually even worse as Pakistan is then free from all obligations on how he is treated to extract information- Indians should actually be vigilant in asking their govt if this is not true, and account for all losses instead of getting played into Modis hand, who didn’t care to let 1000s of Muslims get butchered in Gujrat for his politics.


or may be he gets exchanged for col habib,.. they won't have to admit it and we'll get our hero back.


----------



## SrNair

Vortex said:


> No. 2 JF17.
> 
> I’m not expert but if one was been chased then it should gone full after burners. Am I wrong?
> 
> Here a more clear video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2199810536762366



Both are JF 17 seems.



ghazi768 said:


> if they were Spice 2000 than not laser guided, Spice uses GPS for navigating near to target and than use scene matching for target recognition and then hit that target.



Spice 2000 EO type uses laser guiding system.
Why should we use GPS when we have IRNSS?



TsAr said:


> So you are denying your own airforce claim that they used Spice2000 bombs and did not cross LOC



They did use Spice2000 but was laser guided.


----------



## Vortex

SrNair said:


> Both are JF 17 seems.


That's what I said in my post. Maybe my English is poor so my message could be understood differently


----------



## TsAr

SrNair said:


> Both are JF 17 seems.
> 
> 
> 
> Spice 2000 EO type uses laser guiding system.
> Why should we use GPS when we have IRNSS?
> 
> 
> 
> They did use Spice2000 but was laser guided.


But your airforce is now disputing this claim, they are saying now that IAF planes never crossed LOC. This is getting confusing now.


----------



## Vortex

TsAr said:


> But your airforce is now disputing this claim, they are saying now that IAF planes never crossed LOC. This is getting confusing now.



They are themselves confused so are their claims.

They don’t know where to hide now.

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## Path-Finder

Waqar Rashid said:


> Here is a bit extended version in which army and locals can be seen going after the second pilot. Some native speakers can shed some more lights on conversations near the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=616442438802705


more than Pakistan this has Lifted Kashmiri spirits, he fired with his gun, and they say that the other pilot landed at the location pointed out by them. Some are saying tell the army and take them there.

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## sohail.ishaque

siegecrossbow said:


> In case anyone is wondering, the blurb says "Why are you laughing, you are a Mig-21 too!"


I wonder what the SU30MKI pilots would had said.


----------



## siegecrossbow

sohail.ishaque said:


> I wonder what the SU30MKI pilots would had said.



"Why are you laughing. You are using Russian engine too!"

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## Pak-Canuck

First time they have said on a Pak news source now, Nauman Ali Khan shot down a SU-30, although they are using a wrong picture

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/4...-by-paf-pilot-nauman-ali-khan-details-surface


----------



## mshan44




----------



## ghazi52



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## NA71

In Gujrat -India Indian PM few minutes ago again said " Fikar na karo tum ko ghus kar marein gay" ...in english ' don't worry we will hit you inside your boarders'....

Why is that...he is not backing down.


----------



## sohail.ishaque

SrNair said:


> Yup.Right Sir.
> Being an experienced fighter pilot he already knows the limitation of Mig 21 and danger to be captured in enemy territory.
> 
> Yet he did what we all cant even imagine .Went inside Pak territory ,shot down their jet , clashed with the locals took a lot of hit then his straight forward denial mode without any fear .
> He is a true soldier .
> He really trusted his Mig 21 .
> The training of IAF is such a way that they will establish a relationship between men and machine .
> Kudos to IAF .


Kudos to IAF who got their azzes handed to them in less then 24 hours. Not only that brought the morale of whole of the India to absolute 0. Kidos to the IAF pilots who after getting raped is labelled as Heros

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## NA71

Hey hey hey, reports are surfacing another SU-30 shot down....in Bhambir sector

fake or not i dont know

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## mshan44



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## sohail.ishaque

member.exe said:


> Which country could the unnamed country be?


IRAN


----------



## Syed1.

nahmed71 said:


> Hey hey hey, reports are surfacing another SU-30 shot down....in Bhambir sector
> 
> fake or not i dont know


Can somebody confirm or deny this????


----------



## atya

Syed1. said:


> Can somebody confirm or deny this????


Haven't heard anything official.


----------



## Shahin Iqbal

nahmed71 said:


> Hey hey hey, reports are surfacing another SU-30 shot down....in Bhambir sector
> 
> fake or not i dont know


Looks fake to me...... How can he possibly know if it's Su30 or that it's an Indian plane.

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## Ali_Baba

sohail.ishaque said:


> IRAN



The fact that a country like Iran could think of attacking Pakistan, even with the help of others, shows you how PAF's policy(until now i guess) of "turning the other cheek" and letting transgressions go un-answered it self invites dangers.

The Iranians will be warned off now. There is no way they can trade punches with PAF, and their regime is far less likely to be able to absorb the impact of PAF strikets, than the Indians can ....

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## Vortex

Ali_Baba said:


> The fact that a country like Iran could think of attacking Pakistan, even with the help of others, shows you how PAF's policy(until now i guess) of "turning the other cheek" and letting transgressions go un-answered it self invites dangers.
> 
> The Iranians will be warned off now. There is no way they can trade punches with PAF, and their regime is far less likely to be able to absorb the impact of PAF strikets, than the Indians can ....




An off topic question : why Iran want panga with us ?

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## FuriousGreen

Vortex said:


> An off topic question : why Iran want panga with us ?



Think it maybe a sectarian thing plus the SA/Pak link but I am just guessing. I know Iran and Pak have had the occasional border issues before however I doubt Iran would ever plan anything against Pak in conjunction with India who is in bed with Israel who is a sworn enemy of Iran..

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## ghazi52



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## Pakhtoon yum

ghazi52 said:


>


Is that the Irish flag?

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## Shabi1

Af


sohail.ishaque said:


> IRAN


Afghanistan for sure rather than Iran.


----------



## krash

siegecrossbow said:


> In case anyone is wondering, the blurb says "Why are you laughing, you are a Mig-21 too!"



What is the Pakistani pilot being denoted as? The Indian pilot is being denoted by an elephant and the bald eagle is the US, which both make sense.



Pakhtoon yum said:


> Is that the Irish flag?



Indian markings.

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## IHK_PK

Sheikh Rashid is going to Iran taking a letter oh IK to the Iranian premier. 

Might be a stern wronning, demanding an explanation in its possible involvement with the indo-iran-israil nexus against Pakistan.


Shabi1 said:


> Af
> 
> Afghanistan for sure rather than Iran.

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## Pakhtoon yum

krash said:


> What is the Pakistani pilot being denoted as? The Indian pilot is being denoted by an elephant and the bald eagle is the US, which both make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Indian markings.


Why do they use that? Why not their flag?


----------



## Amigator

انی دیا مزاق اے؟


----------



## WAQAS119



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## krash

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Why do they use that? Why not their flag?



The British modelled it after their own markings when they formed the Royal Indian Air Force. They just changed the blue, white and red of the Union Jack to the safron, white and green of the then British Indian Flag. After independence the Indian Air Force kept on with it.

British Spitfire,






Royal Indian Spitfire,






British Hawker Hurricane,







Royal Indian Hawker Hurricane,






There's nothing wrong with it though. The tail markings don't necessarily need to be your flag or a flag at all. For example,


Croatia just has its coat of arms






Poland,






Greece,






USAF has codes which denote the unit the aircraft belongs to,





http://www.military.cz/usa/air/air_accessories/usaf_tail_cod/usaf_tail_cod.htm


Even the PAF didn't have the complete flag for a very long time,

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## SQ8

Deino said:


> Nope ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102275309309739014


Airmarshal is now long in his tooth and kept a little out of the loop as well.

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## Sabretooth

krash said:


>



Look at this beauty! utterly wasted in the hands of Indiots.

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## krash

Sabretooth said:


> Look at this beauty! utterly wasted in the hands of Indiots.



I disagree. Looks better mounted on a wall.

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## Sabretooth

krash said:


> I disagree. Looks better mounted on a wall.



Or PAF museum for that matter D

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## Pakhtoon yum

krash said:


> The British modelled it after their own markings when they formed the Royal Indian Air Force. They just changed the blue, white and red of the Union Jack to the safron, white and green of the then British Indian Flag. After independence the Indian Air Force kept on with it.
> 
> British Spitfire,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Indian Spitfire,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British Hawker Hurricane,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Indian Hawker Hurricane,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with it though. The tail markings don't necessarily need to be your flag or a flag at all. For example,
> 
> 
> Croatia just has its coat of arms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greece,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USAF has codes which denote the unit the aircraft belongs to,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.military.cz/usa/air/air_accessories/usaf_tail_cod/usaf_tail_cod.htm
> 
> 
> Even the PAF didn't have the complete flag for a very long time,


Thanks
Wouldnt it be different if PAF used the Shaheen? Just a black image of it.

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## mshan44

read this on indian defence forum


----------



## Ali0625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102804930274967552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102808971759550464


----------



## Amigator

What will happen with the scrap collected of Downed Mig 21? Can Pakistan Air Force Engineer extract radar from nose cone and do some research on it? @Oscar @Windjammer @Bilal Khan 777


----------



## Sabretooth

Ali0625 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102804930274967552
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102808971759550464




I usually take Mr Hamid's revelations with a pinch of salt but this possibility has me pondering since the beginning and have mentioned it twice on the forum.

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## Zee-shaun



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## undercover JIX

mshan44 said:


> read this on indian defence forum
> 
> View attachment 544359


Air wOrrier.....shabash India

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## SQ8

Amigator said:


> What will happen with the scrap collected of Downed Mig 21? Can Pakistan Air Force Engineer extract radar from nose cone and do some research on it? @Oscar @Windjammer @Bilal Khan 777


Nothing, that scrap is mostly useless to us.


----------



## crankthatskunk

AsianUnion said:


> PAF went out to do a mission and they made it sure it strikes and strikes hard, damaging the enemy, and fully completed the mission, that's what I love about it, *the Killer Instinct*!!!



What they strike hard!! As much as I know, they locked the targets, including the Brigade headquarters where their army chief was having meetings and then strike open areas near the targets. 
Do you have knowledge that PAF strike any actual targets!!Or you are referring to the message given through locking the targets!

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## JSCh

Asia Times | No proof India shot down Pakistan F-16 | Article

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## crankthatskunk

ARMalik said:


> Very murky at this stage. Some members were pointing fingers at US and others at Russia.



Russia is out of question. They wouldn't get involved, not where the Americans are. It is a toss between USA and Iran. I am also of the opinion it cannot be Iran. They already facing enough problems on other fronts. Plus in what sense they can help India!! The are facing huge problems for their own fighter jets etc.etc. 
It is USA with its tacit approval and probably some kind of other technical or intel support.


----------



## Secret Service

Sabretooth said:


> I usually take Mr Hamid's revelations with a pinch of salt but this possibility has me pondering since the beginning and have mentioned it twice on the forum.
> 
> View attachment 544366


*
i dont believe this guy. Israelis are surely Not that bad as indian pilots.*


----------



## ARMalik

crankthatskunk said:


> Russia is out of question. They wouldn't get involved, not where the Americans are. It is a toss between USA and Iran. I am also of the opinion it cannot be Iran. They already facing enough problems on other fronts. Plus in what sense they can help India!! The are facing huge problems for their own fighter jets etc.etc.
> It is USA with its tacit approval and probably some kind of other technical or intel support.



I am hearing some interesting news. The news is that Russia via Turkey also provided intelligence to Pakistan about Iran and Israel. ISI knew something was up but there were some missing pieces and Russia helped to provide the missing links. This enabled the Pak military to lay a more effective trap, and the rest is history.

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## HRK

Vortex said:


> An off topic question : why Iran want panga with us ?


Dada mara ga tu wirast batey gi .....

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## Oruc

how about afghanistan?


----------



## Ahassan

i can be wrong just ... wondering .... why did sheikh Rasheed gone to tehran ?!

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/...ue-in-iran-to-deliver-message-from-imran-khan



member.exe said:


> Were they flying their own jets or were they piggybacking on the Indian jets?




Since Su30 carries two pilots ... one pilot the other one gunner (mission controller) ... so it might be just a possibility .... just assuming


----------



## siegecrossbow

krash said:


> What is the Pakistani pilot being denoted as? The Indian pilot is being denoted by an elephant and the bald eagle is the US, which both make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Indian markings.



A goat. In this series of cartoons China is a rabbit, Russia a bear, and America an eagle.

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## Ahassan

siegecrossbow said:


> A goat. In this series of cartoons China is a rabbit, Russia a bear, and America an eagle.



Lion may be .... !!! Markhor it is

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## crankthatskunk

crankthatskunk said:


> Russia is out of question. They wouldn't get involved, not where the Americans are. It is a toss between USA and Iran. I am also of the opinion it cannot be Iran. They already facing enough problems on other fronts. Plus in what sense they can help India!! The are facing huge problems for their own fighter jets etc.etc.
> It is USA with its tacit approval and probably some kind of other technical or intel support.



I have just received some update. It is revealed that Turkey informed Pakistan after receiving the tip from the Russians that India is about to strike Pakistan with Israel and Iran. Let see if it is confirmed officially.



ARMalik said:


> I am hearing some interesting news. The news is that Russia via Turkey also provided intelligence to Pakistan about Iran and Israel. ISI knew something was up but there were some missing pieces and Russia helped to provide the missing links. This enabled the Pak military to lay a more effective trap, and the rest is history.



I' just updated my response. Yes that's what I heard too. Everyone is watching the situation closely. Russians have their interests that Pakistan is not harmed.

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## untitled

crankthatskunk said:


> Russians have their interests that Pakistan is not harmed.


Their media outlets like Sputnik & RT are singing the same tune as the Indians are



crankthatskunk said:


> Israel and Iran


How did they end up on the same team?

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## Sugarcane

Sabretooth said:


> I usually take Mr Hamid's revelations with a pinch of salt but this possibility has me pondering since the beginning and have mentioned it twice on the forum.
> 
> View attachment 544366



He is just a conspiracy theorist, Even if we assume that reports of Isreal's involvement is true, still the role will be of adviser. They aren't that much idiots to get into Indian planes and start attacking Pakistan.

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## b4umsf

And now its in Sea


----------



## JF-17ThunderBlock3

Ahassan said:


> Lion may be .... !!! Markhor it is


GOAT "Greatest of All Time" Cheers

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## Sabretooth

Sugarcane said:


> He is just a conspiracy theorist, Even if we assume that reports of Isreal's involvement is true, still the role will be of adviser. They aren't that much idiots to get into Indian planes and start attacking Pakistan.



Actually, I was thinking along the lines of whole F-16 and AIM-120 drama. Now, who else operates F-16s among the arch enemies of Pakistan? We know the answer to that. But these are all what-ifs so I could be wrong. I even hope that I am wrong.

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## ahtan_china

long long ago in China military forum, it is said that the FC-1/JF-17 is able to carry USA missile

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## ghazi768

Sabretooth said:


> I usually take Mr Hamid's revelations with a pinch of salt but this possibility has me pondering since the beginning and have mentioned it twice on the forum.
> 
> View attachment 544366


And that Israeli pilot was flying a Su-30... this guy is a lunatic.. take his words with a pinch of salt. But I agree with him that chances of a serious escalation are still high.


----------



## SABRE

Sabretooth said:


> I usually take Mr Hamid's revelations with a pinch of salt but this possibility has me pondering since the beginning and have mentioned it twice on the forum.
> 
> View attachment 544366



Swallow the whole salt shaker. Israeli role must be limited to consultation only & how to employ Israeli made weapons effectively.


----------



## FuriousGreen

So even with Israeli advice, consultation,demos,knowledge transfer and training the shining example that is IAF manage to hit trees and a crow. Amazing.

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## SQ8

ghazi768 said:


> And that Israeli pilot was flying a Su-30... this guy is a lunatic.. take his words with a pinch of salt. But I agree with him that chances of a serious escalation are still high.


Customer support is in full swing which can be mistaken in the fog of war as military support.

They are however smarting to get a kill as it is un-Indian to be shown as lesser to Pakistan in anything.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102960793711267841

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## cleverrider



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## hassan zohaib

In his recent interview to Dunya news, DG ISPR said v shot 2 Indian Jets. Among pilots one was lost his life n second was released so my question is this dead pilot die in our custody?

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## HRK

hassan zohaib said:


> In his recent interview to Dunya news, DG ISPR said v shot 2 Indian Jets. Among pilots one was lost his life n second was released so my question is this dead pilot die in our custody?


post the link


----------



## Riz

hassan zohaib said:


> In his recent interview to Dunya news, DG ISPR said v shot 2 Indian Jets. Among pilots one was lost his life n second was released so my question is this dead pilot die in our custody?


He did not said one poilet died in hospital

But yes he said we shot downs two indian jets.. Nothing new


----------



## b4umsf

Riz said:


> He did not said one poilet died in hospital
> 
> But yes he said we shot downs two indian jets.. Nothing new


It is JF 17


----------



## alee92nawaz

ghazi768 said:


> And that Israeli pilot was flying a Su-30... this guy is a lunatic.. take his words with a pinch of salt. But I agree with him that chances of a serious escalation are still high.


He's a lunatic.


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102989497300594693

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## hassan zohaib

Riz said:


> He did not said one poilet died in hospital
> 
> But yes he said we shot downs two indian jets.. Nothing new


That's what i was trying to understand whether the dead pilot wasn't the one about whom DG said that v have 2 pilots in our custody n afterwards took his words back or not?


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102211715238936576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102775859524583429

Documentary on the brave pilot is ready!!!

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## b4umsf

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102211715238936576
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102775859524583429
> 
> Documentary on the brave pilot is ready!!!


We will never let them forget.


----------



## SQ8

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102211715238936576
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102775859524583429
> 
> Documentary on the brave pilot is ready!!!


Fictionalized media is a disease infecting that country and its repercussions could be devastating for regional peace.

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## Avicenna

Oscar said:


> Fictionalized media is a disease infecting that country and its repercussions could be devastating for regional peace.



You can see the effects of "fake news" in the US.

Especially amongst the contribution of formation of opinions of the public in general; most of whom are painfully ignorant.

The only difference is there is a huge buffer between thought and action in the US tempered by opposing viewpoints and law.

This buffer is markedly smaller in India.

Widespead violence at some point is much likelier.

This is a DANGEROUS phenomenon.

This past week has made me really concerned.

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## mshan44



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## Ahassan

seems like PAF also shot down IAF Mi17 ... !





*watch from 11:00*


if he is right .... another blow to IAF .....

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## ziaulislam




----------



## Ahassan

ziaulislam said:


>



would you believe a journalist??? or a retired 3 star AM shahid latif ...?


----------



## HRK

Ahassan said:


> would you believe a journalist??? or a retired 3 star AM shahid latif ...?


yesterday He himself claim that kill as Fratricide

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## Ahassan

HRK said:


> yesterday He himself claim that kill as Fratricide




yeah i was confused too ... but its was yesterday ... this is as of today ... if iam not wrong ... since he says that ... he has seen the video as well ...

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## krash

siegecrossbow said:


> A goat. In this series of cartoons China is a rabbit, Russia a bear, and America an eagle.



Ah, so a Markhor. Now that you've mentioned it, one can clearly see the corkscrew horns (Spiral horns). Makes sense, the Markhor is our national animal.




Pakhtoon yum said:


> View attachment 544355
> 
> Thanks
> Wouldnt it be different if PAF used the Shaheen? Just a black image of it.



I tend to prefer the Pakistani flag, it's our legacy. Besides, the Shaheen would interfere with the squadron tail art, IMO. It might be too much.

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## ziaulislam

Ahassan said:


> yeah i was confused too ... but its was yesterday ... this is as of today ... if iam not wrong ... since he says that ... he has seen the video as well ...


One thing is for sure its likley either Pakistani kill or friendly fire..i doubt a chopper will blow up in the sky exactly the same time for no reason

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## Jag

Well I would just wait for another 6 months somebody will speak out the truth. Be rest assure, it has always happened.


----------



## Ultima Thule

monitor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102162309345095681


No clearly its show 2 JF-17 were going to land after completing their mission @monitor 


josip said:


> Keep beliving in it. If you repeat again and again it will become truth.


You shows the wreckage AMRAAM that show you something was hit by AMRAAM either MKI or twin seat MIG-29 you accept it or not it doesn't change the reality @josip 


SrNair said:


> And we dont want to escalate it ,that is why only 8 jets confronted 24.


Good bedtime stories you have sir @SrNair

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## monitor

Surprise




. The smile on face of captured Indian WC Abhinandan Varthaman is priceless



I encountered couple of people today who are actually missing him. Wish he will pay a visit to Pakistan once things calm down, a Legal Visit from ground, not from Air

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## Falcon26

Remember what Modi said....” if we had Rafael, the results would have been different” India had 3 birds shot down and 4 brigade HQ sent warning bomb raids simply for IAF daring to cross the Pakistani border. Historic drubbing for India lol
*Focus on incidents that led to Mi-17 crash at Budgam*

“Eyewitness reported that a loud explosion was heard in the air before the chopper crashed in a trail of smoke, indicating a possible catastrophic external event contributed to the incident. *The crash — the chopper was airborne at 10 am and crashed at 10:10 am — coincided with the time IAF jets were scrambled to intercept PAF fighters approaching the border.
*
IAF’s Su30MKIs, Mirage 2000s and MiG21s had moved into the Nowshera sector and reportedly felled a Pak F16 even as groundbased defence systems were operational. The systems, mostly operated by IAF, are designed for quick reaction takedown of incoming aircraft and have inbuilt safeguards for IFF (identification, friend or foe) to look through the fog of war. *A friendly fire incident would mean breach in multiple layers of safeguards”

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...mi17-crash-at-budgam/articleshow/68279700.cms*

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## Senang Diri

Amazing. 

Congrats to PAF for punching well above its weight. It again goes to show quantity alone may not lead to a victory against a better trained, better motivated or better equipped adversary. 

And unlike turkish air force, that scrambled for protection from Uncle Sam after shooting down a Russian fighter jet, Pakistan stood tall without seeking protection from a "big brother". 

Makes it all the more impressive.

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## The Accountant

Senang Diri said:


> Amazing.
> 
> Congrats to PAF for punching well above its weight. It again goes to show quantity alone may not lead to a victory against a better trained, better motivated or better equipped adversary.
> 
> And unlike turkish air force, that scrambled for protection from Uncle Sam after shooting down a Russian fighter jet, Pakistan stood tall without seeking protection from a "big brother".
> 
> Makes it all the more impressive.


There is a hell of difference between india and russia ..

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103400635238662147


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## Pied Piper

Salaam!
very interesting explanation given!

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## aziqbal

IAF got its tactics and stratedgy wrong 

But also simply put they also got owned by the better pilots 

Sukhoi is not a joke and it was blown out of the sky

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## Kompromat

Someone needs to put a tape on his mouth. He gives out too much in an attempt to look sharp on TV. Im grateful for his service but he's becoming a loose cannon.

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## monitor

Pied Piper said:


> Salaam!
> very interesting explanation given!



Give us a summery what he said.

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## Trango Towers

Israeli advisor....bitch slapped


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## Ahmet Pasha

Meh. He didn't really give too much away.


Horus said:


> Someone needs to put a tape on his mouth. He gives out too much in an attempt to look sharp on TV. Im grateful for his service but he's becoming a loose cannon.

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## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103536892652515328

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## Abu Zarrar

@Horus Check this 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103552031564988416


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## I S I

Abu Zarrar said:


> @Horus Check this
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103552031564988416








@Retired Troll @Mentee

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## Sabretooth

Rashid Mahmood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103536892652515328





CriticalThought said:


> That's some serious Thunder Complex right there. It looks like they have some serious Thunder issues.



This has me pondering too since the beginning but who could verify this? 
Thread on this topic was even locked by the Mods.


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103237908826386432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103219464139497472

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## The Accountant

Rashid Mahmood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103536892652515328


Chances of this being true are remote ... I don't think that Israeli's are that stupid ... Secondly, it was a hot scramble so why would an Israeli be involved ...

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## NA71

After over a week IAF has carefully crafted proofs which have now been given to Indian Govt for new episodes of Media WAR. ISPR is also desperate to release its version of video clips which will cover ground targets as well SU30 downing.

Another debate has started ...if for some reasons, it is assumed that Pak captured Israeli Pilot ...which jetfighter he was operating? MiG21/SU30 both out of question. The theory suggests he was flying a F-16 in Pak colours which got hit by either WC Abhi ...later Indian media revealed as IAF also shot F-16 or by our own PAF recognizing it as a foe. We captured the pilot but the wreckage found in IOK...which was put under the er heavy cover. The AIM120c missile was also part from that F-16.

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## Kompromat

Because you're not trained to mine information. 



Ahmet Pasha said:


> Meh. He didn't really give too much away.

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## Sabretooth

nahmed71 said:


> The theory suggests he was flying a F-16 in Pak colours which got hit by either WC Abhi



I have been asking myself and on this forum the same question. But for now, the conclusiveness is in question.

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## Slides

The PAF needs to man up and give us some proof or they will lose the narrative.


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## Slides

Not enough proof tbh.


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## litman

Abu Zarrar said:


> @Horus Check this
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103552031564988416


what exactly israeli pilot was doing in indian sukhoi. israelis use US tech. they dont have much experience with russian tech so why they put an israeli pilot in russian air craft. i dont think there is much truth in this news.

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## Sabretooth

nahmed71 said:


> I think we are gradually moving towards that moment ... Hilali sb sudden revelations mean a lot ...indian failure to show the F-16 wreckage, backdoor pressure to hand over the other captured pilot ...will ultimately unfold the mystery. Pakistan may be asking WEST to acknowledge that we have captured Israeli Pilot who was involved in that mission.



I hope it is true. It would mean that we have got them by the balls.

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## The Accountant

Sabretooth said:


> I hope it is true. It would mean that we have got them by the balls.


To good to be true ... this might be a propaganda war ...

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## messiach

Lots of ifs here.



Rashid Mahmood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103536892652515328


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## NA71

The Accountant said:


> To good to be true ... this might be a propaganda war ...




Also, please re-arrange the sequence of events:

1. IAF 2nd intrusion with suspected F-16 .... PAF intercepts them with two bogies got hit. One was immediately identified as the 3rd party.
2. PAF counter-attack on Brig. HQ with shock & awe (PAF pilot Hassan's audio) confirms heavy damages on the ground. 
3. Intense diplomatic pressure to release Indian Pilot and hide the details of other jet & its pilot.
4. Threats intl. of Indian missile attack on Karachi with assistance from Israel( as part of Pressure) to release Israeli pilot from the backdoor channel.

5. PM IK statement with ref to Tipu Sultan and threat of joint missile attack on Pakistan....with announcement of abhi's release.
6. Satellite images release to CENTCOM showing possible Shaheen-III launch. Also, the message was conveyed through Turkey that we got your man.
7. UK/USA looking it closely..jump in for God damn de-escalation.
8. Intense bargain going on for a release of the remaining pilot.

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## Slides

nahmed71 said:


> Also, please re-arrange the sequence of events:
> 
> 1. IAF 2nd intrusion with suspected F-16 .... PAF intercepts them with two bogies got hit. One was immediately identified as the 3rd party.
> 2. PAF counter-attack on Brig. HQ with shock & awe (PAF pilot Hassan's audio) confirms heavy damages on the ground.
> 3. Intense diplomatic pressure to release Indian Pilot and hide the details of other jet & its pilot.
> 4. Threats intl. of Indian missile attack on Karachi with assistance from Israel( as part of Pressure) to release Israeli pilot from the backdoor channel.
> 
> 5. PM IK statement with ref to Tipu Sultan and threat of joint missile attack on Pakistan....with announcement of abhi's release.
> 6. Satellite images release to CENTCOM showing possible Shaheen-III launch. Also, the message was conveyed through Turkey that we got your man.
> 7. UK/USA looking it closely..jump in for God damn de-escalation.
> 8. Intense bargain going on for a release of the remaining pilot.



Most of this is hogwash.


----------



## Cornered Tiger

The prime question in regards to Israeli theory. Why India took 10+ days to do strikes in Balakot?

Too many dignitaries and diplomats visiting Pakistan, something big happening back doors.

3 Pilots landed near border or in Pakistan. But the debris of Su-30 MKI fell 80Km across from LOC in Badgam, near Srinagar. How?

Many more plenty questions, all leading to Israeli script


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## NA71

Slides said:


> Most of this is hogwash.



Yes, it is apparently... lots of activities are happening behind the scene. The media is being fed through ACM shahid Latif, Hilali, others. Like we were told through AAJ News/Geo that PAF is about to release Feb 27 clips ...but it is still on hold. From Last evening we are reading Israeli Involvement from all around. No reaction from Israeli Govt. or media!

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## Ahmet Pasha

Zafar Hilaly 
I've heard him speak on other occasions. Barely credible.


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## Bossman

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Zafar Hilaly
> I've heard him speak on other occasions. Barely credible.


Ex Ambassador. Very well connected


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## Ahmet Pasha

Sometimes such well connected people say such things to gain relevance.


Bossman said:


> Ex Ambassador. Very well connected

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## NA71

Bossman said:


> Ex Ambassador. Very well connected


please consider...these are not just abrupt revelations......it is actually deliberate dissemination of information

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## denel

The Accountant said:


> Chances of this being true are remote ... I don't think that Israeli's are that stupid ... Secondly, it was a hot scramble so why would an Israeli be involved ...


correct. just overhyped liked an indian turd media... this is another wild flung conspiracies being evolved out of nowhere. i am amazed at the rubbish being spewed with no rationale.

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## Rafi

denel said:


> correct. just overhyped liked an indian turd media... this is another wild flung conspiracies being evolved out of nowhere. i am amazed at the rubbish being spewed with no rationale.



Fog of war, and 24/7 news media with their dicks in their hands, wanking for the next "scoop" bane of the modern world.

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## YeBeWarned

messiach said:


> Lots of ifs here.



Did Israel ever used M2k's ?


----------



## SQ8

denel said:


> correct. just overhyped liked an indian turd media... this is another wild flung conspiracies being evolved out of nowhere. i am amazed at the rubbish being spewed with no rationale.


 Customer support at airfield likely mistaken for actual military personnel. It is like LM reps being on the ground at PAF Shahbaz being mistaken for USAF personnel on the ground.

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## monitor

It's official now. *Two Indian planes were shot down by Pakistan Air Force on February 27*,” Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told parliament Wednesday. He named them as Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui and Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan



Starlord said:


> Did Israel ever used M2k's ?



No logic of Israeli Pilot in MKI Israel never operated russian plane

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## denel

Starlord said:


> Did Israel ever used M2k's ?


no


----------



## farhan_9909

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103237908826386432
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103219464139497472



Aim-120c5 has kill probability of 63-85% but still they are claiming 4-5 amraam missed the target

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## Trailer23

nahmed71 said:


> the other pilot died ...DG ISPR latest statement.... right? where is his body...or which country claimed or received the body? Where is the wreckage of other plane? it was said twice that the video will be shared with journalists. its been over 1 week now.


We've been talking about this day-in & day-out atleast 10 times a day.

If that news has to come out, it will. I doubt the DG ISPR is sitting on defence.pk & get pressured into releasing that footage.

In regard to the day which led to events of 27th Feb., and when the DG ISPR spoke on the matter. His statement could have raised some eyebrows in the Foreign Community and 'requested' the PAK Army to not releasing any evidence.


----------



## monitor

INDIA :-

7 mins ·





World Defence Forum
7 hrs ·
INDIA :-

India’s First F-16 Slayer: IAF Officially Credits Wing Commander Abhinandan For Downing Pakistani Jet...

The Indian Air Force on Wednesday (6 March) officially attributed the F-16 kill to Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, journalist Shiv Aroor reported. As per Aroor, the Wing Commander was the only IAF pilot in a group of eight who fired a R-73 missile against the aggressing Pakistani jets.

Incidentally, this news is a confirmation of earlier reports which stated that Wing Commander Abhinandan before ejecting from his MiG 21″ Bison” fighter jet over his radio transmission said “R-73” selected. He was believed to have let loose the Vympel R-73 air-to-air missile at the Pakistani F-16 fighter jet, which has now been confirmed.

Vathaman was reportedly among the six MiG-21s pilots who scrambled from Srinagar, along with Sukhoi 30MKIs, Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s being deployed to respond to the Pakistani fighters. “We knew that they (Pakistan) would react after our Balakot strikes, but did not expect them to retaliate so soon,” an officer was quoted as saying. The entire high altitude dogfight reportedly went on for for 15 minutes.

“The R-73 is better in such a melee. This is probably the first time MiG-21 has shot down an American F-16 anywhere in the world,” another officer said. IAF fighters managed to thwart the attempt by Pakistani fighters to target Indian installations via laser-guided bombs.


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## niaz

Whether my compatriots or fellow Indian members like it or not; most of the info handed out to the media at the briefings was full of lies. No one really knows what really happened. Only undeniable evidence we have is that PAF shot down one Indian Mig-21 and the pilot was captured.

In addition to the Pakistan & Indian News channels, I also watch international media. It is not that international media tells the truth, only that information available there is less likely to be heavily biased toward either India or Pakistan. About the current events here is the link one unbiased source (?)

Everyone is, however, free to believe what he/she will. 

Quote

*The India-Pakistan Conflict Was a Parade of Lies*

March 6, 2019

Unquote

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/...h_190307&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=596850410307


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## Ahmet Pasha

They do have kfirs which are Mirage derivatives.


denel said:


> no

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## denel

Ahmet Pasha said:


> They do have kfirs which are Mirage derivatives.


Kfir is based off M3/M5. M2K is completely different

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## messiach

They have extensive experience with mirages incld 2000. They virtually own Dassault Av.


Starlord said:


> Did Israel ever used M2k's ?



DRAMAY.



monitor said:


> INDIA :-
> 
> 7 mins ·
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Defence Forum
> 7 hrs ·
> INDIA :-
> 
> India’s First F-16 Slayer: IAF Officially Credits Wing Commander Abhinandan For Downing Pakistani Jet...
> 
> The Indian Air Force on Wednesday (6 March) officially attributed the F-16 kill to Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, journalist Shiv Aroor reported. As per Aroor, the Wing Commander was the only IAF pilot in a group of eight who fired a R-73 missile against the aggressing Pakistani jets.
> 
> Incidentally, this news is a confirmation of earlier reports which stated that Wing Commander Abhinandan before ejecting from his MiG 21″ Bison” fighter jet over his radio transmission said “R-73” selected. He was believed to have let loose the Vympel R-73 air-to-air missile at the Pakistani F-16 fighter jet, which has now been confirmed.
> 
> Vathaman was reportedly among the six MiG-21s pilots who scrambled from Srinagar, along with Sukhoi 30MKIs, Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s being deployed to respond to the Pakistani fighters. “We knew that they (Pakistan) would react after our Balakot strikes, but did not expect them to retaliate so soon,” an officer was quoted as saying. The entire high altitude dogfight reportedly went on for for 15 minutes.
> 
> “The R-73 is better in such a melee. This is probably the first time MiG-21 has shot down an American F-16 anywhere in the world,” another officer said. IAF fighters managed to thwart the attempt by Pakistani fighters to target Indian installations via laser-guided bombs.

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## YeBeWarned

messiach said:


> They have extensive experience with mirages incld 2000. They virtually own Dassault Av.
> 
> 
> DRAMAY.



so technically if Israeli Pilots have one fighter in IAF they would fly it would be Mirage 2000 .. but i still think that both pilots are Indian and some people just far fetched the idea of Israeli intelligence sharing .


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## Ahassan

i think there is no Israeli pilot .... but just for the sake of info .... Su30 is a dual seater plane ... one for pilot and the other is for weapon officer ... so it is possible that he was occupying second seat ... but i still believe there is no Israeli pilot in our custody.


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## Awan68

intel about Israel was solid, i have never before seen that country so openly mentioned by all sectors of our media Industry. They are not cooking things up, they are directly referring the info to the GOP. Indian soil used by a third country openly seems unprobable. Now let loose ur imagination a little, where in the nieghbourhood can a third country launch an attack from.............Afghanistan.

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## messiach

Anywhere there are mirages, there are 'susraelis'. There is strong possibility of hostilities in future or near-future. The keyword is 'remain vigilant for anything'.



Starlord said:


> so technically if Israeli Pilots have one fighter in IAF they would fly it would be Mirage 2000 .. but i still think that both pilots are Indian and some people just far fetched the idea of Israeli intelligence sharing .

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## Avicenna

Awan68 said:


> intel about Israel was solid, i have never before seen that country so openly mentioned by all sectors of our media Industry. They are not cooking things up, they are directly referring the info to the GOP. Indian soil used by a third country openly seems unprobable. Now let loose ur imagination a little, where in the nieghbourhood can a third country launch an attack from.............Afghanistan.



Whether some Pakistanis acknowlege it or not.

Israel is not an open enemy.

But don't think for a second that Israel doesn't think about you.

Israelis think 3 steps ahead.

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## YeBeWarned

messiach said:


> Anywhere there are mirages, there are 'susraelis'. There is strong possibility of hostilities in future or near-future. The keyword is 'remain vigilant for anything'.



I love how you mixed susral and Israeli  but yes i agree , we have to remain vigilant .

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## GumNaam

Avicenna said:


> Whether some Pakistanis acknowlege it or not.
> 
> Israel is not an open enemy.
> 
> But don't think for a second that Israel doesn't think about you.


key words...not an "open" enemy. mean, it IS an enemy none the less...just not an open one.


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## Avicenna

GumNaam said:


> key words...not an "open" enemy. mean, it IS an enemy none the less...just not an open one.



As @messiach stated.

It's prudent to remain vigilant for ANYTHING.

Never underestimate the audacity of the Israelis.

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## HannibalBarca

Avicenna said:


> As @messiach stated.
> 
> It's prudent to remain vigilant for ANYTHING.
> 
> Never underestimate the audacity of the Israelis.



Overestimating your Enemy is as Bad as underestimating him...
The Rex among them crashed (most of the time) because of literally rookie moves/behavior...

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## CriticalThought

I find it strange that the name of second pilot who downed an Indian aircraft was witheld initially. DG ISPR would not lose his credibility by giving information that is verifiably incorrect. The second aircraft fell into Indian territory, and just as international media has comprehensively debunked the surgical strike, it would debunk the claim which is now repeated by DG ISPR, PM, and Foreign Minister. Pakistan as a nation is now invested in this claim and we will lose credibility if it turns out to be false.

We do have the statement of the PM in his address where he said 'The Migs came, we shot down two'. This statement has not been retracted. Taken at face value, the second MIG could have been either Mig-21 or Mig-29. The 29 also fits with twin engine theory and three pilots.

Then again, the PM is not exactly known for his defence knowledge. He may have misinterpreted Migs and nobody corrected the statement. I just want to know, what the reticence with second pilot is really about:

1. Not being able to identify the pilot who took the kill.
2. Not being able to identify the plane shot down.
3. International pressure to hide identity of second plane.
4. International pressure to hide identity of pilot shot down.

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## GumNaam

Avicenna said:


> As @messiach stated.
> 
> It's prudent to remain vigilant for ANYTHING.
> 
> Never underestimate the audacity of the Israelis.


well said, couldn't have said it better myself...


----------



## Avicenna

CriticalThought said:


> I find it strange that the name of second pilot who downed an Indian aircraft was witheld initially. DG ISPR would not lose his credibility by giving information that is verifiably incorrect. The second aircraft fell into Indian territory, and just as international media has comprehensively debunked the surgical strike, it would debunk the claim which is now repeated by DG ISPR, PM, and Foreign Minister. Pakistan as a nation is now invested in this claim and we will lose credibility if it turns out to be false.
> 
> We do have the statement of the PM in his address where he said 'The Migs came, we shot down two'. This statement has not been retracted. Taken at face value, the second MIG could have been either Mig-21 or Mig-29. The 29 also fits with twin engine theory and three pilots.
> 
> Then again, the PM is not exactly known for his defence knowledge. He may have misinterpreted Migs and nobody corrected the statement. I just want to know, what the reticence with second pilot is really about:
> 
> 1. Not being able to identify the pilot who took the kill.
> 2. Not being able to identify the plane shot down.
> 3. International pressure to hide identity of second plane.
> 4. International pressure to hide identity of pilot shot down.



I don't think IK's statement in reference to the two "Migs" refer to any specific types.

He may have just as well said the two bandits came and 2 were shot down.

None of us really know anything of course.

But I agree the secrecy is intriguing.


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## Tps43

messiach said:


> Anywhere there are mirages, there are 'susraelis'. There is strong possibility of hostilities in future or near-future. The keyword is 'remain vigilant for anything'.


Next 4-5 days are really important btw today we saw some development but they are definitely avoiding at the moment

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Tps43 said:


> Next 4-5 days are really important btw today we saw some development but they are definitely avoiding at the moment


how do you mean? What's happening in 4-5 days?


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## Tps43

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> how do you mean? What's happening in 4-5 days?


On 13 march 90% of pm powers will be transferred to election commission of India a

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## Awan68

Avicenna said:


> Whether some Pakistanis acknowlege it or not.
> 
> Israel is not an open enemy.
> 
> But don't think for a second that Israel doesn't think about you.
> 
> Israelis think 3 steps ahead.


Its not about India vs Pak, its never been about Indo Pak, its always been about Isra


Avicenna said:


> Whether some Pakistanis acknowlege it or not.
> 
> Israel is not an open enemy.
> 
> But don't think for a second that Israel doesn't think about you.
> 
> Israelis think 3 steps ahead.


Its not an open enemy, it *THE *enemy..........of course they think about us, all they do is think about us, we are the only ones who they see as a hurdle in realising their Akhand Bharat version of the MiddleEast........... guess what, we think about them too n we too know how to plan several steps ahead.....

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## GumNaam

Tps43 said:


> On 13 march 90% of pm powers will be transferred to election commission of India a


modi's chamchaas are sitting in india's election commission. Pakistan needs to remain on ultra high alert.

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Tps43 said:


> On 13 march 90% of pm powers will be transferred to election commission of India a


#doublekhassi

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## syed_yusuf

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> #doulbekhassi



cant stop laughing ...

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## Rogue1

syed_yusuf said:


> cant stop laughing ...


446pages and over a week later the title still says breaking... Sort it out please

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## MIG21DOWN

Avicenna said:


> Whether some Pakistanis acknowlege it or not.
> 
> Israel is not an open enemy.
> 
> But don't think for a second that Israel doesn't think about you.
> 
> Israelis think 3 steps ahead.


Israel can think all they want and can be 10 steps ahead and it wont matter. Why?

*"And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners." Quran 3:54*

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## pzfz

you guys sound like whackjobs with this israeli angle. hilaly is getting old and senile. he wouldn't know jack.

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## CriticalThought

pzfz said:


> you guys sound like whackjobs with this israeli angle. hilaly is getting old and senile. he wouldn't know jack.



No harm in analyzing from various aspects when something is definitely on the media. We didn't pull it out of a rabbit hat. Official sources talk about Israeli help with missile attack. So we need to look into this.


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## Winchester

WhatsApp forwarded messages making it to the national media. Plenty of retired "uncles" having nothing to do except peddle these ridiculous claims on Whatsapp. 

Meanwhile in the "auntie" WhatsApp world, Abhinandan accepted Islam after being impressed with the attitude of our army.

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## The Accountant

Lolz ... rightly said


Winchester said:


> WhatsApp forwarded messages making it to the national media. Plenty of retired "uncles" having nothing to do except peddle these ridiculous claims on Whatsapp.
> 
> Meanwhile in the "auntie" WhatsApp world, Abhinandan accepted Islam after being impressed with the attitude of our army.


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## SorryNotSorry

Why would an Israeli pilot be needed? Why?
That too for an apparent air interception mission?
Some of the Pakistani members are making no sense.


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## NA71

I just finish it here. ...wait for more surprises. Let the de-escalation level touches the peacetime level.


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## The Accountant

nahmed71 said:


> Govt. of Pak openly named Israel, not on the basis of Intl they got regarding joint Indo Israel Missile strike threats but because they have solid proof, a piece of physical evidence in hand which compelled them to openly announce Israel as the collaborator. Now what might be that evidence? think.



And how the hell u know that ... kindly stop behaving like indians ... maintain the difference ... look how they got humiliated due to false reporing of india an public believing false propaganda ...

There is no israeli pilot

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## NA71

The Accountant said:


> And how the hell u know that ... kindly stop behaving like indians ... maintain the difference ... look how they got humiliated due to false reporing of india an public believing false propaganda ...
> 
> There is no israeli pilot


 Deleted all my recent posts to maintain that difference. If it will be proved in coming days, I hope you will also delete yours.


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## Tps43

Winchester said:


> WhatsApp forwarded messages making it to the national media. Plenty of retired "uncles" having nothing to do except peddle these ridiculous claims on Whatsapp.
> 
> Meanwhile in the "auntie" WhatsApp world, Abhinandan accepted Islam after being impressed with the attitude of our army.


Hahahahah

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Rogue1 said:


> 446pages and over a week later the title still says breaking... Sort it out please


because 56inch is still futting


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## The Accountant

nahmed71 said:


> Deleted all my recent posts to maintain that difference. If it will be proved in coming days, I hope you will also delete yours.


Sure i will and i will appologize to you as well ...


----------



## NA71

The Accountant said:


> Sure i will and i will appologize to you as well ...


You are THE MAN. bro.


----------



## AsianLion

*No proof India shot down Pakistan F-16*

*Rumors that the son of a Pakistani Air Marshal was shot down in his F-16 were untrue*

The clash between India and Pakistan involving their respective air forces last week has led to claims and counter-claims from the two South Asian rivals. While India claimed its air force entered Pakistan air space in the early hours of February 26, Pakistan claimed a similar air attack on Indian positions a day later.

However, one claim from India has taken a bizarre turn. In response to the Pakistan air raid in the morning on February 27, Indian fighter jets gave chase as part of the air defense measures. While the Pakistan jets turned back in a matter of seconds, an Indian MiG-21 gave chase and crossed into Pakistan’s air space. It was brought down by Pakistan’s air defense surface-to-air missiles and the pilot was captured.

However, Indian Air Force (IAF) officials were quick to claim that before being shot down, Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman managed to shoot down a Pakistani F-16. The IAF also put out a series of tweets claiming that an F-16 had been shot down.

*Did India down an F-16?*
However, by March 1, rumors started flying that Abhinandan had shot down a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) pilot named Shahaz-ud-Din, who was from 19 Squadron, also known as the_ sher-dils,_ or lion-hearted. On March 2, FirstPost, a well-known Indian news website, published a story written by consulting editor Praveen Swami, claiming: “The news that Shahaz-ud-Din’s plane was shot down was first reported by London-based lawyer Khalid Umar, who says he received it privately, from individuals related to the F-16 pilot’s family.”

Quoting Umar’s Facebook post, Swami also reported that the pilot had ejected “possibly in the Laam Valley” and had been mistaken for an Indian pilot by locals on the ground. They allegedly lynched him, and Swami wrote that “Shahaz-ud-Din, Umar has claimed, was hospitalized, but succumbed to his injuries.”

Swami also claimed that both the downed pilots, Varthaman and Shahaz-d-Din, were sons of Air Marshals in the IAF and PAF. “Shahaz-ud-Din’s father, Waseem-ud-Din, is also an Air Marshal of the Pakistan Air Force, who has flown F-16 and Mirages,” he wrote.

However, an investigation by Asia Times revealed that while Air Marshal Wasimuddin did serve in the PAF before retiring, he did not have a son named Shahaz-ud-Din.

*Non-existent pilot*
Air Marshal Wasimuddin has two sons, Aleem Uddin and Waqar Uddin. Waqar is studying in Warwickshire in the United Kingdom, while Aleem, who has studied at Royal Holloway, the University of London, works in the telecom sector.
“I have only two sons and neither of them has been a part of the PAF, nor has either ever flown a plane,” he said. “I have not considered any legal action [against the Indian media reports]. I actually laughed them off. My sons have been abroad for years. Unfortunately, they have been needlessly dragged into all this,” Wasimuddin said.






Air Marshal Wasimuddin (center) with his son Waqar (left) and Aseem. Photo: Courtesy Kunwar Khuldune Shahid/Asia Times​PAF officials confirmed that the retired air marshal had been asked to record a video as a rebuttal to claims in the India media. However, Wasimuddin said he wanted to avoid it because he did not want any undue attention on him or his family given the current crisis.

This raises a set of bigger questions.

If there is no “Wing Commander Shahaz-ud-Din” in the PAF, then who was piloting the F-16 that was allegedly shot down by the IAF? Or did the IAf really shoot down an F-16?

Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail is a former F-16 fighter pilot in the PAF and the author of _Great Air Battles of Pakistan Air Force,_ a seminal book on its wartime history. He believes the Indian claim has no merit.

“It is relatively easy to provide incontrovertible evidence for such a kill by the IAF,” Tufail told Asia Times in several text messages in response to queries. “The MiG-21 pilot should have been in touch with his fighter controller on the ground. Also, the other Indian fighter aircraft engaging the PAF fighter jets would have been monitoring the situation. They would have the data that can prove if an F-16 was shot down. Why isn’t India releasing that data?”

“The trace of the ground and airborne radar scope is always recorded, and usually, all radars preserve this for up to 72 hours, before being overwritten,” he said. “These traces can easily provide the incoming aircraft. And the sudden disappearance of the blip from the (radar) scope of this incoming aircraft will imply a ‘kill.’ There couldn’t be better evidence than this.”

“The IAF can (also) provide audio recording(s) of the interception in which the (MiG-21) pilot must have transmitted to his flight controller. There would be ‘radar contact,’ ‘visual contact,’ target shot down.’ These recordings should be available with the ground radar as well as the airborne radar that was flying that day,” he added.

*Indians lost face?*
Asia Times spoke to multiple IAF fighter pilots both serving and retired to ascertain their version of events. Most agreed with Air Commodore Tufail’s analysis of the sequence of events.

“It is true that the MiG-21 pilot would have had made some recordings of the air engagement, both audio and video,” a former IAF fighter pilot said on condition of anonymity. “Right from the 1970s, MiG-21s had cameras in the gun and missile pods. Any launch is recorded and if there are any ‘kills’ it should have been recorded. This should also be available in the on-board avionics. But the Pakistanis have it now,” he said.

“However, even a radio transmission, as well as data from the Airborne Early Warning (AEW) that had taken off when the first PAF fighters were detected, should have some data, including the loss of a radar blip, if the MiG-21 had shot it down. Even Wing Commander Abhinandan’s radio transmissions should be available and we can check them to see if he did report a ‘kill’ before going down,” the Indian fighter pilot said.

Some IAF officials privately feel the loss of the MiG-21 was a major “loss of face.” Even though Wing Commander Abhinandan “displayed high professional acumen and took on an F-16 in his MiG-21, the fact that we lost it was very embarrassing a day after we took out a Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terror camp deep inside Pakistan,” another senior IAF official told Asia Times.

A former IAF fighter pilot told Asia Times that unlike past analogous radars, the present Synthetic Display Radars (SDR) were incapable of distinguishing between aircraft. “The SDR would not be in a position to tell whether it was an F-16 or not. But the other data would have definitely recorded an F-16 ‘kill’ by the MiG-21.”

*Confusing statements*
What added to the confusion was Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Director General Major General Asif Ghafoor’s press conference on Wednesday, where he mentioned that Pakistan had captured two Indian pilots. One was Wing Commander Varthaman and the other was taken to the Combined Military Hospital (CMH) after being severely injured.

That claim came after Ghafoor’s initial tweet suggested there were actually three Indian pilots on the Pakistani side of the Line of Control. This was also reported by prime minister Imran Khan in his address to the National Assembly.

Much later Ghafoor said only one pilot was in Pakistani custody. PAF officials told Asia Times they were planning a display of all their fighter jets for neutral observers as evidence that none of their aircraft had been taken down by the IAF.

According to a Pakistani official, on condition of anonymity, F-16s had indeed been used to strike targets inside Indian territory. “I don’t know why [Asif Ghafoor] said that. Perhaps it would’ve been better if an air force person was dealing with the briefing. Even if somebody had asked him [about the F-16s] during the presser it would’ve been best to say something open-ended and not something as categorical as what he said,” the official said.

Analysts think one of the reasons behind Ghafoor’s statement could be to address concerns by the American State Department over the use of US-made F-16 fighter jets.

While Indian officials have showcased parts of an AMRAAM missile as evidence that Pakistan did use an American-made F-16, PAF officials say that part of the missile being discovered was ‘conclusive evidence’ that the Pakistan jets were not shot down.

“AMRAAM only goes with the F-16, but what the Indians don’t seem to realize is how the AMRAAM got there. There’s a reason why no debris of the jet has been recovered and only the remains of the missile have been found,” said Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail, a former PAF F-16 fighter pilot.

An Indian Airforce officer stated, “When a missile hits a jet it breaks down into small pieces just like the aircraft it targets – it doesn’t vaporize. If it doesn’t hit the target, its rocket fuel finishes in 20-25 seconds, and it just falls down on the ground intact. So the fact that an AMRAAM piece was recovered proves that the F-16 did strike a target.”

Meanwhile, locals on the ground reiterated that no Pakistani pilot bailed out along with Wing Commander Varthaman. “Only the Indian pilot landed here, and while the locals initially did try to physically harm him, he was protected by Pakistan Army officials. There was no Pakistani pilot who parachuted along with him, let alone being killed by a mob,” Fiaz Mahmood, a local businessman in the Bhimber district of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, told Asia Times.

The episode has raised several questions about India’s deteriorating military capabilities due its faulty procurement policies and lack of political will. Last year India’s Vice-Chief of Army Staff told Parliament’s standing committee on defense that the Narendra Modi government’s financial squeeze had left the forces bereft of funds.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/no-proof-india-shot-down-pakistan-f-16/

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## Zee-shaun

Very heavy shelling at LOC going on from both sides.
The heaviest artillery sofar is being used.


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## Malik Shani

Guys, new video confirms that there were two parachutes coming down. Here is the video:





__ https://www.facebook.com/





One is a bit near to the Pakistani side and the other one can be seen far away.

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## Jinn Baba

Malik Shani said:


> Guys, new video confirms that there were two parachutes coming down. Here is the video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One is a bit near to the Pakistani side and the other one can be seen far away.




That's definitely the clearest video, for once I can actually see the second parachute. But they are also talking about a third parachute and clearly saying three are Indian.


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## The Eagle

Malik Shani said:


> Guys, new video confirms that there were two parachutes coming down. Here is the video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One is a bit near to the Pakistani side and the other one can be seen far away.



Shared many times. The person said, one missile hits, it was blast and then they are coming down.

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## hellsingfan

Question is, is our parachute really green? The parachutes have a saffronish and whitish shade.

And definitely they are saying 3 pilots. 2 are in flight in this video and the third one came down already before them according to the person speaking in the video


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## Mrc

Jinn Baba said:


> That's definitely the clearest video, for once I can actually see the second parachute. But they are also talking about a third parachute and clearly saying three are Indian.




That goes with a 2 seater and a single seater going down


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## mshan44




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## Vortex

@mshan44 

A summary for people who are illiterate in Urdu please ? Many thanks


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## maverick1977

Malik Shani said:


> Guys, new video confirms that there were two parachutes coming down. Here is the video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One is a bit near to the Pakistani side and the other one can be seen far away.




Very interesting, if people have it then I am sure pakiatani airforce has some sort of video goo... what’s the deal for not sharing the details ?


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## hellsingfan

Just found this video, not sure if its for this incident or its an old video regarding another incident. What is clear is that the parachute is of saffron color. And the video above at least one of the parachutes (the one closer that appears big in the video) is also saffron so that one definitely is an Indian pilot. As for the other chute which is further away (and small) in the video in above post its hard to tell if its saffron as mostly you see a white shade.
Anyone want to somehow analyze to see if this is a recent video or someone uploading an older video now? Cuz this pilot is definitely not Abhi.

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## Dazzler

intact r-73, seems like Abhi never had the opportunity to fire it, caught by surprise perhaps?

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## Axis Of Logic

hellsingfan said:


> Just found this video, not sure if its for this incident or its an old video regarding another incident. What is clear is that the parachute is of saffron color. And the video above at least one of the parachutes (the one closer that appears big in the video) is also saffron so that one definitely is an Indian pilot. As for the other chute which is further away (and small) in the video in above post its hard to tell if its saffron as mostly you see a white shade.
> Anyone want to somehow analyze to see if this is a recent video or someone uploading an older video now? Cuz this pilot is definitely not Abhi.




This is from Rajasthan when Mig-21 crashed and pilot ejected safely.

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## MIG21DOWN

Ok so the parachute colors match the Indian airforce colors. Anyone know what color Pak parachutes are?


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## Mrc

MIG21DOWN said:


> Ok so the parachute colors match the Indian airforce colors. Anyone know what color Pak parachutes are?



Havent been shot down for a long while

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## CHACHA"G"

Vortex said:


> @mshan44
> 
> A summary for people who are illiterate in Urdu please ? Many thanks


Total 3 piolets came down , you can see 2 in the video , 1st one already down …… Jet exploded in air ……. One parachute is near them (maybe landed in AJ&k 2nd piolet "Israeli piolet") one is bit far (maybe landed in IOK ).. They also talked this is indian parachute and jet …….
So one is (almost) already landed , 2nd one getting ready to land (the one near in video), 3rd one far away …. lots of birds in air , missile hit , indian parachute (they discussing colour of parachute) ..
This conforms 2nd jet came down , 2 seater , 2 engine , we haven't lost any F-16s …….
Here come my theory , Abhi was flying SU-30 , 2nd piolet (israli or whoever he is) was flying mig-21 …….. 2nd piolet maybe died or maybe alive in our custody ,, we played extra smart and painted Abhi as Mig-21 Piolet , send him back and hold on to 2nd … ……. This even give more fuel to 2nd piolet is isreali

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## untitled

MIG21DOWN said:


> Ok so the parachute colors match the Indian airforce colors


Parachute colours have little to do with national colours

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## Myth_buster_1

here is a better footage of mig-21 wreckage

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## Shahin Iqbal

Another video, I think it's MiG21 falling down. 




It would be really nice to have all the videos from that day at one place........

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## AsianLion




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## Safriz

As indians have woven a web of lies we need to remind ourselves.





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## MM_Haider

Few days ago some member posted a video of DG ISPR's interview about India's second pilot in Pakistan declared as dead. Can someone give me the link to that thread? It is an urgent request, I am in discussion with some Indian troll.


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## The Eagle

MM_Haider said:


> Few days ago some member posted a video of DG ISPR's interview about India's second pilot in Pakistan declared as dead. Can someone give me the link to that thread? It is an urgent request, I am in discussion with some Indian troll.



You should have searched & gone through threads specifically available with particular title. Can we please discontinue posting of thread merely seeking an information which is available almost more than 3 threads in PAF Section on the Forum.


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## TsAr

MM_Haider said:


> Few days ago some member posted a video of DG ISPR's interview about India's second pilot in Pakistan declared as dead. Can someone give me the link to that thread? It is an urgent request, I am in discussion with some Indian troll.


search on google it was in duniya tv on kamran khan show

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## Eagle_Nest

Heard a big blast somewhere across kahuta.. may Allah protect avery one.

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## karakoram

Eagle_Nest said:


> Heard a big blast somewhere across kahuta.. may Allah protect avery one.


Allah khair kare ga

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## maverick1977

Eagle_Nest said:


> Heard a big blast somewhere across kahuta.. may Allah protect avery one.


 most likely sonic booms


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## AfrazulMandal

So IAF lost 5+2 aircraft?



maverick1977 said:


> most likely sonic booms


I think local villagers know the difference.

Probably a couple of more aircraft 'malfunctioned'.


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## b4umsf




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## Jinn Baba

Eagle_Nest said:


> Heard a big blast somewhere across kahuta.. may Allah protect avery one.



Sonic boom. Any attack on Kahuta will require more than a single blast.


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## Eagle_Nest

maverick1977 said:


> most likely sonic booms


Noop blast bro


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## AfrazulMandal

TsAr said:


> search on google it was in duniya tv on kamran khan show


The pilot was Indian Israeli. Indian born Jew moved to IAF (Israel) and 'volunteered' to fight for IAF (India).

Pakistan is under pressure not to divulge the information.


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## Jinn Baba

MM_Haider said:


> Few days ago some member posted a video of DG ISPR's interview about India's second pilot in Pakistan declared as dead. Can someone give me the link to that thread? It is an urgent request, I am in discussion with some Indian troll.








At 1:04. You're welcome.

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## Eagle_Nest

Jinn Baba said:


> Sonic boom. Any attack on Kahuta will require more than a single blast.


No we have sams and aa guns all over hills.. some kinda rdx blast i think

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## AfrazulMandal

Eagle_Nest said:


> No we have sams and aa guns all over hills.. some kinda rdx blast i think


What is so special about Kahuta?


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## maverick1977

Eagle_Nest said:


> Noop blast bro



any details emerging ?


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## Eagle_Nest

maverick1977 said:


> any details emerging ?


Noop it will never emerg



AfrazulMandal said:


> What is so special about Kahuta?


Search google plz


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## AfrazulMandal

Eagle_Nest said:


> Noop it will never emerg
> 
> 
> Search google plz


Everything is super peaceful here. No war cries.


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## Eagle_Nest

W


AfrazulMandal said:


> Everything is super peaceful here. No war cries.


Who says its a war i heard a big blast never heard before so shared it. I hope its all fine


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## AfrazulMandal

Eagle_Nest said:


> W
> 
> Who says its a war i heard a big blast never heard before so shared it. I hope its all fine


Kahuta is your nuke powerhouse?

A blast there CANNOT be an accident.

The total silence here suggests SOMETHING must be happening. 

Was all that happened last week just a diversion?


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## Khan_21




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## crankthatskunk

MM_Haider said:


> Few days ago some member posted a video of DG ISPR's interview about India's second pilot in Pakistan declared as dead. Can someone give me the link to that thread? It is an urgent request, I am in discussion with some Indian troll.



Here you go mate.


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## SQ8

Eagle_Nest said:


> No we have sams and aa guns all over hills.. some kinda rdx blast i think


Or a truck tire.

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## Hareeb

Khan_21 said:


> View attachment 546403


23rd march rehearsal by PAF.


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## TsAr

Oscar said:


> Or a truck tire.


or someone had beans for dinner and farted


----------



## Arsalan 345

not 23rd march preparation.iaf jets created many sonic boombs in amritsar.there are also reports of blackout in amritsar but they are false.


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## Windjammer

This is over Amritsar tonight, folks there are panicking as some flights have been also delayed.

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## GumNaam

Windjammer said:


> This is over Amritsar tonight, folks there are panicking as some flights have been also delayed.


did the lady in the beginning ask "are they Pakistani"???


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## SABRE

GumNaam said:


> did the lady in the beginning ask "are they Pakistani"???



The comment below the video on YouTube says they are speaking Hebrew. Missile launched into Israel & IDF using sirens.

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## TsAr

Windjammer said:


> This is over Amritsar tonight, folks there are panicking as some flights have been also delayed.


I also hear some sirens in the background. I think Indians are doing some exercises.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

AfrazulMandal said:


> What is so special about Kahuta?


My in laws are from there

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## TsAr

Irfan Baloch said:


> My in laws are from there


better give the indians the coordinates of their house


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## Windjammer

Pakistani Tweeters are making Indians run to the fields .

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## Stealth



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## SABRE

TsAr said:


> I also hear some sirens in the background. I think Indians are doing some exercises.



Israel responding to rocket strikes.


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## GumNaam

TsAr said:


> I also hear some sirens in the background. I think Indians are doing some exercises.


oh...so its not over amristar at all then. friggin' fakers!

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## baqai

Just heard very low flying jets in karachi


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## GumNaam

btw, for all those who are "in the know", during these current confrontations, are the F-7P and F-7PGs being used at all or have all of them been grounded? any ideas?


----------



## TsAr

GumNaam said:


> btw, for all those who are "in the know", during these current confrontations, are the F-7P and F-7PGs being used at all or have all of them been grounded? any ideas?


they have not been grounded,most of them are based on western bases.


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## Arsalan 345

GumNaam said:


> did the lady in the beginning ask "are they Pakistani"???



this is recent hamas or pij attack on israel.they fired iranian missiles on israel and situation is not good.


----------



## SQ8

Odd turn of events going on at different parts around the world.

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## Jinn Baba

AfrazulMandal said:


> This is over Amritsar tonight, folks there are panicking as some flights have been also delayed.



You sure that's Amritsar? I dont recognise the language they're speaking.


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## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> This is over Amritsar tonight, folks there are panicking as some flights have been also delayed.


Israel

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## Vortex

Jinn Baba said:


> You sure that's Amritsar? I dont recognise the language they're speaking.



It’s Hebrew. I have been fooled by Windjammer

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## TsAr

I was surprised after seeing the skyscrapers

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## Jinn Baba

Something is definitely going on:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106322362402828288

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## TsAr

Jinn Baba said:


> Something is definitely going on:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106322362402828288


Airspace on our eastern borders have been banned since 27 Feb, I dont see anything happening.


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## NA71

The Indians are creating a pretext for their next attack. It is inevitable after China's blocking UN resolution...Indians are again pumped up and supported by France/UK/USA.

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## mingle

BB is facing corruption chargs while election r in about month that's why need Hmas support for election win.


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## Wa Muhammada

Jinn Baba said:


> Something is definitely going on:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106322362402828288



Too many Pakistanis in Bham?


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## SQ8

Wa Muhammada said:


> Too many Pakistanis in Bham?


The route taken goes too close to the border and alternative routes aren’t feasible; better to route passengers from a different airport

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## Ghessan

listen to the man AM KK Nohar, if this isn't posted earlier


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## NA71

Ghessan said:


> listen to the man AM KK Nohar, if this isn't posted earlier


 Great story...he is a fiction story writer ... look at his claims IAF will take out masood azhar's hide out....through Air....f-16 downed by R73. 

Actually, one short clip of SU30 locked on by our bird is enough and need of the time.

Indian are now feeding their version of F-16 downing with full pace ...just check articles in online newspapers

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## alphibeti

Ghessan said:


> listen to the man AM KK Nohar, if this isn't posted earlier


Just the verbal farts. What stops Indians from releasing the video or audio recording of the encounter? I heard these liars from the top all the way to the retired dudes making the similar verbal farts. No one in world really believes in these Indian lies.

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## NA71

is it possible that ISPR surprises Pakistan by releasing THAT vedio on March 23

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## Trailer23

Uff-uff, here is RT (Russian Television) grilling the P.S. Raghavan, the Former Indian Ambassador to Russia.

She really takes him to town by asking the tough questions which seem more like


----------



## NA71

Breaking News....Pakistan troops shoot down Indian Drone/quad copter 150m inside LOC ....DG-ISPR.


----------



## Vapnope

enquencher said:


> Iaf enetered..now show ur response





Surenas said:


> Seems like India has just outplayed Pakistan and firmly demonstrated its aerial capabilities.





enquencher said:


> Dnt wori more is coming..keep ur jets in bunkers to prevent escalation





enquencher said:


> Come here n blabber when paf crosses over to indian side





Surenas said:


> No, you can't and you won't.





Surenas said:


> Now tell me which party has really been embarrassed?





Crixus said:


> how can IAF match the man behind F-16s





Novice09 said:


> Second tweet is very attractive, interesting and funny...





Rollno21 said:


> Boys and girls Response ,did not happen





Terry52 said:


> our photographers reached the bomb site faster than your aircrafts.





manga said:


> And hitting iaf base means a full scale war.





unbiasedopinion said:


> Lets give pakistan government some face saving routes too..





manga said:


> Good.
> Just to infrom you, after striking early morning, iaf and defence is in full flow. So good luck.


So i read these chest thumping msgs from supa pawa 2012 people. 

In response to all these comments, how about that we went in, took over your skies, compromised your EW environment, shot two bogeys out of sky and went back with Abhi??
PAF bitch-slapped IAF and they couldn't do a squat about it..

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## CaptainNemo

nahmed71 said:


> Breaking News....Pakistan troops shoot down Indian Drone/quad copter 150m inside LOC ....DG-ISPR.


----------



## CaptainNemo

Looks like a DJI Mavic Pro


----------



## Secret Service

Trailer23 said:


> Uff-uff, here is RT (Russian Television) grilling the P.S. Raghavan, the Former Indian Ambassador to Russia.
> 
> She really takes him to town by asking the tough questions which seem more like



i am literally blown away by the questioning of this lady. And i was expecting him to say you are having Pakistani narrative, or Pakistani influenced news.


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## NA71

Something is cocking again...FM says we have to be extremely cautious till MAY 18. Indians may try another attempt for public consumption.

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## Comfortably Numb

couple of interesting points in this video
eye witnesses saying that;

_They saw a Pakistani plane being shot down which fell just across the LOC.

Wreckage of the plane can be viewed from IOK as it fell on the hill top which is just across.

Indian media team not allowed by Indian army to go over the hill on Indian side to take a look across on the supposed wreckage of Pakistani plane, as the area on Indian side has been cordoned off by military._

Can some one please shed some light on it.
If the wreck is just across, the Indian military could easily photograph it. why havent they?
OR
are the witnesses lying?
OR
was it actually an Indian plane that fell down on Indian side and Indian military then cordoned off the area?



PS
if this is an incident/video that has been discussed earlier by the members then please pardon my ignorance.


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## MuslimRao

The witnesses most likely thought it was a PAF jet when it was an Indian plane. 

India doesn't want anyone to see because it would be embarrassing. Of course they could release pictures. Why release a supposed picture of our missile casing if they had our plane?


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## Wa Muhammada

nahmed71 said:


> Something is cocking again...FM says we have to be extremely cautious till MAY 18. Indians may try another attempt for public consumption.



Airforce extremely active where I am today ...won’t name the area Due to OSEINT


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## NA71

yellow said:


> couple of interesting points in this video
> eye witnesses saying that;
> 
> _They saw a Pakistani plane being shot down which fell just across the LOC.
> 
> Wreckage of the plane can be viewed from IOK as it fell on the hill top which is just across.
> 
> Indian media team not allowed by Indian army to go over the hill on Indian side to take a look across on the supposed wreckage of Pakistani plane, as the area on Indian side has been cordoned off by military._
> 
> Can some one please shed some light on it.
> If the wreck is just across, the Indian military could easily photograph it. why havent they?
> OR
> are the witnesses lying?
> OR
> was it actually an Indian plane that fell down on Indian side and Indian military then cordoned off the area?
> 
> 
> 
> PS
> if this is an incident/video that has been discussed earlier by the members then please pardon my ignorance.


if it is propaganda war video...ask channel 92/BOL/24 News to interview few villagers and upload counter video of downing 2 more IAF jets....

I posted 2 days ago....Indians have been uploading similar videos, news articles, YT clips showing lies lies lies with fake photos, experts opinions .... General public just being intoxicated.


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## Comfortably Numb

nahmed71 said:


> if it is propaganda war video...ask channel 92/BOL/24 News to interview few villagers and upload counter video of downing 2 more IAF jets....



you missed my point

never mind


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## NA71

yellow said:


> you missed my point
> 
> never mind


No i got it....If it was indeed Pakistani Planes Indian cricket team would have its photos on their shirts....they are gone crazy to that extent.


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## Comfortably Numb

nahmed71 said:


> No i got it....If it was indeed Pakistani Planes Indian cricket team would have its photos on their shirts....they are gone crazy to that extent.



lol. Exactly

Then there is the other possibility of eyewitnesses being right about seeing a plane go down and it was actually an Indian one. Explains the access being denied to media people in this video. And if that is the case, it can very well be the second jet caimed to be downed by Pakistan.
cheers

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

yellow said:


> lol. Exactly
> 
> Then there is the other possibility of eyewitnesses being right about seeing a plane go down and it was actually an Indian one. Explains the access being denied to media people in this video.


If the video is true and there is wreckage of a plane on the Indian side of LoC, and the Indian military is denying access, it HAS to be an Indian plane. Otherwise the Indian government would have already plastered images across the media and their defense minister wouldn’t have had to resort to mentioning a debunked Facebook post as evidence for shooting down a Pakistani plane at a press conference.

Maybe they’re trying to paint the Pakistani flag on the wreckage before allowing the media access

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## NA71

yellow said:


> lol. Exactly
> 
> Then there is the other possibility of eyewitnesses being right about seeing a plane go down and it was actually an Indian one. Explains the access being denied to media people in this video. And if that is the case, it can very well be the second jet caimed to be downed by Pakistan.
> cheers


I think this vid referring another incident post FEB 27....correct me. The irony is that IAF will attempt another incursion sooner or later to regain its position in the eyes of its own military realm


----------



## Comfortably Numb

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> If the video is true and there is wreckage of a plane on the Indian side of LoC, and the Indian military is denying access, it HAS to be an Indian plane. Otherwise the Indian government would have already plastered images across the media and their defense minister wouldn’t have had to resort to mentioning a debunked Facebook post as evidence for shooting down a Pakistani plane at a press conference.
> 
> Maybe they’re trying to paint the Pakistani flag on the wreckage before allowing the media access



Exactly. If it indeed was a Pakistani jet then Indians could have got pictures through cameras from their side or drones even as the wreck is said to have fallen just across LOC. They could photograph smoke rising from the wreck. They havent produced anything of the kind and instead restricted access to the area on their side of the border. Thus one could speculate about the Indian military trying to hide something there.


----------



## HRK

yellow said:


> couple of interesting points in this video
> eye witnesses saying that;
> 
> _They saw a Pakistani plane being shot down which fell just across the LOC.
> 
> Wreckage of the plane can be viewed from IOK as it fell on the hill top which is just across.
> 
> Indian media team not allowed by Indian army to go over the hill on Indian side to take a look across on the supposed wreckage of Pakistani plane, as the area on Indian side has been cordoned off by military._
> 
> Can some one please shed some light on it.
> If the wreck is just across, the Indian military could easily photograph it. why havent they?
> OR
> are the witnesses lying?
> OR
> was it actually an Indian plane that fell down on Indian side and Indian military then cordoned off the area?
> 
> 
> 
> PS
> if this is an incident/video that has been discussed earlier by the members then please pardon my ignorance.


Do you think they are "Local Civilians" 

its a _civilian_ who is standing in this style at LOC






First person name Manjeet *"Kumar"* ..... 

Local *villager s*peaking in _*civilian language*_ like
- *Gushat *laga rahe the 
- *Zeor Line*
- *Strike* kiya 

Second person 
- Pilot *exit *ho gaya 
- Parachute ke zariya *Land* kar gaya 

And biggest give away is that the first person said he saw the jet falling at the next hill top in Pakistani side of LOC and he saw it himself mean he (the CIVILIAN Person) was on the hill at Indian side of LOC .... 

How the residents of Indian state UP could be terms as local resident of LOC ......

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## Comfortably Numb

nahmed71 said:


> I think this vid referring another incident post FEB 27....correct me.


it was uploaded to youtube on 27th



HRK said:


> Do you think they are "Local Civilians"
> 
> its a _civilian_ who is standing in this style at LOC
> View attachment 546895
> 
> 
> First person name Manjeet *"Kumar"* .....
> 
> Local *villager s*peaking in _*civilian language*_ like
> - *Gushat *laga rahe the
> - *Zeor Line*
> - *Strike* kiya
> 
> Second person
> - Pilot *exit *ho gaya
> - Parachute ke zariya *Land* kar gaya
> 
> And biggest give away is that the first person said he saw the jet falling at the next hill top in Pakistani side of LOC and he saw it himself mean he (the CIVILIAN Person) was on the hill at Indian side of LOC ....
> 
> How the residents of Indian state UP could be terms as local resident of LOC ......



true
i noticed that too. that is why i listed the possibilty of "witnesses" lying. It is one or the other.

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## Vortex

HRK said:


> Do you think they are "Local Civilians"
> 
> its a _civilian_ who is standing in this style at LOC
> View attachment 546895
> 
> 
> First person name Manjeet *"Kumar"* .....
> 
> Local *villager s*peaking in _*civilian language*_ like
> - *Gushat *laga rahe the
> - *Zeor Line*
> - *Strike* kiya
> 
> Second person
> - Pilot *exit *ho gaya
> - Parachute ke zariya *Land* kar gaya
> 
> And biggest give away is that the first person said he saw the jet falling at the next hill top in Pakistani side of LOC and he saw it himself mean he (the CIVILIAN Person) was on the hill at Indian side of LOC ....
> 
> How the residents of Indian state UP could be terms as local resident of LOC ......



Zabardast !


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## HAIDER

HRK said:


> Do you think they are "Local Civilians"
> 
> its a _civilian_ who is standing in this style at LOC
> View attachment 546895
> 
> 
> First person name Manjeet *"Kumar"* .....
> 
> Local *villager s*peaking in _*civilian language*_ like
> - *Gushat *laga rahe the
> - *Zeor Line*
> - *Strike* kiya
> 
> Second person
> - Pilot *exit *ho gaya
> - Parachute ke zariya *Land* kar gaya
> 
> And biggest give away is that the first person said he saw the jet falling at the next hill top in Pakistani side of LOC and he saw it himself mean he (the CIVILIAN Person) was on the hill at Indian side of LOC ....
> 
> How the residents of Indian state UP could be terms as local resident of LOC ......


Indian Intelligence military officers ..


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## HRK

HAIDER said:


> Indian Intelligence military officers ..


may be but gain these much stupidity .... ?? I don't think 

I am more inclined to believe they are from NCOs, subedar or jawan cadre, they does not appear sharp enough to be in intelligence services

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## The Eagle

HRK said:


> Do you think they are "Local Civilians"
> 
> its a _civilian_ who is standing in this style at LOC
> View attachment 546895
> 
> 
> First person name Manjeet *"Kumar"* .....
> 
> Local *villager s*peaking in _*civilian language*_ like
> - *Gushat *laga rahe the
> - *Zeor Line*
> - *Strike* kiya
> 
> Second person
> - Pilot *exit *ho gaya
> - Parachute ke zariya *Land* kar gaya
> 
> And biggest give away is that the first person said he saw the jet falling at the next hill top in Pakistani side of LOC and he saw it himself mean he (the CIVILIAN Person) was on the hill at Indian side of LOC ....
> 
> How the residents of Indian state UP could be terms as local resident of LOC ......



The Drama Queen label is not earned suddenly rather, it comes after a lot of practice, rehearsal & repetition. As far as Pakistanis have learnt them, Indians will firstly create a basic story like random narration, then will pick few points, will stage another gathering over that and to connect dots, will bring in more witness to prove the first stage random evidence. So all in all, they create evidence and start bragging over it. I see that video as yet another breaking news for many days unless, Modi wins election at least.

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## Jinn Baba

yellow said:


> couple of interesting points in this video
> eye witnesses saying that;
> 
> _They saw a Pakistani plane being shot down which fell just across the LOC.
> 
> Wreckage of the plane can be viewed from IOK as it fell on the hill top which is just across.
> 
> Indian media team not allowed by Indian army to go over the hill on Indian side to take a look across on the supposed wreckage of Pakistani plane, as the area on Indian side has been cordoned off by military._
> 
> Can some one please shed some light on it.
> If the wreck is just across, the Indian military could easily photograph it. why havent they?
> OR
> are the witnesses lying?
> OR
> was it actually an Indian plane that fell down on Indian side and Indian military then cordoned off the area?
> 
> 
> 
> PS
> if this is an incident/video that has been discussed earlier by the members then please pardon my ignorance.



1) most Indians including Indian media think Pakistani F16s and JF17s are IAF jets - look at the videos they post or air. So what's to say that these locals knew any better? What they saw was likely a JF17 shooting a Mig 21.

2) these locals saw a plane being blown out the sky with one pilot ejecting - mig 21 had a single pilot. Everything we have heard from Indians about an alleged PAF jet being shot down was that it was a F16D with two pilots. Does this not contradict everything Indians have said so far? Has the story now changed?

Humiliated Indians are only further embarrassing themselves to the rest of the world. 350+ MKI, 29s and 2Ks and they have still been unable to respond to the PAF strike and downing of their jets 

Waisay, there is another Indian video:

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## NA71

Jinn Baba said:


> 1) most Indians including Indian media think Pakistani F16s and JF17s are IAF jets - look at the videos they post or air. So what's to say that these locals knew any better? What they saw was likely a JF17 shooting a Mig 21.
> 
> 2) these locals saw a plane being blown out the sky with one pilot ejecting - mig 21 had a single pilot. Everything we have heard from Indians about an alleged PAF jet being shot down was that it was a F16D with two pilots. Does this not contradict everything Indians have said so far? Has the story now changed?
> 
> Humiliated Indians are only further embarrassing themselves to the rest of the world. 350+ MKI, 29s and 2Ks and they have still been unable to respond to the PAF strike and downing of their jets
> 
> Waisay, there is another Indian video:


I can watch and watch this clip 10 times a day for rest of life. Its very good for my health. BTW the DG ISPR Presser on Feb27 is still my fav. on Play list.

Pak FM called US security adviser and told him abt intl reports of Indians planning to launch another hit & run type attack. Pak again Make it clear that we will not sit back but to give heavy response. Russian News Agency RT report.

Kiya ho raha hey back ground mein?


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## HRK

nahmed71 said:


> Pak FM called US security adviser and told him abt intl reports of Indians planning to launch another hit & run type attack. Pak again Make it clear that we will not sit back but to give heavy response. Russian News Agency RT report.
> 
> Kiya ho raha hey back ground mein?


plz post link ....


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## NA71

local link 




I am trying to get RT link.....

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## HRK

nahmed71 said:


> I am trying to get RT link.....


that will be helpful


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## The Eagle

HRK said:


> that will be helpful



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-may-attack-in-30-days-imran.608360/

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## HAIDER

HRK said:


> may be but gain these much stupidity .... ?? I don't think
> 
> I am more inclined to believe they are from NCOs, subedar or jawan cadre, they does not appear sharp enough to be in intelligence services


If Indian COAS speaks logic less , then don't expect any decent or full of logic statement from these officers. But, they are from Indian military intelligence people. More l see and look the faces and presence in the environment , popping from nowhere...it is typical intelligence smoke cloud technique.

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## Wa Muhammada

nahmed71 said:


> local link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to get RT link.....



Even though this Haqeeqat TV guy is crazy, his videos turn out to be correct


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## The Accountant

Wa Muhammada said:


> Even though this Haqeeqat TV guy is crazy, his videos turn out to be correct


No he is not ... he states 10 different assumptions and one of them get hits he keep on referring it ...

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## NA71

Wa Muhammada said:


> Even though this Haqeeqat TV guy is crazy, his videos turn out to be correct



Bro he is not stupid ....he is feeding info into YT ...which is normally not available in News Channels...i hope you understand.

What he said on Haqeeqat TV...IK repeated during his speech and yesterday FM repeated again. This guy is saying Indians will attempt again and Yankees are now backing them.


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## Ali_Baba

Here is a chronology of the shoot downs of the IAF planes by PAF.

1) – 1 x Mig 21 Shot down – Abhi - 27th Feb 2019

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...21-bison-versus-pakistani-f-16-viper-bullshit

2) – 1 x Mig21 Shot down on 27th Feb 2019 and is later *covered up* as a *training crash* - Cover up date = 8th March 2019

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...rajasthan-pilot-safe/articleshow/68318681.cms

3) – 1 x “2 seater Indian Jet" is shot down on the 27th Feb 2019 and covered up as a technical failure on the same day as the Mig 21 shoot down.

http://www.uniindia.com/news/north/...-jet-crashes-in-kashmir-s-budgam/1513057.html

*Associated video* : 



 
4) – 1 x Mi17 Helicopter launched to rescue pilots of downed 2-Seater and is shot down in the process.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...ct-of-jammu-and-kashmir-two-dead-1944394.html

All crashes on the 27th Feb 2019 and India starts the great cover up operation.

Shoot downs number 3), 4) do stick out like a sore thumb given they were “also” on the same day as the shoot down of Abhi etc.

Artist depiction of the JF17 clash with the IAF on 27th February 2019.







Chances are items 1 & 2 were JF17. Items 3 & 4 were F16s. PAF denies Items 3 & 4 due to denying F16 use in that incident due to American pressure to save India further embarassment and threat of F16 related sanctions if PAF doesnot comply.

Modi would not have made his comments about poor IAF performance, if IAF had only lost 1 aircraft, 2.. maybe he would.. but 4 lost on that day, that was what his comment was about for sure. If you try to explain what happened that day(with eye witness reports + videos of parachutes + ISPR initial comments on muber of pilots + Imran Khans comments of 2 Migs shot down etc ) then all accounts sound inconsistent and contradict each other until you settle on the shoot down of 3 IAF Jets. It all clicks together when you correlate with 3 IAF jets( 2 x Mig21 + 1 x Su30MKI ) shot down that day.

I wonder how Airforces Monthly will cover this. Alan Warnes has good contacts inside PAF.

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## Myth_buster_1

I just noticed that uniform matches with Israeli forces uniform. or am i wrong?

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## The Accountant

Myth_buster_1 said:


> I just noticed that uniform matches with Israeli forces uniform. or am i wrong?


It matches with indian police


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## Bossman

Myth_buster_1 said:


> I just noticed that uniform matches with Israeli forces uniform. or am i wrong?



Cheap canvas boots only worn by Indian military.


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## mastaan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> I just noticed that uniform matches with Israeli forces uniform. or am i wrong?


That's a Jammu Kashmir Police guy .. some of you guys are paranoid about israelis

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## Ali_Baba

A "TheWeek" article written in Tom Clancy style of the "inside" track. If this is the "inside" track, then the omission of the F16 shoot down is interesting. ie it didn't happen !!!

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/2019/03/02/stealthy-skydivers.html

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## zulu

mastaan said:


> That's a Jammu Kashmir Police guy .. some of you guys are paranoid about israelis



Have to give u credit on that observation  yes there are so many peoples incl this forum just say ISRAEL and every argument/logic thrown out of window

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## mastaan

zulu said:


> Have to give u credit on that observation  yes there are so many peoples incl this forum just say ISRAEL and every argument/logic thrown out of window


People give them too much credit... 
Plus, our (Indo-Pak) LOC border is one of the roughest in the world.. Middle east acclimatized Israelis won't last here much in our rugged mountains.. Only us Indians and Pakistanis are junooni enough to keep at it

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## zulu

mastaan said:


> People give them too much credit...
> Plus, our (Indo-Pak) LOC border is one of the roughest in the world.. Middle east acclimatized Israelis won't last here much in our rugged mountains.. Only us Indians and Pakistanis are junooni enough to keep at it


I dont mind junoon but show it where it required in battlefield not on internet  able to listen and argue with logic and information helps both sides understanding each other positions

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## mastaan

zulu said:


> I dont mind junoon but show it where it required in battlefield not on internet  able to listen and argue with logic and information helps both sides understanding each other positions


Agree. Am sure the negotiators and interlocutors on both sides are indeed like that, else we both nations would already be down to throwing rocks at each other, after having destroyed each other in a nuclear war - if the internet warriors were listened to

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## NeonNinja




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## NA71

HRK said:


> that will be helpful



Sir see this ....the same report is being discussed ...uploaded today.

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## ghazi768

nahmed71 said:


> Sir see this ....the same report is being discussed ...uploaded today.


There is a difference between missile strikes and nuclear missile strikes..

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## ZedZeeshan

ghazi768 said:


> There is a difference between missile strikes and nuclear missile strikes..


Yeah but when missile is launched its impossible to predict if its nuclear tipped or no..!

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## ghazi768

ZedZeeshan said:


> Yeah but when missile is launched its impossible to predict if its nuclear tipped or no..!


Let say these are brahmos and all are fired at their full range (unlikely), that means will roughly take less than 3 minutes to reach targets. And lets say that somehow you are able to detect it right at launch.. what will you do? press the button?

We should not only advise Indians to be watchful of media spinning for political gains, we should also be conscious of this..


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## ZedZeeshan

ghazi768 said:


> Let say these are brahmos and all are fired at their full range (unlikely), that means will roughly take less than 3 minutes to reach targets. And lets say that somehow you are able to detect it right at launch.. what will you do? press the button?
> 
> We should not only advise Indians to be watchful of media spinning for political gains, we should also be conscious of this..


Brahmos cannot carry nuclear warhead... and your remaining argument is based n IF...


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## ghazi768

ZedZeeshan said:


> Brahmos cannot carry nuclear warhead... and your remaining argument is based n IF...


A big IF actually. May I ask what 'missile' you had in mind?


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## ZedZeeshan

ghazi768 said:


> A big IF actually. May I ask what 'missile' you had in mind?


I dont know my friend. you mentioned bahmos so i clarified its non nuclear capable missile...rest only indian army knows what they wanted to shoot..


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## ghazi768

ZedZeeshan said:


> I dont know my friend. you mentioned bahmos so i clarified its non nuclear capable missile...rest only indian army knows what they wanted to shoot..


ok, but you mentioned the question of how to know if it is nuclear tipped or not? am I right?


----------



## ziaulislam

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=416821042223943

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## sohailbarki

HRK said:


> Do you think they are "Local Civilians"
> 
> its a _civilian_ who is standing in this style at LOC
> View attachment 546895
> 
> 
> First person name Manjeet *"Kumar"* .....
> 
> Local *villager s*peaking in _*civilian language*_ like
> - *Gushat *laga rahe the
> - *Zeor Line*
> - *Strike* kiya
> 
> Second person
> - Pilot *exit *ho gaya
> - Parachute ke zariya *Land* kar gaya
> 
> And biggest give away is that the first person said he saw the jet falling at the next hill top in Pakistani side of LOC and he saw it himself mean he (the CIVILIAN Person) was on the hill at Indian side of LOC ....
> 
> How the residents of Indian state UP could be terms as local resident of LOC ......



The People don't seem to be Kashimiris from their color, looks, dress.
They guy in red jumper seems like an army officer

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## Wa Muhammada

What is the current situation on the Indian side? Last I heard Indian air bases in central India were practicing mock bombing raids.


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## HRK

sohailbarki said:


> The People don't seem to be Kashimiris from their color, looks, dress.
> They guy in red jumper seems like an army officer


this is what I was implying

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## NA71

Wa Muhammada said:


> What is the current situation on the Indian side? Last I heard Indian air bases in central India were practicing mock bombing raids.



Yes, news are same...they are still in a mood of one more attempt. but this time on multiple sites on LOC and Peripheral areas not deep inside. Most likely military posts on pretext of PA targeting civilians. blah blah ....

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## Amaa'n

am looking for the Serial number of Abhi's A/C , can anyone share the pic please? need it asap


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## HRK

balixd said:


> am looking for the Serial number of Abhi's A/C , can anyone share the pic please? need it asap


CU-2328

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## untitled

HRK said:


> CU-2328


Same jet foreground?

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## ghazi52

The Pictures suggests that *down Mig 21* was flying with 2 R73 + 2 R77 + 1 Drop tank.

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## Hareeb

Indian Surgical Strike 2.0 on FEB 26 was fake." - Praveen Sawhney

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## NeonNinja




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## NeonNinja




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## baqai

member.exe said:


> Same jet foreground?
> View attachment 547295



i think thats 22xx not 23xx i might be wrong


----------



## ziaulislam

Summary




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## GumNaam

ziaulislam said:


> Summary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


 @ do tayyaray gir gaye to shusma swaraj nay Quran ki ayetain pardi, aur tayyaray girja tay to modi hafiz ban ja tay kashmir kay madrassay say nikal tay huya dikhai day tay! 

Anwar Maqsood's still got it man!!!

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## NA71

According to Vietnamese news paper, Pakistan is buying 36 J10s on urgent basis. Here is the translation:

*Pakistan will buy J-10 fighter to fight India?
17:19 15/03/2019*

It does not exclude the possibility that Pakistan will turn to China to buy J-10 fighters to counterbalance India's Su-30MKI and Rafale aircraft.

Excluding the possibility, Pakistan could consider a plan to strengthen its air power with more modern Chinese fighters like the J-10. There have been reports that Pakistan will buy at least 36 J-10s. The new J-10s equipped with the WS-10B thrust vector control engine that recently performed at Zhuhai 2018 will more or less pose a big challenge to Indian aircraft. Given the current situation, it is likely that Pakistan will buy the J-10 version to counterbalance the Su-30MKI and Rafale fighters undergoing service in the Indian Air Force.

https://anninhthudo.vn/quan-su/info-pakistan-se-mua-chien-dau-co-j10-de-chong-an-do/802951.antd


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## M.AsfandYar

GumNaam said:


> @ do tayyaray gir gaye to shusma swaraj nay Quran ki ayetain pardi, aur tayyaray girja tay to modi hafiz ban ja tay kashmir kay madrassay say nikal tay huya dikhai day tay!
> 
> Anwar Maqsood's still got it man!!!


Always a pleasure to see and her these guys. Always.


----------



## The Accountant

This is just an analysis


nahmed71 said:


> According to Vietnamese news paper, Pakistan is buying 36 J10s on urgent basis. Here is the translation:
> 
> *Pakistan will buy J-10 fighter to fight India?
> 17:19 15/03/2019*
> 
> It does not exclude the possibility that Pakistan will turn to China to buy J-10 fighters to counterbalance India's Su-30MKI and Rafale aircraft.
> 
> Excluding the possibility, Pakistan could consider a plan to strengthen its air power with more modern Chinese fighters like the J-10. There have been reports that Pakistan will buy at least 36 J-10s. The new J-10s equipped with the WS-10B thrust vector control engine that recently performed at Zhuhai 2018 will more or less pose a big challenge to Indian aircraft. Given the current situation, it is likely that Pakistan will buy the J-10 version to counterbalance the Su-30MKI and Rafale fighters undergoing service in the Indian Air Force.
> 
> https://anninhthudo.vn/quan-su/info-pakistan-se-mua-chien-dau-co-j10-de-chong-an-do/802951.antd


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## NA71

The Accountant said:


> This is just an analysis


 Nope....wait for few days...we are in talks.


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## The Accountant

nahmed71 said:


> Nope....wait for few days...we are in talks.


Source of your information? We were in talks since 2005 ... we signed an MOU in 2007 but then scrap the idea considering that J10 capabilities are more of less equivalent to JF17 ...

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## HawkEye27

The Accountant said:


> Source of your information? We were in talks since 2005 ... we signed an MOU in 2007 but then scrap the idea considering that J10 capabilities are more of less equivalent to JF17 ...



Seems we need an urgent PL-15 carrier


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## The Accountant

tipu_ssw said:


> Seems we need an urgent PL-15 carrier


pl15 can be integrated with thunder as well ... what do you think, we will buy J10 and today they will be delivered tomorrow and we will start flying them from day after tomorrow ? 

Even if we buy them today it will take atleast couple of years just to deliver and integrate on fast pace basis and in normal circumtances it will take double the time ...

For immediate need PAF is looking for Thuner block 3 , some more F16s (old) to fill the numbers gap as they will be flyable from day 1 and for long term we are going for 5th generation ...

Sooner or later f16s is going to be at same status that mirrage currently has in our arsenal ... If nobody shows intererst in F16 V then production for f16 will be stopped for good ... then we can buy them in good quantities as our second work horse and fifth generation as our top end fighter ... This is going to happen in next 5 to 10 years ....

Unless we feel desperate (which we are not, reference to the cucrrent performance of thunder) we will not buy and platform before fifth generation comes in

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## Bilal Khan 777

The Accountant said:


> pl15 can be integrated with thunder as well ... what do you think, we will buy J10 and today they will be delivered tomorrow and we will start flying them from day after tomorrow ?
> 
> Even if we buy them today it will take atleast couple of years just to deliver and integrate on fast pace basis and in normal circumtances it will take double the time ...
> 
> For immediate need PAF is looking for Thuner block 3 , some more F16s (old) to fill the numbers gap as they will be flyable from day 1 and for long term we are going for 5th generation ...
> 
> Sooner or later f16s is going to be at same status that mirrage currently has in our arsenal ... If nobody shows intererst in F16 V then production for f16 will be stopped for good ... then we can buy them in good quantities as our second work horse and fifth generation as our top end fighter ... This is going to happen in next 5 to 10 years ....
> 
> Unless we feel desperate (which we are not, reference to the cucrrent performance of thunder) we will not buy and platform before fifth generation comes in



Already integrated

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## Maxpane

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated


really sir? . people were saying its a PS and cant be integrated with blk 2 radar

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## Sine Nomine

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated


You bad old man,you are scaring off our future tea guests from East.

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## Riz

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated


If true... Then in next episode PAF will sure bomb Indian parliament in new delhi...

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## Jinn Baba

nahmed71 said:


> According to Vietnamese news paper, Pakistan is buying 36 J10s on urgent basis. Here is the translation:
> 
> *Pakistan will buy J-10 fighter to fight India?
> 17:19 15/03/2019*
> 
> It does not exclude the possibility that Pakistan will turn to China to buy J-10 fighters to counterbalance India's Su-30MKI and Rafale aircraft.
> 
> Excluding the possibility, Pakistan could consider a plan to strengthen its air power with more modern Chinese fighters like the J-10. There have been reports that Pakistan will buy at least 36 J-10s. The new J-10s equipped with the WS-10B thrust vector control engine that recently performed at Zhuhai 2018 will more or less pose a big challenge to Indian aircraft. Given the current situation, it is likely that Pakistan will buy the J-10 version to counterbalance the Su-30MKI and Rafale fighters undergoing service in the Indian Air Force.
> 
> https://anninhthudo.vn/quan-su/info-pakistan-se-mua-chien-dau-co-j10-de-chong-an-do/802951.antd



A Chinese source would be a lot more credible.

Anyway, aren't the Chinese too busy building these for the PLAAF? They are more likely to prioritise their own air forces needs over PAF.


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## HawkEye27

The Accountant said:


> pl15 can be integrated with thunder as well ... what do you think, we will buy J10 and today they will be delivered tomorrow and we will start flying them from day after tomorrow ?
> 
> Even if we buy them today it will take atleast couple of years just to deliver and integrate on fast pace basis and in normal circumtances it will take double the time ...
> 
> For immediate need PAF is looking for Thuner block 3 , some more F16s (old) to fill the numbers gap as they will be flyable from day 1 and for long term we are going for 5th generation ...
> 
> Sooner or later f16s is going to be at same status that mirrage currently has in our arsenal ... If nobody shows intererst in F16 V then production for f16 will be stopped for good ... then we can buy them in good quantities as our second work horse and fifth generation as our top end fighter ... This is going to happen in next 5 to 10 years ....
> 
> Unless we feel desperate (which we are not, reference to the cucrrent performance of thunder) we will not buy and platform before fifth generation comes in



Its not just the avionics and missile. We need aircraft performance to enhance the missile ranges. Both for PL-12 & PL-15


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## Jinn Baba

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated



On how many aircraft? Or only Block 2? You guys in the know just give one liners and leave the rest of us desperate for more

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## Maxpane

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated


@Deino


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## NA71

Good piece ....worth reading :

India and Pakistan may well shape up to be the modern counterpart to Cold-War-divided Germany. Kashmir, then, is the new Berlin: divided, tense, full of intrigue. The two superpowers have found two very dangerous proxies to engage in shadow play.

The military confrontation, meanwhile, has developed its own dynamic. As Arzan Tarapore writes at War on the Rocks:

India demonstrated a new appetite for imposing costs on Pakistan, and especially for crossing thresholds and accepting risk. Its actions probably still won’t deter Pakistan, though they will make the next crisis more dangerous. India may now assess that henceforth it can strike its neighbor, absorb a proportionate Pakistani retaliation, and safely de-escalate later in a crisis. But with Pakistan now more concerned about its own deterrent, this crisis may induce both sides to take riskier action next time.

Such riskier actions could escalate all the way to the nuclear level. And the consequences of a nuclear exchange would be considerably worse than what’s depicted in The City of Devi. If the two sides only use only a portion of their nuclear arsenals, it would kill millions of people on the subcontinent and also have a devastating impact worldwide. A partial nuclear winter would settle upon the planet: the resulting hunger, drought, and disease would kill as many as 2 billion people.

Now that the acute crisis has passed, regional actors have to use this reprieve to defuse the world’s most dangerous nuclear faultline. Those efforts have to begin with Kashmir. Fortunately, the difficult task of working out a joint resolution to the problem has already been done, back in the mid-2000s. As Ahmed Rashid points out:
Indian and Pakistani envoys agreed to make the Line of Control, the heavily militarized border between the Indian and Pakistani-controlled portions of Kashmir, irrelevant by giving the Kashmiris the right to free movement and trade across the line. They agreed upon providing autonomy to Kashmir’s subregions and drawing down forces as violence receded. They also agreed to establish a body of Kashmiris, Indians, and Pakistanis, vaguely described as a “joint mechanism,” to oversee the political and economic rights of the Kashmiris on both sides of the line.

Khan seems amenable to revisiting this deal; Modi will not budge until after the elections. The missing ingredient at this point is pressure from outside the subcontinent. Here, the cluelessness of the Trump administration and the unraveling U.S.-China relationship serve as significant obstacles.

But maybe India and Pakistan will show more sense than their respective backers. These are ancient civilizations that have weathered many previous storms. Now they just have to team up to avoid a nuclear winter.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/18/the-worlds-most-dangerous-divide/

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## Bilal Khan 777

Already integrated, tested and in-service. This is what tension periods do, they bring plans to execution. PAF now has a credible BVR deterrent that goes beyond anything US can provide. More good news to follow. Sit tight.

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## Windjammer

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated, tested and in-service. This is what tension periods do, they bring plans to execution. PAF now has a credible BVR deterrent that goes beyond anything US can provide. More good news to follow. Sit tight.


Sir, PAF was supposed to hold a press brief and expose all the lies emanating from India and also give details on the aerial clash, any idea why is it being held back.

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## PakSword

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated


Wow what an amazing news sir


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## Bilal Khan 777

Windjammer said:


> Sir, PAF was supposed to hold a press brief and expose all the lies emanating from India and also give details on the aerial clash, any idea why is it being held back.



PAF is currently at full deployment and prepared for any eventuality from India. All press releases are responsibility of ISPR.

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## Windjammer

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> PAF is currently at full deployment and prepared for any eventuality from India. All press releases are responsibility of ISPR.


Yes but from what i understand, it was meant to be a joint press brief by ISPR and DMA to exclusively cover the PAF operations on the 27th.

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## F86 Saber

All PAF personnel (in fact all armed forces personnel) are under strict instructions to leave all whatsapp groups and not indulge in any discussion related to any operational matters with anyone. However armed forces personnel are still human so gossip vines cannot be completely cut off . There is some very interesting information circulating about the events of 27th Feb, i do not want to be the one to disclose something which is not meant to be released however it is confirmed that the 2nd jet was in fact an SU-30.

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## NA71

F86 Saber said:


> All PAF personnel (in fact all armed forces personnel) are under strict instructions to leave all whatsapp groups and not indulge in any discussion related to any operational matters with anyone. However armed forces personnel are still human so gossip vines cannot be completely cut off . There is some very interesting information circulating about the events of 27th Feb, i do not want to be the one to disclose something which is not meant to be released however it is confirmed that the 2nd jet was in fact an SU-30.


opssss .... press briefing is around the corner thats why this info is being circulated. Come with solid undeniable proofs...Indian media will cry like never before.


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## Jinn Baba

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> More good news to follow. Sit tight.



See what I mean about the one liners  but I'm happy with even this. Everyone keeps talking about the Indians reassessing, and preparing for round two. Finally we have news that PAF is not sitting still either, and has more surprises in store 



nahmed71 said:


> opssss .... press briefing is around the corner thats why this info is being circulated. Come with solid undeniable proofs...Indian media will cry like never before.



Hope they let us know a day in advance - I'll rearrange work to ensure I'm online to depress the Indians

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## Windjammer

nahmed71 said:


> opssss .... press briefing is around the corner thats why this info is being circulated. Come with solid undeniable proofs...Indian media will cry like never before.


I guess 23rd March will be interesting in more ways than one.

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## Maxpane

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> More good news to follow. Sit tight.


waiting for it


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## NA71

Windjammer said:


> I guess 23rd March will be interesting in more ways than one.


Sir I guess, the eve of March 22, so that Pakistanis can enjoy next morning's Flypast


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## Oruc

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated, tested and in-service. This is what tension periods do, they bring plans to execution. PAF now has a credible BVR deterrent that goes beyond anything US can provide. More good news to follow. Sit tight.


awesome. loving it already.


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## Windjammer

nahmed71 said:


> Sir I guess, the eve of March 22, so that Pakistanis can enjoy next morning's Flypast


Ameen to that.

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## The Accountant

You made my day 

So the rumors about delivery of PL15 correct ?


Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated

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## JF-17ThunderBlock3

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated, tested and in-service. This is what tension periods do, they bring plans to execution. PAF now has a credible BVR deterrent that goes beyond anything US can provide. More good news to follow. Sit tight.



Sir, US made range 150km however the variant China did work on was 400km
curious which one we got ?


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## ziaulislam

nahmed71 said:


> opssss .... press briefing is around the corner thats why this info is being circulated. Come with solid undeniable proofs...Indian media will cry like never before.


Nothing PAF presents will be considered as proof not even a pilot unless its broken apart like abhi episode 

Initially india media said he is not an Indian !!because of his moustache untill a 2010 video of him surfaced from india today

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## GumNaam

ziaulislam said:


> Nothing PAF presents will be considered as proof not even a pilot unless its broken apart like abhi episode
> 
> Initially india media said he is not an Indian !!because of his moustache untill a 2010 video of him surfaced from india today


no they never said that he's not indian. even the indian media isn't that stupid...

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## HawkEye27

GumNaam said:


> no they never said that he's not indian. even the indian media isn't that stupid...


Never Ever! Neve Never underestimate the stupidity of Indian Median

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## 1Paki$tani

Guys absolute hypothetical perhaps absurd thing.

Given that Indians are badly bruised as to what happened to them on 27 February 2019 and the fact that they want some face saving and something that perhaps might be quite public. So keeping that in mind what is the possibility that on 23 March 2019 during parade they could come near the border say around poonch sector and lock onto one of the performing fighters and fire salvo of missiles. 

keeping in mind the distance from there to parade ground is around 88km which is well within BVR range?

If that occur will the performing air craft get alert? what would PAF response perhaps CAP response could be.

PS: It is absurd but nonetheless it is a possibility.


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## HawkEye27

1Paki$tani said:


> Guys absolute hypothetical perhaps absurd thing.
> 
> Given that Indians are badly bruised as to what happened to them on 27 February 2019 and the fact that they want some face saving and something that perhaps might be quite public. So keeping that in mind what is the possibility that on 23 March 2019 during parade they could come near the border say around poonch sector and lock onto one of the performing fighters and fire salvo of missiles.
> 
> keeping in mind the distance from there to parade ground is around 88km which is well within BVR range?
> 
> If that occur will the performing air craft get alert? what would PAF response perhaps CAP response could be.
> 
> PS: It is absurd but nonetheless it is a possibility.


Chinese Aircraft will be around. They wont risk shooting or even threatening a Chinese Aircraft. China ne kacha kha jana ha India ko.

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## Jinn Baba

1Paki$tani said:


> Guys absolute hypothetical perhaps absurd thing.
> 
> Given that Indians are badly bruised as to what happened to them on 27 February 2019 and the fact that they want some face saving and something that perhaps might be quite public. So keeping that in mind what is the possibility that on 23 March 2019 during parade they could come near the border say around poonch sector and lock onto one of the performing fighters and fire salvo of missiles.
> 
> keeping in mind the distance from there to parade ground is around 88km which is well within BVR range?
> 
> If that occur will the performing air craft get alert? what would PAF response perhaps CAP response could be.
> 
> PS: It is absurd but nonetheless it is a possibility.



1) PAF jets will be on CAP near the border to deal with whatever IAF sends.

2) Chinese jets + foreign dignitaries present at the fly past. 

3) What is shown at the parade/fly past is only a very small proportion of the armed forces. Majority is available to fight in case of misadventures by IAF.

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## Oruc

JFThunderBlock3 said:


> Sir, US made range 150km however the variant China did work on was 400km
> curious which one we got ?


pl 15 us made?


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## untitled

1Paki$tani said:


> S: It is absurd but nonetheless it is a possibility.


No country wants to be directly blamed for sabotaging an event where there is international presence. So you can safely dismiss the idea of the IAF attacking the parade

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## 1Paki$tani

Jinn Baba said:


> 1) PAF jets will be on CAP near the border to deal with whatever IAF sends.
> 
> 2) Chinese jets + foreign dignitaries present at the fly past.
> 
> 3) What is shown at the parade/fly past is only a very small proportion of the armed forces. Majority is available to fight in case of misadventures by IAF.



I take that but I believe their Radar could identify which air craft is being targeted and PAF CAP will not engage IAF planes if they are in Indian side, from where they can easily lock and fire missiles from and than return back to safe distance. 

Questions also is not about targeting any major military hardware but rather public display if they are able to do that and successfully hit a plane. Remember they had rather public embarrassment for their downed plane as well.


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## Oruc

1Paki$tani said:


> Guys absolute hypothetical perhaps absurd thing.
> 
> Given that Indians are badly bruised as to what happened to them on 27 February 2019 and the fact that they want some face saving and something that perhaps might be quite public. So keeping that in mind what is the possibility that on 23 March 2019 during parade they could come near the border say around poonch sector and lock onto one of the performing fighters and fire salvo of missiles.
> 
> keeping in mind the distance from there to parade ground is around 88km which is well within BVR range?
> 
> If that occur will the performing air craft get alert? what would PAF response perhaps CAP response could be.
> 
> PS: It is absurd but nonetheless it is a possibility.


I think CAP and Awacs will be monitering the area closely. Apart from these I heard many foreign delegations are attending the parade. So endangering those might not be a good prospect for india.


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## ziaulislam

GumNaam said:


> no they never said that he's not indian. even the indian media isn't that stupid...


I was watching india today live on that night after the tweets (supposedly to be least delusional channel) and they were saying that for half an hour that this is fake video 

Later when same channel youtube video of abhi came on social media they start use the word " apparently "

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## Jinn Baba

GumNaam said:


> no they never said that he's not indian. even the indian media isn't that stupid...



Not sure about their media, but the likes of Twitter and Indian forums were full of claims that IAF pilots do not have facial hair.



1Paki$tani said:


> I take that but I believe their Radar could identify which air craft is being targeted and PAF CAP will not engage IAF planes if they are in Indian side, from where they can easily lock and fire missiles from and than return back to safe distance.
> 
> Questions also is not about targeting any major military hardware but rather public display if they are able to do that and successfully hit a plane. Remember they had rather public embarrassment for their downed plane as well.



PAF AWACS would see the Indians coming well before they are close enough to launch BVR missiles. The flypast also includes AWACS so they too will see any aircraft or missiles approaching.

And dont forget - the CAP would be flying very close to the border and will be better positioned to take on the IAF aircraft, then IAF would be to take on aircraft in the flypast much further away.

Finally, even if Indians manage to launch a few AAMs, they would be launched at their max range; and all the PAF flypast aircraft have to do is fly in the opposite direction until the missiles run out of steam.

Now what you're suggesting COULD happen, but is unlikely to. Either was, I'm sure the PAF would have done its assessments and be prepared.

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## TheDarkKnight

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated, tested and in-service. This is what tension periods do, they bring plans to execution. PAF now has a credible BVR deterrent that goes beyond anything US can provide. More good news to follow. Sit tight.


Well that means we also have newer radars installed on JF17s now to fully utilize pl15 range?

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## airomerix

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.




Post on Page 1 of this thread.

Sort of found it funny and ironic.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheDarkKnight said:


> Well that means we also have newer radars installed on JF17s now to fully utilize pl15 range?


Sky is the limit....



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated, tested and in-service. This is what tension periods do, they bring plans to execution. PAF now has a credible BVR deterrent that goes beyond anything US can provide. More good news to follow. Sit tight.



[Moses] said, "...and indeed I think, O Pharaoh, that you are destroyed." (_Kuran-i Kerim_, *17*:102)

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## Rafi

Damn..... That Sam.. She hot.


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## Path-Finder

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated, tested and in-service. This is what tension periods do, they bring plans to execution. PAF now has a credible BVR deterrent that goes beyond anything US can provide. More good news to follow. Sit tight.


Sir, A peck on the right cheek and one on the left 



Rafi said:


> Damn..... That Sam.. She hot.


Which sam?

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## Rafi

Path-Finder said:


> Sir, A peck on the right cheek and one on the left
> 
> 
> Which sam?



?


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## Path-Finder

Rafi said:


> ?


_Damn..... That Sam.. She hot. _ <this one


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## Rafi

Path-Finder said:


> _Damn..... That Sam.. She hot. _ <this one



Just an admirer, of beauty.....she was on my mind, nuff said, hopefully in the Near future, we will see her strutting her bad self. That is if her management team think she has enough experience.

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## Oruc

Now I see whats the fuss about oneliners. 

pure torture.


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## TheDarkKnight

Rafi said:


> Just an admirer, of beauty.....she was on my mind, nuff said, hopefully in the Near future, we will see her strutting her bad self. That is if her management team think she has enough experience.


Sir zara asaan lafzooon ma samjha dain.

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## Bilal Khan 777

TheDarkKnight said:


> Well that means we also have newer radars installed on JF17s now to fully utilize pl15 range?



Block 3. Right now, the long range terminal guidance is via AEW.

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## Khafee

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Block 3. Right now, the long range terminal guidance is via AEW.


@MastanKhan @Tps43 @Signalian @Mentee Pls Note

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## Safriz

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Block 3. Right now, the long range terminal guidance is via AEW.


So we fanboys are not always wrong 
(Ignore the range, read the section about guidance)
This is what i wrote on 14th March , as pure guess ..on my FB page ..




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1962889993823175

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## Signalian

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Block 3. Right now, the long range terminal guidance is via AEW.


This capability was seen in Gripen and F-16 as AWACS could guide their Aim-120's after launch and the aircraft returned back after firing BVR AAM's

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## MastanKhan

Jinn Baba said:


> A Chinese source would be a lot more credible.
> 
> Anyway, aren't the Chinese too busy building these for the PLAAF? They are more likely to prioritise their own air forces needs over PAF.



Hi,

Right now---for the Chinese---the Paf is a priority---if Paf wins---Plaaf wins---.

Paf is in a 'hot test bed ' status right now---.



tipu_ssw said:


> Its not just the avionics and missile. We need aircraft performance to enhance the missile ranges. Both for PL-12 & PL-15



Hi,

The Paf just proved otherwise---. It is all about avionics and missiles---.

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## Thorough Pro

Why disclose it already, I was hoping we can down 4/5 more mighty MKI's



Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Already integrated

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## ziaulislam

GumNaam said:


> @ do tayyaray gir gaye to shusma swaraj nay Quran ki ayetain pardi, aur tayyaray girja tay to modi hafiz ban ja tay kashmir kay madrassay say nikal tay huya dikhai day tay!
> 
> Anwar Maqsood's still got it man!!!


inkey badqismati key imran khan ko nahin jantey!


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## Thorough Pro

To my Pakistani brothers, a long range BVR with 300-400 km range completes another key offensive capability that everyone overlooked/missed ASM/ASAT..... take them out and you render their GPS guided missiles and munitions useless, battlefield spying/monitoring blinded, nuke launches detection neutralized, satellite communication a thing of the past …….





Thorough Pro said:


> Why disclose it already, I was hoping we can down 4/5 more mighty MKI's

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## The Accountant

TheDarkKnight said:


> Well that means we also have newer radars installed on JF17s now to fully utilize pl15 range?


No ... we can still use it at full potential for bigger targets such as awacs and tankers

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## Maxpane

very informative thread

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## Bratva

India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor

*Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*

*https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?

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## The Eagle

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*



They will try & there is no doubt. Modi & his fascist company ego is not just bruised but defeated on every level. Elections are near & till then, Modi gang has the chance to brag about some achievement which is only possible through another intrusion etc. Remember, Indian Media has already taken over the minds & thoughts of populace in last episode hence, all Modi needs is just a smaller case to non-stop lies & pump up their masses to vote him heavily. 

From Pakistan side, the message is already conveyed & if India chooses to escalate, we might see things out of control for little longer than time lapse of last retaliation and that is for sure. This time, no sparing as PAF did let go 2 of them on 27th Feb, 2019.

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## NA71

and now


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## Jinn Baba

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?



Has the reputation of Su30MKI fallen so low in Indian's eyes, that they are resorting to using JF17, F16, and now F15 images and claiming them as their own

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## Evora

nahmed71 said:


> and now
> View attachment 547910


Indian will never do it again. They already get befitting responce from Pakistan with interest. They will think twice before any further aggression.





I think this is the video of 2nd iaf fighter shot down by PAF where they lost two pilots

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## alphibeti

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?


We are not scared at all. Let them resort to aggression once more and this time we'll retaliate a devastating response. Coward Indians wouldn't have had any courage to return had Pak hit the real targets rather than mock ones on 27 Feb in Indian occupied J&K and also drowned two of their best subs the following week. Let Modi indulge in misadventure once more, we'll humiliate him and his gang of sick minded terrorists much more than before, inshaAllah.


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## Fawad alam

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?


Things can go ugly, because Modi is in trouble now and as per my Indian friends the effect of last military conflict is diluted due to effective social media campaign of opposition parties.

We need to be vigilant because Modi can do anything to win the elections and they have only Anti Pakistan card on the table and no other thing to show to public as government performance.



Jinn Baba said:


> F15 images


Correct

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## NA71

Evora said:


> Indian will never do it again. They already get befitting responce from Pakistan with interest. They will think twice before any further aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is the video of 2nd iaf fighter shot down by PAF where they lost two pilots


it is bound to happen....They have thought it twice as you said....actually thy are running out of options....they will try, at least, to hinder March 23 day parade by creating non-conducive environment.


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## Slides

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?



That twitter account is an obvious propaganda account. It gets a lot of details wrong and has shared fake news before. FYI.


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## TsAr

Thorough Pro said:


> To my Pakistani brothers, a long range BVR with 300-400 km range completes another key offensive capability that everyone overlooked/missed ASM/ASAT..... take them out and you render their GPS guided missiles and munitions useless, battlefield spying/monitoring blinded, nuke launches detection neutralized, satellite communication a thing of the past …….


Mind hsaring which BVR has range of 300-400 km?


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## HRK

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?


@Tps43 .... 

If this news is true than its second such attempt form the border of Gujarat

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## Evora

nahmed71 said:


> it is bound to happen....They have thought it twice as you said....actually thy are running out of options....they will try, at least, to hinder March 23 day parade by creating non-conducive environment.


In this scenario if they attack on 23rd march then we will have enough justification for biggest surprise it can be first nuclear strike to quite them once and forever.

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## NA71

Evora said:


> In this scenario if they attack on 23rd march then we will have enough justification for biggest surprise it can be first nuclear strike to quite them once and forever.


bro choosing March 23 will not be wise decision rather doing it well before say 20~21 ...causing parade postponement. and what requires an incursion of 1 or 2km and return.

if, Allah Rehm karey, that happenes....Indian media will take it to sky....


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## alphibeti

Evora said:


> In this scenario if they attack on 23rd march then we will have enough justification for biggest surprise it can be first nuclear strike to quite them once and forever.


Hold your ground, kid. Indians, not Pakistanis, will jump to nuclear blackmail sooner than anyone can expect. We've pummeled their azz hard and they couldn't do a bit in response. When things get a bit more intense, Modi will find himself and his gang helplessly out of options while getting sever beating. They will resort to blackmail global community by threatening with nukes against Pak.


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## NA71

let see how our senior members take on this latest development. someone is telling on s/media that India is trying to stretch the air battle to rajhistan border....what is the significance of it ?


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## Windjammer

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?


They tried these tactics during 2002 stand off when up to 25 Indian aircraft would fly towards the border in a threatening manner and then just turn around. Back then PAF was weak. No Block-52s, JF-17s or BVR capability. Still the Indians didn't have the courage to challenge PAF.
Now they are in a shock after getting badly mauled. The IAF will never confront PAF, however to salvage their tattered reputation, they may go after some soft target and then make usual song and dance about it....but that will be their biggest mistake.

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## SQ8

They are checking our defenses continuously and also trying to ascertain which approach and timing is best to try and hit again.
Their package and tactics have been refined with input from certain suppliers of theirs. 

For Modi its now beyond the election and unless he loses his re-election; this is now a constant threat for us.
It will be a matter of who can sustain this alert tempo for longer, and unless our side can optimize their intel and alert status to allow for sustained response levels as today; India is the endurance runner in this race.



Windjammer said:


> They tried these tactics during 2002 stand off when up to 25 Indian aircraft would fly towards the border in a threatening manner and then just turn around. Back then PAF was weak. No Block-52s, JF-17s or BVR capability. Still the Indians didn't have the courage to challenge PAF.
> Now they are in a shock after getting badly mauled. The IAF will never confront PAF, however to salvage their tattered reputation, they may go after some soft target and then make usual song and dance about it....but that will be their biggest mistake.


This time they want a kill since their morale has been dragged along the mud- their pilots are hungry for kills and going at their leadership.
Again, just like us their TACDE grads are damn good pilots; and they have been tasked to get a F-16 or more kills than us.

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## Riz

Windjammer said:


> They tried these tactics during 2002 stand off when up to 25 Indian aircraft would fly towards the border in a threatening manner and then just turn around. Back then PAF was weak. No Block-52s, JF-17s or BVR capability. Still the Indians didn't have the courage to challenge PAF.
> Now they are in a shock after getting badly mauled. The IAF will never confront PAF, however to salvage their tattered reputation, they may go after some soft target and then make usual song and dance about it....but that will be their biggest mistake.


Currently they dont have BVR that can be compatible with AMRAAMs, PAF surprised them, they are still in shock, now they trying to show some stunts to there janta.. Look how fast we can fly our jets . Face saving tactics nothing more


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## The Accountant

Evora said:


> In this scenario if they attack on 23rd march then we will have enough justification for biggest surprise it can be first nuclear strike to quite them once and forever.


Dont behave like indians .. have some senses ...

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## zulu

Does not we maintain posture over 10 months back in 2001-2 ??? what u think u can maintain it longer?One of reason i think our forces in kinda battle situation (that so called war on terror) we in that situation in last 18 years may it one of reason for us ? 



Oscar said:


> They are checking our defenses continuously and also trying to ascertain which approach and timing is best to try and hit again.
> Their package and tactics have been refined with input from certain suppliers of theirs.
> 
> For Modi its now beyond the election and unless he loses his re-election; this is now a constant threat for us.
> It will be a matter of who can sustain this alert tempo for longer, and unless our side can optimize their intel and alert status to allow for sustained response levels as today; India is the endurance runner in this race.
> 
> 
> This time they want a kill since their morale has been dragged along the mud- their pilots are hungry for kills and going at their leadership.
> Again, just like us their TACDE grads are damn good pilots; and they have been tasked to get a F-16 or more kills than us.


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## Oruc

I think this problem will not end with elections. Their media has set a standard in people's mind. So be it BJP or congress they will face a public pressure to take on Pakistan. Pakistan will have to build up its defences. They are trying now and they will keep trying.

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## Windjammer

Oscar said:


> This time they want a kill since their morale has been dragged along the mud- their pilots are hungry for kills and going at their leadership.
> Again, just like us their TACDE grads are damn good pilots; and they have been tasked to get a F-16 or more kills than us.


They may very well try and they may also succeed but remember, earlier we just replied to their misadventure and PAF or other services are in no mood to roll over and die.
PN was to deliver the real surprise but just as well things didn't go that far.

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## HawkEye27

Windjammer said:


> They may very well try and they may also succeed but remember, earlier we just replied to their misadventure and PAF or other services are in no mood to roll over and die.
> PN was to deliver the real surprise but just as well things didn't go that far.


My bet is that they will go for a soft target like the Atlantic in 1999. They may target a C-130 or IL-78

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## Maxpane

very dangerous time

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## ziaulislam




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## Arsalan 345

i believe they want to bomb air fields.they want to kill our men and pressure is mounting on india.remember they wanted to attack karachi with their missiles.i think they want to attack karachi at all cost.this will be a big boost for modi election campaign but any attack on karachi will escalate and it will be out of control.
india seriously thinking about attacking pakistan from all possible directions.indian navy presence in arabian ocean means real threat.they are serious.after balakot, they realized that they can attack pakistan.

you can say that after balakot,fear of pakistani air space violation is ended. indian citizens,they support modi and most of them want modi to take decisive action against pakistan.

pakistan should better prepare for an all out war.this big strike package means attack on air bases.they want to annihilate paf bases before paf jets can scramble.they want to destroy our air bases so that they can start cold start.their army and navy is waiting to attack but not before air force strike.this is very critical situation.

all those pakistani members who think that they will not do anything are wrong.india wants pakistan.india wants to destroy pakistan and this is the best chance. i believe that they want all out war because they already know that pakistan will retaliate and hence,they are prepared for escalation.

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## MastanKhan

Thorough Pro said:


> To my Pakistani brothers, a long range BVR with 300-400 km range completes another key offensive capability that everyone overlooked/missed ASM/ASAT..... take them out and you render their GPS guided missiles and munitions useless, battlefield spying/monitoring blinded, nuke launches detection neutralized, satellite communication a thing of the past …….



Hi,

It is not a 300-400 KM range BVR---it is more like 150KM range---

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## Arsalan 345

look at that. at least two similar early warning planes or tankers. one plane transponder off.


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## CaptainNemo

I believe our senior military leadership is also wary of this, hence the continued airspace ban on the east side.
Anyone breaching will be dealt with immediately. Hopefully sanity will prevail in chai wala's dimagh.


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## NA71

Don't worry.... Allah plans better. Have faith...They failed and will fail again....InshAllah.

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## Arsalan 345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108371466691756033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108400467804123137

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## Evora

all three chiefs and joint chief met with prime minister IK

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## The Eagle

Oscar said:


> They are checking our defenses continuously and also trying to ascertain which approach and timing is best to try and hit again.
> Their package and tactics have been refined with input from certain suppliers of theirs.
> 
> For Modi its now beyond the election and unless he loses his re-election; this is now a constant threat for us.
> It will be a matter of who can sustain this alert tempo for longer, and unless our side can optimize their intel and alert status to allow for sustained response levels as today; India is the endurance runner in this race.
> 
> 
> This time they want a kill since their morale has been dragged along the mud- their pilots are hungry for kills and going at their leadership.
> Again, just like us their TACDE grads are damn good pilots; and they have been tasked to get a F-16 or more kills than us.



Their planning and foreign help cannot be denied. Modi's whole career, ego & the public hype created by Media etc can't let it go like this. Similar to last time when IAF been trying to cross, checking onto reaction time or weak area will continue.

Speaking of revenge even by IAF or Modi can't be ruled out under current circumstances created by India itself. However, How do you see it then after, like IAF again wants to score a kill to make it even or more than what they received?

In my opinion, it will then turn into a cycle/chain reaction like one after another till the time, who can sustain more. Why I feel that any further misadventure, which is possible seeing Indian aggressive posture especially when BJP's politics are on stake, it might escalate further than limited shoot out. Also, most of the foreign Diplomatic parties that reached to de-escalate are currently silent & as we aren't reading any update except for aggressive maneuvers by India. Just today, PM met Chiefs from Three Services & CJCSC which tells that things aren't pretty much calm or may be, there was discussion for further retaliation if India tries yet another misadventure.

India will do whatever she has to or especially Modi has to but we will then see what we can do. Though, your words may help further to understand as where both parties are heading.

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## IceCold

Oscar said:


> They are checking our defenses continuously and also trying to ascertain which approach and timing is best to try and hit again.
> Their package and tactics have been refined with input from certain suppliers of theirs.
> 
> For Modi its now beyond the election and unless he loses his re-election; this is now a constant threat for us.
> It will be a matter of who can sustain this alert tempo for longer, and unless our side can optimize their intel and alert status to allow for sustained response levels as today; India is the endurance runner in this race.
> 
> 
> This time they want a kill since their morale has been dragged along the mud- their pilots are hungry for kills and going at their leadership.
> Again, just like us their TACDE grads are damn good pilots; and they have been tasked to get a F-16 or more kills than us.



Pardon my ignorance but what does TACDE refers too? And what makes them better than the likes of Abinandan?

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## HRK

IceCold said:


> Pardon my ignorance but what does TACDE refers to?


http://indianairforce.nic.in/content/tactics-air-combat-development-establishment

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## NA71

Indian media quoting Mr. Divol is not comfortable with current situation he is pressing for more punishment to Pak. there are voices within BJP suggesting for de-escalation.


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## Oruc

Arsalan 345 said:


> look at that. at least two similar early warning planes or tankers. one plane transponder off.


I dont think PAF would send these planes so close to border.


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## CodeforFood

Strife said:


> I dont think PAF would send these planes so close to border.


In the recent conflict, the part that is more worrying is the eye in the space of our global overlords. They must have assessed the mobilization of Pakistan assets and established a pattern. Looking at the belligerence shown by India post incursions, I am pretty sure they are being fed that info. There is a reason for their confidence it seems..
I hope I am wrong though...
If the forces that be in Asia wants to flourish and act as deterrent it would be wise to come up with a way to blur that eye in the sky. Rather quickly too...


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## Tps43

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?


They are doing these tactics almost on daily basis 
In last 10 days they are coming near to Ib/loc then go back


HRK said:


> @Tps43 ....
> 
> If this news is true than its second such attempt form the border of Gujarat


they won’t sit quite but at least for this week They won’t do any misadventure

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## Path-Finder

Arsalan 345 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108371466691756033
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108400467804123137



I think it's best to declare state of Emergency! If they want to play then time to meet them head on.

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## Mrc

Path-Finder said:


> I think it's best to declare state of Emergency! If they want to play then time to meet them head on.




I m hoping 500 cruise missiles will take off this time and sack their airbases and aircraft carrier...

They can continue fighting without airforce than


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## alphibeti

Arsalan 345 said:


> i believe they want to bomb air fields.they want to kill our men and pressure is mounting on india.remember they wanted to attack karachi with their missiles.i think they want to attack karachi at all cost.this will be a big boost for modi election campaign but any attack on karachi will escalate and it will be out of control.
> india seriously thinking about attacking pakistan from all possible directions.indian navy presence in arabian ocean means real threat.they are serious.after balakot, they realized that they can attack pakistan.
> 
> you can say that after balakot,fear of pakistani air space violation is ended. indian citizens,they support modi and most of them want modi to take decisive action against pakistan.
> 
> pakistan should better prepare for an all out war.this big strike package means attack on air bases.they want to annihilate paf bases before paf jets can scramble.they want to destroy our air bases so that they can start cold start.their army and navy is waiting to attack but not before air force strike.this is very critical situation.
> 
> all those pakistani members who think that they will not do anything are wrong.india wants pakistan.india wants to destroy pakistan and this is the best chance. i believe that they want all out war because they already know that pakistan will retaliate and hence,they are prepared for escalation.


How could you get that Pak will be a sitting duck? Why your half-dead brain couldn't think of a brutal Pak response to any Indian aggression, big or small, today, after a week or a month. If they can try taking out our air bases then we have MashaAllah a much better capability to go, take control of their air space, and destroy their bases and divisional HQs, kill scores of pigs, and safely return. You coward better bury your head in sand and stay in peace. Don't spread your shit here in public.



CaptainNemo said:


> I believe our senior military leadership is also wary of this, hence the continued airspace ban on the east side.
> Anyone breaching will be dealt with immediately. Hopefully sanity will prevail in chai wala's dimagh.


Did you see pictures of today's meeting in Islamabad. Our leaders are relaxed and it looks like an informal meeting. We are not wary of anything, least of all a coward terrorist like Modi who can murder only unarmed innocent people. We are calm but vigilant. We don't want to appear as aggressors but we are determined to break the jaws of any aggressor. We are watching with eagle eye and ready to attack with eagle's maneuvering. Let Modi push himself in disgrace and we'll humiliate him even more. InshaAllah.



nahmed71 said:


> Indian media quoting Mr. Divol is not comfortable with current situation he is pressing for more punishment to Pak. there are voices within BJP suggesting for de-escalation.


Punishment? We kicked Indian *** and busted it in the air and ground. Tell him come again, we are ready to f**k him again.

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## Vortex

alphibeti said:


> How could you get that Pak will be a sitting duck? Why your half-dead brain couldn't think of a brutal Pak response to any Indian aggression, big or small, today, after a week or a month. If they can try taking out our air bases then we have MashaAllah a much better capability to go, take control of their air space, and destroy their bases and divisional HQs, kill scores of pigs, and safely return. You coward better bury your head in sand and stay in peace. Don't spread your shit here in public.
> 
> 
> Did you see pictures of today's meeting in Islamabad. Our leaders are relaxed and it looks like an informal meeting. We are not wary of anything, least of all a coward terrorist like Modi who can murder only unarmed innocent people. We are calm but vigilant. We don't want to appear as aggressors but we are determined to break the jaws of any aggressor. We are watching with eagle eye and ready to attack with eagle's maneuvering. Let Modi push himself in disgrace and we'll humiliate him even more. InshaAllah.
> 
> 
> Punishment? We kicked Indian *** and busted it in the air and ground. Tell him come again, we are ready to f**k him again.



Bhai Sahab, Arslan is talking about their plan. Unless I didn’t understood properly his message, I don’t think he is talking about us being sitting duck.

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## alphibeti

Path-Finder said:


> I think it's best to declare state of Emergency! If they want to play then time to meet them head on.


Why? What do you get out of that? Can that deter Modi? Just prepare you fist solid and more solid. We cannot fall prey to Modi's blackmail. Let it come if he really wants it.

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## Dil Pakistan

Combine all the posts on this page - PAF exercise to land and take off from motorways makes sense.


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## alphibeti

Vortex said:


> Bhai Sagan, Arslan is talking about their plan. Unless I didn’t understood properly his message, I don’t think he is talking about us being sitting duck.


Yeah that's fine. And thanks for pointing that out. But what I don't like is even senior members lose hope so quick. I saw people cursing our military, especially PAF, after IAF cowardly dropped a few SOWs from within 4-5 KM of our side of LoC. That is how the keyboard warriors behave. Countries behave based on their capabilities. Pakistan has hammered Modi's *** real hard and proved its capabilities. He's been wishing for Rafales after that (SUs, MKs, and Bisons found severly lacking) but I think some other powers are pushing that idiot onto a collision course. When someone (read Modi) is determined to suicide, should we start licking his filthy feet to avoid that? No way. War is bad. But if Modi is ignoring that, we then have to fight one. You like it or not. Or surrender. Remember after botched Indian aggression of 26 Feb, Indians were talking loud of a 'new norm' in Indo-Pak equation. Pakistan has pushed that new norm into Modi's *** and only the smoke is coming out now. That is certainly a new norm. Isn't it?

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## Vortex

alphibeti said:


> Yeah that's fine. And thanks for pointing that out. But what I don't like is even senior members lose hope so quick. I saw people cursing our military, especially PAF, after IAF cowardly dropped a few SOWs from within 4-5 KM of our side of LoC. That is how the keyboard warriors behave. Countries behave based on their capabilities. Pakistan has hammered Modi's *** real hard and proved its capabilities. He's been wishing for Rafales after that (SUs, MKs, and Bisons found severly lacking) but I think some other powers are pushing that idiot onto a collision course. When someone (read Modi) is determined to suicide, should we start licking his filthy feet to avoid that? No way. War is bad. But if Modi is ignoring that, we then have to fight one. You like it or not. Or surrender. Remember after botched Indian aggression of 26 Feb, Indians were talking loud of a 'new norm' in Indo-Pak equation. Pakistan has pushed that new norm into Modi's *** and only the smoke is coming out now. That is certainly a new norm. Isn't it?



Don’t Forget one thing bhai sahab, we are all human each one with its own forces and weaknesses. Sometimes I myself go down. And we need in this particular situation the help of each other, the sort of help with words which can help us to bring back the spirit, the hope and finally the most important: the thrust in our Armed Forces by the grace of Allah.

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## Arsalan 345

Vortex said:


> Bhai Sahab, Arslan is talking about their plan. Unless I didn’t understood properly his message, I don’t think he is talking about us being sitting duck.



true.i am talking about their plan.they are ready for escalation.this current bjp government is mad. alphibeti called me coward hahahahaha.lol

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## alphibeti

Arsalan 345 said:


> true.i am talking about their plan.they are ready for escalation.this current bjp government is mad. alphibeti called me coward hahahahaha.lol


Sorry man. I take my words back. Fine? We are bros. Pakistanis. Alright?

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## SQ8

zulu said:


> Does not we maintain posture over 10 months back in 2001-2 ??? what u think u can maintain it longer?One of reason i think our forces in kinda battle situation (that so called war on terror) we in that situation in last 18 years may it one of reason for us ?


The loss to our economy then and spares supply was bad as it will be now.

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## zulu

Neither by choice than nor by choice now 


Oscar said:


> The loss to our economy then and spares supply was bad as it will be now.


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## SQ8

The Eagle said:


> Their planning and foreign help cannot be denied. Modi's whole career, ego & the public hype created by Media etc can't let it go like this. Similar to last time when IAF been trying to cross, checking onto reaction time or weak area will continue.
> 
> Speaking of revenge even by IAF or Modi can't be ruled out under current circumstances created by India itself. However, How do you see it then after, like IAF again wants to score a kill to make it even or more than what they received?
> 
> In my opinion, it will then turn into a cycle/chain reaction like one after another till the time, who can sustain more. Why I feel that any further misadventure, which is possible seeing Indian aggressive posture especially when BJP's politics are on stake, it might escalate further than limited shoot out. Also, most of the foreign Diplomatic parties that reached to de-escalate are currently silent & as we aren't reading any update except for aggressive maneuvers by India. Just today, PM met Chiefs from Three Services & CJCSC which tells that things aren't pretty much calm or may be, there was discussion for further retaliation if India tries yet another misadventure.
> 
> India will do whatever she has to or especially Modi has to but we will then see what we can do. Though, your words may help further to understand as where both parties are heading.


Having beaten into their populous back when there wasn’t internet access that they performed better in the air everytime in previous conflicts; they want to maintain their image now that they are trying to pomp and show to the world.



zulu said:


> Neither by choice than nor by choice now


Choice is irrelevant; economics are



IceCold said:


> Pardon my ignorance but what does TACDE refers too? And what makes them better than the likes of Abinandan?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactics_and_Air_Combat_Development_Establishment

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## aliyusuf

Oscar said:


> The loss to our economy then and spares supply was bad as it will be now.



This is the main reason why all this is happening, in my humble opinion. Those who are egging Modi on to go this route have an agenda that is not related to Modi's election chances but to put a sustained burden on Pakistan's economy by keeping the tensions up and forcing Pakistan to keep diverting resources on keeping the heightened state of alert and readiness and also to subsequently diminish investment prospects due to the tensions in the region. To impede Pakistan's economic recovery and force Pakistan to look inwards and keep on looking inwards to stabilize itself, so that it doesn't become a threat in the future with an improved economy. India can better sustain all this economically. But it too may start feeling the brunt of economic slow down eventually. Hope they come to their senses. This is not serving either nation in the longer run.

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## Arsalan 345

alphibeti said:


> Sorry man. I take my words back. Fine? We are bros. Pakistanis. Alright?



yes i am pakistani. it's true that attack on pak air bases is not easy but we must protect our assets and we all know about paf,we are doing great.there is a danger of attack.i hate india so much that i can't explain it in words.modi is a psychopath.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108441004179443718

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## Mace

aliyusuf said:


> This is the main reason why all this is happening, in my humble opinion. Those who are egging Modi on to go this route have an agenda that is not related to Modi's election chances but to put a sustained burden on Pakistan's economy by keeping the tensions up and forcing Pakistan to keep diverting resources on keeping the heightened state of alert and readiness and also to subsequently diminish investment prospects due to the tensions in the region. To impede Pakistan's economic recovery and force Pakistan to look inwards and keep on looking inwards to stabilize itself, so that it doesn't become a threat in the future with an improved economy. India can better sustain all this economically. But it too may start feeling the brunt of economic slow down eventually. Hope they come to their senses. This is not serving either nation in the longer run.



From india’ POV this is the best circumstances to pile pressure on Pak fragile economy to see visible reductions in militancy emanating from Pak. 

Easy way out for Pak: close extremist elements under cover of FATF requirements. 

Yes, if this continues the overall end result is reversal of economic growth in the region.


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## The Eagle

Mace said:


> close extremist elements



India is less of our concern in regard to this area. Pakistan is currently in coordination with the world powers. India has full of its own backyard with same cancer & it's matter of time that how it's turn back to the host. Spare us this modi kind of lecture. 

Regards,

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## Mace

The Eagle said:


> India is less of our concern in regard to this area. Pakistan is currently in coordination with the world powers. India has full of its own backyard with same cancer & it's matter of time that how it's turn back to the host. Spare us this modi kind of lecture.
> 
> Regards,



Barely matters to India if you are coordinating with world or corrective actions are taken on your own, the end result India is looking for elimination of militancy emanating from Pak.


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## The Eagle

Mace said:


> Barely matters to India if you are coordinating with world or corrective actions are taken on your own, the end result India is looking for elimination of militancy emanating from Pak.



We don't care whether India is looking or not and nor are we interested to read about this chest thumping. India is merely trying to score some fame in this domain. Modi and gang can discuss that for votes and election inside India. Pakistan has already made the case very clear. The only thing which matters, is nonstop Indian propaganda which too taught us the way to deal with it. Reference, busted lies during last so-called strike. 

Thank you but please. 

Regards,

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## Thorough Pro

"More punishment" ?

It was Pakistan who punished them for crossing the border




MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is not a 300-400 KM range BVR---it is more like 150KM range---





nahmed71 said:


> Indian media quoting Mr. Divol is not comfortable with current situation he is pressing for more punishment to Pak. there are voices within BJP suggesting for de-escalation.


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## maverick1977

aliyusuf said:


> This is the main reason why all this is happening, in my humble opinion. Those who are egging Modi on to go this route have an agenda that is not related to Modi's election chances but to put a sustained burden on Pakistan's economy by keeping the tensions up and forcing Pakistan to keep diverting resources on keeping the heightened state of alert and readiness and also to subsequently diminish investment prospects due to the tensions in the region. To impede Pakistan's economic recovery and force Pakistan to look inwards and keep on looking inwards to stabilize itself, so that it doesn't become a threat in the future with an improved economy. India can better sustain all this economically. But it too may start feeling the brunt of economic slow down eventually. Hope they come to their senses. This is not serving either nation in the longer run.




I am of the same opinion... India knows that this is the best chance pakiatan has got under Imran Khan ... if somehow they can destabilize his efforts Pakistan will never be able to sustain a war against them and will become a subservient state ... if imran can wrangle this and pakiatan is economically prosperous, then India will meet its demise

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## Mace

The Eagle said:


> during





The Eagle said:


> We don't care whether India is looking or not and nor are we interested to read about this chest thumping. India is merely trying to score some fame in this domain. Modi and gang can discuss that for votes and election inside India. Pakistan has already made the case very clear. The only thing which matters, is nonstop Indian propaganda which too taught us the way to deal with it. Reference, busted lies during last so-called strike.
> 
> Thank you but please.
> 
> Regards,



Then what exactly does FATF wants from Pak? Why are you shuttering the madrasas?


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## Arsalan 345

Mace said:


> Then what exactly does FATF wants from Pak? Why are you shuttering the madrasas?



previous governments did nothing and india did well diplomatically.you still don't have any proof against these organizations except UN designated terrorist organizations.as i said earlier,you did well diplomatically.pakistan can or can't take action.samjhuta blast terrorist are now free so don't expect any action.we will handle FATF.we will improve the image of our country.

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## GumNaam

Arsalan 345 said:


> previous governments did nothing and india did well diplomatically.you still don't have any proof against these organizations except UN designated terrorist organizations.as i said earlier,you did well diplomatically.pakistan can or can't take action.samjhuta blast terrorist are now free so don't expect any action.we will handle FATF.we will improve the image of our country.


No madrassah is being touched or down. gongla sharif used people like mullahs and liberals to play both side of the fence including masood azhar so therefore did nothing but take a nap on the NAP (National Action Plan) and masood azhar returned the favor by providing the pmln patvaris with the needed street power. recall that nawaz was instrumental in getting him released and sheltered. Now that Imran Khan is in power, he gonna take away one of the major sources of pmln's street power while not touching or harming the true madrassahs regardless of much india cries like a baby. india shot itself and its own closest ally nawaz sharif in the bungholes by conducting a false flag attack of pulwama and pointing fingers at JeM.

PHULEEZ vote4modi!

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## The Accountant

Mace said:


> From india’ POV this is the best circumstances to pile pressure on Pak fragile economy to see visible reductions in militancy emanating from Pak.
> 
> Easy way out for Pak: close extremist elements under cover of FATF requirements.
> 
> Yes, if this continues the overall end result is reversal of economic growth in the region.


Stop this non sense terrorisim allegation ... start investing on kashmiri give them what the want they will stop fighting back

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## CodeforFood

Mace said:


> From india’ POV this is the best circumstances to pile pressure on Pak fragile economy to see visible reductions in militancy emanating from Pak.
> 
> Easy way out for Pak: close extremist elements under cover of FATF requirements.
> 
> Yes, if this continues the overall end result is reversal of economic growth in the region.


You would think that it is just that, but it is not. You are being used as pawns in the war game. i hope this don't spirals out of control or else we all will be paying a price at the global level unfortunately.


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## NA71

The Accountant said:


> Stop this non sense terrorisim allegation ... start investing on kashmiri give them what the want they will stop fighting back


EXACTLY, the BJP backed RSS terrorists have now beating Kashmiris in particular on the streets on Banglore,Dehli etc and they are expecting things will go down in Kashmir. Ex-Raw Cheif admitted that "*the valley is slipping out of our hands. Even school going kids shouting and pelting us. Militarily, its gone. However, If we want it back talk to Pakistan."
*
So madrassahs have nothing to do with this....Indian attitude towards Kashmiris is the core.

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## IceCold

HRK said:


> http://indianairforce.nic.in/content/tactics-air-combat-development-establishment


Their history mostly is all about 71 war with Pakistan as per the link with Mig-21 and 27. So my question who flies the SU-30? Considering this to be their elite pilots and as per @Oscar damn good ones so shouldnt they be flying the best specially when they are tasked to take out our best.........Th F-16?


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## Arsalan

Bratva said:


> India is again prodding Pakistan Air defenses with large Airstrike packages under the guise of Mock drills. Last night, a strike package of 24 aircraft flew close to International Border in Indian Gujarat. It seems India is gonna do some mischief once again as 27 is approaching first. @Bilal Khan 777 @Tps43 @Hodor @HRK @Windjammer @The Eagle @Arsalan @Maarkhoor
> 
> *Indian fighter jet on Pak border for second time in 5 days*
> 
> *https://aajtak.intoday.in/gallery/i...-banaskantha-pakistan-border-tst-1-31593.html*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108208805068701696*
> IAF AND IN are coordinating their activities. Is it possible, IAF will distract PAF and IN will attack Pakistan ?


They want F-16 or any PAF bird at least. They will keep on trying to provoke us and may even cross the border to do so. On our side, its more about a test of nerves of the military leadership. They need to stand ground, not get provoked but don't get pushed to the corner either. So far we have done EXCELLENT and the world have seen it.

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## SQ8

IceCold said:


> Their history mostly is all about 71 war with Pakistan as per the link with Mig-21 and 27. So my question who flies the SU-30? Considering this to be their elite pilots and as per @Oscar damn good ones so shouldnt they be flying the best specially when they are tasked to take out our best.........Th F-16?


Su-30s arent all Elite pilots

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## The Accountant

Arsalan said:


> They want F-16 or any PAF bird at least. They will keep on trying to provoke us and may even cross the border to do so. On our side, its more about a test of nerves of the military leadership. They need to stand ground, not get provoked but don't get pushed to the corner either. So far we have done EXCELLENT and the world have seen it.


But arent they taking too much of risk ... They can have a bloody nose once again ...

One thing is for sure now they will come with a huge punch ... A much bigger strike package and as it will be surprise therefore, we will not be able to put much of the aircraft for defence ... However, we can use tactics of our own like putting a moveable SAM without radar being on and whenever we get something in radar then attack via SAM as a surprise ...

We have to improvise the situation ...

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## Arsalan

The Accountant said:


> But arent they taking too much of risk ... They can have a bloody nose once again ...
> 
> One thing is for sure now they will come with a huge punch ... A much bigger strike package and as it will be surprise therefore, we will not be able to put much of the aircraft for defence ... However, we can use tactics of our own like putting a moveable SAM without radar being on and whenever we get something in radar then attack via SAM as a surprise ...
> 
> We have to improvise the situation ...


YES!! In case of another combat they too may lose another aircraft, that will only add to the humiliation. That is why they talked about missile options but it was countered by a strong statement of intent from Pakistan side. Now if they do attack and lose another aircraft, i will say that battle will continue till they shoot down PAF jets too (more than they lose) and make sure they have enough material to do an extensive propaganda about "victory". But before any of it, they will hope that we get provoked and cross the line, that way the blame will be on us.

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## The Accountant

Arsalan said:


> YES!! In case of another combat they too may lose another aircraft, that will only add to the humiliation. That is why they talked about missile options but it was countered by a strong statement of intent from Pakistan side. Now if they do attack and lose another aircraft, i will say that battle will continue till they shoot down PAF jets too (more than they lose) and make sure they have enough material to do an extensive propaganda about "victory". But before any of it, they will hope that we get provoked and cross the line, that way the blame will be on us.



Our boys has to keep the calm ... indians arr really behaving like dogs

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## Mrc

The Accountant said:


> One thing is for sure now they will come with a huge punch ... A much bigger strike package




And response to that may also be dispropotianately much bigger

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## The Accountant

Mrc said:


> And response to that may also be dispropotianately much bigger


Yes but the will be response later on as it is highly unlikely that a strike package of 24 aircrafts can be countered with a sizeable number on the spot as we can put a small number on active duty at a given point of time ...

Furthermore, a retaliation can get into a trap as well ...

What I am saying that we have to consider all type of possibilities and have to be vigilant ...

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## Mrc

The Accountant said:


> Yes but the will be response later on as it is highly unlikely that a strike package of 24 aircrafts can be countered with a sizeable number on the spot as we can put a small number on active duty at a given point of time ...
> 
> Furthermore, a retaliation can get into a trap as well ...
> 
> What I am saying that we have to consider all type of possibilities and have to be vigilant ...




Sure... 

When i said disproportionate escalated response... That meant alot more severe escalation than what is shown in response this time .. 

Its not an easy path but you are right they are dying for another go

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## maverick1977

Not a fear monger, but something is brewing, Pakistan should be extra vigilant 

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1934075/1-us-remains-concerned-tensions-pakistan-india-official/


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## HRK

IceCold said:


> Their history mostly is all about 71 war with Pakistan as per the link with Mig-21 and 27. So my question who flies the SU-30? Considering this to be their elite pilots and as per @Oscar damn good ones so shouldnt they be flying the best specially when they are tasked to take out our best.........Th F-16?


obviously has not posted about tactics of their modern jets but in simple and plain form its specialised branch of IAF tasked to develop tactics related to aerial warfare

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## araz

1Paki$tani said:


> Guys absolute hypothetical perhaps absurd thing.
> 
> Given that Indians are badly bruised as to what happened to them on 27 February 2019 and the fact that they want some face saving and something that perhaps might be quite public. So keeping that in mind what is the possibility that on 23 March 2019 during parade they could come near the border say around poonch sector and lock onto one of the performing fighters and fire salvo of missiles.
> 
> keeping in mind the distance from there to parade ground is around 88km which is well within BVR range?
> 
> If that occur will the performing air craft get alert? what would PAF response perhaps CAP response could be.
> 
> PS: It is absurd but nonetheless it is a possibility.


Bhai 
Only a few fighters take part in the displays. The rest are ready ans waiting. Any incursion on the 23rd will be an act of War and will be responded to accordingly. The response would be lethal and massive. No one repeat no one should be in two minds about it. Even if the Indian leadership is mad( I dont think they are) the forces know fully well what a stupidity at this juncture would invite from the Pak defence apparatus.
A

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## araz

alphibeti said:


> How could you get that Pak will be a sitting duck? Why your half-dead brain couldn't think of a brutal Pak response to any Indian aggression, big or small, today, after a week or a month. If they can try taking out our air bases then we have MashaAllah a much better capability to go, take control of their air space, and destroy their bases and divisional HQs, kill scores of pigs, and safely return. You coward better bury your head in sand and stay in peace. Don't spread your shit here in public.
> 
> 
> Did you see pictures of today's meeting in Islamabad. Our leaders are relaxed and it looks like an informal meeting. We are not wary of anything, least of all a coward terrorist like Modi who can murder only unarmed innocent people. We are calm but vigilant. We don't want to appear as aggressors but we are determined to break the jaws of any aggressor. We are watching with eagle eye and ready to attack with eagle's maneuvering. Let Modi push himself in disgrace and we'll humiliate him even more. InshaAllah.
> 
> 
> Punishment? We kicked Indian *** and busted it in the air and ground. Tell him come again, we are ready to f**k him again.


Bhai.
Relax and dont shoot your BP through the roof. They are ready and we are ready. They have some backing and we have backing. However when it comes to a fight it is always A vs B. All the other parties sit back and see how it plays out
It is a difficuly situation from every perspective. I am hoping that better sense will prevail but it doesnt always do so. Whether this upstaged aggression will be a cause for cancellation of Indian elections remains to be seen
As long as Modi remains there is a fear for a war. The best answer to him is to let the elctions happen so he gets defeated.
A



Mace said:


> From india’ POV this is the best circumstances to pile pressure on Pak fragile economy to see visible reductions in militancy emanating from Pak.
> 
> Easy way out for Pak: close extremist elements under cover of FATF requirements.
> 
> Yes, if this continues the overall end result is reversal of economic growth in the region.


If you think Paklands can smuggle ammo. Incite youth into frank rebellion and send people to guide them through the worlds best guarded border then you need to fire your whole border se urity force on IOK. This is a classic case of diverting attention from the real problem in Kashmir by creating a scapegoat of international terrorism from Pakistan when truely this is an indigenous movement which has taken the life of 120,000 people in Kashmir. However this will come back to haunt you as Pakistan will notbow to Indian pressure. Once the elections happen we may have a more receptive Government able to look at the whole situation holistically and try and negotiate for peace with the people of Kashmir. Your defeat on the political and media front has been so stark it has led the whole world to think twice regards its strategy vis a vis the region. 
We understand the fingers that is currently manipulating the puppet of Modi even as they fortify their own house. Rest assured you wont do anything and it will lead to a resonse which will be befitting.
A

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## JamD

araz said:


> Bhai.
> Relax and dont shoot your BP through the roof. They are ready and we are ready. They have some backing and we have backing. However when it comes to a fight it is always A vs B. All the other parties sit back and see how it plays out
> It is a difficuly situation from every perspective. I am hoping that better sense will prevail but it doesnt always do so. Whether this upstaged aggression will be a cause for cancellation of Indian elections remains to be seen
> As long as Modi remains there is a fear for a war. The best answer to him is to let the elctions happen so he gets defeated.
> A


I certainly hope that we are at least trying to ensure that Modi loses for the good of the entire world. I am alluding to the Russia model.

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## araz

IceCold said:


> Their history mostly is all about 71 war with Pakistan as per the link with Mig-21 and 27. So my question who flies the SU-30? Considering this to be their elite pilots and as per @Oscar damn good ones so shouldnt they be flying the best specially when they are tasked to take out our best.........Th F-16?


I think this time they will lose both Kashmir and Indian Punjab and we can help establish Khalistan with established right to trade via Pak lands. Then see how they will dance.
A



JamD said:


> I certainly hope that we are at least trying to ensure that Modi loses for the good of the entire world. I am alluding to the Russia model.


If we can keep the war from occuring we have won this battle. If India does not have any excuse for cancelling elections then Modi will lose. However barring concerted Media effort we cannot do more.
A

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## Sulman Badshah

Both R73 seekers are intact ... If R73 would've been fired than seeker is first thing that would've burst into pieces

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## 1Paki$tani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108736366278569985
Comments? MKI? Burning mig?

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## Maxpane

1Paki$tani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108736366278569985
> Comments? MKI? Burning mig?


wooooooow


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## ghazi768

Arsalan said:


> YES!! In case of another combat they too may lose another aircraft, that will only add to the humiliation. That is why they talked about missile options but it was countered by a strong statement of intent from Pakistan side. Now if they do attack and lose another aircraft, i will say that battle will continue till they shoot down PAF jets too (more than they lose) and make sure they have enough material to do an extensive propaganda about "victory". But before any of it, they will hope that we get provoked and cross the line, that way the blame will be on us.


Although possible but I think it is not probable, they will not launch an aerial strike unless they have decided to start a full. Mostly it will be a futile exercise to entice our aircraft to their side of border.
More danger now is that they will now launch ground incursions inside Kashmir over LOC most probably way up in north, where they can concentrate more infantry and it is difficult and time taking to bring reinforcements in men and material therefore providing ample time to execute smaller excursions.

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## SABRE

Sulman Badshah said:


> Both R73 seekers are intact ... If R73 would've been fired than seeker is first thing that would've burst into pieces
> 
> View attachment 548094



What is the source of this image?


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## Bilal Khan 777

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> You bad old man,you are scaring off our future tea guests from East.



Whatever PAF did to them, whats public and what is still private, they will remain deterred. PAF has effectively shown, through better planning, judgement, and a bit of luck, that Indian Air Force developments and acquisitions are null and void, for now. How much time do they take to recover? Rafael is taking to Tejas, and as soon as they come up with something, they will call me. By that time, PAF's other cards will be mature and flying.



1Paki$tani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108736366278569985
> Comments? MKI? Burning mig?



MKI in vertical spin AND on fire.



Sulman Badshah said:


> Both R73 seekers are intact ... If R73 would've been fired than seeker is first thing that would've burst into pieces
> 
> View attachment 548094



Well, for AAMs, the seeker survives and you find it after the engagement. However, it is about the location where you find it that matters. If all four of these were found with the aircraft, then R73 was not fired from this Mig21. The question remains if Abhi was flying the Mig-21 or Su-30?

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## GumNaam

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Whatever PAF did to them, whats public and what is still private, they will remain deterred. PAF has effectively shown, through better planning, judgement, and a bit of luck, that Indian Air Force developments and acquisitions are null and void, for now. How much time do they take to recover? Rafael is taking to Tejas, and as soon as they come up with something, they will call me. By that time, PAF's other cards will be mature and flying.
> 
> 
> 
> MKI in vertical spin AND on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for AAMs, the seeker survives and you find it after the engagement. However, it is about the location where you find it that matters. If all four of these were found with the aircraft, then R73 was not fired from this Mig21. The question remains if Abhi was flying the Mig-21 or Su-30?


I take your opinion very seriously bro, your like, one of the few people who is considered as being in the "know" and authoritative, *are you sure that this is an mki in a verticle spin or are you just mockin' the indians (wouldn't blame you if you did)*? And I'm still finding it hard to believe the abhi none done was the mig21 pilot. I've already posted a 2011 documentary the iaf su30s where he is flying the su30. It is very difficult to digest that a pilot of such an advance aircraft would be stiffed with the mig21. I could see him going to mig29 or mirage2000, but come on, a mig21??? after all the capabilities he has supposedly achieved? that's like stiffing an f22 raptor pilot with the 60s f4 phatom!

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

The Accountant said:


> Our boys has to keep the calm ... indians arr really behaving like dogs


He who stands up with anger sits down in loss - a Turkish saying

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## HRK

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> The question remains if Abhi was flying the Mig-21 or Su-30?


Abi was definitely flying MiG-21 as following is the recovered survival kit checklist form Abhinandan which is showing the serial number of downed MiG-21

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## CriticalThought

HRK said:


> Abi was definitely flying MiG-21 as following is the recovered survival kit checklist form Abhinandan which is showing the serial number of downed MiG-21
> View attachment 548287



It doesn't have Abhinandan's name on it anywhere...


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## HawkEye27

CriticalThought said:


> It doesn't have Abhinandan's name on it anywhere...


The list belongs to aircraft, not abhinandan

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## Xeson

tipu_ssw said:


> The list belongs to aircraft, not abhinandan


Also since its recovered for him as he is the captured one I don't think he would have been exchanging docs with other fellows (if any from other jet/jets) on the way down lol


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## CriticalThought

tipu_ssw said:


> The list belongs to aircraft, not abhinandan



Exactly. Which is why this is not proof that he is the Mig-21 pilot. Now if there is video proof of Abhi giving up these exact same documents then we can make the deduction.

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## GriffinsRule

CriticalThought said:


> Exactly. Which is why this is not proof that he is the Mig-21 pilot. Now if there is video proof of Abhi giving up these exact same documents then we can make the deduction.


No that is exactly the proof of what he was flying.

PS, need to send AFM the picture of the 4 AAMs ... as per their latest issue, they are putting an F-16D down in their attrition list as a probable (why not an F-16B is anyones guess).

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## waraich66

ISPR GEN. Said : JF 17 used in combat but both pilots belong to SQ 9, which is F 16 squadron ? 

Can any friend from PAF confirm , please ... 

I am proud , My Uncle Ft lt. Hameed Asghar shaheed 1971 war was fighter pilot .

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## BHarwana

waraich66 said:


> ISPR GEN. Said : JF 17 used in combat but both pilots belong to SQ 9, which is F 16 squadron ?
> 
> Can any friend from PAF confirm , please ...
> 
> I am proud , My Uncle Ft lt. Hameed Asghar shaheed 1971 war was fighter pilot .


From where you got this info that it was SQ 9?


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## Signalian

BHarwana said:


> From where you got this info that it was SQ 9?


people having links with military know its 9th Sqd which made the kills

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## BHarwana

Signalian said:


> people having links with military know its 9th Sqd which made the kills


My link told me other wise. So we cannot believe links here over official word. My link is bigger than the link of people. I was told it was JF-17 on national TV by DGISPR. So my friend please enlighten me whose link is more credible. I have disclosed my link do people care to disclose their link for the sake of credibility here?

Jokes apart but why would we send F-16 to intercept a Jet that Elta 8222 Jammer? 

Pakistan Knew the capabilities of Indian Mig-21 Bison from a friendly nation in Middle east and we knew how to tackle them years back. JF-17 was the solution designed for this purpose I can prove it to you.

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## Canuck786

BHarwana said:


> My link told me other wise. So we cannot believe links here over official word. My link is bigger than the link of people. I was told it was JF-17 on national TV by DGISPR. So my friend please enlighten me whose link is more credible. I have disclosed my link do people care to disclose their link for the sake of credibility here?
> 
> Jokes apart but why would we send F-16 to intercept a Jet that Elta 8222 Jammer?
> 
> Pakistan Knew the capabilities of Indian Mig-21 Bison from a friendly nation in Middle east and we knew how to tackle them years back. JF-17 was the solution designed for this purpose I can prove it to you.


Can you please provide a little bit more details for the novice in me?


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## Comet

Signalian said:


> people having *links *with military know its 9th Sqd which made the kills






BHarwana said:


> My link told me other wise. So we cannot believe links here over official word. My link is bigger than the link of people. I was told it was JF-17 on national TV by DGISPR. So my friend please enlighten me whose link is more credible. I have disclosed* my link *do people care to disclose their *link* for the sake of credibility here?





My Links tell me it's all a hoax created by the Freemason. 
That day, it was Santa in the skies of Kashmir dropping gifts with Parachutes attached. 

My Links are the best.

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## Signalian

BHarwana said:


> My link told me other wise. So we cannot believe links here over official word. My link is bigger than the link of people. I was told it was JF-17 on national TV by DGISPR. So my friend please enlighten me whose link is more credible. I have disclosed my link do people care to disclose their link for the sake of credibility here?
> 
> Jokes apart but why would we send F-16 to intercept a Jet that Elta 8222 Jammer?
> 
> Pakistan Knew the capabilities of Indian Mig-21 Bison from a friendly nation in Middle east and we knew how to tackle them years back. JF-17 was the solution designed for this purpose I can prove it to you.





Comet said:


> My Links tell me it's all a hoax created by the Freemason.
> That day, it was Santa in the skies of Kashmir dropping gifts with Parachutes attached.
> 
> My Links are the best.



I'm not bothered, believe what you want.


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## waraich66

BHarwana said:


> From where you got this info that it was SQ 9?


I am doubtful about info source .


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## Bilal Khan 777

GumNaam said:


> I take your opinion very seriously bro, your like, one of the few people who is considered as being in the "know" and authoritative, *are you sure that this is an mki in a verticle spin or are you just mockin' the indians (wouldn't blame you if you did)*? And I'm still finding it hard to believe the abhi none done was the mig21 pilot. I've already posted a 2011 documentary the iaf su30s where he is flying the su30. It is very difficult to digest that a pilot of such an advance aircraft would be stiffed with the mig21. I could see him going to mig29 or mirage2000, but come on, a mig21??? after all the capabilities he has supposedly achieved? that's like stiffing an f22 raptor pilot with the 60s f4 phatom!



Anything is possible, but we look for whats probable. To my eyes, this looks like a classic 2 seater Sukhoi type aircraft in vertical spin. I enclose an image of similar situation.

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## Comet

Signalian said:


> I'm not bothered, believe what you want.


It was joke sire....


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## Signalian

Comet said:


> It was joke sire....


There is a professional on this forum. BilalKhan777.
Check his posts. You will find he congratulated 9th Squadron the next morning.

Although he is not from where i got information, but it just became a confirmation for me.

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## BHarwana

Canuck786 said:


> Can you please provide a little bit more details for the novice in me?


Pakistan evaluated Mig 21 in a middle eastern nation against Pakistani F-7 to see the capabilities of Soviet origin Mig-21 over F-7 and we have been doing this for very long time because Mig-21 is the interceptor that India has and is basically the first jet Pakistan will face while performing any mission over Indian air space. JF-17 was designed to deter this threat effectively and engage Indian Air Superiority threat of SU-30MKI and Mirage 2000 in an electronic warfare environment. As know from recent Indian media reports that Pakistan has deployed its F-16 After February engagements and this is the proof here. India on one hand claim that Pakistan has deployed F-16 recently and on the other hand claims that we were using them before. Here is evidence in IAF own statement that Pakistan just deployed F-16 and IAF needs more ammo.

*Stories*



IAF asks for fresh ammo as Pakistan moves up 
F16s, takes terror camps to FATA

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## Cornered Tiger

F-16s are normally deployed for CAPs. JF-17s from No.14 and 16 were the part of strike package along with Mirages from No.25

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## The Accountant

BHarwana said:


> Pakistan evaluated Mig 21 in a middle eastern nation against Pakistani F-7 to see the capabilities of Soviet origin Mig-21 over F-7 and we have been doing this for very long time because Mig-21 is the interceptor that India has and is basically the first jet Pakistan will face while performing any mission over Indian air space. JF-17 was designed to deter this threat effectively and engage Indian Air Superiority threat of SU-30MKI and Mirage 2000 in an electronic warfare environment. As know from recent Indian media reports that Pakistan has deployed its F-16 After February engagements and this is the proof here. India on one hand claim that Pakistan has deployed F-16 recently and on the other hand claims that we were using them before. Here is evidence in IAF own statement that Pakistan just deployed F-16 and IAF needs more ammo.
> 
> *Stories*
> 
> View attachment 548311
> 
> IAF asks for fresh ammo as Pakistan moves up
> F16s, takes terror camps to FATA


Agreed but F16s were present at that day , they were not involved in bombing or escort mission but was on backup plan deep inside our air space to support if things get hot which eventually went ... Remember it was PAF planned mission and PAF was dictating the rules of engagement ...

When DG ISPR stated that F16s not involved in today's assault he was right as F16s were not part of strike package but they can be on air defence operations ...

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## Secret Service

BHarwana said:


> From where you got this info that it was SQ 9?


Its true. Griffins made all the kills that day.

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## GumNaam

The Accountant said:


> Agreed but F16s were present at that day , they were not involved in bombing or escort mission but was on backup plan deep inside our air space to support if things get hot which eventually went ... Remember it was PAF planned mission and PAF was dictating the rules of engagement ...
> 
> When DG ISPR stated that F16s not involved in today's assault he was right as F16s were not part of strike package but they can be on air defence operations ...


well said, good point.

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## Comet

secretservice said:


> Its true. Griffins made all the kills that day.


S/L Hassan Siddiqui is credited with at-least 1 Kill that day. Shortly after the kill, the pilot and his ground crew were shown in a video chanting Pakistan Zindabad standing near J-17. So, if S/L Hassan made the kill, he probably did it in JF-17.

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## BHarwana

The Accountant said:


> Agreed but F16s were present at that day , they were not involved in bombing or escort mission but was on backup plan deep inside our air space to support if things get hot which eventually went ... Remember it was PAF planned mission and PAF was dictating the rules of engagement ...
> 
> When DG ISPR stated that F16s not involved in today's assault he was right as F16s were not part of strike package but they can be on air defence operations ...



There were 3 engagements that day. JF-17 package was in north. The F-16 package was over okara Sahiwal sector and Bhawalpur sector. Yes there were other assets deployed that day from AWACS to surveillance and ground coordination team. Such missions have very extended tails. F-16s were there on back up from being in air to fueled and loaded on runways. I agree.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

If F-16 is true it may be related to Exxon Mobil, which is also Texas based as is Lockheed Martin...

Imran Bey is a Bahtiyar fellow - my main line of arguement....

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## SorryNotSorry

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Anything is possible, but we look for whats probable. To my eyes, this looks like a classic 2 seater Sukhoi type aircraft in vertical spin. I enclose an image of similar situation.
> View attachment 548307
> 
> View attachment 548308
> 
> View attachment 548309


The trailing edge of the wings is dead straight. It’s either a Mig 21, F-16 or a Mirage.


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## SQ8

SorryNotSorry said:


> The trailing edge of the wings is dead straight. It’s either a Mig 21, F-16 or a Mirage.


Or just debris. Not sure how in such a pixelated section of the image you made out trailing edge angles.. biased speculation galore

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## SorryNotSorry

Oscar said:


> Or just debris.


Could be. 
To my eyes I see a fuselage and wings.


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## SQ8

SorryNotSorry said:


> Could be.
> To my eyes I see a fuselage and wings.


We are all biased in our vision

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## Sine Nomine

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Whatever PAF did to them, whats public and what is still private, they will remain deterred. PAF has effectively shown, through better planning, judgement, and a bit of luck, that Indian Air Force developments and acquisitions are null and void, for now. How much time do they take to recover? Rafael is taking to Tejas, and as soon as they come up with something, they will call me. By that time, PAF's other cards will be mature and flying.


Nodoubt Sir,PAF has done more then nation has given.I am sure BLK 3 would turn Rafael bootless.

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## The Accountant

SorryNotSorry said:


> The trailing edge of the wings is dead straight. It’s either a Mig 21, F-16 or a Mirage.


I never knew Mig21, F16 and Mirrage are twin engined ... Thanks for updating the history of world aviation

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## SorryNotSorry

The Accountant said:


> I never knew Mig21, F16 and Mirrage are twin engined ... Thanks for updating the history of world aviation


Where are the two engines?
I think I must be due for an eye test.


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## SQ8

SorryNotSorry said:


> Where are the two engines?
> I think I must be due for an eye test.


I don’t see engines or anything- just what appears to be a triangular piece that resembles a Sukhoi or Mirage airframe.

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## BHarwana

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Nodoubt Sir,PAF has done more then nation has given.I am sure BLK 3 would turn Rafael bootless.



You are correct. The problem which faces India in this era is that Pakistan has mid-gap package ready before transition to 5th-Gen.

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## Comet

Guys!
Someone showed me these badges from PAF. Are these legit? Why is there a Su-30MKI on these?


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## 1Paki$tani

Oscar said:


> I don’t see engines or anything- just what appears to be a triangular piece that resembles a Sukhoi or Mirage airframe.



The non enhanced version seems to show SU 30, while the enhanced version seems to show Mirage making a left hand turn. 

Viewing the image on computer actually distorts the image. As it was taken on a phone it should be viewed on phone and on phone it is a bet between SU 30 or Mirage 2000. Though my initial assumption was SU-30 based on the first view.


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## GumNaam

Comet said:


> Guys!
> Someone showed me these badges from PAF. Are these legit? Why is there a Su-30MKI on these?


Here's why...

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## Taha Samad

khanasifm said:


> View attachment 541788
> 
> 
> View attachment 541789
> 
> 
> View attachment 541790





GumNaam said:


> Here's why...
> View attachment 548327



Can anyone explain how is this image is being classified as SU-30? I mean its so low res...


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## Secret Service

Comet said:


> Guys!
> Someone showed me these badges from PAF. Are these legit? Why is there a Su-30MKI on these?





Taha Samad said:


> Can anyone explain how is this image is being classified as SU-30? I mean its so low res...



It is very difficult to comprehend. but look at its size even at high altitude, nose down design, big flames of fire from engines, it gives many clues.


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## 1Paki$tani

Taha Samad said:


> Can anyone explain how is this image is being classified as SU-30? I mean its so low res...


It low res on the pc, but view this one phone and it seems to be SU-30, as it has all of the hallmarks of su-30.

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## The Accountant

Here is a digitally enhanced version ... apparently its a mirrage ... cant be mig for sure however if we consider the size of the plane and assume that due to missile hit and fire vertical and horizental stabilizer were damaged than its su 30 ... considering the inclination in nose its more likely a su30 with damaged stabilizers ... in any case its not f16 coz f16 do not have curved nose

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## NA71

SorryNotSorry said:


> Where are the two engines?
> I think I must be due for an eye test.



I used Image forensic tools ...it is definitely Mirage ...single engine/straight Delta/no trail.


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## The Accountant

I reviewed it once again and its definitely a mirrage


NA71 said:


> I used Image forensic tools ...it is definitely Mirage ...single engine/straight Delta/no trail.


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## Mrc

Mirage has straight nose... 

One thing is for sure .. Nose is angled downward compared to body


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## ACE OF THE AIR

The Accountant said:


> Here is a digitally enhanced version ... apparently its a mirrage ... cant be mig for sure however if we consider the size of the plane and assume that due to missile hit and fire vertical and horizental stabilizer were damaged than its su 30 ... considering the inclination in nose its more likely a su30 with damaged stabilizers ... in any case its not f16 coz f16 do not have curved nose


It is definitely SU-30.

The delta wing design illusion in the picture is caused because of fire smoke and stalled airflow.

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## Oruc

Nose looks clearly curved downwards.


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## Mrc

ACE OF THE AIR said:


> view this link and pause at 9




Repost video please not working








Its this aircraft which has such a nose curve in relation to body

Body and wings are in fire probably partly broken .. U cannot say any thing apart from nose making an angled curve with body

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## Comet

GumNaam said:


> Here's why...
> View attachment 548327


is this a still or is it taken from some video. if it's from video, can you post a link to that video?


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## surge

SABRE said:


> What is the source of this image?


There is a screenshot from a viral video.


ACE OF THE AIR said:


> It is definitely SU-30.
> 
> The delta wing design illusion in the picture is caused because of fire smoke and stalled airflow.
> view this link and pause at 9 se
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


 Cant see video, please reupload


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## Windjammer

The nose looks too narrow for a Mirage-2000, the SU-30 stabilisers seems to be missing.
If anything, the image resembles the Israeli Kfir Fighter jet .

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## CriticalThought

Oscar said:


> Or just debris. Not sure how in such a pixelated section of the image you made out trailing edge angles.. biased speculation galore



Aaloo ka paratha logic galore in this thread

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## Slides

The Accountant said:


> Here is a digitally enhanced version ... apparently its a mirrage ... cant be mig for sure however if we consider the size of the plane and assume that due to missile hit and fire vertical and horizental stabilizer were damaged than its su 30 ... considering the inclination in nose its more likely a su30 with damaged stabilizers ... in any case its not f16 coz f16 do not have curved nose



It's piece of the Mig-21 wing. At least that's what I see.

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## Oruc

Windjammer said:


> The nose looks too narrow for a Mirage-2000, the SU-30 stabilisers seems to be missing.
> If anything, the image resembles the Israeli Kfir Fighter jet .


I think stablizer on the right is visible while left one is in flames or shred away. If we take it for mirage then nose is very long as compared to the body and wings apart from crookedness.


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## Windjammer

Guys you have overlooked another possibility. What you seeing is not the nose but wing with aircraft's nose on fire and it's like pulling up.

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## usman012

Windjammer said:


> Guys you have overlooked another possibility. What you seeing is not the nose but wing with aircraft's nose on fire and it's like pulling up.
> 
> 
> View attachment 548383


It clearly a Su-30Mki .Not a mirage 2000 or any other aircraft .Mirage 2000 does not have such large cone in the front .

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## aliyusuf

Windjammer said:


> Guys you have overlooked another possibility. What you seeing is not the nose but wing with aircraft's nose on fire and it's like pulling up.
> 
> 
> View attachment 548383


To me the only thing that might point it towards making it an Su-30, is the proportion of the frame silhouette i.e. the length of the nose section and the apparent wing-span … although not too clear but the closest match is the Su-30 in my humble opinion.

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## graphican

Windjammer said:


> Guys you have overlooked another possibility. What you seeing is not the nose but wing with aircraft's nose on fire and it's like pulling up.
> 
> 
> View attachment 548383



Vertical direction of flames indicate aircraft if falling down almsot horizontally. Su-30 can stabilise itself horizontally.

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## araz

The Accountant said:


> Agreed but F16s were present at that day , they were not involved in bombing or escort mission but was on backup plan deep inside our air space to support if things get hot which eventually went ... Remember it was PAF planned mission and PAF was dictating the rules of engagement ...
> 
> When DG ISPR stated that F16s not involved in today's assault he was right as F16s were not part of strike package but they can be on air defence operations ...


Agreed in totality.
A

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## Windjammer

I think this is the video of the aircraft in the image. 






__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## CriticalThought

View attachment 548327


Right, time to use logic people. The image is too blurry to reveal the shape of the object. So let us think what happens when a fighter jet is hit by a missile. We have pictorial examples of MIG-21.

Next, let's look at the type of fire raging on the object. This is a constantly fed flame, where fuel is constantly burning because heat and oxygen are available. If this had been a direct missile strike, then given the size of the flame, this craft would have exploded into bits. This shows that either a proximity fuse caused limited damage, or an engine failure, or the remotest possibility that this was a gun kill, but please don't quite me on the last one. Most probably, this was a heat seeker that exploded in the proximity of the engine, causing limited puncturing, leading to fuel leaking out from high pressure consistently, thus creating the flame.

The picture easily fits a Mg-21 hit from the side, aft of the wings, with the front section detaching from the rest. The angle is consistent with a craft whose pieces we expect to fall in a forward motion, leaving behind a track, just like the Mig-21.

Of course I could be very wrong in all of this so I encourage refutations based on solid logic and evidences.

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## The Accountant

Mig21 wing is not so pointy ... how could it be that pointy ?


Slides said:


> It's piece of the Mig-21 wing. At least that's what I see.


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## Mrc

Why would tip on a wing be making angle with the body??


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## Alpha BeeTee

I think it's a crow.

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## Trailer23

My only question/issue is to why the PAF/ISPR been so silent on the proof up until today...

Their Minister of Defense, Nirmala Sita...something...something has been on a tirade about a F-16 been shot down.

It should be a matter of public record for the World to know and see as to what happened. India has long history of lying through their teeth about their so-called achievements to date.

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## Jinn Baba

Opened a thread for this video, but think it should also be posted here. Watch at 42s - see what plane PAF shows shooting down another in WVR combat in a video covering the recent conflict:

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## HawkEye27

Trailer23 said:


> My only question/issue is to why the PAF/ISPR been so silent on the proof up until today...
> 
> Their Minister of Defense, Nirmala Sita...something...something has been on a tirade about a F-16 been shot down.
> 
> It should be a matter of public record for the World to know and see as to what happened. India has long history of lying through their teeth about their so-called achievements to date.


Any attempt to expose Indians will escalate the situation which we dont want

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## Mrc

Trailer23 said:


> My only question/issue is to why the PAF/ISPR been so silent on the proof up until today.




They also did not claim mi 17 and 3rd jet that went down in badgam... 

Those who need to know ....... Know

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## HawkEye27

Windjammer said:


> I think this is the video of the aircraft in the image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Why so less smoke


----------



## CriticalThought

Windjammer said:


> I think this is the video of the aircraft in the image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



If this was merely debris, the human user filming the video would have the natural inclination of trying to capture other pieces. The background voices indicate people watching a single piece falling, consistent with the type of intonations a sub-continental person would make as a single object gradually falls from the sky.

The object seems to have considerable stability, shifting from an inclined profile to horizontal one. Also, the rotation puts to rest the Mig-21 theory because this craft didn't land in a straight line. I could be very wrong though.


----------



## Windjammer

Trailer23 said:


> My only question/issue is to why the PAF/ISPR been so silent on the proof up until today...
> 
> Their Minister of Defense, Nirmala Sita...something...something has been on a tirade about a F-16 been shot down.
> 
> It should be a matter of public record for the World to know and see as to what happened. India has long history of lying through their teeth about their so-called achievements to date.


It's said that the government is in a bit of a dilemma as certain friendly country has complained that it's aircraft market has already taken a tumble and revealing all officially will make matters worse.

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## Oruc

Jinn Baba said:


> Opened a thread for this video, but think it should also be posted here. Watch at 42s - see what plane PAF shows shooting down another in WVR combat in a video covering the recent conflict:


This is computer generated. You can search JF-17 promotional video on youtube.



CriticalThought said:


> View attachment 548327
> 
> 
> Right, time to use logic people. The image is too blurry to reveal the shape of the object. So let us think what happens when a fighter jet is hit by a missile. We have pictorial examples of MIG-21.
> 
> Next, let's look at the type of fire raging on the object. This is a constantly fed flame, where fuel is constantly burning because heat and oxygen are available. If this had been a direct missile strike, then given the size of the flame, this craft would have exploded into bits. This shows that either a proximity fuse caused limited damage, or an engine failure, or the remotest possibility that this was a gun kill, but please don't quite me on the last one. Most probably, this was a heat seeker that exploded in the proximity of the engine, causing limited puncturing, leading to fuel leaking out from high pressure consistently, thus creating the flame.
> 
> The picture easily fits a Mg-21 hit from the side, aft of the wings, with the front section detaching from the rest. The angle is consistent with a craft whose pieces we expect to fall in a forward motion, leaving behind a track, just like the Mig-21.
> 
> Of course I could be very wrong in all of this so I encourage refutations based on solid logic and evidences.


You might be right sir. Nose section might have broken.


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## Trailer23

Windjammer said:


> It's said that the government is in a bit of a dilemma as certain friendly country has complained that it's aircraft market has already taken a tumble and revealing all officially will make matters worse.


Bro, that certain _friendly_ nation has been in India's camp for decades with all the hugs to prove it. Other than having diplomatic ties, we share nothing in common with them.


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## Jinn Baba

Strife said:


> This is computer generated. You can search JF-17 promotional video on youtube.



Of course it is. 

It's the depiction that I'm referring to. This whole video is about the recent conflict - and it depicts a JF17 shooting down a jet in WVR.


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## Dazzler

digital zoom..

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## Jinn Baba

Dazzler said:


> digital zoom..
> 
> View attachment 548431





Windjammer said:


>

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## NA71

Trailer23 said:


> Bro, that certain _friendly_ nation has been in India's camp for decades with all the hugs to prove it. Other than having diplomatic ties, we share nothing in common with them.



If F-16 was hit and US asked them not to reveal it...what about that scenario?

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## SorryNotSorry

NA71 said:


> I used Image forensic tools ...it is definitely Mirage ...single engine/straight Delta/no trail.


Tail could’ve broken off.


----------



## NA71

Trailer23 said:


> Bro, that certain _friendly_ nation has been in India's camp for decades with all the hugs to prove it. Other than having diplomatic ties, we share nothing in common with them.



If F-16 got hit and US asked them (Indians) not to reveal it...what about that scenario?


SorryNotSorry said:


> Tail could’ve broken off.


 No sir not possible ...Its not like erasing something from a drawing board.


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## HawkEye27

NA71 said:


> If F-16 was hit and US asked them not to reveal it...what about that scenario?



Bhai its quite straight. The phuphi level of our media and shodapan of our awam. We cant hide any kind of debri any where in Pakistan accept tribal areas which remians a controlled zone


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## F86 Saber

Dazzler said:


> digital zoom..
> 
> View attachment 548431


 
It is certainly not a MIG-21, or an F-16. If i was a betting man i would go for SU-30.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

NA71 said:


> If F-16 was hit and US asked them not to reveal it...what about that scenario?


That scenario is called dream.

Su-30 and mig 21 were shot down by jf-17 and helicopter was shot down by Indians themselves.

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## Trailer23

NA71 said:


> If F-16 was hit and US asked them not to reveal it...what about that scenario?


The only difference is that everyone plays by the US rules. Which is why F-16 were not used for the assault on India.

Both India & Pakistan play by their rules because they're the ones who always threaten sanctions on us. And sticking to the topic in hand, an F-16 was not shot down - and the US knows that. The only interest the US has (currently) is pitching the F-21 (F-16) to India from their end because the F-18 Super Hornet isn't even in the frame of conversation/contender.

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## NA71

Trailer23 said:


> The only difference is that everyone plays by the US rules. Which is why F-16 were not used for the assault on India.
> 
> Both India & Pakistan play by their rules because they're the ones who always threaten sanctions on us. And sticking to the topic in hand, an F-16 was not shot down - and the US knows that. The only interest the US has (currently) is pitching the F-21 (F-16) to India from their end because the F-18 Super Hornet isn't even in the frame of conversation/contender.



I was trying to point out that if our F sola got hit and US was asking Indian not to make it to public to save the reputation of Lockheed Martine and its brand F16...India rejected it without giving it a second thought....making it a headline. Similarly, we shotdown, Su30MKI ambassador of that friendly country approached us and asked not to announce it...sale will hurt etc. We, as always, being so submissive, accepted it. despite the fact that it would be like medal of highest performance for PAF for many many yrs to come. That is the difference.


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## Amaa'n

NA71 said:


> I was trying to point out that if our F sola got hit and US was asking Indian not to make it to public to save the reputation of Lockheed Martine and its brand F16...India rejected it without giving it a second thought....making it a headline. Similarly, we shotdown, Su30MKI ambassador of that friendly country approached us and asked not to announce it...sale will hurt etc. We, as always, being so submissive, accepted it. despite the fact that it would be like medal of highest performance for PAF for many many yrs to come. That is the difference.


it was a Transactional arrangement, they gave us something, and we returned the favor.....

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## The Eagle

NA71 said:


> I was trying to point out that if our F sola got hit and US was asking Indian not to make it to public to save the reputation of Lockheed Martine and its brand F16...India rejected it without giving it a second thought....making it a headline. Similarly, we shotdown, Su30MKI ambassador of that friendly country approached us and asked not to announce it...sale will hurt etc. We, as always, being so submissive, accepted it. despite the fact that it would be like medal of highest performance for PAF for many many yrs to come. That is the difference.



If it is the case as you say, a medal wouldn't worth what could have been earned by considering such request. Don't read such matters in isolated manner rather, look at it in broader aspects..... I mean more further or farther than any civilian can think about. Speaking of Honour, these medals are to inform enemy and current success has already made to almost every military out there beside the rival hence, I don't see wearing medal could be more worthy than what can be achieved, more than public stunts. We shouldn't be like rivals that will go gaga for medals only where achievements are known to us by one way or another.

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## The Accountant

NA71 said:


> I was trying to point out that if our F sola got hit and US was asking Indian not to make it to public to save the reputation of Lockheed Martine and its brand F16...India rejected it without giving it a second thought....making it a headline. Similarly, we shotdown, Su30MKI ambassador of that friendly country approached us and asked not to announce it...sale will hurt etc. We, as always, being so submissive, accepted it. despite the fact that it would be like medal of highest performance for PAF for many many yrs to come. That is the difference.


F16 claim is stupidity ...

Su30 mki is not announced coz we dont wanted to escalate it further but do u really think that defence circles dont know the actual outcome then u r living in fools world ... everyone in the defence circle knows the actual outcome and there is no way russia can request pak as these things r not like we internet warrior pretend ...

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## NA71

The Accountant said:


> F16 claim is stupidity ...
> 
> Su30 mki is not announced coz we dont wanted to escalate it further but do u really think that defence circles dont know the actual outcome then u r living in fools world ... everyone in the defence circle knows the actual outcome and there is no way russia can request pak as these things r not like we internet warrior pretend ...


I know ...met a Chinese delegation last week...the first sentence after hello hi, was " how about our JF17 performance?" they were delighted like Chinese have got real treasure. just amazing.



The Eagle said:


> If it is the case as you say, a medal wouldn't worth what could have been earned by considering such request. Don't read such matters in isolated manner rather, look at it in broader aspects..... I mean more further or farther than any civilian can think about. Speaking of Honour, these medals are to inform enemy and current success has already made to almost every military out there beside the rival hence, I don't see wearing medal could be more worthy than what can be achieved, more than public stunts. We shouldn't be like rivals that will go gaga for medals only where achievements are known to us by one way or another.



*Nailed it. *

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## Trailer23

If that's the case, then there is no (further) need to discuss the type of fighter that went down on other Topics, because clearly the evidence is pointed towards a Sukhoi.

I just hope this silence from our end will have a fruitful outcome from this _friendly_ nation (at some point), because to date, they've always sided with our counterparts.

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## alikazmi007

Ghessan said:


> listen to the man AM KK Nohar, if this isn't posted earlier




Classic Foot in the Mouth situation here. As all the missile on board that fatal MIG are accounted for and the proof that Abhi None Done didn't fire diddly squat.

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## NA71

keeping mouth shut may result in 2 sqrdn of Su-35.

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## Trailer23

NA71 said:


> keeping mouth shut may result in 2 sqrdn of Su-35.


That my friend is wishful thinking for keeping our mouth shut.

We have a better chance of procuring more F-16's, but what you mentioned seems highly unlikely for the very reason that India is their largest customer & would do everything including selling their soul to the devil (shouldn't be too hard) from letting that happen.

We need not go that far back in history to recall how India hired a firm to make certain the US Congress to block the Sale of the F-16's a few years back. Or making sure that Sweden not sell any Gripen's to the PAF. Swedish Foreign Minister made that statement before Pervez Musharraf had even arrived in Stockholm.

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## waraich66

Signalian said:


> There is a professional on this forum. BilalKhan777.
> Check his posts. You will find he congratulated 9th Squadron the next morning.
> 
> Although he is not from where i got information, but it just became a confirmation for me.


Agreed , BVR can be fired from 70KM , IAF pilots don't have any idea what happened

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## maverick1977

Trailer23 said:


> That my friend is wishful thinking for keeping our mouth shut.
> 
> We have a better chance of procuring more F-16's, but what you mentioned seems highly unlikely for the very reason that India is their largest customer & would do everything including selling their soul to the devil (shouldn't be too hard) from letting that happen.
> 
> We need not go that far back in history to recall how India hired a firm to make certain the US Congress to block the Sale of the F-16's a few years back. Or making sure that Sweden not sell any Gripen's to the PAF. Swedish Foreign Minister made that statement before Pervez Musharraf had even arrived in Stockholm.




The reawson being, pakistan Ham ko bahut charia karta hay.  loser Govt

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## ziaulislam

Trailer23 said:


> That my friend is wishful thinking for keeping our mouth shut.
> 
> We have a better chance of procuring more F-16's, but what you mentioned seems highly unlikely for the very reason that India is their largest customer & would do everything including selling their soul to the devil (shouldn't be too hard) from letting that happen.
> 
> We need not go that far back in history to recall how India hired a firm to make certain the US Congress to block the Sale of the F-16's a few years back. Or making sure that Sweden not sell any Gripen's to the PAF. Swedish Foreign Minister made that statement before Pervez Musharraf had even arrived in Stockholm.


They have complete division in foreign section to stop Pakistan from procurement of any weapons 
Dont be surprise if in future they start pressuring china based upon their own market to stop our procurements...indigenous production is thus very important

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## Selous

Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.

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## Blue Marlin

@Vergennes your fellow rafale lovers are showing a pic of a spent aim-120 and claim they shot down an f-16.............. still think its a good idea selling rafales to india? how about sending them my way......... just to look at of course and admire its curves. the typhoon is still way better

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## GumNaam

Selous said:


> Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.


Yeah, that scene is from the new Sherdil movie.

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## Jinn Baba

Selous said:


> Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.



@The Eagle @balixd please watch from 1:30 onwards. That shot of the plane blowing up - ever seen that before?


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## GumNaam

Jinn Baba said:


> @The Eagle @balixd please watch from 1:30 onwards. That shot of the plane blowing up - ever seen that before?


bay yar those are just clips from the new sherdil movie that release today.

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## Dr. Strangelove

Selous said:


> Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.


its a cut scene from the movie sherdil.

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## Trailer23

...that and the rest is same old footage that has/is been recycled over & over in various music and promotional vids of the PAF.

I may have found a clip or two that I might use in the video edit I've been working on.

Release date: *27th March, 2019*

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## Jinn Baba

GumNaam said:


> Yeah, that scene is from the new Sherdil movie.



The end scenes are. What about the shoot down from 1:37? I'll check out the trailers now.

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## Selous

Jinn Baba said:


> The end scenes are. What about the shoot down from 1:37? I'll check out the trailers now.


Yeah that does not look like a movie clip.


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## GumNaam

Selous said:


> Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.


oh THAT one...I think that's a mig29 clip that caught on fire during some airshow in europe. I vaguely remember seeing that, looks familiar.


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## Mrc

Dazzler said:


> digital zoom..
> 
> View attachment 548431




Pilots have ejected already...there is no canopy... 

One wing is consumed in fire... Canard has broken off.... This is sukhoi su 30


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## Trailer23

Selous said:


> Yeah that does not look like a movie clip.


From Timecode: *2:30* to *3:01*, it is purely taken from the movie '_Sherdil_'. One can clearly make out from the Post Production work and Colour Correction done in the background. There are also some clips from the Promotional Video (below):


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## Jinn Baba

GumNaam said:


> oh THAT one...I think that's a mig29 clip that caught on fire during some airshow in europe. I vaguely remember seeing that, looks familiar.


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## GumNaam

Jinn Baba said:


>


hey we've been showing the top gun mig-28 (f5) blowing up in PAF songs for the longest friggin' time!


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## ziaulislam

Selous said:


> Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.


they stole fotage from ARY news or was it given on lease..regardless nice song


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## Jinn Baba

GumNaam said:


> hey we've been showing the top gun mig-28 (f5) blowing up in PAF songs for the longest friggin' time!



Lol I know. When I was younger (before internet) I actually thought we had F14s

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## NA71

Trailer23 said:


> That my friend is wishful thinking for keeping our mouth shut.
> 
> We have a better chance of procuring more F-16's, but what you mentioned seems highly unlikely for the very reason that India is their largest customer & would do everything including selling their soul to the devil (shouldn't be too hard) from letting that happen.
> 
> We need not go that far back in history to recall how India hired a firm to make certain the US Congress to block the Sale of the F-16's a few years back. Or making sure that Sweden not sell any Gripen's to the PAF. Swedish Foreign Minister made that statement before Pervez Musharraf had even arrived in Stockholm.


Pakistan may again come forward and sign an agreement with Russians that these 35s will not be used against IAF....and in next Air battle, shoot down Rafale ....ISPR notify again no SU35 used in the ops.....I will watch it ....with my grand kids......hahaha


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## Trailer23

NA71 said:


> Pakistan may again come forward and sign an agreement with Russians that these 35s will not be used against IAF....and in next Air battle, shoot down Rafale ....ISPR notify again no SU35 used in the ops.....I will watch it ....with my grand kids......hahaha


Well, if you're so hell-bent on the theory of seeing Su-35 in PAF livery, I applaud you. I'm not a huge fan of the Sukhoi's, truth be told. I prefer the MiG-35 - but that's a whole different argument.

It doesn't matter what kind of End-User Agreement the PAF would want to consider, those jets are just not an option now or in the distant future.

I'm not trying to put you down by my personal opinion. But hey, if those Su-35's are on the table - see if you can add the S-500 to the wishlist.


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## Code_Geass

Selous said:


> Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.


nice song

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## Secret Service

Trailer23 said:


> If that's the case, then there is no (further) need to discuss the type of fighter that went down on other Topics, because clearly the evidence is pointed towards a Sukhoi.
> 
> I just hope this silence from our end will have a fruitful outcome from this _friendly_ nation (at some point), because to date, they've always sided with our counterparts.


There will be positive effects of our silence. I think not in terms of military hardware rather in the form of investments.


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## alphibeti

Selous said:


> Anybody see PAF's new song, Shaheen-e-Pakistan ? It shows a JF 17 downing a Mirage.


At least a few glimpses of recent shooting down of Indian SU-30, M2K, and Bison by the PAF should have been included in this video. Our leaders are turning into dumbs recently.


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## Selous

This video is doing the rounds on Facebook. Apparently filmed from AJK.




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

NA71 said:


> Pakistan may again come forward and sign an agreement with Russians that these 35s will not be used against IAF....and in next Air battle, shoot down Rafale ....ISPR notify again no SU35 used in the ops.....I will watch it ....with my grand kids......hahaha


We never made this agreement with US and secondly we don't need Su-35 just to deal with Indians.
Thirdly jf-17 made both kills. Indians ki F-16 se bht phat rhi ha.


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## NA71

Selous said:


> This video is doing the rounds on Facebook. Apparently filmed from AJK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


this video shows three streaks of white smoke. two of them with heavy thick while other is lighter.... one more thing, why smoke trail breaks in between?


----------



## Microsoft

Selous said:


> This video is doing the rounds on Facebook. Apparently filmed from AJK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Both planes heading in same direction if one of those is Abhinandan then both planes are trying to cross
to IoK. Someone tell me why PAF f-16 pilot would want to go to IoK after being hit?


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## Selous

NA71 said:


> this video shows three streaks of white smoke. two of them with heavy thick while other is lighter.... one more thing, why smoke trail breaks in between?


When the smoke trails get thick thats the AAMs launching.

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## Shahzaz ud din

*End of story, Kill confirmed Pakistan shot down Indian Su-30 MKI on 27 Feb*
Just look at these kill patches put on by PAF & Turkish air force fighter flyers. There is noting more official then this, that PAF officially confirming "indirectly" that on 27th Feb skirmish in kashmir region pakistan shot down indian SU-30 MKI. Only reason for not openly claiming it is probably the stake of Russians as still pakistan & PAF need to have good relations with Russian and we don't want to give them any real embarrassment that their start fighter flanker shot down by JF 17 Block II.

For people know about armed forces personal, their badges and patches they wear have some real meanings and if your friendly country armed forces personal sporting these kill patches then its some super level of trolling & humiliation which indians just cant expect. Get ready for some "bhajang" of BoycottTurkey from indian side very soon.
Lastly I must say we need to put that MI 17 helicopter kill confirmed too ....
































Advertisement

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## Ali_Baba

The Accountant said:


> Here is a digitally enhanced version ... apparently its a mirrage ... cant be mig for sure however if we consider the size of the plane and assume that due to missile hit and fire vertical and horizental stabilizer were damaged than its su 30 ... considering the inclination in nose its more likely a su30 with damaged stabilizers ... in any case its not f16 coz f16 do not have curved nose



It is an Su30 as the nose way way tooo long to be a Mirage. The Su30 nose does really stick out there.


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## MystryMan

GumNaam said:


> Here's why...
> View attachment 548327


Fire seems quite big. Where would the missile have exploded to cause this?


----------



## maverick1977

NA71 said:


> this video shows three streaks of white smoke. two of them with heavy thick while other is lighter.... one more thing, why smoke trail breaks in between?




That can be attributed to altitude change owing to change in temperature and water condensation doesn’t take place

Mirage 2000 and mig21 are hard to deal with in WVR at high altitudes??? 

can someone share what Indian strategy might be on high altitude wvr with what fighters and what’s their best plane at low altitude wvr combat ?


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## ZedZeeshan

maverick1977 said:


> That can be attributed to altitude change owing to change in temperature and water condensation doesn’t take place
> 
> Mirage 2000 and mig21 are hard to deal with in WVR at high altitudes???
> 
> can someone share what Indian strategy might be on high altitude wvr with what fighters and what’s their best plane at low altitude wvr combat ?


Strategy toa nahi pataa...!


----------



## Microsoft

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.



I guess mig21 can see 500kms since it shot down f-16 too


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## Irfan Baloch

The Accountant said:


> Agreed but F16s were present at that day , they were not involved in bombing or escort mission but was on backup plan deep inside our air space to support if things get hot which eventually went ... Remember it was PAF planned mission and PAF was dictating the rules of engagement ...
> 
> When DG ISPR stated that F16s not involved in today's assault he was right as F16s were not part of strike package but they can be on air defence operations ...


No issue with air defence duties in own space


----------



## Microsoft

Surenas said:


> You seem to have a childish and fanboyish view of the event. They crossed your air space and attacked targets on your soil. They even managed to do that while returning all their jets safely to their bases.
> 
> Now tell me which party has really been embarrassed?



+ Shoot down 2 planes don't forget that part


----------



## ziaulislam

Summary of how indian claims works




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=993226720848037

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## Ahmet Pasha

How do these Indian lifafa journos not have heart attack on TV???
The way they talk any normal human would give themselves a heart attack.

Sadly Pakistani media also thought it a good idea to copy them.


ziaulislam said:


> Summary of how indian claims works
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=993226720848037


----------



## ziaulislam

Ahmet Pasha said:


> How do these Indian lifafa journos not have heart attack on TV???
> The way they talk any normal human would give themselves a heart attack.
> 
> Sadly Pakistani media also thought it a good idea to copy them.


This was just a sarcastic joke from Pakistani media

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## Ahmet Pasha

I know I was talking bout Gobarswamy


ziaulislam said:


> This was just a sarcastic joke from Pakistani media


----------



## Microsoft

SleeveofWizard said:


> Yeah, they went all the way to Balakot KPK to drop a dummy payload.


You have to wonder why they did that?


----------



## Slides

Microsoft said:


> You have to wonder why they did that?


Modi forced them. The IAF officers are not happy. There is a mini mutiny happening within IAF ranks.

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## untitled

Slides said:


> There is a mini mutiny happening within IAF ranks.


Anyone of them planning to defect to Pakistan? That would seal Modi's fate and make way for Yogi Sahib


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## Mrc

member.exe said:


> Anyone of them planning to defect to Pakistan?




Make then aware of mustasche rules in our side

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## Slides

member.exe said:


> Anyone of them planning to defect to Pakistan? That would seal Modi's fate and make way for Yogi Sahib


No, it's more about agitation against their general staff leadership and the political government which has left the IAF unprepared in many areas. 

This is why Modi is trying to give them a lollipop in the form of Rafales.

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## untitled

Mrc said:


> Make then aware of mustasche rules in our side


Don't think there is any on our side. Many of our pilots sport facial hair of some sort


----------



## Reichsmarschall

unbiasedopinion said:


> Funny part is that you guys are master of changing goal posts. After pulwama we have been warning you about all retaliating angels. What was your response. Pakistan military is prepared for any Indian eventuality.
> 
> We retaliated and invade and challenged your sovereignty. You were not able to do anything. Now you changed your goal post to that you will reply at your own will. That is future to tell, but tell me who is to be blame for this Indian adventure? Your incompetent preparedness or us that even after full warning we used the airforce that too from most sensitive area from where the response was expected always.
> 
> You should ask your army men why we were able to enter your area even if lets assume there was no damage as claimed by you but we did enter till international border deep inside.
> 
> All these reasoning etc are not going to do much. There is not even a single country in the world where this news is condemned. i dont even see this news in chinese daily at all or may be i m missing anything?
> 
> Even if we destroy more camps deep inside the truth is currently the ball is in Pakistan court to act on terror camps before world says enough is enough and come in full support of India openly.
> 
> Also remember UN has already stopped mentioning K word in its listing. You may send any information for your internal consumption but truth is world is fed up of your non-action on these terror camps which are causing issues around the world.
> 
> You guys still has time to act sanely and start living in cordial environment with all neighbours. Iran, Afghanistan, India all should not have a reason to form a joint retaliation action force. It will not help the Pakistan and not the region.
> 
> 
> Well i believe his statement was taken out of context.


you talk alot for a guy who has lost 3 Aircrafts
not wonder you are AWOL since 27th of February








Osiris said:


> Ok..talk when it happens.


can we talk now ?
it has happened
and tea was fantastic

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## Microsoft

dray / Rain Man said:


> KPK claim is a fact, YusiY Azhar has been killed in it. But anyways, our fighter jets have gone into the Pakistani territory and bombed it, shows the state of Pakistan's air defence. And all we are getting in response is a debate over the location of Balakot? We expect better..



Did the response live up to your expectations?

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## JF-17ThunderBlock3

Yesterday , Air Marshall Shahid Lateef was live on ARY. 
He confirmed once again ,Second Jet dropped was su30mki by our JF-17 Thunder.

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## Reichsmarschall

AyanRay said:


> IAF just confirmed, all IAF jets and pilots are accounted for.


this only proves IAF isnt trustworthy at all
They are pathological liars



Count Dracula said:


> LOL looks like DG ISPR had to made some strong statement to save face again.


this post is gold

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## Microsoft

The wheel of time said:


> Oh comeon now, you are talking like a fool now. Perhaps you have no idea of what a flanker is, it will swat f16s like flies. only a foll with a death wish will take a f16 to fight off a flanker. And there is a difference between an enthusiast and a professional. Our air force has evaluated and have rejected the f16 as it does not provide any significant advantage over the existing aircraft of our arsenal.


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## 1Paki$tani

Microsoft said:


>


That is painful.

But flankers had it worst with Aim 120c in its rear end. To cap it off the displayed the part of Aim120c to show the world how painful and big it was.

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## Char

Shahzaz ud din said:


> *End of story, Kill confirmed Pakistan shot down Indian Su-30 MKI on 27 Feb*
> Just look at these kill patches put on by PAF & Turkish air force fighter flyers. There is noting more official then this, that PAF officially confirming "indirectly" that on 27th Feb skirmish in kashmir region pakistan shot down indian SU-30 MKI. Only reason for not openly claiming it is probably the stake of Russians as still pakistan & PAF need to have good relations with Russian and we don't want to give them any real embarrassment that their start fighter flanker shot down by JF 17 Block II.
> 
> For people know about armed forces personal, their badges and patches they wear have some real meanings and if your friendly country armed forces personal sporting these kill patches then its some super level of trolling & humiliation which indians just cant expect. Get ready for some "bhajang" of BoycottTurkey from indian side very soon.
> Lastly I must say we need to put that MI 17 helicopter kill confirmed too ....
> 
> 
> 
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can't believe it! finally it comes true!
PAF pilots + jf-17 >> IAF pilots + mig-21/su-30mki

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## usman012

Dogfight video over Azad Kashmir .


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## maverick1977

Let’s dissect this encounter a bit more...
This battle was won through netcentrix warfare capability of PAF... what it means that at the end of the day Falcon ELINT unit played a major role in taking down a superior enemy aircraft by denying its superior Bars radar to attain a lock on PAF aircrafts ... India had a minimal support of Mi17 ELINT unit but was ineffective in this case ...
Gents, this is the doctrine of future warfare... you can render a superior enemy machine useless if properly jamming their capabilities ... must be frustrating for mig 21 and su30 not to get their missile locked and hence, giving PAF the first shot at them ...

It’s proves one thing Elta 2032 and bars radar which India called invincible for the last 10 years on this forum were shown a befitting response... that’s what the DG ISPR meant, “ we will surprise you, you have not surprised us” because India has no idea that its best asset will be useless to fight Pakiatan and hence, streak of debris falling from west towards east with their tails between their legs...
Rafael will meet the same fate... welcome to Superior electronic warfare capability of PAF... always stay humble but a force to reckon with

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## PakEye

araz said:


> Agreed in totality.
> A



@ The Accountant do not belive on your "BuT".
@ araz NoT AGREE TOTAlity.


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## Secret Service

usman012 said:


> Dogfight video over Azad Kashmir .



These men are talking about two loud blasts , one can be heard at 0:44. These white contrails are BVR missiles.



JF-17ThunderBlock3 said:


> Yesterday , Air Marshall Shahid Lateef was live on ARY.
> He confirmed once again ,Second Jet dropped was su30mki by our JF-17 Thunder.



Share link please.


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## untitled

secretservice said:


> Share link please


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-...dian-kill-patches.609661/page-6#post-11304995

And

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-...dian-kill-patches.609661/page-7#post-11305892

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## JF-17ThunderBlock3

secretservice said:


> These men are talking about two loud blasts , one can be heard at 0:44. These white contrails are BVR missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> Share link please.







at 6:00 - 6:20

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## usman012

secretservice said:


> These men are talking about two loud blasts , one can be heard at 0:44. These white contrails are BVR missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> Share link please.


I do not know about weather it was bvr engagement or close combat .


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## The Eagle



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## NA71

usman012 said:


> Dogfight video over Azad Kashmir .


this is the most clear video with live commentary....

now watch this it has mutiple white smoke clouds...ppl spoting two pilots


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## Myth_buster_1

NA71 said:


> this is the most clear video with live commentary....
> 
> now watch this it has mutiple white smoke clouds...ppl spoting two pilots




this plane trajectory is different from abhi none done. notice after the missile impact this plane went straight down while abhi's plane traveled couple of miles before impacting on the ground. 
so it is confirmed.


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## zulu

Fighter *JUTT  *


JF-17ThunderBlock3 said:


> at 6:00 - 6:20


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## NA71

usman012 said:


> Dogfight video over Azad Kashmir .


At 1:0 to 1:02 person said "do jaz marey ney" two planes were hit.


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## usman012

NA71 said:


> At 1:0 to 1:02 person said "do jaz marey ney" two planes were hit.



It is confirmed that Two Planes were shot down so where are two other pilots ????did they land on other side of Kashmir ???



NA71 said:


> this is the most clear video with live commentary....
> 
> now watch this it has mutiple white smoke clouds...ppl spoting two pilots



Abhinandan was flying a single seater so it is confirmed that Su-30 was shot down .So the Pilot landed on other side of Kashmir.


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## mshan44

Indians have came up with another fantasy and bullshit as usual from last night multan rumor


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## JF-17ThunderBlock3

mshan44 said:


> Indians have came up with another fantasy and bullshit as usual from last night multan rumor
> 
> View attachment 549189



Toxic from Ganges River got him to have delusion parasites.
Now its growing rapidly & as a result trickery tweets coming out of his manhole. #bababanaras

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## Microsoft

Armani said:


> Oh we want you to retaliate. I think whole point of these strikes was to provoke Pakistan into starting a war out of internal compulsions when we are on high alert and without element of surprise such a misadventure is going to end very very badly for Pakistan.



Wow so without element of surprise 6 military targets were locked on in middle of day. Who did it end badly for? Remind me.


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## JF-17ThunderBlock3

mshan44 said:


> Indians have came up with another fantasy and bullshit as usual from last night multan rumor
> 
> View attachment 549189


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## NA71

ab yeh kiya hey bhai...JF-17 wali kahani? Why Ahmed Norani Jumped in and tweet the closure of Multan Air Port? he is reporting heavy firing.


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## Secret Service

NA71 said:


> ab yeh kiya hey bhai...JF-17 wali kahani? Why Ahmed Norani Jumped in and tweet the closure of Multan Air Port? he is reporting heavy firing.


False/fake news.


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## NA71

secretservice said:


> False/fake news.


NOTAM -Multan????


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## Mugwop

usman012 said:


> It is confirmed that Two Planes were shot down so where are two other pilots ????did they land on other side of Kashmir ???
> 
> 
> 
> Abhinandan was flying a single seater so it is confirmed that Su-30 was shot down .So the Pilot landed on other side of Kashmir.


I can only speculate when I say this that the wreckage of aim-120 that india has was pulled out of su-30 and the other pilot might still be alive and in custody who india refuses to own due to more humiliation.
Some sort of game is being played and the indians are making theories up while abhinandan refuses to talk.

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## usman012

Mugwop said:


> I can only speculate when I say this that the wreckage of aim-120 that india has was pulled out of su-30 and the other pilot might still be alive and in custody who india refuses to own due to more humiliation.
> Some sort of game is being played and the indians are making theories up while abhinandan refuses to talk.



I know Indians are hilarious they can do anything .

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## Slides

mshan44 said:


> Indians have came up with another fantasy and bullshit as usual from last night multan rumor
> 
> View attachment 549189



This Indian twitter account has been wrong even about basic stuff. He actually tried to pass up a Pakistani video of our cross LOC strikes as an Indian surgical strike. Its a propaganda account to keep Indians busy while Modi builds statues.



Mugwop said:


> I can only speculate when I say this that the wreckage of aim-120 that india has was pulled out of su-30 and the other pilot might still be alive and in custody who india refuses to own due to more humiliation.
> Some sort of game is being played and the indians are making theories up while abhinandan refuses to talk.



Abhinandan has been kept in confinement and will only be let out after their elections.

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## 1Paki$tani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110053548111351810
It seems they did receive some whopping from PAF. Could it be they lost more than one MKI give they admit 4 Aim120c were fired and also given PAF pilot saying we are only hearing about 30% damage.

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## aliyusuf

1Paki$tani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110053548111351810
> It seems they did receive some whopping from PAF. Could it be they lost more than one MKI give they admit 4 Aim120c were fired and also given PAF pilot saying we are only hearing about 30% damage.


Bhai, there are enough irrational jingoistic trolls from the other side on this forum. No need to play their game. Leave the trolling to those who are trolls by their very nature. Otherwise the quality of our forum goes down.

A humble request.


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## Maxpane

1Paki$tani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110053548111351810
> It seems they did receive some whopping from PAF. Could it be they lost more than one MKI give they admit 4 Aim120c were fired and also given PAF pilot saying we are only hearing about 30% damage.


Russia should sell us Su 35 if she wants a good publicity of SU's

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## dray / Rain Man

Microsoft said:


> Did the response live up to your expectations?



Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.


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## Wow

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.


 Thats a nice movie script too bad it didn't happen

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## ZAC1

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.

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## Windjammer

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.


Damn where were you people for the whole month.
Have you over come the shock treatment.

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## atya

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.


I know then our villagers mistakenly believe that PAF pilot Shazaz ud din was an Indian and beated him to death. Very believable story, don't understand why my fellow Pakistani countrymen don't believe this.

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## Wow

Windjammer said:


> Damn where were you people for the whole month.
> Have you over come the shock treatment.


hes still in the denial stage of grief

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## Oruc

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.


well your dheetpan reminds me of one joke. 
Aik bandy ko usky dost ny ghar dawat pe invite kia. woh tayar ho kar gaya to aagy se gate band tha aur ooper slate per likha tha "April fool". uska ghussy sy bura haal ho gaya aur us ne slate saaf ki aur likh gya. "oey konsa april fool? men to aya hi nai."

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## ziaulislam

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.


Why not make it more tasty ...

Actually mig21 also killed 10,000 terrorists and shot down 18 f16s and 18 jf17 all with his cannon alone as all missles are accounted for..there is no wreckage because mig21 cannon blew the jets in air and because we were at space height all the wreckage burnt on re entry

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## JF-17ThunderBlock3

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.



I feel sorry for your idiocy. This theorey dies


ziaulislam said:


> Why not make it more tasty ...
> 
> Actually mig21 also killed 10,000 terrorists and shot down 18 f16s and 18 jf17 all with his cannon alone as all missles are accounted for..there is no wreckage because mig21 cannon blew the jets in air and because we were at space height all the wreckage burnt on re entry



Now that my friend is pretty nasty Sci-Fi Plot. 
Guardian of Indi-wood in a wonderland.

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## ziaulislam

JF-17ThunderBlock3 said:


> I feel sorry for your idiocy. This theorey dies
> 
> 
> Now that my friend is pretty nasty Sci-Fi Plot.
> Guardian of Indi-wood in a wonderland.


Still better plot than a Pakistani pilot landing and than killed by mob whose name changes everyday and his long last son of Pakistani air chief(his own sons are accounted for and are not even in airforce)

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## Mrc

1Paki$tani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110053548111351810
> It seems they did receive some whopping from PAF. Could it be they lost more than one MKI give they admit 4 Aim120c were fired and also given PAF pilot saying we are only hearing about 30% damage.





This guy is unprofessional... Even his claim about rafael is unprofessional

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## rockstarIN

Mrc said:


> This guy is unprofessional... Even his claim about rafael is unprofessional



He is just trying to push additional 36 rafis which is optional as per the contract.


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## NA71

Mrc said:


> This guy is unprofessional... Even his claim about rafael is unprofessional


 If you have watched his earlier presser weeks ago....you would have got the idea of how professional he is. Even Journalists were shocked by his answers.


rockstarIN said:


> He is just trying to push additional 36 rafis which is optional as per the contract.




What diff will it make? down the road again Rafale will meet the same fate as SU30.... and Modi ji will say Aaj F-35 hota tu nateeja kuch aur hota.

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## PakShaheen79

I am amazed how Indian senior most military officials concludes their analysis about something complex as war and its possible outcomes. I remember listening to EX-ACM PAF Sohail Aman when he was asked about his opinion about which PAF aircraft did make the kills, he simply said, "As professional ex-soldier, i will never disclose operational details". May be Sohail Aman has this opinion as Pakistan, in context of Indo-Pak balance of power, is on the lower end of asymmetry and concealing operational details is a necessity, but I think even for a party enjoying the majority in this equation must state their opinion with more professional language than what IAF chief has done in his tweet. It makes him look like a 10 year old kid.

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## Daghalodi

NA71 said:


> If you have watched his earlier presser weeks ago....you would have got the idea of how professional he is. Even Journalists were shocked by his answers.
> 
> 
> 
> What diff will it make? down the road again Rafale will meet the same fate as SU30.... and Modi ji will say Aaj F-35 hota tu nateeja kuch aur hota.



BS dhanoa during Operation Gagan Shakti claimed IAF was ready for a two front War!!

Neutralizing PAF and than going after PLAAF.

I wonder what happened to those claims and operation Gagan Shakti looks like a total failure when your crying and whinning about Rafales to save yourself

I guess Mr BS Dhanoa was BS again!!

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## NA71

Allah barey bol say bachaey.....Allah agaey bhi karam karay ga....we can only give our best.

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## rockstarIN

NA71 said:


> If you have watched his earlier presser weeks ago....you would have got the idea of how professional he is. Even Journalists were shocked by his answers.
> 
> 
> 
> What diff will it make? down the road again Rafale will meet the same fate as SU30.... and Modi ji will say Aaj F-35 hota tu nateeja kuch aur hota.



Super dupa JF-17? should we go for it then or more Bisons?


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## NA71

rockstarIN said:


> Super dupa JF-17? should we go for it then or more Bisons?


no ....just have more common sense and less arrogance

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## Bilal Khan 777

dray / Rain Man said:


> Oh yes, our oldest vintage MiG-21 shot down the best of Pakistani air force, a F-16, and then our pilot walked away with zero negotiation. Meanwhile Pakistan is continuously getting pounded at the border.



Yes he is right, this is exactly what happened, unfortunately.

The Mig21 bison (pilot missing) shot the f16. Then it got so lonely, it shot itself and landed in Asad Kashmir so Pakistani could take Selfies with it.

The Mirage 2000 (pilot missing), seeing the big sacrifice by its grandfather Mig-21 also shot itself, and landed in a place where the pieces could be wrapped up overnight.

The Su-30 (pilot Abhi nandan released, weapons officer missing) , seeing what his fellow "laraku viman" had achieved, just put its head down in such embarrassment, did not realize that he was forward throttle at 270 knots, hit the ground in a kamikaze fashion, or was it a technical glitch? No way, No Su30 were flying that day. They dont fly during the day time because its too hot for them.

The helicopter, well, that is whole another story.

Thats all folks.

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## Arsalan 345

how long we can keep our airspace closed? this is a big problem.india will continue aggressive posture.we should open airspace.iaf want revenge.they are making excuses.rafale is not 5th generation plane.it can't change anything.


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## alphibeti

Arsalan 345 said:


> how long we can keep our airspace closed? this is a big problem.india will continue aggressive posture.we should open airspace.iaf want revenge.they are making excuses.rafale is not 5th generation plane.it can't change anything.


What's wrong if we keep it closed? We don't care if Indians are crying. 
Offensive posture? As long as Indians keep their planes (especially SU-30) 50-60 KM away from border and LoC (to be safe from our hit), let them have that posture (whatever they call it offensive or defensive). 
Revenge? If anything, IAF needs to take revenge from Modi whose stupidity brought the IAF to utter disgrace and humiliation. First thing IAF needs to do is bomb his azz.

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## Bilal Khan 777

Arsalan 345 said:


> how long we can keep our airspace closed? this is a big problem.india will continue aggressive posture.we should open airspace.iaf want revenge.they are making excuses.rafale is not 5th generation plane.it can't change anything.



We are not the aggressors. As long as there is threat from India, we have to stay on the defence.

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## wasileo80

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Yes he is right, this is exactly what happened, unfortunately.
> 
> The Mig21 bison (pilot missing) shot the f16. Then it got so lonely, it shot itself and landed in Asad Kashmir so Pakistani could take Selfies with it.
> 
> The Mirage 2000 (pilot missing), seeing the big sacrifice by its grandfather Mig-21 also shot itself, and landed in a place where the pieces could be wrapped up overnight.
> 
> The Su-30 (pilot Abhi nandan released, weapons officer missing) , seeing what his fellow "laraku viman" had achieved, just put its head down in such embarrassment, did not realize that he was forward throttle at 270 knots, hit the ground in a kamikaze fashion, or was it a technical glitch? No way, No Su30 were flying that day. They dont fly during the day time because its too hot for them.
> 
> The helicopter, well, that is whole another story.
> 
> Thats all folks.


Sir you summed up the whole incident

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## Trailer23

rockstarIN said:


> Super dupa JF-17? should we go for it then or more Bisons?


Didn't your Tejas get FOC (Final Operational Clearance) like last month?!! Its a homegrown jet, and your PM & ACM still feel that Rafale will make the difference. Just gives the feel that even the IAF thinks the Tejas is lawnmower with Delta Wings. 

They make those statements with Su-30's & Mirage-2000 (already) in their inventory.

Perhaps the addition of a few Typhoons, Gripens, F-21's might please them while going head-to-head against the PAF. The odds will finally be even.

Heck, even the US will end up saying, "_Guys, you really want us to step in (again) with that End-User Agreement b.s. with all the fancy toys you have?!!_"

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## Oruc

Bilal Khan 777 said:


> Yes he is right, this is exactly what happened, unfortunately.
> 
> The Mig21 bison (pilot missing) shot the f16. Then it got so lonely, it shot itself and landed in Asad Kashmir so Pakistani could take Selfies with it.
> 
> The Mirage 2000 (pilot missing), seeing the big sacrifice by its grandfather Mig-21 also shot itself, and landed in a place where the pieces could be wrapped up overnight.
> 
> The Su-30 (pilot Abhi nandan released, weapons officer missing) , seeing what his fellow "laraku viman" had achieved, just put its head down in such embarrassment, did not realize that he was forward throttle at 270 knots, hit the ground in a kamikaze fashion, or was it a technical glitch? No way, No Su30 were flying that day. They dont fly during the day time because its too hot for them.
> 
> The helicopter, well, that is whole another story.
> 
> Thats all folks.


 Epic. 

while all this was going on Tejas sat in his hole singing "ay khuda mery abbu salamat rahen"

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## Mrc

1Paki$tani said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110053548111351810
> It seems they did receive some whopping from PAF. Could it be they lost more than one MKI give they admit 4 Aim120c were fired and also given PAF pilot saying we are only hearing about 30% damage.




This is taccid admission that su 30 and mirage was handed their arse in a tattered lungi on 27th and this can b repeated at will....

So all hopes now on rafael

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## F86 Saber

I have a question, why did SU-30 and Mirage 2000 fail against PAF? Apparently it was just because of the planning and execution of PAF that IAF was taken by surprise and could not respond.............. or is it????

If it was just because of tactics then what upgrade will Rafael give the IAF on their existing fleet? None i believe.
The only explanation of their demoralized demeanor and their desperate cry for Rafael can be that their prized Israeli and Russian EW pods and targeting tech failed against our missiles and our EW equipment.

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## untitled

Mrc said:


> So all hopes now on rafael





F86 Saber said:


> If it was just because of tactics then what upgrade will Rafael


Rafael already did provide the Spice weapons to India among others
I think what you guys meant was the *Rafale* fighter.
Yes many people make this mistake


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## F86 Saber

member.exe said:


> Rafael already did provide the Spice weapons among others to India
> I think what you guys meant was the *Rafale* fighter.
> Yes many people make this mistake



No i meant the Rafale fighter jet


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## Riz

member.exe said:


> Who was flying the MiG-21 then?


Shahzaz Hussain...

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## Maarkhoor

member.exe said:


> Who was flying the MiG-21 then?


The one who died in CMH.


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## Bratva

Maarkhoor said:


> The one who died in CMH.




Naa Inni Lambi chaddo hun. Lets stick to the facts. Abhinandan was flying MIG-21

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## Maarkhoor

Bratva said:


> Naa Inni Lambi chaddo hun. Lets stick to the facts. Abhinandan was flying MIG-21


I am stating the truth man


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## Bratva

Maarkhoor said:


> I am stating the truth man



Just like indians stating truth and facts at bharat rakshak ? They claiming with absolute certainty, they killed 12 of our soldiers last week and A jf-17 was shot down by our own SAM which crash landed at Multan airport yesterday hence the emergency closure of multan airport.

Point being. Let's stick to what is verifiable fact.

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## Maarkhoor

Bratva said:


> Just like indians stating truth and facts at bharat rakshak ? They claiming with absolute certainty, they killed 12 of our soldiers last week and A jf-17 was shot down by our own SAM which crash landed at Multan airport yesterday hence the emergency closure of multan airport.
> 
> Point being. Let's stick to what is verifiable fact.


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## Arsalan 345

i read tom cooper comment from f-16.net on this 27 feb situation.actually he isn't a fan of paf pilots but he made an interesting point about awacs.....

"There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February. 
The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'. 

As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed.

Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess. 

So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear. 

...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames".


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Arsalan 345 said:


> i read tom cooper comment from f-16.net on this 27 feb situation.actually he isn't a fan of paf pilots but he made an interesting point about awacs.....
> 
> "There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February.
> The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'.
> 
> As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed.
> 
> Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess.
> 
> So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear.
> 
> ...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames".


1st no F-16 were used.
Secondly if PAF saw an opportunity and attacked then they wouldn't have sent in so many jets. 24 as Indian claim.
Third. AMRAAM is bvr. Why would it miss after 30km?

Its just another story from another person onntge globe.

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## Slides

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> 1st no F-16 were used.
> Secondly if PAF saw an opportunity and attacked then they wouldn't have sent in so many jets. 24 as Indian claim.
> Third. AMRAAM is bvr. Why would it miss after 30km?
> 
> Its just another story from another person onntge globe.



No F-16 was used in the cross border strike but they were used as backup for A2A combat on our side of LoC.


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## Mugwop

This was dray / Rain Man reaction when abhinandan was captured

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Slides said:


> No F-16 was used in the cross border strike but they were used as backup for A2A combat on our side of LoC.


Whole air force was used as a back up.


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## waraich66

Can any friend resolve this mystery , this is hot debate all over PAF forums. 

My conclusion is Pak Radars were jammed through superior technology.


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## Maxpane

Rubbish

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## Kompromat



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## Vortex

No. Our radars weren’t jammed. But their jets came by road on trucks.

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## 1Paki$tani

waraich66 said:


> Can any friend resolve this mystery , this is hot debate all over PAF forums.
> 
> My conclusion is Pak Radars were jammed through superior technology.




Stick to one bloody storey.

first it was attack by flying 23 minutes and all the way to balakot
than it became no we used SOW
than it became we never crossed LOC but used SOW from our own side.

So which one is it? depending on which one you chose the answer will be according to that choice.

*As for Pakistan
*
Well we are clear that they did cross LOC but were intercepted by our fighters. they did not have enough time to lock on to the target and just fired off the weapons in haste and than ran for their life. 

as



waraich66 said:


> My conclusion is Pak Radars were jammed through superior technology.



Time to wake up and smell the coffee. They were detected and made to run away.

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## BHarwana

waraich66 said:


> Can any friend resolve this mystery , this is hot debate all over PAF forums.
> 
> My conclusion is Pak Radars were jammed through superior technology.


This will help you understand on IAF failed.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/balakot-attempted-attack-reality-under-the-misinformation-war.610118/


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## Jf Thunder

sorry, I am not supposed to tell you that, sshhrrrrppppp

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## Imad.Khan

waraich66 said:


> Can any friend resolve this mystery , this is hot debate all over PAF forums.
> 
> My conclusion is Pak Radars were jammed through superior technology.



So they jammed the raders on that day and then turned their jammers off.


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## SQ8

Which pak forums??
Mr waraich posting from Proxy IP

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## waraich66

May be Sr PAF


Imad.Khan said:


> So they jammed the raders on that day and then turned their jammers off.


IAF may have used Stealth Fighter planes ?

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## Rusty

This thread sould be deleted. 
Propoganda 101:
His question assumes that indian version is the truth and then goes on to ask how the "Indian truth" could have happened. 

Every credible media outlet in the world has discredited Indian version.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Mrc said:


> This is taccid admission that su 30 and mirage was handed their arse in a tattered lungi on 27th and this can b repeated at will....
> 
> So all hopes now on rafael


Indians won't stop here!!! They have already taken the fight to the low orbit SATs!!!! Next, it'll be to the Mars....



Wow said:


> hes still in the denial stage of grief


Indians don't get beyond #4....



Mrc said:


> This guy is unprofessional... Even his claim about rafael is unprofessional


How do you think this BS folk has gone up the ladder?????

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## waraich66

Rusty said:


> This thread sould be deleted.
> Propoganda 101:
> His question assumes that indian version is the truth and then goes on to ask how the "Indian truth" could have happened.
> 
> Every credible media outlet in the world has discredited Indian version.


Good Response : Post should be deleted lol

Please read about Stealth Technology , F 35 is good example !

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## 1Paki$tani

waraich66 said:


> Good Response : Post should be deleted lol
> 
> Please read about Stealth Technology , F 35 is good example !


for one to use stealth one must possess stealth.

can you enlighten us all which stealth plane does India possess?


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## waraich66

1Paki$tani said:


> for one to use stealth one must possess stealth.
> 
> can you enlighten us all which stealth plane does India possess?


Good Question !
Israel may be involved in Attack ? Israel have stealth technology .

I am not expert but this is common sense , which is not common lol


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## Imad.Khan

waraich66 said:


> May be Sr PAF
> 
> IAF may have used Stealth Fighter planes ?



a more plausible explanation is that those plans are powered on cow piss and using vedic cloaking technology that made them powerful and invisible.

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## 1Paki$tani

waraich66 said:


> Good Question !
> Israel may be involved in Attack ? Israel have stealth technology .
> 
> I am not expert but this is common sense , which is not common lol


Which stealth technology does Israel possess? Which of their fighter jet are stealth?

I lack common sense so need help.

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## Maxpane

stealth waraich tayarA lol

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## 1Paki$tani

Maxpane said:


> stealth waraich tayarA lol



Lol...

How would it go head to head with new khan express.... maybe we should consider inducting that into PAF.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

waraich66 said:


> Good Response : Post should be deleted lol
> 
> Please read about Stealth Technology , F 35 is good example !


Best of your Devils/Satans/Lucifers/Demons from both India and Israil aren't enough for Pak!!!! Send better ones next time.....

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## Rashid Mahmood

waraich66 said:


> Can any friend resolve this mystery , this is hot debate all over PAF forums.
> 
> My conclusion is Pak Radars were jammed through superior technology.




another google champion.

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## Maxpane

1Paki$tani said:


> Lol...
> 
> How would it go head to head with new khan express.... maybe we should consider inducting that into PAF.


bhai waraich tayara is 6.5 gen

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## waraich66

I am disappointed by level of general knowledge of very senior members , guy always think out of box and use common sense and use IT for knowledge gain.
I recommend promotion of members should not be on basis of no posts but quality of posts.

Absence of Marit system is biggest problem of Pakistan!


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## mshan44

__ https://www.facebook.com/





now they are crying that nauman ali khan is f 16 pilot my God all they can do is cry cry and cry

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## Maxpane

mshan44 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now they are crying that nauman ali khan is f 16 pilot my God all they can do is cry cry and cry


video is not available

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## mshan44

Maxpane said:


> video is not available







__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## 1Paki$tani

waraich66 said:


> I am disappointed by level of general knowledge of very senior members , guy always think out of box and use common sense and use IT for knowledge gain.
> I recommend promotion of members should not be on basis of no posts but quality of posts.
> 
> Absence of Marit system is biggest problem of Pakistan!



Well you can enlighten us about our lack of knowledge.

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## Maxpane

mshan44 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


bhai not available

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## GriffinsRule

BTW when Indians complain that our entire air force was in the air against their 8 interceptors ... what they are really saying is that PAF has nearly 100% serviceability while Indians could only manage 8 aircraft for 4 different bases

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## NA71

See


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## Mr.Cringeworth

Arsalan 345 said:


> i read tom cooper comment from f-16.net on this 27 feb situation.actually he isn't a fan of paf pilots but he made an interesting point about awacs.....
> 
> "There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February.
> The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'.
> 
> As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed.
> 
> Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess.
> 
> So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear.
> 
> ...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames".


Link please?

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## 1Paki$tani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111145074841268224

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## The Accountant

NA71 said:


> View attachment 549849
> 
> See


This is a shitting piece of information for me ... I was always of the view that we are very backward in satellite tech and this guy is telling me that Pakistan communication network is satellite based ... What a hell of discovery for Pakistanies ...

I think Indian government has no job but to bash Pakistan ... Inko susu bhi na arha tu Pakistan per ilzaam laga dety hain

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## graphican

NA71 said:


> View attachment 549849
> 
> See



Pakistan has wrapped this guy all around! Even thought he apparently hates but in reality he lives and breaths Pakistan.

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## Path-Finder



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## Arsalan 345

Mr.Cringeworth said:


> Link please?



http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=413924&sid=2beaffaa44a47747fcbf62770b43f3ab#p413924

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## The Eagle

Arsalan 345 said:


> i read tom cooper comment from f-16.net on this 27 feb situation.actually he isn't a fan of paf pilots but he made an interesting point about awacs.....
> 
> "There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February.
> The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'.
> 
> As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed.
> 
> Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess.
> 
> So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear.
> 
> ...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames".



Every party has to insist upon their respective product. Like, I don't see India accepts the beating into the hands of JF-17. Stories & stories all over.

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## Khafee

Arsalan 345 said:


> i read tom cooper comment from f-16.net on this 27 feb situation.actually he isn't a fan of paf pilots but he made an interesting point about awacs.....
> 
> "There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February.
> The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'.
> 
> As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed.
> 
> Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess.
> 
> So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear.
> 
> ...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames".



Don't believe everything you read online. Everybody wants to show that they have a "source," or "sources" just to feed their overinflated ego. Doesn't matter how far it is from the truth, or how stupid they look when saying "AMRAAM's failed when fired from 30km+", cherry on the cake: not one, but "FEW"

@Tps43 @Signalian Check out the goras version of events, seems they like desi too!

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## Khafee

Rashid Mahmood said:


> another google champion.



Google is making people stupid, no doubting that. They have given up using common sense.

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## Windjammer

Snowcat1971 said:


> I think everyone around the world knows which nation is a story teller. Lying about facts has been deeply instilled in the government/dictatorship across the border, Whether it be the 86/87 f-16 crash/shot down incident or be it any other incident/skirmishes/wars with the neighbours.


Yea and you with a fake ID have the face to make these accusations,.

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## Khafee

waraich66 said:


> I am disappointed by level of general knowledge of very senior members , guy always think out of box and use common sense and use IT for knowledge gain.
> I recommend promotion of members should not be on basis of no posts but quality of posts.
> 
> Absence of *Marit system* is biggest problem of Pakistan!



"Marit System" exists only on Mars, Pls migrate.

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## Maarkhoor

Arsalan 345 said:


> i read tom cooper comment from f-16.net on this 27 feb situation.actually he isn't a fan of paf pilots but he made an interesting point about awacs.....
> 
> "There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February.
> The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'.
> 
> As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed.
> 
> Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess.
> 
> So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear.
> 
> ...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames".


Which fiction you are reading Sir? I am 100% sure someone high on Gau Muttar wrote this and you took it as gospel of truth.

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## Windjammer

Snowcat1971 said:


> Please don't quote me unless you have something constructive to add. Counter with facts , not with childish jibes.


Fact is your week end warriors are waving a piece of AMRAAM missile as a proof that F-16 were used.
Go and ask them did they find it amongst the Mi-17 wreckage or the SU-30 remains.
Then come back with your rants.

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## Imran Khan

Snowcat1971 said:


> The Mi-17 incident is still under investigation, so don't worry about that. As for the Su 30, nothing happened to it. If it would have crashed in Kashmir , it would be all over the news as internet still works there but can't say the same for Azad Kashmir , they have had their internet turned off for sometimes , so a F-16 crashing there , wouldn't even make the news. Perfect cover up for our special neighbours.


Wow what a pathtic lie . Internet is block in indian occupaid kashmir not in azad kashmir

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## Windjammer

Snowcat1971 said:


> The Mi-17 incident is still under investigation, so don't worry about that. As for the Su 30, nothing happened to it. If it would have crashed in Kashmir , it would be all over the news as internet still works there but can't say the same for Azad Kashmir , they have had their internet turned off for sometimes , so a F-16 crashing there , wouldn't even make the news. Perfect cover up for our special neighbours.


The worry is for you to find out whether it was taken out by an AMRAAM or one of your own gung ho pilots.
As for the rest, I'm sure Modi is crying for Rafales through his love for Ambanis.
It doesn't take a genius to work out why in the presence of some 200 SU-30s he still feels insecure.

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## abrar khan

Snowcat1971 said:


> but can't say the same for Azad Kashmir , they have had their internet turned off for sometimes , so a F-16 crashing there , wouldn't even make the news.


And you dumb think for that reason, news or a video of crashed aircraft will never come out even after a month time.  
If F-16 was downed, your papa america would have informed you first.

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## Trailer23

Snowcat1971 said:


> Please don't quote me unless you have something constructive to add. Counter with facts , not with childish jibes.


Here are a few facts for you to review...

Here are a few videos for you to review..., since you just showed up.
















Here is one of my fav. _Christine Fair_, who is a regular on Indian Media speaks her mind on the Balakot Strikes. Be my guest if you wish to watch the entire video. This US professor who hails from Georgetown Uni. hates Pakistan, but here she rips the IAF to shreds.

Check Time - *15:15*
At *15:40* she clears up all the b.s. about what Pilots can & CANNOT do from the sky.





​

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## Oruc

If internet was turned off then this idiot thinks that movies and pics of abhinandan and other videos n pics from the same AJK area were uploaded with in minutes without internet?

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## Vortex

Lying is indians trademark

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## Vortex

Trailer23 said:


> I thought it was Rape.


 

Incredible India ! Lie to hide the Truth.

I remember my mother telling me in my childhood that Lie is mother of all sins.

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## The Eagle

Snowcat1971 said:


> I think everyone around the world knows which nation is a story teller. Lying about facts has been deeply instilled in the government/dictatorship across the border, Whether it be the 86/87 f-16 crash/shot down incident or be it any other incident/skirmishes/wars with the neighbours.



Well, its been proven for long and a refresher has been done since 26th Feb, 2019 as how Indian Establishment & Indian Military been caught lying for every single claims.



Snowcat1971 said:


> The Mi-17 incident is still under investigation, so don't worry about that. As for the Su 30, nothing happened to it. If it would have crashed in Kashmir , it would be all over the news as internet still works there but can't say the same for Azad Kashmir , they have had their internet turned off for sometimes , so a F-16 crashing there , wouldn't even make the news. Perfect cover up for our special neighbours.



All the videos being shared on the forum from day first are from Azad Kashmir unlike total black out in Indian Occupied Kashmir. All the videos are being recorded from Azad Kashmir side and every proof indicates the same except that you have to tow the deliberate Indian line.

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## Tps43

Khafee said:


> Don't believe everything you read online. Everybody wants to show that they have a "source," or "sources" just to feed their overinflated ego. Doesn't matter how far it is from the truth, or how stupid they look when saying "AMRAAM's failed when fired from 30km+", cherry on the cake: not one, but "FEW"
> 
> @Tps43 @Signalian Check out the goras version of events, seems they like desi too!


Eastern desis hahaha

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## NA71

I wish another IAF formation comes and gets intercepted again ...over lahore or sialkot 1000s of cell phone videos capture the scene of Pilots coming down and asking Yeh India hey na.....

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## Cuirassier

Arsalan 345 said:


> i read tom cooper comment from f-16.net on this 27 feb situation.actually he isn't a fan of paf pilots but he made an interesting point about awacs.....
> 
> "There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February.
> The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'.
> 
> As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed.
> 
> Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess.
> 
> So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear.
> 
> ...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames".


This dude is a diabolic PAF hater, he was all over claiming that we lost an F16 despite no proof and own denial. Very biased.

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## Cuirassier

NA71 said:


> I wish another IAF formation comes and gets intercepted again ...over lahore or sialkot 1000s of cell phone videos capture the scene of Pilots coming down and asking Yeh India hey na.....


Be careful what you wish for.

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## NA71

TF141 said:


> Be careful what you wish for.


Allah Rehm karey...ham sab par.

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## Kedardel

By the Air strike Modi’s graph against coalition has increased manifolds. In fact there is no one near him.
The situation for Indian forces has never been better, fighting PAF in Azad Kashmir JUST WOW. Everything is open now. Pakistan Forces will have to now take into consideration IAF strike packages during peace times. They will have to secure their non state actors as well that would mean increased costs. 
Some one attacks Mumbai, Lahor and Karachi will see action.
Now the next Indian Govt.s will have pressure as to why they didn’t cross the boundary when Modi could.

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## The Deterrent

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2...stroke-iaf.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true


> (Air chief marshal Anil Yashwant Tipnis served as the 18th chief of the Indian Air Force from 1998 to 2001. It was during his tenure that the IAF undertook combat operations in the Kargil War. He was speaking to Justin Paul George.)





> *The Su-30MKI's technology is dated in all parameters. In addition, with respect to failure rates, reliability, sortie-generation capabilities and a host of other performance parameters, the Su-30MKI ranks a poor second to even its predecessor in the IAF, the Mirage 2000.*





https://indianexpress.com/article/i...t-strike-iaf-challenges-mig-21-bison-5618654/


> An IAF fighter pilot, who has also trained young pilots, explained that this lesson was driven home by the February 27 aerial engagement over Rajouri. "*To put it in simple terms, we needed to put two Sukhois against each F-16 to avoid these hits.* If we had the Rafales with Meteor missiles, the roles would have been reversed. Pakistan would have to put out two F-16s for every Rafale with Meteor,” he said.





> “When I was flying in the Kargil war, this was not the situation. Pakistani F16s did not have the AMRAAMs then, and we had better missiles. They got AMRAAMs in 2011 and that has put us at a disadvantage, which will be fixed by the Meteor missiles,” he said.




https://www.hindustantimes.com/colu...ght-reveals/story-dDa4H38Xtq7LPnj6DtkZRN.html


> Four Sukhoi-30s, the IAF’s most powerful air-superiority aircraft, were involved in the melee at beyond visual range (BVR). They were surprised by the PAF F-16s firing their American AMRAAM missiles from so far that their own radar/computer/missiles were not able to give them a “firing solution”.* Translated: India’s best fighter, which constitutes half of the IAF’s combat force, was outranged and outgunned.*





> How did Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman cross the LoC? He was in visual pursuit of a PAF fighter for sure. But his controller was warning him to return. *He didn’t. Because he couldn’t hear. As you’d expect in 2019, the battle zone had full radio-jamming. *That’s why modern fighters have secure data links. Why didn’t that MiG have it?

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## SQ8

The Deterrent said:


> https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2...stroke-iaf.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://indianexpress.com/article/i...t-strike-iaf-challenges-mig-21-bison-5618654/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hindustantimes.com/colu...ght-reveals/story-dDa4H38Xtq7LPnj6DtkZRN.html


We’ll continue to hear counters to this info in terms of “things have changed”; but both fixes to the general obsolescence of the Sukhoi’s electronics and fighting concepts along with Rafale being integrated into their Orbat will take 5 years easily.

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## Trailer23

Kedardel said:


> By the Air strike Modi’s graph against coalition has increased manifolds. In fact there is no one near him.
> The situation for Indian forces has never been better, fighting PAF in Azad Kashmir JUST WOW. Everything is open now. Pakistan Forces will have to now take into consideration IAF strike packages during peace times. They will have to secure their non state actors as well that would mean increased costs.
> Some one attacks Mumbai, Lahor and Karachi will see action.
> Now the next Indian Govt.s will have pressure as to why they didn’t cross the boundary when Modi could.


I'm not certain as to what the percentage is of the people (in India) that actually believe the Air Strikes took place in Balakot or not. And I know that you don't have a remote clue either. But then its a Indian thing, i'll leave it at that.

I am curious as to how you have come to the conclusion that the situation of the Indian Forces has never been better... I'm actually stunned that you were able to complete that sentence with 'PAF' in it.

What exactly is open? Do you think that Strike Packages (by any Nation) is like driving to Baskin Robbins late nite when you can't sleep...? Even (if) India were to attempt/embark on that treacherous journey, the repercussions would be precisely the same as they were on the eve of 27th Feb. You recall that day, right?!Leaving the Abhi Story aside, your IAF (coincidentally) lost 02 other equipment around that time. Hope you have a better coverup in your so-called "Strike Package in Peace Times".

Someone attacks Mumbai...Bombay or whatever the hell you're calling it these days. Take it up with them. Your PM suffers from Diarrhea, ya'll blame Pakistan.

As for Lahore & Karachi, those cities see action everyday. Just try getting through Saddar during rush hour...

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## TsAr

Oscar said:


> We’ll continue to hear counters to this info in terms of “things have changed”; but both fixes to the general obsolescence of the Sukhoi’s electronics and fighting concepts along with Rafale being integrated into their Orbat will take 5 years easily.


Question for @Oscar , India is getting 36 Rafales, out of 36 they would need 6 for training purposes which leave 30. Even if the availability is 80% they would be left with 24. 
Out of 24 if they deploy 12 along PK border and 12 along China border, do you think that 12 will make a serious difference?

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## Arsalan 345

Kedardel said:


> By the Air strike Modi’s graph against coalition has increased manifolds. In fact there is no one near him.
> The situation for Indian forces has never been better, fighting PAF in Azad Kashmir JUST WOW. Everything is open now. Pakistan Forces will have to now take into consideration IAF strike packages during peace times. They will have to secure their non state actors as well that would mean increased costs.
> Some one attacks Mumbai, Lahor and Karachi will see action.
> Now the next Indian Govt.s will have pressure as to why they didn’t cross the boundary when Modi could.



modi is doing great but we also love our country so expect retaliation every time.yes fear is now gone and it's good.lets see who is better.

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## alphibeti

Kedardel said:


> By the Air strike Modi’s graph against coalition has increased manifolds. In fact there is no one near him.
> The situation for Indian forces has never been better, fighting PAF in Azad Kashmir JUST WOW. Everything is open now. Pakistan Forces will have to now take into consideration IAF strike packages during peace times. They will have to secure their non state actors as well that would mean increased costs.
> Some one attacks Mumbai, Lahor and Karachi will see action.
> Now the next Indian Govt.s will have pressure as to why they didn’t cross the boundary when Modi could.


I don't know how much Modi is popular after we kicked sh!t out of Modi's as$ on 27/2. Indians are brainless pessimist animals in any case. The only plus Modi has for Hindus is his being mass murderer of Muslims. So a bloody crimnal became Indian PM. For a respected society that would be a matter of deep shame. For Hindus that sick-minded criminal is a hero. Probably due to skewed psyche caused by centuries of slavery.

No, we don't need to keep a CAP every where in Pak 24/7. We are not scared - least of coward Hindus. We'll let IAF come in and then hunt them down. And then... next day ... we'll fly to India, take control of the skies, establish air superiority, and hit Indian as$ even harder. If you have guts, come again for aggression against Pakistan. Modi doesn't have that. Anyhow, we are ready sacrifice a few trees again and then kill as many Indian planes in retaliation. But this time we'll not hit symbolic targets. We'll put your WOW deep in your rear hole.

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## SQ8

TsAr said:


> Question for @Oscar , India is getting 36 Rafales, out of 36 they would need 6 for training purposes which leave 30. Even if the availability is 80% they would be left with 24.
> Out of 24 if they deploy 12 along PK border and 12 along China border, do you think that 12 will make a serious difference?


You are assuming 36 will arrive in one day and they will have an entire squadron worth of pilots trained and experienced on them completely integrated with their force structure.

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## TAC

Kedardel said:


> By the Air strike Modi’s graph against coalition has increased manifolds. In fact there is no one near him.
> The situation for Indian forces has never been better, fighting PAF in Azad Kashmir JUST WOW. Everything is open now. Pakistan Forces will have to now take into consideration IAF strike packages during peace times. They will have to secure their non state actors as well that would mean increased costs.
> Some one attacks Mumbai, Lahor and Karachi will see action.
> Now the next Indian Govt.s will have pressure as to why they didn’t cross the boundary when Modi could.



LOL. No problem for next Indian Govt.s. just drop some bombs on some random trees over the LOC and get a guy with biggest turban I've ever seen to anounce that 300 terrorists were killed by the mighty IAF. Matters little that not a single independent satalite image has confirmed this. Then when the IAF gets its butt swiped in the retaliation present misiles fired by the enemy as proof that the IAF shot down enemy aircraft (thats got to be first in the history of air warfare - well done IAF) while the enemy is parading actual captured IAF pilots and their shot down mounts and if anyone dares question this pile of lies just shut them up by calling them a traitor. It's a tried and tested formula that works every time on a population overdosing on Bollywood.

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## aliyusuf

I am truly astonished at the *Indian capacity for irrationalism, jingoism and megalomania*. What can you expect from a nation, where a genocidal killer of Muslims in Gujrat is elected as the PM of India. In stark contrast, no ultra right wing political force ever won anything significant here in Pakistan neither at the center nor in the provinces.

So these sort of twisted responses from Indian members should not come as a surprise to any of us and should, in fact, be expected.

All I can say to such perturbed & demented souls from across the border is that *they should re-read the post #7172 of the current thread by @The Deterrent* … and try to *analyze what is being said from their own Indian sources* by removing the cobwebs and smokescreen of Hindutva + Patriotic Propaganda.

When Abhinandan was initially captured, there were even certain Indian members who even refused to admit he was a fighter pilot by stating the unsuitability of the Abhinandan's moustache.

*For the last decade or so*, all we would get from Indian posters in almost every thread … *MKI is this and MKI is that* blah blah blah … *ad infinitum ad nauseam ad mortem*.

There favorite Bollywood terms of "ghus ke marenge", "surgical strike" and "cold start" etc., and then analyze the stark change in tone being depicted in the articles referred to by @The Deterrent in post number #7172. What brought about that change in tone? Some would say that it is a ploy for Rafales. They would be deluding themselves if they believed that. No one in there right mind would belittle their own forces and current air fleet in this manner. What would they say when they lose a Rafale in some future clash?

After 27th of Feb, it was initially silence … then sneaky excuses … then gradually culminating into characteristic twisting of facts and blind irrational urge to deny and obfuscate the truth.

Typically Indian, I guess.

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## Rakesh

We believe, what we want to believe. There are so many versions of what happened on that day. 
But for two professional air force, what does it mean ?
PAF used 'almost' all types of available resources for the attack (as stated by DGISPR). So, what next ? PAF must be searching for the answer. They will have to enhance the capabilities from now onwards.
IAF now knows, the kind of responses from PAF (or there may be some more surprises). They will bargain hard with govt for more resources.
It will be interesting to see future course of actions by two air forces.


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## GumNaam

Rakesh said:


> We believe, what we want to believe. There are so many versions of what happened on that day.
> But for two professional air force, what does it mean ?
> PAF used 'almost' all types of available resources for the attack (as stated by DGISPR). So, what next ? PAF must be searching for the answer. They will have to enhance the capabilities from now onwards.
> IAF now knows, the kind of responses from PAF (or there may be some more surprises). They will bargain hard with govt for more resources.
> It will be interesting to see future course of actions by two air forces.


Uhm NO! there are many versions of what "india" believes what happened. The rest of the world believe in just ONE version...PAF smacked the living snot outta your bharat mata's vayu sena in broad daylight!

We always have been and always will be 10 steps ahead of you, be it, air, land, sea or under the sea.

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## alee92nawaz

aliyusuf said:


> I am truly astonished at the *Indian capacity for irrationalism, jingoism and megalomania*. What can you expect from a nation, where a genocidal killer of Muslims in Gujrat is elected as the PM of India. In stark contrast, no ultra right wing political force ever won anything significant here in Pakistan neither at the center nor in the provinces.
> 
> So these sort of twisted responses from Indian members should not come as a surprise to any of us and should, in fact, be expected.
> 
> All I can say to such perturbed & demented souls from across the border is that *they should re-read the post #7172 of the current thread by @The Deterrent* … and try to *analyze what is being said from their own Indian sources* by removing the cobwebs and smokescreen of Hindutva + Patriotic Propaganda.
> 
> When Abhinandan was initially captured, there were even certain Indian members who even refused to admit he was a fighter pilot by stating the unsuitability of the Abhinandan's moustache.
> 
> *For the last decade or so*, all we would get from Indian posters in almost every thread … *MKI is this and MKI is that* blah blah blah … *ad infinitum ad nauseam ad mortem*.
> 
> There favorite Bollywood terms of "ghus ke marenge", "surgical strike" and "cold start" etc., and then analyze the stark change in tone being depicted in the articles referred to by @The Deterrent in post number #7172. What brought about that change in tone? Some would say that it is a ploy for Rafales. They would be deluding themselves if they believed that. No one in there right mind would belittle their own forces and current air fleet in this manner. What would they say when they lose a Rafale in some future clash?
> 
> After 27th of Feb, it was initially silence … then sneaky excuses … then gradually culminating into characteristic twisting of facts and blind irrational urge to deny and obfuscate the truth.
> 
> Typically Indian, I guess.


Rafale ki dalali ho rahi hy. Hard to believe that Mirages , mig 29s etc etc are not good enough for india. they used to celebrate an alleged missile lock by mig 29 on an F-16 in 1999. According to them mig 21 was good enough for F-15s. They are under playing I guess. In result are just insulting their forces.

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## NA71

Kedardel said:


> By the Air strike Modi’s graph against coalition has increased manifolds. In fact there is no one near him.
> The situation for Indian forces has never been better, fighting PAF in Azad Kashmir JUST WOW. Everything is open now. Pakistan Forces will have to now take into consideration IAF strike packages during peace times. They will have to secure their non state actors as well that would mean increased costs.
> Some one attacks Mumbai, Lahor and Karachi will see action.
> Now the next Indian Govt.s will have pressure as to why they didn’t cross the boundary when Modi could.


 
Shocking ....despite beaten heavily ...your own media crying, your own experts on TV saying PAF did not deter by Indian Military might, PAF retaliated in daylight and targeted military installations, your PM & IAF chief is asking for Rafales. You are saying *JUST WOW. *

Pakistan forces will not take any consideration other than treating your pilots with fantastic tea.

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## aliyusuf

Rakesh said:


> We believe, what we want to believe. There are so many versions of what happened on that day.
> But for two professional air force, what does it mean ?
> PAF used 'almost' all types of available resources for the attack (as stated by DGISPR). So, what next ? PAF must be searching for the answer. They will have to enhance the capabilities from now onwards.
> IAF now knows, the kind of responses from PAF (or there may be some more surprises). They will bargain hard with govt for more resources.
> It will be interesting to see future course of actions by two air forces.


Have nothing against you or your post, but kindly pardon me if I don't attest your point of view. Given the decade long BS we have been getting from your fellow countrymen on this forum and the number of summersaults you people have been making of late in putting across your arguments and narratives.

May take a while before your words of bravado and narrative will carry any weight or credibility with us.

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## mshan44



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## Imran Khan

Rakesh said:


> We believe, what we want to believe. There are so many versions of what happened on that day.
> But for two professional air force, what does it mean ?
> PAF used 'almost' all types of available resources for the attack (as stated by DGISPR). So, what next ? PAF must be searching for the answer. They will have to enhance the capabilities from now onwards.
> IAF now knows, the kind of responses from PAF (or there may be some more surprises). They will bargain hard with govt for more resources.
> It will be interesting to see future course of actions by two air forces.

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## The Accountant

Oscar said:


> We’ll continue to hear counters to this info in terms of “things have changed”; but both fixes to the general obsolescence of the Sukhoi’s electronics and fighting concepts along with Rafale being integrated into their Orbat will take 5 years easily.


But similar time will be taken by Block 3, PL15 and other goodies (considering blk 3 will start joining in 2 to 3 years time and 2 to 3 years for training developing and learning tactics with new goodies) ... But we definitely need to upgrade our vipers to V standard in the similar time fram to keep a strong punch

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## mshan44

*Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash*



https://t.co/bzBqoJ4bkG

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## Rakesh

Imran Khan said:


> View attachment 550012


That exactly is puzzling (rather than loss of Su30). If I remember correctly during press conference by Indian Army, it was called an act of war, still no response. What are they waiting for ? Elections ? surprised by Pakistan response or better senses has prevailed due to influence of global players ?


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## Microsoft

mshan44 said:


> *Budgam: Indian missile fired before Mi17 V5 chopper crash*
> 
> 
> 
> https://t.co/bzBqoJ4bkG



BAHAHAHAH They did a surgical strike on themselves.

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## Imran Khan

Rakesh said:


> That exactly is puzzling (rather than loss of Su30). If I remember correctly during press conference by Indian Army, it was called an act of war, still no response. What are they waiting for ? Elections ? surprised by Pakistan response or better senses has prevailed due to influence of global players ?


they learn hard lesson now they are waiting for rafale as IAF chief and modi said


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## Rakesh

Imran Khan said:


> they learn hard lesson now they are waiting for rafale as IAF chief and modi said


Till then, Lets enjoy our 'TEA'


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## aliyusuf

The Accountant said:


> But similar time will be taken by Block 3, PL15 and other goodies (considering blk 3 will start joining in 2 to 3 years time and 2 to 3 years for training developing and learning tactics with new goodies) ... But we definitely need to upgrade our vipers to V standard in the similar time fram to keep a strong punch


Will it be a viable approach going the US route in the future, for our defence needs?
Can we do something like what Turkey is doing in their Ozgur Viper project?

Turkey has commenced retrofitting its F-16 Block 30 fleet with an indigenous mission computer and avionics developed by ASELSAN, hence enabling Turkey to integrate non-US sub-systems and avionics onto their F-16s.

F-16 Ozgur aircraft are currently on active duty with Aselsan Helmet Mounted Cuing sytems, indigenous Mission
Computer, Indigenous IFF, Aselsan MFD, ASELPOD etc.

A GaN based AESA radar is in advanced stages of development and maybe available by 2020.


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## Imran Khan

Rakesh said:


> Till then, Lets enjoy our 'TEA'


i will take breakfast first i did not drink empty stomach tea .


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## mshan44

Indian army tanks moving towards IB

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## SQ8

mshan44 said:


> Indian army tanks moving towards IB
> 
> View attachment 550019
> 
> 
> View attachment 550019
> View attachment 550020


Please thank him for the intel

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## The Accountant

No we cant ... our procurement contract do not allow us any.modification on our own ... may be in future we negotiate to remove those clauses


aliyusuf said:


> Will it be a viable approach going the US route in the future, for our defence needs?
> Can we do something like what Turkey is doing in their Ozgur Viper project?
> 
> Turkey has commenced retrofitting its F-16 Block 30 fleet with an indigenous mission computer and avionics developed by ASELSAN, hence enabling Turkey to integrate non-US sub-systems and avionics onto their F-16s.
> 
> F-16 Ozgur aircraft are currently on active duty with Aselsan Helmet Mounted Cuing sytems, indigenous Mission
> Computer, Indigenous IFF, Aselsan MFD, ASELPOD etc.
> 
> A GaN based AESA radar is in advanced stages of development and maybe available by 2020.

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## aliyusuf

The Accountant said:


> No we cant ... our procurement contract do not allow us any.modification on our own ... may be in future we negotiate to remove those clauses


Well if we want to see an AESA powered Viper, then we may have to sacrifice the contract with the US. Because I don't believe the US will allow further military sales of any sort to Pakistan. We may have to scrounge for engines parts, but electronically speaking, we will be better off in the long run.

Just my two cents.


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## The Accountant

aliyusuf said:


> Well if we want to see an AESA powered Viper, then we may have to sacrifice the contract with the US. Because I don't believe the US will allow further military sales of any sort to Pakistan. We may have to scrounge for engines parts, but electronically speaking, we will be better off in the long run.
> 
> Just my two cents.


We simply can't ... This is against global ethics and we will have problems in future rather we should lobby and use diplomacy to get that waiver and right now it is a perfect time furthermore, the moment F16 manufacturing line get closed US will have no interest to keep that clause ... So we should start pushing this now as F16 production line is expected to be closed permanently within a few years time


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## Kedardel

I think Indians know more about PAF than our Pakistani brothers. Pakistanis don’t even know PAF lost one F16.
After all Pakistani forces don’t tell casualties to its own senate, forget they will tell rest of Pakistani Citizens.
Pakistanis can know the reality of action from Indian sources. Since, India has Right to Information Act and govt. can’t hide info. Plus we have one of best mobile data rates in the world so info is easily shared. And our media is .... u know. Pakistani Establishment is concerned about Indian Media, that is why they made sure the POW says something about Indian Media.
PAF, last time in East Pakistan PAF could support their Army for only 3-4 days. At best they are only capable of giving a bloody nose when the force they are supporting is bleeding. In Western Side the similar story was repeated. So PAF is least of India’s concern. Diverting funds to unnecessary War, than for development of people is more concerning.
Please keep repeating and convincing urself that since PAF inflicted losses on IAF, there won’t be any other strike by IAF. The truth is IAF is going to visit again and again. It’s just the pilot project it will be enhanced on a scale now.
India is a country of more than a billion people, there r losses India can accept. Loss of 1000 means to ask questions on the effectiveness of system and use massive resources for revenge. We lose 1,50,000 every year to road accidents.



Trailer23 said:


> I'm not certain as to what the percentage is of the people (in India) that actually believe the Air Strikes took place in Balakot or not. And I know that you don't have a remote clue either. But then its a Indian thing, i'll leave it at that.
> I am curious as to how you have come to the conclusion that the situation of the Indian Forces has never been better... I'm actually stunned that you were able to complete that sentence with 'PAF' in it.
> What exactly is open? Do you think that Strike Packages (by any Nation) is like driving to Baskin Robbins late nite when you can't sleep...? Even (if) India were to attempt/embark on that treacherous journey, the repercussions would be precisely the same as they were on the eve of 27th Feb. You recall that day, right?!Leaving the Abhi Story aside, your IAF (coincidentally) lost 02 other equipment around that time. Hope you have a better coverup in your so-called "Strike Package in Peace Times".
> Someone attacks Mumbai...Bombay or whatever the hell you're calling it these days. Take it up with them. Your PM suffers from Diarrhea, ya'll blame Pakistan.
> As for Lahore & Karachi, those cities see action everyday. Just try getting through Saddar during rush hour...

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## Bratva

Kedardel said:


> I think Indians know more about PAF than our Pakistani brothers. Pakistanis don’t even know PAF lost one F16.
> After all Pakistani forces don’t tell casualties to its own senate, forget they will tell rest of Pakistani Citizens.
> Pakistanis can know the reality of action from Indian sources. Since, India has Right to Information Act and govt. can’t hide info. Plus we have one of best mobile data rates in the world so info is easily shared. And our media is .... u know. Pakistani Establishment is concerned about Indian Media, that is why they made sure the POW says something about Indian Media.
> PAF, last time in East Pakistan PAF could support their Army for only 3-4 days. At best they are only capable of giving a bloody nose when the force they are supporting is bleeding. In Western Side the similar story was repeated. So PAF is least of India’s concern. Diverting funds to unnecessary War, than for development of people is more concerning.
> Please keep repeating and convincing urself that since PAF inflicted losses on IAF, there won’t be any other strike by IAF. The truth is IAF is going to visit again and again. It’s just the pilot project it will be enhanced on a scale now.
> India is a country of more than a billion people, there r losses India can accept. Loss of 1000 means to ask questions on the effectiveness of system and use massive resources for revenge. We lose 1,50,000 every year to road accidents.




Where is the proof India shot one F-16 ?

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## GriffinsRule

Bhangis finally admitting to what we all knew all along ... they shot one of their own in utter chaos. I bet they will award some gallantry medal to that AD unit for its super preparedness against anything taking off from their own bases haha

Someone tell that poor father of Pankaj Kumar to lay blame exactly where it belongs, with their military and civilian leadership

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...i17-v5-chopper-crash/articleshow/68623744.cms



Bratva said:


> Where is the proof India shot one F-16 ?


Their proof is the unsubstantiated claims of their media

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## Areesh

1. Bilawal is a man
2. Zardari is a honest person
3. IAF shot down F16
4. Modi is not a mass murderer

None of the above 4 are related to each other except all of them are false

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## aliyusuf

The Accountant said:


> We simply can't ... This is against global ethics and we will have problems in future rather we should lobby and use diplomacy to get that waiver and right now it is a perfect time furthermore, the moment F16 manufacturing line get closed US will have no interest to keep that clause ... So we should start pushing this now as F16 production line is expected to be closed permanently within a few years time


I guess we have different points of view to the issue. Maybe I am looking at it from a more global and strategic angle. Based on which I believe that it is going to be a diminishing returns relationship with the US from now on. The national interests of the two are no longer convergent. It is going to be even less so moving forward. You won't get anywhere by lobbying in the US anymore. So lesser eggs we have in that basket the better off we will be in the future.

But that is my opinion. You are welcome to yours.

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## The Accountant

aliyusuf said:


> I guess we have different points of view to the issue. Maybe I am looking at it from a more global and strategic angle. Based on which I believe that it is going to be a diminishing returns relationship with the US from now on. The national interests of the two are no longer convergent. It is going to be even less so moving forward. You won't get anywhere by lobbying in the US anymore. So lesser eggs we have in that basket the better off we will be in the future.
> 
> But that is my opinion. You are welcome to yours.



No brother, you are not realizing that dishonoring the contract terms will have far greater consequences then the benefit of upgrading F16s ...

Anyways you are entitled to your opinion ...

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## Imran Khan

Bratva said:


> Where is the proof India shot one F-16 ?


ye lo ji

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## aliyusuf

Areesh said:


> 1. Bilawal is a man
> 2. Zardari is a honest person
> 3. IAF shot down F16
> 4. Modi is not a mass murderer
> 
> None of the above 4 are related to each other except all of them are false



Best post that I have come across in the last couple of days.

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## Imran Khan

Secret Service said:


> D**k pics are not allowed here. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji23][emoji23]


the best part of game was 

*after Pakistani surgical strikes and shot-down Indian fighters . Indian foreign office briefing and Indian joint forces press briefing did not allowed media to ask questions . 27feb 2019 *

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## NA71

Kedardel said:


> I think Indians know more about PAF than our Pakistani brothers. Pakistanis don’t even know PAF lost one F16.
> After all Pakistani forces don’t tell casualties to its own senate, forget they will tell rest of Pakistani Citizens.
> Pakistanis can know the reality of action from Indian sources. Since, India has Right to Information Act and govt. can’t hide info. Plus we have one of best mobile data rates in the world so info is easily shared. And our media is .... u know. Pakistani Establishment is concerned about Indian Media, that is why they made sure the POW says something about Indian Media.
> PAF, last time in East Pakistan PAF could support their Army for only 3-4 days. At best they are only capable of giving a bloody nose when the force they are supporting is bleeding. In Western Side the similar story was repeated. So PAF is least of India’s concern. Diverting funds to unnecessary War, than for development of people is more concerning.
> Please keep repeating and convincing urself that since PAF inflicted losses on IAF, there won’t be any other strike by IAF. The truth is IAF is going to visit again and again. It’s just the pilot project it will be enhanced on a scale now.
> India is a country of more than a billion people, there r losses India can accept. Loss of 1000 means to ask questions on the effectiveness of system and use massive resources for revenge. We lose 1,50,000 every year to road accidents.


 
Ohhh that is the breaking news. Bro why do you waste your (as well as ours) time by writing long posts. IAF will be welcomed again in the same fashion. 

*"So PAF is least of India’s concern" *really? read statements from your PM and IAF chief...are they in line with what you are saying?

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## Mav3rick

Bratva said:


> Where is the proof India shot one F-16 ?



It is in the fact that IAF decimated PAF after an IAF Bison downed a Falcon.

Hold on a second, IAF did not decimate PAF, infact IAF disengaged and stopped challenging PAF to the point where the PM of India had to claim that the situation would have been different if the IAF had Rafale. Not just that even the IAF chief boldly claimed that once Rafale come, PAF will not come to the border. All this is sufficient evidence that IAF was ***** by PAF in such a devastating manner that it broke all morale of IAF after which IAF most likely refused to take on PAF and thus the cessation of hostilities as Government of India had no other option but to back down.

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## Imran Khan

Kedardel said:


> Hearing Pakistani friends claim that it is a number from Taiwan, I was wondering Pakistan Taiwan Bhi pahunch gaya free ka loan lane.
> Byeee for now.


hearing from indians they have take this missile from ares of mi-17 

27 feb indian victory day pics

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## NA71

@*Imran Khan *and they shamelessly say "PAF is least of India’s concern" o koi sharam hoti hey koi haya hoti hey.

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## Maxpane

IAF ghundun main phans gai

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## Secret Service

Kedardel said:


> Hearing Pakistani friends claim that it is a number from Taiwan, I was wondering Pakistan Taiwan Bhi pahunch gaya free ka loan lane.
> Byeee for now.


Kider bhaag raha hai, Abhi none done.

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## GriffinsRule

The part of the Mi-17 shootdown by the IAF that needs to be highlighted and talked about is the locals chanting Long Live Pakistan over and over again...I mean can you show me any other country where its citizens would cheer for its one and only adversary on top of the dead bodies of its own soldiers. That should be an eye opening situation for the Indian public about how completely their governments have fucked up and failed in Kashmir. Instead they just paint all Kashmiris as terrorists so its no wonder they pray for Pakistan to show the Hindus of India where their allegiances lie.

The second part of this whole episode is that the fratricide happened using an Israeli SAM. Hmm, first their Israeli bombs failed to hit their targets, and then their missiles scored an own goal. If anything, instead of running and crying to South Africa, Sweden, the US and every other member of the UN, they should really be asking for their money back from the terrorist nation state that sold them these. So much irony.



Kedardel said:


> Sir could u notice wingco Abhi is smiling and in high spirits even after being beaten on face and bleeding. He was proud he snared F16. His video as POW was edited just after whr he mentions he was looking for targets. It’s ok Sir India is a free information society unlike some of our neighbors.
> 
> Now it’s known after enquiry, Mi 17 was fratricide, may the soul of deceased rest in peace.



Hes smiling as he is grateful Pakistan Army came to his rescue. He wasnt smiling when getting pounded in the face by the Kashmiris.

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## alee92nawaz

Imran Khan said:


> hearing from indians they have take this missile from ares of mi-17
> 
> 27 feb indian victory day pics


That's tall SSG dude. Lagta hy kha jae ga isko

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## Imran Khan

alee92nawaz said:


> That's tall SSG dude. Lagta hy kha jae ga isko


mary hoy ko kya marna abhi was already defeated

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## alee92nawaz

Kedardel said:


> Sir could u notice wingco Abhi is smiling and in high spirits even after being beaten on face and bleeding. He was proud he snared F16. His video as POW was edited just after whr he mentions he was looking for targets. It’s ok Sir India is a free information society unlike some of our neighbors.
> 
> Now it’s known after enquiry, Mi 17 was fratricide, may the soul of deceased rest in peace.


Yar giraya hy to saboot dy do. Wrna chup kr k beth jao aur rafale ka wait kro



Imran Khan said:


> mary hoy ko kya marna abhi was already defeated


Yeah. Veey badly. I felt sad for him

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## Imran Khan

alee92nawaz said:


> Yar giraya hy to saboot dy do. Wrna chup kr k beth jao aur rafale ka wait kro
> 
> 
> Yeah. Veey badly. I felt sad for him


his fall was better for south asia . its bring peace when indians face reality . its was hard hit BTW

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## alee92nawaz

Imran Khan said:


> ye lo ji


Marne walay ka jootah othaya hoa. Mentte presser 4 din bad dekhi the. Dekhne kay bad yqeen ho gaya tha ky inse F-16 ni girta

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## aliyusuf

alee92nawaz said:


> Yar giraya hy to saboot dy do. Wrna chup kr k beth jao aur rafale ka wait kro
> 
> 
> Yeah. Veey badly. I felt sad for him


Bhai, stop feeding trolls with responses.

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## Skywalker

Kedardel said:


> Hearing Pakistani friends claim that it is a number from Taiwan, I was wondering Pakistan Taiwan Bhi pahunch gaya free ka loan lane.
> Byeee for now.


Obviously we don’t sell our mothers and daughters for investments. Look at your country the rape capital of the world.

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## alphibeti

Rakesh said:


> We believe, what we want to believe. There are so many versions of what happened on that day.
> But for two professional air force, what does it mean ?
> PAF used 'almost' all types of available resources for the attack (as stated by DGISPR). So, what next ? PAF must be searching for the answer. They will have to enhance the capabilities from now onwards.
> IAF now knows, the kind of responses from PAF (or there may be some more surprises). They will bargain hard with govt for more resources.
> It will be interesting to see future course of actions by two air forces.


These versions are coming from India. We and world knows what we have done to IAF and IA. We haven't presented a stolen piece of used Taiwani AMRAAM as a proof of downing an F-16. Every one laughs at Indian fools.
Yes, we used our resources (be it our best or not) professionally to make the best of bests Indian assets (SU-30s and 'invincible' Israeli EWS) bite the dust in daylight. But it looks like Indian appetite for getting more punishment is still intact.


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## alee92nawaz

Can we arm our Mirage 3/5 rose with MICA bvr?


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## NA71

Kedardel said:


> Sir could u notice wingco Abhi is smiling and in high spirits even after being beaten on face and bleeding. He was proud he snared F16. His video as POW was edited just after whr he mentions he was looking for targets. It’s ok Sir India is a free information society unlike some of our neighbors.
> 
> Now it’s known after enquiry, Mi 17 was fratricide, may the soul of deceased rest in peace.



Free information society or mis-information society? Your own Govt will accept SU got hit..... wait.


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## Falcon26

GriffinsRule said:


> The part of the Mi-17 shootdown by the IAF that needs to be highlighted and talked about is the locals chanting Long Live Pakistan over and over again...I mean can you show me any other country where its citizens would cheer for its one and only adversary on top of the dead bodies of its own soldiers. That should be an eye opening situation for the Indian public about how completely their governments have fucked up and failed in Kashmir. Instead they just paint all Kashmiris as terrorists so its no wonder they pray for Pakistan to show the Hindus of India where their allegiances lie.
> 
> The second part of this whole episode is that the fratricide happened using an Israeli SAM. Hmm, first their Israeli bombs failed to hit their targets, and then their missiles scored an own goal. If anything, instead of running and crying to South Africa, Sweden, the US and every other member of the UN, they should really be asking for their money back from the terrorist nation state that sold them these. So much irony.
> 
> 
> 
> Hes smiling as he is grateful Pakistan Army came to his rescue. He wasnt smiling when getting pounded in the face by the Kashmiris.



Great conclusions. If I were an indian, I would be very worried how effectively the Israeli air defence misssiles were jammed and like the SU-30MKI totally taken out of the equation. The fact that the Abhi gentleman was isolated from the ground controllers and lured into a trap where he met his fate seals the argument on Pakistan’s superior electronic warfare capabilities. More than anything, this is where Pakistan surprised the Indians. The Indians are threatening to court martial their troops for this humiliation but I think they should save their anger for the countries that sold them billions of dollars worth of useless equipment.

Few years ago after the “surgical strike” India’s former NSC member Bharat Karnad wrote an article where revealed that an Indian air defence radar in Kashmir was electronically exploited and blinded by unknown country. I have posted the link but that post mysteriously disappeared both on this forum and Bharat Karnad’s website. Events of February 27 now tells us what happened.

Let the Indians talk of their mythical “300 militants killed” and “F-16 downed” stories to sooth their devastated egos. Pakistanis should be VERY happy that they have hapless country like India as their main enemy.



Imran Khan said:


> ye lo ji



If this Amraam didn’t shoot down the Mi-17, what did it shoot? It didn’t disintegrate all on its own. The Indians continue to dig a deeper hole for themselves.

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## Trailer23

Kedardel said:


> I think Indians know more about PAF than our Pakistani brothers.


Yes..., Indians know a whole lot better about Pakistan which led to 27th February.



Kedardel said:


> Pakistanis don’t even know PAF lost one F16.


I urge you to visit this Topic for clarity.
The images shown on *India Today*, are shown in High Res in this Topic by one of our *Moderators*.​https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth-of-iaf-shooting-f-16-debunked-indian-lies-exposed-again.605903/
Why did *India Today* remove that clip from YouTube & cut the interview short? Go for the facts that are being presented by your _own_ Military Experts... He certainly wasn't a Pakistani.
And if that's not enough - You have *Lockheed Martin India* (office), ever consider brining them on one of your Channels & stating that THAT wreckage belongs to an F-16. I mean they would know the difference, right?!!
Even better, if you claim that we lost a F-16..., fine. Lets have a Neutral Party do a Inventory Check on both sides. Come on, we'll show ours - if you show yours.



Kedardel said:


> Since, India has Right to Information Act and govt. can’t hide info.


Yeah, we can tell...





​


Kedardel said:


> Please keep repeating and convincing urself that since PAF inflicted losses on IAF, there won’t be any other strike by IAF. The truth is IAF is going to visit again and again. It’s just the pilot project it will be enhanced on a scale now.


We're open to it. But bear in mind, that the next time there won't be any further discussion on the following topics...:
*1. End-User Agreement:* even if you get your pet-project Rafales.
*2. Geneva Convention:* The next time it won't be for a mere 'Cup of Tea'.


Kedardel said:


> India is a country of more than a billion people, there r losses India can accept.


Yeah, you guys lost your *Air Marshal, Hari Kumar* 24hrs after showing the World the so-called piece of the Armraam. My apologies, that wasn't a loss - its called '_Retirement_' in India. Just like Abhi-Naga is called 'Hero' (only in India).
When was the last time a high-ranking official _conveniently_ recused/retired in the middle of a conflict?


Kedardel said:


> Loss of 1000 means to ask questions on the effectiveness of system and use massive resources for revenge.


Yeah..., we don't believe in Revenge - we merely get even.


Kedardel said:


> We lose 1,50,000 every year to road accidents.


Please spare us the figure on casualties you suffer on your streets. I'm pretty sure its not nearly close to the abomination the women/little girls suffer in your nation.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Oscar said:


> We’ll continue to hear counters to this info in terms of “things have changed”; but both fixes to the general obsolescence of the Sukhoi’s electronics and fighting concepts along with Rafale being integrated into their Orbat will take 5 years easily.


Layman question - the SU-30 is supposed to have Israeli, French and South African systems. Is the SU-30 facing obsolescence even with all these third party systems?

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## SABRE

*Don't know if this has been posted but India confirms Mi-17 downed by its own Israeli origin missile*
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...opper-crash/articleshow/68623744.cms?from=mdr

Over 25 PAF aircraft detected and the air defence still managed to shoot down one of its own slow moving target.


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## SQ8

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Layman question - the SU-30 is supposed to have Israeli, French and South African systems. Is the SU-30 facing obsolescence even with all these third party systems?


The specifications were finalized in the early 2000s. Israeli systems were focused on Electronic warfare, threat detection and the heads up display- french were to provide off boresight helmet and navigation.
The radar is still russian.

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## TAC

SABRE said:


> *Don't know if this has been posted but India confirms Mi-17 downed by its own Israeli origin missile*
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...opper-crash/articleshow/68623744.cms?from=mdr
> 
> Over 25 PAF aircraft detected and the air defence still managed to shoot down one of its own slow moving target.



So now they are confirming what retired AVM Lateef was saying weeks ago, that this heli was downed by Indian friendly fire. He was laughing at the incompetence shown by the IAF and saying how the sacking of that senior IAF official was proof of that incompetence. Guess he must also be right about the SU30 downed at the same time!

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## Thorough Pro

PAF didn't sent 25 aircraft.

Only 4 mirages for ground attack and only 4 thunders for CAS.

There were some more doings CAPS isside the border as they have been doing for days that since the tensions raised






SABRE said:


> *Don't know if this has been posted but India confirms Mi-17 downed by its own Israeli origin missile*
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...opper-crash/articleshow/68623744.cms?from=mdr
> 
> Over 25 PAF aircraft detected and the air defence still managed to shoot down one of its own slow moving target.


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## SABRE

Thorough Pro said:


> PAF didn't sent 25 aircraft.
> 
> Only 4 mirages for ground attack and only 4 thunders for CAS.
> 
> *There were some more doings CAPS isside the border as they have been doing for days that since the tensions raised*



That's what they were probably picking up counting around 25.

Downing of their own chopper with Israeli missile might suggest that the Israeli systems have not been very well incorporated into Indian military. They might need - and probably have - Israeli operators and consultants based there to make use of these systems.


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## ziaulislam

GriffinsRule said:


> The part of the Mi-17 shootdown by the IAF that needs to be highlighted and talked about is the locals chanting Long Live Pakistan over and over again...I mean can you show me any other country where its citizens would cheer for its one and only adversary on top of the dead bodies of its own soldiers. That should be an eye opening situation for the Indian public about how completely their governments have fucked up and failed in Kashmir. Instead they just paint all Kashmiris as terrorists so its no wonder they pray for Pakistan to show the Hindus of India where their allegiances lie.
> 
> The second part of this whole episode is that the fratricide happened using an Israeli SAM. Hmm, first their Israeli bombs failed to hit their targets, and then their missiles scored an own goal. If anything, instead of running and crying to South Africa, Sweden, the US and every other member of the UN, they should really be asking for their money back from the terrorist nation state that sold them these. So much irony.
> 
> 
> 
> Hes smiling as he is grateful Pakistan Army came to his rescue. He wasnt smiling when getting pounded in the face by the Kashmiris.


You are missing the point

Indians know that Kashmir is a forceful iron hand occupation but they don't care



Kedardel said:


> I think Indians know more about PAF than our Pakistani brothers. Pakistanis don’t even know PAF lost one F16.
> After all Pakistani forces don’t tell casualties to its own senate, forget they will tell rest of Pakistani Citizens.
> Pakistanis can know the reality of action from Indian sources. Since, India has Right to Information Act and govt. can’t hide info. Plus we have one of best mobile data rates in the world so info is easily shared. And our media is .... u know. Pakistani Establishment is concerned about Indian Media, that is why they made sure the POW says something about Indian Media.
> PAF, last time in East Pakistan PAF could support their Army for only 3-4 days. At best they are only capable of giving a bloody nose when the force they are supporting is bleeding. In Western Side the similar story was repeated. So PAF is least of India’s concern. Diverting funds to unnecessary War, than for development of people is more concerning.
> Please keep repeating and convincing urself that since PAF inflicted losses on IAF, there won’t be any other strike by IAF. The truth is IAF is going to visit again and again. It’s just the pilot project it will be enhanced on a scale now.
> India is a country of more than a billion people, there r losses India can accept. Loss of 1000 means to ask questions on the effectiveness of system and use massive resources for revenge. We lose 1,50,000 every year to road accidents.


Why stop at one..why not say 5..india credibility is down the drain with balakot strikes

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## araz

NA71 said:


> @*Imran Khan *and they shamelessly say "PAF is least of India’s concern" o koi sharam hoti hey koi haya hoti hey.


IAF main kuch nahi hoti is qisam ki baat.
A

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## Thorough Pro

@mods @waz

Can you please edit the title header replacing "Breaking#" with "Feb 27"
It's not breaking news anymore and every time I look at it, it sounds like new clashes.

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## Secret Service

TAC said:


> So now they are confirming what retired AVM Lateef was saying weeks ago, that this heli was downed by Indian friendly fire. He was laughing at the incompetence shown by the IAF and saying how the sacking of that senior IAF official was proof of that incompetence. Guess he must also be right about the SU30 downed at the same time!



you are right. Shahid latif said on the same very day. he also confirmed the kill of Su 30

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## NA71

Thorough Pro said:


> PAF didn't sent 25 aircraft.
> 
> Only 4 mirages for ground attack and only 4 thunders for CAS.
> 
> There were some more doings CAPS isside the border as they have been doing for days that since the tensions raised


Yes, absolutely, Strike package bheyja tha.....baraat nahein bheyji the.

Karachi is under CAP since 8:00pm ....is it normal?


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## m52k85

alee92nawaz said:


> Can we arm our Mirage 3/5 rose with MICA bvr?


Just the Rose 1 with Darter


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## Trango Towers

NA71 said:


> let see how our senior members take on this latest development. someone is telling on s/media that India is trying to stretch the air battle to rajhistan border....what is the significance of it ?


I think Pakistan has it covered. Dont worry.



NA71 said:


> Indian media quoting Mr. Divol is not comfortable with current situation he is pressing for more punishment to Pak. there are voices within BJP suggesting for de-escalation.


More punishment....this is good...come and drop a few more migs and sukois in pakistan


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## Windjammer

It's not over yet hence PAF hasn't held a press brief yet as it would be premature.
India is both damaged and humiliated and desperate to salvage it's tattered image by scoring with something like the Atantique incident. However PAF is very much on top of things ready to hit back even harder.

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## Dazzler

Rakesh said:


> We believe, what we want to believe. There are so many versions of what happened on that day.
> But for two professional air force, what does it mean ?
> PAF used 'almost' all types of available resources for the attack (as stated by DGISPR). So, what next ? PAF must be searching for the answer. They will have to enhance the capabilities from now onwards.
> IAF now knows, the kind of responses from PAF (or there may be some more surprises). They will bargain hard with govt for more resources.
> It will be interesting to see future course of actions by two air forces.



The most defeatist post i have seen on this board in a while. The moment you reduce yourself to this level, your narrative goes down the drain.

Naivety to the core.

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## Liquidmetal

More Indian rubbish. However, we also need some Pak journo doing a similar type of video dispassionately narrating the true events and of course all the bits the Shekhar conveniently forgets.


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## Dazzler

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Layman question - the SU-30 is supposed to have Israeli, French and South African systems. Is the SU-30 facing obsolescence even with all these third party systems?



No, just a lame excuse for face saving purpose. It is a pretty decent system and has the potential to take on most modern fighters with its current suit of systems.


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## NA71

Liquidmetal said:


> More Indian rubbish. However, we also need some Pak journo doing a similar type of video dispassionately narrating the true events and of course all the bits the Shekhar conveniently forgets.



Sir this is what i am saying since one month. actually our news outlets do not have the reach compare to our enemy propaganda machine . ISPR should also open a branch for info-warfare. Train your keyboard warriors to dilute information as they are doing ....trolling will not work.


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## ziaulislam

Liquidmetal said:


> More Indian rubbish. However, we also need some Pak journo doing a similar type of video dispassionately narrating the true events and of course all the bits the Shekhar conveniently forgets.


What is this nutjob saying can you summarized 
My ears hurt when i listen to him


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## Globalwarrior

Indians spanked 
Crying now
Put a pacifier in


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## The Eagle

NA71 said:


> Sir this is what i am saying since one month. actually our news outlets do not have the reach compare to our enemy propaganda machine . ISPR should also open a branch for info-warfare. Train your keyboard warriors to dilute information as they are doing ....trolling will not work.



Media is busy here with political dramas and earning big. ISPR can't stretch itself for more. However, ISPR alone has done that whole Indian Media couldn't do so or even counter except the drama. The world is witness as what really happened and Indian propaganda has been busted hence, a new drama on every single day. Rather, a timely information like ISPR already did, will serve the purpose more accurately. Also, having all the evidences and proof pushes enemy's warfare a bit down as compare to totally unchecked. We can't expect much for Pakistani media association in this regard as either most of political paid for respective campaigns and rest are willing to earn their bread & butter.

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## Trailer23

@Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @hassan1 @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Thorough Pro @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex

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## _Sherdils_

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 550137
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @hassan1 @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Thorough Pro @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex



Haha amazing!

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## Jinn Baba

The Eagle said:


> Media is busy here with political dramas and earning big. ISPR can't stretch itself for more. However, ISPR alone has done that whole Indian Media couldn't do so or even counter except the drama. The world is witness as what really happened and Indian propaganda has been busted hence, a new drama on every single day. Rather, a timely information like ISPR already did, will serve the purpose more accurately. Also, having all the evidences and proof pushes enemy's warfare a bit down as compare to totally unchecked. We can't expect much for Pakistani media association in this regard as either most of political paid for respective campaigns and rest are willing to earn their bread & butter.



India lost, so they are doing whatever they can to convince their public otherwise. Their own government and armed forces are leaking BS as sources every day so they have stories to run.

Pak won. Our media portrayed it well. There is nothing for us to now prove, and neither our government nor armed forces are peddling lies or info to the media to run.

So just this once, I think criticism of our media is unnecessary.

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## Vortex

I love the finger shown by the JF-17’s pilot.

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## Dubious

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 550137
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @hassan1 @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Thorough Pro @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex


Should have been the one with cup-o-tea...Something like have chai with us

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## crankthatskunk

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 550137
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @hassan1 @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Thorough Pro @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex



Classic. One suggestion, the Mig21 should be upside down and hanging by Abhi's mustaches.

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## Trailer23

crankthatskunk said:


> Classic. One suggestion, the Mig21 should be upside down and hanging by Abhi's mustaches.


Take a closer look at our Pilot... .


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## NA71



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## crankthatskunk

Trailer23 said:


> Take a closer look at our Pilot... .



That's thumps up sign!!


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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 550137


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## Trailer23

crankthatskunk said:


> That's thumps up sign!!


I take it you've never seen the first 10mins of '_Top Gun_'.



Dubious said:


> Should have been the one with cup-o-tea...Something like have chai with us


At the request of the *boss*..., with a different logo.

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## HRK

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 550137
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @hassan1 @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Thorough Pro @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex


hahahahahah .....

have you designe it ....???


----------



## Trailer23

HRK said:


> hahahahahah .....
> 
> have you designe it ....???


My name is on the side & now there are 02 versions of it - so yes, its my work.

This one took me like 40mins in total.

I have another one pretty much the same - which took me 02 days to master, only difference is that it has an F-16 & Su-30MKi & it was designed for a t-shirt. The front has a different artwork of #9 Griffins etc.

Keeping that for the Dubai Airshow later this year.

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## _Sherdils_

Trailer23 said:


> My name is on the side & now there are 02 versions of it - so yes, its my work.
> 
> This one took me like 40mins in total.
> 
> I have another one pretty much the same - which took me 02 days to master, only difference is that it has an F-16 & Su-30MKi & it was designed for a t-shirt. The front has a different artwork of #9 Griffins etc.
> 
> Keeping that for the Dubai Airshow later this year.


Waiting for that one to come out.


----------



## Trailer23

_Sherdils_ said:


> Waiting for that one to come out.


If I get a sponsor (to finance my pet project) - I have an arsenal of designs for a number of our Squadrons which I want to be Licensed by the PAF. Its a long shot, but the printing would be *DTG* (Direct To Garment) printing or *Screen Printing*.

One such design i'm working on is on the *88th Squadron* (_Agusta AW139_) & it would look something like...

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## alphibeti

SABRE said:


> That's what they were probably picking up counting around 25.
> 
> Downing of their own chopper with Israeli missile might suggest that the Israeli systems have not been very well incorporated into Indian military. They might need - and probably have - Israeli operators and consultants based there to make use of these systems.


Who knows? It might very well be the case that an Israeli operator actually shot down that MI-17. After all, Israelis are actively participating on Indian side during/before the this face off.



Liquidmetal said:


> More Indian rubbish. However, we also need some Pak journo doing a similar type of video dispassionately narrating the true events and of course all the bits the Shekhar conveniently forgets.


Still struggling to find an evidence for imaginary Balakot air strike? What Indians could manage to do (before the PAF reached to challenge the intruders) was to breach the LoC by about 5 Km. When Indians saw PAF approaching, they ran back by dropping their bombs in jungle in haste. But the grave violation was deemed by Pakistan as an act of aggression (and that's what it indeed was) and so Pak retaliated with devastating effect on IAF. You don't need to struggle to see the evidence (actually the Indian losses) for Pak air strike. I am sure Indians have resorted to mouth farts regarding further aggression against Pakistan. But the reality is We have smashed their balls 



Dubious said:


> Should have been the one with cup-o-tea...Something like have chai with us


Or at least print the cup of tea with Abhi mustaches on the fuselage (under the canopy) on Mig-21.

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## crankthatskunk

Trailer23 said:


> I take it you've never seen the first 10mins of '_Top Gun_'.



I/ am afraid bro, Top Gun is an old movie. 
My computer (read brain) doesn't work that far. 
Short of memory. P


----------



## alee92nawaz

m52k85 said:


> Just the Rose 1 with Darter


Why not mica? Any details on that?


----------



## khansaheeb

NA71 said:


>


lol, a piece of cake for PAF!

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## graphican

"Visit Pakistan, your tea is on us".



---------------------
Just thinking that Pakistan can expand on this hospitality message and offer all tourists free tea (and well made one) at the airport. This costs little, but has huge publicity aspect to it. 

I hope somebody in the ministry of tourism tries this on some airport.

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## Arsalan

Trailer23 said:


> If I get a sponsor (to finance my pet project) - I have an arsenal of designs for a number of our Squadrons which I want to be Licensed by the PAF. Its a long shot, but the printing would be *DTG* (Direct To Garment) printing or *Screen Printing*.
> 
> One such design i'm working on is on the *88th Squadron* (_Agusta AW139_) & it would look something like...
> 
> View attachment 550143


Where do you intend to get it DTG printed? Normally the local DTG printing is not very good and do not lasts long.


----------



## Rakesh

Dazzler said:


> The most defeatist post i have seen on this board in a while. The moment you reduce yourself to this level, your narrative goes down the drain.
> 
> Naivety to the core.


It is a forum not battle ground, try to look beyond.


----------



## mshan44

*Indian Army reinforces its formations along International Border in Rajasthan and Punjab*



*https://zeenews.india.com/india/ind...l-border-in-rajasthan-and-punjab-2191208.html*


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Liquidmetal said:


> More Indian rubbish. However, we also need some Pak journo doing a similar type of video dispassionately narrating the true events and of course all the bits the Shekhar conveniently forgets.


within 20 minutes he was neutral and still his conclusion is:
Despite no proof all indian claims are correct but none of Pakistan claim is correct despite showing proves.


----------



## Shabi1

Rakesh said:


> It is a forum not battle ground, try to look beyond.



What makes you think PAF isn't hiding more aces up it's sleeve. More capabilities coming and things will not stay idle. For eg future PL-10 and PL-15 equipped backbone fleet of PAF is a bigger threat for InAF rather than the Rafael threat to PAF..

Difference now is myth of unchallenged superiority of InAF is broken. Mi-17 own kill now acknowledged and more things will be clarified as time passes.

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Liquidmetal said:


> More Indian rubbish. However, we also need some Pak journo doing a similar type of video dispassionately narrating the true events and of course all the bits the Shekhar conveniently forgets.


i can answer all of his questions but i don't think its needed. Because the side wiining is silient because it is confident on its achievement and have no doubt, and the side which lost the battle is still trying to find some argument.

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## Maxpane

Trailer23 said:


> I take it you've never seen the first 10mins of '_Top Gun_'.
> 
> 
> At the request of the *boss*..., with a different logo.
> 
> View attachment 550142


amazing


----------



## NA71

If you look at Indian newspapers, every 2nd news heading contains word "Pakistan" they have gone perfectly Pakistan Phobic

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## Bratva

*IAF’s plan for Meteor on Su-30 MKI and Tejas goes kaput
*
The IAF’s initial plan to equip the Su-30 MKI and the Tejas with Meteor has gone kaput because the European firm, MBDA, refused to integrate them.

The MBDA told the IAF that it cannot integrate the missile, with a range of over 120 km and a no-escape zone of 60 km, on a Russian platform or the Tejas, which uses Israeli radar.

However, following heavy negotiations between the European firm and the IAF, the MBDA has agreed to reconsider once indigenous AESA radar, manufactured by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), is installed on board the Tejas Mark 1A or Mark II

https://theprint.in/defence/after-b...craft-with-long-range-meteor-missiles/214587/



*Black box of Mi-17 chopper that crashed in Srinagar, goes missing*
ANI
PublishedMar 30, 2019, 9:49 am IST
UpdatedMar 30, 2019, 11:39 am IST

The Mi-17 had taken off from Srinagar on February 27 around the time when the Pak Air Force aircraft launched an aerial attack on India.




The helicopter that crashed near Budgam on February 27 killing six personnel on board, is missing and the Indian Air Force is searching for it. (Photo: ANI)
New Delhi: The crucial black box, flight data recorder, of the Mi-17 helicopter that crashed near Budgam on February 27 killing six personnel on board, is missing and the Indian Air Force is searching for it.

“The black box has gone missing after the crash and we are trying to locate it. It is possible that it has been taken away by the hostile locals, who have taken away many other parts as well,” sources in the Air Force said.




The Mi-17 had taken off from Srinagar on February 27 around the time when the Pakistan Air Force aircraft launched an aerial attack on India but failed to strike any targets due to a swift response by India.

The black box of an aircraft is crucial to know the sequence of events before an accident or a crash as it provides complete details of the happenings.
Recently, the reason for the crash of a Mirage-2000 was found out after the data in the black box was extracted in France.

“On 27 February 2019, one Mi-17 V5 helicopter of Indian Air Force got airborne from Srinagar airfield at 1000 hrs for a routine mission. The helicopter crashed around 1010 hrs near Budgam, J-K. All six air warriors on board the helicopter suffered fatal injuries. A court of inquiry has been ordered to investigate the accident,” the Air Force had stated in its statement.

Media reports have suggested that an air defence missile had been fired from Srinagar soon before the crash of the Mi-17 took place.

The reports suggest that the investigation in the matter is trying to connect the dots in the entire episode.

IAF officials said the court of inquiry into the accident is still going on and has not yet concluded about the real cause of the accident.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nat...tPromotion&utm_medium=end&utm_campaign=latest

*Balakot proof is ‘blowin in the wind', Pakistan doesn't want to see it, says IAF chief BS Dhanoa*

*https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/newsindia/balakot-proof-is-blowin-in-the-wind-pakistan-doesnt-want-to-see-it-says-iaf-chief-bs-dhanoa/ar-BBVpks2?ocid=spartanntp*


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## Trailer23

Arsalan said:


> Where do you intend to get it DTG printed? Normally the local DTG printing is not very good and do not lasts long.


Well, I hope you're not confusing DTG with Heat Transfer because that sucks. Usually (design) printed on a A4 Paper & pasted on a shirt via heat.

But the DTG is fairly new & their equipment is expensive & printing through laser - for life. I've found a place in Dubai that will do minimum pieces (for me ).


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## NA71

see this

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## untitled

NA71 said:


> see this
> View attachment 550221


Nice meme but an Indian Mirage 2000 should have been used


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## Arsalan

Trailer23 said:


> Well, I hope you're not confusing DTG with Heat Transfer because that sucks. Usually (design) printed on a A4 Paper & pasted on a shirt via heat.
> 
> But the DTG is fairly new & their equipment is expensive & printing through laser - for life. I've found a place in Dubai that will do minimum pieces (for me ).


No dear i am not confusing it with screen or heat transfer. Now you mentioned Dubai and i understand what you have got/found 

BTW, just out of curiosity, what MOQ have they agreed on? Per design that is!


----------



## Trailer23

Arsalan said:


> No dear i am not confusing it with screen or heat transfer. Now you mentioned Dubai and i understand what you have got/found
> 
> BTW, just out of curiosity, what MOQ have they agreed on? Per design that is!


I can get one done... It'll cost like Dhs. 60/- for each side. Naturally, that is expensive but for one piece, its okay 'cause it for myself. If I were to do in bulk - there are plenty of places in Karachi (SITE) that have done work for Real Tree & a number of sports franchises (NBA, NFL, NCAA) for export.

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## Arsalan

Trailer23 said:


> I can get one done... It'll cost like Dhs. 60/- for each side. Naturally, that is expensive but for one piece, its okay 'cause it for myself. If I were to do in bulk - there are plenty of places in Karachi (SITE) that have done work for Real Tree & a number of sports franchises (NBA, NFL, NCAA) for export.


60 Dhs as you said is ok for personal use not commercial. I was more interested in commercial rate and MOQ Anyway, thanks.


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## Axis Of Logic

Bratva said:


> The black box has gone missing after the crash and we are trying to locate it. It is possible that it has been *taken away by the hostile locals*, who have taken away many other parts as well,” sources in the Air Force said.


Now blame us! What do we know what's black box and what purpose does it serve? A loser has always an excuse!


----------



## scionofPakwattan

does anyone thing, there's any chance Pakistan will share the Electronic data collected on 27th Feb and the day earlier with China to make sure we stay ahead in the cluttered electronic signal space?


----------



## NA71

someone asking (in previous posts) for reference on Gazwa e Hind:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/authentic-hadees-reference-of-ghazwa-e-hind.401147/ see post 11.


----------



## Trailer23

Arsalan said:


> 60 Dhs as you said is ok for personal use not commercial. I was more interested in commercial rate and MOQ Anyway, thanks.


I can do a lil' digging. But the thing about DTG is they always want to see the print prior to giving a quote. But i'll ask around market tomorrow & get back to you on the MOQ.


Arsalan said:


> Now you mentioned Dubai and i understand what you have got/found


Really, care to share...


----------



## Thorough Pro

More you lie, more you speak to cover them, more you speak, more you lie to sound authentic. a vicious cycle and Indians keep digging themselves deeper and deeper 







Liquidmetal said:


> More Indian rubbish. However, we also need some Pak journo doing a similar type of video dispassionately narrating the true events and of course all the bits the Shekhar conveniently forgets.

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## untitled

Page 124 of this thread is worth revisiting

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## undercover JIX




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## Mutakalim

Trailer23 said:


> I take it you've never seen the first 10mins of '_Top Gun_'.
> 
> 
> At the request of the *boss*..., with a different logo.
> 
> View attachment 550142


Great job bro, keep it up


----------



## 帅的一匹

Imran Khan said:


>


a loser can become a hero only in India.

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## Dr. Abdul Basit

I Think Abhinandan bechara khamosh ha, may be he is saying i never fired a missile, but indians are saying that he did and shot a Pakistani F-16 lol

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## NA71

On page 126 @kursed was the first person on earth who posted "SU30 taken out by JF-17"

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## zainkhan24

Nicely done.

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## Han Patriot

wanglaokan said:


> a loser can become a hero only in India.


Well they worship a chaiwalla and Trump as god, what do you expect? =)

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## lutfishah

India lost another jet but this time MiG 27 in Rajestan.. Altogether 4 jets in 2 months.

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## Secret Service

Just revisited this thread from *Post # 124 onward... Pure BLISS*

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## Evora

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112254289219604480

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## Ali_Baba

zainkhan24 said:


> Nicely done.



Nice. Hopefully it will come out on Bluray so i can pickup a copy !!!


----------



## untitled

zainkhan24 said:


> Nicely done.


Mountain Dew is sponsoring this movie in Pakistan. Mountian Dew should be banned in India


----------



## Slides

Evora said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112254289219604480



That looks like a recreated crash site.


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## Winchester

Indians after page 126.

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## Yaseen1

Although they falsely claim one jet as f16 but it shows clear evidence of 2jets downed

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## 1Paki$tani

Starting this thread to discuss Air Craft losses by Indian on 27 February 2019. I became real curious after seeing the report of Indian Mig-27 going down in Rajistan, same area where their Mig-21 went down few weeks back.

If Indian had lost more than 1 Mig or planes they needed to cover up the wreckage and the best way would be disguise it as air craft down due to mechanical fault or bird strike.

The current Mig 27 crash site seems to be re-created as the wreckage is not in piece, the heaviest part not leaving any crater. There is no evidence on the ground to suggest it was a crash and there is no sign to suggest it was mid-air break up at that place. All the pictures suggest that those items were placed there.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112254289219604480
This is Mig 27 Crash site.

This was compared to previous MIG-27 crash


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112265353965568001
Or even MIG-21 that was shotdown. The crash site is entire different from the this crash.

So if the crash was re-created, than why? Air losses due to Mechanical failure are not unusually for Indian its a common occurrence. So why re-create the crash site unless it is to hide something that they do not want their public know such as it being shot down. Which would than take us to the question in the title of the thread. How Many air crafts did they lose on 27 Feb.

We also have to review the fact that the original death toll in chopper crash was only 2 but in the evening it was increased to 6. Ie there is increase of 4, which could be loss of pilots in Air Crafts that were shot down.

We also need to review the audio from PAF pilot (apparently) saying we are only seeing 30% of the damage.

In addition to all this the cry that came from IAF Chief and Modi that if they had Rafale than the result would have been different. Which would mean their current inventory was taken care off.

The confirmed / semi-confirmed information is 1 Mig 21 and 1 Su-30. PAF Patches confirm that. But could it be that they lost more planes that day and now day by day we will see more created crash sites to cover up those losses.

....................................................................

PS: All this is speculative, so has been other stuff discussed for last month.

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## PDFChamp

You raise very good questions. We may never know especially due to Indian media's fake news factories. Pakistan won. And, no one can deny that. 

I vote to move on to discuss something more productive rather than continue to rehash how bad India lost. We know they lost big but won't publicly admit to their losses. 

Pak is getting good press because of the way IK handled the situation by sounding like the smarter one and releasing their pilot to give peace a chance. Now, if Modi still does something again in the next month or so, he will have a bigger backlash in the int'l media. Not everyone is on India's payroll.

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## GriffinsRule

So we already acknowledged shooting down two aircraft so not sure what PAF is covering up.
The video and analysis are fine, but I still dont know how you jump from a 2nd aircraft being shot to it being an F-16. Technically it could be a JF-17 (easier to hide for PAF), a Mirages 2000, another Mig-21 (easier to hide), or an Su-30 (also easy to hide).


----------



## Yaseen1

i not agree with indian claim of downing f16 but this video was made by indians so that is why person speaking in video making this claim but if you see video at end it become evident that one jet downed was shot down in close combat and no bvr is used for that as near downing jet other flying jet can be seen turning in a direction


GriffinsRule said:


> So we already acknowledged shooting down two aircraft so not sure what PAF is covering up.
> The video and analysis are fine, but I still dont know how you jump from a 2nd aircraft being shot to it being an F-16. Technically it could be a JF-17 (easier to hide for PAF), a Mirages 2000, another Mig-21 (easier to hide), or an Su-30 (also easy to hide).


----------



## Riz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112447013352812544
Epic trolling by Maj Asif ghafoor..

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## Shabi1

Now official your second pilot is dead.




__ https://www.facebook.com/





Looks like more will be revealed near election. on 5th April Army Chief briefing the parliament on the issue.

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## Shabi1

Now official second pilot is dead.




__ https://www.facebook.com/





Looks like more will be revealed near election. on 5th April Army Chief briefing the parliament on the issue.


----------



## Comrade

One thing is for sure, Su30Mki's air superiority was destroyed here. 
follow this link to know more...


----------



## MystryMan

Mig-27 is ground attack jet, unlikely it is involved with any action against PAF.


----------



## Oruc

Comrade said:


> One thing is for sure, Su30Mki's air superiority was destroyed here.
> follow this link to know more...


which link bro?


----------



## Secret Service

Shabi1 said:


> Now official second pilot is dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like more will be revealed near election. on 5th April Army Chief briefing the parliament on the issue.


Link not found.
Any details of his rank and name, body returned or not ?


----------



## crankthatskunk

@1Paki$tani @MastanKhan 

I have raised these points and many more on different threads for over 4 weeks now. Most people show resistance. Working on basis that "absence of evidence is no evidence". Ignoring that sometimes "absence of evidence is the biggest evidence". Displaying the strong possibility that the evidence is suppressed purposefully. 

In my opinion working on the known facts, the possibilities in the light of the known facts and my analysis of the known facts. The Indian losses were, according to the different pieces in the media.

1- Confirmed kill of Abhi Mig 21 Bison.

2- 2nd Bison going down in IoK on 27th Feb was definitely another PAF killed, not claimed because it was down on the other side, PAF may have a video, or if it was killed by a BVR missile, may be no conclusive video evidence available, therefore, PAF decided not to take the credit. They may have the evidence, which they may disclose later.

3- Mi 17 according to me is a kill too. Despite the claim by India that it was downed by friendly fire.

4- Su 30 kill. All the speculation apart but PAF and Turkish pilot wearing badges to show SU 30 kills gives the hint that it was downed by PAF. Otherwise PAF's higher ups would have stopped pilots wearing those badges. PAF may have proofs which could be presented later.

5- Yesterday's Mig 27 "crash" is curious. All the indications are the wreckage was placed there. Now Qs are that why would IAF do that!!! Unless they have something to hide. It is stupid to think that IAF had a wreckage ready from supposed "another crash" which they have now decided to place in Rajahistan without any valid reasons. 
I don't think that any sensible person will buy this narrative. Hence, there are possibilities, that it may have been shot down on 27th, if not in the IoK sector then further down south. I am saying this because someone thinks that no Mig 27 were stationed in North West sector by IAF. We know on 26th and 27th there were air activities further south along international borders with India. 

This is the score based on the media reports until now according to my analysis of these reports. 
What comes forward in next few weeks remain to be seen. Some suggested that may be a crash of Su30 is coming soon. If that is the case, which I also think is a good possibility then we would be certain of the game played by IAF to hide their failures on 27th Feb.

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## AfrazulMandal

MystryMan said:


> Mig-27 is ground attack jet, unlikely it is involved with any action against PAF.


But we still flew it hoping to do something. And paid the price.



1Paki$tani said:


> Starting this thread to discuss Air Craft losses by Indian on 27 February 2019. I became real curious after seeing the report of Indian Mig-27 going down in Rajistan, same area where their Mig-21 went down few weeks back.
> 
> If Indian had lost more than 1 Mig or planes they needed to cover up the wreckage and the best way would be disguise it as air craft down due to mechanical fault or bird strike.
> 
> The current Mig 27 crash site seems to be re-created as the wreckage is not in piece, the heaviest part not leaving any crater. There is no evidence on the ground to suggest it was a crash and there is no sign to suggest it was mid-air break up at that place. All the pictures suggest that those items were placed there.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112254289219604480
> This is Mig 27 Crash site.
> 
> This was compared to previous MIG-27 crash
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112265353965568001
> Or even MIG-21 that was shotdown. The crash site is entire different from the this crash.
> 
> So if the crash was re-created, than why? Air losses due to Mechanical failure are not unusually for Indian its a common occurrence. So why re-create the crash site unless it is to hide something that they do not want their public know such as it being shot down. Which would than take us to the question in the title of the thread. How Many air crafts did they lose on 27 Feb.
> 
> We also have to review the fact that the original death toll in chopper crash was only 2 but in the evening it was increased to 6. Ie there is increase of 4, which could be loss of pilots in Air Crafts that were shot down.
> 
> We also need to review the audio from PAF pilot (apparently) saying we are only seeing 30% of the damage.
> 
> In addition to all this the cry that came from IAF Chief and Modi that if they had Rafale than the result would have been different. Which would mean their current inventory was taken care off.
> 
> The confirmed / semi-confirmed information is 1 Mig 21 and 1 Su-30. PAF Patches confirm that. But could it be that they lost more planes that day and now day by day we will see more created crash sites to cover up those losses.
> 
> ....................................................................
> 
> PS: All this is speculative, so has been other stuff discussed for last month.


Possibly 11 aircraft in all

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## Khafee

AfrazulMandal said:


> Possibly 11 aircraft in all


Since Feb27, seems right.

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## AfrazulMandal

Khafee said:


> Since Feb27, seems right.


Precisely.


----------



## alee92nawaz

Comrade said:


> One thing is for sure, Su30Mki's air superiority was destroyed here.
> follow this link to know more...


Don't under estimate the enemy. Although flanker did disappoint. Instead of attacking PAF, it was busy trying to save it's own assss. Even though they claim that 2 sukhois thwarted 8 F-16

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## 1Paki$tani

AfrazulMandal said:


> Possibly 11 aircraft in all


you can chose and quote any number. I did put disclaimer at end of my post to show that it is all speculative. 

However, as per your own official agency the wreckage is of MIG27. 

The way the wreckage is spread out it would only show that the plane fell apart in mid air and it did not crash in one piece. Now going by all that look at the engine piece and see how heavy it is. If it fell from sky even from 100m it would have made crater but there is no evidence of that. 

So why would Indian place this wreckage and create crash site?


----------



## Ghost 125

1 Mig 21 , 1 MI 17 Confirm, 1 SU 30 (un confirmed)
rest is bullshit and fan fiction


----------



## Ghost 125

Yaseen1 said:


> Although they falsely claim one jet as f16 but it shows clear evidence of 2jets downed


ok these videos proves nothing nd absolutely nothing is clear in them...ab jese marzi commentry kar lo in par , chahay to F22 bhi gira lo is pe

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## Umair Nawaz

they had lost atleast 5 jets that day, while we just claimed 2 to not disturb the nuclear escalation ladder.

Remember! there r atleast 3 known crash sights in IOK which made it to Social and international media, while Pakistan said out of the two one was shot down in AJK and second in IOK., these were mig21 and Su30.

And thats besides that helicopter that we made them blew up themselves with their israeli missile killing 7 of their experienced pilots.

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## HawkEye27

Guys! Lets grab some popcorn

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## NA71

great....It should be via presser. with more hints ...to keep Indian media busy in crazy debate

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## crankthatskunk

tipu_ssw said:


> Guys! Lets grab some popcorn
> 
> View attachment 550724



This headline is been in the news for last 2/3 hours.
At last GD ISPR is getting straight in the faces of the Indians. 
All their lies were getting unanswered. That's the approach I wanted and had been arguing about. 
Indians would not learn without Pakistanis being tough with them. The Indians lie on every step of the way. 
They were trying to pressurise Pakistan by raising the issue of use of F16 ever since 27th Feb. It took 5/6 weeks for the ISPR to put the Indians straight. 
This should be Pakistan's policy with India always. 
Every time an incident happen in Pakistan, we should also straight away put the blame squarely on India. Their terror networks in Afghanistan. The only reason Pakistan doesn't do it because of American pressure. They are sitting and controlling Afghanistan, therefore, Pakistanis blaming the terror networks inside Afghanistan and their camps run by NDS and RAW to attack Pakistan, becomes American responsibilities. 
We shouldn't worry about the Americans and blame Indians and Afghan NDS each and every time terror strikes Pakistan.

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## HawkEye27

tipu_ssw said:


> Guys! Lets grab some popcorn
> 
> View attachment 550724



JF-17 - The Striker Another victory patch hints about the bombs being used to @@@@@ Indians

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## WarKa DaNG

Why indians are not complaining to israel for the missiles that shot their own heli

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## WarKa DaNG

Arey bhai bas karo in mig aur sukhoi se inke qabar tak jan nikalo ge

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## ajpirzada

this is the best evidence i have seen so far that two jets were shot down on this day...

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## ProudPak

Yaseen1 said:


> Although they falsely claim one jet as f16 but it shows clear evidence of 2jets downed


Is it not equally possible that india is ying and that 2ns aircraft is an su30mki and india is bluffing. How can he tell from that video that its an f16

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## Slides

The key to the second plane is where is W/C Abhis wingman? Mig-21 on his own across LoC doesn't make much sense.

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## siegecrossbow

tipu_ssw said:


> Guys! Lets grab some popcorn
> 
> View attachment 550724



If I understand this correctly, since F-16s were only used within Pakistanis Air Space, its use technically didn't constitute as a violation?


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## Trailer23

Special thanx to @tipu_ssw for brining this to our attention earlier today.

While reading the *ISPR Press Release*, I focused on the *3* things (highlighted)...

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## crankthatskunk

Ghost 125 said:


> 1 Mig 21 , 1 MI 17 Confirm, 1 SU 30 (un confirmed)
> rest is bullshit and fan fiction



add the 2nd Bison, claimed to be crashed on 27th. No coincidences , it was a kill, a confirmed kill by BVR.

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## Ghost 125

crankthatskunk said:


> add the 2nd Bison, claimed to be crashed on 27th. No coincidences , it was a kill, a confirmed kill by BVR.


no one claimed 2nd bison. in the early hours of skirmish media was confused and as usual was reporting unprofessionally. they declared the bison crashed but when abhi was shown in custody they admitted it was shot down.

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## ghazi52

*Pakistan retains right to use anything, everything in its legitimate self-defense: ISPR*


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## tarrar

Two aircraft’s were shot down.


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## alee92nawaz

Yaseen1 said:


> i not agree with indian claim of downing f16 but this video was made by indians so that is why person speaking in video making this claim but if you see video at end it become evident that one jet downed was shot down in close combat and no bvr is used for that as near downing jet other flying jet can be seen turning in a direction


I don't know how to tag but @CriticalThought already discussed this. He said a F-16 is shooting a jet in this video and goes away doing a viper pilot maneuver


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## crankthatskunk

tipu_ssw said:


> JF-17 - The Striker Another victory patch hints about the bombs being used to @@@@@ Indians
> 
> View attachment 550725



Is it RAAD!! or !!


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## Comrade

crankthatskunk said:


> Is it RAAD!! or !!


Its SOW H2 or H4 glide bomb range 50km to 100km respectively.


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## alee92nawaz

ziaulislam said:


>


I was so pumped . As soon as I got out of the class after the exam, my phone was ringing alot. I picked up the call of 1 mate and he said
" Ali news dekh hum onko bumbo thok aye hein. 2 jahaz bhe gira diye hein. Nam ni pta ik koi su su ya koi cu ha "
I was so pumped that i punched the table at canteen and samosas of my friends went up in the air and down on the ground like Abhi-none-done. That day I begged alot of my fellows to lend me hotspot. I think i watched the ISPR presser somewhat. Someone reported that the thunder has knocked out the Sukhoi . Although till date no proof has come out. Also then the F-16:drama and indian bullshit was worth watching. But after watching their tri services presser, I was sure that they didn't shoot down anytime. PAF zindabad......

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## ProudPak

siegecrossbow said:


> If I understand this correctly, since F-16s were only used within Pakistanis Air Space, its use technically didn't constitute as a violation?


Actually f16 can be used defensively to attack india inside india. The limit is that its not used for offensive purpose to attack neighbours. We were attacked so we can hit back thats fine

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112711761562464258


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## 1Paki$tani

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112711761562464258


That is so funny. Its a bitter pill for India to swallow in accepting that JF-17 hammered you guys.
BTW isnt your Mirage 2000 ground strike and not air combat thus JF-17 trying to keep Mirage at bay seems dumb.

Beside there is no evidence that F-16 was shot down. so unless you have evidence other than a diagram drawn by someone, mind you most of us can do a similar diagram, stop posting crap.

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## NA71

The tweets of Sameer Joshi is a pure reflection of Bollywood Syndrome.

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## GriffinsRule

1Paki$tani said:


> That is so funny. Its a bitter pill for India to swallow in accepting that JF-17 hammered you guys.
> BTW isnt your Mirage 2000 ground strike and not air combat thus JF-17 trying to keep Mirage at bay seems dumb.
> 
> Beside there is no evidence that F-16 was shot down. so unless you have evidence other than a diagram drawn by someone, mind you most of us can do a similar diagram, stop posting crap.



Mirages are multirole just like the F-16s


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## Haroon Baloch

I bet the last radio contact between command with Abhinonedone went like this:

*Command: Abhi You're breaking the plane!

Abhi: Shut up. Don't tell me how to Fly.

Command: TRIPPPPLLE CAUTION ABHI!!!!!!!!!!ABHI I BEG you!!!*

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## araz

guys
There has been something bothering me about the location of the IAF jet crashes.
First is Abhinandan's mig which landed in Pak Kashmir.Iam assuming that he came in and must have been shot on the turn to go sideways and land in Pak Territory. So with the other had they already turned when we fired the missiles at them? The reason I ask is because there is something which is different about the two flight trajectories. Did the 2nd pilot hear the Ground controller and returned while Abhi did not??
Opinions/Answers would be appreciated.
A

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## Slides

araz said:


> guys
> There has been something bothering me about the location of the IAF jet crashes.
> First is Abhinandan's mig which landed in Pak Kashmir.Iam assuming that he came in and must have been shot on the turn to go sideways and land in Pak Territory. So with the other had they already turned when we fired the missiles at them? The reason I ask is because there is something which is different about the two flight trajectories. Did the 2nd pilot hear the Ground controller and returned while Abhi did not??
> Opinions/Answers would be appreciated.
> A


Yes


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## Microsoft

randomradio said:


> A denial always follows a claim when it's a sensitive matter.
> 
> We claimed to shoot down an F-16. You are yet to deny it.
> 
> So cheers.



F-16 claim has been denied. Has the SU-30 claim been denied yet?


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## randomradio

Microsoft said:


> F-16 claim has been denied. Has the SU-30 claim been denied yet?



Both are Pakistani claims.


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## Riz

randomradio said:


> Both are Pakistani claims.


So ?? U think IAF will accept our SU-30 is shot down by a JF-17 ?? What was the reason behind randi rona of modi and yiur IAF ... If we had rafale pak will never dare to attack us... This means u totally failed... Totally

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## randomradio

Riz said:


> So ?? U think IAF will accept our SU-30 is shot down by a JF-17 ?? What was the reason behind randi rona of modi and yiur IAF ... If we had rafale pak will never dare to attack us... This means u totally failed... Totally



The Su-30s were more than 40Km away from the LoC. Only 2 MIg-21s were present in the fight.


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

randomradio said:


> The Su-30s were more than 40Km away from the LoC. Only 2 MIg-21s were present in the fight.


40Km is with in PL-12 range.


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## Riz

randomradio said:


> The Su-30s were more than 40Km away from the LoC. Only 2 MIg-21s were present in the fight.


Our AMRAAMs range is plus 100nm...

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## usman012

randomradio said:


> The Su-30s were more than 40Km away from the LoC. Only 2 MIg-21s were present in the fight.


4 Su-30s were in the air to intercept Paf Jets and your Media first accepted that One of Our Su-30 who was chasing F-16 along the Line of Control was shot down.

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## syedmunib

randomradio said:


> Both are Pakistani claims.








We provide proofs of our claims. India said initially all planes accounted for. We showed Abhinandan.

You said Abhinandan shot an F16. See the image of all four Air to Air missiles of Abhi plane. 

As they say in Punjabi

Hund aaaraaam aey ?

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## randomradio

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> 40Km is with in PL-12 range.



Not used against IAF.



Riz said:


> Our AMRAAMs range is plus 100nm...



Multiple AMRAAMs missed the MKIs.



usman012 said:


> 4 Su-30s were in the air to intercept Paf Jets and your Media first accepted that One of Our Su-30 who was chasing F-16 along the Line of Control was shot down.



None of the 4 MKI came to within 40Km of the LoC. Only Mig-21s came close to LoC, and only 1 crossed.



syedmunib said:


> View attachment 550933
> 
> We provide proofs of our claims. India said initially all planes accounted for. We showed Abhinandan.
> 
> You said Abhinandan shot an F16. See the image of all four Air to Air missiles of Abhi plane.
> 
> As they say in Punjabi
> 
> Hund aaaraaam aey ?



The 4th missile, R-73, is missing its warhead. Warheads simply do not go missing.


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## CodeforFood

randomradio said:


> Not used against IAF.
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple AMRAAMs missed the MKIs.
> 
> 
> 
> None of the 4 MKI came to within 40Km of the LoC. Only Mig-21s came close to LoC, and only 1 crossed.
> 
> 
> 
> The 4th missile, R-73, is missing its warhead. Warheads simply do not go missing.


Lets just complete your full (weird) theory that you have cooked so that some knowledgeable member can provide a response to shut you up... oh I forgot... it is not possible to shut you off is it :-\



randomradio said:


> The Su-30s were more than 40Km away from the LoC. Only 2 MIg-21s were present in the fight.


What is the proof for that??

Also pakistani claims atleast 50% proven correct and accepted. There isn't anything provided by the Indian side that is actually concrete proof. Accept it.. you lost this engagement and just move on.

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## syedmunib

> The 4th missile, R-73, is missing its warhead. Warheads simply do not go missing.



Please use your brains to figure out why missiles from one side are more or less intact and the ones from other side are burnt. It's not rocket science.


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## ziaulislam

randomradio said:


> Not used against IAF.
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple AMRAAMs missed the MKIs.
> 
> 
> 
> None of the 4 MKI came to within 40Km of the LoC. Only Mig-21s came close to LoC, and only 1 crossed.
> 
> 
> 
> The 4th missile, R-73, is missing its warhead. Warheads simply do not go missing.


Belongs to burnt wing..discussed to death how denotation works in r 73 thus burned warhead didnt detonated..also images of crash site of mig22 shows the r73 present immediately when pictures were aired ..

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## randomradio

ziaulislam said:


> Belongs to burnt wing..discussed to death how denotation works in r 73 thus burned warhead didnt detonated..also images of crash site of mig22 shows the r73 present immediately when pictures were aired ..



One would like to see the other burnt up parts as well. But, by quirk of circumstances, parts of missiles that are actually found after they are expended have been displayed, while the parts that make the kill are not. Weird, don't you think?


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## ziaulislam

randomradio said:


> One would like to see the other burnt up parts as well. But, by quirk of circumstances, parts of missiles that are actually found after they are expended have been displayed, while the parts that make the kill are not. Weird, don't you think?


Please read my post again...we cant answer to every indians...Oscar discussed this before


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## CodeforFood

randomradio said:


> One would like to see the other burnt up parts as well. But, by quirk of circumstances, parts of missiles that are actually found after they are expended have been displayed, while the parts that make the kill are not. Weird, don't you think?


First show the proof so the basis can be established. Don't build castles in the air.


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## ziaulislam

Everyone knows that balakot missed their spot .(undeniable satellite images)
Everyone knows mig21 went down
And everyone knows that all its weapons are accounted for ...unfortunately he had no time to even fire

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## CodeforFood

ziaulislam said:


> Everyone knows that balakot missed their spot .(undeniable satellite images)
> Everyone knows mig21 went down
> And everyone knows that all its weapons are accounted for ...unfortunately he had no time to even fire


but he would still not shut-up...shameless really.


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## Xeric

syedmunib said:


> Please use your brains to figure out why missiles from one side are more or less intact and the ones from other side are burnt. It's not rocket science.


The 4th missile (right most in your pic - Archer) was almost completely burnt as it was attached to the port side wing which buckled over the fuselage and was destroyed by flames. The same can be seen in the pics of fuselage. These thickheads wont understand that a fired missile can never be recovered in the shape as shown in the pic you have uploaded. The seeker (front part of the missile) is the first thing that gets completely destroyed on a fired missile. The rear (burnt) part is the rocket booster.

Quoting Mr Rando that _warheads simply do not go missing_, how does he think the warhead (located almost in the middle) went missing while the rocket (tail end) and seeker (front) are intact? i wish i could share a clearer pic of all four missile, but even that would not help in pushing any sense in their skulls, so i wont.

Here, the 4th missile's rocket can be seen


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102943251315732481

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## Slides

It's impossible to get through to Indians. They have been fed so many lies of their own superiority and that their own government and military doesn't lie, that they will take that belief to the grave no matter what the evidence shows.


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## Xeric

Xeric said:


> The 4th missile (right most in your pic - Archer) was almost *completely burnt as it was attached to the port side wing which buckled over the fuselage and was destroyed by flames*. The same can be seen in the pics of fuselage. These thickheads wont understand that a fired missile can never be recovered in the shape as shown in the pic you have uploaded. The seeker (front part of the missile) is the first thing that gets completely destroyed on a fired missile. *The rear (burnt) part is the rocket booster*



May be this comparison can push some sense into them:

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## Microsoft

randomradio said:


> Both are Pakistani claims.



What? F-16 being shot down is Pakistani claim? This is news to me.

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## randomradio

Xeric said:


> May be this comparison can push some sense into them:



You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.

That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.

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## CodeforFood

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.


Now he is pivoting to something else smh.

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## Microsoft

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.



Believe it or not you are the second most delusional Indian in this thread.

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## untitled

randomradio said:


> With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16

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## 1Paki$tani

GriffinsRule said:


> A cynic
> 
> 
> Mirages are multirole just like the F-16s



Yes but Indian uses Mig-21 for intercepts and SU-30


Xeric said:


> May be this comparison can push some sense into them:



Not only that but when the plane was shot down the missile could have hit the side where MIG-21 Missiles are damaged. The explosion from AAM and than crash and fire would have somewhat destroyed the missiles.


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## ziaulislam

Slides said:


> It's impossible to get through to Indians. They have been fed so many lies of their own superiority and that their own government and military doesn't lie, that they will take that belief to the grave no matter what the evidence shows.


Mr Gupta of the print was saying that Pakistani rebuild the building overnight within first week and used ed holographics to fake satlite images ..i mean there has to be limit of idiocy ...i never thought one can fall to such a level but this has changed my opinion ..now Pakistani rumours are making more sense as i realize anything from india side is stupid



randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.


Atlessr make up your mind..
There is no clarity of what happened from indian side even after 40 days
You guys hit balakot? Yes or no? Causalities yes no??
You guys shot your own mi17? Yes? No??

You guys shot f16? Yes no? Who?..like God!

You cant make up your mind after 40 days and complain about ISPR retraction of two pilots to one within time frame of 2 hours

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## SQ8

Xeric said:


> May be this comparison can push some sense into them:


Mehwish Hayat has greater chances of giving away her award to Meera.

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## TsAr

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.


So now you are not certain that who shot the F-16 even though your gift says it was abhinandan. Kindly clear your head first, make up your mind and then post.

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## GumNaam

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.


it was the secret tie fighter piloted by none other than modi himself that he borrowed from darth vader that shot the F16 down, that's why there is no debri, no wreckage, no aam or sam missile parts, nothing, it was simply..."vaporized vedic style" and took sha shaza zasha zuddin khanna, khan with it...happy?! chal ja bhag ja shabbash!


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## Riz

randomradio said:


> Multiple AMRAAMs missed the MKIs.


Listen u dumbu.. If this story is true your one mig 21 can kill a F-16 and your mki can dodged a half dozen AMRAAMs with the speed of Mach 6, then why modi need to say that if we had Rafale's situation will be in favor of india... And there was no reason for u to cry in front of USA about Amraams & the use of F-16...  dimag sa socho

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## GumNaam

Riz said:


> Listen u dumbu.. If this story is true your one mig 21 can kill a F-16 and your mki can dodged a half dozen AMRAAMs with the speed of Mach 6, they why modi need to say this if we had Rafale's situation will be in favor of india... And there was no reason for u to cry in front of USA about Amraams & the use of F-16...  dimag sa socho


 dimag sa socho, gobar sa na socho

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## NA71

Shooting down F16 story was just an immediate cover for their losses on 27th Feb. More than a dozen TV programs, 100s of articles have been presented with an imaginary claim of F16 Kill without giving a piece of single evidence. On the other side, we do have authentic proof of SU30 claim, video recording of the ground attack, Photos of injured (later died) pilot but God knows for what reason we are keeping it till date. Those who think keeping it undisclosed will serve better is debatable, Russians will not give us anything worth significant to our capability enhancement...they know our pockets are empty.

Coming up with full PAF briefing with visuals in early March could have a lasting psychological impact on IAF/Indians. Anyways, Its History now as ISPR statement says.

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## mshan44

ISPR asks india to choose a jet of your choice

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## wasileo80

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.


OH Stop this non sense and dont spread this bull shit go and present these theories to your stupid anchor persons.. i am sure the 98% indians dont have brain and they continuously bashing... you people dont even worthy of any sensible discussion... I request to all members dont engage with indians, they will not accept the reality even though you take them to an inventory check of PAF..... they are brainless people...
See since 27 Feb they were claiming ABHI shot down F-16s when all proofs went against their statement even all four missiles on Mig-21 showed still attached to Mig-21 wreckage then now these MARS expert came with new theory that his wing man fired the R-73 and interesting that wing man is missing since then 
Also he is saying may be our own goal... hahahhahaha and another one is may be MKI had a kill shot... where as their own resources mentioned weeks ago that MKI dont even fired his missiles and PAF missiles out ranged the MKI missiles and they MKI were running to avoid those missiles....
OH Indian please dont behave like a stupid and dont put non sense again and again..... you have troll enough now dont come with another created theory by your own...


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## NA71

wasileo80 said:


> OH Stop this non sense and dont spread this bull shit go and present these theories to your stupid anchor persons.. i am sure the 98% indians dont have brain and they continuously bashing... you people dont even worthy of any sensible discussion... I request to all members dont engage with indians, they will not accept the reality even though you take them to an inventory check of PAF..... they are brainless people...
> See since 27 Feb they were claiming ABHI shot down F-16s when all proofs went against their statement even all four missiles on Mig-21 showed still attached to Mig-21 wreckage then now these MARS expert came with new theory that his wing man fired the R-73 and interesting that wing man is missing since then
> Also he is saying may be our own goal... hahahhahaha and another one is may be MKI had a kill shot... where as their own resources mentioned weeks ago that MKI dont even fired his missiles and PAF missiles out ranged the MKI missiles and they MKI were running to avoid those missiles....
> OH Indian please dont behave like a stupid and dont put non sense again and again..... you have troll enough now dont come with another created theory by your own...



Exactly. 

I remember, their first official reaction after Air battle was" All our fighter jets returned to their bases safely" and after 3hours " One MiG21 downed due to a technical fault, pilot missing" while Pakistani media was saying pilots are in our custody.

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## usman012

randomradio said:


> Not used against IAF.
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple AMRAAMs missed the MKIs.
> 
> 
> 
> None of the 4 MKI came to within 40Km of the LoC. Only Mig-21s came close to LoC, and only 1 crossed.
> 
> 
> 
> The 4th missile, R-73, is missing its warhead. Warheads simply do not go missing.



Lol! Your Own media acknowledge that Su-30 chasing F-16 across the line of Control but ended up target by F-16 from Bvr Range and it fell in Indian occupied Kashmir.


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## kursed

I wish Indians would have told the Americans to use these 'fragmentation' bombs, that don't touch the buildings. Poor things have been demolishing entire buildings in AF for 17 years now. And eventually had to develop an entire new category of smart bombs (SDBs) small enough to cause less damage to structures hence preventing collateral damage.

They should call up Indians and get info on this new class of weapons.


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## graphican

ISLAMABAD - The military on Monday said that it was meaningless to question whether Pakistan used JF-17 Thunder jets or US-built F-16s to shoot down two Indian warplanes during an air battle that took place on February 27.


READ MORE: Media should project positive image of Pakistan to boost tourism sector, says Fawad
The Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR), the military’s media wing, said this in a statement while responding to repeated claims of Indian government and its media about shooting down Pakistani F-16 fighter jet during the dogfight and that Pakistan used F-16 jets in the fight.

On February 27, Pakistan Air Force had shot down two Indian warplanes which had entered into its airspace and had also taken into its custody a pilot of Indian Air Force.

“Pakistan reserves the right to use any of its ability according to its choice for its self-defence,” the statement said adding the incident of February 27 was now part of the history.It added that first PAF’s JF-17s had made strikes across Line of Control (LoC) from within Pakistan airspace. And later on, when Indian air jets violated Pakistan’s space, PAF targeted these jets in self-defence. "Whether these two Indian jets were targeted by F-16 or JF-17, this question is meaningless," the ISPR said. ISPR further said that all of PAF's airplanes including F-16s were airborne when the Indian planes crossed the LOC.

The statement underscored that India could "pick any jet of its choice, even F-16" but that would not change the end result of the air battle. "If Pakistan used F-16 jets, even then, two Indian jets were targeted,” the statement concluded.

Reference: https://nation.com.pk/02-Apr-2019/ispr-asks-india-to-pick-any-jet-of-your-choice

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

randomradio said:


> The bombs used were of the fragmentation kind. So they do not destroy the building. The only visible damage would be small holes in the roofs of the targets. Those roofs are of the kind that can easily be replaced in a few hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Officially, all we have on the F-16 is it was shot down. This story of R-73, AMRAAM, SAM etc is media creation. We don't know how or what shot it down. There are also rumours that the F-16 was hit by an Indian missile followed by a Pakistani missile. Only the IAF and PAF know the true story.
> 
> And we have official confirmation that we shot down our Mi-17. Rumours say the SPYDER was involved. Another set says MRSAM. So even in this case, we do not know what happened.
> 
> It has nothing to do about making up minds, open source does not have the information.
> 
> The only thing confirmed, by ISRP themselves, is that 3 men were brought down and one was Abhinandan.
> 
> 
> 
> A narrative is being created for the induction of more Rafales. A second tranche of 36 is being planned, which will be executed once Modi is reelected.
> 
> 
> 
> It was your own ISPR who revealed 3 pilots were on parachutes. Where are the other two?


one thousand kg bombs will only create small holes in the roof?

secondly indian media said spyder.


----------



## graphican

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.



You want to say as India created drama of Mig-27 crash - Pakistan would do the same for F-16s?


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## randomradio

Fun times.



Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> one thousand kg bombs will only create small holes in the roof?



Yes. It's a penetration bomb.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104088066312925184


> secondly indian media said spyder.



That is the problem. The media doesn't know anything properly. They are more interested in breaking the news first and verifying later. Maybe it's true that it was the SPYDER. But we do not have official confirmation. And I doubt we will get specifics anytime soon.


----------



## Shabi1

randomradio said:


> Fun times.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. It's a penetration bomb.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104088066312925184
> 
> 
> That is the problem. The media doesn't know anything properly. They are more interested in breaking the news first and verifying later. Maybe it's true that it was the SPYDER. But we do not have official confirmation. And I doubt we will get specifics anytime soon.

















https://www.voltairenet.org/article204302.html


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

randomradio said:


> Fun times.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. It's a penetration bomb.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104088066312925184
> 
> 
> That is the problem. The media doesn't know anything properly. They are more interested in breaking the news first and verifying later. Maybe it's true that it was the SPYDER. But we do not have official confirmation. And I doubt we will get specifics anytime soon.


common sense use karo. Concrete or tin roof me farq hota ha.

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## Trailer23

A big thank you to @mshan44 who posted a printed version of this earlier.

This is the '*Right Click* ---> *Save As...*' version.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

randomradio said:


> Fun times.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. It's a penetration bomb.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1104088066312925184
> 
> 
> That is the problem. The media doesn't know anything properly. They are more interested in breaking the news first and verifying later. Maybe it's true that it was the SPYDER. But we do not have official confirmation. And I doubt we will get specifics anytime soon.


As has been pointed out to you multiple times, multiple independent satellite image analyses have debunked Indian claims of hitting any of the structures at the Balakot compound.

Stop posting Indian propaganda when the rest of the world clearly doesn’t buy your BS.

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## HawkEye27

Its been more than month. Why no one bothered about Satelitte images of PAF strikes something is fishy. Who knows PAF made direct hits and Indian dont wana show it and nor does the Pak Military as it goes against their narrative

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## Windjammer

randomradio said:


> .


Let me once again burst you bubble, your air force is staying well clear from the LOC.
And this is no MiG-21 making any Trishul.  





http://www.jammulinksnews.com/newsd...ndhar__Rajouri_as_forces_remain_on_high_alert

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## LimaCharlie

hey everyone i'm new here on pdf! i'm sure you all saw the vid of the jf17 thunder chasing the su 30
well the video is unclear, but from what I can see the jet being pursued is a twin engined aircraft and had a very similar shape compared to the su 30mki. From what I could also see, was that the su 30mki seemed to have rolled a bit to the right, as If you look closely, you will see that the first aircrafts left wing had disappeared a bit. (look at it from our perspective, for the left and right stuff). From that roll, we wont be able to see the canards fully, especially with the not so clear video. Granted this video is unclear, but what I said actually makes sense. The wings or canards of any aircraft will be as easy to see when the aircraft has either rolled a bit to the left or right, and looking at the video it does seem like it had rolled a bit considering how the left wing is disappearing a bit. Also the jet behind is clearly a Jf 17 and the iaf chief said the only aircrafts there was the mig 21, su 30 and the mirage 2000. Considering how there is a Jf 17 and the other one is a twin engined fighter... You do the maths for indians Your argument, although plausible, is incorrect. There is too much evidence against for your argument for it to considered feasible. Remember 3 chutes were spotted, f16 and Jf 17 are single seater aircrafts. Mig 21 confirmed shot down but that's a single seater too. This vid shows su 30 being pursued, and that is 2 seater. 1+2=3. moreover the paf and turkish pilots are wearing badges showing big crosses on the two aircrafts mig and su 30 with the line illegal vehicle now under permanent impound i have a pretty good argument about the wreckage both sides agree that two jets were shot down the pakistanis claim it to be a su 30 while the indians claim it to be an f16 you claimed one of the SHOWN wreckages to be that of an f16 later proven to be wrong https://bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/03/02/falcon-vs-bison-verifying-a-mig-21-wreck/  let us say that the other wreckage NOT SHOWN in IOK according to eye witnesses is that of an f16 why would you not show it proudly, coz that is the wreckage of a su 30 quite evident because the video proof backs this claim 4 unfired missiles were recovered from the mig that means it did not down an aircraft if you connect the dots the indian media said this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2NKrHDCZWQ  if we accept that was a mistake and the su 30 indeed shot down an f16 then it was abhinandan? as claimed by all of India thus a su 30 was also shot down but he spat out the truth at the start. the mig did not have a chance to fire and the su 30 was downed with credible evidence to back the claim and no such evidence of there being an f16 even present in the dogfight all signs point to a mig and a su 30 downing coz both sides agree 2 jets were shot down as a whole.arguments?


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## NA71

randomradio said:


> Fun times.



Please stop ...you are making too much fun. I do not forget the Trishul, IAF made on 27-02.... .a fleeing AC always makes the shape just like TRISHUL .


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## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> Let me once again burst you bubble, your air force is staying well clear from the LOC.
> And this is no MiG-21 making any Trishul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.jammulinksnews.com/newsd...ndhar__Rajouri_as_forces_remain_on_high_alert


Low IQ religious fanatics will see a aircraft bugging out and see a Trishul.

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## YeBeWarned

some Indian Posters are just embarrassing themselves .


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## Windjammer

Oscar said:


> Low IQ religious fanatics will see a aircraft bugging out and see a Trishul.


Forget MiG-21 , even the once so called invincible SU-30 is staying well clear of the LOC.


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## Xeric

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.


More gibberish,nothing else.
All i know is that i and my colleagues are quite sure that Abhinandan apart from getting flak for losing an aircraft is currently being thrashed for carrying 2 x BVRs (forget the heat-seekers) and still not engaging the escaping Pakistani jets that had just bombed the @$#% out of you from a standoff distance/while staying inide Indian territory. _Pichay aamb lain aya see??_

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## alphibeti

randomradio said:


> You will find another interesting sequence of events going around.
> 
> That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. With the lack of official news from the IAF, in open source we have no idea what actually killed the F-16. All they have said is an F-16 was shot down. We also do not know whose R-73 was involved, Abhinandan's or his wingman's. Maybe even that phantom MKI.


"That of an F-16 killed by own goal, either with a Pak AAM or SAM. ..." How many versions of the story you indians have. First you guys claimed (on 27/2) that F-16 was destroyed in friendly fire. Then you liars started claiming it was shot by Abhinandan's Mig-21 just before being shot down by PAF. Why not, Indian media is the most dirty media full of lies world over. Every slummy becomes an expert and starts a new story/lie about the humiliation of 27/2 at the hands of PAF.

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## M.AsfandYar

Xeric said:


> More gibberish,nothing else.
> All i know is that i and my colleagues are quite sure that Abhinandan apart from getting flak for losing an aircraft is currently being thrashed for carrying 2 x BVRs (forget the heat-seekers) and still not engaging the escaping Pakistani jets that had just bombed the @$#% out of you from a standoff distance/while staying inide Indian territory. _Pichay aamb lain aya see??_


Aho tai
Sadai aamb barai sawadi hondai nai

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## Microsoft

kursed said:


> I wish Indians would have told the Americans to use these 'fragmentation' bombs, that don't touch the buildings. Poor things have been demolishing entire buildings in AF for 17 years now. And eventually had to develop an entire new category of smart bombs (SDBs) small enough to cause less damage to structures hence preventing collateral damage.
> 
> They should call up Indians and get info on this new class of weapons.



That's classified vedic technology the turtle that carries the earth gave them 474 million years ago when they became the first life form in the universe. I don't think even Americans are capable of using such technology.


----------



## Xeric

1Paki$tani said:


> Yes but Indian uses Mig-21 for intercepts and SU-30
> 
> 
> *Not only that but when the plane was shot down the missile could have hit the side where MIG-21 Missiles are damaged. The explosion from AAM and than crash and fire would have somewhat destroyed the missiles*.


There is no need to assume anything now. I had already stated how and what had happened (i was there when the Pilot was apprehended and i visited all the crash sites too - just happened to be in the area when the incident took place). i challenge the Indians to refute it.

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## randomradio

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> As has been pointed out to you multiple times, multiple independent satellite image analyses have debunked Indian claims of hitting any of the structures at the Balakot compound.
> 
> Stop posting Indian propaganda when the rest of the world clearly doesn’t buy your BS.



It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.

If our attack had failed, we would have confirmed its failure, and also Pakistan wouldn't have responded the way they did.



Windjammer said:


> Forget MiG-21 , even the once so called invincible SU-30 is staying well clear of the LOC.



The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.



Xeric said:


> More gibberish,nothing else.
> All i know is that i and my colleagues are quite sure that Abhinandan apart from getting flak for losing an aircraft is currently being thrashed for carrying 2 x BVRs (forget the heat-seekers) and still not engaging the escaping Pakistani jets that had just bombed the @$#% out of you from a standoff distance/while staying inide Indian territory. _Pichay aamb lain aya see??_



I hope your professionals on the forum and the ground are showing the same jazbaa against our troops on the ground. It's going to be boring if you don't.

We reveal our casualties, you don't. 'Nuf said.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

randomradio said:


> It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> If our attack had failed, we would have confirmed its failure, and also Pakistan wouldn't have responded the way they did.


The rest of the world has confirmed your Balakot strike failure - can't expect Modi to admit that his main action prior to the elections was a failure.

And Pakistan had to respond to send a message to India and the rest of the world that Indian escalation (regardless of the damage inflicted) would be met in kind.

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## Microsoft

randomradio said:


> *1) *It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> If our attack had failed, we would have confirmed its failure, and also Pakistan wouldn't have responded the way they did.
> 
> 
> 
> *2)*The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.
> 
> 
> 
> *3)*I hope your professionals on the forum and the ground are showing the same jazbaa against our troops on the ground. It's going to be boring if you don't.
> 
> We reveal our casualties, you don't. 'Nuf said.



1) Argument from ignorance. How surprising coming from an Indian.
2) So you confirm IAF is nothing more than a collection of airshow pilots. Now if PAF draws a crescent moon will you b!tch about that too?
3) What is the name of the dead SU-30 pilot?


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## Vortex

randomradio said:


> It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> If our attack had failed, we would have confirmed its failure, and also Pakistan wouldn't have responded the way they did.




You what ? You would have confirmed the failure?

I’m not expert in politics but I found this statement very strange.

And yes Pakistan would have told you to keep trying, we would reply you only if you succeed in your mission.

I’m not expert in military but I found this statement also stupid.

Bollywood strong side effect.

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## TsAr

randomradio said:


> It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> If our attack had failed, we would have confirmed its failure, and also Pakistan wouldn't have responded the way they did.
> 
> 
> 
> The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope your professionals on the forum and the ground are showing the same jazbaa against our troops on the ground. It's going to be boring if you don't.
> 
> We reveal our casualties, you don't. 'Nuf said.


I will advise you to take a few days off, go to some hill station and stay away from your news channels and also PDF.

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## IceCold

randomradio said:


> It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> If our attack had failed, we would have confirmed its failure, and also Pakistan wouldn't have responded the way they did.



The whole world called Indian attack a farce. Even Indians have. Your bravado is misplaced. As for reacting the IAF violated our airspace and dropped ordinance, that was an act of aggression and we responded exactly the way we said we would. 





> The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.



PAF is more than capable and willing to meet the challenge......is IAF?





> I hope your professionals on the forum and the ground are showing the same jazbaa against our troops on the ground. It's going to be boring if you don't.



Ask this from your troops who are be taken out by our troops on the ground.



> We reveal our casualties, you don't. 'Nuf said.



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/breaking-news-3-pakistani-jawans-embrace-shahadaat-at-loc.611460/

Now stop posting BS.

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## Windjammer

randomradio said:


> they did.
> 
> The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.


Lol, since when does an aircraft making a hasty exit represents a trishul, the only time IAF accepts a challenge is when they spot a UAV.

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## ziaulislam

Riz said:


> Listen u dumbu.. If this story is true your one mig 21 can kill a F-16 and your mki can dodged a half dozen AMRAAMs with the speed of Mach 6, then why modi need to say that if we had Rafale's situation will be in favor of india... And there was no reason for u to cry in front of USA about Amraams & the use of F-16...  dimag sa socho


Remember indis has 120bison ..so 120 bisons are per india better than all combined airforce

Forget about MKI MIG29 MIRAGES JAUGUARS

so why did india chickened out


----------



## waz

randomradio said:


> The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.
> 
> We reveal our casualties, you don't. 'Nuf said.



You already lost a Mig and helicopter, you can lay as many challenges down as you like, you failed miserably in a clear conventional fight.

What’s more hilarious is you were the same poster who claimed India would have air superiority in 48 hours over Pakistan....

As for casualties see yesterday’s thread regarding the three shaheed soldiers.

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## VCheng

waz said:


> You already lost a Mig and helicopter, you can lay as many challenges down as you like, you failed miserably in a clear conventional fight.
> 
> What’s more hilarious is you were the same poster who claimed India would have air superiority in 48 hours over Pakistan....
> 
> As for casualties see yesterday’s thread regarding the three shaheed soldiers.



If that Trishul is a challenge to PAF, I am sorely tempted to post up photo of a giant pe nis drawn in the sky by similar means as the PAF response, but I do not want to be banned.

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## Xeric

randomradio said:


> It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> *I hope your professionals on the forum and the ground are showing the same jazbaa against our troops on the ground*.


Oh believe me my dear they are. Our arms are so deep inside your a$$ that we can actually irritate your oesophagus!

I am currently listening to the intercepts of your Ghattak teams where your men were actually weeping over the net when they were given a concentrated dose of TNT just a few weeks back. i am ready to risk a court-martial and share the voice segment but then i know even that wont penetrate your thick skulls!

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## randomradio

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> The rest of the world has confirmed your Balakot strike failure - can't expect Modi to admit that his main action prior to the elections was a failure.



The IAF would have revealed it as a failure. But they insisted it succeeded. Twice.



> And Pakistan had to respond to send a message to India and the rest of the world that Indian escalation (regardless of the damage inflicted) would be met in kind.



It's the opposite. Pakistan is asking for deescalation.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1464599

https://www.livemint.com/news/india...o-ease-conflict-with-india-1551636778808.html



Microsoft said:


> 3) What is the name of the dead SU-30 pilot?



We don't know, or we would have revealed. You guys have the 3 downed pilots. Only 1 was returned.



Windjammer said:


> Lol, since when does an aircraft making a hasty exit represents a trishul, the only time IAF accepts a challenge is when they spot a UAV.



Simple, it was well inside the 10Km deconfliction zone.


----------



## NA71

Xeric said:


> Oh believe me my dear they are. Our arms are so deep inside your a$$ that we can actually irritate your oesophagus!
> 
> I am currently listening to the intercepts of your Ghattak teams where your men were actually weeping over the net when they were given a concentrated dose of TNT just a few weeks back. i am ready to risk a court-martial and share the voice segment but then i know even that wont penetrate your thick skulls!


 
No bro do not get emotional ... be patient ...We know ....from centuries .... how to deal with the filth. have faith ...

every fleeing AC makes steep turns...it looks like curved path which thiis kid is refering as TRISHUL ....SU30 before going down ...made this TRISHUL on Feb 27.


----------



## randomradio

waz said:


> You already lost a Mig and helicopter, you can lay as many challenges down as you like, you failed miserably in a clear conventional fight.
> 
> What’s more hilarious is you were the same poster who claimed India would have air superiority in 48 hours over Pakistan....



Most professionals wouldn't say we lost. Let's recap, shall we?

We attacked Pakistan's sovereign territory without being challenged.

You attacked 'disputed territory' and were challenged. Awantipore was a complete miss. Along with all the other targets.



> As for casualties see yesterday’s thread regarding the three shaheed soldiers.



Ask your professionals what the 'actual' casualties are. Ask about Makwal.



Xeric said:


> Oh believe me my dear they are. Our arms are so deep inside your a$$ that we can actually irritate your oesophagus!
> 
> I am currently listening to the intercepts of your Ghattak teams where your men were actually weeping over the net when they were given a concentrated dose of TNT just a few weeks back. i am ready to risk a court-martial and share the voice segment but then i know even that wont penetrate your thick skulls!



How was Makwal?


----------



## Ahassan

We don't know, or we would have revealed. You guys have the 3 downed pilots. Only 1 was returned.






it was Su-30 ... 





 mig21 crash 

and then mi17 (first report suggested 6crew and the 7crew !

try to ask your own government and clarify .... the names ...


----------



## Slides

randomradio said:


> The IAF would have revealed it as a failure. But they insisted it succeeded. Twice.



The IAF has been caught lying multiple times since 1947 and again in 2019. It's nothing new for them.

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## Windjammer

randomradio said:


> Simple, it was well inside the 10Km deconfliction zone.



Give it a rest, the contrails are not even over Nowshera as your big fonts claim.


----------



## saiyan0321

waz said:


> You already lost a Mig and helicopter, you can lay as many challenges down as you like, you failed miserably in a clear conventional fight.
> 
> What’s more hilarious is you were the same poster who claimed India would have air superiority in 48 hours over Pakistan....
> 
> As for casualties see yesterday’s thread regarding the three shaheed soldiers.



Post 2013 indian media is a great case study for how effective controlled and politicized media can be in changing and advancing a national narrative. After the events of 27 Feb the Indian media has went into over drive upon two major factors. 


That the armed forces suffered no defeat and the difference is still as much as the difference between Gaza and Israel. 
That Pakistan is upon the brink f destruction and would most likely splinter in a couple of years. 
Now for the first Indian media along with the politicians and military brass have focused on a three prong assault for thus narrative. One that the balakot strike was a huge success. For this an active campaign was launched to discredit any piece of evidence that spoke on the contrary. This was utilized with secret images, secret audio and analysts repeatedly telling the same thing over and over again. In the end the very physics of the site was changed yo accommodate the viewpoint and a person being bombarded through media and watsapp messages and already struggling with the info will readily believe it. Second narrative was based upon the 27 feb incident that Pakistan lost the battle of the air as we lost a broken down old plane and Pakistan the greatest technological marvel known to man and this saw many versions some outlandish that it was laughable others just pathetic. Even the release of abhinandan is being twisted as a marvel of modi rather than a peaceful gesture of Pakistan which was focused on an image making front of a peaceful nation that will never answer aggression but never escalate. Third is being placed by highlighting how the indian armed forces are winning the post wars. We saw the submarine report. We see the trishul reports and the operations that have cost Pakistan 200 soldiers and a brigadier. These are concentrated campaigns effectively targeting the populace to preserve the image of invincibility by the government and the army. With this the first narrative is cemented. 

Second we see the splintering of Pakistan. Indian media has always given space to terror attacks in Pakistan as well as twisting of facts to suit narratives as we have seen of loadshedding protests being claimed as independence protests. However recently I have seen the ante go way up post the clashes. Indian media is now openly supporting terrorist narratives without checking for credibility. Do you know that in the past month over 5 convoys of Chinese have been destroyed resulting in massive Chinese casualties according to indian media one of them in Karachi right next to a university? Also that the baloch terrorists have now created sniper squads which have targeted and inflicted huge casualties upon the Pakistan army the past month. Also That pakistan has lost a number of check posts and complete control of every outskirt area in the past month and this is just balochistan. Kpk, sindh and GB have their own documented and extremely successful attacks. All these past month. Why? Bcz the narrative needs to spread that Pakistan is that hell hole splintering failed state which is losing on every front and before election date would be completely broken down.... 

By utilizing these two major topics the indian media is painting modis failures as huge success and the shortcomings of the Indian armed forces are being brushed under the carpet and the shroud of invincibility is being once more placed. 

It is extremely fascinating how such concentrated campaign can mould the minds of a billion people with a simple that all those that question are traitors..

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## Xeric

randomradio said:


>


Call me a dirty mind (comes with being in the military), but i see a classical illustration of the word _butthurt _in the pic instead of a Trishul.

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## alphibeti

randomradio said:


> It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> If our attack had failed, we would have confirmed its failure, and also Pakistan wouldn't have responded the way they did.
> 
> We reveal our casualties, you don't. 'Nuf said.


Who the heck told you Pakistan wouldn't have responded to a grave violation of its sovereignty? I have seen that BS in several Indian videos. Once Indian planes entered our air space and dropped three or four bombs on trees, we were duty bound to give a jaw-breaking response regardless even if Indians didn't have dropped a single bomb. Punishing Modi was required and we did that when we kicked Indian azz the very next day morning in broadday light and after making announcement. Like many Indians, dude you are also a bhonka. So keep doing that. But the fact is Modi couldn't muster some courage to resort to aggression once agains against Pakistan after 27/2. You can keep barking but Modi will sure not forget the lesson taught to him on 27/2.

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## NA71

Xeric said:


> Call me a dirty mind (comes with being in the military), but i see a classical illustration of the word _butthurt _in the pic instead of a Trishul.



ji ji...exactly...this randomradio is comedian i guess spreading laughter in PDF


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## alphibeti

randomradio said:


> It's neither propaganda nor is it BS.
> 
> The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.
> .


The real challenge for the PAF right now is IAF staying 100KM away from the LoC. We are trying to lure them closer to the LoC but they are jumping here and there with smoke tails from their rear and making tall claims on the TV screens. But IAF says look at our Anian aor Jania. You fools believe in that blindly. Good for you.

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## Comfortably Numb

randomradio said:


> Most professionals wouldn't say we lost. Let's recap, shall we?



Dekho bhai Sushmit. 
you say you won.
ok you won
why so frustrated then?
jeet gae sakoon karo. itni effort kyun laga rahe? soja mera bhai


----------



## NA71

current situation

shahid Raza keeping an eye on events through SMedia....sources again suggesting they are up to something again...what do you say ...members?

where are the results of Pak de-escalation efforts?


----------



## Microsoft

randomradio said:


> We don't know, or we would have revealed. You guys have the 3 downed pilots. Only 1 was returned.



India does not know which pilots didn't come back on Feb27? The claim was 2 pilots where one died, you Indians seem to remember events from 50 years ago so well but not so well from 1 month?


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

NA71 said:


> View attachment 551111
> 
> 
> current situation
> 
> shahid Raza keeping an eye on events through SMedia....sources again suggesting they are up to something again...what do you say ...members?
> 
> where are the results of Pak de-escalation efforts?



They are trying to troll us....I don't think any blunder coming from India that soon


----------



## randomradio

alphibeti said:


> Who the heck told you Pakistan wouldn't have responded to a grave violation of its sovereignty? I have seen that BS in several Indian videos. Once Indian planes entered our air space and dropped three or four bombs on trees, we were duty bound to give a jaw-breaking response regardless even if Indians didn't have dropped a single bomb. Punishing Modi was required and we did that when we kicked Indian azz the very next day morning in broadday light and after making announcement. Like many Indians, dude you are also a bhonka. So keep doing that. But the fact is Modi couldn't muster some courage to resort to aggression once agains against Pakistan after 27/2. You can keep barking but Modi will sure not forget the lesson taught to him on 27/2.



What happened next day on the 27th was a complete overreaction to just four bombs that apparently "missed".

Had we not taken countermeasures we would have lost a lot of mid and high ranking soldiers at multiple targets and our two countries would have been at war now.

And our countermeasures worked because we have far more advanced technologies in place than you do. That's the reason why all the bombs fired from PAF aircraft missed. The same reason why none of the AMRAAMs managed to hit the MKIs.



Xeric said:


> Call me a dirty mind (comes with being in the military), but i see a classical illustration of the word _butthurt _in the pic instead of a Trishul.



How's Makwal?

What's happening at Akhnoor Dagger?

Being in the military, you should have some idea of exactly what's happening.


----------



## Dil Pakistan




----------



## Microsoft

NA71 said:


> View attachment 551111
> 
> 
> current situation
> 
> shahid Raza keeping an eye on events through SMedia....sources again suggesting they are up to something again...what do you say ...members?
> 
> where are the results of Pak de-escalation efforts?



India is behaving like a chihuahua, barking and barking with no bite. They tried to bite but it turns out they didn't have teeth. This is more talk close to the election, Pakistani forces are vigilant and there are no mixed words from Pakistani side unlike Indians. Modi said few days ago he wants peace in region now this nonsense from whoever, it's irrelevant barking from the chihuahua.


----------



## Xeric

randomradio said:


> How's Makwal?
> 
> What's happening at Akhnoor Dagger?
> 
> Being in the military, you should have some idea of exactly what's happening.


Mai roti ko chochi nahi bolta.

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## randomradio

Xeric said:


> Mai roti ko chochi nahi bolta.



Okay, sir, since you do not have any interest in continuing, let's end it here.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

randomradio said:


> What happened next day on the 27th was a complete overreaction to just four bombs that apparently "missed".


An 'overreaction' would have been to actually bomb the different Indian military positions, instead of directing the bombs nearby as a warning.

An 'overreaction' would have been the flattening of the Indian Army's brigade HQ, with the resultant casualties.

What Pakistan did was respond back in kind to emphasize, to both India and the global community (read US specifically) that was smugly cheering the Indian strikes, that Pakistan would respond to any Indian escalation, and therefore wipe the smug grins off the face of the US.

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## Imran Khan



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## alphibeti

NA71 said:


> View attachment 551111
> 
> 
> current situation
> 
> shahid Raza keeping an eye on events through SMedia....sources again suggesting they are up to something again...what do you say ...members?
> 
> where are the results of Pak de-escalation efforts?


"... Pak de-escalation efforts?" Of course, in vain. We are saying that since day one that Modi is an utterly stupid and sick-minded criminal and peace gestures don't go well with this kind of filthy creature. Had we shot down quite a few more of IAF planes and the two IN subs that were venturing very close to our waters, he would have known his worth and the price he had to pay dearly by now. But thanks to those Pakistani peace gestures, that idiot still thinks that he can hit Pakistan without getting punished for his stupidity. I would say hit this idiot's azz hard this time and bust it, completely humiliating and disgracing him and his military. If we do that, Modi wouldn't be a prey to falsehood, his own stupidity, and miscalculation.


----------



## randomradio

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> An 'overreaction' would have been to actually bomb the different Indian military positions, instead of directing the bombs nearby as a warning.



Unfortunately, these warning shots fell off in all weird places instead of sending a message home, like the bottom of a gorge, and none exploded either.

Anyway, I'm gonna end it here. I think this thread's served its purpose.


----------



## The Accountant

randomradio said:


> Unfortunately, these warning shots fell off in all weird places instead of sending a message home, like the bottom of a gorge, and none exploded either.
> 
> Anyway, I'm gonna end it here. I think this thread's served its purpose.


So it took you 1 month to find out the execuse ... well whatever you pretend everyone knows the reality ...

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## NA71

" Don't take our peace efforts as our weakness"

this is our national statement since last 70 yrs. Indians have got the clue ...


----------



## alphibeti

Microsoft said:


> India does not know which pilots didn't come back on Feb27? The claim was 2 pilots where one died, you Indians seem to remember events from 50 years ago so well but not so well from 1 month?


They shamelessly kept claiming on 27/2 that all their planes and pilots are accounted for until Abhinandon's bloody face was flying on SM. Even then the brainless Indians were spreading lies by arguing that IAF code doesn't allow the funny mustaches on the bloody face of the downed dude as if these monkeys could not even see IAF flying suite on him. Finally, humiliated, taunted, and disgraced, Modi government had to accept the reality. But Indians are still lying about the sorrowful fate of SU-30 and its pilots. They'll shamelessly accept it once Pak releases the footage for the episode. These idiots think Pak has no footage and Modi can coarse IK into submission and get the pilot/body released quietly.

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## NA71

anyways....here in KHI no single AC fly ....no CAP....cool calm breezy air.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

NA71 said:


> anyways....here in KHI no single AC fly ....no CAP....cool calm breezy air.


Well DA 20 was spotted in Jauhar on tue and today at afternoon above ShahraeFaisal


----------



## NA71

we are trolling masters....their BP touches sky on TV channels....we damn care... not even a single news on media.....


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

NA71 said:


> anyways....here in KHI no single AC fly ....no CAP....cool calm breezy air.


Well CAPs aren't on border areas?


----------



## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> Forget MiG-21 , even the once so called invincible SU-30 is staying well clear of the LOC.


The flankers cant operate from any HAS on their FOBs, and arent suited to sitting open in QRF.

I mentioned many times that even today, the most capable jet the Indians have is the M2K.

They haven’t taken their Mig-29s out if their HAS while they figure out if they’ll even survive against our weapons before they get a shot off.

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## NA71

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Well DA 20 was spotted in Jauhar on tue and today at afternoon above ShahraeFaisal


usually we see couple of sorties in day....but DA 20 one round per day.....they are also chilling


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Oscar said:


> The flankers cant operate from any HAS on their FOBs, and arent suited to sitting open in QRF.
> 
> I mentioned many times that even today, the most capable jet the Indians have is the M2K.
> 
> They haven’t taken their Mig-29s out if their HAS while they figure out if they’ll even survive against our weapons before they get a shot off.


Can our JF 17s and F 16s have the capability to take on Mirage 2000s?


----------



## NA71

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Well CAPs aren't on border areas?


on there return to base they fly over my head every day....


----------



## NA71

M2K is beauty


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## NA71

CAP on coastal area is usually through Masroor.....


----------



## TsAr

VCheng said:


> If that Trishul is a challenge to PAF, I am sorely tempted to post up photo of a giant pe nis drawn in the sky by similar means as the PAF response, but I do not want to be banned.


@Admins and @Mods can he get a one time exception please 



randomradio said:


> What happened next day on the 27th was a complete overreaction to just four bombs that apparently "missed".
> 
> Had we not taken countermeasures we would have lost a lot of mid and high ranking soldiers at multiple targets and our two countries would have been at war now.
> 
> And our countermeasures worked because we have far more advanced technologies in place than you do. That's the reason why all the bombs fired from PAF aircraft missed. The same reason why none of the AMRAAMs managed to hit the MKIs.


By counter measures you mean the Tall Tree which deflected our bombs.......

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## alphibeti

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Can our JF 17s and F 16s have the capability to take on Mirage 2000s?


M2K ran away on 27/2. What do you think what caused them fleeing from the operation theater. It was Thunder. Indians feel utterly scared admitting that.



NA71 said:


> CAP on coastal area is usually through Masroor.....


I don't know why you are saying all that here on a public forum. May be some one could give you a shut up call. I know, I know its modern times, times of satellites, AWACS, blah blah blah. Still what forces you to share this information here regularly?



randomradio said:


> What happened next day on the 27th was a complete overreaction to just four bombs that apparently "missed".
> 
> Had we not taken countermeasures we would have lost a lot of mid and high ranking soldiers at multiple targets and our two countries would have been at war now.
> 
> And our countermeasures worked because we have far more advanced technologies in place than you do. That's the reason why all the bombs fired from PAF aircraft missed. The same reason why none of the AMRAAMs managed to hit the MKIs.
> 
> 
> 
> How's Makwal?
> 
> What's happening at Akhnoor Dagger?
> 
> Being in the military, you should have some idea of exactly what's happening.


Over reaction? Us many Pakistanis feel that it was by far under reaction. Modi should have been punished a bit harder. Not because you killed 350 'terrorists' but because you tried to kill scores of Pakistanis. Even more grave offensive was calling Madaressa kids/students as terrorists. You a$$ deserved more chhatrol.

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## kursed

randomradio said:


> The trishul airspace is practically over the LoC. It's a challenge to the PAF.



I did not intend to do this, since peace loving Hindus on our side may take offense. But just in terms of optics, the only Trishul that currently matters is this. 

No points for guessing, where this came from.

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## NA71

alphibeti said:


> M2K ran away on 27/2. What do you think what caused them fleeing from the operation theater. It was Thunder. Indians feel utterly scared admitting that.
> 
> 
> I don't know why you are saying all that here on a public forum. May be some one could give you a shut up call. I know, I know its modern times, times of satellites, AWACS, blah blah blah. Still what forces you to share this information here regularly?
> 
> 
> Over reaction? Us many Pakistanis feel that it was by far under reaction. Modi should have been punished a bit harder. Not because you killed 350 'terrorists' but because you tried to kill scores of Pakistanis. Even more grave offensive was calling Madaressa kids/students as terrorists. You a$$ deserved more chhatrol.


just my observations ....nothing more. will take care ....you are right.

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## waz

randomradio said:


> Most professionals wouldn't say we lost. Let's recap, shall we?
> 
> We attacked Pakistan's sovereign territory without being challenged.
> 
> You attacked 'disputed territory' and were challenged. Awantipore was a complete miss. Along with all the other targets.



Most professionals were laughing at you on every forum from Key Publishing to World Armed Forces to F16 dot net. Sure let's recap, you launched a strike at a bunch of trees, without challenge fair enough.
The PAF came in BROAD DAYLIGHT and hit areas right near sensitive military installations, and then waited for the IAF. They came and were engaged from multiple directions, the MKI's retreated after firing off R-77's, leaving the Migs one of which was shot down and fire also bought down your helicopter.




randomradio said:


> Ask your professionals what the 'actual' casualties are. Ask about Makwal.



My family not only live near the LOC but also serve there. Aside from heavy firing that is all that is going on, you can believe whatever fairy tales you want.

This from the 18th of March;

*One Indian soldier was killed and three more seriously injured in an exchange of fire early in the morning between Indian and Pakistani forces*

Russian source.

https://en.news-front.info/2019/03/...dian-pakistani-forces-in-makwal-sector-jammu/

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## Ali_Baba

What makes the whole even more embarrasing for the IAF than things at the moment, are that the IAF are MEANT to know the F16 Block 52+ capabilities inside out through their annual exercises with the Singapore F16s, Israeli F16s and USAF F16s through exercises.

PAF has had no direct exposure to the Su30MKI and seen a chinese analogue of it ( the J11 series and derivatives ), which makes the performance and current posture of the IAF all the more suprising !!!

They should know the performance of both the AMRAAM and F16 already as they have been given so many opportunities to learn it. Learning it the hardway and being scared of it now.. just shows they are stupid and were not paying attention!!


----------



## ziaulislam

alphibeti said:


> M2K ran away on 27/2. What do you think what caused them fleeing from the operation theater. It was Thunder. Indians feel utterly scared admitting that.
> 
> 
> I don't know why you are saying all that here on a public forum. May be some one could give you a shut up call. I know, I know its modern times, times of satellites, AWACS, blah blah blah. Still what forces you to share this information here regularly?
> 
> 
> Over reaction? Us many Pakistanis feel that it was by far under reaction. Modi should have been punished a bit harder. Not because you killed 350 'terrorists' but because you tried to kill scores of Pakistanis. Even more grave offensive was calling Madaressa kids/students as terrorists. You a$$ deserved more chhatrol.


Failure of balakot strikes could be mean one of two things
1. On purpose
2. The utmost form of incompetent for spike to miss a unguarded location 

Choose which ever one you feel is right one suggest lack of credibility the other competence of IAF



randomradio said:


> What happened next day on the 27th was a complete overreaction to just four bombs that apparently "missed".
> 
> Had we not taken countermeasures we would have lost a lot of mid and high ranking soldiers at multiple targets and our two countries would have been at war now.
> 
> And our countermeasures worked because we have far more advanced technologies in place than you do. That's the reason why all the bombs fired from PAF aircraft missed. The same reason why none of the AMRAAMs managed to hit the MKIs.
> 
> 
> 
> How's Makwal?
> 
> What's happening at Akhnoor Dagger?
> 
> Being in the military, you should have some idea of exactly what's happening.

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## randomradio

waz said:


> Most professionals were laughing at you on every forum from Key Publishing to World Armed Forces to F16 dot net. Sure let's recap, you launched a strike at a bunch of trees, without challenge fair enough.
> The PAF came in BROAD DAYLIGHT and hit areas right near sensitive military installations, and then waited for the IAF. They came and were engaged from multiple directions, the MKI's retreated after firing off R-77's, leaving the Migs one of which was shot down and fire also bought down your helicopter.



Just to clarify, none of the MKIs and M-2000s fired anything. ROE did not allow it.

I will be ending our conversation here regarding this.


----------



## Vortex

randomradio said:


> ....
> Otoh, all your AMRAAMs fired at the other jets missed, whereas our jets did not even bother to counterattack since their *RoEs* *did* *not* *allow* it *even* *when* *they* _*were*_ *attacked*.
> ....





randomradio said:


> Just to clarify, *none of the MKIs and M-2000s fired anything. ROE did not allow it.
> *
> I will be ending our conversation here regarding this.



What kind of air fart have you ?

Yes better end discussion here.

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## waz

randomradio said:


> Just to clarify, none of the MKIs and M-2000s fired anything. ROE did not allow it.
> 
> I will be ending our conversation here regarding this.



If you say so, no worries.

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## valkyr_96

waz said:


> If you say so, no worries.


cooking up RoEs they please.

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## SQ8

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Can our JF 17s and F 16s have the capability to take on Mirage 2000s?


Any day of the week

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## The Accountant

randomradio said:


> Just to clarify, none of the MKIs and M-2000s fired anything. ROE did not allow it.
> 
> I will be ending our conversation here regarding this.


Ohhh so they went up in the sky for picnic and were chasing PAF for shooting of top gun copy ... they didnt fire as they were not able to fire ...

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## SQ8

The Accountant said:


> Ohhh so they went up in the sky for picnic and were chasing PAF for shooting of top gun copy ... they didnt fire as they were not able to fire ...


When they have nothing but their own web of lies falling apart around them

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## Microsoft

Joe Shearer said:


> Let me go further.
> 
> Identify ONE suicide bombing from the 1980s.



I'll preface this by saying I don't know much about this matter but I googled a bit after reading your's (@Joe Shearer ) and @coffee_cup 's discussion. Here's *ONE* for you:

"And in July *1987*, the very first Tamil Tiger suicide attack occurred when a person by the name of Captain Miller drove a truck into a barracks of Sinhalese army troops who were sleeping, effectively trying to copy that attack. And that then set off the entire wave that came over the - over the next 20-something years."

Source: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104391493

Is this what you are looking for?

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## Slides

randomradio said:


> Just to clarify, none of the MKIs and M-2000s fired anything. ROE did not allow it.
> 
> I will be ending our conversation here regarding this.



Some kind of special RoE that only applies to the Su-30s and Mirages but not to the Mig-21s? Who are you people trying to fool?

Or does that indicate complete lack of situational awareness for the IAF?

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## Microsoft

AyanRay said:


> But it wasn't just 4 miles, was it? KPK isn't just 4 miles away from Indian border.



Do vedic missiles work by landing plane at target location dropping explosive lighting fuse then flying away before fuse hits explosive part?

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## NA71

My careful post #1.

*What does US/western military aviators think of Pakistani F-16 being shot down by an old Mig-21*

Sarmish Ray, former AWACS System Engineer
"Sorry, It’s so naive and absurd thinking that no one even bother to waste time to think about that.

Also we, every common Indian perfectly know the truth: The truth is (a) Indian MIG21 *never shot* down a Pakistani F16 and there is no proof about that (b) Rather a *Pakistani F16 shot down an Indian MIG21* and captured Indian pilot and later returned him to India (Thanks to PM Imran Khan for showing that gesture)."

complete and very interesting answer at:
https://www.quora.com/What-does-US-...kistani-F-16-being-shot-down-by-an-old-Mig-21


----------



## Evora

Why Abhinadan was unaware about his location. He was asking from locals that where he is means he doesn't know that he already crossed LOC. I don't think he will dare to cross once he knew that.
Once missile hit mig21 there were more than one object you can noticed in the air
1. Missile wreckage
2. Jet wreckage into pieces
3. Glass canopy removed before ejection
4. Pilot ejection seat
5. Pilot himself with parachute. 
I think these all falling objects from that far distance gave different impression and guessing for the viewers watching and making videos. Some were saying one pilot some were claiming two and so on.

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## drunken-monke

I have not seen the wreckage of F16, at least online, neither of Su30 MKI.. Mig 21 downed that's for sure.. Until then, i believe all things are just bragging/fog of war.. One thing for sure in Indian Armed forces, they do not hide their casualties (men). Can't say the same for Pakistani armed forces. We have seen that during Kargil.

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## Areesh

drunken-monke said:


> I have not seen the wreckage of F16, at least online, neither of Su30 MKI.. Mig 21 downed that's for sure.. Until then, i believe all things are just bragging/fog of war.. One thing for sure in Indian Armed forces, they do not hide their casualties (men). Can't say the same for Pakistani armed forces. We have seen that during Kargil.



Your military has successfully hidden blackbox of Mi17 that they themselves shot down and here you believe that they don't hide own casualties

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## drunken-monke

Areesh said:


> Your military has successfully hidden blackbox of Mi17 that they themselves shot down and here you believe that they don't hide own casualties


Read my post carefully where in bracket I have mentioned "men"..


----------



## Windjammer

drunken-monke said:


> I have not seen the wreckage of F16, at least online, neither of Su30 MKI.. Mig 21 downed that's for sure.. Until then, i believe all things are just bragging/fog of war.. One thing for sure in Indian Armed forces, they do not hide their casualties (men). Can't say the same for Pakistani armed forces. We have seen that during Kargil.


I guess like before, we will find out a decade later.

*Over 4,500 soldiers killed along LoC in Pak firing since 2001: Army*
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...ng-loc-in-pak-firing-since-2001-army-3738096/

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## Areesh

drunken-monke said:


> Read my post carefully where in bracket I have mentioned "men"..



"Men" are easier to hide than blackbox

I hope you can understand that


----------



## Joe Shearer

Microsoft said:


> I'll preface this by saying I don't know much about this matter but I googled a bit after reading your's (@Joe Shearer ) and @coffee_cup 's discussion. Here's *ONE* for you:
> 
> "And in July *1987*, the very first Tamil Tiger suicide attack occurred when a person by the name of Captain Miller drove a truck into a barracks of Sinhalese army troops who were sleeping, effectively trying to copy that attack. And that then set off the entire wave that came over the - over the next 20-something years."
> 
> Source: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104391493
> 
> Is this what you are looking for?



No.


----------



## Windjammer

*Is this how the Indians are now covering up their dead pilots.!!!*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113755958231162880

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## 1Paki$tani

Windjammer said:


> *Is this how the Indians are now covering up their dead pilots.!!!*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113755958231162880


LOL.... 

so how many Planes did they loose?? I started thread on this which was merged with another. It seems they lost quite a few more than the 2 ISPR is saying we shot down and they were Mig 21. however if one looks at PAF patch there was also one Su-30 thus making it 3 planes down.

So far Indian death toll.

1 was captured and returned. 
Mi-17 Crash they originally said 2 dead and there is video available where the officers on the scene confirm two dead bodies. However, by evening it was changed to 6 dead. So increase of 4 and now 2 dead. So total 6 dead plus 1 other pilot which Pakistan had who died. it is 7 dead and 1 captured. total 8.

So how many were lost is the question and for that reason Modi and their chief said they needed Rafale.



Areesh said:


> "Men" are easier to hide than blackbox
> 
> I hope you can understand that


Do military air crafts have black box??? I doubt they do.


----------



## Areesh

1Paki$tani said:


> Do military air crafts have black box??? I doubt they do.



they do. They do have equipment like flight data recorder etc

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## HawkEye27

Windjammer said:


> *Is this how the Indians are now covering up their dead pilots.!!!*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113755958231162880



The Su-30 that was shot down by PAF took off from Awantipur Air Base. This is a lot more than fishy

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## untitled

tipu_ssw said:


> The Su-30 that was shot down by PAF took off from Awantipur Air Base


Are Su30s forward deployed?


----------



## HawkEye27

member.exe said:


> Are Su30s forward deployed?



Offcourse! But Awantipur is covered by Srinagar first. MiG-21s on that day flew from Srinagar as per media


----------



## F86 Saber

Windjammer said:


> *Is this how the Indians are now covering up their dead pilots.!!!*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113755958231162880



Would be interesting to find out which aircraft were they assigned to before death. 

So the Indian members claiming Indian Army does not hide it's dead soldiers were right, they just change their cause of death.

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## 1Paki$tani

F86 Saber said:


> Would be interesting to find out which aircraft were they assigned to before death.
> 
> So the Indian members claiming Indian Army does not hide it's dead soldiers were right, they just change their cause of death.


One of them apparently SU-30


----------



## Taha Samad

tipu_ssw said:


> The Su-30 that was shot down by PAF took off from Awantipur Air Base. This is a lot more than fishy



Exactly my thoughts.


----------



## monitor

Windjammer said:


> *Is this how the Indians are now covering up their dead pilots.!!!*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113755958231162880



If any autopsy done it will revealed what caused their death . A dead body due to road accident and by destroyed fighter aircraft surly will different.


----------



## Safriz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1109259540426571778
Un-Edited Original video







Same video from Indian side.

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## Imran Khan

Nothing clear from heretbh

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## Trailer23

& its coming out now...!

Need to start a thread & put all the pieces together.


----------



## Tamiyah

Sir,Nothing can be said about this video cuz we cannot identify jets or maybe i am wrong,I should have been released earlier as Indian were denying our claim.


----------



## KhalaiMakhlooq

doesnt seem to be the terrain of AJK, you can see from the horizon.


----------



## Microsoft

Joe Shearer said:


> No.



What's the difference?


----------



## Goenitz

Crux of the matter is we need high mega pixel camera ready when there is situation like this... or we need @Stealth or @graphican idk which user upload HQ images.. just know he is now in Canada...


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## alphibeti

drunken-monke said:


> I have not seen the wreckage of F16, at least online, neither of Su30 MKI.. Mig 21 downed that's for sure.. Until then, i believe all things are just bragging/fog of war.. One thing for sure in Indian Armed forces, they do not hide their casualties (men). Can't say the same for Pakistani armed forces. We have seen that during Kargil.


"One thing for sure in Indian Armed forces, they do not hide their casualties (men). .." Only BS. Indians kept denying that any IAF plane was shot down by PAF. They knew fully well they were lying by claiming that all the planes and pilot are accounted for for the whole day. That BS ended only after Pak released videos of the pilot and Bison wreckage. Even after that they kept lying about F-16. And still lying about that. Dude you too are lying here. Be ashamed of yourself for continuous lies and getting busted repeatedly.

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## BRAVO_

hows about Radars data and audio communications and internal cameras data .... it is easy to unfold all the myths once if our ISPR want,


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## YeBeWarned

Its one of the worse videos of the conflict i seen so far .. nothing is clear


----------



## Safriz

Imran Khan said:


> Nothing clear from heretbh



Ok here is the hint..
The sun rises from the east and you can make out the sun's position and thi is early morning..
The video is recorded in Kashmir near LOC..
Now work out the relative position of the jets?


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## Evora

http://"https://timesofindia.indiat...ide-awantipora-base/articleshow/68724410.cms"
Billi thaile se bahir aa gye. SU30 Sqdn Leader and others died in road accident. Suspeciousssss

Please try this link
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...side-awantipora-base/articleshow/68724410.cms


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## NA71

2

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## Evora

The accident happened at 3am when there was no traffic. I have a gut feeling that these are the people who got killed when PAF took down IAF's jets. They're just making up shit to justify the killed to their families and media.

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## Imran Khan

شاھین میزایل said:


> Ok here is the hint..
> The sun rises from the east and you can make out the sun's position and thi is early morning..
> The video is recorded in Kashmir near LOC..
> Now work out the relative position of the jets?


Bhai mujhy itna pata hota to koi karobar na ker leta

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## Trailer23

Goenitz said:


> Crux of the matter is we need high mega pixel camera ready when there is situation like this...


*PTV* doesn't have those for any events & you expect them to be available in small towns & villages...


----------



## GriffinsRule

Evora said:


> The accident happened at 3am when there was no traffic. I have a gut feeling that these are the people who got killed when PAF took down IAF's jets. They're just making up shit to justify the killed to their families and media.


Or drunk driving and an electric pole took them out. Whoa cares


----------



## Thorough Pro

Looks like 2nd SU30 pilot also accounted for...……. waiting for dead mirage pilots to die again in "traffic accidents"



Windjammer said:


> *Is this how the Indians are now covering up their dead pilots.!!!*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113755958231162880

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## araz

monitor said:


> If any autopsy done it will revealed what caused their death . A dead body due to road accident and by destroyed fighter aircraft surly will different.


Can you explain how it would be different. The car and fighter jet both would suffer from frontal impact with similar patterns of sheer injuries to body and brain. There are no autopsy tools to suggest thhat one is more severe than the other. So your statement needs qualification.
A


----------



## drunken-monke

alphibeti said:


> "One thing for sure in Indian Armed forces, they do not hide their casualties (men). .." Only BS. Indians kept denying that any IAF plane was shot down by PAF. They knew fully well they were lying by claiming that all the planes and pilot are accounted for for the whole day. That BS ended only after Pak released videos of the pilot and Bison wreckage. Even after that they kept lying about F-16. And still lying about that. Dude you too are lying here. Be ashamed of yourself for continuous lies and getting busted repeatedly.


There is no reason for me to be ashamed of.. There is your truth and there is my truth and lastly the eternal truth.. I guess you are enough matured to understand the phrase..

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## Joe Shearer

Microsoft said:


> What's the difference?



When you locate it, it will become obvious immediately.


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

tipu_ssw said:


> The Su-30 that was shot down by PAF took off from Awantipur Air Base. This is a lot more than fishy





F86 Saber said:


> Would be interesting to find out which aircraft were they assigned to before death.
> 
> So the Indian members claiming Indian Army does not hide it's dead soldiers were right, they just change their cause of death.





1Paki$tani said:


> One of them apparently SU-30





Taha Samad said:


> Exactly my thoughts.





monitor said:


> If any autopsy done it will revealed what caused their death . A dead body due to road accident and by destroyed fighter aircraft surly will different.





alphibeti said:


> "One thing for sure in Indian Armed forces, they do not hide their casualties (men). .." Only BS. Indians kept denying that any IAF plane was shot down by PAF. They knew fully well they were lying by claiming that all the planes and pilot are accounted for for the whole day. That BS ended only after Pak released videos of the pilot and Bison wreckage. Even after that they kept lying about F-16. And still lying about that. Dude you too are lying here. Be ashamed of yourself for continuous lies and getting busted repeatedly.





Evora said:


> http://"https://timesofindia.indiat...ide-awantipora-base/articleshow/68724410.cms"
> Billi thaile se bahir aa gye. SU30 Sqdn Leader and others died in road accident. Suspeciousssss
> 
> Please try this link
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...side-awantipora-base/articleshow/68724410.cms





NA71 said:


> View attachment 551271
> 
> 
> View attachment 551272
> 
> 2





Evora said:


> The accident happened at 3am when there was no traffic. I have a gut feeling that these are the people who got killed when PAF took down IAF's jets. They're just making up shit to justify the killed to their families and media.





GriffinsRule said:


> Or drunk driving and an electric pole took them out. Whoa cares





Thorough Pro said:


> Looks like 2nd SU30 pilot also accounted for...……. waiting for dead mirage pilots to die again in "traffic accidents"


The deceased officer was from Administrative branch and belonged to 126 Ground Duty officers course.




Note: Website has not updated ranks for some years.

Injured officer Wg Cdr HS Bagga was also from admin branch

His relative also confirmed he died in car accident yesterday:






This report confirms a gypsy suv with number 8B 97411 hit an electric pole.

https://kashmirage.net/2019/04/04/s...air-force-personnel-killed-in-pulwama-mishap/


----------



## alphibeti

monitor said:


> If any autopsy done it will revealed what caused their death . A dead body due to road accident and by destroyed fighter aircraft surly will different.


You mean autopsy done by Indian doctors. On top of that Indian military doctors? Can you think of an Indian who is not a lying monster? Good luck.



drunken-monke said:


> There is no reason for me to be ashamed of.. There is your truth and there is my truth and lastly the eternal truth.. I guess you are enough matured to understand the phrase..


That's what I expected. Why an Indian ever be ashamed of lying?


----------



## drunken-monke

alphibeti said:


> You mean autopsy done by Indian doctors. On top of that Indian military doctors? Can you think of an Indian who is not a lying monster? Good luck.
> 
> 
> That's what I expected. Why an Indian ever be ashamed of lying?


There is no point in further debating with you.. Neither I would go for questioning your level of comprehension or IQ. 
Unless you stop observing the proceeding through prism of biasness and hatred towards fellow Indians, you wont understand the bloody point. We may or may not right, but then anything with labeled Indian would be allergic to you guyz.
Carry on the fantasies!!


----------



## 1Paki$tani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113910487555690504

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## Trailer23

Wanted to post this last night, marking the *500 Pages*, but got held up.

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## Type59

monitor said:


> If any autopsy done it will revealed what caused their death . A dead body due to road accident and by destroyed fighter aircraft surly will different.



Remember Bob Woolmer, Pakistan cricket coach. Initial, autopsy revealed he was strangled. Later after using a non Indian coroner, the results were different. Very disturbing episode for his family. Blind hatred for Pakistan, undermined his professionalism.


----------



## TsAr

https://www.geo.tv/latest/233269-dg...ruth-as-claims-of-shooting-down-f-16-debunked


----------



## Jammer

US officials did a inventory audit of PAF F16's, the answer is crystal clear, especially for those that are not connected to Pak armed forces:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/0...ojx7I66MwnW6Y1-zvJ04d76pqh3E2boqlL29RWjbcZdv4

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## Xeric

Hun aram aye..??


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103401703167221760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114192487210524672

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## Philip the Arab

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Your jets have been falling off the sky like flies for "technical reasons". At least you have a convincing reason this time to tell yourselves.


You should come back to this forum. I have seen your old posts and you would be a good addition to the Arab defence forum.


----------



## ahtan_china



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## Trailer23

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 551750


Ehhh, yeah. Sorry to disappoint but we already had a Topic which covered this image and another with the 'Kill' markings & had to close it because...they're Fake.

Notice the front of the Aircraft - its has no Serial Number as are visible on ALL JF-17's.

The other thing is the JF-17 that shot down the IAF was a Block II. How do we know it was a Block II... Because in the Celebration video - you can tell it clearly.

But thanx, anyways.

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## ahtan_china

Trailer23 said:


> Ehhh, yeah. Sorry to disappoint but we already had a Topic which covered this image and another with the 'Kill' markings & had to close it because...they're Fake.
> 
> Notice the front of the Aircraft - its has no Serial Number as are visible on ALL JF-17's.
> 
> The other thing is the JF-17 that shot down the IAF was a Block II. How do we know it was a Block II... Because in the Celebration video - you can tell it clearly.
> 
> But thanx, anyways.


Thank you very much for your information. The CHN/PAK government will not directly speak to the public about truth because it involve a lot of deal under table.
So we should look for the evidence by ourself.


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## Thorough Pro

Although I absolutely loath this self proclaimed military expert and delusional wanna be "intellectual" but finally he admit that MI17 was shot down by themselves, but where it gets funny is now he thinks they shot down and JF-17 or a Mirage because the Americans have confirmed that F-16 was not shot down. These Indians survive on lies.

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## Trailer23

I did not want to start a NEW Topic, but thought i'd share this info/video here. Was looking for material for a new project of mine .

Found this clip posted earlier today on India Today.

In it, Minister of Foreign Affairs speaks of *another attack* brewing up between the *16th to 20th*. Not sure as to why there is so much focus on those 5 Days & why we needed to release that information out.






Sorry, just edited the post.... The complete Press Conference from Multan is (below):
-courtesy of Geo News


----------



## Philip the Arab

Trailer23 said:


> I did not want to start a NEW Topic, but thought i'd share this info/video here. Was looking for material for a new project of mine .
> 
> Found this clip posted earlier today on India Today.
> 
> In it, Minister of Foreign Affairs speaks of *another attack* brewing up between the *16th to 20th*. Not sure as to why there is so much focus on those 5 Days & why we needed to release that information out.


I never understand why whites Indians can get higher positions than dark Indians. I mean look at the F*cking reporter. And why does the news channel look like CNN in 2008? I mean they should at least modernize.


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## Trailer23

Philip the Arab said:


> I never understand why whites Indians can get higher positions than dark Indians. I mean look at the F*cking reporter. And why does the news channel look like CNN in 2008? I mean they should at least modernize.


Sorry bro. *I* for one am NOT going to open the Pandora's Box on that conversation. Staying clear...


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## Stealth



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## HawkEye27

Very rare ejections happen above 10,000 ft. However, when Abhinandan was shot ans he ejected well above 10,000 ft ASL the chute with seat may also have blossomed. This may have created the confusion. Whats the take of house on that?

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## untitled

We all know that a second pilot was involved.

Is this your own picture?

Don't think the main parachute deploys above 10000 ft. It only deploys when the pilot has fallen to an air breathable altitude

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## HawkEye27

member.exe said:


> We all know that a second pilot was involved.
> 
> Is this your own picture?
> 
> Don't think the parachute deploys above 10000 ft. It only deploys when the pilot has fallen to an air breathable altitude



Parachute for pilot may deploy immediately. Because seat can’t sense what is the height below. What is he is flying over a 15000ft mountain. So thats not true

And thats my source : http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/sites/kraft/km1.htm

And how come you know second pilot was there? All evidence we have in videos is of second chute.


----------



## untitled

tipu_ssw said:


> Parachute for pilot may deploy immediately.


It can but shouldn't. The pilot can die from the lack of oxygen at higher altitudes



tipu_ssw said:


> And how come you know second pilot was there? A


DGISPR himself talks of a pilot that died in custody


----------



## Tipu7

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115262763511767042
@Windjammer @Side-Winder @HRK

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## nomi007

But Zafar Halali told an other story


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## Yaseen1

Ispr later when talking to media confirmed that one pilot died so i think 2nd pilot belongs to israel and due to u.s pressure ispr is not releasing his details


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## Bratva

Tipu7 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115262763511767042
> @Windjammer @Side-Winder @HRK
> 
> View attachment 552076
> View attachment 552077
> View attachment 552078
> View attachment 552079
> View attachment 552080
> View attachment 552081



Your entire theory about 2nd pilot and fog of war confusion is completely wrong. Don't present it as a fact on twitter or elsewhere and give Indians and others to discredit you entirely later on. 

2nd Pilot died in CMH as per DG ISPR. PM IK also mentioned 2nd pilot.

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## Tipu7

Bratva said:


> Your entire theory about 2nd pilot and fog of war confusion is completely wrong. Don't present it as a fact on twitter or elsewhere and give Indians and others to discredit you entirely later on.
> 
> 2nd Pilot died in CMH as per DG ISPR. PM IK also mentioned 2nd pilot.


There is no 2nd pilot.
IK quoted ISPR references which were wrong. 
And NO pilot died in CMH.

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## Bratva

Tipu7 said:


> There is no 2nd pilot.
> IK quoted ISPR references which were wrong.
> And NO pilot died in CMH.



You are stating in absolute manner. So let me ask, have you been informed ? Either DG ISPR lied constantly after 27 FEB or either you are putting wrong info out there. God Forbid if ISPR adopt your narrative. We will for sure become a laughing stock, our credibility will nose dive. No one will believe us afterwards. We will know shortly once DG ISPR hold another press conference.

P.S. DG ISPR said to Kamran Khan on 4th or 5th March that 2nd pilot died in CMH, He had plenty of time to correct himself but he didn't. So Unless he denies it. I'm not gonna believe your theory presented as absolute fact. If you want to become a laughing stock on twitter, go ahead. We need to be absolutely careful now what we have to put on twitter !

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## Tipu7

Bratva said:


> You are stating in absolute manner. So let me ask, have you been informed ? Either DG ISPR lied constantly after 27 FEB or either you are putting wrong info out there. God Forbid if ISPR adopt your narrative. We will for sure become a laughing stock, our credibility will nose dive. No one will believe us afterwards. We will know shortly once DG ISPR will hold another press conference.


Pal, the clear justification is that ISPR mis quoted several things, from two pilots to use of F16. And this was not appreciated in all circles of armed forces. 
It's better to admit the lack of clarity in flow of information and Absense of sufficient time to confirm similar news coming from different sources, instead of coming up with unrealistic back up stories. Like, one pilot captured, 2 in area (news taken directly from mouth of locals who were confuse what they actually saw) and news regarding one pilot in custody and other in hospital.(abhi was moved to hospital during crisis) or coming up with unrealistic argumentative approach that 2nd Pilot Died! It's unprofessional, unjustified and trust breaching attitude.
If IAF can change its stance over and over again following clarity with time, then why can't DG ISPR?

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## Bratva

Tipu7 said:


> Pal, the clear justification is that ISPR mis quoted several things, from two pilots to use of F16. And this was not appreciated in all circles of armed forces.
> It's better to admit the lack of clarity in flow of information and Absense of sufficient time to confirm similar news coming from different sources, instead of coming up with unrealistic back up stories. Like, one pilot captured, 2 in area (news taken directly from mouth of locals who were confuse what they actually saw) and news regarding one pilot in custody and other in hospital.(abhi was moved to hospital during crisis) or coming up with unrealistic argumentative approach that 2nd Pilot Died! It's unprofessional, unjustified and trust breaching attitude.
> If IAF can change its stance over and over again following clarity with time, then why can't DG ISPR?



Let ISPR deny it then. Until then Your argument has no value or factual thing in it because your theory if ISPR acknowledge after two months will destroy the entire Pakistani narrative. 

And kindly don;t give indians cannon fodder to use it against us. Use I think, In my opinion, I believe this may have happened in your so called explanations. You are only theorizing, Not stating absolute facts based on any kind of proofs.

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## Tipu7

Bratva said:


> Let ISPR deny it then. Until then Your argument has no value or factual thing in it because your theory if ISPR acknowledge after two months will destroy the entire Pakistani narrative.
> 
> And kindly don;t give indians cannon fodder to use it against us. Use I think, In my opinion, I believe this may have happened in your so called explanations. You are only theorizing, Not stating absolute facts based on any kind of proofs.


I will not unnecessarily argue with you. But if u want to know the point I am making, check latest tweet by DG ISPR, he is categorically stating that TWO IAF jets were downed by PAF, but so far wreckage of only Mig21 is found. Some people initially mistook Mi17 wrecks as that of Su30, and this tweet again give Indian incentive that ISPR is confusing itself by mistaking wrecks of Mi17 being that of 2nd aircraft. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115309097245605894

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## baqai

i dont understand why ISPR is finding it necessary to answer each and every claim of their's, something is cooking lets see what happens


----------



## Critical

Ghost 125 said:


> ok these videos proves nothing nd absolutely nothing is clear in them...ab jese marzi commentry kar lo in par , chahay to F22 bhi gira lo is pe


Finally



randomradio said:


> One would like to see the other burnt up parts as well. But, by quirk of circumstances, parts of missiles that are actually found after they are expended have been displayed, while the parts that make the kill are not. Weird, don't you think?


See the other images where it was still attached to the pylon


----------



## Critical

Tipu7 said:


> I will not unnecessarily argue with you. But if u want to know the point I am making, check latest tweet by DG ISPR, he is categorically stating that TWO IAF jets were downed by PAF, but so far wreckage of only Mig21 is found. Some people initially mistook Mi17 wrecks as that of Su30, and this tweet again give Indian incentive that ISPR is confusing itself by mistaking wrecks of Mi17 being that of 2nd aircraft.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115309097245605894


Are you sure some people and ispr can be equal?
ISPR took it time to come out on 27/2


----------



## ghazi52

*Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* 
@OfficialDGISPR

Repetitions don’t make truth of a lie. Despite claiming possession of evidence on shooting F16, IAF still short of presenting it. Don’t overlook Pakistan’s silence for not drum beating losses on Indian side. Fact is that PAF shot down two IAF jets, wreckage seen on ground by all.

10:43 AM - 8 Apr 2019

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## Trailer23

Tipu7 said:


> Some people initially mistook Mi17 wrecks as that of Su30, and this tweet again give Indian incentive that ISPR is confusing itself by mistaking wrecks of Mi17 being that of 2nd aircraft.


Well some of the blame should be shared by the Pakistani Media.

I get it that our Media is not nearly as strong as that of the West and/or India. But false reporting (regarding Foreign events) should be filtered prior to making the on the hour news*.

*Every f#ckin' news appears to be 'BREAKING NEWS'.

Sadly, there are people in a news channels sitting on Google & YouTube - searching for whatever material possible. It has happened from the otherside, too.

All I know is that in most countries, if a news outlet was to print or air false information, needs to retract or face prosecution.


----------



## Tipu7

Bratva said:


> Your entire theory about 2nd pilot and fog of war confusion is completely wrong. Don't present it as a fact on twitter or elsewhere and give Indians and others to discredit you entirely later on.
> 
> 2nd Pilot died in CMH as per DG ISPR. PM IK also mentioned 2nd pilot.










https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...AF1C7K1WqDkYrMseGQMYbErziAE62Dee3eaZIh5_vHcdg

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

The "2nd pilot" is now as precious as an alien from a UFO....

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## Oruc

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> The "2nd pilot" is now as precious as an alien from a UFO....


You mean he is transferred to Area 51.

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## Taha Samad

Tipu7 said:


> View attachment 552182
> View attachment 552183
> 
> https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...AF1C7K1WqDkYrMseGQMYbErziAE62Dee3eaZIh5_vHcdg



Now I am beginning to think the same that 2nd pilot was result of miscommunication.


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## NA71

new twist ...

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## newb3e

NA71 said:


> new twist ...


bhai is chumpo ko suno but serious na lo!


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## NA71

newb3e said:


> bhai is chumpo ko suno but serious na lo!


hahahaha just great....i assure you this chumpo is a real insider. believe me...watch his previous videos... his predictions turned out to be real stories (80% I guess)


----------



## 1Paki$tani

I was watching something by Nadeem Paracha on twitter and something caught my eye.

In the video if you forward to 48 second mark you will notice that there is a press conference where their spoke person for MEA and Air Force is present and there is ticker on the top right of the screen which reads

"PAK F-16 SHOT DOWN BY GROUND FIRE"

Seriously this was also another version..... what else do they want to claim.



*I wrote the above in another thread. So initially it seems they were claiming F-16 down by ground fire and not Mig-21.
*
Here is the link to confirming their initial claim of hit by ground fire.

_As the PAF jets approached the LoC, the Indian Air Force (IAF) scrambled fighters. Retaliatory fire from the ground force forced the F-16s to return but not before one took a hit and went down. _


//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68182512.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

F-16 down due to ground fire. this was their claim on 27 Feb.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/iaf-downs-pakistan-air-force-f-16/326209


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## TheTallGuy

Hello Everyone, 
IAF should be worried about Rafale Jets as well. i was going through Qatar rafale deal and guess what i found

"Qatari personnel will be trained at Base Aérienne 118 Mont-de-Marsan in southwestern France, Rochefort, and the Joint Intelligence Training Institute in Strasbourg. *The first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers. Escadron de Chasse 04.030 was established at Mont-de-Marsan as the Qatar Rafale Squadron on Oct. 1, 2017*. The Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, visited the Qatari Rafale Squadron at Mont-de-Marsan on July 6, 2018, accompanied by French defense minister Florence Parly.

Link: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-13/first-rafale-handed-over-qatar

Is that mean PAF pilots and engineers have more then enough knowledge of Rafale Avionics and ECM/ESM/ECCM systems plus how to deploy it properly. 

Does that mean For IAF Rafales are compromised?

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## metalfalcon

1Paki$tani said:


> I was watching something by Nadeem Paracha on twitter and something caught my eye.
> 
> In the video if you forward to 48 second mark you will notice that there is a press conference where their spoke person for MEA and Air Force is present and there is ticker on the top right of the screen which reads
> 
> "PAK F-16 SHOT DOWN BY GROUND FIRE"
> 
> Seriously this was also another version..... what else do they want to claim.
> 
> 
> 
> *I wrote the above in another thread. So initially it seems they were claiming F-16 down by ground fire and not Mig-21.
> *
> Here is the link to confirming their initial claim of hit by ground fire.
> 
> _As the PAF jets approached the LoC, the Indian Air Force (IAF) scrambled fighters. Retaliatory fire from the ground force forced the F-16s to return but not before one took a hit and went down. _
> 
> 
> //economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68182512.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
> 
> F-16 down due to ground fire. this was their claim on 27 Feb.
> 
> https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/iaf-downs-pakistan-air-force-f-16/326209



Indians are always coming up with some fairy tales, only in their wonderful fantasies they have killed 350+ terrorists and shot down a Pakistani F-16 while the reality is their MIG-21 Pilot W/C Abhi is still having PTSD


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## NA71

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115910672095883264
watch vid.


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## Mr.Cringeworth

Rakesh said:


> That exactly is puzzling (rather than loss of Su30). If I remember correctly during press conference by Indian Army, it was called an act of war, still no response. What are they waiting for ? Elections ? surprised by Pakistan response or better senses has prevailed due to influence of global players ?


So indirectly you're admitting you're a bunch of pussies.


----------



## Ali_Baba

NA71 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115910672095883264
> watch vid.
> 
> View attachment 552427



Abhi was v.v.v.v lucky that the Army got to him soo quickly otherwise he would have been in serious trouble for sure!


----------



## Xeric

tipu_ssw said:


> View attachment 552052
> 
> 
> Very rare ejections happen above 10,000 ft. However, when Abhinandan was shot ans he ejected well above 10,000 ft ASL the chute with seat may also have blossomed. This may have created the confusion. Whats the take of house on that?


You are absolutely correct. Just an addition, there was also a third chute i.e. the drogue/drag parachute:


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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116406425088086017

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116406606504386561


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## BATMAN

Ali_Baba said:


> Abhi was v.v.v.v lucky that the Army got to him soo quickly otherwise he would have been in serious trouble for sure!


Kashmir will never be a friendly place for Indians.
All Indians should stay down south, where they actually belong!

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## TheTallGuy

try to listen (caption will help)also this is F-16s 1st AIM120 kill(MiG-25) notice HUD and Radar scope. as you can see and hear too much important chatter and visual details like height and maneuvers including fabled viper turn.

its a treat to watch and understand/realize

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## maverick1977

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...21-bison-versus-pakistani-f-16-viper-bullshit

F16 being shot analysis ...


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## NA71

Interesting find:

https://t.co/oLVdMmBYFk

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## Comrade

NA71 said:


> Interesting find:
> 
> https://t.co/oLVdMmBYFk


Interesting no doubt..,.,,.


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## NA71

Russian learning IAF tactics of evading AIM120 

https://idrw.org/how-to-dodge-amraams-russian-keen-on-the-passing-of-tactics-to-all-su-30-operators/

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## siegecrossbow

NA71 said:


> Russian learning IAF tactics of evading AIM120
> 
> https://idrw.org/how-to-dodge-amraams-russian-keen-on-the-passing-of-tactics-to-all-su-30-operators/



This is the same link that "leaked Indian mkis detecting J-20 flying in Tibet..

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## NA71

siegecrossbow said:


> This is the same link that "leaked Indian mkis detecting J-20 flying in Tibet..



The Russian, according to this report, sharing the IAF experience with other SU customers. today another article appeared with 100% evidence of F16 shooting down....Indian quite busy.....these days.

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## siegecrossbow

NA71 said:


> The Russian, according to this report, sharing the IAF experience with other SU customers. today another article appeared with 100% evidence of F16 shooting down....Indian quite busy.....these days.



Since China is also a Su-30 customer I wonder if Russia needs IAF's approval to share the secret with China.

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## ZAC1

Heard paf is upgrading jf-17 on emergency bases...so whts the upgrades on block 2...?


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## TheTallGuy

NA71 said:


> Russian learning IAF tactics of evading AIM120
> 
> https://idrw.org/how-to-dodge-amraams-russian-keen-on-the-passing-of-tactics-to-all-su-30-operators/



This para just killed me  yeh koi rajnikanth ki movie say inspirations what an idiot!

"F-16 while flying nearly at 40000 feet used it’s altitude to its advantage and fired multiple rounds of AIM-120C-5 at *lone Su-30 guarding a military installation at 15-16000 feet*. AIM-120C-5, when fired from that altitude, will get the maximum range extracted from its missile and this is one of the reasons that low flying Su-30s were not able to get missile firing clearance from their onboard cueing systems for its R-77 missile which too has a range similar to AIM-120C-5 but won’t have reached F-16s even if fired manually, since it carried lower range at that altitude. F-16 pilots were flying at 40000 feet for a reason and knew that in a WVR engagement where Angle of Attack is severally limited to F-16 could have handed Su-30s an easy win over them and Su-30 is also known for phenomenal maneuverability below 20000 feet and should have used its maximum sustained turn rate of 22 degrees a second to not only dodge AIM-120C-5 missiles fired at it but also used its onboard jammers of Israeli origin to its full advantage to make this air to air missiles almost like a Un-guided Rockets. Superior Pilot training and tactics developed by Indian pilots who are regularly engaged with Western fighter types world over in major air exercises came handy to outmaneuver such a modern air to air missile that many Su-30 operators are already approaching Indian Airforce through Russian government to learn and study tactics used by IAF that day against AIM-120C-5 missiles. IAF is cautious since military operations are still ongoing but might brief few allies who also operates Su-30s in coming months until then pilots flying Su-30 that day might thank his stars and superior skills that he knew his aircraft better than the F-16 pilot who wasted his missiles.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/how-to-dodge-amraams-russian-keen-on-the-passing-of-tactics-to-all-su-30-operators/ .

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## Cuirassier

TheTallGuy said:


> This para just killed me  yeh koi rajnikanth ki movie say inspirations what an idiot!
> 
> "F-16 while flying nearly at 40000 feet used it’s altitude to its advantage and fired multiple rounds of AIM-120C-5 at *lone Su-30 guarding a military installation at 15-16000 feet*. AIM-120C-5, when fired from that altitude, will get the maximum range extracted from its missile and this is one of the reasons that low flying Su-30s were not able to get missile firing clearance from their onboard cueing systems for its R-77 missile which too has a range similar to AIM-120C-5 but won’t have reached F-16s even if fired manually, since it carried lower range at that altitude. F-16 pilots were flying at 40000 feet for a reason and knew that in a WVR engagement where Angle of Attack is severally limited to F-16 could have handed Su-30s an easy win over them and Su-30 is also known for phenomenal maneuverability below 20000 feet and should have used its maximum sustained turn rate of 22 degrees a second to not only dodge AIM-120C-5 missiles fired at it but also used its onboard jammers of Israeli origin to its full advantage to make this air to air missiles almost like a Un-guided Rockets. Superior Pilot training and tactics developed by Indian pilots who are regularly engaged with Western fighter types world over in major air exercises came handy to outmaneuver such a modern air to air missile that many Su-30 operators are already approaching Indian Airforce through Russian government to learn and study tactics used by IAF that day against AIM-120C-5 missiles. IAF is cautious since military operations are still ongoing but might brief few allies who also operates Su-30s in coming months until then pilots flying Su-30 that day might thank his stars and superior skills that he knew his aircraft better than the F-16 pilot who wasted his missiles.
> 
> idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/how-to-dodge-amraams-russian-keen-on-the-passing-of-tactics-to-all-su-30-operators/ .


They only found one AIM-120 casing, what's with the salvo drama. The sole AMRAAM shot was from outside the NEZ but did it's job of deterring the Su30s from crossing the LC following the downing of the Bison.


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## Zee-shaun

Guys, please prey for the safety of our boys at the border and in the air tonight.

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## Vortex

Zee-shaun said:


> Guys, please prey for the safety of our boys at the border and in the air tonight.


We should pray for their safety everyday.

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## TheTallGuy

Zee-shaun said:


> Guys, please prey for the safety of our boys at the border and in the air tonight.



"Inna ma'al usri yusra" Verily with every hardship comes ease. (Al-Qur'an)

Allah Hamara Hami o Nasir ho!

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## SIPRA

Zee-shaun said:


> Guys, please prey for the safety of our boys at the border and in the air tonight.



Is there some special danger tonight?


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## Zee-shaun

RIWWIR said:


> Is there some special danger tonight?



Yes, the border is very hot at the moment. 
Inna ma'al usri yusra.


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## SIPRA

Zee-shaun said:


> Yes, the border is very hot at the moment.
> Inna ma'al usri yusra.



OK. There is no news in the media.


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## BATMAN

NA71 said:


> Interesting find:
> 
> https://t.co/oLVdMmBYFk



What makes the story more interesting is that at the same time Iran and Afghanistan were also ready to join Israel lead Indian aggression!
While on Pakistan side, politicians had absolutely forbidden our boyz not to shoot Indian army and pilots were told to abort when Indian jets were locked.



Zee-shaun said:


> Yes, the border is very hot at the moment.
> Inna ma'al usri yusra.



Allah help our boyz.

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## Vortex

If it’s true, then sure something big, very big is coming.

We should put all our forces on *full red bold alert.
*
May Allah protect Pakistan.


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## The Eagle

NA71 said:


> media reporting ...



Which is media is reporting?


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## Keysersoze

Vortex said:


> *full red bold alert.
> *
> How about partial yellow alert? Or how about waiting and seeing what has happened. Need to stop flapping so much.
> ..


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## SIPRA

The Eagle said:


> Which is media is reporting?



As such, I have not found any media report on it.


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## Trailer23

I'm flying to UET (Quetta) early in the morning (after midnite) - unless something BIG happens & they close the Airspace (again).


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## SIPRA

Or an ORANGE alert, to be on the safer side.


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## The Eagle

RIWWIR said:


> As such, I have not found any media report on it.



I will be dealing harshly with such hypes without any credibility. Fake News will meet with Red Coloured Account.

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## Trailer23

Well..., God forbid if something were to happen - can we retire this Topic & just start a new...

You know, I just browsed through 5-6 News Channels (Live) on YouTube & all I see is Bilawal Zardari & some unrelated stuff.


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## Pakistani Fighter

Zee-shaun said:


> Guys, please prey for the safety of our boys at the border and in the air tonight.


What happened?


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## Vortex

@Keysersoze 

it was agreed by most knowledgeable members here that indians will do something stupid. And I know that our Armed Forces are ready. What could I do against jazba ? 


I’m poor civilian guy with little knowledge so as I don’t know if we have different state of alert as Americans have ( defcon levels) so I used as a joke bold full red level.


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## Pakistani Fighter

Zee-shaun said:


> Yes, the border is very hot at the moment.
> Inna ma'al usri yusra.


Loc is hot always


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## Zee-shaun

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> What happened?



I will not speculate or post fist hand info coming from my village anymore.
Yes the LoC is always hot. Pray for the best.

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## NA71

plz ...I am just trying to share info....from twitter today......the two handles constantly posting one is theMystic and the other is delete. 
see what is posted few minutes ago.....MOD has every right to delete my posts ....tabedaar.


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## Trailer23

Well, my carrier hasn't sent any notification regarding the PAK Airspace (so far). Tonite was supposed to be my first flight after a couple of weeks off & it so happens its to Pakistan.

_If_ something comes up (from my end), i'll share with you lot.

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## The Eagle

NA71 said:


> plz ...I am just trying to share info....from twitter today......the two handles constantly posting one is theMystic and the other is delete.
> see what is posted few minutes ago.....MOD has every right to delete my posts ....tabedaar.



Speaking of NOTAM, which can be verified is different thing as compare to evacuation of embassy staff etc. You need to understand the difference and above all, some random account posting unsubstantiated news does not carry any weight or worth to share here. Such hoaxes are nothing but score some points pretending to be insider or informed. We all need to act responsibly and inquire before posting as such. Not everything is credible on Social Media. No media mentions such emergency except a random account.

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## NA71

The Eagle said:


> Speaking of NOTAM, which can be verified is different thing as compare to evacuation of embassy staff etc. You need to understand the difference and above all, some random account posting unsubstantiated news does not carry any weight or worth to share here. Such hoaxes are nothing but score some points pretending to be insider or informed. We all need to act responsibly and inquire before posting as such. Not everything is credible on Social Media. No media mentions such emergency except a random account.


noted and will follow...IA.....


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## Pakistani Fighter

Trailer23 said:


> Well, my carrier hasn't sent any notification regarding the PAK Airspace (so far). Tonite was supposed to be my first flight after a couple of weeks off & it so happens its to Pakistan.
> 
> _If_ something comes up (from my end), i'll share with you lot.


Any news?



Zee-shaun said:


> I will not speculate or post fist hand info coming from my village anymore.
> Yes the LoC is always hot. Pray for the best.


Loc Ok?


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## Trailer23

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Any news?


Everything is fine, guys. I doubt they'd be foolish to try something...


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## baqai

slightly off topic, shouldn't we create awareness of air raids, i have never heard air raid siren and doubt would know God forbid if it's on to know what it is, also general public awareness need to be raised to know what to do in such circumstances, our nation is the one which rushes to seaview to see an approaching hurricane

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## Trailer23

Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.

But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.






I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/

@Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar

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## Imran Khan

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar


yaar os BC f-7 ko to hatao ab videos se


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## Trailer23

Imran Khan said:


> yaar os BC f-7 ko to hatao ab videos se


Sahee kh-rahay ho, bhai. Next time i'll add the soon-to-be inducted Mirages from Egypt .

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## Imran Khan

Trailer23 said:


> Sahee kh-rahay ho, bhai. Next time i'll add the soon-to-be inducted Mirages from Egypt .


wo to jesy f35 hain

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## graphican

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar



It's a golden talent. Congratulations for receiving it. Keep pumping blood, sweat and your spirit in... you are producing top of the line content. MaShaAllah.

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## Liquidmetal

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar


Bloody fantastic, editing was great, that was a lot hard work, a labour of love and it shows, superb!


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## Maxpane

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar


you are awesom buddy


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## airomerix

Amazing video! Gave me goosebumps!


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## The Eagle

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar



Post thread in Military Multimedia.


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## Khanivore

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar


Top notch stuff! Loved it, keep up the awesome work. Hope to see more!!

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## khanasifm

https://www.rt.com/news/457701-iaf-report-admits-failures-pakistan/


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## airomerix

khanasifm said:


> https://www.rt.com/news/457701-iaf-report-admits-failures-pakistan/



A very lame article.

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## Shane

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar


Good use of the virticle limit clip at the start, lol, what the original film makers intended as a cheap shot against Pak army, you turned it into a poke in the eyes for the Indians, lol.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Trailer23 said:


> Its just a coincidence (I swear) that I finished editing my new vid _exactly_ 02 Months after the events that took place on the 27th of Feb.
> 
> But this one covers not just the Air Force, but the *Pakistan Armed Forces* altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also taken the liberty of adding it to a copy of it to my Topic of my Video Edits, for those (new Members) who have not seen my earlier work.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Zarvan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @ghazi52 @Dazzler @araz @fatman17 @Knuckles @Hodor @Sabretooth @Pakhtoon yum @Aiman talha hashmi @Okasha Zahid @Maxpane @Umair Nawaz @JohnWick @salman-1 @khanasifm @Super Falcon @HRK @war&peace @Zulfiqar @Ozee @Liquidmetal @MBilal106 @mingle @Liquidmetal @Path-Finder @Mrc @Starlord @graphican @The Sandman @War Thunder @khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Haroon Baloch @Beast @I S I @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PWFI @Vortex @Thorough Pro @PAKISTANFOREVER @Myth_buster_1 @crankthatskunk @Gillani88 @PWFI @Rafi @member.exe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @_Sherdils_ @Haroon Baloch @Vortex @Microsoft @Asimz @Falcon26 @Ali_Baba @Rafi @MBilal106 @khansaheeb @Arsalan @AgNoStiC MuSliM @M.AsfandYar


A comprehensive summary of valor and might.....

A great job. Keep on producing more...

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## Ali_Baba

Is the use of the AMRAAM-120C5 by PAF in February 2019 the first recorded use of the AMRAAM-120C5 in operational combat use ?


----------



## TsAr

Wonder what he has to say...

https://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/489120-DG-ISPR-to-address-important-press-conference-on-Monday-
@Windjammer @Tps43 @airomerix any clue guys.


----------



## uzbi aka viper

graphican said:


> It's a golden talent. Congratulations for receiving it. Keep pumping blood, sweat and your spirit in... you are producing top of the line content. MaShaAllah.


i wished for saab awac releasing flares ,should be included in this video, as they played a very crucial role, anyways very rejuvenating video.


----------



## 1Paki$tani

https://theprint.in/defence/black-b...-missing-villagers-may-have-stolen-it/228536/

So now the black box has gone missing...


----------



## airomerix

TsAr said:


> Wonder what he has to say...
> 
> https://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/489120-DG-ISPR-to-address-important-press-conference-on-Monday-
> @Windjammer @Tps43 @airomerix any clue guys.



We'll have to see what domains he touches. My best guess is current LoC situation will be the focal point. Or maybe if we're lucky, the talk of second pilot will take place. Let's see.


----------



## maverick1977

__ https://www.facebook.com/






This video talks about mirage 2000 as well... I am hoping to see 2 HUD videos of planes being fired at with a distant explosion and smoking trail of hit


----------



## airomerix

maverick1977 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This video talks about mirage 2000 as well... I am hoping to see 2 HUD videos of planes being fired at with a distant explosion and smoking trail of hit



The recorded data by ACMI onboard the aircraft which shot down Su-30 shows nothing significant since it was a BVR kill.


----------



## Trailer23

graphican said:


> It's a golden talent. Congratulations for receiving it. Keep pumping blood, sweat and your spirit in... you are producing top of the line content. MaShaAllah.





Liquidmetal said:


> Bloody fantastic, editing was great, that was a lot hard work, a labour of love and it shows, superb!





Maxpane said:


> you are awesom buddy





airomerix said:


> Amazing video! Gave me goosebumps!





Khanivore said:


> Top notch stuff! Loved it, keep up the awesome work. Hope to see more!!





Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> A comprehensive summary of valor and might.....
> 
> A great job. Keep on producing more...


Thanx guys. Yep, that's the idea, but lack of footage prevents me from coming up with new material. Hate recycling...
Damn song was over 6mins long & (a) I didn't have enough footage (b) at some point, everyone would've stopped somewhere midway & said, "That's just too much".​


Shane said:


> Good use of the virticle limit clip at the start, lol, what the original film makers intended as a cheap shot against Pak army, you turned it into a poke in the eyes for the Indians, lol.


Ahhh, you picked up on it. Good stuff. I was wondering if anyone would notice that scene from a _19 Year_ old film.


uzbi aka viper said:


> i wished for saab awac releasing flares ,should be included in this video, as they played a very crucial role, anyways very rejuvenating video.


Well, this was just a video on the PAK Armed Forces in general. There are a couple of videos on the events of _27th Feb_ that I edited & you can find SAAB AWACS there...(with flares) .
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/page-2

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## Shane

Trailer23 said:


> Ahhh, you picked up on it. Good stuff. I was wondering if anyone would notice that scene from a _19 Year_ old film.


Hahaha, I know I'm getting old but you just had to write how old the movie is, lol. Really seemed like not too long ago. 
You really do some hardwork and it shows in your videos. Good luck.


----------



## Liquidmetal

Trailer23 said:


> Thanx guys. Yep, that's the idea, but lack of footage prevents me from coming up with new material. Hate recycling...
> Damn song was over 6mins long & (a) I didn't have enough footage (b) at some point, everyone would've stopped somewhere midway & said, "That's just too much".​
> Ahhh, you picked up on it. Good stuff. I was wondering if anyone would notice that scene from a _19 Year_ old film.
> 
> Well, this was just a video on the PAK Armed Forces in general. There are a couple of videos on the events of _27th Feb_ that I edited & you can find SAAB AWACS there...(with flares) .
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-air-force-vids-edited-on-adobe-premiere.585383/page-2


Please, please do one to the track of Mein Pakistan Hoon. The current one on youtube is poor quality video, though I love that song and love some of story build up but with your editing and eye for quality, I am sure you can make it much better, pretty please. 

This is the video I am referring to:

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## Pakistani Fighter

He is talking about whole world saw both jets shot down on ground but we were able to see only Mig 21 crash. Where was the SU 30 wreckage. What 'World' waa he talking about? 
@Dubious @Khafee @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer @Maarkhoor @waz

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## Imran Khan

Yehi baat to 1 lakh ki hai


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Imran Khan said:


> Yehi baat to 1 lakh ki hai


But yr woh doosra wreckage jo poori dunya ne dekha uski picture waghera kahan hai?


----------



## Goenitz

'World' means foreign agencies.... ?


----------



## Imran Khan

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> But yr woh doosra wreckage jo poori dunya ne dekha uski picture waghera kahan hai?


Main khud bhi wohi dhundh raha hoon


----------



## waz

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> He is talking about whole world saw both jets shot down on ground but we were able to see only Mig 21 crash. Where was the SU 30 wreckage. What 'World' waa he talking about?
> @Dubious @Khafee @Bilal Khan 777 @Windjammer @Maarkhoor @waz



Hi, can this please be discussed on the many threads for it, rather than opening a new one. Thanks.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

waz said:


> Hi, can this please be discussed on the many threads for it, rather than opening a new one. Thanks.


Actually I wanted to ask a Question when he said the 'World'. Which world saw second jet shot down


----------



## ZAC1

waz said:


> Hi, can this please be discussed on the many threads for it, rather than opening a new one. Thanks.


world doesnt mean ordinary peoples... world powers have satellites in place n they the real picture...


----------



## waz

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Actually I wanted to ask a Question when he said the 'World'. Which world saw second jet shot down



No worries, people will respond here.


----------



## loanranger

Somebody debunk this guy my blood is boiling.I cant believe a seemingly educated twat can still believe the f16 downing based on a few vapour trails. Although he is trying to be logical there are gaping double standards in his narrative like why cant the smoke trails be of an su30. Oh and at the end of the video he alao manages to kill Nouman and Hassan....nobel prize is in order for einstien here !


----------



## SQ8

loanranger said:


> Somebody debunk this guy my blood is boiling.I cant believe a seemingly educated twat can still believe the f16 downing based on a few vapour trails. Although he is trying to be logical there are gaping double standards in his narrative like why cant the smoke trails be of an su30. Oh and at the end of the video he alao manages to kill Nouman and Hassan....nobel prize is in order for einstien here !


Why would you debunk a hallucination?



airomerix said:


> The recorded data by ACMI onboard the aircraft which shot down Su-30 shows nothing significant since it was a BVR kill.


They are expecting this

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## Zulfiqar

Don't Know about their role in present skirmish but a nice pushto patch for 26 sq pesh.







What it means is bandooq Mera qanoon hai.

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## Trailer23

loanranger said:


> ....nobel prize is in order for einstien here !


Why stop there? Lets just make him the next PM of India*.

When I saw this charming _interpretation_ for a dogfight, I wanted to throw up, but then no one would've noticed it with the amount b.s. surrounding it.

His narrative has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese (not something to be confused with Sunny Leone).

*If this jerkoff is successful in selling this bull, and gets countless hits by frustrated Indians - than yeah, he should be the perfect candidate for a PM position.

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## loanranger

Oscar said:


> Why would you debunk a hallucination?


Yes you are right. I have resigned to the fact that they are lying to make themselves feel good. I hope their armed forces drown with the same ignorance as their public. Make things a bit easier for us but they wont go withought a fight but IA we will prevail as long as we stand for what is right.



Trailer23 said:


> Why stop there? Lets just make him the next PM of India*.
> 
> When I saw this charming _interpretation_ for a dogfight, I wanted to throw up, but then no one would've noticed it with the amount b.s. surrounding it.
> 
> His narrative has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese (not something to be confused with Sunny Leone).
> 
> *If this jerkoff is successful in selling this bull, and gets countless hits by frustrated Indians - than yeah, he should be the perfect candidate for a PM position.


Im sorry sir who is this sunny you speak of, seems quite the piece....
Anyways on a serious note more facts should come out regarding the Su30 after the indian elections. Hopefully give you some prime footage to work on....Mirage SOW bombing footage would be a sight to behold....BVR kill footage would be like an arcade game wont get to see missiles hitting the plane cool never the less.....
Such oppurtunities come only once a century....

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## Falcon26

loanranger said:


> Somebody debunk this guy my blood is boiling.I cant believe a seemingly educated twat can still believe the f16 downing based on a few vapour trails. Although he is trying to be logical there are gaping double standards in his narrative like why cant the smoke trails be of an su30. Oh and at the end of the video he alao manages to kill Nouman and Hassan....nobel prize is in order for einstien here !



Your country has the MiG-21 black box, it has AWACS, radar and other electronic evidence to shut this conspiracy theory once and for all. But your DG ISPR keeps holding useless press conferences talking about “ we are peace loving country, we don’t want to retaliate” and other pointless blubberings. Don’t blame the Indians for clinching to these debunked claims. It’s all they have.

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## Raider 21

Zulfiqar said:


> Don't Know about their role in present skirmish but a nice pushto patch for 26 sq pesh.
> 
> View attachment 557031
> 
> 
> What it means is bandooq Mera qanoon hai.


That is an awesome patch. Spent time with them at the beginning of the year. Good squadron ran by a very experienced OC from the Viper side.


----------



## HawkEye27




----------



## NA71

tipu_ssw said:


> View attachment 557115


Source of this piece of info.


----------



## ziaulislam

tipu_ssw said:


> View attachment 557115


at this fall location many kashmiri are quoted saying that a jet has fallen near by..this was on zee news






now whether the eye witness are referring to same crash site which seems to be obivulsy a copper but why "confirm jet" statement..very weird

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## untitled

ziaulislam said:


> at this fall location many kashmiri are quoted saying that a jet has fallen near by..this was on zee news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now whether the eye witness are referring to same crash site which seems to be obivulsy a copper but why "confirm jet" statement..very weird


I believe the MiG21 crashed in Pakistan before this chopper went down. The Indian media didn't have footage of the MiG crash. That is why they settled for the chopper crash site. Things were not so different in the Pakistani media where all sorts of crashes from the past were being passed off as Indian jets shot down

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## ziaulislam

member.exe said:


> I believe the MiG21 crashed in Pakistan before this chopper went down. The Indian media didn't have footage of the MiG crash. That is why they settled for the chopper crash site. Things were not so different in the Pakistani media where all sorts of crashes from the past were being passed off as Indian jets shot down


*i am referring to ground witness stating a jet crashed...*


----------



## usman012

Trailer23 said:


> Why stop there? Lets just make him the next PM of India*.
> 
> When I saw this charming _interpretation_ for a dogfight, I wanted to throw up, but then no one would've noticed it with the amount b.s. surrounding it.
> 
> His narrative has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese (not something to be confused with Sunny Leone).
> 
> *If this jerkoff is successful in selling this bull, and gets countless hits by frustrated Indians - than yeah, he should be the perfect candidate for a PM position.



Indians are frustrated .


----------



## maverick1977

airomerix said:


> The recorded data by ACMI onboard the aircraft which shot down Su-30 shows nothing significant since it was a BVR kill.


Just imagine if Bhartis had shot down a F16 for real, their media and army would’ve indeed gone bonkers with joy and hysteria


----------



## airomerix

maverick1977 said:


> Just imagine if Bhartis had shot down a F16 for real, their media and army would’ve indeed gone bonkers with joy and hysteria



Obviously. US would be the first to leak that there is an F-16 missing. Followed by a massive order of F-21/F-18s. But it didnt happen.


----------



## NA71

The person also said "two blasts heard" ...could be multiple AIM120 hit on same target????????


----------



## untitled

ziaulislam said:


> *i am referring to ground witness stating a jet crashed...*


The witness said that it is a "confirmed jet" with a crew of 3. Three seater MiG21? Later the reporter says that the 3rd person is a civilian which is consistent with the reports of the Mi17 going down

If you recall on 27th there were reports of a MiG21 downed and it was accompanied by images of this helicopter crash. Indians were jumping up and down exclaiming hey that is helicopter not a MiG21.

It is obvious now that the IAF was trying to hide the Su30 downing while acknowledging the MiG21 crash at the same time trying to pass it (MiG21) off as a two seater. And the only crash site images that were circulating on social/electronic media were of this Mi17 crash.


----------



## manga




----------



## Apocalypse

manga said:


>



This man just doesn't stop touching himself

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## untitled

Burāq OI said:


> This man just doesn't.....


You really believe an "analysis" done by an Indian on recent events is worth your time?

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## Myth_buster_1

Burāq OI said:


> This man just doesn't stop touching himself



he is only licking his wounds.

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## SIPRA

member.exe said:


> The witness said that it is a "confirmed jet" with a crew of 3. Three seater MiG21? Later the reporter says that the 3rd person is a civilian which is consistent with the reports of the Mi17 going down
> 
> If you recall on 27th there were reports of a MiG21 downed and it was accompanied by images of this helicopter crash. Indians were jumping up and down exclaiming hey that is helicopter not a MiG21.
> 
> It is obvious now that the IAF was trying to hide the Su30 downing while acknowledging the MiG21 crash at the same time trying to pass it (MiG21) off as a two seater. And the only crash site images that were circulating on social/electronic media were of this Mi17 crash.



Just for information.

On February 27, at about 1100 (IST), all the Indian TV channels aired the news, also showing the video, that an IAF airplane has crashed, near Budgam, due to some technical snag. All the eyewitnesses and field reporters reported it to be airplane. Some even mentioned it to be Mig or Mig-21. Number of reported deaths at that time varied from 2 to 3, including 1 civilian. 1 or 2 eyewitness were those who claimed to see it, while falling.

Then, one and a half hour later, at about 1230 (IST), all these channels started reporting that the earlier report was wrong and it is not an airplane, but an IAF copter MI-17, crashed due to technical fault. Alongside, they reported the causality figure of 6 IAF personnel and 1 civilian.

This whole episode has remained a mystery for me.

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## Khanivore

manga said:


>


Hocus-pocus. Nothing ever makes sense from the likes of these so called "experts", "analysts". They're all part of the Indian regime's propaganda apparatus.

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## untitled

RIWWIR said:


> This whole episode has remained a mystery for me.


The episode is still a mystery. You can attribute it too the Indian government not giving the complete story to Indian journalists. Eyewitnesses and reporters who can't tell an Mi17 from a MiG21. Later on we all saw on youtube videos were even the support crew onboard the Mi17 were referred to as "pilots". So there are a variety of factors at play here, some intentional and some unintentional that have led to this "confusion"

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## ziaulislam

manga said:


>


Its so difficult to listen to him..its like vomiting



RIWWIR said:


> Just for information.
> 
> On February 27, at about 1100 (IST), all the Indian TV channels aired the news, also showing the video, that an IAF airplane has crashed, near Budgam, due to some technical snag. All the eyewitnesses and field reporters reported it to be airplane. Some even mentioned it to be Mig or Mig-21. Number of reported deaths at that time varied from 2 to 3, including 1 civilian. 1 or 2 eyewitness were those who claimed to see it, while falling.
> 
> Then, one and a half hour later, at about 1230 (IST), all these channels started reporting that the earlier report was wrong and it is not an airplane, but an IAF copter MI-17, crashed due to technical fault. Alongside, they reported the causality figure of 6 IAF personnel and 1 civilian.
> 
> This whole episode has remained a mystery for me.


There were able to censor any and all images unfortunately nothing made it out

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## loanranger

Falcon26 said:


> Your country has the MiG-21 black box, it has AWACS, radar and other electronic evidence to shut this conspiracy theory once and for all. But your DG ISPR keeps holding useless press conferences talking about “ we are peace loving country, we don’t want to retaliate” and other pointless blubberings. Don’t blame the Indians for clinching to these debunked claims. It’s all they have.


Sir we showed them four missile sabat (whole) unexploded. They conviniently ignore that point...Also even if we show Awacs data or something elsw the people here on PDF will accept it but the average indian will not so whats the point.They will still find some irrational flaw or even say the data is fabricated....the mig21 blackbox is encrypted even if we extract data it wont be in a form to show the public.

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## airomerix

Not a wise thing to disclose such movements.


----------



## NA71

ya i am sorry ...but intense buzzing sound

on twitter some one saying some SU formation has been detected with IN movements.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1124028883752378380


----------



## Evora

Excellently revealed truth and facts with evidence regarding 27th feb skirmish by DFRlabs.

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## Microsoft

NA71 said:


> multiple media reports say India has made Bhuj Air Base operational in recent days and intense air activities near IB have been detected including SUs . Karachi is in their direct threat vector.



Where are these multiple media reports? If all you have are tweets then stop spreading hysteria.

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## Smoke

Microsoft said:


> Where are these multiple media reports? If all you have are tweets then stop spreading hysteria.



Probably because of the cyclone.


----------



## HawkEye27

Air Warriors of Quaid

Just listen how correct was Quaid back then and also relevance of his speech then.

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## TheTallGuy

tipu_ssw said:


> Air Warriors of Quaid
> 
> Just listen how correct was Quaid back then and also relevance of his speech then.



Amazing! i am at loss of words ...


----------



## usman012

manga said:


>


This uncle must look in his own house instead of blaming everything on Pakistan .


----------



## crankthatskunk

Trailer23 said:


> Why stop there? Lets just make him the next PM of India*.
> 
> When I saw this charming _interpretation_ for a dogfight, I wanted to throw up, but then no one would've noticed it with the amount b.s. surrounding it.
> 
> His narrative has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese (not something to be confused with Sunny Leone).
> 
> *If this jerkoff is successful in selling this bull, and gets countless hits by frustrated Indians - than yeah, he should be the perfect candidate for a PM position.



Why Pakistanis have not shown this video poster Indians true face on youtube!! 
Swiss Cheese is tasty. Sunny Leone is good filling all of her holes with something she considers enjoyable. 
His holes are like of the one's Bipin had after 27th. Non stop wetting and dirtying of his dippers.

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## Zulfiqar

AsianUnion said:


> *Pakistan ‘moves fighter jets’ amid simmering cross-border tensions with India*
> *
> PAKISTAN has moved some of its fleet of F-16 fighter jets amid fears they could be targeted in possible airstrikes by India.*
> 
> By SIMON OSBORNE
> 
> PUBLISHED: 14:53, Sun, May 19, 2019 | UPDATED: 14:58, Sun, May 19, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Pakistan Air Force F16 fighter jet (Image: GETTY)
> Sources said Pakistan Air Force (PAF) commanders were still worried about possible attacks more than two months after an Indian Air Force (IAF) counter-terror strike on Pakistan’s Balakot region. The sources told India’s Economic Times newspaper the PAF F-16s had been flown from their home bases in Punjab province an redeployed across satellite airbases to avoid major losses in possible strikes from India.
> 
> *RELATED ARTICLES*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SHOCK AND AWE: India buys 460 Russian tanks - alarm bells ring
> 
> 
> 
> India vs Pakistan: Why do India and Pakistan clash?
> They said the PAF “has been at forward locations all along the Line of Control and the International Border after the Balakot strikes and its failure to counter India”.
> 
> The Pakistan Army has also maintained a heavy deployment of tanks and armoured regiments along Sialkot region close to Jammu region and Indian forces are keeping a close watch on their activities there.
> 
> India has also made precautionary deployments against these armoured formations on its side of the borders including its own advanced armoured forces.
> 
> 
> The latest move comes amid simmering tensions between Islamabad and New Delhi which boiled over on February 14 when at least 40 Indian security personnel were killed in a terrorist attack in Pulwama, India.
> 
> *India Pakistan: Kashmir issue cannot keep boiling says PM Khan*
> 
> Responsibility for the deadly attacks was claimed by the Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terrorist group.
> 
> Indian officials accused Islamabad of harbouring and sponsoring the Islamist extremists and launched retaliatory airstrikes on alleged terror infrastructure targets in Pakistani territory.
> 
> Pakistan, which denied the Indian allegations, responded with tit-for-tat raids and said it downed two IAF fighter jets in aerial clashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan has redeployed some of its F16 fighter jet (Image: GETTY)
> An Indian pilot who ejected was released a few days later in what Islamabad called a “peace gesture”.
> 
> India has confirmed the loss of only one of its warplanes and suggested a MiG-21 Bison jet was struck after it had shot down a Pakistani F-16. The PAF denies losing any of its fighter jets.
> 
> Both sides remain on high alert after the February clashes.
> 
> UK Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...-conflict-pakistan-air-force-f16-fighter-jets



What kind of crap is this?

Any competent airforce will disperse their assets in war time to smaller bases that are activated only during escalations/war.

This is to ensure that they could respond timely to any threat (see distance of Sargodha from different border regions) and cover all the airspace while increasing loiter time on station.

No one would park 40+ F-16s in a single base during escalations.

Asset disbursal is key to mobility apart from survivability.


----------



## Reichsmarschall

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.


So it turns out it was other way around but never mind 
I love how " SU 30 will shot down falcon even before falcon see Sukhoi" boys have gone AWOL since 27th Feb

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## Reichsmarschall

enquencher said:


> Dnt wori more is coming..keep ur jets in bunkers to prevent escalation


3 months and counting still waiting for IAF come



The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> This is how pakistan responded. "India only killed some trees" we can grow it again , so no worries ".
> And most of Pakistanis believing in their lies for face saving bcz they don't have capabilities to counter strike.
> This is how it is gonna end " Pulwama".


No it ended with 2 indian jets downed by PAF and 1 chopper wasted in fratricide

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## Ali_Baba

The big RCS of the Su30MKI is a problem that the IAF simply cannot fix and it will always be exposed to new variants of longer range AAM's because of its RCS will attract missiles at ever longer ranges as new AAMs are developed. The engagement of the 27th Feb 2019 showed that the era of WVR has for the time being taken the back seat, and the focus is on tactics and longer range AAM's and electronic counter measures.

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## araz

Ali_Baba said:


> . The engagement of the 27th Feb 2019 showed that the era of WVR has for the time being taken the back seat, and the focus is on tactics and longer range AAM's and electronic counter measures.



I think this is the wrong conclusion. HOBS WVRs with HMDSshould be the next challange which PAF should take on. It is a deficiency in the PAF armamentarium. However it maybe that till this is fulfilled PAF may play to its strength in BVR and engage in BVR and run back to base to reload.
A

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## Army research

araz said:


> I think this is the wrong conclusion. HOBS WVRs with HMDSshould be the next challange which PAF should take on. It is a deficiency in the PAF armamentarium. However it maybe that till this is fulfilled PAF may play to its strength in BVR and engage in BVR and run back to base to reload.
> A


In places like Kashmir long range BVR can be avoided by simply terrain masking behind a hill or mountain within 5-15 seconds, here as we just saw with the M21 , it was a close quarter fight , hobs missile are required, BVR is not 100% reliable id say 80% but a extreme G pulling hobs is at least 98% reliable

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## airomerix

Talking of WVR fight, Pakistan is using AIM-9M's latest tranche which is just a model before X series. Very capable. Can distinguish between flares and actual aircraft under circumstances.

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## Army research

airomerix said:


> Talking of WVR fight, Pakistan is using AIM-9M's latest tranche which is just a model before X series. Very capable. Can distinguish between flares and actual aircraft under circumstances.


Not on thunders though , the South African option by denel would be good for thunders or preferably , local hobs in the next 5 years


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## airomerix

Army research said:


> Not on thunders though , the South African option by denel would be good for thunders or preferably , local hobs in the next 5 years


We managed to integrate AIM-9 lima and papa versions on F-7s. God willing, we will integrate mike too on thunder. Who knows.

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## M.SAAD

airomerix said:


> Talking of WVR fight, Pakistan is using AIM-9M's latest tranche which is just a model before X series. Very capable. Can distinguish between flares and actual aircraft under circumstances.






Bro are you sure that we downed their Su30 on Feb 27 or did they manage to evade the AMRAAM's?? How have they been able to hide the wreckage from their media?


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## Zulfiqar

airomerix said:


> We managed to integrate AIM-9 lima and papa versions on F-7s. God willing, we will integrate mike too on thunder. Who knows.



But we have like 200 of the M versions. Hardly enough to cover full inventory of F-16s and the JF-17s at the same time.

We need a long term solution for JF-17s in form of a Chinese/SA/Brazilian solution.


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## airomerix

Zulfiqar said:


> But we have like 200 of the M versions. Hardly enough to cover full inventory of F-16s and the JF-17s at the same time.
> 
> We need a long term solution for JF-17s in form of a Chinese/SA/Brazilian solution.



We have more.

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## MastanKhan

Ali_Baba said:


> The big RCS of the Su30MKI is a problem that the IAF simply cannot fix and it will always be exposed to new variants of longer range AAM's because of its RCS will attract missiles at ever longer ranges as new AAMs are developed. The engagement of the 27th Feb 2019 showed that the era of WVR has for the time being taken the back seat, and the focus is on tactics and longer range AAM's and electronic counter measures.



Hi,

The BVR concept was confirmed for pakistani hardliners only who were stuck with their wvr mentality---.

The top air force of the world had already changed directions 15 plus years ago---maybe 25 years ago---.

Did they still do wvr and gun fight training---yes they did---to the max---but that was only to show off and to confuse the enemy or any one else who wanted to stay confused---.

BVR combat it is and BVR it will stay---inferior aircraft maybe thrown into the arena to be slaughtered on a whim that they might get lucky and shoot a superior aircraft in wvr by chance---.

The 5th gen will fight from their position of strength---ie---BVR---.

The 4th and 4.5 gen may still engage rarely depending on the circumstances---.

All wvr attempts---ie all attempts to get within visual range combat would be suicidal---.

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## Arsalan 345

this conflict is not over.kindly look at air traffic.weird air traffic in pakistani airspace on yesterday morning.india might attack again.another engagement not far away.

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## Dazzler

airomerix said:


> Talking of WVR fight, Pakistan is using AIM-9M's latest tranche which is just a model before X series. Very capable. Can distinguish between flares and actual aircraft under circumstances.



M8/9 version.


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## syed_yusuf

If su30 is so bad to survive air battle then why China continue to build it's variants

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## Flight of falcon

Indians blink..... open their entire airspace. Expecting Pakistan to reciprocate... looks like their losses are getting to unbearable level. 

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ia...for-overflying-again/articleshow/69600819.cms

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## jaybird

syed_yusuf said:


> If su30 is so bad to survive air battle then why China continue to build it's variants




It's like comparing F/A-18 A/B to F/A-18 E/F or F-16A/B to later variants like F-16 block 60 /V. All SU-30s are not the same other than in names only. Almost everything is different like radar, mission computer and electronic warfare suite and types missiles it can carry. 

Not even the inside air frame structure and material used are the same from variant to variant with China's own old Su-30MKK and new built J-16 etc. It's totally different animal comparing Indian Su-30 to Chinese version or Russian's own version.

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## Point 5310

Flight of falcon said:


> Indians blink..... open their entire airspace. Expecting Pakistan to reciprocate... looks like their losses are getting to unbearable level.
> 
> https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ia...for-overflying-again/articleshow/69600819.cms


Lol epic fail.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...ing-record-high-profits.621037/#post-11505208

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## Armchair

airomerix said:


> We have more.


Problem is, USAF attempt to use AAM against Russian-made Syrian aircraft, with upgraded flares, showed that the Sidewinder was unable to hit the target. Later they had to finish the job with an AMRAAM.



jaybird said:


> It's like comparing F/A-18 A/B to F/A-18 E/F or F-16A/B to later variants like F-16 block 60 /V. All SU-30s are not the same other than in names only. Almost everything is different like radar, mission computer and electronic warfare suite and types missiles it can carry.
> 
> Not even the inside air frame structure and material used are the same from variant to variant with China's own old Su-30MKK and new built J-16 etc. It's totally different animal comparing Indian Su-30 to Chinese version or Russian's own version.



Basically the Indians went for an all rounder, and one which has deficiencies in its FBW. The wing loading is higher than most contemporary rivals. But the achille's heal is probably the BVR they have on it, the long runway needed, and the maintenance nightmare it brings.

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## Arsalan 345

Flight of falcon said:


> Indians blink..... open their entire airspace. Expecting Pakistan to reciprocate... looks like their losses are getting to unbearable level.
> 
> https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ia...for-overflying-again/articleshow/69600819.cms



They opened their airspace to challenge paf.they have already done something.since yesterday,there is lots of traffic.more awacs more tankers and more discussions about pakistan.


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## Flight of falcon

Arsalan 345 said:


> They opened their airspace to challenge paf.they have already done something.since yesterday,there is lots of traffic.more awacs more tankers and more discussions about pakistan.



I was referring to their civilian airliners losses due to detour over the sea. I have a feeling that they will do something stupid sooner than later. We must be prepared.

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## airomerix

M.SAAD said:


> Bro are you sure that we downed their Su30 on Feb 27 or did they manage to evade the AMRAAM's?? How have they been able to hide the wreckage from their media?



Only 2 missiles were fired. None of the AMRAAM's were 'dodged' 

The aircraft fell in a dam somewhere near the cantonment area. Hence the secrecy.

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## SIPRA

Flight of falcon said:


> I was referring to their civilian airliners losses due to detour over the sea. I have a feeling that they will do something stupid sooner than later. We must be prepared.



No doubt. There are many indications that India will do some mischief.


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## airomerix

RIWWIR said:


> No doubt. There are many indications that India will do some mischief.



Recently some of their fighters were hiding behind a Boeing 737 going up north. lol. 

Thunders were on CAP. We already had a hunch about that commercial jet since it requested a route closer to Pakistan.

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## Vortex

Flight of falcon said:


> I was referring to their civilian airliners losses due to detour over the sea. I have a feeling that they will do something stupid sooner than later. We must be prepared.





RIWWIR said:


> No doubt. There are many indications that India will do some mischief.



They could exploit our Eid days.

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## SIPRA

Vortex said:


> They could exploit our Eid days.



It could as well be other way round. If we succeed in screwing them again, they may well enlighten our Eid.

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## airomerix

RIWWIR said:


> It could as well be other way round. If we succeed in screwing them again, they may well enlighten our Eid.



PAF's first kill was also on Eid day.

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## SIPRA

airomerix said:


> PAF's first kill was also on Eid day.



When it was. Just for my information.


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## untitled

RIWWIR said:


> When it was. Just for my information.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-sabre-draws-first-blood.603711/

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## SIPRA

member.exe said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-sabre-draws-first-blood.603711/



Thanks.

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## Mace

airomerix said:


> Only 2 missiles were fired. None of the AMRAAM's were 'dodged'
> 
> The aircraft fell in a dam somewhere near the cantonment area. Hence the secrecy.



You broke the hearts of all the JF17 fans with your unsubstantiated bullsh*t


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## airomerix

Mace said:


> You broke the hearts of all the JF17 fans with your unsubstantiated bullsh*t



I don't care. 

As long as our AMRAAMs are breaking migs and Su's apart all is well.


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## Mace

airomerix said:


> I don't care.
> 
> As long as our AMRAAMs are breaking migs and Su's apart all is well.



You missed my calling your post unsubstantiated bullsh*t


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## airomerix

Mace said:


> You missed my calling your post unsubstantiated bullsh*t


It would break your heart if I said anything. 

BTW are your guys at 51 sqn missing a jet? Just checking. 

Ask the guys at 221 sqn too.

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## Point 5310

airomerix said:


> Only 2 missiles were fired. None of the AMRAAM's were 'dodged'
> 
> The aircraft fell in a dam somewhere near the cantonment area. Hence the secrecy.


Lol.
There are no dams with catchment areas or reservoirs in Kashmir.
More importantly there are no dams in Rajouri or Nowshera or Reasi or Poonch where all the encounters happened on 27th.


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## Mace

airomerix said:


> It would break your heart if I said anything.
> 
> BTW are your guys at 51 sqn missing a jet? Just checking.
> 
> Ask the guys at 221 sqn too.



Stop trying too hard 

Your posts still bullsh*t


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## airomerix

Mace said:


> Stop trying too hard
> 
> Your posts still bullsh*t



Stop crying. I'd throw you Abhinandan's helmet if I could. 



Point 5310 said:


> Lol.
> There are no dams with catchment areas or reservoirs in Kashmir.
> More importantly there are no dams in Rajouri or Nowshera or Reasi or Poonch where all the encounters happened on 27th.


There are plenty of reservoirs which connect to river Jhelum. 

See this is why Kashmir is ours. We know it better then you do.

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## Imran Khan

nice to see indians in this thread


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## SIPRA

Point 5310 said:


> There are no dams with catchment areas or reservoirs in Kashmir.



I am not contesting your post. Just correcting you, on a technical issue. Ask any civil or water resources engineer. Every dam, whether small, medium or large, has a catchment area as well as a reservoir. Catchment area is the area, from which precipitation, whether rainfall or snow melt, flows into a river, lake, or reservoir.


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## airomerix

Imran Khan said:


> nice to see indians in this thread



Idiot still doesn't know Baba dam exists right beside Srinagar Cantt.

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## Point 5310

airomerix said:


> There are plenty of reservoirs which connect to river Jhelum.
> 
> See this is why Kashmir is ours. We know it better then you do.


Another fail.
No Su-30 MKI sorties came close to Kashmir valley that day.
Only sorties by them were over Jammu division.


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## Imran Khan

airomerix said:


> Idiot still doesn't know Baba dam exists right beside Srinagar Cantt.


kashmir nhi jaaty ye log waha aatnk waadi goli marty hain inko


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## Point 5310

Imran Khan said:


> kashmir nhi jaaty ye log waha aatnk waadi goli marty hain inko


More like we shoot aatbk wadi and their friends with impunity in kashmir.


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## airomerix

Point 5310 said:


> Another fail.
> No Su-30 MKI sorties came close to Kashmir valley that day.
> Only sorties by them were over Jammu division.



Explain this first. 



Point 5310 said:


> Lol.
> There are *no dams with catchment areas or reservoirs in Kashmir.*
> More importantly there are no dams in Rajouri or Nowshera or Reasi or Poonch where all the encounters happened on 27th.


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## Point 5310

airomerix said:


> Explain this first.


That is 100% right.
Artificial Reservoirs do not exist in Kashmir since as per NHPC definition a reservoir must be atleast 5000 acres.


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## airomerix

Point 5310 said:


> That is 100% right.
> Artificial Reservoirs do not exist in Kashmir since as per NHPC definition a reservoir must be atleast 5000 acres.



Lol get a hike! Su pilots didn't need an artificial reservoir to choke themselves. Natural ones did the work nicely.

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## denel

Please if you are so anxious on this stupid thread going. Anyone is welcome to share a few minutes inside the cage at my place with this cute cheetah. At least this BS and gloating diahorea will halt.

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## Vortex

RIWWIR said:


> It could as well be other way round. If we succeed in screwing them again, they may well enlighten our Eid.



I was only speculating about when they could launch an attack. But yes insha’Allah we will make their nose bloody again.

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## Point 5310

airomerix said:


> Lol get a hike! Su pilots didn't need an artificial reservoir to choke themselves. Natural ones did the work nicely.


Natural reservoirs are all surounded by densely pppualted villages.
Even a bird falling will get noticed.


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## Sidacca

Point 5310 said:


> That is 100% right.
> Artificial Reservoirs do not exist in Kashmir since as per NHPC definition a reservoir must be atleast 5000 acres.


Lolz you clearly lost the argument now you started us teaching reservoirs etc....


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## Keysersoze

Imran Khan said:


> nice to see indians in this thread


Yeah they are following the axiom that if you repeat a lie enough someone will believe it. these include..... 
That the incident was an enormous victory. 
That they used super duper secret weapons to bomb somewhere and cause no damage to buildings. 
That no angry civilians have come out demanding justice for killed relatives. 
No cell phone footage of the incident has appeared.
That "dodging AMRAAMS" is a victory when in reality dodging means desperately evading missiles instead of attacking enemy planes.
That the shot down Mig21 was a F16.



It's sad that being manipulated by politicians is so easy in India.......

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## GriffinsRule

airomerix said:


> Only 2 missiles were fired. None of the AMRAAM's were 'dodged'
> 
> The aircraft fell in a dam somewhere near the cantonment area. Hence the secrecy.


Recovery of the said aircraft from a dam would be easily monitored via Satellites or even humint. Which dam are we talking about here btw?


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## airomerix

GriffinsRule said:


> Recovery of the said aircraft from a dam would be easily monitored via Satellites or even humint. Which dam are we talking about here btw?



Not known yet. The absence of documentary evidence means we have nothing yet. 

The only thing that proves Indians lost a flanker are the pieces they presented at the press conference.


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## SIPRA

airomerix said:


> The only thing that proves Indians lost a flanker are the pieces they presented at the press conference.



But we claimed 2 kills, before they showed that piece of AMRAAM. There must have been some evidence with PAF.


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## airomerix

RIWWIR said:


> But we claimed 2 kills, before they showed that piece of AMRAAM. There must have been some evidence with PAF.



The HUD footage shows nothing significant which would prove it to the public, 

However we now have completely decoded the entire flight envelope of the missile to deduce the facts, 

These facts include the range, speed, angle at which the AMRAAMs warhead detonated. That is highly classified information which if leaked will result in Russians/Chinese to work towards making countermeasures for these missiles. US will never allow it to be released. 

*They also say that Foreign Policy magazine had put out that article in Pakistan's favors to stop Pakistani's from this activity of releasing sensitive information of AMRAAM to expose India. But I find this BS. *

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## SIPRA

airomerix said:


> The HUD footage shows nothing significant which would prove it to the public,
> 
> However we now have completely decoded the entire flight envelope of the missile to deduce the facts,
> 
> These facts include the range, speed, angle at which the AMRAAMs warhead detonated. That is highly classified information which if leaked will result in Russians/Chinese to work towards making countermeasures for these missiles. US will never allow it to be released.
> 
> *They also say that Foreign Policy magazine had put out that article in Pakistan's favors to stop Pakistani's from this activity of releasing sensitive information of AMRAAM to expose India. But I find this BS. *



Thanks. Some poster wrote in some other thread that Alan Warnes is going to put an article on this episode in this month. Would that possibly give some more information?


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## airomerix

RIWWIR said:


> Thanks. Some poster wrote in some other thread that Alan Warnes is going to put an article on this episode in this month. Would that possibly give some more information?



I've heard the same. 

However he might not explicitly prove that Su was downed. But he will write about the engagement of F-16s and JF-17s against Indian Su's, migs and Mirage 2000's. He interviewed some of the pilots involved in the engagement. Visited ACE, CCS and few other squadrons.

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## HawkEye27

RIWWIR said:


> Thanks. Some poster wrote in some other thread that Alan Warnes is going to put an article on this episode in this month. Would that possibly give some more information?



He don’t know any thing yet

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## airomerix

tipu_ssw said:


> He don’t know any thing yet
> 
> View attachment 563111



Wow man I do not have his number!


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## Mace

airomerix said:


> I've heard the same.
> 
> However he might not explicitly prove that Su was downed. But he will write about the engagement of F-16s and JF-17s against Indian Su's, migs and Mirage 2000's. He interviewed some of the pilots involved in the engagement. Visited ACE, CCS and few other squadrons.



Does airomerix means hot air? You are full of it aren’t you?

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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> Does airomerix means hot air? You are full of it aren’t you?


You guys missing whol story we have flight data of your mig 21 which was down in Pakistan..if we released that. It will kill your airforce reputation further. Your airforce deep inside is very thankful to Pakistan to cover blunder of iaf...paf as professional force they dont want to humiliate iaf in press why because they already did in battle 27 Feb..

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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> You guys missing whol story we have flight data of your mig 21 which was down in Pakistan..if we released that. It will kill your airforce reputation further. Your airforce deep inside is very thankful to Pakistan to cover blunder of iaf...paf as professional force they dont want to humiliate iaf in press why because they already did in battle 27 Feb..



What claims of IAF you think will be discredited by Mig21 flight data assuming Pak will be able to hack the flight data?


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> What claims of IAF you think will be discredited by Mig21 flight data assuming Pak will be able to hack the flight data?


Where are remains of 5 ARMRAAM that fells in IOK as your mighty IAF Claims, you indiot @Mace

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## Vortex

pakistanipower said:


> Where are remains of 5 ARMRAAM that fells in IOK as your mighty IAF Claims, you indiot @Mace



In his “ace” !

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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> What claims of IAF you think will be discredited by Mig21 flight data assuming Pak will be able to hack the flight data?


You living in tech world where 8 years kids sitting in Karachi Lahore and ralwapindi's streets hacking world top internet security domain in mints..where 10 15 years old gamers win games and make games and make millions.dont you think it is easy job for Pakistanis to break into mig 21 flight data and top of that when a indian pilot was under custody for 48 hours it make job easier.chil budy we do enmity with honor and respect.even we are not lucky to have respectful enemy .but still pakistan has standard when it comes to go into enmity.

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## gangsta_rap

denel said:


> Please if you are so anxious on this stupid thread going. Anyone is welcome to share a few minutes inside the cage at my place with this cute cheetah. At least this BS and gloating diahorea will halt.


----------



## Telescopic Sight

pakistanipower said:


> Where are remains of 5 ARMRAAM that fells in IOK as your mighty IAF Claims, you indiot @Mace



Why this abusive attitude with everyone , even those who are so professional and polite with you? In each and every post you show your lack of education and social skills 
Are you not embarrassing your poor parents with these posts? Or this acceptable in your social background ?
Just repulsive. Yuck.

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## Bossman

airomerix said:


> Only 2 missiles were fired. None of the AMRAAM's were 'dodged'
> 
> The aircraft fell in a dam somewhere near the cantonment area. Hence the secrecy.



Are you suggesting that the other plane fell in the Mangla lake? Mangla is only about 10 miles from where Bison’s wreckage landed. So very much in the area where the air battle took place. It has a cantonment. There is nothing similar on the Indian side in the area.

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## HawkEye27

airomerix said:


> The aircraft fell in a dam somewhere near the cantonment area. Hence the secrecy.

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## Falcon26

airomerix said:


> The HUD footage shows nothing significant which would prove it to the public,
> 
> However we now have completely decoded the entire flight envelope of the missile to deduce the facts,
> 
> These facts include the range, speed, angle at which the AMRAAMs warhead detonated. That is highly classified information which if leaked will result in Russians/Chinese to work towards making countermeasures for these missiles. US will never allow it to be released.
> 
> *They also say that Foreign Policy magazine had put out that article in Pakistan's favors to stop Pakistani's from this activity of releasing sensitive information of AMRAAM to expose India. But I find this BS. *



How about electronic signature? PAF had multiple assets including DA-20s and Erieyes in the air during the engagements. Would these assets not yield evidence to establish the facts?


----------



## SIPRA

Vortex said:


> In his “ace” !



Sir: You are mistaken. He is a small fry. The 5 AMRAAMs were distributed, in accordance with the protocol, for the following auspicious and esteemed @$$es:

1) Narendra Modi
2) Amit Shah
3) Rajnath Singh
4) Bipin Rawat
5) BS Dhanoa

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## airomerix

Falcon26 said:


> How about electronic signature? PAF had multiple assets including DA-20s and Erieyes in the air during the engagements. Would these assets not yield evidence to establish the facts?



Releasing AWAC reports are not safe I reckon. Since it gives away too much. Hence it needs to be doctored at times. 
Also, the sort of fun the world made of IAF's AWACS report. We'd be making the same mistake. .

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## Ultima Thule

Telescopic Sight said:


> Why this abusive attitude with everyone , even those who are so professional and polite with you? In each and every post you show your lack of education and social skills
> Are you not embarrassing your poor parents with these posts? Or this acceptable in your social background ?
> Just repulsive. Yuck.


was i talking to you, you false flag Indiot troll,, if you have a butt hurt, use ice on your butts, its a pain killer to your worless @$$, your worthless trolling ego worth nothing keep blabbering no one takes you seriously here on PDF @Telescopic Sight


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## Mace

airomerix said:


> airomerix means a spear which goes right in your six.



Thought so. Airomerix means lots of hot air and it’s function is to release even more hot air however it can

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## Falcon26

airomerix said:


> Releasing AWAC reports are not safe I reckon. Since it gives away too much. Hence it needs to be doctored at times.
> Also, the sort of fun the world made of IAF's AWACS report. We'd be making the same mistake. .



So no way to share evidence, absence physical wreckage etc, without compromising national security?


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## airomerix

Falcon26 said:


> So no way to share evidence, absence physical wreckage etc, without compromising national security?



We have indirectly confirmed the second kill via following

1) Producing all 4 missiles of Bison
2) AMRAAM debris (produced by Indians)
3) FP report of full F-16 count. 

More than enough the AHQ feels.

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## Telescopic Sight

airomerix said:


> We have indirectly confirmed the second kill via following
> 
> 1) Producing all 4 missiles of Bison
> 2) AMRAAM debris (produced by Indians)
> 3) FP report of full F-16 count.
> 
> More than enough the AHQ feels.



You have made some interesting posts earlier.
But this post lacks any semblance of logic , even common sense. At the most, your post supports the PAF claim of not losing an aircraft. How does it show that IAF lost an aircraft?


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## ziaulislam

Point 5310 said:


> That is 100% right.
> Artificial Reservoirs do not exist in Kashmir since as per NHPC definition a reservoir must be atleast 5000 acres.


WTF..google mangla dam


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## airomerix

Telescopic Sight said:


> You have made some interesting posts earlier.
> But this post lacks any semblance of logic , even common sense. At the most, your post supports the PAF claim of not losing an aircraft. How does it show that IAF lost an aircraft?


Allow me to explain.

Everyone saw more than one parachutes being deployed. 

So it definitely means more than one jet has gone down. 

1) IAF claimed bison shot down a viper, however we produced all 4 missiles of the bison and established no kill credit to IAF. 
2) AMRAAM debris in less than 12 hours of conflict was in New Delhi. Its a no brainer they pulled it out of the debris of their fallen jet. Spanish Air force couldn't find their misfired AMRAAM to date. 
3) FP reported full F-16 count subsequently means we lost no F-16. Hence it is IAF possible IAF lost theirs. (Assuming no JF-17 or Mirage were shot down).

I hope it helps.

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## ziaulislam

syed_yusuf said:


> If su30 is so bad to survive air battle then why China continue to build it's variants


Russians avionics, radars and counter measures And more importantly their AAMs..



Telescopic Sight said:


> You have made some interesting posts earlier.
> But this post lacks any semblance of logic , even common sense. At the most, your post supports the PAF claim of not losing an aircraft. How does it show that IAF lost an aircraft?


Lets settle for mig21 shot down, a enemy pilot paraded and a humiliation of shooting down your own mi17 (during panic & conflict) while same time getting more humiliated by being proven a complete liar by your own strategic patners on f16s claims..

IAF should have claimed they shot down jf17..no idea why they got stuck on f16s..

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## Falcon26

airomerix said:


> We have indirectly confirmed the second kill via following
> 
> 1) Producing all 4 missiles of Bison
> 2) AMRAAM debris (produced by Indians)
> 3) FP report of full F-16 count.
> 
> More than enough the AHQ feels.



How do points 1 & 3 establish that a second bird was killed?

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## Point 5310

That's inside your side.
None our side.


ziaulislam said:


> WTF..google mangla dam


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## Vortex

RIWWIR said:


> Sir: You are mistaken. He is a small fry. The 5 AMRAAMs were distributed, in accordance with the protocol, for the following auspicious and esteemed @$$es:
> 
> 1) Narendra Modi
> 2) Amit Shah
> 3) Rajnath Singh
> 4) Bipin Rawat
> 5) BS Dhanoa



Thanks to correct me. But please no more sir.

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## Point 5310

airomerix said:


> Allow me to explain.
> 
> Everyone saw more than one parachutes being deployed.
> 
> So it definitely means more than one jet has gone down.
> 
> 1) IAF claimed bison shot down a viper, however we produced all 4 missiles of the bison and established no kill credit to IAF.
> 2) AMRAAM debris in less than 12 hours of conflict was in New Delhi. Its a no brainer they pulled it out of the debris of their fallen jet. Spanish Air force couldn't find their misfired AMRAAM to date.
> 3) FP reported full F-16 count subsequently means we lost no F-16. Hence it is IAF possible IAF lost theirs. (Assuming no JF-17 or Mirage were shot down).
> 
> I hope it helps.


1)We were lucky to find AMRAAM because where the AMRAAM crashed was a grazing ground near a village called Mamankote in Chassana tehsil. One shepherd was injured by the explosion. As villagers informed police about the injury and explosion, the visited the site to realise it was an AMRAAM.
Later the police team and injured shepherd were awarded by DGP.

2)The secind chute was actually the brake parachute of MiG 21 which got separated after it was hit in tail.

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## HRK

GriffinsRule said:


> Which dam are we talking about here btw?


it could be Salal DAM (link) in Reasi district as per Indian media reports part of AIM-120C-5 was recovered from one of the village of the same district


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## Point 5310

HRK said:


> it could be Salal DAM (link) in Reasi district as per Indian media reports part of AIM-120C-5 was recovered from one of the village of the same district


Salal has no sort of reservoir.


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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> That is highly classified information which if leaked will result in Russians/Chinese to work towards making countermeasures for these missiles. US will never allow it to be released.


Can't Pakistan secretly give it to China?



airomerix said:


> I've heard the same.
> 
> However he might not explicitly prove that Su was downed. But he will write about the engagement of F-16s and JF-17s against Indian Su's, migs and Mirage 2000's. He interviewed some of the pilots involved in the engagement. Visited ACE, CCS and few other squadrons.


Mirage 2000s were engaged on 27 Feb?


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## maverick1977

airomerix said:


> airomerix means a spear which goes right in your six.
> 
> 
> 
> That's altogether a different diplomatic game.


Bbbuuuhhhhhaaaaa ... in other words, right in his puchwaraaa


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## SIPRA

HRK said:


> it could be Salal DAM (link) in Reasi district as per Indian media reports part of AIM-120C-5 was recovered from one of the village of the same district



Yes. The dam has an upstream reservoir, with an average width of about 0.5 km and a straight upstream length of about 4 km. Depth near the dam shall be of the order of about 100 meters.

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## HawkEye27

RIWWIR said:


> Yes. The dam has an upstream reservoir, with an average width of about 0.5 km and a straight upstream length of about 4 km. Depth near the dam shall be of the order of about 100 meters.



As per report coming online after Indian Elections are over. The piece of AMRAAM was found near Salal Dam in J&K. The same water body is in vicinity of the location where Su30 vanished from the radar. This mean most probably the Su30 damaged by AMRAAM crashed into the water body of Salal Dam.

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## airomerix

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Can't Pakistan secretly give it to China?



Not likely. Serious offense. 




> Mirage 2000s were engaged on 27 Feb?


Yes. They did get airborne from Ambala AFS. 

They were engaged nicely with SD-10 missile locks according to some.



Point 5310 said:


> 1)We were lucky to find AMRAAM because where the AMRAAM crashed was a grazing ground near a village called Mamankote in Chassana tehsil. One shepherd was injured by the explosion. As villagers informed police about the injury and explosion, the visited the site to realise it was an AMRAAM.
> Later the police team and injured shepherd were awarded by DGP.



I'm sure there must be an online link to this celebration at that supposed village. 



> 2)The secind chute was actually the brake parachute of MiG 21 which got separated after it was hit in tail.



Nope. There were two men with a chute.

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## Point 5310

airomerix said:


> Nope. There were two men with a chute.


Nope there was only 1 man and two chute incluing a brake parachute


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## SIPRA

airomerix said:


> Nope. There were two men with a chute.



After reading Kaiser Tufail's article, on another thread, I have started doubting the SU30 kill. May be, PAF made a mistake, in the fog of war. What's now your take? I would be obliged.


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## airomerix

RIWWIR said:


> After reading Kaiser Tufail's article, on another thread, I have started doubting the SU30 kill. May be, PAF made a mistake, in the fog of war. What's now your take? I would be obliged.


No reason to doubt it. 

The kill is there. The electronics show. The AMRAAM detonated at the intended range. 

Trust me it will come out one day.

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## untitled

airomerix said:


> AMRAAM detonated at the intended range.


Su30 is a big aircraft. What are the odds it landed after taking the hit?


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## airomerix

member.exe said:


> Su30 is a big aircraft. What are the odds it landed after taking the hit?



The odds are there. But had IAF pilots managed to land the damaged SU-30. Indians would have published it as a feat. Since landing an aircraft without wings or rudder is quite a task. Only pilots with superior skills are ever able to do that.

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## maverick1977

airomerix said:


> The odds are there. But had IAF pilots managed to land the damaged SU-30. Indians would have published it as a feat. Since landing an aircraft without wings or rudder is quite a task. Only pilots with superior skills are ever able to do that.




Did u talk to the f16 pilot himself who gave this info ?


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## HawkEye27

airomerix said:


> The odds are there. But had IAF pilots managed to land the damaged SU-30. Indians would have published it as a feat. Since landing an aircraft without wings or rudder is quite a task. Only pilots with superior skills are ever able to do that.



True that


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## airomerix

maverick1977 said:


> Did u talk to the f16 pilot himself who gave this info ?



The guys I spoke to are DEAD SURE the Su is down. 

And yes they are fighter pilots who were in the raid.

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## Bratva

airomerix said:


> The guys I spoke to are DEAD SURE the Su is down.
> 
> And yes they are fighter pilots who were in the raid.



What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?

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## maverick1977

This news of SU down will leak out one day or the other by their down pilots, or by ground crew... it’s not possible to keep it hidden for long ..

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## HawkEye27

Bratva said:


> What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?



It must have resurfaced after a while but It never did.


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## The Accountant

Bratva said:


> What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?


The fog is war over now ... we must have confirmation from human intel by now ...


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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> ely. Serious offense.


How will USA know? We did allow China to investigate heli wreckage after OBL raid


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## Bratva

tipu_ssw said:


> It must have resurfaced after a while but It never did.



Indians are claiming the same thing. Aren't they ?

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## HawkEye27

Bratva said:


> Indians are claiming the same thing. Aren't they ?



But we fired a missile whereas WG CDR Abhinandan simply farted


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## The Accountant

Bratva said:


> Indians are claiming the same thing. Aren't they ?


Yes but in case of india no missike was fired ... furthermore we had theater level air superiority so we had radar information from various sources of the complete area whereas Indian aircraft radars were jammed ... mirrages were jammed completely whereas mki and bison left


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## Myth_buster_1

Bratva said:


> What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?



two parachute video belongs to Su-30 kill.


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## airomerix

Bratva said:


> What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?



Good question.

Lets first understand how an AMRAAM behaves and what are the factors which enable us to determine the Su 30 kill.

There is a concept called *'Kill Validity*". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc. 

However the question arises. Can the AD guys be wrong? Yes they can be.

What happened next is; PAF's studied the ACMI and FDR data which reveal the actual speed of the AMRAAM at all stages, altitudes, entry and exit velocity and the g's acting on the missile throughout the flight. This is when something interesting came up.

*Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals*. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)

*The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs. *

Furthermore, it has also been 'heard' the slugs had initially hit the forward section of the Su-30. Disintegrating it from the middle.

Now the final thing.

*The claim that 4-5 AMRAAMs were fired is just absurd because. The pieces of AMRAAM shown at the press conference clearly depicts a detonated missile. AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. Had AMRAAM crashed into a village or whatever their claim is. They would have found its warhead as well. In a bent form or whatever. Its not a pathaka which went bad after landing in India. Its $500,000 missile which has protocols to follow. *

@MODS: Please tag/highlight this post after scrutiny since it answers a lot of questions. Thanks!

@Armchair @Oscar @The Accountant @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Hodor

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## Telescopic Sight

airomerix said:


> Good question...... Thanks!



Literally every word you have written is based on the IAF statement of shooting down an F16 

So you are inadvertently agreeing with the IAF and saying that their method of proving an F-16 shoot down is absolutely valid and reasonable.

Additionally, the AMRAAMS fired at the Sukhois were to keep them at bay , and away from any PAF jets. This is a typical use of missiles, akin to covering fire in the infantry. This is not my original thought, I actually read an USAF pilots article about Feb 27th events. I'll try to find the link.

Think about it. This is the 2nd illogical post of yours that I am replying to, only because you seem capable of far better reasoning.

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## Point 5310

The real hero of that day was the superior Elta 8222WB.
IAF Su-30MKI exercises with RSAF F-16C showed that combination of El8222WB with chaff will absolutely decimate Amraams.
Infact the sheer might of jamming carried out by EL8222WB causes many missiles to go completely haywire.

BTW the warhead of AMRAAM was found intact but was defused by army units on site as it was considered to dangerous to be brought to press conference.


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## Salza

Telescopic Sight said:


> Literally every word you have written is based on the IAF statement of shooting down an F16
> 
> So you are inadvertently agreeing with the IAF and saying that their method of proving an F-16 shoot down is absolutely valid and reasonable.
> 
> Additionally, the AMRAAMS fired at the Sukhois were to keep them at bay , and away from any PAF jets. This is a typical use of missiles, akin to covering fire in the infantry. This is not my original thought, I actually read an USAF pilots article about Feb 27th events. I'll try to find the link.
> 
> Think about it. This is the 2nd illogical post of yours that I am replying to, only because you seem capable of far better reasoning.



Well in your case, all R77s of that downed Mig 21 were recovered, intact, and paraded on TV thus completely debunking of your hilarious claim of F16 shooting. Moreover Americans have also said that all of Pakistani f16s are in tact. End of story as far as Indian claim of F16 is concerned. Moving forward, dont drag f 16 further in your posts. How Su30 was butchered, let's talk about it.. Even I myself want better proofs from our side. You guys even don't have balls to question your incompetant airforce at first place.

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## Telescopic Sight

Salza said:


> Well in your case, all R77s of that downed Mig 21 were recovered, intact, and paraded on TV thus completely debunking of your hilarious claim of F16 shooting. Moreover Americans have also said that all of Pakistani f16s are in tact. End of story as far as Indian claim of F16 is concerned. Moving forward, dont drag f 16 further in your posts. How Su30 was butchered, let's talk about it.. Even I myself want better proofs from our side. You guys even don't have balls to question your incompetant airforce at first place.



Firstly , I hope you enjoyed giving testicular examinations to every Indian / American member in this forum, since you know who is endowed with what !! 

Secondly, each of your statements is not correct. " Intact missiles, Americans have said, Su 30 was lost....." etc.etc.

Google is your friend . I can't spoon feed children who are unable to speak politely or logically. Please study aeromix 's posts for guidance.


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## Salza

Telescopic Sight said:


> Firstly , I hope you enjoyed giving testicular examinations to every Indian / American member in this forum, since you know who is endowed with what !!
> 
> Secondly, each of your statements is not correct. " Intact missiles, Americans have said, Su 30 was lost....." etc.etc.
> 
> Google is your friend . I can't spoon feed children who are unable to speak politely or logically. Please study aeromix 's posts for guidance.



I am using cell phone.. Can't see your nationality... Anyways all I meant was, ispr displayed all r77 bvr missiles in a press conference which were recovered from Indian mig so there is no question of Abhinandan downing a Pakistani f16. Thanks

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## Cuirassier

Point 5310 said:


> The real hero of that day was the superior Elta 8222WB.
> IAF Su-30MKI exercises with RSAF F-16C showed that combination of El8222WB with chaff will absolutely decimate Amraams.
> Infact the sheer might of jamming carried out by EL8222WB causes many missiles to go completely haywire.
> 
> BTW the warhead of AMRAAM was found intact but was defused by army units on site as it was considered to dangerous to be brought to press conference.


Several AMRAAMs? Only 2 fired, 1 hit one didn't. Greater hero would be the distance (considering the engagement was from outside of the missile's NEZ).


----------



## Flight of falcon

Point 5310 said:


> The real hero of that day was the superior Elta 8222WB.
> IAF Su-30MKI exercises with RSAF F-16C showed that combination of El8222WB with chaff will absolutely decimate Amraams.
> Infact the sheer might of jamming carried out by EL8222WB causes many missiles to go completely haywire.
> 
> BTW the warhead of AMRAAM was found intact but was defused by army units on site as it was considered to dangerous to be brought to press conference.




And it was too dangerous to take picture as well and post in the net?????

Come on you Indians are something special when it comes to lying.

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## The Accountant

Point 5310 said:


> The real hero of that day was the superior Elta 8222WB.
> IAF Su-30MKI exercises with RSAF F-16C showed that combination of El8222WB with chaff will absolutely decimate Amraams.
> Infact the sheer might of jamming carried out by EL8222WB causes many missiles to go completely haywire.
> 
> BTW the warhead of AMRAAM was found intact but was defused by army units on site as it was considered to dangerous to be brought to press conference.



Diffused .. really ? Hahaha its a mssile not a cluster bomb that needs diffusion and since when army units gets training on handling air to air missile or for that matter any bomb disposal unit?

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## airomerix

Point 5310 said:


> The real hero of that day was the superior Elta 8222WB.
> IAF Su-30MKI exercises with RSAF F-16C showed that combination of El8222WB with chaff will absolutely decimate Amraams.
> Infact the sheer might of jamming carried out by EL8222WB causes many missiles to go completely haywire.
> 
> BTW the warhead of AMRAAM was found intact but was defused by army units on site as it was considered to dangerous to be brought to press conference.



Utter bull crap. 

Had the war head been found. Its pictures would have been circulating on the media since day 0. 

Its not only about warhead. The fragments presented at press conference clearly show that AMRAAM has exploded.



Telescopic Sight said:


> Literally every word you have written is based on the IAF statement of shooting down an F16



It doesn't mean PAF's logic is wrong. Aerospace platforms work this way. 


> So you are inadvertently agreeing with the IAF and saying that their method of proving an F-16 shoot down is absolutely valid and reasonable.


IAF's version was valid IF any of the missiles went missing on the Mig 21. 


> Additionally, the AMRAAMS fired at the Sukhois were to keep them at bay , and away from any PAF jets. This is a typical use of missiles, akin to covering fire in the infantry. This is not my original thought, I actually read an USAF pilots article about Feb 27th events. I'll try to find the link.



Bull crap. 



> Think about it. This is the 2nd illogical post of yours that I am replying to, only because you seem capable of far better reasoning.



You don't need to reply to me again.

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## 8 pass charlie

when is this thread gonna end??cuz we are never gonna know for sure.520+that's healthy enough


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## The Accountant

Telescopic Sight said:


> Literally every word you have written is based on the IAF statement of shooting down an F16
> 
> So you are inadvertently agreeing with the IAF and saying that their method of proving an F-16 shoot down is absolutely valid and reasonable.
> 
> Additionally, the AMRAAMS fired at the Sukhois were to keep them at bay , and away from any PAF jets. This is a typical use of missiles, akin to covering fire in the infantry. This is not my original thought, I actually read an USAF pilots article about Feb 27th events. I'll try to find the link.
> 
> Think about it. This is the 2nd illogical post of yours that I am replying to, only because you seem capable of far better reasoning.



Are you really American or unbiased ? Indian claim has no weight because of below reasons ...

No claim by abhinandan of shooting anything
All missiles of mig21 found intact
IAF ex pilots on record accepted that 2 planes got shot 

So there is no point arguing what IAF was claiming ...

Regarding Pakistani claim, what Pakiatan is claiming is based on standard method of verifying BVR kill ... other source is offcourse human intelligence which is again nit reliable to you ...

So in short whatever prove we can provide will not be acceptable to you so its better for you to just ignore this ... this is Pakistani forum and we trust our DG ISPR and further details will be released soon ... for us we got 2 birds for you even if it is 1 we will still be winner


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## Point 5310

The Accountant said:


> Diffused .. really ? Hahaha its a mssile not a cluster bomb that needs diffusion and since when army units gets training on handling air to air missile or for that matter any bomb disposal unit?


A2A missile warheads are pretty small so they are easily defused (literallu blown up) by shaped charges.
Very easy to take out



airomerix said:


> Utter bull crap.
> 
> Had the war head been found. Its pictures would have been circulating on the media since day 0.
> 
> Its not only about warhead. The fragments presented at press conference clearly show that AMRAAM has exploded


The army eng unit which went to area was unaware of value of warhead and destroyed it with shaped explosive charges as soon as they stumbled on it.


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## The Accountant

Point 5310 said:


> A2A missile warheads are pretty small so they are easily defused (literallu blown up) by shaped charges.
> Very easy to take out


Blow up a piece warhead that can be used in so many researches and can help in developing AMRAAM class warhead ...

Furthermore blow up the evidence that could save you from international humiliation ... plus not even pictures ?

either your armed forces are nuts or you r making baselss stories ... kindly tell me which conclusion of mine is correct ?



Point 5310 said:


> A2A missile warheads are pretty small so they are easily defused (literallu blown up) by shaped charges.
> Very easy to take out
> 
> 
> The army eng unit which went to area was unaware of value of warhead and destroyed it with shaped explosive charges as soon as they stumbled on it.


 

So you are accepting your armed forces are nuts ...

By the way didnt even took the pics ? As a standard practice bomb disposal squads make videos ...

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## Flight of falcon

The Accountant said:


> Blow up a piece warhead that can be used in so many researches and can help in developing AMRAAM class warhead ...
> 
> Furthermore blow up the evidence that could save you from international humiliation ... plus not even pictures ?
> 
> either your armed forces are nuts or you r making baselss stories ... kindly tell me which conclusion of mine is correct ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are accepting your armed forces are nuts ...
> 
> By the way didnt even took the pics ? As a standard practice bomb disposal squads make videos ...




No bro they are Indians with superior brains. Their lies are so insane that my eyes are permanently rolled in the back of my sockets.... I can’t roll my eyes anymore...

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## TsAr

Point 5310 said:


> A2A missile warheads are pretty small so they are easily defused (literallu blown up) by shaped charges.
> Very easy to take out
> 
> 
> The army eng unit which went to area was unaware of value of warhead and destroyed it with shaped explosive charges as soon as they stumbled on it.


You mean to say that the eng unit was full of douche bags who were not aware what Amraam is and where it came from and what had transpired before they found it. They did not even bother to take pics from record keeping.

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## HRK

The Accountant said:


> Are you really American or unbiased ?


He is false flag Indian

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## Telescopic Sight

HRK said:


> He is false flag Indian


P!ease look back at my posts. I have repeatedly mentioned that I am of Indian origin, having lived in South India for the majority of my life. 
now I am an American citizen. 
if you like , change my flags to anything. Half the Pakistani members here on this forum are sitting in Orangi and calling themself Scotland residents


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## zulu

@airomerix Hazrat aap ny apni post bhi edit kar di regarding pilot maine bhi delete kar di but still rem your all old posts  Does not it is the most irrefutable evidence?


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## Areesh

The Accountant said:


> Blow up a piece warhead that can be used in so many researches and can help in developing AMRAAM class warhead ...
> 
> Furthermore blow up the evidence that could save you from international humiliation ... plus not even pictures ?
> 
> either your armed forces are nuts or you r making baselss stories ... kindly tell me which conclusion of mine is correct ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are accepting your armed forces are nuts ...
> 
> By the way didnt even took the pics ? As a standard practice bomb disposal squads make videos ...



Let me explain it to you

This guy @Point 5310 is a multiple ID rat. He has been humiliated and banned on dozens of other his IDs.

He comes here. Spams forum with random threads meant to glorify Indian hindutva government and its military

He is a Modi and BJP bhakt too so naturally he has very low intellect and IQ. So it is obvious he came with another poor cover up for Indian military and is now getting laughed at for that poor cover up. Just like his previous IDs. In next few days after getting humiliated you would see him in pink colors too

In short he is a degenerate. A swine. A piece of filth from hindutva of India

In short if you are expecting a better and a sane reply with logic and substance from this creature then you are wrong and mistaken at your end

@waz

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## airomerix

zulu said:


> @airomerix Hazrat aap ny apni post bhi edit kar di regarding pilot maine bhi delete kar di but still rem your all old posts  Does not it is the most irrefutable evidence?



Which post exactly? I don't think I edited any post. :/ 

And yes the parade of second pilot is the ultimate thing. But God knows what's up with guys at GHQ.

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## zulu

Current geopolitical situation Sir esp considering so many events or can say possible opportunities in future if play the cards right 


airomerix said:


> Which post exactly? I don't think I edited any post. :/
> 
> And yes the parade of second pilot is the ultimate thing. But God knows what's up with guys at GHQ.

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## CriticalThought

airomerix said:


> Good question.
> 
> Lets first understand how an AMRAAM behaves and what are the factors which enable us to determine the Su 30 kill.
> 
> There is a concept called *'Kill Validity*". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc.
> 
> However the question arises. Can the AD guys be wrong? Yes they can be.
> 
> What happened next is; PAF's studied the ACMI and FDR data which reveal the actual speed of the AMRAAM at all stages, altitudes, entry and exit velocity and the g's acting on the missile throughout the flight. This is when something interesting came up.
> 
> *Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals*. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)
> 
> *The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs. *
> 
> Furthermore, it has also been 'heard' the slugs had initially hit the forward section of the Su-30. Disintegrating it from the middle.
> 
> Now the final thing.
> 
> *The claim that 4-5 AMRAAMs were fired is just absurd because. The pieces of AMRAAM shown at the press conference clearly depicts a detonated missile. AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. Had AMRAAM crashed into a village or whatever their claim is. They would have found its warhead as well. In a bent form or whatever. Its not a pathaka which went bad after landing in India. Its $500,000 missile which has protocols to follow. *
> 
> @MODS: Please tag/highlight this post after scrutiny since it answers a lot of questions. Thanks!
> 
> @Armchair @Oscar @The Accountant @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Hodor



@gambit we would be highly obliged if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.


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## Sidacca

The Accountant said:


> Diffused .. really ? Hahaha its a mssile not a cluster bomb that needs diffusion and since when army units gets training on handling air to air missile or for that matter any bomb disposal unit?


We didn't defuse thier four but they did... Lolz

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## Arsalan 345

Myth_buster_1 said:


> two parachute video belongs to Su-30 kill.



The best thing is to check every video related to this dogfight send check the color of parachutes while zoom in the image.we should do further research if we want to know the truth.


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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> Which post exactly? I don't think I edited any post. :/
> 
> And yes the parade of second pilot is the ultimate thing. But God knows what's up with guys at GHQ.


We don't have the second pilot



airomerix said:


> Good question.
> 
> Lets first understand how an AMRAAM behaves and what are the factors which enable us to determine the Su 30 kill.
> 
> There is a concept called *'Kill Validity*". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc.
> 
> However the question arises. Can the AD guys be wrong? Yes they can be.
> 
> What happened next is; PAF's studied the ACMI and FDR data which reveal the actual speed of the AMRAAM at all stages, altitudes, entry and exit velocity and the g's acting on the missile throughout the flight. This is when something interesting came up.
> 
> *Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals*. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)
> 
> *The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs. *
> 
> Furthermore, it has also been 'heard' the slugs had initially hit the forward section of the Su-30. Disintegrating it from the middle.
> 
> Now the final thing.
> 
> *The claim that 4-5 AMRAAMs were fired is just absurd because. The pieces of AMRAAM shown at the press conference clearly depicts a detonated missile. AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. Had AMRAAM crashed into a village or whatever their claim is. They would have found its warhead as well. In a bent form or whatever. Its not a pathaka which went bad after landing in India. Its $500,000 missile which has protocols to follow. *
> 
> @MODS: Please tag/highlight this post after scrutiny since it answers a lot of questions. Thanks!
> 
> @Armchair @Oscar @The Accountant @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Hodor


Do we have wreckage of AMRAAM which shot down Mig 21?


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## GriffinsRule

Point 5310 said:


> A2A missile warheads are pretty small so they are easily defused (literallu blown up) by shaped charges.
> Very easy to take out
> 
> 
> The army eng unit which went to area was unaware of value of warhead and destroyed it with shaped explosive charges as soon as they stumbled on it.


Prove it


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## Myth_buster_1

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> We don't have the second pilot
> 
> 
> Do we have wreckage of AMRAAM which shot down Mig 21?




mig21 was shot down by either aim9 or pl5 because aim120 does not use fragment warhead and mig21 tail was full of sharpnels


----------



## SQ8

CriticalThought said:


> @gambit we would be highly obliged if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.


https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a379702.pdf

Read up.. good info either way

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## airomerix

Myth_buster_1 said:


> mig21 was shot down by either aim9 or pl5 because aim120 does not use fragment warhead and mig21 tail was full of sharpnels



Both the jets were brought down by AMRAAMs. 

And AMRAAM does use cylindrical slugs/fragment ruptures as mentioned in the report shared by Oscar as well.



Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> We don't have the second pilot



Time will tell.



> Do we have wreckage of AMRAAM which shot down Mig 21?



Absolutely.


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## Falcon26

airomerix said:


> Both the jets were brought down by AMRAAMs.
> 
> And AMRAAM does use cylindrical slugs/fragment ruptures as mentioned in the report shared by Oscar as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely.



It will be fascinating to compare the AMRAAM which shot down Abhi and the one shown by the Indians.


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## khanasifm

Arsalan 345 said:


> The best thing is to check every video related to this dogfight send check the color of parachutes while zoom in the image.we should do further research if we want to know the truth.




3 chutes in total per folks on the ground making video but only one was near by the other were far off

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## NA71

khanasifm said:


> 3 chutes in total per folks on the ground making video but only one was near by the other were far off



The locals were calling them "Indians".... where were the other two pilots ...who captured them?


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## Ahmet Pasha

One question I've had in my mind since this whole drama is why didn't abhinananananananadandandandan(such a mouthfull to try and pronounce) try something like Owen Wilson in Behind Enemy Lines??? 
Did he know he had better odds of going home if he just gave up????


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## HAIDER

CriticalThought said:


> @gambit we would be highly obliged if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.


we have another rtrd pilot @Shabi1 in this forum, if i am not wrong.


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## Myth_buster_1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> One question I've had in my mind since this whole drama is why didn't abhinananananananadandandandan(such a mouthfull to try and pronounce) try something like Owen Wilson in Behind Enemy Lines???
> Did he know he had better odds of going home if he just gave up????



He surrendered like a goat.

The villagers were screaming HANDS UP from 1/4 of a mile away and he raised up his hand while he was p1ssing in his pants.
watch from 0:20 sec

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## Ahmet Pasha

Them hindko swear words. Aaaaahhhh sooo good.

So how did locals know he was even there???

Were the villagers shooting or Army????


Myth_buster_1 said:


> AMRAAM uses HE warhead and carries a
> 
> 
> He surrendered like a goat.
> 
> The villagers were screaming HANDS UP from 1/4 of a mile away and he raised up his hand while he was p1ssing in his pants.
> watch from 0:20 sec



Wese naarey takbeer Allahu Akbar me dehshat bahut hai.


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## Myth_buster_1

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Them hindko swear words. Aaaaahhhh sooo good.
> 
> So how did locals know he was even there???
> 
> Were the villagers shooting or Army????
> 
> 
> Wese naarey takbeer Allahu Akbar me dehshat bahut hai.



Villagers used their kite chasing training from childhood. His parachute was visible miles away..

Army jawan was firing his G-3 to keep the ground under control.

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## NA71

Myth_buster_1 said:


> He surrendered like a goat.
> 
> The villagers were screaming HANDS UP from 1/4 of a mile away and he raised up his hand while he was p1ssing in his pants.
> watch from 0:20 sec


wowww...haven't seen this vid. again locals pointing the 2nd one up on hills.


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## Myth_buster_1

NA71 said:


> wowww...haven't seen this vid. again locals pointing the 2nd one up on hills.



I would not rely on locals... they even asked him to take out his grenades lol
it could well be that mig-21 ejection seat may have a parachute or another Mig-21 was also shot down and that aircraft was pulverized before hitting the ground. Or it could be a Su-30 with only one pilot managed to eject and the other one died in the wreckage?


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## Thorough Pro

Third could a drag shoot deployed from the falling SU30




khanasifm said:


> 3 chutes in total per folks on the ground making video but only one was near by the other were far off


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## gambit

airomerix said:


> There is a concept called *'Kill Validity*". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc.


The idea of a 'valid' kill is essentially an assumption based upon some reasoning and evidences. A 'confirmed' kill is when there are eyewitnesses of the event, something that often occurred back in WW II when air combat were always within visual range. A 'valid' kill is when we declared that based upon A, B, and C, there is a greater than %X probability that the target did not survive. A 'valid' kill can be updated to 'confirmed' if later there are forensic proof that the target did not survive. These proofs can be something like debris or ops logs that said the pilot did not return.



airomerix said:


> *Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals*. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)
> 
> *The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs.*


Chaff can mislead a missile, even an AMRAAM or any claimed to be 'the best' missile out there. There are several related issues here.

When a missile is classified as 'fire and forget', it does not mean launch and leave. On the whole, we, meaning the entire military aviation community, did not have a good record of such a missile, even when we did designed and deployed such a missile. The 54 Phoenix was not only 'fire and forget' but actually 'launch and leave'. The Phoenix was not an 'integrated' weapon system precisely because of the 'launch and leave' design. Once launched, the pilot is free to leave the missile to its own devices. The missile carried its own active radar, discriminate its own target, select for home, and boresight on a target. The Phoenix's concept made the missile large, heavy, and time consuming for maintenance, especially for the electronics, which was not upgradable and 
rapidly getting older as miniaturization progresses. So when the F-14 retired, the Phoenix system had to be retired as well.

So where does the phrase 'fire and forget' comes in?

Experience showed us that the longer the ranges the greater the odds of a failure to kill. The longer ranges requires the missile to have as much data as possible in order to do what the Phoenix was designed to do: active radar, discrimination, selection, home, and boresight. The more radar activities, the greater the odds of the target being aware of the missile threat, especially when the radar operation changes to boresight mode which produces intense and unique signal characteristics, which the target would confirm to itself that there is a missile threat. But if we reduce the range on when to launch the missile, we risks getting involved into a turning fight which despite the romanticism of WW II, no pilot want to get into such a fight in the first place.

The compromise is the somewhat arbitrary designation of 'mid range' which for the AIM-120 started from 50 km and now to 150 km which approaches the 190 km of the Phoenix. So much for 'mid range'.

To increase the odds of a kill, or given the range involved, at least a 'valid' kill, we have to sort of 'silence' the missile's own radar operations to the last possible moments. To do this, the AMRAAM's radar does not 'go active' until certain algorithmic solutions are satisfied, and these are secrets. Suffice to say for public discussion, that 'go active' point is generally the mid point between the launch location and the target's location.

For example, if the distance between launch and target is 100 km, the AMRAAM's radar will go active when it crosses the 40-50 km point. Less if the launch aircraft decides to continuously guide the missile instead of the missile using its own radar.

When the AMRAAM's radar is active is when the missile becomes a 'fire and forget' weapon because it is calculated that the target do not have sufficient time and distance to formulate any countermeasure, even if his radar warning receiver (RWR) alerted him to the missile threat.

This goes back to the statement that declared chaff cannot mislead the AMRAAM. Chaff can mislead the AMRAAM depends on when the missile was launched, when the parent aircraft severs its guidance, and when the AMRAAM's radar go active. The longer this distance, the greater the odds of success for chaff. If a pilot launched an AMRAAM at max or near max operational range and immediately abandons it, chaff *WILL* mislead this AMRAAM.

This is why modern air combat is no less mentally challenging than when pilots fought with guns at several hundred meters apart. The pilot must know his aircraft and weapons limits in order to create as ideal as possible the environment for the missile to succeed.



airomerix said:


> *AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. *


The AMRAAM have a proximity fusing system that detonates the warhead without the missile impacting the target. Proximity fusing increases the odds of a kill.

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## ProudPak

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> We don't have the second pilot
> 
> 
> Do we have wreckage of AMRAAM which shot down Mig 21?


If the akram shot down the mig then f16s did the killing. F16s were not involved.


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## airomerix

Thanks Gambit. Pretty interesting. 



gambit said:


> The idea of a 'valid' kill is essentially an assumption based upon some reasoning and evidences. A 'confirmed' kill is when there are eyewitnesses of the event, something that often occurred back in WW II when air combat were always within visual range. A 'valid' kill is when we declared that based upon A, B, and C, there is a greater than %X probability that the target did not survive. A 'valid' kill can be updated to 'confirmed' if later there are forensic proof that the target did not survive. These proofs can be something like debris or ops logs that said the pilot did not return.
> 
> Chaff can mislead a missile, even an AMRAAM or any claimed to be 'the best' missile out there. There are several related issues here.
> 
> When a missile is classified as 'fire and forget', it does not mean launch and leave. On the whole, we, meaning the entire military aviation community, did not have a good record of such a missile, even when we did designed and deployed such a missile. The 54 Phoenix was not only 'fire and forget' but actually 'launch and leave'. The Phoenix was not an 'integrated' weapon system precisely because of the 'launch and leave' design. Once launched, the pilot is free to leave the missile to its own devices. The missile carried its own active radar, discriminate its own target, select for home, and boresight on a target. The Phoenix's concept made the missile large, heavy, and time consuming for maintenance, especially for the electronics, which was not upgradable and
> rapidly getting older as miniaturization progresses. So when the F-14 retired, the Phoenix system had to be retired as well.
> 
> So where does the phrase 'fire and forget' comes in?
> 
> Experience showed us that the longer the ranges the greater the odds of a failure to kill. The longer ranges requires the missile to have as much data as possible in order to do what the Phoenix was designed to do: active radar, discrimination, selection, home, and boresight. The more radar activities, the greater the odds of the target being aware of the missile threat, especially when the radar operation changes to boresight mode which produces intense and unique signal characteristics, which the target would confirm to itself that there is a missile threat. But if we reduce the range on when to launch the missile, we risks getting involved into a turning fight which despite the romanticism of WW II, no pilot want to get into such a fight in the first place.
> 
> The compromise is the somewhat arbitrary designation of 'mid range' which for the AIM-120 started from 50 km and now to 150 km which approaches the 190 km of the Phoenix. So much for 'mid range'.
> 
> To increase the odds of a kill, or given the range involved, at least a 'valid' kill, we have to sort of 'silence' the missile's own radar operations to the last possible moments. To do this, the AMRAAM's radar does not 'go active' until certain algorithmic solutions are satisfied, and these are secrets. Suffice to say for public discussion, that 'go active' point is generally the mid point between the launch location and the target's location.
> 
> For example, if the distance between launch and target is 100 km, the AMRAAM's radar will go active when it crosses the 40-50 km point. Less if the launch aircraft decides to continuously guide the missile instead of the missile using its own radar.
> 
> When the AMRAAM's radar is active is when the missile becomes a 'fire and forget' weapon because it is calculated that the target do not have sufficient time and distance to formulate any countermeasure, even if his radar warning receiver (RWR) alerted him to the missile threat.
> 
> This goes back to the statement that declared chaff cannot mislead the AMRAAM. Chaff can mislead the AMRAAM depends on when the missile was launched, when the parent aircraft severs its guidance, and when the AMRAAM's radar go active. The longer this distance, the greater the odds of success for chaff. If a pilot launched an AMRAAM at max or near max operational range and immediately abandons it, chaff *WILL* mislead this AMRAAM.
> 
> This is why modern air combat is no less mentally challenging than when pilots fought with guns at several hundred meters apart. The pilot must know his aircraft and weapons limits in order to create as ideal as possible the environment for the missile to succeed.
> 
> 
> The AMRAAM have a proximity fusing system that detonates the warhead without the missile impacting the target. Proximity fusing increases the odds of a kill.



Thank you Gambit. This is indeed interesting. 

S/L Hassan is said to have guided the missile for 18 seconds which made him cross the LoC as well in some direction. When asked why did he take that risk, he simply said he wanted to make sure the missile doesn't miss the target. He also mentioned that target was well within E pole of his aircraft. 

It probably means that AMRAAM was guided till the end and the Su-30 was unaware of the incoming missile until it was too late.

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## Maxpane

very interesting discussion


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## GriffinsRule

Since I didn't know what the term stood for, I had to Google it. For the benefit of others here as well;


*Active RADAR Missile* - A missile that contains an active RADAR set and other necessary avionics that allow the missile to fly independent of the launching platform's RADAR.

*SARH (Semi-Active RADAR Homming) Missile* - Requires the launch platform to maintain a RADAR lock on the target. The returning RADAR waves are intercepted by the missile for guidance. If the launch platform breaks RADAR lock with the target, then the missiles will lose guidance and fly wild.

*F-Pole* - F-Pole is a term associated with SARH missiles. It is the distance from the launching aircraft to the target at missile impact or better known as the missile stand-off distance. Soviet designed SARH missiles (mainly the R-27) are generally faster than American SARH missiles. When two fighters are approaching each other, the aircraft having the missile with the longest F-Pole usually wins. The F-Pole of a missile provides a relative performance measure between two forward-quarter missile shots. The purpose is to knock out the shooter's RADAR before his missile hits you. But it is still dependent on the launching platforms speed at launch. The missile will also have the speed of the launching platform to add to it's potential energy. The rocket motor doesn't burn for the entire flight of the missile, so any boost in the speed of the missile will aid it in hitting the intended target. You must also maintain an acceptable ASE (allowable steering error) so the missile does not loose lock. The truth is, the actual F-Pole of a given missile launch situation is classified.

*A-Pole* - A-Pole is the distance from the launching aircraft to the target when the missile begins active terminal guidance. The AIM-120 flies to a predetermined point in space using the INS and then activates it's onboard RADAR. This is approximately 10nm for the AIM-120 AMRAAM. The AIM-54 Phoenix missile contains active RADAR avionics but uses SARH mode to get to the target before switching to active. The A-Pole of the AIM-120 is classified.

*E-Pole* - The range from a threat aircraft that a drag must be accomplished to kinematically defeat any missile the bandit could have launched or is launching. This is also known as the no escape zone and is different for all missiles. The E-pole of a missile states that if a given missile flies to say 10 nm that it will hit it's target even if the target pulls up to an 8g maneuver at 500kts. But if the range is increased to 15 nm, then the missile may only be able to hit a target doing 5g's or less. If you look at this, you will see that the E-Pole includes the fact that the longer a missiles flies, the less the strike ability due to loss of kinetic energy. As stated before, a missile runs out of gas before it gets to it's intended target. So the ability to pull high g's by the missile diminishes as the missiles range increases. Remember from the BFM / ACM module that the missile will pull max lead as it flies to ensure a lead collision flight path. Again, the E-Pole of a given missile is classified.

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## Armchair

airomerix said:


> Good question.
> 
> Lets first understand how an AMRAAM behaves and what are the factors which enable us to determine the Su 30 kill.
> 
> There is a concept called *'Kill Validity*". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc.
> 
> However the question arises. Can the AD guys be wrong? Yes they can be.
> 
> What happened next is; PAF's studied the ACMI and FDR data which reveal the actual speed of the AMRAAM at all stages, altitudes, entry and exit velocity and the g's acting on the missile throughout the flight. This is when something interesting came up.
> 
> *Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals*. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)
> 
> *The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs. *
> 
> Furthermore, it has also been 'heard' the slugs had initially hit the forward section of the Su-30. Disintegrating it from the middle.
> 
> Now the final thing.
> 
> *The claim that 4-5 AMRAAMs were fired is just absurd because. The pieces of AMRAAM shown at the press conference clearly depicts a detonated missile. AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. Had AMRAAM crashed into a village or whatever their claim is. They would have found its warhead as well. In a bent form or whatever. Its not a pathaka which went bad after landing in India. Its $500,000 missile which has protocols to follow. *
> 
> @MODS: Please tag/highlight this post after scrutiny since it answers a lot of questions. Thanks!
> 
> @Armchair @Oscar @The Accountant @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Hodor



This clarifies everything. Kaiser Tufail could really have added this juicy bit to push forward the narrative. This is pretty seriously hard evidence.


----------



## Arsalan 345

khanasifm said:


> 3 chutes in total per folks on the ground making video but only one was near by the other were far off



Focus on the color of parachutes.


----------



## airomerix

gambit said:


> The AMRAAM have a proximity fusing system that detonates the warhead without the missile impacting the target. Proximity fusing increases the odds of a kill.



A question. 

Can an AMRAAM explode when the target outruns it and the missile hits lets say, a house on the ground?


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## HawkEye27

For all those confused about two parachutes







This image is specific to Mig-21 Ejection seat. Remember, the Mig-21 pilot ejected above 10,000 ft. 

And pls dont show me youtube ejection videos ( they are all below 10K)



airomerix said:


> A question.
> 
> Can an AMRAAM explode when the target outruns it and the missile hits lets say, a house on the ground?



The moment target outruns it, the missile will explode hoping to incur possible damage to target and avoid collatral on ground. But missiles are not dodged like the movie Behind the Enemy Lines. Actual missiles hardly miss and pilots are generally told to eject if the missile is near


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## airomerix

Armchair said:


> This clarifies everything. Kaiser Tufail could really have added this juicy bit to push forward the narrative. This is pretty seriously hard evidence.



This information is pretty rare to find in civilian circles so its unlikely Kaiser Tufail would take this risk. Since he would explain all this with more detail due to the virtue of his experience.



tipu_ssw said:


> The moment target outruns it, the missile will explode hoping to incur possible damage to target and avoid collatral on ground. But missiles are not dodged like the movie Behind the Enemy Lines. Actual missiles hardly miss and pilots are generally told to eject if the missile is near



I have been told exactly opposite by guys here at 9 Sqn. 

AMRAAM doesn't self destruct. Atleast the C5/C7 variants do not. 

Even NATO believes that. This is why they launched a multi million dollar search for the misfired AMRAAM which was never found. According to latest reports it is possible that the missile has gone underground due to the sheer velocity it flies with. But it certainly never exploded or else they would have found the debris within the extrapolated time.

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## HawkEye27

airomerix said:


> This information is pretty rare to find in civilian circles so its unlikely Kaiser Tufail would take this risk. Since he would explain all this with more detail due to the virtue of his experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been told exactly opposite by guys here at 9 Sqn.
> 
> AMRAAM doesn't self destruct. Atleast the C5/C7 variants do not.
> 
> Even NATO believes that. This is why they launched a multi million dollar search for the misfired AMRAAM which was never found. According to latest reports it is possible that the missile has gone underground due to the sheer velocity it flies with. But it certainly never exploded or else they would have found the debris within the extrapolated time.



Thats a different debate. If its active radar aquires the target then it will always self destruct assuming the target has over shot it. 

However, like the one you saying a case of mis fire then missile will not aquire the target and thus no self destruction.


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## GriffinsRule

airomerix said:


> This information is pretty rare to find in civilian circles so its unlikely Kaiser Tufail would take this risk. Since he would explain all this with more detail due to the virtue of his experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been told exactly opposite by guys here at 9 Sqn.
> 
> AMRAAM doesn't self destruct. Atleast the C5/C7 variants do not.
> 
> Even NATO believes that. This is why they launched a multi million dollar search for the misfired AMRAAM which was never found. According to latest reports it is possible that the missile has gone underground due to the sheer velocity it flies with. But it certainly never exploded or else they would have found the debris within the extrapolated time.


The difference could be due to the their being no designated target in case of the NATO AIM-120 launch being accidental? Hence no reason for its proximity fuse to detonate?

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## gambit

airomerix said:


> A question.
> 
> Can an AMRAAM explode when the target outruns it and the missile hits lets say, a house on the ground?


Most missiles have a self destruct operation when after a certain amount of time that the missile failed to acquire or reacquire the target. Whatever happened to the debris is a different issue.

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## CriticalThought

gambit said:


> The idea of a 'valid' kill is essentially an assumption based upon some reasoning and evidences. A 'confirmed' kill is when there are eyewitnesses of the event, something that often occurred back in WW II when air combat were always within visual range. A 'valid' kill is when we declared that based upon A, B, and C, there is a greater than %X probability that the target did not survive. A 'valid' kill can be updated to 'confirmed' if later there are forensic proof that the target did not survive. These proofs can be something like debris or ops logs that said the pilot did not return.
> 
> 
> Chaff can mislead a missile, even an AMRAAM or any claimed to be 'the best' missile out there. There are several related issues here.
> 
> When a missile is classified as 'fire and forget', it does not mean launch and leave. On the whole, we, meaning the entire military aviation community, did not have a good record of such a missile, even when we did designed and deployed such a missile. The 54 Phoenix was not only 'fire and forget' but actually 'launch and leave'. The Phoenix was not an 'integrated' weapon system precisely because of the 'launch and leave' design. Once launched, the pilot is free to leave the missile to its own devices. The missile carried its own active radar, discriminate its own target, select for home, and boresight on a target. The Phoenix's concept made the missile large, heavy, and time consuming for maintenance, especially for the electronics, which was not upgradable and
> rapidly getting older as miniaturization progresses. So when the F-14 retired, the Phoenix system had to be retired as well.
> 
> So where does the phrase 'fire and forget' comes in?
> 
> Experience showed us that the longer the ranges the greater the odds of a failure to kill. The longer ranges requires the missile to have as much data as possible in order to do what the Phoenix was designed to do: active radar, discrimination, selection, home, and boresight. The more radar activities, the greater the odds of the target being aware of the missile threat, especially when the radar operation changes to boresight mode which produces intense and unique signal characteristics, which the target would confirm to itself that there is a missile threat. But if we reduce the range on when to launch the missile, we risks getting involved into a turning fight which despite the romanticism of WW II, no pilot want to get into such a fight in the first place.
> 
> The compromise is the somewhat arbitrary designation of 'mid range' which for the AIM-120 started from 50 km and now to 150 km which approaches the 190 km of the Phoenix. So much for 'mid range'.
> 
> To increase the odds of a kill, or given the range involved, at least a 'valid' kill, we have to sort of 'silence' the missile's own radar operations to the last possible moments. To do this, the AMRAAM's radar does not 'go active' until certain algorithmic solutions are satisfied, and these are secrets. Suffice to say for public discussion, that 'go active' point is generally the mid point between the launch location and the target's location.
> 
> For example, if the distance between launch and target is 100 km, the AMRAAM's radar will go active when it crosses the 40-50 km point. Less if the launch aircraft decides to continuously guide the missile instead of the missile using its own radar.
> 
> When the AMRAAM's radar is active is when the missile becomes a 'fire and forget' weapon because it is calculated that the target do not have sufficient time and distance to formulate any countermeasure, even if his radar warning receiver (RWR) alerted him to the missile threat.
> 
> This goes back to the statement that declared chaff cannot mislead the AMRAAM. Chaff can mislead the AMRAAM depends on when the missile was launched, when the parent aircraft severs its guidance, and when the AMRAAM's radar go active. The longer this distance, the greater the odds of success for chaff. If a pilot launched an AMRAAM at max or near max operational range and immediately abandons it, chaff *WILL* mislead this AMRAAM.
> 
> This is why modern air combat is no less mentally challenging than when pilots fought with guns at several hundred meters apart. The pilot must know his aircraft and weapons limits in order to create as ideal as possible the environment for the missile to succeed.
> 
> 
> The AMRAAM have a proximity fusing system that detonates the warhead without the missile impacting the target. Proximity fusing increases the odds of a kill.



Many, many thanks for the very insightful and detailed explanation.

The post you quoted talks about ACMI and FDR recording the missile's trajectory. My question is, what is an ACMI pod doing on a combat mission with lives at stake? Couldn't it give away the aircraft's position to the enemy? Wouldn't the pilot want to maximize his load out of missiles, or keep everything to minimum for combat?

Is there bi-directional telemetry between AMRAAM and parent or is it only one way? Bi-directional would be needed if the aircraft is to record the trajectory.


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## Armchair

I think it is possible Pak lost something. Whether men on the ground in Balakot (perhaps not just trees and a crow) or an aircraft (3 chutes). Otherwise there would not be so much evasion and double talk. 

I fail to believe the Pak military establishment is so incompetent as to let the Indians take the cake and eat it too.


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## Windjammer

airomerix said:


> S/L Hassan is said to have guided the missile for 18 seconds which made him cross the LoC as well in some direction. When asked why did he take that risk, he simply said he wanted to make sure the missile doesn't miss the target. He also mentioned that target was well within E pole of his aircraft.
> 
> It probably means that AMRAAM was guided till the end and the Su-30 was unaware of the incoming missile until it was too late.



No dude that is totally wrong detail, S/L Hassan at no point crossed the LOC and AMRAAM is not guided by the pilot and flies independently once locked on the target.
Also not many will know that Hassan wasn't flying alone.

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## Cuirassier

Armchair said:


> I think it is possible Pak lost something. Whether men on the ground in Balakot (perhaps not just trees and a crow) or an aircraft (3 chutes). Otherwise there would not be so much evasion and double talk.
> 
> I fail to believe the Pak military establishment is so incompetent as to let the Indians take the cake and eat it too.


Please provide justifications, you're too confused due to spending helluva time on this debate.

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## airomerix

Windjammer said:


> No dude that is totally wrong detail, S/L Hassan at no point crossed the LOC and AMRAAM is not guided by the pilot and flies independently once locked on the target.
> Also not many will know that Hassan wasn't flying alone.



He did. This is coming directly from him. I have no reason to doubt my sources. 

And AMRAAM has to capability to fly independently. Pilot can still guide it all the way to keep its own radar from switching on. Refer to gambits post for further explanation.

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## Windjammer

airomerix said:


> He did. This is coming directly from him. I have no reason to doubt my sources.
> 
> And AMRAAM has to capability to fly independently. Pilot can still guide it all the way to keep its own radar from switching on. Refer to gambits post for further explanation.


Do you know who was flying as a GIBS with Hassan.....no F-16 was near the LOC.

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## gambit

CriticalThought said:


> The post you quoted talks about ACMI and FDR recording the missile's trajectory. My question is, what is an ACMI pod doing on a combat mission with lives at stake? Couldn't it give away the aircraft's position to the enemy? Wouldn't the pilot want to maximize his load out of missiles, or keep everything to minimum for combat?


No idea why. Yes. And yes.

ACMI can be recorded or live. First gen version are recorded and sometimes augmented with ground radar. Both sets of data are later collated and formatted for analyses. Newer gen are independent by collating GPS/INS with recorded flight data without ground data. In an exercise environment, ACMI data can be 'live' by continuous transmissions to a ground station for true real-time analyses.

For a combat mission, there is no reason to have this information.



CriticalThought said:


> Is there bi-directional telemetry between AMRAAM and parent or is it only one way? Bi-directional would be needed if the aircraft is to record the trajectory.


Depends on the model.

http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/2015-04-09-Latest-AMRAAM-variant-achieves-key-program-milestones 


> The AIM-120D is the newest air-to-air weapon in the U.S. arsenal and has significant capability improvements, including increased range, GPS-aided navigation, *two-way data link* and improved weapons effectiveness.


This does not mean the pilot somehow became a remote pilot for the missile.

Back in WW II, we used tracer rounds. After every X number of rounds, one round is a tracer. This is to provide the pilot with some information as to how he is shooting. The two-way data link is like an improved version of the tracer round. Real time flight states such as fuel and time-to-target. The pilot can -- before a certain threshold -- redirect the missile, or launch an additional missile to ensure a kill, or refocus to another target.

In using the aircraft's radar, the odds of missing a kill is reduced. Chaff cannot affect the aircraft's radar to the extent that it can to the missile's radar. Situational awareness by the pilot from his aircraft's radar will dismiss any countermeasures and will allow the missile to continue to its target. So when the pilot finally 'release' the missile from its data link 'leash', in a manner of speaking, the missile would have more secured target information from its own radar to make a kill. One-way data link already make the AMRAAM difficult to evade. Two-way data link practically assured a kill, assuming the pilot is trained in how to use the missile appropriately.

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## CriticalThought

gambit said:


> No idea why. Yes. And yes.
> 
> ACMI can be recorded or live. First gen version are recorded and sometimes augmented with ground radar. Both sets of data are later collated and formatted for analyses. Newer gen are independent by collating GPS/INS with recorded flight data without ground data. In an exercise environment, ACMI data can be 'live' by continuous transmissions to a ground station for true real-time analyses.
> 
> For a combat mission, there is no reason to have this information.
> 
> 
> Depends on the model.
> 
> http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/2015-04-09-Latest-AMRAAM-variant-achieves-key-program-milestones
> 
> This does not mean the pilot somehow became a remote pilot for the missile.
> 
> Back in WW II, we used tracer rounds. After every X number of rounds, one round is a tracer. This is to provide the pilot with some information as to how he is shooting. The two-way data link is like an improved version of the tracer round. Real time flight states such as fuel and time-to-target. The pilot can -- before a certain threshold -- redirect the missile, or launch an additional missile to ensure a kill, or refocus to another target.
> 
> In using the aircraft's radar, the odds of missing a kill is reduced. Chaff cannot affect the aircraft's radar to the extent that it can to the missile's radar. Situational awareness by the pilot from his aircraft's radar will dismiss any countermeasures and will allow the missile to continue to its target. So when the pilot finally 'release' the missile from its data link 'leash', in a manner of speaking, the missile would have more secured target information from its own radar to make a kill. One-way data link already make the AMRAAM difficult to evade. Two-way data link practically assured a kill, assuming the pilot is trained in how to use the missile appropriately.



Thanks again. So there is no way PAF could have recorded the missile's trajectory for later analysis, given they only have C-7 version?


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## gambit

Since there was some talk about proving a kill, here is probably the most unusual confirmation of an air combat kill.

This happened in Desert Storm...

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/03/the-last-ace/307291/ 


> OVER CESAR RODRIGUEZ’S desk hangs a macabre souvenir of his decades as a fighter pilot. It is a large framed picture, a panoramic cockpit view of open sky and desert. A small F‑15 Eagle is visible in the distance, but larger and more immediate, *filling the center of the shot, staring right at the viewer, is an incoming missile.*


To sum up the article, in a head-on situation, an F-15 launched an AIM-7 against an Iraqi MIG-29. The MIG crashed. A US special operations team found the MIG remains and recovered the jet's HUD data.


> ...of the items salvaged, the last millisecond of incoming data from the doomed Iraqi pilot’s HUD, or head-up display.


Here is the recovered HUD image...







Essentially, the MIG recorded its own death.

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## Signalian

^^ yar please koi iss banday Gambit ko kahay k ziada posts kiya karay yahan pe. Iski posts se bahut kuch seekhnay ko mil jata hay. magar yeh USA section se bahir nikalta hi nai hay.


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## CriticalThought

Signalian said:


> ^^ yar please koi iss banday Gambit ko kahay k ziada posts kiya karay yahan pe. Iski posts se bahut kuch seekhnay ko mil jata hay. magar yeh USA section se bahir nikalta hi nai hay.



@gambit you have fan mail. This extremely shy wall flower whose post I am quoting is saying in Urdu:

"Man someone should tell this guy gambit to post more frequently around here. We get to learn a lot from his posts. But he doesn't get out of the USA section."


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## Armchair

Signalian said:


> ^^ yar please koi iss banday Gambit ko kahay k ziada posts kiya karay yahan pe. Iski posts se bahut kuch seekhnay ko mil jata hay. magar yeh USA section se bahir nikalta hi nai hay.



You might want to use a language he understands mate.

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## airomerix

Windjammer said:


> Do you know who was flying as a GIBS with Hassan.....no F-16 was near the LOC.



No I don't. I can find out though. 

However I do know there were only two F-16As in the package. One piloted by Wg Cmdr Nauman and one by Wg Cmdr Tariq Waheed who is currently known with the title of Sher Afghan (Top CCS Graduate).


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## Windjammer

airomerix said:


> No I don't. I can find out though.
> 
> However I do know there were only two F-16As in the package. One piloted by Wg Cmdr Nauman and one by Wg Cmdr Tariq Waheed who is currently known with the title of Sher Afghan (Top CCS Graduate).


S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.


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## airomerix

Windjammer said:


> S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.



You must be talking about AOC Central then. And yes AOC Central, ACS Ops and several other high ranking officers were on the front.

Those of you who are worrying about ACMI taking up sidewinder space. 

ACMI in F-16 MLU's is modulated in Sniper Pod on right wing root. And ACMI is something which is must have these days even in combat missions. There shouldn't be any confusion in this.

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## HawkEye27

Windjammer said:


> S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.



Dir Ops


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## gambit

CriticalThought said:


> Thanks again. So there is no way PAF could have recorded the missile's trajectory for later analysis, given they only have C-7 version?


Unless the missile was tracked with a ground base radar, I do not see how.

An ACMI pod does not affect aircraft's capabilities other than taking up one pylon. All an ACMI pod does is intercept and record various aircraft data based upon its bus monitoring capabilities. Am not going to research the details in this event. I will leave it up to the Pakistani members here.

An ACMI pod can be used in an actual combat sortie but for what reason(s)? To verify what the aircraft actually did? But for that, why?

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## Apocalypse

Windjammer said:


> S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.


The Vice Chief, yes.


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## HawkEye27

CriticalThought said:


> Thanks again. So there is no way PAF could have recorded the missile's trajectory for later analysis, given they only have C-7 version?



Missile has a 2 way comm with aircraft if its been guided by its radar. 

As per accounts SL Hassan guided the missile all the way through. So the hud/radar symboligy indicates missile location


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## CriticalThought

tipu_ssw said:


> Missile has a 2 way comm with aircraft if its been guided by its radar.
> 
> As per accounts SL Hassan guided the missile all the way through. So the hud/radar symboligy indicates missile location



Read gambit's posts again. He has provided clear indication that two way comms on AMRAAM came only with Block D which PAF doesn't have. In the absence of that, you don't know where the missile went, you only know what the aircraft instructed it to do.


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## SQ8

airomerix said:


> This information is pretty rare to find in civilian circles so its unlikely Kaiser Tufail would take this risk. Since he would explain all this with more detail due to the virtue of his experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been told exactly opposite by guys here at 9 Sqn.
> 
> AMRAAM doesn't self destruct. Atleast the C5/C7 variants do not.
> 
> Even NATO believes that. This is why they launched a multi million dollar search for the misfired AMRAAM which was never found. According to latest reports it is possible that the missile has gone underground due to the sheer velocity it flies with. But it certainly never exploded or else they would have found the debris within the extrapolated time.


Probably for safety reasons I would not think self destruct would be something pushed especially to avoid collateral casualties or inadvertent triggers while on the wing of the aircraft itself.



CriticalThought said:


> Read gambit's posts again. He has provided clear indication that two way comms on AMRAAM came only with Block D which PAF doesn't have. In the absence of that, you don't know where the missile went, you only know what the aircraft instructed it to do.


The C-5 variant doesn’t have a 2 way datalink. What the aircraft’s systems have is the ability to advise the pilot when the missile has gone active (brevity code: pitbull)

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## airomerix

tipu_ssw said:


> Missile has a 2 way comm with aircraft if its been guided by its radar.
> 
> As per accounts SL Hassan guided the missile all the way through. So the hud/radar symboligy indicates missile location



You're right. The missile was guided till the end by S/L Hassan. I've confirmed this from multiple people. No doubt in it.


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## CriticalThought

Oscar said:


> The C-5 variant doesn’t have a 2 way datalink. What the aircraft’s systems have is the ability to advise the pilot when the missile has gone active (brevity code: pitbull)



That makes sense because that is the point when the aircraft hands over authority to the missile for terminal guidance. So PAF can know for sure that Fox 3 went pitbull, and the Indians showed us that it exploded. Whether the terminal phase guided it towards chaff or Flanker is unknown. Now we do have a video showing an aircraft with aft section on fire doing a tail spin. And I have previously posted analysis on that video that it looks like a proximity fuse went off near the fuel tank.


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## SQ8

airomerix said:


> You're right. The missile was guided till the end by S/L Hassan. I've confirmed this from multiple people. No doubt in it.


The part that “confirms” a hit is that it is uncharacteristic of Indians not to blow a toot on something as a damaged jet making it back. Or that the image of the jet making it back.

The “Amraam dodger” patches that appeared seemed to be almost an afterthought to the patches issued by the PAF.

If the Amraam was indeed “dodged” then why the clamoring for the Rafale? 

Even if we give all the benefit of the doubt to them, discard all accounts heard - that Rafale comment on its own gives veracity to any claim by the PAF.



CriticalThought said:


> That makes sense because that is the point when the aircraft hands over authority to the missile for terminal guidance. So PAF can know for sure that Fox 3 went pitbull, and the Indians showed us that it exploded. Whether the terminal phase guided it towards chaff or Flanker is unknown. Now we do have a video showing an aircraft with aft section on fire doing a tail spin. And I have previously posted analysis on that video that it looks like a proximity fuse went off near the fuel tank.


It is possible it could be the mig-21, but if it did explode on the Chaff - why did they not re-engage and basically the entire IAF technology “creme” tucked tail and ran?

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## CriticalThought

Oscar said:


> It is possible it could be the mig-21, but if it did explode on the Chaff - why did they not re-engage and basically the entire IAF technology “creme” tucked tail and ran?



I would like to draw attention to the video in this post. The video is in the quoted part. I feel like enough attention has not been paid to this video.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-465#post-11301242


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## SQ8

CriticalThought said:


> I would like to draw attention to the video in this post. The video is in the quoted part. I feel like enough attention has not been paid to this video.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-465#post-11301242


Its too low quality to determine if its a piece of an aircraft or an entire aircraft. We know the Mig-21 by the wreckage so it is possible that it is the fighter falling down.

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## airomerix

Oscar said:


> The part that “confirms” a hit is that it is uncharacteristic of Indians not to blow a toot on something as a damaged jet making it back. Or that the image of the jet making it back.
> 
> The “Amraam dodger” patches that appeared seemed to be almost an afterthought to the patches issued by the PAF.
> 
> If the Amraam was indeed “dodged” then why the clamoring for the Rafale?
> 
> Even if we give all the benefit of the doubt to them, discard all accounts heard - that Rafale comment on its own gives veracity to any claim by the PAF.
> 
> 
> It is possible it could be the mig-21, but if it did explode on the Chaff - why did they not re-engage and basically the entire IAF technology “creme” tucked tail and ran?



Exactly! 

Thank you! 

I think there is a gap in the understanding pertaining to the real capabilities on both sides of the borders. This is why there have been tons of invalid claims being made on daily basis. For example, launching of 4-5 AMRAAMS, AMRAAM hitting a village girl and blasting off. I mean WTF. 

The guys at AHQ are DEAD SURE that the AMRAAM is hit. There is a department at AHQ which was working on the data.

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## SQ8

airomerix said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> I think there is a gap in the understanding pertaining to the real capabilities on both sides of the borders. This is why there have been tons of invalid claims being made on daily basis. For example, launching of 4-5 AMRAAMS, AMRAAM hitting a village girl and blasting off. I mean WTF.
> 
> The guys at AHQ are DEAD SURE that the AMRAAM is hit. There is a department at AHQ which was working on the data.


Assuming the Amraam exploded into Chaff - where the heck did the Su go?
Did he just run at burner all the way back to Halwara, slam onto the runway and straight to the bathroom to let it go?
Amusing ideas aside, even if there is no Su kill; being able to take air superiority from a technologically superior force is an achievement in its own right.

However, based on what I heard from here and other places.. suffice to say the entire IAF is back to the drawing board for their ASR.

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## airomerix

Oscar said:


> Assuming the Amraam exploded into Chaff - where the heck did the Su go?
> Did he just run at burner all the way back to Halwara, slam onto the runway and straight to the bathroom to let it go?
> Amusing ideas aside, even if there is no Su kill; being able to take air superiority from a technologically superior force is an achievement in its own right.
> 
> However, based on what I heard from here and other places.. suffice to say the entire IAF is back to the drawing board for their ASR.



There are more than half a million troops in that province alone. There is a fair chance the debris has been hidden successfully. There are people in intelligence circles who hint at Su falling in the dam or something. Time will tell I guess.

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## SQ8

airomerix said:


> There are more than half a million troops in that province alone. There is a fair chance the debris has been hidden successfully. There are people in intelligence circles who hint at Su falling in the dam or something. Time will tell I guess.


The way transparency works in India; I doubt we will see anything of that sort especially with their national accountability institutions(historically stronger than hours) being compromised with the current nationalist fervor and political tainting.

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## Shabi1

HAIDER said:


> we have another rtrd pilot @Shabi1 in this forum, if i am not wrong.


I'm a engineer worked hands on in aviation industry, communications and on avionics before moving to business side.
Unfortunately your AMRAAM query can only be answered by a fighter pilot who has been trained to use BVRs. And I'm afraid at least for PAF such personal will not have retired yet or not authorized to talk on such topics.
I would advise better let it go for now and wait more. PAF will eventually release the details, they are teasing us.

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## HAIDER

Shabi1 said:


> I'm a engineer worked hands on in aviation industry, communications and on avionics before moving to business side.
> Unfortunately your AMRAAM query can only be answered by a fighter pilot who has been trained to use BVRs. And I'm afraid at least for PAF such personal will not have retired yet or not authorized to talk on such topics.
> I would advise better let it go for now and wait more. PAF will eventually release the details, they are teasing us.


thanks for your valuable input. we usually build speculative response on the basis of given knowledge on internet . otherwise , yes , there is no info from any pilot who deal previously real time scenario .



Oscar said:


> The way transparency works in India; I doubt we will see anything of that sort especially with their national accountability institutions(historically stronger than hours) being compromised with the current nationalist fervor and political tainting.


transparency in indian af, they really surprise me , extreme lack of professionalism. it seems it rss or bajp airforce ...

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## airomerix

HAIDER said:


> thanks for your valuable input. we usually build speculative response on the basis of given knowledge on internet . otherwise , yes , there is no info from any pilot who deal previously real time scenario .
> 
> 
> transparency in indian af, they really surprise me , extreme lack of professionalism. it seems it rss or bajp airforce ...


The chap wont be able to sleep peacefully with this burden of lies.

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## Chanakyaa

Oscar said:


> The part that “confirms” a hit is that it is uncharacteristic of Indians not to blow a toot on something as a damaged jet making it back. Or that the image of the jet making it back.



The Part which "exposes the PAF/ISPR" is :

1. Claiming that NO F16s took part, while later Saaying yes they did. Why Lie in the First Place ?
2. Claiming there were 3 Pilots, Later Just one. So, your Tall Claims can be Wrong.. ... Right ?

*Conclusion : Be Prepared for "Change of stand" any time.*
Food for Thought: *What if, Like Kargil, 10 Years later we come to know the REAL Truth of Pakistani Losses. Im sure that will be the case.*



> The “Amraam dodger” patches that appeared seemed to be almost an afterthought to the patches issued by the PAF.
> 
> If the Amraam was indeed “dodged” then why the clamoring for the Rafale?
> 
> Even if we give all the benefit of the doubt to them, discard all accounts heard - that Rafale comment on its own gives veracity to any claim by the PAF.



The Entire "Rafale" Issue has NOTHING to do with PAF at all. Period.

Ask Rahul Gandhi, who made "Rafale scam" and Anil Ambani their MAIN Election Agenda and Lost.
Infact, "Chowkidaar Chor Hai" actually meant "Rafale Scam". This was later squeezed by Modi, with "Main bhi Chowkidaar" Episode.

You claim to know India, well, Im surprised you were ignorant about the Rafale Issue which was headlines 24x7 during Indian Election.. Thanx to Congress.



HAIDER said:


> transparency in indian af, they really surprise me , extreme lack of professionalism. it seems it rss or bajp airforce ...



We Just Revealed that MI17 was a Friendly Fire. That too when Modi is in Power.

Words like "Accountability".. Tranparancy"....dont fit here...Please Ask about failures of Pakistani Missiles, which fail everywhere ( even in N.Korea and Chinaalong with US / Russia and Israel ) in the world Except Pakistan.

Truth :

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## HAIDER

airomerix said:


> The chap wont be able to sleep peacefully with this burden of lies.


an indian producer working to launch movie about this subject ....

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## airomerix

XiNiX said:


> The Part which "exposes the PAF/ISPR" is :
> 
> 1. Claiming that NO F16s took part, while later Saaying yes they did. Why Lie in the First Place ?
> 2. Claiming there were 3 Pilots, Later Just one. So, your Tall Claims can be Wrong.. ... Right ?
> 
> *Conclusion : Be Prepared for "Change of stand" any time.*
> Food for Thought: *What if, Like Kargil, 10 Years later we come to know the REAL Truth of Pakistani Losses. Im sure that will be the case.*
> 
> 
> 
> The Entire "Rafale" Issue has NOTHING to do with PAF at all. Period.
> 
> Ask Rahul Gandhi, who made "Rafale scam" and Anil Ambani their MAIN Election Agenda and Lost.
> Infact, "Chowkidaar Chor Hai" actually meant "Rafale Scam". This was later squeezed by Modi, with "Main bhi Chowkidaar" Episode.
> 
> You claim to know India, well, Im surprised you were ignorant about the Rafale Issue which was headlines 24x7 during Indian Election.. Thanx to Congress.
> 
> 
> 
> We Just Revealed that MI17 was a Friendly Fire. That too when Modi is in Power.
> Words like "Accountability".. Tranparancy"....dont fit here...Please Ask about failures of Pakistani Missiles, which fail everywhere ( even in N.Korea and Chinaalong with US / Russia and Israel ) in the world Except Pakistan.



You indians are not even intellectually sound to have a debate with. 



> The Part which "exposes the PAF/ISPR" is :
> 
> 1. Claiming that NO F16s took part, while later Saaying yes they did. Why Lie in the First Place ?



Because Modi is sharing bed with Trump since years now. It is a diplomatic effort to avoid international pressure.



> 2. Claiming there were 3 Pilots, Later Just one. So, your Tall Claims can be Wrong.. ... Right ?



So what? As ISPR said, there were multiple reports coming in. Also we have the second pilot. You dont have to worry about it. 



> *Conclusion : Be Prepared for "Change of stand" any time.*


*
*
Oh Yes. We changed the stands on 27th pretty well. 



> Food for Thought: What if, Like Kargil, 10 Years later we come to know the REAL Truth of Pakistani Losses. Im sure that will be the case.



Truth is not what you make of it. We do have debris of couple of other migs lying around from Kargil if i recall correctly. 



> The Entire "Rafale" Issue has NOTHING to do with PAF at all. Period.
> 
> Ask Rahul Gandhi, who made "Rafale scam" and Anil Ambani their MAIN Election Agenda and Lost.
> Infact, "Chowkidaar Chor Hai" actually meant "Rafale Scam". This was later squeezed by Modi, with "Main bhi Chowkidaar" Episode.
> 
> You claim to know India, well, Im surprised you were ignorant about the Rafale Issue which was headlines 24x7 during Indian Election.. Thanx to Congress.



You are terrible with comprehension of your own PM's remarks. 

Your Modi Jee said, HAD INDIA ACQUIRED RAFALES. IAF WOULDNT HAVE TO DRINK COW PISS ON 27TH. 

Do you understand it now?
*



We Just Revealed that MI17 was a Friendly Fire. That too when Modi is in Power.
Words like "Accountability".. Tranparancy"....dont fit here...Please Ask about failures of Pakistani Missiles, which fail everywhere ( even in N.Korea and Chinaalong with US / Russia and Israel ) in the world Except Pakistan.

Click to expand...

*
As if you could hide it with 1000 people by standing with burnt corpses of your officers. Had this Mi-17 fell in some secured cantonment area. We woudlnt even know about it. India is just momentarily lucky in Su's case.



HAIDER said:


> an indian producer working to launch movie about this subject ....



Will be a master piece for sure.

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## SIPRA

HAIDER said:


> an indian producer working to launch movie about this subject ....



Abhinandan would be played by Shakti Kapoor or Johny Lever?


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## airomerix

XiNiX said:


> Kindly Ask your Admin to Block all Indian IP Ranges. That will solve your issue far more "Intellectually".
> 
> With Due respect Sir, Please do tell that to Fools of Microsoft, Google, Pepsi and IMF where Indians seem to doing really bad.. while Highly Intelligent Pakistani's are Begging for a Few Billions Each Month.



I'm sorry for generalising. Only you are dumb. 

Does it serve you well?



> Well, The diplomatic effort was quickly gone, once we exposed the AMRAAM usage. How conveinent.
> [
> If what you said was the case, They could have still claimed that No we didnt use F16s. But the fact is, Y*our ISPR can LIE as per their convenience. * And Suits them because :



What happened next? Did US ban use of F-16s in Pakistan? 




> Very Professional Indeed. We will wait for another 10 Years Like Kargil for the second Pilot and Truth when a rogue ISI General will reveal the Truth on Live TV.



Please. There are countless other sell off's in Paksitans estanblishment who would benefit themselves over country. We recently announced death sentences for some. 

*
*



> Well, Should I believe HIM or You ? Please Tell me :



Whats your point? 



> Well, He could have even said, if we had F35s the situtaion was different. No. ?
> Why rafale ?



Because IAF is buying rafale. duh! This is why I say you have a low IQ. 



> Coz he was accused of "chowkidaar cor hai" that was DUE to RAFALE. He was merely saying, that The People accusing us on Rafale , compromosed Indian Security.
> 
> Kiddo, you have zero knowledge of Indian Politics. Teach Imran how to Talk with your Largest Donor and Nuclear Sponsor.



Atleast you conceded that your 'national security' was compromised in recent events. I'd give you that.

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## Mig hunter

XiNiX said:


> The Part which "exposes the PAF/ISPR" is :
> 
> 1. Claiming that NO F16s took part, while later Saaying yes they did. Why Lie in the First Place ?
> 2. Claiming there were 3 Pilots, Later Just one. So, your Tall Claims can be Wrong.. ... Right ?
> 
> *Conclusion : Be Prepared for "Change of stand" any time.*
> Food for Thought: *What if, Like Kargil, 10 Years later we come to know the REAL Truth of Pakistani Losses. Im sure that will be the case.*
> 
> 
> 
> The Entire "Rafale" Issue has NOTHING to do with PAF at all. Period.
> 
> Ask Rahul Gandhi, who made "Rafale scam" and Anil Ambani their MAIN Election Agenda and Lost.
> Infact, "Chowkidaar Chor Hai" actually meant "Rafale Scam". This was later squeezed by Modi, with "Main bhi Chowkidaar" Episode.
> 
> You claim to know India, well, Im surprised you were ignorant about the Rafale Issue which was headlines 24x7 during Indian Election.. Thanx to Congress.
> 
> 
> 
> We Just Revealed that MI17 was a Friendly Fire. That too when Modi is in Power.
> 
> Words like "Accountability".. Tranparancy"....dont fit here...Please Ask about failures of Pakistani Missiles, which fail everywhere ( even in N.Korea and Chinaalong with US / Russia and Israel ) in the world Except Pakistan.
> 
> Truth :


Truth is that India was the aggressor, acting like USA of the region, thinking Pakistan like Afghanistan, dreaming of trangressing the boundaries of only neibour except china which slaps India at every point of time with no repercussions. But a loss it was a slap so hard that its pain can be felt in ur post.

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## HawkEye27

525 pages of constant debate with no ending in sight!!!

I’ll just summarize that while Indian did cheered on 26th, the Pakistaniz as a nation enjoyed like anything after 27th. Su30, F16, JF-17 whatever went down or up. 

The laugh Pakistaniz got after Abhinandan was an ultimate gift from PAF. 

Historians and enthusiasts will keep discussing this for ages like 1965 is still debated. 

But we Pakistaniz had the last laugh. Thats it

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## SIPRA

tipu_ssw said:


> 525 pages of constant debate with no ending in sight!!!
> 
> I’ll just summarize that while Indian did cheered on 26th, the Pakistaniz as a nation enjoyed like anything after 27th. Su30, F16, JF-17 whatever went down or up.
> 
> The laugh Pakistaniz got after Abhinandan was an ultimate gift from PAF.
> 
> Historians and enthusiasts will keep discussing this for ages like 1965 is still debated.
> 
> But we Pakistaniz had the last laugh. Thats it



Yes. Their cheers and jubilation only lasted for 24 hours; ours is continuing. I was not member of PDF then, but those 24 hours, from Feb 26 morning, must be very heavy on Pakistani posters.

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## SQ8

XiNiX said:


> The Part which "exposes the PAF/ISPR" is :
> 
> 1. Claiming that NO F16s took part, while later Saaying yes they did. Why Lie in the First Place ?
> 2. Claiming there were 3 Pilots, Later Just one. So, your Tall Claims can be Wrong.. ... Right ?
> 
> *Conclusion : Be Prepared for "Change of stand" any time.*
> Food for Thought: *What if, Like Kargil, 10 Years later we come to know the REAL Truth of Pakistani Losses. Im sure that will be the case.*
> 
> 
> 
> The Entire "Rafale" Issue has NOTHING to do with PAF at all. Period.
> 
> Ask Rahul Gandhi, who made "Rafale scam" and Anil Ambani their MAIN Election Agenda and Lost.
> Infact, "Chowkidaar Chor Hai" actually meant "Rafale Scam". This was later squeezed by Modi, with "Main bhi Chowkidaar" Episode.
> 
> You claim to know India, well, Im surprised you were ignorant about the Rafale Issue which was headlines 24x7 during Indian Election.. Thanx to Congress.
> 
> 
> 
> We Just Revealed that MI17 was a Friendly Fire. That too when Modi is in Power.
> 
> Words like "Accountability".. Tranparancy"....dont fit here...Please Ask about failures of Pakistani Missiles, which fail everywhere ( even in N.Korea and Chinaalong with US / Russia and Israel ) in the world Except Pakistan.
> 
> Truth :


Irrelevant rants - please keep it focused


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## Myth_buster_1

@XiNiX 

if u are a man and care about ur cow mata then answer.....

2 r77 recovered 
1 r73 with tail section still stuck to pylon recovered 
1 r73 with serial num that can be traced back to iaf inventory also recovered 

so if all AAM recovered then how did this abhis shoot down an f16???? 

for god sake, he himself has not even said a single word if he had actually shot down anything. no military in this world will keep their soldier quite for such a big achievement.

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## Mrc

Myth_buster_1 said:


> @XiNiX
> 
> if u are a man and care about ur cow mata then answer.....
> 
> 2 r77 recovered
> 1 r73 with tail section still stuck to pylon recovered
> 1 r73 with serial num that can be traced back to iaf inventory also recovered
> 
> so if all AAM recovered then how did this abhis shoot down an f16????
> 
> for god sake, he himself has not even said a single word if he had actually shot down anything. no military in this world will keep their soldier quite for such a big achievement.





He cursed it and sprayed cow dung on it

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## Falcon26

tipu_ssw said:


> 525 pages of constant debate with no ending in sight!!!
> 
> I’ll just summarize that while Indian did cheered on 26th, the Pakistaniz as a nation enjoyed like anything after 27th. Su30, F16, JF-17 whatever went down or up.
> 
> The laugh Pakistaniz got after Abhinandan was an ultimate gift from PAF.
> 
> Historians and enthusiasts will keep discussing this for ages like 1965 is still debated.
> 
> But we Pakistaniz had the last laugh. Thats it



India never had any laugh. Their Balakot “strikes” were a failure as globally accepted and PAF bombed at multiple locations with impunity and downed at least one plane and forced the Indians to down one of their own in a fog of war created by PAF in which the Indians were totally blinded and jammed. The NYT had a headline which said India was humiliated. History and the facts are clear. Pakistan was the clear winner and there was no respite or saving grace for India. None at all. This is globally accepted and the record is sealed. Case closed.

I would really advice @Windjammer or someone else to create a thread on Indian admission of defeat and title the thread “in their own words”

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Falcon26 said:


> India never had any laugh. Their Balakot “strikes” were a failure as globally accepted and PAF bombed at multiple locations with impunity and downed at least one plane and forced the Indians to down one of their own in a fog of war created by PAF in which the Indians were totally blinded and jammed. The NYT had a headline which said India was humiliated. History and the facts are clear. Pakistan was the clear winner and there was no respite or saving grace for India. None at all. This is globally accepted and the record is sealed. Case closed.
> 
> I would really advice @Windjammer or someone else to create a thread on Indian admission of defeat and title the thread “in their own words”


Without any doubt india is the winner.
They won because they are trying to learn from their defeat.
They took many steps.
1) Israeli company upgraded their AWACS.
2) they are getting new bvrs.
3) they are developing underground tunnels at loc to store weapons and ammunition.
4) they are now more aggressively trying to deploy their su-30 close to border.
5) they have tested brahamos with su-30 to avoid more failures in future.
6) they have established information warfare department to counter ISPR. With this department and big Indian media, they can even win the war which they actually lost.

I see india winning at a small cost of 2 jets ,one brigade headquarter and ammunition depot.

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## HawkEye27

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> Without any doubt india is the winner.
> They won because they are trying to learn from their defeat.
> They took many steps.
> 1) Israeli company upgraded their AWACS.
> 2) they are getting new bvrs.
> 3) they are developing underground tunnels at loc to store weapons and ammunition.
> 4) they are now more aggressively trying to deploy their su-30 close to border.
> 5) they have tested brahamos with su-30 to avoid more failures in future.
> 6) they have established information warfare department to counter ISPR. With this department and big Indian media, they can even win the war which they actually lost.
> 
> I see india winning at a small cost of 2 jets ,one brigade headquarter and ammunition depot.



Bhai PAF bhi hath pe hath rakh kr nahi bethi hui!!! Believe me, PAF is fully aware of its weakness and strengths. 

Simply if Indians are publishing their purchases doesnt mean k hum wailay bethay hain

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## Areesh

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> Without any doubt india is the winner.

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## Smoke

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> Without any doubt india is the winner.
> They won because they are trying to learn from their defeat.
> They took many steps.
> 1) Israeli company upgraded their AWACS.
> 2) they are getting new bvrs.
> 3) they are developing underground tunnels at loc to store weapons and ammunition.
> 4) they are now more aggressively trying to deploy their su-30 close to border.
> 5) they have tested brahamos with su-30 to avoid more failures in future.
> 6) they have established information warfare department to counter ISPR. With this department and big Indian media, they can even win the war which they actually lost.
> 
> I see india winning at a small cost of 2 jets ,one brigade headquarter and ammunition depot.



What bakwas are you smoking? 

Modi has won the elections, nothing will happen.

India also deployed state of the arm sniper rifles at LOC, which has made no difference. 

Just wait until JF-17 Block III is revealed, that weapons platform with PL-15 is a huge deal.

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## CriticalThought

Smoke said:


> What bakwas are you smoking?
> 
> Modi has won the elections, nothing will happen.
> 
> India also deployed state of the arm sniper rifles at LOC, which has made no difference.
> 
> Just wait until JF-17 Block III is revealed, that weapons platform with PL-15 is a huge deal.



India has won diplomatically despite getting defeated militarily. On top of that, they now have a better understanding of our capability and their own weaknesses. They will also revise their previous misconceptions about the potency of some of the OEMs from which we buy. They will make inroads into these organizations and try to get information on backdoors etc. The world is open to India for buying equipment, whereas we only have a limited number of suppliers.

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## Smoke

CriticalThought said:


> India has won diplomatically despite getting defeated militarily. On top of that, they now have a better understanding of our capability and their own weaknesses. They will also revise their previous misconceptions about the potency of some of the OEMs from which we buy. They will make inroads into these organizations and try to get information on backdoors etc. The world is open to India for buying equipment, whereas we only have a limited number of suppliers.



They didnt win on any front. Period.

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Smoke said:


> What bakwas are you smoking?
> 
> Modi has won the elections, nothing will happen.
> 
> India also deployed state of the arm sniper rifles at LOC, which has made no difference.
> 
> Just wait until JF-17 Block III is revealed, that weapons platform with PL-15 is a huge deal.


I am not talking about what happened but impact of what happened. Indians are trying to learn and improve, which is a bad news for us. think realistically not idealistically.

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## Wikki019

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> I am not talking about what happened but impact of what happened. Indians are trying to learn and improve, which is a bad news for us. think realistically not idealistically.



Exactly they will try to improve very fast, we should also improve and acquire whatever we can get to defend our selves for next escalation. It is just a calm before storm.

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## Windjammer

Qutb-ud-din Aybak said:


> I am not talking about what happened but impact of what happened. Indians are trying to learn and improve, which is a bad news for us. think realistically not idealistically.


They (Indians) use to claim that the SU-30 is an overkill and MiG-29s are enough to sort out PAF.....now they think the Rafales will be the saving grace......i say watch this space.

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## HawkEye27

CriticalThought said:


> India has won diplomatically despite getting defeated militarily. On top of that, they now have a better understanding of our capability and their own weaknesses. They will also revise their previous misconceptions about the potency of some of the OEMs from which we buy. They will make inroads into these organizations and try to get information on backdoors etc. The world is open to India for buying equipment, whereas we only have a limited number of suppliers.



All the diplomatic backlash Pakistan faced on 26th simply vanished on 27th bcs what the world thought that India is some power was crushed by PAF. Everyone went to back channels trying to stop a nuke conflict. Believe me what ever be the diplomatic targets, having a nuke card is never one of them. So as we said, we always controlled the escalation ladder not the Indians, and thats a diplomatic manouver not military one. 


Secondly, IAF exactly knew their shortcomings and same with the PAF. Believe me you wont see any difference in the OEMs. Because it was the employment that screwed up. 

And then whats this rubbish that India won because they learned a lesson??? I guess we learned also due to Ballakot strike. Primarily our deterrence failed and now the ROE, deployment of assets and weaponry will see a major improvement to stop this becoming a new norm before every election

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## CriticalThought

tipu_ssw said:


> All the diplomatic backlash Pakistan faced on 26th simply vanished on 27th bcs what the world thought that India is some power was crushed by PAF. Everyone went to back channels trying to stop a nuke conflict. Believe me what ever be the diplomatic targets, having a nuke card is never one of them. So as we said, we always controlled the escalation ladder not the Indians, and thats a diplomatic manouver not military one.
> 
> 
> Secondly, IAF exactly knew their shortcomings and same with the PAF. Believe me you wont see any difference in the OEMs. Because it was the employment that screwed up.
> 
> And then whats this rubbish that India won because they learned a lesson??? I guess we learned also due to Ballakot strike. Primarily our deterrence failed and now the ROE, deployment of assets and weaponry will see a major improvement to stop this becoming a new norm before every election



This is what we have already given up:

1. Material support to the Kashmir cause. The PTI government will only make ineffective, feel good noises and Modi understands this.

2. Further acceptance and confirmation by our top leadership that we have terrorist groups and we need to do more.

3. Not even a whimper in the Security Council about India's aggression against us. In today's world, unilateral action against another state is the purvey of a very closed group of powers such as America, France, and Russia. India just joined that club. Look around and see what happens when you are aggressive outside the boundaries of your own country. Saddam Hussain is gone. Iran has America knocking on its doorstep. Russia has had CAATSA imposed on it. Yet not a single word against India. Instead, France, Britain, and America stood shoulder to shoulder with India to once again show Pakistan in a bad light. The matter of Maulana Masood Azhar is a bilateral issue between Pakistan and India. But siding with India to declare him a global terrorist, these powers have openly declared support for Indian narrative, despite blatant Indian aggression.

4. Terror attack happens in India, it attacks Pakistan. Terror attack happens in Pakistan against Navy and PAF personnel, and no action against India. And to add salt to injury, on the one hand Indian foreign minister speaks to SMQ, and on the other hand Modi gives cold shoulder to IK in his swearing in ceremony. And your PM is making excuses that it's just Indian politics. I have said this before: no shame amongst the shameless, no indignity amongst the dishonorable.

And I can tell you what is the root cause of all this. India has you by the balls in FATF. This terrorist nation that sent Kalbhushan Jadhav, is sitting in the APG, deciding whether Pakistan has done enough against terrorist financing. 

Here is what could be done differently. After Feb 27 when world leaders tried to diffuse tensions, we should have labelled India as an aggressor and demanded a declaration of truce by India. We should then have made the case that this nation is irresponsible and a war monger, and has no place in prestigious bodies such as FATF.

But we have a lame duck, impotent leadership who are mentally subjugated in front of their Western masters. They just have to say "Jump" and our leadership asks "How high?". That's the real problem.

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## Army research

CriticalThought said:


> This is what we have already given up:
> 
> 1. Material support to the Kashmir cause. The PTI government will only make ineffective, feel good noises and Modi understands this.
> 
> 2. Further acceptance and confirmation by our top leadership that we have terrorist groups and we need to do more.
> 
> 3. Not even a whimper in the Security Council about India's aggression against us. In today's world, unilateral action against another state is the purvey of a very closed group of powers such as America, France, and Russia. India just joined that club. Look around and see what happens when you are aggressive outside the boundaries of your own country. Saddam Hussain is gone. Iran has America knocking on its doorstep. Russia has had CAATSA imposed on it. Yet not a single word against India. Instead, France, Britain, and America stood shoulder to shoulder with India to once again show Pakistan in a bad light. The matter of Maulana Masood Azhar is a bilateral issue between Pakistan and India. But siding with India to declare him a global terrorist, these powers have openly declared support for Indian narrative, despite blatant Indian aggression.
> 
> 4. Terror attack happens in India, it attacks Pakistan. Terror attack happens in Pakistan against Navy and PAF personnel, and no action against India. And to add salt to injury, on the one hand Indian foreign minister speaks to SMQ, and on the other hand Modi gives cold shoulder to IK in his swearing in ceremony. And your PM is making excuses that it's just Indian politics. I have said this before: no shame amongst the shameless, no indignity amongst the dishonorable.
> 
> And I can tell you what is the root cause of all this. India has you by the balls in FATF. This terrorist nation that sent Kalbhushan Jadhav, is sitting in the APG, deciding whether Pakistan has done enough against terrorist financing.
> 
> Here is what could be done differently. After Feb 27 when world leaders tried to diffuse tensions, we should have labelled India as an aggressor and demanded a declaration of truce by India. We should then have made the case that this nation is irresponsible and a war monger, and has no place in prestigious bodies such as FATF.
> 
> But we have a lame duck, impotent leadership who are mentally subjugated in front of their Western masters. They just have to say "Jump" and our leadership asks "How high?". That's the real problem.


If India joined the club of unilateral action takers by killing a Allah jannat ata farmai Qawa, and a few trees and injuring a old man , Then Pakistan is above this week club by doing a actual strike on military targets and taking out fighter jets , this places Pakistan above, we can't demand a declaration of truce as that means no more Kashmir issue so defacto border for ever, and I a ksahsmiri would very much like to reclaim the land my grand father was forced out of and my family has bled and died to reclaim , and not see it given up

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## CriticalThought

Army research said:


> If India joined the club of unilateral action takers by killing a Allah jannat ata farmai Qawa, and a few trees and injuring a old man , Then Pakistan is above this week club by doing a actual strike on military targets and taking out fighter jets , this places Pakistan above, we can't demand a declaration of truce as that means no more Kashmir issue so defacto border for ever, and I a ksahsmiri would very much like to reclaim the land my grand father was forced out of and my family has bled and died to reclaim , and not see it given up



Iqbal said:

Wai nakami mata'-e-karwaan jata raha
Karwaan keh dil say ehsaas-e-ziyan jata raha

At this point I am lamenting the 'ehsaas-e-ziyan jata raha' part. I don't understand. How can we turn a blind eye to a glaring truth that is staring us in the face? And try to find any excuses to keep our heads buried in the ground!

Your land was attacked in violation of international law. You now have two separate rights: the right to attack back in retaliation, and the right to take the offender to the security council, get him declared an aggressor, and have the international community sanction him. Your valiant forces upheld the first right, whereas your lame P.M. is guilty of treason for making a complete joke out of your fundamental right.

And you are so advanced in blind following, that you think a declaration of truce means giving up Kashmir. Did you give up Kashmir by signing the dotted line in 71? You are victorious and you dictate the terms of the truce. I mean we are so impotent as a nation, we don't even understand how to seal our own victory. No wonder your lame P.M. is the stalwart saint of transgenders. Go get the operation done and comb the roads clapping both hands together in impotence.


----------



## Flight of falcon

CriticalThought said:


> This is what we have already given up:
> 
> 1. Material support to the Kashmir cause. The PTI government will only make ineffective, feel good noises and Modi understands this.
> 
> 2. Further acceptance and confirmation by our top leadership that we have terrorist groups and we need to do more.
> 
> 3. Not even a whimper in the Security Council about India's aggression against us. In today's world, unilateral action against another state is the purvey of a very closed group of powers such as America, France, and Russia. India just joined that club. Look around and see what happens when you are aggressive outside the boundaries of your own country. Saddam Hussain is gone. Iran has America knocking on its doorstep. Russia has had CAATSA imposed on it. Yet not a single word against India. Instead, France, Britain, and America stood shoulder to shoulder with India to once again show Pakistan in a bad light. The matter of Maulana Masood Azhar is a bilateral issue between Pakistan and India. But siding with India to declare him a global terrorist, these powers have openly declared support for Indian narrative, despite blatant Indian aggression.
> 
> 4. Terror attack happens in India, it attacks Pakistan. Terror attack happens in Pakistan against Navy and PAF personnel, and no action against India. And to add salt to injury, on the one hand Indian foreign minister speaks to SMQ, and on the other hand Modi gives cold shoulder to IK in his swearing in ceremony. And your PM is making excuses that it's just Indian politics. I have said this before: no shame amongst the shameless, no indignity amongst the dishonorable.
> 
> And I can tell you what is the root cause of all this. India has you by the balls in FATF. This terrorist nation that sent Kalbhushan Jadhav, is sitting in the APG, deciding whether Pakistan has done enough against terrorist financing.
> 
> Here is what could be done differently. After Feb 27 when world leaders tried to diffuse tensions, we should have labelled India as an aggressor and demanded a declaration of truce by India. We should then have made the case that this nation is irresponsible and a war monger, and has no place in prestigious bodies such as FATF.
> 
> But we have a lame duck, impotent leadership who are mentally subjugated in front of their Western masters. They just have to say "Jump" and our leadership asks "How high?". That's the real problem.




The whole premises of your argument is flawed.

Let’s be clear about few things. 
Pakistan is in no shape politically or diplomatically to achieve anything because of our past criminal mismanagement on both fronts. 

Indians could not have wished for any thing better than what they got in the last 10 years of democrazy in Pakistan. 
They had their friends in Nawaz and Zardari to destroy Pakistan from inside. A bafoon name Nawaz Sharif was the foreign minister for the last five years. As uneducated and unimpressive he is he had his own vested interests in not fighting any diplomatic war against India. 
And what could he really do? Americans and British hold files on him of all his corrupt deals, bank accounts and properties everywhere in the world. Could he possibly say anything against the best wishes of our enemies? Same goes for Zardari.

Thank God we have a man in charge who is a visionary, respected through out the world and the best diplomat face one could Ask for. 

When you have senator Lindsey Graham singing praises you know Trump is listening. He has no files and secrets that our enemies can use. 

India in its own might hold diplomatic and economic superiority over us. We may never achieve their level of influence due to their sheer size but we can hold our own if we have capable diplomats and leadership.

Kashmir cannot be won with force. As a Kashmiri I see a disaster if one tries to.
This government and military leadership is the right combination to deliver and we showed them in Feb. Mind you the crisis happened because militancy in Kashmir is increasing by locals, population turned hostile and Pakistani government raising Kashmir at every forum possible. This government is free from Kashmir committee Mulah haramkhour and is doing some real work. 

The fact is that most militant groups have long outlived their usefulness for us. Today the world has changed. Diplomatically you have to show you are not linked with any organization not controlled by the government.

How does it look when an attack launched outside Pakistan is accepted by a spokesperson sitting inside Pakistan and openly claiming they carried out the attack.
Indians are behind all the terrorist attacks inside Pakistan but I have never known of any one calling news channels and accepting responsibility while sitting in India. 

This is the big difference . 

For the freedom war to achieve anything people sitting in Kashmir must fight and accept responsibility. Pakistan can provide logistics and support but not platform to issue press releases from. 

Knowing where you belong, realize your weaknesses and address issues causing world to look away from us is better than over estimating our position in the world and making empty noise and threats that no one will listen to.

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## Smoke

CriticalThought said:


> This is what we have already given up:
> 
> 1. Material support to the Kashmir cause. The PTI government will only make ineffective, feel good noises and Modi understands this.
> 
> 2. Further acceptance and confirmation by our top leadership that we have terrorist groups and we need to do more.
> 
> 3. Not even a whimper in the Security Council about India's aggression against us. In today's world, unilateral action against another state is the purvey of a very closed group of powers such as America, France, and Russia. India just joined that club. Look around and see what happens when you are aggressive outside the boundaries of your own country. Saddam Hussain is gone. Iran has America knocking on its doorstep. Russia has had CAATSA imposed on it. Yet not a single word against India. Instead, France, Britain, and America stood shoulder to shoulder with India to once again show Pakistan in a bad light. The matter of Maulana Masood Azhar is a bilateral issue between Pakistan and India. But siding with India to declare him a global terrorist, these powers have openly declared support for Indian narrative, despite blatant Indian aggression.
> 
> 4. Terror attack happens in India, it attacks Pakistan. Terror attack happens in Pakistan against Navy and PAF personnel, and no action against India. And to add salt to injury, on the one hand Indian foreign minister speaks to SMQ, and on the other hand Modi gives cold shoulder to IK in his swearing in ceremony. And your PM is making excuses that it's just Indian politics. I have said this before: no shame amongst the shameless, no indignity amongst the dishonorable.
> 
> And I can tell you what is the root cause of all this. India has you by the balls in FATF. This terrorist nation that sent Kalbhushan Jadhav, is sitting in the APG, deciding whether Pakistan has done enough against terrorist financing.
> 
> Here is what could be done differently. After Feb 27 when world leaders tried to diffuse tensions, we should have labelled India as an aggressor and demanded a declaration of truce by India. We should then have made the case that this nation is irresponsible and a war monger, and has no place in prestigious bodies such as FATF.
> 
> But we have a lame duck, impotent leadership who are mentally subjugated in front of their Western masters. They just have to say "Jump" and our leadership asks "How high?". That's the real problem.



Your points are very valid, but war requires money and we do not have money. If we had $10 trillion USD, I can assure you that WE would be the monkeys firing and jumping in the air, and India would be scurrying around like a rat.


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## Flight of falcon

CriticalThought said:


> Iqbal said:
> 
> Wai nakami mata'-e-karwaan jata raha
> Karwaan keh dil say ehsaas-e-ziyan jata raha
> 
> At this point I am lamenting the 'ehsaas-e-ziyan jata raha' part. I don't understand. How can we turn a blind eye to a glaring truth that is staring us in the face? And try to find any excuses to keep our heads buried in the ground!
> 
> Your land was attacked in violation of international law. You now have two separate rights: the right to attack back in retaliation, and the right to take the offender to the security council, get him declared an aggressor, and have the international community sanction him. Your valiant forces upheld the first right, whereas your lame P.M. is guilty of treason for making a complete joke out of your fundamental right.
> 
> And you are so advanced in blind following, that you think a declaration of truce means giving up Kashmir. Did you give up Kashmir by signing the dotted line in 71? You are victorious and you dictate the terms of the truce. I mean we are so impotent as a nation, we don't even understand how to seal our own victory. No wonder your lame P.M. is the stalwart saint of transgenders. Go get the operation done and comb the roads clapping both hands together in impotence.




Yes we at the stalemate with no real solution in sight but starting a war is totally stupid. Your ghairat will not pay billions in losses. We did tremendous job and responded proportionally. Yes we were attacked and we attacked back and won. 
Now your point of going to the security council is funny. Americans, French and British had issued statements right after the attack supporting Indian right to attack. Russia being on their side what is the point you see going to UN security council? 
Start a war? I leave it to your wonderful imagination of horses crossing the border and fighting Indians. We should reserve the war when it’s ansolutely necessary. As I said you don’t start a war over a failed airstrike which you have already responded proportionally and obtained desired results.

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## Army research

CriticalThought said:


> Iqbal said:
> 
> Wai nakami mata'-e-karwaan jata raha
> Karwaan keh dil say ehsaas-e-ziyan jata raha
> 
> At this point I am lamenting the 'ehsaas-e-ziyan jata raha' part. I don't understand. How can we turn a blind eye to a glaring truth that is staring us in the face? And try to find any excuses to keep our heads buried in the ground!
> 
> Your land was attacked in violation of international law. You now have two separate rights: the right to attack back in retaliation, and the right to take the offender to the security council, get him declared an aggressor, and have the international community sanction him. Your valiant forces upheld the first right, whereas your lame P.M. is guilty of treason for making a complete joke out of your fundamental right.
> 
> And you are so advanced in blind following, that you think a declaration of truce means giving up Kashmir. Did you give up Kashmir by signing the dotted line in 71? You are victorious and you dictate the terms of the truce. I mean we are so impotent as a nation, we don't even understand how to seal our own victory. No wonder your lame P.M. is the stalwart saint of transgenders. Go get the operation done and comb the roads clapping both hands together in impotence.


You honestly think the UN is a big deal ? The UN is Nothing , more useless than the OIC

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## Flight of falcon

Army research said:


> You honestly think the UN is a big deal ? The UN is Nothing , more useless than the OIC



Going to UN will allow world
Powers to gang up on us and we will get nothing except to find out what we already know. We have no friends in the west. Heck we once had a hair piece wearing ambassador in America working for CIA who now teaches and preaches anti Pakistan courses in Washington.

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## TsAr

The only thing that can keep the kashmiri cause alive is kashmiri's themselves. They have to fight and resist the Indian forces. We as Pakistani's can only support them but the kashmiri's have to stand up for their just cause.

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## araz

Flight of falcon said:


> The whole premises of your argument is flawed.
> 
> Let’s be clear about few things.
> Pakistan is in no shape politically or diplomatically to achieve anything because of our past criminal mismanagement on both fronts.
> 
> Indians could not have wished for any thing better than what they got in the last 10 years of democrazy in Pakistan.
> They had their friends in Nawaz and Zardari to destroy Pakistan from inside. A bafoon name Nawaz Sharif was the foreign minister for the last five years. As uneducated and unimpressive he is he had his own vested interests in not fighting any diplomatic war against India.
> And what could he really do? Americans and British hold files on him of all his corrupt deals, bank accounts and properties everywhere in the world. Could he possibly say anything against the best wishes of our enemies? Same goes for Zardari.
> 
> Thank God we have a man in charge who is a visionary, respected through out the world and the best diplomat face one could Ask for.
> 
> When you have senator Lindsey Graham singing praises you know Trump is listening. He has no files and secrets that our enemies can use.
> 
> India in its own might hold diplomatic and economic superiority over us. We may never achieve their level of influence due to their sheer size but we can hold our own if we have capable diplomats and leadership.
> 
> Kashmir cannot be won with force. As a Kashmiri I see a disaster if one tries to.
> This government and military leadership is the right combination to deliver and we showed them in Feb. Mind you the crisis happened because militancy in Kashmir is increasing by locals, population turned hostile and Pakistani government raising Kashmir at every forum possible. This government is free from Kashmir committee Mulah haramkhour and is doing some real work.
> 
> The fact is that most militant groups have long outlived their usefulness for us. Today the world has changed. Diplomatically you have to show you are not linked with any organization not controlled by the government.
> 
> How does it look when an attack launched outside Pakistan is accepted by a spokesperson sitting inside Pakistan and openly claiming they carried out the attack.
> Indians are behind all the terrorist attacks inside Pakistan but I have never known of any one calling news channels and accepting responsibility while sitting in India.
> 
> This is the big difference .
> 
> For the freedom war to achieve anything people sitting in Kashmir must fight and accept responsibility. Pakistan can provide logistics and support but not platform to issue press releases from.
> 
> Knowing where you belong, realize your weaknesses and address issues causing world to look away from us is better than over estimating our position in the world and making empty noise and threats that no one will listen to.


Barring the Lindsey Green comment I cannot agree with you more. Your statement about the need for the Kashmir struggle to be an indegenous effort with local populace being actively involved is pivotal to the settlement if the issue. Paklands involvement takes all the legitimacy away from this genuine internal struggle by assigning an external factor and therefore legitimising the notion that this is instigated from outside.
Pakistan has tried the inciting the uprising route to disasterous consequences and lost 3000(?) men in the bargain plus 50 Curore Rupees that went into the pockets of the local leadership and to no benefit of the people. So to try this foolish approach again will almost always lead to the same results and give legitimacy to Indian aggression against the innocent Kashmiris. Crass as it may sound this is the only way for the people to get their just results from this struggle.
A


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## thinkingcap81

Oscar said:


> Assuming the Amraam exploded into Chaff - where the heck did the Su go?
> Did he just run at burner all the way back to Halwara, slam onto the runway and straight to the bathroom to let it go?
> Amusing ideas aside, even if there is no Su kill; *being able to take air superiority from a technologically superior force is an achievement in its own right*.
> 
> However, based on what I heard from here and other places.. suffice to say *the entire IAF is back to the drawing board for their ASR*.



The battle was too localised and hence gives PAF enough opportunity to achieve local superiority - this is a no-brainer. What is important is the desire and/or compulsions to achieve this effect, and the consequent implications of this desire. For the short term effect one must appreciate PAF.

On our side it is good if IAF and out govt are forced to address critical shortcomings or reorient strategies. Subcontinent folks are not much good in imagining the overall picture - we fall flat pretty soon.

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## Falcon26

thinkingcap81 said:


> The battle was too localised and hence gives PAF enough opportunity to achieve local superiority - this is a no-brainer. What is important is the desire and/or compulsions to achieve this effect, and the consequent implications of this desire. For the short term effect one must appreciate PAF.
> 
> On our side it is good if IAF and out govt are forced to address critical shortcomings or reorient strategies. Subcontinent folks are not much good in imagining the overall picture - we fall flat pretty soon.



Remember pre-27th feb claims of SU-30s and S-300 not allowing PAF jets anywhere near Indian airspace let alone carry out punitive attacks within Indian territory and with impunity?

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## thinkingcap81

Falcon26 said:


> Remember pre-27th feb claims of SU-30s and S-300 not allowing PAF jets anywhere near Indian airspace let alone carry out punitive attacks within Indian territory and with impunity?


Well, as per reports PAF aircraft did not enter physically enter Indian airspace, they sent H4s from your side of the border. IAF Mig-21 entered your airspace.

We need to understand that all of us claim certain things - the threat of being able to carry out that claim with impunity is another issue. You guys also said that your nuclear deterrence is enough to ensure that nothing will happen. Indian armed forces devise strategies to counter this, and needs the govt. to give the go-ahead for a relatively bigger operation.


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## Falcon26

thinkingcap81 said:


> Well, as per reports PAF aircraft did not enter physically enter Indian airspace, they sent H4s from your side of the border. IAF Mig-21 entered your airspace.
> 
> We need to understand that all of us claim certain things - the threat of being able to carry out that claim with impunity is another issue. You guys also said that your nuclear deterrence is enough to ensure that nothing will happen. Indian armed forces devise strategies to counter this, and needs the govt. to give the go-ahead for a relatively bigger operation.



Lol not my airspace as I am not a Pakistani!

India is on record saying PAF entered its territory. Pakistan’s deference worked as intended. PAF retaliated and put India in its place. Your country couldn’t respond. Pakistan landed the last blow which validates Pakistan’s deterrence. Modi’s missile strike threat was killed as soon as it was uttered.

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## Taimur Khurram

People are still discussing this....


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## Mig hunter

CriticalThought said:


> India has won diplomatically despite getting defeated militarily. On top of that, they now have a better understanding of our capability and their own weaknesses. They will also revise their previous misconceptions about the potency of some of the OEMs from which we buy. They will make inroads into these organizations and try to get information on backdoors etc. The world is open to India for buying equipment, whereas we only have a limited number of suppliers.


Dear sir, it isn't a one way traffic. If they are making up for their deficiencies so are we. Remember with in 1st wk of incident, there was at least a rumor about purchase of PL 15.either it was due to the advantage of AMRAAM on 27 Feb as being spoken by Indians themselves or it was pre-planned.

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## CriticalThought

Mig hunter said:


> Dear sir, it isn't a one way traffic. If they are making up for their deficiencies so are we. Remember with in 1st wk of incident, there was at least a rumor about purchase of PL 15.either it was due to the advantage of AMRAAM on 27 Feb as being spoken by Indians themselves or it was pre-planned.



Until and unless we move towards indigenization and grounds up learning of modern technology, the international coalition of America, Israel, France, Britain, and India is going to rule us. They are squeezing from every aspect: financial, military equipment, political. In response, we are increasingly an uneducated, non-technical nation who look to foreign suppliers for even the most basic needs. And our leaders are either agents of these foreign powers or total mental slaves. They don't even have the vision to make Pakistan a true World Power that can hold its own against any other nation in the world. There is no focus on education, no focus on creating an industrial base. Your businessmen don't want to be world leaders. Your bureaucracy doesn't want to be competitive. The best this current government has is imparting technical knowledge as part of CPEC projects. But here is the key thing: when you yourself don't have the vision to be a leader, you are incapable of charting the path towards leadership, you are not going to become a leader just because of some CPEC projects. It's now a decade since manufacturing of JF-17 started. We still don't have the infrastructure to imagine a new design, perform wind tunnel tests locally, create test rigs for various components. And Project Azm, at least from the details that we know today, seems to suffer the same lack of focus as the Indian Kaveri and Tejas. I am increasingly disheartened by this state of affairs.


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## airomerix

thinkingcap81 said:


> The battle was too localised and hence gives PAF enough opportunity to achieve local superiority - this is a no-brainer. What is important is the desire and/or compulsions to achieve this effect, and the consequent implications of this desire. For the short term effect one must appreciate PAF.



Allow me to address your ignorance.

lol. PAF has been deterring IAF threats all along the entire border for your kind and incomplete information. 

Since 27th, there have been more than 30 attempts by IAF all along the border with sizeable formations to attempt ingress in Pakistan which have been thwarted successfully. This throws your argument of localised air superiority out of the window. 

Every now and then, your Su-30's and Mirages are hiding behind commercial airliners going north and try to be clever. You dont even know what you're talking about. 



> *On our side it is good if IAF and out govt are forced to address critical shortcomings or reorient strategies. *Subcontinent folks are not much good in imagining the overall picture - we fall flat pretty soon.



*Good. 27th was like a piece of cake. Nearly took the honour out of the battle. Nearly. *

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## Jugger

Flight of falcon said:


> The whole premises of your argument is flawed.
> 
> Let’s be clear about few things.
> Pakistan is in no shape politically or diplomatically to achieve anything because of our past criminal mismanagement on both fronts.
> 
> Indians could not have wished for any thing better than what they got in the last 10 years of democrazy in Pakistan.
> They had their friends in Nawaz and Zardari to destroy Pakistan from inside. A bafoon name Nawaz Sharif was the foreign minister for the last five years. As uneducated and unimpressive he is he had his own vested interests in not fighting any diplomatic war against India.
> And what could he really do? Americans and British hold files on him of all his corrupt deals, bank accounts and properties everywhere in the world. Could he possibly say anything against the best wishes of our enemies? Same goes for Zardari.
> 
> Thank God we have a man in charge who is a visionary, respected through out the world and the best diplomat face one could Ask for.
> 
> When you have senator Lindsey Graham singing praises you know Trump is listening. He has no files and secrets that our enemies can use.
> 
> India in its own might hold diplomatic and economic superiority over us. We may never achieve their level of influence due to their sheer size but we can hold our own if we have capable diplomats and leadership.
> 
> Kashmir cannot be won with force. As a Kashmiri I see a disaster if one tries to.
> This government and military leadership is the right combination to deliver and we showed them in Feb. Mind you the crisis happened because militancy in Kashmir is increasing by locals, population turned hostile and Pakistani government raising Kashmir at every forum possible. This government is free from Kashmir committee Mulah haramkhour and is doing some real work.
> 
> The fact is that most militant groups have long outlived their usefulness for us. Today the world has changed. Diplomatically you have to show you are not linked with any organization not controlled by the government.
> 
> How does it look when an attack launched outside Pakistan is accepted by a spokesperson sitting inside Pakistan and openly claiming they carried out the attack.
> Indians are behind all the terrorist attacks inside Pakistan but I have never known of any one calling news channels and accepting responsibility while sitting in India.
> 
> This is the big difference .
> 
> For the freedom war to achieve anything people sitting in Kashmir must fight and accept responsibility. Pakistan can provide logistics and support but not platform to issue press releases from.
> 
> Knowing where you belong, realize your weaknesses and address issues causing world to look away from us is better than over estimating our position in the world and making empty noise and threats that no one will listen to.


Nice post dude...!
Nicely written with clear and crisp points.


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## Flight of falcon

GumNaam said:


> ab kia iskay bhi balls lick karnay hain??? bay tuttay choos choos kay mar jaye ga!!!




Bro do you talk to your family like this too? This forum is full of wired people with some bizarre upbringing of some members. As if we didn’t have Shortage of arrogance , cocky, self righteous and all knowing types here we have a gutter type showing up.


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## GumNaam

Flight of falcon said:


> Bro do you talk to your family like this too? This forum is full of wired people with some bizarre upbringing of some members. As if we didn’t have Shortage of arrogance , cocky, self righteous and all knowing types here we have a gutter type showing up.


Just talkin to em in the language they understand!


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## CriticalThought

Flight of falcon said:


> Bro do you talk to your family like this too? This forum is full of wired people with some bizarre upbringing of some members. As if we didn’t have Shortage of arrogance , cocky, self righteous and all knowing types here we have a gutter type showing up.



Add to that traitors, mental slaves, and intellectually stunted.

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## thinkingcap81

airomerix said:


> Allow me to address your ignorance.
> 
> lol. PAF has been deterring IAF threats all along the entire border for your kind and incomplete information.
> 
> Since 27th, there have been more than 30 attempts by IAF all along the border with sizeable formations to attempt ingress in Pakistan which have been thwarted successfully. This throws your argument of localised air superiority out of the window.
> 
> Every now and then, your Su-30's and Mirages are hiding behind commercial airliners going north and try to be clever. You dont even know what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> *Good. 27th was like a piece of cake. Nearly took the honour out of the battle. Nearly. *



I suppose you mean that if IAF goes all out against PAF, IAF will not even achieve a modicum of success. Taking this further, this should extend to all branches of the Indian armed forces against the Pakistani counterpart.

This makes sense. This is the most important reason why PA has agreed to reduce its budget requirements - the requirement increased only because of WoT, which has achieved military success and hence PA need not have the same tempo of operations.

More power to you.


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## Pakistani Fighter

CriticalThought said:


> This is what we have already given up:
> 
> 1. Material support to the Kashmir cause. The PTI government will only make ineffective, feel good noises and Modi understands this.
> 
> 2. Further acceptance and confirmation by our top leadership that we have terrorist groups and we need to do more.
> 
> 3. Not even a whimper in the Security Council about India's aggression against us. In today's world, unilateral action against another state is the purvey of a very closed group of powers such as America, France, and Russia. India just joined that club. Look around and see what happens when you are aggressive outside the boundaries of your own country. Saddam Hussain is gone. Iran has America knocking on its doorstep. Russia has had CAATSA imposed on it. Yet not a single word against India. Instead, France, Britain, and America stood shoulder to shoulder with India to once again show Pakistan in a bad light. The matter of Maulana Masood Azhar is a bilateral issue between Pakistan and India. But siding with India to declare him a global terrorist, these powers have openly declared support for Indian narrative, despite blatant Indian aggression.
> 
> 4. Terror attack happens in India, it attacks Pakistan. Terror attack happens in Pakistan against Navy and PAF personnel, and no action against India. And to add salt to injury, on the one hand Indian foreign minister speaks to SMQ, and on the other hand Modi gives cold shoulder to IK in his swearing in ceremony. And your PM is making excuses that it's just Indian politics. I have said this before: no shame amongst the shameless, no indignity amongst the dishonorable.
> 
> And I can tell you what is the root cause of all this. India has you by the balls in FATF. This terrorist nation that sent Kalbhushan Jadhav, is sitting in the APG, deciding whether Pakistan has done enough against terrorist financing.
> 
> Here is what could be done differently. After Feb 27 when world leaders tried to diffuse tensions, we should have labelled India as an aggressor and demanded a declaration of truce by India. We should then have made the case that this nation is irresponsible and a war monger, and has no place in prestigious bodies such as FATF.
> 
> But we have a lame duck, impotent leadership who are mentally subjugated in front of their Western masters. They just have to say "Jump" and our leadership asks "How high?". That's the real problem.





airomerix said:


> Allow me to address your ignorance.
> 
> lol. PAF has been deterring IAF threats all along the entire border for your kind and incomplete information.
> 
> Since 27th, there have been more than 30 attempts by IAF all along the border with sizeable formations to attempt ingress in Pakistan which have been thwarted successfully. This throws your argument of localised air superiority out of the window.
> 
> Every now and then, your Su-30's and Mirages are hiding behind commercial airliners going north and try to be clever. You dont even know what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> *Good. 27th was like a piece of cake. Nearly took the honour out of the battle. Nearly. *


Sir can you tell me the name of Indian jets who were coming in formations to sialkot, Bahwalpur and other areas on 26th Feb?


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## The Accountant

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Sir can you tell me the name of Indian jets who were coming in formations to sialkot, Bahwalpur and other areas on 26th Feb?


It was all mirages

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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> very now and then, your Su-30's and Mirages are hiding behind commercial airliners going north and try to be clever. You dont even know what you're talking about.


Wow. This is something really huge and interesting
@Windjammer @Maarkhoor @Chhatrapati @Khafee @Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar @Dubious @MastanKhan
@Surya 1 @Tejas Spokesman

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## airomerix

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Wow. This is something really huge and interesting
> @Windjammer @Maarkhoor @Chhatrapati @Khafee @Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar @Dubious @MastanKhan
> @Surya 1 @Tejas Spokesman



It indeed is. This is one of the reason why we're not allowing any traffic from there. They can easily sneak inside Pakistan whilst hiding beneath one of their commercial airliner. 

Knowing Indians, the next thing they'd do is to brag about infiltrating Pakistan. lol.

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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> It indeed is. This is one of the reason why we're not allowing any traffic from there. They can easily sneak inside Pakistan whilst hiding beneath one of their commercial airliner.
> 
> Knowing Indians, the next thing they'd do is to brag about infiltrating Pakistan. lol.


Hmm but how did we know they are hiding behind commercial jets when we have closed our airepace?


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## airomerix

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Hmm but how did we know they are hiding behind commercial jets when we have closed our airepace?



I have small birds whispering in my ear.

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## MastanKhan

airomerix said:


> Allow me to address your ignorance.
> 
> lol. PAF has been deterring IAF threats all along the entire border for your kind and incomplete information.
> 
> Since 27th, there have been more than 30 attempts by IAF all along the border with sizeable formations to attempt ingress in Pakistan which have been thwarted successfully. This throws your argument of localised air superiority out of the window.
> 
> Every now and then, your Su-30's and Mirages are hiding behind commercial airliners going north and try to be clever. You dont even know what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> *Good. 27th was like a piece of cake. Nearly took the honour out of the battle. Nearly. *



Hi,

Korean airliner 747 shot down by russian mig---

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## Ali_Baba

Look at this way, to show how bad IAF did their job. Mirage 2000 of IAF failed to hit their mark. The predecessor of the Mirage 2000, ie the Mirage V all hit their marks. How can anything further highlight the poor training, low human resource quality in the IAF than this fact ?

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## Shane

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Wow. This is something really huge and interesting
> @Windjammer @Maarkhoor @Chhatrapati @Khafee @Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar @Dubious @MastanKhan
> @Surya 1 @Tejas Spokesman





airomerix said:


> It indeed is. This is one of the reason why we're not allowing any traffic from there. They can easily sneak inside Pakistan whilst hiding beneath one of their commercial airliner.
> 
> Knowing Indians, the next thing they'd do is to brag about infiltrating Pakistan. lol.


Your thoughts @airomerix on the possibilities mentioned >here< and >here<.


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## Raider 21

Ali_Baba said:


> Look at this way, to show how bad IAF did their job. Mirage 2000 of IAF failed to hit their mark. The predecessor of the Mirage 2000, ie the Mirage V all hit their marks. How can anything further highlight the poor training, low human resource quality in the IAF than this fact ?


Because it was poorly planned. It could have been a very different case if one of the dropped ordnance hit a house or target.

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## airomerix

Shane said:


> Your thoughts @airomerix on the possibilities mentioned >here< and >here<.



I went through those posts.

Right now there is one route from South East towards North which Indian airliners are using to reach China. There is a diagonal path which heads towards Pakistan for some time. It has happend atleast twice or thrice when IAF jets have broken away from the cover of this commercial jet.

The reason is simple. They know PAF fighters or air defense will not engage them unless they cross into 5 nm of the border. So they are doing all sort of cheap tricks. So following this assumption, they consider the passengers to be safe.

Also during the month of Ramadan they tend to do these exercises since this is the time when they know PAF might not be at its full strength at a given time. Especially closer to Eid. On the night of 27th Ramdan there was some activity of similar nature.

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## Flight of falcon

airomerix said:


> I went through those posts.
> 
> Right now there is one route from South East towards North which Indian airliners are using to reach China. There is a diagonal path which heads towards Pakistan for some time. It has happend atleast twice or thrice when IAF jets have been broken away from the cover of this commercial jet.
> 
> The reason is simple. They know PAF fighters or air defense will not engage them unless they cross into 5 nm of the border. So they are doing all sort of cheap tricks. So following this assumption, they consider the passengers to be safe.
> 
> Also during the month of Ramadan they tend to do these exercises since this is the time when they PAF might not be at its full strength at a given time. Especially closer to Eid. On the night of 27th Ramdan there was some activity of similar nature.





Mighty Indian armed forces have announced five lack Rs reward for finding their AN32. Should we put a reward for their Sukhoi??? 
Let’s do crowd funding

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## GriffinsRule

How can the pathetic AF find a spent AIM-120 missile wreckage in Kashmir within hours but cant seem to find the crash site of a transport plane even after 5 days now!!

Unless ... its a cover story for more Su30 pilots that were shot down on Feb 27th! Hahaha @TheTallGuy

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## The Eagle

Oscar said:


> The way transparency works in India; I doubt we will see anything of that sort especially with their national accountability institutions(historically stronger than hours) being compromised with the current nationalist fervor and political tainting.



How come a fresh MKI can be added without change in number at catalog? Like Vipers have all the trail and can't be replaced without new number. Also, if a damaged MKI still managed to land in one piece, am sure repair work wouldn't be shared at all. In both cases, Indians are in better position to hide except for an Intel leak of MKI being shot and debris seen.

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## airomerix

The Eagle said:


> How come a fresh MKI can be added without change in number at catalog? Like Vipers have all the trail and can't be replaced without new number. Also, if a damaged MKI still managed to land in one piece, am sure repair work wouldn't be shared at all. In both cases, Indians are in better position to hide except for an Intel leak of MKI being shot and debris seen.



It is in the best interest of Russians to let Indians save face. So a fresh MKI addition is not a big deal. Also there are atleast a two dozen airframes still unserviceable of MKI. Any one of those can be repaired and brought back to service. 

Its not the same case with Pakistan. Pak-US relationship is not even close to Indo-US relationship. Let alone Indo-Russia.

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## baqai

@airomerix with recent developments and visible Indian interest and lobby towards America don't you think Russia would be judging the situation with more open frame set of mind


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## airomerix

baqai said:


> @airomerix with recent developments and visible Indian interest and lobby towards America don't you think Russia would be judging the situation with more open frame set of mind


Indians have their eggs in Russian basket too. India is still the second largest importer of arms from Russia. 

Russian economy is struggling. Pakistan cannot be seen as an alternative in terms of economics. Until or unless Russians see value in CPEC. Our only chance. 

The salaries of Indian armed forces exceed our entire defense budget. That is the scale we are talking about.

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## Trailer23



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## The Eagle

airomerix said:


> It is in the best interest of Russians to let Indians save face. So a fresh MKI addition is not a big deal. Also there are atleast a two dozen airframes still unserviceable of MKI. Any one of those can be repaired and brought back to service.
> 
> Its not the same case with Pakistan. Pak-US relationship is not even close to Indo-US relationship. Let alone Indo-Russia.



Exactly.. They have airframes and even, one is done in face saving exercise while there is no counting. Just a matter of time. Interestingly, they didn't even speak of MKI at all and kept quiet over it. Russian FM was in Islamabad on the same day of 27th Feb.

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## usman012



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## Imran Khan

still not a clear PAF HAVE IT


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## bananarepublic

Waw Nyc quality...

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## SHAH820

bananarepublic said:


> View attachment 564973
> 
> Waw Nyc quality...


if you think every one roam around with 8k camera ? i have a bad news for you


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## TOPGUN

Great balls of


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## usman012

bananarepublic said:


> View attachment 564973
> 
> Waw Nyc quality...


This video was made with simple Mobile camera .


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## HawkEye27

Crap


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## bananarepublic

SHAH820 said:


> if you think every one roam around with 8k camera ? i have a bad news for you


Hey I ain't the one calling crappy video from a phone camera HD


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## crankthatskunk

*"this video, planes chasing plane" proves nothing. "Indians response"*

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## Armchair

airomerix said:


> Indians have their eggs in Russian basket too. India is still the second largest importer of arms from Russia.
> 
> Russian economy is struggling. Pakistan cannot be seen as an alternative in terms of economics. Until or unless Russians see value in CPEC. Our only chance.
> 
> The salaries of Indian armed forces exceed our entire defense budget. That is the scale we are talking about.



Aeromerix, this is why Pak should have held a two tier military like Israel, with a conscript force supplementing a professional force. This structural change is a must going forward, if Pak is to remain relevant vis-a-vis a large and increasingly better funded opponent.


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## Army research

Armchair said:


> Aeromerix, this is why Pak should have held a two tier military like Israel, with a conscript force supplementing a professional force. This structural change is a must going forward, if Pak is to remain relevant vis-a-vis a large and increasingly better funded opponent.


We can't do conscription in this country , esxpailly when we already have more volunteers than we can intake ,
What you are saying can be better translated as increasing the eastern rangers like sindh and Punjab to larger forces as the 2nd tier supplemented by other paramilitary


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## Armchair

Army research said:


> We can't do conscription in this country , esxpailly when we already have more volunteers than we can intake ,
> What you are saying can be better translated as increasing the eastern rangers like sindh and Punjab to larger forces as the 2nd tier supplemented by other paramilitary



No, that would cost money, a lot of money. A lot of salaries. A lot of benefits. A lot of retirements. = expensive. 

Conscription is cheap. Much cheaper. Even rich countries like Israel use it effectively. 80% of Israeli forces are conscripts. I am sure they aren't stupid. 

Of course, if you think Pak economy is a vibrant and growing economy that can afford a decent defence budget, continue with this colonial legacy.


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## GiG

Shahzaz ud din said:


> *End of story, Kill confirmed Pakistan shot down Indian Su-30 MKI on 27 Feb*
> Just look at these kill patches put on by PAF & Turkish air force fighter flyers. There is noting more official then this, that PAF officially confirming "indirectly" that on 27th Feb skirmish in kashmir region pakistan shot down indian SU-30 MKI. Only reason for not openly claiming it is probably the stake of Russians as still pakistan & PAF need to have good relations with Russian and we don't want to give them any real embarrassment that their start fighter flanker shot down by JF 17 Block II.
> 
> For people know about armed forces personal, their badges and patches they wear have some real meanings and if your friendly country armed forces personal sporting these kill patches then its some super level of trolling & humiliation which indians just cant expect. Get ready for some "bhajang" of BoycottTurkey from indian side very soon.
> Lastly I must say we need to put that MI 17 helicopter kill confirmed too ....
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> Advertisement


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## ghazi52

Indian Air Force Ouragan aircraft after being forced down by PAF fighters (Shaheens) - 1965








On Sep 3, 1965 IAF Gnat (seen in left along with F-86 Sabre) flown by Sqn Ldr Brijpal Singh Sikand surrenders to PAF’s No.9 F-104 Starfighter during an air combat. The Indian pilot landed aircraft on pasrur airfield near Gujranwala and was taken Prison Of war (POW). Later Sqn Ldr Saad Hatmi flew that captured Gnat from Pusrur to Sargodha, which is now placed in PAF museum in Karachi.







Wreckage of one of four Indian Vampire aircrafts, which were shot down by PAF Shaheens

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## TheTallGuy

This Gnat F1 and F-86F Sabre picture of 1965. Just put a large smile on my face!

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## Talon

Op Swift Retort monument

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## TsAr

Hodor said:


> Op Swift Retort monument
> 
> View attachment 567812


Is this at AHQ?


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## masterchief_mirza

Hodor said:


> Op Swift Retort monument
> 
> View attachment 567812


Nice


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## Ali_Baba

Should imho say, "Together we trained, Together we fought , Together we won"...

(but it nice anyhow!)

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## SQ8

Hodor said:


> Op Swift Retort monument
> 
> View attachment 567812


Now they are overdoing it

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## Riz

Oscar said:


> Now they are overdoing it


Why not??? They made us proud dude.. They deserved alot more then this..

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## aliyusuf

Riz said:


> Why not??? They made us proud dude.. They deserved alot more then this..


Yes. And, they will be asked to do a lot more in the future. We are entering very intriguing times. Filled with threats and challenges from multiple sides/sources, both external and internal. We should not become complacent with this and start patting ourselves on the back. Because, far sterner challenges are coming our way.

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## usman012

JF-17 FLYING OVER KARACHI AT NIGHT AFTER 27TH FEB.

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## SQ8

Riz said:


> Why not??? They made us proud dude.. They deserved alot more then this..


While they are patting their backs and distributing medals, the enemy is hiring experts, manufacturers and buying equipment at a maddening pace to rub the PAF’s face in the mud within the next 2-5 years.

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## Flight of falcon

Oscar said:


> While they are patting their backs and distributing medals, the enemy is hiring experts, manufacturers and buying equipment at a maddening pace to rub the PAF’s face in the mud within the next 2-5 years.




It is absolutely necessary to acknowledge and appreciate the performance of our boys. This is a huge morale booster. Machines don’t win the battle those operating them do. No need not to celebrate and appreciate the amazing performance of our boys. 

As for the new requirement I assure you all out effort is launched to meet new demands of armed forces. I cannot emphasize the importance of Imran's Visit to the USA.

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## Shane

Oscar said:


> While they are patting their backs and distributing medals, the enemy is hiring experts, manufacturers and buying equipment at a maddening pace to rub the PAF’s face in the mud within the next 2-5 years.


Pragmatism over bravado is assumed, if not the norm earlier then it surely is needed more so since Feb27th.

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## SecularNationalist



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## Vortex

Both points of view are totally valid. Our military forces deserves the medals etc for their success but the need *OUR help and support* for the next tango.

If our government could successfully increase the budget, then for sure we could buy more from anyone ready to sell or even better to build more modern toys. But you all knowledgable honorable members know it better than me.

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## Longhorn

SecularNationalist said:


>


We all saw this video in the aftermath of the Pak retaliation.
The point of starting a new thread to repost this video is what?


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## Stealth

"may kaya c Bajwa sekhaygaa hoon araam jay Modi?" 
"aa ki ghusangay aglay ghus kay aa kay ...."
"chapairaaan da maja aya Abhi-None-Done??"

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## SQ8

Flight of falcon said:


> It is absolutely necessary to acknowledge and appreciate the performance of our boys. This is a huge morale booster. Machines don’t win the battle those operating them do. No need not to celebrate and appreciate the amazing performance of our boys.
> 
> As for the new requirement I assure you all out effort is launched to meet new demands of armed forces. I cannot emphasize the importance of Imran's Visit to the USA.


How much acknowledgement is necessary exactly?

It is a great achievement- but will it take up too much funds and time in the acknowledging of this all?

Medals may be ok, but Monuments are not necessary- this should be a “routine” performance and not some extraordinary achievement.

That is the claim made in every media release isn’t it?
The PAF trains to fight outnumbered and outgunned.. well.. they demonstrated their training. Not achieve some impossible task.

A balance is needed to avoid those 10% who let this go to their heads.

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## Flight of falcon

Oscar said:


> How much acknowledgement is necessary exactly?
> 
> It is a great achievement- but will it take up too much funds and time in the acknowledging of this all?
> 
> Medals may be ok, but Monuments are not necessary- this should be a “routine” performance and not some extraordinary achievement.
> 
> That is the claim made in every media release isn’t it?
> The PAF trains to fight outnumbered and outgunned.. well.. they demonstrated their training. Not achieve some impossible task.
> 
> A balance is needed to avoid those 10% who let this go to their heads.




No you are absolutely wrong on every level.

Monument : a small display wall with
Few lines engraved is not waste of money. It is a monument to our achievement and for people to remember and feel proud about. 

This event did not involve two pilots and four planes. A lot of planning and resources were put into to pull this spectacular event. Many squadrons, types of planes and specialties were involved. They all need to be acknowledged and celebrated.

All this show of support and celebration is important to boost the morale of soldiers and the country as well . 

I don’t see any money being wasted on special fly pasts or on TV adds etc. 

I believe everyone involved will work extra hard next time knowing how their work was appreciated and celebrated .

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## Talon

Flight of falcon said:


> No you are absolutely wrong on every level.


You just cant say to this @Oscar .He knows more than most people around here and he always talks with logic.He is not MK Baba so I wouldn't argue with @Oscar ,same advice to you.

And he's completely right... even parties and functions were and are still being held at airbases in regards to 27th Feb.

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## airomerix

I think all 4 missiles of the bison should be displayed outside Indian consulate. It wouldnt hurt anybody. Except the indians.

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## SQ8

Hodor said:


> You just cant say to this @Oscar .He knows more than most people around here and he always talks with logic.He is not MK Baba so I wouldn't argue with @Oscar ,same advice to you.
> 
> And he's completely right... even parties and functions were and are still being held at airbases in regards to 27th Feb.


What I warn is the same thing we as a nation dive into: premature celebrations.

Be it some oil discovery, airstrike or Cricket wins.

In this case the parties need to stop and those expenses and *TIME* focused on how to counter a ASRAAM integration(_although frankly the IAF is “wasting” money with that since the R-73M2 is a good weapon.. they just never got a chance to employ it_) or a I-derby with the MKI.

To give a movie analogy, the PAF may end up acting like Rocky prior to his tussle with Mr.T in Rocky III.. and we may not have a eye of the tiger soundtrack to help out in that case.



airomerix said:


> I think all 4 missiles of the bison should be displayed outside Indian consulate. It wouldnt hurt anybody. Except the indians.


Indian state maybe, their populous is too busy swapping the same tripe and regurgitated lies that they couldn’t care or will just ban images of it.

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## messiach

Less than that.


Oscar said:


> While they are patting their backs and distributing medals, the enemy is hiring experts, manufacturers and buying equipment at a maddening pace to rub the PAF’s face in the mud within the next 2-5 years.

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## Flight of falcon

I never said stop Preparing for the next battle or underestimate your enemy. As a Muslim I am required always to be prepared for the enemy and never to let my guards down. 
We are facing an enemy that is many times more powerful than us both numerically and economically. So yes we need to keep improving and training. 
Indian morale is at the rock bottom. I don’t care what they hear in the media but truth cannot be hidden for too long and they know how they got spanked.

In the military nothing matters more than the superior showing up to say job well done and giving pat on your back. That’s all the military brass is doing to the soldiers and they have earned it.

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## SQ8

messiach said:


> Less than that.


And its time the shahbash brigade gets a little humble.. instead of repeating “We are extremely humble” while in full dress and consuming tikkas.


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## Flight of falcon

Oscar said:


> And its time the shahbash brigade gets a little humble.. instead of repeating “We are extremely humble” while in full dress and consuming tikkas.




Didn’t know getting to eat occasional tikka in full dress is a sign of arrogance.


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## Humble Analyst

Flight of falcon said:


> It is absolutely necessary to acknowledge and appreciate the performance of our boys. This is a huge morale booster. Machines don’t win the battle those operating them do. No need not to celebrate and appreciate the amazing performance of our boys.
> 
> As for the new requirement I assure you all out effort is launched to meet new demands of armed forces. I cannot emphasize the importance of Imran's Visit to the USA.


I am not so sure how you can emphasise so much on Imran’s visit to US.
USA is trying to sell India 110 fighters and India has acquired a lot of military hardware from US pausing cash then why would they sell a 8 to 12 pieces of planes and loose bigger cash deals.
The ways Pakistan can get something big from US is to give something really big in return.

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## Ahmet Pasha

@Oscar 
U r right. We need to get back to business as usual. And step up acquisition plans and battle readiness. Enemy is going absolutely bonkers in it's desire to obliterate Pakistan.


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## Flight of falcon

Yes and we will offer something big..... 

illusion of success to Trump and his way out of this expensive quagmire in Afghanistan. 

Trump wants something big on the international front before his re-election campaign. Either North Korean nuclear deal or Afghanistan pull out. 

He knows North Koreans are not delivering so his best bet is to work with Pakistan. 

Americans are not afraid to sell to Pakistan. They know Indians love their high tech equipment and will simply not find anything better. Name one maritime patrol aircraft better than Poseidon. Indians have no plans to pick F16 as their next fighter and Americans are more about saving jobs than caring what India demands. 
Pakistan needs to hire a good lobbying firm and launch a PR campaign to high lights their role in bringing Talibans to the table.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Plz spare us the Peace Gate trickery and gimmicks.


Flight of falcon said:


> Yes and we will offer something big.....
> 
> illusion of success to Trump and his way out of this expensive quagmire in Afghanistan.
> 
> Trump wants something big on the international front before his re-election campaign. Either North Korean nuclear deal or Afghanistan pull out.
> 
> He knows North Koreans are not delivering so his best bet is to work with Pakistan.
> 
> Americans are not afraid to sell to Pakistan. They know Indians love their high tech equipment and will simply not find anything better. Name one maritime patrol aircraft better than Poseidon. Indians have no plans to pick F16 as their next fighter and Americans are more about saving jobs than caring what India demands.
> Pakistan needs to hire a good lobbying firm and launch a PR campaign to high lights their role in bringing Talibans to the table.

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## Humble Analyst

Let us move on and prepare for the bigger challenges lying ahead of Pakistan Air Force

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## Flight of falcon

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Plz spare us the Peace Gate trickery and gimmicks.




There is no trickery. It is a trade off countries make and rely on to make strategic decisions. Americans have to think what is in their best interest and we need what is good for us. We don’t have oil or rare earth metals to trade but we sure have the say over what happens in that part of the world. We have to make a strategic shift now or I am afraid that the dogs we raised will one day turn against us and bite us. Why not sell them before that for some Top of the line F16s!


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## Thorough Pro

For US, war on terror is now obsolete. Afghanistan is not a core issue and Pakistan is in no position to offer anything on Afghanistan as we have no influence on Taliban, besides there is no benefit in becoming guarantor on anything "Afghan", as they are most unpredictable and if anything goes wrong, and many things will go wring, Pakistan will be blamed. Its better for Pakistan to keep clear of Afghanistan and participate only to the extent of repatriating afghan refugees from Pakistan and restrict/eliminate Indian role in Afghanistan.

I am not sure what was North Korea supposed to deliver other than abandon their nuclear weapons and capability? 

The hot issue for US these days is maintaining its super power status in the world which is challenged by China and Pakistan being a close friend and ally of China, US is now fully aligned with India to checkmate China and thus Pakistan has no place in US foreign strategy anymore except as a thorn in Indian backside in it's "alleged" efforts to confront China.

"I say Alleged", becuase India is owned by Baniyas who are milking all three US, China and Russia and will/can never pose a military threat to China. 

SO US in the near future will keep feeding India in the hopes of it countering China, while India will keep complaining to US about Pakistan, and US will keep pressuring paksitan while Indians will enjoy the best of both worlds until US realizes (in the next 10/15 years) that it had been had by the Indians and by that time China would already be a super power. 





Flight of falcon said:


> Yes and we will offer something big.....
> 
> illusion of success to Trump and his way out of this expensive quagmire in Afghanistan.
> 
> Trump wants something big on the international front before his re-election campaign. Either North Korean nuclear deal or Afghanistan pull out.
> 
> He knows North Koreans are not delivering so his best bet is to work with Pakistan.
> 
> Americans are not afraid to sell to Pakistan. They know Indians love their high tech equipment and will simply not find anything better. Name one maritime patrol aircraft better than Poseidon. Indians have no plans to pick F16 as their next fighter and Americans are more about saving jobs than caring what India demands.
> Pakistan needs to hire a good lobbying firm and launch a PR campaign to high lights their role in bringing Talibans to the table.

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## SQ8

Flight of falcon said:


> Didn’t know getting to eat occasional tikka in full dress is a sign of arrogance.


Arrogance isn’t the issue, ignorance is, apathy is. 
A minor victory with a force outnumbering the enemy 4:1 isn’t something to waste time beating drums about. 

Yes, you achieved the element of surprise and established air superiority over an arrogant enemy..

Guess what? While the patting of backs is happening here they are baying for your blood with MUCH deeper pockets of resources and MUCH more experienced teachers helping them.

This isn’t the bureaucratic checks and balances India, this is a fascist government run India wanting blood to save face. They will bypass the usual modis operandi and get the weapons, training and tactics they need by hook or by crook to smash your face in.
They will sponsor terrorism against your assets, they will try to block all diplomatic support, they will learn everything about your systems and how to negate them. They did that in 71 while your hapless radar coverage couldn’t do squat and they ran circles around the interceptors while they showed off their improved bombing.

The sooner that is realized and focused on , the better it is. Swift Retort is is four months ago.. but Venomous Vengeance could be much closer than thought.

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## thinkingcap81

Oscar said:


> This isn’t the bureaucratic checks and balances India, this is a fascist government run India wanting blood to save face.


No need to save face from the public when the narrative here is than of no MKI but an F-16, unless you are referring to the armed forces if they desire a comeback.



Oscar said:


> They will bypass the usual modis operandi and get the weapons, training and tactics they need by hook or by crook to smash your face in.


Plausible, but not soon as our economy is not in the pink of health.


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## Talon

messiach said:


> Less than that.


PAF believes the same.


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## MastanKhan

Flight of falcon said:


> Yes and we will offer something big.....
> 
> illusion of success to Trump and his way out of this expensive quagmire in Afghanistan.
> 
> Trump wants something big on the international front before his re-election campaign. Either North Korean nuclear deal or Afghanistan pull out.
> 
> He knows North Koreans are not delivering so his best bet is to work with Pakistan.
> 
> Americans are not afraid to sell to Pakistan. They know Indians love their high tech equipment and will simply not find anything better. Name one maritime patrol aircraft better than Poseidon. Indians have no plans to pick F16 as their next fighter and Americans are more about saving jobs than caring what India demands.
> Pakistan needs to hire a good lobbying firm and launch a PR campaign to high lights their role in bringing Talibans to the table.



Hi,

Pakistan is a 'dead duck' for the US---. Pakistan is done and suted---. No amount of PR would do any good to pakistan's image---only but one---.

Pakistan's military will have to charge the Paf air chief---Gen Pash and COAS Gen Kiyani in connivance with the US agency to get OBL---be a partner in operation---charge them for the crime---give them death penalty and hang all three of them---.

That will create shock waves in the american public---that would be your narrative to the american public---look---we pakistanis helped you in finding and getting OBL---but our 3 generals deceived us---the whole nation by keeping quiet to save themselves from the revenge of the al qaeda---.

That will shake up whole of the world---. That is the only way out---.

The problem with the US is not with agreeing to sell---but the problem is that any congressman or a senator can get up and start a resolution to put sanctions on the equipment moments before the delivery---.

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## Avicenna

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Pakistan is a 'dead duck' for the US---. Pakistan is done and suted---. No amount of PR would do any good to pakistan's image---only but one---.
> 
> Pakistan's military will have to charge the Paf air chief---Gen Pash and COAS Gen Kiyani in connivance with the US agency to get OBL---be a partner in operation---charge them for the crime---give them death penalty and hang all three of them---.
> 
> That will create shock waves in the american public---that would be your narrative to the american public---look---we pakistanis helped you in finding and getting OBL---but our 3 generals deceived us---the whole nation by keeping quiet to save themselves from the revenge of the al qaeda---.
> 
> That will shake up whole of the world---. That is the only way out---.
> 
> The problem with the US is not with agreeing to sell---but the problem is that any congressman or a senator can get up and start a resolution to put sanctions on the equipment moments before the delivery---.



Giving you the benefit of the doubt about your previous post, even if Pakistan were to do such a thing it’s still a dead duck to the US.

Any goodies would be transient and transactional in nature.

But it would be going against the trend which is emerging in the US China showdown.

Long term Pakistan is definitely in the China camp.

And going forward this will shape US policy to all relevant nations.

The US has clearly chosen India in its Indo Pacific strategy.

Pakistan might as well accept it and plan accordingly.

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## MastanKhan

Avicenna said:


> Giving you the benefit of the doubt about your previous post, even if Pakistan were to do such a thing it’s still a dead duck to the US.
> 
> Any goodies would be transient and transactional in nature.
> 
> But it would be going against the trend which is emerging in the US China showdown.
> 
> Long term Pakistan is definitely in the China camp.
> 
> And going forward this will shape US policy to all relevant nations.
> 
> The US has clearly chosen India in its Indo Pacific strategy.
> 
> Pakistan might as well accept it and plan accordingly.



Hi,

You are correct---. But that would shock the american public immensely---and in future anything negative about pakistan would not be easily accepted by the US public---even if it came from the US senate or the US congress or the US president---.

But the million dollar question is---does the Pak military have the Cojones to do it----.

Does 3 pak military generals have the cojones to sacrifice their lives for pakistan to bring back back the image of pakistan---.



Flight of falcon said:


> Yes and we will offer something big.....
> 
> illusion of success to Trump and his way out of this expensive quagmire in Afghanistan.
> 
> Trump wants something big on the international front before his re-election campaign. Either North Korean nuclear deal or Afghanistan pull out.
> 
> He knows North Koreans are not delivering so his best bet is to work with Pakistan.
> 
> Americans are not afraid to sell to Pakistan. They know Indians love their high tech equipment and will simply not find anything better. Name one maritime patrol aircraft better than Poseidon. Indians have no plans to pick F16 as their next fighter and Americans are more about saving jobs than caring what India demands.
> Pakistan needs to hire a good lobbying firm and launch a PR campaign to high lights their role in bringing Talibans to the table.



Hi,

You know what---america can also say---go screw yourself---here is AFG---we are gone---enjoy your misery---.

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## Avicenna

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You are correct---. But that would shock the american public immensely---and in future anything negative about pakistan would not be easily accepted by the US public---even if it came from the US senate or the US congress or the US president---.
> 
> But the million dollar question is---does the Pak military have the Cojones to do it----.
> 
> Does 3 pak military generals have the cojones to sacrifice their lives for pakistan to bring back back the image of pakistan---.



The US public is fickle. (And immensely ignorant as you know)

In any case, like I said any such action by Pakistan would have short lived positive effects on the relationship.

In tangible terms perhaps release of the V upgrade for the F-16s?

Maybe some new examples.

And then comes the next excuse for the US to pull the rug......

Look at what they are doing with Turkey.

Which is why I am saying perhaps it’s better for Pakistan to acknowledge the reality NOW and strategically plan accordingly.

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## MastanKhan

Avicenna said:


> The US public is fickle. (And immensely ignorant as you know)
> 
> In any case, like I said any such action by Pakistan would have short lived positive effects on the relationship.
> 
> In tangible terms perhaps release of the V upgrade for the F-16s?
> 
> Maybe some new examples.
> 
> And then comes the next excuse for the US to pull the rug......
> 
> Look what they are doing with Turkey.
> 
> Which is why I am saying perhaps it’s better for Pakistan to acknowledge the reality NOW and strategically plan accordingly.



Hi,

Turkey fckd up bad---. They just took a stupid stand for not releasing an american priest or someone---. They may have had other beef with the americans---but this was really not very intelligent of Erdogan---trying to declare him a spy of Gullen---was not worth it---.

Now he is going after the S400---. The S400 is not worth losing the F35 aircraft deal---. Get the F35 now---and then get the Patriot---.

Erdogan needs to learn to bring the temperature down---he is further stoking the fires---.

The loss of the F35 would be a big tactical loss to Turkey---.

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## Avicenna

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Turkey fckd up bad---. They just took a stupid stand for not releasing an american priest or someone---. They may have had other beef with the americans---but this was really not very intelligent of Erdogan---trying to declare him a spy of Gullen---was not worth it---.
> 
> Now he is going after the S400---. The S400 is not worth losing the F35 aircraft deal---. Get the F35 now---and then get the Patriot---.
> 
> Erdogan needs to learn to bring the temperature down---he is further stoking the fires---.
> 
> The loss of the F35 would be a big tactical loss to Turkey---.



Yea I agree somewhat.

Erdogan seems to be hot headed or at least not polished.

I seem to recall him leaving Muhammad Ali’s funeral events early because of a perceived slight.

In any case, yea not getting the F-35 is a problem.

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## baqai

airomerix said:


> I think all 4 missiles of the bison should be displayed outside Indian consulate. It wouldnt hurt anybody. Except the indians.



muhahahahahahahaha maybe have four missles as embossed emblem for all official eid and other greeting cards send to all dignitaries or something like that ... 

Have a big banner / monument in front of embassy with word BURN on it along with a cup of tea


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## Flight of falcon

Turkey was doing exceptionally well until Mr President started to have tantrums. 
Turkey suffered billions of dollars losses because of this priest episode. It wasn’t worth a dime to pick fight over a worthless priest but he did. Resulting threats of sanctions and fight over the central bank interest rate determination destroyed Turkey’s economy.

I am doing a project with some Turkish group and they abandoned their 10 million dollars villa project along the Mediterranean coast and moved to Canada because of the policies of present government. There are many more like them:

Missing out on F23 for S400 to me is another huge stupidity.

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## ziaulislam

Its all about getting a lobbying firm which which will than approach senators from f16 job areas and LM and use that case



Flight of falcon said:


> Yes and we will offer something big.....
> 
> illusion of success to Trump and his way out of this expensive quagmire in Afghanistan.
> 
> Trump wants something big on the international front before his re-election campaign. Either North Korean nuclear deal or Afghanistan pull out.
> 
> He knows North Koreans are not delivering so his best bet is to work with Pakistan.
> 
> Americans are not afraid to sell to Pakistan. They know Indians love their high tech equipment and will simply not find anything better. Name one maritime patrol aircraft better than Poseidon. Indians have no plans to pick F16 as their next fighter and Americans are more about saving jobs than caring what India demands.
> Pakistan needs to hire a good lobbying firm and launch a PR campaign to high lights their role in bringing Talibans to the table.


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## messiach

Ab tikkay to bantay hain. Tikkat na eato to phir kia eato. 



Oscar said:


> And its time the shahbash brigade gets a little humble.. instead of repeating “We are extremely humble” while in full dress and consuming tikkas.





Oscar said:


> And its time the shahbash brigade gets a little humble.. instead of repeating “We are extremely humble” while in full dress and consuming tikkas.

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## MastanKhan

Flight of falcon said:


> Turkey was doing exceptionally well until Mr President started to have tantrums.
> Turkey suffered billions of dollars losses because of this priest episode. It wasn’t worth a dime to pick fight over a worthless priest but he did. Resulting threats of sanctions and fight over the central bank interest rate determination destroyed Turkey’s economy.
> 
> I am doing a project with some Turkish group and they abandoned their 10 million dollars villa project along the Mediterranean coast and moved to Canada because of the policies of present government. There are many more like them:
> 
> Missing out on F23 for S400 to me is another huge stupidity.



Hi,

That Priest issue was outrageous---. 

Just by reading the general news and listening to the media---it was obvious to me that Turkey was taking the wrong direction in this case of holding the Priest---.

Erdogan's stance surprised me---F35 was and is more important than the S400 any day---.

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## SQ8

messiach said:


> Ab tikkay to bantay hain. Tikkat na eato to phir kia eato.


If only the Indians had dropped a cluster bomb unit with Tikkas on our bases prior to the attack they would have complete air dominance.

We should be glad we were able to surprise them. Had we encountered their full readiness like they put up after their strike; the losses could have been different for both.


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## YeBeWarned

Oscar said:


> If only the Indians had dropped a cluster bomb unit with Tikkas on our bases prior to the attack they would have complete air dominance.
> 
> We should be glad we were able to surprise them. Had we encountered their full readiness like they put up after their strike; the losses could have been different for both.



Indians were arrogant , and they still are and will always remain cause for them Pakistan is some puny nation with weak military and people, their mentality can easily be seen in their movies, where one hero comes in Pakistan and kill thousands of Pakistan, so their General public believe that Pakistan stand no chance against them . That seems to be the reason we' Surprised them .

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## Telescopic Sight

Starlord said:


> Indians were arrogant , and they still are and will always remain cause for them Pakistan is some puny nation with weak military and people, their mentality can easily be seen in their movies, where one hero comes in Pakistan and kill thousands of Pakistan, so their General public believe that Pakistan stand no chance against them . That seems to be the reason we' Surprised them .



You are judging an Air Force and a nation based on Hindi films? Nice.


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## messiach

As my grandson says, Yeh Baat.


Oscar said:


> If only the Indians had dropped a cluster bomb unit with Tikkas on our bases prior to the attack they would have complete air dominance.



As long as we keep 360 deg SA, we are fine. The problem will come with a multi-centric attack, which is well expected.


Oscar said:


> We should be glad we were able to surprise them. Had we encountered their full readiness like they put up after their strike; the losses could have been different for both.

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## SQ8

Starlord said:


> Indians were arrogant , and they still are and will always remain cause for them Pakistan is some puny nation with weak military and people, their mentality can easily be seen in their movies, where one hero comes in Pakistan and kill thousands of Pakistan, so their General public believe that Pakistan stand no chance against them . That seems to be the reason we' Surprised them .


We thought that in 71 and Kargil.
The result is clear.

Im not berating the performance of the 27th as much as raising alarm of not letting the celebrations get the better of our alertness and judgement.

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## Flight of falcon

Oscar said:


> We thought that in 71 and Kargil.
> The result is clear.
> 
> Im not berating the performance of the 27th as much as raising alarm of not letting the celebrations get the better of our alertness and judgement.




You emphasize too much on celebrations. 
Could you please point out specific events that you feel are over done in terms of celebrations.
Isn’t visiting different squadrons a routine normal thing for the air brass. 
I don’t see cheer leaders lined up outside airbases or fire works exploding... 

What makes you think PAF is not working hard and reinforcing their tactics quietly?

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## Khafee

Starlord said:


> Indians were arrogant , and they still are and will always remain cause for them Pakistan is some puny nation with weak military and people, their mentality can easily be seen in their movies, where one hero comes in Pakistan and kill thousands of Pakistan, so their General public believe that Pakistan stand no chance against them . *That seems to be the reason we' Surprised them* .



They weren't expecting PAF to give them a bloody nose, and kick them between their legs as well - hence their Surprise. 

The israeli missiles were recovered intact, just like their "pilots" with the exception of one.

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## Vortex

I remember having seen a documentary about the Arabs / Israelis war. It was stated that a group of Egyptian soldiers were celebrating a victory over some Israelis soldiers. They were singing and dancing.... they didn’t realised that a another group of Israelis soldiers were coming... you can imagine that what was expected occurred. All the celebrating Egyptians soldiers were all decimated.

I don’t know if this is true event or not. But it was broadcasted in french tv channel more than a decade ago. I don’t remember details, the names of high officers nor where and when exactly that happened.

But this event shows that celebrating something over and over could/will lead to disaster in very short time.

As you say in English : my 2 cents. I will « pakistanise » it into « yeh meray 2 anays ! »

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## Thorough Pro

People keep saying that despite knowing that you don't save save something that you don't have .... 



thinkingcap81 said:


> No need to save face ....

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## YeBeWarned

Oscar said:


> We thought that in 71 and Kargil.
> The result is clear.
> 
> Im not berating the performance of the 27th as much as raising alarm of not letting the celebrations get the better of our alertness and judgement.



Of course the results were horrible in those wars/Conflicts but back than our enemy wasn't that Arrogant , years of brain washing of their media about Pakistan, and how weak it is creates the sense of power that they can triumph Pakistan anytime they want. Its like saying Underestimating your enemy can be your biggest mistake and that is what India did on 27th feb, All i am saying that I am hoping Indians to keep doing this mistake again and again .



Oscar said:


> We thought that in 71 and Kargil.
> The result is clear.
> 
> Im not berating the performance of the 27th as much as raising alarm of not letting the celebrations get the better of our alertness and judgement.



Of course the results were horrible in those wars/Conflicts but back than our enemy wasn't that Arrogant , years of brain washing of their media about Pakistan, and how weak it is creates the sense of power that they can triumph Pakistan anytime they want. Its like saying Underestimating your enemy can be your biggest mistake and that is what India did on 27th feb, All i am saying that I am hoping Indians to keep doing this mistake again and again .



Khafee said:


> They weren't expecting PAF to give them a bloody nose, and kick them between their legs as well - hence their Surprise.
> 
> The israeli missiles were recovered intact, just like their "pilots" with the exception of one.



That is what I was telling Oscar , that their arrogant and brain washing over the years makes them blind , they initiate the Balakot Strike by thinking it would be a piece of cake, and Pakistan will be caught off guarded , but we were alert and chase them until they drop their load and run . Next Mistake, despite ISPR issuing a firm warning in a Press briefing , we will surprise you they weren't ready or should i say not enough ready, Pakistan can hardly defeat India in a All out war that is what i think but Allah has bless us with a arrogant enemy who is bound to make more mistakes in future conflicts .



Telescopic Sight said:


> You are judging an Air Force and a nation based on Hindi films? Nice.



I am not judging a Air Force, I am Judging the Indian Mindset which i know is been brainwashed to believe that defeating Pakistan will be a piece of cake for them, they learn their lesson the hard way, by loosing 2 of theirs Jets and one pilot captured .

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## Trailer23

Khafee said:


> They weren't expecting PAF to give them a bloody nose, and kick them between their legs as well - hence their Surprise.
> 
> The israeli missiles were recovered intact, just like their "pilots" with the exception of one.


Nice to see posts from you so soon.

I was about to send a carton of (sympathy) Mangoes via Aramex. I guess I dodged a bullet.

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## aliyusuf

Something @MastanKhan Sahib has said in the past, something like, if we succeed in shooting down their MKI(s) then they will be taken aback and have all their bravado knocked out of them.

Well the lack of further attempts by the IAF to engage the PAF, definitely suggests that the Indians were not only taken aback but they were forced to rethink their entire game plan.

The subsequent air-drills including scores of fighters and planned purchases of Israeli BVR missiles and re-rejuvenating the fabled MMRCA tender etc all attest to that fact.

But that does not in anyway mean that their confidence or self belief has been rattled or anything. Because to think that would be a folly and self deception.

Loss of a few aircrafts does not by any means diminish the overall might and the fighting power of the Indian armed forces.

Yes it does show that they are not as awesome as they believed they were, which we knew already, as well as one on one they still might not be a match (arguably) to our forces.

But it is a huge force. With a lot of material, man and financial power. Just imagine the scenario in which they can swoop in from dozens of different sides & places with hundreds of fighters in batches 8 or more? PAF would have their work cutout for them (to say the least).

Also in the words of Soviet General Georgy Zhukov (of WWII fame) "You can never underestimate the quality of quantity".

So in that context, the argument being put forward by some, like @araz Sahib, that we should have hit harder and negotiated for more during and after the 27th Feb encounter, is fraught with the perils of starting something that we cannot guarantee to finish favorably for ourselves.

That is just my opinion.

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## Bratva

messiach said:


> Ab tikkay to bantay hain. Tikkat na eato to phir kia eato.





Oscar said:


> If only the Indians had dropped a cluster bomb unit with Tikkas on our bases prior to the attack they would have complete air dominance.
> 
> We should be glad we were able to surprise them. Had we encountered their full readiness like they put up after their strike; the losses could have been different for both.





Oscar said:


> We thought that in 71 and Kargil.
> The result is clear.
> 
> Im not berating the performance of the 27th as much as raising alarm of not letting the celebrations get the better of our alertness and judgement.



IAF were able to surprise us and intrude 6-7 NM in Pakistan on 26th FEB because of the same multi centric intrusion at multiple sectors and finding no CAP over Balakot or kashmir Sector, Intruded, dropped bombs and ran away

Indians exposed a weakness in our Air defenses. That even in High Alert Status, there is no constant CAP all over Pakistan, heck even our AWAC wont be covering all the Pakistan in High Alert status.

That weakness needs to be plugged in and Pakistan has to prepare for multi centric attack or else Next Balakot will happen once again.

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## Maarkhoor

Bratva said:


> IAF were able to surprise us and intrude 6-7 NM in Pakistan on 26th FEB because of the same multi centric intrusion at multiple sectors and finding no CAP over Balakot or kashmir Sector, Intruded, dropped bombs and ran away
> 
> Indians exposed a weakness in our Air defenses. That even in High Alert Status, there is no constant CAP all over Pakistan, heck even our AWAC wont be covering all the Pakistan in High Alert status.
> 
> That weakness needs to be plugged in and Pakistan has to prepare for multi centric attack or else Next Balakot will happen once again.


Bro 6 or 7 KMS are nothing when jets intrude and leave super sonic even mighty US can't do anything.

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## SIPRA

aliyusuf said:


> Something @MastanKhan Sahib has said in the past, something like, if we succeed in shooting down their MKI(s) then they will be taken aback and have all their bravado knocked out of them.
> 
> Well the lack of further attempts by the IAF to engage the PAF, definitely suggests that the Indians were not only taken aback but they were forced to rethink their entire game plan.
> 
> The subsequent air-drills including scores of fighters and planned purchases of Israeli BVR missiles and re-rejuvenating the fabled MMRCA tender etc all attest to that fact.
> 
> But that does not in anyway mean that their confidence or self belief has been rattled or anything. Because to think that would be a folly and self deception.
> 
> Loss of a few aircrafts does not by any means diminish the overall might and the fighting power of the Indian armed forces.
> 
> Yes it does show that they are not as awesome as they believed they were, which we knew already, as well as one on one they still might not be a match (arguably) to our forces.
> 
> But it is a huge force. With a lot of material, man and financial power. Just imagine the scenario in which they can swoop in from dozens of different sides & places with hundreds of fighters in batches 8 or more? PAF would have their work cutout for them (to say the least).
> 
> Also in the words of Soviet General Georgy Zhukov (of WWII fame) "You can never underestimate the quality of quantity".
> 
> So in that context, the argument being put forward by some, like @araz Sahib, that we should have hit harder and negotiated for more during and after the 27th Feb encounter, is fraught with the perils of starting something that we cannot guarantee to finish favorably for ourselves.
> 
> That is just my opinion.



Fully agree.

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## loanranger

Every one talks of how we shot down planes but no one talks about how they got in the day before and how to fix that. We exposed their air defenses too the next day so it's a problem for both.....

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## Bratva

Maarkhoor said:


> *Bro 6 or 7 KMS are nothing* when jets intrude and leave super sonic even mighty US can't do anything.




It wasn't 6 or 7 KM. They intruded 11-12 KM Inside Pakistan. That too After crossing the 10 KM Air Identification Zone from Indian side Which is enforced on both side of border. And If you are in the zone, You'll warn them to turn back. What Pakistani Radars and AWACS were doing at Kashmir sector at that time that couldn't detect a large formation and send a large CAP at Kashmir sector at that time ? instead of a standard 2 Jet CAP which couldn't intercept the IAF Strike package

DG ISPR said, Indians distracted PAF with Multiple Intursion attempts at 3 sectors. 

These are the underlying weaknesses in PAF Air defenses that needs to be analyzed and plugged in thoroughly or God Forbid, Next Multi Centric Attack and PAF won't be able to defend simultaneously all the Sectors !

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## Chanakyaa

Oscar said:


> If only the Indians had dropped a cluster bomb unit with Tikkas on our bases prior to the attack they would have complete air dominance.
> 
> We should be glad we were able to surprise them. Had we encountered their full readiness like they put up after their strike; the losses could have been different for both.



The attack carried by PAK can be carried by PAF can be done each day... even Today. It has nothing to do with "Readiness" of IAF.

Stay in your Airspace, Drop standoff weapons.. Leave. Well.. even then IAF chased back the intruders which PAF failed to do on 26th.



loanranger said:


> Every one talks of how we shot down planes but no one talks about how they got in the day before and how to fix that. We exposed their air defenses too the next day so it's a problem for both.....



Well, where was the exposure/surprise ? As per ISPR, you never crossed LoC. I think they did, thats why Abhi chased the F16s.But if you aregetting chased back where was the surprise in the first place ?

India did the same on 26 with no movement from PAF. No retaliation.

Ofcourse they did scramble just like they did when US crossed and took OBL.


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## Khafee

Oscar said:


> And its time the shahbash brigade gets a little humble.. instead of repeating “We are extremely humble” while in full dress and consuming tikkas.


People consuming tikkas in underwear is never a good idea.

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## Keysersoze

XiNiX said:


> Stay in your Airspace, Drop standoff weapons.. Leave. Well.. even then IAF chased back the intruders which PAF failed to do on 26th.


Quick question then if the PAF failed to chase the IAF planes. Why did they miss?[/QUOTE]

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## PakSword

Khafee said:


> tikkas in underwear.




Or even without that..

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## SQ8

XiNiX said:


> The attack carried by PAK can be carried by PAF can be done each day... even Today. It has nothing to do with "Readiness" of IAF.
> 
> Stay in your Airspace, Drop standoff weapons.. Leave. Well.. even then IAF chased back the intruders which PAF failed to do on 26th.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, where was the exposure/surprise ? As per ISPR, you never crossed LoC. I think they did, thats why Abhi chased the F16s.But if you aregetting chased back where was the surprise in the first place ?
> 
> India did the same on 26 with no movement from PAF. No retaliation.
> 
> Ofcourse they did scramble just like they did when US crossed and took OBL.


Ahan, if that is your perception then you are entitled to it. The story was different and sources respected by you on other avenues have laid it out clearly.

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## Khafee

Keysersoze said:


> Quick question then if the PAF failed to chase the IAF planes. Why did they miss?


Just speculating here, Vedic clouds?

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## Humble Analyst

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Turkey fckd up bad---. They just took a stupid stand for not releasing an american priest or someone---. They may have had other beef with the americans---but this was really not very intelligent of Erdogan---trying to declare him a spy of Gullen---was not worth it---.
> 
> Now he is going after the S400---. The S400 is not worth losing the F35 aircraft deal---. Get the F35 now---and then get the Patriot---.
> 
> Erdogan needs to learn to bring the temperature down---he is further stoking the fires---.
> 
> The loss of the F35 would be a big tactical loss to Turkey---.


It all started with the flotilla aid to Ghaza resulting in diplomatic row with Israel and the Armenia thing has been brought up sometimes ago. Turkey was not happy with the support for Kurds and protested it. Turkey was unhappy with the coup attempt. During Erdogan’s visit his security manhandled Golan supporters in D.C. who were protesting Erdogans visit.
So this has been coming and I do not see it getting better in the near future.

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## loanranger

XiNiX said:


> But if you aregetting chased back where was the surprise in the first place ?
> 
> India did the same on 26 with no movement from PAF. No retaliation.
> 
> Ofcourse they did scramble just like they did when US crossed and took OBL.


Please stop this nonsense. First of all the PAF response time is under 3 to 5 minutes. And the US marines were inside for 40 to 50 mins and they managed to crash one of their stealth helis straight out Area 51 and still get out stinks heavily of the fact EVERY ONE KNEW.
Second of all the surprise was targeting REAL TERORIST CAMPS INSIDE IOK CALLED BRIGADE HEADQUARTERS amongst others. Abhinandan was just a bonus. Tell me what happened to Abhinandans wingman isn't there an SOP in IAF that the wingman stays overhead until they locate their man?
Thirdly we did not come the same night as that was when you were expecting us otherwise our fate might have been similar to Abhinandans. Thus we surprised you the following day.....
Oh and congrats you lost in the semis....karma is a funny thing....

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## Khafee

Nikhil Jhariya said:


> GPS targetting error.
> There is a difference in measurement of elevation of the target by 33m in Indian Aeronautical charts and that measured by GPS. Spice 2000 which uses GPS was fed with data from Indian aeronautical charts which uses a different datum.
> 
> https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/indias-strike-on-balakot-a-very-precise-miss/



Whose fault is that? PAF or ISI?

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## masterchief_mirza

XiNiX said:


> The attack carried by PAK can be carried by PAF can be done each day... even Today. It has nothing to do with "Readiness" of IAF.
> 
> Stay in your Airspace, Drop standoff weapons.. Leave. Well.. even then IAF chased back the intruders which PAF failed to do on 26th.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, where was the exposure/surprise ? As per ISPR, you never crossed LoC. I think they did, thats why Abhi chased the F16s.But if you aregetting chased back where was the surprise in the first place ?
> 
> India did the same on 26 with no movement from PAF. No retaliation.
> 
> Ofcourse they did scramble just like they did when US crossed and took OBL.


It is eternally perplexing to me that many Indian posters regard PAF not chasing intruding IAF jets while abhinandan did chase PAF jets the day after as some kind of "victory". Please understand that to chase an enemy air force after they provoke you with stand off munitions may well be EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO. Whatever criticisms there may be of PAF letting India off the hook despite multiple lock ons, there should be no doubt that NOT chasing after IAF strike force into India the day before was absolutely the height of good sense and tactical nouse.

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## SIPRA

Khafee said:


> Whose fault is that? PAF or ISI?



Fault of the target.

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## Keysersoze

loanranger said:


> Every one talks of how we shot down planes but no one talks about how they got in the day before and how to fix that. We exposed their air defenses too the next day so it's a problem for both.....


I can answer that question easily. They went for an area where there was nothing but a few buildings of no strategic value.
GPS targetting error.
There is a difference in measurement of elevation of the target by 33m in Indian Aeronautical charts and that measured by GPS. Spice 2000 which uses GPS was fed with data from Indian aeronautical charts which uses a different datum.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/indias-strike-on-balakot-a-very-precise-miss/[/QUOTE]
Well at least you acknowledge that you missed....

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## Ahmet Pasha

We should be in Russian camp(camps don't really work in today's world.) We should be closer to Russia. China hasn't really helped a country in a major way.

Russia on the other hand has shown itself to be more reliable in times of distress like in Syria, Iran and Venezuela. I doubt China would intervene militarily for Pakistan.


Avicenna said:


> Giving you the benefit of the doubt about your previous post, even if Pakistan were to do such a thing it’s still a dead duck to the US.
> 
> Any goodies would be transient and transactional in nature.
> 
> But it would be going against the trend which is emerging in the US China showdown.
> 
> Long term Pakistan is definitely in the China camp.
> 
> And going forward this will shape US policy to all relevant nations.
> 
> The US has clearly chosen India in its Indo Pacific strategy.
> 
> Pakistan might as well accept it and plan accordingly.

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## Yankee-stani

Ahmet Pasha said:


> We should be in Russian camp(camps don't really work in today's world.) We should be closer to Russia. China hasn't really helped a country in a major way.
> 
> Russia on the other hand has shown itself to be more reliable in times of distress like in Syria, Iran and Venezuela. I doubt China would intervene militarily for Pakistan.



We should not be in any camp be it Russian,Chinese,American those three superpowers or in any middle power camp struggle between Turkey,Iran,Saudi,or Qatar,I am not implying we stay neutral in the real world things are not black and white but we should focus on what are national interests allign with,and to encourage investment from all play with all sides better sing sing praise of so called Brotherhood

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## Ahmet Pasha

OsmanAli98 said:


> things are not black and white but we should focus on what are national interests allign with


Exactly my view. China is more of a businessman. Russia will be more willing to advize a solution be it military help or otherwise should India or US threaten us. 
And the habibis. Well the least said about them, the better.

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## Trailer23

Does that also include when we require their vote to Veto in any Council in our favor? China has always come through.

If it weren't for the Chinese we'd be a dead stick so keeping them close should always be #1 priority.

I'm sorry, but as long as Russia has countless hugs to give away to India - I can't be assured if they can be trusted in the long run.

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## aliyusuf

Trailer23 said:


> I'm sorry, but as long as Russia has countless hugs to give away to India - I can't be assured if they can be trusted in the long run.


Perhaps strategic goals & necessities will help culminate a mutually beneficial relationship (eventually) between Pakistan & Russia. 

At this moment there is too much ongoing deals between Russia & India (plus a history of a 50+ years relationship) that hinders Russia to openly negate Indian interests. However, due to India's continuing tilt towards the west, the strategic interests of Russia & Pakistan are bound to converge and result in a good relationship.

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## Trailer23

aliyusuf said:


> Perhaps strategic goals & necessities will help culminate a mutually beneficial relationship (eventually) between Pakistan & Russia.
> 
> At this moment there is too much ongoing deals between Russia & India (plus a history of a 50+ years relationship) that hinders Russia to openly negate Indian interests. However, due to India's continuing tilt towards the west, the strategic interests of Russia & Pakistan are bound to converge and result in a good relationship.


50+ years is hardly a relationship. Its more of a marriage.

Had India not have gone for S-400 deal, I could have been swayed from my opinion. Beatup old MiG-29's don't really mean anything. India still remains Russia's largest Defense customer and I doubt Pakistan will ever come close to the numbers.

Frankly speaking, I've only seen an interest from Russia towards Pakistan after the events 27th Feb. Now its anyone's guess what Pakistan holds (the obvious) that Russia feels obligated.

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## aliyusuf

Trailer23 said:


> 50+ years is hardly a relationship. Its more of a marriage.
> 
> Had India not have gone for S-400 deal, I could have been swayed from my opinion. Beatup old MiG-29's don't really mean anything. India still remains Russia's largest Defense customer and I doubt Pakistan will ever come close to the numbers.
> 
> Frankly speaking, I've only seen an interest from Russia towards Pakistan after the events 27th Feb. Now its anyone's guess what Pakistan holds (the obvious) that Russia feels obligated.


See it in the context of global strategic alliance that is shaping between China & Russia. Then it will become apparent where I am coming from.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Im talking military intervention. Not diplomatic and economic where China does come through on their promises but I doubt they will lend us any military help if all hell breaks loose.


Trailer23 said:


> Does that also include when we require their vote to Veto in any Council in our favor? China has always come through.
> 
> If it weren't for the Chinese we'd be a dead stick so keeping them close should always be #1 priority.
> 
> I'm sorry, but as long as Russia has countless hugs to give away to India - I can't be assured if they can be trusted in the long run.


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## Bratva

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149302259546644482
SAAB AEWC back in business. Monitoring IAF exercises over Indian Occupied Kashmir.

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## Talon

Wg Cdr Nauman The Mig Killer...

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## ghazi52



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## Windjammer

Hodor said:


> Wg Cdr Nauman The Mig Killer...
> 
> View attachment 568858


Wrong impression of the kill sir, it was BVR and not WVR.

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## Talon

Windjammer said:


> Wrong impression of the kill sir, it was BVR and not WVR.


of course it was but I think the painter did the right thing.How would you attribute the kill without showing Mig in the picture?

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## TheTallGuy

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1149302259546644482
> SAAB AEWC back in business. Monitoring IAF exercises over Indian Occupied Kashmir.



interesting times ahead!

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## Trailer23

This say that _Laughter_ strengthens your immune system, boosts mood, diminishes pain, and protects you from the damaging effects of stress.

...

*Yet to recover from Balakot airstrike impact, Pakistan rejigs defence mechanism*

According to the information accessed by Zee News, the Pakistan army has been on high alert since the IAF carried out the Balakot airstrike.

Written By: Manish Shukla
Jul 15, 2019

It seems that Pakistan is yet to recover from the impact of the Balakot airstrike, which was carried out by the Indian Air Force to avenge the attack on Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) convoy in Pulwama on February 14. While Pakistan authorities have already closed their air space along border areas, the country’s army has also deployed an Armed Brigade along the border with India.

Also, as part of a new defensive strategy, the Pakistan Army is also planning to deploy high mobility armed vehicles at some strategic locations. According to the information accessed by Zee News, the Pakistan army has been on high alert since the IAF carried out the Balakot airstrike on February 26

Recently, Pakistani authorities refused to open their air space by saying that they would not go for it unless India shifts its fighter jets from forward posts.

According to reports, Pakistan has also installed Man-Portable Air Defence System as well at locations of strategic importance. With the help of Man-Portable Air Defence System, missiles can be used for surface-to-air attacks, targeting any flying object or choppers.

An official associated with central security agencies told Zee News that since the Balakot airstrike, Pakistani defence has also been strengthening the deployment of radars and drones. Changes have also been made in the formation of units of Pakistan Army to ensure an efficient defence mechanism in future.

Zee News has also learnt that Pakistan government has asked the country’s air force to speed up the procurement of weapons and radars, which have been pending for long. The radar system along the Line of Control and International Border has also been strengthened.

Authorities in the neighbouring country have also asked terrorists based in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir to refrain from carrying weapons near the Line of Control. The terrorists have also been barred from leaving their camps without wearing Pakistan Army uniforms.

https://zeenews.india.com/india/yet...akistan-rejigs-defence-mechanism-2219226.html


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## Chak Bamu

Trailer23 said:


> This say that _Laughter_ strengthens your immune system, boosts mood, diminishes pain, and protects you from the damaging effects of stress.
> 
> ...
> 
> *Yet to recover from Balakot airstrike impact, Pakistan rejigs defence mechanism*



These Indian journalists are mythologists. They will bequeath sanskrit ashloks to the next generation. Belief in the might & superiority of IAF in the last week of Feb 2019 would be part of the Indian syllabus for generations to come.

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## Trailer23

I honestly don't know if anyone has posted this, or seen it. I sure as hell don't know if this is being sold in Pakistan.

My dad just whatsapp'ed it to me.

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## Trailer23

Here is a slightly higher Resolution (version) without the odd background.

I get the feeling we'll be seeing someone change their Avatar.

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## MastanKhan

Trailer23 said:


> I honestly don't know if anyone has posted this, or seen it. I sure as hell don't know if this is being sold in Pakistan.
> 
> My dad just whatsapp'ed it to me.
> 
> View attachment 569492





Trailer23 said:


> Here is a slightly higher Resolution (version) without the odd background.
> 
> I get the feeling we'll be seeing someone change their Avatar.
> 
> View attachment 569494



Hi,

This should not be allowed---. That is despicable for anyone to make a bag of potato chips---. Warriors should be given respect---.

Classless pakistani who did this---.

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## Psychic

Bratva said:


> That weakness needs to be plugged in and Pakistan has to prepare for multi centric attack or else Next Balakot will happen once again.


And next time, there won't be a GPS bug and they'll have bodies of madrassa children to gloat about. 
Worst case, bodies of our servicemen.

The real issue is that we won't have an opportunity like 27th again. We allowed them to adapt and learn instead of shattering their will to fight for once and for all.

We may have avoided a war then, we won't be able to avoid it now.
At least it was better to start one on our terms.

Now imagine if their bombs had hit their target on 26th, our response and it's consequences. A smaller airforce cannot afford to back-off and show "restraint" when it has the chance. We made that mistake on 27th. We've made similar mistakes throughout our history.


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## GumNaam

Bratva said:


> IAF were able to surprise us and intrude 6-7 NM in Pakistan on 26th FEB because of the same multi centric intrusion at multiple sectors and finding no CAP over Balakot or kashmir Sector, Intruded, dropped bombs and ran away
> 
> Indians exposed a weakness in our Air defenses. That even in High Alert Status, there is no constant CAP all over Pakistan, heck even our AWAC wont be covering all the Pakistan in High Alert status.
> 
> That weakness needs to be plugged in and Pakistan has to prepare for multi centric attack or else Next Balakot will happen once again.


Only 1 way effective to deal with it...increase the fighter fleet and have long range sam systems. The fighter fleet is steadily increasing and will be even more intimidating once the blk3 starts getting inducted. But looking range SAM systems definitely need to be inducted and in large numbers.

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## Avicenna

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> This should not be allowed---. That is despicable for anyone to make a bag of potato chips---. Warriors should be given respect---.
> 
> Classless pakistani who did this---.



To be honest, this is straight up classless.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Psychic said:


> And next time, there won't be a GPS bug and they'll have bodies of madrassa children to gloat about.
> Worst case, bodies of our servicemen.
> 
> The real issue is that we won't have an opportunity like 27th again. We allowed them to adapt and learn instead of shattering their will to fight for once and for all.
> 
> We may have avoided a war then, we won't be able to avoid it now.
> At least it was better to start one on our terms.
> 
> Now imagine if their bombs had hit their target on 26th, our response and it's consequences. A smaller airforce cannot afford to back-off and show "restraint" when it has the chance. We made that mistake on 27th. We've made similar mistakes throughout our history.


But, the PAF bombs didn’t have the bugs and hit near the place with replete with the Indian topmost command...

Rafaels etc. are to be procured to make money for Ambanis etc., not to fight Pak!!

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## Rakesh

Psychic said:


> And next time, there won't be a GPS bug and they'll have bodies of madrassa children to gloat about.
> Worst case, bodies of our servicemen.
> 
> The real issue is that we won't have an opportunity like 27th again. *We allowed them to adapt and learn instead of shattering their will to fight for once and for all*.
> 
> We may have avoided a war then, we won't be able to avoid it now.
> At least it was better to start one on our terms.
> 
> Now imagine if their bombs had hit their target on 26th, our response and it's consequences. A smaller airforce cannot afford to back-off and show "restraint" when it has the chance. We made that mistake on 27th. We've made similar mistakes throughout our history.


I was called defeatist, when I said 27th Feb was good for IAF. It was an eye opener and reality check. The false sense of superiority complex is gone. Real assessment of situation and resources are done. Gaps are being plugged.


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## Psychic

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> But, the PAF bombs didn’t have the bugs and hit near the place with replete with the Indian topmost command...
> 
> Rafaels etc. are to be procured to make money for Ambanis etc., not to fight Pak!!


1- Yes you are correct. Our bombs hit where our brass wanted them to.

2- 'Not fighting Pak' is yet to be seen. Many other members also stated that they are waiting for the right time to avenge the setback they suffered at our hands on 27th. 
A thorough pummeling could've achieved far more favorable results instead of "missing" and letting go 4-5 other front-line jets.

3- Those who avoid confrontation at the opportune moment end up with a fight imposed on them at an inauspicious moment.

4- A smaller power usually cannot afford the luxury of playing it safe.

5- The excuse to attack Pakistan will come after a false flag or true flag attack. Given the volatile situation in the occupied valley and growing alienation among the Kashmiris as a consequence of the abolition of article 35A, 370 and the continuation of the iron fist policy of Dehli administration, it is only a matter of time till something serious happens again.



Rakesh said:


> It was an eye opener and reality check. The false sense of superiority complex is gone. Real assessment of situation and resources are done. Gaps are being plugged.


But majority of your own countrymen won't agree with you as they believe 27th to be a big victory for India and not the eye-opener you say it was.


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## Keysersoze

Rakesh said:


> I was called defeatist, when I said 27th Feb was good for IAF. It was an eye opener and reality check. The false sense of superiority complex is gone. Real assessment of situation and resources are done. Gaps are being plugged.


Here's the reality for you.
The gaps are not being plugged. The problems of IAF are in fact many and go deeper than most people realise. It will take decades to repair the damage. These include having multiple types from different nations complicating logistics. Painfully slow programs that are constantly delayed. Poor logistics, poor pilot availability, poor aircraft availability.


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## Khafee

GumNaam said:


> Only 1 way effective to deal with it...increase the fighter fleet and have long range sam systems. The fighter fleet is steadily increasing and will be even more intimidating once the blk3 starts getting inducted. But looking range SAM systems definitely need to be inducted and in large numbers.



Lets not forget, that a new platform is also coming IA.

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## Trailer23

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> This should not be allowed---. That is despicable for anyone to make a bag of potato chips---. Warriors should be given respect---.
> 
> Classless pakistani who did this---.


Please...

Have you ever been to an American Base outside the US. *I have*, both in Iraq & Afghanistan with my previous Charter Operators (as a Crew Member). You want to talk about 'Classless', you outta take a look at the Nation everyone thinks is Super Awesome. I have witnessed how they (Americans) talk to Afghan Soilders on our flights by referring to them as "These MF'ers". Aren't they 'Warriors' who are fighting by your side?

So save your speech for people who truly care - because I doubt many/any would find a bag of Potato Chips 'Classless'.

Hell, i'm flying to Faisalabad tonite. I just might ask the Ground Staff to pick up some for me.

Americans: Taking absurd/sickening pictures with PoW's who happen to be Civilians is 'Classless'.

Indians: Taking hits at our Leaders, by calling them...Ghafoora: King of Lies is 'Classless'.

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## araz

Psychic said:


> And next time, there won't be a GPS bug and they'll have bodies of madrassa children to gloat about.
> Worst case, bodies of our servicemen.
> 
> The real issue is that we won't have an opportunity like 27th again. We allowed them to adapt and learn instead of shattering their will to fight for once and for all.
> 
> We may have avoided a war then, we won't be able to avoid it now.
> At least it was better to start one on our terms.
> 
> Now imagine if their bombs had hit their target on 26th, our response and it's consequences. A smaller airforce cannot afford to back-off and show "restraint" when it has the chance. We made that mistake on 27th. We've made similar mistakes throughout our history.


I think you have read the situation incorrectly. IF the 26th strike had hit its mark the 27th strike would also have hit its mark and the damagr cuased would have cascaded into event both parties would not have been able to control. 
Regarding the events of the 27th the IAF failed and their confidence got shattered. At least 2 fighters down(personally I think the fighters hit were more than 2). The main problem with the 27th from IAF is that it was a system failure against PAF. Till you get the weaknesses out of the system which means a lot of deep seated changes and upgradation, I feel IAF will not venture out again. 
I am not chest thumping but this is how I analyze the situation. I think I am being objective but feel free to discuss further.
A

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## CHACHA"G"

Khafee said:


> Lets not forget, that a new platform is also coming IA.


Which one bro...… Please let us know man … Thanks

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## YeBeWarned

araz said:


> I think you have read the situation incorrectly. IF the 26th strike had hit its mark the 27th strike would also have hit its mark and the damagr cuased would have cascaded into event both parties would not have been able to control.
> Regarding the events of the 27th the IAF failed and their confidence got shattered. At least 2 fighters down(personally I think the fighters hit were more than 2). The main problem with the 27th from IAF is that it was a system failure against PAF. Till you get the weaknesses out of the system which means a lot of deep seated changes and upgradation, I feel IAF will not venture out again.
> I am not chest thumping but this is how I analyze the situation. I think I am being objective but feel free to discuss further.
> A


Araz Bhai why you think it's more than two aircrafts that got hit on 27th ?


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## omaromar

What most people do not realize is that the Indian high command had planned their attack to the last detail, but more importantly their attack was the given the green light they needed by certain powers that be. 

After all, you do not cross a red line of a nuclear state armed to teeth ready to strike without certain guarantees!

No one expected Pakistani retaliation of such a level where the top tier of the Indian military command had to be hospitalized due to life threatening injuries.

The last I heard the Indian generals are still going through therapies of all sorts, both physical and psychological.

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## araz

Starlord said:


> Araz Bhai why you think it's more than two aircrafts that got hit on 27th ?


Bhai.
Indan media reported loss of a Mig 21 at around 10am the same day in the same area of IOK. The plane was shown burning. I think it was due to a missile fired at it. It would also make sense if they found an AMRAAM Stuck up its rear end to show to the world that we had used F16s. 
As to the MKI the crash site was not located so there is no way they would have located the AMRAAM that stuck it.
A

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## TsAr

Khafee said:


> Lets not forget, that a new platform is also coming IA.


Ap ka muah mein ghee shakar.....dinner's on me if this comes to light in near future......


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## PDF

Trailer23 said:


> I honestly don't know if anyone has posted this, or seen it.


I shared it somewhere months back...Don't know where.


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## Vortex

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> This should not be allowed---. That is despicable for anyone to make a bag of potato chips---. Warriors should be given respect---.
> 
> Classless pakistani who did this---.




Sorry 

Yes you are right we should not have print his pic on crisp or potatoes packet.

We should have printed his face on toilet papers !

No I’m jocking. Mmm I think I’m jocking but not sure ! 

It’s not showing disrespect. I think we show that we love him because he liked our tea


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## MastanKhan

Vortex said:


> Sorry
> 
> Yes you are right we should not have print his pic on crisp or potatoes packet.
> 
> We should have printed his face on toilet papers !
> 
> No I’m jocking. Mmm I think I’m jocking but not sure !
> 
> It’s not showing disrespect. I think we show that we love him because he liked our tea



Hi,

That comment is being shameless---.

Image on toilet paper---image on a bag of chips---.

How fast and quickly the character of muslim boys drops down into the gutter---.

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## Flight of falcon

Trailer23 said:


> Please...
> 
> Have you ever been to an American Base outside the US. *I have*, both in Iraq & Afghanistan with my previous Charter Operators (as a Crew Member). You want to talk about 'Classless', you outta take a look at the Nation everyone thinks is Super Awesome. I have witnessed how they (Americans) talk to Afghan Soilders on our flights by referring to them as "These MF'ers". Aren't they 'Warriors' who are fighting by your side?
> 
> So save your speech for people who truly care - because I doubt many/any would find a bag of Potato Chips 'Classless'.
> 
> Hell, i'm flying to Faisalabad tonite. I just might ask the Ground Staff to pick up some for me.
> 
> Americans: Taking absurd/sickening pictures with PoW's who happen to be Civilians is 'Classless'.
> 
> Indians: Taking hits at our Leaders, by calling them...Ghafoora: King of Lies is 'Classless'.




I was working in a clinic near Cleveland Ohio during the second Iraq war.
My job included doing part of physical for the soilders heading to Iraq. It sickened me to see that many of the soldiers had some


Vortex said:


> Sorry
> 
> Yes you are right we should not have print his pic on crisp or potatoes packet.
> 
> We should have printed his face on toilet papers !
> 
> No I’m jocking. Mmm I think I’m jocking but not sure !
> 
> It’s not showing disrespect. I think we show that we love him because he liked our tea




Pretty tasteless.... let’s not indulge in who can stoop lower .... we must maintain high ground and not become like our enemies....

If Talibans cut our soldiers’ heads should we do the same???

If we print their solider picture in the toilet paper what is to stop them from doing something to our religion or national figures?

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## Ghessan

omaromar said:


> What most people do not realize is that the Indian high command had planned their attack to the last detail, but more importantly their attack was the given the green light they needed by certain powers that be.
> 
> After all, you do not cross a red line of a nuclear state armed to teeth ready to strike without certain guarantees!
> 
> No one expected Pakistani retaliation of such a level where the top tier of the Indian military command had to be hospitalized due to life threatening injuries.
> 
> The last I heard the Indian generals are still going through therapies of all sorts, both physical and psychological.



i agree as i also think it was a failure at political grounds, obviously all the option were considered militarily hence the outcome was a go ahead for the operation on 26 feb night. what relaxed them the next morning was several factors (all political) they had a nod from powers who kept quite after the incident, hence were of the mind with no such response from PAF with those pressures on Pakistan.


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## aliyusuf

Vortex said:


> What is a pic of abhinandan on a chips bag compared to its pic on toilet paper ? It’s not so disrespectful in my opinion.
> It’s childish joke ok, but not disrespect,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn’t you heard about a big store who printed drawing on toilet paper and who looked like...  I won’t say the name of our Creator here !
> 
> Yes they already did !
> 
> 
> Here the pic taken from the video in the link below:
> 
> The store was Mark and Spencer in Paris La Defence ( a big businesses area near Paris)
> 
> View attachment 569755
> 
> 
> 
> Link of the video (sorry it’s in french)
> 
> https://www.google.fr/amp/s/amp.lef...papier-toilette-et-obtiennent-son-retrait.php


Just thought I should share the following, apart from the point you were making @Vortex ...
The word Allah الله existed before Islam. It is the name in Arabic for The Almighty as preached by Prophet Abraham (Ibrahim Alaihassalam). The name of God in Arabic Bibles is also Allah الله. And Abraham is revered by Muslims, Jews & Christians alike. So they are debasing the name of their own One And Only Deity (as well) in ignorance and out of hatred for Muslims.

So this is being done by certain elements who want to aggravate the Muslims so that they react and the friction between Muslims and the West remains hot. We shouldn't fall prey to these despicable ploys to create chaos & unrest on religious basis.

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## Trailer23

Trailer23 said:


> Guys, over the years I've been in awe of the Artwork sold for various Air Forces' around the World & could only find a handful of PAF Artwork sold online.
> 
> Finally, I've found a person (in Pakistan) & his work is...CLASS.
> 
> I'm gonna attach a few images of his work & you guys can get in touch with him through Facebook and/or his cellphone number (mentioned).
> 
> His name is *Zeeshan Bangash*.
> 
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ZeeshanBangashPAFDigitalAviationArt
> 
> Just browse through 'Aviation Art Prints' and you can later check out the 'Patches, Insignias & Logos'.
> 
> I honestly don't know how many I plan on ordering at the off chance my wife throwing me out. But what the hell.
> 
> View attachment 569496
> 
> View attachment 569495
> 
> View attachment 569501
> 
> View attachment 569497
> 
> View attachment 569503
> 
> View attachment 569500
> 
> View attachment 569502
> 
> View attachment 569504
> 
> View attachment 569499
> 
> View attachment 569498
> 
> 
> *TRIBUTE*
> View attachment 569505​



Artist name: *Zeeshan Bangash*.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ZeeshanBangashPAFDigitalAviationArt













*@Horus **@Dubious* *@araz* *@Bilal Khan (Quwa)* *@Dazzler* *@fatman17* *@Hodor* *@Irfan Baloch* *@Imran Khan* *@Knuckles* *@Oscar* *@waz* *@Windjammer**
@aeromerix* *@Haroon Baloch* *@HRK* *@GriffinsRule* *@Hakikat ve Hikmet** @Khafee @loanranger * *@mingle** @Shane**@Pakhtoon yum* *@PAKISTANFOREVER* *@Path-Finder* *@PWFI** @Signalian **@Starlord* *@Super Falcon* *@_Sherdils_* *@TF141 @TheTallGuy **@TOPGUN* *@Vortex* *@war&peace* *@War Thunder*

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## Bratva

Some relevant excerpts from the article


Q.What has been your most memorable mission & why was that?

A. 26 Feb 19, after the Indian Air Force’s attempted strikes in Pakistan border region- at 5 in the night took off in rain/low cloud with TS in the vicinity. Clouds were from 4,000 till 33,000 feet. Got out of clouds and controller reported two Su-30s ‘across the fence’. I targeted them at ranges beyond 50-60 NM but didn’t get authorisation to engage from controller, < so I> continued to grind above 32,000 flowing hot and cold 20-30NM from fence targeting the Su-30s. The IAF scrambled a total of six more Su-30s and finally I had eight Su-30s in front. Would turn hot and target each one in sequence from north to south (just spike them seeing whether they get lured in or not). After hitting texaco (air refuelling) returned to based amid rain and wet runway.. the first thing ground crew did was count the missiles.. gave a disappointed look once all were intact. the same profile continued for a couple of month but that first mission was an unbelievable experience.”


Q.Which threat aircraft is most challenging and why? How confident do you against the M2000 and MiG-29?

A. Definitely the Su-30 is the most difficult aircraft in terms of current Indian Air Force inventory but we regularly fly against the F-16 and more importantly AMRAAM, so Adder and Alamo seem less worrisome (smily face). Mirage with MICA is definitely a real threat.”





The IAF’s Su-30 are the most formidable threat aircraft to the PAF.



Q.How would you rate the JF-17s sensors & weapons?

A. KLJ-7 radar plus Indra radar warning receiver plus Self-Protection Jamming, ASEL targeting Pod equals a very potent system. We have air-ground/sea stand-off weapons with ranges of over 50NM, well out of SAM ranges”



Q.Which aircraft have you flown DACT against- which was the most challenging and why?

A. DACT : F-16 Block-52+ , Mirage, F:7P.

Turkish F-16s. Definitely F-16+AMRAAM combo was the most challenging.”

Q.What’s the best way to fight a M2000?

A.BVR: Avoid long range low DMC shots of MICA through defensive action in first flow..after that fight at equal advantage in BVR v BVR scenario IR v IR scenario: I don’t think the M2000 would be able to sustain prolonged turning engagement with a Thunder in air-air configuration.. in PAF we have a joke about mirages ” tally one mirage 6 o clock to me and I’m offensively engaged! <smilie face>“





Mirage 2000 with MICA- a threat to be respected.


Q. In a WVR fight would you rather be in an F-16 or JF-17?

A. F-16 .. for the initial 180deg turn, then Thunder all the way. JF-17 with PL-10 mod (currently in pipeline) will trump F-16 with AIM-9M any day of the week, but currently on brute performance F-16 has the edge.”







How good is the engine?

“With the current config engine produces sufficient power – but who doesn’t like a bit of extra thrust?


Which weapons are currently in frontline service on JF-17?

“Currently we have PL-5(IR missile) SD-10(BVR). C-802 anti ship standoff , REK/IREK air-surface standoff with multiple warhead/seekers/roles and then all the GP Bombs, CM-400 and host of other A/G weapons for precision strikes. All that with the integrated ASEL Pod for targeting.”

Q.The IAF and PAF account of the 2019 vary, what actually happened? What are popular misunderstandings of it?

A: We shot a MiG-21 on our side and a Su-30 on their side (which we didn’t claim initially because we already had the MiG-21 pilot in custody and that was enough of a message that we had the superiority). Plus we didn’t want to rub it in their face that we had shot two jets which in turn would escalate the problem. Needless to say, we have the wreckage of MiG-21 with all four missiles intact (hence no shooting of our jets took place) plus our electronic warfare (EW) platforms have all the radio transmissions of the IAF — and it’s a treat to listen to those confused and devastated calls of IAF pilots and controller which the shooting was taking place (IAF do not operate on secure radios so all their RT chatter is easily picked by EW platforms.

Plus a MiG-21 in Block zero-one i.e below 20,000 with AA-12 Adder can only dream of getting a missile off rail against targets beyond 20NM (plus the Kopyo radar doesn’t support AA-12 launches beyond 20NM and that too on head-on aspects). Plus the evidence the Indians showed was a AMRAAM piece on their side claiming it was from a F-16 they shot. My simple question: if they found a piece of AMRAAM on their side but no jet attached to it then where did the wreckage go? Duhhh. And for a MiG to launch a missile against an F-16 and get it to A-pole and in the meantime get shot by another jet speaks poorly of the MiG-21’s pilot’s priorities as a fighter pilot.

Nobody in their right frame of mind would enter the kill zone being spiked from all side and still continue hot without listening to any controller or formation member. In the intense comm jam environment with non secure radio the poor MiG-21 pilot didn’t receive any threat warnings given by his controller and I’m sure he didn’t have a moving map display telling him he had crossed the border and the comms were being jammed.”


https://hushkit.net/2019/07/19/flyi...erview-with-pakistan-air-force-fighter-pilot/

@omaromar @TheTallGuy

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## Trailer23

@Bratva , Brilliant Article.

Read it twice, just for fun.


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## Suriya

omaromar said:


> No one expected Pakistani retaliation of such a level where the top tier of the Indian military command had to be hospitalized due to life threatening injuries.
> 
> The last I heard the Indian generals are still going through therapies of all sorts, both physical and psychological.


Who exactly are you talking about when u say 'indian Indian military command had to be hospitalized due to life threatening injuries ' ??
Nothing of that sort ever happened .


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## chauvunist

Khafee said:


> Lets not forget, that a new platform is also coming IA.



Khafee bhai, Aap ke moun me ghee shakkar..

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## Suriya

*Ok , u can dismiss the F-16 shot down part at the outset .*

But this is an interesting video , i'm sure not seen by many on PDF .

1. You can see a A2A missile being fired . *U also hear a blast while the missile is still in flight .*

2. It hits some thing or not ?

3. *The wreckage of the downing plane isn't a mig21 . We have see Mig21 coming down videos which is very different from this one *.

4. *And a rescue chopper flying toward the wreckage .*

*So the question arises which jet is it ?? Indian or Pakistani ?*

@Imran Khan @Windjammer @Areesh @AUz @RIWWIR @MastanKhan @Keysersoze @gambit @Horus @waz @Alternatiiv @airomerix @Arsalan 345


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## Suriya

@bl33d have you seen this ??
A chopper is also seen flying to at the end of the clip .
Whose chopper is this ? IAF or PAF ?


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## war&peace

It is a twin engine fighterjet

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## Suriya

war&peace said:


> It is a twin engine fighterjet


ok , at the end u see a chopper flying . Who does it belong to ?


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## hussain0216

Su30

Its the only other jet shot down that day

Problem is it fell inside Indian occupied Kashmir

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## khanmubashir

the object looks flatter kind of like a twin engine jet 



Suriya said:


> ok , at the end u see a chopper flying . Who does it belong to ?


looks like those French made helicopters Indian also use I am forgetting the name

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## Suriya

hussain0216 said:


> Su30
> 
> Its the only other jet shot down that day
> 
> Problem is it fell inside Indian occupied Kashmir


I'm more interested in the chopper flying at the end of the clip . The *chopper's identit*y will where the wreckage fall and whose jet is it .


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## Sugarcane

It's your MKI

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## wali87

Thats the video of your Su30 getting killed by an AMRAAM on your side of the border. Thanks for the video tho.

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## Suriya

Sugarcane said:


> It's your MKI





wali87 said:


> Thats the video of your Su30 getting killed by an AMRAAM on your side of the border. Thanks for the video tho.





undercover JIX said:


> @bl33d Suriya bhai calling you here for your expert views.



The most interesting aspect of this clip is ,

*while you see an A2A missile flying along with that u also hear the sound of blast which mean the blast happened from another missile fired previously from the missile seen in the clip .*


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## Death Professor

naya manjun, we didn't downed an F-16 but we destroyed a helicopter. ffs enough of this, just stop....


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## python-000

Suriya said:


> *Ok , u can dismiss the F-16 shot down part at the outset .*
> 
> But this is an interesting video , i'm sure not seen by many on PDF .
> 
> 1. You can see a A2A missile being fired . *U also hear a blast while the missile is still in flight .*
> 
> 2. It hits some thing or not ?
> 3. The wreckage of the downing plane isn't a mig21 . We have see Mig21 coming down videos which is very differnt from this one .
> 
> 4. *And a rescue chopper flying toward the wreckage .*
> 
> *So the question arises which jet is it ?? Indian or Pakistani ?*
> 
> @Imran Khan @Windjammer @Areesh @AUz @RIWWIR @MastanKhan @Keysersoze


so what do you want to achieve by making a new threat on this video...


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## Hack-Hook

I wonder how any body from these video can determine the type of the jet

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## Suriya

Hack-Hook said:


> I wonder how any body from these video can determine the type of the jet


1. May be the from chopper flying in the clip .

2. Or from *geo locater* of the clip to pin point where the video was shot .


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## NeptuneShadow

Suriya said:


> The most interesting aspect of this clip is ,
> 
> *while you see an A2A missile flying along with that u also hear the sound of blast which mean the blast happened from another missile fired previously from the missile seen in the clip .*



Mountains all around. Echo is normal thing to observe in area like this.

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## BL33D

Suriya said:


> @bl33d have you seen this ??
> A chopper is also seen flying to at the end of the clip .
> Whose chopper is this ? IAF or PAF ?


By our analysts it is claimed to be a F-16, there was also a video of a pakistani youth claiming a jet crashed there. It remains inconclusive.


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## Hack-Hook

Suriya said:


> 1. May be the from chopper flying in the clip .
> 
> 2. Or from *geo locater* of the clip to pin point where the video was shot .


those thing say nothing . give me a video and I modify everything in it for you


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## Suriya

bl33d said:


> By our analysts it is claimed to be a F-16, there was also a video of a pakistani youth claiming a jet crashed there. It remains inconclusive.


Can u figure out the chopper in it ?
one thing is sure it's not mig21 of Abhi .


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## BL33D

undercover JIX said:


> @bl33d Suriya bhai calling you here for your expert views.


I am no expert like you, i am a student who is a tech and military enthusiast, not like you, an ocean of knowledge , unibased to his core, exposes indians, pulls out the real india by peddling important news from india that doesnt make himself feel better. Your contribution is unparalleled.

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## SQ8

Suriya said:


> I'm more interested in the chopper flying at the end of the clip . The *chopper's identit*y will where the wreckage fall and whose jet is it .


Not really.. the chopper is flying near the LoC and the jet being brought down could be on either side of it.

That being said its shape resembles a Dhruv, and the only high altitude kill claimed by the PAF side is that of the Su-30 since the F-16s were claimed to be at lower altitudes.

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## BL33D

Suriya said:


> Can u figure out the chopper in it ?
> one thing is sure it's not mig21 of Abhi .


There was an analysis on this on twitter by many, this video was discussed at length. Try to find about charhoi becoz this video looks like from that region which was completely blocked and went off grid , the whole city for a week and they said it was becoz of caution. lol.

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## undercover JIX

bl33d said:


> I am no expert like you, i am a student who is a tech and military enthusiast, not like you, an ocean of knowledge , unibased to his core, exposes indians, pulls out the real india by peddling important news from india that doesnt make himself feel better. Your contribution is unparalleled.


see how you changing now, come on man be yourself.

and by the way, your post was a troll post off topic.


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## Suriya

Oscar said:


> That being said its shape resembles a Dhruv, and the only high altitude kill claimed by the PAF side is that of the Su-30 since the F-16s were claimed to be at lower altitudes.



Missile is seen still flying in a path bit different from where blast cloud first seen and blast sound heard .

What do u think it was the same missile that hit the jet or another missile not seen in the clip ?


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## BL33D

undercover JIX said:


> see how you changing now, come on man be yourself.
> 
> and by the way, your post was a troll post off topic.


i am more genuine than you, the way you start cursing when somebody hits ur nerve is evident that how pissed you are from inside. have some of ur own tea, we tasted it, it was good.


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## CHACHA"G"

Mig-21 a low altitude kill and according to indian that mig-21 downed F-16 so that is to low altitude kill , but the JET in Video is high altitude (look like) and look at the size of the going down jet (my guess not a single engine) and on Heli part video look like edited , Just watch closely from 1.00 to 1.06 and see how things change(most probably time delay) !!! It means that heli came after(for rescue) that jet going down ..


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## Basel

Oscar said:


> Not really.. the chopper is flying near the LoC and the jet being brought down could be on either side of it.
> 
> That being said its shape resembles a Dhruv, and the only high altitude kill claimed by the PAF side is that of the Su-30 since the F-16s were claimed to be at lower altitudes.



F-16 were around 20K feet's which means MKI flying around 30K feet's??


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## war&peace

Suriya said:


> ok , at the end u see a chopper flying . Who does it belong to ?


Perhaps to you because MKI fell on your side.


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## undercover JIX

bl33d said:


> i am more genuine than you, the way you start cursing when somebody hits ur nerve is evident that how pissed you are from inside. have some of ur own tea, we tasted it, it was good.


you think dealing with trolls like you is easy when have to repeat same thing over and over?

stop being a troll and no one will tell you anything, and respect you.


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## Thorough Pro

Its the indian side of border and the chpper is the same that your air defence fried with six surma's on board
In other videos you can also see the fried IAF personnel

MEDIA=youtube]QUKo_3KNwEY[/MEDIA]





Suriya said:


> @bl33d have you seen this ??
> A chopper is also seen flying to at the end of the clip .
> Whose chopper is this ? IAF or PAF ?

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## Tom_Cruise

bl33d said:


> *By our analysts it is claimed to be a F-16*, there was also a video of a pakistani youth claiming a jet crashed there. It remains inconclusive.



Which 'analysts' are they?


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## Thorough Pro

If you look closely on the foot long faces, you can see how many jets and of which country hugged the mother earth that day

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## BL33D

Tom_Cruise said:


> Which 'analysts' are they?


I am not supposed to tell you that 



Thorough Pro said:


> Its the indian side of border and the chpper is the same that your air defence fried with six surma's on board
> In other videos you can also see the fried IAF personnel
> 
> MEDIA=youtube]QUKo_3KNwEY[/MEDIA]


clearly the accent of the voice in the video was from an indian dialect right !!!!!!!!

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## Thorough Pro

This is the 2nd Mig shot down by PAF and fell inside India






Kashmiri dialect is the same across the line



bl33d said:


> I am not supposed to tell you that
> 
> 
> clearly the accent of the voice in the video was from an indian dialect right !!!!!!!!

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## Tom_Cruise

bl33d said:


> I am not supposed to tell you that



Nice way to bail out when challenged

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## Suriya

Oscar said:


> That being said its shape resembles a Dhruv, and the only high altitude kill claimed by the PAF side is that of the Su-30 since the F-16s were claimed to be at lower altitudes.





CHACHA"G" said:


> Mig-21 a low altitude kill and according to indian that mig-21 downed F-16 so that is to low altitude kill , but the JET in Video is high altitude (look like) and look at the size of the going down jet (my guess not a single engine) and on Heli part video look like edited , Just watch closely from 1.00 to 1.06 and see how things change(most probably time delay) !!! It means that heli came after(for rescue) that jet going down ..



Okay , what i know ..

1. F-16s were firing BVRs from high altitude at max range at below flying MKIs

2. MKI's R-77 couldn't find a firing solution since they were at lower altitude than out ranged f-16 .

3. That's why they tried to evade AMRAAM by diving down the pirpangal range .

4. Had a MKI been hit while diving down , it should been a low altitude kill .

5. It is said that Abhi's mig 21 that sneaked under the pir panjal range and rose up to meet a pair of F-16 when fired his R-73 downing his supposed F-16 kill .

@gambit 
sir , can u figure out whose plane wreckage is this from the clip ?


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## Thorough Pro

and this is how the victory speech of a leader sounds

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## Suriya

@gambit
sir , can u figure out whose plane wreckage is this seen in the clip and which missile is hitting it ?

Is there another missile hitting the plane not seen in the clip ?


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## SIPRA

Only some expert, in air warfare, can decipher this video.


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## Lincoln

Suriya said:


> 1. May be the from chopper flying in the clip .
> 
> 2. Or from *geo locater* of the clip to pin point where the video was shot .



You can't tell jet from this video.

The blast isn't necessarily a hit, it could be a sonic boom. I don't see the object "going down" per say.

The helicopter can be identified, I don't know which helicopter is it.


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## Suriya

Alternatiiv said:


> You can't tell jet from this video.
> 
> The blast isn't necessarily a hit, it could be a sonic boom. I don't see the object "going down" per say.
> 
> The helicopter can be identified, I don't know which helicopter is it.


But there is a missile seen flying and at the same time a blast sound . It could a hit by same missile or another one not seen in the video .


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## Lincoln

Suriya said:


> But there is a missile seen flying and at the same time a blast sound . It could a hit by same missile or another one not seen in the video .



Possibly, I personally can't tell atm. If that's even a missile. I will check it later.

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## SIPRA

Alternatiiv said:


> Possibly, I personally can't tell atm. If that's even a missile. I will check it later.



This video is more like the old time blurred blue movies, in which only some exciting sounds used to tell that something is happening.


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## Zhukov

Chalo G. Another Thread.

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## SIPRA

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Chalo G. Another Thread.



And the interesting thing is that it is opened by none other than an Indian poster.

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## Mugen

Looks like one of ISI's pigeon was finally shot down. It really breaks my heart. Kudos to Indians, they finally did it.


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## war&peace

Tom_Cruise said:


> Which 'analysts' are they?


They use their brown eyes to see and feel things


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## Areesh

@Suriya still trying to prove f16 kill so many months after the incident  

Only if IAF had made an actual kill and you guys won't have to prove it since the kill was actually made which couldn't be denied

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## SIPRA

Areesh said:


> @Suriya still trying to prove f16 kill so many months after the incident



"Doobtay ko tinkay ka sahaara"

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## Mr.Cringeworth

bl33d said:


> By our analysts it is claimed to be a F-16, there was also a video of a pakistani youth claiming a jet crashed there. It remains inconclusive.


NO it does not remain inconclusive after US did a count and found no f-16 missing, so that's out of the picture. This seems like a twin engine jet thats been hit but somehow its still flyng maybe its the su 30.


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## Crystal-Clear

twin engine jet .


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## ColonelSanders

bl33d said:


> I am not supposed to tell you that
> 
> 
> clearly the accent of the voice in the video was from an indian dialect right !!!!!!!!


I can tell you the real true story behind this video.
I shot this video with my super zoom lense and also captured the locals talking about this.

Its not 1 but 10 F16s falling down when they heard that a mig 21 has crossed the border and pilots couldn't control their jets in fear of that mig. Rest is just bullshit


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## undercover JIX

@Arsalan this thread could be merged with original Feb 27 thread, where all this has been discussed extensively.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...fts-inside-pakistani-airspace-dg-ispr.604031/


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## Mig hunter

Yr it's simple just say that it was F 16 and our neibour can sleep peacefully. They are used to satisfy themselves with bollywood type of stunts. This doesnt show sh*t. Even it can be PS.

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## Arsalan 345

@Suriya inconclusive.video is too blurry.also the helicopter looks like either indian dhruv or pakistani bell.from the video, it's difficult to tell which aircraft.

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## sohailbarki

Suriya said:


> *Ok , u can dismiss the F-16 shot down part at the outset .*
> 
> But this is an interesting video , i'm sure not seen by many on PDF .
> 
> 1. You can see a A2A missile being fired . *U also hear a blast while the missile is still in flight .*
> 
> 2. It hits some thing or not ?
> 
> 3. *The wreckage of the downing plane isn't a mig21 . We have see Mig21 coming down videos which is very different from this one *.
> 
> 4. *And a rescue chopper flying toward the wreckage .*
> 
> *So the question arises which jet is it ?? Indian or Pakistani ?*
> 
> @Imran Khan @Windjammer @Areesh @AUz @RIWWIR @MastanKhan @Keysersoze @gambit @Horus @waz @Alternatiiv @airomerix @Arsalan 345



Their is a fundamental problem with this video, In the first half of the video it looks like either dawn or sunset time. In the second half where helicopter appears to be mid day time. In my opinion its a mixture of two different videos at two different times. We all the the Pakistani strike happened at broad day light. So this video is fake.

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## Telescopic Sight

3 different clips put together. 
Chopper is either a PAF * AW139 *or an IAF Dhruv.
But the 2nd clip is misunderstood by you. It is a post missile hit jet, falling down from the sky. A mystery indeed, seeing how Indians say this is the PAF jet ( whatever type , F16 or Mirage or FC1 ) and Pakistanis say that this is a Su 30.
But if you hear the language , it is quite clear that this isn't Indian Kashmir. 
And let's all ignore the childish poster who cannot identify a burned Russian helicopter despite the video information and calls it a Sukhoi


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## Thorough Pro

we don't twist the facts and say what was reality, unlike your false bravado and continuous non-stop lying.



bl33d said:


> yea like pakistani celebrating 65, 71 and 99 war right ?

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## SQ8

bl33d said:


> yea like pakistani celebrating 65, 71 and 99 war right ?


Definitely 65.. although more shameful is the nation which thinks cornering and beating its neighbors 1/5th its size is some achievement.

Even with 5 times the population, 10 times the landmass and 20 times the economy, India needs to complain once its jets get shot down; talk about fear.



Suriya said:


> Okay , what i know ..
> 
> 1. F-16s were firing BVRs from high altitude at max range at below flying MKIs
> 
> 2. MKI's R-77 couldn't find a firing solution since they were at lower altitude than out ranged f-16 .
> 
> 3. That's why they tried to evade AMRAAM by diving down the pirpangal range .
> 
> 4. Had a MKI been hit while diving down , it should been a low altitude kill .
> 
> 5. It is said that Abhi's mig 21 that sneaked under the pir panjal range and rose up to meet a pair of F-16 when fired his R-73 downing his supposed F-16 kill .
> 
> @gambit
> sir , can u figure out whose plane wreckage is this from the clip ?


That would make sense if 4 missiles weren’t recovered intact with their warheads. 
Abhi is just a clown in your hands now and his dignity as a professional is being raped for PR.

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## Thorough Pro

Take it from your own experts, which plane was it









Suriya said:


> @gambit
> sir , can u figure out whose plane wreckage is this seen in the clip and which missile is hitting it ?
> 
> Is there another missile hitting the plane not seen in the clip ?

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## Talon



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## Rakesh

araz said:


> I think you have read the situation incorrectly. IF the 26th strike had hit its mark the 27th strike would also have hit its mark and the damagr cuased would have cascaded into event both parties would not have been able to control.
> Regarding the events of the 27th the IAF failed and their confidence got shattered. At least 2 fighters down(personally I think the fighters hit were more than 2). The main problem with the 27th from IAF is that it was a system failure against PAF. Till you get the weaknesses out of the system which means a lot of deep seated changes and upgradation, I feel IAF will not venture out again.
> I am not chest thumping but this is how I analyze the situation. I think I am being objective but feel free to discuss further.
> A


 I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb). 
Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.

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## Cuirassier

Odd that they never anticipated something like 27th Feb after doing something like 26th Feb.


Rakesh said:


> I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
> Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.

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## aliyusuf

Rakesh said:


> I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
> Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.





TF141 said:


> Odd that they never anticipated something like 27th Feb after doing something like 26th Feb.



Actually therein lies the core malaise of the IAF. Their top brass more than their pilots are at fault. It is the job and & duty of the top brass to formulate and devise correct doctrines & strategy. Based on which tactics are developed and assets are acquired & organized. That they didn't see this coming especially after the events of the 26th and were not prepared in general for such a possibility at all, does not bode well for the IAF think tanks as a whole. Especially when the Pakistani PM and DG ISPR categorically had stated earlier that we would retaliate to any aggression. Something tells me that even if they did learn from this mistake, they are set to make new ones (mistakes) if they try to jump the gun again. You cannot change your way of thinking on which your entire careers have been based, overnight, this will take time to rectify. The capacity that the IAF needs to build is not just assets (they have plenty), but how their personnel can make optimum use of their assets to achieve their objectives. Their training and tactics need a thorough review. IAF had BVR way way before than PAF i.e. way more seasoned in using BVRs than the PAF. Yet they couldn't drive that head start and greater experience to a telling advantage on the 27th. Furthermore they had been practicing against F-16s of the Singapore, Korea and UAE air forces for more than a decade now ... yet they get out gunned and out distanced by AMRAAM's (choosing words from Indian media)? Food for thought indeed.

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## SIPRA

Rakesh said:


> I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
> Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.



I don't get, what you are trying to say. Feb 27 was of course not a prolonged conflict. So, why didn't IA anticipate it?

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## Keysersoze

Rakesh said:


> I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
> Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.


Well I agree with the first statementyou are no military expert. The whole Indian doctrine in respect to Pakistan has always been to overwhelm the Pak defences before the nuclear option can be used. (Cold start etc) However this whole adventure was borne of arrogance. They thought there would be no retaliation, that they could easily overwhelm the opposition. I have stated before that the IAF is actually a mess that will take decades and a lot of money to fix. The arrogance is more of national problem... that will take longer....

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## Zee-shaun

Hodor said:


> View attachment 570294

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## Cuirassier

aliyusuf said:


> Actually therein lies the core malaise of the IAF. Their top brass more than their pilots are at fault. It is the job and & duty of the top brass to formulate and devise correct doctrines & strategy. Based on which tactics are developed and assets are acquired & organized. That they didn't see this coming especially after the events of the 26th and were not prepared in general for such a possibility at all, does not bode well for the IAF think tanks as a whole. Especially when the Pakistani PM and DG ISPR categorically had stated earlier that we would retaliate to any aggression. Something tells me that even if they did learn from this mistake, they are set to make new ones (mistakes) if they try to jump the gun again. You cannot change your way of thinking on which your entire careers have been based, overnight, this will take time to rectify. The capacity that the IAF needs to build is not just assets (they have plenty), but how their personnel can make optimum use of their assets to achieve their objectives. Their training and tactics need a thorough review. IAF had BVR way way before than PAF i.e. way more seasoned in using BVRs than the PAF. Yet they couldn't drive that head start and greater experience to a telling advantage on the 27th. Furthermore they had been practicing against F-16s of the Singapore, Korea and UAE air forces for more than a decade now ... yet they get out gunned and out distanced by AMRAAM's (choosing words from Indian media)? Food for thought indeed.


On point.


----------



## M.Kamran_Pak

pakdefender said:


> Wow they have been reduced to showing parts of ordnance to salvage their totally broken pride , this pic should be put in the records , reduced to showing debris as some kind of face saving
> 
> From denial of first not losing any aircraft , to not losing in air to air combat , they were peddling stories that ground fire brought down the aircraft to showing debris as proof of their air to air loss  this is EPIC !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 543018


It seems if a victim of rape is showing bloody trousers to demand justice.....

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## omaromar

Suriya said:


> Who exactly are you talking about when u say 'indian Indian military command had to be hospitalized due to life threatening injuries ' ??
> Nothing of that sort ever happened .


Read my post again, slowly. 

*Pakistan hit Indian military targets in the broad daylight. *

Think of Abhinandan being shot down in his jet where he didn't see it coming, now multiply it by a 100.

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## NA71

Guys get ready for another episode as expected .....situation on LOC-Tangdhar and Keran sectors is getting bad....IAF has started flying jets over these sectors.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

NA71 said:


> Guys get ready for another episode as expected .....situation on LOC-Tangdhar and Keran sectors is getting bad....IAF has started flying jets over these sectors.


Kuch ni hoga bhai


----------



## NA71

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Kuch ni hoga bhai



Allah Khair Karey.


----------



## loanranger

NA71 said:


> Guys get ready for another episode as expected .....situation on LOC-Tangdhar and Keran sectors is getting bad....IAF has started flying jets over these sectors.


What excuse do they have for initiating agression this time? Nothing will happen until something blows up in kashmir or mumbai again....

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## NA71

take a look at developing situation on LOC...sources says Pakistan in response to Indian deployment, has started deploying heavy artillery guns ...Type 55/56/59/65...Intense CAP is also being observed ....Indian media just reported that India may close Air space in that Area. Indian media also claims that Pak Army units crossed the LoC and targeted Indian posts.

In just past few hours, situation is escalated to dangerous level ....


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## Smoke

NA71 said:


> take a look at developing situation on LOC...sources says Pakistan in response to Indian deployment, has started deploying heavy artillery guns ...Type 55/56/59/65...Intense CAP is also being observed ....Indian media just reported that India may close Air space in that Area. Indian media also claims that Pak Army units crossed the LoC and targeted Indian posts.
> 
> In just past few hours, situation is escalated to dangerous level ....



Well the LOC crossing is fake news, check tweet by ISPR. 

For the rest, we can prepare for any BS.


----------



## NA71

Indian media... And now BBC also Covering the tense situation..... Look at Twitter Gen Ghafoor and FM Quoreshi sending regular tweets..... CAA is asked to be on stand by..... Possible closure of Air space from our side too....

Some 38000 fresh troops entered IOK in 48 hrs.... Even Barkha Dutt is reporting on channel that all tourists have been asked to leave area immediately.... And we don't know what's going to happen....

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## BATMAN

NA71 said:


> Indian media... And now BBC also Covering the tense situation..... Look at Twitter Gen Ghafoor and FM Quoreshi sending regular tweets..... CAA is asked to be on stand by..... Possible closure of Air space from our side too....
> 
> Some 38000 fresh troops entered IOK in 48 hrs.... Even Barkha Dutt is reporting on channel that all tourists have been asked to leave area immediately.... And we don't know what's going to happen....
> 
> View attachment 572467



While leaders of Pakistan are only concerned with self styled anti blasphemy drive.


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## NA71

WAR ROOM is being setup for what???

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## BATMAN

NA71 said:


> WAR ROOM is being setup for what???
> View attachment 572468



This is already wrong, rapist army of Indian should not hide among civil infrastructure.


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## NA71

IAF transport planes are being used to evacuate Indians from kashmir.


----------



## ziaulislam

seems center has decided one clear clean up op, expect 1000s in causalities and may be a response to this by Kashmirs which will end up with another war like situation



NA71 said:


> WAR ROOM is being setup for what???
> View attachment 572468


----------



## NA71

Now some pakistani media channels also reporting heavy exchange of fire on Naykiyal sector.


----------



## TheTallGuy

@NA71 
i am expecting big poop from Indians and then mutiny then serious clashes! mind you i am afraid we will have to fight with what we have now in hand!

Allah hamara hami o Nasir Ho!


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## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> @NA71
> i am expecting big poop from Indians and then mutiny then serious clashes! mind you i am afraid we will have to fight with what we have now in hand!
> 
> Allah hamara hami o Nasir Ho!



Ji bilkul sahi, remember, we were predicting this since March this year. 

The latest is Prime Minister, IK, has just called emergency meeting ...all civil and military leadership will attend.


----------



## TheTallGuy

Trump revelation about modi proposal did more harm then good! he has made monkey jump from Wall


----------



## NA71



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## denel

aliyusuf said:


> Actually therein lies the core malaise of the IAF. Their top brass more than their pilots are at fault. It is the job and & duty of the top brass to formulate and devise correct doctrines & strategy. Based on which tactics are developed and assets are acquired & organized. That they didn't see this coming especially after the events of the 26th and were not prepared in general for such a possibility at all, does not bode well for the IAF think tanks as a whole. Especially when the Pakistani PM and DG ISPR categorically had stated earlier that we would retaliate to any aggression. Something tells me that even if they did learn from this mistake, they are set to make new ones (mistakes) if they try to jump the gun again. You cannot change your way of thinking on which your entire careers have been based, overnight, this will take time to rectify. The capacity that the IAF needs to build is not just assets (they have plenty), but how their personnel can make optimum use of their assets to achieve their objectives. Their training and tactics need a thorough review. IAF had BVR way way before than PAF i.e. way more seasoned in using BVRs than the PAF. Yet they couldn't drive that head start and greater experience to a telling advantage on the 27th. Furthermore they had been practicing against F-16s of the Singapore, Korea and UAE air forces for more than a decade now ... yet they get out gunned and out distanced by AMRAAM's (choosing words from Indian media)? Food for thought indeed.


too much masala chai and curry by their top brass. - throwing it in just for fun. they have become very complacent.

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## Counterpunch

NA71 said:


> View attachment 572510


This is coming from Sabir Shakir's fan boy page..so even lesser credibility


----------



## araz

TheTallGuy said:


> Trump revelation about modi proposal did more harm then good! he has made monkey jump from Wall


I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Trump may have knowingly and willingly put Indians under pressure and Modi is trying to relieve this pressure by asking the forces to intervene in Kashmir. The likelihood is either that the UN Steps in giving India face and settles Kashmir down. We are also into August so come October the snow will start and movement will become progressively difficult. So they might want to exert control before the winter sets in.
This is interesting in:-
A. How Pakistan plays this. We are in a very difficult political and strategic situation. Hate it, as we might, we cannot intervene militarily because then Indians will get back to their original line of Kashmir terror is the result of Pakistani intervention. However we cannot ignore this either.
B. How does the world react especially China and Russia. There are many permutations to this but all lead to a humanitarian disaster.
C. The US great game . Is this a ploy to occupy the regional powers while extracting the majority of its soldiers from Afghanistan. Looking at their history they have done this before. The other more simplistic situation is the grounds being prepared for final action of the powers that be in Kashmir. Do they then take this aituation to boot India out of Kashmir and set up shop in Kashmir under UN auspices to eventually set up a state of Kashmir and set up a protectorate Governement. This may allow them to exit from Afghanistan into a land of greater proximity to all parties concerned. How this will play out could have serious repercussions.
The clouds of war and chaos are certainly descending on Kashmir. It will require a lot of sacrifices from the local populace if they want a home land. It needs to remain an internal struggle and this is the most painful bit of this whole episode. I wish the Kashmiri leaders had helped Paklands in the 60s to resolve this issue.
Let us however see how this cookie crumbles.
A

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## TheTallGuy

@araz


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## BATMAN

araz said:


> I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Trump may have knowingly and willingly put Indians under pressure and Modi is trying to relieve this pressure by asking the forces to intervene in Kashmir. The likelihood is either that the UN Steps in giving India face and settles Kashmir down. We are also into August so come October the snow will start and movement will become progressively difficult. So they might want to exert control before the winter sets in.
> This is interesting in:-
> A. How Pakistan plays this. We are in a very difficult political and strategic situation. Hate it as we might we cannot intervene militarily because then Indians will get back to their original line of Kashmir terror is the result of Pakistani intervention. However we cannot ignore this either.
> B. How does the world react especially China and Russia. There are many permutations to this but all lead to a human8tarian disaster.
> C. The US great game . Is this a ploy to occupy the regional powers while extracting the majority of its soldiesrs from Afghanistan. Looking at their history they have done this before. The other more simplistic situation is the grounds being prepared for final action of the powers that be in Kashmir. Do they then take this aituation to boot India out of Kashmir and set up shop in Kashmir under UN auspices to eventually set up a state of Kashmir and set up a protectorate Governement. This may allow them to exit from Afghanistan into a land of greater proximity to all parties concerned. How this will play out could have serious repercussions.
> The clouds of war and chaos are certainly descending on Kashmir. It will require a lot of sacrifices from the local populace if they want a home land. It needs to remain an internal struggle and this is the most painful bit of this whole episode. I wish the Kashmiri leaders had helped Paklands in the 60s to resolve this issue.
> Let us however see how this cookie crumbles.
> A



Hi, IMO current military buildup has nothing to do with Trump's offer of mediation between Ind /Pak.
I don't expect Indian establishment to react like a 5 year old kid.
There must be some other driving factor or plan.

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## araz

TheTallGuy said:


> @araz


As I have said there will be release of pressure from the Kashmir situation to involve Paklands. This may also translate into Bajwa's extension as the Chief cannot go at this juncture. This situation is bad in that it is ill thought out and once war starts it will have a momentum of its own. 
A



BATMAN said:


> Hi, IMO current military buildup has nothing to do with Trump's offer of mediation between Ind /Pak.
> I don't expect Indian establishment to behave like a 5 year old kid.
> There must be some other driving factor or plan.


I have merely set out a few points for discussion. Trump's support and to be honest their think tanks have been saying this for some time that the biggest carrot to dangle in front of Paklands maybe Kashmir. India had 700000 forces permanently stationed in Kashmir. The terrain may not be suitable for soldiers for long so they might want things to simmer with Pak lands with air engagements. 
We need to see how our friends will respond as well. Let us see what comes out of China for instance.
There are so many permutations to this.
A

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## TheTallGuy

araz said:


> they might want things to simmer with Pak lands with air engagements.



i am afraid this exactly whats gonna happen, they have already place 100+ units in IHK for sake of exercises..

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## BATMAN

araz said:


> I have merely set out a few points for discussion. Trump's support and to be honest their think tanks have been saying this for some time that the biggest carrot to dangle in front of Paklands maybe Kashmir. India had 700000 forces permanently stationed in Kashmir. The terrain may not be suitable for soldiers for long so they might want things to simmer with Pak lands with air engagements.
> We need to see how our friends will respond as well. Let us see what comes out of China for instance.
> There are so many permutations to this.
> A



If India is playing the US game than this game is dangerous for Pakistan.


----------



## araz

BATMAN said:


> If India is playing the US game than this game is dangerous for Pakistan.


The definition of danger has changed in this whole scenario. The lower our reserves to fight back the higher the risk of Nuke exchange and annihilation on both sides. We have not got 200 odd nukes to play doll with.
A



TheTallGuy said:


> i am afraid this exactly whats gonna happen, they have already place 100+ units in IHK for sake of exercises..


Do you know whether they have added to their inventory or whether they are still relying on old weapons. I understand that the 27/2 scenario was a different situation altogether but still it did put IAF on the defensive in spite of their "we downed an F16 with out Mig21 charade" even when the whole world has seen all 4 mijjjjiles intact on the Abhi none done plane. Help would be appreciated.
A

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## NA71

Pak should consult with its reliable partners/friends ...media analysts are saying Indians trying to expand LoC further into Azad Kashmir(Azad Kashmir) as a strategic move. 

Yes, some important decisions have been made in today's security meeting headed by PM. Aug 6 to 8 is critical.


----------



## SIPRA

NA71 said:


> Aug 6 to 8 is critical.



Why?


----------



## NA71

RIWWIR said:


> Why?



Indian forces all yatris & other tourists to leave Kashmir land before 6th August...all educational institutions closed down....Indian Army fresh deployment will be completed in those dates....(I am quoting all these details through Indian media NDTV/IndiaToday/DDNEWS).

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## SIPRA

NA71 said:


> Indian forces all yatris & other tourists to leave Kashmir land before 6th August...all educational institutions closed down....Indian Army fresh deployment will be completed in those dates....(I am quoting all these details through Indian media NDTV/IndiaToday/DDNEWS).



Thanks.


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

5 minutes, 22 seconds








JF17 Speed 1,800 km/hr
Distance 100 km (example)

Time : 5 min 22 seconds !!

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## Quibbler

Looks correct. But what is the point ?

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## Imran Khan

YE TO HADD HO GAI BHI

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

5 minute main article 1 to 370 all torn up

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## Goenitz

bhai... both way is the same... if enemy is in your range, so are you

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## Yaseen1

i think we should start air raids at indian army sites from today night and destroy their command and control system in kashmir


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## Aryan0395

Okay but Brahmos is thrice as fast as fighter aircraft and also doesnt require long time to be prepared for launch as a ballistic missile.
So go ahead and calculate how much time it would take to reach Pakistan...
what an idiotic thread!

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

15 million residents ready to pick up arms to fight against Indians on ground




15,000,000 people

There are only hand full of bullets in Indian soldiers possession

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## hunter_hunted

Quibbler said:


> Looks correct. But what is the point ?



quick jet service


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Aryan0395 said:


> Okay but Brahmos is thrice as fast as fighter aircraft and also doesnt require long time to be prepared for launch as a ballistic missile.
> So go ahead and calculate how much time it would take to reach Pakistan...
> what an idiotic thread!






Sure sure. We saw that on 27/02/2019.......


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Once the route to escape is gone it will be Kashmiri people's punches and kicks on Indian faces

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## Aryan0395

BTW calculation is wrong....as JF 17 wont achieve 1800kmph right from the runway....there is period for accelration so that would add more time to you 5 min 22sec.....also no air force goes supersonic over residential areas so factor that in too.....plus the time to achieve the altitude required to fly at 1800kmph.....so i say its more like twice of that with all these complexities.....I am sure a mathematician will be able to get the exact time...
You're welcome.

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## Trumpcard

You just gave away your plan on an open forum :/

You just gave away your plan on an open forum :/


Yaseen1 said:


> i think we should start air raids at indian army sites from today night and destroy their command and control system in kashmir


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

No thank you tea is fantastic








Trumpcard said:


> You just gave away your plan on an open forum :/
> You just gave away your plan on an open forum :/




It's more daring to go in .....chest thumping, in 5 minutes india can't even pull up their chaddi while doing their toilet work outside in streets

Put my thread on national Indian TV and start a discussion


Kashmir needs to be freed


----------



## HAIDER

Aryan0395 said:


> Okay but Brahmos is thrice as fast as fighter aircraft and also doesnt require long time to be prepared for launch as a ballistic missile.
> So go ahead and calculate how much time it would take to reach Pakistan...
> what an idiotic thread!


Brahmos is useless in the valley. Here only rifle works and sniper guns work .


----------



## Trumpcard

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> No thank you tea is fantastic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's more daring to go in .....chest thumping, in 5 minutes india can't even pull up their chaddi while doing their toilet work outside in streets
> 
> Put my thread on national Indian TV and start a discussion


Sure, So can we expect you and your allies tonight or tomorrow? 
I am sure it will be an easy walk over for you guys since all Indians would be busy in the acts that you mentioned.


----------



## Maxpane




----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Once the main ports are done Indian are normally ready to call it a day


----------



## Smoke

I'm donating my kidney to my father, how long will it take for me to recover and fight in the war?


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Once the ports are out local bahadur freedom fighters can relclaim their ancestral lands
Fantastic role model for Kashmiri Men/Boys and able men who can lift weapon

Bahadur man







This many people imprisoned







BC indians







See difference is only the AK-47 rifle arm up Kashmiri each with 5 AK-47 and Kashmir will be free till Delhi



Equalize the gun by giving a weapon to Kashmiri population and the indian kutta will be running around begging for mercy

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## third eye

Quibbler said:


> Looks correct. But what is the point ?



My question too.



Yaseen1 said:


> i think we should start air raids at indian army sites from today night and destroy their command and control system in kashmir



Now, this is seriously scary stuff


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Neutralize the gun distribution on ground Kashmir will fall from Indian hand like falling dominos





Need some weapons down in Kashrmir so local people can defend themselves






Kashmiri brave commandoes need soe option so they can fight the battle on ground on equal footing











We tried waving flags
We tried the demonstrations
We have tried going to UN
We have tried to offer peace option
We tried human chain
We tried lighting candle


Trump & Imran Khan tried to offer olive branch did not work


Now Start handing out 2 guns per Kashmiri


----------



## loanranger

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Neutralize the gun distribution on ground Kashmir will fall from Indian hand like falling dominos
> View attachment 572678
> 
> 
> Need some weapons down in Kashrmir so local people can defend themselves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kashmiri brave commandoes need soe option so they can fight the battle on ground on equal footing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We tried waving flags
> We tried the demonstrations
> We have tried going to UN
> We have tried to offer peace option
> We tried human chain
> We tried lighting candle
> 
> 
> Trump & Imran Khan tried to offer olive branch did not work
> 
> 
> Now Start handing out 2 guns per Kashmiri


How ? Cannot air drop them and infiltration has low success rate.....

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## rajiv sharma

Darth Vader said:


> Tomorrows Headlines on Indian channels
> Brave IAF Pilots went deep inside Pakistan , Bombed militants and supporting ISI safehouses .
> 100000 Terrorist and Pakistan army soldiers dead.


hello sir , do you also play star wars game , the one from lucas films . darth vader is my favorite character apart from the emperor , i posses gear level thirteen . BTW your post was not that funny .


----------



## Darth Vader

rajiv sharma said:


> hello sir , do you also play star wars game , the one from lucas films . darth vader is my favorite character apart from the emperor , i posses gear level thirteen . BTW your post was not that funny .







These days Ace Combat

Bud you do kinda expect these stories coming from indian media

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## litman

off topic but they have taken kashmir and we cant hang kalbhushan. we cant ban bollywood in our cinemas. we cant even ban indians on pdf. i dont know why we are so "mature".

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## TsAr

dray / Rain Man said:


> It's not about the distance of your goals, but the size of your balls.


Ask abhinandan, he got a glimpse of our balls on 27th Feb.

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## dray / Rain Man

TsAr said:


> Ask abhinandan, he got a glimpse of our balls on 27th Feb.



Yeah, he shot down your best plane, had a tea with swag, and came back in less than 72 hours, we saw you shivering.

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## dray / Rain Man

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Now Start handing out 2 guns per Kashmiri



But do you really have the money to buy so many guns?

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## Trailer23

dray / Rain Man said:


> Yeah, he shot down your best plane, had a tea with swag, and came back in less than 72 hours, we saw you shivering.


So far, not a single establishment (Govt./Media) has bought your ridiculous claim. I highly suggest you first bring the evidence & then talk trash.

"Back up or Shut up" is the name of the game. We're NOT a nation that goes about making hero's out of nobody's. Infact its the other way 'round - our nobody's turn out to be *Hero's*.







If my 'shivering' you mean 'celebrating', yeah - that is exactly what we were doing. The Nation of Pakistan is still talking about the events of 27th February. We weren't in India, but did see your TV Anchors screaming at the Camera demanding the return of the...eh...Her0.

Lets see your Hero suiting up for another flight against PAF. Probably pussy out during Taxi...


dray / Rain Man said:


> But do you really have the money to buy so many guns?


Is it really your concern? Are you concerned about us getting the money or acquiring the ammo? Make up your mind...

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## aliyusuf

Pests are beginning to come out of the woodwork.


----------



## HAIDER

Yesterday ex Air Chief Shahid Latif told media , on 27th Isreali advisors were in Indian command center in Kashmir.

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## NA71

HAIDER said:


> Yesterday ex Air Chief Shahid Latif told media , on 27th Isreali advisors were in Indian command center in Kashmir.



I said it will be revealed gradually......the word *Advisers* is the catch. *@TheTallGuy.*....it is the best time to release clips of PAF ground attack carried out on 27/2....


----------



## Trailer23




----------



## TheTallGuy

NA71 said:


> I said it will be revealed gradually......the word *Advisers* is the catch. *@TheTallGuy.*....it is the best time to release clips of PAF ground attack carried out on 27/2....



ever think why we know this? Somebody has told us in custody...

Releasing info is of no use now...you better get ready for what is coming!

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## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> ever think why we know this? Somebody has told us in custody...
> 
> Releasing info is of no use now...you better get ready for what is coming!


This time Jets would not be involved...brief exchange of firepower on ground...if stretches for a day or two ...it might be some air action.

The gair mulik factor was first discussed by Hilali sb on NewsOne Chennel....later more and more channels covered it in detail. Now latest is from AM Latif Sb.


----------



## TheTallGuy

I am afraid short of nuke full scale war is about to erupt! whole purpose of existence of large armed forces of Pakistan have been swept a side in one calculated and internationally organised move..Now Its upto Pakistan and Pakistan Armed Forces which have been fed and bred to fight will fight for there purpose of which they were created.


----------



## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> I am afraid short of nuke full scale war is about to erupt! whole purpose of existence of large armed forces of Pakistan have been swept a side in one calculated and internationally organised move..Now Its upto Pakistan and Pakistan Armed Forces which have been fed and bred to fight will fight for there purpose of which they were created.


IA your fears will be diminished gradually.... Just wait and see..LOC is silent for last 24 hrs.


----------



## Talon

TheTallGuy said:


> I am afraid short of nuke full scale war is about to erupt! whole purpose of existence of large armed forces of Pakistan have been swept a side in one calculated and internationally organised move..Now Its upto Pakistan and Pakistan Armed Forces which have been fed and bred to fight will fight for there purpose of which they were created.


I was thinking the same *Is escalation ladder in Pakistan's hands now? *If answer is Yes then Indians have outsmarted us? I am no expert so asking this from all experts here on PDF.

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## Ahmet Pasha

Situation is very sh!tty for sure.
Few options on table.
Too many snakes inside.
Too little money in coffers.
Capacity issues.


Hodor said:


> I was thinking the same *Is escalation ladder in Pakistan's hands now? *If answer is Yes then Indians have outsmarted us? I am no expert so asking this from all experts here on PDF.


----------



## HawkEye27

A friend of mine got this from his boss. Explains a lot

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## NA71

HawkEye27 said:


> View attachment 572928
> 
> 
> A friend of mine got this from his boss. Explains a lot




immediate points to be noticed from the above poster:

1. it's now crystal clear that SqLdr Hassan Kill-SU30MKI
2. SqLdr Noman Kill - MiG21
3. F16s/JF17 from AB Minhas for A2A role
4. Strike Package -JF17/Mirages for A2G role
5. EW by DA-20
6. Air Combat Controlled from AB Muhsaf.


----------



## Reichsmarschall

Jackdaws said:


> Yes. Pak will retaliate. They also have a constituency to cater to.


lol you were spot on


----------



## NA71

#TheTallGuy look at these tweets....


----------



## BATMAN

HAIDER said:


> Yesterday ex Air Chief Shahid Latif told media , on 27th Isreali advisors were in Indian command center in Kashmir.



This explains why Imran Khan didn't allowed to bomb command center!



Trailer23 said:


>


Unfortunately Indians refused to watch Imran Khan's parliamentary speech.
Now what next?



NA71 said:


> This time Jets would not be involved..



I bet not... 
IAF will prefer to eject, instead of crossing LoC! If it's still LoC!


----------



## NA71

BATMAN said:


> I bet not...
> IAF will prefer to eject, instead of crossing LoC! If it's still LoC!



 I speculated Jets would come in later...in the next episode...but Today's PAF brief crossing LOc proved me wrong....Now Pakistan's response would be through Air.

The news is indeed true and means a lot.. though it was for very small period of time but what matters is "the intent".

The question is ...would IAF dare to replicate?


----------



## Jackdaws

Reichsmarschall said:


> lol you were spot on


Ever think leaders just keep their constituents happy while ensuring things don't totally spiral out of control?


----------



## Comfortably Numb

dray / Rain Man said:


> But do you really have the money to buy so many guns?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NA71

is every thing OK? ...intense air activities over Karachi......multiple Jets ....I avoid such posting but it is intense.


----------



## truthseeker2010

NA71 said:


> is every thing OK? ...intense air activities over Karachi......multiple Jets ....I avoid such posting but it is intense.



Going to greet guests from south!


----------



## Trailer23

HawkEye27 said:


> View attachment 572928
> 
> 
> A friend of mine got this from his boss. Explains a lot


No mention of Artist.


----------



## aliyusuf

NA71 said:


> is every thing OK? ...intense air activities over Karachi......multiple Jets ....I avoid such posting but it is intense.


I am in DHA and have not seen, nor heard of anyone seeing, such activities. At which location in Karachi are you seeing such activities?


----------



## TheTallGuy

i am just waiting..and waiting and waiting! 

Honestly Today PAF did a pressure test up north...hoping they do it too! and @NA71 i am going to stick at 8 Kill claim as it is the truth...

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## ACE OF THE AIR

NA71 said:


> is every thing OK? ...intense air activities over Karachi......multiple Jets ....I avoid such posting but it is intense.


There's nothing ...


----------



## MastanKhan

yellow said:


> View attachment 573211



What does a nation's poverty has to do with buying weapons---?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dazzler

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159444603168124928


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheTallGuy said:


> i am just waiting..and waiting and waiting!
> 
> Honestly Today PAF did a pressure test up north...hoping they do it too! and @NA71 i am going to stick at 8 Kill claim as it is the truth...


8, however, isn’t enough!!! Is 80 a too far a shot?!?!?


----------



## Dazzler

There goes IAF


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159498578265427974

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

HAIDER said:


> Yesterday ex Air Chief Shahid Latif told media , on 27th Isreali advisors were in Indian command center in Kashmir.


And, they must have felt like their past Air Chief - Ohhh!!! Nur Han isn’t in our enemy ranks!!! What a relief.....


----------



## GriffinsRule

The trend continues. Another couple of medals coming for these two pilots lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Dazzler said:


> There goes IAF
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159498578265427974


Wish to see them flying more....



GriffinsRule said:


> The trend continues. Another couple of medals coming for these two pilots lol


When you have pilot to a/c ratio of 0.8 you are ready to shower all the medals of the world on your pilots including the “Purple Heart”....


----------



## Comfortably Numb

MastanKhan said:


> What does a nation's poverty has to do with buying weapons---?


It certainly has some to do with mocking others

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Dazzler said:


> There goes IAF
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159498578265427974


IAF is always the IAF....

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## Dazzler

PAF is at high vigil, at lease two fighters crossed supersonic and came back just hours ago.

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## Talon

TheTallGuy said:


> i am just waiting..and waiting and waiting!
> 
> Honestly Today PAF did a pressure test up north...hoping they do it too! and @NA71 i am going to stick at 8 Kill claim as it is the truth...


Tall guy making Tall claims... locking 8 aircrafts and shooting them down are not the same thing and repeating this again and again wont make it the truth.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TheTallGuy

Hodor said:


> Tall guy making Tall claims... locking 8 aircrafts and shooting them down are not the same thing and repeating this again and again wont make it the truth.



It is 8 Kills (3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000I, 3 x MiG-21BISON) time will tell i am right

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## The Accountant

TheTallGuy said:


> It is 8 Kills (3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000I, 3 x MiG-21BISON) time will tell i am right


And ur source ?


----------



## PurpleButcher

TheTallGuy said:


> It is 8 Kills (3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000I, 3 x MiG-21BISON) time will tell i am right


too good to be true


----------



## Bratva

TheTallGuy said:


> It is 8 Kills (3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000I, 3 x MiG-21BISON) time will tell i am right



Time has already spoken. Get along with time or be a laughing stock

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## TheTallGuy

Bratva said:


> Time has already spoken. Get along with time or be a laughing stock



I am not enforcing you to believe me..we can always agree to disagree.


----------



## Bratva

TheTallGuy said:


> I am not enforcing you to believe me..we can always agree to disagree.



Your imaginary posts are degrading the quality of discussions . It is being quoted elsewhere as a sign of how delusional Pakistanis have become. Do you want to reinforce everyone impression in such times that Pakistanis are delusional?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TheTallGuy

Bratva said:


> Your imaginary posts are degrading the quality of discussions . It is being quoted elsewhere as a sign of how delusional Pakistanis have become. Do you want to reinforce everyone impression in such times that Pakistanis are delusional?



May be you do not know?


----------



## Bratva

TheTallGuy said:


> May be you do not know?



Same can be said about you. Whoever is feeding you such stuff, You don't need to parrot his falsehoods and make the rest of Pakistani's look bad.


----------



## The Eagle

TheTallGuy said:


> May be you do not know?



Anything contradictory to official stance, is harmful as well as degrading in broader aspects. This is not just about you or any other member as like anyone else, you have the liberty to express your opinion but out there, for the hostiles it shows how Pakistanis are becoming Indians. And in the end, people used to quote this Forum to vent their frustration and feed their obsession. You made your point not just once but repeatedly but the same is not inline with official stance, hence, you are advised to not to repeat anymore until & unless some other "Order of Day" is being issued.

Everyone including me will be so joyful if had it been the case officially but we have certain obligations in regard to support our Officials.

Regards,

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## Raider 21

TheTallGuy said:


> It is 8 Kills (3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000I, 3 x MiG-21BISON) time will tell i am right


Do not confuse 8 locks with kills.

Cheers !!!



Bratva said:


> Time has already spoken. Get along with time or be a laughing stock


Sir Fauad carries on with the legendary Hatmi family. FAT HAT, SAD HAT and MAD HAT......hopefully more HATs or similar legacies to come...

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## NA71

baqai said:


> same



Please aviod such posting ...I did share some real time info...but one forum member reminded me ...it is against the forum rules and it will not serve any positive purpose. I deleted all posts.

Today, Another Sr. Member asked members to refrain from posting Operational details of forces.....Forum is being watched.

Pakistan Zindabad.

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## M.SAAD

TheTallGuy said:


> It is 8 Kills (3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000I, 3 x MiG-21BISON) time will tell i am right





And what is your source??


----------



## The Eagle

First of all, posting any update in regard to movement of Pakistan Armed Forces etc is not allowed. Secondly, this is not the thread to discuss as such.

Anyone violating the rule under security reasons; will not be reminded anymore but action will be taken accordingly, hence, we need to act responsibly.

Regards,

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## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> I am not enforcing you to believe me..we can always agree to disagree.


wait....


----------



## TheTallGuy

Bratva said:


> Same can be said about you. Whoever is feeding you such stuff, You don't need to parrot his falsehoods and make the rest of Pakistani's look bad.





The Eagle said:


> Anything contradictory to official stance, is harmful as well as degrading in broader aspects. This is not just about you or any other member as like anyone else, you have the liberty to express your opinion but out there, for the hostiles it shows how Pakistanis are becoming Indians. And in the end, people used to quote this Forum to vent their frustration and feed their obsession. You made your point not just once but repeatedly but the same is not inline with official stance, hence, you are advised to not to repeat anymore until & unless some other "Order of Day" is being issued.
> 
> Everyone including me will be so joyful if had it been the case officially but we have certain obligations in regard to support our Officials.
> 
> Regards,



Oo boy! Things are dead serious..Ok Sir Jee! I will do as you said! i will not post! today i will agree to disagree.. but that doesnt mean i am wrong or you are correct. if an official instruction are the cause i respect that..but mind you i am no military..i am free...and it is an open forum..free speech! beauty of open discussion.

operational details or deployment is a no no so dont expect me to indulge in that.



NA71 said:


> wait....



i am waiting



M.SAAD said:


> And what is your source??



Lot of data collected and filtered into information


----------



## Salza

enquencher said:


> Iaf enetered..now show ur response



LOL, a befitting response was given to your country which they will never forget 

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



Crixus said:


> Please dont ruin the fun .........................



Your fun just lasted for few hours even that fun was based on fake strike as IAF never hit anything. Shame!

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



Surenas said:


> No, you can't and you won't.



LOL, we CAN and we DID 

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> So technically and tactically " The Surgical Strike " has been completed---enemy destroyed---all bombs hit target---no aircraft damaged---all aircraft returned home safely---.
> 
> Now---Pakistani boys & Girls---challenge that---.



LOL, *challenged!!! *within few hours and their so called surgical strike turned out to be a farce. 

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



Rollno21 said:


> Boys and girls Response ,did not happen



You wrote so soon. Response happened and it was deadly for your IAF and Vipin's brigade sitting in that HQ

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Smoke

Salza said:


> LOL, a befitting response was given to your country which they will never forget
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> Your fun just lasted for few hours even that fun was based on fake strike as IAF never hit anything. Shame!
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, we CAN and we DID
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, *challenged!!! *within few hours and their so called surgical strike turned out to be a farce.
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote so soon. Response happened and it was deadly for your IAF and Vipin's brigade sitting in that HQ
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



Please don't forget how all of these members disappeared from PDF for months on.. I guess some still haven't returned, probably too busy reapplying burnol.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Salza

Surenas said:


> Anyone believing this Pakistani version must be either deranged or a naive child. Probably the most ridiculous explaining and excuse I've ever heard.



LOL as it turned out to be Indian version was indeed deranged or came from a general/politician who is nothing different than a naive child. And yes Probably the most ridiculous explaining and excuse we all heard. [:d]

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



Smoke said:


> Please don't forget how all of these members disappeared from PDF for months on.. I guess some still haven't returned, probably too busy reapplying burnol.



Exactly, some are banned recently but most of them stopped posting after Feb 27.



MastanKhan said:


> Now---if the Paf challenges in kind and makes a counter strike---then we will see who has the ballz---.



Yes @MastanKhan you posted this on Feb 26.

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Salza said:


> LOL, a befitting response was given to your country which they will never forget
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> Your fun just lasted for few hours even that fun was based on fake strike as IAF never hit anything. Shame!
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, we CAN and we DID
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, *challenged!!! *within few hours and their so called surgical strike turned out to be a farce.
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote so soon. Response happened and it was deadly for your IAF and Vipin's brigade sitting in that HQ
> 
> (Replying to his post dated Feb 26)


Brutal is your middle name....

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## Salza

Surenas said:


> Apparently in Pakistani dictionary attacking an open target on its soil with fighter jets who crossed into Pakistani air space doesn't amount to anything significant, because nothing has been destroyed. I've got news for you. I'm an Iranian, and anyone that dares to cross Iranian air space will be shot down instantly, which counts for most countries.



This loser Iranian has also stopped posting after Feb 26.

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



Signalian said:


> IK said that if India strikes, Pakistan will retaliate. The ball is in his court now and ofcourse Military's also.



And he did 

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would love to be proven wrong---.
> 
> The Paf can smack me in the face---slap me---humiliate me---degrade me---by proving that they are someone special by their actions---.
> 
> *I am ready for my humiliation---so let us see when it comes from the Paf---*.



 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



unbiasedopinion said:


> Lets give pakistan government some face saving routes too.. After all Imran Khan is a pathan. He asked for actionable proof and we have given him by taking action. He can visit the place and see the terrorist camps destroyed there and consider that as proof..*now it is his time to take action on this.*



LOL, haven't seen you posted after Feb 27 embarrassment. You perhaps wanted to chewing your own words now.

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



Falcon26 said:


> You are too senior to know the ramifications of what just happened. IAF planes entered Pakistan, did the deed and went home. This is the headlines the world over, not face-saving escapes by Pakistan. For the first time, a nuclear armed country has done this to another nuclear armed country. India has always said Pakistan is a banana republic. Today it proved it.



You spoke too quickly that time bro 

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ultima Thule

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You have no clue what Paf was going to do---nothing---. According to them---no harm was done---.
> 
> But they never expected the reaction of anger from the pakistani public and the politicians---.
> 
> Ask the Paf to release the messages that it received from the pakistanis---.
> 
> And now we know---it was a 1/2 arsed reaction---let 1 / 2 of enemy sqdrn escape---let a top of the line submarine escape---and we also have news they let the enemy aircraft carrier escape---.
> 
> Then they gave the enemy all their technical and electronic capabilities---for what---two measely aircraft and a helicopter---.
> 
> So-=--don't strut and preen around---.


So what do want for PAF destroy whole sqn of IAF, and destroy their sub, and enter the Nuclear war with India @MastanKhan


----------



## Salza

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You have no clue what Paf was going to do---nothing---. According to them---no harm was done---.
> 
> But they never expected the reaction of anger from the pakistani public and the politicians---.
> 
> Ask the Paf to release the messages that it received from the pakistanis---.
> 
> And now we know---it was a 1/2 arsed reaction---let 1 / 2 of enemy sqdrn escape---let a top of the line submarine escape---and we also have news they let the enemy aircraft carrier escape---.
> 
> Then they gave the enemy all their technical and electronic capabilities---for what---two measely aircraft and a helicopter---.
> 
> So-=--don't strut and preen around---.



LOL. You can beat around the bush all day long but you won't change. Don't worry there will be more surprises for you, if any such limited fight occurs again and I believe its not the far. Fact of the matter is, PAF also bombed them (capability demonstration) on 6 different locations which you conveniently ignores all the time and never question IAF feeble air defense capability while keep bashing PAF unnecessarily 'most' of the times. 

Any country who got bombed on 6 different places and loosing 3 aircrafts(incldg a heli.) would had gone for the revenge unless a shut up call they received was massive.

Now after few months, they might come with better resources and plans but we are not sleeping as well. Our response will be equally deadly and more befitting.



Game.Invade said:


> Best route for PAF would be intruding into Indian airspace, jettisoning fuel tanks into mountains & call it even..



We did better.

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to understand that the Paf has acted like a coward for the last 2 decades---.
> 
> It strutted around with their F16's shooting down third rate russian aircraft during the first afghan war in the 80's---now when real enemy fighters are around and doing an incursion---the Paf fighters are nowhere to be seen---.



Oh boy, you were going crazy on Feb 26. Was having a field day in bashing PAF I guess 

P.S. enjoying reading the old posts made on feb 26..people (Pakistanis) were really angry until page 124 . This is indeed a historic thread.

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## Salza

The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> This is how pakistan responded. "India only killed some trees" we can grow it again , so no worries ".
> And most of Pakistanis believing in their lies for face saving bcz they don't have capabilities to counter strike.
> This is how it is gonna end " Pulwama".



LOL, another ignorant Indian post dated Feb 26.



Rafi said:


> My credibility is not my weiner that it can be dragged. How come you are so excited, we will respond in our own way.



Kudos to you. How you replied raged Pakistanis on Feb 26 one by one :d



Enigma_ said:


> Have some shame @ Pakistani posters defending the Air Force after this. Good God have a look in the mirror. Delusional idiots.



So who later turned out to be delusional idiots in the end ?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Thorough Pro

you were quick to jump mother fucker, you stinky bhartis always suck dick.



KRAIT said:


> Yeah like we all know what happened yesterday.



you sure love to suck dicks.........suck it mother fucker



Armani said:


> And Indian media is your source
> 
> PAF attempted incursion after IAF showed them their stars yesterday. Chased away in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> The crash proven to be Mi-17, as ZP tail designation is only carried by those helos. And that too technical snag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop taking credit for things you didn't do and start showing some balls. Come and bring jets into sovereign India (as I don't know KP is disputed territory) if PAF has got guts.


----------



## Salza

KRAIT said:


> Pakistanis should ask that how come all the IAF planes went back unscratched. All 12 of them. What was PAF doing?



Did Indians ask the same regarding IAF ?

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)



dray / Rain Man said:


> Meaningless words......grow some balls and strike back.



Had you knew what was coming very next day, you would had never posted this. 

(Replying to his post dated Feb 26)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WoKonTha

enquencher said:


> Iaf enetered..now show ur response



Hahahaha maza aa gya phir response dekh ke? This thread aged really well.


----------



## CaptainNemo

Tweeting from his personal account:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164882423101960192
Truth coming out gradually. One Mig 21, one SU30, many artillery gun positions, many soldiers on LOC and dream of shooting F16. 
What will be the fate of cover up award to Wing Comd Abhinandan who in himself is an upright second generation soldier as we know him?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Smoke

CaptainNemo said:


> Tweeting from his personal account:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164882423101960192
> Truth coming out gradually. One Mig 21, one SU30, many artillery gun positions, many soldiers on LOC and dream of shooting F16.
> What will be the fate of cover up award to Wing Comd Abhinandan who in himself is an upright second generation soldier as we know him?



Aye haayeee DG saab MAZAAA AAGAYAA.. HOR WAJAO INDIANS DE


----------



## AMRAAM

CaptainNemo said:


> Tweeting from his personal account:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164882423101960192
> Truth coming out gradually. One Mig 21, one SU30, many artillery gun positions, many soldiers on LOC and dream of shooting F16.
> What will be the fate of cover up award to Wing Comd Abhinandan who in himself is an upright second generation soldier as we know him?



I'd like to see more details about SU-30 kill like the place it hit the ground, sqn or pilot names.


----------



## The Eagle

enquencher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100239666135982080



See, this thread aged really well.


----------



## Trailer23

With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.

The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).

I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.


























@Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
@airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
@assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
2 | Like Like:
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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad


Legendary.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TsAr

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad


Beautiful


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## PakSword

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad


Wow.. start selling them online...


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## Ultima Thule

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad


Second last is best

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## airomerix

Excellent I must say! 

How can I get them? @Trailer23

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## Shane

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad


Excellent choice of pictures but the stealing of "your" ideas is a bit of a stretch here, lol.

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## Ghessan

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
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> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad



very nice, how can i get one @Trailer23


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## Signalian

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
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> 
> View attachment 582227
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> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Myth_buster_1

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad





would have been even more sweet if your shirt was "MADE and PRINTED IN INDIA".

and bro just FYI the shirt with triangle picture has a Su-30MK not MKI.


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## Liquidmetal

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad



Just fooking Brilliant!


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## Trailer23

Path-Finder said:


> Legendary.





TsAr said:


> Beautiful





Liquidmetal said:


> Just fooking Brilliant!


Thanks guys...


PakSword said:


> Wow.. start selling them online...





airomerix said:


> Excellent I must say! How can I get them?





Ghessan said:


> very nice, how can i get one


Sincerely guys, its (one) of my passions to have a website where I can sell my T-Shirt designs, but it costs a lot.

Just to give you an idea of the cost...
1. The T-shirts can cost somewhere from Dhs. 20/- to Dhs. 45/- (depending on Brand).
2. Some of the artwork had to be done on Adobe Illustrator (not Photoshop), for which I had to hire a guy & he totally ripped me off.
3. Finally, when one does single pieces - it costs a WHOLE LOT MORE. No one will do Screen Printing. DTG is the new rage, but I was fortunate enough to find a Pakistani guy who did it for me.


Myth_buster_1 said:


> would have been even more sweet if your shirt was "MADE and PRINTED IN INDIA".
> 
> and bro just FYI the shirt with triangle picture has a Su-30MK not MKI.


Even though the company where I had both shirts printed is owned by a Pakistani, but all his workers were Indian. You should've seen the look on their face when they opened the file.

And yes, I know its a not a MKi, but I was looking for an artwork & couldn't find one (in that particular angle).


Shane said:


> ...but the stealing of "your" ideas is a bit of a stretch here, lol.


I never claimed the art was mine (including the Operation Swift Retort), but the idea of how I used it. That individual took my entire design & started profiting off it.


Signalian said:


> View attachment 582248


You know, DTG is the one process where it could be done (other than Screen Printing). But apparently they have to clean the machine after a number of light colours to get the best result on Black/Dark Colours.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## loanranger

Trailer23 apply for a job in ISPR already.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TOPGUN

Nice job brother looks great


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## Ahmet Pasha

Theres a few rad PakMil designs available on redbubble for US and Canada Pakistanis.


Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad


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## crankthatskunk

@Trailer23 , you should do it on commercial basis, start selling these T shirts, you can do good business. 
Excellent work.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trailer23

loanranger said:


> Trailer23 apply for a job in ISPR already.


Ha ha ha... I don't think ISPR can afford my services [just kidding].

But in all honesty, I think they've set standards pretty low - which explains the crappy music they approve & the lack of new footage used.

The ISPR (Online) Souvenir Shop is weak.
https://www.ispr.gov.pk/products.php

You know the bar has been set pretty low when you have musicians like Sahir Ali Bagga performing for the PAF.





*Proof a talentless singer (left) gets to meet our Hero Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddiqui*
​


Ahmet Pasha said:


> Theres a few rad PakMil designs available on redbubble for US and Canada Pakistanis.


Aisa zulm na kar yaar, Redbubble Delivers all over the World, except...:


Iran

Cuba

Sudan

North Korea

Syria

Crimea
https://help.redbubble.com/hc/en-us/articles/206705143



crankthatskunk said:


> @Trailer23 , you should do it on commercial basis, start selling these T shirts, you can do good business.
> Excellent work.


The thought has crossed my mind a number of times & I have some great ideas for T-Shirts, Polos, Hoddies etc. I even have a design for the website in my mind. Sadly, it costs a lot to produce this stuff & the UAE doesn't allow one to run a business online without getting an approval which costs money too.

The other thing is that other than some of us on PDF, the common Pakistani doesn't really care to search for this stuff online. They're all happy with their Pakistan Cricket replica jerseys.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## crankthatskunk

Trailer23 said:


> Ha ha ha... I don't think ISPR can afford my services [just kidding].
> 
> But in all honesty, I think they've set standards pretty low - which explains the crappy music they approve & the lack of new footage used.
> 
> The ISPR (Online) Souvenir Shop is weak.
> https://www.ispr.gov.pk/products.php
> 
> You know the bar has been set pretty low when you have musicians like Sahir Ali Bagga performing for the PAF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Proof a talentless singer (left) gets to meet our Hero Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddiqui*
> ​
> Aisa zulm na kar yaar, Redbubble Delivers all over the World, except...:
> 
> 
> Iran
> 
> Cuba
> 
> Sudan
> 
> North Korea
> 
> Syria
> 
> Crimea
> https://help.redbubble.com/hc/en-us/articles/206705143
> 
> 
> The thought has crossed my mind a number of times & I have some great ideas for T-Shirts, Polos, Hoddies etc. I even have a design for the website in my mind. Sadly, it costs a lot to produce this stuff & the UAE doesn't allow one to run a business online without getting an approval which costs money too.
> 
> The other thing is that other than some of us on PDF, the common Pakistani doesn't really care to search for this stuff online. They're all happy with their Pakistan Cricket replica jerseys.



What a shame, otherwise, we could have arranged investment for you. We all can chip in, if needed. 
But if the market is not there, there is no point of investing or in other words wasting money. I understand due to costs involved, the price of the merchandises would be high, which is all well and good for all of us who live outside Pakistan, but you need Pakistani customers more.


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## The Eagle

Can we move this discussion to members club please.

Regards,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Thorough Pro

SAB is an awesome singer




Trailer23 said:


> Ha ha ha... I don't think ISPR can afford my services [just kidding].
> 
> But in all honesty, I think they've set standards pretty low - which explains the crappy music they approve & the lack of new footage used.
> 
> The ISPR (Online) Souvenir Shop is weak.
> https://www.ispr.gov.pk/products.php
> 
> You know the bar has been set pretty low when you have musicians like Sahir Ali Bagga performing for the PAF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Proof a talentless singer (left) gets to meet our Hero Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddiqui*
> ​
> Aisa zulm na kar yaar, Redbubble Delivers all over the World, except...:
> 
> 
> Iran
> 
> Cuba
> 
> Sudan
> 
> North Korea
> 
> Syria
> 
> Crimea
> https://help.redbubble.com/hc/en-us/articles/206705143
> 
> 
> The thought has crossed my mind a number of times & I have some great ideas for T-Shirts, Polos, Hoddies etc. I even have a design for the website in my mind. Sadly, it costs a lot to produce this stuff & the UAE doesn't allow one to run a business online without getting an approval which costs money too.
> 
> The other thing is that other than some of us on PDF, the common Pakistani doesn't really care to search for this stuff online. They're all happy with their Pakistan Cricket replica jerseys.


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## khansaheeb

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad


Pics of two on fire falling Indian planes would be good with the Pakistani jets. Excellent t-shirts put them up on amazon.com or ebay and I will buy one (but have xxlarge size for me and xxxlarge for the Americans!)


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## krash

Trailer23 said:


> With the DxB Air Show '19 around the corner, I took the liberty of having my own designs printed.
> 
> The prints were DTG [Direct-to-Garment] & each costed me Dhs. 100/- (excluding the t-shirt).
> 
> I just hope the *PAF Falcons* guy doesn't go bout stealing my ideas again for his own profit.
> 
> View attachment 582229
> 
> 
> View attachment 582225
> 
> 
> View attachment 582228
> 
> 
> View attachment 582226
> 
> 
> View attachment 582227
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Oscar @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @loanranger @Maxpane @maximuswarrior @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @Myth_buster_1 @NA71 @Rafi @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Starlord @Ozee @Pakhtoon yum @pakistanipower @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Umair Nawaz @Vortex @war&peace @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @Major Sam @PakSword @crankthatskunk @thebaj @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Zarmeena Rashad



The white one is especially good. Any plans to market them?


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## Bratva

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011941684764672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011783995547649


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## Haris Ali2140

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011941684764672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011783995547649


In a trailer for upcoming bollywood trailer.


----------



## Trailer23

Naturally...it was much expected from the incoming IAF Chief that he'd speak about the encounter on 27th Feb.


----------



## The Eagle

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011941684764672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011783995547649



As long as it is about an Indian speaking on the matter; we will never read all truth. Don't expect much than the usual lines. India made claims and despite being rubbed by foreign sources as well; they aren't ready to move an inch towards logic & sanity. Such denial is indeed a joke to the growing world but on the same time, a worrisome situation that such infected mindset can go to any length as well. Let's be prepared.


----------



## Haris Ali2140

Trailer23 said:


> Naturally...it was much expected from the incoming IAF Chief that he'd speak about the encounter on 27th Feb.


The title should read as:

"New IAF chief's warning to PAK,
Just let us get Rafales"


----------



## Areesh

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011941684764672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180011783995547649



IAF: we couldn't identify our own mi17 in our own territory and shot it down. We lost its black box too and can't find it till today after more than 9 months 

Also IAF: but we are so good that we shot down F16 by a mig21 and that too in enemy territory

Only a person with only two brain cells working can believe in IAF air chief F16 claim

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## GriffinsRule

They claim it was a twin-seat F-16. The truth will come out on its own over time as pictures of F-16s will keep emerging from flypasts and exercises, and once we have accounted for them all, Indian lies will be laid bare

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## NA71

Very interesting :

*This is the guy who was monitoring PAF’s F-16s when Operation Swift Retort took place*
An airman from the U.S. Air Force’s 56th Equipment Maintenance Squadron was recently awarded the 2018 Air Force International Affairs (IA) Excellence Award.

Master Sgt. Kyle Wilson was recognized for his efforts to monitor Pakistan Air Force’s F-16 fleet to prevent the loss of technology.

According to the press release, Wilson was stationed at Shahbaz air base, Pakistan, from March 2018-2019, serving as the Technical Security Team (TST) superintendent.

Part of his job also involves end-use monitoring of U.S. weapons.

For more information, hit the Source below

http://alert5.com/2019/10/05/this-i...f-16s-when-operation-swift-retort-took-place/

https://www.luke.af.mil/News/Articl...el-award-for-security-of-paf-f-16-technology/

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## Gandhi G in da house

Areesh said:


> Only a person with only two brain cells working can believe in IAF air chief F16 claim



Agreed. But the same thing holds true for PAF claim of shooting down a Sukhoi.


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## NA71

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Agreed. But the same thing holds true for PAF claim of shooting down a Sukhoi.



Invite Russians to count SU's inventory as we did for 16s....

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## Gandhi G in da house

NA71 said:


> Invite Russians to count SU's inventory as we did for 16s....



Nah. We are quite independent that way. Not bound by any contract with the Russians to have them count our Sukhois.

The onus of proof anyway lies on he who makes the claim.


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## Foxtrot Delta

The twin seater that got destroyed mid air was su-30 mki not f-16 proof is there now. For those who know.


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## Riz

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Nah. We are quite independent that way. Not bound by any contract with the Russians to have them count our Sukhois.
> 
> The onus of proof anyway lies on he who makes the claim.


Lol.. We know how u write off 1 SU-30mki ftom your inventory in a fake accident

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## ACE OF THE AIR

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Nah. We are quite independent that way. Not bound by any contract with the Russians to have them count our Sukhois.
> 
> The onus of proof anyway lies on he who makes the claim.


So you have indeed lost an SU


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## Windjammer

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Nah. We are quite independent that way. Not bound by any contract with the Russians to have them count our Sukhois.
> 
> The onus of proof anyway lies on he who makes the claim.


Then try to sell/export even a wheel of SU-30 to a third party.



Gandhi G in da house said:


> Nah. We are quite independent that way. Not bound by any contract with the Russians to have them count our Sukhois.
> *
> The onus of proof anyway lies on he who makes the claim.*


Let's see how good are your recognition abilities.


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

Windjammer said:


> Then try to sell/export even a wheel of SU-30 to a third party.
> 
> 
> Let's see how good are your recognition abilities.



So much work, yet not a single shred of evidence. Save it buddy.


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## khanmubashir

NA71 said:


> Invite Russians to count SU's inventory as we did for 16s....


we don't invite usaf personal r 24/7 at f16 bases keeping an eye on em making sure we don't let Chinese probe em


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## khanasifm

Yes wing commander Abinandan while ejecting from his mig-21 poofed at an f-16 and brought it down, never needed his Missile or guns [emoji123] 

Bravo iaf the world salutes you by creating a history , usaf now getting the technology from India to do the same against ufos, Russians and Chinese


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## masterchief_mirza

Gandhi G in da house said:


> So much work, yet not a single shred of evidence. Save it buddy.


Lying becomes pathological for all Indians eventually.


----------



## Windjammer

Gandhi G in da house said:


> So much work, yet not a single shred of evidence. Save it buddy.


Well it's only the IAF that can determine within hours how many militants it killed on the other side of LOC, yet it takes some Eight months to find out shooting down own chopper in it's front yard.
As for evidence, perhaps someone in India should build up courage to ask the IAF, where exactly they pulled this out from.

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## Ultima Thule

Gandhi G in da house said:


> So much work, yet not a single shred of evidence. Save it buddy.


And you don't have a shred of solid evidence for shooting down our f16 either,and don't talk about those crappy image by IAF after Pentagon confirmed that none of our f16 went missing i will make these kind of image better than IAF because i am a software developer/graphic designer in USA @Ghareeb_Da_Baal


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## Gandhi G in da house

Windjammer said:


> Well it's only the IAF that can determine within hours how many militants it killed on the other side of LOC, yet it takes some Eight months to find out shooting down own chopper in it's front yard.
> As for evidence, perhaps someone in India should build up courage to ask the IAF, where exactly they pulled this out from.



One of those several AMRAAMs your F-16s fired but were dodged by the IAF.



seven0seven said:


> And you don't have a shred of solid evidence for shooting down our f16 either,and don't talk about those crappy image by IAF after Pentagon confirmed that none of our f16 went missing i will make these kind of image better than IAF because i am a software developer/graphic designer in USA @Ghareeb_Da_Baal



I am not claiming India downed an F-16. Well at least the proof is not sufficient. Check my original post on the matter. but there is no proof for the Sukhoi downing as well.


----------



## ziaulislam

Gandhi G in da house said:


> One of those several AMRAAMs your F-16s fired but were dodged by the IAF.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not claiming India downed an F-16. Well at least the proof is not sufficient. Check my original post on the matter. but there is no proof for the Sukhoi downing as well.


i dont know why are we debating mig21, f 16 or su30 MI they have no value in this discussion..as a kill is feat of luck as well
points that are valid are

1. both sides *showed the ability to penetrate each boarder* and *both didn't hit actual targets,* one side claims they* did it on purpose(so we have an explanation),* the other(india) didnt...*so what happened? how did IAF miss? why? ..or are they lying? why?*
2. IAF got confused and shot down its on chopper killing many
3. IAF communication got jammed
4. any future strikes from india will have retaliations, which PAF proved it can do


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## NA71

Gandhi G in da house said:


> One of those several AMRAAMs your F-16s fired but were dodged by the IAF.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not claiming India downed an F-16. Well at least the proof is not sufficient. Check my original post on the matter. but there is no proof for the Sukhoi downing as well.



When experts from LM and Raytheon would be in India ...please ask them ...would any Jet fighter can dodge multiple AIM-120s by maneuvering while it has been locked. Please honestly share their reply.

Once I asked this to my Gora friend ....he replied ...."Crazy F--kers'

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## Gandhi G in da house

NA71 said:


> When experts from LM and Raytheon would be in India ...please ask them ...would any Jet fighter can dodge multiple AIM-120s by maneuvering while it has been locked. Please honestly share their reply.
> 
> Once I asked this to my Gora friend ....he replied ...."Crazy F--kers'



This is not proof.


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## Windjammer

Gandhi G in da house said:


> One of those several AMRAAMs your F-16s fired but were dodged by the IAF.


And certain Indian soldiers grabbed them out of thin air.

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## NA71

Gandhi G in da house said:


> This is not proof.



we got complete proof after watching faces of IAF staff and Air Chief on TV screens...enough to judge the agony caused by PAF.....


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## Gandhi G in da house

ziaulislam said:


> i dont know why are we debating mig21, f 16 or su30 MI they have no value in this discussion..as a kill is feat of luck as well
> points that are valid are
> 
> 1. both sides *showed the ability to penetrate each boarder* and *both didn't hit actual targets,* one side claims they* did it on purpose(so we have an explanation),* the other(india) didnt...*so what happened? how did IAF miss? why? ..or are they lying? why?*
> 2. IAF got confused and shot down its on chopper killing many
> 3. IAF communication got jammed
> 4. any future strikes from india will have retaliations, which PAF proved it can do



1. Yes, India missed on 26th. Either deliberately or by mistake. Doesn't matter.
2. Yes, PAF got the better of the IAF on the next day. And yes, IAF shot down its own heli. Incompetence on the day by the IAF. Can't deny that.

However,

3. On 26th Feb, IAF came much further into Pak territory than PAF did into Indian territory the next day. IAF in fact cross the IB in Pak while the PAF didnt.

4. IAF was not challenged at all on 26th Feb while PAF was challenged on 27th Feb by the IAF which led to the dogfight and Abhi's jet being downed.

5. The dogfight on Feb 27, by most accounts involved only 8 IAF jets vs 24 PAF jets, a ratio of 1:3. Out of those 8 IAF jets, 4 were vintage Mig 21s. That day PAF caught IAF by surprise with its most latest F 16s and JF 17s in its inventory. This won't happen every time. In fact in a future conflict, the numerical superiority is likely to be in favour of India because of the difference in sizes of the two air forces.

I am not suggesting that PAF has nothing to celebrate for what happened on 27th, they do, but you too need to learn your lessons from 26th Feb and prepare for future conflicts when the numerical ratio will not be the same as on 27th and Mig 21s will most likely not be involved again.



Windjammer said:


> And certain Indian soldiers grabbed them out of thin air.



Am i supposed to laugh ? 

This isn't proof.


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## NA71

[QUOTE="
* need to learn your lessons from 26th Feb and prepare for future conflicts *
"[/QUOTE]
From your own post ...our answer is as above


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## Bossman

Gandhi G in da house said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> Am i supposed to laugh ?
> 
> This isn't proof.



The only proof you will accept is when an AMRAMM goes up your A$$ the way it is going up Ganesh’s A$$. No you should not laugh but cry on your own stupidity and wishful thinking.

As for the lessons learnt, PAF games every scenario possible and their professionalism is obvious. On the other hand, the IAF response coming from your chiefs was we will be better because we will import Rafales. In the past it was the Su33s and they barely got off the ground this time. No country should sell weapons to India as you forces give a bad name to them. You used an Israeli SAM to shoot down a Russian chopper. Your Israeli Spice bombs were way off target. You lost two Russian jets. IAF will do the same tp Rafales.

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## NA71

No you should think why you have been beaten by a country of size of UP of your country...why a smaller & weaker neighbor always stand and challenges your power....after analyzing ...you should cry hard

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## Gandhi G in da house

Bossman said:


> The only proof you will accept is when an AMRAMM goes up your A$$ the way it is going up Ganesh’s A$$. No you should not laugh but cry on your own stupidity and wishful thinking.
> 
> As for the lessons learnt, PAF games every scenario possible and their professionalism is obvious. On the other hand, the IAF response coming from your chiefs was we will be better because we will import Rafales. In the past it was the Su33s. and they barely got off the ground last time. No country should sell weapons to India as you forces give a bad name to them. You used an Israeli SAM to a Russian chopper. Your Israeli Spice bombs were way off target. You lost two Russian jet. IAF will do the same tp Rafales.



Your incoherent rabid anti hindu ranting only tells me that I touched a nerve there. Learning lessons is what makes you stronger. My advice is for your own good.



NA71 said:


> No you should think why you have been beaten by a country of size of UP of your country...why a smaller & weaker neighbor always stand and challenges your power....after analyzing ...you should cry hard



It would have been worth analysing if this smaller country were able to take Kashmir from India or were able to prevent itself from being split into two by India. But, downing of one vintage Mig 21 doesn't merit such analysis.


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## Ultima Thule

Gandhi G in da house said:


> One of those several AMRAAMs your F-16s fired but were dodged by the IAF


Hahaha how can your vedic mighty raptor of the East evade/dodge AMRAAM with home on jam capabilities and has capabilities of maneuverability/agility of 40-50 Gs whereas all fighter jets of the world can sustain 10-11 Gs at max @Gandhi G in da house 

[QUOTE="Gandhi G in da house, post: 11815352, member: 33897"]1. Yes, India missed on 26th. Either deliberately or by mistake. Doesn't matter.
2. Yes, PAF got the better of the IAF on the next day. And yes, IAF shot down its own heli. Incompetence on the day by the IAF. Can't deny that.

However,

3. On 26th Feb, IAF came much further into Pak territory than PAF did into Indian territory the next day. IAF in fact cross the IB in Pak while the PAF didnt.

4. IAF was not challenged at all on 26th Feb while PAF was challenged on 27th Feb by the IAF which led to the dogfight and Abhi's jet being downed.

5. The dogfight on Feb 27, by most accounts involved only 8 IAF jets vs 24 PAF jets, a ratio of 1:3. Out of those 8 IAF jets, 4 were vintage Mig 21s. That day PAF caught IAF by surprise with its most latest F 16s and JF 17s in its inventory. This won't happen every time. In fact in a future conflict, the numerical superiority is likely to be in favour of India because of the difference in sizes of the two air forces.

I am not suggesting that PAF has nothing to celebrate for what happened on 27th, they do, but you too need to learn your lessons from 26th Feb and prepare for future conflicts when the numerical ratio will not be the same as on 27th and Mig 21s will most likely not be involved again.



Am i supposed to laugh ?

This isn't proof.[/QUOTE]
In Indian version only we send only 12 jets to attack (6 jf17,6 mirages)in iok and unchallenged my foot you're (IAF) claiming you stayed 21 minutes in pakistani airspace how can it be possible,first decide yourself whether you intrude in Pakistani airspace or not,first your Vedic IAF said that we intrude deep in pakistani airspace but within few days your mighty Vedic IAF change its statement and told we didn't intrude in Pakistani airspace but instead we uses standoff precision glide BOMBS (spice-2000) so tell me which statement of IAF is true [USER=12221]@Gandhi G in da house[/USER]


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## SIPRA

seven0seven said:


> Hahaha how can your vedic mighty raptor of the East evade/dodge AMRAAM with home on jam capabilities and has capabilities of maneuverability/agility of 40-50 Gs whereas all fighter jets of the world can sustain 10-11 Gs at max @Ghareeb_Da_Baal
> 
> 
> In Indian version only we send only 12 jets to attack (6 jf17,6 mirages)in iok and unchallenged my foot you're (IAF) claiming you stayed 21 minutes in pakistani airspace how can it be possible,first decide yourself whether you intrude in Pakistani airspace or not,first your Vedic IAF said that we intrude deep in pakistani airspace but within few days your mighty Vedic IAF change its statement and told we didn't intrude in Pakistani airspace but instead we uses standoff precision glide BOMBS (spice-2000) so tell me which statement of IAF is true @Ghareeb_Da_Baal



They will keep on changing their stories, in order to overcome their utter humiliation, both on Feb 26 and 27.

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## PakSword

seven0seven said:


> And you don't have a shred of solid evidence for shooting down our f16 either,and don't talk about those crappy image by IAF after Pentagon confirmed that none of our f16 went missing i will make these kind of image better than IAF because i am a software developer/graphic designer in USA @Ghareeb_Da_Baal





seven0seven said:


> Hahaha how can your vedic mighty raptor of the East evade/dodge AMRAAM with home on jam capabilities and has capabilities of maneuverability/agility of 40-50 Gs whereas all fighter jets of the world can sustain 10-11 Gs at max @Ghareeb_Da_Baal
> 
> 
> In Indian version only we send only 12 jets to attack (6 jf17,6 mirages)in iok and unchallenged my foot you're (IAF) claiming you stayed 21 minutes in pakistani airspace how can it be possible,first decide yourself whether you intrude in Pakistani airspace or not,first your Vedic IAF said that we intrude deep in pakistani airspace but within few days your mighty Vedic IAF change its statement and told we didn't intrude in Pakistani airspace but instead we uses standoff precision glide BOMBS (spice-2000) so tell me which statement of IAF is true @Ghareeb_Da_Baal



Ghareeb_Da_Baal ne tumhara kiya bigara hai bhai?

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## NA71

sti


Gandhi G in da house said:


> Your incoherent rabid anti hindu ranting only tells me that I touched a nerve there. Learning lessons is what makes you stronger. My advice is for your own good.
> 
> 
> 
> It would have been worth analysing if this smaller country were able to take Kashmir from India or were able to prevent itself from being split into two by India. But, downing of one vintage Mig 21 doesn't merit such analysis.


still sheer arrogance ....you can only do it by exploiting proxies....

still shame for you if smaller is trying to snatch some thing from you...and you can not be able to tackle. just ask your self...why did you send Vintage M21? that was arrogance huhhh....the other side slapped on your face.


----------



## Ultima Thule

PakSword said:


> Ghareeb_Da_Baal ne tumhara kiya bigara hai bhai?


Keun bhai aap ko pasand nahi aya kia sir


----------



## Suff Shikan

Windjammer said:


> And certain Indian soldiers grabbed them out of thin air.

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## PakSword

seven0seven said:


> Keun bhai aap ko pasand nahi aya kia sir


Yaar aap quote kisi ko kar rahay ho tag kisi aur ko kar rahay ho... Loll


----------



## Ultima Thule

PakSword said:


> Yaar aap quote kisi ko kar rahay ho tag kisi aur ko kar rahay ho... Loll


Yaar mein aik dam sahi quote aur tag ker raha hoon @Gandhi G in da house ko


----------



## ziaulislam

Gandhi G in da house said:


> 1. Yes, India missed on 26th. Either deliberately or by mistake. Doesn't matter.
> 2. Yes, PAF got the better of the IAF on the next day. And yes, IAF shot down its own heli. Incompetence on the day by the IAF. Can't deny that.
> 
> However,
> 
> 3. On 26th Feb, IAF came much further into Pak territory than PAF did into Indian territory the next day. IAF in fact cross the IB in Pak while the PAF didnt.
> 
> 4. IAF was not challenged at all on 26th Feb while PAF was challenged on 27th Feb by the IAF which led to the dogfight and Abhi's jet being downed.
> 
> 5. The dogfight on Feb 27, by most accounts involved only 8 IAF jets vs 24 PAF jets, a ratio of 1:3. Out of those 8 IAF jets, 4 were vintage Mig 21s. That day PAF caught IAF by surprise with its most latest F 16s and JF 17s in its inventory. This won't happen every time. In fact in a future conflict, the numerical superiority is likely to be in favour of India because of the difference in sizes of the two air forces.
> 
> I am not suggesting that PAF has nothing to celebrate for what happened on 27th, they do, but you too need to learn your lessons from 26th Feb and prepare for future conflicts when the numerical ratio will not be the same as on 27th and Mig 21s will most likely not be involved again.
> 
> 
> 
> Am i supposed to laugh ?
> 
> This isn't proof.


1. *Yes, India missed on 26th. Either deliberately or by mistake. Doesn't matter.
hold it there..per IAF, IAF didnt miss, so they are lying..that is biggest scandle in this whole event*
3. you mean 5km moving in territory has any importance? balakot is 49km from LOC
5. well, if no.1 is true this holds no value as IAF is lying but isnt that incompetence..how come IAF had such a poor response

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## PakSword

seven0seven said:


> Yaar mein aik dam sahi quote aur tag ker raha hoon @Ghareeb_Da_Baal ko


Usually you reply to, and quote the same person in your posts.

Here you were replying to Gandhi gi in the house and quoting ghareeb da Baal.


----------



## ziaulislam

so you think a 5 times less powerful force successful downing a jet and responding to strikes stating it hit its target, has no reason to celebrate

what should have happened on 27th is clear, IAF should either* hold an inquiry why it missed or state it did miss on purpose
*
*on 28th IAF should have retaliated and punished *
*Pakistan*

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## Gandhi G in da house

seven0seven said:


> Hahaha how can your vedic mighty raptor of the East evade/dodge AMRAAM with home on jam capabilities and has capabilities of maneuverability/agility of 40-50 Gs whereas all fighter jets of the world can sustain 10-11 Gs at max @Ghareeb_Da_Baal
> 
> USER=12221]@Ghareeb_Da_Baal[/USER]



Whether the Su-30 had met a violent end, or was damaged and landed back, or the aircrew had been able to kinetically defeat the missile altogether, remains moot. Hard evidence by way of aircraft wreckage or details of aircrew casualties has not been available so far.

This is from an article your own Kaiser Tufail wrote. He seems to have given the answer.

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/2019/06/pulwama-from-bluster-to-whimper.html

Also, the simple fact that the PAF pilot who shot down the Mig 21 received a higher award than the pilot who supposedly downed the MKI shows that it's a fake claim. Why would a pilot who downed the MKI receive a lower award than the pilot who downed a Mig 21 when MKI is a much superior fighter to the Mig 21 ? Lol. This itself makes things clear.



ziaulislam said:


> so you think a 5 times less powerful force successful downing a jet and responding to strikes stating it hit its target, has no reason to celebrate



I already said PAf has reason to cel


ziaulislam said:


> so you think a 5 times less powerful force successful downing a jet and responding to strikes stating it hit its target, has no reason to celebrate
> 
> what should have happened on 27th is clear, IAF should either* hold an inquiry why it missed or state it did miss on purpose
> *
> *on 28th IAF should have retaliated and punished *
> *Pakistan*



I didn't say PAF has nothing to celebrate. I in fact said the opposite.


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## syedmunib

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Also, the simple fact that the PAF pilot who shot down the Mig 21 received a higher award than the pilot who supposedly downed the MKI shows that it's a fake claim. Why would a pilot who downed the MKI receive a lower award than the pilot who downed a Mig 21 when MKI is a much superior fighter to the Mig 21 ? Lol. This itself makes things clear.
> 
> 
> 
> I already said PAf has reason to cel
> 
> 
> I didn't say PAF has nothing to celebrate. I in fact said the opposite.




Norman Ali Khan was the overall mission commander in the fighter aircrafts and he shot down the Mig21. Hence the higher award. 

Hassan was under his command.

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## Blueskiez 2001

I belive that PAF shot down a SU-30.

Why PAF do not show irevocable evidence is so strange. They showed the evidance to Alan Warnes so why not release it?

The only way PAF can prove it is by showing hard evidence ie. suits / equipment from the pilot - and if they don´t then this "mystery" of SU-30 will not be solved period.

PAF could affcourse "don´t give a damn" since the Indian Airforce know whether they lost a SU-30 or not - and that is actually what really matters.

Then the mortals like us can keep on guessing...

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## Trailer23

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Also, the simple fact that the PAF pilot who shot down the Mig 21 received a higher award than the pilot who supposedly downed the MKI shows that it's a fake claim. Why would a pilot who downed the MKI receive a lower award than the pilot who downed a Mig 21 when MKI is a much superior fighter to the Mig 21 ? Lol. This itself makes things clear.


PAF certainly isn't IAF.

Our Awards aren't based on who got a better kill... That could be the common practice in India.

Here, the Awards are given as per Rank.

*P Off* to *Sqn Ldr* - _Tamgha-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz_

*Wg Cdr* to *Air Cdre* - _Sitara-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz_

*AVM* to *AM* - _Hilal-e-Imtiaz/Jurat_

General/*ACM*/Admiral - _Nishan-e-Imtiaz/Pakistan_

Hope that answers your '_LOL_'.

Note: When a Junior (Pilot Officer) shoots down a Rafale, he's gonna get the same award that he is entitled to as per Rank.

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## Gandhi G in da house

It's hilarious how Pakistanis on this forum keep harping on the Indian claim of downing an F-16 because there is no proof but they themselves show no proof of the downing of a Sukhoi .They will keep beating around the bush but wont accept that there is no proof of any downed fighter jet on Feb 27 except Abhi's Mig 21.


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## loanranger

Dear Keyboard warriors,
The future holds something so desisive that we will even forget that two Indian jets went down. Such will be the attrition dealt to the enemy.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Trailer23 said:


> PAF certainly isn't IAF.
> 
> Our Awards aren't based on who got a better kill... That could be the common practice in India.
> 
> Here, the Awards are given as per Rank.
> 
> *P Off* to *Sqn Ldr* - _Tamgha-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz_
> 
> *Wg Cdr* to *Air Cdre* - _Sitara-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz_
> 
> *AVM* to *AM* - _Hilal-e-Imtiaz/Jurat_
> 
> General/*ACM*/Admiral - _Nishan-e-Imtiaz/Pakistan_
> 
> Hope that answers your '_LOL_'.
> 
> Note: When a Junior (Pilot Officer) shoots down a Rafale, he's gonna get the same award that he is entitled to as per Rank.



Even if this is true it is not proof of downing of a Sukhoi 30. Anyway, do you have an official Pakistan government source for the above classification of awards as per ranks ?


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## Areesh

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Agreed. But the same thing holds true for PAF claim of shooting down a Sukhoi.



That's why you don't see me making that claim despite the fact that PAF has much more credibility than IAF anyways

PS: PAF didn't shot down its own heli neither lost its blackbox or failed to destroy a tin shed in Balakot so I don't know how you can compare the two claims

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## Trailer23

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Anyway, do you have an official Pakistan government source for the above classification of awards as per ranks ?


Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.


Gandhi G in da house said:


> It's hilarious how Pakistanis on this forum keep harping on the Indian claim of downing an F-16 because there is no proof but they themselves show no proof of the downing of a Sukhoi .They will keep beating around the bush but wont accept that there is no proof of any downed fighter jet on Feb 27 except Abhi's Mig 21.


No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.

But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.

Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.

There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.

Right.

So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.

Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.

So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.

Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.

But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.

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## Ultima Thule

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Even if this is true it is not proof of downing of a Sukhoi 30. Anyway, do you have an official Pakistan government source for the above classification of awards as per ranks ?


Our air chief claims that just like your previous air chief beating the same drums again and again



Trailer23 said:


> Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.
> 
> No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.
> 
> But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
> 1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
> 2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
> So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.
> 
> Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.
> 
> There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.
> 
> Right.
> 
> So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
> F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.
> 
> Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.
> 
> So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
> The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.
> 
> Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.
> 
> But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.


Sir we should stop feeding troll like @Gandhi G in da house beating same drums again and again

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## Gandhi G in da house

Trailer23 said:


> Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.
> 
> No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.
> 
> But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
> 1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
> 2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
> So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.
> 
> Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.
> 
> There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.
> 
> Right.
> 
> So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
> F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.
> 
> Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.
> 
> So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
> The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.
> 
> Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.
> 
> But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitara-e-Jurat

Wiki says Sitara e Jurat is conferrable on all ranks, not just to a few ranks. You don't have any source. Topic over. 



Trailer23 said:


> Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.
> 
> No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.
> 
> But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
> 1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
> 2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
> So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.
> 
> Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.
> 
> There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.
> 
> Right.
> 
> So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
> F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.
> 
> Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.
> 
> So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
> The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.
> 
> Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.
> 
> But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.



Firstly, i never claimed that IAF got the better of PAF on 27th Feb. I said clearly in one of my previous posts that PAF got the better of IAF on the said day. In fact, I used the word "incompetent" for IAFs performace on the day. My discussion here is strictly limited to Pakistan's claim of downing a Sukhoi.

Secondly, basically you will write long incoherent, beating around the bush posts that have nothing to do with anything but won't simply agree that just like India has no proof of downing of the F 16, Pakistan has no proof of downing of the Sukhoi. Anyway, i have already made my point, and dont wish to belabor it.

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## Trailer23

Your reply started with...


Gandhi G in da house said:


> Wiki says...


'nuff said.


Gandhi G in da house said:


> Anyway, i have already made my point, and dont wish to belabor it.


As i've made mine and I certainly do not wish to proceed with the likes of you...

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## Gandhi G in da house

Trailer23 said:


> Your reply started with...
> 
> 'nuff said.
> 
> As i've made mine and I certainly do not wish to proceed with the likes of you...



Wiki is still a better source when you have no source at all for what you are claiming. Lol. 

That is why i first asked you for a Pak govt. source. Such things in relation to classification of medals as per ranks must be found mentioned on government web sites. But you don't have any such source to back your claim.


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## Trailer23

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Wiki is still a better source when you have no source at all for what you are claiming.


Wiki Leaks is basically a site than anyone can alter at any point. One can alter History on that site for God sake. Who knows, maybe Modi did reinvent the wheel. That would go well with him owning one of the first Digital Camera in the 80's & using the internet back then too.

But in all honesty, i'm glad you're taking so much interest in our Heros and their Medals. One should have clarity of the difference between earning a Medal and/or receiving it to save face.

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## DrWatson775

loanranger said:


> Dear Keyboard warriors,
> The future holds something so desisive that we will even forget that two Indian jets went down. Such will be the attrition dealt to the enemy.



Yes the only thing holding PAF back in Feb were prevailing rules of engagement. 
Do you have some info you can share about possible future engagements..


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## Taha Samad

So I do not understand based on all publicly available evidence, what are Indians happy about. If anything they should be kicking their Air Force Chief.

Even if we are brutally strict this how the score would stand for both Air Forces:

26th Feb:

i) IAF strikes: Shallow Airspace Violation of 12 Mirages only 4-5 bombs released. All missed target [1][2]
ii) PAF Response: Exact details not known, but PAF claims out of 12 Mirages(escorted by 8 Su-30) only 4 could deploy bombs before the formation had to disengage due to approaching interceptors.[3][4]


27th Fed:

i) PAF Strikes: PAF's stated mission was to demonstrate capability by striking near Indian Military Installation. Result: Success. 6 bombs weapons released, 1 more than the Indian claim.[5]
ii) IAF Response: Su-30, Mirage-2000 and Mig-21 responded.
iii) Final Score:: PAF: 1 Mig-21 Confirmed Kill, 1 Su-30 Probable or at the least a mission kill. IAF: No Kill, no missile fired. [6][7][8]

--

[1]: Analysis of Satellite Imagery by 3rd Party Defense Publications. Identified 3 impact points on side of hill. Indicating 3 targets(more on this later).
[2]: Local & International Media reported from area within hours so they would have picked up chatter/gossip from locals even if there was a cover up going on as claimed by Indians, but nothing of the sorts was reported.
[3]: This claim was made by AM Haseeb Paracha in Sept. 2019 special program celebrating successes of PAF.
[4]: India Media reported that 12 Mirages(6 Spice-2000 + 6 Popeye) + at least 4 Su-30 that participated in mission. Another Indian Media outlet reported that Mirages failed to deploy Popeye Missile due to weather that's why IAF has no video of strikes. But given Popeye has Inertial Navigation System complimented by TV/IR guidance and has day/night/severe-weather capability its strange it could not be deployed due to weather. Also Indian Media reported that of 6 Spice-2000((3 for 1 single target + 1 each for remaining 3) only 5 were launched against "3 of 4" targets.

Analysis: NationalInterest article also identifies 3 impact points on side of the hill through satellite, which would indicate the 3 targets. Its unlikely that off the 5 weapons launched against 3 targets; 3 missed and 2 ended up on target since all would have been programmed with similar target coordinates.

Reuters reported four large craters on ground, which would either mean that 1 of the bombs hit in or around the existing crater from earlier bombs. This would also explain PAF assertion that only 4 bomb craters were found. Again its highly unlikely that off 5; 4 ended up on side of the hill and 1 ended up hitting the top when they would have been programmed with similar coordinates.


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397
https://indianexpress.com/article/e...i-popeye-jaish-training-camp-balakot-5602272/

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332
The Spice 2000 bombs were aimed at "four targets, of which three were hit. One [was hit] with three [bombs] and the remaining two with one bomb each," said a source familiar with the operations that day.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...s-in-jaish-madrasa-were-hit-official-5607623/
"Two Reuters reporters who visited the site of the bombings, where four large craters could be seen, said up to 15 pine trees had been brought down by the blasts. (Reuters)"

[5]: PAF stated objective from get go was "capability demonstration by striking empty spaces near Indian Military Installation". IAF agreed that PAF bomb struck empty spaces within/near Indian Military installations and hence this was act of Military aggression. So PAF claim was seconded by IAF itself. Moreover PAF showcased video from at least 1 target and given nature of H2/H4 any military expert would understand that if PAF wanted it could have struck on that target at least.
[6]: PAF showcased all missiles from Mig-21 either intact or still attached to the wreckage. Even before PAF; defense enthusiats were able to identify these parts around Mig-21 wreckage.
[7]: IAF showed AMRAAM piece; whose state indicated that war head exploded. Whether this happened due to Chaff or fighter itself is not known. But none the less Su-30 were out of the fight and PAF completed it mission with ease. So at the very least this missile achieved a mission kill of Su-30.
[8]: PAF used the words "it threatened PAF strike package..." in its memorial; which indicates Su-30 was targeted as it threatened PAF Strike Package, so even a mission kill is important in this case.

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## HawkEye27

Base Commander of Mushaf Air Base in Operation Swift Retort



        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## loanranger

DrWatson775 said:


> Yes the only thing holding PAF back in Feb were prevailing rules of engagement.
> Do you have some info you can share about possible future engagements..


Yes we had to follow strict ROE's. Otherwise we had nine locks but only got two clearances. Future engagements are bound to occur as the Kashmir issue gains momentum. No one is planning to attack just for the heck of it currently.


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## nomi007

why indian are showing again and again this picture
who is he?


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## Haris Ali2140

nomi007 said:


> why indian are showing again and again this picture
> who is he?
> View attachment 583686

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## Windjammer

nomi007 said:


> why indian are showing again and again this picture
> who is he?
> View attachment 583686


I posted a thread on him awhile back, he also performed on sea view a few years ago and when the clash took place between PAF and IAF in February, he was in US doing some course.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/shahbaz-of-sherdil.493512/

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## BATMAN

DrWatson775 said:


> Yes the only thing holding PAF back in Feb were prevailing rules of engagement.
> Do you have some info you can share about possible future engagements..



India will never open an armed conflict, unless they have Pakistani PM and cabinet in their pocket.
In current time, war is fought on multi dimensions and influencing decision makers of opponent to the point that their decision making process is delayed for few seconds is more than enough.
Current cabinet and PM can do all the speeches but what matters is how they withheld permission to shoot 9 Indian SU and didn't permited PAF to decimate their airbases in followup air dominance. WHY?
Every missile firing was subjected to the permission of new regime, links of current regime with IRGC are well known. Plenty of pictures can be found of PM and his cabinet meeting greeting IRGC, clearly shows indirect link with RAW.
If any one failed to see this open treason, than he's surely under the spell of wicked witch.

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## nomi007

Windjammer said:


> I posted a thread on him awhile back, he also performed on sea view a few years ago and when the clash took place between PAF and IAF in February, he was in US doing some course.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/shahbaz-of-sherdil.493512/


Million dollar answer bro thanks


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## loanranger

BATMAN said:


> India will never open an armed conflict, unless they have Pakistani PM and cabinet in their pocket.
> In current time, war is fought on multi dimensions and influencing decision makers of opponent to the point that their decision making process is delayed for few seconds is more than enough.
> Current cabinet and PM can do all the speeches but what matters is how they withheld permission to shoot 9 Indian SU and didn't permited PAF to decimate their airbases in followup air dominance. WHY?
> Every missile firing was subjected to the permission of new regime, links of current regime with IRGC are well known. Plenty of pictures can be found of PM and his cabinet meeting greeting IRGC, clearly shows indirect link with RAW.
> If any one failed to see this open treason, than he's surely under the spell of wicked witch.


You are openly calling the PM of Pakistan a traitor. Looks like we are all under this wicked witches spell except you please save us.


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## Talon



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## BATMAN

loanranger said:


> You are openly calling the PM of Pakistan a traitor. Looks like we are all under this wicked witches spell except you please save us.



He's Pakistani PM not because he passed CSS exam or was a scientist in atomic energy or have fought wars for Pakistan.
He's the one who openly accuse Pak army on international forums, without presenting evidence.
He has openly stated that he wanted to help modi win elections.
His voters in Punjab are same, who were allies of Zardari, in exchange he helped Zardari in Sindh.
He has even handed over economy to Zardari's team.
So save your threats for some one else.
Here every past PM was called traitor, may be you are forgetting the candid slogans of Imran Khan''modi ka jo yar he.....''

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## Bratva

Hodor said:


> View attachment 583826
> View attachment 583827



Personally do you believe we shot down SU-30 ? Because so far No evidence has emerged for SU-30 killshot


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## HawkEye27

Bratva said:


> Personally do you believe we shot down SU-30 ? Because so far No evidence has emerged for SU-30 killshot



Do you expect us to release the HUD video, Radar feed and EW Signatures that confirmed PAF’s claim. 

why don’t we ask counter questions?

1. Why Su-30 left the fight if alive?

2. Where is the debri of other 4 AMRAAMs that Su30 dodged

3. Where are the pictures of AMRAAM crash site? No bcs that crash site had pieces of Su30 with it

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## Bratva

HawkEye27 said:


> Do you expect us to* release the HUD video, Radar feed and EW Signatures* that confirmed PAF’s claim.
> 
> why don’t we ask counter questions?
> 
> 1. Why Su-30 left the fight if alive?
> 
> 2. Where is the debri of other 4 AMRAAMs that Su30 dodged
> 
> 3. Where are the pictures of AMRAAM crash site? No bcs that crash site had pieces of Su30 with it




These 3 confirms that Radar blip disappeared from the scopes which is not enough to confirm a kill. Kaiser Tufail answered all your questions. And Btw A similar claim was made during Afghan war where PAF confirmed a Soviet SU-22 kill through HUD and other electronic data which later turned out to be incorrect as the Aircraft was managed to crash land back in Afghanistan.

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## Riz

Bratva said:


> Personally do you believe we shot down SU-30 ? Because so far No evidence has emerged for SU-30 killshot


Check your last SU-30 accident.. Nice way to write off SU-30 from inventory..


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## Safriz

Bratva said:


> Personally do you believe we shot down SU-30 ? Because so far No evidence has emerged for SU-30 killshot


Compared to PAF own pilots and radar crew, you are a nobody.
If they say the kill was made then their statement has a lot more weight than insignificant keyboard warrior like you.
Are t you the same guy who had been claiming that the entire ERIEYE fleet was destroyed by terrorists? Only to be proven wrong after do many years.


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## loanranger

Bratva said:


> Personally do you believe we shot down SU-30 ? Because so far No evidence has emerged for SU-30 killshot


I know this point bothers you. That we claimed Su30 but no evidence. But look we have explicitly claimed it in Mujhaideen e Aflak aswell as other instances. We could have also claimed that we ahot their helicopter down if we wanted to lie. No one including India would have contradicted us as it would help them save face. So I choose to believe PAF has far greater credibility and nothing to hide. There is another fringe possibility that the Su30 managed to return to base as it was not compromise by the missile or it deployed a decoy. Did you know PAF has decoys in its inventory. Such as this 
https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/ale50
Maybe Indians fired a missile from an Su30 and said it was Abhinandan just to create confusion and think they scored a kill. When acctually our pilot had employed the countermeasure above to evade.
Highly unlikely any missile was fired from Indian side though. I am just being creative.


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## Bratva

شاھین میزایل said:


> Compared to PAF own pilots and radar crew, you are a nobody.
> If they say the kill was made then their statement has a lot more weight than insignificant keyboard warrior like you.
> *Are t you the same guy who had been claiming that the entire ERIEYE fleet was destroyed by terrorists?* Only to be proven wrong after do many years.



You have a habit of Making lot of rubbish claims. Kindly quote where I said this.? From No Erieye destroyed to 1 destroyed, 2 badly damaged. PAF was force to admit down the years about the cover-up. 

PAF Pilots and radar crew are not infallible. Their claims are not infallible. If you believe in their infallibility then sure we can Believe PAF pilots and radar crew.



loanranger said:


> I know this point bothers you. That we claimed Su30 but no evidence. But look we have explicitly claimed it in Mujhaideen e Aflak aswell as other instances. We could have also claimed that we ahot their helicopter down if we wanted to lie. No one including India would have contradicted us as it would help them save face. So I choose to believe PAF has far greater credibility and nothing to hide. There is another fringe possibility that the Su30 managed to return to base as it was not compromise by the missile or it deployed a decoy. Did you know PAF has decoys in its inventory. Such as this
> https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/ale50
> Maybe Indians fired a missile from an Su30 and said it was Abhinandan just to create confusion and think they scored a kill. When acctually our pilot had employed the countermeasure above to evade.
> Highly unlikely any missile was fired from Indian side though. I am just being creative.




Lets not get carried away. Pakistan was not cleared for AN/ALE-50 Decoy system and PAF never purchased it. Notifications from American side are enough indication what Pakistan purchased with F-16. 

Explicit or Implicit claims will remain a claim until claim as you yourself said that SU-30 might have performed evasive maneuvers and at such a distance which is 70 KM + distance, A chaff cloud and SU-30 disappearing into mountain range to hide itself will obviously make the radar blip disappear or it crash landed back to airbase.

Hence relying solely on HUD and electronic Data isn't a fool proof way to claim something.

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## IceCold

Bratva said:


> Personally do you believe we shot down SU-30 ? Because so far No evidence has emerged for SU-30 killshot


Well if the Indians in their haste hadn't shown an AMRAAM debris, we would have remained skeptical as well but what they did proudly displaying as some evidence of an F-16 shot down, embarrassed them in the end. Another embarrassing moment for them was when Modi claimed "agar rafale hota to results kuch or hota" . A single Mig 21 loss would not have rattled the entire IAF as Migs were shot down during Kargil war as well. It was the mighty Su-30 and the myth that was created around it that resulted in such statements out of sheer embarrassment. As I said once in another thread the way they displayed AMRAAM on live press conference it was like showing a used condom claiming "Hey we were not Fucked"

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## Safriz

Bratva said:


> You have a habit of Making lot of rubbish claims. Kindly quote where I said this.? From No Erieye destroyed to 1 destroyed, 2 badly damaged. PAF was force to admit down the years about the cover-up.
> 
> PAF Pilots and radar crew are not infallible. Their claims are not infallible. If you believe in their infallibility then sure we can Believe PAF pilots and radar crew.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets not get carried away. Pakistan was not cleared for AN/ALE-50 Decoy system and PAF never purchased it. Notifications from American side are enough indication what Pakistan purchased with F-16.
> 
> Explicit or Implicit claims will remain a claim until claim as you yourself said that SU-30 might have performed evasive maneuvers and at such a distance which is 70 KM + distance, A chaff cloud and SU-30 disappearing into mountain range to hide itself will obviously make the radar blip disappear or it crash landed back to airbase.
> 
> Hence relying solely on HUD and electronic Data isn't a fool proof way to claim something.


Yeah, thats why out of shame you had to change your screen name from "Nuclear-Pak" to this "Btarva" or whatever?
You have a habit of behaving like the know all , above and beyond the actual people handling the matter.
Now you claiming that PAF didnt shoot SU-30MKI despite PAF claiming that they did shoot the jet..Who exactly are you? Some random person in Qatar?


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## Mrc

There is a video of 2 shoots descending on LOC. .. Its a clear video with audio description

They were not pakistani

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## loanranger

Bratva said:


> Pakistan was not cleared for AN/ALE-50 Decoy system and PAF never purchased it. Notifications from American side are enough indication what Pakistan purchased with F-16.


https://www.airforce-technology.com...tallation-on-pakistani-f-16-fighters-4391269/
When I say something I mean it.





Enjoy

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## masterchief_mirza

loanranger said:


> https://www.airforce-technology.com...tallation-on-pakistani-f-16-fighters-4391269/
> When I say something I mean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy



Erm. Where has this video been all these months exactly? 

Indian witnesses clearly describing a wrecked plane on the Indian side of the border??

And this footage has been hiding until now??

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## HawkEye27

I had 3 counter questions also!! If you try to answer them then you will get the answers. Also I have heard that ISI also confirmed the kill, no doubt we got the Sqn no on the monument. 

also apart from radar blips, PAF has distress call recorded. 

what else do u want??



Bratva said:


> These 3 confirms that Radar blip disappeared from the scopes which is not enough to confirm a kill. Kaiser Tufail answered all your questions. And Btw A similar claim was made during Afghan war where PAF confirmed a Soviet SU-22 kill through HUD and other electronic data which later turned out to be incorrect as the Aircraft was managed to crash land back in Afghanistan.


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## Pak-Canuck

loanranger said:


> https://www.airforce-technology.com...tallation-on-pakistani-f-16-fighters-4391269/
> When I say something I mean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy



Uploaded just 6 hrs ago, wow indeed where was this vid hiding all this time?

Indian news report from Indian eyewitnesses of Indian FIGHTER JET going over border and coming back shot down crashing in indian side. Now clip doesnt say it was Su30, but IT COMPLETELY AND DEFINITELY destroys Indian claim of losing only 1 fighter plane that day.

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## Mrc

Abp news was hiding it


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## Safriz

Mrc said:


> Abp news was hiding it


And we Pakistanis like @Bratva are too stupid to look for evidence and gullible enough to go with the Indian narrative.

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## MAB

loanranger said:


> https://www.airforce-technology.com...tallation-on-pakistani-f-16-fighters-4391269/
> When I say something I mean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy



Now this is something huge as it clearly indicates the Indian government had the media houses hide this information. I also remember there is a clip of NDTV stating that a Su-30 went down but then deleted it. Its probably still up on another channel.

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## loanranger

masterchief_mirza said:


> Erm. Where has this video been all these months exactly?
> 
> Indian witnesses clearly describing a wrecked plane on the Indian side of the border??
> 
> And this footage has been hiding until now??


So what happened was right when the news first broke out that PAF had banged IAF on the 27th and it was bad. All these Indian channels started going to kashmir and interviewing people. They found out that a jet had crashed and then you had that anchors video saying a su30 had been shot down by PAF. Thats when panic gripped the GOI. IAF told them what really happened and they ordered a complete media blackout and narrative turn around.

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## Sidacca

loanranger said:


> https://www.airforce-technology.com...tallation-on-pakistani-f-16-fighters-4391269/
> When I say something I mean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy


Now this is something to consider, those villagers clearly explaining it the su30 loss..... Blast before crash clear indication of BVR hit and the news was hidden so far

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## SIPRA

loanranger said:


> So what happened was right when the news first broke out that PAF had banged IAF on the 27th and it was bad. All these Indian channels started going to kashmir and interviewing people. They found out that a jet had crashed and then you had that anchors video saying a su30 had been shot down by PAF. Thats when panic gripped the GOI. IAF told them what really happened and they ordered a complete media blackout and narrative turn around.



I think that the video, you have found and posted in this thread, warrants opening a new thread. This video is extraordinary.

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## Sidacca

RIWWIR said:


> I think that the video, you have found and posted in this thread, warrants opening a new thread. This video is extraordinary.


This is right we should viral it.... Let's the party begins again..... I am excited and curious to know the reaction of my neighbours.... But m sure they will come with BS arguments to counter it

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## SIPRA

Sidacca said:


> This is right we should viral it.... Let's the party begins again..... I am excited and curious to know the reaction of my neighbours.... But m sure they will come with BS arguments to counter it



Of course, "Lallu" Kumars would surely come with some "Panjju" arguments.



RIWWIR said:


> I think that the video, you have found and posted in this thread, warrants opening a new thread. This video is extraordinary.



Hazrat @Mangus Ortus Novem: Check this extraordinary video, which has just been posted by @loanranger. I think, a new thread is warranted.

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## Mighty Lion

loanranger said:


> https://www.airforce-technology.com...tallation-on-pakistani-f-16-fighters-4391269/
> When I say something I mean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy


Video from March 1.
He is clearly talking about Abhinandan's MiG-21 since his Mig crash site in AJK was just 4 km from our sher makadi tehsil in J&K

Distance between Sher Makadi & MiG-21 crash site (Latitude: 33° 13' 54.6" North
Longitude: 73° 57' 23.4" East) is about 5 km.
And as Sher Makadi is just 2 km from LoC any crash smoke/fire there would be visible to Pakistanis just like MiG-21 crash smoke was visible to Indians. Which means Pakistanis would have then posted pics of smoke or fire on Indian side of LoC.

Also since the MiG-21 crash site was so close to Sher Makadi he though it might have crashed there.

We know that Abhinandan MiG-21 came from the direction of Rajauri so his description matches exactly with Abhinandan MiG-21.
He says he saw a plane crashing near Sher Makadi which is just 5 km from actual crash site of Abhinandan so he might have though that Abhinandan's falling plane came down in sher makadi.

Also he clearly mentions he saw ONE pilot ejecting whcih matches with Abhinandan MiG 21 description as Sukhois have two pilots


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## Mrc

Farthest distance a human can see with PERFECT VISION is 2.5 km


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## Sidacca

silent_poison said:


> We know that Abhinandan MiG-21 came from the direction of Rajauri so his description matches exactly with Abhinandan MiG-21.
> He says he saw a plane crashing near Sher Makadi which is just 5 km from actual crash site of Abhinandan so he might have though that Abhinandan's falling plane came down in sher makadi.


As I said earlier they will come up with their own assumptions and theories


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## loanranger

silent_poison said:


> Video from March 1.
> He is clearly talking about Abhinandan's MiG-21 since his Mig crash site in AJK was just 4 km from our sher makadi tehsil in J&K
> 
> Distance between Sher Makadi & MiG-21 crash site (Latitude: 33° 13' 54.6" North
> Longitude: 73° 57' 23.4" East) is about 5 km.
> And as Sher Makadi is just 2 km from LoC any crash smoke/fire there would be visible to Pakistanis just like MiG-21 crash smoke was visible to Indians.
> 
> Also since the MiG-21 crash site was so close to Sher Makadi he though it might have crashed there.
> 
> We know that Abhinandan MiG-21 came from the direction of Rajauri so his description matches exactly with Abhinandan MiG-21.
> He says he saw a plane crashing near Sher Makadi which is just 5 km from actual crash site of Abhinandan so he might have though that Abhinandan's falling plane came down in sher makadi.
> 
> Also he clearly mentions he saw ONE pilot ejecting whcih matches with Abhinandan MiG 21 description as Sukhois have two pilots


Silence Indian. That cat is out of the bag now.

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## The Eagle

silent_poison said:


> Video from March 1.
> He is clearly talking about Abhinandan's MiG-21 since his Mig crash site in AJK was just 4 km from our sher makadi tehsil in J&K
> 
> Distance between Sher Makadi & MiG-21 crash site (Latitude: 33° 13' 54.6" North
> Longitude: 73° 57' 23.4" East) is about 5 km.
> And as Sher Makadi is just 2 km from LoC any crash smoke/fire there would be visible to Pakistanis just like MiG-21 crash smoke was visible to Indians.
> 
> Also since the MiG-21 crash site was so close to Sher Makadi he though it might have crashed there.
> 
> We know that Abhinandan MiG-21 came from the direction of Rajauri so his description matches exactly with Abhinandan MiG-21.
> He says he saw a plane crashing near Sher Makadi which is just 5 km from actual crash site of Abhinandan so he might have though that Abhinandan's falling plane came down in sher makadi.
> 
> Also he clearly mentions he saw ONE pilot ejecting whcih matches with Abhinandan MiG 21 description as Sukhois have two pilots



This video along with many others to follow; will bring a lot of homework for you guys so instead of getting exhaust at one, brace yourself and don't get tired by inventing more sotries. This is the second thread & your 5th attempt to say otherwise but what those witnesses said & ABP news person quotes; are telling something different. People can understand where that plane went & where was Abhinandan on that day. Bhawani-B panchayat, is not in Azad Kashmir.

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## Mighty Lion

Mrc said:


> Farthest distance a human can see with PERFECT VISION is 2.5 km


That is 1 candle.
But ejection seat and mig 21 on fire will be 1000-5000 candles



loanranger said:


> Silence Indian. That cat is out of the bag now.


Yes cat is out bag as I now debunked your post in 1 minute


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## The Eagle

silent_poison said:


> That is 1 candle.
> But ejection seat and mig 21 on fire will be 1000-5000 candles
> 
> 
> Yes cat is out bag as I now debunked your post in 1 minute



Abhinanadan wasn't returning to India but this aircraft, as per witness.

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## Mrc

silent_poison said:


> That is 1 candle.
> But ejection seat and mig 21 on fire will be 1000-5000 candles
> 
> 
> Yes cat is out bag as I now debunked your post in 1 minute




Yes you do have a point.... 

I doubt that just a bright coloured parachute wud b visible at that distance but yes ejection seat firing shud b

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## Mighty Lion

The Eagle said:


> Abhinanadan wasn't returning to India but this aircraft, as per witness.


Abhinandan tried hard to return back to India once he relaized his Aircraft was locked on.
His Wingman already went back by engaging afterburners and jettisoning dtop tanks


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## loanranger

silent_poison said:


> That is 1 candle.


Light Intensity is measured by candela.

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## The Eagle

silent_poison said:


> Abhinandan tried hard to return back to India once he relaized his Aircraft was locked on.
> His Wingman already went back by engaging afterburners and jettisoning dtop tanks



Arm Chair Generals really have to read the official lines before creating yet another story because; there is almost every Indian account with debunking story later to save face. Abhinandan wasn't returning rather, the so-called Indian hero was looking for a target and being hit.... this (2nd A/C) was flying from Rajauri to Pakistan and then returned immediately that witnesses saw as such while it went down inside IoK. Well, deny a witness like this & twist is the Indian kind we have been dealing since years.

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## Mighty Lion

The Eagle said:


> Arm Chair Generals really have to read the official lines before creating yet another story because; there is almost every Indian account with debunking story later to save face. Abhinandan wasn't returning rather, the so-called Indian hero was looking for a target and being hit.... this (2nd A/C) was flying from Rajauri to Pakistan and then returned immediately that witnesses saw as such while it went down inside IoK. Well, deny a witness like this & twist is the Indian kind we have been dealing since years.


I watched it again, The eyewitness actually said the Aircraft was trying to return to Pakistan.

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## DrWatson775

silent_poison said:


> Abhinandan tried hard to return back to India once he relaized his Aircraft was locked on.
> His Wingman already went back by engaging afterburners and jettisoning dtop tanks



Abhinandan was looking for targets on his radar when his aircraft was hit. He wouldn't be pointing his engine exhaust at PAF fighters to target them now would he ?

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## The Eagle

silent_poison said:


> I watched it again, The eyewitness actually said the Aircraft was trying to return to Pakistan.



A sad state of affairs then. I can't shove down the fact. You have already decided to not to listen but hear it for the sake of your own side of story. Plane came from Rajauri to Pakistan and returned immediately but was shot and crashed later but there is no point telling you as you have already decided to not to hear it or understand.

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## Windjammer

silent_poison said:


> I watched it again, The eyewitness actually said the Aircraft was trying to return to Pakistan.


No you idiot, he said, ''Biyman ney Pakistan mein janey ki koshish ki lekin Turant hi wapis aakar woh ......





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Vapnope

Abhi's plane was inside Pakistan, it didn't even try to return back. The other plane caught fire while it was returning back to India, the pilot and a/c both remained in IOK. 
Anyone who has met Hassan knows he shot the a/c while it was running back, Abhi's was blind and moving forward without even knowing what has happened.

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## Mighty Lion

The Eagle said:


> A sad state of affairs then. I can't shove down the fact. You have already decided to not to listen but hear it for the sake of your own side of story. Plane came from Rajauri to Pakistan and returned immediately but was shot and crashed later but there is no point telling you as you have already decided to not to hear it or understand.





Windjammer said:


> No you idiot, he said, ''Biyman ney Pakistan mein janey ki koshish ki lekin Turant hi wapis aakar woh ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/





Vapnope said:


> Abhi's plane was inside Pakistan, it didn't even try to return back. The other plane caught fire while it was returning back to India, the pilot and a/c both remained in IOK.
> Anyone who has met Hassan knows he shot the a/c while it was running back, Abhi's was blind and moving forward without even knowing what has happened.


My mistake.
Sorry.

Anyways it confirms that it was Abhinandan MiG-21 as Even prominent western Think tank DFRLab agrees that the MiG-21 was hit when it was moving back towards India:


> *The fact that the aircraft was struck at the rear coupled with the dispersion of the wreckage in a northeasterly direction suggests that the MiG was struck from behind at a point where it was moving toward the Indian border.*


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## Shiji

If I remember correctly the Mig had proximity damage to the tail section i.e the rear quadrant meaning it was engaged from the back, It might have been returning back.
Might be able to analyse the direction of the wreckage to be sure.

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## The Eagle

silent_poison said:


> My mistake.
> Sorry.
> 
> Anyways it confirms that it was Abhinandan MiG-21 as Even prominent western Think tank DFRLab agrees that the MiG-21 was hit when it was moving back towards India:



So Abhinandan Jet has no spin after getting shot? However, I am not even interested into what Indians can think at the moment especially since that video made it to public. Thankfully, they aren't Pakistanis nor the ABP news.


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## Talon

RIWWIR said:


> I think that the video, you have found and posted in this thread, warrants opening a new thread. This video is extraordinary.


Not everyone is windjammer..no pun intended

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## loanranger

Hodor said:


> Not everyone is windjammer..no pun intended


Not everyone is your highness either.


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## Talon

loanranger said:


> Not everyone is your highness either.


Hodor was last seen crying in a corner..

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## masterchief_mirza

silent_poison said:


> Video from March 1.
> He is clearly talking about Abhinandan's MiG-21 since his Mig crash site in AJK was just 4 km from our sher makadi tehsil in J&K
> 
> Distance between Sher Makadi & MiG-21 crash site (Latitude: 33° 13' 54.6" North
> Longitude: 73° 57' 23.4" East) is about 5 km.
> And as Sher Makadi is just 2 km from LoC any crash smoke/fire there would be visible to Pakistanis just like MiG-21 crash smoke was visible to Indians. Which means Pakistanis would have then posted pics of smoke or fire on Indian side of LoC.
> 
> Also since the MiG-21 crash site was so close to Sher Makadi he though it might have crashed there.
> 
> We know that Abhinandan MiG-21 came from the direction of Rajauri so his description matches exactly with Abhinandan MiG-21.
> He says he saw a plane crashing near Sher Makadi which is just 5 km from actual crash site of Abhinandan so he might have though that Abhinandan's falling plane came down in sher makadi.
> 
> Also he clearly mentions he saw ONE pilot ejecting whcih matches with Abhinandan MiG 21 description as Sukhois have two pilots


A jet is described going over to Pakistan, THEN RETURNING TO INDIAN TERRITORY AND BEING IN FLAMES/DAMAGED. IF THE MIG WAS BEING DESCRIBED, IT WOULD'VE CRASHED IN INDIA.

THEY'RE DESCRIBING A DIFFERENT PLANE.

GAME OVER SNAKE.

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## SIPRA

masterchief_mirza said:


> A jet is described going over to Pakistan, THEN RETURNING TO INDIAN TERRITORY AND BEING IN FLAMES/DAMAGED. IF THE MIG WAS BEING DESCRIBED, IT WOULD'VE CRASHED IN INDIA.
> 
> THEY'RE DESCRIBING A DIFFERENT PLANE.
> 
> GAME OVER SNAKE.



@loanranger has opened another thread on this video.

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## DrWatson775

silent_poison said:


> My mistake.
> Sorry.
> 
> Anyways it confirms that it was Abhinandan MiG-21 as Even prominent western Think tank DFRLab agrees that the MiG-21 was hit when it was moving back towards India:



Your U turns may only convince you in the end unfortunately. Abhinandan was looking for targets on his radar when his aircraft was hit. Hopefully we all agree that the targets from Abhinandans perspective were towards Pakistans side, hence his Bisons nose was pointing ☝ towards Pakistan . Unless his Bison somehow got a tail radar…….


----------



## Mighty Lion

DrWatson775 said:


> Your U turns may only convince you in the end unfortunately. Abhinandan was looking for targets on his radar when his aircraft was hit. Hopefully we all agree that the targets from Abhinandans perspective were towards Pakistans side, hence his Bisons nose was pointing ☝ towards Pakistan . Unless his Bison somehow got a tail radar…….


Epic fail.
Australian top think tank DFR Labs confirmed in their report that MiG 21 was hit when it was moving back towards India.


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## Riz

Vapnope said:


> Abhi's plane was inside Pakistan, it didn't even try to return back. The other plane caught fire while it was returning back to India, the pilot and a/c both remained in IOK.
> Anyone who has met Hassan knows he shot the a/c while it was running back, Abhi's was blind and moving forward without even knowing what has happened.


Aor hum na daikha k hamary aik weyman k pichwary main AMRAAMs ghusa hoa tha aor kuch dair hamara double engine SU-30 aka mini AWACs wiman hamary samny Shaheed ho gia..

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## PakSword

silent_poison said:


> Epic fail.
> Australian top think tank DFR Labs confirmed in their report that MiG 21 was hit when it was moving back towards India.



Same DFRLabs which says this about Indian strikes on supposed JEM led madarassa?

_The SPICE-2000 is a precision-guided bomb that should not miss its target by the approximately 100 meters that the impact craters were from the nearest structures. The autonomous nature of the SPICE-2000 adds mystery to why the bombs seemed to miss. Satellite imagery did not suggest that any damage was inflicted to nearby buildings. Vegetation and low imagery resolution could hypothetically obscure structural damage, but this remains highly improbably. Something appears to have gone wrong in the targeting process — exactly what, however, remains unclear in the open-source evidence._

[Source]

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## The Eagle

silent_poison said:


> Epic fail.
> Australian top think tank DFR Labs confirmed in their report that MiG 21 was hit when it was moving back towards India.



Still very far from Makri but then it is all about the convenience. What those India eyewitness saw, should have been making rounds on Indian media instead of fake F-16 claim but then again, that wouldn't serve the purpose of reporting for Modi. 

By the way thanks to keep this thread alive as many posts from the past aging very well.

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## PakSword

1:15 onwards...

"viman ne Pakistan main janay ki koshish ki lekin turant hi woh wapis aakar jab sher makari ki taraf gaya tou wahan woh viman gira hai jis main aag lagi hai.. aisa dawa chasham deed gawah kar rahay hain".

@silent_poison

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## khanasifm

??






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2437838482979085

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## loanranger

The ammunition depo spared by PAF.

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## Windjammer

loanranger said:


> View attachment 584718
> The ammunition depo spared by PAF.


Waiting for post strike images as reportedly the ammo depot structure collapsed from violent explosions and shock waves.

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## loanranger

Windjammer said:


> Waiting for post strike images as reportedly the ammo depot structure collapsed from violent explosions and shock waves.


I can't wait


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## SIPRA

Windjammer said:


> Waiting for post strike images as reportedly the ammo depot structure collapsed from violent explosions and shock waves.



I think the news was that ammunition stacked inside depot fell. The structure itself didn't collapse.


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## Windjammer

RIWWIR said:


> I think the news was that ammunition stacked inside depot fell. The structure itself didn't collapse.


Tons of ammo doesn't shift without structure falling.

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## CheckmatePrahar223

Jackdaws said:


> Except for the fools bit, we have a pretty similar opinion of your tactics.
> 
> 
> I doubt it.


agree



Cash GK said:


> we down their three jets in kagil war. with out even flying a jet..there will be no surprise..


Let me tell how how it is :
1. MIG 27 : The engine flamed out due to firing at a very high altitude . Flt Lt Nachiketa had no option but to bail out and was captured by Pakistani army.
2. MIG 21 : Sq Ldr Ajay Ahuja was searching for the downed pilot and decreased his speed and reduced his height which put his aircraft in danger and his aircraft was then shot by stinger missiles. He was cowardly shot after bailing out.
3. MI 17 : A 4 formation of MI 17 armed helicopters did an attack on the Tiger hill and dropped bombs and rockets. In return , they were fired upon by stinger missiles, one of the MI 17 didnot have chaff flares and thus couldnot evade the missile and was shot down.

The next level of bombing was done accurately by IAF MIRAGE 2000 which destroyed 70 Pakistani tents on the attack on 'Muntho Dhalo' killing at least 200-300 NLI soldiers. More attacks followed with accurate bombings.

There was no challenge from PAF throughout the Kargil war as PAF lacked a BVR (beyond visual range) missile at that point of time. One more than one occasion , IAF MIG 29s got lock on the PAF F16s and F16s had to disengage. This may also be attributed to the fact that both air forces may not have wanted further escalation of the war.


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## mshan44

i think this is new video did not seen it before here
p

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## ziaulislam

CheckmatePrahar223 said:


> agree
> 
> 
> Let me tell how how it is :
> 1. MIG 27 : The engine flamed out due to firing at a very high altitude . Flt Lt Nachiketa had no option but to bail out and was captured by Pakistani army.
> 2. MIG 21 : Sq Ldr Ajay Ahuja was searching for the downed pilot and decreased his speed and reduced his height which put his aircraft in danger and his aircraft was then shot by stinger missiles. He was cowardly shot after bailing out.
> 3. MI 17 : A 4 formation of MI 17 armed helicopters did an attack on the Tiger hill and dropped bombs and rockets. In return , they were fired upon by stinger missiles, one of the MI 17 didnot have chaff flares and thus couldnot evade the missile and was shot down.
> 
> The next level of bombing was done accurately by IAF MIRAGE 2000 which destroyed 70 Pakistani tents on the attack on 'Muntho Dhalo' killing at least 200-300 NLI soldiers. More attacks followed with accurate bombings.
> 
> There was no challenge from PAF throughout the Kargil war as PAF lacked a BVR (beyond visual range) missile at that point of time. One more than one occasion , IAF MIG 29s got lock on the PAF F16s and F16s had to disengage. This may also be attributed to the fact that both air forces may not have wanted further escalation of the war.


seems fair win even if this narrative is accepted
IAF didnt had balls to hit pakistan or respond to it


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## loanranger

CheckmatePrahar223 said:


> There was no challenge from PAF throughout the Kargil war as PAF lacked a BVR (beyond visual range) missile at that point of time.


Do you have any idea what would have happened if PAF had bvrs? 
We would have stayed well within our borders and created several Abhinandans.
When you make movies on kargil next time atleast remember your pilots knew there would be no PAF to kill them.
It must be a heavenly feeling knowing PAF is not comming.

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## Jackdaws

loanranger said:


> Do you have any idea what would have happened if PAF had bvrs?
> We would have stayed well within our borders and created several Abhinandans.
> When you make movies on kargil next time atleast remember your pilots knew there would be no PAF to kill them.
> It must be a heavenly feeling knowing PAF is not comming.


No one stopped them from coming. It's like saying - the Allied Forces had a heavenly feeling knowing the Luftwaffe wasn't going to defend German captured areas in Europe. 

The reason your PAF could not be engaged in that your own Army and Govt did not bother telling the PAF about Kargil and when Kargil came to light Pakistan said they were "Mujahideen". If PAF came into play, it would be acknowledging that they are Pak Army, not Mujahideen.

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## Bossman

CheckmatePrahar223 said:


> agree
> 
> 
> Let me tell how how it is :
> 1. MIG 27 : The engine flamed out due to firing at a very high altitude . Flt Lt Nachiketa had no option but to bail out and was captured by Pakistani army.
> 2. MIG 21 : Sq Ldr Ajay Ahuja was searching for the downed pilot and decreased his speed and reduced his height which put his aircraft in danger and his aircraft was then shot by stinger missiles. He was cowardly shot after bailing out.
> 3. MI 17 : A 4 formation of MI 17 armed helicopters did an attack on the Tiger hill and dropped bombs and rockets. In return , they were fired upon by stinger missiles, one of the MI 17 didnot have chaff flares and thus couldnot evade the missile and was shot down.
> 
> The next level of bombing was done accurately by IAF MIRAGE 2000 which destroyed 70 Pakistani tents on the attack on 'Muntho Dhalo' killing at least 200-300 NLI soldiers. More attacks followed with accurate bombings.
> 
> There was no challenge from PAF throughout the Kargil war as PAF lacked a BVR (beyond visual range) missile at that point of time. One more than one occasion , IAF MIG 29s got lock on the PAF F16s and F16s had to disengage. This may also be attributed to the fact that both air forces may not have wanted further escalation of the war.


Is there a permanent department in IAF whose role is nothing but to come up with excuses? There is a separate thread on the history of IAF jets shot down by or surrendered to PAF since the 50s. In every case, IAF had an excuse similar to what you are stating here. It was an oxygen problem with the Canberra or bad navigation with Ouragan or running out of fuel with the Gnat, or the flameout or smoke ingestion in Kargil. BTW the excuse about the flameout is so lame, that a kid can pick it up. The service ceiling of MiG 27 is 47,000 feet. The highest point in Kargil is around 16,000 feet, let say the plane was flying over 10,000 feet above the higest point to avoid the manpads it would still be below its service ceiling. Even the excuses IAF come up with are not credible.

You forgot to mention the Canberra in Kargil, which had to crash land after being hit by a SAM.

Couple of other things, Kargil was not a war but a border incident. There was no reason for PAF to be involved. Secondly, India was bombing its own territory. One time they crossed the border they lost two planes.

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## ARMalik

PAF's performance on Feb 27 was no doubt outstanding. However, the dangers have increased for Pakistan specially in the Naval arena due to which PAF needs long range, deep strike Fighter Jets. Mirages are there but not enough. PAF needs J-16 or J-15 type jets urgently from China.

This will enable PAF strike anywhere in the region and virtually strike any Indian Naval vessel on Western Indian shores, and Middle East. Such long range jets will also take care of another emerging enemy called Isra..el.

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## The Accountant

ARMalik said:


> PAF's performance on Feb 27 was no doubt outstanding. However, the dangers have increased for Pakistan specially in the Naval arena due to which PAF needs long range, deep strike Fighter Jets. Mirages are there but not enough. PAF needs J-16 or J-15 type jets urgently from China.
> 
> This will enable PAF strike anywhere in the region and virtually strike any Indian Naval vessel on Western Indian shores, and Middle East. Such long range jets will also take care of another emerging enemy called Isra..el.


Why will we risk sending our jets deep into enemy territory in tge era of cruise misiles ?

The heavy assets are required as they can take more missiles per sortie ...

I think we should consider linking missiles at awacs and survillance aircrafts such as orions with fighter aircrafts as it will serve as force multiplyer ... we can attack much higher no of ships with much less no of fighters ...


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## loanranger

Jackdaws said:


> If PAF came into play, it would be acknowledging that they are Pak Army, not Mujahideen.


What logic. PAF would have explained targeting Indian jets by saying they are bombing our territory. Question of who PAF is protecting does not even arise.
The point is Pakistan always fought India outnumbered, outgunned and without any support and should not have been able to acheive what it managed. Yet it did. This is of a source of deep trouble to Indian officers. Imagine if Pakistan had Indias resources and size. It would be overkill.

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## ARMalik

The Accountant said:


> Why will we risk sending our jets deep into enemy territory in tge era of cruise misiles ?
> 
> The heavy assets are required as they can take more missiles per sortie ...
> 
> I think we should consider linking missiles at awacs and survillance aircrafts such as orions with fighter aircrafts as it will serve as force multiplyer ... we can attack much higher no of ships with much less no of fighters ...



Nothing is 'Risk Free' in a war. Cruise missiles are not an answer to everything. There will be situations where such long range' Jets with long range stand-off weapons and missiles will be invaluable. Pakistan will not survive a war with a "Defensive doctrine".


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## The Accountant

ARMalik said:


> Nothing is 'Risk Free' in a war. Cruise missiles are not an answer to everything. There will be situations where such long range' Jets with long range stand-off weapons and missiles will be invaluable. Pakistan will not survive a war with a "Defensive doctrine".


Agreed, but what is the first priority? Air superiority or deep strike? I would have agreed if we had 110 f16s block 60 standard armed with AMRAAM-D supported by JF 17s armed with PL15 in sufficient numbers and long range SAM coverage.

It is all about priority. Offcourse we can achieve alot with long range deep strike fighters but for that to maintain we need to maintain air superiority atleast within our borders ...

If I have money I will invest it in a air superiority platform rather than Naval strike platform ...


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## naahmad28

ARMalik said:


> Nothing is 'Risk Free' in a war. Cruise missiles are not an answer to everything. There will be situations where such long range' Jets with long range stand-off weapons and missiles will be invaluable. Pakistan will not survive a war with a "Defensive doctrine".



Who said Pakistan is following "Defensive Doctrine", Pakistan always said "No first attack".

if you have any support in terms of "Defensive doctrine", please do share with us, so that at least i can correct myself.


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## cranwerkhan

I check it every week if the google maps have updated


Windjammer said:


> Waiting for post strike images as reportedly the ammo depot structure collapsed from violent explosions and shock waves.


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## ARMalik

The Accountant said:


> Agreed, but what is the first priority? Air superiority or deep strike? I would have agreed if we had 110 f16s block 60 standard armed with AMRAAM-D supported by JF 17s armed with PL15 in sufficient numbers and long range SAM coverage.
> 
> It is all about priority. Offcourse we can achieve alot with long range deep strike fighters but for that to maintain we need to maintain air superiority atleast within our borders ...
> 
> If I have money I will invest it in a air superiority platform rather than Naval strike platform ...



Yes of course, it is a no brainier that air superiority needs to come first, and hence the appropriate Assets. But with such a huge Indian Navy, external events such as naval blockages to starve Pakistan of energy supplies, and other critical supplies means that successful blockages may have an adverse impact on Air Superiority of PAF within Pakistan borders. Indian Naval vessels do not need to be close to Pakistan waters to do this. And hence with sheer numbers, they will not only control PN, but also the blockage. But with long range jets with AESA and other goodies, these indian vessels and their naval aircrafts can be neutralized much more effectively.


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## The Accountant

ARMalik said:


> Yes of course, it is a no brainier that air superiority needs to come first, and hence the appropriate Assets. But with such a huge Indian Navy, external events such as naval blockages to starve Pakistan of energy supplies, and other critical supplies means that successful blockages may have an adverse impact on Air Superiority of PAF within Pakistan borders. Indian Naval vessels do not need to be close to Pakistan waters to do this. And hence with sheer numbers, they will not only control PN, but also the blockage. But with long range jets with AESA and other goodies, these indian vessels and their naval aircrafts can be neutralized much more effectively.


Given the following below procurements, Naval blockade is now is almost a dream:

4 Type 54
4 Milgem
upgradation of F22P
Upgradation of Agosta
Purchase of 8 AIPs subs
Coastal defence system with a range of 300 miles
Purchase of CM400 AKG

With the same offence in mind, I recommended integration of our air superiority fighters equipped with air to air missiles to be linked with long range anti ship and land attack missiles to be locked by fighter aircrafts but launched from bigger assets such as AWACS. A little out of the box and futuristic suggestion. Furthermore, if we have funds then who in the right mind would deny aquiring dedicated naval attack aircrafts. Its all about priority at hand


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## Bossman

To add to that IN’s MiG 29Ks have turned out to be lemons. Their air craft carriers are basically toothless.

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## Cool_Soldier

PN is gradually boosting its defence and offence capabilities.In coming few years, game will be neutralized . Right now, very hard to block Pakistan's territorial waters. Otherwise, India could have done it earlier.

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## Pak-Canuck

Okay, I know this has been discussed NUMEROUS times now, but please read this ENTIRE post as it's a good video analysis / comparison:

We pretty much have three versions of events:

1) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 and that same Mig-21 took out a PAF F-16 (View supported by majority of indians)

2) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 AND 1 IAF SU-30 (View supported by majority of Pakistanis)

3) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 (View supported by a good number of people from both sides)


NOW THEN, I know most of these videos have been seen before, but PLEASE HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK at ALL of them again:

1) Clip of shootdown, in vid guy clearly says 2 parachutes there






2) Vid of witness of Abhinandan capture and complete sequence of events






3) Vid recently discovered and uploaded of INDIAN witnesses claiming how their plane went over border and CAME BACK AND CRASHED IN SHER MAKRI in IOK






4) NOW FOR THE REALLY INTERESTING clips that may have been forgotten by lots of members or may not have been seen. ANOTHER WITNESS who saw Abhinandan being captured ALONG WITH SIKH PILOT(S)






5) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 1)






6) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 2)







Now then, for all intents and purposes, view point number 3 about only 1 IAF mig-21 going down can be CLEARLY thrown out the window because of all these clips, which leaves viewpoints #1 and #2. But then Clip number 3 states clearly that IAF plane went down in Sher Makri (so can't be Abhinandan's Mig-21) and CANT BE a PAF F-16 (otherwise they would have displayed that footage non-stop for the rest of eternity). Sher Makri is ALSO IN NOWSHERA sector, where this Indian anchor clearly let this slip:

7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSp3hnfZlg


And Clip #4-6 clearly mention other pilots being captured, with AT LEAST ONE BEING Sikh which only supports viewpoint number 2 with the IAF plane crashing in IOK and the pilots landing in Azad Kashmir. Don't then forget DG ISPR's initial post about 3 prisoners taken, later changed to 1.

So I know the common response by the nay-sayers would be:

A) Pak beat up and killed their own pilot, which has been debunked by clip #3 & 4 above,
B) Why change statement from 3 to 1 and why hide the fact then?

Well some probable answers would be:

1) The other captured pilots could then be easily interrogated and or tortured for info as their country wants to deny that they were even shot down or captured so no consequences there  (don't underestimate the value of a captured Weapon Systems Officer, i.e details like IAF Su-30 weapon countermeasures, tactics, squadron info, planes in which hangars etc etc)

2) As per some sightings and reports, the sikh pilot(s) died as their chute caught on fire or made a bad landing and pak not wanting to escalate the issue as the image we were portraying is that we never intended to cause loss of life in either the ground strikes or with pilot capture, and handed over the dead body without displaying images unlike with Abhinandan as it would have forced Indians to do atleast some sort of retaliation due to public pressure

3) Combination of the 2, especially with the rumors of atleast one of the pilots being Israeli which Pak kept secret on purpose and used for leverage with the US and Israel

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## khanasifm

Look if u are trying to convince someone on the others idea forget it

Move on bottom line iaf did not even accepted they lost anything and claimed all aircraft are back safely only when pilot was produced they accepted 

Not first time move on

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## aliyusuf

khanasifm said:


> Look if u are trying to convince someone on the others idea forget it
> 
> Move on bottom line iaf did not even accepted they lost anything and claimed all aircraft are back safely only when pilot was produced they accepted
> 
> Not first time move on


Although you are absolutely right in your post, but before moving on, we have to admit that @Pak-Canuck has compiled all the main video clips out there on the social media in place and summarized the possible outcome all in one convenient bundle.

A little while later another Indian member will come up with a cock-n-bull story of their own. This particular post will come in handy to debunk that member's moronic arguments when he/she attempts to derail our threads.

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## Pak-Canuck

aliyusuf said:


> Although you are absolutely right in your post, but before moving on, we have to admit that @Pak-Canuck has compiled all the main video clips out there on the social media in place and summarized the possible outcome all in one convenient bundle.
> 
> A little while later another Indian member will come up with a cock-n-bull story of their own. This particular post will come in handy to debunk that member's moronic arguments when he/she attempts to derail our threads.



Thanks, indeed all the clips are arranged to debunk any false claim, feel free to reference this entire post any time

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## LegitimateIdiot

Pak-Canuck said:


> Okay, I know this has been discussed NUMEROUS times now, but please read this ENTIRE post as it's a good video analysis / comparison:
> 
> We pretty much have three versions of events:
> 
> 1) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 and that same Mig-21 took out a PAF F-16 (View supported by majority of indians)
> 
> 2) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 AND 1 IAF SU-30 (View supported by majority of Pakistanis)
> 
> 3) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 (View supported by a good number of people from both sides)
> 
> 
> NOW THEN, I know most of these videos have been seen before, but PLEASE HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK at ALL of them again:
> 
> 1) Clip of shootdown, in vid guy clearly says 2 parachutes there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) Vid of witness of Abhinandan capture and complete sequence of events
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Vid recently discovered and uploaded of INDIAN witnesses claiming how their plane went over border and CAME BACK AND CRASHED IN SHER MAKRI in IOK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4) NOW FOR THE REALLY INTERESTING clips that may have been forgotten by lots of members or may not have been seen. ANOTHER WITNESS who saw Abhinandan being captured ALONG WITH SIKH PILOT(S)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now then, for all intents and purposes, view point number 3 about only 1 IAF mig-21 going down can be CLEARLY thrown out the window because of all these clips, which leaves viewpoints #1 and #2. But then Clip number 3 states clearly that IAF plane went down in Sher Makri (so can't be Abhinandan's Mig-21) and CANT BE a PAF F-16 (otherwise they would have displayed that footage non-stop for the rest of eternity). Sher Makri is ALSO IN NOWSHERA sector, where this Indian anchor clearly let this slip:
> 
> 7)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSp3hnfZlg
> 
> 
> And Clip #4-6 clearly mention other pilots being captured, with AT LEAST ONE BEING Sikh which only supports viewpoint number 2 with the IAF plane crashing in IOK and the pilots landing in Azad Kashmir. Don't then forget DG ISPR's initial post about 3 prisoners taken, later changed to 1.
> 
> So I know the common response by the nay-sayers would be:
> 
> A) Pak beat up and killed their own pilot, which has been debunked by clip #3 & 4 above,
> B) Why change statement from 3 to 1 and why hide the fact then?
> 
> Well some probable answers would be:
> 
> 1) The other captured pilots could then be easily interrogated and or tortured for info as their country wants to deny that they were even shot down or captured so no consequences there  (don't underestimate the value of a captured Weapon Systems Officer, i.e details like IAF Su-30 weapon countermeasures, tactics, squadron info, planes in which hangars etc etc)
> 
> 2) As per some sightings and reports, the sikh pilot(s) died as their chute caught on fire or made a bad landing and pak not wanting to escalate the issue as the image we were portraying is that we never intended to cause loss of life in either the ground strikes or with pilot capture, and handed over the dead body without displaying images unlike with Abhinandan as it would have forced Indians to do atleast some sort of retaliation due to public pressure
> 
> 3) Combination of the 2, especially with the rumors of atleast one of the pilots being Israeli which Pak kept secret on purpose and used for leverage with the US and Israel


lol that 1st Video You could see them using ropes to Secure Abhindan has Pakistan ever thought of getting handcuffs

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## Mrc

LegitimateIdiot said:


> lol that 1st Video You could see them using ropes to Secure Abhindan has Pakistan ever thought of getting handcuffs




Well with how things are going with iaf we sure will need handcuffs soon enough


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## paritosh

Pak-Canuck said:


> Okay, I know this has been discussed NUMEROUS times now, but please read this ENTIRE post as it's a good video analysis / comparison:
> 
> We pretty much have three versions of events:
> 
> 1) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 and that same Mig-21 took out a PAF F-16 (View supported by majority of indians)
> 
> 2) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 AND 1 IAF SU-30 (View supported by majority of Pakistanis)
> 
> 3) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 (View supported by a good number of people from both sides)
> 
> 
> NOW THEN, I know most of these videos have been seen before, but PLEASE HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK at ALL of them again:
> 
> 1) Clip of shootdown, in vid guy clearly says 2 parachutes there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) Vid of witness of Abhinandan capture and complete sequence of events
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Vid recently discovered and uploaded of INDIAN witnesses claiming how their plane went over border and CAME BACK AND CRASHED IN SHER MAKRI in IOK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4) NOW FOR THE REALLY INTERESTING clips that may have been forgotten by lots of members or may not have been seen. ANOTHER WITNESS who saw Abhinandan being captured ALONG WITH SIKH PILOT(S)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now then, for all intents and purposes, view point number 3 about only 1 IAF mig-21 going down can be CLEARLY thrown out the window because of all these clips, which leaves viewpoints #1 and #2. But then Clip number 3 states clearly that IAF plane went down in Sher Makri (so can't be Abhinandan's Mig-21) and CANT BE a PAF F-16 (otherwise they would have displayed that footage non-stop for the rest of eternity). Sher Makri is ALSO IN NOWSHERA sector, where this Indian anchor clearly let this slip:
> 
> 7)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSp3hnfZlg
> 
> 
> And Clip #4-6 clearly mention other pilots being captured, with AT LEAST ONE BEING Sikh which only supports viewpoint number 2 with the IAF plane crashing in IOK and the pilots landing in Azad Kashmir. Don't then forget DG ISPR's initial post about 3 prisoners taken, later changed to 1.
> 
> So I know the common response by the nay-sayers would be:
> 
> A) Pak beat up and killed their own pilot, which has been debunked by clip #3 & 4 above,
> B) Why change statement from 3 to 1 and why hide the fact then?
> 
> Well some probable answers would be:
> 
> 1) The other captured pilots could then be easily interrogated and or tortured for info as their country wants to deny that they were even shot down or captured so no consequences there  (don't underestimate the value of a captured Weapon Systems Officer, i.e details like IAF Su-30 weapon countermeasures, tactics, squadron info, planes in which hangars etc etc)
> 
> 2) As per some sightings and reports, the sikh pilot(s) died as their chute caught on fire or made a bad landing and pak not wanting to escalate the issue as the image we were portraying is that we never intended to cause loss of life in either the ground strikes or with pilot capture, and handed over the dead body without displaying images unlike with Abhinandan as it would have forced Indians to do atleast some sort of retaliation due to public pressure
> 
> 3) Combination of the 2, especially with the rumors of atleast one of the pilots being Israeli which Pak kept secret on purpose and used for leverage with the US and Israel


You know in the end, it comes down to which of our two countries can bury (no pun) the fact that a family lost a son/husband. Regardless of who is lying, it is horrible for someone willing to sacrifice their everything for the service of the nation.
Hoping a top cadre officer who had full knowledge of this, retires soon and gets an enlarged guilt conscience that forces him to publish tell-tale memoirs of what actually happened that day.


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## Bossman

LegitimateIdiot said:


> lol that 1st Video You could see them using ropes to Secure Abhindan has Pakistan ever thought of getting handcuffs


Handcuffs are not a standard issue for regular army. Think before you post and don’t be hypercritical. This is not some police TV show or a movie.

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## Myth_buster_1

LegitimateIdiot said:


> lol that 1st Video You could see them using ropes to Secure Abhindan has Pakistan ever thought of getting handcuffs



handcuffs are not standard issue for any army. They improvised AbhinoneDone's parachute lines to tie him up.

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## Ghessan

Look how this man is juggling with words:

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## Trailer23

HawkEye27 said:


> Base Commander of Mushaf Air Base in Operation Swift Retort
> 
> 
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


Does anyone have the footage for this material on YouTube?

Its done by a @tipu_creativity on *Instagram*. I've already downloaded it from Instagram. Problem is that its too small in size & due to effects used, its kinda dark.

I'm thinking of working on a new Edit and would like to add some new material - not that there is much going about these days.

@Windjammer @Hodor @HawkEye27 & anyone else who might have the footage.

P.S.: Already selected a song & it has the word '_Throttle_' in it  .

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## Talon

Trailer23 said:


> Does anyone have the footage for this material on YouTube?
> 
> Its done by a @tipu_creativity on *Instagram*. I've already downloaded it from Instagram. Problem is that its too small in size & due to effects used, its kinda dark.
> 
> I'm thinking of working on a new Edit and would like to add some new material - not that there is much going about these days.
> 
> @Windjammer @Hodor @HawkEye27 & anyone else who might have the footage.
> 
> P.S.: Already selected a song & it has the word '_Throttle_' in it  .


Ask tipu for raw, he's a good guy I am sure he'll cooperate.

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## Inception-06

Bossman said:


> To add to that IN’s MiG 29Ks have turned out to be lemons. Their air craft carriers are basically toothless.



Sir, why so, could please elaborate, why INDIAN MIG-29 are lemons ?


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## Cookie Monster

Trailer23 said:


> Naturally...it was much expected from the incoming IAF Chief that he'd speak about the encounter on 27th Feb.


Can this goal gappa fit inside a jet anymore?


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## HRK

Inception-06 said:


> Sir, why so, could please elaborate, why INDIAN MIG-29 are lemons ?


plz read: MiG-29 issues, for detail download CAG report

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## Cookie Monster

Gandhi G in da house said:


> So much work, yet not a single shred of evidence. Save it buddy.


If according to u no Su30 MKI was shot down...and Mig21 was shot down over Pakistani skies...where do u think the IAF pulled out that AMRAAM from?
I'm curious as to what u have to say about that

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## loanranger

Indians still indulging in hubris. The world has moved on and this guy is still stuck on minor details. Even if they "dodged" some of our missiles does not mean it was a huge achievement. Our missiles from what is the chatter were launched from near their maximum range with the enemy well outside the NEZ. This guy is celebrating like su30s escaped even though they were in the NEZ .
Also the Avenger 1 call sign proves nothing as callsigns can be asigned to any new aircraft aswell.

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## Riz

Cookie Monster said:


> If according to u no Su30 MKI was shot down...and Mig21 was shot down over Pakistani skies...where do u think the IAF pulled out that AMRAAM from?
> I'm curious as to what u have to say about that


Dont ask difficult questions to any indian.. Dont ask them if u found an AMRAAMs pieces within few hours then where are the remaining 5 AMRAAMs which famous SU-30mki able to dodged  successfully??


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## GriffinsRule

loanranger said:


> Indians still indulging in hubris. The world has moved on and this guy is still stuck on minor details. Even if they "dodged" some of our missiles does not mean it was a huge achievement. Our missiles from what is the chatter were launched from near their maximum range with the enemy well outside the NEZ. This guy is celebrating like su30s escaped even though they were in the NEZ .
> Also the Avenger 1 call sign proves nothing as callsigns can be asigned to any new aircraft aswell.


Why post their propaganda there though?

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## loanranger

GriffinsRule said:


> Why post their propaganda there though?


Its one the relevant threads. This is not the usual normal senseless propoganda which can be ignored. This needs to be debunked with sound logic. If you avoid the tough questions it puts a bad impression.


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## GriffinsRule

loanranger said:


> Its one the relevant threads. This is not the usual normal senseless propoganda which can be ignored. This needs to be debunked with sound logic. If you avoid the tough questions it puts a bad impression.


Its already been debunked on this forum multiple times.


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## Rafi

Riz said:


> Dont ask difficult questions to any indian.. Dont ask them if u found an AMRAAMs pieces within few hours then where are the remaining 5 AMRAAMs which famous SU-30mki able to dodged  successfully??



Because they are lodged up gangoos curry hole.

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## loanranger

Why hasn't the Su30 crash site been discovered. Is it that easy for Indians to hide a aircraft loss? What happened to the pilot's? If they survived it's easier to keep a lid on things but if they are dead why does no one talk about them.


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## Shabi1

loanranger said:


> Why hasn't the Su30 crash site been discovered. Is it that easy for Indians to hide a aircraft loss? What happened to the pilot's? If they survived it's easier to keep a lid on things but if they are dead why does no one talk about them.


1. Communication services in Kashmir are controlled by Indian military. If they can have a complete media lockout in Kashmir for several months and hide whats going on there they can hide a SU-30 crash even though there now is a eye witness claim video of one crashing in Indian territory.
2. They havnt made any claims for the second pilot that has died in Pakistan so Pakistan has no obligation to reveal. Revelation of a dead pilot would put pressure on InAF to retaliate and has some political side effects too.


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## Amigator




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## loanranger

Shabi1 said:


> 1. Communication services in Kashmir are controlled by Indian military. If they can have a complete media lockout in Kashmir for several months and hide whats going on there they can hide a SU-30 crash even though there now is a eye witness claim video of one crashing in Indian territory.
> 2. They havnt made any claims for the second pilot that has died in Pakistan so Pakistan has no obligation to reveal. Revelation of a dead pilot would put pressure on InAF to retaliate and has some political side effects too.


Your explaination is completely plausible. PAF openely claims a su30 kill. Its in the new Operation Swift Retort memorial aswell. However, it is a unseen event. Unlike the mig bison of which we had HD videos instantly. Thats the only thing the bothers me i.e. word of mouth. Along with blatant denials by indian Airforce officials and radar controllers that no su30 went down.


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## Pak-Canuck

loanranger said:


> Your explaination is completely plausible. PAF openely claims a su30 kill. Its in the new Operation Swift Retort memorial aswell. However, it is a unseen event. Unlike the mig bison of which we had HD videos instantly. Thats the only thing the bothers me i.e. word of mouth. Along with blatant denials by indian Airforce officials and radar controllers that no su30 went down.



Dont forget the detailed post #8420 in this thread which clearly has videos of witnesses on Pak side seeing "sikh pilot (s) captured" in ADDITION to Abhninandan, witnesses on Indian side that saw a FIGHTER JET coming back from Pak border in flames and crashing on Indian side (right where the infmaous indian news anchor claims SU-30 shot down by Pak F-16 in Nowshera) in addition to the video with 2 chutes coming down, so not just word of mouth

A Su-30 being shot down would be extremely embarrassing after all the showboating and obviously they would take every measure to cover it up (just like claiming the Mig-27 went down to engine failure in Kargil at the exact same time the Mig-21 was shot down), this crash didnt land near any villagers and you can be damned sure that if someone had taken a clip of it they would have then claimed that it too went down cause of engine failure

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## Pak-Canuck

Pak-Canuck said:


> Okay, I know this has been discussed NUMEROUS times now, but please read this ENTIRE post as it's a good video analysis / comparison:
> 
> We pretty much have three versions of events:
> 
> 1) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 and that same Mig-21 took out a PAF F-16 (View supported by majority of indians)
> 
> 2) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 AND 1 IAF SU-30 (View supported by majority of Pakistanis)
> 
> 3) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 (View supported by a good number of people from both sides)
> 
> 
> NOW THEN, I know most of these videos have been seen before, but PLEASE HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK at ALL of them again:
> 
> 1) Clip of shootdown, in vid guy clearly says 2 parachutes there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) Vid of witness of Abhinandan capture and complete sequence of events
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Vid recently discovered and uploaded of INDIAN witnesses claiming how their plane went over border and CAME BACK AND CRASHED IN SHER MAKRI in IOK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4) NOW FOR THE REALLY INTERESTING clips that may have been forgotten by lots of members or may not have been seen. ANOTHER WITNESS who saw Abhinandan being captured ALONG WITH SIKH PILOT(S)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now then, for all intents and purposes, view point number 3 about only 1 IAF mig-21 going down can be CLEARLY thrown out the window because of all these clips, which leaves viewpoints #1 and #2. But then Clip number 3 states clearly that IAF plane went down in Sher Makri (so can't be Abhinandan's Mig-21) and CANT BE a PAF F-16 (otherwise they would have displayed that footage non-stop for the rest of eternity). Sher Makri is ALSO IN NOWSHERA sector, where this Indian anchor clearly let this slip:
> 
> 7)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSp3hnfZlg
> 
> 
> And Clip #4-6 clearly mention other pilots being captured, with AT LEAST ONE BEING Sikh which only supports viewpoint number 2 with the IAF plane crashing in IOK and the pilots landing in Azad Kashmir. Don't then forget DG ISPR's initial post about 3 prisoners taken, later changed to 1.
> 
> So I know the common response by the nay-sayers would be:
> 
> A) Pak beat up and killed their own pilot, which has been debunked by clip #3 & 4 above,
> B) Why change statement from 3 to 1 and why hide the fact then?
> 
> Well some probable answers would be:
> 
> 1) The other captured pilots could then be easily interrogated and or tortured for info as their country wants to deny that they were even shot down or captured so no consequences there  (don't underestimate the value of a captured Weapon Systems Officer, i.e details like IAF Su-30 weapon countermeasures, tactics, squadron info, planes in which hangars etc etc)
> 
> 2) As per some sightings and reports, the sikh pilot(s) died as their chute caught on fire or made a bad landing and pak not wanting to escalate the issue as the image we were portraying is that we never intended to cause loss of life in either the ground strikes or with pilot capture, and handed over the dead body without displaying images unlike with Abhinandan as it would have forced Indians to do atleast some sort of retaliation due to public pressure
> 
> 3) Combination of the 2, especially with the rumors of atleast one of the pilots being Israeli which Pak kept secret on purpose and used for leverage with the US and Israel



Don't know how I missed it but I just found this video as well that wasn't in the list I included above!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwWO0-Z0hU

Yes, this is the footage of the Mi-17 that was shot down, but WATCH THE INTERVIEW AT 1:48 where he talks about a SECOND AIRCRAFT that crashed nearby (at 2:20) and points to the direction, mind you this IS IOK, so he is NOT TALKING ABOUT the Mig-21!!!

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## airomerix

Interestingly, the recent visit by Russian deputy commander to Islamabad revealed a few things.

On the day of his departure from Chakala, he was shown around the base since the weather was down and the delegation had to wait for a couple of hours. In a casual chat with the officers at the tea bar, he was asked point blank about Su-30 kill and apparently he was furious with the Indians and how they employed the Su-30s routinely

He briefed the pilots about the kinds of missions Su-30 is capable of and how Russians employ it (sweep, high altitude A2A etc). And he had to say that Indians have destroyed the reputation of Su-30. He said they became aware of the Su-30 loss the same night.

When asked why didnt Russia come forward with this news, he said 'its all about politics'

There were a few other things aswell which i can't post here. However this loss will come forward one day or another.

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## graphican

A witness from Indian Occupied Kashmir speaking of a crashed twin-engine fighter jet that fell in India - the second aircraft *Su-30MKI*. Thanks to @Pak-Canuck

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## Bratva

airomerix said:


> Interestingly, the recent visit by Russian deputy commander to Islamabad revealed a few things.
> 
> On the day of his departure from Chakala, he was shown around the base since the weather was down and the delegation had to wait for a couple of hours. In a casual chat with the officers at the tea bar, he was asked point blank about Su-30 kill and apparently he was furious with the Indians and how they employed the Su-30s routinely
> 
> He briefed the pilots about the kinds of missions Su-30 is capable of and how Russians employ it (sweep, high altitude A2A etc). And he had to say that Indians have destroyed the reputation of Su-30. He said they became aware of the Su-30 loss the same night.
> 
> When asked why didnt Russia come forward with this news, he said 'its all about politics'
> 
> There were a few other things aswell which i can't post here. However this loss will come forward one day or another.




why PAF is not releasing SU-30 kill evidences (electronic atleast) to counter IAF fake radar data ?

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## airomerix

Bratva said:


> why PAF is not releasing SU-30 kill evidences (electronic atleast) to counter IAF fake radar data ?



PAF did not pursue Su-30 kill aggressively for several reasons. 

The biggest one was to restore balance in the region. There was an understanding between both the AHQ's that any further claims of victories during those volatile times would build more pressure on each other from their respective governments and public alike.

IAF naturally had to push F-16 kill narrative harder due to Abhinandan's presence in Pakistan and Mi-17 crash videos being leaked. Hence it had no choice but to claim a kill to cool its public down. 

PAF, on the other hand, had a living breathing enemy officer in its possession along with the debris of the aircraft. Along with comprehensive videos of targetted attacks on Indian installations. 

Any further escalation in an effort to prove Su-30 kill could have resulted in IAF getting desperate, hence leading to another misadventure by India. It wasn't in anyone's favour.

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## Bratva

airomerix said:


> PAF did not pursue Su-30 kill aggressively for several reasons.
> 
> The biggest one was to restore balance in the region. There was an understanding between both the AHQ's that any further claims of victories during those volatile times would build more pressure on each other from their respective governments and public alike.
> 
> IAF naturally had to push F-16 kill narrative harder due to Abhinandan's presence in Pakistan and Mi-17 crash videos being leaked. Hence it had no choice but to claim a kill to cool its public down.
> 
> PAF, on the other hand, had a living breathing enemy officer in its possession along with the debris of the aircraft. Along with comprehensive videos of targetted attacks on Indian installations.
> 
> Any further escalation in an effort to prove Su-30 kill could have resulted in IAF getting desperate, hence leading to another misadventure by India. It wasn't in anyone's favour.



This came from Kaiser Tufail latest article. 

"PAF retaliated within 30 hours of the IAF strike, and hit Indian military targets with stand-off bombs, staying well within own territory. The sizeable strike package including its escorts, as well as the accompanying fighter sweep aircraft swamped the Indian air defence radar scopes, and the patrolling Su-30 aircraft were promptly vectored towards the PAF swarm. Sooner the PAF strike fighters had delivered the bombs and turned around, the F-16s and JF-17s swept the skies, with very useful support from data-linked AEWC and ground radars, as well as from own formation members. The pilots were glued to their multi-function displays streaming vital information and firing cues. It was as if a whole squadron was playing a mass video game in the skies. With excellent situational awareness, and the adversary in disarray, *an F-16 fired a BVR AMRAAM (AIM-120C) at an approaching Su-30. Whether the aircraft survived with nil or minor damage, or was hit critically remains moot, but the missile coming from nowhere and exploding in the vicinity resulted in complete panic amongst the IAF aircraft. 

*

DG ISPR is insistently claiming Pakistan Shot down SU-30. PAF Awarded SU-30 claim to Hassan Siddique

On the other hand, Kaiser Tufail is still casting doubts on SU-30 Kill claim

Don't you feel, Kaiser Tufail is knowledgeable yet not insisting on SU-30 kill claim is kind of an indication PAF is not sure about SU-30 claim at all ?

P.S. If the intention was to de-escalate, wasn't it better to not claim a SU-30 kill ? or not let PAF give medals to Hassan Siddique and Stop DG ISPR tweeting about SU-30 kill until now ? Because all of these things are making Pakistan look weak that they are claiming things without evidence and making Pakistan narrative weaker that they are lying.


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## SIPRA

Bratva said:


> This came from Kaiser Tufail latest article.
> 
> "PAF retaliated within 30 hours of the IAF strike, and hit Indian military targets with stand-off bombs, staying well within own territory. The sizeable strike package including its escorts, as well as the accompanying fighter sweep aircraft swamped the Indian air defence radar scopes, and the patrolling Su-30 aircraft were promptly vectored towards the PAF swarm. Sooner the PAF strike fighters had delivered the bombs and turned around, the F-16s and JF-17s swept the skies, with very useful support from data-linked AEWC and ground radars, as well as from own formation members. The pilots were glued to their multi-function displays streaming vital information and firing cues. It was as if a whole squadron was playing a mass video game in the skies. With excellent situational awareness, and the adversary in disarray, *an F-16 fired a BVR AMRAAM (AIM-120C) at an approaching Su-30. Whether the aircraft survived with nil or minor damage, or was hit critically remains moot, but the missile coming from nowhere and exploding in the vicinity resulted in complete panic amongst the IAF aircraft.
> 
> *
> 
> DG ISPR is insistently claiming Pakistan Shot down SU-30. PAF Awarded SU-30 claim to Hassan Siddique
> 
> On the other hand, Kaiser Tufail is still casting doubts on SU-30 Kill claim
> 
> Don't you feel, Kaiser Tufail is knowledgeable yet not insisting on SU-30 kill claim is kind of an indication PAF is not sure about SU-30 claim at all ?
> 
> P.S. If the intention was to de-escalate, wasn't it better to not claim a SU-30 kill ? or not let PAF give medals to Hassan Siddique and Stop DG ISPR tweeting about SU-30 kill until now ? Because all of these things are making Pakistan look weak that they are claiming things without evidence and making Pakistan narrative weaker that they are lying.



Only one correction. DG (ISPR) has only claimed a second kill; but he never mentioned it to be SU-30.


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## airomerix

Bratva said:


> This came from Kaiser Tufail latest article.
> 
> "PAF retaliated within 30 hours of the IAF strike, and hit Indian military targets with stand-off bombs, staying well within own territory. The sizeable strike package including its escorts, as well as the accompanying fighter sweep aircraft swamped the Indian air defence radar scopes, and the patrolling Su-30 aircraft were promptly vectored towards the PAF swarm. Sooner the PAF strike fighters had delivered the bombs and turned around, the F-16s and JF-17s swept the skies, with very useful support from data-linked AEWC and ground radars, as well as from own formation members. The pilots were glued to their multi-function displays streaming vital information and firing cues. It was as if a whole squadron was playing a mass video game in the skies. With excellent situational awareness, and the adversary in disarray, *an F-16 fired a BVR AMRAAM (AIM-120C) at an approaching Su-30. Whether the aircraft survived with nil or minor damage, or was hit critically remains moot, but the missile coming from nowhere and exploding in the vicinity resulted in complete panic amongst the IAF aircraft.
> 
> *
> 
> DG ISPR is insistently claiming Pakistan Shot down SU-30. PAF Awarded SU-30 claim to Hassan Siddique
> 
> On the other hand, Kaiser Tufail is still casting doubts on SU-30 Kill claim
> 
> Don't you feel, Kaiser Tufail is knowledgeable yet not insisting on SU-30 kill claim is kind of an indication PAF is not sure about SU-30 claim at all ?



Kaiser Tufail is an honourable man who is very much active in international aviation communities aswell. 

The nature of his activities and participation with international counterparts requires him to be analytical and credible in his approach. The Su-30 kill evidence (electronic or physical) has not been released by either of the Air Forces. Hence Kaiser Tufail will hate to pen anything down which would cast doubts over his entire narrative due to lack of evidence. 

I spoke to him in March, 2019 and till that time he was still waiting for the evidence of the Su-30 kill which PAF refused to share for reasons stated in my earlier post.

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## Bratva

SIPRA said:


> Only one correction. DG (ISPR) has only claimed a second kill; but he never mentioned it to be SU-30.



Read his tweets from his Personal Account. He claimed Su-30 Kill couple months back. Few days ago, he again tweeted about the second kill claim.

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## airomerix

SIPRA said:


> Only one correction. DG (ISPR) has only claimed a second kill; but he never mentioned it to be SU-30.



It's no secret that it was a Su-30. The memorial at Mushaf and Karachi museum speaks loud and clear. The difference is, we're just not rubbing it in the face of the Indian government and public.

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## SIPRA

Bratva said:


> Read his tweets from his Personal Account. He claimed Su-30 Kill couple months back. Few days ago, he again tweeted about the second kill claim.



Sorry. You have not properly read my post. Of course, he has always claimed a second kill of Indian aircraft and its crash in IoJk; but he has never mentioned it to be SU-30. That is what I am saying.



airomerix said:


> It's no secret that it was a Su-30. The memorial at Mushaf and Karachi museum speaks loud and clear. The difference is, we're just not rubbing it in the face of the Indian government and public.



Of course. I as only making a specific correction that SU-30 has never been named by DG(ISPR).


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## Bratva

SIPRA said:


> Sorry. You have not properly read my post. Of course, he has always claimed a second kill of Indian aircraft and its crash in IoJk; but he has never mentioned it to be SU-30. That is what I am saying.



He wrote SU-30 in his tweet from his personal account.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164882423101960192

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## SIPRA

Bratva said:


> He wrote SU-30 in his tweet from his personal account.



Sorry. I haven't seen any such tweet, where SU-30 is mentioned.


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## Bratva

SIPRA said:


> Sorry. I haven't seen any such tweet, where SU-30 is mentioned.



Check my above post again.

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## SIPRA

Bratva said:


> Check my above post again.



Thanks and Sorry. You are right. I stand corrected. I didn't see this tweet before.


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## Bratva

airomerix said:


> Kaiser Tufail is an honourable man who is very much active in international aviation communities aswell.
> 
> The nature of his activities and participation with international counterparts requires him to be analytical and credible in his approach. The Su-30 kill evidence (electronic or physical) has not been released by either of the Air Forces. Hence Kaiser Tufail will hate to pen anything down which would cast doubts over his entire narrative due to lack of evidence.
> 
> I spoke to him in March, 2019 and till that time he was still waiting for the evidence of the Su-30 kill which PAF refused to share for reasons stated in my earlier post.



Does 2nd pilot exist or that was a major blunder from DG-ISPR as he didn't vet the info properly before claiming something?

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## airomerix

Bratva said:


> Does 2nd pilot exist or that was a major blunder from DG-ISPR as he didn't vet the info properly before claiming something?



Honestly, it's a mystery for me too. 

Some of my colleagues in the intelligence community also confirmed the presence of the 2nd pilot. Later on, retracted their claims. Either he was sent back through back door channels or he is still with us. God knows.

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## SQ8

Bratva said:


> Does 2nd pilot exist or that was a major blunder from DG-ISPR as he didn't vet the info properly before claiming something?


Talk on this side of the pond says it was fog of war but the Indians did lose a second jet. 

Why the elint data isn’t shared is probably the usual “need to know” basis for the PAF staff. 
The systems I know of would display it in track emissions in 2d graphs. Whether that picture gets correlated with what Radar sees in the Erieye is unknown but most sensor fusion would show a track and then it dropping off.

whether that is sufficient for a kill is moot

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## TsAr

Oscar said:


> Talk on this side of the pond says it was fog of war but the Indians did lose a second jet.
> 
> Why the elint data isn’t shared is probably the usual “need to know” basis for the PAF staff.
> The systems I know of would display it in track emissions in 2d graphs. Whether that picture gets correlated with what Radar sees in the Erieye is unknown but most sensor fusion would show a track and then it dropping off.
> 
> whether that is sufficient for a kill is moot


Oscar where have u been, long time no see....

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## The Eagle

Oscar said:


> Talk on this side of the pond says it was fog of war but the Indians did lose a second jet.
> 
> Why the elint data isn’t shared is probably the usual “need to know” basis for the PAF staff.
> The systems I know of would display it in track emissions in 2d graphs. Whether that picture gets correlated with what Radar sees in the Erieye is unknown but most sensor fusion would show a track and then it dropping off.
> 
> whether that is sufficient for a kill is moot



Good to hear from you.


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## PaulSimon

Oscar said:


> Talk on this side of the pond says it was fog of war but the Indians did lose a second jet.
> 
> Why the elint data isn’t shared is probably the usual “need to know” basis for the PAF staff.
> The systems I know of would display it in track emissions in 2d graphs. Whether that picture gets correlated with what Radar sees in the Erieye is unknown but most sensor fusion would show a track and then it dropping off.
> 
> whether that is sufficient for a kill is moot



This incident will continue to haunt India and IAF in particular for decades to come.

SU-30MKI has fall from grace.


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## BATMAN

At least.. there's a realization among Pakistanis that events of 27th February amounts to a WAR!

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## Dalai Lama

This thread is still going?

How gullible do you fanboys have to be to claim an SU-30 kill without a _*single*_ shred of evidence? It's like GoI claiming 300 insurgent deaths when they most likely didn't even want to cause any deaths.

If PAF had any evidence to support the kill, they would have released it in a heartbeat. I'm not buying this "need to know" poppycock. Even the fact that they have an entire section in their museum dedicated to this skirmish tells you a lot.

You guys would make better opponents if you didn't over estimate your abilities and under estimate our's as much as you do.

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## BATMAN

Internal Matter said:


> This thread is still going?
> 
> How gullible do you fanboys have to be to claim an SU-30 kill without a _*single*_ shred of evidence? It's like GoI claiming 300 insurgent deaths when they most likely didn't even want to cause any deaths.
> 
> If PAF had any evidence to support the kill, they would have released it in a heartbeat. I'm not buying this "need to know" poppycock. Even the fact that they have an entire section in their museum dedicated to this skirmish tells you a lot.
> 
> You guys would make better opponents if you didn't over estimate your abilities and under estimate our's as much as you do.



I agree, when it's official from both sides.. than ISPR must come out with all they got, but than may be it's not as simple as need to know basis control, may be they don't want to reveal their modus operandi and hardware.

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## TheTallGuy

Internal Matter said:


> This thread is still going?
> 
> How gullible do you fanboys have to be to claim an SU-30 kill without a _*single*_ shred of evidence? It's like GoI claiming 300 insurgent deaths when they most likely didn't even want to cause any deaths.
> 
> If PAF had any evidence to support the kill, they would have released it in a heartbeat. I'm not buying this "need to know" poppycock. Even the fact that they have an entire section in their museum dedicated to this skirmish tells you a lot.
> 
> You guys would make better opponents if you didn't over estimate your abilities and under estimate our's as much as you do.



Well if you are looking for wreckage of Su-30MKI please visit Kashmir..go to now "closed" Avantipura FOB you will find it in one of HAS.

One should be worried IAF did not fire a single missile...this should be your worry how can you sleep!

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## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Well if you are looking for wreckage of Su-30MKI please visit Kashmir..go to now "closed" Avantipura FOB you will find it in one of HAS.
> 
> One should be worried IAF did not fire a single missile...this should be your worry how can you sleep!


Hi @TheTallGuy are you still believe/stand your conspiracy theory that PAF shot down 8 IAF jets on Feb 27


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## Windjammer

Internal Matter said:


> This thread is still going?
> 
> How gullible do you fanboys have to be to claim an SU-30 kill without a _*single*_ shred of evidence? It's like GoI claiming 300 insurgent deaths when they most likely didn't even want to cause any deaths.
> 
> If PAF had any evidence to support the kill, they would have released it in a heartbeat. I'm not buying this "need to know" poppycock. Even the fact that they have an entire section in their museum dedicated to this skirmish tells you a lot.
> 
> You guys would make better opponents if you didn't over estimate your abilities and under estimate our's as much as you do.


May be you need to ask your own Agni Pankh Patils that why they have turned the top Russian air-superiority fighter into a mere flycatcher. How pathetic of one of the largest airforces to claim that they were busy in dodging missiles instead of firing their own.
Better to remain on the ground hence no missiles would be fired and IAF wouldn't have to take any risks.

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## Dil Pakistan

Windjammer said:


> May be you need to ask your own Agni Pankh Patils that why they have turned the top Russian air-superiority fighter into a mere flycatcher. How pathetic of one of the largest airforces to claim that they were busy in dodging missiles instead of firing their own. *Better to remain on the ground hence no missiles would be fired and IAF wouldn't have to take any risks*.



This statement is as savage as a PL-15 going into your head.

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## SQ8

The Eagle said:


> Good to hear from you.


Will be gone again once the new year hits



TsAr said:


> Oscar where have u been, long time no see....


Enjoying life Alhamdulillah..

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## TheTallGuy

seven0seven said:


> Hi @TheTallGuy are you still believe/stand your conspiracy theory that PAF shot down 8 IAF jets on Feb 27



My claim of 8 kills was thoroughly swept away by PAF itself.

they are on record that they had 9 x aircraft including helicopter locked and loaded..they were given order to shoot one! that is Su-30MKI at start. which was done by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. 2nd order of shoot was given in "Majboori" because MiG-21 crossed LOC.

It hurts!

PAF & Political masters had shown too much of generosity to the enemy that day and in subsequent events.

Look where are we now..this will go down in history as a "Military Blunder" just as "Akhnur in 1965" was. for public consumption things are different.

Too much was given for far too less.

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## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> My claim of 8 kills was thoroughly swept away by PAF itself.
> 
> they are on record that they had 9 x aircraft including helicopter locked and loaded..they were given order to shoot one! that is Su-30MKI at start. which was done by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. 2nd order of shoot was given in "Majboori" because MiG-21 crossed LOC.
> 
> It hurts!
> 
> PAF & Political masters had shown too much of generosity to the enemy that day and in subsequent events.
> 
> Look where are we now..this will go down in history as a "Military Blunder" just as "Akhnur in 1965" was. for public consumption things are different.
> 
> Too much was given for far too less.


your TALL claims of downing 8 IAF jets has no proofs, i believes in official source rather than your baseless assumptions, and PAF knows better what it is doing, for Akhnur in 1965 may be it blunder for you, but do you know what is situation in Akhnur for Pakistan military in 1965

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## TheTallGuy

seven0seven said:


> your TALL claims of downing 8 IAF jets has no proofs, i believes in official source rather than your baseless assumptions, and PAF knows better what it is doing, for Akhnur in 1965 may be it blunder for you, but do you know what is situation in Akhnur for Pakistan military in 1965



Mr.707, do not be naive..i had made claim as what ever info i had collected and objective correlated and lots of info was validated in terms of locks and enemy planes in the area.

This "PAF knows better what it is doing" is just a passionate statement....officials did not told you The Air Cdr.Sattar Alvi shot down a Israeli Mirage for 25 years. so please keep your mind open.

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## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Mr.707, do not be naive..i had made claim as what ever info i had collected and objective correlated and lots of info was validated in terms of locks and enemy planes in the area.
> 
> This "PAF knows better what it is doing" is just a passionate statement....officials did not told you The Air Cdr.Sattar Alvi shot down a Israeli Mirage for 25 years. so please keep your mind open.


you assessments based on what please tell me, there is no PAF or DOD sources that you can collected such information Mr-007 and lock doesn't means PAF shot down, do you know what is the meaning of LOCK , Mr FAKE EXPERT


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## TheTallGuy

seven0seven said:


> you assessments based on what please tell me, there is no PAF or DOD sources that you can collected such information Mr-007 and lock doesn't means PAF shot down, do you know what is the meaning of LOCK , Mr FAKE EXPERT



Brother, please ignore me...i have little knowledge ...and i am fake expert.

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## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Brother, please ignore me...i have little knowledge ...and i am fake expert.


you have no solid source, most PDF members don't agree on you


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## TheTallGuy

Thank God I dont..if i had and told you on a open Forum. I should be hanged and shot at same time..then my body me dragged in D-Chowk and placed for 3 days..so people can understand..

on Serious note...PDF members are correct.

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## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Thank God I dont..if i had and told you on a open Forum. I should be hanged and shot at same time..then my body me dragged in D-Chowk and placed for 3 days..so people can understand..
> 
> on Serious note...PDF members are correct.


you're nobody to bring fake claims of yours without single solid proofs, you have 2 option kindly bring the solid proofs or stay silent


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## TheTallGuy

ACM Sahib, 
Let it go..just see what you are up against...in coming days and month. 

let it be..

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## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> ACM Sahib,
> Let it go..just see what you are up against...in coming days and month.
> 
> let it be..


can you provide your source to backup and stop blabbering


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## HawkEye27

Meanwhile at PAF Base Minhas

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## baqai

seven0seven said:


> can you provide your source to backup and stop blabbering



@TheTallGuy has said multiple times to let it go but it seems to me that you want to brush it against his face, he had theory and he wrote his assumptions, official version of the conflict which came out is against those assumptions, he was proven wrong, end of story, why are you giving him a hard time? 

these forums are for discussion and to share views, if you find his views absurd than just ignore? chill out dude

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## TheTallGuy

baqai said:


> @TheTallGuy has said multiple times to let it go but it seems to me that you want to brush it against his face, he had theory and he wrote his assumptions, official version of the conflict which came out is against those assumptions, he was proven wrong, end of story, why are you giving him a hard time?
> 
> these forums are for discussion and to share views, if you find his views absurd than just ignore? chill out dude



Sir, he is angry not because of me posting..he is actually frustrated that my analysis was wrong. what was not done..which should have been done.

that is the actual cause..he is correct in his venting of frustration.


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## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Sir, he is angry not because of me posting..he is actually frustrated that my analysis was wrong. what was not done..which should have been done.
> 
> that is the actual cause..he is correct in his venting of frustration.


What you source you have, are you in Pakistani military, are you have relative in Pakistani military, in what base you this pathetic analysis of yours, and i am not frustrated but laughing at your so called pathetic analysis


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## aliyusuf

seven0seven said:


> What you source you have, are you in Pakistani military, are you have relative in Pakistani military, in what base you this pathetic analysis of yours, and i am not frustrated but laughing at your so called pathetic analysis


Frankly brother, let it be.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheTallGuy said:


> My claim of 8 kills was thoroughly swept away by PAF itself.
> they are on record that they had *9 x aircraft including helicopter locked and loaded*..they were given order to shoot one! that is Su-30MKI at start. which was done by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. 2nd order of shoot was given in "Majboori" because MiG-21 crossed LOC.
> 
> It hurts!
> 
> PAF & Political masters had shown too much of generosity to the enemy that day and in subsequent events.
> 
> Look where are we now..this will go down in history as a "Military Blunder" just as "Akhnur in 1965" was. for public consumption things are different.
> 
> Too much was given for far too less.


It's the key for then, now and in coming days...


----------



## DrWatson775

I wonder if this is *THE* Abhinandan commenting on Kaiser Tufail's blog last year. 
This specific page is titled "*Deadly Stroke*"

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## Areesh

Areesh said:


> Nobody killed from our side. Might be another fake name by Indian media.
> 
> It took your military 12 days to destroy few trees after losing 44 men. Obviously we would take some time to avenge our trees.





Areesh said:


> Not really. The response would be given. And we all know that
> 
> Except modi and it's military nobody axed its foot.





Areesh said:


> In Islam we are only allowed to mourn for 3 days. But since we lost only few trees so hopefully we won't let you wait much.





Areesh said:


> Response is coming
> 
> Wait for it





Areesh said:


> Lets wait a few days
> 
> Don't behave like idiots. We did made them bleed after last surgical strike drama. I am definite something would do this time too





Areesh said:


> Same armed forces that are fooling you with same dramas?
> 
> Anyways response would come. That is for sure.



BC I just realized how correct I was on 26 Fenruary 2019 

I can predict future

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## PakSword

Areesh said:


> BC I just realized how correct I was on 26 Fenruary 2019
> 
> I can predict future





Armani said:


> Media reports saying all IAF pilots accounted for.
> 
> Guess Pak wanted to capture some civilian like Kulbushan Yadav and pass him off as IAF pilot





AyanRay said:


> IAF just confirmed, all IAF jets and pilots are accounted for.





Jackdaws said:


> India rejects Pakistan's claim of Air Force jet being shot down, says all pilots accounted for: sources
> 
> Lagta hai khudke hi planes uda diye.





Chhatrapati said:


> IAF pilots don't sport long mustaches unless he's a Sikh but he has no turban either.





indian my friend said:


> I feel sorry for this gentleman hope pakistan will show some mercy we must stop the war and ask for our pilots every life matters





SirHatesALot said:


> they have captured Indian pilots there are videos and pics all over the internet Pakistanis have won. Indian Armed forces are incompetent





arbit said:


> I am worried for my man in your custody (if true). I am not worried about the eventual outcome of this battle.
> Your guys killed 40 of our people in a suicide attack. You must pay the price.





SirHatesALot said:


> I agree at least for the sake of Indian Armed forces there should be peace





KRAIT said:


> IAF pilots are not allowed to keep mustaches.





ThinkLogically said:


> Sorry guys, better luck next time. No damage to IAF Aircrafts. You F16 is down.

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## Areesh

Funny to read all these posts again

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## Jackdaws

Just shows the reputation you enjoy as it is unbelievable that you could even shoot down one plane. Congrats on proving us wrong.


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## SIPRA

Areesh said:


> Funny to read all these posts again



A separate thread shall be opened on this, where all these pearls of key Indian posters, on Feb 26/27 happenings, shall be posted together.

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## loanranger

SIPRA said:


> A separate thread shall be opened on this, where all these pearls of key Indian posters, on Feb 26/27 happenings, shall be posted together.


By all means. Indian defence forum loves to take screenshots of PDF posts anyway. Lets give them something to enjoy 



DrWatson775 said:


> View attachment 595266
> 
> 
> I wonder if this is *THE* Abhinandan commenting on Kaiser Tufail's blog last year.
> This specific page is titled "*Deadly Stroke*"


Who knows it's possible but can never be proven right. Unless you can get me that guys IP adress.


----------



## PakFactor

Lol those posts are funny how they immediately changed tone as well towards the end.

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## airomerix

It's no secret that quite a number of jets were locked by each other during swift retort. 

Fighters were constantly turning cold and hot to break these radar locks. Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s were engaging and jamming IAF ground based radars. 4 F-16s had a radar lock on 7 to 9 IAF jets (all 4 mig 21s, 2 x su-30's and 2 other jets, likely mirage 2000s)

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## gangsta_rap

airomerix said:


> Two JF-17s equipped with AESA


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## Areesh

Jackdaws said:


> Just shows the reputation you enjoy as it is unbelievable that you could even shoot down one plane. Congrats on proving us wrong.



Funny you say that. Only shows that you lack shame

Because history shows that even by neutral claims your airforce lost dozens of aircraft in all wars while shooting down not even half of Pakistani aircraft in return



SIPRA said:


> A separate thread shall be opened on this, where all these pearls of key Indian posters, on Feb 26/27 happenings, shall be posted together.



I will InshaAllah

In fact since February is near several things are in my plans. Fun times ahead

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## DrWatson775

airomerix said:


> It's no secret that quite a number of jets were locked by each other during swift retort.
> 
> Fighters were constantly turning cold and hot to break these radar locks. Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s were engaging and jamming IAF ground based radars. 4 F-16s had a radar lock on 7 to 9 IAF jets (all 4 mig 21s, 2 x su-30's and 2 other jets, likely mirage 2000s)





Angry Easterling said:


>



AESAs could have been the ones under evaluation.... one would expect an air force to actually test an AESA on the aircraft before choosing it

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Jackdaws said:


> Just shows the reputation you enjoy as it is unbelievable that you could even shoot down one plane. Congrats on proving us wrong.





The reputation of being the first ever nation in all recorded human history to have successfully thwarted an enemy that is more than 7× bigger than us for over 72 years..........................on 27/02/2019, 7× bigger india was too WEAK, PATHETIC and POWERLESS to do ANYTHING to Pakistan after we shot down indian fighter jets......despite even having the full backing of the West and Russia.................

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Jackdaws said:


> 7x bigger for 72 years? But weren't you a little bigger for your first 25? LOL.





Nowhere near as big as india was until a Pakistani minority conquered and annexed nearly 40% of former indian territory to create Pakistan...............and there is NOTHING indian kind can do to get that former conquered territory back again...................That's right! We open wide the legs of mother india, carved and dismembered her to create Pakistan....................

The racially inferior indian race still feels that pain today which manifests as extreme hatred towards Muslims and Pakistanis........... .........


----------



## Raider 21

airomerix said:


> It's no secret that quite a number of jets were locked by each other during swift retort.
> 
> Fighters were constantly turning cold and hot to break these radar locks. Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s were engaging and jamming IAF ground based radars. 4 F-16s had a radar lock on 7 to 9 IAF jets (all 4 mig 21s, 2 x su-30's and 2 other jets, likely mirage 2000s)


A chaff cloud like a fishing net ruined their day.


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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> It's no secret that quite a number of jets were locked by each other during swift retort.
> 
> Fighters were constantly turning cold and hot to break these radar locks. Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s were engaging and jamming IAF ground based radars. 4 F-16s had a radar lock on 7 to 9 IAF jets (all 4 mig 21s, 2 x su-30's and 2 other jets, likely mirage 2000s)


Thunders with AESA? Thats something new. I wonder why PL 15 were not used then
@HRK @Hodor @Windjammer @messiach @The Eagle @Dazzler



Areesh said:


> We did made them bleed after last surgical strike drama


Can u elaborate it a little?

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## aliyusuf

airomerix said:


> Two JF-17s equipped with AESA


Which AESA? 
Is it the LIHUA LKF601E? 
Retrofit on Block-IIs? 

Kindly elaborate.

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## Maxpane

woooooooow jf 17 with aesa


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## NA71

Jackdaws said:


> Just shows the reputation you enjoy as it is unbelievable that you could even shoot down one plane. Congrats on proving us wrong.



it is quite believable that your pilots have ruined the reputation of SU-30MKI (as Russians have also acknowledged it in private chit chat) ....and it will be repeated in future when another fat a..s IAF pilot in Rafale gets hit ..and later having fantastic tea....

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## Areesh

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Can u elaborate it a little?



https://www.newindianexpress.com/na...an-troops-after-surgical-strikes-1542254.html

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## untitled

Not the first time @airomerix has mentioned this. Not sure why many are surprised


airomerix said:


> Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s


I think we can guess the origin of the radar from the above sentence

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## TheTallGuy

@airomerix 

then why did not special JF17s open fire?


----------



## Irfan Baloch

@Jackdaws and @PAKISTANFOREVER 

dear members please give yourself a break and stop personal and unnecessary arguments.
take a break from this thread and each other.

thanks and happy holidays

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## The Accountant

member.exe said:


> Not the first time @airomerix has mentioned this. Not sure why many are surprised
> 
> I think we can guess the origin of the radar from the above sentence


I dont think its a radar. I feel its a jamming pod. We heared the rumours that jf17 is being modified serve the role. Never knew that it is already done. @messiach @airomerix can u please reveal whats the reality if AESA


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

member.exe said:


> I think we can guess the origin of the radar from the above sentence


But why not PL 15s were used then



TheTallGuy said:


> @airomerix
> 
> then why did not special JF17s open fire?


AIM 120C5 has greater range then SD 10


----------



## Ali_Baba

The Accountant said:


> I dont think its a radar. I feel its a jamming pod. We heared the rumours that jf17 is being modified serve the role. Never knew that it is already done. @messiach @airomerix can u please reveal whats the reality if AESA



JF17 Jamming Pods make more sense than an AESA radar, for sure!


----------



## MastanKhan

airomerix said:


> It's no secret that quite a number of jets were locked by each other during swift retort.
> 
> Fighters were constantly turning cold and hot to break these radar locks. Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s were engaging and jamming IAF ground based radars. 4 F-16s had a radar lock on 7 to 9 IAF jets (all 4 mig 21s, 2 x su-30's and 2 other jets, likely mirage 2000s)




Hi,

Thank you for the aesa report on the blk2---.

Your's seems to be the proper information---. I myself had believed for awhile that it is not possible for the Paf to have not decided on the aesa radar when the BLK3 is in the build mode---.

Technically speaking---the aesa would have been operational on test aircraft 2 to 3 years ahead of production if not one year at the least.

If this is the case---then we are looking at a shorter but intense integration time---.

Thank you for sharing---.



Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> But why not PL 15s were used then
> 
> 
> AIM 120C5 has greater range then SD 10



Hi,

It is not as simple as that---. It is the altitude that it is launched from---it is the distance it is launched from---the angle it is launched at---the terminal speed of the missile---.

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## airomerix

DrWatson775 said:


> AESAs could have been the ones under evaluation.... one would expect an air force to actually test an AESA on the aircraft before choosing it



Absolutely. It was a high time to gauge their operational effectiveness in a high threat environment.



Knuckles said:


> A chaff cloud like a fishing net ruined their day.


Not to mention, radar locks from two different platforms at BVR range was disturbing for IAF. 

Just 10 years ago, all they had to worry about was to not get painted by an AIM-9L at close distances. 

Today they have to learn about evading AIM-120C. SD-10 and PL-15. Lots of work for an Indian fighter pilot.



Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Thunders with AESA? Thats something new. I wonder why PL 15 were not used then
> @HRK @Hodor @Windjammer @messiach @The Eagle @Dazzler
> 
> 
> Can u elaborate it a little?



The mission requirement was for SD-10. PL-15s were new and we didn't have them until March.

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## Dazzler

airomerix said:


> Absolutely. It was a high time to gauge their operational effectiveness in a high threat environment.
> 
> 
> Not to mention, radar locks from two different platforms at BVR range was disturbing for IAF.
> 
> Just 10 years ago, all they had to worry about was to not get painted by an AIM-9L at close distances.
> 
> Today they have to learn about evading AIM-120C. SD-10 and PL-15. Lots of work for an Indian fighter pilot.



Only one type of AESA can be equipped on blk 2.


----------



## airomerix

aliyusuf said:


> Which AESA?
> Is it the LIHUA LKF601E?
> Retrofit on Block-IIs?
> 
> Kindly elaborate.


It is not public information and cannot be disclosed. 

Frankly, I don't know either.



The Accountant said:


> I dont think its a radar. I feel its a jamming pod. We heared the rumours that jf17 is being modified serve the role. Never knew that it is already done. @messiach @airomerix can u please reveal whats the reality if AESA



AESA radars have a certain jamming capability which suppresses the enemy's tracking capabilities. 

For example, F-22 Raptors AESA can command an instruction to enemy radar system to 'not lock' or change targets. Systems are being designed to incorporate multiple capabilities which were formerly supplemented by external devices.

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## baqai

airomerix said:


> It is not public information and cannot be disclosed.
> 
> Frankly, I don't know either.
> 
> 
> 
> AESA radars have a certain jamming capability which suppresses the enemy's tracking capabilities.
> 
> For example, F-22 Raptors AESA can command an instruction to enemy radar system to 'not lock' or change targets. Systems are being designed to incorporate multiple capabilities which were formerly supplemented by external devices.



sir the AESA used in the sortie is the same which we will see in the final roll out? secondly what were the impressions of the radar in combat situation? it was okay, did fairly well or went beyond prototype expectations?


----------



## TsAr

baqai said:


> sir the AESA used in the sortie is the same which we will see in the final roll out? secondly what were the impressions of the radar in combat situation? it was okay, did fairly well or went beyond prototype expectations?


I doubt he has the answer to it or he is allowed to answer it.

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## Talon



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## airomerix

baqai said:


> sir the AESA used in the sortie is the same which we will see in the final roll out? secondly what were the impressions of the radar in combat situation? it was okay, did fairly well or went beyond prototype expectations?



The type of AESA and its performance metrics are secrets. And i dont know about them either. 

This is because we cannot give any information to indians for them to study the capabilities of JF-17s during 27th and beyond. Since their AWACS has been tracking our activity aswell, we certainly do not want them to understand the key aspects of our AESA radars by studying the behaviour of our jets.

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## The Eagle

airomerix said:


> It's no secret that quite a number of jets were locked by each other during swift retort.
> 
> Fighters were constantly turning cold and hot to break these radar locks. Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s were engaging and jamming IAF ground based radars. 4 F-16s had a radar lock on 7 to 9 IAF jets (all 4 mig 21s, 2 x su-30's and 2 other jets, likely mirage 2000s)



Should never come to the public and even denial will create more issues. You are advised to not to make any thing public until & unless, there is a "Go" for it. In certain course of know it all; it will create more hurdles on several level for the men in uniform and our repute of being responsible. Regretfully, such info whether credible or not, will be taken down accordingly. Let's act responsibly.

Regards,

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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> The type of AESA and its performance metrics are secrets. And i dont know about them either.
> 
> This is because we cannot give any information to indians for them to study the capabilities of JF-17s during 27th and beyond. Since their AWACS has been tracking our activity aswell, we certainly do not want them to understand the key aspects of our AESA radars by studying the behaviour of our jets.


So it means F 16s are compromised? Since Indians have know how about them thru Singapore and other places and our V Upgrade of F16s wont have much effect on Indians?


----------



## TheTallGuy

Just a question...
Do radars come in normal mode and war mode? i mean in peace time they have a different frequencies and in wartime they have different frequencies? thus different performances.

I know this about SAM radars but do not know about Air Borne Radars...

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## StormBreaker

loanranger said:


> https://www.airforce-technology.com...tallation-on-pakistani-f-16-fighters-4391269/
> When I say something I mean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy


“Viman ne pakistan janay ki koshish ke lekin wo fauran wapas aata nazr aaya aur phir gir gaya”

*GOLDEN WORDS*
*
Mess with the best*
*Die like the rest !!!*​

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## StormBreaker

Both sides are hot, If we recall 25 and 26 feb, today we are at exact similar situation, both AirFs on high alert. CAPs and all. 

May Allah Always Give success to our Armed forces and make the impossible missions/goals possible for them with 0 collateral damage and protection of Civils.

Ameen

Pray for your country and Armed forces 

Let the Gangus come, We are not afraid to Fight !!!

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## ziaulislam

airomerix said:


> The type of AESA and its performance metrics are secrets. And i dont know about them either.
> 
> This is because we cannot give any information to indians for them to study the capabilities of JF-17s during 27th and beyond. Since their AWACS has been tracking our activity aswell, we certainly do not want them to understand the key aspects of our AESA radars by studying the behaviour of our jets.


This is the last place they will look for and probably know more abt thunder than anyone here knows..but again my image of them being a professional force has gone down the drain in february

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## StormBreaker

ziaulislam said:


> This is the last place they will look for and probably know more abt thunder than anyone here knows..but again my image of them being a professional force has gone down the drain in february


Their command is stupid and no sense of professionalism


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## Maxpane

hope our pilots are ready for next adventure

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## airomerix

The Eagle said:


> Should never come to the public and even denial will create more issues. You are advised to not to make any thing public until & unless, there is a "Go" for it. In certain course of know it all; it will create more hurdles on several level for the men in uniform and our repute of being responsible. Regretfully, such info whether credible or not, will be taken down accordingly. Let's act responsibly.
> 
> Regards,



Thanks for the advice. 

However, there has been no breach of information and frankly speaking i do not care if you take it down or not. 

I hate to say this, but you're just panicking and giving out such notices for no reason. I choose my words and information carefully. 

However, if you ever find me posting F pole/E pole ranges for AMRAAMs then yes. You will have my attention.

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## StormBreaker

airomerix said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> However, there has been no breach of information and frankly speaking i do not care if you take it down or not.
> 
> I hate to say this, but you're just panicking and giving out such notices for no reason. I choose my words and information carefully.
> 
> However, if you ever find me posting F pole/E pole ranges for AMRAAMs then yes. You will have my attention.


The lesser you say, more confused they remain !!!

Better just don’t say anything...

I know these Indians, they have this anxiety disorder or what precise word can i use, lets say, lack of courage. They just like a memon hesitates to take a rupee/dollar from his pocket, similarly they are the KING OF HESITATION, can’t take big decisions especially in this field and when they implement , they run away and literally piss their pants. (majority included)

So, next time you feel like dominating the thread/discussion, just eat the thought, leave it.


----------



## SQ8

airomerix said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> However, there has been no breach of information and frankly speaking i do not care if you take it down or not.
> 
> I hate to say this, but you're just panicking and giving out such notices for no reason. I choose my words and information carefully.
> 
> However, if you ever find me posting F pole/E pole ranges for AMRAAMs then yes. You will have my attention.


The notice is general in nature. You are cautious and know opsec. Someone who doesn’t know it and has heard something in confidence through military personnel who may have breached opsec in their naivety may do so.
It HAS happened before here.

that being said, considering the amount of focus both sides put into intel on each other; there is very very rarely anything said here that isn’t already known to the other side via its own efforts.

The key folks on both sides receive daily intel reports in which a lot more incentive goes into procuring them besides online cred.

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## MastanKhan

airomerix said:


> AESA radars have a certain jamming capability which suppresses the enemy's tracking capabilities.
> For example, F-22 Raptors AESA can command an instruction to enemy radar system to 'not lock' or change targets. Systems are being designed to incorporate multiple capabilities which were formerly supplemented by external devices.



Hi,

You make me laugh---. Thanks for your post---.

I stated a similar thing awhile ago---that you can see the F22 right in front of your eyes---but your aircraft cannot lock its missile missile onto it---.



ziaulislam said:


> This is the last place they will look for and probably know more abt thunder than anyone here knows..but again my image of them being a professional force has gone down the drain in february



Hi,

1. You are wrong---this is the first place they come---.

This place is full of information being leaked by show off pakistani kids.

They have no other place to get educated information put on a platter for them---.

Do not under estimate the leakage from pakistan defense forum---sometimes it is a gusher---sometimes a trickle---but still a gold mine for them---.

What this forum does it is to CONFIRM the RAW information---and that is priceless---.

2. Now remember---it is not simple as that---they also come here to check out the information they believe is true but want to confirm it---and that is where the confusion starts---why.

Is it the WOLF EFFECT---or is it something else---. Belief or dis-belief comes from who you like and whom you dislike---. The one you like---his lies you will believe---the one you don't like---his truth you will set aside---.

So---as much as the enemy gorges up on the information from this site---they will never admit of the stomach aches & acidity runs they had gotten from this site---.

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## The Accountant

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You make me laugh---. Thanks for your post---.
> 
> I stated a similar thing awhile ago---that you can see the F22 right in front of your eyes---but your aircraft cannot lock its missile missile onto it---.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 1. You are wrong---this is the first place they come---.
> 
> This place is full of information being leaked by show off pakistani kids.
> 
> They have no other place to get educated information put on a platter for them---.
> 
> Do not under estimate the leakage from pakistan defense forum---sometimes it is a gusher---sometimes a trickle---but still a gold mine for them---.
> 
> What this forum does it is to CONFIRM the RAW information---and that is priceless---.
> 
> 2. Now remember---it is not simple as that---they also come here to check out the information they believe is true but want to confirm it---and that is where the confusion starts---why.
> 
> Is it the WOLF EFFECT---or is it something else---. Belief or dis-belief comes from who you like and whom you dislike---. The one you like---his lies you will believe---the one you don't like---his truth you will set aside---.
> 
> So---as much as the enemy gorges up on the information from this site---they will never admit of the stomach aches & acidity runs they had gotten from this site---.


I think people here sharing the information knows what they are sharing. Sometime I feel that the information is leaked here just to let the enemy know. For example a day later of 27th Feb, we were informed on this forum about acquiring PL15. We know alot about thunder block 3 but nothing concrete at all.

Now do you think we happen to acquire 100 PL15 in just 2 days and the information about purchased also got out ?

Either we bluffed or we had acquired them long ago but showed them off on this very forum when needed.

Similarly we were keep on getting the info of first flight of Thunder in August 2019 but did that actually happened? We know nothing.

So the people sharing information here are not naive specially those who are sharing here consistently and accurately.


----------



## Counter-Errorist

MastanKhan said:


> 2. Now remember---it is not simple as that---they also come here to check out the information they believe is true but want to confirm it---and that is where the confusion starts---why.
> 
> Is it the WOLF EFFECT---or is it something else---. Belief or dis-belief comes from who you like and whom you dislike---. The one you like---his lies you will believe---the one you don't like---his truth you will set aside---.
> 
> So---as much as the enemy gorges up on the information from this site---they will never admit of the stomach aches & acidity runs they had gotten from this site---.



It's not that hard to filter this out.

Generate profiles of "interesting" members. Corroborate information against known true data. Rank members based on positive corraborations. You can now monitor members who are known to provide true data. Unless such members decide to deliberately pass on false data, this system works.

With the exception of corraborations, everything else can be fully automated.

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## Mace

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You make me laugh---. Thanks for your post---.
> 
> I stated a similar thing awhile ago---that you can see the F22 right in front of your eyes---but your aircraft cannot lock its missile missile onto it---.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 1. You are wrong---this is the first place they come---.
> 
> This place is full of information being leaked by show off pakistani kids.
> 
> They have no other place to get educated information put on a platter for them---.
> 
> Do not under estimate the leakage from pakistan defense forum---sometimes it is a gusher---sometimes a trickle---but still a gold mine for them---.
> 
> What this forum does it is to CONFIRM the RAW information---and that is priceless---.
> 
> 2. Now remember---it is not simple as that---they also come here to check out the information they believe is true but want to confirm it---and that is where the confusion starts---why.
> 
> Is it the WOLF EFFECT---or is it something else---. Belief or dis-belief comes from who you like and whom you dislike---. The one you like---his lies you will believe---the one you don't like---his truth you will set aside---.
> 
> So---as much as the enemy gorges up on the information from this site---they will never admit of the stomach aches & acidity runs they had gotten from this site---.



Not completely sure about PDF being a credible source for other agencies to keep an eye on.

For instance, narratives of 3 very senior members @Oscar , @Windjammer & @airomerix of 27 feb day event don’t even come close to being same despite each claiming credible sources for information.

If anything they may deliberately being fed with unreliable or plain false info to create confusion.

Just an observation. Not trolling.

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## Shabi1

Mace said:


> Not completely sure about PDF being a credible source for other agencies to keep an eye on.
> 
> For instance, narratives of 3 very senior members @Oscar , @Windjammer & @airomerix of 27 feb day event don’t even come close to being same despite each claiming credible sources for information.
> 
> If anything they may deliberately being fed with unreliable or plain false info to create confusion.
> 
> Just an observation. Not trolling.


I agree with you on the deliberate confusion part. PAF doesnt need to prove which side had the superiority on that day. My own opinion is PAF wants to keep the exact operational details of the event under wraps as PAF still needs every edge it can get against a larger opponent, the situation has not changed and with the inventories remaining same those weaknesses of InAF could be needed to be exploited again.
Adding to the confusion is that CCS sqd from where those pilots came from flies both F-16s and JF-17s.

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## The Accountant

Mace said:


> Not completely sure about PDF being a credible source for other agencies to keep an eye on.
> 
> For instance, narratives of 3 very senior members @Oscar , @Windjammer & @airomerix of 27 feb day event don’t even come close to being same despite each claiming credible sources for information.
> 
> If anything they may deliberately being fed with unreliable or plain false info to create confusion.
> 
> Just an observation. Not trolling.


That was fog of war. The actual account was not known even till few days when we actually had time to link the dots.


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## Pakistani Fighter

StormBreaker said:


> Both sides are hot, If we recall 25 and 26 feb, today we are at exact similar situation, both AirFs on high alert. CAPs and all.
> 
> May Allah Always Give success to our Armed forces and make the impossible missions/goals possible for them with 0 collateral damage and protection of Civils.
> 
> Ameen
> 
> Pray for your country and Armed forces
> 
> Let the Gangus come, We are not afraid to Fight !!!


But False Flag had happened at that time. Not now. Also CAPs are not that intense like it used to be on those days


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## TheTallGuy

Counter-Errorist said:


> It's not that hard to filter this out.
> 
> Generate profiles of "interesting" members. Corroborate information against known true data. Rank members based on positive corraborations. You can now monitor members who are known to provide true data. Unless such members decide to deliberately pass on false data, this system works.
> 
> With the exception of corraborations, everything else can be fully automated.



That is why when baloon goes up..i want the whole of Pakistan Internet/mobile phone to be shutdown...yes it will be inconvenient but we save our self from Cyber Domain Warfare and all those have problem of taking picture and posting on facebook or forum.

Its for our own Good!

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## Thorough Pro

So you are one of them who come here digging for info or validating what info you already have?






Mace said:


> Not completely sure about PDF being a credible source for other agencies to keep an eye on.
> 
> For instance, narratives of 3 very senior members @Oscar , @Windjammer & @airomerix of 27 feb day event don’t even come close to being same despite each claiming credible sources for information.
> 
> If anything they may deliberately being fed with unreliable or plain false info to create confusion.
> 
> Just an observation. Not trolling.


----------



## BATMAN

airomerix said:


> It's no secret that quite a number of jets were locked by each other during swift retort.
> 
> Fighters were constantly turning cold and hot to break these radar locks. Two JF-17s equipped with AESA and SD-10s were engaging and jamming IAF ground based radars. 4 F-16s had a radar lock on 7 to 9 IAF jets (all 4 mig 21s, 2 x su-30's and 2 other jets, likely mirage 2000s)



In situation like that PAF pilots had to seek permission to shoot from sq. ldr. Rana who was waiting for permission from his boss and his boss was waiting for permission from......!
No doubt India have guardian angles, some where in the permission to shoot chain, which can be more advantageous to India than having technical info. on jF-17 radars.
There shall be a probe, why and who withheld the permission to shoot Indian jets... and culprits shall be brought to public and let the public decide, what to do.
If i was a pilot, i will give a dam to the last moment instruction of guiding my missile to woods instead of ammunition dump.

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## The Accountant

BATMAN said:


> In situation like that PAF pilots had to seek permission to shoot from sq. ldr. Rana who was waiting for permission from his boss and his boss was waiting for permission from......!
> No doubt India have guardian angles, some where in the permission to shoot chain, which can be more advantageous to India than having technical info. on jF-17 radars.
> There shall be a probe, why and who withheld the permission to shoot Indian jets... and culprits shall be brought to public.


Bro that must be the case of shooting other then in case of rules of engagement and other than in time of wars. In peace time scenario permission is not required of rules of engagement is applicable. Rules of engagement that I know of are :

Enemy is in our territory.
Shooting down the enemy will result in falling down the wreckage in our territory.
It is a hostile aircraft.

On 27th Feb we do had lot of targets in our range thanks to 100 kms plus range of our BVR but the aircraft were flying within enemy territory.


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## kursed

BATMAN said:


> If i was a pilot, i will give a dam to the last moment instruction of guiding my missile to woods instead of ammunition dump.


There's, hence a difference, between a 'professional' soldier and a ragtag militia. =)

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## BATMAN

kursed said:


> There's, hence a difference, between a 'professional' soldier and a ragtag militia. =)



Professional soldier will take his mission and carry it out according to the plan.
He shall be mature enough to understand that there are traitors in parliament, who will protect the strategic ally of Iran, at all costs. Such covert traitors, exercise their authority at moments that matters.

As well if pilot who is at mercy of Indian ground defense, decide not to divert his missile at last moment, doesn't make him rag tag. Actually he shall be suspicious of such last moment orders, when he already knows the mission name is operation retort, in reply to Indian attack on Pakistani school.

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## StormBreaker

BATMAN said:


> Professional soldier will take his mission and carry it out according to the plan.
> He shall be mature enough to understand that there are traitors in parliament, who will protect the strategic ally of Iran, at all costs. Such covert traitors, exercise their authority at moments that matters.
> 
> As well if pilot who is at mercy of Indian ground defense, decide not to divert his missile at last moment, doesn't make him rag tag. Actually he shall be suspicious of such last moment orders, when he already knows the mission name is operation retort, in reply to Indian attack on Pakistani school.


I respect with what you are saying.
You have a valid point,
BUT,
There is a reason that their are ranks in different organizations and the sole purposes is that the senior rank can control the juniors and command them, that is what organized the force and keeps its integrity and is the spine of a strong force.

Even though if an order is passed in such situation at last moment from a senior officer and the senior officer is secretly compromised, disagreeing to the order means disagreeing to that specific rank and post and it leaves a bad mark,
Enough to be considered an offence and punishable.

Sometimes, there are reasons, seniors know more than those who are doing the actual job, so no matter if for the time being something feels stupid or traitorous to the juniors, time will prove it right


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## kursed

BATMAN said:


> Professional soldier will take his mission and carry it out according to the plan.
> He shall be mature enough to understand that there are traitors in parliament, who will protect the strategic ally of Iran, at all costs. Such covert traitors, exercise their authority at moments that matters.
> 
> As well if pilot who is at mercy of Indian ground defense, decide not to divert his missile at last moment, doesn't make him rag tag. Actually he shall be suspicious of such last moment orders, when he already knows the mission name is operation retort, in reply to Indian attack on Pakistani school.


Yeh, that's not how a real life air force operates. This is not Top Gun, the movie. You're given a mission, with exact parameters in mind, with an exact political goal to achieve, without putting rest of the state at war, that it can ill-afford. And pilots and WSOs are supposed to fulfil that mission, without wondering about the 'whys'. This is the training. 

The idea that it were 'civilians' alone that took the decision to engage targets, is also fiction. The entire top hierarchy incl Army, Naval and AF chiefs were part of all briefings - there's a reason PN had moved naval assets before this even happened, there's a reason Army was ready to respond the way it did, in post-Swift Retort scenario. It was a coordinated response by all three military-arms of Pakistan, not just the AF.

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## MastanKhan

BATMAN said:


> In situation like that PAF pilots had to seek permission to shoot from sq. ldr. Rana who was waiting for permission from his boss and his boss was waiting for permission from......!
> There shall be a probe, why and who withheld the permission to shoot Indian jets... and culprits shall be brought to public and let the public decide, what to do.
> If i was a pilot, i will give a dam to the last moment instruction of guiding my missile to woods instead of ammunition dump.



Hi,

That is why I have stated---the deaths of '300' should have been played right to the hilt of the sword---.

This scenario should never have arisen---. The flight command in the air should have taken charge---. That was the grand moment of indecision---incompetence and cowardice---.

All this should have been planned ahead of time.

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## PakFactor

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That is why I have stated---the deaths of '300' should have been played right to the hilt of the sword---.
> 
> This scenario should never have arisen---. The flight command in the air should have taken charge---. That was the grand moment of indecision---incompetence and cowardice---.
> 
> All this should have been planned ahead of time.



I have to agree with you, we should have taken the Indian narrative go with it and retaliated with full force claiming innocent children were massacred. Once the damage was done to these Hindus then later after investigation come out with true story as nothing happened.

Do what the Israeli and US and using the children story built some sympathy right away.

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## MastanKhan

PakFactor said:


> I have to agree with you, we should have taken the Indian narrative go with it and retaliated with full force claiming innocent children were massacred. Once the damage was done to these Hindus then later after investigation come out with true story as nothing happened.
> 
> Do what the Israeli and US and using the children story built some sympathy right away.



Hi,

It was so frigging simple to ride the indian version and blow them to smithereens---.

Pakistani public would have been easily riled up as well and massive amount of support and spirit built up---.

But as it shows---cowardice starts from the top and flows downward---.

Not all generals are cowards and not all of them are brave---be it the air force navy or the army---.

World over---public was saying that it was an " act of war " the crossing of border by the indian air force---and pakistani generals were saying " no it was not---nothing happened---".
That moment showed the cowardice of the generals in charge---.

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## BATMAN

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That is why I have stated---the deaths of '300' should have been played right to the hilt of the sword---.
> 
> This scenario should never have arisen---. The flight command in the air should have taken charge---. That was the grand moment of indecision---incompetence and cowardice---.
> 
> All this should have been planned ahead of time.



That was God given opportunity to get rid of Indian military for good and implement peace in region for good.
If Pakistan had pressed on for just one full day, situation of world geopolitics would be totally different.
One scenario, US would be packing from Afghanistan by now already.
Another scenario, Iran would have no more strategic ally to mate with, means even middle east would be peaceful. etc.

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## StormBreaker

BATMAN said:


> That was God given opportunity to get rid of Indian military for good and implement peace in region for good.
> If Pakistan had pressed on for just one full day, situation of world geopolitics would be totally different.
> One scenario, US would be packing from Afghanistan by now already.
> Another scenario, Iran would have no more strategic ally to mate with, means even middle east would be peaceful. etc.


You see, the last time you guys, including @MastanKhan , criticized PAF on this very same thread, next day they shot down 2 indian jets.
I say, @Haris Ali2140 @Mangus Ortus Novem @Starlord @seven0seven Let’s all start criticizing PAF on this magical thread, maybe tommorow morning we will see more IAF jets burning

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## YeBeWarned

StormBreaker said:


> You see, the last time you guys, including @MastanKhan , criticized PAF on this very same thread, next day they shot down 2 indian jets.
> I say, @Haris Ali2140 @Mangus Ortus Novem @Starlord @seven0seven Let’s all start criticizing PAF on this magical thread, maybe tommorow morning we will see more IAF jets burning



Our initial response was emotional driven, you can expect such from us because we are not top Military strategists or someone like Mastan Khan who is top Military Adviser in Pentagon who used to threat Kiyani and Pasha .. Rest of the Non Pakistani members and their Opinion don't matter , now matter how much Pakistaniyat they show here, they will remain outsiders and dividers .

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## The Accountant

@mods this thread needs cleaning

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## aliyusuf

seven0seven said:


> put @BATMAN into your ignore list bro, he is just troll and anti govt/IK opinions


Well bro, as long as he is not anti-Pakistan ... he is OK in my book. We should respect difference in opinion and political affiliations.

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## Ultima Thule

aliyusuf said:


> Well bro, as long as he is not anti-Pakistan ... he is OK in my book. We should respect difference in opinion and political affiliations.


But he blames IK govt baselessly, that IK govt is always responsible our all problems since our Independence

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## StormBreaker

aliyusuf said:


> Well bro, as long as he is not anti-Pakistan ... he is OK in my book. We should respect difference in opinion and political affiliations.





seven0seven said:


> But he blames IK govt baselessly, that IK govt is always responsible our all problems since our Independence



Bro seven, it is ok to be angry, but, let us not forget, he is in the end a Pakistani and among us !!!

Ignoring him means belittling him and making him feel un important. 

But that is bad as ethics are concerned !!!

Might be that he was frustrated at something when he replied me with garbage but it’s ok !!!

Some people need some time alone to deep read their minds, understand what they are, who they are, their purpose and correct their mistakes. He needs such a self therapy !!!

I despise iran due to the current government and how cleverly they are playing dual faced. And what’s more shittier is that they have a hijacked a particular group of people in Pakistan by playing the religion card, thus making our state fragile and prone to sectarian problems. I will never respect them for these MISTAKES they have made.

As for my support for Arabs, that’s purely out of my belief in Ummah which is practically non existent right now. They are right and they are VERY wrong at the same time. But these wrongs of Arabs, if not corrected will cost their future very badly. Watching fellow brothers committing stupid politics while Allah has blessed them with vast amount of wealth and oil, makes me sad for them and pity when politics is done wrongly. I wouldn’t even blame arabs for that but the fact that since their dominance in oil industry, they played short sightedly and fall into the trap set by USA. Now even if they want to redeem but they can’t coz they have to act for US else they will see a very bad economic downfall, loss of assets and all the hype since some decades will vanish to knowwhere.

No one is good or bad in my books, it is their unique actions that i judge independently be it a politician, a party, journalist or a country even China and Turkey and USA.

Every one has a good and a bad but IRAN currently in my books is JUST BAD and BAD

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## StormBreaker

seven0seven said:


> This is not criticism but baseless blames, its IK First time, and people of Pakistan gets bored between the musical chairs of PPP/PLM-N since Zia-Ul- Haque


Bhai, i see 1000s of people blaming IK everyday but i just internally call them out “JAHILS” and move one. It’s been a year for IK, having no background of economics, politics or just the fact that THEY DONT want to because they are worshippers of some goons, want tabdeeli in a plate. While trust me , even if IK gets a second term, even then we wouldn’t see the liquidity in everything people were used to when country was being run on wild loans, everything was just for MUFT and easy.

Just ignore all of these people.

This is what separates an educated with a jahil/parha likha jahil

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## Ultima Thule

StormBreaker said:


> Bhai, i see 1000s of people blaming IK everyday but i just internally call them out “JAHILS” and move one. It’s been a year for IK, having no background of economics, politics or just the fact that THEY DONT want to because they are worshippers of some goons, want tabdeeli in a plate. While trust me , even if IK gets a second term, even then we wouldn’t see the liquidity in everything people were used to when country was being run on wild loans, everything was just for MUFT and easy.
> 
> Just ignore all of these people.
> 
> This is what separates an educated with a jahil/parha likha jahil


Oh bhai most weak point of IK govt is to bring previous goons of PPP/PML-N and he promises that he bring new/fresh/sincere/honest politicians to his Party

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## StormBreaker

seven0seven said:


> Oh bhai most weak point of IK govt is to bring previous goons of PPP/PML-N and he promises that he bring new/fresh/sincere/honest politicians to his Party


Bureaucracy buddy, bureaucracy!!!

Nothing is more corrupt than them

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## Rafi

It is sad that this batman guy is a bigot and allowed to get away with. Can the mods ban the guy, please.

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## PakSword

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1210527856163467264
@Mangus Ortus Novem @Areesh @aliyusuf @StormBreaker @Rafi @seven0seven @BATMAN

@Starlord

@Syed Hammad Ahmed

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## Ultima Thule

StormBreaker said:


> Bureaucracy buddy, bureaucracy!!!
> 
> Nothing is more corrupt than them


But in past why he promises to bring fresh/honest/new politicians to his party and now he forget this promises, any reasons

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## YeBeWarned

PakSword said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1210527856163467264
> @Mangus Ortus Novem @Areesh @aliyusuf @StormBreaker @Rafi @seven0seven @BATMAN
> 
> @Starlord
> 
> @Syed Hammad Ahmed



every time someone say Tea is fantastic, it burn 1.3 billion Bharti Arses  this will go down in history

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## aliyusuf

PakSword said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1210527856163467264
> @Mangus Ortus Novem @Areesh @aliyusuf @StormBreaker @Rafi @seven0seven @BATMAN
> 
> @Starlord
> 
> @Syed Hammad Ahmed


I think the tweet says it all.

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## Rafi

PakSword said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1210527856163467264
> @Mangus Ortus Novem @Areesh @aliyusuf @StormBreaker @Rafi @seven0seven @BATMAN
> 
> @Starlord
> 
> @Syed Hammad Ahmed



LoL brilliant

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## SQ8

Mace said:


> Not completely sure about PDF being a credible source for other agencies to keep an eye on.
> 
> For instance, narratives of 3 very senior members @Oscar , @Windjammer & @airomerix of 27 feb day event don’t even come close to being same despite each claiming credible sources for information.
> 
> If anything they may *deliberately* being fed with unreliable or plain false info to create confusion.
> 
> Just an observation. Not trolling.


Always the bold.
Although not sure if I ever gave a “narrative”

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## Falcon26

Moderators please delete the above two sexist comments. @waz @The Eagle

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## Trailer23

Is Sqn Ldr. Hasan Siddiqui with No. 9 (Griffins) or with No. 11 (Arrows).

The man has worn so many Sqn Patches...?

@Hodor @airomerix @Windjammer @HawkEye27


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## The Eagle

airomerix said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> However, there has been no breach of information and frankly speaking i do not care if you take it down or not.
> 
> I hate to say this, but you're just panicking and giving out such notices for no reason. I choose my words and information carefully.
> 
> However, if you ever find me posting F pole/E pole ranges for AMRAAMs then yes. You will have my attention.



Let's not act like a minor and most of us respects your opinion. The words like I don't care etc wouldn't do any good for you at all but that is your choice or feel like that so I have no interest to go there. Secondly, instead of judging me panicking or wrongly feeling that ever seeking your attention; how about to understand that there is a lot difference between "in my opinion" as compare to sharing such information like "I am the authority". So instead of worrying about that I need your attention at all; why not to do the right thing. Your posts are good and qualitative but on other hand, we shall not act like being authoritarian. 

Regards,

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## airomerix

The Eagle said:


> Let's not act like a minor and most of us respects your opinion. The words like I don't care etc wouldn't do any good for you at all but that is your choice or feel like that so I have no interest to go there. Secondly, instead of judging me panicking or wrongly feeling that ever seeking your attention; how about to understand that there is a lot difference between "in my opinion" as compare to sharing such information like "I am the authority". So instead of worrying about that I need your attention at all; why not to do the right thing. Your posts are good and qualitative but on other hand, we shall not act like being authoritarian.
> 
> Regards,




The debate does not pertain to the quality of the information. Rather the sensitivity. 

I expect you to share (maybe in DMs) what made you think I have violated OPSEC? I'm assuming you have valid grounds to reason that I have disclosed sensitive information.

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## araz

seven0seven said:


> you have no solid source, most PDF members don't agree on you


What is the matter with you. All I see you do is argue and denegrate other posters. If it isn't this one it is/that. I am really getting tired of your antics abusive behaviour and name calling . Please stop this behaviour and start acting your age. 
A mentioned many times before if you dont agree with a post agree to disagree and move on. I have ignored a few posts of yours simply because I hoped you would settle down and mellow. But if you are going to behave like an imbecile I will start picking up the stick and marking your posts with the red currency and ask the mods to let you have a break. Ths choice is yours!
Regards



baqai said:


> @TheTallGuy has said multiple times to let it go but it seems to me that you want to brush it against his face, he had theory and he wrote his assumptions, official version of the conflict which came out is against those assumptions, he was proven wrong, end of story, why are you giving him a hard time?
> 
> these forums are for discussion and to share views, if you find his views absurd than just ignore? chill out dude


I Still think contrary to PAF open claim more fighters went down. There is at least one Mig 21 that went down in Badgam. So take it or leave it. We dont have to agree on everything but we need to respect each other.
A

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## loanranger

Summary: PAF and ISPR we beg for HD high res videos of PAF. 
With mass production of JF-17s we will surely need to inspire some fresh blood.

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## -blitzkrieg-

Viny said:


> PAF voilated Indian Air Space, but if they took down Indian Jet and we are in war ...



right but modi bogged down..


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## NA71

27/2/19 PAF kill marking appears :

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## F86 Saber

Had a detailed discussion with someone who was very close to the action that day and i have gathered a few things most of which i cannot share because i do not feel confident that i will not be revealing anything damaging for OPSEC.

One thing i can say though, and this is purely gossip, is that there is a lot more to the 2nd pilot theory then meets the eye. Debris of the SU-30 surely fell on the Indian side however both pilots ejected in Pakistani territory. One of them is thought to have died in the hospital and his body was handed back to India silently through back channel diplomacy. The 2nd pilot, thought to be an Israeli, was caught alive and he is either still with us or returned because of intervention from US (with a stern warning of course). 

This information is a closely guarded secret even in the armed forces, however there was significant intel about the presence of Isreali's in India around the period of this incident.

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## loanranger

F86 Saber said:


> The 2nd pilot, thought to be an Israeli, was caught alive and he is either still with us or returned because of intervention from US (with a stern warning of course).


I strongly believe in the second pilot presence in Pakistan at some point.Whether he was sent back or is still retained is a mystery. Likely he was sent back. Isrealis will be definitely itching to get back to us. However, it baffles me what he was doing in that SU30 that morning.
The perfect way to guard secrets is to make them open secrets which we did. Zafir Hilali and a few well connected retired army men all mentioned I pilot on media.


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## airomerix

There was no Israeli pilot. I can't imagine who came up with this bizarre theory. 

IAF has a bad reputation amongst western airforce and russians alike. They're not stupid to send in their pilot in a combat mission that too with Indian AirForce.

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## graphican

airomerix said:


> There was no Israeli pilot. I can't imagine who came up with this bizarre theory.
> 
> IAF has a bad reputation amongst western airforce and russians alike. They're not stupid to send in their pilot in a combat mission that too with Indian AirForce.



Israeli pilot was announced by Zafar Hillali, who is quite senior and sane. I doubt a person like him cooked the story or shared a rumour.
https://i.postimg.cc/9Q0dJpMB/aass.jpg


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## airomerix

graphican said:


> Israeli pilot was announced by Zafar Hillali, who is quite senior and sane. I doubt a person like him cooked the story or shared a rumour.
> https://i.postimg.cc/9Q0dJpMB/aass.jpg


Its rubbish.


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## F86 Saber

airomerix said:


> Its rubbish.



Seeing that you have connections in the airforce it is surprising for me you havn't heard this rumor from within. I am not saying that the 2nd pilot was definitely Israeli, but there certainly was a second pilot in our custody. So if he was just another Indian pilot, why hide him?

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## Windjammer

Usually, i tend to stay away from these conspiracies theories but then the DG ISPR is on record for reporting the death of the second pilot.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143580999609147395

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## F86 Saber

Windjammer said:


> Usually, i tend to stay away from these conspiracies theories but then the DG ISPR is on record for reporting the death of the second pilot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143580999609147395



Theory is that he actually tells the truth initially, his retraction later on however was a coverup for reasons unknown.

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## Windjammer

F86 Saber said:


> Theory is that he actually tells the truth initially, his retraction later on however was a coverup for reasons unknown.


He repeated and revealed the same in another program more recently.


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## loanranger

Windjammer said:


> Usually, i tend to stay away from these conspiracies theories but then the DG ISPR is on record for reporting the death of the second pilot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143580999609147395


Exactly. Too many people have mentioned it to be false.


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## airomerix

F86 Saber said:


> Seeing that you have connections in the airforce it is surprising for me you havn't heard this rumor from within. I am not saying that the 2nd pilot was definitely Israeli, but there certainly was a second pilot in our custody. So if he was just another Indian pilot, why hide him?



There are greater forces at work here. Whatever happened to the 2nd pilot remains a mystery. 

But one thing is certain, there was or is no Israeli pilot. The entire idea is stupid. Why would an Israeli pilot be sitting in ADA hut waiting to scramble from an IAF base? Pilot exchanges doesn't take place like that.

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## Armchair

I think what happened was the pilot was dead \ died. His body was returned through other channels.


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## Haris Ali2140

airomerix said:


> There are greater forces at work here. Whatever happened to the 2nd pilot remains a mystery.
> 
> But one thing is certain, there was or is no Israeli pilot. The entire idea is stupid. Why would an Israeli pilot be sitting in ADA hut waiting to scramble from an IAF base? Pilot exchanges doesn't take place like that.


Looks like that you are not aware of the jewophobia running through the country.

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## airomerix

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Looks like that you are not aware of the jewophobia running through the country.



I'm fully aware and I find it an insult to our intellect and existence as humans. We as a nation fail ourself at every step. Only if we could learn a thing or two from jews, we wouldn't be needing these block 72s. We would make our own. Half of our population is a drag on the state due to this jewophobia and similar mental conditions i would say. But this is a discussion for another time.

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## Windjammer

One theory circulating was that when the SU-30 was hit, one of the crew ejected and landed in Pakistan while the other crew either ejected over IOK or went down with his aircraft.
If you recall, initially the Indian Press Information Bureau spokesperson was claiming that THE IAF pilot ejected over Indian territory but his chute drifted into the Pakistani side.

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## Bratva

The theory of SU-30 being hit close to LOC enough that a pilot can drift into Pakistan seems absurd? Why Because The PAF Patch of F-16 HUD indicated Amraam was fired at SU-30 when it was 70-75 KM away. As per Indians it was fired at a max range i.e 90-100 KM IIRC, 39.4 nautical miles was written on the patch. That SU-30 was deep inside the Indian airspace when Hassan Siddiqi decided to engage that SU-30 to keep it away from strike package.

One should keep all of these facts in mind before theorizing that SU-30 was shot down near LOC and a pilot can drift into Pakistan just like that.

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## Pak-Canuck

Opened another thread on this, but thought this part of the article is pretty relevant here:

https://hushkit.net/2019/07/19/flyi...erview-with-pakistan-air-force-fighter-pilot/

"The IAF and PAF account of the 2019 vary, what actually happened? What are popular misunderstandings of it? 
“We shot a MiG-21 on our side and a Su-30 on their side (which we didn’t claim initially because we already had the MiG-21 pilot in custody and that was enough of a message that we had the superiority). Plus we didn’t want to rub it in their face that we had shot two jets which in turn would escalate the problem. Needless to say, we have the wreckage of MiG-21 with all four missiles intact (hence no shooting of our jets took place) plus our electronic warfare (EW) platforms have all the radio transmissions of the IAF — and it’s a treat to listen to those confused and devastated calls of IAF pilots and controller which the shooting was taking place (IAF do not operate on secure radios so all their RT chatter is easily picked by EW platforms. Plus a MiG-21 in Block zero-one i.e below 20,000 with AA-12 Adder can only dream of getting a missile off rail against targets beyond 20NM (plus the Kopyo radar doesn’t support AA-12 launches beyond 20NM and that too on head-on aspects). Plus the evidence the Indians showed was a AMRAAM piece on their side claiming it was from a F-16 they shot. My simple question: if they found a piece of AMRAAM on their side but no jet attached to it then where did the wreckage go? Duhhh. And for a MiG to launch a missile against an F-16 and get it to A-pole and in the meantime get shot by another jet speaks poorly of the MiG-21’s pilot’s priorities as a fighter pilot. Nobody in their right frame of mind would enter the kill zone being spiked from all side and still continue hot without listening to any controller or formation member. In the intense comm jam environment with non secure radio the poor MiG-21 pilot didn’t receive any threat warnings given by his controller and I’m sure he didn’t have a moving map display telling him he had crossed the border and the comms were being jammed.”

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## YeBeWarned

Bratva said:


> The theory of SU-30 being hit close to LOC enough that a pilot can drift into Pakistan seems absurd? Why Because The PAF Patch of F-16 HUD indicated Amraam was fired at SU-30 when it was 70-75 KM away. As per Indians it was fired at a max range i.e 90-100 KM IIRC, 39.4 nautical miles was written on the patch. That SU-30 was deep inside the Indian airspace when Hassan Siddiqi decided to engage that SU-30 to keep it away from strike package.
> 
> One should keep all of these facts in mind before theorizing that SU-30 was shot down near LOC and a pilot can drift into Pakistan just like that.



The question might sound stupid but , do you think heavy wind can play a role in drifting the Parachute into our territory ? we do know from the DGISPR press conference on 26th Feb that he can not take journalist to Alleged IAF strike place due to bad weather, that was 26th night, so it is quite possible that if weather remain bad on early 27th when the engagement took place .
Do you think this scenario is possible that a SU-30 is moving towards LOC, when our F-16 hit him and as it was cruising towards our borders and missile hit it from a front angle it is possible that his chute carry him few KM inside Pakistani border ? now what happen to 2nd pilot I don't want to speculate .

@Windjammer @airomerix @araz my advance apologies if the question sounds dumb

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## Bratva

Starlord said:


> The question might sound stupid but , do you think heavy wind can play a role in drifting the Parachute into our territory ? we do know from the DGISPR press conference on 26th Feb that he can not take journalist to Alleged IAF strike place due to bad weather, that was 26th night, so it is quite possible that if weather remain bad on early 27th when the engagement took place .
> Do you think this scenario is possible that a SU-30 is moving towards LOC, when our F-16 hit him and as it was cruising towards our borders and missile hit it from a front angle it is possible that his chute carry him few KM inside Pakistani border ? now what happen to 2nd pilot I don't want to speculate .
> 
> @Windjammer @airomerix @araz my advance apologies if the question sounds dumb



If that were the case, Abhinandan would have drifted far away from the location where his plane was shot down no ?

If bad weather was at play and high winds were there the morning of 27 FEB, REK wouldn't had been launched with high degree of confidence. After-all it was not like H-4 that can be guided to it's target. It was a fully autonomous weapon that could have killed large number of soldiers if it had actually hit the Battalion HQ or hit the civilian population due to high winds. 

So Bad weather and high winds can be ruled out on the morning of 27 Feb. Look at all those leaked videos of 27 feb. Sky was clear and it was sunny when those engagements took place.



Windjammer said:


> Usually, i tend to stay away from these conspiracies theories but then the DG ISPR is on record for reporting the death of the second pilot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143580999609147395



Kidly post his video of April conference as well where he took back the claims of 2nd Pilot.

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## YeBeWarned

Bratva said:


> If that were the case, Abhinandan would have drifted far away from the location where his plane was shot down no ?



Abhinandun asked to locals when landed if he was in India, to be precise words from a eye Witness , he asked " Which state of India I am in ? .. So when Abhi got out he is at least trying to navigate his chute towards his own country, I am sure he does know where his plane was hit and to where he should go to avoid capture .

rest I agree with you, videos indeed shows clear sky and if winds were to taken into account , than Operation SR might also be effected .


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## Windjammer

Bratva said:


> The theory of SU-30 being hit close to LOC enough that a pilot can drift into Pakistan seems absurd? Why Because The PAF Patch of F-16 HUD indicated Amraam was fired at SU-30 when it was 70-75 KM away. As per Indians it was fired at a max range i.e 90-100 KM IIRC, 39.4 nautical miles was written on the patch. That SU-30 was deep inside the Indian airspace when Hassan Siddiqi decided to engage that SU-30 to keep it away from strike package.
> 
> One should keep all of these facts in mind before theorizing that SU-30 was shot down near LOC and a pilot can drift into Pakistan just like that.


All said and done, one should also keep in mind that when the shooter F-16 launched it's AMRAAM, it wasn't exactly flying on the edge of the LOC....but rather deep inside Pakistan.
In any case, the claim of Indian pilot drifting into Pakistani territory was made by none other than the Indian spokesperson and other theories were put up by various social media accounts....perhaps one needs to address them with fact and figures.



Bratva said:


> Kidly post his video of April conference as well where he took back the claims of 2nd Pilot.


The only other video i have seen is where he explains the mix up of his statement where he claimed as one pilot apprehended and two more in the area.....however elsewhere he said that the injured pilot has died.


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## Talon

Starlord said:


> The question might sound stupid but , do you think heavy wind can play a role in drifting the Parachute into our territory ? we do know from the DGISPR press conference on 26th Feb that he can not take journalist to Alleged IAF strike place due to bad weather, that was 26th night, so it is quite possible that if weather remain bad on early 27th when the engagement took place .
> Do you think this scenario is possible that a SU-30 is moving towards LOC, when our F-16 hit him and as it was cruising towards our borders and missile hit it from a front angle it is possible that his chute carry him few KM inside Pakistani border ? now what happen to 2nd pilot I don't want to speculate .
> 
> @Windjammer @airomerix @araz my advance apologies if the question sounds dumb


As soon as a lock is maintained on you,your jet's computer will start to warn you and the moment the missile is released, jet's computer will start screaming so the Su30 pilots weren't blind of the fact that they have been fired upon and went into defensive mode ASAP so chances of getting hit by the AMRAAM from nose side is not possible and its also against the Anti BVR tactics.In ideal situation the missile would have hit from left side of the Su30 or maybe and most probably from its backside so that's that.Also as per witness reports the Su30 was running for its life in heading of friendly airspace.



StormBreaker said:


> View attachment 596786


Shiet....

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## PakFactor

Hodor said:


> As soon as a lock is maintained on you,your jet's computer will start to warn you and the moment the missile is released, jet's computer will start screaming so the Su30 pilots weren't blind of the fact that they have been fired upon and went into defensive mode ASAP so chances of getting hit by the AMRAAM from nose side is not possible and its also against the Anti BVR tactics.In ideal situation the missile would have hit from left side of the Su30 or maybe and most probably from its backside so that's that.Also as per witness reports the Su30 was running for its life in heading of friendly airspace.
> 
> 
> Shiet....



Since I'm learning as well, I do have a question and this might sound stupid so forgive me in advance.

An AAM locks onto a enemy fighter -- how does the system identify its a missile the AAM could have internal radar / guidance just like a regular fighter?


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## StormBreaker

Hodor said:


> *Also as per witness reports the Su30 was running for its life in heading of friendly airspace.*



Isse 1 Farman yaad aata hai @Hodor @Mangus Ortus Novem @seven0seven 

*Arz kia hai :

“1 veman humne Pakistan ki taraf jatay hoe dekhe aur 5 min baad wo LOC se waapis aata dikhai dia bohat tez aur phir aag lag gai aur parachute nazr aaya to pata laga ke crash hogya hai “







Bohat shukria time dene ka*

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## YeBeWarned

Hodor said:


> As soon as a lock is maintained on you,your jet's computer will start to warn you and the moment the missile is released, jet's computer will start screaming so the Su30 pilots weren't blind of the fact that they have been fired upon and went into defensive mode ASAP so chances of getting hit by the AMRAAM from nose side is not possible and its also against the Anti BVR tactics.In ideal situation the missile would have hit from left side of the Su30 or maybe and most probably from its backside so that's that.Also as per witness reports the Su30 was running for its life in heading of friendly airspace.



Thank you for explaining 



StormBreaker said:


> Isse 1 Farman yaad aata hai @Hodor @Mangus Ortus Novem @seven0seven
> 
> *Arz kia hai :
> 
> “1 veman humne Pakistan ki taraf jatay hoe dekhe aur 5 min baad wo LOC se waapis aata dikhai dia bohat tez aur phir aag lag gai aur parachute nazr aaya to pata laga ke crash hogya hai “
> 
> View attachment 596871
> 
> 
> Bohat shukria time dene ka*



bhai tu dosra Pilot gaya kahan ? Mujhe tu lagta hai J&K mai hi settle ho gaya ho ga, Islam qabool ker ke , Kisi achi Kashmiri larki se shadi ker li ho gi ab tak

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## StormBreaker

Starlord said:


> Thank you for explaining
> 
> 
> 
> bhai tu dosra Pilot gaya kahan ? Mujhe tu lagta hai J&K mai hi settle ho gaya ho ga, Islam qabool ker ke , Kisi achi Kashmiri larki se shadi ker li ho gi ab tak


I have my suspicions on the total number of pilots.

Including abhinandan, 3 were reported initially, then 2 in which one was claimed dead. Then out of nowhere, 2nd one vanished from the story thanks to the Fabtastic Tea drinker trending on news.

So here are my thoughts, PAF knew they shot MKI, MKI hosts a total of 2 pilots.

PAF thought, since we shot mki, 2 victims from that excluding abhi from mig.

But MKI can be rider alone as well so they might have got some reports from local eyes that they saw 1 chute so the report changed to a total of 2 pilots.

Khair !!!

Thats in the past.

Agar 3 nai the to agle bar hi sahi .

I was going through this thread 3 days before, saw all of you talking on 26, then on 27, all were excited as hell but were tagging MK, but yar, i was expecting to see MK’s first response on 27 feb news however, wandering here & there, I couldn’t find that gem !!!

That was the turning point i wanted to see from MK, how he embraced Din-e-Thunder 

Could you assist me ?

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## Bratva

Windjammer said:


> All said and done, one should also keep in mind that when the shooter F-16 launched it's AMRAAM, it wasn't exactly flying on the edge of the LOC....but rather deep inside Pakistan.
> In any case, the claim of Indian pilot drifting into Pakistani territory was made by none other than the Indian spokesperson and other theories were put up by various social media accounts....perhaps one needs to address them with fact and figures.
> 
> 
> The only other video i have seen is where he explains the mix up of his statement where he claimed as one pilot apprehended and two more in the area.....however elsewhere he said that the injured pilot has died.



Did you miss his 29 April 2019 presser ?






Here is the video. He took back all the claims of 2nd pilot and provided a logical explanation why he made an error in reporting 2 pilots which infact was only 1 Pilot Pakistan captured.


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## Irfan Baloch

refrain from going off topic and specially commenting on fellow members that can cause offence and flame
all such posts are removed 

there is a special section to raise any issues you may have with staff or fellow members so avoid controversy in open forum and derailing threads.


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## Windjammer

Bratva said:


> Did you miss his 29 April 2019 presser ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the video. He took back all the claims of 2nd pilot and provided a logical explanation why he made an error in reporting 2 pilots which in fact was only 1 Pilot Pakistan captured.


Read my post again, i clearly stated that i have seen the conference where he explains how he got mixed up with claims of one pilot captured and some others in the area......being confused about numbers of pilots is one thing and disclosing that one has died is something else.....this was repeated by the DG ISPR in another programme as well....and when i bumped into the PAF Air chief in Doha earlier this year, he sidelined my inquisitive on the subject and instead praised my knowledge and interest in the PAF.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Windjammer said:


> ..and when i bumped into the PAF Air chief in Doha earlier this year, he sidelined my inquisitive on the subject and instead praised my knowledge and interest in the PAF.


The true "bureaucrats" take the state secrets to their graves...

PAF had 9 locks (officially)!! How many of them they really exercised????? No human souls (including _Evliya_), with _Nefs_ attached with them, would remain satisfied with only 2 at the heat of the battle....

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## F86 Saber

Bratva said:


> The theory of SU-30 being hit close to LOC enough that a pilot can drift into Pakistan seems absurd? Why Because The PAF Patch of F-16 HUD indicated Amraam was fired at SU-30 when it was 70-75 KM away. As per Indians it was fired at a max range i.e 90-100 KM IIRC, 39.4 nautical miles was written on the patch. That SU-30 was deep inside the Indian airspace when Hassan Siddiqi decided to engage that SU-30 to keep it away from strike package.
> 
> One should keep all of these facts in mind before theorizing that SU-30 was shot down near LOC and a pilot can drift into Pakistan just like that.




Both jets were engaged when they were "INSIDE" Pakistani territory, our jets that fired towards them were deep inside our own border. I do know further details which can explain further but since no official channel released this information (although i don't think it might be sensitive) i am going to refrain from posting anything else.

The 2nd Pilot theories are all gossip, however i remember senior members posting here as well that we were aware of Israeli presence in IoK before, during and after the 27/2 incident for weapon system integration. I honestly have nothing against Israel or Jews in general, however it is possible that they were in process of integrating a new weapon system on the SU-30 and since the Indian pilots did not have enough experience handling it, they sent an Israeli pilot to handle it. Do remember that the GIBS on an SU-30 is also the WSO.

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## Mace

F86 Saber said:


> Both jets were engaged when they were "INSIDE" Pakistani territory, our jets that fired towards them were deep inside our own border. I do know further details which can explain further but since no official channel released this information (although i don't think it might be sensitive) i am going to refrain from posting anything else.
> 
> The 2nd Pilot theories are all gossip, however i remember senior members posting here as well that we were aware of Israeli presence in IoK before, during and after the 27/2 incident for weapon system integration. I honestly have nothing against Israel or Jews in general, however it is possible that they were in process of integrating a new weapon system on the SU-30 and since the Indian pilots did not have enough experience handling it, they sent an Israeli pilot to handle it. Do remember that the GIBS on an SU-30 is also the WSO.



The 2nd IAF aircraft was over Pak territory and you don’t have a reliable radar image to confirm ?? Doesn’t seem plausible.


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## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> The 2nd IAF aircraft was over Pak territory and you don’t have a reliable radar image to confirm ?? Doesn’t seem plausible.


Where are the pictures of this 2nd jet, within hours villagers took a pictures of down IAF Mig-21 and post it on twitter/Facebook etc etc


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## F86 Saber

Mace said:


> The 2nd IAF aircraft was over Pak territory and you don’t have a reliable radar image to confirm ?? Doesn’t seem plausible.



I am just a noob, many of the senior members have already stated that we not only have RADAR data available, we have recordings of radio communication between different IAF platforms. Why PAF chose not to release it is due to political pressure from Russia and because of the fact that we had a live IAF Wing Commander in our custody plus footage from H weapons to show what we were capable of.


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## Destrius

What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.

Mig21 shoots down F16
Mig21 then gets shot down
Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.

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## Bilal.

Destrius said:


> What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> Mig21 shoots down F16
> Mig21 then gets shot down
> Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
> Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
> They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.



What’s with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.

F16s shoot down a Mig21 and an SU30

India claims to also shoot down F16 so as not to lose face, due to a clear evidence of Mig21 downing and expecting the same for the downed SU30.

Lucky for India, they could deny their Su30 loss.

They then keep up with their claim as they have a need to save face.

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## Destrius

Bilal. said:


> What’s with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> F16s shoot down a Mig21 and an SU30
> 
> India claims to also shoot down F16 so as not to lose face, due to a clear evidence of Mig21 dowing and expecting the same for the downed SU30.
> 
> Lucky for India, they could deny their Su30 loss.
> 
> They then keep up with their claim as they have a need to save face.


You see Imran Khan, in his New York Times opinion piece after 370 revocation, only mentioned shooting down one plane. It's obvious the claim about shooting down the Su30 was only for domestic consumption. If no f16 had been shot down, Pakistan would have initially only claimed to have shot down the mig21. It only makes sense to fake shooting down an Su30 if they thought their loss of an f16 would have been found out.

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## SIPRA

Bilal. said:


> What’s with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> F16s shoot down a Mig21 and an SU30
> 
> India claims to also shoot down F16 so as not to lose face, due to a clear evidence of Mig21 downing and expecting the same for the downed SU30.
> 
> Lucky for India, they could deny their Su30 loss.
> 
> They then keep up with their claim as they have a need to save face.

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## Bilal.

Destrius said:


> You see Imran Khan, in his New York Times opinion piece after 370 revocation, only mentioned shooting down one plane. It's obvious the claim about shooting down the Su30 was only for domestic consumption. If no f16 had been shot down, Pakistan would have initially only claimed to have shot down the mig21. It only makes sense to fake shooting down an Su30 if they thought their loss of an f16 would have been found out.





Destrius said:


> You see Imran Khan, in his New York Times opinion piece after 370 revocation, only mentioned shooting down one plane. It's obvious the claim about shooting down the Su30 was only for domestic consumption. If no f16 had been shot down, Pakistan would have initially only claimed to have shot down the mig21. It only makes sense to fake shooting down an Su30 if they thought their loss of an f16 would have been found out.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

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## airomerix

Destrius said:


> What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> Mig21 shoots down F16
> Mig21 then gets shot down
> Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
> Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
> They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.



I want to smoke what you're smoking.

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## PakSword

Destrius said:


> What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> Mig21 shoots down F16
> Mig21 then gets shot down
> Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
> Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
> They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.


You are invited to attend a ceremony of F-16 downing being held on 27th Feb 2020 on PDF.. 

Chief host is @Areesh

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## Haris Ali2140

airomerix said:


> I want to smoke what you're smoking.


No buddy you really don't want that.


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## DrWatson775

Hodor said:


> As soon as a lock is maintained on you,your jet's computer will start to warn you and the moment the missile is released, jet's computer will start screaming so the Su30 pilots weren't blind of the .



Experts can explain further but I think its not as simple as you put it. There are multiple A-A radar modes and while a target can detect being scanned & locked by radar via RWR, they may not detect a missile launch depending on the radar mode used to launch. It is only when the missile goes active that the target may get a warning by which time it may be too late… this is what I believe happened in the case of the SU 30. Hence situational awareness, secure comms, AEWCS and ECCM are extremely important to be able to make a good guess when the adversary is able to fire (and you are entering their no escape zone).


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## waz

Destrius said:


> What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> *Mig21 shoots down F16*
> Mig21 then gets shot down
> Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
> Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
> They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.



Hilariously you write of conspiracy theories yet tout one of the lousiest lies ever put forward in modern aviation history. Do you Indians even realise how much the world laughed at you, included the world's air forces? Even your allies told you to stop lying about the lost F-16 and yet you still carry on till this day.
Post traumatic stress syndrome is a real thing and I have to hand to the Indian media machine and that they at least tried to lie and sooth over India's worst conventional defeat in modern times.


Here sober up dear chap;






04.52, enjoy , not just one but numerous expert sources debunk the idiotic claim you shot down an F-16, poor IAF.....

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## SIPRA

airomerix said:


> I want to smoke what you're smoking.



If you did that; you might see thousands of F-16 crashing and falling down, all around you.

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## maverick1977

Destrius said:


> What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> Mig21 shoots down F16
> Mig21 then gets shot down
> Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
> Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
> They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.




All four missiles on MIG 21 were intact... 

watch 13:50






there are a bunch more available. Kiss your *** good bye.. mwah..

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## Taha Samad

Destrius said:


> What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> Mig21 shoots down F16
> Mig21 then gets shot down
> Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
> Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
> They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.



Being very conservation here is what likely happened:

F16 fired at SU-30 as it might have threatened the Strike Package. Su-30 did evasive maneuver & escaped with non-fatal damage. Pilot was able to recover the aircraft to an airbase.

This explains:

i) Initial News on Indian Channel that Su-30 was shot down.
ii) Second Su-30 leaving the area afterwards.
ii) PAF claim of Su-30 being hit based on radar data, data from F-16 computer, intercepted radio communication. Remember PAF memorial mentioned "Avenger" call sign before India acknowledged this info publicly. 
iii) The piece of AMRAAM which show sign of warhead triggering(deformed, ragged edges & folded outwards).
iv) IAF patch celebrating AMRAAM Dodger; possibly celebrating pilot's flying to escape with non-fatal damage & being able to recover the aircraft.
v) Lack of Su-30 wreckage.

Mig-21 scrambled, unintentionally crossed LOC due to radio jamming. Was shot down by another F-16.

Lack of Evidence to support even Mig-21 firing anything let alone F-16 kill:

1) No wreckage
2) OSINT and later PAF showed all 4 missiles either intact or still connected to airframe at time of crash.
3) Foreign Policy article confirming no F-16 shot.
4) On one hand India themselves claim that Abhinandan could hear his controller because of communication jamming, but under same conditions he was able to relay back to his controller that he shot down an F-16?
5) Indian Media reported that Su-30s radars could not get lock on to F-16(again possibly due to jamming by PAF), but under same condition relies on a blip going off radar scope as confirmation of kill. What if that blip wasn't a real plane in 1st place; that's how jamming works i.e you saturate radar with false returns. What if it was but then flew behind a mountain or jamming caused the radar processor to filter out the clutter altogether?

ISPR in fog of war made mistake of double counting abhinandan as 2 pilots. IAF waited for situation to clear up. Knew Mig-21 with pilot is on Pakistani side and that Su-30 wreckage/damage isn't in public domain so confirmed one loss and then added a F-16 shot down story to save face.

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## Windjammer

Destrius said:


> What's with all these conspiracy theories? What happened was very simple.
> 
> Mig21 shoots down F16
> Mig21 then gets shot down
> Pakistan claims to also shoot down Su30 so as not to lose face, expecting clear evidence of downed f16 to be revealed.
> Lucky for Pakistan, they could deny their f16 loss.
> They then withdraw anything about shooting Su30 as they have no need to save face anymore.


And then there are those countries without a face who hide their incompetence like the black box of the Mi-17 until the dust settles.....BTW, your clay footed warlords holding up AMRAAM pieces is like someone getting thrashed with their own stick.

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## HRK

Why all of senior and sane minded people are giving any importance to that false flag gangoo troll .... ???

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## StormBreaker

Hodor said:


> As soon as a lock is maintained on you,your jet's computer will start to warn you and the moment the missile is released, jet's computer will start screaming so the Su30 pilots weren't blind of the fact that they have been fired upon and went into defensive mode ASAP so chances of getting hit by the AMRAAM from nose side is not possible and its also against the Anti BVR tactics.In ideal situation the missile would have hit from left side of the Su30 or maybe and most probably from its backside so that's that.Also as per witness reports the Su30 was running for its life in heading of friendly airspace.
> 
> 
> Shiet....


So is there any way to jam the MAWS and RWR ?
So the BVR our any AAM Comes in silently and bye bye ??

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## Bratva

Windjammer said:


> Read my post again, i clearly stated that i have seen the conference where he explains how he got mixed up with claims of one pilot captured and some others in the area......being confused about numbers of pilots is one thing and disclosing that one has died is something else.....this was repeated by the DG ISPR in another programme as well....and when i bumped into the PAF Air chief in Doha earlier this year, he sidelined my inquisitive on the subject and instead praised my knowledge and interest in the PAF.




DGISPR owning the only 1 pilot arrested. His mention of death of pilot can be termed as a propaganda. This clearly disregards all his previous theories of death of pilot. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212635696206401536

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## untitled

Did DG ISPR just post a picture of a wrecked Indian hawk trainer in his tweet? This isn't going to do us any favours


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## Bratva

HRK said:


> Why all of senior and sane minded people are giving any importance to that false flag gangoo troll .... ???




This destritus guy is on a rival indian forum and is cursing and swearing at Pakistan freely.

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## air marshal



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## HawkEye27

Nice Lithographs for Gifts

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## Path-Finder

HawkEye27 said:


> Nice Lithographs for Gifts
> 
> View attachment 598292
> View attachment 598293
> View attachment 598294
> View attachment 598295


how did you get hold of these?


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## khanasifm

HawkEye27 said:


> Nice Lithographs for Gifts
> 
> View attachment 598292
> View attachment 598293
> View attachment 598294
> View attachment 598295



It would be nice to get clear readable Pics

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## YeBeWarned

Bratva said:


> DGISPR owning the only 1 pilot arrested. His mention of death of pilot can be termed as a propaganda. This clearly disregards all his previous theories of death of pilot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212635696206401536



Wait ? Pakistan Navy deterred IN ? what did i miss ?


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## airomerix

Starlord said:


> Wait ? Pakistan Navy deterred IN ? what did i miss ?



Their submarine was at the mercy of our P-3C Orion. The trigger was set to release an AGM-84 Harpoon.

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## YeBeWarned

airomerix said:


> Their submarine was at the mercy of our P-3C Orion. The trigger was set to release an AGM-84 Harpoon.



they send one Submarine ? was that in Feb or its the old incident ?


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## GumNaam

Starlord said:


> they send one Submarine ? was that in Feb or its the old incident ?


it was right after Feb 27th, I think like, 1st of March. Wish the PN had sunk it.

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## HawkEye27

Path-Finder said:


> how did you get hold of these?



Here.

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## HRK

Starlord said:


> Wait ? Pakistan Navy deterred IN ? what did i miss ?


- Pak Sub perform deterrence mission in India naval defence zone .... Captain of the sub and other was awarded for this .... 
- We successfully detected their sub approaching near our waters

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## Talon

HawkEye27 said:


> Here.
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


Original post

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## truthseeker2010

airomerix said:


> Their submarine was at the mercy of our P-3C Orion. The trigger was set to release an *AGM-84 Harpoon*.



So sub was surfaced or at periscope depth.


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## Aasimkhan

Windjammer said:


> And then there are those countries without a face who hide their incompetence like the black box of the Mi-17 until the dust settles.....BTW, your clay footed warlords holding up AMRAAM pieces is like someone getting thrashed with their own stick.


Come on everybody knows BLACK BOX was stolen by KASHMIRI MUJAHIDEEN, whats the issue?


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## Ghessan

airomerix said:


> Their submarine was at the mercy of our P-3C Orion. The trigger was set to release an AGM-84 Harpoon.



wish they had it sunk.

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## Windjammer

Aasimkhan said:


> Come on everybody knows BLACK BOX was stolen by KASHMIRI MUJAHIDEEN, whats the issue?


Really, what good is it to them.....and if that was the case, why they never revealed it later.


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## Haris Ali2140

Aasimkhan said:


> Come on everybody knows BLACK BOX was stolen by KASHMIRI MUJAHIDEEN, whats the issue?


No. It was mistaken as a Pakistani pilot as was lynched by public of IOK.


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## F86 Saber

Windjammer said:


> Really, what good is it to them.....and if that was the case, why they never revealed it later.



Another question, how did the Kashmiri's recognize the Black Box out of all the mechanical debris? It is not as if it has the words "Black Box, do not steal" written on it.


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## Rafi

F86 Saber said:


> Another question, how did the Kashmiri's recognize the Black Box out of all the mechanical debris? It is not as if it has the words "Black Box, do not steal" written on it.




Injun army ate it, because they were so hungry.

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## messiach

AESA are already in use. Look back at my prior mails.



The Accountant said:


> I dont think its a radar. I feel its a jamming pod. We heared the rumours that jf17 is being modified serve the role. Never knew that it is already done. @messiach @airomerix can u please reveal whats the reality if AESA

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## PakFactor

messiach said:


> AESA are already in use. Look back at my prior mails.



Do you know anything about the in-house development some people are claiming? Or its not reality, cause we don't have the necessary know how to TR modules etc.


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## khanasifm

Ghessan said:


> wish they had it sunk.



If it was folks like you US and USSR would have fought world war 3 long ago 

And pak and India exchange of nuclear ☢️ weapons long ago 

How many incursions by Russia eastern block bombers, fighters and naval ships since 1950/60 into US and nato airspace and seas ? Do you have any idea ?

It’s very easy for someone with no background or actual responsively to say things

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## Ghessan

khanasifm said:


> If it was folks like you US and USSR would have fought world war 3 long ago
> 
> And pak and India exchange of nuclear ☢️ weapons long ago
> 
> How many incursions by Russia eastern block bombers, fighters and naval ships since 1950/60 into US and nato airspace and seas ? Do you have any idea ?
> 
> It’s very easy for someone with no background or actual responsively to say things



why do you bring in US and USSR, they knew what were they against and what would be the consequences. here scenario discussed is about Indo-Pak.
we are against a much bigger enemy and it is regional. no big powers will let it go outside the region. this is one thing.
the other thing is as much we make it big it would have grown that way hence the response. we limit it and curtail our response.
you talk about nuclear exchange, it will always have a different scenario and that has many factors.

and don't talk to me of background since you do not know me, have no habit of chest thumping. i do not belittle people so avoid.


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## aliyusuf

@Ghessan
Let me take the liberty to interject and lay it out to you how I see the things that went down at around that time. Our armed forces were at total high alert and we foiled their multiple attempts to create mayhem. What we could ill afford to do was to engage the enemy in a long drawn conflict, which many (myself included) of us thought would have led to if we had ...
1) Shot down more planes
2) Sunk their sub
3) Destroyed more check posts around the LOC

*Bottom Line:* We purposefully avoided humiliating the enemy to an extent where it would have become necessary for them to escalate to save face (election year and all). We were in no economic position to fight a war of our choosing and fight it at our terms. We still aren't. Hence we sent the message across that although we don't want war ... but if compelled ... we are more than up to the task of defending ourselves. So, in the meanwhile we should be and are re-building our economic resources and bolstering our military capabilities ... for such a time when war is either thrust upon us or it becomes economically viable to engage the enemy on our terms and achieve our long term strategic goals (if need be).


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## Ghessan

aliyusuf said:


> @Ghessan
> Let me take the liberty to interject and lay it out to you how I see the things that went down at around that time. Our armed forces were at total high alert and we foiled their multiple attempts to create mayhem. What we could ill afford to do was to engage the enemy in a long drawn conflict, which many (myself included) of us thought would have led to if we had ...
> 1) Shot down more planes
> 2) Sunk their sub
> 3) Destroyed more check posts around the LOC
> 
> *Bottom Line:* We purposefully avoided humiliating the enemy to an extent where it would have become necessary for them to escalate to save face (election year and all). We were in no economic position to fight a war of our choosing and fight it at our terms. We still aren't. Hence we sent the message across that although we don't want war ... but if compelled ... we are more than up to the task of defending ourselves. So, in the meanwhile we should be and are re-building our economic resources and bolstering our military capabilities ... for such a time when war is either thrust upon us or it becomes economically viable to engage the enemy on our terms and achieve our long term strategic goals (if need be).



I thank you, everyone has a point and we used to stick to it. we always have narratives on our sides and with the foreseeable strength of that narrative we extend our reach but then we have a limit to it.

whereas opportunity has its liberty to no limit, which if compromised, die the same time. 

the answer is in your narrative above when you said election year stuff. they were not ready beyond the adventurism due to same very reason and it would never go beyond even whatever escalation level we defined.
it is evident from Modi politics even his generals spitting politics till today leads to the same conclusion and that's it. 

although future has its own plans but who knows how bloody it can be and to whom, but the readiness is the clue.


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## aliyusuf

Ghessan said:


> the answer is in your narrative above when you said election year stuff. they were not ready beyond the adventurism due to same very reason and it would never go beyond even whatever escalation level we defined


The crux of the matter is that when you are dealing with an extremist, fascist and retrogressive element like Modi and his RSS cohorts ... that boundary limit does not exist. The point is even more accentuated by his Kashmir Article 370 and the CAB bill shenanigans. He didn't hesitate to plunge India in strife and unrest to further his political agenda. He would not have hesitated a single bit to go to war with Pakistan had the losses been more embarrassing than what he could have handled politically and via media propaganda.

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## Ghessan

aliyusuf said:


> The crux of the matter is that when you are dealing with an extremist, fascist and retrogressive element like Modi and his RSS cohorts ... that boundary limit does not exist. The point is even more accentuated by his Kashmir Article 370 and the CAB bill shenanigans. He didn't hesitate to plunge India in strife and unrest to further his political agenda. He would not have hesitated a single bit to go to war with Pakistan had the losses been more embarrassing than what he could have handled politically and via media propaganda.



very true about Modi and RSS:
but one has to understand the psyche, cowardliness develops tactics of backstabbing and that is what they are no doubt about it. we saw what they did and are doing within their country and damn care about the world defines them clearly well. people with this thinking can do anything they want where they are at ease with no or minimal opposition. but they will always stand down when opponent his hard and they know their worth. 

war is to face the front and that comes only when one gives up on that bad habit of backstabbing which they will never give up.

so we will always see misadventures and must be ready for them. although there is always a way to end them, hit them hard, it bring many things to the table. 

when you say Modi is furthering his agenda, explain very well that he was in no mood to further escalate the situation after 27 Feb rather he had those political goals we evidenced latter.

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## -blitzkrieg-

Taha Samad said:


> ISPR in fog of war made mistake of double counting abhinandan as 2 pilots.


In this interview conducted in March 2019 (no more fog of war) he claimed havign two pilots.







Bratva said:


> DGISPR owning the only 1 pilot arrested. His mention of death of pilot can be termed as a propaganda. This clearly disregards all his previous theories of death of pilot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212635696206401536


The other pilot wasnt arrested he was taken directly to a hospital on medical grounds IMO.
There was no point in making a war trophy out of a dead corpse.However his name and uniform should be put up for public in due time.


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## Myth_buster_1

-blitzkrieg- said:


> In this interview conducted in March 2019 (no more fog of war) he claimed havign two pilots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other pilot wasnt arrested he was taken directly to a hospital on medical grounds IMO.
> There was no point in making a war trophy out of a dead corpse.However his name and uniform should be put up for public in due time.



Enough of this dosra banda bullsh1t.

If it was su-30 or f-16 pilot then where is the footage?? just some villagers high on churus hallucinating dosra banda is not evidence. and ispr needs to grow the fk up and provide evidence for su-30 if it is gonna keep claiming this kill.


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## -blitzkrieg-

truthseeker2010 said:


> So sub was surfaced or at periscope depth.





GumNaam said:


> it was right after Feb 27th, I think like, 1st of March. Wish the PN had sunk it.


No .actually Anti submarine warfare Squadron was chasing them for weeks!!!.So that explains they were caught in act somewhere during February before Feb 26th.They knew they were locked on and trapped.
They would occasionally come upto periscope depth , see the build up and then submerge.
In hopelessness they were taking a repetitive course and actions, a signal of surrender.Most likely the CO and XO were fired upon docking.



Myth_buster_1 said:


> If it was su-30 or f-16 pilot then where is the footage?? just some villagers high on churus hallucinating dosra banda is not evidence. and ispr needs to grow the fk up and provide evidence for su-30 if it is gonna keep claiming this kill.



Why dont Indians gets the count of their Su30 released and get this mystery solved once and for all..
They dont leave anything to be used against PAF.

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## Myth_buster_1

-blitzkrieg- said:


> Why dont Indians gets the count of their Su30 released and get this mystery solved once and for all..
> They dont leave anything to be used against PAF.



They could say they counted it and no loss, then what?
I do believe Su-30 may have been shot down but proof needs to be shown or else world will take you as a fool.

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## airomerix

Myth_buster_1 said:


> They could say they counted it and no loss, then what?
> I do believe Su-30 may have been shot down but proof needs to be shown or else world will take you as a fool.



Pentagon, Kremlin and all other stakeholders are well aware of the Su-30 loss. 

It's only the public which demands the proof and AHQ Islamabad could care less.

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## Myth_buster_1

airomerix said:


> Pentagon, Kremlin and all other stakeholders are well aware of the Su-30 loss.
> 
> It's only the public which demands the proof and AHQ Islamabad could care less.


How do you know pentagon is aware of su-30 loss?


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## PakFactor

Myth_buster_1 said:


> How do you know pentagon is aware of su-30 loss?



When the Russian delegation came to Islamabad the RAF Cheif was pissed the way Gangu's used the SU-30 and most likely knew of the loss.


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## airomerix

Myth_buster_1 said:


> How do you know pentagon is aware of su-30 loss?



Pentagon knew on the night of 27th what has happened and what has not. 

There is a division in AHQ which worked on the information decoded from the F-16s mission computer. The entire evidence was sent in a dossier to Pentagon via Air Attache in Washington DC. 

This is something which only a few people outside of the circles know about hence I wouldn't press the matter further.

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## Cookie Monster

Destrius said:


> You see Imran Khan, in his New York Times opinion piece after 370 revocation, only mentioned shooting down one plane. It's obvious the claim about shooting down the Su30 was only for domestic consumption. If no f16 had been shot down, Pakistan would have initially only claimed to have shot down the mig21. It only makes sense to fake shooting down an Su30 if they thought their loss of an f16 would have been found out.


Dumbest argument ever. On one hand u r claiming Su30 being shot down is just a "claim" and then u turn around and make ur F16 "claim" sound like a verified fact 

Show us proof RSS uncle. Either take both claims at face value...or deny both in absence of evidence.

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## air marshal




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## nomi007




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## sonic boom

Eyewitnesses (Pakistani Air Strike on Indian Military Installations) 27 Feb 2019

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## Mrc

This is good information

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## BATMAN

Hindu army is paralyzed due to over flights of Pakistani airforce, deep across line of control.

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## Haris Ali2140

sonic boom said:


> Eyewitnesses (Pakistani Air Strike on Indian Military Installations) 27 Feb 2019


Buddy you are openning too many threads. Why don't you save them for the anniversary???

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## Imran Khan

Wow chakar laga ker bomb giray thy shavashy paf

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## PakSword

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Buddy you are openning too many threads. Why don't you save them for the anniversary???


No problem, he can post them again on anniversary.. Keep them coming.



Imran Khan said:


> Wow chakar laga ker bomb giray thy shavashy paf


poori tasalli ke saath..

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## SIPRA

An informative video. Strange, I din't see it earlier.

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## sonic boom

SIPRA said:


> An informative video. Strange, I din't see it earlier.


Full video link 





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Riz

Imran Khan said:


> Wow chakar laga ker bomb giray thy shavashy paf


Aorr dooor kaheen 5th generation SU-30mki aka Mini AWACS..... AMRAAMs mijjiles par dance kar raha tha..

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## S.Y.A

Jahaaj aya aur jor dar bumb maar kar bhaag gaya

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## sonic boom

post link : https://tinyurl.com/vsgt45t


Mamankote LOC sy 104 KM dour hy

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## SD 10

sonic boom said:


> Mamankote LOC sy 104 KM dour hy


 DAMN!!!!


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## Taimoor Khan

sonic boom said:


> post link : https://tinyurl.com/vsgt45t
> 
> 
> Mamankote LOC sy 104 KM dour hy




Yea, target is indeed 100km away, deep inside Indian controlled territory. That is the biggest revelation so far. 

People get too consumed with the shooting down of two Indian jets but the real deal was the ground strikes.

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## Umar27

If these people saw aircraft and bomb impacts at the same area it mean these werent stand off weapons being used

Then if this mamankote is 100+km from LOC then then that means PAF Jets flew that far into their airspace and returned 

Remarkable


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## HaMoTZeMaS

sonic boom said:


> Mamankote LOC sy 104 KM dour hy



Wait... Whattt


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## Mighty Lion

loanranger said:


> Moron if AMRAAM self destructed no wreckage would fall. Low Iq indian.


Wrong.
Debris will still fall as Amraam at max range would have spent all fuel and only warhead 20 kg will remain


----------



## loanranger

silent_poison said:


> Wrong.
> Debris will still fall as Amraam at max range would have spent all fuel and only warhead 20 kg will remain


 Why are you assuming the AMRAAM will loose altitude and then self detonate. Why cant it be vapourised at high altitude???


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## Windjammer

silent_poison said:


> So AMRAAM missed the target and self detonated after it reached max range (104-105 km).
> 
> Self detonation after reaching max theoretical range is one of the inbuilt safety feature in all AMRAAMs B model onwards.
> 
> 2nd part of video is from mamankote village in tehsil chassana where the wreck of AMRAAM fell.
> https://www.jkpnewsportal.in/newsdet.aspx?q=2123


Once a person asked a hungry Indian that what is 2+2.....the Indian who was starving replied 2+2 equals Four Tandoori Chickens......while after witnessing the destruction of the fellow SU-3O the other one left the area at supersonic speed and the two Mirage-2000 pilots suddenly developed radar malfunctions, you OTOH are still running around like a headless chicken thinking that it must have been The AMRAAM that self detonated....do you have any idea that the missile reaches something like Mach-6 at the terminal stage.....the wreckage being waved by the IAF to the laughter of many was most likely lodged in the victim.

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## araz

Windjammer said:


> Once a person asked a hungry Indian that what is 2+2.....the Indian who was starving replied 2+2 equals Four Tandoori Chickens......while after witnessing the destruction of the fellow SU-3O the other one left the area at supersonic speed and the two Mirage-2000 pilots suddenly developed radar malfunctions, you OTOH are still running around like a headless chicken thinking that it must have been The AMRAAM that self detonated....do you have any idea that the missile reaches something like Mach-6 at the terminal stage.....the wreckage being waved by the IAF to the laughter of many was most likely lodged in the victim.


Windy bhai.
He is not here to seek answers. He is another mouthpiece of the chai walla defaecating the same material that has been used since last year.
Leave the poor boy be. How much molestation can one suffer. He is still going to look for the AMRAAM debris over Kashmir and forget the big arse it was lodged in.
A
A

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## Irfan Baloch

Umar27 said:


> If these people saw aircraft and bomb impacts at the same area it mean these werent stand off weapons being used
> 
> Then if this mamankote is 100+km from LOC then then that means PAF Jets flew that far into their airspace and returned
> 
> Remarkable


people might be confusing IAF and PAF jets. they cant see marking, due to mountains the is echo as well and its hard to tell distance they might be really hundred miles away secondly people build up stories thinking what they saw and then many mouths change the story that it becomes something else.



silent_poison said:


> So AMRAAM missed the target and self detonated after it reached max range (104-105 km).
> 
> Self detonation after reaching max theoretical range is one of the inbuilt safety feature in all AMRAAMs B model onwards.
> 
> 2nd part of video is from mamankote village in tehsil chassana where the wreck of AMRAAM fell.
> https://www.jkpnewsportal.in/newsdet.aspx?q=2123


Nobel prize for whoever found the wreckage of the amraam on its own 100 miles away from target that self destructed in the air and fell in small pieces. 
seriously give him biggest national award and then nominate him for Nobel prize for discovery

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## Path-Finder

sonic boom said:


> post link : https://tinyurl.com/vsgt45t
> 
> 
> Mamankote LOC sy 104 KM dour hy


this is a revelation! I hope we get more official details about the strike this year.


----------



## crankthatskunk

*Understand Modi comments now " agar Rafael hota tu nateeja kuch aur hota". 
*
Few things are crystal clear from these videos.

1- The real "surgical strikes" were conducted by the PAF not IAF.

2- PAF mislead the world purposefully by saying they used "SOW" weapons and never crossed the LOC.

3- This instance of PAF saved IAF and IA blushes who started to spread false propaganda about PAF strikes that they were in a hurry. When in fact these local's video confirmed that PAF went deep inside Indian held territory, not just fly passed it and returned, but stayed in, performed circles before dropping bomb.

4- The wounds of India are deep, and scars are even deeper. Their false superiority bubble was burst on 27th Feb in spectacular fashion by PAF. No wonder since then SU 30 are hiding somewhere.

5- Indian rushed to get the delivery of the 36 Rafale on order.

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## Mighty Lion

Windjammer said:


> Once a person asked a hungry Indian that what is 2+2.....the Indian who was starving replied 2+2 equals Four Tandoori Chickens......while after witnessing the destruction of the fellow SU-3O the other one left the area at supersonic speed and the two Mirage-2000 pilots suddenly developed radar malfunctions, you OTOH are still running around like a headless chicken thinking that it must have been The AMRAAM that self detonated....do you have any idea that the missile reaches something like Mach-6 at the terminal stage.....the wreckage being waved by the IAF to the laughter of many was most likely lodged in the victim.


Oh boy you have zero idea how AMRAAM works. AMRAAM reaches its max speed of mach 4-4.5 at final seconds at which it motor burns out (10-15 s after launch)
At the distance of 105 km AMRAAMs speed will reduce to less than Mach 2.

Rest of you posts about Su 30s is a made up story fit only for Wattpad



Irfan Baloch said:


> Nobel prize for whoever found the wreckage of the amraam on its own 100 miles away from target that self destructed in the air and fell in small pieces.
> seriously give him biggest national award and then nominate him for Nobel prize for discovery


We already gave them cash rewards.
We were lucky to find AMRAAM wreck as it fell near a village injuring a shepherd


----------



## khansaheeb

What bomb did PAF drop that sent debris in a 1 KM radius? Must be a real bad-*** bomb that shook the Indians to their senses. Seems like we really hurt their ego and they are itching for another round.


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## sonic boom

(PAF Museum Karachi)

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## Pakistani Fighter

sonic boom said:


> post link : https://tinyurl.com/vsgt45t
> 
> 
> Mamankote LOC sy 104 KM dour hy


H4's range is 120km



silent_poison said:


> Oh boy you have zero idea how AMRAAM works. AMRAAM reaches its max speed of mach 4-4.5 at final seconds at which it motor burns out (10-15 s after launch)
> At the distance of 105 km AMRAAMs speed will reduce to less than Mach 2.
> 
> Rest of you posts about Su 30s is a made up story fit only for Wattpad
> 
> 
> We already gave them cash rewards.
> We were lucky to find AMRAAM wreck as it fell near a village injuring a shepherd


@F-22Raptor ur input

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## crankthatskunk

Irfan Baloch said:


> people might be confusing IAF and PAF jets. they cant see marking, due to mountains the is echo as well and its hard to tell distance they might be really hundred miles away secondly people build up stories thinking what they saw and then many mouths change the story that it becomes something else.



Come on Super mod, they guys said that the jet circled the area, how could it be 100 miles away if they can see is circles over their heads!! 
Secondly, why would the IAF jets circle over their heads and drop a bomb!! 
Both of your comments don't make sense to me.

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## Yaseen1

it is sad that common kashmiris are injured in such attacks,I think this report may be planted by indian media to provoke kashmiris against our airforce as it is presenting all common kashmiris victim of such attack and not showing reports about indian army damage


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## vishwambhar

silent_poison said:


> Oh boy you have zero idea how AMRAAM works. AMRAAM reaches its max speed of mach 4-4.5 at final seconds at which it motor burns out (10-15 s after launch)
> At the distance of 105 km AMRAAMs speed will reduce to less than Mach 2.
> 
> Rest of you posts about Su 30s is a made up story fit only for Wattpad
> 
> 
> We already gave them cash rewards.
> We were lucky to find AMRAAM wreck as it fell near a village injuring a shepherd



Bro silent Poison ... Plz no need to participate in such threads..... If one small air skirmish (not a full blown air battle) is making them Third World War winner or letting them set a yard stick for air battle between the two powers then let it be on the PDF.... They keep opening threads after threads shows the desperation on their part....

Let them keep shouting about Modi saying if rafale was there then the results would have been different.... Modi was being taken left right and centre by Congress that time over rafale deal and it was a perfect opportunity for modi to justify rafale purchase... Fan boys will never understand....

Did their punny victory (even as per them they shot down MKI) stop India to annex their JAGULAR VEIN kashmir parmanantly? Are they able to do anything about it except expecting outside help? Ik himself said we don't have capacity to attack India... Period...

They are so helpless that they couldn't even attend the summit of a nation who stood behind them risking it's relationship with India.... India knows what it's capable of and hence the step regarding article 370 was taken..... A small air skirmish victory is not going to change anything

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## araz

silent_poison said:


> Oh boy you have zero idea how AMRAAM works. AMRAAM reaches its max speed of mach 4-4.5 at final seconds at which it motor burns out (10-15 s after launch)
> At the distance of 105 km AMRAAMs speed will reduce to less than Mach 2.
> 
> Rest of you posts about Su 30s is a made up story fit only for Wattpad
> 
> 
> We already gave them cash rewards.
> We were lucky to find AMRAAM wreck as it fell near a village injuring a shepherd


Abay bhai .
Stop it now. None of us barring your own self know anything. Now take your little bruised tushy away and sit in a quiet corner. You are not the only one with knowledge here.
A

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## Mighty Lion

araz said:


> None of us barring your own self know anything.
> A


Right.
Thanks for the admission.


----------



## Windjammer

silent_poison said:


> Oh boy you have zero idea how AMRAAM works. AMRAAM reaches its max speed of mach 4-4.5 at final seconds at which it motor burns out (10-15 s after launch)
> At the distance of 105 km AMRAAMs speed will reduce to less than Mach 2.
> 
> Rest of you posts about Su 30s is a made up story fit only for Wattpad


Well genius, total burnout time of AMRAAM is 120 seconds and it's a fact that the missile wasn't launched from a distant of 105 km and it went pitbull after entering Indian airspace....now work the rest out besides...if as you say that the AMRAAM was self-detonating....what about the AMRAAM dodgers you lot created as another lame excuse.

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## Irfan Baloch

crankthatskunk said:


> Come on Super mod, they guys said that the jet circled the area, how could it be 100 miles away if they can see is circles over their heads!!
> Secondly, why would the IAF jets circle over their heads and drop a bomb!!
> Both of your comments don't make sense to me.



have a cold glass of water and relax
I have dealt with people in 30 years of service 

what people see and perceive is different to what they say

when there is flurry of events its hard for untrained to distinguish 
one from another. 
distances ate deceiving and so are the sounds in mountainous area

they are speaking for the camera 
their commentary is scripted

on a clear day like that in the north you can see vapour trails and vehicles quiet far away this is what we did when we reported troops movements and air activity 

its a topic for another discussion.

i am not calling these people liars but whst actually happened and whatone told the other and other told the 3rd and so forth may be different 

they might be confusing sonic boom bomb impact crash or just low fly over with whatever they claim.

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## crankthatskunk

Irfan Baloch said:


> have a cold glass of water and relax
> I have dealt with people in 30 years of service
> 
> what people see and perceive is different to what they say
> 
> when there is flurry of events its hard for untrained to distinguish
> one from another.
> distances ate deceiving and so are the sounds in mountainous area
> 
> they are speaking for the camera
> their commentary is scripted
> 
> on a clear day like that in the north you can see vapour trails and vehicles quiet far away this is what we did when we reported troops movements and air activity
> 
> its a topic for another discussion.
> 
> i am not calling these people liars but whst actually happened and whatone told the other and other told the 3rd and so forth may be different
> 
> they might be confusing sonic boom bomb impact crash or just low fly over with whatever they claim.



I can easily answer your long post. But considering the style of management on this site, I am sure, you will block me responding to this thread on the pretence that my comments are irrelevant to the discussion. 
Which such policies, there is no need to say anything. 

By the way, did you reach to the "General's" level after 30 years!!


----------



## Myth_buster_1

silent_poison said:


> Oh boy you have zero idea how AMRAAM works. AMRAAM reaches its max speed of mach 4-4.5 at final seconds at which it motor burns out (10-15 s after launch)
> At the distance of 105 km AMRAAMs speed will reduce to less than Mach 2.
> 
> Rest of you posts about Su 30s is a made up story fit only for Wattpad
> 
> 
> We already gave them cash rewards.
> We were lucky to find AMRAAM wreck as it fell near a village injuring a shepherd



thats not how AAM works. 
AAM missile range all depends on what altitude it was launched like if its 1,000 feet then expect 10-20 KM and if its 50K feet then it can reach at its full potential range.


----------



## Windjammer

vishwambhar said:


> Bro silent Poison ... Plz no need to participate in such threads..... If one small air skirmish (not a full blown air battle) is making them Third World War winner or letting them set a yard stick for air battle between the two powers then let it be on the PDF.... They keep opening threads after threads shows the desperation on their part....
> 
> Let them keep shouting about Modi saying if rafale was there then the results would have been different.... Modi was being taken left right and centre by Congress that time over rafale deal and it was a perfect opportunity for modi to justify rafale purchase... Fan boys will never understand....
> 
> Did their punny victory (even as per them they shot down MKI) stop India to annex their JAGULAR VEIN kashmir parmanantly? Are they able to do anything about it except expecting outside help? Ik himself said we don't have capacity to attack India... Period...
> 
> They are so helpless that they couldn't even attend the summit of a nation who stood behind them risking it's relationship with India.... India knows what it's capable of and hence the step regarding article 370 was taken..... A small air skirmish victory is not going to change anything


And you had to adopt an ID and come on PDF to get this off your chest....but then we have the right to post material on PDF....what's your excuse....where else can you people box above your weight and still get ignored.

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## POPEYE-Sailor

*look who wana fight with us ?? 

Indian t-72 nearly crushes crowd during the performance
*




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=776736242848122

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## Mighty Lion

Myth_buster_1 said:


> thats not how AAM works.
> AAM missile range all depends on what altitude it was launched like if its 1,000 feet then expect 10-20 KM and if its 50K feet then it can reach at its full potential range.


You are only partially right.
Its not just altitide but it also depends upon Speed of launch aircraft & it's AoA as well as temperature, winds, air pressure etc



Windjammer said:


> Well genius, total burnout time of AMRAAM is 120 seconds and it's a fact that the missile wasn't launched from a distant of 105 km and it went pitbull after entering Indian airspace....now work the rest out besides...if as you say that the AMRAAM was self-detonating....what about the AMRAAM dodgers you lot created as another lame excuse.


This is the most hilariously wrong thing I have read in my entire life.

AIM-120 has a motor burnout time of only 10-15 seconds
https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=f4323fdf-4b41-45e4-8769-618c9820c02c&subId=407527

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## Windjammer

silent_poison said:


> This is the most hilariously wrong thing I have read in my entire life.
> 
> AIM-120 has a motor burnout time of only 10-15 seconds
> https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=f4323fdf-4b41-45e4-8769-618c9820c02c&subId=407527


Actually the most hilarious thing this forum ever witnessed is a certain shameless creature adopting fake IDs only to repeatedly get humiliated....and we always oblige.

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## Basel

sonic boom said:


> post link : https://tinyurl.com/vsgt45t
> 
> 
> Mamankote LOC sy 104 KM dour hy



H series bombs were used and H-4 have max range of 120km.


----------



## Pakistan Space Agency

sonic boom said:


> Eyewitnesses (Pakistani Air Strike on Indian Military Installations) 27 Feb 2019



The last buzurg in the interview mentions the area of "Maman Kot, Tehsil Chasana, District Reasi" where one of bombs fell.

Is this confirmed?
Any civilian footage and/or satellite photographs of this damaged area recorded anywhere?


----------



## Basel

crankthatskunk said:


> I can easily answer your long post. But considering the style of management on this site, I am sure, you will block me responding to this thread on the pretence that my comments are irrelevant to the discussion.
> Which such policies, there is no need to say anything.
> 
> By the way, did you reach to the "General's" level after 30 years!!



Indian members are treated very well on PDF as compared to Indians behavior on Indian forums like Bharat Rakshak or IDF, first correct your backyard before lecturing others.


----------



## American Pakistani

sonic boom said:


> Eyewitnesses (Pakistani Air Strike on Indian Military Installations) 27 Feb 2019


All such videos must be downloaded and saved on multiple devices. Yt, Google, Twitter etc all are infested with bharti who hate truth and hence delete ban anything that expose bhart.

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## PakShaheen79

Well, Here is what Google Map is showing about this place;

It is deep inside LoC.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/...89576,74.550673,23762m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US

Question remains; If it was a PAF strike as is evident from videos, what could be the possible target in that particular area?


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## crankthatskunk

Basel said:


> Indian members are treated very well on PDF as compared to Indians behavior on Indian forums like Bharat Rakshak or IDF, first correct your backyard before lecturing others.



Excuse me!! Who is Indian!!!
I can not believe snide comments on this forum. First this *"have a cold glass of water and relax"* and now you. 
*Mannerism is not your forte. *

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## The Eagle

Going through this thread makes me like there are few with opinion as "What if I don't know anything for the matter at hand but I will still post for the sake of it". Com'n people.

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## Goenitz

sonic boom said:


> *Operation Swift Retort: PAF Mirage III's & V's returning after hitting Indian targets.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


come on bro.. it is sunset time.... never post such things which are unconfirmed


----------



## Bratva



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## airomerix

Bratva said:


>



This notification will hang in the hall of fame of lies and moral deceit in the military aviation community for years to come.

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## The Eagle

Bratva said:


>



Yeah ... rewarded with VC so that he will have to keep quiet and never spill a single word about the episode of that day. Not just that but he had thoughts for the safety of his family as well and nonetheless, Doval met him for reason while keeping safe distance. This VC is given on the basis of a whole bunch of lies and will be treated as a wild deception. It doesn't matter to the Indian Establishment whether there is a proof and a fantasy but as long as something can relate to their own falsified statements, all is well without any fear of shame before the world. 

On other hand; this is exactly what Pakistan is dealing with... an ignorant rival that doesn't care being exposed but will still keep churning the lies. No moral or dignity at all neither any self respect from Modi & Company. Indians who knew that there is no F-16 being shot, will again cursing the day but will have to keep quiet to not to be called traitors.

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## untitled

The Eagle said:


> Indians who knew that there is no F-16 being shot, will again cursing the day but will have to keep quiet to not to be called traitors.


Let's say sometime in the near future a definite proof of Indian lies is brought to the world. What good will it do?
Will it bring down the BJP government?
Will the IAF brass resign?
Will the award given to W/C Varthaman be taken back?


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## The Eagle

member.exe said:


> Will it bring down the BJP government?
> Will the IAF brass resign?
> Will the award given to W/C Varthaman be taken back?



It will do any of above only if it does matter to Indian at all... you ain't gonna help them and they aren't willing as such.



member.exe said:


> What good will it do?



It has already proven them lying & exposed on many forums. What they now actually claims, is merely for domestic consumption and somehow an attempt to support their lies. In due course to avoid any embarrassment, which they couldn't; a lie is being made to cover previous and they are exposed as every time BJP/RSS does so. It will remain in history for very long time to come and that is in-fact really good to be done.

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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> There is a division in AHQ which worked on the information decoded from the F-16s mission computer. The entire evidence was sent in a dossier to Pentagon via Air Attache in Washington DC.


A question. Was there a need to send the evidence to US? Why would we send what we did to India to US?

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## TheTallGuy

@The Eagle 
So as per recent posture of Nazi Modi & armed forces? do you believe its for domestic consumption or a threat to Pakistan National Sovereignty. 

7-10 days threat they have stated what is your analysis?


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

TheTallGuy said:


> @The Eagle
> So as per recent posture of Nazi Modi & armed forces? do you believe its for domestic consumption or a threat to Pakistan National Sovereignty.
> 
> 7-10 days threat they have stated what is your analysis?


Did they gave out statement or a question was asked to them?


----------



## Ghost 125

TheTallGuy said:


> @The Eagle
> So as per recent posture of Nazi Modi & armed forces? do you believe its for domestic consumption or a threat to Pakistan National Sovereignty.
> 
> 7-10 days threat they have stated what is your analysis?


elections in Delhi


----------



## Windjammer

TheTallGuy said:


> @The Eagle
> So as per recent posture of Nazi Modi & armed forces? do you believe its for domestic consumption or a threat to Pakistan National Sovereignty.
> 
> 7-10 days threat they have stated what is your analysis?


DG ISPR Asif Ghafoor in his final interaction with media gave a statement in this regards, you should watch that.
Basically he said, it's not a question of 7-10 days rather what will happen before and after that period.

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## Ghost 125

Windjammer said:


> DG ISPR Asif Ghafoor in his final interaction with media gave a statement in this regards, you should watch that.
> Basically he said, it's not a question of 7-10 days rather what will happen before and after that period.


if it ever happens, which is unlikely in first place...if ,,it happens we will nuke them on the last day..be it 7, 10...or 30 days...problem is ,,cost of defeating Pakistan is too high, if any one can endure it they can try.

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## Windjammer

Ghost 125 said:


> if it ever happens, which is unlikely in first place...if ,,it happens we will nuke them on the last day..be it 7, 10...or 30 days...problem is ,,cost of defeating Pakistan is too high, if any one can endure it they can try.


Dude we don't need to waste our hard-earned nuclear capability on these creatures....when was the last time they ever fought their own wars, either they were helped by Muktis or their necks were saved from under our boots by their saviours....they can't even contain a few hundred Kashmiri freedom fighters...what hope for them to take on Pakistani army.


----------



## Ghost 125

Windjammer said:


> Dude we don't need to waste our hard-earned nuclear capability on these creatures....when was the last time they ever fought their own wars, either they were helped by Muktis or their necks were saved from under our boots by their saviours....they can't even contain a few hundred Kashmiri freedom fighters...what hope for them to take on Pakistani army.


exactly thts why i said if it ever happns which is not likely.


----------



## T-90 India

Why do you need to nuke us? You can't win otherwise because you said we can't handle a few kashmiri fighters you see. 
Have you seen this video, you see the the intentions of Indian Army here? And also kindly see the others.











Kindly Note - I am here now


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## sonic boom

(Su-30 or Mi-17) analyze this video - Caught on my camera ...where IAF jet catches Fire.











Thanamandi Map










according to uploader (video date is 28 Feb 2019)

But here is same clip (*uploaded on 27th Feb 2019*)





@MZ-PDF

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## Trailer23

@sonic boom

Piece of advice. If your post has something to do with an existing Topic, just post it there rather than constantly starting new Topics over & over.

You now have 3 Topics, covering pretty much the same material.

There is a Topic:
*27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR*

Just post anything relating to Operation Swift Retort there.

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## sonic boom

Trailer23 said:


> @sonic boom
> 
> Piece of advice. If your post has something to do with an existing Topic, just post it there rather than constantly starting new Topics over & over.
> 
> You now have 3 Topics, covering pretty much the same material.
> 
> There is a Topic:
> *27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR*
> 
> Just post anything relating to Operation Swift Retort there.


thanks brother i'm new here


----------



## Falcon26

The wheel of time said:


> Of course, but that gives us significant advantage above the old f16s of 80s. besides the flankers have unmatched monoeuverability and ever eurofighters were not able to defeat it then where do f16s stand. There is a reason why India does not want them, they are obsolete and stand zero chance against the likes of flankers and rafales and even mig29s.



Just beautiful comment lol

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## sonic boom

Simone said:


> Is this video shot by you?


no,



sonic boom said:


> (Su-30 or Mi-17) analyze this video - Caught on my camera ...where IAF jet catches Fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanamandi Map
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> according to uploader (video date is 28 Feb 2019)
> 
> But here is same clip (*uploaded on 27th Feb 2019*)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @MZ-PDF


@Windjammer @MZ-PDF @Path-Finder @TOPGUN please check


----------



## Path-Finder

Has anyone gone back to page one and read it again?  Makes for a great read of indian chest thumping and (so called) fellow Pakistani's ridiculing the Armed forces without understanding anything or without having a clear picture. 

I hope in 2020 and the future we can refrain from doing this again. some Pakistani members were utter kants on the day and we shouldn't forget this!!

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## AMRAAM

Simone said:


> Okay.
> 
> Longer version of the video will unravel the mystery of the second jet shot down.
> People can be heard in the clip saying it's on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another very interesting video shows multiple BVR missiles being fired. Lets remember Pakistan says only two bvrs fired but at two different Indian jets at different sites of engagement.
> 
> If somebody can explain what's going on in the clip.
> @airomerix @silent_poison



The question is, who captured this video? In the operations like these where the stakes are high, nobody can even afford to spare a single moment to something like capturing a video.

Also, I remember, airomerix said it in some other thread that AIM-120 won't be visible at all due to its speed and small size.


----------



## sonic boom

AMRAAM said:


> The question is, who captured this video? In the operations like these where the stakes are high, nobody can even afford to spare a single moment to something like capturing a video.
> 
> Also, I remember, airomerix said it in some other thread that AIM-120 won't be visible at all due to its speed and small size.


upscaled footage


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Simone said:


> It's also 104 KM way out of range of Pakistani sows unless PAF fired them 10 km inside indian airspace




H4 SOW which we developed in early 2000s, nearly two decade ago , got "declared" 120KM range.

The REKs are also 100KM+.


----------



## Windjammer

Simone said:


> Thanks for the clip. But it wasn't air strike on Indian military installation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------
> 
> Few points to make.
> 
> The place of impact is Chasna village, Reasi district which doesnt have any major Indian military installation that pakistan could target. And truth is they didn't target the place.
> 
> It's also 104 KM way out of range of Pakistani sows unless PAF fired them 10 km inside indian airspace , since there isn't any army installation no point guessing they actually they targeted it.
> 
> Most importantly, India media say it was the place where spent AMRAAM was found after it exploded hurting local man.
> 
> *REAd this* *: It corroborates what said in the video*.
> 
> 
> http://www.uniindia.com/j-k-police-...on-on-amraam-remnants/north/news/1515850.html
> 
> *One more interesting point, none in the crowd talked about any jet being crashed at the point impact. So that also negates the Pakistani theory that AMRAAM was found from debris of Su30.*
> 
> 
> They were Indian jets, two Su30MKI to be precise at that moment chased by AMRAAM missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> They are actually Gujjar Bakarwals from District Reasi , Jammu region.


So you supposedly joined only yesterday and here you are quoting and debating like a seasoned poster.
We all know the reason...don't we.
Anyways let's see how long some American agency keeps it under the lid so as not to humiliate India openly.
Who knows what might get exposed on the first anniversary....Christian Fair did try to advise you in a special manner.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...ld-settle-debate-over-pakistan-india-dogfight


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## Falcon26

Path-Finder said:


> Has anyone gone back to page one and read it again?  Makes for a great read of indian chest thumping and (so called) fellow Pakistani's ridiculing the Armed forces without understanding anything or without having a clear picture.
> 
> I hope in 2020 and the future we can refrain from doing this again. some Pakistani members were utter kants on the day and we shouldn't forget this!!



They are indian users using Pakistani names.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Simone said:


> Okay.
> 
> Longer version of the video will unravel the mystery of the second jet shot down.
> People can be heard in the clip saying it's on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another very interesting video shows multiple BVR missiles being fired. Lets remember Pakistan says only two bvrs fired but at two different Indian jets at different sites of engagement.
> 
> If somebody can explain what's going on in the clip.
> @airomerix @silent_poison



PAF said 2 AMRAAM were launched that each killed SU and Mig but does not mention how many altogether were launched that also forced remaining IAF fighters to bug out.

In these videos you can only see fighter jets going at supersonic speed which could be either PAF intruding Indian air space or IAF fighters going back. 
Also a missile is tiny compare to a jet engine so contrail would be much much smaller.

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## Bilal.

Simone said:


> One of them is certainly a missile evident from the speed and straight trajectory, it could be hit seeking missile R-73 fired from Mig 21.



None of the missiles on the Mig21 were fired, shown multiple time on this forum.

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## graphican

Simone said:


> One of them is certainly a missile evident from the speed and straight trajectory, it could be hit seeking missile R-73 fired from Mig 21.



*If it was shoulder-launched R-73 which Abhinandan fired from within the cockpit* then you are on point. There is a chance that it could be _that_ R-73 then. Paksitan recovered 4 A2A missiles stationed with the wreckage of Abhinandan's jet. Do you consider this aspect when you make your assumptions?

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## loanranger

Simone said:


> As reported by India media, it was an ARRAAM missile that fell off and exploded after loosing track of it's target.


Why can't a missile self destruct in air ?

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## Path-Finder

Falcon26 said:


> They are indian users using Pakistani names.


ah no, if you go back and read all entries for 26/02/19 or 02/26/19 you will see mostly regular members doing the enemies PsyOps work for them.

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## graphican

Simone said:


> Even then if paf fired from 120 km away from LOC, they would come across 10KM in sheer momentum and also the place doesn't have any military installation nearby. Hardly worth the risk.
> As reported by India media, it was an ARRAAM missile that fell off and exploded after loosing track of it's target.
> 
> 
> I understand that's the Pakistani position.
> But also true another jet went down that day as evident from this video. What do u make from the contrails of the falling jet?



This is the official badge which PAF wears (and so do Turks) in the open and officially. Do you see 2 Indian jets marked as dead? Here you go... now you see 2 jets and here is your answer.

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## Pakistani Fighter

Path-Finder said:


> ah no, if you go back and read all entries for 26/02/19 or 02/26/19 you will see mostly regular members doing the enemies PsyOps work for them.


Well although I became active after 27 Feb here on PDF but I clearly would had been angry here considering how they entered and dropped bombs and were atleast not shot down. IK had said that that Pak wont think it would definitely retaliate but since at the morning time we didnt attacked back (26th morning) I would had assumed we wont do anything as this was the first incident happened in my lifetime full of senses. It was later announced that we would surprise them


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## graphican

Simone said:


> It did self destruct but probably happened at lower height so the burning pile fall off in bulk.
> 
> 
> Did you read the recitation of Veer Chakra given to Abhinandan??
> We need more, in fact lot more real evidence before we come to any conclusion.



Good. While your 'evidence' is being searched - PAF and Pakistan has it in hand, on the chest and symbolised on the monuments.

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## Path-Finder

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Well although I became active after 27 Feb here on PDF but I clearly would had been angry here considering how they entered and dropped bombs and were atleast not shot down. IK had said that that Pak wont think it would definitely retaliate but since at the morning time we didnt attacked back (26th morning) I would had assumed we wont do anything as this was the first incident happened in my lifetime full of senses. It was later announced that we would surprise them


that is NO excuse to start cursing your own side! NO bleeding excuse. Things were not clear firstly and then your own side becomes more emotional than teenage girls. The few seniors kudos to them for their maturity and keeping faith on our side. Some seniors had lost the plot too and ought to be ashamed.

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## Falcon26

Simone said:


> It did self destruct but probably happened at lower height so the burning pile fall off in bulk.
> 
> 
> Did you read the recitation of Veer Chakra given to Abhinandan??
> We need more, in fact lot more real evidence before we come to any conclusion.



the recitation was comical. Indians have never proved how Abhinandan “shot down” the supposed F-16 (all missiles are with Pakistan and are unfired) and they have never proven any evidence for the supposed F-16. That India keeps sticking to both the downed F16 and hundreds of militants dead at Balakot shows how deluded they are. Both Pakistani and independent sources agree that no f-16 was shot down and that Balakot was a failed mission. But Indians continue to repeat both claims because the events of February 26/27 are highly embarrassing for India. The conspiracy theories serve a domestic purpose but have no credibility beyond India.

if you go back to the first pages of this very thread, you will see Indian media reporting through their government that all IAF pilots were accounted for. They only changed their stance once the IAF pilot was presented by Pakistan. How’s that for credibility


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## Taimoor Khan

Simone said:


> Even then if paf fired from 120 km away from LOC, they would come across 10KM in sheer momentum and also the place doesn't have any military installation nearby. Hardly worth the risk.
> As reported by India media, it was an ARRAAM missile that fell off and exploded after loosing track of it's target.



First thing first, you boasted in your ignorance about Pakistan not having reach. Upon getting corrected you are changing the goal post. Pakistan has been developing SOWs for nearly two decades, hitting indian target around 100 km from loc is no issue for PAF this can easily be done with first generation SOWs developed two decades ago. 

PAF didnt target the Indian military installations directly rather "pinged" them. 

India hasn't even admitted that bippin rawat was inside HQ when it was pinged.

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## crankthatskunk

Simone said:


> Thanks for the clip. But it wasn't air strike on Indian military installation.
> 
> They were Indian jets, two Su30MKI to be precise at that moment chased by AMRAAM missiles.



Well, the people said, the jet circled and dropped a bomb, from which the young man was injured. 
They didn't say that a missile came from far distance to chase one of the Indian jets. 
AMRAAM are called AMRAAM for a reason. 
How they injured a villager!!

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## airomerix

Simone said:


> Okay.
> 
> Longer version of the video will unravel the mystery of the second jet shot down.
> People can be heard in the clip saying it's on fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another very interesting video shows multiple BVR missiles being fired. Lets remember Pakistan says only two bvrs fired but at two different Indian jets at different sites of engagement.
> 
> If somebody can explain what's going on in the clip.
> @airomerix @silent_poison



These are just couple of jets turning hot and cold. In a grind. 

No sign of AMRAAMs. An AMRAAM launched would climb into the stratosphere and disappear to the naked eye within a couple of seconds. 

And yes only two AMRAAMs were fired. Otherwise by now the rest of the AMRAAMs may have been recovered. (as per your 5-6 AMRAAM claim)

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## graphican

Simone said:


> Nice. It still hasn't eroded the misconception among many Pakistanis that a Jf17 shot down Su30mki. Let's see if it can do it in future.


We are happy if you name your assassin. For us, JF17 and F16s are two hands of the same body.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

graphican said:


> We are happy if you name your assassin. For us, JF17 and F16s are two hands of the same body.



_Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

- William Shakespeare* (Romeo and Juliet)
_
*We know him as _Shey(k)h Pir_

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## Taimoor Khan

Simone said:


> Why would India admit bippin rawat was inside HQ when it was pinged when he was sitting in Delhi in his North block office ??
> Who spreads these incredible stories?
> Some senior of Norther command were there, but they had left the site before it was targeted near by.



There are reasons why Bippin went in hiding for months in the aftermath of operation swift retort. 

Enjoy!

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/dg-ispr-reminds-bipin-who-gave-him-another-life.646468/


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## Taimoor Khan

Simone said:


> Gen Asif Ghafoor has a habit of doing false propaganda statements without caring for getting caught.
> 
> *Like in this tweet, the 3rd picture is of
> IAF Hawk jet trainer crash in Odisha *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212635696206401536See this 4 yrs old clip of the crash.



All the facts in his statement are true. He said right on the day on 28th feb that Pakistan was not involved in bringing down the Mi17 helicopter and it was the work of Indian forces themselves. It took Indian establishment months to confirm that!!

As for Bippin, he went MIA for months in the aftermath of swift retort. Some reports suggest he was treated in America for his uncontrollable bowl issue, a typical after effect when subjected to bomb shockwave. 

Gen Asif is a very high ranking officer, he just cant make this huge claim that enemy nation army chief life was spared by PAF. Infact, it was all over Pakistani media right in the aftermath of swift retort and he asked at point blank during a press conference where he jokingly side stepped the question.

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## Taimoor Khan

Simone said:


> *Gen Bipin Rawat march 2019
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108031124184264704*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106217715809820679
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110895764971114497




There was a pin drop silence from him, away from his usual non sensical utterances against Pakistan. Month is enough time to get his bowel sorted. 

As I said, this is coming from top of Pakistani military hierarchy, pay heed.

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## Riz

Simone said:


> *Gen Bipin Rawat march 2019
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108031124184264704*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106217715809820679
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110895764971114497


He never spoke for a half month when tension between two countries were on peaks...

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## sonic boom

Simone said:


> What does the need to speak when action speakd Lauder. India demons tatted it's intentions in Balakot strike, that it wont hesitate to cross LoC n strike inside Pakistan if needed.
> 
> After that when tension were at their peak , Gen was on the move and* he visited LoC on 3rd March* to meet the troops on the forward post.
> *
> https://www.wionews.com/india-news/...rd-positions-amidst-tensions-along-loc-200962*


next time cross LOC in your movies

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## Marker

*CITATION DISSECTED*






So the *Indian President* himself finally acknowledges that

1. JF-17 is advanced fourth generation aircraft.
2. PAF possess advanced high calibre air to ground stand-off weapons.
3. PAF aircraft were under seamless airborne radar cover and control in the morning of February 27th 2019.






This is how the story an Indian "hero" pilot progresses:

1. The "hero" pilot was provided with updates on likely air threats flying at very high altitudes.

*Comment*: So IAF situation awareness was not to its full capacity (no AWACS were in air). A nasty surprise from PAF!!!!

2. But he took the initiative to scan the low altitude airspace with his AI radar and picked on PAF aircraft flying low to ambush the Indian fighter interceptor aircraft.

*Comment*: Deadly and successful ambush is always from above, because aircraft gains higher speed while diving down. How did the "hero" pilot ascertain that the PAF aircraft was flying low to *ambush* the Indian fighter interceptor aircraft???? Must be telepathy, after all he is an Indian "hero" 

3. After alerting the other formation pilots towards the surprise threat, our “hero” and his wingman in an offensive formation rushed against the lone PAF aircraft which was then dropping weapons on the Indian Army positions.

*Comments*: Role of the spotted PAF aircraft is suddenly changed. Instead of ambushing the Indian fighter interceptor aircraft, the "hostile" PAF aircraft was found dropping weapons on the Indian Army position.

Earlier, in the citation, it was acknowledge that PAF aircraft were armed with advanced high calibre air to ground stand-off weapons. None of the six targets selected by PAF aircraft for bombing was more than 100 km away from LoC. Then why a lone PAF aircraft was found flying in the airspace of Indian Occupied Kashmir? Or our brave “hero” proceeded courageously to engage the PAF aircraft package with utter disregard to his personal safety, crossed LoC and found a lone PAF aircraft flying low and dropping weapons on IA positions 






*Comments*: Then how PAF aircraft managed to drop bombs on six different “targets”?
No, it was other way around. On the night of February 26, 2019, during so-called "Balakot surgical strike", the audacious and aggressive maneuver by PAF interceptors forced IAF aircraft into tactical chaos. That is why they dropped and jettisoned their precious payload on the trees and rushed back to their side of the territory.

4. Then our "hero" pilot pursued a retreating fighter bomber aircraft, and in the ensuing aerial combat, shot down an F-16 aircraft with his on board missile.

*Comments*: PAF displayed remains of all four on-board missiles of the crashed Mig-21.

When a missile successfully hit the target aircraft directly or its warhead detonates near the target due to proximity fuse, the complete missile is ruptured into pieces and spread in number of kms depending on the height at which the impact occurred, wind heading, the speed and approach direction of the missile and aircraft. It is almost impossible to retrieve the debris of such missile that too in mountainous terrain of Kashmir.

Furthermore all F-16 in PAF inventory were accounted and confirmed by USA. Even Carol Christine Fair (a pro-India American political scientist) in her recent talk in front of Indian military regime acknowledge that no PAF F-16 was shot down by IAF.

5. Finally, in the melee one of the PAF aircraft fired multiple advanced BVR missiles, one of which hit his aircraft forcing him to eject in Pakistani territory.

*Comment*: According to Wikipedia, the kill ratio of AIM-120 is 63.15%. Why a PAF pilot will fire multiple AIM-120 C missiles ($400,000 a piece) to hit a "sitting duck" flying inside Pakistani airspace???

Moral of the story:

"In every lie lies a truth" In short, truth cannot be hidden.

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## Path-Finder

on 26 when india carried out its mal intentions.

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## PakFactor

Path-Finder said:


> on 26 when india carried out its mal intentions.



Lol. Among all this chatter this critical info was lost. It was cloudy.

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## Talon



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## Zarvan

First 250 pages of this thread are most iconic, starting from 26th India's failed attempt which Indians still believe wasn't, to game totally changing very next day around 10 : 00 AM. Man this should be kept saved for years to come. 

@Horus @Path-Finder @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah

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## Talon

The Eagle said:


> Yeah ... rewarded with VC so that he will have to keep quiet and never spill a single word about the episode of that day. Not just that but he had thoughts for the safety of his family as well and nonetheless, Doval met him for reason while keeping safe distance. This VC is given on the basis of a whole bunch of lies and will be treated as a wild deception. It doesn't matter to the Indian Establishment whether there is a proof and a fantasy but as long as something can relate to their own falsified statements, all is well without any fear of shame before the world.
> 
> On other hand; this is exactly what Pakistan is dealing with... an ignorant rival that doesn't care being exposed but will still keep churning the lies. No moral or dignity at all neither any self respect from Modi & Company. Indians who knew that there is no F-16 being shot, will again cursing the day but will have to keep quiet to not to be called traitors.


Maybe someday after his retirement,he will move to any other country and write a book on the events.I am waiting for that day..!

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## nomi007

Hodor said:


> View attachment 602917


please share hd image

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## sonic boom

nomi007 said:


> please share hd image


upscaled image
download link https://i.imgur.com/HsSVFvB.png

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## DANGER-ZONE

sonic boom said:


> upscaled image
> download link https://i.imgur.com/HsSVFvB.png



This is not the HD image ... 
Below one is ... and only the artist can provide it, which happens to be me, thank you ....





*Share it anywhere you like but do credit the artist.*

You can follow my pages as well for more,
https://www.facebook.com/WahajSiddiquiArt
https://wahajsiddiquiart.blogspot.com/

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## NA71

flood social media with this image on 27/2/20 .....anniversary


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## Trailer23

DANGER-ZONE said:


> https://www.facebook.com/WahajSiddiquiArt
> https://wahajsiddiquiart.blogspot.com/


So, you work alongside PAFFalcons...

There are a number of designs on your Facebook, that he's listed on his website.

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## DANGER-ZONE

Trailer23 said:


> So, you work alongside PAFFalcons...
> 
> There are a number of designs on your Facebook, that he's listed on his website.



Used to .... I don't think there anything new from my side on that website / page, anymore.


----------



## Trailer23

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Used to .... I don't think there anything new from my side on that website / page, anymore.


Done some work for myself on DTG & Digital Embroidery - but nothing on a large scale.


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## PakFactor

Path-Finder said:


> apologies in advanced. Abi is forever canonized in vedick ville.
> 
> View attachment 603137



Lol


----------



## MM_Haider

On 27th Feb a video of a downed jet of IAF was circulating on social media which is widely reported as downed IAF jet .. here are some stills .. can some airforce geek confirm if it is really SU30 MKI?


----------



## Flight of falcon

Two different locations :::: old pictures

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## StormBreaker

No, the one below is a jaguar and the one above is Bison



MM_Haider said:


> On 27th Feb a video of a downed jet of IAF was circulating on social media which is widely reported as downed IAF jet .. here are some stills .. can some airforce geek confirm if it is really SU30 MKI?
> View attachment 603262
> View attachment 603263


Two different locations since public in shine pic look like kashmiris while below one should be south India


----------



## Ghost 125

MM_Haider said:


> On 27th Feb a video of a downed jet of IAF was circulating on social media which is widely reported as downed IAF jet .. here are some stills .. can some airforce geek confirm if it is really SU30 MKI?
> View attachment 603262
> View attachment 603263


1st Pic MI 17,,,2nd pic is not kashmir, end of story

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## A.P. Richelieu

As this picture shows, the wingtip of the Su-30MKI is very different.
The second picture shows the BAE Hawk trainer that crashed in March 2018.

At least the OP deserves a negative rating...

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## Imran Khan

nope these are BAE HAWK and MI-17 .


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## MM_Haider

Is this MI17 or SU 30 MKI? All videos were uploaded on 27th Feb. in second last video eye witness is claiming that it was jet not chopper!


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

MM_Haider said:


> Is this MI17 or SU 30 MKI? All videos were uploaded on 27th Feb. in second last video eye witness is claiming that it was jet not chopper!


Mi17V5


----------



## Marker

MM_Haider said:


> Is this MI17 or SU 30 MKI? All videos were uploaded on 27th Feb. in second last video eye witness is claiming that it was jet not chopper!



It is Mi-17.

An Indian Air Force Mi-17.





Another view of wreckage of the MI-17 chopper that crashed in Budgam district of Jammu and Kashmir, Wednesday, February 27, 2019. (PTI file photo)






Some part of Tail # is visible on fuselage tail of unfortunate heli.


----------



## sonic boom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuBLzSlWeP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YAl2sYI3DA


----------



## Marker

sonic boom said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuBLzSlWeP8
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YAl2sYI3DA



Christine Fair – an expert on South Asian political and military – has ruled out the possibility that India had shot down a Pakistani F-16 on February 27, 2019.










AVM RJK Kapoor of IAF said that it has “irrefutable evidence” of F-16s used by PAF on 27 February in the form of electronic signature, radio transcripts and radar images.






He said that radar image showing F-16 electronic signature suddenly disappeared. "Now you see me, now you not". A superb and successful electronic radar jamming.

Since all four missiles were found near debris of shot down Mig-21, shooting of F-16 out of question. 











However, the video shown by IAF must be about shooting down of IAF Su-30MKI by PAF F-16's AIM-120 missile (whose wreckage, they already found). I am sure they can find the debris of the crashed aircraft as well near the place where the video was made.

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## litman

i was brigade major in naushera


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## MM_Haider

Marker said:


> It is Mi-17.
> 
> *An Indian Air Force Mi-17.*
> View attachment 603334
> 
> 
> Another view of wreckage of the MI-17 chopper that crashed in Budgam district of Jammu and Kashmir, Wednesday, February 27, 2019. (PTI file photo)
> 
> View attachment 603335
> 
> Some part of Tail # is visible on fuselage tail of unfortunate heli.


In almost all of the videos eye witnesses were stating first hand account that two pilots were killed and one civilian .. however as per official announcement by IAF there were around 7 officials killed on that fateful day .. SU 30 MKI is twin seater!!!! 

I am just trying trying to establish an open source evidence that SU 30 MKI was scored on 27th Feb.. since there is nothing concrete from PAF.. 

Can someone help me in this regard.. 
all I can find is summarized here..


----------



## sonic boom

MM_Haider said:


> In almost all of the videos eye witnesses were stating first hand account that two pilots were killed and one civilian .. however as per official announcement by IAF there were around 7 officials killed on that fateful day .. SU 30 MKI is twin seater!!!!
> 
> I am just trying trying to establish an open source evidence that SU 30 MKI was scored on 27th Feb.. since there is nothing concrete from PAF..
> 
> Can someone help me in this regard..
> all I can find is summarized here..


1st video logon ne thori post ki hy yeh full video nahi hy rahul kah raha tha ky "F-16 shot down".....a su-30MKI was chasing a f-16 in noushera sector logon ny yeh samjha ke jesy F-16 ne Su-30MKI ko destroy kiya ho logon ny puri bat suny bina he yeh video upload kar di......
2nd clip Mi-17 Helicopter ka hy budgam se...


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## MM_Haider

sonic boom said:


> 1st video logon ne thori post ki hy yeh full video nahi hy rahul kah raha tha ky "F-16 shot down".....a su-30MKI was chasing a f-16 in noushera sector logon ny yeh samjha ke jesy F-16 ne Su-30MKI ko destroy kiya ho logon ny puri bat suny bina he yeh video upload kar di......
> 2nd clip Mi-17 Helicopter ka hy budgam se...


apart from the panic in Indian media and lies regarding F16 Kill.. 
this whole discussion (especially 1:23 to 2:00) specifically claims that it was NOT Mi17 but a JET..

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## Windjammer

@The Eagle @waz

Stray is back again.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Banna said:


> *An Indian voggler had made this videos explaining outcome of above two videos, Of course with added hypotheses of his own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Largest Air Battle since the Korean War, LOL.
What about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19 ?


----------



## Marker

Banna said:


> *An Indian voggler had made this videos explaining outcome of above two videos, Of course with added hypotheses of his own.*



When ever you claim your win, you have to come up with a solid proof, not fake "hypothesis". This is an utter disgrace to the word *hypothesis.

Videos Dissected*

In the citation issued by Indian President while awarding Vir Chakra to Wing Commander Varathaman Abhinandan, he (Indian President) himself acknowledge that

1. PAF aircraft were armed with advanced BVR air to air missiles and advanced high caliber air to ground stand-off weapons.

2. PAF aircraft were under seamless airborne radar cover and control.

How an F-16 equipped with AIM-120Cs and having an absolute situational awareness, by turning away from the approaching Mig-21, become a prey instead of hunter in a scenario where situation is 100% in favor of F-16? What an absurd hypothesis. 

If the video clip showing white smoke trail in the sky was captured on 27 February, 2019 at around 10 am, then it could be due to falling debris of unfortunate IAF Su-30MKI shot down by PAF F-16.

I can draw another version of silhouette showing Su-30MKI debris coming down.





Furthermore, PAF already produced all four missiles attached to the crashed Mig-21. You can find photographs of four missiles debris in my post #8786. As no missile was fired from Abhinandan's Mig-21, therefore shooting down an F-16 is out of question, however, the video clip shown can be used as a proof of shooting down of IAF Su-30MKI by PAF F-16.

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## Dazzler

Banna said:


> *An Indian voggler had made this videos explaining outcome of above two videos, Of course with added hypotheses of his own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Sorry mate, not buying. 

Go sleep

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## airomerix

Banna said:


> Feeling sleepy, so i would make this simple point.
> PaF fighters were taken by surprise when four mig 21 entered the melee ,especially two mig-21 that took off from Srinagar airbase,* because these two Mig21s (Abhi's) rose from the shadow of Pir Panjal Range unbeknown to PAF on the opposite site of mountain range.*



What plethora of bullshit. 

All 4 Migs belonged to 51 sqn. So your crap becomes crap there and then. 

And 8 F-16s were more than aware of the migs taking off and entering the fight. Wg Cmdr Nouman was waiting for the fool to enter Pakistan and he did before getting shot down. So what surprise are you even talking about?

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## Myth_buster_1

MM_Haider said:


> On 27th Feb a video of a downed jet of IAF was circulating on social media which is widely reported as downed IAF jet .. here are some stills .. can some airforce geek confirm if it is really SU30 MKI?
> View attachment 603262
> View attachment 603263



NO this is not Su-30!
First pic is Mi-17 and the other one is a BAE HAWK!



Banna said:


> Feeling sleepy, so i would make this simple point.
> PaF fighters were taken by surprise when four mig 21 entered the melee ,especially two mig-21 that took off from Srinagar airbase,* because these two Mig21s (Abhi's) rose from the shadow of Pir Panjal Range unbeknown to PAF on the opposite site of mountain range.*



What makes you think PAF F-16s were in a dog fight at all when they were using AMRAAM beyond 50KM from LOC! And even if they were in a dogfight why would they remain in same place and wait for ABHI G to arrive to the party just so that he could shoot one of the F-16 down? 
These Indiot stories keep getting lamer and lamer. 
Not a single missile was fired by him and these indiots still living in imaginary world.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> 
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.


Well maybe Abhi was late. The mission was successful as assets were back in Pak's airspace. Maybe SU 30 was threatening our strike jets so had to take it down


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## Myth_buster_1

Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> 
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.



Abhi was "TRAPPED"! F-16s set up air ambush so when he flys in PAK airspace he would be shot down and they will have his plane wreckage along with captured pilot that they would parade infront of the world.

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## Dazzler

Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> 
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.



Erieye crew was having tea right? They shared some with Abhi later.

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## PakFactor

Banna said:


> Feeling sleepy, so i would make this simple point.
> PaF fighters were taken by surprise when four mig 21 entered the melee ,especially two mig-21 that took off from Srinagar airbase,* because these two Mig21s (Abhi's) rose from the shadow of Pir Panjal Range unbeknown to PAF on the opposite site of mountain range.*



What garage analysis is that — their were no surprises for PAF rather your whole Northern Command was caught pants down.

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## masterchief_mirza

Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> 
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.


Why. The. Hell.....

Why the hell would we shoot IAF in Indian airspace when no state of war exists between pk and India?

We knew an IAF pilot would have a Bollywood induced brain fahrt and inevitably chase one of us into pk airspace, where we shot him down easily, on our terms, and with complete and irrefutable legal justification to do so. A decisive PR victory.

This is simply the most legally sound way to shoot you down. Certainly, we could shoot you over India, china, Africa or anywhere you wish, but if we know full well you will enter our airspace in a compromised position, why wouldn't we wait for that?

Indeed, the previous night's encounter tells you more on this exact matter. PAF refused to take the bait and chase IAF into India because we knew full well it was like walking into a trap.

How much more egg on your face can you get than walking into the same trap you tried but failed to spring on PAF the day before??

I am of the belief that PAF planned for the nandu shoot down but managed to bag a su30 as a bonus when the opportunity presented itself and evolving roe permitted this additional kill.

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## Bratva

Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> 
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.


 

F-16 were flying at 30-40 K feets. How can they get get surprised from a low flying aircraft which they can see on their radars clearly ?

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## Marker

Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.



PAF F-16 fired its AIM-120C to shoot down IAF Su-30MKI as soon as the IAF aircraft crossed the LoC and entered Pakistani airspace. However, when Su-30MKI received missile warning on the cockpit console, it turned back but got hit as soon as it crossed LoC and thus its wreckage along with the debris of AIM-120C had fallen inside Indian occupied Kashmir.

*Fact#1*: Indians already displayed the debris of AIM-120C.
*Fact#2*: The video clip shown during briefing by AVM RJK Kapoor of IAF was filmed somewhere near Thanamandi about 25 kms inside Indian occupied Kashmir. The clip reveals white smoke trail of an aircraft. The outline of silhouette around the smoke trail is of Su-30MKI!!!

None of the four IAF Mig-21 aircraft dared to cross LoC except Abhinandan's Mig-21. Due to successful electronic jamming by PAF EW aircraft flying nearby, it was Abhinandan who was caught by surprise!!!

He was unable to communicate with his wingman and Air Defence Controller. This fact he acknowledged during his debriefing in Pakistan. He said "communication mein bhaut shoor ho raha tha aur kuch sunai nahi de raha tha" (or words to that effect).

In his recorded statement in Pakistan he said that he was looking for the target but instead he got shot down inside the Pakistani territory.

Refer following post for video link for Abhinandan's complete recorded statement.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/a-se...nts-by-abhinandan.648991/page-3#post-12066944

After seeing all four missiles intact with the crashed Mig-21, even an average intelligent person can understand that shooting down of F-16 is a fake news. However shooting down of IAF Su-30MKI is the FACT.

*Accept it and don't drag on for too long for nothing.*

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## airomerix

Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> 
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.



Funny boy.


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## ziaulislam

Fac


Banna said:


> *Two from Srinagar and two from Awantipur.*
> 
> If F-16 can fire AMRAAMs at Su30 flying deep within indian airspace, what stopped them from shooting down Abhi's Mig21 before it entered miles into pakistani airspace ?? The fact they were caught by surprise, that is the reason of their late reaction.


Facts that were accepted by india
1. IAF was jammed (abhi aircraft)
2. IAF was outrange by PAF (may explain why india deescalated) by aim120
3. F16s are superior to su30 or anything IAF has (see print article stating this and fact that IAF has to scramble more than 1 fighter for this reason)
4. IAF got confused and murdered 6 of its own people in a chopper
5. IAF was blind as they were NO AWECs nor IAF can field any
6. IAF lacks a secure connection

Partially accepted facts
1. We might have missed targets (in wake of seeing clear satellite images) we arent suppose to count the dead


Now any one can add 1+1 by looking at the above 6 points ..are you suggesting that someone who is outranged and outgun jammed and blind shot down a f16? ..simply illogical



Banna said:


> Feeling sleepy, so i would make this simple point.
> PaF fighters were taken by surprise when four mig 21 entered the melee ,especially two mig-21 that took off from Srinagar airbase,* because these two Mig21s (Abhi's) rose from the shadow of Pir Panjal Range unbeknown to PAF on the opposite site of mountain range.*


Are you saying your airforce is lying that mig21 were jammed?

Because if indeed mig21 was jammed and blinded than who was surprised is pretty obvious

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## sonic boom

Marker said:


> When ever you claim your win, you have to come up with a solid proof, not fake "hypothesis". This is an utter disgrace to the word *hypothesis.
> 
> Videos Dissected*
> 
> In the citation issued by Indian President while awarding Vir Chakra to Wing Commander Varathaman Abhinandan, he (Indian President) himself acknowledge that
> 
> 1. PAF aircraft were armed with advanced BVR air to air missiles and advanced high caliber air to ground stand-off weapons.
> 
> 2. PAF aircraft were under seamless airborne radar cover and control.
> 
> How an F-16 equipped with AIM-120Cs and having an absolute situational awareness, by turning away from the approaching Mig-21, become a prey instead of hunter in a scenario where situation is 100% in favor of F-16? What an absurd hypothesis.
> 
> If the video clip showing white smoke trail in the sky was captured on 27 February, 2019 at around 10 am, then it could be due to falling debris of unfortunate IAF Su-30MKI shot down by PAF F-16.
> 
> I can draw another version of silhouette showing Su-30MKI debris coming down.
> 
> View attachment 603677​
> Furthermore, PAF already produced all four missiles attached to the crashed Mig-21. You can find photographs of four missiles debris in my post #8786. As no missile was fired from Abhinandan's Mig-21, therefore shooting down an F-16 is out of question, however, the video clip shown can be used as a proof of shooting down of IAF Su-30MKI by PAF F-16.


yeh video IOK "Thanamandi" sector ki hy yeh na mig-21 hy na MI-17 helicopter yeh Su-30MKI hy

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## Bratva

Banna said:


> This mystery of this tadpole shaped structure must be solved to come to any conclusion in face of counter claims. What is not under doubt is
> that tadpole is of a burning jet going down on 27th feb. In this video people can heard saying it's on fire.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Not all F-16 were flying at 30-40 K feets. S*ome were flying low to lodge LBGs at Indian positions along the LoC.* Yes, the F-16 that was flying at high altitude ultimately shot dowm Abhi's Mig 21.
> 
> 
> Su30 crossing LoC and then turning back ?? That's new argument.
> Why would Su30 have to cross LoC to engage and tackle PAF jets when Su30s are armed with BVR missile and long range radar ?
> 
> 
> 
> *Fact*. *In* *This video shot in Thanamandi*, *the burning jet is going towards the Pakistani side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> There was no jamming expect his communication wasn't secure . India has now bought new Israeli kits for secto be installed on mig 21s.
> 
> 1. No, India didn't say Mig21 was jammed.
> 
> 2. *Remember that Abhi's Wingman also operated in the same environment and safely came back after dislodging AMRAAM fired at him.*
> 
> 3. No, Iaf didnt say F-16s are better than Su30s.
> F-16 had advantage in the sense, they fired the BVR first violating peacetime ROE. By the time Su30 dislodged Bvr missiles, all F-16 have gone back deep inside Pakistan and hence Su30 couldn't get firing solutions.
> 
> *Its for experts to determine. But that tadpole is small and narrow in shape to be created by Su30 size jet*





Who says F-16 Lodged LGB? Where is the proof that F-16 were flying low altitude? Are you living under the rock or what ?


----------



## dilpakistani

Banna said:


> *Read this :*
> 
> *IAF to destroy unexploded bombs fired by Pakistan after Balakot airstrikes
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-jammu-and-kashmir-mendhar-1492389-2019-04-02*
> 
> *Pakistan ke 'fush' bomb near Mendha*r


hahaah they are marter bombs... they aren't fired from airforce


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## graphican

Banna said:


> *Read this :*
> 
> *IAF to destroy unexploded bombs fired by Pakistan after Balakot airstrikes
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-jammu-and-kashmir-mendhar-1492389-2019-04-02*
> 
> *Pakistan ke 'fush' bomb near Mendha*r



These are Mortar. They are fired by the army, not by the airforce, you morons.

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## Bratva

Banna said:


> *Three live bombs fired by Pakistani fighter aircraft are still lying at LoC
> 
> https://theprint.in/defence/three-l...ghter-aircraft-are-still-lying-at-loc/215825/*



Where does it say, F-16 Fired LGB bombs ? Do you even know what is an H-4 SOW and which aircraft fires it ?



Banna said:


> *Read this :*
> 
> *IAF to destroy unexploded bombs fired by Pakistan after Balakot airstrikes
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-jammu-and-kashmir-mendhar-1492389-2019-04-02*
> 
> *Pakistan ke 'fush' bomb near Mendha*r



Bro why spend so much time debating when you can learn a thing or two by googling about stuff that you don't know ?

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## Maarkhoor

Banna said:


> You are nitpicking between LGBs and H-4 SOW.
> The truth is those *two Mig21 vectored and flew towards that particular sector* as there were F-16s were crossing LoC in their attempt to drop guided munition on Indian installations.


@DESERT FIGHTER @Areesh @waz 

Guess who joins us *again* 



Bratva said:


> Who says F-16 Lodged LGB? Where is the proof that F-16 were flying low altitude? Are you living under the rock or what ?


Don't waste your time on a multi I.D troll who can't distinguish between BOMBS and SOW....


----------



## Bilal.

Banna said:


> You are nitpicking between LGBs and H-4 SOW.
> The truth is those *two Mig21 vectored and flew towards that particular sector* as there were F-16s were crossing LoC in their attempt to drop guided munition on Indian installations.



You are showing mortars as proof of LGB being defused and when called out for it you are calling it nitpicking ? Lol

And forget the fantasy BS just tell us when all four AAM of Abhinondone’s mig21 have been shown (not some mortars...lol) what did he shoot the F16 with?


----------



## NA71

latest article:

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/assessment-of-indias-balakot-raid-aftermath-future-implications/


----------



## sonic boom

Banna said:


> *Read this :*
> 
> *IAF to destroy unexploded bombs fired by Pakistan after Balakot airstrikes
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-jammu-and-kashmir-mendhar-1492389-2019-04-02*
> 
> *Pakistan ke 'fush' bomb near Mendha*r


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## PakFactor

Some body ban that worthless Gangu lol
It’s amazing what he’s coming up with to cover their incompetence.


----------



## ziaulislam

Banna said:


> This mystery of this tadpole shaped structure must be solved to come to any conclusion in face of counter claims. What is not under doubt is
> that tadpole is of a burning jet going down on 27th feb. In this video people can heard saying it's on fire.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Not all F-16 were flying at 30-40 K feets. S*ome were flying low to lodge LBGs at Indian positions along the LoC.* Yes, the F-16 that was flying at high altitude ultimately shot dowm Abhi's Mig 21.
> 
> 
> Su30 crossing LoC and then turning back ?? That's new argument.
> Why would Su30 have to cross LoC to engage and tackle PAF jets when Su30s are armed with BVR missile and long range radar ?
> 
> 
> 
> *Fact*. *In* *This video shot in Thanamandi*, *the burning jet is going towards the Pakistani side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> There was no jamming expect his communication wasn't secure . India has now bought new Israeli kits for secto be installed on mig 21s.
> 
> 1. No, India didn't say Mig21 was jammed.
> 
> 2. *Remember that Abhi's Wingman also operated in the same environment and safely came back after dislodging AMRAAM fired at him.*
> 
> 3. No, Iaf didnt say F-16s are better than Su30s.
> F-16 had advantage in the sense, they fired the BVR first violating peacetime ROE. By the time Su30 dislodged Bvr missiles, all F-16 have gone back deep inside Pakistan and hence Su30 couldn't get firing solutions.
> 
> *Its for experts to determine. But that tadpole is small and narrow in shape to be created by Su30 size jet*


Sorry i didnt know you were taking about indonesian airforce
As indian airforce clearly said there jet was jammed


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## Dil Pakistan

Banna said:


> Feeling sleepy, so i would make this simple point.
> PaF fighters were taken by surprise when four mig 21 entered the melee ,especially two mig-21 that took off from Srinagar airbase,* because these two Mig21s (Abhi's) rose from the shadow of Pir Panjal Range unbeknown to PAF on the opposite site of mountain range.*



You are right....there were lots of surprises on that morning, and since then.

PAF shot down Abhi-nonedone in an absolute surprise.
IAF shot its own heli - again in a complete surprise.
IAF has stood down since then - to avoid any more surprises.
IAF does not come close to 100-kms on Indian side of Pakistan border since 27th Feb - does not want any more surprises.

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## ziaulislam

sonic boom said:


>


Bollywood indians vs logical near extinction indians

Pakistani running after indian attack






Vs logical (now near extinction)


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## Myth_buster_1

Banna said:


> *Read this :*
> 
> *IAF to destroy unexploded bombs fired by Pakistan after Balakot airstrikes
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-jammu-and-kashmir-mendhar-1492389-2019-04-02*
> 
> *Pakistan ke 'fush' bomb near Mendha*r



These are motar rounds you dork!


----------



## PakFactor

@waz

Please permanent ban that Banna clown for good.


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## Myth_buster_1

Banna said:


> *Three live bombs fired by Pakistani fighter aircraft are still lying at LoC
> 
> https://theprint.in/defence/three-l...ghter-aircraft-are-still-lying-at-loc/215825/*



India could claim PAF launched nuclear weapons at India but they all failed to explode and this indiot will believe it.



Banna said:


> You are nitpicking between LGBs and H-4 SOW.
> The truth is those *two Mig21 vectored and flew towards that particular sector* as there were F-16s were crossing LoC in their attempt to drop guided munition on Indian installations.



Their is a big difference between H4 which are long range and are only carried by Mirages and JF-17 while LGB are short range.



PakFactor said:


> @waz
> 
> Please permanent ban that Banna clown for good.



Once in a while we will have indiot rats escape from Bha-rat raksaw form and pollute this form with their same old nonsense which has been debated a million times with same result in India's embarrassment.



Banna said:


> it's good to know that u believe what Indian aircheif and media say. The same article says he shot down a f-16.
> 
> Also no where iaf cheif says India jets were jammed in 27th feb conflict. All he said they were buying new radio sets that would provide for secure communication.
> 
> *The fact that Abhi's wingman returned safely after paying heed to ground control suggest, jamming wasn't effective.*



The poster was just trying to prove a point that IAF fighter's communication were jammed and thats why India had to run around after the incident to fix the problem. 
IAF cheif was caught pants down when they invited anti-pakistan lady who exposed India's lies.
NO F-16 shot down
And Balakot strike was unsuccessful. 

And Lol Indiot Air force officials are using "Twitter" posts for their presentation and did not provide anything from IAF resources.

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## Windjammer

Banna said:


> it's good to know that u believe what Indian aircheif and media say. The same article says he shot down a f-16.
> 
> Also no where iaf cheif says India jets were jammed in 27th feb conflict. All he said they were buying new radio sets that would provide for secure communication.
> 
> *The fact that Abhi's wingman returned safely after paying heed to ground control suggest, jamming wasn't effective.*


Adopting more fake IDs doesn't mean your brain multiplies....there's something called knowledge which you obviously lack.

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## Pak-Canuck

Myth_buster_1 said:


>



1:47:05, where the fun starts, with a heavy desi uncle accent , "Chhriisssstiiiiiiinnnnnneeeeee"

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## ziaulislam

Banna said:


> it's good to know that u believe what Indian aircheif and media say. The same article says he shot down a f-16.
> 
> Also no where iaf cheif says India jets were jammed in 27th feb conflict. All he said they were buying new radio sets that would provide for secure communication.
> 
> *The fact that Abhi's wingman returned safely after paying heed to ground control suggest, jamming wasn't effective.*


So you agree with my 6 points posted above

Good..some logic still remains in the world

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## dilpakistani

Banna said:


> *Three live bombs fired by Pakistani fighter aircraft are still lying at LoC
> 
> https://theprint.in/defence/three-l...ghter-aircraft-are-still-lying-at-loc/215825/*


nevertheless this article suggests that it was an unsuccessful attempt but contrary to that Pakistan airforce has provided video evidence of last minute control over their weapons and redirecting them in to open spaces. in a nutshell without taking anything away from indian airforce. Pakistan airforce delivered on to the following political objectives successfully.
1. Retaliate in an abstract manner to give a clear message to India that we are not deterred. 
2. Show them that we too have matching capability to inflict serious damage if we would want to. 

In ground attack and air to air fight PAF had decisively achieved these two objectives.

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## Ultima Thule

dilpakistani said:


> nevertheless this article suggests that it was an unsuccessful attempt but contrary to that Pakistan airforce has provided video evidence of last minute control over their weapons and redirecting them in to open spaces. in a nutshell without taking anything away from indian airforce. Pakistan airforce delivered on to the following political objectives successfully.
> 1. Retaliate in an abstract manner to give a clear message to India that we are not deterred.
> 2. Show them that we too have matching capability to inflict serious damage if we would want to.
> 
> In ground attack and air to air fight PAF had decisively achieved these two objectives.


ignore @Banna bro his source is Indian as usual, and the whole world know what happened at 26/27 Feb

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

dilpakistani said:


> nevertheless this article suggests that it was an unsuccessful attempt but contrary to that Pakistan airforce has *provided video evidence of last minute contro*l over their weapons and redirecting them in to open spaces. in a nutshell without taking anything away from indian airforce. Pakistan airforce delivered on to the following political objectives successfully.
> 1. Retaliate in an abstract manner to give a clear message to India that we are not deterred.
> 2. Show them that we too have matching capability to inflict serious damage if we would want to.
> 
> In ground attack and air to air fight PAF had decisively achieved these two objectives.



Mind sending me a link to such video? I wasn't aware we had released any such material.


----------



## PakFactor

dilpakistani said:


> nevertheless this article suggests that it was an unsuccessful attempt but contrary to that Pakistan airforce has provided video evidence of last minute control over their weapons and redirecting them in to open spaces. in a nutshell without taking anything away from indian airforce. Pakistan airforce delivered on to the following political objectives successfully.
> 1. Retaliate in an abstract manner to give a clear message to India that we are not deterred.
> 2. Show them that we too have matching capability to inflict serious damage if we would want to.
> 
> In ground attack and air to air fight PAF had decisively achieved these two objectives.



Reading that article you linked it showed so much malice towards Pakistan and it’ would be surprising if anyone took what the Arthur wrote seriously.


----------



## HRK

PurAzamBaHadaf said:


> Mind sending me a link to such video? I wasn't aware we had released any such material.


from 6:00 min onward

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## sonic boom

@War Thunder can you upscale PAF air Strike footage plz?


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## Windjammer



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## HawkEye27



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## sonic boom

Windjammer said:


>


woooooooot??? hassan sadiqui shot down mig bison? and nouman khan su-30MKI ???



HawkEye27 said:


> View attachment 604191
> View attachment 604192
> View attachment 604193


please post HD pics

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## Trailer23

sonic boom said:


> woooooooot??? hassan sadiqui shot down mig bison? and nouman khan su-30MKI ???


Its the other way around.

Wng Cdr. Nouman Ali Khan actually shot down Abhi-Nando's MiG-21 (Bison).

And Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui got the Su-30MKi.

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## Path-Finder

anniversary is almost here and the topic is still not gone cold.

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## PakFactor

Path-Finder said:


> anniversary is almost here and the topic is still not gone cold.



As we get closer Gangu media will go on a massive dis information spree. Lol


----------



## War Thunder

sonic boom said:


> @War Thunder can you upscale PAF air Strike footage plz?




Which one bro?
Give me a link


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## sonic boom

War Thunder said:


> Which one bro?
> Give me a link














War Thunder said:


> Which one bro?
> Give me a link


Narian wali ho jae to maza aa jay


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## War Thunder

sonic boom said:


> Narian wali ho jae to maza aa jay




Ok give me a few days and I'll do something about them.
Do remind incase I don't respond.

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## sonic boom

War Thunder said:


> Ok give me a few days and I'll do something about them.
> Do remind incase I don't respond.


Thanks


----------



## sonic boom



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## Windjammer



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## Windjammer

@sonic boom , can you check the Indian military installation on Google to see if the images have been updated.

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## Zowais

Anyone got full access/details about this?? 
Image source:



https://www.globalvillagespace.com/magazine/

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## HawkEye27



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## Trailer23

I'm ordering it as soon as I get home.


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## Trailer23

*




*
*Assessment of India’s Balakot raid, aftermath & future implications*

*GVS's Editor Strategic Affairs analyses how the Indian strategic community has been debating how to establish a "New Norm" in South Asia. The Balakot raid, after a manufactured Pulwama wound, was a serious attempt in that direction; it failed because of a new assertive government in Islamabad, but more will follow.*​
Shahid Raza - February 6, 2020




_Indian strategic community – influenced by actions of Israel and the United States in the Middle East – has been debating how to establish a “New Norm” in South Asia. For India to emerge as the unquestioned rival of China in the East, it has to achieve a submissive Pakistan. Balakot Raid, after a manufactured Pulwama wound, was a serious attempt in that direction; it failed because of a new assertive government in Islamabad, but more will follow – analyses GVS’s Editor Strategic Affairs_

In February last year, India’s Hindu nationalist government led by Prime Minister Modi decided to rally their vote bank before the election. Historically, BJP’s anti-Pakistan rhetoric during election campaigns was considered a key political instrument.

This time, however, the BJP decided to take it a step further by opting for a ‘limited’ military adventure against Pakistan. In order to achieve this, the Modi regime blamed Pakistan for the Pulwama attack, without any evidence – and despite an offer for a joint investigation from Prime Minister Imran Khan.

This led many analysts to conclude that the attack in Pulwama was what is known as a ‘false flag event’, a casus belli manufactured to justify military aggression.

The stage was thus set for India and Pakistan – two South Asian Nuclear powers to come face to face after 1971. The global powers intervened and tried to defuse the situation; however, Prime Minister Modi rejected such offers of mediation and decided in favor of military escalation against Pakistan.

*The Escalation
*
On February 26th, the Indian attack culminated in an airstrike carried out by 12 Indian Air Force Mirage-2000 aircraft that dropped the Israeli made Spice-2000 precision-guided bombs on a hilltop located in the Pakistani town of Balakot.

On the following morning of February 27th – Pakistan Air Force struck back in Jammu by dropping precision-guided, standoff munitions at the Indian Army’s Brigade Headquarters located in Jammu along with other targets of military importance.

In an attempt to intercept the Pakistani fighter jets, the Indian Air Force scrambled its aircraft, one of which – a Mig-21 Bison of the No. 51 Squadron was shot down inside Pakistani airspace; its pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan was captured and later returned to India. Simmering tensions marred the following weeks.

Brief exchanges of fire continued at the Line of Control, Pakistan intercepted an Indian Scorpion-class submarine in the Arabian Sea, and there was a credible threat of Indian cruise missile attacks in Pakistan – which were successfully deterred by Pakistan

*Mapping International Reaction
*
Ever since the end of the cold war, the Indian deep state sought to pitch India to the Western powers as a counterweight to China.

For this purpose, India aggressively carried out diplomacy in the 90s and aligned itself closely with the West after 9/11. India liberalized its markets in the early 90s, paving the way for vast amounts of western investments in Indian. Consequently, India strengthened its diplomatic relations by leveraging its consumer markets.




​Indian has also carried out extensive lobbying efforts against Pakistan in the western capitals to damage Pakistan’s international standing and to reduce the economic and military support Pakistan received from the West, especially from the United States.

In this context, it becomes imperative for India to accurately map international reactions – should it go to war with Pakistan. In February last year, Indian leaders felt that the entire global power system could not ignore India and would have no choice but to support India against Pakistan, should India chose to exercise its military options.

Indian leadership wanted to gauge how the international community would react in case of an Indian attack on Pakistan, especially reactions from major Western capitals such as Washington DC, Berlin, London, and Paris.




The Indian deep state was also interested in finding out whether other major powers such as China and Russia would maintain neutrality or pick sides in such a conflict. Another critical consideration for the Indian deep state was to measure the reaction of Muslim powers such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia, etc.

That is so because the Modi government has been actively engaging those Muslim countries through trade and diplomacy and by inviting their investments into the Indian economy – to drive them away from Pakistan, thus denying wartime support to Islamabad from its Muslim allies.

In short, Indian deep state had to test the effectiveness of Modi’s ‘isolate Pakistan’ policy to determine its extent and efficacy and whether Pakistan would receive any international support should India chose to attack Pakistan.

*Pakistan’s Internal Political Landscape
*
The Indian deep state felt that Pakistan was left politically divided after the elections in 2018. From India’s perspective, Pakistan’s political parties were so divided that they would not support Imran Khan’s government against India.

This miscalculation may have contributed to the decision making in Delhi in the planning phases of the Balakot airstrike. New Delhi maintained cordial relations with the former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif for years and saw him as a ‘safer option’ who not only remained passive towards India but also actively subverted Pakistan’s military.

New Delhi saw Imran Khan as a destabilizing factor who was close to Pakistan’s powerful military and remained unpredictable.

The Indian decision to attack Balakot, just a few months into Khan’s government, can be seen as an attempt to undermine and delegitimize him by making him look weak to the Pakistani nation.

The Indian policy planners were working under the assumption that Khan was inexperienced and a pacifist, therefore he would be unable to offer equivocal retaliation against Indian militarism.

It is to be seen as a calculated gambit that would have served desired objectives, had Khan been reluctant to offer military reprisals on the following day. It would not only have undermined his government but would also have damaged Pakistan’s deterrence.

*Will the Military Fight for Imran Khan?
*
India saw Imran Khan’s government as a threat to Indian supremacy in South Asia because the Khan administration effectively neutralized the civil-military imbalance in Pakistan.

All of a sudden, the Pakistani military and the government united behind aggressive policies on Kashmir, Afghanistan, CPEC, and the Middle East. India saw it as an undoing of its strategic interests in Afghanistan, Chahbahar port in Iran, and the Indian Ocean region.

The Indian deep state desired to find out whether the synergy between Pakistan’s civil-military leadership was a credible threat or a deception created by Pakistan. They wanted to see if the Pakistani military would actually be willing to fight on Imran Khan’s orders.

The outcome of this exercise would help India understand the depth of Pakistan’s civil-military relations, which has been anathema for Pakistan for the past many decades.

*Does Imran Khan Control Nuclear Weapons?*

Widespread confusion over Pakistan’s Nuclear Command and Control (C2) in India had to be addressed. There was a widespread belief in Indian strategic circles that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif did not exercise any actual control over the deployment of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons.

The Indian deep state wanted to determine, whether the change of guard in Islamabad also meant a change in Pakistan’s Nuclear Command and Control – especially if the Prime Minister Imran Khan was in actual control of the nuclear weapons deployment in case of a shooting war with India.

It is to address this aspect that the Prime Minister summoned a meeting of the National Command Authority. Further signaling was carried out during Prime Minister’s interviews with foreign television channels, effectively communicating that Prime Minister Imran Khan has the so-called ‘Nuclear Football’ at his disposal.

*Gauging Pakistan’s Military Preparedness
*
Indian military feels that the Pakistani military’s conventional warfighting capability has drastically been reduced as it has been engaged in counterinsurgency operations ever since 9/11.

The Pakistan military has seen degradation and depletion in its war stocks and serviceability over the past two decades due to ongoing operations.

As per Indian military thinking, this has turned Pakistan’s military into a police force – which is incapable of fighting a long, drawn-out, daggers drawn war. In this context, the Indian military was ‘taking a dip’ of the Pakistani military preparedness in Balakot.




It was trying to determine reaction time, strategies, deployment patterns, and other steps Pakistan would take to manage escalation dynamics with India.

It was also trying to assess the capabilities Pakistan has recently acquired and the impact on the battlefield dynamics, such as the F-16 C/D Block-52+ aircraft, AMRAAM Missiles, Air Borne Early Warning aircraft, and the capabilities of Pakistan’s upgraded radar and air defense network.

India also challenged Pakistan on the ground at the LOC as well as at sea by deploying its submarine which was detected and intercepted successfully by Pakistan Navy. This was done to gauge Pakistan’s military preparedness across all domains, perhaps for a larger conflict in the future.

*Validating Cold Start
*
Ever since the early 2000s, the Indian military has been developing a ‘non-nuclear’ military doctrine known as the ‘Cold Start Doctrine’. This doctrine revolves around the development of the so-called ‘Integrated Battle Groups’ made up of various Strike Corps of Indian Armed Forces.

The objective of the Cold Start doctrine is to inflict a quick and decisive military defeat on Pakistan through shock and awe tactics under 72 hours, without provoking a nuclear reaction from Pakistan.

The Balakot raid was a litmus test for India’s inter-services synergy because this episode tested the fundamental parameters of tactical levels of escalation between Pakistan and India – thus validating certain aspects of the Cold Start doctrine.

The Balakot airstrikes were a calculated action to determine Pakistan’s political, military, economic, and diplomatic preparedness, which would play a decisive role in a Cold Start scenario. India desired to test Pakistan’s preparedness and decision-making levels, ranging from non-linear engagement, all the way to strategic escalation.




India also had an opportunity to look into its own shortcomings and weaknesses to identify areas where improvements can be made. It is evident from the shopping spree; the Indian military has been on since the Balakot showdown.

To conclude, the Balakot episode – although it didn’t turn out as planned for India will create a larger conflict in the future. This author believes that the Balakot episode was a litmus test for the Indian military in which they tested their concepts and preparedness in a controlled environment and also assessed Pakistan’s preparedness levels.

Empowered by the Hindu fascist government in Delhi, and equipped with a fresh understanding of the battlefield dynamics, the belligerent Indian generals shall embark upon their next large scale militaristic adventure against Pakistan.

_Shahid Raza is Editor Strategic Affairs at GVS. He serves as the Director of Geopolitical Research at Command Eleven. He is also a Policy Consultant and a writer who conducts independent research and analysis for Katehon Think Tank, Sputnik Radio International, and the Geopolitica Russia. _
_
https://www.globalvillagespace.com/assessment-of-indias-balakot-raid-aftermath-future-implications/
_
_@Windjammer_​_@Horus @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @dbc @Aamir Hussain @waz
@airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @ARMalik @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @I S I @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @Knuckles @loanranger @maximuswarrior @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @Pakhtoon yum @Path-Finder @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @War Thunder @ziaulislam @PakSword @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan_

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## Pakistani Fighter

[QUOTE="Trailer23, post: 12083099, member: ]





[/QUOTE]​Bro I think there is a mistake here. India has about 11 destroyers in service not 1 and their 4 most advanced ones are under construction
Also India has about 4.5k+ Tanks

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## sonic boom

*Pakistani Jets Over Indian Military Installations (UPSCALED Clear Video: Plz Watch In 1440p)*






@War Thunder bhai try karen agar wo uper di hui video es sy zayda clear ho saky to

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## Irfan Baloch

Trailer23 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Assessment of India’s Balakot raid, aftermath & future implications*
> 
> *GVS's Editor Strategic Affairs analyses how the Indian strategic community has been debating how to establish a "New Norm" in South Asia. The Balakot raid, after a manufactured Pulwama wound, was a serious attempt in that direction; it failed because of a new assertive government in Islamabad, but more will follow.*​
> Shahid Raza - February 6, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Indian strategic community – influenced by actions of Israel and the United States in the Middle East – has been debating how to establish a “New Norm” in South Asia. For India to emerge as the unquestioned rival of China in the East, it has to achieve a submissive Pakistan. Balakot Raid, after a manufactured Pulwama wound, was a serious attempt in that direction; it failed because of a new assertive government in Islamabad, but more will follow – analyses GVS’s Editor Strategic Affairs_
> 
> In February last year, India’s Hindu nationalist government led by Prime Minister Modi decided to rally their vote bank before the election. Historically, BJP’s anti-Pakistan rhetoric during election campaigns was considered a key political instrument.
> 
> This time, however, the BJP decided to take it a step further by opting for a ‘limited’ military adventure against Pakistan. In order to achieve this, the Modi regime blamed Pakistan for the Pulwama attack, without any evidence – and despite an offer for a joint investigation from Prime Minister Imran Khan.
> 
> This led many analysts to conclude that the attack in Pulwama was what is known as a ‘false flag event’, a casus belli manufactured to justify military aggression.
> 
> The stage was thus set for India and Pakistan – two South Asian Nuclear powers to come face to face after 1971. The global powers intervened and tried to defuse the situation; however, Prime Minister Modi rejected such offers of mediation and decided in favor of military escalation against Pakistan.
> 
> *The Escalation
> *
> On February 26th, the Indian attack culminated in an airstrike carried out by 12 Indian Air Force Mirage-2000 aircraft that dropped the Israeli made Spice-2000 precision-guided bombs on a hilltop located in the Pakistani town of Balakot.
> 
> On the following morning of February 27th – Pakistan Air Force struck back in Jammu by dropping precision-guided, standoff munitions at the Indian Army’s Brigade Headquarters located in Jammu along with other targets of military importance.
> 
> In an attempt to intercept the Pakistani fighter jets, the Indian Air Force scrambled its aircraft, one of which – a Mig-21 Bison of the No. 51 Squadron was shot down inside Pakistani airspace; its pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan was captured and later returned to India. Simmering tensions marred the following weeks.
> 
> Brief exchanges of fire continued at the Line of Control, Pakistan intercepted an Indian Scorpion-class submarine in the Arabian Sea, and there was a credible threat of Indian cruise missile attacks in Pakistan – which were successfully deterred by Pakistan
> 
> *Mapping International Reaction
> *
> Ever since the end of the cold war, the Indian deep state sought to pitch India to the Western powers as a counterweight to China.
> 
> For this purpose, India aggressively carried out diplomacy in the 90s and aligned itself closely with the West after 9/11. India liberalized its markets in the early 90s, paving the way for vast amounts of western investments in Indian. Consequently, India strengthened its diplomatic relations by leveraging its consumer markets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Indian has also carried out extensive lobbying efforts against Pakistan in the western capitals to damage Pakistan’s international standing and to reduce the economic and military support Pakistan received from the West, especially from the United States.
> 
> In this context, it becomes imperative for India to accurately map international reactions – should it go to war with Pakistan. In February last year, Indian leaders felt that the entire global power system could not ignore India and would have no choice but to support India against Pakistan, should India chose to exercise its military options.
> 
> Indian leadership wanted to gauge how the international community would react in case of an Indian attack on Pakistan, especially reactions from major Western capitals such as Washington DC, Berlin, London, and Paris.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Indian deep state was also interested in finding out whether other major powers such as China and Russia would maintain neutrality or pick sides in such a conflict. Another critical consideration for the Indian deep state was to measure the reaction of Muslim powers such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia, etc.
> 
> That is so because the Modi government has been actively engaging those Muslim countries through trade and diplomacy and by inviting their investments into the Indian economy – to drive them away from Pakistan, thus denying wartime support to Islamabad from its Muslim allies.
> 
> In short, Indian deep state had to test the effectiveness of Modi’s ‘isolate Pakistan’ policy to determine its extent and efficacy and whether Pakistan would receive any international support should India chose to attack Pakistan.
> 
> *Pakistan’s Internal Political Landscape
> *
> The Indian deep state felt that Pakistan was left politically divided after the elections in 2018. From India’s perspective, Pakistan’s political parties were so divided that they would not support Imran Khan’s government against India.
> 
> This miscalculation may have contributed to the decision making in Delhi in the planning phases of the Balakot airstrike. New Delhi maintained cordial relations with the former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif for years and saw him as a ‘safer option’ who not only remained passive towards India but also actively subverted Pakistan’s military.
> 
> New Delhi saw Imran Khan as a destabilizing factor who was close to Pakistan’s powerful military and remained unpredictable.
> 
> The Indian decision to attack Balakot, just a few months into Khan’s government, can be seen as an attempt to undermine and delegitimize him by making him look weak to the Pakistani nation.
> 
> The Indian policy planners were working under the assumption that Khan was inexperienced and a pacifist, therefore he would be unable to offer equivocal retaliation against Indian militarism.
> 
> It is to be seen as a calculated gambit that would have served desired objectives, had Khan been reluctant to offer military reprisals on the following day. It would not only have undermined his government but would also have damaged Pakistan’s deterrence.
> 
> *Will the Military Fight for Imran Khan?
> *
> India saw Imran Khan’s government as a threat to Indian supremacy in South Asia because the Khan administration effectively neutralized the civil-military imbalance in Pakistan.
> 
> All of a sudden, the Pakistani military and the government united behind aggressive policies on Kashmir, Afghanistan, CPEC, and the Middle East. India saw it as an undoing of its strategic interests in Afghanistan, Chahbahar port in Iran, and the Indian Ocean region.
> 
> The Indian deep state desired to find out whether the synergy between Pakistan’s civil-military leadership was a credible threat or a deception created by Pakistan. They wanted to see if the Pakistani military would actually be willing to fight on Imran Khan’s orders.
> 
> The outcome of this exercise would help India understand the depth of Pakistan’s civil-military relations, which has been anathema for Pakistan for the past many decades.
> 
> *Does Imran Khan Control Nuclear Weapons?*
> 
> Widespread confusion over Pakistan’s Nuclear Command and Control (C2) in India had to be addressed. There was a widespread belief in Indian strategic circles that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif did not exercise any actual control over the deployment of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons.
> 
> The Indian deep state wanted to determine, whether the change of guard in Islamabad also meant a change in Pakistan’s Nuclear Command and Control – especially if the Prime Minister Imran Khan was in actual control of the nuclear weapons deployment in case of a shooting war with India.
> 
> It is to address this aspect that the Prime Minister summoned a meeting of the National Command Authority. Further signaling was carried out during Prime Minister’s interviews with foreign television channels, effectively communicating that Prime Minister Imran Khan has the so-called ‘Nuclear Football’ at his disposal.
> 
> *Gauging Pakistan’s Military Preparedness
> *
> Indian military feels that the Pakistani military’s conventional warfighting capability has drastically been reduced as it has been engaged in counterinsurgency operations ever since 9/11.
> 
> The Pakistan military has seen degradation and depletion in its war stocks and serviceability over the past two decades due to ongoing operations.
> 
> As per Indian military thinking, this has turned Pakistan’s military into a police force – which is incapable of fighting a long, drawn-out, daggers drawn war. In this context, the Indian military was ‘taking a dip’ of the Pakistani military preparedness in Balakot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was trying to determine reaction time, strategies, deployment patterns, and other steps Pakistan would take to manage escalation dynamics with India.
> 
> It was also trying to assess the capabilities Pakistan has recently acquired and the impact on the battlefield dynamics, such as the F-16 C/D Block-52+ aircraft, AMRAAM Missiles, Air Borne Early Warning aircraft, and the capabilities of Pakistan’s upgraded radar and air defense network.
> 
> India also challenged Pakistan on the ground at the LOC as well as at sea by deploying its submarine which was detected and intercepted successfully by Pakistan Navy. This was done to gauge Pakistan’s military preparedness across all domains, perhaps for a larger conflict in the future.
> 
> *Validating Cold Start
> *
> Ever since the early 2000s, the Indian military has been developing a ‘non-nuclear’ military doctrine known as the ‘Cold Start Doctrine’. This doctrine revolves around the development of the so-called ‘Integrated Battle Groups’ made up of various Strike Corps of Indian Armed Forces.
> 
> The objective of the Cold Start doctrine is to inflict a quick and decisive military defeat on Pakistan through shock and awe tactics under 72 hours, without provoking a nuclear reaction from Pakistan.
> 
> The Balakot raid was a litmus test for India’s inter-services synergy because this episode tested the fundamental parameters of tactical levels of escalation between Pakistan and India – thus validating certain aspects of the Cold Start doctrine.
> 
> The Balakot airstrikes were a calculated action to determine Pakistan’s political, military, economic, and diplomatic preparedness, which would play a decisive role in a Cold Start scenario. India desired to test Pakistan’s preparedness and decision-making levels, ranging from non-linear engagement, all the way to strategic escalation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India also had an opportunity to look into its own shortcomings and weaknesses to identify areas where improvements can be made. It is evident from the shopping spree; the Indian military has been on since the Balakot showdown.
> 
> To conclude, the Balakot episode – although it didn’t turn out as planned for India will create a larger conflict in the future. This author believes that the Balakot episode was a litmus test for the Indian military in which they tested their concepts and preparedness in a controlled environment and also assessed Pakistan’s preparedness levels.
> 
> Empowered by the Hindu fascist government in Delhi, and equipped with a fresh understanding of the battlefield dynamics, the belligerent Indian generals shall embark upon their next large scale militaristic adventure against Pakistan.
> 
> _Shahid Raza is Editor Strategic Affairs at GVS. He serves as the Director of Geopolitical Research at Command Eleven. He is also a Policy Consultant and a writer who conducts independent research and analysis for Katehon Think Tank, Sputnik Radio International, and the Geopolitica Russia.
> 
> https://www.globalvillagespace.com/assessment-of-indias-balakot-raid-aftermath-future-implications/
> _
> _@Windjammer_​_@Horus @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @dbc @Aamir Hussain @waz
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @ARMalik @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @I S I @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @Knuckles @loanranger @maximuswarrior @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @Pakhtoon yum @Path-Finder @Riz @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @War Thunder @ziaulislam @PakSword @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan_


Indian deep state also practiced fratricide
and conducting a press conference with an exploded remains of PAF AMRAAM found inside its IAF SU 30 victim.

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## Bossman

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> [QUOTE="Trailer23, post: 12083099, member: ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Bro I think there is a mistake here. India has about 11 destroyers in service not 1 and their 4 most advanced ones are under construction
Also India has about 4.5k+ Tanks[/QUOTE]
You are very well informed about Indian military for a Pakistani and also you do a great job of projecting Indian interests on this forum. Were you born and raised in Pakistan?


----------



## maverick1977

pakistan needs to upgrade its armor real quick along with assault helis , navy will be reasonable, pakiatan marines should be given massive assault capability like wasp class carriers to relieve pressure on punjab borders .., those are some of gaps

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## sonic boom

(4k upscaled) Narian support depot Naushera Sector

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## TheTallGuy

HawkEye27 said:


>



I hope they make best visual description of fight.

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## That Guy

Bossman said:


> Bro I think there is a mistake here. India has about 11 destroyers in service not 1 and their 4 most advanced ones are under construction
> Also India has about 4.5k+ Tanks
> You are very well informed about Indian military for a Pakistani and also you do a great job of projecting Indian interests on this forum. Were you born and raised in Pakistan?


Don't insult him. If he's wrong, prove him wrong.

Stating facts isn't taking sides, or projecting another nation's interests.

If you want to analyze a nation, you need to gauge their capabilities accurately, anything less is intellectual dishonesty.

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## Bhakt No 1

Hi, I am new to PDF and this is my first post. I have been a visitor reader of this forum for a while now.

I would like to know the perception among the Pakistani members about, now after a whole year has passed, there is still no proof from the Pakistani side that any Su-30MKI was actually shot down. Similarly no proof from our side that actually an F-16 was really shot down.

However it has been proven that the Su-30MKI was or Su-30MKIs were involved. They were apparently successful in evading all the AMRAAMs fired on them. Because no proof of any Su-30MKI having been shot down yet.

I want to ask my Indian compatriots about their POV on although the MKI had been able to thwart everything the PAF dished at it, why didn't it shoot down PAF planes? Or did it?


----------



## Windjammer

Bhakt No 1 said:


> Hi, I am new to PDF and this is my first post. I have been a visitor reader of this forum for a while now.
> 
> I would like to know the perception among the Pakistani members about, now after a whole year has passed, there is still no proof from the Pakistani side that any Su-30MKI was actually shot down. Similarly no proof from our side that actually an F-16 was really shot down.
> 
> However it has been proven that the Su-30MKI was or Su-30MKIs were involved. They were apparently successful in evading all the AMRAAMs fired on them. Because no proof of any Su-30MKI having been shot down yet.
> 
> I want to ask my Indian compatriots about their POV on although the MKI had been able to thwart everything the PAF dished at it, why didn't it shoot down PAF planes? Or did it?


A certain stray should be able to answer that.......oh wait.....


----------



## ejaz007

Bhakt No 1 said:


> Hi, I am new to PDF and this is my first post. I have been a visitor reader of this forum for a while now.
> 
> I would like to know the perception among the Pakistani members about, now after a whole year has passed, there is still no proof from the Pakistani side that any Su-30MKI was actually shot down. Similarly no proof from our side that actually an F-16 was really shot down.
> 
> However it has been proven that the Su-30MKI was or Su-30MKIs were involved. They were apparently successful in evading all the AMRAAMs fired on them. Because no proof of any Su-30MKI having been shot down yet.
> 
> I want to ask my Indian compatriots about their POV on although the MKI had been able to thwart everything the PAF dished at it, why didn't it shoot down PAF planes? Or did it?



We are still discussing this.






This should sum up what we shot down and what not.


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## The Accountant

Bhakt No 1 said:


> However it has been proven that the Su-30MKI was or Su-30MKIs were involved. They were apparently successful in evading all the AMRAAMs fired on them. Because no proof of any Su-30MKI having been shot down yet.



Where is the proof that MKI was able to evade AMRAAM? AMRAAM was fired as accepted by IAF themselves. Proof of evasion is no where.

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## Trailer23

Image/Screen grab: -courtesy of PAF Song | Shuja Haider - Allahu Akbar

(Far Left) Sqn Ldr. Hasan M. Siddiqui & (Far Right) Wg Cdr. Numan Ali Khan​





@Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @Windjammer
@airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar

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## Maxpane

Trailer23 said:


> Image/Screen grab: -courtesy of PAF Song | Shuja Haider - Allahu Akbar
> 
> (Far Left) Sqn Ldr. Hasan M. Siddiqui & (Far Right) Wg Cdr. Numan Ali Khan​
> View attachment 608266
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @Windjammer
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


beautiful and it would be very important in our history

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## Dazzler

Trailer23 said:


> Image/Screen grab: -courtesy of PAF Song | Shuja Haider - Allahu Akbar
> 
> (Far Left) Sqn Ldr. Hasan M. Siddiqui & (Far Right) Wg Cdr. Numan Ali Khan​
> View attachment 608266
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @Windjammer
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



Scared the shit out of mig-29k

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## Pakistani Fighter

Trailer23 said:


> Image/Screen grab: -courtesy of PAF Song | Shuja Haider - Allahu Akbar
> 
> (Far Left) Sqn Ldr. Hasan M. Siddiqui & (Far Right) Wg Cdr. Numan Ali Khan​
> View attachment 608266
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @Windjammer
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


You forgot to tag me


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## Trailer23

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> You forgot to tag me


Sorry yaar, maaf kardo...

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## Ghessan

you forgot to tag me too


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## Trailer23

Ghessan said:


> you forgot to tag me too


Next time, mai apni photo upload karkay sab ko Tag kardoonga...

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## Dil Pakistan

Trailer23 said:


> Image/Screen grab: -courtesy of PAF Song | Shuja Haider - Allahu Akbar
> 
> (Far Left) Sqn Ldr. Hasan M. Siddiqui & (Far Right) Wg Cdr. Numan Ali Khan​
> View attachment 608266
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @Windjammer
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



@Trailer23 Thank you


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## TsAr

Trailer23 said:


> Next time, mai apni photo upload karkay sab ko Tag kardoonga...


But you did not forget to tag me


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## NA71

very interesting :
https://www.bbc.com/urdu/regional-5...44363C&at_custom3=BBC+Urdu&at_custom2=twitter

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## NA71

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232011931587895301

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## TheTallGuy

NA71 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232011931587895301



She is possibly right...next area of attacks will be in axis of South Punjab & seaward. but i disagree with IAF been used. they have gone smarter will use Brahmos first to strike and use IAF to defend counter-strike on its own turf.

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## Pakistani Fighter

TheTallGuy said:


> She is possibly right...next area of attacks will be in axis of South Punjab & seaward. but i disagree with IAF been used. they have gone smarter will use Brahmos first to strike and use IAF to defend counter-strike on its own turf.


Well on 26th they did tried to divert us from Bahawalpur Sector


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## Salza

TheTallGuy said:


> She is possibly right...next area of attacks will be in axis of South Punjab & seaward. but i disagree with IAF been used. they have gone smarter will use Brahmos first to strike and use IAF to defend counter-strike on its own turf.



For brahmos, Babur and Raad will be fired back!

Btw page 124 onwards, this is where everything got changed, what a proud moment that was!

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## -blitzkrieg-

Salza said:


> For brahmos, Babur and Raad will be fired back!
> 
> Btw page 124 onwards, this is where everything got changed, what a proud moment that was!



Page 124 (day of operation) should be added in thread title..Request can be made with mods.
@HRK @waz @ghazi52


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## NA71

*Indian Air Force always licked wounds inflicted by Pakistan Air Force, confirms Group Captain Sultan Mahmood Hali*

*https://dnd.com.pk/glorious-history-of-pakistan-air-force/182729 *


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## Signalian

Trailer23 said:


> Image/Screen grab: -courtesy of PAF Song | Shuja Haider - Allahu Akbar
> 
> (Far Left) Sqn Ldr. Hasan M. Siddiqui & (Far Right) Wg Cdr. Numan Ali Khan​
> View attachment 608266
> 
> 
> @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @waz @Windjammer
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @Maxpane @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Haris Ali2140 @Jinn Baba @krash @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Knuckles @loanranger @member.exe @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @salman-1 @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


Good one.

Tech team, weapons team, ground crew - not just the pilots

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## Path-Finder

NA71 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232011931587895301




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232022366823362561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232026358064308226
============================

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232054283224469505Boys and gals get ready for round 2 of False Flag followed by a much needed mini war for terrorist india.

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## Trailer23

*Question:* Why is that this Topic which has reached nearly 600 Pages, has 8880 Posts & frequented regularly by the Members, not in Sticky Threads?

There is another one currently present on Sticky Threads (_All Pakistani F-16s are accounted for: US Govt buries Indian propaganda._), which basically lost momentum last year - and that too on 64 Pages.

*600* > 64

01 Year since Op Swift Retort - I think its time to bring this one home & join the ranks of other Topics like...
- Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2
- Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

@waz @The Eagle @Dubious

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## ghazi52



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## The Eagle

Trailer23 said:


> *Question:* Why is that this Topic which has reached nearly 600 Pages, has 8880 Posts & frequented regularly by the Members, not in Sticky Threads?
> 
> There is another one currently present on Sticky Threads (_All Pakistani F-16s are accounted for: US Govt buries Indian propaganda._), which basically lost momentum last year - and that too on 64 Pages.
> 
> *600* > 64
> 
> 01 Year since Op Swift Retort - I think its time to bring this one home & join the ranks of other Topics like...
> - Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2
> - Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions
> 
> @waz @The Eagle @Dubious



Appreciated bro.

In celebration of one year of Operation Swift Retort; the thread is now sticky. Hats off to the members for constant updates, dedicated inputs & valued discussion. 


Regards,

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## Maddy987654321

Indeed Pakistan was winner on 27th February. Honestly.


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## Trailer23

So a year ago from today, India apparently executed their Surgical Strikes over Balakot.

It was a real success..., apparently.

So far I haven't seen any celebrations or talk 'bout it. Its as if they want to erase their...er...achievements, fearing the Opposition not start asking questions all over again.

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## Ghessan

The Eagle said:


> Appreciated bro.
> 
> In celebration of one year of Operation Swift Retort; the thread is now sticky. Hats off to the members for constant updates, dedicated inputs & valued discussion.
> 
> 
> Regards,



Very true and everything shared by valued members and read here was depicted later in the articles written which are still coming out.


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## The Eagle

HarisMalik said:


> And the documentary is out
> enjoy!



Please don't spam forum with same video on every other thread. We do not allow self promoting content unless, the source is credible and content has the substance/quality to discuss. What you shared is nothing more than piracy of Invincible Resolve documentary.

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## StormBreaker

The Eagle said:


> Please don't spam forum with same video on every other thread. We do not allow self promoting content unless, the source is credible and content has the substance/quality to discuss. What you shared is nothing more than piracy of Invincible Resolve documentary.


On a second thought, the thumbnail of the video, is that PL-10E on wingtips ? The IR seeker on the head of these missiles...

Edit : No, that isn’t IR seeker neither it is PL-10E


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## Path-Finder

I said this before but what really boils my blood was some of the members on this forum, those utter kants who were bad mouthing the forces. 

happy Anniversary

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## The Eagle

StormBreaker said:


> On a second thought, the thumbnail of the video, is that PL-10E on wingtips ? The IR seeker on the head of these missiles...
> 
> Edit : No, that isn’t IR seeker neither it is PL-10E



Gaming scene.

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## StormBreaker

Path-Finder said:


> I said this before but what really boils my blood was some of the members on this forum, those utter kants who were bad mouthing the forces.
> 
> happy Anniversary


I went through the first 250-300 minutes ages once some weeks ago, it was really tiring to see more than a 100 pages just on 26 feb, let alone 27. And man o man, everyone was so pissed off, then came 27, and then suddenly everyone got confused, enjoyed, mixed news coming from everyone. That really was a day !!!

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## SIPRA

StormBreaker said:


> I went through the first 250-300 minutes ages once some weeks ago, it was really tiring to see more than a 100 pages just on 26 feb, let alone 27. And man o man, everyone was so pissed off, then came 27, and then suddenly everyone got confused, enjoyed, mixed news coming from everyone. That really was a day !!!



Yes. The tide turned on Page 123, I believe.

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## Pakistani Fighter

26 and 27 Feb should be on different threads


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## StormBreaker

SIPRA said:


> Yes. The tide turned on Page 123, I believe.


I was desperate to just read mastankhan’s statement of 27 feb, to see what would be his first reaction. Definitely he started siding with thunders after 27 feb 

Would you by any chance know that post page ?



Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> 26 and 27 Feb should be on different threads


Both are in history books now

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## DANGER-ZONE

*Time to make it viral ...*





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2269083133193494










__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2175352595899882

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## Salza

It's 9.00 am Feb 27, 2020. An year back at very same time PAF fighters were given go ahead to launch attacks on Indian side. Mirages and jf 17 formation in the air to put India into shame and writes new history. Second team of F16s to smoke Indian jets in the air geared up as well.

I remember exactly around 10.40 am first breaking news on social media and TV started popingup. Made entire nation proud.

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## Daghalodi

Happy Tea Day Everyone!!


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## Path-Finder



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## NA71

Pakistanis are trolling with this fake account

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## Khanivore

I'm normally not a fan of that heavy, milky tea but today I'll make an exception and have a cup.

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## loanranger

Guys its an honour to be a Pakistani.

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## Aliph Ahmed

Indian establishment is super quite in fear of opposition again asking them probing questions to their lies and demanding proof.


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## Haris Ali2140

Ohhh boy, this man is now calling for a fight:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233045817918881793

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## Khanivore

Uh-oh. Alan putting it out there!

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## baqai

Dhona ku dhoni paray gi buhat jaldi hahahahah


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## nomi007

NA71 said:


> View attachment 609657
> 
> Pakistanis are trolling with this fake account


Please don't share fake posts

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## The SC



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## khanasifm

MM_Haider said:


> On 27th Feb a video of a downed jet of IAF was circulating on social media which is widely reported as downed IAF jet .. here are some stills .. can some airforce geek confirm if it is really SU30 MKI?
> View attachment 603262
> View attachment 603263



Su-30 numbering system sb-xxx in iaf

Helicopter z-xxxx

So on


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## khanasifm

I think the impact of mirage and jf hitting closer to military targets was over shadowed by shooting down of 2 aircraft but from military aspect the impact was more 

Shooting down was more public preceptipn and image and ground attack was more military perception and impact on Indian military army and airforce 

Anyway both go hand in hand 

Lastly the navy sub was least recognized but it would have been nice to fire a few depth charged near them and force them to surface and arrest them for some time but I understand pak did not wanted to escalate


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## Haris Ali2140

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233086089855983616


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## MM_Haider

khanasifm said:


> I think the impact of mirage and jf hitting closer to military targets was over shadowed by shooting down of 2 aircraft but from military aspect the impact was more
> 
> Shooting down was more public precipitin and image and ground attack was more military perception and impact on Indian military army and airforce
> 
> Anyway both go hand in hand
> 
> Lastly the navy sub was least recognized but it would have been nice to fire a few depth charged near them and force them to surface and arrest them for some time but I understand pak did not wanted to escalate


that sub should have been freakin sunk in our waters .. it was better chance to avenge Ghazi .. but ... again we feakin didn't want to escalate


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## Farhan_solangi

MM_Haider said:


> that sub should have been freakin sunk in our waters .. it was better chance to avenge Ghazi .. but ... again we feakin didn't want to escalate




Our team produced this animated for todays anniversary. 
Highly appreciate for positive response.

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## Windjammer

So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.

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## sonic boom

*Unseen Footage : Pieces (Tail Section, Ejection Seat) of Indian Mig-21 Bison Falling from the sky*

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## CrazyZ

Windjammer said:


> So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
> While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.



Lockheed should be as proud as the PAF. SU 30's outperformed F15 and Eurofighters in joint combat exercises. Yet in actual air combat SU 30 was shot down by a F16. The USAF's fighter mafia was right in my assessment. Modern communications and advanced munitions make light fighters just as capable as larger fighters in front line skirmishes.

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## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
> While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.


Good stuff. However would it not have been better to post the documentary in the relevant section with the screenshot following with the content you wrote than just opening up another thread for it.

The IAF jets did develop radar malfunctions. They skimmed through a chaff corridor.

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## Windjammer

Knuckles said:


> Good stuff. However would it not have been better to post the documentary in the relevant section with the screenshot following with the content you wrote than just opening up another thread for it.
> 
> The IAF jets did develop radar malfunctions. They skimmed through a chaff corridor.


I have lost track with all the threads running and just wanted to share some basic info without adding substance.

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## Nomad40

Windjammer said:


> I have lost track with all the threads running and just wanted to share some basic info without adding substance.


su30 reporting bingo on fuel and m2k going for repairs I have lost respect for IAF

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## Windjammer

Knuckles said:


> The IAF jets did develop radar malfunctions. They skimmed through a chaff corridor.


Over their own airspace !!!.....must have been their own making.?

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## alee92nawaz

Windjammer said:


> So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
> While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.


Excellent work.


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## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> Over their own airspace !!!.....must have been their own making.?


There is a lot that has not been said nor revealed. We are looking at way less than half the image from what has been provided. Certain things even KT is not allowed to say (and probably cautioned for that). Present narrative with the documentary is good enough. Enough to cause more doubt with the Indian version of fictional events, as their's doesn't even add up when looked at it neutrally.

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## StormBreaker

Knuckles said:


> Good stuff. However would it not have been better to post the documentary in the relevant section with the screenshot following with the content you wrote than just opening up another thread for it.
> 
> The IAF jets did develop radar malfunctions. They skimmed through a chaff corridor.


Their own released chaff ? If that is true, man that is hilarious, IAF is a laughing stock, clown and jokers.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Looks like a capitulation on the IAF's part...

Modi has basically said it all within a couple of days...



StormBreaker said:


> Their own released chaff ? If that is true, man that is hilarious, IAF is a laughing stock, clown and jokers.


And, most importantly *delusional*, and it's the key word....

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## Maarkhoor

Windjammer said:


> So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
> While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.


An that is why we are in love with American machines...

@MastanKhan

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## TOPGUN

Outstanding is the first word that comes to the mind and lips, on how PAF performed.

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## StormBreaker

Windjammer said:


> So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
> While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.


American machines are the key !!!
No matter how much China advances, USA has took enough time to produce best usable machines, AI is on top level.



Windjammer said:


> So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
> While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.


Did those other 9 machines include more MKIs ?

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## Maarkhoor

TOPGUN said:


> Outstanding is the first word that comes to the mind and lips, on how PAF performed.


But some T.T especially one @Bratva don't wants to agree / accept that reality witch is history now.


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## Windjammer

Knuckles said:


> There is a lot that has not been said nor revealed. We are looking at way less than half the image from what has been provided. Certain things even KT is not allowed to say (and probably cautioned for that). Present narrative with the documentary is good enough. Enough to cause more doubt with the Indian version of fictional events, as their's doesn't even add up when looked at it neutrally.


Yes, the events and scenario behind Hassan's AMRAAM going 'Pitbull' are very interesting indeed.

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## StormBreaker

Windjammer said:


> Yes, the events and scenario behind Hassan's AMRAAM going 'Pitbull' are very interesting indeed.


If the Link 16 is the real reason or let’s say, edge provider, More fighters supporting Link 16 should be sought. Although, this is topic of another thread, let’s not derail this one...

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## Windjammer

StormBreaker said:


> Did those other 9 machines include more MKIs ?


At least one MKI departed the scene at supersonic speed.

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## TOPGUN

Maarkhoor said:


> But some T.T especially one @Bratva don't wants to agree / accept that reality witch is history now.



Well that's him against millions of us that do agree

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## StormBreaker

TOPGUN said:


> Well that's him against millions of us that do agree


@Bratva ’s concern if i am not wrong is the crossing of IAF jets deep into our territory, that actually is a legit concern. Given the intensity of CAPs on 26, yet they passed through, that must be looked after and not happen again

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## Salza

sonic boom said:


> *Unseen Footage : Pieces (Tail Section, Ejection Seat) of Indian Mig-21 Bison Falling from the sky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *




Wow watching this for the first time. Thanks for the share.

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## StormBreaker

sonic boom said:


> *Unseen Footage : Pieces (Tail Section, Ejection Seat) of Indian Mig-21 Bison Falling from the sky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


The only thing i can see was abhinandan’s dhoti flying like a ghost in the end @Retired Troll,
Where is Abhi?

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## Myth_buster_1

sonic boom said:


> *Unseen Footage : Pieces (Tail Section, Ejection Seat) of Indian Mig-21 Bison Falling from the sky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



thats not a ejection seat because it deployed a parachute so this piece in the video is a tail section.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

No wonder Modi took them down himself, and can't blame him!!! The world would have little less of BS!!! What's the point in feeding this good-for-nothing IAF if they fail to score a single revenge on behalf of Modi for Dahir, Somnath, Prithviraj, Marathas etc.????? Killing and maiming lower-than-Dalit Muslims in India is no substitute for a decisive victory over Pak....

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## WhoDaresSpeak

We shall always surprise them.

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## Salza

StormBreaker said:


> @Bratva ’s concern if i am not wrong is the crossing of IAF jets deep into our territory, that actually is a legit concern. Given the intensity of CAPs on 26, yet they passed through, that must be looked after and not happen again



Actually what now I believe that we wanted Feb 27 to happen to teach Indians a lesson after their first surgical strike drama which they never did first time too. But in order to materialize Feb 27 events, Feb 26 had to happened first for us which we did. We (ISPR) could had easily said that nothing happened on the dawn of Feb 26 since IAF never hit any target, no loss of life and property, no IAF jet crossing. Onus would had been on them to provide the proofs which we all knew they couldn't. But we went on air, admit IAF crossing and gave them stern warning of inevitable surprise attack from our side and gave them a bloody nose very next day.

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## StormBreaker

Salza said:


> But in order to materialize Feb 27 events, *Feb 26 had to happened first for us which we did*..


Cut it...
That is no way to justify Feb 26, i am not at all blaming PAF here, crossing the LOC airspace is a usual norm.

Imagine, in a hypothetical scenario, Those were MKIs with Brahmos, intended for deep strike, and crossing the LOC for 12kms was all required for them to launch it, then ?

The reason i am not blaming PAF here, is because, overall they did an excellent job. We can’t say anything as the story we all know is kinda madeup. Most of us including me don't know the real events so it would be stupid of us to carry on discussing this again and again with some modified stories by PAF even though we were victorious and downed two of their jets without any loss.

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## Salza

StormBreaker said:


> Cut it...
> That is no way to justify Feb 26, i am not at all blaming PAF here, crossing the LOC airspace is a usual norm.
> 
> Imagine, in a hypothetical scenario, Those were MKIs with Brahmos, intended for deep strike, and crossing the LOC for 12kms was all required for them to launch it, then ?
> 
> The reason i am not blaming PAF here, is because, overall they did an excellent job. We can’t say anything as the story we all know is kinda madeup. Most of us including me don't know the real events so it would be stupid of us to carry on discussing this again and again with some modified stories by PAF even though we were victorious and downed two of their jets without any loss.



I get it but if their bombers were MKIs equipped with Brahmos than we would had conducted Feb 27 with RAAD equipped jets. P.S Feb 26 crossing is not at all difficult for both IAF and PAF, I doubt both airforces can stop such quick and limited penetration in a matter of few minutes only. All I meant was, PAF/Army was looking to teach Indians a lesson after their first drama as they wanted to created a new norm of violating Pakistani sovereignty. Feb 27 was smooth, text book operation like we knew everything what to do that day.


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## Beast

StormBreaker said:


> American machines are the key !!!
> No matter how much China advances, USA has took enough time to produce best usable machines, AI is on top level.



India has allies from Europe, US, Russia and Israel but only one major countries excluded. It shall not be surprised , India has long consulted Israel for their F-16 and Sweden for their Saab but they couldn't figure out anything from Chinese product.

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## StormBreaker

Beast said:


> India has allies from Europe, US, Russia and Israel but only one major countries excluded. It shall not be surprised , India has long consulted Israel for their F-16 and Sweden for their Saab but they couldn't figure out anything from Chinese product.
> 
> View attachment 609723
> 
> View attachment 609724


I am not degrading Chinese equipments here, just making statements on the basis of real life examples and the Amazing streak US origin Weapons have in Pak Military in terms of successes.

Chinese are quite silent when it comes to marketing their products and potential so I can’t say anything here, could be great, could be sub standard, nothing...


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## Beast

StormBreaker said:


> I am not degrading Chinese equipments here, just making statements on the basis of real life examples and the Amazing streak US origin Weapons have in Pak Military in terms of successes.
> 
> Chinese are quite silent when it comes to marketing their products and potential so I can’t say anything here, could be great, could be sub standard, nothing...


The US even ready to offer the best F-16 version out there for India but rejected. I don't think F-16 nor the link-16 is so great that the India will reject it. It's no secret, Israel or Europe arm dealer are more willing to share more secret with India due to their deep pockets. India shall have done enough homework from those arm supplier. Think about it. What other key arm products that India can't access makes the difference?

Chinese are unlike American who has no reservation about boasting and bragging. They prefer to continue keep the element of surprised. What I want to say is the key different between IAF and PAF are the JF-17 and ZDK-03 AWACS. Other than that, most of what PAF has in their sleeves are no secret as more advance Israel F-16 version has long study by Indians. So can be say about Saab-2000 which is exported to many countries.

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## StormBreaker

Beast said:


> The US even ready to offer the best F-16 version out there for India but rejected. I don't think F-16 nor the link-16 is so great that the India will reject it. It's no secret, Israel or Europe arm dealer are more willing to share more secret with India due to their deep pockets. India shall have done enough homework from those arm supplier. Think about it. What other key arm products that India can't access makes the difference?


India is avoiding F-16s due to PAF’s familiarity with the platform as well as India’s different plans


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## Beast

StormBreaker said:


> India is avoiding F-16s due to PAF’s familiarity with the platform as well as India’s different plans


That is one of the reason but if F-16 can really make such a big difference especially better than everything they got in their inventory. Why didn't they go for it? You have to admit American are ready to offer the best F-16 build solely for IAF. Better than PAF BLK 52. This is a fact. 

The only thing IAF can't use money to buy is JF-17 and ZDK-03. And they don't know a single thing about these planes.. Nothing. When u don't know something , that is where the most dangerous threat comes.

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## CrazyZ

Beast said:


> India has allies from Europe, US, Russia and Israel but only one major countries excluded. It shall not be surprised , India has long consulted Israel for their F-16 and Sweden for their Saab but they couldn't figure out anything from Chinese product.
> 
> View attachment 609723
> 
> View attachment 609724


Chinese military technology has advanced at an amazing level. No doubt Chinese military tech was a key factor in our success but can not be completely revealed for operational secrecy reasons.

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## Beast

CrazyZ said:


> Chinese military technology has advanced at an amazing level. No doubt Chinese military tech was a key factor in our success but can not be completely revealed for operational secrecy reasons.


I still remember the kargil war in 1999 when IAF pit PAF due to the available of their mirage 2000 and BVRAAM mica. While China can't do Jack sh*t comparable for PAF as we have nothing in our inventory. 

Now in 2019, IAF can't do anything against PAF due to strong and unknown ECM available. And we know where the difference came from.

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## gangsta_rap

No proof that a Flanker was shot down


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## Windjammer

Angry Easterling said:


> No proof that a Flanker was shot down


How many times have you repeated the same line but then again.....

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## gangsta_rap

Windjammer said:


> How many times have you repeated the same line but then again.....



No neutral source that can verify or confirm this claim. If there were one it would certainly strengthen the argument but that's not the case now is it?


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## Windjammer

Angry Easterling said:


> No neutral source that can verify or confirm this claim. If there were one it would certainly strengthen the argument but that's not the case now is it?


What would you call a neutral source....BS Dhanoa.
Or do you think Santa delivered that piece of AMRAAM to Indians as a late X-mas present.

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## gangsta_rap

Windjammer said:


> What would you call a neutral source....BS Dhanoa.



Any source from outside of south asia where they directly state the point rather than repeating it in second hand.

A report from either the US or the EU would be ideal.


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## Path-Finder




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## Path-Finder



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## Windjammer

Angry Easterling said:


> Any source from outside of south asia where they directly state the point rather than repeating it in second hand.
> 
> A report from either the US or the EU would be ideal.


Just realized your former username so i guess i will leave you at it.


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## Beast

Angry Easterling said:


> No proof that a Flanker was shot down


But we can comfirmed a Mig-21 of IAF was shot down while not a single plane from PAF was lost. Will that tells u something?

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## gangsta_rap

Beast said:


> But we can comfirmed a Mig-21 of IAF was shot down while not a single plane from PAF was lost. Will that tells u something?


A mig-21 was shot down by an F-16 without any losses. Nobody outside of India disputes that and naturally India will try to contest it to save face.

I do have a problem with Pakistanis who accept certain points without asking themselves as to where the basis and truth to it all really is.

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## raja786

StormBreaker said:


> I went through the first 250-300 minutes ages once some weeks ago, it was really tiring to see more than a 100 pages just on 26 feb, let alone 27. And man o man, everyone was so pissed off, then came 27, and then suddenly everyone got confused, enjoyed, mixed news coming from everyone. That really was a day !!!


26th February that day was hard and tuff and some senior members really destroyed Moral of the forum, dont want to name them but they are loose guns. On 27th they had no face left to show up, I was down on 26th called my dad and asked him what's going on and his reply was putter just watch the show they just started something they will regret. And Alhumdulilla his words came true. 27th Feb is day of relief a day of courage. May Allah protect my Jwans and country .Ameen.

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## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> su30 reporting bingo on fuel and m2k going for repairs I have lost respect for IAF



Hi,

Don't blame those poor pilots---. They had kids and families waiting back home for them---.

They did not want to fight a war for a psycho prime minister---.



TOPGUN said:


> Outstanding is the first word that comes to the mind and lips, on how PAF performed.



Hi,

Indeed---yes---. And outrageous would have been the word if there were 6 or 7 more enemy aircraft burning on the ground---.



Beast said:


> The US even ready to offer the best F-16 version out there for India but rejected. I don't think F-16 nor the link-16 is so great that the India will reject it. It's no secret, Israel or Europe arm dealer are more willing to share more secret with India due to their deep pockets. India shall have done enough homework from those arm supplier. Think about it. What other key arm products that India can't access makes the difference?
> 
> Chinese are unlike American who has no reservation about boasting and bragging. They prefer to continue keep the element of surprised. What I want to say is the key different between IAF and PAF are the JF-17 and ZDK-03 AWACS. Other than that, most of what PAF has in their sleeves are no secret as more advance Israel F-16 version has long study by Indians. So can be say about Saab-2000 which is exported to many countries.



Hi,

India knows how capable US equipment it---. The reason they won't buy american fighter is then controlk the US will have on them---.

The US fckd up longtime ago by declaring about the 'kill switches' on the aircraft---.

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## blain2

The less said the better. Members should always be responsible. Discretion is a virtue ;-)

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## Beast

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> India knows how capable US equipment it---. The reason they won't buy american fighter is then controlk the US will have on them---.
> 
> The US fckd up longtime ago by declaring about the 'kill switches' on the aircraft---.


Indian used it to attack Pakistan. I dont think US got any issue. You are thinking into too much. India now is virtually inside the western camp. If Indian can buy CJ-130, C-17, P-8 and Apache. I dont think they will care so much about the kill switch in F-16I. Fact is India is not so impressed with F-16I despite being the most advance version of F-16 offer to them.

Key in 27th Feb 2019 air battle do not lies with F-16 nor Aim-120c missile or Su-30KMI. But the ECM and info feed behind the background.

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## MastanKhan

Beast said:


> Indian used it to attack Pakistan. I dont think US got any issue. You are thinking into too much. India now is virtually inside the western camp. If Indian can buy CJ-130, C-17, P-8 and Apache. I dont think they will care so much about the kill switch in F-16I. Fact is India is not so impressed with F-16I despite being the most advance version of F-16 offer to them.
> 
> Key in 27th Feb 2019 air battle do not lies with F-16 nor Aim-120c missile or Su-30KMI. But the ECM and info feed behind the background.



Hi,

They are just mules---.


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## ShaikhKamal

I will second that "No proof that a Flanker was shot down". Self delusion is bad for anyone.

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## Beast

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> They are just mules---.


Apache can be disable by kill switch but Indian still buys.


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## Myth_buster_1

Beast said:


> Indian used it to attack Pakistan. I dont think US got any issue. You are thinking into too much. India now is virtually inside the western camp. If Indian can buy CJ-130, C-17, P-8 and Apache. I dont think they will care so much about the kill switch in F-16I. Fact is India is not so impressed with F-16I despite being the most advance version of F-16 offer to them.
> 
> Key in 27th Feb 2019 air battle do not lies with F-16 nor Aim-120c missile or Su-30KMI. But the ECM and info feed behind the background.



India is just playing games with 126 MRCA... They are just preventing Pakistan from purchasing a western platform and to do that they want to keep all western market chase after them.. the reason why they chose rafael is because Pakistan got very close deal with france for JF-17 block and possibly Rafael as well. 
F-16 72 is just as good as Rafael.

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## Beast

Myth_buster_1 said:


> India is just playing games with 126 MRCA... They are just preventing Pakistan from purchasing a western platform and to do that they want to keep all western market chase after them.. the reason why they chose rafael is because Pakistan got very close deal with france for JF-17 block and possibly Rafael as well.
> F-16 72 is just as good as Rafael.


The deal for Thales of JF-17 will never materialized. If by your logic, PA shall have get the cobras or Blk 70 since IAF decide to go for rafale?

And IAF has never shown any interest in F-16 blk 70 while its Lockheed keep pushing the deal of Made in India to make Indian sign it.

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## khanasifm

One chin station confirmed
View attachment 609751


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## Thorough Pro

Only because the pilot had to "go" and he was not packing any diapers that day



Windjammer said:


> At least one MKI departed the scene at supersonic speed.



how many neutral sources did india allowed in?



Angry Easterling said:


> No neutral source that can verify or confirm this claim. If there were one it would certainly strengthen the argument but that's not the case now is it?

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## Myth_buster_1

Beast said:


> The deal for Thales of JF-17 will never materialized. If by your logic, PA shall have get the cobras or Blk 70 since IAF decide to go for rafale?
> 
> And IAF has never shown any interest in F-16 blk 70 while its Lockheed keep pushing the deal of Made in India to make Indian sign it.



I dont know if you ever came across many of my posts where i have said Pakistan will never get anything big from west as long as India is their big economic partner. So had India gone for F-16 and since France is all about money, pakistan would had a chance to get Rafael. Rafael deal was more of a strategic move to isolate Pakistan from western market then anything else. 
Now mark my words, India will never buy 126 mrca from west and at most they might add another batch of rafael and thats it... until 5th generation option becomes available India will not add another platform.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Indians should be allowed to visit Abhi none done shrine in Pakistan. 
Place Where he landed from his
Magic Vedic flying saucer that can shoot down F16s without firing a missile or the bullet and where he sat down with his gun and said jai Modi India:
https://www.bbc.com/urdu/pakistan-51558386

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## NA71

Haris Ali2140 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233086089855983616



Yes, Jinnah was the most visionary leader...each of his visionary statements are being proved right today.... one by one. Regarding PAF, he said on

*"There is no doubt that a country without a strong Air Force is at the mercy of any aggressor. Pakistan must build up her air force as quickly as possible. It must be an efficient air force second to none and must take its right place with the Army and the Navy in securing Pakistan's Defence."*
*Speech to the Royal Pakistan Air Force Station Risalpur on 13th April, 1948*

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## khanasifm

Path-Finder said:


>



Good program the anchor had a good set of questions and had done homework bring analysis of various authors like ac tufail

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## Foxtrot Delta

Cant wait to see rafale running back shouting Bingo Fuel RTB!

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## SQ8

Now those tactics will be adapted to, although the BVR carousel is something NATO has looked at as well.

However, it is also likely a scenario may not present itself similar to this so these tactics are not used again.

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## Bilal.

Path-Finder said:


>



We need more of this kind of programs... not the fluff that we usually see in our TVs.

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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> So, folks, today was the first anniversary of operation swift retort. While some more details of that eventful day have been released but there are other gems that still remain hidden or only remain in the knowledge of some. One such privileged person was kind enough to share some details with me.
> While Lockheed Martin is not keeping it as much of a secret regarding its pride product, the F-16 scoring the first-ever kill of a SU-30, the PAF OTOH is very reluctant to release details as it would give away some key sensitive information such as tactics used, ranges and modes of engagement. As an example, it's bewildering to hear that Abhinandan was locked from almost 4 sides and had no chance of escape. The remaining 9 fighters of the IAF which came all kept on getting one lock after another because of Link-16. When one pilot would lock and come near the LoC to complete his fighter sweep circle even before he would turn back his lock would be passed on to another formation member who would then pursue the Bandit. So basically the PAF pilots had minimal mental strain and would simply takeover whenever a lock would be passed on and press-on with chasing the Indian aircraft. This was absolutely devastating for their force and morale of the pilots as they were encircled each and every time with no escape! Hence the IAF pilots resorted to reporting radar malfunctions or Bingo fuel in a desperate bid to leave the battlefield.



I will add something interesting if anyone noticed.... look at the way Alan Warnes chuckles few times especially when he is talking about fighter sweep & EW.



Knuckles said:


> Good stuff. However would it not have been better to post the documentary in the relevant section with the screenshot following with the content you wrote than just opening up another thread for it.
> 
> The IAF jets did develop radar malfunctions. They skimmed through a chaff corridor.





Windjammer said:


> I have lost track with all the threads running and just wanted to share some basic info without adding substance.



I will be merging threads. No issues to go ahead with separate at this time. After all, we cherish the moment so much and honour it for our resolve & commitment. Indeed, it never get over the professional discharge of duties & progress to build more tactics and practice.

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## sonic boom

Sqn Ldr Sibtain 






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233141411245109248

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## GriffinsRule

I have not finished watching all the videos yet but this is a new revelation ... watching after 13 min mark




We flew over IOK and their bases as a show of force AFTER shooting down the Mig-21.

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## Haris Ali2140

Path-Finder said:


>



@Bratva Go to 20:00 on why PAF failed to intercept when IAF crossed into LOC???

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## TOPGUN

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Don't blame those poor pilots---. They had kids and families waiting back home for them---.
> 
> They did not want to fight a war for a psycho prime minister---.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Indeed---yes---. And outrageous would have been the word if there were 6 or 7 more enemy aircraft burning on the ground---.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> India knows how capable US equipment it---. The reason they won't buy american fighter is then controlk the US will have on them---.
> 
> The US fckd up longtime ago by declaring about the 'kill switches' on the aircraft---.



Hi Sir,

Agreed but those two that came down in flames will do.



StormBreaker said:


> @Bratva ’s concern if i am not wrong is the crossing of IAF jets deep into our territory, that actually is a legit concern. Given the intensity of CAPs on 26, yet they passed through, that must be looked after and not happen again



Agreed, PAF needs to amp up its air defence forsure.


----------



## litman

Haris Ali2140 said:


> @Bratva Go to 20:00 on why PAF failed to intercept when IAF crossed into LOC???


it seems PAF has no or little answer to rafale and S400 or they just dont want to reveal their capabilities.


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## ghazi52

PAF ceremony while decorating the PAF 606 with Sukhoi Kill. The jet was flown by SL Hassan Siddique and a mysterious GIBS.

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## Myth_buster_1

litman said:


> it seems PAF has no or little answer to rafale and S400 or they just dont want to reveal their capabilities.


The best answer is to avoid confrontation and go for weak spots and their will be plenty of opportunity. 
Like in 1965 war IAF hunter could out climb and accelerate and out gun F-86 but they were the one that were hunted.


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## TsAr

Angry Easterling said:


> Any source from outside of south asia where they directly state the point rather than repeating it in second hand.
> 
> A report from either the US or the EU would be ideal.


You have a right to not believe in something, but there is no point in arguing or bringing it up again and again on the thread.


----------



## gangsta_rap

Thorough Pro said:


> how many neutral sources did india allowed in?



None - they screwed up big time but how far did they screw up that's my question. I just cant buy the point of us shooting down a flanker and with only us claiming that. Nobody else in the world seems to acknowledge that point as a fact. At most they see it as plausible...


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## mingle

ghazi52 said:


> PAF ceremony while decorating the PAF 606 with Sukhoi Kill. The jet was flown by SL Hassan Siddique and a mysterious GIBS.


New color of G suit?? Looks nice


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## razgriz19

Air defense is for critical sites only not for the whole country. We need better radar coverage so we can dispatch aircraft if we see them trying to cross the border.


TOPGUN said:


> Hi Sir,
> 
> Agreed but those two that came down in flames will do.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, PAF needs to amp up its air defence forsure.

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## Thorough Pro

Only one? get some markers and get to work 



khanasifm said:


> One chin station confirmed
> View attachment 609751


----------



## Path-Finder



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## sonic boom

GriffinsRule said:


> I have not finished watching all the videos yet but this is a new revelation ... watching after 13 min mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We flew over IOK and their bases as a show of force AFTER shooting down the Mig-21.


narian supply depot


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## Dil Pakistan

Angry Easterling said:


> Any source from outside of south asia where they directly state the point rather than repeating it in second hand.
> 
> A report from either the US or the EU would be ideal.



*Go and ask this question to Russians....they knew the same evening that SU-30 has gone down.*
@Windjammer


===================================================
Every Airforce uses peacetimes to exercise and prepare for the war.
Tactics learnt in exercises are used in the battles.
IAF is no different...…..
…….they participated in Red Flag exercise, where they were shooting their own planes
not surprisingly in the battle they shot their own copter......must have perfected the skills

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## The Eagle

When MiG-21 Bison and debris started to fall from sky when shot by Nauman Ali Khan. Tail sections coming down later.





__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Suriya

sonic boom said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233141411245109248



Pardon me, all you guys have seen these missile from last one year and in none of the old pictures taken in the past, had serial numbers of the missiles in crisp and clear numeration.

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## The Eagle

Suriya said:


> Pardon me, all you guys have seen these missile from last one year and in none of the old pictures taken in the past, had serial numbers of the missiles in crisp and clear numeration.



Actually never shared the pictures with clear serial numbers but when need arrived as there were some experts on this anniversary. PAF is not in knowledge of serial numbers with IAF at that time. However, that is appreciated if can help IAF. In-fact, those serial numbers remained there and since almost an year but unfortunately and not so surprisingly, none of the Indian expert dared to visit PAF as invitation was already given to evaluate/inspect missiles to counter with facts. 

Regards,

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## Shabi1

Suriya said:


> Pardon me, all you guys have seen these missile from last one year and in none of the old pictures taken in the past, had serial numbers of the missiles in crisp and clear numeration.


Well the pictures we had till now were not closeups, just screen grabs from videos, so there was no talk of serial numbers before.

PAF did give a open invite to media to study them.

The fact that there are pictures of these missiles on crash site with wreckage is enough.

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## Suriya

Shabi1 said:


> Well the pictures we had till now were not closeups, just screen grabs from videos, so there was no talk of serial numbers before.
> 
> PAF did give a open invite to media to study them.





The Eagle said:


> In-fact, those serial numbers remained there and since almost an year but unfortunately and not so surprisingly, none of the Indian expert dared to visit PAF as invitation was already given to evaluate/inspect missiles to counter with facts.
> 
> Regards,


You see in the older pics , the misses were mud and ashen condition. We are, u guys included struggling and debating over the issue of serial numbers in wrecked condition.
It seems PAF has given enough cleaning to missiles for serial numbers can clearly come out for everyone's reckon.

IAF wont take the bait to evaluate/inspect missiles as it is confident of it's own version of the event and further more the whole 26/27th feb incident wasn't one off skirmish for IAF but strategic decision when it cross LoC, so it is preparing for such future events and has left us fanboys grapple with unanswered questions.


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## Itachi

The Eagle said:


> When MiG-21 Bison and debris started to fall from sky when shot by Nauman Ali Khan. Tail sections coming down later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/

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## The Eagle

Suriya said:


> You see in the older pics , the misses were mud and ashen condition. We are, u guys included struggling and debating over the issue of serial numbers in wrecked condition.
> It seems PAF has given enough cleaning to missiles for serial numbers can clearly come out for everyone's reckon.
> 
> IAF wont take the bait to evaluate/inspect missiles as it is confident of it's own version of the event and further more the whole 26/27th feb incident wasn't one off skirmish for IAF but strategic decision when it cross LoC, so it is preparing for such future events and has left us fanboys grapple with unanswered questions.



This is not the bait but in-fact the bust of IAF claims. If one needs to see the serial numbers, of-course that need a hand to dirt off. That is not the confidence of IAF rather saving face by avoiding it. IAF don't need to come and see, can pay any sellout like past.. there is no limit of experts with India to do the job. Till now, none of the commentators or any expert verified IAF claims at all.



Itachi said:


> View attachment 610198



Only private viewership.





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Shabi1

Suriya said:


> You see in the older pics , the misses were mud and ashen condition. We are, u guys included struggling and debating over the issue of serial numbers in wrecked condition.
> It seems PAF has given enough cleaning to missiles for serial numbers can clearly come out for everyone's reckon.
> 
> IAF wont take the bait to evaluate/inspect missiles as it is confident of it's own version of the event and further more the whole 26/27th feb incident wasn't one off skirmish for IAF but strategic decision when it cross LoC, so it is preparing for such future events and has left us fanboys grapple with unanswered questions.




Yes same response when we talk about Tejas and Arjun. Its always a learning experience for India, it deliberately let Pakistan shoot at it's jets. Plus the strategy jhoot ithna bolo ke jhoot sach bann jai has been a tool used by Indian establishment. No use arguing with you guys on it.

By the way here is a old picture of your burnt R-73 still attached to wreckage that your side keeps claiming Pakistan bought off of amazon. That was enough proof for us.








And for more 27:00 onward





Are you aware your airforce has Mig-21s painted as PAF-6 wreckages with InAF serial numbers. So they have track record of faking it, its nothing new. BTW F-6 is twin engined and PAF first got F-7s in 1988 which is why they havnt participated in any wars with India.
Can follow the link below for more pictures of wreckages with wrong PAF insignia and flags. Jhoot ke liyai bhi akal kam par gai.








https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fail...-their-own-aircraft-stated-as-paf-f-6.448372/
And if you are still not convinced or question the InAF narrative then I feel sorry for you and we know better not argue with a idiot who doesnt have the courage to see past a blind fold.

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## air marshal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1231980016327630855

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## Bratva

LOL

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## SQ8

Bratva said:


> LOL
> 
> View attachment 610297



*The current state of Indian leadership and morals.*

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## TsAr

Bratva said:


> LOL
> 
> View attachment 610297


I am sure he was not sober at the time of this interview.....Honestly for his own sake he needs to stop BS around but how can he when his name is BS....


----------



## mshan44

Bratva said:


> LOL
> 
> View attachment 610297


their new tricks was screaming the hell out of communication system from control tower by using different officers voice to return back to base other wise PAF will teach you some lesson

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## Mrc

Bratva said:


> LOL
> 
> View attachment 610297





Alot of tricks included putting down own Sar helicopter ?

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## In arduis fidelis

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2862317950517743





Your thoughts on this?


----------



## Bratva

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233775581914943489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233643012451860482

@airomerix @Hodor @The Eagle @HRK Does this look a debris or 2nd jet which is in uncontrolled spin in second video ?

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## Pakistani Fighter

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233775581914943489
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233643012451860482
> 
> @airomerix @Hodor @The Eagle @HRK Does this look a debris or 2nd jet which is in uncontrolled spin in second video ?


Looks Mig21


----------



## F86 Saber

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233775581914943489
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233643012451860482
> 
> @airomerix @Hodor @The Eagle @HRK Does this look a debris or 2nd jet which is in uncontrolled spin in second video ?



There was a significant time difference between the SU-30 getting shot down and Nandu getting shot down. To me it looks like Nandu's plane and his ejection seat coming down separately.

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## Pakistani Fighter

Our Intelligence agencies have gotten the location of the SU 30 wreckage location. I do wonder if anyone here having the inside knowledge would tell

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## NA71

Just read and enjoy.....One year passed bur surprise continues.....

*From Pulwama to Abhinandan: How India Lost the Narrative War to Pakistan.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/02/28/from-pulwama-to-abhinandan-how-india-lost-the-narrative-war-to-pakistan/
*


----------



## sonic boom

indian mig-21 bison shot down by Pakistani Air Force - Operation Swift Retort 27 Feb 2019

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## Myth_buster_1

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233775581914943489
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233643012451860482
> 
> @airomerix @Hodor @The Eagle @HRK Does this look a debris or 2nd jet which is in uncontrolled spin in second video ?



Hi. thats the same Mig-21 wreckage.

here is the full video

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## Talon

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233775581914943489
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233643012451860482
> 
> @airomerix @Hodor @The Eagle @HRK Does this look a debris or 2nd jet which is in uncontrolled spin in second video ?


Looks like ejection seat to me


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Hodor said:


> Looks like ejection seat to me


no it is NOT!
its one of the elevator for mig-21

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## HRK

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233775581914943489
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233643012451860482
> 
> @airomerix @Hodor @The Eagle @HRK Does this look a debris or 2nd jet which is in uncontrolled spin in second video ?


could not say it's confusing


----------



## baqai

Is Sqdr Ldr Hasan the only known MKI slayer out there?


----------



## Nomad40

baqai said:


> Is Sqdr Ldr Hasan the only known MKI slayer out there?


There is one more, and he just replied to you're post


----------



## Myth_buster_1

baqai said:


> Is Sqdr Ldr Hasan the only known MKI slayer out there?


I slay MKI everyday


----------



## Goenitz

?
@0:33 somebody making video of falling mig-21 from aircraft....? then who is thumbing up


----------



## El Observer

Not sure if this video was seen before, if I'm not mistaken those are MiG-21's two pieces falling.

P.S Ignore the Indian no-brainer


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233813483130482688


----------



## nomi007

How Indian will hide this 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1184417197457887232


----------



## Myth_buster_1

El Observer said:


> Not sure if this video was seen before, if I'm not mistaken those are MiG-21's two pieces falling.
> 
> P.S Ignore the Indian no-brainer
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233813483130482688




Hi. thats the same Mig-21 wreckage.

here is the full video

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## SSGcommandoPAK



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## Pakistani Fighter

SSGcommandoPAK said:


>


Do 4 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. One H4's video is released. What about other 7 SOWs' video?


----------



## The Eagle

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> What about other 7 SOWs' video?



That is Indian responsibility, not ours to tell.

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## TsAr

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Do 4 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. One H4's video is released. What about other 7 SOWs' video?


Why do PAF has to show all the 8 bomb videos? This is war not a hollywood movie.


----------



## The Eagle

I am sure its an off shoot but can anyone guess the sound of jets flying around when Ahinandan was forced to land? For those who can differentiate between F-16 & Jf-17's engine sound.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1235179384643956737
Enjoy.

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## airomerix

The Eagle said:


> I am sure its an off shoot but can anyone guess the sound of jets flying around when Ahinandan was forced to land? For those who can differentiate between F-16 & Jf-17's engine sound.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1235179384643956737
> Enjoy.



It sounds like JF-17s were in the area. I can recall this jet noise from my stay at Kamra and Peshawar. 

F-16 has a 'seeti' type of noise which is kind of very much recognizable even from a distance. 

Treat to see Mig-21's debris chunks falling off all over the area.

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## Pakistani Fighter

airomerix said:


> It sounds like JF-17s were in the area. I can recall this jet noise from my stay at Kamra and Peshawar.
> 
> F-16 has a 'seeti' type of noise which is kind of very much recognizable even from a distance.
> 
> Treat to see Mig-21's debris chunks falling off all over the area.


Do you have the knowledge about the crash location of SU 30? I have heard that Intelligence Guys have gotten that information


----------



## Sc0lar_Vis@ri

Are we still beating this dead horse? There is ambiguity on both sides ...India says lost MiG-21 and shot f-16, Pakistan says shot mig-21 (accepted) and also shot su-30 (conjecture). It's over a year, what's the point dwelling on past imaginary glory, and I say this for both sides. Pick up the pieces, move on to the next chapter. And yeah, good to be back from the ban


----------



## xeuss

Indians are the masters of the "both sides" argument

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## The Eagle

airomerix said:


> It sounds like JF-17s were in the area. I can recall this jet noise from my stay at Kamra and Peshawar.
> 
> F-16 has a 'seeti' type of noise which is kind of very much recognizable even from a distance.
> 
> Treat to see Mig-21's debris chunks falling off all over the area.



You are right about the difference in sounds.
I hear both by the way. Especially the last slow flying-by like sound...


----------



## The Accountant

Sc0lar_Vis@ri said:


> Are we still beating this dead horse? There is ambiguity on both sides ...India says lost MiG-21 and shot f-16, Pakistan says shot mig-21 (accepted) and also shot su-30 (conjecture). It's over a year, what's the point dwelling on past imaginary glory, and I say this for both sides. Pick up the pieces, move on to the next chapter. And yeah, good to be back from the ban



It is clear by now that no F16s was down. All evidence refuting that are already clear. Furthermore, even Abhinandan has never claimed shooting down F16.

Regarding MKI, its debateable but sooner or later truth will be out. In any case, IAF lost that day at the hand of PAF despite having the advantage of first strike. IAF knew that we were coming it was not a surprise attack still IAF kept off guard

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## GriffinsRule

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Do 4 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. One H4's video is released. What about other 7 SOWs' video?


According to PAF, 2 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. REKs are just regular bombs with a range extension kits and have not guidance or video link etc. PAF has not shown the 2nd H4 video, because maybe the bomb fell closer to the Indian military target. There is a good reason why Indians have not shown the sites of the bomb blasts either.

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## Pakistani Fighter

GriffinsRule said:


> According to PAF, 2 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. REKs are just regular bombs with a range extension kits and have not guidance or video link etc. PAF has not shown the 2nd H4 video, because maybe the bomb fell closer to the Indian military target. There is a good reason why Indians have not shown the sites of the bomb blasts either.


Yeah, DG ISPR did Hinted that one of their Ammo Depot became unusable


----------



## Nomad40

Sc0lar_Vis@ri said:


> Are we still beating this dead horse? There is ambiguity on both sides ...India says lost MiG-21 and shot f-16, Pakistan says shot mig-21 (accepted) and also shot su-30 (conjecture). It's over a year, what's the point dwelling on past imaginary glory, and I say this for both sides. Pick up the pieces, move on to the next chapter. And yeah, good to be back from the ban


becuz we better than you DEAD SU30 MKI BOI


----------



## Sc0lar_Vis@ri

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> becuz we better than you DEAD SU30 MKI BOI


Thank you for the welcome, and the meaningless and one-liner post sans-logic.


----------



## Nomad40

Sc0lar_Vis@ri said:


> Thank you for the welcome, and the meaningless and one-liner post sans-logic.


Dil pe leli?


----------



## HarisMalik

The Eagle said:


> Please don't spam forum with same video on every other thread. We do not allow self promoting content unless, the source is credible and content has the substance/quality to discuss. What you shared is nothing more than piracy of Invincible Resolve documentary.




Hey, first of all, you can not accuse anyone like ...Piracy....? we had already finished recording our DCS scenes a month ago. We had no idea about Invincible Resolve. moreover, our video does not match with what the ministry made their video is more like a motivational movie and our one was educational.

I saw you quoting that somewhere that we had no authentic sources/non-credible / fan-made. please don't judge anyone without knowing anything. You never know who may be (Credible enough) involved in it or not. 
fanmade? Did you guess it without even watching a minute? maybe because it was in Urdu...?

If you didn't want it on your forum you could have said it politely instead of degrading our effort and deleting posts by calling them of no value simply you don't know the effort behind recording DCS scenes, Video editing, recording voice.

You had also mentioned if I was self-promoting there is nowhere in the video calling my name in it OR my name is written anywhere in the video. 

you also called it Spamming? I shared it only on the reply of this thread and made a new thread in the hope that people will like a different documentary based on scenes from DCS.

And in the end, after deleting my posts you banned me (WITHOUT ANY WARNING).

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## The Eagle

HarisMalik said:


> Hey, first of all, you can not accuse anyone like ...Piracy....? we had already finished recording our DCS scenes a month ago. We had no idea about Invincible Resolve. moreover, our video does not match with what the ministry made their video is more like a motivational movie and our one was educational.
> 
> I saw you quoting that somewhere that we had no authentic sources/non-credible / fan-made. please don't judge anyone without knowing anything. You never know who may be (Credible enough) involved in it or not.
> fanmade? Did you guess it without even watching a minute? maybe because it was in Urdu...?
> 
> If you didn't want it on your forum you could have said it politely instead of degrading our effort and deleting posts by calling them of no value simply you don't know the effort behind recording DCS scenes, Video editing, recording voice.
> 
> You had also mentioned if I was self-promoting there is nowhere in the video calling my name in it OR my name is written anywhere in the video.
> 
> you also called it Spamming? I shared it only on the reply of this thread and made a new thread in the hope that people will like a different documentary based on scenes from DCS.
> 
> And in the end, after deleting my posts you banned me (WITHOUT ANY WARNING).



We do not ban anyone directly but in-fact unwanted & non credible content is removed with message. We do not encourage some random Youtube channel to post videos continuously. An unknown source video shared continuously is in-fact spamming and self promoting as well. We don't know anything about that channel at all nor that meets Forum guidelines. To update yourself, read Forum Rules and then start posting. Fan made private videos are not credible and not appreciated here. 

Fanmade is what everyone calls to some random account... Urdu or not; doesn't matter. A source should be credible like official channel or any credible news site. For us, PDF content is good enough as well beside those credible sources. Yes, these random videos are non credible otherwise, millions of videos will be thrown at the Forum. Urdu is not our official language at the Forum having members from all around the world and not everyone understands Urdu. Abide by the rules and maintain quality. Here is no judging unless you are an official and you will be verified for your claims to call you an official source. 

Regards,

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## Path-Finder




----------



## Trailer23

Not worth starting up a new Topic & re-discussing the same points all over.

*-------------------------------------------------------





*​
*How the IAF plans to get the edge back from Pakistan on air-to-air strike capability
*
*During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.* 

*SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP*
*9 March, 2020*

*



*​
*New Delhi:* The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the process to acquire and induct the first batch of the indigenous all-weather Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile – Astra – as it aims to recapture its edge over its Pakistani counterpart in air-to-air capability. 

To add to its options, the IAF is also in the process of integrating the Israeli I-Derby Extended Range missile on its frontline fighter aircraft, the Su 30 MKi.

These missiles along with the already inducted MICA medium range BVR, and the long-range Meteor missiles will form the backbone of India’s air-to-air strike capability. 

“We have initiated the process to acquire the first batch of the Astra missiles. Since it is indigenous, we will be procuring them in batches,” an IAF officer told ThePrint. 

During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.

Pakistan’s F16s were armed with the AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which has a higher capability than that of the medium range R-77 used by the Su 30 MKI and the MICA used by the Mirages.

A lost edge

The IAF had the edge over its Pakistani counterpart during the Kargil battle in 1999 but lost it in 2010 when the American AMRAAM was deployed by the latter.

IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduria, had on 28 February this year said that the force is looking at regaining the upper hand in air-to-air missile capabilities that was “allowed to slip” amid a “struggle” to acquire missiles in a process that has lasted 15 years. 

The IAF chief was referring to the European-manufactured Meteor missiles that have a range of about 150 km. With the missile, an IAF pilot will be able to take out enemy aircraft at a distance of 150 km without even crossing the Indian airspace.

The Meteors have been ordered along with the Rafale fighters. While the first four Rafale fighters will land in India by May, it will take another year or so for them to be fully operationalised.

Only Rafales to have Meteor missiles

While the initial plan was to try and integrate the Meteor missiles on the Mirage 2000, the Su 30 MKI and the Tejas Mark II, the European manufacturer of the missile – MBDA – told the IAF that the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian Su 30 MKI are not suitable for the long range missile.

For the Tejas, MBDA said that the missile can be integrated only when the aircraft is equipped with indigenous AESA radar rather than the Israeli one that will be initially used. 

Following this, the IAF has decided to restrict the Meteor missile to the Rafale and rely on better versions of Astra and I-Derby for its main firepower. 

While the Astra currently has a range of about 100 km, the Israeli I-Derby has about a 60 km range.

“It is also a matter of cost,” a defence source said. “The Meteor is a very expensive missile. Astra, a fine missile, is cheaper by over half the price since it is indigenous. It is expected that future versions of Astra will beat the range of the Meteor itself.” 

Another missile which will be part of the IAF firepower is the British Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). While it is already being integrated with the Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft, the plan is to integrate them on the Su 30 MKI. If successful, this missile will replace the short range R-73 air-to-air missile that is on board the Russian aircraft currently.

https://theprint.in/india/how-the-i...istan-on-air-to-air-strike-capability/377071/

@araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Hodor @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @Windjammer 
@airomerix @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @NA71 @Path-Finder @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TheTallGuy @ziaulislam @aliyusuf @Ghessan

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## aliyusuf

Trailer23 said:


> Not worth starting up a new Topic & re-discussing the same points all over.
> 
> *-------------------------------------------------------
> 
> View attachment 612226
> *​
> *How the IAF plans to get the edge back from Pakistan on air-to-air strike capability
> *
> *During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.*
> 
> *SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP*
> *9 March, 2020*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *​
> *New Delhi:* The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the process to acquire and induct the first batch of the indigenous all-weather Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile – Astra – as it aims to recapture its edge over its Pakistani counterpart in air-to-air capability.
> 
> To add to its options, the IAF is also in the process of integrating the Israeli I-Derby Extended Range missile on its frontline fighter aircraft, the Su 30 MKi.
> 
> These missiles along with the already inducted MICA medium range BVR, and the long-range Meteor missiles will form the backbone of India’s air-to-air strike capability.
> 
> “We have initiated the process to acquire the first batch of the Astra missiles. Since it is indigenous, we will be procuring them in batches,” an IAF officer told ThePrint.
> 
> During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.
> 
> Pakistan’s F16s were armed with the AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which has a higher capability than that of the medium range R-77 used by the Su 30 MKI and the MICA used by the Mirages.
> 
> A lost edge
> 
> The IAF had the edge over its Pakistani counterpart during the Kargil battle in 1999 but lost it in 2010 when the American AMRAAM was deployed by the latter.
> 
> IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduria, had on 28 February this year said that the force is looking at regaining the upper hand in air-to-air missile capabilities that was “allowed to slip” amid a “struggle” to acquire missiles in a process that has lasted 15 years.
> 
> The IAF chief was referring to the European-manufactured Meteor missiles that have a range of about 150 km. With the missile, an IAF pilot will be able to take out enemy aircraft at a distance of 150 km without even crossing the Indian airspace.
> 
> The Meteors have been ordered along with the Rafale fighters. While the first four Rafale fighters will land in India by May, it will take another year or so for them to be fully operationalised.
> 
> Only Rafales to have Meteor missiles
> 
> While the initial plan was to try and integrate the Meteor missiles on the Mirage 2000, the Su 30 MKI and the Tejas Mark II, the European manufacturer of the missile – MBDA – told the IAF that the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian Su 30 MKI are not suitable for the long range missile.
> 
> For the Tejas, MBDA said that the missile can be integrated only when the aircraft is equipped with indigenous AESA radar rather than the Israeli one that will be initially used.
> 
> Following this, the IAF has decided to restrict the Meteor missile to the Rafale and rely on better versions of Astra and I-Derby for its main firepower.
> 
> While the Astra currently has a range of about 100 km, the Israeli I-Derby has about a 60 km range.
> 
> “It is also a matter of cost,” a defence source said. “The Meteor is a very expensive missile. Astra, a fine missile, is cheaper by over half the price since it is indigenous. It is expected that future versions of Astra will beat the range of the Meteor itself.”
> 
> Another missile which will be part of the IAF firepower is the British Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). While it is already being integrated with the Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft, the plan is to integrate them on the Su 30 MKI. If successful, this missile will replace the short range R-73 air-to-air missile that is on board the Russian aircraft currently.
> 
> https://theprint.in/india/how-the-i...istan-on-air-to-air-strike-capability/377071/
> [/USER]


@StormBreaker @Mangus Ortus Novem
Nothing unexpected nor anything to be worried about.
Neither Astra nor I-Derby ER are bringing anything to the fight to be worried too much about.
Meteor is coming with Rafale, but will be countered by PL-15.

In order for the IAF to get it's edge back, they would have to raise the general caliber of their pilots and planners.

They primarily messed up
1) In honing the skills of their pilots, in spite of having conducted a plethora of exercises with other air forces.
2) Gauging the PAF's capabilities, although PAF's upgrade process was no secret.
3) Got subdued by PAF's response.

Hence, their problems are slightly more deep rooted than being solvable by just acquiring new gadgets and weaponry.

My humble opinion.

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## NA71

Look at the pace of these improvements since 27/2...and look at the posts we have made since 27/2 discussing who was the second pilot, SU30 Kill verification, our response, and so on......

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## Trailer23

aliyusuf said:


> In order for the IAF to get it's edge back, they would have to raise the general caliber of their pilots and planners.


Yeah, best of luck to 'em with that.

It took 'em 70+ Years to get to this level, what're they gonna do 2-3 or 4-5 Years?!!


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## syed_yusuf

it will be foolish to underestimate IAF from any angle. yes Feb 27 goes to PAF hands down. that doesnot mean IAF is a sitting duck then and with all these upgrades and integration they will be a formidable force to recon with. 

underestimating IAF will be detrimental in my opinion

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## Path-Finder

syed_yusuf said:


> it will be foolish to underestimate IAF from any angle. yes Feb 27 goes to PAF hands down. that doesnot mean IAF is a sitting duck then and with all these upgrades and integration they will be a formidable force to recon with.
> 
> underestimating IAF will be detrimental in my opinion


Pakistan Never underestimates indian threat and that is why the dedication and professionalism exists in the PAF for a reason. Pakistan has always been under pressure in air combat as the advisory holds a distinct advantage in numbers. 

However Pakistan is NOT sitting idle and the constraints that existed in the past are no longer there so there is a more relaxed breathing space. But even then nothing is taken for granted.

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## Trailer23

syed_yusuf said:


> ...and with all these upgrades and integration they will be a formidable force to recon with.


That was the case when the Mirage 2000's came in the 80's.
The story was re-run when the game changing Mighty Su-30MKi's showed up.

I suppose, we can listen to more of their rambling 'bout the Rafales, Meteors & S-400's.

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## ziaulislam

Trailer23 said:


> That was the case when the Mirage 2000's came in the 80's.
> The story was re-run when the game changing Mighty Su-30MKi's showed up.
> 
> I suppose, we can listen to more of their rambling 'bout the Rafales, Meteors & S-400's.


I would be very pissed off with the french. Print reported mirages inability to lock pakistani jet especially the thunders.
Seeing that mirages is 2.5b$ uograde suppose to be top of the class this concerning

Espeically out of blue french have refused meteors for it stating its radar is short range.

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## NA71

Trailer23 said:


> Yeah, best of luck to 'em with that.
> 
> It took 'em 70+ Years to get to this level, what're they gonna do 2-3 or 4-5 Years?!!



this is sheer over confidence ....bro....Remember they are very cunning ...getting hardware and training where ever they want......they will not cross this time....they will try to lure us into to their territory for hunt through ground or air assets ...


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## Trailer23

NA71 said:


> this is sheer over confidence ....bro....Remember they are very cunning ...getting hardware and training where ever they want......they will not cross this time....they will try to lure us into to their territory for hunt through ground or air assets ...


It may be over confidence on my part - but i'm certain our PAF Leadership knows what they're doing (in spite of some haters), which is why we've always come on top even when the odds were/are against us in numbers.

I don't think anyone here disputes their cunningness, but it really hasn't worked out too well Politically or from a Military stand point. Just saying.

Them attempting to lure is their own false assumption. Just look at their track record since Balakot...

Kashmir 370 & 35A: Blowing up in their face as we speak.

CAA & NRC: The same and now their diehard supporters (Afghanistan, Iran & Bangladesh) are slowly going against 'em.

Why would we even consider attempting to go into their Territory?

Just relax. Sit back. And wait to pick up the pieces.

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## NA71

Trailer23 said:


> It may be over confidence on my part - but i'm certain our PAF Leadership knows what they're doing (in spite of some haters), which is why we've always come on top even when the odds were/are against us in numbers.
> 
> I don't think anyone here disputes their cunningness, but it really hasn't worked out too well Politically or from a Military stand point. Just saying.
> 
> Them attempting to lure is their own false assumption. Just look at their track record since Balakot...
> 
> Kashmir 370 & 35A: Blowing up in their face as we speak.
> 
> CAA & NRC: The same and now their diehard supporters (Afghanistan, Iran & Bangladesh) are slowly going against 'em.
> 
> Why would we even consider attempting to go into their Territory?
> 
> Just relax. Sit back. And wait to pick up the pieces.



Kash it would happen as you paint.....

No one hates ...these are our sons (wrt ...my age)...we are here to share views....some times it match to yours some time not....

Like minded people are worried that we are bragging too much ....we should focus on next episode with same capability which we had on 27/2 because some new additions (B3 etc) is little far away....and the enemy is quickly enhancing their strike capabilities. 

So my point is to forget 27/2 for now.... and concentrate on next day work

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## Cuirassier

Interesting that it took 9 years to realise the AMRAAM edge, all this time I never noticed any concern from their quarters; too complacent.


Trailer23 said:


> Not worth starting up a new Topic & re-discussing the same points all over.
> 
> *-------------------------------------------------------
> 
> View attachment 612226
> *​
> *How the IAF plans to get the edge back from Pakistan on air-to-air strike capability
> *
> *During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.*
> 
> *SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP*
> *9 March, 2020*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​
> *New Delhi:* The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the process to acquire and induct the first batch of the indigenous all-weather Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile – Astra – as it aims to recapture its edge over its Pakistani counterpart in air-to-air capability.
> 
> To add to its options, the IAF is also in the process of integrating the Israeli I-Derby Extended Range missile on its frontline fighter aircraft, the Su 30 MKi.
> 
> These missiles along with the already inducted MICA medium range BVR, and the long-range Meteor missiles will form the backbone of India’s air-to-air strike capability.
> 
> “We have initiated the process to acquire the first batch of the Astra missiles. Since it is indigenous, we will be procuring them in batches,” an IAF officer told ThePrint.
> 
> During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.
> 
> Pakistan’s F16s were armed with the AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which has a higher capability than that of the medium range R-77 used by the Su 30 MKI and the MICA used by the Mirages.
> 
> A lost edge
> 
> The IAF had the edge over its Pakistani counterpart during the Kargil battle in 1999 but lost it in 2010 when the American AMRAAM was deployed by the latter.
> 
> IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduria, had on 28 February this year said that the force is looking at regaining the upper hand in air-to-air missile capabilities that was “allowed to slip” amid a “struggle” to acquire missiles in a process that has lasted 15 years.
> 
> The IAF chief was referring to the European-manufactured Meteor missiles that have a range of about 150 km. With the missile, an IAF pilot will be able to take out enemy aircraft at a distance of 150 km without even crossing the Indian airspace.
> 
> The Meteors have been ordered along with the Rafale fighters. While the first four Rafale fighters will land in India by May, it will take another year or so for them to be fully operationalised.
> 
> Only Rafales to have Meteor missiles
> 
> While the initial plan was to try and integrate the Meteor missiles on the Mirage 2000, the Su 30 MKI and the Tejas Mark II, the European manufacturer of the missile – MBDA – told the IAF that the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian Su 30 MKI are not suitable for the long range missile.
> 
> For the Tejas, MBDA said that the missile can be integrated only when the aircraft is equipped with indigenous AESA radar rather than the Israeli one that will be initially used.
> 
> Following this, the IAF has decided to restrict the Meteor missile to the Rafale and rely on better versions of Astra and I-Derby for its main firepower.
> 
> While the Astra currently has a range of about 100 km, the Israeli I-Derby has about a 60 km range.
> 
> “It is also a matter of cost,” a defence source said. “The Meteor is a very expensive missile. Astra, a fine missile, is cheaper by over half the price since it is indigenous. It is expected that future versions of Astra will beat the range of the Meteor itself.”
> 
> Another missile which will be part of the IAF firepower is the British Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). While it is already being integrated with the Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft, the plan is to integrate them on the Su 30 MKI. If successful, this missile will replace the short range R-73 air-to-air missile that is on board the Russian aircraft currently.
> 
> https://theprint.in/india/how-the-i...istan-on-air-to-air-strike-capability/377071/
> 
> @araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Hodor @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @Windjammer
> @airomerix @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @NA71 @Path-Finder @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TheTallGuy @ziaulislam @aliyusuf @Ghessan

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## Tumba

TF141 said:


> Interesting that it took 9 years to realise the AMRAAM edge, all this time I never noticed any concern from their quarters; too complacent.



well to be fair, nobody thought Air Power will ever be used for striking land targets well inside Pakistan.
But now it seems Air Power will be the one that will be used most likely so focus has shifted for that too
thats why
*R-27ER* and *R-77-1 *are bought for Su-30MKI giving 100km range capability for this fighter from earlier R-77 bought more than a decade ago for 80k

and Meteor another 100+ km missile for Rafales.


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## Trango Towers

NA71 said:


> this is sheer over confidence ....bro....Remember they are very cunning ...getting hardware and training where ever they want......they will not cross this time....they will try to lure us into to their territory for hunt through ground or air assets ...


We are not asleep

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## NA71

Tumba said:


> well to be fair, nobody thought Air Power will ever be used for striking land targets well inside Pakistan.
> But now it seems Air Power will be the one that will be used most likely so focus has shifted for that too
> thats why
> *R-27ER* and *R-77-1 *are bought for Su-30MKI giving 100km range capability for this fighter from earlier R-77 bought more than a decade ago for 80k
> 
> and Meteor another 100+ km missile for Rafales.



wow ..you are piling up plenty of inventory .... here we are preparing Fantastic Tea of various blends and tastes ....
Cost of one Tea cup is also raised to $80mn


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## Ghessan

Trailer23 said:


> Not worth starting up a new Topic & re-discussing the same points all over.
> 
> *-------------------------------------------------------
> 
> View attachment 612226
> *​
> *How the IAF plans to get the edge back from Pakistan on air-to-air strike capability
> *
> *During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.*
> 
> *SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP*
> *9 March, 2020*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *​
> *New Delhi:* The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the process to acquire and induct the first batch of the indigenous all-weather Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile – Astra – as it aims to recapture its edge over its Pakistani counterpart in air-to-air capability.
> 
> To add to its options, the IAF is also in the process of integrating the Israeli I-Derby Extended Range missile on its frontline fighter aircraft, the Su 30 MKi.
> 
> These missiles along with the already inducted MICA medium range BVR, and the long-range Meteor missiles will form the backbone of India’s air-to-air strike capability.
> 
> “We have initiated the process to acquire the first batch of the Astra missiles. Since it is indigenous, we will be procuring them in batches,” an IAF officer told ThePrint.
> 
> During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.
> 
> Pakistan’s F16s were armed with the AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which has a higher capability than that of the medium range R-77 used by the Su 30 MKI and the MICA used by the Mirages.
> 
> A lost edge
> 
> The IAF had the edge over its Pakistani counterpart during the Kargil battle in 1999 but lost it in 2010 when the American AMRAAM was deployed by the latter.
> 
> IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduria, had on 28 February this year said that the force is looking at regaining the upper hand in air-to-air missile capabilities that was “allowed to slip” amid a “struggle” to acquire missiles in a process that has lasted 15 years.
> 
> The IAF chief was referring to the European-manufactured Meteor missiles that have a range of about 150 km. With the missile, an IAF pilot will be able to take out enemy aircraft at a distance of 150 km without even crossing the Indian airspace.
> 
> The Meteors have been ordered along with the Rafale fighters. While the first four Rafale fighters will land in India by May, it will take another year or so for them to be fully operationalised.
> 
> Only Rafales to have Meteor missiles
> 
> While the initial plan was to try and integrate the Meteor missiles on the Mirage 2000, the Su 30 MKI and the Tejas Mark II, the European manufacturer of the missile – MBDA – told the IAF that the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian Su 30 MKI are not suitable for the long range missile.
> 
> For the Tejas, MBDA said that the missile can be integrated only when the aircraft is equipped with indigenous AESA radar rather than the Israeli one that will be initially used.
> 
> Following this, the IAF has decided to restrict the Meteor missile to the Rafale and rely on better versions of Astra and I-Derby for its main firepower.
> 
> While the Astra currently has a range of about 100 km, the Israeli I-Derby has about a 60 km range.
> 
> “It is also a matter of cost,” a defence source said. “The Meteor is a very expensive missile. Astra, a fine missile, is cheaper by over half the price since it is indigenous. It is expected that future versions of Astra will beat the range of the Meteor itself.”
> 
> Another missile which will be part of the IAF firepower is the British Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). While it is already being integrated with the Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft, the plan is to integrate them on the Su 30 MKI. If successful, this missile will replace the short range R-73 air-to-air missile that is on board the Russian aircraft currently.
> 
> https://theprint.in/india/how-the-i...istan-on-air-to-air-strike-capability/377071/
> 
> @araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Hodor @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @Windjammer
> @airomerix @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @NA71 @Path-Finder @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TheTallGuy @ziaulislam @aliyusuf @Ghessan



we will keep it up with armament, also meteor may pave the way for D version. PAF must increase size of its fleet.


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## PakSword

Tumba said:


> well to be fair, nobody thought Air Power will ever be used for striking land targets well inside Pakistan.
> But now it seems Air Power will be the one that will be used most likely so focus has shifted for that too
> thats why
> *R-27ER* and *R-77-1 *are bought for Su-30MKI giving 100km range capability for this fighter from earlier R-77 bought more than a decade ago for 80k
> 
> and Meteor another 100+ km missile for Rafales.



Did you expect that Indian jets will miss their targets even after using Israeli munitions? We did... 

Did you think Pakistan would retaliate and bomb the areas near military installations? We have always had this expectation from PAF.

Did you think you will lose your aircraft if they try to chase the attackers? We expected that too.

Pakistan retaliated in broad daylight after informing your forces "we will retaliate", and in response you lost two jets, one heli, and a whole lot of respect among international military experts.

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## aliyusuf

Tumba said:


> *R-27ER* and *R-77-1 *are bought for Su-30MKI giving 100km range capability for this fighter from earlier R-77 bought more than a decade ago for 80k


R-27ER --> Not likely because SARH (Tied to the missile launch till it hits the target ... also restrictions apply to it's launch parameters)
R-27EA and R-77-1 --> plausible ... but all mainstream sources report lately to indicate Astra and I-Derby ER are being acquired ... IAF doesn't seem to be too inclined on getting Russian BVR AAM at the moment.

If you have a reputable mainstream link available stating exactly these versions are being acquired, kindly share.


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## Tumba

aliyusuf said:


> R-27ER --> Not likely because SARH (Tied to the missile launch till it hits the target ... also restrictions apply to it's launch parameters)
> R-27EA and R-77-1 --> plausible ... but all mainstream sources report lately to indicate Astra and I-Derby ER are being acquired ... IAF doesn't seem to be too inclined on getting Russian BVR AAM at the moment.
> 
> If you have a reputable mainstream link available stating exactly these versions are being acquired, kindly share.



https://www.janes.com/article/90192...ssia-for-1-000-additional-air-to-air-missiles

"The sources said the R-27R1/ER1 and R-27T1/ET1 variants, which are fitted with semi-active and passive infrared seekers"

As per above source both version are bought... but R-27ET version was already rejected by IAF long time ago due to various technical reasons...
So R-27 ER is bought ...
As the main purpose for this missiles will be to keep away AWACS and Tankers... and come close to fire R-77-1 in proximity..
R-27 ER carry both active radar homing and passive infra-red but lose energy in last leg thats why not ideal for fighter kills... but surely has a place in strategy ...

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## araz

Trango Towers said:


> We are not asleep


I was reading Surah Anfaal. If you read the details of the battle of Badr you will get insight into why Allah Izza Wa Jal caused the fight to occur. The description gives insight into the Muslim's mind in a fight. I find it difficult to discourage our youth from bragging too much. We sometimes need to look back at Uhad as well and another battle(??Hunain) where the Muslims nearly faced defeat in spite of Rasool Allah SAW being amongst them. In both cases the Muslims relied on their personal strength and marvelled at their number.In one case they were indisciplined and caused a clear victory to be turned into defeat and in another they were proud of their numbers. All our preparations will turn into nothing if we are not fearful of Allah and avoid pride. I give you a different perspective which you may or may not agree with.
A

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## Dark1

TF141 said:


> Interesting that it took 9 years to realise the AMRAAM edge, all this time I never noticed any concern from their quarters; too complacent.


It's a systemic issue with the armed forces and security in general in India , since independence. The army is considered a waste of money and resources are released very reluctantly. 
Look at Mumbai 2008 attacks. Still hardly any security in the whole city. Nothing much has changed. Depending on the good grace of future terrorists.
Similarly, 1962 buying guns from America during conflict with China. 
Kargil , vacating hill tops during winters , without a formal agreement with Pakistan. And buying laser guided bombs from Israel during kargil conflict. 
Cant really always blame the armed forces as the recent Rafael fighter procurement shows. Took a decade for the fighters to come, after being fast tracked by present government. 
This recent air conflict is actually misleading, as except for the mig21 having non encrypted communications, the sukhois were really not tested. 
But Russian equipment's stated ranges and their efficacy is unproven against western opponents.


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## Nomad40

Tumba said:


> well to be fair, nobody thought Air Power will ever be used for striking land targets well inside Pakistan.
> But now it seems Air Power will be the one that will be used most likely so focus has shifted for that too
> thats why
> *R-27ER* and *R-77-1 *are bought for Su-30MKI giving 100km range capability for this fighter from earlier R-77 bought more than a decade ago for 80k
> 
> and Meteor another 100+ km missile for Rafales.


What targets and what deep inside pakistan, Care to elaborate I want to know your side as well.

thanks


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## Tumba

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> What targets and what deep inside pakistan, Care to elaborate I want to know your side as well.
> 
> thanks



Same targets hit by IAF after around 50 years inside Pakistan. And as per GOI and Indian Military thats the start of new policy from now on.


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## Mrc

Tumba said:


> Same targets hit by IAF after around 50 years inside Pakistan. And as per GOI and Indian Military thats the start of new policy from now on.




Whats the new policy 26 or 27th Feb?? Or both??


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## Nomad40

Tumba said:


> Same targets hit by IAF after around 50 years inside Pakistan. And as per GOI and Indian Military thats the start of new policy from now on.


care to explain which targets are being hit by IAF inside Pak


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## SIPRA

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> care to explain which targets are being hit by IAF inside Pak



A few trees and a crow.

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## Mrc

Thats the new policy kill a crow and loose some fighters in return

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## Path-Finder



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## airomerix

Tumba said:


> Same targets hit by IAF after around 50 years inside Pakistan. And as per GOI and Indian Military thats the start of new policy from now on.



One policy is to stay away from the borders. 

Since the past 8 months, no IAF air activity has been observed with in 35 nautical miles of Indo-Pak borders. 

Speaks volumes about the 'risk-averse' policy you just maintained.

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## Ali_Baba

airomerix said:


> One policy is to stay away from the borders.
> 
> Since the past 8 months, no IAF air activity has been observed with in 35 nautical miles of Indo-Pak borders.
> 
> Speaks volumes about the 'risk-averse' policy you just maintained.



It seems Indians draw alot from paper specifications and numbers on sheets of paper for their confidence. Once the Rafale is here, maybe they will fly it closer to the ceasefire line, or border?!?!


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## airomerix

Ali_Baba said:


> It seems Indians draw alot from paper specifications and numbers on sheets of paper for their confidence. Once the Rafale is here, maybe they will fly it closer to the ceasefire line, or border?!?!



They are actually practicing with their AWACS. We see increased air activity of their AEW&C assets here and there. This was their weakness and they are working on it. Any Air Force would do.

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## TsAr

airomerix said:


> They are actually practicing with their AWACS. We see increased air activity of their AEW&C assets here and there. This was their weakness and they are working on it. Any Air Force would do.


not surprising at all, IAF is a professional force and they will learn from there mistakes and will try to rectify them in the future.


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## Esgalduin

Tumba said:


> Same targets hit by IAF after around 50 years inside Pakistan. And as per GOI and Indian Military thats the start of new policy from now on.


Buddy, don't embarrass yourself any further than IAF and Modi government have already done. Your "targets" may well have been acquired but you didn't destroy anything of substance. Buss kuch darakht aur aik kawwe ko shaheed kar diya. Please open your eyes.


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## Daghalodi

Well Indians arent talking about a two front war anymore like they were in 2018 after operation gagan shakti.

OR 

I dont know maybe they will , I guess first it was take out PAF and than go after PLAAF but this time it will be take out PLAAF first and than go after PAF. Who knows


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## SecularNationalist

This video was recorded by a villager on Pakistani side . You can see first the burning jet main engine and body part fell on hill ,later the tail and wing parts.

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## NA71

already posted in PDF weeks ago


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## Aliph Ahmed

TsAr said:


> not surprising at all, IAF is a professional force and they will learn from there mistakes and will try to rectify them in the future.



An airforce who's chief lies in front of the whole world and on camera without providing any material evidence is not a professional airforce.

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## Dark1

Esgalduin said:


> Buddy, don't embarrass yourself any further than IAF and Modi government have already done. Your "targets" may well have been acquired but you didn't destroy anything of substance. Buss kuch darakht aur aik kawwe ko shaheed kar diya. Please open your eyes.


You could be 100 % right but not allowing journalists access to the madrassa for 42 days has to have some reasoning behind it ? No one from Pakistan even tries to explain this behavior. I believe substantial damage was done in both infrastructure and personnel and it required 42 days to clean up the mess.

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## Mav3rick

Dark1 said:


> You could be 100 % right but not allowing journalists access to the madrassa for 42 days has to have some reasoning behind it ? No one from Pakistan even tries to explain this behavior. I believe substantial damage was done in both infrastructure and personnel and it required 42 days to clean up the mess.



The area was under constant satellite observation so how could Pakistan do anything to hide damage? The reason for not taking the Journalists to the site immediately could be the existing risk of another Indian attempt after failure of their first attempt and also because of rising tensions at the border.


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## HRK

Mav3rick said:


> The area was under constant satellite observation so how could Pakistan do anything to hide damage? The reason for not taking the Journalists to the site immediately could be the existing risk of another Indian attempt after failure of their first attempt and also because of rising tensions at the border.


Pakistani Journalists such as Hamid Mir and Arshad Sharif from two of the top news channels of Pakistan reached at the site of Indian strike and Maradsa within few hours of the same day .... so the denial by Indians of non-access to Journalist is nothing but their effort to hide their embarrassment of failed strike .....

_In reality its the Indian side which have not granted any access to any journalist to sites Struck by Pakistan Air force in retaliation _

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## Dark1

HRK said:


> Pakistani Journalists such as Hamid Mir and Arshad Sharif from two of the top news channels of Pakistan reached at the site of Indian strike and Maradsa within few hours of the same day .... so the denial by Indians of noe access to Journalist is nothing but their effort to hide their embarrassment of failed strike .....
> 
> _In reality its the Indian side which have not granted any access to any journalist to sites Struck by Pakistan Air force in retaliation _


He didnt go to the madrassa but to a fake site.
Here is the write up by a respected Pakistani journalist-
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...-with-its-half-truths-and-denials/203657/?amp



Mav3rick said:


> The area was under constant satellite observation so how could Pakistan do anything to hide damage? The reason for not taking the Journalists to the site immediately could be the existing risk of another Indian attempt after failure of their first attempt and also because of rising tensions at the border.


For constant satellite observation some link is available with you ?
Also its logical that time was required to slowly remove the rubble and restore normalcy.

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## NA71

Dark1 said:


> You could be 100 % right but not allowing journalists access to the madrassa for 42 days has to have some reasoning behind it ? No one from Pakistan even tries to explain this behavior. I believe substantial damage was done in both infrastructure and personnel and it required 42 days to clean up the mess.



Bro DG asked very next day to your media and even military officers to visit the area.....and you talk about 42 days....
Can you hide 300 plus causalities ...their relatives ...for so much time? you could not manage to hide the wing commander of downed SU30 ...and included in the list of Mi17 chopper.check that list two wing commanders were in that list.



Dark1 said:


> He didnt go to the madrassa but to a fake site.
> Here is the write up by a respected Pakistani journalist-
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.in/opinion/pakistan-media-was-no-angel-either-after-balakot-with-its-half-truths-and-denials/203657/?amp
> 
> 
> For constant satellite observation some link is available with you ?
> Also its logical that time was required to slowly remove the rubble and restore normalcy.



Two different foreign reports based on satellite imagery proved that it was a precisely missed attempt
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/indias-strike-on-balakot-a-very-precise-miss/

https://greatgameindia.com/forensic-satellite-analysis-balakot-airstrike/


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## HRK

Dark1 said:


> ..........


shut up you idiot .... that journalist is as respected as much Sunny leone ....


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## Mav3rick

Dark1 said:


> For constant satellite observation some link is available with you ?
> Also its logical that time was required to slowly remove the rubble and restore normalcy.



No, I don't have any link. However, I am confident that the Indian Government and the Indian Military does have access to satellites for observation and they would have taken all the help that they needed to figure out where the bombs had landed. Had the bombs landed on target, those videos/pictures would be all over the world. 

It is more logical to weather out the storm and wait for normalcy before taking journalists/media to a hot site (hot because an attempt to attack had failed and so the enemy could potentially make another attempt).


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## NA71

this is from your own source:
https://greatgameindia.com/forensic-satellite-analysis-balakot-airstrike/


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## NA71

so you killed madrassa kids....we are closing eyes....dear please be serious.

"As a retaliation against Pulwama attack (refer to GreatGameIndia wiki on Pulwama Attack), Indian fighter jets carried out strikes against targets inside undisputed Pakistani territory, but open-source evidence suggested that the strike was unsuccessful".

Indian source being quoted


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## Mrc

Dark1 said:


> Journalists were denyed access for 42 days and then were allowed a short guided tour. Why was the army guarding a children's madrassa ?
> It's all very obvious and closing your eyes cannot hide the truth. It was a terrorist camp, destroyed by the IAF on 26th and to escape detection, the reconstruction was done slowly over a 42 days period.
> This is my last comment on this issue.


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## NA71

stop eating cow dung otherwise you will start thinking like cow.....


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## Dark1

NA71 said:


> this is from your own source:
> https://greatgameindia.com/forensic-satellite-analysis-balakot-airstrike/


All this validation from western unknown "experts" was not required if Pakistan army had given immediate access to the madrassa, like it gave to the hillside. No smoke without fire.

And giving me a negative for above comments ? Wow.

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## NA71

Dark1 said:


> All this validation from western unknown "experts" was not required if Pakistan army had given immediate access to the madrassa, like it gave to the hillside. No smoke without fire.




We are arguing with nut case.


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## Mrc

I think reconstruction of a bombed site on hill top getting construction material up the hill labor and machines working would have been picked up by settelites plus making new building look old is impossible
Plus than u have to mask all signs of reconstruction ..
Its not as easy as rping your neighbour in india or self pleasing while dreaming of doing so


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## fitpOsitive

Dark1 said:


> All this validation from western unknown "experts" was not required if Pakistan army had given immediate access to the madrassa, like it gave to the hillside. No smoke without fire.
> 
> And giving me a negative for above comments ? Wow.


The reason is : during an attack on Beirut, a journalist stood at a bridge and said, while looking in camera, " whole of the Beirut is destroyed, only this bridge is remaining". Israeli jets destroyed that bridge within next half hour.

Moral: if your enemy doesn't know where is the target, don't tell them.

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## Haris Ali2140

After going through Indian forums and through articles published by Infian defence analysts, there is not a single word DA-20s. It has completely gone under their radars.

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## Mace

Haris Ali2140 said:


> After going through Indian forums and through articles published by Infian defence analysts, there is not a single word DA-20s. It has completely gone under their radars.



It was criminal negligence on part of IAF in not ensuring secure data links for Mig21.


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## Robin rone

Haris Ali2140 said:


> After going through Indian forums and through articles published by Infian defence analysts, there is not a single word DA-20s. It has completely gone under their radars.



As i told before Indian always tricky to play their games all their 4th gen aircraft's including su30 to m2k have Indian ODL al500l( reverse engineered Israeli ODL ) but they left mig21 without these upgrade so practically their 4th gen found they can't go offensive and do defensive at same time they played safe in their border's but mig21 pilot followed text book interception gone across the IB then subjected to communication rf link jamming by da20, once he lost situational awareness he was siting duck for aim120, am not believing IAF claim on f16 similarly su30 shoot down also distinct possibility, may be the aim 120 damaged the aircraft but considering su30 twin engine and its size may be fly back to base in a half dead manner, from moral point view it will be rubbing on their face, where an air force half of their size knock down one aircraft and make one aircraft forced to go back base which was their most potent fighter, as a old saying its not the weapon the one who handling it make it deadlier,

PS: as I said before Pakistan like Israeli counter part in South Asia where make a good fight with what they had ( no Wonder PAF most respectful around world)

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## Telescopic Sight

HRK said:


> Pakistani Journalists such as Hamid Mir and Arshad Sharif from two of the top news channels of Pakistan reached at the site of Indian strike and Maradsa within few hours of the same day .... so the denial by Indians of non-access to Journalist is nothing but their effort to hide their embarrassment of failed strike .....
> 
> _In reality its the Indian side which have not granted any access to any journalist to sites Struck by Pakistan Air force in retaliation _




As far as I remember , not even one journalist was allowed inside the targeted structures for more than 40 days. Including the individuals mentioned by you. They were kept so far away that you couldn't even see the terror hideouts.
If you can share anything to the contrary, please do us this favor. 
If truth be told , I see you give negative ratings to anything that goes against the Pakistani armed forces propaganda , no matter how well stated the post is. 
Is giving Negative ratings is your only contribution to this forum ? I POSITIVELY think so !

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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> As far as I remember , not even one journalist was allowed inside the targeted structures for more than 40 days. Including the individuals mentioned by you. They were kept so far away that you couldn't even see the terror hideouts.
> If you can share anything to the contrary, please do us this favor.
> If truth be told , I see you give negative ratings to anything that goes against the Pakistani armed forces propaganda , no matter how well stated the post is.
> Is giving Negative ratings is your only contribution to this forum ? I POSITIVELY think so !


social media ka zamana hay pappu and Pakistani social media isn't locked down censured like in india...if you were even remotely close to the stated target, it would've long reached the internet within minutes of your failure. The fact is that forget the target building, you even missed the city nearly 20 miles! 





^^^ notice the date...


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## Bratva

Telescopic Sight said:


> As far as I remember , not even one journalist was allowed inside the targeted structures for more than 40 days. Including the individuals mentioned by you. They were kept so far away that you couldn't even see the terror hideouts.
> If you can share anything to the contrary, please do us this favor.
> If truth be told , I see you give negative ratings to anything that goes against the Pakistani armed forces propaganda , no matter how well stated the post is.
> Is giving Negative ratings is your only contribution to this forum ? I POSITIVELY think so !



For what reasons immediate access were to be given? When Satellite images proved there was not a single damage to the buildings? Common sense is not so common indians like you. Did Satellite images showed any damage to the building? Then why Journalists needs to be taken to targeted structure? to show what? 

On the contrary, Did India provide proof of Balakot strike were successful? Instead of Asking Pakistan to give this and that, why not India is coming clean and giving proofs of whatever they are claiming ?


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## GumNaam

Bratva said:


> For what reasons immediate access were to be given? When Satellite images proved there was not a single damage to the buildings? Common sense is not so common indians like you. Did Satellite images showed any damage to the building? Then why Journalists needs to be taken to targeted structure? to show what?
> 
> On the contrary, Did India provide proof of Balakot strike were successful? Instead of Asking Pakistan to give this and that, why not India is coming clean and giving proofs of whatever they are claiming ?


Why are you even wasting time with this monkey when the international media along with all independent & authoritative sources including those who are important anti Pakistan have verified from 6 ways under the sunset that no damage has occurred to the building, not even a scratch. Even the staunch Pakistan hater like christine fair openly insulted india while IN india that forget killing 300 terrorists, they couldn't even put a dent in the building nor touch any F16...truly reminded me of a viceroy standing on enslaved territory insulting, humiliating & degrading the slaves quivering at her feet!


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## Haris Ali2140

Telescopic Sight said:


> Are you even seeing the video before posting ? If this journalist at the targeted structures ? No ?
> Then please tell that HRK chap that nobody saw the targeted structures for more than 40 days ! You are actually proving my point and showing HRK as incorrect
> 
> And your next post clearly shows influence of alcohol !
> 
> 
> Then why was access given later ? Why were journalists and friendly diplomats taken there in a big convoy ? Why all that song and dance 40 days later? "to show what?" ( in your words )
> So if satellites could show all the IAF bombs missed, then what happened in 40 days?
> Be logical.


You dont need to be inside the building to see the damage caused by multiple 500 kg bombs. Our objective was to show that the bombs missed their targets, whats inside the building is another topic.


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## HRK

Bratva said:


> For what reasons immediate access were to be given? When Satellite images proved there was not a single damage to the buildings? Common sense is not so common indians like you. Did Satellite images showed any damage to the building? Then why Journalists needs to be taken to targeted structure? to show what?
> 
> On the contrary, Did India provide proof of Balakot strike were successful? Instead of Asking Pakistan to give this and that, why not India is coming clean and giving proofs of whatever they are claiming ?





Haris Ali2140 said:


> You dont need to be inside the building to see the damage caused by multiple 500 kg bombs. Our objective was to show that the bombs missed their targets, whats inside the building is another topic.


Would request to you two gentlemen to stop responding the Indian trolls those who have watched the program telecasted that day know where our journalist were .... 

Attempts of Indian trolls after 1 year is nothing but to rewrite the narrative one who is interested in facts is only need to do is to reread this thread from the beginning almost all the facts and evidences are present in thread and _all the arguments, accusation, false claims and false propaganda from Indian members are satisfactorily replied in this thread MULTIPLE TIME even to the these same members_.

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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> Are you even seeing the video before posting ? If this journalist at the targeted structures ? No ?
> Then please tell that HRK chap that nobody saw the targeted structures for more than 40 days ! You are actually proving my point and showing HRK as incorrect
> 
> And your next post clearly shows influence of alcohol !
> 
> 
> Then why was access given later ? Why were journalists and friendly diplomats taken there in a big convoy ? Why all that song and dance 40 days later? "to show what?" ( in your words )
> So if satellites could show all the IAF bombs missed, then what happened in 40 days?
> Be logical.


Why would her be at the target building and not at the sight where your bombs fell? chitaak bhar aqal istamaal kar liya kar!


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## ziaulislam

Dark1 said:


> All this validation from western unknown "experts" was not required if Pakistan army had given immediate access to the madrassa, like it gave to the hillside. No smoke without fire.
> 
> And giving me a negative for above comments ? Wow.


why would they so that can be used as a source of propaganda. Externally anyone could see the madrasa it was standing just inside acess wasnt provided

anyone who has vision can see clearly from satellite images that bomb missed by considerable distance..the debate is was it on purpose or incompetence.
I initially thought it was on purpose so did most of the observers but now we know it was incompetence


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## Telescopic Sight

HRK said:


> attention seeking *whore *is doing her best stunts ......



When I was growing up in India , I would often hear this crude and vulgar language from the mouths of children of the maids , watchmen and gardeners.

Surprised to see that the Pakistani equivalents have grown up and now have the ability to give negative ratings on this forum.

Keep it up. You are showing your family background clearly to the rest of the members.

@WebMaster : Congratulations on the attempts at social engineering. Not sure if you intended these results.

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## HRK



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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> When I was growing up in India , I would often hear this crude and vulgar language from the mouths of children of the maids , watchmen and gardeners.
> 
> Surprised to see that the Pakistani equivalents have grown up and now have the ability to give negative ratings on this forum.
> 
> Keep it up. You are showing your family background clearly to the rest of the members.
> 
> @WebMaster : Congratulations on the attempts at social engineering. Not sure if you intended these results.



In US almost every sentence starts with F88K MF SOB whore B11ch and ends with it so dont know which part of US u live in.


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## Telescopic Sight

Myth_buster_1 said:


> In US almost every sentence starts with F88K MF SOB whore B11ch and ends with it so dont know which part of US u live in.



Wow, I have to learn about the US from 2 Pakistanis, after living, studying and earning a living here since 1999 ! You and the 'Negative' chap must be related 

Clearly you have no idea that decent ,well educated and god fearing families also live here in the US. Your comment plus your location flag speaks volumes about your background and status in the US. Gas pump, halal shop, what is it ?


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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> Wow, I have to learn about the US from 2 Pakistanis, after living, studying and earning a living here since 1999 ! You and the 'Negative' chap must be related


Maybe your social gathering is confined to your cubicle.


> Clearly you have no idea that decent ,well educated and god fearing families also live here in the US. Your comment plus your location flag speaks volumes about your background and status in the US. Gas pump, halal shop, what is it ?


You should drown yourself in shame. Maybe in India you have cast system and low end jobs are looked upon as untouchable but here in US everyone is treated equally and not discriminated of their professional status. 
Btw are you suggesting that educated people in India dont swear? DO you even know what u r arguing about or u r just running ur f1lthy mouth.

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## Telescopic Sight

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Maybe your social gathering is confined to your cubicle.
> 
> You should drown yourself in shame. Maybe in India you have cast system and low end jobs are looked upon as untouchable but here in US everyone is treated equally and not discriminated of their professional status.
> Btw are you suggesting that educated people in India dont swear? DO you even know what u r arguing about or u r just running ur f1lthy mouth.



Am I using any poorly chosen words ? Or is it you and your countryman? And I'm glad that you also see that HRK is swearing and cursing.

I respect all low end job workers. Who knows , you may have pumped gas for me in NJ, when I drove through the state. Small world.


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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> Am I using any poorly chosen words ? Or is it you and your countryman? And I'm glad that you also see that HRK is swearing and cursing.





> I respect all low end job workers. Who knows , you may have pumped gas for me in NJ, when I drove through the state. Small world.


Yeah, i was the one who pumped cow urine in your water bottle that you left at the counter while you went to pump gas in your car (since all gas station in US is self service ) and then you got a sandwich for .99 cents that i specially prepared for you after i took a huge dump on it.


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## Telescopic Sight

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Yeah, i was the one who pumped cow urine in your water bottle that you left at the counter while you went to pump gas in your car (since all gas station in US is self service ) and then you got a sandwich for .99 cents that i specially prepared for you after i took a huge dump on it.




False Flag proved by yourself  !

https://www.simplemost.com/states-wont-let-pump-gas/

So pathetic that you waste your pre-teen study time on this forum, pretending to know anything about America.
Tell us, how old are you ? Why you do claim to live in the US ? Where are you actually ? Is Google NOT free in the country you live in ? Why were you unable to search about NJ gas laws before replying ?
What a crappy situation you have put yourself into. Caught lying so badly. This shows what a trash job you do in the other threads you have created. And why you get crushed by Indian members who make so much fun of you.


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## Mugwop

HRK said:


>

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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> False Flag proved by yourself  !
> 
> https://www.simplemost.com/states-wont-let-pump-gas/
> 
> So pathetic that you waste your pre-teen study time on this forum, pretending to know anything about America.
> Tell us, how old are you ? Why you do claim to live in the US ? Where are you actually ? Is Google NOT free in the country you live in ? Why were you unable to search about NJ gas laws before replying ?
> What a crappy situation you have put yourself into. Caught lying so badly. This shows what a trash job you do in the other threads you have created. And why you get crushed by Indian members who make so much fun of you.



Why would I fking care which state lets you pump your own gas? Here is your cookie now. average americans cant even locate US on map so its irrelevant for me to know NJ laws since I dont even live their.
Being an indiot that you are, you are more then welcome to imagine what ever you want just like your DP.


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## Nomad40

Telescopic Sight said:


> False Flag proved by yourself  !
> 
> https://www.simplemost.com/states-wont-let-pump-gas/
> 
> So pathetic that you waste your pre-teen study time on this forum, pretending to know anything about America.
> Tell us, how old are you ? Why you do claim to live in the US ? Where are you actually ? Is Google NOT free in the country you live in ? Why were you unable to search about NJ gas laws before replying ?
> What a crappy situation you have put yourself into. Caught lying so badly. This shows what a trash job you do in the other threads you have created. And why you get crushed by Indian members who make so much fun of you.


are you indian you deff speak like the Indian


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## Myth_buster_1

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> are you indian you deff speak like the Indian


he is indeed an indiot. he is too ashamed to show his Indian flag ever since his Nation was send back to stone age on 27th feb.

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## Nomad40

Myth_buster_1 said:


> he is indeed an indiot. he is too ashamed to show his Indian flag ever since his Nation was send back to stone age on 27th feb.


See these mfs dont answer me when I ask them a question probably scared even though i-am a really nice guy. But they always come running looking for useless unjustified answers.

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## Telescopic Sight

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> See these mfs dont answer me when I ask them a question probably scared even though i-am a really nice guy. But they always come running looking for useless unjustified answers.



Unlike you teenagers who have their moms bringing them food to their gaming desk, where they live their make-believe lives, I actually have a full time job . Even in these quarantine days, I am working 9 hours a day. So please carry on your incel , permanent-virgin existences.
And the 1st pre teen who claims to live in the US, you only have reduced your posts to comedy. Why did I even waste 50 secs reading your air safety crap ?


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## Nomad40

Telescopic Sight said:


> Unlike you teenagers who have their moms bringing them food to their gaming desk, where they live their make-believe lives, I actually have a full time job . Even in these quarantine days, I am working 9 hours a day. So please carry on your incel , permanent-virgin existences.
> And the 1st pre teen who claims to live in the US, you only have reduced your posts to comedy. Why did I even waste 50 secs reading your air safety crap ?



Bruh you got shitty job honestly I am getting paid and have scholarship and I took off from work for like 45-days have 2 job offers waiting on the table I work fr my money too, no offence but dont diss me like that because if you mess with the bull you get the horns.

Yeah I am 20 but I think I-am doing good for 20.

any ways cheers and stay safe corona is a mf spreading like a wild fire.


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## Raider 21

Telescopic Sight said:


> Unlike you teenagers who have their moms bringing them food to their gaming desk, where they live their make-believe lives, I actually have a full time job . Even in these quarantine days, I am working 9 hours a day. So please carry on your incel , permanent-virgin existences.
> And the 1st pre teen who claims to live in the US, you only have reduced your posts to comedy. Why did I even waste 50 secs reading your air safety crap ?


Take it easy. We are all in that boat. I assume sure your wife is bringing food to your kids. Man up about your full-time job and keep that pride to yourself. Good for you.



Telescopic Sight said:


> HAHAHAHA !! If that isn't a cringey 15 year old talking, I don't know what is!! How do I know ? I am a dad too !!
> 
> Log out, go downstairs and help your parents with the home chores.


Behave like a dad then and address him like an adult


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## Telescopic Sight

Knuckles said:


> Take it easy. We are all in that boat. I assume sure your wife is bringing food to your kids. Man up about your full-time job and keep that pride to yourself. Good for you.



Sorry that you missed the genius level posts that are being written to me. These days its hard to cope up with INCEL defence experts ( see earlier posts by them ) . 

You are a better man than me if you can reply gently to these clowns. 

And BTW, you assume wrong. Kids better make their own sandwich. Old folks be earning the dineros.


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## Nomad40

Telescopic Sight said:


> Sorry that you missed the genius level posts that are being written to me. These days its hard to cope up with INCEL defence experts ( see earlier posts by them ) .
> 
> You are a better man than me if you can reply gently to these clowns.
> 
> And BTW, you assume wrong. Kids better make their own sandwich. Old folks be earning the dineros.



@Telescopic Sight 

Never claimed to be a defense expert, look up my posts.

I just made some bomb Keema 1 onion small, 1 tea spoon ginger 1.5 teaspoon garlic, shan keema masala mix extra black pepper 1 whole desi green pepper (look like Jamaican peppers) chopped coriander 2 teaspoon oil and viola FRY KEEMA.

Yes i am a class clown but you will be happy to know even my profs love that.

Iam here for you okay.

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## Trailer23

*Not much has changed for IAF a year after it was outgunned by Pakistan*​
*India has made some progress in moving to acquire fighters, tech and equipment but it is yet to get its hands on any.*

SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP
27 February, 2020

*New Delhi:* A year after Pakistan outgunned and outnumbered the Indian Air Force on 27 February through “Ops Swift Retort”, not much has changed on the ground.

Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places.

From limitations of the Su 30 MKI radar to pick up enemy fighters properly to the technical issue faced by the Mirage 2000 aircraft over firing their Mica air-to-air missile, *the list of the shortcomings that the IAF experienced is long.*

*If Pakistan were to repeat the “Swift Retort” today, the situation doesn’t look great even a year later.*

There is, however, a silver lining — the Rafale fighter jets, to be equipped with better weapons package, especially the Meteor air-to-air missile that tilts the scales in India’s favour against both Pakistan and China, will start arriving May onwards.

Neither Pakistan nor China at present has a missile to counter the Meteor, which has a range of nearly 150 km — it’s much higher than the American AMRAAM that had outgunned the Sukhois with a range of over 70 km.

This means that a Rafale would be able to take out an enemy aircraft 150 km away in air without even having to cross the Indian air space.

But it will take at least a year for the first four Rafales to be completely operationalised with their weapons system.

Also, the much-needed Software Defined Radios (SDR) have finally been ordered from Israel which will help secure communication without fear of jamming.

*Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was shot down after he failed to hear command to retreat given by the ground-based command centre because of jamming carried out by the Pakistan Air Force.*

India is also in the process of clearing the acquisition of two more PHALCON AWACS, which will help the IAF have round-the-clock eye in the sky.

The lack of more AWACS was felt during the 27 February aerial dual when Pakistan, which operates about 10 such systems, took advantage of the changeover of the IAF’s eye in the sky.

The only actual change that has taken place on the ground is that the MiG 29 has been replaced with the Su 30 MKI as the additional fighter at the Srinagar base that houses the 51 Squadron of the MiG 21 Bisons.

However, plans to permanently base the Su 30 MKI cannot be implemented immediately because the hangars in Srinagar can’t accommodate the giant Russian fighters, defence sources told ThePrint.

This means that the Sukhois will have to fly in from other bases in case of yet another skirmish.

*How Pakistan retaliated for Balakot*

Around 8:45 am on 27 February, the first signs of a possible attack emerged as Pakistan shut down its civilian airspace and stopped all commercial flights.

About half-an-hour later, multiple Pakistan fighter jets, *perfectly timed with the changeover of IAF AWACS*, started taking off from different bases.

At that particular moment, only two Su 30 MKI in the south of the Pir Panjal and two upgraded Mirage 2000, north of the mountains, were doing the Combat Air Patrol (CAP).

The Pakistani package of 25 fighters, including the F 16s and the Mirages, made their way towards the LoC but did not cross the mutually agreed 10 km cut-off point for fighters. [notice the article doesn't mention the JF-17 & talk about the F-16 being part of the Package]

A few Pakistani fighters took off in the direction of the international border with Rajasthan in a bid to trick India, just like India had done the previous day.

Leading the Pakistan strike package was the F-16s armed with the AMRAAMs. [basically what they're trying to say is that we won the Battle on the 27th of Feb. because of Raytheon's prized missile] 

The American-built fighters moved towards the south of the Pir Panjal while the Mirages moved towards where the other two Indian fighters were flying. [still no mention of JF-17]

*What went wrong*

Sources said the Indian fighters were simply outnumbered.

The Sukhois with their R-77 missiles, which have a range that’s shorter than the AMRAAMs, were no match for the F-16s that had better air-to-air weapons.

Sources said one Sukhoi was fired upon by the F-16s and had to take high-speed maneouvres to outgun the AMRAAMs.

The second Sukhoi too took tactical action keeping in mind that they were told by the Barnala-based Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) that AMRAAMs were being fired.

*The second Sukhoi had also failed to properly pick up the enemy fighters through its radars.*

On the northern side of the Pir Panjal, the upgraded Mirages on CAP duty were outnumbered completely. They had also faced a technical glitch because of which they could not engage Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with the MICA air-to-air missiles that have a better range than the ones used by PAF in that sector. [technical glitch, huh. Yeah we dads use that term when we gotta deal with a diaper-leak in the Food Court.]

*Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi *

Realising that the Indian fighters were outgunned and outnumbered, the Barnala-based IACCS ordered the scrambling of six MiG-21s.

Since the MiGs climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, Pakistan’s AWAC failed to detect them. The sudden appearance of the MiGs proved to be a blessing for India, as the Pakistani fighters were taken aback.

Panicked Pakistani pilots, who broke into Punjabi rather than sticking to the military codes, fired about 11 H-4 glide-bombs, weighing 1,000 kg each, at Indian military installations, none of which hit the target.

The MiG pilots were then asked to “go hot”, meaning they had to go in for a missile lock on enemy aircraft. But the MiGs soon came within the firing range of the F-16s, and they were asked to “turn cold”, meaning they were to retreat.

However, Wing Commander Varthaman, who had gone too close to the LoC, could not hear the command as Pakistan had jammed radio frequencies.

In his pursuit of locking on to a Pakistani fighter, Varthaman crossed the LoC and was within the firing range of Pakistani fighters.

*--------------------------------------------------------------*​
Once you're done reading this, feel free to listen to this



.

According to him, there weren't 6, but *16 Mirages on the Balakot Strike* on the 26th of Feb, and mentions some other bum...I mean bomb called Crystal Meth...or something.





@Horus @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
@airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @ARMalik @Armchair @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @krash @Khanivore @Knuckles @loanranger @maximuswarrior @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
@assasiner @PakSword @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Counter-Errorist

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## HRK

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 615230​
> *Not much has changed for IAF a year after it was outgunned by Pakistan*​
> *India has made some progress in moving to acquire fighters, tech and equipment but it is yet to get its hands on any.*
> 
> SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP
> 27 February, 2020
> 
> *New Delhi:* A year after Pakistan outgunned and outnumbered the Indian Air Force on 27 February through “Ops Swift Retort”, not much has changed on the ground.
> 
> Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places.
> 
> From limitations of the Su 30 MKI radar to pick up enemy fighters properly to the technical issue faced by the Mirage 2000 aircraft over firing their Mica air-to-air missile, *the list of the shortcomings that the IAF experienced is long.*
> 
> *If Pakistan were to repeat the “Swift Retort” today, the situation doesn’t look great even a year later.*
> 
> There is, however, a silver lining — the Rafale fighter jets, to be equipped with better weapons package, especially the Meteor air-to-air missile that tilts the scales in India’s favour against both Pakistan and China, will start arriving May onwards.
> 
> Neither Pakistan nor China at present has a missile to counter the Meteor, which has a range of nearly 150 km — it’s much higher than the American AMRAAM that had outgunned the Sukhois with a range of over 70 km.
> 
> This means that a Rafale would be able to take out an enemy aircraft 150 km away in air without even having to cross the Indian air space.
> 
> But it will take at least a year for the first four Rafales to be completely operationalised with their weapons system.
> 
> Also, the much-needed Software Defined Radios (SDR) have finally been ordered from Israel which will help secure communication without fear of jamming.
> 
> *Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was shot down after he failed to hear command to retreat given by the ground-based command centre because of jamming carried out by the Pakistan Air Force.*
> 
> India is also in the process of clearing the acquisition of two more PHALCON AWACS, which will help the IAF have round-the-clock eye in the sky.
> 
> The lack of more AWACS was felt during the 27 February aerial dual when Pakistan, which operates about 10 such systems, took advantage of the changeover of the IAF’s eye in the sky.
> 
> The only actual change that has taken place on the ground is that the MiG 29 has been replaced with the Su 30 MKI as the additional fighter at the Srinagar base that houses the 51 Squadron of the MiG 21 Bisons.
> 
> However, plans to permanently base the Su 30 MKI cannot be implemented immediately because the hangars in Srinagar can’t accommodate the giant Russian fighters, defence sources told ThePrint.
> 
> This means that the Sukhois will have to fly in from other bases in case of yet another skirmish.
> 
> *How Pakistan retaliated for Balakot*
> 
> Around 8:45 am on 27 February, the first signs of a possible attack emerged as Pakistan shut down its civilian airspace and stopped all commercial flights.
> 
> About half-an-hour later, multiple Pakistan fighter jets, *perfectly timed with the changeover of IAF AWACS*, started taking off from different bases.
> 
> At that particular moment, only two Su 30 MKI in the south of the Pir Panjal and two upgraded Mirage 2000, north of the mountains, were doing the Combat Air Patrol (CAP).
> 
> The Pakistani package of 25 fighters, including the F 16s and the Mirages, made their way towards the LoC but did not cross the mutually agreed 10 km cut-off point for fighters. [notice the article doesn't mention the JF-17 & talk about the F-16 being part of the Package]
> 
> A few Pakistani fighters took off in the direction of the international border with Rajasthan in a bid to trick India, just like India had done the previous day.
> 
> Leading the Pakistan strike package was the F-16s armed with the AMRAAMs. [basically what they're trying to say is that we won the Battle on the 27th of Feb. because of Raytheon's prized missile]
> 
> The American-built fighters moved towards the south of the Pir Panjal while the Mirages moved towards where the other two Indian fighters were flying. [still no mention of JF-17]
> 
> *What went wrong*
> 
> Sources said the Indian fighters were simply outnumbered.
> 
> The Sukhois with their R-77 missiles, which have a range that’s shorter than the AMRAAMs, were no match for the F-16s that had better air-to-air weapons.
> 
> Sources said one Sukhoi was fired upon by the F-16s and had to take high-speed maneouvres to outgun the AMRAAMs.
> 
> The second Sukhoi too took tactical action keeping in mind that they were told by the Barnala-based Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) that AMRAAMs were being fired.
> 
> *The second Sukhoi had also failed to properly pick up the enemy fighters through its radars.*
> 
> On the northern side of the Pir Panjal, the upgraded Mirages on CAP duty were outnumbered completely. They had also faced a technical glitch because of which they could not engage Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with the MICA air-to-air missiles that have a better range than the ones used by PAF in that sector. [technical glitch, huh. Yeah we dads use that term when we gotta deal with a diaper-leak in the Food Court.]
> 
> *Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi *
> 
> Realising that the Indian fighters were outgunned and outnumbered, the Barnala-based IACCS ordered the scrambling of six MiG-21s.
> 
> Since the MiGs climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, Pakistan’s AWAC failed to detect them. The sudden appearance of the MiGs proved to be a blessing for India, as the Pakistani fighters were taken aback.
> 
> Panicked Pakistani pilots, who broke into Punjabi rather than sticking to the military codes, fired about 11 H-4 glide-bombs, weighing 1,000 kg each, at Indian military installations, none of which hit the target.
> 
> The MiG pilots were then asked to “go hot”, meaning they had to go in for a missile lock on enemy aircraft. But the MiGs soon came within the firing range of the F-16s, and they were asked to “turn cold”, meaning they were to retreat.
> 
> However, Wing Commander Varthaman, who had gone too close to the LoC, could not hear the command as Pakistan had jammed radio frequencies.
> 
> In his pursuit of locking on to a Pakistani fighter, Varthaman crossed the LoC and was within the firing range of Pakistani fighters.
> 
> *--------------------------------------------------------------*​
> Once you're done reading this, feel free to listen to this
> View attachment 615237
> .
> 
> According to him, there weren't 6, but *16 Mirages on the Balakot Strike* on the 26th of Feb, and mentions some other bum...I mean bomb called Crystal Meth...or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @ARMalik @Armchair @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @krash @Khanivore @Knuckles @loanranger @maximuswarrior @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @PakSword @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Counter-Errorist


these clowns are creating stories after stories so that somehow they can at least find one fig leaf to hid their national embarrassment, rather to pay any attention it is better to remind them previous versions of the same events by their sides .....

Reactions: Like Like:
8


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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 615230​
> *Not much has changed for IAF a year after it was outgunned by Pakistan*​
> *India has made some progress in moving to acquire fighters, tech and equipment but it is yet to get its hands on any.*
> 
> SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP
> 27 February, 2020
> 
> *New Delhi:* A year after Pakistan outgunned and outnumbered the Indian Air Force on 27 February through “Ops Swift Retort”, not much has changed on the ground.
> 
> Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places.
> 
> From limitations of the Su 30 MKI radar to pick up enemy fighters properly to the technical issue faced by the Mirage 2000 aircraft over firing their Mica air-to-air missile, *the list of the shortcomings that the IAF experienced is long.*
> 
> *If Pakistan were to repeat the “Swift Retort” today, the situation doesn’t look great even a year later.*
> 
> There is, however, a silver lining — the Rafale fighter jets, to be equipped with better weapons package, especially the Meteor air-to-air missile that tilts the scales in India’s favour against both Pakistan and China, will start arriving May onwards.
> 
> Neither Pakistan nor China at present has a missile to counter the Meteor, which has a range of nearly 150 km — it’s much higher than the American AMRAAM that had outgunned the Sukhois with a range of over 70 km.
> 
> This means that a Rafale would be able to take out an enemy aircraft 150 km away in air without even having to cross the Indian air space.
> 
> But it will take at least a year for the first four Rafales to be completely operationalised with their weapons system.
> 
> Also, the much-needed Software Defined Radios (SDR) have finally been ordered from Israel which will help secure communication without fear of jamming.
> 
> *Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was shot down after he failed to hear command to retreat given by the ground-based command centre because of jamming carried out by the Pakistan Air Force.*
> 
> India is also in the process of clearing the acquisition of two more PHALCON AWACS, which will help the IAF have round-the-clock eye in the sky.
> 
> The lack of more AWACS was felt during the 27 February aerial dual when Pakistan, which operates about 10 such systems, took advantage of the changeover of the IAF’s eye in the sky.
> 
> The only actual change that has taken place on the ground is that the MiG 29 has been replaced with the Su 30 MKI as the additional fighter at the Srinagar base that houses the 51 Squadron of the MiG 21 Bisons.
> 
> However, plans to permanently base the Su 30 MKI cannot be implemented immediately because the hangars in Srinagar can’t accommodate the giant Russian fighters, defence sources told ThePrint.
> 
> This means that the Sukhois will have to fly in from other bases in case of yet another skirmish.
> 
> *How Pakistan retaliated for Balakot*
> 
> Around 8:45 am on 27 February, the first signs of a possible attack emerged as Pakistan shut down its civilian airspace and stopped all commercial flights.
> 
> About half-an-hour later, multiple Pakistan fighter jets, *perfectly timed with the changeover of IAF AWACS*, started taking off from different bases.
> 
> At that particular moment, only two Su 30 MKI in the south of the Pir Panjal and two upgraded Mirage 2000, north of the mountains, were doing the Combat Air Patrol (CAP).
> 
> The Pakistani package of 25 fighters, including the F 16s and the Mirages, made their way towards the LoC but did not cross the mutually agreed 10 km cut-off point for fighters. [notice the article doesn't mention the JF-17 & talk about the F-16 being part of the Package]
> 
> A few Pakistani fighters took off in the direction of the international border with Rajasthan in a bid to trick India, just like India had done the previous day.
> 
> Leading the Pakistan strike package was the F-16s armed with the AMRAAMs. [basically what they're trying to say is that we won the Battle on the 27th of Feb. because of Raytheon's prized missile]
> 
> The American-built fighters moved towards the south of the Pir Panjal while the Mirages moved towards where the other two Indian fighters were flying. [still no mention of JF-17]
> 
> *What went wrong*
> 
> Sources said the Indian fighters were simply outnumbered.
> 
> The Sukhois with their R-77 missiles, which have a range that’s shorter than the AMRAAMs, were no match for the F-16s that had better air-to-air weapons.
> 
> Sources said one Sukhoi was fired upon by the F-16s and had to take high-speed maneouvres to outgun the AMRAAMs.
> 
> The second Sukhoi too took tactical action keeping in mind that they were told by the Barnala-based Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) that AMRAAMs were being fired.
> 
> *The second Sukhoi had also failed to properly pick up the enemy fighters through its radars.*
> 
> On the northern side of the Pir Panjal, the upgraded Mirages on CAP duty were outnumbered completely. They had also faced a technical glitch because of which they could not engage Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with the MICA air-to-air missiles that have a better range than the ones used by PAF in that sector. [technical glitch, huh. Yeah we dads use that term when we gotta deal with a diaper-leak in the Food Court.]
> 
> *Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi *
> 
> Realising that the Indian fighters were outgunned and outnumbered, the Barnala-based IACCS ordered the scrambling of six MiG-21s.
> 
> Since the MiGs climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, Pakistan’s AWAC failed to detect them. The sudden appearance of the MiGs proved to be a blessing for India, as the Pakistani fighters were taken aback.
> 
> Panicked Pakistani pilots, who broke into Punjabi rather than sticking to the military codes, fired about 11 H-4 glide-bombs, weighing 1,000 kg each, at Indian military installations, none of which hit the target.
> 
> The MiG pilots were then asked to “go hot”, meaning they had to go in for a missile lock on enemy aircraft. But the MiGs soon came within the firing range of the F-16s, and they were asked to “turn cold”, meaning they were to retreat.
> 
> However, Wing Commander Varthaman, who had gone too close to the LoC, could not hear the command as Pakistan had jammed radio frequencies.
> 
> In his pursuit of locking on to a Pakistani fighter, Varthaman crossed the LoC and was within the firing range of Pakistani fighters.
> 
> *--------------------------------------------------------------*​
> Once you're done reading this, feel free to listen to this
> View attachment 615237
> .
> 
> According to him, there weren't 6, but *16 Mirages on the Balakot Strike* on the 26th of Feb, and mentions some other bum...I mean bomb called Crystal Meth...or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @ARMalik @Armchair @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @krash @Khanivore @Knuckles @loanranger @maximuswarrior @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @PakSword @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Counter-Errorist


one cannot compete with indians when it comes to churning out manure.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## Windjammer

They asked what’s the best thing in your possession..... I said Nandus ***.... they were confused so I showed them this.

Reactions: Like Like:
16


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## graphican

Listen to this stupid Nation of Hindustan, now they would throw 2 bombs different bombs at the targets to prove that they had hit them . 

LOL on India.


----------



## Stealth

India will never forgets 27Feb ... lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Imran Khan

HRK said:


> these clowns are creating stories after stories so that somehow they can at least find one fig leaf to hid their national embarrassment, rather to pay any attention it is better to remind them previous versions of the same events by their sides .....


just wait few years sir they will declare a victory and will start celebrating it too .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## crankthatskunk

The Print is a new propaganda platform of the Indians. 
His head that baldy with moustache is a cartoon, whose sermons are very difficult to bear. 
I responded to his BS on the twitter. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237336606106935296
The problem is our journalists are useless, they cannot speak English properly, while Indians mostly spew their propaganda in English to the world. 

Every time I see Sabir Shakir reading something in English, I throw up. 
Forget about him, even Dr Danish spoken English is laughable. 
None of them should be on TV screens. But unfortunately they are. 
On top of it, Pakistani journalists spread fake news, even when it is proven, no actions ever taken against them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NA71

crankthatskunk said:


> The Print is a new propaganda platform of the Indians.
> His head that baldy with moustache is a cartoon, whose sermons are very difficult to bear.
> I responded to his BS on the twitter.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237336606106935296
> The problem is our journalists are useless, they cannot speak English properly, while Indians mostly spew their propaganda in English to the world.
> 
> Every time I see Sabir Shakir reading something in English, I throw up.
> Forget about him, even Dr Danish spoken English is laughable.
> None of them should be on TV screens. But unfortunately they are.
> On top of it, Pakistani journalists spread fake news, even when it is proven, no actions ever taken against them.



Mostly because our journalists are B.A. passed money driven with politically biased mindset ...they tilt their Pens where money flows. They can't speak Urdu properly...English tu dor ki baat hy.


----------



## F86 Saber

If any of you have seen the last episode of the drama serial Ehd-e-Wafa, when Humayun Saeed (Playing the Lt. Colonel who interviewed Nandu as Major) is briefing his troops about the incident, he says that Nandu initially refused to talk but then blurted out everything and the "I am not supposed to tell you that" video was released to help him save face. Since this serial has been produced by ISPR, dialogues about the incident mus have been approved by someone at ISPR. Does this mean Nandu spilled his guts when confronted?


----------



## ziaulislam

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 615230​
> *Not much has changed for IAF a year after it was outgunned by Pakistan*​
> *India has made some progress in moving to acquire fighters, tech and equipment but it is yet to get its hands on any.*
> 
> SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP
> 27 February, 2020
> 
> *New Delhi:* A year after Pakistan outgunned and outnumbered the Indian Air Force on 27 February through “Ops Swift Retort”, not much has changed on the ground.
> 
> Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places.
> 
> From limitations of the Su 30 MKI radar to pick up enemy fighters properly to the technical issue faced by the Mirage 2000 aircraft over firing their Mica air-to-air missile, *the list of the shortcomings that the IAF experienced is long.*
> 
> *If Pakistan were to repeat the “Swift Retort” today, the situation doesn’t look great even a year later.*
> 
> There is, however, a silver lining — the Rafale fighter jets, to be equipped with better weapons package, especially the Meteor air-to-air missile that tilts the scales in India’s favour against both Pakistan and China, will start arriving May onwards.
> 
> Neither Pakistan nor China at present has a missile to counter the Meteor, which has a range of nearly 150 km — it’s much higher than the American AMRAAM that had outgunned the Sukhois with a range of over 70 km.
> 
> This means that a Rafale would be able to take out an enemy aircraft 150 km away in air without even having to cross the Indian air space.
> 
> But it will take at least a year for the first four Rafales to be completely operationalised with their weapons system.
> 
> Also, the much-needed Software Defined Radios (SDR) have finally been ordered from Israel which will help secure communication without fear of jamming.
> 
> *Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was shot down after he failed to hear command to retreat given by the ground-based command centre because of jamming carried out by the Pakistan Air Force.*
> 
> India is also in the process of clearing the acquisition of two more PHALCON AWACS, which will help the IAF have round-the-clock eye in the sky.
> 
> The lack of more AWACS was felt during the 27 February aerial dual when Pakistan, which operates about 10 such systems, took advantage of the changeover of the IAF’s eye in the sky.
> 
> The only actual change that has taken place on the ground is that the MiG 29 has been replaced with the Su 30 MKI as the additional fighter at the Srinagar base that houses the 51 Squadron of the MiG 21 Bisons.
> 
> However, plans to permanently base the Su 30 MKI cannot be implemented immediately because the hangars in Srinagar can’t accommodate the giant Russian fighters, defence sources told ThePrint.
> 
> This means that the Sukhois will have to fly in from other bases in case of yet another skirmish.
> 
> *How Pakistan retaliated for Balakot*
> 
> Around 8:45 am on 27 February, the first signs of a possible attack emerged as Pakistan shut down its civilian airspace and stopped all commercial flights.
> 
> About half-an-hour later, multiple Pakistan fighter jets, *perfectly timed with the changeover of IAF AWACS*, started taking off from different bases.
> 
> At that particular moment, only two Su 30 MKI in the south of the Pir Panjal and two upgraded Mirage 2000, north of the mountains, were doing the Combat Air Patrol (CAP).
> 
> The Pakistani package of 25 fighters, including the F 16s and the Mirages, made their way towards the LoC but did not cross the mutually agreed 10 km cut-off point for fighters. [notice the article doesn't mention the JF-17 & talk about the F-16 being part of the Package]
> 
> A few Pakistani fighters took off in the direction of the international border with Rajasthan in a bid to trick India, just like India had done the previous day.
> 
> Leading the Pakistan strike package was the F-16s armed with the AMRAAMs. [basically what they're trying to say is that we won the Battle on the 27th of Feb. because of Raytheon's prized missile]
> 
> The American-built fighters moved towards the south of the Pir Panjal while the Mirages moved towards where the other two Indian fighters were flying. [still no mention of JF-17]
> 
> *What went wrong*
> 
> Sources said the Indian fighters were simply outnumbered.
> 
> The Sukhois with their R-77 missiles, which have a range that’s shorter than the AMRAAMs, were no match for the F-16s that had better air-to-air weapons.
> 
> Sources said one Sukhoi was fired upon by the F-16s and had to take high-speed maneouvres to outgun the AMRAAMs.
> 
> The second Sukhoi too took tactical action keeping in mind that they were told by the Barnala-based Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) that AMRAAMs were being fired.
> 
> *The second Sukhoi had also failed to properly pick up the enemy fighters through its radars.*
> 
> On the northern side of the Pir Panjal, the upgraded Mirages on CAP duty were outnumbered completely. They had also faced a technical glitch because of which they could not engage Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with the MICA air-to-air missiles that have a better range than the ones used by PAF in that sector. [technical glitch, huh. Yeah we dads use that term when we gotta deal with a diaper-leak in the Food Court.]
> 
> *Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi *
> 
> Realising that the Indian fighters were outgunned and outnumbered, the Barnala-based IACCS ordered the scrambling of six MiG-21s.
> 
> Since the MiGs climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, Pakistan’s AWAC failed to detect them. The sudden appearance of the MiGs proved to be a blessing for India, as the Pakistani fighters were taken aback.
> 
> Panicked Pakistani pilots, who broke into Punjabi rather than sticking to the military codes, fired about 11 H-4 glide-bombs, weighing 1,000 kg each, at Indian military installations, none of which hit the target.
> 
> The MiG pilots were then asked to “go hot”, meaning they had to go in for a missile lock on enemy aircraft. But the MiGs soon came within the firing range of the F-16s, and they were asked to “turn cold”, meaning they were to retreat.
> 
> However, Wing Commander Varthaman, who had gone too close to the LoC, could not hear the command as Pakistan had jammed radio frequencies.
> 
> In his pursuit of locking on to a Pakistani fighter, Varthaman crossed the LoC and was within the firing range of Pakistani fighters.
> 
> *--------------------------------------------------------------*​
> Once you're done reading this, feel free to listen to this
> View attachment 615237
> .
> 
> According to him, there weren't 6, but *16 Mirages on the Balakot Strike* on the 26th of Feb, and mentions some other bum...I mean bomb called Crystal Meth...or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Khafee @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @airomerix @Ahmet Pasha @ARMalik @Armchair @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Dil Pakistan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @krash @Khanivore @Knuckles @loanranger @maximuswarrior @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> @assasiner @PakSword @aliyusuf @PDFChamp @Ghessan @Metanoia @Counter-Errorist


Why the hell is print.in have the image of THEIR FAILURE in the background...like they missed their targets


----------



## TsAr

crankthatskunk said:


> The Print is a new propaganda platform of the Indians.
> His head that baldy with moustache is a cartoon, whose sermons are very difficult to bear.
> I responded to his BS on the twitter.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237336606106935296
> The problem is our journalists are useless, they cannot speak English properly, while Indians mostly spew their propaganda in English to the world.
> 
> Every time I see Sabir Shakir reading something in English, I throw up.
> Forget about him, even Dr Danish spoken English is laughable.
> None of them should be on TV screens. But unfortunately they are.
> On top of it, Pakistani journalists spread fake news, even when it is proven, no actions ever taken against them.


A few who can speak English are anti Army.....


----------



## Haris Ali2140

TsAr said:


> A few who can speak English are anti Army.....


There is an English channel "Indus News". Its good.

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## Trailer23

You know if we were to compile all the Indian Military/Media narratives from the 27th of Feb. to the present day, this is what we'd end up with...





Their claims & theories have more holes than a Swiss-cheese.

Though Pakistan has been consistent from the get go, the only thing Indians seem to remember are (former) DG-ISPR words about 'dusra Pilot'.

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## Ghessan

this stuff will keep coming and coming, is the evidence itself how badly they are hurt and deep.
the amazing thing is "*Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi"* by Mig-21s? while their fourth gen Mirage and SUs ran with tails in the legs? i wonder what panicked them?
and thanks for this post @Trailer23 let us keep posting these articles and videos and enjoy the guilt out their a**es to which no one care out in the world but if it satisfies their egos let them do and we are quite content.

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## untitled

Ghessan said:


> *Panicked PAF pilots break into Punjabi"* by Mig-21s?


IAF pilots after returning to base after "dodging amraams":

Pilot: 1: "Khem cho?"
Pilot 2: (Heavy panting) "Maza mein"

Probably that's why the renamed the Trump event

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## TheTallGuy

This requires/needs a verification..

Is that true after 26th/27th FEB Pakistan Govt. issued a warning that any IAF aircraft approaching IB or LOC in vicinity of 25km will be treated hostile and appropriate measures will be taken..normally in peacetime 10km barrier if broken scrambles or interception were launched. so if its true? how long it hold did IAF breach 25km since then? 

come to think of it...we have Enforced a NO-FLY-ZONE?

little birdie tells me ...they still dont come near 25km.

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## Nomad40

TheTallGuy said:


> This requires/needs a verification..
> 
> Is that true after 26th/27th FEB Pakistan Govt. issued a warning that any IAF aircraft approaching IB or LOC in vicinity of 25km will be treated hostile and appropriate measures will be taken..normally in peacetime 10km barrier if broken scrambles or interception were launched. so if its true? how long it hold did IAF breach 25km since then?
> 
> come to think of it...we have Enforced a NO-FLY-ZONE?
> 
> little birdie tells me ...they still dont come near 25km.


they better not break the rules.


----------



## mshan44




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## TheTallGuy

Look like Kaiser Tufail Sb have updated the article 
*Note*: Article revised on 2 March, 2020.

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/2019/06/pulwama-from-bluster-to-whimper.html

action on 26th Feb (IAF)
At 0130 hours (all times PST), on the morning of 26 February, a flight of sixteen IAF Mirage 2000 took off from their home base, Gwalior. The strike element in the formation included *six Mirage 2000H armed with one 900 kg Israeli-origin Spice 2000 bomb each*, and *four Mirage 2000H (out of the originally planned six) armed with one Israeli-origin Crystal Maze [1] missile each*. *Six upgraded Mirage 2000I, each armed with six MICA air-to-air missiles, escorted the strike package.* The Mirage 2000s, which had to traverse a distance of 1,000 km from Gwalior, were supported midway by an Il-78 in-flight refuelling tanker. One Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEWCS) aircraft provided surveillance support to the strike package.
While the Spice 2000 bombs could be launched in the autonomous GPS-assisted delivery mode, the Crystal Maze missiles had to be steered to the target by the pilot via data link, after launch. The TV/imaging infra-red camera in the nose of the Crystal Maze missile could not only provide a view to the pilot for steering it to the target, the dramatic terminal phase could be fed as live video to the revenge-hungry Indian public. 

The first of several snags hit the mission when cloud cover over all of Kashmir precluded employment of the Crystal Maze missiles, and *the four Mirage 2000H had to hold off in frustration.* The remaining formation sneaked in from a *south-easterly direction for a stand-off attack on a seminary at Jabba village near Balakot town*, close to the international border. At 0258 hours, six Mirages carrying the Spice 2000 bombs lobbed them, and broke off immediately. With the bombs’ stand-off range of over 60 km, there was no need to cross into Pakistani territory, as safety of their aircraft was of greater concern, than any qualms about international censure for violating Pakistan’s airspace. *In the event, the aircraft did ingress about 10 km into Azad Kashmir, ostensibly to drive home a point that India did not consider it as disputed territory.* Traversing about 40 km, five bombs fell in a forested area, a few hundred meters from the intended target, and decimated nothing more than a few pine trees.[2] F-16 and JF-17 fighters on patrol were promptly directed to intercept the intruders, but were restrained by the prevalent rules of engagement from crossing over into enemy territory. 

[1] Crystal Maze is a derivative of the Israeli Popeye missile. It weighs 1,100 kg (2,400 lb), and has a range of 80 km.

[2] The sixth bomb is said to have failed to release.

PAF OrBat on 27-Feb-19(Swift Retort)

Extensive Combat Air Patrols (CAP) were flown by the IAF, with surveillance support from ground radars, as well as an AEWCS aircraft anchored over Adampur. When the PAF did not show up till sunrise of 27 February, the IAF eased off from its highest alert state, and waited for the following night.* A pair of Su-30MKI was patrolling near Srinagar, while a pair of Mirage 2000I was patrolling east of Udhampur*. PAF’s deception worked splendidly when its strike package of four Mirage 5PA/IIIDA of No 15 Squadron and two JF-17 of No 16 Squadron, duly supported by a big swarm of escorts and patrolling fighters (a mix of F-16A/B and JF-17), cluttered the scopes of IAF’s ground radars at 0920 hours.[3] 

[3] Two pairs of fighters escorted the strike packages, while four sections of 4-ship fighters each, patrolled along the LOC. The F-16s were armed with 4xAIM-120C-5 and 2xAIM-9M missiles, while the JF-17s were armed with 2xSD-10 and 2xPL-5 missiles.

Meanwhile, higher in the skies, *the sole Su-30* remaining in the area flew helter-skelter, something quite baffling, considering that these are multi-crew fighters endowed with very powerful radars, and were armed to the teeth with an array of four R-77 active radar-guided BVR missiles, and four R-73 infra-red seeking dogfight missiles each. The Su-30 abruptly called ‘Bingo’ (low on fuel) and exited the area at high speed after only 25 minutes of flight, despite having an endurance of at least two hours while on routine air patrols. As per radio monitoring, it transpired that the *two Su-30s had earlier failed to synchronise their data links and had been unable to provide any mutual support by way of radar data sharing*.

In the on-going fracas, *the Mirage 2000 formation on patrol was pulled back*. *In all probability, this was done to prevent these high value aircraft from being targeted by more BVR shots*; *however, one is also inclined to believe that the panic-striken pilots may have opportunely declared some kind of weapon system failures. Whatever the reason, these state-of-the-art Mirages were of no help in warding off the PAF fighters, despite being equipped with MICA missiles that were comparable in performance to the F-16s’ AMRAAMs.* As for operational commanders on the ground, it needs no guessing that they had gone into a paralytic freeze, and needed time to gather their wits. When the decision for action finally came, *it was a pathetic one: to use the MiG-21 Bisons – virtually as cannon fodder, it may be added*.

At 0930 hours, *two pairs of MiG-21 Bisons of No 51 Squadron* were scrambled successively *from Srinagar and nearby Awantipur*, to boost up IAF’s diminishing presence in the air. A senior pilot, Wg Cdr Abhinandan ‘Nandu’ Varthaman (callsign ‘Alpha One’), along with *his wingman, Sqn Ldr Vyas*, *was directed by the ground radar to “turn 160 (degrees),” towards a patrolling pair of PAF fighters.* Flying low and masked by the Parmandal Range, Abhinandan had tried to pull a surprise by abruptly popping up from behind the hills. Apprehending PAF's snooping capabilities, he had even switched off his Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponder. He also kept his radar controller posted about his ground position by reporting it in pre-arranged codes. However, Abhinandan remained oblivious of the fact that unlike ground based radars, PAF's AEWCs and high flying fighters had no line of sight issues, and could clearly see him on their radars. Moments after he called out his ground position, "over LC (Line of Control)," Abhinandan’s MiG-21 was hit by an AIM-120C missile launched from an F-16 flown by Wg Cdr Noman Ali Khan, the Officer Commanding of No 29 ‘Aggressor’ Squadron, and also the overall mission leader. Radio monitoring revealed that Abhinandan was being frantically warned by his ground control about the danger he was getting into. “Alpha One, flow cold. Nandu, if you hear me, flow cold,” is how a desperate female controller called the unresponsive pilot in high-pitched screams.[9] Fully conscious but half-deaf by then, Abhinandan soon ran into trouble, *though Vyas, having heard the warning screams, was able to make good his escape*

I have a Question with 10 x aircraft Strike package & 6 escorts they planned to hit just one target? that is 6 x Spice 2000 and 4 x Cyrstal Maze (Popeye) that would be too much ordinance for a intended target. 

May be earlier reports were true that they intended to hit three targets but were not able to do so due to prevailing weather.

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## Pakistani Fighter

TheTallGuy said:


> Look like Kaiser Tufail Sb have updated the article
> *Note*: Article revised on 2 March, 2020.
> 
> http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/2019/06/pulwama-from-bluster-to-whimper.html
> 
> action on 26th Feb (IAF)
> At 0130 hours (all times PST), on the morning of 26 February, a flight of sixteen IAF Mirage 2000 took off from their home base, Gwalior. The strike element in the formation included *six Mirage 2000H armed with one 900 kg Israeli-origin Spice 2000 bomb each*, and *four Mirage 2000H (out of the originally planned six) armed with one Israeli-origin Crystal Maze [1] missile each*. *Six upgraded Mirage 2000I, each armed with six MICA air-to-air missiles, escorted the strike package.* The Mirage 2000s, which had to traverse a distance of 1,000 km from Gwalior, were supported midway by an Il-78 in-flight refuelling tanker. One Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEWCS) aircraft provided surveillance support to the strike package.
> While the Spice 2000 bombs could be launched in the autonomous GPS-assisted delivery mode, the Crystal Maze missiles had to be steered to the target by the pilot via data link, after launch. The TV/imaging infra-red camera in the nose of the Crystal Maze missile could not only provide a view to the pilot for steering it to the target, the dramatic terminal phase could be fed as live video to the revenge-hungry Indian public.
> 
> The first of several snags hit the mission when cloud cover over all of Kashmir precluded employment of the Crystal Maze missiles, and *the four Mirage 2000H had to hold off in frustration.* The remaining formation sneaked in from a *south-easterly direction for a stand-off attack on a seminary at Jabba village near Balakot town*, close to the international border. At 0258 hours, six Mirages carrying the Spice 2000 bombs lobbed them, and broke off immediately. With the bombs’ stand-off range of over 60 km, there was no need to cross into Pakistani territory, as safety of their aircraft was of greater concern, than any qualms about international censure for violating Pakistan’s airspace. *In the event, the aircraft did ingress about 10 km into Azad Kashmir, ostensibly to drive home a point that India did not consider it as disputed territory.* Traversing about 40 km, five bombs fell in a forested area, a few hundred meters from the intended target, and decimated nothing more than a few pine trees.[2] F-16 and JF-17 fighters on patrol were promptly directed to intercept the intruders, but were restrained by the prevalent rules of engagement from crossing over into enemy territory.
> 
> [1] Crystal Maze is a derivative of the Israeli Popeye missile. It weighs 1,100 kg (2,400 lb), and has a range of 80 km.
> 
> [2] The sixth bomb is said to have failed to release.
> 
> PAF OrBat on 27-Feb-19(Swift Retort)
> 
> Extensive Combat Air Patrols (CAP) were flown by the IAF, with surveillance support from ground radars, as well as an AEWCS aircraft anchored over Adampur. When the PAF did not show up till sunrise of 27 February, the IAF eased off from its highest alert state, and waited for the following night.* A pair of Su-30MKI was patrolling near Srinagar, while a pair of Mirage 2000I was patrolling east of Udhampur*. PAF’s deception worked splendidly when its strike package of four Mirage 5PA/IIIDA of No 15 Squadron and two JF-17 of No 16 Squadron, duly supported by a big swarm of escorts and patrolling fighters (a mix of F-16A/B and JF-17), cluttered the scopes of IAF’s ground radars at 0920 hours.[3]
> 
> [3] Two pairs of fighters escorted the strike packages, while four sections of 4-ship fighters each, patrolled along the LOC. The F-16s were armed with 4xAIM-120C-5 and 2xAIM-9M missiles, while the JF-17s were armed with 2xSD-10 and 2xPL-5 missiles.
> 
> Meanwhile, higher in the skies, *the sole Su-30* remaining in the area flew helter-skelter, something quite baffling, considering that these are multi-crew fighters endowed with very powerful radars, and were armed to the teeth with an array of four R-77 active radar-guided BVR missiles, and four R-73 infra-red seeking dogfight missiles each. The Su-30 abruptly called ‘Bingo’ (low on fuel) and exited the area at high speed after only 25 minutes of flight, despite having an endurance of at least two hours while on routine air patrols. As per radio monitoring, it transpired that the *two Su-30s had earlier failed to synchronise their data links and had been unable to provide any mutual support by way of radar data sharing*.
> 
> In the on-going fracas, *the Mirage 2000 formation on patrol was pulled back*. *In all probability, this was done to prevent these high value aircraft from being targeted by more BVR shots*; *however, one is also inclined to believe that the panic-striken pilots may have opportunely declared some kind of weapon system failures. Whatever the reason, these state-of-the-art Mirages were of no help in warding off the PAF fighters, despite being equipped with MICA missiles that were comparable in performance to the F-16s’ AMRAAMs.* As for operational commanders on the ground, it needs no guessing that they had gone into a paralytic freeze, and needed time to gather their wits. When the decision for action finally came, *it was a pathetic one: to use the MiG-21 Bisons – virtually as cannon fodder, it may be added*.
> 
> At 0930 hours, *two pairs of MiG-21 Bisons of No 51 Squadron* were scrambled successively *from Srinagar and nearby Awantipur*, to boost up IAF’s diminishing presence in the air. A senior pilot, Wg Cdr Abhinandan ‘Nandu’ Varthaman (callsign ‘Alpha One’), along with *his wingman, Sqn Ldr Vyas*, *was directed by the ground radar to “turn 160 (degrees),” towards a patrolling pair of PAF fighters.* Flying low and masked by the Parmandal Range, Abhinandan had tried to pull a surprise by abruptly popping up from behind the hills. Apprehending PAF's snooping capabilities, he had even switched off his Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponder. He also kept his radar controller posted about his ground position by reporting it in pre-arranged codes. However, Abhinandan remained oblivious of the fact that unlike ground based radars, PAF's AEWCs and high flying fighters had no line of sight issues, and could clearly see him on their radars. Moments after he called out his ground position, "over LC (Line of Control)," Abhinandan’s MiG-21 was hit by an AIM-120C missile launched from an F-16 flown by Wg Cdr Noman Ali Khan, the Officer Commanding of No 29 ‘Aggressor’ Squadron, and also the overall mission leader. Radio monitoring revealed that Abhinandan was being frantically warned by his ground control about the danger he was getting into. “Alpha One, flow cold. Nandu, if you hear me, flow cold,” is how a desperate female controller called the unresponsive pilot in high-pitched screams.[9] Fully conscious but half-deaf by then, Abhinandan soon ran into trouble, *though Vyas, having heard the warning screams, was able to make good his escape*
> 
> I have a Question with 10 x aircraft Strike package & 6 escorts they planned to hit just one target? that is 6 x Spice 2000 and 4 x Cyrstal Maze (Popeye) that would be too much ordinance for a intended target.
> 
> May be earlier reports were true that they intended to hit three targets but were not able to do so due to prevailing weather.


On 26th Feb, IAF Mirages were escorted by SU 30s too



TheTallGuy said:


> that were comparable in performance to the F-16s’ AMRAAMs


No. Mica not comparable to 120C5. May compare it with SD10A


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## TheTallGuy

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> On 26th Feb, IAF Mirages were escorted by SU 30s too



At first he also wrote it and now he has removed it...



Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> No. Mica not comparable to 120C5. May compare it with SD10A



Sir Kaiser Tufail say so!


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## Hassan Guy

did the guys operating the spada-2000 and s-300 in Pakistan and India call each other up and agree to take a few days off on the 26th and 27th.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Hassan Guy said:


> did the guys operating the spada-2000 and s-300 in Pakistan and India call each other up and agree to take a few days off on the 26th and 27th.


Perhaps, but they must've really hated the SPYDER guys who shot down the Mi-17.

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## Trailer23

https://www.ispr.gov.pk/souvenir/12-Marka-e-haq-Mug.php

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## Amaa'n

Trailer23 said:


> https://www.ispr.gov.pk/souvenir/12-Marka-e-haq-Mug.php
> 
> View attachment 620308
> View attachment 620309​


Oh yar, I was going to post something else on FB, but this is too much tempting to let go off

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246028451615772672

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## StructE

Not sure if this already post, Mods feel free to delete. It seems like National Geographic has covered 27th of Feb.

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## Path-Finder

StructE said:


> Not sure if this already post, Mods feel free to delete. It seems like National Geographic has covered 27th of Feb.


not you too, this is NOT Nat Geo but faux Nat Geo.

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## graphican

Don't let Indians forget this date or what happened to them. Keep their wounds fresh - LOL - always!

I wish we had recorded Kargil and the 1965 wars as much. It would be as much entertaining to remind Indians of their level in all skirmishes and wars.

Alas for 1971, because of Indian terrorism in East Paksitan, Pakistan didn't do well in that war.

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## Balbir

StructE said:


> Not sure if this already post, Mods feel free to delete. It seems like National Geographic has covered 27th of Feb.


That is fake National Geographic watermark.
National Geographic didn't make any documentary on 27th. It is the same Alan Warnes film with National Geographic watermark superimposed on the video clip.


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## Trailer23

Yeah, we already school one jerkoff who was acting all troll-e like on:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/documentary-about-operation-swift-retort.660202/page-2

Agreed, someone put a *Nat Geo* logo, but its someone's personal YouTube page. Can't stop everyone.

But that doesn't mean the Documentary is a made up one.

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## Path-Finder

here is some more fun from non other than that bag of hate cretin phare.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247539842746970112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247540902597296129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247556317876834304

great comic relief.

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## SIPRA

Path-Finder said:


> here is some more fun from non other than that bag of hate cretin phare.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247539842746970112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247540902597296129
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247556317876834304
> 
> great comic relief.





@Mangus Ortus Novem
@Mentee 
@StormBreaker 
@PakSword 
@Ace of Spades 
@Blacklight

Braderaan e Millat: Ik hor masterpiece aaya jay. Parh lo.

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## Blacklight

Path-Finder said:


> here is some more fun from non other than that bag of hate cretin phare.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247539842746970112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247540902597296129
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247556317876834304
> 
> great comic relief.


 She actually said BC!

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## Mentee

SIPRA said:


> @Mangus Ortus Novem
> @Mentee
> @StormBreaker
> @PakSword
> @Ace of Spades
> @Blacklight
> 
> Braderaan e Millat: Ik hor masterpiece aaya jay. Parh lo.



Sanghi brain little little, Christina's agony great
Then why this idiocy d? 



Blacklight said:


> She actually said BC!



Saalaa b Bola, badtameez bachi

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## SIPRA

Blacklight said:


> She actually said BC!



Barhi he kapatti runn ae.



Mentee said:


> Saalaa b Bola, badtameez bachi



Shukar karo, ae runn saaday maghar naeen pae gayi.

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## Mentee

SIPRA said:


> Shukar karo, ae runn saaday maghar naeen pae gayi.



Aho m ty baylay Val keekli pa chorni c

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## Trango Towers

SIPRA said:


> A few trees and a crow.


the death of the crow really pi55sed me off.

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## TheTallGuy

Trango Towers said:


> the death of the crow really pi55sed me off.



the crow kind did not take it lightly they also went in retaliation the shot down a MiG-21 in Rajhistan within 4 days (i think it was 2nd or 3rd March) when out of nowhere Indian were crashing there planes here and there due to "mechanical faults"

then it all just stopped! no more crashes did IAF stop flying?

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## masterchief_mirza

TheTallGuy said:


> the crow kind did not take it lightly they also went in retaliation the shot down a MiG-21 in Rajhistan within 4 days (i think it was 2nd or 3rd March) when out of nowhere Indian were crashing there planes here and there due to "mechanical faults"
> 
> then it all just stopped! no more crashes did IAF stop flying?


Lolz. You don't give up do you?

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## NA71

Blacklight said:


> She actually said BC!


yes...she has....

why all of sudden Indians have again popped up and recalling F-16 kill....is it because their 11 special forces soldiers were down in a failed attempt of action on LOC two days ago?

@TheTallGuy sir, they are not gonna sit until they make another attempt to pacify their lost ego.....right?

there are reports that these cartoons are again up to some thing sinister in their minds...in the shadow of current situation.....you know what i am saying...

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## Balbir

SIPRA said:


> @Mangus Ortus Novem
> @Mentee
> @StormBreaker
> @PakSword
> @Ace of Spades
> @Blacklight
> 
> Braderaan e Millat: Ik hor masterpiece aaya jay. Parh lo.


You may ask her about Su-30MKI shot down by PAF.
you will get even funnier reply from Christine Fair.


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## NA71

Balbir said:


> You may ask her about Su-30MKI shot down by PAF.
> you will get even funnier reply from Christine Fair.



why should we ask her? we are damn convinced about SU kill....when ever i feel doubt, i reopen the photo of IAF press conference where officials carrying AIM120C wreckage piece with pale faces ...it gives me ultra satisfaction about what happened on that day......

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## Trango Towers

Balbir said:


> You may ask her about Su-30MKI shot down by PAF.
> you will get even funnier reply from Christine Fair.


why would we ask her....we in Pakistan think she is pathetic

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## Balbir

NA71 said:


> why should we ask her? we are damn convinced about SU kill....when ever i feel doubt, i reopen the photo of IAF press conference where officials carrying AIM120C wreckage piece with pale faces ...it gives me ultra satisfaction about what happened on that day......


So you are a face reader. The man in civilian clothes is a MoD employees. He wouldn't even know what BVR means.


Trango Towers said:


> why would we ask her....we in Pakistan think she is pathetic


That's what Indians would say, what Christine Fair say is just her opinion. Her assertion on Air chief is an indication of her demented mind. I don't need to explain this to you as Pakistan is old victim of her verbal and intellectual abuses.


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## SIPRA

NA71 said:


>


*Toon Shakir aap siaana haen
Saadha chehra waikh, haalaat na puchh*

@Mangus Ortus Novem
@Mentee
@StormBreaker
@PakSword
@Ace of Spades
@Blacklight

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## Khanivore

Balbir said:


> You may ask her about Su-30MKI shot down by PAF.
> you will get even funnier reply from Christine Fair.


Don't insult Christine with more headache, leave her busy with your F-16 claim.

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## NA71

Balbir said:


> So you are a face reader. The man in civilian clothes is a MoD employees. He wouldn't even know what BVR means.
> 
> That's what Indians would say, what Christine Fair say is just her opinion. Her assertion on Air chief is an indication of her demented mind. I don't need to explain this to you as Pakistan is old victim of her verbal and intellectual abuses.


hahaha by the way your former air chief wouldn't know it either until he was briefed about SU kill.....


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## SIPRA

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *Lingumum Pakistanum Sundrum*
> Why are the *good Indians* looking so *sad *while holding it?

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## Balbir

SIPRA said:


> *Toon Shakir aap siaana haen
> Saadha chehra waikh, haalaat na puchh*
> 
> @Mangus Ortus Novem
> @Mentee
> @StormBreaker
> @PakSword
> @Ace of Spades
> @Blacklight


I don't know why Pakistanis are living in fools paradise and conjuring unfounded theories when it's crystal clear how this AMRAAM missile remnant was found by Indian forces.






 

Watch this video clip, this is a J&K local news media reporting from Maman Kote area of Chassana Sector in District Reasi, published o 27th Feb, 2019

In this clip you get to hear these thing.

1. " Something came down and exploded who pieces are spread across one KM and pieces fell on ground and on houses. "

2. " Debris is lying here. And one local person is injured badly in this. We are looking for medical assistance for him. W_e have informed the authorities about the incident and army persons hv given him medical aid but we need ambulance. " _

3. As we hear in the video , they are nearby the AMRAAM debris and they aren't talking about any IAF jet shot down and lying there.


4. You may discard this solid evidence but then we have flat earth believers too.

*Watch the Bigger version 




*

@anathema @notorious_eagle @HRK @MastanKhan


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## Ultima Thule

Balbir said:


> I don't know why Pakistanis are living in fools paradise and conjuring unfounded theories when it's crystal clear how this AMRAAM missile remnant was found by Indian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch this video clip, this is a J&K local news media reporting from Maman Kote area of Chassana Sector in District Reasi, published o 27th Feb, 2019
> 
> In this clip you get to hear these thing.
> 
> 1. " Something came down and exploded who pieces are spread across one KM and pieces fell on ground and on houses. "
> 
> 2. " Debris is lying here. And one local person is injured badly in this. We are looking for medical assistance for him. W_e have informed the authorities about the incident and army persons hv given him medical aid but we need ambulance. " _
> 
> 3. As we hear in the video , they are nearby the AMRAAM debris and they aren't talking about any IAF jet shot down and lying there.
> 
> 
> 4. You may discard this solid evidence but then we have flat earth believers too.
> 
> @anathema @notorious_eagle @HHK @MastanKhan


AND THAT A PROVE that we shot down your Raptor of the east MKI, and if don't shot down your MAHAN/VEDIC MKI is for what purpose only to dodge AMRAAM



Balbir said:


> I don't know why Pakistanis are living in fools paradise and conjuring unfounded theories when it's crystal clear how this AMRAAM missile remnant was found by Indian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch this video clip, this is a J&K local news media reporting from Maman Kote area of Chassana Sector in District Reasi, published o 27th Feb, 2019
> 
> In this clip you get to hear these thing.
> 
> 1. " Something came down and exploded who pieces are spread across one KM and pieces fell on ground and on houses. "
> 
> 2. " Debris is lying here. And one local person is injured badly in this. We are looking for medical assistance for him. W_e have informed the authorities about the incident and army persons hv given him medical aid but we need ambulance. " _
> 
> 3. As we hear in the video , they are nearby the AMRAAM debris and they aren't talking about any IAF jet shot down and lying there.
> 
> 
> 4. You may discard this solid evidence but then we have flat earth believers too.
> 
> *Watch the Bigger version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> @anathema @notorious_eagle @HHK @MastanKhan


Please answer these question you indiot @Balbir
You're full of contradiction, ridiculous theories with no logic common sense, First you claims in your previous posts that PAF's AWACS (Erieye) can't see your jets but your Phalcon had been PAF jet through the mountains what the fcuk, this ridiculous theory, and on your first of you post claims ABhi coms didn't Jam at any time than you later you admit it that Abhi com were Jam by our DA-20, and Mig-21 radar has its limitations because of Small dia intake radome (nosecone) which limits radar range which suppose to be 50-70 km (because we have also similar upgrades for our F-7PG (copy of Mig-21)) which further reduce by
mountainous terrain

and most fictional and ridiculous claims by you that Abhi fired R-72 without positive 25-30 km is a big distance most of human being can't differentiate the targets without ground controllers and with reduce radar range he never knew where were Pakistani jet were, R-73 has a offbore sight of 40 degree then what if F-16 were out of its offbore attack capability and abhi abhi didn't knew where the enemy jet were because of com jammed and with reduce radar range as compare to F-16 so where he fired upon please tell us
your whole debate is imaginary/fiction/fart tales, which can make good BOLLYWOOD MOVIES


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## Liquidmetal

TheTallGuy said:


> the crow kind did not take it lightly they also went in retaliation the shot down a MiG-21 in Rajhistan within 4 days (i think it was 2nd or 3rd March) when out of nowhere Indian were crashing there planes here and there due to "mechanical faults"
> 
> then it all just stopped! no more crashes did IAF stop flying?



Wow, brilliant err retort


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## The Raven

I've come to avenge my fellow Corvid brethren in the woods of Balakot, they will not be forgotten. May they rest in peace.

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## Khanivore

Balbir said:


> I don't know why Pakistanis are living in fools paradise and conjuring unfounded theories when it's _*crystal clear*_ how this AMRAAM missile remnant was found by Indian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @anathema @notorious_eagle @HRK @MastanKhan


These Kashmiri folks are pissed with the Indian authorities over many reasons - can't you understand their pent-up anger, they are not even saying anything against Pakistan. The blast the old man mentioned could be the airstrike PAF did as he mentions that debris from blast spread out by a kilometre. How does this video make it "*crystal clear*", hello?

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## Khanivore

@Balbir What is actually more clearer is this - confirmation that IAF definitely lost at least Su-30MKI to PAF F-16 inside IoJK on 27 Feb 2019. *Up until Jul 2018*, this famous Indian paper listed *SEVEN lost/crashed Su-30MKIs* since India inducted first Sukoi 30s back in 1997. *THEN in Jan 2020* the Hindustan Times says, _"A total of *12* Su-30 jets have crashed since the fighter jets were inducted."_ Oh the CONTRADICTIONS! 

Please try to explain at least the last FOUR crashes of IAF's Su-30MKI _Raptor of the East_.

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## TheTallGuy

@NA71 
Small little tiny news i come across...they do not come near 50km to IB or 25km near LOC as per New ROE laid after 26th Feb (Balakot) if they breach the barrier (Effectively a NO-FLY-ZONE) they will be considered "Hostile" and be dealt with inside India or disputed territory.

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## Balbir

Khanivore said:


> @Balbir What is actually more clearer is this - confirmation that IAF definitely lost at least Su-30MKI to PAF F-16 inside IoJK on 27 Feb 2019. *Up until Jul 2018*, this famous Indian paper listed *SEVEN lost/crashed Su-30MKIs* since India inducted first Sukoi 30s back in 1997. *THEN in Jan 2020* the Hindustan Times says, _"A total of *12* Su-30 jets have crashed since the fighter jets were inducted."_ Oh the CONTRADICTIONS!


By May 2017, India had lost seven Su30s. Try harder using something more substantial.

https://www.financialexpress.com/in...heres-a-list-of-crashes-from-the-past/683915/


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## ziaulislam

Balbir said:


> So you are a face reader. The man in civilian clothes is a MoD employees. He wouldn't even know what BVR means.
> 
> That's what Indians would say, what Christine Fair say is just her opinion. Her assertion on Air chief is an indication of her demented mind. I don't need to explain this to you as Pakistan is old victim of her verbal and intellectual abuses.


lets make it simple..
get some guts and ask indian air force
1. how did Pakistan altered Satelite imaging showing no strikes in balalkot presumed targets

2. how come rust bucket mig21 (per Indians) shoot down an f16 (which outguns/out ranged su30 mki) when it itself was jammed (with an Indian fight lady screaming abhi to come back). 

would like to enlight us how the mig 21 was made into stealth aircraft by HAL that the saab AWECS couldn't see it coming and f16 couldn't shoot it beyond the range r77 (as it did with su 30)

i mean the popular belief is that we hacked the satellite and use 3D printer to build the targets back to normal, we also brought fake missiles to show off..

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

...and this folks is why we should ban generals from ever running anything other than what they've been trained and educated to run...

https://ispr.gov.pk/products.php

ISPR sells souvenirs. If this isn't a misappropriation of time and resources, then we've got a lot of problems to deal with. Like, there's a Pak Army branded Timex watch.

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## TheTallGuy

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> ...and this folks is why we should ban generals from ever running anything other than what they've been trained and educated to run...
> 
> https://ispr.gov.pk/products.php
> 
> ISPR sells souvenirs. If this isn't a misappropriation of time and resources, then we've got a lot of problems to deal with. Like, there's a Pak Army branded Timex watch.



Sir Jee, This is for Army welfare Trust

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## Balbir

ziaulislam said:


> lets make it simple..
> get some guts and ask indian air force
> 1. how did Pakistan altered Satelite imaging showing no strikes in balalkot presumed targets
> 
> 2. how come rust bucket mig21 (per Indians) shoot down an f16 (which outguns/out ranged su30 mki) when it itself was jammed (with an Indian fight lady screaming abhi to come back).
> 
> would like to enlight us how the mig 21 was made into stealth aircraft by HAL that the saab AWECS couldn't see it coming and f16 couldn't shoot it beyond the range r77 (as it did with su 30)
> 
> i mean the popular belief is that we hacked the satellite and use 3D printer to build the targets back to normal, we also brought fake missiles to show off..


I'm a learner here.

on 27th Feb @anathema has given excellent detailed explanation on a separate thread and go can read it there.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/maje...ations-hd-footage.657645/page-5#post-12213600

On 26th Feb, India used penetrative munition.
No, we didn't target the Madrassa, pakistan took emissaries and journos on tour, but the muliti story building nearby. Sat pictures of of hole on the roof top gives evidence of the strike.


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## Thorough Pro

no big deal, it's not that generals spnd time on this petty matters



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> ...and this folks is why we should ban generals from ever running anything other than what they've been trained and educated to run...
> 
> https://ispr.gov.pk/products.php
> 
> ISPR sells souvenirs. If this isn't a misappropriation of time and resources, then we've got a lot of problems to deal with. Like, there's a Pak Army branded Timex watch.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

TheTallGuy said:


> Sir Jee, This is for Army welfare Trust


There are other ways to support that, it doesn't need to work under the ISPR. This lessens the ISPR's stature as the voice of the armed forces. I'm all for the Army making money, it happens -- but it should be run by people who know what they're doing. 

The Army wouldn't want me to manage a Corps, so shouldn't media, promotion, e-commerce, etc be in the hands of a digital marketing or e-commerce expert?

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## Thorough Pro

which ammo is not penetrative when falling from the sky? use some penetrative wisdom or is your brain too hard to let any wisdom in?



Balbir said:


> I'm a learner here.
> 
> on 27th Feb @anathema has given excellent detailed explanation on a separate thread and go can read it there.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/maje...ations-hd-footage.657645/page-5#post-12213600
> 
> On 26th Feb, India used penetrative munition.
> No, we didn't target the Madrassa, pakistan took emissaries and journos on tour, but the muliti story building nearby. Sat pictures of of hole on the roof top gives evidence of the strike.

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## Path-Finder

SIPRA said:


> Barhi he kapatti runn ae.
> 
> 
> 
> Shukar karo, ae runn saaday maghar naeen pae gayi.


ghundi raan

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## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> @NA71
> Small little tiny news i come across...they do not come near 50km to IB or 25km near LOC as per New ROE laid after 26th Feb (Balakot) if they breach the barrier (Effectively a NO-FLY-ZONE) they will be considered "Hostile" and be dealt with inside India or disputed territory.




Respectfully disagreed...the DNA of these hindu janta is full of wickedness and timidity .....remember PN Atlantic incident....they could do any thing including Passenger Jetliner. Just wait ...when Rafales will begin to land there ....you will see their rhetoric.

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## StructE

Path-Finder said:


> not you too, this is NOT Nat Geo but faux Nat Geo.



Hmm, right. It seems like water mark is fake, I did not payed much attention to it while posting.


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## ziaulislam

Balbir said:


> I'm a learner here.
> 
> on 27th Feb @anathema has given excellent detailed explanation on a separate thread and go can read it there.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/maje...ations-hd-footage.657645/page-5#post-12213600
> 
> On 26th Feb, India used penetrative munition.
> No, we didn't target the Madrassa, pakistan took emissaries and journos on tour, but the muliti story building nearby. Sat pictures of of hole on the roof top gives evidence of the strike.


WTF..why doesnt anyone else in the world knows about these amazing weapons that first parashoots down than drill a hole inside tge building top and tham create a force field to minimize the blast and keep the building intact and afterwards repair the roof...bravo


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## Haris Ali2140

ziaulislam said:


> WTF..why doesnt anyone else in the world knows about these amazing weapons that first parashoots down than drill a hole inside tge building top and tham create a force field to minimize the blast and keep the building intact and afterwards repair the roof...bravo


Don't know why Indians think that SPICE is some interstellar weapon. Its just simple guidance kit strapped to a normal gravity bomb.

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## ziaulislam

We need that technology ..this is straight from star wars



Haris Ali2140 said:


> Don't know why Indians think that SPICE is some interstellar weapon. Its just simple guidance kit strapped to a normal gravity bomb.


No it has air breaks....than a drill infront with magnetic repair module behind

The wire is though an indian source

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## SIPRA

Thorough Pro said:


> which ammo is not penetrative when falling from the sky? use some penetrative wisdom or is your brain too hard to let any wisdom in?



Their brains are also like that Balakot Madrassa; So logic just flies over them and falls in the vicinity.

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## ziaulislam

Or may be it has a killer terminator style robot as a warhead that lands and goes into kill everone

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## TheTallGuy

NA71 said:


> Respectfully disagreed...the DNA of these hindu janta is full of wickedness and timidity .....remember PN Atlantic incident....they could do any thing including Passenger Jetliner. Just wait ...when Rafales will begin to land there ....you will see their rhetoric.



As i said "will be considered hostile" and dealt within indian airspace..as per Updated ROE.

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## Balbir

TheTallGuy said:


> @NA71
> Small little tiny news i come across...they do not come near 50km to IB or 25km near LOC as per New ROE laid after 26th Feb (Balakot) if they breach the barrier (Effectively a NO-FLY-ZONE) they will be considered "Hostile" and be dealt with inside India or disputed territory.



*No, there have been continuous CAPs flying along LoC after 27th Feb*

*March 13, 2019*
Pakistan Air Force jets detected close to LoC, Indian air defence systems on high alert

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...fence-systems-on-high-alert/story/327445.html

2
.* April 3. 2019
WATCH: Indian Air Force Jets Fly Over J&K's Bhimbergali Sector After Pak Jets Came Close To The LoC

https://www.republicworld.com/india...tor-after-pak-jets-came-close-to-the-loc.html

*


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## TheTallGuy

Balbir said:


> *No, there have been continuous CAPs flying along LoC after 27th Feb*
> 
> *March 13, 2019*
> Pakistan Air Force jets detected close to LoC, Indian air defence systems on high alert
> 
> https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...fence-systems-on-high-alert/story/327445.html
> 
> 2
> .* April 3. 2019
> WATCH: Indian Air Force Jets Fly Over J&K's Bhimbergali Sector After Pak Jets Came Close To The LoC
> 
> https://www.republicworld.com/india...tor-after-pak-jets-came-close-to-the-loc.html
> *



As I said "25km to LOC or I say CFL to be correct" previously and 50km from IB no IAF fighter plane came close (let me remind you 10km was previously mutually agreed buffer).

so actually IAF cant fly inside it own sovereign territory.. on its International border (IB)

on both of the dates you have mention where does it say IAF was patrolling close to LOC(under 25km) and i can tell you this with best possible surety..they do not come inside 25km(LOC) or 50km(IB) or they will be shot down. do you understand PAF pilots fly armed now when on Eastern Patrol and its up-till after a whole year has passed in all sectors from CFL to Kutch and even at sea.

Sorry i hurt your feelings!

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## Nomad40

TheTallGuy said:


> As I said "25km to LOC or I say CFL to be correct" previously and 50km from IB no IAF fighter plane came close (let me remind you 10km was previously mutually agreed buffer).
> 
> so actually IAF cant fly inside it own sovereign territory.. on its International border (IB)
> 
> on both of the dates you have mention where does it say IAF was patrolling close to LOC(under 25km) and i can tell you this with best possible surety..they do not come inside 25km(LOC) or 50km(IB) or they will be shot down. do you understand PAF pilots fly armed now when on Eastern Patrol and its up-till after a whole year has passed in all sectors from CFL to Kutch and even at sea.
> 
> Sorry i hurt your feelings!


true


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## anathema

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Don't know why Indians think that SPICE is some interstellar weapon. Its just simple guidance kit strapped to a normal gravity bomb.



Nothing special about SPICE - other than the fact that its proven over - over again in multiple conflicts. You all understand the importance of proven weapon systems dont you ? Finally its not just a guidance kit like a JDAM or Paveway is. Its much beyond that. In summary
"SPICE, like JDAM, is a nose/tail kit for regular iron bombs. However, SPICE differs from the American JDAM or Paveway bomb kits. Where the American PGM kits are either GPS/INS or laser guided, SPICE couples a GPS/INS guidance mode with a Electro-Optical seeker like the GBU-15 or Maverick missile. *This gives the SPICE significant target discrimination capabilities that laser guided or GPS guided weapons lack*."


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## Balbir

TheTallGuy said:


> on both of the dates you have mention where does it say IAF was patrolling close to LOC(under 25km) and i can tell you this with best possible surety..they do not come inside 25km(LOC) or 50km(IB) or they will be shot down. do you understand PAF pilots fly armed now when on Eastern Patrol and its up-till after a whole year has passed in all sectors from CFL to Kutch and even at sea.
> 
> Sorry i hurt your feelings!


If PAF flied armed on patrol then IAF must be flying with sticks and stones.

Listen tall guy, this is PDF so can u say anything. Have your flight of fancy as far and as high as you can, this is the place for it.


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## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> As i said "will be considered hostile" and dealt within indian airspace..as per Updated ROE.


InshaAllah


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## Mace

NA71 said:


> Respectfully disagreed...the DNA of these hindu janta is full of wickedness and timidity .....remember PN Atlantic incident....they could do any thing including Passenger Jetliner. Just wait ...when Rafales will begin to land there ....you will see their rhetoric.



Let’s call what it exactly it is. Atlantique shoot down was payback for duplicity on Pak’s part in the whole Kargil fiasco. Surely you are not proud of what Pak did in Kargil. Pak renegaded on gentlemanly agreement of vacating posts in Kargil during winter. Pak forces occupied vacated Indian posts and tortured and killed returning Indian soldiers on patrol.

It was plain stupidity on part of PN to fly close to border so close to Kargil fiasco winding down. Indians were still seething for unnecessary loss of life in Kargil.


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## Cash GK

Y


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> There are other ways to support that, it doesn't need to work under the ISPR. This lessens the ISPR's stature as the voice of the armed forces. I'm all for the Army making money, it happens -- but it should be run by people who know what they're doing.
> 
> The Army wouldn't want me to manage a Corps, so shouldn't media, promotion, e-commerce, etc be in the hands of a digital marketing or e-commerce expert?


you are an idiot..ispr has many duties n pr is one of them.. rather with multimedia or print media to inspire new generation... stop cSmoking cheep shit from Afganistán..



Balbir said:


> If PAF flied armed on patrol then IAF must be flying with sticks and stones.
> 
> Listen tall guy, this is PDF so can u say anything. Have your flight of fancy as far and as high as you can, this is the place for it.


Buddy.. don’t ask us stupid things. Ask your chief what happened to him while he was sitting duck for PF jets. End of the story It is call checkmate..


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## NA71

Mace said:


> Let’s call what it exactly it is. Atlantique shoot down was payback for duplicity on Pak’s part in the whole Kargil fiasco. Surely you are not proud of what Pak did in Kargil. Pak renegaded on gentlemanly agreement of vacating posts in Kargil during winter. Pak forces occupied vacated Indian posts and tortured and killed returning Indian soldiers on patrol.
> 
> It was plain stupidity on part of PN to fly close to border so close to Kargil fiasco winding down. Indians were still seething for unnecessary loss of life in Kargil.




After 27/2 at least three different occasions when Indian AC entered Pakistan Air space...just recently two Indian ACs were in Pak air space and our ground controllers assisted them for their routes ...both were carrying medical supplies ....if we applied your theory they were not only in Pak air space but on previous occasion one AC call sign was wrong....WE DID NOT SHOT THEM DOWN. rather assistance was provided.....this is the difference.....

And the agreement for both Kargil and Siachen areas...but you first violated the agreement at occupied the Siachen peaks.

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## Mace

NA71 said:


> After 27/2 at least three different occasions when Indian AC entered Pakistan Air space...just recently two Indian ACs were in Pak air space and our ground controllers assisted them for their routes ...both were carrying medical supplies ....if we applied your theory they were not only in Pak air space but on previous occasion one AC call sign was wrong....WE DID NOT SHOT THEM DOWN. rather assistance was provided.....this is the difference.....
> 
> And the agreement for both Kargil and Siachen areas...but you first violated the agreement at occupied the Siachen peaks.



Your Comparison is flawed. IAF knew what they were shooting down in the Atlantique incident. Atlantique also did try to make a run to escape. Indian ACs I am sure responded to ground controller calls and cooperated as normal.

From your post I believe you do not know the full history of siachen. It was no mans land. Pak could have easily occupied siachen before India and India could not do anything about it. Pak did try. I will give you a hint why India got away with claiming siachen. 
It has something to do with the way LOC is demarcated.


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## The Raven

Mace said:


> Your Comparison is flawed. IAF knew what they were shooting down in the Atlantique incident. Atlantique also did try to make a run to escape.



So you're openly celebrating the fact that your cowardly armed forces shot an unarmed Atlantique and committed murder? Somehow I don't find that surprising from rats and monkeys like you. How's the cow urine and dung going for curing COVID-19?

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## SIPRA

The Raven said:


> How's the cow urine and dung going for curing COVID-19?



Extremely effective.

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## The Raven

Mace said:


> Don’t jump in like a stupid monkey without going through previous posts between me and @NA71. What Pak did in Kargil was shameful & cowardly and you deserved to lose the Atlantique the way you did.



Kargil was a military operation monkey sh1t for brains. You openly stated in one of your previous posts that your cowardly armed forces shot down the Atlantique "in revenge", or has drinking cow urine affected your memory? Nothing less to expect from the offspring of mother cows.


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## Mace

The Raven said:


> Kargil was a military operation monkey sh1t for brains. You openly stated in one of your previous posts that your cowardly armed forces shot down the Atlantique "in revenge", or has drinking cow urine affected your memory? Nothing less to expect from the offspring of mother cows.



Atlantique was not a military plane? Like Kargil was a “military operation” shooting down Atlantique was also a “military operation”. Shut it.


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## The Raven

Mace said:


> Atlantique was not a military plane? Like Kargil was a “military operation” shooting down Atlantique was also a “military operation”. Shut it.



Atlantique was UNARMED. Or were your hanuman monkey soldiers climbing up the mountains of Kargil with nothing but lathi sticks and brown shorts? SHUT THE FCK UP monkey sh1t.


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## NA71

Mace said:


> Your Comparison is flawed. IAF knew what they were shooting down in the Atlantique incident. Atlantique also did try to make a run to escape. Indian ACs I am sure responded to ground controller calls and cooperated as normal.
> 
> From your post I believe you do not know the full history of siachen. It was no mans land. Pak could have easily occupied siachen before India and India could not do anything about it. Pak did try. I will give you a hint why India got away with claiming siachen.
> It has something to do with the way LOC is demarcated.




The recent ACs were responding but what about the previous incident...where the call sign was wrong and F16 was scrambled...We could shot down that plane with 120 on board.....but sanity prevailed

*DGCA's clerical error forced Pakistan to chase SpiceJet aircraft*
https://www.business-standard.com/a...o-chase-spicejet-aircraft-119101801416_1.html

*Pakistan F-16s intercept SpiceJet flight after code confusion*
https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pak...t-flight-after-code-confusion-1.1571357694163


basically we need to act insanely to teach insane janta....on 27/2 we let many locked targets to go home....and on ACs with wrong call sign...should be forced to land.... at least and asked for official apology ....


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## Mace

The Raven said:


> Atlantique was UNARMED. Or were your hanuman monkey soldiers climbing up the mountains of Kargil with nothing but lathi sticks and brown shorts? SHUT THE FCK UP monkey sh1t.



My heart goes to those dead in Atlantique incident. Why would you send an unarmed military plane near border during times of tension if it cannot defend itself? Maybe Atlantique pilot should have listened to IAF and landed when directed instead of trying to run away.

We have a standing agreement between India and Pak on not making unilateral changes to LOC. Kargil was a cowardly attempt to alter the status quo under nuclear blackmail by Pak lying to the world about irregulars occupying the vacated Indian posts. You should be happy world did not declare Pak a terrorist nation for what Pak did in Kargil.


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## The Raven

Mace said:


> My heart goes to those dead in Atlantique incident. Why would you send an unarmed military plane near border during times of tension if it cannot defend itself? Maybe Atlantique pilot should have listened to IAF and landed when directed instead of trying to run away.
> 
> We have a standing agreement between India and Pak on not making unilateral changes to LOC. Kargil was a cowardly attempt to alter the status quo under nuclear blackmail by Pak lying to the world about irregulars occupying the vacated Indian posts. You should be happy world did not declare Pak a terrorist nation for what Pak did in Kargil.



Cut the crap. You were gleefully celebrating the shooting down of the UNARMED Atlantique as "revenge" for your monkey army being outmanoeuvred on Kargil. What is so brave about your cowardly airforce shooting down an unarmed aircraft? They could have escorted it to Pak airspace. Russian aircraft routinely threaten UK and NATO airspace, but they aren't shot down. Drink more cow urine, eat more cow dung, worship in your rat infested temples, it'll do you good.


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## Mace

NA71 said:


> The recent ACs were responding but what about the previous incident...where the call sign was wrong and F16 was scrambled...We could shot down that plane with 120 on board.....but sanity prevailed
> 
> *DGCA's clerical error forced Pakistan to chase SpiceJet aircraft*
> https://www.business-standard.com/a...o-chase-spicejet-aircraft-119101801416_1.html
> 
> *Pakistan F-16s intercept SpiceJet flight after code confusion*
> https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pak...t-flight-after-code-confusion-1.1571357694163
> 
> 
> basically we need to act insanely to teach insane janta....on 27/2 we let many locked targets to go home....and on ACs with wrong call sign...should be forced to land.... at least and asked for official apology ....



Locks does not mean kills. We know that from Kargil when IAF locked PAF fighters numerous times. Maybe the chance of kills were low. Maybe PAF’s intention was to kill as many as possible and IAF wisened up to a trap and kept away from harm. Maybe PAF lost nerve fearing escalation of conflict. We will never know. One Mig21 killed. Let’s leave it at that.

Pak was within its limits to force the Indian commercial planes down with wrong call sign.


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## airomerix

Mace said:


> My heart goes to those dead in Atlantique incident. Why would you send an unarmed military plane near border during times of tension if it cannot defend itself? Maybe Atlantique pilot should have listened to IAF and landed when directed instead of trying to run away.
> 
> We have a standing agreement between India and Pak on not making unilateral changes to LOC. Kargil was a cowardly attempt to alter the status quo under nuclear blackmail by Pak lying to the world about irregulars occupying the vacated Indian posts. You should be happy world did not declare Pak a terrorist nation for what Pak did in Kargil.



What crap. 

Atlantique shootdown was a shameful solace seeking act of IAF against losing migs in Kargil. As long as Atlantique was in Pakistani waters, there should have been no reason for its shoot down. It is not only against international law but a morally corrupt act. However, morals and laws do not go hand in hand with India anyway. So this discussion isn't warranted.

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## Mace

airomerix said:


> What crap.
> 
> Atlantique shootdown was a shameful solace seeking act of IAF against losing migs in Kargil. As long as Atlantique was in Pakistani waters, there should have been no reason for its shoot down. It is not only against international law but a morally corrupt act. However, morals and laws do not go hand in hand with India anyway. So this discussion isn't warranted.



You cannot take a high moral ground after what Pak did in Kargil.

What is you view on Pak’s kargil operation?


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## The Raven

Mace said:


> You cannot take a high moral ground after what Pak did in Kargil.
> 
> What is you view on Pak’s kargil operation?



Yes we can, Kargil was armed men fighting other armed men. Your cowardly airforce shot down an unarmed patrol aircraft, which was slow, unmanoeuvrable, a sitting duck. But then monkey sh1t for brains like your ilk are the lowest forms of life, so you wouldn't understand.

We took both the moral high ground and the actual high ground. The only mistake we made was our fat idiot of a prime minister who went running to the Yanks. There's not reason why we couldn't have held on to the ground. If the monkeys wanted to escalate, so be it.


----------



## Cash GK

Mace said:


> You cannot take a high moral ground after what Pak did in Kargil.
> 
> What is you view on Pak’s kargil operation?


Are you super idiot.. Kashmir is disputed land as per UN... men were there to fight n control the area... men will do again n again. What kind of cheep shit you smoke..


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## Mace

The Raven said:


> Yes we can, Kargil was armed men fighting other armed men. Your cowardly airforce shot down an unarmed patrol aircraft, which was slow, unmanoeuvrable, a sitting duck. But then monkey sh1t for brains like your ilk are the lowest forms of life, so you wouldn't understand.



First learn to debate in a civil manner like others you dumba$$


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## The Raven

Mace said:


> First learn to debate in a civil manner like others you dumba$$



You don't deserve any civility monkey sh1t.


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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> Are you super idiot.. Kashmir is disputed land as per UN... men were there to fight n control the area... men will do again n again. What kind of cheep shit you smoke..



I am sorry.  You can do whatever the hell you want because it is a disputed area? Pl get your head checked.

You guys vomit the same crazy argument for 1965. 

India is within its rights to attack Pak anywhere it chooses if Pak initiates a conflict and believes it should be confined to the disputed area. That’s crazy talk.


----------



## NA71

Mace said:


> Locks does not mean kills. We know that from Kargil when IAF locked PAF fighters numerous times. Maybe the chance of kills were low. Maybe PAF’s intention was to kill as many as possible and IAF wisened up to a trap and kept away from harm. Maybe PAF lost nerve fearing escalation of conflict. We will never know. One Mig21 killed. Let’s leave it at that.
> 
> Pak was within its limits to force the Indian commercial planes down with wrong call sign.



Yes , Pakistan would have done that ...but we showed mature response....

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## Mace

NA71 said:


> Yes , Pakistan would have done that ...but we showed mature response....



You and I don’t know that. 

I will fake some interest to believe that mature response bit if PAF was not going to town claiming imaginary su30 kill.


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## NA71

Mace said:


> You cannot take a high moral ground after what Pak did in Kargil.
> 
> What is you view on Pak’s kargil operation?


a fantastic operation militarily ...could have choked Indian Supply lines...but again a mo...fkr rushed to Washington and ruined the entire game plane...an Indian asset that was on PM chair.



Mace said:


> You and I don’t know that.
> 
> I will fake some interest to believe that mature response bit if PAF was not going to town claiming imaginary su30 kill.




Please get your covid 19 test done quickly ...some times the only symptom is ......the patient starts living in hallucination ...

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## The Raven

Mace said:


> I am sorry.  You can do whatever the hell you want because it is a disputed area? Pl get your head checked.
> 
> You guys vomit the same crazy argument for 1965.
> 
> India is within its rights to attack Pak anywhere it chooses if Pak initiates a conflict and believes it should be confined to the disputed area. That’s crazy talk.



No one is saying that fckwit. Just don't compare Kargil, a planned and executed military operation against another armed force, in a disputed territory under occupation by the indians, with the cowardly shooting down of an unarmed aircraft for "revenge"...your own words. Dumb fck.


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## SIPRA

NA71 said:


> Please get your covid 19 test done quickly ...some times the only symptom is ......the patient starts living in hallucination ...

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## Mace

NA71 said:


> a fantastic operation militarily ...could have choked Indian Supply lines...but again a mo...fkr rushed to Washington and ruined the entire game plane...an Indian asset that was on PM chair.



Failures are mostly orphans. The blame games will never end.

Pak did not expect such massive response from India. At the end Pak had little option other than to retreat.

In some ways it is similar to IAF not expecting such a robust response by PAF on 27th.


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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> I am sorry.  You can do whatever the hell you want because it is a disputed area? Pl get your head checked.
> 
> You guys vomit the same crazy argument for 1965.
> 
> India is within its rights to attack Pak anywhere it chooses if Pak initiates a conflict and believes it should be confined to the disputed area. That’s crazy talk.


Look buddy.. It will be like that until you give freedom to Kashmiris.. same as we I mean you n us fought against Britain for freedom.. Kashmiris deserve their right to be free n choices to stay who ever they want.. if India don’t follow UN Resolutions... if you want this way let it be this way..UN gives Kashmiris full right if self deterrence.. You know what I mean...


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## Mentee

Mace said:


> You cannot take a high moral ground after what Pak did in Kargil.
> 
> What is you view on Pak’s kargil operation?



Will do it again and again if you don't submit to u.n resolutions about Kashmir which confers them the right of self determination.



Mace said:


> Don’t jump in like a stupid monkey without going through previous posts between me and @NA71. What Pak did in Kargil was shameful & cowardly and you deserved to lose the Atlantique the way you did.



The pilot who shot down the Atlantic did manage to fry himself on his way to take off

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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> Look buddy.. It will be like that until you give freedom to Kashmiris.. same as we I mean you n us fought against Britain for freedom.. Kashmiris deserve their right to be free n choices to stay who ever they want.. if India don’t follow UN Resolutions... if you want this way let it be this way..UN gives Kashmiris full right if self deterrence.. You know what I mean...



Nobody is stopping you from trying. When you don’t play fair don’t cry later that the opponent didn’t follow your imaginary rules.


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## NA71

Mace said:


> Failures are mostly orphans. The blame games will never end.
> 
> Pak did not expect such massive response from India. At the end Pak had little option other than to retreat.
> 
> In some ways it is similar to IAF not expecting such a robust response by PAF on 27th.




Massive disgrace to Indian military might...few hundred guerrillas thought you how to fight ....how many Indian soldiers killed , have you ever asked your govt? and up against those with limited resources ...entire IAF and IA were engaged ..... but sometimes Trojans could harm you from inside......

That is you call it a massive response ...like you have given Vir Chakra to abhinandan for licking Pakistan Mud....


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## Mace

Mentee said:


> The pilot who shot down the Atlantic did manage to fry himself on his way to take off



Accidents happen. 

I will be wrong to connect feb27 to your pilots death recently.


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## NA71

Mace said:


> Accidents happen.
> 
> I will be wrong to connect feb27 to your pilots death recently.



bro what do you eat? that makes you so dheet?

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## Khanivore

Balbir said:


> *On 26th Feb, India used penetrative munition.*
> No, we didn't target the Madrassa, pakistan took emissaries and journos on tour, *but the muliti story building nearby*. Sat pictures of of hole on the roof top gives _*evidence*_ of the strike.


IAF used just one "*penetrative munition"* to target a cheap 2-story building that a 2,000lb bomb could not flatten?


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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> India is within its rights to attack Pak anywhere it chooses if Pak initiates a conflict and believes it should be confined to the disputed area. That’s crazy talk.


. You have tried this on 26 feb.. remember what happens next in open day light.. men do things in smart way.. you dare not to attack pak... if someone had destroyed two jets one Heli and Chackmate your army chief. It could have been full attack in response.. you guys just lost whol shit credibility in front of international militaries establishments...there is no point to shit talk after this all.. time is gone n now your whole recent generation of airforce is under Pakistani Shadow


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## Mace

NA71 said:


> Massive disgrace to Indian military might...few hundred guerrillas thought you how to fight ....how many Indian soldiers killed , have you ever asked your govt? and up against those with limited resources ...entire IAF and IA were engaged ..... but sometimes Trojans could harm you from inside......
> 
> That is you call it a massive response ...like you have given Vir Chakra to abhinandan for licking Pakistan Mud....



After Kargil failure, do you think Pak will repeat similar fiasco? If no, then India has already won.

Your pilot got a lower award for shooting down an imaginary su30. I am not complaining.


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## Haris Ali2140

Khanivore said:


> IAF used just one "*penetrative munition"* to target a cheap 2-story building that a 2,000lb bomb could not flatten?


Multiple 2000lb, not one.


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## Khanivore

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Multiple 2000lb, not one.


IAF said they dropped multiple 2,000lb SPICE bombs, right? Interesting. I'd like to see damage from sat photos.

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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> . You have tried this on 26 feb.. remember what happens next in open day light.. men do things in smart way.. you dare not to attack pak... if someone had destroyed two jets one Heli and Chackmate your army chief. It could have been full attack in response.. you guys just lost whol shit credibility in front of international militaries establishments...there is no point to shit talk after this all.. time is gone n now your whole recent generation of airforce is under Pakistani Shadow



You put a cheap doll of Abhi in your PAF museum after 27th.

India annexed IOK on Aug5 and moved on. And what exactly did PA or PAF do? This was the true calling that your armed forces should have responded to.


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## Mentee

NA71 said:


> bro what do you eat? that makes you so dheet?


Chawal praash


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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> After Kargil failure, do you think Pak will repeat similar fiasco? If no, then India has already won.
> 
> Your pilot got a lower award for shooting down an imaginary su30. I am not complaining.


You are missing whole story.. two jets n hali was not big thing.. big story was your army chief who was in meeting in Brigade headquarters while PAF was attacking outside. This was real shame..it was Chack mate

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## Mace

Mentee said:


> Chawal praash



 Sometimes Pak mangoes. My neighbour from faisalabad on my street street sells boxes during season.


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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> After Kargil failure, do you think Pak will repeat similar fiasco? If no, then India has already won.
> 
> Your pilot got a lower award for shooting down an imaginary su30. I am not complaining.


Again you are missing whole point it was clear message to India that any given time we can cut your supplies to Kashmir reason why India is buying lot of big Heliz from usa for delivery purposes . India knows it can not defend supply only route to Kashmir in full fledged war.. it was Navaz lost the diplomatic war not the military mission..


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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> You are missing whole story.. two jets n hali was not big thing.. big story was your army chief who was in meeting in Brigade headquarters while PAF was attacking outside. This was real shame..it was Chack mate



 An IAF jaguar could have taken out Musharraf and Nawaz during Kargil. 
IAF did not know they were there. 

I doubt PAF knew IA chief was there at that time on 27th

So 1 Mig21 and one heli fratricide for 27th


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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> An IAF jaguar could have taken out Musharraf and Nawaz during Kargil.
> IAF did not know they were there.
> 
> I doubt PAF knew IA chief was there at that time on 27th
> 
> So 1 Mig21 and one heli fratricide for 27th


Man..... no point to talk to you... this is idiotic... we are talking about facts and message was given by military mission to diplomatic front... I can admire your diplomatic victories.. but your army is and always joke to us... we know your weakness n strong point.. we been doing this for almost thousand years since we putted our first footsteps in subcontinent..


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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> Again you are missing whole point it was clear message to India that any given time we can cut your supplies to Kashmir reason why India is buying lot of big Heliz from usa for delivery purposes . India knows it can not defend supply only route to Kashmir in full fledged war.. it was Navaz lost the diplomatic war not the military mission..



Do you believe Pak armed forces can attack and sustain a war to grab IOK? If no then these subliminal messages of cutting off supplies and similar to get India’s attention is pointless. Indian under Modi don’t even want to talk to Pak.


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## NA71

Mace said:


> After Kargil failure, do you think Pak will repeat similar fiasco? If no, then India has already won.
> 
> Your pilot got a lower award for shooting down an imaginary su30. I am not complaining.



you are pitching an argument and answering it......in a same sentence

Kargil was not a failure....will be repeated when need arises....


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## ziaulislam

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> ...and this folks is why we should ban generals from ever running anything other than what they've been trained and educated to run...
> 
> https://ispr.gov.pk/products.php
> 
> ISPR sells souvenirs. If this isn't a misappropriation of time and resources, then we've got a lot of problems to deal with. Like, there's a Pak Army branded Timex watch.


what if its outsourced..i see that often everywhere in other countries.. then its not..but if this is what ISPR itself is doing than yes..


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## NA71

now this guys @Mace have started useless posting just for the sack of trolling


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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> Man..... no point to talk to you... this is idiotic... we are talking about facts and message was given by military mission to diplomatic front... I can admire your diplomatic victories.. but your army is and always joke to us... we know your weakness n strong point.. we been doing this for almost thousand years since we putted our first footsteps in subcontinent..



You do realise joke army has done humongous damage to Pak right? And you literally have nothing to show for your super super armed forces. Your ancestors must be turning in their graves ashamed.

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## ziaulislam

Mace said:


> After Kargil failure, do you think Pak will repeat similar fiasco? If no, then India has already won.
> 
> Your pilot got a lower award for shooting down an imaginary su30. I am not complaining.


after Kargil fiasco do you think a 10 times bigger country that eagerly took the opportunity and annexed east Pakistan will do a similar episode in Kashmir...
if the answer is no(and is no) than India lost already...


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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> An IAF jaguar could have taken out Musharraf and Nawaz during Kargil.
> IAF did not know they were there.
> 
> I doubt PAF knew IA chief was there at that time on 27th
> 
> So 1 Mig21 and one heli fratricide for 27th


A


Mace said:


> Do you believe Pak armed forces can attack and sustain a war to grab IOK? If no then these subliminal messages of cutting off supplies and similar to get India’s attention is pointless. Indian under Modi don’t even want to talk to Pak.


look you said your army could have destroyed nawaz n musraf unarmed plan. This is what you guys are best in doing..remember very recent event on corona virus when modi was chairing the meeting n who was from Pakistan in vídeoConference. Our health minister... then yesterday pak refused to attent Serc conference... time is changed.. we have cuted modi travel routes to Europe.. last two years how many times he traveled to Europe as compare to nawaz shrif government. You guys must know KHan is rulling the county who’s forefather were Turk from great Baber mirza who ruled the subcontinent for centuries..

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## Mace

Cash GK said:


> A
> 
> look you said your army could have destroyed nawaz n musraf unarmed plan. This is what you guys are best in doing..remember very recent event on corona virus when modi was chairing the meeting n who was from Pakistan in vídeoConference. Our health minister... then yesterday pak refused to attent Serc conference... time is changed.. we have cuted modi travel routes to Europe.. last two years how many times he traveled to Europe as compare to nawaz shrif government. You guys must know KHan is rulling the county who’s forefather were Turk from great Baber mirza who ruled the subcontinent for centuries..



No planes. Musharraf and Nawaz were in a military base near Kargil area.

Nobody missed Pak because they did not attend saarc meeting yesterday.

Liked IK the sportsman. Political Khan is clueless.


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## Cash GK

Mace said:


> You do realise joke army has done humongous damage to Pak right? And you literally have nothing to show for your super super armed forces. Your ancestors must be turning in their graves ashamed.


We


Mace said:


> You do realise joke army has done humongous damage to Pak right? And you literally have nothing to show for your super super armed forces. Your ancestors must be turning in their graves ashamed.


well if pak army is joke then watch every day India media.. you will relie how pian pak army create in Indian aras.lol

Any 


Mace said:


> No planes. Musharraf and Nawaz were in a military base near Kargil area.
> 
> Nobody missed Pak because they did not attend saarc meeting yesterday.
> 
> Liked IK the sportsman. Political Khan is clueless.


Correct yourself they were in GHQ... n you know where is GHQ.


----------



## Haris Ali2140

Mace said:


> You do realise joke army has done humongous damage to Pak right? And you literally have nothing to show for your super super armed forces. Your ancestors must be turning in their graves ashamed.


Joke army surrendered when met with foe of equal size. This bravado is only for countries 6 times smaller.


----------



## Cash GK

Mace said:


> You do realise joke army has done humongous damage to Pak right? And you literally have nothing to show for your super super armed forces. Your ancestors must be turning in their graves ashamed.


So you don’t watch Indian media.. how much pain pak army creates in indian aras.. if Pakistan army is joke lol.. you need high class drug.. cheep is hurting you.. if Ik is clueless then why modi n India getting famous as nazi Hitler in world n asking trump to stop ik to call modi nazi .. think about it... lol anyway nice wasting time with you inCorona times.



Haris Ali2140 said:


> Joke army surrendered when met with foe of equal size. This bravado is only for countries 6 times smaller.


Look mr you win war n lose wars.. we always have gardar in our lines... bagla was hard to defend.. supiles were hard to reach there.. think if you fighting war n you need weapons n those weapon reached you in 3 months via sea even if you are hulk you will lose the war.. you are an *** hole with no sense of military norms.. when it comes to west Pakistan we always defeated India in Punjab n Kashmir front...


----------



## Balbir

Khanivore said:


> IAF used just one "*penetrative munition"* to target a cheap 2-story building that a 2,000lb bomb could not flatten?


SPICE2000 is weapon guidance kit. 
It doesn't mean it it carried 2000lb bomb.
Explosive size can be much smaller.


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## Path-Finder

Balbir said:


> SPICE2000 is weapon guidance kit.
> It doesn't mean it it carried 2000lb bomb.
> Explosive size can be much smaller.


how much smaller?


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## Haris Ali2140

@dbc 
Wiki shows that Spice 2000 can carry either Mk.83(453 kg) or Mk.84(907 kg). Since it is a glide bomb and has no propulsion, will changing the mass of warhead affect its flight characteristics???


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## Khanivore

Balbir said:


> SPICE2000 is weapon guidance kit.
> It doesn't mean it it carried 2000lb bomb.
> Explosive size can be much smaller.


You make it sound like the IAF strapped the SPICE kit to a hand grenade. But the kits IAF has are for large bombs.


----------



## Mace

Cash GK said:


> So you don’t watch Indian media.. how much pain pak army creates in indian aras.. if Pakistan army is joke lol.. you need high class drug.. cheep is hurting you.. if Ik is clueless then why modi n India getting famous as nazi Hitler in world n asking trump to stop ik to call modi nazi .. think about it... lol anyway nice wasting time with you inCorona times.



 

Good night ladies. It is past midnight in Aus. Catch you later.


@Cash GK @NA71 @Mentee


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## Jackdaws

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Joke army surrendered when met with foe of equal size. This bravado is only for countries 6 times smaller.


Surrendered? When?

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## Haris Ali2140

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War


Jackdaws said:


> Surrendered? When?


----------



## Jackdaws

Haris Ali2140 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War


Oh yea. We lost that war. There was no surrender though. But point taken - India got badly mauled in that war.


----------



## Balbir

Path-Finder said:


> how much smaller?





Khanivore said:


> You make it sound like the IAF strapped the SPICE kit to a hand grenade. But the kits IAF has are for large bombs.



*Balakot strike: Each warhead had 70-80 kg net explosive quantity

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/balakot-strike-each-warhead-had-70-80-kg-net-explosive-quantity-5616595/*


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## dbc

Haris Ali2140 said:


> @dbc
> Wiki shows that Spice 2000 can carry either Mk.83(453 kg) or Mk.84(907 kg). Since it is a glide bomb and has no propulsion, will changing the mass of warhead affect its flight characteristics???



No, but the heavier variety will have greater penetration.

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## Haris Ali2140

dbc said:


> No, but the heavier variety will have greater penetration.


Indians are claiming there was only 80-90 kg of explosives.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...-had-70-80-kg-net-explosive-quantity-5616595/


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## dbc

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Indians are claiming there was only 80-90 kg of explosives.
> 
> https://indianexpress.com/article/i...-had-70-80-kg-net-explosive-quantity-5616595/



Could be, it does not take a rocket scientist to reduce the yield of a WWII era iron bomb.


----------



## Khanivore

Balbir said:


> *Balakot strike: Each warhead had 70-80 kg net explosive quantity
> 
> https://indianexpress.com/article/india/balakot-strike-each-warhead-had-70-80-kg-net-explosive-quantity-5616595/*


What?? But your media and everyone glorified the use of SPICE 2,000lb bombs on 26 Feb. This just smells of bullsh*t because the article says the weapon using TNT is "classified". 

Any sat pics of the the before and after damage?


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## Haris Ali2140

dbc said:


> Could be, it does not take a rocket scientist to reduce the yield of a WWII era iron bomb.


Since Spice 2000 is a glide bomb wont such a drastic reduction in weight effect its flight characteristics???


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## SIPRA

Path-Finder said:


> how much smaller?



Results show that it was loaded with a revolver bullet.

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## Khanivore

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Since Spice 2000 is a glide bomb wont such a drastic reduction in weight effect its flight characteristics???


You took the words right out of my mouth - genius!


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## SIPRA

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> There is *Only One Way* to deal with the good Indians!



Danda peer ae bigrheyaan tigrheyaan da

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## TheTallGuy

Balbir said:


> If PAF flied armed on patrol then IAF must be flying with sticks and stones.
> 
> Listen tall guy, this is PDF so can u say anything. Have your flight of fancy as far and as high as you can, this is the place for it.



No No...they IAF fly armed also but just dont come near 50km buffer (NOFLYZONE) from International border same goes with 25km (NFZ) from LOC. due to Update ROE. 

Please do not include commercial or Quad copter drones..in the list. ROE is updated for Fast Jets and Semi-Heavy drones...

And 2nd Part of your comment: so i am where i ought to be correct! then why are you here?

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## dbc

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Since Spice 2000 is a glide bomb wont such a drastic reduction in weight effect its flight characteristics???



Not unusual to use cement to offset. It's common practice, the French used cement in their AASM Hammer PGM in Libya.


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## ziaulislam

Balbir said:


> If PAF flied armed on patrol then IAF must be flying with sticks and stones.
> 
> Listen tall guy, this is PDF so can u say anything. Have your flight of fancy as far and as high as you can, this is the place for it.


wait ... lets first figure out how come Pakistan rebuild the target building within hours overnight with a 3D printer after spice 1000 lb destroyed it

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## Path-Finder

SIPRA said:


> Results show that it was loaded with a revolver bullet.


why don't indians take the narrative of the old ISPR. the bumb was smart. it had a drill machine and it drilled a mori into the building entered and exploded within the building damaging only the interior which Pakistanis repaired.

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## SIPRA

Path-Finder said:


> why don't indians take the narrative of the old ISPR. the bumb was smart. it had a drill machine and it drilled a mori into the building entered and exploded within the building damaging only the interior which Pakistanis repaired.



Some of their media anchors, in fact, promoted this narrative, quite seriously. These people are utterly shameless.

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## NA71

.


TheTallGuy said:


> As i said "will be considered hostile" and dealt within indian airspace..as per Updated ROE.



Sir As I said, they will not sit Idle ...Since this moring Our Radars picked up IAF movements mutiple times and than they carried out Drone based strike on Keran Sector...watch for their propaganda warfare on its peak.


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## Bossman

NA71 said:


> .
> 
> 
> Sir As I said, they will not sit Idle ...Since this moring Our Radars picked up IAF movements mutiple times and than they carried out Drone based strike on Keran Sector...watch for their propaganda warfare on its peak.


 Drone based strike?


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## NA71

Bossman said:


> Drone based strike?



Yes, watch...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248639639373701121


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## Khanivore

NA71 said:


> Yes, watch...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248639639373701121


That explains why the drone operator is just watching and not targeting. They're helplessly watching their own ammo dump exploding. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248688977219026949

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## Zarvan



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## Khanivore

Zarvan said:


>


Here's that epic admission by that Indian chihuahua news anchor Rahul Kanwal...






*Very telling words: "Pakistani air force shot down a Sukhoi 30 MKI, the latest of India's air force..."*

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## Ultima Thule

Khanivore said:


> Here's that epic admission by that Indian chihuahua news anchor Rahul Kanwal...


They (Indians) called this clip is a bad dubbing from Pakistani boys

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## Khanivore

seven0seven said:


> They (Indians) called this clip is a bad dubbing from Pakistani boys


They need to prove it using an original recording and compare it. But they won't.


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## Ultima Thule

@Suriya why you thinks that, its clearly a original clip from your media admitting MKI shoot down



Khanivore said:


> They need to prove it using an original recording and compare it. But they won't.


I remember this clip posted by some Pakistani members on this thread on PDF at very start 27/2/2019

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## Khanivore

seven0seven said:


> @Suriya why you thinks that, its clearly a original clip from your media admitting MKI shoot down
> 
> 
> I remember this clip posted by some Pakistani members on this thread on PDF at very start 27/2/2019


*Here's another firm CONFIRMATION.*

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## Ultima Thule

Khanivore said:


> *Here's another firm CONFIRMATION.*


They always lie bro calling us manipulated clips/videos bro,they are accusing this clip this was from Pakistani side of Kashmir


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## Khanivore

seven0seven said:


> They always lie bro calling us manipulated clips/videos bro,they are accusing this clip this was from Pakistani side of Kashmir


They can _*lie*_ but the same reporter and guys are talking here ON INDIAN CHANNEL.

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## Ultima Thule

Khanivore said:


> They can _*lie*_ but the same reporter and guys are talking here ON INDIAN CHANNEL.


They not convinced bro manipulated by Pakistani boys bro



Khanivore said:


> They can _*lie*_ but the same reporter and guys are talking here ON INDIAN CHANNEL.


Look they blaming Pakistani f16s shoot down in the area of IOK in this clip bro


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## Khanivore

seven0seven said:


> They not convinced bro manipulated by Pakistani boys bro
> 
> 
> Look they blaming Pakistani f16s shoot down in the area of IOK in this clip bro


The interviewer twisted it at the end. They were dying to see a PAF plane fall so they dreamt up a falling IAF plane to be a PAF plane. It's mentally sick.

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## Ultima Thule

Khanivore said:


> The interviewer twisted it at the end. They were dying to see a PAF plane fall so they dreamt up a falling IAF plane to be a PAF plane. It's mentally sick.


Yeah you're right IAF claiming from day 1 that our f16 crashed in azad Kashmir so what was crashed in IOK definitely a MKI immediately after the shooting down of MKI they blocked all mobile service in whole IOK

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## masterchief_mirza

Khanivore said:


> *Here's another firm CONFIRMATION.*


Every Pakistani must be taught these two clips so they're known off by heart, as Indians will erase them from existence.

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## drunken-monke

In war unproven claims and counter claims are quite common. Also in fog of war, it is sometimes possible that false or unverified news start to circulate. For example, on 27th Feb ISPR and Pak PM claimed to have captured 3 Indian pilots only to retract it hours later when they could only produce only 1 pilot.

SU 30 MKI is most modern and potent aircraft in indian Airforce inventory so a scalp will boost PAF morale.

The objective of Operation Swift Retort was to retaliate IAF strike on 26th Feb and salvage some honour.

PAF launched a large package of aircraft- F 16, Mirage and JF17. Mirage and JF 17 were to attempt attack against military installations while F16s were to give air cover and draw IAF CAPs to PAF dominated killing zones.

PAF JF 17 and Mirage managed to drop weapons in vicinity on Indian military installations- whether targets were missed by design or PAF was forced to miss the target when challenged by IAF is a moot question. F16s fired (India claims 5–6) few AMRAAMs at Indian aircraft with 1 confirmed kill of Indian MiG21, incidentally PAF denied involvement of F16 and attributed kill to JF17 but was forced to come clean when India showed debris on AMRAAM to media.

So far PAF has been caught deceiving twice: 1) IAF pilot in custody 2) Use of F16 and AMRAAMs

With no physical proof like SU 30 wreckage or any photo/video evidence, the claim of PAF is unverified and unfounded.

In 21st century with mobile phones in every nook and corner of Kashmir it is impossible to hide an incident of such magnitude.

In past, there has been instances where Pak made false claims like


No involvement of army regulars in Kargil conflict
News of liberation of Dhaka on 16th December 1971 was hidden from population of Pakistan with call to “War till Victory” on December 17th 1971 in national newspapers.


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## masterchief_mirza

drunken-monke said:


> In war unproven claims and counter claims are quite common. Also in fog of war, it is sometimes possible that false or unverified news start to circulate. For example, on 27th Feb ISPR and Pak PM claimed to have captured 3 Indian pilots only to retract it hours later when they could only produce only 1 pilot.
> 
> SU 30 MKI is most modern and potent aircraft in indian Airforce inventory so a scalp will boost PAF morale.
> 
> The objective of Operation Swift Retort was to retaliate IAF strike on 26th Feb and salvage some honour.
> 
> PAF launched a large package of aircraft- F 16, Mirage and JF17. Mirage and JF 17 were to attempt attack against military installations while F16s were to give air cover and draw IAF CAPs to PAF dominated killing zones.
> 
> PAF JF 17 and Mirage managed to drop weapons in vicinity on Indian military installations- whether targets were missed by design or PAF was forced to miss the target when challenged by IAF is a moot question. F16s fired (India claims 5–6) few AMRAAMs at Indian aircraft with 1 confirmed kill of Indian MiG21, incidentally PAF denied involvement of F16 and attributed kill to JF17 but was forced to come clean when India showed debris on AMRAAM to media.
> 
> So far PAF has been caught deceiving twice: 1) IAF pilot in custody 2) Use of F16 and AMRAAMs
> 
> With no physical proof like SU 30 wreckage or any photo/video evidence, the claim of PAF is unverified and unfounded.
> 
> In 21st century with mobile phones in every nook and corner of Kashmir it is impossible to hide an incident of such magnitude.
> 
> In past, there has been instances where Pak made false claims like
> 
> 
> No involvement of army regulars in Kargil conflict
> News of liberation of Dhaka on 16th December 1971 was hidden from population of Pakistan with call to “War till Victory” on December 17th 1971 in national newspapers.


How do you even sleep at night with all this circumstantial pseudo-evidence weighing so heavily on your conscience?

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## Taimoor Khan

drunken-monke said:


> whether targets were missed by design or PAF was forced to miss the target when challenged by IAF is a moot question




Forced to missed? PAF have released the video of one of its smart weapon's built-in camera, being first locked on to the Indian army depo and then guided away, sparing the lives of god knows how many Indian army personal in that facility.

Where is this non sensical narrative of "forced to missed" among Indian minds is coming from where on the contrary there is the actual evidence on hands and being shown to the world!

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## Khanivore

drunken-monke said:


> So far PAF has been caught deceiving twice: 1) IAF pilot in custody 2) Use of F16 and AMRAAMs


Nice script buddy, it's still doesn't prove anything. It's all hocus-pocus. 

Why don't you look at how Rahul Kanwal and Shiv Aroor (I lol at Shiv, the buffoon is a stumbling, bombastic jingoist) pushing out filthy lies that are just laughable in following video, *confirming the IAF lies to the teeth*, falsely claiming their own downed MiG-21 wreckage _as PAF F-16 wreckage_. 






*If you want to know what is false*, it's this in the video. THAT is deceptional. It can't get more stark naked than that.

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## maverick1977

Khanivore said:


> Nice script buddy, it's still doesn't prove anything. It's all hocus-pocus.
> 
> Why don't you look at how Rahul Kanwal and Shiv Aroor (I lol at Shiv, the buffoon is a stumbling, bombastic jingoist) pushing out filthy lies that are just laughable in following video, *confirming the IAF lies to the teeth*, falsely claiming their own downed MiG-21 wreckage _as PAF F-16 wreckage_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *If you want to know what is false*, it's this in the video. THAT is deceptional. It can't get more stark naked than that.









Look at his nasty face when Shiekh rashid said that we will destroy you, you just saw the trailer, Pakistan will come all the way to red fort..after 27 Feb bashing these jingoistic sold our morons just started yelling out loud..

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## PakFactor

maverick1977 said:


> View attachment 623897
> 
> 
> Look at his nasty face when Shiekh rashid said that we will destroy you, you just saw the trailer, Pakistan will come all the way to red fort..after 27 Feb bashing these jingoistic sold our morons just started yelling out loud..



Shakal manoos lagri ha pajeet ki


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## drunken-monke

Can someone give answers to these three questions from an article;

The TADPOLE proves that a man-made object on fire, fell over the skies between Kotli and Charhoi on 27 February 2019.
There are very clearly two distinct and different crashes noticed in the various videos shot by the residents in the Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019.
 IAF lost ONE MiG-21 over Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019. So, who lost the other aircraft?

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## Bossman

drunken-monke said:


> Can someone give answers to these three questions from an article;
> 
> The TADPOLE proves that a man-made object on fire, fell over the skies between Kotli and Charhoi on 27 February 2019.
> There are very clearly two distinct and different crashes noticed in the various videos shot by the residents in the Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019.
> IAF lost ONE MiG-21 over Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019. So, who lost the other aircraft?


What article?


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## masterchief_mirza

Khanivore said:


> Nice script buddy, it's still doesn't prove anything. It's all hocus-pocus.
> 
> Why don't you look at how Rahul Kanwal and Shiv Aroor (I lol at Shiv, the buffoon is a stumbling, bombastic jingoist) pushing out filthy lies that are just laughable in following video, *confirming the IAF lies to the teeth*, falsely claiming their own downed MiG-21 wreckage _as PAF F-16 wreckage_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *If you want to know what is false*, it's this in the video. THAT is deceptional. It can't get more stark naked than that.


My God. That is the funniest segment of journalism I ever did see.

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## Pak-Canuck

drunken-monke said:


> Can someone give answers to these three questions from an article;
> 
> The TADPOLE proves that a man-made object on fire, fell over the skies between Kotli and Charhoi on 27 February 2019.
> There are very clearly two distinct and different crashes noticed in the various videos shot by the residents in the Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019.
> IAF lost ONE MiG-21 over Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019. So, who lost the other aircraft?



Su-30 shot over azad kashmir, fell down in IOK, just like IOK residents and reporter described in these clips






and this one especially at the place of the Mi-17 crash, where the eye-witness is CLEARLY saying another plane, not a helicopter was shot down and fell nearby at the 2:20 mark






two different groups of witnesses, from NON-PAK media, FIRST CLIP SAYING PLANE WAS coming from pak side of border in flames and second clip confirming a plane crashing close by the helicopter as well, both confirmations of a plane being shot down and crashing in IOK. Keep in mind that this PERFECTLY FITS WITH ALLEN WARNES'S opinion stated in the swift retort documentary as to why would the shot down Mi-17 be in the area UNLESS IT WAS there to recover the Su-30 crew at the crash site which this witness said was right nearby.

This along with clips from the Pak side from witnesses claiming Sikh pilots being captured






ALONG WITH INDIAN MEDIA claiming a SU-30 shot down by Pak which you've probably seen a 1000 times now. Along with BOTH Pak pilots proudly claiming the kills openly on several media sources, and NOT A WORD from abhi-none-done anywhere confirming what he did, way too many coincidences pointing to one direction

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## maverick1977

maverick1977 said:


> View attachment 623897
> 
> 
> Look at his nasty face when Shiekh rashid said that we will destroy you, you just saw the trailer, Pakistan will come all the way to red fort..after 27 Feb bashing these jingoistic sold our morons just started yelling out loud..



His hatred reflects of indian hatred towards pakistanis and pakistan in general.. how can you hate so much, that you spew garbage day in day out..


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## Trailer23

@Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
@Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar

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## TOPGUN

Hahah lol what a pathetic country with a bollywood circus armed forces ... damn cowards !!!

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## loanranger

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 624199
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


I thought someone has hacked their website ! 
Then I checked.

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## Ahmet Pasha

I thought same.
So their website not hacked??


loanranger said:


> I thought someone has hacked their website !
> Then I checked.

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## Trailer23

The Patch reads...*IN DEFENCE OF THE NATION*

In Defence of what?!!
-bailing out.
-chickening out.
-running for cover.
-"aI'll be baaack".

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## Suriya

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 624199


Photoshopped image. Front page of IAF is as good as ever. https://indianairforce.nic.in/

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## Trailer23

Suriya said:


> Photoshopped image. Front page of IAF is as good as ever. https://indianairforce.nic.in/


Yeah, the image of the Air Chief, the Photo Gallery, Video Gallery and the...'_Strength_' kinda gave it away.


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## Bossman

One unique achievement that I found out about IAF and HAL is mind boggling. India is the only country in the world where brand new jets manufactured by HAL literally went directly from the factory to the junkyard. I am talking about the Marut HF24.

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## Mrc

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 624199
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar








By the way they did not dodge any missiles. They ran away after missile locks.
Missiles were never fired

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## SIPRA

Mrc said:


> By the way they did not dodge any missiles. They ran away after missile locks.
> Missiles were never fired



This is an advanced method of dodging the missiles, meaning, to snatch away the opportunity from the enemy to fire them.

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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> The Patch reads...*IN DEFENCE OF THE NATION*
> 
> In Defence of what?!!
> -bailing out.
> -chickening out.
> -running for cover.
> -"aI'll be baaack".


clouds!!

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## SQ8

When running away from a fight is considered a source of pride..what is India coming to? Even failures are forced into celebration with repetitive self deceit.

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## padamchen

Socra said:


> When running away from a fight is considered a source of pride..what is India coming to? Even failures are forced into celebration with repetitive self deceit.



Yo

Gog Magog.

Any reason to change your mind (like your ID)?


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## SQ8

padamchen said:


> Yo
> 
> Gog Magog.
> 
> Any *reason* to change your mind (like your ID)?


Too many to count now since the RSS nuttiness came online. True orwellian opera at play in India.

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## Dil Pakistan

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 624199
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar




 
Why not bhai …. everyone has the right to be proud of the max. they can do … for IAF this is the max.

Bhajj - oey --- AMRAAM aya - eee



Mrc said:


> By the way they did not dodge any missiles. They ran away after missile locks.
> Missiles were never fired



This is their definition of "dodging"

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## Telescopic Sight

Socra said:


> When running away from a fight is considered a source of pride..what is India coming to? Even failures are forced into celebration with repetitive self deceit.



A few people's posts are not indicative of some national sentiment. 

If one thinks about it, surely there is a successful agenda behind the Indian Govt. reaction after Abhi got shot down. 

PAF and the IAF will likely meet in the skies again . When ? The next general elections are in May 2024.


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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> A few people's posts are not indicative of some national sentiment.
> 
> If one thinks about it, surely there is a successful agenda behind the Indian Govt. reaction after Abhi got shot down.
> 
> PAF and the IAF will likely meet in the skies again . When ? The next general elections are in May 2024.



hmm...so 2034 will be the 10 year death anniversary of the rafale & maybe even the tejas.


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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> Photoshopped image. Front page of IAF is as good as ever. https://indianairforce.nic.in/


Yes, to your relief, it dodged well. Rest assured, your air force is still legendary. *Salute*



Mrc said:


> By the way they did not dodge any missiles. They ran away after missile locks.
> Missiles were never fired


Tekneekaal fault, radar malfunction, low on fuel, "BINGO"; just to name a few.

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## Myth_buster_1

drunken-monke said:


> Can someone give answers to these three questions from an article;
> 
> The TADPOLE proves that a man-made object on fire, fell over the skies between Kotli and Charhoi on 27 February 2019.
> There are very clearly two distinct and different crashes noticed in the various videos shot by the residents in the Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019.
> IAF lost ONE MiG-21 over Azad Kashmir on 27 February 2019. So, who lost the other aircraft?



1. its just indian imagination.
2. yah, its same abhi mig-21 videos taken from different angles.
3. The other one is Su-30. Ask your IAF to show su-30 wreckage which was at the same location as AMRAAM which IAF paraded.

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## GumNaam

Khanivore said:


> Yes, to your relief, it dodged well. Rest assured, your air force is still legendary. *Salute*
> 
> 
> Tekneekaal fault, radar malfunction, low on fuel, "BINGO"; just to name a few.


iaf code for being low on guts: "BHANGI"!

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## Telescopic Sight

GumNaam said:


> iaf code for being low on guts: "BHANGI"!



If an Air Force does not retaliate when it's own jet is shot down, you are calling it BHANGI ? Do I understand u correctly ?


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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> If an Air Force does not retaliate when it's own jet is shot down, you are calling it BHANGI ? Do I understand u correctly ?


no your airforce calls "dropping your payload in the middle of the jungle and running with your tails between your legs" as code "bhangi"!

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## StormBreaker

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 624199
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


Wish Allah had raised me up before me suffering from such a joke...

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## Trailer23

Telescopic Sight said:


> PAF and the IAF will likely meet in the skies again . When ? The next general elections are in May 2024.


Anxiously looking forward to it.
#Can'tWait

Eh..., what color Jacket do you want this time 'round?


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## khansaheeb

Trailer23 said:


> The Patch reads...*IN DEFENCE OF THE NATION*
> 
> In Defence of what?!!
> -bailing out.
> -chickening out.
> -running for cover.
> -"aI'll be baaack".


In defense of shot down pilots.


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## drunken-monke

Myth_buster_1 said:


> 1. its just indian imagination.
> 2. yah, its same abhi mig-21 videos taken from different angles.
> 3. The other one is Su-30. Ask your IAF to show su-30 wreckage which was at the same location as AMRAAM which IAF paraded.


1. The Tadpole is visible from couple of locations and videos are uploaded by Pakistani. Its not Indian imagination.
2. Mig 21 video is quite clear, burning debris. Tadpole is different.
3. Khayali Pulao by Pakistani forum members..

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## Stealth

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 624199
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar



LOL Khusra military

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## Thorough Pro

A nation of arseholes so basically in defence of their arse




Trailer23 said:


> The Patch reads...*IN DEFENCE OF THE NATION*
> 
> In Defence of what?!!
> -bailing out.
> -chickening out.
> -running for cover.
> -"aI'll be baaack".

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## Ghessan

they are really good at creating new normal. 
only airforce in the world who claims and excel in dodging the missiles. 
dodging missiles on falling back what an achievement. 
i am convinced no airforce in the world would ever wish to achieve that milestone which itself is a shame to a nation.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

drunken-monke said:


> 1. The Tadpole is visible from couple of locations and videos are uploaded by Pakistani. Its not Indian imagination.
> 2. Mig 21 video is quite clear, burning debris. Tadpole is different.
> 3. Khayali Pulao by Pakistani forum members..



1. Tadpole is this idiot cybersurg theory which only indiots fallow. ALL western and Russian defence community have rejected indian claim. The term itself sounds sooo retarded and only used by indiots. 
2. the "tadpole" is nothing but a vapor trail and only indiots imagination can associate it with F-16 without backing it up with technical proof. 
3. both of Abhi's mig-21 R-73 have been recovered with serial numbers that can be traced back to IAF inventory. Also if that lying wh0re IAF female officer can give her interview about her role during 27th feb then why cant IAF let Abhi talk? dont give me that bull sh1t that IAF is a very professional AF that does not let its pilots speak. Their are plenty of IAF pilots videos on youtube bragging about their roles during kargil war and even during training sorties.

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## Liquidmetal

Mrc said:


> By the way they did not dodge any missiles. They ran away after missile locks.
> Missiles were never fired


And the one they displayed in their shit show called a press conference was pulled from the arse of the vaunted & idolised Sue "30" Makini - she was less of a Dodger - but actually - was truly Rogered.

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## Thorough Pro

LOL



Telescopic Sight said:


> A few people's posts are not indicative of some national sentiment.
> 
> If one thinks about it, surely there is a *successful agenda* behind the Indian Govt. reaction after Abhi got shot down.
> 
> PAF and the IAF will likely meet in the skies again . When ? The next general elections are in May 2024.


----------



## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Pak-Canuck said:


> Su-30 shot over azad kashmir, fell down in IOK, just like IOK residents and reporter described in these clips


Already busted that theory:

He is clearly talking about Abhinandan's MiG-21 since his Mig crash site in AJK was just 4 km from our sher makadi tehsil in J&K

Distance between Sher Makadi & MiG-21 crash site (Latitude: 33° 13' 54.6" North Longitude: 73° 57' 23.4" East) is about 5 km. And as Sher Makadi is just 2 km from LoC any crash smoke/fire there would be visible to Pakistanis just like MiG-21 crash smoke was visible to Indians. Which means Pakistanis would have then posted pics of smoke or fire on Indian side of LoC.

Also since the MiG-21 crash site was so close to Sher Makadi he though it might have crashed there. We know that Abhinandan MiG-21 came from the direction of Rajauri so his description matches exactly with Abhinandan MiG-21. He says he saw a plane crashing near Sher Makadi which is just 5 km from actual crash site of Abhinandan so he might have though that Abhinandan's falling plane came down in sher makadi.

Also he clearly mentions he saw ONE pilot ejecting whcih matches with Abhinandan MiG 21 description as Sukhois have two pilots

Most importantly he says he was behind a hill which means he did not have line of sight to crash site (could not direvtly see it).

Even prominent western Think tank DFRLab agrees that the MiG-21 was hit when it was moving towards India



Bossman said:


> One unique achievement that I found out about IAF and HAL is mind boggling. India is the only country in the world where brand new jets manufactured by HAL literally went directly from the factory to the junkyard. I am talking about the Marut HF24.


Hf-24 Maruts destroyed many Pakistani tanks in 71 war

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## Liquidmetal

Thorough Pro said:


> A nation of arseholes so basically in defence of their arse


Brilliant. The PAF calls them Saffron Bandits, should change it to Arse Bandits.

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## drunken-monke

Myth_buster_1 said:


> 1. Tadpole is this idiot cybersurg theory which only indiots fallow. ALL western and Russian defence community have rejected indian claim. The term itself sounds sooo retarded and only used by indiots.
> 2. the "tadpole" is nothing but a vapor trail and only indiots imagination can associate it with F-16 without backing it up with technical proof.
> 3. both of Abhi's mig-21 R-73 have been recovered with serial numbers that can be traced back to IAF inventory. Also if that lying wh0re IAF female officer can give her interview about her role during 27th feb then why cant IAF let Abhi talk? dont give me that bull sh1t that IAF is a very professional AF that does not let its pilots speak. Their are plenty of IAF pilots videos on youtube bragging about their roles during kargil war and even during training sorties.


If you see the downed abhi's mig 21, you can see the motor burn out on the top of rail. That's enough evidence that he fired r73.

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## Myth_buster_1

drunken-monke said:


> If you see the downed abhi's mig 21, you can see the motor burn out on the top of rail. That's enough evidence that he fired r73.


wait what?
Are you retarded or something? 
And tell me how exactly does a missile fly without motor? 
you are not even up to date with Indian propaganda factory.

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## Basel

So we shoot down this kind of Mig-21 Bison.

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## Ghessan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> wait what?
> Are you retarded or something?
> And tell me how exactly does a missile fly without motor?
> you are not even up to date with Indian propaganda factory.



well you answer yourself, he really is, this lot does not deserve a reply. if one can be densely stupid, its them.

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## Nomad40

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 624199
> 
> 
> @Horus @Dubious @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain
> @Ahmet Pasha @Ali_Baba @aliyusuf @Angry Easterling @ARMalik @Ark_Angel @Armchair @Arsalan 345 @assasiner @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @Ghessan @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @Haris Ali2140 @Haroon Baloch @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Jinn Baba @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @krash @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Mangus Ortus Novem @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @maximuswarrior @Metanoia @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @NA71 @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakSword @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PradoTLC @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Sabretooth @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Super Falcon @_Sherdils_ @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tps43 @TsAr @undercover JIX @Vortex @War Thunder @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar


LOLLLLLLLL what a shit show

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## Khanivore

Jaskier said:


> Hf-24 Maruts destroyed many Pakistani tanks in 71 war


But no gun-camera footage.


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## Bossman

Jaskier said:


> Hf-24 Maruts destroyed many Pakistani tanks in 71 war



Marut’s cockpit use to open up if it fired its Cannons so the answer is zero.


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## Suriya

Since it weekend and lock down.
I went down the memory lane.

And Watched this video of Abhinandan's Mig 21 wreckage. I didn't find one R-73 missile.






*Yes, there is a seeker of R-73 but where is rest of the body? The parts R-73 Pakistan put in the demo is missing in the debris in this video. If anyone can point those parts in this clip, it'll remove doubts creeping in my mind.*


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## Nomad40

drunken-monke said:


> If you see the downed abhi's mig 21, you can see the motor burn out on the top of rail. That's enough evidence that he fired r73.


Hello.

When there is air flow the burns from guns and missile are not a factor.

Nandu was shot down as soon as he came close to the LOC---------Any IAF plane will be shot down if breeced the 25 km LOC line and 50 km International border. 

I think yall should put This narrative to rest .


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## Khanivore

Here's a very telling piece from Jane's DW (6 FEB 2020), yet another *reassuring confirmation* on how much the IAF got rattled by PAF's shooting down of an Su-30MKI "Dodger", clearly due to its rubbish radar/RWR, weak EW suite and pilots lack of coordination/disorientation. All the tell-tell signs are there for anyone to see. The poor Indian PDFers continue to live in fantasy land.



Suriya said:


> Since it weekend and lock down.
> I went down the memory lane.
> 
> And Watched this video of Abhinandan's Mig 21 wreckage. I didn't find one R-73 missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, there is a seeker of R-73 but where is rest of the body? The parts R-73 Pakistan put in the demo is missing in the debris in this video. If anyone can point those parts in this clip, it'll remove doubts creeping in my mind.*


At 3:36 and at 4:35 in, you'll see the body of R-73 badly damaged, still attached to its pylon.


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## Trailer23

@Suriya 
The video you searched to go down memory lane isn't the only footage on the internet. I don't see the cameraman covering the whole jet, either. Its been shot by an amateur like you & I, and not by a professional Media Outlet.

I suggest you search harder - as you too are probably in lockdown (too). And since we are on Page# 624..., if you start scanning all the pages, you may get your answer - in detail.

In the mean time, here is bit more detailed information you are seeking by Air Vice Marshall Haseeb Paracha.

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## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> At 3:36 and at 4:35 in, you'll see the body of R-73 badly damaged, still attached to its pylon.


No, i'm looking for the other one. The one we see the seeker but rest of parts not seen in the clip. And in the demo put by Pakistan this missile was the least damaged one still missing in this 16 minute wreckage clip.


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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> Since it weekend and lock down.
> I went down the memory lane.
> 
> And Watched this video of Abhinandan's Mig 21 wreckage. I didn't find one R-73 missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, there is a seeker of R-73 but where is rest of the body? The parts R-73 Pakistan put in the demo is missing in the debris in this video. If anyone can point those parts in this clip, it'll remove doubts creeping in my mind.*



one indiot after another comes in thinking he has got the facts to prove us wrong but dont realize that it has been debunked 10000000 times by now.

The R-73 with visible seeker belongs to left wing which flipped upside own upon impact and exposed both damaged R-73 and R-77. The left wing took the most damage because that was where the missile impacted. The motor of that particular R-73 is still attached to launch rail. GO AND WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN!
As for the right wing, both missiles dislodged under the wing however some parts are still available. This has been discussed many times and i advised you to do bit of more research before acting like a dork.

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## Khanivore

Bossman said:


> Marut’s cockpit use to open up if it fired its Cannons so the answer is zero.


That's why no gun-camera footage. Case closed.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> No, i'm looking for the other one. The one we see the seeker but rest of parts not seen in the clip. And in the demo put by Pakistan this missile was the least damaged one still missing in this 16 minute wreckage clip.



its a f-cking wreckage! not a air show display! Do you expect all missiles to be perfectly displayed in front of the wreckage? The left wing missiles exploded upon impact thats why parts of them were scattered around the wreckage where as the right wing dislodged under the wing. 
Even the right wing R-77 is not fully visible because it was dislodged under the wreckage.


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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> No, i'm looking for the other one. The one we see the seeker but rest of parts not seen in the clip. And in the demo put by Pakistan this missile was the least damaged one still missing in this 16 minute wreckage clip.


You're basing your entire defence for R-73 on some amateur's footage?


----------



## maverick1977

Myth_buster_1 said:


> one indiot after another comes in thinking he has got the facts to prove us wrong but dont realize that it has been debunked 10000000 times by now.
> 
> The R-73 with visible seeker belongs to left wing which flipped upside own upon impact and exposed both damaged R-73 and R-77. The left wing took the most damage because that was where the missile impacted. The motor of that particular R-73 is still attached to launch rail. GO AND WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN!
> As for the right wing, both missiles dislodged under the wing however some parts are still available. This has been discussed many times and i advised you to do bit of more research before acting like a dork.



I waiting for them to come up with another excuse..
1) pakistan botched the wreckage and put in burnt parts of their own missiles.
2) pakistan got it from iraq or yemen or another soviet block and smoldered it and put it there.
3) they didnt allow third party impartial folks to look at it.
4) The plane crashed due to technical problems in india and was nmoved to pakistan by pakistani army. 
5) The plane was from 1999 kargil conflict and placed there. 

Indians please pick one of them and if more can you share your list of excuses. i cant be as creative as them but i tried folks

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## Khanivore

Myth_buster_1 said:


> its a f-cking wreckage! not a air show display! Do you expect all missiles to be perfectly displayed in front of the wreckage? The left wing missiles exploded upon impact thats why parts of them were scattered around the wreckage where as the right wing dislodged under the wing.
> Even the right wing R-77 is not fully visible because it was dislodged under the wreckage.


He's high on something. He expects all debris to miraculously be all layed out around the aircraft like some staged nonsense. The mentality beggars belief.






*Forgive me for my crude understanding, but reporter asks, "was it a helicopter or a jet?", answer: "jet, sir". This leads me to believe that Su-30MKI fell in vicinity and the chopper came to rescue. As the chopper circled overhead, IAF ordered shooting down of it's own chopper to create diversion from the first crash site, the killed Su-30MKI. Makes sense, eh? *

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## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> He's high on something. He expects all debris to miraculously be all layed out around the aircraft like some staged nonsense. The mentality beggars belief.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Forgive me for my crude understanding, but reporter asks, "was it a helicopter or a jet?", answer: "jet, sir". This leads me to believe that Su-30MKI fell in vicinity and the chopper came to rescue. As the chopper circled overhead, IAF ordered shooting down of it's own chopper to create diversion from the first crash site, the killed Su-30MKI. Makes sense, eh? *


*Budgam is more than 200 KM away from LoC.
Does PAF has missile that can hit a jet flying more than 200KM away from the LoC?? *


----------



## masterchief_mirza

Suriya said:


> Since it weekend and lock down.
> I went down the memory lane.
> 
> And Watched this video of Abhinandan's Mig 21 wreckage. I didn't find one R-73 missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, there is a seeker of R-73 but where is rest of the body? The parts R-73 Pakistan put in the demo is missing in the debris in this video. If anyone can point those parts in this clip, it'll remove doubts creeping in my mind.*




Is it lingering doubts in your mind or lingering stains due to wet dreams that need removing?


----------



## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> *Budgam is more than 200 KM away from LoC.
> Does PAF has missile that can hit a jet flying more than 200KM away from the LoC?? *


Have you seen the map?

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## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> Have you seen the map?


I've seen the place too.


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## xeuss

Khanivore said:


> *Forgive me for my crude understanding, but reporter asks, "was it a helicopter or a jet?", answer: "jet, sir". This leads me to believe that Su-30MKI fell in vicinity and the chopper came to rescue. As the chopper circled overhead, IAF ordered shooting down of it's own chopper to create diversion from the first crash site, the killed Su-30MKI. Makes sense, eh? *



Not really.


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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> I've seen the place too.


Look at the map I've attached. You're deluded. 



xeuss said:


> Not really.


Kindly like to expand on that or are you just saying it? The ANI journo got us a clear answer.

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## masterchief_mirza

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> * Raptor of the East... now Dogger of The East*.... *successfully dodging Yankee dandaz*..


"Dogger of the east". Brilliant. Without even intending to, you described this phenomenon perfectly. The IAF truly does now resemble some clown in a field with his pants around his ankles not even sure himself what he's doing.

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## xeuss

Khanivore said:


> Kindly like to expand on that or are you just saying it? The ANI journo got us a clear answer.



I generally follow the philosophy that the simplest explanation is usually the most logical explanation. Expecting the IAF to do what you say in the heat of the moment, when information all around was sketchy, seems far fetched.


----------



## Blacklight

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> And after *Operation Swift Retort* ..._*fell defeaning silence*_...for a couple of months PDF was deserted place... distress/disbelief in the* Legions of TheGreatPajeetEmpire*....
> 
> Then they the regrouped.... *fashioned new realities based on CloudumTheorum and E=MSee *fully powered by *Nuclear Indianness*...and *they surfaced back on PDF....*
> 
> Wave after wave...they came... TT after TT... Senior PakPoster after Senior PakPoster...tried... locked in* EpicBattle with the Legions of TheGreatPajeetEmpire*...with emperical evidence....with *Gora sahib's analyses*... *NOTHING.*
> *
> NOTHING could convince let alone defeat the Legions of TheGreatPajeetEmpire*.... *ever so confident after graduating from WhatsAppUni .... *
> 
> *F Sola, F Sola, F Sola*.... *sweet Abhi killing all with his inner E=MSee* ....and then from great depth of darkness rose *The Raptor of the East... now Dogger of The East*.... *successfully dodging Yankee dandaz*.... @StormBreaker @Blacklight @DESERT FIGHTER @Dazzler
> 
> *One does wonder will this EpicBattle will deliver any result.*..
> 
> Will the *Legions of TheGreatPajeetEmpire,* the* good Indians* ever have the moral courage... oh and that thing called Honour...to accept that :
> 
> We Came in Broad Daylight, Gave the _Danda_, Shot *Two Vimanaz *and went back to collect sweet Abhi from the hands of rather unpleased Paks... giving him ritual welcome...
> 
> Will this EpictBattle ever come to a conclusion? @SIPRA @Khanivore @masterchief_mirza



They even recruited a geriatric with a heart condition, and a majoosi hindutva 

As to your comment about Epic Battle = Well I wouldn't call it an "Epic Battle," any logical person can see, which side got left holding the c0ndom in their hands. They just come here to soothe their inferiority complexes and gloat.

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## Khanivore

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *One does wonder will this EpicBattle will deliver any result.*.. Will the *Legions of TheGreatPajeetEmpire,* the* good Indians* ever have the moral courage... oh and that thing called Honour...to accept that :


So far the Indian case has been utterly weak.

There are so many tell-tell signs that show the Su-30MKI got swatted like a fly on the wall inside IoK.

Eyewitness testimonies, IAF giving conflicting argument, with one source reporting *7 lost* Su-30MKIs, *few months later* HT paper reports *12 lost* while IAF looks for 12 replacements, whilsame time is IAF urgently looking to upgrade radar and EW/RWR systems + plus longer ranged BVRs for their Su-30MKI.

IAF is definitely acting rattled with their shifty behaviour. 



xeuss said:


> I generally follow the philosophy that the simplest explanation is usually the most logical explanation. Expecting the IAF to do what you did in the heat of the moment, when information all around was sketchy, seems far fetched.


Dude, why even bother with just this: *"Not really."* You got nothing to contribute so go play somewhere else.

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## xeuss

Khanivore said:


> Dude, why even bother with just this: *"Not really."* You got nothing to contribute so go play somewhere else.



Okay I'll go back to playing in the baby pool.


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## Khanivore

xeuss said:


> Okay I'll go back to playing in the baby pool.


Good boy.


----------



## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Bossman said:


> Marut’s cockpit use to open up if it fired its Cannons so the answer is zero.


Another epic fail.
Maruts had problems only when all 4 guns fired together. HAL engineers easily solved it by removing 2 guns and keeping the other 2.


----------



## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> I've seen the place too.


You need your eyes checked. Stop trolling if you've not got the facts. The map shows Bugdam in IoK clearly to be close to LoC.


----------



## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Khanivore said:


> Forgive me for my crude understanding, but reporter asks, "was it a helicopter or a jet?", answer: "jet, sir". This leads me to believe that Su-30MKI fell in vicinity and the chopper came to rescue. As the chopper circled overhead, IAF ordered shooting down of it's own chopper to create diversion from the first crash site, the killed Su-30MKI. Makes sense, eh?


That is because this simple minded villager got confused as the Mi-17 crashed at 1000AM whereas MiG-21s were scrambled from Srinagar and Awantipora at 1001AM & 1003AM.


> The helicopter crashed in Budgam around 10 a.m on February 27





> Two Mig-21 Bisons were scrambled in two lots (10:01AM and 10:03AM) from Srinagar and Awantipora.



Which means he goy confused as he saw both the helicopters and jets over 
head at about the same time.


----------



## Khanivore

Jaskier said:


> Another epic fail.
> Maruts had problems only when all 4 guns fired together. HAL engineers easily solved it by removing 2 guns and keeping the other 2.


Then where's your evidence of Maruts' tank kills?


----------



## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Khanivore said:


> Then where's your evidence of Maruts' tank kills?


https://warisboring.com/indias-awful-hf-24-jet-fighter-proved-itself-in-combat/

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## Khanivore

Jaskier said:


> That is because this simple minded villager got confused as the Mi-17 crashed at 1000AM whereas MiG-21s were scrambled from Srinagar and Awantipora at 1001AM & 1003AM. Which means he goy confused as he saw both the helicopters and jets over head at about the same time.


Interesting. Where did you get this info from? Source?


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jaskier said:


> That is because this simple minded villager got confused as the Mi-17 crashed at 1000AM whereas MiG-21s were scrambled from Srinagar and Awantipora at 1001AM & 1003AM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which means he goy confused as he saw both the helicopters and jets over
> head at about the same time.



That wreckage is not Su-30 so the pakistanis claiming it to be su-30 are wrong.
However their is a video of a kashmiri describing the event when mi-17 was shot down. he said their were several fighter jets circling above the mi-17 and then saw several missile fired at it. 
So its most likely PAF fighter jet that entered Indian air space and shot down the chopper. PAF does not officially claim it because Indians will be butt hurt which will then escalate the tension.


----------



## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Myth_buster_1 said:


> So its most likely PAF fighter jet that entered Indian air space and shot down the chopper.


No PAF fighter jets entered Indian airspace.
Eyewitness saw a missile rising from ground.


Khanivore said:


> Interesting. Where did you get this info from? Source?


https://www.newsclick.in/Budgam-Crash-IAF-Missile-Friendly-Fire-6-Personnel-Killed-Pulwama-Balakot

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/specials/2020/02/28/hit-and-run.amp.html


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## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> You need your eyes checked. Stop trolling if you've not got the facts. The map shows Bugdam in IoK clearly to be close to LoC.


Budgam is adjacent to Srinagar so you can say Srinagar is also close to LoC. Yes, whole of kashmir is close to LoC. So what?


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## Khanivore

Jaskier said:


> https://www.newsclick.in/Budgam-Crash-IAF-Missile-Friendly-Fire-6-Personnel-Killed-Pulwama-Balakot
> https://www.theweek.in/theweek/specials/2020/02/28/hit-and-run.amp.html


The same sources that claim Abhi shot down an F-16?


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## Suriya

Jaskier said:


> No PAF fighter jets entered Indian airspace.
> Eyewitness saw a missile rising from ground.


He must have confused the SAM trail with a jet.
He also say there were three pilots who came out of the 'jet wreckage'. And people here want to believe him.

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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> Budgam is adjacent to Srinagar so you can say Srinagar is also close to LoC. Yes, whole of kashmir is close to LoC. So what?


You said above that Bugdam was *200km from LoC*.


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## SIPRA

Khanivore said:


> The same sources that claim Abhi shot down an F-16?



.....and 350 atankwadis were killed in Balakot strike, in addition to a crow.

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## Khanivore

Myth_buster_1 said:


> That wreckage is not Su-30 so the pakistanis claiming it to be su-30 are wrong.


Nobody here claimed that the Mi-17's wreckage was of Su-30MKI's. My own guess is that the Mi-17 was out to SAR the Su-30MKI crash site when IAF shot it down to create diversion, and hid the chopper's black box, blaming the villagers _stole it_.



Suriya said:


> *Budgam is more than 200 KM away from LoC.
> Does PAF has missile that can hit a jet flying more than 200KM away from the LoC?? *


What did you actually mean then?

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## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> You said above that Bugdam was *200km from LoC*.


Yes, if not 200 it's 150KM. Bugdam isn't on the LoC. Moreover Mi-17 crashed near Srinagar end in Bugdam dist. Check the site of the crash.


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## NA71

Khanivore said:


> Nobody here claimed that the Mi-17's wreckage was of Su-30MKI's. My own guess is that the Mi-17 was out to SAR the Su-30MKI crash site when IAF shot it down to create diversion, and hid the chopper's black box, blaming the villagers _stole it_.
> 
> 
> What did you actually mean then?


And to give it further twist a counter claim of F16 shot down was injected in Indian media....that overwhelmed the real SU30MKI kill and Indians started jumping with Fake F16 kill....thats how it all began.

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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> Yes, if not 200 it's 150KM. Bugdam isn't on the LoC. Moreover Mi-17 crashed near Srinagar end in Bugdam dist. Check the site of the crash.


Please be sure as to much it is, e.g. 200km, 150km, etc. Give an exact figure. And FYI, PAF fighters penetrated IoK airspace, in case you're unaware.



NA71 said:


> And to give it further twist a counter claim of F16 shot down was injected in Indian media....that overwhelmed the real SU30MKI kill and Indians started jumping with Fake F16 kill....thats how it all began.


Yup, I'm well aware of their disinfo tactics. India Today botched it up tho.


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## airomerix

Suriya said:


> *Budgam is more than 200 KM away from LoC.
> Does PAF has missile that can hit a jet flying more than 200KM away from the LoC?? *



It is 50 km from LoC. What are you smoking?

Guess how many missiles does PAF have encapsulating this distance?

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## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> Nobody here claimed that the Mi-17's wreckage was of Su-30MKI's. *My own guess is that the Mi-17 was out to SAR the Su-30MKI crash site* when IAF shot it down to create diversion, and hid the chopper's black box, blaming the villagers _stole it_.


 Another wild assumption without any basis.
_*Mi17 was returning to Srinagar airbase after regular mission and not flying out of it on SAR*_ when it was mistaken as an armed drone threat to Srinagar airbase and it was air defense at Srinagar airbase that ordered it's shot down.



airomerix said:


> It is 50 km from LoC. What are you smoking?
> 
> Guess how many missiles does PAF have encapsulating this distance?


50 km? Yes, may be in Pakistani map.


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## airomerix

Suriya said:


> Another wild assumption without any basis.
> _*Mi17 was returning to Srinagar airbase after regular mission and not flying out of it on SAR*_ when it was mistaken as an armed drone threat to Srinagar airbase and it was air defense at Srinagar airbase that ordered it's shot down.
> 
> 
> 50 km? Yes, may be in Pakistani map.




Really? Looks like you have trouble accessing maps in India.

This is an open source google map in UK. Looking forward to your next face save.

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## Suriya

airomerix said:


> View attachment 624527


Yes, the shortest distance from LoC. And naturally that was the path PAF flew in.


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## airomerix

Suriya said:


> Yes, the shortest distance from LoC. And naturally that was the path PAF flew in.



How i'm loving this. 

Now tell me, 200 km poora ker beta kahin se. 

Waiting for another blunder of yours 

Shortest distance. 





Another angle (for your crying out loud) 





Another angle (if it makes you feel any better.

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## Suriya

airomerix said:


> How i'm loving this.
> 
> Now tell me, 200 km poora ker beta kahin se.
> 
> Waiting for another blunder of yours


Jammu side se bhi dekh le. 
What's your point again? You think u could shot down a Mi17 in Budgam.

Beta, Fact remains, none of your fighters crossed LoC. And to prevent our CAPs from intercepting those PAF fighters who came near the LoC for launching SoWs, PAF had to break ROE and resort to firing BVRs at DMAX range while flying so deep inside Pakistan that BVR on Su30s couldn't lock them. Rest is fiction and wild imagination.

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## airomerix

Suriya said:


> Jammu side se bhi dekh le.



Measure it from USA. It might appear impossible then. Idiot. 




> What's your point again? You think u could shot down a Mi17 in Budgam.



The point is, that you're a filthy liar. Who is misquoting values to prove that Su's couldn't be shot down.



> Beta, Fact remains, none of your fighters crossed LoC. And to prevent our CAPs from intercepting those PAF fighters who came near the LoC for launching SoWs, PAF had to break ROE and resort to firing BVRs at DMAX range while flying so deep inside Pakistan that BVR on Su30s couldn't lock them. Rest is fiction and wild imagination.



Your fiction. Cant do anything about it. Live with shame. So called AMRAAM dodgers.

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## Suriya

airomerix said:


> The point is, that you're a filthy liar. Who is misquoting values to prove that Su's couldn't be shot down.


Cut it out. You know if we start abusing in return we would get banned so not exactly a place to prove ur machismo.

Forget what you think couldn't or shouldn't be done.

Fact remains PAF played safe.

PAF had to break ROE in a desperate bid to scuttle interception of their incoming ground attack bogies.

Now see the difference with IAF, our fighters didn't need to break ROE to launch SoW on a target 60KM behind LoC on 26th Feb.

Moreover the only Indian fighter, Mig21 that crossed LoC , that too had be taken out by a BVR fired from a F-16 maintaining a safe distance and you want PAF to shoot down our assets in deep inside Indian territory near a place at Srinagar, Budgam. Not happening.

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## Aliph Ahmed

Damn it. I am late to the party but I guess better late than never.

Not sure why this topic is hot again. Did Indian airforce release evidence backing up their claim of shooting down a PAF F 16 and killing of 350 pakistani civilians on Pak Side of LOC?

Is that a yes??

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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> Yes, the shortest distance from LoC. And naturally that was the path PAF flew in.


You made a wild assumption and was nowhere near being realistic, instead you made yourself a fool.

_"Bugdam 200km from LoC"_ -- Suriya. 



Aliph Ahmed said:


> Damn it. I am late to the party but I guess better late than never.
> 
> Not sure why this topic is hot again. Did Indian airforce release evidence backing up their claim of shooting down a PAF F 16 and killing of 350 pakistani civilians on Pak Side of LOC?
> 
> Is that a yes??


It's a negative. They've released jacksh*t.



Suriya said:


> Another wild assumption without any basis.
> _*Mi17 was returning to Srinagar airbase after regular mission and not flying out of it on SAR*_ when it was mistaken as an armed drone threat to Srinagar airbase and it was air defense at Srinagar airbase that ordered it's shot down.


Based on what? You need to back your nonsense up with some sources.



Suriya said:


> Jammu side se bhi dekh le.
> What's your point again? You think u could shot down a Mi17 in Budgam.
> 
> Beta, Fact remains, none of your fighters crossed LoC. And to prevent our CAPs from intercepting those PAF fighters who came near the LoC for launching SoWs, PAF had to break ROE and resort to firing BVRs at DMAX range while flying so deep inside Pakistan that BVR on Su30s couldn't lock them. Rest is fiction and wild imagination.


Fact remains: you're a dodger like your IAF pilots flying their Su-30MKI Raptor of The East / Mini-AWACS.



Suriya said:


> *Budgam is more than 200 KM away from LoC.
> Does PAF has missile that can hit a jet flying more than 200KM away from the LoC?? *

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## Green disc

Has the DG ISPR said - india got slapped in the face, does it matter which hand done it

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## Myth_buster_1

Jaskier said:


> No PAF fighter jets entered Indian airspace.
> Eyewitness saw a missile rising from ground.
> 
> https://www.newsclick.in/Budgam-Crash-IAF-Missile-Friendly-Fire-6-Personnel-Killed-Pulwama-Balakot
> 
> https://www.theweek.in/theweek/specials/2020/02/28/hit-and-run.amp.html



*WRONG!*

Here is a video of Kashmiri locals describing PAF raid on Indian occupied Kashmir. 
(before you act like a dumb@ss NO they are not talking about mi-17 but some idiot from the media is playing wrong video of a helicopter)








Suriya said:


> Yes, if not 200 it's 150KM. Bugdam isn't on the LoC. Moreover Mi-17 crashed near Srinagar end in Bugdam dist. Check the site of the crash.



why did you run away from my reply you coward?

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## Aliph Ahmed

Khanivore said:


> It's a negative. They've released jacksh*t.
> 
> 
> .



Oh still same approach of Indian Air force, believe us or you are a traitor?

Damn it. I thought they finally released new evidence related to :

Taking out a PAF F16 (no proof, no pic of wreckage, no satellite pic) - PAF not only countered the claim but a report was issued related to a US agency counting of all PAF F16. 

Killing of 350 pakistani civilians on pak side of LOC (Not a single video despite having satellites of their own or from the firing jet or from the SOW itself) - Pakistan not only countered but took journalists to prove that only a crow and some trees died) 

PAF firing multiple AMRAMs (but india found wreckage of only one AMRAM despite swarming whole of indian occupied kashmir with 900,000 Indian State Terrorists.) - another claim which was refuted by PAF.

I can understand if the indian government lied or manipulated the beating received by PAF but seeing the indian air force chief himself telling lies was just shocking!

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> Jammu side se bhi dekh le.
> What's your point again? You think u could shot down a Mi17 in Budgam.
> 
> Beta, Fact remains, none of your fighters crossed LoC. And to prevent our CAPs from intercepting those PAF fighters who came near the LoC for launching SoWs, PAF had to break ROE and resort to firing BVRs at DMAX range while flying so deep inside Pakistan that BVR on Su30s couldn't lock them. Rest is fiction and wild imagination.



another ownage for Indians. 

*https://www.news18.com/news/india/w...ot-strike-hinges-on-one-question-2134039.html*

*“There were around three aircraft flying at that time*,” says 36-year-old Fahmeeda, who was in the lawn of her house at the time of the crash.“Two jets were flying over the chopper. The Jets were very high and at a very fast speed,” she says.

Seeing the legion of fighter planes, she and the other villagers thought that a war between India and Pakistan has started.* “I was looking at the sky and could see the chopper and then suddenly there was something like a shooting star that struck the tail of the chopper,” *Fahmeeda recalls.

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## Telescopic Sight

Trailer23 said:


> Eh..., what color Jacket do you want this time 'round?



Inadvertently , you have brought up one of the most repulsive practices of your armed forces. Robbing POWs and dead enemy soldiers of their uniforms. Never heard of any other civilized military do these things. Please don't ask me why , when. etc. Google is your friend.



GumNaam said:


> no your airforce calls "dropping your payload in the middle of the jungle and running with your tails between your legs" as code "bhangi"!



The IAF seems to have leisurely bombed Pakistan territory and left. Did they kill 300 terrorists ? I don't know, nor do you. Your military took 45 days to show some select people the site. And now, even that is not possible. Even you would not be allowed there !
The PAF bombed Indian side of Kashmir and hit absolutely nothing ( as per themselves ). 
Also dropped their own payload on their own side of the border. 

So what are you calling the PAF here ? Since their performance in BOMBING ( only bombing ) seems the same. I await your 'intelligent' response .

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## Aliph Ahmed

Telescopic Sight said:


> Inadvertently , you have brought up one of the most repulsive practices of your armed forces. Robbing POWs and dead enemy soldiers of their uniforms. Never heard of any other civilized military do these things. Please don't ask me why , when. etc. Google is your friend.
> 
> 
> 
> The IAF seems to have leisurely bombed Pakistan territory and left. Did they kill 300 terrorists ? I don't know, nor do you. Your military took 45 days to show some select people the site. And now, even that is not possible. Even you would not be allowed there !
> The PAF bombed Indian side of Kashmir and hit absolutely nothing ( as per themselves ).
> Also dropped their own payload on their own side of the border.
> 
> So what are you calling the PAF here ? Since their performance in BOMBING ( only bombing ) seems the same. I await your 'intelligent' response .



First of all Abhi or whatever that indian. Pilot was not a POW as no war was declared. For all I know, he probably asked for new clothes to look good with his wife for photoshoot .

What India did was Shab e Khoon. Attacking at night without declaring war. That is cowarness (beghairatee) at its height. Pakistan not only went in after giving warning but also showed the video from their SOW how the indian target was locked and then unlocked to purposely miss. 

If i recall, you guys did not even salute him when receiving him at the border. So dont give us professionalism

Secondly, if india attacked and claimed of killing 350 people then onus to proof the claim rests solely WITH India why does Pakistan have to go extra mile to refute. Where is the indian proof?

You indian guys never cease to ask for pakistani proof about shooting down indian. SU30 MKI by PAF JF17 block 2 but where is the Indian proof??

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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> Inadvertently , you have brought up one of the most repulsive practices of your armed forces. Robbing POWs and dead enemy soldiers of their uniforms. Never heard of any other civilized military do these things. Please don't ask me why , when. etc. Google is your friend.
> 
> 
> 
> The IAF seems to have leisurely bombed Pakistan territory and left. Did they kill 300 terrorists ? I don't know, nor do you. Your military took 45 days to show some select people the site. And now, even that is not possible. Even you would not be allowed there !
> The PAF bombed Indian side of Kashmir and hit absolutely nothing ( as per themselves ).
> Also dropped their own payload on their own side of the border.
> 
> So what are you calling the PAF here ? Since their performance in BOMBING ( only bombing ) seems the same. I await your 'intelligent' response .


here we go again with the typical yindian bhaand tamasha!  its already been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you couldn't kill anyone one save 2 trees and a crow.  save yourself further humiliation...next time, save your "payload" for bollywood movies!!!


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## Telescopic Sight

GumNaam said:


> here we go again with the typical yindian bhaand tamasha!  its already been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you couldn't kill anyone one save 2 trees and a crow.  save yourself further humiliation...next time, save your "payload" for bollywood movies!!!



Stop escaping my question . According to your expert knowledge of Air Operations, what part of PAF's bombing performance differentiates it from your understanding of 'BHANGI air force'?

Hope to read some technical reply, and not the words that represent your culture and upbringing.


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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> Stop escaping my question . According to your expert knowledge of Air Operations, what part of PAF's bombing performance differentiates it from your understanding of 'BHANGI air force'?
> 
> Hope to read some technical reply, and not the words that represent your culture and upbringing.


Uh, PAF bombed you in broad daylight 6 times over without the bhangis being able to fire off a single shot in their defense while the bhangi air farts tried to sneak in during the dead of the night, panicked, dropped their "payload" on a single challenge and ran away with their maxipads between their legs!  on top of that, the one single chance the bhangis did get to shoot back, they ended up shooting down their on helicopter chuck full of 8 bhangis!

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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> The IAF seems to have leisurely bombed Pakistan territory and left. Did they kill 300 terrorists ? I don't know, nor do you. Your military took 45 days to show some select people the site. And now, even that is not possible. Even you would not be allowed there !
> The PAF bombed Indian side of Kashmir and hit absolutely nothing ( as per themselves ).
> Also dropped their own payload on their own side of the border.
> 
> So what are you calling the PAF here ? Since their performance in BOMBING ( only bombing ) seems the same. I await your 'intelligent' response .



what a load of BS.
Has India provided any evidence such as its own super duper military satellites pictures of the attack? 
Also a 2,000 lbs obliterates structures such as the once in balakot instead what we saw was some imaginary pixel represented as penetration marks from indians.

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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> Forget the IAF, where are the photos of the PAF's bombing results ? Can you share some crater marks or anything from your side ? Or will you depend on photos released by the Indian army ? In other words, without Indian photos, PAF has NO proof.
> So pl reconsider this demand for proof.
> Just ask yourself why it takes 45 days plus for 1 visit to the Balakot terror compound. And why no more visitors are allowed there .
> So in other words, you have NO real reply. You just shared some language you overheard at home while growing up.
> Sorry for you.



Here is a proof that PAF went inside India and dropped bombs within visual sites of the target. NOTE: It was never in Pakistan's intention to inflict any damages on ground which would have escalated the situation instead the point was to send strong message to India to back off and know your place. 





Here is a TV guided missile footage of one of Indian target. again, it was steered away at last minute to avoid ground casualty.






If Pakistan was trying to hide balakot strike then even google earth or any other satellite would have gathered evidence. NO structure was damaged so NO casualty. Its just indian imagination and nothing more.
A 2,000 lbs bomb obliterates structures even it is sitting on top of a bunker (again indian imagination that their is a bunker on hill top).
why it took 45 days?? maybe because it was not safe for foreigners to visit the site right away since the area was under tense situation after 26th feb??? 

Now you tell me, why is india hiding PAF ground strikes on indian territory??? why have they taken over year and still have not released any photos of damage done by PAF JF-17 and Mirage-III that violated Indian sovereignty? even if trees and empty fields were targeted it still qualifies as "violation of a nation's sovereignty"!


And why did IAF let this pathological liar IAF female officer speak to media while the guy who apparently shot down F-16 is still hiding in a closet! lol

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## Aliph Ahmed

Where is the Indian proof?

What i find the funniest is that these delusional indians never cease to ask for proof that PAF Jf17 block 2 shot down the mighty indian SU30 MKI with an RCS of Taj Mahal but they themselves provide no proof to their fantasized claims

I wonder what is hurting the Indian egos more:

A. The last skirmish decisively won by Pakistan and hence Kargil overshadowed.

B. PAF giving a bloody nose to Indian Air force and indian air force losing 3 aircrafts (SU30MKI, MIG21 Bison and a mil Helicopter for ZERO (0) PAF losses.


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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> Poor & low class upbringing , combined with abysmal general knowledge has led you to this post. Seek help. BTW, you may not realize this, but you ended up abusing your own AF in your earlier posts ! Oops !


oh how how tell me tell me cuz I really don't give a turd but do tell me as if I give a crap about anything that a delusional sanghi has to say, go ahead, PRETEND!

and yeah bas kia karain us low caste people with a low class upbringing have a bad habit of fingering your upper caste & upper class bungholes until your begging for 2 fingers!!! We are adat say majboor, what're ya gonna do!

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## ziaulislam

Telescopic Sight said:


> 1. You seem to NOT understand what I have posted. I literally asked you not to come for help from me in a basic Google search. And now you do EXACTLY THAT. Instead you post a Cold War photo ! Why?
> 
> 2. Glad you remember Nachiketa . That's another case where his uniform was stolen , when he was in Pak Army custody for a week. What this fetish for stolen uniforms , I don't know. I must point out that this nonsense seems to be a P.A. thing. Not a PAF thing.
> 
> 3. Wonderful explanation for the Israeli thing. ' Only a Muslim would understand '. Sorry, no Muslim that I know in India ( in my 3 decades growing up ) or in the US will consider stealing clothes from a dead man and displaying in homes and museums an act of a civilized man / force .
> 
> If you are incapable of understanding this, either you dont read English well , or you choose not to. And please do not derail this thread further.
> 
> EDIT : Just saw the 2nd post by @Myth_buster_1 . Good to know that you can at least copy paste well!
> 
> I don't know why you rely on the same villager's interview in multiple posts. If you think he is more intelligent than your DG ISPR, you are probably right
> 
> But in case you trust your 'general twitter' more, here is his official statement
> 
> Director General of the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major General Asif Ghafoor has addressed a press conference today.
> 
> 
> 
> The Pakistan military spokesperson said, "Since today morning activity has been ongoing at LoC. This morning PAF engaged six targets across LoC *from within Pakistani airspace."*
> 
> 
> Doubts cleared ? Or now will you have some childish explanations as to why you know more than your DG ISPR ?
> 
> That's all from me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor & low class upbringing , combined with abysmal general knowledge has led you to this post. Seek help. BTW, you may not realize this, but you ended up abusing your own AF in your earlier posts ! Oops !


Did you saw satellite images..
They are full HD image of indian shame..
Even the most patriotic indian who has some neurons left knows what a bad miss was it..

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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> 1. You seem to NOT understand what I have
> EDIT : Just saw the 2nd post by @Myth_buster_1 . Good to know that you can at least copy paste well!
> 
> I don't know why you rely on the same villager's interview in multiple posts. If you think he is more intelligent than your DG ISPR, you are probably right
> 
> But in case you trust your 'general twitter' more, here is his official statement
> 
> Director General of the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) Major General Asif Ghafoor has addressed a press conference today.
> 
> 
> 
> The Pakistan military spokesperson said, "Since today morning activity has been ongoing at LoC. This morning PAF engaged six targets across LoC *from within Pakistani airspace."*
> 
> 
> Doubts cleared ? Or now will you have some childish explanations as to why you know more than your DG ISPR ?



*Pakistan government does not want to claim the fallowing 2 things.*

*1.* Mi-17 kill (Multiple Indian occupied kashmiris described the event when few fighter jets were circling above the helicopter when they saw missile hit it from above).
This Indian cover up story itself is an embarrassment to defence community around the world as it does not make any sense. 
Spyder missile defence system is one of the most advance in the world and is more then capable enough to identify friend or foe and also differentiate slow moving flying object from fast fighter jets. Its was a thing of the past where military would rely on ground observers to identify aircraft type but now modern defence systems have taken over that role and I can tell you for a fact that Spyder system is more then capable of alerting ground crew of aircraft type! Also as Indian military claims that the chopper was returning back from normal flying routine I am pretty sure its a SOP to identify yourself when you are within certain distance of military air base. 
And I am also sure India has one of the latest Command and Control system where such mistakes can only occur by rogue state fire at anything they see without any coordination. Where as in Pakistan before anything is fired it gets cleared by higher ups through proper chain of command thats why during OBL raid no body fired from ground and same with recently incident where Indian air line in Pakistan air space. 

*2.* PAF intrusion of Indian air space (Multiple Indian occupied kashmiris including sardar g described PAF intrusion in Indian air space when they dropped armament and went away).

By Pakistan denying the two things above it is helping Indian government from avoiding public humiliation and escalation. 
Its like two opponents fight on the street one guy (pakistan) beats the sh1t out of the other guy (india) but they both agree to keep it between themselves because the guy (Pakistan) can avoid being arrested by police and the other guy (India) can save his image among his friend who claims to be a big gansta and play it off that he yet again fought 10 guys alone and beat all of them up.


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## Suriya

Aliph Ahmed said:


> Where is the Indian proof?
> 
> What i find the funniest is that these delusional indians never cease to ask for proof that PAF Jf17 block 2 shot down the mighty indian SU30 MKI with an RCS of Taj Mahal but they themselves provide no proof to their fantasized claims


THis person still believes it was a Jf17 block 2 shot down the mighty indian SU30 MKI. There are lot more people like him. There was so much propaganda around 27th feb, when Pakistan made few correction nobody paid attention to them.

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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Here is a video of Kashmiri locals describing PAF raid on Indian occupied Kashmir.
> (before you act like a dumb@ss NO they are not talking about mi-17 but some idiot from the media is playing wrong video of a helicopter)


Locals are simple villagers who have no idea about airspaces and which jets belong to which country, so their words have zero credibility.
Even PAF was forced to accept that their jets could not cross LoC


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## GumNaam

Suriya said:


> THis person still believes it was a Jf17 block 2 shot down the mighty indian SU30 MKI. There are lot more people like him. There was so much propaganda around 27th feb, when Pakistan made few correction nobody paid attention to them.


JF17 or F16 shot down the su30, as our good DGISPR said, just take your pick on which aircraft killed your "mighty indian su30 mki"...cuz those two parachutes in the iok airspace came from somewhere & that AMRAAM hit something now didn't it?

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## Myth_buster_1

IAF Meteor missile said:


> Locals are simple villagers who have no idea about airspaces and which jets belong to which country, so their words have zero credibility.
> Even PAF was forced to accept that their jets could not cross LoC



But remember India's entire evidence of F-16 kill is based on Pakistani kashmiri shouting "dosra banda" 2nd person! Which turned out to be Mig-21 second parachute for ejection seat which villagers had mistaken for another pilot.

Also you dont need to have degree in aerospace to qualify to speak about a mere incident that occurred with fighter jets dropping bombs. Trust me it does not take a genius to figure out which air force would have done that unless Indian air force like to bomb its own military and land back in Pakistan. 

I know, truth is hard to swallow for you guys.


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## Suriya

GumNaam said:


> JF17 or F16 shot down the su30, as our good DGISPR said, just take your pick on which aircraft killed your "mighty indian su30 mki"...cuz those two parachutes in the iok airspace came from somewhere & that AMRAAM hit something now didn't it?


Yaa, we saw good DGISPR retreating his statements again and again.

Now that Pakistan has built a plank claim it was F-16 that shot down a 'Su30', bombast like take your pick sound more like an anomaly that has been carried on disregarding own stated version.

Did anyone see two parachutes in the iok airspace? Hell no.

AMRAAM hit a man and injured him in Raisi distrct in Jammu and nothing else.


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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> THis person still believes it was a Jf17 block 2 shot down the mighty indian SU30 MKI. There are lot more people like him. There was so much propaganda around 27th feb, when Pakistan made few correction nobody paid attention to them.



The entire world defence community agrees with Pakistan that no F-16 was shot down. Its only some delusional indiots who are still crying to prove it wrong. 
Their is more evidence to believe that Su-30 was shot down then their is to believe F-16 was shot down.

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## padamchen

More than a year has passed.

Pakistanis.

Sit down and ask yourselves.

What did you achieve.

Indians.

Let's sit and ask ourselves.

What did we achieve.


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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> Yaa, we saw good DGISPR retreating his statements again and again.
> 
> Now that Pakistan has built a plank claim it was F-16 that shot down a 'Su30', bombast like take your pick sound more like an anomaly that has been carried on disregarding own stated version.
> 
> Did anyone see two parachutes in the iok airspace? Hell no.
> 
> AMRAAM hit a man and injured him in Raisi distrct in Jammu and nothing else.



No indiot, it was air to ground weapon that was used to target vicinity of indian military. 
Its amazing how 1 out of 5 AMRAAM was recovered within few hours of incident while 1 year has past and not other AMRAAM has been located by mighty AMRAAM dodger military LOL.
Let me also tell you why AMRAAM was located so quickly, because it was pulled out from burning @rse of mighty su-30 wreckage. 
and if defeat had a face it would be these clowns.
LOL they all look mad because PAF shot down IAF Su-30 and defeated because they lost SU-30 (asian raptor)lol


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## GumNaam

Suriya said:


> Yaa, we saw good DGISPR retreating his statements again and again.
> 
> Now that Pakistan has built a plank claim it was F-16 that shot down a 'Su30', bombast like take your pick sound more like an anomaly that has been carried on disregarding own stated version.
> 
> Did anyone see two parachutes in the iok airspace? Hell no.
> 
> AMRAAM hit a man and injured him in Raisi distrct in Jammu and nothing else.


the AMRAAM hit...a man...was the man flying in the air?  unless the man was in the air, that AMRAAM killed something that was also in the air & it wasn't the indian mi17! Think we all know what the AMRAAM killed now don't we?

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## Myth_buster_1

padamchen said:


> More than a year has passed.
> 
> Pakistanis.
> 
> Sit down and ask yourselves.
> 
> What did you achieve.
> 
> Indians.
> 
> Let's sit and ask ourselves.
> 
> What did we achieve.



Pakistan is proud of the fact that they have defeated Super Power India in 2019 Skirmish. That is their achievement. 
Thank you



GumNaam said:


> the AMRAAM hit...a man...was the man flying in the air?  unless the man was in the air, that AMRAAM killed something that was also in the air & it wasn't the indian mi17! Think we all know what the AMRAAM killed now don't we?



No, AMRAAM did not shot down Mi-17 since eyewitness claimed of seeing multiple fighter jets circling above Mi-17 before it was shot down. and F-16s did not even cross the border as it would violate contract.

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## Jackdaws

padamchen said:


> More than a year has passed.
> 
> Pakistanis.
> 
> Sit down and ask yourselves.
> 
> What did you achieve.
> 
> Indians.
> 
> Let's sit and ask ourselves.
> 
> What did we achieve.



Redrew the line showing that targets in Pakistan proper, not just Pak Kashmir were legitimate targets. This reversed the Indian policy of non response as witnessed during 26/11. Pak Army and ISI hiding behind "non state actors" wasn't kosher anymore as India was willing to escalate under the nuclear umbrella.

Pak had to respond and it did. They had a domestic audience to please too. They showed they will respond to Indian escalation. 

That's fine. India would rather fight Pak forces than deal with the diplomatic and legal hassle of dealing with "non state actors" which had given the Pak Army and ISI plausible deniability.

India has not even bothered unleashing its most potent force - the Indian Navy whose capabilities are significantly more than those of the Pak Navy. 

After Indian escalation, India abrogated Article 370 and Pakistan has been able to do nothing about it except complain in some international forums.

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## padamchen

Jackdaws said:


> Redrew the line showing that targets in Pakistan proper, not just Pak Kashmir were legitimate targets. This reversed the Indian policy of non response as witnessed during 26/11. Pak Army and ISI hiding behind "non state actors" wasn't kosher anymore as India was willing to escalate under the nuclear umbrella.
> 
> Pak had to respond and it did. They had a domestic audience to please too. They showed they will respond to Indian escalation.
> 
> That's fine. India would rather fight Pak forces than deal with the diplomatic and legal hassle of dealing with "non state actors" which had given the Pak Army and ISI plausible deniability.
> 
> India has not even bothered unleashing its most potent force - the Indian Navy whose capabilities are significantly more than those of the Pak Navy.
> 
> After Indian escalation, India abrogated Article 370 and Pakistan has been able to do nothing about it except complain in some international forums.



Spot on.

We pushed their fake redlines way back.

And they backed off.

And we went ahead in that knowledge and finished the Kashmir issue once and for all

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## GumNaam

Jackdaws said:


> Redrew the line showing that targets in Pakistan proper, not just Pak Kashmir were legitimate targets. This reversed the Indian policy of non response as witnessed during 26/11. Pak Army and ISI hiding behind "non state actors" wasn't kosher anymore as India was willing to escalate under the nuclear umbrella.
> 
> Pak had to respond and it did. They had a domestic audience to please too. They showed they will respond to Indian escalation.
> 
> That's fine. India would rather fight Pak forces than deal with the diplomatic and legal hassle of dealing with "non state actors" which had given the Pak Army and ISI plausible deniability.
> 
> India has not even bothered unleashing its most potent force - the Indian Navy whose capabilities are significantly more than those of the Pak Navy.
> 
> After Indian escalation, India abrogated Article 370 and Pakistan has been able to do nothing about it except complain in some international forums.


Pakistan projected its power by demonstrating that We can bomb any heavily defended space in iok.

an indian got a fantashtik cup of tea out of it & abrogated some irrelevant article that no one obeyed in india in the first place...big whup!

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## Telescopic Sight

Myth_buster_1 said:


> *Pakistan government does not want to claim the fallowing 2 things.*
> 
> *1.* Mi-17 kill (Multiple Indian occupied kashmiris described the event when few fighter jets were circling above the helicopter when they saw missile hit it from above).
> This Indian cover up story itself is an embarrassment to defence community around the world as it does not make any sense.
> Spyder missile defence system is one of the most advance in the world and is more then capable enough to identify friend or foe and also differentiate slow moving flying object from fast fighter jets. Its was a thing of the past where military would rely on ground observers to identify aircraft type but now modern defence systems have taken over that role and I can tell you for a fact that Spyder system is more then capable of alerting ground crew of aircraft type! Also as Indian military claims that the chopper was returning back from normal flying routine I am pretty sure its a SOP to identify yourself when you are within certain distance of military air base.
> And I am also sure India has one of the latest Command and Control system where such mistakes can only occur by rogue state fire at anything they see without any coordination. Where as in Pakistan before anything is fired it gets cleared by higher ups through proper chain of command thats why during OBL raid no body fired from ground and same with recently incident where Indian air line in Pakistan air space.
> 
> *2.* PAF intrusion of Indian air space (Multiple Indian occupied kashmiris including sardar g described PAF intrusion in Indian air space when they dropped armament and went away).
> 
> By Pakistan denying the two things above it is helping Indian government from avoiding public humiliation and escalation.
> Its like two opponents fight on the street one guy (pakistan) beats the sh1t out of the other guy (india) but they both agree to keep it between themselves because the guy (Pakistan) can avoid being arrested by police and the other guy (India) can save his image among his friend who claims to be a big gansta and play it off that he yet again fought 10 guys alone and beat all of them up.



I had requested you in my post not to do this :  " now will you have some childish explanations as to why you know more than your DG ISPR ?"
And you did exactly that ! You wasted 30 mins of your time typing rot.
So as per you : DG ISPR should not be believed.

Ok, we won't. 

One more thing, please learn a bit more about the AMRAAM missiles that are saving the PAF from trouble currently. You clearly know very very very little. Your following posts show as much.
Oh wait, you can't use Google


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## GumNaam

Telescopic Sight said:


> I had requested you in my post not to do this :  " now will you have some childish explanations as to why you know more than your DG ISPR ?"
> And you did exactly that ! You wasted 30 mins of your time typing rot.
> So as per you : DG ISPR should not be believed.
> 
> Ok, we won't.
> 
> One more thing, please learn a bit more about the AMRAAM missiles that are saving the PAF from trouble currently. You clearly know very very very little. Your following posts show as much.
> Oh wait, you can't use Google


how long are you gonna struggle dude... starting to feel sorry for your bhangi arse trying so hard to give india some face saving & yet, miserably failing at it!

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## Suriya

Myth_buster_1 said:


> and if defeat had a face it would be these clowns.
> LOL they all look mad because PAF shot down IAF Su-30 and defeated because they lost SU-30 (asian raptor)lol


* This is the define proof of lost SU-30 as AMRAAM debris found in India.

*



Myth_buster_1 said:


> I just noticed that uniform matches with Israeli forces uniform. or am i wrong?


*And This is the definite proof of Israeli pilots flying it. See nothing changed in one year.*

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> * This is the define proof of lost SU-30 as AMRAAM debris found in India.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *And This is the definite proof of Israeli pilots flying it. See nothing changed in one year.*



 
You are so desperate that you had to go through thousands of my posts to find this one. Good, at least someone is fallowing me

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## Raj-Hindustani

Suriya said:


> * This is the define proof of lost SU-30 as AMRAAM debris found in India.
> And This is the definite proof of Israeli pilots flying it. See nothing changed in one year.*



Leave them!

They will always trust and believe on ISPR statements and does not matter, its true or false claim.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> * This is the define proof of lost SU-30 as AMRAAM debris found in India.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *And This is the definite proof of Israeli pilots flying it. See nothing changed in one year.*


are you trolling, you're living in your fairy tales,fantasy world kid, This AMRAAM was to be prove fake (Taiwani AMRAAM) serial number tell us, and as for Israeli Pilots this is rumors by our media nothing proof that's Israeli pilots flying Indian jets


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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> I had requested you in my post not to do this :  " now will you have some childish explanations as to why you know more than your DG ISPR ?"
> And you did exactly that ! You wasted 30 mins of your time typing rot.
> So as per you : DG ISPR should not be believed.
> 
> Ok, we won't.
> 
> One more thing, please learn a bit more about the AMRAAM missiles that are saving the PAF from trouble currently. You clearly know very very very little. Your following posts show as much.
> Oh wait, you can't use Google



DOOOOONT DO IT DOOOOONT DO IT IM TELLING YOU DOOOOONT DO IT
I am glad you have learned a history lesson. 
That PAF shot down Mi-17 and Pakistan is not claiming the kill to avoid escalation and to help India save its face from public embarrassment. 
oh I forgot you are the same guy who claims to have classified information that you declassify on PDF 
From the doodle of your DP one can determine your IQ level .
seriously how did you even come up with that? Like I said, its just Indian imagination 



Raj-Hindustani said:


> Leave them!
> 
> They will always trust and believe on ISPR statements and does not matter, its true or false claim.



DOOOOOONT CRYYYYYYY

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## Suriya

Myth_buster_1 said:


> DOOOOONT DO IT DOOOOONT DO IT IM TELLING YOU DOOOOONT DO IT
> I am glad you have learned a history lesson.
> That PAF shot down Mi-17 and Pakistan is not claiming the kill to avoid escalation and to help India save its face from public embarrassment.


@seven0seven see another Israeli pilot moment.
It's not difficult to conjure of such wild stories.

Desperate people in awe of a foe 10 times bigger since ever and lot more helpless since August 5, have to live in make believe world. While Indian forces are calm as cucumber and only waiting for the next signal from Modi to cross LoC again.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> @seven0seven see another Israeli pilot moment.
> It's not difficult to conjure of such wild stories.
> 
> Desperate people in awe of a foe 10 times bigger since ever and lot more helpless since August 5, have to live in make believe world. While Indian forces are calm as cucumber and only waiting for the next signal from Modi to cross LoC again.


And we are ready to embarrass you again, and what you achieves in 26/2/2019/ please tell me that

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> @seven0seven see another Israeli pilot moment.
> It's not difficult to conjure of such wild stories.
> 
> Desperate people in awe of a foe 10 times bigger since ever and lot more helpless since August 5, have to live in make believe world. While Indian forces are calm as cucumber and only waiting for the next signal from Modi to cross LoC again.



IAF FANBOYS: MODI G MODI G Pakistanis hamari G**D mar rahai hai 27th feb kay baad kuch karia naaaaa 
MODI G: 
Pakistanis:


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## Raj-Hindustani

Its a very fun to see comments on this thread... Full of entertainment...

It always remind me 2017 championship trophy... People will enjoy many years and does not matter even they loose in world cup tournaments..

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## SIPRA

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Leave them!
> 
> They will always trust and believe on ISPR statements and does not matter, its true or false claim.



And you would be trusting and believing that thug and criminal *Cheewala*, in the meanwhile.

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## newb3e

indians dont tire it seems!!

2 jahaz gira diye,pilot zaleel karwa dia! lakin mou keh fire khatam he nai ho rahay!!

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## Myth_buster_1

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Its a very fun to see comments on this thread... Full of entertainment...
> 
> It always remind me 2017 championship trophy... People will enjoy many years and does not matter even they loose in world cup tournaments..



At the end of the day India has lost more matches to Pakistan

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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Its a very fun to see comments on this thread... Full of entertainment...
> 
> It always remind me 2017 championship trophy... People will enjoy many years and does not matter even they loose in world cup tournaments..


This is not a cricket match but battle/war

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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> This is not a cricket match but battle/war



I don't see, Man!

Anything to be proud on a very small incident. Past 70 years, India had loose territory to only against China in 1962.

Apart of this lost, Indian army has only achieved but not loose anything. 

That's all only matters at the end! 

Its a fun reading to see the comments for a very small incident.


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## Suriya

*A very Good read for those who are interested in knowing how Su-30s dodged AMRAAMs fired at them.*



gambit said:


> The idea of a 'valid' kill is essentially an assumption based upon some reasoning and evidences. A 'confirmed' kill is when there are eyewitnesses of the event, something that often occurred back in WW II when air combat were always within visual range. A 'valid' kill is when we declared that based upon A, B, and C, there is a greater than %X probability that the target did not survive. A 'valid' kill can be updated to 'confirmed' if later there are forensic proof that the target did not survive. These proofs can be something like debris or ops logs that said the pilot did not return.
> 
> 
> Chaff can mislead a missile, even an AMRAAM or any claimed to be 'the best' missile out there. There are several related issues here.
> 
> When a missile is classified as 'fire and forget', it does not mean launch and leave. On the whole, we, meaning the entire military aviation community, did not have a good record of such a missile, even when we did designed and deployed such a missile. The 54 Phoenix was not only 'fire and forget' but actually 'launch and leave'. The Phoenix was not an 'integrated' weapon system precisely because of the 'launch and leave' design. Once launched, the pilot is free to leave the missile to its own devices. The missile carried its own active radar, discriminate its own target, select for home, and boresight on a target. The Phoenix's concept made the missile large, heavy, and time consuming for maintenance, especially for the electronics, which was not upgradable and
> rapidly getting older as miniaturization progresses. So when the F-14 retired, the Phoenix system had to be retired as well.
> 
> So where does the phrase 'fire and forget' comes in?
> 
> Experience showed us that the longer the ranges the greater the odds of a failure to kill. The longer ranges requires the missile to have as much data as possible in order to do what the Phoenix was designed to do: active radar, discrimination, selection, home, and boresight. The more radar activities, the greater the odds of the target being aware of the missile threat, especially when the radar operation changes to boresight mode which produces intense and unique signal characteristics, which the target would confirm to itself that there is a missile threat. But if we reduce the range on when to launch the missile, we risks getting involved into a turning fight which despite the romanticism of WW II, no pilot want to get into such a fight in the first place.
> 
> The compromise is the somewhat arbitrary designation of 'mid range' which for the AIM-120 started from 50 km and now to 150 km which approaches the 190 km of the Phoenix. So much for 'mid range'.
> 
> To increase the odds of a kill, or given the range involved, at least a 'valid' kill, we have to sort of 'silence' the missile's own radar operations to the last possible moments. To do this, the AMRAAM's radar does not 'go active' until certain algorithmic solutions are satisfied, and these are secrets. Suffice to say for public discussion, that 'go active' point is generally the mid point between the launch location and the target's location.
> 
> For example, if the distance between launch and target is 100 km, the AMRAAM's radar will go active when it crosses the 40-50 km point. Less if the launch aircraft decides to continuously guide the missile instead of the missile using its own radar.
> 
> When the AMRAAM's radar is active is when the missile becomes a 'fire and forget' weapon because it is calculated that the target do not have sufficient time and distance to formulate any countermeasure, even if his radar warning receiver (RWR) alerted him to the missile threat.
> 
> This goes back to the statement that declared chaff cannot mislead the AMRAAM. Chaff can mislead the AMRAAM depends on when the missile was launched, when the parent aircraft severs its guidance, and when the AMRAAM's radar go active. The longer this distance, the greater the odds of success for chaff. If a pilot launched an AMRAAM at max or near max operational range and immediately abandons it, chaff *WILL* mislead this AMRAAM.
> 
> This is why modern air combat is no less mentally challenging than when pilots fought with guns at several hundred meters apart. The pilot must know his aircraft and weapons limits in order to create as ideal as possible the environment for the missile to succeed.
> 
> 
> The AMRAAM have a proximity fusing system that detonates the warhead without the missile impacting the target. Proximity fusing increases the odds of a kill.





gambit said:


> Most missiles have a self destruct operation when after a certain amount of time that the missile failed to acquire or reacquire the target. Whatever happened to the debris is a different issue.


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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> I don't see, Man!
> 
> Anything to be proud on a very small incident. Past 70 years, India had loose territory to only against China in 1962.
> 
> Apart of this lost, Indian army has only achieved but not loose anything.
> 
> That's all only matters at the end!
> 
> Its a fun reading to see the comments for a very small incident.


Kill is kill, and why you jumping around about fake killing of your so Called 300 terrorist in balakot if it very small incident and claiming of fake shoot down of our F-16

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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> Kill is kill, and why you jumping around about fake killing of your so Called 300 terrorist in balakot if it very small incident and claiming of fake shoot down of our F-16



All governments make claims around the world.

It does not matter that actually, it's true or false. But, their people believed on the claims.

Same goes to Indian claim for shoot down a f16 and pak claim to shoot down a Su30mki.


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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> All governments make claims around the world.
> 
> It does not matter that actually, it's true or false. But, their people believed on the claims.
> 
> Same goes to Indian claim for shoot down a f16 and pak claim to shoot down a Su30mki.


I am asking you that why are you jumping around if 26/27 was a very small incident??? take these arguments/advises of yours for your countrymen who is jumping around for killing and shoot down on 26/27

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## TheTallGuy

Our Indian friends are forgetting that AIM120C5 has home on jam mode as well.

what i cant understand is that our benevolent Indian posters cant find details of there own operations...zero...so they come along here and start asking questions or just for sake of it "troll". they cant tell you the Orbat in Engagement of 27th Feb. how many planes involved from which squadron. what happened afterwards.. did IAF send reinforcement in area of operation how many aircraft from where...None whatsoever...we have actually provided more info to them then they have gotten from there own air force or resources.

if they are asking question ...why cant they ask there own air force who was flying what ...they have no information...they are blind & deaf...they came here gains info go back discuss and find flaws in narrative and come back ask more info..

i feel pitty for them...

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## Raj-Hindustani

TheTallGuy said:


> Our Indian friends are forgetting that AIM120C5 has home on jam mode as well.
> 
> what i cant understand is that our benevolent Indian posters cant find details of there own operations...zero...so they come along here and start asking questions or just for sake of it "troll". they cant tell you the Orbat in Engagement of 27th Feb. how many planes involved from which squadron. what happened afterwards.. did IAF send reinforcement in area of operation how many aircraft from where...None whatsoever...we have actually provided more info to them then they have gotten from there own air force or resources.
> 
> if they are asking question ...why cant they ask there own air force who was flying what ...they have no information...they are blind & deaf...they came here gains info go back discuss and find flaws in narrative and come back ask more info..
> 
> i feel pitty for them...



You, actually have no clue...



seven0seven said:


> I am asking you that why are you jumping around if 26/27 was a very small incident??? take these arguments/advises of yours for your countrymen who is jumping around for killing and shoot down on 26/27



I m not jumping but sometimes I feel bad that if people shows too much happiness on a fake claim. Otherwise, I don't brother actually... For us, its a very small incident and don't care... We lost a mig 21 but bigger lost was mi 17 helicopter with crew members (incidentally shoot down by IAF)


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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> I m not jumping but sometimes I feel that if shows too much happiness on a fake claims


I not talking about but you whole country, what fakes claims we have now tell me, MKI shoot down, so you have F-16 claims, in other threads there is multiple clips From Youtube that something crashed in IOK (Near the LOC) by your media and on 27 FEB one news channel admit MKI was shot down

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## TheTallGuy

Raj-Hindustani said:


> You, actually have no clue...



Correct! i dont but do you? you are here to "troll" thats it..you here here to gather info...you do not have any idea...Zero!

because if you had...your post would have been knowledgeable...but what i see/read is "wastage of bandwidth"

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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> I not talking about but you whole country, what fakes claims we have now tell me, MKI shoot down, so you have F-16 claims, in other threads there is multiple clips From Youtube that something crashed in IOK (Near the LOC) by your media and on 27 FEB one news channel admit MKI was shot down



Again you are free to make claims.

Let me know if the world will believe on your claim. As of now, the world only accepted for one plane down (mig 21).

I can provide too many sources as proof of many statement.

International media reported about claims of both countries but finally acknowledged on only 1 fighter down.

Rest, Indian and Pakistani governments are free to make claims and people can thrust on those claims (respective country).


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## TheTallGuy

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Again you are free to make claims.
> 
> Let me know if the world will believe on your claim. As of now, the world only accepted for one plane down (mig 21).
> 
> I can provide too many sources as proof of many statement.
> 
> International media reported about claims of both countries but finally acknowledged on only 1 fighter down.
> 
> Rest, Indian and Pakistani governments are free to make claims and people can thrust on those claims (respective country).



Excellent example of "wastage of bandwidth" and argument for sake of argument!


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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Again you are free to make claims.
> 
> Let me know if the world will believe on your claim. As of now, the world only accepted for one plane down (mig 21).
> 
> I can provide too many sources as proof of many statement.
> 
> International media reported about claims of both countries but finally acknowledged on only 1 fighter down.
> 
> Rest, Indian and Pakistani governments are free to make claims and people can thrust on those claims (respective country).


you're troll, nothing else i am talking about your peoples, and thanks for confirmation i already knows it, MKI shoot down is in the fog of war


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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> you're troll, nothing else i am talking about your peoples, and thanks for confirmation i already knows it, MKI shoot down is in the fog of war



Believe me, no Indians want to jump on this thread because it does not say actual story.

Also, claims are not real.. But, when everyday see people jumping around here on a fake claim then unable to control..

Even I don't want to discuss on this thread but human nature. Can't control sometimes..


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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Believe me, no Indians want to jump on this thread because it does not say actual story.
> 
> Also, claims are not real.. But, when everyday we see jumping people here on a fake claim then unable to control..
> 
> Even I don't want to discuss on this thread but human nature. Can't control sometimes..


Oh bhai all indian want to jump in this thread to prove their weird conspiracy theories of shooting down our F-16


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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> Oh bhai all indian want to jump in this thread to prove their weird conspiracy theories of shooting down our F-16



As I said, Pakistani people trust on Pakistan government and their claims.

The same goes to Indians....

Even if I go and talk to a common people in India then he will surely repeat all claims of the Indian government and I will have tough time to do argument with him. And, it same goes to Pakistan as well.

But, I don't find that most of indian members claim to shoot down a f16 in PDF.


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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> As I said, Pakistani people trust on Pakistan government and their claims.
> 
> The same goes to Indians....
> 
> Even if I go and talk to a common people in India then he will surely repeat the same Indian government claims and I will have tough time to do argument with him.
> 
> But, I do see that most of indian members also do not claim to shoot down a f16 in PDF.


OH what lie you have most Indian PDF members claims that we had shoot down F-16 can i list Indian members here who claims that


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## Avicenna

Raj-Hindustani said:


> As I said, Pakistani people trust on Pakistan government and their claims.
> 
> The same goes to Indians....
> 
> Even if I go and talk to a common people in India then he will surely repeat all claims of the Indian government and I will have tough time to do argument with him. And, it same goes to Pakistan as well.
> 
> But, I don't find that most of indian members claim to shoot down a f16 in PDF.








You guys lost all credibility with the hysterics post incident.

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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> OH what lie you have most Indian PDF members claims that we had shoot down F-16 can i list Indian members here who claims that



Man,
Why are you not getting my simple point.
When that incident happened then claims made by both countries.

So, people will definitely will trust on own government, it does not matter you are Indian or Pakistani.

So, Indians were supported to claims of own government and Pakistani were their government.

But the truth come later because it does take time. So, now we know that shooting of su30mki and f16 was false claims which made by both countries. (However, both governments will not accept)

Even it acknowledged by international sources.


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## SIPRA

Avicenna said:


> You guys lost all credibility with the hysterics post incident.



Their government, forces and particularly media, which obviously was being fed by the government sources, have virtually broken all records of telling lies, through their teeth. They told blatant lies even where they knew very well that these misstatements cannot be maintained, for even a day.

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## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Man,
> Why are you not getting my simple point.
> When that incident happened then claims made by both countries.
> 
> So, people will definitely will trust on own government, it does not matter you are Indian or Pakistani.
> 
> So, Indians were supported own government claims and Pakistani were their government.
> 
> But the truth come later because it does take time. So, now we know that shooting of su30mki and f16 was false claims which made by both countries. (However, both governments will not accept)
> 
> Even it acknowledged by international sources.


man you're ridiculous, why you give us the favor and leave the PDF for us, and you're claiming first in this thread that only Pakistani jumping around and claiming fake kill of MKI and you're (Indians) are not from your above post


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## Avicenna

SIPRA said:


> Their government, forces and particularly media, which obviously was being fed by the government sources, have virtually broken all records of telling lies, through their teeth. They told blatant lies even where they knew very well that these misstatements cannot be maintained, for even a day.



Yes I was actually shocked at the extent of it.

It was like FOX news on steroids.

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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> man you're ridiculous, why you give us the favor and leave the PDF for us, and you're claiming first in this thread that only Pakistani jumping around and claiming fake kill of MKI and you're (Indians) are not from your above post



WTH...
It does mean that both sides of coin is mine and does not matter which one comes.

If I said that Indian are not jumping then you will come with arguments. If I m saying actual things, what happens usually then you have other issue.
.....
Actually you are right! At least I can add this thread in my ignore list.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> WTH...
> It does mean that both sides of coin is mine and does not matter which one comes.
> 
> If I said that Indian are not jumping then you will come with arguments. If I m saying actual things, what happens usually then you have other issue.
> .....
> Actually you are right! At least I can add this thread in my ignore list.


Yeah yeah go on, you're saying is THE ACTUAL THINGS, and i am not talking about you but a whole INDIAN PDF MEMBERS HERE @Raj-Hindustani


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## SIPRA

Avicenna said:


> Yes I was actually shocked at the extent of it.



I was not, to be true.
We know them in and out. Lies and deception are essential part and parcel of the Hindutva culture and civilization.

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## Trailer23

Telescopic Sight said:


> 1. You seem to NOT understand what I have posted. I literally asked you not to come for help from me in a basic Google search. And now you do EXACTLY THAT.


When & Where did you 'literally' ask me not to come for help from you in a basic Google search?
Below is a Screenshot of your last post.







Now, if no such images exist, can mean only 02 Things.

1. There is no evidence to suggest such an act ever took place.
2. You just fabricated something on your own to derail the Thread.

And since you clearly never asked me not come to you for help, well...we all know where this conversation is heading.


Telescopic Sight said:


> If you are incapable of understanding this, either you dont read English well , or you choose not to. And please do not derail this thread further.


Yes, in case you hadn't noticed - I do not have the flag on my avatar to indicate that I belong to or reside in an English speaking nation.

You clearly appear to be extremely proud of the Stars & Stripes, yet show a great deal of affection towards India.

Speaking of which, here is some info on your boys in Stars & Stripes... Feel free to scroll down all the way to the bottom. I'm sure your advanced English skill will enable you to understand 'MOTIVES' and its subsection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead



Telescopic Sight said:


> 3. Wonderful explanation for the Israeli thing. ' Only a Muslim would understand '. Sorry, no Muslim that I know in India ( in my 3 decades growing up ) or in the US will consider stealing clothes from a dead man and displaying in homes and museums an act of a civilized man / force .


Here in the link below speaks of YOUR Stars & Stripes and what they allow.

Permitted war souvenirs are “common enemy military items that have little or no value” and have to be acquired legally, such as by capturing them or finding them abandoned, Warren said in an e-mail last week to Stripes.

He said permitted items include:


*Helmets and other head coverings.*
*Uniforms and patches.*
Canteens, compasses, rucksacks and pouches.
*Flags.*
Knives and bayonets — as long as they are not collapsing or spring-loaded retractable blades and the servicemember has a receipt.
Military training manuals.
Posters and placards.
Currency of the former Saddam Hussein regime.
Prayer rugs and furniture purchased from an Army and Air Force Exchange Service vendor.
https://www.stripes.com/news/u-s-troops-war-souvenirs-are-strictly-regulated-1.47550

So much for your 'displaying in homes and museums an act of a civilized man / force' statement.



Telescopic Sight said:


> 2. Glad you remember Nachiketa . That's another case where his uniform was stolen , when he was in Pak Army custody for a week. What this fetish for stolen uniforms , I don't know. I must point out that this nonsense seems to be a P.A. thing. Not a PAF thing.


The answer to this already mentioned above, though how can you label something stolen when it is in the custody of Military.

Maybe the traditions of the Pakistan Army are different to those of the PAF. Is there a rule book that all the Military are supposed to follow? Maybe the Pakistan Army tradition is to take it out in the back & burn it...

--------------------​
Now that you've been given a befitting response/ reply to every thing you swung at me..., care to go for Round 2?!!

@Myth_buster_1 @seven0seven @newb3e

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## Pakistani Fighter

seven0seven said:


>


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## notorious_eagle

Raj-Hindustani said:


> As I said, Pakistani people trust on Pakistan government and their claims.
> 
> The same goes to Indians....
> 
> Even if I go and talk to a common people in India then he will surely repeat all claims of the Indian government and I will have tough time to do argument with him. And, it same goes to Pakistan as well.
> 
> But, I don't find that most of indian members claim to shoot down a f16 in PDF.



Sorry, but on this forum we don't believe Pakistani Government or anyone. This is a Pro-Research Forum, we believe in facts and logic. We take an issue and analyze it from every angle. Just blindly accepting whatever your Government tells you makes you no different then a walking zombie. Blindly accepting every claim of your Government makes you no different then Nazi Germany, Soviet Union or North Korea.

@seven0seven Why are you even bothering? The guy already said above in his post that he will believe whatever his Government tells him. If the Government tells him the grass is pink, he will believe it. Why bother arguing with someone like that.


----------



## newb3e

Trailer23 said:


> Now that you've been given a befitting response/ reply to every thing you swung at me..., care to go for Round 2?!!


youll tire they wont they are relentless whatsapp university will keep feeding them fictional facts stright out of spreme leaders behind!! 

to save tbeir ugly bakht faces they will keep arguing!

here is a tip "you never argue with a baboon ( no racist :p)


----------



## Raj-Hindustani

notorious_eagle said:


> Sorry, but on this forum we don't believe Pakistani Government or anyone. This is a Pro-Research Forum, we believe in facts and logic. We take an issue and analyze it from every angle. Just blindly accepting whatever your Government tells you makes you no different then a walking zombie. Blindly accepting every claim of your Government makes you no different then Nazi Germany, Soviet Union or North Korea.
> 
> @seven0seven Why are you even bothering? The guy already said above in his post that he will believe whatever his Government tells him. If the Government tells him the grass is pink, he will believe it. Why bother arguing with someone like that.



No sir, you misunderstood me!

I said that I don't blindly trust on any government including Indian.

So I m not agreed with claim of Indian government to shoot down a f16 and also not agreed with Pakistani government to shoot down a su 30mki.

Both countries does not have proper evidence to prove their claims.


----------



## Aliph Ahmed

Suriya said:


> THis person still believes it was a Jf17 block 2 shot down the mighty indian SU30 MKI. There are lot more people like him. There was so much propaganda around 27th feb, when Pakistan made few correction nobody paid attention to them.



Yes. It is true.

A PAF JF17 Block 2 shot down an Indian SU 30 Mki o February 27, 2019.

The indian wingman ran like a coward on full after burners.

There are tons of delusional Indian kids like you on internet who believes every FANTASY CLAIM Indian Terrorist Forces make without any proof. Every professional force in the world provide proof when making a claim. India is the only one where you believe us or you are a traitor. tsk tsk tsk. 

Poori duniya hansti hay ab bharti daawoo par. Phir bhi besharam $1 walay coke kay can may nahi doobtay sharam say yeh bharti


----------



## Suriya

Aliph Ahmed said:


> Yes. It is true.
> 
> A PAF JF17 Block 2 shot down an Indian SU 30 Mki o February 27, 2019. The indian wingman ran like a coward on full after burners.
> 
> There are tons of delusional Indian kids like you on internet who believes every FANTASY CLAIM Indian Terrorist Forces make without any proof.


Before going bat shit crazy on me, you should have known what is your air force saying about it.

This is commemorative site built at PAF base Mushaf to celebrate 27th Feb and read carefully what it says about who shot down Indian Su30.


----------



## Aliph Ahmed

Suriya said:


> Before going bat shit crazy on me, you should have known what is your air force saying about it.
> 
> This is commemorative site built at PAF base Mushaf to celebrate 27th Feb and read carefully what it says about who shot down Indian Su30.



Nope. Your link does not open. Regardless,

A PAF JF17 Block 2 shot down an Indian SU 30 Mki on February 27, 2019.

The other SU30 Mki along with the pair of mirages exited the scene citing different SOB stories.

Expect a major Russia Pak defence agreement to be announced soon. In works since 2019. hint hint - SU 30 MKI. Putin does not forget favors.


----------



## Bratva

Telescopic Sight said:


> Forget the IAF, where are the photos of the PAF's bombing results ? Can you share some crater marks or anything from your side ? Or will you depend on photos released by the Indian army ? In other words, without Indian photos, PAF has NO proof.
> So pl reconsider this demand for proof.
> 
> Just ask yourself why it takes 45 days plus for 1 visit to the Balakot terror compound. And why no more visitors are allowed there .
> 
> 
> 
> So in other words, you have NO real reply. You just shared some language you overheard at home while growing up.
> Sorry for you.




*Indian Army commanders left Brigade HQ ‘minutes before’ PAF bomb fell in compound 27 Feb*


*https://theprint.in/defence/indian-...fore-paf-bomb-fell-in-compound-27-feb/241324/*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1172967743383113728


Here is the proof . If you had searched this thread you'd have had found it easily But since you are an Indian, you had a habit of shooting your mouth without any facts and figures

Where is the proof Balakot Madrassa was a terror compound? Just because India says so?

And Not everyone is a retard like you or those indians. You know There were HD satellite images that were released and you can still see them. Which shows not a single building got damaged or exploded. When you have those Pictures that too In HD. Why Pakistan should take anyone to Balakot Camp site in the early days of feb and March instead of at time of its own choosing when there are satellite images that is showing India strike failed ? Answer me this First.



Aliph Ahmed said:


> Nope. Your link does not open. Regardless,
> 
> A PAF JF17 Block 2 shot down an Indian SU 30 Mki on February 27, 2019.
> 
> The other SU30 Mki along with the pair of mirages exited the scene citing different SOB stories.
> 
> Expect a major Russia Pak defence agreement to be announced soon. In works since 2019. hint hint - SU 30 MKI. Putin does not forget favors.



It was F-16 who shot down Su-30. Which world you are living in mate?

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## Aliph Ahmed

Bratva said:


> It was F-16 who shot down Su-30. Which world you are living in mate?




I am waiting for Surya's reply first on the shot downed SU30 MKI

Good post. Fact remains, no matter what twist these indians give to the February 27, 2019 aerial war episode, PAF delivered decisive beating to Indian Air Force.


----------



## Trailer23

Aliph Ahmed said:


> I am waiting for Surya's reply first on the shot downed SU30 MKI


I don't care if you're waiting for him to blow rainbows out of his @ss.

You're embarrassing the Thread with made up scenarios of JF-17 shooting down anything other than being part of the package.

Just leave it...and move on.

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## Myth_buster_1

Trailer23 said:


> I don't care if you're waiting for him to blow rainbows out of his @ss.
> 
> You're embarrassing the Thread with made up scenarios of JF-17 shooting down anything other than being part of the package.
> 
> Just leave it...and move on.



JF-17 did shoot down Mi-17 

*https://www.news18.com/news/india/w...ot-strike-hinges-on-one-question-2134039.html*

*“There were around three aircraft flying at that time*,” says 36-year-old Fahmeeda, who was in the lawn of her house at the time of the crash.“Two jets were flying over the chopper. The Jets were very high and at a very fast speed,” she says.

Seeing the legion of fighter planes, she and the other villagers thought that a war between India and Pakistan has started.* “I was looking at the sky and could see the chopper and then suddenly there was something like a shooting star that struck the tail of the chopper,” *Fahmeeda recalls.


Their is also a video of a kashmiri describing the same thing but i cant find it. Maybe the indian channel took it down because it was against their narrative.


----------



## truthfollower

I remember seeing this video or this tweet and I thought OMG it is getting serious. But latter turned out it was fake video but who ever did it, did good job for propaganda. I think it was on the news.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100190433265754112


----------



## newb3e

this thread will be alive as long as indians indians are breathing even after 50 years they will present a new fact! indians are a waste of time!

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## Raj-Hindustani

newb3e said:


> this thread will be alive as long as indians indians are breathing even after 50 years they will present a new fact! indians are a waste of time!



Don't worry, we will have just the fun and even the world for claiming su 30Mki shoot down.


----------



## newb3e

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Don't worry, we will have just the fun and even the world for claiming su 30Mki shoot down.


i am sure you will you can always dig deep into modis g and come up with a new fact about su30 or 27th feb! 

crazy people!


----------



## Ultima Thule

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Don't worry, we will have just the fun and even the world for claiming su 30Mki shoot down.


Yes yes so why you're here, and same goes to your F-16 claims


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## Raj-Hindustani

seven0seven said:


> Yes yes so why you're here, and same goes to your F-16 claims



Yaar I told you, sometimes unable to control myself.. OK thank you.. Bye bye TC


----------



## aliyusuf

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Yaar I told you, sometimes unable to control myself.. OK thank you.. Bye bye TC


Good riddance!


----------



## Suriya

Myth_buster_1 said:


> its a f-cking wreckage! not a air show display! Do you expect all missiles to be perfectly displayed in front of the wreckage? The left wing missiles exploded upon impact thats why parts of them were scattered around the wreckage where as the right wing dislodged under the wing.
> Even the right wing R-77 is not fully visible because it was dislodged under the wreckage.







This is right after the crash of Mig 21.
You can see fumes are still coming out of it.

Right wing is relatively intact.
We don't see the R-73 seeker nearby as seen in another bigger video taken later on.

Right wing R-77 missile is half visible.

*But most fascinating thing at 0.37 second into the video, u only see broken missile carriage where right side R-73 is usually fixed and the missile itself is missing.




Video N0-2






5.50 min into the clip, locals say two India pilots were captures. One they caught, other one was caught by PA.


*
@airomerix @Trailer23 @Khanivore @notorious_eagle
@SIPRA @masterchief_mirza @Telescopic Sight
@ziaulislam @GumNaam @seven0seven @Raj-Hindustani @IAF Meteor missile

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## masterchief_mirza

Suriya said:


> This is right after the crash of Mig 21.
> You can see fumes are still coming out of it.
> 
> Right wing is relatively intact.
> We don't see the R-73 seeker nearby as seen in another bigger video taken later on.
> 
> Right wing R-77 missile is half visible.
> 
> *But most fascinating thing at 0.37 second into the video, u only see broken missile carriage where right side side R-73 is usually fixed and the missile itself is missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video N0-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5.50 min into the clip, locals say two India pilots were captures. One they caught, other one was caught by PA.
> 
> 
> *
> @airomerix @Trailer23 @Khanivore @notorious_eagle
> @SIPRA @masterchief_mirza @Telescopic Sight
> @ziaulislam @GumNaam @seven0seven @Raj-Hindustani @IAF Meteor missile


You're wasting your time tagging me on technical things. I'm just a basic paid troll.

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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> This is right after the crash of Mig 21.
> You can see fumes are still coming out of it.
> 
> Right wing is relatively intact.
> We don't see the R-73 seeker nearby as seen in another bigger video taken later on.
> 
> Right wing R-77 missile is half visible.
> 
> *But most fascinating thing at 0.37 second into the video, u only see broken missile carriage where right side side R-73 is usually fixed and the missile itself is missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video N0-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5.50 min into the clip, locals say two India pilots were captures. One they caught, other one was caught by PA.
> 
> 
> *
> @airomerix @Trailer23 @Khanivore @notorious_eagle
> @SIPRA @masterchief_mirza @Telescopic Sight
> @ziaulislam @GumNaam @seven0seven @Raj-Hindustani @IAF Meteor missile


What is even the point of debating it with you when a door knob has more IQ than your pea-sized brain?

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## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> What is even the point of debating it with you when a door knob has more IQ than your pea-sized brain?


That clip is self evident. You don't even need a door knob's IQ and u've to use ur eyes only.








*At 0.37 se*c, one can clearly see relatively intact *second missile pylon* where right side R-73 was attached.
But the 6ft R-73 missile is missing on the scene.
And also in a bigger clip, there is no sign of R-73 around the Mig21 debris. Tell me what does this suggest? @Myth_buster_1
@MastanKhan @Basel




Pictorial demo of right side second pylon carrying R-73 missile.






@Nilgiri @Joe Shearer @anathema @dbc @Tumba @Zapper @Gandhi G in da house @Jackdaws @jamahir @Turingsage


----------



## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Suriya said:


> This is right after the crash of Mig 21.
> You can see fumes are still coming out of it.
> 
> Right wing is relatively intact.
> We don't see the R-73 seeker nearby as seen in another bigger video taken later on.
> 
> Right wing R-77 missile is half visible.
> 
> *But most fascinating thing at 0.37 second into the video, u only see broken missile carriage where right side R-73 is usually fixed and the missile itself is missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video N0-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5.50 min into the clip, locals say two India pilots were captures. One they caught, other one was caught by PA.
> 
> 
> *
> @airomerix @Trailer23 @Khanivore @notorious_eagle
> @SIPRA @masterchief_mirza @Telescopic Sight
> @ziaulislam @GumNaam @seven0seven @Raj-Hindustani @IAF Meteor missile


Awesome find @Suriya



Myth_buster_1 said:


> JF-17 did shoot down Mi-17
> 
> *https://www.news18.com/news/india/w...ot-strike-hinges-on-one-question-2134039.html*
> 
> *“There were around three aircraft flying at that time*,” says 36-year-old Fahmeeda, who was in the lawn of her house at the time of the crash.“Two jets were flying over the chopper. The Jets were very high and at a very fast speed,” she says.
> 
> Seeing the legion of fighter planes, she and the other villagers thought that a war between India and Pakistan has started.* “I was looking at the sky and could see the chopper and then suddenly there was something like a shooting star that struck the tail of the chopper,” *Fahmeeda recalls.
> 
> 
> Their is also a video of a kashmiri describing the same thing but i cant find it. Maybe the indian channel took it down because it was against their narrative.


They saw the MiG-21s scrambled from Srinagar.
Mi-17 crashed sometime between 10:02 & 10:06 whereas 2 pairs of MiGs scrambled at 10:01 & 10:03.

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> That clip is self evident. You don't even need a door knob's IQ and u've to use ur eyes only.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *At 0.37 se*c, one can clearly see relatively intact *second missile pylon* where right side R-73 was attached.
> But the 6ft R-73 missile is missing on the scene.
> And also in a bigger clip, there is no sign of R-73 around the Mig21 debris. Tell me what does this suggest? @Myth_buster_1
> @MastanKhan @Basel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictorial demo of right side second pylon carrying R-73 missile.


AHH WHAT A PROVE YOU HAVE



IAF Meteor missile said:


> Awesome find @Suriya


AND THIS IS NOT A SOLID PROVE, DURING THE CRASH THIS MISSILE CERTAINTY DE-ATTACHED BECAUSE OF IMPACT/CRASH

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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> AHH WHAT A PROVE YOU HAVE





IAF Meteor missile said:


> Awesome find @Suriya


Thanks. The clip is of unaltered crime scene minutes after the Mig crashed on the ground with fumes coming out of it, so most unlikely time for any later on additions.

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Thanks. The clip is of unaltered crime scene minutes after the Mig crashed on the ground with fumes coming out of it, so most unlikely time for any later on additions.


AND THIS IS NOT A SOLID PROVE, DURING THE CRASH THIS MISSILE CERTAINTY DE-ATTACHED BECAUSE OF IMPACT/CRASH


----------



## Areesh

IAF Meteor missile said:


> Awesome find @Suriya



Chutya agrees with Surya

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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> AHH WHAT A PROVE YOU HAVE
> 
> 
> AND THIS IS NOT A SOLID PROVE, DURING THE CRASH THIS MISSILE CERTAINTY DE-ATTACHED BECAUSE OF IMPACT/CRASH


Unlikely. Right side got less damaging impact that could severe the missile from the pylon. As you can see R-77 which was broken into two piece still lying under the wing.


----------



## masterchief_mirza

seven0seven said:


> AHH WHAT A PROVE YOU HAVE
> 
> 
> AND THIS IS NOT A SOLID PROVE, DURING THE CRASH THIS MISSILE CERTAINTY DE-ATTACHED BECAUSE OF IMPACT/CRASH


You're wasting your breath on these idiots. They will say the missile can't possibly fall off or forcibly detach on impact. The missile must present itself immediately for inspection at a crash site.

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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> Chutya agrees with Surya


Eureka Eureka Eureka
@Mangus Ortus Novem It's time for some block letter small letter red black blue green fonts ka nanga nach. @El Sidd

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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> Thanks. The clip is of unaltered crime scene minutes after the Mig crashed on the ground with fumes coming out of it, so most unlikely time for any later on additions.


----------



## Areesh

Suriya said:


> That clip is self evident. You don't even need a door knob's IQ and u've to use ur eyes only.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *At 0.37 se*c, one can clearly see relatively intact *second missile pylon* where right side R-73 was attached.
> But the 6ft R-73 missile is missing on the scene.
> And also in a bigger clip, there is no sign of R-73 around the Mig21 debris. Tell me what does this suggest? @Myth_buster_1
> @MastanKhan @Basel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictorial demo of right side second pylon carrying R-73 missile.



OMG

After a year of 27 February humiliation Surya has come up with a new "proof" . After failing to achieve anything after a year Surya is now asking to find parts of disintegrated r 73 in some videos even though PAF has presented all 4 missiles open to world media

Nobody in the world has doubted the 4 missiles shown by paf 

Now the same @Suriya who is all Sherlock Holmes about r73 missiles even though paf has shown all 4 would go silent about Blackbox of the mi17 that was shot down by IAF itself and was stolen by villagers as per IAF and is missing till today

Why no questions about that black box @Suriya??

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Unlikely. Right side got less damaging impact that could severe the missile from the pylon. As you can see R-77 which was broken into two piece still lying under the wing.


WHAT A LOSER YOU'RE YOU ALWAYS BRING WEIRD CONSPIRACY THEORIES, R-77 WAS THERE BECAUSE LESS IMPACT ON THOSE SURFACES AS COMPARE TO WHERE YOU POINTED THE MISSING MISSILE ON LAUNCH RAILS ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT R-73 FELL OF ELSE WHERE BECAUSE OF PRESSURE OF IMPACT/CRASH



Suriya said:


> Eureka Eureka Eureka
> @Mangus Ortus Novem It's time for some block letter small letter red black blue green letters ka nanga nach. @El Sidd


YOU'RE THE TROLL AND NOTHING ELSE, YOU GUYS ALWAYS COMES WITH WEIRD CONSPIRACY THEORIES


----------



## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> WHAT A LOSER YOU'RE YOU ALWAYS BRING WEIRD CONSPIRACY THEORIES, R-77 WAS THERE BECAUSE LESS IMPACT ON THOSE SURFACES AS COMPARE TO WHERE YOU POINTED THE MISSING MISSILE ON LAUNCH RAILS ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT R-73 FELL OF ELSE WHERE BECAUSE OF PRESSURE OF IMPACT/CRASH


MOST LIKELY POSSIBILITY ...THAT PYLON WAS EMPTY WHEN IT IMPACTED ON THE GROUND AS R-73 ATTACHED TO IT HAD ALREADY BEEN LAUNCHED BEFORE THE MIG GOT SHOT DOWN.

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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Suriya said:


> Thanks. The clip is of unaltered crime scene minutes after the Mig crashed on the ground with fumes coming out of it, so most unlikely time for any later on additions.


Yes too little time for alterations.

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> MOST LIKELY POSSIBILITY ...THAT PYLON WAS EMPTY WHEN IT IMPACTED ON THE GROUND AS R-73 ATTACHED TO IT HAD ALREADY BEEN LAUNCHED BEFORE THE MIG GOT SHOT DOWN.


Ok you indiot if that your retard opinion than there other possibilities that it was de-attached because of impact and fell near to wreckage and also in Pakistan there always a Lockheed persons to secure f16s on Pakistani bases they counts f16s that no PAF f16 were missing


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> MOST LIKELY POSSIBILITY ...THAT PYLON WAS EMPTY WHEN IT IMPACTED ON THE GROUND AS R-73 ATTACHED TO IT HAD ALREADY BEEN LAUNCHED BEFORE THE MIG GOT SHOT DOWN.



Not possible since PAF showed all the four missiles

Bring some other possibility. Like the second was near the wreckage but not visible in the video which is far more probable than your probability

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## Ultima Thule

IAF Meteor missile said:


> Yes too little time for alterations.


What FOOL you guys are you're not crashed experts and Pentagon/Lockheed Martin confirmed no Pakistani f16 are missing

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## Areesh

IAF Meteor missile said:


> Yes too little time for alterations.



Alterations like villagers stealing mi17 Blackbox only to be never recovered again??

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## loanranger

Suriya said:


> MOST LIKELY POSSIBILITY ...THAT PYLON WAS EMPTY WHEN IT IMPACTED ON THE GROUND AS R-73 ATTACHED TO IT HAD ALREADY BEEN LAUNCHED BEFORE THE MIG GOT SHOT DOWN.


No you fool why is it most likely. Why isnt missile hitting the wing leading to missile detachment a more likely option?
Better yet why don't you get your pilot to do a interview on how he did the feat? 
Personally I believe he'll speak after retirement. Get ready for the embarrassment when he says I didn't do anything. 
You'd give your backside to have a missile missing. Let it go. You can try nailing us next time. Celebrate then. Just let this f16 thing go.

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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> Not possible since PAF showed all the four missiles
> 
> Bring some other possibility. Like the second was near the wreckage but not visible in the video which is far more probably than your probability


We are not interested in rest of the three missiles.
Abhinandan's last recorded voice was ' R-73 selected'.

you can see Pylon rail of right side R-73 is completely visible in the wreckage and damage it is least compared to other parts. When damage to pylon is this low what's chance of missile getting severed from it.

If you say, there R-73 parts must be lying around nearby the wreak, there is this a bigger video of the crash site below, here too there no sign of R-73 parts that were recovered by Pakistan and put on display for everyone to see. If you still see one, point it to me.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> We are not interested in rest of the three missiles.
> Abhinandan's last recorded voice was ' R-73 selected'.
> 
> you can see Pylon rail of right side R-73 is completely visible in the wreckage and damage it is least compared to other parts. When damage to pylon is this low what's chance of missile getting severed from it.
> 
> If you say, there R-73 parts must be lying around nearby the wreak, there is this a bigger video of the crash site below, here too there no sign of R-73 parts that were recovered by Pakistan and put on display for everyone to see. If you still see one, point it to me.


PENTAGON AND LOCKHEED MARTIN WERE CONFIRMED NO F-16 WAS MISSING AT 27/2/2019, CASE CLOSED, AND ITS TECHNOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOOT DOWN OUR F-16 BY YOUR MIG-21 WHETHER IT UPGRADED OR NOT IT HAS A DESIGN LIMITATIONS


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> We are not interested in rest of the three missiles.
> Abhinandan's last recorded voice was ' R-73 selected'.
> 
> you can see Pylon rail of right side R-73 is completely visible in the wreckage and damage it is least compared to other parts. When damage to pylon is this low what's chance of missile getting severed from it.
> 
> If you say, there R-73 parts must be lying around nearby the wreak, there is this a bigger video of the crash site below, here too there no sign of R-73 parts that were recovered by Pakistan and put on display for everyone to see. If you still see one, point it to me.


 
I have seen the video

Just because it isn't visible in this video doesn't mean it was never at the crash site. The man who made the video might have missed the smal parts of r73 wreckage that might be near the site. The missile might have broken up and its smaller parts might have scrambled at crash site later presented by paf. The man making this video might have missed those parts. Not a big deal

It is all guess work by you.

Now. Please tell us how come IAF is unable to recover that mi17 Blackbox even after a year?? When are you doing investigation for that missing Blackbox??


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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> PENTAGON AND LOCKHEED MARTIN WERE CONFIRMED NO F-16 WAS MISSING AT 27/2/2019, CASE CLOSED, AND ITS TECHNOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOOT DOWN OUR F-16 BY YOUR MIG-21 WHETHER IT UPGRADED OR NOT IT HAS A DESIGN LIMITATIONS


Yes, you see it mayn't prove that a PAF F-16 shot down. But does suggest R-73 was most likely launched by Abhi's Mig21.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Yes, you see it mayn't prove that a PAF F-16 shot down. But does suggest R-73 was most likely launched by Abhi's Mig21.


AND WOW WHAT A SOLID PROOFS YOU HAVE FOR LAUNCHING R-73 BY ABHI'S MIG-21


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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> I have seen the video
> 
> Just because it isn't visible in this video doesn't mean it was never at the crash site. The man who made the video might have missed the smal parts of r73 wreckage that might be near the site. The missile might have broken up and its smaller parts might



Right side R-73 that pakistan displayed to world was among the least damaged of the four supposed to be collected from the crash site.

Right side R-73 and R-77


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> Yes, you see it mayn't prove that a PAF F-16 shot down. But does suggest R-73 was most likely launched by Abhi's Mig21.



So in just one video you don't see one or two parts of broken r73 and you assumed that abhinandan launched the missile

Typical modi Bhakt intellect 



Suriya said:


> Right side R-73 that pakistan displayed to world was among the least damaged of the four supposed to be collected from the crash site.



I know 

Still it is broken and can scrambled all over the area 

PAF collected all the parts and presented it to world media to comprehensively refute your lies

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Right side R-73 that pakistan displayed to world was among the least damaged of the four supposed to be collected from the crash site.
> 
> Right side R-73 and R-77


SO YOU'RE THEIR TO SEE HOW YOUR MIG-21 IMPACTED AT THE CRASHED SITE???


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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> I know
> 
> Still it is broken and can scrambled all over the area
> 
> PAF collected all the parts and presented it to world media to comprehensively refute your lies


In crash site clips, Right side R-77 is clearly visible lying under the right wing while R-73 missing from crash site though it's damaged pylon is seen pressed under the wing.

In these conditions why do u think, six feet long R-73 would be scattered around one KM radius to be collected by Pakistani authorities in three broken parts ?


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> In crash site clips, Right side R-77 is clearly visible lying under the right wing while R-73 missing from crash site though it's damaged pylon is seen pressed under the wing.
> 
> In these conditions why do u think, six feet long R-73 would be scattered around one KM radius to be collected by Pakistani authorities in three broken parts ?


CAN YOU PROOF HOW YOUR MIG-21 IMPACTED AT THE CRASH SITE, THIS PROOF NOTHING, YOU'RE NOT A CRASHED EXPERT AND THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT R-73 FELL AWAY FEW TENS OF METERS FROM WRECKAGE BECAUSE OF IMPACT


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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> SO YOU'RE THEIR TO SEE HOW YOUR MIG-21 IMPACTED AT THE CRASHED SITE???


See the crash site video clip itself. Right wing of the jet was relatively less damaged compared to left wing which was completely burned. Only few pieces of left side missiles were found.

See parts of two left side missiles missing as they were burned out.


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> In crash site clips, Right side R-77 is clearly visible lying under the right wing while R-73 missing from crash site though it's damaged pylon is seen pressed under the wing.
> 
> In these conditions why do u think, six feet long R-73 would be scattered around one KM radius to be collected by Pakistani authorities in three broken parts ?



It is not missing. That is the point. It is missing only in this video since the man who made the video missed it. In other pictures or videos we can see both r73

So your guesswork is on a very weak base. In fact you have no point to make except a video that is negated by dozen other videos


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## Oruc

OMG. not this debate again. well you see on one side PAF is much more confident in countering MkIs and others with current fleet and on the other side you can see India running around like a headless chicken purchasing this and that. It gives quite a good picture of who lost what.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> See the crash site video clip itself. Right wing of the jet was relatively less damaged compared to left wing which was completely burned. Only few pieces of left side missiles were found.
> 
> See parts of two left side missiles missing as they were burned out.


THIS ALSO PROOF NOTHING MIGHT BE FUEL CELL IGNITED BECAUSE OF IMPACT


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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> THIS ALSO PROOF NOTHING MIGHT BE FUEL CELL IGNITED BECAUSE OF IMPACT


Yes, the left side caught fire and got completely burned while the right wing is intact , see the clip again. I'm repeating myself here. Right wing's R-77 missile visible under the wing while only pylon rail of R-73 missile is visible under the wing and not a whiff six feet long R-73 missile.


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## Mig hunter

Jackdaws said:


> Redrew the line showing that targets in Pakistan proper, not just Pak Kashmir were legitimate targets. This reversed the Indian policy of non response as witnessed during 26/11. Pak Army and ISI hiding behind "non state actors" wasn't kosher anymore as India was willing to escalate under the nuclear umbrella.
> 
> Pak had to respond and it did. They had a domestic audience to please too. They showed they will respond to Indian escalation.
> 
> That's fine. India would rather fight Pak forces than deal with the diplomatic and legal hassle of dealing with "non state actors" which had given the Pak Army and ISI plausible deniability.
> 
> India has not even bothered unleashing its most potent force - the Indian Navy whose capabilities are significantly more than those of the Pak Navy.
> 
> After Indian escalation, India abrogated Article 370 and Pakistan has been able to do nothing about it except complain in some international forums.


Yes and then again few days back ISI backed Mujahideen killed few mighty Indian NARCOS or black cats whatever you call them and as the ISI has taken a back due to mighty IAF strikes, super power India was forced to lock down some 8 Million Kashmiris.. So much of new norm set by super power of the east... And don't forget
*"Agar Rafael Hota To Nateeja Kuch aur Hota"
And then u sent a spice jet with military code.... Bloody loosers*

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Yes, the left side caught fire and got completely burned while the right wing is intact , see the clip again. I'm repeating myself here. Right wing's R-77 missile visible under the wing while only pylon rail of R-73 missile is visible under the wing and not a whiff six feet long R-73 missile.


THIS GUY FOCUSING A MAIN WRECKAGE NOT SURROUNDINGS ITS IS POSSIBILITY TO R-73 FELL OFF TENS OF METERS BECAUSE OF IMPACT


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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> THIS GUY FOCUSING A MAIN WRECKAGE NOT SURROUNDINGS ITS IS POSSIBILITY TO R-73 FELL OFF TENS OF METERS BECAUSE OF IMPACT


The reasoning is, right side of the wing isn't damaged enough as seen in the clip it's being intact, so it very unlikely the missile would get completely detached while it's bigger sister R-77 is still there attached to the same wing and seen lying pressed under it


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> The reasoning is, right side of the wing isn't damaged enough as seen in the clip it's being intact, *so it very unlikely the missile would get completely detached* while it's bigger sister R-77 is still there attached to the same wing and seen lying pressed under it



Bold part is pure guesswork

You bharatis have anything solid other thsn guesswork? Or poor performance of IAF has left you with nothing but guesswork?


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> The reasoning is, right side of the wing isn't damaged enough as seen in the clip it's being intact, so it very unlikely the missile would get completely detached while it's bigger sister R-77 is still there attached to the same wing and seen lying pressed under it


 OH BAHI THERE ARE OTHER PICTURES OF WRECKAGE THAT CLEARLY SHOWED R-73 IN THE AREA TENS OF METER OF MAIN WRECKAGE, AND AS FOR YOU OPINION ABOUT WHY NOT R-77 DE-ATTACHED FROM THE WING, IN MY PERSONAL OPINIONS ( I COULD BE WRONG) R-77 IS LARGER MISSILES AND FITTED NEAR TO WING TIP (OUT WING PYLONS) AMRRAM STRUCK IN THE INNER SIDE OF FUSELAGE OF YOUR MIG-21 HENCE DAMAGE THE PYLONS OF R-73 AND THEREFORE R-73 DE-ATTACHED FROM THE PYLONS AND LANDS FEW TENS OF METERS AWAY FROM THE WRECKAGE


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## newb3e

awesome find by indian @Suriya i i am sure this evidence was unearthed just few days back as indians reenacted the 27th feb dog fight and this time for the first time they actually managed to shoot down f16 but also found out that mig crashed and was not shot down!!

amazing people!! fkers got some next level iq are they even humans at times i feel like indians are humble and living among us apes and helping us by their superior intelligence! serving the humanity!

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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> OH BAHI THERE ARE OTHER PICTURES OF WRECKAGE THAT CLEARLY SHOWED R-73 IN THE AREA TENS OF METER OF MAIN WRECKAGE,


Show me those pictures if you have any.
Yes, i've seen two seekers of R-73 missiles, but picture of seeker head alone means nothing.
Pakistan show all parts of right side R-73 in display, if you've pictures of those parts lying near the crash site show it because I've seen a number of clips of the crash site and none them show R-73 parts expect the seeker head.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Show me those pictures if you have any.
> Yes, i've seen two seekers of R-73 missiles, but picture of seeker head alone means nothing.
> Pakistan show all parts of right side R-73 in display, if you've pictures of those parts lying near the crash site show it because I've seen a number of clips of the crash site and none them show R-73 parts expect the seeker head.


DO YOU READ MY WHOLE POST



Suriya said:


> expect the seeker head.


AND THAT THE PROOF THAT R-73 LANDED IN THE AREA (SEEKER HEAD WAS THERE) AND REST OF MISSILES WERE BURN BECAUSE OF IMPACT



Suriya said:


> Show me those pictures if you have any.
> Yes, i've seen two seekers of R-73 missiles, but picture of seeker head alone means nothing.
> Pakistan show all parts of right side R-73 in display, if you've pictures of those parts lying near the crash site show it because I've seen a number of clips of the crash site and none them show R-73 parts expect the seeker head.


HERE IT IS





AND DON'T TELL ME ITS THE OTHER R-73

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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> DO YOU READ MY WHOLE POST
> 
> 
> AND THAT THE PROOF THAT R-73 LANDED IN THE AREA (SEEKER HEAD WAS THERE) AND REST OF MISSILES WERE BURN BECAUSE OF IMPACT


No, see this picture, it's right side R-73 and R-77 Pakistan put on for display. All parts of R-73 found.







seven0seven said:


> HERE IT IS
> View attachment 625102
> 
> AND DON'T TELL ME ITS THE OTHER R-73


That's Left side R-73.


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## notorious_eagle

@seven0seven I commend you for your patience but why are you even bothering? 

Our Indian friends like @Suriya are desperate and will try to find any clutches and conspiracies to make themselves feel better. You need to understand the mindset, they were promised a total domination from the RSS similar to how the Israelis dominate. Do you remember the chatter among Indians here of how the MIG21 Bisons were enough to obliterate the PAF. But what they found on Feb 27 is that they are helpless infront of an aggressive PAF, this is why our friend @Suriya is desperately trying to make himself feel better. 

I would suggest @seven0seven , ignore the troll and save your sanity. Would you ever get in a discussion about quantum computing with a 50 year old illiterate retard? Please save your sanity and ignore the trolls who have no idea what they are talking about.

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> That's Left side R-73.


YEAH I KNEW THAT YOU ALWAYS TELL THAT


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## notorious_eagle

Suriya said:


> No, see this picture, it's right side R-73 and R-77 Pakistan put on for display. All parts of R-73 found.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's Left side R-73.



Yes, all of PAF's fleet was shot down by Abhi in his MIG21. Are you happy now? Go get some coffee and eat some biscuits. 

IAF is Number 1, better then USAF. 

Happy

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## Daghalodi

newb3e said:


> awesome find by indian @Suriya i i am sure this evidence was unearthed just few days back as indians reenacted the 27th feb dog fight and this time for the first time they actually managed to shoot down f16 but also found out that mig crashed and was not shot down!!
> 
> amazing people!! fkers got some next level iq are they even humans at times i feel like indians are humble and living among us apes and helping us by their superior intelligence! serving the humanity!



Pic of the Day

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## Suriya

notorious_eagle said:


> Yes, all of PAF's fleet was shot down by Abhi in his MIG21. Are you happy now? Go get some coffee and eat some biscuits.
> 
> IAF is Number 1, better then USAF.
> 
> Happy


Why are you getting hyper we can discuss logically and @seven0seven doesn't agree with me, so you too don't have to go crazy either.


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## Ultima Thule

notorious_eagle said:


> @seven0seven I commend you for your patience but why are you even bothering?
> 
> Our Indian friends like @Suriya are desperate and will try to find any clutches and conspiracies to make themselves feel better. You need to understand the mindset, they were promised a total domination from the RSS similar to how the Israelis dominate. Do you remember the chatter among Indians here of how the MIG21 Bisons were enough to obliterate the PAF. But what they found on Feb 27 is that they are helpless infront of an aggressive PAF, this is why our friend @Suriya is desperately trying to make himself feel better.
> 
> I would suggest @seven0seven , ignore the troll and save your sanity. Would you ever get in a discussion about quantum computing with a 50 year old illiterate retard? Please save your sanity and ignore the trolls who have no idea what they are talking about.


CAN YOU YOU HAVE A WHOLE ANNOTATED IMAGE OF CRASH SITE, WHERE ALL AAMS OF MIG-21 WERE VISIBLE ON IMAGE, I LOST THIS IMAGE SOMEHOW CAN SOMEBODY HELP ME???



Suriya said:


> Why are you getting hyper we can discuss logically and @seven0seven doesn't agree with me, so you too don't have to go crazy either.


because there were proofs that oppose your theory otherwise


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## Trailer23

@Suriya - You cease to amaze me. Truly.

If the PAF were to hold your hand, take you to the site where the missiles are preserved, show you everything you need to know including Serial Numbers & all.

You'd come back here, and start the same conversation all over again.

I'm not speaking of denial. I'm merely suggesting that its time - to let it go.

The problem with you and your fellow compatriots is that you just can't accept, or want to accept the fact that you got beat.

Just move on, and hope the next time there is an aerial encounter - you might finally get the best of the PAF.

Odds are pretty much against you, but hey...there is always hope.

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## Jackdaws

Mig hunter said:


> Yes and then again few days back ISI backed Mujahideen killed few mighty Indian NARCOS or black cats whatever you call them and as the ISI has taken a back due to mighty IAF strikes, super power India was forced to lock down some 8 Million Kashmiris.. So much of new norm set by super power of the east... And don't forget
> *"Agar Rafael Hota To Nateeja Kuch aur Hota"
> And then u sent a spice jet with military code.... Bloody loosers*



You do realize you are the ones who keep calling us a Super power. Why such an inferiority complex?


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## DrWatson775

seven0seven said:


> CAN YOU YOU HAVE A WHOLE ANNOTATED IMAGE OF CRASH SITE, WHERE ALL AAMS OF MIG-21 WERE VISIBLE ON IMAGE, I LOST THIS IMAGE SOMEHOW CAN SOMEBODY HELP ME???


These guys will keep coming back with new theories. You will explain it to one and a few days later several more will appear without going through the previous discussion.

Question ❔ they should answer is what they did in response to bombs landing in/ around their military garrisons; still sitting tight I guess.

Having said that IAF certainly has numerical superiority overall in terms of number of fighters as well as number of BVR fighters. It comes down to how many fighters they are willing to throw at PAF (which it seems has the longer stick aka AIM 120 at this time).

27th Feb was a skirmish and could have been an opening chapter to a war which thankfully did not happen. I believe IAF was defeated in detail on that day in that specific sector due to careful planning and execution. One should not think that every engagement in an all out war will be like that.

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## airomerix

Its no rocket science that when Mig fell at an angular level, one wing was destroyed and the other one has gone through a shock.

Hence the missiles on the burnt wing were completely burnt while the other two missiles absorbed the shock and broke down (fell) here and there. Usually, when an aircraft crashes, the investigation radius is more than 3 miles in either direction.

And this peanut head is crying out loud because the cameraman failed to cover the radius of 4 feet around the fuselage crash.

R73 is installed on station 1-5, when installed with R77 due to weight distribution factor. Hence, its very much possible that upon impact, the R73 would have broken away (hence the pieces)

Its simple physics. This suriya guy is just a hindutuva. Wasting our time to save face.

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## Trailer23

IAF Meteor missile said:


> Awesome find @Suriya


Yes, awesome find.

Perhaps...you, @Suriya and @Jackdaws outta take a drive to IAF's HQ and present your findings. I mean, if the IAF and a Million Military Commentators couldn't spot your find - well you'll be given the Highest Civilian Medal for busting the PAF's narrative.

Who knows, you just may end up on The Tonight Show.

Congratulations. You're Heros.

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## Pak-Canuck

Does not pass the "bakwaas test" lol, plain and simple.

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## Suriya

Trailer23 said:


> @Suriya - You cease to amaze me. Truly.
> 
> If the PAF were to hold your hand, take you to the site where the missiles are preserved, show you everything you need to know including Serial Numbers & all.
> 
> You'd come back here, and start the same conversation all over again.


If we were to believing PAF's words alone, then this thread wouldn't have reached 650 pages , over last year we've seen some stongly holded views change e.g use of F-16 and Pakistan saying it's F-16 shot down su30 while popular perception was Jf-17 did it.

I've made few simple points and that too based on what i see at the crash site and it's for everyone to check it out for themselves.

1. Right side wing is relatively undamaged.
2.Right side R-77 is visible under the wing.
3. Right side pylon used by R-73 is also seen and not much damaged.
4. But Right side R-73 is nowhere to be
seen near the slightly damaged pylon.
5. In a bigger video with 16 min survey of the crash site, part of R-73 are missing
6. The same R-73 which is put on display by Pakistai with all it parts found.
7. I say all it's parts because in other three missiles in display we see, have one or more major parts missing as they were said to be burned in crash fire.


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## Areesh

airomerix said:


> Its simple physics. This suriya guy is just a hindutuva. Wasting our time to save face.



True. We know that 

He is just another low IQ hundutva clown wasting our time with ifs and buts


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## Jackdaws

Trailer23 said:


> Yes, awesome find.
> 
> Perhaps...you, @Suriya and @Jackdaws outta take a drive to IAF's HQ and present your findings. I mean, if the IAF and a Million Military Commentators couldn't spot your find - well you'll be given the Highest Civilian Medal for busting the PAF's narrative.
> 
> Who knows, you just may end up on The Tonight Show.
> 
> Congratulations. You're Heros.



Social distancing. Lol. 

For the record, don't count me in any narrative that isn't conclusive. India's or Pakistan's.

Being an Indian, I would obviously like to believe that an F16 was shot down and being a Pakistani I am sure that you would like to believe that a second Indian fighter jet was. Neither has been conclusively proven.

Only fact we all know is that Abhinandan entered Pak airspace and was shot down. And that India shot down its own chopper - which I think is the the bigger problem. Abhinandan was doing his job. The idiots who shot down own chopper were not.


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## Thorough Pro

have you ever heard the term "satire" or "satirical" or "mock" or "mockingly"



Jackdaws said:


> You do realize you are the ones who keep calling us a Super power. Why such an inferiority complex?


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## Suriya

airomerix said:


> R73 is installed on station 1-5, when installed with R77 due to weight distribution factor. Hence, its very much possible that upon impact, the R73 would have broken away (hence the pieces)
> 
> Its simple physics. This suriya guy is just a hindutuva. Wasting our time to save face.


Dude, this is the R-73 missile Pakistan put of display saying it found all four missiles of Mig21. This R-73 is the least damaged missile among all four.


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## Safriz

Indian "Mahaan" Air Phorsewa is the only "Larakoo Bimaan" weho can shoot down enemy jet without firing any Missiles, and crashing will all missiles.

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Dude, this is the R-73 missile Pakistan put of display saying it found all four missiles of Mig21. This R-73 is the least damaged missile among all four.


So all 4 is there, what your point does mig21 carried more than 4 missiles are you blind your mental disease has no cure



Safriz said:


> Indian "Mahaan" Air Phorsewa is the only "Larakoo Bimaan" weho can shoot down enemy jet without firing any Missiles, and crashing will all missiles.


I think as per @Suriya there was other R-73 in abhi's cockpit than he was open his cockpit during the flight and fired that R-73 by hand at our f16 hence our f16 was being shot down by his mig 21 unfortunately


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## Haris Ali2140

airomerix said:


> Its no rocket science that when Mig fell at an angular level, one wing was destroyed and the other one has gone through a shock.
> 
> Hence the missiles on the burnt wing were completely burnt while the other two missiles absorbed the shock and broke down (fell) here and there. Usually, when an aircraft crashes, the investigation radius is more than 3 miles in either direction.
> 
> And this peanut head is crying out loud because the cameraman failed to cover the radius of 4 feet around the fuselage crash.
> 
> R73 is installed on station 1-5, when installed with R77 due to weight distribution factor. Hence, its very much possible that upon impact, the R73 would have broken away (hence the pieces)
> 
> Its simple physics. This suriya guy is just a hindutuva. Wasting our time to save face.


Indians expects that a 6 ton fighter shot by a missile will gently hug the ground and will land itself without its pilot and random civillians will record its wreckage, check whether missiles are fired or not.

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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> So all 4 is there, what your point does mig21 carried more than 4 missiles are you blind your mental disease has no cure


My point simple, in the relative undamaged condition of right side R-73 pylon and R-77 under the wing suggest, R-73 should have been found with pylon or at least some parts of R-73 attached to pylon.
Interestingly, R-73 parts except seeker head are not see anywhere near the crash site itself. Also an 'undamaged' R-73 put on display by Pakistan couldn't have been found scattered away from the crash site.


1. That means R-73 put on display by Pakistan didn't come from Abhi's Mig21.

2. It also mean Abhi's R-73 had already been fired before the Mig crashed.


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## ziaulislam

Suriya said:


> THis person still believes it was a Jf17 block 2 shot down the mighty indian SU30 MKI. There are lot more people like him. There was so much propaganda around 27th feb, when Pakistan made few correction nobody paid attention to them.


So what i ha e neighbour who believes the world is flat and is bigshot engnr..whats the relevance of one guy or half dozen ..what does it had to do with indian missing its targets, being outgunned by PAF, shooting down its own helicopter and being jammed, violated and blinded


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> My point simple, in the relative undamaged condition right side R-73 pylon and R-77 under the wing suggest, R-73 should have been found with pylon or at least some part of R-73 attached to pylon.
> Interestingly, R-73 parts except seeker head are not see any where near the crash site itself. Also undamaged R-73 on display by pakistan couldn't have found scattered away from the crash site.
> 
> 
> 1. That means R-73 put on display by Pakistan didn't come from Abhi's Mig21.
> 
> 2. It also mean Abhi's R-73 had already been fired before the Mig crashed.


Ok abhi fired R-73 now happy, and same goes to your fake AMRAAM debris which proved to be Taiwanese AMRAAM C5 by its serial number so what you stupid

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## ziaulislam

airomerix said:


> Its no rocket science that when Mig fell at an angular level, one wing was destroyed and the other one has gone through a shock.
> 
> Hence the missiles on the burnt wing were completely burnt while the other two missiles absorbed the shock and broke down (fell) here and there. Usually, when an aircraft crashes, the investigation radius is more than 3 miles in either direction.
> 
> And this peanut head is crying out loud because the cameraman failed to cover the radius of 4 feet around the fuselage crash.
> 
> R73 is installed on station 1-5, when installed with R77 due to weight distribution factor. Hence, its very much possible that upon impact, the R73 would have broken away (hence the pieces)
> 
> Its simple physics. This suriya guy is just a hindutuva. Wasting our time to save face.


The same guy was claiming abhi isnt an indian because of his mustache angle..untill you tube videos surfaces up..the guy was lucky that he was well known or india might have said he is pakistani pilot ..this isnt a "professonal" airforce anymore

This is how abhi shot the f16


https://imgur.com/82xm60o




Suriya said:


> My point simple, in the relative undamaged condition right side R-73 pylon and R-77 under the wing suggest, R-73 should have been found with pylon or at least some part of R-73 attached to pylon.
> Interestingly, R-73 parts except seeker head are not see any where near the crash site itself. Also undamaged R-73 on display by pakistan couldn't have found scattered away from the crash site.
> 
> 
> 1. That means R-73 put on display by Pakistan didn't come from Abhi's Mig21.
> 
> 2. It also mean Abhi's R-73 had already been fired before the Mig crashed.


Do you know how dumb you sound..
Just take the above explanation i gave its more resonable

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## Aliph Ahmed

ziaulislam said:


> So what i ha e neighbour who believes the world is flat and is bigshot engnr..whats the relevance of one guy or half dozen ..what does it had to do with indian missing its targets, being outgunned by PAF, shooting down its own helicopter and being jammed, violated and blinded



And you know the best part.

This Surya guy was giving me pakistan air force link to prove that it was F16 that shot down the Indian Su30 and not the jf17 block 2.

He would stoop so low to give a link from the very PAF that he has been so busy trying to discredit.

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> At Crash site, right side R-73 pylon tells a different story other than what Pakistan want us to believe. It's undamaged look and not a whiff of R-73 not just around it, but from the site itself makes the case far more curious.


Don't post this craps again and again this proves nothing
You already showed all 4 aams mig 21 presented by Pakistan so all aams found at wreck site and do believe what ever you want and don't quote me again this stupid conspiracy theory already debunk many times


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## Suriya

ziaulislam said:


> Do you know how dumb you sound..
> Just take the above explanation i gave its more resonable









At Crash site, right side R-73 pylon tells a different story other than what Pakistan want us to believe. It's undamaged look and not a whiff of R-73 not just around it, but from the site itself makes the case far more curious


----------



## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> At Crash site, right side R-73 pylon tells a different story other than what Pakistan want us to believe. It's undamaged look and not a whiff of R-73 not just around it, but from the site itself makes the case far more curious


@The Eagle @waz PLEASE BAN THIS. STUPID INDIAN GUY NAMED @Suriya AT LEAST FROM THIS THREAD THANK YOU


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## Daghalodi

Suriya said:


> My point simple, in the relative undamaged condition of right side R-73 pylon and R-77 under the wing suggest, R-73 should have been found with pylon or at least some parts of R-73 attached to pylon.
> Interestingly, R-73 parts except seeker head are not see anywhere near the crash site itself. Also an 'undamaged' R-73 put on display by Pakistan couldn't have been found scattered away from the crash site.
> 
> 
> 1. That means R-73 put on display by Pakistan didn't come from Abhi's Mig21.
> 
> 2. It also mean Abhi's R-73 had already been fired before the Mig crashed.



All those missiles from abhinandans plane are put on display proves abhinadan never fired a missle

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## Suriya

Daghalodi said:


> All those missiles from abhinandans plane are put on display proves abhinadan never fired a missle


But at the crash site there is no whiff of R-73 on right side pylon meant for carrying R-73. The pylon itself is relatively undamaged and so do the right wing. It looks difficult to accept R-73 debris is not found attached to the pylon or found near it.


----------



## Daghalodi

Suriya said:


> But at the crash site there is no whiff of R-73 on right side pylon meant for carrying R-73. The pylon itself is relatively undamaged and so do the right wing. It looks difficult to accept R-73 debris is not found attached to the pylon or found near it.



How do you know that? Have you been to the crash site?


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## Suriya

Daghalodi said:


> How do you know that? Have you been to the crash site?







See the video clip of the crash site few minute after the crash itself. Fumes still coming out.

And see the right side pylon meant from carrying R-73 and its intact. But you wont see a whiff of the six feet long R-73 missile though you find R-77 debris lying near it.


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## Ultima Thule

Daghalodi said:


> How do you know that? Have you been to the crash site?


Oh bhai @Suriya is only trolling and nothing else don't feed troll like @Suriya bro



Suriya said:


> But at the crash site there is no whiff of R-73 on right side pylon meant for carrying R-73. The pylon itself is relatively undamaged and so do the right wing. It looks difficult to accept R-73 debris is not found attached to the pylon or found near it.


Ok we displayed fake R-73 wreckage now happy so get lost from here

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## Daghalodi

Suriya said:


> See the video clip of the crash site few minute after the crash itself. Fumes still coming out.
> 
> And see the right side pylon meant from carrying R-73 and its intact. But you wont see a whiff of the six feet long R-73 missile though you find R-77 debris lying near it.



This just a video clip from a cellphone. It doesnt show the whole crash site. The video does not seem like mins after the crash because fumes are dying out. Alot of debris and stuff must have been kicked , collected or moved from its place. You cant just watch a clip from a cellphone and make assumptions.


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## GumNaam

Suriya said:


> This is right after the crash of Mig 21.
> You can see fumes are still coming out of it.
> 
> Right wing is relatively intact.
> We don't see the R-73 seeker nearby as seen in another bigger video taken later on.
> 
> Right wing R-77 missile is half visible.
> 
> *But most fascinating thing at 0.37 second into the video, u only see broken missile carriage where right side R-73 is usually fixed and the missile itself is missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video N0-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5.50 min into the clip, locals say two India pilots were captures. One they caught, other one was caught by PA.
> 
> 
> *
> @airomerix @Trailer23 @Khanivore @notorious_eagle
> @SIPRA @masterchief_mirza @Telescopic Sight
> @ziaulislam @GumNaam @seven0seven @Raj-Hindustani @IAF Meteor missile


crowds will always make things up to make themselves look like pattaykhan heroes...simple. now for the REAL question? What exactly did that OTHER AMRAAM kill? Cuz it hit something & it wasn't abhi the none done!


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## Daghalodi

seven0seven said:


> Oh bhai @Suriya is only trolling and nothing else don't feed troll like @Suriya bro
> 
> 
> Ok we displayed fake R-73 wreckage now happy so get lost from here



I know he is a troll. He will repeat the same story after a few days with another id.

Once a bhangi, always a bhangi.

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## Suriya

GumNaam said:


> crowds will always make things up to make themselves look like pattaykhan heroes...simple. now for the REAL question? What exactly did that OTHER AMRAAM kill? Cuz it hit something & it wasn't abhi the none done!


You have to ask these people, they seem to be very confident they captured two pilots. And this interview is in the evening means after DG ISPR had clarified PA got only one pilot.


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## Ultima Thule

What fcuk @Suriya why insist your crap theories and want others to agree your crap stupid theories but remember you India also showed fake AMRAAM debris which was exported by USA to Taiwan according to its serial number
@waz @The Eagle can anyone ban this guy named @Suriya for god sake somebody

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## ziaulislam

Suriya said:


> You have to ask these people, they seem to be very confident they captured two pilots. And this interview is in the evening means after DG ISPR had clarified PA got only one pilot.


Man r73 if supposedly was fired where did it get the juice to outrange the aim120c..was it aquaman pushing it all the way..is your jammed and blinded mig21 a stealth aircarft that AWECS couldnt see exactly where it was and let the f16 fly into it..
Best explanation is still this one


https://imgur.com/82xm60o

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> You have to ask these people, they seem to be very confident they captured two pilots. And this interview is in the evening means after DG ISPR had clarified PA got only one pilot.


Don't divert the topic that you're doing to save face now you're going to second pilot where are the wreck of our f16 if you claims that's is crashed in Pakistan you have satellites to prove your points


----------



## ziaulislam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101151765775425536

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## Trailer23

ziaulislam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101151765775425536


Whats even more amusing is after that expert was removed, this is the coverage they aired & is still present on their YouTube page.





So, from a Defense Expert knowing about the patterns of a F-16 engine & that of a MiG-21..., they bring in a...er...expert - who doesn't know d!ck 'bout Military Hardware other than attending an Air Show or two.

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## GumNaam

Suriya said:


> You have to ask these people, they seem to be very confident they captured two pilots. And this interview is in the evening means after DG ISPR had clarified PA got only one pilot.


I'm asking you & those of you who got a hold of that piece of excluded AMRAAM...which one of your bungholes did that AMRAAM explode inside cuz it obviously wasn't abhi none done's bunghole?

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## Myth_buster_1

@Suriya 

Do you know why left wing missiles took most damage? Thats because AMRAAM was hit from left side which caused left portion of aircraft to be fully engulfed in flame and after impact on ground R-73 exploded. 
Where as the right wing pylons are barely sticking out on ground and damaged so how the flying fk do you expect both R-77 and R-73 to be fully intact? Missiles are not one piece object, it has many removable parts that obviously can be dislodged in pieces from a crash and thats exactly what happened. 
Btw R-73 in question has a serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory.



GumNaam said:


> I'm asking you & those of you who got a hold of that piece of excluded AMRAAM...which one of your bungholes did that AMRAAM explode inside cuz it obviously wasn't abhi none done's bunghole?



The answer: SU-30 (Asian Raptor)


----------



## Ultima Thule

Myth_buster_1 said:


> @Suriya
> 
> Do you know why left wing missiles took most damage? Thats because AMRAAM was hit from left side which caused left portion of aircraft to be fully engulfed in flame and after impact on ground R-73 exploded.
> Where as the right wing pylons are barely sticking out on ground and damaged so how the flying fk do you expect both R-77 and R-73 to be fully intact? Missiles are not one piece object, it has many removable parts that obviously can be dislodged in pieces from a crash and thats exactly what happened.
> Btw R-73 in question has a serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory.
> 
> 
> 
> The answer: SU-30 (Asian Raptor)


@Suriya won't agree with you sir and again insist you to accept his crap theories

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> You have to ask these people, they seem to be very confident they captured two pilots. And this interview is in the evening means after DG ISPR had clarified PA got only one pilot.



If you keep using villagers as a source of information then also accept that Villagers from Indian occupied Kashmir described multiple PAF fighter jets raid on indian sovereignty and multiple kashmiris eyewitness account of Fighter jets (PAF) circling above Mi-17 before it went down. 
As for "dosra banda". Ask your deedee

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## Aliph Ahmed

ziaulislam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101151765775425536



Did we see abhijeet anywhere after thjs or Indian RAW killed him for countering the Indian false claims?

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## Trailer23

Aliph Ahmed said:


> Did we see abhijeet anywhere after thjs or Indian RAW killed him for countering the Indian false claims?


Rumor has it that he went into hiding because after the interview, he started getting these strange messages that he's...

...just kidding.

Anyways, his full name is *Abhijit Iyer-Mitra*

& last year after his infamous goof-up that left all Indians humiliated - he wrote an article for *The Print*
https://theprint.in/opinion/f-16-ne...-lockheed-martin-messed-it-up-so-much/269699/

Around the same time, he was interviewed. Funny thing..., in the YouTube clip he is fully aware of the type of F-16's the PAF used and the choice of Engines. So sure, that he was able to tell the difference in design of the GE & P&W.
https://www.pgurus.com/in-conversat...-mitra-the-entire-india-pak-episode-thus-far/
In the article (above link), he refers to the PAF F-16's as the ' American General Electric F-16.' in the 1st Answer.

This is a video of, I believe the same interview...






Note: Guys, this Vlog was done a day after Operation Swift Retort. So the take aways are...
1. It was exactly the next after his appearance on India Today with Rahul.
2. Abhinandan was still in Pakistan.

So, at the time no one knew what had happened. There were rumors that a JF-17 shot down the MiG-21 and all that. So, some of his remarks may appear odd, but keep in mind...


*...this was the Front Page in Pakistan*




​
This...thing, is also on Twitter: *@Iyervval*

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## maverick1977

Trailer23 said:


> Rumor has it that he went into hiding because after the interview, he started getting these strange messages that he's...
> 
> ...just kidding.
> 
> Anyways, his full name is *Abhijit Iyer-Mitra*
> 
> & last year after his infamous goof-up that left all Indians humiliated - he wrote an article for *The Print*
> https://theprint.in/opinion/f-16-ne...-lockheed-martin-messed-it-up-so-much/269699/
> 
> Around the same time, he was interviewed. Funny thing..., in the YouTube clip he is fully aware of the type of F-16's the PAF used and the choice of Engines. So sure, that he was able to tell the difference in design of the GE & P&W.
> https://www.pgurus.com/in-conversat...-mitra-the-entire-india-pak-episode-thus-far/
> In the article (above link), he refers to the PAF F-16's as the ' American General Electric F-16.' in the 1st Answer.
> 
> This is a video of, I believe the same interview...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note: Guys, this Vlog was done a day after Operation Swift Retort. So the take aways are...
> 1. It was exactly the next after his appearance on India Today with Rahul.
> 2. Abhinandan was still in Pakistan.
> 
> So, at the time no one knew what had happened. There were rumors that a JF-17 shot down the MiG-21 and all that. So, some of his remarks may appear odd, but keep in mind...
> 
> 
> *...this was the Front Page in Pakistan*
> View attachment 625287
> ​
> This...thing, is also on Twitter: *@Iyervval*




what a loser that guy is... calling islamic scholar a freedom fighter an isis like person... disgusting low life analyst


----------



## Trailer23

maverick1977 said:


> what a loser that guy is... calling islamic scholar a freedom fighter an isis like person... disgusting low life analyst


Yeah well, if your search his name on YouTube, you'll find more entertaining goodies of this loser.

However, his interview from last year on India Today has made him the hero in Pakistan where people refer to him as: *the bald gay guy who busted India's plan on Live TV.*

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## maverick1977

Trailer23 said:


> Yeah well, if your search his name on YouTube, you'll find more entertaining goodies of this loser.
> 
> However, his interview from last year on India Today has made him the hero in Pakistan where people refer to him as: *the bald gay guy who busted India's plan on Live TV.*



sachae nikal ati hay kabhi important mokon per, Rahul bahut bara harami kanjar anchor hay .. uskee jo shiekh rashid nay lee wo epic hay


----------



## Trailer23

maverick1977 said:


> sachae nikal ati hay kabhi important mokon per, Rahul bahut bara harami kanjar anchor hay .. uskee jo shiekh rashid nay lee wo epic hay


The official video on India Today's YouTube Channel is clearly edited. It has those cuts with the white flash.

But some *khabees* Pakistani quickly downloaded the full interview & uploaded it on his Channel.

I mean its kinda sad that they deliberately removed the scenes when Shiekh Rasheed kicked Rahul so hard up his nuts, that they simply removed those bits.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

its starting to become a trend that one by one they all come in with same old retarded theories and run away after they get heavy dose of reality check.


----------



## MastanKhan



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## maverick1977

Trailer23 said:


> The official video on India Today's YouTube Channel is clearly edited. It has those cuts with the white flash.
> 
> But some *khabees* Pakistani quickly downloaded the full interview & uploaded it on his Channel.
> 
> I mean its kinda sad that they deliberately removed the scenes when Shiekh Rasheed kicked Rahul so hard up his nuts, that they simply removed those bits.




India has aglobal clout in mass communication.. from new channels, to academia to political circles.. 
their 1971 narrative is an eye opener how they swayed the world opinion against pakistan in east pakistan .. that is 49 years ago, they have taken over the world now.. and meanwhile we had noora lola in power



MastanKhan said:


>




Mastsn khan, lethal admi ho..

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## MastanKhan

maverick1977 said:


> India has aglobal clout in mass communication.. from new channels, to academia to political circles..
> their 1971 narrative is an eye opener how they swayed the world opinion against pakistan in east pakistan .. that is 49 years ago, they have taken over the world now.. and meanwhile we had noora lola in power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mastsn khan, lethal admi ho..



Hi,

There needs to be found a way to counter the enemy propaganda---.


----------



## Suriya

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> There needs to be found a way to counter the enemy propaganda---.


Right side R-73 pylon is hardly damaged but six feet long R-73 missile attached to it is missing on the scene, not just near the pylon but around the wreckage area where parts of all other three missiles were found.

Ab aap hi bolo iska kya matalab he? You always take critical view and known for your original ideas.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Suriya said:


> Right side R-73 pylon is hardly damaged but six feet long R-73 missile attached to it is missing on the scene, not just near the pylon but around the wreckage area where parts of all other three missiles were found.
> 
> Ab aap hi bolo iska kya matalab he? You always take critical view and known for your original ideas.


Not really all missiles were intact, had they been used you wouldnt have founf them fused to the airframe.
Watch at 10:00 mins







Suriya said:


> Right side R-73 pylon is hardly damaged but six feet long R-73 missile attached to it is missing on the scene, not just near the pylon but around the wreckage area where parts of all other three missiles were found.
> 
> Ab aap hi bolo iska kya matalab he? You always take critical view and known for your original ideas.


US digital lab with detailed analysis of the wreckage and the missiles :




Suriya said:


> Right side R-73 pylon is hardly damaged but six feet long R-73 missile attached to it is missing on the scene, not just near the pylon but around the wreckage area where parts of all other three missiles were found.
> 
> Ab aap hi bolo iska kya matalab he? You always take critical view and known for your original ideas.


Both R-73s

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Right side R-73 pylon is hardly damaged but six feet long R-73 missile attached to it is missing on the scene, not just near the pylon but around the wreckage area where parts of all other three missiles were found.
> 
> Ab aap hi bolo iska kya matalab he? You always take critical view and known for your original ideas.


Oh my god here we go again



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not really all missiles were intact, had they been used you wouldnt have founf them fused to the airframe.
> Watch at 10:00 mins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US digital lab with detailed analysis of the wreckage and the missiles :
> 
> 
> 
> Both R-73s
> 
> View attachment 625407
> View attachment 625408
> View attachment 625409


He called sir this one was other R-73 sir you can't win troll and conspiracy theorist like @Suriya sir


----------



## SIPRA

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> I do admire Paks trying to fight *The Legions after Legions of TheGreatPajeetEmpire*..... loosing game!
> 
> There is *Only One Way* to deal with them..... @SIPRA



*Chhittarum Littarum Sundarum*

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## drunken-monke

Trailer23 said:


> *Kindly share the link and/or images of these practices. Mind you, I can spot a altered/fabricated/manufactured image a mile wide.*
> 
> *1.
> Q.* Abhinandan was in our custody for 2 days. Did we leave him off butt-naked?
> *Q.* How 'bout Kargil War's IAF Pilot Kambampati Nachiketa? Did we parade him 'round the streets of Lahore?
> 
> *2.*
> Even if I were to buy your narrative - an image doesn't really speak volume of what's truly going on in one frame*.
> -It could be that they are searching the PoW at the time the picture is taken.
> 
> *Here is an example of an image that has stirred up controversy as well as conspiracy during the Cold War era.
> 
> *Vice President Richard Nixon and Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev during the "Kitchen Debate"*
> 
> 
> 
> ​*3.*
> Do NOT speak of the dead !srali Pilots uniform being displayed. Only a Muslim can appreciate that WAR Trophy. We know you have a soft corner for the Jews, like we give a f#*k 'bout 'em.


We know what you did to Ajay Ahuja (IAF Pilot) and Cpt. Saurabh Kalia from Indian Army Patrolling party.. Don't act like saint..


----------



## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> We know what you did to Ajay Ahuja (IAF Pilot) and Cpt. Saurabh Kalia from Indian Army Patrolling party.. Don't act like saint..


Another baseless troll is here


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> Right side R-73 pylon is hardly damaged but six feet long R-73 missile attached to it is missing on the scene, not just near the pylon but around the wreckage area where parts of all other three missiles were found.
> 
> Ab aap hi bolo iska kya matalab he? You always take critical view and known for your original ideas.



How the hell do you expect missiles to be still intact and attached to right wing pylons when both of pylons are hardly sticking out of the ground! Do you see the massive wing??????? most of right wing R-77 and R-73 dislodged missiles were recovered underneath the wing. 








drunken-monke said:


> We know what you did to Ajay Ahuja (IAF Pilot) and Cpt. Saurabh Kalia from Indian Army Patrolling party.. Don't act like saint..


ab ja kay taliya bajao.

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## drunken-monke

seven0seven said:


> Another baseless troll is here


NO I am not. These two casulties are from Kargil War.

https://www.aviation-defence-univer...-ajay-ahuja-inspires-air-warriors-even-today/
https://www.news18.com/news/india/p...his-soldiers-after-capturing-them-999802.html

Those two links for the martyred soldiers..



Myth_buster_1 said:


> How the hell do you expect missiles to be still intact and attached to right wing pylons when both of pylons are hardly sticking out of the ground! Do you see the massive wing??????? most of right wing R-77 and R-73 dislodged missiles were recovered underneath the wing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ab ja kay taliya bajao.


Will clap, whenever our armed forces teach the 'Son of Gun' a lesson like the one IA did few days back at Kupwara.. Many more to come.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

drunken-monke said:


> We know what you did to Ajay Ahuja (IAF Pilot) and Cpt. Saurabh Kalia from Indian Army Patrolling party.. Don't act like saint..


Lies are free.

While we know what you scumbags did to Lance Naik Maqsood and we have proof of it:













https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-seeks-probe-into-lance-naiks-torture-killing.228732/

We also have seen what you did to Sepoy Maqbool Hussain who returned home a broken man after almost 5 decades:










We also know how your pathetic army beheaded Pak soldier and kept his head as trophy:

https://www.himalmag.com/confessions-of-a-war-reporter-barkha-dutt-kargil-war-reporting/


So go fk yourself.

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## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> NO I am not. These two casulties are from Kargil War.
> 
> https://www.aviation-defence-univer...-ajay-ahuja-inspires-air-warriors-even-today/
> https://www.news18.com/news/india/p...his-soldiers-after-capturing-them-999802.html
> 
> Those two links for the martyred soldiers..


Is this thread for kargil war you troll

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## Suriya

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 625407
> View attachment 625408


That's an model of R-77 and the diagram used is of R-77 missile.

Also the part was used for R-77 during display done by Pakistan.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> That's an model of R-77 and the diagram used is of R-77 missile.
> 
> Also the part was used for R-77 during display done by Pakistan.


@The Eagle @waz


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Suriya said:


> That's an model of R-77 and the diagram used is of R-77 missile.
> 
> Also the part was used for R-77 during display done by Pakistan.


Why dont you play the video from 10 min or see the US link provided?

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## Ultima Thule

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Why dont you play the video from 10 min or see the US link provided?


He won't agree with you sir EVER

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## DESERT FIGHTER

seven0seven said:


> He won't agree with you sir EVER


Of course he wont... he’s indian afterall.

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## TheTallGuy

@drunken-monke 

I can tell you what happened to Sqn Ldr.Ajay Ahuja..how he died but then you are going to ask me proof which i cant provide....or no one will...i respect him for what he did..unlike his Squadron Mate who after becoming Air Chief had resorted to.. but lets say what i am going to tell you is 1st Hand truth...and sometimes truth is stranger then fiction.

It goes like this...Sqn Ldr.Ajay Ahuja ejected and landed over the rocks in shallow vally gorge..he was surrounded he had a pistol he fired 1 or 2 rounds...when situation become dire...we had not fired the guns at him..our task was to catch him...when we were close enough we started exchanging verbal abuse and chatter..Then Capt. of our unit (NLI) approached him...he came out from behind the rock pointing his gun at captain..when they were between 6-7 feet our captain told him you are surrounded better surrender its a saner choice...your gun has 7-8 rounds...we are more then 15. if you kill me and other 10 soldiers still we are going to catch you...after listening to this and pointing his gun at captain...he backed off 1 or 2 step ...put his own gun to head own head...and fired. he killed himself.

he was brave surely..i respect him for his bravery and i tell you because of certain chivalry between the soldiers.. we had to bring his body back.

This is the truth...this is how it happened...

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## Mentee

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lies are free.
> 
> While we know what you scumbags did to Lance Naik Maqsood and we have proof of it:
> 
> View attachment 625425
> 
> View attachment 625423
> 
> View attachment 625424
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-seeks-probe-into-lance-naiks-torture-killing.228732/
> 
> We also have seen what you did to Sepoy Maqbool Hussain who returned home a broken man after almost 5 decades:
> 
> View attachment 625426
> View attachment 625427
> 
> 
> 
> We also know how your pathetic army beheaded Pak soldier and kept his head as trophy:
> 
> https://www.himalmag.com/confessions-of-a-war-reporter-barkha-dutt-kargil-war-reporting/
> 
> 
> So go yourself.




@Syed Hammad Ahmed Yeh daikh lay

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## Trailer23

drunken-monke said:


> We know what you did...


Yes, you were in possession of this Military Hardware that enabled you to know what happened to them.





When one knows that he is caught/surrounded/cornered..., the wise decision outta be to give yourself up and not act like a damn Hero. Who is to know that he/they attempted to flee or retaliate against a Force when he/they were outnumbered.

You honestly believe all the Wars that have been going about in the past few decades have the motto: Play by the Rules.

How naive are you? And i'm as much of a 'Saint' as you are - so lets not get in to that.

There have been number of US Army & Marines that have been accused & tried for torture in Iraq & Afghanistan... And that is of Civilians.

But, you guys play by the book. You never torture anyone. You just hand your PoW's over to Pakistan on a silver platter - the very next day or two.

[If I had a paisa everytime I heard that one - i'd have 20 Rupees by now]​


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## drunken-monke

Trailer23 said:


> Yes, you were in possession of this Military Hardware that enabled you to know what happened to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When one knows that he is caught/surrounded/cornered..., the wise decision outta be to give yourself up and not act like a damn Hero. Who is to know that he/they attempted to flee or retaliate against a Force when he/they were outnumbered.
> 
> You honestly believe all the Wars that have been going about in the past few decades have the motto: Play by the Rules.
> 
> How naive are you? And i'm as much of a 'Saint' as you are - so lets not get in to that.
> 
> There have been number of US Army & Marines that have been accused & tried for torture in Iraq & Afghanistan... And that is of Civilians.
> 
> But, you guys play by the book. You never torture anyone. You just hand your PoW's over to Pakistan on a silver platter - the very next day or two.
> 
> [If I had a paisa everytime I heard that one - i'd have 20 Rupees by now]​


Exactly my point to forum mates from your country. They can't blame others while claiming self to adhere all Geneva convention laws..


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## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> Exactly my point to forum mates from your country. They can't blame others while claiming self to adhere all Geneva convention laws..


You're warmongering country not Pakistan is the warmongering country

YOU'RE THE BIGGEST MESS/THREAT FOR THE PEACE OF THE SUBCONTINENT

JAY TERRORIST HIND

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## drunken-monke

seven0seven said:


> You're warmongering country not Pakistan is the warmongering country
> 
> YOU'RE THE BIGGEST MESS/THREAT FOR THE PEACE OF THE SUBCONTINENT
> 
> JAY TERRORIST HIND


How many times we Initiated war with Pakistan?? 1948, 1965, 1971, 1999??
We are not warmongering, however we will not back down when threatened or attacked upon..
Welcome back any day...


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## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> How many times we Initiated war with Pakistan?? 1948, 1965, 1971, 1999??
> We are not warmongering, however we will not back down when threatened or attacked upon..
> Welcome back any day...


Except 99 we are not initiated any war against India
Go bharat bubak forum please and read the real history of indo-pak from neutral SOURCE

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## sonic boom

Indian media confused Naik Usman with Subedar Ahmad Ali of Pakistan Army who was martyred in Nakyal sector few months back Indian media claimed “Pak Army soldier who caught #abhinandan was killed” actually it was Naik Usman who caught Indian pilot and he is still alive #Feb27

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232694192431697921

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## drunken-monke

seven0seven said:


> Except 99 we are not initiated any war against India
> Go bharat bubak forum please and read the real history of indo-pak from neutral SOURCE


1948 - Pakistani regulars in disguise as guerrillas invaded Kashmir
1965 - Aggressive patrolling in Rann of Katch, operation Gibraltar, operation grand slam?
1971 - 3rd Dec PAF did a preemptive strikes on IAFs 11 bases..
1999 - Occupying the heights of Indian Kashmir and killing of Saurabh Kalia and members of his patrolling party..

Dear @HRK why negative rating? Putting your point is against the forum rules?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

drunken-monke said:


> 1948 - Pakistani regulars in disguise as guerrillas invaded Kashmir
> 1965 - Aggressive patrolling in Rann of Katch, operation Gibraltar, operation grand slam?
> 1971 - 3rd Dec PAF did a preemptive strikes on IAFs 11 bases..
> 1999 - Occupying the heights of Indian Kashmir and killing of Saurabh Kalia and members of his patrolling party..







Of which you can provide NO credible or irrefutable evidence to confirm ANY OF the above..........

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## Pakistani Fighter

drunken-monke said:


> 1948 - Pakistani regulars in disguise as guerrillas invaded Kashmir
> 1965 - Aggressive patrolling in Rann of Katch, operation Gibraltar, operation grand slam?
> 1971 - 3rd Dec PAF did a preemptive strikes on IAFs 11 bases..
> 1999 - Occupying the heights of Indian Kashmir and killing of Saurabh Kalia and members of his patrolling party..
> 
> Dear @HRK why negative rating? Putting your point is against the forum rules?


1984?
1986?
2001-2?
2008?
2019?


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## drunken-monke

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> 1984?
> 1986?
> 2001-2?
> 2008?
> 2019?


Not full blown wars.. But mention appreciated. I forgot those..


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## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> 1948 - Pakistani regulars in disguise as guerrillas invaded Kashmir
> 1965 - Aggressive patrolling in Rann of Katch, operation Gibraltar, operation grand slam?
> 1971 - 3rd Dec PAF did a preemptive strikes on IAFs 11 bases..
> 1999 - Occupying the heights of Indian Kashmir and killing of Saurabh Kalia and members of his patrolling party..
> 
> Dear @HRK why negative rating? Putting your point is against the forum rules?


YOU ALL WRONG KASHMIRIS TRIBES CALLED US FOR HELP THAT SOONER OR LATER DOGRA RAJ WILL JOIN YOU THAT'S WHY WE WENT FOR HELP

2 THERE WERE NO AGGRESSIVE POSTURES IN RUNN OF KUCH BY PA BUT YOU ATTACKED US FIRST AND OPERATION GIBRALTAR AND GRAND SLAM WERE NOT AN ATTACK AND NOT ON MAINLAND OF INDIA BUT INTERNATIONAL DISPUTED AREA (IOK) ESPECIALLY OPERATION GIBRALTAR WAS NOT AN ATTACK THAT YOU THINK BUT ITS LIKE KIND OF REBELLION OR COUP ATTEMPT BY PA

OH MY GOD YOU'RE MASTERS IN MANIPULATIONS AND TWISTING A FACTS WHO BACKING UP MUKHTI BAHANI WITH WEAPONS STATE OF ART COMMUNICATION DEVICES (RADIO STATIONS) TO DO PROPAGANDA AND THOSE STRIKES WERE IN BETWEEN THE WAR WHEN YOU INVADED EAST PAKISTAN ( BEGINNING OF WAR)



drunken-monke said:


> Not full blown wars.. But mention appreciated. I forgot those..


YOU'RE NOT AN INNOCENT AND ANGEL EITHER IN THE SUBCONTINENT

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## drunken-monke

seven0seven said:


> YOU ALL WRONG KASHMIRIS TRIBES CALLED US FOR HELP THAT SOONER OR LATER DOGRA RAJ WILL JOIN YOU THAT'S WHY WE WENT FOR HELP
> 
> 2 THERE WERE NO AGGRESSIVE POSTURES IN RUNN OF KUCH BY PA BUT YOU ATTACKED US FIRST AND OPERATION GIBRALTAR AND GRAND SLAM WERE NOT AN ATTACK AND NOT ON MAINLAND OF INDIA BUT INTERNATIONAL DISPUTED AREA (IOK) ESPECIALLY OPERATION GIBRALTAR WAS NOT AN ATTACK THAT YOU THINK BUT ITS LIKE KIND OF REBELLION OR COUP ATTEMPT BY PA
> 
> OH MY GOD YOU'RE MASTERS IN MANIPULATIONS AND TWISTING A FACTS WHO BACKING UP MUKHTI BAHANI WITH WEAPONS STATE OF ART COMMUNICATION DEVICES (RADIO STATIONS) TO DO PROPAGANDA AND THOSE STRIKES WERE IN BETWEEN THE WAR WHEN YOU INVADED EAST PAKISTAN ( BEGINNING OF WAR)
> 
> 
> YOU'RE NOT AN INNOCENT AND ANGEL EITHER IN THE SUBCONTINENT


Offcourse India is not innocent, neither I am claiming.
For Rann of Katch, who started patrolling the areas controlled by other?
Had the kashmiri tribes called for help then, kashmiris would be have joined the battle.. Complete Kashmir would have been part of Pakistan isn't that?
Who deprived Bengalis of their right and put them under arrest? Didnt awami leage won majority of seats and deprived by the power by Yaha Khan? Genocide of 3 million bengalis? Mass rape of those helpless women?

One question to all Pakistani forum members before I leave for the day, why so many coups in Pakistan over the space of 6 decades? Why PA could not trust the elected government of Pakistan? Perhaps my question is answer to all your arguments..


----------



## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> For Rann of Katch, who started patrolling the areas controlled by other?


Back up with neutral source not just your wording


drunken-monke said:


> Had the kashmiri tribes called for help then, kashmiris would be have joined the battle.. Complete Kashmir would have been part of Pakistan isn't that?


Yeah lots of kashmiris fight along with PA


drunken-monke said:


> Who deprived Bengalis of their right and put them under arrest? Didnt awami leage won majority of seats and deprived by the power by Yaha Khan? Genocide of 3 million bengalis? Mass rape of those helpless women?


And why you interfere in our internal matters main questions is that do we interfered in india's internal matters lame logic you have


drunken-monke said:


> One question to all Pakistani forum members before I leave for the day, why so many coups in Pakistan over the space of 6 decades? Why PA could not trust the elected government of Pakistan? Perhaps my question is answer to all your arguments..


Because of corrupted and traitor politicians not looking for betterment of Pakistan (corrupt political system as a whole)


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## drunken-monke

seven0seven said:


> Back up with neutral source not just your wording
> 
> Yeah lots of kashmiris fight along with PA
> 
> And why you interfere in our internal matters main questions is that do we interfered in india's internal matters lame logic you have
> 
> *Because of corrupted and traitor politicians not looking for betterment of Pakistan (corrupt political system as a whole)*


And yet Pakistan is struggling after so many coups.. Perhaps Tenure of Ayub Khan is the one which saw good development of Pakistan and for a long duration enjoyed its benefits.. Zia hul Haq was the one which pushed Pakistan in to radiclizaton.. Pakistan would have been ahead of India, but policies of Zia were worst..


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## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> And yet Pakistan is struggling after so many coups.. Perhaps Tenure of Ayub Khan is the one which saw good development of Pakistan and for a long duration enjoyed its benefits.. Zia hul Haq was the one which pushed Pakistan in to radiclizaton.. Pakistan would have been ahead of India, but policies of Zia were worst..


Do not divert the topic to political discussion
Answer my question why you interfere in our internal matters in 71, i prove wrong that you say we attack you in wars between India and Pakistan


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## drunken-monke

seven0seven said:


> Do not divert the topic to political discussion
> Answer my question why you interfere in our internal matters in 71, i prove wrong that you say we attack you in wars between India and Pakistan


Because your internal matters were destroying our economy.. Refuges from east Pakistan were would have eaten much of Indian resources..


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## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> Because your internal matters were destroying our economy.. Refuges from east Pakistan were would have eaten much of Indian resources..


Oh few lakh migrants from east Pakistan would eat your economy what a joke you have and its also a lame justification


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## drunken-monke

seven0seven said:


> Oh few lakh migrants from east Pakistan would eat your economy what a joke you have and its also a lame justification


I don't give a damn even if you don't agree!! My last post to you..


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## Ultima Thule

drunken-monke said:


> I don't give a damn even if you don't agree!! My last post to you..


Because you have no sane logic in your sleeves


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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> That's an model of R-77 and the diagram used is of R-77 missile.
> 
> Also the part was used for R-77 during display done by Pakistan.



You meant R-73? So was it purchased from ebay? 
Btw it has a serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory.

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## truthfollower



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## Trailer23

I hate these images with the titles & emojis.

Anyways, Azman Khalil (Centre) and a young *Hassan Siddiqui* (far right).

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## Myth_buster_1

Here is a stupid pilot asking for entire serial number because 11 digits are not enough to determine if it belongs to IAF inventory or not.


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## ziaulislam

seven0seven said:


> He won't agree with you sir EVER


They dont agree with full HD satelite images showing how india missed its target and stating that a missle drilled itself into a building and did a control blast..and u expect to have educated discussion ????..really??..same guy was stating abhi isnt an indian because of his mustache angle






Their airchief tried to cover up something as simple and as clear as this...





Which makes me beleive that the reason why IAF accepted mi17 crash was to squash sometging sinster..probably something more embrassing which is..loss of su30 & the fact that mi17 was on SAR mission


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## Path-Finder

ziaulislam said:


> They dont agree with full HD satelite images showing how india missed its target and stating that a missle drilled itself into a building and did a control blast..and u expect to have educated discussion ????..really??..same guy was stating abhi isnt an indian because of his mustache angle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their airchief tried to cover up something as simple and as clear as this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which makes me beleive that the reason why IAF accepted mi17 crash was to squash sometging sinster..probably something more embrassing which is..loss of su30 & the fact that mi17 was on SAR mission


like former DGISPR said maybe the bumb they used had a drill machine, it drilled a hole in the wall entered and only destroyed the interior. vedick techlology.


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## ziaulislam

Path-Finder said:


> like former DGISPR said maybe the bumb they used had a drill machine, it drilled a hole in the wall entered and only destroyed the interior. vedick techlology.


or someone needs to tell them how big is 50 cm...if it isn't visible in 50cm resolution from European satellites than i doubt it was even a drill...had to be phase technology that phased through the roof or may be they used star terk technology "beam in" tech


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## Path-Finder

ziaulislam said:


> or someone needs to tell them how big is 50 cm...if it isn't visible in 50cm resolution from European satellites than i doubt it was even a drill...had to be phase technology that phased through the roof or may be they used star terk technology "beam in" tech


the imagination can run wild with strange phantasies which is normal daily thing for indians. making up things backed with immense universal powered phantasy engine can produce many gems for our entertainment.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Query from an Iranian member. I am moving it here as it falls under the scope of this thread.



Hack-Hook said:


> there is no evidence of su-30 its several month i ask for evidence of that and only get evidence of nig-21 . thay Su-30 shotdown to me is exactly like India claim about f-16 shotdown.





Hack-Hook said:


> what conspiracy theory showme a pic of dawned Su-30MKI





Hack-Hook said:


> I don't believe in media stunt with no evidence.
> here is a study that I can appreciate
> 
> 
> if you have evidence to suggest something else please provide it I'm all eye and ear
> and please don't provide media stunt as evidence other wise I have to post this stunts from indian
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...istani-f-16-says-iaf/articleshow/68780475.cms


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## ziaulislam

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Query from an Iranian member. I am moving it here as it falls under the scope of this thread.


Simple su 30 kill is claim not visual confirmed ...based upon data ..
But its not like mig21 claim...

claimig that aim120c killed a su30 is plausible has happened before ....

but mig21 (without firing a short range missle) did a kill with r73 where itself was prey of a BVR? Does that even make sense..especially since PAF had AWECS on its side & IAF didnt

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## ziaulislam

R73 is short range with visaul range missle...


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## Myth_buster_1

ziaulislam said:


> R73 is short range with visaul range missle...


no, it has vedic tech that enables it to chase F-16 for 1000 miles with 100% accuracy.


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## alee92nawaz

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.


Started with a 400km hit and ended with dodging

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## Hack-Hook

As I said I don't have problem with Mig-21 shotdown , there is evidence for that . but there is no evidence of SU-30 or F-16 shot down only claims without evidence . my question do you guys have any evidence for those two claim ? if not why you still insist on Su-30 and Indian are insisting on F-16 shot down claim . 
why there is no satellite imagery of those two plane shot down but there is satelite immage for Mig-21


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## Trailer23

Hack-Hook said:


> my question do you guys have any evidence for those two claim ?


Do you think we'd be jerking you 'bout for no reason?!!

We're on Page #643. Just goto page #1 & start flipping through page by page. I'm a 100% certain you'll get your evidence there.


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## Myth_buster_1

alee92nawaz said:


> Started with a 400km hit and ended with dodging


the raptor of asia and champion of amraam dodgers can see f-16s 400km away but exit out of battle from 500 km away

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## Safriz

I guess Putin is not happy with India having his modern jet SU-30 shot down by an old American made F-16 of Pakistan

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## Hack-Hook

Trailer23 said:


> Do you think we'd be jerking you 'bout for no reason?!!
> 
> We're on Page #643. Just goto page #1 & start flipping through page by page. I'm a 100% certain you'll get your evidence there.


Can you point me to the evidence. I could only find Mig-21 evidence.



Safriz said:


> I guess Putin is not happy with India having his modern jet SU-30 shot down by an old American made F-16 of Pakistan
> 
> View attachment 626018


Do you have any evidence about SU-30MKI ? There is nothing in open source media . do you have any evidence.


----------



## Haris Ali2140

Hack-Hook said:


> Can you point me to the evidence. I could only find Mig-21 evidence.
> 
> 
> Do you have any evidence about SU-30MKI ? There is nothing in open source media . do you have any evidence.


No there is zilch available on Internet or anyone on the forum. Only thing available is an exploded AMRAAM in the hands of Indians. The question is why its proximity fused has gone off???


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## Hack-Hook

Haris Ali2140 said:


> No there is zilch available on Internet or anyone on the forum. Only thing available is an exploded AMRAAM in the hands of Indians. The question is why its proximity fused has gone off???


Maybe not proximity switch . it can be that you fired to missile toward Indian fighter and after the first one destroyed the fighter the second one had no target to engage so it self destruct over India . or maybe you fired one but because it was near india part of the missile fall in India and they got it (it's possible depended on the distance)

Or there was no aim 120 and India showed a forgery after all you claimed you used jf-17 not f-16 and I believe only your f-16 use aim-120.


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## alee92nawaz

Hack-Hook said:


> Maybe not proximity switch . it can be that you fired to missile toward Indian fighter and after the first one destroyed the fighter the second one had no target to engage so it self destruct over India . or maybe you fired one but because it was near india part of the missile fall in India and they got it (it's possible depended on the distance)
> 
> Or there was no aim 120 and India showed a forgery after all you claimed you used jf-17 not f-16 and I believe only your f-16 use aim-120.


Dear indian troll.
Pakistan didn't use the F-16 to strike targets inside India. It was done by Mirage 3/5 and JF-17. F-16s were providing air cover from inside Pakistan. So when your nandu and avenger 1 tried to engage our package, got an amraam up their arse. The rest of your falcon eaters kept disengaging or dodging. To which I think they were deliberately kept at *dodging* so that our strike package could easily do their job. According to PAF they could have shot 9 indian jets but were only cleared to shot 2. also sometimes ask why the death count from the chopper crash went from 3 to 6 after few hours.

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## Hack-Hook

alee92nawaz said:


> Dear indian troll.
> Pakistan didn't use the F-16 to strike targets inside India. It was done by Mirage 3/5 and JF-17. F-16s were providing air cover from inside Pakistan. So when your nandu and avenger 1 tried to engage our package, got an amraam up their arse. The rest of your falcon eaters kept disengaging or dodging. To which I think they were deliberately kept at *dodging* so that our strike package could easily do their job. According to PAF they could have shot 9 indian jets but were only cleared to shot 2. also sometimes ask why the death count from the chopper crash went from 3 to 6 after few hours.


you only claim twobut show evidence of one.
show us evidence of any second shot down .
and answer the fact . that you claim you used only JF-17 and Mirage but no F-16 then explain to us AIM-120 part in India.

and before posting blah, blah , blah check with who you are talking.
and I don't care how many you could shot down ,9 or 90 it's mnot matter wht mater is that you only provide evidence for one so its only Mig-21 no matter how much insult you are sending toward me unless you provide fact that point to something else.


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## Myth_buster_1

Hack-Hook said:


> you only claim twobut show evidence of one.
> show us evidence of any second shot down .
> and answer the fact . that you claim you used only JF-17 and Mirage but no F-16 then explain to us AIM-120 part in India.
> 
> and before posting blah, blah , blah check with who you are talking.
> and I don't care how many you could shot down ,9 or 90 it's mnot matter wht mater is that you only provide evidence for one so its only Mig-21 no matter how much insult you are sending toward me unless you provide fact that point to something else.



JF-17 and Mirages were used to strike inside India
F-16s were used within air space of Pakistan and they fired AMRAAMs.


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## masterchief_mirza

Hack-Hook said:


> Or there was no aim 120 and India showed a forgery after all you claimed you used jf-17 not f-16 and I believe only your f-16 use aim-120.


This was an old claim (that f16 was not involved), made ostensibly to avoid any controversy over its usage in a combat scenario against India due to ambiguous terms and conditions attached to our acquisition of f16s from USA. Since it was decided that its usage in a defensive posture was not in breach of said t&c's, Pakistan has accepted its use. As far a I am aware, both the mig21 and the su30 were shot down by f16s. You may now safely drop this particular enquiry. 

The missile that was revealed in the Indian presser by BS Dhanoa was indeed an amraam missile fired by PAF that detonated in Indian territory. The most plausible explanation for this is that it hit an aircraft. Since the missile was recovered in India, it follows that it struck an aircraft in Indian airspace. If a Pakistani jet was hit in India, it would have been on display in Delhi by now. If they have no target to hit, such missiles do not detonate. Feel free to look back at earlier posts in this thread. It's all there, along with further technical evidence that is beyond my amateur level of understanding.

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## ziaulislam

Hack-Hook said:


> you only claim twobut show evidence of one.
> show us evidence of any second shot down .
> and answer the fact . that you claim you used only JF-17 and Mirage but no F-16 then explain to us AIM-120 part in India.
> 
> and before posting blah, blah , blah check with who you are talking.
> and I don't care how many you could shot down ,9 or 90 it's mnot matter wht mater is that you only provide evidence for one so its only Mig-21 no matter how much insult you are sending toward me unless you provide fact that point to something else.



in eyes of neutral observer su30, kill will remain a claim, not a confirmed kill..PAF claims is, however, supported by circumstantial evidence including the fact that IAF back down, AIM120 superiority, radar data, mi17 on a SAR mission and an initial news report in India media/eye witness on the ground stating that in addition to helicopter a jet was shotdown
Orignal operation "swift retort" didn't had any F16s, F16s were simply like rests of the airforce on air defence duties..the operation itself was conducted by mirages3/5 escorted by jf17s (back up ammunition support) and SAAB AWECs along with jammers from "blinders"


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## El Sidd

Hack-Hook said:


> you only claim twobut show evidence of one.
> show us evidence of any second shot down .
> and answer the fact . that you claim you used only JF-17 and Mirage but no F-16 then explain to us AIM-120 part in India.
> 
> and before posting blah, blah , blah check with who you are talking.
> and I don't care how many you could shot down ,9 or 90 it's mnot matter wht mater is that you only provide evidence for one so its only Mig-21 no matter how much insult you are sending toward me unless you provide fact that point to something else.



please accept ghoribs apology. he must have mistaken your flags. please be merciful with him


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## Hack-Hook

Myth_buster_1 said:


> JF-17 and Mirages were used to strike inside India
> F-16s were used within air space of Pakistan and they fired AMRAAMs.


so you agree to insian claims that you used AMRAAM to hit their planes .now if you only could prove to me it was two planet not only one



masterchief_mirza said:


> As far a I am aware, both the mig21 and the su30 were shot down by f16s. You may now safely drop this particular enquiry.


the problem is that you only have prove for one mig-21 and AIM-120 does have a self destruct mechanism



ziaulislam said:


> Orignal operation "swift retort" didn't had any F16s, F16s were simply like rests of the airforce on air defence duties..the operation itself was conducted by mirages3/5 escorted by jf17s (back up ammunition support) and SAAB AWECs along with jammers from "blinders"


that explain it



ziaulislam said:


> in eyes of neutral observer su30, kill will remain a claim, not a confirmed kill..PAF claims is, however, supported by circumstantial evidence including the fact that IAF back down, AIM120 superiority, radar data, mi17 on a SAR mission and an initial news report in India media/eye witness on the ground stating that in addition to helicopter a jet was shotdown


there is so many reason that the missile debries falling in India .
the people may seen many thing but did they provided any evidence of the second crash , did satelites recorded a crash site ?
and the india news may be many thing , did they provide many evidence ? just 2 days ago there was rumor on media that Sardar Qaani have been assasinated in syria , well itturned out to be some hoax


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## alee92nawaz

Hack-Hook said:


> you only claim twobut show evidence of one.
> show us evidence of any second shot down .
> and answer the fact . that you claim you used only JF-17 and Mirage but no F-16 then explain to us AIM-120 part in India.
> 
> and before posting blah, blah , blah check with who you are talking.
> and I don't care how many you could shot down ,9 or 90 it's mnot matter wht mater is that you only provide evidence for one so its only Mig-21 no matter how much insult you are sending toward me unless you provide fact that point to something else.


First of all tell why do you indiots like to pose as white people? Also that amraam is proof enough if you want to believe. Or just believe in the mig 21 kill only. That's enough. You mess with us? We'll hurt you bad. That too in your own airspace and broad daylight. Sit down now.


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## Myth_buster_1

Hack-Hook said:


> so you agree to insian claims that you used AMRAAM to hit their planes .now if you only could prove to me it was two planet not only one


wtf r u talking about?
AMRAAM has over 100km range meaning it does not have to enter inside india to shot iaf down.


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## ziaulislam

Hack-Hook said:


> so you agree to insian claims that you used AMRAAM to hit their planes .now if you only could prove to me it was two planet not only one
> 
> 
> the problem is that you only have prove for one mig-21 and AIM-120 does have a self destruct mechanism
> 
> 
> that explain it
> 
> 
> there is so many reason that the missile debries falling in India .
> the people may seen many thing but did they provided any evidence of the second crash , did satelites recorded a crash site ?
> and the india news may be many thing , did they provide many evidence ? just 2 days ago there was rumor on media that Sardar Qaani have been assasinated in syria , well itturned out to be some hoax


that's why its called claim, not a kill..

as far as open-source info is, aim doesn't has a self destruct sequence..most AAM don't ..it has to do with missile flight time unpredictability(but I can be wrong)

there are plenty of eye witnesses, at the site of crash India media personnel asks a Kashmiri whether anything else crashed and he said another fighter jet has crashed near by..

finding an AIM120 so quickly, eyewitness and PAF claim that they have radar data (given PAF had even AWECs in sky with most comprehensive battle view) i would say the odds are really high that su 30 was at least hit by an SU30 with likely crash..

this contributed to stunning of IAF and would explain lack of resposne

regardless the summary PROVEN HARD FACTS of feb FIASCO ARE

India missed its targets, 
shot down its own mi17, 
its airforce was openly challenged and its sites were bombed, 
lost ATLEAST 1 jet was shotdown and had a POW paraded..

a total and shameful defeat

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## Cookie Monster

drunken-monke said:


> In war unproven claims and counter claims are quite common. Also in fog of war, it is sometimes possible that false or unverified news start to circulate. For example, on 27th Feb ISPR and Pak PM claimed to have captured 3 Indian pilots only to retract it hours later when they could only produce only 1 pilot.
> 
> SU 30 MKI is most modern and potent aircraft in indian Airforce inventory so a scalp will boost PAF morale.
> 
> The objective of Operation Swift Retort was to retaliate IAF strike on 26th Feb and salvage some honour.


Salvage some honor? So if enemy country's airforce carries out attacks on ur territory then honor is violated and it must be responded? Then why was there no response from India when PAF attacked Indian territory? According to ur own argument it would mean u have no honor.

The reality is that both India and Pak can carry out air attacks against each other at any time...either with stand off weapons...or where terrain(such as a mountainous area) allows to sneak in quite a distance without being detected or even in some areas where the radar coverage might be lacking. It's no amazing feat...and nothing can be done about it by either side...not in the short term anyways. What matters is how u respond to ur enemy's incursions...and we both know that only one side responded 


drunken-monke said:


> PAF launched a large package of aircraft- F 16, Mirage and JF17. Mirage and JF 17 were to attempt attack against military installations while F16s were to give air cover and draw IAF CAPs to PAF dominated killing zones.


PAF will do whatever it must to get the job done...if IAF didn't expect it then it's their failure. I keep seeing Indians bringing it up over and over that PAF had a numerical advantage and what not...whatever happened to the previous showboating by u guys about IAF's numerical advantage? Moreover if India detected PAF jets on its radar then IAF should've roughly known how many PAF jets are incoming...they are not stealth jets. Why wasn't an appropriate number of IAF jets were scrambled to respond? If there wasn't a sufficient quantity of IAF jets present to respond in a timely manner(meaning they were too far away to get there in time) then why even bother to respond half heartedly? Ending up being called AMRAAM dodgers and telling Abhinandan to flow cold...should've let Abhinandan sip on his tea safe on base in India.

I have never seen any airforce respond to incursions by enemy jets...only to get up in the air and then bail once they see it's too many enemy jets for them to take on...does IAF really have to send it's pilots up to visually count?(rhetorical question)


drunken-monke said:


> PAF JF 17 and Mirage managed to drop weapons in vicinity on Indian military installations- whether targets were missed by design or PAF was forced to miss the target when challenged by IAF is a moot question.


They released videos...these were guided bombs...the second pilot in the PAF Mirages were guiding these bombs. If they had the time to guide them near the target(but not on it) then they also had enough time to guide it on to the target itself. The video footage of the bomb's guidance was made public along with google maps imagery to show exactly how it all happened(which is much more than what IAF has provided).


drunken-monke said:


> F16s fired (India claims 5–6) few AMRAAMs at Indian aircraft with 1 confirmed kill of Indian MiG21, incidentally PAF denied involvement of F16 and attributed kill to JF17 but was forced to come clean when India showed debris on AMRAAM to media.


No Pak was not forced to admit anything. Pak said that no F16s were used in the operation...which is entirely correct. NO F16 WAS USED IN THE *OPERATION*...Operation Swift Retort involved the use of Mirages and JF17 to deliver the package...F16s weren't a part of it. F16s were carrying out CAPs and only got involved once IAF jets were airborne.


drunken-monke said:


> So far PAF has been caught deceiving twice: 1) IAF pilot in custody 2) Use of F16 and AMRAAMs


As for 1...
IAF pilot was in custody...not at all a lie. The only thing about the 2 pilots confusion was just a miscommunication. Abhinandan was captured and then transferred to a hospital...this was thought of as one in custody and one admitted to the hospital.

For 2...see above.

How about now u explain all the myriad of Indian lies?...all of which have been thoroughly debunked by neutral third party sources...even very pro India and anti Pak ppl like Christine Fair aren't willing to back India on such lies.


drunken-monke said:


> With no physical proof like SU 30 wreckage or any photo/video evidence, the claim of PAF is unverified and unfounded.


U mean just like Indian claim of shooting down an F16? At least PAF pilot is owning up to his shooting of an IAF Su30...Abhinandan has yet to publicly claim his.


drunken-monke said:


> In 21st century with mobile phones in every nook and corner of Kashmir it is impossible to hide an incident of such magnitude.


Yup...and yet there were no such mass funeral held for "300 terrorists" that were "killed" by IAF. Like u said...in this era of everyone having mobile phones it is impossible to hide such things. No such videos surfaced for that "destroyed building" either...that was supposed to be the target...
...as for Indian claim that Pak must have repaired it...no one recorded any videos of debris being transported out and construction material/workers going in.


drunken-monke said:


> In past, there has been instances where Pak made false claims like
> 
> No involvement of army regulars in Kargil conflict
> News of liberation of Dhaka on 16th December 1971 was hidden from population of Pakistan with call to “War till Victory” on December 17th 1971 in national newspapers.


The only correct thing in ur post is ur username bcuz from what u wrote...it does seem u r drunk. I'm fascinated by how logic works only one way for u guys...anyways keep on being delusional...it's good for us.

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## Aliph Ahmed

Hack-Hook said:


> you only claim twobut show evidence of one.
> show us evidence of any second shot down .
> and answer the fact . that you claim you used only JF-17 and Mirage but no F-16 then explain to us AIM-120 part in India.
> 
> and before posting blah, blah , blah check with who you are talking.
> and I don't care how many you could shot down ,9 or 90 it's mnot matter wht mater is that you only provide evidence for one so its only Mig-21 no matter how much insult you are sending toward me unless you provide fact that point to something else.



By your logic, India also did not conduct or miserably failed at Balakot Strike that they claim to have successfully targeted as to date India has provided NO (zero) proof of Balakot Strikes or shooting down F16 Evidence! 

Is that a Yes?

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## Cookie Monster

@Hack-Hook read post 9661 about the circumstances in which F16 was used...F16s were conducting CAPs...they weren't part of the strike package. The strike package consisted of JF17 and Mirages that carried out attacks inside India.

As for u asking for wreckage and proof of Su30 MKI kill...it didn't crash in Pak territory. Therefore no wreckage can be shown. However I do remember seeing a post somewhere by @dbc where he said that according to some reports an IAF Su30 MKI did crash land. Whether or not u believe it is up to u.
Here...I found it...
Operation Swift Retort by Alan Warnes

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## Zowais

We understand that our neighbours are interested only in how many were shotdown. However, we, in Pakistan prefer to differentiate among airliners, friendlies and 'needed to be shotdown' etc. before we press the button. We chose to shoot down two and decided not to go for the rest. Nations fight, win and lose. Hardly, one finds examples in history, a 3 times bigger adversery celebrating how they dodged and fled, deserting their fellows. Those who needed to get the message, received it well on 27/02/20. Alhamdolillah. If one chooses not to understand, we understand.



Hack-Hook said:


> you only claim twobut show evidence of one.
> show us evidence of any second shot down .
> and answer the fact . that you claim you used only JF-17 and Mirage but no F-16 then explain to us AIM-120 part in India.
> 
> and before posting blah, blah , blah check with who you are talking.
> and I don't care how many you could shot down ,9 or 90 it's mnot matter wht mater is that you only provide evidence for one so its only Mig-21 no matter how much insult you are sending toward me unless you provide fact that point to something else.

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## Hack-Hook

alee92nawaz said:


> First of all tell why do you indiots like to pose as white people? Also that amraam is proof enough if you want to believe. Or just believe in the mig 21 kill only. That's enough. You mess with us? We'll hurt you bad. That too in your own airspace and broad daylight. Sit down now.


So you have no proof and resort to insulying .
and that Amraam is not proof of anything , do you knew the part of the Slow TOR-M1 that we fired at Ukrain passenger jet fell how much away from the crash site , now consider how it can be for a fast moving AMRAAM that is at least 3 time faster.



Myth_buster_1 said:


> wtf r u talking about?
> AMRAAM has over 100km range meaning it does not have to enter inside india to shot iaf down.


Did India claimed you enter their airspace , they claimed you shoot their airplane by AIM-120 and F-16 you at first claimed it was JF-17 that it seems later you agreed with Indian version.

by the way how you reach to the conclusion that I said you guys entered Indian Air space ?



ziaulislam said:


> as far as open-source info is, aim doesn't has a self destruct sequence..most AAM don't ..it has to do with missile flight time unpredictability(but I can be wrong)
> 
> there are plenty of eye witnesses, at the site of crash India media personnel asks a Kashmiri whether anything else crashed and he said another fighter jet has crashed near by..


the question , why there is no atelite imagery of that. ? the eye witness may have mistaken something else



ziaulislam said:


> finding an AIM120 so quickly, eyewitness and PAF claim that they have radar data (given PAF had even AWECs in sky with most comprehensive battle view) i would say the odds are really high that su 30 was at least hit by an SU30 with likely crash..


India also provided Radar data of an Pakistani F-16 vanishs from screen that it prove anything at all . do you believe on their claims according to it ?



ziaulislam said:


> regardless the summary PROVEN HARD FACTS of feb FIASCO ARE
> 
> India missed its targets,
> shot down its own mi17,
> its airforce was openly challenged and its sites were bombed,
> lost ATLEAST 1 jet was shotdown and had a POW paraded..
> 
> a total and shameful defeat


I agree to that and their fighting strategy was a total meh , worthy of primary school child planning not a military planner. they were inconsistent , didn't used the assets acoording to situation ,didnt plan well , failed to use surprise element . failed to do even bomving a defenceles building sitting out there . thats really beg for shake down in chain of command



Cookie Monster said:


> They released videos...these were guided bombs...the second pilot in the PAF Mirages were guiding these bombs. If they had the time to guide them near the target(but not on it) then they also had enough time to guide it on to the target itself. The video footage of the bomb's guidance was made public along with google maps imagery to show exactly how it all happened(which is much more than what IAF has provided).


there cn be many reason for that , it may have been just a warning , the equipment could be faulty , the pilot may had to pull out due to enemy fire, ..... , do you have the video that can narrow the posiblities a lot.



Cookie Monster said:


> No Pak was not forced to admit anything. Pak said that no F16s were used in the operation...which is entirely correct. NO F16 WAS USED IN THE *OPERATION*...Operation Swift Retort involved the use of Mirages and JF17 to deliver the package...F16s weren't a part of it. F16s were carrying out CAPs and only got involved once IAF jets were airborne.


they were in the mission , they were not gave the bombing part , they were tasked to protect the bombing planes from enemy fighters. but nevertheless they were part of the operation.



Aliph Ahmed said:


> By your logic, India also did not conduct or miserably failed at Balakot Strike that they claim to have successfully


I already said Indian claims about the bombing and F-16 are just face saving and their performances in planning the operation was at best, what you expect from a primary school kid to plan. they nearly failed in all metrics.



Cookie Monster said:


> As for u asking for wreckage and proof of Su30 MKI kill...it didn't crash in Pak territory. Therefore no wreckage can be shown. However I do remember seeing a post somewhere by @dbc where he said that according to some reports an IAF Su30 MKI did crash land. Whether or not u believe it is up to u.
> Here...I found it...


the question why there is satellite imagery about anything else but non about that Su-30MKI and as you see again no proof provided in that post


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## Cookie Monster

Hack-Hook said:


> there cn be many reason for that , it may have been just a warning , the equipment could be faulty , the pilot may had to pull out due to enemy fire, ..... , do you have the video that can narrow the posiblities a lot.


Dude where have u been? There were threads after threads on this topic...even now it's ongoing...u expect me to dig through to spoonfeed u these things?

Try googling for those videos...and no there were no reasons such as faulty munitions or anything...they were dropped near the targets to send a message that we can light u up any time and day. There was no reason to blow up anything bcuz Indian attacks on Pak's side of the border failed to hit anything...it would've been unnecessary escalation.


Hack-Hook said:


> they were in the mission , they were not gave the bombing part , they were tasked to protect the bombing planes from enemy fighters. but nevertheless they were part of the operation.


They were not part of the strike package...the strike package(consisting of JF17 and Mirages) crossed the LoC into IOK to bomb...F16s were patrolling the Pakistani skies ready to respond to IAF jets if they got airborne.


Hack-Hook said:


> the question why there is satellite imagery about anything else but non about that Su-30MKI and as you see again no proof provided in that post


Do u know how satellite imagery works? It's not like satellites are recording 4K video of every second on every part of the globe. Satellites periodically take pictures of different parts of earth from time to time...therefore u can potentially see things that happen over long term...
...an example would be US being able to see China building artificial islands in South China Sea.

Regardless...I don't really care if u or others here remain unconvinced. Personally I'm also treating it as a claim so far...however I still think that a Su30 MKI was hit(whether it survived and crash landed or got completely destroyed...I don't know)...
...the reasons being...
1) AMRAAM is a potent and proven weapon. Additionally AMRAAM wreckage was shown by IAF...I don't know of any examples where it explodes without having hit the target. So it must've hit something to have exploded like that.
2) PAF had AWACS monitoring the whole situation throughout the operation...Su30 MKI has a huge RCS(especially when it's loaded with weapons). It must've been detected on various radars such as ground radars, F16s/JF17 radars, Erieye AWACS radars...so it makes it highly unlikely that all these radars were "fooled" somehow.
4) PAF was jamming and intercepting IAF radio communications. In addition to seeing what they saw on radar that led them to believe Su30 MKI was downed...they could have heard some radio chatter that further led them to make such a claim.

And last but not least...dbc here has said something along those lines too...that a Su30 MKI was hit...as per some reports(I provided u a link to his post).

So it's very unlikely that u will ever get to see the wreckage since it didn't fall on Pak's side...all one can do is evaluate the credibility of the claim...which is what I have done above...and I'm leaning towards it being likely that a Su30 MKI was shot down.


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## Hack-Hook

Cookie Monster said:


> They were not part of the strike package...the strike package(consisting of JF17 and Mirages) crossed the LoC into IOK to bomb...F16s were patrolling the Pakistani skies ready to respond to IAF jets if they got airborne.


the mission is not just strike package


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## Suriya

Hack-Hook said:


> Do you have any evidence about SU-30MKI ? There is nothing in open source media . do you have any evidence.





Haris Ali2140 said:


> No there is zilch available on Internet or anyone on the forum. Only thing available is an exploded AMRAAM in the hands of Indians. The question is why its proximity fused has gone off???


How many i've to give video of how AMRAAM debris was found went it self exploded and landed on the ground hurting a man and damaging houses near by.


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## Hack-Hook

Cookie Monster said:


> Do u know how satellite imagery works? It's not like satellites are recording 4K video of every second on every part of the globe. Satellites periodically take pictures of different parts of earth from time to time...therefore u can potentially see things that happen over long term...
> ...an example would be US being able to see China building artificial islands in South China Sea.


that specefic places are roughly in hundreds of km size and if you consider several passes (each passess take 60-90 min ) there must be something if its available for mig 21 it must be available for su-30 specially if you consider the fact you can't hide an aircraft crash in minutes ,it would have built a fire considering the amount of fuel a SU-30 can carry and there are far more than just one satellite



Cookie Monster said:


> And last but not least...dbc here has said something along those lines too...that a Su30 MKI was hit...as per some reports(I provided u a link to his post).


the post provided no proof



Cookie Monster said:


> AMRAAM is a potent and proven weapon. Additionally AMRAAM wreckage was shown by IAF...I don't know of any examples where it explodes without having hit the target. So it must've hit something to have exploded like that.


amraam have self destruct capabilities and at least spain had to use that mechanism once when they accidentally fired a missile


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## Suriya

ziaulislam said:


> regardless the summary PROVEN HARD FACTS of feb FIASCO ARE
> 
> India missed its targets,
> shot down its own mi17,
> its airforce was openly challenged and its sites were bombed,
> lost ATLEAST 1 jet was shotdown and had a POW paraded..
> 
> a total and shameful defeat


India didn't miss its targets, that's why the area of cordoned off and off limit for any civil lain for months.
Ammunition used is supposed obliterate the building.

*Reuters report

No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed

https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...chool-that-india-says-it-bombed-idINKCN1QO26W
*
2*. on 26th IAF faced ZERO challenges from PAF while targeting Balakot.
on 27th PAF had to break the Rules of Engagement in peace time an fire AMRAAM at IAF jet who flying inside Indian airspace to prevent them challenging PAF's ground attack 
sorties



*


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## maverick1977

Hack-Hook said:


> that specefic places are roughly in hundreds of km size and if you consider several passes (each passess take 60-90 min ) there must be something if its available for mig 21 it must be available for su-30 specially if you consider the fact you can't hide an aircraft crash in minutes ,it would have built a fire considering the amount of fuel a SU-30 can carry and there are far more than just one satellite
> 
> 
> the post provided no proof
> 
> 
> amraam have self destruct capabilities and at least spain had to use that mechanism once when they accidentally fired a missile




your considerable plume at the crash aite is quite a plausible reason. for example sake, three other reasons can be.. it landed at the airport, damaged, crahsed in inhabitant valley hitting side of a mountain, most likely forested .. thirdly might have jestionned fuel and had crashed while attempted to land .. but for aure it disnt break in mid air, that wouldve been quite open for folks to see ..


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> India didn't miss its targets, that's why the area of cordoned off and off limit for any civil lain for months.
> Ammunition used is supposed obliterate the building.
> 
> *Reuters report
> 
> No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed
> 
> https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...chool-that-india-says-it-bombed-idINKCN1QO26W
> *
> 2*. on 26th IAF faced ZERO challenges from PAF while targeting Balakot.
> on 27th PAF had to break the Rules of Engagement in peace time an fire AMRAAM at IAF jet who flying inside Indian airspace to prevent them challenging PAF's ground attack
> sorties
> 
> 
> *


Very next day BBC reporter went the ground zero and router also provide satellite images that's proves that you miss the targets these pictures already posted in this thread

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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> Very next day BBC reporter went the ground zero and router also provide satellite images that's proves that you miss the targets these pictures already posted in this thread


*MARCH 7, 2019 / 11:00 PM* / *Reuters report

No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed

https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...chool-that-india-says-it-bombed-idINKCN1QO26W*


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## Pakistani Fighter

Hack-Hook said:


> Did India claimed you enter their airspace


I think they did


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> *MARCH 7, 2019 / 11:00 PM* / *Reuters report
> 
> No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed
> 
> https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...chool-that-india-says-it-bombed-idINKCN1QO26W*


Router also reported you miss the target with proofs so???


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## notorious_eagle

Suriya said:


> *MARCH 7, 2019 / 11:00 PM* / *Reuters report
> 
> No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed
> 
> https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...chool-that-india-says-it-bombed-idINKCN1QO26W*



You forgot the other Reuters report little buddy

*Satellite images show buildings still standing at Indian bombing site*
*https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V*

If you personally ask my opinion, it was a deliberate miss by IAF to give face to Pakistan and satisfy the domestic audience. 



Hack-Hook said:


> amraam have self destruct capabilities and at least spain had to use that mechanism once when they accidentally fired a missile



If you look at the AMRAAM that the IAF showed, its fuze was off. The fuze for an AMRAAM only goes off if it hits an aerial target.

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## Ultima Thule

notorious_eagle said:


> You forgot the other Reuters report little buddy
> 
> *Satellite images show buildings still standing at Indian bombing site*
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V*
> 
> If you personally ask my opinion, it was a deliberate miss by IAF to give face to Pakistan and satisfy the domestic audience.
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the AMRAAM that the IAF showed, its fuze was off. The fuze for an AMRAAM only goes off if it hits an aerial target.


It useless sir to convince a guy like @Suriya he insists his fake conspiracy theories again just like he is bringing missing R-73 theories sir

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## PakFactor

seven0seven said:


> It useless sir to convince a guy like @Suriya he insists his fake conspiracy theories again just like he is bringing missing R-73 theories sir



Their just butt hurt they’ve been made a joke.

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## Ultima Thule

notorious_eagle said:


> You forgot the other Reuters report little buddy
> 
> *Satellite images show buildings still standing at Indian bombing site*
> *https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V*


 And then they claim for this they USE penetration warheads so structure remains intact and in other thread they posted the images from IAF that show 3 holes on the roof top of the building by @kongn so i ask him how its possible that 3 900 kg bombs penetrate the structure and building remains intact you know sir what his answers he says that only 70 -80 kg these bombs have to kill the occupants inside so when i asked where rest of explosives goes than @kongn has no answers for me

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## Cookie Monster

Hack-Hook said:


> that specefic places are roughly in hundreds of km size and if you consider several passes (each passess take 60-90 min ) there must be something if its available for mig 21 it must be available for su-30 specially if you consider the fact you can't hide an aircraft crash in minutes ,it would have built a fire considering the amount of fuel a SU-30 can carry and there are far more than just one satellite


You need to look into satellites and how they work.

First not all satellites sent into space are used for imaging earth.

Then there's the orbit...the satellites that are used for imaging are usually in LEO(low earth orbit...about 500km above)...these satellites CANNOT continuously map the same exact spot...since they are in orbit and moving very fast around the earth. A satellite in a geosynchronous orbit at about 42000km can match the same rotation as the earth and therefore continuously have its camera pointed in one spot...however to image something from that distance...the sensors on such a satellite would have to be huge and very high tech.

In conclusion...what u r asking for...
...satellite pictures of an event like an aircraft crash landing...u should build a time machine and go thousands of years into the future to have such a capability where one can request such a thing as if it was a CCTV footage.


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## notorious_eagle

seven0seven said:


> And then they claim for this they USE penetration warheads so structure remains intact and in other thread they posted the images from IAF that show 3 holes on the roof top of the building by @kongn so i ask him how its possible that 3 900 kg bombs penetrate the structure and building remains intact you know sir what his answers he says that only 70 -80 kg these bombs have to kill the occupants inside so when i asked where rest of explosives goes than @kongn has no answers for me



To be honest i don't blame them. If you look at their media and their politicians, the Indian masses were brainwashed into thinking that a clash between India and Pakistan would result in complete domination of Pakistan. There is a reason why they are so obsessed with Israel is because the conditioning off the masses was that India would deliver a result equivalent to what Israel delivers to its opponents, which is complete domination from every angle. This is why egos have been hurt among our Indian friends because they were expecting a very easy victory over Pakistan. 

Go back a few years and look at some of the threads by Indian members. How SU30MKI is the greatest fighter aircraft in the world and only 10 SU30MKI's are enough to complete the destruction of PAF. Part of the reason why the SU30MKI was so hyped up is because it absolutely dominated USAF F15's and F16's during exercises against the USAF. Little did they know, this was on purpose by the USAF. USAF pitted their rookies against the IAF veteran pilots and claimed that they will be mimicking PAF's tactics. But this was just a clever ploy by USAF to study IAF's tactics much more closely.

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## Suriya

PakFactor said:


> Their just butt hurt they’ve been made a joke.


Show me any sign of right side R-73 at the crash site, then i'll accept it otherwise we have all the missile of Mig 21 is a hollow claim.


----------



## Areesh

Suriya said:


> Show me any sign of right side R-73 at the crash site, then i'll accept it otherwise we have all the missile of Mig 21 is a hollow claim.



Hollow claim??

Baisharam insan PAF has shown all 4 missiles to both foreign and local media?

Do you have anything to refute it other than that I don't see one r73 in one of the video I have?

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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> Hollow laim??
> 
> Baisharam insan PAF has shown all 4 missiles to both foreign and local media?
> 
> Do you have anything to refute it other than that I don't see one r73 in one of the video I have?


It doesn't matter PAF has shown all 4 missiles.

What you see at the crime scene aka crash site holds value otherwise there is always scope for alteration of the evidence.

The Brazilian aviation expert also make exact same remark after not finding the Right side missile. He says R-73 shown to the world by pakistan is 'off the shelf'.

US says about F-16 also hold very less value. As a witness US testimony could be partisan as it was US made F-16 and brand name of the company was involved.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> Show me any sign of right side R-73 at the crash site, then i'll accept it otherwise we have all the missile of Mig 21 is a hollow claim.


Shut up and go to BHARAT BAKBAK FORUM AND BLABBER THEIR EVERY THING ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR YOU ALWAYS BRING FAKE CONSPIRACY THEORIES GO HUG THE CACTUS



Suriya said:


> It doesn't matter PAF has shown all 4 missiles.
> 
> What you see at the crime scene aka crash site holds value otherwise there is always scope for alteration of the evidence.
> 
> The Brazilian aviation expert also make exact same remark after not finding the Right side missile. He says R-73 shown to the world by pakistan is 'off the shelf'.
> 
> US says about F-16 also hold very less value. As a witness US testimony could be partisan as it was US made F-16 and brand name of the company was involved.


AND SIMILARLY YOU SHOWED FAKE AMRAAM DEBRIS WHICH PROVED TO BE TAIWANESE AMRAAM AND REPORTING FOR YOUR CRAP AGAIN


----------



## Areesh

Suriya said:


> It doesn't matter PAF has shown all 4 missiles.



Why it doesn't matter? Because a pajeet with low IQ like you say so?



> What you see at the crime scene aka crash site holds value otherwise there is always for scope alteration of the evidence.



Nope there isn't. Not as per the experts



> The Brazilian aviation expert also make exact same remark after not finding the Right side missile. He R-73 shown to the world by pakistan was 'off the shelf'.



That Brazilian expert is nobody. I nfact he had no proof to show that they are "off the shelf" 

That Brazilian "expert" was refuted and rejected on this very forum. Even Indian don't use him



> US says about F-16 also hold very less value. As a witness US testimony could be partisan as it was US made F-16 and brand name of the company was involved.



So what US government that is also very close to India says has no value but a random nobody Brazilian says has 

@xeuss 

Check delusional condition of this pajeet. No wonder modi fools them with ease


----------



## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> Shut up and go to BHARAT BAKBAK FORUM AND BLABBER THEIR EVERY THING ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR YOU ALWAYS BRING FAKE CONSPIRACY THEORIES GO HUG THE CACTUS


I can understand your pain.

Kahan he R-73 ?? Where is my R-73 missile??
It's pylon is completely out of the wing but @Myth_buster_1 excuse it some how the six feet missle in underneath the wing, which is already broken and has hardly any space accommodate a missile of the size R-73.


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## Ultima Thule

@notorious_eagle is this possible we should ban @Suriya at least from this thread thank you


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## ziaulislam

Suriya said:


> India didn't miss its targets, that's why the area of cordoned off and off limit for any civil lain for months.
> Ammunition used is supposed obliterate the building.
> 
> *Reuters report
> 
> No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed
> 
> https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...chool-that-india-says-it-bombed-idINKCN1QO26W
> *
> 2*. on 26th IAF faced ZERO challenges from PAF while targeting Balakot.
> on 27th PAF had to break the Rules of Engagement in peace time an fire AMRAAM at IAF jet who flying inside Indian airspace to prevent them challenging PAF's ground attack
> sorties
> 
> 
> *


there was bigfoot in there that's why it was cordoned off ...satellite images were faked, Europeans are in with it us..they transferred bigfoot over there

the same one India found originally..
https://www.trtworld.com/asia/indian-army-s-yeti-footprint-pictures-spark-online-storm-26281


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> I can understand your pain.
> 
> Kahan he R-73 ?? Where is my R-73 missile??



Donon yeh rahai jani









Tum Mi17 ka blackbox to dikha do jo Kashmirion nai chori kar lia tha


----------



## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> I can understand your pain.
> 
> Kahan he R-73 ?? Where is my R-73 missile??
> It's pylon is completely out of the wing but @Myth_buster_1 excuse it some how the six feet missle in underneath the wing, which is already broken and has hardly any space accommodate a missile of the size R-73.


I already show you evidence of r73 few pages back so go hug the CACTUS


----------



## ziaulislam

Suriya said:


> I can understand your pain.
> 
> Kahan he R-73 ?? Where is my R-73 missile??
> It's pylon is completely out of the wing but @Myth_buster_1 excuse it some how the six feet missle in underneath the wing, which is already broken and has hardly any space accommodate a missile of the size R-73.


next, you would say count the bullets..r73 is within visual range missile...
it would be hard for us to count all the 196 bullets in the cannon


----------



## Suriya

ziaulislam said:


> three was bigfoot in there that's why it was cordoned off ...satellite images were faked, Europeans are in with it us..they transferred bigfoot over there


*Did anybody see a clear satellite images of the building India says it targeted?? Keep in the mind Madrassa wasn't the target.*


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## ziaulislam

a perfect fine missle on burning aircraft would indicate a fake missile, burned missle is what shows ts authentic



Suriya said:


> *Did anybody see a clear satellite images of the building India says it targeted?? Keep in the mind Madrassa wasn't the target.*


i know it was the big foot/YETI ..
*"For the first time, an #IndianArmy Mountaineering Expedition Team has sited (sic) Mysterious Footprints of mythical beast 'Yeti'," it said in a tweet, not explaining how a mythical beast could leave footprints.*




Footprints are seen in the snow near Makalu Base Camp in Nepal, in this picture taken on April 9, 2019 obtained from social media on April 30, 2019. (Reuters)
https://www.trtworld.com/asia/indian-army-s-yeti-footprint-pictures-spark-online-storm-26281


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## xeuss

Areesh said:


> @xeuss
> 
> Check delusional condition of this pajeet. No wonder modi fools them with ease



Lol...ek baar boldo yaar...key F-16 shoot down ho gaya tha.

On second thoughts...don't. Let him writhe with pain.

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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> Donon yeh rahai jani


*Nahi , Yeh R-73 Pakistan ka hai.*


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> *Nahi , Yeh R-73 Pakistan ka hai.*



Sabot do

Bakwas nahi saboot. Serial number sai prove karo



xeuss said:


> Lol...ek baar boldo yaar...key F-16 shoot down ho gaya tha.
> 
> On second thoughts...don't. Let him writhe with pain.



Christine fair maan gayi

Yeh baighairat abhi bhi lagai hoye hain 1 saal baad bhi

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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> *Did anybody see a clear satellite images of the building India says it targeted?? Keep in the mind Madrassa wasn't the target.*


What was the target?

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> *Nahi , Yeh R-73 Pakistan ka hai.*


You can verify it through serial numbers all were in IAF inventory unless you delete these serial numbers from your inventory that you're master of deception and lies


----------



## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> *What was the target?*



*Mujahid Hostel at Balakot*





*



*


----------



## Areesh

Suriya said:


> *Mujahid Hostel at Balakot*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



December 2019


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## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> *Mujahid Hostel at Balakot*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


You what? Grainy commercial sat pics run through paintshop? Get the f**k outta here! These prove nothing! Is that all the proof you a**hats can muster up to back your narrative?


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> *Mujahid Hostel at Balakot*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


 how many times your gov't and IAF change its narratives first you look at the first conference of by your govt and IAF after 26 saying we had destroyed JeM MADARASA CAN I POST YOUTUBE CLIP FOR THAT

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## Areesh

Hey @Suriya

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## xeuss

seven0seven said:


> how many times your gov't and IAF change its narratives first you look at the first conference of by your govt and IAF after 26 saying we had destroyed JeM MADARASA CAN I POST YOUTUBE CLIP FOR THAT



Remember, lying is perfectly normal in the depraved Hindu society

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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> Hey @Suriya


@Myth_buster_1 Samjhau is nadaan ko R-77 parts ko R-73 ka bol raha he.


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## Ultima Thule

Areesh said:


> Hey @Suriya


@Suriya STILL NOT AGREE ON YOU @Suriya IS IN ITS DELUSIONAL STATE SIR



Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 Samjhau is nadaan ko R-77 parts ko R-73 ka bol raha he.


YOUR DELUSIONAL HAS NO CURE


----------



## Side-Winder

Poor Indians - Still trying hard to prove Nandu atleast "fired" a missile, Let alone proving F-16 was shot. The struggle is real

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## Suriya

Side-Winder said:


> Poor Indians - Still trying hard to prove Nandu atleast "fired" a missile, Let alone proving F-16 was shot. The struggle is real


Kahan he mera R-73 missile?


----------



## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 Samjhau is nadaan ko R-77 parts ko R-73 ka bol raha he.


PROVES US THAN ITS A R-77 PARTS YOU'RE MISSILES EXPERT DON'T YOU



Suriya said:


> Kahan he mera R-73 missile?


THEN PROVES US THAT IS R-77 PARTS NOT R-73


----------



## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> *Mujahid Hostel at Balakot*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Seriously @Suriya : Show us *actual pictures* of IAF airstrike damage: like these analysis. Otherwise please keep your wet dreams private.


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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> THEN PROVES US THAT IS R-77 PARTS NOT R-73


You wont believe what i say so just ask @Myth_buster_1 whether they are R73 or R77?


----------



## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> You wont believe what i say so just ask @Myth_buster_1 whether they are R73 or R77?


You claiming that it was not r73. So its your irresponsibility to explain how it was not r-73 give us the explanation that how its not r73


----------



## Bratva

This is what B.S.DHoana has to say about Abhinandan









https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...f-bs-dhanao/story-F951EkysveW1FvD5qvl95L.html


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> You wont believe what i say so just ask @Myth_buster_1 whether they are R73 or R77?


Hi @Suriya we want prove how this wasn't r-73 and i don't know who's @Myth_buster_1 
And don face save behind @Myth_buster_1 back i knew he never said that and you're lying don't you


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 Samjhau is nadaan ko R-77 parts ko R-73 ka bol raha he.



@Myth_buster_1 Bro samjhau is pajeet ko k is k paas koi proof nahi R73 k fake honai ka


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## Side-Winder

Suriya said:


> Kahan he mera R-73 missile?



This question would have been asked by the Russians already if a live missile ends up in PAF Hands from eBay. PAF's invitation is still open as to whoever wants to inspect the missiles.

Nevertheless none of it matters if all F-16s were accounted for by the US.

So Keep trying kiddos to satisfy your inflated superiority complex which was badly hurt by PAF on Feb 27. Surprise for a reason.


By the way, Talking of the evidence at crime scene. Where is the video that proves this AMRAAM was not pulled out of Su-30's fat rear end?

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## Hack-Hook

Cookie Monster said:


> You need to look into satellites and how they work.
> 
> First not all satellites sent into space are used for imaging earth.
> 
> Then there's the orbit...the satellites that are used for imaging are usually in LEO(low earth orbit...about 500km above)...these satellites CANNOT continuously map the same exact spot...since they are in orbit and moving very fast around the earth. A satellite in a geosynchronous orbit at about 42000km can match the same rotation as the earth and therefore continuously have its camera pointed in one spot...however to image something from that distance...the sensors on such a satellite would have to be huge and very high tech.
> 
> In conclusion...what u r asking for...
> ...satellite pictures of an event like an aircraft crash landing...u should build a time machine and go thousands of years into the future to have such a capability where one can request such a thing as if it was a CCTV footage.


there are dozens of satellite that do imaging of earth . so there always is photos of a place +/- several hours .
just look at the list of comercial satellite that provide earth imaging and you see there it is impossible to have a spot on earth that dont get photographed several time a day and thats only comercial sat and not the spy ones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_imagery


----------



## alee92nawaz

Hack-Hook said:


> So you have no proof and resort to insulying .
> and that Amraam is not proof of anything , do you knew the part of the Slow TOR-M1 that we fired at Ukrain passenger jet fell how much away from the crash site , now consider how it can be for a fast moving AMRAAM that is at least 3 time faster.
> 
> 
> Did India claimed you enter their airspace , they claimed you shoot their airplane by AIM-120 and F-16 you at first claimed it was JF-17 that it seems later you agreed with Indian version.
> 
> by the way how you reach to the conclusion that I said you guys entered Indian Air space ?
> 
> 
> the question , why there is no atelite imagery of that. ? the eye witness may have mistaken something else
> 
> 
> India also provided Radar data of an Pakistani F-16 vanishs from screen that it prove anything at all . do you believe on their claims according to it ?
> 
> 
> I agree to that and their fighting strategy was a total meh , worthy of primary school child planning not a military planner. they were inconsistent , didn't used the assets acoording to situation ,didnt plan well , failed to use surprise element . failed to do even bomving a defenceles building sitting out there . thats really beg for shake down in chain of command
> 
> 
> there cn be many reason for that , it may have been just a warning , the equipment could be faulty , the pilot may had to pull out due to enemy fire, ..... , do you have the video that can narrow the posiblities a lot.
> 
> 
> they were in the mission , they were not gave the bombing part , they were tasked to protect the bombing planes from enemy fighters. but nevertheless they were part of the operation.
> 
> 
> I already said Indian claims about the bombing and F-16 are just face saving and their performances in planning the operation was at best, what you expect from a primary school kid to plan. they nearly failed in all metrics.
> 
> 
> the question why there is satellite imagery about anything else but non about that Su-30MKI and as you see again no proof provided in that post


Bhosdi ke ye bta Mirage 3 india ghuss k zinda kese wapas agia? Even mig 21 could have killed it. Yar ajeeb jahil behas kr raha hy gadha. SU-30 wasn't good enough and neither was your airforce when it mattered. STFU.


----------



## Ultima Thule

alee92nawaz said:


> Bhosdi ke ye bta Mirage 3 india ghuss k zinda kese wapas agia? Even mig 21 could have killed it. Yar ajeeb jahil behas kr raha hy gadha. SU-30 wasn't good enough and neither was your airforce when it mattered. STFU.


He is not pakistani and don't understand Urdu bro talk him in English

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## alee92nawaz

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 Samjhau is nadaan ko R-77 parts ko R-73 ka bol raha he.


Samjhao in gadhon ko. Inko abhi bh F-16 kill ka yaqeen hy. Kher in logo ne Hassan Siddiqui ko bh mar dia tha or Multan me 2 jf-17 bh gira diye thy to kuch bh soch skte hein.



seven0seven said:


> He is not pakistani and don't understand Urdu bro talk him in English


I think we should ignore him..let him blabber


----------



## Ultima Thule

alee92nawaz said:


> think we should ignore him..let him blabber


Yes wasting your time bro in fact he is Iranian so bro look on whoms which are you talking with as a Iranian he always take a side of Indians

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## Hack-Hook

alee92nawaz said:


> Bhosdi ke ye bta Mirage 3 india ghuss k zinda kese wapas agia? Even mig 21 could have killed it. Yar ajeeb jahil behas kr raha hy gadha. SU-30 wasn't good enough and neither was your airforce when it mattered. STFU.


you guys never did anything to our airforce , what are you talking about . we never had any SU-30 in our arsenal to be worried about them. and wonder why you don't talk in a language I understand .
wonder why members from pakistan don't bother check the flags . for Gods sake I used the same flags since 8 year ago that I joined the Forum , wonder does it really look like Indian flag


----------



## Myth_buster_1

@Suriya 

this indiot goes from one thread to another with his same BS while ignoring all facts that is thrown at his face.



Suriya said:


> Fully intact R-77 is also visible in this video lying near its pylon-1.
> 
> R-77: Go to 0.08



What you see is only control section of R-77 but you can not see rest of the parts such as laser proximity fuse, warhead, and tail motor sections which are somewhere under the wreckage.


> Also see the R-73 pylon at 0.05, its completely out of the wing and not a whiff of R-73 missile
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Dumb@ss its a crash site not a airshow static display! Not all missiles are going to be visible.


> Pakistan has access to enough R-73 missiles through either of it's own from Afghan conflict or through friends.


Afghanistan? Do you have your brain in your @ss? PLAAF uses slightly different variant of R-73 and Pakistan obtaining such a weapon from any country will be a violation of contract between Russia and R-73 supplier.
and when are you going to shove 13 digits serial in sameer joshi's rear end so he can do his snake charm to find out if it belongs to IAF inventory.


> IAF has seen these numbers and that's why it gave a Veer Chakra to Abhinandan.


You can give as many veer chakahs as you want but it does not change the reality which is abhiNoneDone did not fire a single missile. Also Why would India allow IAF female officer to interview with media and hide abhi? thats because he is keeping his words that he will not lie when he returns back to india. thats a good boy.


> IAF used Spice2000 guidance kit kit and small amount of explosive which explain why the building wasn't completely destroyed.


Dumb@ss the kit goes along with MK-84 and their is NO MK-84 in the world which has less TNT then what it is built with.


> Also you see when Spice2000 are used for penetration of hardened roofs, damage looks something like this from above.


dumb@ss that penetration is due to training round without TNT.

Here is a video of Spice-2000 in action. notice that at 7:15 mark a harden structure is obliterated. Also the structure sitting on balakot has a tin roof.







> Ok, this video is of people living very close to LoC in Jammu. At these places, if a jet flies in Pakistani airspace, even then they can spot it easily. Its also true Pakistan dropped bombs close to LoC and many of them went unexploded.


dumb@ss its this strike which was on LOC







> https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-jammu-and-kashmir-mendhar-1492389-2019-04-02


Yeah, anything is possible in Indian imagination.



Suriya said:


> *Mujahid Hostel at Balakot*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



wtf is this sh1t?

almost every tin roof in pakistan has some sort of imperfection due to weathering, construction, etc and these indiots are expecting neat and clean roof.

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## Khanivore

Myth_buster_1 said:


> @Suriya
> wtf is this sh1t?
> 
> almost every tin roof in pakistan has some sort of imperfection due to weathering, construction, etc and these indiots are expecting neat and clean roof.


Maybe the Indians think buildings in Pakistani Kashmir are of traditional Swiss architecture, where their missiles/bombs can make a "pinpoint accurate" airstrike by drilling a tiny hole in the roof of the building, penetrate and explode inside, leaving the entire building intact. By the way, that weapon is "classified."


----------



## Suriya

Khanivore said:


> Maybe the Indians think buildings in Pakistani Kashmir are of traditional Swiss architecture, where their missiles/bombs can make a "pinpoint accurate" airstrike by drilling a tiny hole in the roof of the building, penetrate and explode inside, leaving the entire building intact. By the way, that weapon is "classified."


@Myth_buster_1 @notorious_eagle 

From people who have seen classified 30 cm high resolution multi spectral and the synthetic aperture radar (SAR) image


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180100649721061376


----------



## Khanivore

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 @notorious_eagle
> 
> From people who have seen classified 30 cm high resolution multi spectral and the synthetic aperture radar (SAR) image
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180100649721061376


How can you be taken seriously with this few pixel dotted nonsense? Seriously, how old are you? What a joke!


----------



## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 @notorious_eagle
> 
> From people who have seen classified 30 cm high resolution multi spectral and the synthetic aperture radar (SAR) image
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180100649721061376


And didn't deform the structure you fool you penetrated 3 900 kg bombs and building remains intact is this some Vedic technology you indiot

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 @notorious_eagle
> 
> From people who have seen classified 30 cm high resolution multi spectral and the synthetic aperture radar (SAR) image
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180100649721061376



almost every indiot quotes sameer joshi kiya ya tum sab logo ka maa ka yaar hai?

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## El Sidd

Hack-Hook said:


> you guys never did anything to our airforce , what are you talking about . we never had any SU-30 in our arsenal to be worried about them. and wonder why you don't talk in a language I understand .
> wonder why members from pakistan don't bother check the flags . for Gods sake I used the same flags since 8 year ago that I joined the Forum , wonder does it really look like Indian flag



flat earthers exist in every country too.


----------



## Side-Winder

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 @notorious_eagle
> 
> From people who have seen classified 30 cm high resolution multi spectral and the synthetic aperture radar (SAR) image
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180100649721061376



Funny thing, The very source of the photo made this headline 

*"PAKISTAN: Satellite Imagery confirms India missed target in Pakistan airstrike"*

*https://www.euspaceimaging.com/paki...ms-india-missed-target-in-pakistan-airstrike/*








3x Spice bombs penerate the building size of 15x15 m by creating flat holes 1 meter each and structure still remains intact 

Mmmmmmuuuuaaahhhhhh -- Such desperation

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## Suriya

@Side-Winder @notorious_eagle @seven0seven 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180092216057839616


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## Side-Winder

Suriya said:


> @Side-Winder @notorious_eagle @seven0seven
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180092216057839616



Stop Spamming. Your bubble already bursted here

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-649#post-12264770


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Side-Winder said:


> Stop Spamming. Your bubble already bursted here
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-649#post-12264770



its busted everyday and some how he has the nerve to continue with his BS.


----------



## Suriya

Side-Winder said:


> Stop Spamming. You bubble already bursted here
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-649#post-12264770


Selected Indian journalists were shown SAR images of target site impacted in Balakot strike, accessed from Israel.They weren't made public as these were classified images accessed from a foreign country.

Btw *Vishu Som is from ND tv *which is founded by congress party hence if there was slightest of discrepancy it would have been breaking news on ND tv and would hv badly affected Modi's reelection chances.


----------



## ziaulislam

Suriya said:


> @Side-Winder @notorious_eagle @seven0seven
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180092216057839616


Talk about collective mental retardation !

First big foot than this..whats next

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## Khanivore

This *Suriya* guy is spamming nonsense in this thread, his posts need to be moderated.


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## Haris Ali2140

ziaulislam said:


> Talk about collective mental retardation !
> 
> First big foot than this..whats next


There was a yeti too.


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## Side-Winder

Suriya said:


> Selected Indian journalists were shown SAR images of target site impacted in Balakot strike, accessed from Israel.They weren't made public as these were classified images accessed from a foreign country.
> 
> Btw *Vishu Som is from ND tv *which is founded by congress party hence if there was slightest of discrepancy it would have been breaking news on ND tv and would hv badly affected Modi's reelection chances.




Anddd here we go - Back to Indian fairy tales.
I am outta here, @ Pakistani fellows, Leave this despo alone please

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## ziaulislam

Bratva said:


> This is what B.S.DHoana has to say about Abhinandan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...f-bs-dhanao/story-F951EkysveW1FvD5qvl95L.html


Wait...they are claiming a within visual range kill


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> Selected Indian journalists were shown SAR images of target site impacted in Balakot strike, accessed from Israel.They weren't made public as these were classified images accessed from a foreign country.







ziaulislam said:


> Wait...they are claiming a within visual range kill



Yup

They think F16 would come within WVR range of a Mig21 and then there pilot who lost contact with home base and had no idea whether he was in India or Pakistan managed to shot F16 down


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> @Side-Winder @notorious_eagle @seven0seven
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180092216057839616


Where is the deforestation tell me you indiot



Suriya said:


> Selected Indian journalists were shown SAR images of target site impacted in Balakot strike, accessed from Israel.They weren't made public as these were classified images accessed from a foreign country.
> 
> Btw *Vishu Som is from ND tv *which is founded by congress party hence if there was slightest of discrepancy it would have been breaking news on ND tv and would hv badly affected Modi's reelection chances.


Stupid as a hell


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## ziaulislam

Areesh said:


> Yup
> 
> They think F16 would come within WVR range of a Mig21 and then there pilot who lost contact with home base and had no idea whether he was in India or Pakistan managed to shot F16 down


but then there are also saying Abhi wouldn't know..so what kind within visual range kill is that..



seven0seven said:


> Where is the deforestation tell me you indiot
> 
> 
> Stupid as a hell


well the world, Indian agencies know it...and someone whose IQ is above 70..rest who cares..the more ti think about it it seems its diversion from su 30 kill...that seem s now very likley..even though i was skeptic before


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## Areesh

ziaulislam said:


> but then there are also saying Abhi wouldn't know..so what kind within visual range kill is that..



only Bharati pajeets know this mystery


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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

R-73 has a range of 30 km so visual is not needed.


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## Areesh

IAF Meteor missile said:


> R-73 has a range of 30 km so visual is not needed.



But then Bull Sh!t Dhanoa also said even Abhinandan doesn't know that he shot down a F16

Jhoot k paon nahi hotai


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## Ultima Thule

IAF Meteor missile said:


> R-73 has a range of 30 km so visual is not needed.


And abhi fired blindly.


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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Areesh said:


> But then Bull Sh!t Dhanoa also said even Abhinandan doesn't know that he shot down a F16
> 
> Jhoot k paon nahi hotai


It was 30 km away.
Can you see 30 km away????

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## Areesh

IAF Meteor missile said:


> It was 30 km away.
> Can you see 30 km away????



I need a perfectly working aircraft to shoot down something 30 km away

Poor Abhi had none


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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Areesh said:


> I need a perfectly working aircraft to shoot down something 30 km away
> 
> Poor Abhi had none


Except may be comms, everything was working even you know that


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## Ultima Thule

IAF Meteor missile said:


> It was 30 km away.
> Can you see 30 km away????


So abbhi fired r-73 blindly without knowing where is the enemy???


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## Areesh

IAF Meteor missile said:


> Except may be comms, everything was working even you know that



Not enough for a beast like F16 that was coercing IAF MKI to just dodge but don't even think about firing back a single missile


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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

seven0seven said:


> So abbhi fired r-73 blindly without knowing where is the enemy???


He had radar to detect and shoot but radar did not have NCTE mode.


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## Areesh

IAF Meteor missile said:


> He had radar to detect and shoot but radar did not have NCTE mode.



Not enough for F16

Another proof to deny IAF story of F16 shot down


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## Ultima Thule

IAF Meteor missile said:


> He had radar to detect and shoot but radar did not have NCTE mode.


And our block 52 or block 40 has a range of 300 150 km respectively how your mig21 remains undetected by our f16 is your Vedic mig21 has a cloaking device go hug the CACTUS


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## Suriya

Areesh said:


> Not enough for a beast like F16 that was coercing IAF MKI to just dodge but don't even think about firing back a single missile





seven0seven said:


> And our block 52 or block 40 has a range of 300 150 km respectively how your mig21 remains undetected by our f16 is your Vedic mig21 has a cloaking device go hug the CACTUS


His aircraft was shadowed by the Pir Panjal mountain range till he gained enough height to come under radars of your f16s. There was an inherent chance that he would be shot down once he is detected as he locks on his target. He took that chance. In the process he shot a PAF jet before F-16s caps flying in the hinter took him out within seconds after it.


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> His aircraft was shadowed by the Pir Panjal mountain range till he gained enough height to come under radars of your f16s. There was an inherent chance that he would be shot down once he is detected as he locks on his target. He took that chance. In the process he shot a PAF jet before F-16s caps flying in the hinter took him out within seconds after it.



Things like that happen in bollywood. Not in reality where F16 can track and shoot down Mig 21 with Mig pilot not knowing what hit him

Exactly what happened on 27 Feb 2019


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> His aircraft was shadowed by the Pir Panjal mountain range till he gained enough height to come under radars of your f16s. There was an inherent chance that he would be shot down once he is detected as he locks on his target. He took that chance. In the process he shot a PAF jet before F-16s caps flying in the hinter took him out within seconds after it.


wow just wow so our f-16 were, and your mig-21 radar range is 50-70 km so who detect first the opponents tell me that you indiot


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## Myth_buster_1

IAF Meteor missile said:


> It was 30 km away.
> Can you see 30 km away????


just from where do you guys get these kind of stupid information?
What happend to theory that both f-16 and mig-21 were shot down in the same area and now it move to 30+km away? also at 30KM range it is not a dogfight and that is opposite of IAF narrative. 30 KM south from abi crash site is closer to populated area where it gets IMPOSSIBLE to hide a wreckage specially from an area where their is freedom to record military unlike Indian occupied kashmir where their is certain death! 
Btw every AAM has a burn out time which is 5-15 seconds and after that it loses its energy specially when climbing. Every missile fired at max range will always fail to hit a target that is moving away from it.

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## SipahSalar

Suriya said:


> His aircraft was shadowed by the Pir Panjal mountain range till he gained enough height to come under radars of your f16s. There was an inherent chance that he would be shot down once he is detected as he locks on his target. He took that chance. In the process he shot a PAF jet before F-16s caps flying in the hinter took him out within seconds after it.


Actually that was his plan but he did not account for the AWACs in the air which could see him clear as day and he ended up getting shot. As for an F-16 being shot down. LOL. No one believes it but Indians.


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## Myth_buster_1

seven0seven said:


> wow just wow so our f-16 were, and your mig-21 radar range is 50-70 km so who detect first the opponents tell me that you indiot


this is how abhi shot down f-16
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-s...=700:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto

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## Ultima Thule

Myth_buster_1 said:


> this is how abhi shot down f-16
> https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-s...=700:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto

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## Areesh

Myth_buster_1 said:


> just from where do you guys get these kind of stupid information?
> What happend to theory that both f-16 and mig-21 were shot down in the same area and now it move to 30+km away? also at 30KM range it is not a dogfight and that is opposite of IAF narrative. 30 KM south from abi crash site is closer to populated area where it gets IMPOSSIBLE to hide a wreckage specially from an area where their is freedom to record military unlike Indian occupied kashmir where their is certain death!
> Btw every AAM has a burn out time which is 5-15 seconds and after that it loses its energy specially when climbing. Every missile fired at max range will always fail to hit a target that is moving away from it.



30 Km away would have meant F16 getting shot right in a populated city of AJK or at least border of AJK And Pakistan

Also even a R73 travelling that far and falling in that area would have witnesses even if doesn't result in shooting down of F16 since area is that populated

These bharatis with their baseless lies. Getting debunked on each of them

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## Suriya

seven0seven said:


> wow just wow so our f-16 were, and your mig-21 radar range is 50-70 km so who detect first the opponents tell me that you indiot


He took down one of those PAF jets flying near the LoC escorting ground attack sorties who had little time to react to Mig21 raising out of the shadow of Pir panjal range, while the F-16 that shot Mig 21 down was part a different of set of jets flying CAP mission positioned away from LoC.


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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> He took down one of those PAF jets flying near the LoC escorting ground attack sorties who had little time to react to Mig21 raising out of the shadow of Pir panjal range, while the F-16 that shot Mig 21 down was part a different of set of jets flying CAP mission positioned away from LoC.


shut the F!_!ck up u annoying piece of sh1t!


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## Areesh

Suriya said:


> He took down one of those PAF jets flying near the LoC escorting ground attack sorties who had little time to react to Mig21 raising out of the shadow of Pir panjal range, while the F-16 that shot Mig 21 down was part a different of set of jets flying CAP mission positioned away from LoC.



So it was not 30 km away as multiple ID rat @IAF Meteor missile said?

It is time you both bharati pajeets come up with one story so that we can debunk it. Why don't have a consensus among yourself?


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## Myth_buster_1

Areesh said:


> So it was not 30 km away as multiple ID rat @IAF Meteor missile said?
> 
> It is time you both bharati pajeets come up with one story so that we can debunk it. Why don't have a consensus among yourself?



yes it was but it was also 30km away. now figure it out how that happened.

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## Areesh

Myth_buster_1 said:


> yes it was but it was also 30km away. now figure it out how that happened.



It was so close to LOC that people on other side of LOC saw it getting shot but it was also 30 KM away

Bharati pajeets can't come up with a story that doesn't have more holes than Swiss cheese

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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> He took down one of those PAF jets flying near the LoC escorting ground attack sorties who had little time to react to Mig21 raising out of the shadow of Pir panjal range, while the F-16 that shot Mig 21 down was part a different of set of jets flying CAP mission positioned away from LoC.


 YOU HAVE BASELESS ASSUMPTIONS, WEREN'T ERI EYE WAS IN THE AREA THERE THAT ABLE TO DETECT YOUR MIG-21 EARLIER AND INFORM OUR F-16 THAT THREAT IS COMING TOWARD YOU, HOW STUPID YOU'RE


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## Areesh

seven0seven said:


> YOU HAVE BASELESS ASSUMPTIONS, WEREN'T ERI EYE WAS IN THE AREA THERE THAT ABLE TO DETECT YOUR MIG-21 EARLIER AND INFORM OUR F-16 THAT THREAT IS COMING TOWARD YOU, HOW STUPID YOU'RE



Pir Panjal Mountains were able to hide Mig 21 from all PAF radars whether they were AWACS or F16 radar or ground based radars 

Power of Pir Panjal

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## Ultima Thule

Areesh said:


> Pir Panjal Mountains were able to hide Mig 21 from all PAF radars whether they were AWACS or F16 radar or ground based radars
> 
> Power of Pir Panjal


or have a vedic cloaking device, so it can be hide from all Pakistani radar sir

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## Hack-Hook

wonder when you guys want to stop this nonsense about SU-30mki or F-16 or Bombing that building . these things didn't happened and they are just claims without any evidence.
while the helicopter incident or Mig-21 or bombing the nature incident happened and are real so why don't you guys just stick to them.


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## Ultima Thule

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder when you guys want to stop this nonsense about SU-30mki or F-16 or Bombing that building . these things didn't happened and they are just claims without any evidence.
> while the helicopter incident or Mig-21 or bombing the nature incident happened and are real so why don't you guys just stick to them.


bombing were miss its target, there were satellite images from international news papers like router BBC, new york times,ESA (EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY) that IAF miss the target


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## Hack-Hook

seven0seven said:


> bombing were miss its target, there were satellite images from international news papers like router BBC, new york times,ESA (EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY) that IAF miss the target


As I said the bombing was just hitting the nature not the actual target but I still see people discussing it.


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## Ultima Thule

Hack-Hook said:


> As I said the bombing was just hitting the nature not the actual target but I still see people discussing it.


BUT YOUR INDIAN FRIENDS INSIST THAT THAT THEY HIT THE TARGET


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## Hack-Hook

seven0seven said:


> BUT YOUR INDIAN FRIENDS INSIST THAT THAT THEY HIT THE TARGET


and my Pakistani friend insist they shotdown a su-30mki non of those happened


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## Ultima Thule

Hack-Hook said:


> and my Pakistani friend insist they shotdown a su-30mki non of those happened


Both f16 and MKI showdown is in fog of war


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## Hack-Hook

seven0seven said:


> Both f16 and MKI showdown is in fog of war


Let be honest, I see no fog here . nor you neither them could have hidden such thing as shot down of one of your airplanes. and not any airplane your best airplane.


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## Path-Finder

Myth_buster_1 said:


> @Suriya
> 
> this indiot goes from one thread to another with his same BS while ignoring all facts that is thrown at his face.
> 
> 
> 
> What you see is only control section of R-77 but you can not see rest of the parts such as laser proximity fuse, warhead, and tail motor sections which are somewhere under the wreckage.
> 
> Dumb@ss its a crash site not a airshow static display! Not all missiles are going to be visible.
> 
> Afghanistan? Do you have your brain in your @ss? PLAAF uses slightly different variant of R-73 and Pakistan obtaining such a weapon from any country will be a violation of contract between Russia and R-73 supplier.
> and when are you going to shove 13 digits serial in sameer joshi's rear end so he can do his snake charm to find out if it belongs to IAF inventory.
> 
> You can give as many veer chakahs as you want but it does not change the reality which is abhiNoneDone did not fire a single missile. Also Why would India allow IAF female officer to interview with media and hide abhi? thats because he is keeping his words that he will not lie when he returns back to india. thats a good boy.
> 
> Dumb@ss the kit goes along with MK-84 and their is NO MK-84 in the world which has less TNT then what it is built with.
> 
> dumb@ss that penetration is due to training round without TNT.
> 
> Here is a video of Spice-2000 in action. notice that at 7:15 mark a harden structure is obliterated. Also the structure sitting on balakot has a tin roof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dumb@ss its this strike which was on LOC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, anything is possible in Indian imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> wtf is this sh1t?
> 
> almost every tin roof in pakistan has some sort of imperfection due to weathering, construction, etc and these indiots are expecting neat and clean roof.





Side-Winder said:


> Funny thing, The very source of the photo made this headline
> 
> *"PAKISTAN: Satellite Imagery confirms India missed target in Pakistan airstrike"*
> 
> *https://www.euspaceimaging.com/paki...ms-india-missed-target-in-pakistan-airstrike/*
> 
> View attachment 626648
> 
> 
> 
> 3x Spice bombs penerate the building size of 15x15 m by creating flat holes 1 meter each and structure still remains intact
> 
> Mmmmmmuuuuaaahhhhhh -- Such desperation



the video of spice bumb has one thing in common and that is video data link! when will vedicks show the footage of it?



Hack-Hook said:


> Let be honest, I see no fog here . nor you neither them could have hidden such thing as shot down of one of your airplanes. and not any airplane your best airplane.


and you have a horse in this race how?


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## Mrc

Suriya said:


> @Myth_buster_1 @notorious_eagle
> 
> From people who have seen classified 30 cm high resolution multi spectral and the synthetic aperture radar (SAR) image
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180100649721061376





This picture is a joke

A bomb released from high will achieve high terminal speed and velocity alone will leave visible damage not 3 perfect holes 

Explosion from inside of even few pounds of explosive shud rip apart brick walls and likely make the roof to cave in 

3 bombs even blanks will cause severe damage to roof 

And how in world u will put 3 bombs on same spot and not cause any visible damage? Plus why would you do that??
Take explosives out of bombs but than put 3 on same building? Why not one with explosives?

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## Falcon26

Mrc said:


> This picture is a joke
> 
> A bomb released from high will achieve high terminal speed and velocity alone will leave visible damage not 3 perfect holes
> 
> Explosion from inside of even few pounds of explosive shud rip apart brick walls and likely make the roof to cave in
> 
> 3 bombs even blanks will cause severe damage to roof
> 
> And how in world u will put 3 bombs on same spot and not cause any visible damage? Plus why would you do that??
> Take explosives out of bombs but than put 3 on same building? Why not one with explosives?



Neutral experts have concluded that “dark holes” were in fact passing clouds lol the Indians continue to embarrass themselves

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## Safriz

Mrc said:


> This picture is a joke
> 
> A bomb released from high will achieve high terminal speed and velocity alone will leave visible damage not 3 perfect holes
> 
> Explosion from inside of even few pounds of explosive shud rip apart brick walls and likely make the roof to cave in
> 
> 3 bombs even blanks will cause severe damage to roof
> 
> And how in world u will put 3 bombs on same spot and not cause any visible damage? Plus why would you do that??
> Take explosives out of bombs but than put 3 on same building? Why not one with explosives?


For Indians Crayon drwan lines is evidence that India shot down Pakistani F-16 and a blurry picture with 3 black dots is proof of successful strike. But HD quality pics and videos of fallen trees and bomb craters is not a proof that their bombs missed the target.
Sometimes i pity the Indians

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## Myth_buster_1

Mrc said:


> This picture is a joke
> 
> A bomb released from high will achieve high terminal speed and velocity alone will leave visible damage not 3 perfect holes
> 
> Explosion from inside of even few pounds of explosive shud rip apart brick walls and likely make the roof to cave in
> 
> 3 bombs even blanks will cause severe damage to roof
> 
> And how in world u will put 3 bombs on same spot and not cause any visible damage? Plus why would you do that??
> Take explosives out of bombs but than put 3 on same building? Why not one with explosives?



here watch this video. see what happens to a structure with tin roof sitting on top of a bunker when it is hit with a happy meal.


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## Khanivore

I've reported @Suriya
I'd suggest you all report him for his ridiculous posts


Suriya said:


> *Budgam is more than 200 KM away from LoC.
> Does PAF has missile that can hit a jet flying more than 200KM away from the LoC?? *


So, do you still believe Budgam crash site is 200km from LoC where the encounter took place?



Myth_buster_1 said:


> here watch this video. see what happens to a structure with tin roof sitting on top of a bunker when it is hit with a happy meal.


That's too much for @Suriya to fathom. Don't make him self-implode. 



Hack-Hook said:


> Let be honest, I see no fog here . nor you neither them could have hidden such thing as shot down of one of your airplanes. and not any airplane your best airplane.


Quick question: Is Rahul "The Chihuahua" Kanwal, news anchor reading off of a teleprompter in Martian language here to you or in a much familiar language we all can understand? By all means go ahead and defend him. Make excuses.

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## Mrc

Myth_buster_1 said:


> here watch this video. see what happens to a structure with tin roof sitting on top of a bunker when it is hit with a happy meal.




Thats 500 lb hitting re inforced concrete bunkers

Here we are talking about 3 1000 lb bombs hitting brick wall structure of a madrassa

No way that structure can with stand even the impact without explosion even

Its beyond insanity to believe in such blatant lie


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## Hack-Hook

Path-Finder said:


> the video of spice bumb has one thing in common and that is video data link! when will vedicks show the footage of it?
> 
> 
> and you have a horse in this race how?


I didn't care , somebody mentioned it in an unrelated thread about Iran army and when I began to discussit there , he suggestwe contine it here so I'm here



Mrc said:


> A bomb released from high will achieve high terminal speed and velocity alone will leave visible damage not 3 perfect holes


depends on the bomb , some bombs are designed to descend in a controlled speed no matter how high you release them, but you expectthe bomb result in the destroction of the what hold the roof and its fall . now if it was small bombs used in drones that something else but a bomb released from a fighting plane is another beast



Khanivore said:


> I've reported @Suriya
> I'd suggest you all report him for his ridiculous posts
> 
> So, do you still believe Budgam crash site is 200km from LoC where the encounter took place?
> 
> 
> That's too much for @Suriya to fathom. Don't make him self-implode.
> 
> 
> Quick question: Is Rahul "The Chihuahua" Kanwal, news anchor reading off of a teleprompter in Martian language here to you or in a much familiar language we all can understand? By all means go ahead and defend him. Make excuses.


and in front of him is written pakistan F-16 shotdown 3km inside pakistan , Do I believe that also.
he is citicized for many thing including simulating an skirmish between CRPF and Naxal insurgents in his TV show. and here he provide no proof


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## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> and in front of him is written pakistan F-16 shotdown 3km inside pakistan , Do I believe that also.
> he is citicized for many thing including simulating an skirmish between CRPF and Naxal insurgents in his TV show. and here he provide no proof


Your argument is exactly what another Indian guy said when this clip was out on 27 Feb '19, i.e. screw what the anchor is saying, just believe what some idiot wrote for overlays instead!  How convenient just to satisfy yourself into believing a lie.  By the way, for an Iranian, you make great India phraand. How's Iran treating you over there? Must be crazy with that crazy COVID-19 outbreak.


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## Path-Finder

Hack-Hook said:


> I didn't care , somebody mentioned it in an unrelated thread about Iran army and when I began to discussit there , he suggestwe contine it here so I'm here


hmmn, not sure what or for who you are arguing for.



Khanivore said:


> Your argument is exactly what another Indian guy said when this clip was out on 27 Feb '19, i.e. screw what the anchor is saying, just believe what some idiot wrote for overlays instead!  How convenient just to satisfy yourself into believing a lie.  By the way, for an Iranian, you make great India phraand. How's Iran treating you over there? Must be crazy with that crazy COVID-19 outbreak.


wait is it an indian?


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## Khanivore

Path-Finder said:


> wait is it an indian?


Sounds like one.


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## Path-Finder

Khanivore said:


> Sounds like one.


it certainly is following on the path of one.


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## alee92nawaz

Hack-Hook said:


> you guys never did anything to our airforce , what are you talking about . we never had any SU-30 in our arsenal to be worried about them. and wonder why you don't talk in a language I understand .
> wonder why members from pakistan don't bother check the flags . for Gods sake I used the same flags since 8 year ago that I joined the Forum , wonder does it really look like Indian flag


So you are an Iranian joker. Say hi to the dead maestro for me.



Hack-Hook said:


> you guys never did anything to our airforce , what are you talking about . we never had any SU-30 in our arsenal to be worried about them. and wonder why you don't talk in a language I understand .
> wonder why members from pakistan don't bother check the flags . for Gods sake I used the same flags since 8 year ago that I joined the Forum , wonder does it really look like Indian flag


Even if Iranian airforce acquires SU-35 or SU-57, we still won't have anything to worry about


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## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> Your argument is exactly what another Indian guy said when this clip was out on 27 Feb '19, i.e. screw what the anchor is saying, just believe what some idiot wrote for overlays instead!  How convenient just to satisfy yourself into believing a lie.  By the way, for an Iranian, you make great India phraand. How's Iran treating you over there? Must be crazy with that crazy COVID-19 outbreak.


did anchor provide evidence , how many time anchors in Indian or Pakistan or anyplace else talked nonsense. and show me evidence instead of these nonsense about Indian or anchor or .....



alee92nawaz said:


> So you are an Iranian joker. Say hi to the dead maestro for me.
> 
> 
> Even if Iranian airforce acquires SU-35 or SU-57, we still won't have anything to worry about


whatever as if we are intrested in those airplanes. and you guys are funy I ask show me evidence of Su-30 shot down and you are boasting your airforce is more advanced than ours as if I discuss that.
childish indeed childish


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## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> did anchor provide evidence , how many time anchors in Indian or Pakistan or anyplace else talked nonsense. and show me evidence instead of these nonsense about Indian or anchor or .....



What I gave you are spoken words, clearly admitting Su-30MKI kill. Call it accidental slip of the tongue because it got accidentally left on the news Teleprompter before the sudden change to *Bollywood script*. 



> whatever as if we are intrested in those airplanes. and you guys are funy I ask show me evidence of Su-30 shot down and you are boasting your airforce is more advanced than ours as if I discuss that.
> childish indeed childish


Not only are PAF sure they shot down an Su-30MKI inside IoJK but listen to what Alan Warnes said about it:

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## Safriz

Oh shut up.
These were veydic technology bombs invented 5000 years ago by Yindu Maharaj.
They only make holes in the roof then go inside the building with talwaar and stab them.


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## TsAr

Suriya said:


> His aircraft was shadowed by the Pir Panjal mountain range till he gained enough height to come under radars of your f16s. There was an inherent chance that he would be shot down once he is detected as he locks on his target. He took that chance. In the process he shot a PAF jet before F-16s caps flying in the hinter took him out within seconds after it.


his aircraft was below the pir panjal range, he locked on the F-16 and his missile flew between the range hit the f-16...hmmmmmm


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## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> What I gave you are spoken words, clearly admitting Su-30MKI kill. Call it accidental slip of the tongue because it got accidentally left on the news Teleprompter before the sudden change to *Bollywood script*.
> 
> 
> Not only are PAF sure they shot down an Su-30MKI inside IoJK but listen to what Alan Warnes said about it:


again no evidence provided about SU-30MKI


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## Path-Finder

Hack-Hook said:


> again no evidence provided about SU-30MKI


why not count them for us?


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## Ultima Thule

Hack-Hook said:


> again no evidence provided about SU-30MKI


So they haven't also the evidence of our f16 shot down get it


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## Hack-Hook

seven0seven said:


> So they haven't also the evidence of our f16 shot down get it


I already said that F-16 shot down is also a myth just like Su-30mki shotdown , just like bombing that school


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## Ultima Thule

Hack-Hook said:


> I already said that F-16 shot down is also a myth just like Su-30mki shotdown , just like bombing that school


So why you're here if you believe both in fog of war just leave for us now to debate with Indians

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## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> again no evidence provided about SU-30MKI


Might want to ask the Indian air force why they need 12 Su-30MKI replacements immediately to cover losses. 

Hindustan Times (20 JAN 2020) says, _"*A total of 12 Su-30 jets have crashed since the fighter jets were inducted.* The IAF is likely to place an order for 12 more jets to make up for the losses."_

And indeed, _*as reported on 31 MAR 2020*_, they're looking to order 12 replacements: “We are moving towards ordering 12 more Sukhoi-30s... 12 is what is being followed up straightaway.”


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## Ultima Thule

Khanivore said:


> Might want to ask the Indian air force why they need 12 Su-30MKI replacements immediately to cover losses.


Leave him bro he don't want to agree with us

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## Myth_buster_1

Khanivore said:


> Might want to ask the Indian air force why they need 12 Su-30MKI replacements immediately to cover losses.
> 
> Hindustan Times (20 JAN 2020) says, _"*A total of 12 Su-30 jets have crashed since the fighter jets were inducted.* The IAF is likely to place an order for 12 more jets to make up for the losses."_
> 
> And indeed, _*as reported on 31 MAR 2020*_, they're looking to order 12 replacements: “We are moving towards ordering 12 more Sukhoi-30s... 12 is what is being followed up straightaway.”




according to bharatraksaw 11 su30 have crashed sofar so is the 12th one shot down one? 
so iaf is inadvertently admitting the su30 loss.

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## Khanivore

Myth_buster_1 said:


> according to bharatraksaw 11 su30 have crashed sofar so is the 12th one shot down one?
> so iaf is inadvertently admitting the su30 loss.


*My point exactly man. This is nothing short of tacit admission by the Indian air force.*


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## ChennaiDude

Myth_buster_1 said:


> according to bharatraksaw 11 su30 have crashed sofar so is the 12th one shot down one?
> so iaf is inadvertently admitting the su30 loss.


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## Khanivore

ChennaiDude said:


>


I thought that's what deluded Indian fanboys do.

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## ziaulislam

Hack-Hook said:


> I already said that F-16 shot down is also a myth just like Su-30mki shotdown , just like bombing that school


Didnt know you were there on feb27 watching everything from above ..

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## alee92nawaz

Hack-Hook said:


> did anchor provide evidence , how many time anchors in Indian or Pakistan or anyplace else talked nonsense. and show me evidence instead of these nonsense about Indian or anchor or .....
> 
> 
> whatever as if we are intrested in those airplanes. and you guys are funy I ask show me evidence of Su-30 shot down and you are boasting your airforce is more advanced than ours as if I discuss that.
> childish indeed childish


There was no su 30 down. Happy?

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## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> Might want to ask the Indian air force why they need 12 Su-30MKI replacements immediately to cover losses.


so now its 12 SU-30mki that you shot down .
have you considered they at last understood that Mig-21 is a dead horse and whipping it serve no purpose and they want to start the process of replacing them


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## Myth_buster_1

Hack-Hook said:


> so now its 12 SU-30mki that you shot down .
> have you considered they at last understood that Mig-21 is a dead horse and whipping it serve no purpose and they want to start the process of replacing them



so far 11 su-30 have crashed due to accidents
but 12 have been ordered. what the fanboys here suggest that the 12th one is from 27th feb incident. 
do u get it now?

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## Trailer23

Myth_buster_1 said:


> do u get it now?


No he doesn't.

Ever since [someone] tagged him this Topic, he's become Surya 2.0 peddling the same old tape recorder over & over again.

With Surya it was, where is the other missile?

With this hack, its where's the proof?

Hamari kismat may aisay hee b.c parosi honay thay.

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## Hack-Hook

Myth_buster_1 said:


> so far 11 su-30 have crashed due to accidents
> but 12 have been ordered. what the fanboys here suggest that the 12th one is from 27th feb incident.
> do u get it now?


well they lost one Mig-21 . don't you think they must replace i with something ?



Trailer23 said:


> No he doesn't.
> 
> Ever since [someone] tagged him this Topic, he's become Surya 2.0 peddling the same old tape recorder over & over again.
> 
> With Surya it was, where is the other missile?
> 
> With this hack, its where's the proof?
> 
> Hamari kismat may aisay hee b.c parosi honay thay.


you guys didn't provide the proof , If I want to accept what you offer as proof I must also accept Indian so called proof for F-16 shotdown and as I don't accept those so called evidence why I most accept yours which are of the same categories


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## Myth_buster_1

Hack-Hook said:


> well they lost one Mig-21 . don't you think they must replace i with something ?


IAF is in process of phasing out Mig-21 and plus production line is closed. 


> you guys didn't provide the proof , If I want to accept what you offer as proof I must also accept Indian so called proof for F-16 shotdown and as I don't accept those so called evidence why I most accept yours which are of the same categories


Their is more evidence that prove Su-30 was shot down then their is of F-16 which ALL have been debunked.

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## Trailer23

Hack-Hook said:


> If I want to accept what you offer as proof I must also accept Indian so called proof for F-16 shotdown and as I don't accept those so called evidence why I most accept yours which are of the same categories


So just accept the Indian side and move on.

We didn't give the Indian narrative any importance. What makes you think that we'd take yours seriously.

Your acceptance on this forum is relevant as an ashtray on a Fighter Jet.

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## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> *so now its 12 SU-30mki that you shot down .*
> have you considered they at last understood that Mig-21 is a dead horse and whipping it serve no purpose and they want to start the process of replacing them


You've not been following what I've been saying in this thread. There's discrepancies in the reported _*losses to crashes*_ and the needed replacements the IAF reports due to *losses*.

OK, for a moment, let's put aside what PAF contacts/crewmembers claim about Su-30MKI, or what the villagers reported of a plane falling inside IoJK, or what the IAF claims for the reason the Mi-17 was out for, or what Alan Warnes thinks was the real reason, and look at the following:

*Up until Jul 2018*, this famous Indian paper listed *SEVEN lost/crashed Su-30MKIs* since India inducted first Su-30s back in 1997. *THEN after 27 FEB 2019*.. Hindustan Times (20 JAN 2020) says, _"*A total of 12* Su-30 jets *have crashed* since the fighter jets were inducted. The IAF is likely to place an order for 12 more jets to make up for the losses."_ Indeed, *as reported on 31 MAR 2020*, the IAF is definitely looking to order 12 replacements: “We are moving towards ordering 12 more Sukhoi-30s... 12 is what is being followed up straightaway.”

So why 12? Doesn't that baffle you from a neutral point, if you really are Iranian? By all means do your own research on these losses.

If there's an Su-30MKI not officially recorded as a crashed one, due to technical fault or crew error, we can only assume one of the lost Su-30MKIs is that mysterious one which PAF claims to have shot down with AMRAAM -- for which an Mi-17 seemed to have been out to search and rescue before it got shot down too.

Strangely enough the IAF said the "villagers stole" the black box of the Mi-17 so all flight data of that rescue chopper has vanished - so conveniently. 

So anyway, do give us your take on this and please, not a silly, half-baked reason.

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## ziaulislam

Claim is a claim su30 MKI shot down by aim120c is still claim..so beleive what you want..there are no visual pictures as it crashed in its own territory ..

IAF story summarized by only looking at IAF own claims is this

"Hey we lost the mig21 to BVR at excess of 100km range, our pilot doesnt know but we think he shot an F16 with within visual range missile and hey we have RADAR data but it isnt AWECs, as we had none in the air...oh and i want add we were jammed as well completely but we still trust our instinct and our radar outdated ground radar data and hey obviously noone will share their own radar data due to security 
Concerns, oh to add our airdefence guy in panickes shot down its own chopper"

The PAF story is
" a f16 a/b shot down a su30 with aim120c at BVR range with full jammers and AWEC support we have both AWEC and ground radar data..india had no assets to jam us and no assets to challenge our f16s and USA count of F16 is complete"

Ground witness account per indian OWN news reports claim two crashes WITHIN INDIAN BOARDERS ...but we have yet to see the second crash pictures that happened in india..if those witnesses are to beleived

In reality evey foreign expert knows its ludicrous claim..but the claim isnt for foreigners... its for domestic audience ..if IAF wanted foreigners to beleive it claims it would have made a more resonable story like MICA shooting down f16 or r77 su30 shooting down it...but for domestic audience the story should be emotional like a bollywood script so the fallen idiot is now a hero who took down a mighty beast with himself..had abhi died it would have been a great story IMO ..a true scarfice ..who cares if it makes no sense 



There is difference if USA claims it has gone to the moon vs your schizophrenic neighbour



Hack-Hook said:


> well they lost one Mig-21 . don't you think they must replace i with something ?
> 
> 
> you guys didn't provide the proof , If I want to accept what you offer as proof I must also accept Indian so called proof for F-16 shotdown and as I don't accept those so called evidence why I most accept yours which are of the same categories

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## Hack-Hook

Myth_buster_1 said:


> IAF is in process of phasing out Mig-21 and plus production line is closed.
> 
> Their is more evidence that prove Su-30 was shot down then their is of F-16 which ALL have been debunked.


well I said that they lost one Mig-21 and they want to replace it and as everybody knew mig-21 is a dead horse they ordered Su-30

let be honnest if it was me, I'd have ordered something newer . Su-30 is also old and don't worth invest more



Trailer23 said:


> So just accept the Indian side and move on.
> 
> We didn't give the Indian narrative any importance. What makes you think that we'd take yours seriously.
> 
> Your acceptance on this forum is relevant as an ashtray on a Fighter Jet.


did I have a narrative , I said your Su-30 claim is not supported by evidence and facts . and you didn't proved me wrong.



Khanivore said:


> *Up until Jul 2018*, this famous Indian paper listed *SEVEN lost/crashed Su-30MKIs* since India inducted first Su-30s back in 1997. *THEN after 27 FEB 2019*.. Hindustan Times (20 JAN 2020) says, _"*A total of 12* Su-30 jets *have crashed* since the fighter jets were inducted. The IAF is likely to place an order for 12 more jets to make up for the losses."_ Indeed, *as reported on 31 MAR 2020*, the IAF is definitely looking to order 12 replacements: “We are moving towards ordering 12 more Sukhoi-30s... 12 is what is being followed up straightaway.”
> 
> So why 12? Doesn't that baffle you from a neutral point, if you really are Iranian? By all means do your own research on these losses.


you see you cn't get what news paper say as face value , you say the newspaper said till 14th jul-2018 there was only 7 crash well according to your other source say there actually was 9 crash till that date

and as I said they had to replace that lost Mig-21


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## Ali_Baba

Khanivore said:


> What I gave you are spoken words, clearly admitting Su-30MKI kill. Call it accidental slip of the tongue because it got accidentally left on the news Teleprompter before the sudden change to *Bollywood script*.
> 
> 
> Not only are PAF sure they shot down an Su-30MKI inside IoJK but listen to what Alan Warnes said about it:



In these troubled times of lockdown, watching this video cheers me up sooo much. Thanks!

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## Hack-Hook

ziaulislam said:


> Ground witness account per indian OWN news reports claim two crashes WITHIN INDIAN BOARDERS ...but we have yet to see the second crash pictures that happened in india..if those witnesses are to beleived


there is cases that villager on the ground saw drop tanks and taught a plane was shot . also there is cases that when body of the missile fall on the ground at the middle of the flight villagers taught it was the missile that fell there



ziaulislam said:


> hey obviously noone will share their own radar data due to security


they actualy showed a radar footage , to me it more looked like somebody playing with paint program.


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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Myth_buster_1 said:


> so far 11 su-30 have crashed due to accidents
> but 12 have been ordered. what the fanboys here suggest that the 12th one is from 27th feb incident.
> do u get it now?





Khanivore said:


> You've not been following what I've been saying in this thread. There's discrepancies in the reported _*losses to crashes*_ and the needed replacements the IAF reports due to *losses*.
> 
> OK, for a moment, let's put aside what PAF contacts/crewmembers claim about Su-30MKI, or what the villagers reported of a plane falling inside IoJK, or what the IAF claims for the reason the Mi-17 was out for, or what Alan Warnes thinks was the real reason, and look at the following:
> 
> *Up until Jul 2018*, this famous Indian paper listed *SEVEN lost/crashed Su-30MKIs* since India inducted first Su-30s back in 1997. *THEN after 27 FEB 2019*.. Hindustan Times (20 JAN 2020) says, _"*A total of 12* Su-30 jets *have crashed* since the fighter jets were inducted. The IAF is likely to place an order for 12 more jets to make up for the losses."_


Only 10 Su-30s have crashed.
2009- 2
2011- 1
2013- 1
2015- 1
2014- 1
2017- 2
2018- 1
2019- 1.

Some people wrongly classify an Su-30 with nose wheel undercarriage problem in Apr 2012 as an accident even though it was a Category IV incident (it got fully repaired).

12 Su-30s were ordered as that is annual production rate of HAL Nasik for 4-5 yrs now which means you get to book Nasik plant for a whole year with 12 jets and also it accounts for the next two crash in future (whenever that occurs).
@Hack-Hook

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## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> you see you cn't get what news paper say as face value , you say the newspaper said till 14th jul-2018 there was only 7 crash well according to your other source say there actually was 9 crash till that date
> 
> and as I said they had to replace that lost Mig-21


Su-30MKI to replace a lost MiG-21? Yeah OK dude. And nice one on rubbishing the prominent Indian papers, couldn't agree with you more.


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## ziaulislam

Hack-Hook said:


> there is cases that villager on the ground saw drop tanks and taught a plane was shot . also there is cases that when body of the missile fall on the ground at the middle of the flight villagers taught it was the missile that fell there
> 
> 
> they actualy showed a radar footage , to me it more looked like somebody playing with paint program.


NO they didnt show radar data..that was, as you said plain images drawn to visualize the conflict ...
Villagers stated it was a jet..how reliable that is anyone guess..
My bottom line is indian story is full of holes...it seems they arent even trying to convince a foreign experts simply because most will trust what USA said(nothing shot down) and most know how deadly the aim120c is..


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## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> Su-30MKI to replace a lost MiG-21? Yeah OK dude. And nice one on rubbishing the prominent Indian papers, couldn't agree with you more.


what they are supposed to replace mig-21 with ? they don't have a production line for it and they claimed they want to retire all their mig-21 in 2022, they have 120 of them in service that they better retire them soon


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## ziaulislam

Whether su 30 was shot down will probably nevr be confirm and will go down as a claim..i doubt f16 shooting down even comes under claim..simply because the story IAF made is simply ludicrous


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## Hack-Hook

ziaulislam said:


> Whether su 30 was shot down will probably nevr be confirm and will go down as a claim..i doubt f16 shooting down even comes under claim..simply because the story IAF made is simply ludicrous


you can always find people who actively looking for such stories and the more they are unlikely the more they advertise them as fact.


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## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> what they are supposed to replace mig-21 with ? they don't have a production line for it and they claimed they want to retire all their mig-21 in 2022, they have 120 of them in service that they better retire them soon


They could buy more Rafales or order extra Tejas. Cheaper to run/maintain than the Su-30MKIs which are very costly to run/maintain. What is the sense in buying a bloody huge and costly platform which did diddly-squat on 27 Feb 2019 and can't be deployed at Srinagar for quick-reaction response?

The fact remains tho: the IAF paid a heavy price on 27 Feb 2019, not even daring to retaliate like PAF did the very next day. Christine Fair was left wanting and utterly disappointed.


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## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> which did diddly-squat on 27 Feb 2019 and can't be deployed at Srinagar for quick-reaction response?


well think you want to use nothing in your sentence , what you wrote mean did anything.

maybe they don't want any more Rafale and you very well knew Tejas have problem and they need to improve many thing about it before it can become something serious. 

by the way by the price of one Rafale you can buy two Su-30mki . french wants the blood money of their ancestors for that jet


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## Readerdefence

Hack-Hook said:


> what they are supposed to replace mig-21 with ? they don't have a production line for it and they claimed they want to retire all their mig-21 in 2022, they have 120 of them in service that they better retire them soon


Hi so isn’t it better not to replace that specific single mig21 with something or related to their squad as you mentioned yourself about retiring rest of them in 2022 you mind mentioning that with a link of retiring all their MiGs in 2022 & what kind of fighter they are replacing with these retiring MiGs as 2022 is round the corner 
Thank you


----------



## Khanivore

Khanivore said:


> They could buy more Rafales or order extra Tejas. Cheaper to run/maintain than the Su-30MKIs which are very costly to run/maintain. What is the sense in buying a bloody huge and costly platform which did diddly-squat on 27 Feb 2019 and can't be deployed at Srinagar for quick-reaction response? The fact remains tho: the IAF paid a heavy price on 27 Feb 2019, not even daring to retaliate like PAF did the very next day. Christine Fair was left wanting and utterly disappointed.





Hack-Hook said:


> well think you want to use nothing in your sentence , what you wrote mean did anything.


*Pardon me for using English slang, but what I meant was:* The IAF could buy more Rafales (very potent, armed with Meteor BVR) or order extra Tejas (83 already on order). Cheaper to run/maintain than the Su-30MKIs which are very costly to run/maintain. What is the sense in buying a bloody huge and costly Su-30MKI which proved to be useless on 27 Feb 2019 and can't be deployed at Srinagar for quick-reaction response?


----------



## loanranger

*Pakistan Airforce F16 Live Mission 2020*

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## MastanKhan

Khanivore said:


> The fact remains tho: the IAF paid a heavy price on 27 Feb 2019, not even daring to retaliate like PAF did the very next day. Christine Fair was left wanting and utterly disappointed.



Hi,

The indians did not pay 'heavy price' on the 27th---. 27th was a setup to start with to justify the immediate procurement of the Rafale for what PM Modi's future planning---.

It was all pre planned---.

If Paf had not responded as it did---then IAF was satisfied with what it had---and if the Paf did as it did---then the PM Modi's ready made statement was the answer---.


----------



## Khanivore

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The indians did not pay 'heavy price' on the 27th---. 27th was a setup to start with to justify the immediate procurement of the Rafale for what PM Modi's future planning---.
> 
> It was all pre planned---.
> 
> If Paf had not responded as it did---then IAF was satisfied with what it had---and if the Paf did as it did---then the PM Modi's ready made statement was the answer---.


Wow. Interesting twist. I never thought of it as such. So the IAF intentionally lost 2 aircraft + chopper for this plan to execute?


----------



## PakFactor

Khanivore said:


> Wow. Interesting twist. I never thought of it as such. So the IAF intentionally lost 2 aircraft + chopper for this plan to execute?



Didn’t the Nazis burned down their own parliament to start their plan against Jews? Human beings are capable of any deceit as long their goals are achieved.


----------



## MastanKhan

Khanivore said:


> Wow. Interesting twist. I never thought of it as such. So the IAF intentionally lost 2 aircraft + chopper for this plan to execute?



Hi,

They could have lost a couple more without blinking an eye---.

Mr. Modi had short term plans and has long term plans against pakistan---for both of them to be implemented---he had to test the pakistani waters---.

The pakistani response was supposed to be muted as promised by the americans---but Paf had to retaliate due to public pressure---. But the response was muted---and then the Paf and Pak military ISPR blundered into giving all operational details that no enemy could expect.

That information was the gravy or you may call it topping on top of the desert---.

It was so immature on part of the Paf and ISPR---to present all the operational secrets on a platter to the enemy giving out all operational details---and then talking about the short comings of the enemy on public forums---.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The indians did not pay 'heavy price' on the 27th---. 27th was a setup to start with to justify the immediate procurement of the Rafale for what PM Modi's future planning---.
> 
> It was all pre planned---.
> 
> If Paf had not responded as it did---then IAF was satisfied with what it had---and if the Paf did as it did---then the PM Modi's ready made statement was the answer---.



You do know that Rafael deal was in process since 2015 right?
Tell us what plan did IAF execute to purchase mammoth 250+ Su-30 which was an over kill for what PAF had a decade ago.

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## Hack-Hook

Readerdefence said:


> Hi so isn’t it better not to replace that specific single mig21 with something or related to their squad as you mentioned yourself about retiring rest of them in 2022 you mind mentioning that with a link of retiring all their MiGs in 2022 & what kind of fighter they are replacing with these retiring MiGs as 2022 is round the corner
> Thank you


Their plan is to remove mig-21 and mig-27 and replace them with 2 squadron of su-30 and two of Tejas .
https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/nation/mig-21-a-relic-that-continues-to-fly-623650
But Tejas is not ready yet so they had to start with su-30 which is ready.



Khanivore said:


> *Pardon me for using English slang, but what I meant was:* The IAF could buy more Rafales (very potent, armed with Meteor BVR) or order extra Tejas (83 already on order). Cheaper to run/maintain than the Su-30MKIs which are very costly to run/maintain. What is the sense in buying a bloody huge and costly Su-30MKI which proved to be useless on 27 Feb 2019 and can't be deployed at Srinagar for quick-reaction response?


Are you sure Rafale is cheaper to maintain than Su-30 ,the initial price is at least twice as much and tejas is not as potent as so-30mki.
By the way what happened on 27 February 2019 that indicate su-30 is useless


----------



## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> Their plan is to remove mig-21 and mig-27 and replace them with 2 squadron of su-30 and two of Tejas .
> https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/nation/mig-21-a-relic-that-continues-to-fly-623650
> But Tejas is not ready yet so they had to start with su-30 which is ready.


Funny that now it's you who is quoting Indian papers when you earlier rubbished my response when I quoted Indian papers. Isn't that kind of hypocritical? 



Hack-Hook said:


> Are you sure Rafale is cheaper to maintain than Su-30 ,the initial price is at least twice as much and tejas is not as potent as so-30mki.


That's what I gathered from what the Indian papers said.



Hack-Hook said:


> By the way what happened on 27 February 2019 that indicate su-30 is useless


You really need me to tell you what happened on 27 Feb '19? Come on, you have access to everything just as I do. Do your own research for a bit.

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## Suriya

Hack-Hook said:


> .
> 
> maybe they don't want any more Rafale and you very well knew Tejas have problem and they need to improve many thing about it before it can become something serious.


1. IAF has already placed an order of 83 LCA to replace aging Mig21.

2. This 12 Su30 have been ordered as they replace 10 Su30s lost over the years and 12 is yearly capacity of HAL's Su30 assembly line. So IAF ordered 12 new ones.


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## Khanivore

MastanKhan said:


> It was so immature on part of the Paf and ISPR---to present all the operational secrets on a platter to the enemy giving out all operational details---and then talking about the short comings of the enemy on public forums---.


You're not alone in that thought, I too was a bit baffled as to why PAF felt they should expose the inner working details of their operation so publicly, revealing details on assets, capability and strategy. Highly odd I thought to myself because, if it was the Israeli air force, you would never hear about their operational capability -- only perhaps in a much minimal and controlled sense, with further details possibly revealed decades later. That's how Israel would've handled it.

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## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> Funny that now it's you who is quoting Indian papers when you earlier rubbished my response when I quoted Indian papers. Isn't that kind of hypocritical?


did I said it it is proof , you asked me from where I heard they want to replace and its there .
and that time you provided two source and both of them said different things



Khanivore said:


> You really need me to tell you what happened on 27 Feb '19? Come on, you have access to everything just as I do. Do your own research for a bit.


I asked you what happened *that indicate Su-30 is useless? *
the bold part is important



Suriya said:


> 1. IAF has already placed an order of 83 LCA to replace aging Mig21.


you knew there are issues that are supposed to be fixed in Mark 2 varriant , your airforce only accepted initial batch so let the project continue
https://www.business-standard.com/a...rce-to-buy-tejas-mark-1-a-115081201951_1.html

so for me unles Mark II come out , Mark 1that you lready bought and Mark 1A are only saving HAL


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## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> did I said it it is proof , you asked me from where I heard they want to replace and its there .
> and that time you provided two source and both of them said different things


That was not me asking you, but nevertheless you did source Indian paper.  And yes, I was showing what was reported by 2 prominent Indian papers, and I drew my opinion and you drew your clouded judgement. But now you yourself source Indian papers. 



Hack-Hook said:


> I asked you what happened *that indicate Su-30 is useless? *
> the bold part is important


You 656 pages to read up. Get busy with it, lad!



Hack-Hook said:


> you knew there are issues that are supposed to be fixed in Mark 2 varriant , your airforce only accepted initial batch so let the project continue... so for me unles Mark II come out , Mark 1that you lready bought and *Mark 1A are only saving HAL*


HAL is assembling Su-30MKIs and have capacity to churn out 12 per year, right? So with 83 Mark 1As on order, HAL will be extremely busy, plus the Indian "experts" think the Mark 1A's _"capability that would give it a clear combat edge over Pakistan’s entire fighter fleet, and most of China’s as well..."_. So you my friend are underestimating the Mark 1A. 

Hey, has Iran shown any interest in Tejas Mk 1A or Mk 2? Frankly speaking, the Iranian air force does seem _dangerously malnourished_. Ripe for a US ambush at any given time. Might be time for you to exile yourself in the great Saffron Bharat.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> That was not me asking you, but nevertheless you did source Indian paper.  And yes, I was showing what was reported by 2 prominent Indian papers, and I drew my opinion and you drew your clouded judgement. But now you yourself source Indian papers.
> 
> 
> You 656 pages to read up. Get busy with it, lad!
> 
> 
> HAL is assembling Su-30MKIs and have capacity to churn out 12 per year, right? So with 83 Mark 1As on order, HAL will be extremely busy, plus the Indian "experts" think the Mark 1A's _"capability that would give it a clear combat edge over Pakistan’s entire fighter fleet, and most of China’s as well..."_. So you my friend are underestimating the Mark 1A.
> 
> Hey, has Iran shown any interest in Tejas Mk 1A or Mk 2? Frankly speaking, the Iranian air force does seem _dangerously malnourished_. Ripe for a US ambush at any given time. Might be time for you to exile yourself in the great Saffron Bharat.


Iran even if wanted can't show any interest on mig-21 or jf-17 or su-30 of f-35 or f-22.
Twenty year ago in our parliament some guys reach to the conclusion that if our air force want new toys to play with they must build them themselves.

And you posted two source that contradicted each other.


----------



## Khanivore

Hack-Hook said:


> Iran even if wanted can't show any interest on mig-21 or jf-17 or su-30 of f-35 or f-22.
> Twenty year ago in our parliament some guys reach to the conclusion that if our air force want new toys to play with they must build them themselves.


Twenty years later...



Hack-Hook said:


> And you posted two source that contradicted each other.


Elaborate please because Indian papers always tend to contradict each other.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Khanivore said:


> Twenty years later...
> 
> 
> Elaborate please because Indian papers always tend to contradict each other.


one stated 7 crash and one 9 crash and about 20 years unles they abolish the previous one it'll be in effect


----------



## krash

drunken-monke said:


> 1948 - Pakistani regulars in disguise as guerrillas invaded Kashmir



Pakistani regulars were famously late to the scene, as documented by a few dozen independent sources. It's been the better part of the century and the Kashmiris still haven't stood down. Wonder when will India learn that even its rhetoric has failed in Kashmir?



drunken-monke said:


> 1965 - Aggressive patrolling in Rann of Katch, operation Gibraltar, operation grand slam?
> 1971 - 3rd Dec PAF did a preemptive strikes on IAFs 11 bases..



If Pakistani covert ops in Kashmir were the "initiation" of 65 then Indian covert ops in East Pakistan were the "initiation" of 71 (plenty by Indian sources out there). If the PAF crossing into India was the "initiation" of 71 then the Indian Army crossing over into Lahore sector was the "initiation" of 65. Go ahead, pick one. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, Rann of Kutch was done and dusted before anything happened in Kashmir.

"The Award by the Arbitration Tribunal vindicated Pakistan's position. India then shifted the center of gravity of operations to the Northern Areas."

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/rann-of-kutch.htm

ps: I don't understand how the very limited skirmishes in 99 were ever a war. Perhaps you could explain it to us in a more appropriate thread.




drunken-monke said:


> Dear @HRK why negative rating? Putting your point is against the forum rules?



When the "point" is designed to be dishonest and disingenuous, negative ratings are well deserved.


Let us all now get back to the topic of the thread. Won't be tolerating any Off Topic posts from here onward.

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## Bossman

Suriya said:


> 1. IAF has already placed an order of 83 LCA to replace aging Mig21.
> 
> 2. This 12 Su30 have been ordered as they replace 10 Su30s lost over the years and 12 is yearly capacity of HAL's Su30 assembly line. So IAF ordered 12 new ones.


Like your previous indigenous effort, Tejas is likely to go straight to junkyard from the factory.


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## Trailer23

Didn't want to start up a new Topic, so I thought this would suit well. This is what's been running on *India Today* since yesterday.

*Yesterday*










*Today*




@araz @airomerix @BHarwana @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Jango @Knuckles @krash @LeGenD @Side-Winder @Socra @waz 

@Adam_Khan @Ahmet Pasha @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @ARMalik @Angry Easterling @assasiner @Blacklight @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @GumNaam @Haris Ali2140 @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @Muhammad Omar @NA71 @Nasr @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakShaheen79 @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Safriz @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @TsAr @Trango Towers @undercover JIX @Verve @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar 
My




hommies @PakSword @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007 @ZedZeeshan

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## Pakistani Fighter

Trailer23 said:


> Didn't want to start up a new Topic, so I thought this would suit well. This is what's been running on *India Today* since yesterday.
> 
> *Yesterday*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Today*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @araz @airomerix @BHarwana @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Jango @Knuckles @krash @LeGenD @Side-Winder @Socra @waz
> 
> @Adam_Khan @Ahmet Pasha @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @ARMalik @Angry Easterling @assasiner @Blacklight @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @GumNaam @Haris Ali2140 @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @Muhammad Omar @NA71 @Nasr @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakShaheen79 @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Safriz @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @TsAr @Trango Towers @undercover JIX @Verve @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> My
> View attachment 631478
> hommies @PakSword @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007 @ZedZeeshan


Their most prominent ones and close to Govt. ones ABP, Zee and Aaj Tak are quiet


----------



## Trailer23

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Their most prominent ones and close to Govt. ones ABP, Zee and Aaj Tak are quiet


Because they've all gotten the danda courtesy of Arnab Goswami. Now they'll think twice before screaming at the camera.

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## Liquidmetal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259436860826423296

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## HRK

Liquidmetal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259436860826423296


wow ....

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## aliyusuf

Liquidmetal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259436860826423296


Great reflexes and aim.

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## Trailer23

Liquidmetal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259436860826423296

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## airomerix

Trailer23 said:


> Didn't want to start up a new Topic, so I thought this would suit well. This is what's been running on *India Today* since yesterday.
> 
> *Yesterday*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Today*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @araz @airomerix @BHarwana @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Foxtrot Alpha @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Jango @Knuckles @krash @LeGenD @Side-Winder @Socra @waz
> 
> @Adam_Khan @Ahmet Pasha @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @ARMalik @Angry Easterling @assasiner @Blacklight @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @GumNaam @Haris Ali2140 @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm @Liquidmetal @loanranger @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @Muhammad Omar @NA71 @Nasr @notorious_eagle @Pakhtoon yum @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakShaheen79 @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @Safriz @seven0seven @Shane @Signalian @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TF141 @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @TsAr @Trango Towers @undercover JIX @Verve @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
> My
> View attachment 631478
> hommies @PakSword @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007 @ZedZeeshan



This is all crap. 

On the contrary, there has been very little air activity on either side including LoC. 

These Indians and their war hysteria.


----------



## Imran Khan

The Accountant said:


> We all already know the answere ...


i just want to read his mind hope he will smile ever . at 27feb he just smiled first time for PAF just 1 day . next day he was angry again why paf just shot 2 why not 12 iaf jets

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## MastanKhan

Imran Khan said:


> i just want to read his mind hope he will smile ever . at 27feb he just smiled first time for PAF just 1 day . next day he was angry again why paf just shot 2 why not 12 iaf jets



Hi,

Satisfaction and limitations are a frame of mind---.

I have told this real story on this forum years ago---.

My very good friend in a different business got hurt and could not do his job.

Asks me---" what am I going to do---I know nothing else---". I told him come to car sales---he says I know nothing---. Told him he was the perfect candidate---owned a business---knew how to talk to people. Trained him for a couple of days and got him the job---.

In his first sales meeting of frdiay---the general sales manager is asking everyone of us on the sales floor how many vehicles each one of use will sell over the 3 day weekend---.

Some said one saome said two I said something like 4---when my buddies turn came he said 10---everybody laughed out loud---.

Anyway---fast forward 3 months---he call me on a friday morning---says guess what---how many cars I sold yesterday---I said tell me---he replied 9 cars---I fell off my chair.

I confirmed it with his manager later that day---he did it indeed---from 8 in the morning till 12 midnight---.

That thing changed my mindset---I used to be an 8-10 maybe 12 car salesman at that time---. I got satisfied with those numbers---.

I stopped being satisfied with those numbers---raised the bar and became a regular 15 + cars a month sale person---. One month I sold 34 cars---.

So I analyzed what I was doing wrong---. It was my mental state---. I had all the opportunity of selling a higher number of cars but I was just satisfied with 8-12 cars sold and was happy with that money---.

But then I realized if I just keep treating customers nicely sell them what they want---my numbers would go up and they did---.

So---what Paf did was get satisfied with those numbers---happy with lower expectations---like many pakistani posters on this forum.

In any business if the owner found out that I kicked out 8 solid buyers from the car lot because I had two deals under my belt that day and I was happy----I would have been fired from my job---and would have a hard time getting a job back in that business.

That is what the Paf hierarchy did---.

What most of the readers are not getting is the failure of the procedure by the Paf---which is---CALL BY THE PILOT ASKING PERSMISSION TO DOWN MORE ENEMY AIRCRAFT---this is the most critical information---.

This told me that our pilots were not given a free hand for AIR TO AIR combat---this flight was just for show---staged for a ground strike mission---.

Air to air combat was not a part of initial briefing before the mission---. It just became circumstantial act---.

And as there was no pre-planned action decided against the enemy aircraft---that is why you see confusion amongst pakistani pilots continuously seeking permission to shoot from the mission in charge in the air with them---who himself was not ready to take charge and make the decision---and passed on the buck---.

Did you read the interview of the officer of the Ghazi submarine that was posted here on this forum just recently---.

Even in the 1965 war---the submarine---that has to stay stealthy---during time of aggression had to surface and ask permission to shoot enemy ships---. So there they were---war was happening in Kashmir---the sub finds enemy ships and cannot fire on targets of opportunity---.

Supposedly on 4th sept---it pops up its periscope and the enemy aircraft carrier is berthed at the navy base right in front of it---.

A Yehudi captain and Israeli captain would have taken that enemy ship out without asking any questions---.

See---wonderful as our officers are---brave as the men are---but there is an inherent cowardice in their personality when taking the initiative at the right time to smash the enemy to kingdom come---.

So---coming back to it---I praised the action on the 27th for the initiative---but when the bigger picture became visible---it was sorry state of affairs reeking of cowardice of the pakistani generals---and of utmost bravery by the pilots and operators on the mission---. A massive opportunity lost by " older wiser men when the young were ready to sacrifice their lives to make a substatial blow on the enemy "---.
@Armchair @Mangus Ortus Novem @Mentee

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## MastanKhan

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Satisfaction and limitations are a frame of mind---.
> 
> I have told this real story on this forum years ago---.
> 
> My very good friend in a different business got hurt and could not do his job.
> 
> Asks me---" what am I going to do---I know nothing else---". I told him come to car sales---he says I know nothing---. Told him he was the perfect candidate---owned a business---knew how to talk to people. Trained him for a couple of days and got him the job---.
> 
> In his first sales meeting of frdiay---the general sales manager is asking everyone of us on the sales floor how many vehicles each one of use will sell over the 3 day weekend---.
> 
> Some said one saome said two I said something like 4---when my buddies turn came he said 10---everybody laughed out loud---.
> 
> Anyway---fast forward 3 months---he call me on a friday morning---says guess what---how many cars I sold yesterday---I said tell me---he replied 9 cars---I fell off my chair.
> 
> I confirmed it with his manager later that day---he did it indeed---from 8 in the morning till 12 midnight---.
> 
> That thing changed my mindset---I used to be an 8-10 maybe 12 car salesman at that time---. I got satisfied with those numbers---.
> 
> I stopped being satisfied with those numbers---raised the bar and became a regular 15 + cars a month sale person---. One month I sold 34 cars---.
> 
> So I analyzed what I was doing wrong---. It was my mental state---. I had all the opportunity of selling a higher number of cars but I was just satisfied with 8-12 cars sold and was happy with that money---.
> 
> But then I realized if I just keep treating customers nicely sell them what they want---my numbers would go up and they did---.
> 
> So---what Paf did was get satisfied with those numbers---happy with lower expectations---like many pakistani posters on this forum.
> 
> In any business if the owner found out that I kicked out 8 solid buyers from the car lot because I had two deals under my belt that day and I was happy----I would have been fired from my job---and would have a hard time getting a job back in that business.
> 
> That is what the Paf hierarchy did---.
> 
> What most of the readers are not getting is the failure of the procedure by the Paf---which is---CALL BY THE PILOT ASKING PERSMISSION TO DOWN MORE ENEMY AIRCRAFT---this is the most critical information---.
> 
> This told me that our pilots were not given a free hand for AIR TO AIR combat---this flight was just for show---staged for a ground strike mission---.
> 
> Air to air combat was not a part of initial briefing before the mission---. It just became circumstantial act---.
> 
> And as there was no pre-planned action decided against the enemy aircraft---that is why you see confusion amongst pakistani pilots continuously seeking permission to shoot from the mission in charge in the air with them---who himself was not ready to take charge and make the decision---and passed on the buck---.
> 
> Did you read the interview of the officer of the Ghazi submarine that was posted here on this forum just recently---.
> 
> Even in the 1965 war---the submarine---that has to stay stealthy---during time of aggression had to surface and ask permission to shoot enemy ships---. So there they were---war was happening in Kashmir---the sub finds enemy ships and cannot fire on targets of opportunity---.
> 
> Supposedly on 4th sept---it pops up its periscope and the enemy aircraft carrier is berthed at the navy base right in front of it---.
> 
> A Yehudi captain and Israeli captain would have taken that enemy ship out without asking any questions---.
> 
> See---wonderful as our officers are---brave as the men are---but there is an inherent cowardice in their personality when taking the initiative at the right time to smash the enemy to kingdom come---.
> 
> So---coming back to it---I praised the action on the 27th for the initiative---but when the bigger picture became visible---it was sorry state of affairs reeking of cowardice of the pakistani generals---and of utmost bravery by the pilots and operators on the mission---. A massive opportunity lost by " older wiser men when the young were ready to sacrifice they lives to make a substatial blow on the enemy "---.
> @Armchair @Mangus Ortus Novem @Mentee



Hi,

I will dig into my post one more time and want to bring you guys attention to what every one including myself had missed earlier---.

Paf pilot flying on a combat mission should not call back home or to the flight commander and seek permission to engage enemies locked on target.

So---when this happened---it meant that the Paf had not discussed enemy aircraft contact and had no contingency plan in place to what would happen if multiple enemy aircraft were locked on within range---.

Looking at the mission profile and engagement---it gets clearer that it was a strike mission with all the drama and show included and the procedure used was where the real focus was---.

It seems that during the pre flight briefing the Paf pilots did not have a free hand at what to engage and what not to and niether did the AVM flying back seat in the mission---.

If it had been decided before hand---neither the pilots needed to call the AVM and nor the AVM had to call home to her husband to get permission.

And people talking about this FAILURE of an AVM and making his case to be the next air chief should stop doing that---.

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## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I will dig into my post one more time and want to bring you guys attention to what every one including myself had missed earlier---.
> 
> Paf pilot flying on a combat mission should not call back home or to the flight commander and seek permission to engage enemies locked on target.
> 
> So---when this happened---it meant that the Paf had not discussed enemy aircraft contact and had no contingency plan in place to what would happen if multiple enemy aircraft were locked on within range---.
> 
> Looking at the mission profile and engagement---it gets clearer that it was a strike mission with all the drama and show included and the procedure used was where the real focus was---.
> 
> It seems that during the pre flight briefing the Paf pilots did not have a free hand at what to engage and what not to and niether did the AVM flying back seat in the mission---.
> 
> If it had been decided before hand---neither the pilots needed to call the AVM and nor the AVM had to call home to her husband to get permission.
> 
> And people talking about this FAILURE of an AVM and making his case to be the next air chief should stop doing that---.



Hi @MastanKhan I hope Ramadan is treating you good.

"it meant that the Paf had not discussed enemy aircraft contact and had no contingency plan in place to what would happen if multiple enemy aircraft were locked on within rang"

Can you Elaborate.


----------



## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hi @MastanKhan I hope Ramadan is treating you good.
> 
> "it meant that the Paf had not discussed enemy aircraft contact and had no contingency plan in place to what would happen if multiple enemy aircraft were locked on within rang"
> 
> Can you Elaborate.



Hi,

I believe I explained it clearly that Paf was more focused on a strike mission and forgot about the targets of opportunity---.

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## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I believe I explained it clearly that Paf was more focused on a strike mission and forgot about the targets of opportunity---.


@MastanKhan ask your self this question: Out of the whole strike package why Only 4 (2 Mirages + @ JF-17) actually went in for the strike (air interdiction) whilst a whole squadron was air superiority.

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## DrWatson775

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> @MastanKhan ask your self this question: Out of the whole strike package why Only 4 (2 Mirages + @ JF-17) actually went in for the strike (air interdiction) whilst a whole squadron was air superiority.



A counter argument would be this: if so many aircraft were on CAP, why did they have to wait for permission from the ground to engage enemy fighters that were there for the sole reason to prevent them from succeeding in their mission?

In these days of datalinks, the whole aerial picture is in front of the pilots including the mission leader in the air. If they deem an enemy aircraft can pose a threat, they should engage without wasting precious minutes or even seconds which can put the lives of their colleagues in peril.

In aerial warfare I believe seconds count. The country's sovereignty had been violated and you are waiting for permission to fire when the mission itself is an offensive mission albeit in reponse to the enemy's aggression?

In the '67 and '73 wars, the IAF pilots on many occasions took bold decisions on their own. Granted radio communication was not as robust as it is today and they would have made some decisions without able to communicate with ground controllers. Better communications must not result in the decision making process transferred to the ground in the heat of the battle. Micromanagement has some downside.

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## arjunk

Neither side will go to war right now, world economy is imploding atm


----------



## Bossman

arjunk said:


> Neither side will go to war right now, world economy is imploding atm


That is the best reason to go war.

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## PakFactor

arjunk said:


> Neither side will go to war right now, world economy is imploding atm



When things don’t go good at home you look outside and cause trouble to rally a beaten down population. Politicians will often times look else where for a fall guy.


----------



## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> @MastanKhan ask your self this question: Out of the whole strike package why Only 4 (2 Mirages + @ JF-17) actually went in for the strike (air interdiction) whilst a whole squadron was air superiority.



Hi,

Well that is the question---. When there were 4 strike aircraft and they all did their job then why did the sqdrn of air superiority fighters did not do their job---. That is what I have been bringing out---.

Why did the pilots had to seek permission to fire on multiple targets that were locked on---. Why did they not have prior briefing when facing a situation like this---.

In modern day air combat---every millisecond counts and every second wasted is a second too late---and every second lost is the difference between life and death---.

Then what was the reason that the Paf air command had not readied its fighter to shoot when targets of opportunity became available---.

Why did the pilot have to call and seek permission---.

Why did that air vice marshall in the air did not understand the gravity of the lost seconds---.

If the pilot did not have the authority to launch missiles---if the AVM in the air did not have the authority to permit launching the missile then what was that AVM doing in the air---what was his job definition that day---.

Why did the Paf hierarchy waste 16 second to give permission to shoot---. Why was not there a person in the control room having the authority to allow shooting down the enemy---. Why was one Paf general passing on the buck to the next general in command---?

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## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well that is the question---. When there were 4 strike aircraft and they all did their job then why did the sqdrn of air superiority fighters did not do their job---. That is what I have been bringing out---.
> 
> Why did the pilots had to seek permission to fire on multiple targets that were locked on---. Why did they not have prior briefing when facing a situation like this---.
> 
> In modern day air combat---every millisecond counts and every second wasted is a second too late---and every second lost is the difference between life and death---.
> 
> Then what was the reason that the Paf air command had not readied its fighter to shoot when targets of opportunity became available---.
> 
> Why did the pilot have to call and seek permission---.
> 
> Why did that air vice marshall in the air did not understand the gravity of the lost seconds---.
> 
> If the pilot did not have the authority to launch missiles---if the AVM in the air did not have the authority to permit launching the missile then what was that AVM doing in the air---what was his job definition that day---.
> 
> Why did the Paf hierarchy waste 16 second to give permission to shoot---. Why was not there a person in the control room having the authority to allow shooting down the enemy---. Why was one Paf general passing on the buck to the next general in command---?


Hello @MastanKhan

The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.

why the IAF did not continue is another question.

I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.

We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.

I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.



DrWatson775 said:


> A counter argument would be this: if so many aircraft were on CAP, why did they have to wait for permission from the ground to engage enemy fighters that were there for the sole reason to prevent them from succeeding in their mission?
> 
> In these days of datalinks, the whole aerial picture is in front of the pilots including the mission leader in the air. If they deem an enemy aircraft can pose a threat, they should engage without wasting precious minutes or even seconds which can put the lives of their colleagues in peril.
> 
> In aerial warfare I believe seconds count. The country's sovereignty had been violated and you are waiting for permission to fire when the mission itself is an offensive mission albeit in reponse to the enemy's aggression?
> 
> In the '67 and '73 wars, the IAF pilots on many occasions took bold decisions on their own. Granted radio communication was not as robust as it is today and they would have made some decisions without able to communicate with ground controllers. Better communications must not result in the decision making process transferred to the ground in the heat of the battle. Micromanagement has some downside.


Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.

Permission or no Permission.

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## Telescopic Sight

Trailer23 said:


> Now that you've been given a befitting response/ reply to every thing you swung at me..., care to go for Round 2?!!



I am logging in after a month. So just saw your response. Will write in detail in a day or two. Thanks!


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## Myth_buster_1

Telescopic Sight said:


> I am logging in after a month. So just saw your response. Will write in detail in a day or two. Thanks!


You just ran away like a little ***** that you are. You just needed some time to recover from over dosage of reality check. 
Now go back to your doodle board and come up with new goofy stuff.

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## Armchair

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hello @MastanKhan
> 
> The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
> 
> why the IAF did not continue is another question.
> 
> I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
> 
> We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
> 
> I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
> 
> 
> Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
> 
> Permission or no Permission.



It's just the MK and others are upset that a chance of a lifetime to give the Indian a beating to remember was thrown away. A beating that would have avoided the present situation.



Blacklight said:


> Pakistan has seen many opportunities lost, due to these "older wise men"



_khirad ko gholami se azad ker, jawano ko piron ke estad kar. _

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## mudas777

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> At this stage---I do not want a J-31---. We need to keep our fighter / strike aircraft in the realm of reality and that realm is the 4th / 4.5 gen aircraft---.
> 
> My ultimate target and goal would be to have a strike aircraft that can hit mumbai and pummel its economic assets to the ground---be it the SU34's---the J models---or the JH7A---it don't matter---but has to be an aircraft that can carry two heavy AShM's or ASM's---.
> 
> Pakistan's primary need is to bring lay havoc on the enemy's economic centers---.
> 
> Freinds of Pakistan should Negate the Paf's mentality of being a defensive air force---and vehemently condemn and reject it at every forum possible---.




Its about time PAF should move away from the defensive posture and invest in strike capable assets. If we can't strike back with heavy hand and make enemy to pay then enemy will keep on coming at you knowing well eventually your defence assets will degrade and then she will be able to inflict damage. When enemy is made aware of the heavy response it can receive as a pay back then Modi will never dare to cross the line. Regardless of the bravery of the PAF pilots we lack numbers and have got limited strike capabilities which needs considerably ramping up.
PAF is like a goal keeper standing on its own facing 50 penalty kicks and with our sky high optimism without any realism and still expecting to win. The best goal keeper can do is save all the penalties but score will still be 0 at best. The day we give our boys chance to take the penalties at their goal too it will be a game changer. 28th February was a day of celebration but it was a day and time have moved on from that date and enemy have learned and addressing its short comings and next time it may not be that easy hence we need to raise the bar.

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## Scorpiooo

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hello @MastanKhan
> 
> The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
> 
> why the IAF did not continue is another question.
> 
> I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
> 
> We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
> 
> I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
> 
> 
> Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
> 
> Permission or no Permission.



Can i ask senario about sardar of Su 30, can u share



Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hello @MastanKhan
> 
> The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
> 
> why the IAF did not continue is another question.
> 
> I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
> 
> We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
> 
> I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
> 
> 
> Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
> 
> Permission or no Permission.



You said something about whay happen to sardar of su30, can you share little info of it


----------



## GriffinsRule

Armchair said:


> It's just the MK and others are upset that a chance of a lifetime to give the Indian a beating to remember was thrown away. A beating that would have avoided the present situation.
> 
> 
> 
> _khirad ko gholami se azad ker, jawano ko piron ke estad kar. _


There is no guarantee of that and you can not establish a cause and effect either. 
In an alternate universe, had PAF shot down 8 IAF aircraft and Modi government would have gone and done the same thing in Kashmir anyways, people would have been bashing PAF saying it made that happen by being reckless and now look what that has led to. 
Its easy to cook up fairy tales


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## MastanKhan

DrWatson775 said:


> In these days of datalinks, the whole aerial picture is in front of the pilots including the mission leader in the air. If they deem an enemy aircraft can pose a threat, they should engage without wasting precious minutes or even seconds which can put the lives of their colleagues in peril.
> 
> In aerial warfare I believe seconds count. The country's sovereignty had been violated and you are waiting for permission to fire when the mission itself is an offensive mission albeit in reponse to the enemy's aggression?
> 
> In the '67 and '73 wars, the IAF pilots on many occasions took bold decisions on their own. Granted radio communication was not as robust as it is today and they would have made some decisions without able to communicate with ground controllers. Better communications must not result in the decision making process transferred to the ground in the heat of the battle. Micromanagement has some downside.



Hi,

Thank you for an excellent excellent post---.



Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hello @MastanKhan
> 
> The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
> 
> why the IAF did not continue is another question.
> 
> I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
> 
> We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
> 
> I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
> 
> 
> Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
> 
> Permission or no Permission.




Hi,

That is a mentality of incompetence on part of the Paf and of Low Self Esteem---.

The US police has a 21 ft rule---. If a threat gets into your 21ft circle of radius there is a good chance that you might die---.

If they get into 10-12 ft radius---then you may consider yourself dead---.

On the civilian side---a person can claim self defense when the other person either touches them or gets physically close where you feel threatened---.

In the Paf's case the border or line of control was a drama to hide their incompetence---.

If the enemy had fired their BVR's at paf aircraft---the line of control would not have become a wall to have stopped those missiles---.

Just the mere presence of those aircraft in an area of conflict was the reason to take them down---.

The cowardice started on the side of the Paf---when they did not declare the indian strike and act of war---that happened on the 26th---.

After that---everything that happened was for the Paf to save its face.

I will take it to the next level----the real TREASON BY PAKISTAN MILITARY happened when the ISPR etc started giving out details of the poor quality equipment that the indian air force had---.

What they were telling the IAF was to correct their deficiency for future so that we are not able to attack you---.

@crankthatskunk @Mangus Ortus Novem @BATMAN

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## aziqbal

DrWatson775 said:


> A counter argument would be this: if so many aircraft were on CAP, why did they have to wait for permission from the ground to engage enemy fighters that were there for the sole reason to prevent them from succeeding in their mission?
> 
> In these days of datalinks, the whole aerial picture is in front of the pilots including the mission leader in the air. If they deem an enemy aircraft can pose a threat, they should engage without wasting precious minutes or even seconds which can put the lives of their colleagues in peril.
> 
> In aerial warfare I believe seconds count. The country's sovereignty had been violated and you are waiting for permission to fire when the mission itself is an offensive mission albeit in reponse to the enemy's aggression?
> 
> In the '67 and '73 wars, the IAF pilots on many occasions took bold decisions on their own. Granted radio communication was not as robust as it is today and they would have made some decisions without able to communicate with ground controllers. Better communications must not result in the decision making process transferred to the ground in the heat of the battle. Micromanagement has some downside.



No and No

communication and information between air and land is crucial part of pilot training, its fundamental the Air Force pilots take orders not decisions this is drilled in from day one, you step outside this domain you are dismissed no matter how senior you are, this is how it works in the military, why> because you follow plans and instructions

this is what Arabs do and look how it ended for them

Pakistani pilots are disciplined and robust, and in a non-war time footing every order has to followed they are not in the middle of a 1960s dogfight

Operation Swift Retort was planned and executed by the Pakistan high command, the correct procedure was followed and to avoid a all out war, it was a measured response

Indian pilots on the other hand were acting independently basically your descripton and looked what happened

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## Mentee

aziqbal said:


> Operation Swift Retort was planned and executed by the Pakistan high command, the correct procedure was followed and to avoid a all out war, it was a measured response




What if the IAF were to engage our strike package first? Or all airborne IAF aircrafts actually got into a hot pursuits like abhinandon?

I don't think they would have bought our
"hey its just tit for tat"
Excuse.

Besides the word improvisation consists of only 13 letters - - -.

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## MastanKhan

aziqbal said:


> No and No
> 
> communication and information between air and land is crucial part of pilot training, its fundamental the Air Force pilots take orders not decisions this is drilled in from day one, you step outside this domain you are dismissed no matter how senior you are, this is how it works in the military, why> because you follow plans and instructions
> 
> this is what Arabs do and look how it ended for them
> 
> Pakistani pilots are disciplined and robust, and in a non-war time footing every order has to followed they are not in the middle of a 1960s dogfight
> 
> Operation Swift Retort was planned and executed by the Pakistan high command, the correct procedure was followed and to avoid a all out war, it was a measured response
> 
> Indian pilots on the other hand were acting independently basically your descripton and looked what happened



Hi,

You just jumped into the fray and have started making excuses---without knowing the procedure and process involved---even though you are an articulate and knowledgeable poster---.

All evantualities are discussed in pre-flight briefing---that was what the Paf pilots had learnt from USAF pilots training---. 

That is why the Russian Pilots failed---because they did not have prior permission to take on the enemy pilots---no initiative.

This was not a peace mission where you are about to get jumped or a movie that you might have seen and the pilot asking for permission---.

This does not happen in real combat---on a pre-planned strike mission.

On an actual strike mission---the accompanying aircraft would have the permission to engage any enemy aircraft---.

We are in a BVR AENA air combat---where an enemy can shoot at you staying 20-30-40 miles inside of their border---.

We already know that within the 80-90% kill zone of the BVR missile---whomsoever takes the first shots gets the kill---.



Mentee said:


> What if the IAF were to engage our strike package first? Or all airborne IAF aircrafts actually got into a hot pursuits like abhinandon?
> 
> I don't think they would have bought our
> "hey its just tit for tat"
> Excuse.
> 
> Besides the word improvisation consists of only 13 letters - - -.



Hi,

If the indian pilots had launched their missiles first---all our aircraft were toast---.

Thast is why I had stated in prior posts---for the enemy---it was a test run to check the Paf's response for what was to come in the future---.

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## aziqbal

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You just jumped into the fray and have started making excuses---without knowing the procedure and process involved---even though you are an articulate and knowledgeable poster---.
> 
> All evantualities are discussed in pre-flight briefing---that was what the Paf pilots had learnt from USAF pilots training---.
> 
> ..



Read again my post please, I mentioned non-war time, yes war time you are playing different game 

what is the job of the ground air controller can you tell me? Pakistan still using ground based radar to vector fighters in the air ok now we have AWACS but not all the time

We missed many Soviet aircraft during 1980s because our ground communication never relayed the information on time to the fighters doing the intercept this is how it works in peace time, but at no stage did the pilots act independently avoiding a full scale confrontation with Russia

I think your understanding of air combat is a bit lacking



Mentee said:


> What if the IAF were to engage our strike package first? Or all airborne IAF aircrafts actually got into a hot pursuits like abhinandon?
> 
> - - -.



what are you saying that Pakistan air defence controllers should not have been employed in operation swift retort? one of them even got a award 

i dont understand what the point is here, do people here know more than PAF who executed a text book interception ?

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## DJ_Viper

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hello @MastanKhan
> Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
> 
> Permission or no Permission.



I couldn't help but to jump into this. Very interesting thread with lots of opinions it seems.

Even for the USAF / USN, clearance to Fox is a must. This isn't WWII that no real tech exists, you can now track enemies from 100's of miles away. The only time there won't be a clear to Fox approval is when you scrambled hot (defensive), but IFF would still be needed and communicated / affirmed.

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## BATMAN

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you for an excellent excellent post---.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> That is a mentality of incompetence on part of the Paf and of Low Self Esteem---.
> 
> The US police has a 21 ft rule---. If a threat gets into your 21ft circle of radius there is a good chance that you might die---.
> 
> If they get into 10-12 ft radius---then you may consider yourself dead---.
> 
> On the civilian side---a person can claim self defense when the other person either touches them or gets physically close where you feel threatened---.
> 
> In the Paf's case the border or line of control was a drama to hide their incompetence---.
> 
> If the enemy had fired their BVR's at paf aircraft---the line of control would not have become a wall to have stopped those missiles---.
> 
> Just the mere presence of those aircraft in an area of conflict was the reason to take them down---.
> 
> The cowardice started on the side of the Paf---when they did not declare the indian strike and act of war---that happened on the 26th---.
> 
> After that---everything that happened was for the Paf to save its face.
> 
> I will take it to the next level----the real TREASON BY PAKISTAN MILITARY happened when the ISPR etc started giving out details of the poor quality equipment that the indian air force had---.
> 
> What they were telling the IAF was to correct their deficiency for future so that we are not able to attack you---.
> 
> @crankthatskunk @Mangus Ortus Novem @BATMAN



Agreed 100%, ISPR and military acted like an excited child... but `impotent' would define best.
Only good reason come to mind is that, WoT has lead to premature promotions. Apparently, current leadership do not come close to the bench mark set by their predecessor, who were 180° in thought process and would never let PM influence military operations.
If inquiry commission can be held on how poorly Musharraf executed Kargil. Than why not on bloody obvious limbo. Excuse by ISPR, ''they hurt our trees so we decided to hurt their trees''. Which was thrown out of window on the 6th September program, aired on national TV, where pilots told the truth, which narrates a different tale.
As the time progressed and we saw constitutional amendments in favor of individuals, confirms all apprehensions of wheeling dealing happened on 27th February.

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## DJ_Viper

MastanKhan said:


> If the indian pilots had launched their missiles first---all our aircraft were toast---.
> 
> Thast is why I had stated in prior posts---for the enemy---it was a test run to check the Paf's response for what was to come in the future---.



I share the same opinion, this was done to 1: spread the surgical strike message to cool off the Indian population and 2: to understand PAF's response tactics, style and weapons, while, identifying weaknesses on IAF's side. And they've taken the task to fix the weaknesses to heart very quickly.

It doesn't make sense when your Radars & IFF transponders scream F-16's and you send in Mig-21's (primarily point defense) to fight the other side's most advance weapon systems. The real competition to block 52 is truly the SU-30 (even somewhat superior due to heavy aerodynamic, tvc and long raneg radar with jamming resistance). 

If I was a strategic leader in PAF, I'd be upgrading the JF-17's with AESA's, range, more credible long range missiles & 9 hard-points. This platform has got to come closer to a mid-sized jet.

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## PurpleButcher

aziqbal said:


> what are you saying that Pakistan air defence controllers should not have been employed in operation swift retort? one of them even got a award
> 
> i dont understand what the point is here, do people here know more than PAF who executed a text book interception ?



The point MK is trying too make is simple
When u have 
1) Awacs in Air
2) AVM in Air
3) You know a confrontation is about to take place
4) You must have had a pre strike detailed briefing 

Then
1) There should have been clear instructions given to pilots when to engage/when not to without taking permissions from avm who was taking permission from someone on the ground. This long chain of command should be non existent.
2) This lack of decisiveness caused seconds of delay in decision making which could have resulted in the enemy taking advantage and firing first.

In a war time, pilots should be clear headed and given the authority to take executive decision as per the limitations set by senior command during the pre flight briefing! Once in the air, the pilots should not be wasting critical time and getting bureaucratic approvals!!

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## DJ_Viper

BATMAN said:


> Excuse by ISPR, ''they hurt our trees so we decided to hurt their trees''. Which was thrown out of window on the 6th September program, aired on national TV, where pilots told the truth, which narrates a different tale.
> As the time progressed and we saw constitutional amendments in favor of individuals, confirms all apprehensions of wheeling dealing happened on 27th February.



What did the pilots say and what amendments were passed? Curious to find out...


----------



## BATMAN

aziqbal said:


> this is what Arabs do and look how it ended for them


What's now with Arabs?

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## MastanKhan

aziqbal said:


> Read again my post please, I mentioned non-war time, yes war time you are playing different game
> 
> what is the job of the ground air controller can you tell me? Pakistan still using ground based radar to vector fighters in the air ok now we have AWACS but not all the time
> 
> We missed many Soviet aircraft during 1980s because our ground communication never relayed the information on time to the fighters doing the intercept this is how it works in peace time, but at no stage did the pilots act independently avoiding a full scale confrontation with Russia
> 
> I think your understanding of air combat is a bit lacking
> 
> 
> 
> what are you saying that Pakistan air defence controllers should not have been employed in operation swift retort? one of them even got a award
> 
> i dont understand what the point is here, do people here know more than PAF who executed a text book interception ?



Hi,

Sir---there is NO ROLE of ground air controller in this case---. Th awacs are in the air---an AVM would be in the surveillance Saab aircraft---another AVM flying back seat in the F16---but that should not have made any difference and neither the awacs in air---.

The aircraft were getting a lock on their own on multiple enemy aircraft---. That should have been decided on the ground before the flight took place---what to do when that happened.

That was the part of the " what if " situations that was what M M Alam bragged about the Paf---that the Paf pilot briefing before the mission covered the what if in detail and he was in charge of any immediate issues that popped up---.

80's was a totally different time period---no surveillance aircraft for pakistan---just depending on the ground controller all the time---but if an enemy aircraft popped up in front of you in your target range---you took the shot---.

Worst case scenario---the AVM flying with the pilots should have taken charge and given the g ahead---.

The demise of 6 to 8 SU30's and Mirage 2K's would have been a shocking news to the indians and that also from the JF17's---.

The news alone would have sent waves of panic thru enemy air force pilots---.

What I am seeing over here from posters responses is that most don't know the procedure as to what instructions are given to the pilots on a strike mission---.

Paf blew away the INTERCEPT let 7-10 enemy aircraft escape---.

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## Armchair

GriffinsRule said:


> There is no guarantee of that and you can not establish a cause and effect either.
> In an alternate universe, had PAF shot down 8 IAF aircraft and Modi government would have gone and done the same thing in Kashmir anyways, people would have been bashing PAF saying it made that happen by being reckless and now look what that has led to.
> Its easy to cook up fairy tales



Actually that is your opinion but not the truth of the matter. There is always a cause and effect. An impact. There is something called deterence. All these things cannot be willed away by a "it would all be the same" statement. For me, that is not intelligent at all. 

Those of us who have actually studied politics as a subject would tell u that such an assessment is borderline laughable. To simplify: 

1. That Modi would have won the election by showing he has been tough with Pakistan would not have happened. This means Modi _could _have lost the election. Or won it with a weaker margin or in a coalition. 
2. Supposing he had won it, he would have still thought harder and had less political capital to go hard on the Kashmiris
3. Supposing he did that too, there would have still been less pressure on the Pak border as they would remember better the consequences of it. 

Ignoring all of this doesn't mean this didn't happen, any more than an ostrich putting its head in the sand gets rid of the danger it is surrounded with.

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## DJ_Viper

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> The aircraft were getting a lock on their own on multiple enemy aircraft---. That should have been decided on the ground before the flight took place---what to do when that happened.
> 
> The demise of 6 to 8 SU30's and Mirage 2K's would have been a shocking news to the indians and that also from the JF17's---.
> 
> Paf blew away the INTERCEPT let 7-10 enemy aircraft escape---.



It is my understanding (and anyone from the PAF can correct me), that lock-on's from across the border between the two nations are very common, especially when tensions are high. That's because of longer range BVR radars. But there are SOP's, so no firing takes place. If you take down an enemy's jet without provocation, it would be considered an act of war. So the plane must be shot down in your area to "prove" violation of your sovereignty to avoid a full-war, or international pressure as both nations have nuke's.

It is probably that one thing, where firing had to be ONLY allowed when based on the distance & variables, it was determined out of 6 or 8 jets, only 1 or 2 jet's would be fired upon and if hit, these jet/s would drop within Pakistani airspace. Second, it would become an airspace violation again, and lastly and most importantly, it was a "measured" response to send a carrot and stick message.

Now if in theory you really took down 6 jet's (100% kill rate won't happen against Mirage 2k9 and SU-30), that's half a billion dollar loss and would result in a massive air-attack back and there goes the war. So it was done just enough to send a message.

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## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you for an excellent excellent post---.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> That is a mentality of incompetence on part of the Paf and of Low Self Esteem---.
> 
> The US police has a 21 ft rule---. If a threat gets into your 21ft circle of radius there is a good chance that you might die---.
> 
> If they get into 10-12 ft radius---then you may consider yourself dead---.
> 
> On the civilian side---a person can claim self defense when the other person either touches them or gets physically close where you feel threatened---.
> 
> In the Paf's case the border or line of control was a drama to hide their incompetence---.
> 
> If the enemy had fired their BVR's at paf aircraft---the line of control would not have become a wall to have stopped those missiles---.
> 
> Just the mere presence of those aircraft in an area of conflict was the reason to take them down---.
> 
> The cowardice started on the side of the Paf---when they did not declare the indian strike and act of war---that happened on the 26th---.
> 
> After that---everything that happened was for the Paf to save its face.
> 
> I will take it to the next level----the real TREASON BY PAKISTAN MILITARY happened when the ISPR etc started giving out details of the poor quality equipment that the indian air force had---.
> 
> What they were telling the IAF was to correct their deficiency for future so that we are not able to attack you---.
> 
> @crankthatskunk @Mangus Ortus Novem @BATMAN


Hello @MastanKhan

It is not upto PAF to Declare war. PAF's job is to fight the aerial warfare.

As a human I dont like to tell other people that they dont know what they are talking about until and unless they cross into NEZ and my Friend as much as I would Like to annihilate you with some BVR knowledge and Some facts about the Operation but kicking swiftly retort I wont because of 2 reasons.

1) you have made up your mind. 

2) I suspect a bunch of these bastards might be from the other side with possibly False Pakistani Flags.

Strategically and sanely it was a good decision not to take down the remaining "9" because than was would have been inevitable.

"*On that day the voice of 200 million People was represented by a couple of chaps who dared and the whole world listened-------- The PAF might do some things that just confuses the shit out of me and it might take some unconventional strategic decisions but it is my Air force that I depend upon*"

ANYWAYS I AM GOING TO COPY YOUR STYLE OF WRITING I HOPE YOU DONT MIND.



DJ_Viper said:


> I couldn't help but to jump into this. Very interesting thread with lots of opinions it seems.
> 
> Even for the USAF / USN, clearance to Fox is a must. This isn't WWII that no real tech exists, you can now track enemies from 100's of miles away. The only time there won't be a clear to Fox approval is when you scrambled hot (defensive), but IFF would still be needed and communicated / affirmed.


Hello @DJ_Viper In today's aerial warfare permissions are yabits more of a formality but yeah when you scramble and you have a bandit that might be going defensive on you than you can seek permission to shoot the BANDIT if he is not bug-ing out.

Every thing is covered in the Briefing room all shoot parameters addressed and ROE revised.


* The Pilot Knows Better when will be a good time shoot*


It is more of the communication phase about the action that the "*PILOT*" ----an---- "*OFFICER*" is about to take which is being Recorded.

USAF/USN Pilots are trained to take *Independent and just decisions* and so are the Pakistanis. So I am confident that in the Case of swift Retort the Indian Jets were------- FAR FAR AWAY (as Shrek says) they didn't even bother coming close.



If one knows------then they Know what tactics were used to Fight BVR that day,

Cheers.


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## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hello @MastanKhan
> 
> It is not upto PAF to Declare war. PAF's job is to fight the aerial warfare.
> 
> As a human I dont like to tell other people that they dont know what they are talking about until and unless they cross into NEZ and my Friend as much as I would Like to annihilate you with some BVR knowledge and Some facts about the Operation but kicking swiftly retort I wont because of 2 reasons.
> 
> 1) you have made up your mind.
> 
> 2) I suspect a bunch of these bastards might be from the other side with possibly False Pakistani Flags.
> 
> Strategically and sanely it was a good decision not to take down the remaining "9" because than was would have been inevitable.
> 
> "*On that day the voice of 200 million People was represented by a couple of chaps who dared and the whole world listened-------- The PAF might do some things that just confuses the shit out of me and it might take some unconventional strategic decisions but it is my Air force that I depend upon*"
> 
> ANYWAYS I AM GOING TO COPY YOUR STYLE OF WRITING I HOPE YOU DONT MIND.
> 
> 
> Hello @DJ_Viper In today's aerial warfare permissions are yabits more of a formality but yeah when you scramble and you have a bandit that might be going defensive on you than you can seek permission to shoot the BANDIT if he is not bug-ing out.
> 
> Every thing is covered in the Briefing room all shoot parameters addressed and ROE revised.
> 
> 
> * The Pilot Knows Better when will be a good time shoot*
> 
> 
> It is more of the communication phase about the action that the "*PILOT*" ----an---- "*OFFICER*" is about to take which is being Recorded.
> 
> USAF/USN Pilots are trained to take *Independent and just decisions* and so are the Pakistanis. So I am confident that in the Case of swift Retort the Indian Jets were------- FAR FAR AWAY (as Shrek says) they didn't even bother coming close.
> 
> 
> 
> If one knows------then they Know what tactics were used to Fight BVR that day,
> 
> Cheers.



Hi,

If you want to reply---give a straight answer---.

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## MastanKhan

PurpleButcher said:


> The point MK is trying too make is simple
> When u have
> 1) Awacs in Air
> 2) AVM in Air
> 3) You know a confrontation is about to take place
> 4) You must have had a pre strike detailed briefing
> 
> Then
> 1) There should have been clear instructions given to pilots when to engage/when not to without taking permissions from avm who was taking permission from someone on the ground. This long chain of command should be non existent.
> 2) This lack of decisiveness caused seconds of delay in decision making which could have resulted in the enemy taking advantage and firing first.
> 
> In a war time, pilots should be clear headed and given the authority to take executive decision as per the limitations set by senior command during the pre flight briefing! Once in the air, the pilots should not be wasting critical time and getting bureaucratic approvals!!




Hi,

Dangit---I take hours and hours writing these long pages and then you come along and in 2 little paras you submerge what I have been writing for hours---.

Well done & thank you---.



aziqbal said:


> Indian pilots on the other hand were acting independently basically your descripton and looked what happened



Hi,

Indian aircraft's transmissions were jammed at that time---they were entrapped---that is why Paf pilots were getting radar lock on those aircraft---thus they were momentarily helpless like sitting ducks for about 15-16 seconds---. Desperately seeking to run out of the arena into which they had been sucked in and expecting to get a BVR missile up their tail pipe any moment---.



Deino said:


> *can we come back to the topic, which is AZM ... and stop with these constant war-drum discussions*



Hi,

@Deino---project AZM is moving along at a very good pace and as one of our colleagues mentioned---if it was not for Corona---a lots of info would have come out---.

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## kursed

The decision to take out MKI and the Bison were by pilots, where has this info emerged from that they were asking for clearance?

Heck, the MKI was taken out at such a distance that it had to be explained and the pilot explained why he opted to do it. I am not sure how folks here do their thing but almost none of what you lot are discussing here, actually happened. Yes, the Indians were toyed with, but as a decision that was made before this even began. It was decided beforehand to keep the enemy bodycount on the down-low, unless they threatened our aircrafts.

And after two of their aircrafts were shot down, enemy bugged the hell out of the area. This is why they were ordered to not chase them.

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## Mentee

DJ_Viper said:


> . Second, it would become an airspace violation again, and lastly and most importantly, it was a "measured" response to send a carrot and stick message.




Are you sure paf striking 6 Indian military installations wasn't a violation of there airspace or an act of overt aggression ?people need to stop cooking up fantasies coz in real life anyone worth his salt will retaliate even if you poke him with your pinky. 


Hypothetically speaking the only way to not to draw any response from the enemy is to completely given in - - - - -then you can proudly wear your no air violation and escalation badge.

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## Prince Kassad

The really what happened this what happened
The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.





The JF-17 vs Mirage 2000 engagement took place North of J&K as the JF-17s tried to 'push' the M2000s in a 'Red on Red'. The JF-17's NRIET KLJ-7 PD radar did not do well against the M2000s. The JF-17s main job was to keep the M2000s tied up and not move south.
A pair of M21 Bison was scrambled towards the north edge of the Central axis. Another pair was scrambled south west. Abhinandan was part of the SW vector.
The IAF did not have any AWACS on station, the PAF had a Saab 2000 ERIEYE 100 km at 30,000 feet, which controlled the battle space out to 150 Km+ inside India, guiding the HiTech F-16s positioning for Ambushing IAF jets in a designated kill zone in south J&K.
In central Axis, the the F-16s climbed to 40,000 feet and went supersonic. The JF-17s and Mir III/Vs released their payloads out of range due the threat of the M2000s north east of them, whom the JF-17s had not checked effectively
The PAF carried out Comm jamming, which was effective in places. With no AWACS the the IACCS's vectored 2 Su-30MKIs towards Poonch Rajouri. The PAF communication intercepted on the ERIEYE showed that the PAF was vary of the upgraded M2000s moving south.
There were 2x PAF 4 aircraft F-16 formations, one at 40,000 feet and the other undetected at 10-15,000 feet, approaching Nowshera. The plan was to fire the the first volley of AMRAAMS by the 4 F-16s at 40,000 feet, targeting the approaching Su-30MKIs
As the Su-30MKIs would engage in defensive manoeuvring, the second formation of 4 x F-16s at 15,000 feet (which had just finished a LGB run), would target the Su-30MKIs with a second volley of AMRAAMs
The Su-30MKIs picked up the higher pair of F-16s at 35-40,000 feet and anticipated the launch in a 'Red on Red', also cautioned by the GC The Su-30s cranked to reduce their forward travel and being in a position to outrun the AMRAAM's kinematics.
The Su-30MKI's did not get a launch command on their own R27 and RVV-AE AAMs due the differential in the snap up launch, with the F-16s going cold after launching their AMRAAMs
The timely cranking and the chaff helped the Su-30MKIs outmaneuver the AMRAAMs. 5 AIM-120C-5 s were fired on the Sukhois with no hit....
Meanwhile Abhinandan and his No 2 closed into the lower pair of F-16s abeam Nowshera, who were climbing to 25,000 feet to target the Sukhois in a flanking move
It was a 'red on red' for Abhinandan as he was picked up, but pressed on his attack after manually locking his R-73 on a F-16. He fired and turned back. One F-16 was hit and went down. Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a F-16, ejecting successfuly
Three chutes were reported in the area, with widespread reporting by ISPR and Pal handles that they had three pilots in custody. A parachute with Indian colours was seen coming down. For info the C-9 chute on the F-16 seat has white, orange and green colours
The PAF surprised the IAF by launching AAMs from inside Azad Kashmir. The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF AAMs, which did not get launch commands. Keeping the M2000s away from the F-16s was a priority for the PAF.
Abhinandan's act of engaging the lower pair of F-16s disrupted their plan to shoot down an IAF Sukhoi. Abhi scored the first F-16 kill by a Mig-21.

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## PakFactor

Prince Kassad said:


> The really what happened this what happened
> The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.
> The JF-17 vs Mirage 2000 engagement took place North of J&K as the JF-17s tried to 'push' the M2000s in a 'Red on Red'. The JF-17's NRIET KLJ-7 PD radar did not do well against the M2000s. The JF-17s main job was to keep the M2000s tied up and not move south.
> A pair of M21 Bison was scrambled towards the north edge of the Central axis. Another pair was scrambled south west. Abhinandan was part of the SW vector.
> The IAF did not have any AWACS on station, the PAF had a Saab 2000 ERIEYE 100 km at 30,000 feet, which controlled the battle space out to 150 Km+ inside India, guiding the HiTech F-16s positioning for Ambushing IAF jets in a designated kill zone in south J&K.
> In central Axis, the the F-16s climbed to 40,000 feet and went supersonic. The JF-17s and Mir III/Vs released their payloads out of range due the threat of the M2000s north east of them, whom the JF-17s had not checked effectively
> The PAF carried out Comm jamming, which was effective in places. With no AWACS the the IACCS's vectored 2 Su-30MKIs towards Poonch Rajouri. The PAF communication intercepted on the ERIEYE showed that the PAF was vary of the upgraded M2000s moving south.
> There were 2x PAF 4 aircraft F-16 formations, one at 40,000 feet and the other undetected at 10-15,000 feet, approaching Nowshera. The plan was to fire the the first volley of AMRAAMS by the 4 F-16s at 40,000 feet, targeting the approaching Su-30MKIs
> As the Su-30MKIs would engage in defensive manoeuvring, the second formation of 4 x F-16s at 15,000 feet (which had just finished a LGB run), would target the Su-30MKIs with a second volley of AMRAAMs
> The Su-30MKIs picked up the higher pair of F-16s at 35-40,000 feet and anticipated the launch in a 'Red on Red', also cautioned by the GC The Su-30s cranked to reduce their forward travel and being in a position to outrun the AMRAAM's kinematics.
> The Su-30MKI's did not get a launch command on their own R27 and RVV-AE AAMs due the differential in the snap up launch, with the F-16s going cold after launching their AMRAAMs
> The timely cranking and the chaff helped the Su-30MKIs outmaneuver the AMRAAMs. 5 AIM-120C-5 s were fired on the Sukhois with no hit....
> Meanwhile Abhinandan and his No 2 closed into the lower pair of F-16s abeam Nowshera, who were climbing to 25,000 feet to target the Sukhois in a flanking move
> It was a 'red on red' for Abhinandan as he was picked up, but pressed on his attack after manually locking his R-73 on a F-16. He fired and turned back. One F-16 was hit and went down. Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a F-16, ejecting successfuly
> Three chutes were reported in the area, with widespread reporting by ISPR and Pal handles that they had three pilots in custody. A parachute with Indian colours was seen coming down. For info the C-9 chute on the F-16 seat has white, orange and green colours
> The PAF surprised the IAF by launching AAMs from inside Azad Kashmir. The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF AAMs, which did not get launch commands. Keeping the M2000s away from the F-16s was a priority for the PAF.
> Abhinandan's act of engaging the lower pair of F-16s disrupted their plan to shoot down an IAF Sukhoi. Abhi scored the first F-16 kill by a Mig-21.



What a load of garage I just read. JF-17 radars didn’t perform well etc (you were sitting in the pilots lap that you would know?), among other nonsense you wrote.

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## Sidacca

Prince Kassad said:


> The really what happened this what happened
> The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.
> The JF-17 vs Mirage 2000 engagement took place North of J&K as the JF-17s tried to 'push' the M2000s in a 'Red on Red'. The JF-17's NRIET KLJ-7 PD radar did not do well against the M2000s. The JF-17s main job was to keep the M2000s tied up and not move south.
> A pair of M21 Bison was scrambled towards the north edge of the Central axis. Another pair was scrambled south west. Abhinandan was part of the SW vector.
> The IAF did not have any AWACS on station, the PAF had a Saab 2000 ERIEYE 100 km at 30,000 feet, which controlled the battle space out to 150 Km+ inside India, guiding the HiTech F-16s positioning for Ambushing IAF jets in a designated kill zone in south J&K.
> In central Axis, the the F-16s climbed to 40,000 feet and went supersonic. The JF-17s and Mir III/Vs released their payloads out of range due the threat of the M2000s north east of them, whom the JF-17s had not checked effectively
> The PAF carried out Comm jamming, which was effective in places. With no AWACS the the IACCS's vectored 2 Su-30MKIs towards Poonch Rajouri. The PAF communication intercepted on the ERIEYE showed that the PAF was vary of the upgraded M2000s moving south.
> There were 2x PAF 4 aircraft F-16 formations, one at 40,000 feet and the other undetected at 10-15,000 feet, approaching Nowshera. The plan was to fire the the first volley of AMRAAMS by the 4 F-16s at 40,000 feet, targeting the approaching Su-30MKIs
> As the Su-30MKIs would engage in defensive manoeuvring, the second formation of 4 x F-16s at 15,000 feet (which had just finished a LGB run), would target the Su-30MKIs with a second volley of AMRAAMs
> The Su-30MKIs picked up the higher pair of F-16s at 35-40,000 feet and anticipated the launch in a 'Red on Red', also cautioned by the GC The Su-30s cranked to reduce their forward travel and being in a position to outrun the AMRAAM's kinematics.
> The Su-30MKI's did not get a launch command on their own R27 and RVV-AE AAMs due the differential in the snap up launch, with the F-16s going cold after launching their AMRAAMs
> The timely cranking and the chaff helped the Su-30MKIs outmaneuver the AMRAAMs. 5 AIM-120C-5 s were fired on the Sukhois with no hit....
> Meanwhile Abhinandan and his No 2 closed into the lower pair of F-16s abeam Nowshera, who were climbing to 25,000 feet to target the Sukhois in a flanking move
> It was a 'red on red' for Abhinandan as he was picked up, but pressed on his attack after manually locking his R-73 on a F-16. He fired and turned back. One F-16 was hit and went down. Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a F-16, ejecting successfuly
> Three chutes were reported in the area, with widespread reporting by ISPR and Pal handles that they had three pilots in custody. A parachute with Indian colours was seen coming down. For info the C-9 chute on the F-16 seat has white, orange and green colours
> The PAF surprised the IAF by launching AAMs from inside Azad Kashmir. The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF AAMs, which did not get launch commands. Keeping the M2000s away from the F-16s was a priority for the PAF.
> Abhinandan's act of engaging the lower pair of F-16s disrupted their plan to shoot down an IAF Sukhoi. Abhi scored the first F-16 kill by a Mig-21.


I was agree to your post until I read f16 was hit...... No f16 is lost that's clear only mig21 lost, please come out of your bollywood world.... Abhinandan didn't fire any missile all of them are intact and recovered. Thanks


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## serenity

Very skillful writing for fiction. Where can someone with such good imagination have made up all these details. Amazing work Prince Kassad. Maybe you really do know and you saw every detail with God's eye from both sides.

Indian airforce could not manage to shoot down single Pakistan Mirage, F-16 or JF-17 with India's Su-30 or Mirage 2000 or even Mig-21. If Mig-21 actually did kill F-16 how come American say this is not true and how come all Mig-21 missiles recovered? I don't understand how some people can still believe F-16 story. For me I don't know if Pakistan killed any Su-30 but also find it very strange why India a few days or maybe week later formally acknowledge losing at least two Su-30 pilots due to some accident. Of course this may be true and just coincidence but comparing Su-30 story with F-16 story, the evidence is suggesting F-16 in unlikely defeated and Su-30 is possible that it was defeated. I don't care either way only looking at this from fair perspective. For one thing to consider, China uses Su-30 and no F-16 so of course I would love for Su-30 or even Mig-21 to be able to defeat F-16.

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## DrWatson775

aziqbal said:


> No and No
> 
> communication and information between air and land is crucial part of pilot training, its fundamental the Air Force pilots take orders not decisions this is drilled in from day one, you step outside this domain you are dismissed no matter how senior you are, this is how it works in the military, why> because you follow plans and instructions
> 
> this is what Arabs do and look how it ended for them
> 
> Pakistani pilots are disciplined and robust, and in a non-war time footing every order has to followed they are not in the middle of a 1960s dogfight
> 
> Operation Swift Retort was planned and executed by the Pakistan high command, the correct procedure was followed and to avoid a all out war, it was a measured response
> 
> Indian pilots on the other hand were acting independently basically your descripton and looked what happened



Please read my post again. Yes orders and objectives are clarified in briefings but there is something here that doesn't add up. I will say again that I believe in aerial warfare you need to detect and fire first - I am no expert but this is a no brainer. Asking for permission to protect the strike aircraft is a waste of time that can cost you dearly. 

I believe permission was only given to shoot at the leading SU30 and not his wingman which begs the question ❔ - why shoot at one of them when both of them in formation are a threat. This is too much restraint. If the argument is well fire at one and the other will know to back off then I believe this is a mistake. By the time the lead SU30's RWR sounds( when the amraam goes active) several seconds would have passed, add to that many more seconds if the wingman doesn't back off and you have given him enough time to lock and launch all his BVRs. Dont hate me for saying this but PAF got a bit lucky while showing too much restraint.

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## Prince Kassad

serenity said:


> Very skillful writing for fiction. Where can someone with such good imagination have made up all these details. Amazing work Prince Kassad. Maybe you really do know and you saw every detail with God's eye from both sides.
> 
> Indian airforce could not manage to shoot down single Pakistan Mirage, F-16 or JF-17 with India's Su-30 or Mirage 2000 or even Mig-21. If Mig-21 actually did kill F-16 how come American say this is not true and how come all Mig-21 missiles recovered? I don't understand how some people can still believe F-16 story. For me I don't know if Pakistan killed any Su-30 but also find it very strange why India a few days or maybe week later formally acknowledge losing at least two Su-30 pilots due to some accident. Of course this may be true and just coincidence but comparing Su-30 story with F-16 story, the evidence is suggesting F-16 in unlikely defeated and Su-30 is possible that it was defeated. I don't care either way only looking at this from fair perspective. For one thing to consider, China uses Su-30 and no F-16 so of course I would love for Su-30 or even Mig-21 to be able to defeat F-16.





A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.



2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.

3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms




4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html




5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.

6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms




7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video. 





- the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link - 






8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory : 







I hope this was more informative for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.

EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.

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## Cuirassier

Jai Hind Sir! Truth has been revealed. All hail mighty Vayusena. 


Prince Kassad said:


> A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.
> 
> 3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this was more informative for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.
> 
> EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.

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## DrWatson775

Prince Kassad said:


> The really what happened this what happened
> The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The JF-17 vs Mirage 2000 engagement took place North of J&K as the JF-17s tried to 'push' the M2000s in a 'Red on Red'. The JF-17's NRIET KLJ-7 PD radar did not do well against the M2000s. The JF-17s main job was to keep the M2000s tied up and not move south.
> A pair of M21 Bison was scrambled towards the north edge of the Central axis. Another pair was scrambled south west. Abhinandan was part of the SW vector.
> The IAF did not have any AWACS on station, the PAF had a Saab 2000 ERIEYE 100 km at 30,000 feet, which controlled the battle space out to 150 Km+ inside India, guiding the HiTech F-16s positioning for Ambushing IAF jets in a designated kill zone in south J&K.
> In central Axis, the the F-16s climbed to 40,000 feet and went supersonic. The JF-17s and Mir III/Vs released their payloads out of range due the threat of the M2000s north east of them, whom the JF-17s had not checked effectively
> The PAF carried out Comm jamming, which was effective in places. With no AWACS the the IACCS's vectored 2 Su-30MKIs towards Poonch Rajouri. The PAF communication intercepted on the ERIEYE showed that the PAF was vary of the upgraded M2000s moving south.
> There were 2x PAF 4 aircraft F-16 formations, one at 40,000 feet and the other undetected at 10-15,000 feet, approaching Nowshera. The plan was to fire the the first volley of AMRAAMS by the 4 F-16s at 40,000 feet, targeting the approaching Su-30MKIs
> As the Su-30MKIs would engage in defensive manoeuvring, the second formation of 4 x F-16s at 15,000 feet (which had just finished a LGB run), would target the Su-30MKIs with a second volley of AMRAAMs
> The Su-30MKIs picked up the higher pair of F-16s at 35-40,000 feet and anticipated the launch in a 'Red on Red', also cautioned by the GC The Su-30s cranked to reduce their forward travel and being in a position to outrun the AMRAAM's kinematics.
> The Su-30MKI's did not get a launch command on their own R27 and RVV-AE AAMs due the differential in the snap up launch, with the F-16s going cold after launching their AMRAAMs
> The timely cranking and the chaff helped the Su-30MKIs outmaneuver the AMRAAMs. 5 AIM-120C-5 s were fired on the Sukhois with no hit....
> Meanwhile Abhinandan and his No 2 closed into the lower pair of F-16s abeam Nowshera, who were climbing to 25,000 feet to target the Sukhois in a flanking move
> It was a 'red on red' for Abhinandan as he was picked up, but pressed on his attack after manually locking his R-73 on a F-16. He fired and turned back. One F-16 was hit and went down. Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a F-16, ejecting successfuly
> Three chutes were reported in the area, with widespread reporting by ISPR and Pal handles that they had three pilots in custody. A parachute with Indian colours was seen coming down. For info the C-9 chute on the F-16 seat has white, orange and green colours
> The PAF surprised the IAF by launching AAMs from inside Azad Kashmir. The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF AAMs, which did not get launch commands. Keeping the M2000s away from the F-16s was a priority for the PAF.
> Abhinandan's act of engaging the lower pair of F-16s disrupted their plan to shoot down an IAF Sukhoi. Abhi scored the first F-16 kill by a Mig-21.



You write well but garbage is just garbage no matter how well written it is. 

1. Abhinandan has never claimed a kill. 
2. Independant experts (not from Pakistan) have examined his aircraft remains and no missile was fired. 
3. Abhinandan is on record saying that he was looking for PAF fighters when he was hit. 
4. Count of F16s is done - reported by independant sources, all accounted for. Where is the SU30 count? 
5. You cant swallow that Chinese/Pak made JF17s and 50 yrs old Mirages struck Indian military garrisons and have to come up with F16s dropping bombs. 
6. Bombs landed in Indian military garrisons and where is India's response???? Perhaps it was " Rafale ke kami mehsoos hoi ". Is that all?

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## Imran Khan

Prince Kassad said:


> A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.
> 
> 2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.
> 
> 3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this was more informative for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.
> 
> EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.


you guys have any shame left or finished ? you loss in minutes of air battle when you start shooting own air force with missiles . the panic was so deep in your forces that they forget what to do 

this is the only victory of india on 27 feb only thing you shot down was own chopper and kill all six on it

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## Falcon26

Prince Kassad said:


> A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.
> 
> 2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.
> 
> 3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this was more informative for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.
> 
> EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.



The fact that Indians believe an F-16 was shot down despite all the MIG-21 weapons are with Pakistan shows what sort of delusional Indians suffer from. Never seen anything close to such a mass delusion.

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## Imran Khan

Falcon26 said:


> The fact that Indians believe an F-16 was shot down despite all the MIG-21 weapons are with Pakistan shows what sort of delusional Indians suffer from. Never seen anything close to such a mass delusion.


after recent ISPR show case of mig-21 weapons and wreckage they better forget it . but they come up with new stories . just wait few years and they will say it was not mig-21 it was pakistnai f-7 that was down that day

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## Falcon26

Imran Khan said:


> after recent ISPR show case of mig-21 weapons and wreckage they better forget it . but they come up with new stories . just wait few years and they will say it was not mig-21 it was pakistnai f-7 that was down that day



They can’t stomach the fact their “rising super power” was smacked silly and humiliated on a global scale by a country 10x smaller. Crazy conspiracies are being churned out on a daily basis to cover up their screw up but with each new conspiracy theory, they end up digging themselves deeper holes.

They have yet to convince a single reputable neutral source of their delusions, so they attack the entire world as being in bed with Pakistan; the same Pakistan that we have been told for years is isolated and has no friends.

Pakistan is truly lucky to have such people as enemies.

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## Suriya

Falcon26 said:


> The fact that Indians believe an F-16 was shot down despite all the MIG-21 weapons are with Pakistan shows what sort of delusional Indians suffer from. Never seen anything close to such a mass delusion.


@Imran Khan In pages_ 633 to 647( a long debate_), i had shown how _Right side R-73_ is missing from the Mig21 wreckage site.


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## Imran Khan

Falcon26 said:


> They can’t stomach their “rising super power” was smacked silly and humiliated on a global scale by a country 10x smaller. Crazy conspiracies are being churned out on a daily basis to cover up their screw up but with each new conspiracy theory, they end up digging themselves deeper holes.
> 
> They have yet to convince a single reputable neutral source of their delusions, so they attack the entire world as being in bed with Pakistan; the same Pakistan that we have been told for years is isolated and has no friends.
> 
> Pakistan is truly lucky to have such people as enemies.


the good time was when their mouth peace like Christine Fair show then mirror in delhi  the lady is hardcore anti pakistan pro indian but she even shouted them in delhi for lies

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## Falcon26

Prince Kassad said:


> Why you ashamed of your country flag?
> 
> Isolation on you for us has worked pretty well, Your country is almost bankrupted. oops



My country is the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. Proudly American. Not everyone who calls out your nonsense is Pakistani.

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## TsAr

Prince Kassad said:


> The really what happened this what happened
> The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The JF-17 vs Mirage 2000 engagement took place North of J&K as the JF-17s tried to 'push' the M2000s in a 'Red on Red'. The JF-17's NRIET KLJ-7 PD radar did not do well against the M2000s. The JF-17s main job was to keep the M2000s tied up and not move south.
> A pair of M21 Bison was scrambled towards the north edge of the Central axis. Another pair was scrambled south west. Abhinandan was part of the SW vector.
> The IAF did not have any AWACS on station, the PAF had a Saab 2000 ERIEYE 100 km at 30,000 feet, which controlled the battle space out to 150 Km+ inside India, guiding the HiTech F-16s positioning for Ambushing IAF jets in a designated kill zone in south J&K.
> In central Axis, the the F-16s climbed to 40,000 feet and went supersonic. The JF-17s and Mir III/Vs released their payloads out of range due the threat of the M2000s north east of them, whom the JF-17s had not checked effectively
> The PAF carried out Comm jamming, which was effective in places. With no AWACS the the IACCS's vectored 2 Su-30MKIs towards Poonch Rajouri. The PAF communication intercepted on the ERIEYE showed that the PAF was vary of the upgraded M2000s moving south.
> There were 2x PAF 4 aircraft F-16 formations, one at 40,000 feet and the other undetected at 10-15,000 feet, approaching Nowshera. The plan was to fire the the first volley of AMRAAMS by the 4 F-16s at 40,000 feet, targeting the approaching Su-30MKIs
> As the Su-30MKIs would engage in defensive manoeuvring, the second formation of 4 x F-16s at 15,000 feet (which had just finished a LGB run), would target the Su-30MKIs with a second volley of AMRAAMs
> The Su-30MKIs picked up the higher pair of F-16s at 35-40,000 feet and anticipated the launch in a 'Red on Red', also cautioned by the GC The Su-30s cranked to reduce their forward travel and being in a position to outrun the AMRAAM's kinematics.
> The Su-30MKI's did not get a launch command on their own R27 and RVV-AE AAMs due the differential in the snap up launch, with the F-16s going cold after launching their AMRAAMs
> The timely cranking and the chaff helped the Su-30MKIs outmaneuver the AMRAAMs. 5 AIM-120C-5 s were fired on the Sukhois with no hit....
> Meanwhile Abhinandan and his No 2 closed into the lower pair of F-16s abeam Nowshera, who were climbing to 25,000 feet to target the Sukhois in a flanking move
> It was a 'red on red' for Abhinandan as he was picked up, but pressed on his attack after manually locking his R-73 on a F-16. He fired and turned back. One F-16 was hit and went down. Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a F-16, ejecting successfuly
> Three chutes were reported in the area, with widespread reporting by ISPR and Pal handles that they had three pilots in custody. A parachute with Indian colours was seen coming down. For info the C-9 chute on the F-16 seat has white, orange and green colours
> The PAF surprised the IAF by launching AAMs from inside Azad Kashmir. The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF AAMs, which did not get launch commands. Keeping the M2000s away from the F-16s was a priority for the PAF.
> Abhinandan's act of engaging the lower pair of F-16s disrupted their plan to shoot down an IAF Sukhoi. Abhi scored the first F-16 kill by a Mig-21.


This looks like it came straight from a Bollywood movie.......I have heard BS Dhanoa interview in which he said that IAF awacs were airborne and they recorded everything, even the downing of F-16, how could you say that IAF had no AWACS airborne.

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## DrWatson775

Suriya said:


> @Imran Khan In pages_ 633 to 647( a long debate_), i had shown how _Right side R-73_ is missing from the Mig21 wreckage site.


Did you inspect the wreckage site or just the wreckage after it was recovered? Was the motor from one of the missiles still hot when you were at the site of the wreckage?

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## Jammer

It is to be expected for our Indian friends and false flag Indian friends on this forum to be upset and try to salvage some pride or make the PAF look like idiots. However, the facts do not change; operation swift retort was executed with a level of professionalism and precision that is staggering. The mission was carried out down to the "T" as per brief. Ground control, AWAC, counter measures crews and pilots were beautifully in sync and as a result a Bison and a SU 30 (that met shoot down parameters and protocol) were taken out, with no loss of own aircraft. This was no ordinary take down where the adversary had some sort of chance, they were taken down blinded, confused and disoriented. This kind of merciless domination has ripple effects in the morale and psyche of the air warriors on the other side for generations to come. The mysterious simultaneous radar malfunction and consequent bug out of all Mirage 2000's in the engagement is a real time manifestation of the fear factor that is now going to take some doing to wrench out of its airmen at the IAF. 

The objective was not to start an all out war but to return the favor of IAF's previous attempt at invading PAK airspace with the intent to do "surgical" damage. Why didn't the PAF not start an all out war and perhaps take out more planes? I am assuming most of us here (besides those that have a different agenda) are not 12 years old and understand or can at least visualize/comprehend the consequences of an all out war between two nuclear powered nations. False flaggers will obviously try to play this out as PAF's incompetence, most adults in this forum with an IQ higher than a garden gnome will however see through it immediately. However, some (maybe) well wishing young and impressionable ones will fall into the false flaggers trap and start belittling the PAF. It is the latter I address; learn, be smart, know when you are being used as a pawn and see these false flaggers as who they really are. If you are a Pakistani you have every reason to be beaming with pride!

As always, when talking about the IAF I end with a warning, they are NOT incompetent and the PAF knows that very well. We won round one with a KNOCKOUT, but rest assured they have learnt. My money however is on the PAF, they are definitely not resting on any laurels.

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## Tomcats

Prince Kassad said:


> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart


Now this is the major issue here, if a F16 actually went down then where is the evidence? There are numerous videos and wreckage on the Mig21bis while there is little to prove on the F16 crash other than Videos of the mig21 going down from a different angle, Usage of sketchy and inconsistent eyewitness reports is used and most images provide only circumstantial evidence no direct evidence. To put the nail in the coffin, the US sent it's own representatives to perform a personal check which is very vigorous as Americans are pretty stringent when it comes to keeping inventory of their equipment. Hence the conclusion is no F16 was downed unless proven otherwise.


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## Myth_buster_1

Prince Kassad said:


> The really what happened this what happened
> The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The JF-17 vs Mirage 2000 engagement took place North of J&K as the JF-17s tried to 'push' the M2000s in a 'Red on Red'. The JF-17's NRIET KLJ-7 PD radar did not do well against the M2000s. The JF-17s main job was to keep the M2000s tied up and not move south.
> A pair of M21 Bison was scrambled towards the north edge of the Central axis. Another pair was scrambled south west. Abhinandan was part of the SW vector.
> The IAF did not have any AWACS on station, the PAF had a Saab 2000 ERIEYE 100 km at 30,000 feet, which controlled the battle space out to 150 Km+ inside India, guiding the HiTech F-16s positioning for Ambushing IAF jets in a designated kill zone in south J&K.
> In central Axis, the the F-16s climbed to 40,000 feet and went supersonic. The JF-17s and Mir III/Vs released their payloads out of range due the threat of the M2000s north east of them, whom the JF-17s had not checked effectively
> The PAF carried out Comm jamming, which was effective in places. With no AWACS the the IACCS's vectored 2 Su-30MKIs towards Poonch Rajouri. The PAF communication intercepted on the ERIEYE showed that the PAF was vary of the upgraded M2000s moving south.
> There were 2x PAF 4 aircraft F-16 formations, one at 40,000 feet and the other undetected at 10-15,000 feet, approaching Nowshera. The plan was to fire the the first volley of AMRAAMS by the 4 F-16s at 40,000 feet, targeting the approaching Su-30MKIs
> As the Su-30MKIs would engage in defensive manoeuvring, the second formation of 4 x F-16s at 15,000 feet (which had just finished a LGB run), would target the Su-30MKIs with a second volley of AMRAAMs
> The Su-30MKIs picked up the higher pair of F-16s at 35-40,000 feet and anticipated the launch in a 'Red on Red', also cautioned by the GC The Su-30s cranked to reduce their forward travel and being in a position to outrun the AMRAAM's kinematics.
> The Su-30MKI's did not get a launch command on their own R27 and RVV-AE AAMs due the differential in the snap up launch, with the F-16s going cold after launching their AMRAAMs
> The timely cranking and the chaff helped the Su-30MKIs outmaneuver the AMRAAMs. 5 AIM-120C-5 s were fired on the Sukhois with no hit....
> Meanwhile Abhinandan and his No 2 closed into the lower pair of F-16s abeam Nowshera, who were climbing to 25,000 feet to target the Sukhois in a flanking move
> It was a 'red on red' for Abhinandan as he was picked up, but pressed on his attack after manually locking his R-73 on a F-16. He fired and turned back. One F-16 was hit and went down. Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a F-16, ejecting successfuly
> Three chutes were reported in the area, with widespread reporting by ISPR and Pal handles that they had three pilots in custody. A parachute with Indian colours was seen coming down. For info the C-9 chute on the F-16 seat has white, orange and green colours
> The PAF surprised the IAF by launching AAMs from inside Azad Kashmir. The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF AAMs, which did not get launch commands. Keeping the M2000s away from the F-16s was a priority for the PAF.
> Abhinandan's act of engaging the lower pair of F-16s disrupted their plan to shoot down an IAF Sukhoi. Abhi scored the first F-16 kill by a Mig-21.



These Indiots always come one by one with same old bu1lsh1t which has been debunked billion times by now.



Prince Kassad said:


> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> .



Indiot. 
Those two parachutes belong to Mig-21. One for pilot and one for ejection seat.


----------



## ziaulislam

Issam said:


> Now this is the major issue here, if a F16 actually went down then where is the evidence? There are numerous videos and wreckage on the Mig21bis while there is little to prove on the F16 crash other than Videos of the mig21 going down from a different angle, Usage of sketchy and inconsistent eyewitness reports is used and most images provide only circumstantial evidence no direct evidence. To put the nail in the coffin, the US sent it's own representatives to perform a personal check which is very vigorous as Americans are pretty stringent when it comes to keeping inventory of their equipment. Hence the conclusion is no F16 was downed unless proven otherwise.


If 30cm satellite images cant change indian minds ..this kinda logic wont work..
Deep down i feel bad for them humilated really bad and losing 6 men and three aircrafts ..truely a disaster ..


----------



## DJ_Viper

Mentee said:


> Are you sure paf striking 6 Indian military installations wasn't a violation of there airspace or an act of overt aggression ?people need to stop cooking up fantasies coz in real life anyone worth his salt will retaliate even if you poke him with your pinky.
> 
> 
> Hypothetically speaking the only way to not to draw any response from the enemy is to completely given in - - - - -then you can proudly wear your no air violation and escalation badge.



Ok, my friend, I am not 17, nor do I indulge in useless arguments. Under the agreed upon world laws, it is permissible to target the nearest and origination point of an attack by the retaliatory nation. So naturally, the retaliation on trees (like the attack on trees) comes under that. Neither side really "damaged" anything. Both sides used standoff munitions from WITHIN their airspace, or, within allowed upon circle of error probability (5 miles or 10 may be?).

Now, taking down 1 or 2 jet's cleared to engage due to their proximity to the border and potential fall within the airspace, makes sense. AMRAAM isn't a Godly missile that it hits 100%. I can't imagine 4 SU-30's and 2 Mirage 2000-5K9's getting hit one by one. That's dreamland. 

Mirage's defensive suite (even when the PAF jammed it's radars), works on close proximity of the missile and is one of the best (same advance versions used on EFT and Rafale). So let's stay realistic. But pretending all 6 jet's were shot down, that would've triggered a war. Which is exactly what neither side wanted to do when they attacked each other's trees. But that attack cost IAF a Mig-21 and a SU-30. I am sure IAF's morale since then has been terrible. That's serious enough of a message.


----------



## airomerix

Prince Kassad said:


> A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.
> 
> 2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.
> 
> 3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this was more informative for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.
> 
> EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.



I stopped reading when you wrote Block 52 D's went somewhere.

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## Safriz

Prince Kassad said:


> A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.
> 
> 2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.
> 
> 3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this was more informative for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.
> 
> EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.


Great story for the next Bollywood movie in which some Indian women will shake their rear end violently.
But far from reality.
All 4 Abhinandan missiles are in PAF custody and he couldn't fire any.
In his own words he said " I was looking for targets".
He was lost as communication was jammed. He didn't know where he was as he asked villagers if it's India or Pakistan.
He never saw the AMRAAM coming and was taken by surprise.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ultima Thule

Prince Kassad said:


> A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.
> 
> 2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.
> 
> 3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this was more informatisve for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.
> 
> EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.


Nice indian version of story but reality is opposite, f-16 were not in strike package only six mirages and six JFT in the strike package, Our F-16 doing CAP well inside the Pakistani airspace
And no one buys your narrative, World agrees Pakistani narratives, And in fact its technically impossible that you vedic/ out of this universe junk Mig-21 shoot down F-16, Because it has lots of design limitations, You indiot


----------



## Prince Kassad

IAU said:


> Nice indian version of story but reality is opposite, f-16 were not in strike package only six mirages and six JFT in the strike package, Our F-16 doing CAP well inside the Pakistani airspace
> And no one buys your narrative, World agrees Pakistani narratives, And in fact its technically impossible that you vedic/ out of this universe junk Mig-21 shoot down F-16, Because it has lots of design limitations, You indiot



I posted poof, its got deleted.






Maybe error my end, let me re try posting. There is plenty evidence. you can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality

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## ziaulislam

Prince Kassad said:


> I posted poof, its got deleted.


PAF has 4 AAM missiles of mig21 even if PAF had none it would be illogical that abhi shot down a f16 simply *because he was blind and PAF had hawk eyes AWECS *in the eyes and F16 would never have gone close enough to be caught by mig21
IAF claim it was short-range AAM, even if it was long-range r77 it would be stupid as AIM 120C would have been fired from pretty long distance
*
f16s were in flighter sweep mode(confirmed by uncle sam) they weren't used for strikes in india..anyway F16 do not carry any stand off weapons

in nutshell there 18 different reasons why abhi shooting down f16 is ludicrous..i would believe a UFO at this point rather than that story..this is true for any expert around the world 

F16 story is for gullible public like you and for Modi reelection, IAF already knows the truth *

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## Myth_buster_1

Prince Kassad said:


> I posted poof, its got deleted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe error my end, let me re try posting. There is plenty evidence. you can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality



Indiot

The two parachutes are Mi-21's. One for pilot and one for ejection seat and this parachute also resembles Indian flag. If you are referring to the villager's video the guy also says Pakistani flag has green meaning the parachute had no green on it.

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## Suriya

ziaulislam said:


> PAF has 4 AAM missiles of mig21 even if PAF had none it would be illogical that abhi shot down a f16 simply *because he was blind and PAF had hawk eyes AWECS *in the eyes and F16 would never have gone close enough to be caught by mig21
> IAF claim it was short-range AAM


*R-73 selected* was the last message delivered by Mig 21 before crash.
R-73 is heat seeking WVR missile and can't be jammed by electronic counter measures.


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## Prince Kassad

_in a clear effort to shift the focus of attention away from the shooting down of the PAF F-16 and the fate of the other downed pilot._

*But Why?*


----------



## The Accountant

Prince Kassad said:


> _in a clear effort to shift the focus of attention away from the shooting down of the PAF F-16 and the fate of the other downed pilot._
> 
> *But Why?*



U guys still dreaming of shooting f16 ... hahaha ... wakeup ...


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## Prince Kassad

The Accountant said:


> U guys still dreaming of shooting f16 ... hahaha ... wakeup ...



Lets agree to disagree, No pakistani will agree f16 was down How much ever proof there is. 

Pakistan got mig 21 at the cost of, India got kashmir. 

Topic closed.


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## The Accountant

Suriya said:


> *R-73 selected* was the last message delivered by Mig 21 before crash.
> R-73 is heat seeking WVR missile and can't be jammed by electronic counter measures.


All missiles of mig21 shown. How the message delivered when communication was jammed. He was not able to listen to ground instructor for returning but magically he was able to send back the communication in one way communication in mid of a claimed dog fight.

Lolz



Prince Kassad said:


> Lets agree to disagree, No pakistani will agree f16 was down How much ever proof there is.
> 
> Pakistan got mig 21 at the cost of, India got kashmir.
> 
> Topic closed.


There is no evidence. There is nothing to disagree about.


----------



## Prince Kassad

The Accountant said:


> All missiles of mig21 shown. How the message delivered when communication was jammed. He was not able to listen to ground instructor for returning but magically he was able to send back the communication in one way communication in mid of a claimed dog fight.
> 
> Lolz
> 
> 
> There is no evidence. There is nothing to disagree about.



Okay Pakistan lost karshmir at the cost of third generation mig 21. 

Good deal

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Myth_buster_1

Prince Kassad said:


> Lets agree to disagree, No pakistani will agree f16 was down How much ever proof there is.
> 
> Pakistan got mig 21 at the cost of, India got kashmir.
> 
> Topic closed.



Only Indiots believe PAF lost F-16 while rest of the world defence community disagree with Indian propaganda.
Btw it took India 71 years to claim Kashmir while Pakistani Kashmir has been on our side for the past 72 years. 
Congratulations for occupying on Kashmiri's land forcefully.



Prince Kassad said:


> Okay Pakistan lost karshmir at the cost of third generation mig 21.
> 
> Good deal



You can imagine it which ever way you want.


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## The Accountant

Prince Kassad said:


> Okay Pakistan lost karshmir at the cost of third generation mig 21.
> 
> Good deal


Wakeup kid read history ... first of all complete Kashmir was never part of Pakistan as the decision was to be made by plebicite which never happen.

We went a short with u in 1948 and snatch half of it from u.

Secondly on IOK we had no control and we still dont so whatever legal changes u Indians made doesnt means anything to Pakistan. Kashmiri are srill fighting for freedom and we still support them. So keep dreaming.

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## Falcon26

Prince Kassad said:


> Lets agree to disagree, No pakistani will agree f16 was down How much ever proof there is.
> 
> Pakistan got mig 21 at the cost of, India got kashmir.
> 
> Topic closed.



What a delusional thing to say.

Please name ONE reputable neural source that can confirm your claim an F-16 was shot down. I can provide at least 10 neutral sources that laugh at your claims.

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## AUz

Prince Kassad said:


> Lets agree to disagree, No pakistani will agree f16 was down How much ever proof there is.
> 
> Pakistan got mig 21 at the cost of, India got kashmir.
> 
> Topic closed.





This is clearly an effort to hide your humiliation but it won't work. India didn't get a single inch of Kashmir in 2019 more than what it already had since 1948. Pakistan humiliated India, the world media literally called it "an humiliating episode for India" when we bombed your military targets, shot down your jets, paraded your wing commander on national tv, and caused you to shoot down your own heli in utter panic.

There is no way to spin this, no matter how hard you try. PAF, as always, dominated the inferior iaf and iaf tucked its tail in its own arsehole and backed off without escalating the conflict further after PAF owned it in the skies.

Don't worry, whatever small part of Kashmir you have will also be taken away from you---just like superior Muslims have taken away vast territories from 'Dharmic' incels throughout the centuries. Infact, just in 1947---*16%* of Muslims took away *25%* of Indian landmass and all you could do is to bitch constantly. Its a _long_ war that your Muslim masters have been winning non-stop---you are only losing territory, and getting reduced in the process. This will continue (Hindus are already down from 85% to 79% in their last remaining homeland )

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## Suriya

The Accountant said:


> All missiles of mig21 shown. How the message delivered when communication was jammed. He was not able to listen to ground instructor for returning but magically he was able to send back the communication in one way communication in mid of a claimed dog fight.


 *No, ground controller could hear him loud and clear. And that is why the female ground controller kept warning him to go cold till the end.*


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## The Accountant

Suriya said:


> *No, ground controller could hear him loud and clear. And that is why the female ground controller kept warning him to go cold till the end.*



I thought ground controller job was to guide through radar screen. Don't she guide the pilot by looking at ground based radar activity?

By the way which type of jamming it is that the communication at receiving end is jammed but the same frequency is open for outgoing communication. Interesting science.

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## Suriya

The Accountant said:


> By the way which type of jamming it is that the communication at receiving end is jammed but the same frequency is open for outgoing communication. Interesting science.


You are overestimating scope of PAF jamming on 27th feb.
Abhinandan's wing man could hear ground controller warning and paying heed to it returned back to safety in time.


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## The Accountant

Suriya said:


> You are overestimating scope of PAF jamming on 27th feb.
> Abhinandan's wing man could hear ground controller warning and paying heed to it returned back to safety in time.


Yes Abhi wing man could heard him because he left him to be taken down. Furthermore, jamming of radio frequency is limited to an area and Abhi was in the area so all incoming and outgoing frequencies would have jammed for abhi whereas his deserter wing man was far away from danger zone was communication with ground controller. 

But if you still insist that Abhi could not hear the incoming signal due to jamming but at the same time and same place can send back the signal then please explain the science behind it.

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## Arsalan

Prince Kassad said:


> A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace. Of those, 3 F-16s, one of them known to be an F-16D Block 52, were designated to head towards ground bombing on the Nanga Tekri forward base. The other 7 were a support package, with extra air support across the border.
> 
> 2. IAF scrambles 2 Bisons, 3 Mirages and 3 Su-30 MKIs to counter the threat. The PAF strike package drops their laser guided bombs in anticipation of a dogfight which hit the military compound on the Indian side without any casualties or damage to infra, and these F-16s turn around and start "going cold" so that they can lure IAF jets into an ambush where the IAF can be outnumbered.
> 
> 3. The more "nimble" but "not strategic" IAF assets (in other words, more expendable jets, the MIG and the Mirage) are asked to chase the PAF out but NOT engage. Seeing the IAF on their tails, F-16s perform evasive positioning to start the dogfight - this is where the helmet mounted sights of the PAF come in handy. The MIGs continue to chase and one of the wingmen asks Abhi to turn cold as well. Abhi refuses and locks on a PAF F-16 : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Abhi shoots the R-73, it is a clean kill - 2 parachutes come out of the downed PAF jet : unlike other jets which would have exploded like a fireball, the F-16 is known to be a vertical dart (shoots straight for the ground, as it did in the video post the hit).https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Before Abhi had shot the R-73, an AMRAAM was launched by the helmet mounted sight of the PAF jet, before it started the countermeasures to avoid the R-73 - this was not sufficient, and hit the engine (the R-73 is heat seaking). This AMRAAM hit Abhi's jet at 15,000 ft in India : he ejected after realising that the plane cannot be controlled. The winds took him 7km into Azad Kashmir. The PAF jet was shot 3 km in Azad Kashmir. The winds carried the PAF pilots further inside Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 6. In another part of the same conflict theatre, a Su-30 MKI was locked on by another PAF jet in a BVR space : the Sukhoi deployed very effective countermeasures and positioned itself offensively (but this positioning takes time) - by this time, the PAF jets turned back as bombs had already been dropped. The AMRAAM does not self-explode, rather, is triggered by a proximity fuse, so it either hits a target, or does not, loses it's fuel, glides to the ground and detonates. This is the same missile that was presented as evidence. Link : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...aam-missile-remnants/articleshow/68225187.cms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Now, coming to what I have mentioned the "PAF jet" all throughout - I think it was most definitely a F-16D. There are 2 things that nail this : one is most definitely the AMRAAM evidence that IAF had. Watch from 10:00 mark on this video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - the JF-17 has the avionics to fit only PL-5 or the SD-10 Chinese A2A missiles. The second most pressing evidence here is the fact that IAF gathered the electronic signature of the F-16 - this may be classified information (as it would be against a friendly country to disclose what an F-16 looks like on radar), but that is what ELINT operations are for : the IAF has taken part in enough Air Exercises with Israel, UK, Australia, Singapore and Japan to know what radar, infrared and satellite signatures look like. Also, just because our jets cannot fly within 10km of the LoC does not mean that our radars do not capture their signatures and PAF does not capture our signatures. PAF too would be aware of exactly what we are carrying. These electronic signatures are very hard to decoy (there are these things called MALDs which have matured in testing in the last two decades and can spoof enemy radar with anything ranging from bombers to fighter jets, but I do not think that PAF has procured them). Link -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Now, my last point : the supposed "second Indian downed jet " : Pakistan has a habit of one-upping India in the international media, even if untrue. If two IAF jets were indeed shot down and one jet flew back to India, news of it would have spread here too. I suspect the claim that PAF made that 2 IAF jets were downed was part PsyOps and part fog of war (probably ISPR did not know that the "3 parachutes in total" did not mean 3 jets, 2 IAF, 1 PAF, but rather, 1 PAF (2 pilots) + 1 IAF). If the 2nd IAF jet was at all gliding into Azad Kashmir, then Pakistan would have definitely paraded the second pilot as well in the international media. Nor would IAF come to a secret agreement with Pakistan on hiding the identity of the second pilot. It is not in their nature to keep things quiet between each other. Another video highlighting all of JF-17's inventory :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this was more informative for you, because I was on this for 2 hours. Jai Hind.
> 
> EDIT 1 : For all those asking "how Pakistan can counter the fact that their F-16 was shot down / AMRAAM was used" : they cannot. Also, US / West cannot counter and accept the fact that they got beaten by a third gen 60s fighter, so please do not believe the misinformation spread by them too.



my God!!
So there are people who still believe in that F-16 shot shit?

ANALYSTS from around the world including India have debunked that lie! No point to keep ranting about same old BS lies.

Read this thread:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth...dian-lies-exposed-again.605903/#post-11227714

If you have any thing sensible to add please share there. Else, try to start living with the fact that IAF got spanked that day.

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## airomerix

Suriya said:


> You are overestimating scope of PAF jamming on 27th feb.
> Abhinandan's wing man could hear ground controller warning and paying heed to it returned back to safety in time.



Thank you for saying that. 

Interestingly, this publicity advert of IAF right outside the road which goes to HAL and Aakash vihar colony reiterates a principle 

*"Colleagues share food, Wingmen share fate"





*

This principle is also carved right outside the training directorate of IAF flying wing, 

Considering how Alpha 2/3/4/5 and Avenger 2 buzzed out leaving their wingman behind. Looks like your pilots are 'not' living the values of IAF after all.

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## Clutch

airomerix said:


> Thank you for saying that.
> 
> Interestingly, this publicity advert of IAF right outside the road which goes to HAL and Aakash vihar colony reiterates a principle
> 
> *"Colleagues share food, Wingmen share fate"
> 
> View attachment 632869
> *
> 
> This principle is also carved right outside the training directorate of IAF flying wing,
> 
> Considering how Alpha 2/3/4/5 and Avenger 2 buzzed out leaving their wingman behind. Looks like your pilots are 'not' living the values of IAF after all.



It seems like the Indian Airforce also shares Tea with its enemies...


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## Suriya

airomerix said:


> Thank you for saying that.
> 
> Interestingly, this publicity advert of IAF right outside the road which goes to HAL and Aakash vihar colony reiterates a principle
> 
> *"Colleagues share food, Wingmen share fate"
> 
> View attachment 632869
> *
> 
> This principle is also carved right outside the training directorate of IAF flying wing,
> 
> Considering how Alpha 2/3/4/5 and Avenger 2 buzzed out leaving their wingman behind. Looks like your pilots are 'not' living the values of IAF after all.


Both Avenger 1 and Avenger 2 faced a volley of multiple AMRAAM and successfully dodged them.


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## newb3e

Suriya said:


> Both Avenger 1 and Avenger 2 faced a volley of multiple AMRAAM and successfully dodged them.


kamal hai! 

was modi flying both the jets? only modi can perform such miracles!


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## Suriya

newb3e said:


> kamal hai!
> 
> was modi flying both the jets? only modi can perform such miracles!


No, AARAMs were desperately fired at Su30s which were flying deep inside Indian airspace and outside the missile's no escape zone. Su30s took effective evasive action in accordance with the SOP and managed to dodge those missiles.


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## The Accountant

Suriya said:


> No, AARAMs were desperately fired at Su30s which were flying deep inside Indian airspace and outside the missile's no escape zone. Su30s took effective evasive action in accordance with the SOP and managed to dodge those missiles.


Why were they flying deep inside Indian airspace? I though as per IAF narrative Pakistan was violating Indian Air space. Furthermore, Abhi needed help. Your headquarter was attacked and you were in state of very high alert as you knew we were coming.

There are so many faults in Indian narrative that you can't even list them

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> No, AARAMs were desperately fired at Su30s which were flying deep inside Indian airspace and outside the missile's no escape zone. Su30s took effective evasive action in accordance with the SOP and managed to dodge those missiles.



indiot even a monkey flying a fighter jet can evade a missile from outside of missile's no escape zone by JUST turning around and escaping the max range! Their is no "bollywood" style tactics involved here.
Also, India claims 5 AMRAAMS were fired and miraculously only one was found within few minutes of the incident while rest of the 4 are no where to be seen still today.
Meaning that 1 AMRAAM was pulled out of burning wreckage of Su-30.

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## Arsalan

Suriya said:


> Both Avenger 1 and Avenger 2 faced a volley of multiple AMRAAM and successfully dodged them.


Dear they were flying within Indian airspace, right?
They BOTH faced a volley of AIM-120C, right? 
These are the two points you just presented, please correct me if i am wrong.


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## Myth_buster_1

Arsalan said:


> my God!!
> So there are people who still believe in that F-16 shot shit?
> 
> ANALYSTS from around the world including India have debunked that lie! No point to keep ranting about same old BS lies.
> 
> Read this thread:
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth...dian-lies-exposed-again.605903/#post-11227714
> 
> If you have any thing sensible to add please share there. Else, try to start living with the fact that IAF got spanked that day.



Hinduistanis thrive in imaginary world.

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## Suriya

The Accountant said:


> Why were they flying deep inside Indian airspace? I though as per IAF narrative Pakistan was violating Indian Air space. Furthermore, Abhi needed help. Your headquarter was attacked and you were in state of very high alert as you knew we were coming.
> 
> There are so many faults in Indian narrative that you can't even list them



This is getting boring. Why do u want me start retelling everything from start?

Fyi, Su30 were on CAP and as they vectored towards the Loc to intercept PAF strike package, AMRAAMs were launched at them. This happened before Mig21s were scrambled.



Arsalan said:


> Dear they were flying within Indian airspace, right?
> They BOTH faced a volley of AIM-120C, right?
> These are the two points you just presented, please correct me if i am wrong.


Yes, that's right.


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## newb3e

The Accountant said:


> Why were they flying deep inside Indian airspace? I though as per IAF narrative Pakistan was violating Indian Air space. Furthermore, Abhi needed help. Your headquarter was attacked and you were in state of very high alert as you knew we were coming.
> 
> There are so many faults in Indian narrative that you can't even list them


because they were......


wah modi g wah!


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## Arsalan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Hinduistanis thrive in imaginary world.


No really, i hope he will have the guts to reply to my question.

Here is what he says:


Suriya said:


> *Both Avenger 1 and Avenger 2 faced a volley of multiple AMRAAM* and successfully dodged them.





Suriya said:


> No, AARAMs were desperately fired at *Su30s which were flying deep inside Indian airspace *and outside the missile's no escape zone. Su30s took effective evasive action in accordance with the SOP and managed to dodge those missiles.


As per my understanding it means:

*Indian jets were Flying within Indian airspace and BOTH of them faced a volley of missiles.*



Suriya said:


> Yes, that's right.



The questions is, if there were two IAF jets and even if we consider what is called a volley here two missiles being shot at each aircraft that will mean that overall at least 5 missiles were fired. As per Indian accounts, 5 missiles were fired. Despite this, they were able to produce one questionable wreckage of AIM-120C. 

If you have anything sensible to contribute and explain this please do share otherwise there is no point ranting the same old lies that have been debunked multiple times by international analysts including Indians!

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## Falcon26

airomerix said:


> Thank you for saying that.
> 
> Interestingly, this publicity advert of IAF right outside the road which goes to HAL and Aakash vihar colony reiterates a principle
> 
> *"Colleagues share food, Wingmen share fate"
> 
> View attachment 632869
> *
> 
> This principle is also carved right outside the training directorate of IAF flying wing,
> 
> Considering how Alpha 2/3/4/5 and Avenger 2 buzzed out leaving their wingman behind. Looks like your pilots are 'not' living the values of IAF after all.



Thanks for sharing this gem. As I have said, with each silly lie they end up digging a bigger hole for themselves


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## Suriya

Arsalan said:


> No really, i hope he will have the guts to reply to my question.
> 
> Here is what he says:
> 
> 
> As per my understanding it means:
> 
> *Indian jets were Flying within Indian airspace and BOTH of them faced a volley of missiles.*
> 
> 
> 
> The questions is, if there were two IAF jets and even if we consider what is called a volley here two missiles being shot at each aircraft that will mean that overall at least 5 missiles were fired. As per Indian accounts, 5 missiles were fired. Despite this, they were able to produce one questionable wreckage of AIM-120C.


Few simple points.

1. Pir panjal terrain is such finding even one missile is matter of luck.

2. I don't know how many wreckage were found. It could be more than one.

3. Even the one AMRAAM piece was displayed only after Pakistan falsely denied and said 'no F-16 was used' and had Pakistan accepted that F-16s were used even that piece wreckage wouldn't have been made public.


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## The Accountant

Suriya said:


> This is getting boring. Why do u want me start retelling everything from start?
> 
> Fyi, Su30 were on CAP and as they vectored towards the Loc to intercept PAF strike package, AMRAAMs were launched at them. This happened before Mig21s were scrambled.



So you are telling me that your MKIs escaped and in retaliation you managed to send a few bison in a state of very high alert at the time when your military headquarters was being pounded.

Why IAF didn't bother to send any more aircrafts despite having such a major victory of shooting down an F16? As per IAF own narrative PAF stayed there for a substantial time and keep on waited for IAF to show up but no one showed up.

Either IAF was too scared to retaliate or IAF do not have aircrafts in Kashmir.

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## Tomcats

Prince Kassad said:


> _in a clear effort to shift the focus of attention away from the shooting down of the PAF F-16 and the fate of the other downed pilot._
> 
> *But Why?*


Okay now your first post was debunked let's move onto the tweets and second pilot euphoria. In a nutshell the reason for the tweet was MISCOMMUNICATION. They wrongly took the first early reports that came in in which 2 units reported different sightings of an aircraft being downed however it was later corrected and found out that it was indeed the SAME aircraft. Next we have eyewitness accounts which are very inconsistent with one local saying he saw 2 parachutes from the mig21 which is not possible so he was either overexaggeraring or mistook it. The local mob also thought another pilot had gone down due to this miscommunication between the units however none were found.
In the end the error was corrected there was no 'shift' you speak of.


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## The Accountant

Suriya said:


> Few simple points.
> 
> 1. Pir panjal terrain is such finding even one missile is matter of luck.
> 
> 2. I don't know how many wreckage were found. It could be more than one.
> 
> 3. Even the one AMRAAM piece was displayed only after Pakistan falsely denied and said 'no F-16 was used' and had Pakistan accepted that F-16s were used even that piece wreckage wouldn't have been made public.



1. If Pir panjal terrain is so tough then how did the find the first missile so early unless it was taken out of wreckage of downed aircraft ?

2. makeup your mind or simply accept you know nothing.

3. F16 was not used in strike package and thats a fact. The ground attack missile/bombs hit are not even used by F16s.

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## Arsalan

Suriya said:


> Few simple points.
> 
> 1. Pir panjal terrain is such finding even one missile is matter of luck.


Ridiculous! Its a high tech weapons system. India will never just let it go because of terrain. This excuse is nothing but childish.



> 2. I don't know how many wreckage were found. It could be more than one.


Then read about it. There was just one found. In fact, the indian narrative changed so much that whatever little doubt international community had about their story being noting but a bunch of lies were cleared by stupid management of the whole affair. Now i understand that with the hindutva extremist being stoked to the max for political reasons, it was not easy for Indian gov to admit to the spanking the received but that would have been the wise thing to do considering how they made a fool of themselves by trying to selling different stories. 



> 3. Even the one AMRAAM piece was displayed only after Pakistan falsely denied and said 'no F-16 was used' and had Pakistan accepted that F-16s were used even that piece wreckage wouldn't have been made public.


Also wrong. Pakistan denied using F-16 as part of strike package, the planes that attacked Indian ground targets. Read the statements, listen to the press briefing and pay attention to the choice of words. The strike package had no F-16 as confirmed by Indian and other international sources. It was the CAP F-16 that killed the Mig and perhaps another Su-30 as well.



So anything other to add?
I will be honest with you, if you have something sensible to add to the thread please do that, it will help us all. However if you are just going to repeat the already debunked lies and stories you better consider leaving the thread and avoiding a thread ban. No point is repeating the same lies over and over and over again with not even a shred of proof to prove what is being claimed.



The Accountant said:


> 3. F16 was not used in strike package and thats a fact. The missile hit are not even used by F16s.


The ground attack missiles/bombs.

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## Tomcats

Suriya said:


> Even the one AMRAAM piece was displayed only after Pakistan falsely denied and said 'no F-16 was used' and had Pakistan accepted that F-16s were used even that piece wreckage wouldn't have been made public.


Again, little to no evidence, a peice of missile which couldve been recovered from many different ways least from a downed aircraft due to the massive lack of evidence. In the end unless the Indians show any major physical evidence the statement of downing of F16 will still be false.


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## The Accountant

Suriya said:


> 1.Paf action was over in less that 20 minutes.
> 
> 2. Mig21s were scrambled as they stationed at Srinagar base which is closest to Loc.
> 
> 3. You can imagine where PAF jets flying when Mig21 scrambled from the fact that *ABhi had to cross LoC in search PAF jets*.
> 
> 4. After 30 minutes into it some 24 IAF Jets including Su30 and Mig 29s had started flying CAPs over J&K airspace but by that time PAF strike package has gone back inside pak airspace and didn't attempt to come closer to LoC anymore.



It took u 30 minutes to send the lead fighters in a state of very high alert when we openly told u that we r coming.

Ohhh poor IAF.



Suriya said:


> it was a chance finding as one of the AmRAAM landed on a populated village and hurt a man on detonation.
> 
> watch this clip :


AMRAAM do not explode unless proximity fuse triger and if proximity fuse triger it means target achieved.


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## Arsalan

@Suriya and all other members, If you have anything sensible to contribute and explain/support your F-16 downed or Su-30 downed argument please post in the thread. If you are here to continue with same old rants and lies please leave the thread to avoid being thread banned.
*
NO POINT WASTING TIME AND BANDWIDTH REPEATING THE SAME LIES LIKE A BROKEN RECORD.
*
You wont be allowed to ignore the questions and keep on with the trolling.


Arsalan said:


> Ridiculous! Its a high tech weapons system. India will never just let it go because of terrain. This excuse is nothing but childish.
> 
> 
> Then read about it. There was just one found. In fact, the indian narrative changed so much that whatever little doubt international community had about their story being noting but a bunch of lies were cleared by stupid management of the whole affair. Now i understand that with the hindutva extremist being stoked to the max for political reasons, it was not easy for Indian gov to admit to the spanking the received but that would have been the wise thing to do considering how they made a fool of themselves by trying to selling different stories.
> 
> 
> Also wrong. Pakistan denied using F-16 as part of strike package, the planes that attacked Indian ground targets. Read the statements, listen to the press briefing and pay attention to the choice of words. The strike package had no F-16 as confirmed by Indian and other international sources. It was the CAP F-16 that killed the Mig and perhaps another Su-30 as well.
> 
> 
> 
> So anything other to add?

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## Falcon26

By the way, Indian journalists have themselves verified with their sources that no Pakistani F-16 was shot down by India.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114491790852263936
“*The image of the four missiles officially released by Pakistan shows debris from two R-77 Adder and two R-73 Archer missiles recovered from the MiG-21*.*If all the missiles are accounted for, then how can the Indians claim that one was fired by Wing Commander Abhinandan that took out an F-16*”







In fact, exactly a month before the Foreign Policy article debunked the supposed F-16 kill, Indian journalists have already poured cold water on the claim. More than a year after the Foreign Policy article was written, there has been no additional reports that contradicted the claims made by the journalist. This establishes that by default the article was based on solid facts.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102786162907889664
The New York Times postmortem on the event seals the discussion. Indians can live in their lalaland

*After India Loses Dogfight to Pakistan, Questions Arise About Its ‘Vintage’ Military*

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## Prince Kassad

Falcon26 said:


> By the way, Indian journalists have themselves verified with their sources that no Pakistani F-16 was shot down by India.



Which Indian journalist? there's enough proof India has shot down the f16. The Russians have confirmed as well.

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## Imran Khan

Prince Kassad said:


> Which Indian journalist? there's enough proof India has shot down the f16. The Russians have confirmed as well.


russians can welcome to check our F-16 too . killing the f-16 will be remain a dream forever


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## Falcon26

Prince Kassad said:


> Which Indian journalist? there's enough proof India has shot down the f16. The Russians have confirmed as well.



Unless you are blind, tweets of the Indian journalist were provided. At this point, it’s quite evident that you are simply trolling and not contributing productively. I suggest the moderators to censor this clown and ship him out.

“The Russians have confirmed” which Russians? What are their credentials? Lol what a deluded nutcase

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## Imran Khan

Falcon26 said:


> Unless you are blind, tweets of the Indian journalist were provided. At this point, it’s quite evident that you are simply trolling and not contributing productively. I suggest the moderators to censor this clown and ship him out.
> 
> “The Russians have confirmed” which Russians? What are their credentials? Lol what a deluded nutcase


he is new member he may be really unaware of ground realities and rely on indian media sir .


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## Falcon26

Imran Khan said:


> he is new member he may be really unaware of ground realities and rely on indian media sir .



I kind of blame the moderators of this forum for sustaining this confusion. There has to be a sticky thread that collects media reports and research by credible neutral parties so that the record can be preserved. Instead, we have a deliberate attempt to cause confusion that’s tolerated. Misinformation and bad faith debates shouldn’t be given space on this forum.

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## Tom_Cruise

Prince Kassad said:


> Which Indian journalist? there's enough proof India has shot down the f16. *The Russians have confirmed as well*.



So why hasn't your pilot confirmed it? The IAF has publicized the interview with that ugly ground controller, but why not the pilot? An F-16 is a massive, massive scalp and no pilot would stay silent on this, especially against their arch enemy and their prized fighter. Where is Abhinanadan's interview about killing an F-16? Why is he silent?

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## Falcon26

Tom_Cruise said:


> So why hasn't your pilot confirmed it? The IAF has publicized the interview with that ugly ground controller, but why not the pilot? An F-16 is a massive, massive scalp and no pilot would stay silent on this, especially against their arch enemy and their prized fighter. Where is Abhinanadan's interview about killing an F-16? Why is he silent?



To be honest, this is a very silly argument by Pakistanis. The Indians continue to lie to the teeth about downing an F-16 despite the massive evidence to the contrary as documented by credible independent neutral experts. The entire Indian Air Force and it’s political leadership have lied brazenly and fed their public an astonishing lie. What would you and others who repeat this silly argument do if they drag Abhinandan on air and have him claim that he shot down an F-16? Be careful what you wish for.

The greatest evidence that no F-16 was shot down is Abhinandan’s weapons which are all with Pakistan. Let’s stop this silly “let Abhinandan speak” charade.

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## DJ_Viper

Tom_Cruise said:


> So why hasn't your pilot confirmed it? The IAF has publicized the interview with that ugly ground controller, but why not the pilot? An F-16 is a massive, massive scalp and no pilot would stay silent on this, especially against their arch enemy and their prized fighter. Where is Abhinanadan's interview about killing an F-16? Why is he silent?



Why do you even have to care what their pilots say or not say? I've seen the videos, I have enough experience to use sense and see the R-77's intact on all 4 pilons. The fact that Indians came out on TV and said "an F-16 was downed and here is an image of the "AMRAAM", tells you the true story. That, there is no evidence of an F-16 down and here is the AMRAM we found by the wreckage of our SU-30 (as Bison was shot down within Pakistan). Period.

Did LM's contractors not check the count out and announced no F-16 was missing? Why would the Indian side accept the fact that their nose got punched bloody in the broad day light with jets flying at 40,000 feet? That's pretty damn impressive to not use terrain hugging and openly challenge and shoot down two enemy jets in warfare.

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## Tom_Cruise

Falcon26 said:


> To be honest, this is a very silly argument by Pakistanis. The Indians continue to lie to the teeth about downing an F-16 despite the massive evidence to the contrary as documented by credible independent neutral experts. The entire Indian Air Force and it’s political leadership have lied brazenly and fed their public an astonishing lie. What would you and others who repeat this silly argument do if they drag Abhinandan on air and have him claim that he shot down an F-16? Be careful what you wish for.
> 
> The greatest evidence that no F-16 was shot down is Abhinandan’s weapons which are all with Pakistan. Let’s stop this silly “let Abhinandan speak” charade.



Abhinandan's complete silence on this issue is proof the kill never happened and a clear testament to the incredible stupidity of Indian people who peddle this lie. If he did come out and speak it would only show he has given in or has been forced to speak, despite evidence proving the contrary. 

We would laugh at him, that's what we'd do.


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## Prince Kassad

Falcon26 said:


> Unless you are blind, tweets of the Indian journalist were provided. At this point, it’s quite evident that you are simply trolling and not contributing productively. I suggest the moderators to censor this clown and ship him out.
> 
> “The Russians have confirmed” which Russians? What are their credentials? Lol what a deluded nutcase



haha quoting an asian newspaper ( clearly not Indian one ) and saying Indian journalist saying it. Hahaha nice try. 

Just google it, Lots of Russian sources


----------



## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hello @MastanKhan
> The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
> why the IAF did not continue is another question.
> Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
> Permission or no Permission.



Hi,

You seem to be living in an infantile world ( I don't like to use that term---but made an exception for you )---.

Nations don't retaliate on the basis of " eye for an eye "---. Nations---when they strike back---smash the enemy to kingdom come---.

Instead of playing video games---read history---. Chengiz khan did not do an 'eye for an eye 'he decimated the muslims empires and butchered over 5 million people and in a continuous rage destroyed many other nations---.

Bin Qasim invaded sindh and destroyed the hindu rule just because some muslims were taken prisoners---

United States has slaughtered over 5 million muslims because 3000 were killed 

Pull up the history books and there will be hundreds of example of tribes & nations being smashed for either killing an envoy---a delegation---merchants---civilians---but only if you kids knew how to read books on historical events of the past---you would know.

And then there is another example right in fron of us---Israel and what it does to Syria and Lebanon and palestine---.

Wake up---you had been talking smart---but at the real moment all your knowledge fizzled out---. 

In modern day BVR fight---one does not wait for the enemy to become a threat---. If the enemy is within the zone---a shot needs to be taken or need to turn tail---. 

Paf aircraft were in the combat zone and in active combat---if they had allowed the enemy to show threat---it would have been too late to respond---because whomsoever took the initiative first---had a better chance of survival---.

This a typical pakistani cricket match---chasing 300---are at 250 for two and all out at 285---.


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## Falcon26

Prince Kassad said:


> haha quoting an asian newspaper ( clearly not Indian one ) and saying Indian journalist saying it. Hahaha nice try.
> 
> Just google it, Lots of Russian sources



What a troll. Saikat Datta is an Indian journalist based in India. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1102786162907889664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114491790852263936

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## Trailer23

Imran Khan said:


> he is new member he may be really unaware of ground realities and rely on indian media sir .


Aik tou har chun-din baad aik naya new Member ajata hai - aur uusay (phir) re-educate karnay may -1-2 mahinay lag jatay hain.

We should ask *PDF-GHQ* to add a Disclaimer/T&C that anyone who wishes to Challenge the events of 26th/27th Feb., 2019 should go through this Topic before bringing new evidence to light.

Obviously, Op. Swift Retort is a sensitive topic for ALL Indians and they just don't want to admit to the fact that got beat and were offered Tea, instantly.

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## Imran Khan

Trailer23 said:


> Aik tou har chun-din baad aik naya new Member ajata hai - aur uusay (phir) re-educate karnay may -1-2 mahinay lag jatay hain.
> 
> We should ask *PDF-GHQ* to add a Disclaimer/T&C that anyone who wishes to Challenge the events of 26th/27th Feb., 2019 should go through this Topic before bringing new evidence to light.
> 
> Obviously, Op. Swift Retort is a sensitive topic for ALL Indians and they just don't want to admit to the fact that got beat and were offered Tea, instantly.


its very hard to digest defeat . but if a country like India where media propagate day and night against pakistan . Bollywood where one hero can defeat all Pakistani forces combine . politicians whom bark pakistan day night to win votes . a nation whom blame every failure to ISI .

if kids grow in this environment and one day in thier lives they see real fight for few hours and find out all their lives they were feeded with lies and pakistan is not that much weak what thier politicians media bollowood teach them . then what they will do ? it was a great shock for every indian whom is age under 30 . they see first time an action and thier country was trashed with in few hours . abhinandan and mig-21 is another story .

when they see PAF bomb 6 locations and go back untouched .

when they see MI-17 was shot down by their own guys and killed 6 more . thier ministry of foreign affairs and joint armed forces brief press three times and did not take a single question then ? its was eye opener day for them . 90% of Indians don't know what pakistan is .

they just learn from media and Bollywood . they dont know anything about Pakistani forces and thier weaponry sir .most of the comments you read on youtube or indian media sites innocent indians think its just they have aircrafts ships submarines they think its one sided game just indians go kill and come back .

1st surgical drama was also based on same story . we enter pakistan we kill hundreds of terrorists and two paksitani soldiers and come back after 24 hours stay in pakistan .

so its better to teach them i have no issue .

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## Readerdefence

Imran Khan said:


> he is new member he may be really unaware of ground realities and rely on indian media sir .


Hi sir looks like he is someone with a new ID with all old trolling tools 
Hope he will be removed or his unrelated post will be deleted abruptly 
Thank you

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## Daghalodi

Prince Kassad said:


> Which Indian journalist? there's enough proof India has shot down the f16. The Russians have confirmed as well.



Russians are confirming it 

Why isnt the pilot who shot down F16 confirming it??


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## Myth_buster_1

Falcon26 said:


> To be honest, this is a very silly argument by Pakistanis. The Indians continue to lie to the teeth about downing an F-16 despite the massive evidence to the contrary as documented by credible independent neutral experts. The entire Indian Air Force and it’s political leadership have lied brazenly and fed their public an astonishing lie. What would you and others who repeat this silly argument do if they drag Abhinandan on air and have him claim that he shot down an F-16? Be careful what you wish for.
> 
> The greatest evidence that no F-16 was shot down is Abhinandan’s weapons which are all with Pakistan. Let’s stop this silly “let Abhinandan speak” charade.



actually thats a good argument. If Abhi lies then PAF will provide even more evidence like flight data record and IAF will be caught pants down once again.


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## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> *R-73 selected* was the last message delivered by Mig 21 before crash.
> R-73 is heat seeking WVR missile and can't be jammed by electronic counter measures.


ANOTHER NEW CONSPIRACY THEORY COMES IN


Prince Kassad said:


> Which Indian journalist? there's enough proof India has shot down the f16. The Russians have confirmed as well.


another conspiracy theory by Indian, never heard at any Russian news channel/Media confirming the shot down of our F-16


Prince Kassad said:


> Just google it, Lots of Russian sources


you're claiming, now you have the burden to provide source/links that's Russian claiming you shot down F-16


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## Falcon26

Myth_buster_1 said:


> actually thats a good argument. If Abhi lies then PAF will provide even more evidence like flight data record and IAF will be caught pants down once again.



PAF does not need Abhinandan to lie in order to produce any additional evidence. The history of the skirmish is preserved in the Air Force museum and all that evidence is there. There will be no additional evidence forthcoming.

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## Myth_buster_1

Falcon26 said:


> PAF does not need Abhinandan to lie in order to produce any additional evidence. The history of the skirmish is preserved in the Air Force museum and all that evidence is there. There will be no additional evidence forthcoming.



You never disclose every information you have about your opponent. You only disclose just enough to get message across. 
They still have electronic data which has Su-30 and Mig-21 blips disappearing (it wont be a still picture if PAF does decide to release this info). And they also have Mig-21 Flight data record which will provide every single details about Abhi's flight. All this will be released if Abhi comes out of the closet and lies that he shot down F-16.


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## Suriya

Myth_buster_1 said:


> actually thats a good argument. If Abhi lies then PAF will provide even more evidence like flight data record and IAF will be caught pants down once again.


After a serving IAf Air marshal gave media briefing giving whatever evidence India has on F-16 shot down, it was PAF's turn to release flight data record in it's possession which didn't happen.

*flight data record *would have been the best way to disprove India's claim, but Pakistan doesn't make it public. What is reason behind the reluctance?

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## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> After a serving IAf Air marshal gave media briefing giving whatever evidence India has on F-16 shot down, it was PAF's turn to release flight data record in it's possession which didn't happen.
> 
> *flight data record *would have been the best way to disprove India's claim, but Pakistan doesn't make it public. What is reason behind the reluctance?



That would have been an overkill evidence. 4 Missile display was more then enough to debunk what ever stupid evidence Indian government provided like imaginary radar picture and doodles done on MS paint. 
Believe you me, as soon as Abhi opens his mouth PAF will counter it with even bigger evidence flight data record being one of them 
If PAF provides every single evidence then they wont have anything left to counter Indian fake news.


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## Jackdaws

Suriya said:


> After a serving IAf Air marshal gave media briefing giving whatever evidence India has on F-16 shot down, it was PAF's turn to release flight data record in it's possession which didn't happen.
> 
> *flight data record *would have been the best way to disprove India's claim, but Pakistan doesn't make it public. What is reason behind the reluctance?


And what's the evidence of the Pak claim of 2nd plane shot down? Nothing.


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## Falcon26

Myth_buster_1 said:


> You never disclose every information you have about your opponent. You only disclose just enough to get message across.
> They still have electronic data which has Su-30 and Mig-21 blips disappearing (it wont be a still picture if PAF does decide to release this info). And they also have Mig-21 Flight data record which will provide every single details about Abhi's flight. All this will be released if Abhi comes out of the closet and lies that he shot down F-16.



That’s not how the real world works. Pakistan can’t access the MiG-21 flight data recorder...black box. No questions about it.


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## Myth_buster_1

Falcon26 said:


> That’s not how the real world works. Pakistan can’t access the MiG-21 flight data recorder...black box. No questions about it.



China


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## Cookie Monster

Prince Kassad said:


> The really what happened this what happened
> The PAF's North & South Axes were decoys, the Central axis was the main strike thrust - with F-16s using 1000 lbs LGBs, JF-17 the REKs and the Mir III/V the H2/ H4 SOW on 16 Corps targets. *The PAF did not cross the LC anywhere.*


Ur fiction in one post says PAF didn't cross LoC anywhere...


Prince Kassad said:


> *A strike force of 24 PAF jets headed towards Indian airspace, of which at least 10 violated Indian airspace.*


Then in literally ur next post after that one...ur fiction says that at least 10 PAF jets violated Indian airspace...

 kis kis ne kitna violate kiya tumhein...thora humein bhi toh sunao

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## Falcon26

Myth_buster_1 said:


> China



Nope. Try again.


----------



## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You seem to be living in an infantile world ( I don't like to use that term---but made an exception for you )---.
> 
> Nations don't retaliate on the basis of " eye for an eye "---. Nations---when they strike back---smash the enemy to kingdom come---.
> 
> Instead of playing video games---read history---. Chengiz khan did not do an 'eye for an eye 'he decimated the muslims empires and butchered over 5 million people and in a continuous rage destroyed many other nations---.
> 
> Bin Qasim invaded sindh and destroyed the hindu rule just because some muslims were taken prisoners---
> 
> United States has slaughtered over 5 million muslims because 3000 were killed
> 
> Pull up the history books and there will be hundreds of example of tribes & nations being smashed for either killing an envoy---a delegation---merchants---civilians---but only if you kids knew how to read books on historical events of the past---you would know.
> 
> And then there is another example right in fron of us---Israel and what it does to Syria and Lebanon and palestine---.
> 
> Wake up---you had been talking smart---but at the real moment all your knowledge fizzled out---.
> 
> In modern day BVR fight---one does not wait for the enemy to become a threat---. If the enemy is within the zone---a shot needs to be taken or need to turn tail---.
> 
> Paf aircraft were in the combat zone and in active combat---if they had allowed the enemy to show threat---it would have been too late to respond---because whomsoever took the initiative first---had a better chance of survival---.
> 
> This a typical pakistani cricket match---chasing 300---are at 250 for two and all out at 285---.


Hi

This is not the 13th century and Pakistan is no America------we live in a world now where war's are no more formally declared, and please dont compare Pakistan to Syria.

This is the age of Unconventional mercenary warfare and not the Times of sticks and blades as you so dearly refer 

If you want to understand the situation of middle east properly refer to Hadith-------Arab countries are their own worst enemy.

Pakistan was not in a state of war but in a state of retaliation----had it been a full blown out conflict you would have seen the damage done to the Indian's.

Since it was not a war every Indian fighter was only to be considered a threat only if it came close enough to the Strikers or Air superiority fighters. There is a difference between locking a target and actually getting in the shoot parameter where one will attain shoot cue and launch the weapon. 

Answer one question why did the Indians not shoot back at us.

Any ways every one is entitled to there opinion even it is wrong.



Cookie Monster said:


> Ur fiction in one post says PAF didn't cross LoC anywhere...
> 
> Then in literally ur next post after that one...ur fiction says that at least 10 PAF jets violated Indian airspace...
> 
> kis kis ne kitna violate kiya tumhein...thora humein bhi toh sunao


Sirf aik violation hui------aur usko humnay chai pilai BAS



Jackdaws said:


> And what's the evidence of the Pak claim of 2nd plane shot down? Nothing.


we dont need to provide any proof Dhanoa knows what happened to his fellow Sardar in Sukhoi.


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## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Hi
> 
> This is not the 13th century and Pakistan is no America------we live in a world now where war's are no more formally declared, and please dont compare Pakistan to Syria.
> 
> This is the age of Unconventional mercenary warfare and not the Times of sticks and blades as you so dearly refer
> 
> If you want to understand the situation of middle east properly refer to Hadith-------Arab countries are their own worst enemy.
> 
> Pakistan was not in a state of war but in a state of retaliation----had it been a full blown out conflict you would have seen the damage done to the Indian's.
> 
> Since it was not a war every Indian fighter was only to be considered a threat only if it came close enough to the Strikers or Air superiority fighters. There is a difference between locking a target and actually getting in the shoot parameter where one will attain shoot cue and launch the weapon.
> 
> Answer one question why did the Indians not shoot back at us.
> 
> Any ways every one is entitled to there opinion even it is wrong.
> 
> 
> Sirf aik violation hui------aur usko humnay chai pilai BAS
> 
> 
> we dont need to provide any proof Dhanoa knows what happened to his fellow Sardar in Sukhoi.




Just excuses---.


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## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> Just excuses---.


You still haven't answered my question.


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## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> You still haven't answered my question.



And what question was that---?

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## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> And what question was that---?


why did the Indian not shoot at us ?


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## MastanKhan

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> why did the Indian not shoot at us ?



Hi,

I have written about it multiple time as well as explained it---.

1.Indians were testing pakistani reacation for what was to come

2. Indian aircraft were being heavily jammed at that time

3. Their air control got in a panic mode---the enemy fighter pilots got in a panic mode

4. Most important---action is decided by the strike force before hand and strike force has advantage
just like if I decide to kill you---I walk upto you and shoot you or stab you with a knife
as you are not prepared for this assault---you will not have enough time to defend your self---you will die or be severely wounded

5. so the surprise was on the side of the Paf whereas the enemy panicked and lost direction of what course of action it needed to take

6. the enemy was not prepared for this reaction from Paf as they had been guaranteed by the US that
nothing would happen



Mirage Battle Commander said:


> why did the Indian not shoot at us ?



Hi,

The other answer is---who gives a rat's ar-se if the indians fired or not---. They declared war on us by making air strikes---.

Why are we worried about " why did the indians not shoot at us---?

Who gives a fck if they did not shoot at us---?

That is such a COWARDLY statement---.

They made an air strike within our territory

They claimed to have killed 350 of our children in that air strike---and they bragged on their TV sets for hours on wards---.

So---why are you looking for excuses on their behalf---?

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## Nomad40

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have written about it multiple time as well as explained it---.
> 
> 1.Indians were testing pakistani reacation for what was to come
> 
> 2. Indian aircraft were being heavily jammed at that time
> 
> 3. Their air control got in a panic mode---the enemy fighter pilots got in a panic mode
> 
> 4. Most important---action is decided by the strike force before hand and strike force has advantage
> just like if I decide to kill you---I walk upto you and shoot you or stab you with a knife
> as you are not prepared for this assault---you will not have enough time to defend your self---you will die or be severely wounded
> 
> 5. so the surprise was on the side of the Paf whereas the enemy panicked and lost direction of what course of action it needed to take
> 
> 6. the enemy was not prepared for this reaction from Paf as they had been guaranteed by the US that
> nothing would happen
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The other answer is---who gives a rat's ar-se if the indians fired or not---. They declared war on us by making air strikes---.
> 
> Why are we worried about " why did the indians not shoot at us---?
> 
> Who gives a fck if they did not shoot at us---?
> 
> That is such a COWARDLY statement---.
> 
> They made an air strike within our territory
> 
> They claimed to have killed 350 of our children in that air strike---and they bragged on their TV sets for hours on wards---.
> 
> So---why are you looking for excuses on their behalf---?


Bruh simmer down---------I'am talking tactical point of view which shows we have a superior hand on them at all times even if we did shoot down 9 more bastards then what? would you your self go and fight? most likely not but it was testing ground for us and for them too and we now know for a fact that our enemy is a stupid @$$hole and they have the numbers but lack the capability.

Look up Afghan Taliban news regards to India-----A few sources are saying that they declared Jihad against India after Eid!

The Fck with all of India---Dont call my statements Cowardly SIR! this is an open public forum and we can use logic how ever we please. 

any ways cheers.

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## Myth_buster_1

Falcon26 said:


> Nope. Try again.


Seriously what makes you think Mig-21 flight data record can not be retrieved? its stored in SSD which can be retrieved and India is not the only operator that has access to retrieve Mig-21 BIS flight record.


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## Suriya

*@MastanKhan You really believe PAF had locks on nine IaF jets and choose not to shot them down?*

*First of all, The truth is there were not even Nine IAF jets operating in that theater of action. *

*Within the span 20 minutes of the entire air skirmish, PAF contended with 8 IAF Jets and only four at a give point of time. (2Su30 + 2M2000i) at one point and then four Mig21s flown from Srinagar.

And it's not that PAF didn't try to shot more IAF jets. According to IAF there were multiple AMRAAMs fired at two Su30s and one at Abhinandon's Wing-man Mig21 , all of which failed hit their targets.*


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## MastanKhan

Suriya said:


> *@MastanKhan You really believe PAF had locks on nine IaF jets and choose not to shot them down?*
> 
> *First of all, The truth is there were not even Nine IAF jets operating in that theater of action. *
> 
> *Within the span 20 minutes of the entire air skirmish, PAF contended with 8 IAF Jets and only four at a give point of time. (2Su30 + 2M2000i) at one point and then four Mig21s flown from Srinagar.
> 
> And it's not that PAF didn't try to shot more IAF jets. According to IAF there were multiple AMRAAMs fired at two Su30s and one at Abhinandon's Wing-man Mig21 , all of which failed hit their targets.*



Son,

There are so many different ways to get the truth---. This is war---. I put a number out there---you responded with a different number---.

So---the truth has come out---no---or has it---. There---you have your answer---.

Always remember----how does the police officer gets the truth out of a criminal---he exegerrates the crime?

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## Tehmasib

Suriya said:


> *@MastanKhan You really believe PAF had locks on nine IaF jets and choose not to shot them down?*
> 
> *First of all, The truth is there were not even Nine IAF jets operating in that theater of action. *
> 
> *Within the span 20 minutes of the entire air skirmish, PAF contended with 8 IAF Jets and only four at a give point of time. (2Su30 + 2M2000i) at one point and then four Mig21s flown from Srinagar.
> 
> And it's not that PAF didn't try to shot more IAF jets. According to IAF there were multiple AMRAAMs fired at two Su30s and one at Abhinandon's Wing-man Mig21 , all of which failed hit their targets.*



*Multiple AMRAAMs fired by PAF and they missed.... You killing me bro.... Are the miss AMRAAMs vanished in air. By the IAF Auth showed up AMRAAMsto media wasa piece of Vietnam AMRAAMs as per batch no... *

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## araz

Mentee said:


> What if the IAF were to engage our strike package first? Or all airborne IAF aircrafts actually got into a hot pursuits like abhinandon?
> 
> I don't think they would have bought our
> "hey its just tit for tat"
> Excuse.
> 
> Besides the word improvisation consists of only 13 letters - - -.


ROEs still need to be followed. We need to ensure that in peace time we have a logical excuse acceptable the world over to shoot those planes down. If they had been stupid enough to send 10 down into our air space we would have shot 10 of them . The problem was that even though we had them in our sights(metaphorically) they were inside indian air space so it was not feasible to shoot them down. It needs to be understood that there are multiple facets of a war. There is the actual war and then other tactical campaigns like media wars. I need not explain our current poor showing on the media front although there has been marked upsurge since Imran Khan take over. There is also the FATF support which we mayjave lost if we had lost the media campaign. So It needs to be pointed out that we scored an ace on all fronts giving the Indians no chance other than go winging to the US about a C5 shrapnel taken out of a fallen plane's backside. This is why 27/02 was so sublimely beautiful on so many fronts. We absolutely killed them by releasing Abhinandan after serving him some fantastic tea. It shut everyone up as well as left the Indians no chance to go on a media rampage and get credible support. It was a total and utter victory gifted to the Paklands nation by it airwar heroes.
Regards
A



Tehmasib said:


> *Multiple AMRAAMs fired by PAF and they missed.... You killing me bro.... Are the miss AMRAAMs vanished in air. By the IAF Auth showed up AMRAAMsto media wasa piece of Vietnam AMRAAMs as per batch no... *


Let him be happy at how his airmen dogded the imaginary AMRAAMS. Let the poor guy have some saving grace. It is like a man who has bee beaten silly but when asked how he is says "forget all that did you see how I dodged his left hook?" OK Bhai Suriya we fired 50 AMRAAMS and you dodged all of them. Great work. I few more Veer chakras to your airmen please. You have the greatest air force in the world which has made AMRAAM dodging an art. 
A
A

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## Mentee

araz said:


> We need to ensure that in peace time we have a logical excuse acceptable the world over to shoot those planes down. I



IAF doesn't deliver spices on pak land in peace time and we don't retaliate by engaging military targets inside India in peace time



Suriya said:


> And it's not that PAF didn't try to shot more IAF jets. According to IAF there were multiple AMRAAMs fired at two Su30s and one at Abhinandon's Wing-man Mig21 , all of which failed hit their targets.



Then how come abhi landed on pak soil? Was it a fiction?

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## araz

Mentee said:


> IAF doesn't deliver spices on pak land in peace time and we don't retaliate by engaging military targets inside India in peace time


Do you remember how Christine Fair started her statement. I think this sums up the moral victory that the Indian media has drummed up on its narrative against Pakistan. I personally think the fact that the IAF fired a few missiles in the wilderness at least to me was intentional. The idea wss that it would serve their cause and because there had been no loss of lives on Pakistani side we will not have enough of an excuse to retaliate. The response was a surprise and although they prepared for it it was PERHAPS a half hearted response. Now I may be wrong but it makes sense as this whole charade was meant to be a media war while maintaining superiority in its narrative aggainst us. When Pakistan responded and did so in such a comprehensive manner we took the narrative away from them and theworld for the first time in many years has started to listen to our side. I understand this will not last long but it has comprehensively taken this strategy of bombing and then playing the victim out of Indian hands. This is the reason why this victory was so comprehensive. 8ndia will now have to stage a really big drama to set the stage for the next round but I dont see that happening for the next few years. Unfortunately the plight of our brothers in Kashmir will continue to tear our hearts apart as short of a war and total takeover we cannot do anything more. The consequences of such a misadventure are known to all and are beyond the scope of this discussion.
A

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## Mentee

araz said:


> I personally think the fact that the IAF fired a few missiles in the wilderness at least to me was intentional. The idea wss that it would serve their cause and because there had been no loss of lives on Pakistani side we will not have enough of an excuse to retaliate


 


Sir, militaries are paid and maintained to defend and fight regardless of the nature and intensity of the enemy strike, not to find excuses on behalf of the enemy to avoid a war, period! And Iam glad that the people at the top didn't give in and took the fight to Indian mainland.

BTW as per the military academy syllabus how many Pakistani deaths by what Indian weapons finally constitute an act of war ?

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## araz

Mentee said:


> Sir, militaries are paid and maintained to defend and fight regardless of the nature and intensity of the enemy strike, not to find excuses on behalf of the enemy to avoid a war, period! And Iam glad that the people at the top didn't give in and took the fight to Indian mainland.
> 
> BTW as per the military academy syllabus how many Pakistani deaths by what Indian weapons finally constitute an act of war ?


The indian strike was not a military campaign but a moronic attempt by politicians to establish a narrative to direct attention away from the Kashmir issue. Whether the military considers it an attack or not is irrelevent in this case as there are international politics at play here as well and the decision making reins are very much in the hands of the politicians. While Nawaz Shareef and Zardari buckled under Imran took an stand and stood by his forces. You in my view are failing to see the multidimensionality of modern day warfare. This is why we are trading posts. Please understand that even though the forces were involved the motives and designs on both sides were political. This needs to be understood and agreed otherwise we need to agree to disagree and move on.
Kind regards
A

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## Trango Towers

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I will dig into my post one more time and want to bring you guys attention to what every one including myself had missed earlier---.
> 
> Paf pilot flying on a combat mission should not call back home or to the flight commander and seek permission to engage enemies locked on target.
> 
> So---when this happened---it meant that the Paf had not discussed enemy aircraft contact and had no contingency plan in place to what would happen if multiple enemy aircraft were locked on within range---.
> 
> Looking at the mission profile and engagement---it gets clearer that it was a strike mission with all the drama and show included and the procedure used was where the real focus was---.
> 
> It seems that during the pre flight briefing the Paf pilots did not have a free hand at what to engage and what not to and niether did the AVM flying back seat in the mission---.
> 
> If it had been decided before hand---neither the pilots needed to call the AVM and nor the AVM had to call home to her husband to get permission.
> 
> And people talking about this FAILURE of an AVM and making his case to be the next air chief should stop doing that---.


Here we go....so now Mastankhan who left pakistan to do a menial job in the states should now run PAF operations. Wa he wah


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## TheTallGuy

@MastanKhan @Trango Towers 
What we seem to give little or no importance is JF17 Block 2 engagement with IAF Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2s. it was a water shed moment of huge proportions...i cant help try put emphasis on the engagement...lot of people have no idea how important and turning point of whole skirmish it was. 
Yet people choose to ignore it...Su-30MKI was a big achievement....but Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2 well it was the best western equipment flying in IAF.

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## MastanKhan

Mentee said:


> Sir, militaries are paid and maintained to defend and fight regardless of the nature and intensity of the enemy strike, not to find excuses on behalf of the enemy to avoid a war, period! And Iam glad that the people at the top didn't give in and took the fight to Indian mainland.BTW as per the military academy syllabus how many Pakistani deaths by what Indian weapons finally constitute an act of war ?



Hi,

Thank you for your post---. People want to hide behind excuses---.

India had already declared war when they openly stated that they will target locations in pakistan at a time & place of their chosing---.

When they struck targets in pakistan thru air strikes---that became an act of war---.

When they declared 350 children / students killed---those became casualties of war---.

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## The Raven

@araz completely agree with your arguments. The indians have effectively shot themselves in the foot with their charade of a surgical strike, because it has already set the precedent for any future attempt by them. We have already demonstrated that we will respond, no mater what the effect of any action from their side, and check-mated them. Any episode similar to last year will risk escalation, because the precedent has been set. That's why I think the indians will probably not respond similar to last year under a false flag, or if they do, it will be with Brahmos rather than their airforce.

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## araz

TheTallGuy said:


> @MastanKhan @Trango Towers
> What we seem to give little or no importance is JF17 Block 2 engagement with IAF Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2s. it was a water shed moment of huge proportions...i cant help try put emphasis on the engagement...lot of people have no idea how important and turning point of whole skirmish it was.
> Yet people choose to ignore it...Su-30MKI was a big achievement....but Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2 well it was the best western equipment flying in IAF.


I dont know whether these M2ks were upgraded to M2K5 standard or not. Personally feel they are not but happy for you to confirm that not to be the case. Please confirm. Once confirmed we can move on.
Regards
A



The Raven said:


> @araz completely agree with your arguments. The indians have effectively shot themselves in the foot with their charade of a surgical strike, because it has already set the precedent for any future attempt by them. We have already demonstrated that we will respond, no mater what the effect of any action from their side, and check-mated them. Any episode similar to last year will risk escalation, because the precedent has been set. That's why I think the indians will probably not respond similar to last year under a false flag, or if they do, it will be with Brahmos rather than their airforce.


Thank you for your post. I feel people have not looked at it in the wider context of modern day warfare and how a concerted media campaign is very much a part of it. For instance how do you know within 15 to 30 mins of the twin towers being attacked that it was OBL who ordered them. However a premise needed to be set for an action and when a big power sets it no one dares to disagree. In Indian case they set the premise correctly however botched up the action, cackhanded military counteraction, and political and media counternarrative. This on top of release of Abhinandan via national assembly announcement by the PM was so sublimely executed it baffled the whole world with its grace and poise. I cannot remember a moment in recent history of such mammoth proportions where a counternarrative has so comprehensively negated years of work carried out to build it. It was like a house of cards coming down. It still makes me go SubhanAllah how Allah izza wa jal has crushed the face of deceit and made the ungodly laughing stock in front of their own supporters.
You have the russian ambassador requesting that we dont play up the loss of the MKI, the US patting our backs for such exquisite demonstration of the use of C5s and the EU dumbfounded and helpless but to appreciate how comprehensive this victory was. This in my view was the true scope of our victory granted to us by Allah izza wa jal as only He jala jalalahu can grant to his slaves.
A

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## TheTallGuy

araz said:


> I dont know whether these M2ks were upgraded to M2K5 standard or not. Personally feel they are not but happy for you to confirm that not to be the case. Please confirm. Once confirmed we can move on.
> Regards
> A


 let me give a background from Kaiser Tufail article "At 0130 hours (all times PST), on the morning of 26 February, a flight of sixteen IAF Mirage 2000 took off from their home base, Gwalior. The strike element in the formation included six Mirage 2000H armed with one 900 kg Israeli-origin Spice 2000 bomb each, and four Mirage 2000H (out of the originally planned six) armed with one Israeli-origin Crystal Maze[1] missile each. *Six upgraded Mirage 2000I, each armed with six MICA air-to-air missiles, escorted the strike package.* The Mirage 2000s, which had to traverse a distance of 1,000 km from Gwalior, were supported midway by an Il-78 in-flight refuelling tanker. One Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEWCS) aircraft provided surveillance support to the strike package."

out these six Mirage 2000Is (aka -5 Mk 2) landed at Pathankot AFB and were on CAP North of Pir Panjal range in morning of 27th Feb-19

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## TsAr

araz said:


> ROEs still need to be followed. We need to ensure that in peace time we have a logical excuse acceptable the world over to shoot those planes down. If they had been stupid enough to send 10 down into our air space we would have shot 10 of them . The problem was that even though we had them in our sights(metaphorically) they were inside indian air space so it was not feasible to shoot them down. It needs to be understood that there are multiple facets of a war. There is the actual war and then other tactical campaigns like media wars. I need not explain our current poor showing on the media front although there has been marked upsurge since Imran Khan take over. There is also the FATF support which we mayjave lost if we had lost the media campaign. So It needs to be pointed out that we scored an ace on all fronts giving the Indians no chance other than go winging to the US about a C5 shrapnel taken out of a fallen plane's backside. This is why 27/02 was so sublimely beautiful on so many fronts. We absolutely killed them by releasing Abhinandan after serving him some fantastic tea. It shut everyone up as well as left the Indians no chance to go on a media rampage and get credible support. It was a total and utter victory gifted to the Paklands nation by it airwar heroes.
> Regards
> A
> 
> 
> Let him be happy at how his airmen dogded the imaginary AMRAAMS. Let the poor guy have some saving grace. It is like a man who has bee beaten silly but when asked how he is says "forget all that did you see how I dodged his left hook?" OK Bhai Suriya we fired 50 AMRAAMS and you dodged all of them. Great work. I few more Veer chakras to your airmen please. You have the greatest air force in the world which has made AMRAAM dodging an art.
> A
> A


Very well written and explained....The beauty about 27Feb was that we gave a bloody nose to the adversary and also kept the whole world happy and averted war....

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## Mentee

araz said:


> Whether the military considers it an attack or not is irrelevent in this case as there are international politics at play





araz said:


> You in my view are failing to see the multidimensionality of modern day warfare




Fair enough, so if an enemy aircraft /ground /naval forces intrude into Pak territory the soldier responsible, trained, and paid for the defence of the country must not pull the trigger before assessing the bigger geopolitical picture, intention of the enemy, asking for the permission to engage from political leadership and of course be considerate of the feelings of some international human rights organizations, right?


But the problem is by the time he takes all those cautionary steps and double checks them the enemy might have already wrecked havoc on Pakistanis and Iam also not sure that they teach passive diplomatic theories of the highest order like that in any other military academy across the globe.


On a side not are there still any serving officers left who share your mind set?



MastanKhan said:


> When they declared 350 children / students killed---those became casualties of war---.




God forbid if those war casualties claimed by the iaf actually turned out to be real and the body count included "someone's" near and dear ones, the war trumpet would have first been blown by these same goodie good Samaritans.

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## Nomad40

Whenever there is a terrorist attack on our soil, they (Pakistan) should be worried and they were rightly worried. They have to stop abetting terrorism in India if they have to get out of these worries."

"If the situation demands so, of course, Indian Air Force is ready 24x7," he said when asked if his Force was ready to take out any terrorist camp or launchpad across the Line of Control in Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

Speaking to news agency ANI, the IAF chief, when asked about the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) increasing its patrols over fear of a retaliation by India after the Handwara encounter, said that Pakistan was ‘rightly’ worried and it should be worried whenever there’s a terror attack on Indian soil, adding that in order to get rid of these worries, it will first have to stop abetting terrorism. 



These are the statements of Indian Air chief Bhadoria


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## Suriya

TheTallGuy said:


> Let him be happy at how his airmen dogded the imaginary AMRAAMS. Let the poor guy have some saving grace. It is like a man who has bee beaten silly but when asked how he is says "forget all that did you see how I dodged his left hook?" OK Bhai Suriya we fired 50 AMRAAMS and you dodged all of them. Great work. I few more Veer chakras to your airmen please. You have the greatest air force in the world which has made AMRAAM dodging an art.
> A
> A


imaginary AMRAAMS ?? LOL


*I mean is there even a whip of evidence out there that Pakistan shot down an Indian Su30??*


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## Nomad40

Suriya said:


> imaginary AMRAAMS ?? LOL
> 
> 
> *I mean is there even a whip of evidence out there that Pakistan shot down an Indian Su30??*


Our air force Come on Tv and International documentary and stated exactly what happened on that day. On the Other hand your country is farting left and right.

BTW whats the Weather like in Gilgit-baltistan.



MastanKhan said:


> [QUOTE="Mirage Battle Commander, post: 12339141, member: 198067"]Whenever there is a terrorist attack on our soil, they (Pakistan) should be worried and they were rightly worried. They have to stop abetting terrorism in India if they have to get out of these worries."
> 
> "If the situation demands so, of course, Indian Air Force is ready 24x7," he said when asked if his Force was ready to take out any terrorist camp or launchpad across the Line of Control in Pakistan occupied Kashmir.
> 
> Speaking to news agency ANI, the IAF chief, when asked about the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) increasing its patrols over fear of a retaliation by India after the Handwara encounter, said that Pakistan was ‘rightly’ worried and it should be worried whenever there’s a terror attack on Indian soil, adding that in order to get rid of these worries, it will first have to stop abetting terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the statements of Indian Air chief Bhadoria



Hi,

WTF does that mean---. Reeks of treason against the state---.[/QUOTE]
I dont know hat you are talking about this is what the Indian Air chief said today.

It's Pissing me off


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## MastanKhan

Mentee said:


> God forbid if those war casualties claimed by the iaf actually turned out to be real and the body count included "someone's" near and dear ones, the war trumpet would have first been blown by these same goodie good Samaritans.



Hi,

You don't get it---. They won't blow any war trumpets---. They would blame their own and say " you caused this "---.

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## TheTallGuy

Suriya said:


> imaginary AMRAAMS ?? LOL
> 
> 
> *I mean is there even a whip of evidence out there that Pakistan shot down an Indian Su30??*



let get in to the rabbit hole.....why did not Mirage 2000 engage (china mall) JF17s answer me this and i will tell you where is the wreckage..

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## Mentee

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Our air force Come on Tv and International documentary and stated exactly what happened on that day. On the Other hand your country is farting left and right.
> 
> BTW whats the Weather like in Gilgit-baltistan.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> WTF does that mean---. Reeks of treason against the state---.


I dont know hat you are talking about this is what the Indian Air chief said today.

It's Pissing me off[/QUOTE]

He's highlighting the difference of mind set . One considers it a duty to pull the trigger at every given opportunity regardless of what a human right org has to say , the other acts more of a diplomat .


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## Nomad40

Mentee said:


> I dont know hat you are talking about this is what the Indian Air chief said today.
> 
> It's Pissing me off



He's highlighting the difference of mind set . One considers it a duty to pull the trigger at every given opportunity regardless of what a human right org has to say , the other acts more of a diplomat .[/QUOTE]




OH I SEE---- Thanks


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## Mentee

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> OH I SEE---- Thanks



You don't believe me? Go through the previous two pages and find out for yourself how an ex professional is concocting excuse after excuse to avoid duty


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## Nomad40

Mentee said:


> You don't believe me? Go through the previous two pages and find out for yourself how an ex professional is concocting excuse after excuse to avoid duty


Confusion------I do believe you.


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## Mentee

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> He's highlighting the difference of mind set . One considers it a duty to pull the trigger at every given opportunity regardless of what a human right org has to say , the other acts more of a diplomat .






OH I SEE---- Thanks [/QUOTE]

Going by his logic a Pakistani soldier should never engage any Indian military asset before first seeing the bigger picture


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## Nomad40

Mentee said:


> OH I SEE---- Thanks



Going by his logic a Pakistani soldier should never engage any Indian military asset before first seeing the bigger picture[/QUOTE]
And who is this person?


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## Mentee

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Confusion------I do believe you.



I respect him for what he was but this thing freaking pissed me off. Shukar Kro aysa banda 27 Feb ko Hamara military chief nahi tha, atleast kuch to response show Kia



Mirage Battle Commander said:


> And who is this person?



An ex Pakistani military officer. See the freaking bigger picture, read their mind - - - and let the enemy blast you to oblivion

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## Nomad40

Mentee said:


> I respect him for what he was but this thing freaking pissed me off. Shukar Kro aysa banda 27 Feb ko Hamara military chief nahi tha, atleast kuch to response show Kia



O


Mentee said:


> I respect him for what he was but this thing freaking pissed me off. Shukar Kro aysa banda 27 Feb ko Hamara military chief nahi tha, atleast kuch to response show Kia
> 
> 
> 
> An ex Pakistani military officer. See the freaking bigger picture, read their mind - - - and let the enemy blast you to oblivion


Wallah if thats true I'm glad he is out-----Who is this person?


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## Mentee

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> And who is this person?



An ex Pakistani military officer. See the freaking bigger picture, read their mind - - - and let the enemy blast you to oblivion


Mirage Battle Commander said:


> O
> 
> Wallah if thats true I'm glad he is out-----Who is this person?



What the heck are you doing with your post format?


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## Nomad40

Mentee said:


> An ex Pakistani military officer. See the freaking bigger picture, read their mind - - - and let the enemy blast you to oblivion
> 
> 
> What the heck are you doing with your post format?


Nothing at all


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## Mentee

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Wallah if thats true I'm glad he is out-----Who is this person?



I fear if there are more like him in the military who would first sit and analyze the bigger picture instead of doing their duty. Wtf is this bigger picture?


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## Nomad40

Mentee said:


> I fear if there are more like him in the military who would first sit and analyze the bigger picture instead of doing their duty. Wtf is this bigger picture?


well you need to calm down maybe its just a case of misunderstanding what he actually said but over the past years any infraction has been dealt with properly.


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## Suriya

TheTallGuy said:


> let get in to the rabbit hole.....why did not Mirage 2000 engage (china mall) JF17s answer me this and i will tell you where is the wreckage..


China mall(ur words) were escorted by 8 F-16s as well and they faced off with mere two India Mirage 2000s. That's why Indian Mirages were instructed to back off , till reinforcement arrive on the scene. _The exact approach PAF followed a day before on 26 Feb when India did Balakot._


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## Mentee

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> well you need to calm down maybe its just a case of misunderstanding what he actually said but over the past years any infraction has been dealt with properly.



Iam not taking shots at him out of the blue. Been reading his posts Pre and post 27/19
But is there any picture bigger for a soldier than his radar screen?



Suriya said:


> China mall(ur words) were escorted by 8 F-16s as well and they faced off with mere two India Mirage 2000s. That's why Indian Mirages were instructed to back off , till reinforcement arrive on the scene. _The exact approach PAF followed a day before on 26 Feb when India did Balakot._



Why did you generals hide behind the politicians and didn't strike back like Pakistan as our targets were Indian military installations?

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## TheTallGuy

Suriya said:


> China mall(ur words) were escorted by 8 F-16s as well and they faced off with mere two India Mirage 2000s. That's why Indian Mirages were instructed to back off , till reinforcement arrive on the scene. _The exact approach PAF followed a day before on 26 Feb when India did Balakot._



Dear Suriya, 
your post above gives an impression that some kind of david vs Goliath story. unfortunately your synopsis on the engagement is mere trash!

i hope i did not sound too harsh..read what you posted..you certainly do not have a proper understanding of the engagement nor you have studied it. 

Question i put out to you deserve better/subjective/intellectual answer...not hear-say..

Again i am sorry

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## Suriya

TheTallGuy said:


> Dear Suriya,
> 
> i hope i did not sound too harsh..read what you posted..you certainly do not have a proper understanding of the engagement nor you have studied it.
> 
> Question i put out to you deserve better/subjective/intellectual answer...not hear-say..
> 
> Again i am sorry


Yaa, better/subjective/intellectual answer...not hear-say... right. LOL

Are you not the same TheTallGuy who used to crow that PAF shot down 4 to 6 Indian jets on that day to the disagreement of most Pakistani members?? It's good that you have stopped doing that.


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## Nomad40

Suriya said:


> Yaa, better/subjective/intellectual answer...not hear-say... right. LOL
> 
> Are you not the same TheTallGuy who used to crow that PAF shot down 4 to 6 Indian jets on that day to the disagreement of most Pakistani members?? It's good that you have stopped doing that.


IS THAT YOU IN THE PICTURE


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## TheTallGuy

Suriya said:


> Yaa, better/subjective/intellectual answer...not hear-say... right. LOL
> 
> Are you not the same TheTallGuy who used to crow that PAF shot down 4 to 6 Indian jets on that day to the disagreement of most Pakistani members?? It's good that you have stopped doing that.



No, again i have claimed that PAF must have shot down 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000I and 3 x MiG-21bisons based upon complete set of engagements that took place. you can search the post i have even provided squadrons and bases from which they took off on 27-Feb-19 and my view or conclusion were set aside by PAF official narrative and me been civilian unable to provide concrete evidence. although some parts were validated by PAF Officials when they openly in program told that they had 9 x Locks (including Mil Mi-17 that was shot down by IAF itself) you also claim that many AIM120C5 were fired at IAF aircraft. the window of shooting was 22-23 seconds. 

look on PDF One can get real information from horse mouth believe it or not..and that is why you are here...also no harm in admitting! by the way why no IAF Crashes like the ones that happened after 27th Feb-19 how many crashes do you remember?...are your IAF not flying actively these days...or was it something else..why built 3 more Su-30MKI from HAL? 9 to 12? hmm...lots of gray matter...better ask IAF via official letter..as a concerned citizen i hope you can?

The Crow issue...is funny i had joked that when you bombed Balakot there was only one death that happened that is of a crow...and crow community did not took that lightly and promised revenge which they took on 3rd Mar or 4th Mar when one of IAF MiG-21BISON crashed in Rajistan operating from NAL FOB. official reason given by IAF was Bird Strike...so it was Joke and a Good laugh...please dont tell me you believe in spy pigeons do you?

And Yes, I am car salesman and have some interesting clients..what do you do?

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## Tehmasib

How many IAF jets down on 27 feb.... Any body knows? 
1 fell down IOK, One Mig 21....and what about this.... Needs all senior members input please.... After watching this what is your opinion


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## Raj-Hindustani

Aliph Ahmed said:


> The February 29, 2019 air battle which resulted in decisive PAF Victory over the far less competent Indian Air force has totally over shadowed the Indian success of Kargil.
> 
> Everyone in India is telling lies from their bona Prime Minister to that Kaana Indian Air force chief about the humiliating slap they received by PAF. They are in denial like always have been.
> 
> Must be very hard to not be able to gloat about Kargil in 1999 without accepting the sound slap PAF gave them in 2019. Must be itching for another round. Their problem is that by abrogating Article 370, gloves are off.
> 
> Pakistan is not going to sit down quietly any more (hoping that India will get serious about solving the Kashmir dispute). This approach is already very much visible now as Pakistan is responding to every Indian false drama/whine/ceasefire violation forcefully which is really frustrating the Indian terrorist army.
> 
> (Hindus are a very darpok nasal. They need Sardar jees to face off Pakistan. The poor sardar jis are confused by the excellent Pakistani gesture of opening the border to Guru Nanak place. Hindus from 5 out of 7 castes ki XYZ may aag lagi howee hay. Sardar Jees and last two castes dont care.)



They way people give comments on a very small incident and shoot down a 3rd gen fighter. It feels like, Pakistan is a new born country after 27th Feb...

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## MayaBazar

Aliph Ahmed said:


> The February 29, 2019 air battle which resulted in decisive PAF Victory over the far less competent Indian Air force has totally over shadowed the Indian success of Kargil.
> 
> Everyone in India is telling lies from their bona Prime Minister to that Kaana Indian Air force chief about the humiliating slap they received by PAF. They are in denial like always have been.
> 
> Must be very hard to not be able to gloat about Kargil in 1999 without accepting the sound slap PAF gave them in 2019. Must be itching for another round. Their problem is that by abrogating Article 370, gloves are off.
> 
> Pakistan is not going to sit down quietly any more (hoping that India will get serious about solving the Kashmir dispute). This approach is already very much visible now as Pakistan is responding to every Indian false drama/whine/ceasefire violation forcefully which is really frustrating the Indian terrorist army.
> 
> (Hindus are a very darpok nasal. They need Sardar jees to face off Pakistan. The poor sardar jis are confused by the excellent Pakistani gesture of opening the border to Guru Nanak place. Hindus from 5 out of 7 castes ki XYZ may aag lagi howee hay. Sardar Jees and last two castes dont care.)



You have very good analytical skills.


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## PradoTLC

Raj-Hindustani said:


> They way people give comments on a very small incident and shoot down a 3rd gen fighter. It feels like, Pakistan is a new born country after 27th Feb...




A “small” incident where countless effort by the bharatis has been dedicated in terms of interviews of your airforce clowns, so called defense analysis , your government and millions of boon tube bloggers like your self...


Interesting isn’t

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## Nomad40

Raj-Hindustani said:


> They way people give comments on a very small incident and shoot down a 3rd gen fighter. It feels like, Pakistan is a new born country after 27th Feb...


4+ Su30--- and dont forget your so called sarkar threatened our freedom but we destroyed your Pride.


 IN BROAD DAY LIGHT 

Look at the way you fools are here at a Pakistani thread looking for affirming Evidence and like fools you scavenge for base less bharati statements. Let me remind you of your scoundrel Media and what the made of 26-02-19.

Pakistan Zindabad.

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## Myth_buster_1

Raj-Hindustani said:


> They way people give comments on a very small incident and shoot down a 3rd gen fighter. It feels like, Pakistan is a new born country after 27th Feb...


Dude, PAF not only shot down Mig-21 and a Su-30 "unconfirmed" but also violated Indian sovereignty by bombing their territory regardless if any target was destroyed it was still a big blue on mighty super power India. 
How often do you hear about Egyptian Air force violating Isreali sovereignty like that?

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## Raj-Hindustani

PradoTLC said:


> A “small” incident where countless effort by the bharatis has been dedicated in terms of interviews of your airforce clowns, so called defense analysis , your government and millions of boon tube bloggers like your self...
> 
> 
> Interesting isn’t



Really man! Don't know the reason for a such a very small incident a fight. You people are too much happy.

..



Mirage Battle Commander said:


> 4+ Su30--- and dont forget your so called sarkar threatened our freedom but we destroyed your Pride.
> 
> 
> IN BROAD DAY LIGHT
> 
> Look at the way you fools are here at a Pakistani thread looking for affirming Evidence and like fools you scavenge for base less bharati statements. Let me remind you of your scoundrel Media and what the made of 26-02-19.
> 
> Pakistan Zindabad.



Pakistani never ready to talk about 26th because of complete failure of air defense.

From past 70 years of history, let me know the where Indian military got failed. I can point out only 1962 against China but rest are just amazing.
1965 successfully defended Kashmir and forced to save Lahore.
1967 war against China (Small fight)
1971 war
1984 war
1999 war...

Indian military is having many things on their plate to showcase about on last 70 years.




Myth_buster_1 said:


> Dude, PAF not only shot down Mig-21 and a Su-30 "unconfirmed" but also violated Indian sovereignty by bombing their territory regardless if any target was destroyed it was still a big blue on mighty super power India.
> How often do you hear about Egyptian Air force violating Isreali sovereignty like that?



Iran fired some rockets on US military bases but does not meant that Iran is more powerful than US.


----------



## Nomad40

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Really man! Don't know for a such a very small incident a fight. You people are too much happy.
> 
> 
> Pakistani never ready to talk about 26th because of complete failure of air defense.
> 
> 
> Iran fired some rockets on US military bases but does not meant that Iran is more powerful than US.


Are you high on cow piss ------ Indian fighters were never inside Pakistan think logically and tell me why on earth do you need to cross in to Pakistan air space to deliver guide bombs of extended ranges.


----------



## Raj-Hindustani

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Are you high on cow piss ------ Indian fighters were never inside Pakistan think logically and tell me why on earth do you need to cross in to Pakistan air space to deliver guide bombs of extended ranges.



Are you going to denied that mirage 2000 not entered to inside pak territory?


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Really man! Don't know the reason for a such a very small incident a fight. You people are too much happy.



let me repeat since you are just repeating yourself

Dude, PAF not only shot down Mig-21 and a Su-30 "unconfirmed" but also violated Indian sovereignty by bombing their territory regardless if any target was destroyed it was still a big blue on mighty super power India.
How often do you hear about Egyptian Air force violating Isreali sovereignty like that?



> Pakistani never ready to talk about 26th because of complete failure of air defense.


Firing Stand off weapons 50-60KM away from target by intruding mere 0-5km is not a huge accomplishment specially when IAF missed to hit its intended target.
NO DAMAGE was done to structure. 
Ask your IAF to release Spice-2000 footage (oh wait by coincidence IAF forgot to press record button on all 5 spice-2000)
Ask your military to release its super duper alien technology satellite image of destroyed target. 
Since India is making a claim then they should provide evidence. 



> From past 70 years of history, let me know the where Indian military got failed. I can point out only 1962 against China but rest are just amazing.
> 1965 successfully defended Kashmir and forced to save Lahore.
> 1967 war against China (Small fight)
> 1971 war
> 1984 war
> 1999 war...


1947-8 Kashmir war: Pakistan took half of Kashmir from India
1962: China kicked your ***
1965: Even though Pakistan plan to infiltrate Kashmir with help of guerilla warfare failed it defeated India in conventional war. India retaliated by attacking mainland and had planned to invade Lahore which is at the border and still got its *** kicked.
1971: congratulations, you had full leverage over east pakistan which was 1000+ miles away from West and was in middle of civil war. 
1999: Pakistan army occupied Indian territory for 3 months! It took India 3 months to take its territory back with full air and ground support while Pakistan was using only 1950s artillery guns and G-3 rifles. At the end uncle sam came to Indian rescue by forcing Pakistan to retreat. 


> Indian military is having many things on their plate to showcase about on last 70 years.


India did have many political victories but it failed militarily. 


> Iran fired some rockets on US military bases but does not meant that Iran is more powerful than US.


No indiot, it means US was embarrassed in front of entire world!
2019 Feb skirmish is a Pakistani victory. Not only did India failed to hit any target but the next day in broad day light PAF kicked super duper power AF ***!

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## Aliph Ahmed

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Are you going to denied that mirage 2000 not entered to inside pak territory?



Shooder ki lag gaee..lol.

What india did was shab e khoon. Came at night like cowards, tried to fire missiles but were engaged by PAF. instead of completing the mission, broke off, dropped everything and ran away.

PAF gave notice. Came in broad day light, dropped weapons, showed mercy, shot down two of your jets, captured one pilot, treated him fantastic tea and again released him by showing mercy. Mind you, he did not qualify as POW as India did not declare war. 

Indian media, indian prime minister, indian air force chief all got involved in denying the thappar they got from Pakistan. Whole world is laughing at your indian air force chief, media and prime minister lieing and you call that small incident? 

Whats your caste ? Abhi paani ka paani hoja ayay ga.


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## PradoTLC

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Are you going to denied that mirage 2000 not entered to inside pak territory?





what is there to deny... 27 feb showed that your claim of 20+ in Pakistani airspace was a shameless lie



Raj-Hindustani said:


> Indian military is having many things on their plate to showcase about on last 70 years.




yes .. lots of fake battles and bloody noses.


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## Pak-Canuck

You forgot to add the following in red



Myth_buster_1 said:


> let me repeat since you are just repeating yourself
> 
> Dude, PAF not only shot down Mig-21 and a Su-30 "unconfirmed" (but supported by foreign experts like Allan Warnes while foreign expert Christine Fair the Indians brought in to prove their "f-16 kill" wet dream literally embarassed them in front of everybody as "BAKWAAS", her own words) but also violated Indian sovereignty by bombing their territory regardless if any target was destroyed it was still a big blue on mighty super power India.
> How often do you hear about Egyptian Air force violating Isreali sovereignty like that?
> 
> 
> Firing Stand off weapons 50-60KM away from target by intruding mere 0-5km is not a huge accomplishment specially when IAF missed to hit its intended target.
> NO DAMAGE was done to structure.
> Ask your IAF to release Spice-2000 footage (oh wait by coincidence IAF forgot to press record button on all 5 spice-2000)
> Ask your military to release its super duper alien technology satellite image of destroyed target.
> Since India is making a claim then they should provide evidence.
> 
> 
> 1947-8 Kashmir war: Pakistan took half of Kashmir from India
> 1962: China kicked your ***
> 1965: Even though Pakistan plan to infiltrate Kashmir with help of guerilla warfare failed it defeated India in conventional war. India retaliated by attacking mainland and had planned to invade Lahore which is at the border and still got its *** kicked. 1000 sq km of Indian territory captured vs the 300 sq km of Pakistani territory captured before the ceasefire was declared.
> 1971: congratulations, you had full leverage over east pakistan which was 1000+ miles away from West and was in middle of civil war. And where 30000 pak soldiers (yes not 90,000 as per Indian wet dreams, only 30000 of the 90000 POW's were soldiers) and 1 PAF squadron were pitted against 100,000 Indians and 10 IAF squadrons WHILE fighting an internal rebellion, celebrating that victory is like celebrating having "doged a dozen AMRAAMS" while only being able to produce one which was obviously the one that downed the SU-30
> 1999: Pakistan army occupied Indian territory for 3 months! It took India 3 months to take its territory back with full air and ground support while Pakistan was using only 1950s artillery guns and G-3 rifles. At the end uncle sam came to Indian rescue by forcing Pakistan to retreat. (and Pak inflicted way more casualties AND still came out with more territory held (atleast 4 peaks, 6 according to one of their own MP's words)
> 
> India did have many political victories but it failed militarily.
> No indiot, it means US was embarrassed in front of entire world!
> 2019 Feb skirmish is a Pakistani victory. Not only did India failed to hit any target but the next day in broad day light PAF kicked super duper power AF ***!


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## Sidacca

Raj-Hindustani said:


> They way people give comments on a very small incident and shoot down a 3rd gen fighter. It feels like, Pakistan is a new born country after 27th Feb...


Put everything aside we made you so scare suddenly that your air defence get down own chopper..... You were in panic


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## graphican

Raj-Hindustani said:


> They way people give comments on a very small incident and shoot down a 3rd gen fighter. It feels like, Pakistan is a new born country after 27th Feb...



Na my friend, India died a new death on 27th Feb. Paksitan was, is, and will be alive as much as always. Its India who lost perception of power, image, and self-respect.

"*Rafael hotay to nateeja kuch aor hota*" - Indian PM Nirandra Modi after 27th Feb 2019.

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## Aasimkhan

graphican said:


> Na my friend, India died a new death on 27th Feb. Paksitan was, is, and will be alive as much as always. Its India who lost perception of power, image, and self-respect.
> 
> "*Rafael hotay to nateeja kuch aor hota*" - Indian PM Nirandra Modi after 27th Feb 2019.


SucHers are waiting for Rafales, haha


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## Aliph Ahmed

Indians are desperate to re-write the February 27, 2019 air battle in their favor despite all facts pointing towards decisive PAF victory.

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## Aasimkhan

Aliph Ahmed said:


> Indians are desperate to re-write the February 27, 2019 air battle in their favor despite all facts pointing towards decisive PAF victory.


I wish we had shot down more IAF planes that day to shut their mouth once and for all

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## Aliph Ahmed

Aasimkhan said:


> I wish we had shot down more IAF planes that day to shut their mouth once and for all



PAF had confirmed lock on at least 6 indian warplanes but the permission never came. 

PAF should not have showed mercy in my opinion but PAF higher ups knows better. 

At least, they did not let us down. I remember how i went to bed angry thinking that pak is all talk when ISPR Ghafoor gave notice to India to wait for pak response. Next morning, it was everywhere that PAF shot down two indian jets. Icing on the cake was that while abhi-nandan was being paraded on pak and international media, i dian MET was hiding behind we are looking into it excuse. Uff, those indian faces with humiliation written all over ! Hahaha

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## TsAr

Mentee said:


> Fair enough, so if an enemy aircraft /ground /naval forces intrude into Pak territory the soldier responsible, trained, and paid for the defence of the country must not pull the trigger before assessing the bigger geopolitical picture, intention of the enemy, asking for the permission to engage from political leadership and of course be considerate of the feelings of some international human rights organizations, right?
> 
> 
> But the problem is by the time he takes all those cautionary steps and double checks them the enemy might have already wrecked havoc on Pakistanis and Iam also not sure that they teach passive diplomatic theories of the highest order like that in any other military academy across the globe.
> .


Chain of command is there for a reason. Just have a look at what our neighbors Iran did, they just shot a Commercial airliner because the person manning that battery thought that it was a missile.
Air defense people keep an eye on the enemy airspace as well for any eventuality, and for a reason there is a 10km barrier for the airforce along the border.


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## Mentee

TsAr said:


> Chain of command is there for a reason. Just have a look at what our neighbors Iran did, they just shot a Commercial airliner because the person manning that battery thought that it was a missile.
> Air defense people keep an eye on the enemy airspace as well for any eventuality, and for a reason there is a 10km barrier for the airforce along the border.



Chain of command is not established to first let the enemy break in, kill Pakistanis and only take action after damage assessment. 

"Kal subha Jvaab dy gy abhi daikh rhy hain Pakistanio k sath Kia hoa?"


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## Nomad40

Raj-Hindustani said:


> Are you going to denied that mirage 2000 not entered to inside pak territory?


Hell yeah.


----------



## Rafael

Falcon26 said:


> The fact that Indians believe an F-16 was shot down despite all the MIG-21 weapons are with Pakistan shows what sort of delusional Indians suffer from. Never seen anything close to such a mass delusion.



Not to mention the drop tanks still sticking with the body of downed jet.

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## Safriz

Doosra bandaa



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113768843980300289

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## SQ8

Aliph Ahmed said:


> Indians are desperate to re-write the February 27, 2019 air battle in their favor despite all facts pointing towards decisive PAF victory.


And they will, they have better national cohesion in spreading propaganda which transcends to their NRIs.
In other words, their level of beghairti is not confined to geographical or socioeconomic strata and will be displayed everywhere.

Wikipedia will soon reflect their narrative, so will other information sites along with articles in western countries.

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## Trailer23



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## Pak-Canuck

Aliph Ahmed said:


> PAF had confirmed lock on at least 6 indian warplanes but the permission never came.
> 
> PAF should not have showed mercy in my opinion but PAF higher ups knows better.
> 
> At least, they did not let us down. I remember how i went to bed angry thinking that pak is all talk when ISPR Ghafoor gave notice to India to wait for pak response. Next morning, it was everywhere that PAF shot down two indian jets. Icing on the cake was that while abhi-nandan was being paraded on pak and international media, i dian MET was hiding behind we are looking into it excuse. Uff, those indian faces with humiliation written all over ! Hahaha



No, senior officer (I forget which one exactly but there is a clear clip of him saying it) clearly said we had lock on NINE planes in total (including the 2 we shot down), so could have shot down atleast 7 more. But maybe it's better we didn't, otherwise IAF would have claimed to have shot down 9 F-16's

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## StormBreaker

Pak-Canuck said:


> No, senior officer (I forget which one exactly but there is a clear clip of him saying it) clearly said we had lock on NINE planes in total (including the 2 we shot down), so could have shot down atleast 7 more. But maybe it's better we didn't, otherwise IAF would have claimed to have shot down 9 F-16's


Can you share the Hd image link of Viper In your DP ?


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## Pak-Canuck

StormBreaker said:


> Can you share the Hd image link of Viper In your DP ?



Here ya go

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## PradoTLC

Aasimkhan said:


> I wish we had shot down more IAF planes that day to shut their mouth once and for all




nope

Indian mouths are like seven eleven stores ... they both never shut...

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## Imran Khan

always feel fresh when see some new unseen image of abhinandan

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## Path-Finder

Imran Khan said:


> always feel fresh when see some new unseen image of abhinandan
> 
> View attachment 637358


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## Imran Khan

Path-Finder said:


>


as per pakistani culture its very big insult to catch him from collar  jesy punjab police kisi chor ko le ja rahi hi

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## Path-Finder

Imran Khan said:


> as per pakistani culture its very big insult to catch him from collar  jesy punjab police kisi chor ko le ja rahi hi


well he is an old man but he had arrested nando.


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## Imran Khan

Path-Finder said:


> well he is an old man but he had arrested nando.


he has desi ghee energy watch his interview sir


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## Path-Finder

Imran Khan said:


> he has desi ghee energy watch his interview sir


I have eaten desi ghee and it has no equal. it is amazing and those who grew up on it are tough sons of guns.

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## maverick1977

never seen this video of multiple debris of indian planes falling from the sky ? what do u folks make of it? 





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## DrWatson775

maverick1977 said:


> never seen this video of multiple debris of indian planes falling from the sky ? what do u folks make of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


waiting for members across the border to start being 'tadpole' experts.

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## Nomad40

DrWatson775 said:


> waiting for members across the border to start being 'tadpole' experts.


see how there are 2 ejection seats

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## AsianLion

For the start, India got nothing in hand.

The Indian public has been misled and the media and political opposition have failed to bring out the truth.


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## maverick1977

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> see how there are 2 ejection seats



Thats what i thought too, but the last one seemed like tail falling down. but that is too late after the main plane crash .. 
i am not certain as to what i see thats wht asking

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## HRK

maverick1977 said:


> never seen this video of multiple debris of indian planes falling from the sky ? what do u folks make of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


this is the most clear version of this video .....

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## F86 Saber

I think these were just different parts of the same MIG-21 because as per the timeline, SU-30 was shot down much earlier than the Mig-21.

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## HRK

F86 Saber said:


> I think these were just different parts of the same MIG-21 because as per the timeline, SU-30 was shot down much earlier than the Mig-21.


yaap front airframe then rear airframe/engine bay then some unknown part were falling to the ground one after another


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## Taimoor Khan

maverick1977 said:


> never seen this video of multiple debris of indian planes falling from the sky ? what do u folks make of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/




Nice!

That's Abhi none done Mig21. Tail section free falling is a give away.

Chap was extremely lucky to bailout.

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## maverick1977

Taimoor Khan said:


> Nice!
> 
> That's Abhi none done Mig21. Tail section free falling is a give away.
> 
> Chap was extremely lucky to bailout.



One of them shows the tail section falling off. most likely took time to come down due to drag.. another one might be seat .. parachute is not visible, must be the last one and still high in the air.. 
the place he was caught seems to be a bit away from the mountains.. but this debris is very close to the mountains.. but can be due to angle of the video and surrohnding reference..


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## airomerix

Refreshing to see a so called super power losing military aircraft without any consequence or retaliation. Speaks volumes about Indo-Pak military balance.

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## F86 Saber

This video also shows that Abhi's aircraft was a direct hit and exploded in the air, had he ejected after the explosion he would have suffered a lot more injuries especially burns. This might mean that Abhinandan ejected as soon as his RWR showed a missed locked on. So much for the Vir Chakkar.

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## Ivan

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Maarkhoor

Ivan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Good video but lots of discrepancies on facts.

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## Muhammad Omar

O bhai bus krdo ab swift retort ko dair saal hogaya hai

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## Imran Khan

Muhammad Omar said:


> O bhai bus krdo ab swift retort ko dair saal hogaya hai


ye hamara 1971 ban gya hai jesy indians baat baat per 1971 nikal lety hain ab pakistan OPSR nikalty hain

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## Muhammad Omar

Imran Khan said:


> ye hamara 1971 ban gya hai jesy indians baat baat per 1971 nikal lety hain ab pakistan OPSR nikalty hain


Looks like it haftay koi bhi aata hai swift retort ki thread bana deta hai

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## Imran Khan

Muhammad Omar said:


> Looks like it haftay koi bhi aata hai swift retort ki thread bana deta hai


agly din main bor ho raha tha main ne abhi nandan ki pic laga di

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## truthfollower

this is very old video a year old

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## SQ8

Imran Khan said:


> ye hamara 1971 ban gya hai jesy indians baat baat per 1971 nikal lety hain ab pakistan OPSR nikalty hain


In 71 they carried out a war on teo fronts while invading and annexing half of our country and causing rapid capitulation of your leadership along with capturing 90000 PoW.
By the admission of our own PAF officers in books their performance was much better than in 71.

Last year we had a small limited aerial skirmish through which we shot down two jets and created a temporary detente which is likely not going to last this year.

They do have the bigger achievement to boot about.

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## syed_yusuf

Muhammad Omar said:


> Looks like it haftay koi bhi aata hai swift retort ki thread bana deta hai


only of PAF could have hit 6 more fighters when they have an opportunity, IAF would have be shut off completely for next 20 years.


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## CriticalThinker02

Muhammad Omar said:


> O bhai bus krdo ab swift retort ko dair saal hogaya hai



This thread is dedicated to operation swift retort, if you don't want to talk about it than there are other threads where you can navigate too.

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## The Maverick

You tried to get an SU30mki but all YOUR Amraams missed has your pilots did not engage close enough ie with 60km zone where the max kill ever has been recorded for amraam BVR kill . Your pilots did not wish to be locked on so stayed over 100km away way to far to hit a flanker with speed and TVC agility they doged your BVRS with ease

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## airomerix

The Maverick said:


> You people deny losing F16 on grounds of no proof.
> Without proof of SU30MKI going down you have no case
> 
> Its HEARSAY
> 
> You tried to get an SU30mki but all YOUR Amraams missed has your pilots did not engage close enough ie with 60km zone where the max kill ever has been recorded for amraam BVR kill . Your pilots did not wish to be locked on so stayed over 100km away way to far to hit a flanker with speed and TVC agility they doged your BVRS with ease



I just reported your post on grounds of below average knowledge bank and ludicrous thought process. This forum deserves better. 

Somewhere there is a tree trying so hard to replace the oxygen you are taking up. Now go and apologize to it.

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## truthfollower

The Maverick said:


> You people deny losing F16 on grounds of no proof.
> Without proof of SU30MKI going down you have no case
> 
> Its HEARSAY
> 
> You tried to get an SU30mki but all YOUR Amraams missed has your pilots did not engage close enough ie with 60km zone where the max kill ever has been recorded for amraam BVR kill . Your pilots did not wish to be locked on so stayed over 100km away way to far to hit a flanker with speed and TVC agility they doged your BVRS with ease



no it is "not" HEARSAY! In our case, Can't say anything about your side. Our top leadership and the pilots claimed the kills go watch invincible resolve documentary. Our pilot who shot down SU-30 claimed the kill and told us what your SU-30MKI was doing and clearly mentioned it. "Grinding one plus one, Running here and there, Hiding behind each-others tail"
at 17:56

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## araz

airomerix said:


> I just reported your post on grounds of below average knowledge bank and ludicrous thought process. This forum deserves better.
> 
> Somewhere there is a tree trying so hard to replace the oxygen you are taking up. Now go and apologize to it.


I have given him a little red ticket for his little lies. I dont mind a healthy debate but deceit and lies do not make for a healthy debate.
A

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## Wa Muhammada

Muhammad Omar said:


> O bhai bus krdo ab swift retort ko dair saal hogaya hai



I love the fact that we outdid India last Feb but come on guys we are still feeding off scraps while Modi rapes our sisters and our honour in Occupied Kashmir



Wa Muhammada said:


> I love the fact that we outdid India last Feb but come on guys we are still feeding off scraps while Modi rapes our sisters and our honour in Occupied Kashmir




Shouldn’t we be questioning the mettle of our leaders than praising them for sitting inside their bunkers


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## Muhammad Omar

Waqas said:


> This thread is dedicated to operation swift retort, if you don't want to talk about it than there are other threads where you can navigate too.


There was another thread made by some random guy which mods merged it. If you don't know something don't jump to conclusions


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## Eisenschadel

Ivan said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


I made the original video based on initial facts that were made public. Thereafter, after more knowledge of the PAF strike became available, the video was re-edited. Many channels on social media also re-uploaded it on their own. The biggest changes I made to the final version was the removal of the JF-17 from the air-to-air segment and showed both medium range missile launches from F-16s.
The link to the re-edited version is below. Its on my small YouTube channel:





In addition, I also made a long background video which discussed the problems I faced as an amateur director who had to learn video editing on the go (this was my first ever project) and also had to remain technically correct considering my own deep knowledge about military technology in general and military aviation in particular. The link to the "background" video is below:





I did realize two more errors in the re-edited version. One was with a Mirage strike element callsign. The second was with Abhinandan's rank.
I've corrected those errors. Ill probably upload the final version one of these days.
The first half of the background video discusses the Swift Retort short film and the issues I faced. The second half is about film making in Pakistan in general.
Insha'Allah more projects planned for the future as well. 
Hope everyone enjoyed the short film on Swift Retort.

Oh and thanks for the first upvote @zarwan . One of these days I think I may even make a small documentary on our army assault rifle program

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## CriticalThinker02

Muhammad Omar said:


> There was another thread made by some random guy which mods merged it. If you don't know something don't jump to conclusions



If the mods merged it then it was a discussion about swift retort and if you want to avoid such discussions then move to other threads.


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## Irfan Baloch

airomerix said:


> I just reported your post on grounds of below average knowledge bank and ludicrous thought process. This forum deserves better.
> 
> Somewhere there is a tree trying so hard to replace the oxygen you are taking up. Now go and apologize to it.


I think you must get some rest after reading and responding to that post 

I lost some brain cells reading his logic


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## loanranger

Eisenschadel said:


> I made the original video based on initial facts that were made public. Thereafter, after more knowledge of the PAF strike became available, the video was re-edited. Many channels on social media also re-uploaded it on their own. The biggest changes I made to the final version was the removal of the JF-17 from the air-to-air segment and showed both medium range missile launches from F-16s.
> The link to the re-edited version is below. Its on my small YouTube channel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, I also made a long background video which discussed the problems I faced as an amateur director who had to learn video editing on the go (this was my first ever project) and also had to remain technically correct considering my own deep knowledge about military technology in general and military aviation in particular. The link to the "background" video is below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did realize two more errors in the re-edited version. One was with a Mirage strike element callsign. The second was with Abhinandan's rank.
> I've corrected those errors. Ill probably upload the final version one of these days.
> The first half of the background video discusses the Swift Retort short film and the issues I faced. The second half is about film making in Pakistan in general.
> Insha'Allah more projects planned for the future as well.
> Hope everyone enjoyed the short film on Swift Retort.
> 
> Oh and thanks for the first upvote @zarwan . One of these days I think I may even make a small documentary on our army assault rifle program


You should have called yourself dr strange love... oh well .... please do remain an active member on PDF .
Would love to have you. Watched all your videos on your channel too.

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## Muhammad Omar

Waqas said:


> If the mods merged it then it was a discussion about swift retort and if you want to avoid such discussions then move to other threads.



Are you stupid or something or just acting like one?


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## Zarvan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100682867124760577





This tweet and this video among few others will remain iconic and most pleasing.

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## Nomad40

can we like close this thread ?

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268881667898261504

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## ziaulislam

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268881667898261504




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268888562470027265

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## TsAr

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268881667898261504


This tweet made my day....

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## Falcon26

maverick1977 said:


> never seen this video of multiple debris of indian planes falling from the sky ? what do u folks make of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Here @Eisenschadel


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## litman

Falcon26 said:


> Here @Eisenschadel


you can here the roaring PAF falcons in the background.


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## MZ-PDF

First, It should be kept in mind that IAF pilots who carried out the Balakot Airstrikes were mentally and physically unprepared for the mission. Pre-Balakot, they were smoking a lot of cigarettes, were moving back & forth in fear and anxiety, and were unable to sleep as well. 

#IAF has also admitted that the whole operation didn’t go as planned. #IAF fighter fleet failed to withstand the weather conditions and had trouble with the cloud cover. For this reason, the Crystal Maze(Six as planned) were not launched.

One SPICE 2000 didn’t leave the Mirage because of an error in the Inertial Navigation System. There was a mismatch between the location seen by the SPICE 2000 and the Mirage at the point of its delivery, which led to it not being fired.

Contradiction Number 1: 

According to NDTV, five out of six SPICE 2000 were launched to target four buildings, of which only three were hit. But according to the report by The Hindustan Times, the designated targets were six, of which five were hit. 

Please Note that both NDTV & The Hindustan Times are quoting from sources within the IAF.

Contradiction Number 2:

According to IAF, the SPICE 2000 hit their targets without destroying/or causing any damage to the buildings(PGMs created holes on rooftops).

Yet, according to Indian officials, images retrieved from the Synthetic Aperture Radar(SAR) carried by an airborne platform showed that four buildings had been completely destroyed. 

Note: The images were not released as usual.

However, satellite images taken from WorldView-2(A very high resolution satellite) suggests that there were no holes(of any sort) on the rooftops — or any damage to the Infrastructure.

Australian Strategic Policy Institute made an assessment that the precision-guided munitions (PGMs) launched in the strike were incorrectly programmed, undermining the precision in reaching the targets.

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## AMRAAM

MZ-PDF said:


> First, It should be kept in mind that IAF pilots who carried out the Balakot Airstrikes were mentally and physically unprepared for the mission. Pre-Balakot, they were smoking a lot of cigarettes, were moving back & forth in fear and anxiety, and were unable to sleep as well.
> 
> #IAF has also admitted that the whole operation didn’t go as planned. #IAF fighter fleet failed to withstand the weather conditions and had trouble with the cloud cover. For this reason, the Crystal Maze(Six as planned) were not launched.
> 
> One SPICE 2000 didn’t leave the Mirage because of an error in the Inertial Navigation System. There was a mismatch between the location seen by the SPICE 2000 and the Mirage at the point of its delivery, which led to it not being fired.
> 
> Contradiction Number 1:
> 
> According to NDTV, five out of six SPICE 2000 were launched to target four buildings, of which only three were hit. But according to the report by The Hindustan Times, the designated targets were six, of which five were hit.
> 
> Please Note that both NDTV & The Hindustan Times are quoting from sources within the IAF.
> 
> Contradiction Number 2:
> 
> According to IAF, the SPICE 2000 hit their targets without destroying/or causing any damage to the buildings(PGMs created holes on rooftops).
> 
> Yet, according to Indian officials, images retrieved from the Synthetic Aperture Radar(SAR) carried by an airborne platform showed that four buildings had been completely destroyed.
> 
> Note: The images were not released as usual.
> 
> However, satellite images taken from WorldView-2(A very high resolution satellite) suggests that there were no holes(of any sort) on the rooftops — or any damage to the Infrastructure.
> 
> Australian Strategic Policy Institute made an assessment that the precision-guided munitions (PGMs) launched in the strike were incorrectly programmed, undermining the precision in reaching the targets.



bas kr do yar isse. 

There are 10s of threads on this topic and each and every lie has been discussed to death.

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## loanranger

MZ-PDF said:


> First, It should be kept in mind that IAF pilots who carried out the Balakot Airstrikes were mentally and physically unprepared for the mission. Pre-Balakot, they were smoking a lot of cigarettes, were moving back & forth in fear and anxiety, and were unable to sleep as well.
> 
> #IAF has also admitted that the whole operation didn’t go as planned. #IAF fighter fleet failed to withstand the weather conditions and had trouble with the cloud cover. For this reason, the Crystal Maze(Six as planned) were not launched.
> 
> One SPICE 2000 didn’t leave the Mirage because of an error in the Inertial Navigation System. There was a mismatch between the location seen by the SPICE 2000 and the Mirage at the point of its delivery, which led to it not being fired.
> 
> Contradiction Number 1:
> 
> According to NDTV, five out of six SPICE 2000 were launched to target four buildings, of which only three were hit. But according to the report by The Hindustan Times, the designated targets were six, of which five were hit.
> 
> Please Note that both NDTV & The Hindustan Times are quoting from sources within the IAF.
> 
> Contradiction Number 2:
> 
> According to IAF, the SPICE 2000 hit their targets without destroying/or causing any damage to the buildings(PGMs created holes on rooftops).
> 
> Yet, according to Indian officials, images retrieved from the Synthetic Aperture Radar(SAR) carried by an airborne platform showed that four buildings had been completely destroyed.
> 
> Note: The images were not released as usual.
> 
> However, satellite images taken from WorldView-2(A very high resolution satellite) suggests that there were no holes(of any sort) on the rooftops — or any damage to the Infrastructure.
> 
> Australian Strategic Policy Institute made an assessment that the precision-guided munitions (PGMs) launched in the strike were incorrectly programmed, undermining the precision in reaching the targets.


Good work.


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## Falcon26

The Indians lied through the teeth to cover up their failures. As usual, their hyper fascist media sold a bogus lie to their public. Too bad, it’s 2019 and international observers have access to high resolution satellite imagery which debunked all their lies. The Indians were intercepted and chased off on 26th February. The following day they received a lesson on how to do precision strikes by PAF which also presented the video recording of the strikes for all the world to see. The panic within the Indian military was best illustrated by the shooting down of an Indian helicopter killing 7 personnel by Indian SAM units. Nothing says confusion and panic like shooting down your own assets in the middle of a war.

The world have debunked and moved on from India’s flimsy lies. Pakistanis should too. The record has been written and the ink has dried.

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## air marshal

https://falcons.pk/photo/General-Dynamics-F-16AM-Fighting-Falcon/2720

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## Ali_Baba

From a different thread, but more Proof from India about the shootdown of the Su30MKI by PAF.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273884020951187456

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## Shameel

*Article on "India and the US-Pakistan F-16 Agreement" published by the Centre for Aerospace & Security Studies, Islamabad:*

https://casstt.com/post/india-and-the-us-pakistan-f-16-agreement/219

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## Hareeb

From Bolton's book: *The Room Where It Happened*
About Feburary 2019:

I thought that was it for the evening, but word soon came that Shanahan and Dunford wanted to talk to Pompeo and me about a ballooning crisis between India and Pakistan. After hours of phone calls, the crisis passed, perhaps because, in substance,* there never really had been one*. But when two nuclear powers spin up their military capabilities, it is best not to ignore it. No one else cared at the time, but the point was clear to me: this was what happened when people didn’t take nuclear proliferation from the likes of Iran and North Korea seriously.

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## SABRE

Hareeb said:


> From Bolton's book: *The Room Where It Happened*
> About Feburary 2019:
> 
> I thought that was it for the evening, but word soon came that Shanahan and Dunford wanted to talk to Pompeo and me about a ballooning crisis between India and Pakistan. After hours of phone calls, the crisis passed, perhaps because, in substance,* there never really had been one*. But when two nuclear powers spin up their military capabilities, it is best not to ignore it. No one else cared at the time, but the point was clear to me: this was what happened when people didn’t take nuclear proliferation from the likes of Iran and North Korea seriously.



I read some bits of Bolton's books. Quite surprised that he had very little to say about Pakistan and India. That is not necessarily bad news considering who and what Bolton is.

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## PanzerKiel



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## Pak-Canuck

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 647202
> View attachment 647203
> View attachment 647205
> View attachment 647204
> View attachment 647206
> View attachment 647207
> View attachment 647208



Does he still use that email? Maybe someone can personally email him about why IAF claims he downed an F-16 without firing a missle?

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## baqai

i have a feeling he has given on that email account by now lol

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## Shah_Deu

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 647202
> View attachment 647203
> View attachment 647205
> View attachment 647204
> View attachment 647206
> View attachment 647207
> View attachment 647208


I read somewhere that as soon as he realized he is on our territory, we swallowed a piece of paper. Is it true? 

If yes, do we know what it was? Must have been something really secret!

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## loanranger



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## PanzerKiel

Shah_Deu said:


> I read somewhere that as soon as he realized he is on our territory, we swallowed a piece of paper. Is it true?
> 
> If yes, do we know what it was? Must have been something really secret!



Yes , he did try, it was taken out again from his mouth.

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## Shah_Deu

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes , he did try, it was taken out again from his mouth.


LOL...


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## PakFactor

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes , he did try, it was taken out again from his mouth.



Lol. Nice

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## PanzerKiel

I talked to the man who took it out ... Some bits had already been swallowed , however whatever was in his mouth, that person using his fingers took all that out, some bits were thrown in the nearby running stream, they were also recovered, took a good 45 minutes or so to recover everything..... You may find some torn pieces in the pictures posted above.

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## Pakistani Fighter

PanzerKiel said:


> I talked to the man who took it out ... Some bits had already been swallowed , however whatever was in his mouth, that person using his fingers took all that out, some bits were thrown in the nearby running stream, they were also recovered, took a good 45 minutes or so to recover everything..... You may find some torn pieces in the pictures posted above.


Sir ungli andar tak daal kar ulti karwadete Sab nikal jata

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## PakFactor

PanzerKiel said:


> I talked to the man who took it out ... Some bits had already been swallowed , however whatever was in his mouth, that person using his fingers took all that out, some bits were thrown in the nearby running stream, they were also recovered, took a good 45 minutes or so to recover everything..... You may find some torn pieces in the pictures posted above.



On behalf of PDF give that Pakistani solider a salute. Lol



Pakistani Fighter said:


> Sir ungli andar tak daal kar ulti karwadete Sab nikal jata



Lol.

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## Talon



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## truthseeker2010

Hodor said:


> View attachment 647345



Jokes aside, do you think if iaf did another adventure, results would be same?


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## aliyusuf

truthseeker2010 said:


> Jokes aside, do you think if iaf did another adventure, results would be same?


What ails the Indian Armed Forces is that they currently lack vision, proper game plan, savvy tactics and the capacity of their personnel to fully utilize their weapons systems. Their malaise is not going to be fully remedied just by the acquisition of newer potent systems. It will take time for them to get out of the current doldrums they find themselves in. They lost 20 soldiers against China, due to lack ammunition as per their own claim. Twice in a year and a half, they are finding themselves at a disadvantage against an adversary. Pakistan Armed Forces are more likely to spring more surprises on their Indian counterparts in a future encounter.

Just my humble thoughts.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

MZ-PDF said:


> First, It should be kept in mind that IAF pilots who carried out the Balakot Airstrikes were mentally and physically unprepared for the mission. *Pre-Balakot, they were smoking a lot of cigarettes, were moving back & forth in fear and anxiety, and were unable to sleep as well*.


Too much institutional memory for *I* *A*LWAYS *F*AIL...

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## ARMalik

Well after the Ladkah defeat, India has ordered 12 SU-30MKI as attrition replacements. The problem however is the officially, India has only admitted to 11 SU-30 as attrition losses. So what this indicates is that on 27 Feb one SU-30 MKI was shot down by the PAF !

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## Ali_Baba

ARMalik said:


> Well after the Ladkah defeat, India has ordered 12 SU-30MKI as attrition replacements. The problem however is the officially, India has only admitted to 11 SU-30 as attrition losses. So what this indicates is that on 27 Feb one SU-30 MKI was shot down by the PAF !



In Call of Duty speak, we call that "Kill Confirmed!!!"...

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## syed_yusuf

aliyusuf said:


> What ails the Indian Armed Forces is that they currently lack vision, proper game plan, savvy tactics and the capacity of their personnel to fully utilize their weapons systems. Their malaise is not going to be fully remedied just by the acquisition of newer potent systems. It will take time for them to get out of the current doldrums they find themselves in. They lost 20 soldiers against China, due to lack ammunition as per their own claim. Twice in a year and a half, they are finding themselves at a disadvantage against an adversary. Pakistan Armed Forces are more likely to spring more surprises on their Indian counterparts in a future encounter.
> 
> Just my humble thoughts.



i think if IAF comes in full thrust, PAF will be hard pressed and there will be casualties on both sides, more on IAF than PAF based on historical data. Feb 27 2019 was a good indicator but not a comprehensive one. imagine a fleet of 100 jaguars, 50 mirage 2000, 60 mig 29 and 250 su-30 mki all blazing at PAF and ground attack. PAF will be very busy i think. Pakistan Army will hold good but Navy without PAF full support will be struggling. in short Pakistan needs to fight next full thrust with integrated approach.


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## aliyusuf

syed_yusuf said:


> i think if IAF comes in full thrust, PAF will be hard pressed and there will be casualties on both sides, more on IAF than PAF based on historical data.


Correct. 
But only if such an attack is well planned and well orchestrated and furthermore an objective important enough that it warrants such an attack. Because the objectives should justify the risk of the resultant losses on the Indian side. Seems unlikely in current scenario, but not impossible.



syed_yusuf said:


> imagine a fleet of 100 jaguars, 50 mirage 2000, 60 mig 29 and 250 su-30 mki all blazing at PAF and ground attack. PAF will be very busy i think.


Being better trained and hardened professional acumen, IMHO the PAF is more likely to come out on top.



syed_yusuf said:


> Navy without PAF full support will be struggling. in short Pakistan needs to fight next full thrust with integrated approach.


Correct.

*Summary:* The Indian armed forces do not seem to be on their A-game. Last years aerial encounter and the beating it got along the Sialkot LOC sector between the night of the 26th and 27th (last year) shows not only man to man superiority but also better tactical skills and combat smarts of the Pakstan Armed forces. It is my humble opinion, based on their reactions after the last years encounter with Pakistan and in the current crisis with China, the *Indian Armed forces will not get involved in any action in which it cannot guarantee ascendancy with acceptable level of losses.*

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## Myth_buster_1

syed_yusuf said:


> i think if IAF comes in full thrust, PAF will be hard pressed and there will be casualties on both sides, more on IAF than PAF based on historical data. Feb 27 2019 was a good indicator but not a comprehensive one. imagine a fleet of 100 jaguars, 50 mirage 2000, 60 mig 29 and 250 su-30 mki all blazing at PAF and ground attack. PAF will be very busy i think. Pakistan Army will hold good but Navy without PAF full support will be struggling. in short Pakistan needs to fight next full thrust with integrated approach.



war is not fought like a video game.

In reality only half of IAF fleet will be available for war since at any given time 20-30% of their fleet is grounded for maintenance and big portion will also be put in reserve for future conflict use and dont forget China also pose a threat so they cant risk putting all assets up against Pakistan.

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## In arduis fidelis

I am surprised we are still at "*inconclusive " *at Wikipedia on 27th Feb events and not a outright Indian victory.

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## Alchemist17

Please debunk this image. 



Areesh said:


> It is no proof. Any MKI can be called as "avenger 1" and presented as such
> 
> So it doesn't disprove anything. It isn't even a proof to begin with
> 
> Also not to forget IAF didn't share any proof for its claim of shooting down a F16 and same rule of onus applies to that as well


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## Alchemist17

Suriya said:


> imaginary AMRAAMS ?? LOL
> 
> 
> *I mean is there even a whip of evidence out there that Pakistan shot down an Indian Su30??*



This image was taken from the documentary made by Pakistan Government “Invincible Resolve”




Anyone please comment on this image’s credibility. I think if its real/not out of context than its ground breaking evidence.

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## untitled

Alchemist17 said:


> Anyone please comment on this image’s credibility. I think if its real/not out of context than its ground breaking evidence.


Mig29 crash during an airshow in 1993

From 4:30

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## Trailer23

Alchemist17 said:


> View attachment 653097
> 
> Please debunk this image.


Its one of 2 Mig-29's that collided during the RIAT Air Show back in 1993.

Both Pilots survived and were back on Active Duty later that year.

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## The Eagle

Guess what..... Enjoy...... Thanks to the source, of-course.

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## litman

mig 21 which crashed on 27 feb.not a piece from su 30mki. in su 30 mki the rudder boundary is right next to the red color of the flag
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...30_MKI_SB_065.jpg/1200px-Su-30_MKI_SB_065.jpg
in mig 21 however the flag is painted at some distance from the rudder
https://www.samaa.tv/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/1551330825_mig-21-indian-airforce.jpg

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## Amavous

The Eagle said:


> Guess what..... Enjoy...... Thanks to the source, of-course.



If it is the big fish then I really hope that your source provides the full image soon. We are waiting since long to fry this one.

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## litman

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/08/08/world/asia/8-MIG-IndiaInk/8-MIG-IndiaInk-superJumbo.jpg
definitely mig 21. you can see the line of screws going through the lower end of the red paint.

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## The Eagle

litman said:


> mig 21 which crashed on 27 feb.not a piece from su 30mki. in su 30 mki the rudder boundary is right next to the red color of the flag
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...30_MKI_SB_065.jpg/1200px-Su-30_MKI_SB_065.jpg
> in mig 21 however the flag is painted at some distance from the rudder
> https://www.samaa.tv/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/1551330825_mig-21-indian-airforce.jpg





litman said:


> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/08/08/world/asia/8-MIG-IndiaInk/8-MIG-IndiaInk-superJumbo.jpg
> definitely mig 21. you can see the line of screws going through the lower end of the red paint.



No claims are made as of yet. Especially, not by the Source.

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## litman

The Eagle said:


> No claims are made as of yet. Especially, not by the Source.


yeah but we all thought that it could be some pic of the downed su 30 and got excited. the whole world has seen so many pics of the downed mig 21 so it was nothing new.


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## The Eagle

litman said:


> yeah but we all thought that it could be some pic of the downed su 30 and got excited. the whole world has seen so many pics of the downed mig 21 so it was nothing new.



My dear, I don't see anyone posting and being excited about the picture except your posts and me. No one else in thread as of yet. When things are left open ended, everyone can work with it on the basis of knowledge, information available either public domain or OSINT and come up with best analysis. In the end, I can't present "We" of the Forum like this and I will let everyone talk & speak about it so that no one feels being barred from a worthy discussion. I agree that rants are obnoxious but not in this case as no one yet posted or discuss it, at-least in this thread.


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## litman

The Eagle said:


> My dear, I don't see anyone posting and being excited about the picture except your posts and me. No one else in thread as of yet. When things are left open ended, everyone can work with it on the basis of knowledge, information available either public domain or OSINT and come up with best analysis. In the end, I can't present "We" of the Forum like this and I will let everyone talk & speak about it so that no one feels being barred from a worthy discussion. I agree that rants are obnoxious but not in this case as no one yet posted or discuss it, at-least in this thread.


ok i rephrase my post " I "thought that...............................
but i think another member here "amavous" also thought on the same lines.

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## The Eagle

litman said:


> ok i rephrase my post " I "thought that...............................
> but i think another member here "amavous" also thought on the same lines.



That's fine. I read it as it looks otherwise. By the way, if you don't think anything, you wouldn't search or read or understand anything. Sometimes, thoughts helps to learn more. Koi baat nahi.

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## Suriya

*Gentle reminder, I'm still missing Mig21 R-73 missile at the crash site.*


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## Bilal.

Suriya said:


> *Gentle reminder, I'm still missing Mig21 R-73 missile at the crash site.*


No one can convince an indian who simply refuses all evidence. We have seen people like you who say one R73 is missing even after seeing the picture and those who say it’s a fake or even ones who say we acquired it from black market. Funny lot you people...

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## The Eagle

Suriya said:


> *Gentle reminder, I'm still missing Mig21 R-73 missile at the crash site.*



For that it is necessary to ban you from thread and let you have a good time to search those pictures in detail from crash site.... everything was labeled and explained for the lay man or deliberate ignorant.

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## TheTallGuy

@Suriya 

you have not yet debunked my 8 x Kills theory yet.. (3 x Su-30MKI) 2 x from No.15 Sqn and 1 x from No.221 Sqn. i have also claimed (2 x Mirage 2000 Mk 2) No.1 Sqn shot down by JF17s, and 3 x MiG-21BISON (No.51 Sqn)shot down by F16s also..including W/C Abhi.

Total 8 Kills (2 x JF17s, 6 x F-16s) excluding 1 x Mil Mi-8 fratricide by IA

So you know ..we can claim on what we have come to conclusion...after own research. did you ask the Indian Defense ministry? about there losses. write them they will not write you back. there will be no denial.

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## Trailer23

Not sure if either of these videos/versions have been posted in the past...

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## Cookie Monster

Suriya said:


> *Gentle reminder, I'm still missing Mig21 R-73 missile at the crash site.*


5 F16s were downed...the only reason Abhinandan's Mig21 crashed is bcuz he chose to eject when in range of PAF F16s...landed on them and a bollywood style hand to hand fight ensued. He defeated the pilots of all those F16s...and then inexplicably through Indian technological prowess...some bollywood girl was beamed up into the sky where she did an item number for Abhinandan. Abhinandan felt bad for Pakistan...and to give us a face saving way out...he heroically allowed himself to be captured.

That's enough material for ur self fellatio...now leave this thread.

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## SQ8

The Eagle said:


> For that it is necessary to ban you from thread and let you have a good time to search those pictures in detail from crash site.... everything was labeled and explained for the lay man or deliberate ignorant.


Or a 2 bit cheap troll

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## air marshal

https://www.falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/2862

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Anyone know how many casaulties there were on 27th February?

I think 1 Su-30 had crashed or something around that date. Is that correct?

Did the pilot(s) survive?
Were there any civilian casaulties on the ground?
1 helicopter was shot down

How many people died who were travelling in the helicopter?
Were there any casualties on the ground?
How many Pakistani bombs/missiles were dropped on Indian Occupied Kashmir by PAF?

I would appreciate these figures if possible please.


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## Metal 0-1

*Alright folks let me explain the 27th Feb situation...
*
Now hear me out,
On 27th Feb, a strike package consisting of four Mirages V and two JF-17 dropped their ordinance at two different locations..... A group of F-16s AMs and BMs provided top cover to strike package. When all hell broke on Indian Radars they vectored SU-30MKIs and M-2000 to intercept them but they were lured into ambush..

*SU-30(1)*
F-16BM of No. 11 Sqn Arrows Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddique locked onto SU-30MKI and hit the target....
According to Indian officials AMRAAMs fired at SU-30s at the distance of ~50KM. They said Pakistan fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Su-30 but no one was able to hit their jet..

Indians found the piece of AMRAAM immediately and they transported to Delhi under 24hrs. Spain fired an AMRAAM over Estonia but whole NATO was not able to find its debris but Indians found it. If they found one AMRAAM where are the others?

They showed AMRAAM as proof of their claim of F-16 shot down and usage. I get it they wanted to show Uncle Sam that Pakis used their F-16s as aggression.(Keep this pint in mind)

Now back to the AMRAAM. Where did it came from. Fell out of sky into Indian high command laps in Delhi. What if they found that AMRAAM from their Flanker Debris. 

*Poor Mi-17:*
Why there was Mi-17 flying with all heat of battle? Because it was SAR bird meant for Flanker. SPYDER SAM commander was looking for the answers and was in confusion. His answer and remedy for his confusion was a bird which he saw on radar and ordered to shoot down that SAR bird. But his worries increased.

*Now, the the mighty MIG-21 Bison...*
After all this, they scrambled a Mig-21 Bison flown by Abhinandan. DA-20 Flacon and Saab 2000 Eriye did superb job. 
As a Response Wg Cmdr Nouman Ali flying his F-16AM from No.11Sqn locked on Mig. Abhinandan went all blind. Because of PAF Superior Electronic warfare planes. F-16s were data linked to Saab 2000. F-16s didn't have to use the radar.. This was plus point...

Now, remaining in depth story of the Mig-21 is as follow thanks to this article.
Please give it a read most of the matter resolves just by this article.
_______________________________________________________________

According this article pattern of debris of Mig-21 was towards LOC. Means Abhinandan realozed his mistake, but it was too late.






*Now, did he shot down F-16? Answer is"Hell No"
*
Pakistan found intact seeker of R-73. Indians said but the fuze went off. Possible because of crash and explosion when AMRAAM fuze went off near MIG.





If we look closely to this screen shots it clear that R-73 rocket motor is still attached to pylon. Missile never left the aircraft.



































2x R-77 and 2x R-73 were recovered from Mig-21 wreckage. 1 R-73 did explode but on its own pylon/launch rail and most probably on the ground when the plane was still engulfed in flames. Because of the explosion the left wing flipped upside down exposing the pylon with R-73 tail section stick attached to it.

One problem with the IAF story. Too far. The location of the 1st chute is >30 km from where Mig-21 was shot down. That's outside the range of the R-73. Not conclusive but it begs the question why an F-16 would be heading NW when its base is in a very different direction.





This is what a f-16 Crash looks like..





Not like this.





They said F-16 was from No.19 Sqn. Why Pakistan will send Non-BVR capable F-16 to high risk environment. By the way No.19 Sqn based is a part of Southern Air Command not Northern. They said pilot was Wing Commander Shahzaz-Udin(WTF) then later changed to Shazad udin. But a good friend "Knuckles" 
on F-16.net said to a Indian member when he claimed this that "He was at Maxwell AFB for a dinner party and he had a nice talk with him. So Indians claimed Shahzaz Udin was at Maxwell AFB at that time.

How Indians managed to see chutes 50km inside Pakistan.

Pakistan cannot hide this from Lockheed Martin and US. If there was F-16 missing LM could have have announced. After a physical count there is no way PAF could smuggle that F-16 with same serial number.

F-16 is out of the question...........

*Now the SU-30 MKI(2) and other pilots:*
I think i don't need to explain this point. Alright for our Indian Members. Ground witness claim that there were two parachutes near LOC majority said it was across LOC on the Indian side. 
*->*4-5 AMRAAMs fired at SU-30 somehow they manged to dodge(How?)
*-> *AMRAAM Deris
*->* Witnessed claim of chutes acoss the LOC.
*-> *Videos of SU-30MKI like jet falling down.....

*Ye case pani ki tarah saaf hai my lord*​Now Pakistan actually played smart. The point I asked to keep in mind t was they wanted US to put sanctions on Pakistan for misuse of F-16s. As I said PAF played smart and lured Indian jets towards LOC to use F-16 in defense.....


Now still Indians think story is other way. Me ab kya kr skta hun....

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## Metal 0-1

I Forgot to add one thing..

If Abhinandan was in Air Combat why his MIG-21 drop tanks found near Mig crash site. Anyone who knows the procedure of A2A combat first thing you do is to jettison fuel tanks to reduce extra weight. So this way his mig drop tanks should be found in Indian side or just close to LOC..

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## wasileo80

Suriya said:


> *Gentle reminder, I'm still missing Mig21 R-73 missile at the crash site.*


Ok then keep missing the R-73..


----------



## graphican

Metal 0-1 said:


> *Alright folks let me explain the 27th Feb situation...
> *
> Now hear me out,
> On 27th Feb, a strike package consisting of four Mirages V and two JF-17 dropped their ordinance at two different locations..... A group of F-16s AMs and BMs provided top cover to strike package. When all hell broke on Indian Radars they vectored SU-30MKIs and M-2000 to intercept them but they were lured into ambush..
> 
> *SU-30(1)*
> F-16BM of No. 11 Sqn Arrows Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddique locked onto SU-30MKI and hit the target....
> According to Indian officials AMRAAMs fired at SU-30s at the distance of ~50KM. They said Pakistan fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Su-30 but no one was able to hit their jet..
> 
> Indians found the piece of AMRAAM immediately and they transported to Delhi under 24hrs. Spain fired an AMRAAM over Estonia but whole NATO was not able to find its debris but Indians found it. If they found one AMRAAM where are the others?
> 
> They showed AMRAAM as proof of their claim of F-16 shot down and usage. I get it they wanted to show Uncle Sam that Pakis used their F-16s as aggression.(Keep this pint in mind)
> 
> Now back to the AMRAAM. Where did it came from. Fell out of sky into Indian high command laps in Delhi. What if they found that AMRAAM from their Flanker Debris.
> 
> *Poor Mi-17:*
> Why there was Mi-17 flying with all heat of battle? Because it was SAR bird meant for Flanker. SPYDER SAM commander was looking for the answers and was in confusion. His answer and remedy for his confusion was a bird which he saw on radar and ordered to shoot down that SAR bird. But his worries increased.
> 
> *Now, the the mighty MIG-21 Bison...*
> After all this, they scrambled a Mig-21 Bison flown by Abhinandan. DA-20 Flacon and Saab 2000 Eriye did superb job.
> As a Response Wg Cmdr Nouman Ali flying his F-16AM from No.11Sqn locked on Mig. Abhinandan went all blind. Because of PAF Superior Electronic warfare planes. F-16s were data linked to Saab 2000. F-16s didn't have to use the radar.. This was plus point...
> 
> Now, remaining in depth story of the Mig-21 is as follow thanks to this article.
> Please give it a read most of the matter resolves just by this article.
> _______________________________________________________________
> 
> According this article pattern of debris of Mig-21 was towards LOC. Means Abhinandan realozed his mistake, but it was too late.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now, did he shot down F-16? Answer is"Hell No"
> *
> Pakistan found intact seeker of R-73. Indians said but the fuze went off. Possible because of crash and explosion when AMRAAM fuze went off near MIG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we look closely to this screen shots it clear that R-73 rocket motor is still attached to pylon. Missile never left the aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 656109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2x R-77 and 2x R-73 were recovered from Mig-21 wreckage. 1 R-73 did explode but on its own pylon/launch rail and most probably on the ground when the plane was still engulfed in flames. Because of the explosion the left wing flipped upside down exposing the pylon with R-73 tail section stick attached to it.
> 
> One problem with the IAF story. Too far. The location of the 1st chute is >30 km from where Mig-21 was shot down. That's outside the range of the R-73. Not conclusive but it begs the question why an F-16 would be heading NW when its base is in a very different direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what a f-16 Crash looks like..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They said F-16 was from No.19 Sqn. Why Pakistan will send Non-BVR capable F-16 to high risk environment. By the way No.19 Sqn based is a part of Southern Air Command not Northern. They said pilot was Wing Commander Shahzaz-Udin(WTF) then later changed to Shazad udin. But a good friend "Knuckles"
> on F-16.net said to a Indian member when he claimed this that "He was at Maxwell AFB for a dinner party and he had a nice talk with him. So Indians claimed Shahzaz Udin was at Maxwell AFB at that time.
> 
> How Indians managed to see chutes 50km inside Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan cannot hide this from Lockheed Martin and US. If there was F-16 missing LM could have have announced. After a physical count there is no way PAF could smuggle that F-16 with same serial number.
> 
> F-16 is out of the question...........
> 
> *Now the SU-30 MKI(2) and other pilots:*
> I think i don't need to explain this point. Alright for our Indian Members. Ground witness claim that there were two parachutes near LOC majority said it was across LOC on the Indian side.
> *->*4-5 AMRAAMs fired at SU-30 somehow they manged to dodge(How?)
> *-> *AMRAAM Deris
> *->* Witnessed claim of chutes acoss the LOC.
> *-> *Videos of SU-30MKI like jet falling down.....
> 
> *Ye case pani ki tarah saaf hai my lord*​Now Pakistan actually played smart. The point I asked to keep in mind t was they wanted US to put sanctions on Pakistan for misuse of F-16s. As I said PAF played smart and lured Indian jets towards LOC to use F-16 in defense.....
> 
> 
> Now still Indians think story is other way. Me ab kya kr skta hun....



Indians do not disagree with Pakistan because they believe their story, they disagree because the truth is beyond their capacity to handle. Shame, humiliation and sense of defeat force them to go into a semi-retard mindset and "happily cry" F-16 was downed and no Su-30 was lost.

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## The Eagle

Metal 0-1 said:


>



They just revealed two of their own chutes.

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Suriya said:


> *Gentle reminder, I'm still missing Mig21 R-73 missile at the crash site.*



Ask Abhinandan.

How long do we have to wait for him to make a claim and give a statement?

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## ziaulislam

Metal 0-1 said:


> *Alright folks let me explain the 27th Feb situation...
> *
> Now hear me out,
> On 27th Feb, a strike package consisting of four Mirages V and two JF-17 dropped their ordinance at two different locations..... A group of F-16s AMs and BMs provided top cover to strike package. When all hell broke on Indian Radars they vectored SU-30MKIs and M-2000 to intercept them but they were lured into ambush..
> 
> *SU-30(1)*
> F-16BM of No. 11 Sqn Arrows Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddique locked onto SU-30MKI and hit the target....
> According to Indian officials AMRAAMs fired at SU-30s at the distance of ~50KM. They said Pakistan fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Su-30 but no one was able to hit their jet..
> 
> Indians found the piece of AMRAAM immediately and they transported to Delhi under 24hrs. Spain fired an AMRAAM over Estonia but whole NATO was not able to find its debris but Indians found it. If they found one AMRAAM where are the others?
> 
> They showed AMRAAM as proof of their claim of F-16 shot down and usage. I get it they wanted to show Uncle Sam that Pakis used their F-16s as aggression.(Keep this pint in mind)
> 
> Now back to the AMRAAM. Where did it came from. Fell out of sky into Indian high command laps in Delhi. What if they found that AMRAAM from their Flanker Debris.
> 
> *Poor Mi-17:*
> Why there was Mi-17 flying with all heat of battle? Because it was SAR bird meant for Flanker. SPYDER SAM commander was looking for the answers and was in confusion. His answer and remedy for his confusion was a bird which he saw on radar and ordered to shoot down that SAR bird. But his worries increased.
> 
> *Now, the the mighty MIG-21 Bison...*
> After all this, they scrambled a Mig-21 Bison flown by Abhinandan. DA-20 Flacon and Saab 2000 Eriye did superb job.
> As a Response Wg Cmdr Nouman Ali flying his F-16AM from No.11Sqn locked on Mig. Abhinandan went all blind. Because of PAF Superior Electronic warfare planes. F-16s were data linked to Saab 2000. F-16s didn't have to use the radar.. This was plus point...
> 
> Now, remaining in depth story of the Mig-21 is as follow thanks to this article.
> Please give it a read most of the matter resolves just by this article.
> _______________________________________________________________
> 
> According this article pattern of debris of Mig-21 was towards LOC. Means Abhinandan realozed his mistake, but it was too late.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now, did he shot down F-16? Answer is"Hell No"
> *
> Pakistan found intact seeker of R-73. Indians said but the fuze went off. Possible because of crash and explosion when AMRAAM fuze went off near MIG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we look closely to this screen shots it clear that R-73 rocket motor is still attached to pylon. Missile never left the aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 656109
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2x R-77 and 2x R-73 were recovered from Mig-21 wreckage. 1 R-73 did explode but on its own pylon/launch rail and most probably on the ground when the plane was still engulfed in flames. Because of the explosion the left wing flipped upside down exposing the pylon with R-73 tail section stick attached to it.
> 
> One problem with the IAF story. Too far. The location of the 1st chute is >30 km from where Mig-21 was shot down. That's outside the range of the R-73. Not conclusive but it begs the question why an F-16 would be heading NW when its base is in a very different direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what a f-16 Crash looks like..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They said F-16 was from No.19 Sqn. Why Pakistan will send Non-BVR capable F-16 to high risk environment. By the way No.19 Sqn based is a part of Southern Air Command not Northern. They said pilot was Wing Commander Shahzaz-Udin(WTF) then later changed to Shazad udin. But a good friend "Knuckles"
> on F-16.net said to a Indian member when he claimed this that "He was at Maxwell AFB for a dinner party and he had a nice talk with him. So Indians claimed Shahzaz Udin was at Maxwell AFB at that time.
> 
> How Indians managed to see chutes 50km inside Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan cannot hide this from Lockheed Martin and US. If there was F-16 missing LM could have have announced. After a physical count there is no way PAF could smuggle that F-16 with same serial number.
> 
> F-16 is out of the question...........
> 
> *Now the SU-30 MKI(2) and other pilots:*
> I think i don't need to explain this point. Alright for our Indian Members. Ground witness claim that there were two parachutes near LOC majority said it was across LOC on the Indian side.
> *->*4-5 AMRAAMs fired at SU-30 somehow they manged to dodge(How?)
> *-> *AMRAAM Deris
> *->* Witnessed claim of chutes acoss the LOC.
> *-> *Videos of SU-30MKI like jet falling down.....
> 
> *Ye case pani ki tarah saaf hai my lord*​Now Pakistan actually played smart. The point I asked to keep in mind t was they wanted US to put sanctions on Pakistan for misuse of F-16s. As I said PAF played smart and lured Indian jets towards LOC to use F-16 in defense.....
> 
> 
> Now still Indians think story is other way. Me ab kya kr skta hun....


The story of f16 has been laid to rest by independent third party while the story of strikes have been laid to rest BY MULITIPLE OPEN sources and satellite images..

Noone takes india claim seriously everyone understand its for domestic consumption

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## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> @Suriya
> 
> you have not yet debunked my 8 x Kills theory yet.. (3 x Su-30MKI) 2 x from No.15 Sqn and 1 x from No.221 Sqn. i have also claimed (2 x Mirage 2000 Mk 2) No.1 Sqn shot down by JF17s, and 3 x MiG-21BISON (No.51 Sqn)shot down by F16s also..including W/C Abhi.
> 
> Total 8 Kills (2 x JF17s, 6 x F-16s) excluding 1 x Mil Mi-8 fratricide by IA
> 
> So you know ..we can claim on what we have come to conclusion...after own research. did you ask the Indian Defense ministry? about there losses. write them they will not write you back. there will be no denial.



Someone on another part of the internet confirms your kills. 

However, I have my own theory about this. I think there were "two bouts". A first one after PAF struck, where abhinandan and the first MKI got shot, and a second one after this one. This second one was a full on combat with multiple aircraft down and was decided by both sides to be kept under the table. 

What did Pak lose from the whole affair? I don't know but I am certain they lost something. Whether some militants that were camped outside the compound or even an aircraft (JF-17?) we don't know.

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## TheTallGuy

Armchair said:


> Someone on another part of the internet confirms your kills.
> 
> However, I have my own theory about this. I think there were "two bouts". A first one after PAF struck, where abhinandan and the first MKI got shot, and a second one after this one. This second one was a full on combat with multiple aircraft down and was decided by both sides to be kept under the table.
> 
> What did Pak lose from the whole affair? I don't know but I am certain they lost something. Whether some militants that were camped outside the compound or even an aircraft (JF-17?) we don't know.



Now...Now! Thats very interesting! My friend...who would that be? who is opening up the Pandora box... what else he has to share about it? 

by the way we had zero losses...thats what actually hurt them the most! they were not able to fire single missile...brother...

Also i have to disagree about 2 x engagements... what my take was Su-30MKI kill was the 1st AIM-120C5 BVR shot 36nm-38nm minimum with 22 second flight time..till it hit...and MiG-21BISON was last to be shot in between 7mins other planes were shot at and killed.

4th Aug-20

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## pkd

Indians are now saying that Su-30MKI aka Raptor of the east aka mini AWACS aka 8th wonder of the world is a lousy plane  
Rude awakening?







also at 1:12:48 Sukhoi is a huge failure and Rafale is its replacement ?????

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## Mrc

pkd said:


> Indians are now saying that Su-30MKI aka Raptor of the east aka mini AWACS aka 8th wonder of the world is a lousy plane
> Rude awakening?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also at 1:12:48 Sukhoi is a huge failure and Rafale is its replacement ?????




In 5 years from rafael will b the same

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## Thorough Pro

No country can make a jet for India to match Indian pilot skills.



Mrc said:


> In 5 years from rafael will b the same

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## Figaro

pkd said:


> Indians are now saying that Su-30MKI aka Raptor of the east aka mini AWACS aka 8th wonder of the world is a lousy plane
> Rude awakening?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also at 1:12:48 Sukhoi is a huge failure and Rafale is its replacement ?????


Yeah because the Indians are obviously the best pilots in the world and if they get shot down or crash, then it is most certainly the aircraft's fault. Indeed, no plane is good enough for the world's best pilots, not even the mighty 6th gen super stealthy/fast/maneuverable Tejas.

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## DrWatson775

TheTallGuy said:


> 4th Aug-20



I assume the date here is a hint at something. Is it the 4th or 14th?


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## serenity

PAF you are too kind to hold back in 2019. Anyway the Indians lost and now they are shaking in fear because JF-17 and F-16 can do whatever they want to useless Indian airforce. The Indian has been shown some of its own ways. They are quick to tell themselves Rafale will be equalizer.

Well done PAF! Hope that PAF will not hold back next time. I hope PAF and PLAAF can shove some PL-12 and PL-15s up IAF Rafale's and their new air marshal bring out PL-15 deep from Rafale's to show the world how far they got penetrated. These hindutvas have no shame and mouths only for lies. PLAAF waiting hungry for IAF to find some balls and come for a fight too. We feel India is getting itchy for another beating but they have already given us our land without fighting.

India surrender because Balakot strike on tree and magic counting of "300 killed" resulted in deep penetration by PAF, captured pilot, Mig-21 kill, Su-30MKI kill, Indian army friendly kills. 2019 aggression on Ladakh and CPEC result in IA tied up, 20+ killed, 50+ captured. Here they have magic counting skills too and invent 100 PLA deaths and PLA despite killing more than 20 Indiqns, they still gave India back the 50 captured. Make sense only to Indian IQ. You can see why India just fights using lies as ammunition on the Jai Jai media now. Because every time they move and fight or show aggression, they receive those results.

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## Path-Finder

pkd said:


> Indians are now saying that Su-30MKI aka Raptor of the east aka mini AWACS aka 8th wonder of the world is a lousy plane
> Rude awakening?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also at 1:12:48 Sukhoi is a huge failure and Rafale is its replacement ?????


----------



## Imran Khan

*Pakistan aircraft enter Indian airspace, bomb site near J&K ammo depot*
Published: February 28, 2019 5:51 AM
*The PAF action came the morning after the Indian Army destroyed five Pakistani posts while retaliating to heavy shelling and firing from across the LoC. *



Ministry of external affairs spokesperson Raveesh Kumar (left) and Air Vice-Marshal
RGK Kapoor during a media briefing in New Delhi on Wednesday
*By Arun Sharma*

At least three Pakistan Air Force (PAF) aircraft violated the Indian airspace over Nowshera and Poonch sectors on Wednesday morning, bombed a site near an Army ammunition depot and a wooded area before they were pushed back by Indian aircraft.


Official sources said one of the Pakistani aircraft was shot down in a dog fight — it took place near Sher Makri in Nowshera — by the IAF which also lost a MiG-21 Bison and its pilot was missing. The Pakistan Army later said the Indian pilot was in their custody.


Nowshera residents said a PAF aircraft showed up at 10.20 am, released a bomb near an ammunition depot at Narian near the Jammu-Rajouri National Highway and retreated.

According to residents, there was a huge explosion but there was no casualty or damage to property since the bomb had fallen in a forest. Police quickly cordoned off the area.


Officials and eyewitnesses said three PAF aircraft entered Indian airspace from the direction of Kalal near Nowshera. While one headed towards the Narian ammunition depot, the other two flew along the LoC after crossing over to the Indian side.

One turned back near Bhimber Gali while the other dropped a bomb in a forest area near Krishna Ghati and then headed in the direction of Azad Kashmir.



The PAF action came the morning after the Indian Army destroyed five Pakistani posts while retaliating to heavy shelling and firing from across the LoC. Defence ministry spokesperson Lt Colonel Devender Anand said Pakistan resorted to “shelling with heavy calibre weapons at 12 to 15 places along the LoC’’ from 6.30 pm on Tuesday. Pakistani troops were also seen “firing mortars and missiles from civilian houses using villagers as human shields’’, he said. The Indian Army, he said, retaliated and “our focussed fire resulted in severe destruction of five Pakistani posts and a number of casualties to Pak Army’’.

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...irspace-bomb-site-near-jk-ammo-depot/1500849/


@Windjammer do not forget this press briefing of indian forces

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## The Eagle

Imran Khan said:


> Sher Makri in Nowshera



That is the same location (IoK) where a witness being interviewed by Indian News Channel said that an IAF jet flying from Rajauri Sector was on fire and went down. So they claimed it to be an F-16 in haste but later found it an MKI and then only shown a piece of AMRAAM which actually took it down and never mentioned Sher Makri are of Bhawani or the wreckage at all. Can anyone expect Indians not doing so despite the area is in IoK?





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Nomad40

TheTallGuy said:


> Now...Now! Thats very interesting! My friend...who would that be? who is opening up the Pandora box... what else he has to share about it?
> 
> by the way we had zero losses...thats what actually hurt them the most! they were not able to fire single missile...brother...
> 
> Also i have to disagree about 2 x engagements... what my take was Su-30MKI kill was the 1st AIM-120C5 BVR shot 36nm-38nm minimum with 22 second flight time..till it hit...and MiG-21BISON was last to be shot in between 7mins other planes were shot at and killed.
> 
> 4th Aug-20


Speed tu bata----you should know what speed means------BTW 31nm

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## Irfan Baloch

serenity said:


> PAF you are too kind to hold back in 2019. Anyway the Indians lost and now they are shaking in fear because JF-17 and F-16 can do whatever they want to useless Indian airforce. The Indian has been shown some of its own ways. They are quick to tell themselves Rafale will be equalizer.
> 
> Well done PAF! Hope that PAF will not hold back next time. I hope PAF and PLAAF can shove some PL-12 and PL-15s up IAF Rafale's and their new air marshal bring out PL-15 deep from Rafale's to show the world how far they got penetrated. These hindutvas have no shame and mouths only for lies. PLAAF waiting hungry for IAF to find some balls and come for a fight too. We feel India is getting itchy for another beating but they have already given us our land without fighting.
> 
> India surrender because Balakot strike on tree and magic counting of "300 killed" resulted in deep penetration by PAF, captured pilot, Mig-21 kill, Su-30MKI kill, Indian army friendly kills. 2019 aggression on Ladakh and CPEC result in IA tied up, 20+ killed, 50+ captured. Here they have magic counting skills too and invent 100 PLA deaths and PLA despite killing more than 20 Indiqns, they still gave India back the 50 captured. Make sense only to Indian IQ. You can see why India just fights using lies as ammunition on the Jai Jai media now. Because every time they move and fight or show aggression, they receive those results.


they make movies to prove their victories

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## wasileo80

Falcon26 said:


> The Indians lied through the teeth to cover up their failures. As usual, their hyper fascist media sold a bogus lie to their public. Too bad, it’s 2019 and international observers have access to high resolution satellite imagery which debunked all their lies. The Indians were intercepted and chased off on 26th February. The following day they received a lesson on how to do precision strikes by PAF which also presented the video recording of the strikes for all the world to see. The panic within the Indian military was best illustrated by the shooting down of an Indian helicopter killing 7 personnel by Indian SAM units. Nothing says confusion and panic like shooting down your own assets in the middle of a war.
> 
> The world have debunked and moved on from India’s flimsy lies. Pakistanis should too. The record has been written and the ink has dried.


PAF only showed the video of that target where they guide the weapon away from actual target.. because Higher Ups in Pakistan dosent want to kill their one very senior Army Officer... But all other targets were hit by weapons released by JF-17s and Other Mirage. And there in fact IA got the real surprise on land other the a Mig and a SU-30 in Air. That was the reason why Modi-Doval nexus planned a missile attack on following night. Because the Aggression shown by PAF and damage done on ground was beyond their imagination. They were not expecting this kind of response from Pakistan.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

When the Muslim warriors receive an order to engage the enemies it basically means an order to drink the _Sherbet-i Shehadet_. Hence, the Indian military can never match the Pak military in this regard. Therefore, Mujib, Mukti Bahini, Last Afgan, TTP, BLA etc. are their lines of ultimate offenses...

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## TheTallGuy

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Speed tu bata----you should know what speed means------BTW 31nm


Speed = distance/time
Distance = speed x time

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## Nomad40

TheTallGuy said:


> Speed = distance/time
> Distance = speed x time


Speed means winning.


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## PanzerKiel

*Accused IAF officers seek to stop court martial*

Two officers facing court martial for their alleged role in an incident of ‘friendly fire’ resulting in shooting down of an IAF Mi-17 chopper at Budgam on February 27, 2019 — a day after the Balakot strikes — have approached the Armed Forces Tribunal to stop proceedings and grant them access to the court of inquiry report. The case has thrown up a tricky legal question. Usually, the court of inquiry report is shared with the accused so that they can prepare a defence. In this case, however, a special clause has been invoked to not share details on grounds of national security. 

Group Captain Suman Roy Chowdhury, the then second-in-command of the Srinagar air base as the chief operations officer (COO) who has been indicted, has moved the principal bench of the tribunal, pleading that the court martial be halted and the full proceedings of the court of inquiry report be supplied to him. The air traffic control (ATC) in-charge, Wing Commander Shyam Naithani, the other officer indicted, has moved a similar plea at the principal bench, challenging his summons for summary of evidence as part of the court martial. 

Proceedings have Slowed Down 
The IAF has invoked powers that enable the air chief to withhold the inquiry report for reasons of national security and only give the accused access to certain portions. A decision to share the report after the tribunal was moved is still to be taken and proceedings have slowed down for now, given the prevailing Covid-19 crisis. 

As first reported by ET, the friendly fire incident took place over Budgam amid an air skirmish on February 27 last year with Pakistan. The air force helicopter was shot down by a Spyder air defence system within 10 minutes of taking off even as a dogfight raged over 100 km away between intruding Pakistani jets and the IAF. Six IAF personnel on board and a civilian on the ground had lost their lives in the crash. The IAF inquiry raised questions on the role of the air traffic controller and the terminal weapons director (TWD) of the airbase, who cleared the launch of the missile. 

The position of TWD rotates between the air officer commanding of a base and the second-in-charge, the chief operations officer (COO). In this case, the TWD on duty was Group Captain Chowdhury. Sources said the inquiry has revealed several violations of standard operating procedures, given that the chopper was in the local flying area (LFA) of the airbase and was in radio contact with ground controllers moments before it crashed. The chopper did not deploy any countermeasures as it did not perceive any threat in the area and received no warning before the missile was fired.

http://idrw.org/budgam-friendly-fire-accused-iaf-officers-seek-to-stop-court-martial/ .

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## SQ8

PanzerKiel said:


> *Accused IAF officers seek to stop court martial*
> 
> Two officers facing court martial for their alleged role in an incident of ‘friendly fire’ resulting in shooting down of an IAF Mi-17 chopper at Budgam on February 27, 2019 — a day after the Balakot strikes — have approached the Armed Forces Tribunal to stop proceedings and grant them access to the court of inquiry report. The case has thrown up a tricky legal question. Usually, the court of inquiry report is shared with the accused so that they can prepare a defence. In this case, however, a special clause has been invoked to not share details on grounds of national security.
> 
> Group Captain Suman Roy Chowdhury, the then second-in-command of the Srinagar air base as the chief operations officer (COO) who has been indicted, has moved the principal bench of the tribunal, pleading that the court martial be halted and the full proceedings of the court of inquiry report be supplied to him. The air traffic control (ATC) in-charge, Wing Commander Shyam Naithani, the other officer indicted, has moved a similar plea at the principal bench, challenging his summons for summary of evidence as part of the court martial.
> 
> Proceedings have Slowed Down
> The IAF has invoked powers that enable the air chief to withhold the inquiry report for reasons of national security and only give the accused access to certain portions. A decision to share the report after the tribunal was moved is still to be taken and proceedings have slowed down for now, given the prevailing Covid-19 crisis.
> 
> As first reported by ET, the friendly fire incident took place over Budgam amid an air skirmish on February 27 last year with Pakistan. The air force helicopter was shot down by a Spyder air defence system within 10 minutes of taking off even as a dogfight raged over 100 km away between intruding Pakistani jets and the IAF. Six IAF personnel on board and a civilian on the ground had lost their lives in the crash. The IAF inquiry raised questions on the role of the air traffic controller and the terminal weapons director (TWD) of the airbase, who cleared the launch of the missile.
> 
> The position of TWD rotates between the air officer commanding of a base and the second-in-charge, the chief operations officer (COO). In this case, the TWD on duty was Group Captain Chowdhury. Sources said the inquiry has revealed several violations of standard operating procedures, given that the chopper was in the local flying area (LFA) of the airbase and was in radio contact with ground controllers moments before it crashed. The chopper did not deploy any countermeasures as it did not perceive any threat in the area and received no warning before the missile was fired.
> 
> http://idrw.org/budgam-friendly-fire-accused-iaf-officers-seek-to-stop-court-martial/ .


It will unravel - conspiracies are impossible to hide when many people are involved.

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## PakFactor

SQ8 said:


> It will unravel - conspiracies are impossible to hide when many people are involved.



Their whole adventure from Balakot Feb 26th and the IAFs handling of Feb 27th is a tragic comedy.

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## The Eagle

PanzerKiel said:


> Sources said the inquiry has revealed several violations of standard operating procedures, given that the chopper was in the local flying area (LFA) of the airbase and was in radio contact with ground controllers moments before it crashed. The chopper did not deploy any countermeasures as it did not perceive any threat in the area and received no warning before the missile was fired.



One can try to run but can't hide. After all, the reason why they allegedly lost a black box to the villagers but on other hand, were so competent to find a piece of an AMRAAM. Yet there was no one to ask question but may be they can't question the great regime of Modi and his followers including the political campaigners aka Indian Military. 

If we draw the list of their lies, twist & manipulation; I bet that a single person can chart down them at once. No doubt that on the day, it was the false superiority complex being shot down beside the IAF birds. The hit on superiority was so much so hard that it may take decades to cover but not possible in this day & age of technology though, can't say about Indians.

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## Dazzler

Armchair said:


> Someone on another part of the internet confirms your kills.
> 
> However, I have my own theory about this. I think there were "two bouts". A first one after PAF struck, where abhinandan and the first MKI got shot, and a second one after this one. This second one was a full on combat with multiple aircraft down and was decided by both sides to be kept under the table.
> 
> What did Pak lose from the whole affair? I don't know but I am certain they lost something. Whether some militants that were camped outside the compound or even an aircraft (JF-17?) we don't know.



PAF suffered no losses on the 27th whatsoever. This is the fact.

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## ziaulislam

PanzerKiel said:


> *Accused IAF officers seek to stop court martial*
> 
> Two officers facing court martial for their alleged role in an incident of ‘friendly fire’ resulting in shooting down of an IAF Mi-17 chopper at Budgam on February 27, 2019 — a day after the Balakot strikes — have approached the Armed Forces Tribunal to stop proceedings and grant them access to the court of inquiry report. The case has thrown up a tricky legal question. Usually, the court of inquiry report is shared with the accused so that they can prepare a defence. In this case, however, a special clause has been invoked to not share details on grounds of national security.
> 
> Group Captain Suman Roy Chowdhury, the then second-in-command of the Srinagar air base as the chief operations officer (COO) who has been indicted, has moved the principal bench of the tribunal, pleading that the court martial be halted and the full proceedings of the court of inquiry report be supplied to him. The air traffic control (ATC) in-charge, Wing Commander Shyam Naithani, the other officer indicted, has moved a similar plea at the principal bench, challenging his summons for summary of evidence as part of the court martial.
> 
> Proceedings have Slowed Down
> The IAF has invoked powers that enable the air chief to withhold the inquiry report for reasons of national security and only give the accused access to certain portions. A decision to share the report after the tribunal was moved is still to be taken and proceedings have slowed down for now, given the prevailing Covid-19 crisis.
> 
> As first reported by ET, the friendly fire incident took place over Budgam amid an air skirmish on February 27 last year with Pakistan. The air force helicopter was shot down by a Spyder air defence system within 10 minutes of taking off even as a dogfight raged over 100 km away between intruding Pakistani jets and the IAF. Six IAF personnel on board and a civilian on the ground had lost their lives in the crash. The IAF inquiry raised questions on the role of the air traffic controller and the terminal weapons director (TWD) of the airbase, who cleared the launch of the missile.
> 
> The position of TWD rotates between the air officer commanding of a base and the second-in-charge, the chief operations officer (COO). In this case, the TWD on duty was Group Captain Chowdhury. Sources said the inquiry has revealed several violations of standard operating procedures, given that the chopper was in the local flying area (LFA) of the airbase and was in radio contact with ground controllers moments before it crashed. The chopper did not deploy any countermeasures as it did not perceive any threat in the area and received no warning before the missile was fired.
> 
> http://idrw.org/budgam-friendly-fire-accused-iaf-officers-seek-to-stop-court-martial/ .


It will shed a light why mi17 was outthere and why it had its IFF turned off

We all suspect the "why" but will give us good insight ..

But it wont happen.

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## baqai

I won't be surprised if these two officers either commit "suicide" or end up having some sort of an accident

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## Flankerhunter

Here is the solid irrefutable evidence of Su30 kill by PAF:
As per IAF records it has lost 11 Su30's till now in different accidents but as per Indian MOD and Media reports the totak no. of Su30 lost by IAF stands at "12" nt 11 and currently IAF has 260 out of 272 delivered jets as result MOD placed an order of "12" new jets as replacement for lost ones.
So How IAF lost tht 12th one?Fact z it was hit by PAF, 11 jets lost in accidents while nd 1 hit by PAf so a total of 12 losses. Credit goes to this guy @swiftretort1 on Twitter who has done an excellent job in coming up with this evidence

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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Flankerhunter said:


> Here is the solid irrefutable evidence of Su30 kill by PAF:
> As per IAF records it has lost 11 Su30's till now in different accidents but as per Indian MOD and Media reports the totak no. of Su30 lost by IAF stands at "12" nt 11 and currently IAF has 260 out of 272 delivered jets as result MOD placed an order of "12" new jets as replacement for lost ones.
> So How IAF lost tht 12th one?Fact z it was hit by PAF, 11 jets lost in accidents while nd 1 hit by PAf so a total of 12 losses. Credit goes to this guy @swiftretort1 on Twitter who has done an excellent job in coming up with this evidence
> View attachment 660423
> View attachment 660424
> View attachment 660425
> View attachment 660426


Only 10 Su-30 MKIs have crashed (11th one in apr 2012 was a minor accident and plane was repaired).

But we have ordered 12 Su-30 MKIs as that is HALs current production rate per year (you can check HAL annual reports if you want). So we have ordered one full year of HALs Su-30 line.


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## Flankerhunter

" A guilty conscience needs no accuser" for past 8 years that 2012 crash wasblisted as the aircraft lost but now all of sudden when @swiftretort1 raised this point bharatrakhshak replaced it as " possibke repair" depsite the facr that it always write CAT3 for repaired jets. Secondly here is the reportfrom your own "First post" accepting a liss of Su30 in 2012 In addition to tht I think you forgot to read hindustan times and ANI clearly wrote "12 losses" so how can they casually eneter extra crash in IAF list









?

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## Flankerhunter

Rafale+Meteor+Spectra said:


> Only 10 Su-30 MKIs have crashed (11th one in apr 2012 was a minor accident and plane was repaired).
> 
> But we have ordered 12 Su-30 MKIs as that is HALs current production rate per year (you can check HAL annual reports if you want). So we have ordered one full year of HALs Su-30 line.


Its max capacity z 12 which doesn't mean u need to order 12 every time I think u forgot to read @htTweets @ani nd all ur newspapers which clearly wrote "12 lost" nd these 12 jets are to replace the lost ones. Simple identify how U lost tht 12th Su30? How can they add extra crash in IAF baggage casually? where is the clarification from IAF if these reports are wrong? Even ANI is quoting MOD officials wrongly?

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## PanzerKiel

Just some random thoughts.....

The fighter pilot is the last remaining example on earth of the military gladiator, the individual champion. His is the last remaining chance going back to the days of chivalry, and go one-on-one against an opponent. A fighter pilot may rely on his aircraft performance the way a worrior of old depended on his horse’s abilities, but ultimately, when two pilots oppose each other in approximately comparable aircraft, the outcome is entirely one of courage and skill. In an age where numbers and mass count for everything and the individual for nothing, there is something very attractive about a fighter pilot. A successful one, of course.

The picture can be overdrawn. A fighter pilot squaring off one-on- one would certainly face problems with his officer commanding, because the air force, as any other branch of service, is interested not in heroics and gladiatorial dash, but in winning. And you win best by team work. The Israelis were the first to call themselves the Orange Juice Air Force because there they don’t encourage drinking, bravado, individuality and dash, but a quiet, unspectacular teamwork. The idea is to shoot more of them for each of us. That is the simple equation that governs air warfare.

The interesting thing about PAF and IAF is that each is a microcosm of their societies and their overall military position.

The Pakistan Air Force has always been far smaller than the I.A.F. The ratio has never been as bad as 1953, when India had about ten jet fighter squadrons to one of Pakistan’s but it has never been better than three-to-one. With resources being so tight, the P.A.F. has always striven to get the best return from a small force.

The P. A. F. reached its peak about 1960. It had ten combat squadrons, seven on the F-86 Sabre, two on B- 57 (the American version of the Canberra) and one on the F- 104 Starfighter, and about 160 combat aircraft. The I.A.F. had about 500 aircraft in 25 large squadrons. 

*The small Pakistani force operates with high efficiency, learning quickly from its American mentors that a small number of highly professional pilots flying standardized aircraft, and backed up with first class maintenance and a well-organized air base system costs less, and is more powerful, than a larger, more disorganized force.
*
The PAF has much smaller pool of fighter pilots, being a much smaller air force. This may not matter in a short war. In a long war, however, one lives off the fat till new pilots are trained, and as India has ample fat, the advantage is theirs. Admittedly the replacement pilots may not be as good as the first-line ones. But as the best ones disappear, or survive to get better, the not-so-good pilots become adequate in comparison to the PAF, which is also losing its good pilots.

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## Irfan Baloch

agree to all this I just want to add that the fighter pilot of today is not at all all alone and on his own today like the old days has the support of AWACS ground control and ground air defense batteries and radars. 

yes in the end it is he who does all the fighting but he can use the high altitude friendly SAM batteries to lure the enemy into their sphere. get the support of EW aircrafts blinding the hostiles and better situational awareness from AWACS and share battle information with other fellow fighters. 
despite all this it is still valid to call the fighter pilot the modern day gladiator who must rely on his mental prowess and wit to overcome his enemy

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## Path-Finder



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## truthfollower

SQ8 said:


> It will unravel - conspiracies are impossible to hide when many people are involved.


what was the reason behind IAF missing the targets?
is it becuase of jamming or as mentioned in the documentary hastily dropped bombs?


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## SQ8

truthfollower said:


> what was the reason behind IAF missing the targets?
> is it becuase of jamming or as mentioned in the documentary hastily dropped bombs?


The reasons are outlined in one of @Ark_Angel ’s posts - you can go through the history on it. Im kind of busy to search for it .

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## Ark_Angel

truthfollower said:


> what was the reason behind IAF missing the targets?
> is it becuase of jamming or as mentioned in the documentary hastily dropped bombs?


Coordinate errors. 
Spatial-Spread Spectrum-mismatch between GPS Coordinates and Topology of the Environment.

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## aliyusuf

Ark_Angel said:


> Coordinate errors.
> Spatial-Spread Spectrum-mismatch between GPS Coordinates and Topology of the Environment.


So it boils down to not being able to use the weapon to it's potential. Could be due to lack of training or lack of caliber or a bit of both.

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## PanzerKiel

PanzerKiel said:


> *Accused IAF officers seek to stop court martial*
> 
> Two officers facing court martial for their alleged role in an incident of ‘friendly fire’ resulting in shooting down of an IAF Mi-17 chopper at Budgam on February 27, 2019 — a day after the Balakot strikes — have approached the Armed Forces Tribunal to stop proceedings and grant them access to the court of inquiry report. The case has thrown up a tricky legal question. Usually, the court of inquiry report is shared with the accused so that they can prepare a defence. In this case, however, a special clause has been invoked to not share details on grounds of national security.
> 
> Group Captain Suman Roy Chowdhury, the then second-in-command of the Srinagar air base as the chief operations officer (COO) who has been indicted, has moved the principal bench of the tribunal, pleading that the court martial be halted and the full proceedings of the court of inquiry report be supplied to him. The air traffic control (ATC) in-charge, Wing Commander Shyam Naithani, the other officer indicted, has moved a similar plea at the principal bench, challenging his summons for summary of evidence as part of the court martial.
> 
> Proceedings have Slowed Down
> The IAF has invoked powers that enable the air chief to withhold the inquiry report for reasons of national security and only give the accused access to certain portions. A decision to share the report after the tribunal was moved is still to be taken and proceedings have slowed down for now, given the prevailing Covid-19 crisis.
> 
> As first reported by ET, the friendly fire incident took place over Budgam amid an air skirmish on February 27 last year with Pakistan. The air force helicopter was shot down by a Spyder air defence system within 10 minutes of taking off even as a dogfight raged over 100 km away between intruding Pakistani jets and the IAF. Six IAF personnel on board and a civilian on the ground had lost their lives in the crash. The IAF inquiry raised questions on the role of the air traffic controller and the terminal weapons director (TWD) of the airbase, who cleared the launch of the missile.
> 
> The position of TWD rotates between the air officer commanding of a base and the second-in-charge, the chief operations officer (COO). In this case, the TWD on duty was Group Captain Chowdhury. Sources said the inquiry has revealed several violations of standard operating procedures, given that the chopper was in the local flying area (LFA) of the airbase and was in radio contact with ground controllers moments before it crashed. The chopper did not deploy any countermeasures as it did not perceive any threat in the area and received no warning before the missile was fired.
> 
> http://idrw.org/budgam-friendly-fire-accused-iaf-officers-seek-to-stop-court-martial/ .



*Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case*

In a significant development, a military court today stayed further action in the ongoing disciplinary action against two officers allegedly involved in the Srinagar chopper fratricide case on the next day of Balakot airstrikes last year. Six Indian Air Force were killed in the case including two pilots and four other crew members over Budgam while they were returning to the Srinagar airbase around the same time when the Pakistani fighters were moving around Indian territory. 

“Both the offices (Group Captain SR Chowdhary and Wing Commander Shyam Naithani) had challenged the court of inquiry (CoI) as well as its finding on the ground of violation of particular air force rules as well as the composition of the Court of Inquiry being contrary to Air Force order,” the counsel of the two officers Ankur Chhibber said. 

“The court after hearing the parties was pleased to direct that prima facie there are violations in the CoI and therefore has directed that no action be taken based on the said CoI and its findings till the next date which is September 30,” he said. 

The Principal Bench of the Armed Forces Tribunal headed by Chairman Rajendra Menon said that “we are of the considered view that the applicant has, prima facile, been able to demonstrate non-compliance with non statutory provisions in the conduct of court of inquiry.” W

hile Gp Captain Chaudhary was the Chief Operations Officer of the Srinagar airbase when the incident took place and the wing commander was the Senior Air Traffic Control officer (SATCO). A missile from the SPYDER air Defence Missile systems was fired at the Mi-17v5 chopper and brought it down immediately.






Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case – Indian Defence Research Wing







idrw.org

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## M.SAAD

PanzerKiel said:


> *Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case*
> 
> In a significant development, a military court today stayed further action in the ongoing disciplinary action against two officers allegedly involved in the Srinagar chopper fratricide case on the next day of Balakot airstrikes last year. Six Indian Air Force were killed in the case including two pilots and four other crew members over Budgam while they were returning to the Srinagar airbase around the same time when the Pakistani fighters were moving around Indian territory.
> 
> “Both the offices (Group Captain SR Chowdhary and Wing Commander Shyam Naithani) had challenged the court of inquiry (CoI) as well as its finding on the ground of violation of particular air force rules as well as the composition of the Court of Inquiry being contrary to Air Force order,” the counsel of the two officers Ankur Chhibber said.
> 
> “The court after hearing the parties was pleased to direct that prima facie there are violations in the CoI and therefore has directed that no action be taken based on the said CoI and its findings till the next date which is September 30,” he said.
> 
> The Principal Bench of the Armed Forces Tribunal headed by Chairman Rajendra Menon said that “we are of the considered view that the applicant has, prima facile, been able to demonstrate non-compliance with non statutory provisions in the conduct of court of inquiry.” W
> 
> hile Gp Captain Chaudhary was the Chief Operations Officer of the Srinagar airbase when the incident took place and the wing commander was the Senior Air Traffic Control officer (SATCO). A missile from the SPYDER air Defence Missile systems was fired at the Mi-17v5 chopper and brought it down immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case – Indian Defence Research Wing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idrw.org














Was this poor Helicopter on a search and rescue mission for the downed Su 30 aircraft??

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## m52k85

PanzerKiel said:


> *Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case*
> 
> In a significant development, a military court today stayed further action in the ongoing disciplinary action against two officers allegedly involved in the Srinagar chopper fratricide case on the next day of Balakot airstrikes last year. Six Indian Air Force were killed in the case including two pilots and four other crew members over Budgam while they were returning to the Srinagar airbase around the same time when the Pakistani fighters were moving around Indian territory.
> 
> “Both the offices (Group Captain SR Chowdhary and Wing Commander Shyam Naithani) had challenged the court of inquiry (CoI) as well as its finding on the ground of violation of particular air force rules as well as the composition of the Court of Inquiry being contrary to Air Force order,” the counsel of the two officers Ankur Chhibber said.
> 
> “The court after hearing the parties was pleased to direct that prima facie there are violations in the CoI and therefore has directed that no action be taken based on the said CoI and its findings till the next date which is September 30,” he said.
> 
> The Principal Bench of the Armed Forces Tribunal headed by Chairman Rajendra Menon said that “we are of the considered view that the applicant has, prima facile, been able to demonstrate non-compliance with non statutory provisions in the conduct of court of inquiry.” W
> 
> hile Gp Captain Chaudhary was the Chief Operations Officer of the Srinagar airbase when the incident took place and the wing commander was the Senior Air Traffic Control officer (SATCO). A missile from the SPYDER air Defence Missile systems was fired at the Mi-17v5 chopper and brought it down immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case – Indian Defence Research Wing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idrw.org


Have the proceedings disclosed anywhere what exactly were the chain of mistakes that caused the incident?


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## Dark1

m52k85 said:


> Have the proceedings disclosed anywhere what exactly were the chain of mistakes that caused the incident?


Switched off the IFF , friends or foes radar in the helicopter. Human error or lack of proper SOP.
That's what these accused guys are probably saying. That in a fluid situation, how could we identify the helio as a friend if radar is off. 
In my armchair view, since the situation was neither peace nor war , but some intermediate position, the rules to be followed were not clear. In peacetime the radar could be off , but in a active situation it should always be on.
But do these iff radars also make you a target with their emissions ?


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## m52k85

Dark1 said:


> Switched off the IFF , friends or foes radar in the helicopter. Human error or lack of proper SOP.
> That's what these accused guys are probably saying. That in a fluid situation, how could we identify the helio as a friend if radar is off.
> In my armchair view, since the situation was neither peace nor war , but some intermediate position, the rules to be followed were not clear. In peacetime the radar could be off , but in a active situation it should always be on.
> But do these iff radars also make you a target with their emissions ?


Sorry I didnt understand. The IFF was probably turned off or we know the IFF was turned off and they are probably using that as an excuse?

I know little about IFF to say if it makes you a target, all I know is some systems work by 'interrogating' a counterpart which then sends a reply, dont know if that makes it a continuously emitting system.


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## Dark1

m52k85 said:


> Sorry I didnt understand. The IFF was probably turned off or we know the IFF was turned off and they are probably using that as an excuse?
> 
> I know little about IFF to say if it makes you a target, all I know is some systems work by 'interrogating' a counterpart which then sends a reply, dont know if that makes it a continuously emitting system.


Suppose their was a gap in the SOP or in the technology or in the communication setup , do you seriously think it would or should be put in the public domain ? These are military matters. Even the officers challenging and it being all in the newspapers is abnormal by military court standards. I hope in the name of 'transparency' the airforce does not reveal any secrets.


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## Trailer23

This image always puts a  whenever I look at it.

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## Talon

m52k85 said:


> Sorry I didnt understand. The IFF was probably turned off or we know the IFF was turned off and they are probably using that as an excuse?
> 
> I know little about IFF to say if it makes you a target, all I know is some systems work by 'interrogating' a counterpart which then sends a reply, dont know if that makes it a continuously emitting system.


It only emitts/answers when it receives an interrogation signal.If the interrogator doesn't receive any reply he (a person, not the computer) will take it as a Foe (as per protocols) but it should be On in a war zone (IFF has many modes).

As a backup,if IFF doesn't respond and you still have a doubt if its Friendly or Foe you can use AWACS or Radio Controllers to contact that particular aircraft,if its Friendly,he will respond.Dont know if the IAF Mi-17 was contacted via Radio to give his bullseye.Speaks volume of IAF competency if they didn't confirm with Radio check.

*Fire it Rajesh, It's an F-16*

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## -blitzkrieg-

PanzerKiel said:


> *Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case*
> 
> In a significant development, a military court today stayed further action in the ongoing disciplinary action against two officers allegedly involved in the Srinagar chopper fratricide case on the next day of Balakot airstrikes last year. Six Indian Air Force were killed in the case including two pilots and four other crew members over Budgam while they were returning to the Srinagar airbase around the same time when the Pakistani fighters were moving around Indian territory.
> 
> “Both the offices (Group Captain SR Chowdhary and Wing Commander Shyam Naithani) had challenged the court of inquiry (CoI) as well as its finding on the ground of violation of particular air force rules as well as the composition of the Court of Inquiry being contrary to Air Force order,” the counsel of the two officers Ankur Chhibber said.
> 
> “The court after hearing the parties was pleased to direct that prima facie there are violations in the CoI and therefore has directed that no action be taken based on the said CoI and its findings till the next date which is September 30,” he said.
> 
> The Principal Bench of the Armed Forces Tribunal headed by Chairman Rajendra Menon said that “we are of the considered view that the applicant has, prima facile, been able to demonstrate non-compliance with non statutory provisions in the conduct of court of inquiry.” W
> 
> hile Gp Captain Chaudhary was the Chief Operations Officer of the Srinagar airbase when the incident took place and the wing commander was the Senior Air Traffic Control officer (SATCO). A missile from the SPYDER air Defence Missile systems was fired at the Mi-17v5 chopper and brought it down immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Military court stays action against officers in Srinagar chopper fratricide case – Indian Defence Research Wing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idrw.org




This deserves a new thread.

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## Myth_buster_1

Dark1 said:


> Switched off the IFF , friends or foes radar in the helicopter. Human error or lack of proper SOP.
> That's what these accused guys are probably saying. That in a fluid situation, how could we identify the helio as a friend if radar is off.
> In my armchair view, since the situation was neither peace nor war , but some intermediate position, the rules to be followed were not clear. In peacetime the radar could be off , but in a active situation it should always be on.
> But do these iff radars also make you a target with their emissions ?



Go watch a video or two about SPIDER sams. They are one of the most advance system in the world which literally identifies aircraft type and model. Even if IFF was switched off then do Indian ground personals should have done a better job at identifying the object. Why would one PA Mi-17 go all the way 80KM inside India just to get shot down? 
It was actually PAF fighters that shot down IAF Mi-17 and now India is just trying to come up with a good story to cover it up.


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## PanzerKiel

Hodor said:


> Dont know if the IAF Mi-17 was contacted via Radio to give his bullseye.


Blinders at work.

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## PradoTLC

dray / Rain Man said:


> Now you are resorting to weak face saver, we have gone into Pakistani airspace and dropped bomb inside Pakistan with precision.




no you didnt...

were are still waiting for you indians to show us surgical strike videos?...

how does it feel know we cleaned your airforces clocks.. and only thing your below average airforce could shoot down is your own helo...


all this eposide show is you indians lie alot and very shamelessly

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## ziaulislam

Hodor said:


> It only emitts/answers when it receives an interrogation signal.If the interrogator doesn't receive any reply he (a person, not the computer) will take it as a Foe (as per protocols) but it should be On in a war zone (IFF has many modes).
> 
> As a backup,if IFF doesn't respond and you still have a doubt if its Friendly or Foe you can use AWACS or Radio Controllers to contact that particular aircraft,if its Friendly,he will respond.Dont know if the IAF Mi-17 was contacted via Radio to give his bullseye.Speaks volume of IAF competency if they didn't confirm with Radio check.
> 
> *Fire it Rajesh, It's an F-16*


I think it was an off book response to su30. May be the reason they kept it like this..
But i do sound foolish here? So no idea how can so many mistakes happen..and then even the black box disappears??

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## PradoTLC

PanzerKiel said:


> Just some random thoughts.....
> 
> The fighter pilot is the last remaining example on earth of the military gladiator, the individual champion. His is the last remaining chance going back to the days of chivalry, and go one-on-one against an opponent. A fighter pilot may rely on his aircraft performance the way a worrior of old depended on his horse’s abilities, but ultimately, when two pilots oppose each other in approximately comparable aircraft, the outcome is entirely one of courage and skill. In an age where numbers and mass count for everything and the individual for nothing, there is something very attractive about a fighter pilot. A successful one, of course.
> 
> The picture can be overdrawn. A fighter pilot squaring off one-on- one would certainly face problems with his officer commanding, because the air force, as any other branch of service, is interested not in heroics and gladiatorial dash, but in winning. And you win best by team work. The Israelis were the first to call themselves the Orange Juice Air Force because there they don’t encourage drinking, bravado, individuality and dash, but a quiet, unspectacular teamwork. The idea is to shoot more of them for each of us. That is the simple equation that governs air warfare.
> 
> The interesting thing about PAF and IAF is that each is a microcosm of their societies and their overall military position.
> 
> The Pakistan Air Force has always been far smaller than the I.A.F. The ratio has never been as bad as 1953, when India had about ten jet fighter squadrons to one of Pakistan’s but it has never been better than three-to-one. With resources being so tight, the P.A.F. has always striven to get the best return from a small force.
> 
> The P. A. F. reached its peak about 1960. It had ten combat squadrons, seven on the F-86 Sabre, two on B- 57 (the American version of the Canberra) and one on the F- 104 Starfighter, and about 160 combat aircraft. The I.A.F. had about 500 aircraft in 25 large squadrons.
> 
> *The small Pakistani force operates with high efficiency, learning quickly from its American mentors that a small number of highly professional pilots flying standardized aircraft, and backed up with first class maintenance and a well-organized air base system costs less, and is more powerful, than a larger, more disorganized force.*
> 
> The PAF has much smaller pool of fighter pilots, being a much smaller air force. This may not matter in a short war. In a long war, however, one lives off the fat till new pilots are trained, and as India has ample fat, the advantage is theirs. Admittedly the replacement pilots may not be as good as the first-line ones. But as the best ones disappear, or survive to get better, the not-so-good pilots become adequate in comparison to the PAF, which is also losing its good pilots.




this is from the book " The war that never was" written Ravi Rikye...

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## ziaulislam

Ark_Angel said:


> Coordinate errors.
> Spatial-Spread Spectrum-mismatch between GPS Coordinates and Topology of the Environment.


Incompetence(wrong co ordinates)? Or deliberate missing?
We will never know

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## m52k85

ziaulislam said:


> Incompetence(wrong co ordinates)? Or deliberate missing?
> We will never know


Hmm shot the CSAR mission to cover up the su-30 loss...


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## maverick1977

m52k85 said:


> Hmm shot the CSAR mission to cover up the su-30 loss...


???


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## Talon

PanzerKiel said:


> Blinders at work.


Could be, wasn't the Heli deep inside IOK? I mean deep enough for a small Jammer like that of DA-20 to jam its radios? I always wanted to know Range and Threat Bubble of DA-20 but can't find it anywhere,so you maybe right..

I don't know what systems DA-20 has,is it capable enough to handle so much aircrafts and some even at long distances?

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## Talon

ziaulislam said:


> Incompetence(wrong co ordinates)? Or deliberate missing?
> We will never know


Incompetence,bombs fell pretty close to the target,if the elevation settings had been correctly put and weather was clear,many innocent souls would have fallen victim.

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## PanzerKiel

Hodor said:


> Incompetence,bombs fell pretty close to the target,if the elevation settings had been correctly put and weather was clear,many innocent souls would have fallen victim.


So... The bad weather in the end saved ALOT MANY souls...... More in the air (as per Indian PM) than on the ground.

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## The Accountant

Hodor said:


> Incompetence,bombs fell pretty close to the target,if the elevation settings had been correctly put and weather was clear,many innocent souls would have fallen victim.


I dont think its incompetence. I think it was an attempt as cassualities means a full on retaliation by Pakistan.

Remember it was a publicity stunt to win election and it worked very well in india. How did they come up with f16 down idea so quickly ? I think it was always the plan.

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## JNUite

PanzerKiel said:


> So... The bad weather in the end saved ALOT MANY souls...... More in the air (as per Indian PM) than on the ground.


Bad weather certainly prevented launch of Crystal Maze missile on board those Mirages.

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## Talon

The Accountant said:


> I dont think its incompetence. I think it was an attempt as cassualities means a full on retaliation by Pakistan.
> 
> Remember it was a publicity stunt to win election and it worked very well in india. How did they come up with f16 down idea so quickly ? I think it was always the plan.


That's the main reason they got beat..they didn't expect retaliation from us.

Really? You think they expected such level of Retaliation from Pakistan that they preplanned F-16 drama? If that were the case then their pilot wouldn't have been humiliated in front of the whole world.

It was total arrogance by India.Maybe their average pilot isnt stupid but their higher command and likes of Modi took themselves as Gods who could march anytime in Pakistan and drop bombs and that's why they were shown such response by Pakistan,to tell them not to take us lightly.

Also if their intentions were just to deliver a message and not actual casualties then Pakistan wouldn't have retaliated the way they did,PAF and Pakistan clearly new Indians intended to kill those people.

F-16 claim was an opportunity that knocked at their doors,DG ISPR'S tweet being main cause of it imo.

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## Talon

PanzerKiel said:


> So... The bad weather in the end saved ALOT MANY souls...... More in the air (as per Indian PM) than on the ground.


Bad weather and PAF reaching in time



JNUite said:


> Bad weather certainly prevented launch of Crystal Maze missile on board those Mirages.


And Spice bomb's camera not being able to locate the target

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## The Accountant

Hodor said:


> That's the main reason they got beat..they didn't expect retaliation from us.
> 
> Really? You think they expected such level of Retaliation from Pakistan that they preplanned F-16 drama? If that were the case then their pilot wouldn't have been humiliated in front of the whole world.
> 
> It was total arrogance by India.Maybe their average pilot isnt stupid but their higher command and likes of Modi took themselves as Gods who could march anytime in Pakistan and drop bombs and that's why they were shown such response by Pakistan,to tell them not to take us lightly.
> 
> Also if their intentions were just to deliver a message and not actual casualties then Pakistan wouldn't have retaliated the way they did,PAF and Pakistan clearly new Indians intended to kill those people.
> 
> F-16 claim was an opportunity that knocked at their doors,DG ISPR'S tweet being main cause of it imo.


I still think it was marketing stunt and not something tengible. Had these been actual attack it had a potential of conversion into full fledge war


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## Talon

The Accountant said:


> I still think it was marketing stunt and not something tengible. Had these been actual attack it had a potential of conversion into full fledge war


Pakistan dropped 6 bombs in IOK,shot down 2 war jets and captured one pilot..if that didn't start a war,I wonder what would..

An all out war between India and Pakistan will happen one more time and for the last time maybe..but starting it is not easy.

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## JNUite

Hodor said:


> Pakistan dropped 6 bombs in IOK,shot down 2 war jets and captured one pilot..if that didn't start a war,I wonder what would..


Bombs dropped fell on empty fields.
One jet shot down after it crossed Pakistani airspace.

But what prevented the war was early release of Abhinandan, I'm sure it was a US/Saudi negotiated release where de-escalation was the most important condition. After that Modi got busy into electioneering campaign tom-tomming Balakot strike.

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## ziaulislam

JNUite said:


> Bombs dropped fell on empty fields.
> One jet shot down after it crossed Pakistani airspace.
> 
> But what prevented the war was early release of Abhinandan, I'm sure it was a US/Saudi negotiated release where de-escalation was the most important condition. After that Modi got busy into electioneering campaign tom-tomming Balakot strike.


Nope... What prevented war was india realizing it has alot of short commings

Abhi would have been released anway one POW has no value to us or india

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## ziaulislam

Hodor said:


> Incompetence,bombs fell pretty close to the target,if the elevation settings had been correctly put and weather was clear,many innocent souls would have fallen victim.


Hard to believe they are so incompetent but again i might be over estimating them


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## ziaulislam

The Accountant said:


> I dont think its incompetence. I think it was an attempt as cassualities means a full on retaliation by Pakistan.
> 
> Remember it was a publicity stunt to win election and it worked very well in india. How did they come up with f16 down idea so quickly ? I think it was always the plan.


Idea came from india media..
Indian Media said abhi is a pakistani pilot not indian as his mustache is too big..

This was before ISPR Tweet

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## StructE

JNUite said:


> Bombs dropped fell on empty fields.
> One jet shot down after it crossed Pakistani airspace.
> 
> But what prevented the war was early release of Abhinandan, I'm sure it was a US/Saudi negotiated release where de-escalation was the most important condition. After that Modi got busy into electioneering campaign tom-tomming Balakot strike.


If Bharat had the upper hand in skirmish they have for sure escalated it get some land in Pakistani Administered Kashmiri. This was blessed by Pompeo, and planned accordingly, PAF is what prevented the war.


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## The Accountant

Hodor said:


> Pakistan dropped 6 bombs in IOK,shot down 2 war jets and captured one pilot..if that didn't start a war,I wonder what would..
> 
> An all out war between India and Pakistan will happen one more time and for the last time maybe..but starting it is not easy.



Yes but at that time objective was to win the election and not to start war with Pakistan otherwise they would have gone for missile strikes.

I cant buy that they didnt consider we striking back. Just consider if we didn't had abhinandan the Indian propaganda machine would have been doing telling the whole world that not only they taken down the terrorist but also a pakistani aircraft.

No one the reality this is all speculation however, one thing is for sure Indians are not stupid enough to think that we would not strike back given NS wasnt in power.

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## diligence

JNUite said:


> Bombs dropped fell on empty fields.
> One jet shot down after it crossed Pakistani airspace.
> 
> But what prevented the war was early release of Abhinandan, I'm sure it was a US/Saudi negotiated release where de-escalation was the most important condition. After that Modi got busy into electioneering campaign tom-tomming Balakot strike.


The bombs did not fall on empty fields. Rather those bombs were droped on empty fields.

Abhi came in and was shot down by PAF. Remaining Indian pilots (including Abhi's wing man and others flying Mirages and Raptors of the East) ran away from the war zone with their tails tuck in their legs. Many Indians claim it was a wise decision because Indian airforce was out-numbered by the PAF in the war theater. That's even more humiliating a justification. A smaller airforce got the bigger one from its neck. FYI, it's a bigger shame. The IAf stayed away (by more than 80Kms) from the LoC for weeks after the beating on 27 Feb. That tells it all.

War was not prevented by the release of the captured Indian pilot. The war was prevented because coward Modi first resorted to missile showdown (after finding that IAF would be humiliated even more if pitted against PAF once again) and was cowed down when he found Pakistan well prepared. BTW, if Modi could send the war planes for missile strike 'deep' in Pakistan in the night on 26 Feb, what stopped him sending IAF planes again to launch another strike on Pakistan on 27 Feb and the next night. I am sure shameless Indians will come out with hundreds of silly justifications.

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## JNUite

diligence said:


> The bombs did not fall on empty fields. Rather those bombs were droped on empty fields.
> 
> Abhi came in and was shot down by PAF. Remaining Indian pilots (including Abhi's wing man and others flying Mirages and Raptors of the East) ran away from the war zone with their tails tuck in their legs. Many Indians claim it was a wise decision because Indian airforce was out-numbered by the PAF in the war theater. That's even more humiliating a justification. A smaller airforce got the bigger one from its neck. FYI, it's a bigger shame. The IAf stayed away (by more than 80Kms) from the LoC for weeks after the beating on 27 Feb. That tells it all.


Did any PAF aircraft crossed Indian airspace on 27th Feb? Ans : NO.

Did any PAF aircraft come closer to Indian Balakot Strike package on 26th Feb? Ans: No

Who closed its airspace for six months? Ans: Pakistan



> BTW, if Modi could send the war planes for missile strike 'deep' in Pakistan in the night on 26 Feb, what stopped him sending IAF planes again to launch another strike on Pakistan on 27 Feb and the next night.


If Modi's intention was to start a war with Pakistan, then could have ordered IAF to strike Pakistan military installations and not a hill top at Balakot.
Btw since India publicly admitted of killing Pakistani citizens in Balakot strike what stopped PAF from striking our military installation in retaliation rather than dropping bombs in empty fields.

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## diligence

JNUite said:


> Did any PAF aircraft crossed Indian airspace on 27th Feb? Ans : NO.
> 
> Did any PAF aircraft come closer to Indian Balakot Strike package on 26th Feb? Ans: No
> 
> Who closed its airspace for six months? Ans: Pakistan


I don't like to fall into a useless silly debate on these points. Indians habitually make 'facts' on the spot. You can claims whatever you like. Afterall you are a silly Indian in any case. But I don't know the true answers to all your above questions. And these questions are not important either. The sever beating that Indians got on 27th is proof of who was the baap, right?




JNUite said:


> If Modi's intention was to start a war with Pakistan, then could have ordered IAF to strike Pakistan military installations and not a hill top at Balakot.
> Btw since India publicly admitted of killing Pakistani citizens in Balakot strike what stopped PAF from striking our military installation in retaliation rather than dropping bombs in empty fields.


Why did Modi send the planes then in the first place on 26th if he didn't mean a war? Are you in your right senses. You attack proper Pak territory without expecting a response? You need to have some shame before making up these senseless claims. Just tell me if any one - just one - expert in the whole world who have supported or endorsed any one - I mean a single- Indian claim regarding the India's Balakot disgrace. I don't care what you claim. I care what a human claims.

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## Trailer23

After the events of 27th Feb., 2019 - how long did it take for Hasan Siddiqui to get promoted from *Sqn Ldr* to *Wg Cdr.*?







@airomerix @Hodor @Raider 21


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## arjunk

JNUite said:


> Did any PAF aircraft crossed Indian airspace on 27th Feb? Ans : NO.
> 
> Did any PAF aircraft come closer to Indian Balakot Strike package on 26th Feb? Ans: No
> 
> Who closed its airspace for six months? Ans: Pakistan
> 
> 
> If Modi's intention was to start a war with Pakistan, then could have ordered IAF to strike Pakistan military installations and not a hill top at Balakot.
> Btw since India publicly admitted of killing Pakistani citizens in Balakot strike what stopped PAF from striking our military installation in retaliation rather than dropping bombs in empty fields.



Is it WW1? No. The PAF could've silently killed your COAS without even crossing the LoC. Now imagine what damage they could do if they did 

Yes, they came close which is why the IAF jets jettisoned their payloads and gifted us an intact SPICE to reverse engineer... Your puppet Ganja shareef must have told you all about our reverse engineering skills.

What stopped the PAF from killing innocents for no reason is that there were no Pakistanis harmed except an old man who got minor injuries and his little house was damaged. That's a fair exchange for PTSD in all the Indians who experienced the wrath of the PAF, and humiliating India in front of the world.
Oh, and Tejas were nowhere to be seen while JF-17s were playing around with your mirages. And our decades old mirages were the ones who did most of the strikes, so imagine what F-16s and JF-17s are capable of.

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## ziaulislam

The Accountant said:


> Yes but at that time objective was to win the election and not to start war with Pakistan otherwise they would have gone for missile strikes.
> 
> I cant buy that they didnt consider we striking back. Just consider if we didn't had abhinandan the Indian propaganda machine would have been doing telling the whole world that not only they taken down the terrorist but also a pakistani aircraft.
> 
> No one the reality this is all speculation however, one thing is for sure Indians are not stupid enough to think that we would not strike back given NS wasnt in power.


same here.. however, they theorized that bombing an empty area with no causalities will probably not create an argument for strikes given how weak Pakistan was(historically bad)..we were short of 30 billion dollars of financing (due to over runaway project 24b CAD alone) and were at verge of default..

hence even i thought we will not respond

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## ziaulislam

however, if there werecausalities, i would have expected a response (so would have india)..which makes me wonder, did india missed on purpose..

however, on second thoughts, the madrassa was probably empty especially at night


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## The Accountant

ziaulislam said:


> however, if there werecausalities, i would have expected a response (so would have india)..which makes me wonder, did india missed on purpose..
> 
> however, on second thoughts, the madrassa was probably empty especially at night


India missed it on purpose ... It was a marketing activity as well as testing Pakistan's reaction.

Pakistan reaction was appropriate and the real achievement was taking down bison and mki with complete theatre level air superiority of PAF which was a big surprise for IAF and modi ... Had we not got abhi India's propaganda macgine would have trying to convince indians and the world that they won the battle ...


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## Arsalan 345

Get ready for another round of escalation. We must not leave them unharmed this time. Target as many military targets as possible. No mercy!


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## North Star

Some rumours have it that things are heating up and an attack by India cannot be ruled out in a months time.

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## PakFactor

North Star said:


> Some rumours have it that things are heating up and an attack by India cannot be ruled out in a months time.



Another surgical strike? The threat is always their it’s just the seriousness we need to judge. If they come this time around hopefully our AD shoot them out of the sky.


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## HaMoTZeMaS

North Star said:


> Some rumours have it that things are heating up and an attack by India cannot be ruled out in a months time.


So much hype is there for October.. 

Remember.. When Masses starts calling the things over and over again intentinally for longer periods , which initially are nowhere in reality, Start to happen


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## Ali_Baba

North Star said:


> Some rumours have it that things are heating up and an attack by India cannot be ruled out in a months time.



What utter rubbish. India is too busy with China to think about anything right now..


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## Talon

Trailer23 said:


> After the events of 27th Feb., 2019 - how long did it take for Hasan Siddiqui to get promoted from *Sqn Ldr* to *Wg Cdr.*?
> 
> View attachment 675747
> 
> 
> @airomerix @Hodor @Raider 21


His promotion has nothing to do with his scores against IAF,of course this has improved his service record but promotions are not solely based on such events

He recently graduated from CCS and that's why he's been promoted,as far as I know Wg Cdr Noman is still a Wg Cdr and not promoted to Gp Cpt rank yet,if promotions were on kills basis then all participants would have been promoted..

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## TheTallGuy

Hodor said:


> His promotion has nothing to do with his scores against IAF,of course this has improved his service record but promotions are not solely based on such events
> 
> He recently graduated from CCS and that's why he's been promoted,as far as I know Wg Cdr Noman is still a Wg Cdr and not promoted to Gp Cpt rank yet,if promotions were on kills basis then all participants would have been promoted..



Sir Jee..all participents...??


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## Talon

TheTallGuy said:


> Sir Jee..all participents...??


I said *would have *...of all the participants of the actual operation,I am aware of only 3 who have been promoted so far,2 of them being promoted only after passing their CCS course..

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## Readerdefence

Hodor said:


> I said *would have *...of all the participants of the actual operation,I am aware of only 3 who have been promoted so far,2 of them being promoted only after passing their CCS course..


Hi just a little off topic who is in line or rather first three in line for the promotion of ACM I believe early next year 
if possible to answer 
thank you

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## TsAr

Readerdefence said:


> Hi just a little off topic who is in line or rather first three in line for the promotion of ACM I believe early next year
> if possible to answer
> thank you



Ahmar Shahzad (he is retiring in Dec this year so out of the race)
Syed Noman Ali
Zaheer Ahmad Babar
Javad Saeed
Muhammad Haseeb Paracha
All except Javed Saeed(AD) are GDP so he is unlikely to be promoted as ACM.

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## Clairvoyant

TsAr said:


> Ahmar Shahzad (he is retiring in Dec this year so out of the race)
> Syed Noman Ali
> Zaheer Ahmad Babar
> Javad Saeed
> Muhammad Haseeb Paracha
> All except Javed Saeed(AD) are GDP so he is unlikely to be promoted as ACM.




Jawad Saeed was OC 9 squadron and a much better pilot than Haseeb Paracha but end of the day it will be Paracha who will become the next ACM.

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## Readerdefence

Clairvoyant said:


> Jawad Saeed was OC 9 squadron and a much better pilot than Haseeb Paracha but end of the day it will be Paracha who will become the next ACM.


Hi is it a norm in PAF to supersede the seniors in line for ACM post 
coz usually isn’t it the top first or second in line for promotion 
thank you


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## Zarvan

Readerdefence said:


> Hi is it a norm in PAF to supersede the seniors in line for ACM post
> coz usually isn’t it the top first or second in line for promotion
> thank you


In most cases it's senior most guy. But this time it would be very difficult to not make Paracha next Air Chief

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## N.Siddiqui

*Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' over Kashmir - BBC News*
3,727,562 views
•Feb 27, 2019

33K8.3KSHARESAVE











*Actually pleasantly surprised by so many comments from all over the world, and the felicitations shown by different countries....on this YouTube video.*

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## monitor

Wg Cdr Hasan Siddiqi during his visit to Operation Swift Retort Gallery at PAF Museum. He is the same dude who harassed the Flanker pair with AMRAAMs during #Swift_Retort. One Su-30MKI managed to dodge while the other one was not lucky enough. 










#FlankerSlayer

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## Reichsmarschall

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.


I love this enviable confidence of Indians. 
If only I was as confident as these guys.












Chhatrapati said:


> To fool gullible bunch. Nothing of such happened.


Lol you sounded so confident.

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## mshan44



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## The Eagle

@Reichsmarschall that video is posted in this thread before as well, showing debris of same plane falling down. MiG-21 to be precisely. Nonetheless, that username itself is inappropriate.

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## Reichsmarschall

The Eagle said:


> @Reichsmarschall that video is posted in this thread before as well, showing debris of same plane falling down. MiG-21 to be precisely. Nonetheless, that username itself is inappropriate.


Ok thanks for clarification. BTW that's name of a subreddit.

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## air marshal



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## khansaheeb

Cash GK said:


> teach them lesson


Like stubborn mules they never learn.


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## nomi007

If Spice 2000 has a guided camera then why Endians are releasing a video of the Balakot air strike?

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## Mujtaba hassan

nomi007 said:


> If Spice 2000 has a guided camera then why Endians are releasing a video of the Balakot air strike?


if they relese vedio they will be exposed though

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## Neurath

This threat is nostalgia. How happy Indians were when the so-called Balakot airstrike happened, and then the next day, they were silenced by our shaheens.

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## Black.Mamba

*THE GREAT INDIAN NATION WANTS TO KNOW WHEN WILL THE VIDEO BE AVAILABLE?*
- Arnab Goswami



nomi007 said:


> If Spice 2000 has a guided camera then why Endians are releasing a video of the Balakot air strike?


They have already been caught with their pants down, what more do you want?

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## maverick1977

True, i might sound greedy, but i wished that our Airforce had buzzed over Srinagar that day after routing their airforce and taking their AD out.
This very symbolic gesture would have echoed azadi azadi, and kashmir banay ga pakistan.

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## nomi007

Touch sky with lies.
These images have been taken from IAF official video 2020,
Spice 2000 bombs with TV guided cameras are clearly visible.
So where are Balakot Targeting videos?

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## Cool_Soldier

That's been gone. Now another Feb 27th is waiting to Test new IAF fighting planes on which they are relying heavily and claiming it would be game changer. Even assuming only few could handle two front war.
Waiting for JF-17 III to counter that threat Inshaa Allah


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## airomerix

In case anyone thinks Su-30 MKI is a hi-tech beast.

A brand new MKI's cockpit. Straight from HAL final assembly.

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## ziaulislam

nomi007 said:


> If Spice 2000 has a guided camera then why Endians are releasing a video of the Balakot air strike?


Obviously it missed 

It missed because i suspect that was the intention all along..

But IAF cant accept that it was intentional miss..


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## Path-Finder

airomerix said:


> In case anyone thinks Su-30 MKI is a hi-tech beast.
> 
> A brand new MKI's cockpit. Straight from HAL final assembly.
> 
> View attachment 692141


what are we looking at here? is it the classic gauges in the center?


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## Raider 21

airomerix said:


> In case anyone thinks Su-30 MKI is a hi-tech beast.
> 
> A brand new MKI's cockpit. Straight from HAL final assembly.
> 
> View attachment 692141


Not bad. Was expecting it to be WAY better. Aircraft flies really well though

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## Myth_buster_1

nomi007 said:


> If Spice 2000 has a guided camera then why Endians are releasing a video of the Balakot air strike?



According to indians.... all spice 2000 lost its footage all at once due to "technical" issue. how convenient...


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## The Eagle

Raider 21 said:


> Not bad. Was expecting it to be WAY better. Aircraft flies really well though



Agreed. It is in-fact better than full analogue/gauges as usual but still, I found that Thunder is installed with bigger displays & appears to be equipped as an advance cockpit.

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## Ali_Baba

airomerix said:


> In case anyone thinks Su-30 MKI is a hi-tech beast.
> 
> A brand new MKI's cockpit. Straight from HAL final assembly.
> 
> View attachment 692141



That cockpit is old school analogue in digital. Russians are in general bad with their software, electronics and more importantly man-machine-interface design concepts. In this area, China is miles ahead of Russia.

The Jeff(JF17) has had a ground up rethink of information, what value that information has, and how it should be displayed. Looking forward to Jeff Block III which will take those concepts of data fusion to the next level, now that PAF has time to work out the kinks from Block 1/2.


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## Wikki019

The wheel of time said:


> most of such videos on youtube are nothing but a load of BS. and as far as intrusion is concerned, the MKI can see upto 400 kms and your F16 will get a missile hit even before they see us coming. So dont believe too much on these nonsense videos.



     
good old days..." Dodgers"

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## undercover JIX

Wikki019 said:


> good old days..." Dodgers"


Raptor of the East, Mini AWACS is dead now, its time for Rafale Puja...

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## Wikki019

The wheel of time said:


> Of course, but that gives us significant advantage above the old f16s of 80s. besides the flankers have unmatched monoeuverability and ever eurofighters were not able to defeat it then where do f16s stand. There is a reason why India does not want them, they are obsolete and stand zero chance against the likes of flankers and rafales and even mig29s



Awwwwww

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## ghazi52

JF-17 Thunder, "Takbeer" REK, 27th February, 2019 and PAF Operation Swift Retort.

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## PDF

Have this photo been shared before?

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## nomi007

A video is circulating on social media regarding Operation Swift Retort, showing Paf sticking missile and bomb.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336740315512889345

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## Metal 0-1

nomi007 said:


> A video is circulating on social media regarding Operation Swift Retort, showing Paf sticking missile and bomb.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336740315512889345


Fake videos. Most of these videos are fire missions in Afghanistan. 

Don't ask me How I know?


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## nomi007

Metal 0-1 said:


> Fake videos. Most of these videos are fire missions in Afghanistan.
> 
> Don't ask me How I know?


You are not an investigative journalist?


----------



## air marshal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343944782654144512

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## M.SAAD

TheTallGuy said:


> Now...Now! Thats very interesting! My friend...who would that be? who is opening up the Pandora box... what else he has to share about it?
> 
> by the way we had zero losses...thats what actually hurt them the most! they were not able to fire single missile...brother...
> 
> Also i have to disagree about 2 x engagements... what my take was Su-30MKI kill was the 1st AIM-120C5 BVR shot 36nm-38nm minimum with 22 second flight time..till it hit...and MiG-21BISON was last to be shot in between 7mins other planes were shot at and killed.
> 
> 4th Aug-20







While its true that a total of 8 AMRAAMs were fired that day, a few in radio silence guided by SAAB only and not by F16 radar, F16 radar was turned on only after we observed a breach of our airspace.. and then later missiles were guided by F16 radar.

We got only 2 hits that day, one Mig21 Bison and the other is Su 30 MKI which got hit, and we have radar evidence of it..

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## GriffinsRule

M.SAAD said:


> While its true that a total of 8 AMRAAMs were fired that day, a few in radio silence guided by SAAB only and not by F16 radar, F16 radar was turned on only after we observed a breach of our airspace.. and then later missiles were guided by F16 radar.
> 
> We got only 2 hits that day, one Mig21 Bison and the other is Su 30 MKI which got hit, and we have radar evidence of it..


How do you know 8 AMRAAMs were fired that day?


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## M.SAAD

GriffinsRule said:


> How do you know 8 AMRAAMs were fired that day?




You can go ahead and ask anyone from the Airforce. Its not a very confidential thing.

Also most people probably wont know that India wanted to retaliate the next day with Missiles and had selected targets within Pakistan with Israel providing the satellite intel, but their plan got leaked to us by a friendly country..

Pakistan had put its Submarines in the sea loaded with SLBMs just in case we couldnt retaliate from land, we would have retaliated from the sea..

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## GriffinsRule

M.SAAD said:


> You can go ahead and ask anyone from the Airforce. Its not a very confidential thing.
> 
> Also most people probably wont know that India wanted to retaliate the next day with Missiles and had selected targets within Pakistan with Israel providing the satellite intel, but their plan got leaked to us by a friendly country..
> 
> Pakistan had put its Submarines in the sea loaded with SLBMs just in case we couldnt retaliate from land, we would have retaliated from the sea..


First off, Pakistan doesnt have any SLBMs. Second, only one A-90B was operational last year and lastly the bit about Indian missile retaliation has been reported many times. However, there is no news about this 8 AIM-120. In fact PAF in its documentary and the show only mentioned 2 missiles, along with its patch showing just two AMRAAM launches. Not to mention, not everyone in the PAF would be privy to details of the operation so no you cant just ask someone and find answers like you say.
Finally, SAAB cant guide AIM-120s to any target, and even if it could, C5 variant doesnt have that capability. Only D model does, which we dont have.

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## M.SAAD

GriffinsRule said:


> First off, Pakistan doesnt have any SLBMs. Second, only one A-90B was operational last year and lastly the bit about Indian missile retaliation has been reported many times. However, there is no news about this 8 AIM-120. In fact PAF in its documentary and the show only mentioned 2 missiles, along with its patch showing just two AMRAAM launches. Not to mention, not everyone in the PAF would be privy to details of the operation so no you cant just ask someone and find answers like you say.
> Finally, SAAB cant guide AIM-120s to any target, and even if it could, C5 variant doesnt have that capability. Only D model does, which we dont have.





Okay, you don't have to believe what I said. Believe whatever you like.

Take care, goodbye!.


GriffinsRule said:


> First off, Pakistan doesnt have any SLBMs. Second, only one A-90B was operational last year and lastly the bit about Indian missile retaliation has been reported many times. However, there is no news about this 8 AIM-120. In fact PAF in its documentary and the show only mentioned 2 missiles, along with its patch showing just two AMRAAM launches. Not to mention, not everyone in the PAF would be privy to details of the operation so no you cant just ask someone and find answers like you say.
> Finally, SAAB cant guide AIM-120s to any target, and even if it could, C5 variant doesnt have that capability. Only D model does, which we dont have.





Sorry, SLCM (Submarine Launch Cruise Missiles) not Ballistic. My mistake.

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## Reichmarshal

2 bvrm were fired which resulted in two kills. Rest is all hear say.


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## White and Green with M/S

M.SAAD said:


> You can go ahead and ask anyone from the Airforce. Its not a very confidential thing.


What are you smoking PAF said they fired only 2 AMRAAM that day and both hit there target


M.SAAD said:


> Okay, you don't have to believe what I said. Believe whatever you like.
> 
> Take care, goodbye!.


All senior and professional members here on PDF who has direct or indirect relation to PAF saying that PAF fired only 2 AMRAAM on 27/2/2019 and both hit their intended target, what your source/backup that PAF fires 8 AMRAAM on that day????

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## M.SAAD

White and Green with M/S said:


> What are you smoking PAF said they fired only 2 AMRAAM that day and both hit there target
> 
> All senior and professional members here on PDF who has direct or indirect relation to PAF saying that PAF fired only 2 AMRAAM on 27/2/2019 and both hit their intended target, what your source/backup that PAF fires 8 AMRAAM on that day????




You are entitled to what you want to believe, but that is NOT true.

Peace!

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## Cookie Monster

M.SAAD said:


> You can go ahead and ask anyone from the Airforce. Its not a very confidential thing.
> 
> Also most people probably wont know that India wanted to retaliate the next day with Missiles and had selected targets within Pakistan with Israel providing the satellite intel, but their plan got leaked to us by a friendly country..
> 
> Pakistan had put its Submarines in the sea loaded with SLBMs just in case we couldnt retaliate from land, we would have retaliated from the sea..


SLBMs? Did u mean SLCMs? Or u really meant SLBM?


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## M.SAAD

White and Green with M/S said:


> What are you smoking PAF said they fired only 2 AMRAAM that day and both hit there target
> 
> All senior and professional members here on PDF who has direct or indirect relation to PAF saying that PAF fired only 2 AMRAAM on 27/2/2019 and both hit their intended target, what your source/backup that PAF fires 8 AMRAAM on that day????





Where did PAF officially said that only 2 AMRAAMs were fired that day?

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## White and Green with M/S

M.SAAD said:


> You are entitled to what you want to believe, but that is NOT true.
> 
> Peace!


you're true or PAF true tell me??? and comes with evidence/backup for your claim, if not no one believe you without any solid proofs to backup you False claim


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## White and Green with M/S

M.SAAD said:


> Where did PAF officially said that only 2 AMRAAMs were fired that day?


ask @HRK @Irfan Baloch @The Eagle @waz these guys have direct and indirect links to PAF and there were interview of an PAF officer posted here on PDF by some members long time ago, this officer clearly stated that PAF fires only 2 AMRAAM, and give the backup for your conspiracy theory that we fired 8 AMRAAM, this stupid conspiracy theory is quite similar that some member claims that we shot down 8 IAF jets last year, show me your proofs that PAF fired 8 AMRAAM that, if not i consider your claim as a STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORY WITHOUT ANY PROOF

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## Zowais

M.SAAD said:


> Where did PAF officially said that only 2 AMRAAMs were fired that day?


Here Bro. Listen to this guy carefully and if your source knows more than him, you can choose to beleive that;


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## PanzerKiel

Some facts are for public consumption only.

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## M.SAAD

White and Green with M/S said:


> ask @HRK @Irfan Baloch
> [QUOTE="White and Green with M/S, post: 12880559, member: 201145"]
> ask [USER=32460]@HRK @Irfan Baloch @The Eagle @waz these guys have direct and indirect links to PAF and there were interview of an PAF officer posted here on PDF by some members long time ago, this officer clearly stated that PAF fires only 2 AMRAAM, and give the backup for your conspiracy theory that we fired 8 AMRAAM, this stupid conspiracy theory is quite similar that some member claims that we shot down 8 IAF jets last year, show me your proofs that PAF fired 8 AMRAAM that, if not i consider your claim as a STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORY WITHOUT ANY PROOF




I have better things to do in my life than to make you believe on something.. So please dont quote me again, you can believe whatever you like.

I reiterate the fact that not 2 but 8 , yes 8 Amraams were fired, we had to fire some because at one point SAAB had a radarlock..


White and Green with M/S said:


> ask @HRK @Irfan Baloch @The Eagle @waz these guys have direct and indirect links to PAF and there were interview of an PAF officer posted here on PDF by some members long time ago, this officer clearly stated that PAF fires only 2 AMRAAM, and give the backup for your conspiracy theory that we fired 8 AMRAAM, this stupid conspiracy theory is quite similar that some member claims that we shot down 8 IAF jets last year, show me your proofs that PAF fired 8 AMRAAM that, if not i consider your claim as a STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORY WITHOUT ANY PROOF







Anyone with real links in PAF and not fake ones would know what Im talking about.

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## White and Green with M/S

M.SAAD said:


> I have better things to do in my life than to make you believe on something.. So please dont quote me again, you can believe whatever you like.
> 
> I reiterate the fact that not 2 but 8 , yes 8 Amraams were fired, we had to fire some because at one point SAAB had a radarlock..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone with real links in PAF and not fake ones would know what Im talking about.


And you you have only real link to PAF other haven't LOL??? and you look at above post YouTube clip that PAF pilots that involved in Interceptions have saying that we were fired only 2 AMRAAM, you're looking to inspired Indian version of the Incident, Indian claims that PAF fired 6 AMRAAM on IAF, who are true YOU or these PAF pilots which involved in the interceptions???

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## M.SAAD

White and Green with M/S said:


> And you you have only real link to PAF other haven't LOL??? and you look at above post YouTube clip that PAF pilots that involved in Interceptions have saying that we were fired only 2 AMRAAM, you're looking to inspired Indian version of the Incident, Indian claims that PAF fired 6 AMRAAM on IAF, who are true YOU or these PAF pilots which involved in the interceptions???






Ok Byeeeeeee.!! Believe whatever you like man. Takecare.

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## White and Green with M/S

M.SAAD said:


> Ok Byeeeeeee.!! Believe whatever you like man. Takecare.


YOU'RE nobody to claim that PAF fires 8 AMRAAM


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## TsAr

White and Green with M/S said:


> YOU'RE nobody to claim that PAF fires 8 AMRAAM


Why are you arguing with him, he is entitled to make a comment, stop using CAPS please.

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## masterchief_mirza

M.SAAD said:


> I have better things to do in my life than to make you believe on something.. So please dont quote me again, you can believe whatever you like.
> 
> I reiterate the fact that not 2 but 8 , yes 8 Amraams were fired, we had to fire some because at one point SAAB had a radarlock..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone with real links in PAF and not fake ones would know what Im talking about.


Not necessarily dismissing your claim, as others have also attested to this theory.

My question is - why couldn't the Indians locate more of the expended missiles if 8 were fired? Why wouldn't they locate non-detonated missiles and display those, as doing so would serve their interests better than displaying a clearly exploded missile that exploded upon destroying a Su-30?

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## M.SAAD

masterchief_mirza said:


> Not necessarily dismissing your claim, as others have also attested to this theory.
> 
> My question is - why couldn't the Indians locate more of the expended missiles if 8 were fired? Why wouldn't they locate non-detonated missiles and display those, as doing so would serve their interests better than displaying a clearly exploded missile that exploded upon destroying a Su-30?






Because they did not manage to land past the Indian side of the LOC, and even if one of them did they haven't been able to find it yet. They only managed to get hold of the one which hit the back of the Su30 and exploded.


There was complete radio silence in the air from our side, until SAAB observed the breach of our airspace from Indian side, and that was the moment when Indian jets were proving threatening to our biggest asset in the air, that was the moment F16s fired several AMRAAMS at once , AMRAAMS first controlled by SAAB and then later ones shifted to f16 for radar lock and hit..


Had we not done that, that day wouldn't have been Ours!

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## HRK

White and Green with M/S said:


> ask @HRK @Irfan Baloch @The Eagle @waz these guys have direct and indirect links to PAF


I do not have any link or source with PAF

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## Reichmarshal

Masla with us Pakistanis is that non of us wants to learn or admit our mistakes. irrespective of the fact how vague or far from the truth our info is which to start of with is mostly based on hear say....and the chain through which it reaches us is so long that by the time it gets to us it is beyond recognition.

But still we being we will stick to our guns till kingdom come.

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## graphican

M.SAAD said:


> Because they did not manage to land past the Indian side of the LOC, and even if one of them did they haven't been able to find it yet. They only managed to get hold of the one which hit the back of the Su30 and exploded.
> 
> 
> There was complete radio silence in the air from our side, until SAAB observed the breach of our airspace from Indian side, and that was the moment when Indian jets were proving threatening to our biggest asset in the air, that was the moment F16s fired several AMRAAMS at once , AMRAAMS first controlled by SAAB and then later ones shifted to f16 for radar lock and hit..
> 
> 
> Had we not done that, that day wouldn't have been Ours!



What you're saying makes sense. Our slow-flying air assets could've been a target. Why would Indians not lock on them when both sides were free to lock and shoot.

Can you clarify one thing. If MRAMS or any other A2A missile fails to find a target in time, don't they self destruct instead of landing safely? My understanding is regardless of how many MRAAMs were fired towards IAF, all would've explored; either on their target or after failing to find a target. What do you think?

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## Oracle

There will be no proof of su30 kill. Not in 2018, not now in 2020.... And there will not be any proof in next 20 years. 

F16 kill was confirmed as fake news. However giving medal to abhinandan was really wtf moment.

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## Irfan Baloch

HRK said:


> I do not have any link or source with PAF


I do have links but I prefer to keep the people guessing and shroud of mystery in the air so that we continue to give enemy the surprise.,


masterchief_mirza said:


> Not necessarily dismissing your claim, as others have also attested to this theory.
> 
> My question is - why couldn't the Indians locate more of the expended missiles if 8 were fired? Why wouldn't they locate non-detonated missiles and display those, as doing so would serve their interests better than displaying a clearly exploded missile that exploded upon destroying a Su-30?


why 8 ? why not 20? let the Indians believe and celebrate that we fired 20 AMRAAMS and have none left.
let them try again and when their jets will come flying down we can say, sorry we miscounted. it was actually 80 missiles we fired.

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## M.SAAD

graphican said:


> What you're saying makes sense. Our slow-flying air assets could've been a target. Why would Indians not lock on them when both sides were free to lock and shoot.
> 
> Can you clarify one thing. If MRAMS or any other A2A missile fails to find a target in time, don't they self destruct instead of landing safely? My understanding is regardless of how many MRAAMs were fired towards IAF, all would've explored; either on their target or after failing to find a target. What do you think?






AMRAAMs if don't get locked then they glide and fall dead intact but do not explode (with the exception that the Pilot himself has enabled the self-destruct mechanism, which is a different case).

But the piece that India showed was exploded, so this means it hit the target that's why it exploded..

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## White and Green with M/S

M.SAAD said:


> AMRAAMs if don't get locked then they glide and fall dead intact but do not explode (with the exception that the Pilot himself has enabled the self-destruct mechanism, which is a different case).
> 
> Conspiracy theorist you're
> 
> But the piece that India showed was exploded, so this means it hit the target that's why it exploded..





M.SAAD said:


> AMRAAMs if don't get locked then they glide and fall dead intact but do not explode (with the exception that the Pilot himself has enabled the self-destruct mechanism, which is a different case).
> 
> But the piece that India showed was exploded, so this means it hit the target that's why it exploded..


Conspiracy theorist

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## M.SAAD

White and Green with M/S said:


> Conspiracy theorist





Okay, I'm a conspiracy theorist.


If that helps you sleep.

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## White and Green with M/S

M.SAAD said:


> Okay, I'm a conspiracy theorist.
> 
> 
> If that helps you sleep.


 your assumptions is based on you personal opinions and thinking but not in real incident, that's why i m saying you conspiracy theorist


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## TheTallGuy

@M.SAAD 

What i know is the whole mission went classified upon landing..so what ever is officially known about the incident is neutered down version...and PAF will follow it.

It was such a case that every base held information seminar managed by base commanders who specifically explained the official version of events so everybody tow the official line. 

Now for me, i still cant believe that we only shot down 2 x aircraft. 

Food for thought..

At that time IAF had unusually high number of crashes aka accidents...my question is they have same situation with PLA why have they not crashed aircraft is same or more quantity. Are we suggesting IAF is not operating a full strength and full ability ....which i do not think so...

This cause more questions then answer...after 25 years we will know what really happened as of now...everything airtight classified.

As for AIM120C5 if 8 of them fired with at least 6 in Cooperative mode with SAAB, i can guarantee you that if PAF used this tactic...all 8 aircraft would have been shot down without IAF knowing what hit them...you have to understand there is total of 22 second window for the IAF CAP Standing (2 x Su-30MKI & 2 x Mirage 2000).

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## araz

masterchief_mirza said:


> Not necessarily dismissing your claim, as others have also attested to this theory.
> 
> My question is - why couldn't the Indians locate more of the expended missiles if 8 were fired? Why wouldn't they locate non-detonated missiles and display those, as doing so would serve their interests better than displaying a clearly exploded missile that exploded upon destroying a Su-30?


Because the one that they showed came out of the rear end of their plane. I would just love them to show more. I cannot say anything about the number of AMRAMS That were fired as I dont know.
A

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## White and Green with M/S

Dark1 said:


> India lost 1 mig21 due to debri ingestion or shooting down and Pakistan lost 1 f16 due to shooting down.
> These are the only 2 confirmed losses.
> Pakistan should reveal the name of the Pakistani pilot who was piloting the stricken f16. Its nearly 2 years now.


pentagon and Lockheed martin confirmed that no PAF F-16 lost on 27/2/2019, world buys our narratives not yours narratives on 26/2/2019 and 27/2/2019, you guys always living in your delusional world

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## Reichsmarschall

Dark1 said:


> These are the only 2 confirmed losses


Kahan se uth k atay ho tum log?
Itni dethai 🤡

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## Dark1

Reichsmarschall said:


> Kahan se uth k atay ho tum log?
> Itni dethai 🤡


Your professional has accepted in the previous page that some pakistani facts are for the public only...


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## Reichsmarschall

Dark1 said:


> Your professional has accepted in the previous page that some pakistani facts are for the public only...


So you guys still believe in Shahzaz-ud-Din story IAF gave you to hide their incompetency.

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## Wikki019

Dark1 said:


> Only missing link is what his highness dgispr Pakistani fauj , accepted about the second pilot. All recorded .
> Then "ghbrana nahi' also spoke of the 2nd pilot in parliament.


 yeah yeah you killed sheh jaj uddin, now happy?


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## White and Green with M/S

Dark1 said:


> Only missing link is what his highness dgispr Pakistani fauj , accepted about the second pilot. All recorded .
> Then "ghbrana nahi' also spoke of the 2nd pilot in parliament.


It by mistake he was receiving news from multiple source, and tell me where was wreck of our F-16, you have satellites to prove it????, where were his family and friends, it can't be hide from media??? don't be too retard

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## Windjammer

Indian Airforce desperate to hide it's humiliation went about making a complete clown of it's self by staging the circus called the Avenger formation.
Some one should ask these jokers, did they go into battle with just two SU-30s and three MK2s in it's inventory that they tried to showboat with this....nothing more than desperate attempt to cover their bloody nose.

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## Myth_buster_1

Dark1 said:


> India lost 1 mig21 due to debri ingestion or shooting down and Pakistan lost 1 f16 due to shooting down.
> These are the only 2 confirmed losses.
> Pakistan should reveal the name of the Pakistani pilot who was piloting the stricken f16. Its nearly 2 years now.



Looks like we have newly graduated brainwashed Indiot from RSS propaganda factory.

If IAF shot down PAF F-16 with mig-21 then it would have been the hottest topic in Russian defence community and Isreali because it uses their technology. Its only Indian propaganda factory that still believes in this absurd theory based on imaginary PS drawings and vapor trails. The dosra banda theory has already been busted millions of time that Mig-21 has two chutes, one for the pilot and one for ejection seat.

Where as its more likely to believe that Su-30 was shot down by PAF AMRAAM since IAF has scrambling for better missiles and fighter jets and its also more likely to believe that PAF shot down IAF Mi-17 since Spyder SAM system can identify air craft type by its name regardless of IFF system being turn off or not. India is just saving its face from embarrassment that it mistakenly shot down its own chopper and PAF does not claim that kill for de-escalation.

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## Irfan Baloch

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Looks like we have newly graduated brainwashed Indiot from RSS propaganda factory.
> 
> If IAF shot down PAF F-16 with mig-21 then it would have been the hottest topic in Russian defence community and Isreali because it uses their technology. Its only Indian propaganda factory that still believes in this absurd theory based on imaginary PS drawings and vapor trails. The dosra banda theory has already been busted millions of time that Mig-21 has two chutes, one for the pilot and one for ejection seat.
> 
> Where as its more likely to believe that Su-30 was shot down by PAF AMRAAM since IAF has scrambling for better missiles and fighter jets and its also more likely to believe that PAF shot down IAF Mi-17 since Spyder SAM system can identify air craft type by its name regardless of IFF system being turn off or not. India is just saving its face from embarrassment that it mistakenly shot down its own chopper and PAF does not claim that kill for de-escalation.


from F-16 naswar, to engine of Mig 21 to the parachutes Indians somersaulted as the ridicule increased and brought up the picture of downed F-16 which happened to be GE engine of some foreign air force in the west. again Indian got trashed in the live audience by Christine fair who rubbished their claim saying that PAF F-16s are equipped with P&W engines. she brutalized them over the photo shopped graphics and challenged them to explain why their PM is crying for rafales if their Mig 21 is such a premium killer.

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## Path-Finder

coming upto 2nd anniversary. still the topic remains hott!


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## Vortex

Path-Finder said:


> coming upto 2nd anniversary. still the topic remains hott!



until rafale pilotes received their medal for successfully dodging our missiles and parking the rafales in their parking insha’Allah

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## PradoTLC

nomi007 said:


> If Spice 2000 has a guided camera then why Endians are releasing a video of the Balakot air strike?




may they didnt buy with the upgrade package... ie with camera...

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## mingle

Vortex said:


> until rafale pilotes received their medal for successfully dodging our missiles and parking the rafales in their parking insha’Allah


I fear theior new love will face same fate like old love

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## Vortex

mingle said:


> I fear theior new love will face same fate like old love



Insha’Allah I pray for it everyday

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## ziaulislam

nomi007 said:


> If Spice 2000 has a guided camera then why Endians are releasing a video of the Balakot air strike?


Likely indians put wrong gps co ordinates and never bother to do terminal guidance(or were force to abort) everyone knows that it missed based upon vegetation and sat imgery


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## Myth_buster_1

PradoTLC said:


> may they didnt buy with the upgrade package... ie with camera...



According to Indiot Defenj (analists ) all Spice-2000 lost their video relay data up in the clouds. LOLj

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## PradoTLC

Myth_buster_1 said:


> According to Indiot Defenj (analists ) all Spice-2000 lost their video relay data up in the clouds. LOLj



so it wasnt cloud rated.....


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## Inception-06

Riddick said:


> ignore him he is an Indian


What ? Stop this childish suspects, who are you to rule who is Pakistani and not just because you have different opinion !


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## Riddick

yes you are right,i shouldnt do that but when you are opinion is exactly the same as enemy what else one should call you ? Indian or Traitor ?


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## Reichsmarschall

The wheel of time said:


> mate* i think you are expecting mig21s* and 27s from our side, but let me tel you our systems are far too superior than yours. *You will get mki*, mirage 2000 and mig29s instead.


Any idea where's this guy these days?

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## GumNaam

Reichsmarschall said:


> Any idea where's this guy these days?



he's too embarrassed to show his face cuz his "raptor of the east" mki was also shot down and his mirage2000s and mig29s were too afraid to fly out and play...

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## Reichsmarschall

The wheel of time said:


> Perhaps you have no idea of what a flanker is, it will swat f16s like flies. only a foll with a death wish will take a f16 to fight off a flanker


I'd pay anything to have a word with this idiot.


Redirect Notice




Reichsmarschall said:


> I'd pay anything to have a word with this idiot.
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice


@GumNaam i am lost at words. If only I had half the confidence of these Gangus.


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## GumNaam

Reichsmarschall said:


> I'd pay anything to have a word with this idiot.
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> @GumNaam i am lost at words. If only I had half the confidence of these Gangus.


confidence of these gangus reminds me of the saying "jab geedhar ki maut aati hay tab woh shehr ki taraf bhaag ta hay".

jab gangu ki maut aati hay tab woh Pakistan ki taraf bhaag ta hay!

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## Areesh

Armani said:


> *Media reports saying all IAF pilots accounted for.*
> 
> Guess Pak wanted to capture some civilian like Kulbushan Yadav and pass him off as IAF pilot


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## Reichsmarschall

Areesh said:


>


Wish we could see talk to these guys again.
Look at the sheer confidence of this absolute braindead moron, and the idiots who liked his filmsy claims.
@Chhatrapati This is the logorrhea I was insinuating to the other day.

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## Irfan Baloch

Novice09 said:


> Agony : Date and time of tweet...
> 
> View attachment 541923


your post was funny till 26th of February 2019

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## Areesh

Reichsmarschall said:


> Wish we could see talk to these guys again.
> Look at the sheer confidence of this absolute braindead moron, and the idiots who liked his filmsy claims.
> @Chhatrapati This is the logorrhea I was insinuating to the other day.
> View attachment 708449
> View attachment 708451



One clown is still active on forum


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## GumNaam

Areesh said:


> One clown is still active on forum


the clown doesn't realize that we are playing with our food before devouring it!

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## Salza

Some Iranian trolls like @Surenas were also having a field day on Feb 26 until Feb 27 shut them up completely from the thread till this date. Note that this guy didn't replied in the thread after PAF action

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## maverick1977

Salza said:


> Some Iranian trolls like @Surenas were also having a field day on Feb 26 until Feb 27 shut them up completely from the thread till this date. Note that this guy didn't replied in the thread after PAF action
> View attachment 708461
> 
> View attachment 708461




must be an indian troll guised as iranian.. how many lungis have left this forum, do we have a count ? 😆

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## GumNaam

maverick1977 said:


> must be an indian troll guised as iranian.. how many lungis have left this forum, do we have a count ? 😆


oddly enough, I don't recall that troll ever saying or posting anything in farsi.

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## Salza

maverick1977 said:


> must be an indian troll guised as iranian.. how many lungis have left this forum, do we have a count ? 😆



No he is Iranian. 
So at the end of the day who was laughing at whom got cleared as well

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## The Eagle

Is this a coincidence or what? You guys have been evaluating thread as well. I did go through till page 154 and left the rest of later reading. I marked all these posts for some reasons but now I saw you guys quoting one by one. 

Oh by the way, that supposedly Iranian is actually not an iranian. He used this opportunity to say but he was from Dutch land and didn't you guys notice him being so much in influence for Israeli military tactics or strategies.

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## Path-Finder

Salza said:


> Some Iranian trolls like @Surenas were also having a field day on Feb 26 until Feb 27 shut them up completely from the thread till this date. Note that this guy didn't replied in the thread after PAF action
> View attachment 708461
> 
> View attachment 708461


iranians were beating their chest like monkey kong. they were high on indian juice too. their military was making threats against Pakistan. what jokers!
------------------------------
almost at the second anniversary of this thread and its still going strong. indians are making new theories all the time BUT seldom do they look at their own debacle. so we should slap as hard as possible and the vedicks will claim nothing happened to em. next time hit even harder because they will say oh nothing happened to us.

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## Path-Finder

----------------------------------------
another thing I want to highlight is when Pakistan was carrying out Swift retort at the same time there was a massive attack in afghanistan on the former base called camp bastion. it was 40% destroyed by few gunmen who stormed it. it appears to have been a message delivered.

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## GumNaam

Path-Finder said:


> ----------------------------------------
> another thing I want to highlight is when Pakistan was carrying out Swift retort at the same time there was a massive attack in afghanistan on the former base called camp bastion. it was 40% destroyed by few gunmen who stormed it. it appears to have been a message delivered.


yeah, the message was "don't bother coming for your sanghi bitch-boy's rescue if want to keep the remaining 60% of the base".

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## Caprxl

Path-Finder said:


> ----------------------------------------
> another thing I want to highlight is when Pakistan was carrying out Swift retort at the same time there was a massive attack in afghanistan on the former base called camp bastion. it was 40% destroyed by few gunmen who stormed it. it appears to have been a message delivered.



Heard or read somewhere that the place was hosting some friends from east & west, the user & manufacturer of _Spice_ respectively, But as you have stated they were welcomed with a _Surprise _as well & took heavy loss in terms of men & machine.

If above scenario has some credibility, am curious to to know what sinister plans were being cooked apart from routine Terrorism in Pakistan by both the parties, must be something special & out of routine that they were taken out.

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## Path-Finder

Caprxl said:


> Heard or read somewhere that the place was hosting some friends from east & west, the user & manufacturer of _Spice_ respectively, But as you have stated they were welcomed with a _Surprise _as well & took heavy loss in terms of men & machine.
> 
> If above scenario has some credibility, am curious to to know what sinister plans were being cooked apart from routine Terrorism in Pakistan by both the parties, must be something special & out of routine that they were taken out.


If memory serves me right a lot of idols had fallen, the yanks who are always quarterbacking events and india is merely the front. because that tone the yanks toe in supporting indian narrative against Pakistan was shattered and till today it has been reduced down to a very low level which is now poignant. before that the amount of jingoistic verbal diarrhea from washington used to be on a replay and it was ghastly propaganda.

that event sent a message and who knows what was actually transpiring in that local and that party was gatecrashed by a few gunmen who would wreak havoc. if 40% of a base is demolished then that's good as rubble. remaining 60% has you exposed.

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## untitled

Blast from the past:









Why Pakistan Air Force Would Succumb To Indian Air Force in Just 8 Days


Pakistan Air Force (PAF) suffers from several shortcomings that tend to ensure that in a future round of all-out hostilities against the IAF, the PAF will succumb within a period of eight days. These include: 1) The unavailability of the required quantum of spares-support from the OEMs of the...



defence.pk

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## Cookie Monster

untitled said:


> Blast from the past:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Pakistan Air Force Would Succumb To Indian Air Force in Just 8 Days
> 
> 
> Pakistan Air Force (PAF) suffers from several shortcomings that tend to ensure that in a future round of all-out hostilities against the IAF, the PAF will succumb within a period of eight days. These include: 1) The unavailability of the required quantum of spares-support from the OEMs of the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


@Caprxl @Areesh @Path-Finder @GumNaam thanks for digging all this up guys 
...hilarious to read...it's like the jokes write themselves. I couldn't have guessed I'll find this much comedy on a defense forum. I really really wish some of these posters could come back and shamelessly defend their posts...still inventing more stories while at it.

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## Waiting

Caprxl said:


> Heard or read somewhere that the place was hosting some friends from east & west, the user & manufacturer of _Spice_ respectively, But as you have stated they were welcomed with a _Surprise _as well & took heavy loss in terms of men & machine.
> 
> If above scenario has some credibility, am curious to to know what sinister plans were being cooked apart from routine Terrorism in Pakistan by both the parties, must be something special & out of routine that they were taken out.


The Indians were in league with eastearn side.. actually it was planed to attack if Pakistan retaliate, and after attack the Israelites were ready to take few marked points, but they were destroyed so badly at the station they never encouraged full attack thereafter. But I think now they armed India to teeth and filled so called black holes, so be ready for another fantast tea in the very near future

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## Arsalan 345

They keep lying about f-16 but we must also arm ourselves to the teeth. We need new modern weapons specially new long range missiles. Their activities shows that they can repeat same thing again. They only want to bomb us but Don't want to face paf. This is their reality but we must stay alert. India under terrorist modi can do anything, can go to any limit. Heavy fighter jet is required. I believe with f-16s, we can destroy any airforce. Iaf is a group of amateur people. We are experts. Be aggressive.

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## Caprxl

Path-Finder said:


> If memory serves me right a lot of idols had fallen, the yanks who are always quarterbacking events and india is merely the front. because that tone the yanks toe in supporting indian narrative against Pakistan was shattered and till today it has been reduced down to a very low level which is now poignant. before that the amount of jingoistic verbal diarrhea from washington used to be on a replay and it was ghastly propaganda.
> 
> that event sent a message and who knows what was actually transpiring in that local and that party was gatecrashed by a few gunmen who would wreak havoc. if 40% of a base is demolished then that's good as rubble. remaining 60% has you exposed.



Rightly put.



Waiting said:


> The Indians were in league with eastearn side.. actually it was planed to attack if Pakistan retaliate, and after attack the Israelites were ready to take few marked points, but they were destroyed so badly at the station they never encouraged full attack thereafter. But I think now they armed India to teeth and filled so called black holes, so be ready for another fantast tea in the very near future



By the will of Almighty, if we stay humble & thankful to Him, result will be in our favour when the time comes.

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## Path-Finder

Cookie Monster said:


> @Caprxl @Areesh @Path-Finder @GumNaam thanks for digging all this up guys
> ...hilarious to read...it's like the jokes write themselves. I couldn't have guessed I'll find this much comedy on a defense forum. I really really wish some of these posters could come back and shamelessly defend their posts...still inventing more stories while at it.


goodness gracious me, this is comedy gold.  there used to be 2 members storm force and another dimwit cant remember its name who always used to come up with. we have so many number of this so many number of that. I wonder where they are now!

honestly its these internet experts that have killed their force.

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## Myth_buster_1

WOW no Indians in this thread


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## Thorough Pro

As they say, there is no limit to the delusional's stupid imaginantions



untitled said:


> Blast from the past:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Pakistan Air Force Would Succumb To Indian Air Force in Just 8 Days
> 
> 
> Pakistan Air Force (PAF) suffers from several shortcomings that tend to ensure that in a future round of all-out hostilities against the IAF, the PAF will succumb within a period of eight days. These include: 1) The unavailability of the required quantum of spares-support from the OEMs of the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk

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## Flankerhunter

A very well written piece








“An Avenger’s last fall”


A detailed account of Operation Swiftretort and evidence regarding the shootdown of Su30 (Avenger1) by PAF




ahsanawan1225.medium.com

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## Trailer23

Found this gem on *YouTube*. Just click 'Play'.

*Q.* So which IAF jet had a technical snag that it crashed Budgam? That's odd, isn't that where the Mi-17 was shot down too by their own Battery Operator... Makes you wonder (again), where the hell was that Mi-17 headed in the first place?

Note: He almost said '*Crashed*'.

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## Trailer23

A lil' something about the* !sraeli Spice 2000* that none of us knew, as claimed by a IAF retired Officer who actually flew the Mirage 2000.

*Air Marshal (Retd.) Anil Chopra
(Former Vice Chief of Air Staff)*

So, where are these pictures...?

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## Trailer23

Always fun watching these clips...

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## Zarvan

Trailer23 said:


> Always fun watching these clips...


Please make a video with just clips from Indian media after humiliation on 27th February. Don't show Pakistani forces just Indian media.

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## KaiserX

Feb 27 Casualties & dollar losses

Pakistan- 0 casualties 3 million? (Cost of jet fuel & 1 SD-10, 1 AMRAAM missile )

India- 2 fighter jets, 1 helicopter shot down. 10+ soldiers killed. 120+ M (Cost of 1 SU-30mki, 1 Mig-21 Bison upgrade, 1 French helicopter, and 10 dogs)

Guess who must be more resourceful with their defence budget? lmaooo

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## GriffinsRule

Trailer23 said:


> Always fun watching these clips...


Slowly but surely the F-16 being shot down by the super Mig-21 is being removed from their narrative. Guess Russian short ranged missiles don't fit into this new storyline which no doubt will line some pockets

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## masterchief_mirza

Trailer23 said:


> Found this gem on *YouTube*. Just click 'Play'.
> 
> *Q.* So which IAF jet had a technical snag that it crashed Budgam? That's odd, isn't that where the Mi-17 was shot down too by their own Battery Operator... Makes you wonder (again), where the hell was that Mi-17 headed in the first place?
> 
> Note: He almost said '*Crashed*'.


19:25 - 19:45 completely gives the game away.

The lying toerags lost a Flanker. No doubt about it. They simply cannot keep quiet for long enough when they know a juicy bit of intel. Duffers.

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## Nomad40

Trailer23 said:


> Found this gem on *YouTube*. Just click 'Play'.
> 
> *Q.* So which IAF jet had a technical snag that it crashed Budgam? That's odd, isn't that where the Mi-17 was shot down too by their own Battery Operator... Makes you wonder (again), where the hell was that Mi-17 headed in the first place?
> 
> Note: He almost said '*Crashed*'.


noix


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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> A lil' something about the* !sraeli Spice 2000* that none of us knew, as claimed by a IAF retired Officer who actually flew the Mirage 2000.
> 
> *Air Marshal (Retd.) Anil Chopra
> (Former Vice Chief of Air Staff)*
> 
> So, where are these pictures...?


time stamp?


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## Trailer23

Path-Finder said:


> time stamp?


As in you need not watch the entire clip, it's already been set at the exact time. Just click 'Play' .

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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> As in you need not watch the entire clip, it's already been set at the exact time. Just click 'Play' .


I just stopped at 21 minutes in Pakistani airspace! why not claim 21hrs? what morons. but yes he said that spice bumb has transmission capability. another heat of the moment own goals.


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## ProudPak

Trailer23 said:


> A lil' something about the* !sraeli Spice 2000* that none of us knew, as claimed by a IAF retired Officer who actually flew the Mirage 2000.
> 
> *Air Marshal (Retd.) Anil Chopra
> (Former Vice Chief of Air Staff)*
> 
> So, where are these pictures...?


Couldnt make this stuff up. 

Is there any shame in india


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## Path-Finder



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## Myth_buster_1

Now is the perfect time to release Su-30, and Mi-17 kill information if Pakistan wants BJP to bring it down to its knees for lying to its public.
We know that Su-30 was shot down but concrete evidence needs to be provided for the world to see.

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## Goenitz

Ghost Hobbit said:


> Add Kashmir to pak losses....you were counting fighter jets, Modi just scrapped 370 and ended the issue for good.


Nothing is settled until there is a political solution. Arresting local politicians, banning communication, etc means it is not settled and Punjab and Haryana also seems agitated. So at least BJP is losing politically.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Ghost Hobbit said:


> Add Kashmir to pak losses....you were counting fighter jets, Modi just scrapped 370 and ended the issue for good.






Pakistan gas domain over 35% of Kashmir. india occupies 45% and China autonomously rules 20% of Kashmir. Excellent going by Pakistan considering that india is more than 7× bigger than Pakistan and has the full backing of the West and Russia............ .........don't know why you think india has taken Azad Kashmir. Is indian FAKE NEWS really that bad?.........

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Ghost Hobbit said:


> Then according to you also Kashmir is settled. Good. I'm ok to freeze it at Status Quo.






Can't be settled if you think india controls all of Kashmir as per your initial claims. Or is that what the biggest FAKE NEWS factory in the world has been telling you and your ilk?.......


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## Myth_buster_1

Ghost Hobbit said:


> Add Kashmir to pak losses....you were counting fighter jets, Modi just scrapped 370 and ended the issue for good.



This is not a military achievement. India could have done this at any time and they played its cards at the right time to save BJP image which was badly damaged after failed Balakot strike and Su-30 Mig-21 and Mi-17 shot down.


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## KaiserX

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Can't be settled if you think india controls all of Kashmir as per your initial claims. Or is that what the biggest FAKE NEWS factory in the world has been telling you and your ilk?.......



The indian dogs are getting butchered x10 fold in kashmir since 2019. In the west (LOC) the PA is sniping the dogs on a daily basis, in the north (LAC) the PLA are beating to death these dogs with their bare hands, in the cities, the kashmiri people are pelting the dogs x100 fold.

They have focused so much on kashmir that punjab and now delhi is out of control.


Ghost Hobbit said:


> Ask the farmers what they think about Pakistan...most of them will declare that immedeate dismemberment of the state would be a welcome idea . You know it's true. They oppose a law on one side, but hate your entire state on the other



These farmers dont care much about Pakistan to hate it... for them their eyes are on dismembering Modi/BJP 

Look what they have to say about your hindu women  youve focused on Pakistan so much that youve forgotten your women

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## GumNaam

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Now is the perfect time to release Su-30, and Mi-17 kill information if Pakistan wants BJP to bring it down to its knees for lying to its public.
> We know that Su-30 was shot down but concrete evidence is provided for the world to see.





Ghost Hobbit said:


> Add Kashmir to pak losses....you were counting fighter jets, Modi just scrapped 370 and ended the issue for good.



I can understand the low iq sanghis like you suffer from so here, lemme dumb it down for you in the simplest bollywood terms on what has actually happened:
*pre article 370 scrap:*
Pakistan sends ONE inflator. 
india screams about terrorism like little bitch getting raped in the wrong hole. 
world says "oh Pakistan, why you do like that to shining india, bad so bad".

*post article 370 scrap:*
Pakistan sends ONE HUNDRED infiltrators. 
india once again screams about terrorism like little bitch getting raped in the wrong hole. 
world says "oh shut the fck up india & tell us why you do human rights violations & racism with fascism, bad so bad".

see how your shit has backfired on your own faces?  your article 370 never meant anything to us, we just use it as an excuse to highlight india's gross human rights violations WHILE (as per the admissions of your government) WE increase infiltration 100 folds where the infiltrators hunt down your indian soldiers like dogs. as per your own gov sources, these infiltrators are hardened fighters that foughtin afghanistan against the u.s./allied forces, you think your malnutritioned army stands a chance? 

I've said it before, I'll say it again, your modi is our stooge while he doesn't even realize it. watch carefully & learn bitvaa, is ko kehtay hain...INTELLIGENCE!

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## Indus Pakistan

Ghost Hobbit said:


> Then according to you also Kashmir is settled. Good. I'm ok to freeze it at Status Quo.


When a leopard takes a bite off a elephant it naturally wants more. We gonna get rest of it.

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## Zarvan



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## arjunk

You can see the moment he surrendered as narrated here:







Zarvan said:


>

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## air marshal

Windjammer said:


> Indian Airforce desperate to hide it's humiliation went about making a complete clown of it's self by staging the circus called the Avenger formation.
> Some one should ask these jokers, did they go into battle with just two SU-30s and three MK2s in it's inventory that they tried to showboat with this....nothing more than desperate attempt to cover their bloody nose.
> 
> View attachment 702963


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## Rahil khan

Ghost Hobbit said:


> Then according to you also Kashmir is settled. Good. I'm ok to freeze it at Status Quo.



Good, since you are okay to freeze Status Quo, so just remain chill with CPEC project becoz it's passing from Azad Kashmir ?? I hope your "Wadday" at New Dehli will also digest this idea below their stomach.


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## Trailer23

This video is interesting...

It was recorded early morning on the 27th of Feb, around the time our boys were gearing up to pay them a visit. Whilst sitting in their studios, they had no clue *what was coming...*

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## Nomad40

Trailer23 said:


> This video is interesting...
> 
> It was recorded early morning on the 27th of Feb, around the time our boys were gearing up to pay them a visit. Whilst sitting in their studios, they had no clue *what was coming...*


I can imagen, The Mirage boss preflighting going over parameters mentally.

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## ARMalik

Please *DO NOT* underestimate the Indians !! The situation we are in is frankly PAF's own creation! On Feb 27, *PAF had the opportunity to sink IAF for at least a decade by shooting down ALL the 12-jets which were on their lock*. But they decided *NOT *to do it. *PAF has given indians TIME TO REDEME THEMSELVES !!* A huge mistake by PAF I have to say !!
Just imagine if PAF would have shot down MKIs, Mirage-2000s, Migs, etc. It would have psychological and technically devastated the IAF !! But PAF leadership CHOOSE THE EASY path. *Youtube videos *self-praising and blabbering on like this, are NOT going to change the ground realities.

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## arjunk

ARMalik said:


> Please *DO NOT* underestimate the Indians !! The situation we are in is frankly PAF's own creation! On Feb 27, *PAF had the opportunity to sink IAF for at least a decade by shooting down ALL the 12-jets which were on their lock*. But they decided *NOT *to do it. *PAF has given indians TIME TO REDEME THEMSELVES !!* A huge mistake by PAF I have to say !!
> Just imagine if PAF would have shot down MKIs, Mirage-2000s, Migs, etc. It would have psychological and technically devastated the IAF !! But PAF leadership CHOOSE THE EASY path. *Youtube videos *self-praising and blabbering on like this, are NOT going to change the ground realities.


Shooting down 12 aircraft would invite an Indian invasion which the Pak army at the time could not handle (and I doubt today's Pak army can handle it for very long either). Hell, even with 2 aircracft down, the army began preparing for an all out war.

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## ARMalik

arjunk said:


> Shooting down 12 aircraft would invite an Indian invasion which the Pak army at the time could not handle (and I doubt today's Pak army can handle it for very long either). Hell, even with 2 aircracft down, the army began preparing for an all out war.



Not possible due to two main reasons:

1- *Loss of Indian Air Superiority. *Shooting down 12-planes would have meant a lot of confusion and disorganization within IAF, giving CLEAR ADVANTAGE TO PAF. PAF would have decimated Indian Army and navy. 
2- Nukes specially tactical nukes.

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## ghazi52



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## Salza

first news of Pakistani strikes/shooting down of Indian planes at dunya news ....watch from 4.20 onwards

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## Vapour

One other lesson from the 2nd Indian farcical strike is to implement induction of long range early warning radars to detect Indian fighter jets deep in their territory. I know that India has the upper hand in terms of indigenous development of surveilance capabilities as well as foreign procured equipment, however, it is Pakistan that sorely needs a significant expansion of military spy satellites, LR EWRs and other such capabilities to act as force multipliers in terms of surveillance as well as an additional safeguard for the country and all assets on ground.

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=182820840307514

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## baqai

Trailer23 said:


> This video is interesting...
> 
> It was recorded early morning on the 27th of Feb, around the time our boys were gearing up to pay them a visit. Whilst sitting in their studios, they had no clue *what was coming...*



the level of arrogance and cockiness they have gosh! good for us!


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## Trailer23

I gotta confess. I have somewhat of a guilty pleasure, where I often visit a certain Indian Defense-related Forum.

Its so much fun. Relating to 26th/27th, they only remember/discuss 02 things.

*1.* Dosra Pilot
*2.* Shooting down a F-16 which basically covers Point *1*.

There is ZER0 talk about us catching them asleep in broad-daylight. No talk about our H-4 footage. Nothing about them shooting down their own Mi-17. Nothing about their 2 Mirages having Radar issues at the same time.

Oh, just so that you all know, they can flatten out the PAF in less than 2 Days with the help of the Navy (MiG-29's) taking on PAF Base Masroor.

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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> I gotta confess. I have somewhat of a guilty pleasure, where I often visit a certain Indian Defense-related Forum.
> 
> Its so much fun. Relating to 26th/27th, they only remember/discuss 02 things.
> 
> *1.* Dosra Pilot
> *2.* Shooting down a F-16 which basically covers Point *1*.
> 
> There is ZER0 talk about us catching them asleep in broad-daylight. No talk about our H-4 footage. Nothing about them shooting down their own Mi-17. Nothing about their 2 Mirages having Radar issues at the same time.
> 
> Oh, just so that you all know, they can flatten out the PAF in less than 2 Days with the help of the Navy (MiG-29's) taking on PAF Base Masroor.


that is how being sly works pulling wool over the eyes of people. but it didn't work.

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## The Eagle

Trailer23 said:


> I gotta confess. I have somewhat of a guilty pleasure, where I often visit a certain Indian Defense-related Forum.
> 
> Its so much fun. Relating to 26th/27th, they only remember/discuss 02 things.
> 
> *1.* Dosra Pilot
> *2.* Shooting down a F-16 which basically covers Point *1*.
> 
> There is ZER0 talk about us catching them asleep in broad-daylight. No talk about our H-4 footage. Nothing about them shooting down their own Mi-17. Nothing about their 2 Mirages having Radar issues at the same time.
> 
> Oh, just so that you all know, they can flatten out the PAF in less than 2 Days with the help of the Navy (MiG-29's) taking on PAF Base Masroor.



That will help us a lot. I still hope that India continues with the same thoughts & interests. Their acknowledgment otherwise, is more a threat rising for us.

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## arjunk

Trailer23 said:


> I gotta confess. I have somewhat of a guilty pleasure, where I often visit a certain Indian Defense-related Forum.
> 
> Its so much fun. Relating to 26th/27th, they only remember/discuss 02 things.
> 
> *1.* Dosra Pilot
> *2.* Shooting down a F-16 which basically covers Point *1*.
> 
> There is ZER0 talk about us catching them asleep in broad-daylight. No talk about our H-4 footage. Nothing about them shooting down their own Mi-17. Nothing about their 2 Mirages having Radar issues at the same time.
> 
> Oh, just so that you all know, they can flatten out the PAF in less than 2 Days with the help of the Navy (MiG-29's) taking on PAF Base Masroor.



When asked how they will handle a two front war, their response is that they will nuke Pakistan and then capture Tibet and Aksai Chin from China.

I guess their military performs better with a ghauri up their ***.


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## PanzerKiel

The Eagle said:


> That will help us a lot. I still hope that India continues with the same thoughts & interests. Their acknowledgment otherwise, is more a threat rising for us.


The most interesting point is, the one which they also just say but not discuss, is that how PAF managed to amass MORE THAN 24 planes (Indians say 24, i say there were more than that), despite a complete lack of airfields around the battle area....planes even from Shahbaz also participated in it....meaning from all over the country....Mirages from one place, 52s from another place, Aggressors from somewhere else, Blinders from Mars, Saabs from Gwadar, JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB in Peshawar.....

....it must sound fishy for everyone....first the concentration of all these aircraft at our large new shiny PAF Base at Azad Pattan in AK went unnoticed.....then these planes refueled...still undetected....and then these separate packages went in the air...still unnoticed.....its not just a failure of Indian AWACS.....its a failure of multiple dimensions ..... ELINT, HUMINT, SATINT.....

...so in pure military sense, concentrating such a large force of different types of aircraft at one place, one day is no small feat....imagine you seeing all these types in air at a given point of time.....its either happens on 23 March parade, or in war.....Indian Air Int should have detected this concentration / aufsmarsch but failed....for some it was a big air op....but kudos to our planners....for us it was a nothing more than a parade....

...27 Feb was not just an air victory for us....it was a victory for our Intelligence, counter intelligence and OTHERS as well...

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## PanzerKiel

PanzerKiel said:


> The most interesting point is, the one which they also just say but not discuss, is that how PAF managed to amass MORE THAN 24 planes (Indians say 24, i say there were more than that), despite a complete lack of airfields around the battle area....planes even from Shahbaz also participated in it....meaning from all over the country....Mirages from one place, 52s from another place, Aggressors from somewhere else, Blinders from Mars, Saabs from Gwadar, JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB in Peshawar.....
> 
> ....it must sound fishy for everyone....first the concentration of all these aircraft at our large new shiny PAF Base at Azad Pattan in AK went unnoticed.....then these planes refueled...still undetected....and then these separate packages went in the air...still unnoticed.....its not just a failure of Indian AWACS.....its a failure of multiple dimensions.....ELINT, HUMINT, SATINT.....
> 
> ...so in pure military sense, concentrating such a large force of different types of aircraft at one place, one day is no small feat....imagine you seeing all these types in air at a given point of time.....its either happens on 23 March parade, or in war.....Indian Air Int should have detected this concentration / aufsmarsch but failed....for some it was a big air op....but kudos to our planners....for us it was a nothing more than a parade....
> 
> ...27 Feb was not just an air victory for us....it was a victory for our Intelligence, counter intelligence and OTHERS as well...


Moreover, to add on, interestingly, on PAF side, AVM Muhammad Qaisar Janjua ,GDP, heads PAF's Air Int branch, and AVM Muhammad Nadeem Sabir, again GDP, heads C4I branch of PAF, as separate independent sections......however, i couldnt find any AM or AVM from IAF heading their Air Int.....they must be having it in their commands or other HQs.....but it does show the importance which the PAF gives to matters related to Air int and C4I.

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## The Eagle

PanzerKiel said:


> Blinders from Mars





PanzerKiel said:


> JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB





PanzerKiel said:


> PAF Base at Azad Pattan



Indians are hereby invited to add these in their next article.



PanzerKiel said:


> The most interesting point is, the one which they also just say but not discuss, is that how PAF managed to amass MORE THAN 24 planes (Indians say 24, i say there were more than that), despite a complete lack of airfields around the battle area....planes even from Shahbaz also participated in it....meaning from all over the country....Mirages from one place, 52s from another place, Aggressors from somewhere else, Blinders from Mars, Saabs from Gwadar, JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB in Peshawar.....
> 
> ....it must sound fishy for everyone....first the concentration of all these aircraft at our large new shiny PAF Base at Azad Pattan in AK went unnoticed.....then these planes refueled...still undetected....and these the separate packages went in the air...still unnoticed.....its not just a failure of Indian AWACS.....its a failure of multiple dimensions.....ELINT, HUMINT, SATINT.....
> 
> ...so in pure military sense, concentrating such a large force of different types of aircraft at one place, one day is no small feat....imagine you seeing all these types in air at a given point of time.....its either happens on 23 March parade, or in war.....Indian Air Int should should have detected this concentration / aufsmarsch but failed....for some it was a big air op....but kudos to our planners....for us it was a nothing more than a parade....
> 
> ...27 Feb was not just an air victory for us....it was a victory for our Intelligence, counter intelligence and OTHERS as well...



In my view, they resort to propagate and accepted their own incompetence by way of crying. Their network was spammed, they said that their most assets were grounded while even their analysts were discussing IAF readiness at 4:00 am. Isn't that a shame if a military says that they were grounded and refueling and taken by surprise. All in all, their was total lack of professionalism or even moral to say the least given their responses on media and twisting things merely to divert public humiliation. No doubt, PAF just did one trick on that day and hundreds remains in book. IAF preparedness onward and defence investment tells a lot that how decades of verbal propaganda & bravado was shot down on that day. It is harsh as much as hugging own death for them now to accept the total failure at Indian Military end. 

However, the world saw what Pakistan did in Operation Swift Retort and no one ever said that PAF or PA or PN gave everything to Indian Armed Forces to be prepared. They had one lesson but on other hand, I am sure, PAF learnt more than the IAF as well. Pakistan validated many of operational tactics, verified many of parameters & practically done lot of Operational Capability Validation. I still remember the day when PAF officials were interviewed and it was said that when done; everyone was back to routine & planning & drills & usual learning or drawing board. The way it appears, it was like as you said.... a well planned application of tactics and yet another parade.

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## PanzerKiel

The Eagle said:


> Indians are hereby invited to add these in their next article.
> 
> 
> 
> In my view, they resort to propagate and accepted their own incompetence by way of crying. Their network was spammed, they said that their most assets were grounded while even their analysts were discussing IAF readiness at 4:00 am. Isn't that a shame if a military says that they were grounded and refueling and taken by surprise. All in all, their was total lack of professionalism or even moral to say the least given their responses on media and twisting things merely to divert public humiliation. No doubt, PAF just did one trick on that day and hundreds remains in book. IAF preparedness onward and defence investment tells a lot that how decades of verbal propaganda & bravado was shot down on that day. It is harsh as much as hugging own death for them now to accept the total failure at Indian Military end.
> 
> However, the world saw what Pakistan did in Operation Swift Retort and no one ever said that PAF or PA or PN gave everything to Indian Armed Forces to be prepared. They had one lesson but on other hand, I am sure, PAF learnt more than the IAF as well. Pakistan validated many of operational tactics, verified many of parameters & practically done lot of Operational Capability Validation. I still remember the day when PAF officials were interviewed and it was said that when done; everyone was back to routine & planning & drills & usual learning or drawing board. The way it appears, it was like as you said.... a well planned application of tactics and yet another parade.


For me, if we want to find the losses to Indian in terms of money....then it isnt just the price of 1 MIG21 or 1 Su30....the after effects need to be added as well....like Rafale deal, updgradation progm of Su30, Mig29s, blah blah...these all happened due to 27 Feb....this exactly is the real cost Indian had to bear post 27 Feb...and it really runs in to God knows how many billion of dollars...

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## RoshiniVenegal

PanzerKiel said:


> For me, if we want to find the losses to Indian in terms of money....then it isnt just the price of 1 MIG21 or 1 Su30....the after effects need to be added as well....like Rafale deal, updgradation progm of Su30, Mig29s, blah blah...these all happened due to 27 Feb....this exactly is the real cost Indian had to bear post 27 Feb...and it really runs in to God knows how many billion of dollars...


But this will help Indian military for the future big events hopefully. India military is not proactive, the China episode and Feb 27th will atleast make them prepare little better.

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## HostileInsurgent

PanzerKiel said:


> For me, if we want to find the losses to Indian in terms of money....then it isnt just the price of 1 MIG21 or 1 Su30....the after effects need to be added as well....like Rafale deal, updgradation progm of Su30, Mig29s, blah blah...these all happened due to 27 Feb....this exactly is the real cost Indian had to bear post 27 Feb...and it really runs in to God knows how many billion of dollars...


Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.

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## PanzerKiel

RoshiniVenegal said:


> But this will help Indian military for the future big events hopefully. India military is not proactive, the China episode and Feb 27th will atleast make them prepare little better.


Yes, you are right...thats a logical sequence.....but Indian military needs to be by default proactive...it shouldnt be in the need of such big events or blunders to remind it of its passiveness.

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## Sheikh Rauf

10 dino mein 2 saal hovay jatay hain or 27 Feb 2019 yeh bharat kay mu per aisay tamachay raseed kiyay hain hum nay kay sadiyan duhraingi is ko jab bhi india yaan indiono nay nazrain uthanay ki kooshish keen to.


HostileInsurgent said:


> Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.


Jhoot kay paon nahi hotay or tum indian jhoot bolnay say baaz nahi aatay.. 
tumhara abhi non done chai pakanay aya tha pak mes mein or modi ki patloon geeli ho gaye thi.. kuch aesi hi story ka bataya ho ga tumharay media nay.

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## The Eagle

HostileInsurgent said:


> Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.



Giving you plenty of time to troll Indians with the same imaginary F-16 Kill. By the way, did you try to pay a bit of attention that why IAF MI-17V5 was shot? Don't you think that the same was seen as hostile object? What if that is the kill that Indians were so convinced for shooting down of an alleged F-16. The argument is long past the Indian claims as nothing found in this regard by any international observatory. However, it was IAF that paraded an exploded AIM-120C5 of PAF to divert attention but gave themselves up big time. They actually revealed as to why there was an additional kill to MiG-21 and how could they found it exploded and recovered. Think about while you have plenty of time now. Off you go.

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## PanzerKiel

HostileInsurgent said:


> Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.


Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...

....and i would love to be the one to share it here.....

Her cheez ka aik waqt hota hai...we are just waiting for the right time....like we did on 27 Feb...timing matters you know.

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## The Eagle

Sheikh Rauf said:


> 10 dino mein 2 saal hovay jatay hain or 27 Feb 2019 yeh bharat kay mu per aisay tamachay raseed kiyay hain hum nay kay sadiyan duhraingi is ko jab bhi india yaan indiono nay nazrain uthanay ki kooshish keen to.
> 
> Jhoot kay paon nahi hotay or tum indian jhoot bolnay say baaz nahi aatay..
> tumhara abhi non done chai pakanay aya tha pak mes mein or modi ki patloon geeli ho gaye thi.. kuch aesi hi story ka bataya ho ga tumharay media nay.



India claimed to shoot down an F-16 by MiG-21.
_le F-16 operators world wide: _Kese kar lete hu bhai.

Abhinandan himself clearly said that he was looking for a target but he was struck with an AMRAAM by PAF. The man never spoke again.... not a single claim for shooting down the F-16 even when he make it back to India. Not till date.... only, online warriors & internet Air Marshalls been convinced to soothe the pain. This argument is dead in history with a title of "Indian Jokes" as usual.

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## arjunk

PanzerKiel said:


> Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...


I think you said a bit _too_ much for an internet troll... Poor guy's already banned.

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## RoshiniVenegal

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes, you are right...thats a logical sequence.....but Indian military needs to be by default proactive...it shouldnt be in the need of such big events or blunders to remind it of its passiveness.


Indian military is always been passive, look at the procurement policy. Takes 10, 15 years minimum to finalise any major procurement. Hopefully things are improving, lot of indigenous things coming up.


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## The Eagle

PanzerKiel said:


> Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...
> 
> ....and i would love to be the one to share it here.....
> 
> Her cheez ka aik waqt hota hai...we are just waiting for the right time....like we did on 27 Feb...timing matters you know.



They are still convinced that Pakistan doesn't have evidence, given their habit of show me everything so I will believe, and till it has been released they are gaining enough time to avoid public anger which seems to be impossible or expecting anything from RSS brigade. I am sure, evidence & proofs as such are held back so that the emotions be calmed and Indian Armed Forces wouldn't be pushed hard for a suicide attempt given the embarrassment for losing an MKI. This is the same reason, in my opinion, that Pakistan wanted to deescalate things on different mediums by different parameters through different strategies. Had it been released earlier; there would have been a emotional breakdown & even possibly a massacre by RSS or otherwise, the extremist leadership would have been forced to play foul openly. In such, an assured destruction for the both sides, was just on the way so that Pakistan didn't release much but kept for later purpose. Apparently, the day is not far as much as I see.

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## PanzerKiel

The Eagle said:


> India claimed to shoot down an F-16 by MiG-21.
> _le F-16 operatorsi: _Kese kar lete hu bhai.
> 
> Abhinandan himself clearly said that he was looking for a target but he was struck with an AMRAAM by PAF. The man never spoke again.... not a single claim for shooting down the F-16 even when he make it back to India. Not till date.... only, online warriors & internet Air Marshalls been convinced to soothe the pain. This argument is dead in history with a title of "Indian Jokes" as usual.


Personally, i take WC Abhinandan as a real gentleman (till now)...he ofcourse knows exactly what happened, i bet he must have been approached by different quarters to just appear on media and say that he shot down an F-16....and if he had done this, this would have given a new life to indian propaganda.....but see, he hasnt spoken a word about it...generally a nation parades its heroes in front of everyone, like we did (PAF), but the real hero for the Indians in this case was supposed to be WC Abhinandan, and then surprisingly, only hes the one who hasnt spoken yet.....strange as usual....


RoshiniVenegal said:


> Indian military is always been passive, look at the procurement policy. Takes 10, 15 years minimum to finalise any major procurement. Hopefully things are improving, lot of indigenous things coming up.


You are right dear, Indian military procurement policy surprises me as well.....i dont know whats the delay in procuring something once it is selected and the money is there as well...

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## The Eagle

PanzerKiel said:


> Personally, i take WC Abhinandan as a real gentleman (till now)...he ofcourse knows exactly what happened, i bet he must have been approached by different quarters to just appear on media and say that he shot down an F-16....and if he had done this, this would have given a new life to indian propaganda.....but see, he hasnt spoken a word about it...generally a nation parades its heroes in front of everyone, like we did (PAF), but the real hero for the Indians in this case was supposed to be WC Abhinandan, and then surprisingly, only hes the one who hasnt spoken yet.....strange as usual....



Exactly. There is no other argument than that given Indian history to beat the drums with lies & that bollywood style propaganda for 24/7. Had it been the case; it would have been impossible for us to sleep. On the contrary, I agree, Abhinandan proven to be a fine officer as of yet. That reminds me the words of the then DG ISPR that Abhinandan is a professional & good officer. At-least in his case, RSS Nazis haven't forced him to be proven as yet another liar.

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## Sheikh Rauf

The Eagle said:


> India claimed to shoot down an F-16 by MiG-21.
> _le F-16 operators world wide: _Kese kar lete hu bhai.
> 
> Abhinandan himself clearly said that he was looking for a target but he was struck with an AMRAAM by PAF. The man never spoke again.... not a single claim for shooting down the F-16 even when he make it back to India. Not till date.... only, online warriors & internet Air Marshalls been convinced to soothe the pain. This argument is dead in history with a title of "Indian Jokes" as usual.


Bro these shamless indian skunks(bhakats) dont care if they lose or insulted as long as it looks good hahaha i know it doesnt make sense but this is what we call india. 
Imagin abhinandone was promoted after all this if it was anyother nation they cud have remove all those who are running airforce and resoponsible for all this crap but again its india.


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## RoshiniVenegal

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Bro these shamless indian skunks(bhakats) dont care if they lose or insulted as long as it looks good hahaha i know it doesnt make sense but this is what we call india.
> Imagin abhinandone was promoted after all this if it was anyother nation they cud have remove all those who are running airforce and resoponsible for all this crap but again its india.


Not all, atleast airchief should have been sacked. Airforce overlooked the fact that Pakistan had longer range BVR. Every Indian airforce enthusiast was expecting India to have longer ranged BVR missile which already exists in Russian inventory. Anyway a huge lesson for Indian airforce with minimal damage.

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## The Eagle

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Bro these shamless indian skunks(bhakats) dont care if they lose or insulted as long as it looks good hahaha i know it doesnt make sense but this is what we call india.
> Imagin abhinandone was promoted after all this if it was anyother nation they cud have remove all those who are running airforce and resoponsible for all this crap but again its india.



I must say that IAF is the only Air Force in professional world that awarded gallantry badges for the pilots running from battle and called them AMRAAM Dodgers. Just look at the level as for them, dodging an AMRAAM and sitting back quietly in their pits is yet another victory. None of them came to scene despite being beaten on that day.... Everyone out there, was expecting IAF respond or an attempt to even score and what happened? Nothing...... nada... except that they sit in silence and started to recover AMRAAM pieces to say that Pakistan used F-16 against India. We are dealing with a crying foul adversary that thinks that Pakistan shouldn't use so & so assets. I really hoped back then if there was one to slap them hard and tell them to make a stand instead of crying like a spoiled child.

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## RoshiniVenegal

The Eagle said:


> I must say that IAF is the only Air Force in professional world that awarded gallantry badges for the pilots running from battle and called them AMRAAM Dodgers. Just look at the level as for them, dodging an AMRAAM and sitting back quietly in their pits is yet another victory. None of them came to scene despite being beaten on that day.... Everyone out there, was expecting IAF respond or an attempt to even score and what happened? Nothing...... nada... except that they sit in silence and started to recover AMRAAM pieces to say that Pakistan used F-16 against India. We are dealing with a crying foul adversary that thinks that Pakistan shouldn't use so & so assets. I really hoped back then if there was one to slap them hard and tell them to make a stand instead of crying like a spoiled child.


It is not about airforce, but about political leadership. War was never on cards. By publicly stating we don't want escalation, India foolishly conveyed that we are not ready. Neither countries were ready for war. 
Indians were not crying Pakistan should not use Amraam, but merely debunking the statement that F16s were not used.

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## Areesh

The Eagle said:


> Exactly. There is no other argument than that given Indian history to beat the drums with lies & that bollywood style propaganda for 24/7. Had it been the case; it would have been impossible for us to sleep. On the contrary, I agree, Abhinandan proven to be a fine officer as of yet. That reminds me the words of the then DG ISPR that Abhinandan is a professional & good officer. At-least in his case, RSS Nazis haven't forced him to be proven as yet another liar.



Abhinandan has proven to be a professional soldier

He could have went with the flow and made false claims of shooting down a F16 like his airchief and become a hero their. But he didn't

That itself shows a lot of character in that guy. I respect him for that. Acting professional when you have bosses like Modi and BS Dhanoa is not easy. We also should stop mocking him. He doesn't deserved to be mocked.

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## The Eagle

RoshiniVenegal said:


> It is not about airforce, but about political leadership. War was never on cards. By publicly stating we don't want escalation, India foolishly conveyed that we are not ready. Neither countries were ready for war.
> Indians were not crying Pakistan should not use Amraam, but merely debunking the statement that *F16s were not used.*



Indeed, F-16s sere not used in offensive posture at all and eventually, India proved it by showing AMRAAM which was a defensive shot given the IAF threat. Had it been like F-16 undertaking ground strike, such statement would have made sense but again; Pakistan is free to use F-16s as we saw no such US concerns providing bit of a shoulder for mourning IAF.

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## RoshiniVenegal

The Eagle said:


> Indeed, F-16s sere not used in offensive posture at all and eventually, India proved it by showing AMRAAM which was a defensive shot given the IAF threat. Had it been like F-16 undertaking ground strike, such statement would have made sense but again; Pakistan is free to use F-16s as we saw no such US concerns providing bit of a shoulder for mourning IAF.


It's not about what posture, Pakistan initially told that F 16 was not used. Of course every country has the right to use whatever weopans they have. India knows that very well, when your most potent aircraft was F16 what else is it for.

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## The Eagle

RoshiniVenegal said:


> It's not about what posture, Pakistan initially told that F 16 was not used. Of course every country has the right to use whatever weopans they have. India knows that very well, when your most potent aircraft was F16 what else is it for.



Seems like you didn't get me. I am saying the same thing. Why do you think that India was merely trying to rebut such a claim. Contrary to that, India was actually complaining to US that look....... Pakistan used F-16s under the influence of a so-called US-Pakistan agreement about the use of F-16s. I think you don't know about the matter in depth as such. You are merely referring to ISPR statement which in light of that alleged agreement, is correct and proven right.

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## AMRAAM

RoshiniVenegal said:


> It's not about what posture, Pakistan initially told that F 16 was not used. Of course every country has the right to use whatever weopans they have. India knows that very well, when your most potent aircraft was F16 what else is it for.



Again, the same argument. F-16s were not used in the actual bombing mission. Jeffs and Mirages did the job.

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## KhanBaba2

PanzerKiel said:


> Personally, i take WC Abhinandan as a real gentleman (till now)...he ofcourse knows exactly what happened, i bet he must have been approached by different quarters to just appear on media and say that he shot down an F-16....and if he had done this, this would have given a new life to indian propaganda.....but see, he hasnt spoken a word about it...generally a nation parades its heroes in front of everyone, like we did (PAF), but the real hero for the Indians in this case was supposed to be WC Abhinandan, and then surprisingly, only hes the one who hasnt spoken yet.....strange as usual....
> 
> You are right dear, Indian military procurement policy surprises me as well.....i dont know whats the delay in procuring something once it is selected and the money is there as well...



WC Abhinandan has accepted a medal, the citation of which says the brought down an F-16.

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## Areesh

KhanBaba2 said:


> WC Abhinandan has accepted a medal, the citation of which says the brought down an F-16.



Well he accepted what his government gave to him. The least you can do with a fascist government

But he didn't support them personally in their lie which we appreciate

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## maverick1977

can someone share their media videos the moment they found out about Pakistan attack.. i will love to see them crying and moaning when it happenend

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## Zarvan

Trailer23 said:


> This video is interesting...
> 
> It was recorded early morning on the 27th of Feb, around the time our boys were gearing up to pay them a visit. Whilst sitting in their studios, they had no clue *what was coming...*


Can you find more videos from this channel of 27th February


PanzerKiel said:


> Yes, you are right...thats a logical sequence.....but Indian military needs to be by default proactive...it shouldnt be in the need of such big events or blunders to remind it of its passiveness.


Our neighbors are in delusion that we won't learn from incidents of 26th and 27th.

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## The Raven

RoshiniVenegal said:


> It's not about what posture, Pakistan initially told that F 16 was not used. Of course every country has the right to use whatever weopans they have. India knows that very well, when your most potent aircraft was F16 what else is it for.



It was made clear by ISPR that F-16s were not used offensively for the strike missions, not that they were not used at all.


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## RoshiniVenegal

The Raven said:


> It was made clear by ISPR that F-16s were not used offensively for the strike missions, not that they were not used at all.


No, at that time Pakistan refused using F16 at all. The package had mirages, jf27, f16 and other aircrafts. None crossed Loc. Pakistan was careful not to escalate too. ISPR made lots of contradictory statements.


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## kursed

PanzerKiel said:


> Personally, i take WC Abhinandan as a real gentleman (till now)...he ofcourse knows exactly what happened, i bet he must have been approached by different quarters to just appear on media and say that he shot down an F-16....and if he had done this, this would have given a new life to indian propaganda.....but see, he hasnt spoken a word about it...generally a nation parades its heroes in front of everyone, like we did (PAF), but the real hero for the Indians in this case was supposed to be WC Abhinandan, and then surprisingly, only hes the one who hasnt spoken yet.....strange as usual....
> 
> You are right dear, Indian military procurement policy surprises me as well.....i dont know whats the delay in procuring something once it is selected and the money is there as well...



There’s a very specific reason for this, he owes a debt of gratitude to PAF in this regard. We knew his family. And they were directly re assured of his safety. His father was a gentleman officer and so is Abhinandan.

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## untitled

maverick1977 said:


> .. i will love to see them c


They never cried or moaned. They just went quiet (in a state of shock) until their propaganda department spun some stories for them. You can see for yourself by revisiting this thread before and after page 124


RoshiniVenegal said:


> No, at that time Pakistan refused using F16 at all.


There was a reason DGISPR said that and the same reason Indians held that infamous AMRAAM press conference, at the expense of making a fool themselves. Few months down the line US government did issue a warning to Pakistan for using F16s from unauthorised air fields. That has been rectified now

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## arjunk

maverick1977 said:


> can someone share their media videos the moment they found out about Pakistan attack.. i will love to see them crying and moaning when it happenend








Indian reaction to PAF strikes and MiG-21 + Su-30MKI kills.

They were still under the delusion that they were capable of retaliating. Only once their own forces told them it aint happening did they start begging to realease Abhinandan on Twitter and enter full sem2sem mode.

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## GiG

The only thing I don't like about the 27 Feb episode is that Indians justified their actions over Balakot to prevent cross-border terrorism. After observing the situation in Kashmir for 2 years we didn't see any big indent in Kashmir which implies that that the Indian actions have some effect in controlling the so-called non-state actors.


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## Bratva

PanzerKiel said:


> Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...
> 
> ....and i would love to be the one to share it here.....
> 
> Her cheez ka aik waqt hota hai...we are just waiting for the right time....like we did on 27 Feb...timing matters you know.



I dont want to feel good. So Gonna wear a pessimistic cap for a while and counter your post with a theory

"What are the chances that whatever you wrote in Post turns out to be a misunderstanding. The same misunderstanding Asif Ghafoor had w.r.t 2 Pilots.

The voice recording of SU-30 might be of Abhinandan as he ejected and misunderstood to be SU-30 pilot

Ground agents pictures were of Helicopter crash and misunderstood to be su-30 crash pics ?

@Ark_Angel hinted heavily that Pakistan even had Indian funeral ceremony pics of the pilot. But India can easily spin these pics of Helicopter crashed pilot

SAT pics were once again of Mi-17 Helicopter crash ?

I mean If Asif Ghafoor can have a misunderstanding which weakened the case of Pakistan by stating 2 pilots and never correcting himself immediately until 2 months were passed and in April he corrected himself. Then allow us a bit of skepticism over your claims as well kindly. Not that I'll ever raise doubt on your integrity.


GiG said:


> The only thing I don't like about the 27 Feb episode is that Indians justified their actions over Balakot to prevent cross-border terrorism. After observing the situation in Kashmir for 2 years we didn't see any big indent in Kashmir which implies that that the Indian actions have some effect in controlling the so-called non-state actors.











Colonel, Major among 5 personnel killed in encounter in Kashmir; 2 terrorists gunned down


Two terrorists were also killed in the encounter at the Chanjmulla area of Handwara, which is part of north Kashmir's Kupwara district, they said.




economictimes.indiatimes.com













5 Elite Para-SF Commandos Of Indian Army Killed In Hand-To-Hand Combat With Militants


A total of five Indian soldiers from the elite Para-SF or the para commandos have been killed when foiling infiltration attempt into Jammu and Kashmir. This is a massive setback for the Para-SF, one of India’s elite commando units. How Special Forces Of India, MARCOS & Para SF Compete Against US...




eurasiantimes.com




.

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## PanzerKiel

Bratva said:


> I dont want to feel good. So Gonna wear a pessimistic cap for a while and counter your post with a theory
> 
> "What are the chances that whatever you wrote in Post turns out to be a misunderstanding. The same misunderstanding Asif Ghafoor had w.r.t 2 Pilots.
> 
> The voice recording of SU-30 might be of Abhinandan as he ejected and misunderstood to be SU-30 pilot
> 
> Ground agents pictures were of Helicopter crash and misunderstood to be su-30 crash pics ?
> 
> @Ark_Angel hinted heavily that Pakistan even had Indian funeral ceremony pics of the pilot. But India can easily spin these pics of Helicopter crashed pilot pics
> 
> SAT pics were once again of Mi-17 Helicopter crash ?
> 
> I mean If Asif Ghafoor can be misunderstood and weakens the case of Pakistan by stating 2 pilots and never clarifying it. Then allow us a bit of skepticism over your claims as well kindly. Not that I'll ever raise doubt on your integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colonel, Major among 5 personnel killed in encounter in Kashmir; 2 terrorists gunned down
> 
> 
> Two terrorists were also killed in the encounter at the Chanjmulla area of Handwara, which is part of north Kashmir's Kupwara district, they said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> economictimes.indiatimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 Elite Para-SF Commandos Of Indian Army Killed In Hand-To-Hand Combat With Militants
> 
> 
> A total of five Indian soldiers from the elite Para-SF or the para commandos have been killed when foiling infiltration attempt into Jammu and Kashmir. This is a massive setback for the Para-SF, one of India’s elite commando units. How Special Forces Of India, MARCOS & Para SF Compete Against US...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eurasiantimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


With regards to voice recording, the pilot's call sign would be a good indicator....

Call recordings of Indian controller are available as well which can validate which call sign was of Abhinandan and which was of Su30 pilot....

Wreckage of Su30 would be really recognised as there will always be some parts which are from Su30 only.... There will be many....

However, your skepticism is well received, understood and is obvious... No problem dear.

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## GiG

Bratva said:


> I dont want to feel good. So Gonna wear a pessimistic cap for a while and counter your post with a theory
> 
> "What are the chances that whatever you wrote in Post turns out to be a misunderstanding. The same misunderstanding Asif Ghafoor had w.r.t 2 Pilots.
> 
> The voice recording of SU-30 might be of Abhinandan as he ejected and misunderstood to be SU-30 pilot
> 
> Ground agents pictures were of Helicopter crash and misunderstood to be su-30 crash pics ?
> 
> @Ark_Angel hinted heavily that Pakistan even had Indian funeral ceremony pics of the pilot. But India can easily spin these pics of Helicopter crashed pilot pics
> 
> SAT pics were once again of Mi-17 Helicopter crash ?
> 
> I mean If Asif Ghafoor can have a misunderstanding which weakened the case of Pakistan by stating 2 pilots and never correcting himself immediately until 2 months were passed and in April he corrected himself. Then allow us a bit of skepticism over your claims as well kindly. Not that I'll ever raise doubt on your integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colonel, Major among 5 personnel killed in encounter in Kashmir; 2 terrorists gunned down
> 
> 
> Two terrorists were also killed in the encounter at the Chanjmulla area of Handwara, which is part of north Kashmir's Kupwara district, they said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> economictimes.indiatimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 Elite Para-SF Commandos Of Indian Army Killed In Hand-To-Hand Combat With Militants
> 
> 
> A total of five Indian soldiers from the elite Para-SF or the para commandos have been killed when foiling infiltration attempt into Jammu and Kashmir. This is a massive setback for the Para-SF, one of India’s elite commando units. How Special Forces Of India, MARCOS & Para SF Compete Against US...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eurasiantimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Sadly news like these, are a daily occurring in Pakistan


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## ghazi52

The Surprise That Made Enemy Bleed

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## Taimoor Khan

PanzerKiel said:


> its not just a failure of Indian AWACS.....its a failure of multiple dimensions ..... ELINT, HUMINT, SATINT.....




TBH, you can replace India with Israel in above and wont make much of a difference expect they were operating behind the scenes. And that is the bit I am most interested in. 

Alan Warnes was cheeky in documentary about Swift retort, on pointing this out while inspecting the wreckage of Mig21 containing Israeli Elta RWR. Both Mig21 and Su30 were carrying Israeli toys, shootdown by one American AMRAAM on each, and they didnt have any clue what hit them. Very interesting. Maybe American-Israeli cooperation in military field is not that extensive as it is portrayed. Who knows!

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## PanzerKiel

Taimoor Khan said:


> TBH, you can replace India with Israel in above and wont make much of a difference expect they were operating behind the scenes. And that is the bit I am most interested in.
> 
> Alan Warnes was cheeky in documentary about Swift retort, on pointing this out while inspecting the wreckage of Mig21 containing Israeli Elta RWR. Both Mig21 and Su30 were carrying Israeli toys, shootdown by one American AMRAAM on each, and they didnt have any clue what hit them. Very interesting. Maybe American-Israeli cooperation in military field is not that extensive as it is portrayed. Who knows!


As already highlighted, even the best of the equipment is of no use of If given in the hands of someone incompetent.....

Our Blinders are not having the latest equipment....

Our antique Mirages accomplished their mission, their new Mirage 2000s cited radar failure and called no joy...

27 Feb... The real result was not and should not be taken in terms of quality of equipment fielded by both sides.... Rather it was more of a clash of pilots against pilots.... And their planners on both sides... Whoever had the best pilots and planners simply won.... And will win in the future as well...

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## Windjammer

PanzerKiel said:


> With regards to voice recording, the pilot's call sign would be a good indicator....
> 
> Call recordings of Indian controller are available as well which can validate which call sign was of Abhinandan and which was of Su30 pilot....
> 
> Wreckage of Su30 would be really recognised as there will always be some parts which are from Su30 only.... There will be many....
> 
> However, your skepticism is well received, understood and is obvious... No problem dear.


One other source which hasn't found much mention in this scenario and possibly only approached by the American authorities and was possibly the reason for Americans distributing sweets at Shahbaz air base.....the shooting down of just a MiG-21 wouldn't have called for such celebrations.









U.S. Infrared Satellite Data Could Settle The Debate Over Pakistan-India Dogfight


The constellation of orbital sensors can detect infrared events such as missile launches, artillery fire, and planes exploding in the sky.




www.thedrive.com

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## Mack Truck

Taimoor Khan said:


> TBH, you can replace India with Israel in above and wont make much of a difference expect they were operating behind the scenes. And that is the bit I am most interested in.
> 
> Alan Warnes was cheeky in documentary about Swift retort, on pointing this out while inspecting the wreckage of Mig21 containing Israeli Elta RWR. Both Mig21 and Su30 were carrying Israeli toys, shootdown by one American AMRAAM on each, and they didnt have any clue what hit them. Very interesting. Maybe American-Israeli cooperation in military field is not that extensive as it is portrayed. Who knows!



Pakistan didn't shoot down any Su-30's, you can't confirm this from independent sources, if we consider unsubstantiated claims, then Pakistan also lost an F-16 according to India.


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## Windjammer

Mack Truck said:


> Pakistan didn't shoot down any Su-30's, you can't confirm this from independent sources, if we consider unsubstantiated claims, then Pakistan also lost an F-16 according to India.


When you have over 250 SU-30s at your disposal (Considered as one of the top air superiority fighter) and still cry out for a few dozen Rafales, it does mean you are not satisfied with the outcome of your best in the inventory. Pakistan never complained to Russia, France or Israel for supplying India with their platforms and weapons.

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## Taimoor Khan

PanzerKiel said:


> As already highlighted, even the best of the equipment is of no use of If given in the hands of someone incompetent.....
> 
> Our Blinders are not having the latest equipment....
> 
> Our antique Mirages accomplished their mission, their new Mirage 2000s cited radar failure and called no joy...
> 
> 27 Feb... The real result was not and should not be taken in terms of quality of equipment fielded by both sides.... Rather it was more of a clash of pilots against pilots.... And their planners on both sides... Whoever had the best pilots and planners simply won.... And will win in the future as well...




Point was, Abhinandon was not aware of incoming missile. Regardless of his flying skills or lack off, he didnt get the warnings from Israeli RWR fitted in his Mig, failing to pick incoming American made missile. This peculiar case of Israeli RWR and American AMRAAM is very interesting.


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## kursed

GiG said:


> The only thing I don't like about the 27 Feb episode is that Indians justified their actions over Balakot to prevent cross-border terrorism. After observing the situation in Kashmir for 2 years we didn't see any big indent in Kashmir which implies that that the Indian actions have some effect in controlling the so-called non-state actors.


Pulwama was blue on blue, a politically driven attack by BJP's need for securing an electoral win. It had nothing to do with Pakistan, even then. Good try to pander Indian propaganda though. =)

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## Mack Truck

Windjammer said:


> When you have over 250 SU-30s at your disposal (Considered as one of the top air superiority fighter) and still cry out for a few dozen Rafales, it does mean you are not satisfied with the outcome of your best in the inventory. Pakistan never complained to Russia, France or Israel for supplying India with their platforms and weapons.



They didn't cry for any Rafales, India was trying to acquire new fighter jets since 2008 in their MRCA competition, Rafale won that competition in 2012, but then it was delayed due to co-production disagreements. And also, last year India Purchased MiG-29s and more Su-30s.


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## Taimoor Khan

Mack Truck said:


> Pakistan didn't shoot down any Su-30's, you can't confirm this from independent sources, if we consider unsubstantiated claims, then Pakistan also lost an F-16 according to India.



This was erected on one of PAF base. 








The PAF pilot who shot down SU30 came on media and discussed the air battle. 

None of which has happened in case of Indian claims of F16. I am actually waiting for them to bring forth the pilot and let him make his claim of F16. 

As I said, I am more interested in the Israeli angle in this, you are free to believe what ever you want.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Taimoor Khan said:


> This was erected on one of PAF base.
> 
> View attachment 716897
> 
> 
> 
> The PAF pilot who shot down SU30 came on media and discussed the air battle.
> 
> None of which has happened in case of Indian claims of F16. I am actually waiting for them to bring forth the pilot and let him make his claim of F16.
> 
> As I said, I am more interested in the Israeli angle in this, you are free to believe what ever you want.





Don't worry about that, there will be 100s of indian pilots claiming to have shot down 20 Pakistani F-16s with 2 missiles...........

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## Mack Truck

Taimoor Khan said:


> This was erected on one of PAF base.
> 
> View attachment 716897
> 
> 
> 
> The PAF pilot who shot down SU30 came on media and discussed the air battle.
> 
> None of which has happened in case of Indian claims of F16. I am actually waiting for them to bring forth the pilot and let him make his claim of F16.
> 
> As I said, I am more interested in the Israeli angle in this, you are free to believe what ever you want.



Alright, where's your proof that the MiG pilot didn't get a missile warning? You are imagining things then making a conclusion based on unverified claims. How did you know the warning system didn't work?


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## Taimoor Khan

Mack Truck said:


> Alright, where's your proof that the MiG pilot didn't get a missile warning? You are imagining things then making a conclusion based on unverified claims. How did you know the warning system didn't work?




Time stamped the documentary for you. Pay attention to words. "Didnt seems to work that day". Guy is no mug.







Why your Israeli arse on fire btw? Shit happens, move along.

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## Mack Truck

Taimoor Khan said:


> Time stamped the documentary for you. Pay attention to words. "Didnt seems to work that day". Guy is no mug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why your Israeli arse on fire btw? Shit happens, move along.



Hol'up


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## Path-Finder



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## Mack Truck

Taimoor Khan said:


> Time stamped the documentary for you. Pay attention to words. "Didnt seems to work that day". Guy is no mug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why your Israeli arse on fire btw? Shit happens, move along.




So basically, they are concluding Abhinandan didn't know he was being tracked/attacked because he didn't drop his fuel tanks to try to evade the missile? And that means the system didn't work? I don't think so.. that just indicates bad decision making by the pilot... Also we don't have the full picture yet, what was the range and direction of engagement? Was it head-on? The angle of attack can make a difference when it comes to warning.


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## Windjammer

Mack Truck said:


> They didn't cry for any Rafales, India was trying to acquire new fighter jets since 2008 in their MRCA competition, Rafale won that competition in 2012, but then it was delayed due to co-production disagreements. And also, last year India Purchased MiG-29s and more Su-30s.


One should first enlighten themselves of all the happening before making and drawing own conclusions.
Emphasise on results would have been different, i highly doubt that Indian PM was brooding over the loss of a 50s era MiG-21....the crash record of which in the IAF stands around 500.

*'If we had Rafale, results would have been different': PM Modi*

Days after the airstrike against terror camp in Pakistan and subsequent events, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday said the country was feeling the absence of Rafale and results would have been different if India had the fighter jets as he attacked the Congress for its tirade against his government over the aircraft deal. 









'If we had Rafale, results would have been different': PM Modi


Days after the airstrike against terror camp in Pakistan and subsequent events, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday said the country was feeling the absence of Rafale and results would have been different if India had the fighter jets as he attacked the Congress for its tirade against his...




www.dnaindia.com


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## DrWatson775

RoshiniVenegal said:


> It's not about what posture, Pakistan initially told that F 16 was not used. Of course every country has the right to use whatever weopans they have. India knows that very well, when your most potent aircraft was F16 what else is it for.


That was by DG ISPR in response to a question about which aircrafts were used for the bombing strikes. His statement then seems to have been generalized. Additionally he did not to give more specifics about aircraft usage at the time due to multiple reasons which didn't clarify things much but was the needed narrative at the time.


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## masterchief_mirza

Path-Finder said:


> View attachment 716919


Bhai, add the "yeh humari pawri hain" bit.

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## Taimoor Khan

Mack Truck said:


> So basically, they are concluding Abhinandan didn't know he was being tracked/attacked because he didn't drop his fuel tanks to try to evade the missile? And that means the system didn't work? I don't think so.. that just indicates bad decision making by the pilot... Also we don't have the full picture yet, what was the range and direction of engagement? Was it head-on? The angle of attack can make a difference when it comes to warning.



Dont waste my time, go through full documentary. The unfortunate pilot was flying blind. Alan Warnes is a professional, he is saying that Isreali Elta RWR didnt live upto its hype.


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## Mack Truck

Windjammer said:


> One should first enlighten themselves of all the happening before making and drawing own conclusions.
> Emphasise on results would have been different, i highly doubt that Indian PM was brooding over the loss of a 50s era MiG-21....the crash record of which in the IAF stands around 500.
> 
> *'If we had Rafale, results would have been different': PM Modi*
> 
> Days after the airstrike against terror camp in Pakistan and subsequent events, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday said the country was feeling the absence of Rafale and results would have been different if India had the fighter jets as he attacked the Congress for its tirade against his government over the aircraft deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'If we had Rafale, results would have been different': PM Modi
> 
> 
> Days after the airstrike against terror camp in Pakistan and subsequent events, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday said the country was feeling the absence of Rafale and results would have been different if India had the fighter jets as he attacked the Congress for its tirade against his...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dnaindia.com


It's funny you are using half-assed information to support your point of view, in the article you posted, Modi is grieving the loss of the MiG-21 and the capture of the pilot, to say if Abhinandan was flying a Rafale instead of a MiG-21, this wouldn't have happened. That's what Modi was trying to say.


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## HRK

@Areesh plz click here and here and enjoy the obsession

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## HRK

> It's funny you are using half-assed information to support your point of view, in the article you posted, Modi is grieving the loss of the MiG-21 and the capture of the pilot, to say if Abhinandan was flying a Rafale instead of a MiG-21, this wouldn't have happened. That's what Modi was trying to say.



  
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## Taimoor Khan

Mack Truck said:


> 'professional' you mean paid actor?
> View attachment 716935



I thought you Isrealis are clever bunch, but since you been hanging around with rats in east, your IQ level has certainly gone down. 

Your ignorance is not my problem.

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## Mack Truck

HRK said:


> @Areesh plz click here and here and enjoy the obsession


 Sure go ahead and dismiss with a condescending remark without addressing anything or participating with anything useful.

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## Windjammer

Mack Truck said:


> It's funny you are using half-assed information to support your point of view, in the article you posted, Modi is grieving the loss of the MiG-21 and the capture of the pilot, to say if Abhinandan was flying a Rafale instead of a MiG-21, this wouldn't have happened. That's what Modi was trying to say.


Yup as i thought, you are more Indian than an average Indian... once you have displayed your real flags kindly point out where Modi has said anything about if Abhinandan (You also know the name well) was flying the Rafale.....unless you can read minds.

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## Cookie Monster

RoshiniVenegal said:


> It's not about what posture, Pakistan initially told that F 16 was not used. Of course every country has the right to use whatever weopans they have. India knows that very well, when your most potent aircraft was F16 what else is it for.


F16s were not used in operation swift retort.
As in the aircrafts used to infiltrate Indian airspace and strike at targets(the planned strike under the operation swift retort) were JF17s and Mirages. F16s were on CAP in case IAF engaged. The IAF jets that did end up engaging...were then promptly shot down(hence why @The Eagle is saying that PAF used them defensively).

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## Mack Truck

Windjammer said:


> Yup as i thought, you are more Indian than an average Indian... once you have displayed your real flags kindly point out where Modi has said anything about if Abhinandan (You also know the name well) was flying the Rafale.....unless you can read minds.



Here https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...en-different-pm-modi/articleshow/68254028.cms

"If the Air Force had Rafale today, the result would have been different. Nobody from our side would have been hurt if the IAF had Rafale at the time of air strike," Modi said.


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## Taimoor Khan

Mack Truck said:


> Sure go ahead and dismiss with a condescending remark without addressing anything or participating with anything useful.



Here are few things that might invoke few neurons in your upper chamber. Pay attention. 

You are giving credence to Indian claims about their F16 Bollywood non sense. On what basis? What evidence you got? This arguement that since there are no clear wreckage footage of su30 , so you should also certify Indian claims about F16! What non sense (remember, Pakistan has shown all mig21 missiles intact with the wreckage of mig21. So nothing was fired, let alone against f16).

On Pakistani side:

1) got wreckage of mig21
2) held custody of Indian pilot that was shotdown, thoroughly debriefed.
3) shown the clip of built in camera onboard its bomb heading towards Indian military depo. 
4) on day one of operation swift retort, Pakistan clearly said that it got nothing to do with the unfortunate Indian helicopter, and made it clear that it was India own goal. Day one! Could have easily taken credit of it. It took India many months to cough up this rather bleak fact for themselves. (Again poor thing was shotdown using Isreali product)

India:

Has shown nothing , zero, zilch, Nada.

So when Pakistan is saying that it scored an su30 as well, it's a matter of credibility here as well. 


Also, you got Isreali spice bomb failure, isreali protection suite installed on Indian jets failure, Isreali sypder anti aircraft system failure (own goal), and I will add to this list that failure of Isreali greenpine radars which are installed in illegally Indian occupied Kashmir, to detect such a large raiding party of PAF operating with such impunity. Hell, you can add Israeli phalcon AWACS as well. 

A horrible marketing day for Isreali products.

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## Trailer23

Windjammer said:


> Yup as i thought, you are more Indian than an average Indian... once you have displayed your real flags






​A Jordanian living in the US gets 2 Negative Ratings in the span of 1hr - defending Indians or atleast siding with them  .

Yeah, if it sounds like an Indian, acts like an Indian and if it weren't for the internet..., had the stench too - i'd say Indian.

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## Mack Truck

Taimoor Khan said:


> Here are few things that might invoke few neurons in your upper chamber. Pay attention.
> 
> You are giving credence to Indian claims about their F16 Bollywood non sense. On what basis? What evidence you got? This arguement that since there are no clear wreckage footage of su30 , so you should also certify Indian claims about F16! What non sense (remember, Pakistan has shown all mig21 missiles intact with the wreckage of mig21. So nothing was fired, let alone against f16).
> 
> On Pakistani side:
> 
> 1) got wreckage of mig21
> 2) held custody of Indian pilot that was shotdown, thoroughly debriefed.
> 3) shown the clip of built in camera onboard its bomb heading towards Indian military depo.
> 4) on day one of operation swift retort, Pakistan clearly said that it got nothing to do with the unfortunate Indian helicopter, and made it clear that it was India own goal. Day one! Could have easily taken credit of it. It took India many months to cough up this rather bleak fact for themselves. (Again poor thing was shotdown using Isreali product)
> 
> India:
> 
> Has shown nothing , zero, zilch, Nada.
> 
> So when Pakistan is saying that it scored an su30 as well, it's a matter of credibility here as well.
> 
> 
> Also, you got Isreali spice bomb failure, isreali protection suite installed on Indian jets failure, Isreali sypder anti aircraft system failure (own goal), and I will add to this list that failure of Isreali greenpine radars which are installed in illegally Indian occupied Kashmir, to detect such a large raiding party of PAF operating with such impunity. Hell, you can add Israeli phalcon AWACS as well.
> 
> A horrible marketing day for Isreali products.



I never said i believe India shot down any F-16s, they didn't, and Pakistan also didn't down any Su-30s. I only believe what's confirmed, the MiG-21, anything beside that are typical claims.


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## Windjammer

Mack Truck said:


> Here https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...en-different-pm-modi/articleshow/68254028.cms
> 
> "If the Air Force had Rafale today, the result would have been different. Nobody from our side would have been hurt if the IAF had Rafale at the time of air strike," Modi said.


*But where did he said ''If Abhinandan was flying Rafale instead of MiG-21'' ??? 
Most likely he was referring to the SU-30 pilots. *


Mack Truck said:


> It's funny you are using half-assed information to support your point of view, in the article you posted, Modi is grieving the loss of the MiG-21 and the capture of the pilot, to say if Abhinandan was flying a Rafale instead of a MiG-21, this wouldn't have happened. That's what Modi was trying to say.

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## Mack Truck

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 716938
> ​A Jordanian living in the US gets 2 Negative Ratings in the span of 1hr - defending Indians or atleast siding with them  .
> 
> Yeah, if it sounds like an Indian, acts like an Indian and if it weren't for the internet..., had the stench too - i'd say Indian.



I didn't side with anyone, you are all just imagining things.

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## HRK

Taimoor Khan said:


> On what basis?


on the basis of indianness

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## kursed

PanzerKiel said:


> As already highlighted, even the best of the equipment is of no use of If given in the hands of someone incompetent.....
> 
> Our Blinders are not having the latest equipment....
> 
> Our antique Mirages accomplished their mission, their new Mirage 2000s cited radar failure and called no joy...
> 
> 27 Feb... The real result was not and should not be taken in terms of quality of equipment fielded by both sides.... Rather it was more of a clash of pilots against pilots.... And their planners on both sides... Whoever had the best pilots and planners simply won.... And will win in the future as well...


As someone from NATO told me first hand, there is a difference between having a capability and having the competence to wield that capability / capacity to its fullest. PAF that day showed to be in complete command of their systems, showed their competence and training. And believe it or not, there was no one country that anticipated PAF to be this way.

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## Taimoor Khan

Mack Truck said:


> I never said i believe India shot down any F-16s, they didn't, and Pakistan also didn't down any Su-30s. I only believe what's confirmed, the MiG-21, anything beside that are typical claims.



Pakistan has made official documentary about op swift retort, interviewing the pilot who shotdown su30. I have given you while list of other events to underline the credibility of Pakistani claims, you can keep on living in denial mode, doesn't effect anyone.

As I said, i am most interested in Isreali products failure (a whole array of them) when PAF came calling and that's what I want to highlight.

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## The Eagle

Mack Truck said:


> I didn't side with anyone, you are all just imagining things.



Since you are trying to be all over the internet, I have an advise which may come handy and useful if you really are serious to share knowledge and open enough to understand or learn few things. Let's just begin with first rule that nobody, I mean nobody is going to share exact and official account of the day except for whatever is already being Said, secondly, we have to read, re-read between the lines, have to be capable enough to understand the warfare scenarios and possible tactics and then carry on with arguments. Since I tried to establish.a bit as a base for intellect and useful arguments, allow me to refer to Abhinandan statement on that day. He said that "he was looking for a target and suddenly, he was struck by missile". Do you think he should have that... I did receive RWR or MAW like a heavy caution tone, blips for MAWs on right side screen, while I was blind but trying to sneak through low flying and take a shot but then Radar wasn't locking for no reason and head gear radio was making a hell of sound? My dear Analyst: There are things that being said only in simple words. He was looking for a target and was hit suddenly, tells that he had no clue what was coming from above. Or unless, he comes forward and tells exact same or a different story. Till then, the poor fella was truly blinded and deaf having no space to reach his voice to the shouting lady in IAF control tower. Again, till then many of us including you unfortunately, will have to live with it what's being observed by words. From Israeli Spice 2000 to Electronics and all, it was an all out defeat of everyone in Indian camp.

Regards,

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## GiG

kursed said:


> Pulwama was blue on blue, a politically driven attack by BJP's need for securing an electoral win. It had nothing to do with Pakistan, even then. Good try to pander Indian propaganda though. =)


All i am saying is that Indians were able to reverse the death by 1000 cuts doctrine and put Pakistan on the receiving end. Chest thumping on one incident can satisfy the ego but will not change ground realities.

Peaceful co-existence with the fascist hindutva regime is not possible. Neutralizing Indian assets in Afghanistan may have a short term impact in their operations but for establishing long term deterrence real pain should be inflicted on the perpetrators in the main land to keep them at bay.

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## Amaa'n

Mack Truck said:


> Here https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...en-different-pm-modi/articleshow/68254028.cms
> 
> "If the Air Force had Rafale today, the result would have been different. Nobody from our side would have been hurt if the IAF had Rafale at the time of air strike," Modi said.


Dude, you mind correcting your flags first? your location flags are all over the place. You logged in from One Country, believed to be a resident of second country but then originally from third country??

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## kursed

GiG said:


> All i am saying is that Indians were able to reverse the death by 1000 cuts doctrine and put Pakistan on the receiving end. Chest thumping on one incident can satisfy the ego but will not change ground realities.
> 
> Peaceful co-existence with the fascist hindutva regime is not possible. Neutralizing Indian assets in Afghanistan may have a short term impact in their operations but for establishing long term deterrence real pain should be inflicted on the perpetrators in the main land to keep them at bay.


There is no reason for Pakistan to take the Indian bait for instigating anything, fascists in India are eating at their own tail, as things stand. Why interrupt an enemy hell bent upon killing itself.


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## GumNaam

kursed said:


> There is no reason for Pakistan to take the Indian bait for instigating anything, fascists in India are eating at their own tail, as things stand. Why interrupt an enemy hell bent upon killing itself.


in other words, india is inflicting itself with a 1000 cuts while we sit back and eat...


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## GiG

kursed said:


> There is no reason for Pakistan to take the Indian bait for instigating anything, fascists in India are eating at their own tail, as things stand. Why interrupt an enemy hell bent upon killing itself.


Pakistan should establish deterrence against full spectrum of threats either conventional or un conventional. The fascist regime should not be allowed to bleed us to death either economically or militarily. They may be digging up there own grave but let us not allow them to pull us with them.

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## baqai

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> You logged in from One Country,



ye hum hain



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> believed to be a resident of second country



ye hamaray typical jhoot hain 



Foxtrot Alpha said:


> but then originally from third country??



aur ye dekho as usual hamari kuttay wali hu rahi hai

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## ziaulislam

Trailer23 said:


> I gotta confess. I have somewhat of a guilty pleasure, where I often visit a certain Indian Defense-related Forum.
> 
> Its so much fun. Relating to 26th/27th, they only remember/discuss 02 things.
> 
> *1.* Dosra Pilot
> *2.* Shooting down a F-16 which basically covers Point *1*.
> 
> There is ZER0 talk about us catching them asleep in broad-daylight. No talk about our H-4 footage. Nothing about them shooting down their own Mi-17. Nothing about their 2 Mirages having Radar issues at the same time.
> 
> Oh, just so that you all know, they can flatten out the PAF in less than 2 Days with the help of the Navy (MiG-29's) taking on PAF Base Masroor.


nothing about the entire airforce being jammed with operator screaming to abhi to comeback in high pitch female voice


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## baqai

this video is one of my ever favorite videos on the event, so i need an excuse to watch it again, and post it again 









There is no God but ONE. We will fight. | لا إله إلا الله We will fight. We don't talk and we know how to walk the talk. We don't make noise for political gains unlike our nieghbors. Our actions... | By Pakistan Defence | Facebook


1.2M views, 48K likes, 27K loves, 2.3K comments, 35K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Pakistan Defence: لا إله إلا الله We will fight. We don't talk and we know how to walk the talk. We don't make...




fb.watch

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## Myth_buster_1

Mack Truck said:


> Sure go ahead and dismiss with a condescending remark without addressing anything or participating with anything useful.



Indian F-16 claim has already been debunked millions of times with facts and evidence where as information that has been provided by PAF about Su-30 kill is more believable. 
Also the Su-30 orders IAF placed last year was to replace that were lost due to accidents but one extra that they ordered is not actually replacing lost in accident but due to PAF kill.


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## kursed

GiG said:


> Pakistan should establish deterrence against full spectrum of threats either conventional or un conventional. The fascist regime should not be allowed to bleed us to death either economically or militarily. They may be digging up there own grave but let us not allow them to pull us with them.


What bleed us to death? Are you paying attention to terrorism stats in Pakistan, they’re at their lowest since WOT began. What’re you even talking about?

Indian setups in Pakistan have been meticulously taken apart, and there’s nothing they’ve been able to do about it. Either you’re an Indian or just parroting their propaganda.

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## Goritoes

PanzerKiel said:


> Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...
> 
> ....and i would love to be the one to share it here.....
> 
> Her cheez ka aik waqt hota hai...we are just waiting for the right time....like we did on 27 Feb...timing matters you know.



You better Tag me in whenever you post those evidence, Hum overseas Pakistaniyo ko kafi mouqe milte hai Indians ki bajane mai 

@The Eagle @PanzerKiel @HRK, we did notice from multiple sources that Pakistan have the evidence which can settle the case of Su30 but waiting for the right time, this statement gives Indians something to hold dear on and laugh that Look Pakistan has no evidence its just redharring, but there is something that clicked by mind after reading @PanzerKiel comment few pages back, that Pakistan and its Armed forces get a full dose of morale boost even without presenting the case for Su30, think about it from Pakistan prospectus, *Pakistan openly Challenge Indian claim of Balakot, told them 24 hours ago that we are coming, and coming in hot, then we did come, 24+ plane package, bomb them, return back uncontested, drop their mig21, capture their pilot, beat the crap out of him, fix that poor chap up, gave him tea ,and send him back in 24 hours as a peace gesture, Laugh about Indian failure, joke about IAF friendly fire incident*, I mean just look at all bold highlighted parts, I did not mentioned the Su30 case and yet this seems horrible for IAF and Indians.

Holding on to the evidence from the world, and release it at an appropriate time can mean that what Pakistan is possibly thinking that in case of another skirmish with India, before the actual action there is a lot of talk and chest-thumping, and when a conflict seems inescapable, here there comes the evidence of Su30 that will deeply demoralize the IAF and Indian forces in General. If I had any say in Pakistan armed forces affairs I would suggest holding the evidence regarding Su30 and whatever else happens on that fateful day for Poor Indians, until the next conflict and when it seems that things are going to escalate, then as Once a Legend TV presenter said, " Boom goes the Dynamite "

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## ARMalik

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 716938
> ​A Jordanian living in the US gets 2 Negative Ratings in the span of 1hr - defending Indians or atleast siding with them  .
> 
> Yeah, if it sounds like an Indian, acts like an Indian and if it weren't for the internet..., had the stench too - i'd say Indian.





Mack Truck said:


> I never said i believe India shot down any F-16s, they didn't, and Pakistan also didn't down any Su-30s. I only believe what's confirmed, the MiG-21, anything beside that are typical claims.



@waz ... hey buddy, as you can see this indian has two IDs, which is against the forum rules. I would not be surprised if he is one of the multiple ID rats here. He needs to be shown the door. Thank you.

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## Sheikh Rauf

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Not all, atleast airchief should have been sacked. Airforce overlooked the fact that Pakistan had longer range BVR. Every Indian airforce enthusiast was expecting India to have longer ranged BVR missile which already exists in Russian inventory. Anyway a huge lesson for Indian airforce with minimal damage.


Minimal damage and Huge insult to a country who claim to be super power. i have my doubts that india will ever learn from this mistake they will do it over and over again and then try to cover up with media monkies.


RoshiniVenegal said:


> It is not about airforce, but about political leadership. War was never on cards. By publicly stating we don't want escalation, India foolishly conveyed that we are not ready. Neither countries were ready for war.
> Indians were not crying Pakistan should not use Amraam, but merely debunking the statement that F16s were not used.


its not politicians its even their own people who cant see even those who sell F16 said their is no f16 hit by Hindi.


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## SQ8

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 716938
> ​A Jordanian living in the US gets 2 Negative Ratings in the span of 1hr - defending Indians or atleast siding with them  .
> 
> Yeah, if it sounds like an Indian, acts like an Indian and if it weren't for the internet..., had the stench too - i'd say Indian.


If it uses a fake IP , yes.

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## Ghessan

The Eagle said:


> I really hoped back then if there was one to slap them hard and tell them to make a stand instead of crying like a spoiled child.



that was needed, when you have crossed the IB, it is act of war. how can we let it go as a skirmish and then they expect the retaliation. 

retaliation with reluctance gave a lot of face saving to them and words to hide behind. it is not that face saving is the only thing they got but a lot more. all those statements from the high ups we heard, what would they spit otherwise? And Modi! whatever amazing words he spit out, in a nutshell it would be same "agar rafael hota..."

bigger loss bring shiver to the lanes which was missed by PAF. what ever was the level of damage, they will go blindly for shopping spree won't be different from what is going on now but on the front a lot had changed to face PAF.


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## The Eagle

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Dude, you mind correcting your flags first? your location flags are all over the place. You logged in from One Country, believed to be a resident of second country but then originally from third country??



Esa lag raja ha k UN k bahar flags ka stall laga hua ha. . . . Pawri hu rahi ha kia..... If he could, will choose every flag on Earth.


Ghessan said:


> that was needed, when you have crossed the IB, it is act of war. how can we let it go as a skirmish and then they expect the retaliation.
> 
> retaliation with reluctance gave a lot of face saving to them and words to hide behind. it is not that face saving is the only thing they got but a lot more. all those statements from the high ups we heard, what would they spit otherwise? And Modi! whatever amazing words he spit out, in a nutshell it would be same "agar rafael hota..."
> 
> bigger loss bring shiver to the lanes which was missed by PAF. what ever was the level of damage, they will go blindly for shopping spree won't be different from what is going on now but on the front a lot had changed to face PAF.



We did what was needed to be done. Unfortunately, it should have been some sane Indian slapping them for all that drama and lies afterwards. It was their turn to slap the RSS regime hard and stop them from further embarrassment. As far as shooting more planes is concern, I believe that whether it's a shot being fired, someone injured, an asset lost and Pilot captured would have good enough for self respecting high moral professional force to see the reality but given RSS track record; better not to expect as such.

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## baqai

Goritoes said:


> Holding on to the evidence from the world, and release it at an appropriate time can mean that what Pakistan is possibly thinking that in case of another skirmish with India, before the actual action there is a lot of talk and chest-thumping, and when a conflict seems inescapable, here there comes the evidence of Su30 *that will deeply demoralize the IAF and Indian forces in General*. If I had any say in Pakistan armed forces affairs I would suggest holding the evidence regarding Su30 and whatever else happens on that fateful day for Poor Indians, until the next conflict and when it seems that things are going to escalate, then as Once a Legend TV presenter said, " Boom goes the Dynamite "



i think inner circles on both the sides already know what happened that day, if you just go back in time and see that historical (and hysterical as well) news conference regarding the AMRAAM they found, a picture speaks a thousand words and look at their face.


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## Ghessan

Windjammer said:


> *But where did he said ''If Abhinandan was flying Rafale instead of MiG-21'' ???
> Most likely he was referring to the SU-30 pilots. *






> "If the Air Force had Rafale today, the result would have been different. Nobody from our side would have been hurt if the IAF had Rafale at the time of air strike," Modi said.


says a lot, what does it mean when he says "nobody" can't count own kill helicopter.



The Eagle said:


> It was their turn to slap the RSS regime hard and stop them from further embarrassment.



that is the reason to slap them hard as they themselves are just what they are. they need spanking to shut them up, anyhow i am of the view it wont wake them up otherwise, except a rise to the level of cowardice.

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## Salza

Bratva said:


> I mean If Asif Ghafoor can have a misunderstanding which weakened the case of Pakistan by stating 2 pilots and never correcting himself immediately until 2 months were passed and in April he corrected himself.




In which world are you living in ? He clarified it on the same day infact just in 4 hours after his press conference. News ticker about this clarification was shown as breaking news in all the news channel on that day. You really need to update yourself with correct information.

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## RoshiniVenegal

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Minimal damage and Huge insult to a country who claim to be super power. i have my doubts that india will ever learn from this mistake they will do it over and over again and then try to cover up with media monkies.
> 
> its not politicians its even their own people who cant see even those who sell F16 said their is no f16 hit by Hindi.


Government was forced to take action against terrorists plus boost election prospect. Warcwas never on cards. Learn from mistakes only time will tell. Cover ups are done by both nations.


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## wasileo80

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Bro these shamless indian skunks(bhakats) dont care if they lose or insulted as long as it looks good hahaha i know it doesnt make sense but this is what we call india.
> Imagin abhinandone was promoted after all this if it was anyother nation they cud have remove all those who are running airforce and resoponsible for all this crap but again its india.


Promotion of a downed pilot is not something we can shout about. In air combat one has to be down and in some cases captured by opponent but it dosent mean that he should be sacked after he returned to his country and join the force. History tells us that even PAF air chief Pervaiz Mehndi Qureshi once shot down in India and taken as PoW but after war he returned back and continue his services and even rose to CAS of PAF. So does that mean Pervaiz Mehndi Qureshi was a bad pilot or he had not been promoted? Hope you understand.

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## GiG

kursed said:


> What bleed us to death? Are you paying attention to terrorism stats in Pakistan, they’re at their lowest since WOT began. What’re you even talking about?
> 
> Indian setups in Pakistan have been meticulously taken apart, and there’s nothing they’ve been able to do about it. Either you’re an Indian or just parroting their propaganda.


These are the terrorism statistics 








Global terrorism index 2021 | Statista


The global terrorism index systematically ranks countries of the world according to their terrorist activity.




www.statista.com





The occurrence of the attacks are slowed down but they are still going on(Hazara, Waziristan etc). This is what i said earlier neutralizing Indian assets in Afghanistan will just have an operational impact.

Second why its parroting indian propaganda? I also suspect your intentions here. Pakistan paraded kulbhusahn to prove Indian state sponsored terrorsim and their continued efforts to destabilize Pakistan. 

My basic argument as stated before is that Pakistanis failed to establish deterrence against Indian state sponsored terrorism which cost us 1000s of lives and billions of economic damage. We have to accept the reality that they are bleeding us militarily and economically.

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## wasileo80

Bratva said:


> I dont want to feel good. So Gonna wear a pessimistic cap for a while and counter your post with a theory
> 
> "What are the chances that whatever you wrote in Post turns out to be a misunderstanding. The same misunderstanding Asif Ghafoor had w.r.t 2 Pilots.
> 
> The voice recording of SU-30 might be of Abhinandan as he ejected and misunderstood to be SU-30 pilot
> 
> Ground agents pictures were of Helicopter crash and misunderstood to be su-30 crash pics ?
> 
> @Ark_Angel hinted heavily that Pakistan even had Indian funeral ceremony pics of the pilot. But India can easily spin these pics of Helicopter crashed pilot
> 
> SAT pics were once again of Mi-17 Helicopter crash ?
> 
> I mean If Asif Ghafoor can have a misunderstanding which weakened the case of Pakistan by stating 2 pilots and never correcting himself immediately until 2 months were passed and in April he corrected himself. Then allow us a bit of skepticism over your claims as well kindly. Not that I'll ever raise doubt on your integrity.
> 
> 
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> Colonel, Major among 5 personnel killed in encounter in Kashmir; 2 terrorists gunned down
> 
> 
> Two terrorists were also killed in the encounter at the Chanjmulla area of Handwara, which is part of north Kashmir's Kupwara district, they said.
> 
> 
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> 
> economictimes.indiatimes.com
> 
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> 5 Elite Para-SF Commandos Of Indian Army Killed In Hand-To-Hand Combat With Militants
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> A total of five Indian soldiers from the elite Para-SF or the para commandos have been killed when foiling infiltration attempt into Jammu and Kashmir. This is a massive setback for the Para-SF, one of India’s elite commando units. How Special Forces Of India, MARCOS & Para SF Compete Against US...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eurasiantimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


How can they mix up the pilot recordings when there is a significant time *Gap* of shooting down MKI and Abhinandan Mig-21. Rest is history.

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## wasileo80

Mack Truck said:


> I didn't side with anyone, you are all just imagining things.


Listen dear, I spoke this many times and once more that truth is only one and it cant be changed with time. So the truth is PAF shot down MKI and they have all the proofs and all the concerned parties well known the facts including PAF, IAF, USAF, Russian Air Foce and few more. And as far as proofs of MKI shot down are concerned, that why PAF didnt showed up? then let me clear one thing that PAF didnt shot down the planes to give a chit chat for internet warriors to discuss or praise. That was a mission and they accomplished it successfully and the message they wanted to send across, they did successfully to concerned parties.
Now it dosent matter if someone an ordinary internet guy like you will come and ask for evidence and PAF will provide you the proof just to satisfy you? No it dosent work like that.

So history has already been written and it cant be changed by saying that world didnt see the proof so this version of history is not acceptable. Those who are more concerned with authentic history they already saw the proofs and acknowledged the kills so why you are tireing yourself asking for a proof.

May be one day PAF will issue all the evidences and may be you will hear this even from IAF that they lost a MKI on 27th due to AMRAAM.

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## Bratva

Salza said:


> In which world are you living in ? *He clarified it on the same day infact just in 4 hours after his press conference.* News ticker about this clarification was shown as breaking news in all the news channel on that day. You really need to update yourself with correct information.



Share his clarification and his 4th/5th March kamran khan interview. Since you know more apparently.

In short, Nope He didnt. His Tweet on the evening on 27th feb, His 5 march Interview to Kamran Khan where he stated 2nd pilot was dead. Do you think I dont know all of this.?

He created the confusion deliberately. He was extremely vague. He didn't clarify what his tweet meant when he said we only have 1 pilot in our custody

He put more fuel on fire when he claimed on 5 march Kamran Khan interview second pilot has died

Only in April press conference he took back all of his vague statements and admitted openly he was wrong. Completely wrong.

The only person that needs to be updated is you apparently to understand how his vagueness created issues.


wasileo80 said:


> How can they mix up the pilot recordings when there is a significant time *Gap* of shooting down MKI and Abhinandan Mig-21. Rest is history.



So since June 2019 It is officially out in the open that Pakistan intercepted the communications of IAF. If the recordings are not being made open. Then there is a reason that those recordings are not a strong evidence for SU-30 downing as they are being assumed

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## maverick1977

PAF is very meticulous in giving a kill count to its air warriors without proper citations and evidence. 
There are parameters defined for BVR kill which are not based on pilot releasing its weapons but because of multiple onboard sensors of various air assets. 
If PAF had a policy of showing its kill confirmation from its electronic signatures then rest assure it wouldve shown both Mig 21 and Su30 MKI electronic evidence.


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## wasileo80

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Minimal damage and Huge insult to a country who claim to be super power. i have my doubts that india will ever learn from this mistake they will do it over and over again and then try to cover up with media monkies.
> 
> its not politicians its even their own people who cant see even those who sell F16 said their is no f16 hit by Hindi.


Yes agreed that Indian Govt will never learn because they belongs to a fascist mindset who have human superiority complex just like another 'I". And for their utter dreams, they can do anything to fulfulling their unrealistic goals even the whole earth will come on verge of a nuclear war.

Secondly, not minimal damage. Damage done by PAF and ground forces on that day and night before 27th was huge.
Did anyone noticed that PAF showed only one video of locking the target and then unlock it and guided away from actual target, but what about 5 other targets?
Did the PAF really guided remaining 5 bombs away as well like one they showed to public or those bombs found their mark and caused huge damage? 
"Aqal walon k liye nishaniyan haen".


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## RoshiniVenegal

Not sure what fascist mindset was shown by government. Remember itceas


wasileo80 said:


> Yes agreed that Indian Govt will never learn because they belongs to a fascist mindset who have human superiority complex just like another 'I". And for their utter dreams, they can do anything to fulfulling their unrealistic goals even the whole earth will come on verge of a nuclear war.
> 
> Secondly, not minimal damage. Damage done by PAF and ground forces on that day and night before 27th was huge.
> Did anyone noticed that PAF showed only one video of locking the target and then unlock it and guided away from actual target, but what about 5 other targets?
> Did the PAF really guided remaining 5 bombs away as well like one they showed to public or those bombs found their mark and caused huge damage?
> "Aqal walon k liye nishaniyan haen".


 Not sure what fascist mindset was shown by government. Remember it was done after pulvama attack. As long as there is no proof shown, or of any news coming of huge damage or shooting down of MKI, it is not valid. It is same as India saying it shot down F16. It could be that the other 4 malfunctioned 😁


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## wasileo80

Bratva said:


> So since June 2019 It is officially out in the open that Pakistan intercepted the communications of IAF. If the recordings are not being made open. Then there is a reason that those recordings are not a strong evidence for SU-30 downing as they are being assumed



If you remembered the afternoon of 27th Feb. discussion on forum that there were 2 or 3 personnel who quoted the Air Commodore (R) Kaiser Tufail that he confirmed that both kills were by F-16s and one was a *"big fat boggy". *And even at that time majority of the people were confident that the kills were scored by JF-17. But that proved to be false and the first hand information proved to be correct. And that person also clarify that Air Commodore (R) Sir Kaiser Tufail's son in law participated in the operation. And in couple of days most of the information was out that initially they shot down MKI and during last moments of Operations Swift Retort they downed the Abhi's Mig-21.
So why this again that no proof shown to us for MKI.

What i assume that if there were not abhi's Mig-21 came across LOC and its debris fell into AJK, then surely they will show the proof to public of shooting down MKI. But as we had a clear proof in form of captured pilot and wrechage of Mig-21, that is why PAF didnt showed any electronic proofs due to sensitivity of technology in form of Radar data, missile impact information, range, speed, AoA and etc. of both kills.

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## Salza

Bratva said:


> Share his clarification and his 4th/5th March kamran khan interview. Since you know more apparently.
> 
> In short, Nope He didnt. His Tweet on the evening on 27th feb, His 5 march Interview to Kamran Khan where he stated 2nd pilot was dead. Do you think I dont know all of this.?



On March 5 he said that the pilot possibly died (which obviously means in a crash after being hit by an incoming Pakistani missile) and that happened in Indian side of Kashmir, what he said on Feb 27 later in his tweet was clear enough clarification that there hasn't been any other pilot in Pakistani custody so I don't know what you are trying to read in between the lines. Its only you who seems to be confused.


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## RoshiniVenegal

Salza said:


> On March 5 he said that the pilot possibly died (which obviously means in a crash after being hit by an incoming Pakistani missile) and that happened in Indian side of Kashmir, what he said on Feb 27 later in his tweet was clear enough clarification that there hasn't been any other pilot in Pakistani custody so I don't know what you are trying to read in between the lines. Its only you who seems to be confused.


The pilot that was admitted in Pakistani military hospital possibly died on Indian side of kashmir, very believable indeed.


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## Bratva

Salza said:


> *On March 5 he said that the pilot possibly died (which obviously means in a crash after being hit by an incoming Pakistani missile) and that happened in Indian side of Kashmir,* what he said on Feb 27 later in his tweet was clear enough clarification that there hasn't been any other pilot in Pakistani custody so I don't know what you are trying to read in between the lines. Its only you who seems to be confused.



As expected. Your ignorance is glaringly on display and I expected as much that you didnt hear a single word about what he claimed on Kamran Khan show. Here I'm going to share the video link









Watch exclusive interview of DG ISPR Asif Ghafoor in Kamran Khan's show | Dunya News


Welcome to the official Dunya News channel. Tune into Dunya News to watch some of the most popular shows, Hasb-e-Haal, Mazaaq Raat, On the Front with Kamran Shahid and Minute to minute update of Breaking News, all at one place! Like our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/dunyanews/ Visit...




video.dunyanews.tv





Now kindly tell me what you claimed what he said in the video. Timestamp me where he said that. ?

For your own convenience. Asif Ghafoor claiming with absolute certainty that 2nd pilot died. 0:50-1:05 mark without any "Possible, if's and but's

Dont put words in his mouth. He meant this he meant that. He deliberately caused confusion and vagueness which weakened pakistani stance. If he were straight and truthful from day 1, it would have been much much better for us. !

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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Not sure what fascist mindset was shown by government. Remember it was done after pulvama attack. As long as there is no proof shown, or of any news coming of huge damage or shooting down of MKI, it is not valid. It is same as India saying it shot down F16. It could be that the other 4 malfunctioned 😁


Exactly we want that you people not to belive the huge damage and shooting down an MKI. As i described earlier that shooting down even a Mig-21 was not for public joy or public demolarization (in case of Indian public) but to give message to concerned parties and the message well recieved by those concerned parties. So it dosent matter if general public belive it or not but the real matter of concern is did Bipin and Modi got their medicine or not?




RoshiniVenegal said:


> Not sure what fascist mindset was shown by government. Remember itceas



Well after morning of 27th Feb retaliation by Pakistan, what Indian Govt planned on night of 28th Feb, they planned a missile attack on 6 Pakistani cities and Pakistan retaliated to give response by targetting 18 Indian cities which cause panic through whole world and then world powers stops India to carry on this blunder.
Now you can imagine if India launches missiles on 6 pakistan cities and then Pakistan launched missiles on 18 Indian cities then what would be the outcome of Sub-Continent? Still you says what fascist mindset was shown by that government?
Is that enough or should i have quote more example from your own country?

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## Salza

Bratva said:


> As expected. Your ignorance is glaringly on display and I expected as much that you didnt hear a single word on what he claimed on Kamran Khan show. Here I'm going to share the video link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch exclusive interview of DG ISPR Asif Ghafoor in Kamran Khan's show | Dunya News
> 
> 
> Welcome to the official Dunya News channel. Tune into Dunya News to watch some of the most popular shows, Hasb-e-Haal, Mazaaq Raat, On the Front with Kamran Shahid and Minute to minute update of Breaking News, all at one place! Like our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/dunyanews/ Visit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> video.dunyanews.tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now kindly tell me what you claimed what he said in the video. Timestamp me where he said that. ?
> 
> For your own convenience. Asif Ghafoor claiming with absolute certainty that 2nd pilot died. 0:50-1:05 mark without any "Possible, if's and but's)
> 
> Dont put words in his mouth. He meant this he meant that. He deliberately caused confusion and vagueness which weakened pakistani stance. If he were straight and truthful from day 1, it would have been much much better for us. !



Look, it doesn't' matter what ever happened to the Su30 pilots, we hit their plane that's it. They escaped death like Abhinandhan or died at the site. God knows. But I am pin pointing your post where you said that ISPR didn't gave clarification regarding the other pilots which obviously A. Ghafoor did in few hours time that is, no other pilot in Pakistan's custody. This was always our official stance. This should had put to the rest to all the confusion.


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> Exactly we want that you people not to belive the huge damage and shooting down an MKI. As i described earlier that shooting down even a Mig-21 was not for public joy or public demolarization (in case of Indian public) but to give message to concerned parties and the message well recieved by those concerned parties. So it dosent matter if general public belive it or not but the real matter of concern is did Bipin and Modi got their medicine or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well after morning of 27th Feb retaliation by Pakistan, what Indian Govt planned on night of 28th Feb, they planned a missile attack on 6 Pakistani cities and Pakistan retaliated to give response by targetting 18 Indian cities which cause panic through whole world and then world powers stops India to carry on this blunder.
> Now you can imagine if India launches missiles on 6 pakistan cities and then Pakistan launched missiles on 18 Indian cities then what would be the outcome of Sub-Continent? Still you says what fascist mindset was shown by that government?
> Is that enough or should i have quote more example from your own country?


Hello, 40 of our soldiers died, 26th was response for that, the threat was issued to return our pilot. If your country is attacked retaliating is not fascism. A similar attack on US, Russia or China, what would you think will happen.


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## Bratva

wasileo80 said:


> If you remembered the afternoon of 27th Feb. discussion on forum that there were 2 or 3 personnel who quoted the Air Commodore (R) Kaiser Tufail that he confirmed that both kills were by F-16s and one was a *"big fat boggy". *And even at that time majority of the people were confident that the kills were scored by JF-17. But that proved to be false and the first hand information proved to be correct. And that person also clarify that Air Commodore (R) Sir Kaiser Tufail's son in law participated in the operation. And in couple of days most of the information was out that initially they shot down MKI and during last moments of Operations Swift Retort they downed the Abhi's Mig-21.
> So why this again that no proof shown to us for MKI.
> 
> What i assume that if there were not abhi's Mig-21 came across LOC and its debris fell into AJK, then surely they will show the proof to public of shooting down MKI. But as we had a clear proof in form of captured pilot and wrechage of Mig-21, that is why PAF didnt showed any electronic proofs due to sensitivity of technology in form of Radar data, missile impact information, range, speed, AoA and etc. of both kills.



There is no two opinions about what you said in your post. But Even Kaiser tufail is very careful in claiming SU-30 Kill in his articles. I assume which you have read? 2 articles on 27 FEB SAGA. Kaiser tufail was the guy who told us the Ground controller was a female. Which Indian media finally admitted it was Minty agerwal in August. 

So doesnt it shows that Kaiser Tufail while revealing Abhinandan wingman name, identity of female ground controller is still apprehensive of claiming the 100 % KILL ?


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## masterchief_mirza

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Hello, 40 of our soldiers died, 26th was response for that, the threat was issued to return our pilot. If your country is attacked retaliating is not fascism. A similar attack on US, Russia or China, what would you think will happen.


Your country is not merely fascist, it is quite repulsive to the human condition. Occupation of a nation since 1947, cleansing of its population on ethnoreligious grounds and incarceration of their chosen leaders is entirely an act of fascism. Occupying soldiers and complicit parties in acts of ethnoreligious cleansing always meet the same grizzly fate eventually. Not that long ago, an occupied and cleansed region was liberated against the odds by Azerbaijan. India has taken note, and is panicking at not only the steadfast resolve of Pakistan, but now also the proven military capabilities of Pakistan. Pakistan hasn't forgotten the past crimes against Jammu's people and the ongoing ones against Kashmir's people. India shall reap a bitter harvest for its belligerence.

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## RoshiniVenegal

masterchief_mirza said:


> Your country is not merely fascist, it is quite repulsive to the human condition. Occupation of a nation since 1947, cleansing of its population on ethnoreligious grounds and incarceration of their chosen leaders is entirely an act of fascism. Occupying soldiers and complicit parties in acts of ethnoreligious cleansing always meet the same grizzly fate eventually. Not that long ago, an occupied and cleansed region was liberated against the odds by Azerbaijan. India has taken note, and is panicking at not only the steadfast resolve of Pakistan, but now also the proven military capabilities of Pakistan. Pakistan hasn't forgotten the past crimes against Jammu's people and the ongoing ones against Kashmir's people. India shall reap a bitter harvest for its belligerence.


These are all mere allegations, we can say same thing about you. Pakistan has been sponsoring terrorism on Indian soil, as Ajit Dowel said our policy has changed to Defensive Offence. Who reaps a bitter harvest only time can tell. As of now neither country has the capability to have a decisive victory. Nuclear weopans are always in background.


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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Hello, 40 of our soldiers died, 26th was response for that, the threat was issued to return our pilot. If your country is attacked retaliating is not fascism. A similar attack on US, Russia or China, what would you think will happen.


And your govt. refused to give any actionable evidence that Paksitan was involved in Pulwama and even your govt gave go ahead to launch air strike across International Border? What the hell is that? And what about the recent leaked chat of Arnab? still you are stand on your point. Now slowly facts are coming out that Pulwama was an inside job just like Mumbay attack... Now one of your retired army officer just said that on day of Pulwama Army vacant one of its check post on higher ups order from where the attacker approached to the convoy...dont be a blind followers of patriotism.

According to your definition, Pakistan should turn India into a wasteland up till now in response of state sponse terrorism in Pakistan killing 70 thousand innocent Pakistanis??

Do you people have any shame left in you?

And you think that we were afraid that if Indian launched missile strike against Pakistani cities then we will vanish from the face of the earth??? This fascist mind set i was talking about that your modi and doval brigade thought that if they target 6 Pakistani cities, then there will be no retaliation from Pakistan? and they ignored the fact that milions of people will burn in that exchange of missiles and many cities may wiped out from face of the earth.. but your fascist govt ignord that entirely because they only care about hindutva aka Brahmin era and they dont care about anyone else.. So its a sincere advice to you as well dont think like those cowards, think sensibly and behave like that.


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> And your govt. refused to give any actionable evidence that Paksitan was involved in Pulwama and even your govt gave go ahead to launch air strike across International Border? What the hell is that? And what about the recent leaked chat of Arnab? still you are stand on your point. Now slowly facts are coming out that Pulwama was an inside job just like Mumbay attack... Now one of your retired army officer just said that on day of Pulwama Army vacant one of its check post on higher ups order from where the attacker approached to the convoy...dont be a blind followers of patriotism.
> 
> According to your definition, Pakistan should turn India into a wasteland up till now in response of state sponse terrorism in Pakistan killing 70 thousand innocent Pakistanis??
> 
> Do you people have any shame left in you?
> 
> And you think that we were afraid that if Indian launched missile strike against Pakistani cities then we will vanish from the face of the earth??? This fascist mind set i was talking about that your modi and doval brigade thought that if they target 6 Pakistani cities, then there will be no retaliation from Pakistan? and they ignored the fact that milions of people will burn in that exchange of missiles and many cities may wiped out from face of the earth.. but your fascist govt ignord that entirely because they only care about hindutva aka Brahmin era and they dont care about anyone else.. So its a sincere advice to you as well dont think like those cowards, think sensibly and behave like that.


We all saw what Pakistan government did after giving evidence for Mumbai attacks. For you everything is inside job. I wish Indian spy agency is that competitive to carry out attacks against your military. Nobody threatened to attack 6 cities or will always be military targets not civilian. I can see you are imagining lots of things. When did people getting killed started to be a problem for you. People, army men has been dying in Kashmir, you supported TTP on Afghanistan, even now they are suffering.


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## wasileo80

Bratva said:


> There is no two opinions about what you said in your post. But Even Kaiser tufail is very careful in claiming SU-30 Kill in his articles. I assume which you have read? 2 articles on 27 FEB SAGA. Kaiser tufail was the guy who told us the Ground controller was a female. Which Indian media finally admitted it was Minty agerwal in August.
> 
> So doesnt it shows that Kaiser Tufail while revealing Abhinandan wingman name, identity of female ground controller is still apprehensive of claiming the 100 % KILL ?


Yes i do agree with you but is it compulsory to showed everything on public forums or to keep the records under the belt to play a psychological warfare against enemy. But the matter of fact is that what needs to be done PAF done that and IAF at recieving end recieved with the pinch of salt. 

Let me give you a case study.. In air comabt your wing man is your eyes and ears and your shield as well. And once one of team member is shot down then its normal SOP the other needs to leave the arena as soon as possible before getting shot down as well, as left over member will be on a great disadvantage in that combat.

Now think on this point, if there will be no MKI shot down, will they bugged out or they tried to engage PAF strike or Sweep package.. why they didnt fired a single missile on any of aircraft of PAF package??

Why the other MKI bugged out super sonic (it was recorded on radars, which obviously not to shown on such forums)? only one justification can be given here as his leader got shot down, then there will be no chance for a lone MKI to engage in that lost cause.


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> Yes i do agree with you but is it compulsory to showed everything on public forums or to keep the records under the belt to play a psychological warfare against enemy. But the matter of fact is that what needs to be done PAF done that and IAF at recieving end recieved with the pinch of salt.
> 
> Let me give you a case study.. In air comabt your wing man is your eyes and ears and your shield as well. And once one of team member is shot down then its normal SOP the other needs to leave the arena as soon as possible before getting shot down as well, as left over member will be on a great disadvantage in that combat.
> 
> Now think on this point, if there will be no MKI shot down, will they bugged out or they tried to engage PAF strike or Sweep package.. why they didnt fired a single missile on any of aircraft of PAF package??
> 
> Why the other MKI bugged out super sonic (it was recorded on radars, which obviously not to shown on such forums)? only one justification can be given here as his leader got shot down, then there will be no chance for a lone MKI to engage in that lost cause.


That's not the only justification, the missile and radar warning alert plus as Indian airforce told, couldn't find firing solution since target's was out of range.


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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> We all saw what Pakistan government did after giving evidence for Mumbai attacks. For you everything is inside job. I wish Indian spy agency is that competitive to carry out attacks against your military. Nobody threatened to attack 6 cities or will always be military targets not civilian. I can see you are imagining lots of things. When did people getting killed started to be a problem for you. People, army men has been dying in Kashmir, you supported TTP on Afghanistan, even now they are suffering.


Oh dear, i can asscess that you are very weak in authentic history.. What evidence your indian govt. provide to Pakistan regarding Mumbai attack, The route of approaching the boat to Mumbai, if you people knew the whole route of approaching the boat form Karachi to Mumbai, why didnt your blue water navy stopped that boat? Secondly, you relase a footage of Ajmal Kasab speaking hindi in his statemetn.. now show me any area in Pakistan where Pakistan says Kasab? we dont use Kasab word, thirdly in his statement he said Bhagwan,, now tell me which muslim Pakistan says Bhagwan instead of Khuda or ALLAH.. Last but not the least that those attackers calls to Pakistan to say good bye to their relatives like mother and father?? oh come on is this your IQ level is? that Pakistan send some people to attach Indina main city Mumai and give them Pakistani SIMs to talk to their relatives in Pakistan during that attack???? 

Same evidence your govt provide when Pathankot happens... I mean what the hell you and your billion people are so dumb and deaf that they cannot even think that how can Pakistan send the people across border by giving Pakistani SIMs and allow them to talk back so that they can easily track back to Pakistan??????????? i mean is this what you belive you media stories??????????



RoshiniVenegal said:


> I can see you are imagining lots of things. When did people getting killed started to be a problem for you. People, army men has been dying in Kashmir, you supported TTP on Afghanistan, even now they are suffering.



And i must say dont dig out history as you people are famous in altering historical facts ( Your bollywood movies are big example of this) and let me clear this, history lesson are very bitter and you will run away once you start on this.... TTP were never existed untill around 2005...and its your doval doctrine who create TTP and met with Daesh people in Syria and provided them support to brought in to Afghanistan... And you are talking about offensive defence of Doval, then wait for the time when you realise how your doval's doctrine infact will destroy your own country... wait for that.


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> Oh dear, i can asscess that you are very weak in authentic history.. What evidence your indian govt. provide to Pakistan regarding Mumbai attack, The route of approaching the boat to Mumbai, if you people knew the whole route of approaching the boat form Karachi to Mumbai, why didnt your blue water navy stopped that boat? Secondly, you relase a footage of Ajmal Kasab speaking hindi in his statemetn.. now show me any area in Pakistan where Pakistan says Kasab? we dont use Kasab word, thirdly in his statement he said Bhagwan,, now tell me which muslim Pakistan says Bhagwan instead of Khuda or ALLAH.. Last but not the least that those attackers calls to Pakistan to say good bye to their relatives like mother and father?? oh come on is this your IQ level is? that Pakistan send some people to attach Indina main city Mumai and give them Pakistani SIMs to talk to their relatives in Pakistan during that attack????
> 
> Same evidence your govt provide when Pathankot happens... I mean what the hell you and your billion people are so dumb and deaf that they cannot even think that how can Pakistan send the people across border by giving Pakistani SIMs and allow them to talk back so that they can easily track back to Pakistan??????????? i mean is this what you belive you media stories??????????
> 
> 
> 
> And i must say dont dig out history as you people are famous in altering historical facts ( Your bollywood movies are big example of this) and let me clear this, history lesson are very bitter and you will run away once you start on this.... TTP were never existed untill around 2005...and its your doval doctrine who create TTP and met with Daesh people in Syria and provided them support to brought in to Afghanistan... And you are talking about offensive defence of Doval, then wait for the time when you realise how your doval's doctrine infact will destroy your own country... wait for that.


Yes, now India created TTP 😁, happy to wait.


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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> That's not the only justification, the missile and radar warning alert plus as Indian airforce told, couldn't find firing solution since target's was out of range.


Exactly this is not even the justification, its merely a use case and the people who know the Air Force terminology and role of a wing man, understand what i tried to say.

Secondly, as i mentioned PAF dont want to realae any elctronic proof regarding these kills. And if one day PAF release that info as well then make it sure that your this narative will also go down that PAF aircrafts were out of range and there were no firing solution available...

So save yourself from more disgrace and shame as its better for you. That is why your airforce is silent about everything but your media anchor person aka godi media or internet bakhats create a new story every day out of nothing...


RoshiniVenegal said:


> Yes, now India created TTP 😁, happy to wait.


Think whatever suits you dear but as i said you may see what i said today that this doval doctrine break you internally in due time..


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> Exactly this is not even the justification, its merely a use case and the people who know the Air Force terminology and role of a wing man, understand what i tried to say.
> 
> Secondly, as i mentioned PAF dont want to realae any elctronic proof regarding these kills. And if one day PAF release that info as well then make it sure that your this narative will also go down that PAF aircrafts were out of range and there were no firing solution available...
> 
> So save yourself from more disgrace and shame as its better for you. That is why your airforce is silent about everything but your media anchor person aka godi media or internet bakhats create a new story every day out of nothing...


One guy asks to wait for India to be destroyed, another asks to wait for proof to be released, already 2 years has passed, going to be eternal wait for both cases 😁. I wish I could see both before I pass. Alhamdulilla.


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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> One guy asks to wait for India to be destroyed, another asks to wait for proof to be released, already 2 years has passed going to be eternal wait for both cases 😁



things dont happens over night but yes may be someone will not alive to see that but lets keep a hope... Everything has a time like after shooting down 2 IAF aircrafts in Kargil, time repeats itself in 2019 almost after 20 years... now i dont know you were born in 1999 or may be you will not alive in 2039 to see the change..


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> things dont happens over night but yes may be someone will not alive to see that but lets keep a hope... Everything has a time like after shooting down 2 IAF aircrafts in Kargil, time repeats itself in 2019 almost after 20 years... now i dont know you were born in 1999 or may be you will not alive in 2039 to see the change..


Then I will again be born in 2099


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## The Eagle

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Hello, 40 of our soldiers died, 26th was response for that, the threat was issued to return our pilot. If your country is attacked retaliating is not fascism. A similar attack on US, Russia or China, what would you think will happen.



Threat by India was issued knowing fully that Abhinandan will return given his status of POW. Pakistan in no way, could held him longer or at all given Geneva resolutions. Since he was bound to return, Modi as usual jumped on the gun of threat which was more about to cover Indian losses on that day as compare to return of Abhinanda. Unfortunately, his propaganda worked really well and every Indian was convinced that Abhinandan was returned due to threats. So conclusively, Modi won the election by walking freely after staging Pulwama, falsified & total twisting about Air Space violation & Balakot strikes and losing Indian credibility on 27th Feb as well. 

If any threat or bravado could help, India would have taken back Kalbhushan long ago based upon the falsified narrative about him being businessman Patel and allegedly abducted by Pakistan. Despite of all the paper might & worldly connections; that spy is not coming back to India and you can try to understand the difference between a POW and someone like Kalbhushan that couldn't return at all.

We can go in round and round for years more to come like that but score is obvious...

India lost assets as well as men on that day beside the whatever credibility it had.


RoshiniVenegal said:


> We all saw what Pakistan government did after giving evidence for Mumbai attacks. For you everything is inside job. I wish Indian spy agency is that competitive to carry out attacks against your military. Nobody threatened to attack 6 cities or will always be military targets not civilian. I can see you are imagining lots of things. When did people getting killed started to be a problem for you. People, army men has been dying in Kashmir, you supported TTP on Afghanistan, even now they are suffering.



Inside Job? Curse the Arnab instead of breaking keyboard.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361996877793755140


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## RoshiniVenegal

The Eagle said:


> Threat by India was issued knowing fully that Abhinandan will return given his status of POW. Pakistan in no way, could held him longer or at all given Geneva resolutions. Since he was bound to return, Modi as usual jumped on the gun of threat which was more about to cover Indian losses on that day as compare to return of Abhinanda. Unfortunately, his propaganda worked really well and every Indian was convinced that Abhinandan was returned due to threats. So conclusively, Modi won the election by walking freely after staging Pulwama, falsified & total twisting about Air Space violation & Balakot strikes and losing Indian credibility on 27th Feb as well.
> 
> If any threat or bravado could help, India would have taken back Kalbhushan long ago based upon the falsified narrative about him being businessman Patel and allegedly abducted by Pakistan. Despite of all the paper might & worldly connections; that spy is not coming back to India and you can try to understand the difference between a POW and someone like Kalbhushan that couldn't return at all.
> 
> We can go in round and round for years more to come like that but score is obvious...
> 
> India lost assets as well as men on that day beside the whatever credibility it had.
> 
> 
> Inside Job? Curse the Arnab instead of breaking keyboard.


Kulbushan was abducted by your spy agency, in retaliation of someone whom you think we hold. The possibility of escalation was very clear after 27th, India utilised that to get Abhi released. Imran then dramatically announced release of pilot to avoid escalation.


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## GiG

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361996877793755140


Only if the Indians have the same conventional deterrence mindset





They are in defensive-offensive mode and should be tackled in the same tit-for-tat manner

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## kursed

GiG said:


> These are the terrorism statistics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Global terrorism index 2021 | Statista
> 
> 
> The global terrorism index systematically ranks countries of the world according to their terrorist activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.statista.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The occurrence of the attacks are slowed down but they are still going on(Hazara, Waziristan etc). This is what i said earlier neutralizing Indian assets in Afghanistan will just have an operational impact.
> 
> Second why its parroting indian propaganda? I also suspect your intentions here. Pakistan paraded kulbhusahn to prove Indian state sponsored terrorsim and their continued efforts to destabilize Pakistan.
> 
> My basic argument as stated before is that Pakistanis failed to establish deterrence against Indian state sponsored terrorism which cost us 1000s of lives and billions of economic damage. We have to accept the reality that they are bleeding us militarily and economically.



Not slowed down. They’ve vanished. As of 2020, we are down to start of the war levels of violence in Pak. Something an entire generation of Pakistanis hasn’t seen.

And when I say parroting Indian propaganda, this is exactly what I mean, Pakistan isn’t losing billions in economic damage to India any more. We have stopped the hemorrhaging. And it makes absolutely no sense for Pakistan to go back to old days. It needs to work on its economy and keep picking apart Indian setups within country.

Indians otoh are doing well in trying to finish their economy and their institutions off, Pakistan is much better off in not intervening at all and let them.

As history suggests, fascists will take the country down with them.

Poor Doval! All he can do these days is yap! And see his setups get taken apart as soon as they’re put into play.


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## The Eagle

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Kulbushan was abducted by your spy agency, in retaliation of someone whom you think we hold. The possibility of escalation was very clear after 27th, India utilised that to get Abhi released. Imran then dramatically announced release of pilot to avoid escalation.



Let me cut in short because I am unable to counter your intellect on such high level which is more of a nationalistic approach as compare to realistic. Here is a clip of Abhijit and I am not sharing this for Thunder. Just ignore the Thunder comments but pay attention that how much Pakistan knows about IAF. If you could get the drift, you will surely understand things being claimed by Indian Establishment as compare to things being done on the ground.






Enjoy

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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Kulbushan was abducted by your spy agency, in retaliation of someone whom you think we hold. The possibility of escalation was very clear after 27th, India utilised that to get Abhi released. Imran then dramatically announced release of pilot to avoid escalation.


Once an Indian always an indian, behaves as an indian where ever he/she will go. Low on IQ, less understanding of events, away from Facts, living in fool's paradise, believing on lies, not to use their brain to understand the logic and etc.
And you proved once again that surely you are one of them...... Welcome to PDF.


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## Jackdaws

And round and round we go.


wasileo80 said:


> Oh dear, i can asscess that you are very weak in authentic history.. What evidence your indian govt. provide to Pakistan regarding Mumbai attack, The route of approaching the boat to Mumbai, if you people knew the whole route of approaching the boat form Karachi to Mumbai, why didnt your blue water navy stopped that boat? Secondly, you relase a footage of Ajmal Kasab speaking hindi in his statemetn.. now show me any area in Pakistan where Pakistan says Kasab? we dont use Kasab word, thirdly in his statement he said Bhagwan,, now tell me which muslim Pakistan says Bhagwan instead of Khuda or ALLAH.. Last but not the least that those attackers calls to Pakistan to say good bye to their relatives like mother and father?? oh come on is this your IQ level is? that Pakistan send some people to attach Indina main city Mumai and give them Pakistani SIMs to talk to their relatives in Pakistan during that attack????
> 
> Same evidence your govt provide when Pathankot happens... I mean what the hell you and your billion people are so dumb and deaf that they cannot even think that how can Pakistan send the people across border by giving Pakistani SIMs and allow them to talk back so that they can easily track back to Pakistan??????????? i mean is this what you belive you media stories??????????
> 
> 
> 
> And i must say dont dig out history as you people are famous in altering historical facts ( Your bollywood movies are big example of this) and let me clear this, history lesson are very bitter and you will run away once you start on this.... TTP were never existed untill around 2005...and its your doval doctrine who create TTP and met with Daesh people in Syria and provided them support to brought in to Afghanistan... And you are talking about offensive defence of Doval, then wait for the time when you realise how your doval's doctrine infact will destroy your own country... wait for that.


Yes yes. Everyone is lying about 26/11. The Indians. The Americans. The Pakistani Prime Minister. The Israelis. Even the Japanese who helped traced the engine of the boat back to a shop in Pakistan.


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> Once an Indian always an indian, behaves as an indian where ever he/she will go. Low on IQ, less understanding of events, away from Facts, living in fool's paradise, believing on lies, not to use their brain to understand the logic and etc.
> And you proved once again that surely you are one of them...... Welcome to PDF.


Once a Pakistani always a Pakistani, high IQ, behaves exemplary, analyses every situation correctly and only stick to truth and facts, above all, all are fair and handsome.

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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Once a Pakistani always a Pakistani, high IQ, behaves exemplary, analyses every situation correctly and only stick to truth and facts, above all, all are fair and handsome.


Dear if you can prove me wrong logically i wil accept but if not then learn to embrase the truth with dignity and pride. The prople who learned from their mistakes are known to be successfull but if someone stick to the same mindset and commit same mistake again and again what others can do to correct that person???


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## RoshiniVenegal

wasileo80 said:


> Dear if you can prove me wrong logically i wil accept but if not then learn to embrase the truth with dignity and pride. The prople who learned from their mistakes are known to be successfull but if someone stick to the same mindset and commit same mistake again and again what others can do to correct that person???


What mistake did we make? How do you know what truth is? We gave dossier on Mumbai attacks, we gave evidence of radio intercepts, satellite communications multiple agencies were involved in investigation (US, UK, Israel) etc. So no more supplying of evidence. You very well know you have terrorist camps and you sponsor terrorists. 
In South Asia only solution is be happy and content with whatever we have. I dia will never give Kashmir, if no terrorism means security forces will be confined to border. People can live peacefully away from terrorists and security forces. No country has seeded land other than war. Now war is too risky for both.


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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> What mistake did we make? How do you know what truth is? We gave dossier on Mumbai attacks, we gave evidence of radio intercepts, satellite communications multiple agencies were involved in investigation (US, UK, Israel) etc. So no more supplying of evidence. You very well know you have terrorist camps and you sponsor terrorists.
> In South Asia only solution is be happy and content with whatever we have. I dia will never give Kashmir, if no terrorism means security forces will be confined to border. People can live peacefully away from terrorists and security forces. No country has seeded land other than war. Now war is too risky for both.


Your wishful dreams that India is a peace loving country and mother of all evil is Pakistan.
As i mentioned earlier once an Indian always an Indian.. This is what you believe because your govt. your media portray Pakistan like that but reality is different. Kulbhuson is a prime example... Now you will say again that Pakistan agency abducted him from Iran,,,, Now so many question arises there why a serving Indian Navy Commander doing business in Chabahar and why the hell he had passport with a fake name and many more questions but as you are indian you will not accept it because it will hurt your ego...So its useless to talk to you as you will never accept.

And what you are talking about that you give dosier to World power with proofs? well Pakistan presented dosiers number of times in UN and other powers of world. So as per your definition this also proved India is a terroririst state. Do you agree to this as per your logic????

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## wasileo80

RoshiniVenegal said:


> India is definitely a peace loving country, we are very possibly supporting Ballochistan freedom movement but we won't support or anything like you did in Mumbai. Our wasn't a unilateral investigation, US, UK and Israel helped, they all know the root. Why is Pakistan in FATF grey list? Why is I dia not in list? We suffered for 20, 30years before we changed our policy, but it is still very limited. We have huge fence on Loc for a reason, you are building one on Afghan border, obviously you found it is efficient.


You are far far away from the on ground realities.... i would recommend you to visit other threads on this forum and you will see so many evidences of India's state sponsor terrorism in balochistan, in KPK, in karachi and in Punjab.. Even the photos of terrorists who killed innocent people in Balochistan in karachi treated in New Delhi hospitals... what else you wanted to show as evidence...

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## Windjammer

[/QUOTE]


RoshiniVenegal said:


> India is definitely a peace loving country, we are very possibly supporting Ballochistan freedom movement but we won't support or anything like you did in Mumbai. Our wasn't a unilateral investigation, US, UK and Israel helped, they all know the root. Why is Pakistan in FATF grey list? Why is I dia not in list? We suffered for 20, 30years before we changed our policy, but it is still very limited. *We have huge fence on Loc for a reason, you are building one on Afghan border, obviously you found it is efficient.*


But we don't always blame others for our troubles however every time a Basanti even suffers miscarriage the echo chamber starts blaming ISI or Pakistan.

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## Cookie Monster

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Kulbushan was abducted by your spy agency, in retaliation of someone whom you think we hold. The possibility of escalation was very clear after 27th, India utilised that to get Abhi released. Imran then dramatically announced release of pilot to avoid escalation.


Ur idiotic logic is not a surprise...I see many Indian trolls with such low IQ. As pointed out before...Abhinandan was a POW...and hence he had to be released as per Geneva convention. Indian threat of missile attacks was countered by Pak's own threats of retaliating missile strikes with missile strikes. U r relating the two incidents to create an imaginary victory for urself. By that reasoning one could relate any two incidents...and declare one as the cause of the other. I'm sure there were hundreds of Indians who farted just before Abhinandan's release...use ur idiotic reasoning there as well and claim that Pakistan got scared by those farting Indians and decided to release Abhinandan.
@masterchief_mirza look at this shiny new account this guy has made...let's make bets on how soon it gets banned.

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## RoshiniVenegal

But we don't always blame others for our troubles however every time a Basanti even suffers miscarriage the echo chamber starts blaming ISI or Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
You can't do that when you clearly knows who caused Basantis pregnancy. You fear your wife is going to catch you.


Cookie Monster said:


> Ur idiotic logic is not a surprise...I see many Indian trolls with such low IQ. As pointed out before...Abhinandan was a POW...and hence he had to be released as per Geneva convention. Indian threat of missile attacks was countered by Pak's own threats of retaliating missile strikes with missile strikes. U r relating the two incidents to create an imaginary victory for urself. By that reasoning one could relate any two incidents...and declare one as the cause of the other. I'm sure there were hundreds of Indians who farted just before Abhinandan's release...use ur idiotic reasoning there as well and claim that Pakistan got scared by those farting Indians and decided to release Abhinandan.
> @masterchief_mirza look at this shiny new account this guy has made...let's make bets on how soon it gets banned.


You mean to say we are all functioning based on Geneva convention, UN charter of human rights, war etc. Sending trained terrorists across is by which Geneva convention? Pakistan threatened of retaliation too, we both are scared of each other which is what is preventing an all out war. Releasing Abhinabdan was the easiest thing to do for de-escalation.


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## masterchief_mirza

RoshiniVenegal said:


> These are all mere allegations, we can say same thing about you. Pakistan has been sponsoring terrorism on Indian soil, as Ajit Dowel said our policy has changed to Defensive Offence. Who reaps a bitter harvest only time can tell. As of now neither country has the capability to have a decisive victory. Nuclear weopans are always in background.


Umm, actually your allegations and attempts to malign Pakistan confuse me. 

In 1947, which princely state did Pakistan occupy forcibly without negotiation and against the will of its people? Where did Pakistan strong arm any state chief into (a) perpetrating a premeditated act of ethnoreligious genocide to alter demographic reality, and (b) to accede in a particular direction against the will of his people even when the option of remaining independent existed as per the British mandate?

Never mind JnK. Shall we discuss Junagadh and Hyderabad also, if only to highlight the double standards that your kind indulge in so liberally?

Terrorism shmerrorism. Civilians who are oppressed and forced to relinquish their democratic rights to political representation will always revolt. This isn't "terrorism", tera chacha has taught you a new word that you people vomit at any opportunity. 

Anyone, anywhere, regardless of religion, will always revolt against such a litany of human rights abuses, massacres, overextension of police powers, violation of democracy, election rigging and repression of freedom of movement/speech/communication/protest. The victims of Indian terrorism have been waiting for justice since 1947.

Kindly take your false equivalencies elsewhere and peddle it to those who are similarly brainwashed by their own state level propaganda.


RoshiniVenegal said:


> Balochistan freedom movement has been supported to an extend in retaliation to your support for Kashmir terrorists but not anywhere else. Photos of terrorists treated in Delhi is a joke, from Balochistan thry came to Delhi?



It is common knowledge that BLA terrorists have political and medical support networks in mainland India. Your own people would laugh at you for believing otherwise. 









Who are Baloch Liberation Army? Insurgents who killed 30 in Pakistan in last one week


The province of Balochistan in Pakistan has been witness to a violent, separatist movement for the past seven decades.




www.google.com





Why not simply share in the same pride that various Indian commentators - from Maj Gaurav to The Hindu newspaper - have espoused towards these terrorists and claim ownership? They are a somewhat effective irregular fighting force. India can take a degree of credit for their capabilities. Why are you so ashamed of them?

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## Mrc

BTW if there was no su 30 downed than why a SAR heli was sent in air (the one that was shot down)???

Caz abhinonedone had clearly crossed into pak territory and with PAF jets already holding the air space there was no chance to infiltrate and exfiltrate plus you need a fix on pilots position which abhi could not give as he was been thrashed around by civilians...


So why did mi 35 v5 search and rescue take to air with a special forces team in a middle of an aerial fight where su 30 and m 2000s bugged out?? 



. There must have been downed pilots on Indian side clearly


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## Cookie Monster

RoshiniVenegal said:


> You mean to say we are all functioning based on Geneva convention, UN charter of human rights, war etc. Sending trained terrorists across is by which Geneva convention? Pakistan threatened of retaliation too, we both are scared of each other which is what is preventing an all out war. Releasing Abhinabdan was the easiest thing to do for de-escalation.


Oh look another brilliant reasoning u pulled out from ur behind. Tell me has Pakistan ever withheld POWs against Geneva conventions? No

Now how about u answer these questions below...
1) If India is so mighty and Pakistan is so scared...why didn't Pakistan just quietly take it when India carried out air strikes? Why did Pakistan retaliate with full force and bomb "mighty India"? Where was this "fear of India"?

2) If India was so mighty...why did India not strike back after PAF bombed Indian territory, shot down ur jet, and captured ur pilot? Why quietly take it without retaliation if India is so strong and Pak is so weak? Pakistan didn't take Indian intrusion and bombing sitting down and not only retaliated but announced it before hand...surely mighty India can do better right? So where had this "might" gone?

3) If India used threats of missile strikes to secure the release of Abhinandan...and Pakistan got scared and decided to bow down to Indian demands...why did India not use that opportunity to secure the release of Kulbhushan Jadhav? Or better yet...add in the whole Azad Kashmir and GB in the demands as well? So was it just bad bargaining? Or is it perhaps ur argument is pure BS to begin with?

4) Now coming back to this topic of "terrorism" u keep crying about...
...so why is it that when militants attack India...it must be Pakistan who is funding and training them...
...and when the militant attacks happen in Pakistan...it must then be martians who are behind it? Tell me where their funding is coming from? U r delusional to think that India is not involved in sponsoring these types of elements in Pakistan...both countries have been doing this against each other for decades.

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## RoshiniVenegal

Cookie Monster said:


> Oh look another brilliant reasoning u pulled out from ur behind. Tell me has Pakistan ever withheld POWs against Geneva conventions? No
> 
> Now how about u answer these questions below...
> 1) If India is so mighty and Pakistan is so scared...why didn't Pakistan just quietly take it when India carried out air strikes? Why did Pakistan retaliate with full force and bomb "mighty India"? Where was this "fear of India"?
> 
> 2) If India was so mighty...why did India not strike back after PAF bombed Indian territory, shot down ur jet, and captured ur pilot? Why quietly take it without retaliation if India is so strong and Pak is so weak? Pakistan didn't take Indian intrusion and bombing sitting down and not only retaliated but announced it before hand...surely mighty India can do better right? So where had this "might" gone?
> 
> 3) If India used threats of missile strikes to secure the release of Abhinandan...and Pakistan got scared and decided to bow down to Indian demands...why did India not use that opportunity to secure the release of Kulbhushan Jadhav? Or better yet...add in the whole Azad Kashmir and GB in the demands as well? So was it just bad bargaining? Or is it perhaps ur argument is pure BS to begin with?
> 
> 4) Now coming back to this topic of "terrorism" u keep crying about...
> ...so why is it that when militants attack India...it must be Pakistan who is funding and training them...
> ...and when the militant attacks happen in Pakistan...it must then be martians who are behind it? Tell me where their funding is coming from? U r delusional to think that India is not involved in sponsoring these types of elements in Pakistan...both countries have been doing this against each other for decades.


Please read my other responses, where did I say India is mighty, I told that issuing threats was in a different circumstance than that of Kulbushan. India started support very late but there is a limit , never know when these snakes will turn against us, like a faction of TTP turning against you.


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## masterchief_mirza

RoshiniVenegal said:


> 1947 nobody took anything forcefully, King ceded to Indian union sighting Pakistani forces advancing. We merely stopped you from taking whole Kashmir. Junagadh and Hyderabad had sizable Hindu population in fact majority was Hindus. Yes civilians will revolt against oppression like in Baluchistan. How many Baluchistan youths disappeared in last 40 years? What is the percentage of growth of minority communities in India and Pakistan after 19 47?
> You should come and visit Hyderabad and Junagadh, people living in harmony and peace. Thankfully they don't share border with Pakistan, otherwise - - - 😁. Once the British left who is going to listen to them. I have nothing to say regarding your rant about genocide etc, you very well know such things never happened in India.
> So what word did your chacha teach you? 'World peace' I guess 🤣.
> We don't train Balochistan fighters. There is nothing to be proud of, any one with reasonable health can easily be trained to use weopans. Passing 10th grade or getting a degree is much more difficult. I don't support violence in any form or shape. Kashmir was heaven until the 80s. Only after Pakistan decided to take revenge for 71,which was in turn finishing the unfinished business of 65, Kashmir became hell. If you had any consideration for people of Kashmir you won't send in World Peace.


The dogra had no authority to accede to India against the will of his people. He no longer had the confidence of his people. 

Nor did he have the confidence of Mountbatten interestingly enough.

“It is my Government's wish that as soon as law and order have been restored in 
Jammu and Kashmir and her soil cleared of the invader, the question of the State's accession 
should be settled by a reference to the people”.

All educated individuals who held any sort of stake in the future of JnK's people recognised the basic reality that the people themselves should decide on their own accession.

Yet some idiots who cannot read beyond their sanghee university syllabus still believe that all that matters is an irrelevant ceremonial figurehead who waved a bit of paper around (itself written by obviously partial Indians), as though this paper somehow grants authority over people simply because Delhi said it does. Such delusions cannot be helped or treated unfortunately, other than through an act of simple mercy killing of such defective individuals.

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## Cookie Monster

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Please read my other responses, where did I say India is mighty, I told that issuing threats was in a different circumstance than that of Kulbushan.


First u didn't answer any of my questions...secondly by saying that India threatened Pakistan into releasing Abhinandan u r implying that Pakistan is weak and India is super strong that it was able to strong arm Pakistan.

Hence why I posed those questions that u r trying hard not to answer. Here I'll post them again...let's see if u avoid answering again...
1) If India is so mighty and Pakistan is so scared...why didn't Pakistan just quietly take it when India carried out air strikes? Why did Pakistan retaliate with full force and bomb "mighty India"? Where was this "fear of India"?

2) If India was so mighty...why did India not strike back after PAF bombed Indian territory, shot down ur jet, and captured ur pilot? Why quietly take it without retaliation if India is so strong and Pak is so weak? Pakistan didn't take Indian intrusion and bombing sitting down and not only retaliated but announced it before hand...surely mighty India can do better right? So where had this "might" gone?

3) If India used threats of missile strikes to secure the release of Abhinandan...and Pakistan got scared and decided to bow down to Indian demands...why did India not use that opportunity to secure the release of Kulbhushan Jadhav? Or better yet...add in the whole Azad Kashmir and GB in the demands as well? So was it just bad bargaining? Or is it perhaps ur argument is pure BS to begin with?

4) Now coming back to this topic of "terrorism" u keep crying about...
...so why is it that when militants attack India...it must be Pakistan who is funding and training them...
...and when the militant attacks happen in Pakistan...it must then be martians who are behind it? Tell me where their funding is coming from? U r delusional to think that India is not involved in sponsoring these types of elements in Pakistan...both countries have been doing this against each other for decades.
--> u answered(if we can call it an answer)
_"India started support very late but there is a limit , never know when these snakes will turn against us, like a faction of TTP turning against you."_

So where exactly do these militant factions attacking Pakistanis...get their funding from? Which country is at odds with Pakistan? Angola? Namibia? Some country in the neighborhood perhaps? Sri Lanka? What about Bhutan? Oh I know maybe China hatched a nefarious plan to invest billions in CPEC in Pak and then turned around to fund some terrorists that also attack its own Chinese engineers...
...if it completely escaped u...the above is sarcasm. Kulbhushan Jadhav is living proof of India funding anti Pak militant groups. But u can keep denying it and continue to be a hypocrite...that's very much expected of u.

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## Cookie Monster

masterchief_mirza said:


> The dogra had no authority to accede to India against the will of his people. He no longer had the confidence of his people.
> 
> Nor did he have the confidence of Mountbatten interestingly enough.
> 
> “It is my Government's wish that as soon as law and order have been restored in
> Jammu and Kashmir and her soil cleared of the invader, the question of the State's accession
> should be settled by a reference to the people”.
> 
> All educated individuals who held any sort of stake in the future of JnK's people recognised the basic reality that the people themselves should decide on their own accession.
> 
> Yet some idiots who cannot read beyond their sanghee university syllabus still believe that all that matters is an irrelevant ceremonial figurehead who waved a bit of paper around (itself written by obviously partial Indians), as though this paper somehow grants authority over people simply because Delhi said it does. Such delusions cannot be helped or treated unfortunately, other than through an act of simple mercy killing of such defective individuals.


U omitted the hypocrisy in his reasoning...the reverse situation occurred in Junagadh...where the Muslim ruler had acceded to Pakistan...but the majority of the population was Hindu. On this pretext India invaded and captured it...and held a plebiscite to then be able to say "the people wanted to be with India".

Tagging the hypocrite here so he can read the above @RoshiniVenegal
So which is it then? Is the instrument of accession the abiding document? According to this u must give Junagadh to Pakistan...

...or is it that the invading country holds a plebiscite in the invaded territory not recognizing the instrument of accession?
According to this Pakistan has the right to invade Kashmir and the instrument of accession that India cites is invalid.

Oh wait I know...u r gonna go with the hypocritical option and bend logic and reason.

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## masterchief_mirza

Cookie Monster said:


> U omitted the hypocrisy in his reasoning...the reverse situation occurred in Junagadh...where the Muslim ruler had acceded to Pakistan...but the majority of the population was Hindu. On this pretext Indian invaded and captured it...and held a plebiscite to then be able to say "the people wanted to be with India".
> 
> Tagging the hypocrite here so he can read the above @RoshiniVenegal
> So which is it then? Is the instrument of accession the abiding document? According to this u must give Junagadh to Pakistan...
> ...or is that the invading country holds a plebiscite in the invaded territory not recognizing the instrument of accession?
> According to this Pakistan has the right to invade Kashmir and the instrument of accession that India cites is invalid.
> 
> Oh wait I know...u r gonna go with the hypocritical option and bend logic and reason.


Indeed. Junagadh has been mentioned to our friend previously in my earlier post. His response was that the people are happy there so nothing else matters - naturally this is a contradiction of the supposed rate limiting step in Kashmir; if the people AREN'T happy, then will their grievances be taken into account?

It's constant b.s. with these people - inventing a new justification every day, which directly contradicts the justification elsewhere. Instrument of Accession or raj's will is all that matters here, but people's happiness is all that matters there.

Such people who live their entire lives through outdated chanakiya fail to realise that the discerning reader these days knows what was said yesterday about such and such a place - indeed we record history meticulously now. The era where chanakiya used to work as viable state level policy through deception is long gone. It's akin to some call centre functionary trying to scam you with a decade old script.

These are the eternal blessings of amateurism.

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## RoshiniVenegal

So where exactly do these militant factions attacking Pakistanis...get their funding from? Which country is at odds with Pakistan? Angola? Namibia? Some country in the neighborhood perhaps? Sri Lanka? What about Bhutan? Oh I know maybe China hatched a nefarious plan to invest billions in CPEC in Pak and then turned around to fund some terrorists that also attack its own Chinese engineers...
...if it completely escaped u...the above is sarcasm. Kulbhushan Jadhav is living proof of India funding anti Pak militant groups. But u can keep denying it and continue to be a hypocrite...that's very much expected of u.
[/QUOTE]




1) Pakistan took it very quietly saying only trees and crows . This was a major oppurtunity for Pakistan if it wanted to escalate instead it played low. 5 diffused bombs , dropped away from target is full force for you? Quick and restricted visit to bombed madrasa after 40 days says something . All locals were instructd not to talk anything and camera never zoomed to near by areas .Just showed some restricted views.

2) War was never on cards , if it was, first strike would be on military not on a known terrorist training camp. Shooting down jet and taking POW is part and parcel of any skirmish , war , these are not preplanned right ? Anything can happen in a skirmish. Pakistan announced 'time and place of it choosing' the usual statement from both sides.
3) Kb Yadav was a different issue altogether , you can ask why not ask for all prisoners , yes why not entire Pakistan , not practical right? Securing his release was priority , we could do the same you did with Kulbu but then the game would get very dirty. Kidnappings , threats etc. Karachi cantonment wasblacked out for a reason. Remember moview 'Kathal Ki Raat' , see that. But I have to warn you , it is adults only.
4) You forgot that TTP was funded by US and they had opium. Now that a faction of TTP is against you after you bombed Waziristan and stuff , they still get funding from opium trade and also Arab countries. We will never fund TTP. Your army shoud have thought about that before bombing TTP. But now things are settled . There are lots of dead and living proofs of Pakistan funding terror in India.


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## RoshiniVenegal

masterchief_mirza said:


> Indeed. Junagadh has been mentioned to our friend previously in my earlier post. His response was that the people are happy there so nothing else matters - naturally this is a contradiction of the supposed rate limiting step in Kashmir; if the people AREN'T happy, then will their grievances be taken into account?
> 
> It's constant b.s. with these people - inventing a new justification every day, which directly contradicts the justification elsewhere. Instrument of Accession or raj's will is all that matters here, but people's happiness is all that matters there.
> 
> Such people who live their entire lives through outdated chanakiya fail to realise that the discerning reader these days knows what was said yesterday about such and such a place - indeed we record history meticulously now. The era where chanakiya used to work as viable state level policy through deception is long gone. It's akin to some call centre functionary trying to scam you with a decade old script.
> 
> These are the eternal blessings of amateurism.


If people aren't happy all reasonable grievances will be taken in to account. We can't let Kashmir to be an independent state since too much blood has been given for it, other states like Tamilnadu can demand independence. 
Freedom should stem from your mind. You might live in the most free society, but you can still be a prisoner of your thought. If you live in US and think that my freedom an happen only if live under Shariya law, you will be a prisoner for life. Now this is what the separatists are tryng to achieve. People have left highly paid jobs, luxurious life to join ISIS, they were a prisoner to their thoughts. 
Now in a free world if everyone achieve complete freedom, self realisation, we no longer need boundaries, we realise we are one species and we need to stand for each other.

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## Cookie Monster

RoshiniVenegal said:


> 1) Pakistan took it very quietly saying only trees and crows . This was a major oppurtunity for Pakistan if it wanted to escalate instead it played low. 5 diffused bombs , dropped away from target is full force for you? Quick and restricted visit to bombed madrasa after 40 days says something . All locals were instructd not to talk anything and camera never zoomed to near by areas .Just showed some restricted views.
> 
> 2) War was never on cards , if it was, first strike would be on military not on a known terrorist training camp. Shooting down jet and taking POW is part and parcel of any skirmish , war , these are not preplanned right ? Anything can happen in a skirmish. Pakistan announced 'time and place of it choosing' the usual statement from both sides.
> 3) Kb Yadav was a different issue altogether , you can ask why not ask for all prisoners , yes why not entire Pakistan , not practical right? Securing his release was priority , we could do the same you did with Kulbu but then the game would get very dirty. Kidnappings , threats etc. Karachi cantonment wasblacked out for a reason. Remember moview 'Kathal Ki Raat' , see that. But I have to warn you , it is adults only.
> 4) You forgot that TTP was funded by US and they had opium. Now that a faction of TTP is against you after you bombed Waziristan and stuff , they still get funding from opium trade and also Arab countries. We will never fund TTP. Your army shoud have thought about that before bombing TTP. But now things are settled . There are lots of dead and living proofs of Pakistan funding terror in India.


Oh man...the more I try to shove ur face in reality...the further u run into the rabbit hole of ur delusions. I'm done wasting my time.

Yes...Pakistan is super weak...India is mighty...it was purely out of generosity that India "let" Pakistan bomb Indian territory, shoot down IAF aircraft, and capture Abhinandan.
Also all terrorists attacking India are funded/trained/supported by Pakistan...while all terrorists attacking Pakistan are self sufficient. India never does any such things against its neighbors...Tamil Tigers who? What is this Mukti Bahini ppl speak of? All non sense of course. India is a peace loving nation, the largest democracy on earth and the next superpower that is about to over take the US(or already did in 2012)...
...chant all this first thing in the morning then rinse urself with a quick shower of gow mutr.

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## SQ8

Able archer is a good read to see how intel from different sources paints a picture of enemy intent. Movement of assets down to the electronic pods and change in patrol patterns.. all of i

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## Sheikh Rauf

RoshiniVenegal said:


> Government was forced to take action against terrorists plus boost election prospect. Warcwas never on cards. Learn from mistakes only time will tell. Cover ups are done by both nations.


we havent lost any plane or intrude it was india who came to attack their were not terrorist it was just election stunt as we all know what india do before election we dont play indian card cuz we dont have to but indian parties seems like dont have anything els to play with .. so muniplating things wont help accept the reality. 
india is running by terrorist party.


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## Mentee

Rafael said:


> Alhamdulillah , Alhuamdulillah Alhamdulillah!



for Him is the Dominion, and for Him is all Praise

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## Ghessan

my dear friends, @Cookie Monster @Myth_buster_1 @Windjammer @wasileo80 @masterchief_mirza others and Mods,
i would request you all to not to reply to this dirty lot.
since yesterday, first this @Mack Truck started and handed over the filthy job to @RoshiniVenegal

you keep replying them they will keep coming with shameless thoughts and brainless logic. do they deserve even to reply? they only deserve to be ignored. let them bark and they will be quite when nobody gives a shit.
it is only when they are replied it gives them more reason to shit here and there.

do not let anyone ruin this thread particularly at the second anniversary of 27 Feb. they are deliberately doing the mess.

their stance is known from the beginning when they started. those grown up with cheap mentality and upbringing cannot be expected to share some good in the pubic. they are born with no dignity so avoid them.

i would request mods to please kick such trash our of the forum atonce, we cannot hide behind "every one has the right to speak" thing at all in particular circumstances. how can we let them ruin this thread with given importance or even any?
thank you,

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## wasileo80

Ghessan said:


> my dear friends, @Cookie Monster @Myth_buster_1 @Windjammer @wasileo80 @masterchief_mirza others and Mods,
> i would request you all to not to reply to this dirty lot.
> since yesterday, first this @Mack Truck started and handed over the filthy job to @RoshiniVenegal
> 
> you keep replying them they will keep coming with shameless thoughts and brainless logic. do they deserve even to reply? they only deserve to be ignored. let them bark and they will be quite when nobody gives a shit.
> it is only when they are replied it gives them more reason to shit here and there.
> 
> do not let anyone ruin this thread particularly at the second anniversary of 27 Feb. they are deliberately doing the mess.
> 
> their stance is known from the beginning when they started. those grown up with cheap mentality and upbringing cannot be expected to share some good in the pubic. they are born with no dignity so avoid them.
> 
> i would request mods to please kick such trash our of the forum atonce, we cannot hide behind "every one has the right to speak" thing at all in particular circumstances. how can we let them ruin this thread with given importance or even any?
> thank you,


Acknowledged!

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## Imran Khan



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## The Eagle

RoshiniVenegal said:


> We can't let Kashmir to be an independent state since too much blood has been given for it, other states like Tamilnadu can demand independence.



You may be a sneaky debater attempting to take a veiled shot but trust me, you are not very good at it. Only Kashmiris blood has been shed in Kashmir and there are still unmarked graves yet to be investigated. Since the total black out by India denying any access to UN; it is yet not documented but still, Kashmir is a disputed territory given the UN Resolution so whatever claims India makes to feel good, doesn't carry any weight in real world at all. No one, I mean not even the closest & dearest fraands of India acknowledges India's claims but due to personal interests and strategical nature relations to counter China, most of them hypocrites keeps mum over the issue which doesn't provides royalty to India for Kashmir at all. Tamils or Assamis; there is a lot happening but since Pakistan is not involved, the less has been discussed but that doesn't mean that its not happening. The Dalit issue new as they are facing renowned threats by BJP side directly. 

There's only Balochistan terrorist movement sponsored by India and again, no one in the world ever supported India's interests into Balochistan. In-fact, From Hagel to Mattis, they clearly pointed India's ill intentions against Pakistan through the land of Afghanistan. While referring to Mumbai, that so-called Ajmal Kassab was asking for forgiveness from his bhagwan on the death bed. Indian story of 26/11 is another prefix for India's interests only and only. Since, you are very interested for betterment of India and I give you enough time to read something else, here is a starter pack for you... Given the pattern of attacks inside India; had it been an Arnab back then, we will surely be discussing yet another leak about 26/11 failed job. Pulwama false flag has exposed everything clearly. Modi types have enough excuses to blame Pakistan in a certain warfare but have no credibility ever to come up with something to prove the reason as to why such a hate which led to lies and being busted every time.

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## ghazi52



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## Trango Towers

The Eagle said:


> India claimed to shoot down an F-16 by MiG-21.
> _le F-16 operators world wide: _Kese kar lete hu bhai.
> 
> Abhinandan himself clearly said that he was looking for a target but he was struck with an AMRAAM by PAF. The man never spoke again.... not a single claim for shooting down the F-16 even when he make it back to India. Not till date.... only, online warriors & internet Air Marshalls been convinced to soothe the pain. This argument is dead in history with a title of "Indian Jokes" as usual.


Abhinandan has more integrity than all of India. He said in the interview that he will not speak badly of Pakistan and he hasn't. Infact he hasn't said a single lie. That man deserves respect from us. 
Rest of India can open defecate

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Trailer23 said:


> Found this gem on *YouTube*. Just click 'Play'.
> 
> *Q.* So which IAF jet had a technical snag that it crashed Budgam? That's odd, isn't that where the Mi-17 was shot down too by their own Battery Operator... Makes you wonder (again), where the hell was that Mi-17 headed in the first place?
> 
> Note: He almost said '*Crashed*'.



Superb find brother.

We need to collect all these little bits of clips and join them together.


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## ghazi52



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## White and Green with M/S

Telescopic Sight said:


> I don't know if you chose to reply thus as a reaction to someone else's post or if these are your genuine beliefs, but I sincerely feel that this post is a big comedown from your usually excellent comments.
> 
> Not that my opinion matters to you, of course
> 
> But I'd hate for a classy gent like you, ex-army and all, to sound like the majority of the 15 year old posters here !
> 
> Or should I be grateful that you didn't add claims such as " israeli pilot body returned secretly by Pak" , "FC-1 locked BVR missiles on IAF" ," IA COAS escapes death " and my favorite " thousands of Indian artillery shells now inoperative due to fuse damage" ;-) ?!?!?!


welcome you false flag indian your own media reports that you vice IA chief of the northern command had have leave few hours before attack and there was no Israeli or second Indian pilots on 27/2/2019


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## Pakistan Space Agency

Mack Truck said:


> Here https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...en-different-pm-modi/articleshow/68254028.cms
> 
> "If the Air Force had Rafale today, the result would have been different. *Nobody from our side would have been hurt** if the IAF had Rafale at the time of air strike,*" Modi said.



Ab bongiyan bas bi kar do.

Here, listen to your democratically elected Hindu Extremist PM Narendra Modi spell it out for you.

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## Nomad40

Trailer23 said:


> I gotta confess. I have somewhat of a guilty pleasure, where I often visit a certain Indian Defense-related Forum.
> 
> Its so much fun. Relating to 26th/27th, they only remember/discuss 02 things.
> 
> *1.* Dosra Pilot
> *2.* Shooting down a F-16 which basically covers Point *1*.
> 
> There is ZER0 talk about us catching them asleep in broad-daylight. No talk about our H-4 footage. Nothing about them shooting down their own Mi-17. Nothing about their 2 Mirages having Radar issues at the same time.
> 
> Oh, just so that you all know, they can flatten out the PAF in less than 2 Days with the help of the Navy (MiG-29's) taking on PAF Base Masroor.


Indians...it is in the name In di an0s

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## GiG

kursed said:


> Not slowed down. They’ve vanished. As of 2020, we are down to start of the war levels of violence in Pak. Something an entire generation of Pakistanis hasn’t seen.
> 
> And when I say parroting Indian propaganda, this is exactly what I mean, Pakistan isn’t losing billions in economic damage to India any more. We have stopped the hemorrhaging. And it makes absolutely no sense for Pakistan to go back to old days. It needs to work on its economy and keep picking apart Indian setups within country.
> 
> Indians otoh are doing well in trying to finish their economy and their institutions off, Pakistan is much better off in not intervening at all and let them.
> 
> As history suggests, fascists will take the country down with them.
> 
> Poor Doval! All he can do these days is yap! And see his setups get taken apart as soon as they’re put into play.



These are in the last week 5+4+1









Five Pakistani soldiers martyred in Balochistan terror attacks - Pakistan Observer


QUETTA – Five troops of Frontier Corps have embraced martyrdom while two others sustained injured in two separate attacks in different areas of southwestern Balochistan province, officials said on Friday.




pakobserver.net













Four soldiers martyred in S Waziristan terror attack - Daily Times


Four soldiers were martyred after terrorist’s opened fire on a security forces post in Makeen, South Waziristan, the military’s media wing said on Friday. In a statement, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said that troops responded promptly and killed four terrorists. “During the...




dailytimes.com.pk













Soldier Embraces Martyrdom Confronting Terrorist Attack On Security Post In Kechh - UrduPoint


A soldier of Pakistan Army has embraced martyrdom confronting terrorists attack on a security post established for protection of N-85 Highway near Hoshab, District Kechh last night




www.urdupoint.com





Indians are inflecting cuts upon cuts to bleed Pakistan to death. Same with their FATF, PTM, and mass disinformation campaigns. They need to stoped and with a pacifist mindset, it's not possible. Once General Zia said that "The water in Afghanistan should boil at the right time", I think its the right time.

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## kursed

GiG said:


> These are in the last week 5+4+1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Five Pakistani soldiers martyred in Balochistan terror attacks - Pakistan Observer
> 
> 
> QUETTA – Five troops of Frontier Corps have embraced martyrdom while two others sustained injured in two separate attacks in different areas of southwestern Balochistan province, officials said on Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pakobserver.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four soldiers martyred in S Waziristan terror attack - Daily Times
> 
> 
> Four soldiers were martyred after terrorist’s opened fire on a security forces post in Makeen, South Waziristan, the military’s media wing said on Friday. In a statement, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said that troops responded promptly and killed four terrorists. “During the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dailytimes.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldier Embraces Martyrdom Confronting Terrorist Attack On Security Post In Kechh - UrduPoint
> 
> 
> A soldier of Pakistan Army has embraced martyrdom confronting terrorists attack on a security post established for protection of N-85 Highway near Hoshab, District Kechh last night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.urdupoint.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indians are inflecting cuts upon cuts to bleed Pakistan to death. Same with their FATF, PTM, and mass disinformation campaigns. They need to stoped and with a pacifist mindset, it's not possible. Once General Zia said that "The water in Afghanistan should boil at the right time", I think its the right time.


Feel free to compare year long stats and stop wasting time over rhetoric.


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## GiG

kursed said:


> Feel free to compare year long stats and stop wasting time over rhetoric.


Statistics for you:https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/77... many as 95 terrorists,compared to 51 in 2019.

1. The official statistics of the Counter-Terrorism Department (CTD) revealed that 156 terrorist incidents were reported in KP in 2020. The number of such incidents in 2019 was 104.

2. According to the statistics, the incidents have increased by around 50 percent in 2020 compared to the previous year. As many as 95 of these incidents were reported in the erstwhile Fata while 61 happened in the rest of the KP during the last year. 

We were lucky that no major harm happened during the PSX attack, else you will be not talking like this. As most of the terror victims are now in remote areas

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## alikazmi007

Yeh Main hoon:







Yeh Mera Mig-21 hai






Or yeh Pakistani People meray sath PAWRY ker rahay hain

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## araz

Mack Truck said:


> They didn't cry for any Rafales, India was trying to acquire new fighter jets since 2008 in their MRCA competition, Rafale won that competition in 2012, but then it was delayed due to co-production disagreements. And also, last year India Purchased MiG-29s and more Su-30s.


I cant recall Imran khan crying "agar Rafale hota to nateeja kuch aur hota". Whose words were the ones I quoted? Why were you crying like a little boy if the mighty yemmmmmm kayyyyyy yaiiiiie had not taken a tumble. But you are free to believe whatever you want. Please continue to do so.
A

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## Mrc

An interesting observation after Chinese release of ladakh videos is that indians always have tall claims but never any evidence to back them....


But both China and Pakistan seems to b able to produce videos and stills to back what they say.... 


This lying through the teeth strategy will bite India very hard once its backers realise they have been also lied with

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## masterchief_mirza

Mrc said:


> An interesting observation after Chinese release of ladakh videos is that indians always have tall claims but never any evidence to back them....
> 
> 
> But both China and Pakistan seems to b able to produce videos and stills to back what they say....
> 
> 
> This lying through the teeth strategy will bite India very hard once its backers realise they have been also lied with


February is the best month for reveals I have noticed.


----------



## siegecrossbow

Mrc said:


> An interesting observation after Chinese release of ladakh videos is that indians always have tall claims but never any evidence to back them....
> 
> 
> But both China and Pakistan seems to b able to produce videos and stills to back what they say....
> 
> 
> This lying through the teeth strategy will bite India very hard once its backers realise they have been also lied with



If they don’t realize by now, it is probably too late anyway. They are like a bunch of 50 year olds who still believe in Santa Claus.


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## Stealth



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## masterchief_mirza

Stealth said:


> View attachment 717806


Nice twist!

On a serious note though, his response was very clever indeed. It exposed the airman's true identity. I'm pretty sure he suspected abhinandan was Indian anyway from the general appearance.

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## MastanKhan

alikazmi007 said:


> Yeh Main hoon:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeh Mera Mig-21 hai
> 
> View attachment 717741
> 
> 
> Or yeh Pakistani People meray sath PAWRY ker rahay hain




Hi,

Absolutelty PATHETIC of Pak army officer to point his handgun at the downed Indian aircraft roundel.

An officer needs to act like an officer.

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## Goenitz

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Absolutelty PATHETIC of Pak army officer to point his handgun at the downed Indian aircraft roundel.
> 
> An officer needs to act like an officer.


The roundel is not Flag sir plus it also looks like a bulls eye to aim at. ??

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## kursed

GiG said:


> Statistics for you:https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/774978-terror-incidents-in-kp-record-increase-in-2020#:~:text=The official statistics of the,incidents in 2019 was 104.&text=As many as 95 terrorists,compared to 51 in 2019.
> 
> 1. The official statistics of the Counter-Terrorism Department (CTD) revealed that 156 terrorist incidents were reported in KP in 2020. The number of such incidents in 2019 was 104.
> 
> 2. According to the statistics, the incidents have increased by around 50 percent in 2020 compared to the previous year. As many as 95 of these incidents were reported in the erstwhile Fata while 61 happened in the rest of the KP during the last year.
> 
> We were lucky that no major harm happened during the PSX attack, else you will be not talking like this. As most of the terror victims are now in remote areas


Yes, congrats, we still have a militancy problem.


GiG said:


> Statistics for you:https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/774978-terror-incidents-in-kp-record-increase-in-2020#:~:text=The official statistics of the,incidents in 2019 was 104.&text=As many as 95 terrorists,compared to 51 in 2019.
> 
> 1. The official statistics of the Counter-Terrorism Department (CTD) revealed that 156 terrorist incidents were reported in KP in 2020. The number of such incidents in 2019 was 104.
> 
> 2. According to the statistics, the incidents have increased by around 50 percent in 2020 compared to the previous year. As many as 95 of these incidents were reported in the erstwhile Fata while 61 happened in the rest of the KP during the last year.
> 
> We were lucky that no major harm happened during the PSX attack, else you will be not talking like this. As most of the terror victims are now in remote areas


PSX attack was foiled under 2 minutes, the same with the attack on Chinese embassy. We just took out another one of their teams in Karachi. So yeh. As for comparing 2019 vs 2020 stats, nowhere have I stated that militancy has ended in Pakistan. But these attacks are nowhere near as sophisticated or high in casualty as they'd been in previous years.

And no, this does not mean that Pakistan should be undertaking anything like this against the fascist neighbor, specially when it's all too fine at eating itself. There is not much to worry about, history does not turn out different for fascists, they are meant for the dustbin of time, no matter what time it is. They are at it, like clockwork.


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## TheDebSahab

I think he acted quite well as he was one of the officers who saved Abhi-none-done from an even harder *** whooping by the mob.

The guy is celebrating. Let him celebrate. Plus, it made out for an awesome pic to run in gangu faces.

If an officer needs discipline, it's Major retired (pitiful) Gaurav Arya. I've seen cross-dressing beggars talk with more class than that baboon.


MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Absolutelty PATHETIC of Pak army officer to point his handgun at the downed Indian aircraft roundel.
> 
> An officer needs to act like an officer.


----------



## Ali_Baba

KhanBaba2 said:


> You guys have taken your time in writing the story.





MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Absolutelty PATHETIC of Pak army officer to point his handgun at the downed Indian aircraft roundel.
> 
> An officer needs to act like an officer.



It is a fantastic picture. The best of them all. He is celebrating the victory of a comrade in arms on their success.

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## Thorough Pro

he is also squatting, and doing a thumbs up and smiling, anything else to criticize






MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Absolutelty PATHETIC of Pak army officer to point his handgun at the downed Indian aircraft roundel.
> 
> An officer needs to act like an officer.

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## GiG

kursed said:


> Yes, congrats, we still have a militancy problem.
> 
> PSX attack was foiled under 2 minutes, the same with the attack on Chinese embassy. We just took out another one of their teams in Karachi. So yeh. As for comparing 2019 vs 2020 stats, nowhere have I stated that militancy has ended in Pakistan. But these attacks are nowhere near as sophisticated or high in casualty as they'd been in previous years.
> 
> And no, this does not mean that Pakistan should be undertaking anything like this against the fascist neighbor, specially when it's all too fine at eating itself. There is not much to worry about, history does not turn out different for fascists, they are meant for the dustbin of time, no matter what time it is. They are at it, like clockwork.


What I originally said that actions in Afghanistan can only slow down the attacks, for stopping them completely real pain is need to be inflicted to the perpetrators. I just talked about PSX because we were lucky in that incident. There is little or nothing you can do against suicide attackers. 

Hitler took down whole Europe with him, do Pakistan wait for the same fate? or be a bit proactive to keep the Indians at bay?


----------



## MastanKhan

Goenitz said:


> The roundel is not Flag sir plus it also looks like a bulls eye to aim at. ??





Thorough Pro said:


> he is also squatting, and doing a thumbs up and smiling, anything else to criticize





Ali_Baba said:


> It is a fantastic picture. The best of them all. He is celebrating the victory of a comrade in arms on their success.





TheDebSahab said:


> I think he acted quite well as he was one of the officers who saved Abhi-none-done from an even harder *** whooping by the mob.
> 
> The guy is celebrating. Let him celebrate. Plus, it made out for an awesome pic to run in gangu faces.
> 
> If an officer needs discipline, it's Major retired (pitiful) Gaurav Arya. I've seen cross-dressing beggars talk with more class than that baboon.





Goenitz said:


> The roundel is not Flag sir plus it also looks like a bulls eye to aim at. ??



Hi,

Don't be a part of cheapening the standards of officers presenting themselves in public.

And don't justify your lowering standards to the acts of the person in question.

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## Zarvan

masterchief_mirza said:


> Nice twist!
> 
> On a serious note though, his response was very clever indeed. It exposed the airman's true identity. I'm pretty sure he suspected abhinandan was Indian anyway from the general appearance.


The flag was clear to people also he was acting really erratic. But when he asked which area in this and when being told it is India he shouted Jai Hind that pissed of people. One big reason was it's area which consistently faces Indian shelling. So they were already really angry.

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## Windjammer

Abhinandan now flying inside Pakistan.

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## ghazi52

Pakistan's way of announcing ' TEA BREAK ' during a test match

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## Goenitz

@PanzerKiel @The Eagle @Windjammer

@08:21
also listen at 13:03
and at 19:08, which is gold @jamahir I can also put ravish quote "if media starts asking basic question, in just 4 days the wind will change its direction"
@23:35 the wrold is distracted so a crisis has no third party to monitor 
@24:53 so true as it happened same on 27 Feb, just 3 months after
*@1:08:25 that is a must.*




till 01:30:00 .
So summary is non-deployment of nukes means that Pak can match conventionally but Pak cannot keep the pace due to its economics.
@peagle @MastanKhan @MilSpec

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## Goenitz

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) 
above post.. just focus on Dr speech and ignore the panellists. This explains the US role strategic response vs crisis response


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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52



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## Trailer23

So, some of you must've figured out that i'm working on something for Surprise Day (27th Feb).

Well, for that, i'm searching for some...err...material.

Came across this. Its a *6hrs* footage of Abhinandan's Return. You all remember that day? It was a circus across the border.

Anyways, just click 'Play'... I've set the time.

*"MiG-21 GINDABAD-GINDABAD!"*






@Imran Khan

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## GriffinsRule

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 719227


Only bottom left. Top right is factually incorrect. Top left is in poor taste.


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## GriffinsRule

Trailer23 said:


> So, some of you must've figured out that i'm working on something for Surprise Day (27th Feb).
> 
> Well, for that, i'm searching for some...err...material.
> 
> Came across this. Its a *6hrs* footage of Abhinandan's Return. You all remember that day? It was a circus across the border.
> 
> Anyways, just click 'Play'... I've set the time.
> 
> *"MiG-21 GINDABAD-GINDABAD!"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan



Just yelling and vomiting the same talking points as told by their government.


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## Imran Khan

Trailer23 said:


> So, some of you must've figured out that i'm working on something for Surprise Day (27th Feb).
> 
> Well, for that, i'm searching for some...err...material.
> 
> Came across this. Its a *6hrs* footage of Abhinandan's Return. You all remember that day? It was a circus across the border.
> 
> Anyways, just click 'Play'... I've set the time.
> 
> *"MiG-21 GINDABAD-GINDABAD!"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan


its simple you shot him down he is her
he shot you down he is hero 
no matter how badly indians loss something they can create victory from it .

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## ghazi52

Pakistan Air Force has released promo of a national song prepared to honor the heroes of Operation Swift Retort.
The song to be released tomorrow highlights patriotism reaffirms the resolve that every personnel of Pakistan Air Force is ready to defend Pakistan at every time ...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364456078356979712


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## arjunk

Trailer23 said:


> So, some of you must've figured out that i'm working on something for Surprise Day (27th Feb).
> 
> Well, for that, i'm searching for some...err...material.
> 
> Came across this. Its a *6hrs* footage of Abhinandan's Return. You all remember that day? It was a circus across the border.
> 
> Anyways, just click 'Play'... I've set the time.
> 
> *"MiG-21 GINDABAD-GINDABAD!"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan



They're so proud of him getting shot down and surrendering. It's like proudly showing off a used condom someone used to f*** your wife.

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## ghazi52

*Rana Suhaib Photography*
tSponsf7ohmrted · 

‏ہم بدر کے وارث بھی ہیں ہم قوت خالد بھی ہیں
ہم للکار قاسم بھی ہیں ہم شمشیر ایوبی بھی ہیں


Display

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## ghazi52

Last year rehearsal , 2020

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## Windjammer



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## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364962254815436800

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## HRK



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## Mrc

Words of DGISPR... shud b written in gold..... 

Clear cut warning... Now wait for us we are coming.... And than we went in next day broad daylight..... 
Priceless... 

Also to note that Airforce and navy wanted immediate response without assessing damages.... That shows level of confidence.... 

Rest is history 


HRK said:


>

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## Trailer23



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## GriffinsRule

HRK said:


>


Not available to view in the US =(

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## PaklovesTurkiye

2 years passed. Damn

I was out of home when news reached me that Indians were shot down.

Respect to PAF


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## ghazi52

Goodbye

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## PakFactor

arjunk said:


> They're so proud of him getting shot down and surrendering. It's like proudly showing off a used condom someone used to f*** your wife.



Dear Lord, Lol.


----------



## Stealth

Dunya aur iskay muzafaat may Hindustan kay zaleel honay ka waqt huwa jata hay 🤣🤣

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## Trailer23

GriffinsRule said:


> Not available to view in the US =(


Man, just download TOR Browser. That way you can view whatever you want.

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## Goritoes

Stealth said:


> Dunya aur iskay muzafaat may Hindustan kay zaleel honay ka waqt huwa jata hay 🤣🤣



Pakistan outclassed Indians on all front that day, they deserve the celebration.

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## Ghessan

Stealth said:


> Dunya aur iskay muzafaat may Hindustan kay zaleel honay ka waqt huwa jata hay 🤣🤣



let's celebrate with dignity, honor and commitment to the future. 
that we will fight for the homeland and the people of this country and won't let it down with our readiness and courage.
we as a nation must also commit to this homeland that we love and are ready to serve. 
May Allah help us rise as a beacon to the nations around the world.

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## Salza

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> 2 years passed. Damn
> 
> I was out of home when news reached me that Indians were shot down.
> 
> Respect to PAF


I was in office when WhatsApp messages started to pop up... With in couple of mins entire office stopped work and went on live streaming lol and I started posting on pdf.. Indian members were in shock, disbelieve.... And with in couple of hrs 80% of them dissappeared from the forum. There was a complete havoc on the forum.. Threads were being created every other second.

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## Trango Towers

Do Indians celebrate Feb 26 and 27

Loool


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## newb3e

Trango Towers said:


> Do Indians celebrate Feb 26 and 27
> 
> Loool



well delusional baboons have never lost a war or a skirmish even the pissing competition btw two yindoos end in dispute because both in their small minds won the competition so both celebrate it as victory...

Indians are amazing!

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## Ghessan

Salza said:


> I was in office when WhatsApp messages started to pop up... With in couple of mins entire office stopped work and went on live streaming lol and I started posting on pdf.. Indian members were in shock, disbelieve.... And with in couple of hrs 80% of them dissappeared from the forum. There was a complete havoc on the forum.. Threads were being created every other second.



oh yeah, me too in the office received a few messages on whatsapp from media persons and i was just looking at those messages again and again in disbelief and few minutes later news appear on channels and there was a noise all around.

well we all witnessed the vanishing souls from the forum what a sight to hold. 
a very few of the good memories for the Nation this 27 Feb and for us on this forum and for how long will we keep talking. 
Allah give us courage to always undo such evil.

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## Salza

Ghessan said:


> oh yeah, me too in the office received a few messages on whatsapp from media persons and i was just looking at those messages again and again in disbelief and few minutes later news appear on channels and there was a noise all around.
> 
> well we all witnessed the vanishing souls from the forum what a sight to hold.
> a very few of the good memories for the Nation this 27 Feb and for us on this forum and for how long will we keep talking.
> Allah give us courage to always undo such evil.


Actually I wasn't that surprise since we all were expecting some sort of retaliation but it happened so quickly was indeed a surprise.

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## Goritoes

Salza said:


> I was in office when WhatsApp messages started to pop up... With in couple of mins entire office stopped work and went on live streaming lol and I started posting on pdf.. Indian members were in shock, disbelieve.... And with in couple of hrs 80% of them dissappeared from the forum. There was a complete havoc on the forum.. Threads were being created every other second.



I woke up to my mom telling my father, that India attacked and how it refreshes her memories of 1965's, I won't lie but she was oddly very excited for a war hahaha but then she told me that Pakistan shot 2 Indian jets with 1 pilot captured, I who was just waking up thought she was still talking about 65 stories, and when I came to the living room, I saw it on news and that is one day I didn't need tea to properly wake up.

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## M.SAAD

I hope PAF decides to reveal the proof of Su30 kill tomorrow.

Will be the icing on cake..

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## Ghessan

Salza said:


> Actually I wasn't that surprise since we all were expecting some sort of retaliation but it happened so quickly was indeed a surprise.



of course after ISPR press conference and earlier PM statement yes we all were.
but we never knew the target mission will carry more weightage with it having bagged two air crafts and their own shot helicopter in panic although many of us still talk about missed opportunities.


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## Viper27

M.SAAD said:


> I hope PAF decides to reveal the proof of Su30 kill tomorrow.
> 
> Will be the icing on cake..



I dont think we should be expecting anything more on the Su-30 front.

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## Vapour

Nigh on 2 years since the event, but still no details of PA ground action along LOC and WB on 27th Feb 2019.

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## F86 Saber

Gar jung lazim hai to phir jung he sahi..... These were my sentiments on that day

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## TheTallGuy

Modi is in kashmir ...since yesterday...? 

Be prepare for any Tamsha!

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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel



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## Jungibaaz

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 720390


RIP... each deserves at least one Vir Chakra

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## arjunk

Happy surprise day

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## TheDebSahab

Not that exciting. "We got the call, we went looking, we saved the gabgu from the Chittar, Gave him tea, Got all the info we need from him, sent the him on his way*.


Vapour said:


> Nigh on 2 years since the event, but still no details of PA ground action along LOC and WB on 27th Feb 2019.


----------



## TheDebSahab

Why would he be in Kashmir if he wanted Tamasha?


TheTallGuy said:


> Modi is in kashmir ...since yesterday...?
> 
> Be prepare for any Tamsha!


----------



## Path-Finder

@Imran Khan do you have something to say?


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## Goenitz

Path-Finder said:


> @Imran Khan do you have something to say?


he posted memes before....
anyway, I wasn't expecting any response as 'no death' news already cooled down the reason to attack..
but somehow PA take the quid quo plus policy seriously... though we should have done something about the sub... a little damage cd hv been done so they cd go back w/o submerging

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## Trailer23

Already posted these videos on my Video Editing Topic, but believe it belongs here too for those whom I may not have tagged there.

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## Wikki019

Love reading those texts of Indians here on 26 feb that sukhois will eat F16 and JF17 alive, even mirage2000 is enough for PAF. It will be a mistake if PAF will retaliate. And on 27 feb they were like now it is war and now you will see 🤣🤣🤣🤣 P.S: agar aj raphail hota....

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## ghazi52

*Syed Zohaib Zaidi Photography*
6tSponushforectd · 

2nd Anniversary of Operation Swift Retort....The tea was fantastic!

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365415375253471237

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## FAROOQ RASHID BUTT

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100179216375693318
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100207947022565377


Today is the death anniversary of 2 Indian fighter and It is also the anniversary of Abhinandan tea party


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## monitor

JF-17 Thunder & Mirage in Operation Swift Retort depiction by Group Captain (R) Syed Masood A. Hussaini.

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## Imran Khan

Path-Finder said:


> @Imran Khan do you have something to say?


what should i say sir ? all i can say thank you pakistani forces


Vapour said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365415375253471237


its not tail sir its horizontal stabilizer


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## Daghalodi

Happy Surprise Day!!

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## siegecrossbow

For me personally Surprise Day was more than just an aerial skirmish, it as an eye opener for the lengths the IAF would go to spin failure into success.

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## untitled

siegecrossbow said:


> For me personally Surprise Day was more than just an aerial skirmish, it as an eye opener for the lengths the IAF would go to spin failure into success.


It is not just the IAF. Indians in general have concocted more fantasies since Modi came to power than their entire 70 plus year history

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## crankthatskunk

Congratulation to all Pakistan on 2nd birthday of "Operation Swift Retort". 

The bells were rang loud and clear. So much so that Bipin had to run to the Bok. He is nowhere to be found, probably still there. 

Brave PAF pilots, well done. 

Wish you have given permissions to destroy the real targets and with it we would have said "Good Bye" to 
"General Bipin Rawat" then Army Chief of Indian Army. 

Opportunity missed.

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## The Eagle



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## untitled

The Eagle said:


> View attachment 720546


I am pretty sure Tipu Sultan meant tiger here not a lion. After all he was known as the Tiger of Mysore


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## Salza

Around this time, news started to poured in about Pakistani retaliation. 10.30 am

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## untitled

> 27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts *inside* Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR



With all the information we know now, is the title of this thread still valid?


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## The Eagle

untitled said:


> I am pretty sure Tipu Sultan meant tiger here not a lion. After all he was known as the Tiger of Mysore



What he was known and what he said, are different. If we shall not act like nitpicking on everything, one has to understand Urdu well.

Sher=Lion and now recall what Tipu Sultan said.


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## Dazzler

The Eagle said:


> What he was known and what he said, are different. If we shall not act like nitpicking on everything, one has to understand Urdu well.
> 
> Sher=Lion and now recall what Tipu Sultan said.

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## untitled

The Eagle said:


> one has to understand Urdu well.


Does Urdu have a separate word for tiger? Unfortunately no. Context matters. Tipu Sultan was known as Tiger of Mysore and all his standards bore the Tiger. Anyone translating _sher_ as lion in the context of _Tipu Sultan_ is not only doing a poor job of translation but also not doing justice to his memory


The Eagle said:


> Sher=Lion and now recall what Tipu Sultan said.


Imagine someone translating _Sher e Bengal_ as Lion of Bengal...LOL

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## Signalian

untitled said:


> Does Urdu have a separate word for tiger? Unfortunately no. Tipu Sultan was known as Tiger of Mysore and all his standards bore this symbol. Anyone translating _sher_ as lion in the context of _Tipu Sultan_ is not only doing a poor job of translation but also not doing justice to the memory of Tipu


Being a word nazi/grammar nazi especially in translations of two different languages is not suitable if the context is understood, as in the case above, I suggest you stop dragging the issue.


The Eagle said:


> What he was known and what he said, are different. If we shall not act like nitpicking on everything, one has to understand Urdu well.
> 
> Sher=Lion and now recall what Tipu Sultan said.


In Pakistan, Leopard is called "Cheeta" in urdu. There is another word "tendwa" in urdu, some say its for jaguar and relate jaguar to leopard. Some use tendwa for leopard, majority uses cheeta.

It becomes a pointless debate. Understanding each other is the point.

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## untitled

Signalian said:


> Being a word nazi/grammar nazi especially in translations of two different languages is not suitable if the context is understood, as in the case above, I suggest you stop dragging the issue.


OK next time I will translate _Sherdil_ as Tigerheart because context is understood in this case too

Instead of calling me names like grammar _Modi_, a better man would have accepted the word "Sher" was badly translated in this case


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## PanzerKiel



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## Raider 21

"Meanwhile, the pair of patrolling Su-30s were completely shocked when they were targeted by an F-16 with an AIM-120 missile at long range. Having survived a direct hit, both Su-30s scampered out of the area, leaving the field to the Mirage 2000 pair."

Tufail has adjusted some of the events in his blog.








IAF's Balakot Disaster Two Years On


A s with any political party in power, the Indian elections of 2019 were critical for Bharatya Janata Party (BJP), for it wanted a stronger ...




kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com





Maybe no Su-30 shot down after all.....


----------



## PanzerKiel



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## Goenitz

Raider 21 said:


> Tufail has adjusted some of the events in his blog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF's Balakot Disaster Two Years On
> 
> 
> A s with any political party in power, the Indian elections of 2019 were critical for Bharatya Janata Party (BJP), for it wanted a stronger ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com


That adjustment, if at all, is old as I read the same months ago..
@untitled @The Eagle
Yes, sher is tiger which is found in sub-continent like in bengal, gujrat, and may be south .. Lion was not a local animal.. Urdu has limitation like people still say '_haram machi_' for prawns... so _sher _distinction goes away in Urdu.. so we add _babbar (persian) _with sher "balo wala sher" for Lion. In local language like in Gujrat it is called Singh
anyway, depicting correct animal matters like replacing Iqbal _shaheen_ with _baz_ would ruin the context and poetry too..

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## GriffinsRule

The Eagle said:


> What he was known and what he said, are different. If we shall not act like nitpicking on everything, one has to understand Urdu well.
> 
> Sher=Lion and now recall what Tipu Sultan said.


Lion = Babar Sher =)

Its called as such probably due to the now extinct Barbary Lions from Northern Africa that were used in the Roman colosseums.


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## CIA Mole

i was hoping they try something again for anniversary so PAF can punish them again

need to shoot down a rafale to shut them up for a few months


----------



## Bratva

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 720553




His tribe took the revenge in Rajasthan


*Indian Air Force MiG-21 crashes near Nal in Rajasthan, pilot safe*

March 8, 2019UPDATED: March 8, 2019 18:27 IST 

Bikaner SP Pradeep Mohan Sharma said the MIG aircraft crashed in Shobhasar ki Dhani, 12 km from Bikaner city.

*IAF spokesperson Group Captain Anupam Banerjee said initial inputs indicated the likely cause as bird hit after take off.*

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

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## arjunk

People across the border's thoughts

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365523970426957825

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## hassan1



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## Path-Finder

Goenitz said:


> he posted memes before....
> anyway, I wasn't expecting any response as 'no death' news already cooled down the reason to attack..
> but somehow PA take the quid quo plus policy seriously... though we should have done something about the sub... a little damage cd hv been done so they cd go back w/o submerging


ahh what?


Imran Khan said:


> what should i say sir ? all i can say thank you pakistani forces


i haven't forgotten your outburst, vile outburst 2 years ago.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365499118764892162

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## The Eagle

Raider 21 said:


> Maybe no Su-30 shot down after all.....



One has to look at DIRECT HIT context. I will be surprised if Pakistanis have started to act like Indians by awarding Hassan Siddiqui for nothing. 

For me its looks like, MKI was damaged but not with a hit in the face. Other side claimed a lot of evasive maneuvers & dodging AMRAAM and this side has electronic signatures as well. So, may be in 2034 will be the year to release some data publicly and there's a chance that Indians will spill it out in emotions or by foolishness like Arnab leaks.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365317573747818501

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## Raider 21

The Eagle said:


> One has to look at DIRECT HIT context. I will be surprised if Pakistanis have started to act like Indians by awarding Hassan Siddiqui for nothing.
> 
> For me its looks like, MKI was damaged but not with a hit in the face. Other side claimed a lot of evasive maneuvers & dodging AMRAAM and this side has electronic signatures as well. So, may be in 2034 will be the year to release some data publicly and there's a chance that Indians will spill it out in emotions or by foolishness like Arnab leaks.


I've heard a different version of events, but will stay silent on it here.

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## GiG

IAF committed 2 fratricides in 2019, 1 on 27 Feb and the other on 14 Dec

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## Stealth

*27th Feb 2019 the domination day when PAF smashed IAF airborne suicide squads at full Mach and enforced its air supremacy in modern warfare.*

Pakistan Air Force successfully penetrated the enemy air defense systems and locked-down air and ground targets. Entire Indian military spectrum failed to deter Pakistan's military response.

*:: Damaging consequences and aftereffects ::*

1. India's Tri-Chiefs officially admitted Pakistan's air combat force penetration into India's occupied territory.
2. India's Tri-Chiefs officially admitted that Pakistan Airforce engaged their targets which includes the bombing of the IA brigade headquarter.
3. India MEA and BJP Govt officials admitted that they did not have any authentic causality report of 26 Feb 19 IAF air-raid (figure 300 was only quoted by the Indian media till to date).
4. India's top military experts including generals admitted Pakistan's military superiority over the Indian military in the battlespace on 27th Feb 2019.
5. India has failed to provide any constructive evidence of downing a PAF F-16 during air-to-air combat.
6. The entire world, military enthusiasts, and defense experts acknowledged Pakistan's military dominance over India in the modern battlefield (2019).
7. India faced the highest order of diplomatic and military failure.

*:: On the other hand ::*

1. Pakistan warns before retaliations in advance against any aggression and calls the enemy for an open challenge.
2. Pakistan Airforce attacked in broad daylight and shot down two Indian fighter jets in air-to-air combat.
3. Pakistan military directorate (ISPR) presented the wreckage of IAF MIG fighters to the world that fell into Pakistan's territory.
4. Pakistan Army captured and held Indian Airforce pilot Wing Commander Abhinandhan POW (prisoner of war) with dignity and respect and later returned him under the rules of businesses (aka Geneva conventions).
5. PAF presented surgical strike footage conducted by Pakistan Air Force against the Indian Army brigade headquarter in India’s illegally occupied Kashmir (IOK).
6. Pakistan Navy foiled attempt of Indian Navy submarine trying to enter Pakistani waters and aired the footage. The submarine could have been easily engaged and destroyed by Pakistan Navy P3-Orion (anti-submarine/surveillance aircraft).
7. Pakistan threatened India against any further misadventure by selecting multiple targets deep inside India’s territory similar to the 2002 stand-off.



 @airomerix  @Hodor  @HawkEye27  @araz@Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @BHarwana @Bilal Khan (Quwa)  @Bilal Khan 777 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52  @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan  @Jango @krash  @LeGenD@Moonlight  @Side-Winder  @SQ8  @waz@Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @Areesh@ARMalik @assasiner @Blacklight@crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster@Counter-Errorist @Dalit @DESERT FIGHTER@Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon@FuturePAF @graphican @GriffinsRule@Gryphon @GumNaam @Haris Ali2140@HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @I S I @JamD@Khanivore @khansaheeb @khanasifm@Liquidmetal @loanranger@masterchief_mirza @Maxpane @Metal 0-1@Mirage Battle Commander @Microsoft@mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @Muhammad Omar @NA71 @Nasr @Norwegian@notorious_eagle @Pakistani Fighter@PAKISTANFOREVER @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PWFI @Rafi@Reichsmarschall @Riz @SABRE @Safriz@Shane @Signalian @Stealth @StormBreaker@The Accountant @The Raven @TheTallGuy@Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tipu7@Tps43 @truthfollower @TsAr @Trango Towers @undercover JIX @Viper27 @Vortex@Verve @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan@ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
hommies @PakSword @Super Falcon@Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007 @War Thunder @ZedZeeshan @Crystal-Clear

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=335414101195652








PAF Operation Swift Retort
https://youtu.be/6DHyRX9NwWw

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## air marshal



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## Windjammer

Raider 21 said:


> I've heard a different version of events, but will stay silent on it here.


We all have heard various versions from various sources.
Fact is from day one, PAF knew call signs of the SU-30 formations, no prizes for guessing how.
Making a simple claim is one thing but awarding the shooter and erecting a monument is a different ball game.
When Modi was crying out for Rafales, do you think he was just brooding over the loss of a MiG-21....some 500 of which have already have been lost in accidents.
How many times have you seen a PAF aircraft painted with kill markings just for the sake of it.
And above all, how convinced are the Israelis that their gadgets worked effectively to counter the American weapons.....hopefully one day all will be revealed.

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## Reichmarshal

wt utter crap, there was no camp there ever. there is a madrassa there and the avg age of the pupils there is around 10 years but 90 percent of them are day students from the villages nearby. 
Even if ur incompetent airforce had managed to strike that place it would have found it mostly empty.
There is hardly any place in Pakistan off-limits to anyone all year round n this place was the last place anyone would put restrictions on.

lastly, u lot r being taken for a ride (like the nazis took the germans) by ur govt. in cahoots with ur media, so wake up before its too late.

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## Goenitz

Dark1 said:


> Maybe tell us why the balakot camp was kept hidden from the press for 42 days ?


Bcz the sixth bomb couldn't be found as per Indian claims.. we just found 5. So for safety issue, no foreign was allowed until complete clearance... however, locals reporters were there on the very first day..


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## Windjammer

Dark1 said:


> Tell us. Dont worry you have a Pakistani flag, only we get banned for different versions. One of your retired ace's has already backtracked from the su30 claim.
> Maybe tell us why the balakot camp was kept hidden from the press for 42 days ?


Yea lets talk about Balakot not visited for 42 days and just ignore how it took 8 months to confirm shooting down own helicopter in the backyard or what it was doing when an air battle was in progress or what prompted Indian ground defence to determine that it was a PAF aircraft flying so deep inside IOK.

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## SQ8

Raider 21 said:


> I've heard a different version of events, but will stay silent on it here.


I think everyone has different versions - simply because no one knows what transpired on the other side of the border in a BVR engagement.

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## nomi007

air marshal said:


>


After hearing this interview, I realize that only 1 EW squadron is not enough for PAF.
2nd we have to induct the most advanced Saab EW aircraft in our inventory.


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## HRK

Windjammer said:


> Yea lets talk about Balakot not visited for 42 days and just ignore how it took 8 months to confirm shooting down own helicopter in the backyard or what it was doing when an air battle was in progress or what prompted Indian ground defence to determine that it was a PAF aircraft flying so deep inside IOK.


ignore the idiot there were 2 prime time journalist from two of biggest news channel who visited Jabbab top at 26th Feb, 2019 videos of their program available on youtube ... other than these BBC local news corespondent also visited Balakot and residential areas of Jaba hill news video of BBC is also available on youtube and shared by many on the thread related to 27th Feb ....

But as we know NATION OF HABITUAL LIARS will keep creating stories of their likeness about the event....

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## The Eagle

nomi007 said:


> After hearing this interview, I realize that only 1 EW squadron is not enough for PAF.
> 2nd we have to induct the most advanced Saab EW aircraft in our inventory.



Something like Italians doing with gulf stream I think. JAMMS.... Joint airborne multi-sensor multi-mission systems beside electronic attack A/C's.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365654478146461697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365655051168014346
But given our limitations, that's quite a luxury though, we can work with less numbers but there needs to be starting point. I guess, Pakistan might be working for something and not sitting quietly.


HRK said:


> ignore the idiot there were 2 prime time journalist from two of biggest news channel who visited Jabbab top at 26th Feb, 2019 videos of their program available on youtube ... other than these BBC local news corespondent also visited Balakot and residential areas of Jaba hill news video of BBC is also available on youtube and shared by many on the thread related to 27th Feb ....
> 
> But as we know NATION OF HABITUAL LIARS will keep creating stories of their likeness about the event....



Unfortunately, now everyone with a keyboard thinks they knew it all without searching the internet.

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## StructE

arjunk said:


> People across the border's thoughts
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365523970426957825


Well, Pravin is a reputable person who deserves respect. So he is right, no need to make fun of him.


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## Stealth

StructE said:


> Well, Pravin is a reputable person who deserves respect. So he is right, no need to make fun of him.




To Pakistanis, please stop tagging this man in your stupid posts. He is not typical Modi bakhat shit. He knows much better than you about the military thingy. If you have any doubt, please do watch his 2/3 videos, you’ll realize the level of knowledge, analysis, and capabilities of assessing defense-related things he has. He was the first one from India, provided his comprehensive, unbiased analysis exactly the day after the 27 Feb PAF strikes.

He clearly stated, Pakistan outclassed India in all formats whether militarily (esp in EW), diplomatically, and in the information warfare domain. He also said many times in his videos that today, India’s defense is nowhere to challenge or deter Pakistan.

He is a very reputable person from India in the global defense corridors. Please stop doing this... he knows what PAF did with IAF in real. In fact for me, Abhinandhan is a professional soldier and he proved it. Despite such hostility, Modi Govt, and their anti-Pakistani media, he never opens his mouth, never says anything against Pakistan. He has the option to change his statement but he doesn’t do that. He exceptionally behaving well to date like a good boy. I wasn't expecting this quite frankly.

It’s better for us not to behave like this.. whatever you’re doing on the internet, you’re representing Pakistan esp when you start commenting on the internationally known personalities. If Indian media aka fake broadcaster (the epicenter of global fake news) and their govt busy fooling their public by running politically motivated campaigns just for the face-saving aur ch**** banati phir rahe hay apni janta ko tu zaroori nahi aap bhi ghaday ban jayeen... world knows the reality. Defense and mil experts acknowledged PAF dominance over India .... so no point in doing this...

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## The Raven

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 720553



Guys, please remember the real hero and tragic victim on this auspicious day, he gave his life in defence of the nation, and he's a hero as much as our PAF pilots and armed forces. I salute you sir, you shall forever live in a our memories. The corvid family is very dear to me, they are extremely intelligent members of the bird family.

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## Imran Khan

The Raven said:


> Guys, please remember the real hero and tragic victim on this auspicious day, he gave his life in defence of the nation, and he's a hero as much as our PAF pilots and armed forces. I salute you sir, you shall forever live in a our memories. The corvid family is very dear to me, they are extremely intelligent members of the bird family.


spyder missile was our 2nd weapon after aim-120 

jay hind

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## PanzerKiel

But above all... He's the man... 
The man who tweaked the electronics of M2000 so that their pilots called no joy... 

The man who mixed sedatives in the morning tea of WC Abhi so that he was not in senses while crossing LOC... 

The man who took out the plug of IFF transponder from mi17 which was then taken as enemy and shot down... 

The man who himself fired the SPYDER on Mi17.... 

The man who filled in the wrong coordinate on SPICE bombs... 

He will remain our best...

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## ghazi52



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## PanzerKiel

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 720773


Technically, he shouldn't be wearing the patch of 5 Squadron.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365598248740790273

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## Stealth

Path-Finder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365598248740790273



Man, this is seriously damaging... Khaleej Mag like many others literally embarrassing and humiliating India today lol


----------



## Trailer23

-courtesy of @Maarkhoor 

Bro, I thought i'd share this clip here )too), so that even if your Topic ends up on page 2, 3 or whatever - this clip will remain where it belongs.

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## Trailer23



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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365679739852247041

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## siegecrossbow

Trailer23 said:


> -courtesy of @Maarkhoor
> 
> Bro, I thought i'd share this clip here )too), so that even if your Topic ends up on page 2, 3 or whatever - this clip will remain where it belongs.



Look at what a Chinese guy found in an Indian family’s house!

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## Vapour

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365701741900103687

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## air marshal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365642145697325057

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## Path-Finder

siegecrossbow said:


> Look at what a Chinese guy found in an Indian family’s house!
> 
> View attachment 720844
> 
> View attachment 720845


HAHAHA WTF!
@Sunny4pak you run a defence youtube channel and you have called spice a 'mijjile' when its a standoff weapon!!


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## pkd

__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4219920674708320&id=211727738860987

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## Ali_Baba

The Raven said:


> Guys, please remember the real hero and tragic victim on this auspicious day, he gave his life in defence of the nation, and he's a hero as much as our PAF pilots and armed forces. I salute you sir, you shall forever live in a our memories. The corvid family is very dear to me, they are extremely intelligent members of the bird family.



I think we should organise a collection and get a statue of this warrior built where he fell ???????

A permanent reminder that all on Pakistan's solit is dear to all Pakistanis, including the birds.

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## kursed

ARMalik said:


> Not possible due to two main reasons:
> 
> 1- *Loss of Indian Air Superiority. *Shooting down 12-planes would have meant a lot of confusion and disorganization within IAF, giving CLEAR ADVANTAGE TO PAF. PAF would have decimated Indian Army and navy.
> 2- Nukes specially tactical nukes.



If PAF had done that, they'd be taking down planes in Indian air space, not Pakistani - Pakistan would have pretty much declared war on India for missing a strike in Balakot. It'd help to keep the context in mind. This would not have helped our case, at all. None of the Indian air crafts crossed into our air space that day, other than Abhi's.

And PAF while could maintain air superiority for a short time, would not have been able to do the same in a stretched war and we'd have seen losses too - had this turned into even in just an air war. And all for what? One strike, that did not hurt anyone in Pakistan?

War is a fairly serious business, our economy took time just to recover from the expenses of long-drawn CAPs that were flown in the aftermath of this incident. We'd have never afforded a war, our economy has been in shambles for a good while now.

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## Blueskiez 2001

kursed said:


> If PAF had done that, they'd be taking down planes in Indian air space, not Pakistani -* Pakistan would have pretty much declared war on India for missing a strike in Balakot.* It'd help to keep the context in mind. This would not have helped our case, at all. None of the Indian air crafts crossed into our air space that day, other than Abhi's.



And India didn´t declare war by bombing Balakot area? - regardless of the damage....???

To all that have such arguments: WAKE UP. India will go to any extent to harm Pakistan and even do things that in reality is equal to declaring war.

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## kursed

Blueskiez 2001 said:


> And India didn´t declare war by bombing Balakot area? - regardless of the damage....???
> 
> To all that have such arguments: WAKE UP. India will go to any extent to harm Pakistan and even do things that in reality is equal to declaring war.


Had this strike killed the seminary students, yes, then we’d have been at war. But that hadn’t happened.


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## truthfollower

I was up all night waiting for retaliation from Pakistan side, and when i was going to bed thinking maybe we are not going to retaliate, someone came and told me pakistan shot down indian jets and i ran to watch the news and yes there it was on all news channels "Pakistan shot down Indian jets" and i thought "OMG looks like we are going for war."

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## ice_man

I am totally shocked at how indians believe the bollywood script without any proof. 

1) No proof of any deaths or buildings damaged in Balakot 

2) No proof of any F16 lost in action. 

3) MI17 shot by their own spyder SAMs 

Yet they still believe their own made up nonsense.



Well at least their air force is fully aware of or capability and capacity. Which Allah has given us Allahmdulliah

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## GumNaam

ice_man said:


> I am totally shocked at how indians believe the bollywood script without any proof.
> 
> 1) No proof of any deaths or buildings damaged in Balakot
> 
> 2) No proof of any F16 lost in action.
> 
> 3) MI17 shot by their own spyder SAMs
> 
> Yet they still believe their own made up nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least their air force is fully aware of or capability and capacity. Which Allah has given us Allahmdulliah


I'm shocked that you're shocked. don't you know that if they can believe gow muttar is a drinking tonic that can protect you from the coronavirus & that cow shit can defeat nuclear radiation then they can believe anything their gowdi media feeds them...

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## air marshal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366712796625440775

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## Trailer23

Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.

- aired on *2nd March, 2019*








@Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC

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## The Eagle

Trailer23 said:


> Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.
> 
> - aired on *2nd March, 2019*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC



Pakistan is bank corrupt, Pakistan is this & Pakistan is that while Praveen Sawhney showed them some reality but unfortunately, since the delusion & media injection is so strong; even their faithful people are shut & trolled so all in all, I see that we still have an edge while they are still looking at an imaginary isolated & bank corrupt Pakistan for which I pray that they keep looking at us like that. speaking of faces & their impressions, the whole world saw them being so proud while waving the piece of PAF AMRAAM in their hands. A win win to be precisely.

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## HRK

The Eagle said:


> I see that we still have an edge


"
"If" its exist then its eroding fast ....

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## Blueskiez 2001

kursed said:


> Had this strike killed the seminary students, yes, then we’d have been at war. But that hadn’t happened.



You are unfortunately not getting my point. Certain acts regardless of the damage is equal to that the country has actually declared war. Bombing a territory is one of them - and you should be aware that it was balakot that was bombed which is not a part of kashmir (ie not a disputed area).
And just to give you another example of an act that is equal to declaring a war - even though you don´t say it out load or do any damage: Blockade of a harbor is an act that is equal of declaring war.

My point is:
WHEN INDIA BOMBED BALAKOT THEY IN REALITY DECLARED WAR ON PAKISTAN!!!

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## Stealth

Trailer23 said:


> Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.
> 
> - aired on *2nd March, 2019*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC




Look at the level of confusion seriously bunch of jokers sitting in a hall except Pravin.... LOL

They don't have any evidence of F16, they got banged in the broad daylight, their Ex Air force officer admitted in the same video that Pakistan has sent 24 aircrafts... on the other hand, they said, we deterred Pakistan lol oh man if you really deterring someone, they won't send 24 loaded Fighters, you know what does that means? the airforce was ready to take you on at every level but guess what, you're NOWHERE in the skies lol.... your communication was jammed, your HQ bombed, your pilot captured, your AD shot down your own heli in a panic, this is your deterrence I mean ... you guys were literally a JOKE in front of the PAF on that day... your ground forces had no idea what's going on above their heads ... this 40 mins of the program is enough to understand, how demoralized, confused and fukdup they're from 27Feb event

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## ziaulislam

Trailer23 said:


> Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.
> 
> - aired on *2nd March, 2019*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC


Morally bankrupt   


The Eagle said:


> Pakistan is bank corrupt, Pakistan is this & Pakistan is that while Praveen Sawhney showed them some reality but unfortunately, since the delusion & media injection is so strong; even their faithful people are shut & trolled so all in all, I see that we still have an edge while they are still looking at an imaginary isolated & bank corrupt Pakistan for which I pray that they keep looking at us like that. speaking of faces & their impressions, the whole world saw them being so proud while waving the piece of PAF AMRAAM in their hands. A win win to be precisely.


This is partially true
We were bankrupt at that time and long war would have not been feasible 

You do atleast need fuel for your jets

So they were shocked that we responded but since they werent serious to begin with it went no where

We might not be lucky next time


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## The Eagle

ziaulislam said:


> We were bankrupt at that time and long war would have not been feasible



MY post was in context to their believe as such and being deluded. I am surprised by their capability being totally wrong about Pakistan. Either we were bankrupt or not; wasn't even the question in first place for anyone with working brain. 



ziaulislam said:


> We might not be lucky next time



Fights aren't fought merely based upon luck. You might not be in knowledge but things are far different but kept under wraps and there is a reason to do so. People's anxiety isn't the true picture but everyone has a reason to be like that. No offense.

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## Ghessan

Trailer23 said:


> Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.
> 
> - aired on *2nd March, 2019*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC



i am amazed at the definition of Pak being "bankrupt" quoted by that person who talk right after Praveen Sawheny 

and the next man based his point to the question raised by Praveen about deterrence by saying their 40 year old Mig-21 shot down F-16. when their narrative is not based on facts then let them keep satisfying their egos the way they want.

and listen to the next person who claims they started "war on terror" 
i mean what are these people? all of this rubbish is just for public consumption in India and they will keep doing it until regime change. then probably will come out those sane voices ans speak the truth and show themselves true face of their own.

then comes this Gen Satish Dua the so called surgical strike and PAF shallow strike. 

what i conclude is let them live with that since they need some breathing space from their own hysterical operations of surgical strike and Balakot.

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## The Raven

Trailer23 said:


> Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.
> 
> - aired on *2nd March, 2019*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC




I would suggest we don't post such filth in threads like these, keep them for the indian forum section where they belong.

I will say one thing though, take a long hard look at the mindset of those across the border - this is what happens in a myopic delusional culture which has lost all faculty of rational, open thought processes. History is littered with the dead carcasses of such examples, and outside of the secular progressive democracies (which can still be subject to the same decay, as demonstrated by Trumpism), most of the world continues to suffer from this condition.

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## GriffinsRule

Ghessan said:


> what i conclude is let them live with that since they need some breathing space from their own hysterical operations of surgical strike and Balakot.


Exactly my sentiment ... I don't understand the need Pakistanis feel to somehow correct the Indian misconceptions on PAF and its capabilities or what happened on Feb 27th. There are pages and pages full on different threads repeating the same points endlessly. Why correct the enemy?

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## Valiant

Jungibaaz said:


> RIP... each deserves at least one Vir Chakra



Maha Rafu Chakra

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## iLION12345_1

Can someone kindly post the video shown by ISPR of Pakistani jets targeting Indian installments and then launching their payload in the empty area nearby. As well as the photos showing the before and after.
I know they have been posted here once before but I’m having trouble finding them in the massive thread. 
@Windjammer I believe you have them.
Thanks in advance.


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## air marshal

*84606 *















Pakistan Air Force General Dynamics F-16BM Fighting Falcon - Photo by Rao Muhammad Farrukh - Falcons.PK







falcons.pk

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## Windjammer

iLION12345_1 said:


> Can someone kindly post the video shown by ISPR of Pakistani jets targeting Indian installments and then launching their payload in the empty area nearby. As well as the photos showing the before and after.
> I know they have been posted here once before but I’m having trouble finding them in the massive thread.
> @Windjammer I believe you have them.
> Thanks in advance.

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## Goenitz

@WebMaster @SQ8 @Horus @The Eagle 
Can we have search option just within thread? like finding all my posts or keyword in this thread?
like search feature in YouTube channel.


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## iLION12345_1

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 722053


Thanks a lot, do you happen to have the video too?


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## Signalian

Blueskiez 2001 said:


> My point is:
> WHEN INDIA BOMBED BALAKOT THEY IN REALITY DECLARED WAR ON PAKISTAN!!!


Pakistan and India act very differently in this regard and mostly keep the conflict restricted to the zone its created in, a few examples are Rann of Kutch, Siachen, Kargil etc.

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## The Eagle

Goenitz said:


> @WebMaster @SQ8 @Horus @The Eagle
> Can we have search option just within thread? like finding all my posts or keyword in this thread?
> like search feature in YouTube channel.



Go to your profile. There you can use "FIND" option accordingly.

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## HRK

Goenitz said:


> @WebMaster @SQ8 @Horus @The Eagle
> Can we have search option just within thread? like finding all my posts or keyword in this thread?
> like search feature in YouTube channel.

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## Goenitz

HRK said:


> View attachment 722201
> 
> View attachment 722200


Thank you sir, for the effort..

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## TheTallGuy

Bratva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100667103835648000
> 
> @Hodor @HRK Avenger 1 is the call sign of SAAB AEWC ? It was up in the air in 12-1 am today it seems



This is a very very interesting post from Page 187 by @Bratva 

Now after 2 years...read it in hindsight.

What was Avenger 1? and try understand reported location of Flight24 just look at Calibrated Airspeed (82kts) hight 2333ft...

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## TheTallGuy

Hodor said:


> According to my info Avenger 1 was a fighter and was flying at low altitude.It was airborne 2 hours ago as well



This 2nd post is also very very interesting by @Hodor 

in hindsight after 2 years
@PanzerKiel 

I hope you could shed some light on it

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## TheTallGuy

Some thing to ponder timestamp of tweet

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## Trailer23

*India**:* You guys were warned exactly a week in advance, but [phir bhe baighairat honay pay thullay-way thay].

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## maverick1977

TheTallGuy said:


> This is a very very interesting post from Page 187 by @Bratva
> 
> Now after 2 years...read it in hindsight.
> 
> What was Avenger 1? and try understand reported location of Flight24 just look at Calibrated Airspeed (82kts) hight 2333ft...




may be i missed out the sarcasm here, why would a military aircraft keep its transponder running 😉😊


----------



## TheTallGuy

maverick1977 said:


> may be i missed out the sarcasm here, why would a military aircraft keep its transponder running 😉😊



Flat spin? 82kts -2333ft

My problem with Flight24 Radar location

i hope some learned people here take a look at it.


----------



## ice_man

Stealth said:


> Look at the level of confusion seriously bunch of jokers sitting in a hall except Pravin.... LOL
> 
> They don't have any evidence of F16, they got banged in the broad daylight, their Ex Air force officer admitted in the same video that Pakistan has sent 24 aircrafts... on the other hand, they said, we deterred Pakistan lol oh man if you really deterring someone, they won't send 24 loaded Fighters, you know what does that means? the airforce was ready to take you on at every level but guess what, you're NOWHERE in the skies lol.... your communication was jammed, your HQ bombed, your pilot captured, your AD shot down your own heli in a panic, this is your deterrence I mean ... you guys were literally a JOKE in front of the PAF on that day... your ground forces had no idea what's going on above their heads ... this 40 mins of the program is enough to understand, how demoralized, confused and fukdup they're from 27Feb event




Well that was 2 years ago. Now need to keep up the hard work. 

there was time PAKISTAN was HOCKEY WORLD CHAMPION does anyone remember that now? NO 

there was time PAKISTAN was CRICKET WORLD CHAMPION does anyone remember that now? NO

time to move on prepare ourselves for S400s and Rafales. never live in the past. 


having said that 26th feb was a day we were angry and frustrated and 27th was Allah's blessing. Allahmdulliah

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## White and Green with M/S

ice_man said:


> Well that was 2 years ago. Now need to keep up the hard work.
> 
> there was time PAKISTAN was HOCKEY WORLD CHAMPION does anyone remember that now? NO
> 
> there was time PAKISTAN was CRICKET WORLD CHAMPION does anyone remember that now? NO
> 
> time to move on prepare ourselves for S400s and Rafales. never live in the past.
> 
> 
> having said that 26th feb was a day we were angry and frustrated and 27th was Allah's blessing. Allahmdulliah


Yes brother you're Right we must develop tactics against Rafale and S-400 we have option to study and develop tactics against these military equipment purchase by our enemy with friendly countries eg China/Turkey/ Qatar/Egypt


----------



## Tomcats

Desert Fox 1 said:


> But fortunately our armed forces didn't get carried away and learned many lessons. They looked at why we went down the first time especially when there were orders of shoot to kill. Who knows what happened to officers of MI(military intelligence) directorate who were held responsible of not being able to provide real time information and failed to inform the PAF of impending attack. Many a running horses and career officers of AAD and MI were superseded or deemed not fit because though they might be good at drawing lines on paper were unable to deliver in reality... These are my personal views
> @PanzerKiel @Raider 21 @Signalian @Windjammer @The Eagle @Reichmarshal @Air Wolf





Reichmarshal said:


> economy at the time was so weak that the govt. was struggling to pay salaries... wars are fought on the back of stable eco. our coffers back then were empty. couldn't afford war back then or even now.
> 
> they made the right call and we should appreciate them for it.


Well regarding the Military Intelligence i am unsure on what they did prior to India's Operation Bandar, however the 24 hours preceding Swift Retort was quite interesting. The target which PAF decided to strike against wasnt a random decision nor was it luck, it was a precision strike which had a message too. MI supposedly managed to pick up Indian Radio chatter which alluded to a VA (Valuable Asset) visit to the installation. Whenever a high profile person visits usually word is sent to all IAF personnel, cops, Auxiliary units etc and thus it was intercepted hence making it a perfect target. MI passed it on and when PAF asked for Target intelligence, PA handed them the biryani platter. The purpose was i'm guessing dually to make up for the incident at Balakot and tell them in a less subtle manner 'we are watching you'.

Also the economic effects during that time were detrimental in also helping to make some mistakes in decision making during the whole episode. If you want my opinion, Chinese loans are the primary reason and you better hope that we equalize ourselves with China otherwise we are in for a rude awakening.

@PanzerKiel @Air Wolf

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## DrWatson775

TheTallGuy said:


> Flat spin? 82kts -2333ft
> 
> My problem with Flight24 Radar location
> 
> i hope some learned people here take a look at it.



@maverick1977 

Maybe it had surrendered and came low with gear out. 80 knots is too low though , stall speed for a fighter that size. It will be one hell of a Sysiphean job if PAF has forced it to land and covered it up.

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## WinterFangs



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## Goenitz

I think posting reaction video is not a good thing, sir.. you can add it to the 27 feb thread..


----------



## WinterFangs

Goenitz said:


> I think posting reaction video is not a good thing, sir.. you can add it to the 27 feb thread..


Right, if a mod can move it there I’d appreciate it.

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## air marshal



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## PanzerKiel



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## Maarkhoor

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 730869


After Gen Musharraf ...Gen Asif Ghafoor is the best.....total gangsta style.

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## Ali_Baba

erm - what does it say?


----------



## Valiant

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 730869



Less talking, more doing................Home Depot style


----------



## AMRAAM

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 730869


Point #2 is love.

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## PanzerKiel

Has anyone heard of PAF other strike packages... Complete packages other than the one which bombed.... Those packages which confused the IAF and their ADGE, which forced dispersal on their CAPs, BARCAPs and ADA aircraft... Those packages which forced so much dispersal on IAF that the PAF was able to achieve quantitative as well as qualitative superiority in that specific sector.... Till today Indians scream that they it was unfair that PAF pitted so many aircraft against so few of them....?

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## F86 Saber

I think a lot of this data is confidential, obviously everyone knows which aircraft were used but the systems and tactics are confidential.

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## m52k85

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 730869


Sadly he will retire before the next army chief retires (Gen Hameed), otherwise he would have made a dabang COAS

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## Thorough Pro

One sane voice among a bunch of delusional patriots.




Trailer23 said:


> Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.
> 
> - aired on *2nd March, 2019*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC

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## Imran Khan

Trailer23 said:


> Not sure if this video was ever posted, but if it wasn't..., just see the way *Praveen Sawhney* (_Force Magazine_) gets looks from all the Veterans and Nitin while he speaks.
> 
> - aired on *2nd March, 2019*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Signalian @Bilal Khan (Quwa)​@araz @airomerix @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @Clairvoyant @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @khanasifm @masterchief_mirza @Mirage Battle Commander @Mrc @PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @Stealth @The Raven @TheTallGuy @White and Green with M/S @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC


we can not win from them in trolling i mean hundreds of millions of indians thinking ideas how to face safe and troll since 27 feb 

and here politicians can sale thier mothers for just a point scoring many have did treason in parliament and outside just to settle political score against pak military .

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## denel

ice_man said:


> Well that was 2 years ago. Now need to keep up the hard work.
> 
> there was time PAKISTAN was HOCKEY WORLD CHAMPION does anyone remember that now? NO
> 
> there was time PAKISTAN was CRICKET WORLD CHAMPION does anyone remember that now? NO
> 
> time to move on prepare ourselves for S400s and Rafales. never live in the past.
> 
> 
> having said that 26th feb was a day we were angry and frustrated and 27th was Allah's blessing. Allahmdulliah


I am nostagic for Hockey.... not cricket. Man, i would love to see Pak as they used to play before. They were the kings. Same in squash.

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## Thorough Pro

Field Hockey is now mostly a dead game, I never hear about it from any corner of the world.



denel said:


> I am nostagic for Hockey.... not cricket. Man, i would love to see Pak as they used to play before. They were the kings. Same in squash.


----------



## mshan44



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## ice_man

mshan44 said:


>



I think he loves the word dove tailed. too much repetition of the same point. However, the main point is his last sentence: 

We had our day in 65 we had our day on 27th Feb. Maybe India might have its day too but overall we are well poised to counter any threat.

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## ghazi52

The paintings / art work of winners of ‘Operations Swift Retort Arts Competition’ for school kids held at PAF Museum. Congratulations.

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

*If a fool persists in his folly---he may become wise---"*.

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## HAIDER

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168033342010249217

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## Titanium100

denel said:


> I am nostagic for Hockey.... not cricket. Man, i would love to see Pak as they used to play before. They were the kings. Same in squash.



Everything goes in circle in sport even in football.. Real Madrid and Barcelona are now going down slowly after more then 15 years duo in the Champions league winning totally together 8 times out of 15 times that is more then half

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## Reichmarshal

Titanium100 said:


> Everything goes in circle in sport even in football.. Real Madrid and Barcelona are now going down slowly after more then 15 years duo in the Champions league winning totally together 8 times out of 15 times that is more then half


Kiyah kay raha ha bhai

Real Madrid alone has 13 champions league titles, while was runners up in 3 seasons.
While Barcelona has 5 titles to its name.

Clubs like real Madrid or barcelona are not going any where, they are the richest clubs in the world with the largest world wide following.
The current slow down due to covid is a world wide phenomena experienced across the board.

Even this year when they did not spend any thing, real madrid are in the last 8 of the champions league and strong candidates to go all the way n win it.

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## Raja Porus

Titanium100 said:


> Everything goes in circle in sport even in football.. Real Madrid and Barcelona are now going down slowly after more then 15 years duo in the Champions league winning totally together 8 times out of 15 times that is more then half


Bhai look how real has jumped back in La Liga. They are just two points behind Atletico with 4 matches left to be played by each. They are doing good in UCL as well and Chelsea isn't that strong an opponent. However Barca is falling behind due to poor defence and mid.
(I am a bayern fan though)


Titanium100 said:


> Everything goes in circle in sport even in football.. Real Madrid and Barcelona are now going down slowly after more then 15 years duo in the Champions league winning totally together 8 times out of 15 times that is more then half





denel said:


> I am nostagic for Hockey.... not cricket. Man, i would love to see Pak as they used to play before. They were the kings. Same in squash.


Yep, want to see the likes of Hassan sardar, Samiullah, sohail Abbas and Shabaz Ahmed

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## HostileInsurgent

Had any Su-30MKI crossed the LoC that day?


----------



## Raja Porus

HostileInsurgent said:


> Had any Su-30MKI crossed the LoC that day?


Nopes.
We were the aggressors.

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## HostileInsurgent

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Nopes.
> We were the aggressors.


Then how did PAF “shot down two Indian aircraft in Pakistani airspace”???


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080

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## White and Green with M/S

HostileInsurgent said:


> Then how did PAF “shot down two Indian aircraft in Pakistani airspace”???
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080


Do you read the tweet you posted its clearly says MKI fell down in your part of Kashmir


----------



## Raja Porus

HostileInsurgent said:


> Then how did PAF “shot down two Indian aircraft in Pakistani airspace”???
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080


They were lured. And the SU30 fell in the Indian illegally occupied JK according to the tweet you posted.

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## HostileInsurgent

Desert Fox 1 said:


> They were lured. And the SU30 fell in the Indian illegally occupied JK according to the tweet you posted.


It says “shot down in Pakistani airspace”, which means it would have crossed LoC.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

HostileInsurgent said:


> It says “shot down in Pakistani airspace”, which means it would have crossed LoC.


LOL again nonsense only your MAHAN mig 21 Cross the LOC not your raptor of the East didn't Cross LOC that tweet clearly said ànd don't spread any more nonsense ànd conspiracy theories anymore

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## SQ8

HostileInsurgent said:


> It says “shot down in Pakistani airspace”, which means it would have crossed LoC.


Yes it says that because in those early hours the messaging was to ensure Pakistan was painted as rosy as possible. Its called managing the narrative like every country including yours does as well like claiming 300 children ages 3-16 dead.

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## White and Green with M/S

HostileInsurgent said:


> It says “shot down in Pakistani airspace”, which means it would have crossed LoC.


Mig-21 shot down in Pakistani airspace ànd MKI shot down in Indian airspace don't twist that tweet

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## HostileInsurgent

White and Green with M/S said:


> Mig-21 shot down in Pakistani airspace ànd MKI shot down in Indian airspace don't twist that tweet


Clearly says both shot down in Pak airspace

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080


----------



## Areesh

HostileInsurgent said:


> Clearly says both shot down in Pak airspace
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080



It clearly says that other fell in IOK

Aankhain khol k parh


----------



## White and Green with M/S

HostileInsurgent said:


> Clearly says both shot down in Pak airspace
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080


Don't troll this tweets said only for mig-21 MKI shot down in your airspace ànd don't bring nonsense of yours ànd don't reply me again you troll ànd believe what you want


----------



## SQ8

HostileInsurgent said:


> Look what’s written
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080
> So if MKI didn’t cross the LoC which was the 2nd aircraft shot down in Pak airspcae? #DoosraBanda. Period.


Maybe it wasn’t - the narrative from your military started with clouds then advanced munitions that only kill people inside a tin foil building. Also, this has been debunked multiple times so unless you have something actually new other than using the same tweet again and again , I’ll kick you off this thread.

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## Sifar zero

The Sandman said:


> I'm seeing a lot of members here trying their best to do minimize the humiliation saying it merely entered for 20 seconds and went back, some are saying they dropped payload on open ground and went back. Russian jet entered for 17 seconds in Turkish airspace and it was shot down and here they entered, dropped their payload and went back and response from "shaheens".? I can't believe members here are happy and saying "oh they went back in a few seconds" FFS they attacked Pakistani SOIL


Two years have passed now how do you feel?

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## Raja Porus

HostileInsurgent said:


> It says “shot down in Pakistani airspace”, which means it would have crossed LoC.


Indian illegally occupied JK is also part of Pakistan

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## SQ8

HostileInsurgent said:


> I gave a solid arguement, if you can’t answer then don’t flaunt your powers, at the end y’all have a habit of banning Indian members for no reason.


There isn’t a solid argument except spamming the same thing. Now get lost

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## MastanKhan

Titanium100 said:


> Everything goes in circle in sport even in football.. Real Madrid and Barcelona are now going down slowly after more then 15 years duo in the Champions league winning totally together 8 times out of 15 times that is more then half



Hi,

And what does that mean---?

It means that the weakest can learn from their mistakes and get better over time---and the strong---as good and as well trained that they are---there is a limit to them getting better & better---.

The PAF has reached a certain plateau of fighter pilot excellence---it is only a matter of time that the enemy would get there as well----and if the enemy cannot---then it will find AI to compensate for its shortcoming.

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## Titanium100

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> And what does that mean---?
> 
> It means that the weakest can learn from their mistakes and get better over time---and the strong---as good and as well trained that they are---there is a limit to them getting better & better---.
> 
> The PAF has reached a certain plateau of fighter pilot excellence---it is only a matter of time that the enemy would get there as well----and if the enemy cannot---then it will find AI to compensate for its shortcoming.



Sorry my mann. I was refering to cricket


----------



## Ghessan

MastanKhan said:


> and if the enemy cannot---then it will find AI to compensate for its shortcoming.



that route is open for everyone.

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## MastanKhan

Titanium100 said:


> Sorry my mann. I was refering to cricket



Hi,

That holds more truth in matter of life and death & you thought it only related to cricket---.


----------



## Titanium100

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That holds more truth in matter of life and death & you thought it only related to cricket---.



Class is permanent and the reason these sporting teams decline is because the newer once couldn't live up to the old guard


----------



## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

SQ8 said:


> There isn’t a solid argument except spamming the same thing. Now get lost



He is merely trying to cope with reality


----------



## khanasifm

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Bhai look how real has jumped back in La Liga. They are just two points behind Atletico with 4 matches left to be played by each. They are doing good in UCL as well and Chelsea isn't that strong an opponent. However Barca is falling behind due to poor defence and mid.
> (I am a bayern fan though)
> 
> 
> Yep, want to see the likes of Hassan sardar, Samiullah, sohail Abbas and Shabaz Ahmed
> View attachment 740171
> View attachment 740172
> View attachment 740173
> 
> View attachment 740174



Please do not share BS on this forum 

[emoji854][emoji6]

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## Zarvan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100694799777181696
Guys I just found a goldmine. 

@Windjammer @Horus @HRK @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @Arsalan @Path-Finder @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah

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## Windjammer

Zarvan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100694799777181696
> Guys I just found a goldmine.
> 
> @Windjammer @Horus @HRK @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @Arsalan @Path-Finder @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah


What's new in this Zarvan sahib.


----------



## Zarvan

Windjammer said:


> What's new in this Zarvan sahib.


Indian journalist that one pilot captured and one missing


Windjammer said:


> What's new in this Zarvan sahib.


They never admitted SU 30 loss except for first half and hour when they accidentally spoke truth.

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## Goenitz

Zarvan said:


> Indian journalist that one pilot captured and one missing


nope... he just stated the official version and retreated the name.

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## wasileo80

untitled said:


> OK next time I will translate _Sherdil_ as Tigerheart because context is understood in this case too
> 
> Instead of calling me names like grammar _Modi_, a better man would have accepted the word "Sher" was badly translated in this case


"Sherdil" is "Lionheart" not "tigerheart". Thanks


----------



## Riz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100695863427510272Few Pakistanis on that thread

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## ghazi52

Indian Military has finally released photographic evidence of how WG CMDR Abhinandan shot down the Pakistani F-16.
.

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## Riz

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 754009


He shoo downs same jet which shot downs his mig-21

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## Trailer23

Not certain if any of you may have posted this in the past.

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## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407841392232181769

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## Windjammer



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## Pak-Canuck

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 754009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Military has finally released photographic evidence of how WG CMDR Abhinandan shot down the Pakistani F-16.
> .



No no no dude, remember there was no evidence of a missile fired, it was more like this:

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## Thorough Pro

a goldmine or a gutter full of of filthy Indian brains?



Zarvan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100694799777181696
> Guys I just found a goldmine.
> 
> @Windjammer @Horus @HRK @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @Arsalan @Path-Finder @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah

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## The Raven

I think the Su-30MKI made it back to base, but badly damaged, which would be consistent with radar track data the PAF discussed with Alan Warnes, which certainly convinced him. In addition, the size and twin engines of the Su-30, as well as firing the AMRAAM at max envelope parameters, would certainly suggest the aircraft was damaged but just about flyable enough to limp back to base.

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## SQ8

The Raven said:


> I think the Su-30MKI made it back to base, but badly damaged, which would be consistent with radar track data the PAF discussed with Alan Warnes, which certainly convinced him. In addition, the size and twin engines of the Su-30, as well as firing the AMRAAM at max envelope parameters, would certainly suggest the aircraft was damaged but just about flyable enough to limp back to base.


Plenty of narratives exist - all coming from a fog of war which unfortunately will never be lifted. 
1. The AMRAAM missed but the MKI fled either way back in fear
2. The AMRAAM hit and the aircraft went down - backed up by the Mi-17 SAR theory
3. The AMRAAM hit and the aircraft made it back to base(what base?) - and possibly crashed on landing. 

There are "inside" pictures which either are correct or unauthentic showing burnt bodies and ejection seats tossed away but it is not verifiable. 
However, no serious analyst has given ANY credible support to the Indian claim of the F-16 and likely wont regardless of obscure Italians, Swedes or NRIs they drag into writing articles for them on facsimile blogs.

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## Ali_Baba

The Raven said:


> I think the Su-30MKI made it back to base, but badly damaged, which would be consistent with radar track data the PAF discussed with Alan Warnes, which certainly convinced him. In addition, the size and twin engines of the Su-30, as well as firing the AMRAAM at max envelope parameters, would certainly suggest the aircraft was damaged but just about flyable enough to limp back to base.



I think the Su30MKI got blasted to bits and the AMRAAM wreckage was pulled out of the arse of the downed Su30MKI. Only way they found the missiles wreckage so quickly.

Range has no bearing on the explosive effect of the warhead, max-envelope is a range based constraint, not a warhead.

The fact that India ordered 12 replacements Su30MKIs for 11 known crashes, is the proof me that "Avenger 1" got blasted to hell. The fact that the Indians got a random Su30MKI and then pretended to say that was Avenger 1 during a flyby with a Mirage tells me that the Su30MKI Avenger 1 plane got blased to hell.

The fact that 2 Indian Airforce offices somehow "crashed into a tree" driving in the middle of the night tells me that the pilots went down with their aircraft.

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## The Raven

Ali_Baba said:


> I think the Su30MKI got blasted to bits and the AMRAAM wreckage was pulled out of the arse of the downed Su30MKI. Only way they found the missiles wreckage so quickly.
> 
> Range has no bearing on the explosive effect of the warhead, max-envelope is a range based constraint, not a warhead.
> 
> The fact that India ordered 12 replacements Su30MKIs for 11 known crashes, is the proof me that "Avenger 1" got blasted to hell. The fact that the Indians got a random Su30MKI and then pretended to say that was Avenger 1 during a flyby with a Mirage tells me that the Su30MKI Avenger 1 plane got blased to hell.
> 
> The fact that 2 Indian Airforce offices somehow "crashed into a tree" driving in the middle of the night tells me that the pilots went down with their aircraft.



You misunderstood. I made no reference to the association between blast effect and range. My point about the max envelope firing solution was the fact that if the AMRAAM was at the end of its kinematic flight envelope, i.e. effectively coasting and bleeding energy, and it would reduce the chance of a direct impact on a manoeuvring target, and given the Flanker's twin engine and size, it could limp back to base, depending on the damage.

But whatever happened, whether the Flanker made it back to base or crashed, I agree that they clearly lost a Flanker, given the number of orders for attrition replacements, the scrambling of the SAR mission (they may have been unsure whether it crashed or would make it back to base), and the rather pathetic attempt at convincing the global audience with the charade of the "Avenger" call sign. The global fighter pilot community all know they lost a Flanker that day.

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## graphican

The Raven said:


> You misunderstood. I made no reference to the association between blast effect and range. My point about the max envelope firing solution was the fact that if the AMRAAM was at the end of its kinematic flight envelope, i.e. effectively coasting and bleeding energy, and it would reduce the chance of a direct impact on a manoeuvring target, and given the Flanker's twin engine and size, it could limp back to base, depending on the damage.
> 
> But whatever happened, whether the Flanker made it back to base or crashed, I agree that they clearly lost a Flanker, given the number of orders for attrition replacements, the scrambling of the SAR mission (they may have been unsure whether it crashed or would make it back to base), and the rather pathetic attempt at convincing the global audience with the charade of the "Avenger" call sign. The global fighter pilot community all know they lost a Flanker that day.



If damaged Su-30 had made it to the base, they would not have flown a helicopter to look over the jungles.

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## Pak-Canuck

graphican said:


> If damaged Su-30 had made it to the base, they would not have flown a helicopter to look over the jungles.



Exactly, that's what Allan Warnes concluded.

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## The Raven

graphican said:


> If damaged Su-30 had made it to the base, they would not have flown a helicopter to look over the jungles.



Maybe, or they weren't sure whether it had crashed or made it back to base, especially if coms were being jammed.


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## StructE

graphican said:


> If damaged Su-30 had made it to the base, they would not have flown a helicopter to look over the jungles.


Exactly, there was no reason for the helicopter to be airborne at that time.


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## raja786

Windjammer said:


>


I have even better proof then this on indian news channel one of there expert admetting that there were 2 jets shot down by PAF. If required I'll post that video link.


The Raven said:


> I think the Su-30MKI made it back to base, but badly damaged, which would be consistent with radar track data the PAF discussed with Alan Warnes, which certainly convinced him. In addition, the size and twin engines of the Su-30, as well as firing the AMRAAM at max envelope parameters, would certainly suggest the aircraft was damaged but just about flyable enough to limp back to base.


Nope my friend it was shot down and both pilots were killed.


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## ghazi52

Finally after 2+ years Indian Armed Forces & public have located the "Hole" in the roof of a building after surgical strike.

The ONLY problem is that the building belongs to Indian Air Force & its IAF's Air Station Jammu.

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## raja786

Here is that proof on Feb 27th PAF shoot down 2 jets. Who will deny this.




Watch from 25min onwards.

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## GriffinsRule

raja786 said:


> Here is that proof on Feb 27th PAF shoot down 2 jets. Who will deny this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch from 25min onwards.


Quiet sensible analysis

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## raja786

This video


GriffinsRule said:


> Quiet sensible analysis


Sure it is, but it only came after Pakistani response.

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## ejaz007

raja786 said:


> I have even better proof then this on indian news channel one of there expert admetting that there were 2 jets shot down by PAF. If required I'll post that video link.
> 
> Nope my friend it was shot down and both pilots were killed.



Are you sure both pilots died?


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## raja786

ejaz007 said:


> Are you sure both pilots died?


Yes they died it was reported later on in indian media that 2 su30 pilots died in road traffic accidents. In early hours on 27th few photos and videos were on YouTube and Twitter but they got deleted, I dont know if anyone has them one can see 2 burned bodies.

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## raja786

Here is a link. Go through all the comments and news. 








Pulwama: 2 IAF personnel killed in road 'accident' outside Awantipora base | India News - Times of India


India News: "Four IAF personnel met an accident this morning at Malngpora in Awantipora. Two of the injured personnel succumbed to injuries," the official said, w




timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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## Windjammer



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## jedijedi

raja786 said:


> Sure it is, but it only came after Pakistani response.



Ravish Kumar for the longest time been known as a sensible journalist who doesn't tow the same line as the right wing nationalist media!


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## ghazi52

Touch the sky with glory .
.
.
.
.
. then come crashing to the ground.

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## Goenitz

raja786 said:


> This video
> 
> Sure it is, but it only came after Pakistani response.


His 26 Feb analysis is also good.. but he seemed a little rejoiced in that moment.

I think there are 4 air bases in J&K.. 2 are in Kashmir and 2 r in Laddakh. So, why a combat S&R mission was launched if the plane made it back to the air base (both bases are nearby in Srinagar area?)

Nonetheless, no satellite pic shows any wreckage, which also means the Su-30 didn't crash.


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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399104183945596933

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## jedijedi

HostileInsurgent said:


> It says “shot down in Pakistani airspace”, which means it would have crossed LoC.





HostileInsurgent said:


> Clearly says both shot down in Pak airspace
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100641491679150080



You are nitpicking a tweet from Gen Ghafoor quoting MoFA at 11:19AM, approximately an hour after the events. Neither Asif Ghafoor, nor MoFA had direct access to the radar picture, they were just relaying Air Force's provided summary with Pakistan's official narrative of responsible proportionate retaliation baked in.

If you think that's a smoking gun exposing Pakistan, look at the other side. I am quoting AVM RGK Kapoor verbatim from the first official presser that IAF held about the Feb 27 events, almost a day after the events.



> On 27th February at around 10:00 hours, IAF radars detected a large package of PAF aircrafts, heading towards the Indian territory, towards general area Jhangar. *They breached Indian Air space *west of Rajauri in the Sunderbani area*. The ingressing aircraft* were observed to be at various levels. IAF fighters including Mig 21, Su30 and Mirage 2000 were tasked to intercept the* intruding PAF aircraft*. PAF aircraft attempting to target our military installations were intercepted by the IAF fighters which foiled their attack. Although PAF bombs have fallen in the Indian Army compounds, however they were unable to cause damage to our military installations. In the aerial combat that ensued....


 - Source 1* 1:42

Let's break it down.

- The pronoun is *'They'* refers to PAF jets. There is no other subject in the sentence so no doubt he was referring to the aforementioned PAF jets. *'Breached'* has only 1 meaning.
- The *'ingressing aircraft'* doubles down on it, reaffirming the earlier, removing any doubt.
- *'intruding PAF aircraft'* confirms it a third time that IAF wants to suggest PAF crossed LoC.

^^ How ironic is it that you claim you foiled the adversary's attack while admitting that they not only shot your jet in their territory but also landed ordnance inside your military compounds!

In June, ACM Dhanoa backed out from these claims. I quote him, again verbatim.

*"They did not come into our air space.", "none of them (let me tell you) crossed into our territory"
'Pak didn't cross LoC during Feb 27 dogfight' - *Source 2*

Can you answer this backtracking?

Remember, IAF spent 32+ hours to prepare the first statement and set the narrative. It was IAF's own AVM RGK Kapoor no less making the statement unlike Pakistan where an Army General quoted MoFA quoting PAF. Despite having the advantage of direct statement, IAF mentioned three times that PAF crossed LoC to paint PAF as aggressor.
To further that narrative, AVM Kapoor showed a shard from an exploded AMRAAM. Imagine how important this all was, that they flew a hunk of metal from J&K to Delhi, you can't say they didn't prepare or plan this!

After this first presser on Feb 28th evening, how does the picture look.

- IAF claims about Balakot are already starting to unravel and neutral media is starting to question IAF's claims.
- PAF fulfills its promise of retaliation, lands ordnance in J&K leaving just a shard of AMRAAM in IAF possession
- PAF has downed a Mig21 capturing the pilot.
- IAF claims to have shot down an F16 with not an iota of evidence.
- IAF knows it has downed its own Mi17 but the world is slowly starting to pick up. Even early media reports quotes locals hearing a "Loud" bang.
- 7 unfortunate souls passed away and IAF knows it can't hide the bodies.
- IAF again claims an F16 without an iota of credible evidence. Not a rivet, not a video, not a pilot, nothing but smoke, literal smoke!

Now why would IAF want to lie and say PAF crossed LoC when PAF said it didn't. Why would IAF say that a force with less than fifth the budget and less than half the size crossed into its home to land blows. This completely goes against what India wants to project, i.e. it thwarted PAF and deterred it from getting anywhere near.
The only logical reason is the Mi17 whose wreckage lay with 7 bodies out in the open. There were 2 possibilities and IAF took 1 of them

1- IAF could save some face. It is unimaginably embarrassing to admit that we shot our own Mi17 60kms from the hot zone, we were just that scared!

2- distant second. IAF could let PAF take the bait it threw by claiming PAF crossed. PAF was legitimately given the chance by IAF themselves to claim Mi17 but IAF knew it shot it in fratricide. IAF then had a good chance to drag PAF in mud by admitting 'blue on blue' later which it had to any way. PAF would be pulling its hair in such a case for it would diminish an otherwise glorious page in its history.

Both these didn't fly much. PAF didn't take the bait and IAF found out the rough way that tweeps can't believe how IAF let a flock of birds cross without shooting any.

Hoping against hope, IAF take a month for things to die down but they don't. Indians want blood just like Pakistanis wanted Blood on Feb 26th but there was no Feb 28th for Indian public.

Month down the line, early April:
No evidence of F16 shows up, how can it when there was no F16 shot down. No US support to support Indian narrative, no neutral support. What does IAF do, it continues the same story by

- Quoting 'soldiers' on LoC who saw 2 planes go down! Yes, our soldiers loyal to our forces and nation saw an adversary's jet go down. Of course!
- Radar pictures in a controlled media briefing that of course cannot be verified for 'official secrecy'. All you see is a couple of images in a power point presentation. No credible journalist buys it but they can't openly go against IAF as it would be 'unpatriotic'.
- References to smoke trails, parachutes, all Conjecture and a kid can rip bullet holes through those theories.

As a rule of thumb, when 1.2 billion people desperate for evidence can only find seemingly suspended smoke trails in the air as the only evidence of shooting down a fighter jet, you know you've lost.
Sorry, but it is what it is!

*Additional Notes:* It takes new ACM RKS Bhadauria to come in and publicly admit what the public already knew that Mi17 was fratricide. This was deliberately delayed to give former ACM BS Dhanoa a dignified exit and not have him face humiliation of admitting IAF's major failure under his own watch!

*Summary:* Gen Ghafoor said 2 IAF jets crossed while IAF spokesperson said PAF crossed!
Who was right? Well technically both were wrong.
Gen Ghafoor less so because 1 IAF craft definitely crossed, the infamous Mig21 Bison but since PAF couldn't admit that they launched an AMRAAM on a Su30 across in J&K which never crossed, they said 2 jets crossed.

Source 1: 



 - Start at 1:42
Source 2:

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## graphican

jedijedi said:


> Source 2:



IAF chief is himself defending Pakistan by saying PAF didn't enter into Indian airspace. We see India repeat this pattern against China now. India is refusing that China violated LAC or captured their territory although they've lost territories to them. 

That's the convenience Indian military forces offer to the intruders.


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## jedijedi

graphican said:


> IAF chief is himself defending Pakistan by saying PAF didn't enter into Indian airspace. We see India repeat this pattern against China now. India is refusing that China violated LAC or captured their territory although they've lost territories to them.
> 
> That's the convenience Indian military forces offer to the intruders.



Again this is just a view point. PAF likely did not cross LoC as there was no need. If PAF could safely land SoWs across the LoC, why risk crossing into enemy air space and risk getting shot. Outcomes matter in war, and you would not take any chances that could cause an unfavorable outcome unless you absolutely have no other choice.
Multiple reports even from India confirm WC Abhinandan was asked to turn cold for the same reason but he was jammed.
A lot of Indians nitpick DG ISPR's statements but fail to address multiple contradictions in their own narrative due to the selective blindness caused by their bias.

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## -blitzkrieg-

Pages 125-130 are fun.. I often come to this thread to see the moment indians knew they were roughed up for a misadventure.The loud ones curled up their tail and disappeared.

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## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417508341706858496

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## Trailer23

Since IAF/Indian Government/Indian Media have all given various versions of what happened on that eventful day, lets have a look see at what a Indian Defense Analyst states what actually happened.

Control your laughter till the end.

It has to be noted that according to this video...a Economically Strong country like India was smart not to waste its multi-million dollar Missiles, however, a poor Country like Pakistan launching its AMRAAMS like Water-Balloons.

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## SQ8

Trailer23 said:


> Since IAF/Indian Government/Indian Media have all given various versions of what happened on that eventful day, lets have a look see at what a Indian Defense Analyst states what actually happened.
> 
> Control your laughter till the end.
> 
> It has to be noted that according to this video...a Economically Strong country like India was smart not to waste its multi-million dollar Missiles, however, a poor Country like Pakistan launching its AMRAAMS like Water-Balloons.


Most of today’s online Indians come from disheveled and lost family backgrounds and value their small egos for which they are willing to sell their mother’s into prostitution just to get cherry points. Its why they come to PDF, not by some sinister wish to just troll but by an inate need to not let any criticism or slight stand and somehow let their delusional Bollywood narrative of self be harmed even one bit.

Much like an infestation, you can debate to death and leave them baffled and go to sleep, and they will spend all night and day if need be to try and come back and regain their “honor” .

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## jedijedi

So i'm quoting some of his words verbatim.

*"Enemy se dur rehne mei ap ko faida yeh hota hai k enemy apki taraf missile fire karay tu apko us se bachnay ka moka mil jata hai aur palat kar moka milta hai, jitna close jaen ge enemy ki missile utni ghatak ho jae gi ap k liye" - *no s**t Sherlock

*"*Jab Pakistani F16 ne apni AMRAAM launch *'kari' ho gi* tu *ho sakta hai* jo Indian Aircraft wahan patrolling *kar rahay hon* unho ne launch ko *anticipate* *na 'kara' ho* aur *jab warning mila ho* tu dodge karnay ki *koshish 'kari' ho* aur jis direction se *jo missile aa rahi hai* us k *ulta janay ki koshish kari ho" ...

^^ Expert with bazillion hypotheticals

" ..................... isse bhagna nahi, cold jana kehtay hain". <-- 🧠 🔥 

"Jo Pakistan ne kiya woh face saving k liye tha. Agar escalate karna hota tu woh dobara recommit kartay jo unho ne nahi kiya" *- No Geronimo, tum ne video face saving k liye banaya.

PAF landed SOW, with video evidence, shot down a jet either side (or at least downed one and hit the other), spooked IAF into shooting its own Mi17, dobara recommit karna chaiye tha yeh karne k baad! I feel bad for his parents and those of his subscribers.



"Apni range mei agar in teeno (AMRAAM, R77, MICA RF) mei sab se zada koi missile thi tu MICA RF thi jo 80km ki range deti hai head-on chase mei
*(So IAF had the better missile) *

woh karan ho skta hai Indian aircraft hain unho ne missile launch nahi kari
*(They didn't fire because they had the better missile?)*.

kyun k yeh BVR combat puri tareeqay se hua nahi
*(WVR nahi aaye tu BVR hua na shaanay???)*

dono aik doosray ko marnay nahi aaye thay
*(marnay nahi Dandiya khelnay aaye thay aik Su30MKI tu pura "Bhumbro" song performance prepare kar k aya tha aur usi performance mei AMRAAM dodge kiye)*.

F16 ne missile launch 'kari' us k baad woh cold ho k ghar nikal gaye
*(woh kya beth k akhbaar parhtay)*.

Idher Su30 pilot ne apne skill ko dikhaya
*(PAF aee, bomb phenkay, aur ghar nikal gai, us k baad Su30MKI skill dikhanay aaye... Ap Chronology Samajiye!)*

jahan par multiple AMRAAM ko dodge kiya jo bohat he zada mushkil task hota hai. Escalate nahi karna tha
*(Yes, 24 PAF jets show on radar but maybe sight seeing karne aye hon)*,

ho sakta hai border cross karne ki permission na ho
*(tu Abhinandan basically got shot cz he tried to be Macho????)*"

I usually don't say this but I want to have my ears professionally cleaned after hearing the croaky lame rationale. I regret skimming the vid and wasting a few mins on it.
Indians have since the day cited the mentality behind "kitna deti hai" Indian adage as justification for not firing at PAF. Yes of course it was frugality and not lack of a longer punching arm. Yes, you are running out of AAMs.
Imagine the priceless reward of shooting a jet especially on that day. The last PAF casualty Indians celebrate to this day is the cold war era fratricide of a PAF F16, imagine what Indians would be willing to pay to land a PAF jet using their own missile.
I start believing the figures of stunted mental growth in children of the subcontinent when I see these so called clickbait defense analysts and their thousands of subscribers.
They know nothing, pickup tidbits of fancy jargon while they compile videos after reading a couple of articles. It's learning as you lecture the public.



Trailer23 said:


> Since IAF/Indian Government/Indian Media have all given various versions of what happened on that eventful day, lets have a look see at what a Indian Defense Analyst states what actually happened.
> 
> Control your laughter till the end.
> 
> It has to be noted that according to this video...a Economically Strong country like India was smart not to waste its multi-million dollar Missiles, however, a poor Country like Pakistan launching its AMRAAMS like Water-Balloons.

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## Ghessan

Trailer23 said:


> Since IAF/Indian Government/Indian Media have all given various versions of what happened on that eventful day, lets have a look see at what a Indian Defense Analyst states what actually happened.
> 
> Control your laughter till the end.
> 
> It has to be noted that according to this video...a Economically Strong country like India was smart not to waste its multi-million dollar Missiles, however, a poor Country like Pakistan launching its AMRAAMS like Water-Balloons.


bravo, i must say bravo .... hats off .... can we hire this "annalist"

says we went cold, but PAF said they stayed there and waited.

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## Goenitz

Why #IndianAirForce downed their own #Mi17 helicopter on February 27 last year? Analyst AVM. Shahzad Chaudhry (r) says the electromagnetic spectrum was quite confusing for Indian Air Force on that day, which led to the incident.

Take away: Network centric warfare is required. India, listen to praven swahney


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## Trailer23

Just a few months old, but I thought i'd share with you all - at the off chance you missed it.

I've already time-stamped it at 6:00, so just click '_*Play*_'.

_Pravin Sawhney_ (once again) gives his straight forward views of the Balakot Strikes & the response.

[Yaar, ye bunda tou Indian Armed Forces ke patloon utar-daita hai - without remorse]






@araz @airomerix @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @ARMalik @Cookie Monster @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @iLION12345_1 @masterchief_mirza @Metal 0-1 @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Riz @Stealth @The Accountant @The Raven @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Trango Towers @Viper27 @White and Green with M/S @Yasser76 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC

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## GumNaam

Trailer23 said:


> Just a few months old, but I thought i'd share with you all - at the off chance you missed it.
> 
> I've already time-stamped it at 6:00, so just click '_*Play*_'.
> 
> _Pravin Sawhney_ (once again) gives his straight forward views of the Balakot Strikes & the response.
> 
> [Yaar, ye bunda tou Indian Armed Forces ke patloon utar-daita hai - without remorse]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @araz @airomerix @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @ARMalik @Cookie Monster @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @iLION12345_1 @masterchief_mirza @Metal 0-1 @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Riz @Stealth @The Accountant @The Raven @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Trango Towers @Viper27 @White and Green with M/S @Yasser76 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC


negative. people like pravin sawhney are die hard indian patriots and resent the piss poor performance of the politicized indian military. Pakistan's intelligencia will do well not to let people pravin sawhney's intellect come into power or even become influencers...We WANT to keep ignorance violin players like surrendera modi in charge so that india continues to burn.

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## Trango Towers

Trailer23 said:


> Just a few months old, but I thought i'd share with you all - at the off chance you missed it.
> 
> I've already time-stamped it at 6:00, so just click '_*Play*_'.
> 
> _Pravin Sawhney_ (once again) gives his straight forward views of the Balakot Strikes & the response.
> 
> [Yaar, ye bunda tou Indian Armed Forces ke patloon utar-daita hai - without remorse]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @araz @airomerix @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @ARMalik @Cookie Monster @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @iLION12345_1 @masterchief_mirza @Metal 0-1 @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Riz @Stealth @The Accountant @The Raven @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Trango Towers @Viper27 @White and Green with M/S @Yasser76 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC


Still he is an Indian...failed to admit the su30mki loss


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## Trailer23

Trango Towers said:


> Still he is an Indian...failed to admit the su30mki loss


[Yaar, tumhay tou pakee-pakai Biryani bhe ch-ye - aur ye bhee demand kar rahy ho kay khoobsorat pardosan (neighbor) khood dai kar jaey.]

Ofcourse he's not going to mention something that _*we too*_ haven't given any hard evidence of ourselves.

But the fact of the matter is that he's very critical of the IAF & their performance. I may be wrong, but I think he served with one of their Armed Forces. I don't know, maybe i'm confusing him with someone else.

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## Riz

Trailer23 said:


> Just a few months old, but I thought i'd share with you all - at the off chance you missed it.
> 
> I've already time-stamped it at 6:00, so just click '_*Play*_'.
> 
> _Pravin Sawhney_ (once again) gives his straight forward views of the Balakot Strikes & the response.
> 
> [Yaar, ye bunda tou Indian Armed Forces ke patloon utar-daita hai - without remorse]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @araz @airomerix @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @SQ8 @Windjammer @The Eagle @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @ARMalik @Cookie Monster @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @iLION12345_1 @masterchief_mirza @Metal 0-1 @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @PAKISTANFOREVER @Path-Finder @PWFI @Rafi @Riz @Stealth @The Accountant @The Raven @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @TheTallGuy @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Trango Towers @Viper27 @White and Green with M/S @Yasser76 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @PradoTLC


Guys like Pravin Sawhney are real dangerous for us because he is using his brain, he is not BJP or Indian military hater , but he just hammering them to stop talking silly and learn new tactics to dater pak and china together

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## jedijedi

Trailer23 said:


> _Pravin Sawhney_ (once again) gives his straight forward views of the Balakot Strikes & the response.
> [Yaar, ye bunda tou Indian Armed Forces ke patloon utar-daita hai - without remorse]



- He's doing India good if he's pointing out mistakes. People like him reduce the risk of complacency creeping in.
- He pointed out something "ap (Army) Rajneeti se nikal jaaye". Imagine some veteran said the same thing in Pakistan, someone who had retired at the rank of Pravin Sawhney (I think he retired a captain or major). People would've mocked his rank a million times before dismissing him as an Indian agent or anti-national.



GumNaam said:


> negative. people like pravin sawhney are die hard indian patriots and resent the piss poor performance of the politicized indian military. Pakistan's intelligencia will do well not to let people pravin sawhney's intellect come into power or even become influencers...We WANT to keep ignorance violin players like surrendera modi in charge so that india continues to burn.



- Indian armed forces have become increasingly politicized for the past 20+ years. Kargil (without commenting on absolute results) was a real shock for India and their generals had to resort to politicking to save face for getting caught off guard. Some in the ruling party wanted blood and generals had no real choice but to find political support and this has only increased with time. Unfortunately our generals helped themselves into politics in the 50s so by 1971, they already had enough influence in politics to not face full accountability. Here are some key takeaways and lessons for us.

Indian Army's politicking has had a detrimental effect on India's defenses. We should also think how something that has hurt Myanmar, Bangladesh, Iran, India in our region would not hurt Pakistan (military diving in politics).
Indian army has its own Army of right wing hyper-national patriots these days who amplify the IT cell's influence by freely taking down any resentment towards Indian forces. Anyone criticizing Army (people like Sawhney) are raked over the coals and called anti-nationals. Sawhney keeps Indian defense forces honest and wants them to be more answerable. We agree he's a die hard Indian patriot but he's labeled as anti-national in his country. Similarly, if someone wants our Army to be more answerable and be less political, shouldn't he be considered a die hard patriot Pakistani and not an anti-national? Sometimes lessons to be learnt are so obvious, lest we reflect.
By any stretch, India's Army isn't as politicized as ours, not yet at least.
- Sawhney has been photographed at Pakistan's stalls at defense expos, he seems well respected. That often riles the less blessed in the neurological department in India to doubt his patriotism which is the most we can expect to gain with his connection to Pakistan.
Also, your quote 'India continues to burn' is a bit of a stretch. They're not behind us in macroeconomic or human development indicators so if they're burning, where are we. We should seriously think why we always think about pulling someone down the ladder instead of rising up higher ourselves. The latter requires us to work harder! I am sure you agree China has benefited more by building its economy and industrial prowess vs US and Japan than by its espionage efforts!



Trango Towers said:


> Still he is an Indian...failed to admit the su30mki loss



- Su30MKI was largely inconsequential soon after the incident in light of Mig21/Abhinandan, Mi17 fratricide and 0 evidence of F16. Why expect an Indian to admit it when PAF that shot the jet never felt compelled to release any evidence in the public domain. For what its worth, he didn't support India's F16 claim either which is still better than 99% of Indians who cannot process what was fairly obvious from the day of the incident.



Trailer23 said:


> I think he served with one of their Armed Forces. I don't know, maybe i'm confusing him with someone else.



He served with the Indian Army and retired quite early. Imagine a Pakistani retired captain taking our generals to task, and how he would be treated in Pakistan. I'd wager worse than how Indians treat Sawhney!



Riz said:


> Guys like Pravin Sawhney are real dangerous for us because he is using his brain



Pakistani guys similar to Sawhney's critics in India are a greater danger to us. Those who search JF17 on Youtube, Twitter and bombard every video with silly comments rather than make them useful for Pakistan.

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## Trailer23

jedijedi said:


> Pakistani guys similar to Sawhney's critics in India are a greater danger to us. Those who search JF17 on Youtube, Twitter and bombard every video with silly comments rather than make them useful for Pakistan.


There is that one guy who was a journalist of some sort, but was kicked out for some reason. I think he's somewhere in Europe & has some YouTube Channel where he spits Venom towards Pakistan.

One should read the 'Comments' on his videos by his Indian fanbase. 'Sir' is the tile used for him.

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## Goenitz

@Windjammer @HRK 
How plausible is this hunch. I also agree with this hypohesis bcz the heli was too deep for the DF-20


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## 313ghazi

Goenitz said:


> @Windjammer @HRK
> How plausible is this hunch. I also agree with this hypohesis bcz the heli was too deep for the DF-20


IDK about his hunch but his opinion on limited warfare because of American influence is out-dated. They're done playing world police for now.

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## Goenitz

313ghazi said:


> limited warfare because of American influence is out-dated.


Still, they can limit the conflict between Pak/India. I am afraid more about short sightedness of Dehli. Modi/Yogi (Jogi) like can influence I.General's recommendation and can escalate to higher level. Currently, media, judiciary, CDS chief all have been subjugated. A spineless general can surrender to extremist PM wishes and can do out of the box thing. Perhaps, US even won't have time to mediate.


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## HRK

Goenitz said:


> @Windjammer @HRK
> How plausible is this hunch. I also agree with this hypohesis bcz the heli was too deep for the DF-20


Quite Possible but again all are theories as whatever information is available in open source is opposite to his hunch ....

Just as an example: fratricide of Indian Helicopter indicated that the radar of Spider SAM was working properly as it successfully detected and tracked the helicopter as target .... So if Indian were also employing EW ad were jamming "All the Frequencies _including their own_" than how their raddars were working properly and why they chose to jamm only that frequency which was used for their own communication .... ???

Its quite illogical (at least for me)

Keep in mind our Jets were not in the vicinity where this incident took place, so there was no reason for the employment of EW by PAF in tha area.

Our blinders were flying on our side of LOC so it could not be case of EW by PAF


Goenitz said:


> @Windjammer @HRK
> How plausible is this hunch. I also agree with this hypohesis bcz the heli was too deep for the DF-20



I think @Signalian is the right person to respond to your query

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## Goenitz

HRK said:


> "All the Frequencies _including their own_" than how their raddars were working properly and why they chose to jamm only that frequency which was used for their own communication .... ???







__





27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR


Why #IndianAirForce downed their own #Mi17 helicopter on February 27 last year? Analyst AVM. Shahzad Chaudhry (r) says the electromagnetic spectrum was quite confusing for Indian Air Force on that day, which led to the incident. Take away: Network centric warfare is required. India, listen to...



defence.pk




This post explains that due to lack of synergy and coordination, this can happen.
The jammer guys on command, just jammed everything. He might not know the comms used byt IAF/IA etc.

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## ummarz

HRK said:


> Quite Possible but again all are theories as whatever information is available in open source is opposite to his hunch ....
> 
> Just as an example: fratricide of Indian Helicopter indicated that the radar of Spider SAM was working properly as it successfully detected and tracked the helicopter as target .... So if Indian were also employing EW ad were jamming "All the Frequencies _including their own_" than how their raddars were working properly and why they chose to jamm only that frequency which was used for their own communication .... ???
> 
> Its quite illogical (at least for me)
> 
> Keep in mind our Jets were not in the vicinity where this incident took place, so there was no reason for the employment of EW by PAF in tha area.
> 
> Our blinders were flying on our side of LOC so it could not be case of EW by PAF
> 
> 
> I think @Signalian is the right person to respond to your query


Perhaps he meant that they jammed the communications between air defence and HSR heli. Most likely the IAF never properly trained for a situation of having to use HSR with that particular air defence unit before.

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## jedijedi

Trailer23 said:


> There is that one guy who was a journalist of some sort, but was kicked out for some reason. I think he's somewhere in Europe & has some YouTube Channel where he spits Venom towards Pakistan.
> 
> One should read the 'Comments' on his videos by his Indian fanbase. 'Sir' is the tile used for him.



Tarek Fatah? Tahir Gora? I think both are in Canada and often collaborate with each other... My point wasn't about haters and hecklers who have been booted out and have a personal gripe against Pakistan or Army specifically, it was about real rational people with a thoughtful perspective!


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## ghazi52



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## HRK

ummarz said:


> Perhaps he meant that they jammed the communications between air defence and HSR heli. Most likely the IAF never properly trained for a situation of having to use HSR with that particular air defence unit before.


Whatever the case may be one thing is sure their HR was not train enough abd was not ready to perform in such situation. 

This thing help us that but we might not be that luck for next time

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## Trailer23



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## PanzerKiel

Just a reminder

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## PakFactor

PanzerKiel said:


> Just a reminder
> 
> 
> View attachment 776111
> View attachment 776112
> View attachment 776113
> View attachment 776114
> View attachment 776116
> View attachment 776115





What about the piece of paper you guys made him vomit out after sticking fingers in his mouth?

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## Path-Finder

rent a roach.

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## Riz

PanzerKiel said:


> Just a reminder
> 
> 
> View attachment 776111
> View attachment 776112
> View attachment 776113
> View attachment 776114
> View attachment 776116
> View attachment 776115


Where is abhinanadan pant ?? Which turned brownish with his BRAVERY

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## Solidify

Here is video super short documentary from National Geographic on Feb 27 PAF Operation swift Retort
Don't know if posted before but a great factual video PAF operation swift retort


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## Path-Finder

Solidify said:


> Here is video super short documentary from National Geographic on Feb 27 PAF Operation swift Retort
> Don't know if posted before but a great factual video PAF operation swift retort


its NOT Nat Geo. you have fallen for fakery.

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## Trailer23

Path-Finder said:


> View attachment 776494
> 
> 
> rent a roach.


Notice how _Rent-a-Roach_ is using the word '*DEMAND*' on the placard?

First hashtag reads '*#NoToWar*', but probably has _Maj. Gurav Arya_ & _GD Bakwas_ on his twitter handle.

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## Path-Finder

Trailer23 said:


> Notice how _Rent-a-Roach_ is using the word '*DEMAND*' on the placard?
> 
> First hashtag reads '*#NoToWar*', but probably has _Maj. Gurav Arya_ & _GD Bakwas_ on his twitter handle.


that roach was or is still part of a group of wanna be Che-Guerra's waving red flags and asking for restoration of student unions which are banned. there was a girl with this cretin forgot her name, she was constantly seen alongside manzoor pisteen as well. 

its funding must come from india.


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## khanasifm




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## maverick1977

went over the thread, interesting to see events unfold and people emotions and anxiousness and anticipation


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## SQ8

maverick1977 said:


> went over the thread, interesting to see events unfold and people emotions and anxiousness and anticipation


Unfortunately, we gave the biggest weakness away by talking about how we could hear their comms - thats like the allies letting the germans know they broke Enigma after El-Alamein.
One could argue the Indians would have found this out or knew this already, but when you write of it on a level that provides proof for requesting additional funds from civil oversight then you shoot yourselin the foot.

65, PAF snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
71, PAF snatched defeat from the jaws of victory

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## Trailer23

[Ay hai...]

Could one of you Gentlemen use your contacts & somehow get this image to *Gp Capt. Noman Ali Khan*.

I'm sure he'd like to get it framed to depict what Abhi looked like moments before he was unceremoniously brought down on Planet Earth - courtesy of an _*AMRAAM*_.




​@Windjammer @Hodor

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## Raider 21

Trailer23 said:


> [Ay hai...]
> 
> Could one of you Gentlemen use your contacts & somehow get this image to *Gp Capt. Noman Ali Khan*.
> 
> I'm sure he'd like to get it framed to depict what Abhi looked like moments before he was unceremoniously brought down on Planet Earth - courtesy of an _*AMRAAM*_.
> 
> View attachment 782496
> ​@Windjammer @Hodor








Here is one when I visiting home a few months ago. The sketch on the left was sent to Noman Ali Khan.

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## Windjammer

Trailer23 said:


> [Ay hai...]
> 
> Could one of you Gentlemen use your contacts & somehow get this image to *Gp Capt. Noman Ali Khan*.
> 
> I'm sure he'd like to get it framed to depict what Abhi looked like moments before he was unceremoniously brought down on Planet Earth - courtesy of an _*AMRAAM*_.
> 
> View attachment 782496
> ​@Windjammer @Hodor


I have shared it to some one close to G/C Nauman Ali and he has promised to forward it to the Gentleman.

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## Aesterix

SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately, we gave the biggest weakness away by talking about how we could hear their comms - thats like the allies letting the germans know they broke Enigma after El-Alamein.
> One could argue the Indians would have found this out or knew this already, but when you write of it on a level that provides proof for requesting additional funds from civil oversight then you shoot yourselin the foot.
> 
> 65, PAF snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
> 71, PAF snatched defeat from the jaws of victory


But that was also said by General Musharraf In his era.


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## SQ8

Aesterix said:


> But that was also said by General Musharraf In his era.


Musharraf was a poor strategist who led troops to their death in an effort for personal glory. Then members of his cabal squandered away millions in earthquake funds cannibalized from places such as additional F-16Cs and other procurements. I don’t consider the opinion of a man I saw dancing and clapping while Balochistan had massive flooding and men were getting slaughtered in Bajaur to be worthwhile.

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## Flight of falcon

Raider 21 said:


> View attachment 782559
> 
> Here is one when I visiting home a few months ago. The sketch on the left was sent to Noman Ali Khan.



What is this hanging between two pictures ?


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## Aesterix

SQ8 said:


> Musharraf was a poor strategist who led troops to their death in an effort for personal glory. Then members of his cabal squandered away millions in earthquake funds cannibalized from places such as additional F-16Cs and other procurements. I don’t consider the opinion of a man I saw dancing and clapping while Balochistan had massive flooding and men were getting slaughtered in Bajaur to be worthwhile.


It's a matter of personal opinion, likes and dislikes.
But you may also remember that the earthquake was one of the largest in the world, in terms of population effected and destruction. 
Yet he managed it quite well.
He did propose a good solution of building a new Balakot and abandoning the destroyed one for good. Because building new was quicker and cheaper .
But people refused to accept. 
After that the funds sat unused and fell prey to the vultures. 

Likewise you may remember that Akber Bugti relatives used to visit Sui gas installations, regularly and drove away with government vehicles as باپ کا مال ۔
That was on top of the rent they were getting for the use of their lands for gas exploration and the 17% royalty Balochistan gets from bills collected nationwide.

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## Raider 21

Flight of falcon said:


> What is this hanging between two pictures ?


Wreckage of a PAF F-16 Serial 85720 that was last flown by the artist. And on the right, the artist drew out a Viper for UAEAF when he was asked to possibly fly it back in 1999.

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## SQ8

Aesterix said:


> It's a matter of personal opinion, likes and dislikes.
> But you may also remember that the earthquake was one of the largest in the world, in terms of population effected and destruction.
> Yet he managed it quite well.
> He did propose a good solution of building a new Balakot and abandoning the destroyed one for good. Because building new was quicker and cheaper .
> But people refused to accept.
> After that the funds sat unused and fell prey to the vultures.
> 
> Likewise you may remember that Akber Bugti relatives used to visit Sui gas installations, regularly and drove away with government vehicles as باپ کا مال ۔
> That was on top of the rent they were getting for the use of their lands for gas exploration and the 17% royalty Balochistan gets from bills collected nationwide.


Lets agree to disagree on his management - he is the product of systemic entitlement starting from Ayub Khan. If his management was any good he would need to be panicking to save his chair through the NRO. The shining economic time was also a facade of consumerism created through technocrats.

Bugti was created from the non-existent political system in Balochistan and a product of the failed inception of Pakistan in not removing the feudal system early on.

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## m52k85

Raider 21 said:


> Wreckage of a PAF F-16 Serial 85720 that was last flown by the artist. And on the right, the artist drew out a Viper for UAEAF when he was asked to possibly fly it back in 1999.




*29 Apr 1987*​*[w/o]*​*85720*​*81-0918*​*



PAF 14 sqn*​F-16A Block 15S​​Details​​
Shot down by Wing Commander Amjad Javed - mistakenly shooting down his wingman. Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan ejected safely.

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## Raider 21

m52k85 said:


> *29 Apr 1987*​*[w/o]*​*85720*​*81-0918*​*
> 
> 
> 
> PAF 14 sqn*​F-16A Block 15S​​Details​​​
> Shot down by Wing Commander Amjad Javed - mistakenly shooting down his wingman. Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan ejected safely.


Yes the same one

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## Thorough Pro

By nature Pakistanis are stupid, we like to boast for momentary pleasure ignoring the long-term consequences.
The knowledge about enemy weaknesses must be a closely guarded secret.





SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately, we gave the biggest weakness away by talking about how we could hear their comms - thats like the allies letting the germans know they broke Enigma after El-Alamein.
> One could argue the Indians would have found this out or knew this already, but when you write of it on a level that provides proof for requesting additional funds from civil oversight then you shoot yourselin the foot.
> 
> 65, PAF snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
> 71, PAF snatched defeat from the jaws of victory

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## Raider 21

Thorough Pro said:


> By nature Pakistanis are stupid, we like to boast for momentary pleasure ignoring the long-term consequences.
> The knowledge about enemy weaknesses must be a closely guarded secret.


That generally alone should outline why the country as a whole may have little progress.

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## PanzerKiel

A simulated action of what actually happened....

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## kursed

PanzerKiel said:


> A simulated action of what actually happened....
> View attachment 787608


I am f'n dead. LMFAO!

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## The Eagle

Hence, "A duo can Do the Job".

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## Gripen9

PanzerKiel said:


> A simulated action of what actually happened....
> View attachment 787608


Zor ka Jhatka dheeray se laga

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## Thorough Pro

Check kar rah hai kay 56 inch ki ho gai hai ya kasar baqi hai



PanzerKiel said:


> A simulated action of what actually happened....
> View attachment 787608

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## Ahmet Pasha

PanzerKiel said:


> A simulated action of what actually happened....
> View attachment 787608


Strategically placed meme sir. Very well done.

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## arjunk

PanzerKiel said:


> A simulated action of what actually happened....
> View attachment 787608



Wouldn't that be the Su-30mki, since it was going for the strike package and got intercepted? IIRC, the MiG-21s took off much later and Abhinandan was shot down since he was completely jammed, did not get the order to turn around from the LoC like the rest of his buddies, (and may have turned on his radar to search for targets), causing him to be shot down.

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## Talon

arjunk said:


> Wouldn't that be the Su-30mki, since it was going for the strike package and got intercepted? IIRC, the MiG-21s took off much later and Abhinandan was shot down since he was completely jammed, did not get the order to turn around from the LoC like the rest of his buddies, (and may have turned on his radar to search for targets), causing him to be shot down.



enjoy the meme yr

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## baqai

When you feel down, start going through this thread from page-1, see the claims by few and see how tables turn lol

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## Trailer23

Hodor said:


> enjoy the meme yr


You said it - I didn't.

Though I don't watch the sport, but couldn't resist makin' these two.

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## Bossman

Thorough Pro said:


> By nature Pakistanis are stupid, we like to boast for momentary pleasure ignoring the long-term consequences.
> The knowledge about enemy weaknesses must be a closely guarded secret.



I think you are stupid, because you don’t know $hit about how Pakistan operates.

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## PurpleButcher

baqai said:


> When you feel down, start going through this thread from page-1, see the claims by few and see how tables turn lol


Especially pages 120 onwards  Pure bliss

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## Thorough Pro

LOL, ok if that's your opinion. have a good day.



Bossman said:


> I think you are stupid, because you don’t know $hit about how Pakistan operates.


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## Bossman

Thorough Pro said:


> LOL, ok if that's your opinion. have a good day.



when you make sweeping statements to make yourself feel superior expect responses like mine.

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## Raja Porus

Can anyone verify.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454108190107324417

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## jaybird

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Can anyone verify.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454108190107324417



It has nothing to do with Pakistan F-16, just Indian keyboard warrior chest thumping of some exercise with other country. In real war Indian pilots usually busy dodging missiles and running away.

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## PanzerKiel

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Can anyone verify.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454108190107324417


Image date is from 2005.
Image is from Cope India Ex. *Cope India Exercise* are a series of international Air Force exercises between the Indian Air Force and the United States Air Force conducted on and over Indian soil. In this particular sortie, USAF was flying with a handicap....not using BVR / radar capabilities.....that is why SU-30 could have managed to get into the turning radius of F-16.
IAF can have all the wet dreams of shooting down F-16s....but bringing USAF F-16s in sights during exercises.....maza lenay do wet dreams ka.

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## Raja Porus

PanzerKiel said:


> Cope India Exercise


The name tells it "cope".

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## arjunk

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Can anyone verify.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454108190107324417



In real life, flankers aren't even going to to get that close to an F-16. Both USAF and PAF's SOP is to shoot down a flanker before it gets close enough to start its super manoeuvrable mujra, which no plane in the world can match. Dogfighting is a largely obsolete concept and that is why the leading airforces of the world focus on first see, shoot capability. The PAF F-16 is far superior to the IAF Su-30mki in this regard.

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## iLION12345_1

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Can anyone verify.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454108190107324417











Follown-on for Panzerkiels comment, watch these, listen to what he has to say about COPE india and then IAF in Blue flag. Whenever you show this to an Indian they call it fake…

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## Myth_buster_1

arjunk said:


> In real life, flankers aren't even going to to get that close to an F-16. Both USAF and PAF's SOP is to shoot down a flanker before it gets close enough to start its super manoeuvrable mujra, which no plane in the world can match. Dogfighting is a largely obsolete concept and that is why the leading airforces of the world focus on first see, shoot capability. The PAF F-16 is far superior to the IAF Su-30mki in this regard.


Super maneuver mujra 🤣

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## Thorough Pro

LOL an unarmed friendly in an exercise



Desert Fox 1 said:


> Can anyone verify.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454108190107324417


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## kursed

I am frankly tired of these claims from the Indian side about locking aircraft. Every time an aircraft gets a lock on another, please know that this is equivalent to a soldier picking his gun and getting the target in sight. This does not mean jack!


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## Pakistan Space Agency

Not sure if this short film on the failed Balakot strike has been posted before, but did Pakistan engage any of the intruding Indian aircraft with SAMs on the 26th February?


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## SQ8

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Not sure if this short film on the failed Balakot strike has been posted before, but did Pakistan engage any of the intruding Indian aircraft with SAMs on the 26th February?


Are you taking Indian fiction seriously?


iLION12345_1 said:


> Follown-on for Panzerkiels comment, watch these, listen to what he has to say about COPE india and then IAF in Blue flag. Whenever you show this to an Indian they call it fake…


A MKI is very difficult to beat in WVR especially when it can launch an Archer against you even if you are beating it in the rate fight with neither the viper nor thunder capable of a high off boresight shot in that extreme.

However, that all depends upon letting in the flanker close. In real life BVR both the viper and thunder will be turning flankers into fireballs while they do their latkas and jhatkas in the sky. The BVR suite on both jets is only matched(not outranged) by Rafale for now.

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## Trango Towers

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Can anyone verify.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454108190107324417


That's not even an f16 ....whats wrong with Indians?


Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Not sure if this short film on the failed Balakot strike has been posted before, but did Pakistan engage any of the intruding Indian aircraft with SAMs on the 26th February?


As far as I know No Sam's were launched and this is another Indian BS

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## Pakistan Space Agency

SQ8 said:


> Are you taking Indian fiction seriously?


No. I asked because I've not heard Indians make that claim before about Pakistani SAMs vs Indian aircraft.


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## SQ8

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> No. I asked because I've not heard Indians make that claim before about Pakistani SAMs vs Indian aircraft.


They were making claims of Abhinandan dogfighting three F-16s on his own. I would rather trust a farmer from cheechawatni drunk on moonshine claiming he saw Maryum Nawaz make wine out of water than an Indian youtuber

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## ghazi52

The wreckage of Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21bisUPG Bison stored in Pakistan.

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## graphican

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Not sure if this short film on the failed Balakot strike has been posted before, but did Pakistan engage any of the intruding Indian aircraft with SAMs on the 26th February?



F-16s were within 2 kilometres behind and yet they didn't engage 6 Mirages running away from them, yet cleared the way for sams? If scientists do research, they will discover species between monkeys and humans... the Indians. The missing link is found.

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## arjunk

graphican said:


> F-16s were within 2 kilometres behind and yet they didn't engage 6 Mirages running away from them, yet cleared the way for sams? If scientists do research, they will discover species between monkeys and humans... the Indians. The missing link is found.



It's Monkeys who are between Indians and Humans.

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## Titanium100

arjunk said:


> It's Monkeys who are between Indians and Humans.



A badger is the right answer


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## Signalian

ghazi52 said:


> The wreckage of Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21bisUPG Bison stored in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 789241


How many and which assets can PAF dedicate towards IOK in case of war. IAF tried to stretch and thin out PAF CAPs in north and south in this incident. PA's AD radars and PAF's ground radars played dismal role.

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## Titanium100

ghazi52 said:


> The wreckage of Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21bisUPG Bison stored in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 789241



I thought it was one of the new ones


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## Battlion25

SQ8 said:


> I would rather trust a farmer from cheechawatni drunk on moonshine claiming he saw Maryum Nawaz make wine out of water than an Indian youtuber



Lmao. This one could have become a timeless joke if it was said infront of the right audience ala Ja-rule-Chappelle one ''Can somebody get hold of Ja''


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## Myth_buster_1

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Not sure if this short film on the failed Balakot strike has been posted before, but did Pakistan engage any of the intruding Indian aircraft with SAMs on the 26th February?


Just indian wild imagination with so many technical fault.
Hq9 is radar guided and this iaf mk2 is dispensing flares to avoid being hit.


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## Reichmarshal

the mig 21 of Wg Cdr Abhinandan was part of a package of at least 2 ac, which was following a high/low strategy. where the su 30 formed the high part n the mig 21 formed the low part of this flight.

in theory, this is an excellent tactic, which makes even legacy ac like the mig 21 very potent for their assigned role.
the prob that the wg cdr faced that day was that the su 30 flying high was either the one-shot down or it bugged out leaving the wg cdr alone to fend for himself, with zero possibility of getting out unscathed.

him walking out of it all is the best thing that he could hope for.

ps: I want to interview the wg cdr n ask him how it felt when the aim 120 slammed into his ac, as it an experience that very few to get experience in the first place n than live to tell the tail.

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## K_Bin_W

ghazi52 said:


> The wreckage of Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21bisUPG Bison stored in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 789241


Who is paying for storage/rent?

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Signalian said:


> ... PA's AD radars and PAF's ground radars played dismal role.


Corrret me if im wrong but Pakistani radars did pick it up, hence, the Pakistani fighters were able to chase the intruders away. 

I can't member whether the enemy aircraft crossed LOC or not or misfired just before reaching the LOC.


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## Signalian

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Corrret me if im wrong but Pakistani radars did pick it up, hence, the Pakistani fighters were able to chase the intruders away.
> 
> I can't member whether the enemy aircraft crossed LOC or not or misfired just before reaching the LOC.


There are different accounts. 
IAF mirages did fire and the bombs landed in AJK. The escalation was on cards already and a strike was imminent yet it was allowed to occur. PAF eventually chased them away but this could have been avoided once it was known that IAF was scrambling strike sorties. Even if IAF fired from with-in IOK, the threat of PAF’s BVR equipped aircrafts could have deterred them. The Radars could have picked them up after they had Taken off, they aligned themselves in a formation to attack and were vectoring towards LOC. 
So at what instance did radar pick them up ?
And how delayed were PAF aircrafts in closing in on them on LOC ? 

To prevent this in future, what necessary actions should be taken ?

AWACS and EW aircrafts were used during PAF’s raid on IOK, should they have been put in place a day earlier too when IAF attack was expected ?

and the concern is IAF stretching PAF from skardu to masroor, how to cater for that?

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## Titanium100

K_Bin_W said:


> Who is paying for storage/rent?



The gov't


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## Ali_Baba

Signalian said:


> and the concern is IAF stretching PAF from skardu to masroor, how to cater for that?



China is how Pakistan will cater for it - historically India could fully invest its efforts on Pakistan but now - India has to worry about China and account for it..


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## SQ8

Signalian said:


> There are different accounts.
> IAF mirages did fire and the bombs landed in AJK. The escalation was on cards already and a strike was imminent yet it was allowed to occur. PAF eventually chased them away but this could have been avoided once it was known that IAF was scrambling strike sorties. Even if IAF fired from with-in IOK, the threat of PAF’s BVR equipped aircrafts could have deterred them. The Radars could have picked them up after they had Taken off, they aligned themselves in a formation to attack and were vectoring towards LOC.
> So at what instance did radar pick them up ?
> And how delayed were PAF aircrafts in closing in on them on LOC ?
> 
> To prevent this in future, what necessary actions should be taken ?
> 
> AWACS and EW aircrafts were used during PAF’s raid on IOK, should they have been put in place a day earlier too when IAF attack was expected ?
> 
> and the concern is IAF stretching PAF from skardu to masroor, how to cater for that?


It was a mix of RoEs and the IAF using diversionary tactics that predicated firing on them.
Primarily, the ground radars had intermittent tracks as the M2k strike force headed west and then north to refuel before turning southwest-ish.

While the intelligence existed, you cannot in the modus operandi in place and the diplomatic environment for Pakistan fire first on an Indian aircraft that hasn’t launched a weapon at a Pakistani target. Now, this is a silly premise in the days of standoff munitions but the alternative is to start firing at Indian aircraft inside Indian territory and trigger all out war.
It’s similar to the predicament faced by the JFK administration wrt USSR and Cuba in that you need “communication” when you scramble assets which is done through locking targets.

However, to the credit of Indians once they refueled they used some form of terrain masking(most dangerous and difficult at night) so that the radar systems in the norther sector(and GB radars are pretty limited within mountains) did not detect them until they were already into IP and approaching launch points. They did continue for a few miles or so but by that time PAF interceptor radars were tracking them and they turned away. Now throughout this time there is intelligence for an attack but no one knows where so all military installations are alerted and dont report anything that would warrant a go ahead for PAF to cross the LOC and bring down these aircraft (in practice it would be very difficult to bring the M2ks down in a tail chase as they were in full burner and had a fulcrum (or flanker) flight covering their escape.

So, to the Indian’s benefit they chose a rather obscure and frankly irrelevant target (probably because they have some guy who may be ready to confess he was “trained” there for media show) that it took a while to figure out what they actually had done.

Unfortunately, this is where things get murky whether PAF had AEW airborne or not and whether more CAPs would be useful.
For peacetime there generally are two flights available at X minutes responses to cover the north south axis and additional ones at Y minutes to follow. The IAF executed a textbook ruse tactic to try and spread the PAF(and based on admissions in Muj e Aflaq the QRA was fairly average response compared to say the RAF QRA) but frankly had bad luck and training with their systems integration and procedures.

So from a planning perspective 26th February was decently executed and demonstrated the IAF’s ability to overwhelm the PAF’s C4I through numbers and use off-axis attack patterns. The fact that it was a strategically idiotic move motivated by local political goals notwithstanding. However, 27th February was the PAF demonstrating a good plan being executed well. Frankly no plans survive contact with the enemy but well executed ones have the best chance of success - the PAF executed its better.

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## Windjammer

Keep in mind that India was terming PAF actions as an act of war.
It later transpired that this wasn't related to raiding Indian ground targets or shooting down of the MiG-21 as the ground targets never were hit directly and the MiG was shot down inside Pak airspace.
Targeting the SU-30 deep inside Indian airspace really rattled the Indians calling it an act of war thus threatening with missile strikes.

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## PDF

SQ8 said:


> It was a mix of RoEs and the IAF using diversionary tactics that predicated firing on them.


Is there any study on find ways to minimize exploitation of RoE and authorization gap; by the enemy during peace time or periods of skirmishes or high alert? And what if political directions undermine established protocols agianst aggressors? 'Grey Zone' tactics and blurry lines will create trouble from the pov of air warfare especially in this age of technologically advanced warplanes and munitions.

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## Trango Towers

Windjammer said:


> Keep in mind that India was terming PAF actions as an act of war.
> It later transpired that this wasn't related to raiding Indian ground targets or shooting down of the MiG-21 as the ground targets never were hit directly and the MiG was shot down inside Pak airspace.
> Targeting the SU-30 deep inside Indian airspace really rattled the Indians calling it an act of war thus threatening with missile strikes.


But when Pakistan reciprocated the actions Indians soon backed down. Empty vessels make a lot of noise


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## SQ8

PDF said:


> Is there any study on find ways to minimize exploitation of RoE and authorization gap; by the enemy during peace time or periods of skirmishes or high alert? And what if political directions undermine established protocols agianst aggressors? 'Grey Zone' tactics and blurry lines will create trouble from the pov of air warfare especially in this age of technologically advanced warplanes and munitions.


All forces run probing exercises to see defenses. The Indian subs are doing just that so one should look into what they are trying to achieve.

The best weapon at this point is SIGINT and HUMINT. We basically let them know we know that they know we could hear their transmission so they ran to their government to plug that gap with proof. Now that advantage is gone(sooner).
What is left is either having a constant view of Halwara & Ambala along with Bhuj or keeping more aircraft on alert 10 which adds recurring costs either way.

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## Trango Towers

SQ8 said:


> All forces run probing exercises to see defenses. The Indian subs are doing just that so one should look into what they are trying to achieve.
> 
> The best weapon at this point is SIGINT and HUMINT. We basically let them know we know that they know we could hear their transmission so they ran to their government to plug that gap with proof. Now that advantage is gone(sooner).
> What is left is either having a constant view of Halwara & Ambala along with Bhuj or keeping more aircraft on alert 10 which adds recurring costs either way.


We should have let them enter our waters and hit them


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## SQ8

Trango Towers said:


> We should have let them enter our waters and hit them


What *we *want is different to what is the best course of action taking all aspects - diplomatic, financial and internal stability in mind.

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## Bratva

Signalian said:


> There are different accounts.
> IAF mirages did fire and the bombs landed in AJK. The escalation was on cards already and a strike was imminent yet it was allowed to occur. PAF eventually chased them away but this could have been avoided once it was known that IAF was scrambling strike sorties. Even if IAF fired from with-in IOK, the threat of PAF’s BVR equipped aircrafts could have deterred them. The Radars could have picked them up after they had Taken off, they aligned themselves in a formation to attack and were vectoring towards LOC.
> So at what instance did radar pick them up ?
> And how delayed were PAF aircrafts in closing in on them on LOC ?
> 
> To prevent this in future, what necessary actions should be taken ?
> 
> AWACS and EW aircrafts were used during PAF’s raid on IOK, should they have been put in place a day earlier too when IAF attack was expected ?
> 
> and the concern is IAF stretching PAF from skardu to masroor, how to cater for that?



Indians admitted that much in their media. At the night of Balakot strike, India detected PAF Erieye AEWC and it complicated their plans. Hence they did 2 things. 1. Create diversionary packages. 1 to Bahawalpur and 1 near the Sindh region to divert PAF resources as much as possible. These 2 strike packages were as big as Balakot shrike package. 2nd thing they did, Balakot strike package took a long way. From Punjab then to Srignar then the mountain ranges to cover their approach till they transgressed 10 KM in Pakistani airspace. Asif Ghafoor admitted that much 

It was not that there was no AEWCs in the air or CAPS were not being conducted. IAF masterfully diverted the PAF attention by spreading and dedicating their resources all over Pakistani region and blinding/overburdening the AEWC in the air.. They exploited the shortcomings/gaps masterfully and they guesstimated correctly by the time NEW CAP will be in air and in position to intercept, the balakot package will be long gone.

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## Ghessan

Bratva said:


> Indians admitted that much in their media. At the night of Balakot strike, India detected PAF Erieye AEWC and it complicated their plans. Hence they did 2 things. 1. Create diversionary packages. 1 to Bahawalpur and 1 near the Sindh region to divert PAF resources as much as possible. These 2 strike packages were as big as Balakot shrike package. 2nd thing they did, Balakot strike package took a long way. From Punjab then to Srignar then the mountain ranges to cover their approach till they transgressed 10 KM in Pakistani airspace. Asif Ghafoor admitted that much
> 
> It was not that there was no AEWCs in the air or CAPS were not being conducted. IAF masterfully diverted the PAF attention by spreading and dedicating their resources all over Pakistani region and blinding/overburdening the AEWC in the air.. They exploited the shortcomings/gaps masterfully and they guesstimated correctly by the time NEW CAP will be in air and in position to intercept, the balakot package will be long gone.



ah, how many of us accept the facts what is beyond publicity. next day was another story to tell.

and then the subs, @SQ8 narrated very well above.


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## Signalian

Bratva said:


> Indians admitted that much in their media. At the night of Balakot strike, India detected PAF Erieye AEWC and it complicated their plans. Hence they did 2 things. 1. Create diversionary packages. 1 to Bahawalpur and 1 near the Sindh region to divert PAF resources as much as possible. These 2 strike packages were as big as Balakot shrike package. 2nd thing they did, Balakot strike package took a long way. From Punjab then to Srignar then the mountain ranges to cover their approach till they transgressed 10 KM in Pakistani airspace. Asif Ghafoor admitted that much
> 
> It was not that there was no AEWCs in the air or CAPS were not being conducted. IAF masterfully diverted the PAF attention by spreading and dedicating their resources all over Pakistani region and blinding/overburdening the AEWC in the air.. They exploited the shortcomings/gaps masterfully and they guesstimated correctly by the time NEW CAP will be in air and in position to intercept, the balakot package will be long gone.


It still leaves a lot to be desired including Army's AD deployment and PAF's ground assets as well as SAMs. Command knew that M2K and possible SU30 would be sent in which means a Manpads would be potentially ineffective. Pakistan's AD should be set up in such a way that IAF has to conduct a SEAD/DEAD Ops before entering Pakistan's airspace. Induction of HQ-9 is a good step but Kashmir terrain could seem IAF's future prospect for entering Pakistan's airspace again. AFAIK Erieye is deployed in north while ZDK-03 is deployed in south.

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## The Raven

Bratva said:


> Indians admitted that much in their media. At the night of Balakot strike, India detected PAF Erieye AEWC and it complicated their plans. Hence they did 2 things. 1. Create diversionary packages. 1 to Bahawalpur and 1 near the Sindh region to divert PAF resources as much as possible. These 2 strike packages were as big as Balakot shrike package. 2nd thing they did, Balakot strike package took a long way. From Punjab then to Srignar then the mountain ranges to cover their approach till they transgressed 10 KM in Pakistani airspace. Asif Ghafoor admitted that much
> 
> It was not that there was no AEWCs in the air or CAPS were not being conducted. IAF masterfully diverted the PAF attention by spreading and dedicating their resources all over Pakistani region and blinding/overburdening the AEWC in the air.. They exploited the shortcomings/gaps masterfully and they guesstimated correctly by the time NEW CAP will be in air and in position to intercept, the balakot package will be long gone.



This will always be the strength of the IAF, overwhelming PAF assets and IADS with numbers and diversionary packages. However, it's also their Achilles heal, as the subsequent PAF strike demonstrated, given their larger airspace to cover, their numbers can be diluted to a lower density and they have problems coalescing their own defences in the face of a coordinated, focused strike package backed up by dense EW assets. As long as the PAF maintain an adequate ratio relative to the IAF, the smaller airspace of Pakistan means a more rapid increase in asset density for any given airspace, given the shorter distances, and backed up by aerial refuelling for sustained operations.

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## Raider 21

https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1


I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.

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## SQ8

Raider 21 said:


> https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1
> 
> 
> I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.


It’s only for their own self delusional audience. But the idea is that a lie repeated to a billion people who repeat it constantly eventually becomes the truth.

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## Windjammer

Raider 21 said:


> https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1
> 
> 
> I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.


As Christiane Fair showed Indians the mirror that when someone tries to add fancy wordings and complicated graphics to the narrative, it means they are hiding something.
While PAF from day one revealed the call signs of IAF fighters that it shot down, the Indians OTOH, have someone called Shahz Uddin to their credit.

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## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> As Christiane Fair showed Indians the mirror that when someone tries to add fancy wordings and complicated graphics to the narrative, it means they are hiding something.
> While PAF from day one revealed the call signs of IAF fighters that it shot down, the Indians OTOH, have someone called Shahz Uddin to their credit.
> 
> View attachment 793347


He dared challenge the PAF package and was promptly shot down. 

They should correct that to "they"

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## Talon

Raider 21 said:


> https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1
> 
> 
> I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.


I have never been entertained this much in my life.. thank you for sharing this piece of KOMEDI

TBH this post deserves a separate thread.. I am sure a lot of folks would be interested in deconstructing and analyzing this story

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## kursed

Raider 21 said:


> https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1
> 
> 
> I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.





Raider 21 said:


> https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1
> 
> 
> I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.


Truly hope and pray that we have more of such folks on the other side, who are actually taken seriously. The kind of Koolaid they are drip-feeding to their masses only helps us in the long run and truly wish for this to continue.

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## JamD

kursed said:


> Truly hope and pray that we have more of such folks on the other side, who are actually taken seriously. The kind of Koolaid they are drip-feeding to their masses only helps us in the long run and truly wish for this to continue.


Ameen

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## untitled

Shahzaz has been immortalized by having been given a permanent place in Indian mythology. Even after his demise he will continue to live rent-free in the minds of the bhakhts

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## Ghessan

Raider 21 said:


> https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1
> 
> 
> I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.



i want to know if you could share the next page:
the last two lines say: The superior Fighter SU30 MKI aggressively pursued and fired towards the F-16 using its ... and what happened as it was in the killing range of defenders weapons?

also as it says they forced the F-16 to overshoot but by the story teller it seems it was the same F-16 that took ALPHA-I where as F-16 was sandwiched between the two.

then why did not AVENGER-I shoot and F-16 took ALPHA-I?

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## Signalian

Posting an IAI video since some of these methods were used on 27th Feb 2019. It shows Comm Jam, ESM/ECM and ELINT/ECM primarily from ground systems but some bits from aerial systems are also there. A propeller powered aircraft is used for jamming in simulation. Interesting part is that Israelis were present there with Indians. They were coordinating command and control while strategizing against Pakistan. The basics of EW are same everywhere. Proper deployment of EW assets coupled with tactics win the day.

This video shows certain domains of EW and their importance in todays warfare.

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## Trailer23

At the DxB Air Show, after visiting the Raytheon Pavilion, I thought i'd take an interest in the Aim-120 & how it works.

Judging by the t-shirt I was wearing, a lil' birdie told me that anytime anyone from across the fence ever questions you about how an exploded piece of AMRAAM ended up in their backyard, all they need to do is contact Raytheon India (office) & make an inquiry.

Someone outta tell the so-called Defence Experts of India to do just that.

1. India Today - *Shiv Aroor*
2. India Today - *Gaurav C Sawant*
3. NDTV - *Vishnu Som*
4. YouTuber - *Nitin A. Gokhale*
5. ??????? - *Abhijit Iyer Mitra*

Since none of those hacks will ever wanna call Raytheon in India, we can always advice our fellow Indian Members to do so.

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## ghazi52

''So many awards on chest as you can see ''
Followers your support needed with this hashtag
#AbhiNoneDoneAward

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## ghazi52

Documents & personal items recovered from (then) Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman by Pakistan Army after his Mig-21 Bison was shot down by Pakistan Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcon.

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## ghazi52

Do you see the grin in his eyes and the shame as well? Abhinandan, mind you, has never claimed it on himself nor has appeared in any tv/media interview narrating his side of the kill because he very well knows what happened in reality and he was a pow who was shot down professionally. Then again, we must know that he was a thoroughly professional soldier, caught up in the bad world of politics, who was not only upright and in his stance but also showed remarkable bravery in accordance to the Geneva Convention. I know a person serving for the PAF who admires his professionalism.
I am 100% sure of the fact that this is being forced on him and he counts this medal of no value in his heart.






Do you see the grin in his eyes and the shame as well? Abhinandan, mind you, has never claimed it on himself nor has appeared in any tv/media interview narrating his side of the kill because he very well knows what happened in reality and he was a pow who was shot down professionally. Then again, we must know that he was a thoroughly professional soldier, caught up in the bad world of politics, who was not only upright and in his stance but also showed remarkable bravery in accordance to the Geneva Convention. I know a person serving for the PAF who admires his professionalism.
I am 100% sure of the fact that this is being forced on him and he counts this medal of no value in his heart.

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## ghazi52

PAF Operation Swift Retort
Aviation art by Gp Capt (R) Hussaini

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## Reichmarshal

the funniest bit of the whole incident was when abhinandan land, the first person on the scene was this whitty old man, abhinadan asked him if he had landed in India or Pakistan, to this the old man replied india.
on hearing this abhinandan let out a huge cry of jayhind.
to this the baba jee replied in perfect pahari "thair tui maa dasah jayhind", n the rest is history, abhi received a beating of a life time at the hands of ordinary folks.

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## Reichmarshal



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## Irfan Baloch

was Hasan Sadiqui awarded anything?
noonies are pegging Indian propogenda saying no su30 was down.
noon Twitter is repeatedly sharing Abhinandon award video


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## untitled

Irfan Baloch said:


> was Hasan Sadiqui awarded anything?


Tamagha e Jurrat


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## Trailer23

Irfan Baloch said:


> noon Twitter is repeatedly sharing Abhinandon award video


Noon-twitter is as relevant as a fart in a Spacecraft.

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## Dreamer.

@Zarvan

Scroll to the end.









ایوارڈ حاصل کرنے کے بعد ابھینندن کا ٹوئٹر پر مذاق بن گیا


بھارتی ونگ کمانڈر ابھینندن ورتھمان کا بھارتی حکومت کی جانب سے ’ویر چکرا‘ ایوارڈ حاصل کرنے کے بعد سوشل میڈیا پر مذاق بن گیا۔




jang.com.pk

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## ghazi52

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=242425381316460

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## maverick1977

SQ8 said:


> Are you taking Indian fiction seriously?
> 
> A MKI is very difficult to beat in WVR especially when it can launch an Archer against you even if you are beating it in the rate fight with neither the viper nor thunder capable of a high off boresight shot in that extreme.
> 
> However, that all depends upon letting in the flanker close. In real life BVR both the viper and thunder will be turning flankers into fireballs while they do their latkas and jhatkas in the sky. The BVR suite on both jets is only matched(not outranged) by Rafale for now.



Didnt Pakistan get High Bore WVR missile PL10E with HMD recently?


----------



## SQ8

maverick1977 said:


> Didnt Pakistan get High Bore WVR missile PL10E with HMD recently?


No Pakistani platform is equipped with a compatible HMD to use it and no PL-10E has been delivered.


----------



## Ghessan

ghazi52 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=242425381316460



he speaks really good. his reply to the last question was comprehensive and thoughtful.


----------



## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463945051252445193

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## Myth_buster_1

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463945051252445193



Hopefully they provide images of when both R73s were recovered along with wreckage. Indians still believe pakistan purchased an r73 from china or ebay and later displayed it.


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## Windjammer

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Hopefully they provide images of when both R73s were recovered along with wreckage. Indians still believe pakistan purchased an r73 from china or ebay and later displayed it.


Albeit, when the Swift Retort took place, it was ACM Mujaid Anwar Khan in command of the PAF. I met him by coincidence in Qatar in July 2019.....Five months after the PAF operation. His staff member took my details including my e-mail . I was given the impression that all the details would be released in due course.....including some imagery. Even Kaiser Tufail, after being given initial briefings on Swift Retort was denied any further information.....PAF obviously doesn't want to give away too much.

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## TsAr

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463945051252445193


I don't think anything of significance would come out of this interview. Sohail Aman was retired at time of swift retort. If PAF wanted to release something they could have done through AM Waqas Sulehri or ISPR


Windjammer said:


> Albeit, when the Swift Retort took place, it was ACM Mujaid Anwar Khan in command of the PAF. I met him by coincidence in Qatar in July 2019.....Five months after the PAF operation. *His staff member took my details including my e-mail* . I was given the impression that all the details would be released in due course.....including some imagery. Even Kaiser Tufail, after being given initial briefings on Swift Retort was denied any further information.....PAF obviously doesn't want to give away too much.


I am sure details were taken for record keeping. Obviously something changed and they decided not to divulge any further details, but you never know.

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## Myth_buster_1

Windjammer said:


> Albeit, when the Swift Retort took place, it was ACM Mujaid Anwar Khan in command of the PAF. I met him by coincidence in Qatar in July 2019.....Five months after the PAF operation. His staff member took my details including my e-mail . I was given the impression that all the details would be released in due course.....including some imagery. Even Kaiser Tufail, after being given initial briefings on Swift Retort was denied any further information.....PAF obviously doesn't want to give away too much.



I just want imagies of second r73 found along with wreckage. This will shut up iaf fanboys.


----------



## Trango Towers

Reichmarshal said:


> the funniest bit of the whole incident was when abhinandan land, the first person on the scene was this whitty old man, abhinadan asked him if he had landed in India or Pakistan, to this the old man replied india.
> on hearing this abhinandan let out a huge cry of jayhind.
> to this the baba jee replied in perfect pahari "thair tui maa dasah jayhind", n the rest is history, abhi received a beating of a life time at the hands of ordinary folks.


Yes and look at the smart old man....he is the real hero


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## PanzerKiel

what if the "about to be released info" also has proofs of Su-30 going down.....i mean they didnt award anything to ANY Su 30 pilots who participated in their op, we have got AMRAAM dodgers but nothing for AMRAAM EATERS....it really takes guts to fly into an incoming AMRAAM.....more than dodging.....

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## TsAr

PanzerKiel said:


> what if the "about to be released info" also has proofs of Su-30 going down.....i mean they didnt award anything to ANY Su 30 pilots who participated in their op, we have got AMRAAM dodgers but nothing for AMRAAM EATERS....it really takes guts to fly into an incoming AMRAAM.....more than dodging.....


They did roll out these patches.

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## Oracle

is there any western / neutral aviation expert analysis on 2nd aircraft downing ?


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## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> Albeit, when the Swift Retort took place, it was ACM Mujaid Anwar Khan in command of the PAF. I met him by coincidence in Qatar in July 2019.....Five months after the PAF operation. His staff member took my details including my e-mail . I was given the impression that all the details would be released in due course.....including some imagery. Even Kaiser Tufail, after being given initial briefings on Swift Retort was denied any further information.....PAF obviously doesn't want to give away too much.


Mujahid Anwar Khan currently is in Canada. He doesn't say anything further than what was done that day, and frankly I respect his candid humour where he mentioned he would not want to talk anything more ops related to PAF, and more about life in general. A man of great accomplishments, yet very humble. They reveal more info amongst their seniors by word of mouth, yet most have respected in staying quiet about it. KT was a loudmouth a little too early, and had to change his blog a few times.

Having spoken to a PAF Mirage driver last night, even he says it is a claim regarding an Su-30 shootdown. A claim will remain a claim until concrete evidence is provided.

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## Windjammer

Raider 21 said:


> Mujahid Anwar Khan currently is in Canada. He doesn't say anything further than what was done that day, and frankly I respect his candid humour where he mentioned he would not want to talk anything more ops related to PAF, and more about life in general. A man of great accomplishments, yet very humble. They reveal more info amongst their seniors by word of mouth, yet most have respected in staying quiet about it. KT was a loudmouth a little too early, and had to change his blog a few times.
> 
> Having spoken to a PAF Mirage driver last night, even he says it is a claim regarding an Su-30 shootdown. A claim will remain a claim until concrete evidence is provided.


Many people both in and out of PAF are oblivious to the hardcore facts of that day as what really happened that made India go Berserk, calling it an act of war and threatening missile strikes in desperation. 
On a lighter note, I need to remind Mujaid Anwar Sahib about a discount I was supposed to get for hiring Capri Marque services situated near Nur Khan base.


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## SQ8

PanzerKiel said:


> what if the "about to be released info" also has proofs of Su-30 going down.....i mean they didnt award anything to ANY Su 30 pilots who participated in their op, we have got AMRAAM dodgers but nothing for AMRAAM EATERS....it really takes guts to fly into an incoming AMRAAM.....more than dodging.....


I don’t think it would matter as such. If you were LockMart, Raytheon or the congressman or from Dassault sponsoring a $1 billion sale then you are likely to nod for your customer. Same reason their state could gas 1 million Kashmiris in the last ten years and still get celebrated at the Met Gala while you could have had a criminal kill a single Christian and be sanctioned for HR violations citing 1971 as historical proof.

The realization that has come soo late to all think tanks in Pakistan is that money talks and everyone else can take their principles and shove them where the ISSB physical exam takes a peek.

Sure, there are geopolitical factors as well - the United States wants no competition as the sole superpower and China is the target. All other “principles “ and relationships are tertiary.

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## TsAr

Windjammer said:


> Many people both in and out of PAF are oblivious to the hardcore facts of that day as what really happened that made India go Berserk, calling it an act of war and threatening missile strikes in desperation.
> On a lighter note, I need to remind Mujaid Anwar Sahib about a discount I was supposed to get for hiring Capri Marque services situated near Nur Khan base.


Capri Marquee on Rawal Road besides RIC


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## Windjammer

TsAr said:


> Capri Marquee on Rawal Road besides RIC


It was afternoon of first week in August, had to wear suit and Tie and then stand in the sweltering heat to welcome guests, could see regular incoming and outgoing flights of C-130s but the food was good and staff attentive.

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## TsAr

Windjammer said:


> It was afternoon of first week in August, had to wear suit and Tie and then stand in the sweltering heat to welcome guests, could see regular incoming and outgoing flights of C-130s but the food was good and staff attentive.


I happen to know one of the owners.


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## Thorough Pro

they died



PanzerKiel said:


> what if the "about to be released info" also has proofs of Su-30 going down.....i mean they didnt award anything to ANY Su 30 pilots who participated in their op, we have got AMRAAM dodgers but nothing for AMRAAM EATERS....it really takes guts to fly into an incoming AMRAAM.....more than dodging.....

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## Riz

Why no Awards for the IAF pilot who phullly dodged 5 incoming AMAARAMs and set another world record after Phamous holly wood pilot TOM cruse ??

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## Reichmarshal

SQ8 said:


> The realization that has come soo late to all think tanks in Pakistan is that money talks and everyone else can take their principles and shove them where the ISSB physical exam takes a peek

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## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> It was afternoon of first week in August, had to wear suit and Tie and then stand in the sweltering heat to welcome guests, could see regular incoming and outgoing flights of C-130s but the food was good and staff attentive.


Elder one or younger one? They should be in their 20’s now?


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## Windjammer

SQ8 said:


> Elder one or younger one? They should be in their 20’s now?


From the Admins side it must have been the elder as he was a former PAF officer but only spoke to him over the phone. The few times I visited the venue he wasn't there. But the others were very courteous. Loved the work of the lady they hired to do the fresh flower arrangements and decorate the stage. Mind you it costed us few lacs more than what the Blue Lagoon in Sadar quoted.

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## Tejas Spokesman

PanzerKiel said:


> ...i mean they didnt award anything to ANY Su 30 pilots who participated in their op,





Riz said:


> Why no Awards for the IAF pilot who phullly dodged 5 incoming AMAARAMs and set another world record after Phamous holly wood pilot TOM cruse ??


The Su-30 MKI pilots were already awarded commendation cards around 2 weeks after the incident for dodging AMRAAM and successfully keeping their aircraft unharmed.









IAF Su-30 MKI pilots who neutralized multiple AMRAAM missiles to be awarded






defence.pk

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## Riz

Tejas Spokesman said:


> The Su-30 MKI pilots were already awarded commendation cards around 2 weeks after the incident for dodging AMRAAM and successfully keeping their aircraft unharmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF Su-30 MKI pilots who neutralized multiple AMRAAM missiles to be awarded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Where are the wreckages of the five remaining AMARAAMs which famous SU-30 dodged ?? iAF showed one within few hours of skirmish why they never shown the parts of remaining five AMMRAAMS ?


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## Windjammer

Tejas Spokesman said:


> The Su-30 MKI pilots were already awarded commendation cards around 2 weeks after the incident for dodging AMRAAM and successfully keeping their aircraft unharmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF Su-30 MKI pilots who neutralized multiple AMRAAM missiles to be awarded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


And these people have such gloomy faces as they had to search and pull out this AMRAAM wreckage from the 56'' Pichwara.

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## SIPRA

Tejas Spokesman said:


> The Su-30 MKI pilots were already awarded commendation cards around 2 weeks after the incident for dodging AMRAAM and successfully keeping their aircraft unharmed.


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## arjunk

India would award osama bin laden for being a "drone dodger" if they could.

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## Riz

One of the story which this motar drinker wasi military made to convince there peee drinker janta that local kashmiri peoples killed the both F-16 pilots with beards considered them as sikh pilots and they leave abhinanadan with mustaches style which never even exist in Pakistan  These pajeets don’t know that every pilot had a name plate on his chest either they are indian or Pakistanis.. kis kis ko hutiaa bano gay ?

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## Windjammer

Tejas Spokesman said:


> The Su-30 MKI pilots were already awarded commendation cards around 2 weeks after the incident for dodging AMRAAM and successfully keeping their aircraft unharmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF Su-30 MKI pilots who neutralized multiple AMRAAM missiles to be awarded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk

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## Pak Nationalist

Signalian said:


> There are different accounts.
> IAF mirages did fire and the bombs landed in AJK. The escalation was on cards already and a strike was imminent yet it was allowed to occur. PAF eventually chased them away but this could have been avoided once it was known that IAF was scrambling strike sorties. Even if IAF fired from with-in IOK, the threat of PAF’s BVR equipped aircrafts could have deterred them. The Radars could have picked them up after they had Taken off, they aligned themselves in a formation to attack and were vectoring towards LOC.
> So at what instance did radar pick them up ?
> And how delayed were PAF aircrafts in closing in on them on LOC ?
> 
> To prevent this in future, what necessary actions should be taken ?
> 
> AWACS and EW aircrafts were used during PAF’s raid on IOK, should they have been put in place a day earlier too when IAF attack was expected ?
> 
> and the concern is IAF stretching PAF from skardu to masroor, how to cater for that?


It is said that our AD assets were not activated in AJK. We were expecting something in Punjab proper. It was an intelligence failure, if true. The more troubling prospect is the assets being active in AJK, but as the Indians claim, were jammed. A lot of ink has been spilt on the events of 27th Feb, but for our sake, I think we must look at the events of 26th Feb more closely. Why were any losses not inflicted on the opposing side that day? On 27th feb, Indians might have known that our leaders lack the will to launch a strike across the IB (they did bomb sovereign Pakistani territory, not AJK), so they concentrated their vigil in IoK. That gave them an opportunity to give chase to our strikers which resulted in the final melee. We were not able to do so either due to faulty intelligence, or our CAPs being stretched thin by foe's diversionary tactics, or our AD assets being jammed successfully.

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## SQ8

Pak Nationalist said:


> It is said that our AD assets were not activated in AJK. We were expecting something in Punjab proper. It was an intelligence failure, if true. The more troubling prospect is the assets being active in AJK, but as the Indians claim were jammed. A lot of ink has been spilt on the events of 27th Feb, but for our sake, I think we must look at the events of 26th Feb more closely. Why were any losses not inflicted on the opposing side that day? On 27th feb, Indians might have known that our leaders lack the courage to launch a strike across the IB (they did bomb sovereign Pakistani territory, not AJK), so they concentrated their vigil in IoK. That gave them an opportunity to give chase to our strikers which resulted in the final melee. We were not able to do so either due to faulty intelligence, or our CAPs being stretched thin by foe's diversionary tactics or our AD assets being jammed successfully.


Agree that 26th February demands more introspection in terms of the response from the Pakistani AD.

But, please read my post on this thread as well as why long existing RoEs and plain fog on what they had actually done prevented engagement.

Lets say the Rules Of Engagement were relaxed and Pakistani aircraft gave chase into IoK and IB - what do you suppose would have happened then?
As a person who seems to be sitting in the United States which has the greatest air force in the world you should look at US history when facing an inferior enemy but having restricted RoE.

There are factors that go into maintaining CAPs besides the ~$14000/hr for the JF-17 and $24000/hr for the F-16.

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## Pak Nationalist

Windjammer said:


> Keep in mind that India was terming PAF actions as an act of war.
> It later transpired that this wasn't related to raiding Indian ground targets or shooting down of the MiG-21 as the ground targets never were hit directly and the MiG was shot down inside Pak airspace.
> Targeting the SU-30 deep inside Indian airspace really rattled the Indians calling it an act of war thus threatening with missile strikes.


I reckon that was in relation to Pakistan bombing territory that Ind claims as its own. However, it makes little sense for them to protest in this manner when they themselves bombed sovereign Pakistani territory just a day earlier. Maybe you are right in this context, and taking shot/s at acs deep within Ind controlled airspace is what made them make a statement that otherwise makes zero sense.


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## SQ8

Windjammer said:


> From the Admins side it must have been the elder as he was a former PAF officer but only spoke to him over the phone. The few times I visited the venue he wasn't there. But the others were very courteous. Loved the work of the lady they hired to do the fresh flower arrangements and decorate the stage. Mind you it costed us few lacs more than what the Blue Lagoon in Sadar quoted.


In terms of aesthetics and even refinement urban Pakistan has advanced leaps and bounds. Some of the restaurants in Pakistan serve western cuisine that would make michelin star chefs nervous. And I say that with no exaggeration having done Ramsey’s joint and Benu(3 star) in California.

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## Windjammer

SQ8 said:


> In terms of aesthetics and even refinement urban Pakistan has advanced leaps and bounds. Some of the restaurants in Pakistan serve western cuisine that would make michelin star chefs nervous. And I say that with no exaggeration having done Ramsey’s joint and Benu(3 star) in California.


The individually foiled wrapped chunks of meat alone deserve 3 Stars.


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## JawadKKhan

Waoo this thread still active to humiliate indians forever 

Had written below for another post, but thats relevant here: 

27 Feb was the day! Clear domination of PAF! In response of few trees, PAF showed its immense capabilities next day in broad day light at highest level of indian air alert. That's literally telling indians who is the Boss! 

Our H-4s delivered complete message to india and had you killed anyone in Pakistan instead of few trees, see our H-4 missiles would have blasted through your Brigade HQs. We showed actual weapon footages of H-4s unlike indians who completely failed to give a single evidence of Balakot. When Reuters, MAXAR, Australian report, EU space imaging all of them confirmed with 100% certainty that all indian bombs fell away, The indian media came to rescue sentiments of indians by giving most comical explanation that multiple 2000 lbs bombs from 50 kms away made a delicate hole in the roof and ordinary feeble house kept standing in the face of immense shockwave, weight, momentum.. This spin has actually given us the opportunity to humiliate indians for eternity for their IQ level.

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## Windjammer

Pak Nationalist said:


> I reckon that was in relation to Pakistan bombing territory that Ind claims as its own. However, it makes little sense for them to protest in this manner when they themselves bombed sovereign Pakistani territory just a day earlier. Maybe you are right in this context, and taking shot/s at acs deep within Ind controlled airspace is what made them make a statement that otherwise makes zero sense.


I'm sure you will agree that there is a world of difference between SU-30 and MiG-21 yet Nauman was awarded SJ while Hassan the Sukhoi slayer just got SB. like India we weren't going to bomb some civilian entity so the action was taken against Indian military which was the actual aggressor.


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## khanasifm

Can someone re shared the video of Indian media reporting MKi shot down by paf before they took it off due to political and other pressure ?


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## khanasifm



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## Reichmarshal

Windjammer said:


> I'm sure you will agree that there is a world of difference between SU-30 and MiG-21 yet Nauman was awarded SJ while Hassan the Sukhoi slayer just got SB. like India we weren't going to bomb some civilian entity so the action was taken against Indian military which was the actual aggressor.


hassan saddique was awarded Tamgha-i-Jurat

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## PanzerKiel

Pak Nationalist said:


> It is said that our AD assets were not activated in AJK. We were expecting something in Punjab proper. It was an intelligence failure, if true. The more troubling prospect is the assets being active in AJK, but as the Indians claim, were jammed. A lot of ink has been spilt on the events of 27th Feb, but for our sake, I think we must look at the events of 26th Feb more closely. Why were any losses not inflicted on the opposing side that day? On 27th feb, Indians might have known that our leaders lack the will to launch a strike across the IB (they did bomb sovereign Pakistani territory, not AJK), so they concentrated their vigil in IoK. That gave them an opportunity to give chase to our strikers which resulted in the final melee. We were not able to do so either due to faulty intelligence, or our CAPs being stretched thin by foe's diversionary tactics, or our AD assets being jammed successfully.


The exact reason PAF didn't engage on 26 Feb, even though they could have, is entirely different.

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## Windjammer

Reichmarshal said:


> hassan saddique was awarded Tamgha-i-Jurat


Still below Sitara-e-Jurat. 
The whole purpose of the point I'm making.


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## Areesh

Raider 21 said:


> https://imgur.com/a/9f2CTJ1
> 
> 
> I fail to understand who and where they come up with these type of lies. If this is the narrative being fed by the Indian Air Force, then I doubt anyone takes them seriously on a professional level other than what they are trying to sell to their public.



And after all this only thing that SU30 MKI managed to achieve was this:


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## SIPRA

Windjammer said:


> Still below Sitara-e-Jurat.
> The whole purpose of the point I'm making.



I think that SU-30 was hit, but survived and possibly crash landed.


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## Windjammer

SIPRA said:


> I think that SU-30 was hit, but survived and possibly crash landed.


Nopes, not the reason either.

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## JawadKKhan

Windjammer said:


> Nopes, not the reason either.



Unfortunately there is no real photo / video confirmation of SU-30. In the eyes of the world, only confirmed kill in whole scenario was mig-21. Pilot had a lock, fired a missile but in the end there is no debris photo. World only call these kills as "claims" but not confirmed. 
Perhaps, Airforce gives priority to confirmed kills which can shown as a trophy to entire world. After all the weightage of confirmed kill as a trophy served lot more national interests.

However, I am certain that SU-30 was shot down as that can be the sole reason that other SU-30s never challenged PAF after seeing the fate of one of their prime jets. Secondly, search & rescue heli to be rushed is another indication. Lastly. no counter claim evidence made by india. like for Pakistan, PAF immediately gave most reputed neutral count of F-16s, showed 4 AAMs along with the debris. Nothing of such level of credibility which can completely reject PAF claim were made by india.

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## Primus

PanzerKiel said:


> The exact reason PAF didn't engage on 26 Feb, even though they could have, is entirely different.


Do pray tell?

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## Reichmarshal

Windjammer said:


> Still below Sitara-e-Jurat.
> The whole purpose of the point I'm making.


Difference between a visually confirmed kill n a non visually confirmed kill


PanzerKiel said:


> The exact reason PAF didn't engage on 26 Feb, even though they could have, is entirely different.


They did engage at very long distances.


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## Windjammer

JawadKKhan said:


> Unfortunately there is no real photo / video confirmation of SU-30. In the eyes of the world, only confirmed kill in whole scenario was mig-21. Pilot had a lock, fired a missile but in the end there is no debris photo. World only call these kills as "claims" but not confirmed.
> Perhaps, Airforce gives priority to confirmed kills which can shown as a trophy to entire world. After all the weightage of confirmed kill as a trophy served lot more national interests.
> 
> However, I am certain that SU-30 was shot down as that can be the sole reason that other SU-30s never challenged PAF after seeing the fate of one of their prime jets. Secondly, search & rescue heli to be rushed is another indication. Lastly. no counter claim evidence made by india. like for Pakistan, PAF immediately gave most reputed neutral count of F-16s, showed 4 AAMs along with the debris. Nothing of such level of credibility which can completely reject PAF claim were made by india.


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## baqai

Tejas Spokesman said:


> The Su-30 MKI pilots were already awarded commendation cards around 2 weeks after the incident for dodging AMRAAM and successfully keeping their aircraft unharmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF Su-30 MKI pilots who neutralized multiple AMRAAM missiles to be awarded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



lets talk *logic *for a second, i know hard for you to comprehend but please bear with me. 

Pakistan, within days if not hours had Hasan and Noman's name all over social media with kill claims, they came on multiple shows and their faces was shown around the globe.

India, within hours, claimed nothing was shot down, lost 3 (2 confirmed, 1 disputed) assets, one pilot POW and shown to the world, yet the only media coverage we EVER saw was Abhinandan's face or wreck of that AIM120, just wondering, why not bring those SU jockeys in limelight for the world to see, it's not easy to dodge multiple missiles and this feat is respected and celebrated. 

*Maj. ET Tullia (Call Sign: Stoke 3) dodged not 1, not 2 but 5 SAM's and lived to tell the story*, oh by the way he did that all by his flying skills not by counter measures because when he landed he discovered that his chaff/flare dispenser had malfunctioned and nothing had been dispensed. *He was awarded Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC)* for it (very well deserving). By the way, *Maj Tullia had a HUD tape to back the claims*, just google it or search on YouTube to see it.

So coming back to the topic, *IF* IAF managed to achieved such a remarkable achievement than why not bring those pilots in front and award them? they are MORE deserving for that Chakra what ever award rather than ration cards of yours. How about posting those HUD tape so we Pakistani's for once are shut the hell up once and for all? 









Jaw-dropping footage of a US fighter pilot dodging missiles in the Gulf War


"Stroke 4 is hit!"




www.vox.com












This Is What It's Like Dodging Six Missiles In An F-16







www.businessinsider.com





@Riz @GriffinsRule @Signalian @SQ8 @Akh1112 @Raider 21 @The Eagle @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Deino @Hodor @airomerix @fitpOsitive @Mav3rick @Meengla @TaimiKhan @TheTallGuy

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## fitpOsitive

baqai said:


> lets talk *logic *for a second, i know hard for you to comprehend but please bear with me.
> 
> Pakistan, within days if not hours had Hasan and Noman's name all over social media with kill claims, they came on multiple shows and their faces was shown around the globe.
> 
> India, within hours, claimed nothing was shot down, lost 3 (2 confirmed, 1 disputed) assets, one pilot POW and shown to the world, yet the only media coverage we EVER saw was Abhinandan's face or wreck of that AIM120, just wondering, why not bring those SU jockeys in limelight for the world to see, it's not easy to dodge multiple missiles and this feat is respected and celebrated.
> 
> *Maj. ET Tullia (Call Sign: Stoke 3) dodged not 1, not 2 but 5 SAM's and lived to tell the story*, oh by the way he did that all by his flying skills not by counter measures because when he landed he discovered that his chaff/flare dispenser had malfunctioned and nothing had been dispensed. *He was awarded Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC)* for it (very well deserving). By the way, *Maj Tullia had a HUD tape to back the claims*, just google it or search on YouTube to see it.
> 
> So coming back to the topic, *IF* IAF managed to achieved such a remarkable achievement than why not bring those pilots in front and award them? they are MORE deserving for that Chakra what ever award rather than ration cards of yours. How about posting those HUD tape so we Pakistani's for once are shut the hell up once and for all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jaw-dropping footage of a US fighter pilot dodging missiles in the Gulf War
> 
> 
> "Stroke 4 is hit!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Is What It's Like Dodging Six Missiles In An F-16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Riz @GriffinsRule @Signalian @SQ8 @Akh1112 @Raider 21 @The Eagle @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Deino @Hodor @airomerix @fitpOsitive @Mav3rick @Meengla @TaimiKhan @TheTallGuy


Thanks for tagging.
When it comes to Pakistan-India, no one can speak sense. Its all non sense, and I am afraid, it will remain so for next 5000 years.
I am sorry, I don't have more to say.

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## sparten

Windjammer said:


> Nopes, not the reason either.


The reason was that he engaged when he wasn't supposed to. He got grounded for a while. It was only after they confirmed the hit that they changed their mind.
The AOC North was ready to Court Martial him.

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## Mav3rick

fitpOsitive said:


> Thanks for tagging.
> When it comes to Pakistan-India, no one can speak sense. Its all non sense, and I am afraid, it will remain so for next 5000 years.
> I am sorry, I don't have more to say.



Politics & Patriotism are often deprived of logic or sense.

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## fitpOsitive

Mav3rick said:


> Politics & Patriotism are often deprived of logic or sense.


People are afraid of each other in South Asia. The root cause is the politics of some useless people. 
Leaches, everywhere in the systems of the countries. 
But it all boils down to the mentality, that everyone learns at home in South Asia. There we need to focus.


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## Windjammer

sparten said:


> The reason was that he engaged when he wasn't supposed to. He got grounded for a while. It was only after they confirmed the hit that they changed their mind.
> The AOC North was ready to Court Martial him.


There's a little more to this.

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## Raja Porus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466642761017290754
Pakistani CH4s were shot down before they even delivered 🤣🤣

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## Thorough Pro

Here is the undeniable proof of SU30 kill, they didn't pull it out of their arses

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## Myth_buster_1

Thorough Pro said:


> Here is the undeniable proof of SU30 kill, they didn't pull it out of their arses



The reason why they cant find the seeker of the AMRAAM cuz it got stuck in Su-30 arse.

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## Myth_buster_1

Desert Fox 1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466642761017290754
> Pakistani CH4s were shot down before they even delivered 🤣🤣



Spyder did not shoot down Mi-17. 
Watch this video from 4:33





This system literally tells you what type of target is selected e.g helicopter, drone, aircraft etc and it even tells you model of the target e.g F-16, JF-17, Mirage-III etc. How the fk was the Spyder operator not able to know that its a Mi-17 helicopter. Regardless if the Mi-17 IFF was turn on or off the sypder still would have been able to tell its unidentified Mi-17 because pakistani Mi-17 would have shown as FOE not unidentified target. Isnt Indian Air Defence SOP not to get approval from higher ups after conformation before they engage the target? Or is it a cover up?
I did provide videos and news articles of local IOK civilians (which I cant find due to obvious reasons) saying that they saw bunch of fast moving fighter jets before the chopper went down. I 100% believe those were PAF fighters that shot down Mi-17 and to deescalate the situation both Pak and Ind government decided to make Spyder the escape goat.

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## F86 Saber

Windjammer said:


> There's a little more to this.



If by "More" you mean he was asked not to shoot and he still did, then it is no secret. There was a reason he was advertised as a hero within hours of the incident otherwise he would have been punished for not following orders.


----------



## Goenitz

just sharing considering what had gone in the public minds.


----------



## Pak Nationalist

Pak Nationalist said:


> It is said that our AD assets were not activated in AJK. We were expecting something in Punjab proper. It was an intelligence failure, if true. The more troubling prospect is the assets being active in AJK, but as the Indians claim, were jammed. A lot of ink has been spilt on the events of 27th Feb, but for our sake, I think we must look at the events of 26th Feb more closely. Why were any losses not inflicted on the opposing side that day? On 27th feb, Indians might have known that our leaders lack the will to launch a strike across the IB (they did bomb sovereign Pakistani territory, not AJK), so they concentrated their vigil in IoK. That gave them an opportunity to give chase to our strikers which resulted in the final melee. We were not able to do so either due to faulty intelligence, or our CAPs being stretched thin by foe's diversionary tactics, or our AD assets being jammed successfully.


The ISI chief Asim Munir was removed months after the confrontation. He appeared to be a no-nonsense soldier.


----------



## Titanium100

F86 Saber said:


> If by "More" you mean he was asked not to shoot and he still did, then it is no secret. There was a reason he was advertised as a hero within hours of the incident otherwise he would have been punished for not following orders.



This pretty much


----------



## khanasifm

Eventually truth will come out 😉


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467214623745007616


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## R Wing

Thorough Pro said:


> Here is the undeniable proof of SU30 kill, they didn't pull it out of their arses



It shows the remnants of a missile carried by our F-16s. It is not undeniable proof of an SU30 kill.


Pak Nationalist said:


> The ISI chief Asim Munir was removed months after the confrontation. He appeared to be a no-nonsense soldier.



Such intel (OPFOR mil movements, readiness, etc.) is the remit of the MI. 

Asim Munir was switched because he wasn't able to settle properly, especially given the ill health of somebody in his immediate family.

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## TsAr

Pak Nationalist said:


> The ISI chief Asim Munir was removed months after the confrontation. He appeared to be a no-nonsense soldier.


he was transferred to Gujranwala core, not removed.


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## Pak Nationalist

TsAr said:


> he was transferred to Gujranwala core, not removed.


Way before his term was to end. He was sworn to the office just months before the Pulwama affair.


----------



## JawadKKhan

Myth_buster_1 said:


> This system literally tells you what type of target is selected e.g helicopter, drone, aircraft etc and it even tells you model of the target e.g F-16, JF-17, Mirage-III etc. How the fk was the Spyder operator not able to know that its a Mi-17 helicopter. Regardless if the Mi-17 IFF was turn on or off the sypder still would have been able to tell its unidentified Mi-17 because pakistani Mi-17 would have shown as FOE not unidentified target. Isnt Indian Air Defence SOP not to get approval from higher ups after conformation before they engage the target? Or is it a cover up?
> I did provide videos and news articles of local IOK civilians (which I cant find due to obvious reasons) saying that they saw bunch of fast moving fighter jets before the chopper went down. I 100% believe those were PAF fighters that shot down Mi-17 and to deescalate the situation both Pak and Ind government decided to make Spyder the escape goat.


It is quite possible. 
When I first heard that MI-17 was shot down and 7 officers killed. I thought this would really escalate things now, but soon after Pak said that indian helicopter is shot down but we are not involved in it. My first guess was that its being said only to deescalate. For, india although shooting down own heli is quite a humiliation that their forces have no communication / coordination or integration gaps but on other hand its 100 times more acceptable for local consumption then a score done by Pakistan.

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## pkd

What about the SU-30 pilots who have died in car accidents subsequent to the 27 Feb episode?Have they been awarded as well?

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## TsAr

Pak Nationalist said:


> Way before his term was to end. He was sworn to the office just months before the Pulwama affair.


It was a political decision to make Gen Faiz SG ISI as he was more experienced.


----------



## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

The unmatched skills & professionalism.

There was at least one PAF female pilot who participated in operation Swift Retort.

Squadron Leader Saira Amin, who made history by becoming the first female to have earned a Sword of Honor in any defense academy of Pakistan, was said to be the co-pilot of a special operations aircraft during the PAF's assault on Indian military targets.

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## PakCan

What is this all about? Casualties on the ground , any truth to this?









Lecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot


The lecturer had congratulated his former student for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.



www.dawn.com


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## Myth_buster_1

@PanzerKiel 
You have expressed wow in couple of my posts regarding IAF mi17 shot down by PAF theory. Would love to hear your opinion. Are both Paf and iaf hiding something???

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## Riz

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 799575
> 
> 
> 
> The unmatched skills & professionalism.
> 
> There was at least one PAF female pilot who participated in operation Swift Retort.
> 
> Squadron Leader Saira Amin, who made history by becoming the first female to have earned a Sword of Honor in any defense academy of Pakistan, was said to be the co-pilot of a special operations aircraft during the PAF's assault on Indian military targets.


How good it feels when a Pakistani female pilot bombed Indian military brigade headquarter where cartoon bipin rawat was hiding with his few four star generals


----------



## Salza

Lecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot


The lecturer had congratulated his former student for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.



www.dawn.com


----------



## untitled

PakCan said:


> What is this all about? Casualties on the ground , any truth to this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot
> 
> 
> The lecturer had congratulated his former student for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com


The call was made to S/L Hasan Siddiqui not WC Nauman


----------



## PakCan

The article also mentioned causalities on the ground. Hopefully the truth can come out officially after a set period of time.


----------



## baqai

it was very unprofessional on his part to record the call in the first place, there are phones which come with phone recording turned on by default, we were told by our ethics and compliance to switch that setting off, during any/all zoom/MS teams meeting we need to take prior consent of everyone before a meeting is recorded else you can be subject to strict actions. I haven't even gone to the sharing part, i think he should had taken his punishment quietly instead of creating a mockery out of himself.

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## SQ8

baqai said:


> it was very unprofessional on his part to record the call in the first place, there are phones which come with phone recording turned on by default, we were told by our ethics and compliance to switch that setting off, during any/all zoom/MS teams meeting we need to take prior consent of everyone before a meeting is recorded else you can be subject to strict actions. I haven't even gone to the sharing part, i think he should had taken his punishment quietly instead of creating a mockery out of himself.


At the same time the pilot on the call in his excitement broke operational security as well.

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## SIPRA

SQ8 said:


> At the same time the pilot on the call in his excitement broke operational security as well.



It seems that he has not been prosecuted in this case.


----------



## baqai

SQ8 said:


> At the same time the pilot on the call in his excitement broke operational security as well.



someone was mentioning here that the news of him splashing a SU was quickly spread so that no actions were taken against him and that saved him. Not sure how forces work but at least for us civvies, if there is a high performing asset who goes around doing a stupid thing, that person is marked and will not get promoted beyond a certain level, by that time he/she either can live till retirement like that or take early retirement and move to some other company.


----------



## Riz

PakCan said:


> The article also mentioned causalities on the ground. Hopefully the truth can come out officially after a set period of time.


I remembered that call, in which pilot claimed not only 2 but there is more then 3 IAF jets which shot down by PAF including MI-17 helicopter , but the question is how PAF pilot knows about the 350 casualties ??


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## Gripen9

SQ8 said:


> At the same time the pilot on the call in his excitement broke operational security as well.


Loose lips sink ships......

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## Windjammer

Dawn is just assuming, rest assured the voice in the audio is neither Hassan Sadiqui or Nauman Ali. 
Remember these officers were on fighter sweep and not involved in the strikes.

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## Windjammer

So one of the JF-17 pilot involved in Swift Retort is a former Viper driver.

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## F86 Saber

Windjammer said:


> Dawn is just assuming, rest assured the voice in the audio is neither Hassan Sadiqui or Nauman Ali.
> Remember these officers were on fighter sweep and not involved in the strikes.



This was the doing of a disgruntled ex-PAF instructor who had already been in a legal battle with PAF. 2nd voice is not Hassan Siddiqui.


----------



## Windjammer

*PAF Ground Crew supporting the Swift Retort Patch.*

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## Side-Winder

Windjammer said:


> *PAF Ground Crew supporting the Swift Retort Patch.*
> 
> 
> View attachment 801640
> 
> View attachment 801641



I have this with me right now 😁

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## Menace2Society

One of the greatest comebacks in your history. This needs a movie.

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## Riz

Side-Winder said:


> I have this with me right now 😁
> 
> View attachment 801647


RIP Su-30 and Mig-21


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## Gripen9

Side-Winder said:


> I have this with me right now 😁
> 
> View attachment 801647



Going to be the grammar Nazi here... plural of aircraft is aircraft not _aircrafts._

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## Goenitz

Gripen9 said:


> Going to be the grammar Nazi here... plural of aircraft is aircraft not _aircrafts._


hmhm.. just saying nowadays we can use fishes as plural..


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## Reichmarshal

poor choice of words plus grammatical mistakes.
Should have done a lot better


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## Windjammer

The original patch had the word vehicles instead of aircraft or aircrafts.

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## Gripen9

Goenitz said:


> hmhm.. just saying nowadays we can use fishes as plural..











Definition of AIRCRAFT


a vehicle (such as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## Goenitz

Gripen9 said:


> Definition of AIRCRAFT
> 
> 
> a vehicle (such as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air… See the full definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merriam-webster.com


ok... I just meant English has changed a lot, and literal/academic is different than formal/normal speech.


----------



## Titanium100

Gripen9 said:


> Definition of AIRCRAFT
> 
> 
> a vehicle (such as an airplane or balloon) for traveling through the air… See the full definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merriam-webster.com



To much technicality in this thread now. Both can be used

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## Big_bud

What a gem of a video I have found on Youtube! IDK if it has been shared/discussed before. The guy can be heard saying 4 planes have dropped. He captures at least 3 aircraft like things falling from the sky. All fall with a thud!

It seems both sides have hidden some information. There are more losses than agreed by both sides. Open for commentry, what are your views?

@The Eagle @SQ8 @Panzer

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## Erroroverload

Big_bud said:


> What a gem of a video I have found on Youtube! IDK if it has been shared/discussed before. The guy can be heard saying 4 planes have dropped. He captures at least 3 aircraft like things falling from the sky. All fall with a thud!
> 
> It seems both sides have hidden some information. There are more losses than agreed by both sides. Open for commentry, what are your views?
> 
> @The Eagle @SQ8 @Panzer


clearly the tail of a mig. was there another mig or f7? it seems more then 1 plane was shot down that day.

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## untitled

Big_bud said:


> He captures at least 3 aircraft like things falling from the sky. All fall with a thud!


The MiG-21 broke into several pieces and all the wreckage did not fall in one place. Since these guys can see all the pieces falling from one vantage point, it is highly likely they belong to the same aircraft

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## The Eagle

Big_bud said:


> What a gem of a video I have found on Youtube! IDK if it has been shared/discussed before. The guy can be heard saying 4 planes have dropped. He captures at least 3 aircraft like things falling from the sky. All fall with a thud!
> 
> It seems both sides have hidden some information. There are more losses than agreed by both sides. Open for commentry, what are your views?
> 
> @The Eagle @SQ8 @Panzer



It has been discussed to very logical end along with two more videos from same location (Azad Kashmir). There's falling fuselage, the tail, ejection seat and then Abhinandan himself coming down. Makes it looks like 4 but that is the only MiG-21.

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## baqai

i think pieces of the same plane falling down


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## Cool_Soldier

no dear, Complete plane mig 21 was fell down and it was blast in air but caught fire after hitting by missile and fell down.
While chances are there that second one might abled to return towards its area and fell down there.

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## SQ8

Big_bud said:


> What a gem of a video I have found on Youtube! IDK if it has been shared/discussed before. The guy can be heard saying 4 planes have dropped. He captures at least 3 aircraft like things falling from the sky. All fall with a thud!
> 
> It seems both sides have hidden some information. There are more losses than agreed by both sides. Open for commentry, what are your views?
> 
> @The Eagle @SQ8 @Panzer


Just pieces of the same aircraft

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## Windjammer

*Initially i thought these Block-52 Vipers were just on their regular training sortie, but now I understand that this image is actually from post ''Swift Retort'' period as the birds are prowling on a hunt.*

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## Big_bud

Windjammer said:


> *Initially i thought these Block-52 Vipers were just on their regular training sortie, but now I understand that this image is actually from post ''Swift Retort'' period as the birds are prowling on a hunt.*
> 
> View attachment 805945



I wonder why we lack such high quality pics for JF17? We should have them for JF as well! Somehow PAF still celebrate F16 like their first love and treats JF as an outsider. Lol..


----------



## Trailer23

Big_bud said:


> I wonder why we lack such high quality pics for JF17? We should have them for JF as well! Somehow PAF still celebrate F16 like their first love and treats JF as an outsider. Lol..


Probably because JF-17 guys are too busy taking pictures of the Viper while flying next to them.

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## Warking

Ok was SU30 shot down and why did media say 2 pilots were captured what happened to the second one and were F16 used to shot down or JF17. I an argument with an indian need info. 


Trailer23 said:


> Probably because JF-17 guys are too busy taking pictures of the Viper while flying next to them.


----------



## Imran Khan

Warking said:


> Ok was SU30 shot down and why did media say 2 pilots were captured what happened to the second one and were F16 used to shot down or JF17. I an argument with an indian need info.


that day was misshandled by ISPR and asif ghafoor . we also see multiple images of abhinandon and we feel we have multiple pilots captured . but we are civilians asif ghafoor should not talk to media unless mission was over and he have full info . his quick talks and incomplete info created this mess . in 1998 when we have captured indian pilots we dont do such drama so india have no excuses like in 2021 .

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## Warking

Imran Khan said:


> that day was misshandled by ISPR and asif ghafoor . we also see multiple images of abhinandon and we feel we have multiple pilots captured . but we are civilians asif ghafoor should not talk to media unless mission was over and he have full info . his quick talks and incomplete info created this mess . in 1998 when we have captured indian pilots we dont do such drama so india have no excuses like in 2021 .


So was an SU29 shot down? Was a F16 shot down?


----------



## Pakistan Space Agency

Warking said:


> Ok was SU30 shot down and why did media say 2 pilots were captured what happened to the second one and were F16 used to shot down or JF17. I an argument with an indian need info.


DG ISPR Asif Ghafoor later corrected himself at a press conference that he was informed of the same 1 aircraft and the same 1 pilot from 2 different locations, so he had assumed there were 2 differrnt incidents.

Please watch from 3:50 onwards.

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## Trailer23

Warking said:


> So was an SU*29* shot down? Was a F16 shot down?


a. What Su-29?

- Yes, we shot an Su-30. Where else do you think the Indians found an exploded Aim-120C (AMRAAM)? It was pulled out of the @$$ of an Su-30.

b. The fact that you're even asking the question about the F-16 is sad.

- Has India provided an hard evidence/proof to back up their claim of shooting down a Viper. Not a single Foreign Agency has supported their claim. They couldn't even give a straight figure about how many  Terrorist they killed a day earlier in Balakot. The Air Force gave 1 figure, the Government gave another, their Media sources were giving their own.

Its been (nearly) 3 Years. Tell the Indian you're arguing with to move on - or simply relive old footage of Kargil. They have a habit of living in the past. They got their @$$ handed to 'em & now are looking for excuses that came on top.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

This thread will go on till PAF shoots down a Rafael....

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## Bleek

Warking said:


> Ok was SU30 shot down and why did media say 2 pilots were captured what happened to the second one and were F16 used to shot down or JF17. I an argument with an indian need info.


If the Indians can claim that due to the "confusion" during the chaos their own helicopter was shot down by themselves. Then it's even more likely that due to the same chaos, there was an error in the communication chain. Remember he was updating us LIVE as things unfolded so obviously it's likely that some things were unconfirmed and could've been guesses from other pieces of information being told.

It could be he mentioned two pilots captured because he was under the impression that they would find them both after their jets were taken down, as Pakistan claims Su-30MKI and MiG-21 kills. (And only one was found as we know)

Foreign Policy also confirmed the F-16s were all accounted for by American officials too. The story was provided by Lara Seligman, she tweeted it was her scoop. She has close ties with Pentagon officials. So it's a dead claim from their side.

(Pakistan also showed all MiG-21's missiles, and invited international officials to inspect for themselves)









Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.


New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.




foreignpolicy.com





Also most of their arguments, or all, have already been refuted by their favourite security analyst, Christine Fair. Who pretty much hates Pakistan but still denies their claims.






And here's the analysis of the aftermath of their strike on 26th, with satellite imagery:









India’s strike on Balakot: a very precise miss? | The Strategist


Ever since the stunning US success in the 1991 Gulf War, we have increasingly come to take precision bombing for granted. While militaries may sometimes misidentify a target, we assume that they can precisely hit ...




www.aspistrategist.org.au






Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> This thread will go on till PAF shoots down a Rafael....


Lol, when that happens the world is going to stop calling Chinese technology "cheap copies" and "fakes". 

Chinese military equipment sales and reputation ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Bleek said:


> If the Indians can claim that due to the "confusion" during the chaos their own helicopter was shot down by themselves. Then it's even more likely that due to the same chaos, there was an error in the communication chain. Remember he was updating us LIVE as things unfolded so obviously it's likely that some things were unconfirmed and could've been guesses from other pieces of information being told.
> 
> It could be he mentioned two pilots captured because he was under the impression that they would find them both after their jets were taken down, as Pakistan claims Su-30MKI and MiG-21 kills. (And only one was found as we know)
> 
> Foreign Policy also confirmed the F-16s were all accounted for by American officials too. The story was provided by Lara Seligman, she tweeted it was her scoop. She has close ties with Pentagon officials. So it's a dead claim from their side.
> 
> (Pakistan also showed all MiG-21's missiles, and invited international officials to inspect for themselves)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did India Shoot Down a Pakistani Jet? U.S. Count Says No.
> 
> 
> New Delhi and Islamabad had conflicting accounts of a February dogfight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also most of their arguments, or all, have already been refuted by their favourite security analyst, Christine Fair. Who pretty much hates Pakistan but still denies their claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's the analysis of the aftermath of their strike on 26th, with satellite imagery:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India’s strike on Balakot: a very precise miss? | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Ever since the stunning US success in the 1991 Gulf War, we have increasingly come to take precision bombing for granted. While militaries may sometimes misidentify a target, we assume that they can precisely hit ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, when that happens the world is going to stop calling Chinese technology "cheap copies" and "fakes".
> 
> Chinese military equipment sales and reputation ⬆⬆⬆⬆


If Chiristian Fair can't be "fair" to them (according to their own terms) then nobody in the world can! Their claims are so disgusting even to her intellect that she had to ask them to meet her at the parking lot...

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## Raja Porus



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## syedakm

Pretty solid proof of Su-30 shootdown








Agencia EFE


La Agencia EFE es la primera agencia de noticias en castellano, con más de 3000 profesionales de 60 nacionalidades.




www.efe.com

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## Path-Finder

3rd anniversary cometh, yet the issue remains volcanic.

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## Bleek

syedakm said:


> Pretty solid proof of Su-30 shootdown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agencia EFE
> 
> 
> La Agencia EFE es la primera agencia de noticias en castellano, con más de 3000 profesionales de 60 nacionalidades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.efe.com


Could that be the helicopter?


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## Fioril

Bleek said:


> Could that be the helicopter?


No 6 people died in helicopter crash and was accepted by Indian Army. This is definitely the crash of Su30 but this news conflicts with the notion that a certain someone belonging to another country ejected and was caught by Pakistan the same day.

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## Riz

How PAF mirages launched SOWs (H-4) on 27 feb

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## Ali_Baba

Riz said:


> How PAF mirages launched SOWs (H-4) on 27 feb
> View attachment 809089



It took 2 planes and 4 crew (with JF17s and F16s providing BVR cover ) to deliver one SOW with Line of Site of Control putting the host platform at risk. As a swan song - Swift Retort was perfect to sing out the career of the Mirage series - but PAF needs to transition to autonomous fire and forget SOW platforms with multipayload capability of SOW;s - eg 2 Ra'ads/Babus/CM400s on a single JF17, etc...

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## Danish Moazzam

Ali_Baba said:


> It took 2 planes and 4 crew (with JF17s and F16s providing BVR cover ) to deliver one SOW with Line of Site of Control putting the host platform at risk. As a swan song - Swift Retort was perfect to sing out the career of the Mirage series - but PAF needs to transition to autonomous fire and forget SOW platforms with multipayload capability of SOW;s - eg 2 Ra'ads/Babus/CM400s on a single JF17, etc...


Well PAF wanted to scare the SH!T out of the Indian Chief so they used the guided munition and kept control of it till the last moment and then re routed the point of detonation. it was a very very strong message

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## SQ8

Hoping to lock this thread on 2/27/2022. It happened and the military did good - MOVE ON!

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Path-Finder said:


> 3rd anniversary cometh, yet the issue remains volcanic.


If they can make the _Zikr_ of '71 with their every breath why not 02-27?

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## Bleek

SQ8 said:


> Hoping to lock this thread on 2/27/2022. It happened and the military did good - MOVE ON!


When you lock it can you please leave the last message as an image of Abhinandan sipping tea and a caption reading: "The tea is fantastic"

Also add the information screenshot showing what each side achieved in the skirmish.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Danish Moazzam said:


> Well PAF wanted_* to scare the SH!T out of the Indian Chief *_so they used the guided munition and kept control of it till the last moment and then re routed the point of detonation. it was a very very strong message


In the US military jargon: grab the ba##$...


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## hussain0216

Danish Moazzam said:


> Well PAF wanted to scare the SH!T out of the Indian Chief so they used the guided munition and kept control of it till the last moment and then re routed the point of detonation. it was a very very strong message



What PAF started, IAF ended 😂😂😂

Bipin didn't even live to see the third anniversary 😂

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## Trango Towers

hussain0216 said:


> What PAF started, IAF ended 😂😂😂
> 
> Bipin didn't even live to see the third anniversary 😂


Oos ki phat gye


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## Path-Finder

SQ8 said:


> Hoping to lock this thread on 2/27/2022. It happened and the military did good - MOVE ON!


why nay


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## raja786

SQ8 said:


> Hoping to lock this thread on 2/27/2022. It happened and the military did good - MOVE ON!


I would say this should remain open as we need some concrete evidence from our own and I think that will be made public soon. The Su30 kill, and few more facts on that day, on the day alot of info was coming out but it got deleted by certain authorities even on this forum information was deleted, so I would suggest let all that info come out till its safe to do so.


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## The Maverick

global records have no su30 kill.that day 
because no proof 
only in pak media 
same for f16 kill.only in indian media 
not global records

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## Shah_Deu

The Maverick said:


> global records have no su30 kill.that day
> because no proof
> only in pak media
> same for f16 kill.only in indian media
> not global records


Well your attempt to equate the loss of your Su30 with our F-16 is futile. F-16s were counted in front of the Americans, but the Su-30s were never counted by any other party. Why hide something which makes your case strong? The whole racks on Mig-21 carrying the remnants of the unfired missiles were also shown to the world. So your claim of F-16 loss is pretty much as real as little green men on mars. Now, coming to the 'missile truck', since that episode has bared open many lies from Indian side that day, from 300 dead in strikes to a false claim of downed F-16, believing them on the Su-30 account is insane, with the Mig-21 going down with jammed communications, our claim of downing a Su-30 isn't that unreasonable.

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## maverick1977

Huffal said:


> NO F***** WAY YOU ARE BACK WASSSUUUPPP




This Maverick is so fake and so in denial with IAF a$$ whooping that its not worth replying to him anymore

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## Primus

maverick1977 said:


> This Maverick is so fake and so in denial with IAF a$$ whooping that its not worth replying to him anymore


Ik but its funny

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## Cryptic_Mafia

The Maverick said:


> global records have no su30 kill.that day
> because no proof
> only in pak media
> same for f16 kill.only in indian media
> not global records


mitaaar you are correct!

as Modi g say " naa hum martay hain na hamai koi maar saktay hai hum toh cockroach hai nuclear bhi hamara kuch nai bigar sakta"


wah Modi g wah! wahhh!!

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## The Maverick

There's no record boys of mki kill.or f16 kill

it has gone down.as claim.only

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## White and Green with M/S

The Maverick said:


> There's no record boys of mki kill.or f16 kill
> 
> it has gone down.as claim.only


Military didn't shows sensetive information about kill to the common public dude, and most convincing proof for MKI kill was wreckage of amraam that's you showed On your TV

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## The Eagle

The Maverick said:


> There's no record boys of mki kill.or f16 kill
> 
> it has gone down.as claim.only



From Vir Chakra to no record on this day; thanks for refreshing and reviving thread as well as start of eating back your words. What India has become. Good enough to contradict IAF. What PAF says, is something to be proven from this side.

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## TopGun786

Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. | Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30 MKI being shot by PAF? Eyewitness from Indian side of LoC... | By Pakistan D


65K views, 2.5K likes, 262 loves, 160 comments, 823 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Pakistan Defence: Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30...




fb.watch




Here is the proof of Su30 mki shot by Pakistan Air Force in Feb, 2019.

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## Bleek

Khawar Mahmood said:


> Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. | Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30 MKI being shot by PAF? Eyewitness from Indian side of LoC... | By Pakistan D
> 
> 
> 65K views, 2.5K likes, 262 loves, 160 comments, 823 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Pakistan Defence: Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the proof of Su30 mki shot by Pakistan Air Force in Feb, 2019.


They described literally the exact thing Kaiser Tufail and PAF claimed, a successful direct hit but he managed to escape the area and likely crashed on the other side! 😲

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## TopGun786

Bleek said:


> They described literally the exact thing Kaiser Tufail and PAF claimed, a successful direct hit but he managed to escape the area and likely crashed on the other side! 😲


Yes, it was crashed on the Indian occupied side. There is even a video of the interview of one of the dead pilot's widow.


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## Riz

With these large sticks mirages penetrated deep inside modi india on 27 feb 2019

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## The Eagle

Lest not stoop too low on ethics and post such language that none of us will ever use within family at home. Do not destroy the very ethical and mannered fabric of Forum. No one knows how many females we have on board. Be civilized at-least.

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## ummarz

Khawar Mahmood said:


> Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. | Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30 MKI being shot by PAF? Eyewitness from Indian side of LoC... | By Pakistan D
> 
> 
> 65K views, 2.5K likes, 262 loves, 160 comments, 823 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Pakistan Defence: Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the proof of Su30 mki shot by Pakistan Air Force in Feb, 2019.


You know I was fairly neutral to the SU-30 claim until now. This video is enough for me. They couldn't have mistaken the MIG 21as SU-30. MIG was flying towards PAK and these eyewitnesses claim the jet flying back towards India after being hit and on fire. Thats two separate jets boys. We done it. With the Indian Army curfews and control in Kashmir, it was well hidden. As far as pilots are concerned, at least one ejected. Where is he?, did he make it, or was he "taken care of" as in to tie the loose ends.

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## Bleek

ummarz said:


> You know I was fairly neutral to the SU-30 claim until now. This video is enough for me. They couldn't have mistaken the MIG 21as SU-30. MIG was flying towards PAK and these eyewitnesses claim the jet flying back towards India after being hit and on fire. Thats two separate jets boys. We done it. With the Indian Army curfews and control in Kashmir, it was well hidden. As far as pilots are concerned, at least one ejected. Where is he?, did he make it, or was he "taken care of" as in to tie the loose ends.


No need to take care of him, generally Indians would keep quiet/lie on behalf of their country, you don't see Abhinandan denying his "kill".

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## Trango Towers

Bleek said:


> No need to take care of him, generally Indians would keep quiet/lie on behalf of their country, you don't see Abhinandan denying his "kill".


Abhinandan is the most honorable Indian of all.

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## Bleek

Trango Towers said:


> Abhinandan is the most honorable Indian of all.


The most honorable Indian in his most honorable state:


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## Trango Towers

Bleek said:


> The most honorable Indian in his most honorable state:


Have you heard anything against Pakistan from his lips. He stayed true to his word. He has never claimed f16 kill. All of India has but not him

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## Bossman

Trango Towers said:


> Have you heard anything against Pakistan from his lips. He stayed true to his word. He has never claimed f16 kill. All of India has but not him


We should award him a posthumous Nishan-e- Haider. Mark my word the Indians will kill him soon.


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## Trango Towers

Bossman said:


> We should award him a posthumous Nishan-e- Haider. Mark my word the Indians will kill him soon.


No need for that.
But we must respect an honorable man. He may be an enemy but he is true to his word. Being an enemy was his bad luck.

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## Bossman

Trango Towers said:


> No need for that.
> But we must respect an honorable man. He may be an enemy but he is true to his word. Being an enemy was his bad luck.



Mine was a tongue in cheek response. But I really worry about his safety as he would be considered a risk as he knows the truth. This is how the deep state operates.

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## Mr.Cringeworth

Its true that global records do not have the su 30 or the f16 kill but on the other hand the f16 kill has been refuted by reputable sources even in the US government while no such thing happened for the indian su 30.

If no su 30 was shot down why didn't you have a count done by any third party like paf did and why didn't Russia come to support your claim?
Countless amount of evidence is there where even the local Indians have seen a plane crashing in your territory and then there was also a very sketchy news of two pilots dying in a car crash where no pictures have been posted.


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## TopGun786

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2330050723943787




Adding another very well-known video where Indians themselves confirmed that their SU30 mki was shot down. Now, this is not something to ignore even 1 percent. Later they denied but how is this possible that a very major media channel breaks the news of SU30 shot down? Is it a joke? If it is a joke then it is the worst blunder in military history. They confessed first but in the nick of time they realized what mistake they have made, However, there was no use to cry over spilt milk now. It is a very shameful thing that they try to cover up this now. On ther other hand they claimed that a PAF F-16 was shot down of which they never provided any proof.

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## Riz

Have they able to find the remaining 5 AMMARAAm which famous SU-30 MkI dodged ? But how they were able to find the one which they displayed within few hours of operation swift retort?

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## SIPRA

Riz said:


> Have they able to find the remaining 5 AMMARAAm which famous SU-30 MkI dodged ? But how they were able to find the one which they displayed within few hours of operation swift retort?



Baaqi waalay 5 abhi milay naheen. Dhoondh rahay haen.


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## TopGun786

Do you also know that '' As of August 2019, eleven Su-30MKIs had been lost to crashes since the introduction of aircraft in 2000'' but in mid-2020 India ordered ''12'' SU30 mki to replenish those who were lost in accidents? Ahem Ahem.... I think you must have got my point.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...s-12-su-30s/articleshow/76452881.cms?from=mdr

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## TopGun786

And regardless of the fact which pilot it was (SU-30mki or M-17) please check the date of this video upload (clearly right after the Feb, 19) and words of that unfortunate widow. It also shows how the Indian government changed/erased the facts later just to hide their humiliation and embarrassment.








Wife of the other Indian Pilot ‘Ninad’ Flying SU-30MKI which was shot down by PAF. Indian govt did not claimed the pilot neither the Jet because of the... | By Pakistan Army-The Holy Warriors-Lions Of Allah | Facebook


402 views, 5 likes, 0 loves, 0 comments, 5 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Pakistan Army-The Holy Warriors-Lions Of Allah: Wife of the other Indian Pilot ‘Ninad’ Flying SU-30MKI which was shot...




fb.watch

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## Ali_Baba

Bleek said:


> The most honorable Indian in his most honorable state:




He is an officer who is following orders - that ceremony is him following orders as an officer. He has never said he shot down anything ever. That is integrity of a warrior, and so far i have alot of respect for him in the way he has handled himself.

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## Bleek

Ali_Baba said:


> He is an officer who is following orders - that ceremony is him following orders as an officer. He has never said he shot down anything ever. That is integrity of a warrior, and so far i have alot of respect for him in the way he has handled himself.


Orders built upon lies, he made himself look goofy. No respect for any Indian in the army. But I understand he did what he had to do otherwise they would off him.

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## SIPRA

Ali_Baba said:


> He is an officer who is following orders - that ceremony is him following orders as an officer. He has never said he shot down anything ever. That is integrity of a warrior, and so far i have alot of respect for him in the way he has handled himself.



Agree.

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## AeroEngineer

Ali_Baba said:


> He is an officer who is following orders - that ceremony is him following orders as an officer. He has never said he shot down anything ever. That is integrity of a warrior, and so far i have alot of respect for him in the way he has handled himself.


The honor code drilled into every cadet is, “I will not lie, cheat or steal and will not permit anyone among us who does so “. In a way he has not shown integrity and honor by allowing himself to be part of the lie. Honorable conduct in an ideal world would have had him resign rather than be a silent collaborator in this charade. But in an ideal world. Keeping publicly mum still would have required of him to resist considerable pressure.

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## The Eagle

AeroEngineer said:


> The honor code drilled into every cadet is, “I will not lie, cheat or steal and will not permit anyone among us who does so “. In a way he has not shown integrity and honor by allowing himself to be part of the lie. Honorable conduct in an ideal world would have had him resign rather than be a silent collaborator in this charade. But in an ideal world. Keeping publicly mum still would have required of him to resist considerable pressure.



He is promised of all the services perks and retirement allowances to keep mum and play with State. In return of comprising the honour code, he is being assured that no one will reach at-least for 15 years to ask him questions and tell the Truth. A marriage with benefits for both parties with convincing conditions accepted given the high risk of him alone losing everything from grace to job and perks to meet his family end needs. 

Since State was at play, the already downed pilot with probability of almost zero fighting courage left, had no choice but to sail with current of lies and propaganda as such. He needed much of that life saving jacket so he had it.

In the end, no show of moral and courage by both the parties - State and it's pilot, the Abhinandan.

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## TheTallGuy

Gentlemen, some perspective from the otherside.


















As per Mr.Kaiser Tufail
"Two pairs of fighters escorted the strike packages, while four sections of 4-ship fighters each, patrolled along the LOC. The F-16s were armed with 4xAIM-120C-5 and 2xAIM-9M missiles, while the JF-17s were armed with 2xSD-10 and 2xPL-5 missiles."


As i understand "Samer Joshi" is just discussing one single engagement at that moment in time.

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## TopGun786

Does not matter how many AMRAAMs were fired... 5 or 6.... What matters is that day we shot 2 Indian jets, one being their top of line (Su30) and best part is that none of their Su30s was able to lock or fire on a single PAF jet.
That day was a clear Ariel dominance day for Pakistan.

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## Salza

Even Indian experts in their hearts knows the truth that their Su30 was most likely was shot down as well but they don't have courage to call it in public

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## Path-Finder

I haven't got around to seeing it myself yet! but the lying vediks are doing everything to sell their dung and manure of a mig shooting down F16.

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## TopGun786

Salza said:


> Even Indian experts in their hearts knows the truth that their Su30 was most likely was shot down as well but they don't have courage to call it in public


Most likely? Certainly!


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## Primus

Path-Finder said:


> I haven't got around to seeing it myself yet! but the lying vediks are doing everything to sell their dung and manure of a mig shooting down F16.


I wasted 32 minutes of my life watching that.

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## GiantPanda

Indians still desperately trying to convince someone, anyone that they somehow shot down a F-16 that even the US had accounted for?!?

Very embarassing for anyone watching their desperation. Even I feel embarassment for them. lol

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## M.SAAD

TopGun786 said:


> Most likely? Certainly!




Definitely took a Amraam hit, its fate however is still unknown.
Whether it survived the hit and landed back, or got blownup to pieces.


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## Bin Laden

Huffal said:


> I wasted 32 minutes of my life watching that.


Haha I watched it at 2x dude just spoke to slow and even that was mostly carefully crafted BS to appease Pajeets,It was clear from the beginning when he said his mig 21 video got a lot of views and comments about f16 getting shot,obviously by brain dead indian.

The most ridiculous part was however tha he gave brownie point to Indians that they admitted their mig21 and mi17 were downed early so we gotta give believe their stance true about su30 aswell since if it was downed they would've told about it aswell, .. yeah right mig21 crashed in pak territory with pilot captured alive it was lost cause anyway this argument made sense if mig 21 crashed in indian territory and still indian admitted openly.

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## TheTallGuy

Guys.. this post that i made had nothing to do with the F-16 Shot down claim at all!!

F16 was claim by MiG-21...i had posted F16 - Su-30MKI engagement perspective from the other side.

Interestingly if you notice...He is Talking about No.15 Sqn (Su-30MKI) that were on Standing CAP. you do know they had awarded No.221 Sqn (SU-30MKI) pilot for Dodging AMRAAMS.

So. 
At that time. 
2 x Su-30MKI No.15 Sqn (Standing CAP - South of Pir Panjal)
2 x Mirage 2000I No.1 Sqn (Standing CAP - North of Pir Panjal)
2 x Su-30MKI No.221 Sqn (Near pathankot-Kathua area attempted to engage)
4 x MiG-21BISON (No.51 Sqn) Scramblers from SRINAGAR AFB

so that is the actual IAF disposition at the Time of OSR in Kashmir Sector.

===

What interesting is we never get to hear about Mirage 2000 engagement

Also how they are able to register AMRAAM launches.

May be just may be - i am right about 3 x Su-30MKI and 2 x Mirage 2000 and 3 x MiG-21s biting to dust.

but then again if the any enemy is saying 5-6 AMRAAM Launches with MAR breached. i just cant see only one shot down.

that is why real question is how the IAF detected 5-6 launches.

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## TheTallGuy

By the if any body thinks what did PAF shot down (Su-30MKI) it was from No.221 Sqn (Which is called AVENGER)






So.
No.15 Sqn (Su-30MKI) are from SIRSA AFB (AVENGER 1/2)
No.221 Sqn (SU-30MKI) are from Halwara AFB (AVENGER 3/4)

It is interesting..

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## K_Bin_W

After 2 years you guys are still trying to rub it in  .. BTW had you not had Abhinandan enjoying the fantastic tea Indians would have denied losing Mig 21 too.


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## Path-Finder

Huffal said:


> I wasted 32 minutes of my life watching that.


well thanks for saving my 32 minutes, I was going to watch it now.

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## baqai

Ali_Baba said:


> He is an officer who is following orders - that ceremony is him following orders as an officer. He has never said he shot down anything ever. That is integrity of a warrior, and so far i have alot of respect for him in the way he has handled himself.



by accepting the award he is indirectly accepting the goverment's version although i feel sorry for the poor guy for being in such a catch 22 situation

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## Primus

Path-Finder said:


> I haven't got around to seeing it myself yet! but the lying vediks are doing everything to sell their dung and manure of a mig shooting down F16.


Dude says he finds india more credible for not changing their story without realising they changed their story 4 times before the final one which is the one we see today

The first denied any loss of aircraft

Then acknowledged the mig 21 loss but said it was due to engine failure

Then they said the mig 21 was finally shot down and pilot captured

Finally they said the mig 21 shot down a f16 before being shot down.

Secondly, this persons analysis is full of holes. He looks at the pentagon count and what not, and disregards it (for both FP and Hindustan Times),but fails to realise the person that made the FP article was a literal pentagon correspondent.

Not to mention how he does not even try to research about the ensuing air combat, in the sense that the mig 21 comms and radar were jammed, meaning how the hell could he have seen the f16 let alone gain a firing solution. He also uses old sources from Pakistan such as no f16 used, yet if he truly researched about the skirmish, it is evident that Pakistan accepeted the use of F16 in combat. He also goes on to mention how long it took for Pakistan to release images of the missiles, yet fails to realise how long it took for India to release their heli being shot down and how. Not to mention how he literally disregarded the missiles being shown, because the r73 on the left was 'too intact compared to the one on the right'. He fails to mention the condition of the R77 on both sides and also fails to look at what other analysts have said regarding the condition of the missiles, such as Alan Warnes or Kaiser Tufail, who literally explained why the R73 and R77, on the left were intact compared to the right, that being the mig 21 landed on its right side, hence all the missiles on the right side were damaged badly, and those on the left were damaged but not as bad.

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## Bin Laden

Huffal said:


> they changed their story 4 times before the final one which is the one we see today


More like 5 they said they killed around 300+ terrorists lmao then after getting exposed backed down on those claims.

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## SIPRA

Bin Laden said:


> More like 5 they said they killed around 300+ terrorists lmao then after getting exposed backed down on those claims.



They also kept on claiming, for quite some days, that 3 places were attacked, including Balakot, Muzaffarabad and Chakothi.


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## Path-Finder

Huffal said:


> Dude says he finds india more credible for not changing their story without realising they changed their story 4 times before the final one which is the one we see today
> 
> The first denied any loss of aircraft
> 
> Then acknowledged the mig 21 loss but said it was due to engine failure
> 
> Then they said the mig 21 was finally shot down and pilot captured
> 
> Finally they said the mig 21 shot down a f16 before being shot down.
> 
> Secondly, this persons analysis is full of holes. He looks at the pentagon count and what not, and disregards it (for both FP and Hindustan Times),but fails to realise the person that made the FP article was a literal pentagon correspondent.
> 
> Not to mention how he does not even try to research about the ensuing air combat, in the sense that the mig 21 comms and radar were jammed, meaning how the hell could he have seen the f16 let alone gain a firing solution. He also uses old sources from Pakistan such as no f16 used, yet if he truly researched about the skirmish, it is evident that Pakistan accepeted the use of F16 in combat. He also goes on to mention how long it took for Pakistan to release images of the missiles, yet fails to realise how long it took for India to release their heli being shot down and how. Not to mention how he literally disregarded the missiles being shown, because the r73 on the left was 'too intact compared to the one on the right'. He fails to mention the condition of the R77 on both sides and also fails to look at what other analysts have said regarding the condition of the missiles, such as Alan Warnes or Kaiser Tufail, who literally explained why the R73 and R77, on the left were intact compared to the right, that being the mig 21 landed on its right side, hence all the missiles on the right side were damaged badly, and those on the left were damaged but not as bad.


well I suspected as much that the 'expert' will toe indian narrative.

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## Bin Laden

Path-Finder said:


> well I suspected as much that the 'expert' will toe indian narrative.


He tried his best to fork out Gen. Asif Ghaffur's mistaken tweet about an other pilot died in hospital(which he did clarified later on was an error).
But this propaganda collapsed on its own when he later on tries to make a Case that it might have been a twin seater F16,But how does it explains the single pilot dead 🤔
Like pick one either it was a twin seater so there must be 2 pilots or if it was a single seater than how you explain 2 parachutes spotted weren't from su30mki.

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## PradoTLC

cant believe indians are still dumb enough to be still believe the F-16 story...


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## NA71

This is all what happen when you go with "if - so - then- but" loop. We haven't released the video of 2nd hit and probably will never release..... bigger objectives came into play...

Ask PAF guys how many locked they got during that air battle? Assume they were allowed to take shots of even half of their locked targets..... This YouTuber would never dare to make one sided story....

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## Dr. Abdul Basit

Sorry if already posted

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## ghazi52

Where is the cake...................................

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## zpak

Huffal said:


> Dude says he finds india more credible for not changing their story without realising they changed their story 4 times before the final one which is the one we see today
> 
> The first denied any loss of aircraft
> 
> Then acknowledged the mig 21 loss but said it was due to engine failure
> 
> Then they said the mig 21 was finally shot down and pilot captured
> 
> Finally they said the mig 21 shot down a f16 before being shot down.
> 
> Secondly, this persons analysis is full of holes. He looks at the pentagon count and what not, and disregards it (for both FP and Hindustan Times),but fails to realise the person that made the FP article was a literal pentagon correspondent.
> 
> Not to mention how he does not even try to research about the ensuing air combat, in the sense that the mig 21 comms and radar were jammed, meaning how the hell could he have seen the f16 let alone gain a firing solution. He also uses old sources from Pakistan such as no f16 used, yet if he truly researched about the skirmish, it is evident that Pakistan accepeted the use of F16 in combat. He also goes on to mention how long it took for Pakistan to release images of the missiles, yet fails to realise how long it took for India to release their heli being shot down and how. Not to mention how he literally disregarded the missiles being shown, because the r73 on the left was 'too intact compared to the one on the right'. He fails to mention the condition of the R77 on both sides and also fails to look at what other analysts have said regarding the condition of the missiles, such as Alan Warnes or Kaiser Tufail, who literally explained why the R73 and R77, on the left were intact compared to the right, that being the mig 21 landed on its right side, hence all the missiles on the right side were damaged badly, and those on the left were damaged but not as bad.



Just ask Magnar why the Mi17 was flying in airspace that was completely locked down and then he completely falls apart.

Its all a business for him to get as many likes from the larger country. Its business, not truth.

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## ghazi52

Lessons Learnt from Operation Swift Retort​
*Since 2019, every year February serves as reminder of the Balakot strike as well as Pakistan’s befitting response to India*








The Balakot strike by the Indian Air Force (IAF) on February 26, 2019, and Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) ‘Swift Retort’ a day later can be considered watershed events in modern aerial warfare. Though the IAF’s strike was beset with technical snags, including failure of stand-off bombs to guide themselves to the target due to faulty terrain elevation data, it was able to deliver the ordnance – albeit, in the pine forests – from as far as 40 kms away. Interception of the ingressing IAF fighters threw up a new conundrum: flying in their own territory, the hostile intentions of the fighters could not be read in advance and they could not be fired at lest Pakistan be accused of unprovoked aggression. After weapons release, the IAF aircraft rapidly turned back and could not be chased for the fear of violating the international rules of engagement as the release of bombs – and breach of peace – was discovered only after some time. 

The key to any Pakistani response to Indian aggression was prompt decision-making by the government. The Prime Minister immediately went into parleys with the service chiefs, and a proportionate response by PAF was agreed upon. With a decision taken by the Prime Minister to definitely respond, the nuts and bolts of the operation were left to the Chief of the Air Staff. The latter was mindful of the possibility of escalation and the planning process that followed duly took this aspect into account.

*The key to any Pakistani response to Indian aggression was prompt decision-making by the government. The Prime Minister immediately went into parleys with the service chiefs, and a proportionate response by PAF was agreed upon.*


PAF retaliated within 30 hours of the IAF’s strike, and hit Indian targets with stand-off bombs, staying well within our own territory. The sizeable strike package including its escorts, as well as the accompanying fighter sweep aircraft, swamped the Indian air defence radar scopes and the patrolling Su-30 aircraft were promptly vectored towards the PAF swarm. Sooner the PAF strike fighters had delivered the bombs and turned around, the F-16s and JF-17s swept the skies with very useful support from the data-linked airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) and ground radars, as well as from own formation members. The pilots were glued to their multi-function displays streaming vital information and firing cues. It was as if a whole squadron was playing a mass video game in the skies. With excellent situational awareness, and the adversary in disarray, an approaching Su-30 was targeted by one of the PAF fighters with a Beyond Visual Range missile. Besides the Su-30s, the patrolling IAF Mirage 2000s seemed shell-shocked as well and did not enter the fray. MiG-21 Bisons on ground alert had, therefore, to be scrambled. All this time PAF’s airborne and ground jammers were at work, and the IAF pilots and air defence controllers were thrown into total confusion. As one of the scrambled MiGs appeared on the radar scope of another PAF fighter aircraft, a missile was fired, which shot the MiG out of the sky, the pilot surviving by a whisker and parachuting into Pakistani territory. 

The mission flown by PAF was unique in many ways. The ground targets had been identified and prepared well in advance for exactly such an eventuality. The pilots had routinely practised flying in formations as large as 50 aircraft, with electronic countermeasure (ECM) support and comprehensive situational awareness provided by the AEW&C aircraft. BVR missiles were used in the Indo-Pak scenario for the first time; interestingly, close combat situations did not crop up for the classic dogfighters. It was manifest that BVR combat had taken precedence over close combat, if not rendering it completely obsolete. 

A fighter in any future conflict must therefore have both long and short range missile firing capabilities along with associated sensors like radars, threat warning systems, and data links. PAF could do well by urgently replacing its legacy fighters with ‘home-grown’ JF-17s (especially the upcoming Block III version) which have all the desirable attributes at an affordable cost.

For surface attack, stand-off capabilities were demonstrated by both air forces, and the safety of attacking an aircraft was clearly highlighted. Accuracy of the attacks was, however, not achieved for different reasons: the IAF suffering from faulty terrain data being fed into the bombs’ guidance system, and PAF being constrained by political considerations to prevent escalation by avoiding direct hits on military targets. In any case, the efficacy of stand-off weapon delivery was unmistakably validated, and it is certain that this is likely to be the mode of choice in any future conflict. An aircraft not having such a weapon delivery capability should be considered redundant for surface attack missions.

*All this time PAF’s airborne and ground jammers were at work, and the IAF pilots and air defence controllers were thrown into total confusion. As one of the scrambled MiGs appeared on the radar scope of another PAF fighter aircraft, a missile was fired, which shot the MiG out of the sky, the pilot surviving by a whisker and parachuting into Pakistani territory.*


India had the initiative, and could also exploit the element of secrecy and surprise to its advantage. However, these possible benefits were squandered by the IAF as the operation was flawed in its planning and entirely disastrous in its execution. Some of the basic planning considerations were flouted: cloudy weather resulted in the cancellation of the electro-optical weapons delivery; elevation data fed into the autonomous Spice 2000 bombs was in error; capabilities of the PAF’s BVR air-to-air missiles were not well-known to the IAF aircrew; and the determination as well as the state of readiness of PAF was taken lightly. More serious was the failure of IAF’s patrolling fighters to pick up the gauntlet when challenged, allowing PAF fighters to have a free run; it reflected poorly on the morale and training of IAF pilots. Oversight of the operation was faulty at all levels of command and cannot be put down to bad luck by an air force that claims to be professional.

Despite PAF finding itself in a reactive mode, the latter’s full operational preparedness clearly saved the day. The whole operation was over within 48 hours, and the deployment of strike elements of ground forces did not take place. It became amply clear that air forces offer the best and swiftest means of retribution under a nuclear overhang as the relatively slow positioning of ground troops to their operational areas is fraught with the possibility of being stymied due to international pressure. PAF’s _tour de force_ will, thus, serve as a model for dealing with any future Indian military action that is punitive in nature. PAF’s preparedness must continue to be refined as IAF is expected to iron out the hitches that dogged its operations during the failed Balakot strike.

It is to be noted that after a disastrous showing by IAF on February 26 and 27, the Indian government unwisely decided to even the score by deploying – conceivably, for employing – surface-to-surface missiles (SSMs) against targets in Pakistan. Apparently, this measure was aimed at preventing further fighter losses at the hands of the PAF that was perceived by the IAF as being technically superior.

Exercise of the rash and senseless decision to deploy SSMs could well have been misconstrued by Pakistan and a catastrophic exchange could have followed between the two nuclear-armed neighbours. The Government of Pakistan, as well as its Armed Forces, should treat it as a textbook lesson in regional conflict escalation dynamics and must remain cognisant of such developments in any future conflict. 

*More serious was the failure of IAF’s patrolling fighters to pick up the gauntlet when challenged, allowing PAF fighters to have a free run; it reflected poorly on the morale and training of IAF pilots. Oversight of the operation was faulty at all levels of command and cannot be put down to bad luck by an air force that claims to be professional.*
With the Rubicon having been crossed after the Balakot raid, use of IAF fighters to compliment the usual artillery shelling across the Line of Control is likely to be the new norm for intimidating Pakistan. 

Though the failed IAF strike did not bring any concrete dividends, it did open up the possibility for India to repeat such actions in the future. The mistakes made in planning and execution of February 26/27, 2019 operation are certain to have been remedied, and it would be naïve to believe that India is not raring for a revenge bout. India has never digested the fact that its military options against Pakistan have been thwarted by the latter’s nuclear capability. To keep an upper hand as a regional player, India is likely to resort to periodic muscle-flexing through so-called ‘surgical strikes.’ Pakistan’s military, especially the quick-reacting PAF, needs to maintain its operational readiness at the cutting edge to deter India from any adventurism in the future.

Unfortunately, the reaction of the international community to India’s brazen aggression against Pakistan was muted and any outright condemnation was absent. 

The closest any country got to a disapproval was a ‘neither here nor there’ statement, calling all parties to exercise restraint. In an environment where freedom movements are labelled as terror campaigns – as in Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir and Palestine – it is not difficult for host governments to justify punitive actions against suspected supporters. Pakistan needs to be wary of this reprehensible trend, and needs to be at the diplomatic forefront to quell hostile propaganda by its adversaries, especially India.








AIR CDRE KAISER TUFAIL (R)​The writer is a retired fighter pilot and aviation historian.
E-mail: ksrtfl@gmail.com

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## Primus



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## ghazi52



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## GriffinsRule

Maybe because it's February, but I heard this song come up and I couldn't help think it was written for PAF as a response to the poor Indians getting slapped on both cheeks (Mig and Su style) in broad daylight and then their trolls asking us to prove we slapped them! 






Maybe someone will use it in their next video 😄 @Trailer23 

What do you guys think? Lyrics seem to just fit no? @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @PanzerKiel @SQ8 @Bilal. @araz

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## Raider 21

GriffinsRule said:


> Maybe because it's February, but I heard this song come up and I couldn't help think it was written for PAF as a response to the poor Indians getting slapped on both cheeks (Mig and Su style) in broad daylight and then their trolls asking us to prove we slapped them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe someone will use it in their next video 😄 @Trailer23
> 
> What do you guys think? Lyrics seem to just fit no? @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @PanzerKiel @SQ8 @Bilal. @araz


They used this song in a video when No. 9 squadron escorted MBS's A350 into Pakistan

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## Bleek

GriffinsRule said:


> Maybe because it's February, but I heard this song come up and I couldn't help think it was written for PAF as a response to the poor Indians getting slapped on both cheeks (Mig and Su style) in broad daylight and then their trolls asking us to prove we slapped them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe someone will use it in their next video 😄 @Trailer23


Spyder SAM operators when they realised they just shot down and killed over 7 of their own men

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## Bleek

Turingsage said:


>


This was literally posted two pages before


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## Trailer23

Raider 21 said:


> They used this song in a video when No. 9 squadron escorted MBS's A350 into Pakistan


I know this song was used in the video with Gp Capt. Yasir flying solo over Sarghoda prior to some event (Practice). 

But I don't recall MBS coming to Pakistan & getting an escort by No. 9 (Griffins). 

If memory serves, it was a JF-17 escort & MBS's private plane was a BBJ version of the B777 (Dreamliner).

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## Raider 21

Trailer23 said:


> I know this song was used in the video with Gp Capt. Yasir flying solo over Sarghoda prior to some event (Practice).
> 
> But I don't recall MBS coming to Pakistan & getting an escort by No. 9 (Griffins).
> 
> If memory serves, it was a JF-17 escort & MBS's private plane was a BBJ version of the B777 (Dreamliner).
> 
> View attachment 814710​


MBS (in an A350 at the time) was escorted later at night time by No 9 Vipers. I have seen the video on an unlisted link.

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## PanzerKiel

I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.

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## Akatosh

PanzerKiel said:


> I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.


Firstly it's called Awantipora and as the entire base there is surrounded by ghettos and slums (Toknu, Badriwan and Tenga pora), thus any crash there and resultant smoke and fire would have seen many images and videos get out, just like Budgam Mi-17 crash.


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## PanzerKiel

Akatosh said:


> Firstly it's called Awantipora and as the entire base there is surrounded by ghettos and slums, any crash there and resultant smoke and fire would have seen many images and videos get out, just like Budgam Mi-17 crash.


On our maps, it's Awantipur.... Never mind though.

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## Akatosh

PanzerKiel said:


> On our maps, it's Awantipur.... Never mind though.


Of course I would not mind as the image you saw is wrong.


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## Ghessan

PanzerKiel said:


> On our maps, it's Awantipur.... Never mind though.



avantipura or otherwise ...

SU 30 is a SU 30

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## TopGun786

PanzerKiel said:


> I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.


Can you share that image here?



Akatosh said:


> Firstly it's called Awantipora and as the entire base there is surrounded by ghettos and slums (Toknu, Badriwan and Tenga pora), thus any crash there and resultant smoke and fire would have seen many images and videos get out, just like Budgam Mi-17 crash.


AMRAAM dodger 🤣🤣🤣

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## Trailer23

Akatosh said:


> Firstly it's called Awantipora and as the entire base there is surrounded by ghettos and slums (Toknu, Badriwan and Tenga pora), thus any crash there and resultant smoke and fire would have seen many images and videos get out, just like Budgam Mi-17 crash.


First, no one here gives a sh!t what City is called.

Second, aren't all Runways in India surrounded by Ghettos & Slums?

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## HRK

> Contradict him and he will threaten you with a teacup


well only the twisted Indian psyche can claim an "*Invitation* for Tea as Threat to them"

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## The Eagle

We are going to make someone high on blood pressure. Coming soon....



HRK said:


> well only the twisted Indian psyche can claim an "*Invitation* for Tea as Threat to them"



The guy already know that image is wrong. Validating the Vir Chakra & AMRAAM Dodger concept.

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## .King.

Trailer23 said:


> First, no one here gives a sh!t what City is called.
> 
> Second, aren't all Runways in India surrounded by Ghettos & Slums?


yea, even the poster did not mind. It was just a correction for accuracy.

How many military runways have you seen in India, may I ask? Would be great to learn of your travels 😀.



The Eagle said:


> We are going to make someone high on blood pressure. Coming soon....


Any new development?


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## Trailer23

Raider 21 said:


> MBS (in an A350 at the time) was escorted later at night time by No 9 Vipers. I have seen the video on an unlisted link.


Saudia doesn't operate any A350's & are still considering their options for B777x or the a350 (later this year).

I'm sure he was escorted by No. 9 (Griffins), but it was most certainly the Dreamliner.

The Saudi Royal Family only fly BBJ versions of Saudia & they don't have a single a350 (yet).

Infact, i'm pretty certain there isn't a single a350 Registered (*HZ*) in Saudi Arabia.


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## Riz

This 27 feb is going to be very hard for IAF and Modi

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## Goritoes

PanzerKiel said:


> I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.


Is it possible that you can share the Picture ?

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## The Eagle

.King. said:


> Any new development?



Let the higher ups decide whether to tell it or not.



Riz said:


> This 27 feb is going to be very hard for IAF and Modi



There are higher chances of some stunt by Modi again for election only. Sane voices are calling him mad already.

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## Trailer23

.King. said:


> How many military runways have you seen in India, may I ask? Would be great to learn of your travels 😀.


I've seen plenty Military Runways - and i'm talking all of them in Afghanistan & Iraq. The guys here know that. So that covers my 'Travels', son.

As for the ones in your Country, I wouldn't go near one with a 6-foot pole. Lord knows what kind of diseases one might get near those ghettos/slums.

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## Riz

reason of rahul gandhi called modi Surrendermodi in the parliament

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## Raider 21

Trailer23 said:


> Saudia doesn't operate any A350's & are still considering their options for B777x or the a350 (later this year).
> 
> I'm sure he was escorted by No. 9 (Griffins), but it was most certainly the Dreamliner.
> 
> The Saudi Royal Family only fly BBJ versions of Saudia & they don't have a single a350 (yet).
> 
> Infact, i'm pretty certain there isn't a single a350 Registered (*HZ*) in Saudi Arabia.


Probably that might be the case as the video was shot at night time. The No. 9 Viper guys were told A350, 4 of them almost crashed at Sargodha later while recovering. Either a Dreamliner or a version of BBJ.

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## JamD

PanzerKiel said:


> I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.


FYI Google Earth has imagery of that runway dated 27 Feb 2019 and I am unable to spot anything out of the ordinary. However, we don't know the time (actually looks like noon but could be earlier).

Perhaps you can take a look and point something out given that Google Earth is open source.

EDIT: Actually, it's only one end of that airstrip in that image.

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## NA71

Akatosh said:


> Of course I would not mind as the image you saw is wrong.


hahaha you guys are so persistent .... yes that was WC Shahaz-ud-Din flying on that day......

if such video exits...it will be soon available for all. 27/2 is around the corner.

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## Trailer23

Raider 21 said:


> Probably that might be the case as the video was shot at night time. The No. 9 Viper guys were told A350, 4 of them almost crashed at Sargodha later while recovering. Either a Dreamliner or a version of BBJ.


Yeah, there were 2 JF-Thunders accompanying the Griffins too.

Not sure who the rocket scientist it was who gave the wrong type of a/c.

Saudi Govt' currently have 3 Dreamliner BBJ variants - among others.

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## Raider 21

Trailer23 said:


> Yeah, there were 2 JF-Thunders accompanying the Griffins too.
> 
> Not sure who the rocket scientist it was who gave the wrong type of a/c.
> 
> Saudi Govt' currently have 3 Dreamliner BBJ variants - among others.


Told by a few 9ers Viper drivers, the knuckleheads are far from being rocket scientists(I'm one myself) . Negative, no Thunders recovered with them, it was 4-ship Vipers.

Video was very well taken though. Had a NVG component to it too


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## Trailer23

Raider 21 said:


> Told by a few 9ers Viper drivers, the knuckleheads are far from being rocket scientists(I'm one myself) . Negative, no Thunders recovered with them, it was 4-ship Vipers.
> 
> Video was very well taken though. Had a NVG component to it too


Well this info came from a certain Griffins Viper Driver who's in cockpit vid is very popular on YouTube.


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## Raider 21

Trailer23 said:


> Well this info came from a certain Griffins Viper Driver who's in cockpit vid is very popular on YouTube.


PM. It may very well have been the aircraft you mentioned. But their briefing had it as A350.

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## siegecrossbow

People in China wants to know if this is official badge.

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## alikazmi007

siegecrossbow said:


> People in China wants to know if this is official badge.
> 
> View attachment 816520


it should be.

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## Bossman

Akatosh said:


> Firstly it's called Awantipora and as the entire base there is surrounded by ghettos and slums (Toknu, Badriwan and Tenga pora), thus any crash there and resultant smoke and fire would have seen many images and videos get out, just like Budgam Mi-17 crash.



You are wrong. The air base is Avantipur and it is not surrounded by slums. Not crashes result in fire especially it the aircraft is low on fuel, which is usually the case after a mission.


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## Samar111

Why no mention of the F-16 we shot down?

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## Bossman

JamD said:


> FYI Google Earth has imagery of that runway dated 27 Feb 2019 and I am unable to spot anything out of the ordinary. However, we don't know the time (actually looks like noon but could be earlier).
> 
> Perhaps you can take a look and point something out given that Google Earth is open source.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, it's only one end of that airstrip in that image.



Google Earth is not updated daily


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## siegecrossbow

Samar111 said:


> Why no mention of the F-16 we shot down?



With what?

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## alikazmi007

Samar111 said:


> Why no mention of the F-16 we shot down?


In simple words, there wasn't any ... it was all due to the hyper-imagination of Modi Sarkar so he can create his own narrative to win the elections, turn the Zero into a Hero, stoke the hyper-nationalism to get more time in the seat for his butt!

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## Zarvan

PanzerKiel said:


> I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.


So pilots survived ?


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## PakFactor

siegecrossbow said:


> With what?



Hopes and dream lol

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## JamD

Bossman said:


> Google Earth is not updated daily


I know. That date happens to be one of the imagery dates is what I was pointing out. You can check yourself.


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## maverick1977

siegecrossbow said:


> With what?



they dont have to pay for wishful thinking...


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## Bossman

There seems to be some “dal me kala” at Avantipur on 27/28 of Feb. 2019. Updates to Google Earth are random and a lot of times Google Earth uses commercial purchases of satellite pictures for its updates. Someone was curious enough about the North West end of the Runway at Avantipur between the 27th and 28th of February 2019 to have paid for an update as the Google Earth used that image for its update. The previous image was from Oct. 2018. However, there is nothing unusual in the image that is obvious.


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## Pakistan Space Agency

Bossman said:


> There seems to be some “dal me kala” at Avantipur on 27/28 of Feb. 2019. Updates to Google Earth are random and a lot of times Google Earth uses commercial purchases of satellite pictures for its updates. Someone was curious enough about the North West end of the Runway at Avantipur between the 27th and 28th of February 2019 to have paid for an update as the Google Earth used that image for its update. The update was after a long time. However, there is nothing unusual in the image.


Which bit do you mean?

Co-ordinates for the Awantiporta runway.
33.8779749, 74.9794136


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## Pakistan Space Agency

Proximity to LoC, Free Kashmir.


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## Bossman

JamD said:


> I know. That date happens to be one of the imagery dates is what I was pointing out. You can check yourself.



See my post above. It is not a coincidence that someone paid for an update on the 28th of February. The truth has started to come out.



Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Which bit do you mean?
> 
> Co-ordinates for the Awantiporta runaway.
> 33.8779749, 74.9794136
> 
> View attachment 816570



I was referring to the fact that someone paid for update of the North Western area of the runway on Feb. 28, 2019 but it also covers a larger area that also touches around Srinagar.

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Samar111 said:


> Why no mention of the F-16 we shot down?


Why don't you contact Lockheed Martin, Indian Office for the details and share them here.

Lockheed Martin India Pvt Ltd
The Grand Plaza, The Grand Hotel
Nelson Mandela Road, Vasant Kunj,
Phase - II
New Delhi 110070









Lockheed Martin has a new office






www.spsmai.com













For India, From India


Lockheed Martin is committed to strengthening and expanding our relationship with India.




www.lockheedmartin.com

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## Fioril

What is that weird White flare on one of the buildings/quarters


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## Riz

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Why don't you contact Lockheed Martin, Indian Office for the details and share them here.
> 
> Lockheed Martin India Pvt Ltd
> The Grand Plaza, The Grand Hotel
> Nelson Mandela Road, Vasant Kunj,
> Phase - II
> New Delhi 110070
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed Martin has a new office
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spsmai.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For India, From India
> 
> 
> Lockheed Martin is committed to strengthening and expanding our relationship with India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lockheedmartin.com


Ummmricans dont wanttt to reveallll thaaat there most combat provvvven bird F-16 shooot down by a 70 era mig-21 , Shooo mahraaj itttt willll effects the F-16 sale off lockheed martin …..  Indian sanghis on social media
These stupids don’t know in 2018 isreali F-16 shot down over syria , and lockheed martin still gets huge orders of f-16 all around the world

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## Talon

Zarvan said:


> So pilots survived ?


Masoomana sawal : 

You have intel about Pak Military's accquisitions for the next 20 years but your sources haven't told you about Su-30s fate? 

Please kuch humen bhe btayeee

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## HRK

Hodor said:


> Masoomana sawal :
> 
> You have intel about Pak Military's accquisitions for the next 20 years but your sources haven't told you about Su-30s fate?
> 
> Please kuch humen bhe btayeee


this is one of the few posts which actually confused my about the reaction I should post ..... I literally laughed my heart out on this comment/post and also loved it so much.

Kya moqu mahal dek ker comment kiya hai bhai aap na .....

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## Zarf

"70's era Mig", is an excuse by the Indians which even most Pakistanis fall victim to.
First, Indians are flying one of the most advanced, upgraded version of Migs. Correct me if I am wrong.
second, F-16's were introduced in the late 70's. So they belongs to the era of 70's too.
Third, Nobody asked them to send the Migs towards the LOC. It was their decision.

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## jk007

PanzerKiel said:


> I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.



Great....finally, you cracked the puzzle (after nearly 2 years??) with irrefutable proof (i.e photogrph) . Hope yourself & other pakistanis will rest now and not spend any more time on this.

In another 10 years, the truth will come out. Just like as it did in kargill.

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## Primus

jk007 said:


> Great....finally, you cracked the puzzle (after nearly 2 years??) with irrefutable proof (i.e photogrph) . Hope yourself & other pakistanis will rest now and not spend any more time on this.
> 
> In another 10 years, the truth will come out. Just like as it did in kargill.


Its been more than 20 years and the truth regarding Kargil casualties suffered in the IA still hasnt come out. Will they ever get the respect they deserve? You cry so much for our troops whilst forgetting your own

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## ProudPak

Zarf said:


> "70's era Mig", is an excuse by the Indians which even most Pakistanis fall victim to.
> First, Indians are flying one of the most advanced, upgraded version of Migs. Correct me if I am wrong.
> second, F-16's were introduced in the late 70's. So they belongs to the era of 70's too.
> Third, Nobody asked them to send the Migs towards the LOC. It was their decision.


Why flybthe migs if they cannot defend your airspace. This is in IAF issue not a PAF issue.

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## Bossman

jk007 said:


> Great....finally, you cracked the puzzle (after nearly 2 years??) with irrefutable proof (i.e photogrph) . Hope yourself & other pakistanis will rest now and not spend any more time on this.
> 
> In another 10 years, the truth will come out. Just like as it did in kargill.



Yes the truth finally came out. Pakistan is still sitting on Indian peaks.

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## K_Bin_W

Bossman said:


> Yes the truth finally came out. Pakistan is still sitting on Indian peaks.


Indians are taught a very different kind of history... Nothing you can do.

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## Jinn Baba

jk007 said:


> In another 10 years, the truth will come out. Just like as it did in kargill.



Funny you mention Kargil - it was two IAF fighters down and an Indian pilot captured then too.

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## Zarvan

Hodor said:


> Masoomana sawal :
> 
> You have intel about Pak Military's accquisitions for the next 20 years but your sources haven't told you about Su-30s fate?
> 
> Please kuch humen bhe btayeee


Our own Air Force took really time to reach the conclusion on what the hell happened to SU 30. It took really long time to get this news. And trust me talks about weapon systems are not that difficult to find out.


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## ziaulislam

Zarf said:


> "70's era Mig", is an excuse by the Indians which even most Pakistanis fall victim to.
> First, Indians are flying one of the most advanced, upgraded version of Migs. Correct me if I am wrong.
> second, F-16's were introduced in the late 70's. So they belongs to the era of 70's too.
> Third, Nobody asked them to send the Migs towards the LOC. It was their decision.


The mig21 is as good as f 16
This was proven because it shot f16 with ita front gun)since all missles were intact

Or by scaring the pilot who bailed out once he saw the mig21

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## Irfan Baloch

ziaulislam said:


> The mig21 is as good as f 16
> This was proven because it shot f16 with ita front gun)since all missles were intact
> 
> Or by scaring the pilot who bailed out once he saw the mig21


if that Mig was so awesome God of war then why did India buy Rafales? its a question that even Christine Fair even mockingly asked the Indians.

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## ziaulislam

Irfan Baloch said:


> if that Mig was so awesome God of war then why did India buy Rafales? its a question that even Christine Fair even mockingly asked the Indians.


"Rafales are for chinese j20 they arent for pakistan"

"Reason why they are positioned near pakistan is to give china a message"

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## Aesterix

PanzerKiel said:


> I just came across an image. That Su 30 crashed just short of runway at Awantipur, that AMRAAM had badly damaged its elevators due to its proximity fuse. The pilots managed to bring the damaged aircraft, were trying to make it land, but it crashed short of runway. Pilots punched out at the last moment.


No the pilots didn't survive. Got killed in the same city, in another way .









Pulwama: 2 IAF personnel killed in road 'accident' outside Awantipora base | India News - Times of India


India News: "Four IAF personnel met an accident this morning at Malngpora in Awantipora. Two of the injured personnel succumbed to injuries," the official said, w




timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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## PanzerKiel

jk007 said:


> Great....finally, you cracked the puzzle (after nearly 2 years??) with irrefutable proof (i.e photogrph) . Hope yourself & other pakistanis will rest now and not spend any more time on this.
> 
> In another 10 years, the truth will come out. Just like as it did in kargill.


Not exactly dear. The puzzle was cracked the very next day in 2019. However, seems like you take PDF as something official or government level thing.

You guys always underestimate us. Otherwise, you still see it as NOT a coincidence that you bomb on 26, we bomb your HQ the very next day... A mission which was planned in hours, and then *coincidentally *your high brass is also found sitting there (as though they were invited by us to witness our bombing first hand).... You don't call it coincidence, there is another term to it.

We were resting before 2019, and we are still resting. One odd time a Mig 21 or Su 30 comes to visit us, and we oblige them... Otherwise it's peace on our side.

Whatever truth we wanted, it's there. Let's hope that not even in 10, maybe 50 years later, you are told by then retired Abhinandan that he didn't shoot anyF16.



Huffal said:


> Its been more than 20 years and the truth regarding Kargil casualties suffered in the IA still hasnt come out. Will they ever get the respect they deserve? You cry so much for our troops whilst forgetting your own


I wonder how much respect those army's 3000 IPKF Indians casualties in Sri Lanka get in India... I mean they were killed by LTTE who were trained by indian RAW. Funny...indian army fighting indian proxies...



Jinn Baba said:


> Funny you mention Kargil - it was two IAF fighters down and an Indian pilot captured then too.


Bad of us we didn't offer him tea then. We were not media savvy then.



Zarvan said:


> Our own Air Force took really time to reach the conclusion on what the hell happened to SU 30.


It took them just days.



Aesterix said:


> No the pilots didn't survive. Got killed in the same city, in another way .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pulwama: 2 IAF personnel killed in road 'accident' outside Awantipora base | India News - Times of India
> 
> 
> India News: "Four IAF personnel met an accident this morning at Malngpora in Awantipora. Two of the injured personnel succumbed to injuries," the official said, w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> timesofindia.indiatimes.com


No loose ends.

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## jk007

PanzerKiel said:


> Not exactly dear. The puzzle was cracked the very next day in 2019. However, seems like you take PDF as something official or government level thing.
> 
> You guys always underestimate us. Otherwise, you still see it as NOT a coincidence that you bomb on 26, we bomb your HQ the very next day... A mission which was planned in hours, and then *coincidentally *your high brass is also found sitting there (as though they were invited by is to witness our bombing first hand).... You don't call it coincidence, there is another term to it.
> 
> We were resting before 2019, and we are still resting. One odd time a Mig 21 or Su 30 comes to visit us, and we oblige them... Otherwise it's peace on our side.


Ok. Now, please let this rest. It has been two years now. 

Pak always won against India every singletime. Now, let it rest there please.


----------



## PanzerKiel

jk007 said:


> Ok. Now, please let this rest. It has been two years now.
> 
> Pak always won against India every singletime. Now, let it rest there please.













jk007 said:


> Ok. Now, please let this rest. It has been two years now.
> 
> Pak always won against India every singletime. Now, let it rest there please.


and dont worry dear...we will not let it rest....mehmaan nawaazi hum per khatam hai.....why should we rest on our achievements....this thread will remain evergreen.....if you want rest, open up a new thread for rest lovers....here you will find all of us as young fire-pissers, nothing else.

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## Goritoes

Hodor said:


> Masoomana sawal :
> 
> You have intel about Pak Military's accquisitions for the next 20 years but your sources haven't told you about Su-30s fate?
> 
> Please kuch humen bhe btayeee

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## Riz

jk007 said:


> Ok. Now, please let this rest. It has been two years now.
> 
> Pak always won against India every singletime. Now, let it rest there please.


No one could defeat india until today. Hindus of india are super humans, hindus are oldest religion on this earth , atomic bomb is the innovation of mahbarhata 10000 years ago, india won all wars with china and Pakistan, on 26 feb IAF 80km inside Pakistan airspace and killed 350 terrorists with 60km long ranged spice mijjiles, Spice mijjiles damage cant be seen with naked eyes because india used modi stinky fart inside payload that killed 350 terrorists with smell  on 27 feb panicked Pakistan used 60 jets to attack india and IAF makes them run with 6 jets , PAF dropped all bombed inside its own side , SU-30 mki dodged 5 AMRAAMS , one of them found with in two hours rest flys towards bangladesh  Abhinanadan before getting shot down PAF by a F-16 actually shot downs that F-16 , Pak shown fake BVRs to international military observers ( keunky woh sary hutiay thay ) , Pak people killed there own pilots considering them as sikh because of long beards while leave abhinanadan because of his mustaches matches with Pakistanis ( BCdoo yahan aisi mochain ksi ki nhi ) , Pak bought a dummy f-16 from ebay for the final count by US military persons, US is aware off the shot down of pak f-16 butdont wana reveals because it will effect the sale of f-16s , PM imran khan and bajwa legs were shaking when modi announced to fire might brahamus on Pakistan 
Aor kia kia tha bhai ksi ko yaad ha ?

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## Talon

Goritoes said:


> View attachment 816753


HAHAHAHA..!!!


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## Akatosh

jk007 said:


> Great....finally, you cracked the puzzle (after nearly 2 years??) with irrefutable proof (i.e photogrph) . Hope yourself & other pakistanis will rest now and not spend any more time on this.
> 
> In another 10 years, the truth will come out. Just like as it did in kargill.


Meh.
It's obvious he or anyone else do not have any such pic.
otherwise that pic would have become public long long time back.

Anyways his theory got debunked as google earth itself updated images on that morning and it shows absolutely nothing unusual at Awantipora.



Bossman said:


> You are wrong. The air base is Avantipur and it is not surrounded by slums. Not crashes result in fire especially it the aircraft is low on fuel, which is usually the case after a mission.


Lol. 
I have visited Awantipora multiple times and the base is completely surrounded by ghettos.

And there is no such thing as no fire after a 12 tonne behemoth crashes.
This is not a tiny Robinson chopper.



Aesterix said:


> No the pilots didn't survive. Got killed in the same city, in another way .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pulwama: 2 IAF personnel killed in road 'accident' outside Awantipora base | India News - Times of India
> 
> 
> India News: "Four IAF personnel met an accident this morning at Malngpora in Awantipora. Two of the injured personnel succumbed to injuries," the official said, w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> timesofindia.indiatimes.com


Lol.
One of the dead was low ranked corporal (not even a officer) which means he could have been a pilot or co pilot of a Sukhoi.

The other one was a ground duty officer of admin branch

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## Windjammer

Akatosh said:


> Meh.
> It's obvious he or anyone else do not have any such pic.
> otherwise that pic would have become public long long time back.
> 
> Anyways his theory got debunked as google earth itself updated images on that morning and it shows absolutely nothing unusual at Awantipora.
> 
> 
> Lol.
> I have visited Awantipora multiple times and the base is completely surrounded by ghettos.
> 
> And there is no such thing as no fire after a 12 tonne behemoth crashes.
> This is not a tiny Robinson chopper.


And if you have indeed visited the area / Station then kindly point out the ghettos that surround this facility ....also NO, every crash regardless of the size of the aircraft doesn't always end up in a fire ball.

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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> And if you have indeed visited the area / Station then kindly point out the ghettos that surround this facility ....also NO, every crash regardless of the size of the aircraft doesn't always end up in a fire ball.
> 
> 
> View attachment 816773
> 
> 
> View attachment 816774
> 
> 
> View attachment 816775



He was allowed only to visit Ghettos let alone going near the air base.

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## Akatosh

Windjammer said:


> And if you have indeed visited the area / Station then kindly point out the ghettos that surround this facility ....also NO, every crash regardless of the size of the aircraft doesn't always end up in a fire ball.
> 
> 
> View attachment 816773
> 
> 
> View attachment 816774
> 
> 
> View attachment 816775


This one was not a crash but rather a faulty flight control system that caused aircraft to auto landing in field.

Also in your image of base one can spot multiple ghettos like Badriwan, Teknu etc.

Anyways Google earth pics dated 27 Feb itself show there is no wreckage at base.

All that @PanzerKiel has to do to prove his claim (for which he has so far failed to provide an iota of evidence), is post the pic or atleast a part of it.


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## The Eagle

Akatosh said:


> post the pic



Chinese captured by Indians?

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## TopGun786

Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. | Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30 MKI being shot by PAF? Eyewitness from Indian side of LoC... | By Pakistan D


65K views, 2.5K likes, 262 loves, 160 comments, 823 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Pakistan Defence: Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30...




www.facebook.com




Posting it again to refresh memory of Bhakhts

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## TsAr

jk007 said:


> In another 10 years, the truth will come out. Just like as it did in kargill.


Are you talking about the coffin scandal

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## PanzerKiel

Akatosh said:


> All that @PanzerKiel has to do to prove his claim (for which he has so far failed to provide an iota of evidence), is post the pic or atleast a part of it.


Like you say, I'll post part of the image. Of course I can say with some foresight that you won't stop at this, even though you said that you'll be fine if I post part of it.

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## Primus

PanzerKiel said:


> Like you say, I'll post part of the image. Of course I can say with some foresight that you won't stop at this, even though you said that you'll be fine if I post part of it.
> 
> Ok i have deleted it. Lets not oblige Akatosh. It was this sort of a thing which destroyed Abhinandan and allowed Akatosh to earn his signature.


NOOOOOO i was gonna screenshot it to send to my brothers

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## Windjammer

PanzerKiel said:


> Like you say, I'll post part of the image. Of course I can say with some foresight that you won't stop at this, even though you said that you'll be fine if I post part of it.
> 
> Ok i have deleted it. Lets not oblige Akatosh. It was this sort of a thing which destroyed Abhinandan and allowed Akatosh to earn his signature.


Knowing his mindset, he would probably come back with, SU-30 is twin engine where as your image only shows a single engine.

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## Vortex

PanzerKiel said:


> Like you say, I'll post part of the image. Of course I can say with some foresight that you won't stop at this, even though you said that you'll be fine if I post part of it.
> 
> Ok i have deleted it. Lets not oblige Akatosh. It was this sort of a thing which destroyed Abhinandan and allowed Akatosh to earn his signature.



I missed it 😕


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## PanzerKiel

Windjammer said:


> Knowing his mindset, he would probably come back with, SU-30 is twin engine where as your image only shows a single engine.


However, to a sharp eye, the engine and the body is unmistakably of a Su-30.



PanzerKiel said:


> However, to a sharp eye, the engine and the body is unmistakably of a Su-30.


@Windjammer the real complaint from him would be, why not a picture of the flag, of the surroundings, is it really India? no blue IAF uniforms visible around....lets leave it.

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## Akatosh

PanzerKiel said:


> Like you say, I'll post part of the image. Of course I can say with some foresight that you won't stop at this, even though you said that you'll be fine if I post part of it.
> 
> Ok i have deleted it. Lets not oblige Akatosh. It was this sort of a thing which destroyed Abhinandan and allowed Akatosh to earn his signature.


Adorable.
So you deleted the image before I could view it, lest I debunk it.


----------



## PanzerKiel

Akatosh said:


> Adorable.
> So you deleted the image before I could view it, lest I debunk it.


Who stops you from debunking a simple image, even though you guys have tried debunking everything related to February 2019. You guys didnt even accept that Mig-21 was actually shot down....all those news are there on youtube...Mig 21 was not shot down, then it crashed due to a technical error....and what not....so let it remain there. 

Some members were quick enough to download that image which i pasted here. However, no worries for you. We do not require your debunking. No one is asking you to do it. Be our guest here as always....like Nachiketa and Abhinandan, along with host of others have been.



Akatosh said:


> Adorable.
> So you deleted the image before I could view it, lest I debunk it.


Use RAW sources to get it from the PAF secret archives. Then debunk as much as you want.

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## Akatosh

Akatosh said:


> Adorable.
> So you deleted the image before I could view it, lest I debunk it.





PanzerKiel said:


> Who stops you from debunking a simple image, even though you guys have tried debunking everything related to February 2019. You guys didnt even accept that Mig-21 was actually shot down....all those news are there on youtube...Mig 21 was not shot down, then it crashed due to a technical error....and what not....so let it remain there.
> 
> Some members were quick enough to download that image which i pasted here. However, no worries for you. We do not require your debunking. No one is asking you to do it. Be our guest here as always....like Nachiketa and Abhinandan, along with host of others have been.


Who told that we did not accept Mig 21 down?
The report of no Mig 21 shot was just a story by private news agency quoting anonymous sources.
No official ever stated that no Mig 21 went down.

Anyways let's hope somebody downloaded that image.
I would love to debunk it.


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## SIPRA

PanzerKiel said:


> Who stops you from debunking a simple image, even though you guys have tried debunking everything related to February 2019. You guys didnt even accept that Mig-21 was actually shot down....all those news are there on youtube...Mig 21 was not shot down, then it crashed due to a technical error....and what not....so let it remain there.
> 
> Some members were quick enough to download that image which i pasted here. However, no worries for you. We do not require your debunking. No one is asking you to do it. Be our guest here as always....like Nachiketa and Abhinandan, along with host of others have been.
> 
> 
> Use RAW sources to get it from the PAF secret archives. Then debunk as much as you want.



I think that India shall be renamed as "*Debunkindia*". Ab yeh "*debunk*" he kartay rahain gay; kabhi Feb 2019 ko, aur kabhi Galwan Clash ko.

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## Scorpio_26

Huffal said:


> NOOOOOO i was gonna screenshot it to send to my brothers



I saved it in time

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## Windjammer

@PanzerKiel 
The best or rather the worst explanation put up for the MiG-21 was, it malfunctioned over India and the pilot ejected but his parachute drifted into Pakistan.... Maybe they should have added that his several ton heart broken MiG also decided to follow him.

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## Princeps Senatus

Scorpio_26 said:


> I saved it in time


👀

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## SIPRA

Scorpio_26 said:


> I saved it in time



So, re-post it.



Windjammer said:


> .... Maybe they should have added that his several ton heart broken MiG also decided to follow him.



There was an intense hurricane, which also carried the MIG to AJK.

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## Scorpio_26

Princeps Senatus said:


> 👀



Bro let's hope PAF or some senior members here post that full pic or at least provide some new evidence for that Su30 kill on coming 27 Feb. That will be too good.

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## PanzerKiel

SIPRA said:


> So, re-post it.


No reposting please. If aim is to assuage others' hunger, post new ones or fake ones, but not the original one.

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## Scorpio_26

SIPRA said:


> So, re-post it.



Sir @PanzerKiel ki ijazat darkaar ha huzoor.

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## SIPRA

PanzerKiel said:


> No reposting please. If aim is to assuage others' hunger, post new ones or fake ones, but not the original one.



Sir Jee: Saanu tay vikha deyo. 



Scorpio_26 said:


> Sir @PanzerKiel ki ijazat darkaar ha huzoor.



Woh tau ijaazat naheen day rahay.  

But, it hardly matters. I have full confidence in our armed forces. They have lived to their pledge, since 1947. So, no worries.

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## Princeps Senatus

PanzerKiel said:


> No reposting please. If aim is to assuage others' hunger, post new ones or fake ones, but not the original one.


sir jee edging to na karain

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## ummarz

Akatosh said:


> Adorable.
> So you deleted the image before I could view it, lest I debunk it.


Your agenda is amply clear when you are looking to debunk before even knowing the data. You are not here to learn..

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## SIPRA

ummarz said:


> Your agenda is amply clear when you are looking to debunk before even knowing the data. You are not here to learn..



"Hindutvadis" have nothing to learn. They are on the Zenith of knowledge, since thousands of years.

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## akramishaqkhan

Why do we engage with Indians. Let them live in a world of make belief and unicorns. Let them come into the battlefield unprepared, and let the results there define the reality.

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## Raja Porus

Scorpio_26 said:


> I saved it in time









PanzerKiel said:


> Like you say, I'll post part of the image. Of course I can say with some foresight that you won't stop at this, even though you said that you'll be fine if I post part of it.
> 
> Ok i have deleted it. Lets not oblige Akatosh. It was this sort of a thing which destroyed Abhinandan and allowed Akatosh to earn his signature.


Naughty Naughty

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## SIPRA

akramishaqkhan said:


> Why do we engage with Indians.



For entertainment.

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## Thorough Pro

Can you please email it to me? I won't share with anyone.



PanzerKiel said:


> No reposting please. If aim is to assuage others' hunger, post new ones or fake ones, but not the original one.



with "lies and deceit" 



PakFactor said:


> Hopes and dream lol

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## siegecrossbow

akramishaqkhan said:


> Why do we engage with Indians. Let me live in a world of make belief and unicorns. Let them come into the battlefield unprepared, and let the results there define the reality.



If they enjoy make belief so much they should stick to watching Mr. Rogers and leave aerial combat to the professionals.


----------



## Talon

PanzerKiel said:


> No reposting please. If aim is to assuage others' hunger, post new ones or fake ones, but not the original one.


I missed it as well :'(

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## ummarz

The reason @PanzerKiel posted that cropped picture wasn't to prove the Su-30 claim, but rather to prove that some Indians are so blinded that they would even deny reality even if its in front of them. Let's leave it behind. The objective was achieved and point proven.

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## TopGun786

Hodor said:


> I missed it as well :'(


Me too 😢

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## Raider 21

Zarvan said:


> Our own Air Force took really time to reach the conclusion on what the hell happened to SU 30. It took really long time to get this news. And trust me talks about weapon systems are not that difficult to find out.


Negative. This info was conveyed by the senior leadership of the air force to some retirees, who thank goodness stayed silent as per being asked to do so. They were told that the Su-30MKI aircrew tried to recover to an airfield but crashed short of the runway. Pilots were assumed to have ejected and survived.

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## TopGun786

6-


TopGun786 said:


> Me too 😢


Can you send me that picture in private? I will not share it without your permission.

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## ummarz

Raider 21 said:


> Negative. This info was conveyed by the senior leadership of the air force to some retirees, who thank goodness stayed silent as per being asked to do so. They were told that the Su-30MKI aircrew tried to recover to an airfield but crashed short of the runway. Pilots were assumed to have ejected and survived.


To me this would simply be one of the potential outcomes. What we know for sure so far is that the AIM120 connected, and sent back data to the F-16 confirming that connection. We also have visual confirmation of that in the form of the IAF being good boys and showing us the proof of what we did to them on live TV.


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## ghazi52

Respect the Tea !!
It opens your eyes.......................................................................

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## Raider 21

ummarz said:


> To me this would simply be one of the potential outcomes. What we know for sure so far is that the AIM120 connected, and sent back data to the F-16 confirming that connection. We also have visual confirmation of that in the form of the IAF being good boys and showing us the proof of what we did to them on live TV.


There were at least 12 F-16s viewing everything on their APG-68v9s and not mention some AWACS in the region. They would know better.

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## Princeps Senatus

ummarz said:


> To me this would simply be one of the potential outcomes. What we know for sure so far is that the AIM120 connected, and sent back data to the F-16 confirming that connection. We also have visual confirmation of that in the form of the IAF being good boys and showing us the proof of what we did to them on live TV.


AIM-120C uses a one-way datalink, it cannot send back data to the F-16. That requires a two-way datalink which only AIM-120D, Meteor and PL-15 support. However the kill can be confirmed by the target disappearing from radar. Or Sniper XR pod (within a certain distance).


----------



## ummarz

Princeps Senatus said:


> AIM-120C uses a one-way datalink, it cannot send back data to the F-16. That requires a two-way datalink which only AIM-120D, Meteor and PL-15 support. However the kill can be confirmed by the target disappearing from radar. Or Sniper XR pod (within a certain distance).


Cool info man. If you watch the interview towards the end the air commodore explains that there is a data exchange that was happening between the missile and the plane and it suggests a kill... idk

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## ummarz

Raider 21 said:


> There were at least 12 F-16s viewing everything on their APG-68v9s and not mention some AWACS in the region. They would know better.


True, if anyone knows its them after the IAF. Keeping in mind that radars are not infallible in a mountainous environment. I also don't disagree with your OP. I do however find it a little tiny bit odd that they didn't release that information officially, as there isn't much value to keeping that information hidden. I also feel that if an injured jet made it back to the vicinity of the airport, then the probability would have been on its side when it came to touching down on the runway. Its entirely possible that it is exactly what happened that they crashed in the vicinity of the airbase. I would love it if my curiosity was satiated. What do you think?

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## Raider 21

ummarz said:


> True, if anyone knows its them after the IAF. Keeping in mind that radars are not infallible in a mountainous environment. I also don't disagree with your OP. I do however find it a little tiny bit odd that they didn't release that information officially, as there isn't much value to keeping that information hidden. I also feel that if an injured jet made it back to the vicinity of the airport, then the probability would have been on its side when it came to touching down on the runway. What do you think?


They have their reasons to stay quiet about it on both sides. It is still a claim at the end of the day. Had it even landed back, there would have been no claim and possibly no AMRAAM wreckage shenanigans

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## The Eagle

Akatosh said:


> In that video, eywitness who is in Sher Makdi village is clearly talking about Abhinandan's MiG-21 since his Mig crash site in AJK was just 4 km from our sher makadi village in J&K
> 
> Distance between Sher Makadi & MiG-21 crash site (Latitude: 33° 13' 54.6" North Longitude: 73° 57' 23.4" East) is about 5 km. And as Sher Makadi is just 2 km from LoC any crash smoke/fire there would be visible to Pakistanis just like MiG-21 crash smoke was visible to Indians. Which means Pakistanis would have then posted pics of smoke or fire on Indian side of LoC.
> 
> Also since the MiG-21 crash site was so close to Sher Makadi he though it might have crashed there. We know that Abhinandan MiG-21 came from the direction of Rajauri so his description matches exactly with Abhinandan MiG-21. He says he saw a plane crashing near Sher Makadi which is just 5 km from actual crash site of Abhinandan so he might have though that Abhinandan's falling plane came down in sher makadi.
> 
> Plus he clearly mentions he saw ONE pilot ejecting which matches with Abhinandan MiG 21 description as Sukhois have two pilots
> 
> Most importantly he says he was behind a hill which means he did not have line of sight to crash site (could not directly see it).
> 
> Even prominent western Think tank DFRLab agrees that the MiG-21 was hit when it was moving towards India.
> 
> Also Sher makadi is close to LoC people get injured there when cross Loc mortar shelling was common.



Told you before and am repeating myself here once again. Abhinandan flight path was towards AJK and was shot and come down like a 🦃.

On other hand, an eye witness in IoK being interviewed by Indian news channel, sees an aircraft coming from IoK towards LoC and returns with it's back on fire towards the same place where it came from. So who was coming from and going back towards IoK? MiG was in AJK. Are you really that thick and couldn't get the idea as what's being said. Literally had enough of your trolling and misleading while lying with plain face.

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## GriffinsRule

Is the serial number visible in this picture that was posted?

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## TopGun786

The Eagle said:


> Told you before and am repeating myself here once again. Abhinandan flight path was towards AJK and was shot and come down like a 🦃.
> 
> On other hand, an eye witness in IoK being interviewed by Indian news channel, sees an aircraft coming from IoK towards LoC and returns with it's back on fire towards the same place where it came from. So who was coming from and going back towards IoK? MiG was in AJK. Are you really that thick and couldn't get the idea as what's being said. Literally had enough of your trolling and misleading while lying with plain face.


This Indian guy explains things like he was there and fully aware of the geography. I must say that I am a Kashmiri and I belong to very same district of Azad Kashmir where Abhinandan jet was shot like a duck. The wreckage fell inside our part of land and although it's near LOC but not as near that one cannot realise it fell in Azad Kashmir or Indian occupied Kashmir.
The people talking in video clearly say something which is opposite what happened to Abhinandan. This particular jet mentioned in video was a Su30 and it fell on Indian occupied side. There is no doubt in it.

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## kursed

Windjammer said:


> @PanzerKiel
> The best or rather the worst explanation put up for the MiG-21 was, it malfunctioned over India and the pilot ejected but his parachute drifted into Pakistan.... Maybe they should have added that his several ton heart broken MiG also decided to follow him.


The first report out of India, was the Abhi yelled on the radio; Fox 3 and then got hit himself. This is before everyone was let on that Abhi could not hear crap... and neither could his controller from him. =P Imagine the bs..

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## PanzerKiel



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## PanzerKiel

Ex RAAF Mirage IIIDA, No 15 TA Squadron. H-4 Guidance




Ex RAAF Mirage IIIDA, No 15 TA Squadron





Mirage VPA, No 15 TA Squadron H-4 Launch





F-17 Block 2, No 16 Squadron #BlackPanthers 2× Mk-83 REK Launch





JF-17 Block 2, No 16 MR Squadron 2× Mk-83 REK Launch





F-16AM Block 15 MLU, No 29 MR Squadron #Aggressors (aircraft from 11) Pilot: W/C Nauman Ali Khan AIM-120 AMRAAM launch





F-16BM Block 15 MLU, 29 MR Squadron (aircraft from 11) Pilot: S/L Hassan Saddiqui. AIM-120 AMRAAM launch

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## Talon

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 816995
> 
> Ex RAAF Mirage IIIDA, No 15 TA Squadron. H-4 Guidance
> View attachment 816996
> 
> Ex RAAF Mirage IIIDA, No 15 TA Squadron
> 
> View attachment 816997
> 
> Mirage VPA, No 15 TA Squadron H-4 Launch
> 
> View attachment 816998
> 
> F-17 Block 2, No 16 Squadron #BlackPanthers 2× Mk-83 REK Launch
> 
> View attachment 816999
> 
> JF-17 Block 2, No 16 MR Squadron 2× Mk-83 REK Launch
> 
> View attachment 817000
> 
> F-16AM Block 15 MLU, No 29 MR Squadron #Aggressors (aircraft from 11) Pilot: W/C Nauman Ali Khan AIM-120 AMRAAM launch
> 
> View attachment 817001
> 
> F-16BM Block 15 MLU, 29 MR Squadron (aircraft from 11) Pilot: S/L Hassan Saddiqui. AIM-120 AMRAAM launch


Since you posted a vintage photo of 420

Credits on picture , source Instagram :

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## Windjammer

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 817001
> 
> F-16BM Block 15 MLU, 29 MR Squadron (aircraft from 11) Pilot: S/L Hassan Saddiqui. AIM-120 AMRAAM launch


It's worth remembering that although Hassan Sadiqui ended up getting cautioned for his aggressive actions that day but the detremined warrior after launching his AMRAAM, maintained his course until the missile went Pitbull.

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## Viper27

ghazi52 said:


> Respect the Tea !!
> It opens your eyes.......................................................................
> 
> View attachment 816929



On a side note..anyone who can make chai like this deserves to be treated like Royalty!

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## Jungibaaz

kursed said:


> The first report out of India, was the Abhi yelled on the radio; Fox 3 and then got hit himself. This is before everyone was let on that Abhi could not hear crap... and neither could his controller from him. =P Imagine the bs..


And then add to that, MKI - an aircraft that flies without MAWS, belly-danced its way and dodged out 4-5 AMRAAMs. Truly inspiring stuff.

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## Primus

GriffinsRule said:


> Is the serial number visible in this picture that was posted?


It was a cropped image of the downed su30mki. It just showed the engine of the mki amongst some trees. Or what looked like trees.

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## Yellow13

Could someone please send a link to the MKI picture?

Edit: Apologies, I just saw @PanzerKiel's reasons

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## ummarz

Raider 21 said:


> They have their reasons to stay quiet about it on both sides. It is still a claim at the end of the day. Had it even landed back, there would have been no claim and possibly no AMRAAM wreckage shenanigans


Agreed. I had to think about this for a while. And it does make a lot of sense. That Pakistan wouldn't even make the claim if the Su 30 had managed to land. Pakistan as the defending party doesn't have the luxury to make false claims. We are already outnumbered as is. Can't afford to lose our integrity and be perceived weak and morally corrupt in the eyes of our enemies. These values play a big role in keeping them at bay.

Chances are quite high that the Modi govt. lucked out with the location of the crash of the Su-30. Not extraordinary, as also in 2019 another IAF passenger plane crashed in the hills and could not be found for a week. Me being the skeptic I am would continue to look forward to more information confirming this out of India in the coming decades ahead.

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## ummarz

Huffal said:


> It was a cropped image of the downed su30mki. It just showed the engine of the mki amongst some trees. Or what looked like trees.


I have seen the un cropped picture, there is also part of the wing and power lines visible. All I will say is that I'm glad the picture was removed. Hopefully something like this doesn't happen in the future.

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## Primus

ummarz said:


> I have seen the un cropped picture, there is also the right wing and power lines visible. All I will say is that I'm glad the picture was removed. Hopefully something like this doesn't happen in the future.


What do you mean you are glad this picture was removed?

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## TsAr

Raider 21 said:


> They have their reasons to stay quiet about it on both sides. It is still a claim at the end of the day. Had it even landed back, there would have been no claim and possibly no AMRAAM wreckage shenanigans


few questions rises here

If the SU-30 crashed while trying to land at the airfield then why was the heli flown out of srinagar? 
Most likely the Amraam hit the SU-30 over hilly area and the wreckage of the missile would be found there, if the SU was able to reach back to the airfield, how come was IAF able to find the wrecked AMram so quickly

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## kursed

Jungibaaz said:


> And then add to that, MKI - an aircraft that flies without MAWS, belly-danced its way and dodged out 4-5 AMRAAMs. Truly inspiring stuff.


They’ve still to answer to the fact … as to how did they even manage to locate the AMRAAM fired.. given the terrain unless they exactly knew where it went. 

As for MKI.. From Asian Raptor to Asian Dodger.

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## GriffinsRule

ummarz said:


> I have seen the un cropped picture, there is also part of the wing and power lines visible. All I will say is that I'm glad the picture was removed. Hopefully something like this doesn't happen in the future.


Hopefully it wasn't an image of this crash 


https://resize1.indiatvnews.com/en/resize/newbucket/715_-/2018/06/nashik-20-1530081810.jpg

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## GriffinsRule

Huffal said:


> What do you mean you are glad this picture was removed?


Probably means the picture was of a different crash

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## Yellow13

Scorpio_26 said:


> I saved it in time


Could you please DM it to me?

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## Pak Nationalist

Yellow13 said:


> Could you please DM it to me?


Me too



Scorpio_26 said:


> I saved it in time


lucky bugger

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## Bossman

TsAr said:


> few questions rises here
> 
> If the SU-30 crashed while trying to land at the airfield then why was the heli flown out of srinagar?
> Most likely the Amraam hit the SU-30 over hilly area and the wreckage of the missile would be found there, if the SU was able to reach back to the airfield, how come was IAF able to find the wrecked AMram so quickly



Srinagar is only 10 miles away from Avantipur. Most probably choppers were scrambled from both the bases. The one from Srinagar got shot down so we heard about it.

There was news from India that a major search was undertaken for AMRAAM wreckage. You can Google it.


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## Path-Finder

T minuj 7 dayj.


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## Talon

Windjammer said:


> He must have changed somewhat as I have his picture receiving a trophy from former ACM Sohail Aman.


Yes, that's the guy. He has a very unique yet odd callsign.

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## Talon

Windjammer said:


> Although i recognised Nauman Ali instantly but I have been told that one of these other pilots currently in Saudi Arab for an exercise is OC N0-5 Squadron, Wing Commander Tariq Waheed who was also in the thick of Swift Retort, he was flying as the wing man to Nauman Ali and squarely had Abhinandan's wing man locked but he bugged out leaving his leader to enjoy his tea alone.
> 
> View attachment 817125
> 
> View attachment 817127
> 
> @Hodor @SQ8 @kursed @PanzerKiel
> 
> Any idea which one is the said officer.


@Trailer23 tmhen yad ho k na yad ho

…..

Interesting..

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## Trailer23

Hodor said:


> @Trailer23 tmhen yad ho k na yad ho
> 
> 
> Interesting..


Yaad hai, bhai.

Done a similar one for a Griffin. And its turned out BEAUTIFUL 😍 .


----------



## TheTallGuy

My wish for 27-Feb-22 is 

PAF declassify AVTR of Wng Cmd. Nauman kill (MiG-21)
PAF declassify Su-30MKIs desprate radio chatter of the engagement and their last call ...hit hit ejecting!

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## Windjammer

Raider 21 said:


> Please delete these posts. Leave the pics, but delete this information. I'll PM the reasons later


Done.

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## ummarz

TsAr said:


> few questions rises here
> 
> If the SU-30 crashed while trying to land at the airfield then why was the heli flown out of srinagar?
> Most likely the Amraam hit the SU-30 over hilly area and the wreckage of the missile would be found there, if the SU was able to reach back to the airfield, how come was IAF able to find the wrecked AMram so quickly


The answer to the first question will explain everything. I wonder if anyone could put together information such as where Abhi crashed, where the heli crashed, and what were the timings, then we could discuss it more. What we know so far for sure is that IAF CAS was launched. It could have been for the SU-30 crash, it could have been for injured SU-30, CAS launched in advance (many nations do this). In a really weird scenario, the CAS could have also been launched for the MIG that they were hoping would make it to IOK. There is also the 4th even weirder option, it was launched in confusion, the confusion could be anything including a mix of the above. There were many holes in their C&C that day.

The second question: the question assumes that the wreckage of AIM should be found near the wreckage of Su30. It doesn't have to, depending on the height and speed with which it hit, would determine its trajectory. Where as jets can in many cases fly on for quite a lengthy time after being hit before crashing.


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## PanzerKiel

GriffinsRule said:


> Hopefully it wasn't an image of this crash
> 
> 
> https://resize1.indiatvnews.com/en/resize/newbucket/715_-/2018/06/nashik-20-1530081810.jpg


Of course not... 



GriffinsRule said:


> Probably means the picture was of a different crash


It's airways fun pulling someone's tail

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## PanzerKiel

GriffinsRule said:


> Hopefully it wasn't an image of this crash
> 
> 
> https://resize1.indiatvnews.com/en/resize/newbucket/715_-/2018/06/nashik-20-1530081810.jpg


It was...￼￼￼let's not oblige the Indians here so easily..... 

Anyways, it's D minus 6... Let's wait for the planned fly past on 27 February. Should be fun.

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## Luosifen

ghazi52 said:


> Respect the Tea !!
> It opens your eyes.......................................................................
> 
> View attachment 816929


How does the PAF not have a squadron nicknamed 'The Teabaggers' yet? 🤔

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## untitled

PanzerKiel said:


> Let's wait for the planned fly past on 27 February. Should be fun



23rd March or 27th February? Are there 2 planned?

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## Scorpio_26

GriffinsRule said:


> Hopefully it wasn't an image of this crash
> 
> 
> https://resize1.indiatvnews.com/en/resize/newbucket/715_-/2018/06/nashik-20-1530081810.jpg



Oh boy i sure hope that it wasn't.


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## Flight of falcon

Is there a way to commercially buy satellite images online ? 

I remember after Feb 27 I exchanged emails with one company asking them if they can provide me before and after views of specific areas where Pakistan bombed Indian targets. 
Their representative told me that they will need precise locations ( which were not known until exact locations were revealed later on).

I don’t mind paying and getting such images but someone warned me that it may not be possible for individuals to acquire such images and I may be asked a lot of questions. 

Anyone here with a knowledge in this area ??

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## Viper27

Windjammer said:


> Although i recognised Nauman Ali instantly but I have been told that one of these other pilots currently in Saudi Arab for an exercise is OC N0-5 Squadron, Wing Commander Tariq Waheed who was also in the thick of Swift Retort, he was flying as the wing man to Nauman Ali and squarely had Abhinandan's wing man locked but he bugged out leaving his leader to enjoy his tea alone.
> 
> View attachment 817125
> 
> View attachment 817127
> 
> @Hodor @SQ8 @kursed @PanzerKiel
> 
> Any idea which one is the said officer.


 
He won Sher Afghan in 2015.


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## Goritoes

@PanzerKiel how about a double plate Biryani with Raita, salaad and Pepsi ? does that get me the picture ?

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## Salza

Yellow13 said:


> Could you please DM it to me?



LOL you just joined the forum precisely for the picture. 

Dubious profile.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Salza said:


> LOL you just joined the forum precisely for the picture.
> 
> Dubious profile.


What picture we need it reposted


----------



## Zowais

Goritoes said:


> @PanzerKiel how about a double plate Biryani with Raita, salaad and Pepsi ? does that get me the picture ?


You forgot to add "dekh ke delete kar doon ga"

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## Goritoes

Zowais said:


> You forgot to add "dekh ke delete kar doon ga"


Ager dekh ke delete hi kerna hai tu double plate biryani kyun dun ? Single plate hi kafi hai...

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## SIPRA

Goritoes said:


> @PanzerKiel how about a double plate Biryani with Raita, salaad and Pepsi ? does that get me the picture ?



Aap nain @PanzerKiel Sahib ko "patwaari" samajh rakha hae?

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## Windjammer

--------------

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Raider 21 said:


> Negative. This info was *conveyed by the senior leadership of the air force to some retirees*, who thank goodness stayed silent as per being asked to do so. They were told that the Su-30MKI aircrew tried to recover to an airfield but crashed short of the runway. Pilots were assumed to have ejected and survived.


Why retirees?

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## Bigbang1983

Windjammer said:


> [ATTA----------ACH]


Salam.
Pak nos. Should be blurred.

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## Pakistan Space Agency

ummarz said:


> Cool info man. If you watch the interview towards the end the air commodore explains that there is a data exchange that was happening between the missile and the plane and it suggests a kill... idk


Interestingly he says, "We can't show wreckage."

Does that also imply photograph(s) of the wreckage? Sorry, I'm splitting hair here.

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## Windjammer

Bigbang1983 said:


> Salam.
> Pak nos. Should be blurred.


Wasalam....

What's the point since Indians on Twitter are posting it along with their usual ridiculous claim.

[MEDI530112053252[/MEDIA]

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## Bilal.

Windjammer said:


> Wasalam....
> 
> What's the point since Indians on Twitter are posting it along with their usual ridiculous claim.
> 
> [MEDI053252[/MEDIA]


They keep repeating fake news and make it believable for their people.

We keep hiding real news and make it doubtful for our people.

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## Windjammer

Bilal. said:


> They keep repeating fake news and make it believable for their people.
> 
> We keep hiding real news and make it doubtful for our people.


So at the end of the day, who is fooling and making a complete jerk of their own public.
PAF believes in delivering by actions rather than just empty words.

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## Bilal.

Windjammer said:


> So at the end of the day, who is fooling and making a complete jerk of their own public.
> PAF believes in delivering by actions rather than just empty words.


It’s also a war of narratives in the information domain. On that front we are giving them a walkover.

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## Windjammer

Bilal. said:


> It’s also a war of narratives in the information domain. On that front we are giving them a walkover.


Well, what's stopping you from replying to every Prem, Preety , Patil and other unemployed call centre clowns.

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## Bilal.

Windjammer said:


> Well, what's stopping you from replying to every Prem, Preety , Patil and other unemployed call centre clowns.


They are pretty much employed. Part of the huge disinformation machine. Reply from our information machine is what is required.

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## Primus

Windjammer said:


> Wasalam....
> 
> What's the point since Indians on Twitter are posting it along with their usual ridiculous claim.
> 
> [MEDIA3252[/MEDIA]


No award for 'Hyder Ali' until Shazaz ud din gets his 😤


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## Princeps Senatus

Windjammer said:


> Well, what's stopping you from replying to every Prem, Preety , Patil and other unemployed call centre clowns.


agar Rafale wreckage ki photos hoti to...


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## Flight of falcon

I fail to see any logic what so ever by any stretch of imagination why if we have a proof of second Indian aircraft destroyed we are not “leaking” it .

I can understand if we at some point wanted to hide how we brought the aircraft down but now that Indians have proudly displayed AMRAAM as a used condomn we should do our part and show where is was used.

I had several exchanges with Air Forces Monthly editor on this topic and I failed to convince him that we had shot down two aircrafts in the absences of any real proof.

Our narrative and truth is meaningless unless we show some proof of this incident.


This is one of my several exchanges with Thomas and you can clearly see his point. I have edited my name and email addresses.




> *From:* Thomas Newdick <thomas.newdick@keypublishing.com>
> *Date:* March 28, 2019 at 2:57:08 PM EDT
> *To:*
> *Subject:* *Re: April 2019 edition letter to editor regarding ‘Air war over Kashmir’.*





> Dear Dr,
> 
> Many thanks for your letter in regard to AFM’s coverage of the air war over Kashmir.
> 
> Clearly, both sides have made claims that can’t be proven – I think the news story carefully makes clear what are proven facts and which are (official) claims. Ultimately, there are more of the latter, and these can only provide a framework to understand what might ave happened.
> 
> The item makes clear that only one kill has been confirmed (that of a MiG-21bisUPG Bison).
> 
> As you observe, the IAF air strikes apparently had little effect on their intended target; for this reason, I did not mention Indian claims of "surgical strikes on terrorists camp [that] killed over 300 people”. In fact, I limited the account to the PAF side of the story here, i.e. “six to eight Indian aircraft were effectively intercepted by PAF jets and forced to scuttle back while randomly releasing their ordnance”.
> As for the F-16D claim, I have made clear that this is only a “possibility” and I note that Pakistan officially denies losing any aircraft. This is an official claim on the Indian side, after all, so warrants mention, as does the Pakistani claim of another Indian jet downed (again with no hard evidence as yet).
> The point stands that neither side has presented evidence of kills against the second IAF fighter or the PAF F-16D. As such, I am confident that the news item does not present as fact anything that can’t be substantiated. The question of satellite evidence is important, but it’s not unfeasible for wreckage to be removed or concealed before such imagery is updated. Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible. (This is in contrast to the air strike, of course, where evidence is enduring). However, as it stands, both sides are still claiming unsubstantiated kills.
> 
> I hope that you continue to enjoy AFM’s coverage of military aviation and thanks again for your thoughts on this interesting topic.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Thomas Newdick
> Editor, AirForces Monthly

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## Raider 21

Windjammer said:


> Wasalam....
> 
> What's the point since Indians on Twitter are posting it along with their usual ridiculous claim.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495701530112053252


I don't know how the hell this picture got leaked out on the right on twitter, but it says CONFIDENTIAL at the bottom. Report that tweet and delete this post.

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## Windjammer

Raider 21 said:


> I don't know how the hell this picture got leaked out on the right on twitter, but it says CONFIDENTIAL at the bottom. Report that tweet and delete this post.


Dude you are acting a bit odd these days....remove this...delete this....report this....
A little reverse search reveals that this detail has been circulating on social media since it was issued. 
Even the Bakhtoras posted it on their echo chamber on 14 August 2019.

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## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> Dude you are acting a bit odd these days....remove this...delete this....report this....
> A little reverse search reveals that this detail has been circulating on social media since it was issued.
> Even the Bakhtoras posted it on their echo chamber on 14 August 2019.



For the safety and our part of responsibility, we can avoid using such info on the Forum so that we ain't posting anything.

In the meantime, it's up to concern officials to fire and grill someone's papa, chacha, mama, cousin or brother in law for taking photo and sending it for Brownie points.



Raider 21 said:


> I have been instructed to exercise caution on certain details for the safety of the pilots and their families. They beg to limit info on THIS particular forum. So forgive me for my concern on this DUDE

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## Windjammer

@The Eagle 

Some of the posts that quoted me also contain the info material.
I would suggest kindly delete those posts as well,

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## Flight of falcon

Windjammer said:


> @The Eagle
> 
> Some of the posts that quoted me also contain the info material.
> I would suggest kindly delete those posts as well,




Those images are everywhere on the internet. Simply type the title and they even have a video .


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## Windjammer

Bilal. said:


> They are pretty much employed. Part of the huge disinformation machine. Reply from our information machine is what is required.


Is it worth arguing with idiots who can't even understand that subject being discussed is Indian soldiers and nothing to do with Balakot casualties.... no one takes these clowns seriously. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495161209661706244
*''It stated that the call lasted two minutes and 27 seconds, during which Mr Khan exchanged congratulatory remarks with the pilot, who stated on his own, without being questioned by the petitioner, that whatever was being shown on media was not even 30pc and that there had been 350 casualties on ground.''









Lecturer moves LHC against conviction over leaked call to PAF pilot


The lecturer had congratulated his former student for shooting down the Indian fighter plane flown by Abhinandan Varthaman.



www.dawn.com




*

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Raider 21 said:


> I don't know how the hell this picture got leaked out on the right on twitter, but it says CONFIDENTIAL at the bottom. Report that tweet and delete this post.





Windjammer said:


> Dude you are acting a bit odd these days....remove this...delete this....report this....
> A little reverse search reveals that this detail has been circulating on social media since it was issued.
> Even the Bakhtoras posted it on their echo chamber on 14 August 2019.


What's the issue here?

The report is just a list of pilots that were awarded for Operation Swift Retort.

The photo is a screenshot from a TV program about a Sherdil team pilot. This pilot is not mentioned in the list of awarded pilots. The 2 things are unrelated.

The Indian has made up a claim that this Sherdil pilot is dead.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495699654675255302


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## Big_bud

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 816995
> 
> Ex RAAF Mirage IIIDA, No 15 TA Squadron. H-4 Guidance
> View attachment 816996
> 
> Ex RAAF Mirage IIIDA, No 15 TA Squadron
> 
> View attachment 816997
> 
> Mirage VPA, No 15 TA Squadron H-4 Launch
> 
> View attachment 816998
> 
> F-17 Block 2, No 16 Squadron #BlackPanthers 2× Mk-83 REK Launch
> 
> View attachment 816999
> 
> JF-17 Block 2, No 16 MR Squadron 2× Mk-83 REK Launch
> 
> View attachment 817000
> 
> F-16AM Block 15 MLU, No 29 MR Squadron #Aggressors (aircraft from 11) Pilot: W/C Nauman Ali Khan AIM-120 AMRAAM launch
> 
> View attachment 817001
> 
> F-16BM Block 15 MLU, 29 MR Squadron (aircraft from 11) Pilot: S/L Hassan Saddiqui. AIM-120 AMRAAM launch



F16 is the most sexy jet ever! The eyes just get fixed on it!

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## Samar111

siegecrossbow said:


> With what?


With MIG-21....

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## Bossman

Indians are getting very anxious. Seems a new surprise is coming their way, soon.

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## ummarz

Flight of falcon said:


> I fail to see any logic what so ever by any stretch of imagination why if we have a proof of second Indian aircraft destroyed we are not “leaking” it .
> 
> I can understand if we at some point wanted to hide how we brought the aircraft down but now that Indians have proudly displayed AMRAAM as a used condomn we should do our part and show where is was used.
> 
> I had several exchanges with Air Forces Monthly editor on this topic and I failed to convince him that we had shot down two aircrafts in the absences of any real proof.
> 
> Our narrative and truth is meaningless unless we show some proof of this incident.
> 
> 
> This is one of my several exchanges with Thomas and you can clearly see his point. I have edited my name and email addresses.


Hey brother, I can think of a couple of reasons.

1: Pakistan doesn't want to 'have to prove' what it claims. PAF is a professional outfit, what they say should be the final word. Besides what stops the enemy from rejecting such proofs.
2: The evidence that Pakistan has is sensitive, revealing it can reveal the position and capabilities of our radar installations and potentially a few other things. This information can be exploited by the enemy to plan better next time.

We can sacrifice our feelings for the security of the nation. I am very sure that as soon it becomes feasible, PAF will release necessary information.

Cheers

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## ummarz

Samar111 said:


> With MIG-21....


Are you suggesting that Abhi rammed the Mig into the PAK jet? cause he sure as hell didn't use any of the 4 missiles onboard...

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## Flight of falcon

ummarz said:


> Are you suggesting that Abhi rammed the Mig into the PAK jet? cause he sure as hell didn't use any of the 4 missiles onboard...




No he used his pistol…. One bullet was found missing. 
After ejecting he fired with his gun and brought the F16 down .

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## Riz

Flight of falcon said:


> No he used his pistol…. One bullet was found missing.
> After ejecting he fired with his gun and brought the F16 down .


Pak bought all 4 mijjiles from ebay  PAF bought a dummy F-16 from ebay before the final counting of pak F-16

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## jaybird

The other day I went to an Indian military forum because of the J-10CP news and see what they have to say, and then on their Pakistan thread all I see was Abhinandan heroic action and shot down of F-16 discussion. I mean what was I thinking..... I should've known better to go there.

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## TopGun786

Samar111 said:


> With MIG-21....


Yes actually Abhinandan had a stone in his hand and when F-16 was near he opened the "window" and threw it on bull's eye. F16 was sh0t but due to high wind pressure at super sonic speed Abhinandan was also hurled out of the the jet and eventually landed inside Azad Kashmir.... Rest of the story you people know well.
Edit : P.S I a forgot to mention the fate of PAF F16. As Abhi-none-done was flying his "Super mig" at Mach 5, it added to the speed of stone he hurled and it acted as a meteorite which on impact vaporize F-16, hence no proof of where it went (later PAF bought a dummy F16 from eBay and put it on display along with other jets.
The fate of poor PAF pilot "Shahzaz Uddin'' is even more tragic. Upon landing local asked him to recite all 6 kalmas of Islam. He fumbled on the 6th kalma and eventually was lynched by locals. RIP


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## Metal 0-1

TsAr said:


> Most likely the Amraam hit the SU-30 over hilly area and the wreckage of the missile would be found there, if the SU was able to reach back to the airfield, how come was IAF able to find the wrecked AMram so quickly


Exactly whole NATO couldn't find Spanish AMRAAM fired accidentally over Estonia.

I think area of Estonia is smaller than IOK

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## Goritoes

SIPRA said:


> Aap nain @PanzerKiel Sahib ko "patwaari" samajh rakha hae?


Double plate Biryani pe jaan bhi Qurban, Patwari kia cheez hai... @PanzerKiel sahab ne leg piece ki demand ki hai...

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## Zowais

Goritoes said:


> Double plate Biryani pe jaan bhi Qurban, Patwari kia cheez hai... @PanzerKiel sahab ne leg piece ki demand ki hai...


Did sir @PanzerKiel wink after making the demand and say (in Pashto accent) "par piece tat hona chahiay"?

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## Zarvan

PanzerKiel said:


> It was...￼￼￼let's not oblige the Indians here so easily.....
> 
> Anyways, it's D minus 6... Let's wait for the planned fly past on 27 February. Should be fun.


Waiting for it Sir


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## Ghessan

27 February 2022:

why don't all of us members give a "hazri" on this very thread, at the time and date of operation conducted?

we should do it every year, cause this thread is not going anywhere.

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## Goritoes

PanzerKiel said:


> [ATTAC]
> 
> This leg piece?


For this leg piece you need to give me a personal ride in F-16 and VT-4 Tanks. And if you did manage to do that, just to warn you, my legs have a tiny bit more hair than the leg piece in Picture.

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## PanzerKiel

Goritoes said:


> For this leg piece you need to give me a personal ride in F-16 and VT-4 Tanks. And if you did manage to do that, just to warn you, my legs have a tiny bit more hair than the leg piece in Picture.


I can get you the rides, but of course it's not your legs which I desire...

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## arjunk

PanzerKiel said:


> Like you say, I'll post part of the image. Of course I can say with some foresight that you won't stop at this, even though you said that you'll be fine if I post part of it.

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## Aesterix

Can we please post all the videos depicting surprise day and indian losses on 27th February 2019? Specially actual footage?
Google, YouTube and twitter are making the search of those videos difficult.
If you search, you see load of Indian propaganda.

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## Primus



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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

Kuch yad ayah .........

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## ghazi52



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## ghazi52

2019
Jammu and Kashmir airstrikes.


Date27 February 2019LocationJammu and Kashmir, India33.38°N 74.3°ECoordinates:33.38°N 74.3°E

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## NA71

dear brothers ....just to refresh 27/2 memories ...these were the first two posts ...breaking the news of 27/2 operation swift Retort

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## Signalian

Operation Swift Retort: Pakistan’s Response to the Indian Aggression and Miscalculation​
Despite Pakistan reiterating its desire for peace talks and extending an olive branch, India has always spurned its efforts to defuse tensions. Instead, whenever an important event is to take place in Pakistan and the country is moving towards progress, an incident is either staged in India or Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IIOJK), with a disquieting rise of war hysteria in the country. Additionally, a pattern that has come to the fore shows how these events seem to take place when the elections are due in India.





Director-General Inter-Services Public Relations highlighted such instances in a press conference that was held in 2019: "In December 2001 ─ the Indian parliament attack ─ India was supposed to have general elections and the presidential election in 2002, the United Nations General Assembly was in session. It was around this time that an influx of terrorists began on Pakistan's western border following 9/11. When the Mumbai attack took place, our progress in the war on terror was quite good and at this time too, there were to be general elections in India from February to December.” 

“On January 2, 2016, Pathankot happened. The President of the United States' State of the Union address was due. India was to see state elections and there were foreign secretary-level talks scheduled between India and Pakistan. That was scuttled… The Uri incident happened on September 18, 2016, when our prime minister was set to go to the UNGA to deliver a speech," he added.

India’s penchant for phantom surgical strikes, displaying the urge for military adventurism was clearly seen after Indian military base in Uri in IIOJK was attacked by freedom fighters in September 2016. India accused Pakistan of its involvement even before the Uri attack was over. This hasty charge seemed strange. To follow up, India claimed to have carried out a surgical strike against the ‘terrorist launch pads’ in response to the Uri attack which was predictably blamed on Pakistan. However, on ground, the proof of a surgical strike having been conducted was nowhere to be found – apart from a firing incident along the LOC which was strongly and befittingly responded to as per the rules of engagement – as if magically any evidence of a surgical strike had vanished into thin air, leaving behind rising tensions that India kept stoking. 

In February 2019, Pakistan was preparing for significant events that were either to take place in Pakistan or involved Pakistan in February-March 2019, such as1 Saudi Crown Prince's visit and investment conference; discussion on United Nations Security Council terror listing; Afghan peace talks; European Union discussion on IIOJK; Hearing of Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav's case at the International Court of Justice (ICJ); Discussion on the FATF report; meeting between Pakistan, Indian officials on Kartarpur Corridor developments; and Pakistan Super League matches were to be played in Pakistan.

That was not to the liking of India, therefore, in a staged incident in Pulwama on February 14, India, as expected, immediately blamed Pakistan without any inquiry or concrete evidence. Indian leadership resorted to bellicosity and belligerence vowing to avenge and give a ‘strong response’, despite failing to provide actionable evidence of Pakistan’s involvement. The following events transpired from February 15 to February 25, 20192:
▪ February 15: Modi vows 'strong response' to Pulwama; India withdraws Most Favoured Nation status for Pakistan
▪ February 16: Pakistan seeks 'actionable evidence'
▪ February 18: Pakistan calls back high commissioner in India
▪ India begins arguments in Jadhav case before ICJ
▪ February 19: PM Imran asks Delhi to share evidence; India spurns PM Imran’s olive branch
▪ February 21: UN chief calls for ‘meaningful’ engagement; Congress tells Modi not to 'play politics' over Pulwama; NSC orders acceleration of anti-terrorism ops
▪ February 22: ‘Talks, not war,’ Pakistan Army chief warns India against ‘misadventure’; Qureshi writes a letter to UNSC
▪ February 25: FM postpones Japan tour; 'Pakistan armed forces fully prepared for befitting response to Indian aggression': COAS

From this turn of events, it can be concluded that India was beating the drums of war once again, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s eyes firmly set on the next elections. This time around, however, Pakistan was not one to sit back and the subsequent events were to completely erode the credibility of Indian politico-military leadership. A clear message was given by the Pakistani politico-military leadership that Pakistan would pick the place and time to respond to this uncalled for aggression.

*India Escalates the Situation – February 26, 2019*

The cold night of February 26, 2019 saw an unusual air activity of Indian Air Force (IAF) as picked up by the radars of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in Bahawalpur, Lahore and Sialkot Sector. Due to the timely matching response by PAF in all three sectors, Indian jets didn’t dare to invade. The environment seemed immersed in the pangs of war. India was up to ‘something’, but the question on everyone’s mind was what could it be? Pakistan’s politico-military leadership was in a unanimous agreement that India would, without a shred of doubt, be scheming to repeat its infamous phantom surgical strikes. However, that became evident in the wee hours of February 26, 2019, when a heavy team of Indian planes purposefully violated Pakistani airspace across the Line of Control (LOC). PAF instantly picked up the movement and swiftly responded with its fighters chasing the Indian jets. Sensing the obvious blow, the Indian jets panicked and dropped their payloads over the forests of Balakot (Jabba) while rushing back to safety to their side of the LOC.

DG ISPR, while addressing a press conference on February 26, said that the Indian air force started their intrusion at the Pakistani airspace on three fronts. He further said that one of the Combat Air Patrol (CAP) was in the air when the first visibility of an Indian formation came on radar while approaching towards the Lahore-Sialkot border. “Our CAP approached and challenged them and they returned seven to eight nautical miles within their borders and did not cross into our territory,” he said. “The second Indian formation was spotted at Okara-Bahawalpur sector, but they also did not dare to cross into Pakistan when another Pakistani CAP was sent to that side as standard operation procedure (SOP).” He mentioned how the third CAP picked a relatively heavier formation at Muzaffarabad near Keran Valley. “They had crossed the LoC by four to five nautical miles when we challenged them. They had crossed the LoC for four minutes before the PAF challenged them.”

The Indian forces wanted to target the civilian population so they could claim that they had targeted alleged terrorist base camps to benefit their warmongering. However, due to Pakistan’s swift response, they released their payload of four bombs which dropped miles away near Jabba, Balakot, and left the area immediately.

*Strategic Messaging*

Speaking at a press conference, DG ISPR dared India, "I said three things: You will never be able to surprise us and we have not been surprised. We were ready, we responded, we denied. I said we will retain the escalation ladder. We have that initiative in our hand," he said. "I am saying that we will surprise you. Wait for that surprise. Our response will be different. See it for yourself. The response will come, and response will come differently."

Meanwhile, addressing a joint press conference with the Ministers of Defence and Finance, the Foreign Minister stated that Pakistan rejected India’s claim of targeting an alleged terrorist camp near Balakot and heavy casualties. “The Bhartiya Janata Party was rejected in five Indian states so it had to resort to something… when it is time for elections, politicians start losing their minds,” Qureshi said. “Even within India people are raising questions and saying the story is not the same as being narrated.”

The Defence Minister talked about PAF being airborne, waiting for any eventuality and that the Indian aircraft dropped their payload some four to five kilometers inside the LOC. "At 2:55 am the Indian planes entered (the Pakistani airspace). At 2:58 am they (were driven out) of our airspace. They fled from the LoC because of the alertness of our Air Force," the Foreign Minister said, as he warned not to "underestimate their (the air force's) ability to defend Pakistan."3 

*Operation Swift Retort – February 27, 2019*

Meanwhile, on February 26 2019, an unusually busy day in the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, Pakistan Army officers along with PAF officers appeared busy inside their high-tech operations room. Decked up in the wartime uniform, they were bent over a large map illuminated on the tabletop screen, urgency reflecting in their very demeanor. Careful planning is, after all, an intrinsic part of such precision operations. The rules were clear – keeping the country secure tops every other concern. 





While they were busy encircling places on the map with a marker, the door opened and an army officer who appeared to be their senior walked in. In anticipation of a significant piece of news, they became attentive. The officer took a deep breath and said, “Gentlemen”, further arousing the curiosity with a deliberate pause. His expression remained neutral and the voice steady, giving an air of solid confidence that resonated with the present situation and the quality of an Army officer, as he spoke, “A decision has been made. The top brass is convinced that an immediate response is essential. We are going for contingency 3.”

The politico-military leadership had decided to give a swift response through PAF, covering all grounds in the planning of the response that came to be known as Operation ‘Swift Retort’. 

The timing of the attack was left to the decision of the Air Force while the targets had been distinctly marked for them – the Indian Army installations across LOC. Although the response to India breaching Pakistan’s sovereignty was to be a notch higher – quid pro quo plus – it was kept clear that there shall be no casualty during the operation. 

A question was raised by the officers on how that would be ensured given Indian inclination to transform everything into an opportunity to malign Pakistan in front of the international community. The senior officer present in the meeting thus spoke of the unique decision to drift their targets at the very last moment. The officials had taken into consideration that Pakistan Air Force has cameras attached to their bombs which would provide sufficient proof in response to any fake news originating from India on Operation Swift Retort. It would be enough to prove that the drifting was deliberate so that there is no loss of lives, while leaving no doubt that the PAF jets hovered above their heads and had Pakistan wanted it, havoc would have been wreaked.

On being briefed on the details of the mission, the officers began to further chart out their plan. On February 27, 2019, warplanes of PAF took to the sky and carried out the specified protocol of the operation, delivering an emphatic blow to the enemy. However, IAF, in an attempt to further escalate the aerial mission, breached Pakistan’s airspace and crossed into Pakistan while chasing the aircraft. The officers of PAF not only defended the skies of Pakistan but also deterred the aggressors in a jaw-breaking dogfight that was instigated by IAF. The successful sortie resulted in PAF downing two fighter aircraft of IAF. 

The capture and subsequent release of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman proved to be a testament to Pakistan’s resolve to safeguard its territorial integrity as well as give India a befitting response. The state of Pakistan, its Army, and Air Force proved that despite an unwavering stance for peaceful resolutions and table talks with their adversary, they will not step back from giving an appropriate response to India’s misadventures. 

Despite hardcore proof of the downing of the planes along with reports that disregarded Indian claims of shooting down Pakistan’s F-16 aircraft, the Indian leadership went to the extent of awarding Abhinandan the third highest gallantry award, the Vir Chakra, last year. 
1. DG ISPR reiterates 'talks, not war' proposal to India, distances Pakistan from Pulwama, _Dawn_, February 22, 2019.
2. Timeline: Events leading up to the Feb 2019 Pak-India aerial combat, _Dawn_, Updated February 27, 2021
3. We will pick time, place to hit back,_ The News,_ February 27, 2019


Read 114 times









Operation Swift Retort: Pakistan’s Response to the Indian Aggression and Miscalculation


Despite Pakistan reiterating its desire for peace talks and extending an olive branch, India has always spurned its efforts to defuse tensions. Instead, whenever an important event is to take place in Pakistan and the country is moving towards progress, an incident is either staged in India or...




www.hilal.gov.pk

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## PanzerKiel

Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.

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## White privilege

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


_Khalai Makhlooq..!!_



PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


BTW I really want to know but wont it be an _OPSEC _problem if the mystery runs so deep??

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## Raja Porus

Signalian said:


> timing of the attack was left to the decision of the Air Force while the targets had been distinctly marked for them


The targets were designated by the PA incoordination with PAF in GHQ and not in AHQ?

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## Ghessan

Desert Fox 1 said:


> The targets were designated by the PA incoordination with PAF in GHQ and not in AHQ?



it was not just an air operation but the consequences which it may cause later. 

the planning at GHQ was probably for any misadventure at borders or in any form in retaliation. i think even PN personnel were also present.

PAF in relation to SR would have planned in detail and its execution at AHQ.

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## ziaulislam

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


F16b52+

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## Metal 0-1

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


SPJ-600 on Thunder _(Mod edit: use the right term/name)_

me no hablo experto

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## Princeps Senatus

Metal 0-1 said:


> SPJ-600 on Jeffs
> 
> me no hablo experto


As the name suggests it is a self-protection jammer (SPJ), it only protects the aircraft carrying it.

If not Falcon 20, it could have been another EW business jet that we are not yet aware of. Or perhaps another larger dedicated EW platform obtained from China.

I wouldn't rule out a "growler" version of Thunder though... who knows 👀

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## Ghessan

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.



was it some asset from ground?

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## HRK

PanzerKiel said:


> Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course.


'panjnad' .... ??

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## White privilege

Some user rumored about a pair of AESA equipped Thunders, may be it was them???

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## The Eagle

I have edited almost 3 posts and corrected the name/designation for JF-17 Thunder. Members are informed that either you use correct name/designation or your posts will be deleted.

Regards,

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## HRK

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


Sir jee Jeeto Pakistan waley Fahad Mustafa Na bamey bata dey hum masssom bachoo ko ... kon se prize main 10 tola gold nikal na hai hamara ....

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## Danish Moazzam

There were rumor that 02 Nos. Aesa Equipped Thunders were in air on the 27th. If they can jam comms then the neighbors are in for a big Pain. We will have a sizeable fleet of Aesa equipped Thunders and added J-20 (or whatever the PAF calls the birds when they land)

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## ghazi52



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## Bin Laden

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


Yo fr? I was under the impression that DA-20 handled all the EW that day. In anycase :

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## SIPRA

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.



*Sir Jee:* Yeh hum jaahil logon ko kiss truck ki batti kay peechhay laga diya hae?

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## Zarf

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


_Kia_?? wasn't it blinders??

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## Primus

Bin Laden said:


> Yo fr? I was under the impression that DA-20 handled all the EW that day. In anycase :
> View attachment 818194


Ive just now noticed your name and profile picture. That is the most cursed crap ive seen in a long timw


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## Riz

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


Panjnad home made EW suit 😍

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## White privilege

Zarf said:


> _Kia_?? wasn't it blinders??


My question as well.PAF credited the DA-20 in official capacity.Even _Invincible Resolve _showed the Blinders at work as Nandu intruded and jammed the ground controllers desperate calls to _turn cold._I guess may be that was a deception too.

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## Zarf

Riz said:


> Panjnad home made EW suit 😍


Only heard about it.
_Kab bana .. Kis ne banaya?, Bhai hamare knowledge zara halki he is baare men._


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## White privilege

Panzer paaji being _Mr. Bean _right now.No words but still making us go crazy🤣😁

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## Vortex

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.



I know what blinded Indians !




Spoiler: Blinder



Modi’s fart.

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## Metal 0-1

The Eagle said:


> I have edited almost 3 posts and corrected the name/designation for JF-17 Thunder. Members are informed that either you use correct name/designation or your posts will be deleted.
> 
> Regards,


My man chill.


Don't make it a personal issue. I see only you have the problem with J***. I don't see others going ballistic over it.


Chill out

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## The Eagle

Metal 0-1 said:


> My man chill.
> 
> 
> Don't make it a personal issue. I see only you have the problem with J***. I don't see others going ballistic over it.
> 
> 
> Chill out



Thunder is not my personal fighter jet. Let's call it appropriately instead of using some random name. The problem is with naming it wrongly since it never appears in search like that.

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## TheTallGuy

@PanzerKiel 

sir, “Panjnad” was with the 2 x JF17 Block II that engaged with Mirage 2000s.

and yes 2 more JF17 Block 2 were involved While the engagement with MiG-21 was happening till F16 call dibs..

am i close enough?

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## jk007

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 816749
> View attachment 816750
> 
> 
> 
> and dont worry dear...we will not let it rest....mehmaan nawaazi hum per khatam hai.....why should we rest on our achievements....this thread will remain evergreen.....if you want rest, open up a new thread for rest lovers....here you will find all of us as young fire-pissers, nothing else.



Generally, human nature is such that, after some years and experience, humans try to raise above national & parochial narrative and show more interest in finding & propagating truth.

But I guess - Pakistanis are exceptions. The more experience they have, the more narrative they want to believe (most desperately). Maybe, the environment is such that - any questions asked will probably have consequences. Hence, everyone will parrot the national narrative louder and louder.

On topic:
a) Recently, you said you came up with a picture of SU-30 shot down and lying on airfield. Is not everything already discovered yet? Is there something more to be discovered?
b) Also, you came up with idea of IAF coming up with pictures from exercises with Oman air force, and will show them as happened on Feb-2019? This is pure genius. You busted our plans, and also the big reason for exercises with Oman F-16s is busted. Now, what do we do??

I want to ask a question (about how much Imran Khan can milk this? and why is he not doing it?) that should have been very obvious to all of you. But then, no point.

PS: This is not an ad homieum attack on your person (or) on any other pakistani. Please don't take as one.


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## SQ8

jk007 said:


> Generally, human nature is such that, after some years and experience, humans try to raise above national & parochial narrative and show more interest in finding & propagating truth.
> 
> But I guess - Pakistanis are exceptions. The more experience they have, the more narrative they want to believe (most desperately). Maybe, the environment is such that - any questions asked will probably have consequences. Hence, everyone will parrot the national narrative louder and louder.
> 
> PS: This is not an ad homieum attack on your person (or) on any other pakistani. Please don't take as one.


Or take the Indian approach and accuse others of what you practice yourself. In this parrot the Bhaktora narrative and act self righteous while doing it.

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## GiantPanda

jk007 said:


> Generally, human nature is such that, after some years and experience, humans try to raise above national & parochial narrative and show more interest in finding & propagating truth.



Rise above parochial narrative? I have NEVER seen an Indian do that. Even when ALL the pictures and proof comes from the other side.

No pictures of PAF aircraft shot down only that of an IAF one. There was only one prisoner and he was Indian.

No pictures of Indians with Chinese prisoners at Galwan but pictures of dozens and dozens of Indian ones.

In spite of all this, every Indian I come across still lies to himself and others. lol

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## Talon

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


Hmm .. then why some of Blinders have their names mentioned on Swift Retort monument?

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## kursed

Truck ki batti. 

SPJs don’t jam comms. And JFs specifically didn’t use EW that day. And for a good reason.

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## Raja Porus

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


Seems unlikely...
Still I think it's either ALQ-131 (less chances since it is more of a SPJ) on F16blk15s or more probable is the *ALQ-231.*
ALQ-211 can't be because its with blk52s.
Kaiser Tufail also mentioned Ground based jammers (Koral; speculation).

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## ziaulislam

PanzerKiel said:


> Just another important point, and food for thought for all.... We all know that Abhinandan was jammed... Fact is, Blinders were not in air at that time.....so it was another platform, not Saab of course..... Let's see who hits the bullseye..... Three days to go.


Of not block52 with its jammers , was it PIA then

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## PanzerKiel

Hodor said:


> Hmm .. then why some of Blinders have their names mentioned on Swift Retort monument?


We have to give credit to someone if we don't want to expose our primary assets.



Desert Fox 1 said:


> Seems unlikely...


OK.... But it also means you are not aware of ALL the jamming assets held in inventory.



kursed said:


> Truck ki batti.


Ab woh din aagaya hai k I'm being labeled as truck ki batti. Nice.

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## SQ8

PanzerKiel said:


> We have to give credit to someone if we don't want to expose our primary assets.
> 
> 
> OK.... But it also means you are not aware of ALL the jamming assets held in inventory.
> 
> 
> Ab woh din aagaya hai k I'm being labeled as truck ki batti. Nice.


I think the bigger issue is that the primary assets should be left undeclared. My policy is if yourself and others in similar shoes think three times about opsec before saying anything I will add two more layers including one of disinformation.

*For the rest of readers* its as simple as a DCS user like me asking a Thunder rider whether he beats the viper in a 1-circle or rate fight and if the Thunder out rates it. There are videos galore of DCS streamers talking of tactics and videos all over but because he does the real deal so his response was “Its a mix and the F-16 is great but we have pretty effective ways to kill it and better fighters than it” then he changes the topic.

At no point was PDF in my mind to ask him that and at no point did he mention anything other than whats been uttered here and there. Gone are the days of loose mouths and generally those with them aren’t really in the know in the first place. 

Even veterans that speak online on subjects talk of items you can find open source information that your enemies already know about. US pilots talking aircraft and flying tactics are mostly ad-libbing books on fighter combat tactics and maneuvering that you can download a pdf for today.

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## White privilege

kursed said:


> Truck ki batti.


Yeh hamara truck hai...
Aur yeh uski batti hai...
Aur yeh Indians ko iske peeche lgane ki tayari horahi hai...!!!🤣😄

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## Gripen9

PanzerKiel said:


> We have to give credit to someone if we don't want to expose our primary assets.
> 
> 
> OK.... But it also means you are not aware of ALL the jamming assets held in inventory.
> 
> 
> Ab woh din aagaya hai k I'm being labeled as truck ki batti. Nice.


Our resident maskirovka specialist 😀

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## kursed

PanzerKiel said:


> We have to give credit to someone if we don't want to expose our primary assets.
> 
> 
> OK.... But it also means you are not aware of ALL the jamming assets held in inventory.
> 
> 
> Ab woh din aagaya hai k I'm being labeled as truck ki batti. Nice.


Sir, ab .. lol, people are confusing comm jammers with drfm self protection suites.. I had to say that. =P

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## Thorough Pro

Don't disclose this poor fella's name




PanzerKiel said:


> We have to give credit to someone if we don't want to expose our primary assets.
> 
> 
> OK.... But it also means you are not aware of ALL the jamming assets held in inventory.
> 
> 
> Ab woh din aagaya hai k I'm being labeled as truck ki batti. Nice.

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## Raja Porus

PanzerKiel said:


> We have to give credit to someone if we don't want to expose our primary assets.
> 
> 
> OK.... But it also means you are not aware of ALL the jamming assets held in inventory.
> 
> 
> Ab woh din aagaya hai k I'm being labeled as truck ki batti. Nice.


ALRG?

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## Man of steel23

Thorough Pro said:


> Don't disclose this poor fella's name



Is that an attack bird


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## baqai

Interesting, another EW asset which was/is not declared, now that Panzer is talking about it maybe it's because we are near to having things declared publicly, we don't need disinformation because our neighbors already have their media and politicians to do that :p

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## Bleek

Was it his radar that was jammed too?

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## arjunk

PanzerKiel said:


> We have to give credit to someone if we don't want to expose our primary assets.
> 
> 
> OK.... But it also means you are not aware of ALL the jamming assets held in inventory.
> 
> 
> Ab woh din aagaya hai k I'm being labeled as truck ki batti. Nice.



It was the clouds. They blocked our radars as modiji said but they also blocked Indian comms.



Bleek said:


> Was it his radar that was jammed too?


There was an AIM-120C jammed up his @ss too.

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## Bleek

arjunk said:


> It was the clouds. They blocked our radars as modiji said but they also blocked Indian comms.


It was ISI spy pigeon, he jammed the jet's electronics and flew straight into the engine causing the jet to crash


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## Aesterix

#CrowMurderDay
.

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## TopGun786

#WeWillNeverForget

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## NA71

Today is the death anniversary of Mr. Crow who was died in Indian daring Air Strike on Balakot....

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## TsAr

SQ8 said:


> I think the bigger issue is that the primary assets should be left undeclared. My policy is if yourself and others in similar shoes think three times about opsec before saying anything I will add two more layers including one of disinformation.
> 
> *For the rest of readers* its as simple as a DCS user like me asking a Thunder rider whether he beats the viper in a 1-circle or rate fight and if the Thunder out rates it. There are videos galore of DCS streamers talking of tactics and videos all over but because he does the real deal so his response was “Its a mix and the F-16 is great but we have pretty effective ways to kill it and better fighters than it” then he changes the topic.
> 
> At no point was PDF in my mind to ask him that and at no point did he mention anything other than whats been uttered here and there. Gone are the days of loose mouths and generally those with them aren’t really in the know in the first place.
> 
> Even veterans that speak online on subjects talk of items you can find open source information that your enemies already know about. US pilots talking aircraft and flying tactics are mostly ad-libbing books on fighter combat tactics and maneuvering that you can download a pdf for today.


Can you send me a pm, need to discuss something, not related to this topic

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## Trailer23

How sad are Indians, that the day of their so-called Strikes on Balakot has passed and no one remembers their achievements in their Media or the great




* .

*A place where all the great minds & experts of India get together. Most of those losers are Members here on [PDF] 'cause they don't have anything to discuss there.

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## Windjammer

Trailer23 said:


> How sad are Indians, that the day of their so-called Strikes on Balakot has passed and no one remembers their achievements in their Media or the great
> View attachment 818867
> * .
> 
> *A place where all the great minds & experts of India get together. Most of those losers are Members here on [PDF] 'cause they don't have anything to discuss there.


Oh rest assured the Twitter Twats are very active on the social media, the Gobar Parsads have even managed to find Shahzuddin hiding under their sister's bed... remember these creatures belong to Modi's mindset who after 50 years decided to celebrate 1965 war as a victory.

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## The Eagle



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## GiantPanda

Trailer23 said:


> How sad are Indians, that the day of their so-called Strikes on Balakot has passed and no one remembers their achievements in their Media or the great
> View attachment 818867
> * .
> 
> *A place where all the great minds & experts of India get together. Most of those losers are Members here on [PDF] 'cause they don't have anything to discuss there.



Indian forums are extremely boring with just Indians doing circle jerk with other Indians. 

Unlike PDF which has practically everyone from around the world engaged in discussion. That is why Indians gather here (many as false flaggers!)

PDF is so engaging and good that I see that even its foreign nation sections like China pull in watchers from around the world to get their latest news on Chinese mil stuff here! And I find out more about Iranian, Bangladeshi, Turkish, Indonesian, Vietnamese and even Indian development here than anywhere else.

When I first started lurking on PDF, it was mainly to check in on Chinese systems in Pakistan like the JF-17 and F-22 frigates, etc. But now I come here for news on practically everywhere in Asia. In fact, I even come here for general Chinese mil news (PDF gets stuff as fast as the dedicated English-language Chinese forums.)

Great job PDF for being open, tolerant and extremely engaging. There is little wonder why even Indians flock here.

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## Trailer23

The Eagle said:


> View attachment 818878
> 
> 
> View attachment 818879


*a² + 2ab + b²*

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## SIPRA

Trailer23 said:


> *a² + 2ab + b²*



Modi, the greatest mathematician of our times.


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## FuturePAF

Trailer23 said:


> How sad are Indians, that the day of their so-called Strikes on Balakot has passed and no one remembers their achievements in their Media or the great
> 
> View attachment 818867
> * .
> 
> *A place where all the great minds & experts of India get together. Most of those losers are Members here on [PDF] 'cause they don't have anything to discuss there.


there are a few “think tank” YouTube channels that are mentioning it, and putting their usual spin on it. This one is a current live stream that mentions some details on the sources and methods of how they planned the attack


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## Raja Porus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118886903606996992

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## The Eagle

Reposting the whole story of 26th February, 2019 and next day..... These short points/snippets were posted in different threads with addition of new updates. Just for the refresher & as a summary; the details are undermentioned. These details are based upon Indian narrative, changing goal posts, media, official changing their statements & whatever being claimed through any medium.

Enjoy.....

I have some pictorial presentation and references of what Indians been doing throughout such an episode of losses, losses and only losses but unable to save their face.

*The bogged Indian Air Strike on Balakot*

It started with stolen pictures when Planet Earth has to intervene & expose,
then went on to share an under construction building which too was exposed,
then came the whole set of claim that IAF never cross LoC but used SOW,
then it was made before public that IAF couldn't reach the point due to heavy wind in opposite direction,
then came Indian DM openly/on the record relying on social media & random pictures,
then came the claim that India did not intend to cause casualties rather delivered the message,
then again there are casualties,
then Spice is a bomb which in fact not the case,
then claimed that Spice is a whole set of AI which goes inside building and eliminates targets without causing any damage to the structure/burns,
then came that this is not the place India hit,
then came that there were clouds on the that day and missing imagery,
then came that we did not attack infrastructure to minimize any possible civilian casualty and above all,
when all the foreign observers are brought to the claimed impact point, area & shown the infrastructure; they all are biased & sided with Pakistan or doesn't have the intellect capacity like India.
and now it is about that _*one Spice PGM did not leave the aircraft because of a drift in the inertial navigation system.*_

I have been saying this before and I will repeat that such kind of destruction & casualties in area as such which is not a Military Zone/Cantt, its not possible to hide anything especially in this day & age of Mobile Phones everywhere.

If any Indian wants to vote Modi, no issue but at-least spare us from all this in good faith and for the sake of humanity.

The list of Indian lies continues & I can recount very few here due to unlimited of them.

*PAF Operation Swift Retort as promised & Indian complaints*

PAF used jamming/EW tactics.
Anhinandan couldn't listen to ground control hence, went inside Pakistan.
Radar imagery shows Abhinandan in Mirpur but he was shot down in Bhimbir and arrested there.
AWACS were at changeover/Turn around shift but images? really.
IAF had the so-called electronic reading of PAF F-16 but interestingly, couldn't recognize their own MI-17V5 in Budgam.
Comms jammed/EW active that couldn't recognize their own MI-17 heli but recorded all this that too when AWACS were not there (Hindustan Times reported).
Pakistan recovered all 4 AAM of MIG-21 from its debris and there is no counter argument instead, IAF keeps repeating drama based upon lies.
They heard Pakistan Military comms but Abhinandan & IAF Ground Control remained totally deaf & found dumb.
Only two slides from IAF Radar being shared but excuse is made due to security reasons. How could it be a security reason when PAF fleet is complete as all F-16s are accounted for by foreign source.
It took almost 7 weeks for IAF to come up with what? Just couple of AWACS radar images & readings which more seems to be a good CGI work than real time data recording.
IAF found a piece of AMRAAM & claimed the downing which ended with that India only highlights the use of F-16 only.
Never knew of IAF could confirm that whether Abhinandan fired at F-16 or it was a ground fire. Neither B.S Dhanoa was sure nor their own briefings. (Check attachments in following post).
On the same day, one Indian channel reported that a Sukhoi SU-30 is shot down by F-16. The news vanished and Indians retracted that an F-16 was shot down by Sukhoi. Ok and later, it was actually MiG-21 that shot down F-16. I mean how much they want to shoot down at once while IAF getting shot down on that day one after another.
Interestingly, the then Chief Dhanoa put everything on Abhinandan and that ill fated MiG-21. When asked who shot down F-16, said Abhinandan. When asked, where is the proof, said with MiG-21 flight data recorder etc. When asked how to prove that, said MiG-21 is with Pakistanis. Really?
PAF displayed all the armaments/weapons including bullets on MiG-21 Bison intact and nothing fired. In return, Indian geniuses came with idea that these missiles are available on eBay.
It is literally takes such stamina to lie continuously but I will give it to Modi propaganda house for being consistent & turning Indian Military into a political office for election campaign.

Wait a minute, several things are Undecided.

*India started to blames for own failure*

Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without *crater damage *& eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
F-16 were used. US Mistake.
SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.
ABP Indian News Channel interviews witnesses, acknowledges the crash of SU-30 MKI on 27th Feb, 2019 in Sher Makri area of Bhawani B, IoK. Indian News channel mistake.











































































__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1184417197457887232








Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. | Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30 MKI being shot by PAF? Eyewitness from Indian side of LoC... | By Pakistan D


65K views, 2.5K likes, 262 loves, 161 comments, 834 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Pakistan Defence: Indian eyewitness discloses the other IAF plane loss on 27th February, 2019. Was it IAF SU-30...




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*(This video has been reported in mass by Indians and removed from almost all of YouTube accounts. Try to search by yourself.)*

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## Metal 0-1

I came, I saw, I came, I saw
I praise the Lord, then break the law
I take what's mine, then take some more
It rains, it pours, it rains, it pours
I came, I saw, I came, I saw
I praise the Lord, then break the law
I take what's mine, then take some more
It rains, it pours, it rains, it pours

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## ghazi52



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## White privilege

Looks like _Blinders _took @PanzerKiel claim about their non-participation in _Swift Retort _to heart and just flaunted their souvenir (Abhi's plane part) on screen.Panzer paaji jawab do hisab do.😁🤣

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## HRK

White privilege said:


> Looks like _Blinders _took @PanzerKiel claim about their non-participation in _Swift Retort _to heart and just flaunted their souvenir (Abhi's plane part) on screen.Panzer paaji jawab do hisab do.😁🤣


As far as I know [read it somewhere] ground based jammers were also used but there role is not exactly known I mean it is not clear they were used to jam communication of Indian Army or and radars or It was used against IAF ....

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## Raja Porus

HRK said:


> As far as I know [read it somewhere] ground based jammers were also used but there role is not exactly known I mean it is not clear they were used to jam communication of Indian Army or and radars or It was used against IAF ....


Kaiser Tufail mentioned them

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## Raja Porus

Pakistani F16-BLK15 from No.11 squadron"Arrows"(MM Alam's own) with Indian kill marks. From the first A2A missile kill in history and most kills in PAF to first BVR kill in subcontinent. This squadron has done it all.


Can anyone provide the total number of fighters downed by this sqn in both the wars?

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## White privilege

baqai said:


> And the 27th party starts with special programs
> 
> [media]


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## Cookie Monster

Trailer23 said:


> *a² + 2ab + b²*


"Yeh extra 2ab kahan se aaya?"

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## ghazi52



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## NA71



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## ghazi52

*TEA Was Fantastic 27 February 2019*

• PSL Final on 27 February 2022 
• AUS Coming to Pak on 27 Feb 2022. 

27 February is going to be history making day..........

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## Chakar The Great

This is my favourite thread. Brings back all the memories from 3 years ago. 


This thread honestly is an asset. So much can be learned from this thread. Live details, discussions, Indians reading but had no courage to reply. ISPR was extremely proactive, bringing the proofs one after the other. Indians were clueless.

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## Fawad alam

PanzerKiel said:


> Three days to go.


Cant wait more.


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## ghazi52



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## AeroEngineer



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## Pak Nationalist

Windjammer said:


> --------------


nuff said!


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## ghazi52



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## Trailer23

03 Years ago _Wg Cdr. Abhinandan_ stepped out of India which ultimately became the single biggest mistake of his life - which he regrets to this day.

For the rest of his life, forget 'bout stepping out of India. The poor chap won't even bother stepping out of his house on the 27th of Feb.

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## khansaheeb

Windjammer said:


> It's worth remembering that although Hassan Sadiqui ended up getting cautioned for his aggressive actions that day but the detremined warrior after launching his AMRAAM, maintained his course until the missile went Pitbull.


Cautioned with the highest decorations I hope.


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## Bleek

Kind of relevant...

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## Jaansher



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## arjunk

Exactly three years ago at this time, Operations Swift Retort's airstrikes commenced.

Bipin Rawat was given a rude shock as he sat on the toilet in the Brigade HQ commanding IT cell brigades.

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## Bleek




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## Aesterix

ISPR not coming slow.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497791673899921411

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## pkd

_2 Indian Fighter Ac_


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## Riz

While sanghis are celebrating another victory of India and IAF

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## Zarvan

PanzerKiel said:


> I can get you the rides, but of course it's not your legs which I desire...


Sir can you share the picture of SU 30 which was shot down by us

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## White privilege

White privilege said:


> Surprise, subha bakhair...!!! 😁🤣
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497649954302660609


He must have felt like a _Maxim _model, being photographed so much.I imagine there is still a truckload of pictures not released yet.

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## PanzerKiel



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## White privilege

Oh come on Mods, how is an Abhinandan picture _Unnecessary _to this thread??


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## Trailer23

I know most of you have seen these two videos I had edited last year for 27th Feb. Now I couldn't edit something new due to shortage of clips/footage, but thought may you'd like to view 'em again - a year later. It'll also gives the new Members a chance to see 'em for the first time.










​@GumNaam @TOPGUN @Vortex @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @Dil Pakistan

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## Salza

This is how news of Pakistani retiliation started coming up on Pakistani media. After 4.00 tone completely changed as

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## Imran Khan



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## PAKISTANFOREVER

3 years ago, a nation that is more than 7x bigger than it's foe and has the full backing of the West and Russia, could do nothing when it's foe shot down one if it's fighter jets.........

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## Kaleem.61

Martyrs of Balakot

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## Riz



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## Vortex

Alhamdulillah This day was a joy for me.

A very proud Hindu Indian neighbor is hiding from me since the 27th feb 2019 😎.

I thank Allah for this gift.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 819235



Such a serious profile image of yours and look at the content.

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## Trailer23

Vortex said:


> Alhamdulillah This day was a joy for me.


Single handedly the 2nd happiest day of my life. First being the birth of my daughters.

But based on my location, you guys can imagine what a treat it was for us Pakistanis (here).

I still remember the moment someone informed me about it - I couldn't control the joy.

I think I stopped at 3-4 methai stores on the way home, and everything was fresh out, for obvious reasons.

*Where were you (all) when you first found out on the morning of 27th Feb, 2019?*​

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## maverick1977

Trailer23 said:


> Single handedly the 2nd happiest day of my life. First being the birth of my daughters.
> 
> But based on my location, you guys can imagine what a treat it was for us Pakistanis (here).
> 
> I still remember the moment someone informed me about it - I couldn't control the joy.
> 
> I think I stopped at 3-4 methai stores on the way home, and everything was fresh out, for obvious reasons.
> 
> *Where were you (all) when you first found out on the morning of 27th Feb, 2019?*​



i found out during the operation with a text, “Game on” 
i found out details when the operation had just concluded.


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## ghazi52

On 3rd anniversary of Operation Swift Retort, PM reaffirms 'unwavering commitment' to national security​
Dawn.com
February 27, 2022 

On the third anniversary of Operation Swift Retort, Prime Minister Imran Khan said on Sunday that Pakistan was "resolute and unwavering" in its commitment to national security.

On February 27, 2019, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had shot down two Indian planes that had violated Pakistani airspace. One of the Indian pilots was captured by Pakistan, but was later handed over as a gesture of peace.

"I have always believed in conflict resolution through dialogue and diplomacy. That should never be taken as a sign of weakness," the premier said on Twitter.

"As we showed India on Feb 27, 2019, when it chose to attack us, our armed forces backed by the nation will respond to military aggression and prevail at all levels," he added.
"We are resolute and unwavering in our commitment to the security of our country and our nation," he said.
.........................................................






*Imran Khan

@ImranKhanPTI*

I have always believed in conflict resolution through dialogue & diplomacy. That should never be taken as a sign of weakness. As we showed India on 27Feb2019, when it chose to attack us, our armed forces backed by the nation will respond to mly aggression & prevail at all levels.
*
We are resolute & unwavering in our commitment to the security of our country and our nation.

1:28 AM · Feb 27, 2022·Twitter for Android*
.............................................
Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Director General Maj Gen Babar Iftikhar said today marked the third anniversary of Operation Swift Retort when Pakistan's armed forces gave a befitting response to "Indian failed misadventure".

"Achievements of PAF in shooting down two Indian fighter ac, detection of Indian submarine at sea by Pak Navy and resounding response at Line of Control by Pak Army are [a] testament to professionalism and determination of Pakistan armed forces for [the] defence of [the] motherland," he said.

"Not just weapons or numbers, but [the] resolve of a nation and [the] operational preparedness of armed forces defines success in face of adversity," he concluded.

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## Goenitz

Imran Khan said:


>


Totally abscent in Ukr-Rus thread!


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## blain2

Zarf said:


> "70's era Mig", is an excuse by the Indians which even most Pakistanis fall victim to.
> First, Indians are flying one of the most advanced, upgraded version of Migs. Correct me if I am wrong.
> second, F-16's were introduced in the late 70's. So they belongs to the era of 70's too.
> Third, Nobody asked them to send the Migs towards the LOC. It was their decision.


In addition the Bison is both BVR and HOBS equipped. Employment of Bison was a tactical Indian option because MKIs, M2Ks and Mig-29s were all rendered ineffective after the first exchange.

To the last poster, truth will come out when an aging IAF officer will reveal what really transpired and why the IAF came out of this contest all the poorer. Comparing Kargil to this is apples and oranges. Kargil required operational secrecy just like Operation Gibraltar, here there is no operational secrecy. 

We have lost combat aircraft in the past wars including the downing of the hapless Atlantique by a "Bison" in a non-war time incident yet we owned up to it. This time it did not happen regardless of the wishful thinking on the other side.

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## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497951044285779971

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## Riz

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497951044285779971


May they got all approvals at that time


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## Imran Khan

Goenitz said:


> Totally abscent in Ukr-Rus thread!


Dunya khatam hony wali hai or main yahan roti kha raha hoon 

Real time image

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## Ghessan

Imran Khan said:


> Dunya khatam hony wali hai or main yahan roti kha raha hoon
> 
> Real time image


Khan sahib, banda kisi ko sulah hi maar leta hey, akeley hi, oper se picture bhi laga gi.

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## Riz

Poem 
Kal bhi tea fantastic the ..Aj bhi tea fantastic ha 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497810289726742528


Imran Khan said:


> Dunya khatam hony wali hai or main yahan roti kha raha hoon
> 
> Real time image


Imran bhai bady arsay bad reha ho k ay ho kot lakh pat jail sa  welcome back sir

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## Imran Khan

Ghessan said:


> Khan sahib, banda kisi ko sulah hi maar leta hey, akeley hi, oper se picture bhi laga gi.


Kya kareen ustaad ji ap milty nhi



Riz said:


> Poem
> Kal bhi tea fantastic the ..Aj bhi tea fantastic ha
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497810289726742528
> 
> Imran bhai bady arsay bad reha ho k ay ho kot lakh pat jail sa  welcome back sir


Main kab se riha hoon bus thora busy or internet ka masla hai sir

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## Riz

Imran Khan said:


> Kya kareen ustaad ji ap milty nhi
> 
> 
> Main kab se riha hoon bus thora busy or internet ka masla hai sir


Chicken kadahi ki bajy Cup of tea ki pic lagaty , moka bhi tha aor dastoor bhi aor aj tea day bhi tha 😂


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## arjunk

Trailer23 said:


> *Where were you (all) when you first found out on the morning of 27th Feb, 2019?*


Lovesick and had a miserable case of Pnemonia. Woke up and saw initial reports in bed on my phone, instantly made my day better. The blackouts which followed for the days after were quite surreal.


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## Imran Khan

Mo


Riz said:


> Chicken kadahi ki bajy Cup of tea ki pic lagaty , moka bhi tha aor dastoor bhi aor aj tea day bhi tha 😂


Motton wo bhi boneless tha

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## SIPRA

Imran Khan said:


> Mo
> 
> Motton wo bhi boneless tha



Glass nazar naheen aaya.


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## NA71



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## PaklovesTurkiye

PanzerKiel said:


> View attachment 819235



Please I hope you haven't taken my that comment on different note...?

I have great deal of *respect* for you and your *writing* on *War strategies* 

Btw, When are you coming to Karachi to have Biryani and Halem?

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## Kraetoz

__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=3123992087857996&id=2071248776465671

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## ghazi52

....




...................

...
Shaheen Ka Imaan....Allah O Akbar!!
Dekha apna anjaam .....Allah O Akbar!!

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## ghazi52

///




...............

Somewhere in Lahore, free tea is being served to celebrate the #SurpriseDay. Who ever wants an other fantastic tea, just cross our border. 
....

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## Iceman2

is this the one @PanzerKiel

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## Zarvan

Imran Khan words "Pakistan retaliate karnay ka sochay ga nahi Pakistan retaliate karay ga" will be quoted for decades to come just like Ayub Khan 1965 speech.

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## GriffinsRule

Iceman2 said:


> View attachment 819411
> is this the one @PanzerKiel


Mig-27

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## Pak Nationalist

Salza said:


> This is how news of Pakistani retiliation started coming up on Pakistani media. After 4.00 tone completely changed as


Interesting that they cite the Indian media's report that two pilots have died in the crash. The crash site though is said to be Budgam where the Mi17 crashed.


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## Raja Porus

Manstein says NO.

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## untitled

Iceman2 said:


> View attachment 819411
> is this the one @PanzerKiel





GriffinsRule said:


> Mig-27


A gallery consisting of a MiG-27 wreck, MiG-21 parts and boosters from an H-4

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## ghazi52

>>>>>>>>>>>>

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498162649393213445

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## Ghessan

ghazi52 said:


> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498162649393213445



this man is continuously jumping like a popcorn so irritating.

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## SQ8

ghazi52 said:


> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498162649393213445


When you have to talk on a serious subject and the phajjay ke paye kick in….


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## Trailer23

A week late, but thought i'd share with you all since on one else had posted it (here)...





​@araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @LeGenD @SQ8 @waz @Windjammer @The Eagle @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox 1 @FuturePAF @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @HAIDER @iLION12345_1 @mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @Nomad40 @Path-Finder @Rafi @Riz @SABRE @Stealth @StormBreaker @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @Viper27 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @Maarkhoor @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007

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## The Eagle



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## Raider 21

The Eagle said:


> View attachment 820754


The Pakistani video would be similar but in Urdu....

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## StormBreaker

Trailer23 said:


> A week late, but thought i'd share with you all since on one else had posted it (here)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​@araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @LeGenD @SQ8 @waz @Windjammer @The Eagle @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox 1 @FuturePAF @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @HAIDER @iLION12345_1 @mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @Nomad40 @Path-Finder @Rafi @Riz @SABRE @Stealth @StormBreaker @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @Viper27 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @Maarkhoor @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007


Ye list choti pe choti hoe jarai hai ? Khairiat ?


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## Trailer23

StormBreaker said:


> Ye list choti pe choti hoe jarai hai ? Khairiat ?


I don't tag everything to everyone.

There are certain Members that have been Banned (for good), so no reason to keep tagging a dead stick.

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## StormBreaker

The Eagle said:


> View attachment 820754


They should install coconuts in place of chaff, Atleast they would do some religious act before crashing and dying.

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## Trailer23

Trailer23 said:


> A week late, but thought i'd share with you all since on one else had posted it (here)...


​
Who is this



Host  ?

What the hell is he wearing at the Base  ?

What's up with his jeans? 'cause his legs seems to distant from one another ...




Why is he using hand gestures as if he's rapping like a white boy [Time - 01:30]  ?

Is this truly the best we could do? Getting ARY Muzik rejects to cover the PAF?

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## The Eagle

Trailer23 said:


> ​
> Who is this
> View attachment 820878
> Host  ?
> 
> What the hell is he wearing at the Base  ?
> 
> What's up with his jeans? 'cause his legs seems to distant from one another ...
> 
> View attachment 820879​
> Why is he using hand gestures as if he's rapping like a white boy [Time - 01:30]  ?
> 
> Is this truly the best we could do? Getting ARY Muzik rejects to cover the PAF?



Some over hyped youth blood I think. Some of us really feel good by looking a bit ignorant or at-least appear strong. No more humble, educated posturing and pros nowadays.


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## Trailer23

The Eagle said:


> Some over hyped youth blood I think. Some of us really feel good by looking a bit ignorant or at-least appear strong. *No more humble, educated posturing and pros nowadays.*


I would've preferred the _khatoon_...

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## Raider 21

Trailer23 said:


> A week late, but thought i'd share with you all since on one else had posted it (here)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​@araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @LeGenD @SQ8 @waz @Windjammer @The Eagle @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox 1 @FuturePAF @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @HAIDER @iLION12345_1 @mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @Nomad40 @Path-Finder @Rafi @Riz @SABRE @Stealth @StormBreaker @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @Viper27 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @Maarkhoor @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007


Only decent part is that there were no commercials on side displays. Pathetic host and repetitive stuff from pilots. It will go on for another 50 Surprise Day events. What was nice is that they showed the buildings and history room.


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## jk007

ghazi52 said:


> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498162649393213445



*Not to troll you guys.....*

but Pak PM saying that “Pakistan will not only think of retaliation… Pakistan WILL retaliate! ~ Prime Minister Imran Khan"

IAF crossing the border on purpose, *despite *the above message is enough for lot of us. IAF jets crossed into Pak territory (on purpose) after ~50 years??

So, the more you guys keep posting this message, the more it is giving different (contrary to your expectations) message to us.

I am very well aware that you cheer other events of those days......no need to repeat them.


----------



## Nomad40

Trailer23 said:


> ​
> Who is this
> 
> View attachment 820878
> Host  ?
> 
> What the hell is he wearing at the Base  ?
> 
> What's up with his jeans? 'cause his legs seems to distant from one another ...
> 
> View attachment 820879​
> Why is he using hand gestures as if he's rapping like a white boy [Time - 01:30]  ?
> 
> Is this truly the best we could do? Getting ARY Muzik rejects to cover the PAF?


They look Like Brooklyn special Timmies on his feet, he has tried to imitate a Canadian tuxedo (no one in Canada wears them). He was garbing and touching very passionately and surely had had his moment with the bird but all things aside he was somewhat fluent. Saw some patches and the history room was interesting to watch......This is one of the better AV-quality documentaries.


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## The Eagle

jk007 said:


> *Not to troll you guys.....*
> 
> but Pak PM saying that “Pakistan will not only think of retaliation… Pakistan WILL retaliate! ~ Prime Minister Imran Khan"
> 
> IAF crossing the border on purpose, *despite *the above message is enough for lot of us. IAF jets crossed into Pak territory (on purpose) after ~50 years??
> 
> So, the more you guys keep posting this message, the more it is giving different (contrary to your expectations) message to us.
> 
> I am very well aware that you cheer other events of those days......no need to repeat them.



Is this kind of Indian thinking, meant to be superiority or you just post it individually because, it sounds funny.

I am not trolling you but what you say is giving a contrary message that IAF is happy with getting shot down by PAF and still mentioning the event for credibility.

I am very well aware that Indian planned cheering of those days was initially shadowed due to media and Modi campaign and later came to realization as what really happened.

So India apparently, will keep acting big at home, boast Modi 56" thumping, winning election while Indian military getting the beating before the world.


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## Trango Towers

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497951044285779971


Had they given 9 clearances India would not have looked at Pakistan for 50 years

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## Trailer23

jk007 said:


> *Not to troll you guys.....*
> 
> but Pak PM saying that “Pakistan will not only think of retaliation… Pakistan WILL retaliate! ~ Prime Minister Imran Khan"
> 
> IAF crossing the border on purpose, *despite *the above message is enough for lot of us. IAF jets crossed into Pak territory (on purpose) after ~50 years??
> 
> So, the more you guys keep posting this message, the more it is giving different (contrary to your expectations) message to us.
> 
> I am very well aware that you cheer other events of those days......no need to repeat them.


What an excellent point you've raised. Good on you.

Only difference is that PMIK said that ONCE. Its only different Media & Official Government outlets keep repeating those words.

I do want to know when your War mongering Channels with has-beens like GD Bakhshi & Maj. Guber Arya stop repeating that they're gonna teach Pakistan a lesson & that they'll take Kashmir & Gilgit/Baltistan back & so on. People at your end seem to do on regular basis throughout the year.

There is no need for them to repeat something that they know full well will never happen. Those nukes we have in our backyard aren't reserved for the day Mod! (actually) loses his virginity.

Here's hoping GD Bakhshi has a stroke on LIVE TV some day - just to give us another reason to cheer, or enjoy. Now that's good TV.

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## Windjammer

jk007 said:


> *Not to troll you guys.....*
> 
> but Pak PM saying that “Pakistan will not only think of retaliation… Pakistan WILL retaliate! ~ Prime Minister Imran Khan"
> 
> IAF crossing the border on purpose, *despite *the above message is enough for lot of us. IAF jets crossed into Pak territory (on purpose) after ~50 years??
> 
> So, the more you guys keep posting this message, the more it is giving different (contrary to your expectations) message to us.
> 
> I am very well aware that you cheer other events of those days......no need to repeat them.


Yes, IAF attempted their misadventure convinced that while India will hype up it's actions like it did with the earlier Leopard urine induced drama, Pakistan will playdown the loss of a few trees and Modi will shine like a new penny.....little did India expected such a daring and instant reply.
After realising that the IAF can not deliver, Modi resorted to threatening with missile strikes.....only to get another rude awakening. 
After PAF visited targets in IOK and shot down Indian aircraft.....what response did India give......that is the point any sane minded would ponder.

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## jk007

The Eagle said:


> Is this kind of Indian thinking, meant to be superiority or you just post it individually because, it sounds funny.
> 
> I am not trolling you but what you say is giving a contrary message that IAF is happy with getting shot down by PAF and still mentioning the event for credibility.
> 
> I am very well aware that Indian planned cheering of those days was initially shadowed due to media and Modi campaign and later came to realization as what really happened.
> 
> So India apparently, will keep acting big at home, boast Modi 56" thumping, winning election while Indian military getting the beating before the world.



Sir - there is no superiority thing here. 

Please try to think as an Indian would and you will get most of answers for your own questions.

Please note that Indians are no fools to keep voting for Modi. There is a reason behind him being elected. No point writing further. 

Yourself & many other pakistanis (unfortunately) have very distorted view of India. Nothing can correct you there, as you have neither interest nor energy / time to pursue truth.

My intention is not to troll. My last post on this topic, as we have beaten this to death many times already.



Windjammer said:


> Yes, IAF attempted their misadventure convinced that while India will hype up it's actions like it did with the earlier Leopard urine induced drama, Pakistan will playdown the loss of a few trees and Modi will shine like a new penny.....little did India expected such a daring and instant reply.
> After realising that the IAF can not deliver, Modi resorted to threatening with missile strikes.....only to get another rude awakening.
> After PAF visited targets in IOK and shot down Indian aircraft.....what response did India give......that is the point any sane minded would ponder.



As I said, we (Indians) have our points to cheer and be proud about and you (pakistanis) have your points to cheer and be proud about.
We are even proud of Abhinandan as well....he did his duty with extreme courage.

Let's leave it there. We have beaten all this to death many times.


----------



## The Eagle

jk007 said:


> Please try to think as an Indian would and you will get most of answers for your own questions



My friend! Pakistanis think their own way being consistent with what will have to do. Pakistanis don't think a lot that what will adversary do and be confused.




jk007 said:


> Please note that Indians are no fools to keep voting for Modi. There is a reason behind him being elected. No point writing further.



Seen the premise and intelligence to vote Modi.... If hadn't it been about superiority through Hindutva and RSS ideology running BJP.




jk007 said:


> Yourself & many other pakistanis (unfortunately) have very distorted view of India. Nothing can correct you there, as you have neither interest nor energy / time to pursue truth.



As I said, you can't just claim your side being truth. You will have to then cooperate with other side for more truth. I can be misinformed as I don't know the local street culture, maps etc of India but, the view is already seen by world. You just disrespected me of low on energy and never interested to pursue the truth but you know what, this is exactly how I know India. You just introduced yourself. The subject of this thread alone is the testimony to Pakistan resolve and promise to not to cross the line. It's just you, as you just proved yourself, merely ignoring the fact.




jk007 said:


> My intention is not to troll. My last post on this topic, as we have beaten this to death many times already.



Despite of your disrespectful behaviour and trolling attempt, you have the audacity to speak like you are done? No. It's not like that. I will keep you out of this thread so that you can blame yourself for this moment. You haven't beaten this to death because on that day, it was PAF like the last man standing.

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## Path-Finder



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## Windjammer

The Sukhoi Slayer in his favourite office.

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## WinterFangs

comment section is full off f-16 Was downed, why do people still believe this crap


----------



## SQ8

WinterFangs said:


> comment section is full off f-16 Was downed, why do people still believe this crap


They come from a country where the majority prefer fiction over facts

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## Madni Bappa

WinterFangs said:


> comment section is full off f-16 Was downed, why do people still believe this crap


Ye bechara bhens k agey been baja ra hai.

In these instances people get a glimpse of what Indians are really like. Other than their "Incredible India" adverts

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## ghazi52

...............
"VIPER 606" the Su-30 killer




Yaad tu aati hogi ....
.





.................

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## Windjammer

Some of the Delta Drivers who visited Indian Occupied Kashmir without a Visa.

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## Titanium100

Trailer23 said:


> A week late, but thought i'd share with you all since on one else had posted it (here)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​@araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @LeGenD @SQ8 @waz @Windjammer @The Eagle @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox 1 @FuturePAF @GriffinsRule @GumNaam @HRK @HAIDER @iLION12345_1 @mingle @Mrc @mshan44 @NA71 @Nomad40 @Path-Finder @Rafi @Riz @SABRE @Stealth @StormBreaker @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @Viper27 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @Maarkhoor @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007



Quite good docu


----------



## Trailer23

ghazi52 said:


> ...............
> "VIPER 606" the Su-30 killer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yaad tu aati hogi ....
> .
> 
> View attachment 824139
> 
> .................


That's nice, but next time we'll aim for the Rafale. 

Why settle for 2nd Best (Su-30MKi) when you can bang the Prom Queen... 

IAF can then add the Rafale to their long list of Aircraft(s) down.

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## Raja Porus

Keep your aircraft out of my goddam airspace.

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## White privilege

ghazi52 said:


> ...............
> "VIPER 606" the Su-30 killer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yaad tu aati hogi ....
> .
> 
> View attachment 824139
> 
> .................


Modi: _Cheen le muz se hafija mera...._
😄😁


----------



## Trailer23

Ghessan said:


> what are you doing man, in F-16 thread you post this... whats cooking???
> View attachment 828387

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## Ghessan

Trailer23 said:


> View attachment 828433​


Yeah, PDF did its part well.


----------



## Mirzali Khan

stop bumping this thread looool

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## Primus

jus_chillin said:


> stop bumping this thread looool


The indians do it about the atlantique incident, we will do it about this. 

Suck it indians

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## Bleek

Huffal said:


> The indians do it about the atlantique incident, we will do it about this.
> 
> Suck it indians


Do we have an atlantique thread


----------



## Primus

Bleek said:


> Do we have an atlantique thread


Im not too sure


----------



## Trailer23

To date - this delusional group of losers think of Abhi-Nando's as the Hero who took down the mighty Viper.






I personally think the fast approaching






might have to disagree with you.

If that wasn't the case, i'm pretty certain that shinner on the right eye may have to disagree with you.


*LOOK AT THAT !!!*






*#LaatPower😆 *​

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## Trailer23

Oh Dear, looks like a certain *FalconSlayer* got upset with Abhi-Nandos image with the shinner & started his toilet talk.

& why would Maj. Ghafoor accept anything after a decade? Hmmm. We got all 4 of your R-73 Missiles, jack@$$ & we displayed them for the World to see.

Abhi-Nandos was good of a Trophy as Flt Lt. Kambampati Nachiketa who coincidently was shot down too? By the way, how many kills have you clowns scored in recent years? Oh yeah, I forgot - you guys took down a Mi-17 (make that 2 Mi-17's - but i'll come to that in a bit).





*Wha-ji-wa. Shakal tou daikho. Abay ye Pilot ka coverall hai ya koi Municipality Garbage Collector ka uniform?*​
Yeah, PAF does work 9to5 which is why you thought you'd take advantage of coming in after what 40 Years - in the dark.

*Q.* If Pakistan works on 9to5, you lot must be taking the graveyard shift 'cause we came in after 9am & bombed the sh!t outta you. What the *F* were you'll doin' that morning other than jerking off on your accomplishments the earlier nite. I recommend you use a moist towel (FalconSlayers) & use apicture of your maa-ji as a reference.

As for your Supersonic tricycle missile - we got the apology outta you. Kya howa - Kapen Tang rahe theen? You guys can't even fire missile properly. Wanna see the footage of ours that impacted near your Base? By the way, you claim that ya'll killed 350 Terrorist, but too date there is no official word or evidence from your side. Sorry it was hard to keep up as the figures were changing (like your Gender) every hour.

Bajwa ke taangoon ke fikr na kar, bhar'way - *ye bata kay Bipin ke taangey theen jab uus ko Mi-17 say nikala tha?* Ahhh Mi-17 - the Indian Flying Coffin pt. 2.

Now run a long little boy...and take the time out to witness your mighty Khusra Air Force achievements in a single year.

*28 January:* Jaguar crashed shortly after takeoff in Uttar Pradesh.

*01 February:* A Mirage 2000 crashed while on an acceptance sortie after being upgraded by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) killing both Pilots.

*12 February:* A MiG-27 crashed at the Pokhran firing range.

*19 February:* Two Hawk aircraft of Surya Kiran aerobatic team crashed after hitting each other mid-air during a rehearsal for the AeroIndia Show. One of the pilots was killed in the accident.

*27 February:* Pakistan shot down one MiG-21 Bison during an aerial fight after India violated the airspace.

*27 February:* a Mi-17 chopper was also downed in Budgam District in Indian Occupied Kashmir killing all six on board.

*08 March:* A MiG-21 (Bison) crashed near Bikaner, western Rajasthan, due to a Bird strike, the pilot ejected safely.

*31 March:* A MiG-27 (UPG) crashed in Sirohi, Rajasthan, the pilot ejected safely.

*03 June:* An-32 crashed in Arunachal Pradesh. All 13 declared dead.

*08 August:* Su-30Mki crash in Tezpur. Both pilots ejected safely.

*16 November:* MiG-29K crashed in Goa soon after it took off for a training mission. Both the pilots managed to eject safely from the aircraft.

Don't worry - I didn't add the Su-30MKi from 27th Feb that Wg Cdr. Hasan Siddiqui took out. I know it just brings tears to your eyes, but you should be used to it by now.

By the way FalconSlayer, can I just call you pussy - it kinda suits your personality - not that you have much. As I was saying, it'll be a whole lot fun if you just come out & play with the Big Boys of [PDF]. I'm sure your your account works just fine.

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## Trailer23

*#OnePunchMan* - more like _"2 thapaŕ kay laikh hijŕa"_.
Don't worry - i've actually got ISPR on speed-dial. Ask some of my hommies here on *[PDF]*.

Don't worry about me, focus more on your & all your homo-buddies on



and their awesome jobs. Not a single one of you fags are related to Military Defence.

Hope you all have a great careers in your dead-end jobs - never seen an actual aircraft (probably 'cause never been issued a Passport).




*Call Center





*
*"Goud Marning mAdum, this is OnePunc..., I mean Surindra-para spacking. Waat is yaar prablum?"*​
*#sachincba* - Cute Avatar



. Is that your mom?
Let me guess, you couldn't nail a 2-dollar wh0re, but that's probably because your mom didn't have a break for a 50.

*-----*​
Daikh lo. *Aik* bunda he tum sab ko kaboo kar-laita hai. Just proves to show how you are treated outside your grand Country  .

Just remember...

Pakistani Soldiers that die in Combat are actual Martyrs/Shaheed.

Is death by suicide also classified as a 'Martyr' in Baharat-land? Ooops. Sorry lads.

You guys usually just get beaten up from both sides.




Don't forget to pack your condemns...., I mean don't forget to pick up your *Vir Chakra* on your way out 😆 .

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## Primus

wut

@Trailer23


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## Trailer23

Huffal said:


> wut
> 
> @Trailer23


Just a lil' Screenshot WAR messages going on between myself & a few Gangus from a Planet that hasn't been discovered yet.

I take it that you've never heard of



. Count your blessings.

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## Trailer23

@Sudarshan 
Tell *#**FalconSlayer*, _"Jal kyu rahay ho. Boo yahan tak arahe hai"._

_



_​

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## Primus

Trailer23 said:


> Just a lil' Screenshot WAR messages going on between myself & a few Gangus from a Planet that hasn't been discovered yet.
> 
> I take it that you've never heard of
> View attachment 834864
> . Count your blessings.


No i havent heard of ***... 

Well.... All the best to you. O7


----------



## Trailer23

Uff Uff Uff - Big Bad *#Lonewolf* of



probably didn't like what I said.

Alriiiight, i'll take it back - NOT.

I am in a Neutral Country, you f#*k... I asked earlier, _"Where're your hommies?"_

Here are some screengrabs from one of my recent videos









​Take a closer look.

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## Trailer23

This is the latest. Its *NOT *3-Years old...






Ab kya karey? These are the Champions we have to deal with.

I suppose they must've been in cryogenic tank when this admission took place by their own *Air Chief R.K.S Bhosra*.

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## Stealth



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## Psychiatrist Monica Chib

Stealth said:


> View attachment 839348



It is as true as your second aircraft shot down theory.


----------



## Primus

Starstreak said:


> I am still desperate to know what happened to doosra banda and Yahoodi Pilot


Just as i am desperate to understand where is shazaz ud din 🤣


----------



## Trailer23

Starstreak said:


> I am still desperate to know what happened to doosra banda and Yahoodi Pilot


I think your desperation outta be exhausted on how the hell did you shoot down your own Mi-17 & killing 6-7 Officers in the process.

Atleast THAT can't be ruled as a _myth_.

What do you think?

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## Trailer23

Starstreak said:


> I agree with you that we lost our Mi17 due to our own mistake . No doubts there , just as US shot down it's own F16s and british tornados with Patriot missiles in the iraq war .
> We've learnt our lesson and are much better prepared now especially with the induction of akash missiles ( 30km range ) ,MRSAM missiles ( 100km range) and S400. We are creating a integrated air defence network


Learnt your lessons, huh.

Funny, the BrahMos landing in our backyard doesn't seem much of a lesson rather than incompetence. Seems like your Battery Commanders seem to have a itchy trigger finger. Atleast we got 'A Public Apology' - all is well. Even if it came after 48hrs.

Now, the whole intent of it being deliberate by the General Public is cute, but we'll go with the Official Apology.

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## Stealth

Starstreak said:


> Ofcourse they won't admit it was deliberate ! Common sense bruh !
> Still it atleast tested your air defence
> 
> 
> Last time i checked pakistan's per capita income was lower than india's


 Ya even that our nation is better in mostly index related to humans lol either poverty, women protection, rape cases, sanitation toilets, new born deaths, stunted growth and so on… put that per capita in ur *** 😂

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## Stealth

Starstreak said:


> As if pakistan is any better ? Are you really in a position to lecture us on these pointers especially when your country is going through a massive turmoil . I used to think that pakistanis were smart ,but you clearly aren't .



And we never think you guys are even humans lol thats why we dont give a shit about what you think lol a nation after getting banged raped in the broad day light in front of the world from a 5 times smaller force with the following figure 40 CRF, 1 POW, 2 fighter jets shot down, 1 heli, 5 crew members and military installation bombed by the opponent but marked this battle as a victory 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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## Trailer23

Starstreak said:


> Ofcourse they won't admit it was deliberate ! Common sense bruh !
> Still it atleast tested your air defence
> 
> 
> Last time i checked pakistan's per capita income was lower than india's


The last time you guys tested our Air Defense - you lost some lads in the process. Only difference is this time you ADMITTED to a mistake.

By the way, has it ever crossed your mind that we played you. Think about it. Let the idea sink in when your head hits the pillow tonite.

The 27th of Feb. still stings to this day, doesn't it. Is it because in recent times post Kargil - we got the last laugh.

I'm sure you're all dying to somehow get back in some manner. Till that day - go fish.

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## JX-1

Trailer23 said:


> This is the latest. Its *NOT *3-Years old...
> 
> View attachment 835633
> 
> 
> Ab kya karey? These are the Champions we have to deal with.
> 
> I suppose they must've been in cryogenic tank when this admission took place by their own *Air Chief R.K.S Bhosra*.


Even with all the Indian Wikipedia editors who have no life outside of editing Pakistan related pages, their delusions are still considered outlandish.

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## Trailer23

JX-1 said:


> ...their delusions are still considered outlandish.


More like wet-dreams.

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## Trailer23

@Starstreak - well that didn't last too long.




Try



. Over there you can be a God with your kind of mindset.

...and don't take it personal. They don't allow us on their Forum either  .

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## Princeps Senatus

Was Abhinandan carrying EL/L-8222? It would be in the wreckage, so we should know.

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## Signalian

Princeps Senatus said:


> Was Abhinandan carrying EL/L-8222? It would be in the wreckage, so we should know.


If his Mig-21 was equipped with Elta jammer then Indians have single handedly disgraced Israeli systems and Russian aircrafts.

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## Goritoes

Oh i miss this thread, back in 2019 Feb it was fun


----------



## Trailer23

@avenuepark57 






*...now go to Page 1*​

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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## Primus

@Lava820 

Your proof of the supposed f16 crash site? Its been a month since you claimed you had it

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## ghazi52

.,.,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558056754490970112

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## Raja Porus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559139028405891072

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## White privilege

Raja Porus said:


> View attachment 870941
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559139028405891072

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## Bin Laden

White privilege said:


> View attachment 870975


Funny thing they ordered 12 to fill in for the 11 lost. I wonder why +1 👀

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## Maea

Bin Laden said:


> Funny thing they ordered 12 to fill in for the 11 lost. I wonder why +1 👀


 We all know why.

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## Foinikas

Why do Indians celebrate a shot down pilot who was captured,as a hero? He didn't shoot down an enemy aircraft,he didn't die when he was shot down,he was treated nicely as a POW and returned soon. And yet the Indians treat him like a hero and superstar. What the f?

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## PakFactor

Foinikas said:


> Why do Indians celebrate a shot down pilot who was captured,as a hero? He didn't shoot down an enemy aircraft,he didn't die when he was shot down,he was treated nicely as a POW and returned soon. And yet the Indians treat him like a hero and superstar. What the f?



Pajeet do Pajeet things

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Why do Indians celebrate a shot down pilot who was captured,as a hero? He didn't shoot down an enemy aircraft,he didn't die when he was shot down,he was treated nicely as a POW and returned soon. And yet the Indians treat him like a hero and superstar. What the f?


Face saving 

Its also why they made up the story of COAS and some politician apparently being scared of an Indian retaliation, that's why they returned him. 

Its bad enough for them to crash most of their jets during standard sorties, but to lose one to enemy fire, now thats bad. The population wont eat it up well.

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## Valiant

Foinikas said:


> Why do Indians celebrate a shot down pilot who was captured,as a hero? He didn't shoot down an enemy aircraft,he didn't die when he was shot down,he was treated nicely as a POW and returned soon. And yet the Indians treat him like a hero and superstar. What the f?



Moving goalposts, controlling the narrative and changing perceptions of their gullible populous

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## Trailer23

Comedy Times..., I mean *Hindustan Times* reports:

*IAF set to retire Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21 squadron on September 30*

Wing Commander (now Group Captain) Abhinandan Varthaman, who was awarded Vir Chakra for shooting down a Pakistani F-16 combat aircraft [Buhahahahahaha*hahahahahaha.....*] during a dogfight over the Line of Control on February 27, 2019, was part of the squadron at the time.

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## Bleek

Foinikas said:


> Why do Indians celebrate a shot down pilot who was captured,as a hero? He didn't shoot down an enemy aircraft,he didn't die when he was shot down,he was treated nicely as a POW and returned soon. And yet the Indians treat him like a hero and superstar. What the f?


Morale boosting, same reason for the F-16 claims.

Having high morale and confidence is a very important part of war, and Indian history doesn't have much to cling to for boosting their morale apart from a joint Bangladesh victory. 

The facist hate for Muslims combined with lies about their superior military performance against Pakistan gives them that morale and motivation.

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## Sifar zero

arjunk said:


> Exactly three years ago at this time, Operations Swift Retort's airstrikes commenced.
> 
> Bipin Rawat was given a rude shock as he sat on the toilet in the Brigade HQ commanding IT cell brigades.


Was Bipin Rawat actually at the Brigade HQ when we bombed it??

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## Bossman

Sifar zero said:


> Was Bipin Rawat actually at the Brigade HQ when we bombed it??


He was visiting

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## Windjammer

Sifar zero said:


> Was Bipin Rawat actually at the Brigade HQ when we bombed it??


Yes he was apparently taking a nap. 
After being rudely awakened, he later refused to fly to Delhi and preferred to travel by train.

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## Trango Towers

Windjammer said:


> Yes he was apparently taking a nap.
> After being rudely awakened, he later refused to fly to Delhi and preferred to travel by train.


Those noisy lot in the PAF


----------



## Trailer23

Windjammer said:


> Yes he was apparently taking a nap.
> After being rudely awakened, he later refused to fly to Delhi and preferred to travel by train.


A lotta good that did.

Not so distant in the future he chose another mode of Transport. Didn't end well that time around.

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## GriffinsRule

Trailer23 said:


> A lotta good that did.
> 
> Not so distant in the future he chose another mode of Transport. Didn't end well that time around.


Time of death is set for all of us to be fair.

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## ghazi52

So soon, he needs another trip to Pakistan for a cup of tea...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571858981664051202

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## Ghessan

ghazi52 said:


> So soon, he needs another trip to Pakistan for a cup of tea...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571858981664051202


There probably is an urge with LCA underneath brewing in his stomach saying: "lets take another trip, this time i will بینڈ بجا دوں گا" no wonder بجے گی تو ضرور


----------



## Trango Towers

ghazi52 said:


> So soon, he needs another trip to Pakistan for a cup of tea...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571858981664051202


From bisons to tejas...the bad luck if this squadron continues

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## K_Bin_W

Trango Towers said:


> From bisons to tejas...the bad luck if this squadron continues


Hehe ... aasman say gira kahjoor pay atka.

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## PakFactor

ghazi52 said:


> So soon, he needs another trip to Pakistan for a cup of tea...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571858981664051202



Lol, perfect post for today.
I wonder if a samosa combined with chai tastes good.

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## aviator_fan

PakFactor said:


> Lol, perfect post for today.
> I wonder if a samosa combined with chai tastes good.


Next is they will deploy this squadron to Madras or some place in Central India where they can fly it like an airliner and make sure it doesn't interfere with combat operations with the rest of the air force

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## PakFactor

aviator_fan said:


> Next is they will deploy this squadron to Madras or some place in Central India where they can fly it like an airliner and make sure it doesn't interfere with combat operations with the rest of the air force



Lol, as long it's on the flatbed, it's all good and safe.

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## SaadH

Foinikas said:


> Why do Indians celebrate a shot down pilot who was captured,as a hero? He didn't shoot down an enemy aircraft,he didn't die when he was shot down,he was treated nicely as a POW and returned soon. And yet the Indians treat him like a hero and superstar. What the f?


Actually his face was bashed in by locals.


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## Reichmarshal

SaadH said:


> Actually his face was bashed in by locals.


After the baba tricked him into thinking he landed in IOK on which nando shouted jai hind on which the baba famously said " teri moa ne $%#@". N the rest is history

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## Talon

Bhai wo su30 crash wali picture to post kr do 😬 @PanzerKiel

#AchaSorry

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## siegecrossbow

Reichmarshal said:


> After the baba tricked him into thinking he landed in IOK on which nando shouted jai hind on which the baba famously said " teri moa ne $%#@". N the rest is history



He seriously said Jai Hind? That sounds made up.


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## HRK

siegecrossbow said:


> He seriously said Jai Hind? That sounds made up.


yaap he was tricked by the old man by telling that he crashed at the Indian side, hearing this he shouted the Indian National slogan. 

This was one the very first reports came just after sometime of the incident via videos of social media posted by the residents of that area; in one such video fresh blood of the Indian Pilot on the cloths of that old man was visible, so the chances of the cooking up the story is minimum.

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.

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## Goritoes

Talon said:


> Bhai wo su30 crash wali picture to post kr do 😬 @PanzerKiel
> 
> #AchaSorry


Kyun bechare @PanzerKiel bhai ke peeche vigo lagwa rahe ho yaar, ek hi active duty Fauji reh gaya PDF pe... Baqi tu retirement plan le ker foreign bhaag rahe hain lol

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## Laser

Goritoes said:


> Kyun bechare @PanzerKiel bhai ke peeche vigo lagwa rahe ho yaar, ek hi active duty Fauji reh gaya PDF pe... Baqi tu retirement plan le ker foreign bhaag rahe hain lol


1 baat mujhe samjh nai aati ye sb siyasi aur Foji Europe bhag rahe hain aur udher russia europe k shath jang ki tayari kr raha hai. In Sha Allah in ka tamam pesa bhi doob jaye ga. aur in ki nasal bhi khatam ho jaye gi.


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## Goritoes

Laser said:


> 1 baat mujhe samjh nai aati ye sb siyasi aur Foji Europe bhag rahe hain aur udher russia europe k shath jang ki tayari kr raha hai. In Sha Allah in ka tamam pesa bhi doob jaye ga. aur in ki nasal bhi khatam ho jaye gi.


Allah let people do corruption and oppress until he pull the strings, no matter which Wardi you wear and how many badges you have in your shoulders, when Allah ki lathi swings they all will falls flat. I can't wait to see the time when Awam can see their scam and stop calling them Mujahids or other things, because the right title for them is thugs and Daku.

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## Laser

i am not against any one, i don't know but i really love Pakistan and i don't want it to fall like 71 once again, and if things going like this which is happening now really sad. no words to explain. (Merei english bahut buri hai is liye me aksar urdu me likhta hoon) Sorry

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## VkdIndian

PakFactor said:


> I wonder if a samosa combined with chai tastes good.


It must be lovely. Especially when served by someone with shaky legs. 😜

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## PakFactor

VkdIndian said:


> It must be lovely. Especially when served by someone with shaky legs. 😜



Right now, it's your external affair minister walking around with a pound of curry in his underwear and showing the Americans a picture he keeps in his wallet of the AMRAAM that was put up the Indians' collective behind.

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## VkdIndian

PakFactor said:


> Right now, it's your external affair minister


Atleast you agree about the taste of Chai+Samosa when served with shaky legs. That must be the reason you changed track.

EAM Jaishankar’s assertions can be interpreted based on the lens one is looking through. One lens sees curry. The other lens sees an EAM demanding firmly that US back down from this dole to Pakistan while being right on the US soil. The posture, tone, timing and place reek of nothing else but authority.

On a side note, try Chai+Samosa even without shaky legs. It is yum.


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## Laser

PakFactor said:


> Right now, it's your external affair minister walking around with a pound of curry in his underwear and showing the Americans a picture he keeps in his wallet of the AMRAAM that was put up the Indians' collective behind.


Peechay to Dekho, Peechay

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## PakFactor

VkdIndian said:


> Atleast you agree about the taste of Chai+Samosa when served with shaky legs. That must be the reason you changed track.
> 
> EAM Jaishankar’s assertions can be interpreted based on the lens one is looking through. One lens sees curry. The other lens sees an EAM demanding firmly that US back down from this dole to Pakistan while being right on the US soil. The posture, tone, timing and place reek of nothing else but authority.
> 
> On a side note, try Chai+Samosa even without shaky legs. It is yum.



Whatever you want to imagine, the world is yours, Lol.

How should we know? Let's ask Abhinandan if he has the inside scoop after being shot down and whipped, or better yet, let's ask the six-man helicopter crew who finished their here samosa and chia before turning into crispy fried chicken.

Talk about shaky legs; your Chief of Army refused to take the plane back from the area bombs were dropped and took a train home, Lol.

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## VkdIndian

PakFactor said:


> Let's ask Abhinandan


No need of that. The urgency with which he was handed back said it all. People guessed about this urgency but it was a guess till “kaapen tang gayi aur paseena………”.
Whatever doubts were remaining were cleared later by “kaapen tang rahi thi episode”.

In this world full of mysteries the ones that come out in open are considered solved. Conjectures can be made by fanboys and flogged without any credence to them.


PakFactor said:


> Talk about shaky legs; your Chief of Army refused to take the plane back from the area bombs were dropped and took a train home,


This issue has been flogged to its death here. Nothing has come out of it so it’s futile to start again.

You can try chai+samosa meanwhile and give your assessment here. A dash of tamarind chutney can add to the experience.

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## Windjammer

Only Indian idiots, after failing to hit any targets in their desparate efforts to prove their worth, failing to stop PAF smacking Indians in broad daylight... After losing couple of aircrafts and humiliation of one Agni Pankh patil getting captured with a bloody nose, panicking and shooting down own Chopper deep within own territory and then proving their habitual cry baby cowardice by complaining to America... Can only rejoice by sucking upto what some clay footed Pakistani opposition politician ranted through own heartburn. 
Have these Indian jokers forgotten how one Indian politician openly claimed that Pakistan still holds six kargil peaks while another said that India's so called leopard urine infused surgical strikes were actually staged in his coiiibiiistituency. 
If Indians had any credibility, they wouldn't have required services of the likes of Christian Fair... They paid her thousands of dollars... Only to get an egg on the face.... and a well deserved one.

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## PakFactor

Windjammer said:


> Only Indian idiots, after failing to hit any targets in their desparate efforts to prove their worth, failing to stop PAF smacking Indians in broad daylight... After losing couple of aircrafts and humiliation of one Agni Pankh patil getting captured with a bloody nose, panicking and shooting down own Chopper deep within own territory and then proving their habitual cry baby cowardice by complaining to America... Can only rejoice by sucking upto what some clay footed Pakistani opposition politician ranted through own heartburn.
> Have these Indian jokers forgotten how one Indian politician openly claimed that Pakistan still holds six kargil peaks while another said that India's so called leopard urine infused surgical strikes were actually staged in his coiiibiiistituency.
> If Indians had any credibility, they wouldn't have required services of the likes of Christian Fair... They paid her thousands of dollars... Only to get an egg on the face.... and a well deserved one.



Sadly, the Indian rodent responding to me has a thick skull. But let them enjoy their crying and that who isn't paying much attention to them.

The image of them holding the AMRAAM will continue to haunt them. Along with being the only air force to make a patch and displaying that it was dodging a missile, Lol.

You can’t make that shit up.

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## Primus

VkdIndian said:


> No need of that. The urgency with which he was handed back said it all. People guessed about this urgency but it was a guess till “kaapen tang gayi aur paseena………”.
> Whatever doubts were remaining were cleared later by “kaapen tang rahi thi episode”.
> 
> In this world full of mysteries the ones that come out in open are considered solved. Conjectures can be made by fanboys and flogged without any credence to them.
> 
> This issue has been flogged to its death here. Nothing has come out of it so it’s futile to start again.
> 
> You can try chai+samosa meanwhile and give your assessment here. A dash of tamarind chutney can add to the experience.

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## Talon

PakFactor said:


> the only air force to make a patch and displaying that it was dodging a missile, Lol.


And that too in it's own airspace.. CHAD move

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## Path-Finder

Windjammer said:


> leopard urine infused surgical strikes


I don't think Feb 26 vediq incursion had any use of such feline defecation.

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## Irfan Baloch

siegecrossbow said:


> He seriously said Jai Hind? That sounds made up.


well thats what the baba claims

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## Pak-Canuck

Su-30 shot over azad kashmir, aircraft in flames fell down in IOK, just like IOK residents and reporter described in this clip






and this one especially at the place of the Mi-17 crash, where the eye-witness is CLEARLY saying another plane, not a helicopter was shot down and fell nearby at the 2:20 mark






two different groups of witnesses, from NON-PAK media, FIRST CLIP SAYING PLANE WAS coming from pak side of border in flames and second clip confirming a plane crashing close by the helicopter as well, both confirmations of a plane being shot down and crashing in IOK. Keep in mind that this PERFECTLY FITS WITH ALLEN WARNES'S opinion stated in the swift retort documentary as to why would the shot down Mi-17 be in the area UNLESS IT WAS there to recover the Su-30 crew at the crash site which this witness said was right nearby.

This along with clips from the Pak side from witnesses claiming Sikh pilot and another being captured






ALONG WITH INDIAN MEDIA claiming a SU-30 shot down by Pak which you've probably seen a 1000 times now. Along with BOTH Pak pilots proudly claiming the kills openly on several media sources, and NOT A WORD from abhi-none-done anywhere confirming what he did, way too many coincidences pointing to one direction






And here we have Allan Warnes at 7:00 talking about what other reason the downed helicopter being in the area would be other than rescuing the downed Su-30 crew

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

India lost 11 SU-30 in accidents but ordering 12 SU-30.

This confirms that Indians lost at least one SU-30 on that day.

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## VkdIndian

PakFactor said:


> Sadly, the Indian rodent responding to me has a thick skull.


You wanted to know the taste of Samosa and Chai. When told the same, you got angry?
What happened to your sense of humour which appeared in ample while enquiring the taste of a tasty treat?

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## ghazi52

,.,.,.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536293819582402561

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## Cool_Soldier

Whatever you bring evidences to prove about SU30 KILL., you cant convince Indian because they believe CROW is white.

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## ghazi52

,.,.,

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## TNT

Aren't there any satellite pics available of the areas in those dates. It would confirm everything.


----------



## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575865591004626944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500083831726030852




















"Since Modi’s ascent to power, he is giving special attention to the ever-growing needs of the Indian armed forces by allocating more defense budget. He seems convinced that a developed India could only be possible if its armed forces are strong and capable of responding effectively to all threats to national security – foreign and domestic. For instance, in the aftermath of the humiliation faced by India in February 2019 when Pakistan shot down 2 Indian MiG-21 fighter aircraft, PM Modi was quick to lament the delayed delivery of French-built Rafale Omni-role fighter aircraft. He was adamant about the operational capabilities of Rafale and was fully confident that the outcome of the air battle would have been entirely different had the Indian Air Force acquired the said jets earlier."

"ONLY IF WE HAD RAFALE...!"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575833387084189696
"...aerial combat between India and Pakistan in the last two decades occurred in February 2019 when a MiG-21 Bison of the Indian Air Force (IAF) got into a dogfight with a PAF F-16. This was during India’s counteroperation to Pakistan’s Operation Swift Retort, the PAF mission against India’s Operation Bandar which carried out airstrikes on the terrorist camps in Pakistan's Balakot. In the dogfight, F-16 gave Pakistan an advantage which resulted in India’s Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman being captured by the Pakistani forces."










Analyzing India’s 76 billion USD Defence Budget


India’s defense budget for the Fiscal Year 2022-2023 is likely to be around 80 billion USD, surpassing that of the United Kingdom and Russia.




www.globalvillagespace.com

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## K_Bin_W

Pak-Canuck said:


> Su-30 shot over azad kashmir, aircraft in flames fell down in IOK, just like IOK residents and reporter described in this clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this one especially at the place of the Mi-17 crash, where the eye-witness is CLEARLY saying another plane, not a helicopter was shot down and fell nearby at the 2:20 mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> two different groups of witnesses, from NON-PAK media, FIRST CLIP SAYING PLANE WAS coming from pak side of border in flames and second clip confirming a plane crashing close by the helicopter as well, both confirmations of a plane being shot down and crashing in IOK. Keep in mind that this PERFECTLY FITS WITH ALLEN WARNES'S opinion stated in the swift retort documentary as to why would the shot down Mi-17 be in the area UNLESS IT WAS there to recover the Su-30 crew at the crash site which this witness said was right nearby.
> 
> This along with clips from the Pak side from witnesses claiming Sikh pilot and another being captured
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ALONG WITH INDIAN MEDIA claiming a SU-30 shot down by Pak which you've probably seen a 1000 times now. Along with BOTH Pak pilots proudly claiming the kills openly on several media sources, and NOT A WORD from abhi-none-done anywhere confirming what he did, way too many coincidences pointing to one direction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here we have Allan Warnes at 7:00 talking about what other reason the downed helicopter being in the area would be other than rescuing the downed Su-30 crew


Conveniently 2 SU30 pilots also died in a car crash.

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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## Trango Towers

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> View attachment 895647


Abinandhan knows he didn't fire a missile or down an f16. 
He has never claimed the kill but accepted the honour. How does this work?

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## CrazyZ

ghazi52 said:


> .,.,
> View attachment 895647


According to Indian media.......India has won every international cricket tournament for the last 100 years.  If you don't like the reality.......just make it up an hype your fake version.


----------



## Stealth



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## ghazi52

,.,.,.
Tail of India's Mig-21 Bison fighter jet (WAR TROPHY) which was shoot down by Pakistan Airforce's F-16 fighter jet on 27 Feb, 2019 during Operation Swift Retort displayed at IDEAS 2022.

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## ghazi52

.,.,.

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## Ali_Baba

On that fateful day when PAF shot down the Su30MKI and Mig21, it also on the same day shot down the entire indian strategy of "surgical strikes".

How many times since that day - have the Indians spoken about surgical strikes?

0-times !!!!

Shot down, crash and burned is the whole surgical strike doctrine ....

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## GiantPanda

They were very surgical in hitting that IAF Mi-17!

Those six IAF personnel (RIP) were the only human casualties (not counting the two IAF jets shot down) in the whole affair. Takes great precision to hit an Indian helo with so many PAF jets all around it!

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## Bleek

GiantPanda said:


> They were very surgical in hitting that IAF Mi-17!
> 
> Those six IAF personnel (RIP) were the only human casualties (not counting the two IAF jets shot down) in the whole affair. Takes great precision to hit an Indian helo with so many PAF jets all around it!


We don't call India a supa powa for no reason 💪🏼

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## Ghessan

Bleek said:


> We don't call India a supa powa for no reason 💪🏼



hell of a super power

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## Ghessan

JF-17 Thunder that downed Abhinandan’s aircraft on display at IDEAS 2022


* Over 500 exhibitors from Pakistan and other countries are displaying products at the Karachi Expo Centre



www.brecorder.com


----------



## Bleek

Ghessan said:


> JF-17 Thunder that downed Abhinandan’s aircraft on display at IDEAS 2022
> 
> 
> * Over 500 exhibitors from Pakistan and other countries are displaying products at the Karachi Expo Centre
> 
> 
> 
> www.brecorder.com


“It is the same JF-17 Thunder (on display) that struck Abhinandan’s aircraft,” said a company representative while giving a briefing at the event on Wednesday.

It was an F-16 though?


----------



## Ghessan

Bleek said:


> “It is the same JF-17 Thunder (on display) that struck Abhinandan’s aircraft,” said a company representative while giving a briefing at the event on Wednesday.
> 
> It was an F-16 though?



being confused, i highlighted the news for same reason.


----------



## GiantPanda

Ghessan said:


> JF-17 Thunder that downed Abhinandan’s aircraft on display at IDEAS 2022
> 
> 
> * Over 500 exhibitors from Pakistan and other countries are displaying products at the Karachi Expo Centre
> 
> 
> 
> www.brecorder.com



_“It is the same JF-17 Thunder (on display) that struck Abhinandan’s aircraft,” said a company representative while giving a briefing at the event on Wednesday._

So it was a JF-17 after all! And also the SU-30 MKI kill? Both from the same squadron?



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100724900086595599


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## Bleek

GiantPanda said:


> _“It is the same JF-17 Thunder (on display) that struck Abhinandan’s aircraft,” said a company representative while giving a briefing at the event on Wednesday._
> 
> So it was a JF-17 after all! And also the SU-30 MKI kill? Both from the same squadron?
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100724900086595599


It probably wasn't, this person is still following the old story for some reason, maybe doesn't realise it was already said F-16s were used or something


----------



## GiantPanda

Bleek said:


> It probably wasn't, this person is still following the old story for some reason, maybe doesn't realise it was already said F-16s were used or something



Okay. From what I read, Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui and Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan were credited with the kills officially right?






Were they or were they not members of No.14 "Tail Choppers" that was equipped with JF-17s (as reported initially and in the previous celebration video in front of the JF-17) or were they part of another squadron composed of F-16s?


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## SQ8

GiantPanda said:


> Okay. From what I read, Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui and Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan were credited with the kills officially right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were they or were they not members of No.14 "Tail Choppers" that was equipped with JF-17s (as reported initially and in the previous celebration video in front of the JF-17) or were they part of another squadron composed of F-16s?


Wg Cdr Nauman was with CCS 29sq 
I believe Sqn ld hassan was 11sq.
The JF-17 celebration was a “cautious” plant to simply get plausible deniability

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## GiantPanda

SQ8 said:


> Wg Cdr Nauman was with CCS 29sq
> I believe Sqn ld hassan was 11sq.
> The JF-17 celebration was a “cautious” plant to simply get plausible deniability



Thanks!


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## Wesen Hunter

Ali_Baba said:


> On that fateful day when PAF shot down the Su30MKI and Mig21, it also on the same day shot down the entire indian strategy of "surgical strikes".
> 
> How many times since that day - have the Indians spoken about surgical strikes?
> 
> 0-times !!!!
> 
> Shot down, crash and burned is the whole surgical strike doctrine ....


That's because we didn't need to talk about surgical strikes.
Just Balakot strikes were enough to force Pakistani military establishment to cut down on activities of LeT, JeM etc and causing a total collapse of insurgency in Kashmir.
It is no coincidence that Indian security forces casualties in Kashmir decreased to some of the lowest levels in 33 years.
Thanks to Balakot strikes, insurgency in Kashmir has been delivered a fatal blow.



GiantPanda said:


> not counting the two IAF jets shot down


Telling a lie 100 times, does not make it the truth.

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## Pak-Canuck

Pak-Canuck said:


> Su-30 shot over azad kashmir, aircraft in flames fell down in IOK, just like IOK residents and reporter described in this clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this one especially at the place of the Mi-17 crash, where the eye-witness is CLEARLY saying another plane, not a helicopter was shot down and fell nearby at the 2:20 mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> two different groups of witnesses, from NON-PAK media, FIRST CLIP SAYING PLANE WAS coming from pak side of border in flames and second clip confirming a plane crashing close by the helicopter as well, both confirmations of a plane being shot down and crashing in IOK. Keep in mind that this PERFECTLY FITS WITH ALLEN WARNES'S opinion stated in the swift retort documentary as to why would the shot down Mi-17 be in the area UNLESS IT WAS there to recover the Su-30 crew at the crash site which this witness said was right nearby.
> 
> This along with clips from the Pak side from witnesses claiming Sikh pilot and another being captured
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ALONG WITH INDIAN MEDIA claiming a SU-30 shot down by Pak which you've probably seen a 1000 times now. Along with BOTH Pak pilots proudly claiming the kills openly on several media sources, and NOT A WORD from abhi-none-done anywhere confirming what he did, way too many coincidences pointing to one direction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here we have Allan Warnes at 7:00 talking about what other reason the downed helicopter being in the area would be other than rescuing the downed Su-30 crew



Will just keep re-posting all these facts and evidences for all the naysayers

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## sutton999

One possible reasoning why Pak want to cover up the shot down of Su30. If Pak shot down one Su30 and at least one pilot killed. India would have to retaliate substantially. Things could escalate quickly. In current makeup, both sides only need spit each other on social media, which is very good outcome.


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## Pak-Canuck

sutton999 said:


> One possible reasoning why Pak want to cover up the shot down of Su30. If Pak shot down one Su30 and at least one pilot killed. India would have to retaliate substantially. Things could escalate quickly. In current makeup, both sides only need spit each other on social media, which is very good outcome.



Didn't cover up the Su30 shoot down, however did cover up the captured / killed pilots for either the reason you mentioned or something even more significant. And here's another zinger, the Indian helicopter that was shot down was ALSO SHOT down by PAF and not by India's own SAM, THAT was for the exact reason you just mentioned. It was misidentified as a fighter plane by a JF-17 pilot and because it led to the deaths of 6 rescue personnel, that "self-kill story" was used by both sides so as not to be pressured into an escalation.

I will be posting some things here very soon regarding additional details of what else may have happened that day, a lot of it is gonna really ruffle some feathers lol, stay tuned.

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## PakFactor

Pak-Canuck said:


> Didn't cover up the Su30 shoot down, however did cover up the captured / killed pilots for either the reason you mentioned or something even more significant. And here's another zinger, the Indian helicopter that was shot down was ALSO SHOT down by PAF and not by India's own SAM, THAT was for the exact reason you just mentioned. It was misidentified as a fighter plane by a JF-17 pilot and because it led to the deaths of 6 rescue personnel, that "self-kill story" was used by both sides so as not to be pressured into an escalation.
> 
> I will be posting some things here very soon regarding additional details of what else may have happened that day, a lot of it is gonna really ruffle some feathers lol, stay tuned.



Copy me in the email when you do, please.

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## Trailer23

Well..., this is coming from a seasoned Politician on the whole Pulwama debacle & Bipin.

Clip already timestamped - Just click play.







@araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @ghazi52 @Talon @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Jango @krash @LeGenD @SQ8 @waz @Windjammer @AeroEngineer @akramishaqkhan @aliyusuf @AMRAAM @Areesh @ARMalik @Clairvoyant @Clutch @Cookie Monster @Counter-Errorist @crankthatskunk @Dalit @DESERT FIGHTER @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @FuturePAF @Ghessan @graphican @GriffinsRule @Gryphon @GumNaam @HRK @HAIDER @iLION12345_1 @Khanivore @khansaheeb@Mrc @mshan44 @Nasr @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakFactor @PakShaheen79 @Path-Finder @PanzerKiel @PWFI @Riz @Signalian @Stealth @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Viper27 @Verve @White and Green with M/S @Yasser76 @Zarvan @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar @PakSword @Maarkhoor @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007 @War Thunder @ZedZeeshan

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## TopGun786

Wesen Hunter said:


> That's because we didn't need to talk about surgical strikes.
> Just Balakot strikes were enough to force Pakistani military establishment to cut down on activities of LeT, JeM etc and causing a total collapse of insurgency in Kashmir.
> It is no coincidence that Indian security forces casualties in Kashmir decreased to some of the lowest levels in 33 years.
> Thanks to Balakot strikes, insurgency in Kashmir has been delivered a fatal blow.
> 
> 
> Telling a lie 100 times, does not make it the truth.


Yes, we saw Pakistan Pounded Endian posts in daylight ... shot 2 jets (Mig 21 & SU 30MKI), and shot an Indian Heli with AMRAAM 120 C (yes it was not ''spider'', both sides know it and remain silent due to some reason) .... At least 8 personnel were killed that day (2 SU30 pilots + 6 Heli boys, all Indian). Yes, we saw after this incident who had the fatal blow and who had been silenced. All the above events have well-established proof from the Pakistan side.
On the other hand, India has none against its claims. Even the 2 trees they downed and one crow they killed that day were the only pics as claims they got from local social media posts.

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## Super Falcon

Speculation are Bipin rawat was assassinated by deliberate helicopter crash due to rawat was getting highlited more by indian media and gaining much more power in indian establishment modi was seeing this scinario a danger for him Bipin getting more power to challenge modi for power in future this is why new CDS now not getting much attention too

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## ghazi52

.,.,.,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597861444951117824

ENTEI
@ZEUS_PSF

PAF deployed JF-17 Thunder with REK & Mirage with H-4, & took precision strikes on Indian military targets, IAF scrambled Mig-21 Bison & Su-30MKI, PAF F-16s were on CAP, F-16s fired Aim-120C5 AMRAAM BVR, & shot down Mig-21 Bison (Captured Abhinandan) & another claim was Su-30MKI, Indian Air Defense shot down its own Mi-17 helicopter with its own ADS SPYDER, despite general perception, the real heroes of Operation SR were DA-20 EW/ECM/ESM & Saab-2000 Erieye, IAF didn't deployed Tejas on 27th as well. 

Indian Air Force also didn't deploy HAL LCA Tejas during China-India stand-off 2020, the conclusion is that HAL LCA Tejas isn't an operational fighter jet while JF-17 Thunder is a combat proven fighter. 
~ War on Terror 
~ Iranian drone shot down over Balochistan 
~ Op SR

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## Trango Towers

When Indian came to dance but---- little pakistan had the answer looooool






Facebook







www.facebook.com





Apologies....I couldn't resist

ENJOY

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## ghazi52

Why were these gentlemen so sad on that day???

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## PWFI

ghazi52 said:


> Why were these gentlemen so sad on that day???
> 
> View attachment 901803


They are carrying a used condom of Paxistani Ef-Solan

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## Irfan Baloch

ghazi52 said:


> Why were these gentlemen so sad on that day???
> 
> View attachment 901803


showing teh F-16 missile that drilled their raptor of the east lol

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## Ghessan

ghazi52 said:


> Why were these gentlemen so sad on that day???
> 
> View attachment 901803



ridiculed themselves by such act, it is one of it's own kind that one cannot expect from a professional air force.

but they did not stop there, kept going with their stupid theories. in particular was Modi theory of clouds being hurdle which whole nation devoured to save their embarrassment.

this is Modi's India but sane minds do exist there, they have their compulsions. with video posted above, such things are and will come out gradually.

let India shine under Modi and i wish it keep shinning more and more with this great man ruling.

oh my, find something out of politics to read and talk, thanks @Trailer23 .

PS. and i again say this thread won't die easy...

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## Titanium100

Super Falcon said:


> Speculation are Bipin rawat was assassinated by deliberate helicopter crash due to rawat was getting highlited more by indian media and gaining much more power in indian establishment



Most people assumed China did it in India as it had close resemblance to how Taiwan generals died a year before that

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## AlKardai

Reading through the thread from when balakot got hit, up until swift retort.

It's so nice to feel those emotions again. Excitement, happiness, laughter. 


Dear Neighbour, it isn't 1971 anymore.


Hassan Guy said:


> if its real i'll penetrate a pile of snow raw and post it to pdf


this didn't age so well...

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## ghazi52

,.,.

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## K_Bin_W

ghazi52 said:


> ,.,.
> View attachment 902122


RIP.


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## Windjammer



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## ghazi52

Good Bye. Your Medal waiting with the President...

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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## K_Bin_W

ghazi52 said:


> ,.,.
> View attachment 902122


This terrorism and murder..


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## ghazi52

,..,,.

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## SaadH

ghazi52 said:


> ,..,,.


Military duffers gave all of Kashmir to India in the map on one patches just like in real life.

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## TopGun786

An internal inquiry done by the Indian Ministry of Defense found that at least 13 Indian pilots from its No. 51 Squadron refused to take off against Pakistani aerial forces on 27 February 2019, citing “inferiority” of their aircraft. The squadron was disbanded after this inquiry recommended grounding the pilots. Later, the Indian political leadership decided to hide the incident under the garb of a scheduled phase-out of the MiG-21 Bison fighter from IAF service, according to the leaked documents.

One of the Indian pilots spent 40 minutes inside his washroom as Pakistani fighter were bombing Indian bases, while out of the 24 pilots at the airbase, only 5 were able to get airborne, half an hour after orders were passed, according to a leaked Indian MoD inquiry report.

#PakistanAirForce 🇵🇰
#TeamPakistanStrategicForum

Full report: https://t.co/u1tEIogBuO

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## ghazi52

.,..
When you know your self-protection suite is lousy and can't be depended upon to protect you from Western air defense systems, so you turn to spiritual help instead ...

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## Path-Finder

4th anniversary coming up! who feels old?

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## .King.

TopGun786 said:


> An internal inquiry done by the Indian Ministry of Defense found that at least 13 Indian pilots from its No. 51 Squadron refused to take off against Pakistani aerial forces on 27 February 2019, citing “inferiority” of their aircraft. The squadron was disbanded after this inquiry recommended grounding the pilots. Later, the Indian political leadership decided to hide the incident under the garb of a scheduled phase-out of the MiG-21 Bison fighter from IAF service, according to the leaked documents.
> 
> One of the Indian pilots spent 40 minutes inside his washroom as Pakistani fighter were bombing Indian bases, while out of the 24 pilots at the airbase, only 5 were able to get airborne, half an hour after orders were passed, according to a leaked Indian MoD inquiry report.
> 
> #PakistanAirForce 🇵🇰
> #TeamPakistanStrategicForum
> 
> Full report: https://t.co/u1tEIogBuO


Wasnt this some random bullshit that PSF guys just came up with? Though not surprised you all still believe those fake news peddlers, need some light in these dark days

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## TopGun786

This is what at happened on 27 Feb 2019

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## ghazi52

Not long ago,....
Enjoying company of PAF jets,
The infamous Indian Air Force Folland Gnat (IE-1083) sitting toothless between two Pakistan Air Force F-86/CL-13B "Sabre(s)", somewhere in Pakistan.

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## deX

I “guess” not. They have thr own kinda space, which doesn’t get affected a lot. (I think)


maverick1977 said:


> This might be the last time PAF will perform against IAF due to low morale and nation not standing behind the armed forces.


Besides, PAF knows, what top army brass is like, definitely after kargil.


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## SIPRA

maverick1977 said:


> This might be the last time PAF will perform against IAF due to low morale and nation not standing behind the armed forces.



May be, but, even in this case, Mir Bajwa was not in favor of a retaliation. It was CJCSC and Air Chief, who prevailed, besides IK and political outfit.

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## White privilege

SIPRA said:


> May be, but, even in this case, Mir Bajwa was not in favor of a retaliation. It was CJCSC and Air Chief, who prevailed, besides IK and political outfit.


Whatever _'Mir Bajwa's'_ opinion was, don't forget Arshad Shareef himself along with Fawad Ch. _ _were praising him for that. And also kind of _roasting_ the Air chief for recommending no holds barred response. Ofcourse this was when _Bajwa was the sitting COAS. _😁🤔


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## deX

SIPRA said:


> May be, but, even in this case, Mir Bajwa was not in favor of a retaliation. It was CJCSC and Air Chief, who prevailed, besides IK and political outfit.


True,
What i heard, that when bajwa was saying no (chal ren deo sir g) in NSC meeting, a chit was sent from IK to Air Chief Mujahid that prepare your reply to india, i will take care of these chickens...

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## maverick1977

Irfan Baloch said:


> trust me
> there is no such problem. the military has not taken the fall of Imran Khan's government to heart. they have a giggle whenever they think of Waseem Akram plus, ..
> Okey I stop there,


u r wrong, utter disgust in middle ranking officers, so much so that they questioned asim munir in one garrison so much that got upset and he started yelling at them… sorry u r having an ostrich moment

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## Irfan Baloch

maverick1977 said:


> u r wrong, utter disgust in middle ranking officers, so much so that they questioned asim munir in one garrison so much that got upset and he started yelling at them… sorry u r having an ostrich moment


Suit yourself Mr. No-Ostrich 
seems like my Advice has had an opposite effect. you must have read this authentic news that conman RaJa Adil pulled out of his behind. those middle Ranking officers might have lost their way to Bani Galla or GHQ otherwise they would've put Imran Khan back in power.

but this is all irrelevant. this thread is not about curing the collective butthurt of PTI cult base. its about PAF spanking the Indians. 
any more PTI whining will be removed along with warnings.

thanks

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## ghazi52

,..,.,

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## K_Bin_W

I saw this poster and almost fell off the chair, Its creativity to run his business.

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## ghazi52

.,.,

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## Windjammer



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## Windjammer



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## Wesen Hunter

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 910769


Cobra maneuver was not even required.
This flying cold turned out to be more than enough for the Sukhois to get out of that Amraam's Rmax and stay outisde MAR.

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## Primus

Wesen Hunter said:


> Cobra maneuver was not even required.
> This flying cold turned out to be more than enough for the Sukhois to get out of that Amraam's Rmax and stay outisde MAR.


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## walterbibikow



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## Windjammer

Agar Rafale hota tu Bharti ka balatkar na hota. 








" Agar Hamaray Pass Rafale Hota tu #AbhiNandan na Girta " | " Agar Hamaray Pass Rafale Hota tu #AbhiNandan na Girta " Modi reveals his “Pilot Project”. It was all about “Rafale Jets” worth €7.8 billion which Modi... | By PPP Media Cell Central Secret


1.1K views, 19 likes, 0 loves, 0 comments, 3 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from PPP Media Cell Central Secretariat: " Agar Hamaray Pass Rafale Hota tu #AbhiNandan na Girta " Modi reveals his “Pilot...




fb.watch





Indian idiots think they went into battle with just Two SU-30s and Three MK2s in it's inventory.

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## Raider 21

walterbibikow said:


> View attachment 910778


I have seen Avenger 1 & Avenger 2 fly out of Japan but they were not Indian Su-30MKIs.....

An aircraft's callsign can easily change. They were Avenger 1 & 2 that day, they could be Modi 1 & 2 another day

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## Trango Towers

walterbibikow said:


> View attachment 910778


Avenger?? Is my English bad or exactly what did they avenge? From what I know they git their *** handed to them with modi crying " if we only had Rafaels"

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## walterbibikow

Trango Towers said:


> Avenger?? Is my English bad or exactly what did they avenge? From what I know they git their *** handed to them with modi crying " if we only had Rafaels"


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## Windjammer

The Patils are very efficient in capturing Pigeons and shooting down weather balloons and their own choppers but these weekend warriors don’t have a clue when a Chopper flies over ten Km into their territory, lands drops it's assets and takes off to return safely and to add insult to injury, repeats same exercise next day. 









Musharraf 'spent a night in India ahead of Kargil conflict'


Weeks before hostilities erupted between Indian and Pakistani troops in the Kargil sector in 1999, Gen. Pervez Musharraf spent a night at a location 11 km inside Indian territory.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Riz

walterbibikow said:


>


Before 27 feb hindutva terrorists often use to say , now this is a modi g india , modi has a 56 inch chest , now modi looking for a reason to conquer pak ,  MC when pak escalated that day he showed his 56 inch pichwada rather then his chest

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## Pakstallion

Windjammer said:


> The Patils are very efficient in capturing Pigeons and shooting down weather balloons and their own choppers but these weekend warriors don’t have a clue when a Chopper flies over ten Km into their territory, lands drops it's assets and takes off to return safely and to add insult to injury, repeats same exercise next day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Musharraf 'spent a night in India ahead of Kargil conflict'
> 
> 
> Weeks before hostilities erupted between Indian and Pakistani troops in the Kargil sector in 1999, Gen. Pervez Musharraf spent a night at a location 11 km inside Indian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Those are some BALLS OF STEEL. COAS having guts to spend night 11km past LOC. Mush had many problems but big patriot and daring.


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## ghazi52

.,.,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612826262791143424

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## Ghessan

as i said many many months before, this thread won't die easy ... keep going boys...

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