# Indian Special Forces



## amarnath



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## amarnath



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## amarnath



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## amarnath



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## xebex

^^^ which unit is this?? never seen this particular blue uniform. Bytheway awesome pics dude, keep 'em comming!

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## xebex

Here is some more......

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## amarnath

Man These SPG commandos look cool and well equipped .....


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## amarnath

View attachment f3e102e2153c548fc2fc142b2adb534a.jpg


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## xebex

amarnath said:


> Man These SPG commandos look cool and well equipped .....



lol man, thatz bcoz they are suppose to protect politicians..

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## amarnath

xebex said:


> lol man, thatz bcoz they are suppose to protect politicians..



Hahaha Well Said bro.....


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## marcos98

*Quick response team (QRT) of the Indian Navy*

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## XYON

xebex said:


> Here is some more......




They look more like US Marines or Blackwater WANNABEES!!

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## Kompromat

Good stuff , but India needs to put a hell of a lot of efforts to bring its SF's to International Standards or as a Regional force with its counter parts , SSG/Chinese SF and Russians.

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## RobbieS

Black blood said:


> Good stuff , but India needs to put a hell of a lot of efforts to bring its SF's to International Standards or as a Regional force with its counter parts , SSG/Chinese SF and Russians.



And you can say that because your armchair provides with a good enough view into the workings and operations of all the special forces in the world?

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## TaimiKhan

Black blood said:


> Good stuff , but India needs to put a hell of a lot of efforts to bring its SF's to International Standards or as a Regional force with its counter parts , SSG/Chinese SF and Russians.



Who said they are not at par ?? BB come on buddy, Indian special forces of army, navy are no less then any other good SF. 

But no idea about the AF and other law enforcement ones. 

But their Army and Navy ones are good enough to be at par with any good SF in the world.

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## baker

taimikhan said:


> But no idea about the AF and other law enforcement ones.



i agree they are young and didnt have any war/operation exposure
but garud command force is getting the longest training among all the indian special forces

source wiki


> Training
> Garud trainees undergo a 72 week Basic Training course, which is the longest among all the Indian special forces but it also includesthe basic training to become airmen as they are inducted directly from the civil. The Training regime to qualify as a Garud is extremely rigorous and lengthy.
> 
> The initial phase is a three month probationary training which filters out the promising candidates for the next phases of training. This phase, which usually has a high attrition (Drop-out) rate is conducted at the Garud Regimental Training Centre located at Hindon, near New Delhi.
> 
> The subsequent phase of special operations training is imparted by the Special Group of the Special Frontier Force, the army, NSG and the paramilitary forces. Those who qualify, proceed to the Parachute Training School (PTS) at Agra to complete the basic airborne phase. Trainees are trained along with paratroopers of the Indian Army.
> 
> The remainder of the phases concentrates on niche fields like jungle and snow survival, demolition, etc. Garuds also train at the diving school of the Indian Navy and the Army's Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School (CIJWS). The final phase of training is active operations on being attached to Special Force Units of the Indian Army, which helps the Garuds in gaining operational experience.
> 
> After induction, the commandos also undergo advanced training, including anti-hijack and counter insurgency training, jungle and snow survival techniques, specialized weapon handling and advanced driving skills. A few officers have also been trained in foreign countries like USA

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## Dark Angel

Black blood said:


> Good stuff , but India needs to put a hell of a lot of efforts to bring its SF's to International Standards or as a Regional force with its counter parts , SSG/Chinese SF and Russians.



*I guess u have trained with all of them *


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## amarnath

GORKHA RIFLES


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## TaimiKhan

baker said:


> i agree they are young and didnt have any war/operation exposure
> but garud command force is getting the longest training among all the indian special forces
> 
> source wiki



Agreed, but do read the first two lines of the source, as this longest time period includes the basic training as a "airmen" i believe includes too. So technically it doesn't makes it the longest, becoz in Army and AF, guys with already basic training come for SF training. 

in Garud they are directly inducted in the SF without getting the basic training required for airmen. 

But whatever, they are new and are developing, so hope they show their metal in future also.

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## Veer

*Exercise Red Flag: Indian Air Force Special Forces Garuds Exhibit Mission Capability*

The IAF's special force commandos 'The Garuds' successfully demonstrated their mission capability during the Exercise Red Flag, when they neutralized an enemy Radar site capturing an Air Field and carrying out combat search and rescue operations, in Nevada desert USA.

The enemy airfield (Red Forces) was simulated at about 60 Kms from the border and was considered strategically important for the friendly forces. The intelligence report made available identified the location of airfield in desert terrain suggesting medium threat environment and adequate defensive measures. The Garuds were assigned the task of neutralizing the enemy radar site and capture the airfield in a stipulated time frame of two hours.

After acquiring all the necessary intelligence inputs, including those from satellite and Unmanned Ariel Vehicle (UAV), the Garud Force mission commander Flt LT Jagvinder Singh carried out a detailed analysis of terrain and topography, worked out an operational plan. The plan included heliborne insertion and exfilteration of the force. The Garud during this exercise mission used assault riles as primary weapons, pistols and combat knives as secondary weapons, LMGs, Navigation and communication equipment and All Terrain Vehicles (ATVs).

It may be recalled that the IAF formed its first Garud Flight in year 2005 with 60 commandos initially and the force has been progressively growing since then. The need for forming such a force was felt after the Kargil Operations and terrorist attacks on IAF airfields in insurgency affected areas. The Garuds are trained to protect airfields from enemy and terrorist attacks, carry out hostage rescue operations, &#8216;Radar Busting' etc. The Garuds also carry out the combat search and rescue missions (CSAR) for securing back Pilots from hostile territory.

*"Capt Burry of USAF CSAR said "The Garuds have well executed all the assigned missions overcoming all the exercise limitations. The Garuds are a highly trained, motivated and mission oriented force. They never loose their focus and can achieve the near impossible task given to them"*

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## Veer



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## Veer

10 para SF


Para(SF) and US special forces during a exercise in India.


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## beckham

xebex said:


> ^^^ which unit is this?? never seen this particular blue uniform. Bytheway awesome pics dude, keep 'em comming!



Its *SPG 's counter-sniper unit* ! 

View attachment 402ae439bf4199f55ee9ed1af4fc120b.jpg

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## beckham



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## Veer



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## Veer



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## beckham

Ayo Gorkhali.......

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## beckham



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## beckham



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## DeathGod

Here are some videos, hopefully they werent posted earlier.

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## beckham



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## beckham

*Sikh Regiment
*

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## beckham



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## beckham

Indo-UK ex

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## beckham

11 Gorkha Rifles Regimental training Centre in the northern Indian city Lucknow



yoga class

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## beckham



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## beckham




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## beckham



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## beckham



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## beckham



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## beckham



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## beckham



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## beckham



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## beckham

*CRPF- RAF (rapid action force) *


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## PlanetWarrior

Why does our army / special forces / police have to "display" the bodies of militants or enemies of our nation after they have killed them. That is barbaric to me. If they kill them, just cremate or bury the bodies. They fought for a cause which we do not agree with but a cause nonetheless. To display their dead bodies is disrespectful IMO.

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## XYON

This THREAD is more of a RECRUITMENT POSTER then it is an actual statement of the capabilities of the Indian Special Forces. Indian Special Forces lack operational experience. Looking good for a spec op soldier is entirely secondary or as projected in the hollywood or bollywood flicks.

One can already see a lack of commonality of weapon systems with one type using AK-47 and others using FN2000, P90 and Tavor brands. Just a note from experience, P90 is not a prefered weapon to have for the force protection of VVIP's as the bullet of 5.7mm penetrates all known bullet proof jackets (including the ones being worn discretely by the VVIP's) and has a very high burst rate at close quarters. (alternative of the MP5A2 is much more manageable in a VVIP protection squad) FN weapons in general are not too user friendly as our PAF SSG have been using them for the last 8 years and they are not very happy with the FN2000 and its complicated operation. P90 however is a very sexy special forces weapon, our PAF SSG has it as do I. Very lethal for CQB encounters. The only drawback? 5.7mm bullet made only by FN Herstal of Belgium

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## Khajur

XYON said:


> This THREAD is more of a RECRUITMENT POSTER then it is an actual statement of the capabilities of the Indian Special Forces. *Indian Special Forces lack operational experience.* Looking good for a spec op soldier is entirely secondary or as projected in the hollywood or bollywood flicks.



Nonsense,indian speacial forces have many years of operational experience on them through their fighting in anti insurgency battles in Kahmir and also north east to a smaller extent.

Army frequently calls upon its para and Ghatak units to quash militants that cross over into indian kashmir and they are also deployed in Siachin and even Navy Marcos units are deployed Dal lake in Kashmir and see action in regular intervals.

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## XYON

Khajur said:


> Nonsense,indian speacial forces have many years of operational experience on them through their fighting in anti insurgency battles in Kahmir and also north east to a smaller extent.
> 
> Army frequently calls upon its para and Ghatak units to quash militants that cross over into indian kashmir and they are also deployed in Siachin and even Navy Marcos units are deployed Dal lake in Kashmir and see action in regular intervals.



My Bad! Those rock throwing & air-gun totting Kashmiri's are real bad @sses and highly trained assassins for Indian Special Forces to be called in by the Indian Army!!

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## gogbot

XYON said:


> My Bad! Those rock throwing & air-gun totting Kashmiri's are real bad @sses and highly trained assassins for Indian Special Forces to be called in by the Indian Army!!



These are practically the same guys the Americans have been fighting in Afghanistan.

The same guys that got training from the Mujahadeen that defeated the soviets.

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## Khajur

XYON said:


> My Bad! Those rock throwing & air-gun totting Kashmiri's are real bad @sses and highly trained assassins for Indian Special Forces to be called in by the Indian Army!!



U forget about the training camps in *** or else where inside pakistan where ur trainers teach jehadi mujahedins lot more than just stone pelting before sending them across the LOC.

Nothing new about SF deployments in counter insurgency battles ,even US & NATO foreces use their special forces to engage rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan.More over SF are usually more suited for it.

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## Veer

PlanetWarrior said:


> Why does our army / special forces / police have to "display" the bodies of militants or enemies of our nation after they have killed them. That is barbaric to me. If they kill them, just cremate or bury the bodies. They fought for a cause which we do not agree with but a cause nonetheless. To display their dead bodies is disrespectful IMO.



*Sorry, they are not human, You are a Indian that why you have sympathy with them like i also have but army is not doing anything wrong they are just collecting photographic evidence and also it give citizens assurance that they are safe. 

Our army always hand over intruders after interrogation to police. You must remember what other nations do with our solders they cuts their private parts, ears and nose and throws the mutilated bodies.

If army just shoots a millitant and cremate him immediately then there will we allegations that army just kills anybody they like and bury them in mass graves.

It will we highlighted as violations of human rights.

Each and every Muslim organization in whole India have refused to allow 26/11 terrorists to be buried in Muslim Kabristans. They have issued Fatwa against it.*


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## gogbot

Veer said:


> *Sorry, they are not human, You are a Indian that why you have sympathy with them like i also have but army is not doing anything wrong they are just collecting photographic evidence and also it give citizens assurance that they are safe.
> 
> Our army always hand over intruders after interrogation to police. You must remember what other nations do with our solders they cuts their private parts, ears and nose and throws the mutilated bodies.
> 
> If army just shoots a millitant and cremate him immediately then there will we allegations that army just kills anybody they like and bury them in mass graves.
> 
> It will we highlighted as violations of human rights.
> 
> Each and every Muslim organization in whole India have refused to allow 26/11 terrorists to be buried in Muslim Kabristans. They have issued Fatwa against it.*



dont sacrifice your own Humanity hunting for the inhuman forces that threaten us.

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## tyagi

most of the pic in this thered are of non sf personal of the army.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

I have a question to our indian members why do these indian security guys wear scarf kinda thingy on there head?it doesnt look nice nor it has any relation with heath or exercise etc?

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## Veer

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> I have a question to our indian members why do these indian security guys wear scarf kinda thingy on there head?it doesnt look nice nor it has any relation with heath or exercise etc?



*This is Kafan, our guys fights with Kafan tied on their head. They fight till their last breath, to their last drop of blood.

"Sar per Kafan Bandke Desh ki raksha ko nikalte hain gharse"*

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## XYON

Khajur said:


> U forget about the training camps in *** or else where inside pakistan where ur trainers teach jehadi mujahedins lot more than just stone pelting before sending them across the LOC.
> 
> Nothing new about SF deployments in counter insurgency battles ,even US & NATO foreces use their special forces to engage rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan.More over SF are usually more suited for it.



Yeah! I have seen in Mumbai recently how provision of little spec op training to ordinary but determined men can wreak havoc on your populace and special forces.

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## XYON

Veer said:


> *This is Kafan, our guys fights with Kafan tied on their head. They fight till their last breath, to their last drop of blood.
> 
> "Sar per Kafan Bandke Desh ki raksha ko nikalte hain gharse"*



More Bollywood Styling & Drama Baazi then required practicality in Spec Ops!

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## Dark Angel

XYON said:


> Yeah! I have seen in Mumbai recently how provision of little spec op training to ordinary but determined men can wreak havoc on your populace and special forces.



*The official data put the death toll at 183. Around 400 NSG commandos managed to rescue almost 700-800 people despite reaching the terror sites hours after the launch of the attacks. India was facing the worst terror attack on its soil and the countrys elite commando force was waiting for an airplane in New Delhi to reach the spot and get to the task of cornering terrorists. According to NSG DG Jyoti Krishan Dutt, By the time we reached (Mumbai), most (hostages) were dead." 

saving 700-800 people is not a bloody joke 

Kudos to the NSG and to all the forces that assisted these elite commandos in ending the unprecedented terror attack in Mumbai. The whole country is proud of them.*

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## Dark Angel

*After the Mumbai terror attacks, the cabinet had approved setting up of NSG hubs in the metropolitan cities to quickly mobilise commandos in case of a terrorist strike*

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## haawk

XYON said:


> More Bollywood Styling & Drama Baazi then required practicality in Spec Ops!



not just fot style or anything......the thing helps!!!!!....it prevents the sweat from just trickling down to the eye and spoiling the vision... --thus preventing the need to keep wiping sweat off your forehead regularly keeping the guys more foccused......besibes these are not only worn by the indian forces.......ever seen john rambo

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hwak the same can be done with a mask>?
Reguarding KAFAN lol dude its too small for that and KAFAN is WHITE not BLACK

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## Dark Angel

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Hwak the same can be done with a mask>?
> Reguarding KAFAN lol dude its too small for that and KAFAN is WHITE not BLACK



*c'mone buddy they want it they wear, they dont have to give a reason for it 

Did we ever say anything abt ur men wearing salwar kameez*

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## Veer

Dark Angel said:


> c'mone buddy they want it they wear, they dont have to give a reason for it
> 
> *Did we ever say anything abt ur men wearing salwar kameez*



lol befitting reply


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## Veer

*India Details Role of Special Forces*







NEW DELHI, India: India's Special Forces doctrine, released, details the dominant role special forces units are expected to play for all three services in future wars.
Adm. Sureesh Mehta, chairman, Chief of Staff Committee, and chief of the Naval Staff, formally released the "Joint Doctrine for Special Forces Operations" at a function here.
"All future wars or conflicts will demand the Special Forces to play an increasingly dominant role at all levels of war, be it strategic, operational or tactical. Therefore, the bringing out of this Special Forces doctrine has been most timely and apt," said the official release of the Indian Defence Ministry.
India's special forces will be trained to fight behind enemy lines and be instrumental in the Rapid Action Force formation enabling the Navy to fight littoral warfare.
The Indian Rapid Action forces, some of whom are being trained by Israel at unknown locations, will be armed with advanced weaponry and integrated through C4I systems.
"The doctrine emphasizes the need for providing timely, wholesome and accurate intelligence, fire support by attack helicopters, naval gunfire, artillery, precision-guided munitions and rockets for the successful conduct of special operations," the Defence Ministry release said. "The doctrine also highlights the importance of various aspects of joint training to achieve greater cohesion and the understanding necessary for conducting joint special operations."


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## Veer

*India's Special Forces To Have More Power To Counter Terror Strikes*

Saturday, January 2, 2010

MUMBAI, India - January 02, 2010: The Mumbai attack changed the way India looked at one of its most valuable assetsthe elite special forces. Now they are set to get more ammo to counter 26/11 type attacks in future. *The plan is to equip them for a new, long-term strategy to deal with the changing face of threats. Be it on the LoC or during clandestine and irregular warfare behind enemy lines, the special forces will get cutting-edge weaponry*. The defence ministry has identified a list of items. 

*It includes, besides traditional machine guns, the Tavor TAR-21s with a modified single-piece butt and new sights; Galil sniper rifles with telescopic and night vision; 5.56mm assault rifles of bull-pup design with integrated laser range finder and grenade launcher; and 8,000 UBGLs (under-barrel grenade launchers). There will be lightweight bullet-proof vests on the pattern the US Dragon skin body armour that offers greater range of motion for the soldier wearing it.*

*Infantry platoons and sections will get integrated GPS-based navigation system, lightweight walkie-talkie radio sets and better protective gear like lightweight anti-fragment helmet to replace the heavy metal combat helmet. Most of the weapons will be used by the Ghatak commandos, an elite infantry platoon attached to each infantry battalion of the Army. The Army will include three more battalions and dedicated Army Aviation Special Operations Squadrons, with helicopters and aircraft. Defence ministry sources said most of these equipment were from the US and Israel.*

The Defence Research and Development Organisation said the Army had shown interest in its Laser Dazzlers and modern submachine carbine assault rifles for the special forces. Developed by the DRDO Laser Science and Technology Centre, the Laser Dazzler is a non-lethal gun that can stun and blind terrorists for 40 seconds, giving time to capture them. There are further request orders from the Army for INSAS rifles, said a senior DRDO official. Our focus is now to develop lightweight weapons and equipment.
General Deepak Kapoor, the Army chief, said that while the defence ministry had decided to get the equipment to counter 26/11 type attacks,* We are looking at it from the perspective of improving the capability of our special forces. *Security experts said the purchase list had items that NSG commandos lacked during 26/11the bullet-proof armoured golf cart that can protect commandos as they move around a hotel, school or airport under siege. A moving platform that can reach windows 200m above the ground, the golf cart could have helped quick evacuation of people from the Taj and Trident during 26/11.
*
Top of the list of the special forces requirements are intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systemsunmanned aerial vehicles, remote detonating devices, laser range-finders and high-frequency communication systems. But as mobility is important, all-terrain vehicles and specially equipped transport aircraft and helicopters are needed. So, the government has fast-tracked purchase of two Aerostat air-defence radars and 80 fast-interception vessels for the Navy from Israel to plug gaps in coastal security. Aerostat radars can be moved to any location. And with a detection range of over 500km, they can track low-flying aircraft. The Navy has also proposed to buy offshore patrol vessels worth Rs 5,000 crore. **Former Army vice-chief Lt Gen. Vijay Oberoi said enhancing the capability of the special forces was imperative as terrorists had access to latest weapons. The courage and top physical fitness of our special forces is just not enough. They need latest and state-of-the-art equipment, he said. The Air Force is also in shopping mode. It is planning to buy six C-130J aircraft from the US for its Garud Commandos who protect Air Force bases and conduct search and rescue operations. The C-130J can land on makeshift landing grounds without lights. The Navy is also looking to acquire integrated surveillance systems. It is buying eight Boeing P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, worth $2.1 billion, from the US. The P-8A Poseidona long-range anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance aircraft* will replace the ageing and fuel-guzzling Russian Tupolev-142Ms. The deal has been long in the making, but 26/11 has brought it closer to closure.
The equipment requirements have altered considerably in recent years, in keeping with the dramatic changes in the special forces employment trends around the world, said an Army officer. The modernisation of the special forces should focus on precision and mobility. In a hilly terrain like Kupwara, the light but effective weapons and other gadgets allow troops to act faster.
Upgrade of the security forces is part of the governments strategy to prevent spillover of trouble from Pakistan. The surge of elite special forces units would represent a multi-layered effort aimed at strengthening the Army that the defence ministry sees as key to fighting terrorists, said Lt Gen. (retd) Rajinder Singh, who had commanded troops in J&K.
*Special forces commandos would be the tip of the spear in any Indian attack on terrorist camps in Azad Kashmir. The special forces are not designed to cover the full range of challenges we face today on the low end of the conflict scale, Singh said. We should prepare them for a large intervention that goes well beyond the use of small packets of troops on lonely hillsides.*

*Special forces of the world*

*US*
US Army Special Forces, the Green Berets, are equipped with sophisticated weapons like long-range sniper systems and M203a 40mm grenade-launcher fitted to SAS rifles
*UK*
Its recently formed new special forces unitsSRR & SFSG have a wide range of weaponry like C8 carbine, M16 and its variants, HK G36 and Claymore, a portable anti-personnel mine for defence and ambush
*Germany*
Fernspher, members of Germanys elite special force, use weapons with special additions not available to regular troops; the main weapon system is the Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, and variants of the HK MP5 SMG
*Israel*
Exact weapons of its special force, Sayeret, are not known, but it is one of the best equipped in the world; uses remote-controlled robot to scan tunnels that are used for smuggling
*China*
Special Operations Forces is a sub-branch of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army Ground Force; PLAs main infantry rifle is the recently issued QBZ-95; also uses locally-made versions of the Russian AK-47 rifles and SKS series carbines with the Chinese Type 56 assault rifle
*Pakistan*
Its Special Service Group is similar to the Green Berets and the British Armys SAS; the SSG weaponry includes Steyr AUG, HK G3, and Type 56 (Chinese AK-47 variant) and HK-MP5 Submachine guns; in sniper, SSG has Steyr MP 69, Finnish Tikka bolt-action and HK PSG1; most of the weapons are of US origin

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## d14gtc

Dark Angel said:


> *c'mone buddy they want it they wear, they dont have to give a reason for it
> 
> Did we ever say anything abt ur men wearing salwar kameez*





yep... befeting reply... ab sf ki uni se b problem hai... kamal hai bas thy need som topic,dats it


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## boris

Veer said:


> *India's Special Forces To Have More Power To Counter Terror Strikes*
> 
> Saturday, January 2, 2010
> 
> MUMBAI, India - January 02, 2010: The Mumbai attack changed the way India looked at one of its most valuable assetsthe elite special forces. Now they are set to get more ammo to counter 26/11 type attacks in future. *The plan is to equip them for a new, long-term strategy to deal with the changing face of threats. Be it on the LoC or during clandestine and irregular warfare behind enemy lines, the special forces will get cutting-edge weaponry*. The defence ministry has identified a list of items.
> 
> *It includes, besides traditional machine guns, the Tavor TAR-21s with a modified single-piece butt and new sights; Galil sniper rifles with telescopic and night vision; 5.56mm assault rifles of bull-pup design with integrated laser range finder and grenade launcher; and 8,000 UBGLs (under-barrel grenade launchers). There will be lightweight bullet-proof vests on the pattern the US Dragon skin body armour that offers greater range of motion for the soldier wearing it.*
> 
> *Infantry platoons and sections will get integrated GPS-based navigation system, lightweight walkie-talkie radio sets and better protective gear like lightweight anti-fragment helmet to replace the heavy metal combat helmet. Most of the weapons will be used by the Ghatak commandos, an elite infantry platoon attached to each infantry battalion of the Army. The Army will include three more battalions and dedicated Army Aviation Special Operations Squadrons, with helicopters and aircraft. Defence ministry sources said most of these equipment were from the US and Israel.*
> 
> The Defence Research and Development Organisation said the Army had shown interest in its Laser Dazzlers and modern submachine carbine assault rifles for the special forces. Developed by the DRDO Laser Science and Technology Centre, the Laser Dazzler is a non-lethal gun that can stun and blind terrorists for 40 seconds, giving time to capture them. There are further request orders from the Army for INSAS rifles, said a senior DRDO official. Our focus is now to develop lightweight weapons and equipment.
> General Deepak Kapoor, the Army chief, said that while the defence ministry had decided to get the equipment to counter 26/11 type attacks,* We are looking at it from the perspective of improving the capability of our special forces. *Security experts said the purchase list had items that NSG commandos lacked during 26/11the bullet-proof armoured golf cart that can protect commandos as they move around a hotel, school or airport under siege. A moving platform that can reach windows 200m above the ground, the golf cart could have helped quick evacuation of people from the Taj and Trident during 26/11.
> *
> Top of the list of the special forces requirements are intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systemsunmanned aerial vehicles, remote detonating devices, laser range-finders and high-frequency communication systems. But as mobility is important, all-terrain vehicles and specially equipped transport aircraft and helicopters are needed. So, the government has fast-tracked purchase of two Aerostat air-defence radars and 80 fast-interception vessels for the Navy from Israel to plug gaps in coastal security. Aerostat radars can be moved to any location. And with a detection range of over 500km, they can track low-flying aircraft. The Navy has also proposed to buy offshore patrol vessels worth Rs 5,000 crore. **Former Army vice-chief Lt Gen. Vijay Oberoi said enhancing the capability of the special forces was imperative as terrorists had access to latest weapons. The courage and top physical fitness of our special forces is just not enough. They need latest and state-of-the-art equipment, he said. The Air Force is also in shopping mode. It is planning to buy six C-130J aircraft from the US for its Garud Commandos who protect Air Force bases and conduct search and rescue operations. The C-130J can land on makeshift landing grounds without lights. The Navy is also looking to acquire integrated surveillance systems. It is buying eight Boeing P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, worth $2.1 billion, from the US. The P-8A Poseidona long-range anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance aircraft* will replace the ageing and fuel-guzzling Russian Tupolev-142Ms. The deal has been long in the making, but 26/11 has brought it closer to closure.
> The equipment requirements have altered considerably in recent years, in keeping with the dramatic changes in the special forces employment trends around the world, said an Army officer. The modernisation of the special forces should focus on precision and mobility. In a hilly terrain like Kupwara, the light but effective weapons and other gadgets allow troops to act faster.
> Upgrade of the security forces is part of the governments strategy to prevent spillover of trouble from Pakistan. The surge of elite special forces units would represent a multi-layered effort aimed at strengthening the Army that the defence ministry sees as key to fighting terrorists, said Lt Gen. (retd) Rajinder Singh, who had commanded troops in J&K.
> *Special forces commandos would be the tip of the spear in any Indian attack on terrorist camps in ***************** Kashmir. The special forces are not designed to cover the full range of challenges we face today on the low end of the conflict scale, Singh said. We should prepare them for a large intervention that goes well beyond the use of small packets of troops on lonely hillsides.*
> 
> *Special forces of the world*
> 
> *US*
> US Army Special Forces, the Green Berets, are equipped with sophisticated weapons like long-range sniper systems and M203a 40mm grenade-launcher fitted to SAS rifles
> *UK*
> Its recently formed new special forces unitsSRR & SFSG have a wide range of weaponry like C8 carbine, M16 and its variants, HK G36 and Claymore, a portable anti-personnel mine for defence and ambush
> *Germany*
> Fernspher, members of Germanys elite special force, use weapons with special additions not available to regular troops; the main weapon system is the Heckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, and variants of the HK MP5 SMG
> *Israel*
> Exact weapons of its special force, Sayeret, are not known, but it is one of the best equipped in the world; uses remote-controlled robot to scan tunnels that are used for smuggling
> *China*
> Special Operations Forces is a sub-branch of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army Ground Force; PLAs main infantry rifle is the recently issued QBZ-95; also uses locally-made versions of the Russian AK-47 rifles and SKS series carbines with the Chinese Type 56 assault rifle
> *Pakistan*
> Its Special Service Group is similar to the Green Berets and the British Armys SAS; the SSG weaponry includes Steyr AUG, HK G3, and Type 56 (Chinese AK-47 variant) and HK-MP5 Submachine guns; in sniper, SSG has Steyr MP 69, Finnish Tikka bolt-action and HK PSG1; most of the weapons are of US origin



a few corrections the SRR is new but the SFSG or special forces support group has been there from a long time in the UK ,it is not new.it is actually the 1 para regt. of the the british army and it supports the SAS in many ops.

german army sf is KSK not fernshper or something,geman navy has the kampfschwimmer's and the paramilitary SF is the GSG9 

green berets are currently taking trials of FN-SCAR,they have been impressed with grendel 6.5 round,lwrc psd rifle and their other products.delta's and rangers are using the HK416 along with the M4 as part of their arsenal.

israeli's sayeret matkal,shayetet 13 seems to be keeping all three-galil,tavors,M4.


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## Transgress

Veer said:


> *China*
> Special Operations Forces is a sub-branch of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army Ground Force; PLAs main infantry rifle is the recently issued QBZ-95; also uses locally-made versions of the Russian AK-47 rifles and SKS series carbines with the Chinese Type 56 assault rifle



China`s infantry definitely does not use the SKS, we have millions of QBZ`s and even the type 56 is mainly for militia.


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## boris

Transgress said:


> China`s infantry definitely does not use the SKS, we have millions of QBZ`s and even the type 56 is mainly for militia.



yeah,i havent seen chinese use any other rifles,neither have i had any info from sources about chinese SF.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

The info abt SSG weapons is incomplete they have been seen several times supporting colt M-4,Milkor,SMG-PK ,Steyr SSG 69 7.62mm ,M249s,P90,M-82,range masters,50 cal,dragonov,pof eye ,FN Herstal F2000,ak 103s,101 several varients,glocks,sigs etc etc............ Exact weapons r classified.

P.S=Weapons r procured frm various suppliers USA,UK,EU,Russia nd local.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dark Angel said:


> *c'mone buddy they want it they wear, they dont have to give a reason for it *


*

K..




Did we ever say anything abt ur men wearing salwar kameez

Click to expand...

*


>



None of our SFs wear shalwar kameez..... FC-1 (Paramilitary does) nd they look pretty cool.

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## Water Car Engineer

>



lol

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## Water Car Engineer

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Wats funny kid?these guys have slaughtered the talis in swat n FATA.
> Ask these guys
> 
> 
> 
> For u



I have seen that picture, you have posted before.



> Wats funny kid?these guys have slaughtered the talis in swat n FATA.
> Ask these guys



More power to them.

Anyways..

Some Indian special forces with Russians.











And it seems some MARCOS are getting more armor. And soon to be equipped with Tavors and Galil snipers.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Wats up with the helmets,kevlar vests nd tht ancient machine gun(2:14,second video) of the indian special forces???? seems out dated.

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## angeldemon_007

> So, the government has fast-tracked purchase of two Aerostat air-defence radars and 80 fast-interception vessels for the Navy from Israel to plug gaps in coastal security.


When is this happened ?? I never heard of this deal....any information on this ?//



> India signs deal to buy 15 fast-interception boats from France


Is this deal also reliable ???

I don't get it, how many of these does IN needs....I heard orders of the size of 25-30 given to LnT, Cochin Shipyard, Goa Shipyard and even GRSE(smaller).

Although its good for us...


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## Water Car Engineer

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Wats up with the helmets,kevlar vests nd tht ancient machine gun(2:14,second video) of the indian special forces???? seems out dated.



I dont think they were in the same regiment as the once with the tavors, and I do agree India should replace INSAS. It's actually looking for a gun to replace it..



> As part of the Indian Army's phased future infantry soldier as a system (F-INSAS) programme to create a fully integrated infantry soldier, Army HQ has floated requirements for a new assault rifle that will, potentially, be license-built in large numbers. A questionaire provided with RFI points to what the Army is looking for in its new ambidextrous assault rifle:
> 
> The Army has put down its preference for a modular assault rifle with changeable multiple caliber barrels to support 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm, 6.8x43mm and 6.5 Grendel rounds. The rifle needs to have an integrated sighting system that includes a luminous tipped flip-up iron sight, telescopic sight and a holographic reflex sight with a visible laser illuminator. It clearly wants an advanced under-barrel grenade launcher with a standalone firing mode governed by a multipurpose fire



http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/12/indian-army-scouts-for-f-insas-assault.html

I would like to see most of the sub machine guns replaced with the Indian MSMC.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Liquid said:


> I have seen And it seems some MARCOS are getting more armor. And soon to be equipped with Tavors and Galil snipers.



Wat armour? standard vest(similiar to the one being replaced by Pak army in favour of the ones used by our sf,fc)..
Helmets modern(standard for our army nd replacing the old ones pretty fast...while fc,sf nd fighting troops already been replaced)..

But yeah better than other indian sf nd army.

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## boris

i have serious doubts whether they are indian SF or russian SF,spetsnaz dont like media around them in training exercises.just the tavor alone doesnt mean its SF,RR units too have tavors with them.most army SF joint exercises take place in bangalore(regt. centre),agra(main centre),CIJWS,HAWS,rajhastan(10 PARA SF HQ).

and pakistaninationalist ,indian SF has now amongst the most cutting edge weapons with them though your SSG has great equipment too and is a good SF without doubt.

funny thing is in the 2nd vid the journo says tavor can kill upto 4 km my god even the M82,AS50 cant go beyond 2 km ,when it comes to weapons and even SF indian media is horrible(an its an understatement)


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## boris

Liquid said:


> I dont think they were in the same regiment as the once with the tavors, and I do agree India should replace INSAS. It's actually looking for a gun to replace it..
> 
> 
> 
> Livefist - Indian Defence & Aerospace: Indian Army Scouts For F-INSAS Assault Rifle
> 
> I would like to see most of the sub machine guns replaced with the Indian MSMC.



MSMC looks to be direct copy of the mp7.though with diff. ammo


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## Water Car Engineer

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Wat armour? standard vest(similiar to the one being replaced by Pak army in favour of the ones used by our sf,fc)..
> Helmets modern(standard for our army nd replacing the old ones pretty fast...while fc,sf nd fighting troops already been replaced)..
> 
> But yeah better than other indian sf nd army.



It seems the common Indian soldiers is also getting ballistic helmets and better bullet proof jackets.



> NEW DELHI: Soldiers or humble grunts are often forgotten in the rush to clinch arms deals for main-battle tanks, submarines, and fighter jets. Now, after several years of delay, jawans are finally on course to get modular bullet-proof jackets and ballistic helmets with internal communication gear.
> 
> The new jackets and helmets will not only better protect the head, neck, chest, groin and sides of soldiers but also allow them to move with greater agility than the heavy obsolete ones they are currently saddled with.
> 
> A dozen companies have come forward with their proposals to the Army's tender, under which around 1.5 lakh bullet-proof jackets will be inducted in the first phase, with another 1.8 lakh or so to be acquired in the second round.
> 
> "Trials of the jackets, which will be modular in nature, ergonomically designed and fit snugly to provide maximum protection, will soon be held in Rajasthan deserts and Ladakh mountains," said a senior officer. The jackets, each costing around Rs 50,000, will also be tested in the Terminal Ballistics Research Lab in Chandigarh against the more lethal bullets currently being used by terrorists in J&K.
> 
> "Being modular, the jackets will provide graded levels of protection for different missions. Their weight will depend on the threat level," he said.
> 
> For a "low threat perception" mission, for instance, the jacket will weigh less than 4 kg and have "a trauma pad with all-around soft armour plate, including front, sides, back, collar and neck".
> 
> At the other end, in a high threat mission, the jacket will weigh 10.5-11.5 kg, with "hard armour plates" for front, rear, sides, upper arms, groin and throat, capable of protecting against 7.62mm x 39mm mild steel core ammunition fired from an AK-47 from 10 metre.
> 
> With Army engaged in intensive counter-insurgency operations in J&K and northeast, soldiers certainly need better head and body armour. In 2010, for instance, the force lost 15 officers, 13 JCOs and 159 soldiers in various operations.
> 
> But a soldier's life in India comes cheap. A parliamentary report last year noted the Army was still short of 1,86,138 bullet-proof jackets despite being authorized 3,53,765 new ones way back in March 2004. The situation has not improved much since then, said sources.
> 
> The 1.13-million Army does have a futuristic modernization programme for its foot-soldiers, the F-Insas (future infantry soldier as a system), but it's yet to gather steam.
> 
> F-Insas basically aims at converting a soldier into "a fully-networked all-terrain, all-weather, weapons platform with enhanced lethality, survivability, sustainability, mobility and situational awareness" for the digitized battlefield of the future.
> 
> Under it, infantry soldiers are to progressively get equipment like light-weight integrated ballistic helmets with "heads-up display" and miniaturised communication systems; portable visual, chemical and biological sensors; hand-held computer displays, GPS and video links; "smart" vests with sensors to monitor vital body signs; and lethal firepower with laser-guided modular weapon



Bulletproof jackets for troops - The Times of India





> MSMC looks to be direct copy of the mp7.though with diff. ammo




*MSMC*






*mp7*






They look different enough.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Liquid said:


> I would like to see most of the sub machine guns replaced with the Indian MSMC.



Looks cool...........

For our army i want this PK-10(under testing/developmen..........POF)......but dont know if theyd accept 5.62 calib.

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## boris

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Looks cool...........
> 
> For our army i want this PK-10(under testing/developmen..........POF)......but dont know if theyd accept 5.62 calib.



pk-10 is very good,SAS use it in bodyguard duty in the overt formation.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Liquid said:


> It seems the common Indian soldiers is also getting ballistic helmets and better bullet proof jackets.
> 
> 
> 
> Bulletproof jackets for troops - The Times of India.



Does tht mean tht ballistic helmets nd bullet proof jackets r not a standard issue for common indian soldiers till now???? We have been using them since years.

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## boris

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Does tht mean tht ballistic helmets nd bullet proof jackets r not a standard issue for common indian soldiers till now???? We have been using them since years.



vests were there but not ballistic helmets.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

boris said:


> pk-10 is very good,SAS use it in bodyguard duty in the overt formation.



PK-10 is not yet inducted.....its under testing with SSG.....Developed by Pakistan Ordinance Factory(POF).

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## boris

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> PK-10 is not yet inducted.....its under testing with SSG.....Developed by Pakistan Ordinance Factory(POF).



i wrote british SAS


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## Water Car Engineer

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Does tht mean tht ballistic helmets nd bullet proof jackets r not a standard issue for common indian soldiers till now???? We have been using them since years.



Not Ballistic helmets for standard army..











In Kashmir the paras are armed similar to this.

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## boris

and also the pk-10 is in actual the HK33 rifle which is the version used by SAS,POF having the license from HK designates it as pk-10


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## DESERT FIGHTER

How is the patka helmet?


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## boris

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> How is the patka helmet?



it does the job


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## DESERT FIGHTER

boris said:


> and also the pk-10 is in actual the HK33 rifle which is the version used by SAS,POF having the license from HK designates it as pk-10



Not really...... Pakistan only produces G3A3 under license....Look at the above weapon...Its sort of a hybrid........ shorter,lighter,more modern.. Look at the barel and the body carefully...... its barel is short... the fiber body instead of steal...... It also uses parts frm MP-5 and other indigenous stuff......While HK-33(which Pakistan doesnt produce) is similiar to G3A3 except the 5.62 mm calib.

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## Hindustani

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> How is the patka helmet?



















SECURE Mobile (India) is the sole proprietor of the design in respect of Bullet Proof PATKA (Safety Head Gear), which is duly registered with the patent Office, Govt. of India under Registration No. 170699 and 170700, which are valid, subsisting and in force. Thus, SECURE have the sole right of manufacturing and marketing the PATKA in the country.

SECURE is only the Manufacturer & Supplier of PATKA to Northern and Eastern Command (Indian Army).

The PATKA are available for Soldiers and Officers. Having protection for 9 mm at rear from 10 mtrs. And from 25 mtrc. AK47 or SLR at forehead. The weight of PATKA will be approx. 1.4 kg to 1.7 kg.

However, SECURE R&D is doing its best to reduce the weight and giving more protection area for lower and higher velocity bullets as well as for fragments of Artillery and Bomb Shell.

We, at SECURE have developed another model of PATKA (2110M modified) using anti corrosive coating with Steel Band which has an added feature of Steel Band corrosive productions not are in the Secure 2110 Secure 2111 PATKA models would also have add on for Ear & Neck protection against 9 mm and 17 grain Steel fragments of Bomb and Artillery Shells, as also against all kinds of Improvised Explosive Devices (IED). 

If you don't find what you are looking for in this catalogue that does not mean it is not available. We are capable of modifying and designing to meet the specifications and exact customer's requirements, whether it be just a minor adjustment or major alteration.

SECURE-2110 Model, Bullet Proof PATKA (Steel Plane) for AK-47 at Front and 9 mm, at Rear.

SECURE-2110 M (Modified) Model, Bullet Proof PATKA (Steel Plane) with Specially Anti Corrosive coating for AK-47 At Front and 9 mm, at rear.

SECURE-2111 Model, Bullet Proof PATKA (Steel Plane) for AK-47 at Front and 9 mm, at rear & 9 mm protection with Kevlar Padding at Neck & Ear.



Bullet Proof Patka, Bullet Proof Helmet (PASGT), Bullet Proof Products, Aromoured Vehicles, Bullet proof Cars, Bullet Proof Vans, Bullet Proof Jackets, Bullet Proof Morcha, Bullet Proof Podium,Bullet Proof Products, Bullet Proof Lecture Stand, Bullet

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## boris

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Not really...... Pakistan only produces G3A3 under license....Look at the above weapon...Its sort of a hybrid........ shorter,lighter,more modern.. Look at the barel and the body carefully...... its barel is short... the fiber body instead of steal...... It also uses parts frm MP-5 and other indigenous stuff......While HK-33(which Pakistan doesnt produce) is similiar to G3A3 except the 5.62 mm calib.



i think pakistan also produces mp5,looking at your photo closely the barrel is different,handle-trigger reminds of mp5,rails and grids for scopes are also different.


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## Water Car Engineer

BTW here are some Indian made vests and helmets. That could be used for the special forces.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## boris

the indian company MKU a private firm makes great ballistic helmets used by even police units in the US and they export to over 40 countries

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## Hindustani

@Liquid militaryphotos I see

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## Water Car Engineer

Hindustani said:


> @Liquid militaryphotos I see



Ya, it had a thread about DefExpo 2010

Defexpo-India 2010

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## angeldemon_007

> Border security Force (BSF) considering buying C-27J or CASA C295
> 
> Border security Force (BSF) is considering buying C-27J or CASA C295 which have been recently been evaluated by them , BSF clearly wants to reduce its dependency on Indian Air force (IAF) for carrying its logistics supplies to forward border post , BSF is considering to purchase two Medium transport aircraft initially but the orders will go up when the requirements for more arises .
> 
> IAF is also looking to induct up to 16 aircrafts for its medium transport role and interestingly both C-27J or CASA C295 are in race for IAF tender also which was issued last year , as per reports both IAF and BSF are in cooperation and are evaluating the aircrafts, Home Ministry will come out soon and declare winner in this tender , BSF have been using IAF AN-32 and Dornier for their Logistics and troop transport in past .


Any news on this deal....???/



> The 1.13-million Army does have a futuristic modernization programme for its foot-soldiers, the F-Insas (future infantry soldier as a system), but it's yet to gather steam.


At least army could have poured some money on this indigenous project. When it would be ready it would take a decadde to arm our forces with FINSAS. 
This project should have been the priority. I doubt what our MOD and army is doing ??/

There were also reports of indian army using DRDO's laser dazzler by the end of 2010. What happened to that ??/


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## IndianArmy



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## IndianArmy



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## Abingdonboy

IndianArmy said:


>



Sorry, these guys are not SF, they are members of the GHATAK platoon belonging to this regiment. No SF from either side took place in this exercise.

I suppose it's a good thing if infantrymen are now being mistaken for SF though!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Sorry, these guys are not SF, they are members of the GHATAK platoon belonging to this regiment. No SF from either side took place in this exercise.
> 
> I suppose it's a good thing if infantrymen are now being mistaken for SF though!



Dude,in this excercise both Infantrymen and SF personnel took part.

The guys with the new helmet are Para guys and the others you get to see in the videos posted in youtube carrying Insas LMG are Infantrymen.

In one video i saw of the excercise the Infantrymen were on the outer ring and SF personnel were going in for the room intervention ..was very impressive.

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## Abingdonboy

I'm sorry but I believe you are wrong can you please provide me with a source that paras (sf) took place. It is incorrect in my opinion and am sure that no sf took place instead it was an infantry-infantry exercise.usually sf personal exercise with other sf (US SF and Para cmds took conducted and ex a few years back as did SAS and Para cmds) and there were no spetznetz in this ex.


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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm sorry but I believe you are wrong can you please provide me with a source that paras (sf) took place. It is incorrect in my opinion and am sure that no sf took place instead it was an infantry-infantry exercise.usually sf personal exercise with other sf (US SF and Para cmds took conducted and ex a few years back as did SAS and Para cmds) and there were no spetznetz in this ex.



you are right as far as russian spetsnaz is concerned specially the spetsnaz GRU they rarely have joint sf exercises and when they have they dont like media participation till now AFAIK only 2 spetsnaz GRU pics are there on the internet.

secondly if you think tavors means SF then no, ghataks have tavors too and also crpf is getting tavors,indian SF mostly holds joint exercises where their bases are stationed like right now the king of brunei had come last year to bangalore to the SF base.jungle and high altitutde warfare exercises take place at CIJWS and HAWS.

the only unit that has come from USSF is the 1ST SFG of the green berets ,many of you might not know this but green berets are divided into 7 units and each unit is tasked with a different location the idea being all 7 units end up covering the entire world,india comes under 1st SFG(special forces group),as far as delta's and devgru is concenred i have no idea if they came here for joint exercises as they are highly classified,recently both had their names changed with delta becoming CAG(combat applications group) and devgru's new name hasnt been out yet.

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## boris

and forget to mention all indian SF(para,marcos,garuds) wear the maroon beret now ,with diff. insignia ofcourse.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm sorry but I believe you are wrong can you please provide me with a source that paras (sf) took place. It is incorrect in my opinion and am sure that no sf took place instead it was an infantry-infantry exercise.usually sf personal exercise with other sf (US SF and Para cmds took conducted and ex a few years back as did SAS and Para cmds) and there were no spetznetz in this ex.



Firstly,those helmets you see are for Para's as of now.You wont find any Ghatak or any Infantryman wearing that helmet.

Secondly,i have never seen a Tavor in the hands of Ghatak till now.Tavors are only for SF as of now..ya the talks of Ghataks having it is going on.

Thirdly,i dont have any link for this but i came to know from my source that Paras took part..and in some articles you read it is mentioned that airborne troops of IA took part which obviously means Paras...you can believe me if you want to or you can belive they are Ghatak..but i will still tell you that Ghataks dont carry Tavors..their weapon of choice is AK.

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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> Firstly,those helmets you see are for Para's as of now.You wont find any Ghatak or any Infantryman wearing that helmet.
> 
> Secondly,i have never seen a Tavor in the hands of Ghatak till now.Tavors are only for SF as of now..ya the talks of Ghataks having it is going on.
> 
> Thirdly,i dont have any link for this but i came to know from my source that Paras took part..and in some articles you read it is mentioned that airborne troops of IA took part which obviously means Paras...you can believe me if you want to or you can belive they are Ghatak..but i will still tell you that Ghataks dont carry Tavors..their weapon of choice is AK.



buddy incidentally i happen to have sources within the para and they said themselves SF weren't there with the russians ,SF here is currently more into indo-US exercises,though they could be from 5,6,7 para which is the airborne unit not SF.russians are very secretive with their spetsnaz.


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## boris

ghataks in CI ops are being tavors by units favoring them over the AK,tavors landed with SF in 2004 and many other infantry units did some trials to see if they could get some.media wont portray it as it isnt as glamorous a title such as 
"MARCOS to get tavor/galil rifles".

you will be even surprised to know some operators within SF from army like the vz 58 over tavor in rough terrains.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> ghataks in CI ops are being tavors by units favoring them over the AK,tavors landed with SF in 2004 and many other infantry units did some trials to see if they could get some.media wont portray it as it isnt as glamorous a title such as
> "MARCOS to get tavor/galil rifles".
> 
> you will be even surprised to know some operators within SF from army like the vz 58 over tavor in rough terrains.



Dude,i hope you are right but i have been with some Ghataks myself and if they had Tavor i wont have been posing with an INSAS in my pic. 


Maybe the guys you are talking about have got it first and the guys i spent time with will be getting lateron.


Regarding the participation of Para...the helmet they are wearing is for the Para's...the Para get first whatever the Army buys and lateron comes the chance of Ghatak and regular infantrymen.

I would be very happy to know that Para didnt take part...but those helmets i dont think Ghataks have and secondly i trust my source.


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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> Dude,i hope you are right but i have been with some Ghataks myself and if they had Tavor i wont have been posing with an INSAS in my pic.
> 
> 
> Maybe the guys you are talking about have got it first and the guys i spent time with will be getting lateron.
> 
> 
> Regarding the participation of Para...the helmet they are wearing is for the Para's...the Para get first whatever the Army buys and lateron comes the chance of Ghatak and regular infantrymen.
> 
> I would be very happy to know that Para didnt take part...but those helmets i dont think Ghataks have and secondly i trust my source.



as i wrote they could be from 5,6,7 para, though you have raised some very good observations too.

yes para especially the para sf gets the cream stuff especially post 26/11 when their demands were taken seriously,what i am still to confirm is were MARCOS using AK 101,103 in wular lake operations before they got tavors.


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## angeldemon_007

> Secondly,i have never seen a Tavor in the hands of Ghatak till now.Tavors are only for SF as of now..ya the talks of Ghataks having it is going on.


I am not sure about ghatak but all special forces in india will now operate tavor. Apart from this RR in Kashmir also uses tavor.
Now CRPF is also using tavor. An order of 10,147 tavor was given. CRPF also used it in Lalgarh.

Read this article...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/74924-crpf-get-tavors.html

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## IndianArmy

Abingdonboy said:


> Sorry, these guys are not SF, they are members of the GHATAK platoon belonging to this regiment. No SF from either side took place in this exercise.
> 
> I suppose it's a good thing if infantrymen are now being mistaken for SF though!



Yes , They are Ghatak Commandos of the Army's 99 Mountain Brigade , But The thread dosent deal With Special Forces Alone, Looking at the Title I guess.....

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## angeldemon_007

> the indian company MKU a private firm makes great ballistic helmets used by even police units in the US and they export to over 40 countries


I heard about this company once, but after checking out their website, i could only say : What the hell our govt. is doing. We should place the order instantly...
Just for once, these people in MOD should stop thinking about corruption. It would be cheaper and i think its very good quality...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> I am not sure about ghatak but all special forces in india will now operate tavor. Apart from this RR in Kashmir also uses tavor.
> Now CRPF is also using tavor. An order of 10,147 tavor was given. CRPF also used it in Lalgarh.
> 
> Read this article...
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/74924-crpf-get-tavors.html



Firstly,I would not say Ghatak is a special force..they are more like very well trained Infantrymen.

Secondly,orders have been given but i dont think they have got it as of now...will take time.


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## angeldemon_007

> Firstly,I would not say Ghatak is a special force..


Sorry, i didn't said Ghatak is a SF.



> Secondly,orders have been given but i dont think they have got it as of now...will take time.


Are you talking about CRPF ??/ Then read the article first...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> Are you talking about CRPF ??/ Then read the article first...



No dude..i am talking about the point you raised that 'all SF will be having Tavor'...so i replied that it will take time for all SF to have them as orders have been given.

Marcos,Garuda dont have it currently...correct me if i am wrong.


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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> No dude..i am talking about the point you raised that 'all SF will be having Tavor'...so i replied that it will take time for all SF to have them as orders have been given.
> 
> Marcos,Garuda dont have it currently...correct me if i am wrong.



marcos got their tavors a few days back...garuds have them since 2009,the 7 para sf units got m4a1's a few months back along with other things.


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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> marcos got their tavors a few days back...garuds have them since 2009,the 7 para sf units got m4a1's a few months back along with other things.



Not that I don't belive you but can we have some links. I know about the MARCOS getting Tavors and Galils but some extra info in 7 Para getting M4s not heard of it. Plus I'm pretty sure 7 Para are not SF right? and why would only one Para battalion get it and not the others??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> marcos got their tavors a few days back...garuds have them since 2009,the 7 para sf units got m4a1's a few months back along with other things.



I didnt know Garuds had Tavors..can you post a few pics?


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## killeragent

Dark Angel said:


> *c'mone buddy they want it they wear, they dont have to give a reason for it
> 
> Did we ever say anything abt ur men wearing salwar kameez*





The best retort comment i read on forum..


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## boris

/i/indianarmyonsalisburypl.jpg/[/IMG]


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## boris

sniper is of para sf

and coldhearted dude,last two pics are of garuds during joint indo-us exercises,first pic you can see both garuds and americans having tavors


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## boris




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## boris

indian special forces with american airborne troops in alaska during yudh abhyas 2010


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## boris

following are pics of british sf both SAS and SBS in IRAQ

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## boris

now SAS,SBS in afghanistan

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> /i/indianarmyonsalisburypl.jpg/[/IMG]



First pic is of Para sniper.

Second pic is of joint excercise of Indian and US Army held in CIJWS.

Third pic also is not of Garuda coz they dont wear black dress.


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## boris

you sure??the heli is of IAF,army uses its own helis and garuds wear black dress for some CT training


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## boris

@abingdonboy,coldhearted dude,angeldemon 007 i am PM'ing you a link please see it

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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> @abingdonboy,coldhearted dude,angeldemon 007 i am PM'ing you a link please see it



Thanks, very interesting pic, but what has this got to do with indian SF?

or India at all??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> you sure??the heli is of IAF,army uses its own helis and garuds wear black dress for some CT training



I am sure man...Garuds dont wear black dress..there are some pics of Garuds wearing camo and covering their face with black mask while doing CT training.

That excercise was held a few years ago in CIJWS and i remember watching a video where a US Army soldier was interviewed and he was asked how good is the Indian Army to which he replied "definitely one of the best i have trained with"........so i m pretty sure of this.


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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> I am sure man...Garuds dont wear black dress..there are some pics of Garuds wearing amo and covering their face with black mask while doing CT training.
> 
> That excercise was held a few years ago in CIJWS and i remember watching a video where a US Army soldier was interviewed and he was asked how good is the Indian Army to which he replied "definitely one of the best i have trained with"........so i m pretty sure of this.



point taken


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## DESERT FIGHTER

boris said:


> i think pakistan also produces mp5,looking at your photo closely the barrel is different,handle-trigger reminds of mp5,rails and grids for scopes are also different.



Yeah POF does produce mp5a3 as the main CQB weapon aswell as upgraded varient of Ak series,PSR 90 sniper rifle,MG3,DsHk,SMG PK-1 etc


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## angeldemon_007

> Dude,i hope you are right but i have been with some Ghataks myself and if they had Tavor i wont have been posing with an INSAS in my pic.


Good for you...but read the equipment used on this web page.
Ghatak Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Marcos,Garuda dont have it currently...correct me if i am wrong.


Read this article
Israeli TAR-21 Tavor Assault Rifles for Indian Navy Commandos | India Defence
Marcos have also received them in dec 2010. It is tested and induction will be done in the next month.



> First pic is of Para sniper.
> 
> Second pic is of joint excercise of Indian and US Army held in CIJWS.
> 
> Third pic also is not of Garuda coz they dont wear black dress.


true...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> Good for you...but read the equipment used on this web page.
> Ghatak Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Firstly,i dont trust Wikipedia.

Secondly,whatever the Army buys for the soldier..it wil first go to the Paras and then everybody else...so those helmets you see are new to the Army and i dont think Ghataks would get it before the Paras.

In the Army there is a priority given to the Paras coz of the job they do.

Thirdly,i dont know if the RR has Tavors or not but i will tell you something...

*The RR personnel go on operation with the Para guys...so those soldiers you see standing in front of RR vehicles can very well be Para guys.

*Now where do you think RR personnel come from..the Army right?..ya but how are they alloted a unit in RR?..they are alloted a unit depending upon their regiment...every regiment has 2-3 RR battalions to which they send their troops.

Like the Kumaon regtt will have 1st 8th and 23 rr battalion(just giving an example..not giving the exact no of the battalion).

So my point is like every regiment has its RR..the Para also has its RR battalion...now how the heck can you be soo sure that those guys carrying Tavors are not from a RR which belongs to Para??

If anyone can prove here that Ghataks also have those helmets..i would be happy to accept my mistake and do please show me some pics of Ghataks wearing those helmets and carrying Tavors.


Lastly i have seen videos of that excercise in youtube and i dont think they are Ghatak of the simple reason they were so good with their room intervention drills..i have seen Ghataks do room intervention and their techniques are different.

Anyways,feel free to disagree and i will be more than happy if they are Ghataks coz of the equipment they have got and the superb skills they were showing.
________________________________________

Now the Marcos news of getting Tavors i recently read but do show me some pics of Garuds carrying Tavors..if you can find any.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I am not too fond of wikipedia and i believe what i see..in VAYU SHAKTI 2010 the Garuds took part..and if they had Tavors..i see no reason why they wont show it to the whole world considering it was a show off excercise..but cant see any tavors here...can you?????????


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@ boris

my friend..here is a pic of Garuds doing CT trainning.


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## angeldemon_007

> Secondly,whatever the Army buys for the soldier..it wil first go to the Paras and then everybody else...so those helmets you see are new to the Army and i dont think Ghataks would get it before the Paras.


I never said first the equipment went to ghatak and then to para. Paras are the SF, so its obvious they will get the best equipment and that too at first.



> I am not too fond of wikipedia and i believe what i see..in VAYU SHAKTI 2010 the Garuds took part..and if they had Tavors..i see no reason why they wont show it to the whole world considering it was a show off excercise..but cant see any tavors here...can you?????????


I also posted news articles. Look it might be possible that not all the garuds have Tavor. Just like navy ordered only 500 tavor but the actual strength of Marcos is more than that.



> The RR personnel go on operation with the Para guys...so those soldiers you see standing in front of RR vehicles can very well be Para guys.


Just google it buddy...you will find many articles of RR using tavor, also you can distinguish between a para commando and a RR soldier because officially paras have many things through which you can distinguish them from others (not just maroon cap).



> So my point is like every regiment has its RR..the Para also has its RR battalion...now how the heck can you be soo sure that those guys carrying Tavors are not from a RR which belongs to Para??


Thats the first time i am hearing such kind of statement. Where did you came with this?? Any source ??/



> The Rashtriya Rifles is a counter-insurgency/anti-terrorist force in India. It is a paramilitary force deployed in Jammu and Kashmir and is considered the world's largest dedicated counter-insurgency force in the world.





> If anyone can prove here that Ghataks also have those helmets..


Why you are emphasizing on helmets. I am talking about tavor.



> Anyways,feel free to disagree and i will be more than happy if they are Ghataks coz of the equipment they have got and the superb skills they were showing.


I am not sure who they are. After a lot of searching i found this...

*A Naga regiment of the Mountain Brigade of Central Command Division took part in this exercise along with Russian troops*
Also no signs of SF is there, might be hidden but still i doubt these soldiers are SF.

*A most suitable explanation *: Our army just wanted to show that we are also well equipped and hence they showed tavor, new helmets(although i didn't like the helmets lookwise) and new bullet proof jackets.


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## angeldemon_007

I hate this article but unfortunately its true...
*Broken Promises Rattle Indian Operators*

December 1, 2010: The Indian Army has another Special Forces crises on its hands. One components of Indian special operations, the Para-Commando force, is adding an eighth battalion. There are growing complaints that the troops involved are not getting adequate training or equipment. This is an increasingly common issue for all the Special Forces troops. India has several different special operations groups and, each of these groups has a specific mission, and all too often, serious problems with the government bureaucracy.
Para Commandos form the parachute infantry of the Army, but have been given additional training and equipment to enable them to carry out commando type operations.

The Special Protection group are assigned the task of protection for India's Prime Minister and VIPs from terrorist attacks.

The elite MARCOS unit acts as India's Navy SEAL teams and performs special ops on the high seas.

The primary counter-terror unit in the country, however, are the 15,000 National Security Guards and the ones who have borne most of the responsibility for tackling India's persistent insurgent problems over the last couple of decades. 

The army is in the process of forming a force of over 7,200 commandos so that each of the 359 infantry battalions in the army will have a twenty man Ghatak (commando) platoon. While this gives each battalion some shock troops, it also increases discontent among the rest of the troops, who now see modern equipment up close, and wonder why they don't have it.

India has been increasing spending on equipment for its ground forces over the last decade, but these efforts have been uneven. Some of this has been caused by corruption. Like many other nations, India has long had problems with kickbacks and favoritism in defense procurement. But it's been worse with India, which ranks 87 (out of 180) in an international survey of least corrupt nations. Last year India was 84. India has responded with a major effort to halt corruption in defense matters, but this has stalled some procurement efforts.

The end result of this is that India is under increasing pressure, from below, to honor promises to upgrade the weapons and equipment of the infantry forces. These troops have fallen far behind other armies, and the troops, and especially their officers, are not being quiet about it. But government plans to upgrade infantry weapons and equipment have not amounted to much. The troops are not happy with this.

While India spends a lot of money on its fighter aircraft, naval vessels, and heavy ground equipment like tanks and APCs, very little is spent on taking care of the infantry. This isn't unique to the Indians, it just happens that the infantry historically doesn't get first grab at funds within the military and are usually at the bottom of the list when it comes to spending in general.

The government tries. It has already, with great fanfare, announced an effort to design and create its own version of the U.S. Army Land Warrior system. Countries around the world have been designing, trying out, and testing similar combat systems for over ten years now, including Britain, France, and Germany. The Indian effort is not going well. The Indians version is INSAS (Infantry-Soldier-As-A-System). One of the major things the Indians want to build as part of the program is a domestically produced multi-caliber individual weapon and a programmable airbursting grenade launcher for the infantry. This is basically the exact same thing that the U.S. Army's OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) was supposed to be. The Indians are hoping their weapon will be more successful. But so far, progress, much less success, has been scarce.

Other plans include introducing new anti-tank weaponry, laser rangefinders, a new carbine/submachine gun, new combat uniforms for the infantry, better communications, and improved body armor. The new platform, the Indians are hoping, will reduce the load carried by the individual soldier by 50 percent. The helmet device the Indians are designing is equipped with video cameras, thermal sensors, and a visor set-up that contains two computer monitors. Plans to issue each infantryman with a "palmtop" computer are a high priority. But there's little to show for all these ambitious plans.

Despite the massive amounts of money the Indians are spending on their military, equipping all 28 infantry regiments with the new system (which hasn't been designed or manufactured yet) by 2020 is already being recognized by members of the Indian military as a major drain on resources, and not really possible. Even for a wealthy country like France or the US, completely re-equipping 28 regiments with entirely new weapons and gear is an expensive and lengthy proposition.

Most of the Indian sergeants and junior officers, trained in the practical and common sense tradition of the British Army, would be happier with more modest goals, like an improved assault rifle, better boots, and body armor that actually stops bullets, rather than with a computerized infantry system that shoots around corners and gives the troops instant message capabilities. In particular, better load bearing gear and better quality rations tend to be high on the list of wants for the foot soldier, especially in a country like India.

The sergeants and junior leaders are also smart enough to realize that the country is getting ahead of itself. The Indian Army, for example, only introduced their current standard assault rifle, the 5.56mm INSAS (Indian National Small Arms System) during the late 1990s and even this weapon has yet to be issued to every soldier in the Army, particularly in reserve units. About 300,000 are currently in circulation in the Army, including the carbine and light machine gun versions. Older equipment is still in use and, in a country like India, introducing and issuing any kind of new weapons or gear to every single soldier in the Army is an expensive, lengthy, and often difficult task.

Seven years ago, the government attempted a stopgap. They spent $65 million over the next four years to train and equip a commando ("Ghatak") platoon for each of its infantry battalions. The new platoons were intended to make the infantry more effective in dealing with irregulars in Kashmir and the northeast tribal areas. The Ghatak troops would be trained to perform commando type operations (raids, long range patrols), especially at night. Thus one of the things the Ghatak troops will get will be night vision equipment. There will also be more radios, probably including individual radios. There will also be additional weapons (sniper rifles, more compact assault rifles, day/night scopes) as well. The Ghatak training enabled the troops to specialize in the more dangerous aspects of dealing with irregulars, thus making duty against irregulars less unpopular with the troops.

In addition to the Ghatak units, $62 million was spent to equip engineers with better mine detection and clearing equipment, as well as equipment for detecting and disabling all manner of explosive devices irregular forces use in ambushes. The mines and booby traps are, as can be imagined, bad for troop morale, and this program is expected to be even more popular than the Ghatak platoons.

The 20 man Ghatak platoons gave each battalion some shock troops. The army also added modern equipment to units in crucial areas, like Kashmir, where soldiers fighting Islamic terrorists from Pakistan, got night vision gear and better radios to deal with the situation. But for the rest of the infantry, second best was all they could expect.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@ angeldemon

RR has personnel from the Army and every Regiment has dedicated RR battalions to which they send their troops...i didnt get it from anywhere coz i know it is like this coz i have seen it...you dont wanna trust me then dont trust but it is how it is.

Secondly, the reason why i am talking about helmets is coz i always look at few things when judging which regtt a soldier belongs to and these are:-
*epaulete
*beret
*colour of the rank insignia
and in this case helmet coz other things are not visible.

Garuds if had Tavors would have definiitely displayed it in that excercise...coz only the cream of Garuds would have got Tavors and i believe that the cream of the Garuds were participating in that excercise.

Lastly dude..i have grown up in Army cantonments and i believe in what i see...i dont rely on internet links for my knowledge and no one can make me believe on those links also when i am not seeing it....you can either believe me or not...its your choice and i am not forcing ou to believe also.

If at all i will believe anything is the pics...if you got any pics of Garuds with Tavor then provide it...afterall i provided the pics to prove my point.

And regarding that Indira 2010..there is also mentioned in the article that airborne troops of the IA took part.


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## angeldemon_007

> Lastly dude..i have grown up in Army cantonments and i believe in what i see...


ok, fair enough....i also have a lot of relative in army but the situation is not exactly like yours. But i would really like you to summarize.



> Garuds if had Tavors would have definiitely displayed it in that excercise...


Look buddy, if special forces operate alot of weapons, that does not mean they display all of them. I would say, lets wait for Aero India, you might see garuds with tavor this time.


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## Capt.Popeye

angeldemon_007 said:


> I hate this article but unfortunately its true...
> *Broken Promises Rattle Indian Operators*



@ angeldemon_007;
please provide the source for your post as above.


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## angeldemon_007

I was just searching through the web when i found this....look whatever is the source but many things are correct.

Special Operations: Broken Promises Rattle Indian Operators


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## Capt.Popeye

angeldemon_007 said:


> I was just searching through the web when i found this....look whatever is the source but many things are correct.
> 
> Special Operations: Broken Promises Rattle Indian Operators




The source (and the other sources) are not the main issue, but that some times determines a "slant" that is assigned to information.
Some of the information may factual, while some of it is inference. But you can separate the wheat from the chaff based again on your facts and your inferences.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> ok, fair enough....i also have a lot of relative in army but the situation is not exactly like yours. But i would really like you to summarize.
> 
> 
> Look buddy, if special forces operate alot of weapons, that does not mean they display all of them. I would say, lets wait for Aero India, you might see garuds with tavor this time.



Fair enough..but if its your birthday and and you have thrown a party..i am sure you will wear your best clothes...i am talking about Garuds and the recent excercise.

Secondly,the army has 364 infantry battalions and i am talking about the ones i have seen....and my point was that i havent seen Ghataks with Tavor...maybe your relatives Unit has got Tavor for its Ghatak..in which case you should provide some pics if you can.

Thirdly,do ask your relative from where does RR units get its soldiers and officers and i am sure you wont find a different answer from what i have given coz many people i know have served the RR.


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## boris

latest update:

i talked to my friend in the SF,yes SF was involved but in a supervisory role.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> latest update:
> 
> i talked to my friend in the SF,yes SF was involved but in a supervisory role.



Good...but who did that room intervention operation?


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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> Good...but who did that room intervention operation?



he didnt know about it as his unit wasnt there but the SF were present ,russians didnt send their SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> he didnt know about it as his unit wasnt there but the SF were present ,russians didnt send their SF



Thanks a lot buddy! 

and it proves my point that the internet link was wrong as SF were present.


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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> Thanks a lot buddy!
> 
> and it proves my point that the internet link was wrong as SF were present.



you are welcome mate


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## angeldemon_007

> Thanks a lot buddy!
> 
> and it proves my point that the internet link was wrong as SF were present.


I thought you were betting your life on those helmets and BP jackets. You said they are SF since they were using tavor and helmets.


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## zombieland

I had heard about your F - INSAS program... the stuff looked good... 

Is there any advancement in that ... or is it stuck in the political circles as your MMRCA program ...


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## boris

zombieland said:


> I had heard about your F - INSAS program... the stuff looked good...
> 
> Is there any advancement in that ... or is it stuck in the political circles as your MMRCA program ...



for all SF,paratroopers,NSG,SFF it will go as planned due to small numbers 

for the normal infantry regiments it wont due to very large numbers


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## IndianArmy

zombieland said:


> I had heard about your F - INSAS program... the stuff looked good...
> 
> Is there any advancement in that ... or is it stuck in the political circles as your MMRCA program ...



F-INSAS is a 60% Pvt and 40% Govt Initiative, so even if it takes Time, Quality wouldn't be Compromised.... Its still In its Pre production Stages although Prototypes have Been shown In defense Expo's.. Can See the Induction soon....

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## boris

according to many people these are two authentic images of the spetsnaz GRU(main russian SF unit)on the internet one is during the afghan invasion ,second is from georgian conflict in 2008

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------












according to many people these are two authentic images of the spetsnaz GRU(main russian SF unit)on the internet one is during the afghan invasion ,second is from georgian conflict in 2008


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> I thought you were betting your life on those helmets and BP jackets. You said they are SF since they were using tavor and helmets.



I said...my source told me that SF participated..which is correct...as oppososed to you providing so many links they didnt.

Secondly..I guessed they were SF..from their helmets,Guns and techniques....to which you said that it is not possible coz SF didnt take part...and now since BORIS has confirmed this....the odds are less in your favour now coz earlier you were not willing to accept that SF took part.

Lastly...i didnt bet my life on anything...and you didnt prove me wrong a singlle time...

I asked you to provide Garuda pics with Tavor..you didnt...I did with Insas as i said.

You imagine RR is a force which gets is troops from god knows where...i gave you the correct answer..and still you have no clue.

You were the one saying SF troopss didnt take part and NAGA battalion took part...to which i said SF took part..and i am right...and till now no one has proved they are Ghatak...only the debate has opened now...thanks to BORIS.

So my friend...where i am wrong...you are the one who is not willing to listen and increasing the length of the debate coz 'times of India' didnt say so(about SF participation)


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## angeldemon_007

> I had heard about your F - INSAS program... the stuff looked good...
> 
> Is there any advancement in that ... or is it stuck in the political circles as your MMRCA program ...


Much worse, people have forgotten about it. Its going bu swuch a poor rate that our forces have started to modernize our SF without waiting for this hope-less project.


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## KS

RR is taken from the Army. All regiments contribute troops to the RR on a rotation basis.

My friend's bro is in RR - CIF (K) and he is from the 14 MLI or 17 RR MLI (not sure which one)


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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> I said...my source told me that SF participated..which is correct...as oppososed to you providing so many links they didnt.
> 
> Secondly..I guessed they were SF..from their helmets,Guns and techniques....to which you said that it is not possible coz SF didnt take part...and now since BORIS has confirmed this....the odds are less in your favour now coz earlier you were not willing to accept that SF took part.
> 
> Lastly...i didnt bet my life on anything...and you didnt prove me wrong a singlle time...
> 
> I asked you to provide Garuda pics with Tavor..you didnt...I did with Insas as i said.
> 
> You imagine RR is a force which gets is troops from god knows where...i gave you the correct answer..and still you have no clue.
> 
> You were the one saying SF troopss didnt take part and NAGA battalion took part...to which i said SF took part..and i am right...and till now no one has proved they are Ghatak...only the debate has opened now...thanks to BORIS.
> 
> So my friend...where i am wrong...you are the one who is not willing to listen and increasing the length of the debate coz 'times of India' didnt say so(about SF participation)



chill man ,you are giving me too much credit


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> chill man ,you are giving me too much credit


You deserve it man..you confirmed what i said.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Anyone wondering what we are debating on..then this is the subject of our debate:-


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR




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## boris

MARCOS


























the previous 2 are one obama came to india and marcos provided security

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

A pic of CRPF with Tavor...Good for the guys in uniform.

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## Abingdonboy

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> A pic of CRPF with Tavor...Good for the guys in uniform.



SWEET.... not the standard Tavor either- looks lice the MTAR or CTAR?
IMI Tavor TAR-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

can anyone tell me if these members of the CRPF are a special unit (SWAT/QRT/ERT etc...??) And is that a earpeice I can see in his right ear??

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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> SWEET.... not the standard Tavor either- looks lice the MTAR or CTAR?
> IMI Tavor TAR-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> can anyone tell me if these members of the CRPF are a special unit (SWAT/QRT/ERT etc...??) And is that a earpeice I can see in his right ear??



they are a paramilitary unit ,they assist state police in fighting insurgency like in naxal areas and kashmir


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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> they are a paramilitary unit ,they assist state police in fighting insurgency like in naxal areas and kashmir



lol! I know what the CRPF are but I want to know are these a special sub unit of the CRPF or just ordinary officers??

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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> lol! I know what the CRPF are but I want to know are these a special sub unit of the CRPF or just ordinary officers??



no idea,i think cold hearted dude might know


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> SWEET.... not the standard Tavor either- looks lice the MTAR or CTAR?
> IMI Tavor TAR-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> can anyone tell me if these members of the CRPF are a special unit (SWAT/QRT/ERT etc...??) And is that a earpeice I can see in his right ear??



Ya..that is a earpiece in his right ear.

Got no idea who they are..as far as i know CRPF has COBRA commandos and that is not for Kashmir but naxalite areas.

Maybe QRT...even ROP..but got no info.

I think just the regular foot soldiers getting it...as no special force of CRPF is in Kashmir.


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## angeldemon_007

You are one stubborn teenager...


> I said...my source told me that SF participated..which is correct...as oppososed to you providing so many links they didnt.


I never objected to SF participation. My discussion was mainly centered towards use of Tavor. One link i posted, said which regiment participated from both Russia and India.



> Secondly..I guessed they were SF..from their helmets,Guns and techniques....to which you said that it is not possible coz SF didnt take part...and now since BORIS has confirmed this....the odds are less in your favour now coz earlier you were not willing to accept that SF took part.


Buddy, are you answering the whole group or just me ?? Somebody else wrote this not me. First read properly then reply.



> Lastly...i didnt bet my life on anything...and you didnt prove me wrong a singlle time...


 I was just kidding.



> I asked you to provide Garuda pics with Tavor..you didnt...I did with Insas as i said.


Agreed, no proof of Tavor with garud in pics till now. But not every force show all their weapons during exercises. I said you might see it in coming Aero India.



> You imagine RR is a force which gets is troops from god knows where...i gave you the correct answer..and still you have no clue.


You said RR is there in every battalion. What i said was no, its a separate unit. Regarding its supply of soldiers, yes they come from army only. Just like NSG, which gets its soldiers from army and others.



> You were the one saying SF troopss didnt take part and NAGA battalion took part...to which i said SF took part..and i am right...and till now no one has proved they are Ghatak...only the debate has opened now...thanks to BORIS.


 Not me buddy. I never said Naga. Regarding SF my statement was : I don't know who these soldiers are, but you can easily determine if a soldier is in SF because there are few symbols indicating it but those symbols are not visible in the pics.



> So my friend...where i am wrong...you are the one who is not willing to listen and increasing the length of the debate coz 'times of India' didnt say so(about SF participation)


As far as i remember you said only para commandos have tavor. Even you yourself posted pics of CRPF personnel using Tavor. I also posted many reports of tavor in CRPF, RR and other special forces. I agreed before also that there is no pic showing garud with tavor which i admit right now also but still that does not mean they don't use it. But you have also never seen a garud in actual combat or anti-terrorist operation.
You said just by looking the pic that they have to be SF because they are wearing new helmets and using tavor. Has your friend confirmed that the guys in the pics are SF ??/ As far as i remember he said they were just monitoring the drill.
Also i never said they are not, i said before also and i will say now also, the guys in the pics could be SF and could be not because no special forces symbol is visible to confirm they are SF.

Also it was just a discussion not a competition...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> You are one stubborn teenager...
> 
> I never objected to SF participation. My discussion was mainly centered towards use of Tavor. One link i posted, said which regiment participated from both Russia and India.
> 
> 
> Buddy, are you answering the whole group or just me ?? Somebody else wrote this not me. First read properly then reply.
> 
> 
> I was just kidding.
> 
> 
> Agreed, no proof of Tavor with garud in pics till now. But not every force show all their weapons during exercises. I said you might see it in coming Aero India.
> 
> 
> You said RR is there in every battalion. What i said was no, its a separate unit. Regarding its supply of soldiers, yes they come from army only. Just like NSG, which gets its soldiers from army and others.
> 
> 
> Not me buddy. I never said Naga. Regarding SF my statement was : I don't know who these soldiers are, but you can easily determine if a soldier is in SF because there are few symbols indicating it but those symbols are not visible in the pics.
> 
> 
> As far as i remember you said only para commandos have tavor. Even you yourself posted pics of CRPF personnel using Tavor. I also posted many reports of tavor in CRPF, RR and other special forces. I agreed before also that there is no pic showing garud with tavor which i admit right now also but still that does not mean they don't use it. But you have also never seen a garud in actual combat or anti-terrorist operation.
> You said just by looking the pic that they have to be SF because they are wearing new helmets and using tavor. Has your friend confirmed that the guys in the pics are SF ??/ As far as i remember he said they were just monitoring the drill.
> Also i never said they are not, i said before also and i will say now also, the guys in the pics could be SF and could be not because no special forces symbol is visible to confirm they are SF.
> 
> Also it was just a discussion not a competition...


 
A discussion becomes a competition when you try to dominate the discussion.

Secondly my friend..i siad...RR has people from the army..every regiment send its troops to RR...for eg the Bihar regtt sends its troops to 4RR,24RR,48RR...so in these RR Units only Bihar regtt troops will be there..No Gorkha..no NaGa..so likewise even the Para has its RR..i hope this time you get what i have said.

Then you said every special force of India will have Tavor..to which i said Garuds dont have it...and this is a recent pic of Garuds..chreck it..











Garuds participating in the induction ceremony of C-130

And finally you never said SF were there..you were just saying the Infantry and Ghataks are there and were not willing to accept that SF were involved...but now when someone has confirmed that SF were there..i think...the discussion has openend with another option of them being Paras.


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## angeldemon_007

> so likewise even the Para has its RR.


Para is itself like RR. It contains personnel from all sections of Indian army but they volunteer although they have to compete for spot. I hope you get my point.



> Then you said every special force of India will have Tavor..to which i said Garuds dont have it...and this is a recent pic of Garuds..chreck it..


Yeah is said that because there are many reports of this. I again admit there is no pic yet. I think we have a conflict in Garuds case only. I read many such articles which indicated this. Now talk like a mature guy, you are basing the infantry weapons of a special force by seeing just a few pictures of just a few garuds who are posing for the camera. You have to admit that we have still not seen a garud in actual combat.



> A discussion becomes a competition when you try to dominate the discussion.


sorry never meant for that.


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## Contract Killer

Imagine............... Anthony Para jumping in Lungi


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> Para is itself like RR. It contains personnel from all sections of Indian army but they volunteer although they have to compete for spot. I hope you get my point.
> 
> 
> Yeah is said that because there are many reports of this. I again admit there is no pic yet. I think we have a conflict in Garuds case only. I read many such articles which indicated this. Now talk like a mature guy, you are basing the infantry weapons of a special force by seeing just a few pictures of just a few garuds who are posing for the camera. You have to admit that we have still not seen a garud in actual combat.
> 
> 
> sorry never meant for that.



All Para battalions are not SF...and they are called "The Parachute Regiment"....so the Parachute regiment also sends its troops to RR.


And regarding your doubt on RR...here is what your favourite site wikipedia has to say about RR...

"The RR was raised as a para-military force and it was envisaged that its personnel , like the Assam Rifles, would consist of regular Army volunteers on deputation, ex-servicemen and lateral inductees from various para-military forces and central police organisations. *However, this never happened and the force has consisted only of regular Army officers and Jawans* , especially from the various Infantry regiments , like the Rajputana Rifles , Gorkha Rifles , Maratha Light Infantry , Sikh Light Infantry and Sikh Regiment. Both officers and soldiers are sent to the RR on deputation for a period of 2-3 years. RR personnel receive 25% more salary than regular Army personnel , plus additional benefits , that is why it is often a coveted deputation."

link:- Rashtriya Rifles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Rest there is a difference between me and you...you trust newspaper articles and i trust pictures.

The day i see a pic of Garuds with Tavor..i will be very happy..till then..sorry i dont believe you.

Lastly just wanna say...i dont think i can make you understand anything..so better to end this debate right now.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Another pic of Garud from the induction ceremony of C-130


http://img585.imageshack.us/i/dsc0569y.jpg/


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

An article i would like to share with you guys:-


The Rambo of Indian Army


NEW DELHI: They are the invincible lot. Major Sudhir Kumar and his
comrades of the Special Forces are the Indian Army's `Rambos' who flirt
with death every day. Their forte is to hunt down foreign mercenaries in
the remote fastness of the mountains of Kashmir.

``Nobody can touch me. My life line is strong, my luck line is strong,''
the young major would declare to friends. And so it seemed for eight
long years and countless operations where the special forces hunted the
hunters who have spread terror in the Valley.

But then, Major Kumar's luck ran out. On August 29, the Major was dead.
He was just 31.

Kumar had led his team of SF men deep into the Afruda forest in Kupwara
district of Jammu and Kashmir. Moving at night, as they usually did, the
SF caught some 25 militants unawares in their camp. The SF team ploughed
through the camp with Sudhir Kumar in the lead. He killed nine militants
even though he was injured early on in the firefight. But later, despite
medical care, he died.

``Nobody could expect this guy to go like this,'' says a friend with a
sense of disbelief. For a man with just 11 years in the Army, Major
Kumar already had 10 medals - including two Sena medals for gallantry, a
wound medal and operation medals - adorning his chest.

The irony was that Major Kumar did not have to be where he was. After a
stint in the Valley he was in a cushy job as the security ADC to the
Army Chief Ved Malik in New Delhi. But when the Kargil affair blew up,
he could not resist the call to arms and requested his boss permission
to return to his unit. In Kargil, the SF was, as usual, thrown in for
the toughest tasks and took heavy casualties. Kumar was part of several
operations. He was recommended for yet another gallantry award for his
role in the capture of the Zulu top in Kargil where 25 Pakistani
soldiers were killed.

``He always led from the front,'' says a friend of his in the Army. In
an earlier operation at Trimukha in Kupwara district in 1996, Major
Kumar and his men had killed 14 militants, reaching their hideout after
walking through the night in driving rain. The reason for his success at
targeting militants? ``I can think like them...I'm a crook.''

And yet, those who knew him describe him as a ``cool, calm, low-key
person with a desire to learn...to know everything''. ``Not only was he
fearless, he was a good strategist too,'' recalls a friend. He had
topped a special intelligence course in the US and received an honorary
colonel's certificate from the governor of Alabama.

An avid reader, linguist, skydiver, skilled in radio
communication,...there were so many facets to this son of a junior
commissioned officer who belonged to Banuri village, near Palampur in
Himachal Pradesh.

Major Kumar was a man who as a little boy aspired to be a wrestler until
his mother decided to enrol him in the Sainik School at Sujanpur Tira. A
man who aspired to take his mother around in a car and bought one so he
could do so. ``A man who has done his bit for the nation,'' says a
friend.


The Rambo of Indian Army - Sujanians.org


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Major Sudhir Walia - 9 Para Commando(Special Forces) Ashok Chakra









Even though life continues normally in the little slate-roofed mud house in the tiny village of Banuri, near Palampur, yet it can never be the same again for those living there.
In a dimly-lit small room, the immaculate uniform, belt and beret of an Army officer, hangs on the wall, and alongside you see the face of an earnest young, committed soldier staring at you. Along with the portrait and laminated blow-ups of the young officer, there are so many other memories which the ageing couple in the house clings to. There is pride in the moist eyes of Subedar Rulia Ram, as he talks about his valiant son. Major Sudhir Kumar, on whom the highest peace time gallantary award, Ashoka Chakra, has been posthumously conferred, brought honour not only to his family, but to all those who loved and respected him.
It was on August 29, last year, that he died fighting insurgents in the Kupwara sector of the trouble-torn state of Jammu and Kashmir. "It was on the night of August 27 that he gave us a call to say that he would be reaching home after two days, which he did, but in a coffin," recounts his mother. "Even as a small child his only aim in life was to join the Army and achieve something great," she says. It was not merely a fascination to adorn the olive green uniform, but to tread the path very few would dare to.
Born on May 24, 1968, in Jodhpur, Major Sudhir studied uptil Class V in the government school in the village itself. It was after being selected in the Sainik School at Sujanpur Tira in Hamirpur district, that he could see his dreams coming true. After passing out from the NDA in 1987, he was commissioned on June 11, 1988. Initially, he joined the 4 Jat Regiment. But later shifted to the elite 9 Para Commandos. His stint in Sri Lanka as part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) saw him emerge as an expert in guerrilla warfare. There was no looking back after this as he was decorated with service medals one after the other. The endless list of decorations includes the Videsh Seva Medal and Special Services Medal in 1990, Siachen Glacier Medal, High Altitude Medal and Sainya Medal for Jammu and Kashmir in 1992.
He got the Sena Medal and Bar Two Medal in 1994 and Clasp Suraksha to Special Service Medal and Wound Medal in 1996. Major Sudhir was selected for the International Officers Advance Course in the USA. In that he qualified as an instructor with honours, after having done the course in protective services of VIP security and combat terrorism on military installations. Having added another feather to his cap, he was posted as the ADC to Army Chief,Gen V.P. Malik, from December 1997 to June 1999. His desire to be in the thick of warfare saw him becoming part of Operation Vijay, in Kargil. After it was over, Major Sudhir went back to counter-insurgency operations, his field of expertise, in Jammu and Kashmir.
He was entrusted with important tasks, which included being sent on special secret missions to Pakistan. "It was not without reason that bhai was chosen for these difficult jobs. He had a flair for languages, he had mastered Persian and Sindhi. He was also an expert in the use of explosives and could easily decode the wireless messages of the militants," disclosed Arun, younger brother of Major Sudhir.
The 31-year-old officer was killed in the dense forests of Haphruda in Kupwara, but only after gunning down a few militants. As he led a squad of five men in the area, he heard disembodied voices, but was unable to spot them. He along with his buddy crawled uphill and on reaching the knoll saw two armed militants, barely four metres away. He immediately killed the nearest sentry and charged towards the second, who jumped back into a large covered hideout in a depression, 15 metres below.
Without any hesitation, Major Sudhir charged at the hideout with only his buddy giving him covering fire.Taken aback, the militants, 20 in number, rushed out in an attempt to flee. Major Sudhir singlehandedly grappled with them and firing from a distance of two metres, killed four militants. In this action, he was hit on the face, chest and arm and fell down, bleeding profusely at the entrance of the hideout. Although, unable to move, he called up his troop commanders on the radio set, not to allow the militants to flee. It was only after 35 minutes, when fire stopped that he allowed his evacuation. Bleeding profusely, he continued to pass instructions to his troops on his radio set. He passed away holding his set, in the hand.
While no amount of help can compensate for the loss of Subedar Rulia Ram's son, the state government has not bothered to consider the bereaved father's request for a job for his other son and daughter. "Since there is not even a single earning member from my family," rues Sub Rulia Ram, "I had personally requested the Chief Minister, P.K. Dhumal, to give a government job to my son or daughter, when he had come to our house, immediately after Sudhir&#8217;s death." Major Sudhir's younger brother, Arun(28 ), had met with a serious car accident in 1992 and is unemployed. His younger sister, Asha, a student of BA-II, in Government College, Palampur, too, is willing to do a job, provided there is some help from the government.
Even five months after Major Sudhir sacrificed his life for the nation, not a single person from the state government has payed his family a visit, let alone offer help. It is a matter of great regret that the martyr who is being revered by the entire nation, is a forgotten man in his home state.


upender: Major Sudhir Walia - 9 Para Commando(Special Forces) Ashok Chakra - Posthumous 29 August 1999 - COIN Ops - Jammu & Kashmir


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## Abingdonboy

Hi can I have an I.D on the unit in this vid, I know they are not SF though, some sort of state polics:






not looking too bad, hopefully all states will have a unit like this or better.

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## angeldemon_007

> All Para battalions are not SF...and they are called "The Parachute Regiment"....so the Parachute regiment also sends its troops to RR.


Thanx for this info.

Regarding you trusting pics. Look man its your opinion but i stand by my opinion. You cannot determine a force weapons when you have never seen them in actual combat.

Also thanx for sharing those 2 articles about our martyrs.

Regarding the video of that operation i think its SWAT of the police. I couldn't understand much but i heard him saying Octopus wing, i think its the name given. But they are not SF, they are posing for the cameraman


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## kriish

Contract Killer said:


> Imagine............... Anthony Para jumping in Lungi


 
i prefer it with out a parashute

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## aakash_2410

Black Blood said:


> Good stuff , but India needs to put a hell of a lot of efforts to bring its SF's to International Standards or as a Regional force with its counter parts , SSG/Chinese SF and Russians.


 
Chinese special force or russians I can understand. Point taken. But SSG[special service group of pakistan]??!! looool Really? Did you actually say that?


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## bhagat

angeldemon_007:Regarding the video of that operation i think its SWAT of the police. I couldn't understand much but i heard him saying Octopus wing, i think its the name given. But they are not SF, they are posing for the cameraman


They are Andhra Pradesh special police unit formed to counter terror attacks in October 2007 

Organization for Counter Terrorist Operations (OCTOPUS) -- the newly-created exclusive wing to fight terror groups operating in the state.


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## Water Car Engineer

*Pictures from Aero India 2011*

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## Water Car Engineer

Contract Killer said:


>


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## Abingdonboy

I was a little underwhelmed this year by the Guaruds, from all reports there were very few of them and from the few pics availble they look a little underdressed comapred to A1 2009 below is a vid of them back in AI 2009 




Check them out they have earpeices, knee pads, elbow pads, side arms and tactical vests and they also looked much meaner (just my personal opinion) anyone know the reason for them toning down thier apperance (do they still have that gear). It was confounded by how ridiculous they looked at the C-130j induction ceremony ^^^ (again just my opinoion) wearing black face paint whilst wearing green camos and bandanas and carrying old looking AKs, it was a real shame because before at AI 2009 and Vayu Shakti 2010 they really looked prfessional and modern.

Any help would be much appreicated. Thanks.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I was a little underwhelmed this year by the Guaruds, from all reports there were very few of them and from the few pics availble they look a little underdressed comapred to A1 2009 below is a vid of them back in AI 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check them out they have earpeices, knee pads, elbow pads, side arms and tactical vests and they also looked much meaner (just my personal opinion) anyone know the reason for them toning down thier apperance (do they still have that gear). It was confounded by how ridiculous they looked at the C-130j induction ceremony ^^^ (again just my opinoion) wearing black face paint whilst wearing green camos and bandanas and carrying old looking AKs, it was a real shame because before at AI 2009 and Vayu Shakti 2010 they really looked prfessional and modern.
> 
> Any help would be much appreicated. Thanks.


 
My view:-

Their dressing doesnt make sense to me as one guy is covering his face while other two in the front inspite of having face mask are not using it....make me feel that it is a fashion thing and not for hiding their identity.

Elbow pads and knee pads are a personal choice and not issued as a standard equipment.

No Tavors...pretty much the same firepower as the last time.

Not happy to see anyone of them wearing headsets with radio.

The Garuds didnt do justice to the title given to them by defence forum memebers calling them "the coolest Indian SF".


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## boris

coolest indian SF?? ,because of gear you saw with them,i'd say check out the army SF and MARCOS now they have some cool electronics gear,israeli/american/russian/european guns in their arsenal with all the sights ,optics and the other usual stuff with them now.

anyway just saw a cool episode of futureweapons which was focussed towards israel's new toys saw the micro tavor,kitty cornershot,simon room intervention explosive and other stuff.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> coolest indian SF?? ,because of gear you saw with them,i'd say check out the army SF and MARCOS now they have some cool electronics gear,israeli/american/russian/european guns in their arsenal with all the sights ,optics and the other usual stuff with them now.
> 
> anyway just saw a cool episode of futureweapons which was focussed towards israel's new toys saw the micro tavor,kitty cornershot,simon room intervention explosive and other stuff.


 
Ya,i was also watching that programme.

Regarding that coolest looking SF..it was not my comment but some guys comment after Aero India 09.


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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> Ya,i was also watching that programme.
> 
> Regarding that coolest looking SF..it was not my comment but some guys comment after Aero India 09.


 
i know mate you didnt say it,my first line was for them


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## Abingdonboy

Posting this vid dunno if it's been posted before:






IA in Kashmir always seems to look good, prob cos best stuff goes to them 1st as they are foreward deployed and need it most + prob cos alot of these guys are Para SF and RR. And they don't just look PR good but operatioanlly hard core and profesional (I know it shouldn't be a surprise but they are looking very nice).Shame though I have never seen an IA guy (SF or Non-SF) with a side-arm attactched to his hip or otherwise anywhere except a few promo shots but not on live ops. Have seen them on MARCOS (during recent op on oil rig and guarding Obama) and Guarud at AI '09 (but sadly not this year). Any reason why??

P.S only thing I don't like bout this vid is at the start, Sikhs are not represented, shame as they are one of the major religons in India, no? And make up a significant proportion of the Armed forces, I dare say some were most likely involved in this op. Just a minor thing

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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> Posting this vid dunno if it's been posted before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IA in Kashmir always seems to look good, prob cos best stuff goes to them 1st as they are foreward deployed and need it most + prob cos alot of these guys are Para SF and RR. Shame though I have never seen an IA guy (SF or Non-SF) with a side-arm attactched to his hip or otherwise anywhere except a few promo shots but not on live ops. Have seen them on MARCOS (during recent op on oil rig and guarding Obama) and Guarud at AI '09 (but sadly not this year). Any reason whoy??


 
i think its because of the op,sidearms are useful when i am 5-7 m from the enemy which happens in CT/CQB situations where like the oil rig you'll see sidearms and mp-5's ,in kashmir a rifle is enough plus they have a lot of ammo and reinforcements so again why go for a 9mm.though i think some of the guys do carry sidearms.

in a jungle recon i'd keep a pistol because its uncertain whether my ammo for my main arm will be enough if the situation gets bad.


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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> i think its because of the op,sidearms are useful when i am 5-7 m from the enemy which happens in CT/CQB situations where like the oil rig you'll see sidearms and mp-5's ,in kashmir a rifle is enough plus they have a lot of ammo and reinforcements so again why go for a 9mm.though i think some of the guys do carry sidearms.
> 
> in a jungle recon i'd keep a pistol because its uncertain whether my ammo for my main arm will be enough if the situation gets bad.



Fair point, but surely as in Kasmir (especially in this vid) the terrain is urban and as such you may need a secondary, not just for the CQB aspect but as a secondary weapon for whatever reason- primary jams, runs out of bullets etc in that situation you would want to be able to draw your secondary and return fire and not do jamming drills or reload, seconds can kill.

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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> Fair point, but surely as in Kasmir (especially in this vid) the terrain is urban and as such you may need a secondary, not just for the CQB aspect but as a secondary weapon for whatever reason- primary jams, runs out of bullets etc in that situation you would want to be able to draw your secondary and return fire and not do jamming drills or reload, seconds can kill.


 
good point but from what i think they'd surely be having a sidearm its just under all the camo we might not be able to see it as i have seen sidearm strapped across the thigh rather than the belt and the handle which is the only art exposed is a small thing so except for a high-res photo you cant spot it.but for sidearms the para's have got the glocks,sig P 226,beretta with them now compared to earlier when they only had browning high power.


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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> good point but from what i think they'd surely be having a sidearm its just under all the camo we might not be able to see it as i have seen sidearm strapped across the thigh rather than the belt and the handle which is the only art exposed is a small thing so except for a high-res photo you cant spot it.but for sidearms the para's have got the glocks,sig P 226,beretta with them now compared to earlier when they only had browning high power.



Fair enough, I take your point. At the end of the day they are the men on the ground who know thier needs and equip accordingly. If they don't ALL have acess as of now i'm sure they will do in the near future as the MOD/Govt finally sees the importance of the SF and is starting to equip them accordingly.

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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> Fair enough, I take your point. At the end of the day they are the men on the ground who know thier needs and equip accordingly. If they don't ALL have acess as of now i'm sure they will do in the near future as the MOD/Govt finally sees the importance of the SF and is starting to equip them accordingly.


 
yep the MOD now knows their value and gives them the stuff but as far as your home team the SAS are concerned let me tell you man they are having great stuff to use and they are one kickass element of your country.


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## Ganga

There is a very old saying

"Special forces are special not because they are super humans , but because the enemy thinks they are "

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## boris

Ganga said:


> There is a very old saying
> 
> "Special forces are special not because they are super humans , but because the enemy thinks they are "


 
since you raised this point let me tell you something my cousin in the army told me some time back,

in a course for the infantry the officers are taught that the max lifespan of a terrorist who infiltrates into kashmir is one year,once they infiltrate to keep safe they keep moving from one place to another with some info about the army units stationed from their local contacts but once they are told that para sf or MARCOS are operating in their area they move pretty far off as they know that if they dont they'll be finished

apparently the terrorists are very scared of the army sf & MARCOS.

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## Ganga

boris said:


> since you raised this point let me tell you something my cousin in the army told me some time back,
> 
> in a course for the infantry the officers are taught that the max lifespan of a terrorist who infiltrates into kashmir is one year,once they infiltrate to keep safe they keep moving from one place to another with some info about the army units stationed from their local contacts but once they are told that para sf or MARCOS are operating in their area they move pretty far off as they know that if they dont they'll be finished
> 
> apparently the terrorists are very scared of the army sf & MARCOS.


 I never knew MARCOS operated in Kashmir.I guess it's Garud which you are actually referring.I remember reading that Garuds are used to guard some air bases in Kashmir


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## boris

Ganga said:


> I never knew MARCOS operated in Kashmir.I guess it's Garud which you are actually referring.I remember reading that Garuds are used to guard some air bases in Kashmir


 
yep they do ops in wular lake area in kashmir alongwith the army SF,they have been there for a pretty long time and have done great jobs.


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## Ganga

boris said:


> yep they do ops in wular lake area in kashmir alongwith the army SF,they have been there for a pretty long time and have done great jobs.


 
Yeah you are right.I remember now.Most of them grow beards to mix with the local Muslim population.They are called "Dadi wala phoaj" by the locals.


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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> since you raised this point let me tell you something my cousin in the army told me some time back,
> 
> in a course for the infantry the officers are taught that the max lifespan of a terrorist who infiltrates into kashmir is one year,once they infiltrate to keep safe they keep moving from one place to another with some info about the army units stationed from their local contacts but once they are told that para sf or MARCOS are operating in their area they move pretty far off as they know that if they dont they'll be finished
> 
> apparently the terrorists are very scared of the army sf & MARCOS.


 
And so they should be these men are trained to take on professional armies; they have no trouble with some little piggy in $1 sandals and 1 weeks of traing by Pakistan!

"MESS WITH THE BEST, DIE LIKE THE REST!!"

oh by the way good story, tell more if you know any.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> oh by the way good story, tell more if you know any.


 


There was a officer in the RR who was very successful and had a lot of kills...lets name him Tom..so once Tom was interrogating a terrorist and the terrorist asked Tom...may i ask you a question...go ahead said Tom...terrorist said..i was told in my training camp that in the IA there is a Officer named Tom..he is the one you should be most careful about...so then the terrorist asked Tom...r u by any chance the person i was warned about in my trainning camp.

The officer Tom was lateron posted to IMA after completing his successful tenure in RR...and the terrorists chased him to Dehradun to kill him..in which they were unsuccessful.


If you wanna hear more stories then mssg me..i will send you my email id and will share the rest of the stories with you there.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

*X95 (TAVOR) 5.56*

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## saumyasupratik

Liquid said:


> *X95 (TAVOR) 5.56*


 
Nice I believe these are the Israeli produced versions not the ones produced by OFB know as Zittara.Interestingly they have the Mepro MOR sight instead of the standard Mepro 21.MOR has integrated laser pointers.


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## Abingdonboy

Liquid said:


> *X95 (TAVOR) 5.56*


 

Who are these guys?? CRPF?? Don't look like SF.

Anyway good to see Indian Armed forces/ Para military forces moderninsing to kill the terrorist SCUM who butcher innocents in India!!

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## Abingdonboy

Liquid said:


>


 
Army/Police/Para military guys are looking good in this vid- ready to kick some terrosist !!!

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## Abingdonboy

Liquid said:


>


 
Just a Q to all the Pakistanis- note I do NOT intend to be offensive, so ignore me if I come across that way- but can you show me any pics of your SFs looking this good and proffesional??? These pics of MARCOS show they are 1 of the best in the world along with what is already known about their rigourous training and fearsome reputation (Along with PARA SF).

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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Just a Q to all the Pakistanis- note I do NOT intend to be offensive, so ignore me if I come across that way- but can you show me any pics of your SFs looking this good and proffesional??? These pics of MARCOS show they are 1 of the best in the world along with what is already known about their rigourous training and fearsome reputation (Along with PARA SF).


 
Here are some SF from Pakistan..


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## boris

emotions and patriotism aside SSG is a very good SF unit,they have to be SF are strategic assets our leaders understood it after 26/11,SF operators know the value of being good in their world being good equals to coming back alive,when at times i hear pakistani SF arent great,americans are soft and fed on mcdonalds and KFC,russians are too violent etc. all i say they are all good they are the ones with their and their mates lives on the line i'll quote what a US NAVY SEAL said in a documentry:

"IN THE WORLD OF A SPECIAL FORCES OPERATOR YOU CANT BE NEAR GOOD YOU HAVE TO BE GREAT TO DO THE JOB BECAUSE IF YOU DONT WIN YOU GO STRAIGHT TO YOUR GRAVE"

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## Water Car Engineer

boris said:


> emotions and patriotism aside SSG is a very good SF unit,they have to be SF are strategic assets our leaders understood it after 26/11,SF operators know the value of being good in their world being good equals to coming back alive,when at times i hear pakistani SF arent great,americans are soft and fed on mcdonalds and KFC,russians are too violent etc. all i say they are all good they are the ones with their and their mates lives on the line i'll quote what a US NAVY SEAL said in a documentry:
> 
> "IN THE WORLD OF A SPECIAL FORCES OPERATOR YOU CANT BE NEAR GOOD YOU HAVE TO BE GREAT TO DO THE JOB BECAUSE IF YOU DONT WIN YOU GO STRAIGHT TO YOUR GRAVE"


 
If they also had something other then the Ak would be better also.

Like this..


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> *X95 (TAVOR) 5.56*



Looks cool. I think X95 and Tavor families are different in many ways....

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## Dalai Lama

^^^

Tavor is a cool looking gun! Then again I have a thing for bull-pup rifles!


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## Water Car Engineer

TheDeletedUser said:


> ^^^
> 
> Tavor is a cool looking gun! *Then again I have a thing for bull-pup rifles!*


 
Everyone does bro......

Well the day when Indian SFs look like this, I will be a happy man.

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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> Everyone does bro......
> 
> Well the day when Indian SFs look like this, I will be a happy man.


 
Dude what is special in those SFs? Indian SFs have all of these systems for quite some time including the rifle.


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## Kinetic

TheDeletedUser said:


> ^^^
> 
> Tavor is a cool looking gun! Then again *I have a thing* for bull-pup rifles!


 
Mate, don't you like bull-pop?


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## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> Dude what is special in those SFs? Indian SFs have all of these systems for quite some time including the rifle.


 
Post some pictures then. 

MARCOS will get some tavors so they will look like this?


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## Dalai Lama

@Abingdonboy

Yeah agreed those MARCOS look cool but looking cool doesn't mean anything. They're still a bit under-equipped from what I can tell. Correct me if I'm wrong. Where's the eye protection, gas mask, communication devices (maybe not necessary)? The MP5 is a good gun but the Micro Tavor is better and IMO that's what they should be using. Also I don't see holographic sights mounted on all their guns.


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## Dalai Lama

Kinetic said:


> Dude what is special in those SFs? Indian SFs have all of these systems for quite some time including the rifle.



Probably Israeli SF judging by the uniform colour. BTW I've never heard of bull-pop. Is it a drink?


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## Kinetic

Got few videos of X95 Micro Tavor, its more efficient for the special forces requirement of close combat...

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## Kinetic

TheDeletedUser said:


> BTW I've never heard of bull-pop. Is it a drink?


 
lol mistake, sorry. It should be bull-pup! 



> Probably Israeli SF judging by the uniform colour.


I don't like that uniform color, some kinda militia type. When they have some excellent weapons, its the color of the unifomr is disappointing Israel should change this.


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## Dalai Lama

Give them this and the Micro Tavor and then they'll be looking very cool!


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> Post some pictures then.



I had few pics, will search them and post. 



> MARCOS will get some tavors so they will look like this?


 I think MARCOS for anti-piracy and anti-terrorist operations are quite different from the one for special forces operations like covert operations behind the enemy line etc.


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## Dalai Lama

Kinetic said:


> lol mistake, sorry. It should be bull-pup!
> 
> 
> I don't like that uniform color, some kinda militia type. When they have some excellent weapons, its the color of the unifomr is disappointing Israel should change this.


 
Yeah, I meant I like bull-pups. 

I don't like their uniform colour either but it's not just a random colour they picked. I'm sure there's some science behind it. They usually have to carry out operations in urban areas and deserts out there so I guess the murky green colour fits both purposes.


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## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> I had few pics, will search them and post.
> 
> 
> *I think MARCOS for anti-piracy and anti-terrorist operations are quite different* from the one for special forces operations like covert operations behind the enemy line etc.


 
Yes they are...

They dont have one singlar outfit.


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## angeldemon_007

I must say wow. Pakistani SF are looks like one of the best equipped special forces in the world, they should just change their gun, but still they are better equipped than our special forces.



> emotions and patriotism aside SSG is a very good SF unit,they have to be SF are strategic assets our leaders understood it after 26/11


I don't think they understood the importance of SF still. If they would have, then by now all our SF should be equipped well by now, but they only got the guns till now. They should get everything just like any other special force in the world. I even doubt they have proper bullet proof jackets, helmets, night vision goggles, proper communication equipments etc. but they are sent to fight in situations were all these things are needed. Its really sad the life of our soldiers is still of no importance to these bloody politicians. Unless or until armed forces are included in the government just like in other countries, our forces will continue to work in poor conditions.



> Where's the eye protection, gas mask, communication devices (maybe not necessary)? The MP5 is a good gun but the Micro Tavor is better and IMO that's what they should be using. Also I don't see holographic sights mounted on all their guns.


Yeah they need these accessories because they work in very hostile environment.

I also think they should at least stick to a single uniform, not even marcos, but garud and para commandos are also seen wearing different uniforms sometimes.


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## Water Car Engineer

> I must say wow. Pakistani SF are looks like one of the best equipped special forces in the world, they should just change their gun, but still they are better equipped than our special forces.



They are better equipped then Indian SFs so far, but I wish India's SF were western standards.











Seriously this isnt that far away, If India wanted I sure it can arm its special forces at least like this.






I mean we are not trying to pull this off.

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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> They are better equipped then Indian SFs so far,


 
 Are you kidding? BPJ? rifle? helmet? communication system? Whats there in? 



> but I wish India's SF were NATO standards.


lol


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## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> Are you kidding? BPJ? rifle? helmet? communication system? Whats there in?
> 
> 
> lol


 
At least most of them have Ballistic helmets.



> lol



Whats so lol?

I rather have this....






.....then this any day..











What is that a world war era helmet?


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> Yes they are...
> 
> They dont have one singlar outfit.



All of this are anti-piracy or anti-terror operation, I was talking about covert operations like attacking on enemy shore but they don't release pics of such forces.


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> At least most of them have Ballistic helmets.



So is Indian.... 








> Whats so lol?
> 
> I rather have this....



They are NSG not army/navy/air force special forces.


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## Water Car Engineer

I have seen, but that helmet is completely new to India. And I havent seen any other pics or video other then that Indo-Russia exercise..


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## IndianArmy

Marine Commandos


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## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> They are NSG not army/navy/air force *special forces*.


 


> *Special forces, or Special Operations forces* are terms used to describe elite military, police, or civilian paramilitary tactical teams trained to perform one or more of the following missions: Special Reconnaissance, Direct Action, Foreign internal defense, Unconventional warfare, or Counter-terrorism, although additional missions like humanitarian aid or counter-drug operations may be performed. They are suited to operating against informally structured, irregular and asymmetric forces and capable of operating independently, or in direct support of either conventional military forces or other government departmental requirements. They are high value assets, commanded at the strategic level that deliver effects disproportionately to their size.



I sure NSG fall under special forces of India.



> All of this are anti-piracy or anti-terror operation, I was talking about covert operations like *attacking on enemy shore but they don't release pics of such forces.*


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> I have seen, but that helmet is completely new to India. And I havent seen any other pics or video other then that Indo-Russia exercise..


 
You and me haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't have. Now what makes them better equipped? helmet over!


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## Dalai Lama

The thing with our special forces is that first of all there's so many of them and secondly some of them are well equipped and some of them aren't so well equipped. Same goes for the army. I wish they would hurry up with the modernisation! Have to wait till 2020 for F-INSAS.


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> I sure NSG fall under special forces of India.



NSG is not related to armed forces special unit like those of IA, IAF or IN, though there are some recruits. They are mainly for civilian purposes like anti terrorist operation, security etc not to fight war. 





> ?


 
thats what I am saying MARCOS is one of the most secretive of the armed forces special units they don't reveal the weapons and systems they have. not even number. Look at the pics posted by 'Indian Army' sir.


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## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> Y*ou and me haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't have.* Now what makes them better equipped?* helmet over!*


 
Right....

Dont think helmets are over.. Until these tin can helmets are gone, then you can say over.


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## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> NSG is not related to armed forces special unit like those of IA, IAF or IN, though there are some recruits. They are mainly for civilian purposes like anti terrorist operation, security etc not to fight war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats what I am saying MARCOS is one of the most secretive of the armed forces special units they don't reveal the weapons and systems they have. not even number.


 
The title says Indian army and its *special forces*..



> *Special forces, or Special Operations forces are terms used to describe elite military, police, or civilian paramilitary tactical teams trained to perform one or more of the following missions:* Special Reconnaissance, Direct Action, Foreign internal defense, Unconventional warfare, or *Counter-terrorism*, although additional missions like humanitarian aid or counter-drug operations may be performed. They are suited to operating against informally structured, irregular and asymmetric forces and capable of operating independently, or in direct support of either conventional military forces or other government departmental requirements. They are high value assets, commanded at the strategic level that deliver effects disproportionately to their size.


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> The title says Indian army and its *special forces*..


 
Yes, Indian army and *its* special forces.... and NSG is not one of them. lol


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> Right....
> 
> Dont think helmets are over.. Until these tin can helmets are gone, then you can say over.


 
You said that Pakistani special forces are better equipped and pointed toward ballistic helmets so I said Indian forces also have them then what more about that? Do you think these are tin cans as well? No.....


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## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> Yes, Indian army and *its* special forces.... and NSG is not one of them. lol


 


> NSG is not related to armed forces special unit like those of *IA*, IAF or IN




So, Marcos and Garud pictures should not be allowed then? Just Paras and such? IA ands its special forces right? Not special forces from IN and IAF?






I doubt most of those tin cans and motorcycle helmets are replaced by ballistic helmets. Until then, you can check it of your list.


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## IndianArmy

*Liquid and Kinetic.... What is Happening in here???*


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> So, Marcos and Garud pictures should not be allowed then? Just Paras and such? IA ands its special forces right? Not special forces from IN and IAF?


 
Yes, but MARCOS and Garud are units of armed forces unlike NSG, SPG etc.


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## Dalai Lama

Take it easy guys. 

____________________

I'm with Liquid on this one. GoI needs to spend some money on better equipping our infantrymen and SF commandos. Buying fancy aircraft is fine and dandy but you can't afford to neglect other areas of our defence. 

Maybe *IndianArmy* can give us a better idea on how well the soldiers are equipped?

EDIT: I think it would be very helpful since we can only form our opinion based on these limited pictures.


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## Water Car Engineer

IndianArmy said:


> *Liquid and Kinetic.... What is Happening in here???*


 
He doesn't want to admit that Indian special forces are under equipped. And when I said Pakistani SF might be better equipped then Indian SF it stroke a struck a raw nerve.



> Yes, but MARCOS and Garud are units of *armed forces* unlike NSG, SPG etc.



Title didn't say armed forces, but IA and its special forces. In that case MARCOS shouldn't be talked about at all.


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## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> He doesn't want to admit that Indian special forces are under equipped. And when I said Pakistani SF might be better equipped then Indian SF it stroke a struck a raw nerve.



But failed to prove that they are under equipped and still roaming around NSG. 



> Title didn't say armed forces, but IA and its special forces. In that case MARCOS shouldn't be talked about at all.



So be it, then what? why post NSG pics? 

*You still didn't say how Pakistan special forces more equipped than Indians. Passing a comment is very easy but sticking to it is very difficult.* lol


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## Water Car Engineer

> So be it, then what? why post NSG pics?



Man, look all the way back to the first page, you can see SPG. Thats not IA special forces or IAF or IN. NSG is relevant then.

And I bet you I wasnt the first to post NSG pics.



> You still didn't say how Pakistan special forces more equipped than Indians. Passing a comment is very easy but sticking to it is very difficult.



Look this is what I *seen * so far of their special forces. *I *think it looks better then most of Indian SP. How ever in 10-20 years this will def change.


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## tanlixiang28776

beckham said:


> Its *SPG 's counter-sniper unit* !


 
How do you counter snipe with an AK?

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## Dalai Lama

@Kinetic

The title of this thread isn't the holy grail mate. We all know that this thread is mostly for Indian SF so I think it's okay to post NSG pictures. Now let's get back on topic please.


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## gubbi

IndianArmy said:


> *Liquid and Kinetic.... What is Happening in here???*


 
Hi, 
If it isnt asking for too much, can you throw some light on Establishment 22 and the DMI - two of the very secretive SF in India. There is only one article which kind of delves into the making of Establishment 22 (reports directly to RAW) while absolutely nothing is known about the DMI and its activities. IIRC, I believe I read somewhere (cant find source so you may disregard this piece of information) that in most of the cases where RAW is 'blamed' its actually the handiwork of the DMI. True?

*Establishment 22*


> It&#8217;s not easy to find Radug Ngawang&#8217;s house among the maze of narrow lanes in Majnu ka Tilla, the bustling Tibetan settlement by the Yamuna in north Delhi. As we get closer, some people offer us directions. After all, the 83-year-old Ngawang is known within the community as one of the handful of body guards who accompanied the Dalai Lama when he fled to India in 1959.
> 
> What they probably don&#8217;t know is that he was also an elite commando trained and armed by the US&#8217;s Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). And that for a decade and a half he was first a soldier and then leader of a top-secret Indian regiment that was raised exactly 47 years ago yesterday. Ngawang was a founding member of what, in grand government euphemism, is known as Establishment 22.
> 
> The story of this still-secret regiment, however, reads like a set of Catch 22 situations.
> 
> Though it was raised to fight the Chinese army in Tibet, it has fought in several theatres of war except that one. It&#8217;s so classified a set-up that even the army may not know what it&#8217;s up to &#8212; it reports directly to the prime minister via the directorate general of security in the cabinet secretariat; so the gallantry of its soldiers cannot be publicly recognised. It&#8217;s supposed to be a group of volunteers; but all school-passing Tibetan children not making a certain grade are still expected to join it.
> 
> Jawaharlal Nehru took the decision to raise the force on his birthday in 1962. It was also the day the war with China resumed on the eastern front after a brief lull. On the advice of Intelligence Bureau founder-director Bhola Nath Mullick and World War II veteran Biju Patnaik, Nehru ordered the raising of a Tibetan guerrilla force that could engage the Chinese in the uber-tough terrains of the Himalayas.
> 
> Sitting in his house on the Yamuna, Ngawang says that it was early 1963 when the first batch of about 12,000 Tibetans was brought to Chakrata, 100 km from Dehradun. Former armyman Sujan Singh Uban was the first inspector-general tasked with turning these rugged highlanders into fierce fighters &#8212; with substantial help from the CIA. The group took its intriguing name after the 22 Mountain Regiment that Uban had fought for during WWII.
> 
> Since then, the regiment &#8212; also called the Special Frontier Force (SFF) &#8212; has participated with exemplary skill in Operation Eagle (securing Chittagong hills during the Bangladesh War of 1971, where 46 soldiers of the regiment died), Operation Bluestar (clearing Amritsar&#8217;s Golden Temple in 1984), Operation Meghdoot (securing the Siachen glacier in 1984) and Operation Vijay (war with Pakistan at Kargil in 1999).
> 
> Some reports later claimed that SFF&#8217;s mandate had been changed to include anti-terrorist operations. But Vikram Sood, director of the Research & Analysis Wing during 2001-03, and B. Raman, additional secretary in the security wing of the cabinet secretariat during 1988-94, deny any change from the original mandate.
> 
> The total number of soldiers, though, has changed &#8212; swelling to about 20,000 around 1970 and then whittling down to below 10,000. It&#8217;s difficult to know the exact count at present because of the tight lid of secrecy.
> 
> The lid was, however, blown in 1978. Indian newspapers reported that an electronic intelligence machine passed on by the CIA and mounted atop Nanda Devi in 1965 to track Chinese missile tests had gone missing. The bigger worry was over the plutonium generator that powered the machine. As Prime Minister Morarji Desai assured a worried Parliament on nuclear safety, the mention of SFF, that had mostly manned the operation, slipped out.
> 
> Captain Manmohan Singh Kohli, 78, adviser to the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (then called the Frontier Rifles) who led the operation, says, &#8220;The SFF men were real tough&#8230; Once, when we were building a helipad a large rock had to be removed. It needed seven men to lift &#8212; even six wouldn&#8217;t do. Then, one of the SFF guys said, &#8216;Put it on my back.&#8217; And he alone carried it about 15 feet and threw it.&#8221;
> 
> Commandant Dinesh Tewari, 68, a former Gurkha regiment captain who put thousands of SFF soldiers through a gruelling 44-week commando course during 1969-75, says, &#8220;They can survive in any condition... On some winter mornings I would watch some of them taking chilly water into their mouth, warming it, and then spitting it out to wash their face.&#8221;
> 
> But for all their hardship and valour, SFF men and women have got little official recognition.
> 
> Ngawang, who retired as a Dapon (equivalent of a brigadier), the top rank among SFF&#8217;s Tibetans, in 1976, says, &#8220;We were promised medals after Bangladesh, but never got them &#8212; only some cash, that too a few thousands.&#8221; On retirement he got Rs 19,000. He and his wife Dechen, who trained for SFF&#8217;s women&#8217;s wing, have sold sweaters and run restaurants to make ends meet.
> 
> Some other ex-members, too, run shops in Dharamshala or Delhi. Many more others bide their last years at an old-age home in Dehradun.
> 
> Only recently have a few SFF soldiers been given gallantry awards for Siachen and Kargil. Payscales, too, have been made to match those in the army. A serving soldier reports that a few months ago, for the first time, the government promised them pensions.
> 
> But a soldier wants recognition, too. Captain Kohli, who was awarded the Ati Vishisht Seva medal, says, &#8220;I was conferred the AVSM by the Navy, because it was a covert operation... I am sure the SFF men get recognition and awards within their own system.&#8221; Just that nobody is saying how.


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## Dalai Lama

tanlixiang28776 said:


> How do you counter snipe with an AK?



An AK-47 is an assault rifle so it's still relatively accurate. The counter sniper unit is mostly meant for urban areas where snipers won't be at extremely far ranges. In short, a few well placed rounds in the right direction will keep the sniper suppressed allowing other forces to sneak up on him.


----------



## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> Man, look all the way back to the first page, you can see SPG. Thats not IA special forces or IAF or IN. NSG is relevant then.
> 
> And I bet you I wasnt the first to post NSG pics.


 
Than why are you comparing NSG with Pakistan armed forces special units? Why don't compare with their civilian equivalent? You still didn't say how they are better equipped. I can see where it _"stroke a struck a raw nerve"_.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

And the Pakistan SP isnt all that great. For god sakes look at Indonesian SPs.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> Than why are you comparing *NSG with Pakistan armed forces special units*? Why don't compare with their civilian equivalent? You still didn't say how they are better equipped. I can see where it "stroke a struck a raw nerve".



Dude................ Special Service Group-The Special Service Group (SSG), also known as Black Storks, is a special operations military unit of Pakistan Army mandated with six primary missions: unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action, hostage rescue, and counter-terrorism.

It does like the exact same thing as NSG.

SSG


----------



## Dalai Lama

^^^

Like I said, I think the GoI has been neglecting the troops and SF.


----------



## Kinetic

TheDeletedUser said:


> @Kinetic
> 
> The title of this thread isn't the holy grail mate. We all know that this thread is mostly for Indian SF so I think it's okay to post NSG pictures. Now let's get back on topic please.


 
Dude I think if you are following us than must knew that first he said Indian special forces are not as equipped as Pakistanis then he says got ballistic helmets and now comparing NSG with Pakistan Army/Air Force/Navy special forces.  

*I just asked a question how and what makes Pakistani special forces better equipped.* Ballistic helmets, night vision goggles, modern rifles, BPJs, various protective pads on the body, communication systems and what?


----------



## tanlixiang28776

TheDeletedUser said:


> An AK-47 is an assault rifle so it's still relatively accurate. The counter sniper unit is mostly meant for urban areas where snipers won't be at extremely far ranges. In short, a few well placed rounds in the right direction will keep the sniper suppressed allowing other forces to sneak up on him.


 
So relying on enemies to be in a urban area then? What if they aren't? 

Counter snipers need to have more accurate heavy caliber sniper rifles to deal with snipers. An AK doesn't cut it.


----------



## Dalai Lama

tanlixiang28776 said:


> So relying on enemies to be in a urban area then? What if they aren't?
> 
> Counter snipers need to have more accurate heavy caliber sniper rifles to deal with snipers. An AK doesn't cut it.



We obviously have sniper units too; evident from the events of 26/11. I'm not sure exactly what the role of that counter sniper unit is but I'm sure someone who knows better will be able to tell you.

What I gave you before was my educated guess.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> Dude I think if you are following us than must knew that first he said Indian special forces are not as equipped as Pakistanis then he says got ballistic helmets and now comparing NSG with Pakistan Army/Air Force/Navy special forces.



Yes, why cant they give something simple as ballistic helmets to Indian SP? SSG does like the same damn thing as NSG. What wrong in comparing?











tin can helmets? wtf?


----------



## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> Dude................ Special Service Group-The Special Service Group (SSG), also known as Black Storks, is a special operations military unit of Pakistan Army mandated with six primary missions: unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action, hostage rescue, and counter-terrorism.
> 
> It does like the same thing as NSG.


 
So is Indian special forces like MARCOS, Army and IAF Garud they are also used for same. They also taking part against insurgency, militancy, terrorist operations etc but NSG is different from them. Also they have got many systems and weapons after 26/11 as per news reports.


----------



## Kinetic

Liquid said:


> Yes, why cant they give something simple as ballistic helmets to Indian SP? SSG does like the same damn thing as NSG. What wrong in comparing?





NSG is not the same 'damn' thing like SSG as I said. SSG is unit of Pakistan army and you want to compare them with NSG!!



> tin can helmets? wtf?



this is mumbai police...


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Kinetic said:


> So is Indian special forces like MARCOS, Army and IAF Garud they are also used for same. They also taking part against insurgency, militancy, terrorist operations etc but NSG is different from them. Also they have got many systems and weapons after 26/11 as per news reports.


 
What do you want to compare them too? Para Commandos? Marcos? Garuds? 
















Paras
















Marcos


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Garuds commados

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------




>



What force one? For one state of India? Congrats, make it nation wide.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Much better then this..






To bad its for one state!..


----------



## IndianArmy

Oh My god.... Guys.... If its A Fight over who is stylish than the contemporary then India has to Give way for a Lot of nations.... But keep in mind Style is Not a Factor In the armed forces , Its the Factor Which Involves the Fire to fight


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Would posting pictures of Chinese spec ops for comparison offend any of you guys?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Would posting pictures of Chinese spec ops for comparison offend any of you guys?


 
We seen, its much better.



> Oh My god.... Guys.... If its A Fight over who is stylish than the contemporary then India has to Give way for a Lot of nations.... But keep in mind Style is Not a Factor In the armed forces , Its the Factor Which Involves the Fire to fight



Bro.....


----------



## IndianArmy

*@ Liquid* , You have been posting pictures of Force one which are affiliated to the state police squad not the National army.... And If You want to see and Experience The Tough Guys You can score a chanse By Sneaking inside the 100+ of different terrains in the CIJWS mizoram , Differently armed, Differently Equipped Forces of Ours....


----------



## tanlixiang28776

So should I post or not. You're being a bit vague here.


----------



## IndianArmy

Liquid said:


> We seen, its much better.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro.....


 
Even if the Govt is , the Army is No Fool to have been using the Patkas and the Modified M1 Type Helmets....


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> You have been posting pictures of Force one which are affiliated to the state police squad not the National army.... And If You want to see and Experience The Tough Guys You can score a chanse By Sneaking inside the 100+ of different terrains in the CIJWS mizoram , Differently armed, Differently Equipped Forces of Ours....



I dont doubt their ability, but there crappy equipment has to go.

I seen some SP using this!!








tanlixiang28776 said:


> So should I post or not. You're being a bit vague here.


 
Nah, most of us seen Chinese special forces.



> @ Liquid , You have been posting pictures of Force one which are affiliated to the state police squad not the National army.... And If You want to see and Experience The Tough Guys You can score a chanse By Sneaking inside the 100+ of different terrains in the CIJWS mizoram , Differently armed, Differently Equipped Forces of Ours....



I did not post Force one first, but Kinetic did..


----------



## IndianArmy

Liquid said:


> I dont doubt their ability, but there crappy equipment has to go.


 
As You see... We are undergoing a 3rd stage of modernization in the armed forces, Its Not easy to modernize an army ranging till millions in head count.... 

Whats the Point in Modernizing one by one when we have an Active program running to modernize the entire fleets Armory , which ranges from shoes to Helmets...


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Liquid said:


> Nah, most of us seen Chinese special forces.


 
Fine but if anyone does want to see I'll be happy to post.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

IndianArmy said:


> As You see... We are undergoing a 3rd stage of modernization in the armed forces, Its Not easy to modernize an army ranging till millions in head count....
> 
> Whats the Point in Modernizing one by one when we have an Active program running to modernize the entire fleets Armory , which ranges from shoes to Helmets...


 
I under stand, but we are not talking about the million man Indian army, buts its special forces.


----------



## IndianArmy

Liquid said:


> I under stand, but we are not talking about the million man Indian army, buts its special forces.


 

Are we discussing only about Special Forces Here???


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> Are we discussing only about Special Forces Here???



Currently, yes..


----------



## IndianArmy

Liquid said:


> Currently, yes..


 
And Name a Special Force affiliated with the Army other than the Paras... And reason me where Paras are Under equipped ....


----------



## Dalai Lama

tanlixiang28776 said:


> So should I post or not. You're being a bit vague here.



This thread is for Indian SF. You can make one for the Chinese SF and I'd love to see them.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

IndianArmy said:


> *And Name a Special Force affiliated with the Army other than the Paras.*.. And reason me where Paras are Under equipped ....


 
Ghatak Force?


----------



## IndianArmy

Not many Pictures Like this below are Published in the Internet, but that doesent Judge the SF.. both by ability and Uniform 






---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------




Liquid said:


> Ghatak Force?


 
Ghataks are No SF, they are Filtered Marksmen....


----------



## Water Car Engineer




----------



## Water Car Engineer

More pictures


----------



## tanlixiang28776

TheDeletedUser said:


> This thread is for Indian SF. You can make one for the Chinese SF and I'd love to see them.


 
Well I saw Pakistani and western spec ops here. I only asked because I didn't want to start a flame war.

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## Water Car Engineer

*@Indianarmy*







Those are however Maldivians with the better helmets. They were just using Para's tavor. They looks like Indians, I got confused.


----------



## IndianArmy

Liquid said:


> *@Indianarmy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are however Maldives with the better helmets. They were just using Para's tavor. They looks like Indians, I got confused.


 
I too mistook them as Indians.... Paras do use Ballistic Helmets....As I probably thought this was the Only picture with them Without There usual patkas....


----------



## Dalai Lama

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Well I saw Pakistani and western spec ops here. I only asked because I didn't want to start a flame war.


 

Those pictures are here for referral purposes. Like I said make a thread for Chinese SF and I'd love to see them. And you were right to ask first.


----------



## angeldemon_007

@ Liquid
Name the SF please.












best one





I hope terrorist are targeting our politicians, then only these idiots will realize the importance of the life of a soldier.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

TheDeletedUser said:


> Those pictures are here for referral purposes. Like I said make a thread for Chinese SF and I'd love to see them. And you were right to ask first.


 
Does that mean I can post Chinese spec ops for referential purposes. Otherwise it would seem kind of discriminatory.


----------



## angeldemon_007

> Does that mean I can post Chinese spec ops for referential purposes. Otherwise it would seem kind of discriminatory.


Please...just don't be too offensive, we know our forces are not that well equipped.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

angeldemon_007 said:


> Please...just don't be too offensive, we know our forces are not that well equipped.


 
That was never my intent. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked at all.


----------



## Dalai Lama

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Does that mean I can post Chinese spec ops for referential purposes. Otherwise it would seem kind of discriminatory.


 

Of course you can, you don't need my permission for that.


----------



## angeldemon_007

> That was never my intent. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked at all.


No i meant pleasse share with us but don't right unnecessary comment (a request to everyone).


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> @ Liquid
> Name the SF please.








This is one of the models for America's future soldier..
















British SAS






Philippines Special Forces for there Air Force...........Yes, Phiippines even have a better equipped SPs.

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## tanlixiang28776

heres a good picturewith variety in weapons
type 95 assault rifle: 30 rounds standard 5.8x21
cqc 05 smg: 50 rounds of 5.8x21
qbu 88 DMR: 10 rounds heavy 5.8 x 42
crossbow for nonlethal.






Don't actually know if they are spec ops or not though

They look well armed but do not have the arm badge.

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## Water Car Engineer

tanlixiang28776 said:


> heres a good picturewith variety in weapons
> type 95 assault rifle: 30 rounds standard 5.8x21
> cqc 05 smg: 50 rounds of 5.5x21
> qbu 88 DMR: 10 rounds heavy 5.8 x 42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't actually know if they are spec ops or not though


 
We cant see that picture and please post in the Chinese special forces thread. We will be glad to check it out.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Liquid said:


> We cant see that picture and please post in the Chinese special forces thread. We will be glad to check it out.


 
Dude everyone is posting here for references. Why can't I?

Besides I already asked.

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## Water Car Engineer

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Dude everyone is posting here for references. Why can't I?
> 
> Besides I already asked.


 
Dont post like 10+ pictures of the Chinese SPs or something I mean. Dont go overboard and post a whole bunch in Indian SPs thread.


----------



## Dalai Lama

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Dude everyone is posting here for references. Why can't I?
> 
> Besides I already asked.


 
He meant post it in the other thread as well and I agree, that thread is dying without any Chinese members posting. it would be good to have a nice compilation.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Liquid said:


> Dont post like 10+ pictures of the Chinese SPs or something I mean. Dont go overboard and post a whole bunch in Indian SPs thread.


 
Jeez I only posted one. Why is everyone so sensitive about it.

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 PM ----------




TheDeletedUser said:


> He meant post it in the other thread as well and I agree, that thread is dying without any Chinese members posting. it would be good to have a nice compilation.


 
Fine I'll post there as well.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

TheDeletedUser said:


> He meant post it in the other thread as well and I agree, that thread is dying without any Chinese members posting. it would be good to have a nice compilation.


 
I already have a thread on that.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Jeez I only posted one. Why is everyone so sensitive about it.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Fine I'll post there as well.


 
Ya, your right its one pic, but some people tend to over do it. And post like 20, which I thought you were going to do.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Liquid said:


> Ya, your right its one pic, but some people tend to over do it. And post like 20, which I thought you were going to do.


 
Its not good to pre judge people like that. The most I would've posted was 200.


----------



## angeldemon_007

Let him post yaar, at-least we should know where we lack with respect to others.



> Philippines Special Forces for there Air Force...........Yes, Phiippines even have a better equipped SPs.


Man you are right. Every country knows the importance of their SF except ours. Did you guys heard about the Kargil fiasco where our SF was send like a normal infantryman.

*Chilean Special Forces*















I feel sad about our special forces.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> Let him post yaar, at-least we should know where we lack with respect to others.



Ya, but lets not post a whole bunch of foreign SP, there is other threads for that. Dont go overboard thats all.

And YES Indian SP is worse equipped then Chilean.(OMG) You would think in a nation like India with insurgencies like the Maoist they would act fast.....


Indian SP should get the best, not just tavors and call it a day. Hope it turns out to be at least like this..


----------



## angeldemon_007

> Ya, but lets not post a whole bunch of foreign SP, there is other threads for that. Dont go overboard thats all.






> You would think in a nation like India with insurgencies like the Maoist they would act fast.....


Actually the power is in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats. Armed forces are not involved in the government. Nobody listens to them and thats why the condition of forces is poor in INdia. There's nobody to represent them in the government. Every country has high ranking officials from the armed forces in the government but not in India, we are a pure democracy


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> Actually the power is in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats. Armed forces are not involved in the government. Nobody listens to them and thats why the condition of forces is poor in INdia. There's nobody to represent them in the government. Every country has high ranking officials from the armed forces in the government but not in India, we are a pure democracy


 
What is the Army doing for the special forces when the Army chief thinks buying golf carts are more important than buying blood clots?


----------



## Abingdonboy

One thing that is clear though whilst indian SF lack certain resources due to finacial and political reasons, when they do buy they buy the best;take the example of the Tavor they had already used the M4 and tested many others (G36,F2000, Str AUG etc) but they came to the conclusion the Tavor was the best for them and a 21st centary option built from the ground up for the 21st. It shows despite growing up in isolation the Indian SF are mature and professional operators who know what they need/want and NO amount of money can buy that!


----------



## tallboy123

I am waiting for F-Insas to be operational...


----------



## IndianArmy



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## Dalai Lama

^^^ 
Our boys are looking cool in the first pic!


----------



## IndianArmy

TheDeletedUser said:


> ^^^
> Our boys are looking cool in the first pic!


 
Training Gear....


----------



## Dalai Lama

IndianArmy said:


> Training Gear....



I know, what's that thing mounted on the rifle called? Sensor?


----------



## IndianArmy

TheDeletedUser said:


> I know, what's that thing mounted on the rifle called? Sensor?


 
No Idea son, Not able to have a close view of that?? could anyone identify what that thing is??

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## tanlixiang28776

IndianArmy said:


> No Idea son, Not able to have a close view of that?? could anyone identify what that thing is??


 
laser tag.

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## IndianArmy




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## IndianArmy




----------



## Kinetic

TheDeletedUser said:


> I know, what's that thing *mounted on the rifle called*? Sensor?


 
This is some kind of laser type system used for training of the soldiers. Those INSAS are not loaded instead the laser hit the sensors mounted on the helmet and body of the soldiers and recorded. You can see who is shooting down whom, with what accuracy etc.

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## tanlixiang28776

Kinetic said:


> This is some kind of laser type system used for training of the soldiers. Those INSAS are not loaded instead the laser hit the sensors mounted on the helmet and body of the soldiers and recorded. You can see who is shooting down whom, with what accuracy etc.


 
We have similar tools.

Xinjiang 

Notice the laser receivers on the helmet and optics in the barrel and above the barrel.

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## saumyasupratik

tanlixiang28776 said:


> We have similar tools.
> 
> Xinjiang
> 
> Notice the laser receivers on the helmet and optics in the barrel and above the barrel.


 
What assault rifles are those?Are they only used for training or also used for combat.Doesn't look anywhere similar to the QBZ-95.Also does the PLA Ground Forces or the PLAN Marine Corps use QBZ-03 in large numbers?


----------



## angeldemon_007

@ IndianArmy
Which exercise is this ??/ Some more pics please...


----------



## IndianArmy

angeldemon_007 said:


> @ IndianArmy
> Which exercise is this ??/ Some more pics please...


 
Indo UK mechanised forces Exercise


----------



## tanlixiang28776

saumyasupratik said:


> What assault rifles are those?Are they only used for training or also used for combat.Doesn't look anywhere similar to the QBZ-95.Also does the PLA Ground Forces or the PLAN Marine Corps use QBZ-03 in large numbers?


 
training weapons. Not real guns. They could be modeled on a unknown Chinese gun however

PAP, border patrols, and airborne use QBZ-03. Marines use QBZ 95


----------



## Water Car Engineer

tanlixiang28776 said:


> training weapons. Not real guns. They could be modeled on a unknown Chinese gun however
> 
> PAP, border patrols, and airborne use QBZ-03. Marines use QBZ 95


 
I have seen some weapons that Chinese carry that I never seen before..


----------



## Dalai Lama

Kinetic said:


> This is some kind of laser type system used for training of the soldiers. Those INSAS are not loaded instead the laser hit the sensors mounted on the helmet and body of the soldiers and recorded. You can see who is shooting down whom, with what accuracy etc.



Thanks, I knew what it did. i was just wondering whether it had a name.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

Liquid said:


> I have seen some weapons that Chinese carry that I never seen before..


 
airsoft guns. You can still see part of the orange tip

P.S not real soldiers. Some official acting group.


----------



## Dalai Lama

Liquid said:


> I have seen some weapons that Chinese carry that I never seen before..



Those look similar to Heckler and Koch's G36K with an ACOG scope. Maybe it's the Chinese equivalent.

EDIT: Or as he said, they're airsoft guns!


----------



## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

This is how the NSG should be equipped like..

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## saumyasupratik

Liquid said:


> This is how the NSG should be equipped like..


 
I'd be happy if his body armour had some kinds of Pouch attachment system and also with mounting bracket for NVG.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## baker

i think it is the time for a new photo session for our special forces... what ever we are seeing is almost repetitive .....


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## Abingdonboy

just found this vid, a bit old, but pretty interesting:







Major General Keshav Padha AVSM,VSM , who has been closely associated with the Indian Special Forces for over 38 years. Gen. Padha shares some insights into the Indian response to the Mumbai attacks, and terrorism in general.

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## S-A-B-E-R->

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


>


 
a little info on radar plz any one

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
BEL Battle Field Surveillance Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At . 40-50 lakhs per unit, the BFSR costs a third of the price of comparable western systems.[19] Officials have also stated that the BFSR has several superior features compared to radars from competing firms, such as Thales (France), Elta (Israel), BAe (UK), Raytheon (USA) and AMS (Italy).

The BFSR has also notched up foreign sales, with Indonesia ordering 100 units and Sudan ordering 10 radars. Mozambique has also bought some radars for trials. BEL is looking at Sri Lanka, Uzbekistan and some other countries for potential sales. There have been serious sales enquiries from at least 5 countries.

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## Abingdonboy

Hi here is an AWESOME vid of IAF Special Forces- THE GURADS:

Rocky, Mayur meet the GARUDs

I would like to make some observations/ ask some questions raised from the vid:
-Good to see some decent equipment- Helmets, thigh holstered side arms, hands-free comns etc
- Good to see how extensively they are trained.
- Shame about INSAS

Now some Qs:
-What sort of training do they receive not shown on this vid? I'm sure they are parachute qualified but can they be inserted into the sea (parachute/jump?)
-How comparable are they to USAF PJs (as they have similar roles) ?
-Are there any more plans to upgrade them (i.e. INSAS to something more tactical and fitting their SF role)?
- Are there any plans to give them their own specialised air assets (USAF PJs fly specialised Black hawks- Pave hawks)?

even still a formidable force and well worth a watch
Thanks, any input from you guys would be great.

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## Abingdonboy

Check this vid out (i know not Spec ops -CRPF- but still):
Dantewada massacre: A year on

Check out Tavor!!

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## jamesbaldwin

Abingdonboy said:


> Hi here is an AWESOME vid of IAF Special Forces- THE GURADS:
> 
> Rocky, Mayur meet the GARUDs
> 
> I would like to make some observations/ ask some questions raised from the vid:
> -Good to see some decent equipment- Helmets, thigh holstered side arms, hands-free comns etc
> - Good to see how extensively they are trained.
> - Shame about INSAS
> 
> Now some Qs:
> -What sort of training do they receive not shown on this vid? I'm sure they are parachute qualified but can they be inserted into the sea (parachute/jump?)
> -How comparable are they to USAF PJs (as they have similar roles) ?
> -Are there any more plans to upgrade them (i.e. INSAS to something more tactical and fitting their SF role)?
> - Are there any plans to give them their own specialised air assets (USAF PJs fly specialised Black hawks- Pave hawks)?
> 
> even still a formidable force and well worth a watch
> Thanks, any input from you guys would be great.


 
SWEET!!!! good find!! GARAUDS are looking great!!!! but definitely agree with you they deserve their own customized helos like Pavehawks (along iwth all other SFs but I MARCOS have this and IA are raising a SOAR) maybe IAF can buy the second hand ones from USAF as I think they are being decommisioned soon and will be replaced by Chinook or V22 or maybe buy some dedicated ones NEW. I would say US is best for this they look after their SF like no other!


----------



## jamesbaldwin

Liquid said:


>


 
Are these guys really SF?? I have doubts


----------



## Capt.Popeye

jamesbaldwin said:


> Are these guys really SF?? I have doubts


 
They are not SF!


----------



## angeldemon_007

^^^
Yeah....also please stop posting more than 2 years old pics....you can find all those pics on militaryphoto and defence.pk....


----------



## Abingdonboy

Hey guys check out this pic from Indra 2010:






Is it just me or are the Indian guys in this pic MUCH better armed than regular infantry? Are they SF or just a well armed infantry unit?
+ check out all the pics of this EX + LOTS OF AWESOME pics of latest INDIAN ARMY. (+SF) weapons and equipment:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-military-picture-thread-159.html#post1693997

(BTW post #2381 and on)

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## Water Car Engineer




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## Water Car Engineer

Some SFs here.

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## Abingdonboy

self delete


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## Abingdonboy

Liquid said:


> Some SFs here.


 
Can anyone post the full link? For some reason natgeoin only posted first 5 FULL eps on youtube. Thanks in advance.

+ the guys you are talking about (the ones with the Tavors) could be Ghataks aswell.

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
this is what i got...

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## Abingdonboy

Thanks mate ^^^ but no chance of full EP? Any idea why Natgeoin haven't uploaded ep 6+7 on youtube yet? they have done so for ALL uptil 5 till now, strange.

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
not yet

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## MUHARIB

[/IMG] 

Can someone identify this unit or the story behind this picture??...i defenitely know its Kashmir looking at the background but dunno which unit.. I ve made the face black but i found this pic with out the black thingy.


----------



## Splurgenxs

Para Commandos


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## Abingdonboy

Splurgenxs said:


> Para Commandos


 
Most likely, probable RR aswell. Any chance of more pics?

+ good call on blacking out the face. Too many posters of Indian SF pics think that just because the original is not blacked out means they don't have to bother. US/west posters are a lot more mindful of these things.

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## Arjun27

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Fine but if anyone does want to see I'll be happy to post.


 
why not post it but in terms of real fightng u guys r nothing infront of Indians.


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## Abingdonboy

Indian 21 Para (SF) operations, just a little vid I found for anyone whose interested.

21 Special Forces recognised for valour[/QUOTE]


The vid is rather old (2006) so much of the SF's kit now has been MUCH upgraded but still a rare look into Indian SF.

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## Water Car Engineer

*MARCOS 26/11*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Came across this recent pic of a IA SF soldier's forearm..thought of sharing with you guys in this thread.

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## Abingdonboy

Recent pic of IAF GUARDS:








Come on guys let's keep this thread alive!!!!! any contribution would be very much appreciated.

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## Water Car Engineer

*Some personal pictures from a marine commando*

A lot of good new pictures.

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## angeldemon_007

Marcos don't reveal their face like this....are you sure all of them in the video are marcos ?/ Also i hope this video was old because man really need to provide Marcos with good stuff. I mean it won't even cost more than 100 million $ to fully equip Marcos considering the small size of force...

Even Afghanistan SF are better equipped than ours...

*Afghan SF*





















And people thinks why our soldiers shoot themselves, nobody cares about soldiers...

*It looks like not even our Generals, Admirals and Air Chiefs have no respect for our Special forces because it won't cost much to equip our SF with some of the best equipments in the world. Hell Indian Special forces should be best equipped in the world but funny thing is they are not as well equipped as countries like Afghanistan.*

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## DarK-LorD

Indians get very much confused between MARCOS & VBSS.


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Are soldiers in video are VBSS ??


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## DarK-LorD

If you see the guy at 1:31 & 2:01 they don't have MARCOS patch or they could be MARCOS undergoing training as they are yet to receive SF batch.


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## DarK-LorD

Abingdonboy said:


> Recent pic of IAF GUARDS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on guys let's keep this thread alive!!!!! any contribution would be very much appreciated.


The only thing that's spoiling the picture are the AK's.


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## angeldemon_007

Their goggles are not anti-shrapnel ones, no earpiece, no gloves....i bet they are way better trained and more deathly than Aghan SF but they are no so well equipped....but this pic is still old but good...


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> Their goggles are not anti-shrapnel ones, no earpiece, no gloves....i bet they are way better trained and more deathly than Aghan SF but they are no so well equipped....but this pic is still old but good...


 
Actually I think that they are wearing earpieces- look at the radio, there is a output cable that looks to go to an earpiece but as they are wearing masks you can't see them. But I totally agree with you mate, India SF have been totally neglected and underresourced. but I'm optimistic about the future as it seems someone has woken up and Indian SF are finally getting the equipment they deserve to march their extraordinary skills. 

Recent (sort of) pic of IN MARCOS:






I think these guys look pretty well equipped- PALS BPJ, Thigh-holster side-arms, MARS holographic sights on HK-MP5, Kevlar helmets, elbow and knee pads. 

Indian PARAs (not SF)




I was VERY impressed to see how well equipped these guys now were. Protective eyewear, elbow and knee pads etc and there is a few seconds where I think we see IA SF as they have Tavors and Helmets (I do not think regular PARA have Tavors yet). 

And some other pics of Garuds:











Again, look at their kit-not bad at all. 




Anyway IA RR

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## Abingdonboy

check It out:





















Look at these pics!!! I didn't realise IA SF went for camo'd weapons (other than camo cloth wrapped round them that is )

Taken from this hero's site:








> Major Mohit Sharma(1 PARA,SF), gallantary award winner 2004 gave a tough fight & defended the mother nation till his last breath of his life .These LeT militants were heavily armed & this encounter has been the longest & bloodiest of all in the recent times.Very few of the soldiers actually get a chance to live their dream ..He has lived his dream to do something dynamic for the country ...This Martyr was cremated on the same day as Shaheed Divas ,23rd March

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## MrIndianSikh

our SOF's are well trained and arguably just as good as any other SOF in the world but they really need better equipment good thing F-INSAS will help clear most of the obsolete equipment OFB should consider working with Israel to develop a next generation assault rifle for the SOF's with laser sights and ability to carry multiple attachments at a time e.g silencer, grenade launcher, grip, Holographic or MARS sight, Laser optic or tritium sight, flashlight, etc it breaks my heart seeing the SOF's in such good battle gear but only armed with a AK-47


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## rajusri

Abingdonboy said:


> check It out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at these pics!!! I didn't realise IA SF went for camo'd weapons (other than camo cloth wrapped round them that is )
> 
> Taken from this hero's site:


 
cool photos.


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## Abingdonboy

Video of IN VBSS teams being trained by IN MARCOs (the ones in Camo are the MARCOs trainers)









Great vid + awesome music- shows how well trained IN VBSS teams are (getting their training from the best!) and shows the MARCOS showing some of their skills (shooting, beach assault etc). 

Enjoy!

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## suma_rathore

this is the best thread on this website, please dont let it die>>

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## suma_rathore

check out this video from times now>>

[video]http://www.timesnow.tv/Heroes-The-elite-warriors/videoshow/4380620.cms[/video]

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## suma_rathore

this one shows our para-commandos wearing fragmentation protective face-masks and says that they were operating in hostile territory>>i cant say whether they were operating in north-east or busting terrorist hideouts in myanmmar, the latter seems to be a possibility

the one who is leading the video is colonel shekhawat, he has scaled everest thrice i think, twice being on the safe side and seems to be a real battle-hardened guy

i got this video from bharat-rakshak


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

suma_rathore said:


> this one shows our para-commandos wearing fragmentation protective face-masks and says that they were operating in hostile territory>>i cant say whether they were operating in north-east or busting terrorist hideouts in myanmmar, the latter seems to be a possibility
> 
> the one who is leading the video is colonel shekhawat, he has scaled everest thrice i think, twice being on the safe side and seems to be a real battle-hardened guy
> 
> i got this video from bharat-rakshak


 
You will find more on this in Indian Military picture thread.


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## saumyasupratik

suma_rathore said:


> check out this video from times now>>
> 
> [video]http://www.timesnow.tv/Heroes-The-elite-warriors/videoshow/4380620.cms[/video]



Interesting, The Para SF now use Beretta 92's along with the Glock 9mm's and 9mm Auto 1A's.


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## Abingdonboy

suma_rathore said:


> check out this video from times now>>
> 
> [video]http://www.timesnow.tv/Heroes-The-elite-warriors/videoshow/4380620.cms[/video]


 


suma_rathore said:


> this one shows our para-commandos wearing fragmentation protective face-masks and says that they were operating in hostile territory>>i cant say whether they were operating in north-east or busting terrorist hideouts in myanmmar, the latter seems to be a possibility
> 
> the one who is leading the video is colonel shekhawat, he has scaled everest thrice i think, twice being on the safe side and seems to be a real battle-hardened guy
> 
> i got this video from bharat-rakshak



You can see how far these guys (21 PARA (SF) have come very quickly:

21 Special Forces recognised for valour

Vid is from 2006

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## Abingdonboy

Guys, check out some pics/vid of IN's elusive MARCOs (can be seen for one of the first times with their recently squires Tavors):

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-military-picture-thread-200.html#post2156527

(post 2989)

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## Abingdonboy

One of the most AWESOME documentaries ever (I almost don't care I can't understand half it cos it's in Hindi!!):

NSG documentary:
???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??????

Better guns, BPJ, accessories etc

must watch. 


Kick a$$!!!

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## boris

All right new game,mention your top 5 SF units ranked in order,here's mine:

1)S.A.S
2)Para(SF)(Only the 8 SF units)
3)MARCOS
4)ACE(Army Compartmentalized elements new name for Delta Force)
5)Spetsnaz GRU


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## Omega007

boris said:


> All right new game,mention your top 5 SF units ranked in order,here's mine:
> 
> 1)S.A.S
> 2)Para(SF)(Only the 8 SF units)
> 3)MARCOS
> 4)ACE(Army Compartmentalized elements new name for Delta Force)
> 5)Spetsnaz GRU


 
Mine will be almost similar but I am not so sure about the Spetsnaz GRU.This organisation is too secretive just like our Special Frontier Force to rank them.


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## boris

Omega007 said:


> Mine will be almost similar but I am not so sure about the Spetsnaz GRU.This organisation is too secretive just like our Special Frontier Force to rank them.



many confuse the alpha group to be russian army SF,but it is infact the spetsnaz GRU -said to be the most secretive and most skilled of all russian SF.

mujahideen feared them,chechens fear them.

till now only 3 members that too anonymously have given interviews to papers after 9/11 no one from this unit has come on TV or writen books.

if you want to see a glimpse of their skill i recommend typing in sonny puzikas on youtube and see his skill,sonny was from spetnaz MVD not from GRU but from that you can assess the amazing skill these guys carry

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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> All right new game,mention your top 5 SF units ranked in order,here's mine:
> 
> 1)S.A.S
> 2)Para(SF)(Only the 8 SF units)
> 3)MARCOS
> 4)ACE(Army Compartmentalized elements new name for Delta Force)
> 5)Spetsnaz GRU



I would've thought MARCOs were above PARA SF given the breadth of their training selection process and length of training. they are also the most secretive of all Indian SOFs who are by nature very secretive anyway. TBH all Indian SOF are world class. 


I wouldn't have put SAS 1st with defence cuts and UK's continuing decent into insignificance the SAS are losing their relevance with it. I would think Delta/SEAL ST6 (DEVGRU) were 1st.

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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> I would've thought MARCOs were above PARA SF given the breadth of their training selection process and length of training. they are also the most secretive of all Indian SOFs who are by nature very secretive anyway. TBH all Indian SOF are world class.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have put SAS 1st with defence cuts and UK's continuing decent into insignificance the SAS are losing their relevance with it. I would think Delta/SEAL ST6 (DEVGRU) were 1st.



SAS are in my books still the best many non-SF servicemen(american) who tell about experiences in Iraq and A'stan have real high regard for SAS,these guys can really think on their feet.

yes the budget cut can take away a part of funding but not the legend and brains the SAS possess.

also i am sending you a Message.


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## Tshering22

Though I love the modernization of our special forces that is going on and am relieved to see better equipment coming to them (from a family perspective as well as a national point of view), I personally LOVE the traditional style Ghatak units have been seen using. Here:







Now tell me that looks BADASS!

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## Omega007

boris said:


> many confuse the alpha group to be russian army SF,but it is infact the spetsnaz GRU -said to be the most secretive and most skilled of all russian SF.
> 
> mujahideen feared them,chechens fear them.
> 
> till now only 3 members that too anonymously have given interviews to papers after 9/11 no one from this unit has come on TV or writen books.
> 
> if you want to see a glimpse of their skill i recommend typing in sonny puzikas on youtube and see his skill,sonny was from spetnaz MVD not from GRU but from that you can assess the amazing skill these guys carry


 
I have seen him in the programme named Deadliest Warrior.


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## boris

Omega007 said:


> I have seen him in the programme named Deadliest Warrior.



BEYOND THE FIREARM-II DVD by Sonny Puzikas Available at www.gospelofviolence.com - YouTube

the look at this you will be blown away

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## jha

Tshering22 said:


> Though I love the modernization of our special forces that is going on and am relieved to see better equipment coming to them (from a family perspective as well as a national point of view), I personally LOVE the traditional style Ghatak units have been seen using. Here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now tell me that looks BADASS!



Looks terrifying indeed...

Only problem with our Special Forces is that they are not known for PR value..Its damn difficult to find authentic videos about them.. Talk to some Ghatak and you will have very Juicy stories at your disposal..


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## Abingdonboy

jha said:


> Looks terrifying indeed...
> 
> Only problem with our Special Forces is that they are not known for PR value..Its damn difficult to find authentic videos about them.. Talk to some Ghatak and you will have very Juicy stories at your disposal..



Very true- Indian SOFs very much like to remain in the shadows and let their actions speak for themselves. 


+ btw GHATAKS aren't SF. But I'd love to hear some of these stories.

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
The above pic is one of my favorite. Some of my favorite pics are :
















I mean if the enemy looks at these pics they will pee their pants...



> Very true- Indian SOFs very much like to remain in the shadows and let their actions speak for themselves.


I mean Paras are still well known, we have seen them in videos from time to time. Spetsnaz is more like Special Frontier Force about which we also know very little. Marcos are also secretive but not as much as these two. 



> All right new game,mention your top 5 SF units ranked in order,here's mine:
> 
> 1)S.A.S
> 2)Para(SF)(Only the 8 SF units)
> 3)MARCOS
> 4)ACE(Army Compartmentalized elements new name for Delta Force)
> 5)Spetsnaz GRU


@ boris 
You said about Para SF. Which country you are referring to ? There are many countries which have Para SF.

*Belgian Para Commandos*

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## Abingdonboy

^^^ agreed this pics are epic (the last one especially-Uzi in use, VERY rare). Problem is there aren't enough of them, in recent years we have seen more of these coming out because of embedding reporters and better quality news reporters. But there is still very, very little content available on these ops and operators.

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## Water Car Engineer

*MARCOS*


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## Water Car Engineer

*NSG*


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## Abingdonboy

^^ cool stills, Indian media channels (especially NDTV) are increasingly broadcasting more in-depth content on Indian armed forces and especially SOFs. Rocky and Mayur with GUARUDs,recent A&N doc with a small VT of MARCOs and recent 2-part NSG docs. Not to mention Nat Geo ep of Mission army with 7 PARA (non-SF) and recent Times now "heroes" show presenting some great images and stories from 21 PARA (SF)

Hopefully trend continues and we get to see much more detailed insights into Indian SOFs. Would love to see a proper doc on IN MARCOs as opposed to 30 sec clips (a pipe dream I know given the secrecy they like to enjoy). Also (I know not SF) I would love to see an in-depth doc on the SPG. Without giving away anything potentially secret there is defiantly a gap in terms of media exposure on these guys. Recently Discovery did a doc on USSS that gave great insight but still left much unsaid and quiet. Hopefully one day......

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
You forget about kargil reports, dangerous jobs done by reporters like Barkha Dutt. Also we cannot show all the operations on the TV as it will reveal the operational strategy of our forces in CT operations and also there's always a danger of Human Rights stooges.


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## jha

Abingdonboy said:


> Very true- Indian SOFs very much like to remain in the shadows and let their actions speak for themselves.
> 
> 
> + btw *GHATAKS aren't SF*. But I'd love to hear some of these stories.



I know that sir.. 
Re: Stories- Some other time...


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## boris

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> The above pic is one of my favorite. Some of my favorite pics are :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean if the enemy looks at these pics they will pee their pants...
> 
> 
> I mean Paras are still well known, we have seen them in videos from time to time. Spetsnaz is more like Special Frontier Force about which we also know very little. Marcos are also secretive but not as much as these two.
> 
> 
> @ boris
> You said about Para SF. Which country you are referring to ? There are many countries which have Para SF.
> 
> *Belgian Para Commandos*



I will actually have to go a little bit into the history of the Indian Army SF here,our first two SF units were created in 1965 & 1966 named 9 & 10 paracommando respectively ,in 1979 1 paracommando was added.These 3 units were and are still under the Parachute regiment ,India is a bit different as in all other countries SF has it's own regiment whereas we dont our SF comes under the Parachute regiment.Until 1996 all SF units were called paracommando units.

so after 2000 the differentiation began airborne units came to be called as PARA units and SF units designated as PARA(SF) units,Hence when you see PARA(SF) it means the 8 Indian Army Special Forces units-1,2,3,4,9,10,11,21 with 11 PARA(SF) being the latest addition to the SF family on June 2011.

except for 10 & 21 no unit has been shown on TV till now and nowadays event the Army SF is demanding for the same level of cover from media as MARCOS as bulk of OPS on Kashmir are done by the PARA(SF).

in the next 10 years Army may add 2-3 more SF units.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

boris said:


> I will actually have to go a little bit into the history of the Indian Army SF here,our first two SF units were created in 1965 & 1966 named 9 & 10 paracommando respectively ,in 1979 1 paracommando was added.These 3 units were and are still under the Parachute regiment ,India is a bit different as in all other countries SF has it's own regiment whereas we dont our SF comes under the Parachute regiment.Until 1996 all SF units were called paracommando units.
> 
> so after 2000 the differentiation began airborne units came to be called as PARA units and SF units designated as PARA(SF) units,Hence when you see PARA(SF) it means the 8 Indian Army Special Forces units-1,2,3,4,9,10,11,21 with 11 PARA(SF) being the latest addition to the SF family on June 2011.
> 
> except for 10 & 21 no unit has been shown on TV till now and nowadays event the Army SF is demanding for the same level of cover from media as MARCOS as bulk of OPS on Kashmir are done by the PARA(SF).
> 
> in the next 10 years Army may add 2-3 more SF units.



The Indian Army PARA is by far the most experienced Special Force that India has and in my opinion the best too.The PARA face action regularly in Kashmir and North East.They have conducted operations(in recent past) which none of the other two Special forces will do in the near future too.

Paras dont cover their face but are very secretive about their operations and its better than some other forces hiding their faces and saying they are secretive in some operations and going and giving interviews while the 26/11 operation was still going on and gunshots could be heard in the other.

Paras did a great job in Lolab valley in Kashmir.Hearing some of the stories i got to hear from some of the RR guys i got to know they have done a great job there and these were the type of operations i dont think the other two SFs have done in recent past or will do in near future.

The more experienced you are matters more than how cool you look when talking of SFs.

Really great men..the PARAS...i salute them and respect them for what they are and what they are doing everyday in Kashmir and NE...wish they get good equipments in future which will make them more lethal and wish they always remain secretive because that is the secret to success for a special force...the more your commandos are down to earth..the more your chances of success.

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## angeldemon_007

> I will actually have to go a little bit into the history of the Indian Army SF here,our first two SF units were created in 1965 & 1966 named 9 & 10 paracommando respectively ,in 1979 1 paracommando was added.These 3 units were and are still under the Parachute regiment ,India is a bit different as in all other countries SF has it's own regiment whereas we dont our SF comes under the Parachute regiment.Until 1996 all SF units were called paracommando units.
> 
> so after 2000 the differentiation began airborne units came to be called as PARA units and SF units designated as PARA(SF) units,Hence when you see PARA(SF) it means the 8 Indian Army Special Forces units-1,2,3,4,9,10,11,21 with 11 PARA(SF) being the latest addition to the SF family on June 2011.
> 
> except for 10 & 21 no unit has been shown on TV till now and nowadays event the Army SF is demanding for the same level of cover from media as MARCOS as bulk of OPS on Kashmir are done by the PARA(SF).
> 
> in the next 10 years Army may add 2-3 more SF units.


We all know about what you written i just wanna know in your list the 2nd number that you wrote was para. Now there are many countries that para SF and parachute regiment like greece, germany etc. etc. German paras are very good. Now i think you meant indian para SF.



> The Indian Army PARA is by far the most experienced Special Force that India has and in my opinion the best too.The PARA face action regularly in Kashmir and North East.They have conducted operations(in recent past) which none of the other two Special forces will do in the near future too.


Marcos are also stationed in JnK mainly near the water bodies and were they are stationed every terrorist is frightened of them but hell so as the case with Paras but i think you are right Paras have the most experience in all the SF units in India. I can't really say about SFF because they deal with RAW and IB and i think they might have been in grab operations in Nepal.

Do you remember an old video of NDTV in which it was mentioned that Paras won the 1st prize in SA where they hold various exercises with different SF around the globe.



> Paras dont cover their face but are very secretive about their operations and its better than some other forces hiding their faces


It depends. I heard paras have grown beard and they mingled with the crowd and the intel. I think whenever its necessary to hide identity they do because their lives depend on it and thats why you can see many time paras with their face covered during many operations.


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## boris

angeldemon_007 said:


> We all know about what you written i just wanna know in your list the 2nd number that you wrote was para. Now there are many countries that para SF and parachute regiment like greece, germany etc. etc. German paras are very good. Now i think you meant indian para SF.
> 
> 
> 
> Marcos are also stationed in JnK mainly near the water bodies and were they are stationed every terrorist is frightened of them but hell so as the case with Paras but i think you are right Paras have the most experience in all the SF units in India. I can't really say about SFF because they deal with RAW and IB and i think they might have been in grab operations in Nepal.
> 
> Do you remember an old video of NDTV in which it was mentioned that Paras won the 1st prize in SA where they hold various exercises with different SF around the globe.
> 
> 
> It depends. I heard paras have grown beard and they mingled with the crowd and the intel. I think whenever its necessary to hide identity they do because their lives depend on it and thats why you can see many time paras with their face covered during many operations.



i think abingdonboy & I have mentioned about SFF role in kashmir-SFF commandos and the best of the para(SF) are part of a group called Special Group,in army SF circle's the military designation of Special Group is 22 Special Forces


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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> i think abingdonboy & I have mentioned about SFF role in kashmir-SFF commandos and the best of the para(SF) are part of a group called Special Group,in army SF circle's the military designation of Special Group is 22 Special Forces



Just to add Special Group (22 SF) are a task force stationed in J&K made up mostly of PARA SF men and SFF along with a select few from J&K police SOG and on occasion MARCOs and IAF Guarud who are given "baptisms of fire" in operational tours in J&K atttced to Special Group or with other PARA SF units.

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## Water Car Engineer

Badass clips here.


Tavors!!!


21:40 Special forces with M4+ Holographic sight+grip etc


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> We all know about what you written i just wanna know in your list the 2nd number that you wrote was para. Now there are many countries that para SF and parachute regiment like greece, germany etc. etc. German paras are very good. Now i think you meant indian para SF.
> 
> 
> Marcos are also stationed in JnK mainly near the water bodies and were they are stationed every terrorist is frightened of them but hell so as the case with Paras but i think you are right Paras have the most experience in all the SF units in India. I can't really say about SFF because they deal with RAW and IB and i think they might have been in grab operations in Nepal.
> 
> Do you remember an old video of NDTV in which it was mentioned that Paras won the 1st prize in SA where they hold various exercises with different SF around the globe.
> 
> 
> It depends. I heard paras have grown beard and they mingled with the crowd and the intel. I think whenever its necessary to hide identity they do because their lives depend on it and thats why you can see many time paras with their face covered during many operations.



Yes marcos are stationed in Kashmir but if terrorism in Kashmir is compared with a school then Wular lake where Marcos are deployed would be a kindergarten.The real action is in places like Lolab forests,Kupwara,Anantnag(once upon a time) and LOC areas.

The problem lies in us not having a JSOC.On the one hand Paras are overburdened with work and on the other Marcos and Garuds are not facing the action they should face as a Special operations Unit.The special operation soldiers should be experienced and having 5-10 commandos in Wular lake is not what is good for Marcos.They need to have more men in Kashmir and N.E specially in dangerous areas and specially Garuds who have a long way to go in becoming a truly deadly special operations unit.

Regarding covering their faces the IA troops do it for various reasons and yeah Paras who are doing undercover operation always keep a beard.


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## MrIndianSikh

Indian SOF's with American SOF's 

"Training with the Special Forces - Yudh Abyas" in HD - YouTube


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
U can find this video a couple dozen times on this forum itself. Why you posting this year old video?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Anyways off to another topic.

I recently visited my state J&k and i was amazed to see so many troops having Tavor.I doubt we have 10,000 Tavors.I think the number is much more than that.I even saw BSF guys with Tavor besides CRPF and ARMY guys.

Also worth mentioning is the fact that the Chinese have really improved the infrastructure in Pakistani J&K(i visited a border area in Kashmir where i saw this)


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## ChinaToday

i have a question if india army is so powerful, why it took them 2 or 3 days to get rid of just 11 terrorists in mumbai.

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## Seaman

Because of hostage,,and the main thing was that we don,t want casualities,,if we want to kill them we can kill them within hours we can use gas bombs and other weapons but what about innocent peoples...thats why it took time...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ChinaToday said:


> i have a question if india army is so powerful, why it took them 2 or 3 days to get rid of just 11 terrorists in mumbai.



1.Coz the NSG(the unit which carries out such operations) was not based in Mumbai and it took time for them to reach Mumbai.
2.Coz the terrorists were active in different place and not in one place.
3.There were a lot of rooms to clear..so it took time to clear hundreds of room.

The Indian Army didnt carry out the operation but the soldiers who conducted the operation were from the Army.There is a special unit in India which is the National Security Guards which is responsible for carrying out such operations and comprises of men from the Army.


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## Firemaster

ChinaToday said:


> i have a question if india army is so powerful, why it took them 2 or 3 days to get rid of just 11 terrorists in mumbai.


Because we don't kill our citizens,only terrorists


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## Abingdonboy

ChinaToday said:


> i have a question if india army is so powerful, why it took them 2 or 3 days to get rid of just 11 terrorists in mumbai.


 

What an ignorant question that has been discussed to death SO many times here and on other sites. Here is the short answer:

1) the Mumbai police were simply overwhelmed by the scale of the attacks as they unfolded and the confusion that persisted at the time threw the Mumbai police into chaos. As the events unfolded there were literally 10,000s of reports and calls coming into the police control room of bombs all over the city and gunmen everywhere. The terrorists were smart enough to create such chaos by planting numerous IEDs in mobile targets such as taxis so the police were sent to numerous locations and the terrorists themselves optimised their numbers by splitting into small teams and constantly moving around. 


The Mumbai police's plight was not helped by having the most senior members of its anti-terror squad killed by the terrorists in the line of duty. 


2) the slow response by dedicated CT teams- NSG/MARCOs. Firstly the elite IN MARCOs who have a base in Mumbai were ready and waiting to be given the go to enter Mumbai but the Mumbai police/GOVT were initially reluctant to ask for outside help and/or realise the seriousness of the situation. Once the MARCOs were given the "go" they were on scene relatively quickly and able to contain the terrorists somewhat until NSG arrived. Secondly the NSG who are the country's dedicated CT force and whose role it was to combat such attacks faced serious delays in getting to Mumbai. The IAF IL-76 that flew them to Mumbai from Delhi where they are based had to be flown in from Chandigarh in Punjab. Once the NSG were on the ground they were effective in ending the situation but initial delays could not made up for. 

3) the nature of this attack. This attack was the most audacious and revolutionary since 9/11- attackers coming in from sea and going on a murderous rampage in built up areas and hotels. Most police forces agreed their initial response to the attacks wouldn't have been any better. These terrorists had been trained by professional military of Pakistan and it was like a SF insertion rather than the typical rag-tag militia and their tactics and weapon handling mirror this. The fact the hotels/locations combined had over 4,000 rooms meant this was a MAMMOTH task for and SF and all SFs agree this was an incredible op by NSG which they couldn't have done any better in the same circumstances. 


There are of course numerous other factors but I don't feel the need to go any more. 




But I'm glad to report most if not all shortcomings realised during 26/11 have been resolved. NSG hubs have been raised in most major cities, most states/cities have raised/upgraded police QRT/SWAT teams to give adequate response as first responders including Mumbai/Mahrastra police who have QRT/ Force One. Also NSG have been given a MASSIVE upgrade that we can already see in recent vids and by 2014-5 they will be unstoppable. Also they have been given the means to commend ere any commercial aircraft in Delhi airport (where they are based) if a military AC is not available. (although during recent Mumbai blasts the NSG QRF were alerted and loaded onto a RAW ARC IL-76, based in Delhi, on the Tarmac and ready to respond within 15 mins). There are many other measures that have also been taken but, again, there's no need to go any deeper. 



And the response to such scenarios is not measured in conventional military might. It is easy for you to sit there an question in hindsight but the fact this was a completely new form of terror sim
Ly can't be understated. NO ONE IN THE WORLD WAS READY IN 2008 FOR SUCH AN ATTACK.

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## noksss

ChinaToday said:


> i have a question if india army is so powerful, why it took them 2 or 3 days to get rid of just 11 terrorists in mumbai.



Let me ask u a question y it took 20 hours to end the kabul seige by NATO which has the combination of world's most powerful military nations


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## Abingdonboy

Does anyone else notice that in the HR op of Jai Jawan with Ranbir Kapoor (21.40-) that the SF team swap weapons mid way? From M4-Tavor. Probably just two separate demonstrations edited together but still why do they feel the need to practice with both weapons? I thought it was personal choice which weapon the individual SF trooper opted for. 



On second thoughts it makes sense to me- they have to be proficient in all their weapons. 


Just interesting.

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## Splurgenxs

> i have a question if india army is so powerful, why it took them 2 or 3 days to get rid of just 11 terrorists in mumbai.



y do u chose to be like that?u can do better.



> Anyways off to another topic.
> 
> I recently visited my state J&k and i was amazed to see so many troops having Tavor.I doubt we have 10,000 Tavors.I think the number is much more than that.I even saw BSF guys with Tavor besides CRPF and ARMY guys.
> 
> Also worth mentioning is the fact that the Chinese have really improved the infrastructure in Pakistani J&K(i visited a border area in Kashmir where i saw this)



what place u from? my families from rajganj and sopore.


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## Abingdonboy

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> Anyways off to another topic.
> 
> I recently visited my state J&k and i was amazed to see so many troops having Tavor.I doubt we have 10,000 Tavors.I think the number is much more than that.I even saw BSF guys with Tavor besides CRPF and ARMY guys.
> 
> Also worth mentioning is the fact that the Chinese have really improved the infrastructure in Pakistani J&K(i visited a border area in Kashmir where i saw this)



I'd say this was a forgone conclusion. I mean the CRPF has placed orders for 12,000+ alone with option for same amount again to be iced in J&K aswell as in anti-Naxal fight. And the Indian SOFs seem to have adopted the Tavor as its standard weapon- MARCOs have them (recent pics show this) all PARA SF have/are getting them and it is reported IAF Gurad also have the Tavor. The SOFs alone account for ~14,000 (although I doubt it would be a 1-1 purchase as personal preference comes in and the IA SF already have many modified M4s). Not sure about BSF but I also know SFF have inducted many Tavors and many other federal forces are likely to follow.

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## TOPGUN

Nic pic's guys thx for sharing


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

*Images from this video*

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## Abingdonboy

Thanks for the stills mate. Still rubbing my hands together with glee- such an unexpected (pleasant) surprise. I knew Indian SOFs were getting a huge upgrade but I didn't think we'd see the fruits for some time yet, someone somewhere knows what they're doing.

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## MUHARIB

Abingdonboy said:


> Thanks for the stills mate. Still rubbing my hands together with glee- such an unexpected (pleasant) surprise. I knew Indian SOFs were getting a huge upgrade but I didn't think we'd see the fruits for some time yet, someone somewhere knows what they're doing.



Hope we get light weight helmets, good nvg's...advanced comm systems, ballistic googles and something like the sopmod kit on the rifles....still a long way to go..but we are on the right track!!


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## Abingdonboy

MUHARIB said:


> Hope we get light weight helmets, good nvg's...advanced comm systems, ballistic googles and something like the sopmod kit on the rifles....still a long way to go..but we are on the right track!!


Absolutely, I believe I have already seen some of this tech with Indian SOFs, but of course there is still much room for growth. And agreed about SOPMOD, 1 PARA's rifles have pictanical rails so there is the capacity for such things and I'm sure they have accessories they didn't show for this vid.

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Helmets and NVGs are already in service they haven't been shown here on the video. I don't know about comm systems, but BEL lauched the new SDR during Aero India 2011, they will soon be in service.



> And agreed about SOPMOD, 1 PARA's rifles have pictanical rails so there is the capacity for such things and I'm sure they have accessories they didn't show for this vid.


Thats what i was going to say. 

I also heard those small notebooks built are also in service in JnK and most likely with Paras.

I must say Paras looks really lethal on the other hand the recent NSG video shown on NDTV is not encouraging especially their gears.


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Helmets and NVGs are already in service they haven't been shown here on the video. I don't know about comm systems, but BEL lauched the new SDR during Aero India 2011, they will soon be in service.
> 
> 
> Thats what i was going to say.
> 
> I also heard those *small notebooks *built are also in service in JnK and most likely with Paras.
> 
> I must say Paras looks really lethal on the other hand the recent NSG video shown on NDTV is not encouraging especially their gears.



What "notebooks" are you referring to? And I'd disagree, I'd say the recent vid of NSG was VERY encouraging (of course their were still some issues like helmets). But whatever according to NSG Cheif by 2015 NSG will be world class in terms of kit.


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## angeldemon_007

> I'd say the recent vid of NSG was VERY encouraging (of course their were still some issues like helmets).


thats what i meant. Also Paras are using tavor which has a range of 300 m and NSG uses MP5.



> But whatever according to NSG Cheif by 2015 NSG will be world class in terms of kit.


Who cares. NSG is a small force and if u wanna arm it, you just need a couple years. Also according to NSG chief (if you will read the article) the situations for which they are preparing future NSG commandos might never happen as those situation will happen if they fight in enemy territory and for that job we have paras, marcos and SFF. NSG only take care VVIP security and any internal terror threat.


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> thats what i meant. Also Paras are using tavor which has a range of 300 m and NSG uses MP5.
> 
> 
> Who cares. NSG is a small force and if u wanna arm it, you just need a couple years. Also according to NSG chief (if you will read the article) the situations for which they are preparing future NSG commandos might never happen as those situation will happen if they fight in enemy territory and for that job we have paras, marcos and SFF. NSG only take care VVIP security and any internal terror threat.



The MP-5 is ideal for them as they operate mainly in a CQB environment. But (as seen in tha vid) they do also have the SIG-552 for longer range/BPJ kills. 


And why wouldn't you want the NSG upgraded to the best possible standard? Just because there are the PARA SF, MARCOS,SFF, GUARDS doesn't mean NSG shouldn't be given adequate resources. In the age of new terror NSG should be all they can possibly be and ready for anything they may face. The upgrade the Cheif mentions can only be a positive thing.

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## MUHARIB

Ill be more happy when i see them with their full gear...and full gear=helmet, comms, sopmod [anything like it since they ve picatinny rails in the sides] and more stuff like camel back etc etc]


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## Abingdonboy

MUHARIB said:


> Ill be more happy when i see them with their full gear...and full gear=helmet, comms, sopmod [anything like it since they ve picatinny rails in the sides] and more stuff like camel back etc etc]




That day certainly doesn't seem too far away. But in regards to Helmets, I'm not sure as IA SF don't seem to like wearing helmets. Instead they prefer to wear camo cloths or balaclavas and Patkas only when completely necessary. we've seen MARCOs and Guard with helmets (Kevlar and ballistic WITH NVG mounts) though.


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## angeldemon_007

> The MP-5 is ideal for them as they operate mainly in a CQB environment. But (as seen in tha vid) they do also have the SIG-552 for longer range/BPJ kills.


MP5 is good for CQB but also if you sent a team to fight a menace, then you don't equip all the soldier with MP5. In the team every soldier has been assign a separate job and they should be equip accordingly. Thats what we saw in Paras video and thats other SF around the globe does.



> And why wouldn't you want the NSG upgraded to the best possible standard?


I want then to be upgraded to the best standard in the world but i don't want them to be prepared for the job for which they were not established in the first place.



> Just because there are the PARA SF, MARCOS,SFF, GUARDS doesn't mean NSG shouldn't be given adequate resources.


Dude i am sure you didn't read the article. According to the article NSG chief wants this force to be ready to do clandestine operations in enemy territory for which we have Paras and Marcos and SFF. Every force is assigned a special purpose and NSG is not meant for such jobs. As far as Garuds are concerned, they were established for the protection of our aerial set up.

I never said we should not arm NSG. What i simply wanna say is that, just go to international vendors and purchase whatever is there best so as to equip them quickly or like FINSAS set up a standard set of equipments for all SF in our country (the number will be close to 50000). Its not even economical and also its time consuming to make equipments for a particular force. Whatever extra equipment a particular SF needs can be purchased globally rest should be set up as standard.


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> MP5 is good for CQB but also if you sent a team to fight a menace, then you don't equip all the soldier with MP5. In the team every soldier has been assign a separate job and they should be equip accordingly. Thats what we saw in Paras video and thats other SF around the globe does.
> 
> 
> I want then to be upgraded to the best standard in the world but i don't want them to be prepared for the job for which they were not established in the first place.
> 
> 
> Dude i am sure you didn't read the article. According to the article NSG chief wants this force to be ready to do clandestine operations in enemy territory for which we have Paras and Marcos and SFF. Every force is assigned a special purpose and NSG is not meant for such jobs. As far as Garuds are concerned, they were established for the protection of our aerial set up.
> 
> I never said we should not arm NSG. What i simply wanna say is that, just go to international vendors and purchase whatever is there best so as to equip them quickly or like FINSAS set up a standard set of equipments for all SF in our country (the number will be close to 50000). Its not even economical and also its time consuming to make equipments for a particular force. Whatever extra equipment a particular SF needs can be purchased globally rest should be set up as standard.



Pal, I see what you are saying but what I took from the NSG Cheif's remarks was NSG should be ready to conduct CT ops anywhere in the world like IC-148 hijacking for example where NSG were ready to storm Indian airliner in Afghanistan. And as far as upgrades are going I'd say what you suggest is sort of happening, if you look at much of the gear all Indian SOFs use you will actually see quite a high degree of commanlity from comms to weapons to tactical vests etc and regarding MP-5 and NSG, like I said there are members in NSG team who operate MP-5 and some that operate SIG-552. 

Also regarding Guarud and their operational mandate I'd say (and this has been discussed to death) their role is much more than just asset protection, that is what IAF POLICE are specifically for. Yes, Guarud have been used for certain high value protection duties but these are exceptions rather than the rule. Guarud are mostly for FAC and CSAR duties however as they are likely to be (and are in J&K) be attached to JSOGs with PARA SF and MARCOs they are also trained to a very high degree in all environments such as jungle, urban,mountain and desert and in all operations such as HR, CT,CSAR, asset protection, snatch and grab, airborne ops etc along the same lines as other Indian SOFs. However Guarud's actual usablity and function has always been a subject of much debate, regardless as we know and have seen they are exceptionally dedicated and competent SFs operators who will accomplish any task given to them.

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## MUHARIB

Abingdonboy said:


> That day certainly doesn't seem too far away. But in regards to Helmets, I'm not sure as IA SF don't seem to like wearing helmets. Instead they prefer to wear camo cloths or balaclavas and Patkas only when completely necessary. we've seen MARCOs and Guard with helmets (Kevlar and ballistic WITH NVG mounts) though.



Yeah!! it certainly doesnt seem like IA SF like to wear helmets...well Marcos and Garuds ve them i want to see Para SF with them!!


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## Abingdonboy

MUHARIB said:


> Yeah!! it certainly doesnt seem like IA SF like to wear helmets...well Marcos and Garuds ve them i want to see Para SF with them!!



Not really what you want but PARA SF with Patkas:









They do have Kevlar helmets but I can't seem to find the pics right now.

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> Not really what you want but PARA SF with Patkas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They do have Kevlar helmets but I can't seem to find the pics right now.



These "Patkas" are'nt a villager's headgear (_Pagri_)! 
They have a Kevlar lining and are resistant to Small Arms and splinter impact, while being light to boot. Plus they are less of an impediment to all-round vision. That is the reason why they are so popular. India is a largely tropical country where heat, sweat and dust can cause discomfort.


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## MUHARIB

Why cant they add nvg mounts on these patkas??


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Not sure about NVG but i think Patkas look hot on our SF especially in the above pics. Patkas can withstand AK rounds and its also light, i don't see anything better than this.


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## Abingdonboy

MUHARIB said:


> Why cant they add nvg mounts on these patkas??



I have definitely seen SF pics with Patkas with NVG mounts.


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## Thundersword



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## Roybot

Abingdonboy said:


>



For a minute I though that this was from a video game or something!

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## Veeru

Thundersword said:


>


 
lol, INSAS and AKs

- costume is not water proof
- No eye gear
- No tavor

a ill-equipped, poorly supported and step motherly treated But kick-***.

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## Abingdonboy

Veeru said:


> lol, INSAS and AKs
> 
> - costume is not water proof
> - No eye gear
> - No tavor
> 
> a ill-equipped, poorly supported and step motherly treated But kick-***.



This is just a photo op for Shiv Aroor, we can't really judge them by this alone. As we saw from recent NDTV doc @ ANC where MARCOs (probobly same guys as pic was taken at A&N) had Tavor eye gear, Helemts and much more. Lets wait for the full vid on the weekend before judging.

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## MUHARIB

Abingdonboy said:


> I have definitely seen SF pics with Patkas with NVG mounts.



That is awesome...can you upload them??


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## raje

PlanetWarrior said:


> Why does our army / special forces / police have to "display" the bodies of militants or enemies of our nation after they have killed them. That is barbaric to me. If they kill them, just cremate or bury the bodies. They fought for a cause which we do not agree with but a cause nonetheless. To display their dead bodies is disrespectful IMO.


brother killing civilians cant be justified as a cause, if they have a cause they can fight the state by fighting state forces if maoist were only killing police and army guys ,i would have called them soilder and would have agreed with you and even probably supported them. but killing of civilian of the same region and who are innocent , is nothing but barbaric ,vandalism and nothing else, so they dont deserve respect, but after dead even a dog should be treated well, i agree, and they are after all human and most of them are misguided so i have sympathy.but i dont agree about the cause of killing your own people especially innocent 1cn, (killing of outsiders on regional issue could be justifed if injustice is done on the locals intentionaly or otherwise)


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## Abingdonboy

Good vid but the best part is the tiny feature on IN MARCOs (17min-)

????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

IN MARCOS
























Chindits: INS Sukanya Interdicts Three Pirate Vessels In A Single Operation

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## Indian Army

With full gear!!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Indian Army said:


> With full gear!!!



These are not MARCOS.

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## boris

CoLdHeArTeD DUDE said:


> These are not MARCOS.



yep they are navy VBSS teams,not everything in Wiki is 100% correct

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## Agent X




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## Agent X




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## Agent X




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## Agent X




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## Agent X




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## Agent X




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## boris

Some of the photos arent of SF not all images on getty's are 100% accurate and the guys in blue BPJ's are the MARCOS.


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## Agent X



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## Agent X



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## Agent X



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## Agent X




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## MUHARIB

Dude WTF man??? Why you posting random pics??

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## Abingdonboy

^^^ right this is meant to be INDIAN ARMY AND SPECIAL FORCES, none of the above fall in this category.

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## Omega007

GREAT thread.Only thing I couldn't get is the exitement w.r.t Kevlar helmets.I mean what's so special about them??They are not out of this world or something!!


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## lem34

Where were these guys during the attack on bombay by terrorists? why werent they used?

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## MUHARIB

Aryan_B said:


> Where were these guys during the attack on bombay by terrorists? why werent they used?



Genuine question or you trolling??

---------- Post added at 01:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 AM ----------




Aryan_B said:


> Where were these guys during the attack on bombay by terrorists? why werent they used?



Genuine question or you trolling??


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## lem34

Yaar serious why wernt they used?

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## tony singh

Aryan_B said:


> Where were these guys during the attack on bombay by terrorists? why werent they used?




NSG were based in Delhi had to fly to Mumbai this is all changed after 26/11 with regional hubs.


Our special forces lacked the Corner shot gun which we have now bought in and placed more orders for Helicopters.

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------







This is what we needed when 26/11 went down.


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## MUHARIB

Aryan_B said:


> Yaar serious why wernt they used?


 
Othr than NSG no other SFunits are responsible for this role...and since NSG was not present at that time the MARCOS moved in and rescued many hostages and kept the terrorists at bay till the NSG arrived...the transportation system was poor hence the delay but now after 26/11 many things have changed and there are NSG hubs in many major cities.
In Short NSG were not used in the first hours of the attack.

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## Jason bourne

corner shot how many we have ?


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## boris

Aryan_B said:


> Yaar serious why wernt they used?



Dekh dost India has an amazing system of bureaucracy if NSG is meant for urban combat means only they will be used,firstly they sent in the MARCOS and only 7 MARCOS each went in Taj and Oberoi without any building layout,entry points,exit points,number of terrorists etc.For any SF unit zero intel is a nightmare and if you recall Indian media was at one time reporting some 50 terrorists involved over all.Even army SF said that when we are at Agra with a plane ready why the bloody hell werent we sent and i know one thing that in CQB MARCOS and PARA(SF) can beat NSG hands down.MARCOS has probably the best killing house in India.


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## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> Dekh dost India has an amazing system of bureaucracy if NSG is meant for urban combat means only they will be used,firstly they sent in the MARCOS and only 7 MARCOS each went in Taj and Oberoi without any building layout,entry points,exit points,number of terrorists etc.For any SF unit zero intel is a nightmare and if you recall Indian media was at one time reporting some 50 terrorists involved over all.Even army SF said that when we are at Agra with a plane ready why the bloody hell werent we sent and *i know one thing that in CQB MARCOS and PARA(SF) can beat NSG hands down.MARCOS has probably the best killing house in India.*



How do you know this? Sources? Also NSG is a dedicated CT force so surely they would spend far more time in kill houses than the PARA SF and MARCOs who have much wider remits. Also much of NSG SAG are PARA SF on deputation.

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## IndianArmy

boris said:


> Dekh dost India has an amazing system of bureaucracy if NSG is meant for urban combat means only they will be used,firstly they sent in the MARCOS and only 7 MARCOS each went in Taj and Oberoi without any building layout,entry points,exit points,number of terrorists etc.For any SF unit zero intel is a nightmare and if you recall Indian media was at one time reporting some 50 terrorists involved over all.Even army SF said that when we are at Agra with a plane ready why the bloody hell werent we sent and i know one thing that in CQB MARCOS and PARA(SF) can beat NSG hands down.MARCOS has probably the best killing house in India.




Well son, NSG by itself is divided into two, The 51 SAG (Special Action Group) and 52 SAG . One is trained for counter terrorism while the other is for Counter hijack. There is also something called NSG - Special Rangers Group or SRG who are used for isolating target areas. NSG is indeed a force to recon with.

SRG is the group in the spotlight as Media gets a coverage of only them while the real commandos the SAG are heavily trained with moderate or good gear.

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## Abingdonboy

IndianArmy said:


> Well son, NSG by itself is divided into two, The 51 SAG (Special Action Group) and 52 SAG . One is trained for counter terrorism while the other is for Counter hijack. There is also something called NSG - Special Rangers Group or SRG who are used for isolating target areas. NSG is indeed a force to recon with.
> 
> SRG is the group in the spotlight as Media gets a coverage of only them while the real commandos the SAG are heavily trained with moderate or good gear.



You forget the SRG is mainly used for VVIP protection, that is why they are in the media spotlight. Post 26/11 the SAG have undergone quite extensive upgrades which are ongoing, and supposedly by 2014 they will have state of the art, networked advanced kit for all. 

Recent vid of NSG, shows some post 26/11 upgrades:
???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??????

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## Abingdonboy

Some screen shots from above vid, not looking too shabby:

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## IndianArmy

Abingdonboy said:


> You forget the SRG is mainly used for VVIP protection, that is why they are in the media spotlight. Post 26/11 the SRG have undergone quite extensive upgrades which are ongoing, and supposedly by 2014 they will have state of the art, networked advanced kit for all.
> 
> Recent vid of NSG, shows some post 26/11 upgrades:
> ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??????




I am not much aware of these guys, not only them but any paramilitary forces. SRG gets all the attention is all I know.


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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> How do you know this? Sources? Also NSG is a dedicated CT force so surely they would spend far more time in kill houses than the PARA SF and MARCOs who have much wider remits. Also much of NSG SAG are PARA SF on deputation.



MARCOS were trained by the SEALs ,SEALs all train in counter terrorism as part of their training hence the MARCOS from the beginning picked it up and have evolved their tactics.

NSG may be dedicated to urban counter terrorism but like that so is the SWAT in US but tactics differ even though the NSG has SF guys on deputation but tactics differ from a military SF unit to a paramilitary unit like NSG,tactics like Method of Entry,Room clearance procedures,type of demolitions used.Since 26/11 Army SF has dedicated teams training for Counter Terrorism/CQB at the SFTS Nahan and they are on standby ,MARCOS practices a lot of CQB at Vizag.

NSG is a paramilitary force as it comes under the home ministry,it is a special response unit not a Special Forces unit.A unit capable of performing in all environments and capable of things like recon,intellegence collection,sabotage,demolitions is what is called an SF unit and NSG is only for CT you wont send NSG to blow enemy comms behind enemy lines hence it is not an SF unit.


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## Abingdonboy

IndianArmy said:


> I am not much aware of these guys, not only them but any paramilitary forces. SRG gets all the attention is all I know.


 No, you got it pretty much right in terms of 51/52 SAG, these are the guys who carry out the offensive CT jobs and are recruited from IA (many from SF) whilst the men of SRG are recruited from IPS and CAPFs. SRG are those who carry out VVIP protection and hence get all the attention. 


boris said:


> MARCOS were trained by the SEALs ,SEALs all train in counter terrorism as part of their training hence the MARCOS from the beginning picked it up and have evolved their tactics.
> 
> NSG may be dedicated to urban counter terrorism but like that so is the SWAT in US but tactics differ even though the NSG has SF guys on deputation but tactics differ from a military SF unit to a paramilitary unit like NSG,tactics like Method of Entry,Room clearance procedures,type of demolitions used.Since 26/11 Army SF has dedicated teams training for Counter Terrorism/CQB at the SFTS Nahan and they are on standby ,MARCOS practices a lot of CQB at Vizag.
> 
> NSG is a paramilitary force as it comes under the home ministry,it is a special response unit not a Special Forces unit.A unit capable of performing in all environments and capable of things like recon,intellegence collection,sabotage,demolitions is what is called an SF unit and NSG is only for CT you wont send NSG to blow enemy comms behind enemy lines hence it is not an SF unit.



Mate I'm not saying NSG are SF, far from it. But as a dedicated CT force they are trained accordingly and focus on CT ops primarily whilst IA SF and MARCOs have a HUGE operational remit ranging from Airborne ops to jungle, urban, mountain warfare aswell as demolition HR etc etc ASWELL AS CT. Hence they have to divide their time between training whereas NSG devote all their time to CT ops. Being elite SOFs PARA SF and MARCOs are incredibly capable in all fields including CT no doubt. 

The closest comparison to NSG would be FBI HRT, that's not to say Delta and SEALs aren't good at CT but it is not their PRIMARY role, just a module in their training just part of their remit.

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## Jason bourne

what abt this finsas programe ... no new news abt it ?


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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> No, you got it pretty much right in terms of 51/52 SAG, these are the guys who carry out the offensive CT jobs and are recruited from IA (many from SF) whilst the men of SRG are recruited from IPS and CAPFs. SRG are those who carry out VVIP protection and hence get all the attention.
> 
> 
> Mate I'm not saying NSG are SF, far from it. But as a dedicated CT force they are trained accordingly and focus on CT ops primarily whilst IA SF and MARCOs have a HUGE operational remit ranging from Airborne ops to jungle, urban, mountain warfare aswell as demolition HR etc etc ASWELL AS CT. Hence they have to divide their time between training whereas NSG devote all their time to CT ops. Being elite SOFs PARA SF and MARCOs are incredibly capable in all fields including CT no doubt.
> 
> The closest comparison to NSG would be FBI HRT, that's not to say Delta and SEALs aren't good at CT but it is not their PRIMARY role, just a module in their training just part of their remit.



Agreed mate, but on the point of Delta and DEVGRU their main job is CT from what i have read by former members they spend max times in killing houses firing almost a thousand rounds everyday.


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## angeldemon_007

*Marcos in new uniform*












---------- Post added at 04:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

*CRPF Cobra Commandos*

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## Abingdonboy

^^^ SWEET!! is that the US ACU the MARCOs are rocking? I wonder how this camo choice came about?

And COBRA seem to be sporting USMC MARPART. 

Digicamos and Tavors seem to be the new trend. 


Btw where'd you get the MARCOs pics? I've seen the COBRA pics before but not the MARCOs ones. 

+ if possible post more!!

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Sure...
Marcos pics is from Indian Navy preparation for the President's Fleet Review on December 20th.

*More than 60 ships and submarines will participate from the Indian Navy, Coast Guard and the merchant marine service as well. The navy will deploy over 48 aircraft, including the recently inducted MiG-29K and helicopters like the Sea Kings 42C. There is no foreign participation either by way of platforms or delegations. This year new ships such as INS Shivalik would be showcased before the president. *

In a couple years we will see a very lethal looks of Marcos. The plans for IN to go for foreign vendor to arm their SF will be completed more quickly than any other force in India and considering the small size of Marcos the deliveries will be quick. But this will happen if the order will be placed on time.

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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Sure...
> Marcos pics is from Indian Navy preparation for the President's Fleet Review on December 20th.
> 
> *More than 60 ships and submarines will participate from the Indian Navy, Coast Guard and the merchant marine service as well. The navy will deploy over 48 aircraft, including the recently inducted MiG-29K and helicopters like the Sea Kings 42C. There is no foreign participation either by way of platforms or delegations. This year new ships such as INS Shivalik would be showcased before the president. *
> 
> In a couple years we will see a very lethal looks of Marcos. The plans for IN to go for foreign vendor to arm their SF will be completed more quickly than any other force in India and considering the small size of Marcos the deliveries will be quick. But this will happen if the order will be placed on time.



MARCOs already look awesome it's hard to imagine how much more lethal they could get. I can't wait to see the results in a few years.


+ it looks like in the pics it is the INS VIRAAT the MARCOs are fast roping onto.

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## Bhairava

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^^ SWEET!! is that the US ACU the MARCOs are rocking? I wonder how this camo choice came about?



Actually this camo scheme 'merges' them much better with the sea background than the previous 'black' one which made them look distinct on a sea background.

I have always wondered about that particular camo choice for MARCOS. Thank God, somebody in Navy too had my same thoughts

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## MUHARIB

awesome...but it would be nice if they take these pics with there nvg's on them and rifle mods.


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## Abingdonboy

MUHARIB said:


> awesome...but it would be nice if they take these pics with there nvg's on them and rifle mods.



MARCOs have helmet-mounted NVGs, we have seen this, but as this op was carried out during the DAY, there is no need for them to be fixed/used.

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## Abingdonboy

Fellas, check it out:

IN MARCOs onboard INS VIRAAT:


For some reason I am not allowed to post pics from this site, so if you're interested pm me and I'll give you the link.

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## angeldemon_007

> MARCOs already look awesome it's hard to imagine how much more lethal they could get. I can't wait to see the results in a few years.


They will look like other top SF...


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## Abingdonboy

Tbh apart from first pic of US SF (even 2nd pic with SEALS) recent pics/vids of Indian SOFs have shown they are not ar off these standards and the rapid pace of modernisation seems to indicate they will soon be at this level within 3-4 years. Apart from "looks" I'd still say the training, professionalism and resolve of Indian SOFs is up there with the best.

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## baker

Bhairava said:


> Actually this camo scheme 'merges' them much better with the sea background than the previous 'black' one which made them look distinct on a sea background.
> 
> I have always wondered about that particular camo choice for MARCOS. Thank God, somebody in Navy too had my same thoughts


exactly my thought also... marcos looks stunning with new camo...


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## sms

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^^ SWEET!! is that the US ACU the MARCOs are rocking? I wonder how this camo choice came about?
> 
> And COBRA seem to be sporting USMC MARPART.
> 
> Digicamos and Tavors seem to be the new trend.
> 
> 
> Btw where'd you get the MARCOs pics? I've seen the COBRA pics before but not the MARCOs ones.
> 
> + if possible post more!!



Hi, I'm not able to send PM to you. Pls share link. YOu can semd PM to me
Cheers and thanks in advance


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## Abingdonboy

sms said:


> Hi, I'm not able to send PM to you. Pls share link. YOu can semd PM to me
> Cheers and thanks in advance


Agreed, against the sea and grey of naval ships this camo is spot on. MARCOs really know what they're doing.

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## MUHARIB

Abingdonboy said:


> Agreed, against the sea and grey of naval ships this camo is spot on. MARCOs really know what they're doing.



I think we can see IA SF also with some new major improvements very soon.

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## matador006

will soon b posting some new marcos camo pics soon


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## matador006

How many camo's will have effin defense forces of this country have, though I have to say I am happy with this. Also, this is not the same as the American one, take a closer look
bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

bulk_img_mb100001_152f7e3caf9fac485a6fbedfbdb6ee4d_image0.jpg picture by paragsawant47 - Photobucket

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## sudhir007

> Hunky / Tuffy
> With changing trends in guerilla warfare tactics used by insurgent groups it is necessary for the troops to contain a threat with multi-role armoured vehicles. For troops deployed in counter-insurgency and security operations in the Northern and North-Eastern commands, bullet and splinter-proof vehicles have become the need of the day. Keeping this in view, for the first time Corps of EME of the Indian Army has developed two bullet-proof vehicles that are also equipped with latest communication system, night vision devices and wide range of fire power.
> 
> Both Hunky and Tuffy are ergonomically designed air-conditioned vehicles to accommodate six and four-member crew respectively. While Hunky, the medium bullet-proof vehicle, has a protection against small arms, splinters and IEDs, Tuffy, the lighter version, has a Swedish bullet-proof shield against fire from a distance of 10 metres. Both of the vehicles have splinter-proof glasses in the windows and windscreens and have sliding firing ports for firing of personal weapons. A variety of weapons ranging from LMGs, MMGs and missiles can be fitted on a mount which has a 360 degree traverse on both the vehicles. Hunky, developed by 505 Army Base Workshop, Delhi Cantonment, can store provisions in sliding racks that operate with feather touch. The concept can surely give an added edge to the troops in tough terrain as versatility and comfort has been a key area of emphasis in developing these vehicles.


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## angeldemon_007

@ matador006 
Have indian navy started to form the marine brigade ?


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## matador006

angeldemon_007 said:


> @ matador006
> Have indian navy started to form the marine brigade ?


yes yes very much one of my source a correspondent from frontier india is very much bullish on india having its own marine force albiet under the command of navy only with maros as its premier force more is comming navys way with newer lhd/lpd like juan carlos class (built in my native espanyol) and galicia class lpd very much on indian navys radar also inside news watch out for indian army trying to procure world class modular bullet proof jackets and balistic helmets army is in talks with Teijin Twaron and Pinnacle Armor for design and manufacturing of india specific "Modular Tactical Vest" along the lines of United States Army's Improved Outer Tactical Vest though lighter much much much lighter

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## Dalai Lama

New Marine Commando Camo looks badass! Very much like the LCH Camo.


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## Abingdonboy

matador006 said:


> yes yes very much one of my source a correspondent from frontier india is very much bullish on india having its own marine force albiet under the command of navy only with maros as its premier force more is comming navys way with newer lhd/lpd like juan carlos class (built in my native espanyol) and galicia class lpd very much on indian navys radar also inside news watch out for indian army trying to procure world class modular bullet proof jackets and balistic helmets army is in talks with Teijin Twaron and Pinnacle Armor for design and manufacturing of india specific "Modular Tactical Vest" along the lines of United States Army's Improved Outer Tactical Vest though lighter much much much lighter



Hey, is it possible for you to post the pics as I can't view the links. And is it true that at A&N a huge amphibious school is being set up? 

And in regards to large number of camos, yes but the armed forces/CAPFs are in transition mode and will soon homogenise themselves. IA has their own camo, IAF uses IA camo, IN has their own (various) camos and CAPFs have their own (individual) camos. They also have different camos for different environments and missions.

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## Dalai Lama

Abingdonboy said:


> Hey, is it possible for you to post the pics as I can't view the links [...]

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## angeldemon_007

Webmaster please delete this post...you did right by banning this a$$hole...


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## Water Car Engineer

Seems like he has dual scope on his tavor..

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## Abingdonboy

AWESOME pic mate!! If possible more such goodies!!


+ and yes looks like the operator has a telescopic sight attached along with the red dot sight.

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## AvidSpice

Marcos it seems is getting the digital camo..any info if the other branches are getting them too?


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## matador006

Abingdonboy said:


> Hey, is it possible for you to post the pics as I can't view the links. And is it true that at A&N a huge amphibious school is being set up?
> 
> And in regards to large number of camos, yes but the armed forces/CAPFs are in transition mode and will soon homogenise themselves. IA has their own camo, IAF uses IA camo, IN has their own (various) camos and CAPFs have their own (individual) camos. They also have different camos for different environments and missions.



don't have a clue with regards to amphibious warfare school in A&N but sure as hell its gonna be the home base for indian navy's Expeditionary Force the new camos whose pictures i hav posted is gonna be the standard camo for the navy's new Expeditionary Force/marines the plans to induct new lpd/lhds is a parts of raising indias marine force only albeit a smaller one in terms of numbers as compared to us marines but no less deadly
I will soon be posting new pics of marcos's new world class combat vest based along the lines of usa's iotv except lighter much much lighter due to the use of the modular ceramic plate which is backed with a shield made of Spectra, a material up to 40% stronger than Kevlar to trap any fragments of either plate or projectile and prevent them from injuring the wearer its also very light extremely light will soon post this pics soon also army has no plans to get new digital camos though it has a jv with flectarn to develop combat gears to be absorbed in F-INSAS programme which is more and more likely looking as being another failure interms of keeping with the current time schedule

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## boris

matador006 said:


> don't have a clue with regards to amphibious warfare school in A&N but sure as hell its gonna be the home base for indian navy's Expeditionary Force the new camos whose pictures i hav posted is gonna be the standard camo for the navy's new Expeditionary Force/marines the plans to induct new lpd/lhds is a parts of raising indias marine force only albeit a smaller one in terms of numbers as compared to us marines but no less deadly
> I will soon be posting new pics of marcos's new world class combat vest based along the lines of usa's iotv except lighter much much lighter due to the use of the modular ceramic plate which is backed with a shield made of Spectra, a material up to 40% stronger than Kevlar to trap any fragments of either plate or projectile and prevent them from injuring the wearer its also very light extremely light will soon post this pics soon also army has no plans to get new digital camos though it has a jv with flectarn to develop combat gears to be absorbed in F-INSAS programme which is more and more likely looking as being another failure interms of keeping with the current time schedule



+1 with regard to the F-INSAS programme.

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## matador006

crpf (cobra units) marching in new camos a closer look and also adding some new pictures
















more comming soon with new camos and newer nvgs for crpf cobra units


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Pics are not visible. Kindly post them again or post the link to the page.


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## angeldemon_007

@ matador006

Are you telling me that the pic posted below is of CRPF Cobra Commandos ?

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## Bhairava

^ No way in fckung hell !


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
I mean i feel pity for our Marcos and NSG as most the commondos in these forces are still wearing those scooter helmets. 
I mean just looking at them, it appears that CRPF Cobra are the best equipped commando force in the country.

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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> I mean i feel pity for our Marcos and NSG as most the commondos in these forces are still wearing those scooter helmets.
> I mean just looking at them, it appears that CRPF Cobra are the best equipped commando force in the country.



Unfortunately I am almost certain this is not a pic of COBRAs (I think they are Chilean SF). And I have never seen pics of IN MARCOs in "tin" helmets and as we have recently seen they are getting much better and will only get better in the future.

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
believe what you want but its the truth...as far as the pic is concerned i think we all should ask our friend @ matador006...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Whats the equivalent of SSN in india services?


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> believe what you want but its the truth...as far as the pic is concerned i think we all should ask our friend @ matador006...



Could you pls provde one pic of MARCOs in "tin" helmet? They are by far the best equipped Indian SOF.

---------- Post added at 11:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Whats the equivalent of SSN in india services?


Indian Navy Marine Commandos- MARCOs (search back a few posts to see some pics).

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Thts not indian sf.

Marcos:






Also i believe tht PAK SFs are better equiped then their indian counterparts.


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## angeldemon_007

> Thts not indian sf.


Well its not clear yet but nobody here said that the pic belongs to SF, we said it belonged to a commando force of CRPF.



> Also i believe tht PAK SFs are better equiped then their indian counterparts.


I don't know about PAK SF but the pic you posted was 7-8 years old. This is a year old pic of marcos...








> *They are by far the best equipped Indian SOF.*


Paras r the best equipped SF in India.



> Could you pls provde one pic of MARCOs in "tin" helmet?


Well sorry those are NSG helmets. Marcos as you can see in the above pics are still wearing those 1970s helmet (not all of them, some new ballistic helmet have come just like few tavor).


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## Water Car Engineer

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Thts not indian sf.
> 
> Marcos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also i believe tht PAK SFs are better equiped then their indian counterparts.




Very old image.

You haven't been keeping up with recent images.



>




Marcos and other SF are clearly upgrading..

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## Water Car Engineer

angeldemon_007 said:


> @ matador006
> 
> Are you telling me that the pic posted below is of CRPF Cobra Commandos ?




This is Colombian...



>




Nice looking camo.

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## Abingdonboy

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Marcos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also i believe tht PAK SFs are better equiped then their indian counterparts.


 Can't really comment on Pakistani SF TBH but Indian SOFs are (these days) VERY well equipped and are modernising rapidly. 

And the above pic is not of IN MARCOs but an old pic of an IN VBSS team who now are better equipped also. 


angeldemon_007 said:


> Paras r the best equipped SF in India.
> 
> 
> Well sorry those are NSG helmets. Marcos as you can see in the above pics are still wearing those 1970s helmet (not all of them, some new ballistic helmet have come just like few tavor).



I don't know if PARA SF are the best, the MARCOs training is VERY extensive and by their nature MARCOs are the best of the best. It is VERY hard to compare SFs but we can agree both are exceptional and are finally getting gear to match their capabilities. 


MARCOs always seem to look well equipped especially these days,

MARCOs:

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## angeldemon_007

> I don't know if PARA SF are the best, the MARCOs training is VERY extensive and by their nature MARCOs are the best of the best.


Well Paras are different and Marcos are different. I must say Marcos job profile can be very challenging and supporting this is their training which is more or less similar to US SEAL. SAme is the case with Paras but yeah their job profile can a little bit easier than that of Marcos but Paras have great experience which is on their side. Not to mention they won the title of best SF in the world during the competition in South Africa i think in 2007-08.


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## Abingdonboy

PARA SF aren't in too bad shape either:

PARA SF:





http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6310/gfsdgdfgdf.jpg[/IMG]






















http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9678/capture1iwi.jpg[/IMG]

















Let's just be happy Indian SOF are of such calibre regardless of what force they belong to.

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## Abingdonboy

One shouldn't forget IAF GUARUDs, they have decent gear and extraordinarily rigourous and thorough training 

GUARUDs:

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## angeldemon_007

> One shouldn't forget IAF GUARUDs, they have decent gear and extraordinarily rigourous and thorough training


They have the longest training period among all the special forces....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hey guys whats the drop out rate of marcos?

---------- Post added at 06:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 AM ----------




Abingdonboy said:


> Let's just be happy Indian SOF are of such calibre regardless of what force they belong to.



Whats the name of this rifle?


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Not much is known about Marcos, they are a bit secretive. We have one more special force named special frontier force, it works with intelligence agencies, other than an old article about them nothing is known about their existence.

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## Abingdonboy

IA SF during HR drill:

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## Abingdonboy

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Hey guys whats the drop out rate of marcos?
> I believe it stands at ~85-90% drop out rate but very little is truly known.
> ---------- Post added at 06:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the name of this rifle?


 Thats the GALIL sniper rifle from IWI, ISRAEL. 


angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Not much is known about Marcos, they are a bit secretive. We have one more special force named special frontier force, it works with intelligence agencies, other than an old article about them nothing is known about their existence.



I wouldn't call SFF a SF more of a covert action unit doing for RAW/IB what SAD does for CIA.

But, yes VERY little is known of them except for rumours and here-say. The GoI doesn't even acknowledge their existence.

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## Bhairava

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Not much is known about Marcos, they are a bit secretive. We have one more special force named special frontier force, it works with intelligence agencies, other than an old article about them nothing is known about their existence.



One more thing they are entirely composed of ethnic Tibetans - Tibetan refugees, Ladakhis & Sikkimese.


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## Bhairava

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Hey guys whats the drop out rate of marcos?



Classified info.

Even how many MARCOS are there totally is classified.

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## angeldemon_007

> One more thing they are entirely composed of ethnic Tibetans - Tibetan refugees, Ladakhis & Sikkimese.


Yeah most of them are of North Eastern origin but its just like Gorkha Rifles, not all of the soldiers are of NE origin.


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## Bhairava

angeldemon_007 said:


> Yeah most of them are of North Eastern origin but its just like Gorkha Rifles, not all of the soldiers are of NE origin.



Actually what I heard is not even alll NE Indians can get into that.

Only those of Tibetan origin - Tibetan refugees, Ladakhis,Sikkimese & Arunachalis.People who can carry themselves as Tibetans behind enemy lines.

But I don't have any link but heard from a friend of a friend in North Block.


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Yeah most of them are tibetans but that information is from 1980s. Alot has changed since then specially they have maintained their secrecy.


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## lepziboy

Is it true that the SFF were given an operation against china to put radars on mountains?


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## lepziboy

how about this one?


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## boris

Some corrections here:

1)Strength of MARCOS is classified but rejection rates aren't as they differ year after year.They can range from 80% to sometimes above 90%.The other BS that not even family members like wives know that their husband is a MARCO is laughable now,this happened in the 90's when the force was just created now it isnt do,I have seen pics of kids of MARCOS officers running the MARCOS obstacle course in vizag and firing MP-5's.It is Navy media policy that MARCOS are to keep their identities secret.

2)SFF is the special operations unit of the R&AW it was till mid-80's that it comprised entirely of tibetians,since the focus is more on counter-terrorism than China SFF are comprised of people all over India,you have to be with the R&AW and pass the training at Chakrata.

3)Probably the most secretive group is the Special Group comprised of the best of SFF,Para(SF) and some MARCOS,it is probably India's Delta Force and its military designation is 22 Special Forces.This unit comes totally under R&AW and the cabinet secretariat.This was the first unit in India to use Tavors since their amazing relationship with R&AW they can get their hands on the best equipment they can.Major Udai Singh of 1 Para(SF) was a part of the Special Group.below is a letter from the C/O of Special Group to Maj. Udai Singh's parents:
http://majorudaisingh.com/letters/thapa.jpg

4)Garuds may have longest training period but that doesnt translate to supreme excellence ,In all army SF units around the world after selection/probation/assesment continuation training takes place for about a year and then courses like signals,close protection,combat diver,recon,sniper courses take place for the army SF folks periodically.With Navy SF it is mostly 2 yearS.Garuds have a totally different function that is to protect IAF installations and lase targets.Behind enemy lines,counter terrorism work is still left to the Para(SF) and MARCOS.

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## angeldemon_007

> Garuds may have longest training period but that doesnt translate to supreme excellence ,In all army SF units around the world after selection/probation/assesment continuation training takes place for about a year and then courses like signals,close protection,combat diver,recon,sniper courses take place for the army SF folks periodically.With Navy SF it is mostly 2 yearS.Garuds have a totally different function that is to protect IAF installations and lase targets.Behind enemy lines,counter terrorism work is still left to the Para(SF) and MARCOS.


Yeah we all know this but if we talk about numbers then in our country the duration of training for Garuds is the longest. Now that means nothing other than their training period.

Yeah 22 Special Forces is also there and yeah they r the most secretive one. Don't know whether they were the first one to use tavor. *HOw do you know this ?*

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## boris

angeldemon_007 said:


> Yeah we all know this but if we talk about numbers then in our country the duration of training for Garuds is the longest. Now that means nothing other than their training period.
> 
> Yeah 22 Special Forces is also there and yeah they r the most secretive one. Don't know whether they were the first one to use tavor. *HOw do you know this ?*



It is a well known fact among all Indian SF fanboys,elsewhere you'll find that SFF were first but actually it is SG because SG is a derivative of the SFF.

on the other hand the Garuds though are real tough blokes in rocky and mayur meet the garuds you can see them running so easily with 20kg bergens you need amazing endurance and strong legs for that.

The Para(SF) personnel have good views on the Garuds but dont ask anyone in the army not in the SF(5,6,7 Para included) about the Garuds you'll get one answer "the Garuds are still kids",let alone that do not ask even about the Para(SF) to them cause again they say "we can do 90% of the things SF can".


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## Adnan Faruqi

I have posted these pics from CRPF's official website Otherwise I couldn't have believe this.













The CRPF Cobra commandos were the most ill equipped once till few year back, cidambaram have done good job by pumping money into the hardware, training etc.

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## janon

angeldemon_007 said:


> Yeah we all know this but if we talk about numbers then in our country the duration of training for Garuds is the longest. Now that means nothing other than their training period.
> 
> Yeah 22 Special Forces is also there and yeah they r the most secretive one. Don't know whether they were the first one to use tavor. *HOw do you know this ?*



One of the reasons Garuds have a longer training period is because the recruits are air force personel or even civilians, with no prior military training. So even basic military trainning has to be imparted. Only after this are they then trained by and with other special forces. On the other hand, recruits to paras, marcos, nsg etc already have an entire military education and two years of operational experience in one of the services.


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## boris

janon said:


> One of the reasons Garuds have a longer training period is because the recruits are air force personel or even civilians, with no prior military training. So even basic military trainning has to be imparted. Only after this are they then trained by and with other special forces. On the other hand, recruits to paras, marcos, nsg etc already have an entire military education and two years of operational experience in one of the services.



only NSG requires 3 years experience you can volunteer for the MARCOS and PARA(SF) when selecting your arms during training in the academy.Earlier till 1995 you needed prior service after commission now direct recruitment right after training is allowed.


----------



## Tshering22

Adnan Faruqi said:


> I have posted these pics from CRPF's official website Otherwise I couldn't have believe this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The CRPF Cobra commandos were the most ill equipped once till few year back, cidambaram have done good job by pumping money into the hardware, training etc.



Well the main frontline troops are still terrible. Chidambaram has done jack. It was the 26/11 that pressed the government to do something or suffer dire consequences.

Hold onto your horses, bhai. This is only a uniform that we are seeing. Let's see the weapons and protective gear first before judging.

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## janon

Tshering22 said:


> Well the main frontline troops are still terrible. Chidambaram has done jack. *It was the 26/11 that pressed the government to do something or suffer dire consequences.*
> Hold onto your horses, bhai. This is only a uniform that we are seeing. Let's see the weapons and protective gear first before judging.



It was only after 26/11 that Chidambaram was put in charge of the home ministry. That was one of the most important changes they made, to replace Shivraj Patil with Chidambaram. The fight against maoists has been much more effective since then.


----------



## Abingdonboy

boris said:


> Some corrections here:
> 
> 1)Strength of MARCOS is classified but rejection rates aren't as they differ year after year.They can range from 80% to sometimes above 90%.The other BS that not even family members like wives know that their husband is a MARCO is laughable now,this happened in the 90's when the force was just created now it isnt do,I have seen pics of kids of MARCOS officers running the MARCOS obstacle course in vizag and firing MP-5's.It is Navy media policy that MARCOS are to keep their identities secret.
> 
> 2)SFF is the special operations unit of the R&AW it was till mid-80's that it comprised entirely of tibetians,since the focus is more on counter-terrorism than China SFF are comprised of people all over India,you have to be with the R&AW and pass the training at Chakrata.
> 
> 3)Probably the most secretive group is the Special Group comprised of the best of SFF,Para(SF) and some MARCOS,it is probably India's Delta Force and its military designation is 22 Special Forces.This unit comes totally under R&AW and the cabinet secretariat.This was the first unit in India to use Tavors since their amazing relationship with R&AW they can get their hands on the best equipment they can.Major Udai Singh of 1 Para(SF) was a part of the Special Group.below is a letter from the C/O of Special Group to Maj. Udai Singh's parents:
> http://majorudaisingh.com/letters/thapa.jpg
> 
> 4)Garuds may have longest training period but that doesnt translate to supreme excellence ,In all army SF units around the world after selection/probation/assesment continuation training takes place for about a year and then courses like signals,close protection,combat diver,recon,sniper courses take place for the army SF folks periodically.With Navy SF it is mostly 2 yearS.Garuds have a totally different function that is to protect IAF installations and lase targets.Behind enemy lines,counter terrorism work is still left to the Para(SF) and MARCOS.



Can you give further info on SG? as I thought I had an idea on what they were and did but apparently not. I was under the assumption that SG or 22 SF was a JTF comprising men from IA/IAF/IN SF who acted in solely J&K against Pakisatani-backed terrorists in the valley. I have never heard of SG being under RAW, this makes no sense as RAW already has control of SFF for direct action and RAW is tasked with intelligence gathering not CT ops like SG.

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## boris

Abingdonboy said:


> Can you give further info on SG? as I thought I had an idea on what they were and did but apparently not. I was under the assumption that SG or 22 SF was a JTF comprising men from IA/IAF/IN SF who acted in solely J&K against Pakisatani-backed terrorists in the valley. I have never heard of SG being under RAW, this makes no sense as RAW already has control of SFF for direct action and RAW is tasked with intelligence gathering not CT ops like SG.



I will dwell into some parts of the history of the SFF,we all know SFF was formed to counter China in the future if we had a shooting contest with them.In the late 1970's with Indo-China tensions easing the role of the SFF now shifted to counter-terrorism,some 60 tibetians from the SFF and 500 IA SF men were sent to Sarasawa for CT training were it is believed that experts from Israel conducted the training rather than the fact that goes on that all 1000 men were sent to Israel.By 1981-82 all Tibetians were removed from the Special Group and the Unit was now comprised of Indians only.SFF has three commando battalions one that is tationed in the extreme north-west of the Siachen Glacier.The others do their job of keeping an eye on China.

Until the formation of the NSG the SG was the premier counter-terrorist force in India.

R&AW has the SFF no doubt but their Job as mentioned is specifically China based and Siachen Glacier due to their Mountain Warfare expertise.R&AW as the country's main Intel agency has the job to check terrorism in J&K and also to eliminate it,the same was done in the beginning of GWOT in A'stan by CIA's Jawbreaker team in conjunction with the Green Berets in October 2001.The Special Group is the Intelligence-SF nexus to break the back of all terrorists deep in J&K.The IG SFF is the head of the Special Group.Volunteer's from the SF units mainly the Army SF and SFF(Indian nationals only no tibetian's) volunteer for the SG.Another fact I'd like to mention is that the SFF has a limit of having not mare than 700 Gurkhas in it at any given time.

Sources:Elite Force of India and Pakistan(an early 90's book)
Bharat-Rakshak(especially Surya and Rohitvats)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS on Navy Day.

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## Stormweaver

Great pics and a a great thread!

Just wondering, is it wise to post pics with clearly identifiable faces of special operations soldiers?
Atleast the faces could be altered?


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## MUHARIB

The first two pics ..whats up with the old helmet?? Love the last pic but dont they have to cover their faces??

---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------




Stormweaver said:


> Great pics and a a great thread!
> 
> Just wondering, is it wise to post pics with clearly identifiable faces of special operations soldiers?
> Atleast the faces could be altered?



Yeah i agree but if the pics are released by GOI then its okay or else the faces should be blurred.


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## Roybot

MUHARIB said:


> The first two pics ..whats up with the old helmet?? Love the last pic but dont they have to cover their faces??



Don't think its the old helmet. 






Some more photos,

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## guest11

boris said:


> I will dwell into some parts of the history of the SFF,we all know SFF was formed to counter China in the future if we had a shooting contest with them.In the late 1970's with Indo-China tensions easing the role of the SFF now shifted to counter-terrorism,some 60 tibetians from the SFF and 500 IA SF men...............



So, what exactly is the recruitment procedure of SFF. Does it comprises entirely of army men like RR or SAG or it comprises of both army and paramilitary like NSG?


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## boris

guest11 said:


> So, what exactly is the recruitment procedure of SFF. Does it comprises entirely of army men like RR or SAG or it comprises of both army and paramilitary like NSG?


 
You have to be either a tibetian,an operative with R&AW,I have also heard that army men can join the RAS cadre and volunteer for the SFF.Though some Army men specially the regular army blokes leave no stone unturned to critcise the SFF.

The SFF is a paramilitary special operations unit.Since it comes under the cabinet secretariat and not under the Ministry of Defence it is a paramilitary unit though way more elite than any paramilitary unit in the country barring the NSG who are experts at CQB,whereas the SFF are amazing at jungle warfare,high altitude assaults and they have combat diver exercises with the MARCOS with a rivalry between both of them.


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## guest11

boris said:


> You have to be either a tibetian,an operative with R&AW,I have also heard that army men can join the RAS cadre and volunteer for the SFF.



Open sources suggest that the strength is around 10,000. That is pretty hard to fill with just tibetans or RAS cadre, there must be something which is not out in the open, maybe.


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## boris

guest11 said:


> Open sources suggest that the strength is around 10,000. That is pretty hard to fill with just tibetans or RAS cadre, there must be something which is not out in the open, maybe.



When it comes to SOF's of Intel agencies their recruitment is always a mystery

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## Abingdonboy

Stormweaver said:


> Great pics and a a great thread!
> 
> Just wondering, is it wise to post pics with clearly identifiable faces of special operations soldiers?
> Atleast the faces could be altered?



Tbh the only people close enough to be able to see their faces would be high level officials and their families and if you look at the pics it is rely hard to make out their identities. But I still would prefer their faces to be blurred, it is just more responsible on our part. 


I have heard that despite MARCOs protests, for such events for high levels the operators have to have their faces uncovered (God knows why). But if you ever see other MARCOs PR events, they always have their faces covered and name tags removed. Stupid politicians!

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Lyrical Mockery

Special Frontier Force (R&AW) | indiancrusade.com


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## janon

Lyrical Mockery said:


> Special Frontier Force (R&AW) | indiancrusade.com



Copied word to word from wikipedia.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sir LurkaLot said:


>


It seems like USN SEALs the IA SF are adverse to wearing helmets but IN MARCOs like US Army SF are much fonder of wearing Kevlars.

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## Water Car Engineer

What group does the guy in the far left belong to?


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## Abingdonboy

Sir LurkaLot said:


> What group does the guy in the far left belong to?



I'd say, given the maroon beret, the weapon and the removal of name tags- PARAs (possibly SF). Probobly deployed for protection of high-level visitors as Pres is protected by SPG and IA COS is protected by MP.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I'd say, given the maroon beret, the weapon and the removal of name tags- PARAs (possibly SF). Probobly deployed for protection of high-level visitors as Pres is protected by SPG and IA COS is protected by MP.



The Para(SF) are responsible for the security of the COAS and not the Military Police.There is a officer of the rank of Captain or Major who always monitors the security of COAS along with his PARA(SF) men(dont know the exact number).The MP along with Infantry troops are part of his convoi of vehicles which also includes a pilot vehicle,rover vehicle,QRT team etc.


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## 5ever

boris said:


> It is a well known fact among all Indian SF fanboys,elsewhere you'll find that SFF were first but actually it is SG because SG is a derivative of the SFF.
> 
> on the other hand the Garuds though are real tough blokes in rocky and mayur meet the garuds you can see them running so easily with 20kg bergens you need amazing endurance and strong legs for that.
> 
> The Para(SF) personnel have good views on the Garuds but dont ask anyone in the army not in the SF(5,6,7 Para included) about the Garuds you'll get one answer "the Garuds are still kids",let alone that do not ask even about the Para(SF) to them cause again they say "we can do 90% of the things SF can".



20kg is not a difficult pack weight to carry.

In the Australian ARMY (not S.F) a 5 hour forced march required a 25kg pack weight.


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## boris

5ever said:


> 20kg is not a difficult pack weight to carry.
> 
> In the Australian ARMY (not S.F) a 5 hour forced march required a 25kg pack weight.



I have not mentioned that he was sprinting with 20kg which is pretty hard,though i must say your army has some real tough blokes


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

> The IMI Tavor TAR-21 assault rifle is a fairly common sight now, deployed in significant numbers with the special forces, paramilitary, Rashtriya Rifles and other units. Saw these Indian Army para commandos at Exercise Sudarshan Shakti yesterday and thought I'd snap off a few. The men say they love the rifle. One of them said there had been some issues a couple years ago which had not been sorted out. They love the sight and the weight/stability of the weapon. When I asked how it compared to what they were using before, they smiled. (I had a chance to play with a Tavor in 2008. Yep, sweet.)



http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/12/photos-tavors-with-indian-para.html


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

VIJAY DIWAS IN KOLKATA

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## MUHARIB

Can someone id the new uniform?? it does nt look like a jacket and cargos it looks like a jumpsuit.


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## Thundersword

ohhhh kool gloves


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## Water Car Engineer

> For the first time in the history of the Polish Special Forces commandos took part in an exercise in the tropical jungle. On 15-28 November 2011 in the territory of India held a combined Indo-Polish special forces exercise pk. Tiger Claw first
> 
> The aim was to include exercises to improve the ability to conduct combined operations przeciwterrorystycznych in a tropical jungle. Exercise was held in Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School (CIJWS) capable of Mizoram (India). The exercise was attended by operators of the Polish Armed Forces Special Forces and soldiers of the 21st Indian special forces battalion.
> 
> In the opinion of the Polish Ambassador in New Delhi, Professor Peter K&#322;odkowskiego "The first in the history of the two countries joint military exercise proves that the relations between the Polish and India there has been a historic rapprochement that will give impetus to further military cooperation between our countries." According to the Indian "Polish Special Forces soldiers presented a high combat value, efficiently and professionally performing tasks received under extreme environmental conditions."
> 
> Both the Polish side, and India have expressed their willingness to continue existing cooperation.
> 
> Exercise is practically marked the beginning of cooperation between Polish and Indian special forces. Special Forces commandos during exercise have acquired valuable experience to enable them to include survival and conducting special operations in a tropical jungle. Moreover, during exercise were verified previously used operational procedures and the usefulness of used equipment.



Text and photos: DWS


http://www.mon.gov.pl/pl/artykul/12214

Poles using Indian tavors.

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## Abingdonboy

No Indian SF pictured. 



Great to know scope of those IA exercises with is always increasing.

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## angeldemon_007

> Can someone id the new uniform?? it does nt look like a jacket and cargos it looks like a jumpsuit.


Yes some Para units have this camouflage also. Its not new....


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## boris

man GROM came,amazing!!!


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## Abingdonboy

breeze said:


> Why is there an African commanding the tank? Are Africans allowed to join the Indian Army?


Take your racist, ignorant, nonsensical posts elsewhere- this man is a proud INDIAN, serving his country, INDIA.

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## IndoUS

breeze said:


> You are not even Indian so you can not be sure. I would appreciate it if someone would confirm if that black man is an African or an Indian. I am certain he is the former.
> 
> I am also curious about the tank. Anyone mind telling me the name?



Well I am an Indian so you can be sure about it that he is Indian and just to restate
*Take your racist, ignorant, nonsensical posts elsewhere- this man is a proud INDIAN, serving his country, INDIA*.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

breeze said:


> You are not even Indian so you can not be sure. I would appreciate it if someone would confirm if that black man is an African or an Indian. I am certain he is the former.
> 
> I am also curious about the tank. Anyone mind telling me the name?



T-90S ..the man is indian.


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## IndoCarib

breeze said:


> You are not even Indian so you can not be sure. I would appreciate it if someone would confirm if that black man is an African or an Indian. I am certain he is the former.
> 
> I am also curious about the tank. Anyone mind telling me the name?



They are Indians. Why do you ask ? If you are an African you are welcome to join. We will make special concession for you

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## boris

breeze said:


> You are not even Indian so you can not be sure. I would appreciate it if someone would confirm if that black man is an African or an Indian. I am certain he is the former.
> 
> I am also curious about the tank. Anyone mind telling me the name?



for the record Abingdonboy is an Indian origin British Citizen born and brought up in the UK,because of his roots and origin he has all the right to give that sort of an answer.

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## angeldemon_007

> Why is there an African commanding the tank? Are Africans allowed to join the Indian Army?


He is an Indian. No Africans are not allowed in Indian army only indian citizens and some Nepalese if interested (Gorkhas). 
Look no disrespect but buddy it appears you have a low iq. Just because a person has dark skin doesn't make him Africans. Dark skin people are common in Indian subcontinent, South America and as you know Africa.


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## Roybot

Mate can you stop posting random photos in this thread 

Its off topic. Appreciate you enthusiasm though


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## breeze

Roybot said:


> Mate can you stop posting random photos in this thread
> 
> Its off topic. Appreciate you enthusiasm though


 
They are pictures of the Indian armed forces, which is completely relevant to this thread. As I've already contributed quite a few pictures I will take a break.


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## Frank Martin

Lol, what is Mohan Lal doing in this thread?


----------



## Roybot

breeze said:


> They are pictures of the Indian armed forces, which is completely relevant to this thread. As I've already contributed quite a few pictures I will take a break.



You should post them in the multimedia section. This thread is about special forces.


----------



## harpoon

Frank Martin said:


> Lol, what is Mohan Lal doing in this thread?



Bcs he is Lt. Col in Indian Territorial Army...don't know whether breeze knows this fact.






Lt.Col _Bharath_ Mohanlal with Indian Army chief and Defense Minister


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## angeldemon_007

@ breeze
Hey guys try to stick to just special forces...for pictures of indian armed forces we have another thread...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/4905-indian-military-picture-thread-210.html


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## harpoon

breeze said:


> Defenders of India



Mr. Breeze, these soldiers are not from India but from your favorite continent Africa. Atleast have the IQ/common sense to check the shoulder patches of these soldiers. Does the flag look Indian to you?


----------



## Capt.Popeye

breeze said:


> They are pictures of the Indian armed forces, which is completely relevant to this thread. As I've already contributed quite a few pictures I will take a break.



Thank god! 
It will give you a chance to read WTH this thread is really about- viz. *Indian Army and its Special Forces*.
And hopefully that will work both for you and us. Cos' Mohanlal may be "Special" (for somebody) but he sure ain't Special Forces!
Just as there is a difference between *Indian Armed Forces* and *Indian Army*! Get my drift?


----------



## breeze

harpoon said:


> Mr. Breeze, these soldiers are not from India but from your favorite continent Africa. Atleast have the IQ/common sense to check the shoulder patches of these soldiers. Does the flag look Indian to you?



Other than the flag, I hardly see the difference.


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## MUHARIB

breeze said:


> Other than the flag, I hardly see the difference.



So you decided to post them??? Our Gorkha soldiers looks similar to Chinese so will you post them?? I also like your enthusiasm but please post in relevant section.


----------



## harpoon

breeze said:


> Other than the flag, I hardly see the difference.



Our North Eastern soldiers look like PLA, Northern soldiers like PA, Southern like SLA, why don't you post pictures of PLA,PA & SLA...just ignore the flag.


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## Capt.Popeye

breeze said:


> Other than the flag, I hardly see the difference.



You hardly seem to able to see (or think) ANYTHING, Amigo! 
Judging from the way you've been posting here.


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## Roybot

He is false flag Pakistani guys, stop trying to reason with him


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## Water Car Engineer

*From Army day 2012*

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## KS

An old rare pic of Para SF in Kashmir.




[/IMG]

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## boris

KS said:


> An old rare pic of Para SF in Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]



Wow,this is one is very old around 1989-1990.Good find


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## Abingdonboy

^^^ whoa, vintage PARA. They've come a long way. + PARAs now wouldn't dream of wearing berets during combat ops.

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## KS

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^^ whoa, vintage PARA. They've come a long way. + *PARAs now wouldn't dream of wearing berets during combat ops*.



True they have transformed a lot -- kick-assery being the common denominator.

BTW why wouldn't they..? any reason..though I too have noticed PARA SF not wearing the maroon beret and going for the bandana instead in Kashmir.


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

KS said:


> True they have transformed a lot -- kick-assery being the common denominator.
> 
> BTW why wouldn't they..? any reason..though I too have noticed PARA SF not wearing the maroon beret and going for the bandana instead in Kashmir.



Purely operational reasons, when you're in combat you wear combat dress, the beret is not part of this. Additionally I'm sure the distinctive maroon berets would make a tempting target for those who have suffered at the hands of these "Red Devils".


It would be interesting to see which unit(s) the large group of PARAs belong to. As having thought about it the large group that marched past during the parade were regular PARA and not SF, added to that I'd say the march past group was made up of a collection of PARA Bn representatives not a single unit. Reasons being during the parade the commentator introduced them as PARA rgmt not SF and not a single unit (ie 7 PARA). Also it appears that the group has TAR-21s originating from different orders/batchs as the latest TAR-21s being delivered to IA have the pictnical rails along the front of the rifle. And we can see in this pic there a both the new and old models. Now given how Army procurement works, it is unlikely the same unit got different versions of the same weapon and as each PARA Bn recieved the TAR-21 (PARA/SF) they would have received them in one go and would know how many they need. Also the PARA SF in front of Arjun is wearing the relevant SF insignia that the parade group are missing. 

Just a hunch.

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## KS

As far as I can see all the jawans have the same rifle.. Maybe I missed it..can you point out which pic you are referring to ?

BTW if if you are referring to this pic,







Then the middle one looks a bit different but that is an optical illusion caused by the rifle at the back. The left one also does look different along the top of the barrel if that is what you are referring to.

Maybe this is just a marching unit picked up from the different PARA units.

BTW do you have the video for this ?

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## Abingdonboy

KS said:


> As far as I can see all the jawans have the same rifle.. Maybe I missed it..can you point out which pic you are referring to ?
> 
> BTW if if you are referring to this pic,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the middle one looks a bit different but that is an optical illusion caused by the rifle at the back. The left one also does look different along the top of the barrel if that is what you are referring to.
> 
> Maybe this is just a marching unit picked up from the different PARA units.
> 
> BTW do you have the video for this ?



Use I am aware of that, the rifle on the left is what I was talking about, along the sides towards the front of the barrel are pictanical rails- indicating a new rifle. And the marching unit beng a mix of regular PARA units is what I assumed.

Regarding a vid, check this site out:

http://indianarmy.nic.in/Site/FormT...l01KZnQ3Q==&ParentID=Ne/FqNTXOBkEjb0v7MsnxQ==

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## Abingdonboy

Video tribute to Major Mohit Sharma.Formerly of 1 PARA (SF) (not my own).






Incredible transiton throughout the vid as he was posted in J&K and given the nature of SF work in J&K, he seems to have gone undercover at some point.


Sad video indeed.


check out his remberence website (many of the pics of SOFs and his time in them have been taken down from the site but still well worth a visit):

Major Mohit Sharma | [url]www.majormohitsharma.org

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## Water Car Engineer

> A National Security Guard (NSG) commando uses an optic to keep vigil during the full dress rehearsal for the Republic Day parade in New Delhi January 23, 2012. India will celebrate its Republic Day on Thursday.











> Indian Special Forces Commandos march down Rajpath during the final full dress rehearsal for the Indian Republic Day parade in New Delhi on January 23, 2012. India will celebrate its 63rd Republic Day on January 26 with a large military parade, with Thailand's Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra being the chief guest of the event.

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## Water Car Engineer

*Sultan of Brunei checking out what the PARAs use*






*PARAs in recent parade*

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## Abingdonboy

^^^ actually the last pic of R day parade shows IAF Garuds not PARA SF. This was the IAF float. 



+ great pic, any chance of a high res?

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## Kazhugu

was he the sultan of brunei...thank god..frankly i was shocked to see such a sloppy para.


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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^^ actually the last pic of R day parade shows IAF Garuds not PARA SF. This was the IAF float.
> 
> 
> 
> + great pic, any chance of a high res?



Ya, I suck at identifying Indian SFs. That's why you're here.

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## Roybot

This high def pic is epic.


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## Water Car Engineer



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## IndoUS

Even though the patter is old, the color of the camo looks awesome.


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## Abingdonboy

^^^ #616 the last pic is of a Ghatak commando.






IAF Garud










as are they (Garud confirmed to have TAR):

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## Abingdonboy

IAF Garud:

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## Executioner

Nice thread keep posting


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## Bhim

Hey how come you can take pictures of GARUDS but not of MARCOS??


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## Abingdonboy

Bhim said:


> Hey how come you can take pictures of GARUDS but not of MARCOS??



There is no law against it. It is purely that most of these pics come from AI 2011 where Garuds were deployed to act as a ERT so givne the high footfall and number of guys with cameras there are bound to be pics whereas MARCOs get very little exposure to public and whenever they do perform demonstrations or whatever it is at a quite a distance but are on the whole very rare. Even still there are still relitvely few pics of all Indian SOFs in comparison to other nations.

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## Roybot

*SWAT team at Surujkund Fair.* IS this HAryana Police SWAT?






















Police commandos in Surajkund Mela


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## Abingdonboy

Many have probably seen this vid but I think it is fitting to archive it here:

IN MARCOs at their best!





(not related):

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## angeldemon_007



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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


>



Technically not SF, this is IN SPB on guard duty.

Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
How do you know ??? Marcos also wear the same camo sometimes.


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> How do you know ??? Marcos also wear the same camo sometimes.


 I am aware of this and with SPB and MARCOs both having identical camos and identical weapons it is now going to be heard to distinguish between the two. But my guess is based on the tactical vest that- the MARCOs tactical vest is a little different to this, the fact this guy is employed as a guard at a naval shipyard is a job not normally given to MARCOs but effectivly the sole responsibility of SPB and the fact AFAIK the MARCOs to not wear this style of combat cap but I know for a fact SPB do (a weak point I'll concede).

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## angeldemon_007

> I am aware of this and with SPB and MARCOs both having identical camos and identical weapons it is now going to be heard to distinguish between the two.


Any force can be distinguish with their insignia or Badge.



> But my guess is based on the tactical vest that- the MARCOs tactical vest is a little different to this, the fact this guy is employed as a guard at a naval shipyard is a job not normally given to MARCOs


Thats pretty vague considering the tactical vest depends on the task. I mean even Marcos can wear light tactical vest if the job doesn't require too risk.



> the fact this guy is employed as a guard at a naval shipyard is a job not normally given to MARCOs but effectivly the sole responsibility of SPB and the fact AFAIK the MARCOs to not wear this style of combat cap but I know for a fact SPB do (a weak point I'll concede).


First of all you might be right but again the point stands, you don't know why this guy is standing there as a guard. I mean he might be a Marcos and he might be part of the security detail of a VVIP. You can't tell its a shipyard even. 

Only thing that might support your point is that this soldier is not at all trying to hide his identity while Marcos are not fan of showing their face in public.


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## gubbi

angeldemon_007 said:


>





angeldemon_007 said:


> You can't tell its a shipyard even.


It is a pier and you can see a ship with its mooring lines (yellow colored - top right) moored to the bollard (another black bollard no:23?). Through the gap in the yellow truck, you can see a part of the ship's bow and the water body.

Also, the MARCOS patch which is usually seen on the right sleeve is absent on the personnel's sleeve. Also, no secondary firearm seen. Hence SPB.

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## tyagi

second episode of Indian special forces -promo - YouTube

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

tyagi said:


> second episode of Indian special forces -promo - YouTube



When will this episode be broadcasted?


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## tyagi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> When will this episode be broadcasted?



Friday 8:30 pm

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## Water Car Engineer

tyagi said:


> second episode of Indian special forces -promo - YouTube








http://www.defence.pk/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2722813

You can already see the whole video. Idk where to find link however, but someone put in this site.


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## Capt.Popeye

gubbi said:


> It is a pier and you can see a ship with its mooring lines (yellow colored - top right) moored to the bollard (another black bollard no:23?). Through the gap in the yellow truck, you can see a part of the ship's bow and the water body.
> 
> Also, the MARCOS patch which is usually seen on the right sleeve is absent on the personnel's sleeve. Also, no secondary firearm seen. Hence SPB.



That picture was snapped at the dockyard during the President's Fleet Review.


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## Abingdonboy

Sir LurkaLot said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2722813
> 
> *You can already see the whole video. Idk where to find link however, but someone put in this site.*



Are you talking about being able to watch the whole video of episode 1 or of this one (ep 2)?


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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Are you talking about being able to watch the whole video of episode 1 or of this one (ep 2)?



I must be talking about ep 1 then.


anyways


You guys remember the shape Indian Special force were not to long ago? They've been getting the gear they deserve in a short period of time.

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## Abingdonboy

^^ it's true Indian SOFs have come A LONG way in a very short period of time all 3 SOFs are looking more and more world class EVERYTIME we see them and even the notoriously under equipped NSG has now started to look incredible. It seems 26/11 did have a lingering effect on the GoI to awaken them and green light pending SOF requests and give them more cash. 


The (argubley)world's best trained SOFs are now getting some of the most equipment on earth to match.

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## Water Car Engineer




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## Abingdonboy

Not offically SF but still:

Great vid of Maharashtra's Force One being trained by the elite Israeli border guards. 

×&#8212;×&#8220;×©×&#8226;×ª 2 - ×&#8482;×&#8212;×&#8482;×&#8220;×ª ×&#8221;×&#339;×&#8226;×&#732;"×¨ ×©×&#339; ×&#382;×&#8226;×&#382;×&#8216;××&#8482;

Despite being in Hebrew it is still an awesome and insightful vid. My favourite part though is seeing the affinity and affection the Indian cops have for their Israeli trainers and the smiles that come to the Israeli's faces when talking of their Indian brothers says it all. 

Long live Israeli-Indo brotherhood.

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## Abingdonboy

Oh yeah:

?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ??...

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

^^^ nice man, what kind of image capture software are you using?

+good to see regular PARA getting decent gear.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Abingdonboy

^^ regular PARA during Indra-2010

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## Abingdonboy

Oldie but goldie:




> EVEN though life continues normally in the little slate-roofed mud house in the tiny village of Banuri, near Palampur, yet it can never be the same again for those living there.
> 
> In a dimly-lit small room, the immaculate uniform, belt and beret of an Army officer, hangs on the wall, and alongside you see the face of an earnest young, committed soldier staring at you. Along with the portrait and laminated blow-ups of the young officer, there are so many other memories which the ageing couple in the house clings to.
> 
> There is pride in the moist eyes of Subedar Rulia Ram, as he talks about his valiant son. Major Sudhir Kumar, on whom the highest peace time gallantary award, Ashoka Chakra, has been posthumously conferred, brought honour not only to his family, but to all those who loved and respected him.
> 
> It was on August 29, last year, that he died fighting insurgents in the Kupwara sector of the trouble-torn state of Jammu and Kashmir. "It was on the night of August 27 that he gave us a call to say that he would be reaching home after two days, which he did, but in a coffin," recounts his mother. "Even as a small child his only aim in life was to join the Army and achieve something great," she says. It was not merely a fascination to adorn the olive green uniform, but to tread the path very few would dare to.
> 
> Born on May 24, 1968, in Jodhpur, Major Sudhir studied uptil Class V in the government school in the village itself. It was after being selected in the Sainik School at Sujanpur Tira in Hamirpur district, that he could see his dreams coming true. After passing out from the NDA in 1987, he was commissioned on June 11, 1988. Initially, he joined the 4 Jat Regiment. But later shifted to the elite 9 Para Commandos.
> His stint in Sri Lanka &#8212; as part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) &#8212; saw him emerge as an expert in guerrilla warfare. There was no looking back after this as he was decorated with service medals one after the other. The endless list of decorations includes the Videsh Seva Medal and Special Services Medal in 1990, Siachen Glacier Medal, High Altitude Medal and Sainya Medal for Jammu and Kashmir in 1992.
> 
> He got the Sena Medal and Bar Two Medal in 1994 and Clasp Suraksha to Special Service Medal and Wound Medal in 1996.
> 
> Major Sudhir was selected for the International Officers Advance Course in the USA. In that he qualified as an instructor with honours, after having done the course in protective services of VIP security and combat terrorism on military installations.
> 
> Having added another feather to his cap, he was posted as the ADC to Army Chief,Gen V.P. Malik, from December 1997 to June 1999. His desire to be in the thick of warfare saw him becoming part of Operation Vijay, in Kargil. After it was over, Major Sudhir went back to counter-insurgency operations, his field of expertise, in Jammu and Kashmir.
> *
> He was entrusted with important tasks, which included being sent on special secret missions to Pakistan. "It was not without reason that bhai was chosen for these difficult jobs. He had a flair for languages, he had mastered Persian and Sindhi. He was also an expert in the use of explosives and could easily decode the wireless messages of the militants," disclosed Arun, younger brother of Major Sudhir.
> *
> The 31-year-old officer was killed in the dense forests of Haphruda in Kupwara, but only after gunning down a few militants. As he led a squad of five men in the area, he heard disembodied voices, but was unable to spot them. He along with his buddy crawled uphill and on reaching the knoll saw two armed militants, barely four metres away. He immediately killed the nearest sentry and charged towards the second, who jumped back into a large covered hideout in a depression, 15 metres below.
> 
> Without any hesitation, Major Sudhir charged at the hideout with only his buddy giving him covering fire.Taken aback, the militants, 20 in number, rushed out in an attempt to flee. Major Sudhir singlehandedly grappled with them and firing from a distance of two metres, killed four militants. In this action, he was hit on the face, chest and arm and fell down, bleeding profusely at the entrance of the hideout.
> 
> Although, unable to move, he called up his troop commanders on the radio set, not to allow the militants to flee. It was only after 35 minutes, when fire stopped that he allowed his evacuation. Bleeding profusely, he continued to pass instructions to his troops on his radio set. He passed away holding his set, in the hand.
> 
> While no amount of help can compensate for the loss of Subedar Rulia Ram&#8217;s son, the state government has not bothered to consider the bereaved father&#8217;s request for a job for his other son and daughter. "Since there is not even a single earning member from my family," rues Sub Rulia Ram, "I had personally requested the Chief Minister, P.K. Dhumal, to give a government job to my son or daughter, when he had come to our house, immediately after Sudhir&#8217;s death."
> 
> Major Sudhir&#8217;s younger brother, Arun (28), had met with a serious car accident in 1992 and is unemployed. His younger sister, Asha, a student of BA-II, in Government College, Palampur, too, is willing to do a job, provided there is some help from the government.
> 
> Even five months after Major Sudhir sacrificed his life for the nation, not a single person from the state government has payed his family a visit, let alone offer help.
> 
> It is a matter of great regret that the martyr who is being revered by the entire nation, is a forgotten man in his home state.














http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000304/windows/main6.htm

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^ regular PARA during Indra-2010



I know..but felt like sharing it here as the title is Indian Army and its Special force so thought Airborne troops also need some representation here. 



http://www.********.com/view?i=a5a_1288662538

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## Abingdonboy

?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ??...

IA PARAs (am unsure if they are SF or not)

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## Abingdonboy

3rd ep in the PARA series:

?????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??????

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> 3rd ep in the PARA series:
> 
> ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??????



Liked the comment by the commanding officer.."SF unit has a unwritten tradition or code..high performance low visibility.We dont publicise about our operations"

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Liked the comment by the commanding officer.."SF unit has a unwritten tradition or code..high performance low visibility.We dont publicise about our operations"



Yeah, thought it summed up Indian SOFs as a whole.

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## Abingdonboy

I fouund the weapons particularly interesting: 

Micro UZI with Mepro Mor Sights.
M-4 with Mepro Mor Sights and (strangely) AN/PEQ-2 Infra-red illuminator.
Of course Tar-21


And the man in the unit equipped with the 40mm grenade launcher used a Micro-Uzi as a secondary weapon.



Their room clearance stuff was pretty cool also.

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## MUHARIB

Operation Desert Lark.

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## angeldemon_007

@ COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

You were right about SF involvement...


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## Abingdonboy

it seems the guys on the ground with TAR-21s were regular PARAs with the guys with TAR-21s slithering in are SF.

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## Water Car Engineer

full

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-india-documentary/video-story/227895?hphin

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> @ COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> You were right about SF involvement...



Yup..provided a link few days ago in the other thread.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> it seems the guys on the ground with TAR-21s were regular PARAs with the guys with TAR-21s slithering in are SF.



Yup..like the Captain mentioned that when the SF help was called in then we came.So your point seems true.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Thanks a bunch Sir LurkaLot, brilliant work once again!!

+what image capture software do you use?

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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Thanks a bunch Sir LurkaLot, brilliant work once again!!
> 
> +what image capture software do you use?



Just using PS.

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## Abingdonboy

Sir LurkaLot said:


> Just using PS.



Paint Shop? So do you take a screen-shot and then crop it?


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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Paint Shop? So do you take a screen-shot and then crop it?



PhotoShop and yes.

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## Water Car Engineer

More for you dude.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

(strange to see the M4 has both Mepro Mor Sights and AN/PEQ-2 Infra-red illuminator as the Mepro has both I/R and visible laser built in.)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hi guys,this video i am posting is of a martial art form which PARA SFs are taught.So thought of sharing it with you guys.


Pekiti Tirsia Kali India Tactical Commando Combat - YouTube

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## angeldemon_007

Its a very nice video....some really smart and smooth moves...


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## angeldemon_007

I don't know whether it was posted before or not...


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## Killswitch

Nice to see the camel packs being used for hydration. Should be a standard piece of kit. Much easier to use than a cantine, and is not as noisy.


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## Water Car Engineer

_ search and seizure team aboard the Indian navy frigate Satpura
_












_search and seizure team from the Indian navy guided-missile destroyer INS Ranvijay
_

*VBSS at Malabar exercise 2012*

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
They are not SF....


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## Water Car Engineer

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> They are not SF....



There is no harm putting them here when we have SPG in the first post of the thread.


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## Abingdonboy

Like what I see irt IN VBSS decent gear and good tactics. IN sure is doing one hell of a job modernising all of its forces- MARCOs jve awesome gear these days and now it seems the VBSS guys are also getting such gear- impressed!

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## jai231179

amarnath said:


>



These guys are MARCOS right!?? Keep those pics coming boys!

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## Abingdonboy

jai231179 said:


> These guys are MARCOS right!?? Keep those pics coming boys!



1st pic- Regular soldiers deployed to Siachin Glacier
2nd pic- RR soldiers
3rd/4th pic- MARCOs
5th pic- hard to say could just be regular IA/Ghatak
6th- if I remover correctly this is NSG from way back in 2007/8 training drill.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> 1st pic- Regular soldiers deployed to Siachin Glacier
> 2nd pic- RR soldiers
> 3rd/4th pic- MARCOs
> 5th pic- hard to say could just be regular IA/Ghatak
> 6th- if I remover correctly this is NSG from way back in 2007/8 training drill.



5th pic is of a Para guy and 6th is from Bangalore..dont know who they are but unlikely to be Special forces can be Para though coz there is a regimental centre there.The place is in MG Road have seen it many times while passing by.


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## Abingdonboy

IA PARA SF- awesome!







> An soldier during a drill at Annandale ground in Shimla on Monday. There is controversy about possession of this ground between army and Himachal Pradesh Cricket Association (HPCA).

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
He is not special forces...thats why i didn't posted it in this thread.


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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> He is not special forces...thats why i didn't posted it in this thread.



Are you sure, he does look as if he is SF/regular PARA. Even got the new elbow/kneepads used by SPETSNEZ/Delta/SEALs.If not SFregular PARA what is he?

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Nobody uses SF in disaster preparedness..


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## Sergi

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Nobody uses SF in disaster preparedness..


 
If he isn't SF where does he belong ??? 
I would be dancing on moon if he is regular army soldier with THAT gun ( I don't know which is it but liked it) and gear. Even helmet looks different.

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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Nobody uses SF in disaster preparedness..


 But the question arises what unit does this guy belong to? Ghatak? PARA (regular)? Infantry (seems like a long shot atleast for 3-5 years)?


Sergi said:


> If he isn't SF where does he belong ???
> I would be dancing on moon if he is regular army soldier with THAT gun ( I don't know which is it but liked it) and gear. Even helmet looks different.



+1

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## angeldemon_007

> But the question arises what unit does this guy belong to? Ghatak? PARA (regular)? Infantry (seems like a long shot atleast for 3-5 years)?


Its possible he is from parachute regiment. This picture is from the exercise showing disaster preparedness of IA a few days back. Its from Himachal Pradesh. Ghatak is specifically formed for CT and CI operations (as far as i know) and Paras are SF, no country uses SF for disaster relief. So i think either he is a member of Parachute regiment or IA must have armed some other regiment like may be from Gurkha rifle with Tavor.
SF does use such kind of gears but they are CT drills and that wasn't part of what IA showed in Himachal Pradesh (thats what i know).

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## Abingdonboy

angeldemon_007 said:


> Its possible he is from parachute regiment. This picture is from the exercise showing disaster preparedness of IA a few days back. Its from Himachal Pradesh. Ghatak is specifically formed for CT and CI operations (as far as i know) and Paras are SF, no country uses SF for disaster relief. So i think either he is a member of Parachute regiment or IA must have armed some other regiment like may be from Gurkha rifle with Tavor.
> SF does use such kind of gears but they are CT drills and that wasn't part of what IA showed in Himachal Pradesh (thats what i know).



Just a few comments- PARA SF are part of the Parachute regiment with the regiment being organised into SF and Non-SF battalions ie- 1,2,3,4,7,9,10,11 and 21 BNs being SF with 5,6,7 and 12 being regular PARA. Ghatak's primary role is not solely CT/CI but to attack as "Strike elements" for infantry Btns so are regular infantry men given extreme training in CT/HRT/CT/CQB/Airborne ops etc so in NATO/US lexicon they can be described as "Special operations capable". I don't think the IA would go for only equipping certain units (say Gurkhas) with such gear and omitting the rest of the regular IA. I'd say SF/regular PARA/Ghatak are the possiblites.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Regular Para/Parachute regtt would be my guess for reasons which i have discussed in detail in other threads and the ARTRAC is based there in Shimla so nothing can be counted out.


Moreover these guards..the last time i saw an Indian soldier with them was in Ranbir Kapoors Jai Jawan show with 1 Para SF like the 21 Para SF were wearing black colour guards in another show and the recent Indo US excercise had Ghataks wearing green colour guards with INSAS..if Ghataks would have Tavors then i guess Indo-US excercise would have been the first place the Ghataks would have got it.



*Secondly guys,is that a camelbak he is wearing?*...A tube is comming from the back just above his radio set..what is that if not a camelbak?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Regular Para/Parachute regtt would be my guess for reasons which i have discussed in detail in other threads and the ARTRAC is based there in Shimla so nothing can be counted out.
> 
> 
> Moreover these guards..the last time i saw an Indian soldier with them was in Ranbir Kapoors Jai Jawan show with 1 Para SF like the 21 Para SF were wearing black colour guards in another show and the recent Indo US excercise had Ghataks wearing green colour guards with INSAS..if Ghataks would have Tavors then i guess Indo-US excercise would have been the first place the Ghataks would have got it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Secondly guys,is that a camelbak he is wearing?*...A tube is comming from the back just above his radio set..what is that if not a camelbak?




Pretty much summed up my thoughts.Regarding the guards, yes I remember them from the Jai Jawan ep with 21 PARA (SF), I believe these are the very same guards used by Spetsnez, Delta and Seals.


+I noticed what looks like a camelback too just wasn't 100% but, like you said, what else could it be?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Pretty much summed up my thoughts.Regarding the guards, yes I remember them from the Jai Jawan ep with 21 PARA (SF), I believe these are the very same guards used by Spetsnez, Delta and Seals.
> 
> 
> +I noticed what looks like a camelback too just wasn't 100% but, like you said, what else could it be?



I would be very happy if i get to see camelbaks in large numbers..atleast the special operation guys can get them.I hate the stupid bottles the jawans have to carry.It keeps bouncing after hitting your body and is very uncomfortable to carry.


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## angeldemon_007

> if Ghataks would have Tavors then i guess Indo-US excercise would have been the first place the Ghataks would have got it.


You don't remember the last Indo-Russia joint exercise something like Indra--- something....in that also you can see Ghataks with tavor.


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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Abingdonboy

NSG contd.

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## Abingdonboy

NSG contd. contd.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> You don't remember the last Indo-Russia joint exercise something like Indra--- something....in that also you can see Ghataks with tavor.



Man,i have already said in the Indo-US excercise thread thread that Ghataks dont have Tavors till now but will surely have them in fututre and has been proved in the pics.In the Indra excercise those guys are not NAGA regt Ghataks with Tavors for the simple reason that they dont look like NAGA guys.Naga regtt only has NAGA guys whereas the TAvor guys look to be from all over India from their facial features.

Kindly dont confuse things for normal people here.Even i would love to see Ghataks with Tavor.Infact i would like it to be in large numbers.But the thing is that it is not there in large numbers and as of now only Paras have it.


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## Abingdonboy

IA 21 PARA (SF):

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## Tamizhan

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> .In the Indra excercise those guys are not NAGA regt Ghataks with Tavors for the simple reason that they dont look like NAGA guys.Naga regtt only has NAGA guys whereas the TAvor guys look to be from all over India from their facial features.



Actually Naga regt comprises of 50% ethnic Nagas and the rest are from the hill tribes in Kumaon,Garwhal regions and also Gorkhas.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Tamizhan said:


> I thought the Naga and Gorkha regt both recruit from the hill tribes in Kumaon,Garwhal regions.



No Sir,there is Kumoan regtt for that.Gorkha regtt has only Gorkhas(India and Nepal) and Naga regtt is only for Naga tribes.


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## Tamizhan

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No Sir,there is Kumoan regtt for that.Gorkha regtt has only Gorkhas(India and Nepal) and Naga regtt is only for Naga tribes.



No buddy...I'm pretty sure that the Naga regiment not only comprises Nagas but also Kumaonis, Garwhalis and Gorkhas.

Infact the 1 and 2 battalion of Naga regt are affliated with the Kumaon regiment.

Naga Regiment



> Still it held the Tri-colour aloft, it should be attributed jointly to the natural instincts of the Naga warriors and to the inherent valour of Kumaunis, Garhwalis and Gorkhas, the other hill tribes to be drawn into the Naga Regiment.



From BR ,



> However, the Regiment was to comprise 50% Nagas and 50% of an equal number of Kumaoni, Garhwali and Gorkhas.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Tamizhan said:


> No buddy...I'm pretty sure that the Naga regiment not only comprises Nagas but also Kumaonis, Garwhalis and Gorkhas.
> 
> Infact the 1 and 2 battalion of Naga regt are affliated with the Kumaon regiment.
> 
> Naga Regiment
> 
> 
> 
> From BR ,



Ya right..my bad.I used to think that Naga regtt has only Nagas but i guess early on they recruited Garwhalis and Kumoanis to fill the number.Moreover the regtt centre is not also in Nagaland.I hope more Nagas join the Army so that the NAga regtt is represented properly like the Sikh Light Infantry or the Dogra regtt.

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## jamesbaldwin

I don't get a chance to log on too often but I am always impressed by what I see when I come to this thread- you guys are doing an incredible job of keeping this thread alive and up to date.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jamesbaldwin said:


> I don't get a chance to log on too often but I am always impressed by what I see when I come to this thread- you guys are doing an incredible job of keeping this thread alive and up to date.



I miss some of my friends in this thread specially "boris" and now "abingdonboy" has also got banned..hope they return soon.

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## jamesbaldwin

I was reading throu this thread and I liked this contrast, 

From back in 2011:



Sir LurkaLot said:


> Man, look all the way back to the first page, you can see SPG. Thats not IA special forces or IAF or IN. NSG is relevant then.
> 
> And I bet you I wasnt the first to post NSG pics.
> 
> 
> 
> Look this is what I *seen * so far of their special forces. *I *think it looks better then most of Indian SP. How ever in 10-20 years this will def change.




Now a few weeks ago:





Sir LurkaLot said:


> ]




Seems like it only took a year mr Sirlurkalot!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

^^^^
Ya man,a lot has changed in an year and now after the letter leaked in which the Chief was complaining about the lack of equipments for SFs i think a lot more stuff is gonna come in.

1 more year and i think the Indian Special forces will be equally or very close to the best equipped SFs in the world.In the old days the SFs had to fill the technology gap with their training but i am glad now not only do we have a well trained brave Special Force but a "hi-tech' one too.

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## jamesbaldwin

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ^^^^
> Ya man,a lot has changed in an year and now after the letter leaked in which the Chief was complaining about the lack of equipments for SFs i think a lot more stuff is gonna come in.
> 
> 1 more year and i think the Indian Special forces will be equally or very close to the best equipped SFs in the world.In the old days the SFs had to fill the technology gap with their training but i am glad now not only do we have a well trained brave Special Force but a "hi-tech' one too.



Man I can't wait!! Also looking forward to the fruits of the MARCOS future combat system RFI where they will be getting their own SOF-customised F-INSAS-like gear. I have always thought Indian SOF arguable the best trained and one of the most experienced SOFs on earth but lacked the gear to meet their high levels of proficiency but now the situation, for some reason, is changing at unbelievably quick rate. I literally cannot believe it when looking back on this thread how ar Indian SOFs have come in the span of not very long at all. I wonder if this is all because of 26/11, whatever it seems that somewhere in the MoD there is something going on because this isn't a fluke, this is targeted and deliberate- cant say I'm complaining though!!!!

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## jamesbaldwin

COLDHEARTEDAVIATOR could you share some of the stories you seems to have plenty of regarding SOFs (of any branch) on this thread, it would really and some meat to this thread. Thanks so much in advance, BIG fan of yours (you, Boris,SirLurkalot and Abingdonboy keep this thread alive and worth reading).

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## DESERT FIGHTER

jamesbaldwin said:


> I was reading throu this thread and I liked this contrast,
> 
> From back in 2011:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now a few weeks ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like it only took a year mr Sirlurkalot!!



Tht SSG pic from 2010........ Il still say tht Pak special forces are the best equiped SF in South asia aswell as central asia.


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## jamesbaldwin

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tht SSG pic from 2010........ Il still say tht Pak special forces are the best equiped SF in South asia aswell as central asia.



Go to page 30 and look onwards, I think you'll see this isn't quite correct. But it is pretty subjective I suppose especially when you through in egos and pride. But in a few years Indian SOFs will be clearly the best equipped by light years in this part of the world.


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## illusion8

*NSG*


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jamesbaldwin said:


> COLDHEARTEDAVIATOR could you share some of the stories you seems to have plenty of regarding SOFs (of any branch) on this thread, it would really and some meat to this thread. Thanks so much in advance, BIG fan of yours (you, Boris,SirLurkalot and Abingdonboy keep this thread alive and worth reading).



Thanks for liking my posts.Well i have a few stories but not all are related to Special forces.So let me post the one in which my cousin was involved.


My cousin joined the Police(Jammu and Kashmir armed Police) in 2000.In our state we have an armed police force which is equipped like an infantry.So my cousin soon opted for the Special operation Group which is like The Special force of J&K Police.

They are very well trained and are trained by the Army.Plus they know all the regional languages which makes them deadly.Theres almost no way you can know if the are a terrorist or the good guys from the way they dress.Mostly infact only undercover ops.

So once they were searching for a terrorist for days and couldnt find him.So they decided to take a break in a small village after hours of walking.He was dressed exactly like a terrorist wearing khan suit and leather shoes carrying his ak47 but a berreta as a side arm which terrorists dont carry...they usually have the chinese pistol.

So he went to a house asking for water and also trying to get info on the terrorists as he was dressed like one and this village was known for supporting terrorists.As he knockedd the door a guy came out and without saying a word askedhim to come in.

He was alone at that time and without his buddies who were sitting at another home in the same village asking for info on the terrorists movement but that didnt stop him from going in alone maybe also because he wasnt expecting anything.

As soon as he went in there came a loud voice greeeting "Asalamalaikum".He was shocked to see the same terrorist they were looking for sitting on the bed with his buddies having lunch.He replied "walaikumasalam" and there came another question asking for his health.

The chat continued and then the terrorist leader asked him to join for a meal.He also agreed and started having food with them.There is hardly he could have done also as he was sorrunded by terrorists..some having food and other just sitting and having tea..total number was 5.

So while having his meal the leader saw his berreta and thought that if he is not a Indian soldier undercover and asked "Kahin tu hindustani ***** toh nahi' pointing his pistol towards him.He smiling replied and was succesful in defending himself.

Now while having his meal he was thinking as to how he is gonna kill all these terrorists and then came another question asking for his identity but he again managed to save himself.


He reaslised that there is not much time left before they realise he is an Indian dog(  ) So he decided that he needs to escape soon and contact his buddies.He said that he is going to wash his hands outside and didnt pick up his AK so as to not make them further believe that he is an Indian soldier and fire at him from his back.

He was wearing his magazine pouch which also had grenaded and his pistol with him.As soon as he got out of the room he threw a grenade which hit the door and didnt cause the damage which he wanted it to cause.But still injuring a few of them and then he jumped for cover behind a tree while firing from his pistol and not letting thim leave the room.Soon his buddies came hearing the noises of bullets and they manged to kill all of them.

5 terrorist killed without any injury to SOG guys...he killed 2 and got a medal.

But most importantly what i liked was he got a lifetime experience and a tale worth sharing with his family and friends...not everyone gets to have lunch with terrorists  specially those who were going to die in a few minutes.

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## jamesbaldwin

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tht SSG pic from 2010........ Il still say tht Pak special forces are the best equiped SF in South asia aswell as central asia.



Okay, PARA SF:


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## jamesbaldwin

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tht SSG pic from 2010........ Il still say tht Pak special forces are the best equiped SF in South asia aswell as central asia.



NSG (not an SF per say, a special intervention force):

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## jamesbaldwin

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tht SSG pic from 2010........ Il still say tht Pak special forces are the best equiped SF in South asia aswell as central asia.




Regular PARA (not SF):
























IN MARCOS:






I think that well and truly refutes your claim.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thanks for liking my posts.Well i have a few stories but not all are related to Special forces.So let me post the one in which my cousin was involved.
> 
> 
> My cousin joined the Police(Jammu and Kashmir armed Police) in 2000.In our state we have an armed police force which is equipped like an infantry.So my cousin soon opted for the Special operation Group which is like The Special force of J&K Police.
> 
> They are very well trained and are trained by the Army.Plus they know all the regional languages which makes them deadly.Theres almost no way you can know if the are a terrorist or the good guys from the way they dress.Mostly infact only undercover ops.
> 
> So once they were searching for a terrorist for days and couldnt find him.So they decided to take a break in a small village after hours of walking.He was dressed exactly like a terrorist wearing khan suit and leather shoes carrying his ak47 but a berreta as a side arm which terrorists dont carry...they usually have the chinese pistol.
> 
> So he went to a house asking for water and also trying to get info on the terrorists as he was dressed like one and this village was known for supporting terrorists.As he knockedd the door a guy came out and without saying a word askedhim to come in.
> 
> He was alone at that time and without his buddies who were sitting at another home in the same village asking for info on the terrorists movement but that didnt stop him from going in alone maybe also because he wasnt expecting anything.
> 
> As soon as he went in there came a loud voice greeeting "Asalamalaikum".He was shocked to see the same terrorist they were looking for sitting on the bed with his buddies having lunch.He replied "walaikumasalam" and there came another question asking for his health.
> 
> The chat continued and then the terrorist leader asked him to join for a meal.He also agreed and started having food with them.There is hardly he could have done also as he was sorrunded by terrorists..some having food and other just sitting and having tea..total number was 5.
> 
> So while having his meal the leader saw his berreta and thought that if he is not a Indian soldier undercover and asked "Kahin tu hindustani ***** toh nahi' pointing his pistol towards him.He smiling replied and was succesful in defending himself.
> 
> Now while having his meal he was thinking as to how he is gonna kill all these terrorists and then came another question asking for his identity but he again managed to save himself.
> 
> 
> He reaslised that there is not much time left before they realise he is an Indian dog(  ) So he decided that he needs to escape soon and contact his buddies.He said that he is going to wash his hands outside and didnt pick up his AK so as to not make them further believe that he is an Indian soldier and fire at him from his back.
> 
> He was wearing his magazine pouch which also had grenaded and his pistol with him.As soon as he got out of the room he threw a grenade which hit the door and didnt cause the damage which he wanted it to cause.But still injuring a few of them and then he jumped for cover behind a tree while firing from his pistol and not letting thim leave the room.Soon his buddies came hearing the noises of bullets and they manged to kill all of them.
> 
> 5 terrorist killed without any injury to SOG guys...he killed 2 and got a medal.
> 
> But most importantly what i liked was he got a lifetime experience and a tale worth sharing with his family and friends...not everyone gets to have lunch with terrorists  specially those who were going to die in a few minutes.




Thanks a bunch freind, keep 'em coming (if you don't mind)!!!!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ya sure man..if you liked them i will keep them commin 

Then after a few years he left the Police and and is doing business abroad.I came to know a few years ago that SOG has been disbanded..thats a sh1tty decision man.After PARA only RR and SOG were the best.These Kashmiri politicians couldnt see that SOG seeing success and now they are talking of removing AFSPA and removing the Army from the valley.You need not be an expert to guess whom will it benifit the most.

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## Water Car Engineer

jamesbaldwin said:


> I was reading throu this thread and I liked this contrast,
> 
> From back in 2011:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now a few weeks ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like it only took a year mr Sirlurkalot!!



From the recent trend, there is no doubt Indian SF will be better equipped than Pakistani SF.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

One more story actually a experience for me which i can never forget.

I have lived all my life in Army Cantonments.So in the evening i used to play with the jawans either football,volleyball or cricket.So there was a guy who was my favourite and very fun loving guy with great sense of humour.He would always smile and i havent ever seen him serious.Suddenly one day i didnt see him in the field and came to know that he has been posted to kashmir where he will be serving in a RR batallion.

My first thought was that i would miss him a lot i the field and also thought what would a fun loving guy like him do in a RR batallion.I used to think that tuff dudes should be sent to RR and kept wondering as to if a character like him would be able to make any difference there...Incase you guys are judging me i would say i was only 13 then. 

So after a few months while playing a jawan came to me and said "bhaiya woh Rao(fake name) hein na..woh 3 millitant mar dia..medal mil raha hein usko".I was surprised so i again askedd him if he is talking about the same guy who was very fun loving..and he said yeh the same guy.

I couldnt believe what i was hearing.Then after a few years when he came back i was joyed to see him.I went to him and asked "bhaiya kamal kar dia..medal mil gaya..kaise kiya yeh sab?"

He said "bas bhaiya bhookh lagi thi aur bar bar gooliyan sir k uper se sitti baja k ja rahi thi..dimag kharab ho raha tha...tabhi meine 3 millitant ko ghar se bhagte dekha..toh meine LMG uthayi aur khali kar di magazine"

I said"wah yaar...magazine khali kahi hanste huye toh nahi ki?"

He said "nahi..per magazine khali karne k badh miliotant hans raha tha"

I said "kaise'?

He said one guy got hit in the cheek thus opening his mouth where you could see his teeth. 


But a great guy went to serve in the UN coz of this and i realised that we should never underestimate anyone..because it takes the right moment the right oppurtunity where real men show their class.

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## tjpf

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thanks for liking my posts.Well i have a few stories but not all are related to Special forces.So let me post the one in which my cousin was involved.
> 
> 
> My cousin joined the Police(Jammu and Kashmir armed Police) in 2000.In our state we have an armed police force which is equipped like an infantry.So my cousin soon opted for the Special operation Group which is like The Special force of J&K Police.
> 
> They are very well trained and are trained by the Army.Plus they know all the regional languages which makes them deadly.Theres almost no way you can know if the are a terrorist or the good guys from the way they dress.Mostly infact only undercover ops.
> 
> So once they were searching for a terrorist for days and couldnt find him.So they decided to take a break in a small village after hours of walking.He was dressed exactly like a terrorist wearing khan suit and leather shoes carrying his ak47 but a berreta as a side arm which terrorists dont carry...they usually have the chinese pistol.
> 
> So he went to a house asking for water and also trying to get info on the terrorists as he was dressed like one and this village was known for supporting terrorists.As he knockedd the door a guy came out and without saying a word askedhim to come in.
> 
> He was alone at that time and without his buddies who were sitting at another home in the same village asking for info on the terrorists movement but that didnt stop him from going in alone maybe also because he wasnt expecting anything.
> 
> As soon as he went in there came a loud voice greeeting "Asalamalaikum".He was shocked to see the same terrorist they were looking for sitting on the bed with his buddies having lunch.He replied "walaikumasalam" and there came another question asking for his health.
> 
> The chat continued and then the terrorist leader asked him to join for a meal.He also agreed and started having food with them.There is hardly he could have done also as he was sorrunded by terrorists..some having food and other just sitting and having tea..total number was 5.
> 
> So while having his meal the leader saw his berreta and thought that if he is not a Indian soldier undercover and asked "Kahin tu hindustani ***** toh nahi' pointing his pistol towards him.He smiling replied and was succesful in defending himself.
> 
> Now while having his meal he was thinking as to how he is gonna kill all these terrorists and then came another question asking for his identity but he again managed to save himself.
> 
> 
> He reaslised that there is not much time left before they realise he is an Indian dog(  ) So he decided that he needs to escape soon and contact his buddies.He said that he is going to wash his hands outside and didnt pick up his AK so as to not make them further believe that he is an Indian soldier and fire at him from his back.
> 
> He was wearing his magazine pouch which also had grenaded and his pistol with him.As soon as he got out of the room he threw a grenade which hit the door and didnt cause the damage which he wanted it to cause.But still injuring a few of them and then he jumped for cover behind a tree while firing from his pistol and not letting thim leave the room.Soon his buddies came hearing the noises of bullets and they manged to kill all of them.
> 
> 5 terrorist killed without any injury to SOG guys...he killed 2 and got a medal.
> 
> But most importantly what i liked was he got a lifetime experience and a tale worth sharing with his family and friends...not everyone gets to have lunch with terrorists  specially those who were going to die in a few minutes.



i am jealous of your cousin hug him for me please bro

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## Kinetic

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tht SSG pic from 2010........ Il still say tht Pak special forces are the best equiped SF in South asia aswell as central asia.


 
Is it delusion or just another idiotic statement!! In which way that guy with AK looks better than any of the INDIAN SF even forgetting IA para SF? NSG is better equipped than them.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

tjpf said:


> i am jealous of your cousin hug him for me please bro



Ya sure man i will tell him he has a few fans  Actually i havent met him for years or even talked to him.I really wanted to know the politics behind the disbanding of the SOG..he might know well.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

One more thing guys which i want to share.In my posts you would always see me favouring the Para commandos a lot.Its because i think they are "the best".

The sacrifices they have made for the country is unmatched by any other special force in India and around the region.They have achieved what was always very difficult.

If you ask me to pick the most deadliest region in India to operate i would say it is the Hafruda and Lolab forests and there is only 1 special force which is operating there and its the Para.

One RR jawan even told me that if you go there the chances for a contact with terrorist is 100%.He even said that we dont like going with them on operations as they get the kills and we dont get a chance to see action.He said they always and always like to lead in the operation even though sometimes they go with RR guys but still they like to do things their way.

If they are posted in a region the terrorists always try to ignore crossing from there.They are certainly the most experienced special force that india has.

Early on the Marcos was way ahead of them in equipment but now they have catched up and the Army is equipping them really well.

I wont post the stories of their sacrifices as it might attract the Troll team but hearing their stories i can say they are really very special but over burdened.I hope to see the Marcos in Lolab and hafruda forests one day.Marcos is very well trained and should be given a chance to prove themselves in the most dangerous forests in India..I am sure they are equally capable.

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## anathema

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I wont post the stories of their sacrifices as it might attract the Troll team but hearing their stories i can say they are really very special but over burdened.I hope to see the Marcos in Lolab and hafruda forests one day.Marcos is very well trained and should be given a chance to prove themselves in the most dangerous forests in India..I am sure they are equally capable.



Marcos i believe is operating in Kashmir and is part of the RR's - and serves under army deputation to gain op's experience. I believe even Garuds will go that way..

Also w.r.t deadly forests..i always thought Handwara is one of the most dangerous. 

Also i concur with your statement ..Para normally operates on their own ..and is confined to their team..Sometimes even if they are part of RR - they tend to operate as a different team...that really pisses off the RR people sometimes...But in the end...a good terrorist is a dead terrorist !

Please do post your exp with para....it will be facinating to read them...troll or not...post whatever you can if its okay to be posted in a public domain...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

anathema said:


> Marcos i believe is operating in Kashmir and is part of the RR's - and serves under army deputation to gain op's experience. I believe even Garuds will go that way..
> 
> Also w.r.t deadly forests..i always thought Handwara is one of the most dangerous.
> 
> Also i concur with your statement ..Para normally operates on their own ..and is confined to their team..Sometimes even if they are part of RR - they tend to operate as a different team...that really pisses off the RR people sometimes...But in the end...a good terrorist is a dead terrorist !
> 
> Please do post your exp with para....it will be facinating to read them...troll or not...post whatever you can if its okay to be posted in a public domain...



Sir, as far as i know the Marcos are only given the duty of taking care of Wular Lake.I have asked a lot of ex RR guys as have they gone in operations with any Navy guys to which they say we have trained with them in the Army battle school but havent been on operations with them.They say that only Para guys come with them to operations apart from local police.

Regarding Handwara they were very deadly in the late 90s,,a relative of mine has served there then(dont wanna share what relation)..Para has seen action many times over the past few years in Lolab and hafruda.Doda was also very dangerous in early 2000s.

Personally i havent ever interacted with Para SF i have interacted with regular Paras though.I will definitely share stories told to me by ex RR guys.

Actually its not a tale but its how they have lead the operations even after getting badly injured.Its how they have faced terrorists who were not terrorists but very specially trained(you know what i mean here).Its about their attitude which is never say die.Its about their morale which cannot be destroyed by anyone.Its about where they operate..they are not just limited to a particular region..it would be shocking to many as to where all they have been to.Its about the revenge they have successfuly taken recently after a incident of beheading...I hope you can get a clue and understand that i cannot share more than this

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## angeldemon_007

> If they are posted in a region the terrorists always try to ignore crossing from there.They are certainly the most experienced special force that india has.


I heard the same about Marcos...the areas in which the are posted, they are termed as Ghariyal and terrorist are genuinely afraid of them.



> Early on the Marcos was way ahead of them in equipment but now they have catched up and the Army is equipping them really well.


Don't worry....IN is purchasing full gear kits from abroad, you know like US Future Soldier or French FELIN etc. don't know which country but the change will began to be visible in a year...



> I hope to see the Marcos in Lolab and hafruda forests one day.Marcos is very well trained and should be given a chance to prove themselves in the most dangerous forests in India


As far as i heard, Marcos are posted in areas where there are water bodies like lake, river etc.



> Sir, as far as i know the Marcos are only given the duty of taking care of Wular Lake.


Yeah but that was 3-4 years back....now they have a couple more areas (i mean as far as i have heard, these people really take take secrecy in their mission and identity).

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## Tamizhan

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I wont post the stories of their sacrifices as it might attract the Troll team but hearing their stories i can say they are really very special but over burdened.



PM ???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

angeldemon_007 said:


> I heard the same about Marcos...the areas in which the are posted, they are termed as Ghariyal and terrorist are genuinely afraid of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as i heard, Marcos are posted in areas where there are water bodies like lake, river etc.
> 
> 
> Yeah but that was 3-4 years back....now they have a couple more areas (i mean as far as i have heard, these people really take take secrecy in their mission and identity).



I would love to know which areas they are posted in so that i can cross check with ex RR guys posted in that region and moreover my point was that i dont think they are posted in the most dangerous regions in the valley which i can say quite confidently as my frineds have been posted there who are ex RR guys.



> Don't worry....IN is purchasing full gear kits from abroad, you know like US Future Soldier or French FELIN etc. don't know which country but the change will began to be visible in a year...




Well good for the Marcos but the Paras would have better gear too.The Marcos may beat the Paras in gear but cannot beat them in experience 

Anyways the best thing is that the country can be proud of both the Elite Special Forces!


And forgot to add one more thing...if the US Navy seals can operate in Afghanistan then why cant Marcos operate in Kashmiri forests.Trust me they are very skilled.It wont be a problem for them.

Regarding secrecy i would say Paras are the most secret of the lot..mumbai incident spoiled the secret image of Marcos for me.

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## MUHARIB

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sir, as far as i know the Marcos are only given the duty of taking care of Wular Lake.I have asked a lot of ex RR guys as have they gone in operations with any Navy guys to which they say we have trained with them in the Army battle school but havent been on operations with them.They say that only Para guys come with them to operations apart from local police.
> 
> Regarding Handwara they were very deadly in the late 90s,,a relative of mine has served there then(dont wanna share what relation)..Para has seen action many times over the past few years in Lolab and hafruda.Doda was also very dangerous in early 2000s.
> 
> Personally i havent ever interacted with Para SF i have interacted with regular Paras though.I will definitely share stories told to me by ex RR guys.
> 
> Actually its not a tale but its how they have lead the operations even after getting badly injured.Its how they have faced terrorists who were not terrorists but very specially trained(you know what i mean here).Its about their attitude which is never say die.Its about their morale which cannot be destroyed by anyone.Its about where they operate..they are not just limited to a particular region..it would be shocking to many as to where all they have been to.Its about the revenge they have successfuly taken recently after a incident of beheading...I hope you can get a clue and understand that i cannot share more than this



Haha come on mate you cant tell that here on Pdf.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Tamizhan said:


> PM ???



I would love to but i am not a senior member.Send me your mail id and i will send you a few stories..but only if you can keep the secret 



MUHARIB said:


> Haha come on mate you cant tell that here on Pdf.



Yup you know it!

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## anathema

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sir, as far as i know the Marcos are only given the duty of taking care of Wular Lake.I have asked a lot of ex RR guys as have they gone in operations with any Navy guys to which they say we have trained with them in the Army battle school but havent been on operations with them.They say that only Para guys come with them to operations apart from local police.



That used to be the early days of Marcos - deputing them around water body..But ever since that route was closed down (lack of interest by terrorists to use that route) and lack of action prompted them to change their methods..they now undergo a 3-6 month inculcation period to learn the army ways and are posted in the army units that serve in Kashmir..That is why Para's normally dont know that they are operating with Marcos...Plus Marcos adopts the weaponry of the regiment they are deputed to..This is coming from a reliable source !



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Regarding Handwara they were very deadly in the late 90s,,a relative of mine has served there then(dont wanna share what relation)..Para has seen action many times over the past few years in Lolab and hafruda.Doda was also very dangerous in early 2000s.



Hows Doda now ? That was another dangerous place..




COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Actually its not a tale but its how they have lead the operations even after getting badly injured.Its how they have faced terrorists who were not terrorists but very specially trained(you know what i mean here).Its about their attitude which is never say die.Its about their morale which cannot be destroyed by anyone.Its about where they operate..they are not just limited to a particular region..it would be shocking to many as to where all they have been to.Its about the revenge they have successfuly taken recently *after a incident of beheading*...I hope you can get a clue and understand that i cannot share more than this



Now that has me salivating ....I know abt the incident and have talked to some people in the know..but i am not aware of this angle...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

anathema said:


> That used to be the early days of Marcos - deputing them around water body..But ever since that route was closed down (lack of interest by terrorists to use that route) and lack of action prompted them to change their methods..they now undergo a 3-6 month inculcation period to learn the army ways and are posted in the army units that serve in Kashmir..That is why Para's normally dont know that they are operating with Marcos...Plus Marcos adopts the weaponry of the regiment they are deputed to..This is coming from a reliable source !



Wow thats nice to know..can you share which unit of the RR?..is it the normal RR battalions or the Para RR battalion or the Para SF companies in Kashmir?



> Hows Doda now ? That was another dangerous place..



Doda is a lot peaceful now.It was a very dangerous place once right after Kupwara.But now the terrorists operations have been paralysed.



> Now that has me salivating ....I know abt the incident and have talked to some people in the know..but i am not aware of this angle...



I have been told this by a guy of the unit in which the incident took place.I had said in another thread just after the incident that IA is not gonna sit quiet.


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## anathema

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Wow thats nice to know..can you share which unit of the RR?..is it the normal RR battalions or the Para RR battalion or the Para SF companies in Kashmir?


No not the normal RR company but the Para battalion, earlier they were deputed to SOG , but that has been discontinued now.. ....Para SF companies keep to themselves and do not welcome outsiders ...I am not prevy to which battalion they operate under - never asked and i felt i might be pushing my luck a bit too far....



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have been told this by a guy of the unit in which the incident took place.I had said in another thread just after the incident that IA is not gonna sit quiet.



Sweet... Do tell us ..or pm us ...do something


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

anathema said:


> No not the normal RR company but the Para battalion, earlier they were deputed to SOG , but that has been discontinued now.. ....Para SF companies keep to themselves and do not welcome outsiders ...I am not prevy to which battalion they operate under - never asked and i felt i might be pushing my luck a bit too far....



Yeah man thats what i was guessing as normal RR wont be suitable for them and Para SF would obviously be unwelcoming.

I will message you regarding the incident.Cant PM as i am not a senior member.


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## jamesbaldwin

What is this incident of beheading being talked of? Care to expand, who was beheaded?


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## jamesbaldwin

Am I meant to be impressed? I'm still gonna go for Indian SOFs I'm afraid they are marginally better equipped and if you think they look good today then this is relativly recently they got such flash gear, they've also got the experince and training to back it up. Next few years we are going to see Indian SOFs completly transformed. I'll admit, there was a period when Pakistani SFs were better equipped than Indian but that time has passed and now the gap is only going to grow larger.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

jamesbaldwin said:


> Am I meant to be impressed? I'm still gonna go for Indian SOFs I'm afraid they are marginally better equipped and if you think they look good today then this is relativly recently they got such flash gear, they've also got the experince and training to back it up. Next few years we are going to see Indian SOFs completly transformed. I'll admit, there was a period when Pakistani SFs were better equipped than Indian but that time has passed and now the gap is only going to grow larger.



Dnt even know what ur talkin abt... but the pics u posted.. minus the tavour nothin is "awesome" or better about them... and they "paras" are ur best equipped forces... while me and any neutral person with God given eyes can see whose better equiped.....alsp consider the fact tht these pics are old and the soldiers arent even wearin full combat gear... also why would i want to impress some old indian guy livin in UK? unless ur a hot 20 year old girl... which u clearly arent...


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## Hulk

anathema said:


> No not the normal RR company but the Para battalion, earlier they were deputed to SOG , but that has been discontinued now.. ....Para SF companies keep to themselves and do not welcome outsiders ...I am not prevy to which battalion they operate under - never asked and i felt i might be pushing my luck a bit too far....
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet... Do tell us ..or pm us ...do something


 
Guys do not cross the line, you are not suppose to disclose deployment. Back off, do not want to report.

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## Hulk

anathema said:


> No not the normal RR company but the Para battalion, earlier they were deputed to SOG , but that has been discontinued now.. ....Para SF companies keep to themselves and do not welcome outsiders ...I am not prevy to which battalion they operate under - never asked and i felt i might be pushing my luck a bit too far....
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet... Do tell us ..or pm us ...do something


 
Guys do not cross the line, you are not suppose to disclose deployment. Back off, do not want to report.


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## sexy gun

hey.. I would like to know about the beheading incident as well.. 

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I like the way you present it

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## anathema

indianrabbit said:


> Guys do not cross the line, you are not suppose to disclose deployment. Back off, do not want to report.



Dont worry - will take care...anyways i personally dont know anything special


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## jamesbaldwin

This guy doesn't stop, look what I found back on page 35 of this thread:



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Thts not indian sf.
> 
> Marcos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also i believe tht PAK SFs are better equiped then their indian counterparts*.




His statement was well and truly debunked back there by Abingdonboy and a few other members and now he has started up again. An out and out troll. Me thinks one is looking through these pages and getting jealous.



+ don't know if these have been posted, 

IN MARCOS:

















It seems Indian SOFs are getting these new (but super expensive) desert boots like the ones seen in the two pics and worn by IA PARAS SF/non-SF in Yudh Abhays 2012


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## Hyde

*Please stick to the topic, any more off topic posts below this will be deleted immediately*

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## sexy gun

TO fellow pakistanis : stop posting pics of pak SFs. We don't give a damn.. don't derail by polluting this thread

to fellow Indians : Can u people plz stop comparing for once ? If our SFs are well equipped fine but don't bring terms like "better" etc..

Thanks


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

indianrabbit said:


> Guys do not cross the line, you are not suppose to disclose deployment. Back off, do not want to report.


 
Sir,i can understand your concern and trust me no one has crossed the line here.Discussing if the Marcos are there in regular RR or not wont disclose their location as no one till now even after knowing named the special RR battalion that is meant for Paras.I assure you no sensitve info will be shared in future also.No one will share current deployment also.Also the things being discussed are years old and i understand that this is a Pakistani forum which is keeping me from being open here.


Regarding that beheading incident..Guys you can message me or add me..Will let you know via messages or mail..I cant share it here.



Pakistani Nationalist said:


> I even see regular soldiers wearing them.... heck my father owns 3 pairs....Also learn to stand ur ground after giving a statement.




Well those shoes are different from the shoes our guys are wearing.The Para commandos shoes are not US Army boots and made of a different material and cost 10,000 INR.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Posted by *IND151* in other thread.

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## Abingdonboy

Thinking IA PARA/PARA (SF). 

+ IA really do like camoing their rifles with cloth!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

^^^
Camo doesnt suit the terrain.This one looks much better:-

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## Abingdonboy

^^ agreed, IA definetly needs to invest in a desert camo. It is preety ridiculous that despite huge AOs involving desert the IA maintains the one woodland camo for all these years. I have no idea what the IA have been thinking all this time.


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## Abingdonboy

Hey look at this, an as yet unamed LSV prototype by Mahindra:







Looks good, could be really useful for SF.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

^^Yup would loove to see it with the Paras.

The pic i posted above is because i liked the Paint they used on the INSAS...Would love to see this on Tavor.The Ghille suit also does its job pretty well as it suits the terrain.

The best camo for deserts which i liked is the one used by the PARA SFs in the recent Indo-US excercise.I think it really suits the terain.

Anyway its a matter of few years when we see a new camo comming.


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## Varunastra

vintage MARCOS pics-

















modern MARCOS pics-

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ok..i dont have any more brave incidents(out of stock  ) to share but there is an incident which my friend told me which he experienced while serving in the RR.

He was going on a operation in a jungle and in between the jungle there was a kind of bunker made so that troops can relax and prepare their food and then move on.So they reached the bunker and prepared the food.Everyone was having their food there only ie near the bunker but he decided to go to a higher spot and eat..being the Ambush commander he wanted to make sure that everythings fine and wanted to keep an eye.

He started having his dinner which was a non veg meal and he says he was enjoying the sunset and the wonderful meal they had cooked when suddenly he saw a leopard in front of him staring...obviously the fragrance would have spread.He said that he continued staring and did not move from that place.He had his AK with him but didnt want to kill the leopard unnecesarily...so he decided to suddenly shout in a loud voice and it worked.The leopard started backing off and went away.

It was nice to know that IA jawans regularly face leopards while patrolling or in ambush but keeping the preservation of wildlife in mind they never try to do any harm to them and with Gods grace even after facing such encounters the jawans manage to keep their cool and not press the trigger.Sad thing though is that Army tames the street dogs there coz they act as a warning in the night and start barking even at the slightest of noise but the Leopards are very fond of eating these dogs and sometimes these Leopards are even said to come too close to the bunkers just to hunt these dogs.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok..i dont have any more brave incidents(out of stock  ) to share but there is an incident which my friend told me which he experienced while serving in the RR.
> 
> He was going on a operation in a jungle and in between the jungle there was a kind of bunker made so that troops can relax and prepare their food and then move on.So they reached the bunker and prepared the food.Everyone was having their food there only ie near the bunker but he decided to go to a higher spot and eat..being the Ambush commander he wanted to make sure that everythings fine and wanted to keep an eye.
> 
> He started having his dinner which was a non veg meal and he says he was enjoying the sunset and the wonderful meal they had cooked when suddenly he saw a leopard in front of him staring...obviously the fragrance would have spread.He said that he continued staring and did not move from that place.He had his AK with him but didnt want to kill the leopard unnecesarily...so he decided to suddenly shout in a lod voice and it worked.The leopard started backing off and went away.
> 
> It was nice to know that IA jawans regularly face leopards while patrolling or in ambush but keeping the preservation of wildlife in mind they never try to do any harm to them and with Gods grace even after facing such encounters the jawans manage to keep their cool and not press the trigger.Sad thing though is that Army tames the street dogs there coz they act as a warning in the night and start barking even at the slightest of noise but the Leopards are very fond of eating these dogs and sometimes these Leopards are even said to come too close to the bunkers just to hunt these dogs.



Nice one pal- you should start your own thread and post these gems there. I speak for most members here and say that your stories are a real treat!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice one pal- you should start your own thread and post these gems there. I speak for most members here and say that your stories are a real treat!!



I wont have the quantity to keep a thread running


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> Highly placed military sources told The Hindu that the fighting began after two Indian soldiers were beheaded in an attack on a forward position by a jihadist unit. Indian special forces responded by targeting a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers. Intermittent clashes continued through the year, into December.





*Ahem Ahem!!*




The Hindu : News / National : Indian, Pakistani Commanders to meet in bid to end bloody LoC skirmishes

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## Abingdonboy

^^ mate you called this a while back- real nice catch back then- ahead of the curve, finger on the pulse, in the know (and many more fitting cliches!!)


Indian SOF showing- "you don't mess with us and get away with it!!"




+ I am very impressed by Indian miliater, but SOFs in particular, work ethic ie quiet professionals in the background going about their business, as one IA SF said in a recent show-
*

"SF unit has an unwritten tradition or code..high performance low visibility.We dont publicise about our operations."*



I thought this was very apt.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^ mate you called this a while back- real nice catch back then- ahead of the curve, finger on the pulse, in the know (and many more fitting cliches!!)
> 
> 
> Indian SOF showing- "you don't mess with us and get away with it!!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> + I am very impressed by Indian miliater, but SOFs in particular, work ethic ie quiet professionals in the background going about their business, as one IA SF said in a recent show-
> *
> 
> "SF unit has an unwritten tradition or code..high performance low visibility.We dont publicise about our operations."*
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this was very apt.




You know i was initially very reluctant on sharing it coz i thought many people wont believe me and call me a guy who makes out stuff...but i am glad no one reacted like that and now we have an internet link proving it too.

If you know the mentality of IA higher command you can predict how would they react to various situations....My first reaction to the beheading incident thread was that the IA is not gonna sit quite.

It was a very well planned successful operation where not even a single personnel got injured...had we not reacted we would have sent a wrong message across the border.


IA SOF are best in the region.They can get the work done anywhere in the region and sit quiet as if nothing has happened.Fame is the last thing they seek.Some of the missions they would have done would get all of us surprised.

Lastly i would like to add that there has been a lot of change post 26/11 with the induction of new equipments and weapons.The mindset of the High Command has also changed on the use of SFs but i wont say this has anything to do with 26/11.I have been hearing about the use of SF in operations post 2000 which suggests the IA truely uses them as secret weapons/force multipliers/special weapons etc. and now with more and more effort being put to make them better i would say that in future we might get to hear about special ops(of bigger magnitude) if we are lucky enough.

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## Water Car Engineer

*Indra 2010*

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## Abingdonboy

Sir LurkaLot said:


> *Indra 2010*




Guys from IA aren't SF but are regular PARA (airborne).


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You know i was initially very reluctant on sharing it coz i thought many people wont believe me and call me a guy who makes out stuff...but i am glad no one reacted like that and now we have an internet link proving it too.
> 
> If you know the mentality of IA higher command you can predict how would they react to various situations....My first reaction to the beheading incident thread was that the IA is not gonna sit quite.
> 
> It was a very well planned successful operation where not even a single personnel got injured...had we not reacted we would have sent a wrong message across the border.
> 
> 
> IA SOF are best in the region.They can get the work done anywhere in the region and sit quiet as if nothing has happened.Fame is the last thing they seek.Some of the missions they would have done would get all of us surprised.
> 
> Lastly i would like to add that there has been a lot of change post 26/11 with the induction of new equipments and weapons.The mindset of the High Command has also changed on the use of SFs but i wont say this has anything to do with 26/11.I have been hearing about the use of SF in operations post 2000 which suggests the IA truely uses them as secret weapons/force multipliers/special weapons etc. and now with more and more effort being put to make them better i would say that in future we might get to hear about special ops(of bigger magnitude) if we are lucky enough.




This is what I have been seeing/hearing. I think you are right in terms of the changing mindset in IA command and, to some extent, in the politic establishment (this is probably influenced by 26/11 and OBL raid) however most of this started before 26/11. But the equipment upgrades- especially the new-found speed of upgrades-can really be attributed to 26/11 but, tbf, the process had started prior to 26/11 but Mumbai was the catalyst that has lead to what we are seeing (and not seeing wink wink!) now.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys from IA aren't SF but are regular PARA (airborne).



Well its a very controvesial topic which i hate debating on but i would like to share a few observations here.

The non SF Para battalions are 5,6 and 7.

Now since they are small in number hence the equipmwnts and weapons will be same.

In this first video which dates back to August 2010(close to INDIRA 2010) which is of a Non-SF battalion you can see their primary weapon is not a Tavor.

Rocky and Mayur with the Parashoot regiment - YouTube



Now in this second video which dates back to early 2011 you can again see that the clips which are from Non-SF battalions atr the ones which dont have Tavor as their primary weapon.

Mission Army- Ep 10 - YouTube



Note that the Captain in both the videos is the same,...which you can take for reference.


The non-SF battalions have only got Tavor in the last year ending(not fully sure of this though)...and not before that(fully sure of this)


This is the one reason i say that the Ghataks still dont have Tavors till now.



Abingdonboy said:


> This is what I have been seeing/hearing. I think you are right in terms of the changing mindset in IA command and, to some extent, in the politic establishment (this is probably influenced by 26/11 and OBL raid) however most of this started before 26/11. But the equipment upgrades- especially the new-found speed of upgrades-can really be attributed to 26/11 but, tbf, the process had started prior to 26/11 but Mumbai was the catalyst that has lead to what we are seeing (and not seeing wink wink!) now.




Mumbai incident was a turning point specially for our Police forces.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Well its a very controvesial topic which i hate debating on but i would like to share a few observations here.
> 
> The non SF Para battalions are 5,6 and 7.
> 
> Now since they are small in number hence the equipmwnts and weapons will be same.
> 
> In this first video which dates back to August 2010(close to INDIRA 2010) which is of a Non-SF battalion you can see their primary weapon is not a Tavor.
> 
> Rocky and Mayur with the Parashoot regiment - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> Now in this second video which dates back to early 2011 you can again see that the clips which are from Non-SF battalions atr the ones which dont have Tavor as their primary weapon.
> 
> Mission Army- Ep 10 - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> Note that the Captain in both the videos is the same,...which you can take for reference.
> 
> 
> The non-SF battalions have only got Tavor in the last year ending(not fully sure of this though)...and not before that(fully sure of this)
> 
> 
> This is the one reason i say that the Ghataks still dont have Tavors till now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mumbai incident was a turning point specially for our Police forces.



Mate I think we're both pretty sick of this debate! But just would say I do think these are PARA (airborne) and not SF but take your points, also if you look in the "Mission army" YT vid you will see there are PARAs equipped with TARs but anyway.......... let's agree to disagree!


+ yeah 26/11 had a BIG impact on police forces (and NSG) now we can see almost every state/large city has/is in the process of getting a well trained and well equipped ERT/SRT/QRT unit as well as other reforms and new acquisitions by police force around the nation.

+ you can be sure PARA (airborne) have TARs- the only picture proof I can find though is 2012 IA day celebrations where the contingent of PARA (airborne) all had TARs.

AFIAK the Mission Army Ep with PARA (Airborne) guys with Vz58 went out last March/April which means that it most likely was filmed in mid/late 2010 so before 7 PARA were equipped with the TAR. My guess was all btns in PARA regmt now have at least a few TARs with additional batches equipping all eventually. Even pics of last IA day show regular PARA with TAR- i'll track them down for you and post the link.

Regular PARAs (airborne)

















*
COLDHEARTED- could you post some more SOFs/RR stories/anecdotes? I'm hungry for more juicy details!
*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate I think we're both pretty sick of this debate! But just would say I do think these are PARA (airborne) and not SF but take your points, also if you look in the "Mission army" YT vid you will see there are PARAs equipped with TARs but anyway.......... let's agree to disagree!
> 
> 
> + yeah 26/11 had a BIG impact on police forces (and NSG) now we can see almost every state/large city has/is in the process of getting a well trained and well equipped ERT/SRT/QRT unit as well as other reforms and new acquisitions by police force around the nation.
> 
> + you can be sure PARA (airborne) have TARs- the only picture proof I can find though is 2012 IA day celebrations where the contingent of PARA (airborne) all had TARs.
> 
> AFIAK the Mission Army Ep with PARA (Airborne) guys with Vz58 went out last March/April which means that it most likely was filmed in mid/late 2010 so before 7 PARA were equipped with the TAR. My guess was all btns in PARA regmt now have at least a few TARs with additional batches equipping all eventually. Even pics of last IA day show regular PARA with TAR- i'll track them down for you and post the link.
> 
> Regular PARAs (airborne)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> COLDHEARTED- could you post some more SOFs/RR stories/anecdotes? I'm hungry for more juicy details!
> *




    

Lets agree to disagree!! LoL


Ya..not only do we have Teams in every major city which can react to such situations but it is also transforming the Police Deptts of various states.

I believe the India's war on terror greatly helped to keep the Army fighting fit and gave the jawans and officers the experience of what a combat situation is unlike various other countries who send their Armies to UN missions to gain experience.The result ios we have an Army which is among the most combat harderned force anywhere in the world.



Regarding stories..buddy i am working on it...all the stories i knew have already been shared so i am waiting for the time when i will get to meet a guy who has served in a unit which has faced action...as i rely heavily on them for my knowledge.


Theres this incident though in Kashmir when a company was getting posted to a new location.The company strength was low as half of the guys were in their previous base(shifting stuff) and the new guys were sent to this new location covered in 3 sides by big trees and a road on the 4th side.

The company strength would be less than 50 jawans who will digging bunkers all day and filling sand bags.Little did they know that the terorists were waiting for the right oppurtunity to strike.

At close to 00:00 hrs the terrorists close to 70 in number...no one is sure of the numbers but since the fire was comming from 3 sides that too in heavy numbers this figure can be assumed +/- 15...attacked the post.

Although there were hardly any casualties but the company commander sensed that they dont have much time before they start getting casualties so he made a call to the CO of the unit asking for help..thje time was 02:00.

The CO thinking that he may not be able to get the full strength of jawans to the location on time as most of the soldiers were sleeping and the ones on duty were only awake..took a brave decision.


As the drivers were awake he quickly ordered the drivers to start their vehicles and took everyone who was awake without waiting for all the soldiers to wake up.

His plan worked..the terrorists seeing headlights comming their way ran away thinking that large enforcements have come...little did they know the most of the vehicles were empty and some had hardly 5-6 soldiers.

Close to 12 terrorists and 4 jawans died that night.One guy wearing Patka helmet got shot at on the forehead 4 times(7.62)..and survived.It was a brave decision on part of the CO i guess coz had he been late god knows how many more soldiers we would have lost.

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## Sergi

^^^ Nice post.

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## KRAIT

Great pics and posts mate....keep it on...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS taking blood oath









(Sorry if posted earlier)

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## Koovie

WE nee more pics and vids, y are our Special forces so media shy


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> WE nee more pics and vids, y are our Special forces so media shy



You know in a recent documentary the SF commander said that it is out of intention that not much of pics and videos of SF are available in the media.


He was like "SF unit has an unwritten tradition or code..high performance low visibility.We dont publicise about our operations."

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## Koovie

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Thts not indian sf.
> 
> Marcos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also i believe tht PAK SFs are better equiped then their indian counterparts.



They are not MARCOS, they are sailors in the old VBBS uniforms

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MARCOS taking blood oath
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry if posted earlier)




Only 30 guys made it...speaks volumes about the induction % .......and people say becoming an IITian is difficult

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## Koovie

One question, are all MARCOS from the IN??? 

Just that you know it, the Physical Fitniss test in the navy is a joke
Qualifying in this Test is mandatory for enrolment. The standard of PFT is (i) One Mile (1.6 km) run to be completed in 7 minutes. (ii) 20 sit ups. (iii} 10 push ups.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> One question, are all MARCOS from the IN???
> 
> Just that you know it, the Physical Fitniss test in the navy is a joke
> Qualifying in this Test is mandatory for enrolment. The standard of PFT is (i) One Mile (1.6 km) run to be completed in 7 minutes. (ii) 20 sit ups. (iii} 10 push ups.



Yes all MARCOS are from the IN.

Navy and AF are not really a physically tough force and are more of an intellectual force.(thats my opinion)Which is the reason these MARCOS or GARUDAs have a longer training period thant the PARA.IA infantrymen usually see action in Kashmir and N-E where they gain experience and have the required physical-mental toughness.

It is for no reason that PARAs are considered the best and have the most operational experience among all SFs in India.They will be the first to be called in case any covert op is planned like the recent beheading incident.Moreover there is rule in the defence forces that..On Land the Army will have the seniority..In AIR the AF guys will have the seniority while on WATER the Navy will have the seniority.

MARCOS on the other hand are very well trained and the most well equipped among all the Indian SFs.I would like them to see more action though.They are not doing the work they are capable of doing which i believe is because of the unavailability of oppurtunity given to them.

GARUDA is a new force.It will take time for them to reach to the level of Para or Marcos.But they are on the right track.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR




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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> One question, are all MARCOS from the IN???
> 
> Just that you know it, the Physical Fitniss test in the navy is a joke
> Qualifying in this Test is mandatory for enrolment. The standard of PFT is (i) One Mile (1.6 km) run to be completed in 7 minutes. (ii) 20 sit ups. (iii} 10 push ups.



TBH mate this is irrelevant- just because the PFT for standard IN personal is not too rigorous has absolute zero correlation on MARCOs. MARCOs have their own stringent PFTs and have something like 80-90% drop out rate. The MARCOs operate as, in effect, an indepandant entity within the IN with their own, separate, budget, their own selection criteria their own PFTs, their own training wing and most MARCOs are recruited straight from "civvy street" (regular IN wanting to cross-over to MARCOs have to go through the exact same grueling selection process as everyone else). This is also the reason why MARCOs have an incredibly long training period- much of IA SF are recruited directly from PARA (Airborne) so are already incredibly fit- having already passed an extreme selection process, and have some combat training and experience. Not to mention once a MARCOs operator finsihes his training and is a fully-fledged operator he will be able to operate in every conceivable environment be it mountains, jungles, urban, marine etc and able to carry out every conceivable combat operation such as HALO/HAHO, HR, maritime interdiction, assualt, patrol, reconasence etc

Dug up this little gem to illustrate MARCOs' amwesomeness!!

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## Koovie

ok thanks Coldhearted Aviator and Abingdonboy, I was just shocked to see the IN standarts.

@ Coldhearted Aviator: Is that a real Insas rifle in your avatar???????????


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> @ Coldhearted Aviator: Is that a real Insas rifle in your avatar???????????



Locked and Loaded.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Locked and Loaded.



Did you get a chance to fire it? And have you got you hands on any other weapons in IA service? Tavor per chance??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Did you get a chance to fire it? And have you got you hands on any other weapons in IA service? Tavor per chance??



I have fired INSAS,LMG(bren) AND .303.My dream would be to get my hands on Tavor one day and that day i would put it in my avatar.I have carried RL..its very heavy.(was given a challenge by someone to carry it and run 1 km)

My favourite is the Bren LMG(love the sound and is the most feared small arm by terrorists) like IA soldiers and AK 47


Forgot to add Dunali in the list.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> My favourite is the *Bren LMG*(love the sound and is the most feared small arm by terrorists)



Bren has fu@ing awesome firepower  fired it decades ago while doing army attach camp in Serior NCC  still remember it 

But I don't think it can be used against Terrorist operations. It's a point defence gun. 
Correct me if I am wrong

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Bren has fu@ing awesome firepower  fired it decades ago while doing army attach camp in Serior NCC  still remember it
> 
> But I don't think it can be used against Terrorist operations. It's a point defence gun.
> Correct me if I am wrong



It is used against the terrorists buddy...Infact the terrorists fear this gun more than any other.It is very good when busting their hideouts or bunkers that they make in forests..though carefully used in urban areas.

I just love the sound when you fire small burst in repititions.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_MiL3IDC0U

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It is used against the terrorists buddy...Infact the terrorists fear this gun more than any other.It is very good when *busting this hideouts or bunkers* that they make in forests..though carefully used in urban areas.
> 
> I just love the sound when you fire small burst in repititions.
> 
> 
> 
> Bren Mk II - YouTube



That's what I am saying  it is a point defence gun. 
I was saying it isn't used against Terrosris operations (Counter Insergency Operations:CIOs) as Bren is too heavy for search and destroy operations. And for heavy fire support you need 2 people to Man the Bren. Loader and shooter. 

Yes it's sound is nightmare if it's being fired on you 
I got my hands on AK-47 , Tavor and MP5 but didn't get to fire them 
Have fired .303 it's vintage now but still dam accurate


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## Abingdonboy

The Bren is a cool and deably system but I really would like to see it laid to rest now- it is almost 80 yrs old FFS! I knoe the IMI Negev has been procured but in small numbers and relegated to purely SOFs as of right now and the INS LMG just doesn't cut it- I'm aware the IA is looking at replacing the Bren under F-INSAS but this can't come fast enough.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> That's what I am saying  it is a point defence gun.
> I was saying it isn't used against Terrosris operations (Counter Insergency Operations:CIOs) as Bren is too heavy for search and destroy operations. And for heavy fire support you need 2 people to Man the Bren. Loader and shooter.
> 
> Yes it's sound is nightmare if it's being fired on you
> I got my hands on AK-47 , Tavor and MP5 but didn't get to fire them
> Have fired .303 it's vintage now but still dam accurate




Ok heres the situation...Terrorists have occupied a house and have taken position and you manage to get everyone in that house safely outside and to a safer position.You ask the terrorists to surrender or face death.The terrorists respond by firing and the firefight starts...2-3 hours pass and sunset is just an hour away.You realise that you dont have the night fighting capablities and the reinforcements are still hours away so you decide to bring the LMG in and start shooting at a place which is well covered and INSAS is unable to penetrate..Here comes the Bren LMG...as soon as you start firing you notice chunks of concrete comming out and after emptying a few mags you have made enough space to throw in a grenade...kabooom!! 

This is how it happens sometimes and if it doesnt work out then there is the last and the only option...*RL*!!



Abingdonboy said:


> The Bren is a cool and deably system but I really would like to see it laid to rest now- it is almost 80 yrs old FFS! I knoe the IMI Negev has been procured but in small numbers and relegated to purely SOFs as of right now and the INS LMG just doesn't cut it- I'm aware the IA is looking at replacing the Bren under F-INSAS but this can't come fast enough.




Paras are a big fan of the PKM but i would really like to see the SAW with the IA.Negev is good too...MARCOS use it.


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> That's what I am saying  it is a point defence gun.
> I was saying it isn't used against Terrosris operations (Counter Insergency Operations:CIOs) as Bren is too heavy for search and destroy operations. And for heavy fire support you need 2 people to Man the Bren. Loader and shooter.
> 
> Yes it's sound is nightmare if it's being fired on you
> I got my hands on AK-47 , Tavor and MP5 but didn't get to fire them
> Have fired .303 it's vintage now but still dam accurate



Mate it isn't what weapon system you have but how you use it- in the wrong hands any weapon- from 9mm pistol to a 7.62mm Gatling gun is potentially dangerous. But if used properly by well trained and sensible individuals (aka IA) the weapon can be operated safely and effectively. IA even uses multi barrel 30mm GLs and 84mm RLs in J&K but they do so only when needed and when it is as safe as possible to do so.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok heres the situation...Terrorists have occupied a house and have taken position and you manage to get everyone in that house safely outside and to a safer position.You ask the terrorists to surrender or face death.The terrorists respond by firing and the firefight starts...2-3 hours pass and sunset is just an hour away.You realise that you dont have the night fighting capablities and the reinforcements are still hours away so you decide to bring the LMG in and start shooting at a place which is well covered and INSAS is unable to penetrate..Here comes the Bren LMG...as soon as you start firing you notice chunks of concrete comming out and after emptying a few mags you have made enough space to throw in a grenade...kabooom!!
> 
> This is how it happens sometimes and if it doesnt work out then there is the last and the only option...*RL*!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paras are a big fan of the PKM but i would really like to see the SAW with the IA.Negev is good too...MARCOS use it.



Yeah I've noticed PARAs (SF/AIRBORNE) adopting the PKM as their LMGs recently (3-4 years) but would defeintly like the IA as a whole (SFs and regular) to transition to a modern system the M249 SAW is a pretty awesome weapon and probably would be at the top of my list as the new standard issue LMG of the IA.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok heres the situation...Terrorists have occupied a house and have taken position and you manage to get everyone in that house safely outside and to a safer position.You ask the terrorists to surrender or face death.The terrorists respond by firing and the firefight starts...2-3 hours pass and sunset is just an hour away.You realise that you dont have the night fighting capablities and the reinforcements are still hours away so you decide to bring the LMG in and start shooting at a place which is well covered and INSAS is unable to penetrate..Here comes the Bren LMG...as soon as you start firing you notice chunks of concrete comming out and after emtying a few mags you have made enough space to throw in a grenade...kabooom!!
> 
> This is how it happens sometimes and if it doesnt work out then there is the last and the only option...*RL*!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paras are a big fan of the PKM but i would really like to see the SAW with the IA.Negev is good too...MARCOS use it.



I am not denying what you are saying. CIOs are search and destroy operations. They wonder around the suspected areas and ambush the terrorist. They use light weapons and a sniper with each team. The situation you menstioned missed the back ground. CIO team spotted the terrorist and get into advantge position. Call for surrender they open fire CIOs return fire. Terrorist run for cover. Take over the house CIOs form the perimeter. Call for surrender again. They refuse. CIOs tossed grenades blast oven the house. But terrorist and good in number and heavily armed. CIOs ask reinforcement and hold the perimeter. Reinforcement came with LMGs ,grenade launchers and RL. And tear apart the house and kill every scumbag 
Last thing it's a real incident 
So I am not going to accept CIOs use bren unless you say you work in CIOs and used it 

SAW would be a good option


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> I am not denying what you are saying. CIOs are search and destroy operations. They wonder around the suspected areas and ambush the terrorist. They use light weapons and a sniper with each team. The situation you menstioned missed the back ground. CIO team spotted the terrorist and get into advantge position. Call for surrender they open fire CIOs return fire. Terrorist run for cover. Take over the house CIOs form the perimeter. Call for surrender again. They refuse. CIOs tossed grenades blast oven the house. But terrorist and good in number and heavily armed. CIOs ask reinforcement and hold the perimeter. Reinforcement came with LMGs ,grenade launchers and RL. And tear apart the house and kill every scumbag
> Last thing it's a real incident
> So I am not going to accept CIOs use bren unless you say you work in CIOs and used it
> 
> SAW would be a good option



Dude,you changed the entire situation i was portraying. 

Anyways some pics from a COIN operation...have a look yourself what all weapons are used.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,you changed the entire situation i was portraying.
> 
> Anyways some pics from a COIN operation...have a look yourself what all weapons are used.


I didn't change it 
All I write is happened in reality and told to me by a member of CIOs  it is incident in 2008-9/JK/Kupwada or kupwad something like that. 
Nice pics. But they look like Training/practice of Raids than COIN or CIOs. 
Sorry I am not pulling your legs just telling you what I came to know from a in service friend.

If you follow news regularly you will hear most of the time the Terrorist escaped in darkness of night. That's because CIOs are 10/15 member team without heavy/medium weapon. So they can hold the perimeter tight. I dare any terrorist to try that when Bren is installed there


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>


 
Is it typical for IA to use weapons of a guest army? 

Also is IA going to replace the vintage Brens ?



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sir,i can understand your concern and trust me no one has crossed the line here.Discussing if the Marcos are there in regular RR or not wont disclose their location as no one till now even after knowing named the special RR battalion that is meant for Paras.I assure you no sensitve info will be shared in future also.No one will share current deployment also.Also the things being discussed are years old and i understand that this is a Pakistani forum which is keeping me from being open here.
> 
> 
> Regarding that beheading incident..Guys you can message me or add me..Will let you know via messages or mail..I cant share it here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well those shoes are different from the shoes our guys are wearing.The Para commandos shoes are not US Army boots and made of a different material and cost 10,000 INR.



Boots used by PA:





I have a pair of them aswell.


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## Sergi

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Is it typical for IA to use weapons of a guest army?
> 
> Also is IA going to replace the vintage Brens ?
> 
> 
> 
> Boots used by PA:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a pair of them aswell.


*Nice boots. But keep them and PA out of this thread*.
1. Don't think so
2. Replacement for Bren is being searched. Insas LMG is also there


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Sergi said:


> *Nice boots. But keep them and PA out of this thread*.
> 1. Don't think so
> 2. Replacement for Bren is being searched. Insas LMG is also there



Insas LMG... apologizes bud... i though it was just a automatic version of Insas... Also which Machine gun and HMG does IA use?


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## Sergi

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Insas LMG... apologizes bud... i though it was just a automatic version of Insas... Also which Machine gun and HMG does IA use?



INSAS rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Indian_Army

IA is scouting for more advanced HMGs and LMGs.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Insas LMG... apologizes bud... i though it was just a automatic version of Insas... Also which Machine gun and HMG does IA use?


The IA uses a modiefied version of the vintage Bren.Now under the F-INSAS programme we will soon be getting new machine guns.

HMG in use are Browning m2 and NSV.


Regarding the use of equipments...those pics are from Alaska..so IA was the guest Army..and theres no set patter on the use of equipments..a lot of time Armies exchange their equipments and train.US SF personnel were seen using Tavors in one excercise.


Indian Army?s modernization drive gathers steam - Times Of India

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> I didn't change it
> All I write is happened in reality and told to me by a member of CIOs  it is incident in 2008-9/JK/Kupwada or kupwad something like that.
> Nice pics. But they look like Training/practice of Raids than COIN or CIOs.
> Sorry I am not pulling your legs just telling you what I came to know from a in service friend.
> 
> If you follow news regularly you will hear most of the time the Terrorist escaped in darkness of night. That's because CIOs are 10/15 member team without heavy/medium weapon. So they can hold the perimeter tight. I dare any terrorist to try that when Bren is installed there



Firsttly and most importantly i would say i love it when people pull my legs as the biggest passion apart from my profession is to discuss,debate,read about the SF and Infantrymen of our country.

Secondly the thing you mentioned that it is training pics is completely wrong..it is actually of a COIN operation in Kathua which is close to Jammu in 2009.(I am not very sure about the dates)I remeber it as i am from jammu and in the operation a TV reporter got shot while live operation was getting covered..i still remeber him getting hit on the head and blood comming out like a tap of water.

Infact i think you should try to update yourself by seeing a few pics on the operations in kashmir as not only is the Bren used but the PKM and INSAS LMG is also used.It is a critical element in the operations.How else is a fortified position supposed to be occupied oif we dont use LMG(7.62)?

There are a lot of pics of forces using Brens and PKM in urban environments.

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## Koovie

I thought Insas LMG is currently replacing th brens??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> I thought Insas LMG is currently replacing th brens??



The Army is going to say Bye-Bye to the Insas family pretty soon.

The soldiers hate INSAS LMG...it is a good for nothing weapon...Even the Bren which is decades old is much better and mostly the soldiers prefer to carry Bren while the SF is in love with the PKM.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Firsttly and most importantly i would say i love it when people pull my legs as the biggest passion apart from my profession is to discuss,debate,read about the SF and Infantrymen of our country.
> 
> Secondly the thing you mentioned that it is training pics is completely wrong..it is actually of a COIN operation in Kathua which is close to Jammu in 2009.(I am not very sure about the dates)I remeber it as i am from jammu and in the operation a TV reporter got shot while live operation was getting covered..i still remeber him getting hit on the head and blood comming out like a tap of water.
> 
> Infact i think you should try to update yourself by seeing a few pics on the operations in kashmir as not only is the Bren used but the PKM and INSAS LMG is also used.It is a critical element in the operations.How else is a fortified position supposed to be occupied oif we dont use LMG(7.62)?
> 
> There are a lot of pics of forces using Brens and PKM in urban environments.




I must say you have a great collection. Thanks for sharing it 
Let me put it again
1. I am not in service my best buddy is a serving officer in SF. 
2. Like you I have the same eagerness of IA so I keep digging him everytime we meet. 
3. So what I am telling you is straight from a IA guy. And the incident I mention earlier he was part of it. 
4. Typical COIN or CIOs is a team consisting 10/15 guies generally SF , wondering around the area( patrol) to hunt down any incergency. Armed with AKs and Tavar. 
5. They call reinforcement if and only if they themself can't take on terrorists in the situation if enemy is fortified.
6. I am pretty sure the pics you post are of reinforcers they came after CIOs/COIN guies made enemy hole in. 
7. I am not saying Bren isn't used to trash Holed enemy. What I am saying is the CIOs guies "who actually search and hunt" carry ligh weapons. They travel light as they return to base after 2/3 days. 
8. If you want to say the reinforces are part of COIN/CIOs I will agree with you 

And to add one important point most of the time these guies are dressed up like terrorist and carry only AKs 



Koovie said:


> I thought Insas LMG is currently replacing th brens??


It was supposed to be. But it's unclear right now. Last I read somewhere new LMG is being tested. But you know OFB so .... IA might go for imported one.

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## arcelite

nsg

2012

Mock drill at bangalore airport cant post pic use keywords to find them saw tactical blanket in it

also times lite has 2011 mumbai anti terror mock drill


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> I must say you have a great collection. Thanks for sharing it
> Let me put it again
> 1. I am not in service my best buddy is a serving officer in SF.
> 2. Like you I have the same eagerness of IA so I keep digging him everytime we meet.
> 3. So what I am telling you is straight from a IA guy. And the incident I mention earlier he was part of it.
> 4. Typical COIN or CIOs is a team consisting 10/15 guies generally SF , wondering around the area( patrol) to hunt down any incergency. Armed with AKs and Tavar.
> 5. They call reinforcement if and only if they themself can't take on terrorists in the situation if enemy is fortified.
> 6. I am pretty sure the pics you post are of reinforcers they came after CIOs/COIN guies made enemy hole in.
> 7. I am not saying Bren isn't used to trash Holed enemy. What I am saying is the CIOs guies "who actually search and hunt" carry ligh weapons. They travel light as they return to base after 2/3 days.
> 8. If you want to say the reinforces are part of COIN/CIOs I will agree with you
> 
> And to add one important point most of the time these guies are dressed up like terrorist and carry only AKs



Mate,I think you are getting confused with what he said....Heres how the situation is...

There is a QRT team in every company or Ghataks.These are the guys who go for operations.Their number is close to 50-60.They are armed with Aks,SVD,RL,MGL and Bren.

Whenever there is any intel on any suspicious activity these guys are the first to respond.Typical operation is like if there is an intel on terrorists being present in a small village..They will first go and lay outer cordon..The second team will go in and search all houses.Once contact has been established they will cover the esacape routes from the house and call for surrender.If fired upon they will respond back...Reinforcements will only be called when the Commander of the operation has doubts over the required strength of troops needed for operation,or when low on ammo,food or he thinks it will take long.Normally the reinforcements are not called as mostly there are more than 5-6 terrorists ina ny operation which can be handled by the team.


The thing you are mentioning is of the SF operation where they get dressed up like the localites and carry light weapons.You will never see the Infantry troops dressed like localites and moreover infantry troops always operate in the SOPs ie they carry the firepower which has to be carried by the strength of the team...*If a team is not carrying things like LMG,HHTI,MGL,RL etc and they get screwed..the officer can almost be assured to be grilled in the Court of Inquiry*.

There is a thing called LRP which stands for Longe Route Patrols..which is for 7-15 days out of base in unknown territory..The IA jawans even carry Brens in LRP.


Lastly,everything said above is the first hand experience gained having spent 2 years in LaL Chowk,Srinagar..sometimes even travelling to Kupwara,handwara,Doda etc ..as most memebers in my family have served the RR...so i am not relying on pics here for facts. 

*
Lastly,do try to get any info available from him regarding ops,equipment,weapons etc and share it here. *

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## Abingdonboy

arcelite said:


> nsg
> 
> 2012
> 
> Mock drill at bangalore airport cant post pic use keywords to find them saw tactical blanket in it
> 
> also times lite has 2011 mumbai anti terror mock drill



Could you provide a link to where you saw this- I would love to see the pics but am having a hard time locating them using these "key words".


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## arcelite

imgres?q=nsg+mock+drill //article.wn.com/view/2012/ nsg 2012 mock drill


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> I must say you have a great collection. Thanks for sharing it
> Let me put it again
> 1. I am not in service my best buddy is a serving officer in SF.
> 2. Like you I have the same eagerness of IA so I keep digging him everytime we meet.
> 3. So what I am telling you is straight from a IA guy. And the incident I mention earlier he was part of it.
> 4. Typical COIN or CIOs is a team consisting 10/15 guies generally SF , wondering around the area( patrol) to hunt down any incergency. Armed with AKs and Tavar.
> 5. They call reinforcement if and only if they themself can't take on terrorists in the situation if enemy is fortified.
> 6. I am pretty sure the pics you post are of reinforcers they came after CIOs/COIN guies made enemy hole in.
> 7. I am not saying Bren isn't used to trash Holed enemy. What I am saying is the CIOs guies "who actually search and hunt" carry ligh weapons. They travel light as they return to base after 2/3 days.
> 8. If you want to say the reinforces are part of COIN/CIOs I will agree with you
> 
> And to add one important point most of the time these guies are dressed up like terrorist and carry only AKs
> 
> 
> It was supposed to be. But it's unclear right now. Last I read somewhere new LMG is being tested. But you know OFB so .... IA might go for imported one.


 


Mate what you have described is one small part of the spectrum of ops the IA undertakes in JK. This is one very specific scenario you have painted ie SOFs "hunting" for bad guys. Regular guys-RR, are obviously going to operate differently when tasked with different missions and hence have different weapons and firepower.


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## Koovie

arcelite said:


> imgres?q=nsg+mock+drill //article.wn.com/view/2012/ nsg 2012 mock drill



doesnt work.............

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## Abingdonboy

arcelite said:


> imgres?q=nsg+mock+drill //article.wn.com/view/2012/ nsg 2012 mock drill



Still not getting anything more than:
Mock Drill Portrays Plane-Highjack at Sgr Airport - Worldnews.com

Is this what you're talking about?



Just post the enite HTML and we can copy and paste-THANKS bud!


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## Koovie

arcelite said:


> imgres?q=nsg+mock+drill //article.wn.com/view/2012/ nsg 2012 mock drill



link doesnt work 
I guess you changed the link in some way bcause you just have 3 posts so far and cant post links, right?
I am eagerly waitung to see them

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> link doesnt work
> I guess you changed the link in some way bcause you just have 3 posts so far and cant post links, right?
> I am eagerly waitung to see them



+100!! lol!!

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> doesnt work.............










Feel like this!!

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## Abingdonboy

Off topic- I miss boris!! He was a great contributor to this thread, his ban looks permanent

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mate,I think you are getting confused with what he said....Heres how the situation is...
> 
> There is a QRT team in every company or Ghataks.These are the guys who go for operations.Their number is close to 50-60.They are armed with Aks,SVD,RL,MGL and Bren.
> 
> Whenever there is any intel on any suspicious activity these guys are the first to respond.Typical operation is like if there is an intel on terrorists being present in a small village..They will first go and lay outer cordon..The second team will go in and search all houses.Once contact has been established they will cover the esacape routes from the house and call for surrender.If fired upon they will respond back...Reinforcements will only be called when the Commander of the operation has doubts over the required strength of troops needed for operation,or when low on ammo,food or he thinks it will take long.Normally the reinforcements are not called as mostly there are more than 5-6 terrorists ina ny operation which can be handled by the team.
> 
> 
> The thing you are mentioning is of the SF operation where they get dressed up like the localites and carry light weapons.You will never see the Infantry troops dressed like localites and moreover infantry troops always operate in the SOPs ie they carry the firepower which has to be carried by the strength of the team...*If a team is not carrying things like LMG,HHTI,MGL,RL etc and they get screwed..the officer can almost be assured to be grilled in the Court of Inquiry*.
> 
> There is a thing called LRP which stands for Longe Route Patrols..which is for 7-15 days out of base in unknown territory..The IA jawans even carry Brens in LRP.
> 
> 
> Lastly,everything said above is the first hand experience gained having spent 2 years in LaL Chowk,Srinagar..sometimes even travelling to Kupwara,handwara,Doda etc ..as most memebers in my family have served the RR...so i am not relying on pics here for facts.
> 
> *
> Lastly,do try to get any info available from him regarding ops,equipment,weapons etc and share it here. *



*You are pretty right here. It's ^^^ a standard procedure of IA. No doubt. 
I think our definations of COIN/CIOs aren't matching  
*
QRT/SRT/Ghatakas are in every company. Agree. But they move only on intel. They are "Reaction teams" ,Right ???
What I am saying is CIOs/COIN guies "search and hunt" and they are SF or may be Ghataks. if you think my idea of COIN is wrong please tell me. Don't hesitate to say I am WRONG. I will like to correct myself 

I will have a chance to interact with him in "Diwali". He is a hard nut to crack though I will share whatever he allow me to. But I have a feeling that he might not like PDF 

Edit: I was searching for COIN defination but find this on wiki. Give it a try 


The Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School (CIJW) in Vairengte, Mizoram, India is a training and research establishment of the Indian Army specializing in unconventional warfare, especially counter-insurgency and guerrilla warfare. CIJW is one of the premier counter-insurgency training institutions in the world.[2] The school's motto is to "*fight the guerrilla like a guerrilla*".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Insurgency_and_Jungle_Warfare_School

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## arcelite

ok in 3 ... 2...

ok after this post

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## Koovie

arcelite said:


> ok in 3 ... 2...
> 
> ok after this post


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## Sergi

arcelite said:


> ok in 3 ... 2...
> 
> ok after this post


Nope. Need one more to post links


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## arcelite

Post count I WILL KILL YOU .....   

Google Image Result for http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7Fiz7THFH8g/0.jpg

Google Image Result for http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/00369/TH24_MOCK_DRILL_369597f.jpg

Google Image Result for http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3011/020820100040050101.jpg

Google Image Result for http://lite.epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/BGMIR/2011/08/06/2/Img/Pc0020600.jpg

Feast yer eyes laddies.

More on demand

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate what you have described is one small part of the spectrum of ops the IA undertakes in JK. This is one very specific scenario you have painted ie SOFs "hunting" for bad guys. Regular guys-RR, are obviously going to operate differently when tasked with different missions and hence have different weapons and firepower.


Yes and I totally agree with it. 
RR guies do most of tasks in JK. Yes. 

Our argument is on COIN concept/defination. I agree with HIS every word. That's correct procedure. All I am saying is it isn't COIN. COIN is "search and hunt" atleast that's what I know. I am open for new info. Don't mind to correct me


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## Koovie

arcelite said:


> Post count I WILL KILL YOU .....
> 
> Google Image Result for http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7Fiz7THFH8g/0.jpg
> 
> Google Image Result for http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/00369/TH24_MOCK_DRILL_369597f.jpg
> 
> Google Image Result for http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3011/020820100040050101.jpg
> 
> Google Image Result for http://lite.epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/BGMIR/2011/08/06/2/Img/Pc0020600.jpg
> 
> Feast yer eyes laddies.
> 
> More on demand



Thanks for sharing!!! Post more if you have 
NSG pic is quite small though.

2end pic: Does National Disaster Management Authority really have armed units ?!


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## Abingdonboy

This pic is NSG I'd say:






Nice find! Tactical/ballisitc shileds and ballaistic visors seen for first time in use with NSG!


This pic is some SRT/ERT/QRT of AP:







If you've got any more on NSG we'll take 'em!!

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## arcelite

Yup something like nest.

In 1st pic the nsg has this if you can see a guy carry something right hand 

Google Image Result for http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/ppi.jpg


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## Abingdonboy

3rd pic is of CRPF conducting HAZMAT training:

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## arcelite

last pic if anyone could enlarge here i'd be grateful

The helmets are Maskha BTW + in the last one I believe they have a Visor on the second guy

The guys with blue uniform are Desi version of NEST


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## Abingdonboy

arcelite said:


> last pic if anyone could enlarge here i'd be grateful
> 
> The helmets are Maskha BTW + in the last one I believe they have a Visor on the second guy


GOT IT!!







Looking pretty good!

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## Koovie

Wow looks awesome! We have made some good progress in upgrading CT forces (NSG, CRPF Cobras, and most state police forces)  
But unfortunately it allways takes a painful wake up call like 26/11

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> *You are pretty right here. It's ^^^ a standard procedure of IA. No doubt.
> I think our definations of COIN/CIOs aren't matching
> *
> QRT/SRT/Ghatakas are in every company. Agree. But they move only on intel. They are "Reaction teams" ,Right ???
> What I am saying is CIOs/COIN guies "search and hunt" and they are SF or may be Ghataks. if you think my idea of COIN is wrong please tell me. Don't hesitate to say I am WRONG. I will like to correct myself
> 
> I will have a chance to interact with him in "Diwali". He is a hard nut to crack though I will share whatever he allow me to. But I have a feeling that he might not like PDF
> 
> Edit: I was searching for COIN defination but find this on wiki. Give it a try
> 
> 
> The Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School (CIJW) in Vairengte, Mizoram, India is a training and research establishment of the Indian Army specializing in unconventional warfare, especially counter-insurgency and guerrilla warfare. CIJW is one of the premier counter-insurgency training institutions in the world.[2] The school's motto is to "*fight the guerrilla like a guerrilla*".
> 
> Counter-insurgency and Jungle Warfare School - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




The thing is the IA would never send their teams for ops unless and until there is an intel coz there is no point spending a night in some forest expecting something to happen.So the thing is most of the time it will only be reaction teams.

I think you are not getting the complete picture of operations in Kashmir.The operation i previously mentioned was in an urban environment operation now suppose we have a situation which you suggest is a different concept where in the Team is carrying out an Ambush.So what is the first thing when it is decided that an Ambush will be laid??...It is the Intel(right?)..After getting Intel a QRT will be sent on the location and a ambush will be set according to the intel like which path are the likely to take,what will be the strength like etc...Now do you know that most of the time the guy who gives the Intel is a surrendered militant or a villager and he is supposed to go with the team in the operation...so now what will you call it coz this is also a reaction team?but it is also conducting a COIN op.

Lets take another scenario...An infantry battalion is located in the border..they see a few guys crossing in on the HHTI and the officer decides to send in a team which will be on a Search and Destroy mission...so here also the factor of intel is there.

Without intel the Infantry and RR battalions dont operate..For SFs i cant say much as i have never interacted with a SF guy but according to my knowledge they are mostly operating either with RR or they carry out *under cover* ops.The SF company is attached with every RR Sector(like Romeo force,Kilo force,Delta Force).So whenever a special op is carried out these Sf guys are a part of it...Inspite of being with the RR guys they like to operate amongst themselves and have that behaviour where they think they are the best and lead from the front..The RR guys are not very fond of this behaviour as this deprives them of action and kills but still the comradrie is very much there.

During an operating in one of the most dangerous operations in Kashmir a combined team of RR and SF guys whose strength was close to a section came under heavy fire for a dugout..the exact location was not known and in the team there were 2-3 SF guys were there with like some 8-9 RR guys.These 2-3 guys told the RR guys to take position and not follow them and just give them covering fire...and started leading the counter attack...Even though the RR guys didnt agree but they didnt refuse to obey and soon these 3 guys were under heavy fire from a machine gun and resulted in all 3 getting heavily injured..seeing this the RR guys charged and the terrorists were overpowered..unfortunately we lost 1 SF guy..This is how the SF is..and i particularly love this attitude and thatswhy i say they are the best..They dont fear anything and they believe they are the best.People can take this thing negatively but you need to have a really big heart to take the action those 3 guys took and i understood what they must have thought before taking this step..they didnt want the RR guys to risk and thought because of their superior training and weaponry they should lead from the front...Although sometimes they change their teams in operations which i dont like tbh..but thats another issue.

So comming back to my point..almost 90% of COIN op are carried out by the RR and they act on intel..So if you are saying it doesnt necessarily need to have intel then i dont agree with you.With regard to SF op thats another issue alltogether but it also requires intel..that too of a different kind where the Army Intel team is involved with the job of getting them in(undercover ops).

Without intel i dont think there will be any success in any operation.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The thing is the IA would never send their teams for ops unless and until there is an intel coz there is no point spending a night in some forest expecting something to happen.So the thing is most of the time it will only be reaction teams.
> 
> I think you are not getting the complete picture of operations in Kashmir.The operation i previously mentioned was in an urban environment operation now suppose we have a situation which you suggest is a different concept where in the Team is carrying out an Ambush.So what is the first thing when it is decided that an Ambush will be laid??...It is the Intel(right?)..After getting Intel a QRT will be sent on the location and a ambush will be set according to the intel like which path are the likely to take,what will be the strength like etc...Now do you know that most of the time the guy who gives the Intel is a surrendered militant or a villager and he is supposed to go with the team in the operation...so now what will you call it coz this is also a reaction team?but it is also conducting a COIN op.
> 
> Lets take another scenario...An infantry battalion is located in the border..they see a few guys crossing in on the HHTI and the officer decides to send in a team which will be on a Search and Destroy mission...so here also the factor of intel is there.
> 
> Without intel the Infantry and RR battalions dont operate..For SFs i cant say much as i have never interacted with a SF guy but according to my knowledge they are mostly operating either with RR or they carry out *under cover* ops.The SF company is attached with every RR Sector(like Romeo force,Kilo force,Delta Force).So whenever a special op is carried out these Sf guys are a part of it...Inspite of being with the RR guys they like to operate amongst themselves and have that behaviour where they think they are the best and lead from the front..The RR guys are not very fond of this behaviour as this deprives them of action and kills but still the comradrie is very much there.
> 
> During an operating in one of the most dangerous operations in Kashmir a combined team of RR and SF guys whose strength was close to a section came under heavy fire for a dugout..the exact location was not known and in the team there were 2-3 SF guys were there with like some 8-9 RR guys.These 2-3 guys told the RR guys to take position and not follow them and just give them covering fire...and started leading the counter attack...Even though the RR guys didnt agree but they didnt refuse to obey and soon these 3 guys were under heavy fire from a machine gun and resulted in all 3 getting heavily injured..seeing this the RR guys charged and the terrorists were overpowered..unfortunately we lost 1 SF guy..This is how the SF is..and i particularly love this attitude and thatswhy i say they are the best..They dont fear anything and they believe they are the best.People can take this thing negatively but you need to have a really big heart to take the action those 3 guys took and i understood what they must have thought before taking this step..they didnt want the RR guys to risk and thought because of their superior training and weaponry they should lead from the front...Although sometimes they change their teams in operations which i dont like tbh..but thats another issue.
> 
> So comming back to my point..almost 90% of COIN op are carried out by the RR and they act on intel..So if you are saying it doesnt necessarily need to have intel then i dont agree with you.With regard to SF op thats another issue alltogether but it also requires intel..that too of a different kind where the Army Intel team is involved with the job of getting them in(undercover ops).
> 
> Without intel i dont think there will be any success in any operation.



*Now we have a lot of points to disagree. It will be interesting  ( by the way can you give more details of that 2/3 SF guies story ???)*
1. *The thing is the IA would never send their teams for ops unless and until there is an intel coz there is no point spending a night in some forest expecting something to happen*: 
Completely wrong statement. Every army camp in HOT area have minimum 2/3 perimeter patrols staring at evening. I know exact timing of this things but it won't be good to write it here. And it exceeds beyond the camp perimeter. 
2. I said it before I am not disagreeing with Kashmir OPs. We are arguing on COIN concept , right ???
3. Ambush Parties operate in War or HOT zones *without intel*. They laid ambushes near possible hideouts, water sources or the valley openings.
4. Kashmir is ok now but it was a mess decade ago. 
5. You know about RR Ops. SF OPs even though *NOT UNDERCOVER* never see the day light as they belive in low profile and don't talk too much. Let alone media. Forget the under cover operations. Most of SF guies will deny that SF ever take up any under cover OP. 
6. If you have a chance to meet any SF guy and be able to make him talk you will understand what I mean. They talk very little about their work.

Standard Operating procedure for COIN ( you can confirm it with RR guies )
1. You don't get intel all the time. So you can't sit idle in HOT zone. 
2. Patrolling scouts ( always SF guies or atmost Ghataks with SF ) sniff for tresses around the infected area. Say Kashmir valley. They look for stresses. Temp camps, burnt wood, food , footprints or even unusual bird movement in jungle. 
3. They rely message (coded) to CC and follow the trail. 
4. Backup is formed and moved to nearest OP. 
5. If COIN can get closed and able to take out all they do it themself. If not ( fortification, heavy weapons or numerical adv) they setup perimeter and call in backup. 

This is COIN procedure. In Kashimir everything is mixed up. But still the COIN guies who actually start the job travel very very light. 

SF is trained to these things so they are mostly preffered for the JOB. Even most of the boys in camp aren't aware of presence of SF

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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Yes and I totally agree with it.
> RR guies do most of tasks in JK. Yes.
> 
> Our argument is on COIN concept/defination. I agree with HIS every word. That's correct procedure. All I am saying is it isn't COIN. COIN is "search and hunt" atleast that's what I know. I am open for new info. Don't mind to correct me



Fair enough, the offical definition of COIN is "A counter-insurgency or counterinsurgency operation involves actions taken by the recognized government of a nation to contain or quell an insurgency taken up against it". This encompasses a whole range of tactics from direct action like "snatch and grab" ops or "search and hunt" ops to regular patrolling and tactics to "win hearts and minds" of local populace such as building schools and the such.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> *Now we have a lot of points to disagree. It will be interesting  ( by the way can you give more details of that 2/3 SF guies story ???)*
> 1. *The thing is the IA would never send their teams for ops unless and until there is an intel coz there is no point spending a night in some forest expecting something to happen*:
> Completely wrong statement. Every army camp in HOT area have minimum 2/3 perimeter patrols staring at evening. I know exact timing of this things but it won't be good to write it here. And it exceeds beyond the camp perimeter.


 
That is called Area Domination Patrol !!




> 2. I said it before I am not disagreeing with Kashmir OPs. We are arguing on COIN concept , right ???



Right!



> 3. Ambush Parties operate in War or HOT zones without intel. They laid ambushes near possible hideouts, water sources or the valley openings.



And when exactly to lay the Ambush?..If no intel is present then what will be the timings like?..I agree that sometimes it may be like guessing without intel but most of the time intel should also be present.




> 4. Kashmir is ok now but it was a mess decade ago.



Most people dont even know that once upon a time even BMPs were used and we had terrorist training camps in Anantnag and Kulgam.




> 5. You know about RR Ops. SF OPs even though NOT UNDERCOVER never see the day light as they belive in low profile and don't talk too much. Let alone media. Forget the under cover operations. Most of SF guies will deny that SF ever take up any under cover OP.



I know that and that is why i love Para.the amount of work they have done is unmatchable.I am really sorry for saying this guys(particularly MARCOS fans) that had the Marcos done even 40% of what Para does..you would be reading it everywhere like the interview they gave after 26/11 operation without killing a single terrorist and while the gunfight was going on..Forget Para even the Army guys wont indulge in this type of behaviour.No wonder you come to know about every single thing they do like Anti-piracy op to small ops in the valley..their contribution to Op Rakshak is close to iota.




> 6. If you have a chance to meet any SF guy and be able to make him talk you will understand what I mean. They talk very little about their work.



I know that..forget about SF guy you cannot even get info out of a IAF pilot (@ Abingdonboy) 




> Standard Operating procedure for COIN ( you can confirm it with RR guies )
> 1. You don't get intel all the time. So you can't sit idle in HOT zone.
> 2. Patrolling scouts ( always SF guies or atmost Ghataks with SF ) sniff for tresses around the infected area. Say Kashmir valley. They look for stresses. Temp camps, burnt wood, food , footprints or even unusual bird movement in jungle.
> 3. They rely message (coded) to CC and follow the trail.
> 4. Backup is formed and moved to nearest OP.
> 5. If COIN can get closed and able to take out all they do it themself. If not ( fortification, heavy weapons or numerical adv) they setup perimeter and call in backup.



Nice...but do you realise that this is *a* type of COIN operation and doesnt always happen...COIN includes various stuff..this is just 1 kind.

BTW sniffing for traces can also be called seeking Intel?  

Also they go to villages interact with them and try to get info during searches which can be called intel gathering and not a search and destroy mission.



> This is COIN procedure. In Kashimir everything is mixed up. But still the COIN guies who actually start the job travel very very light.
> 
> SF is trained to these things so they are mostly preffered for the JOB. Even most of the boys in camp aren't aware of presence of SF



SF guys travel light not the RR guys.Most of the operation is either done by RR or by teams which include both SF and RR guys.

Secondly SF is preferred for Special Ops and regular ops are done by RR guys.

SF when undercover is not known to anyone..forget about the boys in the camp..Maybe the Commander has a idea about their location and prevents other units from conducting op in those areas.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That is called Area Domination Patrol !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right!
> 
> 
> 
> And when exactly to lay the Ambush?..If no intel is present then what will be the timings like?..I agree that sometimes it may be like guessing without intel but most of the time intel should also be present.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people dont even know that once upon a time even BMPs were used and we had terrorist training camps in Anantnag and Kulgam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know that and that is why i love Para.the amount of work they have done is unmatchable.I am really sorry for saying this guys(particularly MARCOS fans) that had the Marcos done even 40% of what Para does..you would be reading it everywhere like the interview they gave after 26/11 operation without killing a single terrorist and while the gunfight was going on..Forget Para even the Army guys wont indulge in this type of behaviour.No wonder you come to know about every single thing they do like Anti-piracy op to small ops in the valley..their contribution to Op Rakshak is close to iota.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know that..forget about SF guy you cannot even get info out of a IAF pilot(@ Abingdonboy)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice...but do you realise that this is *a* type of COIN operation and doesnt always happen...COIN includes various stuff..this is just 1 kind.
> 
> BTW sniffing for traces can also be called seeking Intel?
> 
> Also they go to villages interact with them and try to get info during searches which can be called intel gathering and not a search and destroy mission.
> 
> 
> 
> SF guys travel light not the RR guys.Most of the operation is either done by RR or by teams which include both SF and RR guys.
> 
> Secondly SF is preferred for Special Ops and regular ops are done by RR guys.
> 
> SF when undercover is not known to anyone..forget about the boys in the camp..Maybe the Commander has a idea about their location and prevents other units from conducting op in those areas.


1. Exactly. *ADP*. I couldn't recall the name so write all that 
2. 
3. I will say only 10 % of Ambush are laid on intel. Rest of 90% are "experienced wild guesses" and strategic important points like area entrance points. 
4. that's why I write it was a mess . 
5. Don't underestimate Marcos. 26/11 interview was PR to calm down people. These guies also operate in Kashmir. There is a strange combination of PARAs+ SFs and Marcos in J&K. Media some how manage to pull out info after 26/11. May be retired guies. And all infor is old. MARCOS had done some excellent work which will never come out. You need to be lucky to know that 
6. I didn't know that. So we have a pilot here  nice to here that 
7. Yes sniffing is intel  but you have to do it yourself. Nobody helps. That was the point. 
COIN teams do interact with villagers but not the one on hunt. Interaction is done by smartly dressed guies. And like a PR mission. 
COIN never appear before anyone if they are on tress or hunt. Keep low profile as much as they can. Meeting civilians always give away there positions and intentions. And may cause harm. 
8. We don't have UNDERCOVER OPs regularly. SF is used intensively for COIN. 

My friend told me a story about the incident happen in 2006/7.it was even published in TOI. COIN team of 10 SF members spotted a terrorist group of 5/6. Instead of gunning them down they trialled them to their hideout in deep jungle and unknowingly enter the terrorist training camp. They were Armed with just AKs so they relay message for backup and hide for 7/8 hours still backup came. When backup came and engage the terrorist. terrorists fight back unaware of presence of COIN team on their flank. COIN enter the battle and took out front line from flank Total 20/25 terrorist were killed and around same number run away. No causality to COIN team.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> My friend told me a story about the incident happen in 2006/7.it was even published in TOI. COIN team of 10 SF members spotted a terrorist group of 5/6. Instead of gunning them down they trialled them to their hideout in deep jungle and unknowingly enter the terrorist training camp. They were Armed with just AKs so they relay message for backup and hide for 7/8 hours still backup came. When backup came and engage the terrorist terrorists fight back unaware of presence of COIN team on their flak. COIN enter the battle and took out front line from flank Total 20/25 terrorist were killed and around same number run away. No causality to COIN team.




More oe Less i agree with most points.

I never said i am understimating the capabilities of Marcos..i am saying i dont like that behaviour.



> MARCOS had done some excellent work which will never come out. You need to be lucky to know that




Do you know any such incident..Moreover the no of Marcos in the valley is very less..Kindly educate me if you have an idea about it.




The Pilot issue is something else..We dont have a IAF pilot..We do have a Cessna pilot...who is trolling in this thread 


And You Mr..you need to get everything out of that SF guy you know..I will buy you a drink if you come to Delhi

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> More oe Less i agree with most points.
> 
> I never said i am understimating the capabilities of Marcos..i am saying i dont like that behaviour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know any such incident..Moreover the no of Marcos in the valley is very less..Kindly educate me if you have an idea about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pilot issue is something else..We dont have a IAF pilot..We do have a Cessna pilot...who is trolling in this thread
> 
> 
> And You Mr..you need to get everything out of that SF guy you know..I will buy you a drink if you come to Delhi


If I know correctly MARCOS where made to appear that press conference. It wasn't their fault. Those guies where into their base the moment they debrief NSG. They were recalled back for that press release. 

I don't know any MARCOS personally. But I know one operation carried out in lake boat ( don't know the name of lake) in J&K. It was a combined operation. ( RR+ SF + MARCOS ) boat house MARCOS sneak in boat through water and snatch a militant area commander under the covering fire of SF and Paras who tear apart everything after MARCOS get back into the water with package. Didn't you know this ??? You are from J&K right ???

hahaahaha you are being funny here  you want me to interrogate SF guy  bad idea  I love my nose
We are childhood friends we know everything about each other except this. He don't share confidential things which even I don't want him to. He give me generalise info , weapon info tactics info. Even teach me some good tricks.

Tell some stories of missions which are already published in media. Nothing beyond that. Just I do get info better than media. eg in above incident the sentry on the boat house was taken down by SF sniper at the same movement MARCOS guies get into the boat and shoot guards

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> If I know correctly MARCOS where made to appear that press conference. It wasn't their fault. Those guies where into their base the moment they debrief NSG. They were recalled back for that press release.
> 
> I don't know any MARCOS personally. But I know one operation carried out in lake boat ( don't know the name of lake) in J&K. It was a combined operation. ( RR+ SF + MARCOS ) boat house MARCOS sneak in boat through water and snatch a militant area commander under the covering fire of SF and Paras who tear apart everything after MARCOS get back into the water with package. Didn't you know this ??? You are from J&K right ???
> 
> hahaahaha you are being funny here  you want me to interrogate SF guy  bad idea  I love my nose
> We are childhood friends we know everything about each other except this. He don't share confidential things which even I don't want him to. He give me generalise info , weapon info tactics info. Even teach me some good tricks.
> 
> Tell some stories of missions which are already published in media. Nothing beyond that. Just I do get info better than media. eg in above incident the sentry on the boat house was taken down by SF sniper at the same movement MARCOS guies get into the boat and shoot guards



Nope i didnt know of this operation.

I am not being funny bro..just try to get some info from him.I am sure you have a better chance than me..I was trying to get info out of an IAF fighter pilot of the rank of a Group Captain..No luck


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nope i didnt know of this operation.
> 
> I am not being funny bro..just try to get some info from him.I am sure you have a better chance than me..I was trying to get info out of an *IAF fighter pilot *


Evenif you get something just be careful in sharing it here  

MARCOS operate around the lakes in J&K with combined teams of RR & SFs. JK service RR guy would be able to tell you about this as they were part of it too.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Evenif you get something just be careful in sharing it here
> 
> MARCOS operate around the lakes in J&K with combined teams of RR & SFs. JK service RR guy would be able to tell you about this as they were part of it too.



The hot zones in Kashmir are somewhere else.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The hot zones in Kashmir are somewhere else.


Old story  when water was HOT
But MARCOS defiantly still operate around watery area and lakes  that's what I know


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Old story  when water was HOT
> But MARCOS defiantly still operate around watery area and lakes  that's what I know



Thats what my earlier point was.The current hot zones are Hafruda forests,Lolab,Kupwara.AFAIK no Marcos are present here.

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## Abingdonboy

> I know that and that is why i love Para.the amount of work they have done is unmatchable.I am really sorry for saying this guys(particularly MARCOS fans) that had the Marcos done even 40% of what Para does..you would be reading it everywhere like the interview they gave after 26/11 operation without killing a single terrorist and while the gunfight was going on..Forget Para even the Army guys wont indulge in this type of behaviour.No wonder you come to know about every single thing they do like Anti-piracy op to small ops in the valley..their contribution to Op Rakshak is close to iota.
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...army-its-special-forces-55.html#ixzz1zmSokEew




Mate I wouldn't be go so far wrt MARCOs- they did what they were told in terms of the press conference. They, no doubt, didn't want to give it. All 3 Indian SOFs are true professionals who like to keep themselves and secretive. 


Also both MARCOs and Garuds operate in J&K alongside PARA (SF). Of course IA SF do most of the "heavy lifting" in the Valley but this is not because the other SOFs are not as able but because the IA SFs are almost 5 times the size of the other SOF units and they have their own responsibilities that need to be filled.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate I wouldn't be go so far wrt MARCOs- they did what they were told in terms of the press conference. They, no doubt, didn't want to give it. All 3 Indian SOFs are true professionals who like to keep themselves and secretive.
> 
> 
> Also both MARCOs and Garuds operate in J&K alongside PARA (SF). Of course IA SF do most of the "heavy lifting" in the Valley but this is not because the other SOFs are not as able but because the IA SFs are almost 5 times the size of the other SOF units and they have their own responsibilities that need to be filled.



Dude,i didnt really know that they were forced to give it.If it is so then its my mistake.

As far as i know theGaruds are not part of any operations.They are present in the valley to protect their bases and radar installations which used to be protected by DSC which stands for Defence Service Corps who are ex Army guys.

Marcos can mostly be found around Wular lake and in some cases go on operations with the SF.

The Para are the ones which are found in Hot Zones in Kashmir.They are attached to RR sectors.I mean we can have 100-120 Marcos attached to 1 RR sector and give these guys some experience.Whats the strength of Marcos in kashmir?..not more than 50 i guess... which is 2.5% of their total stregth.There are 1000 Para commandos in J&K which is 10% of their strength and if i add 2 SF battalions in east which is fighting insurgents there then it will be close to 3000 or 30% of them seeing regular action..and Marcos are not present in N-E.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i didnt really know that they were forced to give it.If it is so then it my mistake.
> 
> As far as i know theGaruds are not part of any operations.They are present in the valley to protect their bases and radar installations which used to be protected by DSC which stands for Defence Service Corps who are ex Army guys.
> 
> Marcos can mostly be found around Wular lake and in some cases go on operations with the SF.
> 
> The Para are the ones which are found in Hot Zones in Kashmir.They are attached to RR sectors.I mean we can have 100-120 Marcos attached to 1 RR sector and give these guys some experience.Whats the strength of Marcos in kashmir?..not more than 50 i guess... which is 2.5% of their total stregth.There are 1000 Para commandos in J&K which is 10% of their strength and if i add 2 SF battalions in east which is fighting insurgents there then it will be close to 3000 or 30% of them seeing regular action..and Marcos are not present in N-E.



Actually serving in JK is a training module for both MARCOs and Garuds and they are attached to IA SF units operating in the Valley. This is for the very purpose of providing these units with combat experience.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Actually serving in JK is a training module for both MARCOs and Garuds and they are attached to IA SF units operating in the Valley. This is for the very purpose of providing these units with combat experience.



Exactly!!It is a training module..and they dont get deployed in the valley for that long too.Hence i ask you..are they getting the required experience that they need to...Specially for a force like Garud

I believe we need to increase the strength of Marcos in Kashmir to a company size posted in Kupwara and the area around plus a similar stength of Marcos needs to be sent to N-E.


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## arcelite

BTW abingdonboy where is visor in 1st pic? plus some more photos :

MANIPUR POLICE (POSSIBLE SWAT)
Google Image Result for http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/00114/ALBERT_INDIA_NAGA_R_114421f.jpg

MEGHALAYA SWAT (Notice 2 M4A1 CQB rifles in pic)
Google Image Result for http://www.northeasttoday.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/gnla-cadres.jpg

BONUS : J&K RIOT POLICE
Google Image Result for http://www.deccanchronicle.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_horizontal/article-images/szvzvzxbvzxbbxcbxbxbc.jpg.crop_display.jpg

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## angeldemon_007

^^^
this thread is about SF and army....don't destroy this thread, there's a separate thread for police

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## pakindia

Abingdonboy said:


> This pic is NSG I'd say:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice find! Tactical/ballisitc shileds and ballaistic visors seen for first time in use with NSG!
> 
> 
> This pic is some SRT/ERT/QRT of AP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you've got any more on NSG we'll take 'em!!



haha, this guys are acting like they will shoot the devotees.....


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## Koovie

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> this thread is about SF and army....don't destroy this thread, there's a separate thread for police



We should rather rename this thread, this thread is full of NSG, MARCOS, Garud, COBRAS, state police forces etc........


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## arcelite

Sorry 1st penalty  <angeldemon>

Pakindia l agree but safety is better than potential sorrow.

Plus new Nsg pics at this link:

Google Image Result for http://lite.epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/BGMIR/2011/08/06/2/Img/Pc0020500.jpg

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i didnt really know that they were forced to give it.If it is so then its my mistake.
> 
> As far as i know theGaruds are not part of any operations.They are present in the valley to protect their bases and radar installations which used to be protected by DSC which stands for Defence Service Corps who are ex Army guys.
> 
> Marcos can mostly be found around Wular lake and in some cases go on operations with the SF.
> 
> The Para are the ones which are found in Hot Zones in Kashmir.They are attached to RR sectors.I mean we can have 100-120 Marcos attached to 1 RR sector and give these guys some experience.Whats the strength of Marcos in kashmir?..not more than 50 i guess... which is 2.5% of their total stregth.There are 1000 Para commandos in J&K which is 10% of their strength and if i add 2 SF battalions in east which is fighting insurgents there then it will be close to 3000 or 30% of them seeing regular action..and Marcos are not present in N-E.


You are missing one major thing. *MARCOS are Marine Commandos*. There speciality is water OPs. They can do SF OPs too but what's need when we have regular SFs and PARAs to do that job ??? Even RR guies are doing great
I think they are POSTED there for experience of lake OPs and rivers. These guies already have their plate full on sea. *Be Proud to know MARCOS is one of the few forces capable of jumping in furious sea with full load of weapons and swim to shore and hold on on their own for 2/3 days* Nobody knows exact strength of MARCOS. But some assumptions are its around 500/600. So 50 means 10%. Good enough  though I do agree with you that overall strength of ALL SFs should be increased 
*and Marcos are not present in N-E*- how you can be so sure ???  I belive otherwise 

I didn't know much about GARUDS. Like to update myself. 

PARAs are doing all sorts of OPs. They should be awarded WORK HORSE status


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## Koovie

Sergi said:


> You are missing one major thing. *MARCOS are Marine Commandos*. There speciality is water OPs. They can do SF OPs too but what need when we have regular SFs and PARAs to do that job ???
> I think they are POSTED there for experience of lake OPs and rivers. These guies already have their plate full on sea. *Be Proud to know MARCOS is one of the few forces capable of jumping in furious sea with full load of weapons and swim to shore and hold on on their own for 2/3 days* *Nobody knows exact strength of MARCOS. But some assumptions are its around 500/600*. So 50 means 10%. Good enough  though I do agree with you that overall strength of ALL SFs should be increased
> *and Marcos are not present in N-E*- how you can be so sure ???  I belive otherwise
> 
> I didn't know much about GARUDS. Like to update myself.
> 
> PARAs are doing all sorts of OPs. They should be awarded WORK HORSE status



ehhmm I think the strength is well over 600 men....
PS Check out the wiki page, finally someone put those VBSS pics out of the MARCOS article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARCOS


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## Sergi

Koovie said:


> ehhmm I think the strength is well over 600 men....
> PS Check out the wiki page, finally someone put those VBSS pics out of the MARCOS article
> MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



You didn't read the page 
Right hand side column clearly said *SIZE:CLASSIFIED* 



Koovie said:


> ehhmm I think the strength is well over 600 men....
> PS Check out the wiki page, finally someone put those VBSS pics out of the MARCOS article
> MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



You didn't read the page 
Right hand side column clearly said *SIZE:CLASSIFIED*


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## david blain

Abindongboy sergi  cant send u message need more then 50 post to do so and i need some favr from you guys


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> You are missing one major thing. *MARCOS are Marine Commandos*. There speciality is water OPs. They can do SF OPs too but what's need when we have regular SFs and PARAs to do that job ??? Even RR guies are doing great
> I think they are POSTED there for experience of lake OPs and rivers. These guies already have their plate full on sea. *Be Proud to know MARCOS is one of the few forces capable of jumping in furious sea with full load of weapons and swim to shore and hold on on their own for 2/3 days* Nobody knows exact strength of MARCOS. But some assumptions are its around 500/600. So 50 means 10%. Good enough  though I do agree with you that overall strength of ALL SFs should be increased
> *and Marcos are not present in N-E*- how you can be so sure ???  I belive otherwise
> 
> I didn't know much about GARUDS. Like to update myself.
> 
> PARAs are doing all sorts of OPs. They should be awarded WORK HORSE status



Sirji..there is no marcos presence in N-E and the strength of Marcos is close to 2000.If they are truely a Special Force then they need to be capable of operating in every environment..Like they were part of the 99 conflict.

You believe that they are part of N-E operations..but thats a belief not a fact.Similarly i know of a lot of ops where Paras were involved but wont share it here as this is not the right place.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sirji..there is no marcos presence in N-E and the strength of Marcos is close to 2000.If they are truely a Special Force then they need to be capable of operating in every environment..Like they were part of the 99 conflict.
> 
> You believe that they are part of N-E operations..but thats a belief not a fact.Similarly i know of a lot of ops where Paras were involved but wont share it here as this is not the right place.


Don't call me Sirji  sergi is fine
I assure you strength of MARCOS isn't in 4 figures BTW it will be in 2/3 years but still will NOT be close to you figure.  even I want 2000 
Yes offcourse SF must be capable of operating in every Environment but they must excel in their own domain
* this is not the right place*
I will agree on only THIS in that statement. Deployment of SF is classified. Only few people in India would be able to tell that apart from SFs themselves.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Don't call me Sirji  sergi is fine
> I assure you strength of MARCOS isn't in 4 figures BTW it will be in 2/3 years but still will NOT be close to you figure.  even I want 2000
> Yes offcourse SF must be capable of operating in every Environment but they must excel in their own domain
> * this is not the right place*
> I will agree on only THIS in that statement. Deployment of SF is classified. Only few people in India would be able to tell that apart from SFs themselves.



How do you know that the strenth is not in 4 figures?


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> How do you know that the strenth is not in 4 figures?


Cause I know 
I can tell you there is proposal cleared to increase MARCOS and SF strength  two years atmost 

We migh see more PARAs in newly forming NE corps. But I can't confirm it. 
So overall SF is growing 

Even NSG is growing we will see triple strength of NSG from Next year


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## Koovie

Sergi said:


> Cause I know
> I can tell you there is proposal cleared to increase MARCOS and SF strength  two years atmost
> 
> We migh see more PARAs in newly forming NE corps. But I can't confirm it.
> So overall SF is growing
> 
> *Even NSG is growing we will see triple strength of NSG from Next year*



So over 30000 NSG commandos?! thats not necessary, MHA should rather improve equipment of existing units +10000 commandos are enough. ANd police forces in almost every state have such forces too now


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## Sergi

Koovie said:


> So over 30000 NSG commandos?! thats not necessary, MHA should rather improve equipment of existing units +10000 commandos are enough. ANd police forces in almost every state have such forces too now


Wow not overall strength 
I was talking about SHOOTER BOYS .


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## Abingdonboy

arcelite said:


> Sorry 1st penalty  <angeldemon>
> 
> Pakindia l agree but safety is better than potential sorrow.
> 
> Plus new Nsg pics at this link:
> 
> Google Image Result for http://lite.epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/BGMIR/2011/08/06/2/Img/Pc0020500.jpg


 
Pic of NSG for you:








Koovie said:


> ehhmm I think the strength is well over 600 men....
> PS Check out the wiki page, finally someone put those VBSS pics out of the MARCOS article
> MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 


Sergi said:


> You didn't read the page
> Right hand side column clearly said *SIZE:CLASSIFIED*
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't read the page
> Right hand side column clearly said *SIZE:CLASSIFIED*



Although the actual strenght is classified 600 is far too small the real number is closer to 2000 and the IN is trying to expand the force to almost double this number.



david blain said:


> Abindongboy sergi  cant send u message need more then 50 post to do so and i need some favr from you guys




Sure mate, how can I help?

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Although the actual strenght is classified 600 is far too small the real number is closer to 2000 and the IN is trying to expand the force to almost double this number.


I am pretty sure about what I write in POST #842.

IN is trying to expand the force to almost double Of CURRENT number.


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> I am pretty sure about what I write in POST #842.
> 
> IN is trying to expand the force to almost double Of CURRENT number.



Right and CURRENT size is ~2000.

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## Koovie

MARCOS or Paras ????????????

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> MARCOS or Paras ????????????



IMHO- PARA (SF)

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> IMHO- PARA (SF)



are they wearing diving suits? I didnt know they are also capable of that


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> are they wearing diving suits? I didnt know they are also capable of that



Yes these look like wet suits and yes IA SF are very much capable of this- diving/water ops are part of their remit.

1.39 for reference:








What I based this on is the weapon sights- for the Tavor the IA are the only operator in India that uses MARS sights. However all other operators of the Tavor- CRPF, DP, MARCOs, Garuds etc all use Mepro Mor Sights.



MARCOs with Mepro Sights:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> are they wearing diving suits? I didnt know they are also capable of that



PARA is a truely all rounder Special Force..The training is such that you will find divers to mountaineers in PARA..BTW these divers are trained by MARCOS.

Abingdonboy

The best reference could be the Dhruv video you recently posted where IA divers were jumping from ALH Dhruv..How could you miss that

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PARA is a truely all rounder Special Force..The training is such that you will find divers to mountaineers in PARA..BTW these divers are trained by MARCOS.
> 
> Abingdonboy
> 
> The best reference could be the Dhruv video you recently posted where IA divers were jumping from ALH Dhruv..How could you miss that



Right! Slipped my mind!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Cause I know
> I can tell you there is proposal cleared to increase MARCOS and SF strength  two years atmost
> 
> We migh see more PARAs in newly forming NE corps. But I can't confirm it.
> So overall SF is growing
> 
> Even NSG is growing we will see triple strength of NSG from Next year



The strength of the Para is going to be increased because of the new Mountain Strike Corps being raised.It will be to counter the Chinese threat and also the insuregeny in N-E.

Regarding MARCOS their strength is close to 2000..The Cream of the crop may be ~ 500 but the actual strength is definitely close to 2000 and they are also going to be expanded maybe because of the Marine brigade being raised.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The strength of the Para is going to be increased because of the new Mountain Strike Corps being raised.It will be to counter the Chinese threat and also the insuregeny in N-E.
> 
> Regarding MARCOS their strength is close to 2000..The Cream of the crop may be ~ 500 but the actual strength is definitely close to 2000 and they are also going to be expanded maybe because of the Marine brigade being raised.


Hey it's all my fault. I should have write clearly sorry  I assume everybody know that 
It's part of every SF. The actual "Cream of the crop" or the "Shooter boys" is 1/3 of the actual strength. If you were talking about the whole MARCOS including training,admin and logistic guies you are right. But if we are talking about the STRICK TEAM I am 100% correct.
Marine Brigade ??? That's new to me. Can you tell anything more ???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Hey it's all my fault. I should have write clearly sorry  I assume everybody know that
> It's part of every SF. The actual "Cream of the crop" or the "Shooter boys" is 1/3 of the actual strength. If you were talking about the whole MARCOS including training,admin and logistic guies you are right. But if we are talking about the STRICK TEAM I am 100% correct.
> Marine Brigade ??? That's new to me. Can you tell anything more ???




India&#39;s Marine Commando Brigade- YouTube

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> India's Marine Commando Brigade- YouTube


Thank you. One more thing can write details of the SF guies story you tell yesterday. Kinda curious


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## david blain

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> India's Marine Commando Brigade- YouTube



bro cant reply you can u give yr email id or FB id ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Thank you. One more thing can write details of the SF guies story you tell yesterday. Kinda curious



Which one?Those 3 guys with RR platoon?


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Which one?Those 3 guys with RR platoon?


Yup. 3 with RR guies


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## Koovie

What happend to this plans??? All I know is that we have the 340 Independent Infantry Brigade for amphibious ops.
However, the most important thing is the tender for 4 assault landing ships. INS Jalashwa is useless due to US restrictions. (I wonder myself y the navy wasted that money........)


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## david blain

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Which one?Those 3 guys with RR platoon?




mail sended


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> India's Marine Commando Brigade- YouTube



hahaha I am sorry but you still belive Shiv ??? He is just a sensation generator 
I will belive YOUR words than His  trust me you have better knowledge than that guy 
I used to follow him regularly. I lost faith in him after MMRCA and when he report about Arjun Mark 2 as fail. I stopped following his news 
Didn't see full video. My 2g connection and I couldn't take him more than 1 min

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## Indian009

Sergi said:


> hahaha I am sorry but you still belive Shiv ??? He is just a sensation generator
> I will belive YOUR words than His  trust me you have better knowledge than that guy
> I used to follow him regularly. I lost faith in him after MMRCA and when he report about Arjun Mark 2 as fail. I stopped following his news
> Didn't see full video. My 2g connection and I couldn't take him more than 1 min


So now you understand what I was saying ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> hahaha I am sorry but you still belive Shiv ??? He is just a sensation generator
> I will belive YOUR words than His  trust me you have better knowledge than that guy
> I used to follow him regularly. I lost faith in him after MMRCA and when he report about Arjun Mark 2 as fail. I stopped following his news
> Didn't see full video. My 2g connection and I couldn't take him more than 1 min



Thanks for the praise but he knows a lot more than me.BTW this exercise took place a few years ago and in future we will have a marine brigade.


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## Sergi

Indian009 said:


> So now you understand what I was saying ?


After a long time Sir. I was waiting you for almost a month. Are you free ? Have something to talk ?
Let's not waist time on Shiv 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thanks for the praise but he knows a lot more than me.BTW this exercise took place a few years ago and in future we will have a marine brigade.


BTW got to go. And it will be off topic if I start telling you how shiv sucks

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> After a long time Sir. I was waiting you for almost a month. Are you free ? Have something to talk ?
> Let's not waist time on Shiv
> 
> 
> BTW got to go. And it will be off topic if I start telling you how shiv sucks




BTW that was the complete story dude...nothing more to add.

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## Abingdonboy

+ There Marine brigade is a very real thing and is being set up as we speak.

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## arcelite

BTW Marcos should maintain a black ops team like SAD.

Google Image Result for http://images.wikia.com/callofduty/images/b/b5/NZAOSopenday.jpg

Give the Pakis sleepless nights.

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> + There Marine brigade is a very real thing and is being set up as we speak.


I am not objecting Marine Brigade  it's a good news. That's why I want to get more info about it .... But not from Shiv 
I will take words of you guies.


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## Koovie

arcelite said:


> BTW Marcos should maintain a black ops team like SAD.
> 
> Google Image Result for http://images.wikia.com/callofduty/images/b/b5/NZAOSopenday.jpg
> 
> Give the Pakis sleepless nights.


It seems to me that MARCOS dont really care about protecting their ID anymore. In recent times, you could see them in public without any masks.

http://www.google.de/imgres?hl=de&b...6&start=28&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:28,i:209

Dont know how to post that pic


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> I am not objecting Marine Brigade  it's a good news. That's why I want to get more info about it .... But not from Shiv
> I will take words of you guies.



Thats all the info available as of now.

Anyways you can read this to know more about the whole thing.



> The navy and army have sent a proposal to the government seeking permission to transport a 5,000-strong armed infantry and special forces troops, tanks and weapons - an independent brigade group (IBG) - on foreign shores for active operations. This capability has both been controversial and strategically provocative.
> 
> It has been learnt that after years of consultations, the army and navy have finally started seeing eye to eye on the modalities required to incrementally build up the capability to deliver a full brigade- strength contingent of troops - including two special forces units - with arms, ammunition, vehicles and weapons outside the Indian mainland.
> 
> "The need to move forces is in keeping with the expanded security focus on India's island territories and the ability to deliver forces expeditiously for humanitarian relief operations," navy spokesperson Commander PVS Satish said.
> 
> While the financial implications of such a capability are being worked out, they will involve integrated expenditure on larger amphibious assault vessels, equipment and joint training.
> 
> The army has an IBG, the 340 Independent Infantry Brigade under Jodhpur- based 12 Corps, for amphibious assault operations.
> 
> It re-raised the 91 Infantry Brigade early last year for amphibious warfare.
> 
> But the navy currently only has the capacity to transport a little less than two battalions on expeditionary missions. The move now is to crank up that capacity more than twice over for a full IBG. Former navy chief Admiral Arun Prakash said it was absolutely essential that the navy built up the capacity to transport a brigade- sized group across the seas. "We have 1,200 island territories. We have energy investments worth thousands of crores far from our shores. We have huge diaspora in the Middle East. If there was a Kargil-like situation on any of our island territories, we would need adequate boots on the ground for combat. There are also other liabilities such as piracy and potential hostage situations.
> 
> Being able to transport a couple of battalions isn't nearly enough," he said.
> 
> Sources said the process to obtain approval from the government began under the previous navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta, currently India's high commissioner to New Zealand.
> 
> The case is said to have been taken up afresh in February this year by the chiefs of staff committee for consideration by the defence minister.
> 
> While formal approval is yet to come, the government has indicated it is in principle inclined to approve the proposal.
> 
> The capability received a cursory mention in an official technology roadmap document published by the defence ministry last month.
> 
> Vice Admiral (retd) Madanjit Singh, navy's former western commander, said: "It is a major capability that the navy is looking at and will necessarily be a joint effort in consultation with the army. Such a capability is useful for operations, humanitarian relief and rescue operations." The Centre and South Block have always been wary about discussing expeditionary capabilities, considering the implications of such operations and India's carefully nurtured image of a country with no belligerent ambitions.
> 
> While the establishment has always guised amphibious capabilities as an imperative for more efficient humanitarian relief operations, there have been several recent signs that assault and combat are very much part of the plan.
> 
> On April 14, a detachment of Indian soldiers conducted a landmark joint amphibious assault exercise with US Marines off the coast of San Diego on board the US Navy's landing vessel, USS New Orleans . In February last year - five months after the South Block formalised India's first joint amphibious warfare doctrine - the three forces conducted the biggest joint landing operation of troops (a battalion of the 91 Infantry Brigade re-raised in 2009 as an amphibious brigade) on Gujarat's Madhavpur beach after departing the navy base at Karwar, south of Goa.
> 
> Leaving little to the imagination, the South Block had announced then that the exercise proved that the forces could conduct "swift and intense conflict during military operations". Apart from being in the market for four- six more large amphibious landing ships to augment the American-built INS Jalashwa inducted almost three years ago, there are other items on order that indicate the desired amphibious assault readiness.
> 
> The most recent was the army's expression of interest in procuring up to 4,000 amphibious assault rifles for the infantry.




Army and navy plan to set up a marine brigade : North, News - India Today

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## Dark Warrior

MARCOS,PARA SF are just boys when compared to the special force under the RAW's SFF Called the Special Group(SG).

BTW can anybody conform the very strong rumors that there are Central Asian(mainly Tajiks and Uzbeks) mercenary commando units in the Special Group(SG).

@ arcelite,Special Group(SG) is Black ops team.

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## Koovie

Dark Warrior said:


> MARCOS,PARA SF are just boys when compared to the special force under the RAW's SFF Called the Special Group(SG).
> 
> *BTW can anybody conform the very strong rumors that there are Central Asian(mainly Tajiks and Uzbeks) mercenary commando units in the Special* Group(SG).
> 
> 
> @ arcelite,Special Group(SG) is Black ops team.




unless there are no RAW operatives on PDF..... nope, no one will confirm you this.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dark Warrior said:


> MARCOS,PARA SF are just boys when compared to the special force under the RAW's SFF Called the Special Group(SG).
> 
> BTW can anybody conform the very strong rumors that there are Central Asian(mainly Tajiks and Uzbeks) mercenary commando units in the Special Group(SG).
> 
> @ arcelite,Special Group(SG) is Black ops team.



Special Group doesnt consist of any foreigers and it consists of Marcos and Para guys only so how can they be boys in front of them when it is relying on them for operatives?

Lastly as per my knowledge SFF and SG are two different things.

Here in this video in the start you can see a SFF officer.

Peacekeepers - YouTube

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## Sergi

Dark Warrior said:


> *MARCOS,PARA SF are just boys when compared to the special force under the RAW's SFF Called the Special Group*


*
How do you reach to your conclusions ???



Koovie said:



unless there are no RAW operatives on PDF..... nope, no one will confirm you this.

Click to expand...


It is said that RAW work through OPERATIVE force and even field agents don't know who the hell these operatives are. 

But it is all said. Nobody knows *


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## Abingdonboy

Dark Warrior said:


> MARCOS,PARA SF are just boys when compared to the special force under the RAW's SFF Called the Special Group(SG).
> 
> BTW can anybody conform the very strong rumors that there are Central Asian(mainly Tajiks and Uzbeks) mercenary commando units in the Special Group(SG).
> 
> @ arcelite,Special Group(SG) is Black ops team.



I haven't heard anything like this but I have trouble beliving SG is made up of foreign "mercenaries". AFAIK SG consits of 100% Indians (not even the Tibtan-origin personal that make up a large propertion of SFF are part of SG) and most of the force is drawn from PARA (SF) and, to a lesser extent, MARCOs (possibly Garuds- I have heard this but cannot confirm as of now). SG are under R&AW's operational control but not made up of SFF as has been the assumption of many given SFF is too under R&AW's operational control.



Koovie said:


> It seems to me that MARCOS dont really care about protecting their ID anymore. In recent times, you could see them in public without any masks.
> 
> Google-Ergebnis für http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4aqMimH-8ak/TvzXippdIkI/AAAAAAAAAgs/hDeHMzIPOD0/s1600/Tavors%2Bof%2BIndian%2BNavy.JPG
> 
> Dont know how to post that pic


 
No- this is not at all true. For one the pic you have posted is NOT of MARCOs but of the newly raised SPB (Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Secondly the identidy protection of MARCOs is well-entrenched in these guys- there is an ethos of going about your buisness without attention and glamour rooted at the heart of these operators and that is not about to change. The fact is the identidy proptection is not to "look cool" or anything but about survival for these guys and their familles when you get down to it and they are strategic assets. Simiarly whilst there is more attention given to PARA (SF) and you can see a lot of pics of these guys with faces uncovered you can see that in most pics where they are on operations they prefer to cover their faces, likewise with Garuds. This is a culture within Indian SOFs and I think I and COLDHEARTED have touched upon this quite a few times.


Sergi said:


> I am not objecting Marine Brigade  it's a good news. That's why I want to get more info about it .... But not from Shiv
> I will take words of you guies.



Fair enough- from what I've heard there is a HUGE amphibious training centre being raised at A&N to be complete by 2020 that will house and train the IN's Marine Birgade. As we know the IN are methodical and intelligent when it comes to long-term vision and procurement plans so as such long term (next 5-15 year period) procurement plans have been drawn up to fully equip this force to be an incredibly potent unit and the more capable such unit in the region, bar none. As such I have heard there are plans to equip these guys with MBTs-the actual MBT that will be purchased is still very much undecided as the IN have, understandably, very little knowledge when it comes to MBTs and are having to rely heavily in IA in this regard, so we can't expect a decision anytime soon plus the fact the IN will probably want to roll-out the force and test them before equipping them with MBTs which will and can be done later. Also recent talk of V-22s for IN has heavily (if not solely) been the result of the raising of the Marine brigade as the requirements is rapid expeditionary missions by this force so the ability to transport serious numbers quickly is key. Also the ongoing procurement of 4-6 LPD/LHD are, of course, directly related to the raising of this Marine Brigade. There are also small-scale, but equally important procurement programs going on wrt the individual kit of the Marines and,thankfully, the IN is being foreward looking in this realm. The MARCOs are already on the hunt for their own FCS separate from IA's F-INSAS and the IN intends to look elsewhere from the F-INSAS for a FCS for the Marine brigade so, things going well, when the Marine brigade come online they should already have a FCS up-and running (similar to but not identical to MARCOs). Equally the IN are looking to procure other systems like ARs, uniforms, helmets etc that will be different to IA. This is about as much as I know right now but it should be fun seeing these guys in action one day!



arcelite said:


> BTW Marcos should maintain a black ops team like SAD.
> 
> Google Image Result for http://images.wikia.com/callofduty/images/b/b5/NZAOSopenday.jpg
> 
> Give the Pakis sleepless nights.




A SAD-like unit is not in the MARCOs' remit as the SAD are part of the CIA so it would be R&AW's remit to raise a unit like this and it has- SG!


+ the guy in the pics isn't SAD he looks like a PD's SWAT guy. SAD aren't about being "tooled-up" but experts ant blending in and knowing the local customs/languages.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> No- this is not at all true. For one the pic you have posted is NOT of MARCOs but of the newly raised SPB (Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Secondly the identidy protection of MARCOs is well-entrenched in these guys- there is an ethos of going about your buisness without attention and glamour rooted at the heart of these operators and that is not about to change. The fact is the identidy proptection is not to "look cool" or anything but about survival for these guys and their familles when you get down to it and they are strategic assets. Simiarly whilst there is more attention given to PARA (SF) and you can see a lot of pics of these guys with faces uncovered you can see that in most pics where they are on operations they prefer to cover their faces, likewise with Garuds. This is a culture within Indian SOFs and I think I and COLDHEARTED have touched upon this quite a few times.
> 
> 
> Fair enough- from what I've heard there is a HUGE amphibious training centre being raised at A&N to be complete by 2020 that will house and train the IN's Marine Birgade. As we know the IN are methodical and intelligent when it comes to long-term vision and procurement plans so as such long term (next 5-15 year period) procurement plans have been drawn up to fully equip this force to be an incredibly potent unit and the more capable such unit in the region, bar none. As such I have heard there are plans to equip these guys with MBTs-the actual MBT that will be purchased is still very much undecided as the IN have, understandably, very little knowledge when it comes to MBTs and are having to rely heavily in IA in this regard, so we can't expect a decision anytime soon plus the fact the IN will probably want to roll-out the force and test them before equipping them with MBTs which will and can be done later. Also recent talk of V-22s for IN has heavily (if not solely) been the result of the raising of the Marine brigade as the requirements is rapid expeditionary missions by this force so the ability to transport serious numbers quickly is key. Also the ongoing procurement of 4-6 LPD/LHD are, of course, directly related to the raising of this Marine Brigade. There are also small-scale, but equally important procurement programs going on wrt the individual kit of the Marines and,thankfully, the IN is being foreward looking in this realm. The MARCOs are already on the hunt for their own FCS separate from IA's F-INSAS and the IN intends to look elsewhere from the F-INSAS for a FCS for the Marine brigade so, things going well, when the Marine brigade come online they should already have a FCS up-and running (similar to but not identical to MARCOs). Equally the IN are looking to procure other systems like ARs, uniforms, helmets etc that will be different to IA. This is about as much as I know right now but it should be fun seeing these guys in action one day!



Buddy,i have doubts if it will be under the complete command of the IN as the IA has commited thousands of it soldiers to this brigade.

I really hope the IN goes on to equip this brigade with heir FCS system and they be equipped like the Marcos because i dont really see the IA getting the F-INSAS anytime soon.The Navy is really headed by smart people who know how to get the work done in the right duration.

Regarding the tanks i guess it will be the IA commiting its main battle tanks to this brigade and i think the brigade will fall under the tri-services command although i really wish it comes under the Navy.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Buddy,i have doubts if it will be under the complete command of the IN as the IA has commited thousands of it soldiers to this brigade.
> 
> I really hope the IN goes on to equip this brigade with heir FCS system and they be equipped like the Marcos because i dont really see the IA getting the F-INSAS anytime soon.The Navy is really headed by smart people who know how to get the work done in the right duration.
> 
> Regarding the tanks i guess it will be the IA commiting its main battle tanks to this brigade and i think the brigade will fall under the tri-services command although i really wish it comes under the Navy.



Mate everything I have said comes from a freind of mine who works for <blank> defence company and is working closely with IN on net-centric technology and has told me such details he is privy to- btw none of this is classified, if it were he wouldn't know anything about it as the MoD/Indian forces do not let outsiders have too much info/clearance. And he told me the Marine brigade being raised was completly separate to the IA amphibious brigades and are being recruited directly by IN and will be commissioned into IN. Similarly any MBTs down the road will be operated by this Marine force and NOT IA. But this is an incredibly ambitious and radical plan that is long term in nature so it isn't going to happen overnight and we will be lucky to see it before 2020.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate everything I have said comes from a freind of mine who works for <blank> defence company and is working closely with IN on net-centric technology and has told me such details he is privy to- btw none of this is classified, if it were he wouldn't know anything about it as the MoD/Indian forces do not let outsiders have too much info/clearance. And he told me the Marine brigade being raised was completly separate to the IA amphibious brigades and are being recruited directly by IN and will be commissioned into IN. Similarly any MBTs down the road will be operated by this Marine force and NOT IA. But this is an incredibly ambitious and radical plan that is long term in nature so it isn't going to happen overnight and we will be lucky to see it before 2020.



Good news 

So no IA soldier or tank will be present + the IA will raise their own Apmhibious brigade...Nice,I think the foundations are getting laid for Indian Marines.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Good news
> 
> So no IA soldier or tank will be present + the IA will raise their own Apmhibious brigade...Nice,I think the foundations are getting laid for Indian Marines.



That seems to be the case!




> the IA will raise their own Apmhibious brigade
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...army-its-special-forces-59.html#ixzz1zxgGW0nt



Did you mean IN? As I'm pretty sure IA will relinquish all amphibious responsibilities to this new force once it is fully operational.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> That seems to be the case!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you mean IN? As I'm pretty sure IA will relinquish all amphibious responsibilities to this new force once it is fully operational.



You are confusing me  Are you saying that the new force will consist of soldiers and tanks from those 2 IA Amphibious brigades or you are saying that new troops will be inducted by the IN and new tanks purchased or do you mean that the those 2 IA brigades will be changed to non-amphibious brigades and the Marine force will take over the Amphibious ops.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

CRPF COBRAs:

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## gubbi

Dark Warrior said:


> MARCOS,PARA SF are just boys when compared to the special force under the RAW's SFF Called the Special Group(SG).
> 
> BTW can anybody conform the very strong rumors that there are Central Asian(mainly Tajiks and Uzbeks) mercenary commando units in the Special Group(SG).
> 
> @ arcelite,Special Group(SG) is Black ops team.



Is this the "Establishment 22"? If so, since this comes under the direct control of a civilian institution (RAW is civilian, no?), can we still consider it SF? Also what exactly is their job profile?

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## Sergi

gubbi said:


> Is this the "Establishment 22"? If so, since this comes under the direct control of a civilian institution (RAW is civilian, no?), can we still consider it SF? Also what exactly is their job profile?



If you want to say CIA/MOSAD civilian institutions YES RAW is civilian 

People can tell you mandate of RAW ummm but no job profile available. wiki can tell you something but no one know for sure.



Abingdonboy said:


> CRPF COBRAs:


Any info about ^^^ their training. These guies look sad  hope they are well trained


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## sexy gun

Sergi said:


> If you want to say CIA/MOSAD civilian institutions *YES RAW is civilian*
> 
> People can tell you mandate of RAW ummm but no job profile available. wiki can tell you something but no one know for sure.
> 
> 
> *Any info about ^^^ their training. These guies look sad  hope they are well trained*



RAW is not civilian. They are external ( IB is civilian u can say ).

And those guys are sad coz they just killed 22 scums in dhantewada(?) a week back..

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## Sergi

sexy gun said:


> *RAW is not civilian*. They are external ( IB is civilian u can say ).



You missed my point


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> If you want to say CIA/MOSAD civilian institutions YES RAW is civilian
> 
> People can tell you mandate of RAW ummm but no job profile available. wiki can tell you something but no one know for sure.
> 
> 
> Any info about ^^^ their training. These guies look sad  hope they are well trained



They are trained in a school in Chattisgarh which is headed by a Brigader of the IA and his team of IA soldiers.Training is similar to what Infantry guys get in CIJWS.

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## KRAIT

Abingdonboy said:


> CRPF COBRAs:


They have no idea what Cobra team is.....meet them once and they will know what is it actually. They work in civilian get up too. And plays a key role in checking ISI's activity and terrorist groups.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

gubbi said:


> Is this the "Establishment 22"? If so, since this comes under the direct control of a civilian institution (RAW is civilian, no?), can we still consider it SF? Also what exactly is their job profile?



Yes it is the Establishment 22 and no one knows about their job profile to be honest and since its operatives are from Navy and Para it cant be called a civil institution.It is basically a special team consisiting of the finest operatives we have for very secret missions.


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## sexy gun

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They are trained in a school in Chattisgarh which is headed by a Brigader of the IA and his team of IA soldiers.Training is similar to what Infantry guys get in CIJWS.



Once in a while, they should be let loose in Chattisgarh jungles


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yes it is the Establishment 22 and no one knows about their job profile to be honest and since its operatives are from Navy and Para it cant be called a civil institution.It is basically a special team consisiting of the finest operatives we have for very secret missions.


ESTABLISHMENT 22 is SFF. 
The curious case of establishment 22 - Hindustan Times

BR has some good info too


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## sexy gun

Sergi said:


> ESTABLISHMENT 22 is SFF.
> The curious case of establishment 22 - Hindustan Times
> 
> *BR has some good info too*



Can u PM me ? or post in visitor messages ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> If you want to say CIA/MOSAD civilian institutions YES RAW is civilian
> 
> People can tell you mandate of RAW ummm but no job profile available. wiki can tell you something but no one know for sure.
> 
> 
> Any info about ^^^ their training. These guies look sad  hope they are well trained



A video which shows their skill:-

INAUGURATION OF TRAIN THE TRAINERS COURSE AT CRPF ACADEMY GURGAON DEMONSTRATION OF ACE SHOOTING - YouTube



Sergi said:


> ESTABLISHMENT 22 is SFF.
> The curious case of establishment 22 - Hindustan Times
> 
> BR has some good info too



I dont think Tibetians are a part of Establishment 22 now.


A IA Major who died in 2003..belonging to Para SF was a part of SG..i forgot his name.A letter was posted somewhere in the net from the Commanding offiver of the SG to his family.

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## Sergi

sexy gun said:


> Can u PM me ? or post in visitor messages ?


I am unable to send you message or visitor message. 10000 posts 

Google "bharat-rakshak +LAND-FORCES+ SFF"


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> A video which shows their skill:-
> 
> INAUGURATION OF TRAIN THE TRAINERS COURSE AT CRPF ACADEMY GURGAON DEMONSTRATION OF ACE SHOOTING - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think Tibetians are a part of Establishment 22 now.
> 
> 
> A IA manjor who died in 2003..belongignt o Para SF was a part of SG..i forgot his name.A letter was posted somewhere in the net from the Commanding offiver of the SG to his family.



Its this gentleman...Major Uday SIngh.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont think Tibetians are a part of Establishment 22 now.



We never know for sure. I am the one who belive SFF and SG are different. And RAW operates SOF too.
Even RAW is belived to have forgine Operatives too. 
But as I said earlier Nobody can confirm anything

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> We never know for sure. I am the one who belive SFF and SG are different. And RAW operates SOF too.
> Even RAW is belived to have forgine Operatives too.
> But as I said earlier Nobody can confirm anything



I can confirm a few things 

SG consists of Para SF and there are no tibetians present in it.They even operate in J&K and here is the confirmation.





Sorry i removed the picture as i think its not right..go and visit his website and you will find several letters from SG.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I can confirm a few things
> 
> SG consists of Para SF and there are no tibetians present in it.They even operate in J&K and here is the confirmation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry i removed the picture as i think its not right..go and visit his website and you will find several letters from SG.


I agree with it ^^^. But it's SG

What I said I belive SG and SFF are different.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> I agree with it ^^^. But it's SG
> 
> What I said I belive SG and SFF are different.



I am pretty much sure that they are different and Para SF are a part of it.We even have one casualty to prove it.We also know that they operate in Kashmir..the only thing left to find out is the Marcos presence and their job profile.


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## arcelite

Security Check Point | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Indian Peacekeeper (2011?)

BTW we need a 24/7 snatch team and that guy IS SAD   .Establishment 22 has NO public face other than that pic 2008ish.....

Notice kneepads


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

arcelite said:


> Establishment 22 has NO public face other than that pic 2008ish.....



That officer died in 2003..How can it be 2008ish pic?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> CRPF COBRAs:



The Cobras have chosen the Woodland variant of Marpat like the SPB of the Navy choosing another version of the Marpat.I think the IA should also get a new camo pattern as soon as possible and i feel this will be the IA version

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## Dark Warrior

@coldhearted aviator,yes SG and SFF are different.As far as I know there are no Tibetans in SG.

There was a guy in the ARC(they conduct joint operations with SG regularly) he reffered to MARCOS & PARA SF as B.tech of SF community & the SG as the M.tech + phd of SF community in India.!

THere are several units in SG all of them except one consist of Indians(drawn from PARA SF & MARCOS.
SFF participated in Kashmir conflict as well as Operations in SL.SG participates in F.I.D & covert ops.

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## Dark Warrior

The need for cental asians in SG was felt in mid 90's when some people realized that you can't conduct spec ops with Indians in NWFP without blowing your identity.
They may recieve higher pay than Indians in SG.

INFO:I can't conform the SG part but it is know that Indira Gandhi wanted to create a unit like MOSSaD's Kidon in RAW but it is not known whether the plans were implemented.Initially when SG were sent to train in Israel many thought they were going to be the Indian version of Kidon.


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## arcelite

WTF I mean this pic ..... Google Image Result for http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DiVuR_gzOOI/T1wZySBqxrI/AAAAAAAAAUs/YJjrEBSv8kg/s1600/SFF.jpg

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## sexy gun

Abbe koi mujhe SG ke barey mein koi link bhejega details ke saath 

Tab se sun raha hun SG SG SG .. yahan kuch pata hi nahin hai uske barey mein

Thanks !!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dark Warrior said:


> @coldhearted aviator,yes SG and SFF are different.As far as I know there are no Tibetans in SG.
> 
> There was a guy in the ARC(they conduct joint operations with SG regularly) he reffered to MARCOS & PARA SF as B.tech of SF community & the SG as the M.tech + phd of SF community in India.!
> 
> THere are several units in SG all of them except one consist of Indians(drawn from PARA SF & MARCOS.
> SFF participated in Kashmir conflict as well as Operations in SL.SG participates in F.I.D & covert ops.




Obviously when the best of the best are drawn from Para and Marcos then it will be better than the regulars they left behind and manage to get selected in SG.

What is ARC?(There are several abbreviations)



Dark Warrior said:


> The need for cental asian mercenaries in SG was felt in mid 90's when some people realized that you can't conduct spec ops in NWFP without blowing your identity.
> They may recieve higher pay than Indians in SG.
> 
> INFO:I can't conform the SG part but it is know that Indira Gandhi wanted to create a unit like MOSSaD's Kidon in RAW but it is not known whehttp://www.defence.pk/forums/images/smilies/cute/woot.gifther the plans were implemented.Initially when SG were sent to train in Israel many thought they were going to be the Indian version of Kidon.



Dude,you are trying to say that the SG is involved in NWFP? I mean.. 


I am not saying this is not possible but being involved in NWFP means we have been involved in a lot of dirty things. 

If and i say again *If* this is true then i can only imagine what our base in Tajikistan is upto.



sexy gun said:


> Abbe koi mujhe SG ke barey mein koi link bhejega details ke saath
> 
> Tab se sun raha hun SG SG SG .. yahan kuch pata hi nahin hai uske barey mein
> 
> Thanks !!



Dekh bhai,SG ek aiysa group he India ka jisme India ki top SF ke top operatives shamil hote hein.Yeh India ki sabse secretive force hein aur yeh aiyse operations karti hein jinke bare mein ek aam admi ko kabhi kuch nahi pata chalega.Inki uniform,weapons,tactis,training,headquaters infact existence k bare mein hi kisi ko kuch nahi pata..In short it is the collection of the best SF operatives in India and undoubtedly the most elite unit in India.


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## Dark Warrior

Dear Coldhearted Aviator
I never said we are involved in NwFP now,I simple don't have access to very highly placed sources with such info even if we were involved but spec ops in NWFP will be neccessary in case of war with Pakistan hence the central asians.

ARC STANDS FOR Aviation Research Center,they do much more than recoinassance and SIGINT/ELINT/COMINT which is geberally what thepublic think is their only activities.


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## Dark Warrior

Some more info which is already in public domain(many of may already know this)

Directore of Security(DGS) units were the first to taste war in 1971.

Note: ARC is also under DGS.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dark Warrior said:


> Dear Coldhearted Aviator
> I never said we are involved in NwFP now,I simple don't have access to very highly placed sources with such info even if were involved but spec ops in NWFP will be neccessary in case of war with Pakistan hence the central asians.
> 
> ARC STANDS FOR Aviation Research Center,they do much more than recoinassance and SIGINT/ELINT/COMINT.



ARC also stands for Active Response Corps,Army Reconnaissance Corps,Army Reserve Command..so i was confused.

So you are saying that Central Asians are recruited just in case we might need them?...But buddy..The Para SF are taught various Pakistani languages for this very purpose only so why would we be hiring unreliable mercenaries and Indians and Pakistani alsmost look the same only.Thanks to our large country that we have a large no of people from various ethnic backgrounds who can be sent for under cover ops anywhere.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS







The second pic is of Marcos in Kashmir.It is a 3 year old pic.You can see that most of them grow beard for undercover ops and a RR guy is also standing with them which makes me feel that they go on joint ops with RR.

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## Dark Warrior

The ARC's which you are taking about don't have much to do with the SG.
Your second question was asked by people in DGS too.It is relatively easy to conduct spec ops in Pakistan Punjab & Sindh it's very tough for Indians from any state to conduct ops in NWFP due the vast ethnic differences merely learning the language is not enough.The Spetsnaz used Tajik and Uzbeks extensivey to penetrate Mujahideen lines and operate there for weeks.

Coldhearted aviator,Abingdonboy as both of you know about PARA SF ops in J&K you must have heard about the ISI trained Afghan mercenaries who surrendered to us in late 1997 and worked with us to neutralize several LeT and ISI modules.ISI stopped sending Afghans after that.

P.S. The foreigners in SG are as dedicated to their missions as anybody else.

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## Dark Warrior

I forgot to add that the most imp.need for foreigners in SG are because even if your operative is compromised(like taken PoW) your enemies will have a very tough time finding out who send him.

P.S SG operates in very small teams.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dark Warrior said:


> The ARC's which you are taking about don't have much to do with the SG.
> Your second question was asked by people in DGS too.It is relatively easy to conduct spec ops in Pakistan Punjab & Sindh it's very tough for Indians from any state to conduct ops in NWFP due the vast ethnic differences merely learning the language is not enough.The Spetsnaz used Tajik and Uzbeks extensivey to penetrate Mujahideen lines and operate there for weeks.
> 
> Coldhearted aviator,Abingdonboy as both of you know about PARA SF ops in J&K you must have heard about the ISI trained Afghan mercenaries who surrendered to us in late 1997 and worked with us to neutralize several LeT and ISI modules.ISI stopped sending Afghans after that.
> 
> P.S. The foreigners in SG are as dedicated to their missions as anybody else.



Afghan mercenaries stopped comming after 2001 incident.A close relative of mine has gone on a 1 on 1 firefight with a Afghani mercenary sometime in 99..He managed to kill him after a short 1 on 1 close quater battle.The Afghan guy was 6'3" and very well built.

Those days Afghan mercenaries were the SF of the bad guys.While the Kashmiris used to open fire from a safe distance so that they can escape easily..the Afghanis used to come as close to you as possible before opening fire..and it turned out to be a bloody affair for both sides in the end but thats how they were trained.

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## Dark Warrior

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Afghan mercenaries stopped comming after 2001 incident.


He may have been a local from FATA or an AFghan refugee from Pakistan.They look the same after all.
The Afghans were naturally the toughest as they had the vast experience of fighting the Soviets in 80's
There were several pashtuns involved in Kargil as well.They were speaking pashto and RAW had to hire Afghan people in Delhi to translate.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dark Warrior said:


> He may have been a local from FATA or an AFghan refugee from Pakistan.They look the same after all.
> The Afghans were naturally the toughest as they had the vast experience of fighting the Soviets in 80's
> There were several pashtuns involved in Kargil as well.They were speaking pashto and RAW had to hire Afghan people in Delhi to translate.



IA has gunned down several Afghans who had fought against the soviets..I am talking about one among them,


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MARCOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second pic is of Marcos in Kashmir.It is a 3 year old pic.You can see that most of them grow beard for undercover ops and a RR guy is also standing with them which makes me feel that they go on joint ops with RR.




Cool- I've never seen that first pic of MARCOs before!


+ wrt SG- like I have said before I don't personally believe there are foriengers in SG- maybe SFF but not SG. From what I've heard SG is 100% Indian SOFs (mostly PARA (SF) but with elements of IAF and IN SOFs too in the mix).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Cool- I've never seen that first pic of MARCOs before!
> 
> 
> + wrt SG- like I have said before I don't personally believe there are foriengers in SG- maybe SFF but not SG. From what I've heard SG is 100% Indian SOFs (mostly PARA (SF) but with elements of IAF and IN SOFs too in the mix).



Thats what i believed but i am very confused right now. 

If this is so then there is a lot that we dont know is happening..I mean we would be ahead of even ISI in this.

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## Abingdonboy

^^ I think in terms of professionalism and resources R&AW is far ahead of the ISI and most intel agencies in the region. The ISI strengths are they are literally willing to do anything to complete their objectives ie allying themselves with the sum of the earth, and the fact because the PA is so ridiculously powerful in Pakistan the ISI are given a free hand to do whatever they like whereas in most nations (like India) intel agencies have civilian masters to answer to and so are restrained in many ways and "put on a leash". In technical abilities ie hacking, SIGNIT/ELNIT, electronic surveillance etc R&AW has the clear edge.

+ whether intentally or not GoI are the masters of disinformation!!!

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## MUHARIB

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thats what i believed but i am very confused right now.
> 
> If this is so then there is a lot that we dont know is happening..I mean we would be ahead of even ISI in this.



True that. But IA giving central Asian mercenaries high level ultra advanced training and tactics...I dunno if thats really a good thing.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MUHARIB said:


> True that. But IA giving central Asian mercenaries high level ultra advanced training and tactics...I dunno if thats really a good thing.



Dude,i am very confused on this but i can say that if this is true then these guys would be very reliable coz the Indian intellegince agencies have some really smart guys..Who knows these mercenaries are under constant watch and any suspicious behaviour and they are killed...

LOL i am just assuming this..i really dont have any idea about SG...


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## KRAIT

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^ I think in terms of professionalism and resources R&AW is far ahead of the ISI and most intel agencies in the region. The ISI strengths are they are literally willing to do anything to complete their objectives ie allying themselves with the sum of the earth, and the fact because the PA is so ridiculously powerful in Pakistan the ISI are given a free hand to do whatever they like whereas in most nations (like India) intel agencies have civilian masters to answer to and so are restrained in many ways and "put on a leash". In technical abilities ie hacking, SIGNIT/ELNIT, electronic surveillance etc R&AW has the clear edge.
> 
> + whether intentally or not GoI are the masters of disinformation!!!


R&AW always remind me of one line from the Movie- Usual Suspects

*Greater trick ever played by Devil is that he doesn't exist* 

R&AW still remains one of the most coveted agencies in the world.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

10 Para : An Added Edge










> The Commandoes of 10 Para (Special Forces) are second to none in the world. The battalion was raised on June 1, 1967 under Lt Col NS Utthaya. This elite unit of our Army has not only excelled during war but also during peace-time. During the 1971 Indo-Pak war, the unit, then designated as &#8216;10 Para Commando&#8217;, carried out a daring 80 km-deep raid inside Pakistan&#8217;s territory on the Indus Rangers HQ at Chachro (Sind). The battalion carried out many other vehicle-borne raids during the 1971 war. These raids could only be compared with the raids by the famed British &#8216;SAS&#8217; in the deserts of North Africa during World War II. The destruction caused by these raids paved the way for Indian forces to deepen their operations inside enemy territory, leading to the capture of large chunks of enemy territory. For this unparalleled gallantry, the unit was awarded Battle Honour Chachro and Theatre Honour Sind. For his courageous leadership, military acumen and foresightedness, the CO of this daredevil unit was awarded Maha Vir Chakra. In adition, the unit also earned two Vir Chakra, three Sena Medals and one Mention-in Despatches. The tally so far includes one Maha Vir Chakra, two Kirti Chakra, eight Vir Chakra, three Shaurya Chakra, two Vishisht Seva Medals, 42 Sena Medals five Mentions-in-Despatches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The unit earned laurels for the country and covered itself with glory in the professional competitions in the international arena, as well. In the Exercise Airborne Africa, an international competition for Special Forces, was held in Botswana in 2002 wherein 28 teams including troops from USA, Britain, France, South Africa, Malaysia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Senegal etc took part. The 10 Para (Special Forces) was declared Overall Winners and it also annexed second position. The commendable performance of the teams of 10 Para was lauded by the Special Forces fraternity the world over.
> 
> Since 1971, the unit has participated in all the military operations undertaken by the Indian Army including operations Pawan in Sri Lanka, Rakshak in J&K, Meghdoot in Siachen and Orchid in North East. The unit earned Theatre Honour Kargil for the gallantry displayed during the recent operation Vijay in Kargil. The battalion added another feather to its cap by earning the Chief of the Army Staff Unit Citation on Army Day last year for their performance in counter-terrorist operations in Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> This year &#8216;Chachro Day&#8217; celebrations were very special as Brig Sawai Bhawani Singh (Retd) himself was present on the occasion. He earned the gonly Mahavir Chakra for the unit during 1971 war. A large number of ex-service of the unit and their families joined the celebrations. A thrilling sky diving and parachute jump display in selected &#8216;dropping zone&#8217;, a wreath-laying at the unit war memorial, a special sainik sammelan and a barakhana were the highlights of the 34th Chachro Day celebrations.










http://mod.nic.in/samachar/feb15-06/h8.htm

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i am very confused on this but i can say that if this is true then these guys would be very reliable coz the Indian intellegince agencies have some really smart guys..Who knows these mercenaries are under constant watch and any suspicious behaviour and they are killed...
> 
> LOL i am just assuming this..i really dont have any idea about SG...


Small teams with two Operators watching over. No linking between two teams. Only Hit missions if needed. No delivery or rescue missions.



KRAIT said:


> R&AW always remind me of one line from the Movie- Usual Suspects
> 
> *Greater trick ever played by Devil is that he doesn't exist*
> 
> R&AW still remains one of the most coveted agencies in the world.


That's the Rule of the Game here

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## Sergi

MUHARIB said:


> True that. But IA giving central Asian mercenaries high level ultra advanced training and tactics...I dunno if thats really a good thing.



In very Very small number and in well spread area. These guies do this thing for money. If not for us then for others. It is always good to have assets in such areas where you need to keep your indirect hold. It's just Business. 

CIA operates Mercenaries all over the world. If some experts are to be belived some of our Scientist didn't die in accidents. Sad but dirty truth


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## MUHARIB

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i am very confused on this but i can say that if this is true then these guys would be very reliable coz the Indian intellegince agencies have some really smart guys..Who knows these mercenaries are under constant watch and any suspicious behaviour and they are killed...
> 
> LOL i am just assuming this..i really dont have any idea about SG...



But Yeah they will be very useful unless or until somebody decides go join the opp side for a better pay...Anyways wat i am assuming is these Afghan mercs wont be given the same training as Indian teams. They would be given mostly sub standard training than Indian SF teams. They ll probably be used has small proxies to do our dirty work. They ll be probably used to act has rebels or insurgents etc in central asia. They might just an force multiplier asset for Indian SFs. This is just my assumption.



Sergi said:


> In very Very small number and in well spread area. These guies do this thing for money. If not for us then for others. It is always good to have assets in such areas where you need to keep your indirect hold. It's just Business.
> 
> CIA operates Mercenaries all over the world. If some experts are to be belived some of our Scientist didn't die in accidents. Sad but dirty truth



LOL thats what i just assumed.  So am right.


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## Sergi

MUHARIB said:


> But Yeah they will be very useful unless or until somebody decides go join the opp side for a better pay...Anyways wat i am assuming is these Afghan mercs wont be given the same training as Indian teams. They would be given mostly sub standard training than Indian SF teams. They ll probably be used has small proxies to do our dirty work. They ll be probably used to act has rebels or insurgents etc in central asia. They might just an force multiplier asset for Indian SFs. This is just my assumption.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL thats what i just assumed.  So am right.


I wasn't taking about ONLY Afgan Mereenaries. We have got variety there around whole map of Asia 
Yes they can choose Opposite side but they aren't let unattained and we don't need them for day to day business. If a SF can do the job, then these guies aren't involved in OP at all. 
As far as their training is concerned I don't think that would be much as these guies are well prepared in their own profession. Some fine touchs and weapons. That's all. 

These guies are stand alone assets. No joint OPs. They are only used to hit and run OPs

*Something interesting to read in you want to know how dirty the game can become*:
http://interestingnewsfromallover.blogspot.in/2010/05/mystery-death-of-two-indian-nuclear.html

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## david blain

^^^ IF all that u are talking is true then why the hell *DAWOOD* is stil alive ?


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## Sergi

david blain said:


> ^^^ IF all that u are talking is true then why the hell *DAWOOD* is stil alive ?


 
He is in ISI's protection plus his own Men. And you can't take on Army guies in the centre of City with handfull of Merc. If any one of them caugh alive and talk about OP then you know what will be the result.

Taking down Dawood will be difficult but won't be impossible. What we lack is a political will. And not the asset or resources.

BTW I never claim anything True. I am just sharing what I collect from various sources. It's upto you to belive or not. We live in information era. Information is a weapon

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> He is in ISI's protection plus his own Men. And you can't take on Army guies in the centre of City with handfull of Merc. If any one of them caugh alive and talk about OP then you know what will be the result.
> 
> Taking down Dawood will be difficult but won't be impossible. What we lack is a political will. And not the asset or resources.
> 
> BTW I never claim anything True. I am just sharing what I collect from various sources. It's upto you to belive or not. We live in information era. Information is a weapon



Dawood would have been an easy kill for these mercenaries.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dawood would have been an easy kill for these mercenaries.


 
Can you explain how ???


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## david blain

Sergi said:


> He is in ISI's protection plus his own Men. And you can't take on Army guies in the centre of City with handfull of Merc. If any one of them caugh alive and talk about OP then you know what will be the result.
> 
> Taking down Dawood will be difficult but won't be impossible. What we lack is a political will. And not the asset or resources.
> 
> BTW I never claim anything True. I am just sharing what I collect from various sources. It's upto you to belive or not. We live in information era. Information is a weapon




i guess lake of politicle will else considering the situation rite now in pakistan no one is safe .....



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dawood would have been an easy kill for these mercenaries.



Exactly ....



Sergi said:


> He is in ISI's protection plus his own Men. And you can't take on Army guies in the centre of City with handfull of Merc. If any one of them caugh alive and talk about OP then you know what will be the result.
> 
> Taking down Dawood will be difficult but won't be impossible. What we lack is a political will. And not the asset or resources.
> 
> BTW I never claim anything True. I am just sharing what I collect from various sources. It's upto you to belive or not. We live in information era. Information is a weapon



true or false thanks for the info actually i got an organisation from which i can get my protagonist for my novel 



Sergi said:


> Can you explain how ???



operation gerenemo


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## Sergi

david blain said:


> i guess lake of politicle will else considering the situation rite now in pakistan no one is safe .....
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly ....


DAWOOD is a big asset for ISI. His network in India can do a lot of things. So keeping him alive is priority. 
Last report of GOI about him mention he live in a ISI safe house guarded by special forces (may be SSG)
And we get the idea of ISI safe house from OBL raid. So he isn't sitting duck. 

In Pakistan no one is safe - its just for common man


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Can you explain how ???



This international unit of SG comprising of Mercenaries from Central Asian countries could easily kill a drug lord..if not then they are good for nothing...I mean what would it take to get a guy killed even after knowing his adress..even a sniper can take him out..Its too easy kill for a Spec Ops Unit.

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## david blain

Sergi said:


> DAWOOD is a big asset for ISI. His network in India can do a lot of things. So keeping him alive is priority.
> Last report of GOI about him mention he live in a ISI safe house guarded by special forces (may be SSG)
> And we get the idea of ISI safe house from OBL raid. So he isn't sitting duck.
> 
> In Pakistan no one is safe - its just for common man




Hmm lets make this asset in to liability first and then kill What say ...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> *In the early 1980s, the Special Group was raised as the r&aw's equivalent to the cia's Special Activities Division and given a mandate for cross-border operations. The force is believed to have carried out a few classified missions before falling into disuse. However, most 'snatch and grab' operations have been restricted to borders in counter-terrorist operations in J&K and the Northeast.*




India's scattered special forces to combat terror : NATION - India Today


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## david blain

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This international unit of SG comprising of Mercenaries from Central Asian countries could easily kill a drug lord..if not then they are good for nothing...I mean what would it take to get a guy killed even after knowing his adress..even a sniper can take him out..Its too easy kill for a Spec Ops Unit.



totally agree if they cant kill then the risk of forming this unit is not worth...


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This international unit of SG comprising of Mercenaries from Central Asian countries could easily kill a drug lord..if not then they are good for nothing...I mean what would it take to get a guy killed even after knowing his adress..even a sniper can take him out..Its too easy kill for a Spec Ops Unit.



Sniper issue is closed when you say safe house. It would have been already considered by ISI 
Mercenaries can kill a drug lord. No doubt. But can they run over a safe house all by themselves when 15/20 commandos guarding it. Forget the personal gaurds. And from a place where backup and reinforcement for them is few min aways ???
It will be a suicide mission. 
If one has to take such target one need to Wait and watch. And trap the opportunity when came out. Be first and foremost thing we need political go



david blain said:


> Hmm lets make this asset in to liability first and then kill What say ...


The moment he become liability they will kill him themself


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

This all mercenary thing is not true.After spending hours on the net searching i have found these pieces of documents which says *that there is only 1 Special Group of the SFF and it is called the Vikas Unit* of which Major Uday Singh was a part...hence there are no 3-4 units having international mercenaries.

It also says that Army is heavily involved if you are capable of reading in between the lines.


http://aftdelhi.nic.in/benches/prin...il2012/Hav Kareppa Sanak & Ors _OA 454_11.pdf


Start reading from point no. 3.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> India's scattered special forces to combat terror : NATION - India Today


I know a One OP long away from Indian boarder where IA SF extracted a VVIP package from enemy territory and take it to safe place before airlifting it to INDIA. Mercenary forces where used to divert the attention from this activity which gave SF time window for extraction. 
I can't write the name of enemy or package. But this happen in 2008. And OP wasn't near any of Indian boarder. This will be enough for guess


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Now enough with this halucination..Lets carry on with IA and its SF discussions.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Now enough with this *halucination*..Lets carry on with IA and its SF discussions.


...... Thank you won't write about it


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## Classof90

Awesome pics 

And just a question,has the Spetsnaz ever trained Indian special forces??

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> ...... Thank you won't write about it



Dude,i was talking in general and it wasnt particularly against you.

The Special group only consits of Vikas Unit which comprises of Indian Army Para SF as has been proved by me through that link of 
"legal papers" which cannot be proved wrong.

It mentions several time..Special Group ie Vikas Unit..and we alll know vikas unit has only indians in it and it is also clearly mentioned that Special group is the only Special Force of SFF.

I think it is a great find  and it solves a lot of doubts from my mind atleast.

I am really sorry if i have hurt you or anyone but i take this SF discussions seriously and i think i wasted the entire day imagining things which werent.

I request people to kindly not post things which cant be backed...Faltu k sapne dikha diye 



Classof90 said:


> Awesome pics
> 
> And just a question,has the Spetsnaz ever trained Indian special forces??



We are glad that you liked our SFs..Nope Indian SF has never trained with Spetsnaz.Although we have trained with Russian Airborne forces.

Indian Special Forces Commandos. - YouTube

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i was talking in general and *it was particularly against you*.
> 
> The Special group only consits of Vikas Unit which comprises of Indian Army Para SF as has been proved by me through that link of
> "legal papers" which cannot be proved wrong.
> 
> It mentions several time..Special Group ie Vikas Unit..and we alll know vikas unit has only indians in it and it is also clearly mentioned that Special group is the only Special Force of SFF.
> 
> I think it is a great find  and it solves a lot of doubts from my mind atleast.
> 
> I am really sorry if i have hurt you or anyone but i take this SF discussions seriously and i think i wasted the entire day imagining things which werent.
> 
> I request people to kindly not post things which cant be backed...Faltu k sapne dikha diye


Yes I get that. That why I write that 
BTW your find justify the existance of SG of SFF. but where did it deny the things you mention as hallucination. 

Anyways I know it is hard to belive someone talking about something you never see or never will see and can't prove. 
in the above mention OP, I heard from SF officer - part of the OP and I have seen the pic of that VVIP with his team. But I can't prove this things to you. So let it be a lie. still I have no reason to brag about anything on PDF to fellow Indian


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Yes I get that. That why I write that
> BTW your find justify the existance of SG of SFF. but where did it deny the things you mention as hallucination.
> 
> Anyways I know it is hard to belive someone talking about something you never see or never will see and can't prove.
> in the above mention OP, I heard from SF officer - part of the OP and I have seen the pic of that VVIP with his team. But I can't prove this things to you. So let it be a lie. still I have no reason to brag about anything on PDF to fellow Indian




*I am really sorry but i meant it wasnt for you...spelling mistake*
Dude,i am not saying that you are lying..I am saying maybe you got confused.

The pieces of legal documents i just gave the link of clearly states everywhere the following words together.."Special group ie Vikas Unit"..I hope you know that in legal documents even a comma has a meaning and we are talking of * ie(that is)* here..which clearly mentions there is only 1 SG unit which is Vikas Unit..Now if there is only 1 unit ie Vikas unit where are the mercenaries?..We all know that Indian SOF operators dont work with mercenaries...and it was also stated that SFF has only SG ie Vikas unit...which says a lot of things.Even the ranks mentioned in the legal documents belong to the Army only..which means either only Para SF is involved or the Marcos didnt have a payment issue.

I think there might be some other unit having mercenaries which you are talking about..Its hard for me to believe that India's most secretive unit having the best operatives would rely on hired mercenaries.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Yes I get that. That why I write that
> BTW your find justify the existance of SG of SFF. but where did it deny the things you mention as hallucination.
> 
> Anyways I know it is hard to belive someone talking about something you never see or never will see and can't prove.
> in the above mention OP, I heard from SF officer - part of the OP and I have seen the pic of that VVIP with his team. But I can't prove this things to you. So let it be a lie. still I have no reason to brag about anything on PDF to fellow Indian



Kindly post the stories you are talking of in detail..That way the thread will become interesting..Now i know why people used to ask me to write stories.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Double post.


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## Abingdonboy

I have read through the posts and done quite a bit of my own research and the only real conclusion I can come to is that there are no mercs in SG but foreign merc in SFF which comprises a cast array of different units. If you look into SFF you will see that SFF is not one uniformed standardized unit, instead it is more a amalgamation of different units with a huge range of specialties from CT, espionage, counter-espionage, intel gathering etc and could more than likely be comprised of foreign mercs. Whilst the unit named SG comprises a number of units such as support staff but the "shooters" are 100% Indian SOFs, there is no doubt in my mind of this. SG can be (to an extent) compared to Delta Force (or Army Compartmented Elements (ACE) as it is now called) as ACE does actually function 100% under the command of CIA although CIA has the SAD (simiarly R&AW has SFF). 



+ on a side note I have written on PDF about an encounter of mine when I was last in India involving and IA SF guy who I am now convinced was SG (of course he didn't even confirm this at all and was reluctant to even admit he was part of the Indian military in any way).




++ Anyone who says we shouldn't trust the foreign mercs is being a bit ignorant- it is not about trust but utility. R&AW obviously see utility in keeping some of these guys around and I trust their judgement and am sure these guys aren't kept too well clued up wrt intel and do what they are told so there is little risk of national secruty breach.

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## Dark Warrior

Legal papers to prove existence of SG units!;lol:
RAW itself was not created through a legal mechanism.
Anyways it's up to you to be believe this.

@Dawood part-niether India nor pakistan has gone to the extent of sending assasins in other nations and its not as easy as you think.In order to carry out such ops you need POLITICALWILL.


They are much more reliable than the ltte and mukti guys we trained.some have fought for the soviets during 80's

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## david blain

Sergi said:


> Yes I get that. That why I write that
> BTW your find justify the existance of SG of SFF. but where did it deny the things you mention as hallucination.
> 
> Anyways I know it is hard to belive someone talking about something you never see or never will see and can't prove.
> in the above mention OP, I heard from SF officer - part of the OP and I have seen the pic of that VVIP with his team. But I can't prove this things to you. So let it be a lie. still I have no reason to brag about anything on PDF to fellow Indian




ser gi can u send detail in my message or mail please ......


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## david blain

Sergi said:


> I know a One OP long away from Indian boarder where IA SF extracted a VVIP package from enemy territory and take it to safe place before airlifting it to INDIA. Mercenary forces where used to divert the attention from this activity which gave SF time window for extraction.
> I can't write the name of enemy or package. But this happen in 2008. And OP wasn't near any of Indian boarder. This will be enough for guess



It must be after 26/11 i guess


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## Sergi

david blain said:


> ser gi can u send detail in my message or mail please ......


 


david blain said:


> It must be after 26/11 i guess


That's the problem dude. I can't write the details. I write the only things that I can write without giving away important details. 
The mentioned OP wasn't related to 26/11.



Dark Warrior said:


> Legal papers to prove existence of SG units!;lol:
> RAW itself was not created through a legal mechanism.
> Anyways it's up to you to be believe this.
> 
> @Dawood part-niether India nor pakistan has gone to the extent of sending assasins in other nations and its not as easy as you think.In order to carry out such ops you need POLITICALWILL.
> 
> 
> They are much more reliable than the ltte and mukti guys we trained.some have fought for the soviets during 80's


Exactly 90% RAW findings are unaudited. It's a good explanation why ???

Pakistan has send assassins 4/5 times in India to hit political targets. They failed everytime. ( it's what IB says )


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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> I have read through the posts and done quite a bit of my own research and the only real conclusion I can come to is that there are no mercs in SG but foreign merc in SFF which comprises a cast array of different units. If you look into SFF you will see that SFF is not one uniformed standardized unit, instead it is more a amalgamation of different units with a huge range of specialties from CT, espionage, counter-espionage, intel gathering etc and could more than likely be comprised of foreign mercs. Whilst the unit named SG comprises a number of units such as support staff but the "shooters" are 100% Indian SOFs, there is no doubt in my mind of this. SG can be (to an extent) compared to Delta Force (or Army Compartmented Elements (ACE) as it is now called) as ACE does actually function 100% under the command of CIA although CIA has the SAD (simiarly R&AW has SFF).
> 
> 
> 
> + on a side note I have written on PDF about an encounter of mine when I was last in India involving and IA SF guy who I am now convinced was SG (of course he didn't even confirm this at all and was reluctant to even admit he was part of the Indian military in any way).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ++ Anyone who says we shouldn't trust the foreign mercs is being a bit ignorant- it is not about trust but utility. R&AW obviously see utility in keeping some of these guys around and I trust their judgement and am sure these guys aren't kept too well clued up wrt intel and do what they are told so there is little risk of national secruty breach.



I think we are stuck in LABLEING things that may be the problem here. 
What I understand RAW can use any asset in India. Be it IA/IN/IAF. 
SFF is directly under RAW. SG is IA element attached to SFF. I think everybody agree till here. 

I think I clearly mention two terms in my previous posts. " Operators" and "operatives"
Operators are SG guies - IA guies
Operatives are local area assets - in warlord countries these are Mercenaries and in civilised world these are sleeping modules. 
These Operative units are very small and have only one way communication through their OPERATORS. 
So we can't label them as SG. But the operators who handle these units are SG guies. So may be they are considered as part of SG

Last thing and repeating it again. Any job that SF can do by itself is done by SF only. Operatives are for Hit and Run mission. 

I don't think any nation will accept legally that they Operate Mercenaries. It's against golden rule. But they have to do this dirty game.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *I am really sorry but i meant it wasnt for you...spelling mistake*
> Dude,i am not saying that you are lying..I am saying maybe you got confused.


You don't need to be sorry my friend. It's normal that we need facts to belive something 

I tried to explain above ^^^ what I understand. 
But seriously, will any force make a documentation that they operate Mercenaries  these guies are barbarians. to kill is their profession sometimes for money. How you gona justify such operations to civilised world who belive in Human Rights ???

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## Sergi

Classof90 said:


> Awesome pics
> 
> And just a question,has the Spetsnaz ever trained Indian special forces??


If you mean this
WAFF | World's Armed Forces Forum: Indian Army SF and Russian Spetsnaz to Hold Joint Ex.

I have seen "retired Russian Commandos" in Maharashtras Force One training. Photo was published in local daily "Maharashtra Times" after 26/11. But force one is police force and not SF


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> India's *most secretive unit having the best operatives* would rely on hired mercenaries.


I can give you one recent example. Iranian nuclear scientist's assassination. Israel/USA has best of best. Did they do it themselves ???
It were Iranian Operatives/mercenaries. 
It is impossible for US/Israel citizen tobe inside Iran for covert OPs due to obivious reasons


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## arcelite

Were comparing a Terrorist Front to our intelligence agency.....<_>

Google Image Result for http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/reuters/2012-07-07t135946z_1301960731_gm1e8771oob01_rtrmadp_3_kashmir.jpg

Google Image Result for http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iRk91RhpBW0/T2AIBWCUOSI/AAAAAAAAJ-s/RGUnaeo7uXc/s1600/Army%2BUnited%2BStates%2BIndia%2Bheld%2Bcode%2B2012%2BYudh%2BAbhyas%2Bprepare%2Bfor%2Bwar%2Bjoint%2Bmilitary%2Bexercises%2Bexperience%2Band%2Bskil

Google Image Result for http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KJdEvZBj_vY/T2AIX-Vp9jI/AAAAAAAAKAM/X6JfUGTN4h4/s1600/Army%2BUnited%2BStates%2BIndia%2Bheld%2Bcode%2B2012%2BYudh%2BAbhyas%2Bprepare%2Bfor%2Bwar%2Bjoint%2Bmilitary%2Bexercises%2Bexperience%2Band%2Bskil

New pics although 3rd is possible repost

Google Image Result for http://cdn2.wn.com/ph/img/79/85/f980db005da01c1f9b58e2cd7ef1-grande.jpg


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## Sergi

arcelite said:


> Were comparing a Terrorist Front to our intelligence agency.....<_>



Which terrorist front ??? Name please


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## arcelite

ISI my dear Sergei ISI

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## david blain

Sergi said:


> I think we are stuck in LABLEING things that may be the problem here.
> What I understand RAW can use any asset in India. Be it IA/IN/IAF.
> SFF is directly under RAW. SG is IA element attached to SFF. I think everybody agree till here.
> 
> I think I clearly mention two terms in my previous posts. " Operators" and "operatives"
> Operators are SG guies - IA guies
> Operatives are local area assets - in warlord countries these are Mercenaries and in civilised world these are sleeping modules.
> These Operative units are very small and have only one way communication through their OPERATORS.
> So we can't label them as SG. But the operators who handle these units are SG guies. So may be they are considered as part of SG
> 
> Last thing and repeating it again. Any job that SF can do by itself is done by SF only. Operatives are for Hit and Run mission.
> 
> I don't think any nation will accept legally that they Operate Mercenaries. It's against golden rule. But they have to do this dirty game.
> 
> 
> You don't need to be sorry my friend. It's normal that we need facts to belive something
> 
> I tried to explain above ^^^ what I understand.
> But seriously, will any force make a documentation that they operate Mercenaries  these guies are barbarians. to kill is their profession sometimes for money. How you gona justify such operations to civilised world who belive in Human Rights ???





Hmm it means what we can belive is that india used this mercenaries where we cant send SF directly. they are more like a paid assasins or local mafia but We disagree with that those mercenaries are traind by india have read in a post ...



> True that. But IA giving central Asian mercenaries high level ultra advanced training and tactics...I dunno if thats really a good thing.
> Original PostBy MUHARIB



or i hope it isnt rite ....Any way there is no offence to anyone we are discussing here not argueing ....

By the way any news abt Maulana masood azahar i mean havent heard anything abt JM since long .... is it somehow related to our discussion


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## Sergi

david blain said:


> a paid assasins or local mafia but We disagree with that those mercenaries are traind by india have read in a post ...


Depends on the cause. General logic is "Enemy of enemy is a friend". If we can't find such FRIENDS then Money option. 

As i said earlier I don't think they are trained like SFs. Just some fine touching and weapons. Most of these guies ( paid ) are professionals.


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## david blain

Actually all these are very confusing ( though we can call it an achivment ) we can ralate some events to ths at the same time we wonder certain target havent achived ....


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

What i am saying with regard to that legal document being show is that it was stated that Special Group is Vikas Unit which means there is no other Special Group..Maybe there is some other group under Raw which has foreigners and who are mistaken for being SG.I believe SG ie Vikas Unit is a group of Indian Elite SF operatives that operate in Kashmir and N-E and comprise of Army SF and maybe some Marcos...and this is what i will keep believing till i see some hard facts stating otherwise and everyone has the right to have their own views.

Secondly,SFF is not some International unit on the lines of french foreign legions where any tom,dick harry gets hired.It was raised as a anti-China unit with Tibetians serving in it..Try to understand the purpose of raising it.Its not that some fine day a RAW Director though of having some fancy International unit with operatives from every continent.

Even if we have hired foreign mercenaries doesnt mean that we will consider them our elite SF..i mean they are hired for a purpose..Its a kind of Use and Throw thing.

Lastly,my impression of a defence forum after having discussions on Ghataks and Para SF is that after reading a internet link everyone starts assuming things which are not...I mean it was so hard to prove a simple thing like The Para took part in the last Indo US excercise..Thanks to youtube videos or i would have still been arguing that the SF indeed took part...and in this case i rest my case here...I think its for everyone to judge after reading so much about Indian SF because in the end we all are assuming and there is no solid proof and there would never be.

Cheers


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I think its for everyone to judge after reading so much about Indian SF because in the end we all are assuming and *there is no solid proof and there would never be.*
> 
> Cheers


And never should be 

The third Paraghraph of your post is what I am trying to say from yesterday.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> And never should be
> 
> The third Paraghraph of your post is what I am trying to say from yesterday.



The thing is we had such teams in the past but after I k Gujrals decision we lost every capabilty we had there.I mean we used to have 2 hit teams in Pakistan..1 was for Khalistan movement and the other for Pakistan..but currently we lack any such capabiity after a great follishness by I K Gujral and neither do i think Manmohan Singh will ever give a go ahead for such a thing.



david blain said:


> Actually all these are very confusing ( though we can call it an achivment ) we can ralate some events to ths at the same time we wonder certain target havent achived ....



Kindly read this to know the answers to all your questions 


Why Indian intelligence doesn't work too well in Pakistan - Times Of India

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## Sergi

A worthy link to read. It's from google books so you won't see all the pages. But images are good. If anyone can post them here

Elite Forces of India and Pakistan - Kenneth Conboy - Google Books


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

A good read on the SFF!




> India Paramilitary Forces: Special Frontier Force
> v.1.0 May 5, 2002
> Ravi Rikhye
> 
> Forty years after its creation under the code name 22 Establishment, the Special Frontier Force remains the subject of much speculation and little concrete information.
> 
> An initial sanction of 3 battalions was increased to six, possibly in the late 1960s. At least one additional battalion, the 7th, stationed with XXXIII Corps in the Northeast, was added, but we do not know when.
> 
> The SFF was intended to gather intelligence on Chinese military movements along the Indo-Tibet border, and this it did, sometimes by means as unsophisticated as stationing small teams on a snowy mountain top with a radio through the winter. In the event of war, operating in companies, the SFF is to provide forward screens for the Indian Army, and to fall back once the direction and strength of the attack are clearly established. The force is paratroop trained, and would also be used to conduct conventional airborne assaults ahead of ground forces in areas such as the Aksai Chin, as well as unconventional warfare.
> 
> How much of this special forces capability the SFF retains today is impossible to say. In the 1999 Kargil operations, one battalion fought as straight infantry. It is likely that much of its job today is simply as scouts.
> 
> The SFF recruits both ethnic Tibetans and Gorkhas. While Tibetans can and do become officers, regular army officers on deputation to the SFF provide its backbone.
> 
> Under the Indian setup, the &#8220;Cabinet Secretariat&#8221; controls the SFF. The Cabinet Secretariat does exist as an organization, roughly comparable to the US White House staff. When applied to the SFF, however, the term is a euphuism for the Research and Analysis Wing, India&#8217;s external intelligence agency. This is akin to putting the US Special Forces under the CIA or 22 SAS under MI-6, and we don&#8217;t need to remind readers familiar with the Vietnam War how much potential there is for abuse in such a system.
> 
> Such abuse did, in fact, occur in the 1980s when the highly secretive agency was &#8220;outed&#8221; in the Indian press. Apparently the units at headquarters at Chakrata (near Dehradun) in Utter Pradesh had been gunning down any game that came within their sights, protected or not, using their aircraft for smuggling, and generally drinking and raising Cain. Despite talk of disbanding SFF, it was told to clean up and continue with its work. The misbehavior is hardly surprising, given that ultimately the force reports to a bunch of bureaucratic spymasters, and that it has spent decades doing nothing. The kind of illegal cross border operations used to trigger a China-India war in the Dragonfire fictional scenario was firmly clamped down on decades ago.
> 
> The battalions in the field, of course, are under operational control of the army and must meet its training standards. After the 1971 War India stood down a considerable fraction of China deployed forces in Tibet: 3 Division was left with only two brigades facing the Chinese, and each brigade had two regular and one Vikas Force battalion. Vikas Force is the cover name under which the SFF operates.
> 
> On the limited information we have, the SFF deployment appears to be:
> 
> - two battalions in Ladakh
> 
> - one battalion in Himachal
> 
> - one battalion in Utter Pradesh
> 
> - two battalions in Arunachal Pradesh
> 
> That leaves one battalion unaccounted for; we do not know if the SSF&#8217;s regimental center claims one battalion number, or if one battalion at a time rotates through the training center, or one battalion is stationed at another part of the front.




India Paramilitary Forces: Special Frontier Force


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Why Indian intelligence doesn't work too well in Pakistan - Times Of India


Good find  all points have been covered.

Ask an Indian intelligence official about the challenge involved in tracking Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives inside Pakistan and they all give the same answer . *Most officers who have served in Pakistan say that India has the capability to hit the terror group in Pakistan, but the government doesn't allow such covert actions.* "We don't do covert operations like the CIA, MI6 and Mossad. *This doesn't mean that we don't have the capability. Given a chance, we could prove equal to all these agencies,"* says a former officer.

But sources in the R&AW , India's external agency, say *India lacks both political will and the capability to carry out a hit inside Pakis*tan. "We do not have the mandate to do what Mossad does. Our charter does not include the job of getting (or assassinating) people from other countries. *If such political will is there, the agency would be able to do it,"* says a senior RAW official.
In fact, over the past two decades the agency has even *lost some of its capability* for covert operations abroad. "During the 1980s, the agency used to have two Counter Intelligence Teams (CITs) in Pakistan: one targeting the country and the other targeting Khalistani militant infrastructure. However, during Prime Minister I K Gujral's time, both these teams were dismantled and the extensive human *intelligence network in Pakistan was scaled down*," says another official. "Done purely on moral grounds, this severely affected our capability. That structure h a s a s yet not been restored as the political class here believes that covert operations spoil bilateral relations," he adds. The agency, sources say, *now conducts operations primarily by paying money to local operatives* in Pakistan instead of its own agents. *But such groups can't hit out at ISI-protected figures like Hafiz Saeed and Dawood* Ibrahim. Another former officer , who has spent a considerable time studying these outfits, attributes it to the fundamental difference between India and Pakistan in dealing with espionage. "It takes a great deal of money and time to cultivate sources in foreign soil. We don't have either in plenty, unlike countries in the West. Pakistan's ISI is better off in this as the state sponsors terrorism ," he says.

In order to surmount the challenges on the ground, most intelligence officers believe that they need better equipment for surveillance as well as the go-ahead for covert tactics. "The direction finders we used before would give us kilometre per square information about somebody we wanted to track. We knew he was there somewhere but couldn't pinpoint his location. Now, of course, we have better technology . But if you pit it against what the Americans use, there is a lot of catching up to do. However, even with smarter technology we cannot do much *unless our government allows us to do covert operations*. You will see the difference then."


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## david blain

> now conducts operations primarily by paying money to local operatives in Pakistan instead of its own agents. But such groups can't hit out at ISI-protected figures like Hafiz Saeed and Dawood Ibrahim.



any example ? by the way list of indians wanted by pakistan 



> (7) Rajan Nikhalje alias Chhota Rajan, wanted for a number of terrorist attacks in different cities of Pakistan including a bomb blast in Sabzi Mandi Islamabad and a bomb blast in Quetta. Chhota Rajan is now launching terrorist operations in Pakistan from Indian Missions in Kandahar and Jalalabad (Afghanistan) and is head of RAW&#8217;s organized Crimes Wing or Special Operations Division (SOD), he is also wanted for killing of Chinese Engineers in Baluchistan and organizing the murder of some Chinese workers near Peshawar



Its a fake news but i still like it


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## Sergi

david blain said:


> any example ? by the way list of indians wanted by pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> Its a fake news but i still like it


Dude don't you think you are asking too much 
I am myself surprised to read that TOI article. TOI is known to hide the facts better than anything else in India. If we know all the things then what kinda secrate the secrate organisation Will be


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## david blain

Sergi said:


> Dude don't you think you are asking too much
> I am myself surprised to read that TOI article. TOI is known to hide the facts better than anything else in India. If we know all the things then what kinda secrate the secrate organisation Will be



Lol.....jai hind


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Good find  all points have been covered.
> 
> Ask an Indian intelligence official about the challenge involved in tracking Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives inside Pakistan and they all give the same answer . *Most officers who have served in Pakistan say that India has the capability to hit the terror group in Pakistan, but the government doesn't allow such covert actions.* "We don't do covert operations like the CIA, MI6 and Mossad. *This doesn't mean that we don't have the capability. Given a chance, we could prove equal to all these agencies,"* says a former officer.
> 
> But sources in the R&AW , India's external agency, say *India lacks both political will and the capability to carry out a hit inside Pakis*tan. "We do not have the mandate to do what Mossad does. Our charter does not include the job of getting (or assassinating) people from other countries. *If such political will is there, the agency would be able to do it,"* says a senior RAW official.
> In fact, over the past two decades the agency has even *lost some of its capability* for covert operations abroad. "During the 1980s, the agency used to have two Counter Intelligence Teams (CITs) in Pakistan: one targeting the country and the other targeting Khalistani militant infrastructure. However, during Prime Minister I K Gujral's time, both these teams were dismantled and the extensive human *intelligence network in Pakistan was scaled down*," says another official. "Done purely on moral grounds, this severely affected our capability. That structure h a s a s yet not been restored as the political class here believes that covert operations spoil bilateral relations," he adds. The agency, sources say, *now conducts operations primarily by paying money to local operatives* in Pakistan instead of its own agents. *But such groups can't hit out at ISI-protected figures like Hafiz Saeed and Dawood* Ibrahim. Another former officer , who has spent a considerable time studying these outfits, attributes it to the fundamental difference between India and Pakistan in dealing with espionage. "It takes a great deal of money and time to cultivate sources in foreign soil. We don't have either in plenty, unlike countries in the West. Pakistan's ISI is better off in this as the state sponsors terrorism ," he says.
> 
> In order to surmount the challenges on the ground, most intelligence officers believe that they need better equipment for surveillance as well as the go-ahead for covert tactics. "The direction finders we used before would give us kilometre per square information about somebody we wanted to track. We knew he was there somewhere but couldn't pinpoint his location. Now, of course, we have better technology . But if you pit it against what the Americans use, there is a lot of catching up to do. However, even with smarter technology we cannot do much *unless our government allows us to do covert operations*. You will see the difference then."



It states that we dont have the capability and the political will for carrying out any such operation because of the great IK Gujral.Political will every one understands but in order to have the capability we neeed to have 2 things.One is intelligence and second is Hit teams.Now when the author states that we dont have the capability that means we lack any such Hit team in Pakistan whereas it cannot be denied that we have intelligence teams.So my point like earlier is..Where is the Hit team?You guys are talking about a Hit team comprising of Mercenaries who will carry out any operation if given orders..SO this Hit team needs to be present in pakistan? If yes then it will have guys who dont get posted regularly like Army regulars...So they might be having some base?..and this article states that we dont have any such thing in Pakistan..Hence i say it is a thing of the past which we dont have right now.


SFF is no secret organisation..It was used in Kargil ops like a regular infantry.It is the parent unit of the NSG coz of its participation in Op Bule Star and it also took part in 1971 war...Indian Army Officers go on deputation to SFF and they are the backbone of this unit...Vikas unit is THE SF of SFF and it only and only comprises of Indians..even Tibetians are not allowed.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

david blain said:


> Lol.....jai hind



Indian intelligence agencies are limited to offensive capabilities in India and maybe a few friendly countries like Nepal,Bangladesh and Sri Lanka ie they have Hit teams in these countries which consiosts of Indians...there have been several arrests in Nepal which prove this and this is possible only because the govt. is friendly.Now in Pakistan we lack any Hit teams plus we are limited to Intelligence gathering thanks to IK gujral and moreover the focus of our agencies is to counter terror and prevent attacks..Revenge and Assasinations are beyong the capabilty and political will of our Intelligence units..I mean we are no Mossad.

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## david blain

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Indian intelligence agencies are limited to offensive capabilities in India and maybe a few friendly countries like Nepal,Bangladesh and Sri Lanka ie they have Hit teams in these countries which consiosts of Indians...there have been several arrests in Nepal which prove this and this is possible only because the govt. is friendly.Now in Pakistan we lack any Hit teams plus we are limited to Intelligence gathering thanks to IK gujral and moreover the focus of our agencies is to counter terror and prevent attacks..Revenge and Assasinations are beyong the capabilty and political will of our Intelligence units..I mean we are no Mossad.



you broke my heart


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

david blain said:


> you broke my heart



Why?


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## Abingdonboy

david blain said:


> you broke my heart



Why? India is not a vigilante who regularly undertakes extra-judicial killings and violates sovereignty of others. India is a respected player in the world community.India respects the rule of law. The US and Israel have made A LOT of enemies this way.

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## david blain

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Indian intelligence agencies are limited to offensive capabilities in India and maybe a few friendly countries like Nepal,Bangladesh and Sri Lanka ie they have Hit teams in these countries which consiosts of Indians...there have been several arrests in Nepal which prove this and this is possible only because the govt. is friendly.Now in Pakistan we lack any Hit teams plus we are limited to Intelligence gathering thanks to IK gujral and moreover the focus of our agencies is to counter terror and prevent attacks..Revenge and Assasinations are beyong the *capabilty* and political will of our Intelligence units..I mean we are no *Mossad*.



because of this ...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

david blain said:


> because of this ...



Yaar..capability is only developed when there is a Go-ahead given by the Govt.I didnt mean to say we dont have the right people..I mean these guys are not allowed to develop the capabilities..given a chance the RAW can get anything done anywhere but for that we will need a great leader which we dont have.Our country is filled with politicians but no leaders.OTOH Mossad is given freedom to carry out such activities...I mean if a green signal is given it wont take a long time to assasinate our enemies having a comfortable life there.

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## david blain

Abingdonboy said:


> Why? India is not a vigilante who regularly undertakes extra-judicial killings and violates sovereignty of others. India is a respected player in the world community.India respects the rule of law. The US and Israel have made A LOT of enemies this way.



Even i am not in total favor to under take extra judicial killing and violets sovereignty of other country but atleast we should have that capability country is above all and to save once country have to do anything it takes ... Think israel without mossad u can say its because of mossad Israel still exist ... we should have capabality to nutralies people like dawood hafeez and maulana masood ...



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yaar..capability is only developed when there is a Go-ahead given by the Govt.I didnt mean to say we dont have the right people..I mean these guys are not allowed to develop the capabilities..given a chance the RAW can get anything done anywhere but for that we will need a great leader which we dont have.Our country is filled with politicians but no leaders.OTOH Mossad is given freedom to carry out such activities...I mean if a green signal is given it wont take a long time to assasinate our enemies having a comfortable life there.



Bhai to pahele se thik se bola kar u knw abt novel thing


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

david blain said:


> Bhai to pahele se thik se bola kar u knw abt novel thing



Dude,i am dead tired...Isliye short me likh k kaam chala raha tha.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It states that we dont have the capability and the political will for carrying out any such operation because of the great IK Gujral.Political will every one understands but in order to have the capability we neeed to have 2 things.One is intelligence and second is Hit teams.Now when the author states that we dont have the capability that means we lack any such Hit team in Pakistan whereas it cannot be denied that we have intelligence teams.So my point like earlier is..Where is the Hit team?You guys are talking about a Hit team comprising of Mercenaries who will carry out any operation if given orders..SO this Hit team needs to be present in pakistan? If yes then it will have guys who dont get posted regularly like Army regulars...So they might be having some base?..and this article states that we dont have any such thing in Pakistan..Hence i say it is a thing of the past which we dont have right now.
> 
> 
> SFF is no secret organisation..It was used in Kargil ops like a regular infantry.It is the parent unit of the NSG coz of its participation in Op Bule Star and it also took part in 1971 war...Indian Army Officers go on deputation to SFF and they are the backbone of this unit...Vikas unit is THE SF of SFF and it only and only comprises of Indians..even Tibetians are not allowed.


Man I highlight some point for a purpose 

*Most officers who have served in Pakistan say that India has the capability to hit the terror group in Pakistan, but the government doesn't allow such covert actions.* - Field officers Opinion. It clear says "has"

*This doesn't mean that we don't have the capability. Given a chance, we could prove equal to all these agencies,"* - self explanatory sentence


*India lacks both political will and the capability to carry out a hit inside Pakis*tan. "We do not have the mandate to do what Mossad does. Our charter does not include the job of getting (or assassinating) people from other countries. *If such political will is there, the agency would be able to do it,"* says a senior RAW official. :
- How ??? We don't have capabilities. He isn't saying we will develope the capabilities and would do it. It's just we would be able to do it. Even he is stressing on political will. He is confident of capacity or can develope capacity in short notice 


*lost some of its capability* 
*intelligence network in Pakistan was scaled down* - SCALED DOWN not closed. 

*now conducts operations primarily by paying money to local operatives* in Pakistan instead of its own agents.: - what does it mean ??? Now conduts. Not can if buts. It clearly says it does. 

*But such groups can't hit out at ISI-protected figures like Hafiz Saeed and Dawood* - another one point we discussed earlier as "easy or difficult"

*unless our government allows us to do covert operations*. You will see the difference then." : it's the import one 

SFF is no secret organisation.. NOW  but it was in past

*I didn't have much info on "Vikas" so I will avoid commenting on it till I get some  and not from Net * will definatly come back on this point then

Where is the Hit team?You guys are talking about a Hit team comprising of Mercenaries who will carry out any operation if given orders..SO this Hit team needs to be present in pakistan? If yes then it will have guys who dont get posted regularly like Army regulars... - *Yes said it 5/6 times earlier. Paid job and can't be called as SF. People calling them SF may be due to their operators are SF. That's it
*
*Dude I think you have made you opinion and won't change it unless and untill you find something concrete *
Even this article is BOLD for TOI standards. Put yourself in those officers shoes and imagine what the things you would have told media ???
Sometimes reading between line helps.




Abingdonboy said:


> Why? India is not a vigilante who regularly undertakes extra-judicial killings and violates sovereignty of others. India is a respected player in the world community.India respects the rule of law. The US and Israel have made A LOT of enemies this way.


100 %. But only purpose isnt killing enemy. Sometimes we need to protect our interests in area or get out a imp FRIEND or keep watch on something/someone.
violates sovereignty: it's a funny term  every country has its networks in other countries. And will be doing the things in its countries interests. Sometimes illegal in Parent country.
Thing here is not to get caugh

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yaar..capability is only developed when there is a Go-ahead given by the Govt.I didnt mean to say we dont have the right people..I mean these guys are not allowed to develop the capabilities..given a chance the RAW can get anything done anywhere but for that we will need a great leader which we dont have.Our country is filled with politicians but no leaders.OTOH Mossad is given freedom to carry out such activities...I mean if a green signal is given it wont take a long time to assasinate our enemies having a comfortable life there.


100 % correct. 
BTW even MOSSAD need Hit flag. They don't have freedom to hit on own wish. Order is issued from Highest level of Civilian leader and so is for CIA. It's just their leaders


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## Sergi

. 
we can't prove somethings. 
So Let everybody assume/belive/imagine whatever they want  I am done with it. So you guies can continue

*OR*
let's CLOSE this topic here and stick to our regular SF news and images


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Man I highlight some point for a purpose
> 
> *Most officers who have served in Pakistan say that India has the capability to hit the terror group in Pakistan, but the government doesn't allow such covert actions.* - Field officers Opinion. It clear says "has"
> 
> *This doesn't mean that we don't have the capability. Given a chance, we could prove equal to all these agencies,"* - self explanatory sentence
> 
> 
> *India lacks both political will and the capability to carry out a hit inside Pakis*tan. "We do not have the mandate to do what Mossad does. Our charter does not include the job of getting (or assassinating) people from other countries. *If such political will is there, the agency would be able to do it,"* says a senior RAW official. :
> - How ??? We don't have capabilities. He isn't saying we will develope the capabilities and would do it. It's just we would be able to do it. Even he is stressing on political will. He is confident of capacity or can develope capacity in short notice
> 
> 
> *lost some of its capability*
> *intelligence network in Pakistan was scaled down* - SCALED DOWN not closed.
> 
> *now conducts operations primarily by paying money to local operatives* in Pakistan instead of its own agents.: - what does it mean ??? Now conduts. Not can if buts. It clearly says it does.
> 
> *But such groups can't hit out at ISI-protected figures like Hafiz Saeed and Dawood* - another one point we discussed earlier as "easy or difficult"
> 
> *unless our government allows us to do covert operations*. You will see the difference then." : it's the import one
> SFF is no secret organisation.. NOW but it was in past
> 
> *I didn't have much info on "Vikas" so I will avoid commenting on it till I get some  and not from Net * will definatly come back on this point then
> 
> Where is the Hit team?You guys are talking about a Hit team comprising of Mercenaries who will carry out any operation if given orders..SO this Hit team needs to be present in pakistan? If yes then it will have guys who dont get posted regularly like Army regulars... - *Yes said it 5/6 times earlier. Paid job and can't be called as SF. People calling them SF may be due to their operators are SF. That's it
> *
> *Dude I think you have made you opinion and won't change it unless and untill you find something concrete *
> Even this article is BOLD for TOI standards. Put yourself in those officers shoes and imagine what the things you would have told media ???
> Sometimes reading between line helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 100 %. But only purpose isnt killing enemy. Sometimes we need to protect our interests in area or get out a imp FRIEND or keep watch on something/someone.
> violates sovereignty: it's a funny term every country has its networks in other countries. And will be doing the things in its countries interests. Sometimes illegal in Parent country.
> Thing here is not to get caugh




You guys were saying that SG comprises of mercenaries?..what about that..Where is that proved?..I was saying from the start that SG comprises of Indian PARA SF and till now it hasnt been proved wrong..you are only repeating my points and using it against me..It was me who said that RAW would have such paid mercenaries and not SG of the SFF...and now you are using my article to highlight my points against me 

Kindly read who is posting what properly..From the begining of this debate i have mainted a few points:-

*SG ie Vikas regtt has only Indians thsat too Para SF
*SFF doesnt have have any mercenary team
*RAW operates Mercenaries
*SFF is basically a type of Army like force which is heavily relying on Army for Officers and various other ranks.

These points i still maintain and i have enough evidence atleast that i am quiet confident of what i know.

Its for you to prove it otherwise coz you and one more guy were saying that SFF has mercenaries..and now you are saying that RAW has mercenaries and it has Hit teams in Pakistan which gets paid to do the job...I mean you are confusing me.


----------



## Sergi

Sergi said:


> We never know for sure. I am the one who belive SFF and SG are different. And RAW operates SOF too.
> Even RAW is belived to have forgine Operatives too.
> But as I said earlier Nobody can confirm anything


 


Sergi said:


> I agree with it ^^^. But it's SG
> 
> What I said I belive SG and SFF are different.


 


Sergi said:


> Small teams with two Operators watching over. No linking between two teams. Only Hit missions if needed. No delivery or rescue missions.
> 
> 
> That's the Rule of the Game here


 


Sergi said:


> In very Very small number and in well spread area. These guies do this thing for money. If not for us then for others. It is always good to have assets in such areas where you need to keep your indirect hold. It's just Business.
> 
> CIA operates Mercenaries all over the world. If some experts are to be belived some of our Scientist didn't die in accidents. Sad but dirty truth


 


Sergi said:


> I wasn't taking about ONLY Afgan Mereenaries. We have got variety there around whole map of Asia
> Yes they can choose Opposite side but they aren't let unattained and we don't need them for day to day business. If a SF can do the job, then these guies aren't involved in OP at all.
> As far as their training is concerned I don't think that would be much as these guies are well prepared in their own profession. Some fine touchs and weapons. That's all.
> 
> These guies are stand alone assets. No joint OPs. They are only used to hit and run OPs
> 
> *Something interesting to read in you want to know how dirty the game can become*:
> interesting news: MYSTERY DEATH OF TWO INDIAN NUCLEAR SCIENTISTS [1] HOMI BHABHA 1966 AND [2]Dr.VIKRAM SARABHAI 1971


 


Sergi said:


> He is in ISI's protection plus his own Men. And you can't take on Army guies in the centre of City with handfull of Merc. If any one of them caugh alive and talk about OP then you know what will be the result.
> 
> Taking down Dawood will be difficult but won't be impossible. What we lack is a political will. And not the asset or resources.
> 
> BTW I never claim anything True. I am just sharing what I collect from various sources. It's upto you to belive or not. We live in information era. Information is a weapon


 


Sergi said:


> DAWOOD is a big asset for ISI. His network in India can do a lot of things. So keeping him alive is priority.
> Last report of GOI about him mention he live in a ISI safe house guarded by special forces (may be SSG)
> And we get the idea of ISI safe house from OBL raid. So he isn't sitting duck.
> 
> In Pakistan no one is safe - its just for common man


 


Sergi said:


> Sniper issue is closed when you say safe house. It would have been already considered by ISI
> Mercenaries can kill a drug lord. No doubt. But can they run over a safe house all by themselves when 15/20 commandos guarding it. Forget the personal gaurds. And from a place where backup and reinforcement for them is few min aways ???
> It will be a suicide mission.
> If one has to take such target one need to Wait and watch. And trap the opportunity when came out. Be first and foremost thing we need political go
> 
> 
> The moment he become liability they will kill him themself


 


Sergi said:


> I know a One OP long away from Indian boarder where IA SF extracted a VVIP package from enemy territory and take it to safe place before airlifting it to INDIA. Mercenary forces where used to divert the attention from this activity which gave SF time window for extraction.
> I can't write the name of enemy or package. But this happen in 2008. And OP wasn't near any of Indian boarder. This will be enough for guess


 


Sergi said:


> That's the problem dude. I can't write the details. I write the only things that I can write without giving away important details.
> The mentioned OP wasn't related to 26/11.
> 
> 
> Exactly 90% RAW findings are unaudited. It's a good explanation why ???
> 
> Pakistan has send assassins 4/5 times in India to hit political targets. They failed everytime. ( it's what IB says )


 


Sergi said:


> I think we are stuck in LABLEING things that may be the problem here.
> What I understand RAW can use any asset in India. Be it IA/IN/IAF.
> SFF is directly under RAW. SG is IA element attached to SFF. I think everybody agree till here.
> 
> I think I clearly mention two terms in my previous posts. " Operators" and "operatives"
> Operators are SG guies - IA guies
> Operatives are local area assets - in warlord countries these are Mercenaries and in civilised world these are sleeping modules.
> These Operative units are very small and have only one way communication through their OPERATORS.
> So we can't label them as SG. But the operators who handle these units are SG guies. So may be they are considered as part of SG
> 
> Last thing and repeating it again. Any job that SF can do by itself is done by SF only. Operatives are for Hit and Run mission.
> 
> I don't think any nation will accept legally that they Operate Mercenaries. It's against golden rule. But they have to do this dirty game.
> 
> 
> You don't need to be sorry my friend. It's normal that we need facts to belive something
> 
> I tried to explain above ^^^ what I understand.
> But seriously, will any force make a documentation that they operate Mercenaries  these guies are barbarians. to kill is their profession sometimes for money. How you gona justify such operations to civilised world who belive in Human Rights ???


 


Sergi said:


> I can give you one recent example. Iranian nuclear scientist's assassination. Israel/USA has best of best. Did they do it themselves ???
> It were Iranian Operatives/mercenaries.
> It is impossible for US/Israel citizen tobe inside Iran for covert OPs due to obivious reasons


 


Sergi said:


> Depends on the cause. General logic is "Enemy of enemy is a friend". If we can't find such FRIENDS then Money option.
> 
> As i said earlier I don't think they are trained like SFs. Just some fine touching and weapons. Most of these guies ( paid ) are professionals.


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You guys were saying that SG comprises of mercenaries?..what about that..Where is that proved?..I was saying from the start that SG comprises of Indian PARA SF and till now it hasnt been proved wrong..you are only repeating my points and using it against me..It was me who said that RAW would have such paid mercenaries and not SG of the SFF...and now you are using my article to highlight my points against me
> 
> Kindly read who is posting what properly..From the begining of this debate i have mainted a few points:-
> 
> *SG ie Vikas regtt has only Indians thsat too Para SF
> *SFF doesnt have have any mercenary team
> *RAW operates Mercenaries
> *SFF is basically a type of Army like force which is heavily relying on Army for Officers and various other ranks.
> 
> These points i still maintain and i have enough evidence atleast that i am quiet confident of what i know.
> 
> Its for you to prove it otherwise coz you and one more guy were saying that SFF has mercenaries..and now you are saying that RAW has mercenaries and it has Hit teams in Pakistan which gets paid to do the job...I mean you are confusing me.


You guies - please be specific - I don't recall saying that. I have quoted all my posts. Be my guest to show where I said it 
Well I mentioned all the points in YOUR article before YOU post the article. Your article actually back me up. Please have alook at all my posts and your article 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dawood would have been an easy kill for these mercenaries.


This was you were saying before article


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## SamantK

So many special forces, hard to keep a track of


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yes it is the Establishment 22 and no one knows about their job profile to be honest and since its operatives are from Navy and Para it cant be called a civil institution.It is basically a special team consisiting of the finest operatives we have for very secret missions.


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I can confirm a few things
> 
> SG consists of Para SF and there are no tibetians present in it.They even operate in J&K and here is the confirmation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry i removed the picture as i think its not right..go and visit his website and you will find several letters from SG.


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am pretty much sure that they are different and Para SF are a part of it.We even have one casualty to prove it.We also know that they operate in Kashmir..the only thing left to find out is the Marcos presence and their job profile.


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Obviously when the best of the best are drawn from Para and Marcos then it will be better than the regulars they left behind and manage to get selected in SG.
> 
> What is ARC?(There are several abbreviations)
> 
> 
> 
> Dude,you are trying to say that the SG is involved in NWFP? I mean..
> 
> 
> I am not saying this is not possible but being involved in NWFP means we have been involved in a lot of dirty things.
> 
> If and i say again *If* this is true then i can only imagine what our base in Tajikistan is upto.
> 
> 
> 
> Dekh bhai,SG ek aiysa group he India ka jisme India ki top SF ke top operatives shamil hote hein.Yeh India ki sabse secretive force hein aur yeh aiyse operations karti hein jinke bare mein ek aam admi ko kabhi kuch nahi pata chalega.Inki uniform,weapons,tactis,training,headquaters infact existence k bare mein hi kisi ko kuch nahi pata..In short it is the collection of the best SF operatives in India and undoubtedly the most elite unit in India.


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ARC also stands for Active Response Corps,Army Reconnaissance Corps,Army Reserve Command..so i was confused.
> 
> So you are saying that Central Asians are recruited just in case we might need them?...But buddy..The Para SF are taught various Pakistani languages for this very purpose only so why would we be hiring unreliable mercenaries and Indians and Pakistani alsmost look the same only.Thanks to our large country that we have a large no of people from various ethnic backgrounds who can be sent for under cover ops anywhere.


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i am very confused on this but i can say that if this is true then these guys would be very reliable coz the Indian intellegince agencies have some really smart guys..Who knows these mercenaries are under constant watch and any suspicious behaviour and they are killed...
> 
> LOL i am just assuming this..i really dont have any idea about SG...


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i was talking in general and it wasnt particularly against you.
> 
> The Special group only consits of Vikas Unit which comprises of Indian Army Para SF as has been proved by me through that link of
> "legal papers" which cannot be proved wrong.
> 
> It mentions several time..Special Group ie Vikas Unit..and we alll know vikas unit has only indians in it and it is also clearly mentioned that Special group is the only Special Force of SFF.
> 
> I think it is a great find  and it solves a lot of doubts from my mind atleast.
> 
> I am really sorry if i have hurt you or anyone but i take this SF discussions seriously and i think i wasted the entire day imagining things which werent.
> 
> I request people to kindly not post things which cant be backed...Faltu k sapne dikha diye
> 
> 
> 
> We are glad that you liked our SFs..Nope Indian SF has never trained with Spetsnaz.Although we have trained with Russian Airborne forces.
> 
> Indian Special Forces Commandos. - YouTube


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *I am really sorry but i meant it wasnt for you...spelling mistake*
> Dude,i am not saying that you are lying..I am saying maybe you got confused.
> 
> The pieces of legal documents i just gave the link of clearly states everywhere the following words together.."Special group ie Vikas Unit"..I hope you know that in legal documents even a comma has a meaning and we are talking of * ie(that is)* here..which clearly mentions there is only 1 SG unit which is Vikas Unit..Now if there is only 1 unit ie Vikas unit where are the mercenaries?..We all know that Indian SOF operators dont work with mercenaries...and it was also stated that SFF has only SG ie Vikas unit...which says a lot of things.Even the ranks mentioned in the legal documents belong to the Army only..which means either only Para SF is involved or the Marcos didnt have a payment issue.
> 
> I think there might be some other unit having mercenaries which you are talking about..Its hard for me to believe that India's most secretive unit having the best operatives would rely on hired mercenaries.


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What i am saying with regard to that legal document being show is that it was stated that Special Group is Vikas Unit which means there is no other Special Group..Maybe there is some other group under Raw which has foreigners and who are mistaken for being SG.I believe SG ie Vikas Unit is a group of Indian Elite SF operatives that operate in Kashmir and N-E and comprise of Army SF and maybe some Marcos...and this is what i will keep believing till i see some hard facts stating otherwise and everyone has the right to have their own views.
> 
> Secondly,SFF is not some International unit on the lines of french foreign legions where any tom,dick harry gets hired.It was raised as a anti-China unit with Tibetians serving in it..Try to understand the purpose of raising it.Its not that some fine day a RAW Director though of having some fancy International unit with operatives from every continent.
> 
> Even if we have hired foreign mercenaries doesnt mean that we will consider them our elite SF..i mean they are hired for a purpose..Its a kind of Use and Throw thing.
> 
> Lastly,my impression of a defence forum after having discussions on Ghataks and Para SF is that after reading a internet link everyone starts assuming things which are not...I mean it was so hard to prove a simple thing like The Para took part in the last Indo US excercise..Thanks to youtube videos or i would have still been arguing that the SF indeed took part...and in this case i rest my case here...I think its for everyone to judge after reading so much about Indian SF because in the end we all are assuming and there is no solid proof and there would never be.
> 
> Cheers




Tell me what did i say that you have proven wrong?



Sergi said:


> I know a One OP long away from Indian boarder where IA SF extracted a VVIP package from enemy territory and take it to safe place before airlifting it to INDIA. Mercenary forces where used to divert the attention from this activity which gave SF time window for extraction.
> I can't write the name of enemy or package. But this happen in 2008. And OP wasn't near any of Indian boarder. This will be enough for guess



Care to explain this?


----------



## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tell me what did i say that you have proven wrong?


*No you haven't said anything wrong. When did i cliam that too 
You said I used you article against you , didn't you ???
So I just replied that I write all that things before you post article. Didn't I ???

I never say Merc as SG. Even I summerize one post before upper one. Where I clearly write the Operators are SG guies so the operatives might have been considered as part of SG ( by someone - I never assume that )*


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Yes I get that. That why I write that
> BTW your find justify the existance of SG of SFF. but where did it deny the things you mention as hallucination.
> 
> Anyways I know it is hard to belive someone talking about something you never see or never will see and can't prove.
> in the above mention OP, I heard from SF officer - part of the OP and I have seen the pic of that VVIP with his team. But I can't prove this things to you. So let it be a lie. still I have no reason to brag about anything on PDF to fellow Indian




Here you are trying to say that Mercenary forces exist in the SFF!


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Care to explain this?


 
That's the all I can write there. If you are asking if its true or what ???

it's 100 % on me. But I can't back it up. You can call me lier for this if you want


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> I think we are stuck in LABLEING things that may be the problem here.
> What I understand RAW can use any asset in India. Be it IA/IN/IAF.
> SFF is directly under RAW. SG is IA element attached to SFF. I think everybody agree till here.
> 
> I think I clearly mention two terms in my previous posts. " Operators" and "operatives"
> Operators are SG guies - IA guies
> Operatives are local area assets - in warlord countries these are Mercenaries and in civilised world these are sleeping modules.
> These Operative units are very small and have only one way communication through their OPERATORS.
> So we can't label them as SG. But the operators who handle these units are SG guies. So may be they are considered as part of SG
> 
> Last thing and repeating it again. Any job that SF can do by itself is done by SF only. Operatives are for Hit and Run mission.
> 
> I don't think any nation will accept legally that they Operate Mercenaries. It's against golden rule. But they have to do this dirty game.
> 
> 
> You don't need to be sorry my friend. It's normal that we need facts to belive something
> 
> I tried to explain above ^^^ what I understand.
> But seriously, will any force make a documentation that they operate Mercenaries  these guies are barbarians. to kill is their profession sometimes for money. How you gona justify such operations to civilised world who belive in Human Rights ???




Here you were again talking of SFF having mercenaries.



Sergi said:


> That's the all I can write there. If you are asking if its true or what ???
> 
> it's 100 % on me. But I can't back it up. You can call me lier for this if you want



Not calling you lier..but is this SFF or RAW you are talking of coz now you are saying that you never said SFF operated mercenaries which is not true.


----------



## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Here you are trying to say that Mercenary forces exist in the SFF!



Where ??? Please explain



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Here youwere again talking of SFF having mercenaries.
> 
> 
> 
> Not calling you lier..but is this SFF or RAW you are talking of coz now you are saying that you never said SFF operated mercenaries which is not true.


Ok I appreciate that. But my dear friend you aren't reading it properly. 
So may be is the keyword here.


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## david blain

> This was you were saying before article



i think he was saying if we SF operate this kinda mercenaries dawood would have been a easy target but he thinks not ...


ANY way lets see if we can AGREE on these point :

1 NO special forceunit use foreing mercenaries 
2 RAW can be using this mercenaries or paid assasing in pakistan 
3 india dont train this mercenaries 
4 If politicle will is there india can perform OP like geronimo...


anything else missing ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> You guies - please be specific - I don't recall saying that. I have quoted all my posts. Be my guest to show where I said it
> Well I mentioned all the points in YOUR article before YOU post the article. Your article actually back me up. Please have alook at all my posts and your article
> 
> 
> This was you were saying before article



I said Dawood was an easy killl since you were claiming that we already have Hit units in Pakistan to which i was saying that we neither have the political will nor the capability in Pakistan(which results from No political will)


----------



## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I said Dawood was an easy killl since you were claiming that we already have Hit units in Pakistan to which i was saying that we neither have the political will nor the capability in Pakistan(which results from No political will)


Yes if you mean Mercinaries No if you mean SF. See posts above that post where we were talking about Merc.
I am not denying that I said we have HIT units in enemy territory. Your article too affarm Paid Job.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Where ??? Please explain
> 
> 
> Ok I appreciate that. But my dear friend you aren't reading it properly.
> So may be is the keyword here.



We were debating on SFF and foreign mercenaries when yoiu said this:-



> But seriously, will any force make a documentation that they operate Mercenaries these guies are barbarians. to kill is their profession sometimes for money. How you gona justify such operations to civilised world who belive in Human Rights ???



And secondly what about that operation..Who took part in it..Which force were the foreign mercenaries representing?


----------



## david blain

Dark Warrior said:


> I forgot to add that the most imp.need for foreigners in SG are because even if your operative is compromised(like taken PoW) your enemies will have a very tough time finding out who send him.
> 
> P.S SG operates in very small teams.


 
sergi and cold hearted i think u two are talking abt this


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

david blain said:


> i think he was saying if we SF operate this kinda mercenaries dawood would have been a easy target but he thinks not ...
> 
> 
> ANY way lets see if we can AGREE on these point :
> 
> 1 NO special forceunit use foreing mercenaries
> 2 RAW can be using this mercenaries or paid assasing in pakistan
> 3 india dont train this mercenaries
> 4 If politicle will is there india can perform OP like geronimo...
> 
> 
> anything else missing ?



Mercenaries are not our SPecial force like some guys were saying and calling them extrememly reliable to be considered a special force..It is a use and throw thing where we pay for such things..Objectives achieved and our hands are clean..thats the aim..We are not raising any Foregn legion type of force.

Yes Raw is doing this as they have the contacts in Pakistan

Yes India doesnt train anyone..these mercenaries dont even come here.

I am not sure of Op Geronimo...we are not that technologically advanced nor we have the political will.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Here you were again talking of SFF having mercenaries.
> 
> 
> 
> Not calling you lier..but is this SFF or RAW you are talking of coz now you are saying that you never said SFF operated mercenaries which is not true.


That mission was direct from PMO - handled by RAW - Operated by IA SF/SOF. Those Merc where Operated by SG operators. 
And what you saying that SFF operates Merc "as I claim" you are forgetting to read the word "MAY BE CALLED" that was a guess for the rumer spread that SG operates Merc.



david blain said:


> sergi and cold hearted i think u two are talking abt this


Exactly but he is quoting me

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> That mission was direct from PMO - handled by RAW - Operated by IA SF/SOF. * Those Merc where Operated by SG operators. *
> And what you saying that SFF operates Merc "as I claim" you are forgetting to read the word "MAY BE CALLED" that was a guess for the rumer spread that SG operates Merc.
> 
> 
> Exactly but he is quoting me



Kindly explain this line.


----------



## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Kindly explain this line.



Yes definatly. When RAW operates the Merc or even FRIENDLY modules in other territory. RAW intelligence agent never blew up his cover. He just direct the SG guies to these new FRIENDS. And he watch over them when needed. RAW agent watch them without they ever knowing him

Not getting emotional  not even fighting 
I am just tied up that I can't back up what I know. So I already proposed we stop this

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## david blain

Sergi said:


> That mission was direct from PMO - handled by RAW - Operated by IA SF/SOF. Those Merc where Operated by SG operators.
> And what you saying that SFF operates Merc "as I claim" you are forgetting to read the word "MAY BE CALLED" that was a guess for the rumer spread that SG operates Merc.
> 
> 
> Exactly but he is quoting me



thats what i thought so now if u want to countinue this argument its not now discussion u have to wait for dark warrior ...


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Yes definatly. When RAW operates the Merc or even FRIENDLY modules in other territory. RAW intelligence agent never blew up his cover. He just direct the SG guies to these new FRIENDS. And he watch over them when needed. RAW agent watch them woot they ever knowing him




Listen..dont get emotional OK?..We are not fighting or quarelling..I hope you get that..I am enjoying a debate after a long time i must admit...and the offer for a drink is still valid if you come to Delhi 



Sergi said:


> Not getting emotional  not even fighting
> I am just tied up that I can't back up what I know. So I already proposed we stop this



Listen the things that you you are saying about operations..thats has been told to you by someone..is believable.I get that.I am not doubting that.The only point which you made which i didnt agree with is that SG has Mercenaries..if you meant that..I completely agree that SG would be the handlers of the mercenaries and would be guiding them..


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> .*if you meant that..I completely agree that SG would be the handlers of the mercenaries and would be guiding them*..


That's I am saying from my first post 

SG has Mercenaries.- Never ever said that  
SG guies are OPERATORS(actual field term) who handles these Paid jobs.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> That's I am saying from my first post
> 
> SG has Mercenaries.- Never ever said that
> SG guies are OPERATORS(actual field term) who handles these Paid jobs.



Ok so the confusion was SG are operators whereas you meant SG operators are handlers.


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## Sergi

HTML:







COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok so the confusion was SG are operators whereas you meant SG operators are handlers.


 
Yes if want to use Handler term instead of Operator 
btw handler is used for non-uniform guy and OPERATOR- for a uniform guy.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> HTML:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes if want to use Handler term instead of Operator
> btw handler is used for non-uniform guy and OPERATOR- for a uniform guy.



SF operator also means a SF guy.


----------



## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> SF operator also means a SF guy.



If you mean SG Operators. Yes. SG Operator is a SG guy. And the team he Operates is called "OPERATIVES"

I don't know "SF Operators" term. If its a spelling mistake it's ok. If not " is it something new ??? Can you explain what it stand for ??? That's new to me. I am Open for any updation

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> If you mean SG Operators. Yes. SG Operator is a SG guy. And the team he Operates is called "OPERATIVES"
> 
> I don't know "SF Operators" term. If its a spelling mistake it's ok. If not " is it something new ??? Can you explain what it stand for ??? That's new to me. I am Open for any updation



Operator is a person who has passed selection and is a part of the SF team.

Operator=singular Operators=plural

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *Operator is a person who has passed selection and is a part of the SF team*.
> 
> Operator=singular Operators=plural


Ok. I didn't know that 

All I know about SF TEAM is 
leader/Captain is called "1" ( one )
2/I/C is called "2/1" ( two by one )
Rest of team is given numbers from "3-XX"
Medic, if any, is always last number of team

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Ok. I didn't know that
> 
> All I know about SF TEAM is
> leader/Captain is called "1" ( one )
> 2/I/C is called "2/1" ( two by one )
> Rest of team is given numbers from "3-XX"
> Medic, if any, is always last number of team


 
Ok a quick quiz for you 

No. of guys in a Para SF team?
Their roles?
Their firepower?


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## Dark Warrior

Some people here are posting that RAW can operate mercenaries but they can't be SF guys.Strange when they recieve SF training why can't they be called SF!

Also why can't they be trained by India when we have trained MUkti,LTTE?
Acc to a US secret cable released by wikileaks(no.-002366) RAW has trained nepalese maoist women in a facility in Dehradun!
Also these guys are tajiks they are not going to walkover to taliban or Pakistan.Ask any Tajik about their opinion of Pakistan.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dark Warrior said:


> Some people here are posting that RAW can operate mercenaries but they can't be SF guys.Strange when they recieve SF training why can't they be called SF!
> 
> Also why can't they be trained by India when we have trained MUkti,LTTE?
> Acc to a US secret cable released by wikileaks(no.-002366) RAW has trained nepalese maoist women in a facility in Dehradun!
> Also these guys are tajiks they are not going to walkover to taliban or Pakistan.Ask any Tajik about their opinion of Pakistan.





> Special forces, or special operations forces are terms used to describe *highly-trained military units* trained to perform unconventional, often high-risk missions.



Thatswhy..its not a unit comprising of the best thugs available in the market.These guys are well trained,*educated*,smart and skilled people.I can sense that you have no idea how a SF operator is selected..There is a reason you will find US SOF operatives in their 30s or 40s and the reason is maturity..They dont need someone who can run the farthest or shoot with more accuuracy..they need a guy who is fit for the job and in a right frame of mind...The last things anyone needs are thugs who will blow up everything.

I think you have no idea what you are talking about..Hiring Tajiks and making them our elite SF is not only laughable but foolish.I think you are getting confused by a recent article where the Saudis are hiring Colombians to take care of their security..India is a different case.

Mukhti Bahini and Nepalese women are different cases..I hope you understand that Mukhti Bahini was not the Special Force of India in 1971 war..It was the Para Commando.

And what according to you is SF training btw?Firing Tavors and slithering from helis?..I am sure you have no idea how a Para commando is trained..the amount of knowledge he has on technical stuff like satellites..the number of languages he can speak..Now dont tell me that Tajiks are trained in Commando School,belgaum and then sent to Agra for Para jump and then are given final training by Marcos in CQB after doing their training in CIJWS and HAWS...

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok a quick quiz for you
> 
> No. of guys in a Para SF team?
> Their roles?
> Their firepower?


Don't have an idea about PARAs. Never meet one. But can tell about SF. 

Firearms depends on the mission. And most of time the choice of weapons is dependents on individuals. 

What do you mean by ROLES ???


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## Sergi

Dark Warrior said:


> Some people here are posting that RAW can operate mercenaries but they can't be SF guys.Strange when they recieve SF training why can't they be called SF!
> 
> Also why can't they be trained by India when we have trained MUkti,LTTE?
> Acc to a US secret cable released by wikileaks(no.-002366) RAW has trained nepalese maoist women in a facility in Dehradun!
> Also these guys are tajiks they are not going to walkover to taliban or Pakistan.Ask any Tajik about their opinion of Pakistan.


1. Mukti and LTTE were stand alone Org. India just teeth them up. 
2. wiki leaks: these are cable - communication bet deplomats and Washigton. It's what that deplomat thinks or knows. You tell us why India would train Maoist who were/are against India from start. Nepal govt. was Pro-India before Maoist take over. 
3. I agree with your statement about Tajiks. That why they are FRIENDS and valuable assets.

*What we differ is the training and SF status*
I don't think these guies need any training. They are professionals. All they need/get is weapons and appropriate intel. And sometimes planning is done by Operator
Only SG element in this is their Operator who is never part of the OP himself. 

So if you differ any of the above points please explain How. I would like to hear you out

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Don't have an idea about PARAs. Never meet one. But can tell about SF.
> 
> Firearms depends on the mission. And most of time the choice of weapons is dependents on individuals.
> 
> What do you mean by ROLES ???



Tell me about SF/SG..whatever you mentioned in your post.Then i will tell you about Para.



Sergi said:


> 1. Mukti and LTTE were stand alone Org. India just teeth them up.
> 2. wiki leaks: these are cable - communication bet deplomats and Washigton. It's what that deplomat thinks or knows. You tell us why India would train Maoist who were/are against India from start. Nepal govt. was Pro-India before Maoist take over.
> 3. I agree with your statement about Tajiks. That why they are FRIENDS and valuable assets.
> 
> *What we differ is the training and SF status*
> I don't think these guies need any training. They are professionals. All they need/get is weapons and appropriate intel. And sometimes planning is done by Operator
> Only SG element in this is their Operator.
> 
> So if you differ any of the above points please explain How. I would like to hear you out



Arent you guys reffering to Norther Alliance?(Tajiks)


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tell me about SF/SG..whatever you mentioned in your post.Then i will tell you about Para.
> 
> 
> 
> Arent you guys reffering to Norther Alliance?(Tajiks)


It's vast and more than that

Tajik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> *It's vast and more than that*
> 
> Tajik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Explain instead of giving me a Wiki link.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tell me about SF/SG..whatever you mentioned in your post.Then i will tell you about Para.



I didnt understand what do you mean by ROLES ???
I will give you weapons details on 10 Men SF team in that Extraction OP
2- Dragunnovs - sniper + spotter
6 - AKs with silenced MP-5s
1 - RPK 
1- RO with MP5



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Explain instead of giving me a Wiki link.


It's a wide ethnic group generally Tajaki Nationals. Yes they were part of Northen alliance. They hate Pakistani and Iranians. Pakistani I can understand as Pakistani army crush these guies time to time. But don't have any idea why they are mad with Iran. 

These aren't the extremist like Talibs but also know as tough fighters. I am not sure but these guies are also involved in China trouble ,along with regular Islam Hardliners , as they too belive China overstep their rightful land. 
My knowledge about them is limited so I gave you wiki link


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> I didnt understand what do you mean by ROLES ???
> I will give you weapons details on 10 Men SF team in that Extraction OP
> 2- Dragunnovs - sniper + spotter
> 6 - AKs with silenced MP-5s
> 1 - RPK
> 1- RO with MP5
> 
> 
> It's a wide ethnic group generally Tajaki Nationals. Yes they were part of Northen alliance. They hate Pakistani and Iranians. Pakistani I can understand as Pakistani army crush these guies time to time. But don't have any idea why they are mad with Iran.
> 
> These aren't the extremist like Talibs but also know as tough fighters. I am not sure but these guies are also involved in China trouble ,along with regular Islam Hardliners , as they too belive China overstep their rightful land.
> My knowledge about them is limited so I gave you wiki link




Watch to know more about Para SF!!

?? ??? ?????? ??... | NDTV.com


?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ??... | NDTV.com


?????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? | NDTV.com

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Watch to know more about Para SF!!
> 
> ?? ??? ?????? ??... | NDTV.com
> 
> 
> ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ??... | NDTV.com
> 
> 
> ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? | NDTV.com


Oh boy  2g 
Will look them tomorrow
But what do you mean by Role ??? I didn't get that


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Oh boy  2g
> Will look them tomorrow
> But what do you mean by Role ??? I didn't get that



I am not talking about Role Play  

Have a look at the videos and you would know...Role of each member in the team like Navigation expert,Weapons expert etc.

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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Oh boy  2g
> Will look them tomorrow
> But what do you mean by Role ??? I didn't get that




I think he means (in a typical 10 man "A"-team)- Squad commander, medic, RO/comms expert, weapons expert etc etc 


+ those vids are gold- showing how today's PARA (SF) are trainind in Nahan ie not only the reflex shooting/HR bread and butter of SOFs but the more contemporary and complex training like on complicated technical equipment like computers and satilliets and the 21st modern medicine taught to every operator etc etc

Another good vid on IA SF (1 SF I believe):
Jai Jawan with Ranbir Kapoor | NDTV.com

21 min mark is my favorite shot- room clearance drills, looking bad a$$!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I think he means (in a typical 10 man "A"-team)- Squad commander, medic, RO/comms expert, weapons expert etc etc
> 
> 
> + those vids are gold- showing how today's PARA (SF) are trainind in Nahan ie not only the reflex shooting/HR bread and butter of SOFs but the more contemporary and complex training like on complicated technical equipment like computers and satilliets and the 21st modern medicine taught to every operator etc etc
> 
> Another good vid on IA SF (1 SF I believe):
> Jai Jawan with Ranbir Kapoor | NDTV.com
> 
> 21 min mark is my favorite shot- room clearance drills, looking bad a$$!!



Dude,you forgot that Para no longer operates in 10 man teams(or is it a typo) 

AFAIK its 6-8 man team for Para and 4-6 man team for Marcos.

But obviously if the missions demands are different any changes can be brought.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,you forgot that Para no longer operates in 10 man teams(or is it a typo)
> 
> AFAIK its 6-8 man team for Para and 4-6 man team for Marcos.
> 
> But obviously if the missions demands are different any changes can be brought.



I wasn't particularly aware that things had changed- I was under the impression that 10 was a standard squad but these numbers can change depending on the mission. Your figures for MARCOs fight with mine though.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I wasn't particularly aware that things had changed- I was under the impression that 10 was a standard squad but these numbers can change depending on the mission. Your figures for MARCOs fight with mine though.



I was also under the impression that a 10 man team operates of the size of a section but in that NDTV Documentary it was clearly states that now they operate in 6-8 man teams comprising of Nav expert,Weapons expert,Medic,Comm expert and a Squad Commander.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Old pics of Garuds(but never posted before)




















Old Para Pic

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## Dark Warrior

@aviator
They may not have b.tech or b.com but they speak dari,farsi,tajik,uzbek etc.And English too.
Some of them can fire SRBM's(due Afg civil war where NA and taliban lobbed scuds at each other).
Some even know basic heli flying(Thanks to Russian helis in NA).
THey can handle varity of weapons ranginf from a handgun to 105mm to a T72 or T55 tank.

So stop posting random thoughts.
I also recommend you to call Stratfor if you don't believe my statements.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dark Warrior said:


> @aviator
> They may not have b.tech or b.com but they speak dari,farsi,tajik,uzbek etc.And English too.
> Some of them can fire SRBM's(due Afg civil war where NA and taliban lobbed scuds at each other).
> Some even know basic heli flying(Thanks to Russian helis in NA).
> THey can handle varity of weapons ranginf from a handgun to 105mm to a T72 or T55 tank.
> 
> So stop posting random thoughts.
> I also recommend you to call Stratfor if you don't believe my statements.



Buddy flying a heli or firing different weapons doesnt make you a Special forces operative..If that was the case then i easily qualify for being called a SF operative..Even i can fly an aircraft and fire most of the weapons except arty gun and driving a tank..moreover i know to handle Radio and have sound technical knowledge about Radio's..So then should i call myself a SF operator?

SF is a different thing all together..Having these rag tag rebels on our pay roll doesnt mean that they are our Special Force.I have already said that they might be under RAW but if you are saying that they are SG then sorry i am not buying that..SFF is run by the Army and SG has only PARA SF in their ranks..Kindly give me a link which backs your claim and i will believe what you said..Otherwise i am sorry its neither true nor is it believable.

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## Abingdonboy

> A team of eight Marine Commandos carried out Combat Free Fall from Dornier aircraft onboard INS Viraat while sailing in the Bay of Bengal more than 100 nm off the coast

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



So what is the size of teams Marcos operates in?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So what is the size of teams Marcos operates in?



6-8 figures seems to hold true.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> 6-8 figures seems to hold true.



Same as Para Commandos..can be true also coz there is a lot of training these two elite SF do together and Marcos changed the colour of their beret to Maroon...Btw i read somewhere that they operate in 4-6 man teams but my thinking is that it also depends on the mission.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sorry,i cant find the link where i read that but i have this video which you posted and it has 4 man teams all over.I also like the concept of 6-8 man teams coz it brings in more firepower but considering the nature of their ops specially Amphibious i dont think 6-8 man teams would be possible in most cases..I may be wrong also and i am all ears.

Indian Marine Commandos - MARCOS training - YouTube

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## Splurgenxs

Some neat pics ,dunno if posted yet.(google)

Mountain warfare.

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## Abingdonboy

Splurgenxs said:


> Some neat pics ,dunno if posted yet.(google)
> 
> Mountain warfare.



Cool but not Indian SOFs- post in Indian military picture thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/4905-indian-military-picture-thread.html

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sorry,i cant find the link where i read that but i have this video which you posted and it has 4 man teams all over.I also like the concept of 6-8 man teams coz it brings in more firepower but considering the nature of their ops specially Amphibious i dont think 6-8 man teams would be possible in most cases..I may be wrong also and i am all ears.
> 
> Indian Marine Commandos - MARCOS training - YouTube




Do you spot in this vid the MARCOs' jumping onto Viraat too. Seems like a pretty common practice then! 

+ in the jump vid I liked seeing the Viraat in the FLIR of the DO-228- a different perspective.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Do you spot in this vid the MARCOs' jumping onto Viraat too. Seems like a pretty common practice then!
> 
> + in the jump vid I liked seeing the Viraat in the FLIR of the DO-228- a different perspective.



Ya..but i was talking about the size of Marcos teams and i am still confused on it..Amphibious assaults in most scenarios has 4 member teams while in some other operations size seems to vary.

+The jump on Virat is what seperates them from others

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya..but i was talking about the size of Marcos teams and i am still confused on it..Amphibious assaults in most scenarios has 4 member teams while in some other operations size seems to vary.
> 
> +The jump on Virat is what seperates them from others



Well there is never going to be a "fixed size" by their very nature SOFs are unconventional so are not bound by stringent SOPs and the like so the size of the squad is always going to vary. The squad size will be adjusted to the mission just like the weapon choice is dependent on the mission.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Well there is never going to be a "fixed size" by their very nature SOFs are unconventional so are not bound by stringent SOPs and the like so the size of the squad is always going to vary. The squad size will be adjusted to the mission just like the weapon choice is dependent on the mission.



Thats what i was thinking while typing the previous comment but for some roles you can have fixed teams.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Indian Marine Commandos - MARCOS training - YouTube



Nice video but surprisingly video is missing the "Ship raiding and capture" OP which theses guies do the most  

One more question: the two guies coming otta water in (1+1)( not from boat) is that APS or AK ??? I am bad in identifying weapons


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Nice video but surprisingly video is missing the "Ship raiding and capture" OP which theses guies do the most
> 
> One more question: the two guies coming otta water in (1+1)( not from boat) is that APS or AK ??? I am bad in identifying weapons


 

A bit of that for 0.29- (for about 3 seconds!!)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> One more question: the two guies coming otta water in (1+1)( not from boat) is that APS or AK ??? I am bad in identifying weapons



Mention the time in the video.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mention the time in the video.


 
After 2.36. Doesn't remember the exact time. Will post if my 2g doesn't mind to load the video


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> One more question: the two guies coming otta water in (1+1)( not from boat) is that APS or AK ??? I am bad in identifying weapons



Buddy,i didnt see APS rifle anywhere..All is see is Ak series.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Buddy,i didnt see APS rifle anywhere..All is see is Ak series.


It's my mistake I should have seen the time 
No APS ... Ok. I though those two where coming outta water and from front angle the Mag look to big. So I though if I is APS or what. Wasn't sure so asked 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Buddy,i didnt see APS rifle anywhere..All is see is Ak series.


It's my mistake I should have seen the time 
No APS ... Ok. I though those two where coming outta water and from front angle the Mag look to big. So I though if I is APS or what. Wasn't sure so asked


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> It's my mistake I should have seen the time
> No APS ... Ok. I though those two where coming outta water and from front angle the Mag look to big. So I though if I is APS or what. Wasn't sure so asked
> 
> 
> It's my mistake I should have seen the time
> No APS ... Ok. I though those two where coming outta water and from front angle the Mag look to big. So I though if I is APS or what. Wasn't sure so asked



No problem...What about the Rocket launcher..you guessed it right?





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## Abingdonboy

^^^ SWEET!! Never seen this pic before!

+any more??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^^ SWEET!! Never seen this pic before!
> 
> +any more??



Searching...you know its my hobby to search for such pics when i am free

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No problem...What about the Rocket launcher..you guessed it right?


What do you mean ??? I too Never seen this image. It look 40mm UBGL right ???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> What do you mean ??? I too Never seen this image. It look 40mm UBGL right ???



I was talking about the video @ 4:05 minutes you see a Rocket launcher..did you guess it right?

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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> What do you mean ??? I too Never seen this image. It look 40mm UBGL right ???



Right-Turkish-made MKEK T-40 40 mm under-barrel grenade launchers

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Right-Turkish-made MKEK T-40 40 mm under-barrel grenade launchers


You can tell all that by seeing a pic ??? Including made  
You are too good or too crazy 

I am too bad with weapon identification  I can't even differentiate between AKs let alone the other 



Abingdonboy said:


> Right-Turkish-made MKEK T-40 40 mm under-barrel grenade launchers


You can tell all that by seeing a pic ??? Including made  
You are too good or too crazy 

I am too bad with weapon identification  I can't even differentiate between AKs let alone the other


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was talking about the video @ 4:05 minutes you see a Roucket launcher..did you guess it right?


Did see the GL but didn't think of that. I was Wondering between AK or APS  never seen a APS in action just heard of it. So though it might be


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> You can tell all that by seeing a pic ??? Including made
> You are too good or too crazy
> 
> I am too bad with weapon identification  I can't even differentiate between AKs let alone the other
> 
> 
> You can tell all that by seeing a pic ??? Including made
> You are too good or too crazy
> 
> I am too bad with weapon identification  I can't even differentiate between AKs let alone the other



There's only a few UBGLs in existence that look like this and some time back the news was it would be this type of UBGL for Indian Tavors (although I have seen pics of TAR-21s and M-4s in Indian SF hands with M203 UBGLs).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

A good read with pics of 71 war.

The flag flies high



Sergi said:


> Did see the GL but didn't think of that. I was Wondering between AK or APS  never seen a APS in action just heard of it. So though it might be




Army Guide - SHIPON, Anti-tank guided missile launcher


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I was chatting with my friend(who is in the Navy) on FB and the guy is too reluctant to share even a simple thing like which is the standard weapon of SPB.. 

Great job Indian intelligence agencies 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






ID This!






The thing lying next to the soldier on the left.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was chatting with my friend(who is in the Navy) on FB and the guy is too reluctant to share even a simple thing like which is the standard weapon of SPB..
> 
> Great job Indian intelligence agencies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ID This!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing lying next to the soldier on the left.



If I'm not wrong it is/should soon be the Tavor. And yeah face similar problems with some of my freinds/relations serving in Indian forces- IIRC FB usage is seriously frowned upon whilst serving and posting pics in uniform/on duty/on base is a strict no-no and there are serious repercussions if done not to mention such things are regulated very well by the forces/intel guys.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was chatting with my friend(who is in the Navy) on FB and the guy is too reluctant to share even a simple thing like which is the standard weapon of SPB..
> 
> Great job Indian intelligence agencies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ID This!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing lying next to the soldier on the left.




Looks like a camera tripod (probably nothing to do with the IA).





+guys let's try and keep this SF-related, there is an Indian military picture thread where these posts would be much appreciated.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> If I'm not wrong it is/should soon be the Tavor. And yeah face similar problems with some of my freinds/relations serving in Indian forces- IIRC FB usage is seriously frowned upon whilst serving and posting pics in uniform/on duty/on base is a strict no-no and there are serious repercussions if done not to mention such things are regulated very well by the forces/intel guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a camera tripod (probably nothing to do with the IA).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +guys let's try and keep this SF-related, there is an Indian military picture thread where these posts would be much appreciated.



I appreciate your concern but this is the only non-SF pic i posted and that too for ID coz in Indian Military Pictures thread i wont have got a quick reply...the shadow picture is of SF actually and above that with SHipon is also of Para SF.

BTW i was confused that it can be either a camera tripod or an anti material rifle..and i was thinking why would soldiers be carrrying a camera tripod but the photographer can i agree..but yeah i noticed something now which suggests that it is a camera tripod.




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## Abingdonboy

^^ hey no worries mate- just trying to keep this excellent thread on track, no offense meant.


+ cool pic- SF with Tavor in the valley.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^ hey no worries mate- just trying to keep this excellent thread on track, no offense meant.
> 
> 
> + cool pic- SF with Tavor in the valley.



None taken 

Yup SF with Tavor in valley.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I hope these are not posted before.














These pics are more than a decade old..so i am not blowing anyones cover.

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## Abingdonboy

^^ Cool to see UZI being used even back then!

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## Abingdonboy



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## MUHARIB

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I hope these are not posted before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These pics are more than a decade old..so i am not blowing anyones cover.



If you dont mind, can you gimme some background on this pic? If not here atleast on fb mate.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MUHARIB said:


> If you dont mind, can you gimme some background on this pic? If not here atleast on fb mate.



I have no detailed info on this mate but i can tell you this though that second pic is of a undercover team of PARA SF in Kashmir..can be in the Pir Panjal range where most of the infiltration is done.


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## MUHARIB

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have no detailed info on this mate but i can tell you this though that second pic is of a *undercover team of PARA SF* in Kashmir..can be in the Pir Panjal range where most of the infiltration is done.



Possibility of being SG?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MUHARIB said:


> Possibility of being SG?



They are Para SF.

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## jamesbaldwin

Abingdonboy said:


> I have read through the posts and done quite a bit of my own research and the only real conclusion I can come to is that there are no mercs in SG but foreign merc in SFF which comprises a cast array of different units. If you look into SFF you will see that SFF is not one uniformed standardized unit, instead it is more a amalgamation of different units with a huge range of specialties from CT, espionage, counter-espionage, intel gathering etc and could more than likely be comprised of foreign mercs. Whilst the unit named SG comprises a number of units such as support staff but the "shooters" are 100% Indian SOFs, there is no doubt in my mind of this. SG can be (to an extent) compared to Delta Force (or Army Compartmented Elements (ACE) as it is now called) as ACE does actually function 100% under the command of CIA although CIA has the SAD (simiarly R&AW has SFF).
> 
> 
> 
> + on a side note I have written on PDF about an encounter of mine when I was last in India involving and IA SF guy who I am now convinced was SG (of course he didn't even confirm this at all and was reluctant to even admit he was part of the Indian military in any way).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ++ Anyone who says we shouldn't trust the foreign mercs is being a bit ignorant- it is not about trust but utility. R&AW obviously see utility in keeping some of these guys around and I trust their judgement and am sure these guys aren't kept too well clued up wrt intel and do what they are told so there is little risk of national secruty breach.



Any chance of sharing this encounter??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

IA PARA SF in Yudh Abhyas 2010

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## Harry Potter

Dark Warrior said:


> MARCOS,PARA SF are just boys when compared to the special force under the RAW's SFF Called the Special Group(SG).
> 
> BTW can anybody conform the very strong rumors that there are Central Asian(mainly Tajiks and Uzbeks) mercenary commando units in the Special Group(SG).
> 
> @ arcelite,Special Group(SG) is Black ops team.


You may be right.
Because when ahmad shah masood send his foreign minister to India he promised that if India helps them he will send his fighters to India to fight Pakistan.

RAW used it's covert units to spy on the kunduz airlift.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Harry Potter said:


> You may be right.
> Because when ahmad shah masood send his foreign minister to India he promised that if India helps them he will send his fighters to India to fight Pakistan.
> 
> RAW used it's covert units to spy on the kunduz airlift.



But that is the Norther Alliance you are talking about.Someone was saying that its not the Northern Alliance but fighters from Central Asian countries.Moreover everyone agrees that RAW would have such people working for them.


----------



## marcos98

Nice vid:

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## Koovie

I know it has been posted last year, but what is the sniper rifle at 14:05 min ???
I know that NSG uses PSG sniper rifles but that one doesnt look like one


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## saumyasupratik

Koovie said:


> I know it has been posted last year, but what is the sniper rifle at 14:05 min ???
> I know that NSG uses PSG sniper rifles but that one doesnt look like one



That is a PSG-1

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## Harry Potter

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> But that is the Norther Alliance you are talking about.Someone was saying that its not the Northern Alliance but fighters from Central Asian countries.Moreover everyone agrees that RAW would have such people working for them.


Northern alliance consists mainly of tajiks and uzbeks who are a central asian race.
Anyways Northern alliance is more loosely knit than taliban so it's fighters are actually under command of one warlord or the another.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Harry Potter said:


> Northern alliance consists mainly of tajiks and uzbeks who are a central asian race.
> Anyways Northern alliance is more loosely knit than taliban so it's fighters are actually under command of one warlord or the another.



So according to you the NA is the source for these guys in RAW?


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## Harry Potter

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So according to you the NA is the source for these guys in RAW?



The same source through which NA recruits these men.NA didn't consitst of Tajiks and uzbeks living in afghanistan only.
It had several fighters from a very big country north of central asia.


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## Abingdonboy

Old vid which I'm sure most have seen but for those who haven't here's a treat:






MARCOs, and this was back in *2006*!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

A good read on the Indian Para Commandos.

http://www.indianmilitaryhistory.org/regiments/Indian Army AirborneSF.pdf



Abingdonboy said:


> Old vid which I'm sure most have seen but for those who haven't here's a treat:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARCOs, and this was back in *2006*!!




indian special forces 1 - YouTube


Special forces - seg 2 - YouTube

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Garuds

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## DESERT FIGHTER

All their uniforms look similiar?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Maj Mohit Sharma-RIP








Pakistani Nationalist said:


> All their uniforms look similiar?



Yup,they are Garuds.They dont wear the other camo which Army owns.









IA PARA SF











NSG and GARUDs







2nd from left is Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Maj Mohit Sharma-RIP



Good find, had posted these pics a while back but they were deleted because of their sensitive nature. Like the camo'd Tavor.

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Good find, had posted these pics a while back but they were deleted because of their sensitive nature. Like the camo'd Tavor.


RPI 
is that Micro ???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Good find, had posted these pics a while back but they were deleted because of their sensitive nature. Like the camo'd Tavor.



Ohh..are they?Should i delete it too?


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## janon

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Maj Mohit Sharma-RIP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup,they are Garuds.They dont wear the other camo which Army owns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IA PARA SF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG and GARUDs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2nd from left is Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan



Who, the guy with the mustache? Doesn't look like Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan at all. This is him:


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ohh..are they?Should i delete it too?


Better blur the face than del. it's a good pic but we should consider the sentiments of the family


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Better blur the face than del. it's a good pic but we should consider the sentiments of the family


 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ohh..are they?Should i delete it too?



Idk to be honest. It should be okay because the pic you have posted is not particarly revealing and there is no need to conceal his identity as,sadly, he has already passed on. The pics I saw before that were taken down en masse as a whole showed other operators and that too in the field and given they were in JK and seemed to be/getting ready to operating undercover. Should be okay IMHO.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Better blur the face than del. it's a good pic but we should consider the sentiments of the family



Dude, i dont know where am i going wrong on this but he is no more and i think this pic shows how much pain a IA soldier takes serving him motherland...There is nothing to hide in this pic as he is no more and the world knows we have Tavors and nowadays the Para uses Camoed Tavor..there are 100s of pics of Tavors on the net already.Regarding his family the thing is that this pic was posted by his family only on his website.

Major Mohit Sharma | www.majormohitsharma.org



janon said:


> Who, the guy with the mustache? Doesn't look like Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan at all. This is him:



What about this?

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude, i dont know where am i going wrong on this but he is no more and i think this pic shows how much pain a IA soldier takes serving him motherland...There is nothing to hide in this pic as he is no more and the world knows we have Tavors and nowadays the Para uses Camoed Tavor..there are 100s of pics of Tavors on the net already.Regarding his family the *thing is that this pic was posted by his family only on his website*.
> 
> Major Mohit Sharma | www.majormohitsharma.org


Didn't know the Bolded part. Thanks for that web. 
But my question is still there. Is that Micro Tavor ???
N


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Didn't know the Bolded part. Thanks for that web.
> But my question is still there. *Is that Micro Tavor* ???
> N



I don't believe it is, just there is white camo on the barrel which throws you a bit. Looks like standard issue TAR-21.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Didn't know the Bolded part. Thanks for that web.
> But my question is still there. Is that Micro Tavor ???
> N



I dont think its a Micro Tavor.

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## MUHARIB

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ohh..are they?Should i delete it too?



I dont think you ll have to delete these. They were other pictures put up in Maj Mohit's site, i copied them, those were definitely sensitive, but this is alrite i guess.


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## Abingdonboy

MUHARIB said:


> I dont think you ll have to delete these. They were other pictures put up in Maj Mohit's site, i copied them, those were definitely sensitive, but this is alrite i guess.



Yeah, that's right- intially Major Mohit's website had a number of pictures showing him and his unit on ops which clearly is not on (in a public space) so the family must have been instructed by the IA to take them down but the ones where he is on his own are not really that sensitive IMHO as his identity is known and, unfortunately, he has passed on.


This is sort of censorship wrt to Indian SOFs is happening more and more. There was a video I posted last year here that was of IN VBSS teams being trained by MARCOs but it was removed not long after being posted. On YT I PMed the guy who had originally posted the vid and he told me he had deleted it after receiving an official email from the MoD saying he was violating the law and that he should immediately take down the vid of face very serious repercussions. Same thing has happened to a number of my freinds and family who posted pics on FB of themselves in their uniforms (not on deployment just in their uniform). I am told though that this used to be a real issue in early days when FB was getting big in India in the early days but recently all military personal are warned by their seniors and it is official policy which they all know.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah, that's right- intially Major Mohit's website had a number of pictures showing him and his unit on ops which clearly is not on (in a public space) so the family must have been instructed by the IA to take them down but the ones where he is on his own are not really that sensitive IMHO as his identity is known and, unfortunately, he has passed on.
> 
> 
> This is sort of censorship wrt to Indian SOFs is happening more and more. There was a video I posted last year here that was of IN VBSS teams being trained by MARCOs but it was removed not long after being posted. On YT I PMed the guy who had originally posted the vid and he told me he had deleted it after receiving an official email from the MoD saying he was violating the law and that he should immediately take down the vid of face very serious repercussions. Same thing has happened to a number of my freinds and family who posted pics on FB of themselves in their uniforms (not on deployment just in their uniform). I am told though that this used to be a real issue in early days when FB was getting big in India in the early days but recently all military personal are warned by their seniors and it is official policy which they all know.



You are 100% right.My friend in the Navy was very cautious of sharing anything.He didnt even tell me about SPB and their standard rifle same goes for my relatives who already dont share anything even when face to face 

The thing is that the security agencies are really scrutinising everything on the net.I think whatever we post here also gets scrutinised and the Navy friend of mine even went on to the extent of saying that even if he shares somethings he will land up in big trouble and we already know how secretive they are.

Anyways this video of Major Mohit Sharma is really special.I really love this song..Anyone knows who the singer is and what is the track name?

Pictures of Major Mohit Sharma - YouTube

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You are 100% right.My friend in the Navy was very cautious of sharing anything.He didnt even tell me about SPB and their standard rifle same goes for my relatives who already dont share anything even when face to face
> 
> The thing is that the security agencies are really scrutinising everything on the net.I think whatever we post here also gets scrutinised and the Navy friend of mine even went on to the extent of saying that even if he shares somethings he will land up in big trouble and we already know how secretive they are.
> 
> Anyways this video of Major Mohit Sharma is really special.I really love this song..Anyone knows who the singer is and what is the track name?
> 
> Pictures of Major Mohit Sharma - YouTube





Guns N' Roses- "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"

Awesome video, very touching.

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## MUHARIB

I guess they are MARCOS. Or i might be wrong they might be VBSS too. These pics are from INS Sahyahdri i guess.

And also can someone ID the thingy in the first pic near the barrel. It looks like UBGL release lever.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MUHARIB said:


> I guess they are MARCOS. Or i might be wrong they might be VBSS too. These pics are from INS Sahyahdri i guess.



They are Sagar Prahari Bal of the IN.

Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Abingdonboy

MUHARIB said:


> And also can someone ID the thingy in the first pic near the barrel. It looks like UBGL release lever.



AFAIK that is an iron sight to aim the UBGL (if I am looking at the same thing you are)

+ they are SBP not MARCOs AFAIK.


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## david blain

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Garuds



Is this a special training i mean they all are firing from left hand ????


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

david blain said:


> Is this a special training i mean they all are firing from left hand ????



In Indian Army even the regular soldiers have to fire from left hand as this skill is very useful specially in an urban situation..and these are SF of the IAF so you can expect them to know a lot more tricks than this.

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## Abingdonboy

david blain said:


> Is this a special training i mean they all are firing from left hand ????



Nothing special, they (along with pretty much every infantryman in IA) have to be able to fire from either hand and in multiple positions ie standing, crouching, prone position etc

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

For those who didnt know..Presidents body guards are trained Paratroopers some belonging to the Special forces and this unit is equipped with BTR 60.It is the highest unit in terms of seniority in the IA.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> For those who didnt know..Presidents body guards are trained Paratroopers belonging to the Special forces and this unit is equipped with BTR 60.It is the highest unit in terms of seniority in the IA.



IIRC PBG are pathfinders and hence trained in airborne ops but are not SFs (the badge may be superficial or they have undertaken SF training but are not "true" SFs) and not used in this way anyways.

+ This is Col. T. S. Mundi, current CO of the regiment- no SF badges for him so it may be restricted to a handful men who have undertaken SF training, just like the "RANGER" tab in US (not exactly the same I know).









Little anecdote- when the PBG was called Governor Generals Body guards (GGBG), because of the personality & appearance of the men, popular acronym of GGBG was:
* Gods Gift to Beautiful Girls.*


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> IIRC PBG are pathfinders and hence trained in airborne ops but are not SFs (the badge may be superficial or they have undertaken SF training but are not "true" SFs) and not used in this way anyways.
> 
> + This is Col. T. S. Mundi, current CO of the regiment- no SF badges for him so it may be restricted to a handful men who have undertaken SF training, just like the "RANGER" tab in US (not exactly the same I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little anecdote- when the PBG was called Governor General&#8217;s Body guards (GGBG), because of the personality & appearance of the men, popular acronym of GGBG was:
> * &#8216;God&#8217;s Gift to Beautiful Girls&#8217;.*



All are not SF..Its silly to say that they are a SF unit..I was saying that some of them are SF trained.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> All are not SF..Its silly to say that they are a SF unit..I was saying that some of them are SF trained.



That's actually what_ I_ myself was trying to say!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> That's actually what_ I_ myself was trying to say!!



But you got my comment wrong..thats what i was trying to tell you that i didnt call them a SF unit.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> But you got my comment wrong..thats what i was trying to tell you that i didnt call them a SF unit.



Alright, fair enough


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Its like SPG and NSG (role different)


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## Tshering22

Bhairava said:


> Actually what I heard is not even alll NE Indians can get into that.
> 
> Only those of Tibetan origin - Tibetan refugees, Ladakhis,*Sikkimese *& Arunachalis.People who can carry themselves as Tibetans behind enemy lines.
> 
> But I don't have any link but heard from a friend of a friend in North Block.



We ain't of Tibetan origin. Who told you that?  Tibetans historically weren't different from us. It is just that modern borders created what is Tibet, Myanmar, Southeast Asia etc.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Abingdonboy

^nice one mate!!


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## Abingdonboy

I am led to believe this is a very old pic of MARCOs during a training mission:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^nice one mate!!



Not as nice as your Marcos video 

My prediction is that you are gonna find a F-INSAS video and become the first one to post it here.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not as nice as your Marcos video
> 
> My prediction is that you are gonna find a F-INSAS video and become the first one to post it here.



I hope so, would love to see F-INSAS in action/real life!!


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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Para Commandos in this video

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## Abingdonboy

^ Cool even for a 2 year old vid-Tavors everywhere you look!! With the odd Galil thrown in for good measure!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^ Cool even for a 2 year old vid-Tavors everywhere you look!! With the odd Galil thrown in for good measure!



I have watched the last 20 seconds of the clip 30 times now...The comradery is worth appreciating..Secondly the weapons,the gear etc is cool even though this is a 2 year old video.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have watched the last 20 seconds of the clip 30 times now..*.The comradery is worth appreciating.*.Secondly the weapons,the gear etc is cool even though this is a 2 year old video.



Yeah I saw the guys wlecomeing the guys coming back from ops very warmly- heart-warming to see. Hardcore warriors one minuet, warm freindly characters the next!


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## Ajaxpaul




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## JonAsad

Ajaxpaul said:


>



Your special forces doesnt have a standard gear?-
So unprofessional-


----------



## Abingdonboy

JonAsad said:


> Your special forces doesnt have a standard gear?-
> So unprofessional-



It's a fair point but a bit immature and naive. Actions are the only way to rate armies and espceially SOFs and if this is the case then Indian SOFs are up there with the best. It is true that in JK standards for uniforms are laxed but so what? A bullet is going to have the same trajectory when fired from soldiers in identical camo to those in this sort of dress. 


Uniformity will be there when needed (NOTE some of the pics are NOT SF but regular airborne units):





























(IN MARCOs)

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## ANPP

JonAsad said:


> Your special forces doesnt have a standard gear?-
> So unprofessional-


 
What is standard gear??????

&it is RR not SOF.


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## angeldemon_007

^^^
Don't get defensive man...the first couple of soldiers in that pic are SF actually. The real badass SF don't really stay in their uniforms most of the time. Have you seen US delta force and seals in afghanistan ? They wear clothes that help them to wear or that makes them comfortable and they carry lots of ammunition.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Guys,In the IA only the Para Commandos can dress like that...RR jawans dont have that luxury.


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## ANPP

angeldemon_007 said:


> ^^^
> Don't get defensive man...the first couple of soldiers in that pic are SF actually. The real badass SF don't really stay in their uniforms most of the time. Have you seen US delta force and seals in afghanistan ? They wear clothes that help them to wear or that makes them comfortable and they carry lots of ammunition.


 
I am taking about Ajaxpaul picture.


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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


>



Man what is this vehicle?? Is it the OT-62/64 APC?


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## Abingdonboy

gessler said:


> Man what is this vehicle?? Is it the OT-62/64 APC?



It's a US Stryker, pic was taken during a US-INDIA joint exercise.


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## david blain

ANPP said:


> I am taking about Ajaxpaul picture.



They are para sf not rr


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

david blain said:


> They are para sf not rr



Yes,the guy carrying the PKM proves that right.I have never seen RR using PKM but PARA SF use PKM and they have them in good numbers too.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hi guys,I was going through a Martial Arts website where i saw the trainers who specalise in a lethal Combat system training Indian Commandos.The thing is that i am not very confident about the identity of these guys..I think they are either Garuds or PARA cant be Marcos...i am doubtful of them being PARA but then Garuds are not known to be so secretive that they will hide their faces even for a training session...Sounds like a "top secret" unit....Please guys if possibe while guessing give the reasons too.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Hi guys,I was going through a Martial Arts website where i saw the trainers who specalise in a lethal Combat system training Indian Commandos.The thing is that i am not very confident about the identity of these guys..I think they are either Garuds or PARA cant be Marcos...i am doubtful of them being PARA but then Garuds are not known to be so secretive that they will hide their faces even for a training session...Sounds like a "top secret" unit....Please guys if possibe while guessing give the reasons too.



My most educated guess would be PARA (SF) we have seen the black PT t-shirts with "COMMANDO" emblazened on them with 21 PARA (SF) in past videos and I think I can just about make out the PARA (SF) 'Balidaan' (Sacrifice) badge on the chest of the far left guy. It would be interesting to know who the other guys are as they seem to be a foreign unit and the fact one of them has "K-9" written on them makes it more perplexing.


+I'd say the Garuds were as secretive as the rest of the Indian SOFs and military as a whole.

^^ scratch that- I have reviewed my source and it turns out the PT kit of the PARA (SF) is a black shirt but with "SPECIAL FORCES" emblazoned on it and in white/yellow writing. Does not rule out PARA (SF) completely but throws a spanner in the works.


+Maybe NSG?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> My most educated guess would be PARA (SF) we have seen the black PT t-shirts with "COMMANDO" emblazened on them with 21 PARA (SF) in past videos and I think I can just about make out the PARA (SF) 'Balidaan' (Sacrifice) badge on the chest of the far left guy. It would be interesting to know who the other guys are as they seem to be a foreign unit and the fact one of them has "K-9" written on them makes it more perplexing.
> 
> 
> +I'd say the Garuds were as secretive as the rest of the Indian SOFs and military as a whole.
> 
> ^^ scratch that- I have reviewed my source and it turns out the PT kit of the PARA (SF) is a black shirt but with "SPECIAL FORCES" emblazoned on it and in white/yellow writing. Does not rule out PARA (SF) completely but throws a spanner in the works.
> 
> 
> +Maybe NSG?



The trainers are Martial Arts trainers and have travelled around the globe.I have seen them training everyone from Delhi SWAT to Para SF to NSG and Garuds.

I also saw that balidan badge but then i realised that the Para SF have Special forces written on the back...Secondly the Camo one guy is wearing (lighter one) is very common with the Garuds and i see a Glock in the hands of a guy on the left which is very common with Garuds...So my guess was garuds.

+Maybe they have raised a top secret unit...Hiding their faces in training sessions...  Not even showing their faces to their Martial arts trainer...I know they are civilians but still.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The trainers are Martial Arts trainers and have travelled around the globe.I have seen them training everyone from Delhi SWAT to Para SF to NSG and Garuds.
> 
> I also saw that balidan badge but then i realised that the Para SF have Special forces written on the back...Secondly the Camo one guy is wearing (lighter one) is very common with the Garuds and i see a Glock in the hands of a guy on the left which is very common with Garuds...So my guess was garuds.
> 
> +Maybe they have raised a top secret unit...Hiding their faces in training sessions...  Not even showing their faces to their Martial arts trainer...I know they are civilians but still.



I think Garuds are unlikely, IIRC they have green PT shirts and too have "SPECIAL FORCES" written on them. Purpose of balaclavas may be because the guys new they were going to have their pictures taken.I am leaning towards NSG tbh.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I think Garuds are unlikely, IIRC they have green PT shirts and too have "SPECIAL FORCES" written on them. Purpose of balaclavas may be because the guys new they were going to have their pictures taken.I am leaning towards NSG tbh.



But they are wearing Camo...NSG guys dont wear camo apart from the first few weeks where they are tested.


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## david blain

SPG and NSG

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## Water Car Engineer

* Cobra Commandos CRPF*

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Sir lurk a lot where did you get these pics? Are they from a vid? If so can you post/share the vide??!!



Nice job all the same!!X-95- drooling!!!

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## Doctor Death

Guys any response to this thread?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/204243-has-indian-army-disbanded-pro-india-kashmir-militias.html


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## Abingdonboy

Sir LurkaLot said:


>




Interesting- looks to be a M320 UBGL and not the standard Ak-47 M6 UGBL.

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## Abingdonboy

^^ 

found it!!


CRPF COBRAS:












for a CAPF unit-V.nice!!!

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Water Car Engineer

HOLY **** Abingdonboy. Awesome finds!!!! 

I got the pics from MP.net. I didn't find the videos. Thanks.

Are all of those video unique, or repeats?


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## Abingdonboy

Sir LurkaLot said:


> HOLY **** Abingdonboy. Awesome finds!!!!
> 
> I got the pics from MP.net. I didn't find the videos. Thanks.
> 
> Are all of those video unique, or repeats?



Well watch them and find out!! 


+seriously though they are all unique (except maybe the last 2 which I have not had the chance to watch, they have unique titles but I'm unsure about the content).

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## Killswitch

Cobras seem to have some of the best camo of any paramilitary organization, even better than the IA's.

I think the way the FN mag is deployed is wasteful. It should have a butt, optics, and an ammo box. It should only take one man to use it ( one of the bigger stronger troops of course).


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## dekho

Killswitch said:


> Cobras seem to have some of the best camo of any paramilitary organization, even better than the IA's.
> 
> I think the way the FN mag is deployed is wasteful. It should have a butt, optics, and an ammo box. It should only take one man to use it ( one of the bigger stronger troops of course).


 
The version of FNMAG you are asking for is not yet available in the inventory of Indian forces. 
M240 which is used by the US army is a man portable version of FNMAG.












This is what CoBRA and rest of the Armed Forces need to replace thier LMGs with.



Killswitch said:


> It should have a butt, *optics*, and an ammo box.



The use of optics in dense jungles is ridiculous. the visibility is already limited due to dense foliage and the soldiers need to scan their surroundings rapidly, and an optical sight/scope would be useless in close combats of jungles. And anyways the wet surroundings, mud, fog would totally ruin the lenses.


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## Killswitch

Maybe India should clone the M240 then. As for the optics, perhaps a robust thermal sight could be used, to see hidden enemies in the jungle.


Thanks for replying and the pics.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Nice gear and equipments but they talk too loud for a SF..anyways they are fighting India's internal war so doesnt matter.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nice gear and equipments but they talk too loud for a SF..anyways they are fighting India's internal war so doesnt matter.



They're aren't even SF.


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## holysaturn

the m-240 is actually a clone of the fn-mag and OFB already manufactures MAG machine guns................. IA FINSAS RFI for 7.62mm lmg has been issued http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/41/rfi-iv-180110.pdf ,the contenders to watch out would be iwi negev,fn minimi and perhaps mg-4 if a 7.62 variant exists........


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## Kompromat

Thread re-named and stuck.

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## Abingdonboy

Aeronaut said:


> Thread re-named and stuck.



Cool man, a welcome move.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> They're aren't even SF.



The fat dude said that in every sentence...Was comparing his SF with the best in the world.This is what happens when a undeserving guy is given such post.The Army is fighting for years to remove all these IPS guys from NSG but no joy.

I didnt even bother watching the 2nd clip after what i saw in the first clip...No disrespect but this guy is way too arrogant than he should be..Even Gorkha Ghataks can give his guys a run for their money and he thinks he is even better than MARSOC guys.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The fat dude said that in every sentence...Was comparing his SF with the best in the world.This is what happens when a undeserving guy is given such post.The Army is fighting for years to remove all these IPS guys from NSG but no joy.
> 
> I didnt even bother watching the 2nd clip after what i saw in the first clip...No disrespect but this guy is way too arrogant than he should be..Even Gorkha Ghataks can give his guys a run for their money and he thinks he is even better than MARSOC guys.



I agree, just because he has seen too many Hollywood flicks and done some Wiki reading on SAS and SEALS doesn't mean jack. The COBRAs clearly aren't SF, he knows it we know it- there are only 3 true blue SOFs in India and COBRA isn't one of them- they're not meant to be SF anyway FFS! They are law enforcement!! This guys is a bit of a joke to keep comparing his unit to SEALS and others, there just isn't any need to being doing so. I'm not too keen on this guy myself but he seems to have raised a decent and effective unit so I'll let his BS slide. He just needs to go and park him self at his desk (where he clearly has been for some time, given the size of his waist and the panting whilt trying to show off to the cameras- who's he trying to fool?!!). 

The funny thing is, you'd never catch anyone from the "true" SOFs in India talking like this, they're too modest, fond of secrecy and mystery for their own good lol!!!


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## AnkurPandey

-- wrong forum --


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I agree, just because he has seen too many Hollywood flicks and done some Wiki reading on SAS and SEALS doesn't mean jack. The COBRAs clearly aren't SF, he knows it we know it- there are only 3 true blue SOFs in India and COBRA isn't one of them- they're not meant to be SF anyway FFS! They are law enforcement!! This guys is a bit of a joke to keep comparing his unit to SEALS and others, there just isn't any need to being doing so. I'm not too keen on this guy myself but he seems to have raised a decent and effective unit so I'll let his BS slide. He just needs to go and park him self at his desk (where he clearly has been for some time, given the size of his waist and the panting whilt trying to show off to the cameras- who's he trying to fool?!!).
> 
> The funny thing is, you'd never catch anyone from the "true" SOFs in India talking like this, they're too modest, fond of secrecy and mystery for their own good lol!!!



Yup thatswhy i didnt even watch the second clip...He has a big mouth and his every dialogue proves that he doesnt deserve to be here.Btw he hasnt raised the unit.He is only with the unit for 2 years and the unit was raised 3.5 years ago.

But overall i felt like it is a choreographed show and its a good step for propoganda purposes coz this channel will be wathced in rural India and is a good weapon for Psycological warfare.

But other than that i have respect for them as they are making a great sacrifce staying away from their families and fighting India's war would have loved if some of them are a little humble.

They got trained by Indian Army's Infantry officers and soldiers in the Chattisgarh Battle School and now after wearing imported uniforms they think they are better than MARSOC guys is laughable...I wish the fat guy gets to meet MARCOS and PARA COMMANDOS one day.

P.S-I have seen the fat dude in Kashmir...he used to wear the same 2 stars on his helmet in Srinagar.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yup thatswhy i didnt even watch the second clip...He has a big mouth and his every dialogue proves that he doesnt deserve to be here.Btw he hasnt raised the unit.He is only with the unit for 2 years and the unit was raised 3.5 years ago.
> 
> But overall i felt like it is a choreographed show and its a good step for propoganda purposes coz this channel will be wathced in rural India and is a good weapon for Psycological warfare.
> 
> But other than that i have respect for them as they are making a great sacrifce staying away from their families and fighting India's war would have loved if some of them are a little humble.
> 
> They got trained by Indian Army's Infantry officers and soldiers in the Chattisgarh Battle School and now after wearing imported uniforms they think they are better than MARSOC guys is laughable...I wish the fat guy gets to meet MARCOS and PARA COMMANDOS one day.
> 
> *P.S-I have seen the fat dude in Kashmir...he used to wear the same 2 stars on his helmet in Srinagar.*



HAHAH, you don't mean this guy do you??







Some old IA SF pics (from 2005/6 I think), some are of training, some are of actual ops:

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## Abingdonboy

CRPF COBRA:


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## Abingdonboy

More oldies,MARCOs:

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## Abingdonboy



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## david blain

Abingdonboy said:


>



regular infantry ?


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## Roybot

Abingdonboy said:


>



NBC warfare gear?


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## Abingdonboy

Roybot said:


> NBC warfare gear?



No, he just got off a helo so the common practice is to have goggles on- face mask and gloves are because of the cold.



david blain said:


> regular infantry ?



No, PARA (AIRBORNE) not SF or regular infantry. On day infantry will look like this (or better) but not today

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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> More oldies,MARCOs:



Cant this boat be deflated while in transit? Its supposed to be like the Zodiac boat of US/NATO forces right?


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## ANPP

^^^^^ ITBP & BSF are border security forces not special force.


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## Capt.Popeye

gessler said:


> Cant this boat be deflated while in transit? Its supposed to be like the Zodiac boat of US/NATO forces right?



What is your exact question? 
Can it be deliberately deflated? Yes it can be. Can it be punctured? Even that can happen, though it has more than one buoyancy chamber; allowing patch and plug repairs to be carried out and the re-inflated.
Its in fact one kind of Zodiac. That is the name that the IN uses for it, but it is generic now. IN has Zodiacs made in India.

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## Abingdonboy

steefen said:


> Some special force in India. Like as a ITBP, BSF,. This is special forces in indian defence department.


There are only :true SOFs in India- IA SF, IAF SF (Garuds) and IN SF (MARCOS). There is also "SPECIAL GROUP" but the less said about them the better.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Jason bourne

paras

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## Jason bourne




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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


>



Mate, last 2 pics are of RR or regular IA, not SF.


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## Gessler

Jason bourne said:


>







Dhruv goes to Siachen with Army SFs -


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## Abingdonboy

gessler said:


>



This pic is of a HAL test flight not SF- look at the livery.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate, last 2 pics are of RR or regular IA, not SF.



Actually i want to post this pics in india military pics thread ... posted here by mistk

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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Actually i want to post this pics in india military pics thread ... posted here by mistk



Fair enough mate.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> HAHAH, you don't mean this guy do you??



Yup i think thats him.



Abingdonboy said:


>



I wish you had the Hi-Resolution of this.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yup i think thats him.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish you had the Hi-Resolution of this.


Me too lol!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> Actually i want to post this pics in india military pics thread ... posted here by mistk



Actually you posted the SF pic with a question asking whether the are Regular Infantry and when you posted Regular Infantry pic you labelled them as PARA.

The Regulars/Infantrymen dont have Tavor.

Whenever identifying a soldier keep a few things in mind:-

1.The weapon he is carrying.
2.Epaulette/Beret or badges.
3.The way he is dressed up.

If you keep these 3 things in mind you will never make a mistake identifying a soldier.

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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Actually you posted the SF pic with a question asking whether the are Regular Infantry and when you posted Regular Infantry pic you labelled them as PARA.
> 
> The Regulars/Infantrymen dont have Tavor.
> 
> Whenever identifying a soldier keep a few things in mind:-
> 
> 1.The weapon he is carrying.
> 2.Epaulette/Beret or badges.
> 3.The way he is dressed up.
> 
> If you keep these 3 things in mind you will never make a mistake identifying a soldier.



the pic on which i question marked was posted by abingboy  by the way thanks for your tip .. got your wi-fi ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> the pic on which i question marked was posted by abingboy  by the way thanks for your tip .. got your wi-fi ?




Haha..Oh its you  

Nope...They had some technical probs so they didnt come...using the Photon which i had earlier.


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## Abingdonboy

Anyone got pics of the ongoing/recently concluded annual joint Indo-US SOF excersise? Was meant to have taken place in early August. Think it's called Exercise Vajra Prahar-similar Yudh Abhays series but exclusively for SOFs.

btw guys found a cool vid of Vajra Prahar 2011:






Vajra Prahar on Vimeo

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

^^KICKASS!!

PARA SF has a lot of influence from the Israeli SF and now you can see the US influence also.Its also coz the the PARA SF train a lot with the Israeli's and now the US.A lot of excercises with the Israelis are kept secret for obvious reasons and its good to see the PARA's come a long way in terms of equipment and training from before.

The Para's have a slight arrogance in their behaviour which i have always liked.

I had a feeling after watching the clip again and again that these are not regular PARA SF after watching the clip...something made me feel that...I felt like they are not from 1 unit...

Its my personal observation and i wont be getting into detail coz we have a lot of people here complaining about mainiting secrecy and all...but thats my personal observation.

Already there is a lot of stuff happening in the training and equipment deptt which all of us will get to see in the near future.

Overall i loved the video and was waiting for something like this for a long time.Didnt really like the Cobra video...and i liked the line in the clip..."We are fighting the same enemy in the end"

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ^^KICKASS!!
> 
> PARA SF has a lot of influence from the Israeli SF and now you can see the US influence also.Its also coz the the PARA SF train a lot with the Israeli's and now the US.A lot of excercises with the Israelis are kept secret for obvious reasons and its good to see the PARA's come a long way in terms of equipment and training from before.
> 
> The Para's have a slight arrogance in their behaviour which i have always liked.
> 
> I had a feeling after watching the clip again and again that these are not regular PARA SF after watching the clip...something made me feel that...I felt like they are not from 1 unit...
> 
> Its my personal observation and i wont be getting into detail coz we have a lot of people here complaining about mainiting secrecy and all...but thats my personal observation.
> 
> Already there is a lot of stuff happening in the training and equipment deptt which all of us will get to see in the near future.
> 
> Overall i loved the video and was waiting for something like this for a long time.Didnt really like the Cobra video...and i liked the line in the clip..."We are fighting the same enemy in the end"



I was thikning it was maybe a few different PARA (SF) units as the officla news said it was 3 PARA (SF) but the IA SF officer is said to be from 4 PARA (SF). And the line * "We are fighting the same enemy in the end"* stuck out for me too. 


+could you email me with your reasoing that you are uneasy to post here?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I was thikning it was maybe a few different PARA (SF) units as the officla news said it was 3 PARA (SF) but the IA SF officer is said to be from 4 PARA (SF). And the line * "We are fighting the same enemy in the end"* stuck out for me too.
> 
> 
> +could you email me with your reasoing that you are uneasy to post here?



Sure..I will!

+ The biggest improvement i see in Para SF when i compare them with the PARA's of 90s is the education.Now even the soldiers can communicate and write in English and other languages easily and this is a big thing to achieve coz most of our soldiers come from rural areas where they have Hindi medium schools.

So the Army is making a lot of effort to not only give them kickass training,exposure and weaponry but also making them well educated and confident individuals.

I think its a great move in the end.A move which will not only help them in communicating with soldiers from other Armies but will help them after retirement if they have a degree and know English very well.

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## Abingdonboy

see below.....

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

..................................................


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> If you could please post the room intervention pics from the same clip.



Mate if you could can you delete this post with the quote with the unedited pics in it.Thanks.


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## cloud_9

Not sure if these pics are already posted so let me know!
Ex. Vajra Prahar


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## cloud_9




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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


>


 
colt M4 why no magazine ?


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## Jason bourne

Indira Gandhi (best PM of india) with 1 Para SF.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate if you could can you delete this post with the quote with the unedited pics in it.Thanks.



Done that.

BTW what do you think..is inducting M4 alongwith Tavors a sensible thing to do?Isnt it complicating the whole system by having a variety of weapons for the same purpose.



cloud_9 said:


>



This pic stands out for me.

In this pic a Naik and a Sepoy are having a discussion with the American counterparts.The reason it stands out is because i used to believe that our soldiers being from Hindi medium schools wont be able to communicate with their counterparts in an excercise and i thought it takes out the fun out of an excercise.

But i am really surprised to see the IA SF Operators communicate with their American counterparts easily and quite confidently.We should really appreciate the Army for making the effort.A little while ago there was the news of Army deciding to educated its troops with a graduation degree.I can see it making a difeerence to not only the soldiers life after retirement but also serving the Army.



cloud_9 said:


>




Nice to see the highest ranking official in a battalion with the Sniper rifle.

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## Abingdonboy

^^ wrt to the TAR-21 vs M4 debate and simultaneous induction. The logistics shouldn't be a huge issue wrt ammo as they both chamber the 5.56mm round and IIRC Indian SOFs get almost all there 5.56mm rounds fro Israel including standard rounds but also steel-tipped rounds and incendiary rounds among others. AFAIK the M4 is preferred for airborne operations ie sky diving as with its foldable butt and lighter weight it is more suited to these ops. As we have seen the IA SF train with both rifles and all operators are proficient in both types. Given that both rifles are still being inducted is testament to the fact that the IA SF still has utility for both. Theese guys are weapons experts and are experts in numerous weapon types and ARs.


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> colt M4 why no magazine ?



A training mission, this is just a run-through.



cloud_9 said:


> Not sure if these pics are already posted so let me know!
> Ex. Vajra Prahar



Mate these pics were posted but it is cool to see them again anyways!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^ wrt to the TAR-21 vs M4 debate and simultaneous induction. The logistics shouldn't be a huge issue wrt ammo as they both chamber the 5.56mm round and IIRC Indian SOFs get almost all there 5.56mm rounds fro Israel including standard rounds but also steel-tipped rounds and incendiary rounds among others. AFAIK the M4 is preferred for airborne operations ie sky diving as with its foldable butt and lighter weight it is more suited to these ops. As we have seen the IA SF train with both rifles and all operators are proficient in both types. Given that both rifles are still being inducted is testament to the fact that the IA SF still has utility for both. Theese guys are weapons experts and are experts in numerous weapon types and ARs.



What sights does IA use for M4?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What sights does IA use for M4?


 
IA SF use a number of different red *** sights on their M4s, I know that Mepro Mor Sights are used along with EOTECH HOLO and others. The TAVORS in use with IA have standard MARS sights whilst, interestingly, the IAF and IN (not to mention CAPFs using the X-95) have gone with the Mepro Mor Sights for their Tavor varients.

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## Abingdonboy

Guys want more pics from the vid or have we had enough?


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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys want more pics from the vid or have we had enough?



if u can post some pics of M4 with magazine and sights  ok its training run stil it would be a greart pic with sight and magazine what u say ...


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> if u can post some pics of M4 with magazine and sights  ok its training run stil it would be a greart pic with sight and magazine what u say ...



Sure, I've got some. But as this was training without live rounds (from the content I've got they used live rounds later I'm sure) they don't have magazines attached for the most part-US SF don't either, standard practice during training. 

Will post the pics later, I'm going out right now to (finally!) go and see The Dark night rises!!


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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Sure, I've got some. But as this was training without live rounds (from the content I've got they used live rounds later I'm sure) they don't have magazines attached for the most part-US SF don't either, standard practice during training.
> 
> Will post the pics later, I'm going out right now to (finally!) go and *see The Dark night rises*!!



all the best watch out for shoot out

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## mfreak

> Indira Gandhi (best PM of india) with 1 Para SF.



BEST PM?! Please. There was lots of political oppression and humanitarian crisis under her. Now lets move on, dont wanna derail the thread ^^


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys want more pics from the vid or have we had enough?



More if you can.


----------



## Abingdonboy

A few more...

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## Abingdonboy



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## Jason bourne

Sorry for oftopic can u know which rifle is this ? @ abingdonboy


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> Sorry for oftopic can u know which rifle is this ? @ abingdonboy



HK416. (MY GUESS)

SMS bhi padha karo.

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## mirage2K

Don't you think their eye wear is not matching to the battle dress and stands out as the rim is white...also the kara worn by the second operator will shine during night operations


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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> HK416. (MY GUESS)
> 
> SMS bhi padha karo.



sms ka sound of tha  thanks anyway


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Sorry for oftopic can u know which rifle is this ? @ abingdonboy



My guess would be a variant of the SIG 550:








mirage2K said:


> Don't you think their eye wear is not matching to the battle dress and stands out as the rim is white...also the kara worn by the second operator will shine during night operations


To an extent but these any issues caused by them would be extremely minimal IMHO.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> My guess would be a variant of the SIG 550:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To an extent but these any issues caused by them would be extremely minimal IMHO.




Yup sig 552 looks more likely with extra mag.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> Yup sig 552 looks more likely with extra mag.



I thought about SIG too initially but the butt looked different to me than a SIG so i thought HK416.SIG's well designed butt stands out.


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## holysaturn

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I thought about SIG too initially but the butt looked different to me than a SIG so i thought HK416.SIG's well designed butt stands out.


its a sig with no cheek rests thats all.....


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I thought about SIG too initially but the butt looked different to me than a SIG so i thought HK416.SIG's well designed butt stands out.



Yes the butt did throw me with the chin rest as present on the pic I posted but there are numourous variartions of the 550/2 that have different butt without the chin rest.The chin rest is normally going to be just for the sniper/marksmen versions and so the models will have bi-pods and telescopic sights. Having looked into it more I am certain this is the SIG 550/2- the upper receiver,the iron sights and barrel in the pic is identical (IMHO) to the SIG's and from the pic below you can see the pic below the butt is idneitcal to that that can be found on a SIG:













If you look at the pic in question you can see there is a unique design just above the barrel where there is a protuding metal piece with a whole in it, this is present on all the pics I have posted and is present on the SIG.

+anyway Jason Bourne, what is the significance of this pic and rifle?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

^^^Yeah ..I wasnt too sure about it.Moreover the mag easily tells its a SIG.

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## Abingdonboy

+ just thought I'd post this given the context- NSG SIG 552 with a *triple * mag clip!






90 rounds of 5.56mm ammo! damn- they're ready for one hell of a firefight!

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Yes the butt did throw me with the chin rest as present on the pic I posted but there are numourous variartions of the 550/2 that have different butt without the chin rest.The chin rest is normally going to be just for the sniper/marksmen versions and so the models will have bi-pods and telescopic sights. Having looked into it more I am certain this is the SIG 550/2- the upper receiver,the iron sights and barrel in the pic is identical (IMHO) to the SIG's and from the pic below you can see the pic below the butt is idneitcal to that that can be found on a SIG:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the pic in question you can see there is a unique design just above the barrel where there is a protuding metal piece with a whole in it, this is present on all the pics I have posted and is present on the SIG.
> 
> +anyway Jason Bourne, what is the *significance of this pic* and rifle?



CurioSity  and guys sorry for posting oftopic and thanks for reply ..countinue with SF's


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## Jason bourne

para commando


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> CurioSity  and guys sorry for posting oftopic and thanks for reply ..countinue with SF's










Abingdonboy said:


> 90 rounds of 5.56mm ammo! damn- they're ready for one hell of a firefight!



LOL!

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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> 8th para



I wasn't aware there was an 8th PARA btn.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I wasn't aware there was an 8th PARA btn.


 
8 Para doesnt exist.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11 and 21 are the only Para battalions.


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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> 8 Para doesnt exist.
> 
> 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11 and 21 are the only Para battalions.



 then from one of the above unit ..

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> 8 Para doesnt exist.
> 
> 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11 and 21 are the only Para battalions.


That's what I thought with 5,6 and 7 being regular PARA (Airbirne) btns.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> then from one of the above unit ..



Smart guess!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA SAPPERS.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

This pic was taken in a live operation.Look at the hardship invovled...One guy is covering the other guy who is climbing and look at his beard..looks like a terrorist.

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## Abingdonboy

> A muffled thump of a silenced Micro-Uzi, bursts of AK-47 fire and a frantic jungle firefight. As Delhi warmed up to the spectacular opening ceremony of the Commonwealth games in New Delhi, the army's special forces raced through the jungles of Assam to perform a daring textbook rescue killing four cadres of the banned militant group the National Democratic Front of Bodoland and freeing a businessman they were holding hostage.
> 
> Location of the encounter between the army's special forces and militants of National Democratic Front of Bodoland
> Rescue missions are delicate surgeries meant to be carried out with scalpel-like precision to ensure that no harm comes to the hostages. This is usually far from the case as these missions end up as messy Pyrrhic victories with the hostages trapped between the good and the bad.
> 
> The story of this rare jungle rescue began on September 24 when the militants kidnapped Katan Nandi (36) son of a local grocery and retail store owner Parikshit Nandi in Dimu, Dhemaji district. They threatened to kill him unless a Rs 50 lakh ransom was paid up. Both the ULFA and the NDFB have accelerated kidnappings to generate funds for the groups with ransoms ranging from Rs 50 lakh to Rs 1 crore.
> 
> The Assam police dialed an Indian army's jungle warfare trained army Para-SF unit located nearby. On September 29, the unit began its task of locating the hostage. The unit was tipped off about the presence of the militants and began the grueling five-day task of collecting local intelligence.
> 
> Based on a local farmer's inputs that he had heard voices in the forest, they moved in to a search area of one kilometer by one kilometer. The wait paid off around noon on October 3. After a six-hour surveillance using spotter scopes, a group of four commandos located two suspicious individuals near the jungles north-west of Dhimaji district of Assam close to the Arunachal Pradesh border.
> 
> Weapons that were captured after the forest encounter
> The commandos began stalking their quarry. The duo walked to a forest clearing where there were ten other militants. The hostage was bound and put at the foot of a tree while some of the militants sat playing cards, cooking food and waiting for their ransom to arrive.
> 
> It was noon but the thick and impenetrable forest cover made it seem like dusk. As the commandos crawled through the dense undergrowth, they were hit by stones and abuses in Assamese. The militants mistook them for foraging animals.
> 
> A few metres away, one of the crawling commandos ran into a startled sentry. *Before he could reach for his weapon, the commando had whipped out his silenced Micro-Uzi and shot him in the head. The thump of the Uzi traveled across the jungle.*
> 
> The firefight had begun. The militants began sheltering behind trees and blasting away with their AK-47s. The commandos were outnumbered.
> 
> They could not use their force-multipliers, an 84mm Carl Gustav rocket launcher and 'Pika' machine gun, for fear of killing the hostage who was left under the tree. *One of the commandos shouted out in Assamese asking the hostage not to run, he then darted forward and grabbed him by his legs and dragged him to safety.*
> 
> The militants began pouring fire in his direction.* One of the commandos carefully aimed and brought down two militants.* A second commando shot one more militant and the rest fled into the undergrowth.
> 
> The end of a successful hostage rescue mission. The commandos then trekked for 24 hours through the jungle to reach the nearest road where a warm reception awaited them.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...stage-rescue-assam-jungles.html#ixzz25jVDcLTe



Army commandos daring hostage rescue in Assam jungles : East, News - India Today

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Army commandos daring hostage rescue in Assam jungles : East, News - India Today


 
Nice post 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This pic was taken in a live operation.Look at the hardship invovled...One guy is covering the other guy who is climbing and look at his beard..looks like a terrorist.


 
Nice pic


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS

Old pic.

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## KS

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MARCOS
> 
> Old pic.


 
Looks like some sort of exercise with Seals.


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## Abingdonboy

KS said:


> Looks like some sort of exercise with Seals.


 
A pretty fair assumption IMHO.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> A pretty fair assumption IMHO.


They used to have a lot of influence of the Army on their dressing..things have changed now and they look much more hi-tech.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

Finally some news!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/206957-india-us-hold-joint-wargame-next-month.html


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Not too impressive(the video) but still worth watching once......















Kindly ignore the commentry in this...Kerala Thunderbolts in this video..


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not too impressive(the video) but still worth watching once......



What is this? It seems all the content is from NDTV's NSG special. Is this a new show/doc?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Watch from 2:20 onwards.








Abingdonboy said:


> What is this? It seems all the content is from NDTV's NSG special. Is this a new show/doc?



I guess it is a show.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Kindly ignore the commentry in this...Kerala Thunderbolts in this video..



I'm sick of all this BS ninja/Matrix crap! I hear these guys have Steyr Augs,M4s and Tavors- would have loved to have seen these! Would also prefer to see a room intervention/HR drill not this punch a brick wall/jump through flaming ring rubbish! What use is that in the real world? You'd never see a seasoned SF do this- have the PARA SF/MARCOs ever put on such a show?? FFS!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm sick of all this BS ninja/Matrix crap! I hear these guys have Steyr Augs,M4s and Tavors- would have loved to have seen these! Would also prefer to see a room intervention/HR drill not this punch a brick wall/jump through flaming ring rubbish! What use is that in the real world? You'd never see a seasoned SF do this- have the PARA SF/MARCOs ever put on such a show?? FFS!!



LOL!!

I have seen Chinese SF do all these Hollywood stunts but i dont have much respect for them either.


All the Elite SF units try to stay away from the media...Doing these Hollywood stunts or going hungry for publicity like Chinese SF,Cobra,Kerala Thunderbolts only shows a wannabe nature and nothing else.

I wont criticise Kerala Thunderbolts that much to be honest...All these Police units are not secretive so the more you publicise the more good you are doing for yourself but like you said i would have preffered a NSG type of show...Professional.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> LOL!!
> 
> I have seen Chinese SF do all these Hollywood stunts but i dont have much respect for them.
> 
> 
> All the Elite SF units try to stay away from the media...Doing these Hollywood stunts or going hungry for publicity like Chinese SF,Cobra,Kerala Thunderbolts only shows a wannabe nature and nothing else.
> 
> I wont criticise Kerala Thunderbolts that much to be honest...All these Police units are not secretive so the more you publicise the more good you are doing for yourself.



I get that but why not do a "real-world" display ie a simulater terror attack response or a HR mission or somthing not all this crap!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I get that but why not do a "real-world" display ie a simulater terror attack response or a HR mission or somthing not all this crap!!



Yes i agree.Like i said in my last post...I would have like it had they done a NSG type of professional display of their capabilities.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yes i agree.Like i said in my last post...I would have like it had they done a NSG type of professional display of their capabilities.



+100. What they did was (imho) embarrasing but oh well, I guess people like you and me who understand these guys' jobs and have an appetitie for seeing room intervention/real world drills are in the minority and those watching would be bemused by such a performance but instead prefer this BS. One day when the Indian public has less ignorance then we will see what you and I want!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> +100. What they did was (imho) embarrasing but oh well, I guess people like you and me who understand these guys' jobs and have an appetitie for seeing room intervention/real world drills are in the minority and those watching would be bemused by such a performance but instead prefer this BS. One day when the Indian public has less ignorance then we will see what you and I want!



Oh well...That was humble. 


Like you and i keep saying that the start is important.Now that we have a start where many Police Deptts are rasing an elite unit(acc to their standards) i can see them only get better and better in the future to counter the real threat of Terrorism.

India always learns from her mistakes and the people involved are taking the right steps in my opinion.Units like these are good for raiding and killing gangs,robbers and holding highly armed terrorists till NSG comes and takes over.

We will in the future have a pool of highly trained Police officers to pick from for special tasks.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Oh well...That was humble.



Haha lol, I didn't mean they were stupid or uneducated at all if that's what you think I said. All I meant was there was a widespread lack of awarness about defence matters and the like so most people would not be to entertained by a room intervention drill but would be by this martial arts sort of display as it is more visually apealling to them! This can be, in part, blamed on the media and Bollywood for its shocking portrayal of such units and their actual role and instead use the term "COMMANDO" to mean a Rambo-type unit when most of the time they are nothing but. When you compare the average bollywood action/military movie to a move like Acts of Valor it is not hard to see why the general public expects these special units to be Rambos and the like. Ignorance only pertaining to defence matters nothing else.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Haha lol, I didn't mean they were stupid or uneducated at all if that's what you think I said. All I meant was there was a widespread lack of awarness about defence matters and the like so most people would not be to entertained by a room intervention drill but would be by this martial arts sort of display as it is more visually apealling to them! This can be, in part, blamed on the media and Bollywood for its shocking portrayal of such units and their actual role and instead use the term "COMMANDO" to mean a Rambo-type unit when most of the time they are nothing but. When you compare the average bollywood action/military movie to a move like Acts of Valor it is not hard to see why the general public expects these special units to be Rambos and the like. Ignorance only pertaining to defence matters nothing else.



Not at all..I understood your meaning.

I am not too impressed by the IPS officers trying to raise a Special Unit.Like the fat dude from COBRA was saying that "COBRA is the only SF force in the world to do Night operations".These guys need to educate themselves before opeining their mouth.I have respect for the COBRAS for making the sacrifice and serving the country but with all due respect most of these guys wont be able to make it to MARCOS or PARA Units.So they need to be more humble and should not think of themselves to be the best.This is what i liked in the PARA documentary in Nahan when the PARA's commanding officer said that we make a special effort to make these guys humble as it is a key factor for operational success.

The Army also has a problem with IPS officers heading NSG Units.These guys may be good in their business but must realise that raising special Units and conduction special ops is something which the Army has expertise in and *no matter what unit you raise the Army is still going to have the most experienced and well trained unit amonst all* coz thats what the Army is raised for.Its an Land based force raised to face enemies of a much tougher level than the Police forces ever face so it has to be the best.

Regarding Hollywood/Bollywood the same thing applies to film industry which you were applying to a common Indian.When they dont have the knowledge what do you expect from them.The Hollywood directors know a thing or two about their defence forces same is true for their citizens.In India apart from J P Dutta no one knows about them.Movies like Platoon,Act of valour,Black Hawk Down,The hurt locker,Beast of war etc. cant be compared to Indian movies like the way there is no competition for Steven Spielberg's movies in Bollywood.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not at all..I understood your meaning.
> 
> I am not too impressed by the IPS officers trying to raise a Special Unit.Like the fat dude from COBRA was saying that "COBRA is the only SF force in the world to do Night operations".These guys need to educate themselves before opeining their mouth.I have respect for the COBRAS for making the sacrifice and serving the country but with all due respect most of these guys wont be able to make it to MARCOS or PARA Units.So they need to be more humble and should not think of themselves to be the best.This is what i liked in the PARA documentary in Nahan when the PARA's commanding officer said that we make a special effort to make these guys humble as it is a key factor for operational success.
> 
> The Army also has a problem with IPS officers heading NSG Units.These guys may be good in their business but must realise that raising special Units and conduction special ops is something which the Army has expertise in and *no matter what unit you raise the Army is still going to have the most experienced and well trained unit amonst all* coz thats what the Army is raised for.Its an Land based force raised to face enemies of a much tougher level than the Police forces ever face so it has to be the best.
> 
> Regarding Hollywood/Bollywood the same thing applies to film industry which you were applying to a common Indian.When they dont have the knowledge what do you expect from them.The Hollywood directors know a thing or two about their defence forces same is true for their citizens.In India apart from J P Dutta no one knows about them.Movies like Platoon,Act of valour,Black Hawk Down,The hurt locker,Beast of war etc. cant be compared to Indian movies like the way there is no competition for Steven Spielberg's movies in Bollywood.



Wrt COBRA the officer was wrong in comparing the COBRA unit to SEALS/SAS/SFs but that doesn't mean we should use the comparison. COBRA isn't meant to be a SOF so there's no point in comparing them to MARCOs or PARA SF or whatever, they have a very specific *law enforcement* role that is it.


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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not at all..I understood your meaning.
> 
> I am not too impressed by the IPS officers trying to raise a Special Unit.Like the fat dude from COBRA was saying that "COBRA is the only SF force in the world to do Night operations".These guys need to educate themselves before opeining their mouth.I have respect for the COBRAS for making the sacrifice and serving the country but with all due respect most of these guys wont be able to make it to MARCOS or PARA Units.So they need to be more humble and should not think of themselves to be the best.This is what i liked in the PARA documentary in Nahan when the PARA's commanding officer said that we make a special effort to make these guys humble as it is a key factor for operational success.
> 
> The Army also has a problem with IPS officers heading NSG Units.These guys may be good in their business but must realise that raising special Units and conduction special ops is something which the Army has expertise in and *no matter what unit you raise the Army is still going to have the most experienced and well trained unit amonst all* coz thats what the Army is raised for.Its an Land based force raised to face enemies of a much tougher level than the Police forces ever face so it has to be the best.
> 
> Regarding Hollywood/Bollywood the same thing applies to film industry which you were applying to a common Indian.When they dont have the knowledge what do you expect from them.The Hollywood directors know a thing or two about their defence forces same is true for their citizens.In India apart from J P Dutta no one knows about them.*Movies like Platoon,Act of valour,Black Hawk Down,The hurt locker,Beast of war *etc. cant be compared to Indian movies like the way there is no competition for Steven Spielberg's movies in Bollywood.



kal hi sab ki DVD le ke ata hu


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Wrt COBRA the officer was wrong in comparing the COBRA unit to SEALS/SAS/SFs but that doesn't mean we should use the comparison. COBRA isn't meant to be a SOF so there's no point in comparing them to MARCOs or PARA SF or whatever, they have a very specific *law enforcement* role that is it.



I am not comparing but trying to show the level each SF is of.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am not comparing but trying to show the level each SF is of.


Fair enough but remember in India there are only 3 "true" SOFs (PARA SF,MARCOs,Garuds).


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> kal hi sab ki DVD le ke ata hu



Yaar yeh sab must watch movies he pakka dekhna.



Abingdonboy said:


> Fair enough but remember in India there are only 3 "true" SOFs (PARA SF,MARCOs,Garuds).




I know dude..COBRAs are only a Special Unit.


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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Fair enough but remember in India there are only 3 "true" SOFs (PARA SF,MARCOs,Garuds).









NSG is also good and what abt ghatak's i know little abt ghataks ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> NSG is also good and what abt ghatak's i know little abt ghataks ?



Ghataks are shock troops attached to every Infantry unit.They are not a SF.NSG is different.Its a counter terrorism and anti-hijacking/hostage rescue unit which also has a bomb squad attached to it.





An old Vajra-Prahar video for those who havent watched.

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## EzioAltaïr

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ghataks are shock troops attached to every Infantry unit.They are not a SF.NSG is different.Its a counter terrorism and anti-hijacking/hostage rescue unit which also has a bomb squad attached to it.



The Ghatak are like something between an SF and regular force. They are better trained, more experienced, and better equipped than the regular battalions.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

EzioAltaïr;3408345 said:


> The Ghatak are like something between an SF and regular force. They are better trained, more experienced, and better equipped than the regular battalions.



They are not a battalion.They are within a unit/battalion specially trained in the Commando school.Their size is comparable to a Company in a unit and comprises of jawans,NCOs and a Officer.


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## EzioAltaïr

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They are not a battalion.They are within a unit/battalion specially trained in the Commando school.Their size is comparable to a Company in a unit and comprises of jawans,NCOs and a Officer.



I know they are not a battalion.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

EzioAltaïr;3408375 said:


> I know they are not a battalion.





BTW thats the best thing that happened to the infantry.The Infantry doesnt have to rely on SFs now while the SF can concentrate on bigger targets in a war like situation plus we being not that rich a country considering the budget we get for a million plus Army hence we cannot equip every soldier head to toe with hi-tech stuff but the Ghataks can easily be equipped plus their superior training really gives the infantry the advantage.

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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> NSG is also good and what abt ghatak's i know little abt ghataks ?



Mate, I'll give you a "run-down" of Indian SOFs/Special units if you'd like:



Abingdonboy said:


> I'll have a crack at it.
> 
> 
> Firstly there are ONLY *THREE* actual/true Special Forces (SF/SOF) in India-
> IAF-*Garud*
> Garud Commando Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> IA-*PARA (SF)*
> Para Commandos (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> IN-*MARCOs*
> MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> +note- the PARA (SF) are part of the PARA regiment that also has regular PARA (airborne) btns as part of it who are well trained but not SF just like regular airborne forces found in other armies like 82nd Airborne of US.
> 
> By and large Indian SOFs very much like to keep to themselves and let their actions speak for themselves, this is sort of their unofficial mantra. As such, unlike with other SOFs, you won't find too much info on them.
> 
> 
> +There is also the *RR (Rashtriya Rifles)*- a dedicated Counter Insurgency force of the IA who operate mostly in J&K. They are drwan from all arms of the IA although it is mandated 50% of the force must be from the infantry and all members are deputated to the force for a period of time before returning to their parent units.
> 
> Rashtriya Rifles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there are a other specilzed forces-
> -*Ghataks* (In western lexicon they would be reffered to as "Special Operations Capable") are Special Operations Capable infantry platoons attactched toevery Infantry battalion in the Indian Army .
> 
> Ghatak Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*SFF/Special Group*-Under remit of RAW and act in similar ways to the SAD of CIA. Whilst SFF were made up of mainly Tibetan refugees, Special Group (a counter terror unit within the SFF whose existence is officially denied by GoI) is manned by mostly Indian SOF personal on deputation. Very little is actually known about these unit but whenever you here of RAW lifting some bad guy in the region say Nepal,BD or SL it is more likely than not this is SFF/SG.
> 
> Special Frontier Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> -*NSG* (a special intervention force) split in two groups (Special Action Group, SAG and Special Ranger Group,SRG), SAG is made up of IA guys on 3 year deputation tours and are the actual "shooters" who carry out any sort of domestic counter terror action and on the whole remains elusive and shadowy. SRG are the more camera-friendly guys whose sole responsibility is VVIP protection and members of SRG are CaPFs on deputation. It should be noted that despite NSG being initially set up as a dedicated CT force because of the babu nature in India the number of personal in SRG now vastly outnumber the number of "shooters" in SAG.The SAG atleast could be understood to be similar to the FBI's HRT in remit and training.
> 
> 
> National Security Guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Then there are the numourous CaPFs who also have specilized units:
> 
> -*CRPF COBRAs:* A dedicated anti-Naxal force which has grown in both size and capabilty and are actually delivering tangible results in the field. Armed with ever increasing tactics (notably recently the induction of dedicated sniper-spotter teams for intel gathering and other such sniper related work) and weaponary including recently the X-95.
> 
> Commando Battalion for Resolute Action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> -*ITBP Commandos:* A specilised unit within ITBP which is well trained and,relatively, well armed. The force has been deployed (for whatever reason) to protect the Indian diplomatic mission in Afghanistan after targetted bobmbings.
> 
> Indo-Tibetan Border Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*BSF:* The BSF has mulitple "commando" units including the Crocidile commandos (seriously this is thir name!) whose responsiblty is patrolling creeks and water bodies close to Pakistan.
> 
> Border Security Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*RPF: The Railway Protection force* too has their own dedicated commando unit. I'm not too clued up on them tbh so can't really give a fair analysis of their training/equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These days most states have Special Response/Emergency response units especially in response to 26/11. Surprisingly it does seem like most of these are well trained and well equipped.
> 
> 
> There needs to be a further understanding of what the true definition of Special Forces and Commandos are to stop this unneeded and pointless proliferation of the "commando" identity it cheapens it for all those units that are truly deserving of the title and have worked bloody hard to earn it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To note, the *SPG* is *NOT * a special/commando force as TOO many people claim. They are an incredibly well trained and equipeed executive protection agency for PM/ex PMs, Pres and their families- THAT IS ALL.
> 
> 
> Special Protection Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate, I'll give you a "run-down" of Indian SOFs/Special units if you'd like:



Why is NSG not classified as a "true" special force?


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## blain2

EzioAltaïr;3408559 said:


> Why is NSG not classified as a "true" special force?



Because its mission is not to conduct operations behind the lines. Its primary job is to provide VIP security and conduct CT operations in country. The former is a mission that is typically supported by military Special Forces.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

blain2 said:


> Because its mission is not to conduct operations behind the lines. Its primary job is to provide VIP security and conduct CT operations in country. The former is a mission that is typically supported by military Special Forces.



NSG comprises of two groups SAG and SRG.There are 2 SAG.SAG has the responsibility of doing all the Anti terrorist/hostage operations and comprises of Indian Army troops only who come for 3 year tenure.

SRG is responsible for the protection of VIPs and giving support to SAG if required.There are 3 SRG.SRG comprises of Police/Para Military personnel.

NSG comes within the *Central Armed Police Forces* category and hence it cannot be called a Special Forces Unit.It is a second line of defence unit and reacts to situation and no way will it be given first strike operation or a chance to participate in war.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate, I'll give you a "run-down" of Indian SOFs/Special units if you'd like:





yup like it thanks ...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> After 1995 operations moved into a higher gear. The Special Forces were now established and their skills gave the Army the tools it needed. Using specific information the Special Forces could move in and eliminate whole mujahid units. Special Forces men dressed as locals mingled in and started hitting back. They could even move in the 10000 ft passes carrying out ambushes. They also moved across the LOC much deeper then the 1- 5 km penetration by the regular Army units. Their presence had the effect of forcing the ISI and Pakistani military of moving most of the training camps towards the sanctuary of the Afghan border. These operations also extracted a price.
> 
> 
> In September 95, intelligence had placed a team of Lashkar-e-Toiba group in a mountain cave. A team led Captain Ashok Jasrotia of 9th SF moved up the 7000 feet mountain. By dawn they had moved into position when they were spotted. Captain Jasrotia threw a grenade and charged the militant and shot him in the process taking a bullet in the shoulder. Another militant tried to bludgeon him but Captain Jasrotia managed to kill him with his commando knife. As he moved towards the cave a hidden militant shot him in the chest and stomach. The rest of the commandos finished off the group. The tough captain hung on for 10 days dying en-route to New Delhi for medical attention. He was awarded the Ashok Chakra.
> 
> In addition to the Special Forces, units from the National Security Guards and the Marine Commandos also got involved. The Marine Commandos took positions in and around the Wullar lake cutting off infiltration routes and taking away the safe havens for militants.



:: Lt Gen (Retd) Arjun Ray ::


Must Read!

Posted by *Doctor Death* in another thread.

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## Abingdonboy

^^Man that is an EPIC story, I love such accounts especially when they involve SF and their operations. There are so few stories like this. Any more??


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## Doctor Death

*Ashok Chakra for Op Sarp Vinash martyr.*
August 14, 2003 21:14 IST

The government has conferred the Ashok Chakra, India's [ Images ] highest peacetime gallantry award, which is the equivalent of the Param Vir Chakra, on a 21-year-old army commando who died participating in Operation Sarp Vinash in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] this year.


Sanjog Chhetri of the prestigious 9 Para Commando was part of a team tasked for the initial operations on terrorist locations in Surankot area of Rajouri sector on April 22.
Lessons of Op Sarp Vinash

The lamb that roared

Op Sarp Vinash chief pulled up

Op Sarp Vinash claims 60 terrorists



"The commandos, while approaching the terrorists' hideout, drew extremely heavy automatic fire. Sensing grave danger to his comrades Sanjog assaulted the cave, lobbing grenades and firing from the hip and killing one terrorist. In the intense fire he suffered gunshot wound to the right shoulder, but unmindful of his physical condition he pressed on with the assault and killed a second terrorist. He, however, fell at the entrance of the cave. The terrorists had inflicted multiple gunshot wounds to Sanjog," the army said in a statement

But that was not the end.


"Paratrooper Sanjog Chhetri, in one last act of supreme valour, drew his commando knife and charged into the hideout, killing one more terrorist in hand-to-hand combat before finally succumbing to his wounds."

Inspired by his supreme sacrifice, his comrades killed 13 terrorists that night and captured a Pakistan-trained terrorist.

Chhetri was born on the Republic Day (January 26) of 1982 in Sikkim. A resident of South Sikkim district's Namchi tehsil, he lost his father when he was very young and he and his sister Sangeeta were adopted by their father's elder brother.

He joined the army in March 2001 and was later selected to the exclusive 9 Para (Special Forces), which has been constantly in action in J&K since the beginning of militancy there in the late 80s. The unit has also seen action in Sri Lanka [ Images ] as part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force in the late 80s.

The elite unit has so far won an unprecedented three Ashok Chakras.

Captain A S Jasrotia posthumously won the Ashoka Chakra in 1996 and Major Sudhir Kumar in 2000 when he took on a big group of terrorists in Rajawar jungles in Kupwara district of J&K.

The 9 Para is the only battalion to have won the army chief's unit citation three times.

It was also labelled the 'Bravest of the Brave' for its valiant efforts to retake the entire Zulu ridge in Mushko valley during Kargil [ Images ] operations.

The 9 Para is one of the four special forces in the army and is specially tasked for mountain operations.

The unit traditionally operates between Akhnoor and Poonch areas in J&K.

It was this unit that held the Munawar Tawi Line against a Pakistani armoured thrust in Chamb sector in 1971, for the first time donning the role of a regular frontline unit to stem the Pakistani attack.

This year the unit has won one Shaurya Chakra and 10 Sena medals.

Ashok Chakra for Op Sarp Vinash martyr


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## Abingdonboy

> The 9 Para is one of the four special forces in the army and is specially tasked for mountain operations.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-86.html#ixzz26Yo7Rboh



So the size of PARA (SF) has doubled in 10 years? That's news to me!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> ^^Man that is an EPIC story, I love such accounts especially when they involve SF and their operations. There are so few stories like this. Any more??



I hope you got to know what SG's role is in Kashmir after reading that article.


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## Jason bourne



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## Abingdonboy



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## Water Car Engineer

^^^^^^^^

@Abingdonboy 

Share the video dude!


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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> ^^^^^^^^
> 
> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Share the video dude!



???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? Video: NDTV.com

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## EzioAltaïr

Jason bourne said:


>



SF guy with Tavor in hand, and BFSR on his side. Invincible.


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## mfreak

> Special Forces men dressed as locals mingled in and started hitting back.



Sounds like the Israeli Special Forces - Duvdevan Unit ^^


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## David James

Indian Army Special Forces - Para Commandos - YouTube

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## Water Car Engineer

Tavors everywhere.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> It's a fair point but a bit immature and naive. *Actions are the only way to rate armies and espceially SOFs and if this is the case then Indian SOFs are up there with the best. *It is true that in JK standards for uniforms are laxed but so what? A bullet is going to have the same trajectory when fired from soldiers in identical camo to those in this sort of dress.
> 
> 
> Uniformity will be there when needed (NOTE some of the pics are NOT SF but regular airborne units):
> 
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> (IN MARCOs)



like the phrase your genuine or from any novel  heheheh superb

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## Nishan_101

Jason bourne said:


> like the phrase your genuine or from any novel  heheheh superb



Are they looking in to Chinooks for Special forces???


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## Abingdonboy

Nishan_101 said:


> Are they looking in to Chinooks for Special forces???



Maybe in a few years time. This year the IAF will sign the deal for 15 Chinooks to replace the Mi-26s and the IA has a requirement for a SOAR so once the Chinook is in service with the IAF it is a possiblity the IA may look at it for themselves.


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## Roybot

David James said:


> Indian Army Special Forces - Para Commandos - YouTube



What a badas*, has submitted Mt Everest 3 times!

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## Abingdonboy

My vid on Indian SOFs:

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## Jason bourne

who are they PARA SF with tavor and RR with AK's ?


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## Abingdonboy

Guys I'm considering making another YT vid on Indian forces anyone have any requests about content of the vid? and or music? Please try to consider just pictures, I haven't quite mastered video editing just yet-but soon!

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ilitary-picture-thread-268.html#ixzz27Jsf5ARa


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## KRAIT

Don't use that soundtrack frim Requiem for a Dream.

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## Abingdonboy

KRAIT said:


> Don't use that soundtrack frim Requiem for a Dream.



hahah +100!! Even If hadn't hear that song on every 4th YT vid I still wouldn't use it- I don't even like it that much!


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## KRAIT

It was great when I heard it first time but these idiots have made mate it.

Look at Hans Zimmers' music , especially from The Dark Knight.


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## rashtriya.rifles

Underground Army or Imagine the Fire - Hans Zimmer - The Dark Knight Rises !! Just ******* awesome !!

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## mfreak

> Guys I'm considering making another YT vid on Indian forces anyone have any requests about content of the vid? and or music? Please try to consider just pictures, I haven't quite mastered video editing just yet-but soon!



Regarding Music - Use some heavy metal music.


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## Abingdonboy

Any ideas on content??


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## rashtriya.rifles

Abingdonboy said:


> Any ideas on content??



Make it for the SFs.. include NSG and RR as well !!


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## Abingdonboy

rashtriya.rifles said:


> Make it for the SFs.. include NSG and RR as well !!



Was this one not enough? 






+RR is not a SF!

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## chairborne ranger

use the delta force track by alan silvestri


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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> Any ideas on content??



Make one on our CoIn forces, such as CRPF and RR.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> My vid on Indian SOFs:



Nice video but i would have loved if you had put an Indian Track..rest everything was good.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nice video but i would have loved if you had put an Indian Track..rest everything was good.



If you could give me a few tracks for eg, I could make the change!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> If you could give me a few tracks for eg, I could make the change!



If i was making a video i would have definitely put this track coz a lot of lines are suitable for Indian SOFs.


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## Abingdonboy

And any more thoughts on:



Abingdonboy said:


> Guys I'm considering making another YT vid on Indian forces anyone have any requests about content of the vid? and or music? Please try to consider just pictures, I haven't quite mastered video editing just yet-but soon!



Currently I am working on 2 YT vids the 1st is "The Beauty of the IAF" by request of Mr Sancho, and the 2nd is a CRPF/RR COIN ops vid by request of Mr EzioAltaïr.

Any tracks for these? (if you could muliplte options for each vid so I have options that would be good).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> And any more thoughts on:
> 
> 
> 
> Currently I am working on 2 YT vids the 1st is "The Beauty of the IAF" by request of Mr Sancho, and the 2nd is a CRPF/RR COIN ops vid by request of Mr EzioAltaïr.
> 
> Any tracks for these? (if you could muliplte options for each vid so I have options that would be good).



The video whose link you sent me "Sky Fighter" is the best video i have seen on AF till now...Try considering a similar track and for COBRAs Hey Dude from Goal should be good.


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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> If you could give me a few tracks for eg, I could make the change!



How about something from Lakshya for example?

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## rashtriya.rifles

EzioAltaïr;3444143 said:


> How about something from Lakshya for example?



+1 to that


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## Abingdonboy

Okay guys, thanks for your input. I will try and have atleast one of the vids uploaded by later tonight (GMT).


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## arp2041

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys, I have got the IAF vid just about done but am still stuck on the song. Could a few of you please give me 2-4 suggestions each so i can finish the vid? India or English songs-whatever!



hey abing, may be u can try this, i really liked this soundtrack:

SALT SOUNDTRACK - GO GET EM - YouTube

Actually i liked A-Jo more


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## Yeti

I love the hell march song on this video but it's been done many times now.


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## Abingdonboy

Guys, I've put a hold on my IAF vid as I'm still trying to find appropriate music to go with it. Any (more) suggestions are welcomed.


+wrt the COIN CRPF/RR music do you think it should be upbeat/go for it type music or downbeat/reflective music?


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## MUHARIB

Less talking and more pictures please.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Abingdonboy

How interesting is this:



> Team member of an Indian Army Training Team, training soldiers of the Lesotho Defense Force (LDF) in counter terrorism, counter insurgency, VIP and installation security.
> *
> In the process, raised and trained the first ever Special Forces squadron for that mountain kingdom. *This sub unit turned into a fine fighting force capable of professionally tackling any insurgency or terrorism related incident. It is vibrant and ticking, continues to be professional, apolitical and citizen friendly, and till this day fully committed in VVIP security duties and the prevention of drug-trafficking and gun running in Lesotho. Soldiers of this sub-unit have performed very well in the Southern African regional professional military competitions and have drawn admiration from varied quarters.
> 
> I have been a certified trainer in a similar capacity earlier also in the Indian Army Special Forces Training School.



Bhushan Kaluvakolan, CPP, CISSP, CISA, ITIL | LinkedIn

IA SF raised an African nation's SF!!

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys, I've put a hold on my IAF vid as I'm still trying to find appropriate music to go with it. Any (more) suggestions are welcomed.
> 
> 
> +wrt the COIN CRPF/RR music do you think it should be upbeat/go for it type music or downbeat/reflective music?



OMG u wasted TWO page of this thread asking or suggestion and few other threads as well and now after all that u gave up


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## chairborne ranger

Abingdonboy said:


> How interesting is this:
> 
> 
> 
> Bhushan Kaluvakolan, CPP, CISSP, CISA, ITIL | LinkedIn
> 
> IA SF raised an African nation's SF!!


cliches exist for a reason, mate.
used highway to the danger zone, the top gun anthem,
or get some good old maiden in there.......aces high or tailgunner.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I have to admit that the Pakistanis are way ahead of us in making videos and posting it on Youtube.The tracks are simply awesome and the content is so vast.They have videos covering all aspects of their training whereas we dont even have a proper video showing a fully armed Marcos diver comming out of the sea(which is supposed to be among the primary mission of a Marcos).

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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have to admit that the Pakistanis are way ahead of us in making videos and posting it on Youtube.The tracks are simply awesome and the content is so vast.They have videos covering all aspects of their training whereas we dont even have a proper video showing a fully armed Marcos diver comming out of the sea(which is supposed to be among the primary mission of a Marcos).




bhai kharab mal ki advertisement jyda karni padti he

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## -=virus=-

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys, I've put a hold on my IAF vid as I'm still trying to find appropriate music to go with it. Any (more) suggestions are welcomed.
> 
> 
> +wrt the COIN CRPF/RR music do you think it should be upbeat/go for it type music or downbeat/reflective music?



make an IAF vid with Judas Priest - all guns blazing/hell patrol/night crawler


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## chairborne ranger

^leather rebel wont be bad either

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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> OMG u wasted TWO page of this thread asking or suggestion and few other threads as well and now after all that u gave up

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



Good effort!!

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Good effort!!



Thanks man-stay tuned for more!!


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have to admit that the Pakistanis are way ahead of us in making videos and posting it on Youtube.The tracks are simply awesome and the content is so vast.They have videos covering all aspects of their training whereas we dont even have a proper video showing a fully armed Marcos diver comming out of the sea(which is supposed to be among the primary mission of a Marcos).



Whilst I would LOVE more content on Indian SOFs I understand their reasoning for not going public as they say they prefer their actions to speak otherwise they are content to live in the shadows. This is how SOFs _should _ behave-they aren't action stars! Indian SOFs are arguably some of the world's most secretive SOFs and that is all right with me.


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## KRAIT

One of my fav. Soundtrack from S.W.A.T. --- awesome track

Good Work buddy.


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## lkozhi

One of our leading movie actors mohanlal wanted to learn about commandos for his movie, a meeting was arranged with a special forces member. While waiting for him at the hotel a bearded man approached him talked to him about his movies The guy was talking a lot , had a very rough and unshaven look. After troubling the actor for a while the actor found some excuse and left. The actor was thinking he will copy the flashing uniform and looks of the commando. The actor waited for a while became impatient and called up the guy who arranged the meeting. He said 'what are u talking he just told me he came talked to you and left"


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## Abingdonboy

KRAIT said:


> One of my fav. Soundtrack from S.W.A.T. --- awesome track
> 
> Good Work buddy.



No problem buddy-another one:

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## KRAIT

Now you used Linkin Park. Buddy we have same taste in Music.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Whilst I would LOVE more content on Indian SOFs I understand their reasoning for not going public as they say they prefer their actions to speak otherwise they are content to live in the shadows. This is how SOFs _should _ behave-they aren't action stars! Indian SOFs are arguably some of the world's most secretive SOFs and that is all right with me.



They sould be secretive about their operations but not their training.Being open with the media could help them get potential future operators.After the 26/11 incident many youngsters called NSG and were shocked to know that they have to join the Army to be in the NSG.No one knew we had a unit like that.

The Americans know how to use their resources very well thaswhy you find so many stuff about them in the internet plus they get the job done.All the leading SF units in the world are famous too and it doesnt affect their operations be it SEALS,Spetsnaz or SAS.


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## Abingdonboy

New and improved:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

One of my favourite clips of a NSG commando in which he says "nothing is impossible for us" and cleverly avoids other questions.








And in this one there is another commando in the last few seconds of the clip who says that you should keep smiling and the morale should never be down...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

For those of you who might have missed it...The best news this year so far for Army SFs.





> A month after Indian Army chief General VK Singh flagged gaps in defence preparedness in a letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, India has empowered its army to buy specialist equipment for its special forces on its own, even as it agreed to consider the army request to have attack helicopters in its aviation fleet as has been demanded by it for several years now.
> 
> These decisions were taken at a special review meeting - the third since February 28 - of army's acquisition process and the second since March 12 when the army chief wrote his letter to the prime minister, defence ministry officials said in Delhi.
> 
> The defence ministry asked the army to buy the specialist equipment by itself on the lines of what it does for troops posted at the world's highest battlefield in Siachen glacier.
> 
> At a nearly two-hour meeting at South Block, Defence Minister AK Antony told the army top brass led by its chief Gen. Singh at the meeting to review its procurements and development plans that it can buy these equipment, the shortage of which was highlighted by the army chief in the letter to the prime minister.



India Empowers Army to Buy Special Forces Equipment - Defence Now

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## EzioAltaïr

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> For those of you who might have missed it...The best news this year so far for Army SFs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India Empowers Army to Buy Special Forces Equipment - Defence Now



Finally, one good decision. 

The army can buy it on it's own, so less red tape, less chance of buying substandard stuff for double the cost (yes Tatra, I'm talking about you ), and the things are being bought by people who know what is needed.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

EzioAltaïr;3455290 said:


> Finally, one good decision.
> 
> The army can buy it on it's own, so less red tape, less chance of buying substandard stuff for double the cost (yes Tatra, I'm talking about you ), and the things are being bought by people who know what is needed.



Yeah...and we can expect to see the results within a few years if not months.The SFs will have what they want and hence their mordernisation will take place faster and they wont have to wait for F-INSAS.

Like Abingdonboy was mentioning if we could get a Special Forces command with Special budget then it would be the best thing which could have happened to the SFs.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> For those of you who might have missed it...The best news this year so far for Army SFs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India Empowers Army to Buy Special Forces Equipment - Defence Now



This is great news, all these things are coming together-a proposed SF command, dedicated SF aviation assets and now more freedom to purchase themsleves in line with most Western SFs. Things are looking good!!


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## Abingdonboy

Guys check out my newest vid:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ces-police-ambulance-fire-13.html#post3455918


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Offtopic!

Has anyone watched this programme?..Used to be among my favourite but after D3 another part hasnt come.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Offtopic!
> 
> Has anyone watched this programme?..Used to be among my favourite but after D3 another part hasnt come.



That's coold- I've never even heard of this show!! Are any of the instructors ex Indian SF?


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## mfreak

Thats probably the most fake *** show after Roadies, that I have seen. Fuckin losers.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> That's coold- I've never even heard of this show!! Are any of the instructors ex Indian SF?



3 out of 4 Instructors are Army officers and 1 of them is from Para.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> 3 out of 4 Instructors are Army officers and 1 of them is from Para.



PARA (SF(??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF(??



Cant say for sure...The badges were blurred.All of them have experience of fighting terrorism in kashmir.They were showing repititively that they are Ex Army offficer and i find it hard to believe due to some reasons.

Anyway the show apart from some drama...which is good for Channel's TRP... is good to watch as it shows some training and how youngsters who have no idea about Operations and Military try to adapt and train themselves to fight terrorists.

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## Abingdonboy

My latest vid:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ces-police-ambulance-fire-13.html#post3456114


Guys please share as much as possible-facebook,twitter,YT, whatever!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF(??




He is the one.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hi guys,We had this debate on the SFF in this thread a few months ago and now i have luckily found out a pic of SFF which is 7-8 years old.

So let me test you guys here...All you fans of Indian SOF can you tell me what is the first and most important thing about the pic that you notice?


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## Roybot

^^^^Female SFF??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Roybot said:


> ^^^^Female SFF??



Maybe Airborne Medic.Like in the last expedition there was this doctor from N-E wearing maroon beret.

Anyways its nice you saw the chick first among the men.....but thats not what i was pointing to.Theres one more strange thing or rather interesting thing about the pic.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Hi guys,We had this debate on the SFF in this thread a few months ago and now i have luckily found out a pic of SFF which is 7-8 years old.
> 
> So let me test you guys here...All you fans of Indian SOF can you tell me what is the first and most important thing about the pic that you notice?





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Maybe Airborne Medic.Like in the last expedition there was this doctor from N-E wearing maroon beret.
> 
> Anyways its nice you saw the chick first among the men.....but thats not what i was pointing to.Theres one more strange thing or rather interesting thing about the pic.



There appears to be IA SF in this unit (at least in this pic).


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> There appears to be IA SF in this unit (at least in this pic).




Yup..The one who was part of Times Now show.

PARA SF--Kashmir

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## Abingdonboy

Something interesting caught my eye when I read this article (wrt SFF):


http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...r-billion-dollar-arms-deal.html#ixzz282n6B8vy




> "SFF is the most premier paramilitary organisation in India," Verma said in an email to his US employers in December 2011. "Whatever they buy, the rest buy."
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...r-billion-dollar-arms-deal.html#ixzz282n6B8vy


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Something interesting caught my eye when I read this article (wrt SFF):
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...r-billion-dollar-arms-deal.html#ixzz282n6B8vy



Thats true.If a force buys anything and if its good then the rest follow eg Tavor.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

COBRA

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## rashtriya.rifles

abhingdonboy and ColhHeartedAviator ... I love you

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rashtriya.rifles said:


> abhingdonboy and ColhHeartedAviator ... I love you



Ooohh i wish you were a sexy chick 


Thanks mate..thanks for liking my post.


GHATAK

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

GARUDS


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS

Look at this guys muscle..not bulky and has all the muslces combined with Pekiti Kali Tersia makes him a lethal warrior...


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## saumyasupratik

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MARCOS
> 
> Look at this guys muscle..not bulky and has all the muslces combined with Pekiti Kali Tersia makes him a lethal warrior...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [



He is not a MARCOS this is from Salvex and MARCOS as I believe weren't involved in this Salvaging excercise with the US Navy.

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## Abingdonboy

saumyasupratik said:


> He is not a MARCOS this is from Salvex and MARCOS as I believe weren't involved in this Salvaging excercise with the US Navy.



Absolutely correst- these pics have been mis-identified as MARCOs too many times- they are just regular IN divers.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Absolutely correst- these pics have been mis-identified as MARCOs too many times- they are just regular IN divers.



Are you sure?...look at his T-shirt markings and the hat he is wearing is specially for IA PARA and i have seen Marcos wear them on many occasions.

His physique looks too good to be a normal diver.


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## IndoUS

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Are you sure?...look at his T-shirt markings and the hat he is wearing is specially for IA PARA and i have seen Marcos wear them on many occasions.
> 
> His physique looks too good to be a normal diver.



Comeon man have some faith in our regular men's physique.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

IndoUS said:


> Comeon man have some faith in our regular men's physique.



Lol...Ok ...you know these normal divers usually turn out to be secret Marcos operators...so being suspective.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Are you sure?...look at his T-shirt markings and the hat he is wearing is specially for IA PARA and i have seen Marcos wear them on many occasions.
> 
> His physique looks too good to be a normal diver.


Yeah I'm 110% sure mate- the markings on his shirt are different to the MARCOs' "Trident" badge and cleaerly says "NAVY DIVER". Wrt physique- being a Navy diver (frogman) isn't for the faint-hearted, it is one of the toughest jobs out there!


U.S. and Indian Navies participate in SALVEX 2012 : Hookele &#8211; Pearl Harbor &#8211; Hickam News
Exercise 'SALVEX' : Operations : Indian Navy

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/87391-salvex-2011-indian-navy-us-navy-divers-exercise-specialist-salvage-techniques-s.html

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah I'm 110% sure mate- the markings on his shirt are different to the MARCOs' "Trident" badge and cleaerly says "NAVY DIVER". Wrt physique- being a Navy diver (frogman) isn't for the faint-hearted, it is one of the toughest jobs out there!
> 
> 
> U.S. and Indian Navies participate in SALVEX 2012 : Hookele  Pearl Harbor  Hickam News
> Exercise 'SALVEX' : Operations : Indian Navy



I found it similar to combat diver batch.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

A very old pic of Marcos(early 90s)








Paratropper posing with his M4


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> A very old pic of Marcos(early 90s)


UZIs!!!



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Paratropper posing with his M4



M4 with EOtech sights and QuadRail-NICE!!

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## Dirt Diver

Abingdonboy said:


> There appears to be IA SF in this unit (at least in this pic).



One of the SF officers is a familiar face....Colonel S S Shekhawat KC,SC,SM,VSM...picture taken when he was a Major


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dirt Diver said:


> One of the SF officers is a familiar face....Colonel S S Shekhawat KC,SC,SM,VSM...picture taken when he was a Major



Yup...you can make out from his maroon beret...there is a SFF badge instead of Para badge.Proves IA SF's heavy involvement with SFF.


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## Gessler

@ Abingdonboy

buddy have you ever used this track as background music for any of
your vids as yet? I'm a diehard fan of 3 doors down -


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## Abingdonboy

IAF Garuds:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

My suggestion for a track for SOF video.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

IAF Garuds


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Kinetic

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> IAF Garuds



*Hi Thanks for sharing, Can u pls share the video link? 
*


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## Kinetic

Abingdonboy said:


> It's a fair point but a bit immature and naive. Actions are the only way to rate armies and espceially SOFs and if this is the case then Indian SOFs are up there with the best. It is true that in JK standards for uniforms are laxed but so what? A bullet is going to have the same trajectory when fired from soldiers in identical camo to those in this sort of dress.
> 
> 
> Uniformity will be there when needed (NOTE some of the pics are NOT SF but regular airborne units
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> (IN MARCOs)



Outstanding!!! Thanks for sharing.


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## EzioAltaïr

I've always wondered this. The Sikh Regiment started wearing the Patka helmets, to confirm to their religious standards. What does a Sikh in an SF unit do?


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## EzioAltaïr

JonAsad said:


> Your special forces doesnt have a standard gear?-
> So unprofessional-



Those guys aren't SFs. SFs don't use the Patka Helmet, they use Kevlar and Aramid helmets.


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## Kinetic

MUHARIB said:


> I guess they are MARCOS. Or i might be wrong they might be VBSS too. These pics are from INS Sahyahdri i guess.
> 
> And also can someone ID the thingy in the first pic near the barrel. It looks like UBGL release lever.



They are standardizing the uniform for MARCOS FROM EARLIER BLACK?


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## Abingdonboy

EzioAltaïr;3490219 said:


> I've always wondered this. The Sikh Regiment started wearing the Patka helmets, to confirm to their religious standards. What does a Sikh in an SF unit do?



Same as what Sikh pilots do- instead of wearing a full turban, cover the hair with a simple petite of cloth and stick a Kevlar on like everyone else.



Kinetic said:


> They are standardizing the uniform for MARCOS FROM EARLIER BLACK?



These guys aren't MARCOs, but yes this new camo is going to be the new standard uniform for MARCOs but black is there is needed.



Kinetic said:


> They are standardizing the uniform for MARCOS FROM EARLIER BLACK?



These guys aren't MARCOs, but yes this new camo is going to be the new standard uniform for MARCOs but black is there is needed.

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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> Same as what Sikh pilots do- instead of wearing a full turban, cover the hair with a simple petite of cloth and stick a Kevlar on like everyone else.



But then why doesn't IA dispose of the Patkas and make all the Sikhs do that. I know the Patka offers great protection, but it is unwieldy, does not cover the ears, and one can't mount hands-free communication on it.

Why not just use advanced Kevlar/Aramid helmets, and dispose of the Patkas?


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## Abingdonboy

EzioAltaïr;3490501 said:


> But then why doesn't IA dispose of the Patkas and make all the Sikhs do that. I know the Patka offers great protection, but it is unwieldy, does not cover the ears, and one can't mount hands-free communication on it.
> 
> Why not just use advanced Kevlar/Aramid helmets, and dispose of the Patkas?





My understanding is the Patka was developed for Sikh soldiers who couldn't use the vintage tin helmets the IA used and then the Patka was found to be incredibly useful in CI ops and was adopted as the standard helmet for all units involved in CI ops. My understanding is that eventually the plan is to give all the IA Kevlar helmets but this is a mammoth project and can't just be done overnight so right now they remain he preserve of SOF units.

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## Slayer786

Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?

Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die. 

Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.


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## jha

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.



I hope every one in ur side shares your views. We will have field day in next war...

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## imperialmen

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.



I say... why not come out from under the rock and breathe some fresh air? 

Even I had a restricted view about Pakistan until a few months back, all I could think about Pakistan was = a failed state with salwar-kameez wearing radicals stuck in the medieval era. But you know what, I researched a little about Pakistan and was surprised to see that Pakistan in fact was doing well, and looked cleaner and somewhat more developed than India(on a broader scale looks better than India, because in India, the development is in extremes ie very rich or very poor).

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## Kinetic

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.



Se you talk about something, in which you are very bad. During 26/11 the terrorists attacked big 5 start hotels, hospitals and railways stations full of civilians but in your country they attacked a military base called PNS Mehran and why so many hours they took? Not only that there are many examples. One is Sri Lankan Cricket team's visit to Pakistan. The cricketers said the security forces ran away leaving them in the hands of attackers. 

So its better not to talk about courage.


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## mfreak

MUHARIB said:


> I guess they are MARCOS. Or i might be wrong they might be VBSS too. These pics are from INS Sahyahdri i guess.
> 
> And also can someone ID the thingy in the first pic near the barrel. It looks like UBGL release lever.



That looks like some American Uniform. When did we start using this camo?


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## Kinetic

mfreak said:


> That looks like some American Uniform. When did we start using this camo?



It looks like US Navy Seal but they are the MARCOS of Indian navy.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Kinetic said:


> *Hi Thanks for sharing, Can u pls share the video link?
> *



??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????????... Video: NDTV.com


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.



Trolling is not my intention but comming from a country which is home to SSG COMMANDOS who raised the white flag after getting air dropped to destroy Indian air fileds and who get beaten by Indian foot soldiers the only thing you can do is be humble.

SSG has done disasters in the past whereas there is not a single operation you can blame the PARA,MARCOS or GARUDS(The only Indian SOFs) for not doing their work properly...The mumbai attack was handled by NSG for you information and it was not incapable..it was slow because of the lack of aircrafts and bad decisions made by the state govt.

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## Abingdonboy

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.


Nonsense talking of "heart" of course MARCOs and all Indian SOFs have it to get to where they are you NEED it. Yo shouldn't comment on things you know little about Indian SOFs have been involved in many successful ops but unlike other less proffesional forces Indian SOFs don't like to publicise them. Don't kid yourself that 26/11 was a failure by NSG- the mammoth task was hailed by SOFs all around the world. I could go on but your comments have shown how ignorant and immature you are and I can't be bothered to respond In depth. But have no doubt Indian SOFs are as trained and experienced as they come and this is recognised by the best.


I think someone has a touch of the green eyed monster.


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## Abingdonboy

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.



+ calling it cowardly to call in air stories during kargil! Are you livig in the Middle Ages? This is how wars in the 21st centuary are fought you fool!!!! 


And remember when your precious SSG got killed and beat back by regular IA in 1980s?!!

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## Sergi

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.



Hahahahah  thank you Pakistani for this ^^^
1. Ya everyone looks great. How about the "LAL MASHID" ??? How many hours did your brave force need ???
2. Brava face. I never heard any leader from India saying N-Bomb. It's always from your side. Do you know why ??? *Cuz your milletry leadership Knows that Pak can't stand India in conventional warfare and e results so far from 1947,65,71 and 1999.
* pick what you want. It's your armies that RUN BACK or surrender in the end
3. And it remind me one incident happen in Siachin where few of your SSG guies return back to camp cuz their ammo was over  BTW I got banned last time for repeating that story  
So I used return and not run in this comment ;P


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## Kinetic

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????????... Video: NDTV.com



Many many thanks. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Trolling is not my intention but comming from a country which is home to SSG COMMANDOS who raised the white flag after getting air dropped to destroy Indian air fileds and who get beaten by Indian foot soldiers the only thing you can do is be humble.
> 
> SSG has done disasters in the past whereas there is not a single operation you can blame the PARA,MARCOS or GARUDS(The only Indian SOFs) for not doing their work properly...The mumbai attack was handled by NSG for you information and it was not incapable..it was slow because of the lack of aircrafts and bad decisions made by the state govt.



It was slow mainly fearing civilian causalities.


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## Sergi

Kinetic said:


> It was slow mainly fearing civilian causalities.



he is talking about reaction time. 
State government didn't understand that it was terrorist attack and NOT GANG-WAR. it cost first 1/1.5 hr. after that NSG was summoned. Well I don't think it was bad decision on the part of Govt. Nobody was expecting such attack or no one was prepared. And it would have been same everywhere except Delhi. But time loss till NSG to arrive on spot( various reasons from transport to pilot ) was crucial. That give those A.hole time to hole-up.


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> he is talking about reaction time.
> State government didn't understand that it was terrorist attack and NOT GANG-WAR. it cost first 1/1.5 hr. after that NSG was summoned. Well I don't think it was bad decision on the part of Govt. Nobody was expecting such attack or no one was prepared. And it would have been same everywhere except Delhi. But time loss till NSG to arrive on spot( various reasons from transport to pilot ) was crucial. That give those A.hole time to hole-up.



Now an IAF C-130-30J is kept on standby 24/7 365 days a year ready to deploy the NSG CT task force anywhere in India at short notice.


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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Now an IAF C-130-30J is kept on standby 24/7 365 days a year ready to deploy the NSG CT task force anywhere in India at short notice.



And additional NSG Regional hubs too. 
Plus every state has now its own well trained man power for such crisis and we wont be seeing police returning fire with .303 or service revolver. So situation isnt bad as it used to be.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> And additional NSG Regional hubs too.
> Plus every state has now its own well trained man power for such crisis and we wont be seeing police returning fire with .303 or service revolver. So situation isnt bad as it used to be.



Yup..lessons learnt.

BTW congrats on becoming a Senior Member!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



Those are not Indian.

Special Forces | ArabNews

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Nicaragua

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## EzioAltaïr

Slayer786 said:


> Well everyone looks good in photos, but what have they achieved so far? Where they involved in taking down the terrorists in Mumbai attacks? If they were, then why it took more than 48 hours to subdue 10 terrorists?
> 
> Training does not matter if they dont have the heart to face the enemy. if training could achieve the result than USA would not be needing drones to attack taliban, they would be sending their SF to kill them. It is because they are scared to fight and die.Hence the use of drones, where a large number of innocents die.
> 
> Similarly, in Kargil war when the IA or their SF were being beaten back, than they had to use Mirage 2000 with their high altitude bombing run to kill off the militants. Again you need heart to fight.



Silly troll. Can't differentiate the police from SFs. The terrorists were kicking the arses of our *police* force, which is terribly equipped, with old AK-47s and SMLEs. Even then the police put up a brave fight and tried their best to save many people. 

When the NSG and MarCos stepped in, the terrorist had their arses fried, so please, stop trolling. 

Knowing that you aren't gonna stop trolling, here's some food for thought. Why did your overhyped SSG and Pakistani Rangers lose 11 men to a group of 1000 or so students, and 100 militants, even though 60,000 rangers had participated in the attack?



Abingdonboy said:


>



Wooh, Ghillie suits. Why has the guy on the left worn a hat? It completely breaks stealth.


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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> + calling it cowardly to call in air stories during kargil! Are you livig in the Middle Ages? This is how wars in the 21st centuary are fought you fool!!!!



Many of them do. On ***, when we told a Pakisatni member that the Israeli CornerShots used by our SOFs, are better than the POF Eye, he responded, "We aren't cowards to hide behind walls and shoot. We fight the enemy face to face".

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

EzioAltaïr;3493315 said:


> Many of them do. On ***, when we told a Pakisatni member that the Israeli CornerShots used by our SOFs, are better than the POF Eye, he responded, "We aren't cowards to hide behind walls and shoot. We fight the enemy face to face".



Theres a difference also...they are taught to die in battle as it is considered sacred and if you go to youtube you will find many of their soldiers saying they want to die whereas our training is different.Our guys are taught to live and fight because no one has won a battle after dying...battles are won after making your enemy die for his country.

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## Abingdonboy

EzioAltaïr;3493315 said:


> Many of them do. On ***, when we told a Pakisatni member that the Israeli CornerShots used by our SOFs, are better than the POF Eye, he responded, "We aren't cowards to hide behind walls and shoot. We fight the enemy face to face".



Reminds me of my days in school learning of Spartans-they considered Archery a cowardly way of fighting!! This thinking has no place on the modern battlefield.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Theres a difference also...they are taught to die in battle as it is considered sacred and if you go to youtube you will find many of their soldiers saying they want to die whereas our training is different.Our guys are taught to live and fight because no one has won a battle after dying...battles are won after making your enemy die for his country.



Yep:
_*
&#8220;No poor bast*** ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bast**s die for their country.&#8221;*_

This is the Islamic/religious element stepping into their mindset, incredibly corrosive IMHO.

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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> Reminds me of my days in school learning of Spartans-they considered Archery a cowardly way of fighting!! This thinking has no place on the modern battlefield.



Dude Spartans? They are out of this world you know. They used to consider walls cowardly. They didn't build a wall around Sparta.  

P.S. And still kicked the arses of invaders by the way.


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## Abingdonboy

EzioAltaïr;3493334 said:


> Dude Spartans? They are out of this world you know. They used to consider walls cowardly. They didn't build a wall around Sparta.
> 
> P.S. And still kicked the arses of invaders by the way.


Yeah they were awesome but their civilisation also collapsed and this thinking migh thave been okay 2500+ years ago but today it is stupid and nonsensical.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Reminds me of my days in school learning of Spartans-they considered Archery a cowardly way of fighting!! This thinking has no place on the modern battlefield.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep:
> _*
> &#8220;No poor bast*** ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bast**s die for their country.&#8221;*_
> 
> This is the Islamic/religious element stepping into their mindset, incredibly corrosive IMHO.



Reminds me of a interview of a MARCOS guy who was asked "What will you do if you get caught..would you crack up?...would you give you life in the line of duty?"..The MARCOS guy replied.."No..i will kill them and come back"!!

Heres the video:-

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Reminds me of an interview of a MARCOS guy who was asked "What will you do if you get caught..would you surrender"..The MARCOS guy replied.."No..i will kill them and come back"!!
> 
> Heres the video:-



Very much so-good one!


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## imperialmen

EzioAltaïr;3493334 said:


> Dude Spartans? They are out of this world you know. They used to consider walls cowardly. They didn't build a wall around Sparta.
> 
> P.S. And still kicked the arses of invaders by the way.



They considered walls cowardly? What?! Their main fighting tactic was to hide behind a spear-wall and poke fun at the enemies who came near them.

IMO, Spartans are highly over-rated! They are just another set of Greeks, but the main difference was that they employed professional soldiers, unlike other Greek city-states who used levy citizen armies.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> BTW congrats on becoming a Senior Member!



hahahaah didn't noticed that 
But look like I am going to get banned soon

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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> *But look like I am going to get banned soon *


Why's that??


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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Why's that??



counter trolling 
I don't miss any chance to kick the trolls. And already got two tickets for that so was just forecasting

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## arp2041

*Ex-NSA Narayanan not in favour of 4 commando hubs*

West Bengal Governor MK Narayanan on Friday expressed reservations about establishing four regional hubs of the elite National Security Guard (NSG), one of the issues that created a chasm between him, in his previous avatar as National Security Advisor (NSA), and then home minister P Chidambaram following the 2008 Mumbai terror attack. 

Delivering the first lecture of a series initiated by the NSG to mark its raising day, Narayanan also said that he was concerned over moves to increase the strength of the force. 

"I am concerned on the current emphasis on increasing the size and numbers of the NSG. I also have reservations about the establishment of the four regional hubs," the former NSA said here, admitting that he was speaking against conventional wisdom. 

"The NSG is an elite special force intended to meet a specific situation and not intended to confront a normal law and order situation. Its strength does not lie in its numbers," he said at the event, attended among others by Indian Navy Chief Admiral DK Joshi, Intelligence Bureau director Nehchal Sandhu and NSG director general Subhash Joshi. 

"Its uniqueness lies in the fact that it consists of the bravest of the brave personnel having a great virtue and ability; specially trained for undertaking the most difficult of tasks; and provided with the best equipment available in the world," Narayanan said. 

"The increasing numbers, to my mind, is bound to dilute both the quality and capability of the force," he emphasised. 

Narayanan's reported differences with Chidambaram in the aftermath of the 26/11 strike is said to be the reason for his being shifted out as the National Security Adviser to the gubernatorial post in the Kolkata Raj Bhavan. 

Narayanan was NSA from 2005 to 2010 under Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. 

The four NSG hubs at Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad and Kolkata, that have been set up since 2010, were born out of criticism during the Mumbai attacks after the elite commando unit reached the megalopolis only the next morning, almost six hours after the attack began. 

The former NSA noted that the elite commando unit could reach any place in India within two hours and for that purpose favoured "captive" air assets to fly them to the place of need. 

At present, the NSG relies on the Indian Air Force (IAF) to airlift it to the place of operation. But it also has powers to requisition aircraft from civilian airlines whenever required. 

Narayanan also noted that the NSG, being a specialised unit, used by the government as a last resort to handle extraordinary crisis situations, should be "leaner and agile" and capable of carrying out operation with "speed, precision, along with covert capability" 

"An important attribute of the NSG, if not vital, is the nature of its personnel. It is the men who contribute to the force being different," he said, emphasising that NSG is the "only civilian special force" in the country and refusing to call other commando units of paramilitary and police forces, be it from the centre or states, as special forces. 

He also suggested that the NSG, being a counter-terrorism special force, should begin its own research units to have prior information on terror outfits and its operatives that pose a threat to national security. 

He also asked the force to have a "re-look" on its recruitment strategy as it draws from both the armed forces and the police-paramilitary forces of the country. 

Narayanan also wanted the NSG, and the government security establishment, to consider if the force needed to build counter-proliferation and nuclear-security capability. 

Ex-NSA Narayanan not in favour of 4 commando hubs


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## EzioAltaïr

imperialmen said:


> They considered walls cowardly? What?! Their main fighting tactic was to hide behind a spear-wall and poke fun at the enemies who came near them.
> 
> IMO, Spartans are highly over-rated! They are just another set of Greeks, but the main difference was that they employed professional soldiers, unlike other Greek city-states who used levy citizen armies.



Spear wall is just an effective tactic. Just for the record, they wore no armour, 'coz they considered that cowardly too. And wore red clothes so that a guy won't see a bleeding comrade, and not waste time helping him. They were a warrior race.


----------



## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


> *Ex-NSA Narayanan not in favour of 4 commando hubs*
> 
> West Bengal Governor MK Narayanan on Friday expressed reservations about establishing four regional hubs of the elite National Security Guard (NSG), one of the issues that created a chasm between him, in his previous avatar as National Security Advisor (NSA), and then home minister P Chidambaram following the 2008 Mumbai terror attack.
> 
> Delivering the first lecture of a series initiated by the NSG to mark its raising day, Narayanan also said that he was concerned over moves to increase the strength of the force.
> 
> "I am concerned on the current emphasis on increasing the size and numbers of the NSG. I also have reservations about the establishment of the four regional hubs," the former NSA said here, admitting that he was speaking against conventional wisdom.
> 
> "The NSG is an elite special force intended to meet a specific situation and not intended to confront a normal law and order situation. Its strength does not lie in its numbers," he said at the event, attended among others by Indian Navy Chief Admiral DK Joshi, Intelligence Bureau director Nehchal Sandhu and NSG director general Subhash Joshi.
> 
> "Its uniqueness lies in the fact that it consists of the bravest of the brave personnel having a great virtue and ability; specially trained for undertaking the most difficult of tasks; and provided with the best equipment available in the world," Narayanan said.
> 
> "The increasing numbers, to my mind, is bound to dilute both the quality and capability of the force," he emphasised.
> 
> Narayanan's reported differences with Chidambaram in the aftermath of the 26/11 strike is said to be the reason for his being shifted out as the National Security Adviser to the gubernatorial post in the Kolkata Raj Bhavan.
> 
> Narayanan was NSA from 2005 to 2010 under Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.
> 
> The four NSG hubs at Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad and Kolkata, that have been set up since 2010, were born out of criticism during the Mumbai attacks after the elite commando unit reached the megalopolis only the next morning, almost six hours after the attack began.
> 
> The former NSA noted that the elite commando unit could reach any place in India within two hours and for that purpose favoured "captive" air assets to fly them to the place of need.
> 
> At present, the NSG relies on the Indian Air Force (IAF) to airlift it to the place of operation. But it also has powers to requisition aircraft from civilian airlines whenever required.
> 
> Narayanan also noted that the NSG, being a specialised unit, used by the government as a last resort to handle extraordinary crisis situations, should be "leaner and agile" and capable of carrying out operation with "speed, precision, along with covert capability"
> 
> "An important attribute of the NSG, if not vital, is the nature of its personnel. It is the men who contribute to the force being different," he said, emphasising that NSG is the "only civilian special force" in the country and refusing to call other commando units of paramilitary and police forces, be it from the centre or states, as special forces.
> 
> He also suggested that the NSG, being a counter-terrorism special force, should begin its own research units to have prior information on terror outfits and its operatives that pose a threat to national security.
> 
> He also asked the force to have a "re-look" on its recruitment strategy as it draws from both the armed forces and the police-paramilitary forces of the country.
> 
> Narayanan also wanted the NSG, and the government security establishment, to consider if the force needed to build counter-proliferation and nuclear-security capability.
> 
> Ex-NSA Narayanan not in favour of 4 commando hubs



This logic is flawed IMHO. Now if the increase in manpower is not accompanied by an increase in funds for get NSG or if the training imparted is of a lesser quality than in the past the yes there would be cause for alarm but as it stands neither of these things happened the training is the same and the budget has Been increased substantially. Addtionally he problem wih he NSG was there were too many SRG agents and not enough SAG relatively so he NSG had become a VVIP protection agency with CT as only a small part of what it did. Now it seems be SRG is being cut back so the NSG will be more capable to conduct CT ops. The fact is India is a geographically large country and it makes sense to deploy resources in multiple locations in a crisis situation he first hour is crucial and if any help is 2+ hours away at best then be likelihood of an emergency turning into a catastrophe increases. Yes states are training up their own specialist units but for dealing wih well armed and well trained terrorists like in 26/11 you really need a hardened force like the NSG. I think a nation of 1.2 BILLION can find more than the current number of NSG operators up to he task, for some reason the ex-NSA seems to think that such a large nation has a very small number of those up to it.


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## Water Car Engineer

*Garud Commando*

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## Abingdonboy




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## imperialmen

EzioAltaïr;3496548 said:


> Spear wall is just an effective tactic. Just for the record, they wore no armour, 'coz they considered that cowardly too. And wore red clothes so that a guy won't see a bleeding comrade, and not waste time helping him. They were a warrior race.



Myths. Spartans wore armor like all the other Greeks, and them wearing crimson red is doubtful too(I think the 'red' clothing part is an invention by Hollywood). But they did leave their hair long and grew beards as a sign of masculinity.

BTW, Spartans fought in a phalanx formation, you can't really help an injured comrade in that formation unless you broke formation.


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## Kinetic

imperialmen said:


> They considered walls cowardly? What?! Their main fighting tactic was to hide behind a spear-wall and poke fun at the enemies who came near them.
> 
> IMO, Spartans are highly over-rated! They are just another set of Greeks, but the main difference was that they employed professional soldiers, unlike other Greek city-states who used levy citizen armies.



Spartans are highly over rated by rootless US who wants to find their history in Europe.


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## EzioAltaïr

imperialmen said:


> Myths. Spartans wore armor like all the other Greeks, and them wearing crimson red is doubtful too(I think the 'red' clothing part is an invention by Hollywood). But they did leave their hair long and grew beards as a sign of masculinity.
> 
> BTW, Spartans fought in a phalanx formation, you can't really help an injured comrade in that formation unless you broke formation.



Well yeah, most of what we know of Spartan history, is Hollywood myths. But that's true for almost all legendary fighters right?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>


Ahh, got my hope up this was somthing new!!

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## jobsikd

They looks good but pakistani SSG commandos are more superior then these dumb soldiers......


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## gslv mk3

jobsikd said:


> They looks good but pakistani SSG commandos are more superior then these dumb soldiers......



He joined the forum and instantly started trolling


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## kurup

gslv mk3 said:


> He joined the forum and instantly started trolling



Somebody should ask him to check the performance of SSG against India .......


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jobsikd said:


> They looks good but pakistani SSG commandos are *more superior* then these dumb soldiers......



in what......Dumbness? 

0ur guys have delievered where it mattered!

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## EzioAltaïr

jobsikd said:


> They looks good but pakistani SSG commandos are more superior then these dumb soldiers......



  Sure sure, go on and troll. The more we feed you, the sooner you get frustrated, the sooner you get pink.


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## EzioAltaïr

A question to anyone who can answer it for me. 

The IA regular troops use Motorola Walkie Talkies for communication. 

What do our SFs use?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG Commandos

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## Abingdonboy

Guys chck this out, a snap of some NSG weapons taken recently (26/11 really shook things up!!):

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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



Where can i find the full episode?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Where can i find the full episode?


It will be broadcast on the Military Channel (in the US) on the 5th of Novemeber. The Episode is called "City Under Siege ". So hopefully it will appear on the internet some time after that (fingers crossed) looks like an AWESOME doc!


For reference:

Military Channel :: TV Listings :: Black Ops



+COLDHEARTED-what did you think of NSG's weaponary?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> +COLDHEARTED-what did you think of NSG's weaponary?



Impressive...they need better equipments,hi-tech gadgets and they are there with the best in the world IMHO.(training and skills are already impressive)

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## Water Car Engineer

*Garud Commandos *

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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys chck this out, a snap of some NSG weapons taken recently (26/11 really shook things up!!):



Those MPRS guns look great.


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## peep

faridabadmetro.com


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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys chck this out, a snap of some NSG weapons taken recently (26/11 really shook things up!!):



Can someone id all the guns in there in there? 'specially the ones with the MPRS on top?


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## Night_Raven

Abingdonboy said:


> Yep:
> _*
> No poor bast*** ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bast**s die for their country.*_
> 
> This is the Islamic/religious element stepping into their mindset, incredibly corrosive IMHO.



Dude , stop quoting my signature !


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## Abingdonboy

EzioAltaïr;3541497 said:


> Can someone id all the guns in there in there? 'specially the ones with the MPRS on top?



Seem to be SIG 550/2s, MP5s and M-16s.


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## saumyasupratik

EzioAltaïr;3541497 said:


> Can someone id all the guns in there in there? 'specially the ones with the MPRS on top?



MP5A3/A5, MP5SD3/SD6, SG553SB, SG553LB, SG551SB, M16A1, SC70/90, SG551-P, PSG1, Negev, SSG3000.

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## saumyasupratik

Would have loved to see the G36K, G36C, AUG A3 or the TAR-21 Flattop and X-95 Flattop as assault rifles with MP7, APC9 and MP9 as SMG and SSG69, DSR1 and Blaser Tactical 2 as the sniper rifles used by the NSG along with the ones already being used.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA-71 WAR

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## jandk

indians always have bad equipments

indians always have bad equipments

indians always have bad equipments


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## Gessler

jandk said:


> indians always have bad equipments
> 
> indians always have bad equipments
> 
> indians always have bad equipments



But we have strong heart to fight!

The equipment is getting better by the day.


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## arcelite

jandk said:


> indians always have bad equipments
> 
> indians always have bad equipments
> 
> indians always have bad equipments




Sounds lke a pakistani false flagger!


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## Abingdonboy

Anyone got any picsof the Indo-US joint SOF exercise that took place Oct 15-Nov 4 at the IA SF training school Nahan, Himachal Pradesh?


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## Death Rattle




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## jiki

may be the Indo-US joint SOF exercise in nahan have shifted to nov 15 to dec 4 , as per a 2 to 3 week old article in idrw.org.


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## jiki

hey guys i have a small video of joint exercise of PARAS & MARCOS "operation Madad" in paradip (coastal odisha) , may be it is the 1st vid on net where u can find the above both together , but how can i post it as i am totaly new to this forum plz suggest. Although the quality of the vid is not so gr8 but u can clearly identify the folks and dont go for the language of the vid as it is a regional report so it hav covrd in dat regional language(odia).


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## SamantK

jiki said:


> hey guys i have a small video of joint exercise of PARAS & MARCOS "operation Madad" in paradip (coastal odisha) , may be it is the 1st vid on net where u can find the above both together , but how can i post it as i am totaly new to this forum plz suggest. Although the quality of the vid is not so gr8 but u can clearly identify the folks and dont go for the language of the vid as it is a regional report so it hav covrd in dat regional language(odia).


Upload in YouTube and paste the link here...


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## jiki

samantk said:


> Upload in YouTube and paste the link here...



i have already uploaded it in youtube but here it asking for atleast 15 no of post to post a link


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## Gessler

jiki said:


> i have already uploaded it in youtube but here it asking for atleast 15 no of post to post a link



yes, only members with 15+ posts can post a link. increase post-count.


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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> i have already uploaded it in youtube but here it asking for atleast 15 no of post to post a link



Or post the title of the YT vid and we can find it ourselves!


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## jiki

here is the video of " operation MADAD" u can find paras and marcos as well. As its a joint exercise between indian army and india navy

indian PARAS and MARCOS together - YouTube

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> here is the video of " operation MADAD" u can find paras and marcos as well. As its a joint exercise between indian army and india navy
> 
> indian PARAS and MARCOS together - YouTube


Whoa- VERY nice bro! Nice catch!


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## Tshering22

Abingdonboy said:


> Whoa- VERY nice bro! Nice catch!



Imagine these guys against Ajtr's Maoists. 

If only we have a government capable to support such brave men.

We need more CT operations training with SPETSNAZ, GROM and bush warfare tactics with Vietnamese.


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## Abingdonboy

Tshering22 said:


> Imagine these guys against Ajtr's Maoists.
> 
> If only we have a government capable to support such brave men.
> 
> We need more CT operations training with SPETSNAZ, GROM and bush warfare tactics with Vietnamese.



Using these guys againts the Maoists would be overkill buddy! The COBRAs are already cleaning up.

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> Whoa- VERY nice bro! Nice catch!



 i am glad to see this video is spreading to a no of milltary dis forum sites mainly to BR, MP.Net ,*** etc...yahh actually i had watched it while watching a news bulletin then i asked a frnd over there in tht channel to send this clip to me and the very next moment i uploaded in in YT , but after a day it got released by the channel in their video section so every hard collecting trics got scrapped 

ok btw this exercise was purely for the coastal security purpose to prevent 26/11 like situation, in the later part of this video there is an additional collector who's just repeating the same thing nothng nu (as u all know military jingos like us have a grater exp in this field than this mere civilian burocrats) but here the most uncomn thng is that how nor normal ppl just enjoying the exercise where as we are striving to get one like this in daily life

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> i am glad to see this video is spreading to a no of milltary dis forum sites mainly to BR, MP.Net ,*** etc...yahh actually i had watched it while watching a news bulletin then i asked a frnd over there in tht channel to send this clip to me and the very next moment i uploaded in in YT , but after a day it got released by the channel in their video section so every hard collecting trics got scrapped
> 
> ok btw this exercise was purely for the coastal security purpose to prevent 26/11 like situation, in the later part of this video there is an additional collector who's just repeating the same thing nothng nu (as u all know military jingos like us have a grater exp in this field than this mere civilian burocrats) but here the most uncomn thng is that how nor normal ppl just enjoying the exercise where as we are striving to get one like this in daily life


Nice work anyway pal! I've never actually seen visuals of PARA (SF) and MARCOs training togther. Any idea if this happens on a regular basis or this one ex was the first in this partciular area?


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## jiki

the exercise "operation MADAD" is a very less konown exercise in our electronic media u cant also find any details abt it on the web but as per my knowing it had stated after the 26/11 for coastal security purpose (as paradip is one of the biggest port in india , very highly industrial area, a no of oil refinery , a lot of fdi is comng over dere in comng yrs like POSCO steel) involving various org at various time just yr before it was held between bsf and coast guard , so i am smelling a MHA hands in this exercise rather than our eastern command of army or navy

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> the exercise "operation MADAD" is a very less konown exercise in our electronic media u cant also find any details abt it on the web but as per my knowing it had stated after the 26/11 for coastal security purpose (as paradip is one of the biggest port in india , very highly industrial area, a no of oil refinery , a lot of fdi is comng over dere in comng yrs like POSCO steel) involving various org at various time just yr before it was held between bsf and coast guard , so i am smelling a MHA hands in this exercise rather than our eastern command of army or navy


Yeah we can see that post 26/11 a lot of measures have been taken to sure up industrial secuirty. MARCOs reguarly train on oil platforms out at sea and at their own mock-ups on base to take back any captured ones that may have been attacked by terrorists. The security establishment has woken up to the fact that such locations need to be protected because of economic concerns as much as anything else.


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## arp2041

^^^ @Abingdonboy i want to know what will be done by GOI in case of a plane Hijack like IC 814, do we have the guts to send our commandos to free the plane or will we see the repeat of freeing some terrorists & adhering to there demands??


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## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


> ^^^ @Abingdonboy i want to know what will be done by GOI in case of a plane Hijack like IC 814, do we have the guts to send our commandos to free the plane or will we see the repeat of freeing some terrorists & adhering to there demands??



Well it is very hard to say. There are just too many variables these days. 2012 is not 1999. After 9/11 the whole idea of hijacking and terrorism has changed. But anyway lets say another IC-814 incident happened in absolutlty identical fashion to the first time. And let's say there is no NSG air-marshal team onboard the plane- if there was I have no doubt once the plane landed the local aouthorites would need to sort out the arrangements to dispose of 5 wasted hijackers! And let's assume there is no strenghtened cockpit door so the hijackers can get in to the cockpit to take control of the plane. So the plane lands in Amritsar, these days state and city police forces all over India have SWAT-like units ready for just such an event not to mention most larger airports in India have a sizable CISF QRT. Now it is unlikely the GoI would allow the plane to get off the ground- if that were the case then the NSG could be at Amritsar within 90 mins and could be storming the plane within 3 hours of the plane landing at Amritsar. But say the plane was able to take off and land in Lahore- there is very little India can do and the Paksitnai authorities would probably not act any differently to 1999. So the plane lands in Dubai, now I'd say these days the situation has changed and that the chances of the UAE assisting the hijackers in anyway is remote and they would be inclinded to not allow the plane to depart and strom it themselves or atleast be open to the NSG coming in and doing it for them. But say it takes off and lands in Afghanistan. Now the Afghanistan of today is very different to the Afghanistan of 1999 so say it does land in Afghanistan I have no doubt whatsoever the NSG would be storming that plane within hours of it touching down. Not to mention the number of Western SOFs in Afghanistan right now is quite high so it is not implausible the Afghan government would request their assitence to end the situation-but they would probobly be more inclinded to wait for Indian forces to handle it as if it goes wrong it is going to go VERY wrong and no outside government wants that kind of mess on their laps. But understanding that the fact the Taliban had circled the airliner on the Tarmac was one of the main reaons the NSG couldn't launch an assualt is key, today with the Taliban out of office there would not be any resistance to the NSG sweeping in and taking back the plane.


But I'd say the mindset has changed today and lessons have been learnt from 1999 and 26/11. I think there would be much more willingness now to use force (NSG) to resolve this situation.

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## Abingdonboy

But I have to empisis there are just too many varibles and any repeat inicdent would of course not follow this exact script. ONce again the GoI could be put into a postion where they are powerless to act and wield their sword arm.


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## arp2041

Abingdonboy said:


> But I have to empisis there are just too many varibles and any repeat inicdent would of course not follow this exact script. ONce again the GoI could be put into a postion where they are powerless to act and wield their sword arm.



One more thing, i had heard in news some time back that post 9/11, India has also made some changes to it's approach towards cases of plane hijacking, wherein IAF can shoot down the plane if GOI thinks that the plane is a threat to any important installations like nuclear reactor or power centers in New Delhi, etc. I know this is a hypothetical question, but do u think any possibility of this action indeed be taken by IAF??


----------



## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


> One more thing, i had heard in news some time back that post 9/11, India has also made some changes to it's approach towards cases of plane hijacking, wherein IAF can shoot down the plane if GOI thinks that the plane is a threat to any important installations like nuclear reactor or power centers in New Delhi, etc. I know this is a hypothetical question, but do u think any possibility of this action indeed be taken by IAF??



I was going to mention this elemant but I thought I'd go by the events of IC-814 where it was clear from the outset these guys wanted to negotiate more than kill. 

All I would say is that the IAF would evaluate the situation on its merits and go by the guidelines set out by the GoI. If they felt the threat posed was sufficient to warrant the shooting down of an airliner then they'd bloody well do it!

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## arp2041

*CISF to get commando training to guard vessels*

The Central Industrial Security Force, which got a nod from the Shipping Ministry for deployment on merchant vessels on piracy prone sea routes, will be trained with the Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy, officials said.

Initially, the state-owned merchant vessels will be given a preference in the deployment process. The CISF is preparing a batch of 150-200 personnel to be deployed on merchant vessels. These personnel will be also trained to cope with &#8216;sea-sickness&#8217; and taught international laws and marine science. Before they undergo training, they will face an interview that will determine their mental strength.

&#8220;Each ship will be provided with five armed CISF personnel, specially trained for the job. Special training will be imparted to men to protect their weapons. The Indian Shipowner&#8217;s Association has been demanding this security for long,&#8221; said a senior CISF official.

CISF to get commando training to guard vessels - Indian Express


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jiki said:


> here is the video of " operation MADAD" u can find paras and marcos as well. As its a joint exercise between indian army and india navy
> 
> indian PARAS and MARCOS together - YouTube



Wow!

I think there is a Mp-5 at 00:39 and the guy carrying it can be seen hanging upside down at 1:07 involved in room intervention drill.

Secondly the PARA and MARCOS team were operatng differently not together but yeah in the same Operation.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Wow!
> 
> I think there is a Mp-5 at 00:39 and the guy carrying it can be seen hanging upside down at 1:07 involved in room intervention drill.
> 
> Secondly the PARA and MARCOS team were operatng differently not together but yeah in the same Operation.



True I too noticed that there were no "mixed" formations of PARA (SF) and MARCOs but then this is a very short vid and we don't know what really happens. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen! I was just happy to see all the guys fully geared up and looking good!



+ great to have you back from your "holiday"!!


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> True I too noticed that there were no "mixed" formations of PARA (SF) and MARCOs but then this is a very short vid and we don't know what really happens. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen! I was just happy to see all the guys fully geared up and looking good!
> 
> 
> 
> + great to have you back from your "holiday"!!



Got banned for a really stupid comment which was more funny than abusive..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA-Israel

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS(LATE 80s-Early90s)

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MARCOS(LATE 80s-Early90s)



RAMBO!!!!!!!!!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> RAMBO!!!!!!!!!!




Watch MJ then.....



Nov 11, 2012 8:32am | Facebook


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## wakapdf

Abingdonboy said:


> RAMBO!!!!!!!!!!



I was thinking the same thing. Looks deadly nonetheless

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PARA-Israel



And what might he be doing there.......................................


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> And what might he be doing there.......................................



UN and other "peaceful things"...obviously


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> UN and other "peaceful things"...obviously



Of course, of course that goes without saying.................


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## jobsikd

That's good stuff... but indian special forces don't have that status which pak SSG commandos possess in the world


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## RPK

jobsikd said:


> That's good stuff... but indian special forces don't have that status which pak SSG commandos possess in the world



they dont need


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## Abingdonboy

jobsikd said:


> That's good stuff... but indian special forces don't have that status which pak SSG commandos possess in the world



What status is that? I've heard that Indian SOFs are well regarded in the West- I've never heard the same about Pakistani SOFs.


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## mb444

Nobody's even heard of Indian SOF in the west.... Pull the other one...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jobsikd said:


> That's good stuff... but indian special forces don't have that status which pak SSG commandos possess in the world



Yeah right...Indian SOFs have hardly a huge failure in their history which the other SOFs have.

Compare the assault rifle,RL,etc and you would know what you are comparing to..We have the best equipped,best trained and the most experienced SOF in the region.



mb444 said:


> Nobody's even heard of Indian SOF in the west.... Pull the other one...



My American friend once asked me "Is Bangladesh a city in India or Pakistan"...Whats your point really....SOF are no rockstars.They are not supposed to be "famous" you know!

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## v9s

Abingdonboy said:


> What status is that? I've heard that Indian SOFs are well regarded in the West- I've never heard the same about Pakistani SOFs.



lol...peddle that sh!t to your own countrymen pls.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> My American friend once asked me "Is Bangladesh a city in India or Pakistan"...Whats your point really....SOF are no rockstars.They are not supposed to be "famous" you know!



tell that to abingdonboy

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

v9s said:


> lol...peddle that sh!t to your own countrymen pls.
> 
> 
> 
> tell that to abingdonboy



Well,he used the words "well regarded" while the other guy was reffering to being famous.

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## Abingdonboy

v9s said:


> tell that to abingdonboy



Did I say "famous"??!! NO, I said "well regarded" by those in the know. There is a HUGE difference between famous and well regarded by those who matter. Those who know the Indian SOF in the West hold the Indian SOF with high esteem. The Indian SOF lives by a code of living in the shadows, letting their work speak for themselves and not publicising their actions so of course their not famous-they DON'T WANT TO BE! I could tell you a few home truths wrt your SOFs but I don't want to get an infraction so I'll leave it there.

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## v9s

Abingdonboy said:


> I could tell you a few home truths wrt your SOFs but I don't want to get an infraction so I'll leave it there.



No you couldn't. Once again, please cut the crap.


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## anathema

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MARCOS(LATE 80s-Early90s)



Nice ! - Nice hunt for the pics


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## Abingdonboy

v9s said:


> No you couldn't. Once again, please cut the crap.



That goes doubly so for you pal. I don't know what you are taking offence to-I'm not the one who's gone to another's SF thread and started bad-mouthing them!

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## v9s

Abingdonboy said:


> That goes doubly so for you pal. I don't know what you are taking offence to-I'm not the one who's gone to another's SF thread and started bad-mouthing them!



Oh i'm not bad mouthing them. I'm sure Indian special forces are formidable.

What I meant was peddle bs statements like this:



> I've heard that Indian SOFs are well regarded in the West- I've never heard the same about Pakistani SOFs.



to your own countrymen.


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## Abingdonboy

v9s said:


> Oh i'm not bad mouthing them. I'm sure Indian special forces are formidable.
> 
> What I meant was peddle bs statements like this:
> 
> 
> 
> to your own countrymen.



What's BS about this statement?? This is a FACT. The Indian SOFs _are _ well regarded by the West (who have knowledge of the Indian SOFs).


Just give it a rest mate- if you have nothing constructive to say then don't say anything at all.

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## v9s

Abingdonboy said:


> What's BS about this statement?? This is a FACT. The Indian SOFs _are _ well regarded by the West (who have knowledge of the Indian SOFs).



Yes, and in the same breath, you go on to say _"I've never heard the same about Pakistani SOFs."_

That's what makes it a typical Indian bs statement.


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## Abingdonboy

v9s said:


> Yes, and in the same breath, you go on to say _"I've never heard the same about Pakistani SOFs."_
> 
> That's what makes it a typical Indian bs statement.



Well I (personally) simply haven't heard the same about Pakistani SOFs-this is a FACT.

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## chairborne ranger

Marine Commando R V Kachre, from the Navy's elite Marine Commando Force, spends his time-off by writing a letter to his newly-wed wife.

classic


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS 1st Batch

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## kurup

^^ Is that a dead leopard in the front???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

octopus said:


> ^^ Is that a dead leopard in the front???



Yes.......


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MARCOS 1st Batch



I love Marcos and love the pic too ... but the dead leo ?


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yes.......



That is cruel ...............

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## Gessler

octopus said:


> That is cruel ...............



MARCOS have to be cruel. otherwise they'll be lying in the place of the leopard.

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## Kompromat

gessler said:


> MARCOS have to be cruel. otherwise they'll be lying in the place of the leopard.



Leopards are protected species. Any sort of poaching is illegal.

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## chairborne ranger

fecking show-offs


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Aeronaut said:


> Leopards are protected species. Any sort of poaching is illegal.



Its a 20 years old pic.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



Anyone got a link of the full version of this?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Anyone got a link of the full version of this?



Unfortuntaly I've still not been able to watch it!


But for our US freinds, episode in FULL:







proxy servers aren't working for me. Let me know if anyone (outside of US) is succesful in watching this vid!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Varunastra

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Anyone got a link of the full version of this?



i saw the full documentry on history channel 11 pm monday.......the documentry is awesome except for the fact that they show CRPF as Marcos and Marcos commanders as NSG commanders in one scene


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## Abingdonboy

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> i saw the full documentry on history channel 11 pm monday.......the documentry is awesome except for the fact that they show CRPF as Marcos and Marcos commanders as NSG commanders in one scene



Lucky you bro!!!!


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## blackops

jobsikd said:


> That's good stuff... but indian special forces don't have that status which pak SSG commandos possess in the world



its good they dont who will like a history of surrenders to farmers and foot soldiers after being air dropped lol @SSG


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## Abingdonboy



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## Lipizzaner_Stallion




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## Lipizzaner_Stallion




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## Abingdonboy

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


>



Not SF. Just fleet security.


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## arcelite

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


>



COVER the faces


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## Abingdonboy

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


>



Mate, here is the censored pic. Please refrain from posting pics of SFs with their faces uncovered like this:







The rest of the series of pics (censored) from this ex can be found here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-80.html#post3376334


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## Gessler

I think the armed forces must force all SFs to wear masks instead

Sometimes a pic is very good but with censored faces it looks odd and unattractive to use as deskpot
wallpaper etc.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He is the one.



This guy is fricking awesome!!


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## Abingdonboy

gessler said:


> I think the armed forces must force all SFs to wear masks instead
> 
> Sometimes a pic is very good but with censored faces it looks odd and unattractive to use as deskpot
> wallpaper etc.


If you notice, when it does count Indian SOFs do wear face masks, but occasionally they are caught without them for whatever reason.


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## Abingdonboy



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## arcelite

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate, here is the censored pic. Please refrain from posting pics of SFs with their faces uncovered like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rest of the series of pics (censored) from this ex can be found here:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-80.html#post3376334



Delete the uncensored ones!


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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


>



Mate great find! Keep on posting more pics of Indian forces in digital camo!


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## Abingdonboy

Not SOFs I know, but still:

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## Dandpatta

In a way, I feel sorry for the personnel of the SPGs and various personnel of the Military who guard "VIP" of India . I mean, these guys train so hard and are prepared to give their lives for the country but it must be a morally deflating psyche to 'guard' arses who are mired in scams and controversies .. or those ministers (and relatives like Robert Badra) who have a very low moral radar and still function as VIPs..


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## Abingdonboy

Dandpatta said:


> In a way, I feel sorry for the personnel of the SPGs and various personnel of the Military who guard "VIP" of India . I mean, these guys train so hard and are prepared to give their lives for the country but it must be a morally deflating psyche to 'guard' arses who are mired in scams and controversies .. or those ministers (and relatives like Robert Badra) who have a very low moral radar and still function as VIPs..



Don't talk nonsense. These guys are utter proffesionals, they don't form an opnion on their protectee that affescts their moral or job. These guys have a very specific job which they take seriously-they don't let all the other BS get in the way. Just like the Indian militiary they satay apololitical and remoed from the entire nonsense.

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## Abingdonboy



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## arp2041

*Exercise EKUVERIN-12: India-Maldives Military Engagement*


The exercise that lasted for around 13 days, started on November 12, 2012. 45 soldiers of the Madras Regiment represented the Indian side, with an equal number of MNDF Marine Corps soldiers. Named 'EKUVERIN-12'+, it focussed primarily on Counter-Terrorism/Insurgency & hostage rescue missions. Facilities of the Maratha Light Infantry Regimental Centre in Belgaum were utilised for this engagement. The next round would be held in 2013, with Maldives playing host. Posted below are a collection of pictures from the exercise. Going by the nature of missions undertaken & the fact that the soldiers here are seen armed with AK-series weapons, I'm assuming that the Indian side included members of the 'Ghatak' Platoon.











































Exercise EKUVERIN-12: India-Maldives Military Engagement [Photographs] - AA Me, IN

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## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


> *Exercise EKUVERIN-12: India-Maldives Military Engagement*
> 
> 
> The exercise that lasted for around 13 days, started on November 12, 2012. 45 soldiers of the Madras Regiment represented the Indian side, with an equal number of MNDF Marine Corps soldiers. Named 'EKUVERIN-12'+, it focussed primarily on Counter-Terrorism/Insurgency & hostage rescue missions. Facilities of the Maratha Light Infantry Regimental Centre in Belgaum were utilised for this engagement. The next round would be held in 2013, with Maldives playing host. Posted below are a collection of pictures from the exercise. Going by the nature of missions undertaken & the fact that the soldiers here are seen armed with AK-series weapons, I'm assuming that the Indian side included members of the 'Ghatak' Platoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exercise EKUVERIN-12: India-Maldives Military Engagement [Photographs] - AA Me, IN


Not necessarily Ghataks- as they were focusing on CT/CI missions these could be regular GIs as the AK is (for the next couple of years) the IA's rifle of choice for CI/CT.But it is possible as I don't think GI are allowed the freedom to camo up their INSAS.


I do like the Maldevian multi-cam though! Interesting that their higher ups aren't wearing it:


----------



## saumyasupratik

Abingdonboy said:


> Not necessarily Ghataks- as they were focusing on CT/CI missions these could be regular GIs as the AK is (for the next couple of years) the IA's rifle of choice for CI/CT.But it is possible as I don't think GI are allowed the freedom to camo up their INSAS.
> 
> 
> I do like the Maldevian multi-cam though! Interesting that their higher ups aren't wearing it:



That's a Vz. 58 not an AK.


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## Abingdonboy

saumyasupratik said:


> That's a Vz. 58 not an AK.



No- SFs didn't take part from either nation.

+ okay, AK familly!


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## saumyasupratik

Abingdonboy said:


> No- SFs didn't take part from either nation.
> 
> + okay, AK familly!



I removed the "SF" as soon as I saw as Madras Regiment.Could be Ghataks, those tac-vests aren't very widespread as of now and the Vz. 58 was the assault rifle of choice of the SF and Para's before being replaced by the Tavor.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

arp2041 said:


>



The guy in the front is a Para Commando.


Cool pics..excellent techniques.Good to see IA investing heavily in training.


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## Koovie

No pics from the ND celebrations? AFAIK Marcos performed in Mumbai


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## Koovie

jiki said:


> here is the video of " operation MADAD" u can find paras and marcos as well. As its a joint exercise between indian army and india navy
> 
> indian PARAS and MARCOS together - YouTube




Awesome video mate! 
Good to see MARCOS and Paras training together.
Cant wait for our very own SF command in some time. Hopefully it will receive a separate budget


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Awesome video mate!
> Good to see MARCOS and Paras training together.
> Cant wait for our very own SF command in some time. Hopefully it will receive a separate budget



Yep I'm very much liking foreword to that too and yes it will have its own separate budget.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Gessler

Random pics, may have already been posted...
























PARAs and GARUDs...





Indian Para Commando with a Ruskie troop

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## Abingdonboy

gessler said:


> Random pics, may have already been posted...



Not SF sir.


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## hkdas

watch "&#2327;&#2352;&#2332;&#2340;&#2375; &#2327;&#2352;&#2369;&#2337;&#2364; &#2361;&#2367;&#2306;&#2342;&#2369;&#2360;&#2381;&#2340;&#2366;&#2344; &#2325;&#2375;...!", a documentary about garud commandos on NDTV.


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## hkdas

It is the best documentary about indian special forces. i can't paste the link.

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> It is the best documentary about indian special forces. i can't paste the link.



Thanks here is the link: ????? ????? ?????????? ??...! ?????? - ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ????

[video]http://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/ndtv-india-documentary/257589[/video]

PS: Why is that reporter allways wearing the exactly same dress?

+ Notice that the Garuds also use Negev + INSAS LMGs

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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> Not SF sir.



Hehehe...I saw their veils and mistook em for Garuds...



Abingdonboy said:


> Not SF sir.



Hehehe...I saw their veils and mistook em for Garuds...


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Thanks here is the link: ????? ????? ?????????? ??...! ?????? - ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ????
> 
> [video]http://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/ndtv-india-documentary/257589[/video]
> 
> PS: Why is that reporter allways wearing the exactly same dress?
> 
> + Notice that the Garuds also use Negev + INSAS LMGs


Nice catch mate!! Now NDTV have made 2 documentaries on the Garuds and 1 on PARA (SF) next is MARCOs (we can only hope!). 
Very impressed with how far they have come- if you look at the Rocky And Mayur show on the Gardis from 2 years ago to 2012. 


+ it was cool seeing their entire range of operations from CSAR to FAC and force protection duty. Had never actually seen Indian for es using laser designators nor had I seen downed pilot rescue drills.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice catch mate!! Now NDTV have made 2 documentaries on the Garuds and 1 on PARA (SF) next is MARCOs (we can only hope!).
> Very impressed with how far they have come- if you look at the Rocky And Mayur show on the Gardis from 2 years ago to 2012.
> 
> 
> + it was cool seeing their entire range of operations from CSAR to FAC and force protection duty. Had never actually seen Indian for es using laser designators nor had I seen downed pilot rescue drills.




My Hindi is quite bad, but as far as I have understood the laser designators are used to find targets for LGBs right?
Any ya, the next logical step is to show the MARCOs on NDTV


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> My Hindi is quite bad, but as far as I have understood the laser designators are used to find targets for LGBs right?
> Any ya, the next logical step is to show the MARCOs on NDTV



Right- the FAC (foreword air controller) on the ground "lazes" the target with the designator and the LGB follows this laser to the intended target.
@Koovie I wouldn't hold my breath on a MARCOs documentary anytime soon!!

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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR have you checked out the new Garuds vid?


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## Water Car Engineer



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## jiki

Koovie said:


> Thanks here is the link: ????? ????? ?????????? ??...! ?????? - ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ????
> 
> [video]http://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/ndtv-india-documentary/257589[/video]



i think rajeev ranjan is one of the most enthusiastic stretagic media reporter , bcoz of him alot of unseen pics and untold story of indian military have came out in public and to whole world . Very simple, layman style arguments and questions make his hindi reporting (unlike our so called great eng speaking journos like barkha who dont even know what to ask a military personal at which time ) even more attractive to general people. Bcoz of his som magnificiant SF docu jingos like us is now able to jumping up infrnt of our neighbouring frnds when it comes up to the SF releated discussion .. 

so HATS OFF to him


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## Water Car Engineer

Koovie said:


> Thanks here is the link: ????? ????? ?????????? ??...! ?????? - ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ????
> 
> [video]http://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/ndtv-india-documentary/257589[/video]
> 
> PS: Why is that reporter allways wearing the exactly same dress?
> 
> + Notice that the Garuds also use Negev + INSAS LMGs



Indian SFs have come a long way.

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> Right- the FAC (foreword air controller) on the ground "lazes" the target with the designator and the LGB follows this laser to the intended target.
> @Koovie I wouldn't hold my breath on a MARCOs documentary anytime soon!!



i would like to add the SFF into this wish list of MARCOS becoz imo SFF is the most secretive among armed forces and not even a single media covrage of this unit had not yet seen so far .

Although this agency are of their own kind , standard and different mode of operation , and it is far beyond my ability to rate this guys but after gethering some amnt of knowledge i would like to arrange these guys in following manner:

1--> MARCOS(IN) --> most deadly
2---> PARAS(IA)--> most proffesional
3----> GARUDS(IAF)---> new guys in town but improving very fast
4-----> SFF(RAW)----> most secretive (i don no why)
5-----> RR(IA C & I part)---> most ruthless ( dat's why they are fit for sending pigs to hell)
6-----> COBRA( CRPF )----> one of the best under MHA , best for naxals & maoist and in house jungle warfare but need to be 
more militarised

last but not the least 
7---> NSG (MHA)---> imo most potent for the urban SWAT operation, hijacking and CQBs operations , true definition of commandos .... having a large potential buttttttt we are neglecting it and deteriorating its potential


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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> i would like to add the SFF into this wish list of MARCOS becoz imo SFF is the most secretive among armed forces and not even a single media covrage of this unit had not yet seen so far .
> 
> Although this agency are of their own kind , standard and different mode of operation , and it is far beyond my ability to rate this guys but after gethering some amnt of knowledge i would like to arrange these guys in following manner:
> 
> 1--> MARCOS(IN) --> most deadly
> 2---> PARAS(IA)--> most proffesional
> 3----> GARUDS(IAF)---> new guys in town but improving very fast
> 4-----> SFF(RAW)----> most secretive (i don no why)
> 5-----> RR(IA C & I part)---> most ruthless ( dat's why they are fit for sending pigs to hell)
> 6-----> COBRA( CRPF )----> one of the best under MHA , best for naxals & maoist and in house jungle warfare but need to be
> more militarised
> 
> last but not the least
> 7---> NSG (MHA)---> imo most potent for the urban SWAT operation, hijacking and CQBs operations , true definition of commandos .... having a large potential buttttttt we are neglecting it and deteriorating its potential


Sir, I've posted this before, so I'll do it again:



Abingdonboy said:


> I'll have a crack at it.
> 
> 
> Firstly there are ONLY *THREE* actual/true Special Forces (SF/SOF) in India-
> IAF-*Garud*
> Garud Commando Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> IA-*PARA (SF)*
> Para Commandos (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> IN-*MARCOs*
> MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> +note- the PARA (SF) are part of the PARA regiment that also has regular PARA (airborne) btns as part of it who are well trained but not SF just like regular airborne forces found in other armies like 82nd Airborne of US.
> 
> By and large Indian SOFs very much like to keep to themselves and let their actions speak for themselves, this is sort of their unofficial mantra. As such, unlike with other SOFs, you won't find too much info on them.
> 
> 
> +There is also the *RR (Rashtriya Rifles)*- a dedicated Counter Insurgency force of the IA who operate mostly in J&K. They are drwan from all arms of the IA although it is mandated 50% of the force must be from the infantry and all members are deputated to the force for a period of time before returning to their parent units.
> 
> Rashtriya Rifles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there are a other specilzed forces-
> -*Ghataks* (In western lexicon they would be reffered to as "Special Operations Capable") are Special Operations Capable infantry platoons attactched toevery Infantry battalion in the Indian Army .
> 
> Ghatak Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*SFF/Special Group*-Under remit of RAW and act in similar ways to the SAD of CIA. Whilst SFF were made up of mainly Tibetan refugees, Special Group (a counter terror unit within the SFF whose existence is officially denied by GoI) is manned by mostly Indian SOF personal on deputation. Very little is actually known about these unit but whenever you here of RAW lifting some bad guy in the region say Nepal,BD or SL it is more likely than not this is SFF/SG.
> 
> Special Frontier Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> -*NSG* (a special intervention force) split in two groups (Special Action Group, SAG and Special Ranger Group,SRG), SAG is made up of IA guys on 3 year deputation tours and are the actual "shooters" who carry out any sort of domestic counter terror action and on the whole remains elusive and shadowy. SRG are the more camera-friendly guys whose sole responsibility is VVIP protection and members of SRG are CaPFs on deputation. It should be noted that despite NSG being initially set up as a dedicated CT force because of the babu nature in India the number of personal in SRG now vastly outnumber the number of "shooters" in SAG.The SAG atleast could be understood to be similar to the FBI's HRT in remit and training.
> 
> 
> National Security Guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Then there are the numourous CaPFs who also have specilized units:
> 
> -*CRPF COBRAs:* A dedicated anti-Naxal force which has grown in both size and capabilty and are actually delivering tangible results in the field. Armed with ever increasing tactics (notably recently the induction of dedicated sniper-spotter teams for intel gathering and other such sniper related work) and weaponary including recently the X-95.
> 
> Commando Battalion for Resolute Action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> -*ITBP Commandos:* A specilised unit within ITBP which is well trained and,relatively, well armed. The force has been deployed (for whatever reason) to protect the Indian diplomatic mission in Afghanistan after targetted bobmbings.
> 
> Indo-Tibetan Border Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*BSF:* The BSF has mulitple "commando" units including the Crocidile commandos (seriously this is thir name!) whose responsiblty is patrolling creeks and water bodies close to Pakistan.
> 
> Border Security Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*RPF: The Railway Protection force* too has their own dedicated commando unit. I'm not too clued up on them tbh so can't really give a fair analysis of their training/equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These days most states have Special Response/Emergency response units especially in response to 26/11. Surprisingly it does seem like most of these are well trained and well equipped.
> 
> 
> There needs to be a further understanding of what the true definition of Special Forces and Commandos are to stop this unneeded and pointless proliferation of the "commando" identity it cheapens it for all those units that are truly deserving of the title and have worked bloody hard to earn it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To note, the *SPG* is *NOT * a special/commando force as TOO many people claim. They are an incredibly well trained and equipeed executive protection agency for PM/ex PMs, Pres and their families- THAT IS ALL.
> 
> 
> Special Protection Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And Sir, calling a certain SF the "most deadly" or "most professional" etc is not needed- they are ALL deadly in their own right and in their own way. You may say the PARA (SF) are the most professional but does that make the MARCOs and others unprofessional??!

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## Abingdonboy

*Indian Air Force Special Forces (Garuds):*


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## Abingdonboy

*Indian Air Force Special Forces (Garuds) contd:*

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## Abingdonboy

*Indian Air Force Special Forces (Garuds) contd:*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR have you checked out the new Garuds vid?



Yup..but without audio.Life is busy these days.

Anyways..they look much more professional and well equipped than before.Surely looked like a SF and i take my words back of under rating them.

Would have loved to see BPJ and a helmet but apart from that the weaponry was top notch and skills were good too.

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## Koovie

Central Reserve Police Force COBRAs






Some "older" pics:

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Some "older" pics:



These are not MARCOs/SF.




Koovie said:


>



And these are also not likely to be SF/MARCOs.


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> These are not MARCOs/SF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And these are also not likely to be SF/MARCOs.


You mean that they are from the SSB?? How do you know that?


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> You mean that they are from the SSB?? How do you know that?



Yes I mean S*P*B. I am reliably informed of this. Not to mention the first pic was snapped by Prasun K Segupta who spoke to the group and they identified themselves as SPB. 

+ do you really think that the MARCOs would be deployed, faces uncovered, to protect a warship at its commissioning when this is entirely the SPB's job??!! It would be the first time in history the MARCOs had been utilised in this way and why for a P-17 induction? What was so special about this commissioning that it required MARCOs to pull guard duty?

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## The A-5

Abingdonboy said:


> Yes I mean S*P*B. I am reliably informed of this. Not to mention the first pic was snapped by Prasun K Segupta who spoke to the group and they identified themselves as SPB.
> 
> + do you really think that the MARCOs would be deployed, faces uncovered, to protect a warship at its commissioning when this is entirely the SPB's job??!! It would be the first time in history the MARCOs had been utilised in this way and why for a P-17 induction? What was so special about this commissioning that it required MARCOs to pull guard duty?



Entirely correct. Onboard ship-protection is SPB's job.

I think soon SPB will also be used to protect Indian merchant vessels from pirates on the high seas.

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## Abingdonboy

The A-5 said:


> Entirely correct. Onboard ship-protection is SPB's job.
> 
> I think soon SPB will also be used to protect Indian merchant vessels from pirates on the high seas.



There was recent news of Indian agencies soon being deployed on Indian merchant vessels so it would either be SPB or specially trained CISF IIRC.


+ sir one correction, it will be within the SPB's remit to protect IN vessels as long as they are deployed on Indian soil. When deployed the Ship's own force protection units are in charge of the safety of the ship. The SPB are purely deployed in India and are not embarked on IN ships.

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## Abingdonboy

Some old pics of IAF SF (Garud)

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## The A-5

Abingdonboy said:


>





Abingdonboy said:


>


Great improvement

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## Abingdonboy

The A-5 said:


> Great improvement



Good one!!!!


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## Abingdonboy

NSG 2010/11, of Mumbai Hub:







These guys are really built!

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## cloud_9



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## imperialmen

^lol thats funny

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## mirage2K

what are the standard special forces gear used by Indian SF as compared to other international special forces


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## Abingdonboy

mirage2K said:


> what are the standard special forces gear used by Indian SF as compared to other international special forces



Firstly it depands on what mission the SF operators are planning to do. For instance if they are pllaing to do a HR mission with CQB they will utilise certain equipment they wouldn't take with them for a recconsence mission. Indian SOFs have access to a huge array of gear and weaponry and each and every mission they go on will require the utilisation of different elements of this array of kit. 


By and large Indian SOF's gear is comparable to international/Western SOFs standards. 


The Indian SOFs have come a long way in terms of modernisation of kit in the past 3/4 years and there is an incredibly positive gradient in funding of SOFs in India now. In a few years I have no doubt Indian SOFs will be better equipped than some of their Western counterparts. 

 @mirage2K
If you'd like to give me a few mission profiles I'll tell you what kit Indian SOFs are likely to utilise for that particular mission. The mission profiles and hence kit used by Indian SOFs are so diverse i could be here all night if I tried detailing every little detail and preice of equipment.

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## IndoUS

@Abingdonboy, do you know what type of Bullet proof jacket the SF uses? Are they made in India or bought from foreign vendors?


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## Abingdonboy

IndoUS said:


> @Abingdonboy, do you know what type of Bullet proof jacket the SF uses? Are they made in India or bought from foreign vendors?



I don't know the names but it is a mix. Some are procured from abroad some are procured from India.

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## Koovie

Do Indian military or central police forces use MKU gear?

MKU :: Manufacturers of Defence, Armed Forces and Paramilitary Solutions


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## Dandpatta

The one game changer in SFO or even general combat personnel gear in most western countries is the modular vests. One can easily SNAP various modules onto a vest and get going depending on the scope of the mission. 

For example, a soldier would carry 
- magazines (packed in a, or multiple modular pack(s))
- canteen pack 
- camel/hydration pack
- toolkit pack
- general purpose pouch
- radio/communications pack

all attached on a MODULAR vest on which the above items can be attached and detached (and again attached with more load bearing packs/pouches).

The Modular pack system in my opinion is one of the best systems ever devised and is a far better cry compared to the H type or Y type load bearing units of yesteryears.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't know the names but it is a mix. Some are procured from abroad some are procured from India.



Afaik there are 3 BPJs in use.One is the old one which is very heavy and has 1 bulky metal plate in the front and back.The other one is TATA made and much lighter than the older one.The third one is super light..i have no idea about the make and it has composites.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

This thread is missing some pics from the "Know your Army" mela that took place in Mumbai of which Para Commandos were a part.

Someone please post the pics and they can be found in Indian Army Fans page on FB.

Thanks in advance.


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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



this is from mumbai know your army mela on 15 and 16 dec on the eve of vijay diwas , i was also present there but it was my f@#kng stupidity that all my snaps got shift+deleted .......... so nw i am felling like sh#t after seeing these pics..........ohh my god what a ga$%u i am.

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> this is from mumbai know your army mela on 15 and 16 dec on the eve of vijay diwas , i was also present there but it was my f@#kng stupidity that all my snaps got shift+deleted .......... so nw i am felling like sh#t after seeing these pics..........ohh my god what a ga$%u i am.



How did you mange that lol!!!





Commiserations sir.

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## The A-5

jiki said:


> this is from mumbai know your army mela on 15 and 16 dec on the eve of vijay diwas , i was also present there but it was my f@#kng stupidity that all my snaps got shift+deleted .......... so nw i am felling like sh#t after seeing these pics..........ohh my god what a ga$%u i am.



C'mon dude C'mon.

Let us congratulate Abingdonboy cuz atleast he didn't delete his pics

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## Koovie

Some random pics from various Police commandos/SWAT teams 
Mumbai Police


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## Koovie

Delhi police















Agra Police





Haryana Police













Manipur Police

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## Koovie

J&K Police






Punjab Police










Karnataka Police






Kerala Police


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## Abingdonboy

@Koovie 


Please post these pics here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...emergency-services-police-ambulance-fire.html


This thread is pesky for SPECIAL FORCES is GARUD,MARCOs, PARA (SF) and NSG (even though NSG aren't SF).

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> How did you mange that lol!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Commiserations sir.



yahh i m cursng myself evryde for this f@#$$ng lol!!!  but not an issue i am right nw in the city where these guys had came from army southern comnd HQ pune  n now in evry wkend i will roam arnd the rqurd places in the city and try to provide u guys with some nice pic from army comnd and most probably of SU30s (as pune airport itself in lohegaon) and most impt thing is dat my tickets are already booked for AERO india 13 so wt for sm nice pics of garuds and raffy   

i am doing all this despite having a bloddy f##kng soft eng job so you guys must give credit to me

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> yahh i m cursng myself evryde for this f@#$$ng lol!!!  but not an issue i am right nw in the city where these guys had came from army southern comnd HQ pune  n now in evry wkend i will roam arnd the rqurd places in the city and try to provide u guys with some nice pic from army comnd and most probably of SU30s (as pune airport itself in lohegaon) and most impt thing is dat my tickets are already booked for AERO india 13 so wt for sm nice pics of garuds and raffy
> 
> i am doing all this despite having a bloddy f##kng soft eng job so you guys must give credit to me


Very nice work my freind! Am hoping to catch some of your great work to come!!


+ @jiki sir, if you could- can you please obscure the identities of any SF operator before posting pics of them here? I have spoken to a cousin of mine who is in the IA (not SF) and he has told me that Indian SF blokes get pretty hacked off if they see pics of Indian SF operators without their faces obscured online. Anecdotally I am told this has caused some serious operational issues aka JK CT ops. It is a simple enough job using Photoshop or even Paint! 



Am eagerly awaiting your work mate!!


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## jiki

The A-5 said:


> C'mon dude C'mon.
> 
> Let us congratulate Abingdonboy cuz atleast he didn't delete his pics



hats off to Abingdonboy 

but i have smnthng to discus with u guys as i have got smthng frm this show. May be it is nt the right place but let me put it very briefly i had sm chat with the arty guys who was standing as the instructor near bofors gun and came to know that der is a oil leakage issue with the upgraded 130 mm m46 (to may be 145mm ) and so it's now mainly using for trng in nasik arty school and showcasing in exhibitions , and that folk was also a part of the new home made boforce gun by ofb jabalpur and very much confident abt the result and the initial order from army ( test to successful hoga hi sir aur army ko bhi lena padega ) 

and i had a gr8 chat with normal infantry soilders frm sikh reg. i asked them abt availability of BPjs n NVGs in their batlns and their ans was( hamare pass sabkuch he sir bpjs, bullet prf patkas, NVGs aur ladai ke time jawan ke surakha ke lie sabkuch pahen na padta he par peace time me ham nahi pakad te kuin ki thoda bhari he ) 

and most desire thing i asked them to compare INSAS with their AKs and every sngle body had the same ans INSAS is a very good infantry weapons but dont have the punch pwr to kill an enemy like AKs ( insas bahut badhia weapon he sir , accuracy mast he iski lakin ye duman ko ghayal type kar sakta he lekin ak se ek bar goli chute to dusman ko marna hi he)

and it is cnfrmed dat we have 8 launchers and 64 ATGMs in every infantry batlns

*as i have alrady said dat it's not a news frm any reliable sources, it is my personal investigation and disc with the jawans present at the field duty*

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> Very nice work my freind! Am hoping to catch some of your great work to come!!
> 
> 
> + @jiki sir, if you could- can you please obscure the identities of any SF operator before posting pics of them here? I have spoken to a cousin of mine who is in the IA (not SF) and he has told me that Indian SF blokes get pretty hacked off if they see pics of Indian SF operators without their faces obscured online. Anecdotally I am told this has caused some serious operational issues aka JK CT ops. It is a simple enough job using Photoshop or even Paint!
> 
> 
> 
> Am eagerly awaiting your work mate!!



sure sir i will care 4 it while posting it rather i will ask them to cover up their faces with their head scarf

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## baker

one of the fine thread in PDF 
special thanks to Abingdonboy And COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


i have one query here , i didnt saw any picture or video of our SF HAHO/HALO jump... most of the time we are seeing the static line jump.... if anything found please share here ..thanks

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## winto

WoW,THX, great


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## Abingdonboy

baker said:


> one of the fine thread in PDF
> special thanks to Abingdonboy And COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> 
> i have one query here , i didnt saw any picture or video of our SF HAHO/HALO jump... most of the time we are seeing the static line jump.... if anything found please share here ..thanks


 @baker
Thanks no problem bro.

Sir, just because you don't hear about it or see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen! PARA (SF) (and regular PARA (AIRBORNE) btns) and MARCOs for sure are trained in HAHO/HALO operations and are experts in this regard I am unsure about Garuds but I see no reason why they wouldn't be also.


MARCOs freefall HAHO night jump:








What you see are their glowsticks- How they manage to keep with each other in all 3 dimensions of space whilst falling at speeds in excess of 200 kmph


eg of a freefall jump




 Marine Commandos carrying out Combat Free Fall from Dornier aircraft landing on INS Viraat. 


Watch from 1.11, this vid is purely on PARA (AIRBORNE) and not SF but it gives you an idea of what Indian SFs would be able to do:







At 2.51 they specifically talk about HALO/HAHO ops/training. 



Of course there is much material we can't see but these are the few snippets of info I could gather to present to you.

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## scarcry

SSG SSG Involvement in Soviet Afghan War
During the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the SSG deployed there, disguised as Afghans and provided support to the Mujahideen fighting the Soviets. Author Aukai Collins, in the book My Jihad, gave the Pakistani infiltrators the title "Black Storks".[6] They appear to have engaged the Soviet Airborne Forces in major battles such as the January 1988 Battle for Hill 3234 in which the Russians lost 6 paratroopers, while the Pakistanis suffered over 200 men killed in total. Another battle reported as having been fought between the Pakistanis and Soviet troops, in Kunar Province in March 1986.

The 1995 attack by Pakistan SSG on siachen was significant as it resulted in 40 casualties for Pakistan troops without any changes in the positions.

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## Babbar-Khalsa

Aeronaut said:


> Good stuff , but India needs to put a hell of a lot of efforts to bring its SF's to International Standards or as a Regional force with its counter parts , SSG/Chinese SF and Russians.



These guys have been fighting counterinsurgency since last 20 years . US ,France and special forces of other countries come to India for learning Jungal warfare and counter-insurgency and you say thay have yet to achieve international standard . Get your facts right . If these pics are pinning you down then move to other threads . Dont say that Indian SF are any less than Pakistani or chinese SF.

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## Koovie

Can someone ID this unit?


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## Babbar-Khalsa

jiki said:


> yahh i m cursng myself evryde for this f@#$$ng lol!!!  but not an issue i am right nw in the city where these guys had came from army southern comnd HQ pune  n now in evry wkend i will roam arnd the rqurd places in the city and try to provide u guys with some nice pic from army comnd and most probably of SU30s (as pune airport itself in lohegaon) and most impt thing is dat my tickets are already booked for AERO india 13 so wt for sm nice pics of garuds and raffy
> 
> i am doing all this despite having a bloddy f##kng soft eng job so you guys must give credit to me



Being in software industry ....how did you get the time to do all this stuff ??.....btw 100 % credit given .


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## Abingdonboy

@jiki have you managed to capture and PARA (SF) pics yet?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Can someone ID this unit?



Gurkha rifles..they can kick any SF's azz on their day!(and i mean it)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hi guys..long time..Hope you all are doing good.

I had a chance of watching the Garud documentary once again and those guys have some good equipment.I just hope the INSAS gets replaced soon and most of themn have NVGs.

I started searching about SF stuff in 2006 and back then there was little or no info available..back then our SF were not so well equipped and GARUDs were really like a regular infantry unit.

Its "unbelivable" to see how much more potent the SF units have become now.Thanks to all those who took the decision and 26/11 really acted like a "catalyst".I now feel that we really have a solid base now for launching some serious SF operations anywhere in South Asia.We just need to have a SOCOM with a special budget and the babus need to take the decisions.Theres no point wasting money and sweat if we cannot make our enemy bleed.

Moreover i believe a few units need some changes IMHO like...

The Para Commandos--The regular Para need to be kept like they are and they are doing their job really well of being a airborne infantry unit.The SF in my opinion should be renamed and among them we can have a special unit always ready for operation deep inside enemy territory in P--O--K.another specialised unit can be for China infact more than 1 and the rest can be put up for anti terror ops.

Marine Commandos--i dont know much about them but they are doing their job pretty well in anti piracy operations.So a few units can be kept for piracy..the others should be sent in Kashmir and N-E and among them a special unit should be raised should there be any Maldives type situation again in South Asian.This unit should be specialed and their ops be based out of India.

GARUDS-they need to come out of their primary mission of saving AF bases and for a elite unit for all kinds of mission should the Army and Navy need them.They should be really ready for all kinds of missions.

NSG--Is doing good..very well equipped these days.Needs to reduce its strength and for a elite group.They need to keep not more than 500 specialists for any situation in India..having 10,000 commandos is really asking for too much from the Army.The more the commandos you have the lesser the resources.so keep a select elite group which is very well equipped and yeah...train the local polic to your standard..SWAT and Force India are doing a prety good job.

Special Group--i dont know anything about them but if they are really doing what is told of them them they are doing a good job.

SFF--i dont know what the fck are they upto..no pics..no news except the parachute incident..they are not supposed to be soooooooo secretive afterall.

SOCOM-hire the best in the business from PARA,MARCOS and GARUDS...I have been told that 60% recruitment including the General will be from PARA SF..25% from marcos and 15% from GAruds..if the NSG and SFF are not a part.Anyways its not a very reliable source but whatever they do get the Command operational.We have a solid base to kick some azz in the region.

And i dare say we have the most-skilled,experienced and well equipped operators in the region who can can anybodys azz in the region.

I am open to debates from your side..where you guys think i am wrong and other guys can add more info.

And yeah excuse me if my reply is late..i am a bit busy these days and if i dont reply open a RIP thread lol ........

....Anyways Have a kickazz year..cheers

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## dekho

Does anyone know if IA troops carry any combat/utility knife and of what type/which unit produces them. I googled for pictures but couldn't find any.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

dekho said:


> Does anyone know if IA troops carry any combat/utility knife and of what type/which unit produces them. I googled for pictures but couldn't find any.



Nope..there is no standard knife.

Gurkhas carry Khukhri..Nagas carry their own version and the rest carry the commando knife which is not standard and different patterns can be seen in different units and yeah most soldiers use the INSAS bayonet knife...I have no idea about the SF.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

GARUDS

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## Abingdonboy

Some of my reaction @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Good to hear from you anyways bro! Longtime, no hear! 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I had a chance of watching the Garud documentary once again and those guys have some good equipment.I just hope the INSAS gets replaced soon and most of themn have NVGs.
> 
> I started searching about SF stuff in 2006 and back then there was little or no info available..back then our SF were not so well equipped and GARUDs were really like a regular infantry unit.
> 
> Its "unbelivable" to see how much more potent the SF units have become now.Thanks to all those who took the decision and 26/11 really acted like a "catalyst".I now feel that we really have a solid base now for launching some serious SF operations anywhere in South Asia.We just need to have a SOCOM with a special budget and the babus need to take the decisions.Theres no point wasting money and sweat if we cannot make our enemy bleed.



Agreed, the change in the last 4/5 years is just unreal. I would never have expected such a turnaround in such a short period, especially in a nation like India. I'd also like to add that there seems to have been a mindset change as well amongst the Military and political leadership. All the recent noise coming out of the Military is showing a greater appreciation of SOFs and their utility. When compared to Kargil some 14 years ago when SOFs were used as "super infantry". There seems to be a relasition of what SOFs can actually be used as a strategic asset. I like how the SOF seem to be getting their own space and resources now. 


The future is very positive for Indian SOFs, I can't wait to see what happens in the _next _5 years wrt the SOFs!



> Moreover i believe a few units need some changes IMHO like...
> 
> The Para Commandos--The regular Para need to be kept like they are and they are doing their job really well of being a airborne infantry unit.The SF in my opinion should be renamed and among them we can have a special unit always ready for operation deep inside enemy territory in P--O--K.another specialised unit can be for China infact more than 1 and the rest can be put up for anti terror ops.



Agreed, PARA (SF) and PARA (AIRBORNE) need to be disassociated and the PARA (SF) be molded into a completely separate SF entity. There will always be strong ties between the PARA (AIRBORNE) and PARA (SF) as there is in every modern military between the airborne units and army SF as the latter receives most of their recruits from the former. PARA (AIRBORNE) should be kept as it is but dramatically expanded as the SF element of the PARA regmt outnumbering the PARA(AIRBORNE) btns is a joke. 


However I don't feel there is any need for a seperate and dedicated unit for conducting ops in P--O--K, this is what SG are pretty much for- the less said about them the better though. 



> Marine Commandos--i dont know much about them but they are doing their job pretty well in anti piracy operations.So a few units can be kept for piracy..the others should be sent in Kashmir and N-E and among them a special unit should be raised should there be any Maldives type situation again in South Asian.This unit should be specialed and their ops be based out of India.


I belivwe the MARCOs need to be seriously expanded from the current ~1,000-2,000 operators to at least 4,000. Again, I see no need for separation and specializing within the MARCOs community, they are already all incredibly adaptable, well trained across the board and able to undertake almost any military mission out there in any environment one can imagine. 


Wrt a "Maldives type" situation contingency, this is what the IA's quick reaction units are for namely the 50th (INDEPENDENT) PARACHUTE BRIGADE is for. This unit is deployed near Hindon (near where the IAF's C-130J-30s are based) and regularly train to be ready and with "wheels up" within hours to where ever they may be required. This brigade is made up of personal from 2 PARA (AIRBORNE) btns and 1 PARA (SF) btn. 



> GARUDS-they need to come out of their primary mission of saving AF bases and for a elite unit for all kinds of mission should the Army and Navy need them.They should be really ready for all kinds of missions.


Agreed, but, with respect sir, I belive they are already well able to do almost any mission their navy or Army counterparts are. However I think it is a good idea to have a Garud QRT at the more sensitive IAF locations. 



> NSG--Is doing good..very well equipped these days.Needs to reduce its strength and for a elite group.They need to keep not more than 500 specialists for any situation in India..having 10,000 commandos is really asking for too much from the Army.The more the commandos you have the lesser the resources.so keep a select elite group which is very well equipped and yeah...train the local polic to your standard..SWAT and Force India are doing a prety good job.



Agreed, the NSG needs to be pruned desperately, I have been calling for this for a while. Namely it is the SRG that needs to be trimmed if not abolished/separated entirely. The SAG (the actual "shooters" of the NSG) only number 400-800. The SAG is the only part that has IA soldiers on deputation so the SRG's bloatedness does not negatively effect the IA so much wrt force levels- the SRG recruits almost solely from the CAPFs. 


To be fair it seems the NSG is going about a restructuring and reforming agenda, they have already said they are looking to become a leaner and more agile force in the next 5 years meaning pruning and losing bodies. To this cause the NSG has already pulled off some 900 odd SRG personal from VVIP duties. 


I think we should wait until at least 2015 to see what the NSG of the future will look like, this seems to be the year when their 5 year restructuring and modernization process will come to a end. It will also be interesting to see what new kit they will have by then, by all accounts it will be awesome!

See:

Super Black Cat commandos by 2015, says NSG chief - India - DNA

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/135077-new-age-commandos-high-end-weapons-nsg.html



The shadow of 26/11 has made an impression here too obviously. 
Special Group--i dont know anything about them but if they are really doing what is told of them them they are doing a good job.




> SOCOM-hire the best in the business from PARA,MARCOS and GARUDS...I have been told that 60% recruitment including the General will be from PARA SF..25% from marcos and 15% from GAruds..if the NSG and SFF are not a part.Anyways its not a very reliable source but whatever they do get the Command operational.We have a solid base to kick some azz in the region.



Sir, AFAIK the SOCOM is only a COMMAND structure and not a separate FORCE. Simply put the MARCOs, PARA (SF), GARUDs and an element of the NSG's SAG will separate from their existing command chains and be placed in the SOCOM with a IA SF at its head. The benefit of this is the SOCOM will have its own budget as such it will have its own procurement budget and own procurement procedures, the inter/joint training/interaction between all the Indian SOFs will increase and there will be a standardization of tactics and equipment. Additionally the command structure will be configured to allow SOFs to be more effective and more appropriately applied. Additionally there is certainly scope later down the road for the integration/raising of the Indian SOCOM's own aviation (rotatory and fixed) wings- let's not forget the IAF already has its own fixed wing Spec ops SQD, the IN has their own Spec ops rotatory wing SQD and the IA has plans for the same. 


To see how the Indian SOCOM will function take a look at a working example:

United States Special Operations Command - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> i dare say we have the most-skilled,experienced and well equipped operators in the region who can can anybodys azz in the region.



No doubt in my mind about this!

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## Vasily Zaytsev

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> GARUDS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The left one in this picture ....
> 
> 
> What the hell Roger Federer doing in IAF?
> 
> 
> or is he Ashton Kutcher?
> 
> 
> Confusing?

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## KS

@Abingdonboy

_However I don't feel there is any need for a seperate and dedicated unit for conducting ops in P--O--K, this is what SG are pretty much for- the less said about them the better though_. 

Who are the SG ?


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## Abingdonboy

Vasily Zaytsev said:


> COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:
> 
> 
> 
> GARUDS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The left one in this picture ....
> 
> 
> What the hell Roger Federer doing in IAF?
> 
> 
> or is he Ashton Kutcher?
> 
> 
> Confusing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking the _*exact *_same thing wrt Federer!!!
> 
> 
> 
> KS said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy
> 
> _However I don't feel there is any need for a seperate and dedicated unit for conducting ops in P--O--K, this is what SG are pretty much for- the less said about them the better though_.
> 
> Who are the SG ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SG= Special Group. A Spec Ops unit under the command of RAW but made up of operators from the Indian SOF community. Most of the organisation is made up of PARA (SF) men with MARCOs and Garuds also being present but in a smaller part. The actual training/operations is completely unknown to the outside world, the existence of such a unit is even denied by the GoI. The operators of SG are known to be experts in many languages though. SG is known to operate heavily in JK mostly in covert and undercover roles but naturally they also stray over the border from time to time
> 
> 
> This is as much as I can say mate, I really don't know much more- not many outside the SG/RAW/GoI do!
> 
> 
> @KS
> 
> 
> How do you do mentions now? The "@+name" thing isn't working for me.
Click to expand...

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## The A-5

^^Roger Federer lookalike.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy



> Good to hear from you anyways bro! Longtime, no hear!



Yup..our last chat was month ago.Life is busy and opening a Pakistani website in my profession invites suspicion. 



> Agreed, the change in the last 4/5 years is just unreal. I would never have expected such a turnaround in such a short period, especially in a nation like India. I'd also like to add that there seems to have been a mindset change as well amongst the Military and political leadership. All the recent noise coming out of the Military is showing a greater appreciation of SOFs and their utility. When compared to Kargil some 14 years ago when SOFs were used as "super infantry". There seems to be a relasition of what SOFs can actually be used as a strategic asset. I like how the SOF seem to be getting their own space and resources now.
> 
> 
> The future is very positive for Indian SOFs, I can't wait to see what happens in the next 5 years wrt the SOFs!



Completely agree! 




> Agreed, PARA (SF) and PARA (AIRBORNE) need to be disassociated and the PARA (SF) be molded into a completely separate SF entity. There will always be strong ties between the PARA (AIRBORNE) and PARA (SF) as there is in every modern military between the airborne units and army SF as the latter receives most of their recruits from the former. PARA (AIRBORNE) should be kept as it is but dramatically expanded as the SF element of the PARA regmt outnumbering the PARA(AIRBORNE) btns is a joke.



A/B units and SFs also share that bond because they have to rely on each other for some operations.



> However I don't feel there is any need for a seperate and dedicated unit for conducting ops in P--O--K, this is what SG are pretty much for- the less said about them the better though.



I feel that we need to have special units for P-O-K and N-E region.Kashmir involves a lot of urban warfare whereas N-E is full of jungles.I know these special units have experience and skill to operate anywhere but keeping a unit ready 24/7 will reduce the reaction time.These units can be rotated but the targets should be pre-planned and plans need to be ready in case we have to respond if there is any 26/11 type incident again.



> I believe the MARCOS need to be seriously expanded from the current ~1,000-2,000 operators to at least 4,000. Again, I see no need for separation and specializing within the MARCOS community, they are already all incredibly adaptable, well trained across the board and able to undertake almost any military mission out there in any environment one can imagine.



I would like them to have the current strength as this makes the group having the cream of the crop and moreover its a SF.With respect to your point i would like to see a India version of Marines which should number close to a division of the Army with amphibious assault vehicles and all the support they need.



> Wrt a "Maldives type" situation contingency, this is what the IA's quick reaction units are for namely the 50th (INDEPENDENT) PARACHUTE BRIGADE is for. This unit is deployed near Hindon (near where the IAF's C-130J-30s are based) and regularly train to be ready and with "wheels up" within hours to where ever they may be required. This brigade is made up of personal from 2 PARA (AIRBORNE) btns and 1 PARA (SF) btn.



Oh i missed that...yup you are right we have a special brigade for that.




> Agreed, but, with respect sir, I belive they are already well able to do almost any mission their navy or Army counterparts are. However I think it is a good idea to have a Garud QRT at the more sensitive IAF locations.



Firstly dont call me "sir"...I consider you a friend.

The Garuds dont have a diver unit,a EOD unit and AFAIK the dont even have a demolition unit.So they are not a "complete SF".They are not made for most missions and they are focusing on QRT,Pilot rescue and guiding strikes on enemy radars etc.




> Agreed, the NSG needs to be pruned desperately, I have been calling for this for a while. Namely it is the SRG that needs to be trimmed if not abolished/separated entirely. The SAG (the actual "shooters" of the NSG) only number 400-800. The SAG is the only part that has IA soldiers on deputation so the SRG's bloatedness does not negatively effect the IA so much wrt force levels- the SRG recruits almost solely from the CAPFs.



i think otherwise..A lot of those 400-800 come from Para and Para is short of officers and as a result the fewer officers have to do the job of what is sanctioned.Anyways email me if you wanna know about this...I dont want RAW to raid my house lol 


Secondly,i feel NSG should come under the Army command...IPS offciers dont have in them to lead a "Special Unit"...not having a SF General as their leader is a bloody joke and they should come under the Army.



> Sir, AFAIK the SOCOM is only a COMMAND structure and not a separate FORCE. Simply put the MARCOs, PARA (SF), GARUDs and an element of the NSG's SAG will separate from their existing command chains and be placed in the SOCOM with a IA SF at its head. The benefit of this is the SOCOM will have its own budget as such it will have its own procurement budget and own procurement procedures, the inter/joint training/interaction between all the Indian SOFs will increase and there will be a standardization of tactics and equipment. Additionally the command structure will be configured to allow SOFs to be more effective and more appropriately applied. Additionally there is certainly scope later down the road for the integration/raising of the Indian SOCOM's own aviation (rotatory and fixed) wings- let's not forget the IAF already has its own fixed wing Spec ops SQD, the IN has their own Spec ops rotatory wing SQD and the IA has plans for the same.



I was told it will be a special force consisting of operators on deputation...time will tell...lets wait and watch.

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## KS

Abingdonboy said:


> SG= Special Group. A Spec Ops unit under the command of RAW but made up of operators from the Indian SOF community. Most of the organisation is made up of PARA (SF) men with MARCOs and Garuds also being present but in a smaller part. The actual training/operations is completely unknown to the outside world, the existence of such a unit is even denied by the GoI. The operators of SG are known to be experts in many languages though. SG is known to operate heavily in JK mostly in covert and undercover roles but naturally they also stray over the border from time to time
> 
> 
> This is as much as I can say mate, I really don't know much more- not many outside the SG/RAW/GoI do!
> 
> 
> @KS
> 
> 
> How do you do mentions now? The "@+name" thing isn't working for me.



Thanks a lot...

No idea dude..its upto the forum-powers-that-be...I just add @+name..

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## Abingdonboy

Take with a pinch of salt:

Special Operations: India And The Secret SOCOM Deal

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## d14gtc

Abingdonboy said:


> Vasily Zaytsev said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking the _*exact *_same thing wrt Federer!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SG= Special Group. A Spec Ops unit under the command of RAW but made up of operators from the Indian SOF community. Most of the organisation is made up of PARA (SF) men with MARCOs and Garuds also being present but in a smaller part. The actual training/operations is completely unknown to the outside world, the existence of such a unit is even denied by the GoI. The operators of SG are known to be experts in many languages though. SG is known to operate heavily in JK mostly in covert and undercover roles but naturally they also stray over the border from time to time
> 
> 
> This is as much as I can say mate, I really don't know much more- not many outside the SG/RAW/GoI do!
> 
> 
> @KS
> 
> 
> How do you do mentions now? The "@+name" thing isn't working for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---- SG doesnt either belong to any PARA / Garud or Marcos btlns. As earlier said by the writer that He doesnt knw much about SFF ops , i would like to let know dat SG is a part of SFF.... and further about SFF capabilities i just would like to add here that SFF is none less dan any Damn SF In & Around,rather they are purely head hunters with a skill combined with Jungle/Airborne and underwater capabilities and goes through one of the hardest and toughest of the Training manual..... they are no secrets now but yeah who they are ll remain
> 
> Thez words are said only coz i know em persnly ---- >>>>
Click to expand...

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## Abingdonboy

d14gtc said:


> Abingdonboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ---- SG doesnt either belong to any PARA / Garud or Marcos btlns. As earlier said by the writer that He doesnt knw much about SFF ops , i would like to let know dat SG is a part of SFF.... and further about SFF capabilities i just would like to add here that SFF is none less dan any Damn SF In & Around,rather they are purely head hunters with a skill combined with Jungle/Airborne and underwater capabilities and goes through one of the hardest and toughest of the Training manual..... they are no secrets now but yeah who they are ll remain
> 
> Thez words are said only coz i know em persnly ---- >>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFF is one thing but the SG is slightly different sir, yes the SG technically comes under SFF and likewise is directly commanded by RAW/PMO the SG is drawn almost solely from the SOFs of the IA, IAF and (to a lesser extent) IAF and comprises very little SFF personal (ie Tibetans).
Click to expand...


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## DevilDog

Well, didn't know how good sofs u ve. The best SOF Unit in the south asia. No matter which side you're from, just keep on kicking dirty *****. Three questions:
1- can anybody give me the equipment list of Indian special forces?
2- i need info about indian navy's special forces. I mean do you have sth similar to our F.A.S.Ts or SEALs?
3- how long does it takes to become an SOF operator in india?

Btw. Indian food is absolutely AWESOME! It definetly fits with my type of understanding in spicy foods


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## Koovie

DevilDog said:


> Well, didn't know how good sofs u ve. The best SOF Unit in the south asia. No matter which side you're from, just keep on kicking dirty *****. Three questions:
> 1- can anybody give me the equipment list of Indian special forces?
> 2- i need info about indian navy's special forces. I mean do you have sth similar to our F.A.S.Ts or SEALs?
> 3- how long does it takes to become an SOF operator in india?
> 
> Btw. Indian food is absolutely AWESOME! It definetly fits with my type of understanding in spicy foods



1. Even in India, SOFs dont give detailed information about their equipment. 

This is a listfrom wiki, but most of it seems to be correct, although some infos are mere speculation or based on very few news reports.
Special Forces of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. Marcos= Marine Commandos are similar to the SEALs. AFAIK, the first MARCOS instructors were trained by SEALs in the 80s.
3. Depending on the unit, 2-3 years of training.


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## DevilDog

thanks man

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## Abingdonboy

DevilDog said:


> Well, didn't know how good sofs u ve. The best SOF Unit in the south asia. No matter which side you're from, just keep on kicking dirty *****. Three questions:
> 1- can anybody give me the equipment list of Indian special forces?
> 2- i need info about indian navy's special forces. I mean do you have sth similar to our F.A.S.Ts or SEALs?
> 3- how long does it takes to become an SOF operator in india?
> 
> Btw. Indian food is absolutely AWESOME! It definetly fits with my type of understanding in spicy foods



1- @arp2041 already covered this, the list would be too long to draw up and also near impossible because Indian SOFs are incredibly secretive.
2- IN's MARCOs are the SOF comparable to SEALS. In fact the first batch of MARCOs were sent to US to be trained by the SEALs and the intial MARCOs training/selection was derived from SEAL training/selection. Since then the MARCOs have fine tuned and customised the training and selection process to suit their needs- it is said to have gotten harder than the intial '87 training! There is something like 85-95% fail rate of candidates for MARCOs. 

Do some reading on them mate, I'm sure you'll be impressed.

3- Hard to say it varies the average is ~3 years for India SOFs and then 1 year of probation once you are fully qualified. The reason it is so long is because the training for all Indian SOFs is very broad and they are trained to operate in any enviroment (jungle,urban,mountain,desert) and perform pretty much any mission you can think of.


Check out a couple of my vids:

IN MARCOs:







Indian SOFs as a whole:







Some reading:
Special Forces of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Para Commandos (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Garud Commando Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DevilDog

Thx. I saw thousands of "vs" conflicts in here between You and Pakistanis. Now i'm pretty sure that India goes all the ways   :indianflag:


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## Kompromat

DevilDog said:


> Thx. I saw thousands of "vs" conflicts in here between You and Pakistanis. Now i'm pretty sure that India goes all the ways   :indianflag:



You farangis always want to see conflict dont you!


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## DevilDog

Aeronaut said:


> You farangis always want to see conflict dont you!



that's why we are marines  in fact weren't these "conflicts" save us from the crisis! lol . Joke aside your SSG is as good as theirs. But the problem is the equipment. I mean your defence budget is too low for a country like pakistan. Correct me if i'm wrong your budget is completly up to your air force. poor naviers and SSG guys. Please get my point. and for the writer who wrote the "rape"post: Even in the most damned country's soldiers, they protect their people, they don't defend any kinda crimes like the one you sad. Yes it was a sad event but I'm pretty sure that indian army and law enforcements will show no mercy for the penetrators.

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## Koovie

Older pic, probably MARCOs


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## farabi

Wow! This is really nice collection of Indian Special Force....

Thanks
Farabi

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Older pic, probably MARCOs



Could be regular IN divers.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Isn't this pic from the drowning incident in a lake in Northern India?

Anyways I am not an expert on Marcos but the T-Shirt the guy is wearing is of Marcos...reason being the frog made on his back.The frog made on his back is also made on the walls of Marcos Kashmir base.

The other guy with a beard looks 100% Marco.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Isn't this pic from the drowning incident in a lake in Northern India?
> 
> Anyways I am not an expert on Marcos but the T-Shirt the guy is wearing is of Marcos...reason being the frog made on his back.The frog made on his back is also made on the walls of Marcos Kashmir base.
> 
> The other guy with a beard looks 100% Marco.



I was thinking that:







But AFAIK the Navy has less restrictions on beards/grooming standards as compared to the IA/IAF. So beard+navy doesn't necessarily = MARCOs.


And what is this drowning incident you speak of mate?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I was thinking that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But AFAIK the Navy has less restrictions on beards/grooming standards as compared to the IA/IAF. So beard+navy doesn't necessarily = MARCOs.
> 
> 
> And what is this drowning incident you speak of mate?



This pic has been taken from a local newspaper which reported that a guy got drowned in a lake near Chandigarh and Naval Divers were called...if my memory is not betraying me 

I was not pointing at the beard but to the physique and the way of dressing.There is a rule I imply when trying to recognize soldiers from the crowd and that us to focus on the dressing and not the looks.I am no Sherlock Homes but this method has been quite successful for me.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This pic has been taken from a local newspaper which reported that a guy got drowned in a lake near Chandigarh and Naval Divers were called...if my memory is not betraying me
> 
> I was not pointing at the beards but to the physique and the way of dressing.There is a rule I imply when trying to recognize soldiers from the crowd and that us to focus on the dressing and not the looks.I am no Sherlock Homes but this method has been quite successful for me.


To be fair wrt physique and dress it would be hard to distinguish regular IN divers and MARCOs:

regular divers:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

This is a doubtful pic for me...my guess is that either they are Marcos or ex macros.Marcos are said to be closely associated with diving jobs in the navy.Why would a guy having such a physique not wanna be a Marco when he is working for the Navy and that too as a diver.Moreover Marcos have some of the best body builders in the entire Indian SF.

Like for example the hat they are wearing is a Army hat for only some units in the Army with IA camo being used...how the heck did they manage to get their hand on one as they would have never been to Kashmir right?..since they are not Marcos?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is a doubtful pic for me...my guess is that either they are Marcos or ex macros.Marcos are said to be closely associated with diving jobs in the navy.Why would a guy having such a physique not wanna be a Marco when he is working for the Navy and that too as a diver.Moreover Marcos have some of the best body builders in the entire Indian SF.
> 
> Like for example the hat they are wearing is a Army hat for only some units in the Army with IA camo being used...how the heck did they manage to get their hand on one as they would have never been to Kashmir right?..since they are not Marcos?


Sir these _are _regular IN divers! These pics are from ex SALVEX with USN and IN divers (not SFs)



> _Indian Navy Statement (edited): Indian and US Navy divers will tomorrow commence exercises in a joint salvage exercise off Port Blair in the Andaman Sea. The salvage exercises (SALVEX) from Jan 5-12, involves Indian Navy diving tender INS Nireekshak and USS Safeguard, a specialised salvage ship of the US Navy.
> 
> The aim of the exercise is to strengthen capability in niche techniques associated with diving and salvage. In the course of the seven day exercise various specialist salvage techniques will be practiced jointly* by IN and USN divers*
> *
> In this edition of SALVEX, the Indian Navy's team comprises 17 Clearance Divers including two officers and the US Navy's team comprises 15 divers including two officers*._,




Livefist: Indo-US Joint Navy Diver Exercise Starts Tomorrow

I know what you're saying sir, but in this case these guys are just divers! You should be happy that such built guys are present not just in the SFs!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Mate,you are not getting my point.

I also follow defence news and I know it was reported that they are regular IN divers but my point is what makes you think so that they are not ex Marcos?

As far as I know Marcos return to earlier trade after they quit MCF.

When seeing pics I try not to go by what is being reported but to judge from their uniform.How can regular IN personnel get those hats when the regular IN personnel are not allowed to wear camo?

From what I know Navy doesn't have this camo in use and we have a highly disciplined force so it's not such that regulars can go to a Army Cantt and buy hats and wear it for work.

May I also remind you that the same hat with Indian flag was worn by a Para SF officer in Indo-US exercise in Rajasthan.

I hope you are getting my point here as I am trying to show you something which is based on my knowledge of how things work and I might be wrong too but I am not adamant on proving.

The reason for me doing this is also because of the lack of trust I have on the media reporting and their level of knowledge.Like for example in the exercise with Maldives it was reported that only Madras regtt took part whereas the truth is that 8-10 guys of regular Para battalion took part..how can I say that??..well the guy in one pic has a place for a tab just below his epaulette and in the IA only 3 units are allowed that...The Guards(mech inf) RR and Para..that is it.Secondly look at the VZs..infantry battalions don't have VZ only the RR and Para has it.

So I have lost trust on these guys mate..I rely on my judgement and in the end everyone can make a guess by carefully observing and don't follow blindly what the media/press reports.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## The A-5

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>



^^1st pic

optical illusion. it looks as if he's holding on to the wheel.

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## Koovie



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## kurup

*NSG Commandos* ..........complete makeover

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## Water Car Engineer

kurup said:


> *NSG Commandos* ..........complete makeover




They really are getting a make over...

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## kurup

Water Car Engineer said:


> They really are getting a make over...



Yep ........ Looks like 26/11 have finally awaken them .

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Ok..so I loose the bet...you won! 

You had rightly said that by 2015 NSG would be among the best equipped Intervention units..I am surprised at the way the Indian Govt is investing so much into SF/intervention units.

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> *NSG Commandos* ..........complete makeover


 @kurup where were these pics snapped? 

+ guy on the left looks like SPG.

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## KS

-------------


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Ok..so I loose the bet...you won!
> 
> You had rightly said that by 2015 NSG would be among the best equipped Intervention units..I am surprised at the way the Indian Govt is investing so much into SF/intervention units.



Lol. I'm blown away by these pics but I'm still waiting till 2015 to see what the NSG's 2015 vision is- there is meant to be a future soldier capability with personal computers and the like. Yep- GoI has woken up, better late than never! 


Made my day these pics have!



KS said:


> The Sardar is a MARCOS right ?



Nope- NSG, look at his badges.


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## KS

Abingdonboy said:


> Nope- NSG, look at his badges.



haha yeah.. early morning drowsiness..

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

KS said:


> The Sardar is a MARCOS right ?



No Sir he is their team leader..pretty handsome guy I must say.

@ Abingdonboy 

Care to share with us what more is in the pipeline for NSG operators till 2015.

@ Kurup

Thanks a lot..made my day!

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No Sir he is their team leader..pretty handsome guy I must say.
> 
> Abingdonboy
> 
> Care to share with us what more is in the pipeline for NSG operators till 2015.
> 
> Kurup
> 
> Thanks a lot..made my day!


See for yourself buddy:

Super Black Cat commandos by 2015, says NSG chief - India - DNA

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG already had their training up to the mark and they train with the best in the world like GSG 9 which hardly gets covered by the press/media but it's good to see that they are getting the right equipments too.Hope to be more surprised by their modernization in future.

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## Koovie

*Here is a close up picture, but I cant post it because of copyrights. 

Here is the link, simply awesome!*

Indian para-military commando | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

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## Water Car Engineer

Koovie said:


> *Here is a close up picture, but I cant post it because of copyrights.
> 
> Here is the link, simply awesome!*
> 
> Indian para-military commando | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

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## Water Car Engineer

It would make my day seeing them armed with the MSMC.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> It would make my day seeing them armed with the MSMC.



Are you talking about NSG...well then it would be difficult to replace MP5 as it is a very accurate weapon in close range and moreover NSG has inducted SIGs and cornershots.

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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Are you talking about NSG...well then it would be difficult to replace MP5 as it is a very accurate weapon in close range and moreover NSG has inducted SIGs and cornershots.



Yes, any of the SFs, etc that need an SMG really. If the MSMC is up to par they should replace the foreign imported ones.


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## rockstarIN

Water Car Engineer said:


>



isn't it MP-7?
 @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, dont you think MP-5s are ineffective provided the enemy got enough body Armour even in close combats?

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## rockstarIN

Like these, since MP-5 fires 9mm?


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## Abingdonboy

rockstar said:


> isn't it MP-7?
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, dont you think MP-5s are ineffective provided the enemy got enough body Armour even in close combats?


This is the MP-5K


+ the NSG operate the SIG-552 (5.56mm) rifle wherin 1-2 men in an assualt team will be equipped with such an AR not to mention atleast 1 with an automatic shotgun for breaching.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstar said:


> isn't it MP-7?
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, dont you think MP-5s are ineffective provided the enemy got enough body Armour even in close combats?


Sir,in close quarter combat even 9mm is effective but you are right with armor it won't be as effective but a higher round can also be dangerous as the bullet might penetrate the body and hit the hostage.


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## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


> @kurup where were these pics snapped?
> 
> + guy on the left looks like SPG.



No idea friend ......... Got the pics from BR .

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## bangbros

Water Car Engineer said:


>



dude this guy has all weapons including the best weapon a pen

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


>


This is said to have been taken outside Parliament in Delhi- do NSG guard Parliament? And this would make this guy SRG!

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## Night_Raven




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## Abingdonboy

Night_Raven said:


>



Old pics mate!


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> OT: Did not get a larger pic


Where'd you get this pic mate?


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## baker

Water Car Engineer said:


> It would make my day seeing them armed with the MSMC.



sorry for going OT , in this pic 2 soldiers have completely different weapon holding position .... any + and -ves for these 2 positions...
 @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


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## Abingdonboy

baker said:


> sorry for going OT , in this pic 2 soldiers have completely different weapon holding position .... any + and -ves for these 2 positions...
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


Guy standing up (shooting from the hip) is not aiming so naturally accuracy is non-exisitent. Guy crouching is looking through the sights and adopting the correct stance- accuracy will be there. Just a photo-op though so can't read too much into it.

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## baker

Abingdonboy said:


> Guy standing up (shooting from the hip) is not aiming so naturally accuracy is non-exisitent. Guy crouching is looking through the sights and adopting the correct stance- accuracy will be there. Just a photo-op though so can't read too much into it.



my point was.... if you see some footage of our training exercise or CI ops , the first position will be common in our soldiers.... but the second position will be 99% in western armies.....


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## Abingdonboy

baker said:


> my point was.... if you see some footage of our training exercise or CI ops , the first position will be common in our soldiers.... but the second position will be 99% in western armies.....



Things are changing wrt training mate. The second stance is becoming the standard the IA is being taught. Watch NDTV's most recent military doc on the IA Officer "COMMANDO" school- see what is being taught.


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Where'd you get this pic mate?




Searched for republic day 2013 rehearsal in google images (for the past week), but the website itself did not work and was offline.



Water Car Engineer said:


> It would make my day seeing them armed with the MSMC.



Bayonets on a SMG???

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Bayonets on a SMG???


Indian forces must have bayonets on everything!!

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Indian forces must have bayonets on everything!!



^^yes, CRPF Cobras even use bayonets on X95s to charge naxals


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> ^^yes, CRPF Cobras even use bayonets on X95s to charge naxals



Well this is what they do for show. I don't imagine this has happened in real life combat to date!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

baker said:


> sorry for going OT , in this pic 2 soldiers have completely different weapon holding position .... any + and -ves for these 2 positions...
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


Dude let me tell you the whole story then.

The RR earlyon comprised of only infantrymen and they got special reports for promotion but the other guys complained against this and seeked permission from the chief to be a part of RR.

The guys from Armoured and other branches uses to take position like this and get injured since this was not their skill..so special schools were setup so a soldier was properly trained before sending to combat.

Now even our armored and artillery guys can take better position that this.

This was unnecessary but then this is the Indian Army and a soldier is a skilled combatant so the driver of a MBT can turn out to be a guy who has spent 3 yrs in Kashmir and kick any enemy Infantry units azz even If his tank has been knocked out.

This is what I like about the Indian Army.

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## Abingdonboy

@Koovie a larger version:

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## Abingdonboy

Snipers

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> @Koovie a larger version:



Wow they simply look badass! Its like a 120% overall change from what we had to see during 26/11.



Abingdonboy said:


> Snipers


From 2013?

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Wow they simply look badass! Its like a 120% overall change from what we had to see during 26/11.
> 
> 
> From 2013?


Yeah- I too was unsure. Could easily be from 2011/12.

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## scarcry

kurup said:


> *NSG Commandos* ..........complete makeover



When I stated seeing NSG in 2008 I was shocked by this Google Image Result for http://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621x414/LiveMint/Period1/2008/11/29/Photos/e55bfe95-f97d-4107-ad93-b8c72636154a.jpg

THE COMMON MAN'S SECURITY GUARD HAS COME OF AGE

Check out 
http://www.google.co.in/imgres?q=ns...=99&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0,i:133

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## Koovie

scarcry said:


> When I stated seeing NSG in 2008 I was shocked by this Google Image Result for http://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621x414/LiveMint/Period1/2008/11/29/Photos/e55bfe95-f97d-4107-ad93-b8c72636154a.jpg
> 
> THE COMMON MAN'S SECURITY GUARD HAS COME OF AGE
> 
> Check out
> Google Image Result for http://media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories//issue230309/090710013807_gunman.jpg





Yes, 26/11 was a wake up call. Even state police forces have comparable units on their own now. Lets hope these guys wont be wasted for VIP security.


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## Abingdonboy

scarcry said:


> When I stated seeing NSG in 2008 I was shocked by this Google Image Result for http://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621x414/LiveMint/Period1/2008/11/29/Photos/e55bfe95-f97d-4107-ad93-b8c72636154a.jpg
> 
> THE COMMON MAN'S SECURITY GUARD HAS COME OF AGE
> 
> Check out
> Google Image Result for http://media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories//issue230309/090710013807_gunman.jpg



Excellent point. All the issues identified post-26/11 very much seem to have been addressed. It's a happy day to know that the NSG (protectors of the general people) are as well armed as the SPG and the like. This has often been a criticism in the past ie the SPG were very well equipped whilst the NSG were using antiquated equipment.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Excellent point. All the issues identified post-26/11 very much seem to have been addressed. It's a happy day to know that the NSG (protectors of the general people) are as well armed as the SPG and the like. This has often been a criticism in the past ie the SPG were very well equipped whilst the NSG were using antiquated equipment.


Yes,
Finally NSG (protectors of us normal people) are on the level of the SPG (protectors of VVIPs)
SPG





NSG

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## Water Car Engineer

Koovie said:


> Yes,
> Finally NSG (protectors of us normal people) are on the level of the SPG (protectors of VVIPs)
> SPG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG



Lets look for consistency in the equipment in future pictures however.


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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Lets look for consistency in the equipment in future pictures however.



Consistency in equipment with NSG and SPG? You want the NSG and SPG to be be equipped exactly the same?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Consistency in equipment with NSG and SPG? You want the NSG and SPG to be be equipped exactly the same?



Im talking about the consistency of the new equipment for the NSG forces. Who cares about SPG really.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Im talking about the consistency of the new equipment for the NSG forces. Who cares about SPG really.



To be fair the SPG are essential and are there to protect those who genuinely deserve it is the PM and their families. You cas of say these people are not deserving of the best possible protection India can afford.

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## Abingdonboy

NSG commandos trained in sub-zero temperatures

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## Abingdonboy

Elite German police wing to train NSG - Indian Express Mobile


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## Abingdonboy

NSG says media got in the way, wants guidelines - Indian Express Mobile


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## Bang Galore

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG says media got in the way, wants guidelines - Indian Express Mobile



*Duh.*... but the NSG has to take part of the blame. The publicity hungry then chief of the NSG was the one continuously briefing the media even while operations were going on_ (later on -after retirement, claiming on television channels that he was suffering from post-traumatic stress-???)_, people were allowed to interview the commandos....very bad handling. Add to that, some idiot high up the Naval command decided that the Marcos should give interviews when they had achieved nothing during their operation_(not that they should give when they do achieve something but it was clearly a stupid move)_ Journalists did a lot of damage but they were allowed to do that by an incompetent system. Even if there was initially some confusion, by day 2 that should have been all under control. It was a joke near the Taj with journalists pretending that they were in a war, all lying prone...the cordon kept changing and the media was allowed way too close. Stupid, stupid handling!

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## Abingdonboy

Bang Galore said:


> *Duh.*... but the NSG has to take part of the blame. The publicity hungry then chief of the NSG was the one continuously briefing the media even while operations were going on_ (later on -after retirement, claiming on television channels that he was suffering from post-traumatic stress-???)_, people were allowed to interview the commandos....very bad handling. Add to that, some idiot high up the Naval command decided that the Marcos should give interviews when they had achieved nothing during their operation_(not that they should give when they do achieve something but it was clearly a stupid move)_ Journalists did a lot of damage but they were allowed to do that by an incompetent system. Even if there was initially some confusion, by day 2 that should have been all under control. It was a joke near the Taj with journalists pretending that they were in a war, all lying prone...the cordon kept changing and the media was allowed way too close. Stupid, stupid handling!



Indeed. Anyone other than police and security forces needed to be kept KMs away not literally within shooting distance. I hope the appropriate lessons have been learnt. It is a fricking tragedy that there is even the slightest possiblity that a NSG operator might have been killed because the terrorists knew they were beginning the assut as their handlers could see it on Tv! All sides had a part to play. 

Wrt the MARCOs this decision was made in MoD can't blame the IN or MARCOs. And to be fair the MARCOs did effectively pin down te scumbags and their EOD unit did defuse some devices at the Taj. But considering the number of MARCOs deployed never exceeded 20 their utility was limited to say the least when split up in 3+ locations.


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## Bang Galore

Abingdonboy said:


> Wrt the MARCOs this decision was made in MoD can't blame the IN or MARCOs. And to be fair the MARCOs did effectively pin down te scumbags and their EOD unit did defuse some devices at the Taj. But considering the number of MARCOs deployed never exceeded 20 their utility was limited to say the least when split up in 3+ locations.



That I don't quibble about. I'm sure they did well within limitations but I was aghast at the cavalier manner in which they were made to give interviews and that too when the operation was still ongoing_(even if by the NSG)._. Uncontrolled_ (key being uncontrolled)_ publicity and elite units simply don't mix.

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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> To be fair the SPG are essential and are there to protect those who genuinely deserve it is the PM and their families. *You cas of say these people are not deserving of the best possible protection India can afford.*



What are you talking about??


----------



## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> What are you talking about??



I'm saying that just like the USSS don't cut corners when protecting POTUS- the Indian establishment must give whatever support and resources to the SPG so they can do their job as well as possible. India cannot be losing PMs to assassinations. The PM of India should be the most protected person in India if not then india is some banana republic that can't Protect even those at the top.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm saying that just like the USSS don't cut corners when protecting POTUS- the Indian establishment must give whatever support and resources to the SPG so they can do their job as well as possible. India cannot be losing PMs to assassinations. The PM of India should be the malt protected person in India if not then india is some banana republic that can't Protect even those at the top.



I dont care about the SPG. They're small in numbers and their duty is to protect the politicians. So by _default _they'll be trained and better equipped. 


I much rather see the group that always been under equipped be better armed and trained consistently. And the focus should be on them, not a small groups that's aways have been better equipped from the get go.


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## scarcry

Water Car Engineer said:


> They really are getting a make over...



The first guy appears in the nsg video by ndtv when that corny "you don't know the secret is heard"


----------



## Koovie



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## Abingdonboy

NSG Sniper:

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## cloud_9



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## Koovie

cloud_9 said:


>



Not SF

Women in SPG? THats something new to me

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## kurup

Koovie said:


> Not SF
> 
> *Women in SPG*? THats something new to me



I was also wondering the same ...


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## cloud_9

Koovie said:


> Not SF


If NSG are termed as SF's then whats wrong with SPG ???


----------



## Koovie

cloud_9 said:


> If NSG are termed as SF's then whats wrong with SPG ???




SPG are simply bodyguards nothing else.


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## whitefox011

cloud_9 said:


>



i always wonder whats in the briefcase carried by presidents bodyguards SEE THE FIRST PIC LEFT SIDE nuclear launch codes??


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## Capt.Popeye

whitefox011 said:


> i always wonder whats in the briefcase carried by presidents bodyguards SEE THE FIRST PIC LEFT SIDE nuclear launch codes??



The guy with the briefcase is/was always within a few feet of the PM.
What is in the briefcase?
Maybe the PM's packed lunch cooked by his wife and the medicines that he has to take after every meal!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

whitefox011 said:


> i always wonder whats in the briefcase carried by presidents bodyguards SEE THE FIRST PIC LEFT SIDE nuclear launch codes??


Have you seen compact firearms which are carried in suitcase..google it.Sorry for the trouble if I wasn't on my mobile I would have posted the data.


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## imperialmen

The briefcase contains nuclear launch codes. Even America and Russia have it.

Nuclear briefcase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## whitefox011

its very unlikely they carry arms in it my bet is on nuclear launch codes  but looks like no one can be sure whats in them


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## Capt.Popeye

whitefox011 said:


> its very unlikely they carry arms in it my bet is on nuclear launch codes  but looks like no one can be sure whats in them



Why don't we ask Mrs. Manmohan Singh? Maybe she packs it for him every time he goes out?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Yeah right...we have nuclear briefcase when we have no first use policy..that's cool!

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## Koovie

imperialmen said:


> The briefcase contains nuclear launch codes. Even America and Russia have it.
> 
> Nuclear briefcase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Thats not true.


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## whitefox011

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeah right...we have nuclear briefcase when we have no first use policy..that's cool!



okay so manmohan singh's lunch box seems the most probable thing


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## Koovie

whitefox011 said:


> okay so manmohan singh's lunch box seems the most probable thing



Might be just a armor plate for protection.


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Not SF
> 
> Women in SPG? THats something new to me





kurup said:


> I was also wondering the same ...


Women have been in SPG for some time. Look back to last year's R-Day celebrations and before.



cloud_9 said:


> If NSG are termed as SF's then whats wrong with SPG ???




NSG aren't technically SF either, just it is easier to post pics of NSG on this thread than creating a seperate thread. I suppose it is okay to post SPG as well even though neither are,technically, SOFs!



whitefox011 said:


> i always wonder whats in the briefcase carried by presidents bodyguards SEE THE FIRST PIC LEFT SIDE nuclear launch codes??





Capt.Popeye said:


> The guy with the briefcase is/was always within a few feet of the PM.
> What is in the briefcase?
> Maybe the PM's packed lunch cooked by his wife and the medicines that he has to take after every meal!





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Have you seen compact firearms which are carried in suitcase..google it.Sorry for the trouble if I wasn't on my mobile I would have posted the data.





imperialmen said:


> The briefcase contains nuclear launch codes. Even America and Russia have it.
> 
> Nuclear briefcase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





whitefox011 said:


> its very unlikely they carry arms in it my bet is on nuclear launch codes  but looks like no one can be sure whats in them





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeah right...we have nuclear briefcase when we have no first use policy..that's cool!


 @Koovie is right- the suitcase contains armour protection, a Kevlar blanket that can be thrown over the PM in case of attack. The Pres of France has similar cover. Wrt nuke codes/launch system I don't know how this works in India wrt the "no-first use policy" but I doubt there is somethign comparable to the nuke briefcase in India. 



Btw _this _is the nuclear briefcase (for POTUS)- notice how large it is and also that is isn't 1 briefcase but 2 very cumbersome looking things!

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## Capt.Popeye

@Abingdonboy,
There also seems to be a comms unit in there- likely a SatPhone. And it could also contain Gursharan Kaur ji's delectable parathas.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

whitefox011 said:


> i always wonder whats in the briefcase carried by presidents bodyguards SEE THE FIRST PIC LEFT SIDE nuclear launch codes??




Jammers (dont know abt india)........ even our COAS has his SSG bodyguards carrying one.


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## Capt.Popeye

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Jammers (dont know abt india)........ even our COAS has his SSG bodyguards carrying one.



The jammers are in the vehicles that form part of the convoy. Same incase of Kiyani's motorcade. More than one jammer equipped vehicle is used.


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## Abingdonboy

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Jammers (dont know abt india)........ even our COAS has his SSG bodyguards carrying one.


No not jammers. I don't know what happens in Pakistan but going by the size of that breifcase the effective jamming range of any system contained within it would be <1m! Like I said the case contains a Kevlar blanket. Wrt Jammers there are static jammers that are put inplace by the SPG in any location the PM will be visiting and then there are mobile jammers (based on a TATA Safari) that is part of the PM's motorcade.



Capt.Popeye said:


> @Abingdonboy,
> There also seems to be a comms unit in there- likely a SatPhone. And it could also contain Gursharan Kaur ji's delectable parathas.



Perhaps there is a SatPhone- I don't know.

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> Perhaps there is a SatPhone- I don't know.



Now what about the Parathas?


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## Abingdonboy

Capt.Popeye said:


> Now what about the Parathas?



I'm gonna say it is unlikely- I'd suspect that the PM has a big breakfast on days like this. That's not to say that in the 7 Series their isn't a couple of bottles of Lassi in the fridge!


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## scarcry

Google Image Result for http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg15/hk_mp5k2_cased.jpg

Is this actually!


----------



## Abingdonboy

scarcry said:


> Google Image Result for http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg15/hk_mp5k2_cased.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Is this actually!




Nope! What would be the point in having a concealed MP5-K when there are at least 3 SPG guys in the PM's close protection team armed with P-90s out in the open??

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## whitefox011

i read somewhere that indian pm wear bullet proof kurta pajama so whats the use kevlar blanket ??Designer bullet-proof kurtas for netas - Hindustan Times


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Nope! What would be the point in having a concealed MP5-K when there are at least 3 SPG guys in the PM's close protection team armed with P-90s out in the open??



Yup..you have the most logical guess.

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## scarcry

Light weight and easy to use

BTW hi vibhu


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## whitefox011

hi macchi


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## Abingdonboy

NSG sniper:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Yeti

lol all black and armour plated true gangster style that is

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## scarcry

whitefox011 said:


> hi macchi



Abe o kullu kaisa hai! How's it goin!  nsg ki equipment dekh


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## Abingdonboy

Don't know if he is PARA (SF) or PARA (Airborne):

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## Abingdonboy

PM's convoy in 2011:

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## KS

edit...Some one said it already !


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## Abingdonboy



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## Koovie

Garuds still use WW2 era smgs?!?!


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## mirage2K

Koovie said:


> Garuds still use WW2 era smgs?!?!


Going to be replaced soon..when MSMC is inducted


----------



## S-DUCT

mirage2K said:


> Going to be replaced soon..when MSMC is inducted



Any news on user trials of MSMC,thanks


----------



## Koovie

mirage2K said:


> Going to be replaced soon..when MSMC is inducted



That might take years, why dont they just buy some decent SMGs like every other SOF unit??? Even most police forces switched to state of the art SMGs with gunsights and accessoires . A SOF unit using WW2 era weaponry is just a disgrace although I know that the Garuds also use top class equipment (and I am not only talking about Tavors).


----------



## mirage2K

Koovie said:


> That might take years, why dont they just buy some decent SMGs like every other SOF unit??? Even most police forces switched to state of the art SMGs with gunsights and accessoires . A SOF unit using WW2 era weaponry is just a disgrace although I know that the Garuds also use top class equipment (and I am not only talking about Tavors).


The Garuds also use MP5's...these SMG's will be replaced soon in a phased manner....there is no shortage of funds...maybe these are nearing their service life and hence are being used until retirement


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Garuds still use WW2 era smgs?!?!





Koovie said:


> That might take years, why dont they just buy some decent SMGs like every other SOF unit??? Even most police forces switched to state of the art SMGs with gunsights and accessoires . A SOF unit using WW2 era weaponry is just a disgrace although I know that the Garuds also use top class equipment (and I am not only talking about Tavors).





mirage2K said:


> The Garuds also use MP5's...these SMG's will be replaced soon in a phased manner....there is no shortage of funds...maybe these are nearing their service life and hence are being used until retirement



I'm pretty sure this isn't a Garud. Looks to be regular IAF Police.

+ agree- regardless of being a SOF or not, having this pos WW2-era 9mm carbine is an utter joke espcially considering all the other new gear the guy is wearing. Exact same scernio is being played out with the IN's VBSS teams- brand spanking new uniforms, helmets,side-arms, BPJs, comn gear etc but with the same vintage 9mm era carbines 

atleast give the guy an INSAS for heaven's sake! Being issued a 9mm carbine means he has to wait until the baddy is within 100ms to take a shot.

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## d14gtc

DevilDog said:


> Thx. I saw thousands of "vs" conflicts in here between You and Pakistanis. Now i'm pretty sure that India goes all the ways   :indianflag:



Yeah No Certificates Needed Indeed ------ coz we are no Showoffs but " PROFESSIONALS"


----------



## kurup

*
Some Old Black Cat Commandos (NSG) pics.*

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> *
> Some Old NSG pics.*


Can't see any of the pics buddy.


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## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


> Can't see any of the pics buddy.



Fixed now .That briefcase pic is interesting .


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Garuds still use WW2 era smgs?!?!



I don't think he is a Garud...the reason being he is not wearing the "Special Forces" tab which Garuds wear nowadays and is similar to Para SF tab.Instead the guy is wearing regular Indian Airfirce tab.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I don't think he is a Garud...the reason being he is not wearing the "Special Forces" tab which Garuds wear nowadays and is similar to Para SF tab.Instead the guy is wearing regular Indian Airfirce tab.


Exactly my reasoning. This "Indian Air Force" tab is worn by all (regular) members of the IAF when in combat fatigues. AFAIK the Garuds DON'T wear such a tab though- opting for the maroon "Special Forces" tab instead.

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## Abingdonboy




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## ManuZ

????? ????? ?????????? ??...! Video: NDTV.com

&#2327;&#2352;&#2332;&#2340;&#2375; &#2327;&#2352;&#2369;&#2337;&#2364; &#2361;&#2367;&#2306;&#2342;&#2369;&#2360;&#2381;&#2340;&#2366;&#2344; &#2325;&#2375;...!


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## Water Car Engineer

Aero India 2013

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Aero India 2013



Nice find! Looking forward to more!!


Those bulky BPJs need to go. And it would be nice to see some effing standardization in uniforms!!

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## Roybot

Jeez that guy is a bit skinny!


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## james5

Really looking great.Indian army is very strong at the present time.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice find! Looking forward to more!!
> 
> 
> Those bulky BPJs need to go. And it would be nice to see some effing standardization in uniforms!!



Some of them have lighter BPJs

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## The A-5

Koovie said:


>



Guy on left: -
Heavier BPJ, knee pads, elbow pads, heavy/tough build.

Guy on right: -
Lighter BPJ, no knee or elbow protection, thin build.

What contrast!


----------



## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Some of them have lighter BPJs


Hmm.. Interesting! Seems like phased introduction. 


Not a fan of the Garuds' short-sleeved T-shirt under BPJ look. 


And again- they need to standardise their camos.

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## Abingdonboy



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## [Z]eEshAn

Indian Army Rockss


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## Koovie

[Z]eEshAn;3887097 said:


> Indian Army Rockss



Welcome to PDF, and btw, they are IAF soldiers

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## Dandpatta

The variable camouflages in one single unit has been my pet rant ! I had posted this issue before and Abingdon had obliged an answer..


----------



## Paan Singh

dint have thread to post 







UK Marines while mountaineering training in India.


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## Abingdonboy

Paan Singh said:


> dint have thread to post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK Marines while mountaineering training in India.


Not just marines, but also UK SF go to train with Indian military in the Indian mountains! Same goes for US SF!

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## mirage2K



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## Abingdonboy

whitefox011 said:


> i always wonder whats in the briefcase carried by presidents bodyguards SEE THE FIRST PIC LEFT SIDE nuclear launch codes??





Capt.Popeye said:


> The guy with the briefcase is/was always within a few feet of the PM.
> What is in the briefcase?
> Maybe the PM's packed lunch cooked by his wife and the medicines that he has to take after every meal!





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Have you seen compact firearms which are carried in suitcase..google it.Sorry for the trouble if I wasn't on my mobile I would have posted the data.





imperialmen said:


> The briefcase contains nuclear launch codes. Even America and Russia have it.
> 
> Nuclear briefcase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Capt.Popeye said:


> Why don't we ask Mrs. Manmohan Singh? Maybe she packs it for him every time he goes out?





whitefox011 said:


> okay so manmohan singh's lunch box seems the most probable thing


Guys found pics of such a system in use, Kevlar blanket breifcase:












This answers the Q.

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## whitefox011

but i though the pm has to wear bullet proof kurta pajama isnt that good enough


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## Koovie

whitefox011 said:


> but i though the pm has to wear bullet proof kurta pajama isnt that good enough



Every additional layer of kevlar is gonna help in emergency situations

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## Koovie



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

IA seem to use the Cheetah in a similar way to the Little Bird with the US:

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> IA seem to use the Cheetah in a similar way to the Little Bird with the US:



Yes I noticed that too. They even use them with MGs now.







Para SF

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## Koovie

*Paratroopers combat demo:*
@Abingdonboy your thoughts on this?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> IA seem to use the Cheetah in a similar way to the Little Bird with the US:



IA seems to be having a special tactic of deploying Sniper and his buddy behind enemy line to assassinate High Ranking official of enemy forces.I have seen Para SF being given the role and have seen a few extraction videos where they use open gypsy fitted with LMG.

A nice tactic I would say.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> *Paratroopers combat demo:*
> @Abingdonboy your thoughts on this?



Wow...textbook style intervention and extraction...would love to see Apache instead of Lancer.

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> *Paratroopers combat demo:*
> @Abingdonboy your thoughts on this?



VERY nice mate! First time I've seen such a demo in full!


+first time I've seen PARA (SF) use a flashbang.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


>



Is that LMG gunner using a PKM ?


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Is that LMG gunner using a PKM ?


Looks like it- makes him a MMG gunner!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Is that LMG gunner using a PKM ?



That's the weapon of choice of Para SF.

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That's the weapon of choice of Para SF.



Thats understandable because no one wants a LMG with a 30 round mag (INSAS LMG the only Indian made LMG)

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Thats understandable because no one ones a LMG with a 30 round mag (INSAS LMG the only Indian made LMG)



The IA and SF need to get a new MG the M249 would be my choice.


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> The IA and SF need to get a new MG the M249 would be my choice.



Isnt the Negev of the Marcos and the Garuds good enough? And the PKM has a larger caliber and more punch and can also be upgraded.


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Isnt the Negev of the Marcos and the Garuds good enough? And the PKM has a larger caliber and more punch and can also be upgraded.


I suppose so. But for the IA I wouldn't mind the M249 in Indian service. But yes the Garuds and MARCOs operate the Negev so for commanility sake the Negev is the best option Probably. I wonder why the PARA SF haven't opted for the Negev as of yet?.


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## jiki




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## Koovie

jiki said:


> glimps from aero india 2013



cant see the pics ^^


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## jiki

Koovie said:


> cant see the pics ^^



is it rqr to upld pics before posting here i m nt able to post it ..............hav sm vry gd pics of garuds

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## jiki

resolved
https://picasaweb.google.com/102630313598864857747/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCLW4-sXQ2N-GvgE#

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## agamdilawari

jiki said:


> resolved
> https://picasaweb.google.com/102630...key=Gv1sRgCLW4-sXQ2N-GvgE#5842665457704077026

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## Abingdonboy

@jiki you are the man!

My favorite:







I wish all the Garuds were dressed like this- black vest, cool gloves and long sleeve top. I guess they are getting phased introduction so soon........



Were the Garuds pretty okay to have their picture taken?

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## Dandpatta

with the kind of hats they wear, some of the guys (without moustaches) can be mistaken for South Americans (take away the patches etc)


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> @jiki you are the man!
> 
> My favorite:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish all the Garuds were dressed like this- black vest, cool gloves and long sleeve top. I guess they are getting phased introduction so soon........
> 
> 
> 
> Were the Garuds pretty okay to have their picture taken?



amazing! nice shot @jiki !  

No wonder all those guys in the backround want to take pics of them.


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## Koovie

jiki said:


> resolved
> https://picasaweb.google.com/102630313598864857747/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCLW4-sXQ2N-GvgE#



Badass

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## Koovie

NSG sniper

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> resolved
> https://picasaweb.google.com/102630313598864857747/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCLW4-sXQ2N-GvgE#



Not an AK or INSAS in sight!!

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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



Man,you are in love with the SPG and PM's convoy....and you are doing a good job posting about them and I would love to see you post about Presidents security and more importantly the "Presidents guards"

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Man,you are in love with the SPG and PM's convoi...and you are doing a good job posting about them and I would love to see you post about Presidents security and more importantly the "Presidents guards"



I do my best! You don't see much of the PM's or pres's convoy though! 

I've got the President's and Vice President's convoy here:


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## cloud_9

> PM's convoy

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## [Z]eEshAn

Thanks 
lol okay well then i'll say INDIA Rockss <3


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

Guys here's an interesting pic:





http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...orce-commando-on-vigil/slideshow/18427293.cms

Taken at Yelahanka AFB during A1 2013. Is identified as IAF Garud.


Interestingly he is wearing MARPAT digicam (which no IAF Garud other was seen wearing throughout the entire AI show). I wonder if he is really a Garud but if not who then? The only other unit we know that uses this camo in India is the CRPF's CoBRAs and I don't see why they'd be anywhere near Aero India.
@Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Water Car Engineer @Sergi any ideas?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys here's
> 
> Taken at Yelahanka AFB during A1 2013. Is identified as IAF Garud.
> 
> 
> Interestingly he is wearing MARPAT digicam (which no IAF Garud other was seen wearing throughout the entire AI show). I wonder if he is really a Garud but if not who then? The only other unit we know that uses this camo in India is the CRPF's CoBRAs and I don't see why they'd be anywhere near Aero India.
> @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Water Car Engineer @Sergi any ideas?



Indian Security Forces and their camo 

I have seen Railway Protection Force guys wear the same camo

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Indian Security Forces and their camo
> 
> I have seen Railway Protection Force guys wear the same camo



Really? Lol! 

So this guys could be from any CAPF?!! 

I'm pretty sure he's not a Garud though. 


+you're right the CAPFs and even Indian military need to get a grip on the uniform standards. At best all these units running around with different camos/uniforms looks unorderely at worst it presents a grave security risk.

There should be a standard uniform for each military unit (IA/IAF/IN) or standardisation among the three services. And then an standard uniform for CAPFs but with different dresses ie one camo dress ( it can be MARPAT) for use in paramilitary ops like anti-Naxal ops and one law enforcement/security uniform like a dark blue (NYPD uniform) dress for all other law enformcent duties. The current situation wherein different state police forces and CAPFs are buying a new uniform for every different unit is absurd. 



+ the police need to change their uniforms from the outdated khakis but that is a argument for another time.


----------



## mirage2K

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys here's an interesting pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Airforce Commando on vigil - Aero India 2013: Bangalore gears up for South Asia's biggest airshow | The Economic Times
> 
> Taken at Yelahanka AFB during A1 2013. Is identified as IAF Garud.
> 
> 
> Interestingly he is wearing MARPAT digicam (which no IAF Garud other was seen wearing throughout the entire AI show). I wonder if he is really a Garud but if not who then? The only other unit we know that uses this camo in India is the CRPF's CoBRAs and I don't see why they'd be anywhere near Aero India.
> @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Water Car Engineer @Sergi any ideas?



Must be a part of some special force otherwise the person would not have covered his face to hide his identity


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## BDforever

how many special forces does india have ?


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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys here's an interesting pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Airforce Commando on vigil - Aero India 2013: Bangalore gears up for South Asia's biggest airshow | The Economic Times
> 
> Taken at Yelahanka AFB during A1 2013. Is identified as IAF Garud.
> 
> 
> Interestingly he is wearing MARPAT digicam (which no IAF Garud other was seen wearing throughout the entire AI show). I wonder if he is really a Garud but if not who then? The only other unit we know that uses this camo in India is the CRPF's CoBRAs and I don't see why they'd be anywhere near Aero India.
> @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Water Car Engineer @Sergi any ideas?


I am bad at identification. But can you tell one thing. 
A new force is carved out of CISF for airport protection. And they are equipped with fancy gadgets ( hope good training also ). The guy might be one of them. But can't say for sure that these guies are posted at aero India

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Apart from his camo everything else is standard issue Army SF...can be Para Sf but they don't use this camo same goes for Garud, Marcos and even NSG.

Railway Police and COBRA use this camo but I don't see the need of them being in Aero India.

I have no idea who he is and all I can say is that near the place which is Yelehanka where Aero India is taking place there is a BSF training centre and also Crpf Centre besides there is Parachute regtt centre in Bangalore...so could be anyone!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

BDforever said:


> how many special forces does india have ?



PARA SF---->ARMY

MARCOS---->NAVY

GARUD---->AIR FORCE

These are the only SF and the Special Units are:-
NSG---->Anti-Hijacking and Anti terrorist unit also is home to the nation's premier bomb squad.

SG----Top secret unit under Special Frontier Force.

Other Airborne unit--Para Commando and Special Frontier Force.

Rashtriya Rifles--the biggest and battle hardened anti terrorist force...has over thousands of terrorist kills.

COBRA--Anti Naxal force
Besider this state police have elite units like Delhi Police has SWAT,Mumbai Police has F1 and Punjab,j&k,Karnataka and many more states have their elite counter terrorism units.

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## BDforever

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PARA SF---->ARMY
> 
> MARCOS---->NAVY
> 
> GARUD---->AIR FORCE
> 
> These are the only SF and the Special Units are:-
> NSG---->Anti-Hijacking and Anti terrorist unit also is home to the nation's premier bomb squad.
> 
> SG----Top secret unit under Special Frontier Force.
> 
> Other Airborne unit--Para Commando and Special Frontier Force.
> 
> Rashtriya Rifles--the biggest and battle hardened anti terrorist force...has over thousands of terrorist kills.
> Besider this state police have elite units like Delhi Police has SWAT,Mumbai Police has F1 and Punjab,j&k,Karnataka and many more states have their elite counter terrorism units.


thanks for the info


----------



## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys here's an interesting pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Airforce Commando on vigil - Aero India 2013: Bangalore gears up for South Asia's biggest airshow | The Economic Times
> 
> Taken at Yelahanka AFB during A1 2013. Is identified as IAF Garud.
> 
> 
> Interestingly he is wearing MARPAT digicam (which no IAF Garud other was seen wearing throughout the entire AI show). I wonder if he is really a Garud but if not who then? The only other unit we know that uses this camo in India is the CRPF's CoBRAs and I don't see why they'd be anywhere near Aero India.
> @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Water Car Engineer @Sergi any ideas?



Mhhh I doubt that the CRPF would guard any military installations, most probably the usual uniform mess in the military ^^

PS: You could see non Garud security forces with OFB made AKs and INSAS ARs in many news reports though. But I guess they are Police units... or maybe CISF? 







Sergi said:


> I am bad at identification. But can you tell one thing.
> A new force is carved out of CISF for airport protection. And they are equipped with fancy gadgets ( hope good training also ). The guy might be one of them. But can't say for sure that these guies are posted at aero India



Yes CISF has some new toys like MP 5s with gun sights. You can see them in airports now. But I think they wont guard Air Force bases. 
However, you could see non Garud security forces with OFB made AKs and INSAS ARs in many news reports though.


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


>



Absolutely badass

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## Sergi

Koovie said:


> Yes CISF has some new toys like MP 5s with gun sights. You can see them in airports now. But I think they wont guard Air Force bases.
> However, you could see non Garud security forces with OFB made AKs in many news reports though.



Guard perimeters are multilayer. And generally outer perimeters are given to the force that knows the area better.

And the fancy stuff doesn't end at mp-5s and sights. They got more. Waite for few months you will see them on airports everywhere.

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## Echo_419

Abingdonboy said:


>



Rishi Kapoor 
Samaj aya to thoko thanks


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## Koovie

Sergi said:


> Guard perimeters are multilayer. And generally outer perimeters are given to the force that knows the area better.
> 
> And the fancy stuff doesn't end at mp-5s and sights. They got more. Waite for few months you will see them on airports everywhere.



Yes its unlikely that the Garuds guard the outer areas of AI, but these guys are quite close to the heart of the show. 

Can anyone ID them?






PS: I only mentioned the new MP5s because I was surprised to see them when I saw them a few months ago in Cochin^^

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## Koovie

From Kunal B. from another forum:

NSG women commandos, note the SMG, a MP 9


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> From Kunal B. from another forum:
> 
> NSG women commandos, note the SMG, a MP 9



IIRC these are some state's female police commandos not NSG. Maybe Punjab's?


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## kurup

A lady IA officer with a Para badge .

Picture from BR.


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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> A lady IA officer with a Para badge .
> 
> Picture from BR.


This has been debated a lot! ANY IA soldier can become parachute-qualified and earn these airborne wings just by going through a 4-6 month airborne qualification course. This doesn't make the recipient of the wings SF or a commando, it is simply another badge/qualification like marksmen or gunner. The military gives you access to opportunities you are never going to get in the civilian world.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Guys for SF there is the SF tab for identification and not parachute wings.Being Airborne is not being SF.Almost every branch of the IA has Airborne components from Nurses to Combat sappers...it won't be wise to call a airborne qualified nurse as a super commando,is it?

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Guys for SF there is the SF tab for identification and not parachute wings.Being Airborne is not being SF.Almost every branch of the IA has Airborne components from Nurses to Combat sappers...it won't be wise to call a airborne qualiued nurse as a super commando,is it?



+100, couldn't have put it better myself mate!

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## Abingdonboy



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


>



are these the standard issued kevlar vests?


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## Abingdonboy

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> are these the standard issued kevlar vests?



The black one (far left) now is, yes.

+ the bulku green/camo BPJs (on the right) are being phased out.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

Guys pretty interesting posters from AI 2013 relating specifically to Indian SOFs:
















My favorite (relates to MARCOs):








Very few units on earth can be air-dropped into the water with their gear and with their boats. This is an incredibly useful capbility to have- MARCOs can be airdropped from a IL-76,C-130J or C-17 with full combat gear into waters off the coast of the enemy, scale onto their boats that too have been dropped with them and then motor onto the mission. 

This is serious business.
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Sergi @Water Car Engineer check it out!

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## Water Car Engineer

This guys layout is pretty much where they're going I'm guessing.

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> This guys layout is pretty where they're going I'm guessing.



Yeah, I'd say so.

+love those gloves!

Maybe he and a few others were "guinea pigs" testing this layout over a week-long event where he will be wearing it for most of the day.

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## Water Car Engineer

Boy oh boy will the Indian SFs look crazy in 5-10 years.

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Boy oh boy will the Indian SFs look crazy in 5-10 years.


You know it! No one will be comparing them to Western SOF wrt looks then!

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## Koovie

Water Car Engineer said:


> This guys layout is pretty much where they're going I'm guessing.



Damns, those Garuds are becoming the secret attraction of Aero India 2013 



Abingdonboy said:


> Guys pretty interesting posters from AI 2013 relating specifically to Indian SOFs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My favorite (relates to MARCOs):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very few units on earth can be air-dropped into the water with their gear and with their boats. This is an incredibly useful capbility to have- MARCOs can be airdropped from a IL-76,C-130J or C-17 with full combat gear into waters off the coast of the enemy, scale onto their boats that too have been dropped with them and then motor onto the mission.
> 
> This is serious business.
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Sergi @Water Car Engineer check it out!




Wow, awesome find mate! 

With our ever expanding world class transport fleet, our modernization program of our SOFs and the future unified SOF command the GOI will soon have a truly strategic and mighty operational force

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## Agent_47



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## Koovie

Agent_47 said:


>



wrong thread????


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## kurup

Navy&#8217;s Marcos get &#8216;duck drops&#8217;


If Ajmal Kasab&#8217;s cousins come calling again or pirates strike over choppy seas, India&#8217;s marine commandos (Marcos) will take just over an hour to launch a counter-offensive. _Leading the charge will be two Marcos squadrons, deployed in Mumbai and Port Blair, equipped with &#8220;duck drop&#8221; systems fitted on Ilyushin-76 aircraft._

This is a &#8220;force-multiplier&#8221;, said a scientist from the Aerial Delivery Rese-arch and Develop-ment Establishment, the Agra-based outfit that designed the system. *Once paradropped from aircraft, it allows marines to assemble inflatable motorised boats in 10 minutes and race towards ships in distress.*

_&#8220;Once commandos are near the target, they can dismantle the boats and travel underwater to mount a surprise attack. The marines can be deployed in an hour, unlike earlier when it took up to 48 hours to reach targets as they had to travel on ships. Each system (two boats) can take 32 commandos, weapons and fuel,&#8221; the scientist told this newspaper._

*The scientist said the &#8220;duck drop&#8221; system was inducted recently by the Navy after several trials in the Indian Ocean*. &#8220;It took us two years to develop the system; it&#8217;s a cost-effective way to rush commandos for rescue operations. It costs less than a tenth of a similar system that US marines use onboard C-130J Super Hercules. It is also impossible to acquire these as the US has banned their sale,&#8221; he added.

The &#8220;duck drop&#8221; system will be on display for the first time at Aero India 2013.


Navy

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## Koovie

kurup said:


> Navy&#8217;s Marcos get &#8216;duck drops&#8217;
> 
> 
> If Ajmal Kasab&#8217;s cousins come calling again or pirates strike over choppy seas, India&#8217;s marine commandos (Marcos) will take just over an hour to launch a counter-offensive. _Leading the charge will be two Marcos squadrons, deployed in Mumbai and Port Blair, equipped with &#8220;duck drop&#8221; systems fitted on Ilyushin-76 aircraft._
> 
> This is a &#8220;force-multiplier&#8221;, said a scientist from the Aerial Delivery Rese-arch and Develop-ment Establishment, the Agra-based outfit that designed the system. *Once paradropped from aircraft, it allows marines to assemble inflatable motorised boats in 10 minutes and race towards ships in distress.*
> 
> _&#8220;Once commandos are near the target, they can dismantle the boats and travel underwater to mount a surprise attack. The marines can be deployed in an hour, unlike earlier when it took up to 48 hours to reach targets as they had to travel on ships. Each system (two boats) can take 32 commandos, weapons and fuel,&#8221; the scientist told this newspaper._
> 
> *The scientist said the &#8220;duck drop&#8221; system was inducted recently by the Navy after several trials in the Indian Ocean*. &#8220;It took us two years to develop the system; it&#8217;s a cost-effective way to rush commandos for rescue operations. It costs less than a tenth of a similar system that US marines use onboard C-130J Super Hercules. It is also impossible to acquire these as the US has banned their sale,&#8221; he added.
> 
> The &#8220;duck drop&#8221; system will be on display for the first time at Aero India 2013.
> 
> 
> Navy



Nice news!

Being able to parachute into the ocean out of a IL 76, C130J or C17 with boats is truly a force multiplier !


----------



## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys pretty interesting posters from AI 2013 relating specifically to Indian SOFs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My favorite (relates to MARCOs):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very few units on earth can be air-dropped into the water with their gear and with their boats. This is an incredibly useful capbility to have- MARCOs can be airdropped from a IL-76,C-130J or C-17 with full combat gear into waters off the coast of the enemy, scale onto their boats that too have been dropped with them and then motor onto the mission.
> 
> This is serious business.
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Sergi @Water Car Engineer check it out!


Nice find. Duck drop is new to me. Never heard of it before 

BTW "rumour mill" is speculating some interesting turn of events in MOD for our SOFs. Specially the transport. C-17 or Chinook or both  do you have any idea about it ???


----------



## trident2010

What is the status for F-INSAS?


----------



## Koovie

trident2010 said:


> What is the status for F-INSAS?



Has nothing to do with SOFs. 

But the Army is testing new assault rifles like the Beretta ARX 160


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Nice find. Duck drop is new to me. Never heard of it before
> 
> BTW "rumour mill" is speculating some interesting turn of events in MOD for our SOFs. Specially the transport. C-17 or Chinook or both  do you have any idea about it ???


How do you mean mate?


----------



## Sergi

Koovie said:


> Has nothing to do with SOFs.
> 
> But the Army is testing new assault rifles like the Beretta ARX 160



How do you know ???

There is no info in public domain on who filled in the tender of New assault rifle. And I think the testing of weapons will only commence later this year after the scrutiny of the tenders. Correct me if I am wrong


----------



## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> How do you mean mate?



The unification of Special forces under one command and giving the command some serious tooth. 

It might me a rumour so not going in details as of now but a good number of transport platforms are being under consideration for the unified command.


----------



## Koovie

Sergi said:


> How do you know ???
> 
> There is no info in public domain on who filled in the tender of New assault rifle. And I think the testing of weapons will only commence later this year after the scrutiny of the tenders. Correct me if I am wrong



NEW DELHI, Nov. 19 (UPI) - *The Indian army is implementing its Future Infantry Soldier Program 2020.
~*
A key component of the program is to upgrade Indian army infantry weapons. The upgraded weapons to be acquired include foreign-made assault rifles, carbines, light machine guns and sniper rifles over the next two years..

*To fill an initial order for 60,000 assault rifles, in the past two weeks the army has completed initial user trials of five guns contending for the contract, including *

1.Beretta 
2.Colt,
3.Israel's IWI,
4.Switzerland's Sig-Sauer 
5.Czech Republic's Ceska. 

Technical evaluations are to commence shortly, The Pioneer newspaper reported.
~
The winning assault rifle will come equipped with 5.56mm and 7.62mm (M43) caliber with interchangeable barrels conversion kits, with the 5.56mm option being used in a conventional war fighting role as the barrel will provide longer range, while 7.62mm configuration will be used in counter-terrorism and the counter-insurgency environment, as it will provide troops the capability to fire like AK-56 rifles.

Indian army to upgrade infantry weapons - UPI.com

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## MilSpec

Sergi said:


> The unification of Special forces under one command and giving the command some serious tooth.
> 
> It might me a rumour so not going in details as of now but a good number of transport platforms are being under consideration for the unified command.




I think it will have the opposite effect, SOF under different command will actually serve the purpose better. I relate unified command to bigger chain of command and slower responses.


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## Sergi

sandy_3126 said:


> I think it will have the opposite effect, SOF under different command will actually serve the purpose better. I relate unified command to bigger chain of command and slower responses.



Unified command is almost certain. 
But don't you think Special OPs are generally planned at top level ??? It will more easy in planning and execution if the command is directly involved. 

But as of today we don't know what they mean by unification

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## Koovie

Sergi said:


> Unified command is almost certain.
> But don't you think Special OPs are generally planned at top level ??? It will more easy in planning and execution if the command is directly involved.
> 
> *But as of today we don't know what they mean by unification*




They will bring the Marcos, Para SF, Garuds and NSG under one command.?


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## Sergi

Koovie said:


> They will bring the Marcos, Para SF, Garuds and NSG under one command.?



I don't think NSG will be there.


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## Koovie

Sergi said:


> I don't think NSG will be there.



*Soon, commandos to come under single command*

"A plan is afoot to integrate commandoes of the army, navy, air force and the National Security Guard (NSG) under a single command."


Soon, commandos to come under single command - Hindustan Times

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## Sergi

Koovie said:


> *Soon, commandos to come under single command*
> 
> "A plan is afoot to integrate commandoes of the army, navy, air force and the National Security Guard (NSG) under a single command."
> 
> 
> Soon, commandos to come under single command - Hindustan Times



I still think NSG won't be there  
Lets wait and see


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> I still think NSG won't be there
> Lets wait and see





Sergi said:


> I don't think NSG will be there.



It is said that 51 SAG will be part of the Indian SOCOM. I am not sure what utility this will serve as the NSG is under the MHA and is meant for internal CT ops whilst SOCOM and the SOFs under the MoD are meant primarily as offensive tools. 


The only advantage of this would be joint training between the MoD SOFs and the SAG elements of the NSG. 



Sergi said:


> Unified command is almost certain.
> But don't you think Special OPs are generally planned at top level ??? It will more easy in planning and execution if the command is directly involved.
> 
> But as of today we don't know what they mean by unification





sandy_3126 said:


> I think it will have the opposite effect, SOF under different command will actually serve the purpose better. I relate unified command to bigger chain of command and slower responses.


Sirs all the evidence on this subject clearly points to an increase in efficiency when SOFs of different wings come under one command. With the Indian SOCOM having its own separate budget, it own autonomy and its own integral logistics and support infrastructure the Indian SOFs will really flourish IMHO. All the individual strengths of the individual SOFs will be combined into one mean command that has the tools and ability to carry out any Spec Op mission demanded by the civilian govt. 



Sergi said:


> The unification of Special forces under one command and giving the command some serious tooth.
> 
> It might me a rumor so not going in details as of now but a good number of transport platforms are being under consideration for the unified command.


I don't know about C-17s, this is seriously unlikely and overkill IMHO. Yes C-17s can be used to support certain SOFs ops there is no need for the SOCOM to have C-17s under its command. But when needed the SOCOM will be able to call upon the C-17s for sure for specific tasks. 


The C-130J-30s the IAF has procured specifically for Spec Op missions are the ideal platform IMHO- they are large enough to carry serious numbers of cargo or personal and has serious range (complemented by IFR) to go wherever they need to. Not to mention the on-board avionics that are customised to allow for low-level, night time missions. 


Having said that I do feel there is a need for a smaller fixed-wing platform under SOCOM's command like the C-27J. When the mainstream fleet gets its replacement to the Avro don't be surprised if the SOCOM gets a few of its own.


On the rotary-wing front- I feel this is the weakest area of the SOCOM as there are 0 platforms ear-marked for the SOCOM right now. Yes we are only in early stages of the plans so let's wait and see. The IA has plans for a dedicated helo SOAR to fly the ALH- this will now certainly pass to the SOCOM's shopping list. I think that India has an excellent Spec Ops support platform in the ALH MK.4 and I hope the SOCOM gets plenty of these birds. 

As far as heavy-lift rotary-wing assets go I have heard murmurs around the MH-47G (the Spec Ops version of the CH-47 Chinook) and also the CV-22. But let's wait and see. I would love either one of these in Indian service specifically to support SOFs. 



Sergi said:


> How do you know ???
> 
> There is no info in public domain on who filled in the tender of New assault rifle. And I think the testing of weapons will only commence later this year after the scrutiny of the tenders. Correct me if I am wrong




Sir, AFAIK the decision on the rifle is set for this year (2013) and deliveries are set for early 2014 to the IA. The process is in advanced stages. 


I hope the ARX-160 is the winner. Although I don't think this will have much affect on the Indian SOFs. 


@Sergi I would be VERY interested to hear what rumors you've heard. 






+ I wish the money being spent on raising additional Mountain corps was spent on the raising of the SOCOM. Raising SOCOM is going to be a VERY expensive job and that $10BN would go a long way in setting up this SOCOM. And IMHO the money would be better spent on the SOCOM that is a strategic asset and has a much higher chance of being used on a day-day basis. The Mountain Corps is just going to sit there and train- Indian SOFs are in combat on a daily basis.

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## Sergi

@Abingdonboy :
there certainly are opinion differences at TOP between some MOD babus and high ranking uniform men.
AFAIK Unified command was/is a need felt by our services while planning some OPS ( DON'T know which or when) where mixing SFs was handy but coordination task usually took time. Thats what i could dig. But therr is definatly something more which we don't know: D

Babus at MOD think unification of NSG and other SFs will reduce time and costs of trainning, command and infra.
services dont agree to this as of now as they will have be bear HOME ministry in this. One more civilian body for no reason. And NSG already had regional hubs and good reputation.

On c130 or c17 i agree with your point but i am pretty sure i heard 17 and chinook. But i dont think they will get both at the same time

( posting from mobile and it su@k)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Mate,NSG can be used for offense roles too and there were a few operations in mid 90s in the Kashmir valley where they were called in and I think they would be a good addition to the SOCOM with their upgrades,experience and skill moreover their role will be to look for Special Operation inside the internal territory while the other units can concentrate on external threats.

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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> On c130 or c17 i agree with your point but i am pretty sure i heard 17 and chinook. But i dont think they will get both at the same time
> 
> ( posting from mobile and it su@k)


 @Sergi where did you hear this from?


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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> @Sergi where did you hear this from?



From a NOT so RELIBLE source .... a retired babu ...... That's why said may be a rumour. Generally retired people are good source of information if you loved to listen and if they trust you. Two hard things.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Mate,NSG can be used for offense roles too and there were a few operations in mid 90s in the Kashmir valley where they were called in and I think they would be a good addition to the SOCOM with their upgrades,experience and skill moreover their role will be to look for Special Operation inside the internal territory while the other units can concentrate on external threats.



But doing that will bring HOME ministry's say in "Special forces". That won't be good and services won't agree to have two masters. 

Better thing to do will be keep NSG as is. We already have invested a lot in NSG. Now they have created regional hubs. Increased intakes and total number of commandos. So it won't be a good idea to give up all this just to bring every commando under one banner. 

The original concept was to create a "Special forces School" to train them together to increase coordination and get to know each other in terms of OP tactics and methods. 
Lets see what happens next.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> But doing that will bring HOME ministry's say in "Special forces". That won't be good and services won't agree to have two masters.
> 
> Better thing to do will be keep NSG as is. We already have invested a lot in NSG. Now they have created regional hubs. Increased intakes and total number of commandos. So it won't be a good idea to give up all this just to bring every commando under one banner.
> 
> The original concept was to create a "Special forces School" to train them together to increase coordination and get to know each other in terms of OP tactics and methods.
> Lets see what happens next.



Orignal concept IMHO is to have a command and not to have a common place to train together.Moreover NSG is already under MHA even after repeated protest by the Army and I think SOCOm won't come under MHA but MoD even if NSG join.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Orignal concept IMHO is to have a command and not to have a common place to train together.Moreover NSG is already under MHA even after repeated protest by the Army and I think SOCOm won't come under MHA but MoD even if NSG join.



AFAIK joint command/ unified concept came later. 

Agree with rest of the post but adding NSG will give home ministry a not required participation in Services. Don't you agree that ???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> AFAIK joint command/ unified concept came later.
> 
> Agree with rest of the post but adding NSG will give home ministry a not required participation in Services. Don't you agree that ???



They won't have any say...NSG SAG is all Army bro.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They won't have any say...*NSG SAG is all Army bro.*



Yes to Bolded part 

NSG polices, go-in clearance, infra setup and OPs are reported and coordinated to HOME. Not to IA or MOD.


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## Koovie

Sergi said:


> I still think NSG won't be there
> Lets wait and see



Agree.

But I my opinion it would make sense to add the SAG to the SOC. Because without them, the SOC is only allowed to undertake OPs against foreign threats or can only act inside the country with special permission. Is that true???

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Agree.
> 
> But I my opinion it would make sense to add the SAG to the SOC. Because without them, the SOC is only allowed to undertake OPs against foreign threats or can only act inside the country with special permission. Is that true???



Yup that's true...these IM terrorists and other groups operating inside the country need to be taken out too so Marcos or Para SF can't go for them moreover what if we have a hijacking situation like Kanadahar or maoists hijack a train..Then I am 100% sure that neither will the Marcos be called and nor with the Para SF be called...It will be a 100% NSG mission so they need to be on board for a joint command.

It would suck for the SOCOM team to not be part of this mission as the posters suggest that NSG doesn't qualify.

It would be only sensible to have all Special units under one roof and NSG has carried out several special missions in the past be it against militants in Punjab in the late 80s or Kashmir valley in the mid 90s and all of these were offensive missions.

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## Sergi

Koovie said:


> Agree.
> 
> But I my opinion it would make sense to add the SAG to the SOC. Because without them, the SOC is only allowed to undertake OPs against foreign threats or can only act inside the country with special permission. Is that true???



Buddy I am nobody. Just a messenger 

And that's the idea to keep things separate. Nobody is saying NSG commandos are less important or capable. It's the job mandate. I don't see any other commandos doing OPs inside India other than NSG. And we see that in Mumbai attack. MARCOS just cordon the perimeter and prepare layout strategy but didn't go in. I don't think anyone here will like to say MARCOS weren't capable enought for that OP. but it was outta their mandate unless GOI want to change that. 

GOI while dealing with internal problems is very specific to use of armed forces. Using Milletry power for internal issues is considered bad internationally and restricted to the extreme conditions and disaster relief OPs.

Here's link about US SOC/SOCOM 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Special_Operations_Command

Most probably our forces are seeing things the same way.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yup that's true...these IM terrorists and other groups operating inside the country need to be taken out too so Marcos or Para SF can't go for them


 that's correct they can't. GOI's policy NOT to use Milletry power against internal problems unless and until there is no ore option. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> moreover what if we have a hijacking situation like *Kanadahar*


 outside the Union of India. Not NSG's job. Most probably PARAs



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> or maoists hijack a train..Then I am 100% sure that neither will the Marcos be called and nor with the Para SF be called...It will be a 100% NSG mission so they need to be on board for a joint command.


 definately NSG's job. GOI's policy NOT to use Milletry power against internal problems unless and until there is no ore option. 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It would suck for the SOCOM team to not be part of this mission *as the posters suggest that **NSG doesn't qualify*.


 wrong choice of words 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It would be only sensible to have all Special units under one roof and NSG has carried out several special missions in the past be it against militants in Punjab in the late 80s or Kashmir valley in the mid 90s and all of these were offensive missions.


As I said earlier , there is a difference in opinion what MOD want and what forces want. Lets see what happen. We can only predict. Noing more


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## Jason bourne

NSG women recruits ?


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## Sergi

Jason bourne said:


> NSG women recruits ?



#Page121. 
#Post 1810 & 1811


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> that's correct they can't. GOI's policy NOT to use Milletry power against internal problems unless and until there is no ore option.
> 
> outside the Union of India. Not NSG's job. Most probably PARAs
> 
> definately NSG's job. GOI's policy NOT to use Milletry power against internal problems unless and until there is no ore option.
> wrong choice of words
> 
> As I said earlier , there is a difference in opinion what MOD want and what forces want. Lets see what happen. We can only predict. Noing more



During the hijacking of Indian Airline aircraft the NSG commandos were present on the plane sent for negotiation.

Moreover unlike you said I am gonna stick out my neck and say that if I become a hostage and I get to know that NSG is coming to rescue me I will be 100 times more happy than I will be had Marcos or Para Sf been sent reason being that is the speciality of NSG and not Marcos or Para SF.Their role is different even though they train regularly for these kinda situation...Harbhajan Singh will always be a better spin bowler than Yuvraj Singh no matter how many wickets Yuvraj takes.

The thing you said about wrong choice of words is not exactly wrong as someone was pointing out being under MHA makes them less eligible to be under the Defence ministry too.

Cheers!

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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> NSG women recruits ?



Nope- Punjab police.

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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> During the hijacking of Indian Airline aircraft the NSG commandos were present on the plane sent for negotiation.
> 
> Moreover unlike you said I am gonna stick out my neck and say that if I become a hostage and I get to know that NSG is coming to rescue me I will be 100 times more happy than I will be had Marcos or Para Sf been sent reason being that is the speciality of NSG and not Marcos or Para SF.Their role is different even though they train regularly for these kinda situation...Harbhajan Singh will always be a better spin bowler than Yuvraj Singh no matter how many wickets Yuvraj takes.
> 
> The thing you said about wrong choice of words is not exactly wron1g as someone was pointing out being under MHA makes them less eligible to be under the Defence ministry too.
> 
> Cheers!



1. I am not aware of the details of hijack incident . 

2. Interesting fact about cricket, in one Ind vs Aus in the presence of Kumble and Warn, Sachin was the highest wicket taker was awarded man of the match.

3. I might have missed that post or over looked ok 

Let's see what happen


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## The A-5

Jason bourne said:


> NSG women recruits ?



Whats the gun the girl is holding up? It looks like Roni pistol carbine sourced from Kalyani Group.


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## Koovie

The A-5 said:


> Whats the gun the girl is holding up? It looks like Roni pistol carbine sourced from Kalyani Group.



Its a MP 9

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I was at this remote airfield somewhere in Central India where a GOC of a Corp of the Indian Army had to come.The threat factor was minimal as it was a rural area with no Maoist or terrorist threat...you know the easy going village life.
All I was excited was to see the Dhruvs and the equipments it had.But to my surprise Para SF cordon the entire airfield with Snipers and Commandos who looked soo serious.

To be really honest when I first saw them I was wowed.LOL...could not even manage to go to them and ask a few questions...they were not very friendly as they must be trained not to be as the enemy could play with this.

This was a few months ago and yeah the Dhruvs didn't come but two Chetaks came with two stickers.One inside the cockpit saying that the per hour operating cost is 1 lac and the other outside saying that it costs 7.5 crore.The pilot said the endurance was 2:45 mins.The pilots were very down to earth.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was at this remote airfield somewhere in Central India where a GOC of a Corp of the Indian Army had to come.The threat factor was minimal as it was a rural area with no Maoist or terrorist threat...you know the easy going village life.
> All I was excited was to see the Dhruvs and the equipments it had.But to my surprise Para SF cordon the entire airfield with Snipers and Commandos who looked soo serious.
> 
> To be really honest when I first saw them I was wowed.LOL...could not even manage to go to them and ask a few questions...they were not very friendly as they must be trained not to be as the enemy could play with this.
> 
> This was a few months ago and yeah the Dhruvs didn't come but two Chetaks came with two stickers.One inside the cockpit saying that the per hour operating cost is 1 lac and the other outside saying that it costs 7.5 crore.The pilot said the endurance was 2:45 mins.The pilots were very down to earth.


Weird- why does a GOC of a corps need a SF protection team in such a location?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Weird- why does a GOC of a corps need a SF protection team in such a location?



The Chief and all the Generals have the protection of the Para SF.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The Chief and all the Generals have the protection of the Para SF.



I can understand the COAS but do all other IA generals really need such protection?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I can understand the COAS but do all other IA generals really need such protection?



I am sorry in my last post what i meant was all Corp commander have such protection.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am sorry in my last post what i meant was all Corp commander have such protection.



Fair enough but isn't this still a little excessive? During peacetime what does a Corps commander need SF protection for?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Fair enough but isn't this still a little excessive? During peacetime what does a Corps commander need SF protection for?



Thats what i thought considering the security threat in the location.Anyways being cautious does no harm.I have been to a few bases and my best friends bro is a Sukhoi pilot so what i have gathered is that be it a Army base,Af base or Naval bases security is very high.

I was shocked to know that an Army Major was stopped from entering a AF base untill the Major had to bring permission from his senior to visit the fighter base.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thats what i thought considering the security threat in the location.Anyways being cautious does no harm.I have been to a few bases and my best friends bro is a Sukhoi pilot so what i have gathered is that be it a Army base,Af base or Naval bases security is very high.
> 
> I was shocked to know that an Army Major was stopped from entering a AF base untill the Major had to bring permission from his senior to visit the fighter base.



Like you say- better safe than sorry! At least India is not going to fall foul of the same fate as its neighbour. And yes from my own personal knowledge I know Indian military installations are increasingly well protected.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Like you say- better safe than sorry! At least India is not going to fall foul of the same fate as its neighbour. And yes from my own personal knowledge I know Indian military installations are increasingly well protected.



Yup thats right...already the security was high and specially after what happened to Pakistan's AF base the IAF has been even more cautious with its security.

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## Abingdonboy

Dr MMS's convoy:

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## mirage2K

what is the patch below the Garud bird insignia, partially sewn on the pen pocket ????



Abingdonboy said:


> Fair enough but isn't this still a little excessive? During peacetime what does a Corps commander need SF protection for?



May be part of their SOP


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## mirage2K

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I don't think he is a Garud...the reason being he is not wearing the "Special Forces" tab which Garuds wear nowadays and is similar to Para SF tab.Instead the guy is wearing regular Indian Airfirce tab.



But he has the Garud patch on his sleeve


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

mirage2K said:


> But he has the Garud patch on his sleeve



That's the IAF patch.

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## Abingdonboy

mirage2K said:


> But he has the Garud patch on his sleeve



The bird patch isn't unique to the Garuds- it isn't the Garud's patch. @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR is right- the guy isn't wearing the maroon "SPECIAL FORCES" tab- he isn't a Garud/SF. Pretty much all IAF personal wear this "bird" patch when in combat fatigues (camos).


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## Abingdonboy

My latest video:

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## Koovie

Garud Commandos

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## Koovie

*Garud Commandos inserted on the battlefield by a C130J*






*The only good quality close up of the NSG (watch at 0:50)*





*NSG*






Paras (or maybe Garuds)

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> *NSG*



NSG are looking pretty darn excellent now!

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## Water Car Engineer

*NSG commando during Iron Fist 2013
*






*Garud Commando during Iron Fist 2013*

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## Koovie

*Finally a high quality version of the NSG assault:*

Note the use of flashbangs, real time coverage for the commander and bomb disposal robots.
The NSG has come a long way to get so far

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## Koovie

CSR op by the Garuds

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## Abingdonboy

SPG Counter Assualt Team:

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> SPG Counter Assualt Team:





^^ LoL is it only me or is this the worst quality ever, I cant even read what is written on his BPJ.


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> ^^ LoL is it only me or is this the worst quality ever, I cant even read what is written on his BPJ.



Yep, I grabbed a few CAPS from a poor quality YT vid. They have "POLICE" written on the BPJ FYI.

2 more:






This ones a little clearer:

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## Koovie

Police? mhhhh thats interesting.......


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Police? mhhhh thats interesting.......



Not really, they are SPG (the CAT) just they are wearing "POLICE" to make it apparent who they are. If they had SPF/SPACIAL PROTECTION GROUP instead no one would have a clue who they were. The US Secret Service does the same thing:

USSS CAT:


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## Sergi

@Abingdonboy : SPG counter assault team ??? I didn't know SPG is supposed to do that. Isn't it the job of SAG ???


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> @Abingdonboy : SPG counter assault team ??? I didn't know SPG is supposed to do that. Isn't it the job of SAG ???



Yeah these guys have been around for ages. Their purpose is to provide time for the PM to be rushed away in case of attack. Ie the name- Counter Assualt, in case of an attack on the PM they would engage the threat and try and make time so the close protection team can get the PM away from danger. As such they are heavily armed and well protected.


NSG SAG are meant for hostage rescue and CT ops, SPG CAT is purely to protect the PM.

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## RPK



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## whitefox011

wdf ^^^ how is that part of training


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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah these guys have been around for ages. Their purpose is to provide time for the PM to be rushed away in case of attack. Ie the name- Counter Assualt, in case of an attack on the PM they would engage the threat and try and make time so the close protection team can get the PM away from danger. As such they are heavily armed and well protected.
> 
> 
> NSG SAG are meant for hostage rescue and CT ops, SPG CAT is purely to protect the PM.



Are you sure ???
As far as I know SPG never leave PM or anybody whom they guarding. They defend and withdraw to safety. No assault.

Or you mean to say close protection team is not SPG ???


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Are you sure ???
> As far as I know SPG never leave PM or anybody whom they guarding. They defend and withdraw to safety. No assault.
> 
> Or you mean to say close protection team is not SPG ???



Mate, the SPG has different wings/arms. There is the close protection team- the guys in the suits/safari suits closest to the PM at all times. Then there is the CAT (Counter Assualt Team) who protect the outer perimeter and are the ones decked out in combat gear. The job of the CAT is, in the event of an attack, put as much fire down-range, pin down the assaulters and draw fire away from the PM whilst the close protection team get the PM away to safety. This the entire point of the CAT- _COUNTER ASSUALT_!! 


The SPG also has a Counter Sniper unit but this isn't relevant for this discussion. 



The entire security of the PM is handled by the SPG, no one else.

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate, the SPG has different wings/arms. There is the close protection team- the guys in the suits/safari suits closest to the PM at all times. Then there is the CAT (Counter Assualt Team) who protect the outer perimeter and are the ones decked out in combat gear. The job of the CAT is, in the event of an attack, put as much fire down-range, pin down the assaulters and draw fire away from the PM whilst the close protection team get the PM away to safety. This the entire point of the CAT- _COUNTER ASSUALT_!!
> 
> 
> The SPG also has a Counter Sniper unit but this isn't relevant for this discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> The entire security of the PM is handled by the SPG, no one else.


Didn't know that much. Interested in counter sniper Unit. Where can I get the info ???

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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Didn't know that much. Interested in counter sniper Unit. Where can I get the info ???



New SPG unit to combat snipers - Times Of India

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> New SPG unit to combat snipers - Times Of India



Off topic : Have you seen "Day of the Jackal" ??? Nice movie.

Thanks for the link


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Off topic : Have you seen "Day of the Jackal" ??? Nice movie.
> 
> Thanks for the link


No mate, I can't say I have seen it! But I am quite adverse to watching films before 1991! Lol!


+ you won't find much on the SPG, understandably, they like to keep low-key and elusive.

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## Capt.Popeye

whitefox011 said:


> wdf ^^^ how is that part of training



That is just to check the Abs !

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> No mate, I can't say I have seen it! But I am quite adverse to watching films before 1991! Lol!
> 
> 
> + you won't find much on the SPG, understandably, they like to keep low-key and elusive.



We can't find much about SPG is good thing for our PM and VVIPs  

It's a very old but real classic

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

My latest vid:

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> My latest vid:



Excellent work!

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## Koovie

Look at these guys, absolutely badass and no mercy for Talibanis. 

Thanks @Srinivas for the pic

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## Srinivas

Koovie said:


> Look at these guys, absolutely badass and no mercy for Talibanis.
> 
> Thanks @Srinivas for the pic



No problem mate

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## Abingdonboy



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## scarcry

looks like black dude jumped out of cod bo 2


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## Koovie



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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


>



Is it a Micro ???


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## Koovie

Sergi said:


> Is it a Micro ???



No, it just has a different holographic sight unlike the normal Tavor with the MARS sight.


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Is it a Micro ???




It is the CTAR (shortened barrel Tavor variant) as opposed to the standard TAR-21 that is in use by the PARA (SF) and some Garuds. 


The Micro-Tavor (MTAR/X-95) is in use with the BSF,CRPF and many police forces in India but is not in use by any military SF in India. 

TAR-21:







CTAR:







MTAR/X-95:





@Koovie mate, the sights have no bearing on the version of the Tavor you have.

The sights the users chose is completely up to them.

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## Sergi

Koovie said:


> No, it just has a different holographic sight unlike the normal Tavor with the MARS sight.



Mixup ??? 
Even the sights are same in that post 



Abingdonboy said:


> It is the CTAR (shortened barrel Tavor variant) as opposed to the standard TAR-21 that is in use by the PARA (SF) and some Garuds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CTAR:



CTAR advantage ??? Urban area ???


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Mixup ???
> Even the sights are same in that post


I think he meant that whilst the Tavors of the IA SF (and RR) come with MARS:











The IN,IAF,CAPFs and police forces have gone for the MEPRO MOR red-*** sights:











My understanding is the MEPRO MOR sights are cheaper and less complicated when compared to the MARS.


+interestingly the IA has fitted the MEPRO MOR sights onto some of their M4s!


Sergi said:


> CTAR advantage ??? Urban area ???



Yes, the CTAR has a smaller protruding barrel so in close confines it will be easier to operate with but it will still be considerably more accurate than other shortened variants of assault rifles like the M4 "commando". If you notice- the GARUDS operate a mix of CTAR, standard TAR-21s and GTARs (grenade launcher variant with the full length TAR-21 barrel) which gives the force a broad capability at ground level to work in any enviroment.

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## Koovie

PS: I know they are not Marcos, I just like the pic ^^

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


>



That's not a MARCO lol!


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## scarcry

what is it vbss team?


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## Capt.Popeye

scarcry said:


> what is it vbss team?



Sagar Suraksha Bal, a security force for the IN.

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## kurup

scarcry said:


> what is it vbss team?



SPB - Sagar Prahari Bal

Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Abingdonboy

scarcry said:


> what is it vbss team?


What he said:




kurup said:


> SPB - Sagar Prahari Bal
> 
> Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> That's not a MARCO lol!



^^ I know, I just liked the pic

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## kurup

Koovie said:


>



As @Koovie said this is a very nice picture .

If there is any PS experts try to replace the picture of MARCOS picture with the appropriate one.

I tried and I $uck at PS.............

PS : If any other nice picture of MARCOS can't be found , please use this one .There will be dozens of MARCOS pictures with all the goodies but none is kicka$$ like this one.


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## Koovie

@kurup These guys are definitely MARCOS

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## kurup

@Koovie

Yeah , I was looking for a standing close-up picture like the rest of SF.If there is one please share.

I searched for a long time and the one I posted was the only one I found . But no digital camo......

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> @Koovie
> 
> Yeah , I was looking for a standing close-up picture like the rest of SF.If there is one please share.
> 
> I searched for a long time and the one I posted was the only one I found . But no digital camo......




The MARCOs don't usually stand around giving the opportunity for themselves to be snapped. Sometimes it is unavoidable like with the pic above where the MARCOs were deployed to secure a naval helipad during Obama's visit.

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## Koovie

Can anyone ID the unit? (From the IA fanpage on FB) @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I think I can spot a skull on the patch...

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Can anyone ID the unit? (From the IA fanpage on FB)
> @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> I think I can spot a skull on the patch...


AFAIK the IA doesn't use mulit-cam, even for SFs, if I was going to place my money on it, I'd say they were members of the Maldives defence force (MNDF) who came to India a little while back (Exercise EKUVERIN-12)and trained with the Maratha Light Infantry.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...in-12-india-maldives-military-engagement.html


I would be happy to be proven wrong as I'd love to see the multi-cam in Indian service but I haven't heard of such use-as of yet.
@Koovie these FB "fan pages" have a habit of getting things widely wrong and mis-labeling pics.

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## whitefox011

that camo on tavor

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## scarcry

kullu photo purana hai


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## whitefox011

^ says the guy with 99thanks for his 201 posts look at me 69posts 92 thanks


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## scarcry

still more likes abe kullu mere bhai kaisa hai? 






special frontier force, the ghost in the shell.....

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## whitefox011

macchi now i have more likes vaise yaar my cell is not working call me on my landline lets make some plan for 22nd


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## Alshawi1234

Great info and images. They look bada*s


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## Koovie

Seychelles military personal undergoing training in an Indian SF school

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## scarcry

whitefox011 said:


> macchi now i have more likes vaise yaar my cell is not working call me on my landline lets make some plan for 22nd



How bout some movie man? Nepali ko bhi bula le! Pic sahi hai na?


----------



## Star Wars

Some old pics








Bruce lee training ?






Think Special 
Act Special
Be Special

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## quranak343

i like the indian forces.wow i proud of my country.


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## Dash

kurup said:


> As @Koovie said this is a very nice picture .
> 
> If there is any PS experts try to replace the picture of MARCOS picture with the appropriate one.
> 
> I tried and I $uck at PS.............
> 
> PS : If any other nice picture of MARCOS can't be found , please use this one .There will be dozens of MARCOS pictures with all the goodies but none is kicka$$ like this one.



The last picture of the 4 forces where it is written MARCOS are not MARCOS actually. You can see its guarding the ships and MARCOS dont do that. They are a part of some "Maritime Protection force"(dont know if I have got the name right here.


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## Abingdonboy

Passing Out Ceremony of a batch of Marine Commandos:

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## kurup

Dash said:


> The last picture of the 4 forces where it is written MARCOS are not MARCOS actually. You can see its guarding the ships and MARCOS dont do that. They are a part of some "Maritime Protection force"(dont know if I have got the name right here.



They are SPB --- Sagar Prahari Bal

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## Dash

kurup said:


> They are SPB --- Sagar Prahari Bal



There was a little doubt if they belonged to Navy or CG, can u clarify?


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## 45'22'

Dash said:


> There was a little doubt if they belonged to Navy or CG, can u clarify?



they belong to the Navy

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## kurup

Dash said:


> There was a little doubt if they belonged to Navy or CG, can u clarify?



Sagar Prahari Bal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Koovie

Has this been posted already??? Its from Lt Gen Prakash Katoch and has been published this month:

*Special Forces in India*


*Hunting Terrorists* 






Historically, Indian Special Forces have been used for direct action type of roles during conventional wars. The hierarchal understanding of trans-border employment of Special Forces in India is short distanced physical or direct type of actions executed on a unit/sub-unit basis to achieve battlefield victories. There is no concept of them being used abroad other than in conventional war. While Special Forces should be central to asymmetric response including against irregular forces, asymmetric warfare does not automatically equate to a physical attack. A physical attack is only the extreme and potentially most dangerous expression of asymmetric warfare. The key lies in achieving strategic objectives through application of modest resources with the essential psychological element. 

Indian history is replete with examples of special missions &#8211; from the Cholas to the Mauryas, from Shivaji to Rana Pratap and Maharaja Ranjit Singh and many others. In the aftermath of the Chinese aggression of 1962, independent India saw the advent of the Special Forces with establishment of the Special Frontier Force (SFF) amply covered in the media including during the 1971 Indo-Pak War and the conflict in Kargil in 1999 . In the Army, the initiative of raising a commando unit was taken in 1965 by Major Megh Singh with the blessings of the then Western Army Commander. 


*

Recently, the Naresh Chandra Committee recommended the establishment of a Special Forces Command&#8230; *


Over the years, a host of Special Forces have come up in India. Special Forces get mentioned periodically as part of counter-insurgency/counter-terrorist operations or events such as the United States Special Forces (USSF) raid that killed Osama-bin-Laden; but little has happened in India to optimise their potential in furtherance of national security objectives. Recently, the Naresh Chandra Committee recommended the establishment of a Special Forces Command. 



*Nomenclature &#8211; Special Forces *

The term &#8216;Special Forces&#8217; is often misunderstood. The word &#8220;Special&#8221; should be sufficient to understand that such forces are to be employed primarily for strategic tasks beyond national borders. In his book &#8216;The Idea of Pakistan&#8217;, Stephen P Cohen writes &#8220;The task of Special Forces is the proxy application of force at low and precisely calculated levels, the objective being to achieve some political effect, not a battlefield victory.&#8221; This fundamental concept is ignored in India perhaps because we still do not have a National Security Strategy and have not defined our National Security Objectives, leave aside a national level Concept for Employment of Special Forces. 

Ignorance and inability to grasp the strategic environment, its setting and compulsion under which such forces are employed, are evident. The impact of Special Forces operations is not well understood. Either their effects are overstated or fixated on tactical aspects of their missions. Keeping the military out of strategic decision making is one major reason. 



*
Conflicts in the 21st Century *


Warfare is no longer confined to the battlefield. Boundaries between war and no war are blurred by asymmetric wars that have no borders, no rules and no regulations. Psychological warfare imposes the largest penalty but affords the highest pay-offs. Successful psychological warfare demands integrated themes and subjects which need to be developed. In addition to causes of conflict such as territory, power and resources (water, energy and minerals) can become major flashpoints. 
*

The impact of Special Forces operations is not well understood&#8230; *

There is a heightened need for intelligence and deniable covert capabilities that ensure deniability of action for achieving strategic aims, both of which require the employment Special Forces. Transnational nature of threats and involvement of state actors in using sub-conventional conflicts have increased the complexity. Technology empowers terrorists to cause severe damage through cyber, financial and kinetic attacks. Acquisition of WMDs is a major concern. Asymmetric wars, of which terrorism and insurgencies are manifestations, will continue to dominate the conflict spectrum in the sub-continent albeit windows of conventional war under the NBC backdrop will remain. 

*
Security Concerns *

A two-and-half front war is a reality but the &#8216;half front&#8217; can enlarge with China-Pakistan surreptitiously fanning insurgencies in India. China-sponsored Nepalese Maoists are linked with Indian Maoists. Also, China is pumping weapons through the Kachen rebels in Myanmar to insurgents in Manipur and Indian Maoists. A namesake democracy in Pakistan and increasing radicalisation plus Chinese presence in Pakistan/*** with China&#8217;s support to Pakistan&#8217;s anti-India ****** policy will heighten the threat. Chinese stance on Arunachal and other Indian territories will, in all likelihood, harden with the capability gap widening exponentially between the PLA and Indian Military and the former getting more assertive. 



*Compact deadly sub unit *






he covert presence of Chinese Special Forces and intelligence agencies in Pakistan, ***, Nepal, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka as part of PLA construction companies is possible. The Chinese &#8220;String of Pearls&#8221; is being augmented with a &#8220;Ring of Islamic Radicalism&#8221; courtesy Pakistan&#8217;s LeT, latest target being Maldives. Elaborately established terror infrastructure in India by Pakistan over the years will make it more and more difficult to point a finger at the latter. 

Growing inter-dependence and inter-linking of terrorist groups and insurgents pan-India and their international links, particularly Islamic radicals and heightened asymmetric war including cyber war, activation of cyberspace and electromagnetic domains should be serious concerns. India must also manage social change ably without which the youth will polarise towards terrorism/insurgency. 

*
There is a heightened need for intelligence and deniable covert capabilities for achieving strategic aims&#8230; 

The Need 
*

Conflicts in recent years indicate that irregular/asymmetric forces have emerged with greater strategic value over conventional and even nuclear forces. We have failed to create deterrence against irregular forces relying only on diplomacy that by itself is not fully effective without integrating the military. Lack of strategic forethought has deterred us from exploiting the strategic potential of our Special Forces. India has suffered intelligence failures over decades. The recent discovery of some 11,000 Chinese in Pakistan/*** was courtesy the New York Times. 

If we have Special Forces operatives covertly deployed in areas of our strategic interest, we will not be blind to future threats. The US discovered inadequacy of technical intelligence when Pokhran II surprised them completely. That is the reason they have operatives inside Iran for past several years. Covert Special Forces deployment in areas of strategic interest will significantly enhance our capacity to deal with multiple contingencies. There is urgent need to develop publicised overt capabilities and deniable covert capabilities as deterrence against the irregular war thrust upon us. Plus the will to selectively demonstrate it to ensure its effectiveness is needed. Our Special Forces potential must be optimised and exploited to develop such capability. 

*
Special Forces in India *

Wikipedia lists some 30 odd organisations as Special Forces of India, mostly police organisations but what could be considered as Special Forces actually are 8xArmy Special Forces battalions (two more are to be raised), MARCOS of the Navy (about 700 plus may eventually grow to 2,000, plus case for a Marine Brigade is pending with the government), Garuds of Air Force, 2xSpecial Groups (SGs) of SFF under the Cabinet Secretariat, the Aviation Research Centre (ARC) under the Cabinet Secretariat and 2xSpecial Action Groups (SAGs) of NSG under MHA (5,000 plus+ expansion of NSG is underway). These forces have hardly been strategically used for politico-military missions across the border. 


*Conceptually, Special Forces should be employed to continuously &#8216;shape the battlefield&#8217;&#8230; 
*

Aside from routine UN missions, the only time India used Special Forces abroad was the three Special Forces units as part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) in Sri Lanka. The media often quotes parachute units as Special Forces, which is a misnomer. They are actually infantry battalions that have been trained for being delivered by parachutes. Upon landing, they operate as infantry battalions, holding ground till linked up. The combined strength of our Special Forces is around 20,000, much more than the uniformed strength of US Special Forces (currently 15,000) but not one tenth their capabilities. US SOCOM includes Psychological Operations and Civil Affairs Teams who are not uniformed personnel. With that strength, the USSF is deployed in 200 countries including India and we are milling around with a greater strength within our own country. 

*Concept *

Historically, Indian Special Forces have been used for direct action type of roles during conventional wars. The hierarchal understanding of trans-border employment of Special Forces in India is short distanced physical or direct type of actions executed on a unit/sub-unit basis to achieve battlefield victories. There is no concept of them being used abroad other than in conventional war. While Special Forces should be central to asymmetric response including against irregular forces, asymmetric warfare does not automatically equate to a physical attack. A physical attack is only the extreme and potentially most dangerous expression of asymmetric warfare. The key lies in achieving strategic objectives through application of modest resources with the essential psychological element. They are ideally suited to control faultlines of the adversaries without any signatures or with ambiguous signatures. 


*
No chance of a miss *






Special Forces do not create resistance movements but advice, train and assist resistance movements already in existence. In asymmetric settings, Special Forces have limitless pro-active employment possibilities to exploit dissidence; employ asymmetric approaches from the NBC sphere to psychological operations, information war, economic/technical/ financial war. In counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency, Special Forces can be used for intelligence, surveillance and psychological operations, rival/pseudo gang operations, infiltrating tanzeems, neutralising terrorist leaders, organisations, support groups, infrastructure, selective raids, ambushes, snatch operations and incident response operations. In out-of-area contingencies, they can assist airborne/conventional forces or may be called upon to perform politico-military missions such as providing assistance to third world nations, surgical strikes, recovery missions, prevent terrorist use of WMDs and provide humanitarian assistance. 

*
Special Forces cannot be mass produced and competent Special Forces cannot be created after emergencies arise&#8230; *

Conceptually, Special Forces should be employed to continuously &#8216;shape the battlefield&#8217; from conventional wars in nuclear backdrop to asymmetric and fourth generation wars. Their employment should be theatre/region specific and as force multipliers to complement tasks performed by conventional forces, entailing high risk, and high gain missions having minimum visibility with desired effect. Their strategic tasking should be in sync with national security objectives. Since tasking of Special Forces invariably includes Special Operations, Covert Operations and Special Missions, these itself provide the leeway to undertake virtually any strategic task. 

Core tasks of foreign Special Forces are direct action, special reconnaissance, foreign internal defence, unconventional warfare, counterterrorism and counter-proliferation of WMDs, civil affairs operations, psychological operations and information operations. It is significant to note that the USSF also undertakes undeclared tasks such as conducting proactive, sustained &#8220;man hunt&#8221; and disruption operations globally, building partner capacity in relevant ground, air and maritime capabilities in scores of countries on a steady-state basis, helping generate persistent ground, air and maritime surveillance and strike coverage over &#8220;under-governed&#8221; areas and littoral zones, and employing unconventional warfare against state-sponsored terrorism and trans-national terrorist groups globally. 

Additionally, in the Af-Pak region, the CIA had a 3,000-strong army of Counter Terrorism Pursuit Teams (CTPT) that have depleted in Pakistan post the Raymond Davies episode and the killing of Osama-bin-Laden. 


*
Manning *


Globally accepted Special Forces truths are &#8211; humans are more important than hardware; quality is better than quantity; Special Forces cannot be mass produced; and competent Special Forces cannot be created after emergencies arise. Regrettably, India has ignored these factors. Authorised expansion rate of SOCOM is 1.8 per cent annually though in 2011, this was hiked to 2.5 per cent in 2011, and now there is a bid for an addition of 3,000 which includes &#8216;support elements&#8217; due to increased responsibilities. 

*
Our Special Forces lack of quality manpower including officers&#8230;* 

Pakistan added the fourth SSG battalion only in recent years. India went in for a 120 per cent increase in the period 2001-2004 alone including converting three parachute battalions to Special Forces. The unprecedented expansion was resorted to by deliberately feeding the hierarchy that 20,000 USSF were operating in Iraq and Afghanistan, which was untrue since this included 82 and 101 AB Divisions of the US. Actually even in the peak period of USSF deployment only 90xOperation Detachments Alpha (ODAs) were actually used (each ODA is 10-12 strong). In terms of expansion, we are making the same mistake in the expansion of the NSG. 

Our Special Forces lack quality manpower including officers and shortages are shared with rest of the military, which implies that the significance of Special Forces is little understood. 

*
Stie from the Sky *






It is significant to note how seriously the USSF takes the issue of quality manpower. Take, for example, the personnel policies of the SEAL Team 6, which carried out the raid to kill Osama bin Laden. US Navy personnel volunteer for the SEALS and only those who make the cut are inducted. They serve in other SEAL teams for several years gaining operational experience. 

Out of this lot, volunteers then opt for SEAL Team 6. It means they are truly the best of the best. Their average age profile is 32 years, which shows they have the right mix of youth and experience. This also underlines the seriousness with which the US develops their SF for various roles. The success of Op Neptune Spear is a testimony to that. 


*Equipping*

Being under different chains of command, there is no commonality in equipment and no concept of &#8216;packaged equipping&#8217;, aside from Specialist/advanced training facilities being inadequate. Packaged equipment is essential because if a sub-unit does not have the complete authorised equipment, its combat capability will obviously be less. 


*The high level of sophisticated coordination and synergy to pull off Special Forces strategic missions is missing&#8230;*

The equipment that is lacking presently is in terms of light-weight, hand-held laser target designators, information system package to communicate with required entities to include voice, data, video streaming, light-weight long-range global communications to call multiple weapon strikes, state-of-the-art listening and surveillance devices, from miniature devices hand-held to MAVs, helicopter transportable all terrain vehicles, corner shots, goggles/devices to see through walls, hand-held EW weapons, state-of-the-art explosive devices with long-term timers, all-terrain light-weight clothing and load carriage, latest survival equipment, to name a few. 

*
Integration *

India is perhaps the only country whose Special Forces have no centralised command structure. This, plus the lack of strategic culture and prolonged employment in counter-insurgency leaves little scope for specialisation. Resultantly, Army Special Forces are more &#8216;Jack of all Trades&#8217;. MARCOS have limited prowess on land, GARUD are sans specialised air transportation units and their tasking duplicates the tasks of the Army Special Forces. 

Integrated and adequate intelligence is not institutionalised. Language training and proficiency is grossly inadequate. There is no concept of integrated or even dedicated air support. There is no concept of &#8216;support units&#8217; including civilians. The SAGs of NSG and SGs of SFF are not cohesive units since 33 per cent of their manpower is turned over annually. Amongst the various Special Forces there is little or no joint training. The high level of sophisticated coordination and synergy necessary between various political, military, intelligence agencies and other departments to pull off Special Forces strategic missions is missing. 

*
India is perhaps the only country whose Special Forces have no centralised command structure&#8230;* 


There is urgent need to educate and create macro conditions for Special Forces through measures such as creation of a national vision, joint doctrine, joint organisations and integrated intelligence support. 

What India needs is Special Forces for strategic tasks including deterrence against irregular and asymmetric warfare, Commando Forces for cross-border tactical tasks and within border tasks beyond the capability of regular infantry and Airborne Forces for rapid reaction and force projection within and outside India. 

To begin with, the Special Forces should be organised as a small 200 to 300 strong force with the highest regional specialisation, directly under the highest political authority since most politico-military missions would be without reference to the military because of the sensitive nature. Manpower should be drawn from existing Special Forces plus other all India avenues. They should be tasked with surveillance and target designation in areas of strategic interest, shaping asymmetric and conventional battlefield to Indian advantage, deterring opponents exploiting our faultlines, controlling faultlines of adversaries, undertaking information/psychological operations and unconventional warfare, anti-hijack, building partner capabilities with friendly countries and providing cutting edge for strategic force projection


*Warfare is no longer confined to the battlefield&#8230; *

The balance of the Commando Forces should be reorganised into an Integrated Commando Command directly under the CDS/Permanent Chairman COSC, integrating the Army Special Forces, MARCOS, Garuds, NSG and the SFF. 



*Conclusion*


There is an urgent need to create a deterrent against irregular and unconventional forces. Pro-active employment of Special Forces can help create such deterrence. While we may continue building military and political will, we must concurrently get on with building this capability.










Indian Strategic Studies: Special Forces in India

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## anyrandom

^^

The article shows the dismal level of planning in India. It shows that how the indian bureaucracy/babu class is averse to thinking.


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## Abingdonboy

My latest vid:

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> My latest vid:



Awesome dude! 

Make sure to share it on the FB fanpages as well

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Awesome dude!
> 
> Make sure to share it on the FB fanpages as well



Mate feel free to do this, I don't have FB.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate feel free to do this, I don't have FB.



I have sent a message, maybe the admin will see it

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## Abingdonboy

Cool mate, much appreciated.


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## Koovie

IA Paratroopers and American troops during Youdh Abhyas 2012.







Garuds

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Garuds



These are IA.

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## Koovie

*Someone who can replace the guy in the bottom right with.......................*






*this pic ???*

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## kurup



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## kurup

@Koovie : How about this ?? I am not a PS expert , so used MS paint .........

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## Koovie

kurup said:


> @Koovie : How about this ?? I am not a PS expert , so used MS paint .........




Nice work mate  

If you could replace that NSG and Garud operator with some better more "badass" pics it would be perfect 



Perhaps these ones???


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## kurup

Koovie said:


> Nice work mate
> 
> If you could replace that NSG and Garud operator with some better more "badass" pics it would be perfect



I will give a try .

Do you know the name of font used in that picture ?? Now I have to copy paste the name everytime from the old picture but if the name is known , then I can add the name from some online picture site and make the picture better ....................

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## RPK



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## Koovie

kurup said:


> I will give a try .
> 
> D*o you know the name of font used in that picture ?? N*ow I have to copy paste the name everytime from the old picture but if the name is known , then I can add the name from some online picture site and make the picture better ....................



I am absolutely no expert in this  But I did not notice the copy&paste job when I looked at your pic

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## RPK



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## RPK



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## kurup

*PARA SF*

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## Koovie

Simply love this assault landing by the Garuds

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## Jango

Koovie said:


> Simply love this assault landing by the Garuds



The IAF C-130J comes factory fitted with the FLIR or is it a detachable add on added by the IAF?

Any more info about it?


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## Capt.Popeye

nuclearpak said:


> The IAF C-130J comes factory fitted with the FLIR or is it a detachable add on added by the IAF?
> 
> Any more info about it?



That is a good question, though AFAIK the IAF added it to the specs. Since the IAF was looking for a Special Ops version of the C-130J


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## Jango

Capt.Popeye said:


> That is a good question, though AFAIK the IAF added it to the specs. Since the IAF was looking for a Special Ops version of the C-130J



FLIR Systems, Inc. - FLIR Systems Announces $7.2 Million Order for the Indian Air Force

Same as PAF, Star Safire III...


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## Koovie

nuclearpak said:


> FLIR Systems, Inc. - FLIR Systems Announces $7.2 Million Order for the Indian Air Force
> 
> Same as PAF, Star Safire III...



AFAIK the IAF added several highly sensitive equipment, because we did not want to sign Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) with the USA.














*Para SF*

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## whitefox011




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## Koovie

whitefox011 said:


>



They are not Indian"


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## Koovie



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## whitefox011

Koovie said:


> They are not Indian"



idk got the pic from airforce fb page btw how do u know they are not indian?


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## kurup

@Koovie : I made complete modifications and the final product is ........

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## Koovie

kurup said:


> @Koovie : I made complete modifications and the final product is ........




#Awesome job mate!!!!

Make sure to share it on the IAF FB fanpage 

https://www.facebook.com/IAFJaiHind?ref=stream

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## Dillinger

@kurup My favorite NSG pics 





















From the above:-

1) Nomex gloves.

2) Bpjs with molle webbing.

3) Picatinny rail adapters on smgs.

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## EzioAltaïr

kurup said:


> @Koovie : I made complete modifications and the final product is ........



Those are the finest-equipped soldiers I've seen in our whole army. As always the MARCOS appear a notch above the rest.



Dillinger said:


> @kurup My favorite NSG pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the above:-
> 
> 1) Nomex gloves.
> 
> 2) Bpjs with molle webbing.
> 
> 3) Picatinny rail adapters on smgs.



They are very well equipped, but they have to start replacing the MP5Ks. 9mm is simply not penetrative enough any more, and if we keep facing terrorists that are equipped with BPJs, MP5Ks will not be much use.

Also, I've questions about their equipment:

1. Is their radio hands-free?
2. Do they have NVGs in those visors?
3. What is the difference between the vests they're using compared to the IA?


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## Abingdonboy

EzioAltaïr;4126054 said:


> They are very well equipped, but they have to start replacing the MP5Ks. 9mm is simply not penetrative enough any more, and if we keep facing terrorists that are equipped with BPJs, MP5Ks will not be much use.
> 
> Also, I've questions about their equipment:
> 
> 1. Is their radio hands-free?
> 2. Do they have NVGs in those visors?
> 3. What is the difference between the vests they're using compared to the IA?



I agree the NSG should replace the 9mm MP5s as their primary weapon. Yes their main role is HR/CQB and here the MP5 is an excellent weapon. The fact is the "stopping power" of the 9mm is pretty poor. I think the NSG should start making the transition to the MP-5s direct descendant,the MP-7 (4.6mm), or set about going for a completely fresh tender for a SMG. Given the NSG's entire size is <10,000 (with the SAG comprising only ~2,000) the order should be cleared in no time. I think the X-95 could also be a good option and this weapon can fire the 5.56mm or 9mm depending on the NSG's needs and given the fact the CRPF has placed orders for 20,000+ not to mention all the police forces and CAPFs in India there will be no issue with logistical support. In fact the X-95 has a high likilihood of being the IA's next CQB weapon of choice so this is another 100,000+ order for sure. 
@EzioAltaïr mate, when are Indian forces, specifically the NSG, "facing terrorists that are equipped with BPJs"?


I don't think the NSG has ever faced such a scenario, but it does make sense to have contingencies for worst-case scenarios.
@EzioAltaïr I don't know if you are aware or not but the NSG has 1-2 operators with SIG-552 (5.56mm calibre rifles) in every stick (10-12 operators, an assault team) and 1 breacher with an automatic shotgun. 1-2 men will also have Tazers now. So it's not like if the NSG faced a BPJ wearing bad-guy that they'd be ineffective. Not to mention that the NSG operators are unbelievably well trained and are all incredible marksmen with their assigned weapons, given the chance the NSG men will drill 2 holes in the head of a bad guy before they even blink.

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## EzioAltaïr

Abingdonboy said:


> I agree the NSG should replace the 9mm MP5s as their primary weapon. Yes their main role is HR/CQB and here the MP5 is an excellent weapon. The fact is the "stopping power" of the 9mm is pretty poor. I think the NSG should start making the transition to the MP-5s direct descendant,the MP-7 (4.6mm), or set about going for a completely fresh tender for a SMG. Given the NSG's entire size is <10,000 (with the SAG comprising only ~2,000) the order should be cleared in no time. I think the X-95 could also be a good option and this weapon can fire the 5.56mm or 9mm depending on the NSG's needs and given the fact the CRPF has placed orders for 20,000+ not to mention all the police forces and CAPFs in India there will be no issue with logistical support. In fact the X-95 has a high likilihood of being the IA's next CQB weapon of choice so this is another 100,000+ order for sure.
> @EzioAltaïr mate, when are Indian forces, specifically the NSG, "facing terrorists that are equipped with BPJs"?
> 
> 
> I don't think the NSG has ever faced such a scenario, but it does make sense to have contingencies for worst-case scenarios.
> @EzioAltaïr I don't know if you are aware or not but the NSG has 1-2 operators with SIG-552 (5.56mm calibre rifles) in every stick (10-12 operators, an assault team) and 1 breacher with an automatic shotgun. 1-2 men will also have Tazers now. So it's not like if the NSG faced a BPJ wearing bad-guy that they'd be ineffective. Not to mention that the NSG operators are unbelievably well trained and are all incredible marksmen with their assigned weapons, given the chance the NSG men will drill 2 holes in the head of a bad guy before they even blink.



Funny. For some reason, I always thought the terrorists at 26/11 had BPJs on. Just realized that they didn't. Well, I retract that statement.

Also, I know they have the SIG commando weapons, but that is an assault rifle, and not always ideal in very close CQB. MP5 is a good weapon in everything except stopping power, which it's successor covers up. BTW, what do you think of the Uzi and the MSMC? How do you think they measure up against the MP-7?


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## Koovie

EzioAltaïr;4126300 said:


> Funny. For some reason, I always thought the terrorists at 26/11 had BPJs on. Just realized that they didn't. Well, I retract that statement.
> 
> Also, I know they have the SIG commando weapons, but that is an assault rifle, and not always ideal in very close CQB. MP5 is a good weapon in everything except stopping power, which it's successor covers up.* BTW, what do you think of the Uzi and the MSMC? How do you think they measure up against the MP-7?*



The UZI wont be able to penetrate body armor as well. 

The MP 7 as you said can defeat penetrate body armor much easier. 





The MSMC is still in trials and has not been in operational use yet. Like Abingdonboy said, the NSG should go for the X95 which is already in large use in Indian military and central police units.

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## Koovie

I think many men in the NSG would be interested to get the Tavor series for the NSG since many come from the Parachute regiment, CRPF or BSF which use the Tavor family extensively.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ex-SAMPRITI-III(Indo-Bangla)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

This pic is of a guy from Indian Reserve Battalion...can someone share what is the role of IRB?







P.S-I know they are not SF...but this is the best thread to discuss this.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Randoms

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Randoms



Thank God that these days are gone 

But nice find!

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## ExtraOdinary



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This pic is of a guy from Indian Reserve Battalion...can someone share what is the role of IRB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S-I know they are not SF...but this is the best thread to discuss this.


 A unit of

Mizoram Armed Police

Mizoram Armed Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Good to see you back on here bro!

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## mirage2K

Abingdonboy said:


> A unit of
> 
> Mizoram Armed Police
> 
> Mizoram Armed Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good to see you back on here bro!



nice to see multi-cams in service with CAPFs

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## Koovie

mirage2K said:


> nice to see multi-cams in service with CAPFs



Many many units use them now here, except of the Army.

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Many many units use them now here, except of the Army.



IIRC the Garuds tried Multi-cam out. Don't know what happened with that.


Also CRPF uses Multi-cam IIRC.


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> One of them looks familiar ... Isnt the guy (2nd from left) Col SSS. ?



Lol @ the used plastic bottles...


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol @ the used plastic bottles...



Lol at the guy making cheap comments like this at a 11 year old picture.

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## kbd-raaf

^

They are used to make the pack heavier for training purposes. Sometimes they use sand, but mostly water. Over in 'straya, the SAS hopefuls do the same thing in order to meet pack weight requirements.

Let me assure you, any deficiencies you see w.r.t to the Indian Armed Forces in terms of equipment are either already amended or are in the process of such.

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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Abingdonboy said:


> Lol at the guy making cheap comments like this at a 11 year old picture.



Thanks for pointing that out Abingdon. I mistook the gun in the hands of first soldier in the back as Tavor. My mistake. Its really an old one.

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## Abingdonboy

kbd-raaf said:


> ^
> 
> They are used to make the pack heavier for training purposes. Sometimes they use sand, but mostly water. Over in 'straya, the SAS hopefuls do the same thing in order to meet pack weight requirements.
> 
> Let me assure you, any deficiencies you see w.r.t to the Indian Armed Forces in terms of equipment are either already amended or are in the process of such.



100% agree.


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## EyelessInGaza

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol @ the used plastic bottles...



You don't much understand the armed forces, far less backpacking, do you? 

Perhaps designer shoes with a tasteful colour co-ordinated weaponry would have been better?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

EyelessInGaza said:


> You don't much understand the armed forces, far less backpacking, do you?
> 
> Perhaps designer shoes with a tasteful colour co-ordinated weaponry would have been better?



Cantines and water bottles are a standard issue for any professional army.


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## kbd-raaf

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Cantines and water bottles are a standard issue for any professional army.



You didn't even read my reply to your post did you?

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## EyelessInGaza

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Cantines and water bottles are a standard issue for any professional army.



Really....so, based on your remarks, it's ok if I nitpick with your misspelling of use of the word 'canteen' to make a general point on your literacy?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

EyelessInGaza said:


> Really....so, based on your remarks, it's ok if I nitpick with your misspelling of use of the word 'canteen' to make a general point on your literacy?



Dude it was a type.. no need to act like a kid...

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude it was a type.. no need to act like a kid...



No need to come on a perfeclty peaceful thread, pic up one little detail from an 11 year old pic and then use it to troll like the likes of @Pakistani nationlist have done in the past. This thread just doesn't need it.



Wanna know the context of the pic you are so interested in much ?





> ''Hard work pays,'' quipped Captain Krishnadas after his team secured the first position at the 'Exercise Airborne Africa - 2002' at Botswana, beating 28 teams from 12 countries. In the simulated real-war situation at Botswana, the Indian team emerged 'overall winners' at the June 8-11 'Endurance, Navigation and Evacuation' event in which participants from Botswana, France, Malawi, Malaysia, Senegal, South Africa, Swaziland, Tanzania, UK, USA and Zimbabwe took part. The Indian team also won most of the 'individual medals'. Four others &#8212; Ghana, Lisotho, Namibia and Zambia &#8212; participated as 'Observers'.
> 
> While the Botswana Defence Force (BDF) came second and the South African Defence Forces (SANDF) third in the overall ranking, the second India team lead by Major Ranade came 15th in the event. The three-day annual event hosted by Botswana, and initiated by the South African Defence Forces (SANDF) in 2001, had India participating for the first time after General L M Fisher, Commander, Botswana Defence Force (BDF) invited it during his February visit to this country.
> 
> Led by Major Animish Ranade and Captain T R Krishnadas, the two Indian teams consisted of four officers and eight other ranks drawn from the Indian Parachute Regiment (Special Forces). The 'competition' comprised of a 35-km 'Endurance March', a 10-km Navigation Exercise, a 10-km Speed March, Casualty Evacuation of 10 kilometres and Combat Shooting of Rifle/Pistol, along with Observation and Surveillance and two Parachute Jumps, based on a point system that was matched with time taken by a team.
> 
> Attributing his team's success to ''real life experience got through fighting insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir and the North-East'', Captain Krishnadas said this helped them more than the 'practice' others teams went through before participating in the 'challenge'.
> 
> On what the team learnt from the 'participation', Major Ranade said: ''It was an eye-opener for us. The 'Westerners' whom we perceived as 'real toughies', in spite of being physically and equipment-wise pretty superior, proved 'lacking in mettle' when it came to 'mental challenge' in real-life conditions.'' &#8220;Our spirit of sacrifice, mental toughness and experience paid off,'' he added. The event organised to test the 'physical fitness, mental robustness and the will to endure under adverse conditions' was mainly to foster goodwill and improve relations between the airborne units of the participating nations.



Indian special forces worlds toughest





> *Mention &#8216;Special Forces&#8217; and the intrepid Israelis, the gung-ho Americans or the secretive British come to mind. But, it appears that it is the Indians who are the toughest of them all. This is what a gruelling contest determined last week.
> The Israelis were not there, but a team of India&#8217;s 10 Special Forces (SF), led by Captain Krishnadas, outshone their counterparts from the US, South Africa, U.K., France, hosts Botswana and a clutch of African nations in the Kalahari desert.
> 
> A proud Special Forces officer says this is all the more creditable since the teams, each comprising of an officer, a non-commissioned officer and three paratroopers &#8220;were pulled out of active duty and given just two months to prepare.&#8221; This is the first time India has been invited to participate in the event.* Last year&#8217;s competition was won by the South African Special Forces.
> 
> The event required a trek of 87 kms over three days with full combat load of 50 kg, all the activity being conducted under the desert sun during the day. The contest was kicked off on June 8 by a paradrop of the teams close to the border with Namibia. The events then progressively moved them east towards the Okavango Delta.
> 
> Here the team led by Major Animish Ranade suffered a mishap at the outset when Commando Mool Singh&#8217;s parachute did not open and his emergency parachute landed him so hard that he fractured his ankle. Despite the mishap that cost the team points, it won the individual prize in the 35 kms endurance march that followed.
> 
> On June 9, Capt Krishandas&#8217;s team, scored with the individual prize for the navigation segment where the commandos have to move through 20 kms of trackless desert with just a compass, Ranade&#8217;s team stood second. This was topped by a casualty evacuation exercise that required them to carry a 50 kg deadweight, simulating a casualty, for 10 kms. Krishandas&#8217; team stood first and Ranade&#8217;s second. On the last day the teams did a 17 kms speed march and Krishandas&#8217; team again scored a first.
> 
> The Indians performed well in the other elements of the competition as well. These included a rifle and pistol firing competition, a 400 metre an observation lane exercise requiring them to spot seven targets and a final 5 kms home run that makes the grand finale of the gathering.
> 
> A senior officer told TNN that such competitions &#8220;which deal with our core business,&#8221; are a great boost for the professional elan of the force. India currently has four SF units that have traditionally been asked to do the toughest jobs in the battlefield.
> 
> Currently they specialise in counter-terrorist work where using their own intelligence, they operate independently against terrorist concentrations in remote mountain and jungle regions in Kashmir and the Northeast.



Who has the best Special Forces ?, page 26

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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Abingdonboy said:


> No need to come on a perfeclty peaceful thread, pic up one little detail from an 11 year old pic and then use it to troll like the likes of @Pakistani nationlist have done in the past. This thread just doesn't need it.
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna know the context of the pic you are so interested in much ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian special forces world&#8217;s toughest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who has the best Special Forces ?, page 26



Great find bro. Nice article.

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## Roybot

Abingdonboy said:


> No need to come on a perfeclty peaceful thread, pic up one little detail from an 11 year old pic and then use it to troll like the likes of @Pakistani nationlist have done in the past. This thread just doesn't need it.



DESERT FIGHTER is Pakistani Nationalist!

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## Koovie

Garud Commandos

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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I saw this last year but didnt post it as i thought it might be a risk to security.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I saw this last year but didnt post it as i thought it might be a risk to security.



Hmm, I'll have to redact certain parts.


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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



That's better:

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## Koovie

*Congratulations @kurup  

Your pic is on the Indian Army fanpage.... 6,000 likes and going up 
*

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....98977928070.88732.87167763070&type=1&theater

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## kurup

Koovie said:


> *Congratulations @kurup
> 
> Your pic is on the Indian Army fanpage.... 6,000 likes and going up
> *
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....98977928070.88732.87167763070&type=1&theater




Awesome .........








@Koovie : Although you asked me share it , I shy away from posting the picture ...... 

post &#3354;&#3398;&#3375;&#3405;&#3364;&#3390;&#3453; &#3342;&#3368;&#3405;&#3377;&#3398; identity &#3342;&#3379;&#3393;&#3370;&#3405;&#3370;&#3330; &#3349;&#3363;&#3405;&#3359;&#3393;&#3370;&#3391;&#3359;&#3391;&#3349;&#3405;&#3349;&#3393;&#3374;&#3378;&#3405;&#3378;&#3403; .

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## RPK



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## RPK




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## RPK

Indo-Bangladesh Special Force contingents mark Sampriti-III

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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


> Indo-Bangladesh Special Force contingents mark Sampriti-III


Mate these are PARA (AIRBORNE) not PARA (SF) on the Indian side.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate these are PARA (AIRBORNE) not PARA (SF) on the Indian side.



Yup..7 PARA!

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yup..7 PARA!



Indeed- my uncle (who is in the UK right now) has just retired from the very same unit!

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## Abingdonboy

+ he's got some GREAT stories!

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> + he's got some GREAT stories!



Share with us whenever and whatever you can


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> Share with us whenever and whatever you can



Buddy, I've refrained even mentioning him whilst he was in service (which was until literally a few weeks ago) purely to protect Op Sec, he was always VERY careful with what he told me and me being here in the UK and him in India (and serving) meant I didn't see him much so didn't get all that out of him. Now he's here for a while I'm gonna try and get as much out of him as possible but let me tell you- he's a hard nut to crack! 


He's already shot me down a few times on the subject, even though he's now retired (on medical grounds). But the little I have got out of him is some interesting stuff! 


Also I'd prefer not disclosing such info in an open forum like this, if you'd like- email me at abingdonboy1@gmail.com with your email address and I'll tell you what I can. 



+ he wasn't SF btw.

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Buddy, I've refrained even mentioning him whilst he was in service (which was until literally a few weeks ago) purely to protect Op Sec, he was always VERY careful with what he told me and me being here in the UK and him in India (and serving) meant I didn't see him much so didn't get all that out of him. Now he's here for a while I'm gonna try and get as much out of him as possible but let me tell you- he's a hard nut to crack!
> 
> 
> He's already shot me down a few times on the subject, even though he's now retired (on medical grounds). But the little I have got out of him is some interesting stuff!
> 
> 
> Also I'd prefer not disclosing such info in an open forum like this, if you'd like- email me at abingdonboy1@gmail.com with your email address and I'll tell you what I can.
> 
> 
> 
> + he's not SF btw.


If you can't share then its ok if you say NO. I won't insists


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## Abingdonboy

Sergi said:


> If you can't share then its ok if you say NO. I won't insists



Mate, I'll share the little I can- just email me like I said!

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## Sergi

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate, I'll share the little I can- just email me like I said!



Ok. I will

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## sid426

One of my uncles spent a stint in NSG (51 SAG) , now he is back in the Army..He is coming to my hometown this 27th for my marriage.. Will surely share the anecdotes with you..if he shares anything..

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## RPK



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## Dillinger

@Abingdonboy @Ayush @samantk @arp2041 @kurup @Koovie 






Notice something? 

Hint:- EOTech

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## Ayush

EOTECH must be related to optics..but cant notice anything in particular..

though the old style chhadi,which the old man is holding looks cool..
@Dillinger

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## Dillinger

Ayush said:


> EOTECH must be related to optics..but cant notice anything in particular..
> 
> though the old style chhadi,which the old man is holding looks cool..
> @Dillinger



Lt.Gen KT. Parnaik sir, Oh I hope someone would have handed him the responsibility for the stand off right now....unlike the present situation where the area is under ITBP/MEA mandate...

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## SamantK

Dillinger said:


> @Abingdonboy @Ayush @samantk @arp2041 @kurup @Koovie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice something?
> 
> Hint:- EOTech



The soldier with the gun on the right, his gun does look like it has EOtech. When did we start using EOtech? @Dillinger


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## Dillinger

samantk said:


> The soldier with the gun on the right, his gun does look like it has EOtech. When did we start using EOtech? @Dillinger



Our Paras and SF use it...usually in conjunction with the M-4s, like the one that Para is holding.

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## Abingdonboy

Dillinger said:


> Our Paras and SF use it...usually in conjunction with the M-4s, like the one that Para is holding.



I'm thinking this PARA is part of the COAS's security detail.


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## kurup

Can somebody identify these soldiers ?? Regulars or PARA SF


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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> Can somebody identify these soldiers ?? Regulars or PARA SF


I'm pretty sure they are PARA (SF). 

There's an outside chance they are PARA (Airborne) but AFAIK they aren't.

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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


>



Mate this has nothing to do with SFs. The instructor is some martial arts wannabe who's not served a day in his life. The guy he is training are state police.


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## third eye

"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."

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## Abingdonboy

third eye said:


> "This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."



Who is the SF mate?

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## third eye

Abingdonboy said:


> Who is the SF mate?



Capt Manish Singh, Shaurya Chakra, 9 SF. 

Another image of this this brave heart with the Chief.

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## Abingdonboy

third eye said:


> Capt Manish Singh, Shaurya Chakra, 9 SF.
> 
> Another image of this this brave heart with the Chief.



Have you got the story behind his injury/heroism? I can't seem to find anything.


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## third eye

Abingdonboy said:


> Have you got the story behind his injury/heroism? I can't seem to find anything.



IC-74882F Lieutenant Manish Singh
9th Battalion, The Parachute Regiment (Special Forces)

25 September, 2012

Lieutenant Manish Singh 9th Battalion, The Parachute Regiment (Special Forces), Shaurya Chakra
Lieutenant Manish Singh is troop commander with 9th Battalion the Parachute Regiment since 01 Apr 2011.

As part of search and destroy operation of 30 RR at general area of Kupwara District in Jammu and Kashmir on 25 September 2012, his squad was tasked to track escaping terrorists through terraced maize fields. During the search, a terrorist suddenly opened indiscriminate fire injuring Lieutenant Manish Singh and pinning down his squad. 

In a display of extreme courage and utter disregard for his own safety, despite his injuries, Lt Manish crawled forward and kept the terrorist pinned down. During the encounter, the officer displayed leadership of the highest order in refusing to be evacuated and notwithstanding his grievous injuries and blood loss, held on to his position. 

Finally as the terrorist charged upon him, he shot him dead at near point blank range. His courageous action ensured the safety of his men and ruled out collateral damage to civilian houses.

For his act of showing courage of exemplary order, conspicuous gallantry and outstanding leadership in the highest traditions of the Indian Army Lieutenant Manish Singh is conferred for the award of &#8220;SHAURYA CHAKRA&#8221;.

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## Abingdonboy

third eye said:


> IC-74882F Lieutenant Manish Singh
> 9th Battalion, The Parachute Regiment (Special Forces)
> 
> 25 September, 2012
> 
> Lieutenant Manish Singh 9th Battalion, The Parachute Regiment (Special Forces), Shaurya Chakra
> Lieutenant Manish Singh is troop commander with 9th Battalion the Parachute Regiment since 01 Apr 2011.
> 
> As part of search and destroy operation of 30 RR at general area of Kupwara District in Jammu and Kashmir on 25 September 2012, his squad was tasked to track escaping terrorists through terraced maize fields. During the search, a terrorist suddenly opened indiscriminate fire injuring Lieutenant Manish Singh and pinning down his squad.
> 
> In a display of extreme courage and utter disregard for his own safety, despite his injuries, Lt Manish crawled forward and kept the terrorist pinned down. During the encounter, the officer displayed leadership of the highest order in refusing to be evacuated and notwithstanding his grievous injuries and blood loss, held on to his position.
> 
> Finally as the terrorist charged upon him, he shot him dead at near point blank range. His courageous action ensured the safety of his men and ruled out collateral damage to civilian houses.
> 
> For his act of showing courage of exemplary order, conspicuous gallantry and outstanding leadership in the highest traditions of the Indian Army Lieutenant Manish Singh is conferred for the award of &#8220;SHAURYA CHAKRA&#8221;.

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## SR-91

I salute you lieutenant,may God Bless You!!!

In India we all sleep well at night knowing that men like you are there to keep us safe..

"JAI HIND"......I only wish it had a better ending

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## Mike_Brando

Abingdonboy said:


> A unit of
> 
> Mizoram Armed Police
> 
> Mizoram Armed Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Good to see you back on here bro!


mate I.R.B. is a force whichg has been raised by the state and 75% of its funds come from the centre.actually its a kind of a state paramilitary force which is under state supervision and control.these battalions were raised after 2000 in nearly every state as per the direction of the G.O.I. and every state police force has multiple I.R.B. battalions in their disposal.now the interesting thing is that although it is under the state supervision the G.O.I. has the power to deploy these battalions at times of need like general election,assembly election or for counter-insurgency purpose.they have been trained at the C.R.P.F. academies and i have read it somewhere(sorry i couldn't find the source) that there were 24 such battalions active as of 2008 and there are plans to raise another 30-50 battalions in the future.

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## Mike_Brando

Dillinger said:


> @Abingdonboy @Ayush @samantk @arp2041 @kurup @Koovie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice something?
> 
> Hint:- EOTech


bhai did you notice the jawan standing behind the Lt. General!is he carrying a M-4A1 A.R. or a M-16A2 A.R.?ddn't know that the Para(SF) use M-16A2


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## mirage2K

Mike_Brando said:


> bhai did you notice the jawan standing behind the Lt. General!is he carrying a M-4A1 A.R. or a M-16A2 A.R.?ddn't know that the Para(SF) use M-16A2



i supposed thats an M4 carbine


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Indo-Seychelles Exercise(Nahan)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

(for those who havent watched it)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...t-have-special-forces-model-like-us-does.html


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Guys check this out...(Chinese Snow Leopards)

[video]http://tv.cntv.cn/video/C38987/ab67cfbd18e544509a1f9e03ae1c762c[/video]


Very different training than we get to see.I would say that i would definitely rate SSG over them anyday.Room intervention techniques are very very different too.

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## Koovie

Mike_Brando said:


> bhai did you notice the jawan standing behind the Lt. General!is he carrying a M-4A1 A.R. or a M-16A2 A.R.?ddn't know that the Para(SF) use M-16A2



Paratrooper use the M4 for years now to supplement the Tar 21s.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG





















(sorry if the pics are not clear)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I have a question...

Like PARA SF is responsible for Army Chief's security similarly is MARCOS and GARUDS responsible for Naval and Air Force Chief's security?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have a question...
> 
> Like PARA SF is responsible for Army Chief's security similarly is MARCOS and GARUDS responsible for Naval and Air Force Chief's security?



Doubtful IMHO, AFAIK they are protected by their respective military police units. I feel sooner rather than later the PARA (SF) should also be pulled off VVIP protection duties- waste of their time and talent.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Doubtful IMHO, AFAIK they are protected by their respective military police units. I feel sooner rather than later the PARA (SF) should also be pulled off VVIP protection duties- waste of their time and talent.



MP units are not exactly bodyguards.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> MP units are not exactly bodyguards.



But then neither are SFs! The MP units are given special training by SFs and NSG/SPG to do their job as well as having specilised equipment/weapons. They are much more suitable to do this job than SFs for sure!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> But then neither are SFs! The MP units are given special training by SFs and NSG/SPG to do their job as well as having specilised equipment/weapons. They are much more suitable to do this job than SFs for sure!



PARA SF officers have taken the VIP protection course from aborad many time and so have the MARCOS but the same cannot be said about the MP.The pic i posted of a MARCO without shirt posing with an AK ha also completed VIP protection course.


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## Koovie



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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


>



Doubt this is SF but a cool pic nonetheless!!

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## Roybot

INSAS looks badass

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> India&#8217;s capability to conduct Special Operations is severely limited at present. The SOF is with the Army and Navy, while the delivery platforms are with the Air Force. The external intelligence agencies have no coherence.



The author Air Marshal Narayan Menon doesnt count Garuds as a true Special force and says:-



> Indian Army has highly trained Para-commandos from the Parachute regiments and MARCOS or marine commandos from the Indian Navy. IAF has the GARUDS trained mainly for assets protection and for specific tasks during conflict situations.




India&#8217;s Special Operations Capability » Indian Defence Review


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The author Air Marshal Narayan Menon doesnt count Garuds as a true Special force and says:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India&#8217;s Special Operations Capability » Indian Defence Review


I find myself disagreeing with all these retd senior brass who have had no service in SFs- they all seem to be coming to wrong conclusions, making false or inaccurate statements and seem to have an outdated mindset (which is understandable given when these retd brass joind up). 

I don't see any articles from recently retired SFs who know exactly what the current status quo is and what the ground realities of the Indian SOFs are. 


And I don't know what you'd call the Garuds if not an SF- this is what they declare themselves to be, train extensively to be and, in my eyes, ARE. These aren't some wannabes, they train for close to 2 years in almost every imaginable SF warfare technique and for someone to turn around and say they aren't SF is incredibly insulting for them. Yes they are, as a unit, less execpereinced than the MARCOs or PARA (SF) but then the unit is less than a decade old.

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> I find myself disagreeing with all these retd senior brass who have had no service in SFs- they all seem to be coming to wrong conclusions, making false or inaccurate statements and seem to have an outdated mindset (which is understandable given when these retd brass joind up).
> 
> I don't see any articles from recently retired SFs who know exactly what the current status quo is and what the ground realities of the Indian SOFs are.
> 
> 
> And I don't know what you'd call the Garuds if not an SF- this is what they declare themselves to be, train extensively to be and, in my eyes, ARE. These aren't some wannabes, they train for close to 2 years in almost every imaginable SF warfare technique and for someone to turn around and say they aren't SF is incredibly insulting for them. Yes they are, as a unit, less execpereinced than the MARCOs or PARA (SF) but then the unit is less than a decade old.



AM Menon is not very wrong. While the IAF Garuds are trained to SF standards; they are not SF. Does even the MoD designate them as SF? The reason(s) for their raising is different.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I find myself disagreeing with all these retd senior brass who have had no service in SFs- they all seem to be coming to wrong conclusions, making false or inaccurate statements and seem to have an outdated mindset (which is understandable given when these retd brass joind up).
> 
> I don't see any articles from recently retired SFs who know exactly what the current status quo is and what the ground realities of the Indian SOFs are.
> 
> 
> And I don't know what you'd call the Garuds if not an SF- this is what they declare themselves to be, train extensively to be and, in my eyes, ARE. These aren't some wannabes, they train for close to 2 years in almost every imaginable SF warfare technique and for someone to turn around and say they aren't SF is incredibly insulting for them. Yes they are, as a unit, less execpereinced than the MARCOs or PARA (SF) but then the unit is less than a decade old.



I too would diagree with these retired senior officers on most things relating to SF but one thing they always rightly point out is that we might have the men and the skills but as long as there is no backing up by the Leaders of this country nothing can be done .Technology is another great point they make.Op Geronimo wont have been possible without the technology involved.

OTOH i agree Garuds are a true SF and i am quite impressed by their skills and they are on the right track.


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## Abingdonboy

Capt.Popeye said:


> AM Menon is not very wrong. While the IAF Garuds are trained to SF standards; they are not SF. Does even the MoD designate them as SF? The reason(s) for their raising is different.



I'm pretty sure the MoD designates them SFs and the IAF does for sure. I don't think they'd just be allowed to wear the "SPECIAL FORCES" tag on their uniforms if this wasn't sanctioned from the very highest authority. I agree their mission profiles are very different to the typical MARCOs or PARA (SF) ones but the is by design- they aren't meant to be just another PARA (SF) btn, they have a very specific role in war and peace time. However their training and abilities are almost identical to the MARCOs and PARA (SF) (excluding the most specific missions the PARA (SF) and MARCOs take part in) as they attend many of the same schools the PARA (SF) and MARCOs do!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Capt.Popeye said:


> AM Menon is not very wrong. While the IAF Garuds are trained to SF standards; they are not SF. Does even the MoD designate them as SF? The reason(s) for their raising is different.



But Sir,The SF tab is not given for free to anyone.I agree their tasks might be limited but they are only 10 yrs old.

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm pretty sure the MoD designates them SFs and the IAF does for sure. I don't think they'd just be allowed to wear the "SPECIAL FORCES" tag on their uniforms if this wasn't sanctioned from the very highest authority. I agree their mission profiles are very different to the typical MARCOs or PARA (SF) ones but the is by design- they aren't meant to be just another PARA (SF) btn, they have a very specific role in war and peace time. However their training and abilities are almost identical to the MARCOs and PARA (SF) (excluding the most specific missions the PARA (SF) and MARCOs take part in) as they attend many of the same schools the PARA (SF) and MARCOs do!



I do not agree with those points in totality. Neither the training nor the wearing of the SF Tags will decide that they are going to be designated with SF tasks. 
As I said earlier; the reason(s) for their raising is different.
And are you sure that MoD designates them as SF; for SF tasking?


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


>



I'm pretty sure these are CRPF COBRAs but anyway cool to see the Indian made and designed INSAS UBGL in service.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Koovie



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## kurup

^^^^^ Garud ?????


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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> ^^^^^ Garud ?????



Indeed he is!

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## David James




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## David James



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Identified as MARCOs but I'm not convinced:



Neither am i...i wish they were MARCOS.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Neither am i...i wish they were MARCOS.


That's the thing- the MARCOs have all this gear- rebreathers, MP5s etc so could easily be MARCOs.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> That's the thing- the MARCOs have all this gear- rebreathers, MP5s etc so could easily be MARCOs.



US Marines acc. to one site...Expand it to see white skin.


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Identified as MARCOs but I'm not convinced:



The FB pages name says it all^^

They are Polish SF

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> The FB pages name says it all^^
> 
> They are Polish SF



Thanks for the info!

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## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> Thanks for the info!



Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno Manewrowego

JW GROM, Poland.

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## Ghora

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> US Marines acc. to one site...Expand it to see white skin.



Why the guy on the front-left carrying a _chatri_ ???

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ghora said:


> Why the guy on the front-left carrying a _chatri_ ???








OR

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## Koovie

Ghora said:


> Why the guy on the front-left carrying a _chatri_ ???




No these are swim fins

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> No these are swim fins



Yup...you are right.Its an illusion.I felt its an umbrella weapon.

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## Ghora

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> OR



Good one ... Reminds me of Johnny ENglish Reborn climax scene

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ARMY SF Martial Arts training video

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## Koovie



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## hkdas

anybody knows what is the dropout rate in MARCOS selection?


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> anybody knows what is the dropout rate in MARCOS selection?



Unknown but it is rumored to be ~85-95%.


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## Abingdonboy

IAF GARUDs:

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## Water Car Engineer



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


>



Garuds are using Carl Gustav...I guess going by the nature of their ops Shipon would be better.


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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


>



GREAT PICS @Water Car Engineer!!! Got anymore??



All in all the Garud are pretty well-equipped and I'm glad to see the Spetnez scooter-like helmet is on the way out for them.

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## Abingdonboy

An older pic of Garuds:

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Dandpatta

Ahhhh !!! Those different camou schemes for each soldier !!! One can see 4 different patterns on their tactical trousers.



Abingdonboy said:


> An older pic of Garuds:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dandpatta said:


> Ahhhh !!! Those different camou schemes for each soldier !!! One can see 4 different patterns on their tactical trousers.



Yup..Indian armed forces camo is in a mess.You can see 3 types of camo out of which the guy on the extreme left is weaing Indian Army camo..the ones on theright are wearing an old Indian Army camo and the guy in the centre is wearing what Garuds mostly wear these days.

I am hoping for F-INSAS to solve this problem for the Army to some extent.

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## Dandpatta

I think the point is not about FINSAS solving the problem. The problem lies (acutely) with soldiers having to buy their own uniforms from different military vendors . There are countless pictures - not only of Garuds but of other regular army units wearing different patterns and this needs to be addressed soon. Just a few days back someone posted pictures of an army unit walking back after a mission in Kashmir and each one of them seemed to have his own personalised outfit. This year's 26th Jan parade had one picture of our para - one soldier wearing a different trouser pattern than the others. 

I don't know how the supply of REGULAR CAMOUFLAGE uniforms is managed in other armies as big as India's but I have widely come across a lot of ex-personnel and serving members in the Indian Army esp. that they have to buy uniforms from vendors. As a civilian , I am a bit dumbfounded.

*Nevertheless, I salute these soldiers for getting jobs done regardless of what they wear ! *



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yup..Indian armed forces camo is in a mess.You can see 3 types of camo out of which the guy on the extreme left is weaing Indian Army camo..the ones on theright are wearing an old Indian Army camo and the guy in the centre is wearing what Garuds mostly wear these days.
> 
> I am hoping for F-INSAS to solve this problem for the Army to some extent.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dandpatta said:


> I think the point is not about FINSAS solving the problem. The problem lies (acutely) with soldiers having to buy their own uniforms from different military vendors . There are countless pictures - not only of Garuds but of other regular army units wearing different patterns and this needs to be addressed soon. Just a few days back someone posted pictures of an army unit walking back after a mission in Kashmir and each one of them seemed to have his own personalised outfit. This year's 26th Jan parade had one picture of our para - one soldier wearing a different trouser pattern than the others.
> 
> I don't know how the supply of REGULAR CAMOUFLAGE uniforms is managed in other armies as big as India's but I have widely come across a lot of ex-personnel and serving members in the Indian Army esp. that they have to buy uniforms from vendors. As a civilian , I am a bit dumbfounded.
> 
> *Nevertheless, I salute these soldiers for getting jobs done regardless of what they wear ! *



Look,What i believe is that F-INSAS will bring in a digi-camo for the IA and since digi camo requires technology and designing it may have copyrights so that these vendors wont be able to copy it.Even if thats not the case the Army should take actions after inducting F-INSAS so that soldiers dont go to these vendors and buy any camo of their choice.

The problem is that the IA doesnt provide soldiers with enough cloth for a year's uniform and same goes for the boots.Hence a soldier has to go to a shop and buys camo and boots of his choice.

I am expecting all this to end with the induction of F-INSAS.

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## Dandpatta

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Look,What i believe is that F-INSAS will bring in a *digi-camo for the IA and since digi camo requires technology and designing it may have copyrights so that these vendors wont be able to copy it*.Even if thats not the case the Army should take actions after inducting F-INSAS so that soldiers dont go to these vendors and buy any camo of their choice.
> 
> The problem is that the IA doesnt provide soldiers with enough cloth for a year's uniform and same goes for the boots.Hence a soldier has to go to a shop and buys camo and boots of his choice.
> 
> I am expecting all this to end with the induction of F-INSAS.



Your points are well made and well taken . Thanks .
However, as a person who is in the fabrics technology for over 25 years, I must say this with sadness that the Indian Armed forces doesn't seem to look closely at the most crucial factor for colors on fabrics. My fear, is that no matter what kind of DDP FINSAS uses, the danger is in allocating "accredited" fabrics mills in India to produce them - *SANS* - any technical parameters of color fastness.

Color fastness is a BIG thing and a color / fabric reacts to sunlight (harshness), number of washes, tear strength, crocking (wet and dry crocking), tensile strength et al and shrinkage.

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## mirage2K

Abingdonboy said:


> GREAT PICS @Water Car Engineer!!! Got anymore??
> 
> 
> 
> All in all the Garud are pretty well-equipped and I'm glad to see the Spetnez scooter-like helmet is on the way out for them.


why is the Garud carrying a rope a la boy scout style as I have never seen any Indian army personal or special forces operative carry a rope this way...most of the time the rope would be tucked inside the ruck sack or if the rope would be large enough would be carried on the shoulders


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

mirage2K said:


> why is the Garud carrying a rope a la boy scout style as I have never seen any Indian army personal or special forces operative carry a rope this way...most of the time the rope would be tucked inside the ruck sack or if the rope would be large enough would be carried on the shoulders



Yeah...and same goes for the knife and pistol placed wrongly.I am guessing that it is so because it is a "mela" or fair and they have to show what all they carry.Hence they have put it in a more visible place.


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## kbd-raaf

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeah...and same goes for the knife and pistol placed wrongly.I am guessing that it is so because it is a "mela" or fair and they have to show what all they carry.Hence they have put it in a more visible place.



That's a negative mate, most soldiers place their combat knives and secondary weapons on their torso whereas security forces place them on the hips or strapped around the thigh.

This is to aid in mobility, a heavy weight tied around ones leg can reduce your running perfomance.

An US soldier with his pistol holster.

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## Abingdonboy

kbd-raaf said:


> That's a negative mate, most soldiers place their combat knives and secondary weapons on their torso whereas security forces place them on the hips or strapped around the thigh.
> 
> This is to aid in mobility, a heavy weight tied around ones leg can reduce your running perfomance.
> 
> An US soldier with his pistol holster.



Indeed, NSG:

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## mirage2K

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeah...and same goes for the knife and pistol placed wrongly.I am guessing that it is so because it is a "mela" or fair and they have to show what all they carry.Hence they have put it in a more visible place.


i can understand and know the reason why the operative is carrying a knife and pistol on the body as @kbd-raaf has implied but i was just asking why he was carrying a rope in that fashion as i have never seen a Garud carry a rescue rope on his person


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## Abingdonboy

mirage2K said:


> i can understand and know the reason why the operative is carrying a knife and pistol on the body as @kbd-raaf has implied but i was just asking why he was carrying a rope in that fashion as i have never seen a Garud carry a rescue rope on his person



How many pics of Garuds are actually out there though? I've seen ropes carried like this by many militaries and SF mostly for abseiling and mountaineering.


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## mirage2K

Abingdonboy said:


> How many pics of Garuds are actually out there though? I've seen ropes carried like this by many militaries and SF mostly for abseiling and mountaineering.



the length of the rope carried would be too small for abseiling and mountaineering..however it can be used for lashing something...armies or SF do carry ropes but it will be too large to be carried hooked on to their waist belt....they do carry ropes but not boy scout types AFAIK...it would either be carried wrapped around the shoulder or in their ruck sacks


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## Abingdonboy

mirage2K said:


> the length of the rope carried would be too small for abseiling and mountaineering..however it can be used for lashing something...armies or SF do carry ropes but it will be too large to be carried hooked on to their waist belt....they do carry ropes but not boy scout types AFAIK...it would either be carried wrapped around the shoulder or in their ruck sacks



Well IMHO this is for mountaineering/abseiling, it is even tied as such:













Take what you see with a pinch of salt- this is for show mainly. Other bundles will be carried in real life with longer rope.


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## mirage2K

Abingdonboy said:


> Well IMHO this is for mountaineering/abseiling, it is even tied as such:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take what you see with a pinch of salt- this is for show mainly. Other bundles will be carried in real life with longer rope.



*i am talking about the rope carried by the Garud in the pic* and not of any ropes per se


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## Dandpatta

I must say, modular vests have made a huge difference in the way soldiers attach weapons and utility pouches on their selves. That, compared to the hip centric LBH (Load Bearing Harness) used in the bygone era.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Hey..i had come home(J&K) for holidays after a long time and i got to meet a Spec Ops operator.I have developed quite a friendship with him and he has been in Spec ops in J&K for over 4 years but not a SF though.Although he has been on many missions with SF.

I have got to know sooo many things and the guy has literally surprised me with his list of equipments that these guys use.Just trying to confirm a few more things before i post anything and this guy has some really badass stories which i am not sure i will be able to share 100%.

But will share whatever feels right...stay tuned!


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dandpatta said:


> I think the point is not about FINSAS solving the problem. The problem lies (acutely) with soldiers having to buy their own uniforms from different military vendors . There are countless pictures - not only of Garuds but of other regular army units wearing different patterns and this needs to be addressed soon. Just a few days back someone posted pictures of an army unit walking back after a mission in Kashmir and each one of them seemed to have his own personalised outfit. This year's 26th Jan parade had one picture of our para - one soldier wearing a different trouser pattern than the others.
> 
> I don't know how the supply of REGULAR CAMOUFLAGE uniforms is managed in other armies as big as India's but I have widely come across a lot of ex-personnel and serving members in the Indian Army esp. that they have to buy uniforms from vendors. As a civilian , I am a bit dumbfounded.
> 
> *Nevertheless, I salute these soldiers for getting jobs done regardless of what they wear ! *



indian soldiers "buy" uniforms?



kbd-raaf said:


> That's a negative mate, most soldiers place their combat knives and secondary weapons on their torso whereas security forces place them on the hips or strapped around the thigh.
> 
> This is to aid in mobility, a heavy weight tied around ones leg can reduce your running perfomance.
> 
> An US soldier with his pistol holster.



Tht looks like dragon skin armour?Thankfully our soldiers serving in the frontiers are getting them at a very fast place... along with tactical BP vests...


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> indian soldiers "buy" uniforms?



Not out of their own pocket- the Military subsidies/pays for them wrt uniforms. Most militaries operate like this- you are issued with a certain number of fatigues and any you need over and above this you need to go to the IA's stores. The UK and US armies operate just like this.


----------



## AnnoyingOrange

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> indian soldiers "buy" uniforms?



No they don't .... INdia army provides every soldier cloth for uniform that they can get stitched based upon their body... and Army refunds the stiching charges...

The battle fatigues are standard size based.. and are provided at the unit level to the soldiers.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Tht looks like dragon skin armour?Thankfully our soldiers serving in the frontiers are getting them at a very fast place... along with tactical BP vests...



It is unlikely to be Dragon Skin- the US Army has banned all it's soldiers from purchasing Dragon Skin armour.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Hey..i had come home(J&K) for holidays after a long time and i got to meet a Spec Ops operator.I have developed quite a friendship with him and he has been in Spec ops in J&K for over 4 years but not a SF though.Although he has been on many missions with SF.
> 
> I have got to know sooo many things and the guy has literally surprised me with his list of equipments that these guys use.Just trying to confirm a few more things before i post anything and this guy has some really badass stories which i am not sure i will be able to share 100%.
> 
> But will share whatever feels right...stay tuned!



 @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Certainly sounds VERY interesting. Please do share as soon as possible! 


Any details you find to sensitive to share on an open forum just email to me-if you could mate!


Eagerly awaiting the details!!


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Than why do most of indian soldiers in operational areas wear different camos and even some sf operators?


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Than why do most of indian soldiers in operational areas wear different camos and even some sf operators?



The current DPM was only introduced 4-5 years ago and it has simply taken FAR too long to issue it to 2.5+ MN (IA,IN,IAF+ reservists) men and women. Even now you will see the odd leaf-print pattern being worn but the situation is getting much, much better on this front. Most units have entirely switched over to the new DPM.


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## AnnoyingOrange

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Than why do most of indian soldiers in operational areas wear different camos and even some sf operators?



Different Regiments have different Uniform patterns.. thats why.


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## Anees

Why carry Suitcase with then ?? what is it???


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## Abingdonboy

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Different Regiments have different Uniform patterns.. thats why.



No mate that's not true- officially the entire IA should be wearing the new DPM but implementing this has been pretty poor in the past so it's only relatively recently most IA units have worn the new DPM. All regiments of the IA have the same camo- SOFs,obviously, are a different kettle of fish.



aneesdani said:


> Why carry Suitcase with then ?? what is it???


What suitcase mate?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> It is unlikely to be Dragon Skin- the US Army has banned all it's soldiers from purchasing Dragon Skin armour.



My mistake... its interceptor body armor..



AnnoyingOrange said:


> Different Regiments have different Uniform patterns.. thats why.



Different regiments have different uniforms? seriously man?


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## Anees

Abingdonboy said:


> No mate that's not true- officially the entire IA should be wearing the new DPM but implementing this has been pretty poor in the past so it's only relatively recently most IA units have worn the new DPM. All regiments of the IA have the same camo- SOFs,obviously, are a different kettle of fish.
> 
> 
> *What suitcase mate*?















photo is too small....

in this photo u can see one guy with a suitcase ....


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## AnnoyingOrange

aneesdani said:


> photo is too small....
> 
> in this photo u can see one guy with a suitcase ....



That suitcase contains documents that Prim Minister of India is supposed to carry to Independence Day Celebration... it contains copy of his speech and some other reference material....

And please don't confuse body guards with Army Soldiers.


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## AnnoyingOrange

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Different regiments have different uniforms? seriously man?



















For starters.

For more information visit : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/army-uniforms.htm


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## DESERT FIGHTER

AnnoyingOrange said:


> For starters.
> 
> For more information visit : Army Uniforms



Ceremonial dresses... go to the indian military multimedia thread and see what im talking about.. even their shirts dont match their trousers..


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## Abingdonboy

AnnoyingOrange said:


> For starters.
> 
> For more information visit : Army Uniforms


There is a difference between ceremonial and combat uniforms- all of the above (except the PARAs) are in CEREMONIAL uniforms. And yes, regiment to regiment there are differences but when it comes to COMBAT uniforms/fatigues they entire IA wears the SAME!!



aneesdani said:


> photo is too small....
> 
> in this photo u can see one guy with a suitcase ....





AnnoyingOrange said:


> That suitcase contains documents that Prim Minister of India is supposed to carry to Independence Day Celebration... it contains copy of his speech and some other reference material....
> 
> And please don't confuse body guards with Army Soldiers.



The "suitcase" is in fact a Folded Kevlar blanket that can be deployed to protect
the PM in case of attack. 




Edit, here you go folks:



Abingdonboy said:


> Guys found pics of such a system in use, Kevlar blanket breifcase:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This answers the Q.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Okay,so i got to meet a young 24 yrs old "Special Operations" operator.And i want to clear things in the beginning that he is a "special operations" operator and not a "Special force" operator.He has 5 yrs of service out of which 4 years are in Kashmir as part of QRT/CAT/GHATAK operator who got awarded the best rifleman by an Ex Para SF officer.A young college(B.com) dropout who wanted to join Army and one day quit his studies to pursue his dreams.A die hard Play station fan who misses his gadgets in the IA.Over the last few days we have become best of friends and he has shared many things with me which obviously i dont wanna share on the net.I will share whatever i can but guys i cant name most of the equipments with their specifications because he is a soldier who is not much into the company and origin but in using his equipments properly.The last time i shared something like this people kept asking specifications which is difficult to tell.

Since my whole family is in the Army so its not very difficult for me to see operators but never have i become friendly with them so much that they have shared stuff with me.This guy was very friendly and i didnt know in the beginning that he is a "Special operations" operator.We were talking about various first person shooting games and all when he mentioned that he was in kashmir and was a special operations operator.

I didnt take him very seriously coz he looked like a cool guy straight out of the college but he surprised me when he took out his mobile phone and showed his pics with other operators and man i was soo shocked to see what i seeing.These guys with beards and long hair didnt loook like an Army soldier one bit.I knew that in special operations soldiers grew beards but i didnt know that they look soo hardcore taliban lookalike.

Here i wish i could share more with you guys but since this is a Pakistani forum i cant share much.Just giving you a hint that solid preprations are done to make them behave,dress and talk like a terrorist.I will share the incidents and stories the next time as i am busy these days.

Some of the things i have to share is..BPJ in use..helmets,NVGs,day night sights,modifications with their rifles,some really cool stories..the uniforms and various modifications they carryout..etc

I am really sorry that you have to wait a few more days and i dont have time to sit back and write about the whole meeting but i will soon post about all these things.Just give me 48 hours mate.

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## jiki

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Okay,so i got to meet a young 24 yrs old "Special Operations" operator.And i want to clear things in the beginning that he is a "special operations" operator and not a "Special force" operator.He has 5 yrs of service out of which 4 years are in Kashmir as part of QRT/CAT/GHATAK operator who got awarded the best rifleman by an Ex Para SF officer.A young college(B.com) dropout who wanted to join Army and one day quit his studies to pursue his dreams.A die hard Play station fan who misses his gadgets in the IA.Over the last few days we have become best of friends and he has shared many things with me which obviously i dont wanna share on the net.I will share whatever i can but guys i cant name most of the equipments with their specifications because he is a soldier who is not much into the company and origin but in using his equipments properly.The last time i shared something like this people kept asking specifications which is difficult to tell.
> 
> Since my whole family is in the Army so its not very difficult for me to see operators but never have i become friendly with them so much that they have shared stuff with me.This guy was very friendly and i didnt know in the beginning that he is a "Special operations" operator.We were talking about various first person shooting games and all when he mentioned that he was in kashmir and was a special operations operator.
> 
> I didnt take him very seriously coz he looked like a cool guy straight out of the college but he surprised me when he took out his mobile phone and showed his pics with other operators and man i was soo shocked to see what i seeing.These guys with beards and long hair didnt loook like an Army soldier one bit.I knew that in special operations soldiers grew beards but i didnt know that they look soo hardcore taliban lookalike.
> 
> Here i wish i could share more with you guys but since this is a Pakistani forum i cant share much.Just giving you a hint that solid preprations are done to make them behave,dress and talk like a terrorist.I will share the incidents and stories the next time as i am busy these days.
> 
> Some of the things i have to share is..BPJ in use..helmets,NVGs,day night sights,modifications with their rifles,some really cool stories..the uniforms and various modifications they carryout..etc
> 
> I am really sorry that you have to wait a few more days and i dont have time to sit back and write about the whole meeting but i will soon post about all these things.Just give me 48 hours mate.



com on mate i cant wait jus describe the equipment and wht kind of those are in brief, if details specification are not possible or u can ping me on my personal id(jik60sk@gmail.com) for any kinda specific info.. BTW gr8 work


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Okay,so i got to meet a young 24 yrs old "Special Operations" operator.And i want to clear things in the beginning that he is a "special operations" operator and not a "Special force" operator.He has 5 yrs of service out of which 4 years are in Kashmir as part of QRT/CAT/GHATAK operator who got awarded the best rifleman by an Ex Para SF officer.A young college(B.com) dropout who wanted to join Army and one day quit his studies to pursue his dreams.A die hard Play station fan who misses his gadgets in the IA.Over the last few days we have become best of friends and he has shared many things with me which obviously i dont wanna share on the net.I will share whatever i can but guys i cant name most of the equipments with their specifications because he is a soldier who is not much into the company and origin but in using his equipments properly.The last time i shared something like this people kept asking specifications which is difficult to tell.
> 
> Since my whole family is in the Army so its not very difficult for me to see operators but never have i become friendly with them so much that they have shared stuff with me.This guy was very friendly and i didnt know in the beginning that he is a "Special operations" operator.We were talking about various first person shooting games and all when he mentioned that he was in kashmir and was a special operations operator.
> 
> I didnt take him very seriously coz he looked like a cool guy straight out of the college but he surprised me when he took out his mobile phone and showed his pics with other operators and man i was soo shocked to see what i seeing.These guys with beards and long hair didnt loook like an Army soldier one bit.I knew that in special operations soldiers grew beards but i didnt know that they look soo hardcore taliban lookalike.
> 
> Here i wish i could share more with you guys but since this is a Pakistani forum i cant share much.Just giving you a hint that solid preprations are done to make them behave,dress and talk like a terrorist.I will share the incidents and stories the next time as i am busy these days.
> 
> Some of the things i have to share is..BPJ in use..helmets,NVGs,day night sights,modifications with their rifles,some really cool stories..the uniforms and various modifications they carryout..etc
> 
> I am really sorry that you have to wait a few more days and i dont have time to sit back and write about the whole meeting but i will soon post about all these things.Just give me 48 hours mate.


 @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR 
Very nice mate!! Oh how I'd love that sort of oppurtunity to grill such a guy! But like you say- they are very cagey. 


I notice you specifically differentiated between SF and "Special Operations" what exactly is the difference here? Was he in PARA (SF) or a Ghatak (not SF that's why I mention it) ie "Special operations capable" using Western/US lexicon?


If you don't wanna share publically you've got my email! 


Very interested in finding out more. 


Good work my friend!

+ @jiki

Any more info you can share about your encounter with PARA (SF) guys at Aero India wrt upcoming equipment and exisiting new tech they have mate??


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## mirage2K

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR please donot post any operational strategies of IA on open forum...that too on pk forum

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## Abingdonboy

mirage2K said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR please donot post any operational strategies of IA on open forum...that too on pk forum



Don't worry yourself buddy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has extensive experience around these military blokes and comes from a military family. He's perfectly aware of the need to protect Op Sec and where the lines are.

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> Any more info you can share about your encounter with PARA (SF) guys at Aero India wrt upcoming equipment and exisiting new tech they have mate??



Sorry Abingdonboy
dats it after dat conversation they jus vanished away and in the next day as the show was for common public i couldn't able to find dem , but yes i will try my best for any kindaa info or pic if will have a opportunity in future.

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> Sorry Abingdonboy
> dats it after dat conversation they jus vanished away and in the next day as the show was for common public i couldn't able to find dem , but yes i will try my best for any kindaa info or pic if will have a opportunity in future.



Cool stuff bro! 


I replied to your email btw!

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## Koovie



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## arp2041

@Abingdonboy








chances of skylite B in operation in special forces??

Or have we already inducted it??


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## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chances of skylite B in operation in special forces??
> 
> Or have we already inducted it??


 @arp2041

Don't know about the specifics but I know for a fact the PARA (SF) and (Airborne) have such man-portable UAVs and have been doing so for 3-4 years now. The tea to watch is the IA as they are on the hunt for such a system for all their infantry units andnrhisnwill he a MASSIVE order.


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## arp2041

Abingdonboy said:


> @arp2041
> 
> Don't know about the specifics but I know for a fact the PARA (SF) and (Airborne) have such man-portable UAVs and have been doing so for 3-4 years now. The tea to watch is the IA as they are on the hunt for such a system for all their infantry units andnrhisnwill he a *MASSIVE order*.



yup, 500 to be precise.

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## Abingdonboy

Come on @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro- we are all waiting with baited breath!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ok so i am back and the following question and answer session lasted for 4-5 days.(whenever i got a chance to ask him questions about the Army)

*Me-So you have been a part of Special Operations?How is it different to Special Forces as for me Special Ops are related to Special Forces?

*Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.Ghatakas and CAT have also done Spec Ops.

*Me-CAT??What is that?

*Spec Ops Operator--Company Assault Team.A small bunch of soldiers who were to be trained as Para SF....as in a specialist in a 6 man squad but it didnt last long.

*Me-Wow...but why didnt it last long.I think it was a brilliant idea.

*Spec Ops Operator--Thats what we were wondering.

*Me-Okay..Comming back to Spec ops..What was the team like and what did you guys do..any behind the line ops?

*Spec Ops Operator--No..we never crossed the LOC but our task was to collect intel by infiltrating inside the group and carrying out our tasks.

*Me--What group are you talking about?

*Spec Ops Operator--I cant tell you that.

*Me-Cool..no problem.So you told me that you liked the gear western armies have for their Spec ops guys and i believe our operators are not given enough despite having a pretty good budget .I mean our Generals have money to buy golf carts but not blood clotting band aids.

*Spec Ops Operator--The thing is that things are slowly changing.A lot has changed in the last 5 years and i expect much more in the comming years.

*Me--Come on...We dont have proper night fighting abilities for a foot soldier.

*Spec Ops Operator--Are you talking about Spec ops or regulars?

*Me--I know SF has NVGs but i dont think adequate equipment is present in infantry battalions.Like for eg there are HHTI but no NVGs.

*Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.We have NVGs and sights which combined with HHTI,LORES and TOUTI(i dont remember what he said so forgive me for that) gives us an advantage.

*Me--HHTI is Hand hekd Thermal Imager right?..But what the fck is Lores and touti(or whatever)

*Spec Ops Operator--They are long range camera kind of thing having day/night ability which we use for monitoring the LOC.Their range is 15kms and are present in most of the posts so that when there is an infiltration we have extra pair of eyes.

*Me-Nice..What kind of sights do you guys use?

*Spec Ops Operator--We have 3 sights in use..Red *** sights which do not use battery.Second is the quadrantal line sights.I dont know what they were called but they also dont use battery.Third one was what we called day/night sight which used battery.

*Me-But i havent seen regulars use any kind of sights except a few with INSAS.

*Spec Ops Operator--These are not for regulars but SF and Spec Ops only as of now due to low stock.Moreoever the problem is their battery life which is 2 hours bcoz of which many guys dont use it.

*Me-So you are telling me that you are satisfied with the stuff you have got?

*Spec Ops Operator--Absolutely and let me tell you in the comming years we are gonna be comparable to any SF unit in terms of equipments.Like for example when we go for Spec ops we are given the best equipments by the Army.Like in one operation we went we were given everything from NVGs to Drones.

*Me--WTF..My friend(abingdonboy) told me about this but i dint know it has become so common.

*Spec Ops Operator--We were given HHTI,NVGs,Dogs and drones for one particular operation in my career and the best part was the surprise package which happened to be an attack hopter(I dont knw why but he kept saying hopter again and again).

*Me--So what kind of NVGs did you use?

*Spec Ops Operator--Single tube and double tube worn without the helmet.But i would prefer HHTI and Day/Night sight over it anyday.

*Me--And what about the BPJ?

*Spec Ops Operator--We use 3 kinds of BPJs.The 1st one has 400gms plate.In this plate the BPJ is seperate and the Jacket is different.This is the one you would have seen mostly with Army SF.Second one has 4 kg plates with a rubber like outer core and the last type is the older type which has 8 kg plates.

Spec ops and SF use 400 gms one only.We spec ops guys wear 4 plates weighing 1.6 kgs and its pretty comfortable but the SF mostly wear 2 plates.

*Me--Yeah i know..they are the blue eyed boys of the IA.

*Spec Ops Operator--(Smiles)...yeah they are..They deserve it too.

*Me--Ya i know...What kind of helmets do you use?

*Spec Ops Operator--Patka is common but we use new helmets(Israeli type ones)

*Me-So you were talking about the Para SF..Can you please share something about them as i am their big fan.

*Spec Ops Operator--Yeah..They and Marcos are India's elite SF.

*Me-I know this..Talking of Marcos..have you ever worked with them?

*Spec Ops Operator-I have never seen them.

*Me--How would you compare them?

*Spec Ops Operator--I wont compare them but i know this for a fact that in CIJWS various teams take part including the PARA SF,MARCOS,GARUDA,ITBP etc and the Para SF have won most of the events and have stood first.

*Me--Can you share your sources please?

*Spec Ops Operator--No i cant..Just know that i am heading towards CIJWS next.

*Me-All the best...But why dont you join Para SF?

*Spec Ops Operator--I didnt get the chance as i was in RR when the opeinings came.Next time it comes i am going.

*Me-How does this opening system work?

*Spec Ops Operator--Interested canidates are tested in their Command and then only sent for further probation.

*Me--Its looks like you respect the SF a lot..since you told me that you didnt know about SF in your childhood then how did they earn respect in your eyes?

*Spec Ops Operator--It was this operator that we had solid intel that 3 terrorists including the area commander are present in the forests.We laid down the the cordon and ambush for 7 days but no result.As we were about to end this operation thinking that there is no one out there we saw the CO of the Para SF come and tell our commander that he has permission from Higher authorities to carry out this operation on their own without any support.

They laid ambush at strange positions(He was technically explaining but i was not getting it) and we felt like they are not gonna get them but in the next 12 hours they killed 3 terrorists with 0 casualties.

Their CO was straight out of a Hollywood Special Forces movie in his SUV(not a Gypsy and i am not naming the model here).He is the most bad *** officer i had ever seen.

*Me-Wow,thanks for sharing and what about that operation you said in which dogs and drones were used.

*Spec Ops Operator--We planned and practised for 7 days to take out a hideout in the forests.We(team of 12) were dropped in the snow by the hopters and when we threw our rucksacks it went 10 feet inside the snow.It was a very tough operation for us as well as the dogs.We had everything we wanted from NVGs to drones.The drones were hovering over our position and we had the choice of calling air strike when we wanted.

The commander decided to blow the hideout using attack hopters but it was of no use as it was well hidden inside the tunnel..."the attack hopters firing its machine gun over us and empty shells falling on us were awesome"(thats his line word to word)

So we moved in after 7 days of no meals and only chewing toffies as we couldnt afford to prepare MREs.As we moved in we saw trails which the drone had earlier confirmed as enough evidence of carrying out a special op..so we hit the tunnel with the RL and threw grenades and carried out an intervention while the snipers were covering us from far away.We killed 4 terrorists that day.

*Me--Woow...Thats cool..My respect to you and your friends in the Spec ops who are doing so much for the country.

*Spec Ops Operator--Its not for the country alone..We enjoy doing it.I always wanted to be different from the beginning and this is how i wanted my life to be.

*Me-Any other incident which you can pleease share?

*Spec Ops Operator--Hmm..okay last one.When we were on covert ops we got this info that Hizb-ul-Mujahiden were recruiting young college going kashmiris to carryout their propoganda campaing and these guys were teasing the sister of a BSF soldier from the same village.

We came to know about them and since we lived away from the Army no one knew about us.There was only one route where they used to tease her so we went on that route picked up these guys.Took them to the jungle and tied them to the trees.Then we thrashed them for the next 2 hours without saying a single word.

The result we got info out of them and these guys never went on that route again and hence the BSF soldiers sister was never teased again.(they didnt come to know that the Army had thrashed them)

*Me--These bastards should be thrashed like this only.

*Spec Ops Operator-The thing is that some are brainwashed and others do it for money.We knew of a house where 2 beautiful girls lived who used to go to the forests to give the terrorists food and were basically into prostitution and got money in return.

*Me-Thats really sad.

*Spec Ops Operator--And we are not authorised to even question them these days so we stick to what we are best at(covert ops)

*Me--So what about the good Kashmiris..do they support you or are they quite?

*Spec Ops Operator--I was once sitting behind a house in an ambush.It was 2 am and it was very cold.It was soo cold that i couldnt hold my gun properly.Suddenly we saw a old man and his daughter comming towards us with a hot bucket of water and tea.

We in the Army are not allowed to take anything from the civilians but we hardly had any choice so half of the team took tea(just incase the tea is poisoned).I was the among the ones who didnt take tea but i dipped my feet in the hot water...and it felt soo good that i felt like kissing the old man.

There are other incidents also where school children used to wave at us and people came to us for photographs.Not every one is against us there.

*Me--Hmmm..thanks for sharing soo much with me and i hope you get to wear the maroon beret soon.



Abingdonboy said:


> Come on @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro- we are all waiting with baited breath!!



Sorry for the delay...I reached Delhi today only.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok so i am back and the following question and answer session lasted for 4-5 days.(whenever i got a chance to ask him questions about the Army)



Epic, just EPIC!!  


Mate you say he was not SF but "Spec Ops"- does this mean Ghatak? 



+glad I got a little mention in the convo (wrt UAVs) lol!!



A lot of info there!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Epic, just EPIC!!
> 
> 
> Mate you say he was not SF but "Spec Ops"- does this mean Ghatak?
> 
> 
> 
> +glad I got a little mention in the convo (wrt UAVs) lol!!
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of info there!



Yup Ghatak and Under cover operator for RR.Basically he was into Special operations for RR.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I have filtered some of the things likes operational procedures and the vehicles in use plus the formations being used to counter terrorism step by step.

Incase of anything else that needs to be deleted do let me know.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok so i am back and the following question and answer session lasted for 4-5 days.(whenever i got a chance to ask him questions about the Army)
> 
> *Me-So you have been a part of Special Operations?How is it different to Special Forces as for me Special Ops are related to Special Forces?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.Ghatakas and CAT have also done Spec Ops.
> 
> *Me-CAT??What is that?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Company Assault Team.A small bunch of soldiers who were to be trained as Para SF....as in a specialist in a 6 man squad but it didnt last long.
> 
> *Me-Wow...but why didnt it last long.I think it was a brilliant idea.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Thats what we were wondering.
> 
> *Me-Okay..Comming back to Spec ops..What was the team like and what did you guys do..any behind the line ops?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No..we never crossed the LOC but our task was to collect intel by infiltrating inside the group and carrying out our tasks.
> 
> *Me--What group are you talking about?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I cant tell you that.
> 
> *Me-Cool..no problem.So you told me that you liked the gear western armies have for their Spec ops guys and i believe our operators are not given enough despite having a pretty good budget .I mean our Generals have money to buy golf carts but not blood clotting band aids.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--The thing is that things are slowly changing.A lot has changed in the last 5 years and i expect much more in the comming years.
> 
> *Me--Come on...We dont have proper night fighting abilities for a foot soldier.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Are you talking about Spec ops or regulars?
> 
> *Me--I know SF has NVGs but i dont think adequate equipment is present in infantry battalions.Like for eg there are HHTI but no NVGs.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.We have NVGs and sights which combined with HHTI,LORES and TOUTI(i dont remember what he said so forgive me for that) gives us an advantage.
> 
> *Me--HHTI is Hand hekd Thermal Imager right?..But what the fck is Lores and touti(or whatever)
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--They are long range camera kind of thing having day/night ability which we use for monitoring the LOC.Their range is 15kms and are present in most of the posts so that when there is an infiltration we have extra pair of eyes.
> 
> *Me-Nice..What kind of sights do you guys use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We have 3 sights in use..Red *** sights which do not use battery.Second is the quadrantal line sights.I dont know what they were called but they also dont use battery.Third one was what we called day/night sight which used battery.
> 
> *Me-But i havent seen regulars use any kind of sights except a few with INSAS.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--These are not for regulars but SF and Spec Ops only as of now due to low stock.Moreoever the problem is their battery life which is 2 hours bcoz of which many guys dont use it.
> 
> *Me-So you are telling me that you are satisfied with the stuff you have got?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Absolutely and let me tell you in the comming years we are gonna be comparable to any SF unit in terms of equipments.Like for example when we go for Spec ops we are given the best equipments by the Army.Like in one operation we went we were given everything from NVGs to Drones.
> 
> *Me--WTF..My friend(abingdonboy) told me about this but i dint know it has become so common.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We were given HHTI,NVGs,Dogs and drones for one particular operation in my career and the best part was the surprise package which happened to be an attack hopter(I dont knw why but he kept saying hopter again and again).
> 
> *Me--So what kind of NVGs did you use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Single tube and double tube worn without the helmet.But i would prefer HHTI and Day/Night sight over it anyday.
> 
> *Me--And what about the BPJ?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We use 3 kinds of BPJs.The 1st one has 400gms plate.In this plate the BPJ is seperate and the Jacket is different.This is the one you would have seen mostly with Army SF.Second one has 4 kg plates with a rubber like outer core and the last type is the older type which has 8 kg plates.
> 
> Spec ops and SF use 400 gms one only.We spec ops guys wear 4 plates weighing 1.6 kgs and its pretty comfortable but the SF mostly wear 2 plates.
> 
> *Me--Yeah i know..they are the blue eyed boys of the IA.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--(Smiles)...yeah they are..They deserve it too.
> 
> *Me--Ya i know...What kind of helmets do you use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Patka is common but we use new helmets(Israeli type ones)
> 
> *Me-So you were talking about the Para SF..Can you please share something about them as i am their big fan.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Yeah..They and Marcos are India's elite SF.
> 
> *Me-I know this..Talking of Marcos..have you ever worked with them?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator-I have never seen them.
> 
> *Me--How would you compare them?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I wont compare them but i know this for a fact that in CIJWS various teams take part including the PARA SF,MARCOS,GARUDA,ITBP etc and the Para SF have won most of the events and have stood first.
> 
> *Me--Can you share your sources please?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No i cant..Just know that i am heading towards CIJWS next.
> 
> *Me-All the best...But why dont you join Para SF?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I didnt get the chance as i was in RR when the opeinings came.Next time it comes i am going.
> 
> *Me-How does this opening system work?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Interested canidates are tested in their Command and then only sent for further probation.
> 
> *Me--Its looks like you respect the SF a lot..since you told me that you didnt know about SF in your childhood then how did they earn respect in your eyes?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--It was this operator that we had solid intel that 3 terrorists including the area commander are present in the forests.We laid down the the cordon and ambush for 7 days but no result.As we were about to end this operation thinking that there is no one out there we saw the CO of the Para SF come and tell our commander that he has permission from Higher authorities to carry out this operation on their own without any support.
> 
> They laid ambush at strange positions(He was technically explaining but i was not getting it) and we felt like they are not gonna get them but in the next 12 hours they killed 3 terrorists with 0 casualties.
> 
> Their CO was straight out of a Hollywood Special Forces movie in his SUV(not a Gypsy and i am not naming the model here).He is the most bad *** officer i had ever seen.
> 
> *Me-Wow,thanks for sharing and what about that operation you said in which dogs and drones were used.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We planned and practised for 7 days to take out a hideout in the forests.We(team of 12) were dropped in the snow by the hopters and when we threw our rucksacks it went 10 feet inside the snow.It was a very tough operation for us as well as the dogs.We had everything we wanted from NVGs to drones.The drones were hovering over our position and we had the choice of calling air strike when we wanted.
> 
> The commander decided to blow the hideout using attack hopters but it was of no use as it was well hidden inside the tunnel..."the attack hopters firing its machine gun over us and empty shells falling on us were awesome"(thats his line word to word)
> 
> So we moved in after 7 days of no meals and only chewing toffies as we couldnt afford to prepare MREs.As we moved in we saw trails which the drone had earlier confirmed as enough evidence of carrying out a special op..so we hit the tunnel with the RL and threw grenades and carried out an intervention while the snipers were covering us from far away.We killed 4 terrorists that day.
> 
> *Me--Woow...Thats cool..My respect to you and your friends in the Spec ops who are doing so much for the country.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Its not for the country alone..We enjoy doing it.I always wanted to be different from the beginning and this is how i wanted my life to be.
> 
> *Me-Any other incident which you can pleease share?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Hmm..okay last one.When we were on covert ops we got this info that Hizb-ul-Mujahiden were recruiting young college going kashmiris to carryout their propoganda campaing and these guys were teasing the sister of a BSF soldier from the same village.
> 
> We came to know about them and since we lived away from the Army no one knew about us.There was only one route where they used to tease her so we went on that route picked up these guys.Took them to the jungle and tied them to the trees.Then we thrashed them for the next 2 hours without saying a single word.
> 
> The result we got info out of them and these guys never went on that route again and hence the BSF soldiers sister was never teased again.(they didnt come to know that the Army had thrashed them)
> 
> *Me--These bastards should be thrashed like this only.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator-The thing is that some are brainwashed and others do it for money.We knew of a house where 2 beautiful girls lived who used to go to the forests to give the terrorists food and were basically into prostitution and got money in return.
> 
> *Me-Thats really sad.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--And we are not authorised to even question them these days so we stick to what we are best at(covert ops)
> 
> *Me--So what about the good Kashmiris..do they support you or are they quite?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I was once sitting behind a house in an ambush.It was 2 am and it was very cold.It was soo cold that i couldnt hold my gun properly.Suddenly we saw a old man and his daughter comming towards us with a hot bucket of water and tea.
> 
> We in the Army are not allowed to take anything from the civilians but we hardly had any choice so half of the team took tea(just incase the tea is poisoned).I was the among the ones who didnt take tea but i dipped my feet in the hot water...and it felt soo good that i felt like kissing the old man.
> 
> There are other incidents also where school children used to wave at us and people came to us for photographs.Not every one is against us there.
> 
> *Me--Hmmm..thanks for sharing soo much with me and i hope you get to wear the maroon beret soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the delay...I reached Delhi today only.



Do you know you sound like a fan boy.. with the "wows" and all....lol... and the soldier (real or imaginery) is contradicting himself when it comes to the kashmiri public support?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

A few questions that i missed out.

*Me--Any regrets?

*Spec Ops Operator--I was once on the LMG when at about a 1km a terrorist suddenly got out of a bush and jumped into another...I missed him by inches.I knew something like this was gonna happen.

*Me-What is the difference between how you do ops and how Army SF does?

*Spec Ops Operator--Their "fire and move drill" is better than ours.Some of their procedures are different.More of the western types.

Basically they come by helo and go whereas we have to do the drill everyday so we start taking it lightly.

And lastly is their confidence which no one can demoralise.

*Me-Dream posting?

*Spec Ops Operator--CIJWS as an instructor

*Me--Your fav weapon?

*Spec Ops Operator--AK modified with sight which was attached to gas chamber.Another modification that i liked was INSAS LMG with bi-pod removed to be fitted with UBGL and sights.

*Me--I have seen camelbaks hydration packs in use by the Army..can you confirm it?

*Spec Ops Operator--They are not exactly camelbaks but a black jacket with pouch and a 5 litlre bottle on the back attached to it with a pipe in front.Its a new thing and its really cool.I like the pistol hoster which is attached to it.

But difficult to wear on warm days.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Do you know you sound like a fan boy.. with the "wows" and all....lol... and the soldier (real or imaginery) is contradicting himself when it comes to the kashmiri public support?



Well i am a proud fanboy and such things excite me hence the wow.

Talking about Kashmiri support..everyone knows half of the Kashmiris support the IA and half dont.Unfortunately i cant share here how Kashmiris are winning us the war but you can check JAKLI in google to know more about them and yeah dont forget SOG too.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Well i am a proud fanboy and such things excite me hence the wow.
> 
> Talking about Kashmiri support..everyone knows half of the Kashmiris support the IA and half dont.Unfortunately i cant share here how Kashmiris are winning us the war but you can check JAKLI in google to know more about them and yeah dont forget SOG too.



Only support ive observed comes from the hindus or non muslim in IOK... and u urself confirmed abt the support ... with the "poison" comment... also tell us which hand held drones are used by indian special forces?i assume you bought them from EU.. considering india doesnt make any ...


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Do you know you sound like a fan boy.. with the "wows" and all....lol... and the soldier (real or imaginery) is contradicting himself when it comes to the kashmiri public support?











DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Only support ive observed comes from the hindus or non muslim in IOK... and u urself confirmed abt the support ... with the "poison" comment... also tell us which hand held drones are used by indian special forces?i assume you bought them from EU.. considering india doesnt make any ...


From what I know they have been bought from the US and Israel. Indian man-portable UAVs are under devlopment and will be in service soon enough. 


The (Indian) Netra UAV has been ordered by a few state police forces and CAPFs.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Only support ive observed comes from the hindus or non muslim in IOK... and u urself confirmed abt the support ... with the "poison" comment... also tell us which hand held drones are used by indian special forces?i assume you bought them from EU.. considering india doesnt make any ...



Dude,you have a negative approach towards my post hence the poison comment.

The Army says that its soldiers shouldnt trust anyone and hence not consume food because it can be poisoned.Army personnel in large numbers dont consume food from a single restaurant be it Kashmir or Tamil Nadu.

Handheld drones are with SF..these guys had the bigger drones which operate from the AF base in Srinagar.

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## Abingdonboy

+ @desert warrior @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR 

It is the official policy of the military not to accept any presents/gifts/food from anyone. I remember reading a piece about 1984 where the writer was just a kid and an IA soldier was deployed on his street for 2 days without any food- he was offered food and tea by the residents but refused all and refused to converse. This is OFFICAL policy.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> + @desert warrior @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> It is the official policy of the military not to accept any presents/gifts/food from anyone. I remember reading a piece about 1984 where the writer was just a kid and an IA soldier was deployed on his street for 2 days without any food- he was offered food and tea by the residents but refused all and refused to converse. This is OFFICAL policy.



Yeah thats true..The Indian Army is against consuming food from civilians,taking any mechanical help for their vehicles,buying petrol from outside,uploading pics on FB etc etc

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


>



Seems like you had too much curry..


> From what I know they have been bought from the US and Israel. Indian man-portable UAVs are under devlopment and will be in service soon enough.
> 
> 
> The (Indian) Netra UAV has been ordered by a few state police forces and CAPFs.



I meant which systems were bought? as for indian portable UAVs... do u mean netra?



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,you have a negative approach towards my post hence the poison comment.
> 
> The Army says that its soldiers shouldnt trust anyone and hence not consume food because it can be poisoned.Army personnel dont consume food in large numbers from a single restaurant be it Kashmir or Tamil Nadu.
> 
> Handheld drones are with SF..these guys had the bigger drones which operate from the AF base in Srinagar.



Not surprises the hatred for indian forces in the valley would make them cautious.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Seems like you had too much curry.
> 
> I meant which systems were bought? as for indian portable UAVs... do u mean netra?

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## saumyasupratik

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *Spec Ops Operator--We use 3 kinds of BPJs.The 1st one has 400gms plate.In this plate the BPJ is seperate and the Jacket is different.This is the one you would have seen mostly with Army SF.Second one has 4 kg plates with a rubber like outer core and the last type is the older type which has 8 kg plates.
> 
> Spec ops and SF use 400 gms one only.We spec ops guys wear 4 plates weighing 1.6 kgs and its pretty comfortable but the SF mostly wear 2 plates.



Even SAPI side plates don't weigh 400 gm.4 plates would mean 2 side plates which are smaller and weigh around 1kg and 2 plates which are the front and back plate respectively which weigh around 1.8-2.5 kg.Depends on the vest, I am sure the vests used by SF are plate carriers and not full body-armour with soft armour as well.
So the point is he'd just be carrying a plate which weighs 1.6KG instead of 4 plates.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not surprises the hatred for indian forces in the valley would make them cautious.



Whatever floats your boat...We have a professional Army which is not allowed to go to every civilians house for dawat..Maybe that would be ther case for Pakistan ki berri fauj thatswhy its hard for you to get it.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

saumyasupratik said:


> Even SAPI side plates don't weigh 400 gm.4 plates would mean 2 side plates which are smaller and weigh around 1kg and 2 plates which are the front and back plate respectively which weigh around 1.8-2.5 kg.Depends on the vest, I am sure the vests used by SF are plate carriers and not full body-armour with soft armour as well.
> So the point is he'd just be carrying a plate which weighs 1.6KG instead of 4 plates.



He told me that the plate is basically made of some fibre or something which looks like wool and is not a metal plate.One piece weighs 400gms.So 4 pieces would weigh 1.6kg.I have seen some pics too and they are smaller than the normal BPJ.

This was told to me last year by a regular RR guy also so i can confirm that a BPJ is there which weighs lighter than normal one.Although i too had doubts on its weight but this was not the first time i was hearing this so i trusted him.

Moreoever this kind of BPJ doesnt have the pouch attached.

He didnt share his pics but it looked something like this but not exactly the same..i would say a little smaller than this.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Any question you guys have which is related to this is most welcome and i would try to ask it from him.

Please keep in mind that most of the things are scanned and Army Spec ops and SF are on a constant watch by Army Intel so only those things can be shared which feels right.

Lastly this guy is a sepoy with 4-5 yrs of service and no officer who is technically sound with most equipments.So bear with this.Answers will be based on practical use and not geek knowledge crammed from a internet website.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

And yeah lastly,When i asked him why are there so many camo in use with some guys wearing Elbow/Knee Guards and others not..Some carrying hydration packs and others not...some wearing israeli type helmets and others with patka he said that The entire Kashmir region is filled with different commands so it is upto the Army commander as to how he equips his QRT.

So we have to wait till F-INSAS gets inducted for such things to end.

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## mirage2K

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR some people have hatred sewn in their mentality and have been born for that...its their destiny and they would never come up in life because of that ...look at their country...if they would not have followed their hate mentality since 65 years their country would have been one of the most prosperous in the world and would not have been in the doldrums...my advice to you is keep these stories coming and don't be mindful of the haters coz Loosers would be loosers always and haters would be haters...Let them keep hating us for another thousand years and we would be progressing and developing and would make our country a better place for our citizens...and they will still be languishing at the bottom if ever they are in one piece which I doubt

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## saumyasupratik

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He told me that the plate is basically made of some fibre or something which looks like wool and is not a metal plate.One piece weighs 400gms.So 4 pieces would weigh 1.6kg.I have seen some pics too and they are smaller than the normal BPJ.
> 
> This was told to me last year by a regular RR guy also so i can confirm that a BPJ is there which weighs lighter than normal one.Although i too had doubts on its weight but this was not the first time i was hearing this so i trusted him.
> 
> Moreoever this kind of BPJ doesnt have the pouch attached.
> 
> He didnt share his pics but it looked something like this but not exactly the same..i would say a little smaller than this.



Those would be soft armour panels then which are supposed to be Kevlar or Aramid instead of hardened steel plates or Boron Carbide plates.

Kevlar or Aramid soft armour is only good for fragmentation and pistol rounds.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Whatever floats your boat...We have a professional Army which is not allowed to go to every civilians house for dawat..Maybe that would be ther case for Pakistan ki berri fauj thatswhy its hard for you to get it.



Yes your army just has draconian laws violating human rights in IOK...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

saumyasupratik said:


> Those would be soft armour panels than which are supposed to Kevlar or Aramid instead of hardened steel plates or Boron Carbide plates.
> 
> Kevlar or Aramid soft armour is only good for fragmentation and pistol rounds.



Ok...so what would be their protection against a 5.56 or 7.62?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes your army just has draconian laws violating human rights in IOK...



Dude..Till now i am quite only coz i considered you a friend and we both are fauji brats.

I need not remind you that no Army is clean and i can post enough **** against Pakistan Army which might make you more humble.

And lastly mate..Indian Special Forces are the most well trained,well equiped and the most successful SF in South Asia.Prove me wrong with facts not dialogues.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude..Till now i am quite only coz i considered you a friend and we both are fauji brats.
> 
> I need not remind you that no Army is clean and i can post enough **** against Pakistan Army which might make you more humble.



Go ahead.. and dont forget the list of human right violations of ur army... 


> And lastly mate..Indian Special Forces are the most well trained,well equiped and the most successful SF in South Asia.Prove me wrong with facts not dialogues.



Yeah right.. compare the armour,weapons,gears etc.. as for training or operations... how are you going to compare something when most of those are not even known?


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## Bang Galore

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes your army just has draconian laws violating human rights in IOK...



Says the chap whose army has actually used artillery & helicopter gunships to fight insurgency. Human rights eh?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Go ahead.. and dont forget the list of human right violations of ur army...
> 
> 
> Yeah right.. compare the armour,weapons,gears etc.. as for training or operations... how are you going to compare something when most of those are not even known?



Compare everything from the assault rifle to LMG in use.

If you wanna talk about equipments only i can stick out my neck and say that SSG comes no where even close to Garuds and Marcos.

And lastly our SF dont have a single operation as a failure which cant be said about SSG.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bang Galore said:


> Says the chap whose army has actually used artillery & helicopter gunships to fight insurgency. Human rights eh?



Yes ... even US and NATO is using far more equipment to fight telebunnies..


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## mirage2K

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes ... even US and NATO is using far more equipment to fight telebunnies..



US & Nato are using artillery and gunships against taliban who are not their nationalities whereas PA are using these things against their own people...

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes ... even US and NATO is using far more equipment to fight telebunnies..



Why drag NATO and the US into it? They are fighting in a land far away from home. Your military uses heavy firepower like arty and fast jets against your own people. India has NEVER sink this low.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Compare everything from the assault rifle to LMG in use.
> 
> If you wanna talk about equipments only i can stick my neck out and say that SSG comes no where even close to Garuds and Marcos.




Your surely gonna lose on tht account.. lets open a thread ... instead of derailing this one?

Here you go:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/256824-pak-sf-indian-sf.html



> And lastly our SF dont have a single operation as a failure which cant be said about SSG.



On how are SSG ops failures?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Forgot to add one thing...The Army SF also uses black uniform in Kashmir according to the Spec ops guy i met.I had once seen a pic of a guy in operation using black trouser and brown IA t-shirt.So i was wondering who he was but i know now moreoever i think since SF guys are a part of NSG they would keep their black uniforms too.So maybe if their hit squad comprises of ex NSG guys they would be using black dress....I am just guessing though.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Why drag NATO and the US into it? They are fighting in a land far away from home. Your military uses heavy firepower like arty and fast jets against your own people. India has NEVER sink this low.



Sink this low? lol.. kid we are fighting a war... in an area without any "borders" no barbed wires like LOC... an enemy tht 42+ countries and USA could defeat in 12 years... while ur army is busy with its draconian laws and human right violations in IOK..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Your surely gonna lose on tht account.. lets open a thread ... instead of derailing this one?
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/256824-pak-sf-indian-sf.html
> 
> 
> 
> On how are SSG ops failures?



Arnt SSG those guys who surrendered in 1 operation and later when they came to know that the Talibs were gonna kill them they faught for their life and got killed...Got a medal too.


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## me_itsme

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Arnt SSG those guys who surrendered in 1 operation and later when they came to know that the Talibs were gonna kill them they faught for their life and got killed...Got a medal too.



I am hearing this for the 1st time, could you provide some more info about this.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

me_itsme said:


> I am hearing this for the 1st time, could you provide some more info about this.



I read it on this forum only a few years ago.

Our SFs never surrender.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sink this low? lol.. kid we are fighting a war... in an area without any "borders" no barbed wires like LOC... an enemy tht 42+ countries and USA could defeat in 12 years... while ur army is busy with its draconian laws and human right violations in IOK..



Right what you are doing is complety righteous but everything India does is draconian and a violation of human rights? Is India not fighting the same war you are and yet their actions are seen by you as barbaric but your actions are seen as justified? How very objective of you. 


And like I said-India hasn't sunk this low- using arty and fast air on its own people. That's not a human rights violation. At all- right? 


That's before we even get onto the GoP allowing drone strikes on its own citizens.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Right what you are doing is complety righteous but everything India does is draconian and a violation of human rights? Is India not fighting the same war you are and yet their actions are seen by you as barbaric but your actions are seen as justified? How very objective of you.
> 
> 
> And like I said-India hasn't sunk this low- using arty and fast air on its own people. That's not a human rights violation. At all- right?
> 
> 
> That's before we even get onto the GoP allowing drone strikes on its own citizens.



Check out a few videos on youtube of their super disciplined army "murdering" people after torture.

We need not be told anything on human rights by these people.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Forgot to add one thing...The Army SF also uses black uniform in Kashmir according to the Spec ops guy i met.I had once seen a pic of a guy in operation using black trouser and brown IA t-shirt.So i was wondering who he was but i know now moreoever i think since SF guys are a part of NSG they would keep their black uniforms too.So maybe if their hit squad comprises of ex NSG guys they would be using black dress....I am just guessing though.


It's got nothing to do with NSG mate. PARA (SF) are issued black fatigues to conduct certain missions:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> It's got nothing to do with NSG mate. PARA (SF) are issued black fatigues to conduct certain missions:



Ya i know...but only selectvely.Its not for the entire battalion.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya i know...but only selectvely.Its not for the entire battalion.



Take it from me- this is uniform is possessed by every IA SF operator but only used for select missions and as we only see 1/100000th of what these guys do we have next to no pics of them in this gear.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Take it from me- this is uniform is possessed by every IA SF operator but only used for select missions and as we only see 1/100000th of what these guys do we have next to no pics of them in this gear.



Thats true..after chatting with the spec op guy i know that we never get to see them in full gear.Thanks to NDTV or we wont even know what we know now as that how they train and what they carry.

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## saumyasupratik

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok...so what would be their protection against a 5.56 or 7.62?



Rifle rounds would punch right through without much resistance.High calibre pistol rounds like .357 SIG, .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum may go right through the armour.It's at least capable of stopping 9x19mm Parabellum and other rounds like the 9x18 Makarov and .380APC. 7.62x25mm Tokarev used in TT-33 and used by the insurgents might penetrated this armour as well.The Armour piercing 5.7x28 and 4.6x30 which were specifically made to counter soft armour vests would also easily penetrate the body armour.

To stop rifle rounds the armour should have hard armour inserts like hardened steel plates, ceramic plates or titanium plates.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Abingdonboy yes SSG operates CASAs and C-130Js... as for special vehicles yes... they do... and for LMGs they use FN MAG,FN Minimi and M249 SAW...while MG3 is an all purpose MG.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Abingdonboy yes SSG operates CASAs and C-130Js... as for special vehicles yes... they do... as for MGs they use MG3,FN MAG,FN Minimi and M249 SAW...



No the SSG doesn't operate them- the PAF operates them. And have you got any link that the Pakistani SF have exclusive acsess to such aviation assets and that these a/c are specialized for Spec Ops with IFR probes, FLIR, MAWS, RWRs, COMSEC etc?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> No the SSG doesn't operate them- the PAF operates them. And have you got any link that the Pakistani SF have exclusive acsess to such aviation assets and that these a/c are specialized for Spec Ops with IFR probes, FLIR, MAWS, RWRs, COMSEC etc?



Yes they have such system.....and even have... Star Safire and Brite Star systems... instead of asking knoob questions u should research abt it...........as for Operating do ur SFs operate the future airplanes? they are used by SFs....:

http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...Z0EmnV9RKdUqnoAaN0plT8Q&bvm=bv.47534661,d.Yms


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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Abingdonboy yes SSG operates CASAs and C-130Js... as for special vehicles yes... they do... and for LMGs they use FN MAG,FN Minimi and M249 SAW...while MG3 is an all purpose MG.



Pakistan does not have C 130Js, the PAF uses older models.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Koovie said:


> Pakistan does not have C 130Js, the PAF uses older models.



They have been "upgraded" and we also overhaul them... taking them apart and servicing their parts compelety..


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes they have such system.....and even have... Star Safire and Brite Star systems... instead of asking knoob questions u should research abt it...........as for Operating do ur SFs operate the future airplanes? they are used by SFs....:
> 
> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...Z0EmnV9RKdUqnoAaN0plT8Q&bvm=bv.47534661,d.Yms



You're the one always asking me to provide proof/sources, when I politely ask you to return the favour I get this vile response? 




And no SFs don't operate a/c- they are operated by AF personnel. They USE them but don't operate them. 



And what future airplanes? These C-130J-30s are in Indian service right now, the IAF will be signing a follow-on contract for 6 more later this year. All 12 are dedicated Spec Ops platforms and are kitted out as such. They will be under the Indian SOCOM that is being raised.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They have been "upgraded" and we also overhaul them... taking them apart and servicing their parts compelety..



Not to "J" standard- some to "H".

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR so tell us bruh how indian SFs are better equipped than Pak SFs?


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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They have been "upgraded" and we also overhaul them... taking them apart and servicing their parts compelety..



Thats still not making a C130 J out of them.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR so tell us bruh how indian SFs are better equipped than Pak SFs?



No fixed wing dedicated squadron...No Swimmer Delievery vehicle..no pics of dedicated raid vehicles..

Moreoever whats the future in terms of upgrading?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Not to "J" standard- some to "H".



All of them.. have been upgraded... upgrades include new engines,avionics,cockpit upgrades etc.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> All of them.. have been upgraded... upgrades include new engines,avionics,cockpit upgrades etc.



But not to the "J" standard- that is impossible.


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## bigzgvr4

TIER ONE RESPONSE UNIT OF INDIA " BLACK CATS" "NAG COMMANDOS" "POISON_NESS COMMANDOS"




































THESE are SOME OF THE PICS of TOP TIER RESPONSE UNIT OF INDIAN SF "BLACK CATS" "NAG COMMANDOS" "POISIONESS COMMNDOS"


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No fixed wing dedicated squadron...No Swimmer Delievery vehicle..no pics of dedicated raid vehicles..
> 
> Moreoever whats the future in terms of upgrading?



Yes... as if C-130s and CN-235s are for showing off... as for swimmer delievery vehicles.. yes the COSMOS subs used by SSGN has 2 of them...each... As for raid vehicles...i never knew small engined gypsies armed with MGs are something tht nobody could buy...

Im sure this is something only indian SFs can use:






Here is a pic of SSG with their Lexus:






Or these armed with ATMs:





*Mohafiz is an armoured vehicle with remote controlled MG on its rooftoop:
*
Older model:






The newer version:


*Mohafiz III
*


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## Abingdonboy

bigzgvr4 said:


> TIER ONE RESPONSE UNIT OF INDIA " BLACK CATS" "NAG COMMANDOS" "POISON_NESS COMMANDOS"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THESE are SOME OF THE PICS of TOP TIER RESPONSE UNIT OF INDIAN SF "BLACK CATS" "NAG COMMANDOS" "POISIONESS COMMNDOS"



What da fuq? The'rs no such thing as NAG commandos. Or "tier one" in India.



NSG:


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## bigzgvr4

Abingdonboy said:


> What da fuq? The'rs no such thing as NAG commandos. Or "tier one" in India.
> 
> 
> 
> NSG:



wow DUDE CLearly you dont know In mumbai attack and parliment Attack Nag commandos were the ones that responded first to the incident 

heres another pic of one 









like Nag commandos aka Black cats....... Pakistan has a tier one Response unit too But its under armys command it is know as al-zarrar battalion


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Older model:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The newer version:
> 
> 
> *Mohafiz III
> *



Like I've said- these aren't SF vehicles and if Pak SF use them then it is not appropriate for SFs to do so. Like I've said- India makes comparable vehicles, nothing special.



And anyway the point wrt Gypsies is valid but Indian SF Gypsies use modified versions with uprated engines and performance. Anway there is a dedicated procurement going on for Indian SF LSVs.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Like I've said- these aren't SF vehicles and if Pak SF use them then it is not appropriate for SFs to do so. Like I've said- India makes comparable vehicles, nothing special.
> 
> 
> 
> And anyway the point wrt Gypsies is valid but Indian SF Gypsies use modified versions with uprated engines and performance. Anway there is a dedicated procurement going on for Indian SF LSVs.



So roof less 1200cc gypsies armed with MGs is something special?


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So roof less 1200cc gypsies armed with MGs is something special?



I didn't say that.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

bigzgvr4 said:


> wow DUDE CLearly you dont know In mumbai attack and parliment Attack Nag commandos were the ones that responded first to the incident
> 
> heres another pic of one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like Nag commandos aka Black cats....... Pakistan has a tier one Response unit too But its under armys command it is know as al-zarrar battalion



Why is tht dude not wearing anything...  i guess he thinks hes rambo.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes... as if C-130s and CN-235s are for showing off... as for swimmer delievery vehicles.. yes the COSMOS subs used by SSGN has 2 of them...each... As for raid vehicles...i never knew small engined gypsies armed with MGs are something tht nobody could buy...
> 
> Im sure this is something only indian SFs can use:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a pic of SSG with their Lexus:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or these armed with ATMs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Mohafiz is an armoured vehicle with remote controlled MG on its rooftoop:
> *
> Older model:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The newer version:
> 
> 
> *Mohafiz III
> *



The last one is not a SF vehicle.

And only Indian SF uses these vehicles??..Check this out

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Like I've said- these aren't SF vehicles and if Pak SF use them then it is not appropriate for SFs to do so. Like I've said- India makes comparable vehicles, nothing special.
> 
> 
> 
> And anyway the point wrt Gypsies is valid but Indian SF Gypsies use modified versions with uprated engines and performance. Anway there is a dedicated procurement going on for Indian SF LSVs.



Sir ji can you tell me which indian vehicle uses remote controlled MG? no pun.


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## bigzgvr4

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Why is tht dude not wearing ...  i guess he thinks hes rambo.



DUde is a NAG COMMANDO and belong to Black cats GROUP


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## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> What da fuq? The'rs no such thing as NAG commandos. Or "tier one" in India.
> 
> 
> 
> NSG:



Leave him be..he's one of the most misinformed posters I've had the misfortune of coming across. An acidic mixture of self-serving bias and hubris. 

 @bigzgvr4


THIS IS THE NSG...THE NATIONAL SECURITY GUARD..AND IT IS NOT THE "TIER 1" COMPONENT OR ANYTHING OF THAT SORT...











Although my favorite are the Garuds..

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So roof less 1200cc gypsies armed with MGs is something special?



Roofless gypsy armed with an anti tank missile can take out your tank.


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## Abingdonboy

@DESERT FIGHTER I'm out of this fight. It's so pointless.



All I will say is who do you think will have better equipped SOFs in the future? The nation which has a $2TN USD economy, will be $4TN USD in a decade and will be spending $100BN+ on defence a year come 2020-22 or, well....................Pakistan??

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


> DUde is a NAG COMMANDO and belong to Black cats GROUP



What kind of an idiot are you?

I told you they are not called NAG commando..,can you prove it?

I can make fun of your forces wearing salwar kameez too and these guys are not SF.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sir ji can you tell me which indian vehicle uses remote controlled MG? no pun.



OFB's MPV:








That's it- I'm out.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The last one is not a SF vehicle.
> 
> And only Indian SF uses these vehicles??..Check this out



Im sorry dude... but the first pic is of an israeli tom car and others are US SFs... yes india has shown interest in polaris atv... but than again we have been using atvs since quiet a few years.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Roofless gypsy armed with an anti tank missile can take out your tank.



Congrats ... hope u know we also use jeeps with ATMs...



Abingdonboy said:


> OFB's MPV:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's it- I'm out.



I read somewhere tht its RCWS is imported... also the ones in service are without it..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Congrats ... hope u know we also use jeeps with ATMs...



You only said these vehicles are useless.

Even the SAS uses these roofless vehicles


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You only said these vehicles are useless.
> 
> Even the SAS uses these roofless vehicles



And you said Pak SF dont have these?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And you said Pak SF dont have these?



If they have these then why do you under estimate their use saying it is a useless vehicle...Can you suggest something better for a cross border commando raid on a desert or plain terrain?


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## bigzgvr4

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What kind of an idiot are you?
> 
> I told you they are not called NAG commando..,can you prove it?
> 
> I can make fun of your forces wearing salwar kameez too and these guys are not SF.



























*i just love indian trolls how is these nag commandos aka black cats not tier one SP/SOPS, when they were the first boots on youts on the ground during parliment attack and the hotel attack, they are the same as the FBI's HOSTAGE RESCUE TEAM which is also a tier one SF Unit of FBI and responded to the bostom bombing during the Manhunt you guys(indians) are uber troll as i am simply admiring the Nag Unit and posting pics and you are hating hardbody on me 
*


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## kbd-raaf

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Im sorry dude... but the first pic is of an israeli tom car and others are US SFs... yes india has shown interest in polaris atv... but than again we have been using atvs since quiet a few years.
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats ... hope u know we also use jeeps with ATMs...
> 
> 
> 
> I read somewhere tht its RCWS is imported... also the ones in service are without it..



Israeli origin, Indian owned 

The 'Pakistani' RCWS is imported too.

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## Koovie

bigzgvr4 said:


> *i just love indian trolls how is these nag commandos aka black cats not tier one SP/SOPS, when they were the first boots on youts on the ground during parliment attack and the hotel attack, they are the same as the FBI's HOSTAGE RESCUE TEAM which is also a tier one SF Unit of FBI and responded to the bostom bombing during the Manhunt you guys(indians) are uber troll as i am simply admiring the Nag Unit and posting pics and you are hating hardbody on me
> *



2end and last one are definitely not NSG... they are probably CRPF units.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


> *i just love indian trolls how is these nag commandos aka black cats not tier one SP/SOPS, when they were the first boots on youts on the ground during parliment attack and the hotel attack, they are the same as the FBI's HOSTAGE RESCUE TEAM which is also a tier one SF Unit of FBI and responded to the bostom bombing during the Manhunt you guys(indians) are uber troll as i am simply admiring the Nag Unit and posting pics and you are hating hardbody on me
> *




These pics are of a martial arts instructor you fool.

Check out his website

Welcome to Shifuji's Official website-Mission Prahaar, Kids Boot Camp, Corporate Boot Camp, Celebrity Programs, Modified Martial Arts, Magic Kung-Fu for Corporates, Shaolin Ql-Gong Energy Cultivation, Shaolin Tai Chi Chuan, Social Welfare Programs

And provide a link that they are NAG commandos or GTFO.

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## SirHatesALot

bigzgvr4 said:


> *i just love indian trolls how is these nag commandos aka black cats not tier one SP/SOPS, when they were the first boots on youts on the ground during parliment attack and the hotel attack, they are the same as the FBI's HOSTAGE RESCUE TEAM which is also a tier one SF Unit of FBI and responded to the bostom bombing during the Manhunt you guys(indians) are uber troll as i am simply admiring the Nag Unit and posting pics and you are hating hardbody on me
> *



Could you give me a source where these are called as NAG commandos?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

BTW..Keep getting jealous..ICS and F-INSAS is not far away...We will see how the Pakistani fanboys change their reply from we are better to Allah is on our side and we are seasoned fighter in a few years.

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## bigzgvr4

Koovie said:


> 2end and last one are definitely not NSG... they are probably CRPF units.


I only came to know about Black cats after the hotel attack and parliment attack and their success,, thanks for corrections i am going to look up crpfs



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> These pics are of a martial arts instructor you fool.
> 
> Check out his website
> 
> Welcome to Shifuji's Official website-Mission Prahaar, Kids Boot Camp, Corporate Boot Camp, Celebrity Programs, Modified Martial Arts, Magic Kung-Fu for Corporates, Shaolin Ql-Gong Energy Cultivation, Shaolin Tai Chi Chuan, Social Welfare Programs
> 
> And provide a link that they are NAG commandos or GTFO.



U ARE a TOOL they are wearing military fatigues and are holding weapons,................. YOU GET LIFE OR QUIT UR LIFE


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


> I only came to know about Black cats after the hotel attack and parliment attack and their success,, thanks for corrections i am going to look up crpfs
> 
> 
> 
> U ARE a TOOL they are wearing military fatigues and are holding weapons,................. YOU GET LIFE OR QUIT UR LIFE



Dude...a Pakistani need not tell me about Indian security forces.Cant you open the fcking website or are you a born dumbo.


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## Abingdonboy

kbd-raaf said:


> Israeli origin, Indian owned



I like that!!

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## bigzgvr4

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude...a Pakistani need not tell me about Indian security forces.Cant you open the fcking website or are you a born dumbo.[/QUOTE
> 
> READ CAREFULLY THE PICS I POSTED WHICH YOU QUOTED ME are of Indian Nag commandos(blackcats) and they are not martial arts instructor. JUST quit life kid


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Your SF couldnt manage to take Siachen from our regulars and you guys talk like you have a Seal team 6 or something.

Man,whom am i debating with..In 65 the SSG raised white flags..they had come for a special operation?



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude...a Pakistani need not tell me about Indian security forces.Cant you open the fcking website or are you a born dumbo.[/QUOTE
> 
> READ CAREFULLY THE PICS I POSTED WHICH YOU QUOTED ME are of Indian Nag commandos(blackcats) and they are not martial arts instructor. JUST quit life kid



Where is the NAG commando link...should i write in urdu..Is english tough to understand for you?

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## Ayush

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR he is an ignorant kid yaar..don't take him seriously..he is just a troll


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## Neptune

Abingdonboy said:


> Like I've said- these aren't SF vehicles and if Pak SF use them then it is not appropriate for SFs to do so. Like I've said- India makes comparable vehicles, nothing special.
> 
> 
> 
> And anyway the point wrt Gypsies is valid but Indian SF Gypsies use modified versions with uprated engines and performance. Anway there is a dedicated procurement going on for Indian SF LSVs.



they are Light Reconnaisence Vechiles designed for Urban Envirement as well as at low terrains which basically makes them a kinda SF Vechile my brother. The picture that @DESERT FIGHTER gave you is a Turkish product 

Otokar Akrep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## bigzgvr4

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Your SF couldnt manage to take Siachen from our regulars and you guys talk like you have a Seal team 6 or something.
> 
> Man,whom am i debating with..In 65 the SSG raised white flags..they had come for a special operation?
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the NAG commando link...should i write in urdu..Is english tough to understand for you?



S!HT HEAD i am not comparing indian forces with pakistan If you read my response which you qouted one post earlier i told koovie that i came to know about the tier one unit Black cats when they responded to Terrorist attacks at the parliment and hotel in india and they only lost like one or 2 guys and they nuetrilized their targets successfully.....

SO i am admiring the Nag commando unit of india are you that big of a tool to not see that 

dont qoute me now or ever and never

thank you come again

back to the topic












dont tell the guy doing the excercise on the bar is a martial arts instructor





















@Koovie your right some of the images under Blackcats are not Black cats

thankx


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ayush said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR he is an ignorant kid yaar..don't take him seriously..he is just a troll



I know mate..just englightening the kid

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## Abingdonboy

bigzgvr4 said:


> S!HT HEAD i am not comparing indian forces with pakistan If you read my response which you qouted one post earlier i told koovie that i came to know about the tier one unit Black cats when they responded to Terrorist attacks at the parliment and hotel in india and they only lost like one or 2 guys and they nuetrilized their targets successfully.....
> 
> SO i am admiring the Nag commando unit of india are you that big of a tool to not see that
> 
> dont qoute me now or ever and never
> 
> thank you come again
> 
> back to the topic



He posted this and yet they are still, for some reason- "N*A*G commandos"!!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


> S!HT HEAD i am not comparing indian forces with pakistan If you read my response which you qouted one post earlier i told koovie that i came to know about the tier one unit Black cats when they responded to Terrorist attacks at the parliment and hotel in india and they only lost like one or 2 guys and they nuetrilized their targets successfully.....
> 
> SO i am admiring the Nag commando unit of india are you that big of a tool to not see that
> 
> dont qoute me now or ever and never
> 
> thank you come again
> 
> back to the topic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dont tell the guy doing the excercise on the bar is a martial arts instructor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Koovie your right some of the images under Blackcats are not Black cats
> 
> thankx



Do you have a mental disorder?..Read all your posts and we know your intention.

Posting 10 year old pics to satisfy you ego..lol..do something better in life.Bottom line is we owned you in each and every war and your special forces got their a$$ kicked.



Abingdonboy said:


> He posted this and yet they are still, for some reason- "N*A*G commandos"!!!



LOL...How else can he prove that he is a jerk?

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## bigzgvr4

is this CRpf Unit koovie

thanks


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## Koovie

bigzgvr4 said:


> S!HT HEAD i am not comparing indian forces with pakistan If you read my response which you qouted one post earlier i told koovie that i came to know about the tier one unit Black cats when they responded to Terrorist attacks at the parliment and hotel in india and they only lost like one or 2 guys and they nuetrilized their targets successfully.....
> 
> SO i am admiring the Nag commando unit of india are you that big of a tool to not see that
> 
> dont qoute me now or ever and never
> 
> thank you come again
> 
> back to the topic
> 
> 
> 
> @Koovie your right some of the images under Blackcats are not Black cats
> 
> thankx



NP.... btw your 2end pic is from a movie.

NSG has undergone a complete overhaul..

NSG from 2011-2013

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## bigzgvr4

modern equipment of nag operators


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## Koovie

bigzgvr4 said:


> is this CRpf Unit koovie
> 
> thanks



I am not sure about that.... this flying guy is a martial arts dude who often trains with police forces ... I think these guys are members of some state police forces who fight naxals.


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## bigzgvr4

lol @Koovie 
bro we both posted the same pic 
the one with Sardar jii and the operators

I Guess they Cross train with GIGN

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## bigzgvr4

Cost of setting up one unit


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## Koovie

bigzgvr4 said:


> lol @Koovie
> bro we both posted the same pic
> the one with Sardar jii and the operators
> 
> I Guess they Cross train with GIGN



No they havent... but they trained with the GSG 9 some years ago.


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## bigzgvr4




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


>



Dude,We have seen these pics a 100 times.Stop posting them again and again.They are 5-10 yr old pics.


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## bigzgvr4

proposed induction of equipment


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## Koovie

bigzgvr4 said:


> proposed induction of equipment



Well they got it now.... and much much much more is yet to come

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## bigzgvr4

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,We have seen these pics a 100 times.Stop posting them again and again.They are 5-10 yr old pics.



WHy dont you not watch what i post for a change and be in a peacefull state of mind and you seriously have comprehension problem what part of dont qoute me now, never or ever again you did not get and plz dont metion me either now,ever or never

thank you come again _________________NOT

Black cats kill house helo reppeling or chopper reppeling


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## Abingdonboy

bigzgvr4 said:


> proposed induction of equipment





bigzgvr4 said:


> Cost of setting up one unit



Seen the newest pics of NSG? Got all of the above!


Anyway, plans are in motion to put these silly sketches drawn up by sensationalist journos, to shame:


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nsg+super+commando+2015&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nsg+super+commando+2015&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/135077-new-age-commandos-high-end-weapons-nsg.html

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## bigzgvr4

Abingdonboy said:


> Seen the newest pics of NSG? Got all of the above!
> 
> 
> Anyway, plans are in motion to put these silly sketches drawn up by sensationalist journos, to shame:
> 
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nsg+super+commando+2015&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nsg+super+commando+2015&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/135077-new-age-commandos-high-end-weapons-nsg.html



ya i know thats why i posted these pics Black cats are modernized with the same equipment as other tier one response units of the world 

their success rate is high in many operations they carry out all most all of them


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


> WHy dont you not watch what i post for a change and be in a peacefull state of mind and you seriously have comprehension problem what part of dont qoute me now, never or ever again you did not get and plz dont metion me either now,ever or never
> 
> thank you come again _________________NOT
> 
> Black cats kill house helo reppeling or chopper reppeling



Bcoz you are spoiling the fcking thread with your bull$hit.

Do you mind visitng old pages in the same thread.

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## Abingdonboy

bigzgvr4 said:


> ya i know thats why i posted these pics Black cats are modernized with the same equipment as other tier one response units of the world
> 
> their success rate is high in many operations they carry out all most all of them



The NSG is currently on a 5 year plan (started in 2010/11) known as "FUTURE BLACK CAT COMMANDO" so the process will not be over for another 2-3 years. Many more upgrades are yet to come!


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## bigzgvr4

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bcoz you are spoiling the fcking thread with your bull$hit.
> 
> Do you mind visitng old pages in the same thread.
























ya sure buddy @coldheartaviator



Abingdonboy said:


> The NSG is currently on a 5 year plan (started in 2010/11) known as "FUTURE BLACK CAT COMMANDO" so the process will not be over for another 2-3 years. Many more upgrades are yet to come!



well the links you provided it said "SUPER BLACK CAT COMMANDO 2015"


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


> ya sure buddy @coldheartaviator




Thank you very much and the second pic you posted is of Force 1 Mumbai Police not NSG which has been posted a 100 times.


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## bigzgvr4

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thank you very much.



no problem




from russian site



ladies black cats



i think mp-7 be better

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## jiki

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok so i am back and the following question and answer session lasted for 4-5 days.(whenever i got a chance to ask him questions about the Army)
> 
> *Me-So you have been a part of Special Operations?How is it different to Special Forces as for me Special Ops are related to Special Forces?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.Ghatakas and CAT have also done Spec Ops.
> 
> *Me-CAT??What is that?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Company Assault Team.A small bunch of soldiers who were to be trained as Para SF....as in a specialist in a 6 man squad but it didnt last long.
> 
> *Me-Wow...but why didnt it last long.I think it was a brilliant idea.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Thats what we were wondering.
> 
> *Me-Okay..Comming back to Spec ops..What was the team like and what did you guys do..any behind the line ops?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No..we never crossed the LOC but our task was to collect intel by infiltrating inside the group and carrying out our tasks.
> 
> *Me--What group are you talking about?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I cant tell you that.
> 
> *Me-Cool..no problem.So you told me that you liked the gear western armies have for their Spec ops guys and i believe our operators are not given enough despite having a pretty good budget .I mean our Generals have money to buy golf carts but not blood clotting band aids.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--The thing is that things are slowly changing.A lot has changed in the last 5 years and i expect much more in the comming years.
> 
> *Me--Come on...We dont have proper night fighting abilities for a foot soldier.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Are you talking about Spec ops or regulars?
> 
> *Me--I know SF has NVGs but i dont think adequate equipment is present in infantry battalions.Like for eg there are HHTI but no NVGs.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.We have NVGs and sights which combined with HHTI,LORES and TOUTI(i dont remember what he said so forgive me for that) gives us an advantage.
> 
> *Me--HHTI is Hand hekd Thermal Imager right?..But what the fck is Lores and touti(or whatever)
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--They are long range camera kind of thing having day/night ability which we use for monitoring the LOC.Their range is 15kms and are present in most of the posts so that when there is an infiltration we have extra pair of eyes.
> 
> *Me-Nice..What kind of sights do you guys use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We have 3 sights in use..Red *** sights which do not use battery.Second is the quadrantal line sights.I dont know what they were called but they also dont use battery.Third one was what we called day/night sight which used battery.
> 
> *Me-But i havent seen regulars use any kind of sights except a few with INSAS.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--These are not for regulars but SF and Spec Ops only as of now due to low stock.Moreoever the problem is their battery life which is 2 hours bcoz of which many guys dont use it.
> 
> *Me-So you are telling me that you are satisfied with the stuff you have got?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Absolutely and let me tell you in the comming years we are gonna be comparable to any SF unit in terms of equipments.Like for example when we go for Spec ops we are given the best equipments by the Army.Like in one operation we went we were given everything from NVGs to Drones.
> 
> *Me--WTF..My friend(abingdonboy) told me about this but i dint know it has become so common.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We were given HHTI,NVGs,Dogs and drones for one particular operation in my career and the best part was the surprise package which happened to be an attack hopter(I dont knw why but he kept saying hopter again and again).
> 
> *Me--So what kind of NVGs did you use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Single tube and double tube worn without the helmet.But i would prefer HHTI and Day/Night sight over it anyday.
> 
> *Me--And what about the BPJ?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We use 3 kinds of BPJs.The 1st one has 400gms plate.In this plate the BPJ is seperate and the Jacket is different.This is the one you would have seen mostly with Army SF.Second one has 4 kg plates with a rubber like outer core and the last type is the older type which has 8 kg plates.
> 
> Spec ops and SF use 400 gms one only.We spec ops guys wear 4 plates weighing 1.6 kgs and its pretty comfortable but the SF mostly wear 2 plates.
> 
> *Me--Yeah i know..they are the blue eyed boys of the IA.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--(Smiles)...yeah they are..They deserve it too.
> 
> *Me--Ya i know...What kind of helmets do you use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Patka is common but we use new helmets(Israeli type ones)
> 
> *Me-So you were talking about the Para SF..Can you please share something about them as i am their big fan.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Yeah..They and Marcos are India's elite SF.
> 
> *Me-I know this..Talking of Marcos..have you ever worked with them?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator-I have never seen them.
> 
> *Me--How would you compare them?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I wont compare them but i know this for a fact that in CIJWS various teams take part including the PARA SF,MARCOS,GARUDA,ITBP etc and the Para SF have won most of the events and have stood first.
> 
> *Me--Can you share your sources please?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No i cant..Just know that i am heading towards CIJWS next.
> 
> *Me-All the best...But why dont you join Para SF?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I didnt get the chance as i was in RR when the opeinings came.Next time it comes i am going.
> 
> *Me-How does this opening system work?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Interested canidates are tested in their Command and then only sent for further probation.
> 
> *Me--Its looks like you respect the SF a lot..since you told me that you didnt know about SF in your childhood then how did they earn respect in your eyes?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--It was this operator that we had solid intel that 3 terrorists including the area commander are present in the forests.We laid down the the cordon and ambush for 7 days but no result.As we were about to end this operation thinking that there is no one out there we saw the CO of the Para SF come and tell our commander that he has permission from Higher authorities to carry out this operation on their own without any support.
> 
> They laid ambush at strange positions(He was technically explaining but i was not getting it) and we felt like they are not gonna get them but in the next 12 hours they killed 3 terrorists with 0 casualties.
> 
> Their CO was straight out of a Hollywood Special Forces movie in his SUV(not a Gypsy and i am not naming the model here).He is the most bad *** officer i had ever seen.
> 
> *Me-Wow,thanks for sharing and what about that operation you said in which dogs and drones were used.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We planned and practised for 7 days to take out a hideout in the forests.We(team of 12) were dropped in the snow by the hopters and when we threw our rucksacks it went 10 feet inside the snow.It was a very tough operation for us as well as the dogs.We had everything we wanted from NVGs to drones.The drones were hovering over our position and we had the choice of calling air strike when we wanted.
> 
> The commander decided to blow the hideout using attack hopters but it was of no use as it was well hidden inside the tunnel..."the attack hopters firing its machine gun over us and empty shells falling on us were awesome"(thats his line word to word)
> 
> So we moved in after 7 days of no meals and only chewing toffies as we couldnt afford to prepare MREs.As we moved in we saw trails which the drone had earlier confirmed as enough evidence of carrying out a special op..so we hit the tunnel with the RL and threw grenades and carried out an intervention while the snipers were covering us from far away.We killed 4 terrorists that day.
> 
> *Me--Woow...Thats cool..My respect to you and your friends in the Spec ops who are doing so much for the country.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Its not for the country alone..We enjoy doing it.I always wanted to be different from the beginning and this is how i wanted my life to be.
> 
> *Me-Any other incident which you can pleease share?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Hmm..okay last one.When we were on covert ops we got this info that Hizb-ul-Mujahiden were recruiting young college going kashmiris to carryout their propoganda campaing and these guys were teasing the sister of a BSF soldier from the same village.
> 
> We came to know about them and since we lived away from the Army no one knew about us.There was only one route where they used to tease her so we went on that route picked up these guys.Took them to the jungle and tied them to the trees.Then we thrashed them for the next 2 hours without saying a single word.
> 
> The result we got info out of them and these guys never went on that route again and hence the BSF soldiers sister was never teased again.(they didnt come to know that the Army had thrashed them)
> 
> *Me--These bastards should be thrashed like this only.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator-The thing is that some are brainwashed and others do it for money.We knew of a house where 2 beautiful girls lived who used to go to the forests to give the terrorists food and were basically into prostitution and got money in return.
> 
> *Me-Thats really sad.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--And we are not authorised to even question them these days so we stick to what we are best at(covert ops)
> 
> *Me--So what about the good Kashmiris..do they support you or are they quite?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I was once sitting behind a house in an ambush.It was 2 am and it was very cold.It was soo cold that i couldnt hold my gun properly.Suddenly we saw a old man and his daughter comming towards us with a hot bucket of water and tea.
> 
> We in the Army are not allowed to take anything from the civilians but we hardly had any choice so half of the team took tea(just incase the tea is poisoned).I was the among the ones who didnt take tea but i dipped my feet in the hot water...and it felt soo good that i felt like kissing the old man.
> 
> There are other incidents also where school children used to wave at us and people came to us for photographs.Not every one is against us there.
> 
> *Me--Hmmm..thanks for sharing soo much with me and i hope you get to wear the maroon beret soon.



OMG gr8 buddy gr8,,,,,,excellent work u jus made my day. Just saw it after came from ofc and biliv me all my boss's doses vanished away at the moment 
u provided a lot of ammunition for dreaming and imagining so dat i can imagine it while working,sleeping ,eating and...most importantly while sh@#ing.............
 Hats off to u dude really nice piece of info especially regarding BPJ, DRONES and Spl OPs
even well reputed jurno wud havn't been able to get these kindda info out and that thrashing incident is just mind blowing.

Here some of the guys remark u as a fanboy for ur "WOW" gesture then its from my side it's really a "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" thing..i want to tell every one here dat we all r here gr8 gr8 fanboys and jingos of indian armed forces and of our motherland and proud to like this till the last breath of ours , may others are som internal agency funded agent but certainly we r not,...............JAI HIND

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## Koovie

bigzgvr4 said:


> no problem
> 
> ladies black cats
> 
> 
> 
> i think mp-7 be better



Interesting .... are these the NSG orders for the MP 5 series ???? 
@Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


BTW: The title is not appropriate: The MP 5 is still the most widely used SF SMG and the NSG has operators with Sig AR in every team to have some punch against armoured targets.


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## Star Wars

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thank you very much and the second pic you posted is of Force 1 Mumbai Police not NSG which has been posted a 100 times.



Relax..... why are you getting so worked up over some odd pictures


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## bigzgvr4

Koovie said:


> Interesting .... are these the NSG orders for the MP 5 series ????
> @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=28303" target="_blank">Abingdonboy</a></u> @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=30442" target="_blank">COLDHEARTED AVIATOR</a></u>
> 
> 
> BTW: The title is not appropriate: The MP 5 is still the most widely used SF SMG and the NSG has operators with Sig AR in every team to have some punch against armoured targets.



KOovie they should ditch the mp-5 in favour for mp-7 watch this video the penetration test of mp-7 vs mp-5 watch the whole video


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## saumyasupratik

bigzgvr4 said:


> wow DUDE CLearly you dont know In mumbai attack and parliment Attack Nag commandos were the ones that responded first to the incident
> 
> heres another pic of one
> 
> like Nag commandos aka Black cats....... Pakistan has a tier one Response unit too But its under armys command it is know as al-zarrar battalion



NSG is similar to the GSG9, GIGN, HRT, GOE, Alpha and EKO Cobra etc.None of them including the NSG come under the military or the MoD, but are Paramilitary/Gendarmerie and come under the home ministry/interior ministry or in the case of Alpha and HRT under the FSB and FBI respectively which are the internal intelligence agencies of Russia and USA.
Under most circumstances the countries use the above mentioned units when dealing with a terrorist situation on their home soil instead of military SF/CT units.For example Russia had MVD Spetsnaz and FSB Alpha and Vympel units deployed during Moscow Theatre Siege and Beslan School Siege not the Ground Forces GRU Spetsnaz.

Military CT units like the CAG, DEVGRU and SAS CRW come under their respective armed forces branches which is the similar case with Al-Zarrar Battalion of the PA.For the most part they are deployed outside of the country they belong to, but due to their versatility and training their CT role may overlap with other roles like Covert Operations, Hostage Rescue in Foreign Soil and Direct Action etc.

During Mumbai Attacks the first Responders were the Mumbai Police ATS after that the Navy MARCOS which was the only unit capable of taking the terrorists down and containing the situation when the NSG wasn't available.When the NSG arrived the MARCOS stepped down and provided support instead with snipers and perimeter defence of the Taj hotel.During the Parliament attack the attackers were killed by the CRPF retinue present there before the NSG could arrive.


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## bigzgvr4

saumyasupratik said:


> NSG is similar to the GSG9, GIGN, HRT, GOE, Alpha and EKO Cobra etc.None of them including the NSG come under the military or the MoD, but are Paramilitary/Gendarmerie and come under the home ministry/interior ministry or in the case of Alpha and HRT under the FSB and FBI respectively which are the internal intelligence agencies of Russia and USA.
> Under most circumstances the countries use the above mentioned units when dealing with a terrorist situation on their home soil instead of military SF/CT units.For example Russia had MVD Spetsnaz and FSB Alpha and Vympel units deployed during Moscow Theatre Siege and Beslan School Siege not the Ground Forces GRU Spetsnaz.
> 
> Military CT units like the CAG, DEVGRU and SAS CRW come under their respective armed forces branches which is the similar case with Al-Zarrar Battalion of the PA.For the most part they are deployed outside of the country they belong to, but due to their versatility and training their CT role may overlap with other roles like Covert Operations, Hostage Rescue in Foreign Soil and Direct Action etc.



I agree with only this part of what you posted and its was Black Cats and Nag Commandos that responded and Marcos came in after wards

heres to all the D BAGS that said their is no such thing as Nag commandos




@Trolls happy now i gave the link/source


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Interesting .... are these the NSG orders for the MP 5 series ????
> @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> 
> BTW: The title is not appropriate: The MP 5 is still the most widely used SF SMG and the NSG has operators with Sig AR in every team to have some punch against armoured targets.


The figures are for all MP-5 orders made by the MHA in 2010-11 AFAIK. And no this is not all for NSG- this is for some ~20,000 units but the NSG is only ~8,000 strong and doesn't need a new batch of MP5s every year. Some of these are for NSG- the more advanced variants with pictanny rails and RDS. Most are for CAPFs like CISF and CRPF. 


As far as the Mp-7 goes- the NSG has moulded itself around the MP-5 and every operator is incredibly skilled with this weapon, when an extra punch is needed they use the SIG-552/3 with 2-3 operators carrying this weapon in every fire team along with 1 breached who carries an automatic shotgun. 

In the future the NSG will likely go for the MSMC as it is effectively the Indian MP-7.



bigzgvr4 said:


> I agree with only this part of what you posted and its was Black Cats and Nag Commandos that responded and Marcos came in after wards
> 
> heres to all the D BAGS that said their is no such thing as Nag commandos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Trolls happy now i gave the link/source


Not true- the MARCOs were the first specialised unit on the scene in Mumbai but there numbers never exceeded 15 operators. The NSG arrived later via an IAF transport from Delhi. MARCOs are stationed in Mumbai as the city is home to one of the largest IN bases around. 


Nowhere in the image does the term NAG appear. And now youare sayingnthere are black cats and NAG- are you high? This image is purely relating to CRPF COBRAs. Seriously- give it a rest now. You've had your laugh.


----------



## bigzgvr4

Abingdonboy said:


> The figures are for all MP-5 orders made by the MHA in 2010-11 AFAIK. And no this is not all for NSG- this is for some ~20,000 units but the NSG is only ~8,000 strong and doesn't need a new batch of MP5s every year. Some of these are for NSG- the more advanced variants with pictanny rails and RDS. Most are for CAPFs like CISF and CRPF.
> 
> 
> As far as the Mp-7 goes- the NSG has moulded itself around the MP-5 and every operator is incredibly skilled with this weapon, when an extra punch is needed they use the SIG-552/3 with 2-3 operators carrying this weapon in every fire team along with 1 breached who carries an automatic shotgun.
> 
> In the future the NSG will likely go for the MSMC as it is effectively the Indian MP-7.
> 
> 
> Not true- the MARCOs were the first specialised unit on the scene in Mumbai but there numbers never exceeded 15 operators. The NSG arrived later via an IAF transport from Delhi. MARCOs are stationed in Mumbai as the city is home to one of the largest IN bases around.
> 
> 
> Nowhere in the image does the term NAG appear. And now youare sayingnthere are black cats and NAG- are you high? This image is purely relating to CRPF *COBRAs*. Seriously- give it a rest now. You've had your laugh.



what does that means in hindi let me guess wait for it wait for it its "NAG"

and the mumbai attack was spread out their is now way that 15 marcos nuetrilezed all the terrorists may be they were their but it was the black cats and nag commandos or as you call it in UNGRAZI Cobra commandos


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## whitefox011

wdf did i just read ^^^


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bigzgvr4 said:


> I agree with only this part of what you posted and its was Black Cats and Nag Commandos that responded and Marcos came in after wards
> 
> heres to all the D BAGS that said their is no such thing as Nag commandos



That is a Cobra commando and not a NAG commmando....nothing to do with Special forces.



bigzgvr4 said:


> what does that means in hindi let me guess wait for it wait for it its "NAG"
> 
> and the mumbai attack was spread out their is now way that 15 marcos nuetrilezed all the terrorists may be they were their but it was the black cats and nag commandos or as you call it in UNGRAZI Cobra commandos



COBRA Commandos are for anti naxal operations.They were never a part of 26/11.Urban warfare is not their speciality.They are only into jungle warfare.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jiki said:


> OMG gr8 buddy gr8,,,,,,excellent work u jus made my day. Just saw it after came from ofc and biliv me all my boss's doses vanished away at the moment
> u provided a lot of ammunition for dreaming and imagining so dat i can imagine it while working,sleeping ,eating and...most importantly while sh@#ing.............
> Hats off to u dude really nice piece of info especially regarding BPJ, DRONES and Spl OPs
> even well reputed jurno wud havn't been able to get these kindda info out and that thrashing incident is just mind blowing.
> 
> Here some of the guys remark u as a fanboy for ur "WOW" gesture then its from my side it's really a "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" "WOW" thing..i want to tell every one here dat we all r here gr8 gr8 fanboys and jingos of indian armed forces and of our motherland and proud to like this till the last breath of ours , may others are som internal agency funded agent but certainly we r not,...............JAI HIND



Yeah man...I and many others here share the same feeling.Most of the time when i am not doing anything i am just thinking of Indian SF.And my aim is to interact with ARMY SF operator one day.

This is the only reason i have joined a Defence forum otherwise i have no interest in anything else apart from Special Forces.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Interesting .... are these the NSG orders for the MP 5 series ????
> @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> 
> BTW: The title is not appropriate: The MP 5 is still the most widely used SF SMG and the NSG has operators with Sig AR in every team to have some punch against armoured targets.



The MP5 with the NSG is gonna get relaced if i am not wrong and i think i have seen NSG operators with MP7.They are in the middle of upgradation mate so lets wait and see what happends in the next 2 years.Their AR needs to be changed and we have seen a few pics of them with different ARs.














Star Wars said:


> Relax..... why are you getting so worked up over some odd pictures



Dude,cant you see he is derailing the thread purposely.He started of in another thread bashing Indian SF and now also he is continuing this while posting old pics and repeatedly calling them NAG again and again.

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## arp2041




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## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


>



Nice work mate a few points:

-GARUD, MARCOs and PARA (SF) use the GALIL sniper rifle
-GARUD and MARCOs use the NEGEV 
-CRPF COBRA use the X-95
-BSF use the X-95 as well as the Greyhounds of AP polce
-RR and PARA (SF) use the Shipon


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## arp2041

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice work mate a few points:
> 
> -GARUD, MARCOs and PARA (SF) use the GALIL sniper rifle
> -GARUD and MARCOs use the NEGEV
> -CRPF COBRA use the X-95
> -BSF use the X-95 as well as the Greyhounds of AP polce
> -RR and PARA (SF) *use the Shipon*



You mean B-300?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

arp2041 said:


> You mean B-300?



No...B 300 is not in use by the IA.

Shipon and B 300 are different systems.

Shipon was launched after B 300 and uses the same propulsion system as B 300.


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## mirage2K

*Marcos*


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## mirage2K

*Indian Special Forces History & Future*

India's Special Forces- History and Future of Special Forces

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## ranjeet

Kudos for the hard work and effort put in by each and every member for this particular thread !!! 

respect.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

mirage2K said:


> *Indian Special Forces History & Future*
> 
> India's Special Forces- History and Future of Special Forces



Thanks for posting.



> It is believed that a Pakistani commanding officer was captured by the commandos during one of the battles fought in the area.



LOL...Only one word---WOW!


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## bigzgvr4

*cobra commandos(nag commando in hindi or naga commandos)*


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ARMY Special Forces

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## Koovie

bigzgvr4 said:


> *cobra commandos(nag commando in hindi or naga commandos)*



3rd pic are not Cobras... last one is not a Cobra member as well.... and the snakes  ?!

These guys are Cobras:

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ARMY Special Forces



Awesome find dude  

Everyone loves the Tavors.... we should consider buying a license instead of importing tens of thousands of them ^^


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>



Is the gun on the right also Tavor ??


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## kurup

Koovie said:


> Awesome find dude
> 
> Everyone loves the Tavors.... we should consider buying a license instead of importing tens of thousands of them ^^



I think we are developing the Micro Tavor locally by the name Zittara .


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## mirage2K

kurup said:


> I think we are developing the Micro Tavor locally by the name Zittara .


Micro Tavor already in service known as X-95. Zittara is the Indian name for the same. The speciality of Indian Zittara is that it is modified to use the MINSAS 5.56 x 30 catridge whereas MTAR21 uses the 5.56 x 45 cartridge and can be converted to 9mm with barrel change

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> Is the gun on the right also Tavor ??



Looks like a SVD to me.

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> Is the gun on the right also Tavor ??





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Looks like a SVD to me.



Does it not look like a SIG-552/3 to anyone else? The gas ejection holes are circular and at the top of the rifle not the bottom as in the SVD. Also this rifle doesn't have the front iron sights present on the SVD. Lastly the barrel looks far too short to be a SVD/sniper rifle. 


Would be the first time we've seen a SIG rifle in PARA (SF) though.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Does it not look like a SIG-552/3 to anyone else? The gas ejection holes are circular and at the top of the rifle not the bottom as in the SVD. Also this rifle doesn't have the front iron sights present on the SVD. Lastly the barrel looks far too short to be a SVD/sniper rifle.
> 
> 
> Would be the first time we've seen a SIG rifle in PARA (SF) though.



I think you are right.Its not a SVD.But i am not too sure it is SIG 552.The barrel appears longer than a SIG 552 barrel.


----------



## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


> Does it not look like a SIG-552/3 to anyone else? The gas ejection holes are circular and at the top of the rifle not the bottom as in the SVD. Also this rifle doesn't have the front iron sights present on the SVD. Lastly the barrel looks far too short to be a SVD/sniper rifle.
> 
> 
> Would be the first time we've seen a SIG rifle in PARA (SF) though.



You must be right .Looks very much similar.














COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I think you are right.Its not a SVD.But i am not too sure it is SIG 552.*The barrel appears longer than a SIG 552 barrel*.



I also had the same doubt but the picture I gave above shows the SIG 553 with a longer barrel .

Here is another one ,

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> You must be right .Looks very much similar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also had the same doubt but the picture I gave above shows the SIG 553 with a longer barrel .
> 
> Here is another one ,



Yeah man..this looks much like the one SF operator has.

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## hkdas

guys check out the video on youtube "watch?v=EkSJQ4h3cDM" ( i can't provide the complete link) it is the video of SF counter terror training. 
it was uploaded in jan 30 2013 named as "NSG commando". must watch this video!

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> guys check out the video on youtube "watch?v=EkSJQ4h3cDM" ( i can't provide the complete link) it is the video of SF counter terror training.
> it was uploaded in jan 30 2013 named as "NSG commando". must watch this video!








 

Nice find 

Unfortunately the uploader had to use the worst mobile cam :/

I cannot see much of their gear because of this..


*PS: Ok.... if you look at 2:13 you can see Tavors (If my eyes are not deceiving me).

So I guess this video is showing military SF...... or the NSG has acquired Tavors, but that is unlikely.*

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## mirage2K

hkdas said:


> guys check out the video on youtube "watch?v=EkSJQ4h3cDM" ( i can't provide the complete link) it is the video of SF counter terror training.
> it was uploaded in jan 30 2013 named as "NSG commando". must watch this video!


doesn't seem to be NSG but nice find

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## kbd-raaf

Koovie said:


> Nice find
> 
> Unfortunately the uploader had to use the worst mobile cam :/
> 
> I cannot see much of their gear because of this..
> 
> 
> PS: Ok.... if you look at 2:13 you can see Tavors (If my eyes are not deceiving me).
> 
> So I guess this video is showing military SF...... or the NSG has acquired Tavors, but that is unlikely.



Looks like that video was recorded with a toaster.

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## hkdas

watch this 2.5min video on marcos by rajeev ranjan "&#2344;&#2375;&#2357;&#2368; &#2325;&#2375; &#2332;&#2366;&#2306;&#2348;&#2366;&#2332;&#2364; &#2350;&#2366;&#2352;&#2381;&#2325;&#2379;&#2360;" from ndtv home site

www_ndtv_com/video/player/news/video-story/215663 (replace "_" with "." you will get the link)

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## hkdas

kbd-raaf said:


> Looks like that video was recorded with a toaster.



they are using tavor. and they have army uniform. they are not NSG


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Nice find
> 
> Unfortunately the uploader had to use the worst mobile cam :/
> 
> I cannot see much of their gear because of this..
> 
> 
> *PS: Ok.... if you look at 2:13 you can see Tavors (If my eyes are not deceiving me).
> 
> So I guess this video is showing military SF...... or the NSG has acquired Tavors, but that is unlikely.*



Army SF..Bcoz you can see army fatigues with Tavor and Army truck.

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## Water Car Engineer

Koovie said:


> Nice find
> 
> Unfortunately the uploader had to use the worst mobile cam :/
> 
> I cannot see much of their gear because of this..
> 
> 
> *PS: Ok.... if you look at 2:13 you can see Tavors (If my eyes are not deceiving me).
> 
> So I guess this video is showing military SF...... or the NSG has acquired Tavors, but that is unlikely.*



Can they give them proper gloves?? Not these winter mittens? Cause you can seem them several times putting it back on and off.


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## Water Car Engineer

Whos bright idea was it to give these guys these mittens??


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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Whos bright idea was it to give these guys these mittens??



The're not mittens but gloves used during fast roping from helos. US SEALS use them too. But I agree they should be issued with proper combat gloves that can be used in fast roping too.


----------



## IndoUS

For the love of god check the pic before you post only one or two are of Special Forces, the rest are of CRPF or BSF. And please try not to post old pics, if someone wants to view old pics they can go back to beginning of the thread view the pics.


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## Dillinger

bigzgvr4 said:


> SO the PIcs in that qoute is a central police doing a beach Assault excersice ???????????????



They need to. The CRPF is currently involved in COIN ops against the naxals which requires painstakingly complicated..infil/exfil, jungle warfare training and proficiency in seamlessly transitioning from foliage to semi urban and rural combat zones. So yes. On the other hand the 2 guys in black nomex and over-alls with tavors are indeed specops operators..MARCOS to be exact..same with the beach landing party getting off of the inflatable boat.


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## bigzgvr4

cloud_9 said:


> ^^ And you never won against these clowns.Now gauge your level of clowniness


lets get back to topic


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Anyways,guys check out this movie about an Indian Army Para Commando.Excellent Martial arts and action.I particularly like the speech which the Commanding officer of 9 PARA SF gives to the Politician about what a ARMY SF Operator is made of from 4:00 to 6:00

[video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTYyMDIzNjAw.html[/video]


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## Abingdonboy

bigzgvr4 said:


> lets get back to topic



This is such a stupid image that reflects the ignorance of the Indian media in defence matters. At most there are 4 commands not 6 as the SFF and NSG aren't SFs. 


Anyway this is being addressed:

Joint Special Operations Command within 5 yrs: official | Millennium Post


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## Mike_Brando

bigzgvr4 said:


> is this CRpf Unit koovie
> 
> thanks


hey mate the one in the picture is Master Shifuji a martial arts expert(precisely a kung fu expert) who has made a training program on CQB for the state police forces and the personnel in the above picture belong to the Anti-Terrorism Squad of the Madhya Pradesh Police.they are just a bunch of regular policemen and even the CRPF has a much better trained and armed force than these ill equipped state police forces.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> they are Light Reconnaisence Vechiles designed for Urban Envirement as well as at low terrains which basically makes them a kinda SF Vechile my brother. The picture that @DESERT FIGHTER gave you is a Turkish product
> 
> Otokar Akrep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Not really man... several such variants are produced by HIT and even exported to Iraq...





kbd-raaf said:


> Israeli origin, Indian owned
> 
> The 'Pakistani' RCWS is imported too.



Not really its produced by Pakistan.


----------



## li0nheart

Mike_Brando said:


> hey mate the one in the picture is Master Shifuji a martial arts expert(precisely a kung fu expert) who has made a training program on CQB for the state police forces and the personnel in the above picture belong to the Anti-Terrorism Squad of the Madhya Pradesh Police.they are just a bunch of regular policemen and even the CRPF has a much better trained and armed force than these ill equipped state police forces.



 "INNER PEACE!!"

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## kbd-raaf

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not really man... several such variants are produced by HIT and even exported to Iraq...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really its produced by Pakistan.



Linky please?

The Indian RCWS is license built Israeli product.

In any case it's not a difficult task to build such a machine.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

kbd-raaf said:


> Linky please?
> 
> The Indian RCWS is license built Israeli product.
> 
> In any case it's not a difficult task to build such a machine.


 
How many operational vehicles do use it ? while our RCWS is used in AKs,AZs,Mohafiz armoured jeeps,Armoured vehicles etc produced by HIT...... not much is known about it... but here is a picture:







Also exported to Iraq etc.


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## kbd-raaf

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How many operational vehicles do use it ? while our RCWS is used in AKs,AZs,Mohafiz armoured jeeps,Armoured vehicles etc produced by HIT...... not much is known about it... but here is a picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also exported to Iraq etc.



AFAIK it's not in operational service, the rights to it were bought by the Indian OFB and then a limited number were produced.

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## SPFG

No actually we mass produce it. Based on Samson Remote Controlled Weapon Station.

Here's link.

Ordnance Factory Board

Note : I have strong reason to believe that it has a 12.7mm gun as well as nearly all weapons in same class.


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## gslv mk3

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So roof less 1200cc gypsies armed with MGs is something special?


never underestimate a gypsy!!http://www.marutisuzukimotorsport.com/images/gallerybig/Big5420047_311975792199352_2157.jpg


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## SPFG

gslv mk3 said:


> never underestimate a gypsy!!http://www.marutisuzukimotorsport.com/images/gallerybig/Big5420047_311975792199352_2157.jpg



Inke pas tyre tak nahi hain gaddi ka sochte! Here's India's LRV

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## hkdas

watch video "showcasing india's naval might" in youtube showing marcos at 6:33 and 14:14 [(link: www_youtube_com/watch?v=l7v0Hbdc7dE) replace '_' with '.']


----------



## hkdas

watch this 2.5min video on marcos by rajeev ranjan "&#2344;&#2375;&#2357;&#2368; &#2325;&#2375; &#2332;&#2366;&#2306;&#2348;&#2366;&#2332;&#2364; &#2350;&#2366;&#2352;&#2381;&#2325;&#2379;&#2360;" from ndtv home site 

www_ndtv_com/video/player/news/video-story/215663 (replace "_" with "." you will get the link)

must watch this!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

gslv mk3 said:


> never underestimate a gypsy!!http://www.marutisuzukimotorsport.com/images/gallerybig/Big5420047_311975792199352_2157.jpg



Paa ji.... im willing to bet money on a Vigo over ur gypsy any day!


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## SPFG

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Paa ji.... im willing to bet money on a Vigo over ur gypsy any day!



GYPSY

Maruti MG413W "Gypsy King"
Dimensions
Length 4,010 mm (157.9 in)
Width 1,540 mm (60.6 in)
Height 1875/1845 mm*
Wheelbase 2,375 mm (93.5 in)
Front Track 1,300 mm (51.2 in)
Rear Track 1,310 mm (51.6 in)
Kerb Weight 985 kg/1, 040 kg*
Gross Vehicle Weight 1585 kg/1,620 kg*
Engine
Type G13BB MPFI 16 Valve Gasoline
Cylinders 4
Displacement 1298 cc
Maximum Power 80 bhp (60 kW; 81 PS) @6000 rpm
Maximum Torque 103 N·m (76 lb·ft) @ 4500 rpm
Transmission Type Five forward (all Synchromesh), One reverse
Transfer gearbox Two-speed
Type constant mesh
Transfer gear ratio High : 1.409; Low : 2.268
Suspension Front and Rear Rear Leaf spring with Double action damper
Brakes With Booster
Front Disc 250 mm
Rear Drum 220 mm
Tyres F78-15-4 PR 205/70R15
Capacities
Fuel tank 40 L (11 US gal; 9 imp gal)
Engine oil 4 L (1.1 US gal; 0.9 imp gal)

It is primarily an off-road vehicle, or a vehicle for rough unprepared roads, as it offers neither a ride quality nor an interior comparable to that of a modern SUV.

Vigo is an SUV. Wo bhi banate hain hum.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

SPFG said:


> GYPSY
> 
> Maruti MG413W "Gypsy King"
> Dimensions
> Length 4,010 mm (157.9 in)
> Width 1,540 mm (60.6 in)
> Height 1875/1845 mm*
> Wheelbase 2,375 mm (93.5 in)
> Front Track 1,300 mm (51.2 in)
> Rear Track 1,310 mm (51.6 in)
> Kerb Weight 985 kg/1, 040 kg*
> Gross Vehicle Weight 1585 kg/1,620 kg*
> Engine
> Type G13BB MPFI 16 Valve Gasoline
> Cylinders 4
> Displacement 1298 cc
> Maximum Power 80 bhp (60 kW; 81 PS) @6000 rpm
> Maximum Torque 103 N·m (76 lb·ft) @ 4500 rpm
> Transmission Type Five forward (all Synchromesh), One reverse
> Transfer gearbox Two-speed
> Type constant mesh
> Transfer gear ratio High : 1.409; Low : 2.268
> Suspension Front and Rear Rear Leaf spring with Double action damper
> Brakes With Booster
> Front Disc 250 mm
> Rear Drum 220 mm
> Tyres F78-15-4 PR 205/70R15
> Capacities
> Fuel tank 40 L (11 US gal; 9 imp gal)
> Engine oil 4 L (1.1 US gal; 0.9 imp gal)
> 
> It is primarily an off-road vehicle, or a vehicle for rough unprepared roads, as it offers neither a ride quality nor an interior comparable to that of a modern SUV.
> 
> Vigo is an SUV. Wo bhi banate hain hum.



Vigo is a truck not an SUV... and so does Pakistan and i also own one!


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## Roybot

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How many operational vehicles do use it ? while our RCWS is used in AKs,AZs,*Mohafiz armoured jeeps,Armoured vehicles* etc produced by HIT...... not much is known about it... but here is a picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also exported to Iraq etc.



Nice Deadly embarrassment 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-defence-industry/196800-hits-muhafiz-apc-proves-deadly-embarrassment-2.html



> *Several policemen were killed inside these vehicles by low-calibre bullets though these APCs were supposed to be bullet- and bomb-proof. At least 18 vehicles launched in the operation were hit by ordinary bullets which pierced them, making holes and killing or injuring the policemen inside. One type of APC cost Rs20 million each while the other was Rs54 million per piece approximately. *

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Roybot said:


> Nice Deadly embarrassment
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-defence-industry/196800-hits-muhafiz-apc-proves-deadly-embarrassment-2.html



Only a "turd" wouldnt read the thread to get his claim (a blog) debunked and the pics of vehicles i posted are the newer versions and not the older versions used by police.. and 60+ of the same vehicles were sold to Iraq ... along with dozens of other SAAD APCs..


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Only a "turd" wouldnt read the thread to get his claim (a blog) debunked and the pics of vehicles i posted are the newer versions and not the older versions used by police.. and 60+ of the same vehicles were sold to Iraq ... along with dozens of other SAAD APCs..



I wouldn't be using the Iraq example to back up my statements- they have been found to do zero product testing prior to orders/operational use. They'll buy anything if the salesman is good enough.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> I wouldn't be using the Iraq example to back up my statements- they have been found to do zero product testing prior to orders/operational use. They'll buy anything if the salesman is good enough.



Yes im sure US which purchased those weapons for Iraq isnt a fool... nor are other countries tht are using Pakistani weapon systems.. again read the thread and see the claims debunked.... and the pictures i posted are different versions(vehicles) used by the military..


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## Abingdonboy

@DESERT FIGHTER what are you trying to prove here? You've come on the INDIAN SF thread and now we are discussing the pros and cons of the Pakistani armoured vehicles industry????

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER what are you trying to prove here? You've come on the INDIAN SF thread and now we are discussing the pros and cons of the Pakistani armoured vehicles industry????



It wasnt me who claimed tht indian sfs are "better equiped" than Pakistani SFs...... and certainly not me who posted bs to prove tht a vehicle was inferior and so on... i only replied.... which is my right..


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It wasnt me who claimed tht indian sfs are "better equiped" than Pakistani SFs...... and certainly not me who posted bs to prove tht a vehicle was inferior and so on... i only replied.... which is my right..



What has this HIT APC got to do with SFs? It is not a SF vehicle.


If you're trying to point score and make out the Pakistan automaotive industery is somehow more succesful than the Indian- you have lost before you even started.

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## gslv mk3

DESERT FIGHTER said:


>


 @Abingdonboy does mahindra AXE belong to the same category??


----------



## Abingdonboy

gslv mk3 said:


> @Abingdonboy does mahindra AXE belong to the same category??


No the AXE is a utility vehicle- not an armoured combat vehicle.

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## gslv mk3

Abingdonboy said:


> No the AXE is a utility vehicle- not an armoured combat vehicle.



oops!!I wrote AXE instead of Marksmen..sorry...!!!!

The ones delivered to chile seemed well armoured..


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

gslv mk3 said:


> @Abingdonboy does mahindra AXE belong to the same category??




Latest version:

*Mohafiz III
*


----------



## Abingdonboy

gslv mk3 said:


> oops!!I wrote AXE instead of Marksmen..sorry...!!!!
> 
> The ones delivered to chile seemed well armoured..



Yes the Marksmen is comparable to the HIT products but they are relatively unproven as India and Chile don't have the same war-like situation facing Pakistan. But the marksmen has been tested in India, S.America and the Mid East for protection and has scored well in every instance.

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Latest version:
> 
> *Mohafiz III
> *


And??????


Seriously Mate what are you trying to prove?


India too makes such products:



















































Unlike Pakistan, the Indian automotive defence companies have the might of some of the largest automotive manufacturers behind them. Pakistan will continue to churn out limited numbers of specilist products but nowhere on the scale, size and capability as India- long term.

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## kurup

@Abingdonboy : The loser has been trying to derail the thread for a long time .

The best will be to ignore the troll.


----------



## SPFG

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Vigo is a truck not an SUV... and so does Pakistan and i also own one!



The Automotive industry has been an active and growing field in Pakistan for a long time, however not as much established to figure in the prominent list of the top automotive industries, having astable annual production 100-170 thousands only. Despite significant production volumes, transfer of technology and localization of vehicle components remains low, and only a few car models are assembled in the country while customers have a very small variety of vehicles to choose from. The lack of competition in the local auto industry due to the presence of just three assemblers -and only one small car assembler- has resulted in technological stagnation of the industry; small cars produced by Paksuzuki, the country's largest auto assembler, in the country are globally retired models utilizing obsolete technology and not offering any safety features. 

Toyota Hilux Vigo (SUV)

Layout	Front engine, rear-wheel drive / four-wheel drive
Engine	2.0 L 100 kW (134 hp) I4 1TR-FE
2.5 L 75 kW (101 hp) I4 2KD-FTV turbo diesel only
2.5 L 88 kW (118 hp) I4 2KD-FTV intercooled turbo diesel
2.5 L 106 kW (142 hp) I4 2KD-FTV intercooled VN turbo diesel
2.7 L 118 kW (158 hp) I4 2TR-FE
3.0 L 121 kW (162 hp) I4 1KD-FTV intercooled VN turbo diesel
4.0 L 176 kW (236 hp) 1GR-FE V6
Transmission	5-speed manual
4-speed automatic
5-speed automatic
Wheelbase	Single Cab: 2,750 mm (108.3 in) 3,085 mm (121.5 in)
Length	Regular Cab: 4,975 mm (195.9 in)
Extended Cab: 5,255 mm (206.9 in)
Crew Cab: 5,130 mm (202.0 in)
Width	Regular Cab & All 2WD Models: 1,760 mm (69.3 in)
Crew Cab & Extended Cab: 1,835 mm (72.2 in)
Height	4WD Regular Cab: 1,795 mm (70.7 in)
4WD Crew Cab & Extended Cab: 1,810 mm (71.3 in)
2WD Regular Cab: 1,680 mm (66.1 in)
2WD Extended & Crew Cab: 1,695 mm (66.7 in)

Maruti Gypsy (LRV)

Dimensions
Length 4,010 mm (157.9 in)
Width 1,540 mm (60.6 in)
Height 1875/1845 mm*
Wheelbase 2,375 mm (93.5 in)
Front Track 1,300 mm (51.2 in)
Rear Track 1,310 mm (51.6 in)
Kerb Weight 985 kg/1, 040 kg*
Gross Vehicle Weight 1585 kg/1,620 kg*
Engine
Type G13BB MPFI 16 Valve Gasoline
Cylinders 4
Displacement 1298 cc
Maximum Power 80 bhp (60 kW; 81 PS) @6000 rpm
Maximum Torque 103 N·m (76 lb·ft) @ 4500 rpm
Transmission Type Five forward (all Synchromesh), One reverse
Transfer gearbox Two-speed
Type constant mesh
Transfer gear ratio High : 1.409; Low : 2.268
Suspension Front and Rear Rear Leaf spring with Double action damper
Brakes With Booster
Front Disc 250 mm
Rear Drum 220 mm
Tyres F78-15-4 PR 205/70R15
Capacities
Fuel tank 40 L (11 US gal; 9 imp gal)
Engine oil 4 L (1.1 US gal; 0.9 imp gal)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>



Another pic of a CRPF COBRA sniper-spotter team. The CRPF has used these guys to good affect in the last few years this force was raised. They've started to get advanced bolt-action sniper rifles to replace the SVDs AFAIK.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Another pic of a CRPF COBRA sniper-spotter team. The CRPF has used these guys to good affect in the last few years this force was raised. They've started to get advanced bolt-action sniper rifles to replace the SVDs AFAIK.



Ya i know...i posted it here coz the last pic was also posted here.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

SPFG said:


> The Automotive industry has been an active and growing field in Pakistan for a long time, however not as much established to figure in the prominent list of the top automotive industries, having astable annual production 100-170 thousands only. Despite significant production volumes, transfer of technology and localization of vehicle components remains low, and only a few car models are assembled in the country while customers have a very small variety of vehicles to choose from. The lack of competition in the local auto industry due to the presence of just three assemblers -and only one small car assembler- has resulted in technological stagnation of the industry; small cars produced by Paksuzuki, the country's largest auto assembler, in the country are globally retired models utilizing obsolete technology and not offering any safety features.
> 
> Toyota Hilux Vigo (SUV)
> 
> Layout	Front engine, rear-wheel drive / four-wheel drive
> Engine	2.0 L 100 kW (134 hp) I4 1TR-FE
> 2.5 L 75 kW (101 hp) I4 2KD-FTV turbo diesel only
> 2.5 L 88 kW (118 hp) I4 2KD-FTV intercooled turbo diesel
> 2.5 L 106 kW (142 hp) I4 2KD-FTV intercooled VN turbo diesel
> 2.7 L 118 kW (158 hp) I4 2TR-FE
> 3.0 L 121 kW (162 hp) I4 1KD-FTV intercooled VN turbo diesel
> 4.0 L 176 kW (236 hp) 1GR-FE V6
> Transmission	5-speed manual
> 4-speed automatic
> 5-speed automatic
> Wheelbase	Single Cab: 2,750 mm (108.3 in) 3,085 mm (121.5 in)
> Length	Regular Cab: 4,975 mm (195.9 in)
> Extended Cab: 5,255 mm (206.9 in)
> Crew Cab: 5,130 mm (202.0 in)
> Width	Regular Cab & All 2WD Models: 1,760 mm (69.3 in)
> Crew Cab & Extended Cab: 1,835 mm (72.2 in)
> Height	4WD Regular Cab: 1,795 mm (70.7 in)
> 4WD Crew Cab & Extended Cab: 1,810 mm (71.3 in)
> 2WD Regular Cab: 1,680 mm (66.1 in)
> 2WD Extended & Crew Cab: 1,695 mm (66.7 in)
> 
> Maruti Gypsy (LRV)
> 
> Dimensions
> Length 4,010 mm (157.9 in)
> Width 1,540 mm (60.6 in)
> Height 1875/1845 mm*
> Wheelbase 2,375 mm (93.5 in)
> Front Track 1,300 mm (51.2 in)
> Rear Track 1,310 mm (51.6 in)
> Kerb Weight 985 kg/1, 040 kg*
> Gross Vehicle Weight 1585 kg/1,620 kg*
> Engine
> Type G13BB MPFI 16 Valve Gasoline
> Cylinders 4
> Displacement 1298 cc
> Maximum Power 80 bhp (60 kW; 81 PS) @6000 rpm
> Maximum Torque 103 N·m (76 lb·ft) @ 4500 rpm
> Transmission Type Five forward (all Synchromesh), One reverse
> Transfer gearbox Two-speed
> Type constant mesh
> Transfer gear ratio High : 1.409; Low : 2.268
> Suspension Front and Rear Rear Leaf spring with Double action damper
> Brakes With Booster
> Front Disc 250 mm
> Rear Drum 220 mm
> Tyres F78-15-4 PR 205/70R15
> Capacities
> Fuel tank 40 L (11 US gal; 9 imp gal)
> Engine oil 4 L (1.1 US gal; 0.9 imp gal)



Seriously:





V
S


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

^^Dude,Take your fetish with SUVs somewhere else.

This is a SF thread.

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## SPFG

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ^^Dude,Take your fetish with SUVs somewhere else.
> 
> This is a SF thread.



This loser's country assembles hilux in Karachi. We own Land rover and MANUFACTURE Pajero.

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## nishanth

this guy s holding f2000


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## kurup

*MARCOS*

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## Aka123

..........................................


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## hkdas

above photo is from indian navy site. right?


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> above photo is from indian navy site. right?



It's an ad they ran in the paper AFAIK.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> It's an ad they ran in the paper AFAIK.



i saw this in indian navy official site.

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> i saw this in indian navy official site.


Fair enough but AFAIK they also used it in newspaper ads.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Fair enough but AFAIK they also used it in newspaper ads.



could you please provide the link of that add?


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> could you please provide the link of that add?


Can't provide the link to this exact ad but here's another:









> *This slick recruitment advert for the Indian Navy was in today's newspapers*



Livefist: Supreme Commander To Scope Indian Navy Fleet


The "tick boxes"/"YOU DECIDE" is the give away.

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## hkdas

watch this video
???? ?? ??????? ??????? Video: NDTV.com


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## Aka123

Indian army boys.................

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> And??????
> 
> 
> Seriously Mate what are you trying to prove?
> 
> 
> India too makes such products:
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> 
> Unlike Pakistan, the Indian automotive defence companies have the might of some of the largest automotive manufacturers behind them. Pakistan will continue to churn out limited numbers of specilist products but nowhere on the scale, size and capability as India- long term.



Apart from the armoured van and 4x4 ... the MRAPs are produced from BAE and Paramount of SA and only shown during some exhibitions...





SPFG said:


> This loser's country assembles hilux in Karachi. We own Land rover and MANUFACTURE Pajero.





Loser... first try producing tank ammo... instead of importing it from russia.. as for owning land rover... just bcoz some indian guy bought LR doesnt mean you own it... and manufacturing pajero? dont tell me ur japanese..


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## pakdefender

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>



hahaha wtf ???

given some rifles are gas operated and air cooled ... it seems super duper indians have taken this basic principle to to a whole new level


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Aka123 said:


> Indian army boys.................



These are not SF mate..They are from Armoured Corp.

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## Aka123

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> These are not SF mate..They are from Armoured Corp.



Ohh ok, then probably I've posted in the wrong thread.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Apart from the armoured van and 4x4 ... the MRAPs are produced from BAE and Paramount of SA and only shown during some exhibitions...


What are you talking about? All of the above are made in India. Yes the Mahindra MRAP is the product of a JV between BAE and Mahindra (that is over now and Mahindra owns 100% of the rights to this). The TATA and Mahindra MRAPs are both in use with state and federal police units in India.

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## IBRIS

LOL at the Elite pakistani member comparing his sitara family cart with Indian manufacturing giants. Behsharmi kee bhi koi hudd hoti hai.

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## gslv mk3

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Loser... first try producing tank ammo... instead of importing it from russia.. as for owning land rover... just bcoz some indian guy bought LR doesnt mean you own it... and manufacturing pajero? dont tell me ur japanese..



So when did producing tank ammo became the epitome of a countries manufacturing industry/defence industry?? LR is owned by tata an Indian automotive manufacturing giant.Yes many of world automotive companys design and manufacture cars and SUVs in India,pajero is also manufactured here(unlike assembling in Pakistan)
If you are intrested in discsing about SUVS come to  Made in India Vehicles thread,stop polluting this one



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Apart from the armoured van and 4x4 ... the MRAPs are produced from BAE and Paramount of SA and only shown during some exhibitions...



Mahindra Marksmen is used in India by QRTs and also exported to chile

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## SPFG

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Apart from the armoured van and 4x4 ... the MRAPs are produced from BAE and Paramount of SA and only shown during some exhibitions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loser... first try producing tank ammo... instead of importing it from russia.. as for owning land rover... just bcoz some indian guy bought LR doesnt mean you own it... and manufacturing pajero? dont tell me ur japanese..



Hah FSAPDS rounds only for T90 is imported sometimes as barrel is different. We make T72 rounds and now T90 as no further reports of imports. Go and see who's No. 6 in Automobile manufacturing.

He're's your FSAPDS round. LOSER even T72 has 3 times more effective armor.

Performance
Muzzle velocity 1730 metres/sec
Services pressure at 21oC 4845 Kg Cm2
Accuracy at 1000 metres:
SD (Horizontal) 0.3 mil
SD (Vertical) 0.3 mil
Penetration at 2,000M 460mm, against RHA target at Zero Obliquity, conforming to DEF-STAN 95-13/2

http://www.pof.gov.pk/TAT_125mmapfsds.aspx

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## DESERT FIGHTER

SPFG said:


> Hah FSAPDS rounds only for T90 is imported sometimes as barrel is different. We make T72 rounds and now T90 as no further reports of imports. Go and see who's No. 6 in Automobile manufacturing.
> 
> He're's your FSAPDS round. LOSER even T72 has 3 times more effective armor.
> 
> Performance
> Muzzle velocity 1730 metres/sec
> Services pressure at 21oC 4845 Kg Cm2
> Accuracy at 1000 metres:
> SD (Horizontal) 0.3 mil
> SD (Vertical) 0.3 mil
> Penetration at 2,000M 460mm, against RHA target at Zero Obliquity, conforming to DEF-STAN 95-13/2
> 
> Pakistan Ordnance Factories



BS... ... fake data as usual... 

P.S= you dont even produce DU or tungsten rounds...


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## me_itsme

pakdefender said:


> hahaha wtf ???
> 
> given some rifles are gas operated and air cooled ... it seems super duper indians have taken this basic principle to to a whole new level




What???


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## kurup

hkdas said:


> above photo is from indian navy site. right?



No idea , got it from fb.


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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> P.S= you dont even produce DU or tungsten rounds...



 I hope this shuts you up









MBT Ammunition 120mm FSAPDS

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/lc/23.htm

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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> I hope this stops your BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MBT Ammunition 120mm FSAPDS



http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...w6ypLTTH16QQga5WBrWm66w&bvm=bv.47883778,d.bGE

Quality of indian made ammo:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ts-t-72-tanks-barrels-cause-concern-army.html


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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...w6ypLTTH16QQga5WBrWm66w&bvm=bv.47883778,d.bGE
> 
> Quality of indian made ammo:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ts-t-72-tanks-barrels-cause-concern-army.html



You insist on persisting with your bullshit don't you? 



> The Army is also &#8220;concerned&#8221; over the ammunition used by its artillery called Krashnapov, which has been imported from Russia, and has failed to hit targets in high altitude ranges such as Kargil.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...barrels-cause-concern-army.html#ixzz2WTwdz8sP

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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> You insist on persisting with your bullshit don't you?



Lol... cherry picking is not a good habbit... read the whole article:


> India&#8217;s T-72 tanks are facing problems with its ammunition as it sometimes bursts in the barrel and 200 such cases have been reported making the Army wonder whether its troops will be &#8220;afraid&#8221; to fire even after seeing the enemy.



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...barrels-cause-concern-army.html#ixzz2WTxMditj

The arty rounds are another issue... apart from the crappy ammo or maybe t-72s...


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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol... cherry picking is not a good habbit... read the whole article:
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...barrels-cause-concern-army.html#ixzz2WTxMditj
> 
> The arty rounds are another issue... apart from the crappy ammo or maybe t-72s...



The whole ammo lot was imported from Russia under a 2.1 billion deal in the 80's.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> The whole ammo lot was imported from Russia under a 2.1 billion deal in the 80's.



Same BS... read post #2349 and click the first link... you ordered ammo for 1+ billion$ in 2012 alone...


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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Same BS... read post #2349 and click the first link... you ordered ammo for 1+ billion$ in 2012 alone...



Do you know the concept of ammo getting old - and needing replacements - and the BS forum article you posted was for joint production of Mango rounds and this is a mango round

Army Guide - 3UBK20, Round

and read up on post number 2348 about the FSAPDS rounds manufactured by OFB and DRDO.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

illusion8 said:


> Do you know the concept of ammo getting old - and needing replacements - and the BS forum article you posted was for joint production of Mango rounds and this is a mango round
> 
> Army Guide - 3UBK20, Round
> 
> and read up on post number 2348 about the FSAPDS rounds manufactured by OFB and DRDO.



Nope... the so called mango type rounds are/were in negotiations..and nothing about joint manufacture of manufacturing but delivery of those rounds... the deals was for:


> In the beginning of this year, Russia concluded a package of agreements with India in the amount of nearly $1 billion for the delivery of tank and artillery shells, anti-tank missiles and other ammunition for ground troops, the Vedomosti newspaper wrote.



The only JV was for smerch ammo... not sure if it went through or not..



http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...-IGQBw&usg=AFQjCNH2isJlLfYPsa_acgIgIClXusy_jg


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Guys,This guy is soo very well taking you for a ride by derailing this thread and you guys are falling for it.First SUVs,now Tank ammo and in between that stupid guy will come and post snake pics.

These Pakistanis just wanna derail the thread coz they know their SF is not worth any achievement in any war faught with India.

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## illusion8

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nope... the so called mango type rounds are/were in negotiations..and nothing about joint manufacture of manufacturing but delivery of those rounds... the deals was for:
> 
> 
> The only JV was for smerch ammo... not sure if it went through or not..
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...-IGQBw&usg=AFQjCNH2isJlLfYPsa_acgIgIClXusy_jg



My last post to your off topic posts, this is from that forum link that you posted earlier which clearly says mango rounds to be supplied and manufactured in India.

Russia to deliver arms & ammunition worth $1 billion to India in 2012 - 2013



> Russia is nearing a deal with India on manufacture and delivery of advanced tank ammunition, Rosoboronexport, a state-run arms exporter, said on Friday.
> 
> The first round of negotiations on the delivery of 3UBK20 (Mango) tank ammunition has been completed and the second round - on its licensed manufacture in India - will start on Monday, company deputy head Igor Sevastyanov said.
> 
> He did not specify the volume of deliveries, only saying it was big.
> 
> Russia has already started building a joint venture in India to manufacture rockets for Smerch multiple rocket launch systems, he said.
> 
> Another Rosoboronexport official, Viktor Komardin, earlier said Russian arms sales to India could be worth an estimated $3 billion a year.


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## sudhir007




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## Koovie

sudhir007 said:


>



I guess you mixed up the thread titles  ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>



did you get the video of this? it was a show on navy day at mumbai in 2010.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> did you get the video of this? it was a show on navy day at mumbai in 2010.



Nope.......


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## Abingdonboy

COAS's bodyguard:








Will say it again- using PARA (SF) for this role is overkill and a complete waste of these operators' talents. MPs should get training from the NSG/SF and do this job.

+ did learn though that for most of these SFs, this stint as a BG for the COAS, is the last tasking before they retire. Hence there's no real issue with having their pics taken and the like.

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## Abingdonboy

Another:

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## Abingdonboy

Just saw a interview with an IA Lt Gen who said PARA SF/Airborne have been used to rescue survivors in the most remote and isolated locations where road transport is non-existent. He said Paratroopers (Airborne not SF in this case I'm guessing) para-jumped from helos into one of these locations as fast-roping/slithering was not possible. And then these Paratroopers will be carrying the civilians on their backs (along with their gear) to a safe(r) LZ just- 















In another incident Paratroopers rescued ~70 semi-conscious survivors from the middle of a river and got them MEDIVAC'd to a hospital. 


Proud to have a family member who has served in the PARAs.



All these rescue workers- CAPFs,IA, IAF, NDRF etc all deserve more than they will get. My are the epitome of unsung heroes. A thankless job indeed. SALUTE!

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## Water Car Engineer

@Abingdonboy

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ARMY SF evacuates 350 people



> Around 350 of the 1000 people stranded in the mountains between Gaurikund and Rambara on the Kedarnath axis in rain-ravaged Uttarakhand have been evacuated by special forces of the Indian Army.





Uttarakhand: 350 of 1000 people stuck in mountains rescued | NDTV.com

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## Agnostic_Indian

it's good that army and air force is helping, but it's our fault that we don't have a capable enough body to take care of disasters like this.Army often stated that it's not their job to do, but without alternatives they don't have a choice.


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## Koovie

Agnostic_Indian said:


> it's good that army and air force is helping, but it's our fault that we don't have a capable enough body to take care of disasters like this.Army often stated that it's not their job to do, but without alternatives they don't have a choice.



Who else should deal with disasters on such a scale? In almost every country, the military is used to provide help... I mean I can hardly think of any emergency services which have their own air lifters and enough helos.

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## Agnostic_Indian

Koovie said:


> Who else should deal with disasters on such a scale? In almost every country, the military is used to provide help... I mean I can hardly think of any emergency services which have their own air lifters and enough helos.



India got one " NDMA" ..nothing much on ground though. every country has a disaster management team, they are the ones who handle it primarily, military is called only when required.here in India our disaster management is almost non existing or non functional so here we call for army whether it's to save a child from a farewell or to rebuild a bridge for commonwealth games.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Letters to the Editor


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## Koovie

Agnostic_Indian said:


> India got one " NDMA" ..nothing much on ground though. every country has a disaster management team, they are the ones who handle it primarily, military is called only when required.here in India our disaster management is almost non existing or non functional so here we call for army whether it's to save a child from a farewell or to rebuild a bridge for commonwealth games.
> 
> The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Letters to the Editor



Ok, but in this case, where the areas cannot be accessed by land, how is the NDMA supposed to help/evacuate with out aircraft?


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## Agnostic_Indian

Koovie said:


> Ok, but in this case, where the areas cannot be accessed by land, how is the NDMA supposed to help/evacuate with out aircraft?



Yes in this case we need extra help from army and air force, but what we are experiencing is that the entire responsibility is on their shoulders, if we had a good disaster management team with resources and manpower they could have handled 50%-70% work and forces can help where ever it is needed.


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## Abingdonboy

Agnostic_Indian said:


> India got one " NDMA" ..nothing much on ground though. every country has a disaster management team, they are the ones who handle it primarily, military is called only when required.here in India our disaster management is almost non existing or non functional so here we call for army whether it's to save a child from a farewell or to rebuild a bridge for commonwealth games.
> 
> The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Letters to the Editor



This is nonsense. The NDMA has the NDRF which is their operational diaster response force. But these guys can't be everywhere, their size is <1% of the IA's so naturally the IA is going to be on the scene speedier and in larger numbers in certain disasters. The NDRF is spread out across the country and they have not deployed their entire force (10,000) to this Uttarakhand effort as there are many other locations they need to and are covering ie NCR, Mumbai, JK etc. 


Basically the NDRF is too small, doesn't have the powers to requisition its own a/c and their existence is pretty much unknown by 99% of the Indian population. Have no doubt though that the NDRF is a very well trained, organised and equipped disaster response force. 


They are expanding but they are still in their infancy so it will take time for them to get to the optimum.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hey Guys,I just saw this video on youtube where you can clearly see the SOG(elite unit of JKAP) personnels fighting against the terrorists..and also Tavor(if i am not mistaken)

[video]http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4430513.cms[/video]

I know this is a SF thread but i thinks its the only worthy thread to post this.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Hey Guys,I just saw this video on youtube where you can clearly see the SOG(elite unit of JKAP) personnels fighting against the terrorists..and also Tavor(if i am not mistaken)
> 
> [video]http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4430513.cms[/video]
> 
> I know this is a SF thread but i thinks its the only worthy thread to post this.




Mate which part do you see SOG and Tavors? I watched the entire thing and didn't see the Tavor.


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Hey Guys,I just saw this video on youtube where you can clearly see the SOG(elite unit of JKAP) personnels fighting against the terrorists..and also Tavor(if i am not mistaken)
> 
> [video]http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4430513.cms[/video]
> 
> I know this is a SF thread but i thinks its the only worthy thread to post this.



where is Tavor?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate which part do you see SOG and Tavors? I watched the entire thing and didn't see the Tavor.





hkdas said:


> where is Tavor?



The guys in civil clothes must be SOG.

And here is the pic of what i though looked like a Tavor


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The guys in civil clothes must be SOG.
> 
> And here is the pic of what i though looked like a Tavor


Hmmm, it's possible- that is a UBGL mounted to some rifle, it's just hard to make out what kind.


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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> Hmmm, it's possible- that is a UBGL mounted to some rifle, it's just hard to make out what kind.



it is a tavor i hav watched the entire story on diff channels there u can easily point out the grip of the rifle and it is of a tavor's only.

ajj tak n ht group hav som good footage wating for the pics to come in

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jiki said:


> it is a tavor i hav watched the entire story on diff channels there u can easily point out the grip of the rifle and it is of a tavor's only.
> 
> ajj tak n ht group hav som good footage wating for the pics to come in



Thanks for confirming it buddy...Now my question is that the group of soldiers belong to the Police(can be SOG)..so how come the SOG has Tavor?


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The guys in civil clothes must be SOG.
> 
> And here is the pic of what i though looked like a Tavor



The news anchor is talking about the CRPF as well... so it might be CRPF personal ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> The news anchor is talking about the CRPF as well... so it might be CRPF personal ?



Ya...then it might be possible that CRPF guy would be the one with the TAVOR.


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## Abingdonboy

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...aining-campus-near-hyderabad.html#post4447189

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## kurup

Uttarakhand: Air Force deploys specially-trained Garud commandos for rescue operations | NDTV.com

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## kurup

Don't know if posted earlier .

HSL To Build Four Mini-Submarines For MARCOS

In another noteworthy development, Vizag-based Hindustan Shipyards Ltd has bagged the contract for building four 500-tonne mini-submarines, which were designed back in the previous decade by Larsen & Toubro. The mini-submarines, to be delivered in the latter half of this decade, will be used exclusively by the Indian Navy&#8217;s MARCOS. The combat management systems have been designed and built by TATA Power SED, while Riva Calzoni will be supplying the periscopes and other masts that will host a SATCOM communications systems and LPI navigation radar. The sonar suite is likely to be supplied by ATLAS Elektronik.

TRISHUL: BrahMos-1 ASCM Being Fired From INS Tarkash On May 22; Indian Navy And NDMA To Receive 12 ShinMaywa Industries-Built SS-3 Amphibians; HSL To Build Four Mini-Submarines For MARCOS; BEML-TATRA To Resume Deliveries Of T815 Heavy-Duty Trucks

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## Toxic Alien

SF's have recently acquired Helmet cams.


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## Koovie

Toxic Alien said:


> SF's have recently acquired Helmet cams.



Welcome to PDF  

You got any sources?


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## hkdas

kurup said:


> Don't know if posted earlier .
> 
> HSL To Build Four Mini-Submarines For MARCOS
> 
> In another noteworthy development, Vizag-based Hindustan Shipyards Ltd has bagged the contract for building four 500-tonne mini-submarines, which were designed back in the previous decade by Larsen & Toubro. The mini-submarines, to be delivered in the latter half of this decade, will be used exclusively by the Indian Navys MARCOS. The combat management systems have been designed and built by TATA Power SED, while Riva Calzoni will be supplying the periscopes and other masts that will host a SATCOM communications systems and LPI navigation radar. The sonar suite is likely to be supplied by ATLAS Elektronik.
> 
> TRISHUL: BrahMos-1 ASCM Being Fired From INS Tarkash On May 22; Indian Navy And NDMA To Receive 12 ShinMaywa Industries-Built SS-3 Amphibians; HSL To Build Four Mini-Submarines For MARCOS; BEML-TATRA To Resume Deliveries Of T815 Heavy-Duty Trucks



ya, i saw this news, it is 1 month old news. i had added this to wiki(marcos page) in the same day it publish in trishul.



Toxic Alien said:


> SF's have recently acquired Helmet cams.



WE know you cannot paste the link here. tell us how to find it if you get this from internet.


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## kurup

Uttarakhand: Navy deploys marine commandos, deep-sea divers - Times Of India

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## hkdas

Uttarakhand: MARCOS marine commandos airlifted to Kedarnath to search missing pilgrims

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

RIP Brave men!
























These are the best SF operators we have lost in the valley.All of them were exceptional officers who went out of their way doing their duty.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> RIP Brave men!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the best SF operators we have lost in the valley.All of them were exceptional officers who went out of their way doing their duty.


Mate nice post but I think it is highly unfair to say these are "the best operators" who have passed away in the valley. Many SFs have died along with regulars, police and CAPFs and all these are entirely equal they died fighting for the same cause.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate nice post but I think it is highly unfair to say these are "the best operators" who have passed away in the valley. Many SFs have died along with regulars, police and CAPFs and all these are entirely equal they died fighting for the same cause.



Honestly,i did think about that after i posted it.But i didnt edit it coz i felt that when they were alive they have done some amazing work which puts them up right at the top.

I agree that sacrfice for the nation is the ultimate sacrifice any soldier can give but these operators have done so much for the SF and the Army.

That is the reason why only they have found a mention in the recently released book on Indian SFs written by a General from PARA.

Having said that i respect all the soldiers who have laid down their life for their country and my post doesnt mean to belittle their sacrifice.Its just that i have rated these operators as the best in the valley who lost their life fighting for the country.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Uttarakhand relief ops: role of para commandos









Notice how the people start clapping as they started slithering down!!

R-E-S-P-E-C-T



Also,they have ADIDAS gear and i liked when the reporter said 'India's very best'!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Old pic

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## hkdas

navy divers, mistakenly titled as marcos.

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## hkdas

NAVY MARCOS

[video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/video-story/215663[/video]


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> NAVY MARCOS
> 
> [video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/video-story/215663[/video]



Dude,Is this your favorite video?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Abingdonboy

PARAs (dunno which btn) during Uttrakhand resuce ops:







Some bad@ss motherfvckers!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Some old pics of NSG

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## hkdas

this is the video of israeli counter terrorist force training mumbai police Force one:
&#x202b;
somebody pls tell what they are saying.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> this is the video of israeli counter terrorist force training mumbai police Force one:
> &#8235;
> somebody pls tell what they are saying.



I had asked an Israeli member for a brief translation of this very vid a while back and he kindly obliged but that wad a while ago. I'll try and hunt this down bro but don't hold me to it lol!!

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## Koovie

MARCOS? or SPB? The uniform indicates it.
But I am a bit confused by those people on the right... arent those Sri Lankan flags????
It looks like a non naval crew though....

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## hkdas

Koovie said:


>



who are the armed men there?

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> who are the armed men there?



I think MARCOS


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> I think MARCOS



where did you get this photo, can you provide the link? the man on right side does't look like an Indian. but there uniform looks like marcos's.


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> where did you get this photo, can you provide the link? .



Got it from another forum.... from the img link it seems that it was uploaded by some random person.



hkdas said:


> the man on right side does't look like an Indian.


Have you ever seen north Indians? Even some people in Kerala look similar to him


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Got it from another forum.... from the img link it seems that it was uploaded by some random person.
> 
> 
> Have you ever seen north Indians? Even some people in Kerala look similar to him




ok, thanks for the photo. solders looks very good.

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## kurup

Koovie said:


> MARCOS? or SPB? The uniform indicates it.
> But I am a bit confused by those people on the right... arent those Sri Lankan flags????
> It looks like a non naval crew though....



Any idea what is the occasion ??

I mean marcos/spb with face uncovered gifting a momento in a photoshoot with some civilians .

Also , the flag looks like that of Maldives .

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## doppelganger

Is that Harbhajan Singh kneeling with the gun?


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## Koovie

kurup said:


> Any idea what is the occasion ??
> 
> I mean marcos/spb with face uncovered gifting a momento in a photoshoot with some civilians .
> 
> Also , the flag looks like that of Maldives .


They (MARCOS) have done it before (posing for private photos)

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## Major Shaitan Singh



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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> MARCOS? or SPB? The uniform indicates it.
> But I am a bit confused by those people on the right... arent those Sri Lankan flags????
> It looks like a non naval crew though....


Bro, if you're going to post such things please, PLEASE obscure the faces of these guys.


This is all it takes:






Bu t great find all the same mate! 


kurup said:


> Any idea what is the occasion ??
> 
> I mean marcos/spb with face uncovered gifting a momento in a photoshoot with some civilians .
> 
> Also , the flag looks like that of Maldives .



Could be anything but my guess would be this has something to do with the IN's anti-piracy deployments.

It looks as if whoever took the pic has leaked it when he/she really shouldn't have- most likely a civilian.



Major Shaitan Singh said:


>



What a wonderful vid

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, if you're going to post such things please, PLEASE obscure the faces of these guys.
> 
> 
> This is all it takes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bu t great find all the same mate!
> 
> 
> Could be anything but my guess would be this has something to do with the IN's anti-piracy deployments.
> 
> It looks as if whoever took the pic has leaked it when he/she really shouldn't have- most likely a civilian.



Yeah, you are right  I ve changed the pic. @hkdas @kurup 

Please change your quoted pictures as well

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## Roybot

hkdas said:


> where did you get this photo, can you provide the link?* the man on right side does't look like an Indian. *but there uniform looks like marcos's.



Seriously?


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Yeah, you are right  I ve changed the pic. @hkdas @kurup
> 
> Please change your quoted pictures as well



if they don't care, then why you are getting worried?



Roybot said:


> Seriously?


yes brother


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## hkdas

Australian navy personals use this kind of camouflage uniform 
The Navy guards Sri Lankan asylum seekers on a boat. - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> where did you get this photo, can you provide the link? the man on right side does't look like an Indian. but there uniform looks like marcos's.



Does he look Indian to you?

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## kurup

Koovie said:


> Yeah, you are right  I ve changed the pic. @hkdas @kurup
> 
> Please change your quoted pictures as well



Done ........

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> if they don't care, then why you are getting worried?



Taking personal photos and putting those photos on the internet on facebook is something different....



hkdas said:


> Australian navy personals use this kind of camouflage uniform
> The Navy guards Sri Lankan asylum seekers on a boat. - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



So what? Many countries use digi camo

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Does he look Indian to you?



look at the beret the symbol doesn't look like Indian navy's.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Old pic



Heres his story:-



> Operation Pawan was the codename assigned to the operations by the Indian Peace Keeping Force to take control of Jaffna from the LTTE in late 1987 to enforce the disarmament of the LTTE as a part of the Indo-Sri Lankan Accord. In the brutal fighting that lasted for about three weeks, the IPKF took control of the Jaffna Peninsula from the LTTE rule, something that the Sri Lankan army had attempted and failed to achieve for several years. Supported by Indian Army tanks, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery, the IPKF routed the LTTE. This victory came at a price as the IPKF lost around 214 soldiers.[3]
> 
> Digendra Kumar and his group were assigned the task of patrolling dominant areas in Tamil. Five Tamil militants fired and killed five soldiers from Digendra Kumar's squad. So he along with remaining soldiers followed the militants who entered the house of an MLA. The MLA opposed the action and in the fight the MLA along with five militants were killed. This raised a heated controversy and Digendra Kumar was penalized and remanded.[1]
> 
> Meanwhile 36 soldiers of 10 Parachute Regiment were captured and put somewhere inside a deep forest. Lt Gen A.S. Kalkat assigned the task of freeing them to Digendra Kumar. Digendra Kumar took 50 kg ammunition and biscuits and sailed through the river which was supplied with 133 KV current, to reach the point of target. He not only saved 36 soldiers of 10 Parachute Regiment who were arrested by LTTE people in a forest for 72 hours, but also destroyed an important ammunition depot and killed 39 militants. This act of bravery was highly appreciated.






> Role in Kargil war
> Kargil in Jammu and Kashmir
> 
> Digendra Kumar commanded the Light Machine Gun Group during his company's assault on Tololing feature in Dras Sector. The objective was to capture the enemy post located in a high altitude terrain at over 15000 feet. Major Vivek Gupta, of the Rajputana Rifles - 2nd Battalion, and his company were given the task of recapturing Point 4590.[1]
> 
> On 13 June 1999, on nearing its objective, the Assault Group came under enemy fire leading to casualties in the Assault Group. Naik Digendra Kumar was hit by a bullet in his left arm. Naik Digendra Kumar kept firing on the enemy with his Light Machine Gun. His fire facilitated his men's advancement. Finally his troops physically assaulted the enemy position and cleared it after a hand to hand fight.[4]
> 
> This victory was very important. It meant that the Pakistanis could be beaten. Retaking Tololing was perhaps the turning point of the war.
> 
> The role of Digendra in the Kargil conflict was crucial. In the Kargil war the most important task was to recapture the top of Tololing. This task was entrusted to the Rajputana Rifles - 2nd Battalion. General Malik called a meeting of the Rajputana Rifles at Gumri to make plans to free the Tololing hill. Digendra introduced himself as Digendra Kumar, known as cobra, soldier of the 2 Rajputana Rifles and a commando of the Indian Army. He chalked out a plan through which victory was certain.[1]
> 
> Digendra indicated that he needed 100 meters of Russian rope that should weigh 6 kg with bearing capacity of 10 tonnes along with Russian nails which could be easily put in the rocks. He also demanded injections of high power that could remove fatigue and provide courage. With this material they would climb the hill during the night and put the rope up to hill top with the help of nails. The path was formidable and inaccessible but he had examined and tested the area well with field binoculars.[1]
> 
> The day before the execution of the plan, at about 11 a.m., General Malik, encouraging Digendra, said, "Son! Accept congratulations of V. P. Malik 48 hours in advance of our success. Son! If we win the Kargil, Malik himself will bring breakfast for you tomorrow morning. " [1]
> 
> The plan was executed on the evening of 10 June 1999. There was deadly silence in the hills except for the blasts. There was snow all around. Slowly and slowly with cautious steps Digendra and his companions moved ahead with military goods. They put nails in the rocks and tied the rope. When they got tired halfway up they took the injections. When Digendra's hands stopped working, he gripped the rope with his teeth. There was a 5000 feet deep chasm below. After 14 hours they reached the top of Tololing. After all, the entire journey was with a rope. They reached back the battalion with the hanging rope.[1]
> 
> The commando team included Major Vivek Gupta, Subedar Bhanwar Lal Bhakar, Subedar Surendra Singh Rathor, Lance Naik Jasvir Singh, Naik Surendra, Naik Chaman Singh Tewatia, Lans Naik Bachchan Singh, CMH Jashvir Singh, Havaldar Sultan Singh Narwar and Digendra Kumar.[1]
> 
> The Pakistani army had made 11 bunkers on the Tololing hill top. Digendra was to target the first and the last (11th) bunkers. The rest were to target the remaining 9 bunkers. They ascended the hill with ammunition.[1]
> 
> The wind blew very cold at Kargil. The darkness was dense and the paths very inaccessible. There were frequent, sudden blasts. All that could be seen was blackness. They started climbing hill along the rope fixed to nails in the rock. Crawling Digendra unknowingly reached a machine gun nest. Digendra&#8217;s hands touched the hot barrel of a machine gun from which the enemy was blasting the balls. Perceiving the presence of enemy, he removed the barrel and within moments threw a grenade in the bunker where there was explosion and a loud voice came from inside - "Allah ho Akbar, the attacks of infidels !!!".[1]
> 
> Digendra hit the target accurately. The first bunker began to fire and was reduced to ashes. From behind there was firing by Artillery tanks and 250 commandos. The Pak Army also played an equal role. Cobra&#8217;s colleagues fired intensely but were unable to move. Cannons were fired from a meter above. Digendra was badly wounded. Three bullets had hit him in the chest, one leg was badly wounded and his upper body faced 18 bullets, his pitthu was badly torn, one of his shoes was missing, his pants and shirt were reduced to pieces. His LMG was also missing from his hands. He bandaged himself to prevent blood loss.[1]
> 
> Subedar Bhanwar Lal Bhakar, Lance Naik Jasvir Singh, Naik Surendra, and Naik Chaman Singh were killed. Digendra was given a pistol from Lans Naik Bachhan Singh, and a grenade from Sultan Singh. Major Vivek Gupta was killed with a bullet in the head.[1]
> 
> Digendra hurled the grenades in the other bunker successfully destroying all bunkers. He threw 18 grenades into 11 bunkers. Major Anwar Khan, from the enemy camp, appeared over Digendra, who had only one bullet remaining. He shot Khan and dislodged his pistol from his hands. Not realizing he was out of bullets, Digendra tried to shoot with the pistol but in vain. He quickly jumped on Anwar Khan, eventually beheading him and hailed Mother India.[1]
> 
> Coincidentally a U.S. satellite passed over the top of Tololing at that moment a captured a file photo of the him binding a scarf around the decapitated head of Major Anwar Khan and trying to plant an Indian flag.[1]
> 
> Thus Digendra recaptured the top of the hill and planted the Indian tri-colour flag on 13 June 1999 at four O&#8217;clock in the morning.
> 
> The Indian Army reached the Tololing peak early in the morning and found the dead soldiers. The Indian tri-colour flag was hoisted and Digendra was lying unconscious on his side with the severed head of Major Anwar Khan of the Pakistan Army in his hand. Digendra was carried to the Military Hospital and put in Cobra hut. The Prime Minister of India, Atal Bihar Bajpai and the President of India K R Narain visited and congratulated him for his bravery.





hkdas said:


> look at the beret the symbol doesn't look like Indian navy's.



Dude,This is a pic of Marcos operator and they used this beret before optiong for the Maroon beret.This pic is from bharatrakshak which is considered to be a reliable site on Indian Defence.

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## Roybot

hkdas said:


> look at the beret the symbol doesn't look like Indian navy's.



Now you just trolling


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Taking personal photos and putting those photos on the internet on facebook is something different....
> 
> 
> 
> So what? Many countries use digi camo



same kind of camouflage uniform only these two naves use this UCP(Universal Camouflage Pattern) among the naves in the world



Roybot said:


> Now you just trolling



not trolling, i just express my doubts about it.


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Heres his story:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude,This is a pic of Marcos operator and they used this beret before optiong for the Maroon beret.This pic is from bharatrakshak which is considered to be a reliable site on Indian Defence.




thank you for clearing my doubts.
all you mention above is about an army personal not navy marcos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digendra_Kumar
the insignia


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Late Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan RIP

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## Roybot

@Abingdonboy

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## Koovie

Roybot said:


> @Abingdonboy



BAdass as always

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## Abingdonboy

Roybot said:


> @Abingdonboy



Nice one @Roybot! SPG!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> thank you for clearing my doubts.
> all you mention above is about an army personal not navy marcos.
> Digendra Kumar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> the insignia



That was another post...this is another post.I know this is an Army person of 2 RAJPUTANA rifles and i had only earlier posted his pic also.

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## mirage2K

Roybot said:


> @Abingdonboy



SPG Counter Assault Team

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Late Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan RIP


In this pic the NSG (SAG) are training with Garuds IIRC.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> In this pic the NSG (SAG) are training with Garuds IIRC.



There are some other pics of Late Maj Unnikrishnan with Garuds.Infact in the Rocky and Mayur show the officer of the Garuds has been with Maj Unnikrishnan..i saw his pic recently with him.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I was talking about Spec Op guys of the RR a few weeks ago and their kit.Unfortunately i couldnt get pics from the guy i was in contact with but recently while browsing various pages in the web world i came across this pic where the guys look very similar to what i was talking about and the kit is very similar.Heres the pic:-







I am talking about the black jacket ones.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was talking about Spec Op guys of the RR a few weeks ago and their kit.Unfortunately i couldnt get pics from the guy i was in contact with but recently while browsing various pages in the web world i came across this pic where the guys look very similar to what i as talking about and the kit is very similar.Heres the pic:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am talking about the black jacket ones.


Yeah it's possible these guys are part of the Ghataks force deputed to RR.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Rare pic of MARCOS

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG in 26/11

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Rare MARCO pic

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## Killswitch

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>





First time I have ever seen a bayonet on the tavor. Cool pic.


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## Azeri440

Killswitch said:


> First time I have ever seen a bayonet on the tavor. Cool pic.



was about to say the same thing


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>



That bayonet looks like PS .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hey guys,apologies for derailing this thread but this movie on SF is a must watch.Story is somewhat related to covert ops in SL.I am not a movie buff but i am definitely gonna watch this and D day.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok so i am back and the following question and answer session lasted for 4-5 days.(whenever i got a chance to ask him questions about the Army)
> 
> *Me-So you have been a part of Special Operations?How is it different to Special Forces as for me Special Ops are related to Special Forces?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.Ghatakas and CAT have also done Spec Ops.
> 
> *Me-CAT??What is that?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Company Assault Team.A small bunch of soldiers who were to be trained as Para SF....as in a specialist in a 6 man squad but it didnt last long.
> 
> *Me-Wow...but why didnt it last long.I think it was a brilliant idea.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Thats what we were wondering.
> 
> *Me-Okay..Comming back to Spec ops..What was the team like and what did you guys do..any behind the line ops?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No..we never crossed the LOC but our task was to collect intel by infiltrating inside the group and carrying out our tasks.
> 
> *Me--What group are you talking about?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I cant tell you that.
> 
> *Me-Cool..no problem.So you told me that you liked the gear western armies have for their Spec ops guys and i believe our operators are not given enough despite having a pretty good budget .I mean our Generals have money to buy golf carts but not blood clotting band aids.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--The thing is that things are slowly changing.A lot has changed in the last 5 years and i expect much more in the comming years.
> 
> *Me--Come on...We dont have proper night fighting abilities for a foot soldier.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Are you talking about Spec ops or regulars?
> 
> *Me--I know SF has NVGs but i dont think adequate equipment is present in infantry battalions.Like for eg there are HHTI but no NVGs.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No thats not true.We have NVGs and sights which combined with HHTI,LORES and TOUTI(i dont remember what he said so forgive me for that) gives us an advantage.
> 
> *Me--HHTI is Hand hekd Thermal Imager right?..But what the fck is Lores and touti(or whatever)
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--They are long range camera kind of thing having day/night ability which we use for monitoring the LOC.Their range is 15kms and are present in most of the posts so that when there is an infiltration we have extra pair of eyes.
> 
> *Me-Nice..What kind of sights do you guys use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We have 3 sights in use..Red *** sights which do not use battery.Second is the quadrantal line sights.I dont know what they were called but they also dont use battery.Third one was what we called day/night sight which used battery.
> 
> *Me-But i havent seen regulars use any kind of sights except a few with INSAS.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--These are not for regulars but SF and Spec Ops only as of now due to low stock.Moreoever the problem is their battery life which is 2 hours bcoz of which many guys dont use it.
> 
> *Me-So you are telling me that you are satisfied with the stuff you have got?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Absolutely and let me tell you in the comming years we are gonna be comparable to any SF unit in terms of equipments.Like for example when we go for Spec ops we are given the best equipments by the Army.Like in one operation we went we were given everything from NVGs to Drones.
> 
> *Me--WTF..My friend(abingdonboy) told me about this but i dint know it has become so common.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We were given HHTI,NVGs,Dogs and drones for one particular operation in my career and the best part was the surprise package which happened to be an attack hopter(I dont knw why but he kept saying hopter again and again).
> 
> *Me--So what kind of NVGs did you use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Single tube and double tube worn without the helmet.But i would prefer HHTI and Day/Night sight over it anyday.
> 
> *Me--And what about the BPJ?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We use 3 kinds of BPJs.The 1st one has 400gms plate.In this plate the BPJ is seperate and the Jacket is different.This is the one you would have seen mostly with Army SF.Second one has 4 kg plates with a rubber like outer core and the last type is the older type which has 8 kg plates.
> 
> Spec ops and SF use 400 gms one only.We spec ops guys wear 4 plates weighing 1.6 kgs and its pretty comfortable but the SF mostly wear 2 plates.
> 
> *Me--Yeah i know..they are the blue eyed boys of the IA.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--(Smiles)...yeah they are..They deserve it too.
> 
> *Me--Ya i know...What kind of helmets do you use?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Patka is common but we use new helmets(Israeli type ones)
> 
> *Me-So you were talking about the Para SF..Can you please share something about them as i am their big fan.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Yeah..They and Marcos are India's elite SF.
> 
> *Me-I know this..Talking of Marcos..have you ever worked with them?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator-I have never seen them.
> 
> *Me--How would you compare them?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I wont compare them but i know this for a fact that in CIJWS various teams take part including the PARA SF,MARCOS,GARUDA,ITBP etc and the Para SF have won most of the events and have stood first.
> 
> *Me--Can you share your sources please?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--No i cant..Just know that i am heading towards CIJWS next.
> 
> *Me-All the best...But why dont you join Para SF?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I didnt get the chance as i was in RR when the opeinings came.Next time it comes i am going.
> 
> *Me-How does this opening system work?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Interested canidates are tested in their Command and then only sent for further probation.
> 
> *Me--Its looks like you respect the SF a lot..since you told me that you didnt know about SF in your childhood then how did they earn respect in your eyes?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--It was this operator that we had solid intel that 3 terrorists including the area commander are present in the forests.We laid down the the cordon and ambush for 7 days but no result.As we were about to end this operation thinking that there is no one out there we saw the CO of the Para SF come and tell our commander that he has permission from Higher authorities to carry out this operation on their own without any support.
> 
> They laid ambush at strange positions(He was technically explaining but i was not getting it) and we felt like they are not gonna get them but in the next 12 hours they killed 3 terrorists with 0 casualties.
> 
> Their CO was straight out of a Hollywood Special Forces movie in his SUV(not a Gypsy and i am not naming the model here).He is the most bad *** officer i had ever seen.
> 
> *Me-Wow,thanks for sharing and what about that operation you said in which dogs and drones were used.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--We planned and practised for 7 days to take out a hideout in the forests.We(team of 12) were dropped in the snow by the hopters and when we threw our rucksacks it went 10 feet inside the snow.It was a very tough operation for us as well as the dogs.We had everything we wanted from NVGs to drones.The drones were hovering over our position and we had the choice of calling air strike when we wanted.
> 
> The commander decided to blow the hideout using attack hopters but it was of no use as it was well hidden inside the tunnel..."the attack hopters firing its machine gun over us and empty shells falling on us were awesome"(thats his line word to word)
> 
> So we moved in after 7 days of no meals and only chewing toffies as we couldnt afford to prepare MREs.As we moved in we saw trails which the drone had earlier confirmed as enough evidence of carrying out a special op..so we hit the tunnel with the RL and threw grenades and carried out an intervention while the snipers were covering us from far away.We killed 4 terrorists that day.
> 
> *Me--Woow...Thats cool..My respect to you and your friends in the Spec ops who are doing so much for the country.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Its not for the country alone..We enjoy doing it.I always wanted to be different from the beginning and this is how i wanted my life to be.
> 
> *Me-Any other incident which you can pleease share?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--Hmm..okay last one.When we were on covert ops we got this info that Hizb-ul-Mujahiden were recruiting young college going kashmiris to carryout their propoganda campaing and these guys were teasing the sister of a BSF soldier from the same village.
> 
> We came to know about them and since we lived away from the Army no one knew about us.There was only one route where they used to tease her so we went on that route picked up these guys.Took them to the jungle and tied them to the trees.Then we thrashed them for the next 2 hours without saying a single word.
> 
> The result we got info out of them and these guys never went on that route again and hence the BSF soldiers sister was never teased again.(they didnt come to know that the Army had thrashed them)
> 
> *Me--These bastards should be thrashed like this only.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator-The thing is that some are brainwashed and others do it for money.We knew of a house where 2 beautiful girls lived who used to go to the forests to give the terrorists food and were basically into prostitution and got money in return.
> 
> *Me-Thats really sad.
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--And we are not authorised to even question them these days so we stick to what we are best at(covert ops)
> 
> *Me--So what about the good Kashmiris..do they support you or are they quite?
> 
> *Spec Ops Operator--I was once sitting behind a house in an ambush.It was 2 am and it was very cold.It was soo cold that i couldnt hold my gun properly.Suddenly we saw a old man and his daughter comming towards us with a hot bucket of water and tea.
> 
> We in the Army are not allowed to take anything from the civilians but we hardly had any choice so half of the team took tea(just incase the tea is poisoned).I was the among the ones who didnt take tea but i dipped my feet in the hot water...and it felt soo good that i felt like kissing the old man.
> 
> There are other incidents also where school children used to wave at us and people came to us for photographs.Not every one is against us there.
> 
> *Me--Hmmm..thanks for sharing soo much with me and i hope you get to wear the maroon beret soon.



I posted this story a month ago and now finally i have some pics worth sharing incase you thought i made up the whole story :p

And please dont post it in other forums.

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## special

anybody know how to download NDTV videos?

[video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-india-documentary/2/283824[/video]
CIJW-2


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I posted this story a month ago and now finally i have some pics worth sharing incase you thought i made up the whole story :p
> 
> And please dont post it in other forums.



nice photo.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> anybody know how to download NDTV videos?
> 
> [video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-india-documentary/2/283824[/video]
> CIJW-2



Tell me also if you find a way to download it.



special said:


> nice photo.



Thanks!!!!!!


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tell me also if you find a way to download it.



rajeev ranjans's program on junior commando training school is in youtube (but it is low quality ) shows that NDTV videos can be downloaded. it can be downloaded by desktop video capturing software(not available on internet). 
i will tell you if i get it.


----------



## special

which robot is used in this video? 




is it is variant of dash or Foster-Miller TALON


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> which robot is used in this video?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is it is variant of dash or Foster-Miller TALON



DRDO Daksh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> DRDO Daksh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It's not a Daksh mate.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> It's not a Daksh mate.



I thought Daksh is in use with the Army bomb squad...Whts it then?


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I thought Daksh is in use with the Army bomb squad...Whts it then?



It is- this is the NSG though. The IA operate the Daksh and a few other EOD robots from the US and UK.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> It is- this is the NSG though. The IA operate the Daksh and a few other EOD robots from the US and UK.



Any idea which one is this then?


----------



## kurup

special said:


> anybody know how to download NDTV videos?
> 
> [video]http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-india-documentary/2/283824[/video]
> CIJW-2





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tell me also if you find a way to download it.



Use Internet Download Manager .

I have downloaded NDTV videos using this software .


----------



## rockstarIN

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I posted this story a month ago and now finally i have some pics worth sharing incase you thought i made up the whole story :p
> 
> And please dont post it in other forums.




Which is that big gun apart from INSAS?


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Any idea which one is this then?



it is Foster-Miller TALON
Foster-Miller TALON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## special

kurup said:


> Use Internet Download Manager .
> 
> I have downloaded NDTV videos using this software .



i tried but can can only download the advisement, not the document.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstar said:


> Which is that big gun apart from INSAS?



Bren LMG.....


----------



## rockstarIN

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bren LMG.....



Is it a border post, LoC?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstarIN said:


> Is it a border post, LoC?



This is a RR camp in Kashmir.One of those posts on each sides of their camp to thwart any attack.


----------



## kurup

special said:


> i tried but can can only download the advisement, not the document.



???????? ?? ????, ???????? ?? ??? - 2 Video: NDTV.com

Are you talking about this video ??

I can download this video using IDM and it is not showing any advertisement .

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## special

kurup said:


> ???????? ?? ????, ???????? ?? ??? - 2 Video: NDTV.com
> 
> Are you talking about this video ??
> 
> I can download this video using IDM and it is not showing any advertisement .



I DOWNLOAD it bro, thank you. thank you for your help.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> ???????? ?? ????, ???????? ?? ??? - 2 Video: NDTV.com
> 
> Are you talking about this video ??
> 
> I can download this video using IDM and it is not showing any advertisement .



EXCELLENT techniques...i havent seen better room intervention techniques in a long time.

@Abingdonboy

Bro,Kindly make a video on this and add it to your youtube collection when you are free.We have some excellent room intervention techniques in this.

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> ???????? ?? ????, ???????? ?? ??? - 2 Video: NDTV.com
> 
> Are you talking about this video ??
> 
> I can download this video using IDM and it is not showing any advertisement .



Bro, what is IDM??



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> EXCELLENT techniques...i havent seen better room intervention techniques in a long time.
> 
> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Bro,Kindly make a video on this and add it to your youtube collection when you are free.We have some excellent room intervention techniques in this.


Indeed- was impressed with the weapons handling throughout the vid of every single soldier at CIJWS, the room intervention drills were spot on.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, what is IDM??
> 
> 
> Indeed- was impressed with the weapons handling throughout the vid of every single soldier at CIJWS, the room intervention drills were spot on.



And these were the regulars 

Can someone tell me how to download this video from NDTV site.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And these were the regulars



Exactly- very impressive to say the least.

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## Abingdonboy

@kurup bro, how do I download these NDTV vids???


----------



## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


> @kurup bro, how do I download these NDTV vids???





Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, what is IDM??



IDM is Internet Download Manager .

Install the software . Whenever you play a video on the browser , it will show a button ' Download the video' , just click it and it will show all the formats avaliable to download also.

It is very simple software , bro and you can use it to download video from any site you want 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And these were the regulars
> 
> Can someone tell me how to download this video from NDTV site.



Use Internet Download Manager .


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> IDM is Internet Download Manager .
> 
> Install the software . Whenever you play a video on the browser , it will show a button ' Download the video' , just click it and it will show all the formats avaliable to download also.
> 
> It is very simple software , bro and you can use it to download video from any site you want
> 
> 
> 
> Use Internet Download Manager .



I have downloaded but the video is not downloading.


----------



## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have downloaded but the video is not downloading.



What is the problem you are getting ???


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> What is the problem you are getting ???



When i am adding the video url using the 'Add Url' button its not downloading.


----------



## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> IDM is Internet Download Manager .
> 
> Install the software . Whenever you play a video on the browser , it will show a button ' Download the video' , just click it and it will show all the formats avaliable to download also.
> 
> It is very simple software , bro and you can use it to download video from any site you want
> 
> 
> 
> Use Internet Download Manager .



Thanks a bunch bro- I'll try it tonight!!

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> When i am adding the video url using the 'Add Url' button its not downloading.



don't open the program. you just play the video in google chrome and you can see "Download the video" in the left side bottom of google chrome click that and see two links, click the second link and there appear a box asking were to download. (wait for the video to be play after that you can see two links one shows the length of the video)

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> When i am adding the video url using the 'Add Url' button its not downloading.



The 'add url' option in IDM doesn't work.You need to play the video first,then the Download button should appear automatically.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> don't open the program. you just play the video in google chrome and you can see "Download the video" in the left side bottom of google chrome click that and see two links, click the second link and there appear a box asking were to download.



In google chrome the option is not comming and in Mozilla when i clicked on 'download the video' option some other video got downloaded.


----------



## special

try again. i had download 9 NDTV videos after i install that program in 4pm today. i use google chrome. wait for the documentary to play. you will only get link after the video starts playing.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> try again. i had download 9 NDTV videos after i install that program in 4pm today. i use google chrome. wait for the documentary to play. you will only get link after the video starts playing.



Kindly upload on youtube if you have time.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Kindly upload on youtube if you have time.



the quality is not that good as my internet connection is not much fast. if someone with faster internet can get it in good quality. anyway i 'm uploading it, i will post link when finish the upload.

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## special



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## special



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


>





special said:


>



Thanks a lot buddy 

kindly change the setting from private to public as i cant access it.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thanks a lot buddy
> 
> kindly change the setting from private to public as i cant access it.



its in public


----------



## special

bro it is in public, check it out now.

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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> When i am adding the video url using the 'Add Url' button its not downloading.



As @special explained 'Add Url' usually doesnot work .



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> In google chrome the option is not comming and in Mozilla when i clicked on 'download the video' option some other video got downloaded.



It may be due to other flash videos also playing in the page .

Install the 'flashblock' addon in firefox and then play only the required video , it will download the correct one .

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## Abingdonboy

@kurup/anyone can you recommend a good (free) video converter? I'm wanting to convert the downloaded vids from IDM from FLV to .avi or Mp4 but all the video converters I have downloaded have been a complete bust.

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## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> @kurup/anyone can you recommend a good (free) video converter? I'm wanting to convert the downloaded vids from IDM from FLV to .avi or Mp4 but all the video converters I have downloaded have been a complete bust.



Use this, no software needed, might help. N°1 Free online Video Converter


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @kurup/anyone can you recommend a good (free) video converter? I'm wanting to convert the downloaded vids from IDM from FLV to .avi or Mp4 but all the video converters I have downloaded have been a complete bust.



@Abingdonboy has got to work...the cyber world is gonna see a amazing IA video soon  

I am waiting for your video bro

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## Abingdonboy

Dillinger said:


> Use this, no software needed, might help. N°1 Free online Video Converter


Thanks bro, I'm having issues using this site to download off my hard drive- it just isn't doing it.

Any other recommendations??


----------



## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> Thanks bro, I'm having issues using this site to download off my hard drive- it just isn't doing it.
> 
> Any other recommendations??


Online video converter to MP4

This one always works for me.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Dillinger said:


> Online video converter to MP4
> 
> This one always works for me.



No watermarks?


----------



## proud_indian

@Abingdonboy

try this

XMedia Recode - Download

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## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> No watermarks?



NONE WHATSOEVER.

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## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


> @kurup/anyone can you recommend a good (free) video converter? I'm wanting to convert the downloaded vids from IDM from FLV to .avi or Mp4 but all the video converters I have downloaded have been a complete bust.



They are many good video converters . You can try one of these .

1. Format Factory
2. Oxelon Media Converter
3. Total Video Converter

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## Abingdonboy

My latest vid:

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## special

Indian Special Forces and the Proxy War

By N. Johnson Meetei *



( The aim of this paper is to suggest the NSG (National Security Guards) to be under the command and control of the Army after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks ) 

The terror attacks on 26th of November 2008 in Mumbai clearly reminded all of us the neglected and ignored homeland security policy of our country. It has also very clearly demonstrated in a very shameful manner the way we react to such barbaric aggressions. The Mumbai police is highly praised for the sacrifices they made specially in the way they challenged the highly trained and well armed terrorists with their outdated 2nd world war rifles and the worthless bullet proof jackets. 

But on the other side, it also tells us about the conditions we presently exist to fight such terrorists with sophisticated weapons and training. If there is a list of countries in the world that has been victims of terrorism and external aggression time and again, India and Israel will surely top the list. Both countries have been affected very deeply in very similar ways. But there is a vast difference in the response of these two countries towards terrorism. 

Our country shies away with the idea of using all the sophisticated weapons and resources it possesses to counter terrorism while the tiny nation of Israel uses everything that it has for the same purpose. We are a "soft and considerate nation" but our adversaries are not like us. We are trained for "an eye for an eye" but we don't perform as such. Our well motivated and well trained soldiers finish their career always in the waiting line for orders that comes from never trained and never motivated leaders. 

This only lead to more and more attacks inside the country, anywhere, anytime. Geographic considerations of both India and Israel are almost the same. Both countries are surrounded by hostile countries that do not blink an eye when creating support and violent activities. Of course, one argument has always been existing from experts that unlike India, Isreal is not surrounded by militarily stronger or equivalent countries. Very true. 

Pakistan is not a militarily weak nation, so as China. We have already faced a humiliating defeat at the hands of the treacherous Chinese in the 1962 Indo-China border war. But militarily, this defeat came as a savior for our country's armed forces. Our political leaders also learnt a very big lesson. We learnt another lesson again after the Kargil conflict. But it seems that we forgot our own history very fast. The 26/11 mumbai attacks have woken up our political leaders again. 

We are going for a massive purchase of military equipments again. It seems we react only to situations. Nothing seems to happen until someone throws a brick on the face of our political leaders. In fact we are a regional super power now in Asia along with China only because of the 1962 defeat at the hands of the Chinese. After the war with China, billions of cash was poured into the military so that we don't face another defeat ever again. We went through massive purchase of arms from all around the world. 

The outdated weapons and equipments were upgraded in a massive scale. The result of this was the 1965 and the brilliant performance of our armed forces in the 1971 war with Pakistan which led to the creation of Bangladesh. But then we forgot to keep pace with the changing times. We were so blinded by the 1971 victory that we had to pay a very big price in the Kargil conflict in 1999. 

We suffered a number of avoidable casualties just because our political leaders did not care to allot funds to buy and install the artillery fire locating radar. In the official report after the war, it was clearly mentioned that we suffered more casualties in direct enemy artillery fire than the casualties in the firefight to dislodge the Pakistani military personnel from our territory. The Pakistanis already had this radar bought from the USA. 

All armies in the world are trained to fight a conventional war. India is no exception. But it is high time we accept the reality. India has been facing a war which is not conventional at all. This war is fought not in a battle field. The government calls it as "proxy war" from across the western border. It is a very convenient war for the adversary. It's also a very low cost and very effective kind of war. But times have changed. 

India is now in a better condition to deal with this kind of terrorism courtesy September 11 in the United States. Military technology have also changed. Therefore, methods of war will also have to be changed. Even though not entirely, the way we fight a battle depends upon the kind of weapon technology that we possess. Military weapons and battle tactics are "two sides of the same coin". During the Kargil conflict, our soldiers had to face a lot of problems with the then newly inducted INSAS 5.56 rifles. 

This rifle is an excellent weapon but during the Kargil war our soldiers had problems with "zeroing" the target and the rifle. Some of the units that fought in the Kargil conflict were new to this rifle. Now the army special forces are equipped with the Tavor. The official name of this weapon is TAR 21 Assault Rifle. Full name is Tavor Assault Rifle 21st century. This rifle was used during the "Operation Summer Storm" in Loktak Lake, Manipur by the Indian Para Special Forces. 

Presently we face more threats from suicide bombers and suicide attackers than a full conventional war with tanks, artillery, infantry, warplanes, battleships etc. The USA has been very pro-active in its war policy and development of new advanced weapons and military hardware. Unconventional war calls for a very different kind of warfare fought by small troops specially trained, motivated, and armed with weapons that are different from the regular army units. 

In the present global scenario, terrorism has become the most deadly and existing threat to human survival. All nations are slowly taking steps to ensure a terrorism free society. The fundamentalist terrorists have no name, no territory, no sympathy towards human lives. The primary objective of these terrorists seems to be more into taking revenge rather than going for a definite goal. 

At the same time, they are also very well trained, well equipped and well financed. The individuals who carried out the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks were no ordinary foot soldiers. They used tactics that are taught similar to the special forces proving very clearly the involvement of the Pakistan's elite special force, the SSG (Special Services Group). Unlike India's NSG being under the command and control of the home ministry, the Pakistan SSG exists entirely under the Pakistan Army. The infiltration tactics of the 26/11 attackers starting right from Karachi in Pakistan till Mumbai were the signature of a very well trained group of commandos. 

So now how do we fight such an adversary? In our country, the term "special forces" has become a very confusing term. It seems, after the Mumbai attacks, almost every state in the whole country seems to be putting efforts raising their own "special force". But our political leaders will keep the NSG because we need someone to be blamed for taking such a long time to come to the scene, for being so late, for being so poorly equipped, for all the innocent lives lost due to the delay, for not having their own transport aircraft, etc etc !! 

It will be very true to say that our political leaders have a stereotype of depending only on the NSG, ignoring the fact that other anti terrorism assets are available nearby from the army, navy and the airforce. If only we have had a Joint Special Forces Command with a senior level officer from either the army, navy or the airforce in command, there would have been no need to wait for the NSG to come all the way from Haryana or New Delhi to finish the unfinished counter operation from the elite navy MARCOS and the Mumbai Police whose personnel were already on the scene. 

Proper instructions or orders from the top level of the central government would have been enough to activate all the elite resources of the army, navy and the airforce. Under no circumstances these three armed forces would have refused to undertake the task of eliminating the terrorists if only the proper authority from the central government would have issued the orders. The reality is that we still do not have a proper command and control structure in place to deal with situations like the Mumbai attacks. It will be very shameful for the citizens of this country to say that the army special forces, navy MARCOS and the airfore GARUD are not trained or equipped to carry out the Mumbai operations. 

In any case, let us try to see how we can do better. The NSG functions directly under the home ministry and is responsible for counter terrorism (CT), anti hijacking, hostage rescue etc. The NSG is divided into two components, the SAG ( Special Action Group and the SRG (Special Ranger Group ). The primary task of the SAG is actually the primary objective of the NSG itself such as CT, anti hijacking, hostage rescue etc. 

Please consider the fact that all members of the SAG are entirely from the army. On the other hand, the primary task of the SRG is isolation and cordoning the target area. It is manned entirely of personnel from the Central Paramilitary Forces like the CRPF, CISF, ITBP, etc. The NSG also protect VIPs even though they are not officially chartered to do so. 

This VIP protection detail is done by the SRG. The SRG role of isolating and cordoning the target area can be done by the state police or any other paramilitary force of the home ministry. This particular role does not have to be performed by the NSG. Therefore it will be much and more better organized if the SRG is separated from the NSG and then merge it with the SPG (Special Protection Group) which has a similar role protecting VIPs. 

Because, other than the role of the SRG protecting VIPs, the role of isolating and cordoning target areas can be done by the state police force or the paramilitary forces. Now as for the SAG, as it is already manned entirely by the army personnel, it will be very correct and more sensible if the entire command and control is given to the army. 

Presently the SAG wing of the NSG exists in the form of "borrowed time" of the Army personnel. An Inspector General from the police controls the entire NSG (read SAG), which consists of only army personnel. After detaching the SRG, the remaining NSG, then only with the SAG, should become an elite anti terrorism force of the army like the SAS, DELTA Force etc. It is also very strongly suggested that we have a Joint Special Operations Command consisting of the army NSG, navy MARCOS and the airforce GARUD. 

But in case if there is a very strong opinion that the NSG should be in its present form then we should seriously consider the logic behind keeping and operating army personnel under the control and command of a police officer. Police officers are not trained like the army. It takes an "Army Commander to command the "Army". Many senior army officers, both retired and serving, have expressed views similar to this paper. 

After all these, things will be better organized and situations like the Mumbai terror attacks will be dealt in a more faster and coordinated manner. The MARCOS will no longer have to hand over an "ongoing operation" to the "delayed" NSG because if we have the army NSG united with the navy MARCOS and the airforce GARUD under the "Joint Special Operations Command", the responsibility of CT, anti hijacking and hostage rescue will fall under the joint command itself. 

Therefore, the handover of responsibility by the MARCOS to the NSG like in the Mumbai terror attacks will no longer exists. As the global security has increased, our special forces will also have to be re organized, re structured and better armed to tackle these threats. The use of our army Para Special Forces battalions like a "Super Infantry Battalion" should be reconsidered. We need to be pro active. We need to be leaders, not followers. 

Indian Special Forces and Proxy war


----------



## Abingdonboy

@kurup @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Dillinger @anyone


Guys, I've finished my latest vid (its of the Garuds) but am struggling to find an appropriate sound track. Can you help by suggesting a few? English or Indian I don't mind. But I would prefer the soundtrack to have lyrics and not be an instrumental.


----------



## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=140104" target="_blank">kurup</a></u> @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=139575" target="_blank">Koovie</a></u> @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=30442" target="_blank">COLDHEARTED AVIATOR</a></u> @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=140145" target="_blank">Dillinger</a></u> @anyone
> 
> 
> Guys, I've finished my latest vid (its of the Garuds) but am struggling to find an appropriate sound track. Can you help by suggesting a few? English or Indian I don't mind. But I would prefer the soundtrack to have lyrics and not be an instrumental.



Try Breaking Benjamin's "Unknown Soldier" or "I will not bow".

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## Dillinger

@Abingdonboy 

Or try- 
1) "Indestructible" by Disturbed 






2) "This means war" by Nickelback






3) "You're going down" by Sick Puppies

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## Abingdonboy

My latest vid:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> My latest vid:



Nice...i am waiting for your video on CIJWS.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nice...i am waiting for your video on CIJWS.



A couple of days 'brah and you'll see it- hopefully by Wednesday.

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## Abingdonboy

Foreigners training at CIJWS in 2012:








Look American to me.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Foreigners training at CIJWS in 2012:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look American to me.



If they are American and if it is indeed 2012 then they are SEALs.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> If they are American and if it is indeed 2012 then they are SEALs.



It is 100% 2012. Why do you say they are SEALs?


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Foreigners training at CIJWS in 2012:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look American to me.




this photo is taken from a video( may be a tv report) can you provide the link to that video?



Abingdonboy said:


> It is 100% 2012. Why do you say they are SEALs?



how do you find it is in 2012? vajra prahar exce. conducted by army in 2012 is in nahan, maybe this photo is from that.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> It is 100% 2012. Why do you say they are SEALs?



Simple...only they used this camo till 2012.Everyone else had digicamo.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Simple...only they used this camo till 2012.Everyone else had digicamo.



may be indian army give this to them.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> may be indian army give this to them.



I dont think so..This is a standard US Army camo pattern.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont think so..This is a standard US Army camo pattern.



indian army use this camo too, indian army use this for jungle terrain. the US personal is using indian army Tavor too. i think it is the photo from vajra prahar 2012 conducted at nahan.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Simple...only they used this camo till 2012.Everyone else had digicamo.


Hmm, I thought the SEAL teams had digicam for a while (DEVGRU have had it since 2011 for sure). If these are SEALs- they look a bit out of shape (for SFs). 


special said:


> indian army use this camo too, indian army use this for jungle terrain. the US personal is using indian army Tavor too. i think it is the photo from vajra prahar 2012 conducted at nahan.


 @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR is right- this is the standard issue (formerly) US woodland pattern. It is pretty distinctive.


And this is 100% CIJWS- that yellow bus is a give away. 

No pics have emerged of Ex-vajra prahar 2012 to date AFAIK.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Hmm, I thought the SEAL teams had digicam for a while (DEVGRU have had it since 2011 for sure). If these are SEALs- they look a bit out of shape (for SFs).
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR is right- this is the standard issue (formerly) US woodland pattern. It is pretty distinctive.
> 
> 
> And this is 100% CIJWS- that yellow bus is a give away.
> 
> No pics have emerged of Ex-vajra prahar 2012 to date AFAIK.



They were the last of the US SF to have the digi camo AFAIK.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They were the last of the US SF to have the digi camo AFAIK.



Yes, I'm just not too sure how late they changed over. It is possible not all teams switched over at the same time.


I am a big fan of their new woodland digicam though:













VERY COOL!


But like I said- for SEALs, these guys look a bit out of shape.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> But like I said- for SEALs, these guys look a bit out of shape.



Instructors maybe..


----------



## Abingdonboy

Our old friend @boris would like to add to this discussion:




> Those guys are not SEALs I think they are either Polish SF possibly JW Formoza or JW Komandosow or US Army SF.
> 
> As far as the camo goes then please add there that US Army SF,SEALs and SMU's have used different camo's in Iraq,Afghanistan i.e depending on the terrain. That kind of camo has been used by the Green Berets only in Jungles since the 80's, they don't use digi camo in jungles. Unlike the US Army and USMC all US SOF operatives especially from Delta and ST6 have a lot of flexibility regarding what camo to wear


----------



## Abingdonboy

My latest vid:

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## kurup

special said:


> this photo is taken from a video( may be a tv report) can you provide the link to that video?.



This is the video - *kaushlendra ERT Mizoram*

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## kurup

The same guy who uploaded the above video appears to be a commando trained from CIJWS . He has uploded two more videos .These videos appears to be from his personal collection . Although I have no idea if these videos are cleared for public viewing , since it is avaliable in Youtube for everyone , I am posting it here .


*Kaushlendra ERT CIJWS*







*Commando Training Kaushlendra ERT *

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> This is the video - *kaushlendra ERT Mizoram*





kurup said:


> The same guy who uploaded the above video appears to be a commando trained from CIJWS . He has uploded two more videos .These videos appears to be from his personal collection . Although I have no idea if these videos are cleared for public viewing , since it is avaliable in Youtube for everyone , I am posting it here .
> 
> 
> *Kaushlendra ERT CIJWS*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Commando Training Kaushlendra ERT *



Yeah buddy- this is where I grabbed the screenshot from. 


I'm pretty sure this guy is a cop part of an Emergency Response Team (ERT) but no idea from which state/police department.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Our old friend @boris would like to add to this discussion:



I strongly disagree..moreoever i have doubts over the year being 2012 also.

This is a pre 2009 excercise in CIJWS involving PARA SF and US SF.

You can also check the camo of the Indian operator to confirm.


And here are Polish SF pics in CIJWS

















The Indian operator was wearing this camo which was outdated in 2012







Another pic from the same excercise







-----------------------------------------------------------

What happened to boris..I am soo surprised he came up with something like this when Polish SF training with Indian SF pics are so openly available in the web world.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah buddy- this is where I grabbed the screenshot from.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this guy is a cop part of an Emergency Response Team (ERT) but no idea from which state/police department.



He is from the Border Security Force.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I strongly disagree..moreoever i have doubts over the year being 2012 also.
> 
> This is a pre 2009 excercise in CIJWS involving PARA SF and US SF.
> 
> You can also check the camo of the Indian operator to confirm.
> 
> 
> And here are Polish SF pics in CIJWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Indian operator was wearing this camo which was outdated in 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another pic from the same excercise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> What happened to boris..I am soo surprised he came up with something like this when Polish SF training with Indian SF are so openly available in the web world.


I'm not sure about them being US Army SF as they have been using the UCP (Universal Camouflage Pattern) since ~2005 and US Army SF were the first guys to get this camo. And the second pic is of US army regulars at CIJWS in 2004.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He is from the Border Security Force.



Hmmm, didn't know the BSF had an ERT.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm not sure about them being US Army SF as they have been using the UCP (Universal Camouflage Pattern) since ~2005 and US Army SF were the first guys to get this camo. And the second pic is of US army regulars at CIJWS in 2004.



Thatswhy i am saying theres a good chance of them being US Navy Seals because there are pics in the web world of Seals using the standard US Army camo till 2011-12.

Moreoever bro,this guy(who uploaded the video) could have just clicked this pic from a portrait..haha i know its unbelievable but people do these kind of stuff.My friend shocked me when he showed me a similar pic clicked from his 3 mp camera.



Abingdonboy said:


> Hmmm, didn't know the BSF had an ERT.



Why not?


And yeah he is from BSF..Black beret with BSF badge and BSF tab on his arms..he is a BSF soldier for sure.

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## zilahumafazal

nice traning shoop in this post

nice training shoots in this post


----------



## IamBengali

Nice thread.


----------



## anyrandom

I dont know where to post it so i am posting here as you guys are already discussing about camo's.

I bought this new cargo from levi's, what is this pattern called or is it just custom made without any military use?


----------



## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> I dont know where to post it so i am posting here as you guys are already discussing about camo's.
> 
> I bought this new cargo from levi's, what is this pattern called or is it just custom made without any military use?



Looks like a generic DPM bro, I don't know if it belongs to a specific military or not.

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## kurup

> early this month, Zafran Ghulam Sarwar, Wajid Akbar, Mohammad Wajid Akbar and Mohammad Faisal left their homes on the Pakistani side of the control in the Neelam valley, and never came back. *Pakistan claims they were innocent herb collectors, who were kidnapped by an Indian special forces engaged in an offensive counter-terrorism operation across the Line of Control*.
> 
> India says it has no idea what happened to the men. Not long after they disappeared, though, five still-unidentified men were shot dead by Indian troops in the same area, 500 metres on the Indian side of the Line of Control. Naresh Vij, an Indian army spokesperson, said troops had &#8220;not recovered any bodies as they are lying very far.&#8221;
> 
> Privately, *Indian intelligence officials* posted in the sector *speculate* the men may have indeed been t*argetted by special forces &#8212; but insist they were guides for jihadist groups crossing the Line of Control, not innocent men executed by the army for no reason at all.*



Exclusive: Dirty war on LoC preceded deadly Poonch ambush - Firstpost


----------



## special

cam anybody translate what is saying here;


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Talking of camo..guys check this out.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Talking of camo..guys check this out.



Hmmm- what's this about?? The guy isn't a PARA (badge on beret) but is definitely IA. 


Very intriguing!


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Hmmm- what's this about?? The guy isn't a PARA (badge on beret) but is definitely IA.
> 
> 
> Very intriguing!



What do you think?F-INSAS camo or...


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Talking of camo..guys check this out.



did you have any more details about the camo of 3rd from right in second row?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Regular PARA




















special said:


> did you have any more details about the camo of 3rd from right in second row?




Its from an OTA function


----------



## special

guys sorry if posted before. marcos in action at mumbai terror attack in taj hotal
Seriously, i will give 4/10 for their QCB. as a special force they had to act better at there


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Its from an OTA function


The guy is 100% IA though. 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What do you think?F-INSAS camo or...



Bro, I don't know what to think. It looks to be identical to the CRPF's COBRA camo ie the USMC's MARPAT jungle camo. 


If this was the camo for F-INSAS, I wouldn't mind that at all

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## special

marcos in mumbai 2011


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> guys sorry if posted before. marcos in action at mumbai terror attack in taj hotal
> Seriously, i will give 4/10 for their QCB. as a special force they had to act better at there



Lets not be blinded by our patriortism.What is wrong needs to be pointed out.

This is a shitty CQB drill for a SF unit.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Lets not be blinded by our patriortism.What is wrong needs to be pointed out.
> 
> This is a shitty CQB drill for a SF unit.



it is not a drill, it is real action. hope marcos has changed a lot. navy chief said in 2008 that navy will provide additional training to marcos in counterterrorism and they will not send marcos personal to NSG.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> it is not a drill, it is real action. hope marcos has changed a lot. navy chief said in 2008 that navy will provide additional training to marcos in counterterrorism and they will not send marcos personal to NSG.



Bhai,its called a drill only.

After PARA SF i trust NSG only with any big operation that this country has to take.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Lets not be blinded by our patriortism.What is wrong needs to be pointed out.
> 
> This is a shitty CQB drill for a SF unit.


Agreed. I have heard that post 26/11 all 3 SOFs have seriously beefed up their CQB training modules and refresher training as well as all 3 of them investing in dedicated CQB equipment like fibre-optic cameras and Cornershots. 


Things will be very different today no doubt.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bhai,its called a drill only.
> 
> After PARA SF i trust NSG only with any big operation that this country has to take.



don't know about NSG's QCB. marcos are trained by SG of SFF, which is the parent force of NSG. marcos get training from US and britain. in here they look like they don't know the gravity of the situation, the way they dealing with the situation is similar to a police force dealing a gang war.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> don't know about NSG's QCB. marcos are trained by SG of SFF, which is the parent force of NSG. marcos get training from US and britain. in here they look like they don't know the gravity of the situation, the way they dealing with the situation is similar to a police force dealing a gang war.



Are you sure Marcos get trained by SG?


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Are you sure Marcos get trained by SG?



yes. SG provide training to marcos.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> yes. SG provide training to marcos.



Dont mind me asking but what is the source of this info?


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Lets not be blinded by our patriortism.What is wrong needs to be pointed out.
> 
> This is a shitty CQB drill for a SF unit.


 
In this video QCB of marcos look very good, may be had better training after 26/11







COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dont mind me asking but what is the source of this info?



read in an article published in The Times of India(a naval officer said in that) in 2008


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> In this video QCB of marcos look very good, may be had better training after 26/11
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> read in an article published in The Times of India(a naval officer said in that) in 2008



Yeah i have the video in my laptop.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeah i have the video in my laptop.



ya i have it in my desktop, lap and in my mobile.
do you think all the sean shown in this video are of marcos?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> ya i have it in my desktop, lap and in my mobile.
> do you think all the sean shown in this video are of marcos?



Ya..what about you?


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya..what about you?



some scene in it seams like western special forces


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> some scene in it seams like western special forces



Tell me the part..i will check.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tell me the part..i will check.



o:40-1:30 it looks like SAS in QCB training


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> o:40-1:30 it looks like SAS in QCB training



SAS are better than that.

Its 100% MARCOS.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> SAS are better than that.
> 
> Its 100% MARCOS.



see the 1:03 the uniform is different. the QCB shown in here resembling the SAS in the discovery channel "SAS-counterterrorism" i'm not saying this is copy paste, but in that program SAS has similar Uniform, backpack, and weapon and movement is also same.(1:10-1:20)


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> see the 1:03 the uniform is different. the QCB shown in here resembling the SAS in the discovery channel "SAS-counterterrorism" i'm not saying this is copy paste, but in that program SAS has similar Uniform, backpack, and weapon and movement is also same.(1:10-1:20)



That kit is with PARA SF also and the same guys are doing shooting in daylight before that.So i doubt they are SAS.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That kit is with PARA SF also and the same guys are doing shooting in daylight before that.So i doubt they are SAS.



that video was 1st uploaded in the name of "CISF". what do you think, is this video is uploaded by a marcos personal? fans will not be able to make that video as it is never shown. civilians and reporters don't have an access to marcos training center.


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> see the 1:03 the uniform is different. the QCB shown in here resembling the SAS in the discovery channel "SAS-counterterrorism" i'm not saying this is copy paste, but in that program SAS has similar Uniform, backpack, and weapon and movement is also same.(1:10-1:20)



These are 100% MARCOs. You can even see the MP5 with a MARS red ***- the only unit I have ever seen with this pairing is MARCOs. 


There's nothing in this vid to suggest they are not 100% MARCOs.



special said:


> that video was 1st uploaded in the name of "CISF". what do you think, is this video is uploaded by a marcos personal? fans will not be able to make that video as it is never shown. civilians and reporters don't have an access to marcos training center.



I'm presuming this was uploaded by some civilian or naval personnel (NOT MARCOs).


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> These are 100% MARCOs. You can even see the MP5 with a MARS red ***- the only unit I have ever seen with this pairing is MARCOs.
> 
> 
> There's nothing in this vid to suggest they are not 100% MARCOs.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm presuming this was uploaded by some civilian or naval personnel (NOT MARCOs).




why not marcos? in military, taking videos and photos of any unit that is not belongs to photographer is a serious offence. only marcos get this much access to their training.


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> why not marcos? in military, taking videos and photos of any unit that is not belongs to photographer is a serious offence. only marcos get this much access to their training.



I'm sure the vid was shot and edited by MARCOs or their support staff. But I have no doubt it was not a MARCO who uploaded this to you tube.


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> These are 100% MARCOs. You can even see the MP5 with a MARS red ***- the only unit I have ever seen with this pairing is MARCOs.
> 
> .



i see MARS red sight now, i had never get attention to the MARS red sight before


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm sure the vid was shot and edited by MARCOs or their support staff. But I have no doubt it was not a MARCO who uploaded this to you tube.



the name given to the video is CISF.!! the uploader is not the original owner of this video then why did he change the name?


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> the name given to the video is CISF.!! the uploader is not the original owner of this video then why did he change the name?



Exactly- he didn't shoot the vid he somehow lucked into it and uploaded it as CISF because he didn't know any better!!


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Exactly- he didn't shoot the vid he somehow lucked into it and uploaded it as CISF because he didn't know any better!!



chance for this is too less. if the uploader is not MARCOS then he must have close relation with the photographer. and he must know what is the job of the photographer. 

another possibility, if the uploader is marcos then he might change the title to avoid unwanted attention of the unit commander. in youtube the mail id is shown with the video, if the original uploader is marcos then he will get caught if he give the title as MARCOS. so he gave CISF, if anyway nobody in the unit is not gonna watch CISF video. the unloader knows that anybody(civilians or fans) who watch the video will download and upload it in its correct title for this had shown the marcos training center and its building showing "marcos east" to understand that the video is about marcos not about cisf. and if the unit commander saw the video uploaded by somebody else in the correct title will not do any problem to the original owner in the unit.


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> chance for this is too less. if the uploader is not MARCOS then he must have close relation with the photographer. and he must know what is the job of the photographer.
> 
> another possibility, if the uploader is marcos then he might change the title to avoid unwanted attention of the unit commander. in youtube the mail id is shown with the video, if the original uploader is marcos then he will get caught if he give the title as MARCOS. so he gave CISF, if anyway nobody in the unit is not gonna watch CISF video. the unloader knows that anybody(civilians or fans) who watch the video will download and upload it in its correct title for this had shown the marcos training center and its building showing "marcos east" to understand that the video is about marcos not about cisf. and if the unit commander saw the video uploaded by somebody else in the correct title will not do any problem to the original owner in the unit.


I don't buy it- why would a MARCOs jeopardize his career to upload a vid onto youtube for strangers??


This is a vid that was meant for internal consumption that has been uploaded by someone (civilian) under a wrong heading by accident.


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't buy it- why would a MARCOs jeopardize his career to upload a vid onto youtube for strangers??
> 
> 
> This is a vid that was meant for internal consumption that has been uploaded by someone (civilian) under a wrong heading by accident.



to get attention of civilians. do you understand the feeling of man if his entire hard work is unnoticed by others. may be he want to show the world how tough is his unit, it is only a possibility.
or if the uploader is a fan or a close relative/friend if he is not allowed to upload this video by the original owner then the uploader will change the name of video and upload it.


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> to get attention of civilians. do you understand the feeling of man if his entire hard work is unnoticed by others. may be he want to show the world how tough is his unit, it is only a possibility.
> or if the uploader is a fan or a close relative/friend if he is not allowed to upload this video by the original owner then the uploader will change the name of video and upload it.


I don't know who uploaded it but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't a MARCO. The Indian SOFs take pride in being elusive and secretive. Not to mention they sign confidentially agreements. It simply isn't work risking his career and pension over trying to get some attention.


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't know who uploaded it but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't a MARCO. The Indian SOFs take pride in being elusive and secretive. Not to mention they sign confidentially agreements. It simply isn't work risking his career and pension over trying to get some attention.



may be you are right. it is just a possibility, may be the truth is different from all this.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> to get attention of civilians. do you understand the feeling of man if his entire hard work is unnoticed by others. may be he want to show the world how tough is his unit, it is only a possibility.
> or if the uploader is a fan or a close relative/friend if he is not allowed to upload this video by the original owner then the uploader will change the name of video and upload it.



@Abingdonboy this guy reminds me of you.

His energy is really impressive.

Hope he too becomes a elite member like you

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy this guy reminds me of you.
> 
> His energy is really impressive.
> 
> Hope he too becomes a elite member like you


Haha bro . With "elite member" status comes cynicsm!


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> With "elite member" status comes cynicsm!



???How????


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ???How????


Lol- the longer you stay on here the more you learn and understand. You do lose some of your naivety. 

But that's just par for the course bro!


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> Just a Q to all the Pakistanis- note I do NOT intend to be offensive, so ignore me if I come across that way- but can you show me any pics of your SFs looking this good and proffesional??? These pics of MARCOS show they are 1 of the best in the world along with what is already known about their rigourous training and fearsome reputation (Along with PARA SF).





Ok 19 years old kiddo........what exactly they have done to be best?

72 hrs to take down some 9 rag tag civilian militants??

And visit Pakistan Army Multimedia Thread watch the Real Mean Men.....

Or maybe they r best just because they wear masks and SSG dont


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Umair Nawaz said:


> Ok 19 years old kiddo........what exactly they have done to be best?
> 
> 72 hrs to take down some 9 rag tag civilian militants??
> 
> And visit Pakistan Army Multimedia Thread watch the Real Mean Men.....
> 
> Or maybe they r best just because they wear masks and SSG dont



Oh, now one more kid has escaped from his kindergarten..............

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## Umair Nawaz

Capt.Popeye said:


> Oh, now one more kid has escaped from his kindergarten..............



Ahh Really Mr Popeye

So i a kid then what that makes a person whose Account is based on a Cartoon Character of 50s

If im a kid then yr not yet born.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Umair Nawaz said:


> Ahh Really Mr Popeye
> 
> So i a kid then what that makes a person whose Account is based on a Cartoon Character of 50s
> 
> If im a kid then yr not yet born.



Maybe I was mistaken? Do Madrassahs even have kindergartens?

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## Umair Nawaz

Capt.Popeye said:


> Maybe I was mistaken? Do Madrassahs even have kindergartens?





Sure atleast its still better then a Mandir with Indian Special Forces of Swamis and Pundits


----------



## Bratva

Abingdonboy said:


> Just a Q to all the Pakistanis- note I do NOT intend to be offensive, so ignore me if I come across that way- but can you show me any pics of your SFs looking this good and proffesional??? These pics of MARCOS show they are 1 of the best in the world along with what is already known about their rigourous training and fearsome reputation (Along with PARA SF).



Special services wing- PAF commandos. 

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3558747559654


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Umair Nawaz said:


> Ok 19 years old kiddo........what exactly they have done to be best?
> 
> 72 hrs to take down some 9 rag tag civilian militants??
> 
> And visit Pakistan Army Multimedia Thread watch the Real Mean Men.....
> 
> Or maybe they r best just because they wear masks and SSG dont



Real men of steel lost against Indian regular soldiers over the issue you cry till now about known as Siachen.


Real men of steel raised the white flag when para dropped in Indian territory to destroy Indian airfields.


Real men of steel surrender in front of taliban.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Real men of steel lost against Indian regular soldiers over the issue you cry till now about known as Siachen.
> 
> 
> Real men of steel raised the white flag when para dropped in Indian territory to destroy Indian airfields.
> 
> 
> Real men of steel surrender in front of taliban.





U thick Headed uneducated Hindus..... Yr knowledge abt Military is even more uglier then u look.

1)In Siachin u had invaded a barren land which was not a military zone not even a man or human civilization lives there. The G-B is in Control of Northern Light Infantry which got commissioned in Pak army as late as 1989 and this incident happened in 84. Its was NLI that was deployed there not regular army men let alone SSG.

2)But still in 99 when these just 4,500 men took off 30,000 mammoth and better equipped in Armed Forces  We all know what was happened they reached up to Tiger Hill. And thanks to Israeli SFs u were able to turn the tide later in war(according to Israeli Envoy's Interview to a dehli based magazine in 2010). So yr kiddish SFs and regular infantrymen still failed against our Light infantry Battalions let alone SSG.

3)LOL when did that happened in yr dreams last night?? 

4)  This is not IOK where indian army runs with both hands on its back and then kidnap Children and civilians to save themselves and bury them in Mass Graves.....

These r the real men we r talking about. Just Read about our Operations against terrorism like Swat, Bajour, South Waziristan, Operation tiran Valley etc etc and u will know why i call them THE MEN OF STEEL.

Now run away and educate yourself.



mafiya said:


> Special services wing- PAF commandos.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3558747559654



its not available.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> What an ignorant question that has been discussed to death SO many times here and on other sites. Here is the short answer:
> 
> 1) the Mumbai police were simply overwhelmed by the scale of the attacks as they unfolded and the confusion that persisted at the time threw the Mumbai police into chaos. As the events unfolded there were literally 10,000s of reports and calls coming into the police control room of bombs all over the city and gunmen everywhere. The terrorists were smart enough to create such chaos by planting numerous IEDs in mobile targets such as taxis so the police were sent to numerous locations and the terrorists themselves optimised their numbers by splitting into small teams and constantly moving around.
> 
> 
> The Mumbai police's plight was not helped by having the most senior members of its anti-terror squad killed by the terrorists in the line of duty.
> 
> 
> 2) the slow response by dedicated CT teams- NSG/MARCOs. Firstly the elite IN MARCOs who have a base in Mumbai were ready and waiting to be given the go to enter Mumbai but the Mumbai police/GOVT were initially reluctant to ask for outside help and/or realise the seriousness of the situation. Once the MARCOs were given the "go" they were on scene relatively quickly and able to contain the terrorists somewhat until NSG arrived. Secondly the NSG who are the country's dedicated CT force and whose role it was to combat such attacks faced serious delays in getting to Mumbai. The IAF IL-76 that flew them to Mumbai from Delhi where they are based had to be flown in from Chandigarh in Punjab. Once the NSG were on the ground they were effective in ending the situation but initial delays could not made up for.
> 
> 3) the nature of this attack. This attack was the most audacious and revolutionary since 9/11- attackers coming in from sea and going on a murderous rampage in built up areas and hotels. Most police forces agreed their initial response to the attacks wouldn't have been any better.* These terrorists had been trained by professional military of Pakistan and it was like a SF insertion rather than the typical rag-tag militia and their tactics and weapon handling mirror this*. The fact the hotels/locations combined had over 4,000 rooms meant this was a MAMMOTH task for and SF and all SFs agree this was an incredible op by NSG which they couldn't have done any better in the same circumstances.
> 
> 
> There are of course numerous other factors but I don't feel the need to go any more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm glad to report most if not all shortcomings realised during 26/11 have been resolved. NSG hubs have been raised in most major cities, most states/cities have raised/upgraded police QRT/SWAT teams to give adequate response as first responders including Mumbai/Mahrastra police who have QRT/ Force One. Also NSG have been given a MASSIVE upgrade that we can already see in recent vids and by 2014-5 they will be unstoppable. Also they have been given the means to commend ere any commercial aircraft in Delhi airport (where they are based) if a military AC is not available. (although during recent Mumbai blasts the NSG QRF were alerted and loaded onto a RAW ARC IL-76, based in Delhi, on the Tarmac and ready to respond within 15 mins). There are many other measures that have also been taken but, again, there's no need to go any deeper.
> 
> 
> 
> And the response to such scenarios is not measured in conventional military might. It is easy for you to sit there an question in hindsight but the fact this was a completely new form of terror sim
> Ly can't be understated. NO ONE IN THE WORLD WAS READY IN 2008 FOR SUCH AN ATTACK.



Kiddo Kiddo Those were just 9 men and were poorly trained civilians thats all.

None of Professional armed forces trained them. 

Get yr facts right or provide authentic proof.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Umair Nawaz said:


> U thick Headed uneducated Hindus..... Yr knowledge abt Military is even more uglier then u look.
> 
> 1)In Siachin u had invaded a barren land which was not a military zone not even a man or human civilization lives there. The G-B is in Control of Northern Light Infantry which got commissioned in Pak army as late as 1989 and this incident happened in 84. Its was NLI that was deployed there not regular army men let alone SSG.
> 
> 2)But still in 99 when these just 4,500 men took off 30,000 mammoth and better equipped in Armed Forces  We all know what was happened they reached up to Tiger Hill. And thanks to Israeli SFs u were able to turn the tide later in war(according to Israeli Envoy's Interview to a dehli based magazine in 2010). So yr kiddish SFs and regular infantrymen still failed against our Light infantry Battalions let alone SSG.
> 
> 3)LOL when did that happened in yr dreams last night??
> 
> 4)  This is not IOK where indian army runs with both hands on its back and then kidnap Children and civilians to save themselves and bury them in Mass Graves.....
> 
> These r the real men we r talking about. Just Read about our Operations against terrorism like Swat, Bajour, South Waziristan, Operation tiran Valley etc etc and u will know why i call them THE MEN OF STEEL.
> 
> Now run away and educate yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> its not available.



yeah,you made me realise how inferior my knowledge is after reading your post.

What a piece of fcking bulshit written like a speech..

Regarding religion....i can give you a nice lesson on your religion but forget it who gives a damn about what a Pakistani thinks when the whole fcking world knows what you are..

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## kbd-raaf

Umair Nawaz said:


> Kiddo Kiddo Those were just 9 men and were poorly trained civilians thats all.
> 
> None of Professional armed forces trained them.
> 
> Get yr facts right or provide authentic proof.



Yes, that's about right. Take pride in your ignorance.

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## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> Sure atleast its still better then a Mandir with Indian Special Forces of Swamis and Pundits



We have seen the wonders Madrasas have made on your country. Keep it up. Madrasas have done something what an enemy army can not do.

And yes we have seen the performance of your commandos in the fight against the terrorist. We also see your ISI, your military and your police performance . All we show in last one week.

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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> Ok 19 years old kiddo........what exactly they have done to be best?
> 
> 72 hrs to take down some 9 rag tag civilian militants??
> 
> And visit Pakistan Army Multimedia Thread watch the Real Mean Men.....
> 
> Or maybe they r best just because they wear masks and SSG dont



72hours?? if you are mentioning is 26/11 then it is 59 hours. 5 things you must understood
1. mumbai is the largest city with ill equipped and poorly trained police forces. 
2. the attack was conducted by highly trained militants from pakistan, mumbai police with WW2 weapon cannot mach them.
3. marcos reach there without any intelligence of what is happening there, they faced these militants as a local gangsters.
4. to save people from these hotels were gusts are locked themself inside the hotel is time consuming.
5. the attack was not on a single place, it was simultaneous attack on multiple places, withe bomb attacks. make security forces total confusing and they have no idea what is happening there.

these are the main reason why security forces take 59H in that operation.

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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> U thick Headed uneducated Hindus..... Yr knowledge abt Military is even more uglier then u look.
> 
> 1)In Siachin u had invaded a barren land which was not a military zone not even a man or human civilization lives there. The G-B is in Control of Northern Light Infantry which got commissioned in Pak army as late as 1989 and this incident happened in 84. Its was NLI that was deployed there not regular army men let alone SSG.
> 
> 2)But still in 99 when these just 4,500 men took off 30,000 mammoth and better equipped in Armed Forces  We all know what was happened they reached up to Tiger Hill. And thanks to Israeli SFs u were able to turn the tide later in war(according to Israeli Envoy's Interview to a dehli based magazine in 2010). So yr kiddish SFs and regular infantrymen still failed against our Light infantry Battalions let alone SSG.
> 
> 3)LOL when did that happened in yr dreams last night??
> 
> 4)  This is not IOK where indian army runs with both hands on its back and then kidnap Children and civilians to save themselves and bury them in Mass Graves.....
> 
> These r the real men we r talking about. Just Read about our Operations against terrorism like Swat, Bajour, South Waziristan, Operation tiran Valley etc etc and u will know why i call them THE MEN OF STEEL.
> 
> Now run away and educate yourself.
> 
> your military knowledge is one of the worse i know.
> read about Bana Singh
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bana_Singh
> 
> 
> its not available.



your military knowledge is one of the worse i know.
read about Bana Singh 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bana_Singh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siachen_conflict
in Siachen conflict india got intelligence that pakistan is going to take Siachen so indian forces outsmart pakistan and take Siachen. there was no israeli forces in this conflict. 

 i challenge you can you provide any successful operation of ssg against india?

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## SRP

Marcos on board INS VIraat on the coast of Mumbai

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Lets not be blinded by our patriortism.What is wrong needs to be pointed out.
> 
> This is a shitty CQB drill for a SF unit.



here the para commando's QCB looks impressive













first two video shows an impressive QCB

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@Umair Nawaz @mafiya the guys you quoted challenged me tht their SFs were somehow better than ours.. and guess what happened..

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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Umair Nawaz @mafiya the guys you quoted challenged me tht their SFs were somehow better than ours.. and guess what happened..




all we said is our SF is employed mainly as super infantry, not less trained.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> all we said is our SF is employed mainly as super infantry, not less trained.



Sure man...


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## Bratva

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure man...



So basically what they trying to say, since MARCOS have strict training regime so they are superior to our Special forces. It happens only in Soviet india, they gauge SF superiority not on how successful Ops they conducted against enemies but on how much they look bad ***..

Such fan boys should see, Serbian special forces thread



Umair Nawaz said:


> U thick Headed uneducated Hindus..... Yr knowledge abt Military is even more uglier then u look.
> 
> 1)In Siachin u had invaded a barren land which was not a military zone not even a man or human civilization lives there. The G-B is in Control of Northern Light Infantry which got commissioned in Pak army as late as 1989 and this incident happened in 84. Its was NLI that was deployed there not regular army men let alone SSG.
> 
> 2)But still in 99 when these just 4,500 men took off 30,000 mammoth and better equipped in Armed Forces  We all know what was happened they reached up to Tiger Hill. And thanks to Israeli SFs u were able to turn the tide later in war(according to Israeli Envoy's Interview to a dehli based magazine in 2010). So yr kiddish SFs and regular infantrymen still failed against our Light infantry Battalions let alone SSG.
> 
> 3)LOL when did that happened in yr dreams last night??
> 
> 4)  This is not IOK where indian army runs with both hands on its back and then kidnap Children and civilians to save themselves and bury them in Mass Graves.....
> 
> These r the real men we r talking about. Just Read about our Operations against terrorism like Swat, Bajour, South Waziristan, Operation tiran Valley etc etc and u will know why i call them THE MEN OF STEEL.
> 
> Now run away and educate yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> its not available.




Video is on youtube as well.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

mafiya said:


> So basically what they trying to say, since MARCOS have strict training regime so they are superior to our Special forces. It happens only in Soviet india, they gauge SF superiority not on how successful Ops they conducted against enemies but on how much they look bad ***..
> 
> Such fan boys should see, Serbian special forces thread



They even failed on tht part.. i opened a thread and u can guess what happened..


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## Bratva

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They even failed on tht part.. i opened a thread and u can guess what happened..



Fire, fire everywhere


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @Umair Nawaz @mafiya the guys you quoted challenged me tht their SFs were somehow better than ours.. and guess what happened..



What happened...you opened a new thread and the new thread was a waste of time and bandwidth...Dont claim false victory.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure man...





mafiya said:


> So basically what they trying to say, since MARCOS have strict training regime so they are superior to our Special forces. It happens only in Soviet india, they gauge SF superiority not on how successful Ops they conducted against enemies but on how much they look bad ***..
> 
> Such fan boys should see, Serbian special forces thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video is on youtube as well.





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They even failed on tht part.. i opened a thread and u can guess what happened..





mafiya said:


> Fire, fire everywhere




Stop all the nonsense..Like @special has said and i have previously said many times...Show us the link to an operation where the SSG were successful against Indian SF and we will show you how indian regular soldiers defeated your SSG many times

All you can do is talk talk talk...like your SSG..all talk no substance...

And plz..we dont need comparison from a SF whose operators surrender in front of Taliban.

Our SF prefer to die than to surrender.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What happened...you opened a new thread and the new thread was a waste of time and bandwidth...Dont claim false victory.



Sure tell us what happened ... in simple words how are ur SFs better equiped etc? tavors (just bcoz they are "israeli") dnt exactly make ur forces "superior" do they? 









> Stop all the nonsense..Like @special has said and i have previously said many times...Show us the link to an operation where the SSG were successful against Indian SF and we will show you how indian regular soldiers defeated your SSG many times


 @Oscar and @nuclearpak educate him


> *And plz..we dont need comparison from a SF whose operators surrender in front of Taliban.
> *
> Our SF prefer to die than to surrender.



*For goodness sakes dnt pull bs facts out of your rear.*


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## Bratva

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What happened...you opened a new thread and the new thread was a waste of time and bandwidth...Dont claim false victory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop all the nonsense..Like @special has said and i have previously said many times...Show us the link to an operation where the SSG were successful against Indian SF and we will show you how indian regular soldiers defeated your SSG many times
> 
> All you can do is talk talk talk...like your SSG..all talk no substance...
> 
> *And plz..we dont need comparison from a SF whose operators surrender in front of Taliban.*
> 
> Our SF prefer to die than to surrender.



BS spouting from behind as usual I guess.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *For goodness sakes dnt pull bs facts out of your rear.*




LOL..Check out this video.

Guys,check this out...Live surrender for you.








mafiya said:


> BS spouting from behind as usual I guess.



Oh poor baby...did i hurt your feelings...How about we discuss some facts here...







This pic is of surrendered SSG operators being marched by Indian civilians in 1965

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Captain Nazam Riaz of the SSG and 3 operators had surrendered to taliban.When they came to know that taliban were gonna behead them they attacked and killed a few talibs.This incident is what i was talking about.

No disrespect to their sacrifice..may they rest in peace.

Incident of May 2009


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## chauvunist

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure tell us what happened ... in simple words how are ur SFs better equiped etc? tavors (just bcoz they are "israeli") dnt exactly make ur forces "superior" do they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Oscar and @nuclearpak educate him
> 
> 
> *For goodness sakes dnt pull bs facts out of your rear.*




Did you see the CQB footage of their SF's in the Taj Hotel,That was disastrous...Even our Elite police force could have done better than those guys...No wonder why they took more than 72 hours to clear it that too when some Israeli and South Africans commondo's came to their aid...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> LOL..Check out this video.
> 
> Guys,check this out...Live surrender for you.



*Do they look like SSG to you?* this units officers incharge were court martialed.

Akal na howay tao maujan hi maujan...


Here is something from IOK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTb3cOBEIBo




> Oh poor baby...did i hurt your feelings...How about we discuss some facts here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This pic is of surrendered SSG operators being marched by Indian civilians in 1965




Here:
*
In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.*
In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.
On a sultry night in September 1965, a convoy of heavy trailers transporting Indian tanks was moving on a road in Indian Kashmir when it suddenly came under rocket and machine gun fire. A dozen tanks exploded and burst into flames.
In early December 1971, shortly after midnight, a column of Indian infantry was moving towards the front to reinforce a position that was under attack.
Suddenly, the silence of the night was broken as sweeping machine gun fire came in from the flanks. Within minutes of the attack, the entire column had perished.
In all three cases the phantom soldiers who conducted these attacks were the chosen ones of the Pakistan Army &#8212; commandos of the Special Services Group (SSG).
They struck as if out of nowhere and then disappeared into the darkness like ghosts. Raised in 1956 by Major General Aboobaker Osman Mitha with the mandate of specialising in asymmetrical warfare, the SSG has since gone from brigade to division strength, and now has about 3,000 active members.
Until the late sixties, the SSG had maintained a low profile, as befits a force that relies on stealth and secrecy. But when it was decided to raise its profile by sending a contingent to participate in the Republic Day parade in Rawalpindi, few within the SSG opposed it.
The few who did dissent were overruled in any case. Eventually a compromise was reached and when the actual event took place, the SSG was seen wearing their signature maroon berets and running at a steady pace while chanting &#8216;Ali, Ali&#8217; rhythmically.
By contrast, the other army contingents marched instead of running. And so it remained until the parade itself was suspended indefinitely for security reasons.
Skilled in the use of weapons, the SSG are trained to handle machine guns, sub-machine guns and pistols as if these were extensions of their bodies.
They are trained to fire from the hip with speed and accuracy, even when on the move. Experts in unarmed combat, they are deadly even with no weapons other than their hands and feet.
Given their training in unconventional warfare, the SSG also learn how to guard against its use by the enemy. As such, they are the unit of choice when it comes to both guerrilla and anti-guerrilla operations.
But of all the varied operations the SSG are called on to conduct, the most demanding are those that are carried out deep behind enemy lines &#8212; cut off from supplies, support or even an escape route.
Such operations require the highest state of physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness, and the ability to remain cool and motivated far beyond the bounds of conventional human endurance.
Selection for service with the SSG is, therefore, tough. Volunteers from all over the army apply but two-thirds are rejected during the initial selection phase, and one-third of the selected fall out during the training phase due to lack of physical and mental resilience displayed during the training.
Trainees have to undergo forced marches in which they have to cross 36 miles of rugged terrain in nine hours while wearing full combat loads.
Typical exercises involve round-the-clock movement for five days and nights without sleep, while carrying only two days worth of food and water.
Once that runs out, they must live off the land and the few villages in the area are kept under surveillance by the trainers.
If captured, they are thrown into the dungeons of Attock Fort and subjected to a gruelling process of interrogation. Among those who break down during the five-day exercise, the common refrain is &#8220;SSG dozakh hai&#8221; (SSG is hell).
Those who finally make it, earn the distinction of wearing the maroon beret and the coveted SSG badge on their chest. These men are too precious to be wasted in the activities of conventional soldiers, yet even those who should know better continue to misuse them for guard duties and personal security functions.
Occasionally SSG troops tend to misuse their skills as well, which is exactly what happened when one of the SSG units was due to be inspected by a GHQ team.
There was a growing sense of anxiety in the unit as many of their jeeps had become unserviceable for want of spare parts which were not forthcoming. Faced with this problem, they solved it in true SSG style. A night before the inspection, a few men stealthily penetrated the motor park of an artillery unit some 20 kilometres away, and went about removing the required parts from the jeeps parked there. Having completed their job quickly and in silence, they returned to base and used the stolen parts in their own jeeps. Lo and behold, when inspection time came around, the unserviceable jeeps were up and running.
The following morning, when the commanding officer of the artillery unit learned that his jeeps had been mysteriously cannibalised, he nearly collapsed and had to undergo overnight hospitalisation.
SSG commandos are trained &#8212; in the words of Hannibal &#8212; to &#8220;find a way or make one&#8221;. They had done just that, but GHQ was not amused to say the least.
Whether the target is automobile parts or an enemy position, an SSG operation is typically conducted in five phases: planning, preparation, infiltration, attack, and exfiltration.
Of course, while it is also a truism that &#8220;no plan survives contact with the enemy,&#8221; the single greatest factor in the success of an SSG operation is the achievement of surprise.
When the plan is not based on precise and accurate intelligence the element of surprise is compromised, as happened to the SSG operations in September 1965 against the Indian airbases at Pathankot, Adampur and Halwara. Hastily planned and based on outdated intelligence and maps, these operations all ended in disaster.
The topographical changes that had taken place in the area of operations were missing from the maps.
The result was that most of the commandos landed in settlements that were not supposed to be there. As a consequence, within minutes of their landing, the alarm was raised. With the element of surprise lost, the odds were now stacked against them.
The next 48 hours saw them fighting running battles with their pursuers until their ammunition ran out. The cream of the army had been sacrificed in a needless operation against targets that were subsequently taken out by the PAF many times over.
SSG teams infiltrate behind enemy lines either by land, air or sea. Insertion by land is hazardous and time-consuming as it involves crossing the frontlines, whereas the air option, in which the preferred means is by helicopter, is the least hazardous and quickest.
But when helicopter insertion is precluded, freefall parachutes are used to make either HALO (high altitude, low opening) or HAHO (high altitude, high opening) jumps. HALO jumps are made inside the enemy territory, with the parachute being opened low, while HAHO jumps are made inside one&#8217;s own territory close to the border, with the parachute being opened high, and then manoeuvred towards the area designated for landing inside the enemy territory.
Having landed, whether by helicopter or parachute, they begin the final approach to the target, and once they get within striking distance, all hell is let loose. Minutes later, they are gone as suddenly as they had come, leaving behind a trail of blood and destruction.
Now begins exfiltration, the most challenging of all phases. The quickest way is extraction by helicopter. But the real challenge, especially in the plains, is when this option is ruled out.
It is now that their physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness and the ability to remain cool and motivated come under a severe test, as they struggle to get back across a broad expanse of hostile territory with the enemy in hot pursuit.
The SSG is a small force, but when employed correctly it can inflict damages on the enemy out of proportion to its size. When viewed against the fact that in most conceivable scenarios the Pakistan army will have to fight a future conventional war while outnumbered, the SSG becomes a critical force multiplier.
Therefore, it is best used in support of the army&#8217;s offensives to create a strategic impact on the enemy that can then be exploited by conventional forces.
In 1965, for example, if the army had followed up Operation Grand Slam with another offensive in the Ravi-Chenab corridor, the SSG could have been employed simultaneously against the Headworks on River Ravi and the crossings on River Beas ahead of the offensive.
These actions would have isolated the Ravi-Chenab corridor and delayed the induction of Indian army formations into the Ravi-Beas corridor, thus giving a decisive lead to Pakistani war directors in all the dimensions of operational strategy.
Having missed the opportunity to win the war in 1965, they should have atoned for it by doing the same in October 1971 when the build-up of Indian forces against East Pakistan was well underway. Unfortunately for Pakistan, they missed this opportunity too.
In the two wars directed by them, the performance of Pakistan&#8217;s military planners was marked by a lack of imagination and daring. Stated simply, they had the force but did not know how to use it. Fortunately for Pakistan, the Indian captains of war were equally, or even more, incompetent.
The bane of any SSG operation is faulty intelligence and a lack of effective follow-up by regular troops. An example of the latter can be found in the frozen wastes of Siachen.
The Indian Army built up a large force to defend the 80 kilometre-long Saltoro Range ridgeline (the gateway to Siachen Glacier), and since then, the Pakistanis have sought to gain a foothold on the ridge line, with the Indians successfully denying it.
In early April 1987, after several attempts had failed, a small force consisting of about a dozen SSG commandos, using ropes and ladders, went up a vertical cliff and occupied a position at over 21,000 ft that dominated the Indian positions at Bilafond La. They named it Quaid post.
The Indian Army made several attempts to evict the commandos but each time they were repulsed with heavy casualties.
However, on June 25, 1987, they succeeded in taking the post as the commandos had run out of ammunition and could not be resupplied for the base supporting them had come under fire. With the only foothold on the ridgeline lost, the Pakistan Army launched a major attack in September to get to Bilafond La, but was repulsed.
Operation Silence, the SSG operation against the Jamia Hafsa/Lal Masjid complex was ultimately a victim of poor intelligence, quite unlike Operation Nimrod &#8212; the British SAS (Special Air Service) operation in May 1980 against six terrorists who had seized the Iranian embassy in London and taken 26 people hostage.
The SAS had complete information about the terrorists, hostages and the 50-room, six-storied embassy, and had even carried out rehearsals on full size replicas. The result was that the operation involving 50 SAS troops took only 17 minutes to eliminate the terrorists and rescue the hostages.
In glaring contrast, Operation Silence was launched on what was, at best, sketchy information about the number of people holed up inside the complex. Even today a controversy is raging about the number of people present in the complex at the time of the operation.
How many were there and how many among them were hostages? If there were hostages, were they lodged separately, and if so, where? How many militants were armed and what weapons did they have? Where were the militants deployed?
These questions must have been raised by the SSG, but were clearly left unanswered. The fact that none inside the complex survived the attack, clearly shows that the SSG was given to understand that everyone inside was armed and dangerous.
That those inside were able to resist the SSG for so long and inflict casualties on them, is a testimony to their preparedness and grit, and the fact that the SSG cleared the complex despite fighting blind is a reflection on its ability to deliver even in adverse conditions.
But the SSG&#8217;s Zarrar company, which had carried out the attack, would soon face retaliation of a most unexpected nature.
The militants contrived a way to hit the company at its base in Tarbela &#8212; most likely using the help of their sympathisers in the base itself.
These sympathisers acquired C4 plastic explosive from the company&#8217;s armoury, placed it in the mess, and detonated it by remote control, killing 22 soldiers.
As a consequence, military installations across the country became vulnerable, as shown by the attacks on GHQ, and the Mehran and Kamra bases among others.
The vulnerability is very real, as is the sense of fear and uncertainty in the minds of the commanders. But here too, the special skills of the SSG can be put to good use.
After the 1965 war, Air Marshal Nur Khan had ordered upgrades in the security of all PAF bases and raised units of Ground Combateers (GCs) for this purpose.
To test their effectiveness he employed the SSG to carry out mock attacks against the facilities. Valuable lessons were learnt by the PAF, which were implemented and then retested, with better results for the PAF.
Given the vulnerability of military installations across the country, the Service Chiefs, who must have developed plans for the security of their installations, should also ask the SSG to test the efficacy of their plans. The results would shock them.
The 2009 army operations in Swat and South Waziristan succeeded in ending the insurgencies there, but were unable to prevent them from escaping to other places in the region.
After successfully relocating, these militants have managed to continue to not only stage hit-and-run attacks like the one on Malala and her friends, but also to fight pitched battles like in Bajaur last month.
How long it will take for the army to crush the insurgency that has enveloped the country and threatens to undermine its foundation, nobody can surmise, least of all the army.
But what one can say with certainty is that the war against the insurgency in the tribal areas will become a war without end, unless the requisite amount of force is employed.
This must be in line with a strategy that seeks to isolate the theatre of operations prior to the offensive in order to prevent the enemy from ingressing into it or escaping from it.
Again, this cannot be done without a holistic strategy that includes the judicious use of the SSG.
In Operation Rah-e-Raast in Swat, the notably successful action by the SSG was its surprise assault on the Peochar heights, a dominating position occupied by the insurgents.
Descending from helicopters, the commandos quickly secured the heights, then attacked downhill, forcing the insurgents to descend into the waiting arms of the infantry in the valley. This ultimately led them to flee and live to fight another day.
In the two Waziristans, the SSG&#8217;s employment started in 2002, leading up to Operation Rah-e-Nijaat in 2009. During this period they conducted several operations in conjunction with elements of 12 Corps against foreign fighters and their local partners, who, in almost all cases, managed to get away.
This failing, like so many others, resulted from inaccurate intelligence and the loss of surprise caused by the accompanying infantry.
During Rah-e-Nijaat, the SSG was mostly employed in support of the infantry columns that advanced from three directions to secure the &#8216;critical space&#8217; of the insurgents in the triangle formed by Makeen-Ladha-Sararogha.
The well advertised Rah-e-Nijaat and the conventional strategy adopted for it compromised the key element of surprise, thus giving enough time to the insurgents to escape to other places in the region.
Had the SSG been employed to open the campaign by seizing the heights dominating Makeen, Ladha and Sararogha in a surprise heliborne assault, the bulk of insurgents would have found it difficult to escape.
Special Forces are precision instruments. While surprise is their main weapon, their success also depends on the quality of intelligence, since their operational plans are based on it.
In a war against insurgency they are the only instrument of the army that can create fear and uncertainty in the minds of the insurgents, a situation that should repeatedly be exploited by the army to break the militants both mentally and physically.
There is no place for orthodoxy and inflexibility in war, least of all in this war. You adapt or you die.
*The author is a former member of the SSG
Published in The Express Tribune, Sunday Magazine, November 11th, 2012.


Another article on Ops Gibralter by the than head of SSG :

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gqE_KH53w59yNPmZA&sig2=wpFkvTFUNT1beArj_MPa5g

Reactions: Like Like:
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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

chauvunist said:


> Did you see the CQB footage of their SF's in the Taj Hotel,That was disastrous...Even our Elite police force could have done better than those guys...No wonder why they took more than 72 hours to clear it that too when some Israeli and South Africans commondo's came to their aid...



That video was of Marcos not NSG.NSG was the one who did a major part of the operation.

For rest of the SSG V Indian SF comparison you can read my previous 2 posts.


By the way i believe,a half trained brave soldier is better than a fully trained one but who doesnt have the courage to fight.

@DESERT FIGHTER

Hahaha..My 2 posts and you have changed you from being agressive to being defensive.

I say again...

Show me the link of a successful Pakistani SF operation against Indian SF and i will show you the link for so many defeats the SSG has had against Indian REGULARS.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That video was of Marcos not NSG.NSG was the one who did a major part of the operation.
> 
> For rest of the SSG V Indian SF comparison you can read my previous 2 posts.
> 
> 
> By the way i believe,a half trained brave soldier is better than a fully trained one but who doesnt have the courage to fight.
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Hahaha..My 2 posts and you have changed from being agressive to being defensive.
> 
> I say again...
> 
> Show me the link of a successful Pakistani SF operation against Indian SF and i will show you the link for so many defeats the SSG has had against Indian REGULARS.



Read by post above fanboy.

and woah! lol


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Read by post above fanboy.
> 
> and woah! lol



Says someone uttering bullshit...Where is the fcking link.All your posts are nonsense.And fanboy is sonmeone who talks like you without any evidence.I have already given you enough links.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Says someone uttering bullshit...Where is the fcking link.All your posts are nonsense.And fanboy is sonmeone who talks like you without any evidence.I have already given you enough links.



Your frustration is evident from ur pathetic rant.. as for fanboy.. ur posts with "woah n wow" etc suggest tht..

P.S: I know my posts hurt ur ego ..


----------



## chauvunist

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Captain Nazam Riaz of the SSG and 3 operators had surrendered to taliban.When they came to know that taliban were gonna behead them they attacked and killed a few talibs.This incident is what i was talking about.
> 
> No disrespect to their sacrifice..may they rest in peace.
> 
> Incident of May 2009



DO you even know about Incident or just trying the point scoring...Let me educate you about the Incident...This Incident happened when peace deal was struck with TTP,These personnel went to enjoy the beautiful sceneries of Swat and were obviously not on the Duty,Unfortunately all of a sudden they were surrounded by Dozens of terrorists,they weren't expecting anything like that due to Peace deal with TTP...Now there started negotiations but TTP rejected negotiation and decided to Eliminate the personnel,After realizing the failure of negotiations and intentions of TTP,they resisted the TTP goons with their hands tied and in the process sent many terrorists to Hell and themselves embraced martyrdom....


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Your frustration is evident from ur pathetic rant.. as for fanboy.. ur posts with "woah n wow" etc suggest tht..
> 
> P.S: I know my posts hurt ur ego ..



Oh i am living life king size...i am doing well in life and not a bit frustrated.

frustrated are those whose brave SF soldiers surrender in front of the enemy.



chauvunist said:


> DO you even know about Incident or just trying the point scoring...Let me educate you about the Incident...This Incident happened when peace deal was struck with TTP,These personnel went to enjoy the beautiful sceneries of Swat and were obviously not on the Duty,Unfortunately all of a sudden they were surrounded by Dozens of terrorists,they weren't expecting anything like that due to Peace deal with TTP...Now there started negotiations but TTP rejected negotiation and decided to Eliminate the personnel,After realizing the failure of negotiations and intentions of TTP,they resisted the TTP goons with their hands tied and in the process sent many terrorists to Hell and themselves embraced martyrdom....



Why didnt the SF carry their weapons?

Does your Army roam around without weapons in field area?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Oh i am living life king size...i am doing well in life and not a bit frustrated.



Who gives a crap about your life man? lol .. 



> frustrated are those whose brave SF soldiers surrender in front of the enemy.



I loved ur video.. as for op gibraltor i posted a link .. so instead of ranting read it and dnt make fake claims


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Who gives a crap about your life man? lol ..
> 
> 
> 
> I loved ur video.. as for op gibraltor i posted a link .. so instead of ranting read it and dnt make fake claims



People like you cannot hurt my ego coz my ego is too damn high and too damn rich to be hurt be a Tom Dick Harry having a early life crisis.


----------



## chauvunist

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Why didnt the SF carry their weapons?
> 
> Does your Army roam around without weapons in field area?



Like i stated in the above,there was a peace deal with TTP during that period and they were just roaming in the area to enjoy and were not on the Duty...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

chauvunist said:


> Like i stated in the above,there was a peace deal with TTP during that period and they were just roaming in the area to enjoy and were not on the Duty...



Bhai maray...I dont know about Pakistan but in India and other countries SF operators dont roam around without a weapon in field areas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## special

chauvunist said:


> Did you see the CQB footage of their SF's in the Taj Hotel,That was disastrous...Even our Elite police force could have done better than those guys...No wonder why they took more than 72 hours to clear it that too when some Israeli and South Africans commondo's came to their aid...



are you the one who transport israeli commandos and SA commandos to taj hotel? NSG has the duty of urban QCB. marcos are not for hostage rescue in an urban environment like taj. you talk about QCB where was your elite police when 10 terrorists attack their HQ? in india terrorists are attacking civilian building, in pakistan they attack military HQs. rescue all tourists from a large hotel like taj and nariman house is a mammoth task and will take time.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> People like you cannot hurt my ego coz my ego is too damn high and too damn rich to be hurt be a Tom Dick Harry having a early life crisis.



Dnt talk abt being rich man.. there is a saying "Empty vessels make more noise"... as for ur "ego" it seem fragile 



P.S: Any tom dick n harry can claim to be bill gates on internet..



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bhai maray...I dont know about Pakistan but in India and other countries SF operators dont roam around without a weapon in field areas.



The video u posted are not "Special Forces"..


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *Do they look like SSG to you?* this units officers incharge were court martialed.
> 
> Akal na howay tao maujan hi maujan...
> 
> 
> Here is something from IOK:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTb3cOBEIBo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here:
> *
> In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.*
> In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.In the first week of August 1965, in the early hours of the morning, Indian soldiers guarding a vital bridge in Indian Kashmir came under sudden attack from close quarters. Five minutes later, they and the bridge they were guarding were no more.
> On a sultry night in September 1965, a convoy of heavy trailers transporting Indian tanks was moving on a road in Indian Kashmir when it suddenly came under rocket and machine gun fire. A dozen tanks exploded and burst into flames.
> In early December 1971, shortly after midnight, a column of Indian infantry was moving towards the front to reinforce a position that was under attack.
> Suddenly, the silence of the night was broken as sweeping machine gun fire came in from the flanks. Within minutes of the attack, the entire column had perished.
> In all three cases the phantom soldiers who conducted these attacks were the chosen ones of the Pakistan Army &#8212; commandos of the Special Services Group (SSG).
> They struck as if out of nowhere and then disappeared into the darkness like ghosts. Raised in 1956 by Major General Aboobaker Osman Mitha with the mandate of specialising in asymmetrical warfare, the SSG has since gone from brigade to division strength, and now has about 3,000 active members.
> Until the late sixties, the SSG had maintained a low profile, as befits a force that relies on stealth and secrecy. But when it was decided to raise its profile by sending a contingent to participate in the Republic Day parade in Rawalpindi, few within the SSG opposed it.
> The few who did dissent were overruled in any case. Eventually a compromise was reached and when the actual event took place, the SSG was seen wearing their signature maroon berets and running at a steady pace while chanting &#8216;Ali, Ali&#8217; rhythmically.
> By contrast, the other army contingents marched instead of running. And so it remained until the parade itself was suspended indefinitely for security reasons.
> Skilled in the use of weapons, the SSG are trained to handle machine guns, sub-machine guns and pistols as if these were extensions of their bodies.
> They are trained to fire from the hip with speed and accuracy, even when on the move. Experts in unarmed combat, they are deadly even with no weapons other than their hands and feet.
> Given their training in unconventional warfare, the SSG also learn how to guard against its use by the enemy. As such, they are the unit of choice when it comes to both guerrilla and anti-guerrilla operations.
> But of all the varied operations the SSG are called on to conduct, the most demanding are those that are carried out deep behind enemy lines &#8212; cut off from supplies, support or even an escape route.
> Such operations require the highest state of physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness, and the ability to remain cool and motivated far beyond the bounds of conventional human endurance.
> Selection for service with the SSG is, therefore, tough. Volunteers from all over the army apply but two-thirds are rejected during the initial selection phase, and one-third of the selected fall out during the training phase due to lack of physical and mental resilience displayed during the training.
> Trainees have to undergo forced marches in which they have to cross 36 miles of rugged terrain in nine hours while wearing full combat loads.
> Typical exercises involve round-the-clock movement for five days and nights without sleep, while carrying only two days worth of food and water.
> Once that runs out, they must live off the land and the few villages in the area are kept under surveillance by the trainers.
> If captured, they are thrown into the dungeons of Attock Fort and subjected to a gruelling process of interrogation. Among those who break down during the five-day exercise, the common refrain is &#8220;SSG dozakh hai&#8221; (SSG is hell).
> Those who finally make it, earn the distinction of wearing the maroon beret and the coveted SSG badge on their chest. These men are too precious to be wasted in the activities of conventional soldiers, yet even those who should know better continue to misuse them for guard duties and personal security functions.
> Occasionally SSG troops tend to misuse their skills as well, which is exactly what happened when one of the SSG units was due to be inspected by a GHQ team.
> There was a growing sense of anxiety in the unit as many of their jeeps had become unserviceable for want of spare parts which were not forthcoming. Faced with this problem, they solved it in true SSG style. A night before the inspection, a few men stealthily penetrated the motor park of an artillery unit some 20 kilometres away, and went about removing the required parts from the jeeps parked there. Having completed their job quickly and in silence, they returned to base and used the stolen parts in their own jeeps. Lo and behold, when inspection time came around, the unserviceable jeeps were up and running.
> The following morning, when the commanding officer of the artillery unit learned that his jeeps had been mysteriously cannibalised, he nearly collapsed and had to undergo overnight hospitalisation.
> SSG commandos are trained &#8212; in the words of Hannibal &#8212; to &#8220;find a way or make one&#8221;. They had done just that, but GHQ was not amused to say the least.
> Whether the target is automobile parts or an enemy position, an SSG operation is typically conducted in five phases: planning, preparation, infiltration, attack, and exfiltration.
> Of course, while it is also a truism that &#8220;no plan survives contact with the enemy,&#8221; the single greatest factor in the success of an SSG operation is the achievement of surprise.
> When the plan is not based on precise and accurate intelligence the element of surprise is compromised, as happened to the SSG operations in September 1965 against the Indian airbases at Pathankot, Adampur and Halwara. Hastily planned and based on outdated intelligence and maps, these operations all ended in disaster.
> The topographical changes that had taken place in the area of operations were missing from the maps.
> The result was that most of the commandos landed in settlements that were not supposed to be there. As a consequence, within minutes of their landing, the alarm was raised. With the element of surprise lost, the odds were now stacked against them.
> The next 48 hours saw them fighting running battles with their pursuers until their ammunition ran out. The cream of the army had been sacrificed in a needless operation against targets that were subsequently taken out by the PAF many times over.
> SSG teams infiltrate behind enemy lines either by land, air or sea. Insertion by land is hazardous and time-consuming as it involves crossing the frontlines, whereas the air option, in which the preferred means is by helicopter, is the least hazardous and quickest.
> But when helicopter insertion is precluded, freefall parachutes are used to make either HALO (high altitude, low opening) or HAHO (high altitude, high opening) jumps. HALO jumps are made inside the enemy territory, with the parachute being opened low, while HAHO jumps are made inside one&#8217;s own territory close to the border, with the parachute being opened high, and then manoeuvred towards the area designated for landing inside the enemy territory.
> Having landed, whether by helicopter or parachute, they begin the final approach to the target, and once they get within striking distance, all hell is let loose. Minutes later, they are gone as suddenly as they had come, leaving behind a trail of blood and destruction.
> Now begins exfiltration, the most challenging of all phases. The quickest way is extraction by helicopter. But the real challenge, especially in the plains, is when this option is ruled out.
> It is now that their physical and mental toughness, resourcefulness and the ability to remain cool and motivated come under a severe test, as they struggle to get back across a broad expanse of hostile territory with the enemy in hot pursuit.
> The SSG is a small force, but when employed correctly it can inflict damages on the enemy out of proportion to its size. When viewed against the fact that in most conceivable scenarios the Pakistan army will have to fight a future conventional war while outnumbered, the SSG becomes a critical force multiplier.
> Therefore, it is best used in support of the army&#8217;s offensives to create a strategic impact on the enemy that can then be exploited by conventional forces.
> In 1965, for example, if the army had followed up Operation Grand Slam with another offensive in the Ravi-Chenab corridor, the SSG could have been employed simultaneously against the Headworks on River Ravi and the crossings on River Beas ahead of the offensive.
> These actions would have isolated the Ravi-Chenab corridor and delayed the induction of Indian army formations into the Ravi-Beas corridor, thus giving a decisive lead to Pakistani war directors in all the dimensions of operational strategy.
> Having missed the opportunity to win the war in 1965, they should have atoned for it by doing the same in October 1971 when the build-up of Indian forces against East Pakistan was well underway. Unfortunately for Pakistan, they missed this opportunity too.
> In the two wars directed by them, the performance of Pakistan&#8217;s military planners was marked by a lack of imagination and daring. Stated simply, they had the force but did not know how to use it. Fortunately for Pakistan, the Indian captains of war were equally, or even more, incompetent.
> The bane of any SSG operation is faulty intelligence and a lack of effective follow-up by regular troops. An example of the latter can be found in the frozen wastes of Siachen.
> The Indian Army built up a large force to defend the 80 kilometre-long Saltoro Range ridgeline (the gateway to Siachen Glacier), and since then, the Pakistanis have sought to gain a foothold on the ridge line, with the Indians successfully denying it.
> In early April 1987, after several attempts had failed, a small force consisting of about a dozen SSG commandos, using ropes and ladders, went up a vertical cliff and occupied a position at over 21,000 ft that dominated the Indian positions at Bilafond La. They named it Quaid post.
> The Indian Army made several attempts to evict the commandos but each time they were repulsed with heavy casualties.
> However, on June 25, 1987, they succeeded in taking the post as the commandos had run out of ammunition and could not be resupplied for the base supporting them had come under fire. With the only foothold on the ridgeline lost, the Pakistan Army launched a major attack in September to get to Bilafond La, but was repulsed.
> Operation Silence, the SSG operation against the Jamia Hafsa/Lal Masjid complex was ultimately a victim of poor intelligence, quite unlike Operation Nimrod &#8212; the British SAS (Special Air Service) operation in May 1980 against six terrorists who had seized the Iranian embassy in London and taken 26 people hostage.
> The SAS had complete information about the terrorists, hostages and the 50-room, six-storied embassy, and had even carried out rehearsals on full size replicas. The result was that the operation involving 50 SAS troops took only 17 minutes to eliminate the terrorists and rescue the hostages.
> In glaring contrast, Operation Silence was launched on what was, at best, sketchy information about the number of people holed up inside the complex. Even today a controversy is raging about the number of people present in the complex at the time of the operation.
> How many were there and how many among them were hostages? If there were hostages, were they lodged separately, and if so, where? How many militants were armed and what weapons did they have? Where were the militants deployed?
> These questions must have been raised by the SSG, but were clearly left unanswered. The fact that none inside the complex survived the attack, clearly shows that the SSG was given to understand that everyone inside was armed and dangerous.
> That those inside were able to resist the SSG for so long and inflict casualties on them, is a testimony to their preparedness and grit, and the fact that the SSG cleared the complex despite fighting blind is a reflection on its ability to deliver even in adverse conditions.
> But the SSG&#8217;s Zarrar company, which had carried out the attack, would soon face retaliation of a most unexpected nature.
> The militants contrived a way to hit the company at its base in Tarbela &#8212; most likely using the help of their sympathisers in the base itself.
> These sympathisers acquired C4 plastic explosive from the company&#8217;s armoury, placed it in the mess, and detonated it by remote control, killing 22 soldiers.
> As a consequence, military installations across the country became vulnerable, as shown by the attacks on GHQ, and the Mehran and Kamra bases among others.
> The vulnerability is very real, as is the sense of fear and uncertainty in the minds of the commanders. But here too, the special skills of the SSG can be put to good use.
> After the 1965 war, Air Marshal Nur Khan had ordered upgrades in the security of all PAF bases and raised units of Ground Combateers (GCs) for this purpose.
> To test their effectiveness he employed the SSG to carry out mock attacks against the facilities. Valuable lessons were learnt by the PAF, which were implemented and then retested, with better results for the PAF.
> Given the vulnerability of military installations across the country, the Service Chiefs, who must have developed plans for the security of their installations, should also ask the SSG to test the efficacy of their plans. The results would shock them.
> The 2009 army operations in Swat and South Waziristan succeeded in ending the insurgencies there, but were unable to prevent them from escaping to other places in the region.
> After successfully relocating, these militants have managed to continue to not only stage hit-and-run attacks like the one on Malala and her friends, but also to fight pitched battles like in Bajaur last month.
> How long it will take for the army to crush the insurgency that has enveloped the country and threatens to undermine its foundation, nobody can surmise, least of all the army.
> But what one can say with certainty is that the war against the insurgency in the tribal areas will become a war without end, unless the requisite amount of force is employed.
> This must be in line with a strategy that seeks to isolate the theatre of operations prior to the offensive in order to prevent the enemy from ingressing into it or escaping from it.
> Again, this cannot be done without a holistic strategy that includes the judicious use of the SSG.
> In Operation Rah-e-Raast in Swat, the notably successful action by the SSG was its surprise assault on the Peochar heights, a dominating position occupied by the insurgents.
> Descending from helicopters, the commandos quickly secured the heights, then attacked downhill, forcing the insurgents to descend into the waiting arms of the infantry in the valley. This ultimately led them to flee and live to fight another day.
> In the two Waziristans, the SSG&#8217;s employment started in 2002, leading up to Operation Rah-e-Nijaat in 2009. During this period they conducted several operations in conjunction with elements of 12 Corps against foreign fighters and their local partners, who, in almost all cases, managed to get away.
> This failing, like so many others, resulted from inaccurate intelligence and the loss of surprise caused by the accompanying infantry.
> During Rah-e-Nijaat, the SSG was mostly employed in support of the infantry columns that advanced from three directions to secure the &#8216;critical space&#8217; of the insurgents in the triangle formed by Makeen-Ladha-Sararogha.
> The well advertised Rah-e-Nijaat and the conventional strategy adopted for it compromised the key element of surprise, thus giving enough time to the insurgents to escape to other places in the region.
> Had the SSG been employed to open the campaign by seizing the heights dominating Makeen, Ladha and Sararogha in a surprise heliborne assault, the bulk of insurgents would have found it difficult to escape.
> Special Forces are precision instruments. While surprise is their main weapon, their success also depends on the quality of intelligence, since their operational plans are based on it.
> In a war against insurgency they are the only instrument of the army that can create fear and uncertainty in the minds of the insurgents, a situation that should repeatedly be exploited by the army to break the militants both mentally and physically.
> There is no place for orthodoxy and inflexibility in war, least of all in this war. You adapt or you die.
> *The author is a former member of the SSG
> Published in The Express Tribune, Sunday Magazine, November 11th, 2012.
> 
> 
> Another article on Ops Gibralter by the than head of SSG :
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gqE_KH53w59yNPmZA&sig2=wpFkvTFUNT1beArj_MPa5g




WTF there is no credibility in his words. he was one of your army and never gonna admit that they failed their mission. sho some credible news link(not pakistani news channel which has no cridibility)



chauvunist said:


> Like i stated in the above,there was a peace deal with TTP during that period and they were just roaming in the area to enjoy and were not on the Duty...



then why ssg was there? are they were on picnic?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dnt talk abt rich man.. there is a saying "Empty vessels make more noise"...
> 
> 
> P.S: Any tom dick n harry can claim to be bill gates on internet..



Sure he can...and internet fanboys like you on the internet can claim anything whereas they dont have a single link to back up their claims.

We have a guy here who says..AK is better than a Tavor...RPG is better than a Shipon and Carl gustav...MP5 is better than M4...and SSG is better equipped than Indian SF.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> WTF there is no credibility in his words. he was one of your army and never gonna admit that they failed their mission. sho some credible news link(not pakistani news channel which has no cridibility)



Why dont you google these facts?lol ... and the guys are SSG vets from those wars... the other being the head of SSG in 65.. etc




> then why ssg was there? are they were on picnic?



Lol again do they look like SSG to you? coz they arent.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sure he can...and internet fanboys like you on the internet can claim anything whereas they dont have a single link to back up their claims.



Right .. u dnt have a single link to back up ur claims... from SSG equipment being inferior to ur "stories" frm indian sf in IOK..



> We have a guy here who says..AK is better than a Tavor...RPG is better than a Shipon and Carl gustav...MP5 is better than M4.



Either u are partially blind or just retarded.. the discussion was abt M-4 which ur frnd claimed was inferior to tavor (and yes i proved him wrong with links,facts etc),yes latest RPG is better than the heavy 2 manned crew for carl gustav due to various factors... also there was no arguement abt MP-5 vs M-4.. both of which are also in service with PA.

So here goes another of your rants into the dust bin... my supa rich internet indian pal.. 




> ..and SSG is better equipped than Indian SF.



And guess who lost?


----------



## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Why dont you google these facts?lol ... and the guys are SSG vets from those wars... the other being the head of SSG in 65.. etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol again do they look like SSG to you? coz they arent.




i am asking the same to you. in 1965 700 personnel of ssg came into indian and only 20 were manage to escape from indian soldiers and civilians.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> i am asking the same to you. in 1965 *700 personnel of ssg came into indian and only 20 were manage to escape from indian soldiers and civilians.*



Cool story man.. supa powa cool.


----------



## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Right .. u dnt have a single link to back up ur claims... from SSG equipment being inferior to ur "stories" frm indian sf in IOK..
> 
> 
> 
> Either u are partially blind or just retarded.. the discussion was abt M-4 which ur frnd claimed was inferior to tavor (and yes i proved him wrong with links,facts etc),yes latest RPG is better than the heavy 2 manned crew for carl gustav"... and there was no arguement abt MP-5 vs M-4.. both of which are also in service with PA.
> 
> So here goes another of your rants into the dust bin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess who lost?



Tavor is better than M4. tavor can even fire when it is in mud, water, or in dust, M4 cannot. india get m4 before ssg and they prefer to use tavor. only advantage of M4 is it is lighter than tavor. Israel is going to replace the M4 with Tavor.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Cool story man.. supa powa cool.



i know you are not gonna accept that. your media has no credibility. do you know what happened after the surrender in 1971? pakistani people burn press for publishing fake news, check online you can see the after effect of 1971 surrender in pakistan.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> Tavor is better than M4. tavor can even fire when it is in mud, water, or in dust, M4 cannot. india get m4 before ssg and they prefer to use tavor. only advantage of M4 is it is lighter than tavor. Israel is going to replace the M4 with Tavor.
> 
> 
> 
> i know you are not gonna accept that. your media has no credibility. do you know what happened after the surrender in 1971? pakistani people burn press for publishing fake news, check online you can see the after effect of 1971 surrender in pakistan.



Sure...


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Either u are partially blind or just retarded.. the discussion was abt M-4 which ur frnd claimed was inferior to tavor (and yes i proved him wrong with links,facts etc),yes latest RPG is better than the heavy 2 manned crew for carl gustav due to various factors... also there was no arguement abt MP-5 vs M-4.. both of which are also in service with PA.
> 
> So here goes another of your rants into the dust bin... my supa rich internet indian pal..



latest RPG is RPG 32 which is better than carl gustav. pakistan is using rpg 7 and rpg 29 which is coldwar stuff.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> latest RPG is RPG 32 which is better than carl gustav. pakistan is using rpg 7 and rpg 29 which is coldwar stuff



Try the latest RPG rounds their penetration power,their tactical advantages etc over heavy 2 man crewed carl gustav produced in the 1940s.


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Cool story man.. supa powa cool.



Operation Gibraltar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Try the latest RPG rounds their penetration power,their tactical advantages etc over heavy 2 man crewed carl gustav produced in the 1940s.



carl gustav used by indian force is much improved one and is made by DRDO with composite materials. check google.


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Try the latest RPG rounds their penetration power,their tactical advantages etc over heavy 2 man crewed carl gustav produced in the 1940s.



RPG are of different variants, pakistan uses outdated variants(rpg 7- standard issued and rpg 29-limited number) don't say that pakistan is using RPG 32, only middle east countries have it.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bana Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Read about this real man who kicked SSG *** in hand to hand combat..single handedly killed multiple SSG operators.
> 
> There was your link.



What a man you are claim to be from a military background and using the language of some "sarak chaap launda" ... for for bana ... thanks for ur BS... also no reference of him fighting SSG... anyhow try men like Lalak Jan or Sher Khan.. who forced ur regiments to retreat n inflicted heavy losses.. or even their graceful martyrdoms where he prefered to keep fightin n beating the indian CO with his weapon (which had ran out of ammo) in indian camp instead of surrendering.. 







> I wasnt talking about that discussion...And 2 man crew for Carl Gustav??..you mean including the loader..same goes for the RPG then.



Damn you are so knowledgeable ... RPG doesnt use a 2 man crew like carl gustav.. its weight is around 5-6 kgs.. and the ammo is carried in a backpack:

*Ruck Sack*







*Medical Kit*






*Ammo-Carrier RPG-7*






*Ammo-Carrier- 60MM Mortar*






*Pistol Holster*






*Military Hydration System*






*Water bottle holster*






*Tactical vest*








special said:


> Operation Gibraltar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Cool story.



> carl gustav used by indian force is much improved one and is made by DRDO with composite materials. check google.



Doesnt miraculously reduce the weight... it still weighs over 15+ kgs...

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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Doesnt miraculously reduce the weight... it still weighs over 15+ kgs...



it weights 8KG and mark-3 is used by us special forces. pakistan army also use this one it is the old variant 
Carl Gustav recoilless rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> it weights 8KG and mark-3 is used by us special forces. pakistan army also use this one it is the old variant
> Carl Gustav recoilless rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Do you know even the one used by NATO is like 13 kg?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Try the latest RPG rounds their penetration power,their tactical advantages etc over heavy 2 man crewed carl gustav produced in the 1940s.



Try shipon for weight.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> What a man you are claim to be from a military background and using the language of some "sarak chaap launda" ... for for bana ... thanks for ur BS... also no reference of him fighting SSG... anyhow try men like Lalak Jan or Sher Khan.. who forced ur regiments to retreat n inflicted heavy losses.. or even their graceful martyrdoms where he prefered to keep fightin n beating the indian CO with his weapon (which had ran out of ammo) in indian camp instead of surrendering..



Says who...says who about language.Says a guys who posts **** in every thread relating to India.My decency is limited to the ones who respect me and my nation.

Sher khan and lalak Jan were brave soldiers fighting for a lost cause...For us Indians shadat doesnt matter..the end result matters.


Regarding RPG..i was talking about the loader smart guy..who loads the weapon and not the one who carries it.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Try shipon for weight.



No thanks your stupidity is enough.


> Says who...says who about language.Says a guys who posts **** in every thread relating to India.My decency is limited to the ones who respect me and my nation.



Id like to see where i disrespected ur soldiers? apart from the criminals.



> Sher khan and lalak Jan were brave soldiers fighting for a lost cause...For us Indians shadat doesnt matter..the end result matters.



I strongly disagree with ur post... it was only because of weak arse politicians of my country.. anyway.. chal ab dimagh na tha .. daru peenay dei mujhay sukoon say.. har 2 sec baad koi na koi post quote kar deta hai.


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Do you know even the one used by NATO is like 13 kg?



empty weight 8kg, loaded weight 14kg, india has the lightest one made by drdo with some composite materials.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> empty weight 8kg, loaded weight 14kg, india has the lightest one made by drdo with some composite materials.



 Sure whatever makes you happy.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> No thanks your stupidity is enough.
> 
> 
> Id like to see where i disrespected ur soldiers? apart from the criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> I strongly disagree with ur post... it was only because of weak arse politicians of my country.. anyway.. chal ab dimagh ka tha .. daru peenay dei mujhay sukoon say.. har 2 sec baad koi na koi post quote kar deta hai.



Above two lines shows your stupidity and immaturity not mine.

Weak a$$ politicians are in this part of the world also...Anyways have your drink.. 

I wished we were friends having known you a little bit..but i guess we are too similar to be friends and peaceful.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Above two lines shows your stupidity and immaturity not mine.
> 
> Weak a$$ politicians are in this part of the world also...Anyways have your drink..
> 
> I wished we were friends having known you a little bit..but i guess we are too similar to be friends and peaceful.




First you accuse me of bs AK vs tavor,rpg vs CG,mp5 vs m-4... than you insult our soldiers ... and im supposed to be immature n stupid? 

Anyway


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> First you accuse me of bs AK vs tavor,rpg vs CG,mp5 vs m-4... than you insult our soldiers ... and im supposed to be immature n stupid?
> 
> Anyway



Yeah right..guess it was i who called you a fanboy..anyways aik marey teraf se extra pi lena


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure whatever makes you happy.



your last line of defence


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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> your military knowledge is one of the worse i know.
> read about Bana Singh
> Bana Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Siachen conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> in Siachen conflict india got intelligence that pakistan is going to take Siachen so indian forces outsmart pakistan and take Siachen. there was no israeli forces in this conflict.
> 
> i challenge you can you provide any successful operation of ssg against india?





Now im really sure yr just Civilians kid.

Wikipedia sources r not authentic. The information abt intel r pure rubbish as we had no plans for such offensive.

India is known to spread rumors and rubbish regarding history in internet.

Read the books of authentic people connected with this incident to gain precise info.


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## Umair Nawaz

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> yeah,you made me realise how inferior my knowledge is after reading your post.
> 
> What a piece of fcking bulshit written like a speech..
> 
> *Regarding religion*....i can give you a nice lesson on your religion but forget it who gives a damn about what a Pakistani thinks when the whole fcking world knows what you are..


Oh Chacha G i was referring to the military knowledge that u indians have.
It seems u only believe what is told to u before doing yr own research.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Umair Nawaz said:


> Oh Chacha G i was referring to the military knowledge that u indians have.
> It seems u only believe what is told to u before doing yr own research.



Haan beta G..we believe what we have a link of.


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## Umair Nawaz

mafiya said:


> So basically what they trying to say, since MARCOS have strict training regime so they are superior to our Special forces. It happens only in Soviet india, they gauge SF superiority not on how successful Ops they conducted against enemies but on how much they look bad ***..
> 
> Such fan boys should see, Serbian special forces thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video is on youtube as well.



And the video is from indian sources themselves.

It was uploaded by @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=27328" target="_blank">abdulbarijan</a></u>

And these r our men of steel. Again Not SSG man but an infantryman in NWFP against terrorists.






And this is SSG and SSW

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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> Now im really sure yr just Civilians kid.
> 
> Wikipedia sources r not authentic. The information abt intel r pure rubbish as we had no plans for such offensive.
> 
> India is known to spread rumors and rubbish regarding history in internet.
> 
> Read the books of authentic people connected with this incident to gain precise info.



correct information will only get through a neutral source.

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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> 72hours?? if you are mentioning is 26/11 then it is 59 hours. 5 things you must understood
> 1. mumbai is the largest city with ill equipped and poorly trained police forces.
> 2. the attack was conducted by highly trained militants from pakistan, mumbai police with WW2 weapon cannot mach them.
> 3. marcos reach there without any intelligence of what is happening there, they faced these militants as a local gangsters.
> 4. to save people from these hotels were gusts are locked themself inside the hotel is time consuming.
> 5. the attack was not on a single place, it was simultaneous attack on multiple places, withe bomb attacks. make security forces total confusing and they have no idea what is happening there.
> 
> these are the main reason why security forces take 59H in that operation.



The operation took 72 hrs to clear them out in case u dont know.

1) When the World is facing Global terrorism and u were attacked before too in yr country by them, but still the police were instructed to hold them.

U want me believe that u dont have a SF presence in yr largest city?
LOL u may tell that excuse to indians but nobody is gonna buy that.

2)LOL pure rubbish These r Militants not regular people. They r at their best designated as poorly trained partisan style highly motivated civilians. Their gear is even not close to the worse SF forces around the globe.

Again nobody is gonna buy that either.

3)Yes! now u r talking, my sources also conform this that op was done by MARCOS not NSG people.

Still my point is that, after all that tall glory claims in wars and still took them 72 hrs to clear them out where as our Zarar Company of SSG (who r responsible for CT ops) it took them 44 minutes to do the job even inside the AB like Kamra who is our main AB.

So the claim of MARCOS being best or even better then SSG dont fit in this either.

4) and the casualties were more then 160 people and of loss in property as well.... The damage was done, there was no reason for them still to be so late. Look at Kamra and Mehran Attack where there was also loss of property/assets and lives, still it took them few hrs and 44 minutes respectively.

The point is that the damage which was bound to have happened has been done already, there is not point in holding back now. 

If still it takes a SF soo much time then clearly they have lot of problems either in training/moral or attitudes.


5) And so were the attacks in Kamra and Mehran. In Kamra we have PAC there which itself is a complex of many companies/manufacturing plants.

And the people who raided Kamra and Mehran were More then just 9.

Even if we take yr argument seriously, then the logical analysis can be that just 9 people in different buildings means each building should have few lets say 1 to 3 men there meaning minimum resistance and u have all the options of SFs in yr table with no shortage of Supply both in ammo and men and the others who were just 9 and brought ammo with them have no such leverages. Still it takes them so much time and in that time span they keep on doing more damage.

Clearly this would have been a very big concern for me if i were an indian.

The final word is that these r just excuses to put things under carpet so that national moral stays up then making armed forces held accountable for showing lack of will/courage in what it takes to fight big time.

Accept it or not its yr business. But we r satisfied and happy because these fighting capabilities show us that our enemy is not that good as it claims for itself.



HariPrasad said:


> We have seen the wonders Madrasas have made on your country. Keep it up. Madrasas have done something what an enemy army can not do.
> 
> And yes we have seen the performance of your commandos in the fight against the terrorist. We also see your ISI, your military and your police performance . All we show in last one week.



Yup and still these wonder men have besieged yr entire Armed Forces and yr financial capital for good 72 hrs.



kbd-raaf said:


> Yes, that's about right. Take pride in your ignorance.



Rather its u who is talking pride in ignorance.

U havnt provided an authentic proof still.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Haan beta G..we believe what we have a link of.



And that attitude shows too

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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> correct information will only get through a neutral source.



Sure and the sources must be authentic and should be accepted as neutral worldwide too!!!!!

Things is that there is no such thing as neutral in this sad Age we r living in.

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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> The operation took 72 hrs to clear them out in case u dont know.
> 
> 1) When the World is facing Global terrorism and u were attacked before but still the police were instructed to hold them.
> 
> So u want me believe that u dont have a SF presence in yr largest city?
> LOL u may tell that excuse to indians but nobody is gonna buy that.
> 
> 2)LOL pure rubbish These r Militants not regular people. They r designated at best as poorly trained partisan style highly motivated civilians. Their gear is even not close to the worse SF forces around the globe.
> 
> Again nobody is gonna buy that either.
> 
> 3)Yes now u r talking, my sources also conform this that op was done by MARCOS not NSG people.
> 
> Still my point is after all that tall glory claims in wars and still took them 72 hrs to clear them out where was our Zarar Company of SSG who r responsible for CT ops it took them 44 minutes to do the job even inside the AB like Kamra who is our main AB.
> 
> So the claim of MARCOS being best or even better then SSG dont fit in this either.
> 
> 4) and the casualties were more then 160 people and a lot of loss in property.... The damage was done there was no reason for them still to be so late. Look at Kamra and Mehran Attack where there was also loss of property/assets and lives out still it took them few hrs and 44 minutes respectively.
> 
> The point is the damage which was bound to have happened have already done, there is not point in holding back now.
> If still it takes a SF soo much time then clearly they have look of problems either in training/moral or attitudes.
> 
> 
> 5) Either do the attacks were in Kamra and Mehran. In Kamra we have PAC there which itself is a complex of many companies/manufacturing plants.
> 
> And the people who raided Kamra and Mehran were More then just 9.
> 
> Even if we take yr argument seriously, then the logical thing is that just 9 people r in different buildings means each building should have few lets say 1 to 3 men there and u have all the options of SFs in yr table with no shortage of Supply both in ammo and men and the others who were just 9 and brought ammo with them have no such leverages.
> 
> If still it takes them this much time then clearly this is a very big concern for me if i were an indian.
> 
> The final word is that these r just excuses or armed forces lacks what it takes to fight big time.
> 
> Accept it or not its yr business. But we r satisfied and happy because these fighting capabilities show us that our enemy is not that good as it claims for itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup and still these wonder men have besieged yr entire Armed Forces and yr financial capital for good 72 hrs.
> 
> 
> 
> Rather its u who is talking pride in ignorance.
> 
> U havnt provided an authentic proof still.
> 
> 
> 
> And that attitude shows too



mumbai attack is of 59 hours. it start at 9: 30 pm of 26 nov and ends at 29 nov 8:00 am
=> 2.5+24+24+8 = 58:30 hours.






1. no, attack like that is first in mumbai. police were told to stop and they tried, but they are partially succeeded in it. that is how kasab was captured vvvv






if i tell you that there was no special forces presence(other than marcos) in mumbai then you have to beleve that because it is true.

2. these militants are not ordinary militants they are highly trained in different places in pakistan.
2008 Mumbai attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia check "Training" section in it






rest of the video is also in internet

3. the ssg was clearing a military base not large hotels. ask somebody who knows about hostage rescue. military personals know how to face terrorism unlike foreign and domestic tourists who lock himself inside the hotel. SF has to blast each door to check whether there is any terrorists, as they have plenty of places to hide even in bath tub. the attack was occured in different parts of city and it will create chaos. marcos enter into the hotel without any knowledge of hottel, number of terrorists, what weapon are they using etc unlike marcos, ssg knows all these during their operation in that military base. (initially 25 marcos personals of QRF for the protection of Oil rig in case of a attack on it, are arrived at the scene which was not sufficient for that operation)

4. in mumbai attack terrorist's primary target was people who don't know how to react in a terrorist attack unlike mumbai attack pakistan military base has only active duty military personal and the terrorists primary target was the fighter planes and other aircrafts. when marcos arrived in the mumbai they were told that there are more than 20 terrorists in taj. and marcos was concentrating on the safe rescue of 1000s of people in that hotel. in Kamra and Mehran there are few 100 military personals.

5. Kamra and Mehran is a military base that are surrounded by long walls and ssg need only to concentrate on that particular compound not entair city unlike Kamra and Mehran mumbai attack was occurred simultaneous attack on different method(shooting, bomb explosions, granide attacks). yes there are different buildings were in Kamra and Mehran. but not in the size or type in mumbai.

p.s- 
1. don't compare a military base with a large hotel.
2. don't compare a military compound with a metropolitan city.
3. don't compare military personals with civilians and their behaviour during terrorist attack.
4. don't compare a highly protected military base to a defenceless city.
5. pakistan's primary urbain counter terrorism force is SSG, india's NSG not marcos. if 36-100 us navy seals are asked to rescue the peoples from different places during mumbai style attack in an american city without any intelligence on terrorists and the area, they cannot do that job with an excellency of a SWAT team doing it. it doesn't mean that seals are less trained than SWAT.

Yes, special forces made many mistakes in mumbai attack, they failed to understand the gravity of situation, they initially deal this as they are dealing some gangsters, they didn't bring enough equipments for this kind of operations (this is about marcos), they lack the mobility needed for this operation, and coordination between security personals, commandos, intelligence agencies are very poor.

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## special

training videos of indian special forces:

MARCOS:







para commandos:






garuds:

Garud Commandos Of Indian Air Force - YouTube

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## special

further reference:
NDTV » Search » rajeev ranjan

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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> mumbai attack is of 59 hours. it start at 9: 30 pm of 26 nov and ends at 29 nov 8:00 am
> => 2.5+24+24+8 = 58:30 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. no, attack like that is first in mumbai. police were told to stop and they tried, but they are partially succeeded in it. that is how kasab was captured vvvv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if i tell you that there was no special forces presence(other than marcos) in mumbai then you have to beleve that because it is true.
> 
> 2. these militants are not ordinary militants they are highly trained in different places in pakistan.
> 2008 Mumbai attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia check "Training" section in it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rest of the video is also in internet
> 
> 3. the ssg was clearing a military base not large hotels. ask somebody who knows about hostage rescue. military personals know how to face terrorism unlike foreign and domestic tourists who lock himself inside the hotel. SF has to blast each door to check whether there is any terrorists, as they have plenty of places to hide even in bath tub. the attack was occured in different parts of city and it will create chaos. marcos enter into the hotel without any knowledge of hottel, number of terrorists, what weapon are they using etc unlike marcos, ssg knows all these during their operation in that military base. (initially 25 marcos personals of QRF for the protection of Oil rig in case of a attack on it, are arrived at the scene which was not sufficient for that operation)
> 
> 4. in mumbai attack terrorist's primary target was people who don't know how to react in a terrorist attack unlike mumbai attack pakistan military base has only active duty military personal and the terrorists primary target was the fighter planes and other aircrafts. when marcos arrived in the mumbai they were told that there are more than 20 terrorists in taj. and marcos was concentrating on the safe rescue of 1000s of people in that hotel. in Kamra and Mehran there are few 100 military personals.
> 
> 5. Kamra and Mehran is a military base that are surrounded by long walls and ssg need only to concentrate on that particular compound not entair city unlike Kamra and Mehran mumbai attack was occurred simultaneous attack on different method(shooting, bomb explosions, granide attacks). yes there are different buildings were in Kamra and Mehran. but not in the size or type in mumbai.
> 
> p.s-
> 1. don't compare a military base with a large hotel.
> 2. don't compare a military compound with a metropolitan city.
> 3. don't compare military personals with civilians and their behaviour during terrorist attack.
> 4. don't compare a highly protected military base to a defenceless city.
> 5. pakistan's primary urbain counter terrorism force is SSG, india's NSG not marcos. if 36-100 us navy seals are asked to rescue the peoples from different places during mumbai style attack in an american city without any intelligence on terrorists and the area, they cannot do that job with an excellency of a SWAT team doing it. it doesn't mean that seals are less trained than SWAT.
> 
> Yes, special forces made many mistakes in mumbai attack, they failed to understand the gravity of situation, they initially deal this as they are dealing some gangsters, they didn't bring enough equipments for this kind of operations (this is about marcos), they lack the mobility needed for this operation, and coordination between security personals, commandos, intelligence agencies are very poor.



Even if we agree in 59 hrs still thats a lot of time it means 2 days and 11 hrs.

1) Very hard to believe that.Anyways....


Kasab was capture in the dying moments of the attack. Or if not he was not capture before 48 hrs into operation.

Yr largest city has SF presence..... Yr MARCOS r part of SF forces or arnt they?

2)Wikipedia is not taken as a source. The training title has some american individual analysts and indian media sources. Again not neutral towards pakistan. So they will always give more fire if its any negative abt pakistan. There was a report in 2010 by American gov saying it as the biggest security lapse of the century Which is pure rubbish as they were trying to hide their weaknesses that we saw in 9/11. 

So u see they will only say somethings that works for them. Following truth is not their priority.

Anyways yr gov claims they were trained in muridke and the title claims to be trained in Mangla etc etc places....

So there are contradictions here.

The argument stays...They r at their best designated as poorly trained partisan style highly motivated civilians. Their gear is even not close to the worse SF forces around the globe.



3)Exactly is my point they r just hotels not Military bases where sensitive assets r kept.

If it takes them door to door hunt for terrorists or rescue hostages then thats why more then one team of SFs work on it. Still That much time is not understandable.

Again will not buy this excuse.

MARCOS being best in the World or better then SSG. I dont see that happening.

4) Sure people were their target and also was to besiege yr main city. In that also they were successful, also let me remind u that people were evacuated from hostile areas within hrs of attack so still it took them according to u 59 hrs is still unbelievable to me.

Still my point is same the damage which was bound to have happen has happen. Same way like Kamra and Mehran which were more sensitive then raiding hotels to clear militants out.

Thats the difference b/w Indian forces and Pakistani Forces.

Its the attitude that makes difference in the end.

5) First answer me have u ever been to a Military base of strategic value or a Military Complex like DRDO or HAL??

If u were there specially in DRDO or HAL which is complex standard facility u will know how vast they will be and how many Plants and Companies will be inside that Complex. Every company has its critical output in making a Military Unity. 

In the case of Kamra we have PAC in side, Officers Colony, Workers Colony etc etc. Now PAC who was targeted has many group of companies, R&D facilities and Manufacturing plants there and also there r air field and hangers where a/c like F16s JF17s r parked. Now Abt A/C even a single bullet hit them then they may not be able to fly again without repairs. That is how much protective and how much sensitive the environment is inside these military bases and in a situation where some crazy gruop of men raid an area like this and the SFs r to clear them out then they r specially instructed to be extra careful and shoot when u r sure abt the target and bullet. Let me remind u that they have just not AKs but r armed with explosives where a single bullet hints them they blow themselves now imagine if they r close to a sensitive asset? The impact of blast is enough to destroy an A/c or even a Machine in a Manufacturing plant. 


The Kamra and Mehran attacks were more sensitive / important then fighting in an urban hostile situation to save hostages.

So if in Mumbai the attackers held more targets then so did they in Mehran and specially Kamra.


With these odds against them it still took them just 44 minutes in kamra and took yr armed forces 59 hrs (again by u) in a more easy environment to raid hotels clear militants and rescue hostages tells different story abt fighting capabilities abt yr armed forces.


Mehran Base has no tall walls the a/c parked inside can be seem from the outside too and people who raided Kamra and Mehran were More then just 9

Still argument stays....



Even if we take yr argument seriously, then the logical analysis can be that just 9 people in different buildings means each building should have few lets say 1 to 3 men there meaning minimum resistance and u have all the options of SFs in yr table with no shortage of Supply both in ammo and men and the others who were just 9 and brought ammo with them have no such leverages. Still it takes them so much time and in that time span they keep on doing more damage.


Regarding Rest of yr points....

Again nobody is gonna buy them and i have explained them why. 

According to same wikipedia Yr intelligence knew abt these attacks even a simple wikipedia read will let u know. Read that in RAW's page but i will not share it as i dont believe in wikipedia info But as u shared it so im also telling u from what i read there.

Also even if we believe that!!! then let me tell u we also didnt had intel our attacks too. and our SSG is also not responsible for any type of urban hostile situations only SSG's zarar Company does that.

But that shows who is better prepared to face any hostile situation in any time of need. Regardless of being in Alert.

Regarding yr last words....

If yr armed forces lack co-operation then our armed forces r no better either. They have rivalry b/w the Services here.

These r just excuses to put things under carpet so that national/forces moral stays up then making armed forces held accountable for showing lack of will/courage.... These r old tactics by Indian Armed forces.... See this...

Disclosing Kargil casualties would affect morale of troops: CIC

They r known to be doing that.


In the end it still comes to this who is better prepared to face any hostile environment in a moments notice. This is what make Special Forces special.

Accept it or not its up to u.

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## klub

Umair Nawaz said:


> Even if we agree in 59 hrs still thats a lot of time it means 2 days and 11 hrs.
> 
> 1) Very hard to believe that.Anyways....
> 
> 
> Kasab was capture in the dying moments of the attack. Or if not he was not capture before 48 hrs into operation.
> 
> Yr largest city has SF presence..... Yr MARCOS r part of SF forces or arnt they?
> 
> 2)Wikipedia is not taken as a source. The training title has some american individual analysts and indian media sources. Again not neutral towards pakistan. So they will always give more fire if its any negative abt pakistan. There was a report in 2010 by American gov saying it as the biggest security lapse of the century Which is pure rubbish as they were trying to hide their weaknesses that we saw in 9/11.
> 
> So u see they will only say somethings that works for them. Following truth is not their priority.
> 
> Anyways yr gov claims they were trained in muridke and the title claims to be trained in Mangla etc etc places....
> 
> So there are contradictions here.
> 
> The argument stays...They r at their best designated as poorly trained partisan style highly motivated civilians. Their gear is even not close to the worse SF forces around the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> 3)Exactly is my point they r just hotels not Military bases where sensitive assets r kept.
> 
> If it takes them door to door hunt for terrorists or rescue hostages then thats why more then one team of SFs work on it. Still That much time is not understandable.
> 
> Again will not buy this excuse.
> 
> MARCOS being best in the World or better then SSG. I dont see that happening.
> 
> 4) Sure people were their target and also was to besiege yr main city. In that also they were successful, also let me remind u that people were evacuated from hostile areas within hrs of attack so still it took them according to u 59 hrs is still unbelievable to me.
> 
> Still my point is same the damage which was bound to have happen has happen. Same way like Kamra and Mehran which were more sensitive then raiding hotels to clear militants out.
> 
> Thats the difference b/w Indian forces and Pakistani Forces.
> 
> Its the attitude that makes difference in the end.
> 
> 5) First answer me have u ever been to a Military base of strategic value or a Military Complex like DRDO or HAL??
> 
> If u were there specially in DRDO or HAL which is complex standard facility u will know how vast they will be and how many Plants and Companies will be inside that Complex. Every company has its critical output in making a Military Unity.
> 
> In the case of Kamra we have PAC in side, Officers Colony, Workers Colony etc etc. Now PAC who was targeted has many group of companies, R&D facilities and Manufacturing plants there and also there r air field and hangers where a/c like F16s JF17s r parked. Now Abt A/C even a single bullet hit them then they may not be able to fly again without repairs. That is how much protective and how much sensitive the environment is inside these military bases and in a situation where some crazy gruop of men raid an area like this and the SFs r to clear them out then they r specially instructed to be extra careful and shoot when u r sure abt the target and bullet. Let me remind u that they have just not AKs but r armed with explosives where a single bullet hints them they blow themselves now imagine if they r close to a sensitive asset? The impact of blast is enough to destroy an A/c or even a Machine in a Manufacturing plant.
> 
> 
> The Kamra and Mehran attacks were more sensitive / important then fighting in an urban hostile situation to save hostages.
> 
> So if in Mumbai the attackers held more targets then so did they in Mehran and specially Kamra.
> 
> 
> With these odds against them it still took them just 44 minutes in kamra and took yr armed forces 59 hrs (again by u) in a more easy environment to raid hotels clear militants and rescue hostages tells different story abt fighting capabilities abt yr armed forces.
> 
> 
> Mehran Base has no tall walls the a/c parked inside can be seem from the outside too and people who raided Kamra and Mehran were More then just 9
> 
> Still argument stays....
> 
> 
> 
> Even if we take yr argument seriously, then the logical analysis can be that just 9 people in different buildings means each building should have few lets say 1 to 3 men there meaning minimum resistance and u have all the options of SFs in yr table with no shortage of Supply both in ammo and men and the others who were just 9 and brought ammo with them have no such leverages. Still it takes them so much time and in that time span they keep on doing more damage.
> 
> 
> Regarding Rest of yr points....
> 
> Again nobody is gonna buy them and i have explained them why.
> 
> According to same wikipedia Yr intelligence knew abt these attacks even a simple wikipedia read will let u know. Read that in RAW's page but i will not share it as i dont believe in wikipedia info But as u shared it so im also telling u from what i read there.
> 
> Also even if we believe that!!! then let me tell u we also didnt had intel our attacks too. and our SSG is also not responsible for any type of urban hostile situations only SSG's zarar Company does that.
> 
> But that shows who is better prepared to face any hostile situation in any time of need. Regardless of being in Alert.
> 
> Regarding yr last words....
> 
> If yr armed forces lack co-operation then our armed forces r no better either. They have rivalry b/w the Services here.
> 
> These r just excuses to put things under carpet so that national/forces moral stays up then making armed forces held accountable for showing lack of will/courage.... These r old tactics by Indian Armed forces.... See this...
> 
> Disclosing Kargil casualties would affect morale of troops: CIC
> 
> They r known to be doing that.
> 
> 
> In the end it still comes to this who is better prepared to face any hostile environment in a moments notice. This is what make Special Forces special.
> 
> Accept it or not its up to u.




Funny your SF regulary get "targeted" and you call it better. Were they sleeping when Osama was sunbathing topless in Abottabad?

BTW in 1987, ordinary Indian Grenadiers beat up you Mard e Momins.

After 1984, Pakistan launched several attempts to displace the Indian forces, but with little success. The most well known was in 1987, when an attempt was made by Pakistan to dislodge India from the area. *The attack was masterminded by Pervez Musharraf (later President of Pakistan) heading a newly raised elite SSG commando unit raised with United States Special Operations Forces help in the area. A special garrison with eight thousand troops was built at Khapalu. The immediate aim was to capture Bilafond La but after bitter fighting that included hand to hand combat, the Pakistani attack was repulsed and the positions remained the same. *

Marcos are possibly the best in South Asia due to their intensive experience of arranging meetings b/w terrorists and the male virgin brigade in Hell. Hell their dropout rate is 90%. 

New Response Time :

Indian marine comm*andos need 60 minutes to target | Deccan Chronicle

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## Mike_Brando

Umair Nawaz said:


> Sure atleast its still better then a Mandir with Indian Special Forces of Swamis and Pundits


aren't you the guy who claimed that the first human being on earth was a man named Adammaybe Adam was a SSG commando after all

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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> Even if we agree in 59 hrs still thats a lot of time it means 2 days and 11 hrs.
> 
> 1) Very hard to believe that.Anyways....
> 
> 
> Kasab was capture in the dying moments of the attack. Or if not he was not capture before 48 hrs into operation.
> 
> Yr largest city has SF presence..... Yr MARCOS r part of SF forces or arnt they?
> 
> 2)Wikipedia is not taken as a source. The training title has some american individual analysts and indian media sources. Again not neutral towards pakistan. So they will always give more fire if its any negative abt pakistan. There was a report in 2010 by American gov saying it as the biggest security lapse of the century Which is pure rubbish as they were trying to hide their weaknesses that we saw in 9/11.
> 
> So u see they will only say somethings that works for them. Following truth is not their priority.
> 
> Anyways yr gov claims they were trained in muridke and the title claims to be trained in Mangla etc etc places....
> 
> So there are contradictions here.
> 
> The argument stays...They r at their best designated as poorly trained partisan style highly motivated civilians. Their gear is even not close to the worse SF forces around the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> 3)Exactly is my point they r just hotels not Military bases where sensitive assets r kept.
> 
> If it takes them door to door hunt for terrorists or rescue hostages then thats why more then one team of SFs work on it. Still That much time is not understandable.
> 
> Again will not buy this excuse.
> 
> MARCOS being best in the World or better then SSG. I dont see that happening.
> 
> 4) Sure people were their target and also was to besiege yr main city. In that also they were successful, also let me remind u that people were evacuated from hostile areas within hrs of attack so still it took them according to u 59 hrs is still unbelievable to me.
> 
> Still my point is same the damage which was bound to have happen has happen. Same way like Kamra and Mehran which were more sensitive then raiding hotels to clear militants out.
> 
> Thats the difference b/w Indian forces and Pakistani Forces.
> 
> Its the attitude that makes difference in the end.
> 
> 5) First answer me have u ever been to a Military base of strategic value or a Military Complex like DRDO or HAL??
> 
> If u were there specially in DRDO or HAL which is complex standard facility u will know how vast they will be and how many Plants and Companies will be inside that Complex. Every company has its critical output in making a Military Unity.
> 
> In the case of Kamra we have PAC in side, Officers Colony, Workers Colony etc etc. Now PAC who was targeted has many group of companies, R&D facilities and Manufacturing plants there and also there r air field and hangers where a/c like F16s JF17s r parked. Now Abt A/C even a single bullet hit them then they may not be able to fly again without repairs. That is how much protective and how much sensitive the environment is inside these military bases and in a situation where some crazy gruop of men raid an area like this and the SFs r to clear them out then they r specially instructed to be extra careful and shoot when u r sure abt the target and bullet. Let me remind u that they have just not AKs but r armed with explosives where a single bullet hints them they blow themselves now imagine if they r close to a sensitive asset? The impact of blast is enough to destroy an A/c or even a Machine in a Manufacturing plant.
> 
> 
> The Kamra and Mehran attacks were more sensitive / important then fighting in an urban hostile situation to save hostages.
> 
> So if in Mumbai the attackers held more targets then so did they in Mehran and specially Kamra.
> 
> 
> With these odds against them it still took them just 44 minutes in kamra and took yr armed forces 59 hrs (again by u) in a more easy environment to raid hotels clear militants and rescue hostages tells different story abt fighting capabilities abt yr armed forces.
> 
> 
> Mehran Base has no tall walls the a/c parked inside can be seem from the outside too and people who raided Kamra and Mehran were More then just 9
> 
> Still argument stays....
> 
> 
> 
> Even if we take yr argument seriously, then the logical analysis can be that just 9 people in different buildings means each building should have few lets say 1 to 3 men there meaning minimum resistance and u have all the options of SFs in yr table with no shortage of Supply both in ammo and men and the others who were just 9 and brought ammo with them have no such leverages. Still it takes them so much time and in that time span they keep on doing more damage.
> 
> 
> Regarding Rest of yr points....
> 
> Again nobody is gonna buy them and i have explained them why.
> 
> According to same wikipedia Yr intelligence knew abt these attacks even a simple wikipedia read will let u know. Read that in RAW's page but i will not share it as i dont believe in wikipedia info But as u shared it so im also telling u from what i read there.
> 
> Also even if we believe that!!! then let me tell u we also didnt had intel our attacks too. and our SSG is also not responsible for any type of urban hostile situations only SSG's zarar Company does that.
> 
> But that shows who is better prepared to face any hostile situation in any time of need. Regardless of being in Alert.
> 
> Regarding yr last words....
> 
> If yr armed forces lack co-operation then our armed forces r no better either. They have rivalry b/w the Services here.
> 
> These r just excuses to put things under carpet so that national/forces moral stays up then making armed forces held accountable for showing lack of will/courage.... These r old tactics by Indian Armed forces.... See this...
> 
> Disclosing Kargil casualties would affect morale of troops: CIC
> 
> They r known to be doing that.
> 
> 
> In the end it still comes to this who is better prepared to face any hostile environment in a moments notice. This is what make Special Forces special.
> 
> Accept it or not its up to u.





1. nobody say we are impressed by SF's response time. NSG take 10 hours to reach taj. and marcos take 4 hours. Kasab was captured by a brave police officer Tukaram Omble, search in google how he capture kasab. i said there were no special forces except for marcos, i don't say that marcos was not a special force, but it is not an urbain counter terrorism unit.

2. only india and US were investigating the 26/11. so only they can provide this information, for neutral source there is BBC reports in internet. it was the biggest security breach in the history of mumbai, by accepting that fact GoI is not hiding anything. it create a turning point on the country's approach on the special forces. NSG had best equipment for this kind of operation, mumbai police get its dedicated counter terrorism force. india is upgrading all of its security force from police constable to military special forces. Now mumbai police is equipped with M4, mp5,and ak103 from a WW2 era .303 enfield. 

3. during the attack on pakistan military bases terrorists destroy an AEW&CS, 3 navy anti-submarine planes and a fighter jet. the attack on the military base on pakistan is much large military intelligence and military force's failure than mumbai attack. in every country military bases are protected by highly trained unit. in pakistan these units failed to protect their asset, because of their lack of training and quality of men on the duty. mumbai was not protected by any kind of units except for coast guard and navy.
to avoid the capturing by navy and, CG they hijack a fishing vessel and kill all the men inside in it. so the reach mumbai unchallenged. in the case of pakistan at that time pakistan was fighting terrorism in FATA and waziristan and also they are fighting some terrorists in karachi too, so the security in karachi was much better than in mumbai, karachi police and military was on high alert, despite the high alert they failed to prevent the attack on karachi. in case of mumbai the security forces are not on high alert and the insurgency in kashmir is 1000s of km away from mumbai to being alert. unlike densely populated area in mumbai a military complex buildings in pakistan are constructed a considerable distance away and there is not much people in that compound for being taken as hostages. and there is not many rooms to be cleared and ssg is fighting from a considerable distance away from terrorists as the manufacturing areas which are larger than the entire ground floor of taj so clearing the room in a hotel is time consumig.
marcos are trained, equipped, deployed to conduct covert operations, unconventional warfare and counter terrorism(not in cities), not to conduct a SWAT team's work. marcos are best in what they are created for.

4. the last hostages are released on 29 nov. and the time taken for is to rescue the hostages in the hotel, you can search in google about mumbai attack.

in Kamra and Mehran there is no nuclear or conventional weapons to be so sensitive during firing (at least in the area were the terrorists attacked) a fighter jet and other military planes are constructed to withstan a direct hight from AK 47 so the terrorists use RPG, ssg does not need to be so sensitive during firing, in mumbai attack SF has to make sure that the are shooting at terrorists not civilians during night without any light and the terrorists are wearing simple dress like tourists. in pakistani military base the personals are wearing uniform and terrorists are wearing triditional dress of pakistani tribal area, so ssg can identify them easly.

5. yes i had visited DRDO with my parants and visited HAL with my uncle and i know how it is. and what is the differnce between a 6 floor hotel and a single floor assambling unit building.
there is a large distance between the entrance, the runway and buildings in an air force base or manufacturing unit. a hanger is in the one side of runway and the controll tower is in an another side. during attack in military base in pakistan the terrorists have to travel a large distance to get to the targets without any place to cover is like a sitting ducks for ssg , unlike in pakistan the mumbai hotel give lot of protection to terrorists from special forces enterining the hotel as it has more than 800 rooms in taj hotel to hide. in pakistan military can use helecoptor for fire support and a large space for maneuvering of helecoptors. they have enough space and have a clear line of sight on the terrorist from a long distance. yes NSG take 49:30 hours to clear the hotel and to save the hostages. the same NSG have a record of saving a hijacked plane in 12 minits after the ariwal of NSG in the spot, which no unit in pakistan can mach this time limit(Indian Airlines Flight 427 in 1993).

 and that is the difference b/w indian forces and pakistani forces


during the attack nobody knows how many terrorists are in taj and other places in mumbai and also there are multiple blast in different places of mumbai the reports are comming in and secutity force are in a caos situation to understand what is happining there as it is a war like situation. special forces are there with a primary objective of saving hostages in the hotel as they all are highprofile people. the terrorists in mumbai attack have enough ammunition, granides, bombs, and other drugs for incresing stamina. so they are well prepared for this and they know the hotel than the special forces. they are trained for this perticular attack. in pakistan terrorists 1st open fire on the security at the gate and they moved in foot to the target so security forces has enough time to aleart the specal forces and the entrance and the targets are seperated by a large distance, in mumbai the terrorist get only open fire only get close to their targets 
ssg is the primar forces for counterterrorism in urban warfare in pakistan, SSG's zarar company was the first one to came there - for your knowloge. 
i had already told you, there are inteligence about an attack, but police and government ignore the wanning. but the intelligence tells about an atack on mumbai from the sea ways and the police and securtiy forces failed to understand the intencity of the attack.

answer to your last sentence





your current PM who was also the PM in 1999 had already said that the casuality in kargil war on pakistan army is more than 4000, and your former military ruler musharaf said it is less than 200, isi said it is more than 3000. many dead bodys are bured in indian soil as pakistan denied that it is their soldiers. are these things pump up your soldier's morale. in 1971 after the death of only 8000 soldier your army surrendred is because of your high morale.... i salute your carage and morale. indian army kill 200 soldier of total 2000 came, destroyed 34 tanks and 500 vehicles supported by tanks and ICFs with only 120 indian soldier without any tanks and with only loss of two soldier in th battle of Battle of Longewala is only because of high curage of your soldiers... i admire your by knowing all these actions in different war with india.
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-n...Jan-2013/putting-our-children-in-line-of-fire

better prepared???? oh i am hearing about it for last 1 month in different parts in pakistan especially during the attack on the central prison break which is terrorists favorite target for couple of years.

p.s- don't over estimate your military and special forces and don't compare a military base to a civilian hotel. and don't quistion the curage of indian soldiers who beleve death is better than surrender.

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## Amaa'n

@Aeronaut @nuclearpak @Oscar , sir the topic is about Indian SF, and their pics and videos than why are they doscussing Pakistani SF here?

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## Jango

Where the heck has SSG, Kamra and Mehran come in here from?

*Any more off topic posts and you will be dealt with harshly.*

Keep posts restricted to Indian SF.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> T
> Regarding RPG..i was talking about the loader smart guy..who loads the weapon and not the one who carries it.



Dnt edit ur post ... also u dnt need a loader for RPG "smart guy" ... its fired like this :








while CG RR:

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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dnt edit ur post ... also u dnt need a loader for RPG "smart guy" ... its fired like this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while CG RR:



both of it can carried by a single man. if there is to man then the loading is faster. during reloading RPG has to take out the aiming but CG does not have to do that as it is loaded from backside and the other man can load it faster and the firing person can keep the aiming on the target. reloading become much easy for CG that is why indian special forces uses it as india has both rpg and CG

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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> botth of it can carried by a single man. if there is to man then the loading is faster. during reloading RPG has to take out the aiming but CG does not have to do that as it is loaded from backside and the other man can load it faster and the firing person can keep the aiming on the target. reloading become much easy for CG



Lol... no kid.. CG RRs ammo is heavy as fk .. same goes for the launcher.. and u cant aim and load the thing at the same time... unlike rpg where a soldier can just take out a rocket from his backpack load n fire... also these weapons arent used as "sniper rifles" .. they are used coz of their "fire power" ... against bigger areas,bunkers,hideouts etc....


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol... no kid.. CG RRs ammo is heavy as fk .. same goes for the launcher.. and u cant aim and load the thing at the same time... unlike rpg where a soldier can just take out a rocket from his backpack load n fire... also these weapons arent used as "sniper rifles" .. they are used coz of their "fire power" ... against bigger areas,bunkers,hideouts etc....




cg use optical sight with zooming capability






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_recoilless_rifle read this.

cg uses Open (iron) sights, optical 3×, laser rangefinder, image intensification system which will increase accuracy. RPG uses only iron sight

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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> cg use optical sight with zooming capability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_recoilless_rifle read this.



Lol and u think RPG doesnt?


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## special

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol and u think RPG doesnt?



rpg-7 and 29 has only iron sight and doesn't have laser rangefinder, image intensification system etc.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> rpg-7 and 29 has only iron sight and doesn't have laser rangefinder, image intensification system etc.



Do you even know what laser range finders are?lol as for image intensifiers RPGs also use them..

Here is an RPG produced by POF (pic from IDEAS exhibition):






Are those "only" iron sights?

You dnt know jack abt military stuff do you?

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## special

it is a prototype not in service.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dnt edit ur post ... also u dnt need a loader for RPG "smart guy" ... its fired like this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while CG RR:



I didnt edit my post..moreover Carl gustav is more accurate that RPG.

One question...why did US soldiers use Carl gustav and not RPG in Afghanistan even when RPG was easily available?

And do you know how many types of ammunition the Gustav can fire...what about RPG?

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## Umair Nawaz

klub said:


> Funny your SF regulary get "targeted" and you call it better. Were they sleeping when Osama was sunbathing topless in Abottabad?
> 
> BTW in 1987, ordinary Indian Grenadiers beat up you Mard e Momins.
> 
> After 1984, Pakistan launched several attempts to displace the Indian forces, but with little success. The most well known was in 1987, when an attempt was made by Pakistan to dislodge India from the area. *The attack was masterminded by Pervez Musharraf (later President of Pakistan) heading a newly raised elite SSG commando unit raised with United States Special Operations Forces help in the area. A special garrison with eight thousand troops was built at Khapalu. The immediate aim was to capture Bilafond La but after bitter fighting that included hand to hand combat, the Pakistani attack was repulsed and the positions remained the same. *
> 
> Marcos are possibly the best in South Asia due to their intensive experience of arranging meetings b/w terrorists and the male virgin brigade in Hell. Hell their dropout rate is 90%.
> 
> New Response Time :
> 
> Indian marine comm*andos need 60 minutes to target | Deccan Chronicle



Dont make me laugh kiddo the bolded lines r taken from wikipedia's siachin conflict page.

Its even funnier to me that indian news papers also copy wikipedia's info.

MARCOS being best.........

Sure we all know that very well.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

Mike_Brando said:


> aren't you the guy who claimed that the first human being on earth was a man named Adammaybe Adam was a SSG commando after all





kiddo ignorance is bless.......


----------



## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> 1. nobody say we are impressed by SF's response time. NSG take 10 hours to reach taj. and marcos take 4 hours. Kasab was captured by a brave police officer Tukaram Omble, search in google how he capture kasab. i said there were no special forces except for marcos, i don't say that marcos was not a special force, but it is not an urbain counter terrorism unit.
> 
> 2. only india and US were investigating the 26/11. so only they can provide this information, for neutral source there is BBC reports in internet. it was the biggest security breach in the history of mumbai, by accepting that fact GoI is not hiding anything. it create a turning point on the country's approach on the special forces. NSG had best equipment for this kind of operation, mumbai police get its dedicated counter terrorism force. india is upgrading all of its security force from police constable to military special forces. Now mumbai police is equipped with M4, mp5,and ak103 from a WW2 era .303 enfield.
> 
> 3. during the attack on pakistan military bases terrorists destroy an AEW&CS, 3 navy anti-submarine planes and a fighter jet. the attack on the military base on pakistan is much large military intelligence and military force's failure than mumbai attack. in every country military bases are protected by highly trained unit. in pakistan these units failed to protect their asset, because of their lack of training and quality of men on the duty. mumbai was not protected by any kind of units except for coast guard and navy.
> to avoid the capturing by navy and, CG they hijack a fishing vessel and kill all the men inside in it. so the reach mumbai unchallenged. in the case of pakistan at that time pakistan was fighting terrorism in FATA and waziristan and also they are fighting some terrorists in karachi too, so the security in karachi was much better than in mumbai, karachi police and military was on high alert, despite the high alert they failed to prevent the attack on karachi. in case of mumbai the security forces are not on high alert and the insurgency in kashmir is 1000s of km away from mumbai to being alert. unlike densely populated area in mumbai a military complex buildings in pakistan are constructed a considerable distance away and there is not much people in that compound for being taken as hostages. and there is not many rooms to be cleared and ssg is fighting from a considerable distance away from terrorists as the manufacturing areas which are larger than the entire ground floor of taj so clearing the room in a hotel is time consumig.
> marcos are trained, equipped, deployed to conduct covert operations, unconventional warfare and counter terrorism(not in cities), not to conduct a SWAT team's work. marcos are best in what they are created for.
> 
> 4. the last hostages are released on 29 nov. and the time taken for is to rescue the hostages in the hotel, you can search in google about mumbai attack.
> 
> in Kamra and Mehran there is no nuclear or conventional weapons to be so sensitive during firing (at least in the area were the terrorists attacked) a fighter jet and other military planes are constructed to withstan a direct hight from AK 47 so the terrorists use RPG, ssg does not need to be so sensitive during firing, in mumbai attack SF has to make sure that the are shooting at terrorists not civilians during night without any light and the terrorists are wearing simple dress like tourists. in pakistani military base the personals are wearing uniform and terrorists are wearing triditional dress of pakistani tribal area, so ssg can identify them easly.
> 
> 5. yes i had visited DRDO with my parants and visited HAL with my uncle and i know how it is. and what is the differnce between a 6 floor hotel and a single floor assambling unit building.
> there is a large distance between the entrance, the runway and buildings in an air force base or manufacturing unit. a hanger is in the one side of runway and the controll tower is in an another side. during attack in military base in pakistan the terrorists have to travel a large distance to get to the targets without any place to cover is like a sitting ducks for ssg , unlike in pakistan the mumbai hotel give lot of protection to terrorists from special forces enterining the hotel as it has more than 800 rooms in taj hotel to hide. in pakistan military can use helecoptor for fire support and a large space for maneuvering of helecoptors. they have enough space and have a clear line of sight on the terrorist from a long distance. yes NSG take 49:30 hours to clear the hotel and to save the hostages. the same NSG have a record of saving a hijacked plane in 12 minits after the ariwal of NSG in the spot, which no unit in pakistan can mach this time limit(Indian Airlines Flight 427 in 1993).
> 
> and that is the difference b/w indian forces and pakistani forces
> 
> 
> during the attack nobody knows how many terrorists are in taj and other places in mumbai and also there are multiple blast in different places of mumbai the reports are comming in and secutity force are in a caos situation to understand what is happining there as it is a war like situation. special forces are there with a primary objective of saving hostages in the hotel as they all are highprofile people. the terrorists in mumbai attack have enough ammunition, granides, bombs, and other drugs for incresing stamina. so they are well prepared for this and they know the hotel than the special forces. they are trained for this perticular attack. in pakistan terrorists 1st open fire on the security at the gate and they moved in foot to the target so security forces has enough time to aleart the specal forces and the entrance and the targets are seperated by a large distance, in mumbai the terrorist get only open fire only get close to their targets
> ssg is the primar forces for counterterrorism in urban warfare in pakistan, SSG's zarar company was the first one to came there - for your knowloge.
> i had already told you, there are inteligence about an attack, but police and government ignore the wanning. but the intelligence tells about an atack on mumbai from the sea ways and the police and securtiy forces failed to understand the intencity of the attack.
> 
> answer to your last sentence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your current PM who was also the PM in 1999 had already said that the casuality in kargil war on pakistan army is more than 4000, and your former military ruler musharaf said it is less than 200, isi said it is more than 3000. many dead bodys are bured in indian soil as pakistan denied that it is their soldiers. are these things pump up your soldier's morale. in 1971 after the death of only 8000 soldier your army surrendred is because of your high morale.... i salute your carage and morale. indian army kill 200 soldier of total 2000 came, destroyed 34 tanks and 500 vehicles supported by tanks and ICFs with only 120 indian soldier without any tanks and with only loss of two soldier in th battle of Battle of Longewala is only because of high curage of your soldiers... i admire your by knowing all these actions in different war with india.
> Putting our children in line of fire
> 
> better prepared???? oh i am hearing about it for last 1 month in different parts in pakistan especially during the attack on the central prison break which is terrorists favorite target for couple of years.
> 
> p.s- don't over estimate your military and special forces and don't compare a military base to a civilian hotel. and don't quistion the curage of indian soldiers who beleve death is better than surrender.


After reading yr post all i can do this and this  and again this

Who r u a comic master??

Comparing A Battle with Covert militant attacks is best u can come up with?

The reason u won that battle was because of air support and questionable tactics used by field commander of Army in that area.

We did not had air support in that battle.

Now as u have shared this let me tell u abt our Soldiers like Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed and Sepoy Lalak jan Of NLI in the defence of Tiger Hill etc etc. Read about the Defence of Lahore, Battle of Chawinda which is called the second largest tank battle of human history in 65 and Battle of Chamb in 65. Also the reason we surrendered in 71 was because of no air support+navy and Supplies because u had blocked us and we had to fight the terrorists of Bengal too in one end and indian forces in other end. 

In the end if u listen to Gen Niazi speech while surrendering he clearly said that there was no use of keep on fighting when specially the locals have turned against u hence surrender is better option in this scenario.

Regarding 99 well the courage of our NLI is an example for itself where 4500 took 30,000 men. and still reached up to tiger hill which is the highest point in area. That alone speaks volumes again no SSG was involved there.

Our PM is bull **** he is merely taking out his personal frustrations here not talking abt the facts. Even we people of Pakistan dont believe him and yr believing him sitting in outside Pakistan.

But i thought we were discussing the SFs here not the battle or were we?


Regarding these attacks i have already cleared u enough that the damage which was bound to have happen has already happened there was no point in delaying it now which according to u was 59 hrs but we believe it took u 72 hrs. In that op u also had heli support too.

Still just 44 minutes and 59 hrs is a very crazy difference.

Like i said we didnt had intel on that if it were we would have not allowed them to have done the damage which they already did.

Still this shows who better prepared to face any type of hostilities in any given time with out even being alert.

Any ways bro i know u have a little knowledge specially after reading this post of yrs and honestly i thought we were having a fruitful discussion. But u exposed yr self when u had started comparing battles with XYZ covert militant ops.In the past indians i have meet in pdf r just stupid people who seem to believe what they read or hear in TV and News papers/internet.

Sorry dude but im not anymore interested in and more conversations with u hand also nuclearpak has also warned to not post off topic posts. 

But remember that 65,71,99 was in last century but history shows that the successful nations r those who live in today not in past.

Any how goodbye friend. It was nice talking to u and u have good analytical power as i can see before u started comparing the battles and these SF ops.

Keep on gaining more knowledge u may have bright future ahead.

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## Star Wars

Umair Nawaz said:


> Regarding 99 well the courage of our NLI is an example for itself where 4500 took 30,000 men. and still reached up to tiger hill which is the highest point in area. That alone speaks volumes again no SSG was involved there.

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## Umair Nawaz

Star Wars said:


>



Sure this is really Bullshit..........

Dont embarrass yourself even yr glory source wikipedia also say same.

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## Star Wars

Umair Nawaz said:


> Sure this is really Bullshit..........
> 
> Dont embarrass yourself even yr glory source wikipedia also say same.



Back up your claims or buzz of kiddo...

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## Umair Nawaz

Star Wars said:


> Back up your claims or buzz of kiddo...



Do yr own research kid and read the books of war veterans to know what happened...... Even a simple wikipedia read can u a little light....

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## Star Wars

Umair Nawaz said:


> Do yr own research kid and read the books of war veterans to know what happened...... Even a simple wikipedia read can u a little light....



Back...it...up ...with...a ...link
Your claim..you prove it...

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## Umair Nawaz

Star Wars said:


> Back...it...up ...with...a ...link
> Your claim..you prove it...



We have already been warned by nuclearpak to not post off topic comments here so im, sorry to disappoint u here.

Send me a PM.

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## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> Yup and still these wonder men have besieged yr entire Armed Forces and yr financial capital for good 72 hrs.
> 
> :



I am not surprised that you are not ashamed of deeds of your country. Rather you are proudly reminding the act of terror sponsered by your country as your victory. This proves my point of Madrasa education Wonder. Keep exposing yourself. People reads your comment. Certainly this will strengthen your country's impression which it already posses. Good work Keep it up.

And yes apply same logic for TTP who attacked ISI office and DI Jail liberated 250 TTP activist from DI jail last week. 

Also Make an analysis of increase in Terrorist in your country after Bombay incident.

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## dekho

HariPrasad said:


> I am not surprised that you are not ashamed of deeds of your country. Rather you are proudly reminding the act of terror sponsered by your country as your victory. This proves my point of Madrasa education Wonder. Keep exposing yourself. People reads your comment. Certainly this will strengthen your country's impression which it already posses. Good work Keep it up.
> 
> And yes apply same logic for TTP who attacked ISI office and liberated 250 TTP activist from DI jail last week.
> 
> Also Make an analysis of increase in Terrorist in your country after Bombay incident.



It is because of people like him I feel happy for the shi.t his country is in.

Lawless provinces, Muslim on Muslim violence, Taliban, Drones, Extra judicial executions, Daily blasts, Death tolls always in double digit.....It's good we separated them from us in 47.

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## klub

Umair Nawaz said:


> Dont make me laugh kiddo the bolded lines r taken from wikipedia's siachin conflict page.
> 
> Its even funnier to me that indian news papers also copy wikipedia's info.
> 
> MARCOS being best.........
> 
> Sure we all know that very well.



We control the heights, we dominate there, Bollocks to all .

BTW Marcos killed more M - e - Ms than RR , ask your local LeT recruiter regarding Wular lake. They will tell you about the crocs that feed on them.

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## klub

Here's RR Carl Gustav MKIII







And a badass pic.

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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> After reading yr post all i can do this and this  and again this
> 
> Who r u a comic master??
> 
> Comparing A Battle with Covert militant attacks is best u can come up with?
> 
> The reason u won that battle was because of air support and questionable tactics used by field commander of Army in that area.
> 
> We did not had air support in that battle.
> 
> Now as u have shared this let me tell u abt our Soldiers like Major Shabbir Sharif Shaheed and Sepoy Lalak jan Of NLI in the defence of Tiger Hill etc etc. Read about the Defence of Lahore, Battle of Chawinda which is called the second largest tank battle of human history in 65 and Battle of Chamb in 65. Also the reason we surrendered in 71 was because of no air support+navy and Supplies because u had blocked us and we had to fight the terrorists of Bengal too in one end and indian forces in other end.
> 
> In the end if u listen to Gen Niazi speech while surrendering he clearly said that there was no use of keep on fighting when specially the locals have turned against u hence surrender is better option in this scenario.
> 
> Regarding 99 well the courage of our NLI is an example for itself where 4500 took 30,000 men. and still reached up to tiger hill which is the highest point in area. That alone speaks volumes again no SSG was involved there.
> 
> Our PM is bull **** he is merely taking out his personal frustrations here not talking abt the facts. Even we people of Pakistan dont believe him and yr believing him sitting in outside Pakistan.
> 
> But i thought we were discussing the SFs here not the battle or were we?
> 
> 
> Regarding these attacks i have already cleared u enough that the damage which was bound to have happen has already happened there was no point in delaying it now which according to u was 59 hrs but we believe it took u 72 hrs. In that op u also had heli support too.
> 
> Still just 44 minutes and 59 hrs is a very crazy difference.
> 
> Like i said we didnt had intel on that if it were we would have not allowed them to have done the damage which they already did.
> 
> Still this shows who better prepared to face any type of hostilities in any given time with out even being alert.
> 
> Any ways bro i know u have a little knowledge specially after reading this post of yrs and honestly i thought we were having a fruitful discussion. But u exposed yr self when u had started comparing battles with XYZ covert militant ops.In the past indians i have meet in pdf r just stupid people who seem to believe what they read or hear in TV and News papers/internet.
> 
> Sorry dude but im not anymore interested in and more conversations with u hand also nuclearpak has also warned to not post off topic posts.
> 
> But remember that 65,71,99 was in last century but history shows that the successful nations r those who live in today not in past.
> 
> Any how goodbye friend. It was nice talking to u and u have good analytical power as i can see before u started comparing the battles and these SF ops.
> 
> Keep on gaining more knowledge u may have bright future ahead.






i wasn't comparing a conventional war. i was comparing the courage of both armys. 
rest of things you said are just junk. navy blocked is part of war and the problem created in BD and the handling the problem makes people of east pakistan turn against you. the generals lacks quality that is why they use military action against political problems. 

SSG were in kargil war. musharraf himself agreed this after SHAHID AZIZ wrote a book on kargil. SHAHID AZIZ also said that the causality were over 2000. these things are agreed by your ret. military commanders, your denial will not make any sense.
there are many advantages to an attacking country(pakistan) over a india, pakistan was the first one who attacked that means pakistan was fully prepared and also have better equipment than india during both 1965 and 1971. but pakistan failed because its low quality soldiers and low morale of soldiers of pakistan. for a mountain warfare an attacking force need 1:3 superiority, if the defending force is on higher ground then the attacking force need 1:5 superiority over the enemy. in kargil war india cannot deployed more than division of troops at a time because the highway was on continuous artillery shelling. causality was high because india was in the valley and and under artillery attack. 

any way, as nuclearpak said keep this thread about indian special forces. this is the last discussion on this topic

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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> i wasn't comparing a conventional war. i was comparing the courage of both armys.
> rest of things you said are just junk. navy blocked is part of war and the problem created in BD and the handling the problem makes people of east pakistan turn against you. the generals lacks quality that is why they use military action against political problems.
> 
> SSG were in kargil war. musharraf himself agreed this after SHAHID AZIZ wrote a book on kargil. SHAHID AZIZ also said that the causality were over 2000. these things are agreed by your ret. military commanders, your denial will not make any sense.
> there are many advantages to an attacking country(pakistan) over a india, pakistan was the first one who attacked that means pakistan was fully prepared and also have better equipment than india during both 1965 and 1971. but pakistan failed because its low quality soldiers and low morale of soldiers of pakistan. for a mountain warfare an attacking force need 1:3 superiority, if the defending force is on higher ground then the attacking force need 1:5 superiority over the enemy. in kargil war india cannot deployed more than division of troops at a time because the highway was on continuous artillery shelling. causality was high because india was in the valley and and under artillery attack.
> 
> any way, as nuclearpak said keep this thread about indian special forces. this is the last discussion on this topic





What u r comparing r Just apples with oranges, again in kargil u had air support too we didnt had that. Shahid Aziz n co r just individuals and the official statements matter inm this case. Here is something yr own General who was field commander Has to say abt it.






Now its upto u to take the trouble of convening him........

Again he and Gen Aziz r just individuals their say dont matter in the end because do accept that we had lost battle.

Also let me tell u that Covert ops and actual battlefied scenarios r way off target to be compared with.

Only a novice can do what even in number of soldiers died and courage comparisons.

In a covert ops its being stealthy and surprising the enemy is something which matters in the end.

In wars and other stuff u always have protections of bunkers, Unlimited supply in Ammo reserves on both sides+ no shortage in Air support+ Naval Support and fighting equipment too but in covert militant style ops u the attacking party dont have such leverages but defending party have!!!

So the defending party logically must have to come in the upperhand in the end of the day. Its more about How early the defending party can do her job and prevent further damage. In delaying such ops, well u will be victorious in this sense that u were able to wipe them out but the attackers will achieve their goal, which is to cause as much damage as possible before dying. 

In the war the rule is simple gain enemy grounds or cripple their forces, while defenders goals r to defend yr positions against the enemy no matter what they through at u.

In wars, well u will be stupid to believe that Pakistan had started them because we were nvr in an advantageous position to do so. And in 99 the conflict was in response of Siachin invasion from yr arm,ed forces. If there was no siachin there had been no Kargil Saga.

Bur like i said before ur just comparing wars with ops. and that too of 20th century. Things r different now and now nobody can attack someone with that power anymore because of Nukes.....

Covert Military Style Ops r the new age of modern warfare.

Any how goodbye friend. It was nice talking to u and u have good analytical power



klub said:


> We control the heights, we dominate there, Bollocks to all .
> 
> BTW Marcos killed more M - e - Ms than RR , ask your local LeT recruiter regarding Wular lake. They will tell you about the crocs that feed on them.



Obviously u do my argument nvr like that.

Yeah right we all saw their greatness in Mumbai saga.

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## Umair Nawaz

HariPrasad said:


> I am not surprised that you are not ashamed of deeds of your country. Rather you are proudly reminding the act of terror sponsered by your country as your victory. This proves my point of Madrasa education Wonder. Keep exposing yourself. People reads your comment. Certainly this will strengthen your country's impression which it already posses. Good work Keep it up.
> 
> And yes apply same logic for TTP who attacked ISI office and DI Jail liberated 250 TTP activist from DI jail last week.
> 
> Also Make an analysis of increase in Terrorist in your country after Bombay incident.



R u ashamed of yr deeds in Kashmir? in Pakistan and In Srilanka, Nepal and Burma?

R u ashamed of how u stabbed in our back in 71? when we were merely fighting civil war?

In the otherside we had not attacked u in 62 on the eve of China india battle.

R u ashamed of yr Siachin invasion?

Certainly ur not so why should we be?

Ask ur self.


----------



## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> R u ashamed of yr deeds in Kashmir? in Pakistan and In Srilanka, Nepal and Burma?
> 
> R u ashamed of how u stabbed in our back in 71? when we were merely fighting civil war?
> 
> In the otherside we had not attacked u in 62 on the eve of China india battle.
> 
> R u ashamed of yr Siachin invasion?
> 
> Certainly ur not so why should we be?
> 
> Ask ur self.



No we are not. We are spending 7 times per capita amount in Kashmir than we spend in other part of India. We gave them right to elect their government from Day 1. What about Pakistan? When did first election held in Pakistan O Kashmir? What is there to be ashamed in Srilanka, Nepal and Burma? We help them a lot. 5 million Nepalis earning their livelihood in India. We helped Shrilanka to overcome Terrorism. Border of Burma and India is open. we have helped them in many Infrastructure projects. Even we gave your country 2000 MN Rs at the time when your country was hit by earthquake. 

When east Pakistan Got majority in election, west Pakistanis denied them the right to form the Government. West Pakistan army went to East Pakistan and started looting and Rapping people. Refugees flooded into India. Than your army attacked India. What else should we should have done? Support West Pakistani army to loot East Pakistan?

You attacked us 4 time since 1947. You attacked us in 1965. What if you did not attacked us in 1962? If you would have attacked us, you would have met same fate you met in all four wars. 

You attacked and capture K2 cliff. Your army still celibates it You attacked Kargil. What if we Invaded siachin? It was never a part of Pakistan.

So fine you loose on diplomatic front and war so that gives you right to propagate terrorism and Kill innocent people? But the problem is that you did even succeed in that also. That too backfire on you. More that 25 people died in terrorism in your country against one person die in India. 

Remember the innocent people who died in your country before justifying terrorism.

Ask yourself.

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## me_itsme

Guys stop ruining the freaking thread. Why do you even argue with him?

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## klub

Umair Nawaz said:


> What u r comparing r Just apples with oranges, again in kargil u had air support too we didnt had that. Shahid Aziz n co r just individuals and the official statements matter inm this case. Here is something yr own General who was field commander Has to say abt it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now its upto u to take the trouble of convening him........
> 
> Again he and Gen Aziz r just individuals their say dont matter in the end because do accept that we had lost battle.
> 
> Also let me tell u that Covert ops and actual battlefied scenarios r way off target to be compared with.
> 
> Only a novice can do what even in number of soldiers died and courage comparisons.
> 
> In a covert ops its being stealthy and surprising the enemy is something which matters in the end.
> 
> In wars and other stuff u always have protections of bunkers, Unlimited supply in Ammo reserves on both sides+ no shortage in Air support+ Naval Support and fighting equipment too but in covert militant style ops u the attacking party dont have such leverages but defending party have!!!
> 
> So the defending party logically must have to come in the upperhand in the end of the day. Its more about How early the defending party can do her job and prevent further damage. In delaying such ops, well u will be victorious in this sense that u were able to wipe them out but the attackers will achieve their goal, which is to cause as much damage as possible before dying.
> 
> In the war the rule is simple gain enemy grounds or cripple their forces, while defenders goals r to defend yr positions against the enemy no matter what they through at u.
> 
> In wars, well u will be stupid to believe that Pakistan had started them because we were nvr in an advantageous position to do so. And in 99 the conflict was in response of Siachin invasion from yr arm,ed forces. If there was no siachin there had been no Kargil Saga.
> 
> Bur like i said before ur just comparing wars with ops. and that too of 20th century. Things r different now and now nobody can attack someone with that power anymore because of Nukes.....
> 
> Covert Military Style Ops r the new age of modern warfare.
> 
> Any how goodbye friend. It was nice talking to u and u have good analytical power
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously u do my argument nvr like that.
> 
> Yeah right we all saw their greatness in Mumbai saga.




And that why these scum rule karachi :

Read Taliban.

Taliban in Karachi: the real story - DAWN.COM

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## RPK



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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


>



Not SF- CRPF and regulars at that.

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## Umair Nawaz

klub said:


> And that why these scum rule karachi :
> 
> Read Taliban.
> 
> Taliban in Karachi: the real story - DAWN.COM


and yr point is??

Do u even know what we r talking about?

And dont get me started abt the areas in which yr Gov has no hold at all...... Even in the Stronghold of Sheiv Sehna in Mumbai and Puna....



HariPrasad said:


> No we are not..



Simple u r not so not r we.


Yr per capita and others r just jokes and propaganda.....We all know that is happening in Indian Occupied kashmir


----------



## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> and yr point is??
> 
> Do u even know what we r talking about?
> 
> And dont get me started abt the areas in which yr Gov has no hold at all...... Even in the Stronghold of Sheiv Sehna in Mumbai and Puna....
> 
> 
> 
> Simple u r not so not r we.
> 
> 
> Yr per capita and others r just jokes and propaganda.....We all know that is happening in Indian Occupied kashmir



Sheiv Sehna is a political party, part of BJP main opposition party . speak only if you know about it.

what you know about j&k? insurgency is started by pakistan and isi in late 80s not by the civilians in kashmir. if you are so humanitarian then go and join BLA who want independence from pakistan and fighting for it from 1947.


----------



## special

HariPrasad said:


> No we are not. We are spending 7 times per capita amount in Kashmir than we spend in other part of India. We gave them right to elect their government from Day 1. What about Pakistan? When did first election held in Pakistan O Kashmir? What is there to be ashamed in Srilanka, Nepal and Burma? We help them a lot. 5 million Nepalis earning their livelihood in India. We helped Shrilanka to overcome Terrorism. Border of Burma and India is open. we have helped them in many Infrastructure projects. Even we gave your country 2000 MN Rs at the time when your country was hit by earthquake.
> 
> When east Pakistan Got majority in election, west Pakistanis denied them the right to form the Government. West Pakistan army went to East Pakistan and started looting and Rapping people. Refugees flooded into India. Than your army attacked India. What else should we should have done? Support West Pakistani army to loot East Pakistan?
> 
> You attacked us 4 time since 1947. You attacked us in 1965. What if you did not attacked us in 1962? If you would have attacked us, you would have met same fate you met in all four wars.
> 
> You attacked and capture K2 cliff. Your army still celibates it You attacked Kargil. What if we Invaded siachin? It was never a part of Pakistan.
> 
> So fine you loose on diplomatic front and war so that gives you right to propagate terrorism and Kill innocent people? But the problem is that you did even succeed in that also. That too backfire on you. More that 25 people died in terrorism in your country against one person die in India.
> 
> Remember the innocent people who died in your country before justifying terrorism.
> 
> Ask yourself.



Shahid Aziz was the chief of ISI's Analysis wing, he had conducted a study about kargil war, he is not an ordinary person.
some military commanders of pakistan army also agree with Shahid Aziz about kargil war. only one denied is musharaf.


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Not SF- CRPF and regulars at that.



yes it is the pic from CIAJW school of CRPF


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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> Sheiv Sehna is a political party, part of BJP main opposition party . speak only if you know about it.
> 
> what you know about j&k? insurgency is started by pakistan and isi in late 80s not by the civilians in kashmir. if you are so humanitarian then go and join BLA who want independence from pakistan and fighting for it from 1947.





Kid dont embarrass yrself here just because i called u a better person doesnt mean u keep on exposing yr cheap rants everywhere.

If Yr Hindu terrorist organizations r political then we can say same abt Taliban too who were ruling Afg before Americans arrive.


A terrorist is a terrorist political or not.

And Kiddo just Think before u talk because the person yr talking abt is a Azad Kashmiri whose ancestors fought for liberation of Kashmir.

We all r watching what is happening in right now as we speak also and with these rough situations we r in there is no way we can do these things in there.

Also the area is part of Pakistan and what we had been doing before r total legitimate as we r merely trying to liberate our homeland from tyrants........

If what we r doing is wrong then the Allied Support and help in WWII with Partisans is also illegal against Third Reich.....

Which obviously is not neither is accepted wrong by every int. community.

So u all can cry elsewhere but in Pak Military Forum we will not appreciate this attitude.


----------



## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> Shahid Aziz was the chief of ISI's Analysis wing, he had conducted a study about kargil war, he is not an ordinary person.
> some military commanders of pakistan army also agree with Shahid Aziz about kargil war. only one denied is musharaf.





who told u he was commander of ISI analysis wing??

These things r kept very secret even the bureaucracy of Pakistan dont know abt it only the DG ISI knows.

And u sitting in our Enemy Country know it


Gen Aziz was not even part of the 4 core Generals who made such a plane in 99.

Like i said he is an individual just like Gen Kishan Pal who even was field Commander in conflict from indian side hence his say contains more credibility. But still i showed u his video because we Officially accept it as our defeat!!!

This is the difference b/w Official Word and individual's Words. And if there r few people who believe that Gen Aziz is right then so r few people in yr country who believe that Kishan Pal is right too.

We live in such an age what people can do down to the most cheapest ways to sell their books or gain publicity.

Nothing to be concerned for.


----------



## HariPrasad

Umair Nawaz said:


> and yr point is??
> 
> Do u even know what we r talking about?
> 
> And dont get me started abt the areas in which yr Gov has no hold at all...... Even in the Stronghold of Sheiv Sehna in Mumbai and Puna....
> 
> 
> 
> Simple u r not so not r we.
> 
> 
> Yr per capita and others r just jokes and propaganda.....We all know that is happening in Indian Occupied kashmir



Yes we know that facts and figures are always Joke for the people like You. That is why a person like you can take pride in shameful deeds of Killing the Innocent civilians. 

You ignored all my question.

Now troll happily & expose yourself.


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## Abingdonboy



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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> who told u he was commander of ISI analysis wing??
> 
> These things r kept very secret even the bureaucracy of Pakistan dont know abt it only the DG ISI knows.
> 
> And u sitting in our Enemy Country know it
> 
> 
> Gen Aziz was not even part of the 4 core Generals who made such a plane in 99.
> 
> Like i said he is an individual just like Gen Kishan Pal who even was field Commander in conflict from indian side hence his say contains more credibility. But still i showed u his video because we Officially accept it as our defeat!!!
> 
> This is the difference b/w Official Word and individual's Words. And if there r few people who believe that Gen Aziz is right then so r few people in yr country who believe that Kishan Pal is right too.
> 
> We live in such an age what people can do down to the most cheapest ways to sell their books or gain publicity.
> 
> Nothing to be concerned for.



he himself tell that he was the commander in isi's analysis wing .
watch this video.


----------



## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> Kid dont embarrass yrself here just because i called u a better person doesnt mean u keep on exposing yr cheap rants everywhere.
> 
> If Yr Hindu terrorist organizations r political then we can say same abt Taliban too who were ruling Afg before Americans arrive.
> 
> 
> A terrorist is a terrorist political or not.
> 
> And Kiddo just Think before u talk because the person yr talking abt is a Azad Kashmiri whose ancestors fought for liberation of Kashmir.
> 
> We all r watching what is happening in right now as we speak also and with these rough situations we r in there is no way we can do these things in there.
> 
> Also the area is part of Pakistan and what we had been doing before r total legitimate as we r merely trying to liberate our homeland from tyrants........
> 
> If what we r doing is wrong then the Allied Support and help in WWII with Partisans is also illegal against Third Reich.....
> 
> Which obviously is not neither is accepted wrong by every int. community.
> 
> So u all can cry elsewhere but in Pak Military Forum we will not appreciate this attitude.



Shiv Sena - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and don't compare shiv sena with taliban. it is not my concern if you don't understand the difference between terrorist group and political party.


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## Abingdonboy

NSG, SRG:

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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> Shiv Sena - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> and don't compare shiv sena with taliban. it is not my concern if you don't understand the difference between terrorist group and political party.



Wikipedia

Seriously u indians need to change yr attitude if u want better relations with us and wants us to take actions against yr terrorists then u need to eliminate our terrorists yr society first.
Dont try to make us a fool.
Political or no makes no difference.

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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> he himself tell that he was the commander in isi's analysis wing .
> watch this video.



Oh meri jan what r u a teenager?

I told u that the intel services and ranks in it r kept very secret nobody knows abt them or can u tell me who is commander of yr intel. services analytical wing???

No u cant even if ur a PM u still might not be knowing, thats how things r so secretive abt them.

Just i had showed u a video of indian media of Lt Gen Pal so have u showed me a video of him from our media. 

But like i said before people can sometimes go down into very cheap levels so confidently specially when they know because of secrecy of matters nobody will debug their claims. U dont see or aspect DG ISI to react and give a statement to burst his claims!!!!

In the End he is trying to sell his book by sensationalizing it and other Kishan Pal is saying that to gain Publicity. 

Thats all.

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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> Wikipedia
> 
> Seriously u indians need to change yr attitude if u want better relations with us and wants us to take actions against yr terrorists then u need to eliminate our terrorists yr society first.
> Dont try to make us a fool.
> Political or no makes no difference.


Equating the Shiv Sena to the Taliban or terrorists is utterly absurd pal. I detest the Shiv Sena lot as much as anyone can but I'm not going to claim they are terrorists. They contest elections and are a DEMOCRATIC PARTY.


The case of Pakistan and the Taliban is VERY different, sometimes there just aren't any parallels between the two nations.


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## Umair Nawaz

HariPrasad said:


> Yes we know that facts and figures are always Joke for the people like You. That is why a person like you can take pride in shameful deeds of Killing the Innocent civilians.
> 
> You ignored all my question.
> 
> Now troll happily & expose yourself.



LOL Facts Ehhh!!!!

Kiddo what i had posted in reply to u were also facts and i will certainly ignore a person who thinks Pakistan had Occupied even K-2 As well

That was most epic.

So if u mean this trolling then be it.

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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> Equating the Shiv Sena to the Taliban or terrorists is utterly absurd pal. I detest the Shiv Sena lot as much as anyone can but I'm not going to claim they are terrorists. They contest elections and are a DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
> 
> 
> The case of Pakistan and the Taliban is VERY different, sometimes there just aren't any parallels between the two nations.



Oho Kya Baat ha aj to barry barry log mery post a reply kr rahy hain.

i Feel honored.

I made myself clear, democracy or no democracy none matters as far as we r concern. There r no good terrorist or bad terrorist. 

Just like yr country has always been saying.

I made myself clear u take down our terrorists then we take yrs.

that includes all the terrorist organizations with in india ie Shev Sehna, VHP, Bajrangdali, RSS, BJP etc etc

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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> Oho Kya Baat ha aj to barry barry log mery post a reply kr rahy hain.
> 
> i Feel honored.
> 
> I made myself clear, democracy or no democracy none matters as far as we r concern. There r no good terrorist or bad terrorist.
> 
> Just like yr country has always been saying.
> 
> I made myself clear u take down our terrorists then we take yrs.
> 
> that includes all the terrorist organizations with in india ie Shev Sehna, VHP, Bajrangdali, RSS, BJP etc etc


I see, this is the latest defence by the Pakistani state is it? Trying to equate legitimate political parities in India to terrosit groups like TTP and LeT? This is a pathetic assertion. 


Yes there are Hindu extremists but they have no links to established political parties in India and are "lone wolfs". This is not the case in Pakistan.


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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> I see, this is the latest defence by the Pakistani state is it? Trying to equate legitimate political parities in India to terrosit groups like TTP and LeT? This is a pathetic assertion.
> 
> 
> Yes there are Hindu extremists but they have no links to established political parties in India and are "lone wolfs". This is not the case in Pakistan.



 Kiddo

U want us to take actions against the one u r only concern from ie LeT etc.

And the way yr defending these terrorists who r involved in Muslim blood in yr country+harassment of our National and the Muder of 68 Pakistanis in Samjhota Express. And still u want to call them Cute little angels

Kiddo i have made myself clear u take our terrorist first then we take yours, simple.

The way we see it its rather a new way of Indian Defense in the things which they dont want to happen in their country then they put these Terrorists forward to do their dirty work for them under the shadow of ''democracy''.

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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> Kiddo
> 
> U want us to take actions against the one u r only concern from ie LeT etc.
> 
> And the way yr defending these terrorists who r involved in Muslim blood in yr country+harassment of our National and the Muder of 68 Pakistanis in Samjhota Express. And still u want to call them Cute little angels
> 
> Kiddo i have made myself clear u take our terrorist first then we take yours, simple.
> 
> The way we see it its rather a new way of Indian Defense in the things which they dont want to happen in their country then they put these Terrorists forward to do their dirty work for them under the shadow of ''democracy''.



India IS and WILL "take care of its business" regardless of their religion, colour, creed, caste etc. 


Until you have Indian terror camps sitting in J&K launching infiltration attempts into "Azad" Kashmir with the IA providing covering fire for these groups- I'd suggest you keep the analogies to a minimum.


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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> India IS and WILL "take care of its business" regardless of their religion, colour, creed, caste etc.
> 
> 
> Until you have Indian terror camps sitting in J&K launching infiltration attempts into "Azad" Kashmir with the IA providing covering fire for these groups- I'd suggest you keep the analogies to a minimum.



Same way Pakistan will take care of her business like we r doing also.

Same way until u have RSS camps, Shev Sehna Strongholds., BJP,Bajrang Dali etc etc!!!!!!........ U take our terrorist we take yrs.

Nobody gives cover to anyone here its just yr media say and we dont believe in yr media it has no credibility in our Country. Heck even they r blaming the Submarine incident on us im talking abt Times Now. And what happening in Kashmir right now as we speak shows that its u who is problem and just blaming yr ills on us wont do any good for u. U should be ashamed that even today yr blaming yr ills on us when Kashmir is burning and yr security forces r using bullets on un-arm Civilians under the shdow of calling themselves as Pakistani terrorists or even pro pakistanis.

But the way u people r protecting the RSS and Co where yr former Armymen do terrorist activities like Col Prohit Capt Mohan Bhagat who is leader of RSS and still after Samjhoota Express u havnt took action against them tells me that there is other way around.


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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> Same way Pakistan will take care of her business like we r doing also.
> 
> Same way until u have RSS camps, Shev Sehna Strongholds., BJP,Bajrang Dali etc etc!!!!!!........ U take our terrorist we take yrs.
> 
> Nobody gives cover to anyone here its just yr media say and we dont believe in yr media it has no credibility in our Country. Heck even they r blaming the Submarine incident on us im talking abt Times Now. And what happening in Kashmir right now as we speak shows that its u who is problem and just blaming yr ills on us wont do any good for u. U should be ashamed that even today yr blaming yr ills on us when Kashmir is burning and yr security forces r using bullets on un-arm Civilians under the shdow of calling themselves as Pakistani terrorists or even pro pakistanis.
> 
> But the way u people r protecting the RSS and Co where yr former Armymen do terrorist activities like Col Prohit Capt Mohan Bhagat who is leader of RSS and still after Samjhoota Express u havnt took action against them tells me that there is other way around.



I'm bored. Talk about Indian SFs or GTFO.


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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm bored. Talk about Indian SFs or GTFO.



Yeah u should be because u have ran out of ammo.



anyrandom said:


> What an utter bigot this nawaz guy is!
> 
> He is following a very old tactics by the pakistanis......that is to legitimize or atleast decriminalize terror emanating from pakistan by equalizing it with yahuds/jews,hindus/bjp or americans.
> But the rest of the world doesnt buy this bullsh*t leaving aside few lefty morons in india and elsewhere.
> 
> No matter however you criticize shiv sena or ram sena but they don't have an 'yindoo' army laced with rpg,machine guns,suicide belts etc and they don't kill random civilians.
> 
> I know pakistanis have suffered terrorism so much.....i mean just tooooooo much.....look at them poor guys...being killed everyday,everyminute by their 'mujahid' brothers. And the funny thing is they were once funded by ISI


post reported........ see u in hell.
@Jungibaaz


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## Umair Nawaz

anyrandom said:


> yeah i know....typical habit of running to usa or china..i get it



Post reported again kiddo. this is Pakistani Forum we have strict rules here its not yr propaganda forum or news paper.


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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> Yeah u should be because u have ran out of ammo.
> 
> 
> post reported........ see u in hell.
> @Jungibaaz



as your politicians and military you won't accept the fact no mater how much evidence we provided you.


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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> as your politicians and military you won't accept the fact no mater how much evidence we provided you.



U know the feeling is mutual.


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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG, SRG:



the place shown in this figure is NSG's training center. the VIP protection training is given to both SRG and SAG.

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## special

Umair Nawaz said:


> Same way Pakistan will take care of her business like we r doing also.
> 
> Same way until u have RSS camps, Shev Sehna Strongholds., BJP,Bajrang Dali etc etc!!!!!!........ U take our terrorist we take yrs.
> 
> Nobody gives cover to anyone here its just yr media say and we dont believe in yr media it has no credibility in our Country. Heck even they r blaming the Submarine incident on us im talking abt Times Now. And what happening in Kashmir right now as we speak shows that its u who is problem and just blaming yr ills on us wont do any good for u. U should be ashamed that even today yr blaming yr ills on us when Kashmir is burning and yr security forces r using bullets on un-arm Civilians under the shdow of calling themselves as Pakistani terrorists or even pro pakistanis.
> 
> But the way u people r protecting the RSS and Co where yr former Armymen do terrorist activities like Col Prohit Capt Mohan Bhagat who is leader of RSS and still after Samjhoota Express u havnt took action against them tells me that there is other way around.



RSS, BJP is not doing anything to pakistan, terror camps across the border is seeking a chance to spread terrorism in india and it is india's business to stop them. you better talk about people of Baluchistan rather than speaking about people of india.



Umair Nawaz said:


> U know the feeling is mutual.



it is not. pakistan's nature of dental is famous all around the world, particularly in western countres

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## Umair Nawaz

special said:


> RSS, BJP is not doing anything to pakistan, terror camps across the border is seeking a chance to spread terrorism in india and it is india's business to stop them. you better talk about people of Baluchistan rather than speaking about people of india.
> 
> 
> 
> it is not. pakistan's nature of dental is famous all around the world, particularly in western countres



LOL First answer me how old r u??
RSS and BJP doing nothing 

Were u alive in 2006 or yr born now?

Kiddo yr even more extraordinary then INDIC.



Regarding the last line.... Let me give u a recap because u indians suffer a short term memory loss.

u wrote in post#2706...''as your politicians and military you won't accept the fact no mater how much evidence we provided you.''

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-181.html#ixzz2byHrZULd

then i replied u in post#2707....''U know the feeling is mutual''.

Then u come up with most Comical reply ever.....

If u look at history there was no credibility of indians too from 47 to 70s in the same western countries.Heck they used to even call Gandhi a political terrorist.

Its about Interests(as now they have business interests to save their crippling economies before it was defeating communism) when it comes to western countries. Following truth has nvr been their priority.




Welcome to the 21st century.


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## Abingdonboy

Hey guys check this out, from a couple of days ago at a dress Rehersal for I-Day:






SPG are using the standard telescopic sight on their FN2000s whereas in the past they had used EO TECH red *** sights for their FN2000s. I wonder what prompted the change?

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## Aka123




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## Abingdonboy

NSG at 1.37:

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## Abingdonboy

SPG:







Counter Assualt Team (CAT):

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

GARUDs during Uttrakhand rescue ops:

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## Pak_Sher

Abingdonboy said:


> GARUDs during Uttrakhand rescue ops:



Are these guys vegetarians?

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## Bhai Zakir

Pak_Sher said:


> Are these guys vegetarians?



It doesn't matter if they eat vegee, meat or something else what matters is the fact that they are enemy eater

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## Peshwa

Pak_Sher said:


> Are these guys vegetarians?



You do know that from a nutritional perspective, one can get all the same nutrients and more from a vegetarian diet as a non-veg diet..I dont know why some of you have this misconception about vegetarianism...

Just to give you an example...Arian Foster Top Running Back for The Houston Texans went vegan and since then has become stronger and faster in his running game...and mind you, this was a conscious choice and he himself credits his improved performance to this one particular change

I suggest you read up on this...

PS: Im a hardcore meat eater, but do understand the importance of moving to a vegetarian diet which might happen in the later years of my life

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## Abingdonboy

Pak_Sher said:


> Are these guys vegetarians?



Who knows? Who cares? They are for sure trained in Survival so will eat whatever they need to survive and fight if that includes snakes and scorpions-so be it.


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## kenyannoobie

I'm glad this thread is back on track. I'm not derailing it but will say this: I find it disappointing almost 70 years after Partition both sides still parrot the Rothschild inspired narratives of the Raj era. Muslim/Hindu blah,blah,blah...... haven't you figured it out yet? *You were never enemies apart from the scripted roles written by the Brits which you're all still too happy to play out-don't you get it?* Truly,whose battles are you fighting? You actually have more in common than most other neighbours.

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## Abingdonboy

kenyannoobie said:


> I'm glad this thread is back on track. I'm not derailing it but will say this: I find it disappointing almost 70 years after Partition both sides still parrot the Rothschild inspired narratives of the Raj era. Muslim/Hindu blah,blah,blah...... haven't you figured it out yet? *You were never enemies apart from the scripted roles written by the Brits which you're all still too happy to play out-don't you get it?* Truly,whose battles are you fighting? You actually have more in common than most other neighbours.


This is far too simplistic. It's not about Hindu vs Muslim- In India Indians and Muslims live together in peace- on the whole. It is about Pakistan vs India and this is a much more complex puzzle to solve. The hatred runs deep and only one side can be said to see it as a religious conflict.

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## SwatCat

Pak_Sher said:


> Are these guys vegetarians?



Seems you are obsessed by those guys.


----------



## Tshering22

kenyannoobie said:


> I'm glad this thread is back on track. I'm not derailing it but will say this: I find it disappointing almost 70 years after Partition both sides still parrot the Rothschild inspired narratives of the Raj era. Muslim/Hindu blah,blah,blah...... haven't you figured it out yet? *You were never enemies apart from the scripted roles written by the Brits which you're all still too happy to play out-don't you get it?* Truly,whose battles are you fighting? You actually have more in common than most other neighbours.



You clearly don't know the Indian history don't you?

Well step aside your socialist inhibitions of self-shame and go into the history before the Europeans stepped into the country.

Perhaps it will open your eyes. 

You're being too simplistic and idealistic.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> GARUDs during Uttrakhand rescue ops:



According to NDTV these are technicians..how dare you call them SF?

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> According to NDTV these are technicians..how dare you call the SF?




I know- techs and of BRO!!!

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> According to NDTV these are technicians..how dare you call the SF?



they are SF. look at them. they are also shown in 'times now' and 'headlines today'.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG, SRG:



Any idea where the trainer is from?



special said:


> they are SF. look at them. they are also shown in 'times now' and 'headlines today'.



Ufffff...Sarcasm my friend sarcasm!!


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Any idea where the trainer is from?
> 
> 
> !


They are French, I'll find out which unit specifically- just give me a moment

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ufffff...Sarcasm my friend sarcasm!!



welcome back bro, i was just surprised to see you said that. in IAF only guards are allowed wear these dress during duty time.



Abingdonboy said:


> They are French, I'll find out which unit specifically- just give me a moment



are you sure, bro? NSG get training from Israel and Germany. recently got training from FBI too. did they got training from France.

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> how do you know bro? NSG got training from Israel and Germany. recently got training from FBI too.


The NSG train with the Israelis, Americans, Germans, Russians, Brazilians and French. 

These guys are from Service de Protection des Hautes Personnalités (SPHP) although post-2009 the NSG has dramatically increased training with foreign units and specifically GIGN and GSG-9.

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## Mercenary

Indian Special Forces have no muscles

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> welcome back bro, i was just surprised to see you said that. in IAF only guards are allowed wear these dress during duty time.
> 
> .



Not just that but that IAF officer clearly has the SF tab on his fatigues and the other guys' t-shirts have "SPECIAL FORCES" written over the Garud emblem on the front.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR do you know anything about cross training between indian military special forces and NSG? as you have good contacts in army.


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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> The NSG train with the Israelis, Americans, Germans, Russians, Brazilians and French.
> 
> These guys are from Service de Protection des Hautes Personnalités (SPHP) although post-2009 the NSG has dramatically increased training with foreign units and specifically GIGN and GSG-9.



bro, i'm surprised, how do you get these informations?


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> COLDHEARTED AVIATOR do you know anything about cross training between indian military special forces and NSG? as you have good contacts in army.


All three Indian SFs cross train with NSG and each other. 


special said:


> bro, i'm surprised, how do you get these informations?


From a source of mine who is privy to such info from time to time  


What are you surprised by though?

+ @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR -great to have back on here bro!!


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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> What are you surprised by though?



despite living in UK you get these information.


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> despite living in UK you get these information.



Well some of my sources are in the UK and I also have friends/sources in India who I speak to from time to time


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## Muradk

Mercenary said:


> Indian Special Forces have no muscles



Special Forces are not suppose to have muscles. They are suppose to be quick, fast and finish the job before anyone knows.

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Well some of my sources are in the UK and I also have friends/sources in India who I speak to from time to time



nice, are u sure that NSG cross train with marcos and army SF? because everybody in the armed forces complain about the lack of coordination and cross training between different units.


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## Koovie

Mercenary said:


> Indian Special Forces have no muscles



Yet another kiddo who watches too many movies and plays too much Call of Duty ?


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> nice, are u sure that NSG cross train with marcos and army SF? because everybody in the armed forces complain about the lack of coordination and cross training between different units.



100% sure bro! But I have no idea what kind of scale we are looking at or the level of cross training. But I know it happens.


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## special

somebody pls translate this.
all i know is this is a joint training of marcos, para commandos and garuds


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## Srinivas

Muradk said:


> Special Forces are not suppose to have muscles. They are suppose to be quick, fast and finish the job before anyone knows.



Exactly , these guys are superfit and super fit do not mean having muscles.


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## Sergi

special said:


> nice, are u sure that NSG cross train with marcos and army SF? because everybody in the armed forces complain about the lack of coordination and cross training between different units.



Lack of coordination is talked about Operational utilities. And thats due to different command structure of different SFs and NOT due to cross training. Hopefully a unified command for all SF will provide a solution for that.


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## Abingdonboy

Mercenary said:


> Indian Special Forces have no muscles



Who doesn't?

These guys:




Abingdonboy said:


> GARUDs during Uttrakhand rescue ops:




These guys?!!




Abingdonboy said:


> NSG 2010/11, of Mumbai Hub:



Either way the witness of the Indian SFs will leave you in awe. You try doing a 40-40 (40 KMs with 40kg run) daily or 70-70 (70 km with 70KG) on a weekly basis.


----------



## special

Sergi said:


> Lack of coordination is talked about Operational utilities. And thats due to different command structure of different SFs and NOT due to cross training. Hopefully a unified command for all SF will provide a solution for that.



what do you think, unified command of current plan will solve all the problems? you know, NSG is under Ministry of Home Affairs, marcos, para commandos and guards are under defence minister SFF is under PM. grouping all this units under single command will not solve all this problems. 

Ministry of Home Affairs is not willing to give NSG to military special forces commands. NSG is headed by an IPS officer who don't know anything about special operations. the current plan of SO command is not that good. it will be excellent if they prefer a command structure like US Special operation command.


----------



## Sergi

special said:


> what do you think, unified command of current plan will solve all the problems? you know, NSG is under Ministry of Home Affairs, marcos, para commandos and guards are under defence minister SFF is under PM. grouping all this units under single command will not solve all this problems.
> 
> Ministry of Home Affairs is not willing to give NSG to military special forces commands. NSG is headed by an IPS officer who don't know anything about special operations. the current plan of SO command is not that good. it will be excellent if they prefer a command structure like US Special operation command.


Yes I do know who command NSG
*And No Paras, marcos and garuds are not under direct command of MOD*
This has been talked many times in this very thread. Try digging older pages. 

Unified command will solve our external operational problems as all assets will be operated to a single command and not to three. 

AFAIK IA want NSG out of this but MOD want them in.


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> what do you think, unified command of current plan will solve all the problems? you know, NSG is under Ministry of Home Affairs, marcos, para commandos and guards are under defence minister SFF is under PM. grouping all this units under single command will not solve all this problems.
> 
> Ministry of Home Affairs is not willing to give NSG to military special forces commands. NSG is headed by an IPS officer who don't know anything about special operations. the current plan of SO command is not that good. it will be excellent if they prefer a command structure like US Special operation command.



SFF won't be part of the Indian J-SOC but the Garuds, PARA (SF), MARCOs and (possibly) the SAG of NSG.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> All three Indian SFs cross train with NSG and each other.
> 
> From a source of mine who is privy to such info from time to time
> 
> 
> What are you surprised by though?
> 
> + @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR -great to have back on here bro!!



Sure man,my pleasure.I hurt a think tanks ego so i got banned.

I am interested in knowing the nationality and deptt of the Instructor who is teaching the NSG guys.



Mercenary said:


> Indian Special Forces have no muscles



SSG are expendables.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sure man,my pleasure.I hurt a think tanks ego so i got banned.
> 
> I am interested in knowing the nationality and deptt of the Instructor who is teaching the NSG guys.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Bro for the answer see:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-183.html#post4658538


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sure man,my pleasure.I hurt a think tanks ego so i got banned.
> 
> I am interested in knowing the nationality and deptt of the Instructor who is teaching the NSG guys.
> 
> 
> 
> .



relax bro, this is their court, here they are the judge, jury and executioner. 
i'm really happy to see you back.


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## Sergi

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sure man,my pleasure.I hurt a think tanks ego so i got banned.
> .



Hahahaha you cant beat me on that though  I got banned 3 times for posting the same SSG story from Siyachin.
Welcome back.

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## kbd-raaf

Sergi said:


> Hahahaha you cant beat me on that though  I got banned 3 times for posting the same SSG story from Siyachin.
> Welcome back.



Could I get a link to that story? :3


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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> SFF won't be part of the Indian J-SOC but the Garuds, PARA (SF), MARCOs and (possibly) the SAG of NSG.



what do thing of J-SOC structure? i will favour a command structure similar to US special operations command.



Sergi said:


> Hahahaha you cant beat me on that though  I got banned 3 times for posting the same SSG story from Siyachin.
> Welcome back.


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> what do thing of J-SOC structure? i will favour a command structure similar to US special operations command.



It's still quite unclear what the structure will be. All we know is the head will be an IA PARA (SF) general, it will incorpate the 3 Indian military SFs and their associated support equipment and the IAF C-130Js will be under this command. 

This is about all we know right now. There's still a lot we don't know.



kbd-raaf said:


> Could I get a link to that story? :3



I think they're taking about the Bana Singh incident. Wiki it bro .

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## Sergi

kbd-raaf said:


> Could I get a link to that story? :3



And you want me to get banned again today 

Google the above mentioned key words. You will find that story.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> Hahahaha you cant beat me on that though  I got banned 3 times for posting the same SSG story from Siyachin.
> Welcome back.




Well..thats brave of you

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> It's still quite unclear what the structure will be. All we know is the head will be an IA PARA (SF) general, it will incorpate the 3 Indian military SFs and their associated support equipment and the IAF C-130Js will be under this command.
> 
> This is about all we know right now. There's still a lot we don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're taking about the Bana Singh incident. Wiki it bro .



in US SOC army, navy and air force has separate command. the chief of this special operations command will be chosen from the best of the best one from three service. in india's J_SOC only army SF officer get higher ranks.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> relax bro, this is their court, here they are the judge, jury and executioner.
> i'm really happy to see you back.



They are 2 rules in my life bro...First one is that i dont earn my bread and butter from this forum so i dont care what is my seniority level here.Second this is i dont give a damn about a guy spending 8 hrs on the net and becoming "Think Tank".

Real life mein _top_ kaun hein yeh mujko pata hein.

.............................................................................................


Now let me come to my favourite topic....

The Indian SF school at nahan is a kinda joint training school only.CIJWS comes second where i know from a reliable source that Army SF beats all other SF in joint competitions.The Navy is getting a SF school built in Goa which would be comparable to CIJWS.Moreoever theres one more school in Karnataka on the coastline facing the Arabian sea.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone of you heard of these words "CIT-X" and "CIT-J"

These were Indian black ops team and i can say from a confirmed source that they have done the role of Indian black ops team till the time this man fcked it up.








Any info is greatly appreciated!

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They are 2 rules in my life bro...First one is that i dont earn my bread and butter from this forum so i dont care what is my seniority level here.Second this is i dont give a damn about a guy spending 8 hrs on the net and becoming "Think Tank".
> 
> Real life mein _top_ kaun hein yeh mujko pata hein.
> 
> .............................................................................................
> 
> 
> Now let me come to my favourite topic....
> 
> The Indian SF school at nahan is a kinda joint training school only.CIJWS comes second where i know from a reliable source that Army SF beats all other SF in joint competitions.The Navy is getting a SF school built in Goa which would be comparable to CIJWS.Moreoever theres one more school in Karnataka on the coastline facing the Arabian sea.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone of you heard of these words "CIT-X" and "CIT-J"
> 
> These were Indian black ops team and i can say from a confirmed source that they have done the role of Indian black ops team till the time this man fcked it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any info is greatly appreciated!





>



he is like our current defence minister. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Moreoever theres one more school in Karnataka on the coastline facing the Arabian sea.



do you know what kind of school is that?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> Army SF beats all other SF in joint competitions



do you know why? what is your opinion about our SF. Which is the best one among the three? i heard that MARCOS has the most toughest selection process among indian special forces.


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> in US SOC army, navy and air force has separate command. the chief of this special operations command will be chosen from the best of the best one from three service. in india's J_SOC only army SF officer get higher ranks.



Idk about "best of the best" but yes, they do rotate between army/navy/AF for the head. I think the fact it will be a PARA (SF) general as the head was a compromise as the Indian MoD wanted to operationalise 3 new "joint commands" is Aerospace, Cyber and SF and thus the heads of all three were split between the IAF, IN and IA respectively. 

As the PARA ( SF) will be by far the largest componant of the J-SOC I guess it makes sense for the head to be IA SF Intially. Down the road I'm sure things will evolve and change. I'm just happy such a J-SOC will be raised by 2018 in India! It is a dream come true!!


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They are 2 rules in my life bro...First one is that i dont earn my bread and butter from this forum so i dont care what is my seniority level here.Second this is i dont give a damn about a guy spending 8 hrs on the net and becoming "Think Tank".
> 
> Real life mein _top_ kaun hein yeh mujko pata hein.
> 
> .............................................................................................
> 
> 
> Now let me come to my favourite topic....
> 
> The Indian SF school at nahan is a kinda joint training school only.CIJWS comes second where i know from a reliable source that Army SF beats all other SF in joint competitions.The Navy is getting a SF school built in Goa which would be comparable to CIJWS.Moreoever theres one more school in Karnataka on the coastline facing the Arabian sea.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone of you heard of these words "CIT-X" and "CIT-J"
> 
> These were Indian black ops team and i can say from a confirmed source that they have done the role of Indian black ops team till the time this man fcked it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any info is greatly appreciated!





special said:


> he is like our current defence minister.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> do you know what kind of school is that?
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> do you know why? what is your opinion about our SF. Which is the best one among the three? i heard that MARCOS has the most toughest selection process among indian special forces.



Wrt this PARA (SF) vs MARCOs vs Garud argument. For obvious reasons all 3 have different strengths and weaknesses. And this is why an Indian J-SOC is such a good idea and a MUST- playing on all these individual strengths and thus correcting any weaknesses of any individual SOF. 

It could be said be MARCOs have he most gruelling selection process (90-95%) drop out rates, the Garuds have the longest training period (2-3 years to become a full-fledged Garud) and the PARA (SF) have the most experience.


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Idk about "best of the best" but yes, they do rotate between army/navy/AF for the head. I think the fact it will be a PARA (SF) general as the head was a compromise as the Indian MoD wanted to operationalise 3 new "joint commands" is Aerospace, Cyber and SF and thus the heads of all three were split between the IAF, IN and IA respectively.
> 
> As the PARA ( SF) will be by far the largest componant of the J-SOC I guess it makes sense for the head to be IA SF Intially. Down the road I'm sure things will evolve and change. I'm just happy such a J-SOC will be raised by 2018 in India! It is a dream come true!!



yes you are right, but evolution is the difficult part in indian military. it took 40 years to create J-SOC from the the year para commandos are created. special forces are not even separated from parachute regiment.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> he is like our current defence minister.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> do you know what kind of school is that?
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> do you know why? what is your opinion about our SF. Which is the best one among the three? i heard that MARCOS has the most toughest selection process among indian special forces.



That School is an SF school.


Look bro,all SF are good.But i am a very politically incorrect straight to the face kinda guy both in real life and web.

SF develop stratergies when they get the experience.When there is NO combat there is NO experience.You cannot go on saying that Garuds is the better SF..because it would be stupid.Rajiv Ranjan from NDTV also very carefully in his documentary said that no one can say that Garuds are not upto the mark and was always insisting on the fact that it is good that AF has its own force.Same guy goes to Army SF school in Nahan and rates Army SF(ie the PARA) as the best SF.Thats intentional and i dare say that this guy most of the times knows what he is covering.His accent is what people hate but nothing can be done about it.

My friend,I would like to tell you that Army SF became the best after the bloody history they have had in the past.I am a fcking no one in the world of SF but as a fan i would say that the 80s was the decade of learning and experience for the Army SF.It started off with the Khalistan movement and went till late 80s and early 90s where the Army SF was severely tested.

In Sri Lanka the Army SF was the only force that was feared by the LTTE at that time.They evolved stratergies and got experiecne which units dont develop by wearing a digi camo sitting comfortably in Bangalore base.Then they went to kashmir where they utilised this experience and proved their worth.

Till date Army SF leads the Op Rakshak as the most deadly unit followed closely by RR Ghatak and J&K SOG not Garud or Marcos.If we talk of the N-E the contribution of Garuds and Marcos is NULL.Army SF has done cross border raids including numerous beheading operation in the 90s and till 2010.PARA SF need not prove anything to anyone as to who the best really are.

Marcos are a amphibious force which is good around waters and not as effective in mountains and deserts.Garuds..well lets not talk about them.I am among those who get impressed by substance not show.Marcos CQB drill in 26/11 was pathetic.Say whatever like they were ill equipped and all but at the end of the day a Marcos is a Marcos and a Gardu is a Garud.Garuds also were not impressive during the one odd situation with naxals where they could have proved their mettle.

And buddies hate me for this if you want but if you have to measure the SFs capabilties by western standards in experience and skill along with high rank officer expereince then there are only 2 SFs/SUs that make the mark for me in ALL ENVIRONMENTS and Garuds and Marcos are not one of them.

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Wrt this PARA (SF) vs MARCOs vs Garud argument. For obvious reasons all 3 have different strengths and weaknesses. And this is why an Indian J-SOC is such a good idea and a MUST- playing on all these individual strengths and thus correcting any weaknesses of any individual SOF.
> 
> It could be said be MARCOs have he most gruelling selection process (90-95%) drop out rates, the Garuds have the longest training period (2-3 years to become a full-fledged Garud) and the PARA (SF) have the most experience.



you said, you had read the book "indian special forces:history and future", when i read that i feel so many thing he said are not correct. in it he said marcos dropout rate is 60%. in all documentaries and other news reports it is 80-90%. in it he says total strength of US special forces is only 15,000. actually it approximately 45,000.and also about kargil war he says no special operations across LOC during that war. what do you think?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Wrt this PARA (SF) vs MARCOs vs Garud argument. For obvious reasons all 3 have different strengths and weaknesses. And this is why an Indian J-SOC is such a good idea and a MUST- playing on all these individual strengths and thus correcting any weaknesses of any individual SOF.
> 
> It could be said be MARCOs have he most gruelling selection process (90-95%) drop out rates, the Garuds have the longest training period (2-3 years to become a full-fledged Garud) and the PARA (SF) have the most experience.



Bro,with all due respect lets keep Garuds out of this.

Now tell me what is the weakness of PARA..In mountainous terrain they performed in Kargil and Op Rakshak till date.In amphibious the operation in Lake Loktak in manipur by 21 SF is famous.In deserts they have done cross borders raids in 65/71 war.In CQB majority of the NSG is PARA SF.

Now the Marcos is only good in amphibious terrain,you saw the CQB drill in 26/11 and compare that to Army SF NSG guys who won the day for India.No experience in terrain above 10,000 feet..what are we comparing here?

Yeah they beat Army SF in Digi camo and looking cool but looks dont kill...your skill,experience and accuracy does.

P.S-Kindly forgive me for being politically incorrect.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> you said, you had read the book "indian special forces:history and future", when i read that i feel so many thing he said are not correct. in it he said marcos dropout rate is 60%. in all documentaries and other news reports it is 80-90%. in it he says total strength of US special forces is only 15,000. actually it approximately 45,000.and also about kargil war he says no special operations across LOC during that war. what do you think?



Well they have thoroughly researched it and we cant ignore their efforts in visiting various bases and meeting important people in the SF establishment.

TV reporters call Gardus as technicians..will you buy that?


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,with all due respect lets keep Garuds out of this.
> 
> Now tell me what is the weakness of PARA..In mountainous terrain they performed in Kargil and Op Rakshak till date.In amphibious the operation in Lake Loktak in manipur by 21 SF is famous.In deserts they have done cross borders raids in 65/71 war.In CQB majority of the NSG is PARA SF.
> 
> Now the Marcos is only good in amphibious terrain,you saw the CQB drill in 26/11 and compare that to Army SF NSG guys who won the day for India.No experience in terrain above 10,000 feet..what are we comparing here?
> 
> Yeah they beat Army SF in Digi camo and looking cool but looks don't kill...your skill,experience and accuracy does.
> 
> P.S-Kindly forgive me for being politically incorrect.



sharing of experience is called training right? marcos are trained in mountain warfare, desert warfare, and CIJW. the role of marcos in op rakshak is very limited, they are called in at the last min. QCB in 26/11 is worst one i had ever saw. but one thing i have to say is this techniques marcos learn is from army special forces. marcos are considered to be one of the best CT force in india. indian special forces start training with foreign special forces at this scale is only after 26/11. nsg had improve its training, marcos and army SF had also improved,


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Well they have thoroughly researched it and we cant ignore their efforts in visiting various bases and meeting important people in the SF establishment.
> 
> TV reporters call Gardus as technicians..will you buy that?



it is just a reporter who knows nothing. after 26/11 there are many reports about marcos and there is a documentary "line of duty" about marcos. the reporter said in front of a macos that their dropout rate is 80%. in rajeev ranjan's program he said dropout is 90%. shiv aroor in his blog wrote about marcos and in it he also say dropout is 90%.
in the book indian special forces the author gets many data from internet mainly from wiki( see the books's reference)


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,with all due respect lets keep Garuds out of this.
> 
> Now tell me what is the weakness of PARA..In mountainous terrain they performed in Kargil and Op Rakshak till date.In amphibious the operation in Lake Loktak in manipur by 21 SF is famous.In deserts they have done cross borders raids in 65/71 war.In CQB majority of the NSG is PARA SF.
> 
> Now the Marcos is only good in amphibious terrain,you saw the CQB drill in 26/11 and compare that to Army SF NSG guys who won the day for India.No experience in terrain above 10,000 feet..what are we comparing here?
> 
> Yeah they beat Army SF in Digi camo and looking cool but looks dont kill...your skill,experience and accuracy does.
> 
> P.S-Kindly forgive me for being politically incorrect.



Bro- I know you're a big PARA (SF)/IA fanboy  !! 

I think give all the SF guys credit where credit is due. Yes the MARCOs got somewhat shown up in 26/11 but like any proffesional force they learnt from their mistakes and have subsequently tightened up their drills/training across the board. 



Yes I agree, let's keep the Garuds out of this debate for now as they are still in their infancy as a force and they have a VERY specialised set of skills/roles. 


But I think any MARCOs vs PARA ( SF) debate is futile as both have different force levels, different remits, different history etc. the MARCOs are a successful unit and have excelled in pretty much every mission they've ever been given. 


Let's just say the Indian J-SOC is going to be a force to reckoned with and once ever increasing degrees of training, cooperation and interaction take place things are going to look pretty darn good for Indian SOFs across the board!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> sharing of experience is called training right? marcos are trained in mountain warfare, desert warfare, and CIJW. the role of marcos in op rakshak is very limited, they are called in at the last min. QCB in 26/11 is worst one i had ever saw. but one thing i have to say is this techniques marcos learn is from army special forces. marcos are considered to be one of the best CT force in india. indian special forces start training with foreign special forces at this scale is only after 26/11. nsg had improve its training, marcos and army SF had also improved,



They are called in the last minute?..Who told you that..GOC of 15 corp?Dont assume things buddy..ARMY doesnt call anyone for help!That is a irresponsible statement.

Marcos are considered best by fanboys who are drooled by digi camo.No sane SF fan worth his knowledge would call them the best.



Abingdonboy said:


> Bro- I know you're a big PARA (SF)/IA fanboy  !!
> 
> I think give all the SF guys credit where credit is due. Yes the MARCOs got somewhat shown up in 26/11 but like any proffesional force they learnt from their mistakes and have subsequently tightened up their drills/training across the board.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I agree, let's keep the Garuds out of this debate for now as they are still in their infancy as a force and they have a VERY specialised set of skills/roles.
> 
> 
> But I think any MARCOs vs PARA ( SF) debate is futile as both have different force levels, different remits, different history etc. the MARCOs are a successful unit and have excelled in pretty much every mission they've ever been given.
> 
> 
> Let's just say the Indian J-SOC is going to be a force to reckoned with and once ever increasing degrees of training, cooperation and interaction take place things are going to look pretty darn good for Indian SOFs across the board!!



Forget the fanboy stuff..Lets get to proving things here because i am tired of this useless debate.

Which high altitude operation has the Marcos done?Kindly name one.

Which desert raid in true SAS style has the MARCOS done till date?

Which CQB operation has the Marcos done till date?

Obviously you would call all the 3 indian SF as a true SF while for me only one make the cut.

Bro if looking cool is the criteria then SWAT and K9 are also SF right?

SF are a bunch of people who can do operations in any territory that is why they are a special force and not a special unit.Take Para out of NSG and it is a Special Unit not a Special Force.


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> you said, you had read the book "indian special forces:history and future", when i read that i feel so many thing he said are not correct. in it he said marcos dropout rate is 60%. in all documentaries and other news reports it is 80-90%. in it he says total strength of US special forces is only 15,000. actually it approximately 45,000.and also about kargil war he says no special operations across LOC during that war. what do you think?



That book was filed with inaccriaces and as such I took all of the content with a bucket of salt. In every report on the MARCOs the drop out rate was stated as 80-95%.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Forget the fanboy stuff..Lets get to proving things here because i am tired of this useless debate.
> 
> Which high altitude operation has the Marcos done?Kindly name one.
> 
> Which desert raid in true SAS style has the MARCOS done till date?
> 
> Which CQB operation has the Marcos done till date?
> 
> Obviously you would call all the 3 indian SF as a true SF while for me only one make the cut.
> 
> Bro if looking cool is the criteria then SWAT and K9 are also SF right?
> 
> SF are a bunch of people who can do operations in any territory that is why they are a special force and not a special unit.Take Para out of NSG and it is a Special Unit not a Special Force.



But bro you can't arbrotarily draw a line in the sand and say- everyone who crosses this line is a SF (PARA SF) and everyone who doesn't isn't. Going by this logic- how many sea interventions have the PARA (SF) done? 


The GAruds and MARCOs ARE SF because they are designated as such and this will be used as such by the Indian military. 


And it's not like the Garuds and MARCOs are one of those stupid police/CAPF "commando" units but true blue SOFs who go through a HELL OF A LOT to earn their SF tabs just like the PARA (SF). Just because they've not been employed in certain missions where the PARA (SF) have doesn't really mean much other than in the past all Indian SFs have been misunderstood and under-utilised by the military and civil leadership.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> it is just a reporter who knows nothing. after 26/11 there are many reports about marcos and there is a documentary "line of duty" about marcos. the reporter said in front of a macos that their dropout rate is 80%. in rajeev ranjan's program he said dropout is 90%. shiv aroor in his blog wrote about marcos and in it he also say dropout is 90%.
> in the book indian special forces the author gets many data from internet mainly from wiki( see the books's reference)



Marcos and garuds are all talk.I would like to meet the man who rated them the best.By the way it was 26/11 where they were rated the best and we all know what happened in 26/11.

I would honestly rate SSG above Marcos and Garud in Kashmir.And i am saying this after being neutral.SSG can easily score over Marcos and garuds in Kashmir valley.Although Para would be the best and it is PARA who faces Pakistani threat.

Mind you again,PARA is the last unit which the Army calls in kashmir and there is no operation which Para cant do from Amphibious operation in Manipur to high altitude beheading in Kashmir never ever ever did the Army call Marcos.

And it would be a shame if the Army has to call Marcos when even the RR ghataks can perform better.



Abingdonboy said:


> But bro you can't arbrotarily draw a line in the sand and say- everyone who crosses this line is a SF (PARA SF) and everyone who doesn't isn't. Going by this logic- how many sea interventions have the PARA (SF) done?
> 
> 
> The GAruds and MARCOs ARE SF because they are designated as such and this will be used as such by the Indian military.
> 
> 
> And it's not like the Garuds and MARCOs are one of those stupid police/CAPF "commando" units but true blue SOFs who go through a HELL OF A LOT to earn their SF tabs just like the PARA (SF). Just because they've not been employed in certain missions where the PARA (SF) have doesn't really mean much other than in the past all Indian SFs have been misunderstood and under-utilised by the military and civil leadership.



So bro,according to you 1 SF is experienced but not the best and 2 SF dont have the experience but are the best?

By the way have you ever thought why are they not deployed and why is the Army SF only deployed for operations like Lake Lokhtak and high altitude operation even after the media labelling the Marcos the best?

Garuds are not a SF in my book.The IA Gorkhas can do a better job with the same equipments and little bit specialised training.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

And its really cool to assume things when the reality is that there is no permanenet seats for MARCOS in HAWS(now you wont know what that means but you would claim that MARCOS are highly trained in mountain warfare).

I wonder where else do they do their high altitude training and where are they deployed coz the only place Marcos can be found in all of troubled kashmir is Srinagar city in their boats.


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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I think you've somehow got the impression that I rate the MARCOs and Garuds above the PARA (SF)- in fact I don't have any such ranking in my mind in anyway. 


Wrt the PARA (SF) being used in Manipur and JK when Garuds and MARCOs haven't- this is more down to the single-service mindset that prevails amongst the top IA brass. Wherin they'd rather call in army assets that may already be in-theatre ie PARA (SF) than naval or IAF assets.
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR- MARCOs train at HAWS and CIJWS. No two ways about it.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I think you've somehow got the impression that I rate the MARCOs and Garuds above the PARA (SF)- in fact I don't have any such ranking in my mind in anyway.
> 
> 
> Wrt the PARA (SF) being used in Manipur and JK when Garuds and MARCOs haven't- this is more down to the single-service mindset that prevails amongst the top IA brass. Wherin they'd rather call in army assets that may already be in-theatre ie PARA (SF) than naval or IAF assets.



Bro,i respect your vast knowledge on things relating to military but i feel you are intentionally being too politically correct and diplomatic.And i say that coz i know that you are well informed about the topic from our chats on Gtalk.

Sometimes it better to be truthful mate.We are not 50 cent posters..are we?


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,i respect your vast knowledge on things relating to military but i feel you are intentionally being too politically correct and diplomatic.And i say that coz i know that you are well informed about the topic from our chats on Gtalk.
> 
> Sometimes it better to be truthful mate.We are not 50 cent posters..are we?


Lol, well maybe I am trying to be too balanced but honestly these are my views! 


And bro- we should speak again on gchat soon- it's been far too long


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Lol, well maybe I am trying to be too balanced but honestly these are my views!
> 
> 
> And bro- we should speak again on gchat soon- it's been far too long



Yeah..I am an ostrich till october(if you know what i mean)..From October onwards i am back as an Eagle so wont have any time.

And you my friend can be a good politician.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeah..I am an ostrich till october(if you know what i mean)..From October onwards i am back as an Eagle so wont have any time.
> 
> And you my friend can be a good politician.


I had to think about it for a second but I got it !! 


I would become one if I didn't despise their kind!!

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## Mercenary

Muradk said:


> Special Forces are not suppose to have muscles. They are suppose to be quick, fast and finish the job before anyone knows.



Of course they are suppose to have muscles. They are suppose to lean, cut, built and in great physical shape.

Indian Special Forces have no muscle definition, no cuts, nothing.

Here are the American Navy Seals. Look at their Muscles and Abs. These guys are built like Tanks.


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## Hindustani

Mercenary said:


> Of course they are suppose to have muscles. They are suppose to lean, cut, built and in great physical shape.
> 
> Indian Special Forces have no muscle definition, no cuts, nothing.
> 
> Here are the American Navy Seals. Look at their Muscles and Abs. These guys are built like Tanks.



This ain't a beauty competition son.


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## kenyannoobie

Tshering22 said:


> You clearly don't know the Indian history don't you?
> 
> Well step aside your socialist inhibitions of self-shame and go into the history before the Europeans stepped into the country.
> 
> Perhaps it will open your eyes.
> 
> You're being too simplistic and idealistic.



Yes,actually ,you're right. Some context is needed for an honest perspective so at risk of a flame war here goes:I'm well aware its not so much ethnic/national or even political but religious eg, what Tamerlane did to Hindus. He was only following precedents set by the Ghaznis,IIRC while India was more or less at peace with the world,lacking ideologies of war. *Earlier ancient India,or at least the area more or less contiguous to its modern day boundaries never invaded anyone. *
These same negative ideals motivating the mass murdering invaders of old are being used by new forces,the same forces who designed the Partition to keep India at bay,IMO.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Mercenary said:


> Of course they are suppose to have muscles. They are suppose to lean, cut, built and in great physical shape.
> 
> Indian Special Forces have no muscle definition, no cuts, nothing.
> 
> Here are the American Navy Seals. Look at their Muscles and Abs. These guys are built like Tanks.



You know your post is as insane as if a lady comes here and says Indian SF dont have a 8 incher(you know what).



Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I think you've somehow got the impression that I rate the MARCOs and Garuds above the PARA (SF)- in fact I don't have any such ranking in my mind in anyway.
> 
> 
> Wrt the PARA (SF) being used in Manipur and JK when Garuds and MARCOs haven't- this is more down to the single-service mindset that prevails amongst the top IA brass. Wherin they'd rather call in army assets that may already be in-theatre ie PARA (SF) than naval or IAF assets.
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR- MARCOs train at HAWS and CIJWS. No two ways about it.



Dude,i have visited HAWS many times.I know MARCOS are not there.Lets not assume things to glorify a unit.

With regard to CIJWS i better not share what Ghataks think about Garuds and other units.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And its really cool to assume things when the reality is that there is no permanenet seats for MARCOS in HAWS(now you wont know what that means but you would claim that MARCOS are highly trained in mountain warfare).
> 
> I wonder where else do they do their high altitude training and where are they deployed coz the only place Marcos can be found in all of troubled kashmir is Srinagar city in their boats.



HAWS is army's school. you know there is no permanent seat for army in diving school in kochi.
experience is shared with others. MARCOS, Guards are trained by these same people who train army SF. marcos are attached to army SF for counter terrorism in kashmir. they got experience from what they deployed, even army praise marcos's work in kashmir, if and ordinary army jawan can do the things better than marcos then what is the point in marcos being deployed in there? i had read many ret. army officers blog, they all said marcos give army an Unprecedented support in kashmir. 

bro, you are underestimating the capability of marcos, they are the only sea-air-land capable unit in india not Army SF. yes, i'm a fan of marcos, because i heard more success stories about MARCOS than Army SF.

during india is sri lanka there are more than 2000 army SF in duty but the strength marcos was not more than 250. marcos and army SF done an excellent job in sri lanka, marcos did outstanding things there. marcos and indian army special forces are all from india.in india joining navy is more difficult than joining army. with more than 80% rejection rate how do you rate Army SF above MARCOS on comparing their skills while bot get same training. during selection process only best of the best will be selected(both in army and navy), all personals being indian how will it become army SF will be more capable than marcos? In QCB nato forces are best, that is why every countries want to learn from them, Army SF and MARCOS are also training with western forces.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> HAWS is army's school. you know there is no permanent seat for army in diving school in kochi.
> experience is shared with others. MARCOS, Guards are trained by these same people who train army SF. marcos are attached to army SF for counter terrorism in kashmir. they got experience from what they deployed, even army praise marcos's work in kashmir, if and ordinary army jawan can do the things better than marcos then what is the point in marcos being deployed in there? i had read many ret. army officers blog, they all said marcos give army an Unprecedented support in kashmir.
> 
> bro, you are underestimating the capability of marcos, they are the only sea-air-land capable unit in india not Army SF. yes, i'm a fan of marcos, because i heard more success stories about MARCOS than Army SF.
> 
> during india is sri lanka there are more than 2000 army SF in duty but the strength marcos was not more than 250. marcos and army SF done an excellent job in sri lanka, marcos did outstanding things there. marcos and indian army special forces are all from india.in india joining navy is more difficult than joining army. with more than 80% rejection rate how do you rate Army SF above MARCOS on comparing their skills while bot get same training. during selection process only best of the best will be selected(both in army and navy), all personals being indian how will it become army SF will be more capable than marcos? In QCB nato forces are best, that is why every countries want to learn from them, Army SF and MARCOS are also training with western forces.



Dude,dont comment for the sake of commenting.If you dont have an idea its sometimes better to sit quiet and observe.


Army has a permanent seat in the school at kochi moreover Divers are trained in nahan too.

According to you...

Army SF doesnt have combat divers...GREAT! 

Army SF is guniea pig for experiement which shed blood to share experience with Marcos and Garuds.

MARCOS and GARUDS are trained by ARMY SF...AWESOME!


Rejection rate is high in MARCOS coz a Marcos wannabe has 0 experience while a ARMY SF wannabe is a GHATAK,ex NSG or a Jawan who is the best in his Infantry unit which has seen combat.He knows what combat is and how to lay ambush,patrol and kill..Get this thing in your mind.

All of you are good in presuming things and writing big dialogue i swear....Let me make things simpler for everyone.

If MARCOS are traine in HAWS why are they not deployed in High Altitude?..Cmon dont give me the crap that they are deployed in Kashmir..Wular Lake is not an high altitude.

Marcos have never been praised by the Army for special operation...KINDLY PROVIDE A LINK AS I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE LYING HERE TO PROVE A POINT.


And according to your logic...If i am a cricket fan and Tendulkar "shares his experience" with me then i become Tendulkar is simply mind blowing.Which means a unit which has seen actual combat and learnt from their casualties is nothing coz it is "sharing experience" with other units sitting comfortably in Andaman and Goa.

Then dude i think Marcos is even superior to SEALS coz Marcos even train with SEALS and NSG is superior to GIGN...great logic.


An Army SF operator serves from Siachin to Thar desert..From Andaman beaches to North East jungles.He spends his tenure from NSG to SG in SFF where no Garud and MArcos can ever make it except in your dreams which unfortunately are not backed up by any links or pics.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Just because Seals rule in USA doesnt mean the story is same in India.Seals are involved in operation in Afghanistan where they are deployed nowhere near the water...Marcos are never deployed away from the water.

Seal are US SFs number 1 unit for combat..ARMY SF is India's no 1 unit.You name any operation in the last 60 years where Marcos have been called first...and yeah i know you would come to this so let me inform you that in 26/11 also the GOC of the Army div was contacted for Army SF which were not present in Mumbai and then only did the GOC recommend Marcos for that operation.

Marcos do not even have 1/10 of the kills that Para SF or Ghataks have.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## adanispices

Hello Buddy.

I am New Here from Chilli Powder Exporters Company. We Provide Custom word Wide Chilli Powder Exporters service as per client requirement. So if you have any question about Chilli Powder Exporters are welcome.

Thanks.


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## SRP

adanispices said:


> Hello Buddy.
> 
> I am New Here from Chilli Powder Exporters Company. We Provide Custom word Wide Chilli Powder Exporters service as per client requirement. So if you have any question about Chilli Powder Exporters are welcome.
> 
> Thanks.



Don't post your commercials here. Better look at members section.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



Reactions: Like Like:
8


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,dont comment for the sake of commenting.If you dont have an idea its sometimes better to sit quiet and observe.
> 
> 
> Army has a permanent seat in the school at kochi moreover Divers are trained in nahan too.
> 
> According to you...
> 
> Army SF doesnt have combat divers...GREAT!
> 
> Army SF is guniea pig for experiement which shed blood to share experience with Marcos and Garuds.
> 
> MARCOS and GARUDS are trained by ARMY SF...AWESOME!
> 
> 
> Rejection rate is high in MARCOS coz a Marcos wannabe has 0 experience while a ARMY SF wannabe is a GHATAK,ex NSG or a Jawan who is the best in his Infantry unit which has seen combat.He knows what combat is and how to lay ambush,patrol and kill..Get this thing in your mind.
> 
> All of you are good in presuming things and writing big dialogue i swear....Let me make things simpler for everyone.
> 
> If MARCOS are traine in HAWS why are they not deployed in High Altitude?..Cmon dont give me the crap that they are deployed in Kashmir..Wular Lake is not an high altitude.
> 
> Marcos have never been praised by the Army for special operation...KINDLY PROVIDE A LINK AS I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE LYING HERE TO PROVE A POINT.
> 
> 
> And according to your logic...If i am a cricket fan and Tendulkar "shares his experience" with me then i become Tendulkar is simply mind blowing.Which means a unit which has seen actual combat and learnt from their casualties is nothing coz it is "sharing experience" with other units sitting comfortably in Andaman and Goa.
> 
> Then dude i think Marcos is even superior to SEALS coz Marcos even train with SEALS and NSG is superior to GIGN...great logic.
> 
> 
> An Army SF operator serves from Siachin to Thar desert..From Andaman beaches to North East jungles.He spends his tenure from NSG to SG in SFF where no Garud and MArcos can ever make it except in your dreams which unfortunately are not backed up by any links or pics.





> Just because Seals rule in USA doesnt mean the story is same in India.Seals are involved in operation in Afghanistan where they are deployed nowhere near the water...Marcos are never deployed away from the water.
> 
> Seal are US SFs number 1 unit for combat..ARMY SF is India's no 1 unit.You name any operation in the last 60 years where Marcos have been called first...and yeah i know you would come to this so let me inform you that in 26/11 also the GOC of the Army div was contacted for Army SF which were not present in Mumbai and then only did the GOC recommend Marcos for that operation.
> 
> Marcos do not even have 1/10 of the kills that Para SF or Ghataks have.







bro, you terribly misunderstand me. i didn't say army SF don't have any divers, and i never say army SF is an experimental thing for MARCOS and GUARDS. 

rejection rate is high because it is recruting best men. army men is not avengers they are very much like personals in navy. both are trained in NDA and other training institutions of indian military.

the special forces of india is recruiting men in their early 20s so both(army SF and MARCOS) don't have much experiences in field when they are recruited, what makes them special is their training. Ambushes and other techniques are not in the bloods of Army sf they know this because of their training, the very training is also given to the MARCOS and Guards these techniques are common to all special forces (if they don't know these then they are not special forces) . army special forces training school in nahan is not only for army, it is for MARCOS, GUARDS and some paramilitary forces too.


kashmir is army's fort navy's role in kashmir is very limited. marcos are mainly deployed in Wular Lake because they have an unprecedented amphibious capability that nobody can give. We don't know if marcos is doing any operations in high altitude areas, if not there is nothing to be surprise because there is army SF to do that job and army SF is larger than marcos (with only up to 80 men deployed in kashmir). marcos are conducting CT operations with army sf. if regular army has the capability better than marcos then why should army SF allow macros to operate with them? 

BUDS training of SEALs is replicated in marcos training in navy's Naval Special Warfare Tactical Training Centre in mumbai which is one of the most toughest in the world. the basic training of marcos that lasts six month is BUDS training.

if marcos is not better than regular army personnel then why india deployed marcos to rescue the ships captured by pirates in indian ocean. and why marcos are deployed in kashmir when marcos have other roles in indian ocean. marcos are understaffed because of their toughest selection process. 

by "shares experience" i mean is sharing their ideas and techniques they used in the field. this is what done in joint training exercise. the skilled men is selected from others is called selection process. the toughest selection will result in better the quality of men and unit and marcos have the toughest selection process in india.

bro, i m not like those who are just lying here to prove a point. i join this forum only to know more about special forces not to prove anything. i understand that you have far better knowledge than me on army SF and SFF, one thing i want to say is i have better knowledge on macros than you and i have friends in navy and one of them is trying to join the marcos. they all share with me about what they know about special forces.


i will definitely post the link to blog of ret. indian army personnels as soon as i get it, it was awhile ago i read that in internet.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> bro, you terribly misunderstand me. i didn't say army SF don't have any divers, and i never say army SF is an experimental thing for MARCOS and GUARDS.
> 
> rejection rate is high because it is recruting best men. army men is not avengers they are very much like personals in navy. both are trained in NDA and other training institutions of indian military.
> 
> the special forces of india is recruiting men in their early 20s so both(army SF and MARCOS) don't have much experiences in field when they are recruited, what makes them special is their training. Ambushes and other techniques are not in the bloods of Army sf they know this because of their training, the very training is also given to the MARCOS and Guards these techniques are common to all special forces (if they don't know these then they are not special forces) . army special forces training school in nahan is not only for army, it is for MARCOS, GUARDS and some paramilitary forces too.
> 
> 
> kashmir is army's fort navy's role in kashmir is very limited. marcos are mainly deployed in Wular Lake because they have an unprecedented amphibious capability that nobody can give. We don't know if marcos is doing any operations in high altitude areas, if not there is nothing to be surprise because there is army SF to do that job and army SF is larger than marcos (with only up to 80 men deployed in kashmir). marcos are conducting CT operations with army sf. if regular army has the capability better than marcos then why should army SF allow macros to operate with them?
> 
> BUDS training of SEALs is replicated in marcos training in navy's Naval Special Warfare Tactical Training Centre in mumbai which is one of the most toughest in the world. the basic training of marcos that lasts six month is BUDS training.
> 
> if marcos is not better than regular army personnel then why india deployed marcos to rescue the ships captured by pirates in indian ocean. and why marcos are deployed in kashmir when marcos have other roles in indian ocean. marcos are understaffed because of their toughest selection process.
> 
> by "shares experience" i mean is sharing their ideas and techniques they used in the field. this is what done in joint training exercise. the skilled men is selected from others is called selection process. the toughest selection will result in better the quality of men and unit and marcos have the toughest selection process in india.
> 
> bro, i m not like those who are just lying here to prove a point. i join this forum only to know more about special forces not to prove anything. i understand that you have far better knowledge than me on army SF and SFF, one thing i want to say is i have better knowledge on macros than you and i have friends in navy and one of them is trying to join the marcos. they all share with me about what they know about special forces.
> 
> 
> i will definitely post the link to blog of ret. indian army personnels as soon as i get it, it was awhile ago i read that in internet.



Bro,i didnt mean to disrespect you or something but i am very irritated by people claiming unimaginable things like Army seeking MARCOS help and MARCOS being part of units which only Army SF is a part of.I am here for my thirst of knowledge on SF and not for proving that i am the best informed.In real life my field is Aviation but i hardly comment on Aviation related tropics here because i am here for the SF and i will be thankful to anyone who educates me on this.

Now comming to the point...Firstly what i was trying to say was that only Infantry soldiers can volunteer for SF.Only those infantry soldiers who are the BEST in their unit.And then they are sent to their command where they compete with other best infantrymen from other units.The best of the best infantrymen are then sent for probation..You getting my point?..How can you compare the best of the best infantrmen that the Army has to offer who has had combat in RR and other posting to a sailor of the Indian Navy or a VBSS team operator with no real life action.This is where the difference starts....Let me give you an example if you still dont get my point...If i have to make a MOTO GP biker race F1 the conversion would not take more than a few weeks or months..but if i have to make you an F1 driver it would take years.

Next point i didnt mean to say infantry units are better than Marcos.But what i said was like Marcos are good for ops near water likewise Gorkhas are excellent fighters in mountains and jungle.So if we give specalise training to them also they can also be a special unit.I mean we can convert a few gorkha units into Para Infantry.(not SF)

What angers me the most is that Army SF is over burdened in Kashmir and N-E and Garuds and Marcos can help the Army SF.The process to be the best will only start once you are actively involved in combat.Wearing digi camo and posing wont help anyone.

I dont have relatives in Army SF that i support them but consider this..An Army SF operator in his life will serve from Kashmir to Rajashtani deserts and N-E tropical jungles.He is an experienced campaigner who can be a combat diver and can go to serve in NSG and SG of the SFF.He would have experience that only other such units in India would be dream of.His officers would be the best and most experienced in the country who would have tremendous experience in leading SF operators in Special missions which other forces wont have.His buddies in his units would even have more kills than him.Other units in his elite SF brotherhood would be competing for the kills.Even if you take 1 SF unit with the entire MARCOS you would get more experience in the Army SF unit than the entire Marcos...Like for example 1st battalion the Para regtt has more experience than entire Marcos and Garuds combined despite it having 800 men...and we all know what wonders 9 Para has done in Kashmir so better not compare such highly reputed units to a non experienced force.

If you still doubt the above paragraph then go to youtube and watch Col Sheoran's interview who by the way is from Army SF and commnder of NSG 51 SAG at the time of 26/11 to the Marcos commander in the very same operation...you would realise you are comparing apples and oranges moreoever compare NSG drills with MArcos drills in the same operation to find out about the skills too.


----------



## senkakudefender

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,i didnt mean to disrespect you or something but i am very irritated by people claiming unimaginable things like Army seeking MARCOS help and MARCOS being part of units which only Army SF is a part of.I am here for my thirst of knowledge on SF and not for proving that i am the best informed.In real life my field is Aviation but i hardly comment on Aviation related tropics here because i am here for the SF and i will be thankful to anyone who educates me on this.
> 
> Now comming to the point...Firstly what i was trying to say was that only Infantry soldiers can volunteer for SF.Only those infantry soldiers who are the BEST in their unit.And then they are sent to their command where they compete with other best infantrymen from other units.The best of the best infantrymen are then sent for probation..You getting my point?..How can you compare the best of the best infantrmen that the Army has to offer who has have combat in RR and other posting to a sailor of the Indian Navy or a VBSS team operator with no real life action.This is where the difference starts....Let me give you an example if you still dont get my point...If i have to make a MOTO GP biker race F1 the conversion would not take more than a few weeks or months..but if i have to make you an F1 driver it would take years.
> 
> Next point i didnt mean to say infantry units are better than Marcos.But what i said was like Marcos are good for ops near water likewise Gorkhas are excellent fighters in mountains and jungle.So if we give specalise training to them also they can also be a special unit.I mean we can convert a few gorkha units into Para Infantry.(not SF)
> 
> What angers me the most is that Army SF is over burdened in Kashmir and N-E and Garuds and Marcos can help the Army SF.The process to be the best will only start once you are actively involved in combat.Wearing digi camo and posing wont help anyone.
> 
> I dont have relatives in Army SF that i support them but consider this..An Army SF operator in his life will serve from Kashmir to Rajashtani deserts and N-E tropical jungles.He is an experienced campaigner who can be a combat diver and can go to serve in NSG and SG of the SFF.He would have experience that only other such units in India would be dream of.His officers would be the best and most experienced in the country who would have tremendous experience in leading SF operators in Special missions which other forces wont have.His buddies in his units would even have more kills than him.Other units in his elite SF brotherhood would be competing for the kills.Even if you take 1 SF unit with the entire MARCOS you would get more experience in the Army SF unit than the entire Marcos...Like for example 1st battalion the Para regtt has more experience than entire Marcos and Garuds combined despite it having 800 men...and we all know what wonders 9 Para has done in Kashmir so better not compare such highly reputed units to a non experienced force.
> 
> If you still doubt the above paragraph then go to youtube and watch Col Sheoran's interview who by the way is from Army SF and commnder of NSG 51 SAG at the time of 26/11 to the Marcos commander in the very same operation...you would realise you are comparing apples and oranges moreoever compare NSG drills with MArcos drills in the same operation to find out about the skills too.



Ignore the bugger, he's trying to derail the thread.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

senkakudefender said:


> Ignore the bugger, he's trying to derail the thread.



Its okay dude..he is new and too energetic.


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## senkakudefender

*GARUD COMMANDO*

















OLD PIC








COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Its okay dude..he is new and too energetic.



He should look at his SF , won't have much energy left then.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,i didnt mean to disrespect you or something but i am very irritated by people claiming unimaginable things like Army seeking MARCOS help and MARCOS being part of units which only Army SF is a part of.I am here for my thirst of knowledge on SF and not for proving that i am the best informed.In real life my field is Aviation but i hardly comment on Aviation related tropics here because i am here for the SF and i will be thankful to anyone who educates me on this.
> 
> Now comming to the point...Firstly what i was trying to say was that only Infantry soldiers can volunteer for SF.Only those infantry soldiers who are the BEST in their unit.And then they are sent to their command where they compete with other best infantrymen from other units.The best of the best infantrymen are then sent for probation..You getting my point?..How can you compare the best of the best infantrmen that the Army has to offer who has have combat in RR and other posting to a sailor of the Indian Navy or a VBSS team operator with no real life action.This is where the difference starts....Let me give you an example if you still dont get my point...If i have to make a MOTO GP biker race F1 the conversion would not take more than a few weeks or months..but if i have to make you an F1 driver it would take years.
> 
> Next point i didnt mean to say infantry units are better than Marcos.But what i said was like Marcos are good for ops near water likewise Gorkhas are excellent fighters in mountains and jungle.So if we give specalise training to them also they can also be a special unit.I mean we can convert a few gorkha units into Para Infantry.(not SF)
> 
> What angers me the most is that Army SF is over burdened in Kashmir and N-E and Garuds and Marcos can help the Army SF.The process to be the best will only start once you are actively involved in combat.Wearing digi camo and posing wont help anyone.
> 
> I dont have relatives in Army SF that i support them but consider this..An Army SF operator in his life will serve from Kashmir to Rajashtani deserts and N-E tropical jungles.He is an experienced campaigner who can be a combat diver and can go to serve in NSG and SG of the SFF.He would have experience that only other such units in India would be dream of.His officers would be the best and most experienced in the country who would have tremendous experience in leading SF operators in Special missions which other forces wont have.His buddies in his units would even have more kills than him.Other units in his elite SF brotherhood would be competing for the kills.Even if you take 1 SF unit with the entire MARCOS you would get more experience in the Army SF unit than the entire Marcos...Like for example 1st battalion the Para regtt has more experience than entire Marcos and Garuds combined despite it haveing 800 men.
> 
> If you still doubt the above paragraph then go to youtube and watch Col Sheoran's interview who by the way is from Army SF and commnder of NSG 51 SAG at the time of 26/11 to the Marcos commander in the very same operation...you would realise you are comparing apples and oranges moreoever compare NSG drills with MArcos drills in the same operation to find out about the skills too.



Gorkhas are the best men in mountain warfare, that is why indian and british army recruits them, they will outperform any special forces personals from other parts of country in mountain warfare. indian army has a desert warfare school in rajasthan, Garuds and MARCOS are also trained there.

paracommands(SF) personals are recruited from all the branches of army but majority is from infantry unit. 

bro, i agree that army has more experience in land warfare, but my point is army SF, GUARDS and MARCOS are trained in the same army's schools and get the same training in land warfare, marcos in addition to this is trained in INS abhimanyu for naval special warfare, which is special operations in marine environment, and some QCB.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> Gorkhas are the best men in mountain warfare, that is why indian and british army recruits them, they will outperform any special forces personals from other parts of country in mountain warfare. indian army has a desert warfare school in rajasthan, Garuds and MARCOS are also trained there.
> 
> paracommands(SF) personals are recruited from all the branches of army but majority is from infantry unit.
> 
> bro, i agree that army has more experience in land warfare, but my point is army SF, GUARDS and MARCOS are trained in the same army's schools and get the same training in land warfare, marcos in addition to this is trained in INS abhimanyu for naval special warfare, which is special operations in marine environment, and some QCB.



AFAIK SF men come from Infantry only but Para regtt men come from all over the Army.

Bro,training can lead you upto a point.After that your experience counts and this is what i feel..feel free to disagee


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## special

senkakudefender said:


> *
> 
> 
> He should look at his SF , won't have much energy left then. *


*


what is your point? i was just comparing army's and navy's special forces. first you have to understand that and then commend.
this thread is for discussing about indian special forces.*


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## senkakudefender

special said:


> what is your point? i was just comparing army's and navy's special forces. first you have to understand that and then commend.
> this thread is for discussing about indian special forces.



Yeah I know, inhe zyada badava mat do. They'll troll over every little pic go to pages 140 - 160 to understand.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> AFAIK SF men come from Infantry only but Para regtt men come from all over the Army.
> 
> Bro,training can lead you upto a point.After that your experience counts and this is what i feel..feel free to disagee



bro, pls understand me. i'm saying what i know, i get info on marcos from my friends in navy. i am here not to prove or agree/disagree anything, just like you i join this forum only to know about special forces. what makes me angry this:



> Rejection rate is high in MARCOS coz a Marcos wannabe has 0 experience while a ARMY SF wannabe is a GHATAK,ex NSG or a Jawan who is the best in his Infantry unit which has seen combat.He knows what combat is and how to lay ambush,patrol and kill..Get this thing in your mind.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> bro, pls understand me. i'm saying what i know, i get info on marcos from my friends in navy. i am here not to prove or agree/disagree anything, just like you i join this forum only to know about special forces. what makes me angry this:



Why you angry?..Those are the facts.My friend in Ghatak who wants to join SF has been part of 5 operations and 2 among them were top secret...Does any Marcos operator have that experience in last 2 years?

Moreover kindly share more info on Marcos like what we dont know as i am interested in knowing more on them..No imaginary things but.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Why you angry?..Those are the facts.My friend in Ghatak who wants to join SF has been part of 5 operations and 2 among them were top secret...Does any Marcos operator have that experience in last 2 years?
> 
> Moreover kindly share more info on Marcos like what we dont know as i am interested in knowing more on them..No imaginary things but.



what makes me angry is when you said high rejection rate of marcos is due to 0 experience. marcos training is modeled by SEALs, 
a navy personal wants to join can have a conditioning courses(for preparing to face selection process) and a Q course (qualification course must for every applicant) after this selection process and training begins.

marcos operation in kashmir is kept secret by navy, all i know is they are actively engaged in CI and covert operation. 

bro, if you don't have any friends in army then just like others you will believe that army do not conduct any covert operations in J&K, and if you have friends in marcos then you will understand what kind of operation marcos is doing in kashmir.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> what makes me angry is when you said high rejection rate of marcos is due to 0 experience. marcos training is modeled by SEALs,
> a navy personal wants to join can have a conditioning courses(for preparing to face selection process) and a Q course (qualification course must for every applicant) after this selection process and training begins.
> 
> marcos operation in kashmir is kept secret by navy, all i know is they are actively engaged in CI and covert operation.
> 
> bro, if you don't have any friends in army then just like others you will believe that army do not conduct any covert operations in J&K, and if you have friends in marcos then you will understand what kind of operation marcos is doing in kashmir.



The high training time of 2 years is to make a inexperienced skillless sailor into a SF operator.PARA SF trains elite soldiers in 6 months.


My dad used to be a commander of RR in the 90s when the terrorism was at peak...i have friends my age serving in RR currently and my brother has served in SOG...i have been in every district of Kashmir.I have escaped bullets on 3 occasions at an age of 24....and you tell me sitting in Kerala that there is still a secret place left in the state(to which i belong to) where Marcos operate and a secret unit of which i have no idea of having been spent 20 yrs of my life in Army cantonments..

There is a limit on how much you can lie to prove your fav SF is doing wonders and you have crossed all such limits...There is no where else Marcos are deployed except in Wular lake.Para SF,RR and SOG are the only units active...and Marcos are not a part of them...Cmon man i have heard this bullshit of Marcos in secret operation and being part of SG too much now.It comes from the types of those who had rated Marcos NO 1 SF for 26/11..i am seriously not interested in these fake stories anymore.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NATIONAL SECURITY GUARDS











old one..26/11


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The high training time of 2 years is to make a inexperienced skillless sailor into a SF operator.PARA SF trains elite soldiers in 6 months.
> 
> 
> My dad used to be a commander of RR in the 90s when the terrorism was at peak...i have friends my age serving in RR currently and my brother has served in SOG...i have been in every district of Kashmir.I have escaped bullets on 3 occasions at an age of 24....and you tell me sitting in Kerala that there is still a secret place left in the state(to which i belong to) where Marcos operate and a secret unit of which i have no idea of having been spent 20 yrs of my life in Army cantonments..
> 
> There is a limit on how much you can lie to prove your fav SF is doing wonders and you have crossed all such limits...There is no where else Marcos are deployed except in Wular lake.Para SF,RR and SOG are the only units active...and Marcos are not a part of them...Cmon man i have heard this bullshit of Marcos in secret operation and being part of SG too much now.It comes from the types of those who had rated Marcos NO 1 SF for 26/11..i am seriously not interested in these fake stories anymore.



bro, it is up to you to believe me or not. if somebody in the area knows about covert operation unit in that area then they are no longer a covert operation unit.

i'm not their commander to tell exactly where they operate. i get this information from my friend in navy who wants to join the marcos. and i am here not to prove that marcos is NO 1.

for us army SF training is period approximately 2 years


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> bro, it is up to you to believe me or not. if somebody in the area knows about covert operation unit in that area then they are no longer a covert operation unit.
> 
> i'm not their commander to tell exactly where they operate. i get this information from my friend in navy who wants to join the marcos. and i am here not to prove that marcos is NO 1.
> 
> for us army SF training is period approximately 2 years



My friend in the navy who wants to join Marcos says when i showed him a pic of SPB that they are Marcos..You should ask the right people.I would consider such sources who havent ever seen action in J&K and are a Marcos wannabe as unreliable.

I would rather trust RR people,SOG and Ghataks as they operate together for special missions and that is where i will put my money on.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> My friend in the navy who wants to join Marcos says when i showed him a pic of SPB that they are Marcos..You should ask the right people.I would consider such sources who havent ever seen action in J&K and are a Marcos wannabe as unreliable.
> 
> I would rather trust RR people,SOG and Ghataks as they operate together for special missions and that is where i will put my money on.



it looks like neither of us is not going change our belief.
shiv aroor says this photo is of marcos.







Livefist: New Look Indian Marine Commandos


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> it looks like neither of us is not going change our belief.
> shiv aroor says this photo is of marcos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Livefist: New Look Indian Marine Commandos



How is it releated to anything i said?


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> There is no where else Marcos are deployed except in Wular lake.Para SF,RR and SOG are the only units active...and Marcos are not a part of them...Cmon man i have heard this bullshit of Marcos in secret operation and being part of SG too much now.



Why do they not deploy MARCOS along with PARA SF in operations ??

PARA SF being a more experienced SF , MARCOS will be able to learn more from them .

Such joint ops will give tremendous boost to the MARCOS in real time experiences , don't you think .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> Why do they not deploy MARCOS along with PARA SF in operations ??
> 
> PARA SF being a more experienced SF , MARCOS will be able to learn more from them .
> 
> Such joint ops will give tremendous boost to the MARCOS in real time experiences , don't you think .



Thats exactly what i want..


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thats exactly what i want..



Bro I know we apparently don't agree on this subject but I respect your POV compelty. All I will say is that AFAIK MARCOs HAVE operated alongside PARA (SF). I don't know if this is the case today or on a routine basis. 

Got this info from an ex PARA (7 PARA so not SF). 


I hope you trust me enough to believe me.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

We should have a join SF command with Marcos and Garuds being part of action and i mean regular action.In N-E we can send a flight of Garuds for 6 months and see how they perform.In the beginning they might have problems but they can only learn and implement.Sitting in bangalore base or Chandigarh base wont help in anyway coz target boards dont fire back and Sachin tendulkar cannot be made in net practice but real match experience.


Marcos can be given better assingments in kashmir with RR and PARA SF.

Moreoever these secrets units no matter how secret they are will always be deployed and attached to a Army unit.and that is the only reason i say they are not present because had they been there i would have known..and if you want you can trust me and if you want you cannot but when i can get information of the like of beheading before any damn news agency in the country got it then i would like to believe my sources are not wrong.

Marcos are attached to Badami Bagh cantt of the Indian Army in Srinagar...nowhere else is any SF unit attached like Marcos and Garuds...most of you wont know but Garuds are not even deployed in radar installation near the LOC where DSC is deployed which is a unit of ex armymen.

Rest i cant stop anyone from halucination..choice is yours.



Abingdonboy said:


> Bro I know we apparently don't agree on this subject but I respect your POV compelty. All I will say is that AFAIK MARCOs HAVE operated alongside PARA (SF). I don't know if this is the case today or on a routine basis.
> 
> Got this info from an ex PARA (7 PARA so not SF).
> 
> 
> I hope you trust me enough to believe me.



Buddy,i have friends in almost all IA bases in Kashmir and i dont think that is correct with all due respect.

Do you agree Marcos need to be attached to a unit..

ATTACHED-is a army term when a soldier moves from one place to another his reports and documents are tranfered and kept and records are made.

I am from a Army background trust me such things are not possible without many guys in the Army knowing about it.hese are technical matters and difficult for me to explain...Marcos dont live in hotels you know.They need a parent unit.

7 PARA is not a Sf unit moreover and not part of any SF operations...33 RR is though and i dont think they are a part of 33 RR...33 RR consists of the Para regtt personnel for those who dont know.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Personnel report in transit camps.Where they are attached with all their docs and reports to verify their identity.Then they are transferred to various bases in kashmir where they carry along their documents.They attend CBS school in Srinagar where they are trained for what they will be facing.Rhen they are sent to their parent unit where a report is made and sent to higher command that these many people from these units are in our base...(A commanding officer takes everyones interview)

These are technical things guys and very diffcult to explain to a civilian who relies on newspaper for information..and i am not saying this in a wrong sense.Please understand the complications and steps involved.

We are not operating A teams in Kashmir that Marcos personnel will land in Kashmir and suddenly get a hotel booked and bang bang bang kill a few terrorists....cmon...theres a length process..Need i show you pics of Marcos deployed in Wular lake and Army guys from the HQ around them?

Navy doesnt have a base in Kashmir so naturally they have to be deployed with Army only.

When i have seen Para SF men with beards dressed in Muslim dresses walk in and out of Army cantonments there is no reason Marcos wont be doing that.

And may i ask you who will give the intel to them as all the intel is with the Army bases only.Without intel there is no operation..

But still most would like to dream and wont accept the facts when the have 0 technical knowledge on things relating to deployments...Maybe a day when TOI or Hindu would report this you can trust me then.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Still if you feel like me,Media and Press and the knowledgeable authors of the book indian Special Forces are wrong and you are right having been provided technical know hows in bits and pieces too then i would say kindly excuse me coz i am having an arguement with a wrong kind who believes in imagination and not in real facts.

I rest my case..


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## senkakudefender

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> NATIONAL SECURITY GUARDS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> old one..26/11



Please write OLD in the heading.

New BTW.


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## Omega007

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR,
Hey man,a few years I had heard that the SOG was to be disbanded!I wonder what could have been the rationale behind that notion of banning such an well trained and highly effective organisation??By the way,are they still active??And which organisation do they draw their cadres from-Army,paramilitary or JK Police?

And what is the present status of the Ikhwans??Haven't heard about them for a long time?Do you see those guys now?

About the 9 Para in Kashmir-could you kindly give some examples of some of their notable operations?

And lastly,how would you rate the Ghatak troopers vis-a-vis MARCOS operative??
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR,
Hey man,a few years I had heard that the SOG was to be disbanded!I wonder what could have been the rationale behind that notion of banning such an well trained and highly effective organisation??By the way,are they still active??And which organisation do they draw their cadres from-Army,paramilitary or JK Police?

And what is the present status of the Ikhwans??Haven't heard about them for a long time?Do you see those guys now?

About the 9 Para in Kashmir-could you kindly give some examples of some of their notable operations?

And lastly,how would you rate the Ghatak troopers vis-a-vis MARCOS operative??


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## Abingdonboy

SPG Counter Assualt Team (CAT):







(Photo from 2009)


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## asad71

1.Tell me if I am wrong. There is a tendency among India's higher bureaucracy and political leadership to (mis)use military SFs for routine sentry duties and personal protection.

2. Who provides the physical protection for the Service Chiefs who often have to attend non-military functions?


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## Abingdonboy

asad71 said:


> 1.Tell me if I am wrong. There is a tendency among India's higher bureaucracy and political leadership to (mis)use military SFs for routine sentry duties and personal protection.
> 
> 2. Who provides the physical protection for the Service Chiefs who often have to attend non-military functions?



You're wrong. SFs don't protect civilians. 

Afaik the COAS has a small team of PARA (SF) for personal protection but that's about it.

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## asad71

Abingdonboy said:


> You're wrong. SFs don't protect civilians.
> 
> .



You mean to say, these personnel deployed around the PM, Sonia, Pranab and others are non-military personnel?


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## third eye

asad71 said:


> You mean to say, these personnel deployed around the PM, Sonia, Pranab and others are non-military personnel?



They are not from the AF, Navy or Army.

however Pranab has the PBG which is an Army Unit - looks ceremonial but has operational roles too.


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## hkdas

asad71 said:


> You mean to say, these personnel deployed around the PM, Sonia, Pranab and others are non-military personnel?



they are SPG selected from central police forces, not from military.


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## Abingdonboy

asad71 said:


> You mean to say, these personnel deployed around the PM, Sonia, Pranab and others are non-military personnel?



That's exactly what I'm saying. The PM of India, their families and Ex-PMs (as well as the Gandhi family did to special circumstances) are protected by the SPG (Special Protection Group) which is a police/civilian unit that recruits from the Central Police Force Units NOT the military. 


The SPG:








The president of India is protected by a special squad of the Delhi police. There was talk of him and the Vice Pres getting SPG cover too recently but this is just a proposal as of now. The President's Bodyguard (PBG) is an active military unit of the IA however they do not serve the President of India in any practical basis only in a ceremonial one (think of the Queen of England and the Guardsmen and mounted cavalry of the British Army). As I said his close protection is handled by a police team.

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## Abingdonboy

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ve-nsg-increase-sky-marshals.html#post4737392


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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>



There are only 3 Indian SFs. 


And that MARCOs pic isn't even of a MARCO.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> There are only 3 Indian SFs.
> 
> 
> And that MARCOs pic isn't even of a MARCO.



Hahaha I was abt to post that my self and abingdonboy is not belive they r marcos rather spb may be ...
I think cobra is a commando force of crpf not even from army

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> There are only 3 Indian SFs.
> 
> 
> And that MARCOs pic isn't even of a MARCO.



yes i was knowing that sir someone would say it i know he is not marco he is spb soldier (sagar prahari bal)but there is no big difference betn them and marcos so u suggest me a marco pic with same pose like other commandos.
and one more thing i know there are only 3 military sfs but i included all for this pic.
So u guys suggest me pics what corrections and changes should be done so i will do it.


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## Jason bourne

Unknowncommando said:


> yes i was knowing that sir someone would say it i know he is not marco he is spb soldier (sagar prahari bal)but there is no big difference betn them and marcos so u suggest me a marco pic with same pose like other commandos.
> and one more thing i know there are only 3 military sfs but i included all for this pic.
> So u guys suggest me pics what corrections and changes should be done so i will do it.



Just use commando ...


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## Unknowncommando

Jason bourne said:


> Hahaha I was abt to post that my self and abingdonboy is not belive they r marcos rather spb may be ...
> I think cobra is a commando force of crpf not even from army



bro i know all these things then why SPG COBRA AND NSG pics are posted on this thread though they are not military sfs.
abhi jane bhi doo yaroo koi bada problem nahi hai !!!!



Jason bourne said:


> Just use commando ...



i said pic bro pic i was not having a marco pic with sssssssaaaaaaaammmmmeeeeeee pose suggest me pic.


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## Jason bourne

Unknowncommando said:


> bro i know all these things then why SPG COBRA AND NSG pics are posted on this thread though they are not military sfs.
> abhi jane bhi doo yaroo koi bada problem nahi hai !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i said pic bro pic i was not having a marco pic with sssssssaaaaaaaammmmmeeeeeee pose suggest me pic.




I am from I pad why don't u use legendary pic of Marcos ... Bit old but will do


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Hahaha I was abt to post that my self and abingdonboy is not belive they r marcos rather spb may be ...
> I think cobra is a commando force of crpf not even from army


You're right- COBRA are from the CRPF, they have nothing to do with the IA other than some training but they are 100% made up of CRPF men. 


Unknowncommando said:


> yes i was knowing that sir someone would say it i know he is not marco he is spb soldier (sagar prahari bal)but there is no big difference betn them and marcos so u suggest me a marco pic with same pose like other commandos.
> and one more thing i know there are only 3 military sfs but i included all for this pic.
> So u guys suggest me pics what corrections and changes should be done so i will do it.



Fair enough bro. Maybe a better title would be "Special Units of India?"


For the Garuds I'd go for this pic:







Or:







You're right it is incriedbly hard to find such a pic of MARCOs as they don't get anything like the exposure the PARA (SF) or even the GARUDs now get. But maybe one of these?







Or:


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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> You're right- COBRA are from the CRPF, they have nothing to do with the IA other than some training but they are 100% made up of CRPF men.
> 
> 
> Fair enough bro. Maybe a better title would be "Special Units of India?"
> 
> 
> For the Garuds I'd go for this pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right it is incriedbly hard to find such a pic of MARCOs as they don't get anything like the exposure the PARA (SF) or even the GARUDs now get. But maybe one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or:






Yep talking abt this pic of marcos


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG




















CRPF COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

some op pics

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


>



Nice


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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDS


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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> You're right- COBRA are from the CRPF, they have nothing to do with the IA other than some training but they are 100% made up of CRPF men.
> 
> 
> Fair enough bro. Maybe a better title would be "Special Units of India?"
> 
> 
> 
> For the Garuds I'd go for this pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right it is incriedbly hard to find such a pic of MARCOs as they don't get anything like the exposure the PARA (SF) or even the GARUDs now get. But maybe one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or:







INDIAN SPECIAL FORCES / SPECIAL UNITS OF INDIA no title this time. happy now ? fine? SIR !!!!

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN SPECIAL FORCES / SPECIAL UNITS OF INDIA no title this time. happy now ? fine? SIR !!!!



Very nice work there mate!

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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando




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## Shaped charge

is that a FN P-90 or TAR-21 carbine in the COBRA operative?


Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN SPECIAL FORCES / SPECIAL UNITS OF INDIA no title this time. happy now ? fine? SIR !!!!


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## SRP

Shaped charge said:


> is that a FN P-90 or TAR-21 carbine in the COBRA operative?



A TAR-21 carbine


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## Abingdonboy

Shaped charge said:


> is that a FN P-90 or TAR-21 carbine in the COBRA operative?





desert warrior said:


> A TAR-21 carbine


It's an MTAR-21 or X-95 as they are sold as. Every variant of the Tavor is in service in India- the TAR-21, the CTAR, the GTAR, the STAR and the MTAR/X-95!


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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> It's an MTAR-21 or X-95 as they are sold as. Every variant of the Tavor is in service in India- the TAR-21, the CTAR, the GTAR, the STAR and the MTAR/X-95!



Can you tell me is corner shot is in servise with any force in india if yes do u have any pic I heard some where that NSG or Marcos has corner shot but never seen any pic ..


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Can you tell me is corner shot is in servise with any force in india if yes do u have any pic I heard some where that NSG or Marcos has corner shot but never seen any pic ..



Only pics of it in use are with the Delhi Police SWAT team:

?????? ????? ?? ?????? ??????


Apart from them many police forces are said/known to have it- Mumbai, Karnataka, Punjab, Goa, Hyrayana, etc 


On the military side the MARCOs and PARA (SF) are said to have it and I suspect the Garuds do too. The RR either do have it or will get it very soon.

The NSG definetly have it.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Only pics of it in use are with the Delhi Police SWAT team:
> 
> ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ??????
> 
> 
> Apart from them many police forces are said/known to have it- Mumbai, Karnataka, Punjab, Goa, Hyrayana, etc
> 
> 
> On the military side the MARCOs and PARA (SF) are said to have it and I suspect the Garuds do too. The RR either do have it or will get it very soon.
> 
> The NSG definetly have it.



Ow thanks man don't knw that .. But the link is not proper it shows live ndtv news ;0


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Ow thanks man don't knw that .. But the link is not proper it shows live ndtv news ;0



It works for me- maybe as I'm on my phone. 


Try this then bro:



http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/187925-delhi-police-swat-training-video-must-watch.html

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## hkdas

which unit is this?


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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> It works for me- maybe as I'm on my phone.
> 
> 
> Try this then bro:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/187925-delhi-police-swat-training-video-must-watch.html



Punjab police swat team trained by israly ? They look mor like American army


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> which unit is this?


Mumbai PD QRT. 


Jason bourne said:


> Punjab police swat team trained by israly ? They look mor like American army


I don't know about trained by the Israelis but certainly kitted out by them . It wouldn't be a surprise though, FORCE ONE of the Mahrastra police were trained by Elite members of the Israeli Border Guards.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> Mumbai PD QRT.
> 
> I don't know about trained by the Israelis but certainly kitted out by them . It wouldn't be a surprise though, FORCE ONE of the Mahrastra police were trained by Elite members of the Israeli Border Guards.



Yes they are trained by Israeli in phillaur Punjab police academy.. Jalandhar ..

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Mumbai PD QRT.
> 
> I don't know about trained by the Israelis but certainly kitted out by them . It wouldn't be a surprise though, FORCE ONE of the Mahrastra police were trained by Elite members of the Israeli Border Guards.



it is Yamam. 
Yamam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> It works for me- maybe as I'm on my phone.
> 
> 
> Try this then bro:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/187925-delhi-police-swat-training-video-must-watch.html



By da way how effective dis Cornor shot system is wrt to indian ops I mean hostage like situation or coin ?


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## hkdas

Elite Marcos to train in Sunderbans


Jayanta Gupta, TNN | Sep 13, 2013, 03.42 AM IST


KOLKATA: The Indian Navy's marine commandos (Marcos) will carry out amphibious operations at Frasersgunj in the Sunderbans as part of their routine training.

A contingent of the elite commandos has already reached Kolkata and the exercise will be carried out sometime soon, said Navy sources.

Frasersgunj, with its beach and proximity to the estuarine delta, is an ideal location for such exercises, the source added. The Coast Guard is in the process of setting up a base at Frasersgunj and station hovercraft there.

"It is within the Marcos' charter of duties to support amphibious operations including pre-assault ones," an officer said. "The commandos are also trained to conduct surveillance and reconnaissance missions to support naval operations. The commandos are all expert divers and trained to carry out clandestine diving operations. One of their primary roles is combating terrorism in a maritime role. Frasersgunj is an ideal location as it is quite secluded. The commandos will be set different tasks during the exercises. These will involve amphibious landing, clandestine diving and demolition practice," he added.

More importantly, the elite force will get a feel of the Sunderbans, which is considered at risk from infiltrators and terrorists, added a source.

There are so many waterways running through the Sunderbans delta that it is not possible to maintain physical vigil on all movement there. Security experts believe that the threat from terrorists moving in from the sea still remains. With so many vessels passing through the Sunderbans, it may be a route for terror outfits to send in armed men to carry out an attack like that on Mumbai.

"There are several uninhabited islands in the Sunderbans where terrorists can set up base. In the past, some islands have been used by poachers, criminals and pirates who have attacked Indian fishermen. It is a complex landscape and the elite forces need to have a feel of the land. In case of any eventuality, the Marcos are most likely to be called in as it is a marine environment. The commandos played a major role even during the Mumbai terror strike. A major part of their training is kept under wraps. Frasersgunj will be an ideal location where secrecy can be maintained," the officer added.

Elite Marcos to train in Sunderbans - The Times of India

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## hkdas

> Krav Maga to give Goa Police combative edge
> Goa,Crime/Disaster/Accident,Defence/Security, Fri, 13 Sep 2013IANS
> 
> Panaji, Sep 13 (IANS) Goa Police have been criticised for their high-handedness, lack of investigative skills and poor human rights record. The police are now banking on Krav Maga, an Israeli street-fighting craft, to add a cutting edge to their combative skills.
> A one-day workshop in the martial art was organised by Krav Maga Global (KMG), the group that has also coached the elite Special Protection Group (SPG) that guards the prime minister and some important leaders. This could lead to a bigger action plan aimed at making the state police "tactically, technically, physically and mentally" better, through Krav Maga, a lethal cocktail of several martial arts, wrestling, boxing and street-fighting.
> Elroy Vaz, who conducted the training session, said that the Israeli martial art would also help the police force develop "muscle memory", a key ingredient in combat situations.
> "Our body has a natural response to situations. How Krav Maga helps is in adding a layer of practised ease to this natural response mechanism," Vaz told IANS.
> In a situation where police officers are armed, but shooting is often treated as a last recourse, training in Krav Maga's combat techniques could help in both defensive and offensive situations.
> "There are situations where police have to disarm an armed suspect or handcuff a person who is resisting their attempts. Krav Maga has a way out for this," Vaz said.
> The session that Vaz conducted was for the anti-terror squad, whose duties range from protecting VIPs to handling extreme law and order situations, among other critical chores.
> Goa Police officer D. Gad said Krav Maga could lend a "cutting edge" to the skills learnt in training schools.
> "The boys saw it as a very beneficial exercise," he said.
> The KMG, headed by Israeli Eyal Yanilov, one of the foremost exponents of the martial art globally, has also trained the elite Indian Navy's marine commandos or MARCOS, best remembered for their anti-terror operation following the 2008 Mumbai attacks.
> There are other defence ministry assignments, but Vaz doesn't want to speak about them.
> "We are in talks with the Goa Police for sustained training programmes. It is on track. Training the instructors in the police is also crucial because some of the physical drills still practised in the police force are around 20-30 years old," Vaz said.
> Krav Maga was developed initially as a close combat (Krav Maga means contact combat in Hebrew) craft used by the Israeli defence forces.
> Its endorsement by Hollywood celebrities has given the martial art global exposure.
> Some of Daniel Craig's moves in the opening train sequence in the latest James Bond flick "Skyfall" are inspired by the Israeli technique.
> The technique also boasts of being the most beneficial in real-life street fighting situations as opposed to other more classical martial arts like karate or taekwondo, which are fought in more sanitised conditions and are bound by rules.
> 
> Krav Maga to give Goa Police combative edge



paracommandos and garuds use Pekiti Tirsia Kali in hand-to-hand combat. guys anybody knows about marcos hand-to-hand combat? did they train both Pekiti Tirsia Kali and Krav-Maga, or just Krav-Maga only?

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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> By da way how effective dis Cornor shot system is wrt to indian ops I mean hostage like situation or coin ?



I don't see why it wouldn't be as effective in Indian has a than in Isreali of anyone else's. it is a very specific system for a very specific role, that's about all I can say.



hkdas said:


> it is Yamam.
> Yamam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Right- it was 6am bro and I couldn't be bothered to look up their name . 


Thanks for that mate!!

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't see why it wouldn't be as effective in Indian has a than in Isreali of anyone else's. it is a very specific system for a very specific role, that's about all I can say.
> 
> 
> Right- it was 6am bro and I couldn't be bothered to look up their name .
> 
> 
> Thanks for that mate!!





Actully I see very limited role for this system I don't see this system inducted in large number ...


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## hkdas

Jason bourne said:


> Actully I see very limited role for this system I don't see this system inducted in large number ...



its role is defined in its name. it is useful in corner firing, not that good in straight firing.may be that is why it is in limited number.


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## Unknowncommando

https://fbcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1209220_370146436451836_705862081_n.jpg


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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> https://fbcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1209220_370146436451836_705862081_n.jpg


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## Unknowncommando

hkdas said:


>


bro i am not able to upload photo from my mobile plzz help me.


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> bro i am not able to upload photo from my mobile plzz help me.



I'd advise you to email the photo to yourself then login on your phone's browser to your email. Open the picture and copy and paste the URL onto the "insert image" here on PDF.



Jason bourne said:


> Actully I see very limited role for this system I don't see this system inducted in large number ...



The point is just that, it is for limited deployment for very specifc missions. The idea is not to have an entire Assualt team armed with the CornerShot but maybe 1-2 "point-men".

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> I'd advise you to email the photo to yourself then login on your phone's browser to your email. Open the picture and copy and paste the URL onto the "insert image" here on PDF.
> 
> 
> 
> The point is just that, it is for limited deployment for very specifc missions.the idea is not to have an entire Assualt team armed with the CornerShot but maybe 1-2 "point-men".



Oh great u r a gem this is what I wanted to hear

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> I'd advise you to email the photo to yourself then login on your phone's browser to your email. Open the picture and copy and paste the URL onto the "insert image" here on PDF.
> 
> 
> 
> The point is just that, it is for limited deployment for very specifc missions. The idea is not to have an entire Assualt team armed with the CornerShot but maybe 1-2 "point-men".



Frankly speaking they are extra weight you have to carry, when you really don't want that weight. They are battery eaters, expensive to operate and get damages easily. Not a fan, with good tactics and instict you can fill that gap, that cornershot provides.


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Frankly speaking they are extra weight you have to carry, when you really don't want that weight. They are battery eaters, expensive to operate and get damages easily. Not a fan, with good tactics and instict you can fill that gap, that cornershot provides.



The kind of ops these would be used in ie urban CQB the ops are going to short and sharp. From what I know the battery life is pretty decent so the need for extra batteries is not going to be so pronounced.

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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> The kind of ops these would be used in ie urban CQB the ops are going to short and sharp. From what I know the battery life is pretty decent so the need for extra batteries is not going to be so pronounced.




Heard there is some balancing problem on ak's ?


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Heard there is some balancing problem on ak's ?



I don't think any unit in India is mounting AKs on their CornerShots most likely just be Glock 17/9.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> I'd advise you to email the photo to yourself then login on your phone's browser to your email. Open the picture and copy and paste the URL onto the "insert image" here on PDF.
> Bro my mobile not showing the insert options at all only option is for text. Thats why i cant share photos from mobile.


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Abingdonboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd advise you to email the photo to yourself then login on your phone's browser to your email. Open the picture and copy and paste the URL onto the "insert image" here on PDF.
> Bro my mobile not showing the insert options at all only option is for text. Thats why i cant share photos from mobile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bro if you want, email me at abingdonboy1@g.m.a.i.l.com and I'd be happy to upload your pics.
Click to expand...


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## hkdas

@Abingdonboy
could you pls translate this.






i get this as its translation, i don't know it correct or not. pls help me, bro.
_After the attack in Mumbai the Indian police turned to the Israeli police and asked it to help and establish a SWAT like unit in India, the unit was named Force One. The Israeli police sent three instructors that are incharge of the Border Police CT school. They reached the training center in India where they met the 34 members of what would-be Force1. At first, they checked the armory and saw weapons that weren't cleaned for 5 years and soldiers that didn't know that they can shoot while running or even find the north using the sun-clock. 
Five weeks later the 26 that finished had a summarizing CT training and a graduation ceremony where they received their diplomas decorated by the Indian and Israeli flags, Border Guard flag and the LOTAR emblem. The best one of them received his LOTAR pin from the head instructor of the Israeli border guard CT school._

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> @Abingdonboy
> could you pls translate this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i get this as its translation, i don't know it correct or not. pls help me, bro.
> _After the attack in Mumbai the Indian police turned to the Israeli police and asked it to help and establish a SWAT like unit in India, the unit was named Force One. The Israeli police sent three instructors that are incharge of the Border Police CT school. They reached the training center in India where they met the 34 members of what would-be Force1. At first, they checked the armory and saw weapons that weren't cleaned for 5 years and soldiers that didn't know that they can shoot while running or even find the north using the sun-clock.
> Five weeks later the 26 that finished had a summarizing CT training and a graduation ceremony where they received their diplomas decorated by the Indian and Israeli flags, Border Guard flag and the LOTAR emblem. The best one of them received his LOTAR pin from the head instructor of the Israeli border guard CT school._



I had asked an Isreali member some time back for a breif summary of the vid and it wasn't too dissimilar to this. 


One thing that member said was highlighted was the progression these commandos had made (signifcant) and also be bond between the Israeli trainers and their Indian students. By the end of it he Israeli guys said they felt these Indians were their brothers and that they'd happily go into combat with them.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> I had asked an Isreali member some time back for a breif summary of the vid and it wasn't too dissimilar to this.
> 
> 
> One thing that member said was highlighted was the progression these commandos had made (signifcant) and also be bond between the Israeli trainers and their Indian students. By the end of it he Israeli guys said they felt these Indians were their brothers and that they'd happily go into combat with them.



i got this as its translation from my friend. i don't know it is correct or not. any others in this form knows hebrew pls translate this... 

_After the attack in Mumbai the Indian police turned to the Israeli police and asked it to help and establish a SWAT like unit in India, the unit was named Force One. The Israeli police sent three instructors that are incharge of the Border Police CT school. They reached the training center in India where they met the 34 members of what would-be Force1. At first, they checked the armory and saw weapons that weren't cleaned for 5 years and soldiers that didn't know that they can shoot while running or even find the north using the sun-clock. 
Five weeks later the 26 that finished had a summarizing CT training and a graduation ceremony where they received their diplomas decorated by the Indian and Israeli flags, Border Guard flag and the LOTAR emblem. The best one of them received his LOTAR pin from the head instructor of the Israeli border guard CT school.
_


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

For the first time in life i had an oppurtunity to interact with a high level official of the IA who served in kashmir about SF and i got the info out of him that Marcos are indeed deployed in Wular lake only.They are doing well there and have 1 team.However he did not share the strength of the team.

Marcos are not part of any IA unit and the IA top brass is impressed by their work however they feel that they are good around water bodies only and nowhere else.

Regarding a question put up by me on Army SF..The top official went on to say that Ghataks are also doing a good job and the Infantry units rarely need Para SF help...However there are units which are trained on specific roles on LOC..details of which were not shared.(IA SF Units)

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> For the first time in life i had an oppurtunity to interact with a high level official of the IA who served in kashmir about SF and i got the info out of him that Marcos are indeed deployed in Wular lake only.They are doing well there and have 1 team.However he did not share the strength of the team.
> 
> Marcos are not part of any IA unit and the IA top brass is impressed by their work however they feel that they are good around water bodies only and nowhere else.
> 
> Regarding a question put up by me on Army SF..The top official went on to say that Ghataks are also doing a good job and the Infantry units rarely need Para SF help...However there are units which are trained on specific roles on LOC..details of which were not shared.(IA SF Units)



Did he happen to share with you how PARA (SF) operate in JK? What are their main duties and roles in the valley today?


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> For the first time in life i had an oppurtunity to interact with a high level official of the IA who served in kashmir about SF and i got the info out of him that Marcos are indeed deployed in Wular lake only.They are doing well there and have 1 team.However he did not share the strength of the team.
> 
> Marcos are not part of any IA unit and the IA top brass is impressed by their work however they feel that they are good around water bodies only and nowhere else.
> 
> Regarding a question put up by me on Army SF..The top official went on to say that Ghataks are also doing a good job and the Infantry units rarely need Para SF help...However there are units which are trained on specific roles on LOC..details of which were not shared.(IA SF Units)



could you pls share it with us? i'm eager to know that. any details on marcos and paras(SF)?



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> For the first time in life i had an oppurtunity to interact with a high level official of the IA who served in kashmir about SF and i got the info out of him that Marcos are indeed deployed in Wular lake only.They are doing well there and have 1 team.However he did not share the strength of the team.
> 
> Marcos are not part of any IA unit and the IA top brass is impressed by their work however they feel that they are good around water bodies only and nowhere else.
> 
> Regarding a question put up by me on Army SF..The top official went on to say that Ghataks are also doing a good job and the Infantry units rarely need Para SF help...However there are units which are trained on specific roles on LOC..details of which were not shared.(IA SF Units)



could you pls share it with us? i'm eager to know that. any details on marcos and paras(SF)?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> could you pls share it with us? i'm eager to know that. any details on marcos and paras(SF)?
> 
> 
> 
> could you pls share it with us? i'm eager to know that. any details on marcos and paras(SF)?



He didnt share it with me..all he said was that we have well trained SF units which can carry out any type of cross border operation...i think he was pointing towards Para SF.



Abingdonboy said:


> Did he happen to share with you how PARA (SF) operate in JK? What are their main duties and roles in the valley today?



No...he was very cautious in sharing the details..thatswhy i hardly like to interact with the Officers.However i asked him is the SFF under the Army..to which he said yes.


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## Omega007

Hey COLD,nice to see you man.
By the way,what's the present status of the Ikhwans??Do you see those guys around these days??

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He didnt share it with me..all he said was that we have well trained SF units which can carry out any type of cross border operation...i think he was pointing towards Para SF.
> 
> 
> 
> No...he was very cautious in sharing the details..thatswhy i hardly like to interact with the Officers.However i asked him is the SFF under the Army..to which he said yes.



special frontier force?? how do you know he was pointing towards para sf? we have mainly 4 special forces(army,navy,air force and sff).


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Hey COLD,nice to see you man.
> By the way,what's the present status of the Ikhwans??Do you see those guys around these days??



Yeah man,I was away for 20 days and i was quoted and mentioned multiple times by guys asking for SOG and Ikhwans.

SOG is a special operations team of the J&K Armed Police.It wont be wrong to call them one of the 3 top Special units in Jammu and Kashmir if you are talking purely about the kills.

Police officers and soldiers used to get trained by the IA in the beginning and they closely work with RR and Para SF.What makes them special is that they are given a lot of freedom to deal with the seperatists which even the Army is not given and since they are locals so i need not say that it is natural for them to not look like the Government forces.

They managed to infiltrate various terrorist groups by being a part of them..infiltration has been to such deep level that we recently came to know about a Inspector who was playing a double game just to get those terrorists who had beheaded Army soldiers in January.

They are rewarded for every kill ranging from 50,000 to lakhs..i dont think surrendered terrorists are part of SOG but they are a part of J&KAP.


Now Ikhwans were supposedly disbanded and i heard tat they dont exist but in 2011 a report came that they are being given support again but i never came to hear about them or see them.

You know mate...everyting in Kashmir is under control by Indian intelligence agencies.They are working day and night just like the ISI...and dont be surprised if 30 years from now you come to hear in a book written by intelligence officials that seperatists are on Indian Intelligence agencies payroll.



hkdas said:


> special frontier force?? how do you know he was pointing towards para sf? we have mainly 4 special forces(army,navy,air force and sff).



Because we were talking about Army Special Force and he didnt want to name which Para SF unit is given the task.

And come on man..SFF is not a SF and Army wont ever need Garuds and Marcos help in high altitude LOC when Ghataks can do a much better job bcoz Ghataks stay they all round the year and train for the situation.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Because we were talking about Army Special Force and he didnt want to name which Para SF unit is given the task.
> 
> And come on man..SFF is not a SF and Army wont ever need Garuds and Marcos help in high altitude LOC when Ghataks can do a much better job bcoz Ghataks stay they all round the year and train for the situation.



sorry i mean sff-sg


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeah man,I was away for 20 days and i was quoted and mentioned multiple times by guys asking for SOG and Ikhwans.
> 
> SOG is a special operations team of the J&K Armed Police.It wont be wrong to call them one of the 3 top Special units in Jammu and Kashmir if you are talking purely about the kills.
> 
> Police officers and soldiers used to get trained by the IA in the beginning and they closely work with RR and Para SF.What makes them special is that they are given a lot of freedom to deal with the seperatists which even the Army is not given and since they are locals so i need not say that it is natural for them to not look like the Government forces.
> 
> They managed to infiltrate various terrorist groups by being a part of them..infiltration has been to such deep level that we recently came to know about a Inspector who was playing a double game just to get those terrorists who had beheaded Army soldiers in January.
> 
> They are rewarded for every kill ranging from 50,000 to lakhs..i dont think surrendered terrorists are part of SOG but they are a part of J&KAP.
> 
> 
> Now Ikhwans were supposedly disbanded and i heard tat they dont exist but in 2011 a report came that they are being given support again but i never came to hear about them or see them.
> 
> You know mate...everyting in Kashmir is under control by Indian intelligence agencies.They are working day and night just like the ISI...and dont be surprised if 30 years from now you come to hear in a book written by intelligence officials that seperatists are on Indian Intelligence agencies payroll.
> 
> 
> 
> Because we were talking about Army Special Force and he didnt want to name which Para SF unit is given the task.
> 
> And come on man..SFF is not a SF and Army wont ever need Garuds and Marcos help in high altitude LOC when Ghataks can do a much better job bcoz Ghataks stay they all round the year and train for the situation.



may be you are right. IA has more manpower than Marcos and garuds. J&K is army's playground. what i can't agree with you is your comparison of marcos and garuds with ghataks. during the war garuds have to undertake the most daring operations than army sf and marcos.


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## Omega007

THANX man,actually it was me who asked those questions.And I think that when it comes to HAW atleast,the Ghataks match the Para SF (including the legendary 9 Para) if not excell them.Correct me if I'm wrong.
And by the way,just like you I also am a great fan of Para SF.Without disrespecting the MARCOS and Garuds,I still think they don't come even close to Paras when it comes to JW and HAW.

And lastly,do you support my view that the Ghataks are atleast on per with the SSG in terms of training and equipment??


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## Omega007

hkdas said:


> may be you are right. IA has more manpower than Marcos and garuds. J&K is army's playground. what i can't agree with you is your comparison of marcos and garuds with ghataks. during the war guards have to undertake the most daring operations than army sf and marcos.



By guards do you mean the Brigade of Guards??Man,I love them;they have the coolest uniform.When I was a kid I wanted to join it some day just because of the uniform!!


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## kurup

Can somebody identify this unit ???

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-military-picture-thread-159.html#post4762461


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## hkdas

Omega007 said:


> By guards do you mean the Brigade of Guards??Man,I love them;they have the coolest uniform.When I was a kid I wanted to join it some day just because of the uniform!!



i mean garuds.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> may be you are right. IA has more manpower than Marcos and garuds. J&K is army's playground. what i can't agree with you is your comparison of marcos and garuds with ghataks. during the war garuds have to undertake the most daring operations than army sf and marcos.



You are highly underestimating Ghataks who are responsible for all high altitude operations in Kashmir and over estimating Garuds and Marcos who are nowhere in high altitude operations.


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## sms

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You are highly underestimating Ghataks who are responsible for all high altitude operations in Kashmir and over estimating Garuds and Marcos who are nowhere in high altitude operations.



You've dispread for wks.. Where have you been. Hope everything is all right


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> THANX man,actually it was me who asked those questions.And I think that when it comes to HAW atleast,the Ghataks match the Para SF (including the legendary 9 Para) if not excell them.Correct me if I'm wrong.
> And by the way,just like you I also am a great fan of Para SF.Without disrespecting the MARCOS and Garuds,I still think they don't come even close to Paras when it comes to JW and HAW.
> 
> And lastly,do you support my view that the Ghataks are atleast on per with the SSG in terms of training and equipment??



Mostly i agree with you..but i wont call them better than Para SF..but they are very good.SSG is a pretty good SF unit specially after the experience they are getting with taliban...i would rather not compare them and avoid myself the trouble. 

The standard of Indian infatryman and his skill is such that its only wise to guess that Ghataks would be lethal.

Ghataks spend 2-3 yrs in Kashmir high altitude forests and its their playgroud...saying that Garuds and Marcos will come out of nowhere and perform better than them is very wrong.

Most of the guys would be surprised to know that in CBS and CIJWS Ghataks outperformed Garuds and Marcos...and where the Para SF has set records which no unit in india has ever come close to.



sms said:


> You've dispread for wks.. Where have you been. Hope everything is all right



Ya mate,i had been to a relatives place...somewhere in a Central Command cantonment of the IA.

Everything is fine mate..Thanks for asking.

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## sms

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mostly i agree with you..but i wont call them better than Para SF..but they are very good.SSG is a pretty good SF unit specially after the experience they are getting with taliban...i would rather not compare them and avoid myself the trouble.
> 
> The standard of Indian infatryman and his skill is such that its only wise to guess that Ghataks would be lethal.
> 
> *Ghataks spend 2-3 yrs in Kashmir high altitude forests and its their playgroud...saying that Garuds and Marcos will come out of nowhere and perform better than them is very wrong.*
> 
> Most of the guys would be surprised to know that in CBS and CIJWS Ghataks outperformed Garuds and Marcos...and where the Para SF has set records which no unit in india has ever come close to.



Agree with highlighted part... part time training on those theaters form Garuda/ Marcos will not make them better than a units spending years in that scenario.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> Can somebody identify this unit ???
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-military-picture-thread-159.html#post4762461




I am not sure..my guess is COBRA.



sms said:


> Agree with highlighted part... part time training on those theaters form Garuda/ Marcos will not make them better than a units spending years in that scenario.



Obviously,if i say that Para SF has better divers than Marcos then it wont be right..but its hard making everyone understand.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You are highly underestimating Ghataks who are responsible for all high altitude operations in Kashmir and over estimating Garuds and Marcos who are nowhere in high altitude operations.



i'm not comparing them only in HAW but overall performance in different places in kashmir. don't know about garuds but marcos are deployed there for over a decade, is this time is enough time for gaining experience? 

bro there are multiple reports on facebook and internet that 10 para and 9 para have hk416 do you have any information on this?


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am not sure..my guess is COBRA.



The link says it is COBRA ...but looks like a new uniform camo ...


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## Dillinger

kurup said:


> The link says it is COBRA ...but looks like a new uniform camo ...



What link?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> i'm not comparing them only in HAW but overall performance in different places in kashmir. don't know about garuds but marcos are deployed there for over a decade, is this time is enough time for gaining experience?
> 
> bro there are multiple reports on facebook and internet that 10 para and 9 para have hk416 do you have any information on this?



In kashmir they are only deployed in Wular..which is a water body..how can it give them high altitude experience?By the way they did a remarkable job in Wular.

No i dont have any confirmed reports..



kurup said:


> The link says it is COBRA ...but looks like a new uniform camo ...



Camo is something which changes like seasons in India.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA SF doing what no unit in India does..except SOG

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> In kashmir they are only deployed in Wular..which is a water body..how can it give them high altitude experience?By the way they did a remarkable job in Wular.



yes they are deployed in and around Wular for counter terrorism. how would you rate their performance in that?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA SF in high altitude ops

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## kurup

Dillinger said:


> What link?



Link on the pic buddy .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> yes they are deployed in and around Wular for counter terrorism. how would you rate their performance in that?



I dont doubt their performance around water bodies...


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## Dillinger

kurup said:


> Link on the pic buddy .



Oh bhai post the exact link here and mention me.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA SF

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## hkdas

............


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## kurup

Dillinger said:


> Oh bhai post the exact link here and mention me.








picture is from FB CRPF fans .

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1231688_369616673171479_50566395_n.jpg



Dillinger said:


> Oh bhai post the exact link here and mention me.


 @Dillinger :






picture is from FB CRPF fans .

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1231688_369616673171479_50566395_n.jpg


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PARA SF doing what no unit in India does..except SOG



i think you get this pic from the book _Indian special forces: history and future_

look at this pic of marcos in kashmir. they are in kashmir to conduct similar operations of army you mention above. 







kurup said:


> picture is from FB CRPF fans .
> 
> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1231688_369616673171479_50566395_n.jpg
> 
> 
> @Dillinger :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picture is from FB CRPF fans .
> 
> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1231688_369616673171479_50566395_n.jpg



they are may be of some anti naxal forces of state police.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PARA SF in high altitude ops



army SF during kargil war

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont doubt their performance around water bodies...



bro, they are not aquatic animals to always remain in water bodies. their operation will extend to land areas if they they got some intelligence reports about militant activity in nearby areas.


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## hkdas

marcos in kashmir.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, they are not aquatic animals to always remain in water bodies. their operation will extend to land areas if they they got some intelligence reports about militant activity in nearby areas.



Are you insane or are you trying hard to be one?

We dont have James Bond movie going on Kashmir that once one has info they can go anywhere...thatswhy there are sectors and forces..like Kilo force is for Kupwara and Delta force for Doda...Anyways do forgive me i realise after wasting 3-4 pages of this thread that i am arguing with the wrong guy.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> i think you get this pic from the book _Indian special forces: history and future_
> 
> look at this pic of marcos in kashmir. they are in kashmir to conduct similar operations of army you mention above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are may be of some anti naxal forces of state police.
> 
> 
> 
> army SF during kargil war




A bloody Indian high level official is wrong the entire fcking media is wrong..everyone else is wrong but we have a hero named HKDAS who knows it all about Kashmir without having even set his foot in Kashmir ever in his life...Prove that MArcos are present in RR or LOC operation and stop uttering bullshit.


And those pics are not of Kargil war...people have no idea about the terrain the structure of houses and where they belong to but still they want to comment and prove wrong as right.


----------



## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Are you insane or are you trying hard to be one?
> 
> We dont have James Bond movie going on Kashmir that once one has info they can go anywhere...thatswhy there are sectors and forces..like Kilo force is for Kupwara and Delta force for Doda...Anyways do forgive me i realise after wasting 3-4 pages of this thread that i am arguing with the wrong guy.



relax bro, you are the one who says marcos and army has no joint operations. i know about RR different units each have their own area for operations. before getting angry on me you have to think. if navy got an information on a terrorist group in nearby area of Wular Lake, do you think that marcos call army for conducting that operations to eliminate the terrorists? the navy will definitely inform about the operations but will not ask for army to do that, if navy calls army for help then there is no point in deploying marcos there. The only thing i don't agree with you is _*marcos operates only on water bodes* _. bro you are fully aware that information on a terrorist group is key and very valuable, if navy go army's help to conduct the operation it is waste of precious time. to avoid this marcos in Kashmir has a QRT to act on moments notice. 

bro, we are civilians we know about these operations only when someone in the military tells us about it. i have friend and neighbour who had worked in NSG and RR and he told me about RR's operations and also said that NSG has its-own intelligence network.


----------



## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And those pics are not of Kargil war...people have no idea about the terrain the structure of houses and where they belong to but still they want to comment and prove wrong as right.



i am sorry, i mistook photo you posted with these:





















^^special forces in kargil war

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> relax bro, you are the one who says marcos and army has no joint operations. i know about RR different units each have their own area for operations. before getting angry on me you have to think. if navy got an information on a terrorist group in nearby area of Wular Lake, do you think that marcos call army for conducting that operations to eliminate the terrorists? the navy will definitely inform about the operations but will not ask for army to do that, if navy calls army for help then there is no point in deploying marcos there. The only thing i don't agree with you is _*marcos operates only on water bodes* _. bro you are fully aware that information on a terrorist group is key and very valuable, if navy go army's help to conduct the operation it is waste of precious time. to avoid this marcos in Kashmir has a QRT to act on moments notice.
> 
> bro, we are civilians we know about these operations only when someone in the military tells us about it. i have friend and neighbour who had worked in NSG and RR and he told me about RR's operations and also said that NSG has its-own intelligence network.



Dude,you are not willing to listen when someone is telling you something.I am not earning my bread and butter here that i post stuff for promotion and stuff...half of the time like your post above you are misquoting me.

Anyways,sorry for being rude..Take care.


----------



## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,you are not willing to listen when someone is telling you something.I am not earning my bread and butter here that i post stuff for promotion and stuff...half of the time like your post above you are misquoting me.
> 
> Anyways,sorry for being rude..Take care.



oh, dude, no one is earning any thing from this. we all are sharing what we know. i know you have much more knowledge on army and Kashmir than anyone in this forum. what i said earlier was my doubt about marcos and its operations in Kashmir. i'm not trying to prove anything. i'm really sorry if i hurt your mind.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> oh, dude, no one is earning any thing from this. we all are sharing what we know. i know you have much more knowledge on army and Kashmir than anyone in this forum. what i said earlier was my doubt about marcos and its operations in Kashmir. i'm not trying to prove anything. i'm really sorry if i hurt your mind.



I am not here to become an elite member mate..if you really respect me then have a constructive debate with me..i wasted 2 pages of this thread making things clear for you but you dont wanna listen.I am not partial for any SF i just have a favourtie and its becuase i see a difference which i wanna show to everyone that who is sacrificing their blood more for Indias freedom and sovereignty.

At my experience belonging to the state of Jammu and Kashmir i dont have to open a link and check where the pics belong to..like for example the below pic..i just had a look at the type of house and i know which region it belongs to...So with all due respect no one here can match the experience and exposure i get from belonging to the state and spending 20 yrs around Armymen.






Anyways...

J&K SOG still active



> Two suspected militants were killed by security forces in a school building in north Kashmirs Baramulla district.
> 
> Defence Spokesman Naresh Vig said a search operation was carried out by 27 Rashtriya Rifles unit of Indian Army and Special Operations Group of Jammu and Kashmir police in north Kashmirs Goshbugh locality.



http://www.authintmail.com/news/kashmir/protest-north-kashmir-2-militants-are-killed


----------



## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am not here to become an elite member mate..if you really respect me then have a constructive debate with me..i wasted 2 pages of this thread making things clear for you but you dont wanna listen.I am not partial for any SF i just have a favourtie and its becuase i see a difference which i wanna show to everyone that who is sacrificing their blood more for Indias freedom and sovereignty.
> 
> At my experience belonging to the state of Jammu and Kashmir i dont have to open a link and check where the pics belong to..like for example the below pic..i just had a look at the type of house and i know which region it belongs to...So with all due respect no one here can match the experience and exposure i get from belonging to the state and spending 20 yrs around Armymen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways...



bro, i know about the army's sacrifice in J&K. i read many blogs and other writings of army personals who had experienced in J&K, i have a friend who had worked in RR and NSG and frinds in army. what i never read or heard is marcos's experiences in J&K. i had only expressed my doubts on marcos operations in Kashmir. once again sorry if i hurt your mind.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, i know about the army's sacrifice in J&K. i read many blogs and other writings of army personals who had experienced in J&K, i have a friend who had worked in RR and NSG and frinds in army. what i never read or heard is marcos's experiences in J&K. i had only expressed my doubts on marcos operations in Kashmir. once again sorry if i hurt your mind.



Bro,i am not hurt.

Secondly,The Army is sacrificing in kashmir and not the MArcos and Garuds.Thats is what i want to point out.The Marcos and Gardus can never match the sacrifices which even 1 unit of Para SF has made forget about all of them combined...9SF would have more combat experience than Marcos or garuds can ever have.

The operations are not handled like you suggest...if the Marcos sitting in kashmir get an intel about terrorists in kupwara then the unit sitting in kupwara would take action and no way would marcos be asked to move to kupwara..This is not a James Bond movie.

Many poster here are hardcore US SF fan and they suggest that we have a secret unit with Para,Garuds,Marcos being part of it which is not true at all.There is no Army unit like this not even the SG which comes under the Army.RAW used to have two teams CIT-X and CIT-J for these missions and Marcos were not a part of it as far as i know.

I dont like fake stories comming out of people newly joining the forum..and i have decided that as long as i decide to invest my time here i am going to strongly oppose any such fake stories just to make Indian SF "look cool".


----------



## prandtl

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,i am not hurt.
> 
> Secondly,The Army is sacrificing in kashmir and not the MArcos and Garuds.Thats is what i want to point out.The Marcos and Gardus can never match the sacrifices which even 1 unit of Para SF has made forget about all of them combined...9SF would have more combat experience than Marcos or garuds can ever have.
> 
> The operations are not handled like you suggest...if the Marcos sitting in kashmir get an intel about terrorists in kupwara then the unit sitting in kupwara would take action and no way would marcos be asked to move to kupwara..This is not a James Bond movie.
> 
> Many poster here are hardcore US SF fan and they suggest that we have a secret unit with Para,Garuds,Marcos being part of it which is not true at all.There is no Army unit like this not even the SG which comes under the Army.RAW used to have two teams CIT-X and CIT-J for these missions and Marcos were not a part of it as far as i know.
> 
> I dont like fake stories comming out of people newly joining the forum..and i have decided that as long as i decide to invest my time here i am going to strongly oppose any such fake stories just to make Indian SF "look cool".




let me tell you one thing bro... every jawan is jawan he serve country selflessly, keyboard ninjas like you and me wont understand that,cause we are not on field and are not facing the problem.
and every soldier is great for me whether a elite Marine form Navy or foot soldier form Indian Army.
JAI HIND.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

prandtl said:


> let me tell you one thing bro... every jawan is jawan he serve country selflessly, keyboard ninjas like you and me wont understand that,cause we are not on field and are not facing the problem.
> and every soldier is great for me whether a elite Marine form Navy or foot soldier form Indian Army.
> JAI HIND.



Those who are spending their youth in forests searching for the terrorists...Those who return to field operations every 3 years...those who even after being "regulars" face more action than any special unit...Those who dont see their kids grow...and attend marriages....

Are the brave JAWANS of the Indian Army and not Marcos and Garuds.

Jai Hind!


----------



## hkdas

prandtl said:


> let me tell you one thing bro... every jawan is jawan he serve country selflessly, keyboard ninjas like you and me wont understand that,cause we are not on field and are not facing the problem.
> and every soldier is great for me whether a elite Marine form Navy or foot soldier form Indian Army.
> JAI HIND.



bro, i'm an unlucky guy who never join the National Defence Academy despite passing the NDA exam. that is why i become _as you said_ a keyboard ninja. yes you are right only soldier will understand another soldier. 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR misunderstood what i said. i was asking, what if marcos got an information of a terrorist hideout 1 or 2 km from wular lake or jhelum river, did they inform army and requist them for conducting the operation or they them self eliminate the terrorists who are hiding only some distance away form marcos's base with army's blessings? obviously marcos will conduct that operation. i was not disrespecting any soldier or army. i know army is sacrificing a lot in Kashmir and i respect them a lot. and i was not saying that marcos are conducting a James bond style operation. i agree all the things COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has said.

anyway lets stop this here.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, i'm an unlucky guy who never join the National Defence Academy despite passing the NDA exam. that is why i become _as you said_ a keyboard ninja. yes you are right only soldier will understand another soldier.
> 
> COLDHEARTED AVIATOR misunderstood what i said. i was asking, what if marcos got an information of a terrorist hideout 1 or 2 km from wular lake or jhelum river, did they inform army and requist them for conducting the operation or they them self eliminate the terrorists who are hiding only some distance away form marcos's base with army's blessings? obviously marcos will conduct that operation. i was not disrespecting any soldier or army. i know army is sacrificing a lot in Kashmir and i respect them a lot. and i was not saying that marcos are conducting a James bond style operation. i agree all the things COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has said.
> 
> anyway lets stop this here.



Mate,its obvious that marcos would conduct any operation with 5 -10 kms within Wular lake.Anyways lets stop it here.

Regarding being an internet warrior..I wanna tell you as a friend that its everyones personal choice to choose a career of their liking.Everyone is not fit to join the Armed forces and no one can dare snatch anyone right to comment on anything coz if that was the case then 1 billion plus people wont have the right to comment on cricket.

Those who think that carrying a gun and killing the enemy is the only way to be patriortic are idiots...you can be as much patriotic as a soldier even if you decide to clean your society gutter...As a taxpayer to the indian government you have earned the right to comment on anything in this democratic country..and no one can advice you on that.

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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mate,its obvious that marcos would conduct any operation with 5 -10 kms within Wular lake.Anyways lets stop it here.
> 
> Regarding being an internet warrior..I wanna tell you as a friend that its everyones personal choice to choose a career of their liking.Everyone is not fit to join the Armed forces and no one can dare snatch anyone right to comment on anything coz if that was the case then 1 billion plus people wont have the right to comment on cricket.
> 
> Those who think that carrying a gun and killing the enemy is the only way to be patriortic are idiots...you can be as much patriotic as a soldier even if you decide to clean your society gutter...As a taxpayer to the indian government you have earned the right to comment on anything in this democratic country..and no one can advice you on that.




Bhai tu gussa kam kiya kar sar fut jayenga Tera kabhi


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> Bhai tu gussa kam kiya kar sar fut jayenga Tera kabhi



Bhai mein gusse mein nahi hu...normally kuch bat share karna gussa nahi hota.lagta hein agli bar se jyada smiley dal k bolunga..

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## sms

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mate,its obvious that marcos would conduct any operation with 5 -10 kms within Wular lake.Anyways lets stop it here.
> 
> Regarding being an internet warrior..I wanna tell you as a friend that its everyones personal choice to choose a career of their liking.Everyone is not fit to join the Armed forces and no one can dare snatch anyone right to comment on anything coz if that was the case then 1 billion plus people wont have the right to comment on cricket.
> 
> Those who think that carrying a gun and killing the enemy is the only way to be patriortic are idiots...you can be as much patriotic as a soldier even if you decide to clean your society gutter...As a taxpayer to the indian government you have earned the right to comment on anything in this democratic country..and no one can advice you on that.




Itna gussa theek nahi yaara. Jyada gusse se kidni pe jor pare ga or ghootne me dara ho jayega. So save your kidni (bheja) and ghootna,

Regarding Marcos/ PARA SF/ Garuda .. Para SF got max exp in High altitude, Jungle and urban warfare and will any day excel if it comes to the competition between our elite forces.


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## bornmoron

sab sorry sorry bol rahe hai,,,kitna pyaar hai ,,,Accha hai,,,,


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

sms said:


> Itna gussa theek nahi yaara. Jyada gusse se kidni pe jor pare ga or ghootne me dara ho jayega. So save your kidni (bheja) and ghootna,
> 
> Regarding Marcos/ PARA SF/ Garuda .. Para SF got max exp in High altitude, Jungle and urban warfare and will any day excel if it comes to the competition between our elite forces.



Bhai mein ekdum normal hu..maybe i should use an extra smiley next time...  like this


@ Everyone

Now lets focus on SF...and related discussions please.


----------



## Abingdonboy

My latest vid:

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## Abingdonboy

Abingdonboy said:


> My latest vid:


 @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR what do you think? "your guys" in action


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR what do you think? "your guys" in action



Finally..thanks for putting in so much efforts.

But i am still waiting for your CIJWS video.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Finally..thanks for putting in so much efforts.
> 
> But i am still waiting for your CIJWS video.



Yeah, I ran into some significant technical difficulties ie my PC melted before my eyes, so I have only very recently been able to get back on these neglected projects. I hope to have the CIJWS vid completed within 48 hours bro.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah, I ran into some significant technical difficulties ie my PC melted before my eyes, so I have only very recently been able to get back on these neglected projects. I hope to have the CIJWS vid completed within 48 hours bro.



Take your time...Real life commitments should come first.


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## Armstrong

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah, I ran into some significant technical difficulties ie *my PC melted before my eyes*, so I have only very recently been able to get back on these neglected projects. I hope to have the CIJWS vid completed within 48 hours bro.



Metaphorically I hope !


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## Dillinger

Armstrong said:


> Metaphorically I hope !



Butty you are ignoring me!

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## Abingdonboy

Armstrong said:


> Metaphorically I hope !


Nope, literally! But I got a MacBook out of it so it worked out in the end

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Terrorists attack Jammu..my friends got caught in the gunfire..If there is anything special i would share...

This is how our life in jammu and kashmir is and thatswhy i say internet knowledge cant match real life experiences...

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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Terrorists attack Jammu..my friends got caught in the gunfire..If there is anything special i would share...
> 
> This is how our life in jammu and kashmir is and thatswhy i say internet knowledge cant match real life experiences...



Hope he is all rite


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> Hope he is all rite



My friend is fine...but his friend got hit.

He is saying tanks are rolling everywhere in Samba and choppers are hovering....He is 500 mtrs from the place where the action is now..


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> My friend is fine...but his friend got hit.
> 
> He is saying tanks are rolling everywhere in Samba and choppers are hovering....He is 500 mtrs from the place where the action is now..



I saw a pic of some T-72s rolling in the area. They left the clean up to the surgical guys though:


Special forces moved to eliminate remaining terrorists in Samba : North, News - India Today


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN RAMBO

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I saw a pic of some T-72s rolling in the area. They left the clean up to the surgical guys though:
> 
> 
> Special forces moved to eliminate remaining terrorists in Samba : North, News - India Today



Ya this is what i was trying to ask but an average Indian doesnt know about SF....moreover his friend got hit so he was busy rushing him to the hospital.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The only place where COBRA wear a helmet is the parade ground.


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya this is what i was trying to ask but an average Indian doesnt know about SF....moreover his friend got hit so he was busy rushing him to the hospital.



Fair enough!



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The only place where COBRA wear a helmet is the parade ground.



Yeah I was thinking the same but then these guys are Jungle warriors and no respectable force would be doing these guys' jobs in those things. If they ever had to conduct urban assualt/CQB then they'd bring them out. It's a real shame though actually because the CAPFs with the best helmets don't seem to use them all that often!


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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando great pics! Keep them coming!!


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## Unknowncommando

HELMETS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando




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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando do you have any connections inside the CRPF bro?


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## Unknowncommando

RAMBOS OF CRPF

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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR any pics of SFs involved in today's operations?


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Roybot

The Cobras are looking badass, battle hardened.


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## Unknowncommando

OFFICER

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

AA JAO BHAI LOGO KHANA KHALE.................

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NOTICE THAT SIGHT ON GUN GUYS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NOTICE THAT SIGHT ON GUN GUYS


I wonder if the operator bough the sight out of his own pocket or if this will be standard issue from now on?


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

COBRAs COBRAs EVERYWHERE COBRAs

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## Roybot

Abingdonboy said:


> I wonder if the operator bough the sight out of his own pocket or if this will be standard issue from now on?



I doubt you can buy military grade scopes in India as an individual.

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## Abingdonboy

Roybot said:


> I doubt you can buy military grade scopes in India as an individual.



Hmmm, that's a good point! 


So even better- these are being issued out by CAPFs!


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## Unknowncommando

THIS IS THE REAL BADASS PIC

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

THE BADASS SPG

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## Unknowncommando



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR any pics of SFs involved in today's operations?



No..i am not in Jammu and my friend couldnt take any.When your friend gets hit then taking pics is the last thing you wanna think about..


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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No..i am not in Jammu and my friend couldnt take any.When your friend gets hit then taking pics is the last thing you wanna think about..



Of course bro- I fully understand!


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## Unknowncommando



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


>



Bomb Squad NSG.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

These guys are looking like a well experienced "dont fck with me" force....I respect their sacrifice and struggle...Tough guys.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

GARAM ME......




















ITS RAINING BADASS PICS TODAY

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> @Unknowncommando do you have any connections inside the CRPF bro?


no bro but the patriotic connection :p by the way my GF's bro is in CRPF :p

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> no bro but the patriotic connection :p by the way my GF's bro is in CRPF :p



Well okay! Great work in finding and posting all those pics even still!


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## rockstarIN

All those Ak's in tha above photos are 47 model or 74+

I mean which bullet they are using, 5.56 or 7.76?


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Well okay! Great work in finding and posting all those pics even still!


thanks bro.Its my job. 200 th page and 3000 posts. This thread is awesome.I will find more pics and will come back with a BANG....
JAI HIND !!!!

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## Unknowncommando

Bro they are AKMs with 7.62 mm rounds.

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## Abingdonboy

rockstarIN said:


> All those Ak's in tha above photos are 47 model or 74+
> 
> I mean which bullet they are using, 5.56 or 7.76?



7.62, I'm no AK expert but they aren't -74s.



Unknowncommando said:


>


I've noticed the USMC MARPAT jungle camo isn't exclusively worn by the COBRAs anymore but other CRPF units/regulars also. Maybe they will standardise this camo across the CRPF?


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> 7.62, I'm no AK expert but they aren't -74s.
> 
> 
> I've noticed the USMC MARPAT jungle camo isn't exclusively worn by the COBRAs anymore but other CRPF units/regulars also. Maybe they will standardise this camo across the CRPF?


yes bro i was thinking the same but i have seen digi camo only with Cobras and these personnel wearing that yellow patch on arm may be not for all soldiers i think. Bcoz no such pics. If u hav any pic then share it and if it is true then its a good news.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Well okay! Great work in finding and posting all those pics even still!



What do you wanna know about CRPF?


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## Unknowncommando

rockstarIN said:


> All those Ak's in tha above photos are 47 model or 74
> 
> I mean which bullet they are using, 5.56 or 7.76?


bro they are AKMs 7.62. Cobras mainly use them and AKs in less nos and they dnt use AK 74U. It is an smg but Cobras are using microtavor as smg with insas and insas 1B1 all 3 with 5.56 rounds.

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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bomb Squad NSG.


yaa he is from NSG but i didnt name hoping that all know and the watermark is of fb user who wrote cobra on that pic.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What do you wanna know about CRPF?



There's a few general questions I've got about COBRA and how they are operating in the anti-naxal fight thats all.


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## Unknowncommando

rockstarIN said:


> All those Ak's in tha above photos are 47 model or 74
> 
> I mean which bullet they are using, 5.56 or 7.76?


If u r confused in Identifing the difference between AK47 and AKM. The main difference is magzin structure AK47 magazin with curved grip on it in one direction and AKM magazin witn square pattern on it. Second difference is the front holder. In AK47 the holder is smooth and mainly of brown or orange in colour and in AKM the front holder has grip horizontal lines at bottom side and it is usually black in colour and brown and orange too. While AK74U is smaller in size than AK and AKM.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> There's a few general questions I've got about COBRA and how they are operating in the anti-naxal fight thats all.



Mail me the questions...I sometimes get to meet these CAPF guys.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mail me the questions...I sometimes get to meet these CAPF guys.



Will do bro, much appreciated


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## Shaped charge

the basic difference between Ak-47 and Ak-74(the assault rifle version not the Aksu-74) is the distinctive muzzle brake, the Ak-47 had round end to the barrel, AKM got the slight cut and Ak-74 onwards got the distinctive muzzle brake which the later AK-10x series followed, earlier AK-74s had bakelite n hence brownish mags n butt-stock but now all are black polymer...these are the aesthetic differences the main difference in reality is the calibre, 7.62 x 39 mm vs 5.45 x39 mm plus the recoil reducing refinements in the AK-74M and later kalashnikovs from AN-94 and AEK-971(project Abakan competition)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Special forces moved to eliminate remaining terrorists in Samba : North, News - India Today


Samba attack: Special Forces moved to eliminate remaining terrorists | Business Standard

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Special forces moved to eliminate remaining terrorists in Samba : North, News - India Today
> 
> 
> Samba attack: Special Forces moved to eliminate remaining terrorists | Business Standard






> Authorities moved commandos of 9 Para _regiment i_ *[NO SUCH THING FFS!!]*in helicopters to the shootout site. The Para commandos first carried out an aerial reconnaissance of the camp before landing there to neutralize the three terrorists.
> *"The Para commandos had identified the exact spot during the aerial recce from where the terrorists were returning the army fire. After landing, the commandos started engaging the terrorists in a direct gunfight, but in order to give them an impression that their exact spot of hiding had still not been identified, an abandoned building inside the camp was blasted.
> "This made the terrorists complacent that their hiding spot had not been yet been pin-pointed. They kept on intermittently returning the army fire till all three of them were eliminated," said defence sources.*





Battle of Samba: How army subdued fidayeens

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Battle of Samba: How army subdued fidayeens



Excellet stratergy..and The operators taking one on one tactis and showing how superior they are than their enemy not only in fitness and weaponry but smartness too.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Excellet stratergy..and The operators taking one on one tactis and showing how superior they are than their enemy not only in fitness and weaponry but smartness too.



Indeed and considering this was a direct action mission with little to no time for planning. The quick-thinking these guys demonstrated is hugely impressive.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> He fired at the terrorists and at the same time ensured that a tank inside the camp was driven to safety".



Battle of Samba: How army subdued fidayeens

For some Pakistanis who think we used tanks to counter terrorists..this line proves that unlike you our guys had the sense to realise that in fidayeen attacks assets would be targeted and need to be taken care first.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Excellet stratergy..and The operators taking one on one tactis and showing how superior they are than their enemy not only in fitness and weaponry but smartness too.



is 9-para is the most elite UNIT of army SF? always new weapons for the SF will first go to 9th para, like tavor, new helmet,3rd gen NVG etc


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> is 9-para is the most elite UNIT of army SF? always new weapons for the SF will first go to 9th para, like tavor, new helmet,3rd gen NVG etc



9 PARA is the most experienced of all SF units and their contribution to OP RAKSHAK(anti terror ops in valley) are unmatched by any other unit in India.

The amount of sacrifices and the objectives they have achieved are simply uncomparable.


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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA


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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

NSG OR ANY OTHER UNIT GUYS SEE THE SIGHT ON GUN































NSG 
posting these pics again someting went wrong with my pics posted earlier

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## Dillinger

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG OR ANY OTHER UNIT GUYS SEE THE SIGHT ON GUN
> 
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> NSG
> posting these pics again someting went wrong with my pics posted earlier



Bad resolution. Looks like an Elcan Specter from the silhouette. Its a standard red-*** sight (standard specter variants), or it is (specifically the DR variant) then a dual use red-*** cum telescopic sight. Although one is unlikely to require a telescopic sight on a SMG. So I'd go with the former and say its a Specter red-***. Could be another company's product- still would be a red-*** sight.


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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA

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## Unknowncommando



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## hkdas

This pic also dates back to 1989
MARCOS A.K Saxena (Black Belt in Martial Arts)
From the first batch of MARCOS
Deployed in operation Pawan, operation Cactus, operation operation Muffet, operation Leech & operation Tasha.
Trained at Palam Air Port, New Delhi for Air-Craft Intervention, Administration & Security, Anti -Terrorism, Anti-Hi-jacking and Commando Operations.
Trained at R.A.W New Delhi for the Specific Security & Administration Task assignment.
Trained at Special Group, Project Sunray, under the Army and Ministry of Home, Govt. of India. As MARCOS he is trained in every kind of Sophisticated Weapon and instruments for Operational Handling of Small Arms such as AK- 47, AKM, AKMS, MP-5, PISTOL, 9 MM Carbine, SLR, LMG, MMG, Kalgostav 85 MM, Crossbows to Sniper Rifles with telescopic, Rocket Launcher, submachine guns & I.E.D&#8217;s. 
Trained at Indian Naval Establishment INS Abhimanyu, Mumbai for Under Water Commando Operations. Special Air Service and halo jumps at open Sea, Repelling down on Board Ships, MARTIAL Art, and liaison with civil authorities & Area of Specialization in Administration/Planning/Logistics/Materials/Procurement/Supply & Chain Management
Trained at 22 Establishments, Sarsawa, U.P for Para trooping, Sky Dive, Sliding, & Slithering / Repelling, Room and Bus intervention. 
Trained at Military Intelligence College, Pune - Particular for Vigilance, Intelligence and VIP / VVIP Security & Administration,
Trained at Naval Aviation Technical Institute &#8211; Kochin State of Kerala for basic knowledge about Air Crafts and trained in Motor driving training (Light & Heavy)


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## special

hkdas said:


> This pic also dates back to 1989
> MARCOS A.K Saxena (Black Belt in Martial Arts)
> From the first batch of MARCOS
> Deployed in operation Pawan, operation Cactus, operation operation Muffet, operation Leech & operation Tasha.
> Trained at Palam Air Port, New Delhi for Air-Craft Intervention, Administration & Security, Anti -Terrorism, Anti-Hi-jacking and Commando Operations.
> Trained at R.A.W New Delhi for the Specific Security & Administration Task assignment.
> Trained at Special Group, Project Sunray, under the Army and Ministry of Home, Govt. of India. As MARCOS he is trained in every kind of Sophisticated Weapon and instruments for Operational Handling of Small Arms such as AK- 47, AKM, AKMS, MP-5, PISTOL, 9 MM Carbine, SLR, LMG, MMG, Kalgostav 85 MM, Crossbows to Sniper Rifles with telescopic, Rocket Launcher, submachine guns & I.E.D&#8217;s.
> Trained at Indian Naval Establishment INS Abhimanyu, Mumbai for Under Water Commando Operations. Special Air Service and halo jumps at open Sea, Repelling down on Board Ships, MARTIAL Art, and liaison with civil authorities & Area of Specialization in Administration/Planning/Logistics/Materials/Procurement/Supply & Chain Management
> Trained at 22 Establishments, Sarsawa, U.P for Para trooping, Sky Dive, Sliding, & Slithering / Repelling, Room and Bus intervention.
> Trained at Military Intelligence College, Pune - Particular for Vigilance, Intelligence and VIP / VVIP Security & Administration,
> Trained at Naval Aviation Technical Institute &#8211; Kochin State of Kerala for basic knowledge about Air Crafts and trained in Motor driving training (Light & Heavy)



Abnesh Saxena, MARCOS - India | LinkedIn


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> is 9-para is the most elite UNIT of army SF? always new weapons for the SF will first go to 9th para, like tavor, new helmet,3rd gen NVG etc



That's not actually how these things will go now. At one time yes the PARA (SF) btns were organised along the lines of specialty ie one would specilise in jungle warfare, another in deserts, another in mountain etc etc. But the SFs long since got rid of this. Now all SF btns are all-fliers who are trained and proficient in all. Yes certain btns may have more decorations and more of a respected lineage but that is rather irrelevant. Training and equipment is standardised. There's no hierarchy though amongst the SF btns. 

On the whole 9 PARA (SF) have been the "heavy hitters" in the JK valley with other SF btns also rotating their men through the valley working alongside the 9th. Similarly the 21st PARA (SF) btn have Been primarily charged with the fight in India's NE. 


The 9th have a great history for sure though.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> That's not actually how these things will go now. At one time yes the PARA (SF) btns were organised along the lines of specialty ie one would specilise in jungle warfare, another in deserts, another in mountain etc etc. But the SFs long since got rid of this. Now all SF btns are all-fliers who are trained and proficient in all. Yes certain btns may have more decorations and more of a respected lineage but that is rather irrelevant. Training and equipment is standardised. There's no hierarchy though amongst the SF btns.
> 
> On the whole 9 PARA (SF) have been the "heavy hitters" in the JK valley with other SF btns also rotating their men through the valley working alongside the 9th. Similarly the 21st PARA (SF) btn have Been primarily charged with the fight in India's NE.
> 
> 
> The 9th have a great history for sure though.



What you said about the speciality thing has also been mentioned various times by various sources but personally i feel its a little different.

All SF units send their men to Kashmir for experience and all units train together..but the thing is that we still have a SF unit named Desert Scorpions in Rajasthan for cross border raids SAS style and i personally dont think that 9 PARA or 21 PARA is ever gonna take their area of speciality and they will continue to operrate in Rajasthan only.They might go to Kashmir for experience and officers and other ranks from other units would get to work with them but i dont think they are ever gonna replace them.

Every unit is an all rounder but i still believe that the speciality thing is still going.That is the reason i believe 9 PARA has seen more in Kashmir and according to the high profile army officer that i once got to interact with there are few Para units trained specifically for cross border surgical strikes and they train all round the year...I dont think Desert Scorpions gonna do that ever on LOC.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Does any one have any info on who is responsible for the security of Naval and Air Chiefs.Like PARA SF are responsible for the Army Chief's security..so are Marcos and Garuds in charge?Does anyone have any pics?


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## Gessler

@Abingdonboy Hi mate, can you post some pictures of CRPF with Tavors?

Not CoBRA, just normal CRPF?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Does any one have any info on who is responsible for the security of Naval and Air Chiefs.Like PARA SF are responsible for the Army Chief's security..so are Marcos and Garuds in charge?Does anyone have any pics?



I doubt the Naval Cheif has MARCOs BGs and whilst there is a possibility that the ACM is protected by Garuds I doubt it. But for sure during high profile events Garuds and even the MARCOs have been used for protection duties.


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## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> @Abingdonboy Hi mate, can you post some pictures of CRPF with Tavors?
> 
> Not CoBRA, just normal CRPF?









There are many others and when I get to a computer I'll post some more bro.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I doubt the Naval Cheif has MARCOs BGs and whilst there is a possibility that the ACM is protected by Garuds I doubt it. But for sure during high profile events Garuds and even the MARCOs have been used for protection duties.



No pics available too.


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> There are many others and when I get to a computer I'll post some more bro.


bro tell me CRPF or J k police. Do CRPF WEAR police khaki or jk police use tavors 
https://fbcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.n...720/1383457_1392061721026777_1318602186_n.jpg


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> bro tell me CRPF or J k police. Do CRPF WEAR police khaki or jk police use tavors
> https://fbcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.n...720/1383457_1392061721026777_1318602186_n.jpg



I used to live close to a CRPF camp in Jammu.The CRPF in cold days wears full sleeve Khaki like the rest of the Police.You can go and check this anywhere.

Still i know people here dont wanna listen and assume things..so heres something for you...






















Hope these pics satisfies your doubt...


And bro,You are absolutely right.J&K SOG and Police use Tavor.You know why...coz they do under cover operations most of the time and they wanna show the Pakistani terrorists that "look you SOAB we are using Tavors" and get their *** grilled by Pakistani bullets doing under cover operation.

Great logic...


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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I used to live close to a CRPF camp in Jammu.The CRPF in cold days wears full sleeve Khaki like the rest of the Police.You can go and check this anywhere.
> 
> Still i know people here dont wanna listen and assume things..so heres something for you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope these pics satisfies your doubt...
> 
> 
> And bro,You are absolutely right.J&K SOG and Police use Tavor.You know why...coz they do under cover operations most of the time and they wanna show the Pakistani terrorists that "look you SOAB we are using Tavors" and get their *** grilled by Pakistani bullets doing under cover operation.
> 
> Great logic...


bhai mere thats why i asked que didnt make statement . Ya earlier i did but then i realise that i was wrong. U have seen them closely and lived with them so u obily know better than anyone. Tu toh yaar game lene lag gaya mera. And that was not logic bro i saw a jk police carrying a tavor, in a news channel and id him as a police by his arm patch not by seeing his uniform only. Aur mai kabhi badha chadhakar nahi bolta armed forces ke bare me. Well enough, thanks bro for this info ,tune meri ankhe khol di. I am fully satisfied with ur ans. My doubt is cleared now.

JAI HIND!!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> bhai mere thats why i asked que didnt make statement . Ya earlier i did but then i realise that i was wrong. U have seen them closely and lived with them so u obily know better than anyone. Tu toh yaar game lene lag gaya mera. And that was not logic bro i saw a jk police carrying a tavor, in a news channel and id him as a police by his arm patch not by seeing his uniform only. Aur mai kabhi badha chadhakar nahi bolta armed forces ke bare me. Well enough, thanks bro for this info ,tune meri ankhe khol di. I am fully satisfied with ur ans. My doubt is cleared now.
> 
> JAI HIND!!!



Bhai mere..dusre thread mein bhi meine yehi bat boli thi.Tab toh teri aankhein nhi khuli na...isliye fir detail mein samjhaya.

Game nahi le rha hu teri...but thode maze lene mein kya fark padhta hein 

My apologies if you are offended. 

Keep up the good work.


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## sms

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And bro,You are absolutely right.J*&K SOG and Police use Tavor*.You know why...coz they do *under cover operations* most of the time and they wanna *show the Pakistani terrorists* that "look you SOAB we are using Tavors" and get their *** grilled by Pakistani bullets doing under cover operation.
> 
> Great logic...



LOL that does not make sense!! 
It's like moving around WITH beacon in hand, too easy to spot them

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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bhai mere..dusre thread mein bhi meine yehi bat boli thi.Tab toh teri aankhein nhi khuli na...isliye fir detail mein samjhaya.
> 
> Game nahi le rha hu teri...but thode maze lene mein kya fark padhta hein
> 
> My apologies if you are offended.
> 
> Keep up the good work.



toh bhai jaan i havnt written the word (undercover) in my history on PDF toh bhai tune kaha se ye logic aur undercover wali baat paida kar li . Sapna gira tha kya. Isiliye mai bola. Waise mujhe bura nahi laga. hasi, mazak, game lena toh chalta rehta hai. Again thanks for ur gread cooperation. Aur ek baat maze lena aur game lena ek hi baat hai khaas kar ke NAGPUR ka word hai game lena. Dhyan me rakhio mere bhai.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> toh bhai jaan i havnt written the word (undercover) in my history on PDF toh bhai tune kaha se ye logic aur undercover wali baat paida kar li . Sapna gira tha kya. Isiliye mai bola. Waise mujhe bura nahi laga. hasi, mazak, game lena toh chalta rehta hai. Again thanks for ur gread cooperation. Aur ek baat maze lena aur game lena ek hi baat hai khaas kar ke NAGPUR ka word hai game lena. Dhyan me rakhio mere bhai.



Yaar,I think that you are forgetting that in the thread Indian Military Pictures you were the one who said "J&K Police use Tavor in LARGE NUMBERS"...When you can halucinate of the highest cateogary....why the hell cant i take your case in this thread? 

I like people who dont assume things and talk big.

Sach se judey raho..apni game bajna bachao... 

Aur bhai Nagpur ho ya Kanpur....bhai k maze koi nahi le sakta kyunki aj tak kisi mai k lal n bhai ki kahi bat galat nhi prove ki hein  Thatswhy i dont comment on most things and the day i am proved wrong i would 'apologise' and 'accept' rather than keep proving my point.

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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yaar,I think that you are forgetting that in the thread Indian Military Pictures you were the one who said "J&K Police use Tavor in LARGE NUMBERS"...When you can halucinate of the highest cateogary....why the hell cant i take your case in this thread?
> 
> I like people who dont assume things and talk big.
> 
> Sach se judey raho..apni game bajna bachao...
> 
> Aur bhai Nagpur ho ya Kanpur....bhai k maze koi nahi le sakta kyunki aj tak kisi mai k lal n bhai ki kahi bat galat nhi prove ki hein  Thatswhy i dont comment on most things and the day i am proved wrong i would 'apologise' and 'accept' rather than keep proving my point.



ha bhai maine already kahi hai ye baat mere msg me isiliye is baar pucha tha. Galti ho gayi maaf kardo. Ho jati hai galtiya aur vaise bhi ek hi hui thi mere se tune uska bhi issue bana diya. Agli baar se fact hogi toh hi bolunga. We are going off the topic bro menu sfs ke pics dhudhne de. Tu bhi baat ko badhate mat ja tu ne dusre baar acche se samjhaya lekin baad me apne man se undercover wali story banakar matter bana diya. Chal jane de agli baar se badi baat hi karunga. Tu toh khudko bada bhai samazta hai toh ab kya kar sakte hai :p.

Jai Hind !!!!

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## Roybot

> An Indian Air Force commando demonstrates his skill at an event to mark 81st anniversary celebration of the Force at Chabua in Dibrugarh. Photo: PTI



Garud looking bad as

@Abingdonboy, @Dillinger, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Roybot said:


> Garud looking bad as
> 
> @Abingdonboy, @Dillinger, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR.



"Badass" doesnt do justice man.He looks deadly...i like their camo but i am not sure how well its gonna work.



Unknowncommando said:


> ha bhai maine already kahi hai ye baat mere msg me isiliye is baar pucha tha. Galti ho gayi maaf kardo. Ho jati hai galtiya aur vaise bhi ek hi hui thi mere se tune uska bhi issue bana diya. Agli baar se fact hogi toh hi bolunga. We are going off the topic bro menu sfs ke pics dhudhne de. Tu bhi baat ko badhate mat ja tu ne dusre baar acche se samjhaya lekin baad me apne man se undercover wali story banakar matter bana diya. Chal jane de agli baar se badi baat hi karunga. Tu toh khudko bada bhai samazta hai toh ab kya kar sakte hai :p.
> 
> Jai Hind !!!!



Hahaha 

Jai hind!

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## Roybot

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> "Badass" doesnt do justice man.He looks deadly...*i like their camo but i am not sure how well its gonna work.*



He is the only one in that camo, kinda odd. 

This is this other photo on PTI website, but can't find high resolution. 





@Assault Rifle, mate can you get us the high resolution pic for this? You work for NDTV if am not wrong, you should have access to PTI images?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Roybot said:


> He is the only one in that camo, kinda odd.
> 
> This is this other photo on PTI website, but can't find high resolution.



Garuds are a well equipped unit.I like the way they and Marcos have carefully sidelined themselves from the standard IA camo.

And hatsoff to them because i see them all wearing a decent helmet..This is what i dont like about the IA SF.You rarely get to see them with a standard kit.


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## Dillinger

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR HATING the new camo- HOPING it ain't the new camo- Actually the best Garud pic till date was posted by either you or Abi (apologies if I am mis-attributing it) 






Now if only they would provide cammo covers for the helmet and ensure that the kevlar underneath the assaulter's vest conformed to the cammo scheme too. I swear if I were RM the first thing I'd do is fix is the cammo mismatch- its not about aesthetics- a cammo is picked for a reason and non-standardization beats the whole point.

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## Unknowncommando

Roybot said:


> He is the only one in that camo, kinda odd.
> 
> This is this other photo on PTI website, but can't find high resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Assault Rifle, mate can you get us the high resolution pic for this? You work for NDTV if am not wrong, you should have access to PTI images?


what should be done for sikh soldiers. one of them is wearing pagadi and no protection for head. kevlar pagadi would be better option INDIA should work on it for our sikh soldiers.we should develop a helmet for them.i think.


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## me_itsme

The gloves what they are wearing is primarily used for "fast roping". I do not think it would be too comfy to pull the trigger wearing those gloves as they seem too big and the finger would face obstacles inside the trigger guard.

Edit - I m talking about the picture where the operator is wearing that odd camo.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dillinger said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR HATING the new camo- HOPING it ain't the new camo- Actually the best Garud pic till date was posted by either you or Abi (apologies if I am mis-attributing it)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if only they would provide cammo covers for the helmet and ensure that the kevlar underneath the assaulter's vest conformed to the cammo scheme too. I swear if I were RM the first thing I'd do is fix is the cammo mismatch- its not about aesthetics- a cammo is picked for a reason and non-standardization beats the whole point.



What i thought was that this pic is of Kashmir where in spring season this might be the best camo.But like i said i doubt how effective it might be on the whole.I too hate the fact that the Indian forces dont pay attention to the mismatch and covering helmets with camo is what you dont regularly get to see with the Indian forces.

All this should be over with the F-INSAS programme being inducted.


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## Dillinger

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What i thought was that this pic is of Kashmir where in spring season this might be the best camo.But like i said i doubt how effective it might be on the whole.I too hate the fact that the Indian forces dont pay attention to the mismatch and covering helmets with camo is what you dont regularly get to see with the Indian forces.
> 
> All this should be over with the F-INSAS programme being inducted.



Don't count on it. Sipahi, jawaan or officer, bhai ye log thodi na acquisition kartein hain. Ye sab to babu logon ka kaam hai.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

me_itsme said:


> The gloves what they are wearing is primarily used for "fast roping". I do not think it would be too comfy to pull the trigger wearing those gloves as they seem too big and the finger would face obstacles inside the trigger guard.
> 
> Edit - I m talking about the picture where the operator is wearing that odd camo.



Yup,thats what i thought.I am a bike lover and good quality gloves are not that expensive.I bought a pair recently and it cost me 500 bucks.So why cant the Indian SF units buy and equip everyone.Heres what i got








Dillinger said:


> Don't count on it. Sipahi, jawaan or officer, bhai ye log thodi na acquisition kartein hain. Ye sab to babu logon ka kaam hai.



Yeah,everyone is upset with the camo situation.Even the IA officers are not happy.But it is something beyond their control and they realise that.



Unknowncommando said:


> what should be done for sikh soldiers. one of them is wearing pagadi and no protection for head. kevlar pagadi would be better option INDIA should work on it for our sikh soldiers.we should develop a helmet for them.i think.



Sikhs are some the brave soldiers that we have.With no disrespect for Sikh religion i would say that Sikh soldiers should change the way they wear their patka like what Monty Panesar does and they would be comfortable wearing the helmet.


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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDS










some old pics

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

ya bro but i would go for gloves which paras use bcoz they are cut on fingers so that in case of checking pulse of an injured person while combat there should be no need of taking them off bcoz every second is imp in any mission. And the gloves should be kevlar which can be use for combat as well as for useful for fast roping. And these gloves looks cool. Talking about sikh regiment. They are brave people no dbt abt that. bhai itne saare soldiers kaise apne pagadi pehne ka style change kar sakte hai. It is not impossible but little bit difficult. And it will look odd if one sf member wear an patka helmet and others wearing ballistic kevlar.


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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF



are you sure he is in SF? i think he is just from PR. there is no "special forces" tag on his shoulder.


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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> are you sure he is in SF? i think he is just from PR. there is no "special forces" tag on his shoulder.



may be bro but they dnt wear that special forces tag always .i think he is a COAS BG in earlier images there were no tags on there shoulder. U may be right. Let someone else ans this i am getting little confused.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> may be bro but they dnt wear that special forces tag always .i think he is a COAS BG in earlier images there were no tags on there shoulder. U may be right. Let someone else ans this i am getting little confused.



AFAIK only SF operators can become Chief's BG.

I am not too sure though.

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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> AFAIK only SF operators can become Chief's BG.
> 
> I am not too sure though.


then he must be para sf


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> AFAIK only SF operators can become Chief's BG.
> 
> I am not too sure though.



Technically he is not a BG bro but sort of QRT/CAT. All 3 service chiefs have military police dressed in civilian dress as close protection officers.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Technically he is not a BG bro but sort of QRT/CAT. All 3 service chiefs have military police dressed in civilian dress as close protection officers.



AFAIK MP are only for the convoi protection or QRT.Whereas these guys walk around with the Chief.


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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUD


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## Unknowncommando

SPG CAT





NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF WITH BOLLYWOOD STAR RANBIR KAPOOR

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## Unknowncommando

SPG CAT

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## Unknowncommando

COAS BGs PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG .First time mp5 SD for VVIP


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## Unknowncommando

NEW TAVOR





CRPF COBRA


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Mujraparty

Dhoni with Para SF ...?

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## Hulk

eowyn said:


> Dhoni with Para SF ...?



I am not pleased at maron being given to Dhoni. I feel those should be used only by deserving.


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## Unknowncommando

CRPFCOBRA


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

eowyn said:


> Dhoni with Para SF ...?



Not SF..Territorial Army Parachute Regtt.

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## Unknowncommando



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## special

india TV says this is IA SF. but looks like Ghatak to me. 

Video News - Breaking News videos, Videos News Headlines, Live News Videos, News Videos Online - India TV News


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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> india TV says this is IA SF. but looks like Ghatak to me.
> 
> Video News - Breaking News videos, Videos News Headlines, Live News Videos, News Videos Online - India TV News


YES BRO i have same doubt i was supposed to post that one. i thinkthey are para not sf


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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> prn2/1262970_1393932914172991_1233885809_o.jpg[/IMG]



ya, this is man also seen on NDTV's wathan ka regwalw (HAL druv) as ghatks.

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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> ya, the army personal talking to the reporter is also seen on NDTV's wathan ka regwalw (HAL druv).


YA BRO HE IS THE SAME GUYS WHO WAS CARRYING AN UZI IN DHRUV DOCTRY


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> india TV says this is IA SF. but looks like Ghatak to me.
> 
> Video News - Breaking News videos, Videos News Headlines, Live News Videos, News Videos Online - India TV News



Bro,GHATAKs are not airborne.So they are either from Parachute regtt or SF.Now the reporter is insisting that they are from SF but i havent seen them with Tavor.So i am guessing they are from Para regtt.

By the way i am impressed by their Martial Arts and weapon handling skill.

@Abingdonboy

Bro,No Tavor...what do you say?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,GHATAKs are not airborne.So they are either from Parachute regtt or SF.Now the reporter is insisting that they are from SF but i havent seen them with Tavor.So i am guessing they are from Para regtt.
> 
> By the way i am impressed by their Martial Arts and weapon handling skill.
> 
> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Bro,No Tavor...what do you say?



This is interesting/weird. My guess is they're not SF because every single SF BTN has switched over to the Tavor years ago now even the AIRBORNE (non-SF) btns have mostly done so also. Not really sure what to make of this then.



But did anyone notice at 9.34-, is that a MARCO?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> This is interesting/weird. My guess is they're not SF because every single SF BTN has switched over to the Tavor years ago now even the AIRBORNE (non-SF) btns have mostly done so also. Not really sure what to make of this then.
> 
> 
> 
> But did anyone notice at 9.34-, is that a MARCO?



I think this is an old video which got uploaded recently.(2 years old maybe)

Ya..looks like Marcos..This video is of Agra where Garuds and Para Commandos are know to take their 1st jump because the AF has specialised school for that.So i am not surprised to see Marcos there.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I think this is an old video which got uploaded recently.(2 years old maybe)
> 
> Ya..looks like Marcos..This video is of Agra where Garuds and Para Commandos are know to take their 1st jump because the AF has specialised school for that.So i am not surprised to see Marcos there.



I was thinking it could be an old vid that was recently re-uploaded or something like that. And right, it isn't unexpected to see MARCOs there to undertake the same para jump training as the others SOFs.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I was thinking it could be an old vid that was recently re-uploaded or something like that. And right, it isn't unexpected to see MARCOs there to undertake the same para jump training as the others SOFs.



Ya bro,like it wont be surprising to see Para SF operators in the Naval Combat Diving school in Kerala.


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## Hindustani

Unknowncommando said:


>



$ hit look at this guy's bicep and forearm! Hate to be in a hand to hand combat with him


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hindustani said:


> $ hit look at this guy's bicep and forearm! Hate to be in a hand to hand combat with him



I fear a bigger forearm more than a bigger bicep.


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

COBRA


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## Unknowncommando




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## vivINDIAN

i wanted to ask about our para commandos running/jogging upto 60-70kms with 22kg backpack.
do they really run continuously for full 60 kms or run/jog 8-10km and walk for couple kms to catch breath and again start running or anything like that?? running/jogging continuously like that can seriously damage muscle tissue and other body organs.


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## Koovie

vivINDIAN said:


> i wanted to ask about our para commandos running/jogging upto 60-70kms with 22kg backpack.
> do they really run continuously for full 60 kms or run/jog 8-10km and walk for couple kms to catch breath and again start running or anything like that?? running/jogging continuously like that can seriously damage muscle tissue and other body organs.



No one runs for such distances with such weights continuously


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## vivINDIAN

Koovie said:


> No one runs for such distances with such weights continuously



u have any idea how they do it??


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## Unknowncommando

Bhai log INDIAN MARCO or soldier of other country





OLD MARCO PIC


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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS





GARUDS


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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> Bhai log INDIAN MARCO or soldier of other country



USN VBSS.


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## Unknowncommando

saumyasupratik said:


> USN VBSS.



thanks buddy for that.


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## Unknowncommando

SPG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

vivINDIAN said:


> i wanted to ask about our para commandos running/jogging upto 60-70kms with 22kg backpack.
> do they really run continuously for full 60 kms or run/jog 8-10km and walk for couple kms to catch breath and again start running or anything like that?? running/jogging continuously like that can seriously damage muscle tissue and other body organs.




Watch from 6:15

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## Unknowncommando



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The great betrayal - The New Indian Express

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## Unknowncommando

COBRA BDS member
Guys what is that thing on his right hand ?

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> COBRA BDS member
> Guys what is that thing on his right hand ?



Controls for the suit I'd assume. Those things have cooling, lighting and comms all built in.

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## Unknowncommando

COBRA


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## Bhai Zakir

*OCTOPUS (Organization To Counter Terrorist Operations) *

The initial training for Octopus personnel shall be on Explosives, Un-Armed Combat, Rock Climbing, Firing, Kill Hut, Room Intervention, Tactics, Obstacles, Communication, Computers and Map Reading, among other courses.

Thereafter, regular periodical training shall be imparted continuously to keep the men fighting fit. The Training Wing shall be established at the headquarters, Hyderabad. In addition, the head of Octopus is permitted to engage experts in specialized skills on a contract basis from among the ex-NSG, Para Commandos and Special Frontier Forces, in the ranks of DIG/SP-1, Inspectors/SIs-5 and HCs-5.


The new outfit from scratch. *OCTOPUS will initially have strength of 1,600 personnel.* OCTOPUS will be patterned after Greyhounds (the anti-Maoist elite commando force) and Special Intelligence Bureau (which gathers intelligence on Maoist activities in the state).
*
Personnel will be inducted into OCTOPUS through direct recruitment and special deputation from other wings of the state police. They will be given specialized training and offered higher pay and perks.*

The Intelligence and Analysis Wing of OCTOPUS will collect intelligence at sub-divisional, district, commissionerate, metropolitan and state levels. Technical Intelligence Wing will have forensic, cyber and communication monitoring cells. Its Research & Analysis Wing will take up data interpretation, news analysis of print and electronic media besides inter-agency coordination and planning.

The Operations Wing of OCTOPUS will undertake surveillance through watch and shadow teams and recording and interception of communications. For field operations, assault teams, including bomb disposal squads, will be located at strategic locations.

Rescue teams will be formed with para-medicos and ambulances for speedy medical assistance to victims in case of terror attacks. Coordination and communication teams will also be constituted.

OCTOPUS also function as an investigation team for collection of evidence and scientific deduction with experts and forensic scientists and dog squads. It will also take up prosecution of terror-related cases.

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## Bhai Zakir

*Puttur action was OCTOPUS commando force's first strike operation*


Read more at: Puttur action was OCTOPUS commando force's first strike operation : South, News - India Today


Could OCTOPUS, AP&#8217;s anti-terrorist organisation, have stopped the attacks? : Postnoon


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## kbd-raaf

Unknowncommando said:


> COBRA



These guys look better equipped than the IA, no ballistic helmets or BPJs as far as I can see though.

But they are not special forces, am I wrong?


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## Unknowncommando

kbd-raaf said:


> These guys look better equipped than the IA, no ballistic helmets or BPJs as far as I can see though.
> 
> But they are not special forces, am I wrong?



yes they r better equipped. And they r sf bro. Not an military bt paramilitary sf. I am also wondering why they dnt use ballistic helmets though they hav them. And they use same BPJs which garuds,para and other units use. Bt in this pic some r wearing and some r nt.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Controls for the suit I'd assume. Those things have cooling, lighting and comms all built in.


at first look i thought it is remote control for the robot. Coz u can see the arrow keys at the bottom side of screen there.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> yes they r better equipped. And they r sf bro. Not an military bt paramilitary sf. I am also wondering why they dnt use ballistic helmets though they hav them. And they use same BPJs which garuds,para and other units use. Bt in this pic some r wearing and some r nt.


They are not a Special Force but a Special Unit which is only experienced in jungle warfare and doesnt have any airborne component.


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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They are not a Special Force but a Special Unit which is only experienced in jungle warfare and doesnt have any airborne component.



bt bro in tv9 doctey on COBRA they said that they are sf. Watch from 7:10 to 7:16. Bhai isiliye maine use bola it is paramilitary sf nt military. Everyone knows that they r nt airborne.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> bt bro in tv9 doctey on COBRA they said that they are sf. Watch from 7:10 to 7:16. Bhai isiliye maine use bola it is paramilitary sf nt military. Everyone knows that they r nt airborne.



Bhai,TV 9 are no one to decide what a SF is and what is not.To be honest most people dont know what the term "operator" means in India so you can hardly expect them to know what a SF would be.

Special Forces are the forces capable of fighting:-

-Direct Action
-Hostage rescue
-CT
-Unconventional
-Intel gathering
-Assymetric
-FID
-Personel recovery
-Counter Proliferation

Apart from these things they should be capable of adapting to 'any' environment and be airborne.

Most people in India dont know what a SF really is and what the term 'operator' means.Thatswhy i say we have only 2 SF in India.(which is alltogether different debate)

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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

There are reports of 4th battalion the Para Commandos SF being a part of the ongoing operation in Keran Sector of Jammu and Kashmir.

500 Infantrymen and unknow number of SF operators are fighting against 40 odd terrorists in the high altitude terrain which is spread across tens of kilometres.

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## Abingdonboy

;


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> There are reports of 4th battalion the Para Commandos SF being a part of the ongoing operation in Keran Sector of Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> 500 Infantrymen and unknow number of SF operators are fighting against 40 odd terrorists in the high altitude terrain which is spread across tens of kilometres.



Yeah you'd hope so. This has been going on for how many weeks now? The IA has had time to bring all their assets to the fight that they deem nessercary and surely SFs would be leading the fight. SFs have had time to plan and prep for this mission by now. I know this is not a simple op but the IA and IAF must have scores of UAVs overhead by now, there must be helos buzzing around for recon and transport etc etc


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## Abingdonboy

Bhai Zakir said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


*

Look pretty decent! One of the better equipped SRU in India for sure.*

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## Dandpatta

Could someone take the trouble of creating an entire list of SF / SRUs etc (those from military, paramilitary, police commandos etc).

I think it would be best if knowledgeable persons like Coldhearted Aviator or other thoroughly knowledgeables could put up a list organised in excel format :-

NAME (of Force) | Police, Mil, ParaMil, etc | Core Mission objectives | Approx Personnel 
- COBRA 
- OCTOPUS 
- MARCOS 
- GARUDS 
- BLACK CATS 
- etc
- etc
- etc


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## Bang Galore

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> There are reports of 4th battalion the Para Commandos SF being a part of the ongoing operation in Keran Sector of Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> 500 Infantrymen and unknow number of SF operators are fighting against *40 odd terrorists* in the high altitude terrain which is spread across tens of kilometres.




That figure is probably understated. I was watching a Tv program last night where Praveen Swami was discussing this issue. According him, some army sources have put the figure at roughly company strength i.e. around 100. We are clearly not getting the full picture.There is certainly more here than meets the eye.


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## Dillinger

Bang Galore said:


> That figure is probably understated. I was watching a Tv program last night where Praveen Swami was discussing this issue. According him, some army sources have put the figure at roughly company strength i.e. around 100. We are clearly not getting the full picture.There is certainly more here than meets the eye.



The numbers may vary, the only way to have any clarity on that aspect will be to wait for the army to complete the op and sanitize the AO so that they can issue conclusive and final statements.

But, the time being taken is dictated by the terrain and scale of the op primarily-

Okay here we go again. 








The above picture represents the AO- 

Legend- 

1) Black mark- the nullah, probable route of ingress for the infiltrators.

2) Crimson mark- the "abandoned village" situated in a clearing which is surrounded on all for sides by foliage starting roughly 200 meters from the center of the clearing. 

The LOC is clearly visible.

The scope of the current operation entails two broad objectives. First, to contain the infiltrators in the clearing and the abandoned buildings. Secondly, to flood the surrounding foliage with boots to dominate the area in order to ensure that smaller groups cannot execute a break out. The reason that the infiltrators have been corned in that area is because the IA was able to act in a timely manner and with adequate speed. The infiltrators did no ingress to hunker down in an abandoned village. They were using it as a way point and a place for rest due to the virtue of it providing built up shelter sans any habitation on our side of the LOC, normally the infiltrators would have proceeded from this area deeper into the hinterland to either lie dormant or to attack designated targets. Before they could commence on said further ingress they were cut off by the IA. The time and scale of the operation is dictated by the nature of the terrain prevalent in the AO. With plenty of crevices and natural cover (which can be exploited to provide defilade) it behooves us to take our time and cordon off the area from the three sides (broadly speaking) from which we can operate. A further challenge is imposed by the fact that AO lies only 150 or so meters across the LOC and thus PA regulars on the other side may get tempted to exploit the dynamic nature of such exchanges of fire to inflict casualties upon our jawaan in a manner which shall be extremely difficult for us to trace back to them.

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## Bang Galore

Dillinger said:


> The scope of the current operation entails two broad objectives. First, to contain the infiltrators in the clearing and the abandoned buildings. Secondly, to flood the surrounding foliage with boots to dominate the area in order to ensure that smaller groups cannot execute a break out. The reason that the infiltrators have been corned in that area is because the IA was able to act in a timely manner and with adequate speed. The infiltrators did no ingress to hunker down in an abandoned village. They were using it as a way point and a place for rest due to the virtue of it providing built up shelter sans any habitation on our side of the LOC, normally the infiltrators would have proceeded from this area deeper into the hinterland to either lie dormant or to attack designated targets. Before they could commence on said further ingress they were cut off by the IA. The time and scale of the operation is dictated by the nature of the terrain prevalent in the AO. With plenty of crevices and natural cover (which can be exploited to provide defilade) it behooves us to take our time and cordon off the area from the three sides (broadly speaking) from which we can operate. A further challenge is imposed by the fact that AO lies only 150 or so meters across the LOC and thus PA regulars on the other side may get tempted to exploit the dynamic nature of such exchanges of fire to inflict casualties upon our jawaan in a manner which shall be extremely difficult for us to trace back to them.



Do you believe that this is merely an attempt at infiltration or is an outright incursion ? I'm not too convinced on the pure infiltration angle. They are engaging & from what seems to be happening, they are being replenished, probably both in men & material from across the LoC. If it was just an infiltration attempt, do you not think it would have quietened down by now? This is speculation but I'm not too sure about what exactly is happening and I am not entirely convinced by the official line.


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## Dillinger

Bang Galore said:


> Do you believe that this is merely an attempt at infiltration or is an outright incursion ? I'm not too convinced on the pure infiltration angle. They are engaging & from what seems to be happening, they are being replenished, probably both in men & material from across the LoC. If it was just an infiltration attempt, do you not think it would have quietened down by now? This is speculation but I'm not too sure about what exactly is happening and I am not entirely convinced by the official line.



Rest assured that it is an infiltration. Shala Bhata lies a meager 200 meters into our side and is situated 4 km away from a major IA camp. It is not an area that presents any advantage. The issue arises due to two factors. A large group may enter en mass but after having covered some ground the group splits up, we have been rather particular about catching them before they could do so. Nonetheless the area is densely forested and while the foliage might obscure the details of the terrain it truly is dominated by ridges and nullahs. So the IA is proceeding at a very deliberate pace, which makes sense. Our first concern is containment, after which we can be cautious so as to limit casualties. Where will the infiltrators go? They can only either egress or stay put and slowly be neutralized. The second issue is that the Fidayeens are a death cult, they are very much inclined to stay put if for no other reason then to "embrace shahadat". The reason for the particularly large number of infiltrators is actually quite simple, having intel on the troop rotation in the area the infiltrators would have known that the forces deployed there were rotating out and because large scale infiltration attempts occur before the onset of winter to push in as many fidayeen as possible. 

Basically the plan was to exploit the relaxation in patrols to push in a large number of fidayeen in one go, which makes sense since the window of opportunity is not particularly large so the enemy would want to exploit it to its maximum potential.

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## Dillinger

@Bang Galore Also, if someone or the other gets too uppity, there is a helipad just 4 Km away from the "ghost village". We can always send in Ninjas, that is if they are not leading the op even as I type.

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## Abingdonboy

Dillinger said:


> Rest assured that it is an infiltration. Shala Bhata lies a meager 200 meters into our side and is situated 4 km away from a major IA camp. It is not an area that presents any advantage. The issue arises due to two factors. A large group may enter en mass but after having covered some ground the group splits up, we have been rather particular about catching them before they could do so. Nonetheless the area is densely forested and while the foliage might obscure the details of the terrain it truly is dominated by ridges and nullahs. So the IA is proceeding at a very deliberate pace, which makes sense. Our first concern is containment, after which we can be cautious so as to limit casualties. Where will the infiltrators go? They can only either egress or stay put and slowly be neutralized. The second issue is that the Fidayeens are a death cult, they are very much inclined to stay put if for no other reason then to "embrace shahadat". The reason for the particularly large number of infiltrators is actually quite simple, having intel on the troop rotation in the area the infiltrators would have known that the forces deployed there were rotating out and because large scale infiltration attempts occur before the onset of winter to push in as many fidayeen as possible.
> 
> Basically the plan was to exploit the relaxation in patrols to push in a large number of fidayeen in one go, which makes sense since the window of opportunity is not particularly large so the enemy would want to exploit it to its maximum potential.


After 2014 the Pakistanis were always going to have an issue with the miltants they trained and harboured being left effectively unemployed and like they say 'the Devil finds work for idle hands'. It seems Kayani/Pakistan has decided to outsource the problem to India and sent these guys to be dealt with by the IA who has become extremely proficient in detecting and subsequently neutralising these scumbags. The simple fact of the matter is this is a suicide operation but there seems to be very little actual objective. It's all too easy to contain and then methodically carry out "mop-up" operations in this case. And with SFs leading the charge it is only a matter of time.......


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Dandpatta said:


> Could someone take the trouble of creating an entire list of SF / SRUs etc (those from military, paramilitary, police commandos etc).
> 
> I think it would be best if knowledgeable persons like Coldhearted Aviator or other thoroughly knowledgeables could put up a list organised in excel format :-
> 
> NAME (of Force) | Police, Mil, ParaMil, etc | Core Mission objectives | Approx Personnel
> - COBRA
> - OCTOPUS
> - MARCOS
> - GARUDS
> - BLACK CATS
> - etc
> - etc
> - etc



Bro,this has been done earlier by @Abingdonboy if i am not wrong and in the very same thread.He can add Octopus and Cobra to the list.


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## special

look like our politicians fucked up the _Special forces command_ proposal!! 

India Evades Action on Special Forces Command | Defense News | defensenews.com


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> look like our politicians fucked up the _Special forces command_ proposal!!
> 
> India Evades Action on Special Forces Command | Defense News | defensenews.com


Oh well, what's a year in these cases?


----------



## Abingdonboy

Dandpatta said:


> Could someone take the trouble of creating an entire list of SF / SRUs etc (those from military, paramilitary, police commandos etc).
> 
> I think it would be best if knowledgeable persons like Coldhearted Aviator or other thoroughly knowledgeables could put up a list organised in excel format :-
> 
> NAME (of Force) | Police, Mil, ParaMil, etc | Core Mission objectives | Approx Personnel
> - COBRA
> - OCTOPUS
> - MARCOS
> - GARUDS
> - BLACK CATS
> - etc
> - etc
> - etc


I had made this post over a year ago:



Abingdonboy said:


> I'll have a crack at it.
> 
> 
> Firstly there are ONLY *THREE* actual/true Special Forces (SF/SOF) in India-
> IAF-*Garud*
> Garud Commando Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> IA-*PARA (SF)*
> Para Commandos (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> IN-*MARCOs*
> MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> +note- the PARA (SF) are part of the PARA regiment that also has regular PARA (airborne) btns as part of it who are well trained but not SF just like regular airborne forces found in other armies like 82nd Airborne of US.
> 
> By and large Indian SOFs very much like to keep to themselves and let their actions speak for themselves, this is sort of their unofficial mantra. As such, unlike with other SOFs, you won't find too much info on them.
> 
> 
> +There is also the *RR (Rashtriya Rifles)*- a dedicated Counter Insurgency force of the IA who operate mostly in J&K. They are drwan from all arms of the IA although it is mandated 50% of the force must be from the infantry and all members are deputated to the force for a period of time before returning to their parent units.
> 
> Rashtriya Rifles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there are a other specilzed forces-
> -*Ghataks* (In western lexicon they would be reffered to as "Special Operations Capable") are Special Operations Capable infantry platoons attactched toevery Infantry battalion in the Indian Army .
> 
> Ghatak Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*SFF/Special Group*-Under remit of RAW and act in similar ways to the SAD of CIA. Whilst SFF were made up of mainly Tibetan refugees, Special Group (a counter terror unit within the SFF whose existence is officially denied by GoI) is manned by mostly Indian SOF personal on deputation. Very little is actually known about these unit but whenever you here of RAW lifting some bad guy in the region say Nepal,BD or SL it is more likely than not this is SFF/SG.
> 
> Special Frontier Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> -*NSG* (a special intervention force) split in two groups (Special Action Group, SAG and Special Ranger Group,SRG), SAG is made up of IA guys on 3 year deputation tours and are the actual "shooters" who carry out any sort of domestic counter terror action and on the whole remains elusive and shadowy. SRG are the more camera-friendly guys whose sole responsibility is VVIP protection and members of SRG are CaPFs on deputation. It should be noted that despite NSG being initially set up as a dedicated CT force because of the babu nature in India the number of personal in SRG now vastly outnumber the number of "shooters" in SAG.The SAG atleast could be understood to be similar to the FBI's HRT in remit and training.
> 
> 
> National Security Guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Then there are the numourous CaPFs who also have specilized units:
> 
> -*CRPF COBRAs:* A dedicated anti-Naxal force which has grown in both size and capabilty and are actually delivering tangible results in the field. Armed with ever increasing tactics (notably recently the induction of dedicated sniper-spotter teams for intel gathering and other such sniper related work) and weaponary including recently the X-95.
> 
> Commando Battalion for Resolute Action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> -*ITBP Commandos:* A specilised unit within ITBP which is well trained and,relatively, well armed. The force has been deployed (for whatever reason) to protect the Indian diplomatic mission in Afghanistan after targetted bobmbings.
> 
> Indo-Tibetan Border Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*BSF:* The BSF has mulitple "commando" units including the Crocidile commandos (seriously this is thir name!) whose responsiblty is patrolling creeks and water bodies close to Pakistan.
> 
> Border Security Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> -*RPF: The Railway Protection force* too has their own dedicated commando unit. I'm not too clued up on them tbh so can't really give a fair analysis of their training/equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These days most states have Special Response/Emergency response units especially in response to 26/11. Surprisingly it does seem like most of these are well trained and well equipped.
> 
> 
> There needs to be a further understanding of what the true definition of Special Forces and Commandos are to stop this unneeded and pointless proliferation of the "commando" identity it cheapens it for all those units that are truly deserving of the title and have worked bloody hard to earn it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To note, the *SPG* is *NOT * a special/commando force as TOO many people claim. They are an incredibly well trained and equipeed executive protection agency for PM/ex PMs, Pres and their families- THAT IS ALL.
> 
> 
> Special Protection Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




It makes no sense to add every single SRU of every single police dept though.As this is pretty much the norm these days and actuallt expected not anything worth highlighting. JMHO.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando

COBRA

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## kurup

Can somebody tell me why are we discussing the news about COBRAS in Indian Special Forces thread ??

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Indian forces conduct operations in Srinagar


Srinagar, October 11 (KMS): In occupied Kashmir, the Indian armed forces conducted operation in Ahmadnagar, Soura and Dal Lake areas of Srinagar a week after a Mujahid reportedly managed to slip out during a night long encounter in the Ahmadnagar area.Heavy contingents of Special Operation Group (SOG) of Indian Police and Central Reserve Police Force cordoned off Ahmad Nagar and interrogated the locals.
The armed forces&#8217; personnel, locals said, also carried out search operations inside Dal Lake.

On October 3, a team of SOG and CRPF during a joint operation in Ahmadnagar came under attack by Mujahideen, in which four policemen, including a Special Police Official and an Assistant Sub-Inspector (ASI), were injured.

Meanwhile, the Director General of Police (DGP), Ashok Prasad, in a statement said there were 80 militants active adding that there was no militant in Srinagar. He also acknowledged that no militant sneaked into the territory from outside.


The police chief statement has refuted the Indian government&#8217;s propaganda against Pakistan. The analysts say that India makes hue and cry about so-called infiltration to justify the presence of hundreds of thousands of its troops in the occupied territory.


Indian forces conduct operations in Srinagar | Kashmir Media Service


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Unknowncommando said:


> yes they r better equipped. And they r sf bro. Not an military bt paramilitary sf. I am also wondering why they dnt use ballistic helmets though they hav them. And they use same BPJs which garuds,para and other units use. Bt in this pic some r wearing and some r nt.



none of them are wearing and BPJs and the vests worn by indian sfs are the same worn by the indian army except for the camo.

garud:






bulky... even our army is replacing these with new jackets... while SFs are already using them.


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## Abingdonboy

labelled "IAF RESCUE TEAM" but I'm assuming Garuds:







Ready to undertake SAR missions

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> labelled "IAF RESCUE TEAM" but I'm assuming Garuds:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ready to undertake SAR missions



They are indeed Garuds coz the T shirts they are wearing are these...








kbd-raaf said:


> These guys look better equipped than the IA, no ballistic helmets or BPJs as far as I can see though.
> 
> But they are not special forces, am I wrong?



Better equipped in what sense than the IA,mate?

The IA is very well equipped to the challenge it faces...and i mean it.


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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Better equipped in what sense than the IA,mate?
> 
> The IA is very well equipped to the challenge it faces...and i mean it.


u are ryt bro i have seen some clips of IA of operations in keran sector they were well equiped. on operation they use the best things they have.[/QUOTE]

The IA is not actually given enough coverage to say either way. Whenever you see the odd visuals of actual ops I'm actually impressed by what they've got. The IA is constantly evolving and modernising but this is little understood or covered so we simply assume that what they looked like from a few visuals a few years ago is what they look like today.


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## Unknowncommando

garuds





NSG





MARCOS AND NSG

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## Unknowncommando




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> u are ryt bro i have seen some clips of IA of operations in keran sector they were well equiped. on operation they use the best things they have.





> The IA is not actually given enough coverage to say either way. Whenever you see the odd visuals of actual ops I'm actually impressed by what they've got. The IA is constantly evolving and modernising but this is little understood or covered so we simply assume that what they looked like from a few visuals a few years ago is what they look like today.



We have to also realise that each Army equips itself to the challenge it faces and the stratergy it makes.Like for example the western Army infantrymen have a stratergy of either being deployed by helicopters or MRAPs while our stratergy is completely different.We have a strategy of having boots on the ground and our infantryman is still the old school types who does most of his duty walking on his legs.

They have each weapon/system to overpower any challenge they face.From AR to LORES to UAVs they are dominating their enemy.They are so well equipped that even Pakistan Army cant match the IA in survellience equipments deployed in the LOC.

A battalion commander like for example has LORES,high quality radio freq jamming and listening equipments,HHTI,Ghataks and even AA guns to take care of any threat.So it is a pretty casual statement to say that COBRA are better equipped just coz they have TAVOR...TAVOR and Digicam cant win you any war in the end.


Moreover the future like we all know is gonna make the IA infantryman much much more superior to any threat that he is ever gonna face in South Asia.(except the eastern border)



Unknowncommando said:


> MARCOS AND NSG



People have many idols like Hritik,Sachin,Johnny Depp etc but this man is my idol.I will be very fortunate if i get to shake my hands with him and chat with him for 15 mins.

For me he is a true SF commander.I would love to see him as the 1st Indian SOCOM Commander.

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> We have to also realise that each Army equips itself to the challenge it faces and the stratergy it makes.Like for example the western Army infantrymen have a stratergy of either being deployed by helicopters or MRAPs while our stratergy is completely different.We have a strategy of having boots on the ground and our infantryman is still the old school types who does most of his duty walking on his legs.
> 
> They have each weapon/system to overpower any challenge they face.From AR to LORES to UAVs they are dominating their enemy.They are so well equipped that even Pakistan Army cant match the IA in survellience equipments deployed in the LOC.
> 
> A battalion commander like for example has LORES,high quality radio freq jamming and listening equipments,HHTI,Ghataks and even AA guns to take care of any threat.So it is a pretty casual statement to say that COBRA are better equipped just coz they have TAVOR...TAVOR and Digicam cant win you any war in the end.
> 
> 
> Moreover the future like we all know is gonna make the IA infantryman much much more superior to any threat that he is ever gonna face in South Asia.(except the eastern border)
> 
> 
> 
> People have many idols like Hritik,Sachin,Johnny Depp etc but this man is my idol.I will be very fortunate if i get to shake my hands with him and chat with him for 15 mins.
> 
> For me he is a true SF commander.I would love to see him as the 1st Indian SOCOM Commander.



may be Indian army is better equipped than pakistan army but they are not equipped to international level. they are not even equipped for facing the kashmir insurgency. our army(regular infantry) don't even have NVGs for night operations. our army don't have off road vehicles for QR in the case of cross border attack. they don't even have a good optical sights for their rifles(even PA is providing this to their solders).


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> may be Indian army is better equipped than pakistan army but they are not equipped to international level. they are not even equipped for facing the kashmir insurgency. our army(regular infantry) don't even have NVGs for night operations. our army don't have off road vehicles for QR in the case of cross border attack. they don't even have a good optical sights for their rifles(even PA is providing this to their solders).



IA is equipped the best it can be and "international equipping" requires international budget also which we dont have.Who said IA doesnt have NVG?Do you know what an HHTI is?Or what does a LORES do?


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> People have many idols like Hritik,Sachin,Johnny Depp etc but this man is my idol.I will be very fortunate if i get to shake my hands with him and chat with him for 15 mins.
> 
> For me he is a true SF commander.I would love to see him as the 1st Indian SOCOM Commander.



You must be talking about the man in the middle . Who is he ??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> You must be talking about the man in the middle . Who is he ??



Col Sunil Sheoran....The commander of NSG during 26/11.

Tribute to men who fight for the nation - Part 9-Heroes-Weekend Shows -TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

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## Water Car Engineer

special said:


> may be Indian army is better equipped than pakistan army but they are not equipped to international level. they are not even equipped for facing the kashmir insurgency. our army(regular infantry) don't even have NVGs for night operations. our army don't have off road vehicles for QR in the case of cross border attack. they don't even have a good optical sights for their rifles(even PA is providing this to their solders).









IA's soldier's equipment is straight up in the cold war.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> IA's soldier's equipment is straight up in the cold war.



How about this..

Mapping The LoC: A special series


???? ?? ???????? : ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??? Video: NDTV.com


The thing is most of us have no idea about the important equipments necessary for night fighting and assume that monocular or binocular NVGs look cool and set it as a parameter for observing the night fighting capabilities.

When i asked the same question to a Ghatak guy he said he considered LORES,HHTI more reliable than a NVG.And it makes sense also coz a thermal imager only shows you what you want to see.IA has plenty of HHTI and high quality survellience equipments it needs.

If you are expecting the Indian soldier to be wearing Oakleys and sipping mineral water straight out of his camebak then well all i can say is that we must not forget what our budget is at the end of the day.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG 29 Raising Day


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Col Sunil Sheoran....The commander of NSG during 26/11.
> 
> Tribute to men who fight for the nation - Part 9-Heroes-Weekend Shows -TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos



Col Saurabh Singh Shekhawat is just such a bada$$:

Tribute to men who fight for the nation - Part 2-Heroes-Weekend Shows -TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Col Saurabh Singh Shekhawat is just such a bada$$:
> 
> Tribute to men who fight for the nation - Part 2-Heroes-Weekend Shows -TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos



Did you see Col Sheoran bullet injury scar on his cheek...my friend who was in Ghatak has a similar injury while fighting a terrrorist 1 on 1 like Col Sheoran...it looks really badass.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Did you see Col Sheoran bullet injury scar on his cheek...my friend who was in Ghatak has a similar injury while fighting a terrrorist 1 on 1 like Col Sheoran...it looks really badass.



Yeah, on a SF like him it just looks pretty cool, if I can say that


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> NSG 29 Raising Day



When I see the latest pics of NSG i always think back to those whiny fools who jumped the gun and produced cr@p like this:









Egg on face much


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> When I see the latest pics of NSG i always think back to those whiny fools who jumped the gun and produced cr@p like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egg on face much



Still more to come....BTW any updates on F-INSAS?

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Still more to come....BTW any updates on F-INSAS?



The best is still yet to come IMHO ie personal tablets, individual health monitoring, networked operator-worn cameras etc 



wrt F-INSAS, same old- an undisclosed IA infantry btn will be trailing much of the F-INSAS personal equipment. Full roll-out should begin within 18 months of the trail's completion. Contrary to certain reports the program looks set to meet the 2025 deadline for full implementation. The latest I heard the IA was still thinking hard on their future camouflage........

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The best is still yet to come IMHO ie personal tablets, individual health monitoring, networked operator-worn cameras etc
> 
> 
> 
> wrt F-INSAS, same old- an undisclosed IA infantry btn will be trailing much of the F-INSAS personal equipment. Full roll-out should begin within 18 months of the trail's completion. Contrary to certain reports the program looks set to meet the 2025 deadline for full implementation. The latest I heard the IA was still thinking hard on their future camouflage........



I want them to think hard for their camo.Moreover the SF are not under this programme so no worries.Whats going on with the MARCOS upgradation programme?..


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I want them to think hard for their camo.Moreover the SF are not under this programme so no worries.Whats going on with the MARCOS upgradation programme?..



They will be getting their ICS/FCS sometime in late 2014 AFAIK. They've also been looking at some next-gen Sniper rifles

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG in 2008







NSG in 2013












Waiting for 2015..



Abingdonboy said:


> They will be getting their ICS/FCS sometime in late 2014 AFAIK. They've also been looking at some next-gen Sniper rifles



What about the Camo?

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## Gessler

NSG has inducted the Renault Sherpa light APC -


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Marcos in 2009





Marcos in 2013






Expecting heavy changes post 2015..


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> NSG in 2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG in 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for 2015..




2013:

























COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What about the Camo?



MARCOs have got their new camo a while back:







Don't know though if they've considered going for more types ie one for jungles and or deserts.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA SF in 2009







PARA SF in 2013







To continue upgradation post 2015..



Abingdonboy said:


> 2013:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARCOs have got their new camo a while back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know though if they've considered going for more types ie one for jungles and or deserts.



I was expecting them to have a different camo..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Not bad for a period of 5 years knowing that much more is yet to come..by 2017 our SF would be on par with western SF in terms of equipments.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not bad for a period of 5 years knowing that much more is yet to come..by 2017 our SF would be on par with western SF in terms of equipments.



I think this is more than likely.


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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> How about this..
> 
> Mapping The LoC: A special series




How about what? Most of the regular IA infantry guys Pakistan will face will be armed like this.



















Which is basically early cold war equipment. They're waiting on F-INSAS.


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Marcos in 2013



That is SPB not Marcos .

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> That is SPB not Marcos .


 @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR he's right bro.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> That is SPB not Marcos .





Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR he's right bro.



I know that mate but tell me which other pic could have i taken of anyone who comes as close to uniform,weapon,equipments to Marcos as the SPB do?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> How about what? Most of the regular IA infantry guys Pakistan will face will be armed like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is basically early cold war equipment. They're waiting on F-INSAS.



These are pics of an excercise not an actual war..The video i posted is of actual cold war going in kashmir.Why dont you take it for a reference?

Besides do you realise our budget is lower than UK,France,Suadi Arabia and Japan who have much smaller Army than ours.

Like they say in hindi...Itne paise mein itna hi milta he.

I really hope you saw the videos i posted.You can see pretty hi tech survellience equipments,well equipped(which means equipping to the challenge they face),Snipers in action..pretty much every thing they need to guard the LOC.

Moreover,The Army commader is always one call away from asking for UAVs and SF based with a heli squadron in Srinagar.

The process is going on and soon all the troops and Ghataks will we well equipped...yeah i do agree that more needs to be done but for that we have F-INSAS.

The most recent pic of IA regulars...





Equipped with BPJ,Helmet,AK series,headphone with radio set,GPS,HHTI(Thermal Imager),1 NVG for a section,MREs..not that poorly equipped i guess.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I know that mate but tell me which other pic could have i taken of anyone who comes as close to uniform,weapon,equipments to Marcos as the SPB do?
















Also bro check this out:






got it! 

So it's this kind afterall:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Also bro check this out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> got it!
> 
> So it's this kind afterall:



Naah...those black shoes dont go well with the camo..and the video game pic is not that detailed. 

Wow you actually got the NSG pic


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I know that mate but tell me which other pic could have i taken of anyone who comes as close to uniform,weapon,equipments to Marcos as the SPB do?



U r right in that sense .































No clear picture of MARCOS with marpat camo .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> U r right in that sense .



Besides you know what...that line is @Abingdonboy signature line whenever that pic gets posted.

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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Besides you know what...that line is @Abingdonboy signature line whenever that pic gets posted.



Haha ...... yeah, you are right ...... 

Me and @Abingdonboy has atleast a dozen posts with exact same line .....

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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> These are pics of an excercise not an actual war..The video i posted is of actual cold war going in kashmir.Why dont you take it for a reference?
> 
> Besides do you realise our budget is lower than UK,France,Suadi Arabia and Japan who have much smaller Army than ours.
> 
> Like they say in hindi...Itne paise mein itna hi milta he.
> 
> I really hope you saw the videos i posted.You can see pretty hi tech survellience equipments,well equipped(which means equipping to the challenge they face),Snipers in action..pretty much every thing they need to guard the LOC.
> 
> Moreover,The Army commader is always one call away from asking for UAVs and SF based with a heli squadron in Srinagar.
> 
> The process is going on and soon all the troops and Ghataks will we well equipped...yeah i do agree that more needs to be done but for that we have F-INSAS.
> 
> The most recent pic of IA regulars...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equipped with BPJ,Helmet,AK series,headphone with radio set,GPS,HHTI(Thermal Imager),1 NVG for a section,MREs..not that poorly equipped i guess.



And what if it's an exercise? That's not how T-90s, BMPs, and regular IA soldiers will be looking like when they're meeting Pakistan in the Thar desert, if there is a full scale war? How is some images of CT operations representative of a full scale war to you and not an exercise with the Indian army involving T-90s, BMPs, armored recovery vehicles, Chetak/Cheetah scouts, and regular IA soldiers securing a simulated enemy post? It's very much valid and definitely referable. The equipment that I've shown is much more consistent. You will not see regular IA soldiers all of a sudden switch to patka helmets, AKs, etc. The ones wearing those are in CT ops.

The *vast majority/bulk* are going to have those tin can helmets, INSAS rifles, some antique ammo holders, etc. until F-INSAS comes through.



> Besides do you realise our budget is lower than UK,France,Suadi Arabia and Japan who have much smaller Army than ours.




If it was so small and less adequate, you wouldn't be seeing this whole F-INSAS program trying to re-equip ALL of it's infantry eventually from the top-down. Now, IA might be in a situation if this program keeps getting delayed, because those tin can helmets, INSAS rifles, antique ammo holders, etc. are going to be it's MIG-21 waiting to be replaced by LCA, MMRCA.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> And what if it's an exercise? That's not how T-90, BMPs, and regular IA soldiers will be looking like when they're meeting Pakistan in the Thar desert, if there is a full scale war? How is some images of CT operations representative of a full scale war to you and not an exercise with the Indian army involving T-90s, BMPs, armored recovery vehicle, Chetak/Cheetah scouts, and regular IA soldiers securing an enemy post? It's very much valid. The equipment that I've shown is much more consistent. You will not see regular IA soldiers all of a sudden switch to patka helmets, AKs, etc. The ones wearing those are in CT ops.
> 
> The *vast majority* are going to have those tin can helmets, INSAS rifles, some antique ammo holders, etc. until F-INSAS comes through.




The priority is CI ops right now so all the new equipments go there.Moreover the pics you posted are of a desert terraain and i dont think anyone would like to carry a heavy back pack there.

The entire infantry battalion is not well equipped and only Ghataks and QRTs are well equipped and slowly but steadily they will be equipped.Indian Army is well equipped to take care of any challenge it faces currently and is awaiting upgradation under F-INSAS programme.

Equipping 1.2 million Army is not easy specially on a 40 billion budget..we have to understand this.So the prioroty is CI ops and SF right now.

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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The priority is CI ops right now so all the new equipments go there.Moreover the pics you posted are of a desert terraain and i dont think anyone would like to carry a heavy back pack there.



It's not even about carrying too much. Give these guys some proper modern helmets, vests at the very least. Not these god knows how old cold war helmets, etc.

Hell, FINSAS is WAY over what I would think they would do.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> It's not even about carrying too much. Give these guys some proper modern helmets, vests at the very least. Not these god knows how cold war helmets, etc.
> 
> Hell, FINSAS is WAY over what I would think they would do.



I dont think anyone would like to wear a BPJ for an excercise in a desert where real bullets are not gonnna fly.

Giving them proper equipments is not in my or your hands and nor are we ****** rich like the Americans or the Aussies...what we can do is to give the guys decent equipments which gives them an edge over their adversary and equip limited number of troops in a decent way slowly and steadily which we are currently doing.


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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont think anyone would like to wear a BPJ for an excercise in a desert where real bullets are not gonnna fly.
> 
> Giving them proper equipments is not in my or your hands and nor are we ****** rich like the Americans or the Aussies...what we can do is to give the guys decent equipments which gives them an edge over their adversary and equip limited number of troops in a decent way slowly and steadily which we are currently doing.




Oh, bullets will fly, shrapnel will fly, etc, etc, etc. Pakistani infantry will be cocked up in their posts. Pakistani infantry will be behind their Al-Khalids, inside their Infantry fighting vehicles, etc. 

If bullets aren't flying, all infantry will be running with a tee shirt and their rifle.



> I dont think anyone would like to wear a BPJ for an excercise in a desert where real bullets are not gonnna fly.



Woops, read you wrong. No, they are wearing what they are given, period




> Giving them proper equipments is not in my or your hands and nor* are we ****** rich like the Americans or the Aussies...*




This F-INSAS program is literally trying to take IA soldiers from top 20, to top 5-10 equipped soldiers around the world. Apparently they do have money. A military with no money wouldnt even THINK of something like F-INSAS in that time frame.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> Oh, bullets will fly, shrapnel will fly, etc, etc, etc. Pakistani infantry will be cocked up in their posts. Pakistani infantry will be behind their Al-Khalids, inside their Infantry fighting vehicles, etc.
> 
> If bullets aren't flying, all infantry will be running with a tee shirt and their rifle.




Maybe they should hire someone like you who is fit enough to carry 30kgs for 40-50 kms in 50 degree celcius heat.



> This F-INSAS program is literally trying to take IA soldiers from top 20, to top 5-10 equipped soldiers around the world. Apparently they do have money.



Hope you do understand that the money is being spent on F-INSAS already and hence there is only little upgrades which can be done.Hope you read about the recent tenders for Carbines,ARs and LMGs which are all a part of F-INSAS.

Unfortunately, we dont have a fast food restaurant here and things are gonna take time.So either we can wait or complain in the mean time.

And yeah,Indian soldier right now is not in top 20 equipped soldier nor will he be in top 5 after F-INSAS.

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## Abingdonboy

@Water Car Engineer, what @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR says is right. The best kit is going to RR and SFs as these are priority areas for the IA. 


It is clear though that by Western/Global standards the Indian Army infantrymen are pretty poorly equipped ON THE WHOLE. 


Let's just wait until F-INSAS comes into service, that should address this deficit for all intensive purposes.

Also understand that by 2020-22 India will be spending $100-130 BN USD A YEAR on defence so the picture is only going to get better and better as time passes.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG





NSG

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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Maybe they should hire someone like you who is fit enough to carry 30kgs for 40-50 kms in 50 degree celcius heat.



I rather them invest in proper gear for them, then cold war era garbage.

If US, Saudi, Iraqi, etc, etc can do it, please tell me why Indian soldier cant? Giving them modern ballistic helmets which is probably lighter than those tin cans, this isnt asking much. Matter a fact, they could have done this well BEFORE F-INSAS. Why do you need to wait for everything in F-INSAS to give these soldiers at least modern helmets? These guys use IA soldiers like cannon fodder.



> And yeah,Indian soldier right now is not in top 20 equipped soldier not will he be in top 5 after F-INSAS.



Right now, they're not even in the top 10.


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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> I rather them invest in proper gear for them, then cold war era garbage.
> 
> If US, Saudi, Iraqi, etc, etc can do it, please tell me why Indian soldier cant? Giving them modern ballistic helmets which is probably lighter than those tin cans, this isnt asking much. Matter a fact, they could have done this well BEFORE F-INSAS. Why do you need to wait for everything in F-INSAS to give these soldiers at least modern helmets? These guys use IA soldiers like cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> Right now, they're not even in the top 10.



The US has a budget of 700 billion dollar...Iraq and Afghanistan have a better equipped SF coz of US.Do you think Iraqi or Afghan can match Indian SF in terms of skill,experience and planning?

Money talks man..who wont want the soldiers to be better equipped but we have to wait till 2022.The western Armies are smal in number but better equipped coz they spend more money on every soldier they have.Unfortunately we cant!

All we can do is slowly and steadily equip our 1.2 million Army and this is the reason why even China cut down its Army.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG



Would love more pics of this and if we could get a vid I would droll !!


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## Water Car Engineer

Money talks and India has money. The fact F insas is even thought of means they have, will have the money. India doesn't need to wait till 2022 to equip IA soldiers with ballistic helmets, etc. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc examples are given to the whole stress in hot climates. Their soldiers are wearing proper gear in hot weather. Indians can too.


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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Money talks and India has money. The fact F insas is even thought of means they have, will have the money. India doesn't need to wait till 2022 to equip IA soldiers with ballistic helmets, etc. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc examples are given to the whole stress in hot climates. Their soldiers are wearing proper gear in hot weather. Indians can too.



And this is what F-INSAS is all about!!!


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## Unknowncommando



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> Money talks and India has money. The fact F insas is even thought of means they have, will have the money. India doesn't need to wait till 2022 to equip IA soldiers with ballistic helmets, etc. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc examples are given to the whole stress in hot climates. Their soldiers are wearing proper gear in hot weather. Indians can too.




Man,Iraqi SF doesnt do road marches of 30 plus kilometeres.You are comparing Indian Infatryman to a SF operator in Iraq whose primary skill is CQB.

Who would wanna wear his BPJ,Backpack,plus kgs of other equpment for a mock up???

Moreoever F-Insas will take a decade...we dont have money to equip all soldiers in 3 years like you are suggesting.


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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Man,Iraqi SF doesnt do road marches of 30 plus kilometeres.You are comparing Indian Infatryman to a SF operator in Iraq whose primary skill is CQB.
> 
> Who would wanna wear his BPJ,Backpack,plus kgs of other equpment for a mock up???
> 
> Moreoever F-Insas will take a decade...we dont have money to equip all soldiers in 3 years like you are suggesting.




No, I dont mean equip all of them at one go. Start right NOW. This should have happened 5-10 years ago.











Give them something that doesnt belong in the Vietnam, Korean war.



> Man,Iraqi SF doesnt do road marches of 30 plus kilometeres.You are comparing Indian Infatryman to a SF operator in Iraq whose primary skill is CQB.



This isn't something Indian soldiers cant do. Israelis do it, NATO soldiers doing it everyday. Give these guys proper vests and helmets. These tins can helmets are probably heavier without the added protection. 

























> Man,Iraqi SF doesnt do road marches of 30 plus kilometeres.You are comparing Indian Infatryman to a SF operator in Iraq whose primary skill is CQB.



Im not even talking about Iraqi SF.















Iraqi soldiers are patrolling just like NATO soldiers, etc. with their gear.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, I dont mean equip all of them at one go. Start right NOW. This should have happened 5-10 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give them something that doesnt belong in the Vietnam, Korean war.
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't something Indian soldiers cant do. Israelis do it, NATO soldiers doing it everyday. Give these guys proper vests and helmets. These tins can helmets are probably heavier without the added protection.



And what do you think F-INSAS is for?


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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And what do you think F-INSAS is for?



Why couldn't they start giving them these things NOW, or 5 years ago. It's about to be 2014 and there are Indian soldiers with these. Like they're in the Korean war!






God only knows how long this F-INSAS thing is going to even take. Give these soldiers proper helmets, vest. You dont need to wait on everything in the F-INSAS program.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> Why couldn't they start giving them these things NOW, or 5 years ago. It's about to be 2014 and there are Indian soldiers with these. Like they're in the Korean war!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God only knows how long this F-INSAS thing is going to even take. Give these soldiers proper helmets, vest. You dont need to wait on everything in the F-INSAS program.



The answer to your why has excatly the same answer as to why hasnt the Rafael being inducted till now..why isnt the Mig 21 being replaced when our young pilots are dying?

And stop polluting the thread with these pics.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> Iraqi soldiers are patrolling just like NATO soldiers, etc. with their gear.



LOL...seriously?

Except the helmet i dont think they are better equipped.And our soldiers have this helmet coz we have Sikh soldiers.


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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The answer to your why has excatly the same answer as to why hasnt the Rafael being inducted till now..*why isnt the Mig 21 being replaced when our young pilots are dying?*



EXACTLY 

As I said here

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-212.html#post4877057



Water Car Engineer said:


> IA might be in a situation if this program keeps getting delayed, because those tin can helmets, INSAS rifles, antique ammo holders, etc. are going to be it's MIG-21 waiting to be replaced by LCA, MMRCA.




The last thing I want to see is regular IA soldiers near 2020 like this. We're already in 2014!!










All of this is riding on one insane program.




COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> LOL...seriously?
> 
> Except the helmet i dont think they are better equipped.And our soldiers have this helmet coz we have Sikh soldiers.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> EXACTLY
> 
> As I said here
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-212.html#post4877057
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing I want to see is regular IA soldiers near 2020 like this. We're already in 2014!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of this is riding on one insane program.



It will only be safe if we assume that the programme is gonna be delayed considering how things happen in india.In the meanwhile the IA is inducting various weapons and equipments.Like there are currently 2 new helmets with the IA apart from the Patka,UAVs,hi tech survellience sevices and BPJs are all being inducted.


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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It will only be safe if we assume that the programme is gonna be delayed considering how things happen in india.In the meanwhile the IA is inducting various weapons and equipments.Like there are currently 2 new helmets with the IA apart from the Patka,UAVs,hi tech survellience sevices and BPJs are all being inducted.



Patkas are given to few soldiers doing CT ops in Kashmir.

Regular IA soldier are getting ballistic helmets when ever F-INSAS takes shape. <<< No clue


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## Dillinger

Water Car Engineer said:


> Patkas are given to few soldiers doing CT ops in Kashmir.
> 
> Regular IA soldier are getting ballistic helmets when ever F-INSAS takes shape. <<< No clue



The equipment required is already available in country but the OFB and the gravy train have scuttled their employment. So tough luck.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> Patkas are given to few soldiers doing CT ops in Kashmir.
> 
> Regular IA soldier are getting ballistic helmets when ever F-INSAS takes shape. <<< No clue



Patkas are given to most soldiers in CI ops.


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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Patkas are given to most soldiers in CI ops.



Which are few compared to the bulk of IA.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> Which are few compared to the bulk of IA.



RR only uses Patka and Ghataks also use Patka.


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## Unknowncommando

thia is even better full image


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> thia is even better full image



Such a shame the Sherpa is almost entirely cropped out. The journos/photographers who go to these events completely miss the woods through the trees- ahhhhH!! Why haven't we got extensive snaps of this beast on its first public outing???


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Such a shame the Sherpa is almost entirely cropped out. The journos/photographers who go to these events completely miss the woods through the trees- ahhhhH!! Why haven't we got extensive snaps of this beast on its first public outing???


completely agree with u bro. It was main attraction of the day but these people dnt even what to show. Chale babu logon ka photo nikaalne.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> thia is even better full image



So the stratergy is to have Pistols instead of guns for CQB in buses and maybe metro or airplane.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So the stratergy is to have Pistols instead of guns for CQB in buses and maybe metro or airplane.



CT units use pistols for these kinds of operations around the world. pistols are easily handled by one hand and other hand is free for climbing or holding.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> CT units use pistols for these kinds of operations around the world. pistols are easily handled by one hand and other hand is free for climbing or holding.



Not necessarily..but ya i would say keeping one hand free plus pistols are light and effective at close ranges.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Isnt this the camo HyperStealth designed for India?

ANA SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NSG commandos pledge to donate their organs - Times Of India

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## IndoUS

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Isnt this the camo HyperStealth designed for India?
> 
> ANA SF



Any idea when we will see these new camos on our regular troops?


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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Isnt this the camo HyperStealth designed for India?
> 
> ANA SF



bro there is diff in these 2 camos in ANA SF CAMO u can see mainly 2 shades of cream and green colour while in hyperstealth camo there r 3 shades of brown,green and cream colour. I guess. Doesnt look similar.


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## Abingdonboy



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## hkdas



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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


>


 Pretty cool first 15 minuets/ 



Anyone notice at 7.00 mins, there's a SF soldier in the back wearing the very camo we had discussed not long ago.



Same as this guy's:













@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


>



Excellent room clearing skills and nice gear of Army SF.

I wont comment on the camo as IA soldiers are known to use 10 different camo's.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> How about what? Most of the regular IA infantry guys Pakistan will face will be armed like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is basically early cold war equipment. They're waiting on F-INSAS.



Everything takes time...

For ex.. in the early 2000s... our regulars looked just like yours in these pics... started improving... now in 2012:

*Ruck Sack*






*Medical Kit*






*Ammo-Carrier RPG-7*






*Ammo-Carrier- 60MM Mortar*






*Pistol Holster*






*Military Hydration System*







*Tactical vest & Kevlar Ballistic Helmet*














> Pakistani army Chief General Kayani has witnessed formation level training exercises in Bahawalpur Cantt and Khairpur Tamianwali. These exercises focused on the training of Pakistani soldiers for conventional operations in the desert areas with help from the mechanized forces of Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force......Held in 2012.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

*2013:
*




















*Hence improving....Everybody starts somewhere... 
*


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## Gessler

Why are Pak units in Indian SF thread? Take them out of here and put them in their place.

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## Koovie

Gessler said:


> Why are Pak units in Indian SF thread? Take them out of here and put them in their place.



His intention is obvious... 

Its clear that we will always outspend our rival... projects on the level of F-INSAS, although delayed, will be too costly for them to afford...
Furthermore, Indian companies produce top notch gear which finds customers around the world, even the USA itself.
And last but not least, the process of upgrading regular infantry men has already started.. just look at the pics of regulars from exercises like Yudh Abyas 2012.


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## Water Car Engineer

Koovie said:


> And last but not least, the process of upgrading regular infantry men has already started.. *just look at the pics of regulars from exercises like Yudh Abyas 2012.*




I've been seeing that as well, but dont know if it's across the spectrum.


































Koovie said:


> His intention is obvious...
> 
> Its clear that we will always outspend our rival... projects on the level of F-INSAS, although delayed, will be too costly for them to afford...





Yup, their budget is very small. And their army is large. Even $45 billion of India's seems small for what they're trying to do. Let alone Pakistan's 6+ billion.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> Why are Pak units in Indian SF thread? Take them out of here and put them in their place.



Dang... i tried... but i dont think i have authority to delete them or something... anyways apologies..
@Koovie whatever niga



Water Car Engineer said:


> Yup, their budget very small. And their army is large. Even $45 billion of India's seems small for what they're trying to do. Let alone Pakistan's 6+ billion.



Yet its in better shape the indian army as of now.. also add CSF and the billions of $$ in profit from FF Group.


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## Water Car Engineer

Bro, images like these arent "early 2000s".


















Most of your regulars are still going to look similar to this. And treated like cannon fodder. With your tiny budget(6 billion is a joke) and huge army, who do you think believes that they'll have high standards?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Bro, images like these arent "early 2000s".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of your regulars are still going to look similar to this. And treated like cannon fodder. With your tiny budget(6 billion is a joke) and huge army, who do you think believes that they'll have high standards?



I can guarantee these are 3-4 year old... the belt,ranks all have been changed.. even the uniform.. and if you see the Pak military multimedia thread you would understand... (minus old pics mostly posted by mullah zarvan).

*P.S: Even in the last pic you can see change comin... soldiers in the left wearing ballistic helmets.. all of them with webbings..*

Here is another pic from 2012 held in cholistan:







Here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/30020-pakistan-military-multimedia.html


Thee troops on the frontlines were/are the first priority.


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## RPK




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

RPK said:


>



The most decorated serving officer of the IA.

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## jiki

i think quite good upgradation on SF front,in equipments,in camo as well as in tactis...........GURUs jus analyze it

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## shiv

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The most decorated serving officer of the IA.


who is he buddy ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jiki said:


> i think quite good upgradation on SF front,in equipments,in camo as well as in tactis...........GURUs jus analyze it


Yeah man..i was shocked to see an ATV.

BTW LMAO at the reporter calling an ATV as a IFV...idiots.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

shiv said:


> who is he buddy ?


Col Shekhawat of 21 Para SF.


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## Hulk

xebex said:


> Here is some more......


Which special forces are these?


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## kurup

indianrabbit said:


> Which special forces are these?



*Special Protection Group* (*SPG*)

Although I don't think they are a special force .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Army SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Heavy influence of training with the Amreekis and i feel disappointed coz this camo makes no fcking sense with Indian terrain.

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## Gessler

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Heavy influence of training with the Amreekis and i feel disappointed coz this camo makes no fcking sense with Indian terrain.



But It's good. An improvement.

The addition of ATVs is also good, I can see a leg sticking out of the Ghillie suit on the ATV and that has the same digital camo.


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## Gessler



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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Heavy influence of training with the Amreekis and i feel disappointed coz this camo makes no fcking sense with Indian terrain.


An interesting choice indeed, so the PARAs follow the MARCOs in adopting the US UCP. For naval ops the UCP perhaps makes more sense and for desert ops the UCP is far from ideal but at least they're no longer running around in jungle camo in such conditions!



Also the US SFs didn't seem to have much objection to using such camo patterns in Iraq and Afghanistan:


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## Gessler



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## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


>


They need much better webbing/plate carriers (as seen on the Green Berets above). 

And did they leave their assualt rifles/Tavors at home? Haven't seen a single pic of them with their ARs.


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## Abingdonboy

Just noticed the guys at 14.10- who demo the CQB are wearing the USMC-style jungle MARPAT camo:


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## Chronos

I know this is the special forces thread, but has the Indian government thought about having a special tactical wing of the police akin to the SWAT team?


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## kurup

Ravi Nair said:


> I know this is the special forces thread, but has the Indian government thought about having a special tactical wing of the police akin to the SWAT team?



I think most states are setting up those mainly to counter terrorism .

The process has got pace after the mumbai attacks .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

These are desert scorpions..i have doubts if the entire Para SF is gonna adopt this camo.


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## Abingdonboy

Ravi Nair said:


> I know this is the special forces thread, but has the Indian government thought about having a special tactical wing of the police akin to the SWAT team?


 Most states have such forces. And the cnetral govt has the NSG, see:





 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> These are desert scorpions..i have doubts if the entire Para SF is gonna adopt this camo.


 Entire PARA regmt (SF and Airborne) will adopt this camo mate but not as their standard camo, heard this from my ex-PARA uncle. These days all SF btns are cross-trained and can operate in any enviroment. Whilst these guys might be called the desert scorpians it doesn't mean they can't or won't be sent to the jungles 0r mountains to fight nor does it mean they are the only SF btn capable or trained in operating in the deserts- any SF btn could do it so all need this camo (even though it isn't a strictly desert camo)


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Most states have such forces. And the cnetral govt has the NSG, see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entire PARA regmt (SF and Airborne) will adopt this camo mate but not as their standard camo, heard this from my ex-PARA uncle. These days all SF btns are cross-trained and can operate in any enviroment. Whilst these guys might be called the desert scorpians it doesn't mean they can't or won't be sent to the jungles 0r mountains to fight nor does it mean they are the only SF btn capable or trained in operating in the deserts- any SF btn could do it so all need this camo (even though it isn't a strictly desert camo)



I dont think so.And mate you are very very wrong.

I cant share classified info but do you know out of the many SF battalions only 1 particular battalion which i wont name is deployed in Kashmir.While other Parachute regtts send their troopers to 32 RR but this particular battalion has 120 operators in the valley always ready for action backed by the only Army SF heli squadron 24/7.Any incident and these guys get heli dropped in the area.

You have very casually taken the term Desert Scorpions but it is not the case.Desert Scorpions have been around deserts always.I have never heard of them getting their location changed and being sent to N-E.Similarly i have never heard 21 SF being sent to rajasthan.Or 9 SF being sent to N-E.I dont read the bullshit which gets posted in WIKI and make it my source of knowledge and i would advice you the same and let me tell you that Desert Scorpions aka The 10th battalion Para Commandos SF are the only ones in Rajasthan.So each time there is an excercise in Rajasthan they are the ones taking part and not the 9PAra or 21 Para.It is not feasable for all SF units to practise raids and the one having the expertise since decades cant be sent to high altitude for them to loose all their skill in raids to learn about high altitude warfare and in the process become jack of all trades.

Obviously they train together and have a common school in Nahan but some units have a particular task given.
From where i see it they have a primary task in war and then a secondary task of CI ops.it is written nowhere in the net and which is something i presume seeing their deployment history.

Lastly about the camo.You were earlier pointing out to the OTA camo saying it might be the new camo and now you are saying that this camo would be the new camo..I am really confused.the other day in Dhoni's show i saw the other camo being worn by the operators.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Incase some of you are wondering what Desert Scorpions are;-












Even the Defence Analyst carefully calls them Desert Commandos..and i fail to see how this is possible if any unit can be sent anywhere.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont think so.And mate you are very very wrong.
> 
> I cant share classified info but do you know out of the many SF battalions only 1 particular battalion which i wont name is deployed in Kashmir.While other Parachute regtts send their troopers to 32 RR but this particular battalion has 120 operators in the valley always ready for action backed by the only Army SF heli squadron 24/7.Any incident and these guys get heli dropped in the area.
> 
> You have very casually taken the term Desert Scorpions but it is not the case.Desert Scorpions have been around deserts always.I have never heard of them getting their location changed and being sent to N-E.Similarly i have never heard 21 SF being sent to rajasthan.Or 9 SF being sent to N-E.I dont read the bullshit which gets posted in WIKI and make it my source of knowledge and i would advice you the same and let me tell you that Desert Scorpions aka The 10th battalion Para Commandos SF are the only ones in Rajasthan.So each time there is an excercise in Rajasthan they are the ones taking part and not the 9PAra or 21 Para.It is not feasable for all SF units to practise raids and the one having the expertise since decades cant be sent to high altitude for them to loose all their skill in raids to learn about high altitude warfare and in the process become jack of all trades.
> 
> Obviously they train together and have a common school in Nahan but some units have a particular task given.
> From where i see it they have a primary task in war and then a secondary task of CI ops.it is written nowhere in the net and which is something i presume seeing their deployment history.
> 
> Lastly about the camo.You were earlier pointing out to the OTA camo saying it might be the new camo and now you are saying that this camo would be the new camo..I am really confused.the other day in Dhoni's show i saw the other camo being worn by the operators.


Talking specifically about this camo business the UCP:





Is NOT to be the standard camo of the PARAs merely ONE OF their camos.


The standard camo for the PARAs looks like it will be the USMC MARPAT woodland print:









The UCP is an okay choice for urban and deserts but far from ideal for the latter. There must be logic behind their selections but I'd have preferred the above MARPAT woodland camo to be complimented by the MARPAT's desert pattern:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Talking specifically about this camo business the UCP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is NOT to be the standard camo of the PARAs merely ONE OF their camos.
> 
> 
> The standard camo for the PARAs looks like it will be the USMC MARPAT woodland print:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UCP is an okay choice for urban and deserts but far from ideal for the latter. There must be logic behind their selections but I'd have preferred the above MARPAT woodland camo to be complimented by the MARPAT's desert pattern:



So only SF will be getting it or the entire Parachute regtt?Or the entire Infantry with Ghataks?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So only SF will be getting it or the entire Parachute regtt?Or the entire Infantry with Ghataks?


Entire PARA regmt. No way are infantry getting UCP, will have to wait and see what camo the F-INSAS brings with it. Can't say for certain about Ghataks- unlikely though, they'll stick to whatever camo the rest of the IA/infantry have.


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont think so.And mate you are very very wrong.
> 
> I cant share classified info but do you know out of the many SF battalions only 1 particular battalion which i wont name is deployed in Kashmir.While other Parachute regtts send their troopers to 32 RR but this particular battalion has 120 operators in the valley always ready for action backed by the only Army SF heli squadron 24/7.Any incident and these guys get heli dropped in the area.
> 
> You have very casually taken the term Desert Scorpions but it is not the case.Desert Scorpions have been around deserts always.I have never heard of them getting their location changed and being sent to N-E.Similarly i have never heard 21 SF being sent to rajasthan.Or 9 SF being sent to N-E.I dont read the bullshit which gets posted in WIKI and make it my source of knowledge and i would advice you the same and let me tell you that Desert Scorpions aka The 10th battalion Para Commandos SF are the only ones in Rajasthan.So each time there is an excercise in Rajasthan they are the ones taking part and not the 9PAra or 21 Para.It is not feasable for all SF units to practise raids and the one having the expertise since decades cant be sent to high altitude for them to loose all their skill in raids to learn about high altitude warfare and in the process become jack of all trades.
> 
> Obviously they train together and have a common school in Nahan but some units have a particular task given.
> From where i see it they have a primary task in war and then a secondary task of CI ops.it is written nowhere in the net and which is something i presume seeing their deployment history.
> 
> Lastly about the camo.You were earlier pointing out to the OTA camo saying it might be the new camo and now you are saying that this camo would be the new camo..I am really confused.the other day in Dhoni's show i saw the other camo being worn by the operators.




bro, may be they are testing different camos for the special forces. in this video




 you can see many types of camos used by SF. i don't think they will choose UCP as it is criticised even by US army. now they are using MultiCam in Afghanistan.


----------



## Gessler

That camo on the far right...where do they get such stuff?


----------



## hkdas

Gessler said:


>


are you sure they are SF?? Russian army didn't bring any sf for this exercise.


----------



## RPK




----------



## RPK




----------



## Gessler

hkdas said:


> are you sure they are SF?? Russian army didn't bring any sf for this exercise.



They sure do look like Para commandos.

@Abingdonboy


----------



## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> They sure do look like Para commandos.
> 
> @Abingdonboy


they are 100% PARA (SF). look at their cap badges.



Who else could they be? They certainly aren't Russian!


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> they are 100% PARA (SF). look at their cap badges.
> 
> 
> 
> Who else could they be? They certainly aren't Russian!



generally same kind of units conduct joint exercise. they may be regular airborne units of Indian army. the media will report any unit who had a good look as special forces. indian army conducts joint exercise with same type of units(eg. special forces wih special forces, mechanized forces with their counterpart) in this exercise russian army didn't bring their SFs so that photo is of regular paras(airborne).


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> generally same kind of units conduct joint exercise. they may be regular airborne units of Indian army. the media will report any unit who had a good look as special forces. indian army conducts joint exercise with same type of units(eg. special forces wih special forces, mechanized forces with their counterpart) in this exercise russian army didn't bring their SFs so that photo is of regular paras(airborne).



This is Defence forum logic..Kindly do not apply.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> An interesting choice indeed, so the PARAs follow the MARCOs in adopting the US UCP. For naval ops the UCP perhaps makes more sense and for desert ops the UCP is far from ideal but at least they're no longer running around in jungle camo in such conditions!
> 
> 
> 
> Also the US SFs didn't seem to have much objection to using such camo patterns in Iraq and Afghanistan:



Typical terrain of Afghanistan....again read abt US soldiers complaints abt the camo being easy for taliban to spot... etc.. and the decision to kill it prematurely.. a failed camo...


https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164686/How-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE

https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/07/camouflage_problems_in_the_army_the_ucp_and_the_future_of_digital_camo_.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHTuP80IQ0CpjhMiB8DkVmzSKB3vg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE


https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164686/How-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE



Multicam prefered (like every country):

US soldiers in Afghanistan:






Australian:






coldhearted might not like it but here:

Pakistan:

(Not in full combat dressed )





British:





Polish:


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Typical terrain of Afghanistan....again read abt US soldiers complaints abt the camo being easy for taliban to spot... etc.. and the decision to kill it prematurely.. a failed camo...
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164686/How-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE
> 
> https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/07/camouflage_problems_in_the_army_the_ucp_and_the_future_of_digital_camo_.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHTuP80IQ0CpjhMiB8DkVmzSKB3vg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164686/How-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE
> 
> 
> 
> Multicam prefered (like every country):
> 
> US soldiers in Afghanistan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australian:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coldhearted might not like it but here:
> 
> Pakistan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polish:


 It's not as clear cut as that mate. To this day the UCP is STILL the standard camo of the US army and Army SF despite multi-cam being availble. So clearly the UCP has its advantadges in certain enviroments and on certain missions, there is no doubt about that.

Like I've said this UCP camo isn't going to become the IA SF's standard issue camo just ONE of the many patterns they have availble to them- simple as that.


For the IA regulars (grunts and such) they won't ever be issued with the UCP but will be getting new camos in the coming years under the F-INSAS program.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> generally same kind of units conduct joint exercise. they may be regular airborne units of Indian army. the media will report any unit who had a good look as special forces. indian army conducts joint exercise with same type of units(eg. special forces wih special forces, mechanized forces with their counterpart) in this exercise russian army didn't bring their SFs so that photo is of regular paras(airborne).


 Well that's clearly NOT the case here is it? These are 100% SF. The Indian military employed capabilties and units across the board with a mission-first approach.

Your assertion that militaries ONLY employ similar units in military exercises is clearly flawed as the US sent no SFs to Yudh Abhays 2013 but the IA SF were again present.


Yes it is common for units with similar roles to train together but that doesn't make it a rule.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> It's not as clear cut as that mate. To this day the UCP is STILL the standard camo of the US army and Army SF despite multi-cam being availble. So clearly the UCP has its advantadges in certain enviroments and on certain missions, there is no doubt about that.
> 
> Like I've said this UCP camo isn't going to become the IA SF's standard issue camo just ONE of the many patterns they have availble to them- simple as that.
> 
> 
> For the IA regulars (grunts and such) they won't ever be issued with the UCP but will be getting new camos in the coming years under the F-INSAS program.



The UCP might work for ur navy but indian terrain? makes no sense.. even the US troops in Astan have shifted away to the new culticams.. why coz despite the terrain (which still suites the UCP than deserts,jungles or plains of india) its easy to spot.. the only thing tht stopped the americans was the 5+ billion $ spend on the "failed" UCP....* which has now been replaced*:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-hero-project/articles/2013/10/14/the-army-s-5-billion-new-uniform-already-being-replaced.html&ei=vfpuUpr9E7Gg4APL_4DgBg&usg=AFQjCNGfUawqtEqJ5e23X07rarx_2k_F4g&bvm=bv.55123115,d.dmg


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## Water Car Engineer

The new US camo would be nice of IA, I think.






Or something little more tan.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> The new US camo would be nice of IA, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or something little more tan.



More tan,khaki type uniform.. i guess.


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## Water Car Engineer

Yeah, akin to the Bhisma, which look excellent in Thar.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

LOL..i have a feeling the SF operators who have been to US just bough a few US Army uniforms to wear in India.


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## Gessler

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> LOL..i have a feeling the SF operators who have been to US just bough a few US Army uniforms to wear in India.



SFs have access to a wide range of uniforms, this UCP seems to be just one of those versions being trialed out in combat exercises.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Gessler said:


> SFs have access to a wide range of uniforms, this UCP seems to be just one of those versions being trialed out in combat exercises.



Used not trialed if you ask me.


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## Gessler

@DESERT FIGHTER

SFs use a wide variety of uniforms and this is only one of them. Paras also use a type of multicam/MARPAT -











They also use type of UCP, and it's not right to say it's useless -


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## Gessler

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Used not trialed if you ask me.



The new digital camo is not in standard circulation yet. They are still testing it out in various conditions and environments
to choose the best thing available and wear it at appropriate time.

And what better way to test effectiveness of camo other than in a combat exercise?


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Water Car Engineer

http://nandlaltopiwale.com/

This company supplies them their gear.


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## Water Car Engineer

Couldn't find the digital version of these, but they have it obviously.


http://nandlaltopiwale.com/

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS performing anti terror mock drill at sonegaon air base. sorry for the quality. snaps frommy mob fone

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## Unknowncommando

plzz guys dnt comment on camo. had 45 min long chat vth them. they said everyone of us is deployed in varius places so according to terrain we wear camo and when we get together we all look different. twice or thrice in a month they get deployed on different place. as u can many camos.this guys are really awesome!!!!!

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

one 1st para sf commando was also present there.he said he just vising the show and para sfs are not deployed.

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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando good job bro!


Could you share any other info your gleaned from your 45 min convo with these guys?


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> plzz guys dnt comment on camo. had 45 min long chat vth them. they said everyone of us is deployed in varius places so according to terrain we wear camo and when we get together we all look different. twice or thrice in a month they get deployed on different place. as u can many camos.this guys are really awesome!!!!!


Interesting that the Garuds too seem to be adopting digicam.


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## hkdas

SEAL trident at right side

Capt.Ajay Thapa(ret.)

Former Marcos

he had participated in Operation Muffet in Somalia alongside US Navy SEALs.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> one 1st para sf commando was also present there.he said he just vising the show and para sfs are not deployed.



I really liked this pic..This guy being a SF operator himself came to see how the Garuds operate.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


>




Not the best watch for a SF operator i guess.


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Interesting that the Garuds too seem to be adopting digicam.


ya bro he was deployed in naxal areas

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## Biplab Bijay

Unknowncommando said:


>


I know this guy. I have seen him somewhere. I can not remember now.


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## kurup



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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando you say the Garuds are constantly deployed all over the place but what kind of roles are they doing? Force protection? And if so to what assets? And why are they being constantly rotated out onto different missions? What's with this seemingly high-tempo nature?


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## Unknowncommando

Biplab Bijay said:


> I know this guy. I have seen him somewhere. I can not remember now.


BRO which guy there are many in these pics


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Biplab Bijay

Unknowncommando said:


> BRO which guy there are many in these pics


The guy standing with that commando.


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## hkdas

Marine Commandos in Mogadishu Somalia during Ops Muffet

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## DESERT FIGHTER

A Delhi police commando stands guard during the full dress rehearshal for the 67th Independence Day celebrations at the Red Fort in New Delhi on August 13, 2013. Security has been increased in the Indian capital following inputs from Central Security agencies that allege that the Pakistan-based Lashker-e-Taiba terror group are planning to attack markets and government offices of strategic importance during the country's independence day celebrations which take place August 15. AFP PHOTO/ Prakash SINGH (Photo credit should read PRAKASH SINGH/AFP/Getty Images)
Date created:13 Aug 2013


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## hkdas

Marco taking rest after long Ops in J & K



 marcos on completion of High Altitude Diving Course.

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> Marco taking rest after long Ops in J &


That water must be absolutely freezing (yes I see the umbilical pumping hot water- and no wonder)!


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> That water must be absolutely freezing (yes I see the umbilical pumping hot water- and no wonder)!


i think he may be an instructor in HADC


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> i think he may be an instructor in HADC


what makes you say that?


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> what makes you say that?


generally, students are trained mainly without that mask in HADC, his body language is more of an instructor.


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## Abingdonboy

Guys, just got back after a meet up with my uncle here in my Uni city. This is the same uncle who until recently served in the 7 PARA (Airborne). He is back in the UK for a month or so after going home to India in the summer. He had A LOT to say and some very juicy details/stories that he finally gave up (well a few) and I'll be writing these up soon but it's late here right now.


But I'll give you guys this one little anecdote. During his time in a QRT of RR in JK in 2007-9 (iI don't want to give an exact date, and frankly he refused to give me one also) he and his team had been called out to this remote village where a known Pakistani-trained militant was said to be holding up for a couple of nights. The RR teams and JK police cordoned the village in silence (it was night). The QRT travelled in a smallish convey of jeeps and 1 Stallion. The QRT was gearing up to make entry into the village to conduct a search of the village when the local RR commander told them to stand down. My uncle (who was 2IC of the QRT asked the commander what was up and got an answer back along the lines of "you'll see" with a wry smile). So they all waited around completely unsure of what was going on, a few minuets later they hear the faint sound of chopper blades and then suddenly (my uncle emphasised how sudden it was, apparently these AAC SQDs who support SOF ops fly literally at tree-top height!) 3 ALHs are on the scene, they did a couple of circles of the village (i'm told to assess the scene- they have maps but in these cases getting eyes on the target is essential) before they hovered low and men fast-roped into the village. Literally seconds later they were assaulting 2 particular huts. A few moments later they were coming out, one hut was empty the other had a family which was brought out and handed over to the police for questioning. The RR then did a thorough search of both houses (using CO2 detectors and sniffer dogs) before calling the huts clear and allowing the family to return. The men from the helos then swiftly returned to their helos (apprently the helos had to stack up in the air as there was only enough space for one ALH to land at a time). So whilst this was a bust of an op it was pretty cool nonetheless and really stuck with my Uncle as he said it was one of the more dramatic non-stater ops he'd ever been on!


Some points he mentioned but I didn't include in my narrative:

-Safe to assume these were PARA (SF) but my uncle didn't explicitly state this. 
- The men from the helos were dressed in black with green/tan webbing/plate carriers, some wore balaclavas, some didn't. 
-They carried Tavors and M4s (with Isreali RD sights). 
- They had Oakley ballistic protection eyewear (my uncle was annoyed about this at the time as he had had to buy such pairs of glasses out of his own pocket the year before. Apparently he got a pair from the IA just before he was declared medically unfit as it is now the norm in PARA btns to get issued such eyewear.
-When the ALHs deployed the men, 1 circled over low and had 2 snipers sat on the skids holding neither Galil nor SVD sniper rifles (my uncle couldn't get a clear look at what the rifle was but he knew for a fact ti wasn't either of them).
- All the operators had NVGs but only single-tube.
- The guys didn't interact with the local police or RR- not even the QRT except for the officer commanding the unit who spoke to the local commander.
- none of the operators were wearing ranks/insignia/name tags (which is the norm in the RR these days) but were wearing badges indicating their blood types (this is actually common to those deployed in JK also).

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## Water Car Engineer



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys, just got back after a meet up with my uncle here in my Uni city. This is the same uncle who until recently served in the 7 PARA (Airborne). He is back in the UK for a month or so after going home to India in the summer. He had A LOT to say and some very juicy details/stories that he finally gave up (well a few) and I'll be writing these up soon but it's late here right now.
> 
> 
> But I'll give you guys this one little anecdote. During his time in a QRT of RR in JK in 2007-9 (iI don't want to give an exact date, and frankly he refused to give me one also) he and his team had been called out to this remote village where a known *Pakistani-trained militant* was said to be holding up for a couple of nights. The RR teams and JK police cordoned the village in silence (it was night). The QRT travelled in a smallish convey of jeeps and 1 Stallion. The QRT was gearing up to make entry into the village to conduct a search of the village when the local RR commander told them to stand down. My uncle (who was 2IC of the QRT asked the commander what was up and got an answer back along the lines of "you'll see" with a wry smile). So they all waited around completely unsure of what was going on, a few minuets later they hear the faint sound of chopper blades and then suddenly (my uncle emphasised how sudden it was, apparently these AAC SQDs who support SOF ops fly literally at tree-top height!) 3 ALHs are on the scene, they did a couple of circles of the village (i'm told to assess the scene- they have maps but in these cases getting eyes on the target is essential) before they hovered low and men fast-roped into the village. Literally seconds later they were assaulting 2 particular huts. A few moments later they were coming out, one hut was empty the other had a family which was brought out and handed over to the police for questioning. The RR then did a thorough search of both houses (using CO2 detectors and sniffer dogs) before calling the huts clear and allowing the family to return. The men from the helos then swiftly returned to their helos (apprently the helos had to stack up in the air as there was only enough space for one ALH to land at a time). So whilst this was a bust of an op it was pretty cool nonetheless and really stuck with my Uncle as he said it was one of the more dramatic non-stater ops he'd ever been on!
> 
> 
> Some points he mentioned but I didn't include in my narrative:
> 
> -Safe to assume these were PARA (SF) but my uncle didn't explicitly state this.
> - The men from the helos were dressed in black with green/tan webbing/plate carriers, some wore balaclavas, some didn't.
> -They carried Tavors and M4s (with Isreali RD sights).
> - They had Oakley ballistic protection eyewear (my uncle was annoyed about this at the time as he had had to buy such pairs of glasses out of his own pocket the year before. Apparently he got a pair from the IA just before he was declared medically unfit as it is now the norm in PARA btns to get issued such eyewear.
> -When the ALHs deployed the men, 1 circled over low and had 2 snipers sat on the skids holding neither Galil nor SVD sniper rifles (my uncle couldn't get a clear look at what the rifle was but he knew for a fact ti wasn't either of them).
> - All the operators had NVGs but only single-tube.
> - The guys didn't interact with the local police or RR- not even the QRT except for the officer commanding the unit who spoke to the local commander.
> - none of the operators were wearing ranks/insignia/name tags (which is the norm in the RR these days) but were wearing badges indicating their blood types (this is actually common to those deployed in JK also).



Thts bs.... india blames JuD right... let me tell you the army has no links with them dude... if they were involved decades ago.. they probably trained themselves... without military support..


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Thts bs.... india blames JuD right... let me tell you the army has no links with them dude... if they were involved decades ago.. they probably trained themselves... without military support..


Bro, this is just what I was told. Apparently though this was the intel they had. And this guy was from JK but had gone across the LoC in the 90s for training. He was a pretty senior scumbag.


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## hkdas

Marcos in Kashmir valley

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> Marcos in Kashmir valley




Nice camo ...





Unfortunately... doesnt do its job... am i right @Abingdonboy 

P.S: Whats a SF guy doing in streets of IOK>?


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nice camo ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately... doesnt do its job... am i right @Abingdonboy
> 
> P.S: Whats a SF guy doing in streets of IOK>?


I'd like to know where this is.


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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nice camo ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately... doesnt do its job... am i right @Abingdonboy
> 
> P.S: Whats a SF guy doing in streets of IOK>?




US navy seals are also seen in the streets of Kabul. This pics is taken after terror strikes in Kashmir 


Abingdonboy said:


> I'd like to know where this is.


 in Srinagar, kashmir marcos in action

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> US navy seals are also seen in the streets of Kabul. This pics is taken after terror strikes in Kashmir
> in Srinagar, kashmir marcos in action



Nice comparison.. 

P.S: Tell us abt the body armor in use with indian SF... looks similiar to what the indian infantry troops are using...


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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nice comparison..
> 
> P.S: Tell us abt the body armor in use with indian SF... looks similiar to what the indian infantry troops are using...



we only compare Special forces with other Special forces and we never do this:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/601163_397065877062646_651636698_n.jpg
you know SF in Kashmir use different types of BPJ.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> we only compare Special forces with other Special forces and we never do this:
> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/601163_397065877062646_651636698_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/601163_397065877062646_651636698_n.jpg

Some fanboy did tht..



> you know SF in Kashmir use different types of BPJ.


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## born killer

these are of RR in occupied kashmir


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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> I'd like to know where this is.


 i really doubt it as the valley bcoz i have seen these guys in the new universal camo at ins shivaji lonavala and infront of IN office in colaba,mumbai... i m also skeptical that those are really marcos or simply SPB......


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## hkdas

jiki said:


> i really doubt it as the valley bcoz i have seen these guys in the new universal camo at ins shivaji lonavala and infront of IN office in colaba,mumbai... i m also skeptical that those are really marcos or simply SPB......


he is marcos. 100% sure(the dark yellow patch is of marcos SPB use white patch). AFAIK that place is Srinagar

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> i really doubt it as the valley bcoz i have seen these guys in the new universal camo at ins shivaji lonavala and infront of IN office in colaba,mumbai... i m also skeptical that those are really marcos or simply SPB......


This operator is MARCOs- the badge on his right arm is the MARCOs badge:











Mate, it'd be GREAT if you could snap some pics of those SPB guys in Mumbai and Lonavala! 


What weapons were those SPB guys carrying?


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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> This operator is MARCOs- the badge on his right arm is the MARCOs badge:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mate, it'd be GREAT if you could snap some pics of those SPB guys in Mumbai and Lonavala!
> 
> 
> What weapons were those SPB guys carrying?



thnx buddy reminding me abt that batches i missed dat part btw at lonavala 2 of the folks was on a bike and i was really  at that time(i hope u r bit aware of what lonavala purported to be), so missed that but yes here in colaba once der were 2 guys with simply black camo and IOF 9 mm1A1(sure that those were spb) but in a other occasion i got one guy with univ camo and MP5 but yes never caught a tavor ever

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## Neptune

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Typical terrain of Afghanistan....again read abt US soldiers complaints abt the camo being easy for taliban to spot... etc.. and the decision to kill it prematurely.. a failed camo...
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164686/How-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE[/[URL='https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2164686%2FHow-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE']https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164686/How-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE[/[URL='https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2164686%2FHow-U-S-Army-spent-5BILLION-failed-pixel-camouflage--wanted-look-cooler-Marines.html&ei=2vRuUomGDsfW0QX1ioC4CA&usg=AFQjCNHEZ_EBzKi5DRXemTnO_9nC9DwSFg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.bGE']https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rc[/URL][/URL]



brother, does Pakistan use multicam?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Neptune said:


> Typical terrain of Afghanistan....again read abt US soldiers complaints abt the camo being easy for taliban to spot... etc.. and the decision to kill it prematurely.. a failed camo...
> Redirect Notice





Neptune said:


> brother, does Pakistan use multicam?



Yes braat... here is Pak Armys multicam:

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes braat... a new multicam was introduced a few months ago:


That's not MultiCam. That's a new camo but not the trademarked MultiCam print.


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## Neptune

@DESERT FIGHTER @Abingdonboy

nice though. When the Navy didn't like the army's nano camo, the MoND have aquired MultiCam to Underwater Assault Teams, here's a capture from NATO Operation Ocean Shield

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> That's not MultiCam. That's a new camo but not the trademarked MultiCam print.



Oooh okay.. 

A few Multicams in service with NATO:


























*PAs multicam :*






*P.S: Tell us more abt "trademarked print" ...  *


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## Abingdonboy

CRPF COBRA:


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## Gessler

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nice camo ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately... doesnt do its job... am i right @Abingdonboy
> 
> P.S: Whats a SF guy doing in streets of IOK>?



What kind of camo do you think he should be wearing?


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## bloo




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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> What kind of camo do you think he should be wearing?



Something tht works for you guys... the ACU sticks out like a sore thumb even in afghanistans rocky terrain... there is a reason they prematurely cancelled it and are spending billions on a new camo..


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## Gessler

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Something tht works for you guys... the ACU sticks out like a sore thumb even in afghanistans rocky terrain... there is a reason they prematurely cancelled it and are spending billions on a new camo..



Afghanistan is mostly desert & rocks.

Kashmir AO is mostly urban, with vegetation & a few desert/rocky spots. The
digital camo worn by that commando suits this area fine.

I think you are referring to MultiCam. MultiCam certainly doesn't suit the area where that
MARCO is standing.

Imagine someone with a MultiCam taking cover by building blocks &
cement roads. That will certainly stick out like a sore thumb.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> Afghanistan is mostly desert & rocks.
> 
> Kashmir AO is mostly urban, with vegetation & a few desert/rocky spots. The
> digital camo worn by that commando suits this area fine.
> 
> I think you are referring to MultiCam. MultiCam certainly doesn't suit the area where that
> MARCO is standing.
> 
> Imagine someone with a MultiCam taking cover by building blocks &
> cement roads. That will certainly stick out like a sore thumb.



Do you think militants hide in cities? and the operations take place in cities? most of the articles posted here mostly talk abt operations in the forested regions..

ACU in forestation and even the rocky terrain of afghanistan proved to be a failure... I had posted the links to articles in this thread ...replying to abingdon...


See how easy it is to spot:






Indian sf:







P.S: In CQB camo (unless its black or dark) doesnt much matter... do you think a guy in ACU would blend in with the environment in a building or complex?


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## Gessler

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Do you think militants hide in cities? and the operations take place in cities? most of the articles posted here mostly talk abt operations in the forested regions..



Militants can hide anywhere. That said, the environment in Kashmir is the same
as in Afghanistan? That's a nope.



> ACU in forestation and even the rocky terrain of afghanistan proved to be a failure... I had posted the links to articles in this thread ...replying to abingdon...
> 
> 
> See how easy it is to spot:
> 
> View attachment 10652



It's easy to find a contradicting image, but that doesn't prove your point
in all situations. Look at this -


















Blending enough?



> Indian sf:
> 
> View attachment 10653



This is not Kashmir, and Kashmir is not like this.

This was from an exercise with Russian Army and the camo isn't being issued, but
just one of the many types of new camo that is being "trialed out" in combat
exercises by the Paras.

I think I already showed you another camo of Para -











Now you have seem Indian SFs use 2 distinct types of new camo. One is UCP/ACP
type digital camo, the other is similar to MultiCam and/or MARPAT, ideal for jungle
ops where is a lot of trees & stuff. There are likely to be more types of uniforms
under trials in different locations & environment.

Our COBRAs have already adopted MARPAT and it seems it is showing results in
their ops against Naxals deep in the jungles.



> P.S: In CQB camo (unless its black or dark) doesnt much matter... do you think a guy in ACU would blend in with the environment in a building or complex?



Haha, very funny. I think it would be nice if you would...

1) Don't draw conclusions while the camos are still be trialed and none of the new
types are in active circulation as yet. We don't know what camo will make it to the
final orders either.

2) Don't take Indian SFs for stupids, nor take American forces' Afghan experience
as the deciding factor for all SFs & militaries in the world, in all types of situations
and environments, some of which are distinctly different from Afghan.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> Militants can hide anywhere. That said, the environment in Kashmir is the same
> as in Afghanistan? That's a nope.



Sure... but tell me abt ACU being used in a vegetated region.. 



> It's easy to find a contradicting image, but that doesn't prove your point
> in all situations. Look at this -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blending enough?




You tell me:






Stephanie Himango/NBC, via Getty
*UNIFORM FAILURE*
*The Army’s $5 billion New Uniform Already Being Replaced*
OCT 14, 2013 5:45 AM - BY CAITLIN DICKSON
Eight years after spending $5 billion on a heavily-criticized universal camouflage pattern, the Army is back at the drawing board looking for a new design that’s estimated to cost another $4 billion.


In 2004, the Army decided to scrap the two traditional camouflage uniforms that had long been used by the military—one meant for woodland environments, another for the desert—and claimed to have come up with a universal pattern that could be worn anywhere and blend in with any environment. The $5 billion dollar experiment with the universal pattern is over as the Army is phasing out the uniform after less than a decade of use. But many soldiers and observers are wondering why it took this long and cost this much to replace an item that performed poorly from the start during a period when the money could have been spent on other critical needs, like potentially life saving improvements to military vehicles and body armor.

Less than a decade after the so-called Universal Camouflage Pattern, or UCP, was introduced the Army is back to the drawing board, set to announce a new camouflage pattern and standard uniform to be worn by the more than million members of the active duty and reserve forces.

Evidence of the UCPs inadequacy as a combat uniform is easy to find—just look at pictures of soldiers currently serving in Afghanistan, they’re not wearing the UCP, which was deemed unsuitable for operations there, but a different uniform known as the MultiCam. In 2009,Congress responded to soldiers’ “concerns about the current combat uniform which they indicated provides ineffective camouflage given the environment in Afghanistan,” by passing a bill in the appropriations act requiring that the DOD “take immediate action to provide combat uniforms to personnel deployed to Afghanistan with a camouflage pattern that is suited to the environment of Afghanistan.” The result was the MultiCam. But that uniform, while it is currently worn in Afghanistan, was not a replacement but an interim substitution for the UCP, which is still the Army’s official uniform and the one worn by all soldiers not overseas.

*Only 5 years after it was introduced the UCP’s failures had already become glaring enough to compel congressional intervention but despite the moratorium on its use in Afghanistan, *it will have taken another 5 years for the Army to field its replacement.

Eventually, after mounting criticism and reports of the uniforms problems, the Army started looking for something better. This time, instead of hoping for a universal, one-size-fits-all design, an Army source who wished to remain unnamed explained that the Army solicited designs from companies for patterns with three variations, one for the desert, another for woodlands and jungles and a third, traditional semi-wooded pattern similar to the one currently used by soldiers in Afghanistan. After several rounds of testing, four patterns with three variations for each, from companies in New York, Virginia and Alaska were submitted to the Army to choose a winner.

Critics say this has been a huge waste of money.

Last year, the Government Accountability Office, a federal watchdog agency, issued a report taking the Army to task for spending $5 billion on UCP-covered uniforms and field equipment, only to spend an estimated $4 billion replacing them with whatever design it picks next. The Natick Army Soldier Systems Center, which does research and development on things like food, clothing, shelter for the military, conducted two studies on the Universal Camouflage Pattern, once in 2006 and again in 2009, both times finding that the UCP’s performance came up short when compared to other, more popular camouflages, like the Marine Corps desert pattern or the MultiCam. Natick scientists also went on record alleging that the Army had already selected the UCP before testing on it was completed and a full evaluation could be made of its performance compared to other designs.

Representatives from Natick did not return requests for comment on this story and the Government Accountability Office is currently closed due to the government shutdown.

But these reports only reinforce the views expressed by, arguably the most important critics of the Army’s near-decade long quest for the perfect uniform: the soldiers who have to wear them.

During former Army Officer Matt Gallagher’s 15-month deployment to Iraq from 2007-2009, he became well acquainted with the shortfalls of the universal camouflage pattern. In an attempt to blend in with all kinds of environments, the pattern instead wound up sticking out everywhere, its grey, gravel design that only a help to soldiers hoping to blend in with a parking lot. Gallagher said his soldiers would call the uniform pajamas, “both a testament to its comfort and its inability to look right on anyone, no matter their build.” But Gallagher found that the biggest concern with the UCP in Iraq was shoddy velcro.

“On a night raid, if it gets caught on a wire or something, it would make a crunchy sound that might alert insurgents to a soldier’s location,” he said. “That wouldn’t happen with just cloth.”

Army Sergeant Matt Pelak laughs at the mention of the universal camouflage pattern.

“It is one of the things that drives me craziest about the army I have to admit,” he told The Daily Beast. We started rolling it out in ‘05 and everyone was baffled by it.”

While Pelak admits there were some upsides to the design, such as easy-to-access pockets, his complaints outweighed the positives.

“Even currently, in my unit that I’m in now, we wear the normal uniform, the UCP when we’re back on base, but when we go in the field we wear MultiCam,” he said. “We have to carry two uniforms around, one that functions properly and one that’s merely administrative.”

Pelak points out this is hardly the first time the Army has spent billions of dollars on insufficient equipment just to spend more money to replace it, recalling the $20 billion Future Combat Systems program that launched in 2003 to develop a fleet of universally used lightweight armored vehicles and was canceled in 2009, ultimately considered a failure.

“It’s as ridiculous as buying 20 million humvees to go to war in that weren’t armored and then when the war started they had to build all new humvees that were bullet proof,” he said. “It’s that absurd.”

Pelak is not hesitant to admit that, within the ranks, the seemingly unnecessary and wasteful uniform program smells like “a giant conspiracy.”

“People in the military associate certain projects with nepotism, a Good Old Boy network,” Pelak said. “Maybe someone’s brother owns the company that designs the uniforms, or he’s on the Defense Appropriations Committee. No one knows exactly, but there are a lot of theories that all involve some sort of cronyism or backhand deal.”

If it were up to Gallagher, the billions that have been spent on two rounds of designing, testing, issuing new uniforms would instead go to finishing a water treatment plant that was started when he was in Iraq. “The local citizens need that treatment plant far more than we need a new batch of uniforms,” he said.

Neither Gallagher nor Pelak are sure that the ambitious goal of designing a universally functional pattern is realistic, but they both agree that the MultiCam design or the Desert Camouflage Uniform, are the best options they’ve been given so far.

For his part, Pelak would like to see less money spent designing uniforms and more money spent on better quality field equipment, such as more durable boots and lighter backpacks.

“It took 12 years to develop body armor for women,” he said. ‘I thought that was a joke when they announced body armor for women at the end of both wars and that’s absolutely needed. Not a lower budget version of a backpack you can’t even jump out of an airplane with.”

Unfortunately, Gallagher said, “What’s best for soldiers in the field is usually not a primary decision-maker. This is all about defense industry contracts, and just one example of the labyrinth that is that messy, nepotistic world.”

The Army, however, downplays the conspiracy theory. “It’s not like someone pulled the UCP out of their posterior and said let’s use it,” said the unnamed Army source. “They actually did a test and it performed pretty well, but as you can imagine, anything that’s universal doesn’t work that well in all situations.”

The Army source’s claim that the UCP tested well is contradicted by two different studiesconducted by Natick showing that the MultiCam outperformed the UCP in various environments and the statements made by Natick scientists accusing the military of selecting the UCP before the full testing on it was complete.

The same source also insists the fuss over wasted money is overblown. “It’s like if you spent $5 billion on Hanes t-shirts and then 5 years later decided you should have bought Under Armor,” he said. “It’s not like you wasted money on those shirts because you got use out of them. We used those uniforms for their lifespan.”

The criticism made by many soldiers and Army watchdogs is that clothing that costs $5 billion dollars and is made for Soldiers going into combat ought to be of higher quality and last longer than a Hanes t-shirt. Despite the Army’s initial claims about fielding a universal uniform of the future, the UCPs nine-year lifespan is less than half the length of its considerably less expensive predecessor, the BDU uniform, which lasted for two decades. What’s more, the UCP wasn’t even worn by soldiers in Afghanistan during the last four years of its duration.

Over the past decade the Army has utilized four different uniforms, with each representing a considerable expenditure and investment of time and resources that could have been applied to other commonly cited needs, like upgrades to field equipment and improvements to tactical vehicles.
*
Whether the current quest for the consummate camouflage will prove time and money well spent or yet another waste remains to be seen. In the meantime, Pelak said, “We’re stuck with a uniform we can’t wear in the field.”*

...........


The Army is changing clothes.

Over the next year, America’s largest fighting force is swapping its camouflage pattern. The move is a quiet admission that the last uniform — a pixelated design that debuted in 2004 at a cost of $5 billion — was a colossal mistake.


*Soldiers have roundly criticized the gray-green uniform for standing out almost everywhere it’s been worn. Industry insiders have called the financial mess surrounding the pattern a “fiasco.”*

As Army researchers work furiously on a newer, better camouflage, it’s natural to ask what went wrong and how they’ll avoid the same missteps this time around. In a candid interview with The Daily, several of those researchers said Army brass interfered in the selection process during the last round, letting looks and politics get in the way of science.

“It got into political hands before the soldiers ever got the uniforms,” said Cheryl Stewardson, a textile technologist at the Army research center in Natick, Mass., where most of the armed forces camouflage patterns are made.

The researchers say that science is carrying the day this time, as they run four patterns through a rigorous battery of tests. The goal is to give soldiers different patterns suitable for different environments, plus a single neutral pattern — matching the whole family — to be used on more expensive body armor and other gear. The selection will involve hundreds of computer trials as well on-the-ground testing at half a dozen locations around the world.

But until the new pattern is put in the field — a move that’s still a year or more away — soldiers in Afghanistan have been given a temporary fix: a greenish, blended replacement called MultiCam. The changeover came only after several non-commissioned officers complained to late Pennsylvania Rep. John Murtha, and he took up the cause in 2009. Outside of Afghanistan, the rest of the Army is still stuck with the gray Universal Camouflage Pattern, or UCP. And some soldiers truly hate it.

*“Essentially, the Army designed a universal uniform that universally failed in every environment,” said an Army specialist *who served two tours in Iraq, wearing UCP in Baghdad and the deserts outside Basra. *“The only time I have ever seen it work well was in a gravel pit.” * [The Daily via the Stars & Stripes]

You can read more at the link but it has been known for a long time that the Army screwed up their selection of a new universal uniform by selecting the ACU. I remember getting issued the ACU at Ft. Lewis, Washington and while out in the field it was clear that the ACU did not blend into a woodland environment, which left everyone thinking who thought this would be a good idea? Well The Daily article does provide a name and why he chose the ACU:

For a decision that could ultimately affect more than a million soldiers in the Army, reserves and National Guard, the sudden shift from Program Executive Office Soldier was a head-scratcher. The consensus among the researchers was the Army brass had watched the Marine Corps don their new uniforms and caught a case of pixilated camouflage envy.

“It was trendy,” Stewardson said. “If it’s good enough for the Marines, why shouldn’t the Army have that same cool new look?”

The brigadier general ultimately responsible for the decision, James Moran, who retired from the Army after leaving Program Executive Office Soldier, has not responded to messages seeking comment.

To be fair I don’t think you can blame this on one guy; a decision this important that impacts the entire force would have to have approval from senior leaders in the Army. There is no way BG Moran was solely responsible for this decision.

Despite trying to copy the Marines the ACU comes no where close to being as effective as the MARPAT. In an urban environment the ACU is actually pretty good and in the desert it is not too bad, but the MARPAT is better in my opinion. Also the ACU falls apart when deployed and the velcro pockets were a disasterous idea. This all just makes me wonder why someone in Congress doesn’t investigate such a failed acquisition decision especially when we now know that $5 billion was wasted?

The decision to use this uniform was as much as a head scratcher back then as the decision to wear the black beret. I always figured that once the people responsible for the decisions were long retired that common sense would eventually prevail. It took 8-10 years and sure enough common sense did prevail on both issues. Here is another prediction for everyone, after 8-10 years the latest dress uniform for the Army that makes us look like shopping mall security guards will change as well.

- See more at: US Army Wasted $5 Billion With Failed Army Combat Uniform | ROK Drop​

............................

*Army Drops Universal Camouflage After Spending Billions*
By SYDNEY J. FREEDBERG JR. on June 25, 2012 at 5:00 PM





*After eight years and billions of dollars, the Army has given up on an ambitious effort to clothe its soldiers in a “universal camouflage pattern.” The grey uniform, widely issued and widely loathed, was supposed to blend in equally well in all environments, from desert sand to green forest to city streets. It just didn’t.* Now the Army’s going back to the old, obvious approach of having different designs for different places.

“It definitely makes a difference in Afghanistan, because Afghanistan is primarily brown, and there’s no brown in the universal pattern,” said one Army officer who’s deployed wearing the universal camouflage, also called the Advanced Combat Uniform (ACU). Under pressure from unhappy soldiers and the late Rep. John Murtha*, the Army had already given up on the universal pattern for troops in Afghanistan, who now wear a “multi-cam” design better suited to the terrain.*

Soldiers elsewhere around the world, though, still have to make do with the universal-pattern ACU — or work around it by finding unofficial sources of uniforms. “The ACU does fine in the urban environment,” the officer said, where its grey shades blend in with concrete (see the picture). But elsewhere, he went on, “guys use the old woodland pattern” — a discontinued US uniform — “when they’re out in Thailand or the Philippines…. or they’ll trade their ACUs out with the locals.”

An article yesterday in the website _The Daily_ called the universal camouflage a “$5 billion fiasco,” but a spokesman for the Army’s Soldier Systems Center in Natick, Mass. defended the design, given what it had attempted to achieve. “I wouldn’t characterize it as a ‘fiasco,’” David Acetta told Breaking Defense. “The UCP did have fairly good results in a number of different environments… It’s not the best for all, but it is effective to a different degree in all different climates, environments, day and night light levels.” But that jack-of-all-trades approach didn’t pan out in practice. As the Army evaluates replacements for the universal pattern, a process that should produce recommendations sometime this fall, Acetta said, “we’re looking at a family of patterns rather than just one pattern for all the uniforms.”

So the problem isn’t that the Army tried to do something simple and messed it up. It’s that the Army tried something impossibly difficult. Short of some kind of sci-fi cloaking device or invisibility field a la _Predator_ or _Star Trek_ — which some people are actually working on— there’s no way to come up with a single color scheme or camo pattern that blends in equally well in all environments. “In this case the desire for standardization seems to have transcended common sense,” said Loren Thompson, a defense industry consultant and analyst who often writes for Breaking Defense. “It’s obvious that a pattern working well in a jungle would not work well in most deserts.”

But when the Universal Camouflage Pattern was developed in 2003-2004, the Army was at a high point of high-tech hubris, after steamrollering the Taliban and Saddam Hussein but before realizing it was enmired in counterinsurgency. Another, far more costly Army product of the same period was the Future Combat System, which was supposed to develop a universal family of lightweight armored vehicles equally suitable for all scenarios, an ambitious and ultimately unreachable goal. The Army spent almost $20 billion on FCS before then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates canceled it in 2009, and the only tangible product was a small remote-controlled robot; at least the universal camo project produced something people could wear.

Today, by contrast, the Army is focusing its investments on more modest programs tailored to specific problems, like a more heavily armored Ground Combat Vehicle to carry infantry into urban battle zones or specific camouflage patterns for different environments. That approach still hardly guarantees the chronically troubled military acquisition system will produce quality, affordable results, but it at least sets a bar that is possible to reach.
.................

In short REPLACED.





> This is not Kashmir, and Kashmir is not like this.



I know... wearing ACU in Kashmir is like a bulleyes for the militants...



> This was from an exercise with Russian Army and the camo isn't being issued, but
> just one of the many types of new camo that is being "trialed out" in combat
> exercises by the Paras.
> 
> I think I already showed you another camo of Para -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you have seem Indian SFs use 2 distinct types of new camo. One is UCP/ACP
> type digital camo, the other is similar to MultiCam and/or MARPAT, ideal for jungle
> ops where is a lot of trees & stuff. There are likely to be more types of uniforms
> under trials in different locations & environment.
> 
> Our COBRAs have already adopted MARPAT and it seems it is showing results in
> their ops against Naxals deep in the jungles.



lol okay..





> Haha, very funny. I think it would be nice if you would...
> 
> 1) Don't draw conclusions while the camos are still be trialed and none of the new
> types are in active circulation as yet. We don't know what camo will make it to the
> final orders either.
> 
> 2) Don't take Indian SFs for stupids, nor take American forces' Afghan experience
> as the deciding factor for all SFs & militaries in the world, in all types of situations
> and environments, some of which are distinctly different from Afghan.



 ... do you even know what the universal camo was meant for?


----------



## Gessler

^^ @DESERT FIGHTER

You keep repeating the US experience blah blah blah blah.

I have already told that -

> Kashmir is different from Afghanistan & Indian AOs are different from US AOs.

> UCP is not being issued as standard, but merely being given to certain units to
test it's effectiveness in combat situations.

> UCP is only one of the many different new camos being tested.

> No one knows which camo will finally make it to the standard gear.

But remember, if Indian SFs do select UCP after the trial period is over, it will be
for a reason, and, it's not likely all SFs or all units of each SF organization wear the
same uniform. Most of the time the uniform could be operation or Area-specific.


----------



## akand bharat

Gessler said:


> ^^ @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> You keep repeating the US experience blah blah blah blah.
> 
> I have already told that -
> 
> > Kashmir is different from Afghanistan & Indian AOs are different from US AOs.
> 
> > UCP is not being issued as standard, but merely being given to certain units to
> test it's effectiveness in combat situations.
> 
> > UCP is only one of the many different new camos being tested.
> 
> > No one knows which camo will finally make it to the standard gear.
> 
> But remember, if Indian SFs do select UCP after the trial period is over, it will be
> for a reason, and, it's not likely all SFs or all units of each SF organization wear the
> same uniform. Most of the time the uniform could be operation or Area-specific.


Were was US experience in Vietnam fishers and villagers kicked butts of One of worlds best professional army


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

akand bharat said:


> Were was US experience in Vietnam fishers and villagers kicked butts of One of worlds best professional army



Chest thumping aside.. do you know how many viets were killed in tht conflict?viets were also supported by russkies n chinese... other advanges like terrain etc cant be counted out aswell... No country today can occupy other country forever...


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Water Car Engineer

Offtopic and all, but it doesnt take a genius to realize the new camo is way better.











then this











This camo doesnt suit Indian scenario in Thar or Kashmir.

The new camo consistently blends better than the old ones. Just look at all the new pics coming out.

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## Rockshot

GARUD

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## hkdas

Robotic Critters For Indian Air Force Commandos - AA Me, IN

*The Indian Air Force [IAF] to test the use of highly portable reconnaissance robots for its Special Forces [SF].*
The IAF recently issued a Request For Proposal [RFP] seeking to acquire surveillance robots, which they have additionally/optionally​identified as _Recon Scout XT®_. The RFP, released on IAF's behalf, by the Garud Regimental Training Centre [GRTC], seeks to acquire, initially, 2 such robots & 1 control console.

The relatively recently raised Garud Commando Force operates with the primary mandate of undertaking exfiltration operations of pilots, downed behind enemy lines. Through the course of its existence, its been progressively kitting itself with better hardware. Starting off with the OFB-made INSAS, they transitioned to the Soviet-origin Kalashnikov assault rifles, & have now standardised themselves on the Israeli TAR21 [or its license-manufactured, OFB variant, the Zittara], the firearm of choice of all well-funded SF outfits in the country. The 2 robots it seeks to purchase might suggest that they would like to evaluate its usage & decide how best to incorporate it into their operational methodology.

Given that they've actually named the kind of system they're eyeing by its trade name, it might have an upper hand in this particular contract. It needs to be a Titanium-encased, low noise, hand-hurled device, that can be conveniently carried in an oversized pocket, weighing no more than 600 grams. This video, below, shows how the Recon Scout XT operates. Nifty device to have in your pocket when you're out saving valuable lives.

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## Unknowncommando



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nice camo ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately... doesnt do its job... am i right @Abingdonboy
> 
> P.S: Whats a SF guy doing in streets of IOK>?




Marcos are deployed in Srinagar and they operate 5-10 kms around Wular lake.The area consists of dense forests on one side like showed in some pics and urban theatre on the other like showed in the other pic.


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

http://www.***************/pictures/data/3094/030.jpg


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Gessler

Water Car Engineer said:


>



Nice blending.


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## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> Nice blending.


Very true- this jungle MARPAT design is excellent for the conditions they're working in. All 3 military SOFs should adopt this pattern as their standard-issue jungle camo.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

^^^ the arrow gun used extensively by Marcos in the 90s in Kashmir and other areas...used to be their favourite specially the one with cynide tip arrows.


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## bloo

^^^ do u mean a crossbow?


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## me_itsme

bloo said:


> ^^^ do u mean a crossbow?



Yup. Tactical cross bow.


----------



## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> Very true- this jungle MARPAT design is excellent for the conditions they're working in. All 3 military SOFs should adopt this pattern as their standard-issue jungle camo.



Infact I think IA should adopt different versions of MARPAT as the standard uniform.

BTW dude have you any images of INSAS 1B1 (all-black versions) with UBGL
and optic sights?

I heard such configuration was used in the latest military exercise with China.











INSAS with grenade launcher attachment looks fantastic!

Thanks to Kunal Biswas for 2nd pic.

Guys, also look at this picture -

New version of INSAS-LMG light machine gun with cheek rest. INSAS 1B1
in background, both guns have optic attachments.






Also note the uniform of the personnel in the background - digital camo.

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## Unknowncommando



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## RPK



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## India_rocks

Amazing pictures. 

JAI HIND!


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## me_itsme

RPK said:


>




Any more details on this Raid will be very much appreciated. I will thank all your posts (who ever gives the details)


----------



## RPK

me_itsme said:


> Any more details on this Raid will be very much appreciated. I will thank all your posts (who ever gives the details)



Bharat Rakshak :: Land Forces Site - Lt Col Bhawani Singh

The Hindu : Other States News : Maharaja of Jaipur Bhawani Singh dead

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## me_itsme

RPK said:


> Bharat Rakshak :: Land Forces Site - Lt Col Bhawani Singh
> 
> The Hindu : Other States News : Maharaja of Jaipur Bhawani Singh dead



Thank You very much. But I was looking for more details from a military or tactics point of view. The two links are more focused on the commander rather than the mission itself. But thanks anyways much appreciated.


----------



## DARIUS

As far as I know that the Chachro town referred to in the article which our soldiers had laid their lives to seize had been ceded to Pak by Nehru a a goodwill gesture!!!!


----------



## me_itsme

DARIUS said:


> As far as I know that the Chachro town referred to in the article which our soldiers had laid their lives to seize had been ceded to Pak by Nehru a a goodwill gesture!!!!



It was a Raid not to capture or hold territory as far as i know.


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## RPK



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS

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## bloo

* ISDEF2013: Speed Up Your Navy Diver with OPCON Marine's BLACKACE *


BLACK ACE is a diver propulsion transporter (DPT) from OPCON Marine PTE Ltd. from Singapore. The producer quotes that the BLACK ACE is the new generation of underwater transporter with a high trust-to-weight ratio that should increase the diver speed and performance. The system is made of lightweight composite materials that should also reduce the detection signature. It can speed up a diver up to 5 knots with a system weight of 15 kg. The system can be packed and transported in a normal back pack. The controller for the system is designed to be mounted on the rifle’s rail, so the diver is always ready to fight. All system components can be changed under water, also the batteries. At cruising speed the batteries are good for an operation of up to 60 min., a recharge takes max. 90 min. It can be used up to a depth of 100 m. *Right now it is in trials with the Special Forces of Singapore and the Indian Navy.*
Black ACE comes in two versions, a leg mount/rebreather configuration (depth 40 m/15 kg/60 min.) and a scuba tank mounted configuration (100 m).
* Andre Forkert*





MILITARY TECHNOLOGY: ISDEF2013: Speed Up Your Navy Diver with OPCON Marine's BLACKACE

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Indischer

Water Car Engineer said:


>


Who're these Jocks?? They seem to have cleaned up DEVGRU's lockers(except their guns)


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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> Who're these Jocks?? They seem to have cleaned up DEVGRU's lockers(except their guns)


Who do you think? They're MARCOs of course!


And yeah, the only thing that I have issue with is the use of the AK, the TAR-21 is their standard-issue AR now. Must be specific reasons why they didn't use them in this photo-op.



Water Car Engineer said:


>


Where'd you get these AESOME pics from bro??

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> Who do you think? They're MARCOs of course!
> 
> 
> And yeah, the only thing that I have issue with is the use of the AK, the TAR-21 is their standard-issue AR now. Must be specific reasons why they didn't use them in this photo-op.
> 
> 
> Where'd you get these AESOME pics from bro??



its from dis

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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> its from dis


Yeah, I just saw this! Thanks anyway bro


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## Water Car Engineer



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## bloo

bloo said:


> * ISDEF2013: Speed Up Your Navy Diver with OPCON Marine's BLACKACE *
> 
> 
> BLACK ACE is a diver propulsion transporter (DPT) from OPCON Marine PTE Ltd. from Singapore. The producer quotes that the BLACK ACE is the new generation of underwater transporter with a high trust-to-weight ratio that should increase the diver speed and performance. The system is made of lightweight composite materials that should also reduce the detection signature. It can speed up a diver up to 5 knots with a system weight of 15 kg. The system can be packed and transported in a normal back pack. The controller for the system is designed to be mounted on the rifle’s rail, so the diver is always ready to fight. All system components can be changed under water, also the batteries. At cruising speed the batteries are good for an operation of up to 60 min., a recharge takes max. 90 min. It can be used up to a depth of 100 m. *Right now it is in trials with the Special Forces of Singapore and the Indian Navy.*
> Black ACE comes in two versions, a leg mount/rebreather configuration (depth 40 m/15 kg/60 min.) and a scuba tank mounted configuration (100 m).
> * Andre Forkert*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY TECHNOLOGY: ISDEF2013: Speed Up Your Navy Diver with OPCON Marine's BLACKACE


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## Koovie

Water Car Engineer said:


>




Nice find! Our boys look worldclass and are worlds apart from what they had in 2008


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## me_itsme

Koovie said:


> Nice find! Our boys look worldclass and are worlds apart from what they had in 2008



Not really. I dont see any difference other than the new camo & pads [weapon also in some instance] But other than that nothing has changed, not so world class BPJ, not so world class helmets and the goggles what they wearing does not seem ballistic. But its safe to say we are in the right direction but we have a long way to go.


----------



## Dandpatta

me_itsme said:


> Not really. I dont see any difference other than the new camo & pads [weapon also in some instance] But other than that nothing has changed, not so world class BPJ, not so world class helmets and the goggles what they wearing does not seem ballistic. But its safe to say we are in the right direction but we have a long way to go.



What's wrong with the helmets?


----------



## me_itsme

Dandpatta said:


> What's wrong with the helmets?



Looks big, heavy, hinders sight. Most of the SOFs all over have opted for FAST helmets which is lighter, provides better sight and multiple mods can be attached. Even Pak SF have FAST helmets. I dunno when ppl will wake up and get our SFs the latest stuff.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


>



Is it me or is tht helmet really big?

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## Dandpatta

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Is it me or is tht helmet really big?


It could be that he wore the big size helmet (wrong size helmet for his head). Also, it looks bulky because of the cover that gives more surface area .


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## bloo

An awesome reportage on the Para SF.


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## Gessler

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Is it me or is tht helmet really big?



The helmet in the background is normal - this one is enlarged. Either it contains
additional comm equipment inside or the commando didn't find his original helmet.


----------



## Abingdonboy

me_itsme said:


> Looks big, heavy, hinders sight. Most of the SOFs all over have opted for FAST helmets which is lighter, provides better sight and multiple mods can be attached. Even Pak SF have FAST helmets. I dunno when ppl will wake up and get our SFs the latest stuff.





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Is it me or is tht helmet really big?





Dandpatta said:


> It could be that he wore the big size helmet (wrong size helmet for his head). Also, it looks bulky because of the cover that gives more surface area .


This helmet is just like the IDF wear (even their SOFs) but if you watch later in the video you see them wearing the more typical Western/US PASGT helmets (see below). Either way all 3 Indian SOFs are set to get a complete overhaul in their equipment within the next 3-4 years which will include new helmets so let's wait and see.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> This helmet is just like the IDF wear (even their SOFs) but if you watch later in the video you see them wearing the more typical Western/US PASGT helmets (see below). Either way all 3 Indian SOFs are set to get a complete overhaul in their equipment within the next 3-4 years which will include new helmets so let's wait and see.
> View attachment 12043




Dude quit pushing your nonsense.. the tin bucket helmet u are talking abt isnt israeli .. also this one looks like a newly acquired PASGT helmet... probably the operator is kinda thin? making the helmet look big?

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## Chronos

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude quit pushing your nonsense.. the tin bucket helmet u are talking abt isnt israeli .. also this one looks like a newly acquired PASGT helmet... probably the operator is kinda thin? making the helmet look big?



Lot of Indian soldiers are thin though


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Ravi Nair said:


> Lot of Indian soldiers are thin though



lol.. comeon dude... the shape of the helmet look like a PASGT ... but probably he has a thin face?


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude quit pushing your nonsense.. the tin bucket helmet u are talking abt isnt israeli .. also this one looks like a newly acquired PASGT helmet... probably the operator is kinda thin? making the helmet look big?


You're so tiresome sometimes buddy. What tin helmet???!!!


Stop visiting this thread bro. You add nothing. All you seem to do is troll and try to make out Paksitani SFs are better.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> You're so tiresome sometimes buddy. What tin helmet???!!!



The ones u n coldhearted quoted as israeli helmet remember?

Does the shape of this helmet look like it?



> Stop visiting this thread bro. You add nothing. All you seem to do is troll and try to make out Paksitani SFs are better.



Dumbass where did i talk abt SSG?

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## Dandpatta

Abingdonboy said:


> *This helmet is just like the IDF wear* (even their SOFs) but if you watch later in the video you see them wearing the more typical Western/US PASGT helmets (see below). Either way all 3 Indian SOFs are set to get a complete overhaul in their equipment within the next 3-4 years which will include new helmets so let's wait and see.
> View attachment 12043



Sorry Abingdonboy, no, this helmet (in question is CERTAINLY NOT what the IDF wear). IDF helmets are almost semi-circular and no where near to what is portrayed in the picture. 

I am certain that this is a PASGT (or its variant) type of helmet . It has a outer fabric cover and that's why its real shape is not in prominence but one can take a cue from the helmet worn by the soldier in the background. But I am 101% certain, NOT , ABSOLUTELY NOT an IDF helmet .


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## Resurrection5782

Beautiful but Iranian green hats are much more adroit.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dandpatta said:


> Sorry Abingdonboy, no, this helmet (in question is CERTAINLY NOT what the IDF wear). IDF helmets are almost semi-circular and no where near to what is portrayed in the picture.
> 
> I am certain that this is a PASGT (or its variant) type of helmet . It has a outer fabric cover and that's why its real shape is not in prominence but one can take a cue from the helmet worn by the soldier in the background. But I am 101% certain, NOT , ABSOLUTELY NOT an IDF helmet .



israeli helmet.. OR-201:

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## Chronos

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> israeli helmet.. OR-201:
> 
> View attachment 12069



Thanks for the pic

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## Dandpatta

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> israeli helmet.. OR-201:
> 
> View attachment 12069



Thanks Desert Fighter ! You beat me to it, I was just trying to google a pic to identify IDF helmet. Cheers !

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## Varunastra

Water Car Engineer said:


>



shouldn't their face be covered always?

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## bloo

Water Car Engineer said:


>



I feel like these are guys are SPB.....are they?


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## hkdas

bloo said:


> I feel like these are guys are SPB.....are they?



no, in this video it clearly say this is marcos..


>


----------



## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


>


Go give those Naxal scum hell boys.


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## Dandpatta

The last and the second last picture of the COBRA gives an "a-la-vietnam" photography feel to it


----------



## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## DESERT FIGHTER

I have a question.. does india produce AK clones? some info would be appreciated.


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## gslv mk3

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I have a question.. does india produce AK clones? some info would be appreciated.


Its called AK 7 I think.


----------



## thesolar65

*Just out of curiosity, this is my question. How many of the today's best special forces with all those gears and weapons would have captured Alexander/Akbar/Chengiz Khan/Ashoka the Great or any equivalent Emperors of those times?*

@Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer @bloo @gslv mk3 @Dash


----------



## Abingdonboy

[qu ote="thesolar65, post: 5096075, member: 140691"]*Just out of curiosity, this is my question. How many of the today's best special forces with all those gears and weapons would have captured Alexander/Akbar/Chengiz Khan/Ashoka the Great or any equivalent Emperors of those times?*

@Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer @bloo @gslv mk3 @Dash[/quote]
Bro, the average infantry squad in one of the modern armies of today could quite easily capture/kill any of the above. The amount of firepower they carry (automatic rifles, MMGs, RLs, grenade launchers etc) is more than enough to overwhelm the personal protection any of the above would have had.

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## Abingdonboy



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


>



WTF...

Also no vests?

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> WTF...
> 
> Also no vests?


I'm guessing a tribal. And you won't find many police/military units wearing bullet proof jackets in the areas where these guys operate- jungles and the like. They need to be lightweight and agile. However they wear webbing/tactical vests to hold their ammo, supplies, med-packs, grenades etc

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## Water Car Engineer

@Abingdonboy

Who are these guys?

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## cloud_9

Abingdonboy said:


>


WTH! Is the Tribal affairs ministry doing these people are in really bad shape....no wonders they join the maoist's 

Does the CRPF headquarters know that these guys are posting there pictures on the Internet.

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Who are these guys?


They're clearly not military. 

So a CAPF but I'm torn between BSF and CRPF. Must be a QRT/SRT of one of them.

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## Abingdonboy

cloud_9 said:


> WTH! Is the Tribal affairs ministry doing these people are in really bad shape....no wonders they join the maoist's
> 
> Does the CRPF headquarters know that these guys are posting there pictures on the Internet.


Whoa- I didn't even notice the woman's condition. 

I highly doubt the CRPF HQ has any idea about these pics being out there in the public domain. 

Posing with such locals should be a big no-no.

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## Thirdfront

Seems like cobra guys are flooding internet with cowboy-ish pics. Only hiss with no diss. IMHO, discretion is one of the key qualities of any SF and they don't seem to have any.
PS: Post not intended to lighten the service they are doing to the people but their command and control doesn't seem to be mature....


----------



## Abingdonboy

Thirdfront said:


> Seems like cobra guys are flooding internet with cowboy-ish pics. Only hiss with no diss. IMHO, discretion is one of the key qualities of any SF and they don't seem to have any.
> PS: Post not intended to lighten the service they are doing to the people but their command and control doesn't seem to be mature....


They aren't even remotely SFs.



Water Car Engineer said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Who are these guys?


Bro- where did you get these pics btw?


----------



## Omega007

Man,I just love the MARPAT camo being used by the CRPF COBRAs,they mix very well with the surroundings.I just wish Army takes a look and standarise on their customised version of woodland and desert/arid pattern MARPAT.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro- where did you get these pics btw?




Someone posted them in another site. Seems like a screen shot maybe.

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> Someone posted them in another site. Seems like a screen shot maybe.


Yes I thought the first one especially looked like a screenshot- what site was it mate?


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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Yes I thought the first one especially looked like a screenshot- what site was it mate?



Indian Armed Forces - Page 588

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> *Whoa- I didn't even notice the woman's condition. *
> 
> I highly doubt the CRPF HQ has any idea about these pics being out there in the public domain.
> 
> Posing with such locals should be a big no-no.



bro, in that tribal areas the old women's condition are like this... they are soo poor and their living conditions are pathetic.


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> [
> bro already posted





Abingdonboy said:


> Whoa- I didn't even notice the woman's condition.
> 
> I highly doubt the CRPF HQ has any idea about these pics being out there in the public domain.
> 
> Posing with such locals should be a big no-no.


bro the guy who is posting these pics on his page is COBRA commando himself.and few more cobras are there who usually comment on his posts. i have seen their conversation.U can check their talks on recent posts few days back.


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Unknowncommando said:


> bro the guy who is posting these pics on his page is COBRA commando himself.and few more cobras are there who usually comment on his posts. i have seen their conversation.U can check their talks on recent posts few days back.


 
Whatever they are, they are hardly SF. So why post their junk here?


----------



## Unknowncommando

SPG

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> bro the guy who is posting these pics on his page is COBRA commando himself.and few more cobras are there who usually comment on his posts. i have seen their conversation.U can check their talks on recent posts few days back.


Mate, could you provide the link?


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Mate, could you provide the link?


I dnt remember bro. coz too many pics posted by him in recent days.And this info was in his reply to someone who commented on his post.But i will definately provide a link if i get. but it will take time.

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## Unknowncommando

Capt.Popeye said:


> Whatever they are, they are hardly SF. So why post their junk here?


ok then if u dnt wanna see just ignore it. thank u


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> They're clearly not military.
> 
> So a CAPF but I'm torn between BSF and CRPF. Must be a QRT/SRT of one of them.


bro jst look at their faces . Dnt they look north estern to u ?


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Unknowncommando said:


> ok then if u dnt wanna see just ignore it. thank u


 
What cr@p. They are not even officially considered to be SF. Just some self-appointed (or fanboy-appointed) SFs who are seeking some undeserved glory via FB pages. With Bollywood-esque posed shots.

Even the SFF or Ladakh Scouts or _"Thud/Thud"_ Gorkhas are more deserving of SF labels than these wannabes. Who seem to be gathering some "groupies" like Yo Yo Honey Singh.
But have you seen any of the "genuine SF guys" making FB pages? Only the _Policias _can do that with their lax discipline.


----------



## Unknowncommando

Capt.Popeye said:


> What cr@p. They are not even officially considered to be SF. Just some self-appointed (or fanboy-appointed) SFs who are seeking some undeserved glory via FB pages. With Bollywood-esque posed shots.
> 
> Even the SFF or Ladakh Scouts or _"Thud/Thud"_ Gorkhas are more deserving of SF labels than these wannabes. Who seem to be gathering some "groupies" like Yo Yo Honey Singh.
> But have you seen any of the "genuine SF guys" making FB pages? Only the _Policias _can do that with their lax discipline.


ok bro whatever makes u happy.  thank u


----------



## haman10

VZ-58 of indian SF :


----------



## Abingdonboy

haman10 said:


> VZ-58 of indian SF :


I know the PARA (SF) used to use the AK and VZ-58 quite a lot particularly in JK and CI ops but to a lesser extent these days now they have the Tavor. Nowadays SF units in JK use a mix of Tavors, M4s and mini-Uzis. I've seen SFs and RR add sights to their AK-family rifles but never have I seen an AK-family rifle in Indian service this modded (sights, foregrip, polymor folding butt, p-rail etc). I've seen IN MARCOs with foregrips on their AK-family rifles but, again, not this modded. 

I highly doubt this rifle belongs to any Indian unit- would love to be proven wrong. Any source sir?



Unknowncommando said:


> bro jst look at their faces . Dnt they look north estern to u ?


A few of them (1-2) do bro but then CAPFs are "all-India" forces- especially their specialist units (which I'm certain these guys belong to) so this is nothing special in itself.


----------



## haman10

Abingdonboy said:


> Any source sir?



dear my source was an indian forum .....

its against the laws to post the link .....

sorry mate ! but u can ask indian members for it @Ayush @kurup

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## Abingdonboy

haman10 said:


> dear my source was an indian forum .....
> 
> its against the laws to post the link .....
> 
> sorry mate ! but u can ask indian members for it @Ayush @kurup


Was it *** or BR sir?

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## haman10

Abingdonboy said:


> Was it *** or BR sir?



***

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## Indischer

@Capt.Popeye What exactly is the SFF doing these days? Some say they're the best Special Forces in India. There's precious little about them on the net. Can you throw any light on them Sir?


----------



## Mike_Brando

Abingdonboy said:


> Was it *** or BR sir?


well mate i think it's *** as Kunal sir is known to post these exclusive pictures in the special forces section of that forum(btw i am also a senior member there)

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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> @Capt.Popeye What exactly is the SFF doing these days? Some say they're the best Special Forces in India. There's precious little about them on the net. Can you throw any light on them Sir?


They aren't "true blue" SFs. And SFF act as an arm of RAW- nuff said.



haman10 said:


> dear my source was an indian forum .....
> its against the laws to post the link .....
> sorry mate ! but u can ask indian members for it @Ayush @kurup





Mike_Brando said:


> well mate i think it's *** as Kunal sir is known to post these exclusive pictures in the special forces section of that forum(btw i am also a senior member there)


Thanks very much guys!

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## Indischer

Abingdonboy said:


> They aren't "true blue" SFs. And SFF act as an arm of RAW- nuff said.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks very much guys!



But are they still filled with ethnic Tibetans as was the case before?


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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> But are they still filled with ethnic Tibetans as was the case before?


I have heard it is more mixed than it was historically but I don't know for sure. I know that Special Group (SG) which is part of the SFF is made up of 100% Indian nationals and not Tibetans.

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## Indischer

Abingdonboy said:


> I have heard it is more mixed than it was historically but I don't know for sure. I know that Special Group (SG) which is part of the SFF is made up of 100% Indian nationals and not Tibetans.



They're Indian Nationals, but are their ethnicities varied or homogenous? Never heard of any recruitment drive for SFF so far!


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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> They're Indian Nationals, but are their ethnicities varied or homogenous? Never heard of any recruitment drive for SFF so far!


The recruitment isn't advertised. And like I said- I believe the SFF has become more homogenous these days.


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## Indischer

Abingdonboy said:


> The recruitment isn't advertised. And like I said- I believe the SFF has become more homogenous these days.



You mean heterogenous, right? Are they still known as Establishment 22 in Army circles? And since they report to RAW now, are they the ones active in places like Afghanistan? But the Indian embassy in Afghanistan isn't guarded by them. So just what are they up to these days is a real mystery.


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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> You mean heterogenous, right? Are they still known as Establishment 22 in Army circles? And since they report to RAW now, are they the ones active in places like Afghanistan? But the Indian embassy in Afghanistan isn't guarded by them. So just what are they up to these days is a real mystery.


Yes, sorry- heterogenous (it's been a long, draining and cr@ppy day). 

I'm not sure if they're still called Establishment 22 or not within internal circles- this is closely guarded information. 

SFF are operators for RAW- they don't provide perimeter security for Indian embassies (that is the task of certain CAPFs) but naturally do operate from them when the need arises. When one hears of terrorists being picked up "by India" in Nepal or BD or wherever it may be it would be safe to assume it is the work of SFF. One only has to look at what little is known of their training syllabus to understand what their uses are for an organisation like RAW. It may be easier to use an analogy of the CIA and their SAD. 

If it is a mystery- I guess they're doing their jobs right .

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## Capt.Popeye

Indischer said:


> You mean heterogenous, right? Are they still known as Establishment 22 in Army circles? And since they report to RAW now, are they the ones active in places like Afghanistan? But the Indian embassy in Afghanistan isn't guarded by them. So just what are they up to these days is a real mystery.


 
The guys in Afghanistan are the ITBP, they are under the MHA not MoD. SFF will always remain in the shadows.



Indischer said:


> @Capt.Popeye What exactly is the SFF doing these days? Some say they're the best Special Forces in India. There's precious little about them on the net. Can you throw any light on them Sir?


 
Oh those guys. No light on them 
They are in the shadows, as they are meant to be.

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## Indischer

Capt.Popeye said:


> The guys in Afghanistan are the ITBP, they are under the MHA not MoD. SFF will always remain in the shadows.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh those guys. No light on them
> They are in the shadows, as they are meant to be.



Since when did India get good at keeping secrets? But I guess India was _always_ secretive about it's Defence forces. Only now are we getting some info and pics on a regular basis.


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## Capt.Popeye

Indischer said:


> Since when did India get good at keeping secrets? But I guess India was _always_ secretive about it's Defence forces. Only now are we getting some info and pics on a regular basis.


 
Oh; Life does have zome zurprises efter all........

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## Indischer

@Abingdonboy @Capt.Popeye 
Probably another dumb question...but here goes;
In light of how Major Shabeg Singh joined hands with Khalistani separatists and ended up training their forces, what kind of measures has India put in place to ensure that these highly trained Special Forces do not enter/participate in anti-national ventures post retirement? Does anyone keep tabs on these guys after they're out of the Fauj?

Pardon my questioning if it hurt anyone.


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## Capt.Popeye

Indischer said:


> @Abingdonboy @Capt.Popeye
> Probably another dumb question...but here goes;
> In light of how Major Shabeg Singh joined hands with Khalistani separatists and ended up training their forces, what kind of measures has India put in place to ensure that these highly trained Special Forces do not enter/participate in anti-national ventures post retirement? Does anyone keep tabs on these guys after they're out of the Fauj?
> 
> Pardon my questioning if it hurt anyone.


 
See any man is free to do anything out of uniform. Only in that time there was little monitoring. Now, much more if somebody has done something sensitive earlier in service. So there is no prevention as such (no need to really) but if something is amiss, it gets red-flagged much faster.

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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> @Abingdonboy @Capt.Popeye
> Probably another dumb question...but here goes;
> In light of how Major Shabeg Singh joined hands with Khalistani separatists and ended up training their forces, what kind of measures has India put in place to ensure that these highly trained Special Forces do not enter/participate in anti-national ventures post retirement? Does anyone keep tabs on these guys after they're out of the Fauj?
> 
> Pardon my questioning if it hurt anyone.


 @Capt.Popeye has said pretty much all there is to say. But I will say that even ex-SF operators in the West get themselves involved in some pretty shady activities.


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## Indischer

Capt.Popeye said:


> See any man is free to do anything out of uniform. Only in that time there was little monitoring. Now, much more if somebody has done something sensitive earlier in service. So there is no prevention as such (no need to really) but if something is amiss, it gets red-flagged much faster.



I asked it because I remember reading somewhere that CRPF was concerned about the increasing sophistication of Maoists' Mil tactics, alluding to some sort of inside help or training from Army-men(but this was at least an year or two before).
Imagine ex-special forces personnel training and managing Maoist cadre!


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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> I asked it because I remember reading somewhere that CRPF was concerned about the increasing sophistication of Maoists' Mil tactics, alluding to some sort of inside help or training from Army-men(but this was at least an year or two before).
> Imagine ex-special forces personnel training and managing Maoist cadre!


More like PLA support .


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## Indischer

Abingdonboy said:


> @Capt.Popeye has said pretty much all there is to say. But I will say that even ex-SF operators in the West get themselves involved in some pretty shady activities.



Yup. Blackwater reportedly had a few ex-Navy Seals and DEVGRU personnel. Such men, if they turn over to the 'Dark side' are all Darth Vader material!


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## Capt.Popeye

Indischer said:


> I asked it because I remember reading somewhere that CRPF was concerned about the increasing sophistication of Maoists' Mil tactics, alluding to some sort of inside help or training from Army-men(but this was at least an year or two before).
> Imagine ex-special forces personnel training and managing Maoist cadre!


 
See, anything is possible. Indians do not live in Gulags and the Republic is not a "Big Brother State"; so that may not be an impossibility. But it is not so critical and can be tackled quite easily. Its in the higher echelons that monitoring is a greater necessity. Imagine a Three Star General like a Hamid Gulbul type running amok. That is more serious.

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## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> Yup. Blackwater reportedly had a few ex-Navy Seals and DEVGRU personnel. Such men, if they turn over to the 'Dark side' are all Darth Vader material!


It's a known fact that ex-SFs are are prized commodities by these PMCs- you'll find SAS,SBS,SASR, SEALS, DEVGRU, DELTA, GREEN BERETS,KSK,SPETZNEZ etc etc guys all on their payroll. And ex-Indian Mil aren't immune these days- didn't the MV Seaman Guard Ohio have ex Indian Army and Navy personel on board? It makes sense, PMCs can pay BIG money and there's only so much men with such skill sets can do when out on "civvie street".



Capt.Popeye said:


> See, anything is possible. Indians do not live in Gulags and the Republic is not a "Big Brother State"; so that may not be an impossibility. But it is not so critical and can be tackled quite easily. Its in the higher echelons that monitoring is a greater necessity. *Imagine a Three Star General like a Hamid Gulbul type running amok. That is more serious.*


Come on, this couldn't happen in India.

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> More like PLA support .


 
Not only that. The Maoists have some intelligent people too who can read and understand literature. BTW; it needs as much brains as brawn to be effective in combat. Not much of that "martial races cr@p" that some here swear by................not by a long shot.



Abingdonboy said:


> Come on, this couldn't happen in India.


 
Yes and No.
Fanaticism is not much appreciated in the Indian Forces and serious cases get weeded out early enough.
But its not an impossibility, though the system works hard to keep the probability low.

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## Indischer

I just felt that given the huge number of Special Forces personnel that we have amongst our ranks, it's better to prevent them getting disillusioned with our policies. 

Just the other day, someone posted an ex-Special forces jawan working at a Brick kiln. If this is the sort of rehabilitation we are providing to our Special Forces, why shouldn't they go rogue?!


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## Abingdonboy

Capt.Popeye said:


> Yes and No.
> Fanaticism is not much appreciated in the Indian Forces and serious cases get weeded out early enough.
> But its not an impossibility, though the system works hard to keep the probability low.


You said it sir. And whilst you can never say sever one needn't be up at night worrying about such eventualities. Also in the Indian armed forces individual commanders/generals don't have anywhere near as much independence or freedom as enjoyed by their counterparts in Pakistan. 



Capt.Popeye said:


> Not only that. The Maoists have some intelligent people too who can read and understand literature. BTW; it needs as much brains as brawn to be effective in combat. Not much of that "martial races cr@p" that some here swear by................not by a long shot.


Well quite. And the "increasing sophistication" the CRPF mentioned referred to tactics one could pick up from the internet.



Indischer said:


> I just felt that given the huge number of Special Forces personnel that we have amongst our ranks, it's better to prevent them getting disillusioned with our policies.
> 
> Just the other day, someone posted an ex-Special forces jawan working at a Brick kiln. If this is the sort of rehabilitation we are providing to our Special Forces, why shouldn't they go rogue?!


The Indian military as a whole is apolitical- this is drilled into each and every recruit and is practiced throughout the armed forces. This is just how it is. Whilst certain individuals may have their own issues it doesn't point to some scare/apocalyptic scenario where the ex-Indian Mil personel turn against the very nation they have spent most of their adult lives serving. Let's not forget these men and women are, on the whole, the very best India has to offer wrt morality and loyalty and these characteristics have only been enhanced and polished whilst in uniform. 


The subject of military pensions and after-service care is worth looking at of course but not for the reasons you explicitly suggest. Mostly just because these ex-service men and women are deserving of more.

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> You said it sir. And whilst you can never say sever one needn't be up at night worrying about such eventualities. Also in the Indian armed forces individual commanders/generals don't have anywhere near as much independence or freedom as enjoyed by their counterparts in Pakistan.


 
Yes. The Chain of Command within the Forces and _wrt_ the Govt. is very clearly defined and understood and respected. Nobody can easily _"monkey around"_ with it and get away.
India is no _Banana Republik_ although it may have so many _Mango People_.

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## Abingdonboy

Capt.Popeye said:


> Yes. The Chain of Command within the Forces and _wrt_ the Govt. is very clearly defined and understood and respected. Nobody can easily _"monkey around"_ with it and get away.
> India is no _Banana Republik_ although it may have so many _Mango People_.


Precisely. 


123456


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## Indischer

Abingdonboy said:


> You said it sir. And whilst you can never say sever one needn't be up at night worrying about such eventualities. Also in the Indian armed forces individual commanders/generals don't have anywhere near as much independence or freedom as enjoyed by their counterparts in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Well quite. And the "increasing sophistication" the CRPF mentioned referred to tactics one could pick up from the internet.
> 
> 
> The Indian military as a whole is apolitical- this is drilled into each and every recruit and is practiced throughout the armed forces. This is just how it is. Whilst certain individuals may have their own issues it doesn't point to some scare/apocalyptic scenario where the ex-Indian Mil personel turn against the very nation they have spent most of their adult lives serving. Let's not forget these men and women are, on the whole, the very best India has to offer wrt morality and loyalty and these characteristics have only been enhanced and polished whilst in uniform.
> 
> 
> The subject of military pensions and after-service care is worth looking at of course but not for the reasons you explicitly suggest. Mostly just because these ex-service men and women are deserving of more.


Very true Sir. I too felt guilty raising these issues as I felt I was questioning the integrity of Men who've served my Motherland in ways that I never can.

But nevertheless, I feel that the days of the Jawan obeying his Officer with unflinching loyalty are beginning to recede. It's not a coincidence that the last 2-3 years have seen many cases of mutinies and fragging. I felt that our armed forces too must be proactive on this and introduce good pay and rehabilitation programmes for our Jawans, and maybe keep an odd eye on any known hotheads.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Indischer said:


> I asked it because I remember reading somewhere that CRPF was concerned about the increasing sophistication of Maoists' Mil tactics, alluding to some sort of inside help or training from Army-men(but this was at least an year or two before).
> Imagine ex-special forces personnel training and managing Maoist cadre!


You are right.IA has many tribals from Jharkhand and Chattisgarh serving in Infantry and Ghataks.So the chances are there that some of them might help the maoists.I know many tribals in IA and talk to them on this.Till now there hasnt been any reported case but in future who knows what might happen...



Indischer said:


> I just felt that given the hugein number of Special Forces personnel that we have amongst our ranks, it's better to prevent them getting disillusioned with our policies.
> 
> Just the other day, someone posted an ex-Special forces jawan working at a Brick kiln. If this is the sort of rehabilitation we are providing to our Special Forces, why shouldn't they go rogue?!


IA ex SF mostly work as bodyguards and in private security companies.They have also been working in Iraq...some of them secretly work for RAW.

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## Indischer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You are right.IA has many tribals from Jharkhand and Chattisgarh serving in Infantry and Ghataks.So the chances are there that some of them might help the maoists.I know many tribals in IA and talk to them on this.Till now there hasnt been any reported case but in future who knows what might happen...
> 
> 
> IA ex SF mostly work as bodyguards and in private security companies.They have also been working in Iraq...some of them secretly work for RAW.



Were you in the Armed Forces too?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Indisisher said:


> Very true Sir. I too felt guilty raising these issues as I felt I was questioning the integrity of Men who've served my Motherland in ways that I never can.
> 
> But nevertheless, I feel that the days of the Jawan obeying his Officer with unflinching loyalty are beginning to recede. It's not a coincidence that the last 2-3 years have seen many cases of mutinies and fragging. I felt that our armed forces too must be proactive on this and introduce good pay and rehabilitation programmes for our Jawans, and maybe keep an odd eye on any known hotheads.


Todays jawan is a well educated jawan who has an account on facebook and Whatsapp on his cell phone.Gone are the days when a 12th pass officer had to control a 8th pass jawan.They are really smart and know their thing...



Indischer said:


> Were you in the Armed Forces too?


No..I am a commercial pilot who recently completed his training.My entire family has served in the Army with my grand father fighting in 2nd world war and my dad was the RR sector commander of Delta Force.

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## Indischer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No..I am a commercial pilot who recently completed his training.My entire family has served in the Army with my grand father fighting in 2nd world war and my dad was the RR sector commander of Delta Force.



That's one Helluva pedigree! 

I guess you get to listen to lots of tidbits about our Army. Lucky!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> That's one Helluva pedigree!
> 
> I guess you get to listen to lots of tidbits about our Army. Lucky!


Not from my dad but from the friends I have made while visiting barracks, langars and the unit band.I have shared some of my experiences in this thread.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> T
> 
> No..I am a commercial pilot who recently completed his training.My entire family has served in the Army with my grand father fighting in 2nd world war and my dad was the RR sector commander of Delta Force.


Congrats mate!! 

It's been too long since we caught up

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## bloo

*Taking Aim
*
The Indian small and medium arms market present a major opportunity
By Atul Chandra






_India has selected the 9mm UZI for its special forces_

The next three to five years will be crucial for global small arms companies who are looking at closing vital contracts with the Indian military, paramilitary and police forces for replacement of their small and medium arms. The inability to develop an indigenous weapon in the 5.56mm or 7.62 calibre will now prove costly, as it is all but certain that the next generation of small and medium weapons for India’s military, paramilitary and police forces will come from abroad. This market for small and medium arms military sales to India is the big prize for the global small arms industry whose estimated annual authorised trade exceeds USD 8.5 billion.

As part of the Indian Army’s ‘Future Infantry Soldier as a System’ 2020 (FINSAS 2020) programme an estimated USD 10 billion (Rs 60,000 crore) would be spent on acquiring small and medium arms. The requirements for modern small and medium arms are spread across the IA, Indian Air Force (Garud’s) and Indian Navy (Marine Commando’s) along with Border Security Force (BSF), Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), Special Frontier Force (SFF), and police units, which are involved in homeland security or anti-Maoist operations. Acquisitions of modern small and medium arms have currently been limited to military Special Forces and elite units along with those procured by paramilitary and police forces. This has led to the induction of a bewildering range of weapons procured from countries such as Israel, Germany, Switzerland and the US to name a few.

For foreign manufacturers who have already bagged contracts in India and those who are vying for more business, the going is slow and difficult. According to Wg Cdr (retd) Neelu Khatri, head - defence & security advisory services, KPMG Advisory Services, “The primary difficulty faced by companies offering small arms to the Indian market is the multiple government agencies involved in the procurement process. Each government department that the company wants to sell its guns to has to go through their specific procurement procedures including trials, these are further exasperated if the ministry of home affairs (MHA) shows interest in the gun system, with various state police forces wanting to take individual trials of the guns. The upfront heavy financial burden to the company without any promise of future purchases is a dampener. Another challenge is successful Transfer Of Technology (TOT) to the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) – the designated Indian small arms manufacturer in the country, whose production processes are very different from those in the western countries and technology absorption is not easy.” She adds, “The pace of procurement is certainly not sufficient. Decision to render more impetus to indigenisation will further add to delay since local companies will get technology from global OEMs and will climb up to the learning curve of integration.”
The Indian small and medium arms market present a major opportunity

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## Unknowncommando

*NSG commandos stand guard at Elante *
Chandigarh, November 26 


The National Security Guards (NSG) in coordination with the Chandigarh Police is conducting a three-day training programme-cum-mock drill at prominent places in the city. The programme began today with the NSG commandos entering the Elante mall and Infosys building and undertaking an exercise to combat terror attack. *
NSG commandos prepare for mock drill at the Elante mall in Industrial Area, Chandigarh, on Tuesday. *
*
















*

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## Unknowncommando

http://*****************/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Commando-of-IAF%E2%80%99s-Special-Force-%E2%80%98Garuds%E2%80%99-slithering-down-from-an-IAF-MI-17-V5-Helicopter-during-Air-Show-at-Air-Force-Station-Sonegaon-Nagpur-on-31-Oct-2013..jpg

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> *NSG commandos stand guard at Elante *
> Chandigarh, November 26


Zoom in and check the gear on these guys!! Looking very nice


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## Iggy

Unknowncommando said:


>



What is that black round thing on their back??


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## me_itsme

seiko said:


> What is that black round thing on their back??



Sleeping mat I presume.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

*Operation 'Mandhol' forced Pakistan to change war plan*

CHANDIGARH: While hundreds of brave soldiers made the ultimate sacrifice during the 1971 India-Pakistan war, the operation 'Mandhol' carried out by 9 Para Commandos unit in Poonch sector of Jammu and Kashmir was the only classical commando raid executed by special forces in the war.

In this operation, the Para Commandos or special forces of the Indian Army had carried the first raid after their formation by entering enemy territory and eliminating their artillery guns.
Chandigarh-based Colonel (retd) K D Pathak was then a captain and second-in-command of the company of 120 men who had carried out the remarkable operation, which made Pakistan change its war doctrine. Operation 'Mandhol' is also part of the curriculum in the Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun, where cadets are trained as future officers of the Army.

Recalling the night of December 13 and 14, 1971, Col Pathak, 73, said his unit was posted at 'Nangi Tekri' post at the height of 4,665 feet in Poonch sector and was assigned the task of destroying Pakistan's artillery guns positioned near Mandole village, which was around 19km southwest of Poonch. Six 122mm Chinese guns of Pakistani battery were creating trouble for 93 and 120 infantry brigades of the Indian Army.

"We started around 5.30pm on December 13 with one company comprising six officers and around 120 men of 9 Para Commando unit led by Major C M Malhotra," Col Pathak recalled.

According to Col Pathak, it was a cold night and they had to cross waist-deep water of Poonch river to reach Mandole. On reaching the village, they found it completely deserted, but the raiding party locate the enemy guns with the help of an old man. After tracing the gun positions, the party was split into six groups with each attacking one gun. After a fierce battle with the enemy all guns were destroyed with the help of pencil-cell connected timer explosives. During the fight, many soldiers of Pakistan army were killed while several fled. The raiding party of Indians lost two of its men while 20 were wounded.

"It was also an uphill task to return to our territory with wounded soldiers and the body of a soldier. Cots, taken from villages, were improvised and turned into stretchers to carry the wounded soldiers. We reached our post at 6.30am," Pathak recounted.

He, however, has one grouse that their feat was recognized only when the delegations of the Pakistan Army, after ceasefire, narrated the heroic act carried out by the Indian troops at Mandhol. "The act of the raiding team did not fetch it many gallantry awards, but for the overall operations in the Poonch sector, the Para Commandos were awarded the 'Battle Honour' in the 1971 war. What can be more proud for the Para Commandos that the operation carried out by them is part of the curriculum of IMA," Pathak said.

The 'Mandhol' operation had so deep an impact on the Pak Army that it had to raise a second line of troops to secure their artillery guns thereby making a change in its war doctrine.


Operation 'Mandhol' forced Pakistan to change war plan - Times Of India

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Zoom in and check the gear on these guys!! Looking very nice


yes bro bt i dnt understand why the hell.reporters dnt focus on right things and available pic is also small in size.even no pic of NSG performing mock drill.


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> yes bro bt i dnt understand why the hell.reporters dnt focus on right things and available pic is also small in size.even no pic of NSG performing mock drill.


Precisely!! There is such little reporting done on them that most people assume they are in the same sorry state as 26/11. 

Of course the NSG are secretive themselves. 


Even when there are public displays such as at their annual raising day celebrations apart from 2-3 pictures there is NOTHING and that to after scores of journos and photographers being at the event!!


Would love to see pics of these guys on a regular basis. They really seem to have got their act together on the equipment front.

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## Abingdonboy

*Daredevil Marcos with a heart of gold*

VISAKHAPATNAM: They may be better known for their skydiving and combating skills, be it on snowy mountains, deserts, dense forests or water bodies, but there is an altogether different side to the elite marine commandoes of the Indian Navy or Marcos as they are better known, that is unknown to most. 

Their 'steely minds' may not hesitate even for a moment to send terrorists and traitors packing to hell, but their hearts of gold drive them to take up various philanthropic activities in the guise of volunteers, away from the prying eyes of the media. There are few such Marcos in the Eastern Naval Command (ENC) at Visakhapatnam too, who shy away from unwanted publicity but whose inspiring and Good Samaritan activities deserve to be saluted. 

One of the most enthusiastic is a young Lieutenant Vijay Verma, who has been working for the cause of the environment, animals and reaching out to poor children and orphanages. On most Sundays, he can be found working in the city zoo or animal rescue centres, tidying up the shelters and cages, depositing food and medicines for his zoo 'friends' with the authorities. So passionate is he about animal rights that he took the initiative of seeking help from the World Wildlife Federation (WWF) to save certain endangered marine species that have been meeting a fatal end due to the callousness of various government departments and legal loopholes in the system. In fact, he has gone all out to launch a crusade by seeking the help of various stakeholders in conserving sea creatures. 

That's not all. Vijay and his other Marco friends also roam around in fisherfolk villages, interact with them to ascertain their problems and distribute food, health drinks and clothes to the children. Some of them also extend help in kind to orphanages and children's homes. 

Extremely skilled at his job, daredevil Commander B Kishore, along with his family, makes monthly visits to some fishing villages housing a few thousand people in the vicinity of Vizag, his jeep loaded with clothes, cosmetics, books, toys and board games for the villagers, especially children. "We collect these items from other officers and their families. It's heartening to see that the moment we land, around 300-400 poor villagers swarm around our vehicle. In a minute, the things are all gone - so needy are they," averred Commander Kishore. 

Then there is Lt Commander Suryaprakash Singh, who motivated by his philanthropic father, quietly extends a helping hand to those mentally ill found wandering around the city. He takes them to hospital for treatment, apart from helping the needy and downtrodden. "My father used to say, 'the left hand shouldn't know what the right hand is upto'. So, I try to follow it and render social service as a personal interest," said Singh. 

When asked about his service-oriented approach, Lt Vijay said, "At the end of the day, I ask myself daily, what had been my contribution to the society. My official duties are not enough. Protecting the country is not my responsibility alone. I want every citizen to come forward and make a difference in some way and be part of the system to change the system. There's such joy and satisfaction in bringing smiles on the faces of the needy, in protecting God's creatures, that wielding weapons of war can never compensate for." 
*(Names and ranks of all Navy officials have been changed to protect their identity) *
*
Daredevil Marcos with a heart of gold - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site*

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## JAYSINGH

haman10 said:


> VZ-58 of indian SF :



THIS IS NOT INDIAN THIS IS IRAQI SF GUN


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Immanuel

Capt.Popeye said:


> What cr@p. They are not even officially considered to be SF. Just some self-appointed (or fanboy-appointed) SFs who are seeking some undeserved glory via FB pages. With Bollywood-esque posed shots.
> 
> Even the SFF or Ladakh Scouts or _"Thud/Thud"_ Gorkhas are more deserving of SF labels than these wannabes. Who seem to be gathering some "groupies" like Yo Yo Honey Singh.
> But have you seen any of the "genuine SF guys" making FB pages? Only the _Policias _can do that with their lax discipline.


 

Actually that is rather silly, they are considered elite police commandos by the GOI, do not underestimate COBRA units, they are by far among the most well trained Police Commando Units in the world. Together with Greyhound commando units, few forces in the world can compare to them. They are trained for months on end and can be deployed into the field to fend for themselves for over 12 days that too during basic training, most SF units in the world can last 4 days in the field before they need resupply while COBRA units live off the jungle for weeks on end. Their operations can last over 2-5 weeks and include long treks in mine infested thick jungles, deep recon for weeks, before they pounce on their target. They train in the Jungle Warfare School in Mizoram along with other elite units and other well known training academys. For the job description, they are the best. As far as experience is concerned only Greyhound commandos from Andhra police are better. After basic training, units are sent to the Valley to particularly welcome friendly pigs from across the LOC

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Immanuel said:


> Actually that is rather silly, they are considered elite police commandos by the GOI, do not underestimate COBRA units, they are by far among the most well trained Police Commando Units in the world. Together with Greyhound commando units, few forces in the world can compare to them. They are trained for months on end and can be deployed into the field to fend for themselves for over 12 days that too during basic training, most SF units in the world can last 4 days in the field before they need resupply while COBRA units live off the jungle for weeks on end. Their operations can last over 2-5 weeks and include long treks in mine infested thick jungles, deep recon for weeks, before they pounce on their target. They train in the Jungle Warfare School in Mizoram along with other elite units and other well known training academys. For the job description, they are the best. As far as experience is concerned only Greyhound commandos from Andhra police are better. After basic training, units are sent to the Valley to particularly welcome friendly pigs from across the LOC



They comapre to the best units in the world and are the best you said..Which best units may i ask?..Are you talking about DEVGRU,SAS,SPETSNAZ,GROM,SHAYETET13?

Sir,Do you even know what a special force is and what its purpose is?..because had you known that you would be holding your head after watching their fashion show poses in facebook.

After getting trained in a school(CIJWS) which is meant for IA regulars aka Infantrymen or the foot soldiers you claim them to be world beaters?...And for your kind information the school that trains SF is the one based in Nahan and not in CIJWS when you talk about the Army and Marcos have theirs in Kerala(a new one is comming up in Goa).

And for you information in Operation Barras the SAS Sniper team was deployed for 7 days(they didnt move for those 7 days)..and you say NO SF CAN LAST 4 DAYS.

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They comapre to the best units in the world and are the best you said..Which best units may i ask?..Are you talking about DEVGRU,SAS,SPETSNAZ,GROM,SHAYETET13?
> 
> Sir,Do you even know what a special force is and what its purpose is?..because had you known that you would be holding your head after watching their fashion show poses in facebook.
> 
> After getting trained in a school(CIJWS) which is meant for IA regulars aka Infantrymen or the foot soldiers you claim them to be world beaters?...And for your kind information the school that trains SF is the one based in Nahan and not in CIJWS when you talk about the Army and Marcos have theirs in Kerala(a new one is comming up in Goa).
> 
> And for you information in Operation Barras the SAS Sniper team was deployed for 7 days(they didnt move for those 7 days)..and you say NO SF CAN LAST 4 DAYS.




may be he was comparing cobra force with other police special units......


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> may be he was comparing cobra force with other police special units......



He said SF...and i did talk about SF only.


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## Thirdfront

Immanuel said:


> Actually that is rather silly, they are considered elite police commandos by the GOI, do not underestimate COBRA units, they are by far among the most well trained Police Commando Units in the world. Together with Greyhound commando units, few forces in the world can compare to them. They are trained for months on end and can be deployed into the field to fend for themselves for over 12 days that too during basic training, most SF units in the world can last 4 days in the field before they need resupply while COBRA units live off the jungle for weeks on end. Their operations can last over 2-5 weeks and include long treks in mine infested thick jungles, deep recon for weeks, before they pounce on their target. They train in the Jungle Warfare School in Mizoram along with other elite units and other well known training academys. For the job description, they are the best. As far as experience is concerned only Greyhound commandos from Andhra police are better. After basic training, units are sent to the Valley to particularly welcome friendly pigs from across the LOC


CoBras were basically used against naxals. Do you have any info about operations/ success achieved by them? We hear 100 Grey Hounds/CRPF dead in a single raid by naxals (at least 2 incidents). How many naxals killed by CoBra?


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## bloo




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bloo said:


>


Definitely not marcos.


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Definitely not marcos.



And most probably not even Indians .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> And most probably not even Indians .



IndiaTV is the source...


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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> IndiaTV is the source...



Less said the better ... 

@bloo 

Found it from *** , they are Indonesian Special forces not Indian .


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## Unknowncommando

SOME AWESOME PICS OF MARCOS FROM NAVY DAY CELEBRATIONS


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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> You're so tiresome sometimes buddy. What tin helmet???!!!
> 
> 
> Stop visiting this thread bro. You add nothing. All you seem to do is troll and try to make out Paksitani SFs are better.


Yes they r because they dont wear masks and indians do



UDAYCAMPUS said:


> shouldn't their face be covered always?


ask Abingdonboy


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## Unknowncommando




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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> You said it sir. And whilst you can never say sever one needn't be up at night worrying about such eventualities. Also in the Indian armed forces individual commanders/generals don't have anywhere near as much independence or freedom as enjoyed by their counterparts in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> .


We have here the freedom and independence which is hard earned kiddo. Where it takes u 72hrs to operate against just 9 people we take just 44 minutes inside our Airbase!!


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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> We have here the freedom and independence which is hard earned kiddo. Where it takes u 72hrs to operate against just 9 people we take just 44 minutes inside our Airbase!!


What a troll, comparing apples and oranges. How about we compare this 60 hour operation clearing 1000s of rooms to the Lal Masjid siege ? Oh no, of course not- that's doesn't paint you in a very good light does it?

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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> What a troll, comparing apples and oranges. How about we compare this 60 hour operation clearing 1000s of rooms to the Lal Masjid siege ? Oh no, of course not- that's doesn't paint you in a very good light does it?


still 60hrs with more then 800+ vs 72hrs with just 9 commandos of SSG.

Kid our SSG is the most battle hardened. They carry ops every single day!

Anyways Waar is going to be release in UK in 17 jan.

Why not watch it and learn how real men fight.


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## AMCA

Umair Nawaz said:


> We have here the freedom and independence which is hard earned kiddo. Where it takes u 72hrs to operate against just 9 people we take just 44 minutes inside our Airbase!!



You are comparing a 44 minutes operation right under the nose of your armed forces where chances of civilian causality is almost zero, to an incident wherein over a thousand lives were in peril?

The very reason to have a 44 minutes siege to capture a bunch of terrorists right under a closely guarded military area is a failure on your military and you boast it as its supremacy?

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## Umair Nawaz

AMCA said:


> You are comparing a 44 minutes operation right under the nose of your armed forces where chances of civilian causality is almost zero, to an incident wherein over a thousand lives were in peril?
> 
> The very reason to have a 44 minutes siege to capture a bunch of terrorists right under a closely guarded military area is a failure on your military and you boast it as its supremacy?


That was inside our main AB where our main A/C fleet is parked. Even one bullet can damage the a/c enough to not be in a flyable condition anymore! Its home to our AWACS too.
Still 44min vs 72hrs where the civilians were evacuated from area with in a few hrs of conflict!

and they were more then just 9!


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## AMCA

Umair Nawaz said:


> That was inside our main AB where our main A/C fleet is parked. Even one bullet can damage the a/c enough to not be in a flyable condition anymore! Its home to our AWACS too.
> Still 44min vs 72hrs where the civilians were evacuated from area with in a few hrs of conflict!
> 
> and they were more then just 9!



If your Forces could not save their own base? you expect them to guard your nation? Keep arguing the 44 Min : 72 Hrs ops.


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## Umair Nawaz

AMCA said:


> If your Forces could not save their own base? you expect them to guard your nation? Keep arguing the 44 Min : 72 Hrs ops.


LOL our forces did saved our bases and r saving our country day and night too......Thats why like Abingdonboy said they enjoy freedom and independence because they have performances under their belt unlike their rivals who take their frustration our on innocent Kashmiri Muslims.


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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> still 60hrs with more then 800+ vs 72hrs with just 9 commandos of SSG.
> 
> Kid our SSG is the most battle hardened. They carry ops every single day!
> 
> Anyways Waar is going to be release in UK in 17 jan.
> 
> Why not watch it and learn how real men fight.


Where are you getting your numbers from? Your backside? The number of NSG in 26/11 NEVER exceeded 200, this is stated fact, the number of SSG involved in the Lal Masjid Siege was 160+ not NINE! I mean you really think there were only NINE (or 1 team) SSG present during the entire operation? Are you an idiot? 

Then you have the fact that in 26/11 the number of attackers wasn't known, the task facing the NSG was huge an unprecedented anywhere in the world- multiple locations, spread out over a large geographical area, 1000+ rooms to search in high-rises to face an unknown number of terrorists and to free an unknown number of civilians who in many cases refused to open their rooms and had barricaded themselves in so they had to use explosive entry, add on top of this the fact the NSG had zero plans for any of the hotels. A hostage rescue operation of this scale had never before been attempted, or even envisioned, nor has it since. Granted the Lal Masjid siege was a hard task in itself but to tout that as a success and 26/11 a failure is so absurdly wrong. 


As @AMCA says, if you think militants getting access to some of your ,supposedly, most secure military installations and destroying your nation's strategic assets is a cause for celebration then, yes, Pakistan has a lot to cheer about. I mean it's not as if these bases should have QRTs or highly detailed plans or the base or very low probability of civilian casualties- is it?



Umair Nawaz said:


> LOL our forces did saved our bases and r saving our country day and night too......Thats why like Abingdonboy said they enjoy freedom and independence because they have performances under their belt unlike their rivals who take their frustration our on innocent Kashmiri Muslims.


And there it is, eh?!! Kashmir- I mean it's so pathetic how transfixed you are by this issue.

And fine, let your military have all the control it wants- who am I to criticise them? It's not as if they have their own agenda is it? It's not as if they are a self-sustaining entity that seeks to further their own cause above all else. It's not as though they have subverted your democracy how many times now? It's not as if former generals are now magically billionaires now. It's not as if this freedom has lead to the training and financing of those who are now attacking your own nation. 

The freedom the Pakistani Mil enjoys has so obviously worked out for your nation, please don't let me comment on things I clearly know nothing about.

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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> Where are you getting your numbers from? Your backside? The number of NSG in 26/11 NEVER exceeded 200, this is stated fact, the number of SSG involved in the Lal Masjid Siege was 160+ not NINE! I mean you really think there were only NINE (or 1 team) SSG present during the entire operation? Are you an idiot?
> .


im talking abt Lal Masjid dumbo.....the people whom against we carried out op were more then 800+. where as in Mumbai drama u had just 9 men to take care of and for that it took u 72hrs. Anyways 44min Kamra AB op where the sensitive a/c r kept was also done by more then 9 men 11 maybe. Still it took us 44 min and u 72hrs even in islamabad according to u it took us 60hrs which is pretty exaggerated. But still 60 vs 72 is big difference.

Rest of yr post.........Why dont u watch our new film waar and see how real men fight? its going to be released on 17th.



Abingdonboy said:


> And there it is, eh?!! Kashmir- I mean it's so pathetic how transfixed you are by this issue.


in all these years u dont know me?

im a kashmiri myself thats why im as rightfully transfixed by this issue.


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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> im talking abt Lal Masjid dumbo.....the people whom against we carried out op were more then 800+. where as in Mumbai drama u had just 9 men to take care of and for that it took u 72hrs.


The number of attackers were not known at the time. The Mumbai siege lasted 60 hours not 72. And mate I've outlined why it took so long anyway in my post above. I've nothing really more to say.


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## kbd-raaf

Umair Nawaz said:


> im talking abt Lal Masjid dumbo.....the people whom against we carried out op were more then 800+. where as in Mumbai drama u had just 9 men to take care of and for that it took u 72hrs. Anyways 44min Kamra AB op where the sensitive a/c r kept was also done by more then 9 men 11 maybe. Still it took us 44 min and u 72hrs even in islamabad according to u it took us 60hrs which is pretty exaggerated. But still 60 vs 72 is big difference.
> 
> Rest of yr post.........Why dont u watch our new film waar and see how real men fight? its going to be released on 17th.
> 
> 
> in all these years u dont know me?
> 
> im a kashmiri myself thats why im as rightfully transfixed by this issue.



Idiocy - thy name is Umair 

How's the Lexus SUV going? Or was that DESERT FIGHTER, can't quite recall.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Whoever says PAK SF is saving the country everyday can just open his map and look at a high altitude glacier..up north..called Siachen(nothing to do with cricket) and go and visit the Army headquaters in Pindi to ask them why o why couldnt the PAK SF defeat a bunch of foot soldiers from India?

Comming to the second point...your fcking airbase was attacked and you are boasting about it..2 a/cs damaged man..Isnt it enough..Why did your security forces fail in the first place if they are so good?

Your SF guys surrender...do you teach this in your SF school?

And surrendering is not something new also..The same great SSG surrendered in 65 war too.

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## Umair Nawaz

kbd-raaf said:


> Idiocy - thy name is Umair
> 
> How's the Lexus SUV going? Or was that DESERT FIGHTER, can't quite recall.


Lexus is as comfy as it is.....But what abt yr maruti? i hope yr not enjoying yr bumpy rides even in the roads of Australia.


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## kbd-raaf

Umair Nawaz said:


> Lexus is as comfy as it is.....But what abt yr maruti? i hope yr not enjoying yr bumpy rides even in the roads of Australia.



Getting along, y'know


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## IndoUS

kbd-raaf said:


> Idiocy - thy name is Umair
> 
> How's the Lexus SUV going? Or was that DESERT FIGHTER, can't quite recall.



Man that awesome fake picture of his car was also pretty good.

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## Umair Nawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> *The number of attackers were not known at the time.* The Mumbai siege lasted 60 hours not 72. And mate I've outlined why it took so long anyway in my post above. I've nothing really more to say.


this is a normal thing. Do u even think we knew abt the attackers in Kamra, Mehran and Lal Masjid conflicts?
This is a basic know how abt Spec Ops, have u even every talked to a person related to SFs ever in yr life??



kbd-raaf said:


> Getting along, y'know


good to know........and good for u.


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## RAMPAGE

kbd-raaf said:


> Idiocy - thy name is Umair
> 
> *How's the Lexus SUV going*? Or was that DESERT FIGHTER, can't quite recall.


What's with the lexus bro ??? you don't have them in Australia


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## kbd-raaf

RAMPAGE said:


> What's with the lexus bro ??? you don't have them in Australia



Australians do, I personally don't.

Umair likes to talk about his (his dad's) SUV, he hasn't in his last post, so I was making sure it hadn't burnt down or something, y'know, friendly concern.

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## bloo

kurup said:


> Less said the better ...
> 
> @bloo
> 
> Found it from *** , they are Indonesian Special forces not Indian .




hmmm 
I thought as much.

Thnx for the info.


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## bloo

Umair Nawaz said:


> im talking abt Lal Masjid dumbo.....the people whom against we carried out op were more then 800+. where as in Mumbai drama u had just 9 men to take care of and for that it took u 72hrs. Anyways 44min Kamra AB op where the sensitive a/c r kept was also done by more then 9 men 11 maybe. Still it took us 44 min and u 72hrs even in islamabad according to u it took us 60hrs which is pretty exaggerated. But still 60 vs 72 is big difference.
> 
> Rest of yr post.........Why dont u watch our new film waar and see how real men fight? its going to be released on 17th.
> 
> 
> in all these years u dont know me?
> 
> im a kashmiri myself thats why im as rightfully transfixed by this issue.




What?

Lal Masjid incident was a confined scenario where the situation was more crowd control than anything else.
The actual number of militants were around 150 lesser than the 160 SSGs. They were outgunned and were confined like rats in a flat structure like a Masjid unlike buildings which give vantage points and more cover.
*Compare that to 26/11 where the battle ground was a large metropolis, a railway station, an apartment complex, and 1000+ hotel rooms.* 26/11 was more complicated in terms of warfare with bomb blasts, indiscriminate shootings and seige and THE MOST IMPORTANT, TERRORISTS DIDN'T CONFINE THEMSELVES IN AN ENCLOSED LOCATION unlike all the three incidents you mentioned.
If you know anything about Guerrilla warfare, then you should know that numbers don't matter as small numbers can inflict more damage than large numbers, 26/11 is example in itself as all the 3 OH SO complicated of your incidents had lesser casualties compared to 26/11.
26/11 was a logistical challenge as well as an anti-siege operation and compare that to Lal Masjid, Mehra or Kamra attacks none were as complicated or even had any similar logistical problems. 

As for Waar.
Yeah sure, compare a work of fiction to real life.
Now you should know that you have no right to diss someone who says that you all live in clouds.

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## Umair Nawaz

bloo said:


> What?
> 
> Lal Masjid incident was a confined scenario where the situation was more crowd control than anything else.
> The actual number of militants were around 150 lesser than 160 SSGs. They were under outgunned and were confined like rats in a flat structure like Masjid ulike buildings which give vantage points and more cover.
> *Compare that to 26/11 where the battle ground was a large metropolis, a railway station, an apartment complex, and 1000+ hotel rooms.* 26/11 was more complicated in terms of warfare with bomb blasts, indiscriminate shootings and seige and THE MOST IMPORTANT, TERRORISTS DIDN'T CONFINE THEMSELVES IN AN ENCLOSED LOCATION unlike allhe three incidents you mentioned.
> If you know anything about Guerrilla warfare, then you should know that numbers don't matter as small numbers can inflict more damage than large numbers, 26/11 is example in itself as all the 3 OH SO complicated of your incidents had lesser casualties compared to 26/11.
> 26/11 was logistical challenge as well as a anti-siege operation and compare that to Lal Masjid, Mehra or Kamra attacks none were as complicated or even had any similar logistical problems.
> 
> As for Waar.
> Yeah sure, compare a work of fiction to real life.
> Now you should know that you have no right to diss someone who says that you all live in clouds.


Really, operation took place at a religious place and a residential area. 
Have u ever been to islamabad?


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## bloo

Umair Nawaz said:


> Really, operation took place at a religious place and a residential area.
> Have u ever been to islamabad?



Yeah sure, compare an enclosed area to building structures inside a 233 sq mi area.
PS- I don't need to be in Islamabad to have common sense.


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## Umair Nawaz

bloo said:


> Yeah sure, compare an enclosed area to building structures inside a 233 sq mi area.
> PS- I don't need to be in Islamabad to have common sense.


No wonder, as u have never been to islamabad so u cant guess or know this area that im talking about.


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## bloo

Umair Nawaz said:


> No wonder, as u have never been to islamabad so u cant guess or know this area that im talking about.



Please enlighten me and do tell me how big lal masjid is?
And I'm sure it is bigger than Mumbai which is is why you fail to grasp the crux of my post.


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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS
















NSG








MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## vivINDIAN

Unknowncommando said:


>


 Grand Master Shifuji
worlds best Commando trainer

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

vivINDIAN said:


> Grand Master Shifuji
> worlds best Commando trainer



No way is he the best...he is not even training the Indian SF currently.His form of martial arts is not in the syllabus also and he looks like a comedian to me.He knows martial arts but he doesnt know CQB so why the hell is he even posing like an idiot.

These guys are training the Indian SF in Pekiti Tersia Kali.











P.S-I do MMA so i know what i am talking about.Infact i was so impressed by these guys that i have even sent them an email to enroll.

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## Immanuel

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They comapre to the best units in the world and are the best you said..Which best units may i ask?..Are you talking about DEVGRU,SAS,SPETSNAZ,GROM,SHAYETET13?
> 
> Sir,Do you even know what a special force is and what its purpose is?..because had you known that you would be holding your head after watching their fashion show poses in facebook.
> 
> After getting trained in a school(CIJWS) which is meant for IA regulars aka Infantrymen or the foot soldiers you claim them to be world beaters?...And for your kind information the school that trains SF is the one based in Nahan and not in CIJWS when you talk about the Army and Marcos have theirs in Kerala(a new one is comming up in Goa).
> 
> And for you information in Operation Barras the SAS Sniper team was deployed for 7 days(they didnt move for those 7 days)..and you say NO SF CAN LAST 4 DAYS.


 

Firstly learn to read and saying shit I never said. I clearly said, they are among the best 'police' commando units. I also said most SF forces train to be deployed in the field for 4 days while regular COBRA training starts with 12 days and regular missions in the field can go on for a month and a half, clearly they are trained well enough to stay out for a long time and live off the Jungle, it's silly to be comparing SAS's 7 day mission to a COBRA's regular 2-3 week mission. I am not saying they are best SF unit in the world, however they do have very specialized skills and they certainly better trained than many SF units in the world. Even basic infantry untis are better trained than many SF units in the world.

CIJWS is not just a school for infantry, it is also a school for SF units and many inlcuding NSG, SFF, Marcos, COBRA, Garuds go there for jungle warfare training. All SF units in India go to various schools across the country for extensive training and opertaional deployments. Indian SF training can last between 3-4 years and during this period they train extensively in various facilities in desert, jungle, mountain and marine environments.



> CoBras were basically used against naxals. Do you have any info about operations/ success achieved by them? We hear 100 Grey Hounds/CRPF dead in a single raid by naxals (at least 2 incidents). How many naxals killed by CoBra?


 
COBRA are domestic police commando unit used against armed factions and rebels. COBRA is a relatively new unit (set-up since 2009) and by 2011, they had managed to kill 61 Naxals, mostly higher cadre and hardcore PWG fighters and they had by 2011 apprehended over 800 people. This number should be much higher now for both kills and arrests. COBRA has had very few deaths too, less than half a dozen have died, most died due to IEDs and a couple during encounters with a very large ground of Maoists.However, they have managed to kill many of the notorious maoist leaders in small targetted raids.

The greyhounds are higly experienced but had a massive loss in 2008, when an ill planned return by another state police force led to them being ambushed by hundreds of maoists with LMGS and RPGs, 32-35 died. However, lessons learned, deaths have been minimalized since this incident.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Immanuel said:


> Firstly learn to read and saying shit I never said. I clearly said, they are among the best 'police' commando units. I also said most SF forces train to be deployed in the field for 4 days while regular COBRA training starts with 12 days and regular missions in the field can go on for a month and a half, clearly they are trained well enough to stay out for a long time and live off the Jungle, it's silly to be comparing SAS's 7 day mission to a COBRA's regular 2-3 week mission. I am not saying they are best SF unit in the world, however they do have very specialized skills and they certainly better trained than many SF units in the world. Even basic infantry untis are better trained than many SF units in the world.
> 
> CIJWS is not just a school for infantry, it is also a school for SF units and many inlcuding NSG, SFF, Marcos, COBRA, Garuds go there for jungle warfare training. All SF units in India go to various schools across the country for extensive training and opertaional deployments. Indian SF training can last between 3-4 years and during this period they train extensively in various facilities in desert, jungle, mountain and marine environments.




Firstly and foremostly kindly explain what a SF is?Lets talk about the rest later.


And for me these are the worlds best Police units:-

*GSG9
*JUNGLAS 
*BOPE
*YAMAM
*RAID
*SWAT

What according to you is the difference between a Special Force and a Special Unit by the way?


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## N3oN

Umair Nawaz said:


> still 60hrs with more then 800+ vs 72hrs with just 9 commandos of SSG.
> 
> Kid our SSG is the most battle hardened. They carry ops every single day!
> 
> Anyways Waar is going to be release in UK in 17 jan.
> 
> Why not watch it and learn how real men fight.


 
Looks like real men were sleeping in. 1971 ..Hehehehe

On topic

What are the standard gears used by Marcos and why in some pics ther r not wearing anything substantial For there protection


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## Abingdonboy

vivINDIAN said:


> Grand Master Shifuji
> worlds best Commando trainer


 By NO measure is he the world's best commando trainer. He is a wannabe. He may be proficcent in hand-hand combat but that is about it. He has next to 0 training in weapon handling/firing and in ACTUAL COMBAT. Look through his pics, he has the PARA (SF) badge in some, their Maroon beret in others, the MARCOs trident in others and in others the NSG's insignia- having neither served in nor trained ANY of these units. He's a pathetic. Just look at what he's demonstrating- none of this is relevent in modern warfare and is nothing but posing.

I cannot tell you how much this fool annoys me. AFAIK though all CAPFs and state police units that had enlisted his services years back have subsequently seen how little value he adds to their training syllabus and he is no longer contracted by any govt/state entity.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Firstly and foremostly kindly explain what a SF is?Lets talk about the rest later.
> 
> 
> And for me these are the worlds best Police units:-
> 
> *GSG9
> *JUNGLAS
> *BOPE
> *YAMAM
> *RAID
> *SWAT
> 
> What according to you is the difference between a Special Force and a Special Unit by the way?


 Bro, to be fair to the CoBRAs, they are a fine unit who do a VERY hard and specific job. Their reason d'etre is jungle warfare, which in itself is one of the hardest forms of combat any police or military unit can train in. There's no doubt calling them SFs was SO WRONG, but they are a Special Unit.

I've already outlined across this thread that there are only THREE "true" SFs in India as designated by the GoI, all others are Specilised units of the CAPFs. When you say SWAT which State/City's SWAT team are you reffering to? LA's SWAT team?

Also I think one should include the FBI's HRT on the list- these guys are exceptionally good at what they do and mostly recruit from the US SOF community.


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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> By NO measure is he the world's best commando trainer. He is a wannabe. He may be proficcent in hand-hand combat but that is about it. He has next to 0 training in weapon handling/firing and in ACTUAL COMBAT. Look through his pics, he has the PARA (SF) badge in some, their Maroon beret in others, the MARCOs trident in others and in others the NSG's insignia- having neither served in nor trained ANY of these units. He's a pathetic. Just look at what he's demonstrating- none of this is relevent in modern warfare and is nothing but posing.
> 
> I cannot tell you how much this fool annoys me. AFAIK though all CAPFs and state police units that had enlisted his services years back have subsequently seen how little value he adds to their training syllabus and he is no longer contracted by any govt/state entity.
> 
> 
> Bro, to be fair to the CoBRAs, they are a fine unit who do a VERY hard and specific job. Their reason d'etre is jungle warfare, which in itself is one of the hardest forms of combat any police or military unit can train in. There's no doubt calling them SFs was SO WRONG, but they are a Special Unit.
> 
> I've already outlined across this thread that there are only THREE "true" SFs in India as designated by the GoI, all others are Specilised units of the CAPFs. When you say SWAT which State/City's SWAT team are you reffering to? LA's SWAT team?
> 
> Also I think one should include the FBI's HRT on the list- these guys are exceptionally good at what they do and mostly recruit from the US SOF community.




Is this thing any better?
Advanced Commando Combat System (ACCS)
Martial Arts of the World - Grandmaster Gallery - Prof. Dr. Deepak Rao. - Adcanced Commando Combat System


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## Immanuel

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Firstly and foremostly kindly explain what a SF is?Lets talk about the rest later.
> 
> And for me these are the worlds best Police units:-
> 
> *GSG9
> *JUNGLAS
> *BOPE
> *YAMAM
> *RAID
> *SWAT
> 
> What according to you is the difference between a Special Force and a Special Unit by the way?


 
There is no need to explain to you what a SF unit is, you will learn more while learning for your self.
GSG9/ RAID? J&K Police SOG handles more nutjobs on a weekly basis than a GSG9/ RAID unit ever does in a decade, just because we occasionally train with them doesn't mean GSG9 is as good.
J&K police SOG kills, Andhra Police Greyhounds capture & kill more well armed terrorist/ rebels than most forces in your list.
SWAT, GSG9 and RAID won't last a day in a maoist infested jungle, they are urban QR units. The forces that can possibly compare to the COBRA are the JUNGLAS and BOPE.

I have never said COBRA are SF, rather Specialist units of the Central Police forces, but in certain aspects their training is better than SF.


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## leebrath

for those who say indian SF are not comparable to ssg....
please go and get some water and a digene tablet because the thing that i am going to tell will nt get inside your throat and if also it gets inside u cant digest it for sure

Read about OPERATION EAGLE in 1971 war about SFF popularly called 'PHANTOMS OF CHITTAGONG'

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## Abingdonboy

Interesting:

"My life in the army", he confessed to a friend, " is doomed if I do not clear the probation". 

Clear it he did and was with the paltan for five wonderful years before volunteering for the Special Group - *the mavericks. *He soon became one of them. 
Biography


Didn't know that Special Group was informally called "The Mavericks"!


@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


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## vivINDIAN

Abingdonboy said:


> By NO measure is he the world's best commando trainer. He is a wannabe. He may be proficcent in hand-hand combat but that is about it. He has next to 0 training in weapon handling/firing and in ACTUAL COMBAT. Look through his pics, he has the PARA (SF) badge in some, their Maroon beret in others, the MARCOs trident in others and in others the NSG's insignia- having neither served in nor trained ANY of these units. He's a pathetic. Just look at what he's demonstrating- none of this is relevent in modern warfare and is nothing but posing.
> 
> I cannot tell you how much this fool annoys me. AFAIK though all CAPFs and state police units that had enlisted his services years back have subsequently seen how little value he adds to their training syllabus and he is no longer contracted by any govt/state entity.
> .


may be he just training them in hand to hand combat...i had seen his FB page some time ago so i posted ..


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## Unknowncommando

ARMY DAY PARADE

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## bloo

*GARUD COMMANDO FORCE*

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## Unknowncommando

BADASS AS ALWAYS

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## vk17

Good news!!!! very soon we COBRITES are gonna have Green Beret

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## Unknowncommando

National Security Guard (NSG) commandos 'in action' in full combat gear and weaponry in Chandigarh














*SPHP training programmes for NSG, December 2012*
The chief mission of the Indian paramilitary force, _National Security Guards_ (NSG), is counter-terrorism. Involved in training programmes with the GIGN in this area since 2009, the NSG wished to extend the scope of its cooperation with France to include close protection.

The visit of a former NSG director to Paris in 2012 and his meeting with his counterpart at the VIP Protection Service (SPHP) revealed our Indian partner’s interest in this subject. The current NSG director also reaffirmed his commitment to this training to the Internal Security Attaché (ISA) of the Embassy of France in India.

Two experts from the SPHP’s VIP Support Unit (GAHP) thus conducted a trainers’ training programme for fifteen NSG interns from 17 to 21 December 2012 at the Manesar camp in Haryana. The NSG extended a privileged welcome to this programme, which also benefited from the camp’s high-grade logistical support.

The maiden cooperation action organised in this area between our two countries, this training aimed to present French know-how in close protection to Indian partners.

The professionalism and the personality of the SPHP’s designated experts led to very positive feedback on the training.

The dialogue between the two services and expertise sharing through concrete scenarios yielded fruitful and promising exchanges.

The NSG authorities have already informed the ISA of their desire to pursue this well-appreciated exchange in 2013.


















STATIC FIRING EXERCISE

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## Unknowncommando



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## SRP

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=524471400983523

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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

desert warrior said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=524471400983523


Wow ... who are they ? which unit ?


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## jiki

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Wow ... who are they ? which unit ?


2nd PARA SF Tarmak007 is going to produce to some sort of a series on them,very soon "Story Of Predators" 
Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Soon on Tarmak007 | Story of Predators | 2PARA SF


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## Abingdonboy

jiki said:


> 2nd PARA SF Tarmak007 is going to produce to some sort of a series on them,very soon "Story Of Predators"
> Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Soon on Tarmak007 | Story of Predators | 2PARA SF


Looking foreword to it!!!


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## bloo

* Predators | SF rock stars share their daredevilry tales *













*By Anantha Krishnan M 
Express News Service
Bangalore:* Major Ajit Zala is 32 years old and he landed in Bangalore only a month back. The newly-married, soft-spoken soldier was wearing a black T-shirt with his unit’s insignia etched on the front. In the Army since 2003, Zala, hailing from Gujarat, is the only second officer of 2 PARA SF to have won the Kirti Chakra for his brave deed while undertaking a CI (Counter Insurgency) mission in Jammu and Kashmir. On the eve Republic Day, Zala was among the six bravehearts cleared by the 2 PARA SF (Special Forces), one of the elite units of Indian Army, for an exclusive interaction with _Express. _

All the six, currently posted in Bangalore, are the recipients of Gallantry Awards and they recall the tales that fetched them all the glory. 
*DARING MISSION: *“April 2008. I was posted at Lolab Valley in North Kashmir. We came to know that militants belonging to LeT and Al Badar groups beheaded two J&K policemen on April 2. The security apparatus got activated and our first mission was to locate the bodies, which we did after two days and on April 6, two squads were formed to capture the militants. We extensively used thermal images to scan the area, which was nothing but thick forest,” Zala says of his valiant deed, sans any expression on his face. 
Heavy downpour did make the team’s job tougher, but Zala says nothing could ever stop a Special Forces man to take his eye out of the mission. “We soon spotted some movements and there were around five to six people. We had to first confirm that they were not civilians and decided to divert the squads in two directions. I was part of the squad that waited below the forest track. I could see a sense of emergency being shown by the suspect group. While they came closer, I spotted their hidden weapons. Three militants were killed on the spot and another body was recovered the next day morning. Since we were lying down and firing, one militant jumped over us and escaped,” says Zala. 
Zala says it was the fearlessness factor that made him join the SF. “Later I fell in love with the discipline and patience aspects of SF. What makes the journey in SF different is that everything gets down to micro level detailing. Killing the enemy is just the miniscule part of our mission,” Zala adds. He was awarded the Kirti Charkra in 2009. 
*16 HOUR OPS: *Naib Subedar Hari A R is 39 years old and has completed 20 years with 2PARA SF now. Hailing from Thiruvananthapuram, Hari was awarded the Sena Medal in 2008. “I was posted in Kashmir’s Tharal village in 2007 and there were 5 teams from 2PARA SF. We had information from the police that three terrorists were hiding in a house in a nearby village, which was 25 minutes from our location. The police had already cordoned off the house. All of a sudden one man came out of the house and we thought he was surrendering. Soon he threw a grenade and we shot him down,” says Hari. He states that they resisted from using further fire as the area was densely populated. 
With the night setting in, Hari and his team decided to detonate the house using IEDs. “I was tasked to clear the house with my buddy. I executed the mission and killed one militant in the process. There were 2 LeT militants and one local Kashmiri terrorist. It was a 16-hour long operation and there were no causalities from our side,” says Hari, who treats being in SF a very lucky assignment. 
*WEDDED TO SF: *Subedar B B Thapa is 49 years old and he is all set to complete three decades serving the Army and says he has the energy and will to serve for another 10 more years. “I can’t imagine that I will have to retire soon. I am with the SF right from day one and it has become a way of life for me,” says Thapa, hailing from Dehradun and a Sena Medal recipient in 2002. He undertook the valiant act in January 2002 at Cheri village of Anantnag district. 
“We were two squads undertaking an ADP (Area Dominating Patrol). Our informants confirmed the presence of two militants in the area. It was around 2 pm. After spotting us, we asked them to lift their _pheran_, under which the terrorists usually hide their weapons. They started running. When I was about 100 metres closer to them, I confirmed that they were carrying weapons and fired killing one on the spot. The second terrorist took out the arms and started firing at us. He was hiding behind a tree,” Thapa says with his eyes all lit up. 
Thapa’s team had some difficulty in spotting the hidden terrorist since the colour of his dress matched that of the tree skin. “To and fro firing went on for some time and finally we got him as well,” says Thapa, who terms the job with 2PARA SF as inspiring. “The causality rate is very minimal with us,” he adds. 
*FIGHTING SNOW: *A recipient of Sena Medal in 2003, 47-year-old Subedar N K Thakur from Rampatti village of Madhubani district in Bihar, joined the Army in 1988. He was on duty in Gadole in Anantnag district when his team got a tip-off that some militants were moving freely in the village. His team of five started their operation in the night which was experiencing heavy snowfall. “We took the riverbed route and took shelter at the first floor of a shop. We had constant inputs coming in from an informer. As the day broke, we kept a close watch on the road beneath. First a woman came to buy some items from the shop and we knew that she was doing a recce. Later, another man came out and he too was doing some kind of surveillance,” says Thakur, with a serious look on his face. 
As the SF team waited patiently, they spotted a five member team walking on the road. “They were calm and composed. At a distance of about 100 metres, we had a doubt that they were terrorists and it was confirmed when they came closer and we could make out that they were carrying weapons. The rest is history and we killed four of them on the spot and one managed to escape. I killed two of them - one at 10 metre distance and another at 15 metre,” says Thakur. He is all praise for the SF’s philosophy of executing difficult missions with the help of small teams. 
*OUTSMARTING THE TERRORISTS: *Thirty-six-year-old Hawaldar Meghraj Kolhe is a native of Ahmednagar in Maharashtra and has been with the Indian Army for the last 17 years. He picked up a Sena Medal in 2003 and feels that SAF’s silent nature work makes it an absolutely inspiring unit. 
Meghraj was on his daily rounds in Kokernag area of Anantnag district with their camp being set up at a nearby village. “We got firm information that two terrorists might step into the area. We put a plan in place. Two squads with one carrying the light machine guns and another rocket launchers were formed and we cordoned off the suspected area. The terrorists got a wind of our move and they came out with a ‘smart plan’ that eventually flopped. We saw a ‘couple’ walking on the road and we asked them to stop. They acted as if they didn’t hear us and started walking ahead. One had the face completely covered and we wanted to ensure that they were not civilians. We watched patiently and kept on asking them to stop. They refused to heed to our orders and started running. I could see a weapon hidden under the pheran of one guy while the other fired at us. We threw grenades at them but they didn’t explode due to ice. Finally, I got on to a position and fired from the RL and killed both of them. One was disguised as a woman. It was another execution of team work,” says Meghraj. He says the SF guys don’t make much noise and all the work is often done very silently. 
*MOONLIGHT MISSION: *Naik Dinesh Kumar Yadav is 33 years old and he is a native of Sikar in Rajasthan. Fourteen years in Army, Dinesh’s daredevil act came in May 2007 at Tharal village of J&K. The same year he was awarded the Sena Medal too. Acting on information late in the night, Dinesh and his team was woken up from their sleep for the mission. Dinesh had already packed his bags to proceed on leave the next day. “We were told that some militants were holed up in a house next to the Dal Lake. When we approached the house, they started firing from all sides. I was hiding behind a tree and started crawling towards the house. It was around 4 am in the morning and the moon was shining bright. I waited patiently and suddenly saw a man jumping out of the house firing indiscriminately in all directions. I fired at him and he was down immediately,” says Dinesh. The buddy pair concept is something that Dinesh likes most about SF. “The bonding is outstanding. In SF, we script new definition for team spirit,” he adds. 
As we wound up the interview, the six-member team assembled at the rock point inside 2PARA SF base in Hebbal for a photo shoot. A huge insignia of 2PARA SF is painted at the centre of the rock, with the unit motto _Balidan (_Sacrifice). The rock stars of 2PARA SF were shining as usual in their smart casuals. 

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Predators | SF rock stars share their daredevilry tales

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## cloud_9



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## bloo

* Making of Predators: Taking a soldier beyond his physical and mental limits *

















*By Anantha Krishnan M
Express News Service*

*Bangalore:* The traffic on the road was slowly picking up the numbers. Most signal lights were still orange. Newspaper hawkers were exhibiting their speed skills in despatching sorted-out bundles. Soon after descending one of the Bangalore’s famous flyovers, you would find a simple gate painted in maroon. There are no boards. It is still darkness and gun-toting soldiers check the credentials to ensure that they are letting in the right man. 



*PART-II*
You have just entered a Special Forces (SF) unit of Indian Army, an elite group, operating out of one of the oldest erstwhile military farms in the country. It was around 5.45 am and the SF boys were all lining up for the roll call. “We are called Predators, a very fascinating nickname. In 15 minutes, we will begin the Predators' PT,” the Commanding Officer (CO) of the unit, who did not want to be named, told _Express_. At 6 am, with no sign of sunrise yet, the Predators began their PT sessions. “You cannot be a passenger in SF. It is a voluntary job, but we demand the best out of the boys. We push them beyond their limits,” says the CO. The training is split into three modules: physical, skill (basic/ advance) and collective.
*A volunteer assignment: *Bangalore’s chilly weather was definitely making the PT session tougher with longer time needed for the body to warm up. “Our main job is to convert a soldier into a SF operative. We have a three-month probation capsule, which is really tough. We also focus the knowledge levels of the solider. Only soldiers can volunteer to join SF, and we don't recruit civilians directly,” says the CO. During the probation period, there’s no difference between an officer and a soldier. A solider has to go through a mutual assessment process, Hell’s Week and weapon training. Hell’s Week is the most-dreaded seven-day training period, packed with modules that will make the faint-hearted give up the SF dream. “Only 10 out of 40 are finally selected. The best of the best are earmarked for Special Operations. We also give exposure to the training patters of armies of other countries as well,” he said.
The rejection rate in SF is relatively high as the selected soldiers, who are physically good, mentally sharp and really intelligent, need to be a complete team players as well. "Last year, we had 12 officers who volunteered to be in SF and only three fit the bill after the probation. The selection process happens every quarter and there are no set numbers that come in. Some times, all the 10 people who join get rejected. It depends on the quality of the batch received. On an average 30-40 per cent is our selection rate," the CO said.
*Intensity matters: *When asked about the minimum height a solider requires to become an SF operative, an officer posted at the unit said, laughing: "It is not the size that matters, but the intensity that counts in a fight. The acceptable standard set by all recruiting agencies throughout India for normal soldiers is our limit as well (157.5 cm). And the hill tribes get further relaxation."
The most unique part of the training is the Tyre PT, with huge trucks need to be lifted by a buddy pair a number times. There are no set rules that if a man does 'X' number of push ups, he becomes a SF guy. There are certain mandatory tests specific to his arm strength (vertical rope, horizontal rope) which he needs to pass. A soldier below 30 years needs to run 5 km with battle load (rifle + 3.2 kg load) in 23 minutes. Two minutes are added for those between 30-40 age and five minutes for those above 45 years. 
A soldier need to sprint 60 meters with same load in less than 13 seconds and also climb 10 meters vertical rope and traverse a horizontal rope. He also needs to clear a nine-foot ditch in battle gear. Finally, he needs to run 20 km with rifle and 18.5 kg load in less than 2 hours 20 minutes; 30 km in less than 3 hours and 40 min and 40 km in less than 5 hours and 40 minutes to fulfil some of the selection criteria. 
*Advanced firing styles: *Once selected, a soldier gets advanced training in urban operations, room intervention and weapon firing. Even the physical training modes gradually get on to the toughest grades. While the officials refused to talk about the weapon training sessions, soldiers who have passed the SF route said that the most-advanced style of firing is taught. Training is given in firing with both hands, and using different kinds of weapons simultaneously. An SF operative is trained extensively on rifles, pistols, snipers, LMGs, MMGs, ATGMs and missiles and can even strip his weapon blind folded.
An SF squad roughly constitutes six members and they include specialists in demolition, navigation, communication, medicine and weapon, with the sixth man being the commander with outstanding leadership qualities. “Our modes of insertions vary from a freefall from an aircraft, para jumping, slithering and even by sea route. We also need to sharpen our language and culture skills,” says an officer. 
*Romancing the SF: *Lt Ankur Sharma, hailing from Solan in Himachal Pradesh, has just begun his probation period. The 23-year-old from Corps of Signal holds a B Tech in Telecommunication and IT. “In my college days I was really good in running and after joining the Army, I was attracted towards the SF as I found them physically solid. If I get through, I am hoping to get good exposure,’ says Ankur, whose father is in the textile industry and mother looking after the household chores.
Gunner Veeranna M is from Karnataka’s Dharwad and comes from a family of farmers. He has 3 brothers and two sisters. “I have always been a fearless guy. I want to put my best foot forward and see if I can convert my brave instincts into getting an SF assignment. It is tough, but I think I will make it,” says Veeranna. Similarly, Lt S Shaym, the 22-year-old from North-East, believes that being in SF is the best. “Best equipment and best men around. My ultimate dream is to become a good Army officer,” says Shyam.
*Non-stop training: *Every SF soldier needs to be proficient in martial arts and they are trained in PKTE, a Pilipino-based aggressive self-defence form. Once the probation period is cleared, a solider will have to undertake para jumps once a year. These jumps are run in Hoskotekere, near Bangalore and also in Central India. “Once, you clear the probation period successfully, you earn the right to wear the Maroon Beret cap. “It’s a great sense of pride wearing the Maroon Beret. Not all soldiers are lucky to have this. The units _izath_ (pride) becomes part of your life, because only you would know how much you had to push the body to earn the Maroon Beret,” says the CO.
Training is one thing which never stops in SF. After successful completion of basic and mandatory courses, individuals are further put through a selection procedure for further specialist training in High Altitude warfare, Jungle warfare, Covert and clandestine operations, hostage rescue apart from other specialist operations. "The philosophy of the training is 'Specialisation to the Core.' The wastage ratio is very high in SF because professional requirements are very high and it is a well known fact that SF cannot be mass produced. They are the chosen few, because they are the Predators," adds the CO.
As the boys assembled at the PT ground in the evening for their scheduled games, the setting sun spewed some dying strokes straight onto a small hillock inside the military base. The hillock had a message painted on it, which read: Skill x Will x Drill = Kill.
The traffic on the flyover reminded that you will need only one gear to drive, making a mockery of some of the most advanced driving systems inside your car. It was pitch dark once again and, the Predators were seen slowly disappearing into the darkness.

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Making of Predators: Taking a soldier beyond his physical and mental limits

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## Koovie

Any more pics of NSG commandos on duty during R-Day this year?


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## cloud_9

Too much of Reposting

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## bloo

Watch the 3rd Parachute regiment march this 65th Republic day; from 1:20:00.


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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> * Making of Predators: Taking a soldier beyond his physical and mental limits *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *By Anantha Krishnan M
> Express News Service*
> 
> *Bangalore:* The traffic on the road was slowly picking up the numbers. Most signal lights were still orange. Newspaper hawkers were exhibiting their speed skills in despatching sorted-out bundles. Soon after descending one of the Bangalore’s famous flyovers, you would find a simple gate painted in maroon. There are no boards. It is still darkness and gun-toting soldiers check the credentials to ensure that they are letting in the right man.
> 
> 
> 
> *PART-II*
> You have just entered a Special Forces (SF) unit of Indian Army, an elite group, operating out of one of the oldest erstwhile military farms in the country. It was around 5.45 am and the SF boys were all lining up for the roll call. “We are called Predators, a very fascinating nickname. In 15 minutes, we will begin the Predators' PT,” the Commanding Officer (CO) of the unit, who did not want to be named, told _Express_. At 6 am, with no sign of sunrise yet, the Predators began their PT sessions. “You cannot be a passenger in SF. It is a voluntary job, but we demand the best out of the boys. We push them beyond their limits,” says the CO. The training is split into three modules: physical, skill (basic/ advance) and collective.
> *A volunteer assignment: *Bangalore’s chilly weather was definitely making the PT session tougher with longer time needed for the body to warm up. “Our main job is to convert a soldier into a SF operative. We have a three-month probation capsule, which is really tough. We also focus the knowledge levels of the solider. Only soldiers can volunteer to join SF, and we don't recruit civilians directly,” says the CO. During the probation period, there’s no difference between an officer and a soldier. A solider has to go through a mutual assessment process, Hell’s Week and weapon training. Hell’s Week is the most-dreaded seven-day training period, packed with modules that will make the faint-hearted give up the SF dream. “Only 10 out of 40 are finally selected. The best of the best are earmarked for Special Operations. We also give exposure to the training patters of armies of other countries as well,” he said.
> The rejection rate in SF is relatively high as the selected soldiers, who are physically good, mentally sharp and really intelligent, need to be a complete team players as well. "Last year, we had 12 officers who volunteered to be in SF and only three fit the bill after the probation. The selection process happens every quarter and there are no set numbers that come in. Some times, all the 10 people who join get rejected. It depends on the quality of the batch received. On an average 30-40 per cent is our selection rate," the CO said.
> *Intensity matters: *When asked about the minimum height a solider requires to become an SF operative, an officer posted at the unit said, laughing: "It is not the size that matters, but the intensity that counts in a fight. The acceptable standard set by all recruiting agencies throughout India for normal soldiers is our limit as well (157.5 cm). And the hill tribes get further relaxation."
> The most unique part of the training is the Tyre PT, with huge trucks need to be lifted by a buddy pair a number times. There are no set rules that if a man does 'X' number of push ups, he becomes a SF guy. There are certain mandatory tests specific to his arm strength (vertical rope, horizontal rope) which he needs to pass. A soldier below 30 years needs to run 5 km with battle load (rifle + 3.2 kg load) in 23 minutes. Two minutes are added for those between 30-40 age and five minutes for those above 45 years.
> A soldier need to sprint 60 meters with same load in less than 13 seconds and also climb 10 meters vertical rope and traverse a horizontal rope. He also needs to clear a nine-foot ditch in battle gear. Finally, he needs to run 20 km with rifle and 18.5 kg load in less than 2 hours 20 minutes; 30 km in less than 3 hours and 40 min and 40 km in less than 5 hours and 40 minutes to fulfil some of the selection criteria.
> *Advanced firing styles: *Once selected, a soldier gets advanced training in urban operations, room intervention and weapon firing. Even the physical training modes gradually get on to the toughest grades. While the officials refused to talk about the weapon training sessions, soldiers who have passed the SF route said that the most-advanced style of firing is taught. Training is given in firing with both hands, and using different kinds of weapons simultaneously. An SF operative is trained extensively on rifles, pistols, snipers, LMGs, MMGs, ATGMs and missiles and can even strip his weapon blind folded.
> An SF squad roughly constitutes six members and they include specialists in demolition, navigation, communication, medicine and weapon, with the sixth man being the commander with outstanding leadership qualities. “Our modes of insertions vary from a freefall from an aircraft, para jumping, slithering and even by sea route. We also need to sharpen our language and culture skills,” says an officer.
> *Romancing the SF: *Lt Ankur Sharma, hailing from Solan in Himachal Pradesh, has just begun his probation period. The 23-year-old from Corps of Signal holds a B Tech in Telecommunication and IT. “In my college days I was really good in running and after joining the Army, I was attracted towards the SF as I found them physically solid. If I get through, I am hoping to get good exposure,’ says Ankur, whose father is in the textile industry and mother looking after the household chores.
> Gunner Veeranna M is from Karnataka’s Dharwad and comes from a family of farmers. He has 3 brothers and two sisters. “I have always been a fearless guy. I want to put my best foot forward and see if I can convert my brave instincts into getting an SF assignment. It is tough, but I think I will make it,” says Veeranna. Similarly, Lt S Shaym, the 22-year-old from North-East, believes that being in SF is the best. “Best equipment and best men around. My ultimate dream is to become a good Army officer,” says Shyam.
> *Non-stop training: *Every SF soldier needs to be proficient in martial arts and they are trained in PKTE, a Pilipino-based aggressive self-defence form. Once the probation period is cleared, a solider will have to undertake para jumps once a year. These jumps are run in Hoskotekere, near Bangalore and also in Central India. “Once, you clear the probation period successfully, you earn the right to wear the Maroon Beret cap. “It’s a great sense of pride wearing the Maroon Beret. Not all soldiers are lucky to have this. The units _izath_ (pride) becomes part of your life, because only you would know how much you had to push the body to earn the Maroon Beret,” says the CO.
> Training is one thing which never stops in SF. After successful completion of basic and mandatory courses, individuals are further put through a selection procedure for further specialist training in High Altitude warfare, Jungle warfare, Covert and clandestine operations, hostage rescue apart from other specialist operations. "The philosophy of the training is 'Specialisation to the Core.' The wastage ratio is very high in SF because professional requirements are very high and it is a well known fact that SF cannot be mass produced. They are the chosen few, because they are the Predators," adds the CO.
> As the boys assembled at the PT ground in the evening for their scheduled games, the setting sun spewed some dying strokes straight onto a small hillock inside the military base. The hillock had a message painted on it, which read: Skill x Will x Drill = Kill.
> The traffic on the flyover reminded that you will need only one gear to drive, making a mockery of some of the most advanced driving systems inside your car. It was pitch dark once again and, the Predators were seen slowly disappearing into the darkness.
> 
> Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Making of Predators: Taking a soldier beyond his physical and mental limits


Now that's an awesome article! 


Some good details on the SF selection process that have not been officially stated up to now:




> “Our main job is to convert a soldier into a SF operative. We have a three-month probation capsule, which is really tough. We also focus the knowledge levels of the solider. Only soldiers can volunteer to join SF, and we don't recruit civilians directly,” says the CO. During the probation period, there’s no difference between an officer and a soldier. A solider has to go through a mutual assessment process, Hell’s Week and weapon training. Hell’s Week is the most-dreaded seven-day training period, packed with modules that will make the faint-hearted give up the SF dream.



@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR you'll like this one


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## bloo

* Making of Predators | Hell Week: Most-dreaded training capsule for SF soldiers *










*PART III
By Anantha Krishnan M
Express News Service
Bangalore:* For every solider dreaming to become a Special Forces (SF) operative will have to cross one of the most dreaded training modules spread across seven days. The Hell Week, embedded towards the fag end of the three-month probation period, aims to put a soldier under acute stress mode. A solider gets to sleep for only three hours during the entire week.
During a visit to the SF unit in Bangalore, an official told _Express_ that Hell Week ascertains the mental and psychological endurance levels of a soldier. “It is an intense pressure checking mechanism, specially designed by experts. The main feature is sleep deprivation for days together, though you will get to sleep for a couple of hours, again the schedule will be decided by the instructor. There’s restriction on the food pattern and you can eat only what is provided and when it is provided,” he said.
During the Hell Week, a solider is also assessed on the level of training in ambush, camouflage, concealment, surveillance and firing. “In addition, there’s an IQ test, written assignment, night PT and psychological assessment. Every five to 10 minutes, the physical and mental stress levels are changed and alternated. The instructors too keep changing every six hours,” the official said. Soldiers are tested for their patience levels and also their ability to perform under heightened stress conditions. All these training patters are done with a stand-by medical team and ambulance kept ready 24 x7.
The soldiers are also made to swim with hands and legs tied and even put into mud and water again and again. “The experienced divers keep a close watch on these exercises. There’s a surprise element in every aspects of the training during the Hell Week. You will never know what the next mission is and when it would get over. The probation ends with this seven-day unforgettable session,” the official said.
Post Hell Week, a solider gets to know about the limits of stress his mind and body can withstand. “A rare sense of belief sets that there’s nothing impossible for a man. It also helps to know each and every part of the body better. The confidence will reach unbelievable levels. In SF, we look for the right man for the right job,” says the official. The concept of Hell Week is extremely popular among the Navy SEAL selection and training in the United States.
There are many who give up the dream of becoming a SF operative during the Hell’s Week. And, there are many others, who complete the final seven-day module and yet not get selected. “Our motto is Balidan, means Sacrifice. Our motto says it all,” says the official.

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Making of Predators | Hell Week: Most-dreaded training capsule for SF soldiers

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## bloo

* Making of Predators | Vital installations, buildings in South India under complete SF radar *













PART-IV
* By Anantha Krishnan M | Express News Service
Bangalore:*The Special Forces (SF) unit of the Indian Army based in Bangalore has quietly mapped all big government and private establishments in South India to act quickly and effectively in case of a terror strike. “We are ready to take off at very short notice and can be deployed in any part of South India,” its Commanding Officer, who did not wish to be identified, told _Express_.
Operating from a 180-acre erstwhile military farm, the unit is in regular touch with the Internal Security Division (ISD), Karnataka’s counter-terrorist police unit. The Special Forces unit was established in Bangalore five years ago in the wake of the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, which claimed 164 lives.
Over these five years, the unit has prepared dossiers with detailed layouts of every major government, private and commercial establishment in the four southern states. These are stored in the form of satellite images, photos and maps at the unit. A few years ago, the SF team had done a mock drill on the 13th floor of Bangalore’s ITPL after entering the building through the 16th floor. It executed another mock drill at a Wipro unit.
In 2011, the unit collaborated with NSG Commandos and conducted security training at a Taj hotel. In 2011, the unit went on a UN mission to South Sudan. “Our boys have done recce missions at almost all places in Bangalore which are VAVPs,” said the CO. In army terminology, VAVP stands for Vital Area, Vital Point. The unit has trained with the ISD and the two are geared to work together on specific inputs. “Mysore is also on our radar,” he said. Force-1, the elite special commando force of Maharashtra designed on the lines of NSG, was trained by the SF unit, while Karnataka’s ISD had sought its help. 

An Army aviation unit using advanced light helicopter Dhruv makes regular visits to the unit. The Indian Air Force station in Yelahanka is the nearest air strip available for the SF to launch major missions.
*Man Behind the Machine Counts: *“Our main aim is to make the weapon and the man one identity. He needs to walk, run, sleep and jump with his equipment. It should be a part of his life. Finally, it is the man behind the machine that counts,” he said. SF operatives have many weapons of foreign origin which can be used for a variety of operations, ranging from a surgical strike to annihilation of a target as big as a football field.
Following the Mumbai attacks in 2008, the Central government created NSG hubs in Chennai, Hyderabad, Kolkota and Mumbai, while Bangalore got the SF unit. Bangalore’s increasing traffic has been the unit’s biggest enemy, and it seeks special clearances every time it carries out a routine exercise.
*(Series concluded)*

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Making of Predators | Vital installations, buildings in South India under complete SF radar

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Immanuel said:


> There is no need to explain to you what a SF unit is, you will learn more while learning for your self.
> GSG9/ RAID? J&K Police SOG handles more nutjobs on a weekly basis than a GSG9/ RAID unit ever does in a decade, just because we occasionally train with them doesn't mean GSG9 is as good.
> J&K police SOG kills, Andhra Police Greyhounds capture & kill more well armed terrorist/ rebels than most forces in your list.
> SWAT, GSG9 and RAID won't last a day in a maoist infested jungle, they are urban QR units. The forces that can possibly compare to the COBRA are the JUNGLAS and BOPE.
> 
> I have never said COBRA are SF, rather Specialist units of the Central Police forces, but in certain aspects their training is better than SF.


No their training is not better than SF and you are again comparing them with SF despite claiming to not.And listen man for me and many others like me even the Ghatak of G/R IA can be more than a match for you self appointed SF.

Dont degrade the term SF.Hats off to them for their sacrifice but they are no where near a SF.



Abingdonboy said:


> Interesting:
> 
> "My life in the army", he confessed to a friend, " is doomed if I do not clear the probation".
> 
> Clear it he did and was with the paltan for five wonderful years before volunteering for the Special Group - *the mavericks. *He soon became one of them.
> Biography
> 
> 
> Didn't know that Special Group was informally called "The Mavericks"!
> 
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



...and the Vikas Regtt.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Now that's an awesome article!
> 
> 
> Some good details on the SF selection process that have not been officially stated up to now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR you'll like this one



I can write much much much more on the Hells week and my friends experience but my hands are tied..

What i can share and what the writer didnt share is that during the probation towards the later part a highly trained SF squad carries out an ambush on the recruits and those who are caught are tortured like hell and if you get caught you have very less chances of passing even if you dont share your secrets with the enemy units(ambush party).

Rejection rate is pretty high..last year during one such cource only 1 officer got selected from a batch of 5-6 young fit officers.(all others except 1 had fracture)

And i guess someone was asking that what does a SF operator earn.It is close to 50,000INR or 84,000Pakistani Rupees...This is like the lower most salary of a soldier.Officers earn much more.

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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS







NSG




SPG


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## bloo

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I can write much much much more on the Hells week and my friends experience but my hands are tied..
> 
> What i can share and what the writer didnt share is that during the probation towards the later part a highly trained SF squad carries out an ambush on the recruits and those who are caught are tortured like hell and if you get caught you have very less chances of passing even if you dont share your secrets with the enemy units(ambush party).
> 
> Rejection rate is pretty high..last year during one such cource only 1 officer got selected from a batch of 5-6 young fit officers.(all others except 1 had fracture)
> 
> And i guess someone was asking that what does a SF operator earn.It is close to 50,000INR or 84,000Pakistani Rupees...This is like the lower most salary of a soldier.Officers earn much more.



I was seeing this BUDS video and the to-be-SEALS were subjected to room inspections and stringent search for other minor infractions, and if they fell short they wud go for sand rolls, night runs, pushups, et cetra.
Does this also happen with our SF?


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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> I was seeing this BUDS video and the to-be-SEALS were subjected to room inspections and stringent search for other minor infractions, and if they fell short they wud go for sand rolls, night runs, pushups, et cetra.
> Does this also happen with our SF?


OF COURSE! This is basic stuff. Even grunts in the IA get that kind of treatment (room searches, inspections, sand rolling) during basic.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I can write much much much more on the Hells week and my friends experience but my hands are tied..
> 
> What i can share and what the writer didnt share is that during the probation towards the later part a highly trained SF squad carries out an ambush on the recruits and those who are caught are tortured like hell and if you get caught you have very less chances of passing even if you dont share your secrets with the enemy units(ambush party).
> 
> Rejection rate is pretty high..last year during one such cource only 1 officer got selected from a batch of 5-6 young fit officers.(all others except 1 had fracture)


Would be good if you could do a write up at some point bro!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bloo said:


> I was seeing this BUDS video and the to-be-SEALS were subjected to room inspections and stringent search for other minor infractions, and if they fell short they wud go for sand rolls, night runs, pushups, et cetra.
> Does this also happen with our SF?



This happens in NDA and IMA.This is pretty basic stuff mate.

I will tell you what happens in SF...When you are caught during probation by the enemy forces(ambush party) you are stripped all of your clothes and locked in a small room full of mosquitoes all night.The best part is when they bite your private parts.It should be pretty obvious that during the hells week you are not given a single meal or a bottle of water.You are thrashed like hell...you become a punching bag of well trained operators.Every type of torture technique is used except those which leave a permamnent mark.Getting abused and thrashed when your last meal was 3 days ago is not cool.Infact,many soldiers quit even after qualifiying fearing the tough constant phase of training in the Para..Ya this is true.I was soo shocked that how can people quit after qualifiying,It is because they know that this is not gonna stop and will continue all life.It is how the life in SF is.

Some people in India think SF is some kind of a joke and wearing cool camo and carrying imported Israeli weapons makes them a SF operator but sadly this is not true.These guys posting their pics on Facebook is not what a SF operator does.Para SF operators dont carry mobiles for 4-6 months in a go.Avoiding every mothafcking spying that can be done on them.And this is where your discipline seperates the real operators from the wannabes.

'''A SF operator is a SF operator even when armed with a bow and arrow...a wannabe is a wannabee even with a Tavor.'''

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This happens in NDA and IMA.This is pretty basic stuff mate.
> 
> I will tell you what happens in SF...When you are caught during probation by the enemy forces(ambush party) you are stripped all of your clothes and locked in a small room full of mosquitoes all night.The best part is when they bite your private parts.It should be pretty obvious that during the hells week you are not given a single meal or a bottle of water.You are thrashed like hell...you become a punching bag of well trained operators.Every type of torture technique is used except those which leave a permamnent mark.Getting abused and thrashed when your last meal was 3 days ago is not cool.Infact,many soldiers quit even after qualifiying fearing the tough constant phase of training in the Para..Ya this is true.I was soo shocked that how can people quit after qualifiying,It is because they know that this is not gonna stop and will continue all life.It is how the life in SF is.
> 
> Some people in India think SF is some kind of a joke and wearing cool camo and carrying imported Israeli weapons makes them a SF operator but sadly this is not true.These guys posting their pics on Facebook is not what a SF operator does.Para SF operators dont carry mobiles for 4-6 months in a go.Avoiding every mothafcking spying that can be done on them.And this is where your discipline seperates the real operators from the wannabes.
> 
> '''A SF operator is a SF operator even when armed with a bow and arrow...a wannabe is a wannabee even with a Tavor.'''


I assuming that last portion is aimed at the Garuds :p. 

And yeah, it's an ignorance to the Indian SFs that breeds inaccuracies about them. The fact is the SF prefer to stay quiet and out of the lime light (the IN's and IA's SF that is). 


Some of the stuff these guys do would blow the average civilian's mind!


I think the SF should take it upon themselves to get their stories out their though. Secrecy is all well and good and I understand it but a few de-classified mission reports making their way to the general public wouldn't hurt.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Would be good if you could do a write up at some point bro!



Mate,Trust me i cant.The info is really sensitive.It is a really sensitive base where the toughest probation is carried out.It has been 7 years but i am still at the same place where i was 7 years ago..I have no clue about SG.Except that i have info on most SF units of the IA and their training.I keep sharing what i can...rest is not good to be out in the open.

I am shooting in the dark but if i gotta write a book on Para i would say that SG to Para is what SEAL Team 6 is to the USN and i got a strong feeling that SG is based in kashmir with strong possibilites of operatrors in Azad Kashmir.This is just a guess knowing the nature of work the SF does in Kashmir.In the past 15 years close to 100 Pakistani soldiers(just a guess) have been either beheaded or killed by the PARA SF(revenge ops)..so i think SG should be 1 step ahead of the game otherwise why make a special unit.

Now the biggest wonder is how is the insertion and extration carried out.I think it is pretty safe to imagine that SG has infiltrated Hafiz Saed's terrorist module.And i think the Pakistanis are right when they say that the RAWs Jalalabad base handles Indian SF operators.Earlier i used to think that RAW would be doing it but RAW doesnt have the best operators for this.The Army has the cream of the crop..and when normal SF is based in Kashmir that too having 2000 SF operators why would you need SG??.It is simple..its becuase you want to infiltrate the infiltrators.

This is my theory Abingdon..What do you think?

P.S-This is my guess based on my experience of 7 years trying to study SF operations.This was not told to me by any SF operator.



Abingdonboy said:


> I assuming that last portion is aimed at the Garuds :p.
> 
> And yeah, it's an ignorance to the Indian SFs that breeds inaccuracies about them. The fact is the SF prefer to stay quiet and out of the lime light (the IN's and IA's SF that is).
> 
> 
> Some of the stuff these guys do would blow the average civilian's mind!
> 
> 
> I think the SF should take it upon themselves to get their stories out their though. Secrecy is all well and good and I understand it but a few de-classified mission reports making their way to the general public wouldn't hurt.



I have respect for Garuds now.They are doing a good job.It was aimed at COBRA.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mate,Trust me i cant.The info is really sensitive.It is a really sensitive base where the toughest probation is carried out.It has been 7 years but i am still at the same place where i was 7 years ago..I have no clue about SG.Except that i have info on most SF units of the IA and their training.I keep sharing what i can...rest is not good to be out in the open.
> 
> I am shooting in the dark but if i gotta write a book on Para i would say that SG to Para is what SEAL Team 6 is to the USN and i got a strong feeling that SG is based in kashmir with strong possibilites of operatrors in Azad Kashmir.This is just a guess knowing the nature of work the SF does in Kashmir.In the past 15 years close to 100 Pakistani soldiers(just a guess) have been either beheaded or killed by the PARA SF(revenge ops)..so i think SG should be 1 step ahead of the game otherwise why make a special unit.
> 
> Now the biggest wonder is how is the insertion and extration carried out.I think it is pretty safe to imagine that SG has infiltrated Hafiz Saed's terrorist module.And i think the Pakistanis are right when they say that the RAWs Jalalabad base handles Indian SF operators.Earlier i used to think that RAW would be doing it but RAW doesnt have the best operators for this.The Army has the cream of the crop..and when normal SF is based in Kashmir that too having 2000 SF operators why would you need SG??.It is simple..its becuase you want to infiltrate the infiltrators.
> 
> This is my theory Abingdon..What do you think?
> 
> P.S-This is my guess based on my experience of 7 years trying to study SF operations.This was not told to me by any SF operator.
> 
> .





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have respect for Garuds now.They are doing a good job.It was aimed at COBRA.


Ah good mate, I was going to have a mini rant at you if you had said yes , I'm glad we're on the same page about them (the Garuds). Well let the CoBRAs do what they want I guess, they do deliver and they work hard, they aren't SF's though- as we've both separately pointed out. The CRPF's SOPs on sharing media of their units is obviously far more lenient than the Indian Mil's where there is an effective ban on all of it- you can get into some DEEP,DEEP brown stuff for even posing in your uniform in pics that make their way onto social media sights. I have heard this first hand.





Wrt SG, I think you're not far off. What I would say is that SG work directly for RAW so their operations are very much intelligence led and are more strategic than perhaps the PARA (SF) working in JK who act as the "heavy guns" in the valley i.e. swooping in and acting as QRTs. I'd say SG are a mix between the CIA's SAD and the US Army's Delta. I have heard it for a fact that SG are on the ground in various countries in the region working on certain activities- if you ever hear of a terrorist just being dumped/presented at an Indian border then it will be SG doing this work, it doesn't just magically happen. 


I couldn't comment on whether they were working in Afghanistan, I have no doubt RAW is present in Jalalbad- no doubt whatsoever. But I don't know what SG could be doing their because they aren't handlers of assets, they are simply "shooters"- RAW has their own handlers.


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## Omega007

@COLD.....bro,you should seriously think about writting a book on Indian SFs at some point of time.

By the way,can the Ghataks be termed as SF or they are more akin to shock infantry units??And don't you guys think that the number of Ghatak troopers should be increased to at least 2 companies/battalion from the present 1-2 platoon/battalion??


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## Abingdonboy

Omega007 said:


> @COLD.....bro,you should seriously think about writting a book on Indian SFs at some point of time.
> 
> By the way,can the Ghataks be termed as SF or they are more akin to shock infantry units??And don't you guys think that the number of Ghatak troopers should be increased to at least 2 companies/battalion from the present 1-2 platoon/battalion??


No, they are NOT SFs. Using Western lexicon, though, one could describe than as "Special Operations Capable" Infantry.


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## Omega007

Abingdonboy said:


> No, they are NOT SFs. Using Western lexicon, though, one could describe than as "Special Operations Capable" Infantry.



OK,I get it,like the US Army Rangers.But their numbers should be increased though IMHO.


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## Abingdonboy

Omega007 said:


> OK,I get it,like the US Army Rangers.But their numbers should be increased though IMHO.


Somewhat yes. I think maybe in a few years increase the number, first let the existing units get the kit they've got on order.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Ah good mate, I was going to have a mini rant at you if you had said yes , I'm glad we're on the same page about them (the Garuds). Well let the CoBRAs do what they want I guess, they do deliver and they work hard, they aren't SF's though- as we've both separately pointed out. The CRPF's SOPs on sharing media of their units is obviously far more lenient than the Indian Mil's where there is an effective ban on all of it- you can get into some DEEP,DEEP brown stuff for even posing in your uniform in pics that make their way onto social media sights. I have heard this first hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrt SG, I think you're not far off. What I would say is that SG work directly for RAW so their operations are very much intelligence led and are more strategic than perhaps the PARA (SF) working in JK who act as the "heavy guns" in the valley i.e. swooping in and acting as QRTs. I'd say SG are a mix between the CIA's SAD and the US Army's Delta. I have heard it for a fact that SG are on the ground in various countries in the region working on certain activities- if you ever hear of a terrorist just being dumped/presented at an Indian border then it will be SG doing this work, it doesn't just magically happen.
> 
> 
> I couldn't comment on whether they were working in Afghanistan, I have no doubt RAW is present in Jalalbad- no doubt whatsoever. But I don't know what SG could be doing their because they aren't handlers of assets, they are simply "shooters"- RAW has their own handlers.


Mate,in the last operation RAW did in Pakistan it was near the outskirts of the city of Lahore or Karachi(not sure) where they shot 2 or 3 pakistanis believed to involved in terrorism against India.The best part is that these guys tortured them before shooting them..Now torturing is an art of the skilled that too before shooting which means they must have some info taken out.

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## bloo

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This happens in NDA and IMA.This is pretty basic stuff mate.
> 
> I will tell you what happens in SF...When you are caught during probation by the enemy forces(ambush party) you are stripped all of your clothes and locked in a small room full of mosquitoes all night.The best part is when they bite your private parts.It should be pretty obvious that during the hells week you are not given a single meal or a bottle of water.You are thrashed like hell...you become a punching bag of well trained operators.Every type of torture technique is used except those which leave a permamnent mark.Getting abused and thrashed when your last meal was 3 days ago is not cool.Infact,many soldiers quit even after qualifiying fearing the tough constant phase of training in the Para..Ya this is true.I was soo shocked that how can people quit after qualifiying,It is because they know that this is not gonna stop and will continue all life.It is how the life in SF is.
> 
> Some people in India think SF is some kind of a joke and wearing cool camo and carrying imported Israeli weapons makes them a SF operator but sadly this is not true.These guys posting their pics on Facebook is not what a SF operator does.Para SF operators dont carry mobiles for 4-6 months in a go.Avoiding every mothafcking spying that can be done on them.And this is where your discipline seperates the real operators from the wannabes.
> 
> '''A SF operator is a SF operator even when armed with a bow and arrow...a wannabe is a wannabee even with a Tavor.'''



Thanks aviator, my faith in them had been shaken after coming across a few yellow journalistic articles.

*Navy SEALs BUDS Training*


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## bloo




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> @COLD.....bro,you should seriously think about writting a book on Indian SFs at some point of time.
> 
> By the way,can the Ghataks be termed as SF or they are more akin to shock infantry units??And don't you guys think that the number of Ghatak troopers should be increased to at least 2 companies/battalion from the present 1-2 platoon/battalion??



I will take it as a compliment.Thank you.I am 23 and i have a long way to go for that.

The Commanding Officers rate them as SF only but they are not.
Well..the size wont be increased but they will get equipped like Para SF in the near future.Army is short of budget to equip 2 companies and they are specialised troops.

We should infact reduce the number of operators and concentrate on better equipping them.



bloo said:


> Thanks aviator, my faith in them had been shaken after coming across a few yellow journalistic articles.



In who?..I am sorry i am online after 2 weeks kindly share the articles with me.

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## Omega007

Sorry for,an off topic comment but I think IA should seriously consider to set up a dedicated sniper training school.They can take help from US Army if it is needed.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Sorry for,an off topic comment but I think IA should seriously consider to set up a dedicated sniper training school.They can take help from US Army if it is needed.



That is not off topic but this is what i thought for years.Army has a Sniper School in Madhya Pradesh and good training is imparted there.But i think we should train with US Army in this.Moreoever the use of snipers in operations has only increased in the last decade with now IA using Snipers on helis targetting terrorists.

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## bloo

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I will take it as a compliment.Thank you.I am 23 and i have a long way to go for that.
> 
> The Commanding Officers rate them as SF only but they are not.
> Well..the size wont be increased but they will get equipped like Para SF in the near future.Army is short of budget to equip 2 companies and they are specialised troops.
> 
> We should infact reduce the number of operators and concentrate on better equipping them.
> 
> 
> 
> In who?..I am sorry i am online after 2 weeks kindly share the articles with me.



Well the articles are not really new, there was this book on SF which claimed of training not being in par with other SFs and some random rejection rates, I started doubting the book when it stated websites and quite possibly blogs as sources.


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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I will take it as a compliment.Thank you.I am 23 and i have a long way to go for that.
> 
> The Commanding Officers rate them as SF only but they are not.
> Well..the size wont be increased but they will get equipped like Para SF in the near future.Army is short of budget to equip 2 companies and they are specialised troops.
> 
> We should infact reduce the number of operators and concentrate on better equipping them.
> 
> 
> 
> In who?..I am sorry i am online after 2 weeks kindly share the articles with me.



It was a complement alright and I did mean that too,you should seriously consider.By the way,I have always wanted to join the army after meeting Gen Shankar Roychoudhry in our school.I even appeared for NDA but coudn't clear the aptitude test.

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## bloo

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That is not off topic but this is what i thought for years.Army has a Sniper School in Madhya Pradesh and good training is imparted there.But i think we should train with US Army in this.Moreoever the use of snipers in operations has only increased in the last decade with now IA using Snipers on helis targetting terrorists.



Though I doubt we have anything like the USMC scout sniper?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bloo said:


> Well the articles are not really new, there was this book on SF which claimed of training not being in par with other SFs and some random rejection rates, I started doubting the book when it stated websites and quite possibly blogs as sources.



Mate,i am no one to claim anything infront of a Lt General of the IA but i think he was highly critical.

Para SF now in 2014 are by far the best SF in the entire South Asian region that too by a big margin and that is what matters.I dont see Seals going on a 1 on 1 with Para.We just need our SF to be better than our enemies and i think we are a lot better equipped and trained when we compare with both the Pakistani and Chinese SF.

The 5 man teams excluding the Platoon leader which the Para SF deploy are the best small teams that any Army cand deploy in the region.You should watch the NDTV documentary where they covered this in detail.

It is a constantly evolving process and in next 5 years you will see Indian SFs match with the best in the business when talking about equipment too.

Lastly,i would say that Para SF is a ruthless force.The training which they get makes them ruthless.Some of the things they face can only be compared to Spetsnaz forget about Seals.



Omega007 said:


> It was a complement alright and I did mean that too,you should seriously consider.By the way,I have always wanted to join the army after meeting Gen Shankar Roychoudhry in our school.I even appeared for NDA but coudn't clear the aptitude test.



General Choudhary...He is a straigh forward talking man.I love his moustache.



bloo said:


> Though I doubt we have anything like the USMC scout sniper?



Nothing like it.

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That is not off topic but this is what i thought for years.Army has a Sniper School in Madhya Pradesh and good training is imparted there.But i think we should train with US Army in this.Moreoever the use of snipers in operations has only increased in the last decade with now IA using Snipers on helis targetting terrorists.



Yeah,I know about the MHow sniper hub.But as far as I have heard from my sources,it is more like a designated marksman training centre than a sniper school of US Army.But I would love to be corrected if you know otherwise.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Yeah,I know about the MHow sniper hub.But as far as I have heard from my sources,it is more like a designated marksman training centre than a sniper school of US Army.But I would love to be corrected if you know otherwise.



MHOW or the Military Headquater Of War has a infantry school where the Sniper course is carried out for 90 days.The people i have met have always maintained that it is one of the toughest courses a infantryman ever does.

The best Snipers are with the Para and NSG in the country and i seriously have no idea where they train.

What i can confirm is that in the year 2000-2001 a few US Army instructors came over to MHOW to train IA snipers.Right now as we speak there are many US SOF personnel involved in training the Indian SF and israelis too.The media made a mess of the issue in the past so everything is kept a secret.

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## Omega007

By the way COLD,are you on facebook??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> By the way COLD,are you on facebook??



Contact me on.

coldheartedaviator@gmail.com


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## bloo

Speaking of snipers what we also need is something like HITRON.


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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Contact me on.
> 
> coldheartedaviator@gmail.com



Alright!!Now we are talking.By the way,last year I visited both Sikkim and AP and the good thing is that sanghars have largely been & beeing replaced with both concrete and steel structures.But the roads were still the same like they were 5 years ago.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

BTW on the Army Day a Seargent Major from 9 Para SF got SM for his brave actions on 10 January 2013...Now on 8th January our 2 soldiers were beheaded.

So,that means the 9thPara SF was called soon after and they carried out some operations on the LOC.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> BTW on the Army Day a Seargent Major from 9 Para SF got SM for his brave actions on 10 January 2013...Now on 8th January our 2 soldiers were beheaded.
> 
> So,that means the 9thPara SF was called soon after and they carried out some operations on the LOC.


 
Buddy i found this article in the net

India’s Special Operations Capability » Indian Defence Review

it says we have to improve a lot what you say about that


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## naveen mishra



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> Buddy i found this article in the net
> 
> India’s Special Operations Capability » Indian Defence Review
> 
> it says we have to improve a lot what you say about that


Its an ongoing process mate.We have come a long way since 26/11.In the next 5 years we will be there.

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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> Ah good mate, I was going to have a mini rant at you if you had said yes , I'm glad we're on the same page about them (the Garuds). Well let the CoBRAs do what they want I guess, they do deliver and they work hard, they aren't SF's though- as we've both separately pointed out. The CRPF's SOPs on sharing media of their units is obviously far more lenient than the Indian Mil's where there is an effective ban on all of it- you can get into some DEEP,DEEP brown stuff for even posing in your uniform in pics that make their way onto social media sights. I have heard this first hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrt SG, I think you're not far off. What I would say is that SG work directly for RAW so their operations are very much intelligence led and are more strategic than perhaps the PARA (SF) working in JK who act as the "heavy guns" in the valley i.e. swooping in and acting as QRTs. I'd say SG are a mix between the CIA's SAD and the US Army's Delta. I have heard it for a fact that SG are on the ground in various countries in the region working on certain activities- if you ever hear of a terrorist just being dumped/presented at an Indian border then it will be SG doing this work, it doesn't just magically happen.
> 
> 
> I couldn't comment on whether they were working in Afghanistan, I have no doubt RAW is present in Jalalbad- no doubt whatsoever. But I don't know what SG could be doing their because they aren't handlers of assets, they are simply "shooters"- RAW has their own handlers.



1st question What is SG?

2nd) Do you think that RAW even has the required capabilities to use Human intelligence in foreign countries.The articles that come out in the media are very critical and really shows how lethargic and underfunded RAW is.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

anyrandom said:


> 1st question What is SG?
> 
> 2nd) Do you think that RAW even has the required capabilities to use Human intelligence in foreign countries.The articles that come out in the media are very critical and really shows how lethargic and underfunded RAW is.



You will be surprised to know what all the RAW has achieved pre IK Gujral tenure.


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## anyrandom

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You will be surprised to know what all the RAW has achieved pre IK Gujral tenure.



what is SG?


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## Unknowncommando



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## bloo

anyrandom said:


> what is SG?



SG or Special Group was initially formed from the Special Frontier Force and now also includes volunteers from regular army units, they are practically special forces of R&AW.
More or less they are like; what the Special Activities Division(SAD) is to CIA, SG is to R&AW.

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## nik22

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You will be surprised to know what all the RAW has achieved pre IK Gujral tenure.


Can someone list out achievements of RAW post Gujral era?


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## anyrandom

But i have not read any valid new about the existence of SG. Even Wikipedia doesnt have much of it. So how are you guys knowing about it? Can i have some to-read things?


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## bloo

anyrandom said:


> But i have not read any valid new about the existence of SG. Even Wikipedia doesnt have much of it. So how are you guys knowing about it? Can i have some to-read things?



SG do exist.
Search for Special Group - The Mavericks or just Special Group.

Late Major Udai Singh SC SM, was one such known SF and SG op.




http://majorudaisingh.com/biography.htm


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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> SG or Special Group was initially formed from the Special Frontier Force and now also includes volunteers from regular army units, they are practically special forces of R&AW.
> More or less they are like; what the Special Activities Division(SAD) is to CIA, SG is to R&AW.


Well it's true SG is a part of the SFF however it is made up ENTIRELY of IA SF and a few SFs from the IN, SG has NO regular IA in it except in support roles.



bloo said:


> SG do exist.
> Search for Special Group - The Mavericks or just Special Group.
> 
> Late Major Udai Singh SC SM, was one such known SF and SG op.
> Biography


Post this:






Get rid of that @bloo.

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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> Well it's true SG is a part of the SFF however it is made up ENTIRELY of IA SF and a few SFs from the IN, SG has NO regular IA in it except in support roles.
> 
> 
> Post this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get rid of that @bloo.



I know, I was just giving him a brief summary.

Done.
Though I doubt that matters, they have boldly posted it in front of God and everyone else.

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## Abingdonboy

SPG at Beating Retreat 2014:

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## Commander T

beckham said:


> beckham said:
Click to expand...

 AAg lag gai aa oeeeeeeee.......... doroo aethooonnnnnnn


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## Abingdonboy

SPG's CAT:

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## Commander T

beckham said:


>


 Captian<<<Aj pher daal pakai aa


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Well it's true SG is a part of the SFF however it is made up ENTIRELY of IA SF and a few SFs from the IN, SG has NO regular IA in it except in support roles.
> 
> Get rid of that @bloo.



SG has NO IN or IAF personnel.
You know it will be better if you stop giving some forces undeserved credit...no offence intended.



nik22 said:


> Can someone list out achievements of RAW post Gujral era?


CIT-J and CIT-X.


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## Sergi

Wow !!! so people start believing in SG


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## Abingdonboy

SPG at NCC Parade 2014:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> SPG at NCC Parade 2014:



Good work on posting SPG pics.I see you are in love with them. 

During the Army day i saw the Army chief surrounded by Para SF personnel trainned in VIP security wearing back suit and sunglasses.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Good work on posting SPG pics.I see you are in love with them.
> 
> During the Army day i saw the Army chief surrounded by Para SF personnel trainned in VIP security wearing back suit and sunglasses.


Lol mate! I am a fan of them indeed and I don't think enough is out there on these guys who do a quiet but important job.


Hmm missed that at Army day, will have to re-watch the video. I though the guys in civilian dress were MPs and the PARA (SF) were always dressed in their combat fatigues.


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## nik22

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> CIT-J and CIT-X.


I.K. Gujral became PM in 1997. These operations were in mid 80s
Two thing I know of - Operation Leech and Afghanistan role. But there have been major embarrassment like Kargil intelligence failure, Rabinder Singh defection to US, Mumbai attacks failure


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS




COBRA








GARUDS













PARAS

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## Unknowncommando

AWESOME PIC OF GARUDS AND MI17V5 DURING IRON FIST 2013

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## Koovie

NSG members seem to be pretty interested in all the stuff at Defexpo






EDIT:

Watch from 2:40... the guy seems to imply that Kalashnikov is trying to sell these automatic shotguns to the Indian Police or Special Forces (likely the NSG)






@Unknowncommando @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy

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## Unknowncommando




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## Mercenary

Why are so many indian special forces have oriental features?


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> NSG members seem to be pretty interested in all the stuff at Defexpo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Watch from 2:40... the guy seems to imply that Kalashnikov is trying to sell these automatic shotguns to the Indian Police or Special Forces (likely the NSG)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Unknowncommando @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy


Yeah, I highly doubt the NSG will get any products from Kalashnikov- they were just looking, as all police/military units do at such shows. My friend who went said the NSG guys he saw spent about one hour at the Beretta and IWI stands, they're just there to see what's around and to keep up to date on the product ranges. And Kalashnikov can offer all they want in India, whether Indian police/central forces accept them is up to them after seeing what they want and what else is on offer.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS




GARUD




NSG

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## noksss

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy 

Guys i am seriously concerned about how the special forces are formed currently by our army i have seen the below article 
which has stated some big flaws on how we are creating our special forces. can you guys shed some light on the below article 

Whither Special Forces? » Indian Defence Review

*Some points from the article:*
The way the concept of Special Forces has been dealt with over the years, the entire Parachute Regiment may not be part of the proposed Special Forces Command, as recommended by the veteran paratrooper Brigadier. *However, given the current dispensation, it is very much possible that the Special Forces of the three Services are brought together under a similar non-specialist hierarchy, even a three star paratrooper army commander, akin to what the army has been doing for past several years. That will make China and Pakistan really, really happy.* Not without reason some time back when a question was asked what China thinks about India’s nuclear forces, the response was what to talk of nuclear forces, India does not even know how to use its conventional forces!


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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy
> 
> Guys i am seriously concerned about how the special forces are formed currently by our army i have seen the below article
> which has stated some big flaws on how we are creating our special forces. can you guys shed some light on the below article
> 
> Whither Special Forces? » Indian Defence Review
> 
> *Some points from the article:*
> The way the concept of Special Forces has been dealt with over the years, the entire Parachute Regiment may not be part of the proposed Special Forces Command, as recommended by the veteran paratrooper Brigadier. *However, given the current dispensation, it is very much possible that the Special Forces of the three Services are brought together under a similar non-specialist hierarchy, even a three star paratrooper army commander, akin to what the army has been doing for past several years. That will make China and Pakistan really, really happy.* Not without reason some time back when a question was asked what China thinks about India’s nuclear forces, the response was what to talk of nuclear forces, India does not even know how to use its conventional forces!


It's a nonsense article that doesn't seem to follow any sort of consistent argument. Firstly not ALL the PARA btns are transiting to SF Btns- not at all. And as such it makes sense for the non-SF btns to remain out of the SOCOM as they aren't SFs! Also the MoD has already stated it would be an IA SF officer in charge of the SOCOM.


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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> It's a nonsense article that doesn't seem to follow any sort of consistent argument. Firstly not ALL the PARA btns are transiting to SF Btns- not at all. And as such it makes sense for the non-SF btns to remain out of the SOCOM as they aren't SFs! Also the MoD has already stated it would be an IA SF officer in charge of the SOCOM.


Buddy what i am concerned is the author claims that the army is currently doing some like the below 

*Special Forces of the three Services are brought together under a similar non-specialist hierarchy, even a three star paratrooper army commander, akin to what the army has been doing for past several years.*

how true the above statement is what i am not sure 
*
*


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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> Buddy what i am concerned is the author claims that the army is currently doing some like the below
> 
> *Special Forces of the three Services are brought together under a similar non-specialist hierarchy, even a three star paratrooper army commander, akin to what the army has been doing for past several years.*
> 
> how true the above statement is what i am not sure


FALSE. 100% FALSE.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Koovie

Mercenary said:


> Why are so many indian special forces have *oriental features*?





Abingdonboy said:


>



Is the IAF using those helos with commandos like the US SF and their Little Birds? 

I have also seen those light helos with gunpods attached


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Is the IAF using those helos with commandos like the US SF and their Little Birds?
> 
> I have also seen those light helos with gunpods attached





Koovie said:


> Is the IAF using those helos with commandos like the US SF and their Little Birds?
> 
> I have also seen those light helos with gunpods attached


That's an apt analogy I'd say mate- small helo to insert small units of SF operators.







And the armed Cheetahs are called Lancers.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

That helicopter belongs to Army not IAF.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That helicopter belongs to Army not IAF.


Yes, I meant to say that.


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## hkdas

> In the light of the current controversy surrounding its involvement in the Punjab crisis in 1984, it is necessary to understand what the Special Group or SG is all about. It is a specialised unit for conducting covert operations and training personnel for deniable actions functioning under the Directorate General of Security reporting to Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), the external intelligence agency.
> 
> 
> Set up in the early 80s, the unit is located at Chakrata in Uttarakhand and Sarsawa in Uttar Pradesh (UP). All personnel are from the army. It consists of four operational squadrons with each rotating through counter-terrorism duties on a half-yearly basis. One team is always in a state of high alert for contingencies. Squadrons consist of four troops each having a specialised role. The operational squadrons are supported by wings dealing with intelligence and planning, training and communications.
> 
> By the end of 1983, the daily deteriorating situation in Punjab necessitated a serious intervention. The Special Group was tasked to formulate a viable plan to remove terrorist leader Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale from the Golden Temple Complex. Britain’s Special Air Service, after the Iranian Embassy siege of 1980, was the most high profile counter-terrorism force in the world. The commander of the SAS’ Counter-Revolutionary Warfare Wing travelled to India and conferred with the SG planners advising them about the best way to accomplish the task. The operation was however called off by the government.
> 
> The skills learned over the years by the SG were put to good use in the Punjab countryside against terrorists in 1988-93. Currently, the unit has displayed its operational expertise in J&K combating infiltrators from across the line of control (LOC). SG operators have also conducted successful information-gathering operations targeting overground workers and terrorist hideouts. Over the years, the Special Group has played a major role in developing tactics, procedures, weapons, equipment and know-how for other special forces.
> 
> - See more at: Special Group: Warriors of stealth - Hindustan Times

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## third eye

Special forces men (Back: L to R) Naik Dinesh Kumar Yadav, Major Ajit Zala and Naib Subedar Hari A R (Front: L to R) Subedar N K Thakur, Hawaldar Meghraj Kolhe and Subedar B B Thapa

*Major Ajit Zala is 32 years old and he landed in Bangalore only a month back. The newly-married, soft-spoken soldier was wearing a black T-shirt with his unit’s insignia etched on the front. In the Army since 2003, Zala, hailing from Gujarat, is the only second officer of 2 PARA SF to have won the Kirti Chakra for his brave deed while undertaking a CI (Counter Insurgency) mission in Jammu and Kashmir. On the eve Republic Day, Zala was among the six bravehearts cleared by the 2 PARA SF (Special Forces), one of the elitist units of Indian Army, for an exclusive interaction with City Express.*

*All the six, currently posted in Bangalore, are recipients of Gallantry Awards and they recall the tales that fetched them all the glory.*

*DARING MISSION*

*“April 2008. I was posted at Lolab Valley in North Kashmir. We came to know that militants belonging to LeT and Al Badar groups beheaded two J&K policemen on April 2. The security apparatus got activated and our first mission was to locate the bodies, which we did after two days and on April 6, two squads were formed to capture the militants. We extensively used thermal images to scan the area, which was nothing but thick forest,” Zala says of his valiant deed, sans any expression on his face.*

*Heavy downpour did make the team’s job tougher, but Zala says nothing could ever stop a Special Forces man to take his eye out of the mission. “We soon spotted some movements and there were around five to six people. We had to first confirm that they were not civilians and decided to divert the squads in two directions. I was part of the squad that waited below the forest track. I could see a sense of emergency being shown by the suspect group. While they came closer, I spotted their hidden weapons. Three militants were killed on the spot and another body was recovered the next day morning. Since we were lying down and firing, one militant jumped over us and escaped,” says Zala.*

*Zala says it was the fearlessness factor that made him join the SF. “Later I fell in love with the discipline and patience aspects of SF. What makes the journey in SF different is that everything gets down to micro level detailing. Killing the enemy is just the miniscule part of our mission,” Zala adds. He was awarded the Kirti Chakra in 2009.*

*16 HOUR OPERATIONS*

*Naib Subedar Hari A R is 39 years old and has completed 20 years with 2PARA SF now. Hailing from Thiruvananthapuram, Hari was awarded the Sena Medal in 2008. “I was posted in Kashmir’s Tharal village in 2007 and there were 5 teams from 2PARA SF. We had information from the police that three terrorists were hiding in a house in a nearby village, which was 25 minutes from our location. The police had already cordoned off the house. All of a sudden one man came out of the house and we thought he was surrendering. Soon he threw a grenade and we shot him down,” says Hari. He states that they resisted from using further fire as the area was densely populated.*

*With the night setting in, Hari and his team decided to detonate the house using IEDs. “I was tasked to clear the house with my buddy. I executed the mission and killed one militant in the process. There were 2 LeT militants and one local Kashmiri terrorist. It was a 16-hour long operation and there were no causalities from our side,” says Hari, who treats being in SF a very lucky assignment.*

*WEDDED TO SF*

*Subedar B B Thapa is 49 years old and he is all set to complete three decades serving the Army and says he has the energy and will to serve for another 10 more years.*

*“I can’t imagine that I will have to retire soon. I am with the SF right from day one and it has become a way of life for me,” says Thapa, hailing from Dehradun and a Sena Medal recipient in 2002. He undertook the valiant act in January 2002 at Cheri village of Anantnag district.*

*“We were two squads undertaking an ADP (Area Dominating Patrol). Our informants confirmed the presence of two militants in the area. It was around 2 pm. After spotting us, we asked them to lift their pheran, under which the terrorists usually hide their weapons. They started running. When I was about 100 metres closer to them, I confirmed that they were carrying weapons and fired killing one on the spot. The second terrorist took out the arms and started firing at us. He was hiding behind a tree,” Thapa says with his eyes all lit up.*

*Thapa’s team had some difficulty in spotting the hidden terrorist since the colour of his dress matched that of the tree skin. “To and fro firing went on for some time and finally we got him as well,” says Thapa, who terms the job with 2PARA SF as inspiring. “The causality rate is very minimal with us,” he adds.*

*FIGHTING SNOW*

*A recipient of Sena Medal in 2003, 47-year-old Subedar N K Thakur from Rampatti village of Madhubani district in Bihar, joined the Army in 1988. He was on duty in Gadole in Anantnag district when his team got a tip-off that some militants were moving freely in the village.*

*His team of five started their operation in the night which was experiencing heavy snowfall. “We took the riverbed route and took shelter at the first floor of a shop. We had constant inputs coming in from an informer. As the day broke, we kept a close watch on the road beneath. First a woman came to buy some items from the shop and we knew that she was doing a recce. Later, another man came out and he too was doing some kind of surveillance,” says Thakur, with a serious look on his face.*

*As the SF team waited patiently, they spotted a five member team walking on the road. “They were calm and composed. At a distance of about 100 metres, we had a doubt that they were terrorists and it was confirmed when they came closer and we could make out that they were carrying weapons. The rest is history and we killed four of them on the spot and one managed to escape. I killed two of them - one at 10 metre distance and another at 15 metre,” says Thakur. He is all praise for the SF’s philosophy of executing difficult missions with the help of small teams.*

*OUTSMARTING THE TERRORISTS*

*Thirty-six-year-old Hawaldar Meghraj Kolhe is a native of Ahmednagar in Maharashtra and has been with the Indian Army for the last 17 years. He picked up a Sena Medal in 2003 and feels that SAF’s silent nature work makes it an absolutely inspiring unit.*

*Meghraj was on his daily rounds in Kokernag area of Anantnag district with their camp being set up at a nearby village. “We got firm information that two terrorists might step into the area. We put a plan in place. Two squads with one carrying the light machine guns and another rocket launchers were formed and we cordoned off the suspected area. The terrorists got a wind of our move and they came out with a ‘smart plan’ that eventually flopped. We saw a ‘couple’ walking on the road and we asked them to stop. They acted as if they didn’t hear us and started walking ahead. One had the face completely covered and we wanted to ensure that they were not civilians. We watched patiently and kept on asking them to stop. They refused to heed to our orders and started running. I could see a weapon hidden under the pheran of one guy while the other fired at us. We threw grenades at them but they didn’t explode due to ice. Finally, I got on to a position and fired from the RL and killed both of them. One was disguised as a woman. It was another execution of team work,” says Meghraj. He says the SF guys don’t make much noise and all the work is often done very silently.*

*MOONLIGHT MISSION*

*Naik Dinesh Kumar Yadav is 33 years old and he is a native of Sikar in Rajasthan. Fourteen years in Army, Dinesh’s daredevil act came in May 2007 at Tharal village of J&K. The same year he was awarded the Sena Medal too. Acting on information late in the night, Dinesh and his team was woken up from their sleep for the mission. Dinesh had already packed his bags to proceed on leave the next day. “We were told that some militants were holed up in a house next to the Dal Lake. When we approached the house, they started firing from all sides. I was hiding behind a tree and started crawling towards the house. It was around 4 am in the morning and the moon was shining bright. I waited patiently and suddenly saw a man jumping out of the house firing indiscriminately in all directions. I fired at him and he was down immediately,” says Dinesh.*

*The buddy pair concept is something that Dinesh likes most about SF. “The bonding is outstanding. In SF, we script new definition for team spirit,” he adds.*

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## Unknowncommando

SOME OLD PICS OF MARCOS

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## Roybot

Is there any age limit for special forces, as in retirement from active duty? I mean surely a 45 year old won't be as a fit as a 25-30 year old?

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando


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## Unknowncommando

Roybot said:


> Is there any age limit for special forces, as in retirement from active duty? I mean surely a 45 year old won't be as a fit as a 25-30 year old?
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando


may be upto 35.Correct if i am wrong.@Abingdonboy

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## Abingdonboy

deleted


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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF):

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF) contd....

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF) contd...















































Roybot said:


> Is there any age limit for special forces, as in retirement from active duty? I mean surely a 45 year old won't be as a fit as a 25-30 year old?
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando


By the nature of the selection and training process the average age of the SF operator is going to be higher than the average age of the regular grunt- this is the case in most Western SFs. Whilst fitness is paramount in SFs they also highly value experience ad retain their operators for longer. The average on teams will be around mid-20s until mid 30s. After this the older guys either retire or are retained as instructors/support staff but not the "shooters" and won't see any action.

AFAIK the age for retirement in the IA is 35 unless one is promoted anyway.

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## Abingdonboy

Special Protection Group (SPG) Counter Assault Team (CAT) member:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Where is the part 2 of the Zee news documentary?

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## RPK



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## JAYSINGH

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF) contd...
> 
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> 
> By the nature of the selection and training process the average age of the SF operator is going to be higher than the average age of the regular grunt- this is the case in most Western SFs. Whilst fitness is paramount in SFs they also highly value experience ad retain their operators for longer. The average on teams will be around mid-20s until mid 30s. After this the older guys either retire or are retained as instructors/support staff but not the "shooters" and won't see any action.
> 
> AFAIK the age for retirement in the IA is 35 unless one is promoted anyway.


try to post more pics of high quality.is there any software or application to take good stills from video?


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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
_*



*_
_*



*_
_*



*_
_*



*_
_*



*_

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## shree835




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## Abingdonboy

shree835 said:


>


Not SF, basic infantry go throughout this not to mention at IMA and NDA.


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## shree835



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## Abingdonboy

shree835 said:


>


NOTHING to do with SPECIAL FORCES! There is an Indian Military Picture thread


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## shree835

Abingdonboy said:


> NOTHING to do with SPECIAL FORCES! There is an Indian Military Picture thread



SPECIAL FORCES not always flexing muscle ... they do humanity work, building relationship with other country too...


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## me_itsme

shree835 said:


> SPECIAL FORCES not always flexing muscle ... they do humanity work, building relationship with other country too...


 
lol...the pics you posted are nothing about SF. This is a dedicated SF thread post your pics in IA pics thread.

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## Indischer

Also,why is this thread flooded with COBRAs of CRPF? They deserve a thread for themselves.

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## cloud_9

Mercenary said:


> Why are so many indian special forces have oriental features?


NE Indians.

Lack of job oppurtunities and joining the armed forces is the easiest way to a government job.Big industries and Medium enterprise are missing because of environmental concerns and various laws which have sheltered NE from the mainland.

Similiar to J&K.


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## Unknowncommando

Indischer said:


> Also,why is this thread flooded with COBRAs of CRPF? They deserve a thread for themselves.


from starting there was no special thread for paramilitary and all guys are posting COBRA NSG AND SPG pics here though they are not military SFs.To ab phirse naya thread kholke sab pics waha pe thodi daalne vale hai. And usually we dont get many pics of military Sfs so we pics of other special units. If pics of SPG and NSG are posted then whats wrong with COBRA.Vaise I agree ki yaha pe sirf military sfs k pics hone chahiye. But i dont understand why some members here show such disrespect for COBRAS .after all they r also serving the nation.They are also a special soldiers and part of our armed forces. So this is not a big issue thats what i think. Agar sab log chahate jonge toh COBRA k pics INDIAN MILITARY PICTURE THREAD pe post karenge.


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## Indischer

Unknowncommando said:


> from starting there was no special thread for paramilitary and all guys are posting COBRA NSG AND SPG pics here though they are not military SFs.To ab phirse naya thread kholke sab pics waha pe thodi daalne vale hai. And usually we dont get many pics of military Sfs so we pics of other special units. If pics of SPG and NSG are posted then whats wrong with COBRA.Vaise I agree ki yaha pe sirf military sfs k pics hone chahiye. But i dont understand why some members here show such disrespect for COBRAS .after all they r also serving the nation.They are also a special soldiers and part of our armed forces. So this is not a big issue thats what i think. Agar sab log chahate jonge toh COBRA k pics INDIAN MILITARY PICTURE THREAD pe post karenge.



Firstly, apologies if my post hurt you in any way, as you're one of the best contributors here. But you very well know the answer to this question yourself. If COBRAs are designated as Special Forces, they'll definitely warrant a mention here. But they aren't, nor are they part of the Indian Army. So why put them in either of these two threads? As I said before, they deserve a sticky thread for themselves.

It's not a question of their Service to the Nation either. Nobody's disputing that. It's more an issue of diluting the express purpose of this thread. Hope you understand.


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## Unknowncommando

Indischer said:


> Firstly, apologies if my post hurt you in any way, as you're one of the best contributors here. But you very well know the answer to this question yourself. If COBRAs are designated as Special Forces, they'll definitely warrant a mention here. But they aren't, nor are they part of the Indian Army. So why put them in either of these two threads? As I said before, they deserve a sticky thread for themselves.
> 
> It's not a question of their Service to the Nation either. Nobody's disputing that. It's more an issue of diluting the express purpose of this thread. Hope you understand.


nahi bhai hurt vagera kuch bhi. I dnt get hurt by small things. So u r saying that someone should open a new sticky thread for paramilitary special units. But one thing i want to ask u. SPG and NSG also not part of army.NSG come under MHA and guys selected from paramilitary and army while SPGs are selected from NSG and DELHI POLICE then why r we posting their pics. Jane bhi they yara koi badi baat nahi hai. Itni choti batey bother nahi karte. Fir bhi if anyone is interested in opening new thread then he can open. Chal ab padhne de bhai 12 th board ki exam hai meri.

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## Indischer

Unknowncommando said:


> nahi bhai hurt vagera kuch bhi. I dnt get hurt by small things. So u r saying that someone should open a new sticky thread for paramilitary special units. But one thing i want to ask u. SPG and NSG also not part of army.NSG come under MHA and guys selected from paramilitary and army while SPGs are selected from NSG and DELHI POLICE then why r we posting their pics. Jane bhi they yara koi badi baat nahi hai. Itni choti batey bother nahi karte. Fir bhi if anyone is interested in opening new thread then he can open. Chal ab padhne de bhai 12 th board ki exam hai meri.



ok bhai, rehne dete hain inko yaheen pe. Waise bhi mere kehne pe thodi kuch hota hai yahaan...chalo, ab padhai pe bhi dhyan do.


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## shree835

Who is the Best....??


























MARCOS in Action....

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## shree835



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## Abingdonboy

NSG isn't a SF.
The ones on the ship aren't MARCOs but SPB
Relevant to SFs how?


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## shree835

Abingdonboy said:


> *NSG isn't a SF.*
> 
> The ones on the ship aren't MARCOs but SPB
> 
> Relevant to SFs how?



I believe Wiki is wrong....Proof me...??????

The *National Security Guard* (*NSG*) is a special force in India that has primarily been utilised for counter-terrorism activities and was created by the Cabinet Secretariat under the _National Security Guard Act_ of the Indian Parliament in 1986. It works completely within the Central Armed Police Forces structure. The NSG is an elite force providing a second line of defence to the nation. They have played a pivotal role in safeguarding the unity of India and have commendably foiled attempts of anti-national elements to tear apart the social fabric of the country. The NSG have maintained an edge over terrorist outfits in possession of latest technology and are considered among the best special operations units in the world.[1]


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## Abingdonboy

shree835 said:


> I believe Wiki is wrong....Proof me...??????
> 
> The *National Security Guard* (*NSG*) is a special force in India that has primarily been utilised for counter-terrorism activities and was created by the Cabinet Secretariat under the _National Security Guard Act_ of the Indian Parliament in 1986. It works completely within the Central Armed Police Forces structure. The NSG is an elite force providing a second line of defence to the nation. They have played a pivotal role in safeguarding the unity of India and have commendably foiled attempts of anti-national elements to tear apart the social fabric of the country. The NSG have maintained an edge over terrorist outfits in possession of latest technology and are considered among the best special operations units in the world.[1]


Wiki is wrong or at least has worded it wrong. Look up the definition of SFs- the NSG is NOT one and was NEVER meant to be one- they are a highly specialist counter terror force. India only has THREE SFs as recognised by the GoI/MoD- PARA (SF), MARCOs and Garuds- that is ALL.


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## shree835

Abingdonboy said:


> Wiki is wrong or at least has worded it wrong. Look up the definition of SFs- the NSG is NOT one and was NEVER meant to be one- they are a highly specialist counter terror force. India only has THREE SFs as recognised by the GoI/MoD- PARA (SF), MARCOs and Garuds- that is ALL.



What I should take it as...your PERCEPTION or JUDGEMENT... I would like to see proof that supports your statement....I can show you N number of supporting docs to support my comment.


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## Abingdonboy

shree835 said:


> What I should take it as...your PERCEPTION or JUDGEMENT... I would like to see proof that supports your statement....I can show you N number of supporting docs to support my comment.


You can show me all the Indian media produced BS about every other specialist force being "commandos" and "special forces" I mean have you seen that series on the COBRAs that calls them Special forces every 5 seconds and compares them to US SEALs and Green Berets?!!

Look up the term for Special Forces, the NSG does not conform to this definition and again, there are ONLY THREE SFs in India- this much is confirmed by the GoI/MoD- which forces wear the red SF tabs in India? ONLY the MARCOs,PARA(SF) and Garuds.


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## shree835

Abingdonboy said:


> You can show me all the Indian media produced BS about every other specialist force being "commandos" and "special forces" I mean have *you seen that series on the COBRAs that calls them Special forces every 5 seconds and compares them to US SEALs and Green Berets?*!!
> 
> Look up the term for Special Forces, the NSG does not conform to this definition and again, there are ONLY THREE SFs in India- this much is confirmed by the GoI/MoD- which forces wear the red SF tabs in India? ONLY the MARCOs,PARA(SF) and Garuds.



I asked you supporting docs...But here I can see You are getting personal...and trying to give me Bol Bachan...waiting for your supporting docs...If you are correct ...I would love to correct myself...I don have ego issue.

FYI...One of my cousin brother is a Commando in NSG...My family relates with Army, Air Force and Navy.


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## Abingdonboy

shree835 said:


> I asked you supporting docs...But here I can see You are getting personal...and trying to give me Bol Bachan...waiting for your supporting docs...If you are correct ...I would love to correct myself...I don have ego issue.


This is an accepted fact, I don't know what evidence you want me to provide.

Just like the GSG-9, FBI's HRT or GIGN aren't SFs just very specialised counter terror units, neither is the NSG. The NSG was raised on the lines of the GSG-9 and holds training sessions with other police/federal counter terror units around the world but NOT military SFs like Green Berets or USN SEALS (like the PARA (SF) and MARCOs do). 


What I'm saying isn't at all controversial but is common knowledge. One just needs to understand what SFs are otherwise one, like many of the other ignorant Indians, will go around calling Police SWAT teams Special Forces for God's sake!! 




shree835 said:


> FYI...One of my cousin brother is a Commando in NSG...My family relates with Army, Air Force and Navy.


Fair enough and respect to anyone who serves their nation. Why don't you ask him whether the NSG considers themselves as part of India's SFs? Is he SRG or SAG btw?

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## me_itsme

NSG is not special forces, they are a specialist counter terrorist unit. More on the lines of FBI HRT. @shree835 SF's are different their operational profile may overlap with that of specialist CT but that's just one of their role, they have wide variety of roles from hostage rescue to assassinations to unconventional warfare, where as the NSG's role is just limited to internal response against terrorist threats and more over they come under the home ministry.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> nahi bhai hurt vagera kuch bhi. I dnt get hurt by small things. So u r saying that someone should open a new sticky thread for paramilitary special units. But one thing i want to ask u. SPG and NSG also not part of army.NSG come under MHA and guys selected from paramilitary and army while SPGs are selected from NSG and DELHI POLICE then why r we posting their pics. Jane bhi they yara koi badi baat nahi hai. Itni choti batey bother nahi karte. Fir bhi if anyone is interested in opening new thread then he can open. Chal ab padhne de bhai 12 th board ki exam hai meri.





Unknowncommando said:


> nahi bhai hurt vagera kuch bhi. I dnt get hurt by small things. So u r saying that someone should open a new sticky thread for paramilitary special units. But one thing i want to ask u. SPG and NSG also not part of army.NSG come under MHA and guys selected from paramilitary and army while SPGs are selected from NSG and DELHI POLICE then why r we posting their pics. Jane bhi they yara koi badi baat nahi hai. Itni choti batey bother nahi karte. Fir bhi if anyone is interested in opening new thread then he can open. Chal ab padhne de bhai 12 th board ki exam hai meri.


SPG are not recruited from NSG and Delhi Police.

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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> SPG are not recruited from NSG and Delhi Police.


ohhk thank you......_/\_


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## Unknowncommando

People here think that only they have better knowledge here and no one is as good as them and they r the Great THINK TANKS of all time. This is the reason why most of the times I avoid to discuss here and only love to post pics. 
NOTE:I am not taunting anyone or not trying to tell someone particular indirectly just wanted to express ,so plzz dont take it otherwise. All the best.And
JAI HIND!!!!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> ohhk thank you......_/\_


SPG are recruited from all forces under MHA and not specially from a Police unit.NSG doesnt send anyone to NSG because the personnel in NSG are not owned by NSG but are on deputation so how can NSG send them to SPG.CISF, CRPF, ITBP etc can send their personnel to SPG.

For SPG the personnel not only have to clear written tests and interviews but also need to have a clean track record of not only themselves but till their grandfather.

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## nik22

Unknowncommando said:


> People here think that only they have better knowledge here and no one is as good as them and they r the Great THINK TANKS of all time. This is the reason why most of the times I avoid to discuss here and only love to post pics.
> NOTE:I am not taunting anyone or not trying to tell someone particular indirectly just wanted to express ,so plzz dont take it otherwise. All the best.And
> JAI HIND!!!!!


I kinda understand the feeling. Keep it up Bro!!


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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> SPG are recruited from all forces under MHA and not specially from a Police unit.NSG doesnt send anyone to NSG because the personnel in NSG are not owned by NSG but are on deputation so how can NSG send them to SPG.CISF, CRPF, ITBP etc can send their personnel to SPG.
> 
> For SPG the personnel not only have to clear written tests and interviews but also need to have a clean track record of not only themselves but till their grandfather.


thanks for the info. My doubt is cleared now but i remember i have read it somewhere thats why i said. May be wrong. Various type of things are posted on internet. Sometimes dont understand whom to rely on.


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## JAYSINGH

_*




*_
PARA SF

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## Koovie



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## Koovie

Seems they dont like to be photographed ^^

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## cloud_9

shree835 said:


>


Too much of Bollywood 
After taking the oath they probably break into dancing around the trees,down the slopes,into fowery valleys


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> AWESOME PIC OF GARUDS AND MI17V5 DURING IRON FIST 2013


Interesting thing about this pic is that it is a pic of a real life SAR op by the Garuds. The pic was taken during the rehearsals of Iron Fist 2013 after the MKI had crashed and the 2 pilots had punched out- the Garuds were put in to find the pilots and make sure they were okay.

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## JAYSINGH

_*



*_
SPG
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*_
PARA Special forces
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*_
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*_
NSG

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*_
SPG
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*_
PARA Special forces
_*



*_
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*_
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*_
NSG

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## shree835

cloud_9 said:


> Too much of Bollywood
> After taking the oath they probably break into dancing around the trees,down the slopes,into fowery valleys



So ...you Believe that above mentioned statements belongs from Bollywood...???...Akal Ke dushman.

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## cloud_9

shree835 said:


> So ...you Believe that above mentioned statements belongs from Bollywood...???...Akal Ke dushman.


LOL! What ? Oath with blood is a C grade movie plotline.


Maybe you should stop posting retarded stuff from facebook (psshh... Unicorns aren't real also)


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## shree835

This is the place where MARCOS takes oath...First you should learn how to talk.

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## kurup

Army Day Parade at Delhi , January 2014

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## Srinivas

cloud_9 said:


> Too much of Bollywood
> After taking the oath they probably break into dancing around the trees,down the slopes,into fowery valleys



In some special forces after completion of the coarse the command will be given two options whether to twist the commando's hand there by injuring it or to shoot him on the hand with a pistol with out injuring his bones.

These are like rituals which make them stand apart from the rest of the soldiers.


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## hkdas

kurup said:


> Army Day Parade at Delhi , January 2014



anyidea about the gun that SF personal holding


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## Water Car Engineer

hkdas said:


> anyidea about the gun that SF personal holding




Mini Uzi.


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## cloud_9

Srinivas said:


> In some special forces after completion of the coarse the command will be given two options whether to twist the commando's hand there by injuring it or to shoot him on the hand with a pistol with out injuring his bones.
> 
> These are like rituals which make them stand apart from the rest of the soldiers.


OK! Can someone confirm this ?
Because it sounds pretty stupid that after spending so much resources on an indiviual and then doing something which could render him disabled.....

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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
here is pic. Marcos taking blood oath. Abhi jisey jo samzna hai vo samjho.

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## Unknowncommando

MAROON BERET b4 independence

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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS








MARCOS




NSG [FROM NAT GEO SHOW]







GARUDS




NSG




SPG




PARA




SPG

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 19912
> 
> SPG



That model is SPG?


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## Unknowncommando

Gessler said:


> That model is SPG?


i dont know i was supposed to ask

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Gessler said:


> That model is SPG?


The guys checking the model are SPG.

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## Mike_Brando

kurup said:


> Army Day Parade at Delhi , January 2014


sir,is the soldier carrying a MP-5 in the last picture because from what i see it looks like a MP-5.btw does the Para(SF) use this weapon because i haven't seen a picture of this weapon in their supposed arsenal


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## Unknowncommando

Mike_Brando said:


> sir,is the soldier carrying a MP-5 in the last picture because from what i see it looks like a MP-5.btw does the Para(SF) use this weapon because i haven't seen a picture of this weapon in their supposed arsenal


it is because that silencer or supresser the front looks like mp5 and the mp5 magazine is becuase of foregrip of mini uzi. They just look similar in that pic. Thats why it looks like mp5. Thats what i think.

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## Abingdonboy

Mike_Brando said:


> sir,is the soldier carrying a MP-5 in the last picture because from what i see it looks like a MP-5.btw does the Para(SF) use this weapon because i haven't seen a picture of this weapon in their supposed arsenal





Unknowncommando said:


> it is because that silencer or supresser the front looks like mp5 and the mp5 magazine is becuase of foregrip of mini uzi. They just look similar in that pic. Thats why it looks like mp5. Thats what i think.










100% a Mini Uzi:

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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG:



Hi Abingdonboy, which gun they are carrying ?

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## jiki

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG:


Awsome dude waiting for this for a long time where did u get it.

i was just busy in political thread now these days failed to involve in defence section as previous dats why missed it.

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## Abingdonboy

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Hi Abingdonboy, which gun they are carrying ?


A late version of the MP-5 with P-rails. RDS and flashlight.



jiki said:


> Awsome dude waiting for this for a long time where did u get it.
> 
> i was just busy in political thread now these days failed to involve in defence section as previous dats why missed it.


It was from another forum, will try to see if I can find out more....


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## cloud_9

shree835 said:


> This is the place where MARCOS takes oath...First you should learn how to talk.


Did you get this


> Akal Ke dushman


 from your "100 Decent Words for Dummies" book.



PS : Learn to Talk ???


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## cloud_9

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> here is pic. Marcos taking blood oath. Abhi jisey jo samzna hai vo samjho.



Sorry my Engrish no good...second language.....you help me....big black words....no same same as picture.



> In some special forces after completion of the coarse the command will be given *two options whether to twist the commando's hand there by injuring it or to shoot him on the hand with a pistol with out injuring his bones.*
> 
> These are like rituals which make them stand apart from the rest of the soldiers



Maybe one guy tell...how much distance between bones in hand....diameter of the bullet....cavitation of padosi tissues but Me no bull-lastic ustad.Me look my hand...no bullet go in...if go through might damage bones and tissues.Maybe my hand no commando hand....commando hand special hand...no bones...steel tissues.

Me write



> OK! Can someone confirm this ?
> Because it sounds pretty stupid that after spending so much resources on an individual and then doing something which could render him disabled.....



Me still get no answer.

Googled "bullet+injury+hand+case+report".But Google lie...Google tell....if lucky...see doctor for months....everyone happy.....if no lucky....only one hand for wanking.


piece........






PS: Ack! The sight of blood gushing out :vomit::vomit:

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG:




Great find! They look deadly !

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## RPK



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Mike_Brando said:


> sir,is the soldier carrying a MP-5 in the last picture because from what i see it looks like a MP-5.btw does the Para(SF) use this weapon because i haven't seen a picture of this weapon in their supposed arsenal


PARA SF do use MP-5..There was a video in Oriya language of Para SF operating with Marcos in which a Para SF operator was carrying MP-5.

Second reference is the combat diver pic with a MP-5 which people assume to be Marcos but is actually a Para.

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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR great to see you back on here bro! What do you think on the NSG pic ^^^

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR great to see you back on here bro! What do you think on the NSG pic ^^^


Helmet would have looked cool with the gas mask.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Helmet would have looked cool with the gas mask.


Just what I was thinking, from a practical perspective also to protect the operator's heads from flying debris. To me it doesn't look like those Gas Masks are likely to work in conjunction with the NSG's helmets and look of an oder design to the Gas masks I've seen other forces use today, perhaps they are quite old and in need of replacement (will probably happen sooner rather than later).


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## Zarvan

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Hi Abingdonboy, which gun they are carrying ?


Its MP5


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## Chronos

cloud_9 said:


> Me still get no answer.
> 
> Googled "bullet+injury+hand+case+report".But Google lie...Google tell....if lucky...see doctor for months....everyone happy.....if no lucky....*only one hand for wanking.*
> 
> 
> piece........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Ack! The sight of blood gushing out :vomit::vomit:



I was drinking tea while reading this.

You Bastard!!! =D

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## rockstarIN

Abingdonboy said:


> A late version of the MP-5 with P-rails. RDS and flashlight.
> 
> 
> It was from another forum, will try to see if I can find out more....




You are in UK, and you have automatic weapon????

Add a pic please...!!!


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## cloud_9

Ravi Nair said:


> I was drinking tea while reading this.
> 
> You Bastard!!! =D


Stop _*T*reading_ dikhead.No wonder the keyboard is a mess


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## Abingdonboy

rockstarIN said:


> You are in UK, and you have automatic weapon????
> 
> Add a pic please...!!!


I don't have any weapons lol....where'd you get that idea?


----------



## rockstarIN

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't have any weapons lol....where'd you get that idea?


Oasis I misread it


----------



## Unknowncommando

_*




*_
PARA SF commando during INDIAN ARMY DAY

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## Mike_Brando

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> PARA SF commando during INDIAN ARMY DAY


What a macho look!!man i must say that the PARA(SF) are the best dressed people in India and they know exactly how to look cool and smart at the same time


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Mike_Brando said:


> What a macho look!!man i must say that the PARA(SF) are the best dressed people in India and they know exactly how to look cool and smart at the same time




Nothing really special.


----------



## Koovie

Mike_Brando said:


> What a macho look!!man i must say that the PARA(SF) are the best dressed people in India and they know exactly how to look cool and smart at the same time




That award goes to the Navy guys

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## RPK




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## Immanuel

Koovie said:


> Great find! They look deadly !


 
NSG SAG team with MP-5s and Zeiss Victory Z-point Reflex sight.

Both battery and Solar powered sight with rugged water and dust proof housing. Good sight.

Actually I am glad the MARCOS and GARUDS use the MEPRO MOR sight as well, possibly the best reflex sight on the planet.





 
The sight has both Tritium power hence no battery free dot and built in housing for batteries to power visible and IR Lasers all in one neat water proof and rugged package

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## JAYSINGH

RPK said:


>


jara uppar to nazar daalo already posted brother


----------



## Immanuel

Victory Z-Point sight, neat little sight, IA ordered 15,000 and hopefully many more under licence manufacturing, ideal sight for basic Infantry use

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF







CRPF COBRA




PARA SF




MARCOS




SPG











PARA SF SNIPER WITH SPOTTER

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA



















PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_Special group commandos
train at their base in
Sarsawa
_*



*_
In early 1983, six army officers from a classified unit
called the Special Group (SG) were flown to a secret
base of Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli commando force that
led the 1977 rescue of hostages from Entebbe airport in
Uganda. The mission, coordinated by RAW with Mossad,
was classified because India didn't have diplomatic ties with Israel and it did not want to anger its Arab friends.
The officers trained in counter-terror-in carefully
recreated landscapes of streets, buildings and vehicles-
at the base near Tel Aviv for 22 days. The experience, an
SG officer, now retired, recalls, was a culture shock for
the Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see women
guarding Israeli Defense Forces headquarters and
soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in handy.
New Delhi was hosting two summits in 1983 that would
burnish Indira Gandhi's standing as a global leader-the
Non-Aligned Summit in March and the Commonwealth
Heads of Government Meeting in November-and it was
keen to prevent terrorist attacks of the sort that had bedevilled the West through the 1960s and 1970s. The
summits passed without event under SG's watchful eye. SG was created in 1981. Till then, the Army had shown
little interest in raising a specialised anti-terrorist force.
So the government turned to the Directorate General
Security, a covert unit set up by the Jawaharlal Nehru
government with CIA's assistance after the 1962 war
with China. The directorate, which had its own air wing, the Aviation Research Centre, and a paramilitary
comprising Tibetans, the Special Frontier Force (SFF),
was subsumed within raw when the external
intelligence agency was created in 1968. In 1982, the
directorate launched Project Sunray: It tasked a colonel
of the Army's 10th Para/Special Forces to set up a unit of 250 officers and men, all Indians unlike SFF, in
commando companies 55, 56 and 57. The unit, housed in tents at the Sarsawa Indian Air
Force base near Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh and
christened Special Group, operated under the RAW
chief. raw wanted to train the unit's officers with SAS--
SG officers had recommended it after a tour of the
British agency's training facility at Hereford-but the government turned down the proposal, apparently due
to the high training cost of £5,000 per trooper. SG
improvised its own training regimen; being directly
under the Prime Minister's Cabinet Secretariat helped.
"We just had to ask for equipment and it would be
given," recalls a former SG officer. A request for over 100 bulletproof vests and tactical helmets was met
almost overnight and the gear flown in from Israel. SG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after
it was aborted, for Bluestar. Foll

SG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after
it was aborted, for Bluestar. Following Indira's
assassination, SG men protected Prime Minister Rajiv
Gandhi and his family until the government raised the
Special Protection Group in 1985. Soon after, nearly 200
SG personnel were deputed to a new anti-terrorist force under the Union home ministry, the National Security
Guard. The Special Group remains RAW's ultra-secret
military unit for clandestine intelligence missions, the
equivalent of CIA's Special Activities Division.
Here is some info i got abt SG. Dont know if posted b4. Sorry if repost and will remove it then.

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_Special group commandos
> train at their base in
> Sarsawa
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> In early 1983, six army officers from a classified unit
> called the Special Group (SG) were flown to a secret
> base of Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli commando force that
> led the 1977 rescue of hostages from Entebbe airport in
> Uganda. The mission, coordinated by RAW with Mossad,
> was classified because India didn't have diplomatic ties with Israel and it did not want to anger its Arab friends.
> The officers trained in counter-terror-in carefully
> recreated landscapes of streets, buildings and vehicles-
> at the base near Tel Aviv for 22 days. The experience, an
> SG officer, now retired, recalls, was a culture shock for
> the Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see women
> guarding Israeli Defense Forces headquarters and
> soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in handy.
> New Delhi was hosting two summits in 1983 that would
> burnish Indira Gandhi's standing as a global leader-the
> Non-Aligned Summit in March and the Commonwealth
> Heads of Government Meeting in November-and it was
> keen to prevent terrorist attacks of the sort that had bedevilled the West through the 1960s and 1970s. The
> summits passed without event under SG's watchful eye. SG was created in 1981. Till then, the Army had shown
> little interest in raising a specialised anti-terrorist force.
> So the government turned to the Directorate General
> Security, a covert unit set up by the Jawaharlal Nehru
> government with CIA's assistance after the 1962 war
> with China. The directorate, which had its own air wing, the Aviation Research Centre, and a paramilitary
> comprising Tibetans, the Special Frontier Force (SFF),
> was subsumed within raw when the external
> intelligence agency was created in 1968. In 1982, the
> directorate launched Project Sunray: It tasked a colonel
> of the Army's 10th Para/Special Forces to set up a unit of 250 officers and men, all Indians unlike SFF, in
> commando companies 55, 56 and 57. The unit, housed in tents at the Sarsawa Indian Air
> Force base near Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh and
> christened Special Group, operated under the RAW
> chief. raw wanted to train the unit's officers with SAS--
> SG officers had recommended it after a tour of the
> British agency's training facility at Hereford-but the government turned down the proposal, apparently due
> to the high training cost of £5,000 per trooper. SG
> improvised its own training regimen; being directly
> under the Prime Minister's Cabinet Secretariat helped.
> "We just had to ask for equipment and it would be
> given," recalls a former SG officer. A request for over 100 bulletproof vests and tactical helmets was met
> almost overnight and the gear flown in from Israel. SG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after
> it was aborted, for Bluestar. Foll
> 
> SG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after
> it was aborted, for Bluestar. Following Indira's
> assassination, SG men protected Prime Minister Rajiv
> Gandhi and his family until the government raised the
> Special Protection Group in 1985. Soon after, nearly 200
> SG personnel were deputed to a new anti-terrorist force under the Union home ministry, the National Security
> Guard. The Special Group remains RAW's ultra-secret
> military unit for clandestine intelligence missions, the
> equivalent of CIA's Special Activities Division.
> Here is some info i got abt SG. Dont know if posted b4. Sorry if repost and will remove it then.




If these arent fake, they are the first pics of the Special Group, right?


----------



## Unknowncommando

Koovie said:


> If these arent fake, they are the first pics of the Special Group, right?


taken from INDIATODAY .ya may b. I really dont know abt this topic deeply but doesnt look like fake. Though it is informative. And the pics are also real. Doesnt look NSG too.



Koovie said:


> If these arent fake, they are the first pics of the Special Group, right?


taken from INDIATODAY .ya may b. I really dont know abt this topic deeply just found it while random search so posted here. but doesnt look like fake. Though it is informative. And the pics are also real. Doesnt look like NSG too.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_Special group commandos
> train at their base in
> 
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> In early 1983, six army officers from a classified unit
> called the Special Group (SG) were flown to a secret
> base of Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli commando force that
> led the 1977 rescue of hostages from Entebbe airport in
> Uganda. The mission, coordinated by RAW with Mossad,
> was classified because India didn't have diplomatic ties with Israel and it did not want to anger its Arab friends.
> The officers trained in counter-terror-in carefully
> recreated landscapes of streets, buildings and vehicles-
> at the base near Tel Aviv for 22 days. The experience, an
> SG officer, now retired, recalls, was a culture shock for
> the Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see womethe Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see women
> guarding Israeli Defense Forces headquarters and
> soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in soldiers high-five their officers. The newly trained officers would soon come in handy.
> New Delhi was hosting two summits in 1983 that would
> burnish Indira Gandhi's standing as a global leader-the
> Non-Aligned Summit in March and the Commonwealth
> Heads of Government Meeting in November-and it was
> keen to prevent terrorist attacks of the sort that had bedevilled the West through the 1960s and 1970s. The
> summits passed without event under SG's watchful eye. SG was created in 1981. Till then, the Army had shown
> little interest in raising a specialised anti-terrorist force.
> So the government turned to the Directorate General
> Security, a covert unit set up by the Jawaharlal Nehru
> government with CIA's assistance after the 1962 war
> with China. The directorate, which had its own air wing, the Aviation Research Centre, and a paramilitary
> comprising Tibetans, the Special Frontier Force (SFF),
> was subsumed within raw when the external
> intelligence agency was created in 1968. In 1982, the
> directorate launched Project Sunray: It tasked a colonel
> of the Army's 10th Para/Special Forces to set up a unit of 250 officers and men, all Indians unlike SFF, in
> commando companies 55, 56 and 57. The unit, housed in tents at the Indian Air
> Force base near Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh and
> christened Special Group, operated under the RAW
> chief. raw wanted to train the unit's officers with SAS--
> SG officers had recommended it after a tour of the
> British agency's training facility at Hereford-but the government turned down the proposal, apparently due
> to the high training cost of £5,000 per trooper. SG
> improvised its own training regimen; being directly
> under the Prime Minister's Cabinet Secretariat helped.
> "We just had to ask for equipment and it would be
> given," recalls a former SG officer. A request for over 100 bulletproof vests and tactical helmets was met
> almost overnight and the gear flown in from Israel. SG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after
> it was aborted, for Bluestar. Foll
> 
> SG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after
> it was aborted, for Bluestar. Following Indira's
> assassination, SG men protected Prime Minister Rajiv
> Gandhi and his family until the government raised the
> Special Protection Group in 1985. Soon after, nearly 200
> SG personnel were deputed to a new anti-terrorist force under the Union home ministry, the National Security
> Guard. The Special Group remains RAW's ultra-secret
> military unit for clandestine intelligence missions, the
> equivalent of CIA's Special Activities Division.
> Here is some info i got abt SG. Dont know if posted b4. Sorry if repost and will remove it then.


Some pretty neat info there! 

Not sure about how credible those pics are, but if they are then they're the first pics of SG available on the net.



Don't think one should be stating where their base is/was...


----------



## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Just what I was thinking, from a practical perspective also to protect the operator's heads from flying debris. To me it doesn't look like those Gas Masks are likely to work in conjunction with the NSG's helmets and look of an oder design to the Gas masks I've seen other forces use today, perhaps they are quite old and in need of replacement (will probably happen sooner rather than later).







THIS HELMETS WILL WORK BETTER. GAS MASK AND BALLISTIC PROTECTION ALSO..DONT U THINK SO.?


----------



## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> THIS HELMETS WILL WORK BETTER. GAS MASK AND BALLISTIC PROTECTION ALSO..DONT U THINK SO.?




Seriously, who are theses guys? 

I have seen this pics for years.


----------



## Unknowncommando

Koovie said:


> Seriously, who are theses guys?
> 
> I have seen this pics for years.


THEY are MAHARASHTRA ATS OR MAY BE ANY QRT UNIT OF MAHARASHTRA STATE.BUT I AM NOT 100% SURE.COZ NO NAME IS GIVEN.I AM SEARCHING.


----------



## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> THEY are MAHARASHTRA ATS OR MAY BE ANY QRT UNIT OF MAHARASHTRA STATE.BUT I AM NOT 100% SURE.COZ NO NAME IS GIVEN.I AM SEARCHING.



If thats true, these MH police guys were better equipped than the NSG and most other special operation and anti terrorist forces in India


----------



## kurup

Unknowncommando said:


> THEY are MAHARASHTRA ATS OR MAY BE ANY QRT UNIT OF MAHARASHTRA STATE.BUT I AM NOT 100% SURE.COZ NO NAME IS GIVEN.I AM SEARCHING.



The image is from 2005 . Where were these guys when 26/11 happened ??


----------



## Unknowncommando

kurup said:


> The image is from 2005 . Where were these guys when 26/11 happened ??


thats what i am thinking who are they coz name mentioned at every image of them.Thats why i said i am not 100% sure.And this unit is surely INDIAN. The lady standing there is DR.SEEMA RAO a commando trainer and martial arts trainer.She trains ARMY COMMANDOS QRT ATS UNITS AND POLICE COMMANDOS.But the name of unit is still a mystery.


----------



## Mike_Brando

Unknowncommando said:


> thats what i am thinking who are they coz name mentioned at every image of them.Thats why i said i am not 100% sure.And this unit is surely INDIAN. The lady standing there is DR.SEEMA RAO a commando trainer and martial arts trainer.She trains ARMY COMMANDOS QRT ATS UNITS AND POLICE COMMANDOS.But the name of unit is still a mystery.


i am 100% sure that the above guys were members of the Mumbai Police Q.R.T.i did read about them in an articles a few years back but can't find it anymore


----------



## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
SPG during opening ceremony of commonwealth games

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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
guys check this out.Secong guy from right.JK POLICE SOG JAWAN WITH TAVOR

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> guys check this out.Secong guy from right.JK POLICE SOG JAWAN WITH TAVOR


Hmmm he looks like JKP SOG and not PARA (SF). Didn't know they had the TAR-21.


----------



## Indischer

kurup said:


> The image is from 2005 . Where were these guys when 26/11 happened ??



That cam may not have been set with the correct date. Possible, innit?


----------



## Koovie

Indischer said:


> That cam may not have been set with the correct date. Possible, innit?



I am sure that I ve been seeing that pic for years now

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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
_*



*_
MARCOS SAR OPS
_*



*
MARCO NOTICE AK WITH MARS SIGHT
*



*
GARUDS_

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## kurup

Indischer said:


> That cam may not have been set with the correct date. Possible, innit?



That's a real possibility .....


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> MARCOS SAR OPS


Not MARCOs, he's a member of the Iranian Navy. This was when an IN SAR mission MEDEVAC'd a member of an Iranian vessel.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Guys and gals just had another good chat with my uncle (ex 7 PARA) about his time in JK. will be posting what I can later tonight. Got some nice details on SF ops in particular but can't and won't share most of the info relating to this. Will post what I can.

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## Reviewer21

Abingdonboy said:


> Guys and gals just had another good chat with my uncle (ex 7 PARA) about his time in JK. will be posting what I can later tonight. Got some nice details on SF ops in particular but can't and won't share most of the info relating to this. Will post what I can.


You better keep sensitive things secret mate. You are lucky man!

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## Unknowncommando

SPG




PARA SF




ARMY PARATROOPERS







CRPF COBRA

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## kurup

*Navy’s Marine Commandos*





The need for Marine Commando (MARCOS) was first accepted in 1985 for the defence of offshore assets in Bombay High against clandestine attacks. The commandos’ task was to evict terrorists who had already taken over an oil production platform. Sanction was accorded for the raising of an “Indian Marine Special Force (IMSF)” and for commando version helicopters to fly them swiftly from Bombay to Bombay High.

Within two years their initial role widened. In end July 1987, the commandos accompanied the Indian Peacekeeping Force (IPKF) to Sri Lanka to deal with the secessionist LTTE’s marine elements that were operating in the shallow lagoons around Jaffna.

In 1989, the IMSF was renamed as the Marine Commando Force (MCF) and INS Abhimanyu became the parent (HQ) naval establishment for Chariot and Marine Commando operations. Abhimanyu is under the operational control of Flag Officer Maharashtra Area, who is responsible for the defence of Bombay.

In 1992, MARCOS East was formed and based at Vizag.

In order to infuse young blood, a voluntary category of commandos was introduced in 1995, termed as MARCO (General Duties) in addition to the existing MARCO (Advance) category who serve for 3 to 5 years.

The initial sanction for the IMSF was 38 officers and 373 sailors. In 1999, after seeing the effectiveness of the MCF in Operation Vijay during the Kargil war, sanction was accorded for an additional company of 29 officers and 246 sailors.

*MCF Organisation*

The MCF is organised as MARCOS East based at Vizag and MARCOS West based at Mumbai to cater for special operations on the Eastern and Western seaboards. In addition, one small MARCO unit has been based at Port Blair to meet the Special Ops requirements in the Andaman and Nicobar Command.




_The Marine Commando Badge_

To develop combat efficiency, the Special Forces of various Navies were studied. The Prahar concept was introduced in 1992. A Prahar consists of 8 commandos.

After qualifying as MARCOS, officers and sailors remain in the MARCO sub-cadre for 3 and 5 years respectively.

*Role and Training*

The roles of the MCF are:-

To conduct clandestine, surveillance & reconnaissance missions/operations and combat maritime terrorism.
To support amphibious operations and special force missions.
*Training*

MARCOS undergo 10 weeks basic training in INS Abhimanyu followed by a three week Basic Para course at the Army’s Para Training School at Agra. They also undergo a basic Combat Divers course.





Basic training includes handling of arms, ammunition and explosives, unarmed combat, close quarter battle, jungle warfare tactics, para-jumping, kayaking, photography, ship intervention drills, hostage rescue, and recapture of offshore installations, SAS/SBS and chariot operations.

On completion of basic training, MARCOS join designated ‘Prahars’ for ‘on job’ and vertically specialised advanced training in:-

The language and culture of likely adversary areas, to enable them to operate and survive behind enemy lines.
Sniper competence and training on shoulder-launched missiles, MMGs, etc.
Sky diving with water-para jump capability.
Counter insurgency.
Making Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) with readily available items.
For special operations on land, MARCOS are required to be deployable from the sea and from the air. In the advanced phase MARCOS are trained in beach, coastal, riverine and jungle warfare. Candidates for advance training must have qualified in static line and freefall. The MCF is one of a handful of units in the world that is capable of para-dropping into the sea with full combat load and equipment.





*Interaction with Other ‘Special Forces’*

In the initial years, a few officers underwent the Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) training in the United States. In 1996, MARCOS trained with SEALS of the US Navy and acquired capability for water-jumps-at-sea.1

To keep themselves combat ready, MARCOS participate in joint exercises and training with foreign and Indian Army Special Forces.

*Deployments between 1991 and 2000*

*1991* Operation Tasha. Two Prahars were deployed off the southern Tamil Nadu coast to interdict LTTE infiltration and the smuggling of arms and ammunition.

*1992* Operation Zabardust. MV Ahat, an LTTE vessel smuggling arms and ammunition was intercepted off Madras by MCF personnel. They boarded the vessel and captured all the mercenaries before LTTE sank the vessel.

*1993* United Nations Operation in Somalia. Four teams of MARCOS were deployed off Mogadishu in support of the Indian contingent in Somalia. The team provided Maritime Special Ops support to the Naval Task Force.

*1995* Operation Rakshak. Two to four teams of MARCOS are deployed round the year in Jammu & Kashmir, at Wular Lake. This 250 square km lake, surrounded by mountains, was being used freely by militants to reach Srinagar, saving them from having to travel 100 kms through the mountains. In 1995, a team of MARCOS was positioned at the lake and within weeks, militant activity on the lake ceased.

In subsequent years, in addition to meeting the requirement of deterring militants from using the Wular Lake, MARCOS started operating on land and Prahars killed several militants and recovered a large quantity of arms and equipment.

*1999* Kargil War. MARCOS assisted army operations during the Kargil war.

Navy’s Marine Commandos » Indian Defence Review

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## hkdas

new bulletproof jackets for garuds??


----------



## Koovie

hkdas said:


> new bulletproof jackets for garuds??




Cant see anything, do you have a higher resolution?


----------



## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Cant see anything, do you have a higher resolution?



no..i got it from a Facebook page...

look at the left one, u can see BJ.


----------



## Unknowncommando

hkdas said:


> no..i got it from a Facebook page...
> 
> look at the left one, u can see BJ.


I cant see any BPJ there .Just normal vests which they usually wear. I myself posted this pic few days before taken from SAINIK SAMACHAR.U can check previous pages. But no BPJ. It looks like that because of bulkyness of vest while running.That is what i guess.


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
_*



*_

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF


With pics like this you *must* cover their faces mate.


------------------------------------------
I saw a vid that has now been pulled down from YT where PARA (SF) seemed to have a new helmet:

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> k bro sorry for that i will


No worries bro, just for future reference


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> With pics like this you *must* cover their faces mate.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> I saw a vid that has now been pulled down from YT where PARA (SF) seemed to have a new helmet:



















galil sniper
i got these searching

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA




PARA SF




NSG




PARA



Abingdonboy said:


> With pics like this you *must* cover their faces mate.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> I saw a vid that has now been pulled down from YT where PARA (SF) seemed to have a new helmet:


HAPPY TO SEE THE FAST HELMET

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> With pics like this you *must* cover their faces mate.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> I saw a vid that has now been pulled down from YT where PARA (SF) seemed to have a new helmet:



can u post the link to that video bro...


----------



## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> can u post the link to that video bro...


Video was taken down bro....


----------



## jiki

here is the video enjoy  watch from 2.12






another spectacular vid with an awesome song + new bytes of PARAs

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## Koovie

jiki said:


>



Most of the footage is from the relatively old Nat Geo Mission Army


----------



## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> With pics like this you *must* cover their faces mate.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> I saw a vid that has now been pulled down from YT where PARA (SF) seemed to have a new helmet:



in that video that solder look like he is a Ghatak Commandos. are u sure he is a para commando(SF)??? @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR do u have any idea???


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> in that video that solder look like he is a Ghatak Commandos. are u sure he is a para commando(SF)??? @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR do u have any idea???


Para SF coz they are the only airborne wing in the IA plus you can see the M4 and Tavor.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> [quote="hkdas, post: 5500818, member: 143249]in that video that solder look like he is a Ghatak Commandos. are u sure he is a para commando(SF)??? @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR do u have any idea???


Para SF coz they are the only airborne wing in the IA plus you can see the M4 and Tavor.[/quote]
Bro the IA has airborne medics, sappers, arty, signallers, infantry etc all separate from the PARAs but airborne qualified and with maroon berets.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> Bro the IA has airborne medics, sappers, arty, signallers, infantry etc all separate from the PARAs but airborne qualified and with maroon berets.



I was comparing Para SF with Ghatak and other commando units.


----------



## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Para SF coz they are the only airborne wing in the IA plus you can see the M4 and Tavor.



bro, i was talking about this viedo. where is m4 in this ???


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, i was talking about this viedo. where is m4 in this ???


Ok...in this video there is a mix of Para SF and QRT/Ghatak


----------



## Unknowncommando

SOME OLD MARCOS PICS

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Unknowncommando said:


> HAPPY TO SEE THE FAST HELMET



Thts not a FAST helmet.


----------



## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARATROOPER

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## hkdas

paracommdos usning M4 with suppressor.... @Unknowncommando have any idea about that Optical sight?? looks like ACOG to me...any idea??

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> paracommdos usning M4 with suppressor.... @Unknowncommando have any idea about that Optical sight?? looks like ACOG to me...any idea??


Nice find!! Not seen PARA (SF) with a suppressor on their rifles (SMGs yes but not assault rifles) to date, I know they have them but just never seen a pic! 

The quality isn't great but am I seeing a telescopic sight or are my eyes failing me?


Any idea what video this is from? Look to be screenshots...


----------



## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice find!! Not seen PARA (SF) with a suppressor on their rifles (SMGs yes but not assault rifles) to date, I know they have them but just never seen a pic!
> 
> The quality isn't great but am I seeing a telescopic sight or are my eyes failing me?
> 
> 
> Any idea what video this is from? Look to be screenshots...



this video had already posted here....






SF is at 0:52

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## Gessler

hkdas said:


> this video had already posted here....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SF is at 0:52



The M4 shows up in 2 instances in this video. It definitely has a scope, I can see clearly in the 2nd showing.

BTW, what exactly was destroyed by the SAM at 1:15 ?


----------



## hkdas

Gessler said:


> The M4 shows up in 2 instances in this video. It definitely has a scope, I can see clearly in the 2nd showing.
> 
> BTW, what exactly was destroyed by the SAM at 1:15 ?











no idea bro...


----------



## danish_vij

Gessler said:


> BTW, what exactly was destroyed by the SAM at 1:15 ?


i guess it was lakshya target drone....that what we often use for target practice as we cant put a plane there

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## Custer

danish_vij said:


> i guess it was lakshya target drone....that what we often use for target practice as we cant put a plane there


Seems like a balloon with a small target.....


----------



## Koovie



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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
SPG CAT

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> SPG CAT




Nice work!  Looking forward for a version for the NSG, Marcos, Garuds and Paras


----------



## hkdas

BLACK ACE is a diver propulsion transporter (DPT) from OPCON Marine PTE Ltd. from Singapore. The producer quotes that the BLACK ACE is the new generation of underwater transporter with a high trust-to-weight ratio that should increase the diver speed and performance. The system is made of lightweight composite materials that should also reduce the detection signature. It can speed up a diver up to 5 knots with a system weight of 15 kg. The system can be packed and transported in a normal back pack. The controller for the system is designed to be mounted on the rifle’s rail, so the diver is always ready to fight. All system components can be changed under water, also the batteries. At cruising speed the batteries are good for an operation of up to 60 min., a recharge takes max. 90 min. It can be used up to a depth of 100 m. Right now* it is in trials with the Special Forces of Singapore and the Indian Navy.*
Black ACE comes in two versions, a leg mount/rebreather configuration (depth 40 m/15 kg/60 min.) and a scuba tank mounted configuration (100 m).

MILITARY TECHNOLOGY: ISDEF2013: Speed Up Your Navy Diver with OPCON Marine's BLACKACE

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## Unknowncommando

Koovie said:


> Nice work!  Looking forward for a version for the NSG, Marcos, Garuds and Paras


i am working on it. All the pics will b ready in 1 week. Will post another in two days.

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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
NSG

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## Gessler



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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
Indian Army PARA SF

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> NSG




Awesome mate! Keep up the splendid work


----------



## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
IAF GARUDS

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> IAF GARUDS


Nice job, keep em coming


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## Unknowncommando

_*




*_
INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## StormShadow

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> IAF GARUDS


Excellent work!! Cant believe these are our guys!

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS


Nice work yet but all I would say is that:







Are believed to be SPB and NOT MARCOs.


----------



## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice work yet but all I would say is that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are believed to be SPB and NOT MARCOs.



Was about to say the same thing...nevertheless it's an excellent compilation.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> i didnt include that pics of spb personnel from INS SAHYADRI. Bcoz many people says they arent marcos. But i didnt know abt this pic that they are spb or marcos. If they are spb then next time i wont include them in my pics. But the gear is same of both then if once we use spb pic. So it wont make any big diff. So take it easy bro.


I understand bro I just think it makes sense to be accurate but I understand where you are coming from. It has been confirmed the guys in this pic as SPB because the guy who originally snapped this pic (PSK) talked to them any they confirmed they were SPB and NOT MARCOs.



Gessler said:


> Was about to say the same thing...nevertheless it's an excellent compilation.


Indeed, terrific!

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## Koovie

I guess the next one is a about the Paras?


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## Unknowncommando

Koovie said:


> I guess the next one is a about the Paras?


yes bro working on it. But few pics are to be confirmed.@Abingdonboy @Gessler guys u should tell me correct things if i am wrong. I didnt include pics of SPB guys from INS SAHYADRI if u notice. Coz i herd abt that. But i didnt hrd a single word abt the above pic that they are spb. Otherwise i would not have included that one. Next time i will replace it with another one. Do tell if i am wrong. U guys are my seniors. I am just a 17 year old angry young man.:p not man boy.:p@Abingdonboy can u please post that pic of para comdo in ice with tavor. Remember from ur last vid. It will help me in my pic.

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## hkdas

many IN officials says that guys in INS SAHYADRI are personals from QRT of marcos...



Unknowncommando said:


> yes bro working on it. But few pics are to be confirmed.@Abingdonboy @Gessler guys u should tell me correct things if i am wrong. I didnt include pics of SPB guys from INS SAHYADRI if u notice. Coz i herd abt that. But i didnt hrd a single word abt the above pic that they are spb. Otherwise i would not have included that one. Next time i will replace it with another one. Do tell if i am wrong. U guys are my seniors. I am just a 17 year old angry young man.:p not man boy.:p@Abingdonboy can u please post that pic of para comdo in ice with tavor. Remember from ur last vid. It will help me in my pic.


----------



## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> yes bro working on it. But few pics are to be confirmed




Ok good to hear that  BTW, have you seen that pic with a group of Paras armed with Tavors and wearing black diving suits? 

I tried hard to find it, but I cant :/


----------



## Unknowncommando

Koovie said:


> Ok good to hear that  BTW, have you seen that pic with a group of Paras armed with Tavors and wearing black diving suits?
> 
> I tried hard to find it, but I cant :/


yup i have that since it was posted on livefist first time . By the way i was abt to ask here that is that pic of para or marco. But then i looked to red dot sight. And then realised that they are paras. But thanks for ur try bro.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> yes bro working on it. But few pics are to be confirmed.@Abingdonboy @Gessler guys u should tell me correct things if i am wrong. I didnt include pics of SPB guys from INS SAHYADRI if u notice. Coz i herd abt that. But i didnt hrd a single word abt the above pic that they are spb. Otherwise i would not have included that one. Next time i will replace it with another one. Do tell if i am wrong. U guys are my seniors. I am just a 17 year old angry young man.:p not man boy.:p@Abingdonboy can u please post that pic of para comdo in ice with tavor. Remember from ur last vid. It will help me in my pic.


Less of the "senior" title bro, I am barely 3 years older than you! And which picture are you talking about specifically regarding PARA (SF)? 

All I am saying is that when one is talking of matter regarding the Indian Mil one should aim to be projecting the most accurate information possible. I am sick of the nonsense I see on the Indian Military where things are mislabelled and units misreported. This is just my personal preference.

Having said that you are doing great work mate, keep it up 



hkdas said:


> many IN officials says that guys in INS SAHYADRI are personals from QRT of marcos...


I'm sorry but it doesn't makes sense for them to be MARCOs at all, fleet security is NOT one of the MARCOs day to day jobs but IS one of the SPB's. As I've said, the person who clicked this snap has categorically said they are SPB as he talked to the men in the pic.


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Less of the "senior" title bro, I am barely 3 years older than you! And which picture are you talking about specifically regarding PARA (SF)?
> 
> All I am saying is that when one is talking of matter regarding the Indian Mil one should aim to be projecting the most accurate information possible. I am sick of the nonsense I see on the Indian Military where things are mislabelled and units misreported. This is just my personal preference.
> 
> Having said that you are doing great work mate, keep it up
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but it doesn't makes sense for them to be MARCOs at all, fleet security is NOT one of the MARCOs day to day jobs but IS one of the SPB's. As I've said, the person who clicked this snap has categorically said they are SPB as he talked to the men in the pic.


(1) about senior word. I was jst kidding.
(2) about pic. Remember ur last vid title is INDIAN ARMY last thing and i have seen something something like that. A para cdo wearing a white camo standing on ice his hand on knee wearing goggs and little layer of ice on his tavor.
(3) about accuracy. Yes i too always try to be accurate, real and perfect abt IND MIL. But failed sometimes coz i dont have that much knowledge and experience that u guys have. So i used word senior. So take it easy bro. I will replace the pic with another one soon.


----------



## Mike_Brando

Unknowncommando said:


> yes bro working on it. But few pics are to be confirmed.@Abingdonboy @Gessler guys u should tell me correct things if i am wrong. I didnt include pics of SPB guys from INS SAHYADRI if u notice. Coz i herd abt that. But i didnt hrd a single word abt the above pic that they are spb. Otherwise i would not have included that one. Next time i will replace it with another one. Do tell if i am wrong. U guys are my seniors. I am just a 17 year old angry young man.:p not man boy.:p@Abingdonboy can u please post that pic of para comdo in ice with tavor. Remember from ur last vid. It will help me in my pic.


The operative in the picture 5th from the last(left wise) wearing a full fledged diver's suit and carrying a Mp-5 is that of a Polish GROM.It's being confirmed by the Polish members in an Indian forum....

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## Unknowncommando

Mike_Brando said:


> The operative in the picture 5th from the last(left wise) wearing a full fledged diver's suit and carrying a Mp-5 is that of a Polish GROM.It's being confirmed by the Polish members in an Indian forum....


but bro we have the same model if u remember that ndtv episode of marcos. But ok i will replace it too. Thanks for the info mate.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> (1) about senior word. I was jst kidding.
> (2) about pic. Remember ur last vid title is INDIAN ARMY last thing and i have seen something something like that. A para cdo wearing a white camo standing on ice his hand on knee wearing goggs and little layer of ice on his tavor.
> (3) about accuracy. Yes i too always try to be accurate, real and perfect abt IND MIL. But failed sometimes coz i dont have that much knowledge and experience that u guys have. So i used word senior. So take it easy bro. I will replace the pic with another one soon.


I'll post that pic later for you bro.

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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando here you are:









Some background to this pic, the man pictured is Maj Mohit Sharma of 1 PARA (SF) who was killed in CI ops in JK in 2009. Formerly pictures of him in combat scenarios keep getting taken down by MoD but I have saved this pic to my hard drive. Here is a very lovely video his family created in tribute to him, again it keep getting taken down and this has been uploaded by some third party:





You can see the transformation he undergoes from clean cut to terrorist-lookalike must have been involved in some undercover ops as part of his postings.

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## Unknowncommando

_*



*_
INDIAN ARMY PARA COMMANDOS

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> INDIAN ARMY PARA COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRAS GOT NEW GREEN BERETS

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> @Unknowncommando here you are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some background to this pic, the man pictured is Maj Mohit Sharma of 1 PARA (SF) who was killed in CI ops in JK in 2009. Formerly pictures of him in combat scenarios keep getting taken down by MoD but I have saved this pic to my hard drive. Here is a very lovely video his family created in tribute to him, again it keep getting taken down and this has been uploaded by some third party:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the transformation he undergoes from clean cut to terrorist-lookalike must have been involved in some undercover ops as part of his postings.




There is no undercover thingy... its like an SOP... Even our troops in operational areas are sanctioned "long hair n beards" .. to blend in n other stuff...


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There is no undercover thingy... its like an SOP... Even our troops in operational areas are sanctioned "long hair n beards" .. to blend in n other stuff...


Bro how do you even know? Indian SOFs are known to have done this. I read his bio before it was taken down/edited by the IA and it specifically said he had worked in such roles...

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## Yeti

God bless his soul. he died protecting the motherland I salute him.

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## Kompromat

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro how do you even know? Indian SOFs are known to have done this. I read his bio before it was taken down/edited by the IA and it specifically said he had worked in such roles...



Maybe the guy is a sikh.

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## Abingdonboy

Aeronaut said:


> Maybe the guy is a sikh.


Nope:





Major Mohit Sharma


Sir look at the the vid in post 3797 ^^^^


----------



## Hindustani

Aeronaut said:


> Maybe the guy is a sikh.




Sharma is a Brahmin last name. 

Salute to this brave soldier, may he rest in peace.


----------



## Kompromat

Abingdonboy said:


> Nope:
> 
> 
> Major Mohit Sharma
> 
> Sir look at the the vid in post 3797 ^^^^



Taken. Though it doesn't have to be an SOP, or a properly defined tactic. While you see long haired, long bearded soldiers in SSG all the time, you also have clean shaved, military haircut bearers. It seems more down to a personal choice than being a properly defined tactic. In some scenarios perhaps yes though on when needed basis.


----------



## FNFAL

Aeronaut said:


> Taken. Though it doesn't have to be an SOP, or a properly defined tactic. While you see long haired, long bearded soldiers in SSG all the time, you also have clean shaved, military haircut bearers. It seems more down to a personal choice than being a properly defined tactic. In some scenarios perhaps yes though on when needed basis


We can understand SSG folks having beard. That's the hallmark of a nice devoted muslim.
Sadly that is not the case in the major's case. He had no religious obligation or a personal preference to stay shabby. It is not a new thing for indian CI operatives who for a long time have looked close to their enemies

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## Kompromat

FNFAL said:


> We can understand SSG folks having beard. That's the hallmark of a nice devoted muslim.
> Sadly that is not the case in the major's case. He had no religious obligation or a personal preference to stay shabby. It is not a new thing for indian CI operatives who for a long time have looked close to their enemies



Not necessarily. There is a blackops unit that does the hard work, guiding airstrikes, assassinating targets and so on. For them its a must have as they need to 'embed inside' the people they are fighting.

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## FNFAL

Aeronaut said:


> Not necessarily. There is a blackops unit that does the hard work, guiding airstrikes, assassinating targets and so on. For them its a must have as they need to 'embed inside' the people they are fighting.


Aren't we pointing to the same thing? Look like your enemy?
The same is applicable here too.Those in contact with the enemy should not stick out.

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## Kompromat

FNFAL said:


> Aren't we pointing to the same thing? Look like your enemy?
> The same is applicable here too.Those in contact with the enemy should not stick out.



The difference is in my quotation marks and i won't elaborate more on that.


----------



## FNFAL

Aeronaut said:


> The difference is in my quotation marks and i won't elaborate more on that


And i wont dissect the word 'covert' and its implications. Lets end it here.

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## AUz

indian special forces?


----------



## Pak_Sher

Vegetarian Special Forces.


----------



## noksss

AUz said:


> indian special forces?


Pakistan special forces? 

Now What

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## AUz

noksss said:


> Pakistan special forces?
> 
> Now What




lmao....

you're cute


----------



## third eye

Pak_Sher said:


> Vegetarian Special Forces.



Silly thoughtless remark

Did it make a difference to Osama what the people who shot him ate when he was shot inside Pakistan ?

Also, the dietary preferences of Indian troops mattered none when they went ahead and occupied the Quaid post now renamed Bana post or all of Siachen for that matter.

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## noksss

AUz said:


> lmao....
> 
> you're cute



lmao....

you're not cute

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Pak_Sher said:


> Vegetarian Special Forces.


Still look who have their maps changed from 1947-2014!

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## Gessler

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Still look who have their maps changed from 1947-2014!



Losers look for excuses.

Winners look ahead into the future.

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## Koovie

AUz said:


> *indian special forces? *


@Pak_Sher
*Why so pissed off ?.... your immature way of commenting shows your obsession and desperation. *

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
ANY IDEA ABOUT THIS HELMET

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS AND IA PARAS

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## Mike_Brando

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 27656
> View attachment 27657
> View attachment 27658
> View attachment 27659
> View attachment 27660
> View attachment 27661
> View attachment 27662
> View attachment 27663
> View attachment 27664
> View attachment 27665
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
> ANY IDEA ABOUT THIS HELMET


Mate these are lightweight special forces bike helmets,U.S.Rangers use them for many years now.
PT Helmets, Military Helmets, Bravo Helmets, Pro-Tec, NFL Helmets, Bike  Helmets, Water Helmets

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA COMMANDOS DURING OPERATION IN JANGLOTE VILLAGE OF KATHUA DISTRICT.JAMMU AND KASHMIR.







INDIAN ARMY PARATROOPERS IN LADAKH

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING AN EXERCISE LAST YEAR IN MUMBAI

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 27845
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING AN EXERCISE LAST YEAR IN MUMBAI



in 2013??? are u sure?? marcos had changed there camouflage pattern from black to UCP in 2010.... and also that pics looks old





Marco AADESH KUMAR being awarded Shaurya Chakra.

Based on intelligence inputs of presence of 4-5 militants in Chehar village located at an altitude of approximately 2500m above sea level,a joint operation was launched by a team of 9 ParaSF ,27 RR and Marcos to neutralize the militants.

On 13 December 2012 on completion of 48 hr surveillance mission the team was tasked to return to the detachment and MARCOS team was tasked to carry out a search of a nearby location from where a satellite intercept had been obtained.Suddenly the Marcos team came under heavy fire from automatic weapons and grenades from terrorists hiding in the thick vegetation . Realizing the danger to the team,Marco Adesh Kumar with utter disregard to personal safety charged towards militant group firing rapidly from his LMG Negev.During the charge Marco Adesh was hit by militant bullets in stomach and legs.Despite grievous injuries and excessive bleeding he continued the charge towards the militants.In the process not only the enemy fire was suppressed but one hardcore militant was also killed.

Marco Adesh Kumar displayed professional acumen, comradeship and raw courage in fighting the terrorists.

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 27845
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING AN EXERCISE LAST YEAR IN MUMBAI



Awesome find! They look superb and simply badass  

PS: Is that you ?^^

*PS: Wait, did anyone else notice that crossbow on the back of the 1st MARCOS operator? *
*




*
@hkdas They are a SF unit, I guess they use more than one camo pattern

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 27845
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING AN EXERCISE LAST YEAR IN MUMBAI


Awesome! Any more pics bro?



Koovie said:


> PS: Wait, did anyone else notice that crossbow on the back of the 1st MARCOS operator?


Indeed, a little surprised they still use it! 

A pic from the 80s:


----------



## Unknowncommando

Here is the larger pic
@hkdas 100% sure bro the pic is from last year's mock drill ex.And talking about camo on a exercise they can wear any camo.Sometimes they dont have bullets in their mags on mock drill ex.then camo is nothing.Just a drill.
@Koovie that guy standing there is not me i am not that much fat D I am a fit guy.
the bow and arrow gun is the first thing i saw.It is the only thing which is shining there.
@Abingdonboy bro I am searching more pics and now i am in contact with an Indian Navy official who works on IN warship.I asked him to send me MARCOS pics.Hopefully we will get more MARCOS pics soon.Just got this one while random search.



hkdas said:


> paracommdos usning M4 with suppressor.... @Unknowncommando have any idea about that Optical sight?? looks like ACOG to me...any idea??


bro will u post these pics again i cant see anything. plzz if u can.

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> @Koovie that guy standing there is not me i am not that much fat D I am a fit guy.
> the bow and arrow gun is the first thing i saw.It is the only thing which is shining there.



Now I am relieved, I feared that was your tummy

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## Unknowncommando

SPG CAT
SORRY FOR THE BAD QUALITY TAKEN FROM VID

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 27892
> View attachment 27893
> View attachment 27894
> View attachment 27895
> View attachment 27896
> 
> SPG CAT
> SORRY FOR THE BAD QUALITY TAKEN FROM VID


Looks like NDTV right bro? which vid?


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Looks like NDTV right bro? which vid?


that in which sonia gandhi and sushil kumar shinde visits bodhgaya temple


























INDIAN AIR FORCE GARUDS

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## anyrandom

And why is Sonia Maino Gandhi getting SPG protection? Who is she? Is she the PM of India or the immediate family of the PM? 
How can the president of a political party gets SPG cover? India is really a big joke....

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## RPK

@Unknowncommando Video please for IAF gaurds


----------



## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> And why is Sonia Maino Gandhi getting SPG protection? Who is she? Is she the PM of India or the immediate family of the PM?
> How can the president of a political party gets SPG cover? India is really a big joke....


It's been this way for a long time mate it shouldn't be surprising to you. The Gandhis are an exception when it comes to SPG cover theoretically it should only be PMs and former PMs with SPG cover and I am all for stripping the SPG cover from the Gandhis entirely. I honestly don't believe the threat to them is that high to warrant the services of the SPG.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS
@RPK

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 27911
> View attachment 27912
> View attachment 27913
> View attachment 27914
> View attachment 27915
> View attachment 27916
> View attachment 27917
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS
> @RPK




From where do you have those MARCOS pisc?

And how are they going to aim with their sights covered?


----------



## Unknowncommando

here u can clearly see the supressor on M4




























INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 27911
> View attachment 27912
> View attachment 27913
> View attachment 27914
> View attachment 27915
> View attachment 27916
> View attachment 27917
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS
> @RPK



Brilliant MARCOS pics, bro!

Someday, I just wanna find a good pic of MARCOS in digital camo, witth INSTAVEST/similar model, knee/elbow pads,
ballistic helmet with camo, gas mask, tactical gloves and a TAR-21/MCIWS in hand.

Then I'm ready to die.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
@Koovie SAME VID FROM ABING POSTED PICs that NDTV ANDAMAN command if u remember he missed those ones
ENJOY THE PICS GUYS

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Awesome! Any more pics bro?
> 
> 
> Indeed, a little surprised they still use it!
> 
> A pic from the 80s:



Its actually from the 90s..

Anyways here is another:






A simulated hostage scenario aboard the amphibious command ship USS Blue Ridge.


----------



## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its actually from the 90s..
> 
> Anyways here is another:
> 
> View attachment 27953
> 
> 
> A simulated hostage scenario aboard the amphibious command ship USS Blue Ridge.



He`s not a MARCO, he is an armed sailor from an VBSS team.


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its actually from the 90s..
> 
> Anyways here is another:
> 
> View attachment 27953
> 
> 
> A simulated hostage scenario aboard the amphibious command ship USS Blue Ridge.


Not MARCOs, member of the VBSS team of an IN ship from a few years ago.


----------



## Vinayak Tiwari

for the Pakistani members - SSG IS THE BEST for the Indian members - NSG or any other special force is the best
come on guys we can only know who's better when they'll fight each other and which is to any extent not possible in near future,. We cannot fight like this to get an answer. And also for every one on defence.pk , there country's soldiers are the best for them and we should respect that



Water Car Engineer said:


> It seems the common Indian soldiers is also getting ballistic helmets and better bullet proof jackets.
> 
> 
> 
> Bulletproof jackets for troops - The Times of India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MSMC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *mp7*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They look different enough.


well i think Kalantak will also fit in with the SFs

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## Koovie

Vinayak Tiwari said:


> well i think Kalantak will also fit in with the SFs



Nah I doubt that, I would pick a M4 over it any day. The Katalank weighs 3.6 kg without a mag, while the M4 weighs around the same with a 30 round magazine.
Ordnance Factory Board
Colt M4 Carbine


----------



## hkdas

Koovie said:


> From where do you have those MARCOS pisc?
> 
> And how are they going to aim with their sights covered?






marcos in 13:18



Gessler said:


> Brilliant MARCOS pics, bro!
> 
> Someday, I just wanna find a good pic of MARCOS in digital camo, witth *INSTAVEST*/similar model, knee/elbow pads,
> ballistic helmet with camo, gas mask, tactical gloves and a TAR-21/MCIWS in hand.
> 
> Then I'm ready to die.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG OLD PICS




















MARCOS OR WHICH UNIT. MY FRD SENT ME THIS PIC.HE WAS SAYING THAT THESE ARE MARCOS.THEY HAVE SAME GEAR BUT NO ARM INSIGNIA MARINE COMMANDO PATCH THERE.BUT LOOKS LIKE MARCOS.
IN MARCOS

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


>




Looks great! Which company is producing them=?


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Looks great! Which company is producing them=?


 MKU

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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> It's been this way for a long time mate it shouldn't be surprising to you. The Gandhis are an exception when it comes to SPG cover theoretically it should only be PMs and former PMs with SPG cover and I am all for stripping the SPG cover from the Gandhis entirely. I honestly don't believe the threat to them is that high to warrant the services of the SPG.



Yeah and the most important thing is the respect for institutions. Such cronyism affects the health of institutions. In America if someone powerful has a threat then won't get Secret Service cover but they will get total protection under FBI agents or some other police teams. Gandhi's could have been easily protected by Delhi Police commandos or other paramilitary organizations.


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
FROM AAJ TAK VID

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 28271
> View attachment 28272
> View attachment 28273
> View attachment 28275
> View attachment 28276
> View attachment 28277
> View attachment 28279
> View attachment 28280
> View attachment 28281
> View attachment 28282
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
> FROM AAJ TAK VID




Nice find

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 28271
> View attachment 28272
> View attachment 28273
> View attachment 28275
> View attachment 28276
> View attachment 28277
> View attachment 28279
> View attachment 28280
> View attachment 28281
> View attachment 28282
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
> FROM AAJ TAK VID


The fact the PARA (SF) is transitioning to the USMC's woodland MARPAT digicam is clear....

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARATROOPERS

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## spectribution

I miss those Jaamatis who would post random pics of their SF to feel good and stop hurting.

@Desertfighter?


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## Koovie

spectribution said:


> I miss those Jaamatis who would post random pics of their SF to feel good and stop hurting.
> 
> @Desertfighter?



Why are you starting this nonsense again? 

Just ignore them and they will ignore you...........

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## Gessler

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando I've always wanted to ask this...how difficult is it to aim properly with those paintball drums on top?



Abingdonboy said:


> The fact the PARA (SF) is transitioning to the USMC's woodland MARPAT digicam is clear....



I've always liked MARPAT on CRPF CoBRAs. Happy that Para SF is getting them to.

I hope the IA infantry too settles with various versions of MARPAT, woodland, desert etc.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando I've always wanted to ask this...how difficult is it to aim properly with those paintball drums on top?


The drum housing the paintballs is fixed just off the centreline allowing for one to still look down the iron sights of the weapon. These paintball weapons are only used for CQB training as they have very limited range and are pretty inaccurate as is. 



Gessler said:


> I've always liked MARPAT on CRPF CoBRAs. Happy that Para SF is getting them to.
> I hope the IA infantry too settles with various versions of MARPAT, woodland, desert etc.


Indeed, the IA has always been lacking a standard issue desert camo and has never issued one to the infantry for reasons that still allude me. Seeing IA troops running around in the deserts in woodland camo has always been confusing and frustrating to me. The MARPAT family is arguably the best such camos out there and will be great to see as the standard camo for the Indian Mil as a whole.


it also comes with an arctic/snow variant:







Again, would come in very handy for the Indian Mil (although to be fair all troops needing white/arctic uniforms are issues as such to day).

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## Koovie

Ceonwulf said:


> Indian Special "Needs" Forces.



What? 

And here we go..........


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## Unknowncommando

better than bluring his face i gave him mask 























INDIAN NAVY MARINE COMMANDOS MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## Vinayak Tiwari

Koovie said:


> Nah I doubt that, I would pick a M4 over it any day. The Katalank weighs 3.6 kg without a mag, while the M4 weighs around the same with a 30 round magazine.
> Ordnance Factory Board
> Colt M4 Carbine


no i doubt that, the MOD will be opting for an indigenous rifle which would be Kalantak for 100% sure.


----------



## Koovie

Vinayak Tiwari said:


> no i doubt that, the MOD will be opting for an indigenous rifle which would be Kalantak for 100% sure.



The MoD does not decide that... that would be completely retarded. 

The MARCOS get what suits them best. 

And the M4 is way better and tested by dozens of SF units in the world than the obese Katalank which is still a prototype.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG MOCK DRILL







Look at new vest and modern helmet of NSG commandos of bomb squad

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## Zarrar Alvi

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 28293
> View attachment 28294
> View attachment 28295
> View attachment 28297
> View attachment 28298
> View attachment 28299
> View attachment 28300
> View attachment 28301
> View attachment 28302
> View attachment 28303
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF


yea Para CDO our old friends


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 29857
> 
> NSG MOCK DRILL
> View attachment 29860
> View attachment 29862
> 
> Look at new vest and modern helmet of NSG commando


Bro, this is just for the EOD guys in the NSG, that vest is too bulky for operators and is designed for bomb tech not assaulters similarly I doubt this helmet is for all NSG only for the EOD guys.


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, this is just for the EOD guys in the NSG, that vest is too bulky for operators and is designed for bomb tech not assaulters similarly I doubt this helmet is for all NSG only for the EOD guys.


i didnt say this was for assualters i meant to say improved gear for NSG bomb squad forgot to mention bomb squad there .How can they use this much bulky vests.I was just saying that this is better than gear of NSG which they were using b4.so chill bro









INDIAN ARMY PARA SF




INDIAN AIR FORCE GARUDS SF

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## RPK

IAF Gaurds

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## Koovie

Does somebody got the knowledge to correct the misinformation spread on Wikipedia concerning the MARCOS `?
MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Especially those 2 pics which are showing VBSS Teams.


----------



## Abingdonboy

SPG:

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## Informant

Koovie said:


> Does somebody got the knowledge to correct the misinformation spread on Wikipedia concerning the MARCOS `?
> MARCOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Especially those 2 pics which are showing VBSS Teams.



What? Why do these guys have these Sten machine pistols/?


----------



## Koovie

Informant said:


> What? Why do these guys have these Sten machine pistols/?



They are OFB made Sterlings, not Sten guns. And I also have no clue why they still use them


----------



## Informant

Koovie said:


> They are OFB made Sterlings, not Sten guns. And I also have no clue why they still use them



Jeez MP5 atleast. Comeon, you guys are a very rich force. Do some justice, these are important maritime assets. Not VIPs who can be disposed off


----------



## Koovie

Informant said:


> Jeez MP5 atleast. Comeon, you guys are a very rich force. Do some justice, these are important maritime assets. Not VIPs who can be disposed off



True, but maybe these are enough for hunting somali pirates and after all, these are just regular sailors and fighting CQBs is not their main job. 

But you`re right, some MP5`s would be better suited.


----------



## hkdas

Koovie said:


> True, but maybe these are enough for hunting somali pirates and* after all, these are just regular sailors and fighting CQBs is not their main job*.
> 
> But you`re right, some MP5`s would be better suited.



no mate they are our VBSS team.... i think they are now equipped with tavor.. CQB is their primary job....


----------



## Koovie

hkdas said:


> no mate they are our VBSS team.... i think they are now equipped with tavor.. CQB is their primary job....



I know that they are part of VBSS teams. I was referring to the pics which state they are MARCOS.

And BTW, the guys you are referring to are neither MARCOS nor VBSS guys, they are from the SPB of the IN which are responsible for coastal security


----------



## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> I know that they are part of VBSS teams. I was referring to the pics which state they are MARCOS.
> 
> And BTW, the guys you are referring to are neither MARCOS nor VBSS guys, they are from the SPB of the IN which are responsible for coastal security


Bro, SPB's role is NOT coastal protection this is a misconception, that is the responsibility of the marine police, ICG and IN depending on distance from the Indian coast. You can't protect the Indian coastline with 2,000 men can you? Added to that why would the IN raise a force less able (they have short legged FICs only) than the ICG? Anyway the SPB's role is Force Protection for the Indian Navy. In that sense they protect all IN shore based assets and IN vessels when docked in India.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, SPB's role is NOT coastal protection this is a misconception, that is the responsibility of the marine police, ICG and IN depending on distance from the Indian coast. You can't protect the Indian coastline with 2,000 men can you? Added to that why would the IN raise a force less able (they have short legged FICs only) than the ICG? Anyway the SPB's role is Force Protection for the Indian Navy. In that sense they protect all IN shore based assets and IN vessels when docked in India.



Fair enough , got the info from a 30 seconds wikipedia research ^^

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Fair enough , got the info from a 30 seconds wikipedia research ^^


As you know yourself bro (post 3874) Wiki is HIGHLY inaccurate when it comes to Indian Mil. And to be fair i've seen a lot of Indian media outlets spewing this nonsense about the SPB being a coastal protection force but if you actually think about it that is so illogical.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos at BJP HQ
Deployed in Prime Minister's Security .
NSG COMMANDOS AT MODI RALLY
JAI MODI
MORE TO COME

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG COMMANDOS AT MODI RALLY
> JAI MODI
> MORE TO COME



russian helmets..


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> russian helmets..


How did you figure that out? And whats there to lol?
*Bullet Proof Headgear From TATA*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> How did you figure that out? And whats there to lol?
> *Bullet Proof Headgear From TATA*




Does it look like that? or this?











Another pic from india:

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## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Does it look like that? or this?
> 
> View attachment 30877
> 
> 
> View attachment 30885
> 
> 
> Another pic from india:
> 
> View attachment 30887


So you confirmed that those were Russian helmets just because they looked same? Yes,they could be Russian ones,there was a NSG Tender recently to procure BPJs,Helmets and stuff. But do you have a source to confirm it? Those Tata helmets are used in the armed forces too. And whats there to lol?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> So you confirmed that those were Russian helmets just because they looked same? Yes,they could be Russian ones,there was a NSG Tender recently to procure BPJs,Helmets and stuff. But do you have a source to confirm it? Those Tata helmets are used in the armed forces too. And whats there to lol?



Those are surely not tatas .. unless they started producing them aswell.. as for LOL... coz they look wierd n are bulky...


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Those are surely not tatas .. unless they started producing them aswell.. as for LOL... coz they look wierd n are bulky...


Kindly edit them before some one comes with such a 'lol' post on some Pakisantani stuff and all the hell breaks down.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

acetophenol said:


> Kindly edit them before some one comes with such a 'lol' post on some Pakisantani stuff and all the hell breaks down.



You are welcome:

Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 53

why get so touchy?


----------



## acetophenol

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You are welcome:
> 
> Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW. | Page 53
> 
> why get so touchy?


I was just trying to be a good boy deserty


----------



## danish_vij

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> russian helmets..


so what if they are russian??
why making fun


----------



## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG commandos at BJP HQ
> Deployed in Prime Minister's Security .
> NSG COMMANDOS AT MODI RALLY
> JAI MODI
> MORE TO COME












*

Here`s the video*
Shiv Aroor's post on Vine



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> russian helmets..



Kid, first of all they are not Russian.

Secondly, whats wrong with Russian helmets?

*Thirdly and most importantly, the NSG buys and gets what they like most... no matter from where its from. And whether armchair generals like you like it or not does not count a fu** *

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG commandos at BJP HQ
> Deployed in Prime Minister's Security .
> NSG COMMANDOS AT MODI RALLY
> JAI MODI
> MORE TO COME








is that the same helmet marcos and NSG uses ????

why don't they use this one??




helmet manufactured by MKU.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Koovie said:


> Kid, first of all they are not Russian.



Actually L.Ron jr .. they are... its just that you are ignorant when it comes to weapons n stuff.. or probably blind.. coz its a 6B7 helmet..




> Secondly, whats wrong with Russian helmets?



Secondly did i say something that made you so .....hurt? and yes its my fkin opinion n observation that they are big n bulky 

*Thirdly and most importantly, the NSG buys and gets what they like most... no matter from where its from. And whether armchair generals like you like it or not does not count a fu** *[/quote]


Whether it counts on not.. surely your *** is on fire just bcoz of 1 post...

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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> *Here`s the video*
> Shiv Aroor's post on Vine



YouTube link:

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS 
SOME SNAPSHOTS FROM THAT VIDS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS
@hkdas bro i dont know why they are not using modern helmets but they have got in few nos and the process is going on.Marcos are using same helmets which they use usually. and they are totally diff than that russian type helmets of NSG which are good.In that pic of marcos the helmet looks bulky only and only bcoz of camo covr on it and nsg have diff helmets but due to black cover on they both look same.But they are two diff helmets i am 100% sure.Jo dikhta vo hota nahi bhai.

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> @hkdas bro i dont know why they are not using modern helmets but they have got in few nos and the process is going on.Marcos are using same helmets which they use usually. and they are totally diff than that russian type helmets of NSG which are good.In that pic of marcos the helmet looks bulky only and only bcoz of camo covr on it and nsg have diff helmets but due to black cover on they both look same.But they are two diff helmets i am 100% sure.Jo dikhta vo hota nahi bhai.



that helmet used by NSG is not Russian one, they use this one:






but what i don't understand is why they don't use more advanced helmets that our companies are offering them?? MKU have also FAST helmets, but none of our SF uses them...


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG commandos at BJP HQ
> Deployed in Prime Minister's Security .
> NSG COMMANDOS AT MODI RALLY
> JAI MODI
> MORE TO COME


Must be the Counter Assault Team of Modi's security. 


Great find!! Keep them coming bro!

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 30955
> View attachment 30957
> View attachment 30958
> View attachment 30959
> 
> NSG COMMANDOS
> @hkdas bro i dont know why they are not using modern helmets but they have got in few nos and the process is going on.Marcos are using same helmets which they use usually. and they are totally diff than that russian type helmets of NSG which are good.In that pic of marcos the helmet looks bulky only and only bcoz of camo covr on it and nsg have diff helmets but due to black cover on they both look same.But they are two diff helmets i am 100% sure.Jo dikhta vo hota nahi bhai.


The helmets the NSG use aren't outdated or old just the Russian design. They are still new and offer decent protection but I guess people associate new with the Western design. 



hkdas said:


> but what i don't understand is why they don't use more advanced helmets that our companies are offering them?? MKU have also FAST helmets, but none of our SF uses them...


Agreed, FAST helmets on the NSG in black would look kick-a$$! AFAIK PARA (SF) are getting such helmets, don't know about MARCOs, GARUDs or NSG. However both MARCOs and NSG have their own individual modernisation programs running so who knows what can change in a couple of years....

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> *i didnt said russian helmet i said russian type helmets means russian style. take a look at my post again bro*. means they look almost similar.



sorry my mistake.



Abingdonboy said:


> The helmets the NSG use aren't outdated or old just the Russian design. They are still new and offer decent protection but I guess people associate new with the Western design.
> 
> 
> Agreed, FAST helmets on the NSG in black would look kick-a$$! AFAIK PARA (SF) are getting such helmets, don't know about MARCOs, GARUDs or NSG. However both MARCOs and NSG have their own individual modernisation programs running so who knows what can change in a couple of years....



.bro, do u have any pics of para SF with fast helmets???/


----------



## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> .bro, do u have any pics of para SF with fast helmets???/


----------



## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


>











but why don't they have those accessories
bro, do u know from which company they brought this??? is these are form MKU???


----------



## Abingdonboy

Found a vid of MMS arriving at Rashtrapati Bhavan to resign:








You can see the SPG's vehicles there- X5s, 7 Series, Merc Sprinter van and there emus be a TATA Safari jammer around somewhere..

Another one:







2.00, that cavalcade is so bada$$! Love the bit when the X5s are accelerating and you get to hear those V6s really grunt.

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## Abingdonboy

More of MMS's cavalcade:

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> but why don't they have those accessories
> bro, do u know from which company they brought this??? is these are form MKU???


The PARA (SF) seem to have put a cloth cover over these helmets so who knows what is underneath? And no idea what company these are from.


----------



## Abingdonboy

NSG at BJP HQ in Delhi:

Shiv Aroor's post on Vine












@Unknowncommando

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS

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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Secondly did i say something that made you so .....hurt? and yes its my fkin opinion n observation that they are big n bulky



Hurt? You are the only butthurt person here.... Read you first childish and pointless comment again "Russian helmets  "

As I said, these guys know what fits them best and have access to anything they want.

OT: I now also think that they are Russian helmets, apparently they are ZSH-1 helmets used by Russian Special Forces

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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Hurt? You are the only butthurt person here.... Read you first childish and pointless comment again "Russian helmets  "
> 
> As I said, these guys know what fits them best and have access to anything they want.
> 
> OT: I now also think that they are Russian helmets, apparently they are ZSH-1 helmets used by Russian Special Forces




no it is not 

ZSH-1 helmet...













NSG's helmet


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> russian helmets..


What's so funny?


----------



## Abingdonboy

NSG from 1.00:








@Unknowncommando Should be able to get some nice screenshots from that one bro.

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## anyrandom

500 SPG guards to guard Narendra Modi - The Economic Times

500 SPG personnels will guard Narendra Modi as he faces the highest security threat.

*Although Modi already had a tight security cover, it was of SPG level only in name since the SPG cover comes with added layers of security like a dedicated aircraft at home and abroad, armoured bullet-proof BMWs and support of various SPG wings. *
Interesting.

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## hkdas

both are same kind of helmets??.....


----------



## Span

*NEW DELHI* — India is likely to establish a unified Special Forces Command as the Defence Ministry is considering a two-year-old recommendation by a select committee to strengthen its “clandestine” fighting ability, a ministry source said.

Can refer to the link if you want to read more: Support Rises for Unified Indian Spec Ops Command | Defense News | defensenews.com


----------



## Abingdonboy

Span said:


> *NEW DELHI* — India is likely to establish a unified Special Forces Command as the Defence Ministry is considering a two-year-old recommendation by a select committee to strengthen its “clandestine” fighting ability, a ministry source said.
> 
> Can refer to the link if you want to read more: Support Rises for Unified Indian Spec Ops Command | Defense News | defensenews.com


Whilst I am 100% for the Indian SOCOM and welcome all news related to it, Defence News has a rather strange and annoying habit of dragging up/covering years old stories. This report by them doesn't seem to signal anything new, hopefully the next Govt/Def Min will see this proposal moving foreword more along with the other 2 proposed Tri-Services commands of Cyber warfare and Aerospace.


----------



## Koovie

Paratroopers raking a *Pekiti-Tirsia Kali lesson

BTW: *Is Pekiti Tirsia Kali the main hand to hand fighting technique for Indian SF? I know that a couple of organizations use Krav Maga.



















7

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PTK is the main hand to hand combat system of the PARA SF and NSG.

GARUDS do Krav Maga and I dont know about MARCOS.

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## Informant

Koovie said:


> Paratroopers raking a *Pekiti-Tirsia Kali lesson
> 
> BTW: *Is Pekiti Tirsia Kali the main hand to hand fighting technique for Indian SF? I know that a couple of organizations use Krav Maga.



Stock in rooms clearing/CQC should be at it's minimal position. Elongated/stretched only hinder horizontal movement.


----------



## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PTK is the main hand to hand combat system of the PARA SF and NSG.
> 
> GARUDS do Krav Maga and I dont know about MARCOS.



no bro... only macos do Krav Maga. army SF, nsg and garuds follow PTK... nsg and garuds follows army style of Hand to hand combat. garud's training is done at army SF training school. in fact marcos was the 1st force who bring Krav Maga to indian Security forces... now SPG, goa police and marcos do train Krav Maga. goa police only get trained in civilian version of Krav Maga.



Informant said:


> Stock in rooms clearing/CQC should be at it's minimal position. Elongated/stretched only hinder horizontal movement.



it is shooter preference...


----------



## Informant

hkdas said:


> no bro... only macos do Krav Maga. army SF, nsg and garuds follow PTK... nsg and garuds follows army style of Hand to hand combat. garud's training is done at army SF training school. in fact marcos was the 1st force who bring Krav Maga to indian Security forces... now SPG, goa police and marcos do train Krav Maga. goa police only get trained in civilian version of Krav Maga.
> 
> 
> 
> it is shooter preference...



Maybe, but he aint tall or got long arms. I say after been through a CQC simulation once, i just did because i could and well i gotta try errthing that involves a gun.

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## Abingdonboy

news of GOA: NSG TEAM DEFUSSES ABOUT 30 BOMBS AT THE BLAST SITE

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## Abingdonboy

NSG at 4.00 and throughout intermittently:

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## Abingdonboy

SPG:

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## NACIONALISTA

Informant said:


> Stock in rooms clearing/CQC should be at it's minimal position. Elongated/stretched only hinder horizontal movement.


Perhaps it is just for posing purposes.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> SPG:




the ducks?

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## NACIONALISTA

Koovie said:


> 7


What pistol is that man holding in black in the last pic??


----------



## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> the ducks?


Yeah sure.



----------------------------------------------------



SPG:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

NACIONALISTA said:


> What pistol is that man holding in black in the last pic??



http://rfi.nic.in/Pistol_9mm.htm

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## NACIONALISTA

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah sure.


BMW??? My favorite German car brand along with Mercedes-Benz.


----------



## Abingdonboy

NACIONALISTA said:


> BMW??? My favorite German car brand along with Mercedes-Benz.


BMW 7 Series Security for PM's car, X5 Security for escorts and Mercedes Banz Sprinter van for ambulance.

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## NACIONALISTA

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 32039


Looks similar to Colt 1911 .45 ACP 

Is this available for civilian purchase through registered and legal retailers??



Abingdonboy said:


> BMW 7 Series Security for PM's car, X5 Security for escorts and Mercedes Banz Sprinter van for ambulance.


Have to say, Indian gov.t officials have good taste in cars.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

NACIONALISTA said:


> Is this available for civilian purchase through registered and legal retailers??



buy a better handgun man...


----------



## Abingdonboy

NACIONALISTA said:


> Is this available for civilian purchase through registered and legal retailers??


Not in India.



NACIONALISTA said:


> Have to say, Indian gov.t officials have good taste in cars.



Nothing to do with Indian officials, the SPG (the executive protection agency) are the ones who pick the vehicles.

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## NACIONALISTA

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> buy a better handgun man...


I'm a Glock fan, but love every type of hand gun, even old school western revolvers. If i see a hand gun i've never seen before then i have to find out about it.



Abingdonboy said:


> Not in India.


Is it only manufactured in india?





Abingdonboy said:


> Nothing to do with Indian officials, the SPG (the executive protection agency) are the ones who pick the vehicles.


They have good taste.

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## Abingdonboy

NACIONALISTA said:


> They have good taste.


The BMW 7 series Security is easily the best off the shelf Head of State vehicle money can buy second only to the "Beast" of POTUS perhaps. The X5s and Merc Sprinter can are a nice choice though and compliment the entire cavalcade well- very classy all in all.

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## Gessler

NACIONALISTA said:


> What pistol is that man holding in black in the last pic??



Browning Hi-Power


----------



## Koovie

NACIONALISTA said:


> What pistol is that man holding in black in the last pic??


Browning Hi-Power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS
@Abingdonboy bro here we go.I downloded highest quality vid but couldnt get gud quality screenshots as they were moving.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## RPK

*@Unknowncommando post video*

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## noksss



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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Abingdonboy

SPG:







NSG:

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG:




Awesome  

Cant wait to see more from them..... let alone what we will see in a couple of years

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## Unknowncommando

OLD PIC OF PARA SF commando IN KASHMIR

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## Unknowncommando

nsg commandos

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## spectribution

Abingdonboy said:


> SPG:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG:



Does Kasab and Co want to play Counter Strike Global Offensive with these chaps?

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## sms

spectribution said:


> Does Kasab and Co want to play Counter Strike Global Offensive with these chaps?



Nah, those are coward scum ... only dare to kill innocent unarmed people. 

Let's stay focused and keep discussions related to topic on hand.

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## RPK

@Unknowncommando post video for Para SF


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## Abingdonboy

The BMW PM Modi is driving around in now is NOT the 7 series MMS had. The 7 Series Security Modi has is the new 2014 face-lifted version, the MMS & series was from 2012. Good that the SPG are giving Modi the best possible security.


The 2013/14 facelift is very subtle compared to the 2010 model but the key differentiator is headlights:

BMW of MMS:






2012 7 Series:







For Modi:











2013/14 7 Series:






Full-LED headlights^^

The differences are also in the grill.



Additionally on Modi's new 2014 7 Series there is a dash-mounted LED emergency lights:












Some vids where the SPG's PM convoy are shown:

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## Abingdonboy

Can see the Renualt Sherpa in action! (crappy quality is annoying but still cool that we finally get a vid of this!) Also get to see the NSG's Netra Micro-UAV.


@Koovie @Unknowncommando @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## Unknowncommando

A Garud Commando explaining about weapon systems to college students




CRPF COBRA




@RPK

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> A Garud Commando explaining about weapon systems to college students



Cool, never seen a Garud not in combat fatigues before.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Manmohan Singh departs 7 RCR for the last time:

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## RPK



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## RPK



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## spectribution

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>



Nyc


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## Abingdonboy

Garuds at a University:

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## hkdas

Indian Army Special Forces For New 9mm Pistol

The Indian Army has put out a request for information (RFI) for new semi-automatic 9mm (9x19) pistols for its Special Forces and Parachute units. According to the RFI document, the Army has detailed that it is looking for a weapon that has "the option of fixing on a laser and a high intensity flash light.





The Indian Army has put out a request for information (RFI) for new semi-automatic 9mm (9x19) pistols for its Special Forces and Parachute units. According to the RFI document, the Army has detailed that it is looking for a weapon that has "the option of fixing on a laser and a high intensity flash light. It should be light weight, easy to carry and operate, robust pistol with which a Para Trooper should be able to carry out static line and free fall parachute jumps with the weapon on person/packed in the rucksack/weapon container."

The SF and Para units currently have Austrian Glock 17 and and Belgian firm Fabrique Nationale de Herstal's (FN) FN-35 9mm pistols. According to sources, the Army is expecting responses from a lot of companies which include Israeli Military Industries (SP-21 Barak) and German firm Carl Walther GmbH Sportwaffen (Walther P99).

Defence News - Indian Army Special Forces For New 9mm Pistol


----------



## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> Indian Army Special Forces For New 9mm Pistol
> 
> The Indian Army has put out a request for information (RFI) for new semi-automatic 9mm (9x19) pistols for its Special Forces and Parachute units. According to the RFI document, the Army has detailed that it is looking for a weapon that has "the option of fixing on a laser and a high intensity flash light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Indian Army has put out a request for information (RFI) for new semi-automatic 9mm (9x19) pistols for its Special Forces and Parachute units. According to the RFI document, the Army has detailed that it is looking for a weapon that has "the option of fixing on a laser and a high intensity flash light. It should be light weight, easy to carry and operate, robust pistol with which a Para Trooper should be able to carry out static line and free fall parachute jumps with the weapon on person/packed in the rucksack/weapon container."
> 
> The SF and Para units currently have Austrian Glock 17 and and Belgian firm Fabrique Nationale de Herstal's (FN) FN-35 9mm pistols. According to sources, the Army is expecting responses from a lot of companies which include Israeli Military Industries (SP-21 Barak) and German firm Carl Walther GmbH Sportwaffen (Walther P99).
> 
> Defence News - Indian Army Special Forces For New 9mm Pistol


Nope, this isn't for SF- this is for regular IA units.I read this exact article from another source and that article had clear pointed out this was for REGULAR IA and that the SFs had their own SEPARATE competition running.


Defence news is just making things up now then instead of merely reporting late and exaggerating these day?


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDOS DURING AN OPERATION AT JANGLOTE VILLAGE ,KATHUA DISTRICT,JAMMU AND KASHMIR

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## RajputWarrior



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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 34130
> View attachment 34131
> View attachment 34132
> View attachment 34133
> View attachment 34135
> View attachment 34136
> View attachment 34137
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDOS DURING AN OPERATION AT JANGLOTE VILLAGE ,KATHUA DISTRICT,JAMMU AND KASHMIR



Different camo patterns, different helmets, different BPJ`s etc etc

Oh dear.... ^^

The IA should start trying to introduce a new camo pattern for all its units.


----------



## RajputWarrior



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## special

paracommandos............

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## Aepsilons

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 34130
> View attachment 34131
> View attachment 34132
> View attachment 34133
> View attachment 34135
> View attachment 34136
> View attachment 34137
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDOS DURING AN OPERATION AT JANGLOTE VILLAGE ,KATHUA DISTRICT,JAMMU AND KASHMIR




Very interesting design in helmets for the Paracommandos. Tactical shock resistant?


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> paracommandos............


Cool, anymore?


Is this training or live ops?


----------



## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Cool, anymore?
> 
> 
> Is this training or live ops?


it is just a training....

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## special

Joint Indo-Afghanistan Special Forces Exercise 2014

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## Koovie

special said:


> Joint Indo-Afghanistan Special Forces Exercise 2014




Nice find dude  Have never seen this camo in the IA. 

PS: Damn, I hate those Gypsys ^^

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## special

Koovie said:


> Nice find dude  Have never seen this camo in the IA.
> 
> PS: Damn, I hate those Gypsys ^^



those Gypsys are customized for special forces.. it have very low noise, it is very easy to hide, being small it is very hard to detect.


----------



## Abingdonboy

special said:


> those Gypsys are customized for special forces.. it have very low noise, it is very easy to hide, being small it is very hard to detect.


That may well be but clearly there are better vehicles out thee and these Gypsys need replacing.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Nice find dude  Have never seen this camo in the IA.
> 
> PS: Damn, I hate those Gypsys ^^


This camo is only used by Desert Scorpions.

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> That may well be but clearly there are better vehicles out thee and these Gypsys need replacing.



yes they are going to replaced...


----------



## RPK



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## Unknowncommando

para commando during uttarakhand relief ops







CRPF COBRA COMMANDOS

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Cool NSG footage with Sherpa but the news channel calls them "SPG"

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Cool NSG footage with Sherpa but the news channel calls them "SPG"



Where is the Sherpa, I could not find it


----------



## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Where is the Sherpa, I could not find it


3.20 bro, but only on screen for literally 2 seconds:











COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Cool NSG footage with Sherpa *but the news channel calls them "SPG"*


That really is unforgivable! I mean how retarded do you have to be to do that? You don't have to know anything about defence matters just watch the footage and you'd see they are clearly NSG.

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## RPK



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## Abingdonboy

CISF prepares to become NSG substitute for VIP security - The Times of India

GREAT NEWS

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## IndoUS

Abingdonboy said:


> CISF prepares to become NSG substitute for VIP security - The Times of India
> 
> GREAT NEWS


Would the PM still keep his NSG protection or even that is changing?


----------



## Abingdonboy

IndoUS said:


> Would the PM still keep his NSG protection or even that is changing?


You mean Modi? Nope. Since the 1980s the PM of India has always been exclusively protected by the SPG and not the NSG and that will remain the same.

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## IndoUS

Abingdonboy said:


> You mean Modi? Nope. Since the 1980s the PM of India has always been exclusively protected by the SPG and not the NSG and that will remain the same.


I thought he was given NSG protection after the election decision, so it was temporary.


----------



## Abingdonboy

IndoUS said:


> I thought he was given NSG protection after the election decision, so it was temporary.


He was given SPG cover the moment he became PM of India. He has had NSG cover since 2002. NSG cover is given to those with Z+ security threat perception and there are around 12-15 such protectees in India with NSG cover. SPG is purely for the PM and former PMs.

The SPG bro, watch :

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## Koovie

IndoUS said:


> Would the PM still keep his NSG protection or even that is changing?



The PM is protected by the SPG and not the NSG

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## Abingdonboy

Special Protection Group (CAT):

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## Indischer

Abingdonboy said:


> Special Protection Group (CAT):


Why do they have _Police_ emblazoned on their vests?


----------



## Abingdonboy

Indischer said:


> Why do they have _Police_ emblazoned on their vests?


For ease of identification and they are a civilian police unit, no member of the general public would will have a clue what the "Special Protection Group" were.


The US Secret Service:

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## RPK



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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


>


VBSS team bro.

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## Jason bourne

RPK said:


>




Not Special Force Its Navy's VBSS Visit Board Search and Seizures. .

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## Unknowncommando

Indian Navy MARCOS

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## nair

Watched this programme in RSTV Yesterday....... Amazing stuff. Interesting points were

1) Firing simulator
2 ) Training on crawling across live firing
3) Training to drivers ( I loved the way the spun an Ambassador)

Couldn't find the whole video, only got the promo.....

@Abingdonboy


----------



## Rahul9090

nair said:


> Watched this programme in RSTV Yesterday....... Amazing stuff. Interesting points were
> 
> 1) Firing simulator
> 2 ) Training on moving across live firing
> 3) Training to drivers ( I loved the way the spun an Ambassador)
> 
> Couldn't find the whole video, only got the promo.....
> 
> @Abingdonboy

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## Koovie

Rahul9090 said:


>




Nice find, but the narrator sucks so hard, it almost hurts..


----------



## nair

Koovie said:


> Nice find, but the narrator sucks so hard, it almost hurts..



Thats the reason most why these channels are not watched by many.....

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## Koovie

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando 

Whats your opinion on this secret NSG sub unit called Phantom Commandos? 

Maybe they are the ones testing new tech, gear and tactics?


----------



## Abingdonboy

nair said:


> Watched this programme in RSTV Yesterday....... Amazing stuff. Interesting points were
> 
> 1) Firing simulator
> 2 ) Training on crawling across live firing
> 3) Training to drivers ( I loved the way the spun an Ambassador)
> 
> Couldn't find the whole video, only got the promo.....
> 
> @Abingdonboy





Rahul9090 said:


>



Sadly not a great insight into the NSG, but perhaps this is intentional- the narrator pointed to the fact the NSG were being very secretive and many details were classified.

Real shame no room intervention drills were shown mostly just training/selection of recruits which in itself is pretty dull.



Koovie said:


> Nice find, but the narrator sucks so hard, it almost hurts..


Better than that Rajiv guy at NDTV!


@Koovie

first time I am hearing about this "Phantom" squad/category I'd really like to know how this fits in with the NSG's deployment i.e. what are these guys used for?

Perhaps you are right, they act as a test bed for the new stuff (equipment and tactics) but the narrator also mentioned that that 1% attaining "Phantom" status were moved on to more advanced training so it seems they have an operational role. Perhaps used as air marshals? Instructors? Foreign liaisons?

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR any thoughts?

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## noksss



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## Jason bourne

noksss said:


>




Garud or Para ?


----------



## noksss

Jason bourne said:


> Garud or Para ?



I took it from the Indian army Fans website . Unfortunately they havent mentioned the Unit


----------



## hkdas

noksss said:


> I took it from the Indian army Fans website . Unfortunately they havent mentioned the Unit


it is garud commandos...




garud commandos in 2:05


----------



## hkdas

someone pls tell me about that garud commandos gun in 4:58


----------



## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> someone pls tell me about that garud commandos gun in 4:58


A mix of Tavors and Galils.

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## hkdas

very old pics of marcos jumping form chopper....

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## Unknowncommando

@Koovie tha vid was awesome and many new things this time.And talking about the phantom unit i think theh rr the best of th best of NSG. My frd is in Force One unit just met him few days b4. He is working and training along with NSG so i am trying to get in contact with him.I will share if i got new info.@Abingdonboy i think ur ryt gro phantoms are given new stuffs and traning level looks lyk increased as they r saying only 1% can b phantoms. Thats the best thing in d vid. Sadly no sherpha this time too. Bro plzz post some cool screenshots of this vid. Try to get high quality.

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## Abingdonboy

National Security Guards (NSG):

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> A mix of Tavors and Galils.



precisely it is sr-99 sniper rifle.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Sadly not a great insight into the NSG, but perhaps this is intentional- the narrator pointed to the fact the NSG were being very secretive and many details were classified.
> 
> Real shame no room intervention drills were shown mostly just training/selection of recruits which in itself is pretty dull.
> 
> 
> Better than that Rajiv guy at NDTV!
> 
> 
> @Koovie
> 
> first time I am hearing about this "Phantom" squad/category I'd really like to know how this fits in with the NSG's deployment i.e. what are these guys used for?
> 
> Perhaps you are right, they act as a test bed for the new stuff (equipment and tactics) but the narrator also mentioned that that 1% attaining "Phantom" status were moved on to more advanced training so it seems they have an operational role. Perhaps used as air marshals? Instructors? Foreign liaisons?
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR any thoughts?


To create secret pool of cream of the crop operators of the Army for deploying in highly classified ops.The base is probably in the foothills of Himalayas.The NSG is gonna come completely under Army soon.



Jason bourne said:


> Garud or Para ?


Garuds


----------



## Jaanbaz

They look well armed.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> To create secret pool of cream of the crop operators of the Army for deploying in highly classified ops.


The IA is capable of doing this itself without outsourcing this to the NSG surely- why get the NSG involved at all?



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The base is probably in the foothills of Himalayas.The NSG is gonna come completely under Army soon.


I seriously doubt this bro, even though the SAG is 100% made up of IA operators, the NSG as a force comes under MHA/civilian control and are thus a civilian/police CT unit as is the norm for such units all across the world. Putting this force under Army control would serve little utility IMHO and would be a drain on the IA's resources whilst right now the NSG is funded from the MHA's annual budget. The situation as it is is looking ever more promising- the SRG is being cut back on, the number of protectees is being cut and the CISF is being lined up to take over much of the NSG's VVIP protection tasks. The NSG is getting back to its original CT mandate meaning more of its budget goes to SAG. The reason the SPG is easily the best equipped Police unit in India is because it has the highest dollar budget to unit operator ratio of any CAPF. The smaller the NSG gets (by reducing SRG) the better equipped the SAG will get.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The IA is capable of doing this itself without outsourcing this to the NSG surely- why get the NSG involved at all?
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt this bro, even though the SAG is 100% made up of IA operators, the NSG as a force comes under MHA/civilian control and are thus a civilian/police CT unit as is the norm for such units all across the world. Putting this force under Army control would serve little utility IMHO and would be a drain on the IA's resources whilst right now the NSG is funded from the MHA's annual budget. The situation as it is is looking ever more promising- the SRG is being cut back on, the number of protectees is being cut and the CISF is being lined up to take over much of the NSG's VVIP protection tasks. The NSG is getting back to its original CT mandate meaning more of its budget goes to SAG. The reason the SPG is easily the best equipped Police unit in India is because it has the highest dollar budget to unit operator ratio of any CAPF. The smaller the NSG gets (by reducing SRG) the better equipped the SAG will get.


NSG goes there to train with the other secret units.Rest is all rumours so i wont be putting my weight behind the NSG arguements.


----------



## sms

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> To create secret pool of cream of the crop operators of the Army for deploying in highly classified ops.The base is probably in the foothills of Himalayas.The NSG is gonna come completely under Army soon.



it does not make any sense to get an civilian force under IA.
IA do not need NSG to carry out any type of mission. e.g. RR is doing wonders in CT missions, also Army SF ( including Para and intelligence) are very well equipped and trained for any theater or any mission.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

sms said:


> it does not make any sense to get an civilian force under IA.
> IA do not need NSG to carry out any type of mission. e.g. RR is doing wonders in CT missions, also Army SF ( including Para and intelligence) are very well equipped and trained for any theater or any mission.



Thats not what i was trying to say.Army doesn't want NSG operators to be under IPS officers who are incapable of planning these types of operations and are inexperienced for this kind of warfare.


----------



## sms

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thats not what i was trying to say.Army doesn't want NSG operators to be under IPS officers who are incapable of planning these types of operations and are inexperienced for this kind of warfare.



There is a solution (exchange program) already in place and effective.
Army officers are deputed to various orgs. as consultant to train and help other groups to to prepare SOPs and training programs.

Also note that IPS selection process is very though and what we get are best candidates, Them with training in proper hands can and will be able to conduct such operations.

Have some faith in our institutions!


----------



## Abingdonboy

sms said:


> There is a solution (exchange program) already in place and effective.
> Army officers are deputed to various orgs. as consultant to train and help other groups to to prepare SOPs and training programs.
> 
> Also note that IPS selection process is very though and what we get are best candidates, Them with training in proper hands can and will be able to conduct such operations.
> 
> Have some faith in our institutions!


The IPS officers he mentions wrt the NSG ONLY constitute the very top brass of the NSG (as a whole) the SAG is 100% made up of IA men in both operational and command positions.

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## sms

Abingdonboy said:


> The IPS officers he mentions wrt the NSG ONLY constitute the very top brass of the NSG (as a whole) the SAG is 100% made up of IA men in both operational and command positions.



Exactly!!
That's what I intend to say, that there is on shortage of experience and skills in NSG.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The IPS officers he mentions wrt the NSG ONLY constitute the very top brass of the NSG (as a whole) the SAG is 100% made up of IA men in both operational and command positions.


JK DUTTA in incharge of 26/11 NSG team was not from the Army.


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## Jason bourne

Went to gujrat CM house yesterday have seen gujrat police in safari suit carring HK mp5k One of the man I though is NSG because he was with modi all the time (seen in many pics ) but to my surprise he is also from gujrat police isnt NSG when modi is in Z+ security should be arround him ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jason bourne said:


> Wserved gujrat CM house yesterday have seen gujrat police in safari suit carring HK mp5k One of the man I though is NSG because he was with modi all the time (seen in many pics ) but to my surprise he is also from gujrat police isnt NSG when modi is in Z+ security should be arround him ?


He has kept a few people from Gujrat police who have served with him in the past.


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Went to gujrat CM house yesterday have seen gujrat police in safari suit carring HK mp5k One of the man I though is NSG because he was with modi all the time (seen in many pics ) but to my surprise he is also from gujrat police isnt NSG when modi is in Z+ security should be arround him ?


The NSG were deployed for his security along with Gujarat police, his PSO (personal security officer)- the one always closet to Modi (before he received SPG cover) in a Safari suit, was from GP. There was talk this PSO would become the lead security officer for Modi's personal security team in the SPG but afaik this has happened and the lead security officers are SPG and the same ones Dr MMS had when he was PM.


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## Jason bourne

Abingdonboy said:


> The NSG were deployed for his security along with Gujarat police, his PSO (personal security officer)- the one always closet to Modi (before he received SPG cover) in a Safari suit, was from GP. There was talk this PSO would become the lead security officer for Modi's personal security team in the SPG but afaik this has happened and the lead security officers are SPG and the same ones Dr MMS had when he was PM.



What about the gun didnt know that GP uses HK. ?


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> What about the gun didnt know that GP uses HK. ?


Most police forces in India will have such weapons especially for their specialist units.


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## hkdas

Indian Navy marcos taking a break after 40 Kms "SPEED MARCH".....
Pic dates back to late 1990s.

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## special



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## special

http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-newspaper/india-set-to--give-sock--to-terror.html

*INDIA SET TO GIVE SOC(K) TO TERROR*
Sunday, 13 July 2014 | Rahul Datta | New Delhi

_The Government is likely to give the go-ahead for setting up a Special Operations Command (SOC) to counter terrorism and conduct unconventional warfare and covert operations in the country and the neighbourhood. The Defence Ministry has approved the SOC in principle and the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), chaired by the Prime Minister, will take the final call shortly._

*Headed by a Lieutenant-General, the proposed command will report to the National Security Advisor (NSA) and Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) and will work closely with the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) as the commandos may have to carry out strategic strikes outside Indian boundaries.*

It will be somewhat patterned on the lines of the US Special Operations Command, which took out Osama Bin Laden in its Abbottabad operation, and is engaged in “war on terror”. The US Command works in tandem with the CIA, which gives the crucial Intelligence inputs in war zones of Afghanistan and other parts of the world. It did so even during the Iraq campaign.

Based on the real time Intelligence, the Navy SEAL and Green Beret commandos of the US have carried out several known and many clandestine operations in Afghanistan and Africa. While strategic strikes in Afghanistan were against the Taliban, targeted “killings” in Africa were against the Al Qaeda.

The 14-member Naresh Chandra Taskforce on National Security in its recommendations submitted to the Prime Minister in 2012 had suggested setting up three commands, including Special Operations, Cyber and Aerospace, to keep abreast with the fast changing nature of war fighting.

_The proposal to have the Special Operations Command gathered momentum after Army Chief General Bikram Singh, who is also Chairman Chiefs of Staff Committee, gave a detailed presentation about it to Prime Minister Narendra Modi last month, sources said here on Saturday._

_The three Services have already done the ground work and submitted the plan for raising the new Command to the Defence Ministry some months back but the general elections delayed the process as the then UPA Government did not want to take a major policy decision of this nature towards the fag end of its tenure_, officials said.

*The Prime Minister will meet the three Services chiefs later this month to review the SOC proposal before discussing it in the CCS, sources said*.* Modi has already decided to interact with the chiefs every month to gain first-hand knowledge about operational preparedness and problems faced by the Armed Forces including slow pace of modernisation.*

_Batches of commandos of Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy and Garud of IAF will be integrated to deal with “out of area” contingencies like warding off any threat to remote islands in Andaman & Nicobar and other such regions in the Indian Ocean_.

*Phase-I of setting up the SOC will involve an amalgamation of manpower and assets of the three Services. Phase-II will see modifications in standard operating procedures (SOPs), once the Command gets operational, sources said. While the three Services have agreed to have such a command for effective response to any threat without losing time, they will continue to operate in their assigned domains, officials said.*

_Elaborating upon it, officials said the Special Forces of the Army will continue to carry out anti-insurgency and counter-terrorist operations in Jammu & Kashmir and the North-East besides specialised tasks._

At present, the Special Forces have eight battalions (one battalion has 1,000 men) and they have vast experience of operating in jungles of the North-East, Jammu & Kashmir and as part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) in Sri Lanka.

The one battalion strong MARCOS, raised in the early 1980s, is engaged in anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden. A small detachment is engaged in counter-terrorism in Kashmir and deployed at Wular Lake near Srinagar. Its commandos came to limelight for the first time when they took on terrorists for the first few hours after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks in 2008. MARCOS also took part in some operations during the IPKF deployment in Sri Lanka.

With a view to guarding its airfields and assets like state-of-the-art fighter jets and other sensitive equipment, the IAF raised Garud Commando Force five years back. While the role of these commandos is more or less static, the SOC may see them playing a bigger role, sources said.

*Once the Command gets going, the three Services propose to gradually withdraw their commandos and favour the new set-up to have its own trained manpower, sources said. However, the Government may not agree as raising a new force will require huge funds. The Government may opt for a small but effective and flexible SOC with commandos from Army, Navy and IAF serving short tenures before returning to their parent organisations, officials said*.

_As for the command structure of the SOC, a Lt-General will head it and equivalent rank officers from IAF and Navy will head the Space and Cyber Commands. Given the expertise in commando operations, the Army will head the SOC while Space Command will have an IAF officer as chief while a Navy officer will be at the helm of the Cyber Command, they said.

India set to give SOC(K) to terror_

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-newspaper/india-set-to--give-sock--to-terror.html
> 
> *INDIA SET TO GIVE SOC(K) TO TERROR*
> Sunday, 13 July 2014 | Rahul Datta | New Delhi
> 
> _The Government is likely to give the go-ahead for setting up a Special Operations Command (SOC) to counter terrorism and conduct unconventional warfare and covert operations in the country and the neighbourhood. The Defence Ministry has approved the SOC in principle and the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), chaired by the Prime Minister, will take the final call shortly._
> 
> *Headed by a Lieutenant-General, the proposed command will report to the National Security Advisor (NSA) and Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) and will work closely with the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) as the commandos may have to carry out strategic strikes outside Indian boundaries.*
> 
> It will be somewhat patterned on the lines of the US Special Operations Command, which took out Osama Bin Laden in its Abbottabad operation, and is engaged in “war on terror”. The US Command works in tandem with the CIA, which gives the crucial Intelligence inputs in war zones of Afghanistan and other parts of the world. It did so even during the Iraq campaign.
> 
> Based on the real time Intelligence, the Navy SEAL and Green Beret commandos of the US have carried out several known and many clandestine operations in Afghanistan and Africa. While strategic strikes in Afghanistan were against the Taliban, targeted “killings” in Africa were against the Al Qaeda.
> 
> The 14-member Naresh Chandra Taskforce on National Security in its recommendations submitted to the Prime Minister in 2012 had suggested setting up three commands, including Special Operations, Cyber and Aerospace, to keep abreast with the fast changing nature of war fighting.
> 
> _The proposal to have the Special Operations Command gathered momentum after Army Chief General Bikram Singh, who is also Chairman Chiefs of Staff Committee, gave a detailed presentation about it to Prime Minister Narendra Modi last month, sources said here on Saturday._
> 
> _The three Services have already done the ground work and submitted the plan for raising the new Command to the Defence Ministry some months back but the general elections delayed the process as the then UPA Government did not want to take a major policy decision of this nature towards the fag end of its tenure_, officials said.
> 
> *The Prime Minister will meet the three Services chiefs later this month to review the SOC proposal before discussing it in the CCS, sources said*.* Modi has already decided to interact with the chiefs every month to gain first-hand knowledge about operational preparedness and problems faced by the Armed Forces including slow pace of modernisation.*
> 
> _Batches of commandos of Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) of the Navy and Garud of IAF will be integrated to deal with “out of area” contingencies like warding off any threat to remote islands in Andaman & Nicobar and other such regions in the Indian Ocean_.
> 
> *Phase-I of setting up the SOC will involve an amalgamation of manpower and assets of the three Services. Phase-II will see modifications in standard operating procedures (SOPs), once the Command gets operational, sources said. While the three Services have agreed to have such a command for effective response to any threat without losing time, they will continue to operate in their assigned domains, officials said.*
> 
> _Elaborating upon it, officials said the Special Forces of the Army will continue to carry out anti-insurgency and counter-terrorist operations in Jammu & Kashmir and the North-East besides specialised tasks._
> 
> At present, the Special Forces have eight battalions (one battalion has 1,000 men) and they have vast experience of operating in jungles of the North-East, Jammu & Kashmir and as part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) in Sri Lanka.
> 
> The one battalion strong MARCOS, raised in the early 1980s, is engaged in anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden. A small detachment is engaged in counter-terrorism in Kashmir and deployed at Wular Lake near Srinagar. Its commandos came to limelight for the first time when they took on terrorists for the first few hours after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks in 2008. MARCOS also took part in some operations during the IPKF deployment in Sri Lanka.
> 
> With a view to guarding its airfields and assets like state-of-the-art fighter jets and other sensitive equipment, the IAF raised Garud Commando Force five years back. While the role of these commandos is more or less static, the SOC may see them playing a bigger role, sources said.
> 
> *Once the Command gets going, the three Services propose to gradually withdraw their commandos and favour the new set-up to have its own trained manpower, sources said. However, the Government may not agree as raising a new force will require huge funds. The Government may opt for a small but effective and flexible SOC with commandos from Army, Navy and IAF serving short tenures before returning to their parent organisations, officials said*.
> 
> _As for the command structure of the SOC, a Lt-General will head it and equivalent rank officers from IAF and Navy will head the Space and Cyber Commands. Given the expertise in commando operations, the Army will head the SOC while Space Command will have an IAF officer as chief while a Navy officer will be at the helm of the Cyber Command, they said.
> 
> India set to give SOC(K) to terror_


Very, very nice!

Would like some clarity on exactly what the SOC will be charged with, its budget and composition. From the article it seems to suggest that at any one time only a small number of operators from the IA,IAF and IN will be under the SOC. My understanding was all SOFs of the IA,IN and IAF would be under the SOC at any one time. The article also makes out that the SOC will be a new force in itself but that makes no sense.

A good start, will be monitoring this very closely, as the command matures I am looking foreword to assets, experience and deployments they accumulate.


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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUD COMMANDO




SPG COMMANDO




PARATROOPER

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA COMMANDO


Don't see a SF tab- could be regular PARA.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA COMMANDO COAS BGS

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Don't see a SF tab- could be regular PARA.


yes, bro he is Capt Nimit Arya, 7 Para who lost his life on 11-7-2014 during an exercise.

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## special

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=546583802137868




An old clip of PARAs slithering down from IAF Mi-8 helicopters during a field exercise.


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## noksss

special said:


> yes, bro he is Capt Nimit Arya, 7 Para who lost his life on 11-7-2014 during an exercise.


How did that happen buddy ? any info u have on that


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## special

noksss said:


> How did that happen buddy ? any info u have on that



noting yet bro, the news was all over the facebook....no idea how it happen..


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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS CT TRAINING




NSG CLOSE COMBAT CQB TRAINING




NSG COMMANDOS SKY MARSHALLS TRAINING ON LIVE AIRCRAFT











NSG COMMANDOS SLITHERING FROM ALH DHRUV CHOPPER 

NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG COMMANDOS CT TRAINING
> View attachment 38877
> 
> NSG CLOSE COMBAT CQB TRAINING
> View attachment 38878
> 
> NSG COMMANDOS SKY MARSHALLS TRAINING ON LIVE AIRCRAFT
> View attachment 38879
> 
> View attachment 38880
> 
> 
> NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS


These look like they are from quite some time ago (before 2008 at least).

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS DURING IRON FIST 2013
@Abingdonboy yes they r 2-3 year old pics got them from vid

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS DURING IRON FIST EXERCISE 2013

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## Roybot

special said:


> yes, bro he is *Capt Nimit Arya, 7 Para* who lost his life on 11-7-2014 during an exercise.



That's sad, he was part of the last Indian-American bilateral exercise. RIP.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS DURING IRON FIST 2013

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## noksss

Roybot said:


> That's sad, he was part of the last Indian-American bilateral exercise. RIP.


 Buddy any info on how it happened and is death of a Special force solider during a training is something we need to be ashamed or is it common throughout the armies in the world . I am asking this bcoz i felt irritated and sad bcoz of this incident


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## Roybot

noksss said:


> Buddy any info on how it happened and is death of a Special force solider during a training is something we need to be ashamed or is it common throughout the armies in the world . I am asking this bcoz i felt irritated and sad bcoz of this incident



Not sure mate, read on twitter that he drowned during a river crossing exercise. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/487907039532679168


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## Unknowncommando

NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS

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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> Buddy any info on how it happened and is death of a Special force solider during a training is something we need to be ashamed or is it common throughout the armies in the world . I am asking this bcoz i felt irritated and sad bcoz of this incident


He wasn't Special Forces and training accidents occur in every arm of the military across the world, why would you have to be ashamed? That's nonsense.


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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> He wasn't Special Forces and *training accidents occur in every arm* of the *military across the world*, why would you have to be ashamed? That's nonsense.



Yes buddy that was my question. if its a common occurrence i am fine with that i was under the assumption that SF's cant loose men like this and thats what made me to ask the question.


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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> Yes buddy that was my question. if its a common occurrence i am fine with that i was under the assumption that SF's cant loose men like this and thats what made me to ask the question.


Mate, SOFs around the world are the most susceptible to fatalities in training/selection- during both training and selection human bodies are pushed to the extreme limits of human endurance and any number of things could cause a fatality or mishap it is, sadly, quite common for soldiers to die in SOFs selection/training.

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## special



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## Abingdonboy

Special Protection Group:

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS SHOWING THEIR SKILLS DURING RAISING DAY




NSG COMMANDOS SHOOTING PRACTICE WITH FRENCH EXPERTS











SPECIAL PROTECTION GROUP SPG

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## special

Major Sudhir Kumar of 9th SF


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> Major Sudhir Kumar of 9th SF


Looks like JKP


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> Major Sudhir Kumar of 9th SF


I agree with @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR looks much more likely to be JK Police doesn't look to be IA let alone SF.


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## Koovie

special said:


> Major Sudhir Kumar of 9th SF



Source?


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## nik22

NSG commandos must be really bore. IA Para get the chance of real action in Kashmir


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## special

Koovie said:


> Source?



i found this in Google, i will post the link if i got that again..






Army SF PARA Commandos slither down from an IAF Mi-8 helicopter


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## Omega007

Overall the Paras may be the most bad *** among Indian SFs,but when it comes to high altitude warfare,not many forces in the world can come close to the performance of Parvat Ghataks.........not even the 9 Para.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> These look like they are from quite some time ago (before 2008 at least).



During Bombay attacks:

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## Omega007

They were too poorly armed and equipped back then.Looking back at those pictures now,it seems the 26/11 Mumbai attacks,no matter how much painful and bloody might have been,was a jolt necessary to wake our government up from its usual slumber.

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## blain2

Omega007 said:


> Overall the Paras may be the most bad *** among Indian SFs,but when it comes to high altitude warfare,no forces in the world can come even close to the Parvat Ghataks.........not even the 9 Para.


I beg to differ on your point about "no forces in the world". You only need to look across the border and will find experts in HAW. We have been practicing the art of operating at High Altitude for as long as your side.

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## Omega007

blain2 said:


> I beg to differ on your point about "no forces in the world". You only need to look across the border and will find experts in HAW. We have been practicing the art of operating at High Altitude for as long as your side.



Sorry sir,I forgot about your SSG,will edit the post now.

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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> During Bombay attacks:
> 
> View attachment 39933
> View attachment 39934



Pathetic that it needed an event like 26/11 to wake up policy makers to bring the NSG from the pics above ....


to this

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Koovie said:


> Pathetic that it needed an event like 26/11 to wake up policy makers to bring the NSG from the pics above ....
> 
> 
> to this



Yes I've seen this pic..



Koovie said:


> Pathetic that it needed an event like 26/11 to wake up policy makers to bring the NSG from the pics above ....
> 
> 
> to this



The helmets,webbings,pads n optics look nice .. Although gotta hate those weird russkie helmets.. Look bulky as hell..

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## Omega007

By the way @blain2 sir,is there any SSG formation specifically earmarked for HAW??I mean the Para SF personnel are themselves expert climbers but they also train for other environments.Where as the Parvat Ghataks are exclusively trained in HAW,that's why their expertise in mountain warfare is somewhat better than the Paras.


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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes I've seen this pic..
> 
> 
> 
> The helmets,webbings,pads n optics look nice .. Although gotta hate those weird russkie helmets.. Look bulky as hell..



Yeah,the helmets are somewhat bulky indeed,may be these offer better ear protection or something.

But more than the helmets,I don't like those sub machine-guns.I'm not too big a fan of SMGs.......especially the ones chambered for 9X19mm Parabellum rounds.

Ideally they should've gone for a carbine or a bullpup assault rifle like the TAR 21 or the Styer AUG.

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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The helmets,webbings,pads n optics look nice .. Although gotta hate those weird russkie helmets.. Look bulky as hell..


Well, they surely had their reasons for this choice, although I think that it will be difficult to use other equipment like masks with them.





Members of the NSG bomb squad do have other less bulkier helmets though







Omega007 said:


> Yeah,the helmets are somewhat bulky indeed,may be these offer better ear protection or something.
> 
> But more than the helmets,I don't like those sub machine-guns.I'm not too big a fan of SMGs.......especially the ones chambered for 9X19mm Parabellum rounds.
> 
> Ideally they should've gone for a carbine or a bullpup assault rifle like the TAR 21 or the Styer AUG.



They chose 9mm rounds because they are less likely to go through a target and harm other people (hostages) behind it

*The NSG is a CT unit! Saving innocent lives has highest priority.
*
But they obviously got AR`s as well.

Sigs and M 16s for instance:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Omega007 said:


> Yeah,the helmets are somewhat bulky indeed,may be these offer better ear protection or something.
> 
> But more than the helmets,I don't like those sub machine-guns.I'm not too big a fan of SMGs.......especially the ones chambered for 9X19mm Parabellum rounds.
> 
> Ideally they should've gone for a carbine or a bullpup assault rifle like the TAR 21 or the Styer AUG.



Mp-5 is an ideal weapon for CQB.. It's compact,lighter and accurate ... As for ear protection common man.. Check my avatar these are GIDS produced helmets .. You can see they do cover the ears etc..




Regular army troops during ex.



Koovie said:


> Well, they surely had their reasons for this choice, although I think that it will be difficult to use other equipment like masks with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members of the NSG bomb squad do have other less bulkier helmets though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They chose 9mm rounds because they are less likely to go through a target and harm other people (hostages) behind it
> 
> *The NSG is a CT unit! Saving innocent lives has highest priority.
> *
> But they obviously got AR`s as well.
> 
> Sigs and M 16s for instance:


The era of m-16 has passed..


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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Mp-5 is an ideal weapon for CQB.. It's compact,lighter and accurate ... As for ear protection common man.. Check my avatar these are GIDS produced helmets .. You can see they do cover the ears etc..
> View attachment 39966
> 
> Regular army troops during ex.
> 
> 
> The era of m-16 has passed..


True, but the M 16 has only seen very limited service with the NSG. Their main AR is the Sig 550 series


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Koovie said:


> True, but the M 16 has only seen very limited service with the NSG. Their main AR is the Sig 550 series



Should have bought another AR.. I have an M-16 n m-4... Our army has had them since the late 60s...Although the cauliflower effect n the sound is nice .. I'd still chose an AK or a M-4 over it ... And since NSG is more of a urban anti terrorist force .. I personally feel it was a bad purchase on their part.. Its a battle rifle homie .. Would have suited your army more than NSG.. My 2 RS..

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## Koovie

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Should have bought another AR.. I have an M-16 n m-4... Our army has had them since the late 60s...Although the cauliflower effect n the sound is nice .. I'd still chose an AK or a M-4 over it ...* And since NSG is more of a urban anti terrorist force* .. I personally feel it was a bad purchase on their part.. *Its a battle rifle homie .. Would have suited your army more than NSG..* My 2 RS..



Makes sense, thats why there is only a very limited number of M 16s in the NSG`s arsenal. 

BTW: This NSG commando here interestingly used a 7.62 battle rifle instead of his Sig during the Mumbai attacks

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Koovie said:


> Makes sense, thats why there is only a very limited number of M 16s in the NSG`s arsenal.
> 
> BTW: This NSG commando here interestingly used a 7.62 battle rifle instead of his Sig during the Mumbai attacks


Fnfal.. Aka SLR.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> During Bombay attacks:


And what year were the Mumbai attacks? 2008- precisely why I said pre-2008.



Omega007 said:


> They were too poorly armed and equipped back then.Looking back at those pictures now,it seems the 26/11 Mumbai attacks,no matter how much painful and bloody might have been,was a jolt necessary to wake our government up from its usual slumber.



Agreed, Indian leadership (political class) has shown it is reactionary and not proactive time and time again- 26/11 woke them up thankfully but it is said it took that event to do so. 

Now all states/cities have well equipped and trained special response units beside the NSG being given a makeover. 




Omega007 said:


> Overall the Paras may be the most bad *** among Indian SFs,but when it comes to high altitude warfare,not many forces in the world can come close to the performance of Parvat Ghataks.........not even the 9 Para.



Nonsense, utter nonsense. Para (SF) are Special Forces, Ghataks are well trained and specially equipped infantry. SF are the cream of the crop, no way would Ghataks be superior by any measure- that makes no sense. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The era of m-16 has passed..


The M-16s are not new purchases, they are from the 90s and the only time I've seen them in NSG hands in on this table and as part of a display of arms, beyond that it's not used at all. 

For sniper and within the assault teams the NSG uses the SIG 550/2/3 series:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Overall the Paras may be the most bad *** among Indian SFs,but when it comes to high altitude warfare,not many forces in the world can come close to the performance of Parvat Ghataks.........not even the 9 Para.


9 Para SF are the best in High Altitude warfare.Officers and jawans from 9 Para are instructors in HAWS.


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SPECIAL FORCE COMMANDOS 






















INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## The A-5

@Omega007 - Not sure if 5.56/7.62mm ARs would be advisable will all civilians/hostages running around.

EDIT : Oh sorry, others members already responded to it...

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## Omega007

Abingdonboy said:


> Nonsense, utter nonsense. Para (SF) are Special Forces, Ghataks are well trained and specially equipped infantry. SF are the cream of the crop, no way would Ghataks be superior by any measure- that makes no sense.



Your opinion is duly noted and ignored.I know what I'm saying and these are not particularly my words.

And anyway,I didn't say "Ghataks",you would be well advised to take a look at the little details.I said Parvat Ghataks,those trained in the High Altitude Commando Training School and HAWS.

I did say,overall Paras are best our country has to offer,but as they are SFs,quite naturally they have to train to operate in different terrains and environments as well as in CQB situations.But the Parvat Ghataks are specifically trained for HAW,that's what they do over and over and over again through out their tenures,they are quite naturally better acclimatised to those altitudes.So it shouldn't come as a surprise if they are better for that particular role simply due to the fact that the Parvat Ghataks have much more exposure to that particular operating environment.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Your opinion is duly noted and ignored.I know what I'm saying and these are not particularly my words.
> 
> And anyway,I didn't say "Ghataks",you would be well advised to take a look at the little details.I said Parvat Ghataks,those trained in the High Altitude Commando Training School and HAWS.
> 
> I did say,overall Paras are best our country has to offer,but as they are SFs,quite naturally they have to train to operate in different terrains and environments as well as in CQB situations.But the Parvat Ghataks are specifically trained for HAW,that's what they do over and over and over again through out their tenures,they are quite naturally better acclimatised to those altitudes.So it shouldn't come as a surprise if they are better for that particular role simply due to the fact that the Parvat Ghataks have much more exposure to that particular operating environment.



The bulk of the SpecOps in the valley are done by Para and particularly the 9th Battalion.Other times they are working with the Ghataks and it is the Ghataks who are under Para and not the other way around.

I know where this is coming from as majority of the Infantry Officers rate Ghataks very close to Para SF..but that is not true.


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## Immanuel

Omega007 said:


> I did say,overall Paras are best our country has to offer quote]


 
Well that is incorrect. All Indian SF units are more or else equally good, some are better than the others in some areas. Marcos/ Garuds, Paras & SFF undergo all types of training including mountain warfare/ Desert warfare/jungle warfare/ Unconventional warfare/ COIN warfare/ CT warfare. On average training goes from between 3.5-5 years after basic training and they undergo many modules of courses, this makes them literally extremly well trained jack of all trades but not surely the best in every single aspect. For example all SF units including Garuds/ SFF are trained extensively in diving but Marcos is the absolute force that specializes in marine warfare.

Indian SF units are easily the deadliest all terrian SF units the world and easily deployable in all kinds of extreme conditions. However, Para-9 SF are not necessarily the best mountain warriors. All SF battallions are all weather trained. The best mountain warriors in the country come from Regular infantry regiments i.e Ladadkh scouts/ Gurkha Rifles etc. Ghatak units in these highly decorated regiments are quite literally the best mountain warriors on the planet. This doesn't make 9 Para-SF or a Marcos squad any less deadly. However, the whole idea of SF force is be deployable any place needed and hit out at very well defended targets that deliver tactical and strategic blows to the enemy.

Actually the Infantry is full of specialists, a regular Ladakh Scout, Gurkha Rifle or Kumaon regiment jawan would give most SF units in the world a run for their money


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Immanuel said:


> Well that is incorrect. All Indian SF units are more or else equally good, some are better than the others in some areas. Marcos/ Garuds, Paras & SFF undergo all types of training including mountain warfare/ Desert warfare/jungle warfare/ Unconventional warfare/ COIN warfare/ CT warfare. On average training goes from between 3.5-5 years after basic training and they undergo many modules of courses, this makes them literally extremly well trained jack of all trades but not surely the best in every single aspect. For example all SF units including Garuds/ SFF are trained extensively in diving but Marcos is the absolute force that specializes in marine warfare.
> 
> Indian SF units are easily the deadliest all terrian SF units the world and easily deployable in all kinds of extreme conditions. However, Para-9 SF are not necessarily the best mountain warriors. All SF battallions are all weather trained. The best mountain warriors in the country come from Regular infantry regiments i.e Ladadkh scouts/ Gurkha Rifles etc. Ghatak units in these highly decorated regiments are quite literally the best mountain warriors on the planet. This doesn't make 9 Para-SF or a Marcos squad any less deadly. However, the whole idea of SF force is be deployable any place needed and hit out at very well defended targets that deliver tactical and strategic blows to the enemy.
> 
> Actually the Infantry is full of specialists, a regular Ladakh Scout, Gurkha Rifle or Kumaon regiment jawan would give most SF units in the world a run for their money




Not true.

Marcos have no experience in HAW.Garud have no experience in amphibious operations.

Check out google or any other database and you will see that no other unit comes closer to 9th Battalion in SpecOps in Kashmir valley.They are the experts.

I do not understand this theory that the Desert Scorpions will be better than 9th battalion in Moutain warfare.

Ofcourse operators from all units have to serve in Kashmir but there are some units with a unmatchable history in operations in the valley.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

And as a matter of fact Marcos are a regular student of CIJWS and they are nowhere near the best.The best timing in drills and shooting ranges, best tactis displayed and better efficency records are all held by PARA, PARA SF and Gorkhas.


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## Omega007

@Immanuel ,I beg to differ.The MARCOS and the Garud will come nowhere near the Para SF or the Parvat Ghataks when it comes to Jungle warfare or HAW.The SFF is a whole different story though since their ranks are filled with Para SF operators!!
And wrt MARCOS being equal to the Paras,please give it a rest.Like we haven't already seen their "performance" during the 26/11!!It was the Para SF guys who saved the day.


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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The bulk of the SpecOps in the valley are done by Para and particularly the 9th Battalion.Other times they are working with the Ghataks and it is the Ghataks who are under Para and not the other way around.
> 
> I know where this is coming from as majority of the Infantry Officers rate Ghataks very close to Para SF..but that is not true.



There is difference between mountain warfare and HAW.Of course in the forested Kashmir valleys situated in the comparatively lower altitudes,the Para SF personnel are invincible.......there's simply no denying in that.And I wasn't exactly speaking about this matter.

What I was talking about,is operations in extreme high altitudes (above 18-19000 feet ASL).At those altitudes,the Parvat Ghataks would definitely gain the upper hand over the Paras or anyone else for that matter.These units are raised,trained and maintained specifically and solely for operations in extremely high altitudes.But the Para SF personnel have to train in a plethora of different terrain and environments ranging from high altitude mountains to densely vegitated valleys to temperate forests to marsh lands.Then there is various room intervention and CQB drills which comes with their SF tag.So quite naturally the Parvat Ghataks would take the lead when it comes to operations in the high peaks.

Again,I'm not speaking about operations in the forested Kashmir Valleys of the comparatively lower altitudes.

And by the way,you got it right.I came to know this things from a retired Indian Army Lt Colonel,he had been a student in the High Altitude Commando School,situated in Tawang.And yeah,his views regarding the Ghatak troopers was quite favourable.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> There is difference between mountain warfare and HAW.Of course in the forested Kashmir valleys situated in the comparatively lower altitudes,the Para SF personnel are invincible.......there's simply no denying in that.And I wasn't exactly speaking about this matter.
> 
> What I was talking about,is operations in extreme high altitudes (above 18-19000 feet ASL).At those altitudes,the Parvat Ghataks would definitely gain the upper hand over the Paras or anyone else for that matter.These units are raised,trained and maintained specifically and solely for operations in extremely high altitudes.But the Para SF personnel have to train in a plethora of different terrain and environments ranging from high altitude mountains to densely vegitated valleys to temperate forests to marsh lands.Then there is various room intervention and CQB drills which comes with their SF tag.So quite naturally the Parvat Ghataks would take the lead when it comes to operations in the high peaks.
> 
> Again,I'm not speaking about operations in the forested Kashmir Valleys of the comparatively lower altitudes.
> 
> And by the way,you got it right.I came to know this things from a retired Indian Army Lt Colonel,he had been a student in the High Altitude Commando School,situated in Tawang.And yeah,his views regarding the Ghatak troopers was quite favourable.



I know that.What I am saying is that these Parbat Ghataks are trained by a few Para SF people...Para SF has a wide varitey of well trained operators with experince of being Instructors of Parbhat Ghataks to Phantom Commandos.

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I know that.What I am saying is that these Parbat Ghataks are trained by a few Para SF people...Para SF has a wide varitey of well trained operators with experince of being Instructors of Parbhat Ghataks to Phantom Commandos.



I see.Well,at the end of the day,both are on the same team and it's great to have two of the most deadly mountain warfare units in the Indian Army.

Who are Phantom Commandos by the way,never heard of them.Could you spare some info??


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## Koovie

Omega007 said:


> I see.Well,at the end of the day,both are on the same team and it's great to have two of the most deadly mountain warfare units in the Indian Army.
> 
> *Who are Phantom Commandos by the way,never heard of them.Could you spare some info??*



They are a highly secretive sub unit of the NSG. 

Their existence has been revealed by a NSG commander in an interview. The video is on this thread (It was posted earlier this month)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> I see.Well,at the end of the day,both are on the same team and it's great to have two of the most deadly mountain warfare units in the Indian Army.
> 
> Who are Phantom Commandos by the way,never heard of them.Could you spare some info??



Haha...I heard the name first time in a documentary. NSG cream of the crop basically are called Phantoms.

My assumption is that they cant provide top notch training to everyone so they have hand picked the elite and sent them to a secret base in the foot hills of Himalayas where they train with the SFF or Para SF etc.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not true.
> 
> Marcos have no experience in HAW.Garud have no experience in amphibious operations.
> 
> Check out google or any other database and you will see that no other unit comes closer to 9th Battalion in SpecOps in Kashmir valley.They are the experts.
> 
> I do not understand this theory that the Desert Scorpions will be better than 9th battalion in Moutain warfare.
> 
> Ofcourse operators from all units have to serve in Kashmir but there are some units with a unmatchable history in operations in the valley.





Omega007 said:


> @Immanuel ,I beg to differ.The MARCOS and the Garud will come nowhere near the Para SF or the Parvat Ghataks when it comes to Jungle warfare or HAW.The SFF is a whole different story though since their ranks are filled with Para SF operators!!
> And wrt MARCOS being equal to the Paras,please give it a rest.Like we haven't already seen their "performance" during the 26/11!!It was the Para SF guys who saved the day.





Omega007 said:


> @Immanuel ,I beg to differ.The MARCOS and the Garud will come nowhere near the Para SF or the Parvat Ghataks when it comes to Jungle warfare or HAW.The SFF is a whole different story though since their ranks are filled with Para SF operators!!
> And wrt MARCOS being equal to the Paras,please give it a rest.Like we haven't already seen their "performance" during the 26/11!!It was the Para SF guys who saved the day.





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I know that.What I am saying is that these Parbat Ghataks are trained by a few Para SF people...Para SF has a wide varitey of well trained operators with experince of being Instructors of Parbhat Ghataks to Phantom Commandos.





Omega007 said:


> There is difference between mountain warfare and HAW.Of course in the forested Kashmir valleys situated in the comparatively lower altitudes,the Para SF personnel are invincible.......there's simply no denying in that.And I wasn't exactly speaking about this matter.
> 
> What I was talking about,is operations in extreme high altitudes (above 18-19000 feet ASL).At those altitudes,the Parvat Ghataks would definitely gain the upper hand over the Paras or anyone else for that matter.These units are raised,trained and maintained specifically and solely for operations in extremely high altitudes.But the Para SF personnel have to train in a plethora of different terrain and environments ranging from high altitude mountains to densely vegitated valleys to temperate forests to marsh lands.Then there is various room intervention and CQB drills which comes with their SF tag.So quite naturally the Parvat Ghataks would take the lead when it comes to operations in the high peaks.
> 
> Again,I'm not speaking about operations in the forested Kashmir Valleys of the comparatively lower altitudes.
> 
> And by the way,you got it right.I came to know this things from a retired Indian Army Lt Colonel,he had been a student in the High Altitude Commando School,situated in Tawang.And yeah,his views regarding the Ghatak troopers was quite favourable.



guys, to judge which unit is the best can only be done by NSA, PMO and DM. nobody in here don't have any access to the marcos and army SF unit. all we are discussing here is on the basis of what we learnt form media or very rarely from ret. army/navy officers and jawans. i would like to say that no jawans will ever say that his unit is inferior to the other. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army and navy SF are in mountain warfare, it is not wise to say that the army special forces are better that Gurkha in mountain warfare. gurkhas are born in those mountains so naturally they have an edge over any others. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army/navy units are, but the battle winning factor is the tactics and skill of the soldiers to plan and execute the operations. 
if you look at the combat history of the special forces(marcos and para commandos) marcos had very few casualties during the operations as compared to para commandos. marcos have a record of no casualty(loss of life) during its operations in sri lanka and somalia. marcos was even send to rescue the captured para commandos in sri lanka( i don't know why as the para commandos have better intelligence network in srilanka than the marcos). marcos is the only unit in india who had done operations with US special forces(navy SEALS) in somalia, without a single casualty. in kashmir also the marcos had a low casualty rate as compared to para commandos( someone in here is not gonna agree with me but it is the fact, and the marcos do operations with para commandos and RR. and the operation of marcos are not limited to "in and around" any water bodies). the navy always kept operations very secret as compared to army and very few or no media reports on marcos before 26/11. para commandos have way better experience and intelligence network in kashmir than marcos, altho both the units only operates under actionable intel. and of course paras have better access to the locals than marcos. 
someone here said that the SFF is full of para commandos. it is not true, the SFF-SG consist of a team of marcos also.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Haha...I heard the name first time in a documentary. NSG cream of the crop basically are called Phantoms.
> 
> My assumption is that they cant provide top notch training to everyone so they have hand picked the elite and sent them to a secret base in the foot hills of Himalayas where they train with the SFF or Para SF etc.


may be you are right, but there is a chance that the NSG wants a Tier-1 unit within NSG. as the terror tratics are changing and we need a force at an international standard. as also the NSG is now going to send its commandos to FBI-HRT for advanced training, may be the phantom commandos selected to be trained and equipped like the us/nato counter terror force.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> guys, to judge which unit is the best can only be done by NSA, PMO and DM. nobody in here don't have any access to the marcos and army SF unit. all we are discussing here is on the basis of what we learnt form media or very rarely from ret. army/navy officers and jawans. i would like to say that no jawans will ever say that his unit is inferior to the other. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army and navy SF are in mountain warfare, it is not wise to say that the army special forces are better that Gurkha in mountain warfare. gurkhas are born in those mountains so naturally they have an edge over any others. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army/navy units are, but the battle winning factor is the tactics and skill of the soldiers to plan and execute the operations.
> if you look at the combat history of the special forces(marcos and para commandos) marcos had very few casualties during the operations as compared to para commandos. marcos have a record of no casualty(loss of life) during its operations in sri lanka and somalia. marcos was even send to rescue the captured para commandos in sri lanka( i don't know why as the para commandos have better intelligence network in srilanka than the marcos). marcos is the only unit in india who had done operations with US special forces(navy SEALS) in somalia, without a single casualty. in kashmir also the marcos had a low casualty rate as compared to para commandos( someone in here is not gonna agree with me but it is the fact, and the marcos do operations with para commandos and RR. and the operation of marcos are not limited to "in and around" any water bodies). the navy always kept operations very secret as compared to army and very few or no media reports on marcos before 26/11. para commandos have way better experience and intelligence network in kashmir than marcos, altho both the units only operates under actionable intel. and of course paras have better access to the locals than marcos.
> someone here said that the SFF is full of para commandos. it is not true, the SFF-SG consist of a team of marcos also.



Which Para Commando was rescued by Marcos..provide me the link?

Marcos work in and around Wular lake.People like you keep day dreaming stuff about Marcos and Garuds but the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day these great Marcos score nowhere near the top in CIJWS...Please provide me the link of Marcos being deployed in Kupwara or Doda?

Marcos kept the operation secret as compared to Army...Oh please give me a break.The Marcos were so irresponsible that they gave the interview when NSG was getting its hands dirty.

Have u even bothered to look at their room clearence drill video in 26/11...its just too pathetic.

Paras have done 10000 times more operations than Marcos.

Dont fucking give any importance to what I say...do one thing go to google and search how many navy people and how many paras have won the bravery award.You will get an idea as to who is more active.

And sorry to bust the Times of India Indian Seal bubble but even the Gurkha Ghataks can give the Garuds and Marcos a run for their money in any fcking terrain except around water bodies.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Which Para Commando was rescued by Marcos..provide me the link?
> 
> Marcos work in and around Wular lake.People like you keep day dreaming stuff about Marcos and Garuds but the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day these great Marcos score nowhere near the top in CIJWS...Please provide me the link of Marcos being deployed in Kupwara or Doda?
> 
> Marcos kept the operation secret as compared to Army...Oh please give me a break.The Marcos were so irresponsible that they gave the interview when NSG was getting its hands dirty.
> 
> Have u even bothered to look at their room clearence drill video in 26/11...its just too pathetic.
> 
> Paras have done 10000 times more operations than Marcos.
> 
> Dont fucking give any importance to what I say...do one thing go to google and search how many navy people and how many paras have won the bravery award.You will get an idea as to who is more active.
> 
> And sorry to bust the Times of India Indian Seal bubble but even the Gurkha Ghataks can give the Garuds and Marcos a run for their money in any fcking terrain except around water bodies.


I understand where you are coming from bro but I wish you would stop talking down the MARCOs- the selection process and training they go through is as intense as the PARA (SF) if not more so (and we both know how intense PARA (SF) selection and training is). To say an infantry unit (Ghataks) are on par with this SF is stretching the truth and quite far fetched.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I understand where you are coming from bro but I wish you would stop talking down the MARCOs- the selection process and training they go through is as intense as the PARA (SF) if not more so (and we both know how intense PARA (SF) selection and training is). To say an infantry unit (Ghataks) are on par with this SF is stretching the truth and quite far fetched.



Experience is what matters at the end of the day.Experience makes you develop tactis..Tactis makes you more skilled and Skill lets you kill..to sum it up in short.

So my dear Abingdon...where is the experience and the kill?


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## Immanuel

Omega007 said:


> @Immanuel ,I beg to differ.The MARCOS and the Garud will come nowhere near the Para SF or the Parvat Ghataks when it comes to Jungle warfare or HAW.The SFF is a whole different story though since their ranks are filled with Para SF operators!!
> And wrt MARCOS being equal to the Paras,please give it a rest.Like we haven't already seen their "performance" during the 26/11!!It was the Para SF guys who saved the day.


 

Dude I think you underestimate the other. Marcos entered the OP in Mumbai and nailed everybody they could find without any loss of life, they were the first ones to mop up the OP they were assigned to while NSG was still busy with the other areas. The mission was 100/100 for them. Secondly, Marcos operators are deployed near many lakes and rivers in the Valley. They are certainly trained in HAWS, doesn't mean they are the best for that role but they certainly are trained there. Marcos are also trained at CIJWS and desert warfare school in rajasthan. SFF is a different breed and doesn't always have Para SF members rather members that are trained to be in SFF since the start, offcourse there are a few who come from different units but SFF is a Special Mission dedicated to covert missions working closely with RAW. SFF/ Garuds are also trained in amphibious ops, they are not trained to expert level but they can certainly handle dives and combat operations in marine environments.

Para SF personnel being invincible is good thing but it would be a sad day for any one to underestimate Garuds or Marcos. Their training these days is more or less equalized with different services focusing on their prime areas but also since the start inculcating harsh training in the most diverse conditions. the kit they deploy is also steadily getting better. Its also really silly to be comparing Parvat Ghataks to a Marine Co, they are meant for different roles, the same parvat ghatak would have a tough time conducting a long range deep scuba dive infil op deployed from a sub, doesn't mean they can't but they are not trained primarily for that. All these units have roughly the same length of training and are trained in various prestigous schools in the country.

A Delta operator would have a tough time matching a ST6 operator in the water.

All Indian SF units old and new are pretty good and among the most well trained, it is in the end how they are deployed that makes the difference. The IA at the moment has the worst doctrine of deployment of SF units among the 3 services which actually doesn't surely use the skill to good effect. Garuds/ Marcos have a better role/ deployement doctrine which will allow IN/IAF to use them against an enemy where it really hurts.

One can say indeed the 9 Para-SF are great warriors for their roles but I am sure a Gurkha or a Ladakh scout is even a better warrior of the mountains, there is one thing being trained to fight in the mountains and there is another being born there and trained to rule there since birth.

Now from what we also know between SFF/ Marcos/ Para SF/ NSG and Garuds, there seem to be additonal special teams within each force i.e the ultra elite in case of the NSG revealed recently is the so called Phantom Unit i.e 1 percenters who are sent out for highly classified additional training.

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## Immanuel

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Paras have done 10000 times more operations than Marcos.
> 
> Dont fucking give any importance to what I say...do one thing go to google and search how many navy people and how many paras have won the bravery award.You will get an idea as to who is more active.
> 
> And sorry to bust the Times of India Indian Seal bubble but even the Gurkha Ghataks can give the Garuds and Marcos a run for their money in any fcking terrain except around water bodies.


 
'I think you should better learn to show some fucking respect instead of running your filthy fucking mouth'

See its easy to use filthy language, you laugh at 2 dimensional video of a room clearance where, it may look funny to you or pathetic for that matter, however the fact is they managed to kill whoever they found with no loss of life (just some injuries inevitable when facing fire and grenade barrage) either to their own teams of additonal innocents/hostages that my dear biased friend is a 100/100 OP. They were given orders and they did what they were ordered to do.

Sorry but you judge a force on how they supposedly performed at CIJWS, pardon me but who the **** are you to comment while its obvious that you're quite simply writing crap out out of a chair. Let's see how the Para SF performs in the water, I doubt a Gurkha can swim a mile out due to his thick mountain blood.

Again you want to compare forces, compare similar ones from other countries. comparing our own forces has no added value, it is only a matter of knowing which force is best for the job. You want a EW node or a Air defence radar or SAM batteries taken out behind enemy lines send in the Garuds, you want to destroy enemy missile launchers and ammo dumps send in the Paras, if you want to sabotage enemy ships/subs send in the Marcos, you want to covertly kill enemy leadership or recon enemy strategic sights send in the SFF.

Going forth being part of SOC, all these forces will have to learn to integrate and do it really well you see. If for example the Garuds don't disable an air defence node, the paras for instance can't even get there without being shot out of the sky. Military might comes from everybody doing their job to the best extent without compromise and working together. All this chatter about which service is best within our own country is BS.

Also, I am confident on how the various SF units are honing and evolving their tactics, skills and training.

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## sathya

Silly civilian doubt...

Why Marcos were to 26/11 Mumbai? Not para SF?
Any specific reason? May be because they came through Coast?


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## Abingdonboy

sathya said:


> Silly civilian doubt...
> 
> Why Marcos were to 26/11 Mumbai? Not para SF?
> Any specific reason? May be because they came through Coast?


Theere is a MARCOs detachment at the IN's base in Mumbai so MARCOs were the closets SF to Mumbai when it happened. PARA (SF) aren't usually deployed in cities (Banaglore being such an exception).

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## NEPALESE GURKHA

Chinese anti terrorism force


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## Indischer

sathya said:


> Silly civilian doubt...
> 
> Why Marcos were to 26/11 Mumbai? Not para SF?
> Any specific reason? May be because they came through Coast?



Nope. they just happened to be the ones closest to the area of impact. Para SF's regimental centre is in Bangalore while the closest detachment to Mumbai would be the one in Belgaum. The Marcos regimental centre is meanwhile in Mumbai, and needless to say, help was sought from them rather than Para SF to engage the terrorists till NSG made it's way from Manesar.

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## sathya

NEPALESE GURKHA said:


> Chinese anti terrorism force
> View attachment 40365


Why are posting it here mate? Try in Chinese special forces


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## NEPALESE GURKHA

sathya said:


> Why are posting it here mate? Try in Chinese special forces


China has developed its capability beyond force and its arms now they have SUV designed for special force so in-spite to debate on 26/11 rather move to new debate of achieving next requirement for Special force


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## Abingdonboy

NEPALESE GURKHA said:


> China has developed its capability beyond force and its arms now they have SUV designed for special force so in-spite to debate on 26/11 rather move to new debate of achieving next requirement for Special force


I don't understand what you are trying to say vis a vis China, every nation has CT forces, India is no exception:










































They even have their own specialised assault vehicles as you have made a point of:

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## NEPALESE GURKHA

Most 


Abingdonboy said:


> I don't understand what you are trying to say vis a vis China, every nation has CT forces, India is no exception:
> 
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> They even have their own specialised assault vehicles as you have made a point of:


Most of these equipment used by Indian special forces are imported 1 what i mean 2 say is china has build capability with its own indigenous weapon.


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## Abingdonboy

NEPALESE GURKHA said:


> Most
> Most of these equipment used by Indian special forces are imported 1 what i mean 2 say is china has build capability with its own indigenous weapon.


And most of it will be rip offs of foreign gear- even that SUV you pointed out is clearly a HUMVEE rip-off. It doesn't matter- the jobs of these forces is to defend their nations and kill terrorists, if the equipment is made in China, India or Timbuktu do you think that makes a blind bit of difference?

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## Indischer

Abingdonboy said:


> And most of it will be rip offs of foreign gear- even that SUV you pointed out is clearly a HUMVEE rip-off. It doesn't matter- the jobs of these forces is to defend their nations and kill terrorists, *if the equipment is made in China, India or Timbuktu do you think that makes a blind bit of difference*?



It does. Tests have proven that Swadeshi bullets are faster, travel farther and have greater terminal ballistic impact than Videshi bullets of the same caliber. 

On a serious note, indigenization is good for the exchequer and frees the Nation from potential outside interference over supplies and servicing during times of war. Of course, the soldier need not care for all this though.

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## NEPALESE GURKHA

Abingdonboy said:


> And most of it will be rip offs of foreign gear- even that SUV you pointed out is clearly a HUMVEE rip-off. It doesn't matter- the jobs of these forces is to defend their nations and kill terrorists, if the equipment is made in China, India or Timbuktu do you think that makes a blind bit of difference?


From capability to strengthen your special forces yes. Best example is OSAMA hunt where US Navy Seal used unique device equipment's first to fool Pakistan radar then to reduce noise by chopper and finally make a comeback do you think without having such superb equipment US could have killed Osama and do you think Daud in side pakistan ever?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Immanuel said:


> 'I think you should better learn to show some fucking respect instead of running your filthy fucking mouth'
> 
> See its easy to use filthy language, you laugh at 2 dimensional video of a room clearance where, it may look funny to you or pathetic for that matter, however the fact is they managed to kill whoever they found with no loss of life (just some injuries inevitable when facing fire and grenade barrage) either to their own teams of additonal innocents/hostages that my dear biased friend is a 100/100 OP. They were given orders and they did what they were ordered to do.
> 
> Sorry but you judge a force on how they supposedly performed at CIJWS, pardon me but who the **** are you to comment while its obvious that you're quite simply writing crap out out of a chair. Let's see how the Para SF performs in the water, I doubt a Gurkha can swim a mile out due to his thick mountain blood.
> 
> Again you want to compare forces, compare similar ones from other countries. comparing our own forces has no added value, it is only a matter of knowing which force is best for the job. You want a EW node or a Air defence radar or SAM batteries taken out behind enemy lines send in the Garuds, you want to destroy enemy missile launchers and ammo dumps send in the Paras, if you want to sabotage enemy ships/subs send in the Marcos, you want to covertly kill enemy leadership or recon enemy strategic sights send in the SFF.
> 
> Going forth being part of SOC, all these forces will have to learn to integrate and do it really well you see. If for example the Garuds don't disable an air defence node, the paras for instance can't even get there without being shot out of the sky. Military might comes from everybody doing their job to the best extent without compromise and working together. All this chatter about which service is best within our own country is BS.
> 
> Also, I am confident on how the various SF units are honing and evolving their tactics, skills and training.




Listen you dickhead ..why dont you post the link about your mental masturbation of Marcos rescuing a Para..

Secondly, where the **** is the link of Marcos doing operations in Doda and Kupwara or Lolab or Handwara...assholes like you dont even know where Marcos are deployed and have all kind of theories after having weed.

where is the link of Marcos and Garud being a part of SFF?

People like you have no fucking link with soldiers and are here to prove their theories after mental masturbation. ..

Provide me the fucking link of medals won by Marcos and Paras in the last 15 years and I will see who is more active....

if you cant reply with what I asked for then stfu..and get lost...I am least interested in ur mental masturbation..please others like you who have no touch with reality.

99.9999999% of operations are done by Army not by any other muthafcking unit..get that in ur head.



sathya said:


> Silly civilian doubt...
> 
> Why Marcos were to 26/11 Mumbai? Not para SF?
> Any specific reason? May be because they came through Coast?



Bcoz Para SF was not deployed in Mumbai.

The first call of help went to GOC Army and not a Naval base.GOC recommended Marcos since Para were unavailable.

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## StormShadow

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Listen you dickhead ..why dont you post the link about your mental masturbation of Marcos rescuing a Para..
> 
> Secondly, where the **** is the link of Marcos doing operations in Doda and Kupwara or Lolab or Handwara...assholes like you dont even know where Marcos are deployed and have all kind of theories after having weed.
> 
> where is the link of Marcos and Garud being a part of SFF?
> 
> People like you have no fucking link with soldiers and are here to prove their theories after mental masturbation. ..
> 
> Provide me the fucking link of medals won by Marcos and Paras in the last 15 years and I will see who is more active....
> 
> if you cant reply with what I asked for then stfu..and get lost...I am least interested in ur mental masturbation..please others like you who have no touch with reality.
> 
> 99.9999999% of operations are done by Army not by any other muthafcking unit..get that in ur head.


Hey...go easy! MARCOS or PARAs, they all are serving one nation under different units! They themselves wont fight like this. Please relax....This is a request.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Immanuel said:


> Dude I think you underestimate the other. Marcos entered the OP in Mumbai and nailed everybody they could find without any loss of life, they were the first ones to mop up the OP they were assigned to while NSG was still busy with the other areas. The mission was 100/100 for them. Secondly, Marcos operators are deployed near many lakes and rivers in the Valley. They are certainly trained in HAWS, doesn't mean they are the best for that role but they certainly are trained there. Marcos are also trained at CIJWS and desert warfare school in rajasthan. SFF is a different breed and doesn't always have Para SF members rather members that are trained to be in SFF since the start, offcourse there are a few who come from different units but SFF is a Special Mission dedicated to covert missions working closely with RAW. SFF/ Garuds are also trained in amphibious ops, they are not trained to expert level but they can certainly handle dives and combat operations in marine environments.
> 
> Para SF personnel being invincible is good thing but it would be a sad day for any one to underestimate Garuds or Marcos. Their training these days is more or less equalized with different services focusing on their prime areas but also since the start inculcating harsh training in the most diverse conditions. the kit they deploy is also steadily getting better. Its also really silly to be comparing Parvat Ghataks to a Marine Co, they are meant for different roles, the same parvat ghatak would have a tough time conducting a long range deep scuba dive infil op deployed from a sub, doesn't mean they can't but they are not trained primarily for that. All these units have roughly the same length of training and are trained in various prestigous schools in the country.
> 
> A Delta operator would have a tough time matching a ST6 operator in the water.
> 
> All Indian SF units old and new are pretty good and among the most well trained, it is in the end how they are deployed that makes the difference. The IA at the moment has the worst doctrine of deployment of SF units among the 3 services which actually doesn't surely use the skill to good effect. Garuds/ Marcos have a better role/ deployement doctrine which will allow IN/IAF to use them against an enemy where it really hurts.
> 
> One can say indeed the 9 Para-SF are great warriors for their roles but I am sure a Gurkha or a Ladakh scout is even a better warrior of the mountains, there is one thing being trained to fight in the mountains and there is another being born there and trained to rule there since birth.
> 
> Now from what we also know between SFF/ Marcos/ Para SF/ NSG and Garuds, there seem to be additonal special teams within each force i.e the ultra elite in case of the NSG revealed recently is the so called Phantom Unit i.e 1 percenters who are sent out for highly classified additional training.



Stop the bullshit here Iitself and provide me a link of Garuds having divers as you claim.

Secondly Marcos had no casualty because they didnt have any kill which is because they hardly engaged any terrorists for a kill.They were only saving their day.

Thirdly provide me the link of MARCOS doing HAWS training and operation.


StormShadow said:


> Hey...go easy! MARCOS or PARAs, they all are serving one nation under different units! They themselves wont fight like this. Please relax....This is a request.


I reply in the tone I am questioned.

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## StormShadow

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I reply in the tone I am questioned.


I follow your posts interestingly as I learn lot from it sir. But please, if you feel offended by any post,attack the poster...not the unit. They are also as patriotic and as sacrificial in their duty as any other unit. And kindly dont think otherwise...consider it as a request.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

StormShadow said:


> I follow your posts interestingly as I learn lot from it sir. But please, if you feel offended by any post,attack the poster...not the unit. They are also as patriotic and as sacrificial in their duty as any other unit. And kindly dont think otherwise...consider it as a request.




I am sorry but I wont let any Tom, Dick Harry take credit from our Para boys who are over stressed for operations in Kashmir.Having been seen closely how much they stretch for the sake of country I cant let any one assume things sitting in his AC room of Marcos and Garuds doing things which they do not.

I will repeat this 10000 times that after Para SF there is only Ghatak and RR doing the bulk of operation. 

MARCOS and Garuds are high on publicity and low on field action.

Those who have a relative in Army would know what I talk about and what is the reality...Others can even include Kerala Thunderbolts into SFF and let AGRA PD Commandos do amphibious ops.

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## StormShadow

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am sorry but I wont let any Tom, Dick Harry take credit from our Para boys who are over stressed for operations in Kashmir.Having been seen closely how much they stretch for the sake of country I cant let any one assume things sitting in his AC room of Marcos and Garuds doing things which they do not.
> 
> I will repeat this 10000 times that after Para SF there is only Ghatak and RR doing the bulk of operation.
> 
> MARCOS and Garuds are high on publicity and low on field action.
> 
> Those who have a relative in Army would know what I talk about and what is the reality...Others can even include Kerala Thunderbolts into SFF and let AGRA PD Commandos do amphibious ops.


Yes brother, you are completely entitled to your view and I respect your opinion. Go ballistic on the poster but please dont bad mouth the other units. They are also doing a great service to our nation just like the PARAs and laying down their lives for the sake of you and me....


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

StormShadow said:


> Yes brother, you are completely entitled to your view and I respect your opinion. Go ballistic on the poster but please dont bad mouth the other units. They are also doing a great service to our nation just like the PARAs and laying down their lives for the sake of you and me....




I have respect for everyone who chooses to serve the country.

My abusive language is meant for the poster whole hearterdly and many others like him/her who are high on weed.


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## StormShadow

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have respect for everyone who chooses to serve the country.
> 
> *My abusive language is meant for the poster *whole hearterdly and many others like him/her who are high on weed.


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## Jason bourne

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have respect for everyone who chooses to serve the country.
> 
> My abusive language is meant for the poster whole hearterdly and many others like him/her who are high on weed.




Sant gada dhari bhim sant

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## Omega007

I was waiting exactly for this,thanks @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ,because I couldn't have done it as good myself.I'm sick and tired of morons claiming MARCOS being the best,MARCOS being better than Para etc.
Heck they can't even see the obvious,the room intervention drill by the MARCOS was beyond pathetic to say the least.Yet people always fall for their PR videos and "trained like SEALs" bs!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> I was waiting exactly for this,thanks @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ,because I couldn't have done it as good myself.I'm seek and tired of morons claiming MARCOS being the best,MARCOS being better than Para etc.
> Heck they can't even see the obvious,the room intervention drill by the MARCOS was beyond pathetic to say the least.Yet people always fall for their PR videos and "trained like SEALs" bs!!




Hollywood fanboys who have no connection with people fighting in Kashmir.So when they watch Hollywood movie they connect it to India and just because Marines and Seals rock over there the Marcos have to here.

They dont see that Marines have a long history of operations and experience whereas the Marcos dont.

Para SF has been active since 1965..The Marcos didnt even exist then.

Garuds are basically a force to protect the air bases.They dont have a diver unit..they dont have a Explosive Unit or a unit trained for HAW or Desert Ops.

I am seriously surprised by what people are assuming here.

I mean whats next...Force 1 doing guerilla ops or Kerala Thunderbolts doing HALO jumps?

SFF is under ARMY and there are a few pics to prove it yet people are saying that Marcos are a part of SFF.

Just to make it sound cool they say even SG has Marcos and Garud.

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Hollywood fanboys who have no connection with people fighting in Kashmir.So when they watch Hollywood movie they connect it to India and just because Marines and Seals rock over there the Marcos have to here.
> 
> They dont see that Marines have a long history of operations and experience whereas the Marcos dont.
> 
> Para SF has been active since 1965..The Marcos didnt even exist then.
> 
> Garuds are basically a force to protect the air bases.They dont have a diver unit..they dont have a Explosive Unit or a unit trained for HAW or Desert Ops.
> 
> I am seriously surprised by what people are assuming here.
> 
> I mean whats next...Force 1 doing guerilla ops or Kerala Thunderbolts doing HALO jumps?
> 
> SFF is under ARMY and there are a few pics to prove it yet people are saying that Marcos are a part of SFF.
> 
> Just to make it sound cool they say even SG has Marcos and Garud.



Wow!!MARCOS and Garuds in SG!!Really!!New height of stupidity I must say.Judging by their respective performance so far,they ain't gonna make the cut in next 50 years at least.Mark my words for it.

Besides,many people who claim that MARCOS are trained in HAW and cites their deployment in the Dal lake regions of the lower altitudes,they most probably don't know the difference between mountain warfare and HAW!!There begins all the fu@k ups and then,lo and behold.........you've got MARCOS kicking @rses above 16000 feet altitudes in pure Hollywood style!!Congrats,mission accomplished.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Wow!!MARCOS and Garuds in SG!!Really!!New height of stupidity I must say.Judging by their respective performance so far,they ain't gonna make the cut in next 50 years at least.Mark my words for it.
> 
> Besides,many people who claim that MARCOS are trained in HAW and cites their deployment in the Dal lake regions of the lower altitudes,they most probably don't know the difference between mountain warfare and HAW!!There begins all the fu@k ups and then,lo and behold.........you've got MARCOS kicking @rses above 16000 feet altitudes in pure Hollywood style!!Congrats,mission accomplished.



HAWS is no shit...and HAWS is not related to Marcos deployment in Wular...I mean its laughable...These people would never understand but all the best operators in HAW belong to the Army and if you wanna behead me for that then so be it.

We have Ghataks and Infantry units deployed for 3 years in High Altitude and training continously but peoole here say that Commandos based in Vishakhapatnam or Mumbai base and belonging to Navy will beat them in HAW..Really? I mean why dont you book a ticket to Leh and run a few miles to see how you perform as compared to Your home town forget about SF.

Garuds have divers, explosive units and desert terrain expertise according to them.I mean are you kidding me.

In India and sorry to say this again the Gorkha Ghataks can give a run for their money to any SF except in water bodies...and I am not the only one saying that...Many IA officers will agree with my this statement.

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> HAWS is no shit...and HAWS is not related to Marcos deployment in Wular...I mean its laughable...These people would never understand but all the best operators in HAW belong to the Army and if you wanna behead me for that then so be it.
> 
> We have Ghataks and Infantry units deployed for 3 years in High Altitude and training continously but peoole here say that Commandos based in Vishakhapatnam or Mumbai base and belonging to Navy will beat them in HAW..Really? I mean why dont you book a ticket to Leh and run a few miles to see how you perform as compared to Your home town forget about SF.
> 
> Garuds have divers, explosive units and desert terrain expertise according to them.I mean are you kidding me.
> 
> In India and sorry to say this again the Gorkha Ghataks can give a run for their money to any SF except in water bodies...and I am not the only one saying that...Many IA officers will agree with my this statement.



Of course.......It's HAW after all!!I remember when I had travelled to the Gurdongmer lake in Sikkim for the first time.Situated at an altitude of about 17400 feet,within a few minutes of our arrival I began to feel the pinch.And I practice bare knuckle fighting,you know how much tiring it is!!I can only imagine the effects of prolonged deployments at far higher altitudes.

Many do not realise that Wular region is not particularly considered to be a high altitude area as per Indian Army standards.What these MARCOS fanboys claim to be a very harsh unforgiving terrain,for the Army it would be like a peace location......literally.

And yeah,the RR Ghataks........especially those trained in the High Altitude Commando School in Tawang and the HAWS in Gulmarg,would definitely prove to be a serious menace to the likes of MARCOS (please lets not bring those Garuds here) if it comes to HAW or jungle warfare.And why just MARCOS,these guys including the Ladakh Scouts would give any top notch western spec ops forces a very tough run for their money,especially at those terrains.

By the way,do you know what's the average training period of an Indian Army soldier??I heard it to be around 12 months.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Of course.......It's HAW after all!!I remember when I had travelled to the Gurdongmer lake in Sikkim for the first time.Situated at an altitude of about 17400 feet,within a few minutes of our arrival I began to feel the pinch.And I practice bare knuckle fighting,you know how much tiring it is!!I can only imagine the effects of prolonged deployments at far higher altitudes.
> 
> Many do not realise that Wular region is not particularly considered to be a high altitude area as per Indian Army standards.What these MARCOS fanboys claim to be a very harsh unforgiving terrain,for the Army it would be like a peace location......literally.
> 
> And yeah,the RR Ghataks........especially those trained in the High Altitude Commando School in Tawang and the HAWS in Gulmarg,would definitely prove to be a serious menace to the likes of MARCOS (please lets not bring those Garuds here) if it comes to HAW or jungle warfare.And why just MARCOS,these guys including the Ladakh Scouts would give any top notch western spec ops forces a very tough run for their money,especially at those terrains.
> 
> By the way,do you know what's the average training period of an Indian Army soldier??I heard it to be around 12 months.




Peace location at Wular...You are right.BB Cantt is not too far from there j/k

yea it is around 9-12 months but it is a continuous process from Mhow to CBS.

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## nik22

Jason bourne said:


> Sant gada dhari bhim sant


Should be "Shant"


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## Koovie

NEPALESE GURKHA said:


> Most
> Most of these equipment used by Indian special forces are imported 1 what i mean 2 say is china has build capability with its own indigenous weapon.



*Most countries, including the USA import weapons for their SF units! *

Why does it matter if the weaponry of SF units (which is usually quit big anyways) is designed at home? 

SF units chose what they think is the best for them!



NEPALESE GURKHA said:


> Most
> Most of these equipment used by Indian special forces are imported 1 what i mean 2 say is china has build capability with its own indigenous weapon.



That Chinese jeep has totally nothing to do with the US Humvee

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Peace location at Wular...You are right.BB Cantt is not too far from there j/k
> 
> yea it is around 9-12 months but it is a continuous process from Mhow to CBS.



By "peaceful" I meant less hostile terrain and environment.Wullar lake is situated at an average altitude of ~1500 meters,hardly a high altitude area as per Indian Army standards.

By the way,what's the BB Cantonment??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> By "peaceful" I meant less hostile terrain and environment.Wullar lake is situated at an average altitude of ~1500 meters,hardly an high altitude area for Indian Army.
> 
> By the way,what's the BB Cantonment??
> 
> 
> 
> By "peaceful" I meant less hostile terrain and environment.Wullar lake is situated at an average altitude of ~1500 meters,hardly an high altitude area for Indian Army.
> 
> By the way,what's the BB Cantonment??



I was kidding...Badami Bagh Cant is the Army base in Srinagar where families are given accomodation.

Today we should remeber all the soldiers who gave their life for the country in Kargil.

It was Ghatak who captured Tiger Hill and 9th Para SF which conducted many operations.

May the dead Rest In Peace and the enemies get a lesson that no matter what the terrain and features the IA soldiers will not let you stand on Indian territory.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was kidding...Badami Bagh Cant is the Army base in Srinagar where families are given accomodation.
> 
> Today we should remeber all the soldiers who gave their life for the country in Kargil.
> 
> It was Ghatak who captured Tiger Hill and 9th Para SF which conducted many operations.
> 
> May the dead Rest In Peace and the enemies get a lesson that no matter what the terrain and features the IA soldiers will not let you stand on Indian territory.


 
Yes Rest In Peace to all the great solders who laid down their lifes .I am not a macro fanboy but heard somewhere they did behind the enemy line operation during kargil . If Macros have done one then Paras could have done many .do have any info on that? or how true is that marco opeartion

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was kidding...Badami Bagh Cant is the Army base in Srinagar where families are given accomodation.
> 
> Today we should remeber all the soldiers who gave their life for the country in Kargil.
> 
> It was Ghatak who captured Tiger Hill and 9th Para SF which conducted many operations.
> 
> May the dead Rest In Peace and the enemies get a lesson that no matter what the terrain and features the IA soldiers will not let you stand on Indian territory.



Oh yes,the Badami Bagh Army Cantonment!!I've heard about it.

And yes,lest we forget,my utmost respect to the valiant soldiers of the Indian Army,for those who fought in Kargil,those who made the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty,those still living and to those who are guarding the borders right now as we speak.My salute to the ever vigilant sentinels for we can sleep peacefully because you remain awaken,guarding the mountains,the deserts and the jungles to keep us safe.Amen.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> Yes Rest In Peace to all the great solders who laid down their lifes .I am not a macro fanboy but heard somewhere they did behind the enemy line operation during kargil . If Macros have done one then Paras could have done many .do have any info on that? or how true is that marco opeartion




I dont know about that it in detail but I have heard they raided Pakistani Army batteries and were successful.

And Marcos are currently active in anti piracy operations plus they are active in and around Srinagar.

I am looking forward to Marcos opening their CIJWS type school in Goa.

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont know about that it in detail but I have heard they raided Pakistani Army batteries and were successful.
> 
> And Marcos are currently active in anti piracy operations plus they are active in and around Srinagar.
> 
> I am looking forward to Marcos opening their CIJWS type school in Goa.



Is there a suitable jungle for that in Goa??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Is there a suitable jungle for that in Goa??



I dont know...must be.Karnataka coastline would be better IMHO.


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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont know...must be.Karnataka coastline would be better IMHO.



Yeah,Karnataka would be definitely better.By the way,one thing always bothers me.I observe that among our SFs and specialised counter terrorism units,it's only the Para SF personnel that never wear body armors.It almost seems like as if they don't even like to use it altogether.Do you have any idea why??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> Yeah,Karnataka would be definitely better.By the way,one thing always bothers me.I observe that among our SFs and specialised counter terrorism units,it's only the Para SF personnel that never wear body armors.It almost seems like as if they don't even like to use it altogether.Do you have any idea why??



Dude, This was the case in 90s and early 2000s.They basically believed that it wears them down to carry extra load and affects their manoeuvrebility.

But now things have changed.


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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude, This was the case in 90s and early 2000s.They basically believed that it wears them down to carry extra load and affects their manoeuvrebility.
> 
> But now things have changed.



But I don't see them wearing any body armors in recently taken pictures.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> But I don't see them wearing any body armors in recently taken pictures.



Yea..but I see everyone wearing body armour in last 2 years old pics.Other times maybe they got it off after operations.

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## hkdas

*SFF-Unknown HEROES of "Establishment 22"*





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=472126759556557

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> *SFF-Unknown HEROES of "Establishment 22"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=472126759556557



I cant watch it...is it on Youtube.


----------



## hkdas

pics form INDRA 2014...









VBSS of indian navy and russian navy

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> pics form INDRA 2014...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VBSS of indian navy and russian navy




Nice find! 

@Abingdonboy VBSS or Marcos?


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I cant watch it...is it on Youtube.



no youtube link bro.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Nice find!
> 
> @Abingdonboy VBSS or Marcos?



Yea good question .I was wondering that why are they not Marcos since one guy has a patch on his right arm which is similar to Marcos.Moreover VBSS teams dont have Tavor.

Rest @Abingdonboy would tell since he is the Marcos expert.



hkdas said:


> no youtube link bro.


Ok..what Is the content..is it worth putting a few efforts for watching?


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yea good question .I was wondering that why are they not Marcos since one guy has a patch on his right arm which is similar to Marcos.Moreover VBSS teams dont have Tavor.
> 
> Rest @Abingdonboy would tell since he is the Marcos expert.
> 
> 
> Ok..what Is the content..is it worth putting a few efforts for watching?



This pic is from this years Rimpac

You can see an armed sailor on the right side... seems like the uniform and helmet on the previous pic







EDIT: The 2end pic shows VBSS team members using Tavors. Seems that they`ve switched to AR`s.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> This pic is from this years Rimpac
> 
> You can see an armed sailor on the right side... seems like the uniform and helmet on the previous pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: The 2end pic shows VBSS team members using Tavors. Seems that they`ve switched to AR`s.



In the 1st pic I cant figure out the gun.In the second pic the VBSS guy has his back at us so again you cant see the gun.

Maybe they would have switched to Tavor since IN is active in Anti Piracy ops.


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> In the 1st pic I cant figure out the gun.In the second pic the VBSS guy has his back at us so again you cant see the gun.



Mhh I think that you can ID the guns easily as Tavors on this pic


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Mhh I think that you can ID the guns easily as Tavors on this pic




Haha...there are 2 guys who are not wearing digicamo...one has a machine gun and the other has his back at us.Rest everyone has a Tavor and a Digicamo...What do u say?


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Haha...there are 2 guys who are not wearing digicamo...one has a machine gun and the other has his back at us.Rest everyone has a Tavor and a Digicamo...What do u say?



Yup, my guess is that the IN finally got rid the Sterlings and started to switch to digi cam for its VBSS teams


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Yup, my guess is that the IN finally got rid the Sterlings and started to switch to digi cam for its VBSS teams



If the boat had VBSS guys only dont you think everyone would have a digicamo?


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> If the boat had VBSS guys only dont you think everyone would have a digicamo?


Yeah, true... but I think that MARCOS are perfectly capable of operating that boat on their own


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## Varunastra

Marcos or VBSS ??? ...If MARCOS please blur their faces


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok..what Is the content..is it worth putting a few efforts for watching?



old SFF soldiers talking about their experience in 1971 war and the reason for joining the SFF and the purpose of creation of SFF.. SFF desperately want a war with china... (it is a 3:30 min video)

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR i heard that 10 para uses hk-416 is that true?? marcos now uses hk-416s.. but no pics are available...



UDAYCAMPUS said:


> Marcos or VBSS ??? ...If MARCOS please blur their faces


that pics is from INDRA 2014, in that exercise no special forces was involved AFAIK... VBSS operation are regular in naval exercises... the pics are now all over facebook some says they are mix of VBSS and marcos and some says all of them are VBSS..... i think only indian navy knows the truth


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## Varunastra

hkdas said:


> old SFF soldiers talking about their experience in 1971 war and the reason for joining the SFF and the purpose of creation of SFF.. SFF desperately want a war with china... (it is a 3:30 min video)
> 
> COLDHEARTED AVIATOR i heard that 10 para uses hk-416 is that true?? marcos now uses hk-416s.. but no pics are available...
> 
> 
> it is VBSS team of indian navy... that pics is from INDRA 2014, in that exercise no special forces was involved... VBSS operation are regular in naval exercises... the pics are now all over facebook.



yeah thats what i thought at first but the tavors kinda raised some doubts in my mind


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> old SFF soldiers talking about their experience in 1971 war and the reason for joining the SFF and the purpose of creation of SFF.. SFF desperately want a war with china... (it is a 3:30 min video)
> 
> COLDHEARTED AVIATOR i heard that 10 para uses hk-416 is that true?? marcos now uses hk-416s.. but no pics are available...



Source?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> old SFF soldiers talking about their experience in 1971 war and the reason for joining the SFF and the purpose of creation of SFF.. SFF desperately want a war with china... (it is a 3:30 min video)
> 
> COLDHEARTED AVIATOR i heard that 10 para uses hk-416 is that true?? marcos now uses hk-416s.. but no pics are available...
> 
> 
> that pics is from INDRA 2014, in that exercise no special forces was involved AFAIK... VBSS operation are regular in naval exercises... the pics are now all over facebook some says they are mix of VBSS and marcos and some says all of them are VBSS..... i think only indian navy knows the truth



Desert Scorpions have a good kit but I cannot confirm this.There was a pic of a Scorpion Operator of what looked like a SiG..Whats the source of this news that Marcos uses HK416


----------



## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Source?



if you are asking the source on marcos having HK416, then i'm sorry mate i can't put a 45 year old ex-marcos into this page
if you are talking about the army having 416, then i can't find the link now.. i read this on some article with photo of 2 hk416... may be COLDHEARTED AVIATOR can help us in, army SF having 416


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## hkdas

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> yeah thats what i thought at first but the tavors kinda raised some doubts in my mind


like you i am also confused now... some says they are mix of marcos and VBSS team of IN and some says they all are VBSS... the russians you see are certainly not spetsnaz...



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Desert Scorpions have a good kit but I cannot confirm this.There was a pic of a Scorpion Operator of what looked like a SiG..Whats the source of this news that Marcos uses HK416


do you have any friends in SF to ask about this???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> do you have any friends in SF to ask about this???


It will take months to establish contact with my friends(ex RR) who have friends in SF...Will try


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## hkdas

@Koovie i found that photos of HK 416 in indian SF(as the article says) but the details had been removed


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> @Koovie i found that photos of HK 416 in indian SF(as the article says) but the details had been removed




Oh  

Its quite hard to verify anything with those pics^^ 
The hand of that dude in the 1st pics looks to be of a white guy

Do you have the article?


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## Ray_of_Hope

hkdas said:


> @Koovie i found that photos of HK 416 in indian SF(as the article says) but the details had been removed


Brilliant looking gun.Any info on the rate of fire,range,etc?


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## Koovie

war khan said:


> Brilliant looking gun.Any info on the rate of fire,range,etc?


Best source is the manufacturers website:
Heckler & Koch :: Product Overview | HK416 A5 - 11"


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Oh
> 
> Its quite hard to verify anything with those pics^^
> The hand of that dude in the 1st pics looks to be of a white guy
> 
> Do you have the article?



And the door in the second pic looks more American than Indian. LoL

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And the door in the second pic looks more American than Indian. LoL


I had the same thought in my mind but dropped it


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## Ray_of_Hope

hkdas said:


> @Koovie i found that photos of HK 416 in indian SF(as the article says) but the details had been removed


Brilliant looking gun.Any info on the rate of fire,range,etc?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> @Koovie i found that photos of HK 416 in indian SF(as the article says) but the details had been removed



BS.. There arent indian rather taken from here:

МилитаризмЪ - Забавная фигня






The second pic belongs to some guy on HK forum:

HK416 Owners Picture Thread (genuine HK416's only please)

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> pics form INDRA 2014...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VBSS of indian navy and russian navy





Koovie said:


> Nice find!
> @Abingdonboy VBSS or Marcos?


VBSS IMHO- I've heard for some time the IN was issuing Tavors to the VBSS teams so this correlates with that. It seems the US UCP is now the standard issue camo for the IN's fighting wings (VBSS, SOF, SPB, Divers etc). 

This is very unlikely to be MARCOs as these are standard naval drills involving VBSS but aren't SOF-oreientated at all and more often than not SFs train with other SFs, the Russians haven't sent their Navy SFs to this exercise so I doubt the IN has. And with the IN having placed a lot of emphasis on raising these VBSS teams it would make little sense to send MARCOs for VBSS joint training.


Btw the VBSS teams initially were trained by the MARCOs.



hkdas said:


> COLDHEARTED AVIATOR i heard that 10 para uses hk-416 is that true?? marcos now uses hk-416s.. but no pics are available...





hkdas said:


> @Koovie i found that photos of HK 416 in indian SF(as the article says) but the details had been removed


I have seen the rumours of PARA (SF) and MARCOs having the HK-416 for a while but never been confirmed and these two pics don't seem to point to it at all. The first pic the operator is wearing Multi-Cam (AFIAK not used by any force in India) and the second pic looks like an American fanboy's bedroom.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> VBSS IMHO- I've heard for some time the IN was issuing Tavors to the VBSS teams so this correlates with that. It seems the US UCP is now the standard issue camo for the IN's fighting wings (VBSS, SOF, SPB, Divers etc).
> 
> This is very unlikely to be MARCOs as these are standard naval drills involving VBSS but aren't SOF-oreientated at all and more often than not SFs train with other SFs, the Russians haven't sent their Navy SFs to this exercise so I doubt the IN has. And with the IN having placed a lot of emphasis on raising these VBSS teams it would make little sense to send MARCOs for VBSS joint training.
> 
> 
> Btw the VBSS teams initially were trained by the MARCOs.
> .


VBSS is nothing but a group of sailors/trained in VBSS ops... yes they are trained by marcos, do you think navy will equip the VBSS in marcos standard? still few months ago they uses WW-2 weapons!!



Abingdonboy said:


> I have seen the rumours of PARA (SF) and MARCOs having the HK-416 for a while but never been confirmed and these two pics don't seem to point to it at all. The first pic the operator is wearing Multi-Cam (AFIAK not used by any force in India) and the second pic looks like an American fanboy's bedroom.



may be they use a file photo for that news... do you have any contacts for confirmation??


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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> VBSS is nothing but a group of sailors/trained in VBSS ops... yes they are trained by marcos, do you think navy will equip the VBSS in marcos standard? still few months ago they uses WW-2 weapons!!
> 
> 
> 
> may be they use a file photo for that news... do you have any contacts for confirmation??



Yes a file photo of an unknown article(which you have yet to post) using pics from a Russian source and another from HK forum ..


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> VBSS is nothing but a group of sailors/trained in VBSS ops... yes they are trained by marcos, *do you think navy will equip the VBSS in marcos standard? *still few months ago they uses WW-2 weapons!!



There is nothing special about having uniforms with digi camo and Tavors 



Even many state police units switched over to similar equipment. Every Tom, Dick and Harry seems to use them in India these days, it was just a question of time until the IN would finally replace the small arms of its VBSS teams.

And the mere fact that we have seen pics of armed personal in digi camo guarding ships (Rimpac 2014 pics) and training with Russian sailors points out that they simply got new gear.

*Marcos dont stand on decks guarding ships during a port visit.*

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> VBSS is nothing but a group of sailors/trained in VBSS ops... yes they are trained by marcos, do you think navy will equip the VBSS in marcos standard? still few months ago they uses WW-2 weapons!!


I know what VBSS is but they need to be equipped properly the IN is aware of this. Given the IN's consistent exposure to anti-piracy missions over the past few years the need to have well trained and well equipped VBSS teams has become evident and to be fair the IN VBSS teams have had pretty good gear but have been lacking on the personal weapon front only:




















As has been pointed out by @Koovie, a Tavor is nothing special in India anymore all 3 SOFs are equipped with it (not to mention CAPFs and local/state police units) so naturally it will trickle down to the other specialist units where needed. As for digicam (UCP) this is accepted as the IN's combat uniform now and is worn by the relevant wings, I've seen IN divers and force protection personal where this uniform so it's no surprise at all the IN's VBSS teams now are also on a need basis. 


Just having a Tavor and Digicam doesn't make these VBSS up to "MARCOs standard" bro. In fact, the latest I've heard is the MARCOs are set to receive their ICS within the next 12 months which will elevate them to perhaps the best equipped SOF in India (although the Garuds and PARA (SF) are perusing their own modernisation programs not to mention the NSG ). 



hkdas said:


> may be they use a file photo for that news... do you have any contacts for confirmation??



It's just rumours in all honesty bro. I've not heard anything concrete from anyone I would trust. Until I see proof I will be skeptical- but then I had been skeptical the MARCOs had ordered Tavors until IWI announced they had delivered the first batch.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

​












INDIAN NAVY MARCOS OLD PIC DURING EX INDRA 2007

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


>


The Marcos using Army camo in Kashmir..there are a few pics of them with DigiCamo..how old is this?



Abingdonboy said:


> I know what VBSS is but they need to be equipped properly the IN is aware of this. Given the IN's consistent exposure to anti-piracy missions over the past few years the need to have well trained and well equipped VBSS teams has become evident and to be fair the IN VBSS teams have had pretty good gear but have been lacking on the personal weapon front only:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has been pointed out by @Koovie, a Tavor is nothing special in India anymore all 3 SOFs are equipped with it (not to mention CAPFs and local/state police units) so naturally it will trickle down to the other specialist units where needed. As for digicam (UCP) this is accepted as the IN's combat uniform now and is worn by the relevant wings, I've seen IN divers and force protection personal where this uniform so it's no surprise at all the IN's VBSS teams now are also on a need basis.
> 
> 
> Just having a Tavor and Digicam doesn't make these VBSS up to "MARCOs standard" bro. In fact, the latest I've heard is the MARCOs are set to receive their ICS within the next 12 months which will elevate them to perhaps the best equipped SOF in India (although the Garuds and PARA (SF) are perusing their own modernisation programs not to mention the NSG ).
> 
> 
> 
> It's just rumours in all honesty bro. I've not heard anything concrete from anyone I would trust. Until I see proof I will be skeptical- but then I had been skeptical the MARCOs had ordered Tavors until IWI announced they had delivered the first batch.



What about the Patch for Marcos batch on the right arm..do VBSS team personnel also wear a similar batch?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What about the Patch for Marcos batch on the right arm..do VBSS team personnel also wear a similar batch?


Yup- they have that White "Indian Navy" patch:


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> There is nothing special about having uniforms with digi camo and Tavors
> 
> 
> 
> Even many state police units switched over to similar equipment. Every Tom, Dick and Harry seems to use them in India these days, it was just a question of time until the IN would finally replace the small arms of its VBSS teams.
> 
> And the mere fact that we have seen pics of armed personal in digi camo guarding ships (Rimpac 2014 pics) and training with Russian sailors points out that they simply got new gear.
> 
> *Marcos dont stand on decks guarding ships during a port visit.*



bro, this is india not US. you know marcos had deployed for coastal patrolling and for other police work during obama's visit to india. do you ever heard about US navy seals deployed for this kind of work in us?? yes they provide security for afghan president only because of the the situation in that country...

you know how our special forces are used... there is nothing to be surprised if they are used for the protection of our ships in russia.
the VBSS was created of the purpose for fight against piracy... the time when the piracy was at its peak the gov. didn't provide them a good weapon, so you think the gov. got a sudden attention on the VBSS???
and AFAIK in india only special forces use side arms...



Abingdonboy said:


> I know what VBSS is but they need to be equipped properly the IN is aware of this. Given the IN's consistent exposure to anti-piracy missions over the past few years the need to have well trained and well equipped VBSS teams has become evident and to be fair the IN VBSS teams have had pretty good gear but have been lacking on the personal weapon front only:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has been pointed out by @Koovie, a Tavor is nothing special in India anymore all 3 SOFs are equipped with it (not to mention CAPFs and local/state police units) so naturally it will trickle down to the other specialist units where needed. As for digicam (UCP) this is accepted as the IN's combat uniform now and is worn by the relevant wings, I've seen IN divers and force protection personal where this uniform so it's no surprise at all the IN's VBSS teams now are also on a need basis.
> 
> 
> Just having a Tavor and Digicam doesn't make these VBSS up to "MARCOs standard" bro. In fact, the latest I've heard is the MARCOs are set to receive their ICS within the next 12 months which will elevate them to perhaps the best equipped SOF in India (although the Garuds and PARA (SF) are perusing their own modernisation programs not to mention the NSG ).
> 
> 
> 
> It's just rumours in all honesty bro. I've not heard anything concrete from anyone I would trust. Until I see proof I will be skeptical- but then I had been skeptical the MARCOs had ordered Tavors until IWI announced they had delivered the first batch.



that m-16 training guns are of US navy.. they provide VBSS team that gun during the exercise...VBSS team are provided with a WW-2 era guns(i forget the name of that gun). tavor is an expensive gun and our gov are in love with cheap weapons. so do you think our gov will provide the VBSS(who are noting but sailors and officers in the ship who got some room intervention training) with a good weapons??

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> you know how our special forces are used... there is nothing to be surprised if they are used for the protection of our ships in russia.
> the VBSS was created of the purpose for fight against piracy... the time when the piracy was at its peak the gov. didn't provide them a good weapon, so you think the gov. got a sudden attention on the VBSS???
> and AFAIK in india only special forces use side arms...




MARCOS dont guard ships. The IN has specialized units from the Sagar Prahari Bal to protect assets on land while the ship crews themselves are more perfectly capable of guarding their own ship on a port visit to a friendly country.

And no, VBSS teams were NOT created as an answer to Somali pirates. Every combat ship has a group of armed sailors for such duties. And the IN had them before the somali pirate thing went off.

And its not the government which decides about the equipment of VBSS teams, its the IN. The IN has been on a long modernizing trip... from aircraft carriers with Mig 29Ks, over stealth frigates and destroyers to the latest surveillance aircraft.

But obviously they cannot pull off everything at a time. And small arms for VBSS teams were not a priority, but eventually, they started getting their new stuff.

*And ordering a bunch of Tavors and new uniforms (the VBSS teams had decent gear way before this exercise) is absolutely nothing special. Like I said, even local Police departments are ordering the same stuff these days.*



hkdas said:


> that m-16 training guns are of US navy.. they provide VBSS team that gun during the exercise...VBSS team are provided with a WW-2 era guns(i forget the name of that gun). tavor is an expensive gun and our gov are in love with cheap weapons. so do you think our gov will provide the VBSS(who are noting but sailors and officers in the ship who got some room intervention training) with a good weapons??



Again, its not the GOI of India which decides such things, its the IN. And the gun you meant was the Sterling SMG

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The Marcos using Army camo in Kashmir..there are a few pics of them with DigiCamo..how old is this?
> 
> 
> 
> What about the Patch for Marcos batch on the right arm..do VBSS team personnel also wear a similar batch?



that pics are from FB...
u see the patch on the marcos is on right arm and VBSS have that on both arm, 




now look this pics, there is only one place for the Patch


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> that pics are from FB...
> u see the patch on the marcos is on right arm and VBSS have that on both arm,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now look this pics, there is only one place for the Patch



That could be because they are wearing new uniforms and they did not put their patch on it for whatever reason.


BTW: Sagar Prahari Bal members also use the same equipment as MARCOS do and they are also "just there to protect Navy assets"

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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> That could be because they are wearing new uniforms and they did not put their patch on it for whatever reason.
> 
> 
> BTW: Sagar Prahari Bal members also use the same equipment as MARCOS do and they are also "just there to protect Navy assets"


bro, we don't konw that is marcos or VBSS... every one says that this is marcos...





look like army special forces selection process....pics are form adgpi indian army facebook page


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## Koovie

*


hkdas said:



bro, we don't konw that is marcos or VBSS... every one says that this is marcos...

Click to expand...


The the thing is that most arguments speak for the claim that they are not MARCOS but part of a VBSS team:

Pro VBSS:

-* Armed personal on ships during a port visit (Rimpac) wearing the same uniforms, and MARCOS do not perform such tasks, its the duty of the crew

- The Indian Navy is on a massive modernization spree, after several significant projects it was the turn for the equipment of our VBSS teams.

- The Sagar Prahari Bal has almost the same equipment that we are talking about!

- Men wearing digi cam uniforms and armed with Tavors riding in boats which are also manned by men in the "older" black VBSS uniforms. Why should MARCOS do this? they are perfectly capable to do it alone.

- The same men have been exercising with Russian sailors, not commandos!

- The helmets which we are seeing in the pic with the Russians have been worn by VBSS members wearing the black uniforms, while the MARCOS were usually wearing helmets which also have camo pattern
*
Contra VBSS:*

- VBSS members were seen using Sterling SMG`s until last year. - That does not make sense, as I said earlier, the IN is modernizing in every sphere and the Tavors are already in service with the MARCOS and the SPB. So it does not surprise that the IN chose to equip the VBSS teams with the same weapons and camo patterns.

- Tavors are too expensive for the GOI. - The GOI does not decide on such things, the Navy decides on it. Sure they are not cheap, but they deliver what the Navy wants. Furthermore, we are not talking about tens of thousand of men who need to be armed with them, VBSS teams are small in comparison to other units. And as said earlier, even small Police Departments are ordering Tavors these days.

Indian units across all services and even in civilian administrated units are in love with them


*

Add more points if you wish to do so*



hkdas said:


> look like army special forces selection process....pics are form adgpi indian army facebook page



Could be regulars as well

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## Varunastra

hkdas said:


> bro, we don't konw that is marcos or VBSS... every one says that this is marcos...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> look like army special forces selection process....pics are form adgpi indian army facebook page



fell sorry for the army whenever i see these wwii helmets


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## Koovie

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> fell sorry for the army whenever i see these wwii helmets



I think its an older pic. 

Troops have started to receive newer helmets, although they are kinda outdated as well. You have to wait till F INSAS






Troopers engaged in J&K usually use Patkas anyways


----------



## hkdas

Koovie said:


> *The the thing is that most arguments speak for the claim that they are not MARCOS but part of a VBSS team:
> 
> Pro VBSS:
> 
> -* Armed personal on ships during a port visit (Rimpac) wearing the same uniforms, and MARCOS do not perform such tasks, its the duty of the crew
> 
> - The Indian Navy is on a massive modernization spree, after several significant projects it was the turn for the equipment of our VBSS teams.
> 
> - The Sagar Prahari Bal has almost the same equipment that we are talking about!
> 
> - Men wearing digi cam uniforms and armed with Tavors riding in boats which are also manned by men in the "older" black VBSS uniforms. Why should MARCOS do this? they are perfectly capable to do it alone.
> 
> - The same men have been exercising with Russian sailors, not commandos!
> 
> - The helmets which we are seeing in the pic with the Russians have been worn by VBSS members wearing the black uniforms, while the MARCOS were usually wearing helmets which also have camo pattern
> *Contra VBSS:*
> 
> - VBSS members were seen using Sterling SMG`s until last year. - That does not make sense, as I said earlier, the IN is modernizing in every sphere and the Tavors are already in service with the MARCOS and the SPB. So it does not surprise that the IN chose to equip the VBSS teams with the same weapons and camo patterns.
> 
> - Tavors are too expensive for the GOI. - The GOI does not decide on such things, the Navy decides on it. Sure they are not cheap, but they deliver what the Navy wants. Furthermore, we are not talking about tens of thousand of men who need to be armed with them, VBSS teams are small in comparison to other units. And as said earlier, even small Police Departments are ordering Tavors these days.
> 
> Indian units across all services and even in civilian administrated units are in love with them
> 
> 
> *Add more points if you wish to do so*
> 
> 
> 
> Could be regulars as well


as i say before.. only navy knows who they are.....
what about this helmet?? never saw VBSS having this kind
and also the ex marcos i know says this guys are marcos. shiv aroor(livefist defence) also says this is marcos. i don't think VBSS need UGL in their guns!!


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> as i say before.. only navy knows who they are.....
> what about this helmet?? never saw VBSS having this kind
> and also the ex marcos i know says this guys are marcos. shiv aroor(livefist defence) also says this is marcos



What I meant was that the black helmets of those Indians posing with the Russians was seen on VBSS guys earlier.


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> What I meant was that the black helmets of those Indians posing with the Russians was seen on VBSS guys earlier.



ya i know that... i was talking about the above pics.. you said he is also VBSS.... i don't think a VBSS team will need a UGL.


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> ya i know that... i was talking about the above pics.. you said he is also VBSS.... i don't think a VBSS team will need a UGL.



Really? where did I say so?

If so, it was a mistake. He is part of the SPB not VBSS.


----------



## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> look like army special forces selection process....pics are form adgpi indian army facebook page


Not SF at all- could be engineers.



hkdas said:


> bro, we don't konw that is marcos or VBSS... every one says that this is marcos...


Who is this "everyone?"



hkdas said:


> bro, this is india not US. you know marcos had deployed for coastal patrolling and for other police work during obama's visit to india


That was a one off, Obama landed at the Mumbai naval base where the MARCOs are also deployed- in no way is this their regular duty nor are they deployed for coastal protection- what do you think the ICG and Marine Police are for?



hkdas said:


> the VBSS was created of the purpose for fight against piracy... the time when the piracy was at its peak the gov. didn't provide them a good weapon, so you think the gov. got a sudden attention on the VBSS???
> and AFAIK in india only special forces use side arms...


VBSS is not a piracy only requirement. VBSS is a standard unit every modern warship will have and is much older than the recent Somali piracy troubles. Today the IN is still deployed in such duties so and regardless having a well trained and well equipped VBSS is a MUST. Your points about the Gov are entirely moot- do you think the GoI gives a sh!t about what small arms the military uses? The decisions for such things are made by the respective military wings - in this case the IN, and why wouldn't they okay a deal for Tavors? The cost would be negligible when seen in the context of the IN's annual Capital Expenditure budget and the IN is looking to modernise across the board that is in every facet and VBSS teams are important. 

When you see CAPFs and state police forces running around with Tavors do you really think the Gov would object to the VBSS having them (not that they would even care)? 

I'm sorry but your points are very very weak.



hkdas said:


> ya i know that... i was talking about the above pics.. you said he is also VBSS.... i don't think a VBSS team will need a UGL.


That guy is SPB- they are responsible for force protection of all IN assets including IN warships when in IN ports.

VBSS is for one very specific task (hint it's in the name)* Visit, Board, Search, Seizure. *They aren't responsible for force protection either (when at sea that would be the responsibility of the warship's security company).

I don't understand why this is so hard to swallow- we've seen IN VBSS teams with new kit (helmets, goggles, comns devices, knee/elbow pads etc) the only thing new here is the digicam and the Tavor which have become very common in the CAPFs themselves so why won't you believe the VBSS would get this also?



hkdas said:


> still few months ago they uses WW-2 weapons!!


Utterly irrelevant- a few years ago the BSF and other CAPFs were using the WW-2 Sterlings and now they have the X-95 (MTAR) along with their own Digicamos- do you not accept things can change?

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> u see the patch on the marcos is on right arm and VBSS have that on both arm,


That really doesn't mean a THING.


----------



## NEPALESE GURKHA

one question to my Indian friend is there a provision of different camouflage with different unit with in army?


----------



## Varunastra

Koovie said:


> I think its an older pic.
> 
> Troops have started to receive newer helmets, although they are kinda outdated as well. You have to wait till F INSAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Troopers engaged in J&K usually use Patkas anyways



Is it actually true that patkas can stop ak rounds with ease ? why hasn't the whole army switched to using patkas ?


----------



## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Not SF at all- could be engineers.


may be... i said special forces because of the way they carry the inflatable boat... for carrying that boat there is no need for any stretchers. they can be carried like this




in special forces selection process the candidates are told to carry that boat after making some stretchers with some wooden sticks(something like you see in that pics) or without touching that boat this is to test how they think under stress.. i saw somthing like like this in US special forces training( in a documentary, in that US special forces candidates have to carry something else)...



Abingdonboy said:


> That was a one off, Obama landed at the Mumbai naval base where the MARCOs are also deployed- in no way is this their regular duty nor are they deployed for coastal protection- what do you think the ICG and Marine Police are for?


marcos form kochi, mumbai and goa are deployed at mumbai for the protection of obama.. is that the job of marcos?? why should navy deploy them?? that job had to be done by some police force not special forces.


----------



## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> VBSS is not a piracy only requirement. VBSS is a standard unit every modern warship will have and is much older than the recent Somali piracy troubles. Today the IN is still deployed in such duties so and regardless having a well trained and well equipped VBSS is a MUST. Your points about the Gov are entirely moot- do you think the GoI gives a sh!t about what small arms the military uses? The decisions for such things are made by the respective military wings - in this case the IN, and why wouldn't they okay a deal for Tavors? The cost would be negligible when seen in the context of the IN's annual Capital Expenditure budget and the IN is looking to modernise across the board that is in every facet and VBSS teams are important.
> 
> When you see CAPFs and state police forces running around with Tavors do you really think the Gov would object to the VBSS having them (not that they would even care)?


sorry mate looks like i mix up VBSS and SSB... 
the decision to select the weapon is done by military but MoD and FM will decide buy that weapon or not... it is the problem faced by indian armed forces, this is the reason why our armed forces still uses outdated weapons...



Abingdonboy said:


> Utterly irrelevant- a few years ago the BSF and other CAPFs were using the WW-2 Sterlings and now they have the X-95 (MTAR) along with their own Digicamos- do you not accept things can change?



they still uses WW-2 Sterlings.


----------



## Koovie

hkdas said:


> they still uses WW-2 Sterlings.



Not really, BSF has replaced them with Beretta made Mx4`s while the CRPF is replacing them with MP 5s and X 95s.






Regular CRPF members


----------



## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> may be... i said special forces because of the way they carry the inflatable boat... for carrying that boat there is no need for any stretchers. they can be carried like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in special forces selection process the candidates are told to carry that boat after making some stretchers with some wooden sticks(something like you see in that pics) or without touching that boat this is to test how they think under stress.. i saw somthing like like this in US special forces training( in a documentary, in that US special forces candidates have to carry something else)...
> 
> 
> marcos form kochi, mumbai and goa are deployed at mumbai for the protection of obama.. is that the job of marcos?? why should navy deploy them?? that job had to be done by some police force not special forces.


Just because this is how certain units in the US do something you think everyone has to follow suit? The men are engineers and NOT SF, this pic is nothing to do with SF selection.



hkdas said:


> marcos form kochi, mumbai and goa are deployed at mumbai for the protection of obama.. is that the job of marcos?? why should navy deploy them?? that job had to be done by some police force not special forces.


Where did you come to the understanding that MARCOs were deployed from Goa and Kochi for Obama's visit? The MARCOs were only from the Mumbai navy base (MARCOs West) which is one of 3 MARCOs bases (East,South and West). As MARINE ONE was landing at the Indian navy base it made sense for the MARCOs who were on the site to handle some perimeter protection tasks as the IN is responsible for security on their bases, it is highly irregular for civilian police forces to come onto their bases to carry out such tasks. You can't read much into this SOLITARY incident.



hkdas said:


> they still uses WW-2 Sterlings.


Wrong again:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Yup- they have that White "Indian Navy" patch:



Ok..I am doubtful as the source says it is a mix.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok..I am doubtful as the source says it is a mix.


What source is that bro? And a mix makes little sense- in what real-world scenario would MARCOs mix with VBSS teams?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, this is india not US. you know marcos had deployed for coastal patrolling and for other police work during obama's visit to india. do you ever heard about US navy seals deployed for this kind of work in us?? yes they provide security for afghan president only because of the the situation in that country...
> 
> you know how our special forces are used... there is nothing to be surprised if they are used for the protection of our ships in russia.
> the VBSS was created of the purpose for fight against piracy... the time when the piracy was at its peak the gov. didn't provide them a good weapon, so you think the gov. got a sudden attention on the VBSS???
> and AFAIK in india only special forces use side arms...
> 
> 
> 
> that m-16 training guns are of US navy.. they provide VBSS team that gun during the exercise...VBSS team are provided with a WW-2 era guns(i forget the name of that gun). tavor is an expensive gun and our gov are in love with cheap weapons. so do you think our gov will provide the VBSS(who are noting but sailors and officers in the ship who got some room intervention training) with a good weapons??



Bro..you got valid points.



Abingdonboy said:


> What source is that bro? And a mix makes little sense- in what real-world scenario would MARCOs mix with VBSS teams?



Facebook Marcos page...isnt it?



hkdas said:


> that pics are from FB...
> u see the patch on the marcos is on right arm and VBSS have that on both arm,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now look this pics, there is only one place for the Patch



That is what I was saying.


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro..you got valid points.
> 
> 
> 
> Facebook Marcos page...isnt it?
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I was saying.



Not really, read post Today at 4:15 PM#4182


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, we don't konw that is marcos or VBSS... every one says that this is marcos...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> look like army special forces selection process....pics are form adgpi indian army facebook page



Infantry unit...Not SF.



Koovie said:


> Not really, read post Today at 4:15 PM#4182



Lets agree to disagree my friend...I have limited knowledge of Naval stuff.

Lets wait for a few weeks until new pics emerge of VBSS teams.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Facebook Marcos page...isnt it?



That joker??! 


I wouldn't trust him to tell me the time of day.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Lets wait for a few weeks until new pics emerge of VBSS teams.


Probably have to wait longer than that- how often do we see VBSS teams of the IN? Once a year -if that. And anyway it will take 1-2 years for all VBSS teams in the IN to be equipped like this.

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Lets agree to disagree my friend...I have limited knowledge of Naval stuff.
> 
> Lets wait for a few weeks until new pics emerge of VBSS teams.



Lets wait till the next exercise. 

@Abingdonboy 

Malabar 2014 is running as we speak... with some luck, we might see some more pics of them


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Lets wait till the next exercise.
> 
> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Malabar 2014 is running as we speak... with some luck, we might see some more pics of them


Perhaps- wouldn't hold my breath


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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


>



Why do these guys have 3 different fire arms. Makes no sense why they keep buying from left and right.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF COMMANDOS COAS BGs













INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Facebook Marcos page...isnt it?
> 
> .


no bro it is not marcos facebook page, that page admins are fanboys... the pics was 1st posted in another page..



Abingdonboy said:


> Perhaps- wouldn't hold my breath




did navy have any official facebook/twitter page like army have??


----------



## hkdas

marcos using black helmet, same type that is used by VBSS






























^^ Ajay Thapa 




^^^ ABNESH KUMAR SAXENA


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## hkdas

marcos





Ajay Thapa in somalia

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## Mike_Brando

hkdas said:


> bro, we don't konw that is marcos or VBSS... every one says that this is marcos...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> look like army special forces selection process....pics are form adgpi indian army facebook page


@Abingdonboy buddy just look at the assault rifle carried by the soldier in the right.Is it a version of Galil??I am quite sure that it isn't an INSAS LMG,so is it possible that our troops have been using Galil A.R. for sometime now??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Mike_Brando said:


> @Abingdonboy buddy just look at the assault rifle carried by the soldier in the right.Is it a version of Galil??I am quite sure that it isn't an INSAS LMG,so is it possible that our troops have been using Galil A.R. for sometime now??



That is Insas LMG...lets stop cooking rumours.

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## Mike_Brando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That is Insas LMG...lets stop cooking rumours.


If you look carefully at the picture you'll see that the barrel of the LMG is much longer than that of a standard INSAS LMG.Plus i myself have magnified the pic and have compared it with an INSAS LMG but i can assure you that they aren't similar provided that this is a modified newer version of the standard one...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Mike_Brando said:


> If you look carefully at the picture you'll see that the barrel of the LMG is much longer than that of a standard INSAS LMG.Plus i myself have magnified the pic and have compared it with an INSAS LMG but i can assure you that they aren't similar provided that this is a modified newer version of the standard one...



Sirji..Kindly re magnify it to see the bipod.


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## Koovie

Water Car Engineer said:


> Why do these guys have 3 different fire arms. Makes no sense why they keep buying from left and right.



AK as an AR

X 95 as a carabine

Mx4 as a SMG



Mike_Brando said:


> If you look carefully at the picture you'll see that the barrel of the LMG is much longer than that of a standard INSAS LMG.Plus i myself have magnified the pic and have compared it with an INSAS LMG but i can assure you that they aren't similar provided that this is a modified newer version of the standard one...

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## hkdas

marcos with NCC CADETS

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## Koovie




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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Which Para Commando was rescued by Marcos..provide me the link?
> 
> Marcos work in and around Wular lake.People like you keep day dreaming stuff about Marcos and Garuds but the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day these great Marcos score nowhere near the top in CIJWS...Please provide me the link of Marcos being deployed in Kupwara or Doda?
> 
> Marcos kept the operation secret as compared to Army...Oh please give me a break.The Marcos were so irresponsible that they gave the interview when NSG was getting its hands dirty.
> 
> Have u even bothered to look at their room clearence drill video in 26/11...its just too pathetic.
> 
> Paras have done 10000 times more operations than Marcos.
> 
> Dont fucking give any importance to what I say...do one thing go to google and search how many navy people and how many paras have won the bravery award.You will get an idea as to who is more active.
> 
> And sorry to bust the Times of India Indian Seal bubble but even the Gurkha Ghataks can give the Garuds and Marcos a run for their money in any fcking terrain except around water bodies.



sorry, my mistake...that rescue was an army-marcos joint operation.. that operation was to rescue 36 para commandos of 10 para. i read about that from an article in bharat rakshak. now that link had been withdrawn for the internet.. if you have any friends in 10 para you can ask them about this operation or anyone who have any contacts in navy(marcos) can check this.

marcos give that interview only because they were ordered to do so. you may remember that during that time sushil kumar shinde(MoHA) give an official statement to media that those terrorist in mumbai attack were local hindu extremists, and mumbai police ATS had neutralised them. he say this on the 1st day even before NSG started their operation. after AF helicopter dropped NSG, people were in chaos. so marcos( as the 1st unit who started operation in taj) ordered to give that overview(as you say).

i don't know about the marcos's performance in CIJWS or in any other army run schools..so i don't want to comment on this.

yes paras had done more operations than maroc in kashmir and NE as that is their area. look only a handful of marcos are deployed in kashmir( less that 100). more than 2000 para commandos are deployed in kashmir alone, so obviously paras had done more operations than marcos.

if the marcos CQB or room clearance were worse then para are no better... before 26/11 our gov. or military never give much importance to cqb techniques. marcos were raised as a force to do QCB and initially they were trained by both SG and NSG..



bro, look i am here not to prove marcos are better than para commanods..you don't have to get angry on me. what i am telling is from what i read or know. i know you have friends in army, but you have to understand that i have contacts in navy, my friend is marcos. i have no intention to prove marcos is the best...
marcos personals are selected to SG. this is happening since 1987.
this man




MARCO ABNESH KUMAR SAXENA was in SG.
Marco AADESH KUMAR being awarded Shaurya Chakra this year for displayed professional acumen, comradeship and raw courage in fighting the terrorists in kashmir during a joint ops with army special forcs(to be precise 9th para) ...






> ""Based on intelligence inputs of presence of 4-5 militants in Chehar village located at an altitude of approximately 2500m above sea level,a joint operation was launched by a team of 9 ParaSF ,27 RR and Marcos to neutralize the militants.
> 
> On 13 December 2012 on completion of 48 hr surveillance mission the team was tasked to return to the detachment and MARCOS team was tasked to carry out a search of a nearby location from where a satellite intercept had been obtained.Suddenly the Marcos team came under heavy fire from automatic weapons and grenades from terrorists hiding in the thick vegetation . Realizing the danger to the team,Marco Adesh Kumar with utter disregard to personal safety charged towards militant group firing rapidly from his LMG Negev.During the charge Marco Adesh was hit by militant bullets in stomach and legs.Despite grievous injuries and excessive bleeding he continued the charge towards the militants.In the process not only the enemy fire was suppressed but one hardcore militant was also killed.
> 
> Marco Adesh Kumar displayed professional acumen, comradeship and raw courage in fighting the terrorists."""


^^ you see, marcos do operations with para commandos at places other than rivers/lakes in kashmir.
marcos holds a record of having no casualty during its operations in sri lanka and in somalia
this man Ajay Thapa, 




you see a seal trident on this uniform?? it was given by a US navy seal team 6 commando for Mr. Ajay Thapa's courage and his performance in somalia. you can imagine how marcos performs in somalia if a navy seal give his trident to this man as a honour to his performance.

marcos is at war since the creation of the unit i request you to show some respect to the unit marcos. form sri lanka to kashmir they are always at war. bro you have to understand that if a small unit like marcos which are always understaffed because of its rigorous training and are busy with anti-piracy operations, deployed in kashmir because of something special in them. they are not in kashmir to operates only in water (that can be done by army divers)

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## Water Car Engineer

Koovie said:


> AK as an AR
> 
> X 95 as a carabine
> 
> Mx4 as a SMG




You dont need to make it that complicated.

US border forces are usually using M4s, sometimes M16s sharing same magazines and ammo These guys have 4 completely different family of guns now with three different ammo. Three of which it doesnt make locally, makes NO sense.














And what is up with the mix of camos too. I dont even understand the logistics sometimes. Like they're sourcing camo from 5 different vendors?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> sorry, my mistake...that rescue was an army-marcos joint operation.. that operation was to rescue 36 para commandos of 10 para. i read about that from an article in bharat rakshak. now that link had been withdrawn for the internet.. if you have any friends in 10 para you can ask them about this operation or anyone who have any contacts in navy(marcos) can check this.
> 
> marcos give that interview only because they were ordered to do so. you may remember that during that time sushil kumar shinde(MoHA) give an official statement to media that those terrorist in mumbai attack were local hindu extremists, and mumbai police ATS had neutralised them. he say this on the 1st day even before NSG started their operation. after AF helicopter dropped NSG, people were in chaos. so marcos( as the 1st unit who started operation in taj) ordered to give that overview(as you say).
> 
> i don't know about the marcos's performance in CIJWS or in any other army run schools..so i don't want to comment on this.
> 
> yes paras had done more operations than maroc in kashmir and NE as that is their area. look only a handful of marcos are deployed in kashmir( less that 100). more than 2000 para commandos are deployed in kashmir alone, so obviously paras had done more operations than marcos.
> 
> if the marcos CQB or room clearance were worse then para are no better... before 26/11 our gov. or military never give much importance to cqb techniques. marcos were raised as a force to do QCB and initially they were trained by both SG and NSG..
> 
> 
> 
> bro, look i am here not to prove marcos are better than para commanods..you don't have to get angry on me. what i am telling is from what i read or know. i know you have friends in army, but you have to understand that i have contacts in navy, my friend is marcos. i have no intention to prove marcos is the best...
> marcos personals are selected to SG. this is happening since 1987.
> this man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARCO ABNESH KUMAR SAXENA was in SG.
> Marco AADESH KUMAR being awarded Shaurya Chakra this year for displayed professional acumen, comradeship and raw courage in fighting the terrorists in kashmir during a joint ops with army special forcs(to be precise 9th para) ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ you see, marcos do operations with para commandos at places other than rivers/lakes in kashmir.
> marcos holds a record of having no casualty during its operations in sri lanka and in somalia
> this man Ajay Thapa,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you see a seal trident on this uniform?? it was given by a US navy seal team 6 commando for Mr. Ajay Thapa's courage and his performance in somalia. you can imagine how marcos performs in somalia if a navy seal give his trident to this man as a honour to his performance.
> 
> marcos is at war since the creation of the unit i request you to show some respect to the unit marcos. form sri lanka to kashmir they are always at war. bro you have to understand that if a small unit like marcos which are always understaffed because of its rigorous training and are busy with anti-piracy operations, deployed in kashmir because of something special in them. they are not in kashmir to operates only in water (that can be done by army divers)



Firstly 2000 Para are not deployed in Kashmir .They are less than 500 in number.

Secondly Abnesh Saxena was doing a joint operation with 27 RR Ghatak and 9 Para SF...where is it written that he is in SG?

Provide me a single source where it is written that Marcos and Garuds are part of SG.When they are not part of SFF how can they be in SG.

Stop cooking rumors snd giving undeserving credit to people...give it to those who deserve it more.

I respect everyone but some are more deserving for me and i mean no disrespect to anyone.


----------



## Unknowncommando

IS THAT A SF OPERATOR WEARING JUNGLE MARPAT CAMO @Koovie @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR




PARA SF COMMANDOS OLD PIC




INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## IndoUS

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 40968
> 
> IS THAT A SF OPERATOR WEARING JUNGLE MARPAT CAMO
> View attachment 40969
> 
> PARA SF COMMANDOS OLD PIC
> View attachment 40970
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS


First pic, are the men in khaki police or BSF?



Water Car Engineer said:


> You dont need to make it that complicated.
> 
> US border forces are usually using M4s, sometimes M16s sharing same magazines and ammo These guys have 4 completely different family of guns now with three different ammo. Three of which it doesnt make locally, makes NO sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what is up with the mix of camos too. I dont even understand the logistics sometimes. Like they're sourcing camo from 5 different vendors.


Weren't we supposed to be getting new camo for army?


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## Water Car Engineer

IndoUS said:


> Weren't we supposed to be getting new camo for army?




I dont know about about camo, but there is an RFI out for new boots, helmets, etc,etc, etc, etc. for the Indian army. When I find that link, I'll post. That's the first phase of F INSAS.

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## Roybot

IndoUS said:


> First pic, are the men in khaki police or BSF?



J&K police SOG.

Special Operations Group (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Water Car Engineer

*NSG*

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## Unknowncommando

Roybot said:


> J&K police SOG.
> 
> Special Operations Group (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


No BRO they are not SOG they wear darker khaki 








the guys wearing darker khaki are JK POLICE SOG

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Firstly 2000 Para are not deployed in Kashmir .They are less than 500 in number.
> 
> Secondly Abnesh Saxena was doing a joint operation with 27 RR Ghatak and 9 Para SF...where is it written that he is in SG?
> 
> Provide me a single source where it is written that Marcos and Garuds are part of SG.When they are not part of SFF how can they be in SG.
> 
> Stop cooking rumors snd giving undeserving credit to people...give it to those who deserve it more.
> 
> I respect everyone but some are more deserving for me and i mean no disrespect to anyone.



bro, read my post again, 
MARCO ABNESH KUMAR SAXENA retired from marcos a while ago. now he is working in reliance industry.
AADESH KUMAR is the one who get Shaurya Chakra for his action in kashmir.
i don't know about garuds, but marcos are selected in SG, personals for SG are selected from army special forces, marcos and SFF. i don't have a link to support this, that doesn't mean i am dreaming i have my own sources, just like you have in army.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 40968
> 
> IS THAT A SF OPERATOR WEARING JUNGLE MARPAT CAMO @Koovie @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> View attachment 40969
> 
> PARA SF COMMANDOS OLD PIC
> View attachment 40970
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS





RR QRT/Ghataks and JKP SOG.

guys,only SOG goes on special operations as they are trained to matchup with Ghataks.

And that digi print t shirt can be bought from shops in JK.



special said:


> bro, read my post again,
> MARCO ABNESH KUMAR SAXENA retired from marcos a while ago. now he is working in reliance industry.
> AADESH KUMAR is the one who get Shaurya Chakra for his action in kashmir.
> i don't know about garuds, but marcos are selected in SG, personals for SG are selected from army special forces, marcos and SFF. i don't have a link to support this, that doesn't mean i am dreaming i have my own sources, just like you have in army.



Sorry Sir, when a Colonel of the IA having served 5 of his 20 years in Kashmir tells me that SFF and SG are 100% Army I better trust him.

You give me a link and I will apologise and never ever again say this.

Till then I am not buying any of this.And I know you are making this up..if not kindly post more details about SG and I mean it 100%.


----------



## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sorry Sir, when a Colonel of the IA having served 5 of his 20 years in Kashmir tells me that SFF and SG are 100% Army I better trust him.
> 
> You give me a link and I will apologise and never ever again say this.
> 
> Till then I am not buying any of this.And I know you are making this up..if not kindly post more details about SG and I mean it 100%.



bro, i told you i get these information from my friend who is in marcos and i don't have any reason to distrust him. don't know there is anything in internet about SG to give as a credible source.


----------



## hkdas

marcos....





navy VBSS in russia during INDRA 2014

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> marcos....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navy VBSS in russia during INDRA 2014



Actually they are not VBSS (in that pic at least). They just man the LMGs and HMGs aboard the ship.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> bro, i told you i get these information from my friend who is in marcos and i don't have any reason to distrust him. don't know there is anything in internet about SG to give as a credible source.



Listen bro...with all due respect to you and your feelings for Marcos I highly doubt that Marcos or Garud will ever make it to SFF forget SG.

The reason being that SFF is a force for mountainous warfare and not amphibious beach assaults. 

Now, high altitude warfare is no childs play like many of you consider that a Marcos sitting in Vizag wil go and kick everyones *** in Leh or Batalik.

The Indian Army has specialised schools where students are trained for years...yes years not months to be specialists. 

AFAIK(and which is a pretty reliable source) the Marcos and Garuds are not regular at any of IA's high warfare school.

So how do you think that Marcos would be in SFF leave SG aside.

The IA top brass thinks of Marcos as assets around water bodies 'only' and "only".Marocs are not known for high altitude warfare...Srinagar(where Wular is located as many of you wont know) is not high altitude.

What my problem is that people have read 2-3 articles and have no technical knowledge and source for these kinds information but have big stories to share which is pretty amusing sometimes but gets irritating when the right people are nkt given credit.

Half of the SG's importance got over when NSG was made.SG wings were clipped when they were repearedly found to be offenders for covertly carrying out operations against PLA on their own without cooperation with Intel units.

SFF consists of Tibetians, Gorkhas and Paras.There is even a pic of Col Shekhawat which you might have seen.

What some fanboys are trying to do is that after watching Hollywood movies they are trying to show that India has a 3 service commando unit which is not the case.

What is laughable is that the unit which does such covert or black ops is not SG but CIT-J and CIT-X founded 2 decades ago and currently has a different name under RAW.They have ex Army SF and Police and Intel officers.

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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Actually they are not VBSS (in that pic at least). They just man the LMGs and HMGs aboard the ship.


why is that bro?? one of them have the VBSS patch...


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> why is that bro?? one of them have the VBSS patch...



I cant read that patch, resolution is way too low. 

VBSS members are just regular officers and sailors who are part of a boarding team. 

Those men in the pic were manning MG`s on board of a ship. So technically they are not VBBS (in that pic)


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## ni8mare

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1445856645681766

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## hkdas

Official Indian Navy Frogmen mascot

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> Official Indian Navy Frogmen mascot



Really? 

Dont believe everything thats on FB.

I am not an artist but that one is pretty dull


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Really?
> 
> Dont believe everything thats on FB.
> 
> I am not an artist but that one is pretty dull







37a-Frogmen.jpg (image)

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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> 37a-Frogmen.jpg (image)



Thanks... but looks like a character from a Cartoon Network show  Too cartoonish for me

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> *NSG*


Mock drill in Punjab last year IIRC.


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## hkdas

*Monday, August 13, 2007*
Wular Lake and its मगरमछ[/paste:font]



वुल्लर, Wular Lake, lying between Sopore and Bandipore, is the largest lake in India(some claim it to be the largest in Asia. However, I have my doubts. There just seem to be a lot of lakes staking claim to that title!!!). Surrounded by towering mountains, the lake measures 16kms long and 10kms wide. The size of the lake varies depending upon the season. Fed by the river Jhelum, it acts as a natural flood reservoir. The jade green water of the lake is not stagnant, but flows at a sleepy pace as the Jhelum enters the lake from Srinagar and flows out towards Pakistan.



This river link proved to be a convenient waterway for insurgents making a beeline to Srinagar. They would enter from the Pakistan side and merge with the populace in the villages dotting the banks of the lake, or sneak onward to Srinagar piggybacking on the Jhelum. As a result, the lake and the surrounding mountains became a hotbed for militant activity.

The presence of such a large lake warranted the need to bring in the Navy to help patrol the waters and curb the militant traffic. The call was answered by the Indian Navy's Marine Commandos, Marcos as they are better known. Also known as the Frogmen(no doubt because of their mascot) in the Indian Navy, these very, very, very young officers and sailors were tasked with the tough job of clearing out the lake and the surrounding mountains of terrorists.



The Frogmen have not only secured the lake, but also the villages on the banks of the lake. The lake, and the river are no longer used as a terrorist's waterway. In fact, they are so good at it, they have begun branching out into the mountains, patrolling and scouring for militant hideouts(out of sheer boredom I guess...the militants have a real tough time with these guys around). Their performance has warranted a much more sinister name(by the media...and I guess by the militants themselves). The Crocs of Wular Lake. They cannot be differentiated from the locals(I would say one or two looked like militants themselves!!!) if not for their uniforms. We had trouble recognizing them as Naval officers. We had to be told that they were officers of the same Navy thatour dads belong to.



Meenakshi and Ameeta aunty, giving the militants a run for their money? 

We Come Unseen, the very fitting motto of the Crocs of Wular Lake.



And did I mention that they are young? Very young??. So young that they were embarrassed when we referred to them as "uncle", or even "भैया "! It was humbling to know...to actually see these guys(of our age group by the way) to be putting their lives on the firing line, man their posts, guard the front and sleep on hard beds of rock and soil just so we can sleep easy on our comfortable beds(with air-conditioning, I might add). And when on patrol, they survive on a ration of three-bars-of-chocolate-a-day. I did know this...but it is a shocker when seen in the context of the threats they face every day.

Allow me ask you this...do you think you can eat three chocolates a day and guard this land against an almost invisible enemy in some of the most difficult terrain on the planet for a salary of Rs. 25,000?! I think not!! These guys are not in it for the money...there's something to these guys that sets them apart from the rest of us...



Did not intend to take you on a guilt-trip(hell, that's the last thing you want on a vacation)! It's just that...it was...is...very humbling to know this first hand. Makes you...want to think twice...about...you know...stuff(Wow...that is very clear!)



Unknown soldier, We salute Ye!

Kashmir-Ladakh



Koovie said:


> Thanks... but looks like a character from a Cartoon Network show  Too cartoonish for me


yes, you are right bro


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> navy VBSS in russia during INDRA 2014


Not VBSS. VBSS does just that- Visit, Board, Search, Seizure- the ones that man the MMGs and HMGs onboard IN warships are part of the ship's force protection security company who are NOT part of the VBSS team.



hkdas said:


> why is that bro?? one of them have the VBSS patch...


There is no "VBSS patch" VBSS and force protection members wear a patch saying "INDIAN NAVY" with an Anchor and nothing more.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> There is no "VBSS patch" VBSS and force protection members wear a patch saying "INDIAN NAVY" with an Anchor and nothing more.



bro, by "VBSS patch" i mean the patch wore by VBSS...


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> bro, by "VBSS patch" i mean the patch wore by VBSS...



Thats just the Indian Navy patch

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> bro, by "VBSS patch" i mean the patch wore by VBSS...


It is just an IN patch- not unique to the VBSS teams at all. You stated they were wearing the "VBSS patch" as proof they are VBSS- that is not the case.


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> Thats just the Indian Navy patch



but it is only for VBSS...



Abingdonboy said:


> It is just an IN patch- not unique to the VBSS teams at all. You stated they were wearing the "VBSS patch" as proof they are VBSS- that is not the case.


if i did, then sorry my mistake...


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> but it is only for VBSS...


This is not true- it is a general IN patch worn by security units and such- not VBSS alone.


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## hkdas

*OPERATION BLUE STAR: A SUCCESS OR A FAILURE*





Was Operation blue star as stated one of the successful operations of Indian Army, really successful? About 11000 armed troops from army, CRPF, BSF & Punjab police were tasked to engage merely a handful of Sikh extremist militants in a bloody battle leaving behind piles of corpses of militants, soldiers and civilians. It is quite tough to believe that about 5000 civilians were gunned down during this operation. But it is the grim reality.
First of all, let’s have a glimpse of the operation. Operation Blue Star was an anti-militancy operation carried out mainly by Army. It was started on 3 June, 1984 and lasted till 8TH by the order of then prime minister Indra Gandhi in order to establish control over the Harmandir Sahib Complex in Amritsar, Punjab and to remove Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and his armed followers from the complex buildings. Bhindranwale, the militant’s leader along with his followers had earlier taken residence in Harmandir Sahib and made it his headquarters. They were demanding a separate territory named ‘KHALISTAN” and was accused of the assassination ofNirankari Gurbachan Singh and the Punjab Police Deputy Inspector General A. S. Atwal. In this large scale operation infantry, artillery and armored regiments of army were deployed and pounders, APCS and tanks were used.
Now let’s jump into the real scenario of those days of the operation and feel the draconian situation prevailing out there. I'll explain it by giving the real battle situation day-vise.



#THE PLANNING
Prime Minister Indra Gandhi callsLt. Gen.S. K. Sinha, then Vice-Chief of Indian Army and asks him to prepare a position paper for assault on the Golden Temple.Lt. Gen. Sinha advises against any such move, because of its sacrilegious nature according to Sikh tradition. He suggests the government to adopt an alternative solution. Prime minister makes a controversial decision to replace him with General Arun Shridhar Vaidya as the Chief of the Indian army. General Vaidya assisted by Lt. Gen. K Sundarji as Vice-Chief, plans and coordinates Operation Blue Star. Now the operation has been planned and ready to be implicated.
#JUNE 1ST 1984
It is 1240 hrs and the army has given order to BSF and CRPF to engage the militants with small arms and machine guns. The Border Security Force and the Central Reserve Police Force has started firing at "Guru Ram Das Langar" building.
#JUNE 2ND 1984
The Indian army has sealed the international border from Kashmir to Ganganagar, Rajasthan. At least seven divisions of army are being deployed in villages of Punjab. It is almost 8pm and media and the press are being gagged by the army. Army has suspended the rail, road and air services in Punjab. Foreigner’s and NRI’s entry has been banned and the water and electricity supply has been cut off. Now there is a total blackout in the city.
#JUNE 3RD 1984
There is a complete curfew with the army and para-military patrolling the whole Punjab. The army has sealed off all routes of ingress and exit around the temple complex. In other words Punjab has been totally cut off from the other states and the rest of world.
#JUNE 4TH 1984
Suddenly a series of bombings are heard. The army is bombarding the historic Ramgarhia Bungas, the water tank, and other fortified positions.The army helicopters can be seen all over. The army is using Ordnance QF 25 pounder and is destroying the outer defenses laid by General Shabeg Singh. Now the army is placing tanks and APCs on the road separating the Guru Nanak niwas building.The artillery and small arms firing stops for a while, and Gurcharan Singh Tohra, former head of SGPC is sent to negotiate with Bhindranwale, however, he stood unsuccessful. The firing resumed again. By the end of the day Hundreds or thousands of Sikhs are known to be killed in the ferocious battle.
#5TH JUNE 1984
It is morning time and shelling has started on the building inside the Harmandir Sahib complex.A clear gunshot and grenade bursts can be heard. The 9th division has launched a frontal attack on the Akal Takht. Now it is1900 hrs and the BSF and CRPF has started attacking Hotel Temple View and Brahm Boota Akhara respectively on the southwest fringes of the complex. 3hrs have passed and both the structures are now under their control. The Army simultaneously has also attacked various other gurdwaras. Now the general has decided to launch a simultaneous attack from three sides. 10 Guards, 1 Para Commandos and Special Frontier Force (SFF) would attack from the main entrance of the complex, and 26 Madras and 9 Kumaon battalions from the hostel complex side entrance from the south. A havoc situation is being noticed- “As the troops entered the temple from the Northern entrance, they were gunned down by light machine-gun fire from both sides of the steps. The few commandos who did get down the steps were driven back by a barrage of fire from the building on the south side of the sacred pool, and thus they failed to reach the pavement around the Sacred Pool.” Many commandos from the best divisions of army have been gunned down.Three tanks and an APC are now entering the complex and suddenly a RPG hits an APC and immobilizes it. By 7:30am the tanks have got the clearance to fire their main guns (105 mm high explosive Squash Head shells).
#JUNE 6TH 1984 
A clear and loud shell burst is heard. Vijayanta tanks has shelled and destroyed the Akal Takhat! A group trying to escape has mowed down by machine gun fire. But still the resistance continues from the neighboring structures of the Akal Takhat.
#JUNE 7TH 1984
By the morning the army has gained stronghold over the Harmandir Sahib complex. Almost all the militants have been killed but the army is still positioned in the complex.
#JUNE 8TH 1984
Again some gunshots are being heard. Army has killed the remaining four militants holed up in the basement of the tower. Finally the operation has been completed. A galaxy of corpuses is lying in a pool of blood inside the complex. The whole building has been severely destructed. Bullet marks can be easily seen on the walls of dilapidated building. A chaos is all around the city. Some more people are also reported killed in the village area.



So this was the real condition during those days of the so called ‘successful operation’. According to some sources about 5000 civilians and more than 700 soldiers were killed. In the aftermath of the incident at least 4000 Sikh soldiers mutinied at different locations in India in protest, with some reports of large-scale pitched battles being fought to bring mutineers under control.The operation also led to the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi on 31 October 1984 by two of her Sikh bodyguards, triggering the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.
The operation was heavily criticized by media and human rights. The use of artillery in the congested inner city of Amritsar proved deadly to many civilian bystanders living near Harmandir Sahib. The media blackout throughout the Punjab resulted in widespread doubt regarding the official stories and aided the promotion of hearsay and rumors. S. K. Sinha, the GOC of the Indian Army who was sacked just before the attack, criticized the Government's claim that the attack represented a "last resort". He also stated that the operation would have been conducted in an entirely different manner if he had planned it.He also pointed out that a few days before the operation, the Home Minister had announced that the troops would not be sent to Harmandir Sahib but the operation seems to have been in plans much earlier. Also the timing of Operation Blue Star coincided with a Sikh religious day, the martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev, the founder of the Harmandir Sahib. Sikhs from all over the world visit the temple on this day. Many Sikhs view the timing and attack by the Indian Army as an attempt to inflict maximum casualties on Sikhs and demoralize them,and the government is in turn blamed for the inflated number of civilian dead for choosing to attack on this day.Before the attack by army a media blackout was imposed in Punjab.journalists were picked up from their hotels at 5 am in a military bus, taken to the adjoining border of the state of Haryana and "were abandoned there".A group of journalists who later tried to drive into Punjab were stopped at the road block at Punjab border and were threatened with shooting if they proceeded. The press criticized these actions by government as an "obvious attempt to attack the temple without the eyes of the foreign press on them". According to some sources several suspected Sikh militants had been shot with their hands tied. In an interview a doctor said that he was picked up by the army and forced to conduct postmortems despite the fact he had never done any postmortem examination before. Army was accused with the violation of human rights.In addition, Indira Gandhi has been accused of using the attack for political ends. Dr. Harjinder Singh Dilgeer stated that Indira Gandhi attacked the Harmandir Sahib complex to present herself as a great hero in order to win forthcoming elections.
But the question still remains that couldn’t this operation have started few days later? Or couldn't it be done in some other peaceful way? Now it is all up to you to decide whether the action or the decision taken by the ‘IRON LADY ‘was right or was a huge blunder!!
rohitrathore's Blog: OPERATION BLUE STAR: A SUCCESS OR A FAILURE

_PS:- why did indira gandhi reject SG?? they were ready for that operation, they even conduct rehearsal for that ops... iron lady lost her mind at that time?? _



Abingdonboy said:


> This is not true- it is a general IN patch worn by security units and such- not VBSS alone.


is it?? i thought it was only for VBSS.


----------



## Koovie

hkdas said:


> *OPERATION BLUE STAR: A SUCCESS OR A FAILURE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was Operation blue star as stated one of the successful operations of Indian Army, really successful? About 11000 armed troops from army, CRPF, BSF & Punjab police were tasked to engage merely a handful of Sikh extremist militants in a bloody battle leaving behind piles of corpses of militants, soldiers and civilians. It is quite tough to believe that about 5000 civilians were gunned down during this operation. But it is the grim reality.
> First of all, let’s have a glimpse of the operation. Operation Blue Star was an anti-militancy operation carried out mainly by Army. It was started on 3 June, 1984 and lasted till 8TH by the order of then prime minister Indra Gandhi in order to establish control over the Harmandir Sahib Complex in Amritsar, Punjab and to remove Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and his armed followers from the complex buildings. Bhindranwale, the militant’s leader along with his followers had earlier taken residence in Harmandir Sahib and made it his headquarters. They were demanding a separate territory named ‘KHALISTAN” and was accused of the assassination ofNirankari Gurbachan Singh and the Punjab Police Deputy Inspector General A. S. Atwal. In this large scale operation infantry, artillery and armored regiments of army were deployed and pounders, APCS and tanks were used.
> Now let’s jump into the real scenario of those days of the operation and feel the draconian situation prevailing out there. I'll explain it by giving the real battle situation day-vise.
> 
> 
> 
> #THE PLANNING
> Prime Minister Indra Gandhi callsLt. Gen.S. K. Sinha, then Vice-Chief of Indian Army and asks him to prepare a position paper for assault on the Golden Temple.Lt. Gen. Sinha advises against any such move, because of its sacrilegious nature according to Sikh tradition. He suggests the government to adopt an alternative solution. Prime minister makes a controversial decision to replace him with General Arun Shridhar Vaidya as the Chief of the Indian army. General Vaidya assisted by Lt. Gen. K Sundarji as Vice-Chief, plans and coordinates Operation Blue Star. Now the operation has been planned and ready to be implicated.
> #JUNE 1ST 1984
> It is 1240 hrs and the army has given order to BSF and CRPF to engage the militants with small arms and machine guns. The Border Security Force and the Central Reserve Police Force has started firing at "Guru Ram Das Langar" building.
> #JUNE 2ND 1984
> The Indian army has sealed the international border from Kashmir to Ganganagar, Rajasthan. At least seven divisions of army are being deployed in villages of Punjab. It is almost 8pm and media and the press are being gagged by the army. Army has suspended the rail, road and air services in Punjab. Foreigner’s and NRI’s entry has been banned and the water and electricity supply has been cut off. Now there is a total blackout in the city.
> #JUNE 3RD 1984
> There is a complete curfew with the army and para-military patrolling the whole Punjab. The army has sealed off all routes of ingress and exit around the temple complex. In other words Punjab has been totally cut off from the other states and the rest of world.
> #JUNE 4TH 1984
> Suddenly a series of bombings are heard. The army is bombarding the historic Ramgarhia Bungas, the water tank, and other fortified positions.The army helicopters can be seen all over. The army is using Ordnance QF 25 pounder and is destroying the outer defenses laid by General Shabeg Singh. Now the army is placing tanks and APCs on the road separating the Guru Nanak niwas building.The artillery and small arms firing stops for a while, and Gurcharan Singh Tohra, former head of SGPC is sent to negotiate with Bhindranwale, however, he stood unsuccessful. The firing resumed again. By the end of the day Hundreds or thousands of Sikhs are known to be killed in the ferocious battle.
> #5TH JUNE 1984
> It is morning time and shelling has started on the building inside the Harmandir Sahib complex.A clear gunshot and grenade bursts can be heard. The 9th division has launched a frontal attack on the Akal Takht. Now it is1900 hrs and the BSF and CRPF has started attacking Hotel Temple View and Brahm Boota Akhara respectively on the southwest fringes of the complex. 3hrs have passed and both the structures are now under their control. The Army simultaneously has also attacked various other gurdwaras. Now the general has decided to launch a simultaneous attack from three sides. 10 Guards, 1 Para Commandos and Special Frontier Force (SFF) would attack from the main entrance of the complex, and 26 Madras and 9 Kumaon battalions from the hostel complex side entrance from the south. A havoc situation is being noticed- “As the troops entered the temple from the Northern entrance, they were gunned down by light machine-gun fire from both sides of the steps. The few commandos who did get down the steps were driven back by a barrage of fire from the building on the south side of the sacred pool, and thus they failed to reach the pavement around the Sacred Pool.” Many commandos from the best divisions of army have been gunned down.Three tanks and an APC are now entering the complex and suddenly a RPG hits an APC and immobilizes it. By 7:30am the tanks have got the clearance to fire their main guns (105 mm high explosive Squash Head shells).
> #JUNE 6TH 1984
> A clear and loud shell burst is heard. Vijayanta tanks has shelled and destroyed the Akal Takhat! A group trying to escape has mowed down by machine gun fire. But still the resistance continues from the neighboring structures of the Akal Takhat.
> #JUNE 7TH 1984
> By the morning the army has gained stronghold over the Harmandir Sahib complex. Almost all the militants have been killed but the army is still positioned in the complex.
> #JUNE 8TH 1984
> Again some gunshots are being heard. Army has killed the remaining four militants holed up in the basement of the tower. Finally the operation has been completed. A galaxy of corpuses is lying in a pool of blood inside the complex. The whole building has been severely destructed. Bullet marks can be easily seen on the walls of dilapidated building. A chaos is all around the city. Some more people are also reported killed in the village area.
> 
> 
> 
> So this was the real condition during those days of the so called ‘successful operation’. According to some sources about 5000 civilians and more than 700 soldiers were killed. In the aftermath of the incident at least 4000 Sikh soldiers mutinied at different locations in India in protest, with some reports of large-scale pitched battles being fought to bring mutineers under control.The operation also led to the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi on 31 October 1984 by two of her Sikh bodyguards, triggering the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.
> The operation was heavily criticized by media and human rights. The use of artillery in the congested inner city of Amritsar proved deadly to many civilian bystanders living near Harmandir Sahib. The media blackout throughout the Punjab resulted in widespread doubt regarding the official stories and aided the promotion of hearsay and rumors. S. K. Sinha, the GOC of the Indian Army who was sacked just before the attack, criticized the Government's claim that the attack represented a "last resort". He also stated that the operation would have been conducted in an entirely different manner if he had planned it.He also pointed out that a few days before the operation, the Home Minister had announced that the troops would not be sent to Harmandir Sahib but the operation seems to have been in plans much earlier. Also the timing of Operation Blue Star coincided with a Sikh religious day, the martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev, the founder of the Harmandir Sahib. Sikhs from all over the world visit the temple on this day. Many Sikhs view the timing and attack by the Indian Army as an attempt to inflict maximum casualties on Sikhs and demoralize them,and the government is in turn blamed for the inflated number of civilian dead for choosing to attack on this day.Before the attack by army a media blackout was imposed in Punjab.journalists were picked up from their hotels at 5 am in a military bus, taken to the adjoining border of the state of Haryana and "were abandoned there".A group of journalists who later tried to drive into Punjab were stopped at the road block at Punjab border and were threatened with shooting if they proceeded. The press criticized these actions by government as an "obvious attempt to attack the temple without the eyes of the foreign press on them". According to some sources several suspected Sikh militants had been shot with their hands tied. In an interview a doctor said that he was picked up by the army and forced to conduct postmortems despite the fact he had never done any postmortem examination before. Army was accused with the violation of human rights.In addition, Indira Gandhi has been accused of using the attack for political ends. Dr. Harjinder Singh Dilgeer stated that Indira Gandhi attacked the Harmandir Sahib complex to present herself as a great hero in order to win forthcoming elections.
> But the question still remains that couldn’t this operation have started few days later? Or couldn't it be done in some other peaceful way? Now it is all up to you to decide whether the action or the decision taken by the ‘IRON LADY ‘was right or was a huge blunder!!
> rohitrathore's Blog: OPERATION BLUE STAR: A SUCCESS OR A FAILURE
> 
> 
> is it?? i thought it was only for VBSS.




5000 death? Thats a ridiculously inflated figure.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> is it?? i thought it was only for VBSS.


Nope, this is what I have been trying to say- there is no such thing as a "VBSS" patch.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Nope, this is what I have been trying to say- there is no such thing as a "VBSS" patch.


thanks bro..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

hkdas said:


> *OPERATION BLUE STAR: A SUCCESS OR A FAILURE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was Operation blue star as stated one of the successful operations of Indian Army, really successful? About 11000 armed troops from army, CRPF, BSF & Punjab police were tasked to engage merely a handful of Sikh extremist militants in a bloody battle leaving behind piles of corpses of militants, soldiers and civilians. It is quite tough to believe that about 5000 civilians were gunned down during this operation. But it is the grim reality.
> First of all, let’s have a glimpse of the operation. Operation Blue Star was an anti-militancy operation carried out mainly by Army. It was started on 3 June, 1984 and lasted till 8TH by the order of then prime minister Indra Gandhi in order to establish control over the Harmandir Sahib Complex in Amritsar, Punjab and to remove Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and his armed followers from the complex buildings. Bhindranwale, the militant’s leader along with his followers had earlier taken residence in Harmandir Sahib and made it his headquarters. They were demanding a separate territory named ‘KHALISTAN” and was accused of the assassination ofNirankari Gurbachan Singh and the Punjab Police Deputy Inspector General A. S. Atwal. In this large scale operation infantry, artillery and armored regiments of army were deployed and pounders, APCS and tanks were used.
> Now let’s jump into the real scenario of those days of the operation and feel the draconian situation prevailing out there. I'll explain it by giving the real battle situation day-vise.
> 
> 
> 
> #THE PLANNING
> Prime Minister Indra Gandhi callsLt. Gen.S. K. Sinha, then Vice-Chief of Indian Army and asks him to prepare a position paper for assault on the Golden Temple.Lt. Gen. Sinha advises against any such move, because of its sacrilegious nature according to Sikh tradition. He suggests the government to adopt an alternative solution. Prime minister makes a controversial decision to replace him with General Arun Shridhar Vaidya as the Chief of the Indian army. General Vaidya assisted by Lt. Gen. K Sundarji as Vice-Chief, plans and coordinates Operation Blue Star. Now the operation has been planned and ready to be implicated.
> #JUNE 1ST 1984
> It is 1240 hrs and the army has given order to BSF and CRPF to engage the militants with small arms and machine guns. The Border Security Force and the Central Reserve Police Force has started firing at "Guru Ram Das Langar" building.
> #JUNE 2ND 1984
> The Indian army has sealed the international border from Kashmir to Ganganagar, Rajasthan. At least seven divisions of army are being deployed in villages of Punjab. It is almost 8pm and media and the press are being gagged by the army. Army has suspended the rail, road and air services in Punjab. Foreigner’s and NRI’s entry has been banned and the water and electricity supply has been cut off. Now there is a total blackout in the city.
> #JUNE 3RD 1984
> There is a complete curfew with the army and para-military patrolling the whole Punjab. The army has sealed off all routes of ingress and exit around the temple complex. In other words Punjab has been totally cut off from the other states and the rest of world.
> #JUNE 4TH 1984
> Suddenly a series of bombings are heard. The army is bombarding the historic Ramgarhia Bungas, the water tank, and other fortified positions.The army helicopters can be seen all over. The army is using Ordnance QF 25 pounder and is destroying the outer defenses laid by General Shabeg Singh. Now the army is placing tanks and APCs on the road separating the Guru Nanak niwas building.The artillery and small arms firing stops for a while, and Gurcharan Singh Tohra, former head of SGPC is sent to negotiate with Bhindranwale, however, he stood unsuccessful. The firing resumed again. By the end of the day Hundreds or thousands of Sikhs are known to be killed in the ferocious battle.
> #5TH JUNE 1984
> It is morning time and shelling has started on the building inside the Harmandir Sahib complex.A clear gunshot and grenade bursts can be heard. The 9th division has launched a frontal attack on the Akal Takht. Now it is1900 hrs and the BSF and CRPF has started attacking Hotel Temple View and Brahm Boota Akhara respectively on the southwest fringes of the complex. 3hrs have passed and both the structures are now under their control. The Army simultaneously has also attacked various other gurdwaras. Now the general has decided to launch a simultaneous attack from three sides. 10 Guards, 1 Para Commandos and Special Frontier Force (SFF) would attack from the main entrance of the complex, and 26 Madras and 9 Kumaon battalions from the hostel complex side entrance from the south. A havoc situation is being noticed- “As the troops entered the temple from the Northern entrance, they were gunned down by light machine-gun fire from both sides of the steps. The few commandos who did get down the steps were driven back by a barrage of fire from the building on the south side of the sacred pool, and thus they failed to reach the pavement around the Sacred Pool.” Many commandos from the best divisions of army have been gunned down.Three tanks and an APC are now entering the complex and suddenly a RPG hits an APC and immobilizes it. By 7:30am the tanks have got the clearance to fire their main guns (105 mm high explosive Squash Head shells).
> #JUNE 6TH 1984
> A clear and loud shell burst is heard. Vijayanta tanks has shelled and destroyed the Akal Takhat! A group trying to escape has mowed down by machine gun fire. But still the resistance continues from the neighboring structures of the Akal Takhat.
> #JUNE 7TH 1984
> By the morning the army has gained stronghold over the Harmandir Sahib complex. Almost all the militants have been killed but the army is still positioned in the complex.
> #JUNE 8TH 1984
> Again some gunshots are being heard. Army has killed the remaining four militants holed up in the basement of the tower. Finally the operation has been completed. A galaxy of corpuses is lying in a pool of blood inside the complex. The whole building has been severely destructed. Bullet marks can be easily seen on the walls of dilapidated building. A chaos is all around the city. Some more people are also reported killed in the village area.
> 
> 
> 
> So this was the real condition during those days of the so called ‘successful operation’. According to some sources about 5000 civilians and more than 700 soldiers were killed. In the aftermath of the incident at least 4000 Sikh soldiers mutinied at different locations in India in protest, with some reports of large-scale pitched battles being fought to bring mutineers under control.The operation also led to the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi on 31 October 1984 by two of her Sikh bodyguards, triggering the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.
> The operation was heavily criticized by media and human rights. The use of artillery in the congested inner city of Amritsar proved deadly to many civilian bystanders living near Harmandir Sahib. The media blackout throughout the Punjab resulted in widespread doubt regarding the official stories and aided the promotion of hearsay and rumors. S. K. Sinha, the GOC of the Indian Army who was sacked just before the attack, criticized the Government's claim that the attack represented a "last resort". He also stated that the operation would have been conducted in an entirely different manner if he had planned it.He also pointed out that a few days before the operation, the Home Minister had announced that the troops would not be sent to Harmandir Sahib but the operation seems to have been in plans much earlier. Also the timing of Operation Blue Star coincided with a Sikh religious day, the martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev, the founder of the Harmandir Sahib. Sikhs from all over the world visit the temple on this day. Many Sikhs view the timing and attack by the Indian Army as an attempt to inflict maximum casualties on Sikhs and demoralize them,and the government is in turn blamed for the inflated number of civilian dead for choosing to attack on this day.Before the attack by army a media blackout was imposed in Punjab.journalists were picked up from their hotels at 5 am in a military bus, taken to the adjoining border of the state of Haryana and "were abandoned there".A group of journalists who later tried to drive into Punjab were stopped at the road block at Punjab border and were threatened with shooting if they proceeded. The press criticized these actions by government as an "obvious attempt to attack the temple without the eyes of the foreign press on them". According to some sources several suspected Sikh militants had been shot with their hands tied. In an interview a doctor said that he was picked up by the army and forced to conduct postmortems despite the fact he had never done any postmortem examination before. Army was accused with the violation of human rights.In addition, Indira Gandhi has been accused of using the attack for political ends. Dr. Harjinder Singh Dilgeer stated that Indira Gandhi attacked the Harmandir Sahib complex to present herself as a great hero in order to win forthcoming elections.
> But the question still remains that couldn’t this operation have started few days later? Or couldn't it be done in some other peaceful way? Now it is all up to you to decide whether the action or the decision taken by the ‘IRON LADY ‘was right or was a huge blunder!!
> rohitrathore's Blog: OPERATION BLUE STAR: A SUCCESS OR A FAILURE
> 
> _PS:- why did indira gandhi reject SG?? they were ready for that operation, they even conduct rehearsal for that ops... iron lady lost her mind at that time?? _
> 
> 
> is it?? i thought it was only for VBSS.



Why to take this up in first place ??? ... It was a grave mistake no matter which angle you look at at.

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## hkdas

Operation Muffet,Somali..UN deployment...
PO Ajay Thapa(SC) with fellow trooper.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF COMMANDOS




IAF GARUD

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## hkdas

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Why to take this up in first place ??? ... It was a grave mistake no matter which angle you look at at.



the operation was a needed one... no country can tolerate an insurgency especially armed insurgency. the only mistake is way the army and gov, done that operation. that operation can be done much much better that this.


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## Koovie

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Why to take this up in first place ??? ... It was a grave mistake no matter which angle you look at at.



It was an important event in the history of Indian SF though. It resulted in many changes in tactics and even the formation of our beloved Black Cats


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Koovie said:


> It was an important event in the history of Indian SF though. It resulted in many changes in tactics and even the formation of our beloved Black Cats



But it resulted in deep and permanent scars in the hearts of an entire community. Sending army in a place of worship was needless one. I am not saying that an operation was not required ... but it could have done anywhere else other than a place of worship. Or there could have been many smarter ways to handle that. We were not fighting foreigners but people of our own country ... who went against us JUST and i repeat JUST because of silly politics.

... And you don't have to kill innocent people to formulate tactics or raise a special ops group. You simply need some common sense.

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## Indischer

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> But it resulted in deep and permanent scars in the hearts of an entire community. Sending army in a place of worship was needless one. I am not saying that an operation was not required ... but it could have done anywhere else other than a place of worship. Or there could have been many smarter ways to handle that. We were not fighting foreigners but people of our country ... which went against us JUST and i repeat JUST because of silly politics.



I don't know how the army could have handled it any differently. Not their fault that Bhindranwale and Co decided to dig in, fortify and run ops from the Akal Takht. There was a significant risk of the army getting into an urban war, causing many more casualties, in case they decided to lay siege and wait for the militants to come out voluntarily.


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Indischer said:


> I don't know how the army could have handled it any differently. Not their fault that Bhindranwale and Co decided to dig in, fortify and run ops from the Akal Takht. There was a significant risk of the army getting into an urban war, causing many more casualties, in case they decided to lay siege and wait for the militants to come out voluntarily.



I believe there were few opportunities of negotiations which we missed. Army shouldn't have been called. If we can allow Hurriyat Confrence to spew venom for decades and still refrain from any action, what was stopping us to do the same with Bhindranwale. He was no one then and we just made him hero after the operation.


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## Abingdonboy

Had been a question of mine for a while- how does the SPG get the PM's cavalcade and 7 series around India and to foreign countries when needed?









Two bullet-proof vehicles arrive in Kathmandu for Modi

2 of the SPG's 7 Series Security transported by IAF cargo plane to Katmandu along with 1 Safari Jammer vehicle. All three vehicles will be stored in a sanitised area of the Indian Embassy in Katmandu under SPG watch. The rest of Modi's cavalcade will be made up of Nepali sourced vehicles.

I've heard the SPG also have their own railway carriages for transporting their vehicles within India. Not quite US Secret service level with the POTUS wherein they have 2 C-17s on call all the time and transport the ENTIRE POTUS cavalcade (limo, jammers, ambulance and SUVs for close protection) anywhere and everywhere the President travels but still pretty cool .


Maybe a few here will be interested by this, it had certainly been of interest to me for some time.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Had been a question of mine for a while- how does the SPG get the PM's cavalcade and 7 series around India and to foreign countries when needed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two bullet-proof vehicles arrive in Kathmandu for Modi
> 
> 2 of the SPG's 7 Series Security transported by IAF cargo plane to Katmandu along with 1 Safari Jammer vehicle. All three vehicles will be stored in a sanitised area of the Indian Embassy in Katmandu under SPG watch. The rest of Modi's cavalcade will be made up of Nepali sourced vehicles.
> 
> I've heard the SPG also have their own railway carriages for transporting their vehicles within India. Not quite US Secret service level with the POTUS wherein they have 2 C-17s on call all the time and transport the ENTIRE POTUS cavalcade (limo, jammers, ambulance and SUVs for close protection) anywhere and everywhere the President travels but still pretty cool .
> 
> 
> Maybe a few here will be interested by this, it had certainly been of interest to me for some time.



Ya they have railway carriages.The SPG instructor I met 2 years ago told me about this.

Talking about C17..a week before Kerry was gonna arrive in India a US AF C 17 was spotted by me in Delhi.

So US gives security to not only its presidents but other important personalities too.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Y
> So US gives security to not only its presidents but other important personalities too.


No doubt about that!

For the top levels of government the USAF has the 89th Airlift Wing (the VC-25A/Air Force One is part of this unit) operating not just the VC-25A/Air Force One:








But also the unit operates a number of C-32s (civilian 757s) for the Vice President (Air Force two), cabinet officials and top military leaders (the president also uses them on occasion):










For domestic use cabinet and government officials also have the use of the C-40 (military version of the 737 BBJ):









For foreign use, particularly for use by the Secretary of State the USAF has the 1st Airlift Squadron for SAM FOX (Special Air Mission: Foreign ) as they call it. This SQD has both the C-32 and C-40 (757 and 737 military versions).


Additionally the Secretary of State has a dedicated security force within the State service- the DSS (Diplomatic Security Service) akin the the US Secret Service in training and equipment that protects the Secretary of State along with foreign diplomats on US soil and US diplomats and staff on foreign soil. 


The US has a very impressive infrastructure around its top people indeed.

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## hkdas

marcos...


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> No doubt about that!
> 
> For the top levels of government the USAF has the 89th Airlift Wing (the VC-25A/Air Force One is part of this unit) operating not just the VC-25A/Air Force One:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But also the unit operates a number of C-32s (civilian 757s) for the Vice President (Air Force two), cabinet officials and top military leaders (the president also uses them on occasion):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For domestic use cabinet and government officials also have the use of the C-40 (military version of the 737 BBJ):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For foreign use, particularly for use by the Secretary of State the USAF has the 1st Airlift Squadron for SAM FOX (Special Air Mission: Foreign ) as they call it. This SQD has both the C-32 and C-40 (757 and 737 military versions).
> 
> 
> Additionally the Secretary of State has a dedicated security force within the State service- the DSS (Diplomatic Security Service) akin the the US Secret Service in training and equipment that protects the Secretary of State along with foreign diplomats on US soil and US diplomats and staff on foreign soil.
> 
> 
> The US has a very impressive infrastructure around its top people indeed.

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## hkdas

para commandos....

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## hkdas

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR*,* para commandos during their training they have Weekly forced marches with 65 kg combat loads with distances over 50 to 80 miles. how much times they have to do these forces marches during their entire training period??


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR*,* para commandos during their training they have Weekly forced marches with 65 kg combat loads with distances *over 50 to 80 miles.* how much times they have to do these forces marches during their entire training period??




Source?

I am pretty sure that it was up to 80 km and not 80 miles which would be over 125 km.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR*,* para commandos during their training they have Weekly forced marches with 65 kg combat loads with distances over 50 to 80 miles. how much times they have to do these forces marches during their entire training period??


I dont know anyone in SF but my friend in Ghatak used to do 20 kms with 22kg load in 1 hr 50 mins.So 60-80kms road march would be anywhere from 8-11 hrs


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

His pic from recent deployment.He is the one with the bandana.

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## Bang Galore

Indischer said:


> I don't know how the army could have handled it any differently. Not their fault that Bhindranwale and Co decided to dig in, fortify and run ops from the Akal Takht. There was a significant risk of the army getting into an urban war, causing many more casualties, in case they decided to lay siege and wait for the militants to come out voluntarily.



They did handle it differently a couple of years later during black thunder but hindsight is always 20/20.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> His pic from recent deployment.He is the one with the bandana.


Any more pics bro?



hkdas said:


> para commandos....


Cool pic, I always wondered what the PARA (SF) used their black uniforms for in the real world.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Any more pics bro?
> 
> 
> Cool pic, I always wondered what the PARA (SF) used their black uniforms for in the real world.



Will be uploading more if I get them.

Black dress is for special missions mostly.

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## The A-5

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Will be uploading more if I get them.
> 
> Black dress is for special missions mostly.



The elbow pads look new...maybe I didn't notice their shape before due to camouflage...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The A-5 said:


> The elbow pads look new...maybe I didn't notice their shape before due to camouflage...


Elbow pads and knee pads are bought and not issued.So it is the personal choice or whats available around.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Elbow pads and knee pads are bought and not issued.So it is the personal choice or whats available around.


For SOFs it is certainly issues bro, most pics of Indian SOFs recently will show them wearing such.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> For SOFs it is certainly issues bro, most pics of Indian SOFs recently will show them wearing such.



I dont think so..every operator buys it.

from the hat till the boots everything is bought.even the fancy shoes you see is bought..IA issues WW2 era boots.


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## The A-5

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont think so..every operator buys it.
> 
> from the hat till the boots everything is bought.even the fancy shoes you see is bought..IA issues WW2 era boots.



Bought with personal money?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont think so..every operator buys it.
> 
> from the hat till the boots everything is bought.even the fancy shoes you see is bought..IA issues WW2 era boots.


SOF is very different bro, that's like saying the Tavors are bought by the individual operators. Naturally SOFs get significantly better equipment than the general grunts.


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## hkdas



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> SOF is very different bro, that's like saying the Tavors are bought by the individual operators. Naturally SOFs get significantly better equipment than the general grunts.



Tavor and NVGs are different thing..shoes, gloves and hats belong in the personal kit.You may ask any of your source.



The A-5 said:


> Bought with personal money?



Yes.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tavor and NVGs are different thing..shoes, gloves and hats belong in the personal kit.You may ask any of your source.
> .


Actually this isn't the case for SOFs, for these things like gloves, boots, hats, camo cloth etc are things bought from the individual SF Btn's discretionary budget which is significantly larger for the SFs (I have been told this by a former PARA- not SF- man) things like webbing/vests, elbow/knee pads, helmets and weapons are all purchased in bulk by the SF HQ and dispensed to the individual units. If Ghataks,RR or regulars want to buy this kind of non-standard issue equipment like superior boots, gloves and jungle caps then they will have to buy it for themselves however.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Guys, Discovery channel is gonna telecast some sort of documentary on the LOC which has Para SF footage on 15th August at 9pm..dont forget to watch.

The pic of Para SF in black dress posted here recently belongs to that documentary.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Guys, Discovery channel is gonna telecast some sort of documentary on the LOC which has Para SF footage on 15th August at 9pm..dont forget to watch.
> 
> The pic of Para SF in black dress posted here recently belongs to that documentary.


Revealed: The Line of Control | Discovery Channel India
bro, are u sure about para SF in that documentary??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> Revealed: The Line of Control | Discovery Channel India
> bro, are u sure about para SF in that documentary??



I saw the footage of the pics you posted on the advertisement for the show.


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## Abingdonboy

PM Modi in Nepal (2 BMW 7 series and Tata Safari Jammer all belong to SPG):











(you can see the security haven't planned for Modi to go for a walk and wave and Modi is dictating this, It starts out orderly but towards the end it is a complete mess and no way would the SPG be comfortable with this, nice PR but he needs to be careful, he shouldn't be so callus with his security)


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> PM Modi in Nepal (2 BMW 7 series and Tata Safari Jammer all belong to SPG):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (you can see the security haven't planned for Modi to go for a walk and wave and Modi is dictating this, It starts out orderly but towards the end it is a complete mess and no way would the SPG be comfortable with this, nice PR but he needs to be careful, he shouldn't be so callus with his security)




I saw a female BG is it SPG or Nepalese?


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## Abingdonboy

Some more:









COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I saw a female BG is it SPG or Nepalese?


What part bro?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

News clips from nepalese channel.


Looking at the crowd I can say that Modi would have even won in Kathmandu

@Abingdonboy

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> News clips from nepalese channel.
> 
> 
> Looking at the crowd I can say that Modi would have even won in Kathmandu
> 
> @Abingdonboy



Was she dressed in a black suit or what?


Last few:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy 







Check out the video here

Modi visits Pashupatinath temple (with photos and videos)


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## Abingdonboy

SPG Counter Assault Team:


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> News clips from nepalese channel.
> 
> 
> Looking at the crowd I can say that Modi would have even won in Kathmandu
> 
> @Abingdonboy





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the video here
> 
> Modi visits Pashupatinath temple (with photos and videos)


I'd say she was SPG looking at her outfit and such. Women have been seen in the SPG in the past so it's not that surprising to see one here.


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## Abingdonboy

More:






Really quite silly- look at those crowds, it only takes one idiot. The Nepali security really failed to keep the crowds off the road but then Modi made the job of his security unnecessarily awkward there also.


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## nik22

Abingdonboy said:


> Was she dressed in a black suit or what?
> 
> 
> Last few:


looks like there were always helicopter in air


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## DesiGuy

@ *Abingdonboy*

I see modi in bmw...can tata or any other indian company develop car for PM?


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## nik22

DesiGuy said:


> @ *Abingdonboy*
> 
> I see modi in bmw...can tata or any other indian company develop car for PM?


What other Indian company? - Mahindra? He was using Scorpio before becoming PM. No Indian company make vehicles of such class and I don't think they would make one or few just for Mr. Prime Minister. Security of PM can not be compromised. He needs to get best.

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## hkdas

Govt doubles NSG commando strength in each of four hubs

New Delhi: The NSG crack commando strength has been almost doubled to 460 personnel each stationed at select hubs in Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata and Hyderabad to undertake quick and swift counter-terror or counter-hijack operations.





New Delhi:* The NSG crack commando strength has been almost doubled to 460 personnel each stationed at select hubs in Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata and Hyderabad to undertake quick and swift counter-terror or counter-hijack operations. *

The hubs in these cities, covering key areas, were set up in the aftermath of the November 2008 Mumbai terror attacks during which the elite force came under criticism for slow response time. 

"It has been decided to reinforce the strength of each of the four regional hubs from 241 to 460 personnel with immediate effect," the Union Home Ministry said in its annual report for 2013-14 tabled in Parliament yesterday.

All the four hubs were made operational in 2009 by the Home Ministry after residential and training infrastructure was developed in these hubs for commandos and other administrative staff of the National Security Guard (NSG), a federal contingency force that was raised in 1984 to undertake special missions against terrorists and hijackers. 

Specially trained commandos of the NSG counter-terror taskforce have been since stationed at these locations and they are armed with sophisticated weapons, communication gadgetry and other logistics to launch themselves in an combat scenario at a short notice.

*Hyderabad and Chennai hubs have also been upgraded to the level of regional centres with 600 acres and 34.31 acres of land allotted to NSG in these cities respectively*. 

The force is also mulling to finalise a land for its fifth hub that could come up in Gujarat near Ahmedabad.

Defence News - Govt doubles NSG commando strength in each of four hubs

_increasing the number will affect the quality of the force... looks like no one is interested in quality _


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## Mr.S.Singh

Abingdonboy said:


> More:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really quite silly- look at those crowds, it only takes one idiot. The Nepali security really failed to keep the crowds off the road but then Modi made the job of his security unnecessarily awkward there also.


sometimes security have to be compromised to reach out to individuals
Plus they carry sensors which can detect gun powder so i guess it is safe enough


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> Govt doubles NSG commando strength in each of four hubs
> 
> New Delhi: The NSG crack commando strength has been almost doubled to 460 personnel each stationed at select hubs in Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata and Hyderabad to undertake quick and swift counter-terror or counter-hijack operations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Delhi:* The NSG crack commando strength has been almost doubled to 460 personnel each stationed at select hubs in Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata and Hyderabad to undertake quick and swift counter-terror or counter-hijack operations. *
> 
> The hubs in these cities, covering key areas, were set up in the aftermath of the November 2008 Mumbai terror attacks during which the elite force came under criticism for slow response time.
> 
> "It has been decided to reinforce the strength of each of the four regional hubs from 241 to 460 personnel with immediate effect," the Union Home Ministry said in its annual report for 2013-14 tabled in Parliament yesterday.
> 
> All the four hubs were made operational in 2009 by the Home Ministry after residential and training infrastructure was developed in these hubs for commandos and other administrative staff of the National Security Guard (NSG), a federal contingency force that was raised in 1984 to undertake special missions against terrorists and hijackers.
> 
> Specially trained commandos of the NSG counter-terror taskforce have been since stationed at these locations and they are armed with sophisticated weapons, communication gadgetry and other logistics to launch themselves in an combat scenario at a short notice.
> 
> *Hyderabad and Chennai hubs have also been upgraded to the level of regional centres with 600 acres and 34.31 acres of land allotted to NSG in these cities respectively*.
> 
> The force is also mulling to finalise a land for its fifth hub that could come up in Gujarat near Ahmedabad.
> 
> Defence News - Govt doubles NSG commando strength in each of four hubs
> 
> _increasing the number will affect the quality of the force... looks like no one is interested in quality _




Exactly...people are fcking up the meaning of a SF.

Anyways I am not much of a fan of the structure and recruitment of NSG.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> _increasing the number will affect the quality of the force... looks like no one is interested in quality _


I don't agree that increasing the number of operators will necessarily affect the quality of the training as long as the NSG also increases its capacity to train operators and allocates/receives more budget per operator- which it is succeeding on both accounts-With the regional centres in Hydrabad and Chennai being "mini-Mansears" in a sense, able to impart all relevant refresher training on operators once they have passed out of Mansear and are deployed regionally in the Hubs so there is no extra burden on the NSG's central/main training centre- additionally the SRG is actively being reduced so more budget is being freed up for the SAG operators.

The US SOFs have been expanded many times in the past 13 years and if anything they are better trained today than ever before.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I saw the footage of the pics you posted on the advertisement for the show.


this one??
Video | Discovery Channel India


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## Abingdonboy

Mr.S.Singh said:


> sometimes security have to be compromised to reach out to individuals


Baloney, there is a way for the PM to interact with the people that is safe but this way is NOT it.



Mr.S.Singh said:


> Plus they carry sensors which can detect gun powder so i guess it is safe enough


Unsure about that and anyway that would only be useful (if it existed) once a gun had been discharged. And anyway, how would such a sensor prevent a suicide bomber?

Look at that crowd, I doubt they had all been cleared ahead of time (as would happen in India), any one of them could be a potential risk and by stopping Modi exposed himself to that threat and the Nepali security were unable to maintain an effective cordon around either Modi or the cavalcade meaning people were within touching distance of both him and the vehicles in the convoy (another massive no-no).


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't agree that increasing the number of operators will necessarily affect the quality of the training as long as the NSG also increases its capacity to train operators and allocates/receives more budget per operator- which it is succeeding on both accounts-With the regional centres in Hydrabad and Chennai being "mini-Mansears" in a sense, able to impart all relevant refresher training on operators once they have passed out of Mansear and are deployed regionally in the Hubs so there is no extra burden on the NSG's central/main training centre- additionally the SRG is actively being reduced so more budget is being freed up for the SAG operators.
> 
> The US SOFs have been expanded many times in the past 13 years and if anything they are better trained today than ever before.



they are taking about increasing number not the budget of the force. increasing number of hubs are good, but increasing number of commandos are not. in all probability there is no need for 460 personnel in one hub. in case of an emergency like 26/11, the size of NSG deployed will be less than 150. The number of active duty FBI HRT is less that 90(the US counterpart of NSG) and the country like US were more crimes are occurring has only this small no of personals, NSG is increasing the number like they are creating an infantry unit. total number of NSG is ~10,000. while FBI HRT is >90... what NSG need is a better mobility, not number. as we all know that the NSG is facing deficit of choppers. there is no decision for allotting additional helicopters for NSG.
the budget for HRT is many times bigger than that of NSG,

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## Sergi

@coldheartedaviator @Abingdonboy @hkdas

I need some confirmation opinion

Every year SF of tri series held a competition in Mumbai and best of the best are selected for unspecified job. 
What you say !!!! Rumour or truth ????


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## Mr.S.Singh

Abingdonboy said:


> Unsure about that and anyway that would only be useful (if it existed) once a gun had been discharged. And anyway, how would such a sensor prevent a suicide bomber?
> 
> Look at that crowd, I doubt they had all been cleared ahead of time (as would happen in India), any one of them could be a potential risk and by stopping Modi exposed himself to that threat and the Nepali security were unable to maintain an effective cordon around either Modi or the cavalcade meaning people were within touching distance of both him and the vehicles in the convoy (another massive no-no).


Hidden Government Scanners Will Instantly Know Everything About You From 164 Feet Away
New device uses sniffer bees to detect explosives | Homeland Security News Wire

i am sure the PM gets these snazzy gizmos in the safari and van following him


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## hkdas

Sergi said:


> @coldheartedaviator @Abingdonboy @hkdas
> 
> I need some confirmation opinion
> 
> Every year SF of tri series held a competition in Mumbai and best of the best are selected for unspecified job.
> What you say !!!! Rumour or truth ????



i think it is Rumour, never heard of anything like that.

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## Abingdonboy

DesiGuy said:


> @ *Abingdonboy*
> 
> I see modi in bmw...can tata or any other indian company develop car for PM?


As a one off? Probably, but would such a project (for at most 12 cars) be economically viable? Doubtful. 

There was a lot of talk on this very subject once Modi had been elected as PM but not sworn in, Mahindra had publicly stated they would like Modi to continue using the Scorpio as his official vehicle once PM, thankfully the SPG have the last word on all security matters concerning the PM and rubbished this absurd idea. 

The BMW 760Li Security used by the SPG for PM travel is perhaps the finest and most secure head of state vehicle available after the "beast" of POTUS (even that has some major drawbacks), with BMW having decades of expertise in this field it would take a lot for any Indian manufacturer to come up with a superior product (it would have to be superior to justify switching over, right? No point in downgrading the PM's security just for some misplaced pride). Tata is probably the best candidate given they have JLR under their umbrella, but even then they would have to invest a lot of R&D . The fact of the matter is that Tata and Mahindra are both cost-effective/budget manufacturers the world leaders of the Head of State security vehicle/VVIP armouring market are all high-end luxury brands (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lincoln) and mostly German. Not everyone has comparable products and the world standard are a select few models from the above. Until Tata and Mahindra are producing products comparable with the Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7 Series, it is not even worth contemplating this. 

All in all, save the tax payers some money (it would be needlessly wasteful to replace these brand new 7 series with an Indian product now) and be happy with what is there- it does the job excellently.

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## Mr.S.Singh

Abingdonboy said:


> As a one off? Probably, but would such a project (for at most 12 cars) be economically viable? Doubtful.
> 
> There was a lot of talk on this very subject once Modi had been elected as PM but not sworn in, Mahindra had publicly stated they would like Modi to continue using the Scorpio as his official vehicle once PM, thankfully the SPG have the last word on all security matters concerning the PM and rubbished this absurd idea.
> 
> The BMW 760Li Security used by the SPG for PM travel is perhaps the finest and most secure head of state vehicle available after the "beast" of POTUS (even that has some major drawbacks), with BMW having decades of expertise in this field it would take a lot for any Indian manufacturer to come up with a superior product (it would have to be superior to justify switching over, right? No point in downgrading the PM's security just for some misplaced pride). Tata is probably the best candidate given they have JLR under their umbrella, but even then they would have to invest a lot of R&D . The fact of the matter is that Tata and Mahindra are both cost-effective/budget manufacturers the world leaders of the Head of State security vehicle/VVIP armouring market are all high-end luxury brands (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lincoln) and mostly German. Not everyone has comparable products and the world standard are a select few models from the above. Until Tata and Mahindra are producing products comparable with the Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7 Series, it is not even worth contemplating this.
> 
> All in all, save the tax payers some money (it would be needlessly wasteful to replace these brand new 7 series with an Indian product now) and be happy with what is there- it does the job excellently.


Ahem Ahem, we could go the Jag route 
They make fine cars for heads of states too, partly Indian :p


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## Sergi

hkdas said:


> i think it is Rumour, never heard of anything like that.


I can tell you one thing for sure its not Rumour - the competition .
It take place in INS Shivaji. Every-year. If not for the caps I would have never known it was paras
I wana check if anybody-else knew about it.


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## hkdas

Discovery Channel India player


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> they are taking about increasing number not the budget of the force. increasing number of hubs are good, but increasing number of commandos are not. in all probability there is no need for 460 personnel in one hub. in case of an emergency like 26/11, the size of NSG deployed will be less than 150. The number of active duty FBI HRT is less that 90(the US counterpart of NSG) and the country like US were more crimes are occurring has only this small no of personals, NSG is increasing the number like they are creating an infantry unit. total number of NSG is ~10,000. while FBI HRT is >90... what NSG need is a better mobility, not number. as we all know that the NSG is facing deficit of choppers. there is no decision for allotting additional helicopters for NSG.
> the budget for HRT is many times bigger than that of NSG,


Read the new bro- nowhere does it say that the NSG is going to expand its current force and recruit more men to increase the numbers in each hub. More likely it will just better distribute its operators throughout the country instead of having the bulk in Mansear. 

Also your figure of 10,000 NSG is including the SRG (by far larger than the SAG) who are not involved in CT roles at all but for VVIP protection but this figure is now inaccurate (NSG is actively reducing the size of the SRG). The size of the SAG (the actual "shooters"/CT specialist 100% drawn from the IA) has and will not change from around 2,000 operators.


The FBI HRT comparison is fair HOWEVER, it should also be noted that the FBI has its own SWAT teams based in all its field offices spread around the US AND that every state and city/town in the US has VERY well equipped special response units so the availability of well armed and well trained CT specialists in any corner of the US is FAR higher than across India where,yes, local and state police forces are improving their respective special response units but India has nothing like the FBI SWAT teams spread out across its country.

I agree with you that quality cannot be compromised for quality but I honestly don't believe this will happen in the NSG, in fact the reverse will. 

Also I am in full agreement that the NSG needs to have its mobility significantly boosted, to date it has to rely on the IAF to loan helos to them as well as a/c (along with the NSG now having the power to commandeer any a/c in Indian airspace in an emergency). Ideally the NSG would have its own fixed and rotary wing a/c (the latter deployed at every hub and the former at the nearest airport to each hub).



Mr.S.Singh said:


> Ahem Ahem, we could go the Jag route
> They make fine cars for heads of states too, partly Indian :p


I knew this would come up. Jags are not really an option, to get a Jag up to the same spec as a 760Li Security you would be paying 3-4 times the cost of a BMW as Jaguar are not as involved in up-armouring their products as the Germans are so all XJR VVIP versions are bespoke and arguably not as effective their German counterparts. 

So not only wasteful from a taxpayer's point of view then, how many would see a Jag as an Indian car? Not many really. Tata could work with their people at JLR to come up with a one-off Tata sedan for the PM but it wouldn't be economically viable unless Tata were able to pass on some/all of the R&D costs of such a vehicle onto the SPG which would again be a massive waste of taxpayer rupees.


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## Mr.S.Singh

Abingdonboy said:


> I knew this would come up. Jags are not really an option, to get a Jag up to the same spec as a 760Li Security you would be paying 3-4 times the cost of a BMW as Jaguar are not as involved in up-armouring their products as the Germans are so all XJR VVIP versions are bespoke and arguably not as effective their German counterparts.
> 
> So not only wasteful from a taxpayer's point of view then, how many would see a Jag as an Indian car? Not many really. Tata could work with their people at JLR to come up with a one-off Tata sedan for the PM but it wouldn't be economically viable unless Tata were able to pass on some/all of the R&D costs of such a vehicle onto the SPG which would again be a massive waste of taxpayer rupees.














and this is standard vehicle offered to VIP's not for heads of state
Jaguar armored division makes one hell of a vehicle, nimble, strong and fast


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## Abingdonboy

Mr.S.Singh said:


> View attachment 42589
> 
> 
> and this is standard vehicle offered to VIP's not for heads of state
> Jaguar armored division makes one hell of a vehicle, nimble, strong and fast


For a comparably spec'd Jag (as the PM's 7 series) you would be looking at more than $340,000 USD EACH, the PM's current 760Li of the SPG costs around $230,000-250,000. Is that extra $100,000 or so worth it for a Jag that is widely seen as a British brand and NOT Indian? 

The BMW 760Li Security currently used is likely superior to the Jaguar products and comes in cheaper.


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## Mr.S.Singh

Abingdonboy said:


> For a comparably spec'd Jag (as the PM's 7 series) you would be looking at more than $340,000 USD EACH, the PM's current 760Li of the SPG costs around $230,000-250,000. Is that extra $100,000 or so worth it for a Jag that is widely seen as a British brand and NOT Indian?
> 
> The BMW 760Li Security currently used is likely superior to the Jaguar products and comes in cheaper.


Its over $600,000 for BMW 760Li, jags are more of an tailor made kit. Jags Still turn out to be cheaper for standard model
It depends how protection you load the jag with


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## Abingdonboy

Mr.S.Singh said:


> Its over $600,000 for BMW 760Li


Source?

Anyway even IF (doubtful IMHO) that is the case. The SPG has already sunk funds and opted for the 760Li over any other product (they are experts with very deep pockets, they had the options to buy whatever they liked and they bought the BMW- says a lot about how highly they rate it) so it makes no sense to get rid of the dozen or so BRAND NEW (yes less than 4 months old) 760Li for some Jags who would be made in the UK anyway. It would be a waste of money to get rid of the BMWs now or for another 2-3 years. What tangible benefit do the Jags bring over the 760Li? How many world leaders over than the UK PM (for obvious PR reasons) use the Jags as their official vehicles? How many use German cars (most btw)?



Mr.S.Singh said:


> jags are more of an tailor made kit.


BMW offer customisation too, the Indian PM's fleet of 760Li feature dedicated satellite communications and other undisclosed upgrades on the basic Security package. The Indian PM 760Li Security is probably the most well equipped and advanced 760Li Security anywhere in the world.



Sergi said:


> @coldheartedaviator @Abingdonboy @hkdas
> 
> I need some confirmation opinion
> 
> Every year SF of tri series held a competition in Mumbai and best of the best are selected for unspecified job.
> What you say !!!! Rumour or truth ????



Never heard anything remotely on this! Any more details bro? Very intriguing indeed...




Sergi said:


> I can tell you one thing for sure its not Rumour - the competition .
> It take place in INS Shivaji. Every-year. *If not for the caps I would have never known it was paras*
> I wana check if anybody-else knew about it.



You've seen pics of such?


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## Abingdonboy

Interesting SFs would feature in a documentary about the LoC- should show just what a vital role these guys in guarding the LoC, maybe given another insight into their heli-borne rapid interventions to thwart infiltration attempts.



@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> this one??
> Video | Discovery Channel India



I cant watch it.



hkdas said:


> they are taking about increasing number not the budget of the force. increasing number of hubs are good, but increasing number of commandos are not. in all probability there is no need for 460 personnel in one hub. in case of an emergency like 26/11, the size of NSG deployed will be less than 150. The number of active duty FBI HRT is less that 90(the US counterpart of NSG) and the country like US were more crimes are occurring has only this small no of personals, NSG is increasing the number like they are creating an infantry unit. total number of NSG is ~10,000. while FBI HRT is >90... what NSG need is a better mobility, not number. as we all know that the NSG is facing deficit of choppers. there is no decision for allotting additional helicopters for NSG.
> the budget for HRT is many times bigger than that of NSG,



Exactly..The US budget is 700 billion while our is 40 even when our forces are more.Plus the US SF operators are less or close to our figures when they are active in over 100 countires while ours are just active internally.

These guys have no idea how to manage and structure a special force.For them SF is like a super infantry based on the tactis of human wave...bloody idiots need to learn from others.What will 460 men deployed in Hyderabad do when most of these 460 will be from Para SF which are already overstretched.

Instead of multiplying their nunber why not concentrate on providiing better equipment and skill.

The average Western SF operator is still 10 times more better equipped than ours.

At the end of the day 100 well equipped and trainned operators are better than 460 under equipped.

And with force like NSG it is easier to guess than numbers dont matter.



Abingdonboy said:


> Interesting SFs would feature in a documentary about the LoC- should show just what a vital role these guys in guarding the LoC, maybe given another insight into their heli-borne rapid interventions to thwart infiltration attempts.
> 
> 
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR




Cant wait till 15th.


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## Mr.S.Singh

Abingdonboy said:


> Source?



http://alpa-gatt.com/ALPa_GATTPage/VermietungVerkauf/F03Optimiert.pdf 2012 pricing its 403,436 Euro's



Abingdonboy said:


> Anyway even IF (doubtful IMHO) that is the case. The SPG has already sunk funds and opted for the 760Li over any other product (they are experts with very deep pockets, they had the options to buy whatever they liked and they bought the BMW- says a lot about how highly they rate it) so it makes no sense to get rid of the dozen or so BRAND NEW (yes less than 4 months old) 760Li for some Jags who would be made in the UK anyway. It would be a waste of money to get rid of the BMWs now or for another 2-3 years. What tangible benefit do the Jags bring over the 760Li? How many world leaders over than the UK PM (for obvious PR reasons) use the Jags as their official vehicles? How many use German cars (most btw)?



Well its a tradition, In 2003 PM atal bhiari first bought the BMW for himself and Mercedes S600 is operated by the President
i could say S600 Pullman operated by the president is more secure than 760Li

India bought this car in 2009 when there was no XJ sentinel, hence the jag was out of consideration
760Li would be replaced in a couple of years, looking at Jag shouldnt be a problem


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sergi said:


> @coldheartedaviator @Abingdonboy @hkdas
> 
> I need some confirmation opinion
> 
> Every year SF of tri series held a competition in Mumbai and best of the best are selected for unspecified job.
> What you say !!!! Rumour or truth ????



Rumour.

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## Abingdonboy

Mr.S.Singh said:


> i could say S600 Pullman operated by the president is more secure than 760Li


How so? And anyway I am against limos for head of state transport- they are too large and difficult to manoeuvre (especially in a contact), the 760Li with its combination of raw power (V12 540 hp) and short wheel base (compared to a limo) is ideal- offering both luxury and comfort to the PM but if the brown stuff hits the fan the driver can quite easily flee the scene. 



Mr.S.Singh said:


> India bought this car in 2009 when there was no XJ sentinel, hence the jag was out of consideration


Not true, the 760Lis that the SPG is using for the PM right now are all 2014 purchases and are the newer face-ltifted F02, the F01s were bought in 2009 but haven't been seen for a while, SPG must be doing other things with them. As such at the tme of this latest purchase (2013 most likely) the XJ Sentinal was very much around but the SPG went of the BMW- got to be a reason behind that. 



Mr.S.Singh said:


> looking at Jag shouldnt be a problem


Why are you so behind the Jag? Tell me what other world leader uses a Jag as their official vehicle? And I'll show you how many uses BMWs/Mercs/Audis. 

Again, there will be NO prestige to India is the XJ is used- the Brits will be the ones who celebrate- not many see JLR as an Indian brand, at least not yet. IF Tata and or Mahindra can produce something akin to the 760Li I will be changing my tune, but right now these BRAND NEW 760Li Security editions do the job well and are the best solution on the table.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Cant wait till 15th.


Me neither! Can't wait to see what they have to say/show on the SF! Just seeing what the regulars get up to should be good! In the trailer all the guys are looking pretty well equipped bro!

(also Aug 15th is another of the few occasions the PM's motorcade is shown so yet more to look forward to for me  )


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Me neither! Can't wait to see what they have to say/show on the SF! Just seeing what the regulars get up to should be good! In the trailer all the guys are looking pretty well equipped bro!
> 
> (also Aug 15th is another of the few occasions the PM's motorcade is shown so yet more to look forward to for me  )



BRO, CAN YOU RECORD THAT DOCUMENTARY IN DISCOVERY CHANNEL?? I DON'T THINK THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL WILL EVER UPLOAD THEIR VIDEOS IN YOUTUBE...


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> BRO, CAN YOU RECORD THAT DOCUMENTARY IN DISCOVERY CHANNEL?? I DON'T THINK THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL WILL EVER UPLOAD THEIR VIDEOS IN YOUTUBE...


I wish I could! But the Dicovery channel here in the UK is different to the one in India, our programming isn't the same- I doubt they'll ever broadcast that show here in the UK  I'm hoping it somehow finds its way onto the internet so I can watch it one day.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> I wish I could! But the Dicovery channel here in the UK is different to the one in India, our programming isn't the same- I doubt they'll ever broadcast that show here in the UK  I'm hoping it somehow finds its way onto the internet so I can watch it one day.



is there any way to watch Discovery channel online?? no links in their site.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> is there any way to watch Discovery channel online?? no links in their site.


I seriously doubt it but I'll look into it


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## hkdas




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## Daedalus

hkdas said:


> is there any way to watch Discovery channel online?? no links in their site.





Abingdonboy said:


> I seriously doubt it but I'll look into it


Here you go guys. Just dig through all those ads to get to the video. 
Watch Discovery Hindi live, Discovery Hindi live streaming , Discovery Channel in Hindi Live | Live streaming

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


>




Infantry.


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## Mr.S.Singh

Abingdonboy said:


> How so? And anyway I am against limos for head of state transport- they are too large and difficult to manoeuvre (especially in a contact), the 760Li with its combination of raw power (V12 540 hp) and short wheel base (compared to a limo) is ideal- offering both luxury and comfort to the PM but if the brown stuff hits the fan the driver can quite easily flee the scene.


Apart from movement which i agree is a drawback, The lenght of the Limosine gives adequate space for a armored 
President of United states could have well used a Sedan, but choose a Limo



Abingdonboy said:


> Not true, the 760Lis that the SPG is using for the PM right now are all 2014 purchases and are the newer face-ltifted F02, the F01s were bought in 2009 but haven't been seen for a while, SPG must be doing other things with them. As such at the tme of this latest purchase (2013 most likely) the XJ Sentinal was very much around but the SPG went of the BMW- got to be a reason behind that.



BMW for VVIPs - Indian Express this article in 2011 already states PM of India has a BMW
Official state car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All other google searches say the same



Abingdonboy said:


> Why are you so behind the Jag? Tell me what other world leader uses a Jag as their official vehicle? And I'll show you how many uses BMWs/Mercs/Audis.



i like jags
how does it matter how few use a jag, it shouldnt hamper your decision



Abingdonboy said:


> Again, there will be NO prestige to India is the XJ is used- the Brits will be the ones who celebrate- not many see JLR as an Indian brand, at least not yet. IF Tata and or Mahindra can produce something akin to the 760Li I will be changing my tune, but right now these BRAND NEW 760Li Security editions do the job well and are the best solution on the table.


just a consideration, why u getting serious bruv ??


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## hkdas




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## Sergi

@abindonboy:


> You've seen pics of such?


No pics eyes.
Civilians are not allowed to pass through area without proper permissions and many body-checks. Let alone the photography  which is strictly prohibited
though Trekkers and climbers are allowed on the nearby peeks with prior permissions. Few of peeks give a awesome view.

But what I write was a rumour nodoubt. Some how I came to know that competition was part of some inter-services coordination programme. Nothing more

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I cant watch it.

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## Unknowncommando



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## gau8av

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 43209
> View attachment 43210


get rid of the watermarks, man. Unless you're trying to sell them


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## Jai_Hind

Is this guy leftie....??







Malabar. Is this camo new..??


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## hkdas

In early 1983, six army officers from a classified unit called the Special Group (SG) were flown to a secret base of Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli commando force that led the 1977 rescue of hostages from Entebbe airport in Uganda. The mission, coordinated by RAW with Mossad, was classified because India didn't have diplomatic ties with Israel and it did not want to anger its Arab friends. The officers trained in counter-terror-in carefully recreated landscapes of streets, buildings and vehicles-at the base near Tel Aviv for 22 days. The experience, an SG officer, now retired, recalls, was a culture shock for the Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see women guarding Israeli Defense Forces headquarters and soldiers high-five their officers.



Special group commandos train at their base in SarsawaThe newly trained officers would soon come in handy. New Delhi was hosting two summits in 1983 that would burnish Indira Gandhi's standing as a global leader-the Non-Aligned Summit in March and the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in November-and it was keen to prevent terrorist attacks of the sort that had bedevilled the West through the 1960s and 1970s. The summits passed without event under SG's watchful eye.



Special group commandos train at their base in Sarsawa, Uttar Pradesh,in 1984SG was created in 1981. Till then, the Army had shown little interest in raising a specialised anti-terrorist force. So the government turned to the Directorate General Security, a covert unit set up by the Jawaharlal Nehru government with CIA's assistance after the 1962 war with China. The directorate, which had its own air wing, the Aviation Research Centre, and a paramilitary comprising Tibetans, the Special Frontier Force (SFF), was subsumed within raw when the external intelligence agency was created in 1968. In 1982, the directorate launched Project Sunray: It tasked a colonel of the Army's 10th Para/Special Forces to set up a unit of 250 officers and men, all Indians unlike SFF, in commando companies 55, 56 and 57.

The unit, housed in tents at the Sarsawa Indian Air Force base near Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh and christened Special Group, operated under the RAW chief. raw wanted to train the unit's officers with SAS--SG officers had recommended it after a tour of the British agency's training facility at Hereford-but the government turned down the proposal, apparently due to the high training cost of Â£5,000 per trooper. SG improvised its own training regimen; being directly under the Prime Minister's Cabinet Secretariat helped. "We just had to ask for equipment and it would be given," recalls a former SG officer. A request for over 100 bulletproof vests and tactical helmets was met almost overnight and the gear flown in from Israel.



Two special group officers at the Golden Temple during BluestarSG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after it was aborted, for Bluestar. Following Indira's assassination, SG men protected Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and his family until the government raised the Special Protection Group in 1985. Soon after, nearly 200 SG personnel were deputed to a new anti-terrorist force under the Union home ministry, the National Security Guard. The Special Group remains RAW's ultra-secret military unit for clandestine intelligence missions, the equivalent of CIA's Special Activities Division.

_*Follow the writer on Twitter @SandeepUnnithan*_



Read more at: Operation Bluestar: The league of shadows : The Big Story - India Today

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## Abingdonboy

Jai_Hind said:


> Malabar. Is this camo new..??


Not a Malabar. These guys are SPB- yes this the IN's new combat uniform.

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## cloud_9



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## sid426

What is that briefcase one SPG on the left is holding?


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## kurup

sid426 said:


> What is that briefcase one SPG on the left is holding?



Bulletproof Briefcase for PM .

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## cloud_9

There were a few briefcases around.


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## Abingdonboy

cloud_9 said:


> There were a few briefcases around.


Where did you get the screen grab from bro?


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## cloud_9

Abingdonboy said:


> Where did you get the screen grab from bro?


From one of the videos,posted somewhere on the I Day thread.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Shows starts..mini Uavs in use by infantry

Camelbaks and radars to see past walls in use by SF Army

Infantry troops well equipped with BpJs and and elbow and knee guard and the best thing is exchange of real time information at various levels


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Infantry troops well equipped with BpJs and and elbow and knee guard and the best thing is exchange of real time information at various levels


The flow of information in real time surely is a game changer. As for personal equipment- those regulars were also wearing tactical gloves


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The flow of information in real time surely is a game changer. As for personal equipment- those regulars were also wearing tactical gloves



Oh so you are watching it too...no need for me to give you real time info here then.

BTW i like SFs and Ghataks equipment and the real time info thing showed how IA has very well integrated IT...but the documentary is turning boring now.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Oh so you are watching it too...no need for me to give you real time info here then.


haha, you've cursed me! The streaming site has suddenly decided to not work anymore  


It was getting a little stagnant I agree but still enjoyable on the whole.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> haha, you've cursed me! The streaming site has suddenly decided to not work anymore
> 
> 
> It was getting a little stagnant I agree but still enjoyable on the whole.



Nothing special in the last 20 mins.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nothing special in the last 20 mins.


As long as there were no more SFs shown I will be okay 


Hopefully the entire episode finds itself on the internet soon..

Thank you @Daedalus for the link! Was very much worth the wait (the first 15 mins or so)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> haha, you've cursed me! The streaming site has suddenly decided to not work anymore
> 
> 
> It was getting a little stagnant I agree but still enjoyable on the whole.




Poorly shot video..could have told a better story.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Poorly shot video..could have told a better story.


A little more information would have been useful and of course the typical "desi" errors (Dhurv*a* helicopter).


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Any way this the video could be available on You tube in near future ?

By the way to scene of para SF was awesome ... dying to download it.


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## Abingdonboy

SPG:


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## Abingdonboy



Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## hkdas

for those who miss the program
Revealed : The Line Of Control 15th August 2014 Video Watch Online | DesiTvForum – No.1 Indian Television & Bollywood Portal

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2


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## hkdas

hindi version...

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## Abingdonboy

Modi in Nepal:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Modi in Kashmir:




Nepal.

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## Abingdonboy

Modi's cavalcade:


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## Abingdonboy

The SPG still uses the 760Li for former PM Dr MMS:

Former PM Manmohan Singh visits Jaswant Singh at Army RR Hospital - Oneindia Videos


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## Abingdonboy

SPG:





(you can see LED police lights at the top of the X5's rear window)




































Counter Assault Team (CAT):

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## Abingdonboy

India has a rich culture and an incredibly complex history: from the Taj Mahal, to the British East India Company, to the peaceful struggle for independence from British rule personified by Mahatma Ghandi. India has a long history of kingdoms and dynasties that have produced a storied military tradition. The strong and independent Indian military tradition continued in
both World Wars and to this day with a modern military and an emerging relationship with the United States. In a case of what right looks like, Green Berets of the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) are developing a habitual and mutually beneficial relationship with the Indian Parachute Regiment. The history of India is colorful and proud, but it is the future of
India that looks so promising. More specifically, the relationship between the Indian Parachute Regiment and 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) demonstrates how appropriate SOF alignment in partner-nation develop

*Why India*
India is a growing trading partner for the United States in large measure because of open market polices instituted by India in 1990. The country has experienced an average of 6.5 percent annual growth over the last 10 years. Some additional facts taken from the CIA Fact Book in the most recent update as of May 2013 reveal: India has the fourth largest GDP in the world; the second largest work force; the second largest population, 87.5 percent of the population is under 54; and the United States is its fifth largest import partner.1 In 2009 the United States began what the State Department calls a “strategic dialogue”, bilateral talks involving energy, trade, climate change, education and counterterrorism.

Since the State Department strategic dialogue began, “Bilateral trade between our two countries has gone up 40 percent…”2 A quick analysis of the economic possibilities highlights several potential opportunities. India represents a huge potential consumer market for American goods. Thanks to a large English speaking and educated class, foreign direct investment could open up manufacturing possibilities and provide an alternative to Chinese-based factories for American corporations. The picture is not at all perfect as India does indeed face challenges inhibiting continued growth: sprawling poverty, government corruption and control over the free-market system pose risks to corporations wishing to invest. Despite the risks, India can provide important economic opportunities for the United States and for the people of India. Just as economic ties are a part of the strategic dialogue and beneficial for India and the United States, mutually supporting efforts in counterterrorism could also benefit both countries.

Border disputes and terrorist attacks are constant reminders of the remnants of colonialism and extremism for the government of India. There are numerous disputed areas, stretching from the eastern border of Afghanistan across the Kashmir to the Arunachal Pradesh area bordering Myanmar and the large disputed area known as the Line of Actual Control to the north bordering China. The most important and strategically contested area is the Kashmir where India, Pakistan and China each claim all or portions of the area. T*he current status of forces has Pakistan occupying Kashmir to the north bordering Afghanistan and India retaining the Jammu and Kashmir area to the south bordering India proper.* The deeply held convictions of the dispute between Pakistan and India in the Kashmir can be easily identified; J&K is approximately 77 percent Muslim but holds many religious holy sites for Buddhism and Hinduism. Religious convictions aside, a more pragmatic look at J&K crystallizes the economic impact the area has for both countries. Water rights are a major issue between India and Pakistan as it relates to the Indus River basin, the largest source of water for Pakistan, which originates in the Himalaya’s of Indian controlled J&K.

As a result, India has struggled with an ongoing counterinsurgency throughout J&K. The most feared arm of the insurgency
opposing Indian rule in J&K is Lashkare- Taiba. Initially focused on opposition to Soviet expansionism in Afghanistan, it is
believed that LeTs current goal is to create a liberated united Kashmir. LeT is well known for recruiting and radicalizing members of the Islamic faith to join the fighting in Kashmir and to conduct terrorist attacks against India. The most spectacular and deadly was the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, where 12 coordinated attacks over three days killed 166 people and wounded 308. The United States designated the LeT a terrorist group in 2003, which makes targeting this group of mutual interest to the United States and India. In the defense of Pakistan’s claims to J&K, the UN mandated self determination
vote contained in UNSCR’s 47 and 80 relating to the Kashmir region has not taken place. As described by a paper written by
Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a retired member of the Pakistani Army, “From a Pakistani perspective, Kashmir is the core issue and
the root of tension with India. It maintains that India is in unlawful occupation of J&K and it is the right of the people of the state to determine their future in accordance with their aspirations.”3 Negotiations between India and Pakistan have produced minor agreements, but a permanent solution is still elusive. One of the chief fears of Indians at large as it relates to the Kashmir, is that as the U.S. draws down in Afghanistan, the Indians suspect increased insurgent activity from hardened Afghanistan fighters. The border dispute between India and Pakistan, where Pakistan is a critical U. S. partner in the fight against al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, makes the U. S. relationship with India and Pakistan diplomatically challenging in that
cooperation from both countries is needed to help combat regional terror groups.

In addition to the challenges previously discussed, China also has claims in the Kashmir region, specifically Aksai Chin. An
article by Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi in 2013 describes it succinctly “The origins of the dispute date back to the British Raj which failed to clearly demarcate its border between its colony and China. By and large, its border issue revolves around two main boundary designs that have been put forward by the British. One of them, the Johnson Line, places Aksai Chin under Indian control, where as the other, the McDonald Line, classifies it as Chinese territory.” 4 There are several key reasons why the Chinese find the Kashmir strategically important. First, highway G219 runs along China’s western border and is the only Line of Communication connecting Xinjiang province in the north to Tibet in the south, it transverses Aksai Chin turning this disputed area into key terrain for national defense.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New
Delhi 2013, postulates that in the event of potential conflicts that bind up sea lanes, China needs an alternative land route to
shipping lanes. That route would lead out of Aksai Chin, across the Kashmir and down through Pakistan to reach ports in the Arabian Sea.5 The potential partnership between China and Pakistan will make J&K vitally important to India in the event hostilities break out with China.

“The U.S.-India relationship is the strongest it has been since India gained its independence in 1947. A strengthened U.S.-India strategic partnership is imperative to achieve U.S. national interests including securing regional security, strengthening the international trading system, protecting shared domains, countering terrorism and bolstering international non proliferation.” — Adm. Samuel J. Locklear III, PACOM Commander, testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, April 9, 2013.



*Military Engagements*
There is a growing and mutually beneficial military relationship between the United States and India. A quick look at a map of
the United States Pacific Command area of responsibility reveals the extent to which it is covered by water. This places the U.S. 7th Fleet in the forefront of U.S. presence in the Pacific and an important leader in partnernation development. As early as 1992, the United States, Japan, Australia, Singapore and India have conducted Exercise Malabar. *The U.S. 7th Fleet is the American beneficiary of this exercise and in 2012 Navy SEALs participated with the Indian Navy Marine Commando’s, a natural SEAL alignment for SOF-to-SOF engagements. *This same type of natural alignment also exists between the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and the Indian Parachute Regiment where Green Berets are the force of choice.

The Parachute Regiment of the Indian Army is organized into 10 PARA Battalions, seven of which are designated as Special
Forces Battalions. The genesis for the development of the SF PARA Battalions was to create counterinsurgency experts and to provide a deep-strike capability. Their other core missions closely mirror those of U.S. Green Berets.* An Indian PARA Battalion is organized into four troops consisting of 20 to 24 men in each troop. Each troop is organized into six-man
teams lead by an officer. Each Soldier has a specific skill, very similar to our military occupational specialties, where each man is trained in a primary skill: navigation, demolitions, communications, weapons or medical and they are also cross trained in a secondary skill. The SF Battalions are expected to operate in high altitude, mountainous terrain; therefore every Soldier is trained in mountaineering. They can be deployed as a troop or as small operational teams.* During Exercise Vajra Prahar 2011,
two troops from the 1st and 4th PARA (SF) performed extremely well conducting troop level direct-action training missions.

Vajra Prahar is an annual bilateral exercise between the United States and India that involves conventional and SOF engagements. In 2011 Alpha Company, 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) hosted Vajra Prahar in the United States mainland, a significant milestone for the governments of India and the United States. The Company sponsored two troops from the 1st PARA and 4th PARA (SF) respectively at Joint Base Lewis McChord and Yakima Training Center. The company leadership served as the lead agent for planning and execution along with three of the company’s ODAs who participated in and conducted the training. Alpha Company leadership led the exercise through all phases of the
operation. It began with the reservation of resources at JBLM and YTC to include: ranges, training areas, billeting, sustainment and air assets, moved into execution at both JBLM and YTC and finally redeployment back to India. The company split its training at two sites approximately 170 miles apart, which required a ground convoy of over 100
personnel with weapons and equipment to conduct two weeks of rigorous close-quarter combat and aerial sniper training. As part of the newly formed Alpha Company validation requirements, the unit established an AOB headquarters to orchestrate the round robin training and support the culmination event by providing C2 for the PARA troops and ODAs on a combined direct-action training mission. Alpha Company concluded the exercise with a layout of SOF-specific equipment and attendance to the 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) activation ceremony. This exercise was a unique opportunity for the 1st PARA (SF), who brought elements of the battalion command to provide leadership, planning and command and control, to take advantage of the great training facilities at both JBLM and YTC. Fortunately for 1st PARA (SF), Alpha Company was able to incorporate 4/160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the premier SOF rotary-wing asset, to make the exercise a world-class training event. The company sergeant major during the exercise, Sergeant Major Klingenberg, agrees “There was a huge benefit for the Indian participants as they rarely leave the country as part of a JCET program. They departed with an introduction to new techniques in close-quarters battle, fast-rope insertion and extraction system and sniper marksmanship
to include aerial sniper training. We also conducted a 70-man combined hit on a target at an urban-training site complete with FRIES infil from 4/160 Special Operations Aviations Regiment. This was a rare opportunity for the Indians to participate in
this scale of an operation.”

As part of the Special Operations Command Pacific Country Action Plan, the 1st SFG(A) conducts numerous JCETs to India annually. The engagements are almost exclusively with the Indian Parachute Regiment. One of the most significant elements of the relationship is the ability to grow capability, to build, not only expertise at the Soldier level but collective skills at the troop level and higher. This correct SOF-to-SOF alignment occurs in other nations in the PACOM AOR and is another example of what right looks like. By aligning with a specific unit, in this case the Indian Parachute Regiment, ODAs can move well beyond individual Soldier tasks and work on collective tasks, battalion long-range planning, embedding of enablers as examples, at the tactical and operational levels.

In 2012, Alpha Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st SFG(A) deployed with three ODAs on a JCET conducted with the 1st PARA at the Indian Special Forces Training Facility at Nahan Cantonment, India. This was a mutually beneficial training event where both units alternated instructors to conduct combined training. *The skill level of the Indian instructors was first rate as highlighted in the after-action review by Alpha Company, “Indian SOF has very knowledgeable instructors and good instructional materials leading to well taught classes.* Transcending Indian operations, USSF should continually assess their partner-nations’ expertise and levy lessons-learned briefs and case studies to not only build combat effectiveness but also build rapport.” Because of the experience and expertise of both SOF units, a true peer- to-peer style exchange of training and TTPs occurred. By aligning with the right unit, building a habitual relationship, establishing peer-to-peer relationships that create trust and respect, tangible and measurable gains at organizational effectiveness can be realized. A backward glance towards Iraq and Afghanistan and the Green Beret creation of and partnerships with Special Weapons and Tactics and SOF units are examples of the right SOF-to-SOF alignment and how establishing habitual relationships can produce very effective units.



*Future Roles*
In India, the United States could have another strong partner with mutually supporting interests in economic development, regional stability and combating terrorism. As senior U.S. policy makers look East in the pivot to Asia, in terms of the case for India and future partnerships with the United States, the future does hold promise. While 1st SFG(A) is one small piece of U.S. efforts with India, their role in building capability with the Indian Parachute Regiment and its role in counterterrorism and counterinsurgency efforts for the country of India will have strategic implications. The economic opportunities for both nations could shape the balance of power in South East Asia and provide strategic impacts on world markets. Finally, a mutually supporting effort in combating terror in the remote and historically volatile region of the Kashmir could help create space and time for the fledgling government of Afghanistan to find its identity and move forward as the United States begins to pull its forces and resources back home.


Command Sergeant Major Greggory L. Hayes is the command sergeant major for 4th Bn., 1st Special Forces Group (A). He has served in several capacities in the PACOM AOR, serving as the Demining Coordinator-Cambodia, serving as a team sergeant to ODA 172, 3rd Bn., 1st Special Forces Group in support of Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines. He has a bachelor’s in psychology and a master’s in business administration from Webster University.












------------------

As an aside, Vajra Prahar is held every year by the PARA (SF) and Green Berets and had been covered quite a bit in the earlier editions but since the 2011 exercise nothing has come out regarding them, the 2012 and 2013 exercises took place but there is nothing to show for it as far as the public are concerned- interesting to anyone else? The US who is normally very good at covering these sort of bilateral exercises has not put out ANYTHING on the matter nor has the Indian side.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> India has a rich culture and an incredibly complex history: from the Taj Mahal, to the British East India Company, to the peaceful struggle for independence from British rule personified by Mahatma Ghandi. India has a long history of kingdoms and dynasties that have produced a storied military tradition. The strong and independent Indian military tradition continued in
> both World Wars and to this day with a modern military and an emerging relationship with the United States. In a case of what right looks like, Green Berets of the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) are developing a habitual and mutually beneficial relationship with the Indian Parachute Regiment. The history of India is colorful and proud, but it is the future of
> India that looks so promising. More specifically, the relationship between the Indian Parachute Regiment and 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) demonstrates how appropriate SOF alignment in partner-nation develop
> 
> *Why India*
> India is a growing trading partner for the United States in large measure because of open market polices instituted by India in 1990. The country has experienced an average of 6.5 percent annual growth over the last 10 years. Some additional facts taken from the CIA Fact Book in the most recent update as of May 2013 reveal: India has the fourth largest GDP in the world; the second largest work force; the second largest population, 87.5 percent of the population is under 54; and the United States is its fifth largest import partner.1 In 2009 the United States began what the State Department calls a “strategic dialogue”, bilateral talks involving energy, trade, climate change, education and counterterrorism.
> 
> Since the State Department strategic dialogue began, “Bilateral trade between our two countries has gone up 40 percent…”2 A quick analysis of the economic possibilities highlights several potential opportunities. India represents a huge potential consumer market for American goods. Thanks to a large English speaking and educated class, foreign direct investment could open up manufacturing possibilities and provide an alternative to Chinese-based factories for American corporations. The picture is not at all perfect as India does indeed face challenges inhibiting continued growth: sprawling poverty, government corruption and control over the free-market system pose risks to corporations wishing to invest. Despite the risks, India can provide important economic opportunities for the United States and for the people of India. Just as economic ties are a part of the strategic dialogue and beneficial for India and the United States, mutually supporting efforts in counterterrorism could also benefit both countries.
> 
> Border disputes and terrorist attacks are constant reminders of the remnants of colonialism and extremism for the government of India. There are numerous disputed areas, stretching from the eastern border of Afghanistan across the Kashmir to the Arunachal Pradesh area bordering Myanmar and the large disputed area known as the Line of Actual Control to the north bordering China. The most important and strategically contested area is the Kashmir where India, Pakistan and China each claim all or portions of the area. T*he current status of forces has Pakistan occupying Kashmir to the north bordering Afghanistan and India retaining the Jammu and Kashmir area to the south bordering India proper.* The deeply held convictions of the dispute between Pakistan and India in the Kashmir can be easily identified; J&K is approximately 77 percent Muslim but holds many religious holy sites for Buddhism and Hinduism. Religious convictions aside, a more pragmatic look at J&K crystallizes the economic impact the area has for both countries. Water rights are a major issue between India and Pakistan as it relates to the Indus River basin, the largest source of water for Pakistan, which originates in the Himalaya’s of Indian controlled J&K.
> 
> As a result, India has struggled with an ongoing counterinsurgency throughout J&K. The most feared arm of the insurgency
> opposing Indian rule in J&K is Lashkare- Taiba. Initially focused on opposition to Soviet expansionism in Afghanistan, it is
> believed that LeTs current goal is to create a liberated united Kashmir. LeT is well known for recruiting and radicalizing members of the Islamic faith to join the fighting in Kashmir and to conduct terrorist attacks against India. The most spectacular and deadly was the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, where 12 coordinated attacks over three days killed 166 people and wounded 308. The United States designated the LeT a terrorist group in 2003, which makes targeting this group of mutual interest to the United States and India. In the defense of Pakistan’s claims to J&K, the UN mandated self determination
> vote contained in UNSCR’s 47 and 80 relating to the Kashmir region has not taken place. As described by a paper written by
> Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a retired member of the Pakistani Army, “From a Pakistani perspective, Kashmir is the core issue and
> the root of tension with India. It maintains that India is in unlawful occupation of J&K and it is the right of the people of the state to determine their future in accordance with their aspirations.”3 Negotiations between India and Pakistan have produced minor agreements, but a permanent solution is still elusive. One of the chief fears of Indians at large as it relates to the Kashmir, is that as the U.S. draws down in Afghanistan, the Indians suspect increased insurgent activity from hardened Afghanistan fighters. The border dispute between India and Pakistan, where Pakistan is a critical U. S. partner in the fight against al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, makes the U. S. relationship with India and Pakistan diplomatically challenging in that
> cooperation from both countries is needed to help combat regional terror groups.
> 
> In addition to the challenges previously discussed, China also has claims in the Kashmir region, specifically Aksai Chin. An
> article by Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi in 2013 describes it succinctly “The origins of the dispute date back to the British Raj which failed to clearly demarcate its border between its colony and China. By and large, its border issue revolves around two main boundary designs that have been put forward by the British. One of them, the Johnson Line, places Aksai Chin under Indian control, where as the other, the McDonald Line, classifies it as Chinese territory.” 4 There are several key reasons why the Chinese find the Kashmir strategically important. First, highway G219 runs along China’s western border and is the only Line of Communication connecting Xinjiang province in the north to Tibet in the south, it transverses Aksai Chin turning this disputed area into key terrain for national defense.
> Secondly, and perhaps more importantly Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New
> Delhi 2013, postulates that in the event of potential conflicts that bind up sea lanes, China needs an alternative land route to
> shipping lanes. That route would lead out of Aksai Chin, across the Kashmir and down through Pakistan to reach ports in the Arabian Sea.5 The potential partnership between China and Pakistan will make J&K vitally important to India in the event hostilities break out with China.
> 
> “The U.S.-India relationship is the strongest it has been since India gained its independence in 1947. A strengthened U.S.-India strategic partnership is imperative to achieve U.S. national interests including securing regional security, strengthening the international trading system, protecting shared domains, countering terrorism and bolstering international non proliferation.” — Adm. Samuel J. Locklear III, PACOM Commander, testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, April 9, 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> *Military Engagements*
> There is a growing and mutually beneficial military relationship between the United States and India. A quick look at a map of
> the United States Pacific Command area of responsibility reveals the extent to which it is covered by water. This places the U.S. 7th Fleet in the forefront of U.S. presence in the Pacific and an important leader in partnernation development. As early as 1992, the United States, Japan, Australia, Singapore and India have conducted Exercise Malabar. *The U.S. 7th Fleet is the American beneficiary of this exercise and in 2012 Navy SEALs participated with the Indian Navy Marine Commando’s, a natural SEAL alignment for SOF-to-SOF engagements. *This same type of natural alignment also exists between the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and the Indian Parachute Regiment where Green Berets are the force of choice.
> 
> The Parachute Regiment of the Indian Army is organized into 10 PARA Battalions, seven of which are designated as Special
> Forces Battalions. The genesis for the development of the SF PARA Battalions was to create counterinsurgency experts and to provide a deep-strike capability. Their other core missions closely mirror those of U.S. Green Berets.* An Indian PARA Battalion is organized into four troops consisting of 20 to 24 men in each troop. Each troop is organized into six-man
> teams lead by an officer. Each Soldier has a specific skill, very similar to our military occupational specialties, where each man is trained in a primary skill: navigation, demolitions, communications, weapons or medical and they are also cross trained in a secondary skill. The SF Battalions are expected to operate in high altitude, mountainous terrain; therefore every Soldier is trained in mountaineering. They can be deployed as a troop or as small operational teams.* During Exercise Vajra Prahar 2011,
> two troops from the 1st and 4th PARA (SF) performed extremely well conducting troop level direct-action training missions.
> 
> Vajra Prahar is an annual bilateral exercise between the United States and India that involves conventional and SOF engagements. In 2011 Alpha Company, 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) hosted Vajra Prahar in the United States mainland, a significant milestone for the governments of India and the United States. The Company sponsored two troops from the 1st PARA and 4th PARA (SF) respectively at Joint Base Lewis McChord and Yakima Training Center. The company leadership served as the lead agent for planning and execution along with three of the company’s ODAs who participated in and conducted the training. Alpha Company leadership led the exercise through all phases of the
> operation. It began with the reservation of resources at JBLM and YTC to include: ranges, training areas, billeting, sustainment and air assets, moved into execution at both JBLM and YTC and finally redeployment back to India. The company split its training at two sites approximately 170 miles apart, which required a ground convoy of over 100
> personnel with weapons and equipment to conduct two weeks of rigorous close-quarter combat and aerial sniper training. As part of the newly formed Alpha Company validation requirements, the unit established an AOB headquarters to orchestrate the round robin training and support the culmination event by providing C2 for the PARA troops and ODAs on a combined direct-action training mission. Alpha Company concluded the exercise with a layout of SOF-specific equipment and attendance to the 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) activation ceremony. This exercise was a unique opportunity for the 1st PARA (SF), who brought elements of the battalion command to provide leadership, planning and command and control, to take advantage of the great training facilities at both JBLM and YTC. Fortunately for 1st PARA (SF), Alpha Company was able to incorporate 4/160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the premier SOF rotary-wing asset, to make the exercise a world-class training event. The company sergeant major during the exercise, Sergeant Major Klingenberg, agrees “There was a huge benefit for the Indian participants as they rarely leave the country as part of a JCET program. They departed with an introduction to new techniques in close-quarters battle, fast-rope insertion and extraction system and sniper marksmanship
> to include aerial sniper training. We also conducted a 70-man combined hit on a target at an urban-training site complete with FRIES infil from 4/160 Special Operations Aviations Regiment. This was a rare opportunity for the Indians to participate in
> this scale of an operation.”
> 
> As part of the Special Operations Command Pacific Country Action Plan, the 1st SFG(A) conducts numerous JCETs to India annually. The engagements are almost exclusively with the Indian Parachute Regiment. One of the most significant elements of the relationship is the ability to grow capability, to build, not only expertise at the Soldier level but collective skills at the troop level and higher. This correct SOF-to-SOF alignment occurs in other nations in the PACOM AOR and is another example of what right looks like. By aligning with a specific unit, in this case the Indian Parachute Regiment, ODAs can move well beyond individual Soldier tasks and work on collective tasks, battalion long-range planning, embedding of enablers as examples, at the tactical and operational levels.
> 
> In 2012, Alpha Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st SFG(A) deployed with three ODAs on a JCET conducted with the 1st PARA at the Indian Special Forces Training Facility at Nahan Cantonment, India. This was a mutually beneficial training event where both units alternated instructors to conduct combined training. *The skill level of the Indian instructors was first rate as highlighted in the after-action review by Alpha Company, “Indian SOF has very knowledgeable instructors and good instructional materials leading to well taught classes.* Transcending Indian operations, USSF should continually assess their partner-nations’ expertise and levy lessons-learned briefs and case studies to not only build combat effectiveness but also build rapport.” Because of the experience and expertise of both SOF units, a true peer- to-peer style exchange of training and TTPs occurred. By aligning with the right unit, building a habitual relationship, establishing peer-to-peer relationships that create trust and respect, tangible and measurable gains at organizational effectiveness can be realized. A backward glance towards Iraq and Afghanistan and the Green Beret creation of and partnerships with Special Weapons and Tactics and SOF units are examples of the right SOF-to-SOF alignment and how establishing habitual relationships can produce very effective units.
> 
> 
> 
> *Future Roles*
> In India, the United States could have another strong partner with mutually supporting interests in economic development, regional stability and combating terrorism. As senior U.S. policy makers look East in the pivot to Asia, in terms of the case for India and future partnerships with the United States, the future does hold promise. While 1st SFG(A) is one small piece of U.S. efforts with India, their role in building capability with the Indian Parachute Regiment and its role in counterterrorism and counterinsurgency efforts for the country of India will have strategic implications. The economic opportunities for both nations could shape the balance of power in South East Asia and provide strategic impacts on world markets. Finally, a mutually supporting effort in combating terror in the remote and historically volatile region of the Kashmir could help create space and time for the fledgling government of Afghanistan to find its identity and move forward as the United States begins to pull its forces and resources back home.
> 
> 
> Command Sergeant Major Greggory L. Hayes is the command sergeant major for 4th Bn., 1st Special Forces Group (A). He has served in several capacities in the PACOM AOR, serving as the Demining Coordinator-Cambodia, serving as a team sergeant to ODA 172, 3rd Bn., 1st Special Forces Group in support of Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines. He has a bachelor’s in psychology and a master’s in business administration from Webster University.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------
> 
> As an aside, Vajra Prahar is held every year by the PARA (SF) and Green Berets and had been covered quite a bit in the earlier editions but since the 2011 exercise nothing has come out regarding them, the 2012 and 2013 exercises took place but there is nothing to show for it as far as the public are concerned- interesting to anyone else? The US who is normally very good at covering these sort of bilateral exercises has not put out ANYTHING on the matter nor has the Indian side.



So you highlighted the dumbest fantasy to prove what ? The righteous India is is condemned by UNHRC,NGOs,human rights groups for attrocities like mass killings,gang tapes,torture,kidnappings,extra judicial killings in IOK (which is considered a disputed region by UN)... Daily strikes,protests n shooting of civilians during those is a norm .. And Pakistani flags are hoisted in the capital city of Srinagar ?... Way to go..... Also India doesn't allow foriegn media,UN,HRGs to enter IOK ..and keeps lacs of forces ... Making IOK the most militarised zone in the entire world ..A prison ....So much for occupation etc


----------



## ANPP

Abingdonboy said:


> A little more information would have been useful and of course the typical "desi" errors (Dhurv*a* helicopter).


 
Yes of- course desi error. Here in India we usually put "a" after the legendary names of history like Rama to Ram, Ravana to Ravan. Perhaps that's why writer simply name it Dhruva as Dhruv is also a epic name.


----------



## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> India has a rich culture and an incredibly complex history: from the Taj Mahal, to the British East India Company, to the peaceful struggle for independence from British rule personified by Mahatma Ghandi. India has a long history of kingdoms and dynasties that have produced a storied military tradition. The strong and independent Indian military tradition continued in
> both World Wars and to this day with a modern military and an emerging relationship with the United States. In a case of what right looks like, Green Berets of the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) are developing a habitual and mutually beneficial relationship with the Indian Parachute Regiment. The history of India is colorful and proud, but it is the future of
> India that looks so promising. More specifically, the relationship between the Indian Parachute Regiment and 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) demonstrates how appropriate SOF alignment in partner-nation develop
> 
> *Why India*
> India is a growing trading partner for the United States in large measure because of open market polices instituted by India in 1990. The country has experienced an average of 6.5 percent annual growth over the last 10 years. Some additional facts taken from the CIA Fact Book in the most recent update as of May 2013 reveal: India has the fourth largest GDP in the world; the second largest work force; the second largest population, 87.5 percent of the population is under 54; and the United States is its fifth largest import partner.1 In 2009 the United States began what the State Department calls a “strategic dialogue”, bilateral talks involving energy, trade, climate change, education and counterterrorism.
> 
> Since the State Department strategic dialogue began, “Bilateral trade between our two countries has gone up 40 percent…”2 A quick analysis of the economic possibilities highlights several potential opportunities. India represents a huge potential consumer market for American goods. Thanks to a large English speaking and educated class, foreign direct investment could open up manufacturing possibilities and provide an alternative to Chinese-based factories for American corporations. The picture is not at all perfect as India does indeed face challenges inhibiting continued growth: sprawling poverty, government corruption and control over the free-market system pose risks to corporations wishing to invest. Despite the risks, India can provide important economic opportunities for the United States and for the people of India. Just as economic ties are a part of the strategic dialogue and beneficial for India and the United States, mutually supporting efforts in counterterrorism could also benefit both countries.
> 
> Border disputes and terrorist attacks are constant reminders of the remnants of colonialism and extremism for the government of India. There are numerous disputed areas, stretching from the eastern border of Afghanistan across the Kashmir to the Arunachal Pradesh area bordering Myanmar and the large disputed area known as the Line of Actual Control to the north bordering China. The most important and strategically contested area is the Kashmir where India, Pakistan and China each claim all or portions of the area. T*he current status of forces has Pakistan occupying Kashmir to the north bordering Afghanistan and India retaining the Jammu and Kashmir area to the south bordering India proper.* The deeply held convictions of the dispute between Pakistan and India in the Kashmir can be easily identified; J&K is approximately 77 percent Muslim but holds many religious holy sites for Buddhism and Hinduism. Religious convictions aside, a more pragmatic look at J&K crystallizes the economic impact the area has for both countries. Water rights are a major issue between India and Pakistan as it relates to the Indus River basin, the largest source of water for Pakistan, which originates in the Himalaya’s of Indian controlled J&K.
> 
> As a result, India has struggled with an ongoing counterinsurgency throughout J&K. The most feared arm of the insurgency
> opposing Indian rule in J&K is Lashkare- Taiba. Initially focused on opposition to Soviet expansionism in Afghanistan, it is
> believed that LeTs current goal is to create a liberated united Kashmir. LeT is well known for recruiting and radicalizing members of the Islamic faith to join the fighting in Kashmir and to conduct terrorist attacks against India. The most spectacular and deadly was the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, where 12 coordinated attacks over three days killed 166 people and wounded 308. The United States designated the LeT a terrorist group in 2003, which makes targeting this group of mutual interest to the United States and India. In the defense of Pakistan’s claims to J&K, the UN mandated self determination
> vote contained in UNSCR’s 47 and 80 relating to the Kashmir region has not taken place. As described by a paper written by
> Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a retired member of the Pakistani Army, “From a Pakistani perspective, Kashmir is the core issue and
> the root of tension with India. It maintains that India is in unlawful occupation of J&K and it is the right of the people of the state to determine their future in accordance with their aspirations.”3 Negotiations between India and Pakistan have produced minor agreements, but a permanent solution is still elusive. One of the chief fears of Indians at large as it relates to the Kashmir, is that as the U.S. draws down in Afghanistan, the Indians suspect increased insurgent activity from hardened Afghanistan fighters. The border dispute between India and Pakistan, where Pakistan is a critical U. S. partner in the fight against al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, makes the U. S. relationship with India and Pakistan diplomatically challenging in that
> cooperation from both countries is needed to help combat regional terror groups.
> 
> In addition to the challenges previously discussed, China also has claims in the Kashmir region, specifically Aksai Chin. An
> article by Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi in 2013 describes it succinctly “The origins of the dispute date back to the British Raj which failed to clearly demarcate its border between its colony and China. By and large, its border issue revolves around two main boundary designs that have been put forward by the British. One of them, the Johnson Line, places Aksai Chin under Indian control, where as the other, the McDonald Line, classifies it as Chinese territory.” 4 There are several key reasons why the Chinese find the Kashmir strategically important. First, highway G219 runs along China’s western border and is the only Line of Communication connecting Xinjiang province in the north to Tibet in the south, it transverses Aksai Chin turning this disputed area into key terrain for national defense.
> Secondly, and perhaps more importantly Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New
> Delhi 2013, postulates that in the event of potential conflicts that bind up sea lanes, China needs an alternative land route to
> shipping lanes. That route would lead out of Aksai Chin, across the Kashmir and down through Pakistan to reach ports in the Arabian Sea.5 The potential partnership between China and Pakistan will make J&K vitally important to India in the event hostilities break out with China.
> 
> “The U.S.-India relationship is the strongest it has been since India gained its independence in 1947. A strengthened U.S.-India strategic partnership is imperative to achieve U.S. national interests including securing regional security, strengthening the international trading system, protecting shared domains, countering terrorism and bolstering international non proliferation.” — Adm. Samuel J. Locklear III, PACOM Commander, testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, April 9, 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> *Military Engagements*
> There is a growing and mutually beneficial military relationship between the United States and India. A quick look at a map of
> the United States Pacific Command area of responsibility reveals the extent to which it is covered by water. This places the U.S. 7th Fleet in the forefront of U.S. presence in the Pacific and an important leader in partnernation development. As early as 1992, the United States, Japan, Australia, Singapore and India have conducted Exercise Malabar. *The U.S. 7th Fleet is the American beneficiary of this exercise and in 2012 Navy SEALs participated with the Indian Navy Marine Commando’s, a natural SEAL alignment for SOF-to-SOF engagements. *This same type of natural alignment also exists between the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and the Indian Parachute Regiment where Green Berets are the force of choice.
> 
> The Parachute Regiment of the Indian Army is organized into 10 PARA Battalions, seven of which are designated as Special
> Forces Battalions. The genesis for the development of the SF PARA Battalions was to create counterinsurgency experts and to provide a deep-strike capability. Their other core missions closely mirror those of U.S. Green Berets.* An Indian PARA Battalion is organized into four troops consisting of 20 to 24 men in each troop. Each troop is organized into six-man
> teams lead by an officer. Each Soldier has a specific skill, very similar to our military occupational specialties, where each man is trained in a primary skill: navigation, demolitions, communications, weapons or medical and they are also cross trained in a secondary skill. The SF Battalions are expected to operate in high altitude, mountainous terrain; therefore every Soldier is trained in mountaineering. They can be deployed as a troop or as small operational teams.* During Exercise Vajra Prahar 2011,
> two troops from the 1st and 4th PARA (SF) performed extremely well conducting troop level direct-action training missions.
> 
> Vajra Prahar is an annual bilateral exercise between the United States and India that involves conventional and SOF engagements. In 2011 Alpha Company, 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) hosted Vajra Prahar in the United States mainland, a significant milestone for the governments of India and the United States. The Company sponsored two troops from the 1st PARA and 4th PARA (SF) respectively at Joint Base Lewis McChord and Yakima Training Center. The company leadership served as the lead agent for planning and execution along with three of the company’s ODAs who participated in and conducted the training. Alpha Company leadership led the exercise through all phases of the
> operation. It began with the reservation of resources at JBLM and YTC to include: ranges, training areas, billeting, sustainment and air assets, moved into execution at both JBLM and YTC and finally redeployment back to India. The company split its training at two sites approximately 170 miles apart, which required a ground convoy of over 100
> personnel with weapons and equipment to conduct two weeks of rigorous close-quarter combat and aerial sniper training. As part of the newly formed Alpha Company validation requirements, the unit established an AOB headquarters to orchestrate the round robin training and support the culmination event by providing C2 for the PARA troops and ODAs on a combined direct-action training mission. Alpha Company concluded the exercise with a layout of SOF-specific equipment and attendance to the 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) activation ceremony. This exercise was a unique opportunity for the 1st PARA (SF), who brought elements of the battalion command to provide leadership, planning and command and control, to take advantage of the great training facilities at both JBLM and YTC. Fortunately for 1st PARA (SF), Alpha Company was able to incorporate 4/160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the premier SOF rotary-wing asset, to make the exercise a world-class training event. The company sergeant major during the exercise, Sergeant Major Klingenberg, agrees “There was a huge benefit for the Indian participants as they rarely leave the country as part of a JCET program. They departed with an introduction to new techniques in close-quarters battle, fast-rope insertion and extraction system and sniper marksmanship
> to include aerial sniper training. We also conducted a 70-man combined hit on a target at an urban-training site complete with FRIES infil from 4/160 Special Operations Aviations Regiment. This was a rare opportunity for the Indians to participate in
> this scale of an operation.”
> 
> As part of the Special Operations Command Pacific Country Action Plan, the 1st SFG(A) conducts numerous JCETs to India annually. The engagements are almost exclusively with the Indian Parachute Regiment. One of the most significant elements of the relationship is the ability to grow capability, to build, not only expertise at the Soldier level but collective skills at the troop level and higher. This correct SOF-to-SOF alignment occurs in other nations in the PACOM AOR and is another example of what right looks like. By aligning with a specific unit, in this case the Indian Parachute Regiment, ODAs can move well beyond individual Soldier tasks and work on collective tasks, battalion long-range planning, embedding of enablers as examples, at the tactical and operational levels.
> 
> In 2012, Alpha Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st SFG(A) deployed with three ODAs on a JCET conducted with the 1st PARA at the Indian Special Forces Training Facility at Nahan Cantonment, India. This was a mutually beneficial training event where both units alternated instructors to conduct combined training. *The skill level of the Indian instructors was first rate as highlighted in the after-action review by Alpha Company, “Indian SOF has very knowledgeable instructors and good instructional materials leading to well taught classes.* Transcending Indian operations, USSF should continually assess their partner-nations’ expertise and levy lessons-learned briefs and case studies to not only build combat effectiveness but also build rapport.” Because of the experience and expertise of both SOF units, a true peer- to-peer style exchange of training and TTPs occurred. By aligning with the right unit, building a habitual relationship, establishing peer-to-peer relationships that create trust and respect, tangible and measurable gains at organizational effectiveness can be realized. A backward glance towards Iraq and Afghanistan and the Green Beret creation of and partnerships with Special Weapons and Tactics and SOF units are examples of the right SOF-to-SOF alignment and how establishing habitual relationships can produce very effective units.
> 
> 
> 
> *Future Roles*
> In India, the United States could have another strong partner with mutually supporting interests in economic development, regional stability and combating terrorism. As senior U.S. policy makers look East in the pivot to Asia, in terms of the case for India and future partnerships with the United States, the future does hold promise. While 1st SFG(A) is one small piece of U.S. efforts with India, their role in building capability with the Indian Parachute Regiment and its role in counterterrorism and counterinsurgency efforts for the country of India will have strategic implications. The economic opportunities for both nations could shape the balance of power in South East Asia and provide strategic impacts on world markets. Finally, a mutually supporting effort in combating terror in the remote and historically volatile region of the Kashmir could help create space and time for the fledgling government of Afghanistan to find its identity and move forward as the United States begins to pull its forces and resources back home.
> 
> 
> Command Sergeant Major Greggory L. Hayes is the command sergeant major for 4th Bn., 1st Special Forces Group (A). He has served in several capacities in the PACOM AOR, serving as the Demining Coordinator-Cambodia, serving as a team sergeant to ODA 172, 3rd Bn., 1st Special Forces Group in support of Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines. He has a bachelor’s in psychology and a master’s in business administration from Webster University.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------
> 
> As an aside, Vajra Prahar is held every year by the PARA (SF) and Green Berets and had been covered quite a bit in the earlier editions but since the 2011 exercise nothing has come out regarding them, the 2012 and 2013 exercises took place but there is nothing to show for it as far as the public are concerned- interesting to anyone else? The US who is normally very good at covering these sort of bilateral exercises has not put out ANYTHING on the matter nor has the Indian side.



bro, can you post the link??

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## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


> As an aside, Vajra Prahar is held every year by the PARA (SF) and Green Berets and had been covered quite a bit in the earlier editions but since the 2011 exercise nothing has come out regarding them, the 2012 and 2013 exercises took place but there is nothing to show for it as far as the public are concerned- interesting to anyone else? The US who is normally very good at covering these sort of bilateral exercises has not put out ANYTHING on the matter nor has the Indian side.



Maybe they donot want others to know what they together are training for ..... 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So you highlighted the dumbest fantasy to prove what ? The righteous India is is condemned by UNHRC,NGOs,human rights groups for attrocities like mass killings,gang tapes,torture,kidnappings,extra judicial killings in IOK (which is considered a disputed region by UN)... Daily strikes,protests n shooting of civilians during those is a norm .. And Pakistani flags are hoisted in the capital city of Srinagar ?... Way to go..... Also India doesn't allow foriegn media,UN,HRGs to enter IOK ..and keeps lacs of forces ... Making IOK the most militarised zone in the entire world ..A prison ....So much for occupation etc



Yes Yes we do all of that ........ now go and cry us a river .

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## DESERT FIGHTER

kurup said:


> Maybe they donot want others to know what they together are training for .....
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Yes we do all of that ........ now go and cry us a river .



Nah I ain't indian.. Crying is your department.


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## kurup

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nah I ain't indian.. Crying is your department.



We can see your butt hurt flowing in this thread , over highlighting a word ..... crybabies .

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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nah I ain't indian.. Crying is your department.



oh, we forget that. your department is surrendering. when will be your next surrender?? i am very eager to know

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## Nitin Goyal

hkdas said:


> oh, we forget that. your department is surrendering. when will be your next surrender?? i am very eager to know



nailed it bro, they can target poor civilians only e.g., multiple coups, bangladesh, drone strikes, baluchistan etc


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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> oh, we forget that. your department is surrendering. when will be your next surrender?? i am very eager to know


When we rape n massacre Hindus next time.. You willing?



Nitin Goyal said:


> nailed it bro, they can target poor civilians only e.g., multiple coups, bangladesh, drone strikes, baluchistan etc


You aswell?



kurup said:


> We can see your butt hurt flowing in this thread , over highlighting a word ..... crybabies .


More indian on a Pakistani forum .. Height if insecurities..


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## kurup

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> More indian on a Pakistani forum .. Height if insecurities..



Yep ...... we feel insecure if we don't bust your lies .

There are more Indians than Pakistanis on planet earth too ..... Might be the insecurity of almighty .

Now cry for that too .


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## pursuit of happiness

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So you highlighted the dumbest fantasy to prove what ? The righteous India is is condemned by UNHRC,NGOs,human rights groups for attrocities like mass killings,gang tapes,torture,kidnappings,extra judicial killings in IOK (which is considered a disputed region by UN)... Daily strikes,protests n shooting of civilians during those is a norm .. And Pakistani flags are hoisted in the capital city of Srinagar ?... Way to go..... Also India doesn't allow foriegn media,UN,HRGs to enter IOK ..and keeps lacs of forces ... Making IOK the most militarised zone in the entire world ..A prison ....So much for occupation etc


--
lets see whos dumbest fantacy..
A)human Rights 
india and human rights
india - 120th -
pak- 147 th -
Countries
now if i compare our poulation and landmass.. wither we should ahve 7x more ranking or you should have 7x less ..
----
The 10 Worst Countries For Human Rights
india - not in list
pak - No4
----------------
B)Press freedom - across india menas kashmir too
Press Freedom Index 2013 - Reporters Without Borders
india rank 140
pak - 159
yes there is some restrcion in kashmir...becuase some scums want to do evil there..
-----
C)Daily strikes,protests n shooting of civilians during those is a norm
either you are so naive or you dont read newspaper
india also have riots but you cant compare with scale of pak
we still have law in palce and not thekedari ... jamidari...and gangwars ...sectorian kiilings..
our judicaury and police with all bad exp still work and sentence guilty 
can you claim same for your judicairy and police for same

so dont dig up shit...you will fall first and we second...
---
D)Pak flag in Srinagar
we are democracy... 
even pigs have right to get into mud .. then why not human deprived of that freedom..
sometimes your Goodness is your worst enemy...
yes india is not hot favourt in kashmir but neither do pak..
you got your country made hell for kashmir.. and if you want you can continue..
india does not give dam about it...
want to see other side too..plese




* Kashmiris demand withdrawal of Pakistan troops from Pakistan occupied Kashmir : Truth about Azad Kashmir *




*What Pakistan Did To Kashmir Was All Drama, Lies, Nonsense & Cheating - MQM Chief Altaf Hussain *




*Anger against Pakistan growing in Azad Kashmir*
Kashmir want freedom from Pakistan : Truth about Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir) - YouTube
*ashmir want freedom from Pakistan : Truth about Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir) *

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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So you highlighted the dumbest fantasy to prove what ? The righteous India is is condemned by UNHRC,NGOs,human rights groups for attrocities like mass killings,gang tapes,torture,kidnappings,extra judicial killings in IOK (which is considered a disputed region by UN)... Daily strikes,protests n shooting of civilians during those is a norm .. And Pakistani flags are hoisted in the capital city of Srinagar ?... Way to go..... Also India doesn't allow foriegn media,UN,HRGs to enter IOK ..and keeps lacs of forces ... Making IOK the most militarised zone in the entire world ..A prison ....So much for occupation etc



you forget to read the pakistani part? the mass killings,gang, tapes, torture, kidnappings, extra judicial killings are also happening in pakistani kashmir,FATA and baluchistan. and UN also had condemned that too... yes daily protest and hoisting of pakistani flags in kashmir is happening only because those protesters know that indian army never fire a bullet on the civilians and they are exploiting that.. mean time in pakistan even journalists are shot in public by ISI and your army... hell. even politician are afraid of saying anything against your army... what right do pakistan have to talk about human rights violations and rape in india ?? the pakistan army and your ISI had done a world record on raping women in short periods of time... 100,000 rapes reported in just 3 months and now you are taking about rapes in kashmir?? after all in india judiciary is successfully punish those who commits crimes, be it a military personal or civilian. in pakistan not even a single army man get punished for his crime. you pakistanis have no right to talk about the human rights violations in kashmir when your army and ISI is conducting HRV in all over balochistan FATA and other places....

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## hkdas

*Para-special forces get two new battalions*
Rajat Pandit,TNN | Aug 17, 2014, 09.54 AM IST
AStrategic Forces Command|Special Operations Command|Navy|IAF

NEW DELHI: The Army is slowly but_ surely expanding and modernising its clandestine warfare arm, with two more Para-Special Forces battalions now being raised in tune with its operational doctrine. *N*_*avy and IAF, too, are strengthening their Special Forces with specialized weaponry.*

_But there is still "no forward movement" on the urgent need to bring the country's diverse Special Forces, which report to disparate authorities, under a single operational command to ensure they can be used as "strategic assets" for larger national security objectives.

Neither the Naresh Chandra taskforce's strong recommendation for a Special Operations Command (SOC), nor the chiefs of staff committee's proposal for three additional tri-Service commands - cyber, Special Forces and space - has so far figured on the Modi government's radar._

"Till there is unity in command and control of Special Forces, at least of the military if not the paramilitary ones, India's unconventional warfare arm will never get the sharp edge it requires. We have relegated our Special Forces to the tactical and operational domain, instead of focusing on them as strategic assets to be used with decisive effect," says a top officer.

The armed forces, however, are all gung-ho about their own elite forces, even though there is a "joint doctrine for Special Forces operations". _Navy, for instance, is now hunting for new "underwater special purpose crafts" for their marine commandos or "Marcos"_, who are modelled on the famed US Navy SEALs. Incidentally, it was SEAL Team Six which killed Osama bin Laden at Abbottabad on May 2, 2011.

The Army, in turn, is raising two Para-SF battalions to add to the eight Para-SF and five Para (Airborne) battalions it already has for surveillance, target-designation, out-of-area contingencies, surgical strikes and hit-and-run operations.







"*The raising of the first new Para-SF battalion will be completed by next year, while the second will be in place by 2017-2018*," said an officer. *Concurrently, the Army is also stitching up contracts to modernise its existing 13 battalions, each with around 620 soldiers, apart from training them in Chinese and other foreign language*s.

*The Rs 70 lakh contract for 33 "underwater open-circuit diving equipment" from Sweden, for instance, has already been inked. Then, there is the "controlled aerial delivery system" to drop specialised payloads in designated target areas behind enemy lines.*

_The equipment being inducted ranges from 5.56mm TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles, 7.62mm Galil sniper rifles, M4A1 carbines, all-terrain multi-utility vehicles and GPS navigation systems to modular acquisition devices, laser range-finders, high-frequency communication sets and combat free-fall parachutes._

Experts, however, contend a tri-Service SOC is the need of the hour to holistically plan and execute "irregular warfare". Special Forces operations, of course, have to be backed by "actionable intelligence", which again is still enmeshed in turf wars in India. The armed forces have only two unified commands as of now, one in the military outpost of Andaman and Nicobar archipelago and the Strategic Forces Command to handle nuclear weapons.

Para-special forces get two new battalions - The Times of India

we should change the name "para commandos(SF)" to "para commandos special forces-infantry division".
looks like garuds and marcos are not interested in increasing the number.

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## pursuit of happiness

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nah I ain't indian.. Crying is your department.


---




* Difference of treatment between India and Pakistan by USA *
---




*Since 1947 India Has Become A World Power & Pakistan Has Become A Pathetic Mess - Why?*
--




*pakistani education vs indian education system analysis *
*Clinton's Blunt Words - YouTube*
*Clinton's Blunt Words
--
Note ; i dont want to malign pak. india is not super duper..
we have own issue and we are doing to get it..
*

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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

@Abingdonboy : Can't view your posts about SPG and CAT. Can you report or provide the source ?


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## pursuit of happiness

hkdas said:


> you forget to read the pakistani part? the mass killings,gang, tapes, torture, kidnappings, extra judicial killings are also happening in pakistani kashmir,FATA and baluchistan. and UN also had condemned that too... yes daily protest and hoisting of pakistani flags in kashmir is happening only because those protesters know that indian army never fire a bullet on the civilians and they are exploiting that.. mean time in pakistan even journalists are shot in public by ISI and your army... hell. even politician are afraid of saying anything against your army... what right do pakistan have to talk about human rights violations and rape in india ?? the pakistan army and your ISI had done a world record on raping women in short periods of time... 100,000 rapes reported in just 3 months and now you are taking about rapes in kashmir?? after all in india judiciary is successfully punish those who commits crimes, be it a military personal or civilian. in pakistan not even a single army man get punished for his crime. you pakistanis have no right to talk about the human rights violations in kashmir when your army and ISI is conducting HRV in all over balochistan FATA and other places....


-
dear with due respect..
post link to support your claim .. professinal news agency like BBC .. reuters or good indian source will do
else we are doing same thing like he is doing


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> India has a rich culture and an incredibly complex history: from the Taj Mahal, to the British East India Company, to the peaceful struggle for independence from British rule personified by Mahatma Ghandi. India has a long history of kingdoms and dynasties that have produced a storied military tradition. The strong and independent Indian military tradition continued in
> both World Wars and to this day with a modern military and an emerging relationship with the United States. In a case of what right looks like, Green Berets of the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) are developing a habitual and mutually beneficial relationship with the Indian Parachute Regiment. The history of India is colorful and proud, but it is the future of
> India that looks so promising. More specifically, the relationship between the Indian Parachute Regiment and 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) demonstrates how appropriate SOF alignment in partner-nation develop
> 
> *Why India*
> India is a growing trading partner for the United States in large measure because of open market polices instituted by India in 1990. The country has experienced an average of 6.5 percent annual growth over the last 10 years. Some additional facts taken from the CIA Fact Book in the most recent update as of May 2013 reveal: India has the fourth largest GDP in the world; the second largest work force; the second largest population, 87.5 percent of the population is under 54; and the United States is its fifth largest import partner.1 In 2009 the United States began what the State Department calls a “strategic dialogue”, bilateral talks involving energy, trade, climate change, education and counterterrorism.
> 
> Since the State Department strategic dialogue began, “Bilateral trade between our two countries has gone up 40 percent…”2 A quick analysis of the economic possibilities highlights several potential opportunities. India represents a huge potential consumer market for American goods. Thanks to a large English speaking and educated class, foreign direct investment could open up manufacturing possibilities and provide an alternative to Chinese-based factories for American corporations. The picture is not at all perfect as India does indeed face challenges inhibiting continued growth: sprawling poverty, government corruption and control over the free-market system pose risks to corporations wishing to invest. Despite the risks, India can provide important economic opportunities for the United States and for the people of India. Just as economic ties are a part of the strategic dialogue and beneficial for India and the United States, mutually supporting efforts in counterterrorism could also benefit both countries.
> 
> Border disputes and terrorist attacks are constant reminders of the remnants of colonialism and extremism for the government of India. There are numerous disputed areas, stretching from the eastern border of Afghanistan across the Kashmir to the Arunachal Pradesh area bordering Myanmar and the large disputed area known as the Line of Actual Control to the north bordering China. The most important and strategically contested area is the Kashmir where India, Pakistan and China each claim all or portions of the area. T*he current status of forces has Pakistan occupying Kashmir to the north bordering Afghanistan and India retaining the Jammu and Kashmir area to the south bordering India proper.* The deeply held convictions of the dispute between Pakistan and India in the Kashmir can be easily identified; J&K is approximately 77 percent Muslim but holds many religious holy sites for Buddhism and Hinduism. Religious convictions aside, a more pragmatic look at J&K crystallizes the economic impact the area has for both countries. Water rights are a major issue between India and Pakistan as it relates to the Indus River basin, the largest source of water for Pakistan, which originates in the Himalaya’s of Indian controlled J&K.
> 
> As a result, India has struggled with an ongoing counterinsurgency throughout J&K. The most feared arm of the insurgency
> opposing Indian rule in J&K is Lashkare- Taiba. Initially focused on opposition to Soviet expansionism in Afghanistan, it is
> believed that LeTs current goal is to create a liberated united Kashmir. LeT is well known for recruiting and radicalizing members of the Islamic faith to join the fighting in Kashmir and to conduct terrorist attacks against India. The most spectacular and deadly was the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, where 12 coordinated attacks over three days killed 166 people and wounded 308. The United States designated the LeT a terrorist group in 2003, which makes targeting this group of mutual interest to the United States and India. In the defense of Pakistan’s claims to J&K, the UN mandated self determination
> vote contained in UNSCR’s 47 and 80 relating to the Kashmir region has not taken place. As described by a paper written by
> Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a retired member of the Pakistani Army, “From a Pakistani perspective, Kashmir is the core issue and
> the root of tension with India. It maintains that India is in unlawful occupation of J&K and it is the right of the people of the state to determine their future in accordance with their aspirations.”3 Negotiations between India and Pakistan have produced minor agreements, but a permanent solution is still elusive. One of the chief fears of Indians at large as it relates to the Kashmir, is that as the U.S. draws down in Afghanistan, the Indians suspect increased insurgent activity from hardened Afghanistan fighters. The border dispute between India and Pakistan, where Pakistan is a critical U. S. partner in the fight against al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, makes the U. S. relationship with India and Pakistan diplomatically challenging in that
> cooperation from both countries is needed to help combat regional terror groups.
> 
> In addition to the challenges previously discussed, China also has claims in the Kashmir region, specifically Aksai Chin. An
> article by Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi in 2013 describes it succinctly “The origins of the dispute date back to the British Raj which failed to clearly demarcate its border between its colony and China. By and large, its border issue revolves around two main boundary designs that have been put forward by the British. One of them, the Johnson Line, places Aksai Chin under Indian control, where as the other, the McDonald Line, classifies it as Chinese territory.” 4 There are several key reasons why the Chinese find the Kashmir strategically important. First, highway G219 runs along China’s western border and is the only Line of Communication connecting Xinjiang province in the north to Tibet in the south, it transverses Aksai Chin turning this disputed area into key terrain for national defense.
> Secondly, and perhaps more importantly Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New
> Delhi 2013, postulates that in the event of potential conflicts that bind up sea lanes, China needs an alternative land route to
> shipping lanes. That route would lead out of Aksai Chin, across the Kashmir and down through Pakistan to reach ports in the Arabian Sea.5 The potential partnership between China and Pakistan will make J&K vitally important to India in the event hostilities break out with China.
> 
> “The U.S.-India relationship is the strongest it has been since India gained its independence in 1947. A strengthened U.S.-India strategic partnership is imperative to achieve U.S. national interests including securing regional security, strengthening the international trading system, protecting shared domains, countering terrorism and bolstering international non proliferation.” — Adm. Samuel J. Locklear III, PACOM Commander, testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, April 9, 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> *Military Engagements*
> There is a growing and mutually beneficial military relationship between the United States and India. A quick look at a map of
> the United States Pacific Command area of responsibility reveals the extent to which it is covered by water. This places the U.S. 7th Fleet in the forefront of U.S. presence in the Pacific and an important leader in partnernation development. As early as 1992, the United States, Japan, Australia, Singapore and India have conducted Exercise Malabar. *The U.S. 7th Fleet is the American beneficiary of this exercise and in 2012 Navy SEALs participated with the Indian Navy Marine Commando’s, a natural SEAL alignment for SOF-to-SOF engagements. *This same type of natural alignment also exists between the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and the Indian Parachute Regiment where Green Berets are the force of choice.
> 
> The Parachute Regiment of the Indian Army is organized into 10 PARA Battalions, seven of which are designated as Special
> Forces Battalions. The genesis for the development of the SF PARA Battalions was to create counterinsurgency experts and to provide a deep-strike capability. Their other core missions closely mirror those of U.S. Green Berets.* An Indian PARA Battalion is organized into four troops consisting of 20 to 24 men in each troop. Each troop is organized into six-man
> teams lead by an officer. Each Soldier has a specific skill, very similar to our military occupational specialties, where each man is trained in a primary skill: navigation, demolitions, communications, weapons or medical and they are also cross trained in a secondary skill. The SF Battalions are expected to operate in high altitude, mountainous terrain; therefore every Soldier is trained in mountaineering. They can be deployed as a troop or as small operational teams.* During Exercise Vajra Prahar 2011,
> two troops from the 1st and 4th PARA (SF) performed extremely well conducting troop level direct-action training missions.
> 
> Vajra Prahar is an annual bilateral exercise between the United States and India that involves conventional and SOF engagements. In 2011 Alpha Company, 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) hosted Vajra Prahar in the United States mainland, a significant milestone for the governments of India and the United States. The Company sponsored two troops from the 1st PARA and 4th PARA (SF) respectively at Joint Base Lewis McChord and Yakima Training Center. The company leadership served as the lead agent for planning and execution along with three of the company’s ODAs who participated in and conducted the training. Alpha Company leadership led the exercise through all phases of the
> operation. It began with the reservation of resources at JBLM and YTC to include: ranges, training areas, billeting, sustainment and air assets, moved into execution at both JBLM and YTC and finally redeployment back to India. The company split its training at two sites approximately 170 miles apart, which required a ground convoy of over 100
> personnel with weapons and equipment to conduct two weeks of rigorous close-quarter combat and aerial sniper training. As part of the newly formed Alpha Company validation requirements, the unit established an AOB headquarters to orchestrate the round robin training and support the culmination event by providing C2 for the PARA troops and ODAs on a combined direct-action training mission. Alpha Company concluded the exercise with a layout of SOF-specific equipment and attendance to the 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) activation ceremony. This exercise was a unique opportunity for the 1st PARA (SF), who brought elements of the battalion command to provide leadership, planning and command and control, to take advantage of the great training facilities at both JBLM and YTC. Fortunately for 1st PARA (SF), Alpha Company was able to incorporate 4/160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the premier SOF rotary-wing asset, to make the exercise a world-class training event. The company sergeant major during the exercise, Sergeant Major Klingenberg, agrees “There was a huge benefit for the Indian participants as they rarely leave the country as part of a JCET program. They departed with an introduction to new techniques in close-quarters battle, fast-rope insertion and extraction system and sniper marksmanship
> to include aerial sniper training. We also conducted a 70-man combined hit on a target at an urban-training site complete with FRIES infil from 4/160 Special Operations Aviations Regiment. This was a rare opportunity for the Indians to participate in
> this scale of an operation.”
> 
> As part of the Special Operations Command Pacific Country Action Plan, the 1st SFG(A) conducts numerous JCETs to India annually. The engagements are almost exclusively with the Indian Parachute Regiment. One of the most significant elements of the relationship is the ability to grow capability, to build, not only expertise at the Soldier level but collective skills at the troop level and higher. This correct SOF-to-SOF alignment occurs in other nations in the PACOM AOR and is another example of what right looks like. By aligning with a specific unit, in this case the Indian Parachute Regiment, ODAs can move well beyond individual Soldier tasks and work on collective tasks, battalion long-range planning, embedding of enablers as examples, at the tactical and operational levels.
> 
> In 2012, Alpha Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st SFG(A) deployed with three ODAs on a JCET conducted with the 1st PARA at the Indian Special Forces Training Facility at Nahan Cantonment, India. This was a mutually beneficial training event where both units alternated instructors to conduct combined training. *The skill level of the Indian instructors was first rate as highlighted in the after-action review by Alpha Company, “Indian SOF has very knowledgeable instructors and good instructional materials leading to well taught classes.* Transcending Indian operations, USSF should continually assess their partner-nations’ expertise and levy lessons-learned briefs and case studies to not only build combat effectiveness but also build rapport.” Because of the experience and expertise of both SOF units, a true peer- to-peer style exchange of training and TTPs occurred. By aligning with the right unit, building a habitual relationship, establishing peer-to-peer relationships that create trust and respect, tangible and measurable gains at organizational effectiveness can be realized. A backward glance towards Iraq and Afghanistan and the Green Beret creation of and partnerships with Special Weapons and Tactics and SOF units are examples of the right SOF-to-SOF alignment and how establishing habitual relationships can produce very effective units.
> 
> 
> 
> *Future Roles*
> In India, the United States could have another strong partner with mutually supporting interests in economic development, regional stability and combating terrorism. As senior U.S. policy makers look East in the pivot to Asia, in terms of the case for India and future partnerships with the United States, the future does hold promise. While 1st SFG(A) is one small piece of U.S. efforts with India, their role in building capability with the Indian Parachute Regiment and its role in counterterrorism and counterinsurgency efforts for the country of India will have strategic implications. The economic opportunities for both nations could shape the balance of power in South East Asia and provide strategic impacts on world markets. Finally, a mutually supporting effort in combating terror in the remote and historically volatile region of the Kashmir could help create space and time for the fledgling government of Afghanistan to find its identity and move forward as the United States begins to pull its forces and resources back home.
> 
> 
> Command Sergeant Major Greggory L. Hayes is the command sergeant major for 4th Bn., 1st Special Forces Group (A). He has served in several capacities in the PACOM AOR, serving as the Demining Coordinator-Cambodia, serving as a team sergeant to ODA 172, 3rd Bn., 1st Special Forces Group in support of Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines. He has a bachelor’s in psychology and a master’s in business administration from Webster University.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------
> 
> As an aside, Vajra Prahar is held every year by the PARA (SF) and Green Berets and had been covered quite a bit in the earlier editions but since the 2011 exercise nothing has come out regarding them, the 2012 and 2013 exercises took place but there is nothing to show for it as far as the public are concerned- interesting to anyone else? The US who is normally very good at covering these sort of bilateral exercises has not put out ANYTHING on the matter nor has the Indian side.


Link please.


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## hkdas

pursuit of happiness said:


> -
> dear with due respect..
> post link to support your claim .. professinal news agency like BBC .. reuters or good indian source will do
> else we are doing same thing like he is doing




kk bro. some of the details are from the books

human right violations of pakistan army and ISI:
BBC News - Mystery of Balochistan disappearances
Rape during the Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
Human rights violations in Balochistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Human Rights violation in Pakistan | #Alertpak#
Bangladesh :: The Pakistani period, 1947-71 -- Encyclopedia Britannica
Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report - Chapter 2
U.S. power and human rights violations in Pakistan: An early chapter
Human Rights Pakistan Analysis -

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> you forget to read the pakistani part? the mass killings,gang, tapes, torture, kidnappings, extra judicial killings are also happening in pakistani kashmir,FATA and baluchistan. and UN also had condemned that too... yes daily protest and hoisting of pakistani flags in kashmir is happening only because those protesters know that indian army never fire a bullet on the civilians and they are exploiting that.. mean time in pakistan even journalists are shot in public by ISI and your army... hell. even politician are afraid of saying anything against your army... what right do pakistan have to talk about human rights violations and rape in india ?? the pakistan army and your ISI had done a world record on raping women in short periods of time... 100,000 rapes reported in just 3 months and now you are taking about rapes in kashmir?? after all in india judiciary is successfully punish those who commits crimes, be it a military personal or civilian. in pakistan not even a single army man get punished for his crime. you pakistanis have no right to talk about the human rights violations in kashmir when your army and ISI is conducting HRV in all over balochistan FATA and other places....



Haha looks like you are a "survivor" of evil Pakistani attrocities ??? ... So much shit .. Bollywood should hire you for some third class movie ... And just to "own" you .. I suggest you read a book (I know you are "jahil n gawar")... But still try reading it ...

Dead reckoning by your very own sarmila Bose the grand daughter of subhash Chandra Bose ... Tht is enough to make idiots like you shut the .. Up for good..

As for india punishing rapists,killers n other nutjobs oh yeah .. We can see tht in several well publicised incidents like shopian, gang rapes n killings or konan poshpura ga grapes b killings etc etc .....or N.E .. Google images shows pics of NE women protesting naked with banners like indian army rape us !!!

How many punished ? Oops .. I'm asking for too much ..

And LMAO @FATA,Azad Kashmir n Baluchistan .. Lol . Stop wet dreaming child ..



hkdas said:


> kk bro. some of the details are from the books
> 
> human right violations of pakistan army and ISI:
> BBC News - Mystery of Balochistan disappearances
> Rape during the Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Human rights violations in Balochistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Human Rights violation in Pakistan | #Alertpak#
> Bangladesh :: The Pakistani period, 1947-71 -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report - Chapter 2
> U.S. power and human rights violations in Pakistan: An early chapter
> Human Rights Pakistan Analysis -



Apart from missin persons who were actually militants and count about less than 100 men as per the supreme four of Pakistan record

.. Id LOLOLOLOL on faggoty sources like Wikipedia,etc etc...

And do read Hamoodur Rahman commission report ... Idiots like you are too dumb to even know what it actually says .. But than again only if you know you wouldn't post them...

Dead reckoning SARMILA BOSE.



pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Difference of treatment between India and Pakistan by USA *
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Since 1947 India Has Become A World Power & Pakistan Has Become A Pathetic Mess - Why?*
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *pakistani education vs indian education system analysis *
> *Clinton's Blunt Words - YouTube*
> *Clinton's Blunt Words*
> *--*
> *Note ; i dont want to malign pak. india is not super duper..*
> *we have own issue and we are doing to get it..*


No YT..


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## gslv mk3

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So you highlighted the dumbest fantasy to prove what ? The righteous India is is condemned by UNHRC,NGOs,human rights groups for attrocities like mass killings,gang tapes,torture,kidnappings,extra judicial killings in IOK (which is considered a disputed region by UN)... Daily strikes,protests n shooting of civilians during those is a norm .. And Pakistani flags are hoisted in the capital city of Srinagar ?... Way to go..... Also India doesn't allow foriegn media,UN,HRGs to enter IOK ..and keeps lacs of forces ... Making IOK the most militarised zone in the entire world ..A prison ....So much for occupation etc





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> am very eager to know
> When we rape n massacre Hindus next time.. You willing?



@Chak Bamu @Aeronaut


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## DESERT FIGHTER

gslv mk3 said:


> @Chak Bamu @Aeronaut



Only if the accusations were true .. Than so must this be..

Apart from tht .. Jaisi shakal waisa tamacha.


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## gslv mk3

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Only if the accusations were true .. Than so must this be..
> 
> Apart from tht .. Jaisi shakal waisa tamacha.



Whatever you posted is OT here.Case closed.


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## pursuit of happiness

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Only if the accusations were true .. Than so must this be..
> 
> Apart from tht .. Jaisi shakal waisa tamacha.


--
Jaisi shakal waisa tamacha
in that case .. 
Tum mooh dikahe ke kabil nahi rahaoge ..

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Link please.





hkdas said:


> bro, can you post the link??




Excuse me:

The United States Army | SWCS

It's from the US Army's JFK Special warfare centre and school

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Excuse me:
> 
> The United States Army | SWCS
> 
> It's from the US Army's JFK Special warfare centre and school



You are excused....asking for link is not an offence.I wanted to check out the website where it was published.

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> Maybe they donot want others to know what they together are training for .....


Indeed, my thinking but It raises the question what exactly are they doing?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Excuse me:
> 
> The United States Army | SWCS
> 
> It's from the US Army's JFK Special warfare centre and school


The United States Army | SWCS

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## hkdas

para sf form 3:04 to 10:24-- @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @gslv mk3 @pursuit of happiness @Unknowncommando
you guys will like this video

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## hkdas

english version...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> para sf form 3:04 to 10:24-- @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @gslv mk3 @pursuit of happiness @Unknowncommando
> you guys will like this video




I wish I could give you a 100 thanks for that.

In this video PARA SF operators who had done under cover ops and were active in Kashmir talk about life in SF and daily challenges. 

A SF officer further goes and says that Para SF deployed here has 50% of them as trained combat divers which gives them a great advantage. (The Para officer himself was wearing combat diver badge)

Further, another officer goes on to add that having combat diver amongst their team gives them a great advantage of helping civilians like was in his case in which in an incident he managed to save 50 civilians from drowning.

This video is a solid prrof to what I have said 100 of times here that Para SF is the most active force in Kashmir and they DO NOT call MARCOS for any help whatsoever even in operations around water bodies.It is the Marcos which requests to be a part of such missions or the Marcos works independently but around Wular only.

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> para sf form 3:04 to 10:24-- @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @gslv mk3 @pursuit of happiness @Unknowncommando
> you guys will like this video


Why does this video look like it was shot in the 1980s??



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I wish I could give you a 100 thanks for that.
> 
> In this video PARA SF operators who had done under cover ops and were active in Kashmir talk about life in SF and daily challenges.
> 
> A SF officer further goes and says that Para SF deployed here has 50% of them as trained combat divers which gives them a great advantage. (The Para officer himself was wearing combat diver badge)
> 
> Further, another officer goes on to add that having combat diver amongst their team gives them a great advantage of helping civilians like was in his case in which in an incident he managed to save 50 civilians from drowning.
> 
> This video is a solid prrof to what I have said 100 of times here that Para SF is the most active force in Kashmir and they DO NOT call MARCOS for any help whatsoever even in operations around water bodies.It is the Marcos which requests to be a part of such missions or the Marcos works independently but around Wular only.


Bro, could you provide more details about what the operators had to say? I managed to get some of what they said but my Hindi is pretty poor


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Why does this video look like it was shot in the 1980s??
> 
> 
> Bro, could you provide more details about what the operators had to say? I managed to get some of what they said but my Hindi is pretty poor



Apart from what i already mentioned they talk about why they choose to be in a SF which is the best and how they are proud to be a part of Para SF.How they are careful to protect civilians..how during undercover ops they are very careful about even the route they choose..how challenging the life is...

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> .how during undercover ops


It's funny that I've mentioned that PARA (SF) undertake undercover ops in the valley before but members from a _certain_ nation have refused to accept such things take place. According to them the beards of the SF operators is just because restrictions on appearances are more lax in foreword areas.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I wish I could give you a 100 thanks for that.
> 
> In this video PARA SF operators who had done under cover ops and were active in Kashmir talk about life in SF and daily challenges.
> 
> A SF officer further goes and says that Para SF deployed here has 50% of them as trained combat divers which gives them a great advantage. (The Para officer himself was wearing combat diver badge)
> 
> Further, another officer goes on to add that having combat diver amongst their team gives them a great advantage of helping civilians like was in his case in which in an incident he managed to save 50 civilians from drowning.
> 
> This video is a solid prrof to what I have said 100 of times here that Para SF is the most active force in Kashmir and they DO NOT call MARCOS for any help whatsoever even in operations around water bodies.It is the Marcos which requests to be a part of such missions or the Marcos works independently but around Wular only.


bro, no offence but AFAIK these places are nowhere near Wular. the last pics is marcos in srinagar( i get that pic from FB and it that page too some people from kashmir says it is srinagar).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, no offence but AFAIK these places are nowhere near Wular. the last pics is marcos in srinagar( i get that pic from FB and it that page too some people from kashmir says it is srinagar).



No offence taken bro..First 2 pics are of the valley in Srinagar if you get a chance to visit.

Third pic is of Srinagar city.

Wular is near Srinagar.

When I talk about Kashmir I talk about Doda, Kupwara, Handwara, Lolab, Rajouri (where beheadins took place)..Srinagar is no where even close to this place bro.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> It's funny that I've mentioned that PARA (SF) undertake undercover ops in the valley before but members from a _certain_ nation have refused to accept such things take place. According to them the beards of the SF operators is just because restrictions on appearances are more lax in foreword areas.



then they may miss these pics of para sf...

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No offence taken bro..First 2 pics are of the valley in Srinagar if you get a chance to visit.
> 
> Third pic is of Srinagar city.
> 
> Wular is near Srinagar.
> 
> When I talk about Kashmir I talk about Doda, Kupwara, Handwara, Lolab, Rajouri (where beheadins took place)..Srinagar is no where even close to this place bro.


bro do you know where Chehar village in kashmir is?? is that village is near Wular??
Marco AADESH KUMAR get Shaurya Chakra for his action in an joint 9 para,27 RR and marcos ops in that place.



> Marco AADESH KUMAR being awarded Shaurya Chakra.
> 
> Based on intelligence inputs of presence of 4-5 militants in Chehar village located at an altitude of approximately 2500m above sea level,a joint operation was launched by a team of 9 ParaSF ,27 RR and Marcos to neutralize the militants.
> 
> On 13 December 2012 on completion of 48 hr surveillance mission the team was tasked to return to the detachment and MARCOS team was tasked to carry out a search of a nearby location from where a satellite intercept had been obtained.Suddenly the Marcos team came under heavy fire from automatic weapons and grenades from terrorists hiding in the thick vegetation . Realizing the danger to the team,Marco Adesh Kumar with utter disregard to personal safety charged towards militant group firing rapidly from his LMG Negev.During the charge Marco Adesh was hit by militant bullets in stomach and legs.Despite grievous injuries and excessive bleeding he continued the charge towards the militants.In the process not only the enemy fire was suppressed but one hardcore militant was also killed.
> 
> Marco Adesh Kumar displayed professional acumen, comradeship and raw courage in fighting the terrorists.



another one:
Press Information Bureau English Releases

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> It's funny that I've mentioned that PARA (SF) undertake undercover ops in the valley before but members from a _certain_ nation have refused to accept such things take place. According to them the beards of the SF operators is just because restrictions on appearances are more lax in foreword areas.



Says who...its a pity that I and many others cant share about cross LOC raids that Para SF have carried out...I was the first one to report here even before The Hindu reported that Para SF did carry out beheadings on Pakistani Army posts and many a times they have left a message written in blood in urdu langauge about giving them a bigger dose of their own medicine..In one operation which my source talks about 16 Pakistan Army regulars were killed and beheaded (2 of them alive) by Para SF.

obviously you cannot prove it here and the funny part is that casualties were reported by Pak media but on the eastern border not western to save face.

That is why I am impartial and talk highly about Para.The troops you saw on Discovery show belong to a special formation of operators ready for cross border raids ready 24/7 and they even have a codename...all of them are Para and have high tech equipements.



hkdas said:


> bro do you know where Chehar village in kashmir is?? is that village is near Wular??
> Marco AADESH KUMAR get Shaurya Chakra for his action in an joint 9 para,27 RR and marcos ops in that place.
> 
> 
> 
> another one:
> Press Information Bureau English Releases



Ya bro..it is located at a distance of 25 kms from Srinagar city.

Marcos took permission to be a part of this particular operation along with RR and Para SF...This brave young officer proved what Marcos are worth in this operation.

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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> obviously you cannot prove it here and the funny part is that *casualties were reported by Pak media but on the eastern border not western to save face*.



It's the other way around ... right .

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I will share a incident with you guys which happened a few months ago.

Me and my friends have a superbike group and we mostly ride together in Delhi.

One morning we were riding around the International airport at 5 am.So my friends who are always high on adrenalin turned into a blind turn and and zoomed into the highway at 180-220 kms/hr.

I do not ride this fast on Indian roads so I was taking the turn slowly and enjoying the cool breeze hitting my face (wasnt wearing helmet).

So heres the part of interest...as soon as I got into the blind turn I saw round about 100 men running towards me.

I initially didnt pay attention to them but when I got closer I saw NSG patches all over their black uniform.

I was wowed at that moment.The trainees were all sweaty and looked really tired (I guess after a long run in the morning)and were looking at my bike.

They were accompanied by guards in camo pants and sort of creamish t shirt with NSG logo wearing the exactly same helmet as they do nowadays and carrying AK 47.

This was with me passing them and them running against my direction.I reduced the speed so I could see more.The trainees were having a look at my bike but the case was reverse with the guard.

I swear I was looking with awe but the guards were not liking it and were so alert. With their eyes staring mine and their fingers close to the trigger I decided not to do any thing stupid.

I initially thought of giving them a salute or thumbsup but the way the guards were I felt like its better if I countinue without trying anything funny.

So now I reached the centre of this formation.Now I could see guys in PT dress and holding MP5.Soon followed a white Safari which was a jammer and to be honest I have seen a lot BPTs but never have I seen a jammer or such alertness for BPTs.

Then I reached the end where instructors were running (indian only) wearing tshirts from bomb squad logo to SF/Commando/foreign unit logos.

The instructors looked fit and aged.By this time the group had ended and then again followed these men armed with Aks and staring me like stay away from us.I was passing a smile at everyone but these guards were very unfriendly like all my previous interactions.
Then followed some more gypsy in white and operators in civil driving it.

It was a hell of an experience but which I decided to wait a few months before posting.

A few kms later..I rejoined my group for a cup of tea on the NH..I asked them"Did you guys see men in black uniform running..You know who they were?"

To my shock guys belonging to various profession and successful in their fields replied..Army..Marcos..CRPF..COBRA..and one said Black cat.

I was like..fcking great.You know what is the name of Aishwaryas child but you do not know about peoole who save your ***.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Why does this video look like it was shot in the 1980s??
> 
> 
> Bro, could you provide more details about what the operators had to say? I managed to get some of what they said but my Hindi is pretty poor




Forgot to add one thing....The officer said that it takes them 1 year of training before they are deployed in the valley.

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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

hkdas said:


> then they may miss these pics of para sf...



Para SF ... really ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Para SF ... really ?



I was the first to post this picture here..You wanna know the source of this pic...Its the book Indian Special Forces written by Lt Gen PC Katoch..ex SF...and i dont think a Lt Gen can be wrong.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was the first to post this picture here..You wanna know the source of this pic...Its the book Indian Special Forces written by Lt Gen PC Katoch..ex SF...and i dont think a Lt Gen can be wrong.


ya.. the book was online for free(in google book)...but now they withdraw it... have that book with me... the books name is "indian special forces: history and future"

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## Unknowncommando

SPG

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I will share a incident with you guys which happened a few months ago.
> 
> Me and my friends have a superbike group and we mostly ride together in Delhi.
> 
> One morning we were riding around the International airport at 5 am.So my friends who are always high on adrenalin turned into a blind turn and and zoomed into the highway at 180-220 kms/hr.
> 
> I do not ride this fast on Indian roads so I was taking the turn slowly and enjoying the cool breeze hitting my face (wasnt wearing helmet).
> 
> So heres the part of interest...as soon as I got into the blind turn I saw round about 100 men running towards me.
> 
> I initially didnt pay attention to them but when I got closer I saw NSG patches all over their black uniform.
> 
> I was wowed at that moment.The trainees were all sweaty and looked really tired (I guess after a long run in the morning)and were looking at my bike.
> 
> They were accompanied by guards in camo pants and sort of creamish t shirt with NSG logo wearing the exactly same helmet as they do nowadays and carrying AK 47.
> 
> This was with me passing them and them running against my direction.I reduced the speed so I could see more.The trainees were having a look at my bike but the case was reverse with the guard.
> 
> I swear I was looking with awe but the guards were not liking it and were so alert. With their eyes staring mine and their fingers close to the trigger I decided not to do any thing stupid.
> 
> I initially thought of giving them a salute or thumbsup but the way the guards were I felt like its better if I countinue without trying anything funny.
> 
> So now I reached the centre of this formation.Now I could see guys in PT dress and holding MP5.Soon followed a white Safari which was a jammer and to be honest I have seen a lot BPTs but never have I seen a jammer or such alertness for BPTs.
> 
> Then I reached the end where instructors were running (indian only) wearing tshirts from bomb squad logo to SF/Commando/foreign unit logos.
> 
> The instructors looked fit and aged.By this time the group had ended and then again followed these men armed with Aks and staring me like stay away from us.I was passing a smile at everyone but these guards were very unfriendly like all my previous interactions.
> Then followed some more gypsy in white and operators in civil driving it.
> 
> It was a hell of an experience but which I decided to wait a few months before posting.
> 
> A few kms later..I rejoined my group for a cup of tea on the NH..I asked them"Did you guys see men in black uniform running..You know who they were?"
> 
> To my shock guys belonging to various profession and successful in their fields replied..Army..Marcos..CRPF..COBRA..and one said Black cat.
> 
> I was like..fcking great.You know what is the name of Aishwaryas child but you do not know about peoole who save your ***.


Wow man! what encounters you are privileged enough to have!

The way you describe it seems the guards were really "switched on". Crazy that a jammer accompanies recruits on BPTs such as this though.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 44072
> 
> SPG


Not Glock pistols- FN Five-Sevens.


----------



## Abingdonboy

@sandy_3126 what's your opinion on the FN Five-Seven? I've heard some pretty incredible stuff about it- fires a rifle round (5.7), meaning the stopping power is enormous as well as having considerable range and has less recoil than a traditional 9mm pistol. For the job the SPG does seems pretty ideal for both the CAT guys and the inner cordon guys who carry it under their suits. And as an added bonus the SPG's P-90s fire the same round.

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## MilSpec

Abingdonboy said:


> @sandy_3126 what's your opinion on the FN Five-Seven? I've heard some pretty incredible stuff about it- fires a rifle round (5.7), meaning the stopping power is enormous as well as having considerable range and has less recoil than a traditional 9mm pistol. For the job the SPG does seems pretty ideal for both the CAT guys and the inner cordon guys who carry it under their suits. And as an added bonus the SPG's P-90s fire the same round.



FN Five seven is an over hyped round. As a rifle round it is a very weak round, but as a pistol round it is a high velocity stinging round. 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 acp are bigger short range round which have decent to a very heavy terminal ballistics. look at a 22 magnum round.
The closest comparative round to 5-7 is a the 22 magnum with 30 grain bullet.

22 WMR (5.7 mm x 26.8mm)
30 gr (2 g) HP2,300 ft/s (700 m/s)322 ft·lbf (437 J)

5.7 x 28 mm
2.0 g (31 gr), 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s), 467 J (344 ft·lb)


Marginal cost difference, 5.7 sells about $28 for 50 rounds
compared to .22WMR @ $20 for 50 rounds

Interestingly standard magazine on a Five Seven is 20 rounds and on a PMR 30 is 30 Rounds.....

*PMR 30





Five -Seven





*

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## Abingdonboy

sandy_3126 said:


> FN Five seven is an over hyped round. As a rifle round it is a very weak round, but as a pistol round it is a high velocity stinging round. 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 acp are bigger short range round which have decent to a very heavy terminal ballistics. look at a 22 magnum round.
> The closest comparative round to 5-7 is a the 22 magnum with 30 grain bullet.
> 
> 22 WMR (5.7 mm x 26.8mm)
> 30 gr (2 g) HP2,300 ft/s (700 m/s)322 ft·lbf (437 J)
> 
> 5.7 x 28 mm
> 2.0 g (31 gr), 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s), 467 J (344 ft·lb)
> 
> 
> Marginal cost difference, 5.7 sells about $28 for 50 rounds
> compared to .22WMR @ $20 for 50 rounds
> 
> Interestingly standard magazine on a Five Seven is 20 rounds and on a PMR 30 is 30 Rounds.....
> 
> *PMR 30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Five -Seven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


So would a .45 cal pack more of a punch in closer ranges? And what do you have to say about the 5.7's armour piercing capabilities?

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## MilSpec

Abingdonboy said:


> So would a .45 cal pack more of a punch in closer ranges? And what do you have to say about the 5.7's armour piercing capabilities?


I doubt it's armor piercing ability, with a steel tip even a 17hmr will penetrate armor. it is about dissipating the available energy in the area of impact. a high velocity bullet with small diameter and shape will do the same. It's like throwing a dart compared to throwing a brick. (Both have separate uses)
Remember that 22 wmr is a hunting round and not designed to penetrate armor. Smilar argument as the 7.62x39and 5.56 nato..

not many handguns are designed to penetrate armor, if so very few..... Five seven can penetrate level 2 armor at certain range, but once you exceed the range, the round is of not much use.

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## Abingdonboy

sandy_3126 said:


> I doubt it's armor piercing ability, with a steel tip even a 17hmr will penetrate armor. it is about dissipating the available energy in the area of impact. a high velocity bullet with small diameter and shape will do the same. It's like throwing a dart compared to throwing a brick. (Both have separate uses)
> Remember that 22 wmr is a hunting round and not designed to penetrate armor. Smilar argument as the 7.62x39and 5.56 nato..
> 
> not many handguns are designed to penetrate armor, if so very few..... Five seven can penetrate level 2 armor at certain range, but once you exceed the range, the round is of not much use.


Hmm, a lot of what I've read/seen on the Five-seven seems to have been exaggerated then. Still seems like a pretty decent secondary weapon to a 5.56mm rifle (for CAT with their FN F-2000s) and an accurate/controllable primary weapon for the inner cordon with some good take down power albeit with a limited capacity as standard (20 rounds).


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Wow man! what encounters you are privileged enough to have!
> 
> The way you describe it seems the guards were really "switched on". Crazy that a jammer accompanies recruits on BPTs such as this though.
> .



Ya I am lucky to have this encounter after I got to share a train seat with a SPG Instructor.

About the jammer..it was a white safari with big red and blue lights on top and guys sitting inside wearing khakhee dress.This safari is exactly the same as it was a few years ago in PM's convoy.

The guys were so switched on that they didnt let any civilians run or walk close to them.

They were wearing camo trousers, cream NSG logo t-shirt, BPJ and helmet the same which the NSG wears but looked privileged because hardly anyone of them was clean shaven with short hair but everyone else including the instructor had clean shave and a neat hairstyle.Secondly their body language was very different and they looked on top of the game.They looked very confident and very different from the lot.

The way they were holding their AK was very casual but their eyes told a different story.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They were wearing camo trousers, cream NSG logo t-shirt, BPJ and helmet the same which the NSG wears but looked privileged because hardly anyone of them was clean shaven with short hair but everyone else including the instructor had clean shave and a neat hairstyle.Secondly their body language was very different and they looked on top of the game.They looked very confident and very different from the lot.
> 
> The way they were holding their AK was very casual but their eyes told a different story.


Why the need for such security for a simple BPT for recruits?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Why the need for such security for a simple BPT for recruits?



Maybe because NSG is popular and such BPT marches can be easy target for terrorists.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Maybe because NSG is popular and such BPT marches can be easy target for terrorists.


Very true, better to be safe than sorry especially in the light of what happens in India's Western border where security forces have become prime targets for terrorist scum not to mention after 26/11 the NSG has more than likely become a primary target for any wannabes.


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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 44498


Look like very old pics.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 44499



Not a member of Indian SOFs at all, a PTK trainer.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 44500



CRPF COBRA 



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 44501
> 
> View attachment 44502



Very old pics of NSG.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 44506




Nice


----------



## Abingdonboy

Convoy rehearsal underway ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit in Nagpur on Aug 20, 2014.


The SPG transports the 760Lis for PM travel around India and foreign countries in Indian Air Froce cargo aircraft, where necessary they will also send their own Jammers and associated vehicles if the host state/nation does not have the adequate vehicles. Seen in the picture are local vehicles provided by the local/state police of Nagpur/Maharashtra. The X5s of the SPG almost never leave the national capital of India.



(note that's the "old" F01 BMW 760Li)


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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How are yours doin? Look at your language I doubt any good..



I'm doing good and I was gonna delete it anyway.It was just to show you that it doesn't feel good when you say you wanna rape and massacre the people of a certain religion or nationality.

Now I am deleting that post.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Omega007 said:


> I'm doing good and I was gonna delete it anyway.It was just to show you that it doesn't feel good when you say you wanna rape and massacre the people of a certain religion or nationality.
> 
> Now I am deleting that post.



These ar you literally accuse us of without proof ... I'm just repeatin your own words... Now coming back to mothers n sisters I could very well abuse yours .. But tht wouldn't make me any better than you.


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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These ar you literally accuse us of without proof ... I'm just repeatin your own words... Now coming back to mothers n sisters I could very well abuse yours .. But tht wouldn't make me any better than you.



Now when or where did I accuse you or anyone of your nationality..........just show me the post!!

And like I said,it was just to show you that it hurts.

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## hkdas

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=753259414752116




marcos at 9:30?? UCP is used by army sf in indra 2014 exercise for testing it. but i don't thimk they will use in para training school. looks like marcos to me....

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=753259414752116
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marcos at 9:30?? UCP is used by army sf in indra 2014 exercise for testing it. but i don't thimk they will use in para training school. looks like marcos to me....



Youtube link??


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Youtube link??







PARAs slithering down from a HAL ALH Dhruv during Army Day celebrations.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=753259414752116
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marcos at 9:30?? UCP is used by army sf in indra 2014 exercise for testing it. but i don't thimk they will use in para training school. looks like marcos to me....


Marcos and Garuds go to Agra for their 1st jump.


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Marcos and Garuds go to Agra for their 1st jump.


yes, not only them SFF also trained in para training center in agra. that parachute in that video is an advance one used for jumping from 10,000m height with heavy load.

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## hkdas

@Abingdonboy

highlights from the video:
SPG:
* their* BJ is capable of stopping rounds fired from AK 47 at 10m *distance
* primary weapons are fn2000 and FN P90
* secondary weapon is Five-seven pistol
* lightweight BJ, bullet proof nee pads, all weather gloves , tactical eyewears and non skid shoes
* *counter assault team(CAT) formed in 2008 *but 1st seen in august 15 2010.
* _SPG is modeled on US secret service _
* in *spg the mental alertness, and the ability to react fast in an emergency is checked during selection process *
* t*he standard of equipments used by SPG is same as the US secret service*
* before the creation of CAT, SPg uses mp-5, uzi as their primary weapon
* SPG is trained in* Krav Maga martial artist.*
* spg is in three teams* 1st is EOD, 2nd is anti sabotage team and 3rd one is close protection team*(which includes CAT, snipers and bodyguards)
* personals are selected from *state police, CRPF, ITBP and CISF.*
* rejection rate during selection process is 60%
** from those passes the selection the best of best are selected for counter assault team(CAT)*
* *those who are selected will trained with US secret service *

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## hkdas



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## Abingdonboy

@hkdas Nice summary bro! I'd seen the vid but barely understand most of it.




hkdas said:


> * spg is in three teams 1st is EOD, 2nd is anti sabotage team and 3rd one is close protection team(which includes CAT, snipers and bodyguards)


The existence of the SPG's counter-snipers has been speculated for a while now but to date no pictures have emerged of them.


----------



## kbd-raaf

Abingdonboy said:


> @hkdas Nice summary bro! I'd seen the vid but barely understand most of it.
> 
> 
> 
> The existence of the SPG's counter-snipers has been speculated for a while now but to date no pictures have emerged of them.



Speculated? They would be a pretty piss poor VIP protection agency if they didn't have countersnipers.

In any case there was a news article about the preparations that went on for Modi's speech at the independence day festival, they clearly stated snipers were placed on nearby heights.

How you doing Abi?


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## Abingdonboy

kbd-raaf said:


> Speculated? They would be a pretty piss poor VIP protection agency if they didn't have countersnipers.


Indeed but till now not a single pic of SPG snipers have come out is all I was saying .




kbd-raaf said:


> In any case there was a news article about the preparations that went on for Modi's speech at the independence day festival, they clearly stated snipers were placed on nearby heights.


Very true, for such big events (R-day/I-day) NSG snipers are also used (SPG snipers are of course around but unseen to date). NSG snipers are there for security of the entire venue, SPG snipers (and the force as a whole) are there purely to protect the PM.

NSG snipers during R-day 2012:











In 2013:








kbd-raaf said:


> How you doing Abi?



I'm well kbd thank you , how are you doing?

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## bloo

Can anyone tell me whatever happened to the assault rifle procurement program for the army?

IWI Galil Ace






Colt's CM-901






Beretta's ARX-160


----------



## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> Can anyone tell me whatever happened to the assault rifle procurement program for the army?
> 
> IWI Galil Ace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colt's CM-901
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beretta's ARX-160


It's sill on but note it has nothing to do with SFs.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> It's sl on but note it has nothing to do with SFs.


About the SPG Sniper thing..I havent heard anything about it and always have seen NSG snipers in Republic day parade.

I still remember the SPG instructor did tell me about the Counter Sniper Teams but he didnt mention Snipers and even I didnt ask.But it has to have Snipers.I would love to see SPG snipers but there is an old pic of CST in blue dress in Kashmir valley equipped with AK.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> About the SPG Sniper thing..I havent heard anything about it and always have seen NSG snipers in Republic day parade.
> 
> I still remember the SPG instructor did tell me about the Counter Sniper Teams but he didnt mention Snipers and even I didnt ask.But it has to have Snipers.I would love to see SPG snipers but there is an old pic of CST in blue dress in Kashmir valley equipped with AK.


Bro, Counter Snipers are Snipers! No doubt the SPG has Counter Snipers/Snipers but as of yet they have not been pictured..

As for this guys in the blue dress in Kashmir, they are part of the CAT (Counter Assault Team) who have updated their weaponry and dress since then:


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, Counter Snipers are Snipers! No doubt the SPG has Counter Snipers/Snipers but as of yet they have not been pictured..
> 
> As for this guys in the blue dress in Kashmir, they are part of the CAT (Counter Assault Team) who have updated their weaponry and dress since then:



I know they are supposed to be snipers but till date no pics of them have emerged.What has emerged is the NSG CST pics.


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## bhangi bava

Abingdonboy said:


> It's sill on but note it has nothing to do with SFs.


is MCIWS going to replace insas or these


----------



## Abingdonboy

bhangi bava said:


> is MCIWS going to replace insas or these


MCIWS=INSAS replacement for all IA.

Foreign Multi-cal purchase= for select elite units in the IA not SFs though (RR, combat engineers, airborne-qualified medics, infantry, signallers etc)

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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> MCIWS=INSAS replacement for all IA.
> 
> Foreign Multi-cal purchase= for select elite units in the IA not SFs though (RR, combat engineers, airborne-qualified medics, infantry, signallers etc)


bro any update on MCIWS, i mean are trials going or new deadline given?


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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> bro any update on MCIWS, i mean are trials going or new deadline given?


Trails began last year and are ongoing by the IA trail team. First MCIWS should be in service by 2017 AFAIK.

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## Daedalus

Special Forces during INDRA 2013 






















If already posted please let me know, I will delete this post.

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## hkdas



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## Unknowncommando

X95 AKM vth UBGl Mp5 In as LMG AKM
Is that an aimpoint sight on AKM ??? 2nd from right




CRPF COBRAS

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## hkdas

Army officer goes missing in Europe
NEW DELHI:: An Army officer has gone missing while holidaying in Spain and Norway prompting the force to ask the Indian embassies there to search for him. 

The Captain is the ADC of the governor of Arunachal Pradesh and belongs to the 2 Para (Special Forces) unit of the Army based in Bangalore in counter-insurgency roles. 

The Indian embassies in Spain and Norway have been asked to locate the officer who was there to take part in adventure activities, Army officials said. 

The officer has not returned even after his leave has expired, they said, adding the matter was brought to the notice of the Army headquarters by his father as he was not traceable. 

The force is also trying to locate his cell phone and email ID location to know his whereabouts but so far, it has not been successful. 

In the past also, there have been cases where Army personnel went missing in foreign countries. 

Army officer goes missing in Europe - The Times of India


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## Indischer

hkdas said:


>


This guy seems to LOVE posing for pics......seen him at least half a dozen times in different poses/pics in this thread alone!

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## hkdas

Indischer said:


> This guy seems to LOVE posing for pics......seen him at least half a dozen times in different poses/pics in this thread alone!



may be.. these kind of entertainments give them a relief from the stress in work.

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## cloud_9

Which car is he using in Japan ?


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## Abingdonboy

cloud_9 said:


> Which car is he using in Japan ?


Armoured Mercedes S-Class (S-Guard perhaps). This belongs to the Japanese police unit charged with VVIP protection.

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## kurup

Indian Special Forces in 2030.

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA

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## RPK



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## hkdas

@Abingdonboy
Everything you need to know about CAT, the Secret Service’s baddest bad boys - The Washington Post
so this is the US counterpart of SPG-CAT. SPG_CAT is trained by secret service CAT

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## StormShadow

*I heard these are Marcos. But their looks are different. Can anybody shed some light?*

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## hkdas

StormShadow said:


> *I heard these are Marcos. But their looks are different. Can anybody shed some light?*



this is the pics of 1st batch of marcos... *Marine Commando Force (MCF) *then.....

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## StormShadow

hkdas said:


> this is the pics of 1st batch of marcos... *Marine Commando Force (MCF) *then.....


Oh. They dont seem Indian to me. More like Afghans.


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## hkdas

StormShadow said:


> Oh. They dont seem Indian to me. More like Afghans.


.... afghan don't have mp-5... that pics is very old
at the time marcos were formed MP-5 was considered as most sophisticated weapon in the world... now there are many weapons in the world to replace MP-5 but still our SFs uses this weapons. this clearly indicates the quality of the force then and now!!

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## StormShadow

hkdas said:


> .... afghan don't have mp-5... that pics is very old


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## hkdas



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## ravinderpalrulez

NSG commandos conduct mock drill in Gurgaon following threat from Al-Qaeda




P

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## bhangi bava

ravinderpalrulez said:


> NSG commandos conduct mock drill in Gurgaon following threat from Al-Qaeda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P


awesome


----------



## hkdas

ravinderpalrulez said:


> NSG commandos conduct mock drill in Gurgaon following threat from Al-Qaeda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P



this the 1st pics of NSG with NVG.... nice pics bro....
nsg need a better NVGs than this one... FBI-HRT is using GPNVGs now.. as the best counter terror unit india nsg must need GPNVGs

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Marcos deployed in Srinagar-Sopore for flood relief..till now 200 kashmiris rescued by Marcos divers and other Marcos team in Vizag and Mumbai put on alert.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Marcos deployed in Srinagar-Sopore for flood relief..till now 200 kashmiris rescued by Marcos divers and other Marcos team in Vizag and Mumbai put on alert.


headlines today is reporting this news..


----------



## RPK

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/508858957134176256


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## anyrandom

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Marcos deployed in Srinagar-Sopore for flood relief..till now 200 kashmiris rescued by Marcos divers and other Marcos team in Vizag and Mumbai put on alert.



Doesn't that show the inadequacy of our national disaster team that we have to use an elite commando unit to rescue people?


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## Alfa-Fighter

anyrandom said:


> Doesn't that show the inadequacy of our national disaster team that we have to use an elite commando unit to rescue people?


Marcos are best trained for Water based warfare ....... in this situation only they are best men to do the job..... Look the PAK , more people died their despite flood reach late there


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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> Doesn't that show the inadequacy of our national disaster team that we have to use an elite commando unit to rescue people?


Hardly, the NDRF has limitations it can't be everywhere not with its (relatively) small size of around 10,000 covering the vastness of India.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> this the 1st pics of NSG with NVG.... nice pics bro....
> nsg need a better NVGs than this one... FBI-HRT is using GPNVGs now.. as the best counter terror unit india nsg must need GPNVGs


First they should focus on getting twin-tube NVGs, forget about GPNVGs that cost a bomb ($40-60,000 USD EACH) and only the most well funded SOFs in the world have them (AFAIK DEVGRU,Delta and FBI-HRT(?)). Helmet mounted NVGs is a step forward for the NSG anyway (hadn't seen these in use before with them once).


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> FBI-HRT(?)). .













this pics shows the advantage of using GPNVG:




our military and politicians are eager to increase the number of commandos in NSG, not the quality of equipments. you see the size of the HRT is ~90. india must maintain a unit like HRT with the same standard of US counterpart. if the size of commandos are less then we can have all the good quality equipments with a small budget. but the NSG's monocular NVG is very pathetic. only thing that makes me happy is that that NVG used by NSG is indigenous(MKU Jaguar7)

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> Hardly, the NDRF has limitations it can't be everywhere not with its (relatively) small size of around 10,000 covering the vastness of India.



Not really. Consider this: a NDRF Team from Pune has been air-lifted and deployed in J & K. Mobilisation si much more speedy and efficient now than ever before.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> our military and politicians are eager to increase the number of commandos in NSG, not the quality of equipments. you see the size of the HRT is ~90. india must maintain a unit like HRT with the same standard of US counterpart. if the size of commandos are less then we can have all the good quality equipments with a small budget. but the NSG's monocular NVG is very pathetic. only thing that makes me happy is that that NVG used by NSG is indigenous(MKU Jaguar7)


Bro, I've told you before- it is stupid to compare the US model to the Indian. In the US every FBI field office (located in every state) has its own SWAT team that extremely well trained and equipped this is on top of the local/state SWAT teams that are also incredibly well equipped and trained. In India (whilst it is sort of changing) there isn't this kind of availability of well trained/equipped special response personal and thus it needs to be addressed largely by the federal govt (NSG) until the conditions are considerably improved on a local level as far as availability of such teams/units goes. 

Also the point about the NSG being too large is moot on two levels- the majority of the NSG are made up of SRG personal (the ones that protect VIPs and are purely from CAPFs) and NOT SAG (the "shooters" who conduct CT ops all from the IA). Right now the SRG is actively being decreased and the SAG (which is only around 1,500-2000 in number currently) being marginally increased so it's not an issue really. The real issue is the budget as it is- the budget per operator is going to be very low the NSG because the overall budget is modest this will be addressed in due time as India's economy grows. But right now the NSG needs to be relatively large, having a group of, say, 90 men (if you want to use the FBI HRT model) based in Delhi means that it could still take untold hours to fly them to distant parts of the country not to mention that as the availability of well trained/equipped/capable on the ground wherever they fly to in India is not assured then 90 is just far too small. For a 26/11 type situation where you have multiple target locations separated geographically all with vast rooms needing to be cleared you need a force of upwards of 300-400 operators and more if you need to provide a perimeter to all locations yourself (in the US local/state law enforcement would easily be up to the task, in India only certain states/cities could be counted upon right now). Thus the NSG needs to be large anyway, as they can't count on local resources, they need to be (and are) as self contained as possible. Did you know the main CT task force in Delhi that is available 24/7 to fly out to anywhere in India fly with their own food, communications systems, specialised vehicles, spare equipment etc etc 

As such comparing the US and Indian systems right now is comparing apples and oranges and is quite laughable.



Capt.Popeye said:


> Not really. Consider this: a NDRF Team from Pune has been air-lifted and deployed in J & K. Mobilisation si much more speedy and efficient now than ever before.


Mobilisation is not the issue sir but these missions (rescue/relief) are highly manpower intensive and thus the small size of it (relatively) is its own limitation and people need to understand this before attacking the NDRF and also bear in mind that never will the entire NDRF force (all 10,000 or so) be deployed in a relief mission as the NDRF teams in other parts of th country have to be where they are to cover that part of the country.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> this pics shows the advantage of using GPNVG:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> our military and politicians are eager to increase the number of commandosot the quality of equipments. you see the size of the HRT is ~90. india must maintain a unit like HRT with the same standard of US counterpart. if the size of commandos are less then we can have all the good quality equipments with a small budget. but the NSG's monocular NVG is very pathetic. only thing that makes me happy is that that NVG used by NSG is indigenous(MKU Jaguar7)



If we maintan a force of 3000 elite SF operators...2000 for Army..250 for Amphibious ops or Marcos and 250 for NSG and 100 for Garuds and rest 400 for reserve then we can definitely have one of the better equipped forces.

But everyone likes the size not the punch it can pack.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> If we maintan a force of 3000 elite SF operators...2000 for Army..250 for Amphibious ops or Marcos and 250 for NSG and 100 for Garuds and rest 400 for reserve then we can definitely have one of the better equipped forces.
> 
> But everyone likes the size not the punch it can pack.


I'm sorry bro but this is FAR too small for a country as large as India with the amount of threats India faces, as time goes by the demand on SOFs only is going to increase. The number as it is now (10-12,000 not including NSG) is good enough and should be kept at this level. India's defence budget now is only going to increase as time goes by and within a decade India's SOFs will be well funded enough to compete with the Western SOFs (maybe not the US SOFs but everyone else). It is a question of budget right now not size per se as the training will remain top-notch. Obviously it is possible to do both- the US SOCOM has over 60,000 operators .


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm sorry bro but this is FAR too small for a country as large as India with the amount of threats India faces, as time goes by the demand on SOFs only is going to increase. The number as it is now (10-12,000 not including NSG) is good enough and should be kept at this level. India's defence budget now is only going to increase as time goes by and within a decade India's SOFs will be well funded enough to compete with the Western SOFs (maybe not the US SOFs but everyone else). It is a question of budget right now not size per se as the training will remain top-notch. Obviously it is possible to do both- the US SOCOM has over 60,000 operators .



Well I strongly disagree with you mate.If we were talking about street gangs then I would be happy with big numbers but we are talking about highly trained and skilled soldiers with good technical, survival and linguistic knowledge who are trained to kill tens and hundreds of enemies in minutes if not seconds while being highly outnumbered. 

Look at the recent NSG pics.Even the 2nd rated US Police SWAT would be better equipped than them in a situation where US Police has to face psycos while we have to face well trained terrorists. 

The year 2015 iw few months away..where is the NSG upgrade.I still see bulky helmets, outdated guns, no secondary weapon for most, poor or no nvg, no corner shot in the pics, no tactical shield, no protective eye wear,no gloves, no uavs for surveillance. 

Had the numbers been small we would have had atleast 500 well equipped operators...but now we have a 10,000 strong super infantry.

The bottom line is that still Indian SFs are poorly equipped and badly utilised and will continue to be in this state.


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## hkdas

IAF garud commandos in a mil 17 during rescue ops in srinagar....

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> IAF garud commandos in a mil 17 during rescue ops in srinagar....














It seems the Garuds are being used to winch down and assemble/harness survivors to be winched up to the helos- makes sense, CSAR is part of their mandate.

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## hkdas

marcos...

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## hkdas

J&K: Marine commandos to establish waterways in Srinagar - IBNLive


> The MARCOS have already saved 1,500 people who were stuck in the floods. They have been equipped with diving sets and satellite phones to carry out their operations, the officials said

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## hkdas

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy, 
Training an eye on China and Afghanistan India is looking at developing stronger defense ties with central Asian countries including Turkmenistan Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan in order to increase its sphere of influence in the C - daily.bhaskar.com


> *Joint exercises of Indian Army with friendly foreign nations*
> 
> 1. Agni Warrior with Singapore (Nov-Dec 2012)
> 
> 2. Surya Kiran with Nepal (Dec 2012)
> 
> 3. Special Forces exercise with Sri Lanka (Dec 12)
> 
> 4. Indo-Kazak Spl Force with Kazakstan (Dec 12)
> 
> 5. Sanpriti-III with Bangladesh (Feb-March 13)
> 
> 6. Bold Kunul with Singapore (March 13)
> 
> 7. Ajeya Warrior with United Kingdom (May 13)
> 
> 8. Yuddh Abhyas with USA (May 13)
> 
> 9. Nomadic Elephant with Mongolia (June 13)
> 
> 10. Khan Quest with Mongolia (Aug 13)
> 
> 11. Shakti-13 with France (Sept 13)
> 
> 12. Shatrujeet with USA (Oct 13)
> 
> 13. Surya Kiran-V with Nepal (Sept 13)
> 
> 14. Indra with Russia (Sept 13)
> 
> 15. Hand-inHand with China (Nov 13)
> 
> 16. Garud Shakti with Indonesia (Dec 13)
> 
> *Planned for 2014*
> 
> 1.Vajra Prahar with USA (Feb-Marc 14)
> 
> 2.Surya Kiran-V with Nepal (March 14)
> 
> 3.Yudhh Abhyas with USA (June 14)



guys in this news dated on jan 2014 says about the upcoming joint training exercise with army. in this
.Vajra Prahar with USA (Feb-Marc 14) Shatrujeet with USA (Oct 13) are joint Special forces training exercise.. any info on these exercise?? is it done or postponed or cancelled??

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy,
> 
> 
> 
> guys in this news dated on jan 2014 says about the upcoming joint training exercise with army. in this
> .Vajra Prahar with USA (Feb-Marc 14) Shatrujeet with USA (Oct 13) are joint Special forces training exercise.. any info on these exercise?? is it done or postponed or cancelled??


The joint SF exercise Vajra Prahar used to be covered quite extensively both by the Indian media and US public affairs agency up until 2011. The 2012,2013 and now 2014 have been completely unreported and not a single piece of evidence exists in the public domain that they even happened (though we know they did) so God only knows why all of a sudden both sides are silent on this series of exercises and what they are doing now every year....


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> The joint SF exercise Vajra Prahar used to be covered quite extensively both by the Indian media and US public affairs agency up until 2011. The 2012,2013 and now 2014 have been completely unreported and not a single piece of evidence exists in the public domain that they even happened (*though we know they did*) so God only knows why all of a sudden both sides are silent on this series of exercises and what they are doing now every year....



are you sure? US army generally uploads videos of their joint exercises with other countries, till now no news or videos from them. and no indian media or US army press release had ever report about vajra prahar 2013 and vajra prahar 2014(may be yet to conduct) and is it that much important to kept a joint exercise secret??

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## hkdas

marcos in kashmir flood rescue:
Water Everywhere in Flooded Srinagar. But Very Little to Drink

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> are you sure? US army generally uploads videos of their joint exercises with other countries, till now no news or videos from them. and no indian media or US army press release had ever report about vajra prahar 2013 and vajra prahar 2014(may be yet to conduct) and is it that much important to kept a joint exercise secret??


That's what I'm saying- both sides have been suspiciously quite about the 2012,2013 and 2014 Vajra Prahar series. 


And yes, it is a FACT that the exercises took place.



hkdas said:


> marcos in kashmir flood rescue:
> Water Everywhere in Flooded Srinagar. But Very Little to Drink


Most of the guys shown are not MARCOs but IN divers.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> And yes,* it is a FACT that the exercises took place.*


bro, how do you know that?? do you have any contacts in army SF?



Abingdonboy said:


> Most of the guys shown are not MARCOs but IN divers.


in fact none of them looks like marcos to me... one wearing T-shirt have a frogman insignia. but looks too old for being a marcos. almost 99% of marcos take voluntary retirement before an age of 45. those serving after that age is high ranking officers. others have a marcos insignia on the cap and "navy diver" written on the back of the jacket!! and marcos never show their face to the media(it is part of their operational procedure in kashmir)

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> in fact none of them looks like marcos to me... one wearing T-shirt have a frogman insignia. but looks too old for being a marcos. almost 99% of marcos take voluntary retirement before an age of 45. those serving after that age is high ranking officers. others have a marcos insignia on the cap and "navy diver" written on the back of the jacket!! and marcos never show their face to the media(it is part of their operational procedure in kashmir)


Indeed, I couldn't see any MARCOs insignia or anything to indicate any of them were MARCOs but the report said "commandos" so I assumes at least 1-2 of them must be but it doesn't look to be the case.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, I couldn't see any MARCOs insignia or anything to indicate any of them were MARCOs but the report said "commandos" so I assumes at least 1-2 of them must be but it doesn't look to be the case.









marcos marcos insignia

@Abingdonboy are you sure that the vajra prahar is still conducted(after 2012)??


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## noksss



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## hkdas

Naval Marine Commandos evacuate stranded people from Bemina in Srinagar to safer places in J&K.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, I couldn't see any MARCOs insignia or anything to indicate any of them were MARCOs but the report said "commandos" so I assumes at least 1-2 of them must be but it doesn't look to be the case.


Dude apart from you no one says that they are not Marcos...Infact the reporters travelling with them also call them Marcos.

I have tried to explain this to you several times..but you are stubborn.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude apart from you no one says that they are not Marcos...Infact the reporters travelling with them also call them Marcos.
> 
> I have tried to explain this to you several times..but you are stubborn.


Bro It's common sense!

I'll concede that this guy is MARCOs (look at his cap):



hkdas said:


> marcos marcos insignia



MARCOs insignia:










hkdas said:


> Naval Marine Commandos evacuate stranded people from Bemina in Srinagar to safer places in J&K.
> View attachment 50564
> 
> View attachment 50565
> 
> View attachment 50566
> 
> View attachment 50567
> 
> View attachment 50568



But these guys are all IN Divers (it says as much on their jackets) and the insignia they have is the Combat Divers badge:









Don't take my word for it just read what they have under the badge ("NAVY DIVER"):















The majority of those shown in Kashmir so far have been IN Divers and not MARCOs bro.


We've seen PARA (SF) with the Combat Diver's badge, does that make them MARCOs?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro It's common sense!
> 
> I'll concede that this guy is MARCOs (look at his cap):
> 
> 
> 
> MARCOs insignia:
> 
> 
> View attachment 50777
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But these guys are all IN Divers (it says as much on their jackets) and the insignia they have is the Combat Divers badge:
> 
> View attachment 50778
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't take my word for it just read what they have under the badge ("NAVY DIVER"):
> 
> View attachment 50779
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 50780
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of those shown in Kashmir so far have been IN Divers and not MARCOs bro.
> 
> 
> We've seen PARA (SF) with the Combat Diver's badge, does that make them MARCOs?




Either you or right or the reporters who are on the same boat as that of them are wrong.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Either you or right or the reporters who are on the same boat as that of them are wrong.


As I said one of the (maybe two) guys on the boat _are_ MARCOs but the rest are Combat Divers. It's no surprise the Indian media are sensationalising the news and missing details.

Perhaps the MARCOs are providing extra manpower in this situation/providing security? I don't know why they are operating in mixed units like this.


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 53358
> View attachment 53360
> View attachment 53361
> View attachment 53362
> View attachment 53363
> View attachment 53364
> View attachment 53365
> View attachment 53366
> View attachment 53367
> View attachment 53370
> 
> IA JK FLOOD RELIEF OPs


Bro there is an Indian Military picture thread. Keep this thread purely for SF/special units.

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## hkdas

JKFloods: Naval teams in the Valley(some are marcos)

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> JKFloods: Naval teams in the Valley(some are marcos)
> View attachment 53727
> 
> View attachment 53728
> 
> View attachment 53729
> 
> View attachment 53730
> 
> View attachment 53731
> 
> View attachment 53732
> 
> View attachment 53733
> 
> View attachment 53734
> 
> View attachment 53735
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 53736


MARCOs seem to be senior leadership and appear to be controlling the IN diver teams rather than actually conducting rescue operations themselves. Make sense given the skills and capabilities of MARCOs to conduct operations independently.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> MARCOs seem to be senior leadership and appear to be controlling the IN diver teams rather than actually conducting rescue operations themselves. Make sense given the skills and capabilities of MARCOs to conduct operations independently.



in a news video(NDTV) a Marcos himself says that for this kind of rescue there is no need for skilled divers.

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> in a news video(NDTV) a Marcos himself says that for this kind of rescue there is no need for skilled divers.


Indeed, thus there's no need for SF (other than for command purposes and such). Not even heard of IA SF being deployed in these operations (as they were in Uttrakand as their specialist skills were needed).


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## Abingdonboy

ACM meets some Garuds in Kashmir who have been taking part in SAR operations during the floods (primarily as winch-men):

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## Abingdonboy

Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi in Ahmedabad, Gujarat to meet the Chinese President Xi Jinping on September 17th 2014.

The journeys were short in nature so the SPG only brought one 760Li Security and one Tata Safari-based mobile Jammer the remaining vehicles belong to the local police.

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## RPK




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## noksss




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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


>


I really dislike these kind of Indian Mil videos on Youtube- filled with foreign units and non-SFs. Most people don't seem to understand the true meaning of the term "Special Forces"

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## hkdas



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## hkdas

A Russian Soldier Checks Out Silenced MICRO UZI Of PARA SF.....

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUD COMMANDOS AFTER A SAR OP AT THE CRASH SITE OF MIG21 KASHMIR

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 69455
> View attachment 69462
> View attachment 69463
> View attachment 69464
> View attachment 69465
> View attachment 69466
> View attachment 69467
> View attachment 69468
> View attachment 69469
> 
> IAF GARUD COMMANDOS AFTER A SAR OP AT THE CRASH SITE OF MIG21 KASHMIR


SAR not to mention securing the crash site.

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## cloud_9

What about Yudh Abhyas 2014 ? Any pictures surfacing up?


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## gau8av

I'd really really like to see an Indian SF video to this track: 





request @Abingdonboy @ any others making military vids

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## dropithard

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/515083683028406272

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## Abingdonboy

dropithard said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/515083683028406272


Bro, let's keep this thread for Special Forces/units only....

For all other Indian Military pics post here:

Indian Military Picture Thread | Page 507


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF SCREENSHOTS FROM AN OLD VID

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 85330
> View attachment 85331
> View attachment 85332
> View attachment 85333
> View attachment 85334
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF SCREENSHOTS FROM AN OLD VID


Sweet vid! Looks quite old though. Indian SFs have got to be amongst the best trained SFs on the planet! The sheer versatility of these guys is crazy!!


First few shots can't be Indian SF (the IAF C-17s only arrived late last year).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 85330
> View attachment 85331
> View attachment 85332
> View attachment 85333
> View attachment 85334
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF SCREENSHOTS FROM AN OLD VID



Wow..nice video..what is the source of this video?


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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


>



that marime time aerial craft delivering in that video may not be indian special forces... but that jumping from C-17 amy be indian because we have done that in US in Yudh abhyas 2010.. all others are indian special forces.. i like the video from nahan. that dropping of special forces into water directly with a rubber craft from IAF mill 17 is exclusive one.

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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Wow..nice video..what is the source of this video?


Just got this video while random searching. The para jumps may be from joint ex coz the vid was uploaded in 2010. Other clips are from Nahan training centre.

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## Abingdonboy

gau8av said:


> I'd really really like to see an Indian SF video to this track:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> request @Abingdonboy @ any others making military vids


I've been wanting to use this video for an Indian SF vid for a while- maybe for my next one .

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## gau8av

Abingdonboy said:


> I've been wanting to use this video for an Indian SF vid for a while- maybe for my next one .


that'd be awesome, do it !

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF (FROM NDTV VID JAI JAWAN WITH RANBIR KAPOOR)
SOME SCREENSHOTS WHICH MAY BE MISSED SO POSTING AGAIN

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SPECIAL FORCES

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Garuds during SAR ops in Kashmir:

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## Unknowncommando

marcos































INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
































INDIAN ARMY PARA SF COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF


























INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

IA PARA SF




CRPF COBRA COMMANDO

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## IndoUS

Arey bhai kya apni SF ko helmets say allergy hai kya. Ever time it's a cloth wrapped around their heads.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

i see SPG less active in US and trusting their American counterparts with Modi's security.American operatives outnumber Modi's bg at all events..plus Chevy Tahoe is in action there.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> i see SPG less active in US and trusting their American counterparts with Modi's security.American operatives outnumber Modi's bg at all events..plus Chevy Tahoe is in action there.


This is how it goes when Heads of state visit friendly/safe/developed nations- the host country is given responsibility for looking after the majority of the VVIP's security and travel. This is how it will be if/when Modi goes to Japan, US, UK, France, Brazil etc etc and vice versa. Modi only needs a large SPG team and the SPG's own 7 Series when travelling to less safe/developed nations i.e. Bhutan and Nepal.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> This is how it goes when Heads of state visit friendly/safe/developed nations- the host country is given responsibility for looking after the majority of the VVIP's security and travel. This is how it will be if/when Modi goes to Japan, US, UK, France, Brazil etc etc and vice versa. Modi only needs a large SPG team and the SPG's own 7 Series when travelling to less safe/developed nations i.e. Bhutan and Nepal.



Japan was not the same...you still got to see SPG around him.Here you only had 1 or 2 SPG guys around him.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Japan was not the same...you still got to see SPG around him.Here you only had 1 or 2 SPG guys around him.


To be fair American is the one exception to this. Their security apparatus is far more cumbersome and extensive and pretty much takes care of everything and there is little need for a large SPG contingent (although there would be one no doubt).


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## The Unnamed

IndoUS said:


> Arey bhai kya apni SF ko helmets say allergy hai kya. Ever time it's a cloth wrapped around their heads.



ooka patka kahtey hain babua ! pagree nahi hai.


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## Abingdonboy

Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi’s Cavalcade parked up at a Delhi Police station as he makes a spot inspection of the premises.

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## Abingdonboy

SPG's 760LI Security editions (they brought two of them along with 1 Mobile jammer based on a Tata Safari SUV, not pictured) during Modi's visit to Bhutan:

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## Abingdonboy

More of Modi's Cavalcade during his spot inspection of a Delhi Police station:

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## Unknowncommando

NOW CRPF COBRAS GOT RED/MAROON BERETS
(1)R THEY GOING UNDER PARA TRAINING???
(2)WHEN ASKED THE GUY SAID THEY ARE included in SFs
(3)is it red or maroon beret ??
FEW DAYS BACK THEY GOT GREEN BERETS 
donts know what the scene is someone please clarify

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> R THEY GOING UNDER PARA TRAINING???


No they are not- they are not trained to jump from a/c nor do they need to be.



Unknowncommando said:


> WHEN ASKED THE GUY SAID THEY ARE included in SFs



They are not SFs in anyway.



Unknowncommando said:


> is it red or maroon beret ??


It's red which is used for the Military Police in the IA (not that that means anything in this case).


They need to stop worrying about the colour of their Beret and get on with the job......

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## hkdas

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=644732122290783

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## anyrandom

Modi convoy in the US

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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> Modi convoy in the US


The second one is POTUS 100%.


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## hkdas

@Abingdonboy the indo-us special forces excercise vajra prahar 2014 had conducted in march ... is that true?? i thought that vajra prahar serise excercise have been cancelled...

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## hkdas

NSG to observe 2014 as 'year of the commando' 

Read more at:
NSG to observe 2014 as 'year of the commando' - The Economic Times

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> @Abingdonboy the indo-us special forces excercise vajra prahar 2014 had conducted in march ... is that true?? i thought that vajra prahar serise excercise have been cancelled...


Absolutely! The series were never cancelled and have happened every year since 2009.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Absolutely! The series were never cancelled and have happened every year since 2009.



BUT WHY NO NEWS ABOUT IT??? IA GENERALLY DO PRESS RELEASE ABOUT ANY EXERCISE.. WHY AN EXCEPTION FOR THIS??

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## RPK

When Danger meets the Dangerous : LIDO jump at Commando School, Belgaum

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## RPK



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## special

Chanakya's_Chant said:


> *Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47*
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Variant of AK-47_​
> KOLKATA: Rifle Factory, Ishapore, one of the oldest ordnance factories in the country, has successfully designed an assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47.
> 
> *Sources in the Ordnance Factory Board said the prototype of this weapon had successfully cleared field trials by the Army, the Indian Air Force and the Sashastra Seema Bal.*
> 
> *The Ishapore factory will soon start production of 50,000 units of this rifle in the first phase.*
> 
> _For over a decade now, the Ordnance Factory Board has been attempting to develop an indigenous assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47. Initially, there was some embarrassment after an ordnance factory displayed an indigenous replica of the AK-47 at a defence expo in Delhi. This didn't go unnoticed and Mikhail Kalashnikov, the inventor of the world's most sold and used assault rifle that goes by his name, threatened to file a copyright violation suit against the Indian ordnance factory._
> 
> *"Since then, our designers have been attempting to develop an assault rifle, using the AK-47 as a model but without replicating any of its mechanism. *Three ordnance factories tried to develop their own variants. These were Rifle Factory of Ishapore, the Small Arms Factory of Kanpur and the Ordnance Factory of Tiruchirapalli. The Ishapore factory has a long history of developing and making rifles. During the World Wars, this factory produced .303 bolt-action rifles for the Allied forces. After the 1962 Sino-India conflict, the factory developed and built the 7.62mm self-loading semi-automatic rifle. This rifle was called the Ishapore Rifle and it went on to become the mainstay for the Indian security forces for several decades. In the 90's, the factory started manufacturing the 5.56mm Insas rifles that are still the primary personal weapon of the Indian infantryman," an official said.
> 
> *The three factories at Ishapore, Kanpur and Tiruchirapalli built prototypes that underwent tests for the first time earlier this year.* Minor defects were detected in all three variants. While the one developed by the Ishapore factory was declared fit in all other aspects, it failed to operate successfully in mud. An assault rifle has to be effective in all conditions, even when fired from under slush.
> 
> *"This defect was rectified subsequently and when the final round of tests was conducted, the Ishapore variant was declared the best.* *This is an improved version of any assault rifle and the designers borrowed several facets from the 5.56mm Insas, which was also developed at Ishapore, while making this rifle. *With the Insas going out of production, facilities at the Ishapore factory were lying idle. *The new order will sustain the factory for the times to come,"* the official added.
> 
> Source:- Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 - The Times of India



looks similar... what you guys think??

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS




PARA COMMANDOS AFTER PARAJUMP EXERCISE




COAS BG PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> looks similar... what you guys think??











CORRECT BROalso in service with (STF) SPECIAL TASK FORCE OF CHATTISGARH
Redirect Notice


The Indian Air Force (IAF) is seeking to upgrade the capabilities of its Garud commandos by procuring 160-200 light bullet proof vehicles and 1500-1900 sub-machine carbines. The new acquisitions will increase the capability of the IAF’s elite force and also attract substantial interest from foreign and Indian companies. 

The latest Request for Information (RFI) released by the ministry of defence (MOD) is for the procurement of 1500-1900 Sub Machine Carbines for IAF. The Sub Machine Carbine will be used by IAF ‘Garud’ Special Forces to meet their Operational requirements. Last date of acceptance of responses is 21 October 2014. 

Only Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM)/authorised vendors/government sponsored export agencies (applicable in the case of countries where domestic laws do not permit direct export by OEMs) can respond to the tender. A Request for Proposal (RFP) will be issued to those compliant with the requirements at a later date. The RFI calls for the acquisition of 1500-1900 numbers of ‘a modern light weight Sub Machine Carbine (SMC) with effective handling, high accuracy and simple maintenance.’ 

The specifications released call for a 9 mm/4.6 mm/ 0.45 inch calibre weapon with a magazine capacity greater than or equal to 15 rounds and weight not exceeding 3.5 Kg. The weight target of 3.5 kg can be without any accessories or with an empty/filled magazine. The overall length of the weapon (with and without accessories) must not exceed 850 mm, with a barrel length of less than 400 mm. An effective range of greater than 400 metres has been called for with muzzle velocity in excess of 400 m/s and a rate of fire, greater than 700 rounds per minute has been specified. The sighting system can consist of Reflex/Day/ Night Sights and accessories such as sights, silencer, laser pointer, tactical torch and extra fitments must be specified. 

An RFI was also issued earlier by the ministry of defence (MoD) for the procurement of 160 to 200, light bulletproof vehicles for use by the Garud ‘Quick Reaction Team (QRT) to counter sub-conventional threats to IAF in real time’. The last date of responses was mentioned as September 12, but this is likely to be extended. The specifications released as per the RFI call for the vehicle to have a turbocharged diesel engine, certified by the vendor to have an engine life of 100,00 km and capable of operating at high altitudes. The power-to-weight ratio must not be less than 25 kW/ton (fully laden with AC On). The right hand drive vehicle must have power steering and the ‘latest available automatic transmission system’ and provision for Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) as per Central Motor Vehicle Rules (CMVR) norms along with parking brakes. Independent suspension on all four wheels is also a must, though surprisingly the RFI does not mention four wheel drive (4WD) requirements. Length of the vehicle and height should not be more than 5 m and 2.25 m respectively and height has been fixed at ‘Not more than 2.25 m with the gunner’s hatch closed down excluding weapon mount, search lights, spare wheel and antenna.’

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 121541
> 
> View attachment 121509
> 
> CORRECT BROalso in service with (STF) SPECIAL TASK FORCE OF CHATTISGARH
> Redirect Notice
> View attachment 121639​The Indian Air Force (IAF) is seeking to upgrade the capabilities of its Garud commandos by procuring 160-200 light bullet proof vehicles and 1500-1900 sub-machine carbines. The new acquisitions will increase the capability of the IAF’s elite force and also attract substantial interest from foreign and Indian companies.
> 
> The latest Request for Information (RFI) released by the ministry of defence (MOD) is for the procurement of 1500-1900 Sub Machine Carbines for IAF. The Sub Machine Carbine will be used by IAF ‘Garud’ Special Forces to meet their Operational requirements. Last date of acceptance of responses is 21 October 2014.
> 
> Only Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM)/authorised vendors/government sponsored export agencies (applicable in the case of countries where domestic laws do not permit direct export by OEMs) can respond to the tender. A Request for Proposal (RFP) will be issued to those compliant with the requirements at a later date. The RFI calls for the acquisition of 1500-1900 numbers of ‘a modern light weight Sub Machine Carbine (SMC) with effective handling, high accuracy and simple maintenance.’
> 
> The specifications released call for a 9 mm/4.6 mm/ 0.45 inch calibre weapon with a magazine capacity greater than or equal to 15 rounds and weight not exceeding 3.5 Kg. The weight target of 3.5 kg can be without any accessories or with an empty/filled magazine. The overall length of the weapon (with and without accessories) must not exceed 850 mm, with a barrel length of less than 400 mm. An effective range of greater than 400 metres has been called for with muzzle velocity in excess of 400 m/s and a rate of fire, greater than 700 rounds per minute has been specified. The sighting system can consist of Reflex/Day/ Night Sights and accessories such as sights, silencer, laser pointer, tactical torch and extra fitments must be specified.
> 
> An RFI was also issued earlier by the ministry of defence (MoD) for the procurement of 160 to 200, light bulletproof vehicles for use by the Garud ‘Quick Reaction Team (QRT) to counter sub-conventional threats to IAF in real time’. The last date of responses was mentioned as September 12, but this is likely to be extended. The specifications released as per the RFI call for the vehicle to have a turbocharged diesel engine, certified by the vendor to have an engine life of 100,00 km and capable of operating at high altitudes. The power-to-weight ratio must not be less than 25 kW/ton (fully laden with AC On). The right hand drive vehicle must have power steering and the ‘latest available automatic transmission system’ and provision for Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) as per Central Motor Vehicle Rules (CMVR) norms along with parking brakes. Independent suspension on all four wheels is also a must, though surprisingly the RFI does not mention four wheel drive (4WD) requirements. Length of the vehicle and height should not be more than 5 m and 2.25 m respectively and height has been fixed at ‘Not more than 2.25 m with the gunner’s hatch closed down excluding weapon mount, search lights, spare wheel and antenna.’




Good 

Tired of seeing Gypsy`s -_-

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRAS NIGHT MARCHING




FORMER COAS VK SINGH MEETING IA REGULARS AND PARA COMMANDOS (BEHIND HIM)

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Good
> 
> Tired of seeing Gypsy`s -_-


 Heck yeah!


Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 121541
> 
> View attachment 121509
> 
> CORRECT BROalso in service with (STF) SPECIAL TASK FORCE OF CHATTISGARH
> Redirect Notice
> View attachment 121639​The Indian Air Force (IAF) is seeking to upgrade the capabilities of its Garud commandos by procuring 160-200 light bullet proof vehicles and 1500-1900 sub-machine carbines. The new acquisitions will increase the capability of the IAF’s elite force and also attract substantial interest from foreign and Indian companies.
> 
> The latest Request for Information (RFI) released by the ministry of defence (MOD) is for the procurement of 1500-1900 Sub Machine Carbines for IAF. The Sub Machine Carbine will be used by IAF ‘Garud’ Special Forces to meet their Operational requirements. Last date of acceptance of responses is 21 October 2014.
> 
> Only Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM)/authorised vendors/government sponsored export agencies (applicable in the case of countries where domestic laws do not permit direct export by OEMs) can respond to the tender. A Request for Proposal (RFP) will be issued to those compliant with the requirements at a later date. The RFI calls for the acquisition of 1500-1900 numbers of ‘a modern light weight Sub Machine Carbine (SMC) with effective handling, high accuracy and simple maintenance.’
> 
> The specifications released call for a 9 mm/4.6 mm/ 0.45 inch calibre weapon with a magazine capacity greater than or equal to 15 rounds and weight not exceeding 3.5 Kg. The weight target of 3.5 kg can be without any accessories or with an empty/filled magazine. The overall length of the weapon (with and without accessories) must not exceed 850 mm, with a barrel length of less than 400 mm. An effective range of greater than 400 metres has been called for with muzzle velocity in excess of 400 m/s and a rate of fire, greater than 700 rounds per minute has been specified. The sighting system can consist of Reflex/Day/ Night Sights and accessories such as sights, silencer, laser pointer, tactical torch and extra fitments must be specified.
> 
> An RFI was also issued earlier by the ministry of defence (MoD) for the procurement of 160 to 200, light bulletproof vehicles for use by the Garud ‘Quick Reaction Team (QRT) to counter sub-conventional threats to IAF in real time’. The last date of responses was mentioned as September 12, but this is likely to be extended. The specifications released as per the RFI call for the vehicle to have a turbocharged diesel engine, certified by the vendor to have an engine life of 100,00 km and capable of operating at high altitudes. The power-to-weight ratio must not be less than 25 kW/ton (fully laden with AC On). The right hand drive vehicle must have power steering and the ‘latest available automatic transmission system’ and provision for Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) as per Central Motor Vehicle Rules (CMVR) norms along with parking brakes. Independent suspension on all four wheels is also a must, though surprisingly the RFI does not mention four wheel drive (4WD) requirements. Length of the vehicle and height should not be more than 5 m and 2.25 m respectively and height has been fixed at ‘Not more than 2.25 m with the gunner’s hatch closed down excluding weapon mount, search lights, spare wheel and antenna.’


 Bro start a new thread for such news! Well worth more discussion on its own dedicated thread.....



RPK said:


> View attachment 113566
> 
> 
> When Danger meets the Dangerous : LIDO jump at Commando School, Belgaum


 The "Commando" name of this school/course is misleading. The Commando course at Belguam is mandatory for every Infantry officer after commissioning and has NOTHING to do with Special Forces.


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## special



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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


Overall pretty nice demos, shame they didn't showcase their Sherpa assault vehicle this year.

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## me_itsme

special said:


> looks similar... what you guys think??




That is just a generic pic of the rifle not the real one. stupid journos just put some pic

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## RKO

our special forces are like US conventional forces. .need to improve alot!!


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special said:


> looks similar... what you guys think??


This pic is from a airsoft forum not an indian product nor any different from the average mass produced AK ... Except for the front hand grip of the rail..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Overall pretty nice demos, shame they didn't showcase their Sherpa assault vehicle this year.



What about the 2015 kit??


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What about the 2015 kit??


On the modernisation front was pretty solid showing- good kit for all operators (optics on weapons, personal radios, new helmets, gloves, knee pads etc), also shown was the ROV for EOD, communications vest for sniffer dogs, micro-UAVs (Netra) a new generation TCV (Total Containment Vehicle) so looks like the NSG's 2010-2015 upgrade plan is coming along nicely indeed. Naturally not every aspect of this upgrade was demonstrated nor could it be.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> On the modernisation front was pretty solid showing- good kit for all operators (optics on weapons, personal radios, new helmets, gloves, knee pads etc), also shown was the ROV for EOD, communications vest for sniffer dogs, micro-UAVs (Netra) a new generation TCV (Total Containment Vehicle) so looks like the NSG's 2010-2015 upgrade plan is coming along nicely indeed. Naturally not every aspect of this upgrade was demonstrated nor could it be.



Whats left now?


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## Abingdonboy

Some screenshots of the 30th Raising day demos:





































(that attack dog was VICIOUS!!)





































(brand-spanking new TCV)



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Whats left now?


Not much at all, off the top of my head it would be body-worn cameras transmitting back to commanders (will be in service very shortly).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Some screenshots of the 30th Raising day demos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> (that attack dog was VICIOUS!!)
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (brand-spanking new TCV)
> 
> 
> Not much at all, off the top of my head it would be body-worn cameras transmitting back to commanders (will be in service very shortly).



What about ballistic shields,portable radars for scanning walls,corner shots (are they in use),fast helmets,Better nvg?

And i am not even talking about state of the art stuff like helmet mounted radars for scanning walls,top of the line gear,fuel cells and body sensors.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS AT MANESAR TRAINING CENTRE DURING 30TH RAISING DAY

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


>


parkour training for Nsg!!!... we should give parkour training for all SF units..


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What about ballistic shields,portable radars for scanning walls,corner shots (are they in use),fast helmets,Better nvg?


Like I said bro, it is impossible to showcase everything in their arsenal. They have the shields, wall-scanning radars (as do PARA (SF) and CornerShots though I know that for sure.

As for FAST helmets, maybe later but that was never part of this 2010-15 upgrade and they have received new non-FAST helmets under this program.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Like I said bro, it is impossible to showcase everything in their arsenal. They have the shields, wall-scanning radars (as do PARA (SF) and CornerShots though I know that for sure.
> 
> As for FAST helmets, maybe later but that was never part of this 2010-15 upgrade and they have received new non-FAST helmets under this program.


They dont have ballistic sheilds.


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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


>



Nice presentation... I hope that there was a decent photographer there....... I want to see some close ups 

Also nice to see the NSG using the latest IAF choppers for training.

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Also nice to see the NSG using the latest IAF choppers for training.


I'm actually very impressed with the rate the IAF is replacing their older Mi-8/17s with the V5 across the entire fleet.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> On the modernisation front was pretty solid showing- good kit for all operators (optics on weapons, personal radios, new helmets, gloves, knee pads etc), also shown was the ROV for EOD, communications vest for sniffer dogs, micro-UAVs (Netra) a new generation TCV (Total Containment Vehicle) so looks like the NSG's 2010-2015 upgrade plan is coming along nicely indeed. Naturally not every aspect of this upgrade was demonstrated nor could it be.



Okay..i got the time to watch the lengthy video now only.Here are some important points:-

*DG NSG asks media to not do any publicity of NSG.

*Minister announces increase of budget for weapons,ammo,clothing and gear 4 times to 325,000$ each.

Now this is a great news since some more NSG hubs are coming up and we will get to see some good gear in future.

Apart from this the skills the commando showed in urban obstacle clearence and Martial arts is commendable.

With the budget increase of 4 times and expert training being given of even small but important things i see NSG among the most elite units of the world in next 5 years.

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Okay..i got the time to watch the lengthy video now only.Here are some important points:-
> 
> *DG NSG asks media to not do any publicity of NSG.
> 
> *Minister announces increase of budget for weapons,ammo,clothing and gear 4 times to 325,000$ each.
> 
> Now this is a great news since some more NSG hubs are coming up and we will get to see some good gear in future.
> 
> Apart from this the skills the commando showed in urban obstacle clearence and Martial arts is commendable.
> 
> With the budget increase of 4 times and expert training being given of even small but important things i see NSG among the most elite units of the world in next 5 years.



Yeah, thats very very good news indeed! The improvements with their current budget has already been impressive, just imagine what they can do with 4 times that amount !


But I dont understand why/how he wants less publicity if they organize such public mass events and shows at the same time .....


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

I really loved the way they (NSG) hopped into the bus ... amazing stuff on display

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Yeah, thats very very good news indeed! The improvements with their current budget has already been impressive, just imagine what they can do with 4 times that amount !
> 
> 
> But I dont understand why/how he wants less publicity if they organize such public mass events and shows at the same time .....



He said apart from our raising day kindly do not do publicity for our work.


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## Unknowncommando

ANY IDEA ABOUT THESE SHOT GUNS DISPLAYED AT MANESAR







NSG

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> ANY IDEA ABOUT THESE SHOT GUNS DISPLAYED AT MANESAR



SPAS 12:







Looks to be a rather old presentation/display, must have been from a few years back.



Koovie said:


> But I dont understand why/how he wants less publicity if they organize such public mass events and shows at the same time


Actually that makes a lot of sense- the NSG are okay that these official events (the ones they put on) are covered by the press, that is mandatory of course. But they don't want their drills and operational training covered by the media as does happen from time to time, remember those pics of NSG teams conducting a mock drill in Gurgeon recently? That is the kind of stuff the NSG wants to avoid and for understandable reasons. They only want the public/world to see what they want to show them. 

This is how the 3 Military SOFs work as well.

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## hkdas

that dog... belgian malinois or Belgian Shepherd Dog looks less trained.. it even don't stop biting even after that man is apprehended... now belgian malinois are like movie stars within the SFs around the world after NAVY seals used them in Operation Neptune Spear.


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## anyrandom

Finally we have a government which is not indifferent to the needs of a modern combat force which was made clear by Modi today in armed forces conference that India needs a digital and efficient army. Good going.


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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> Finally we have a government which is not indifferent to the needs of a modern combat force which was made clear by Modi today in armed forces conference that India needs a digital and efficient army. Good going.


Well let's just hope he delivers on his promises- he certainly talks the talk but whether he walks to walk remains to be seen, his performance has not been stellar on this front so far but it is very early days...



hkdas said:


> that dog... belgian malinois or Belgian Shepherd Dog looks less trained.. it even don't stop biting even after that man is apprehended... now belgian malinois are like movie stars within the SFs around the world after NAVY seals used them in Operation Neptune Spear.


Yup, like I said- VICIOUS!! You wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a trained one of these coming after you!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Well let's just hope he delivers on his promises- he certainly talks the talk but whether he walks to walk remains to be seen, his performance has not been stellar on this front so far but it is very early days...!



He has already increased the budget 4 times,asked the forces to give a tough reply to Pakistanis on border firing,handled the Chinese incursion well and always supported the armed forces and scientific communtiy in every way he could in 150 days .


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## hkdas

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR... 
do our Army sf use dogs which are trained like US navy seals's dog ?? even BSF and CRPF cobras uses these kind of dogs during operations..








you can see a camera and a headphone on that dog... similar to that of US military dogs

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS DURING 30TH RAISING DAY 2014 MANESAR

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## Unknowncommando

some stills from this NSG VID SHOWING THEIR TRAINING AND DRILLS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS DURING RAISING DAY

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS MORE PICS

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR...
> do our Army sf use dogs which are trained like US navy seals's dog ?? even BSF and CRPF cobras uses these kind of dogs during operations..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can see a camera and a headphone on that dog... similar to that of US military dogs



Nope..i havent seen anythibg till now.Dogs are used for explosive identification only.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nope..i havent seen anythibg till now.Dogs are used for explosive identification only.


Not exactly true- you can see the NSG use attack dogs for taking down hostiles.


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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Sweet vid! Looks quite old though. Indian SFs have got to be amongst the best trained SFs on the planet! The sheer versatility of these guys is crazy!!
> .


Do all our SF men go to Israel for training like Afghanis come to India?? or is it for selected few?


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 137009
> View attachment 137010
> View attachment 137011
> View attachment 137012
> View attachment 137013
> View attachment 137014
> View attachment 137019
> View attachment 137016
> View attachment 137017
> View attachment 137018
> 
> some stills from this NSG VID SHOWING THEIR TRAINING AND DRILLS


Seems like a mix of drills/pics from recently (2013) and quite a while before (early 2000s).



levina said:


> Do all our SF men go to Israel for training like Afghanis come to India?? or is it for selected few?


Quite a few do but I seriously doubt ALL of them do, most likely the instructors and such. Comparing Indian SF to Afghan Mil is rather foolish ma'am, the disparity in training and military culture is vast.


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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Quite a few do but I seriously doubt ALL of them do, most likely the instructors and such.


Okay!


Abingdonboy said:


> Comparing Indian SF to Afghan Mil is rather foolish ma'am, the disparity in training and military culture is vast.


Gosh!!
when did I compare Afghani and Indian soldiers??
I just asked do we send our SF guys to israel the way Afghan sends theirs to India?? (I am sure you know that every year many Afghanis pass out from our institutions like IMA )


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> when did I compare Afghani and Indian soldiers??
> I just asked do we send our SF guys to israel the way Afghan sends theirs to India?? (I am sure you know that every year many Afghanis pass out from our institutions like IMA )


I understand what you mean. In the Afghan case they send soldiers for basic training in India (IMA and such) but the Indian case is different, soldiers are only sent to Israel for advanced training



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He has already increased the budget 4 times,asked the forces to give a tough reply to Pakistanis on border firing,handled the Chinese incursion well and always supported the armed forces and scientific communtiy in every way he could in 150 days .


Yes, I agree it is very early days but what I am more interested to see is if he will be more willing to employ SOFs in direct action missions, cultivate a strong intelligence-SF relationship and finally okay the Indian SOCOM.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> I understand what you mean. In the Afghan case they send soldiers for basic training in India (IMA and such) but the Indian case is different, soldiers are only sent to Israel for advanced training
> .


Is Israel the only country which helps train Indian SF?


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> Is Israel the only country which helps train Indian SF?


Indian SOFs and the NSG train with their counterparts in the US, France, Russia, Brazil, UK and Germany (to a varying degree depending on the force and nation).

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Indian SOFs and the NSG train with their counterparts in the US, France, Russia, Brazil, UK and Germany (to a varying degree depending on the force and nation).


You're not talking about the joint exercises.Are you?


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> You're not talking about the joint exercises.Are you?


Well joint exercises are a form of training, but no this is not all that Indian and foreign forces do together.

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## hkdas

levina said:


> Is Israel the only country which helps train Indian SF?


nop... we send our SF and other military forces to US, UK, and may other counters... we also have soldier exchange programs with US.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Not exactly true- you can see the NSG use attack dogs for taking down hostiles.



I am talking about Para,Garud and Marcos..if you have any pics you can share.


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## Jason bourne

Who is she ? Guarding PM at bjp headquarter...I mean NSG or Delhi Police ? @Abingdonboy


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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> View attachment 137308
> 
> 
> Who is she ? Guarding PM at bjp headquarter...I mean NSG or Delhi Police ? @Abingdonboy


No way is she NSG and I doubt SPG because I haven't seen a MP-5 in use with them for a long time now. I'm going to make an educated guess and say Delhi Police.

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## special

Jason bourne said:


> View attachment 137308
> 
> 
> Who is she ? Guarding PM at bjp headquarter...I mean NSG or Delhi Police ? @Abingdonboy


she is not form SPG.. she is just a personal form Delhi police.. deployed to secure BJP office ahead of PM's arrival.

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## bloo

What are the Para Commandos wearing on their back, is it just a compact bag or a bullet proof vest of sorts?

Also, didn't know that the Para Commandos used wall radar, awesome.

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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> What are the Para Commandos wearing on their back, is it just a compact bag or a bullet proof vest of sorts?
> .


It's called a "camel pack":








Designed to allow the user hands free access to their water and the ability to store far greater quantities than the traditional water bottle.

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## Abingdonboy

Modi arriving at Rashtapati Bhawan during Xi Jinxing's visit:

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## RKO

bloo said:


> What are the Para Commandos wearing on their back, is it just a compact bag or a bullet proof vest of sorts?
> 
> Also, didn't know that the Para Commandos used wall radar, awesome.


why dont they wear helmets at all??
@Abingdonboy


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## Abingdonboy

RKO said:


> why dont they wear helmets at all??
> @Abingdonboy


The Para (SF) have traditionally preferred not to use helmets as they felt it would slow them down. They have started using helmets more extensively in the past few years and soon that will become their SOP, most likely when they get a new generation of lightweight helmets (like FASTs).


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## RKO

Abingdonboy said:


> The Para (SF) have traditionally preferred not to use helmets as they felt it would slow them down. They have started using helmets more extensively in the past few years and soon that will become their SOP, most likely when they get a new generation of lightweight helmets (like FASTs).


bt when?? btw what about garuds!!


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## Abingdonboy

RKO said:


> bt when?? btw what about garuds!!


Garuds, being a younger force, seem to have adopted the "helmet culture" whilst the PARA (SF) are not all onboard right now . In the next 3-4 years this should change as they get their new equipment that includes a new generation helmet.

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## RKO

Abingdonboy said:


> Garuds, being a younger force, seem to have adopted the "helmet culture" whilst the PARA (SF) are not all onboard right now . In the next 3-4 years this should change as they get their new equipment that includes a new generation helmet.


thnx for ur time!!!

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA COMMANDOS

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## special

> Defence Acquisition Council
> also approved the purchase of equipments for special operations for the Navy which remained classified.
> Sources said it is basically for the elite Naval commandos Marcos.
> it is said that accusation of two midget sub for marcos is also cleared..




Read more at: Centre gives nod to defence projects worth Rs 80,000 crore : India, News - India Today


Breaking News : 80000 Cr Defence Deals Cleared | idrw.org

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## hkdas

_The Malinois, a litter of an Israeli male Malinois crossed with an Amercian bitch, shot to international fame when it was reported that the dogs of the breed assisted the US special forces, the Navy SEALs, in sniffing out bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad in Pakistan in 2011. Photo: Reuters_


A special breed of military canine that is credited to have helped US Navy SEALs in sniffing out al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden's hideout in Pakistan, is now part of the country's elite counter-terror and counter-hijack commando operations force NSG.

The special actions force has recently inducted and trained close to a dozen of these four-footed soldiers called-- the Belgian Malinois-- and they will form an essential part of counter-terrorist operations that the 'black cat' commandos of the National Security Guard (NSG) undertake in the future.

"These dogs are the latest inductions that have been done in the operations wing of the NSG. Special forces world over have understood the importance of these dogs in lethal terror operations and hence the force also has inducted close to a dozen of these combat canines," an NSG officer working in its special 'K9' dog squad said.

The dog, which has a heavy snout and a big head, can detect suspect human presence, explosives and Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) with a precise correctness and it is intelligent enough to communicate these signals through a nod of his head and not by barking which could lead to alerting of the target, the officer said.

NSG officials said the commandos, till now, had been operating with other dog breeds like German Shepherd and Labradors but the new canine companion will give them the "required edge" in special operations.

The NSG is the mandated federal counter-terror and counter-hijack special operations force of the country which is deployed to undertake swift, lethal and precision tasks in combating situations like the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

The force has also trained special handlers for these dogs who will remain on standby with each of the commando strike units of the NSG.

The Malinois, a litter of an Israeli male Malinois crossed with an Amercian bitch, shot to international fame when it was reported that the dogs of the breed assisted the US special forces, the Navy SEALs, in sniffing out bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad in Pakistan in 2011.

The coarser looking breed is preferred for infantry patrols and commando operations because of its ability to perform and deliver good results in high-risk tasks in difficult terrains and harsh climate areas.

In India, this breed of dog was first inducted by border guarding force ITBP (Indo-Tibetan Border Police) in 2011 for working in special counter-insurgency areas.



Read more at: NSG inducts dog breed that sniffed out Osama's hideout in Pak : India, News - India Today


----------



## hkdas

A very rare photo of 9 Para sf at mountain top with dead bodies of pakistani soldiers in kargil

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> A very rare photo of 9 Para sf at mountain top with dead bodies of pakistani soldiers in kargil



If anyone ever gets a chance to meet a 9 Para operator..ask them on which is the worlds best SF..and i bet the operator will say Israelis and 9th Para after that.

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## RPK

hkdas said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR...
> do our Army sf use dogs which are trained like US navy seals's dog ?? even BSF and CRPF cobras uses these kind of dogs during operations..
> 
> 
> 
> you can see a camera and a headphone on that dog... similar to that of US military dogs



His name is Vijya kumar IPS

K. Vijay Kumar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> If anyone ever gets a chance to meet a 9 Para operator..ask them on which is the worlds best SF..and i bet the operator will say Israelis and 9th Para after that.


why only 9th para!!?? what about 1,2,3,4,9,10, 11 and 21 paras??



RPK said:


> His name is Vijya kumar IPS
> 
> K. Vijay Kumar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## danish_vij

Abingdonboy said:


> It's called a "*camel pack*":
> .


its "*camelbak" *i guess u can correct me if wrong
**

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## Abingdonboy

danish_vij said:


> its "*camelbak" *i guess u can correct me if wrong
> **


You are correct mate! Must've got the names mixed up.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> why only 9th para!!?? what about 1,2,3,4,9,10, 11 and 21 paras??



9 para trained with Israelis in Israel hence the loyalty.1st and 4rth train with US so they will say US has the best sf...Marcos say seals are the best.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The Para (SF) have traditionally preferred not to use helmets as they felt it would slow them down. They have started using helmets more extensively in the past few years and soon that will become their SOP, most likely when they get a new generation of lightweight helmets (like FASTs).



Mate,having talked to some Para SF guys recently i doubt they are ever gonna wear a helmet in operations anywhere except urban theatre.

They like to travel light and believe in fitness and stamina as their best protection and agility as the best weapon.

Expect big modernisation for Nsg in the kit and equipment.And i believe it will be the first special force/unit to get Fast helmet and a big upgrade followed by Marcos and Para.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mate,having talked to some Para SF guys recently


Very cool! Are you able to share any tidbits of information you gleaned from these guys mate?



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Expect big modernisation for Nsg in the kit and equipment.And i believe it will the first special force/unit to get Fast helmet and a big upgrade followed by Marcos and Para.



I don't know about the NSG (yes they got a bigger budget now but they just got those new helmets about 3-4 years back, I don't know if they're gonna get new helmets anytime soon) but I do think the Garuds and MARCOs are likely to get these next generation helmets imminently and the PARA (SF) probably sometime after that.


----------



## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mate,having talked to some Para SF guys recently i doubt they are ever gonna wear a helmet in operations anywhere except urban theatre.
> 
> They like to travel light and believe in fitness and stamina as their best protection and agility as the best weapon.
> 
> Expect big modernisation for Nsg in the kit and equipment.And i believe it will be the first special force/unit to get Fast helmet and a big upgrade followed by Marcos and Para.



Whats the weight of modern FAST helmets anyways? What about head protection? The head is the most vital part to protect... splinters, shrapnel etc can knock you out of combat within splitseconds without head protection. Apart from that modern helmets provide a better base for communications and accessories like NVG`s....

Its kinda hard to believe that they dont like to wear them because they are too heavy....


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Very cool! Are you able to share any tidbits of information you gleaned from these guys mate?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about the NSG (yes they got a bigger budget now but they just got those new helmets about 3-4 years back, I don't know if they're gonna get new helmets anytime soon) but I do think the Garuds and MARCOs are likely to get these next generation helmets imminently and the PARA (SF) probably sometime after that.



Tidbits about probation period and how they managed..no operational info.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tidbits about probation period and how they managed..no operational info.


Anything you can share bro? And was it a case of them not willing to disclose operational stuff or you not asking about such stuff?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Whats the weight of modern FAST helmets anyways? What about head protection? The head is the most vital part to protect... splinters, shrapnel etc can knock you out of combat within splitseconds without head protection. Apart from that modern helmets provide a better base for communications and accessories like NVG`s....
> 
> Its kinda hard to believe that they dont like to wear them because they are too heavy....



They are 20% lighter and come with rails and add more flexibilty.

buddy in a 70km march you have to even think about carrying 500gms extra.



Abingdonboy said:


> Anything you can share bro? And was it a case of them not willing to disclose operational stuff or you not asking about such stuff?



No point asking them 

They told about how the recruits are divided into one team which is left in a jungle who are ambushed on the 7th day after bein left hungry for days.

The guys doing the ambush are the blue team or SF operators who capture them and then beat the hell out of them in interrogation.

Those who reveal the secrets are treated well but failed...those who dont are treated more badly.

Those who dont give up for a week of interrogation and hunger are inducted and trained for 1 yr or more before being called a operator.

This happens in a himalayan town i wont name.

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## hkdas

*Indian Navy To Get 2 Swimmer Delivery Subs*





In the latest in a long and tantalisingly unclear saga, the Indian Navy was cleared last week to procure two mini submersibles -- swimmer delivery vehicles (SDVs) -- for special operations in shallow water. Naval documents on the programme that I've had a chance to see list the mission profiles as "(a) insertion and extraction of combat teams for multipurpose special operations, (b) reconnaissance and intelligence gathering, (c) special battle rescue operations and (d) multipurpose inspection." The documents also suggest the SDV will carry a combat team of 4-6 in addition to the two-man pilot crew.

The picture above is of an SDV being developed in-house by L&T that the company told me would be offered to the Indian Navy. It isn't clear at what stage of development the submersible is. Scant reports over the years have suggested that the SDVs the navy gets will be built at the troubled Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam, though it isn't fully clear which SDVs these are, and whether they've been developed yet. More information soon.

Livefist: Indian Navy To Get 2 Swimmer Delivery Subs




COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They are 20% lighter and come with rails and add more flexibilty.
> 
> buddy in a 70km march you have to even think about carrying 500gms extra.
> 
> 
> 
> No point asking them
> 
> They told about how the recruits are divided into one team which is left in a jungle who are ambushed on the 7th day after bein left hungry for days.
> 
> The guys doing the ambush are the blue team or SF operators who capture them and then beat the hell out of them in interrogation.
> 
> Those who reveal the secrets are treated well but failed...those who dont are treated more badly.
> 
> Those who dont give up for a week of interrogation and hunger are inducted and trained for 1 yr or more before being called a operator.
> 
> This happens in a himalayan town i wont name.



what is the duration of probation period?? is it 6 months??

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

> what is the duration of probation period?? is it 6 months??



Didnt ask that


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> *Indian Navy To Get 2 Swimmer Delivery Subs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the latest in a long and tantalisingly unclear saga, the Indian Navy was cleared last week to procure two mini submersibles -- swimmer delivery vehicles (SDVs) -- for special operations in shallow water. Naval documents on the programme that I've had a chance to see list the mission profiles as "(a) insertion and extraction of combat teams for multipurpose special operations, (b) reconnaissance and intelligence gathering, (c) special battle rescue operations and (d) multipurpose inspection." The documents also suggest the SDV will carry a combat team of 4-6 in addition to the two-man pilot crew.
> 
> The picture above is of an SDV being developed in-house by L&T that the company told me would be offered to the Indian Navy. It isn't clear at what stage of development the submersible is. Scant reports over the years have suggested that the SDVs the navy gets will be built at the troubled Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam, though it isn't fully clear which SDVs these are, and whether they've been developed yet. More information soon.
> 
> Livefist: Indian Navy To Get 2 Swimmer Delivery Subs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what is the duration of probation period?? is it 6 months??





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Didnt ask that


More info on the PARA (SF)'s selection/training process including the dreaded "hell week":

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Making of Predators: Taking a soldier beyond his physical and mental limits

Indian Special Forces | Page 237

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS AND BDS TEAM ALONG WITH NIA AT THE SITE OF KHAGRAGARH BOMB BLAST

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS

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## Cat Shannon

looks good !

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG COMMANDOS AND BDS TEAM ALONG WITH NIA AT THE SITE OF KHAGRAGARH BOMB BLAST




Ancient helmets and running shoes?! 

Seriously? Please tell me that guy is not from the NSG


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Ancient helmets and running shoes?!
> 
> Seriously? Please tell me that guy is not from the NSG



NSG Bomb squad not SAG operator.

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Ancient helmets and running shoes?!
> 
> Seriously? Please tell me that guy is not from the NSG


What you see are EOD and some operators from the local NSG hub who look to be providing perimeter security. Naturally they haven't gone fully kitted up (they are wearing baseball caps). I'm assuming that the hubs will be receive the latest kit after the main CT task force and units based in the NCR receive it.

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They are 20% lighter and come with rails and add more flexibilty.
> 
> buddy in a 70km march you have to even think about carrying 500gms extra.



Yes, weight reduction is important... but the risk of messing up your head (which simply is the MOST VITAL part of your body) does not seem to be less important than weight reduction. One object ... one nasty fall and its over.
I still feel that they would wear more modern light weight helmets if they had them.......

Are there any other SF units around there which do not use helmets in the way like our SF units?

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Yes, weight reduction is important... but the risk of messing up your head (which simply is the MOST VITAL part of your body) does not seem to less important than weight reduction. One object ... one nasty fall and its over.
> I still feel that they would wear more modern light weight helmets if they had them.......
> 
> Are there any other SF units around there which do not use helmets in the way like our SF units?


As you say, it is about what equipment they have currently- it isn't really up to the mark and are still too heavy. Once the next generation of lighter helmet is inducted by them you'll seem them with it much more often.

If you look back, many leading SOFs had a similar ethos- SAS, Delta, SEALS etc who all used to sport flat caps and such until recently when the nature of their operations became much more urban-centric and thus required lighter helmets for which new products came out and have now been adopted.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Yes, weight reduction is important... but the risk of messing up your head (which simply is the MOST VITAL part of your body) does not seem to be less important than weight reduction. One object ... one nasty fall and its over.
> I still feel that they would wear more modern light weight helmets if they had them.......
> 
> Are there any other SF units around there which do not use helmets in the way like our SF units?


In Vietnam,SF did not use helmets.And same goes for some units conducting raids in desert.Iran embassy mission is another example.


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> In Vietnam,SF did not use helmets.And same goes for some units conducting raids in desert.Iran embassy mission is another example.



Yes, I had the same in mind... that was decades ago... there are much much lighter and better alternatives available today. 

If they had them, they would wear them.... thats what I guess


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Yes, I had the same in mind... that was decades ago... there are much much lighter and better alternatives available today.
> 
> If they had them, they would wear them.... thats what I guess



Back then no one wore bulky helmets and there were no light weight options..exactly what is the situation with Indian SF.

Then in early 90s US SF operators with a background of skateboarding started wearing skateboard helmets and elbow/knee guards...not to protect against the bullet but a fall from the helicopter.

Fast helmets are a modified version of the skateboard helmet with options for NVG and others rails and yeah it is bulletproof.

Indian SF currently do not have any FAST helmets except 1 Para officer who did not have rails.But with exercises being carried out with foreign SF and budget increase it is a pretty safe bet to say that you will get to see Indian SF with them.

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## Abingdonboy

Indian Navy MARCOs (the ones in the grey camo-UCP) during joint Indo-Brazilian-South African naval exercise, IBSAMAR III, in 2012:

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## hkdas

*Joint Sri Lanka-India Military Exercise ‘Mithra Shakthi’ At Uva-Kudaoya*



Elevating existing relations to new heights and marking the start of a new era of neighbourly understanding and close cooperation between both organizations, a contingent of 42 Indian Army Special Force troops, is to launch the training ‘Exercise - Mithra Shakthi’ at Uva-Kudaoya Commando Regiment Training School (CRTS), beginning Monday (3), together with a corresponding Sri Lankan contingent of Special Forces and Commandos, along with Navy and Air Force personnel. 

The ‘Exercise - Mithra Shakthi’, an initiative, designed largely by the Indian Army is the successful outcome of the ‘Annual Defence Dialogue’ (ADD) that was co-chaired in Colombo early October by both R.K Mathur, Indian Defence Secretary and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, Secretary to Ministry of Defence and Urban Development. 



The Exercise, meant purely to share knowledge and experience between Special Operation Forces of both Sri Lanka and Indian Armies through enhancement of interoperability, joint efforts and mutual exchange of Special Operation tactics, saw its implementation on the directions of the Commander of the Army Lieutenant General Daya Ratnayake. 



168 officers and other ranks from Sri Lanka Army Special Forces and Commando Regiment, accompanied by 16 officers and other ranks from Sri Lanka Navy and 16 officers and other ranks from Sri Lanka Air Force, together with all 42 Indian Army Special Force troops, will participate in the Exercise until 23 November 2014. 



The modalities for the three-week long Exercise have been closely coordinated through the Directorate of Army Training at the Army Headquarters in consultation with the corresponding authorities. 



The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to this effect, was signed between Captain Prakash Gopalan, Defence Adviser, High Commission of India and Brigadier Jayantha Guneratne, Director Training, Sri Lanka Army on Thursday (30) at the Army Headquarters in the presence of Major General Sumedha Perera, Director General General Staff, representing the Commander of the Army.



In the aftermath of the ADD held in January 2012, a Sri Lankan contingent of 48 service personnel took part in a similar Exercise in New Delhi, India at the invitation of the Indian Army. (SLArmy/KH) 
Joint Sri Lanka-India Military Exercise ‘Mithra Shakthi’ At Uva-Kudaoya


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Indian Navy MARCOs (the ones in the grey camo-UCP) during joint Indo-Brazilian-South African naval exercise, IBSAMAR III, in 2012:
> 
> View attachment 141912
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 141913
> 
> 
> View attachment 141914
> 
> View attachment 141915


Ibsamar naval exercise ends on dramatic note | defenceWeb
Exercise IBSAMAR III at Saldanha | Facebook

IBSAMAR - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## hkdas

Ibsamar IV set for October | defenceWeb

any pics??


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> Ibsamar IV set for October | defenceWeb
> 
> any pics??


The Exercise is running for more than 3 weeks, the main part of the exercise has barely got underway yet, AFAIK that will be in the next 10 days. I've been checking pretty regularly, nothing other than pics of the ships of each nation arriving in port yet. The joint SF exercises will be happening towards the end of this 10 days.


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## Abingdonboy

Going in the right direction:

Mulayam, Lalu may lose their NSG cover - Hindustan Times

That Jayalalitha (a convicted criminal) and Mayawati still receive this cover is absolutely disgusting though.

Within 5 years I think the NSG can be down to 6/7 protectees and within a decade none, meaning the SRG can be all but got ride of (except for a small contingent for support roles) then the majority of the budget (which has already been increased) can go to SAG. NSG is set to see some very good days...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Going in the right direction:
> 
> Mulayam, Lalu may lose their NSG cover - Hindustan Times
> 
> That Jayalalitha (a convicted criminal) and Mayawati still receive this cover is absolutely disgusting though.
> 
> Within 5 years I think the NSG can be down to 6/7 protectees and within a decade none, meaning the SRG can be all but got ride of (except for a small contingent for support roles) then the majority of the budget (which has already been increased) can go to SAG. NSG is set to see some very good days...



Mayawati,mulayam,lallu,sharad pawar,rahul sonia priyanka and vadra should be hanged and manmohan should be life imprisoned.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS ON INS VIKRAMADITYA
SEE THEY ARE USING TAVORS WITH AKS MEPRO MOR ON TAVORS AND RED DOT ON AKs
THAT IS WHAT I GUESS IS LETHAL COMBINATION




@hkdas here we go

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 143723
> View attachment 143724
> View attachment 143725
> View attachment 143726
> View attachment 143727
> View attachment 143728
> View attachment 143729
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS ON INS VIKRAMADITYA
> SEE THEY ARE USING TAVORS WITH AKS MEPRO MOR ON TAVORS AND RED DOT ON AKs
> THAT IS WHAT I GUESS IS LETHAL COMBINATION


nice pics bro, can you post the link?? is any video available??

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 143723
> View attachment 143724
> View attachment 143725
> View attachment 143726
> View attachment 143727
> View attachment 143728
> View attachment 143729
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS ON INS VIKRAMADITYA
> SEE THEY ARE USING TAVORS WITH AKS MEPRO MOR ON TAVORS AND RED DOT ON AKs
> THAT IS WHAT I GUESS IS LETHAL COMBINATION
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @hkdas here we go


What video is this from bro?


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## osama zafar

Sadly black cats are not that efficient.


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## hkdas

osama zafar said:


> Sadly black cats are not that efficient.


can you explain your statement??


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## hkdas

@Unknowncommando thanks for that video....

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## Gessler

hkdas said:


> can you explain your statement??



Do you think he intends to?  Dude you gotta know a troll/flame baiter when you see one.

Even if you ask him, all he explains is some blah blah blah that makes zero sense and is factually flawed.


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## hkdas

Gessler said:


> Do you think he intends to?  Dude you gotta know a troll/flame baiter when you see one.
> 
> Even if you ask him, all he explains is some blah blah blah that makes zero sense and is factually flawed.



bro, i know it was a troll attempt....

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## Gessler

hkdas said:


> bro, i know it was a troll attempt....



Then report it...replying will only immortalize the troll's post.

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## hkdas

Gessler said:


> Then report it...replying will only immortalize the troll's post.


report to who?? this is their defense form... no action is going to take against them even if i reports that... the rules in here is only for indians...

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## Gessler

hkdas said:


> report to who?? this is their defense form... no action is going to take against them even if i reports that... the rules in here is only for indians...



Yes, but still no need to reply.

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## hkdas

Gessler said:


> Yes, but still no need to reply.


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## hkdas

@Abingdonboy is this your work??... The Sponge

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

osama zafar said:


> Sadly black cats are not that efficient.



Ya man..i agree.

Hey..why doesnt the Indian SF ever surrender or has a failed operation in the past?


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> @Abingdonboy is this your work??... The Sponge


Yeah mate, that's me

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS OLD PICS DURING REHEARSAL OF NAVY DAY
@Abingdonboy i already posted the vid along with pics bro.

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## Koovie

osama zafar said:


> Sadly black cats are not that efficient.




Hey Mr. Troll... do you actually have ANY form of proof to back up your claim? 

I guess no.... you just want to look stupid, right?

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## osama zafar

Koovie said:


> Hey Mr. Troll... do you actually have ANY form of proof to back up your claim?
> 
> I guess no.... you just want to look stupid, right?


I do and i planned to share it but of course you will never accept it so no use 



hkdas said:


> can you explain your statement??


I do and i planned to share it but of course you will never accept it so no use


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## kurup

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 143723



Looks like there are 2 different camo used by them ....


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## hkdas

osama zafar said:


> I do and i planned to share it but of course you will never accept it so no use



share it... we will certainly accept if it is not a BS..


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## Koovie

osama zafar said:


> I do and i planned to share it but of course you will never accept it so no use
> 
> 
> I do and i planned to share it but of course you will never accept it so no use



Share it.... and then we will see.


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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> Looks like there are 2 different camo used by them ....


Nope, same camo (the UCP) just the quality of the pictures isn't great because they are screen grabs from a non HD video.

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## osama zafar

Koovie said:


> Share it.... and then we will see.


Post messege me and ill share it with you its confidential.


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## Foo_Fighter



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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs (in the Grey UCP) during IBSAMAR IV (2014):

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## Unknowncommando

Members of the SA Special Forces, MRS, Brazillian Navy and Indian Navy Boarding SAS Umhloti during exercise
INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## special

@Abingdonboy, @Unknowncommando, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
from 00:00 to 00:24.. is that indian SF(marcos)?? the aircraft seems to be c-130 to me... that video was uploaded in 2010, we don't have c-130s at that time... those soldiers is in UCP(same as our marcos's camo).... so what you guys think?? later part of the video is taken form nahan which was never shown before.. so this may not be a fan boy work...


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## Capt.Popeye

special said:


> @Abingdonboy, @Unknowncommando, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> from 00:00 to 00:24.. is that indian SF(marcos)?? the aircraft seems to be c-130 to me... that video was uploaded in 2010, we don't have c-130s at that time... those soldiers is in UCP(same as our marcos's camo).... so what you guys think?? later part of the video is taken form nahan which was never shown before.. so this may not be a fan boy work...



That seems to be a "cut-paste" video. To start with, the aircraft is a C-17, not a C-130. Neither are the jumpers in the early part of the visuals, Marcos.

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## special

Capt.Popeye said:


> That seems to be a "cut-paste" video. To start with, the aircraft is a C-17, not a C-130. Neither are the jumpers in the early part of the visuals, Marcos.



it is not c17.. cabin width of c-17 is much wider than that...




130




il 76...





so i think it is c-130...


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## Koovie

special said:


> @Abingdonboy, @Unknowncommando, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> from 00:00 to 00:24.. is that indian SF(marcos)?? the aircraft seems to be c-130 to me... that video was uploaded in 2010, we don't have c-130s at that time... those soldiers is in UCP(same as our marcos's camo).... so what you guys think?? later part of the video is taken form nahan which was never shown before.. so this may not be a fan boy work...



Ehhm that video was put on Youtube in 2010....... and we got the C 17s after 2010 ...... have you noticed the problem? 

The other parts are pretty interesting though

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> @Abingdonboy, @Unknowncommando, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> from 00:00 to 00:24.. is that indian SF(marcos)?? the aircraft seems to be c-130 to me... that video was uploaded in 2010, we don't have c-130s at that time... those soldiers is in UCP(same as our marcos's camo).... so what you guys think?? later part of the video is taken form nahan which was never shown before.. so this may not be a fan boy work...



I have seen this earlier and share the same doubts as you...Althought the initial part seem to be US SOF now.


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## special

Koovie said:


> Ehhm that video was put on Youtube in 2010....... and* we got the C 17s after 2010 ...... have you noticed the problem?*
> 
> The other parts are pretty interesting though



bro, watch videos of yudh abhyass 2010... you can see similar jumps...

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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have seen this earlier and share the same doubts as you...Althought the initial part seem to be US SOF now.



you can see black shoes along with Swimfin in that video.... US SOF didn't use black colored shoes during training....


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## Koovie

special said:


> bro, watch videos of yudh abhyass 2010... you can see similar jumps...



Oh! Yeah.... they might be Paras jumping from USAF C 17s... makes sense.


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## special

Koovie said:


> Oh! Yeah.... they might be Paras jumping from USAF C 17s... makes sense.


yes.. it is USAF c-17....


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## Abingdonboy

The SPG transported 2 of their BMW 760Li Security Sedans to Mynamar for the PM's visit there.


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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> The SPG transported 2 of their BMW 760Li Security Sedans to Mynamar for the PM's visit there.



How do they do that?

By a military plane or through a commercial cargo plane.


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## IndoUS

bloo said:


> How do they do that?
> 
> By a military plane or through a commercial cargo plane.


The c17 transport US president,s car fleet, so they might have used them.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The SPG transported 2 of their BMW 760Li Security Sedans to Mynamar for the PM's visit there.



This time i saw AI pilots flying the 747.


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## Abingdonboy

IndoUS said:


> The c17 transport US president,s car fleet, so they might have used them.


Well IAF cargo planes were used to get the SPG's 760Lis and 2 mobile jammers (TATA Safari) to Bhutan and Nepal so I assume they used IAF planes once again. Don't know if they'd use C-17s or IL-76 but that is really the IAF's call based on the availability of their assets.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS ON INS VIRAAT










INDIAN NAVY MARCO




SPG

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 152339
> View attachment 152340
> View attachment 152341
> View attachment 152342
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS ON INS VIRAAT
> View attachment 152357
> View attachment 152358
> View attachment 152359
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPG


Got the link to the video bro?


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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS
@Abingdonboy yes bro i am searching for the vids actually i directly took many snaps from vids at the time i saw so i will post the vids later

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG COMMANDOS
> @Abingdonboy yes bro i am searching for the vids actually i directly took many snaps from vids at the time i saw so i will post the vids later


Got it, It's from about three years ago:

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## Abingdonboy

@IndoUS @bloo @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR 



> An Indian Air Force aircraft has arrived in the country this morning ahead of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit on Wednesday. The aircraft is an Illyushin 76MD known as the Gajraj or King Elephant in the Indian Air Force which forms the strategic/heavy transport fleet. It has brought vehicles believed to be bullet proof for Modi’s entourage as well as his advanced security team. Modi who has been described as India’s political rock star is the first Indian Prime Minister to visit the country in 33 years. - See more at: FBC News



FBC News

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## Abingdonboy

One of the SPG's 760Li in Fiji for the PM's visit there:












Also, Interestingly Modi flew from India to Australia by the Air India 747 but flew from Australia to Fiji and then Fiji to India by IAF BBJ:

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## Abingdonboy

The SPG's 760Lis in Fiji:






































Never seen the emergency lights turned on these vehicles- pretty cool sight!

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## Abingdonboy

> *“That’s our practice — wherever possible, we take our own cars*, and in the case where that’s not possible, our missions arrange for the armoured BMW for the PM,” an official said. “We don’t depend on our hosts for cars for the PM.”



If itâs BMW from India, Sharif will not ride it


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> If itâs BMW from India, Sharif will not ride it



Posted in the wrong thread kiddo..


----------



## special

looks like some fan boy stuff .
Indian Aerospace/Defense News: Truth about Indian "Special Forces" Role in Kargil War


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Posted in the wrong thread kiddo..


Nope, we discuss matter retaliating to the SPG on this thread, and that matter referred to the SPG's operations outside of India. It was entirely intentional.

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## Abingdonboy

The PM's motorcade departing from Delhi airport after returning home from his 10 day, 3 nation trip:












































I've said it before and I'll say it again- this is one bada$$ and classy motorcade!

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## cloud_9

Ewwww! The @WebMaster just broke the whole forum by blocking

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

cloud_9 said:


> Ewwww! The @WebMaster just broke the whole forum by blocking



I cant see anything here.


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> The PM's motorcade departing from Delhi airport after returning home from his 10 day, 3 nation trip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again- this is one bada$$ and classy motorcade!


of course dude, after all This is matter of PM of a nation with 1.25 billion people .Should look kicka$$$$
















*Cormorant Strike lll*
'Cormorant Strike lll - 2012', the joint military exercise organized by the Sri Lanka Army began today (10th September). About 2000 local tri service personnel are taking part in this exercise held for the third consecutive time.

The 16 day combined military exercise is attended by 40 foreign military personnel representing a number of countries. Participants were briefed before the operations commenced today at the Sri Lanka Army camp in Minneriya.

The eleven officers and 29 other ranks representing militaries from China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Maldives and India are here in response to the invitations extended by the Sri Lanka Army.

Exercise "Cormorant Strike" is a brainchild of Secretary Defence which involves amphibious landing followed by operation on land under simulated combat action. The exercise gives an opportunity to the different elements of the tri forces to rehearse the concept of amphibious operations and enhance own skills.

The exercise will comprise of mock raids on boat yards, amphibious landings, taking of high value targets, reconnaissance, surveillance on targets, airborne and seaborne operations, path-finding missions, ambushes, search operations, counter terrorist actions and hostage rescue mission and other military exercises.

Exercise 'Cormorant Strike - III' proper will begin with nine teams of eight-member Special Forces personnel together with trainees proceeding to Verugal area by dusk today (10th September).

Through these exercises different levels of command will be exercised improving ability of command, decision making and how they evolve different plans to match the concept already evaluated and need to put into practice.

The first joint exercise was conducted in November 2010 after the end of the humanitarian operations. 
sorry if posted before. I will remove if its an repost.
happy to see SFs from neighbouring countries training together.

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF operator during TRAL encounter

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS IBSAMAR EXERCISE

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## Roybot

Unknowncommando said:


> of course dude, after all This is matter of PM of a nation with 1.25 billion people .Should look kicka$$$$



Indian and Pakistani SF in the same room

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## Gessler

Roybot said:


> Indian and Pakistani SF in the same room



Those are IA and PLA.


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## Roybot

Gessler said:


> Those are IA and PLA.



Nope Pakistanis right next to PLA, Indian Army officers sitting on the other side, in the front row.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gessler said:


> Those are IA and PLA.



Time to change your glasses..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Unknowncommando said:


> of course dude, after all This is matter of PM of a nation with 1.25 billion people .Should look kicka$$$$
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Cormorant Strike lll*
> 'Cormorant Strike lll - 2012', the joint military exercise organized by the Sri Lanka Army began today (10th September). About 2000 local tri service personnel are taking part in this exercise held for the third consecutive time.
> 
> The 16 day combined military exercise is attended by 40 foreign military personnel representing a number of countries. Participants were briefed before the operations commenced today at the Sri Lanka Army camp in Minneriya.
> 
> The eleven officers and 29 other ranks representing militaries from China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Maldives and India are here in response to the invitations extended by the Sri Lanka Army.
> 
> Exercise "Cormorant Strike" is a brainchild of Secretary Defence which involves amphibious landing followed by operation on land under simulated combat action. The exercise gives an opportunity to the different elements of the tri forces to rehearse the concept of amphibious operations and enhance own skills.
> 
> The exercise will comprise of mock raids on boat yards, amphibious landings, taking of high value targets, reconnaissance, surveillance on targets, airborne and seaborne operations, path-finding missions, ambushes, search operations, counter terrorist actions and hostage rescue mission and other military exercises.
> 
> Exercise 'Cormorant Strike - III' proper will begin with nine teams of eight-member Special Forces personnel together with trainees proceeding to Verugal area by dusk today (10th September).
> 
> Through these exercises different levels of command will be exercised improving ability of command, decision making and how they evolve different plans to match the concept already evaluated and need to put into practice.
> 
> The first joint exercise was conducted in November 2010 after the end of the humanitarian operations.
> sorry if posted before. I will remove if its an repost.
> happy to see SFs from neighbouring countries training together.


We helped raised SLA SF...

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## nair

Stop getting personal friends........

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## Jungibaaz

Gessler said:


> Lol...some islamic jihadi is talking about upbringing to a software professional. Hadh ho gayi.



I haven't said this to you yet, I've known you for a long time. But the rules here, are different, not like the free reign you give to trolls there at your place. Fix up friend or I will personally put your name forward for a permaban.


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## kaku1

Jungibaaz said:


> I haven't said this to you yet, I've known you for a long time. But the rules here, are different, not like the free reign you give to trolls there at your place. Fix up friend or I will personally put your name forward for a permaban.



Lol, he is just a kid, bro. Still in 10th class. And his intelligence is incredible.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jungibaaz said:


> I haven't said this to you yet, I've known you for a long time. But the rules here, are different, not like the free reign you give to trolls there at your place. Fix up friend or I will personally put your name forward for a permaban.



Why dont you ask some of your countrymen to not visit this thread during those days of the month.

These insecure chaps can kindly excuse this thread.

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## Abingdonboy

Modi in Nepal for SAARC. The Motorcade includes two SPG BMW 760Lis and a Mobile Jammer based on a Tata Safari. All other vehicles are provided by the Nepali host (most of them are Indian vehicles anyway interestingly).

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## Jungibaaz

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Why dont you ask some of your countrymen to not visit this thread during those days of the month.
> 
> These insecure chaps can kindly excuse this thread.



It's an open forum. Ever heard me say, 'why don't you Indian friends keep away from this topic?' unless in certain circumstances? 
I don't govern what people do and how they provoke each other, it's debate and mud slinging, but when it violates rules is when I step in.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jungibaaz said:


> It's an open forum. Ever heard me say, 'why don't you Indian friends keep away from this topic?' unless in certain circumstances?
> I don't govern what people do and how they provoke each other, it's debate and mud slinging, but when it violates rules is when I step in.


I know 1 Pakistani here who is the biggest troll on this thread...why dont you ban him feom posting in this thread like you do elsewhere.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Modi in Nepal for SAARC. The Motorcade includes two SPG BMW 760Lis and a Mobile Jammer based on a Tata Safari. All other vehicles are provided by the Nepali host (most of them are Indian vehicles anyway interestingly).



Air force pilots dont fly 747 by the way...i asked someone.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Air force pilots dont fly 747 by the way...i asked someone.


Indeed, they are AI pilots but the plane is checked by and controlled by the IAF when used for PM travel. Another reason why the IAF needs to own the replacement long range VVIP aircraft for which the hunt is on right now. No more of this needless borrowing from Air India. I'm actually pretty sure this will happen, it makes fiscal sense swell as being more safe.


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## Abingdonboy

Modi in Nepal for SAARC:


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## Abingdonboy

SPG's 760Li in Nepal after the presenting of ALH Mk.3 ceremony to the Nepalese Army by PM Modi


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## Abingdonboy

Some more Modi in Nepal for SAARC:


----------



## cloud_9



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## cloud_9

Poor fellows responsible for his security.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

cloud_9 said:


> Poor fellows responsible for his security.



He will die like JFK with this behaviour.

BTW what makes him so poplular among Nepalese?


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## cloud_9

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He will die like JFK with this behaviour.
> 
> BTW what makes him so poplular among Nepalese?


But he is pretty random and hopefully jihadis are bad at probability.
Got no clue why he is famous among Nepalis but that lady wasn't anticipating this and looks like she was impressed.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Guys,never seen before 26/11 NSG video released which is shot by commandos.

I am at work and have no access to laptop.

Someone please do the honours.

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando @cloud_9 @Koovie 

Source is Headlines Today.

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## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Guys,never seen before 26/11 NSG video released which is shot by commandos.
> 
> I am at work and have no access to laptop.
> 
> Someone please do the honours.
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando @cloud_9



Where ??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

kurup said:


> Where ??



Headlines Today..tune in now.


----------



## kurup

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Headlines Today..tune in now.



This is the link ...... I can't embed it .

| Video | Recalling 26/11: Unseen footage of Nariman House | India Videos | - India Today

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## kurup

^^^^^^ Video from AAJ TAK ,

26/11 हमला: NSG का बनाया अनदेखा वीडियो: AAJ TAK: Video


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## Daedalus

A never seen before video footage shot by National security Guards on 26/11 at Nariman House in Mumbai. On 26th November in 2008, a series bombing attacks were carried out by Lashkar-e-Taiba in Mumbai.

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## Abingdonboy

Daedalus said:


> .


The assessment by the author at the end that nothing has been learnt after 26/11 is so incredibly wrong. At all levels lessons have been learnt and implemented- ICG, Marine police, local police, state police and NSG. All are now better equipped, trained and prepared to deal with another attack of this kind (god forbid). His assertion that because no central report has come out ignores that face that the individual stakeholders have conducted internal commissions and reports.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He will die like JFK with this behaviour.
> 
> BTW what makes him so poplular among Nepalese?


I agree, he is making the job of his security incredibly hard. But to be fair the risks of a JFK type event happening are remote because this was a random stop so no one could have known ahead of time that he would be out of the car at that location ahead of time. But yes, it is an unnecessary risk.

You can see the SPG trying to get him back in the car but he walks past and to the other side and then the SPG are moving the 760Li around so as to lesson Modi's exposure.


----------



## noksss

*26/11 will always be remembered for the courage displayed by our security forces in overcoming the siege at the Taj Mahal hotel, Oberoi and Chabad House in Mumbai. 
For the elite National Security Guard, which was called in to defeat the terrorists, fighting a battle in unfamiliar terrain came with a heavy price attached: The loss of two commandos, Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan at the Taj and Havildar Gajender Singh Bisht at Chabad House.
In his book Black Tornado, The 3 Sieges of Mumbai, journalist Sandeep Unnithan, who has been covering internal security for India Today magazine, unearths fresh details of the NSG operation, the elite force's epic resolve to win the battle.*
At 1 am, on 28 November, Major Sandeep led his hit team, Sunil Jodha, Manoj Kumar, Babu Lal and Kishor Kumar through the _piece de resistance_ of the Taj: The grand staircase -- a single, long staircase split into two like a Y.
At the landing between the two arms, sat a garlanded bronze bust of Jamshetji Nusserwanji Tata, founder of the Tata business empire and the man who built the Taj in 1903. Tata wore a _phenta_, the traditional Parsi black cap, and stared sternly into the distance. Behind the bust was a large entrance to the Palm Lounge that had long since been boarded up and covered by a huge mirror.
The staircase was pitch dark. The fire brigade had poured thousands of litres of water at the fires in the Taj. The water now seeped down the floors and dripped into the cavernous staircase area. The sound of dripping water added to the eeriness of the place. It was like entering a smoky jungle cave.
A thick red carpet with floral patterns was fastened to the steps by thick brass stair rods. The carpet was soggy and oozed water, which meant that the commandos' boots made a gentle squishing sound as they walked up the stairs towards the bust.
As the hit team walked up the stairs, gun flashes lit up the darkened stairway. The terrorists were firing at them from above. Unni signalled Sunil and Babu Lal, to head up left and towards the heavy brown doors that led to the Palm Lounge and the ballroom. They were to throw grenades and clear the Palm Lounge. The two commandos walked up gently, weapons drawn. They took positions on either side of the doorway. The doors were shut.
Just then, a grenade flew out of the darkness. It bounced on the carpeted staircase and exploded. An AK-47 rattled from above. Bullets drilled the staircase. They punched into the walls around the doorway, digging into the stone and plaster. The glass around Tata's bust shattered. It was an ambush.
The terrorists were on high ground. They had seen the silhouettes of the NSG men. And they had waited. The atrium was now a kill zone. Major Unnikrishnan moved under the cover fire provided by his two commandos.
Another grenade sailed out from one of the top floors and exploded on the granite floor. Over 5,000 ball bearings from the grenade blasted a deadly pattern around the staircase. Sunil Jodha's body was riddled with bullets and splinters. He collapsed and rolled back down the stairs to the foot of the bust.
The commandos took cover and blasted away at their unseen enemy. Blood oozed around Sunil's body. Two bullets had entered his chest. One had been trapped by the ceramic rifle plate on his bulletproof jacket. His left arm was lacerated with steel ball bearings. 'I'm going to lose my arm,' he thought to himself as he lay prone on the floor.
Unni rushed back to Sunil. He saw blood streaming out of his buddy's wounds. 'Take him back for first aid,' he hissed at Babu Lal. In a flash he had gone back up towards the Palm Lounge, alone.
Unni swung up his MP5 and fired a burst across the atrium. The bullets hammered into the wall. Then he bounded up the stairs leading to the other set of doors opening into the Palm Lounge. It was a terribly risky move because he didn't have a buddy to cover him.
*If he broke contact, the cat-and-mouse game would start all over again. He decided to outflank the terrorists. His running shoes made no sound. He could see the outlines of the large wicker chairs and tables strewn before him.
He felt his bandolier. He only had a white flash-bang grenade left. He flicked the pin off the grenade and flung it into the lounge. The grenade exploded with a loud crack that rattled the windows. Unni dashed in. He then fired a burst at the sea-facing windows. Clear!*
He looked around the wall. A brown ornate grille in front of him covered the ballroom like metal foliage. The ballroom was his target. He held his MP5 in front of him as he swiftly charged down the corridor. To his left was a small alcove with two sofas and a circular granite tabletop. There was a flash from beneath the table and two near-simultaneous sounds -- the rattle of an AK-47 and the burst of an MP5.





*Image: The Palm Lounge where Major Unnikrishnan was killed in a firefight with the terrorists.*
'Sierra Five, Sierra Five, this is Sierra One, come in. Over.'

Colonel Sheoran's message pulsed aimlessly through the airwaves around the Taj. There was no response. 'Perhaps he is in close contact, he won't speak...' Brigadier Sisodia said. The NSG rapidly cleared the charred southern end of the hotel, the Sea Lounge on the second floor. NSG commandos now guarded all the vital access routes into the northern end of the hotel.
By 3 am on Friday, 28 November, Major Kandwal's weary team had cleared all twenty-one floors of the Taj Tower. Kandwal handed the Tower back to the Mumbai police. Four hours later, all the rooms in both hotels were cleared of potential hostages. Now the hunt for the terrorists would begin. But where was Major Unnikrishnan?
Sheoran climbed up to the fourth floor and peered down the grand staircase into the atrium below. Bodies, limp and contorted, still dotted the galleries around the atrium. '_Saabji_, look at the bodies,' one of his commandos, Havildar Digh Ram, whispered. The bodies were bloating. It had been over thirty-six hours since the terrorists had struck. The air was thick, foul and nauseating. It smelt of putrefying bodies and rotting food. The bodies could not be removed till the NSG did their 'Render Safe Procedure' to clear booby traps. For that to begin, the buildings had to be cleared of terrorists.
Sheoran, however, was searching for Unni. He looked closely at the first floor where they had made contact with the terrorists. It had four doors. One of those doors, diagonally opposite the bust, was open. The door led into the hotel. Perhaps, Unni had gone looking for the terrorists in the opposite direction.
At 6.30 am Jasrotia's radio on the roof of the residential building crackled urgently. 'Sierra Six, this is Sierra One, come to Op Centre. Over.' Sheoran needed more hands to augment the search for the missing major. The size of the teams was reduced. Jasrotia was given two hit teams and tasked to move and search the first floor.
He would start from the kitchen area where Major John, a newly inducted officer, had taken position. Sheoran's officers repeatedly dialled Unni's mobile phone. It was switched off. If Unni was in the hotel, he was being very quiet.
At around 9.30 am, Major Kandwal and Major Jasrotia retraced Unni’s steps. They advanced as a two-man buddy pair. Jasrotia aimed his MP5 in front.
Kandwal, covering the rear, aimed his MP5 above him. A black figure lay prone on the marble floor, face up.
Unni! His left leg was folded under his right. His right arm lay outstretched, left arm across his chest. His body was riddled with bullets and lay in a sticky black pool of blood. All the bullets had been fired from the left. The fatal round had pierced his head from the lower jaw and exited the skull. His walkie-talkie lay two feet away from his head. It was neatly placed on the floor, upright, switched off. The ring of a flash-bang grenade pin hung around his thumb.




*Image: NSG commandos enter the Taj lobby.
It didn't take long to figure out what happened. The terrorist had been hiding in the alcove behind the statue, crouched under the table and two sofas. He had shot the lone Black Cat as he charged down the corridor. Unni had taken a burst from an AK-47. His body had twisted around as it hit the floor. The terrorist had taken his weapons and retreated northwards into the hotel.
But the officer had not gone down without a fight. He had instinctively fired at his assailant. Bullets from Unni's MP5 were embedded on the wall and the wooden lattice. A bloodied running shoe of a terrorist lay nearby. A trail of blood led towards the ballroom. Unni had wounded the terrorist.
Kandwal reached for his mobile phone and not his walkie-talkie. No one could know that an officer was down. 'Sir, Unni no more. Confirmed.' There was a brief pause. Colonel Sheoran's voice did not betray his anguish, 'OK. Wait. I'll send someone.'
Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan became the NSG's first officer to die in combat. His death shook the 51 SAG. It was the death of a beloved colleague and a reckoning of their own mortality.
Unni's death slowed the operation at the Taj. The NSG brass reassessed their moves. They became cautious. They would not waste any more lives. His death was, however, kept away from the troops. Sheoran did not want it to affect their morale.
Major Unnikrishnan's last charge pushed the terrorists towards the restaurants at the northern end of the Taj. They could run no further.* Sheoran was determined not to let Unni's death go in vain. He moved his snipers to cover the north wing. Sheoran called down Captain Dalal and his shooters from their perch atop the Yacht Club.
Dalal instinctively knew something was wrong.
He felt a cloud over the command centre at the Taj, but asked no questions. The CO had orders for him.
Dalal was to take his two-man sniper team into a fire brigade sky lift. The Mumbai Fire Brigade's telescoping articulated platform was critical in rescuing hostages from the upper floors of the Taj. Now it would be used as a sniper perch. The platform was positioned on the road just 25 metres away from the northern corner of the hotel. Dalal and Mustafa Pathan clambered on board.
The six-square-foot cage had just enough place for three persons including the operator who manoeuvred the platform. The snipers took their bulletproof vests off and placed it in front of them to create an improvised shield. Sheoran directed Dalal to ensure the terrorists would not target the media, which had been moved to the far corner of the Gateway of India. The PSG-1 gun barrel now aimed at the Taj, wary eyes peered through its rubber-lined Hensoldt-scope, looking for the terrorists.
Next, Sheoran directed his teams to move into the ballroom.
The commandos tiptoed in. It was pitch dark. They warily tore down the thick drapes that covered the windows and began searching the room. It took them nearly five hours to complete the search. The ballroom was clean.
*Excerpted from Black Tornado, The 3 Sieges of Mumbai, by Sandeep Unnithan, with the publishers HarperCollins' permission.*

Death of a Hero: How Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan was ambushed - Rediff.com India News

@Abingdonboy as you asked . But can you give some more insight on how it took 60 hours bcoz i still couldnt figure out that part may be you or @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR can help me understand that

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## Daedalus

Abingdonboy said:


> The assessment by the author at the end that nothing has been learnt after 26/11 is so incredibly wrong. At all levels lessons have been learnt and implemented- ICG, Marine police, local police, state police and NSG. All are now better equipped, trained and prepared to deal with another attack of this kind (god forbid). His assertion that because no central report has come out ignores that face that the individual stakeholders have conducted internal commissions and reports.


You know how the Indian media is. They can go to any length to sensationalize a topic, to ratchet up TRP. 
I'm sure that jurno couldn't even have bother to check up on ground reality. And the irony is, this is the same media house which published the following report today. 
Know about Force One, the elite special commando force of Maharashtra

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## Daedalus

Soon after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks, the Maharashtra government woke up to the need of raising a special force which can protect on land, sea and air. 

Special missions require special tactful means to counter opposition armies; therefore special teams are deployed.

The 2008 Mumbai terror attacks stumped the nation.

An elite commando force was needed to protect the metropolitan city of Mumbai.

Thus, Force One was formed immediately by the Government of Maharashtra.

The team is based on the lines of National Security Guards meant for counter terrorism activities.





The specialized team was commissioned on November 24, 2009 on SRPF Ground of suburban Goregaon, Mumbai.

The special force consisted of jawans , who were part of 26/11 response team in majority.





261 personnel were selected and trained in Pune, apart from the College of Military Engineering and the High Energy Materials Research Laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The headquarters of the force is situated at Aarey Milk Colony at Goregaon in northwest Mumbai.





*M107 gun used by the commandos*
The land is spread over 96 acres.
*




M4A1 with M203 gun*

*The initial training of the soldiers was conducted by Israeli Special Forces.  




*
The main aim of the forces is to remain in action in case of any terror activities in Mumbai.

It is known for the use of specialized arms and ammunition, and rapid shooting skills.

Know about Force One, the elite special commando force of Maharashtra | Page 6


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@noksss 

Mate,most of the time was spent on travelling,knowing the ways around the hotel and planning.Executing took as long as it would for a Special Unit to clear above 500 rooms and stretched in 3 locations.

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## Abingdonboy

@noksss I think I answered this in the other thread, please go see for yourself:



Abingdonboy said:


> It's extremely unfair to criticise the time the NSG took to complete the operation. Firstly the 60 hour figure is a misrepresentation of the facts- the last terrorist had been killed many many hours before that but the 60 hour mark was when the NSG has swept all 3 locations throughly and declared them 100% clear (no IEDs, no more terrorists). Leave aside the 10 hours it took to get the NSG to Mumbai (that would not happen again) the task that confronted them was unbelievably massive and unprecedented- 1000s of rooms to be cleared, an unknown number of terrorists etc etc. Many police units around the world admitted they'd have struggled to confront the situation too.

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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR $hit like this is going to get Modi killed:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR $hit like this is going to get Modi killed:



Irresponsible behaviour...atleast think about the poor policemen not wearing body armour.One bullet goes left or right and they get killed...he dies and they get blamed.

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## SUDIP

Direct Visuals: Militants in combat with security forces near International Border along Ramban in Jammu - ABP News

guys over here there is a clip of a suad of paras dropped in that comact zone for special operation in the encounter which is just going on where i got glimps of the same FAST kind of head gear but it may be given to only a section commander as previouly seen in this thread. 

some M4s, galil sniper but with old furniture butt, i suppose our special forces specially army's para nedd 2nd phase of mordenisations.

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando can u plz took the snapshort from above vid although vid is not in a gr8 quality

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## Abingdonboy

SUDIP said:


> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando can u plz took the snapshort from above vid although vid is not in a gr8 quality




Here you go bro, one thing about the SFs- they come in ready to fight (see all the gear and supplies they come with).

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## SUDIP

Abingdonboy said:


> Here you go bro, one thing about the SFs- they come in ready to fight (see all the gear and supplies they come with).



Thanks a ton to you bro

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Here you go bro, one thing about the SFs- they come in ready to fight (see all the gear and supplies they come with).



FAST helmets are starting to be common with PARA SF officers but where are the headsets and railings?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> FAST helmets are starting to be common with PARA SF officers but where are the headsets and railings?


They can be removed very easily.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> They can be removed very easily.



Headsets??...railings only help.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Headsets??...railings only help.


I'm talking about the railings, I don't believe the SF have those headsets yet.


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## jaatram

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm talking about the railings, I don't believe the SF have those headsets yet.


@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR 

Would it be right to share the details about the para's here bros?


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## Abingdonboy

jaatram said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> Would it be right to share the details about the para's here bros?


What do you mean bro?


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## jaatram

Abingdonboy said:


> What do you mean bro?


not sure about sharing it here ... that's all I can say. Would wait till the egg hatch.


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## Abingdonboy

jaatram said:


> not sure about sharing it here ... that's all I can say. Would wait till the egg hatch.


There's not much issue in sharing/discussing details in the personal equipment of SFs but one shouldn't start talking about current operations, the specifics of SF training, current deployments etc


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## jaatram

Abingdonboy said:


> There's not much issue in sharing/discussing details in the personal equipment of SFs but one shouldn't start talking about current operations, the specifics of SF training, current deployments etc


it's somewhere between the parameters you shared.


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## bhangi bava

Abingdonboy said:


> Here you go bro, one thing about the SFs- they come in ready to fight (see all the gear and supplies they come with).


here a better video in HD start from 2:30,could u cut a better picture

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## Abingdonboy

bhangi bava said:


> here a better video in HD start from 2:30,could u cut a better picture

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## Icewolf

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR $hit like this is going to get Modi killed:



Is this in india?? Why are the streets so clean?


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## Abingdonboy

Icewolf said:


> Is this in india?? Why are the streets so clean?


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## Icewolf

Abingdonboy said:


>



No I'm not kidding its a serious question...
No where in India can the streets be so clean... Must be in Nepal right?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jaatram said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> Would it be right to share the details about the para's here bros?



I appreciate your concern but we are onky talking about some gear and accessories .

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## AUz

lol, most of it looks like bunch of junkyard guards compared to Pakistani SSGs...


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## Roybot

Icewolf said:


> No I'm not kidding its a serious question...
> No where in India can the streets be so clean... Must be in Nepal right?



It clearly says Narendra Modi in Kathmandu, now either you don't know where Kathmandu is or you can't read, which is it?

2/10 for trolling.

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## Roybot

AUz said:


> lol, most of it looks like bunch of junkyard guards compared to Pakistani SSGs...



Not everyone gets freebies from America, besides its the training that matters, the gear, not so much.

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## Icewolf

Roybot said:


> It clearly says Narendra Modi in Kathmandu, now either you don't know where Kathmandu is or you can't read, which is it?
> 
> 2/10 for trolling.



Wow Kathmandu so clean compared to india


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## Koovie

Icewolf said:


> No I'm not kidding its a serious question...
> No where in India can the streets be so clean... Must be in Nepal right?



Get over your low level dumbass education and come to India before talking BS. 

We have states here which have higher living standards than any other place on the subcontinent.

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## Koovie

AUz said:


> lol, most of it looks like bunch of junkyard guards compared to Pakistani SSGs...



Its so pathetic to see people talk when they have no clue whatsoever. The SPG is among the top VVIP protection units around the globe equipped with the latest communication systems, jammers, weapons and vehicles.


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## jarves

AUz said:


> lol, most of it looks like bunch of junkyard guards compared to Pakistani SSGs...


lol,you need to raise your IQ drastically.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA COMMANDO

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## Abingdonboy




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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


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## Abingdonboy

SPG's Counter Assault Team (CAT) in Poonch where Modi was holding a rally


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## DARIUS

Atleast better than your overnourished Ministers!!


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## DESERT FIGHTER

HeadHunter said:


> Bunch of malnourished faggots



you are going overboard man... take a little chill pill...




DARIUS said:


> Atleast better than your overnourished Ministers!!



Hey dont say a word about our ministers.. they arent fat.. they just "Stocky" .. 

p,s : you are a bangali why use pics of sikhs?

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## Brahma Bull

HeadHunter said:


> Bunch of malnourished faggots


Reported

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## HeadHunter

DARIUS said:


> Atleast better than your overnourished Ministers!!


Our ministers are the most nourished people on tax payers money

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## DARIUS

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> you are going overboard man... take a little chill pill...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dont say a word about our ministers.. they arent fat.. they just "Stocky" ..
> 
> p,s : you are a bangali why use pics of sikhs?


Have u ever heard of a certain place called Kolkata,West Bengal,India!!Educate yourself a bit about the nature of the Indian union before making sweeping statements about any Indian member
This video might enlighten you a bit.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

DARIUS said:


> Have u ever heard of a certain place called Kolkata,West Bengal,India!!



So does that make you a punjabi sikh?




> Educate yourself a bit about the nature of the Indian union before making sweeping statements about any Indian member
> This video might enlighten you a bit.



Educate yourself before "ranting"... try learning english and try to "comprehend" what the other poster "writes"... I didnt make any "sweeping" statements ... rather i "asked" you why you had the pics of punjabi sikhs as your "avatar".... and another thing.. YT is banned here...

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So does that make you a punjabi sikh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Educate yourself before "ranting"... try learning english and try to "comprehend" what the other poster "writes"... I didnt make any "sweeping" statements ... rather i "asked" you why you had the pics of punjabi sikhs as your "avatar".... and another thing.. YT is banned here...


Sikhs don't necessarily have to be Punjabi, they can be Bengali, Gujarati, Bihari etc etc. They are Indians at the end of the day it's all the same thing.

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## DARIUS

Abingdonboy said:


> Sikhs don't necessarily have to be Punjabi, they can be Bengali, Gujarati, Bihari etc etc. They are Indians at the end of the day it's all the same thing.


Please do not entertain him!!We are well aware of his intentions aren't we!!!?? Jai Hind

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## DESERT FIGHTER

What are my "intentions" (loser i even asked another member to stop trolling)... i just asked you a casual question.... you should have politely replied instead of whinning...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Sikhs don't necessarily have to be Punjabi, they can be Bengali, Gujarati, Bihari etc etc. They are Indians at the end of the day it's all the same thing.



I know sikhism is a religion but i bet its a shock even for an indian sick to see a bangali sikh... anyways tc.


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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I know sikhism is a religion but i bet its a shock even for an indian sick to see a bangali sikh... anyways tc.


Maybe it would have been a shock to me a few years ago but I have now met Sikhs from Goa, Tamil Nadu, UP, Bihar, Rajasthan and even Afghanistan.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Maybe it would have been a shock to me a few years ago but I have now met Sikhs from Goa, Tamil Nadu, UP, Bihar, Rajasthan and even Afghanistan.



I have met sikhs from KPK (just yesterday i helped a bunch of Pesh sikhs on motorway (their car broke down) coming from Lhr),Sindh and Punjab (indian aswell) but yes a bangali sikh..(Have a Punjabi (Pak) Sikh class fellow)... i bet even he would be shocked...


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## Roybot

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I know sikhism is a religion but i bet its a shock even for an indian sick to see a bangali sikh... anyways tc.



Not to forget that Sikhs are there in every major city in India.

Just like there can be a Punjabi Kashmiri, Punjabi Pashtun, Punjabi Baloch, there are Bengali Punjabis.

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## Abingdonboy

*Guys, let's stick to the topic- INDIAN SPECIAL FORCES*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Roybot said:


> Not to forget that Sikhs are there in every major city in India.
> 
> Just like there can be a Punjabi Kashmiri, Punjabi Pashtun, Punjabi Baloch, there are Bengali Punjabis.



Slight difference those people are ethnically Baluch,Kashmiri or Pashtun .. but only settlers who settled in those regions hundreds of years back... and pretty much follow a hybrid culture and mostly dominate they areas where they live.. (in most cases.. for eg... the Khetran Baluch live in Souther Punjab - but speak both (hard version of seriake and Baluchi)... anyways got it..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



The more risks you take...the lesser your luck becomes.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The more risks you take...the lesser your luck becomes.


"you've gotta be lucky all the time, they only have to be lucky once......."


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## Unknowncommando

SPG
NSG




PARAS

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## Abingdonboy

Home They Brought Her Warrior Dead: The Day Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan Died | TopYaps

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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> p,s : you are a bangali why use pics of sikhs?




Even if he isnt a Sikh, why not? Makes no sense. I can put a pic of a Manipuri to a Marathi, makes no difference.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Even if he isnt a Sikh, why not? Makes no sense. I can put a pic of a Manipuri to a Marathi, makes no difference.



You are like the billionth guy to quote that post..


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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You are like the billionth guy to quote that post..



Aab karey bhi to kya karein??Apney aisa ajeeb sa comment jo kar diya..............abhi bhugto.

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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You are like the billionth guy to quote that post..



Cause it was such a stupid comment.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Water Car Engineer said:


> Cause it was such a stupid comment.



It might seem stupid to a stupid "know it all fool" but not to a foreigner who isnt "indian" .....


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## Water Car Engineer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It might seem stupid to a stupid "know it all fool" but not to a foreigner who isnt "indian" .....




"Okay", I "understand" let's go back on "topic", because it's about "special forces".


" "

" "


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> Cause it was such a stupid comment.



Cant you see he is just doing his job of polluting this thread...have you ever read anything sane coming from his account in this thread...he is a woman who is down 365 days a year.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Cant you see he is just doing his job of polluting this thread...have you ever read anything sane coming from his account in this thread...he is a woman who is down 365 days a year.



You are polluting this forum... how about that? a simple question's causing you so much pain.. why dont you get a grip instead of your pathetic whining...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You are polluting this forum... how about that? a simple question's givin you such a retum burn... why dont you get a grip little girl instead of your pathetic whining...



I am immune to your bullshit..i eat trolls like you for breakfast in real life.As far as the comment goes..i am talking about 100 pages of history.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am immune to your bullshit..i eat trolls like you for breakfast in real life.As far as the comment goes..i am talking about 100 pages of history.



Every nerd on the Internet is a tough guy.. You are no exception .. Except just more shameless ..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Every ..ch on the Internet is a tough guy.. You are no exception .. Except just more shameless ..



Ya...and pussies like you intimidate others..look who is talking..shall i quote the bullshit you have been posting here?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Seems I intimidated you? Thunder cunt..
> 
> 
> Go fk yourself while your at it.



I dont get intimidated by ladyboys.


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## Abingdonboy

@Oscar @WebMaster a serious clean up needed on this thread.

@DESERT FIGHTER I know you are committed to ruining this thread (you've tried again and again to do it on here) hopefully the mods can ban you from this thread permanently. You never add anything constructive here.


*STICK TO INDIAN SPECIAL FORCES EVERYONE*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont get intimidated by ladyboys.


Yeah coz you are one ..


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA COMMANDOS ARNIA ENCOUNTER

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## bipi@342

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA COMMANDOS ARNIA ENCOUNTER



RR QRT


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bipi@342 said:


> RR QRT


Not at all.


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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not at all.


 
why for each and every operation like this we are calling PARA's cant the RR team handle such things without depending on them?


----------



## Hulk

Roybot said:


> It clearly says Narendra Modi in Kathmandu, now either you don't know where Kathmandu is or you can't read, which is it?
> 
> 2/10 for trolling.


Any person with even minor knowledge knows that places where heads of state visit are made clean. India has share of dirtiness does not mean it does not have clean places. Like you do not have streets full of suicide bombers. 
We also have places which might qualify in cleanest places on earth.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> why for each and every operation like this we are calling PARA's cant the RR team handle such things without depending on them?



Firstly there is no RR battalion where this operation took place.

Secondly,in Kashmir in several operations you have rightly pointed out that Para SF is deployed numbering 8-10...I believe it is similar to US Delta Force guys operating with Rangers..adds more punch and brings some varierty in tactic.

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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> why for each and every operation like this we are calling PARA's cant the RR team handle such things without depending on them?


It is a very effective tactic to bring in the SF operators (via helicopter) to these contacts, this is a tactic the IA has used to good effect across Kashmir and why you see a high mortality rate of the scumbag terrorists and very little damage to either the civilians or IA. 

As @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR this is just how the US SFs used to operate in Iraq- they would be making use of helos and would be called in for direct action missions on the bad guys.

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## jaatram

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I appreciate your concern but we are onky talking about some gear and accessories .


@Abingdonboy 

My cousin got selected for the Paras. Not sure if he would survive the training or not but if he does ... I am sure I can have some juicy details which could be shared on an open forum.

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## Abingdonboy

jaatram said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> My cousin got selected for the Paras. Not sure if he would survive the training or not but if he does ... I am sure I can have some juicy details which could be shared on an open forum.


 Very cool! Good luck to him, he's in for a rough time! What unit was he in before? And is he aiming for the SFs or a Airborne battalion?


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## jaatram

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR 
was just a lil too concerned if I mentioned it here it might affect him. Can't help it considering how a silly and stupid fcuk up/ lack of knowledge on my part kept me from joining the forces.


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## Abingdonboy

jaatram said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> was just a lil too concerned if I mentioned it here it might affect him. Can't help it considering how a silly and stupid fcuk up/ lack of knowledge on my part kept me from joining the forces.


 Better safe than sorry bro! No point in getting anyone in trouble with the Indian Mil for posting on here.

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## jaatram

Abingdonboy said:


> Very cool! Good luck to him, he's in for a rough time! What unit was he in before? And is he aiming for the SFs or a Airborne battalion?


you do know how extended families are in India, weren't on talking terms ... but will get back at you both guys with details once I get hold of him for a couple of rounds.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

jaatram said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> was just a lil too concerned if I mentioned it here it might affect him. Can't help it considering how a silly and stupid fcuk up/ lack of knowledge on my part kept me from joining the forces.


Its okay..i also try to hold up or delay sharing some information which i get.

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## bipi@342

SPG personnel demonstrating VIP security drill during the14th Raising Day celebrations of the SPG in New Delhi on April 8, 1999.

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## Abingdonboy

bipi@342 said:


> View attachment 160291


unless Vadra (scumbag) was with a member of the Gandhi family these wouldn't have been SPG guards.


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## bipi@342

Abingdonboy said:


> unless Vadra (scumbag) was with a member of the Gandhi family these wouldn't have been SPG guards.


have u seen 'are you serious' video of Vadra,that time he was not with any Gandhi family members but still he was having SPG protection according to some media


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## Abingdonboy

bipi@342 said:


> have u seen 'are you serious' video of Vadra,that time he was not with any Gandhi family members but still he was having SPG protection according to some media


Yes I've seen that, they weren't SPG. They were private security AFAIK.

----------------------------------------












PARA (SF) conduct a clearing operation in Mohra , Jammu and Kashmir after a terror attack.


Gotta respect these guys- called in when this $hit happens, always leading the way, often into the unknown.

Video of PARA (SF) clearance ops in JK:






Moving forward as a single unit, working in a slow, deliberate and methodical manner, covering each other, leap-frogging one another, overlapping fields of fire and when walking across uncleared stretches the soldier behind walking in the footsteps of the man in front- some very fine soldiering there.











Any ideas what the SF guys use at 6.41? I thought at first it was a flashbang but then there is a lot of smoke that come out of the ground afterwards. Maybe tear gas?

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Water Car Engineer @Dillinger @Capt.Popeye

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Yes I've seen that, they weren't SPG. They were private security AFAIK.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PARA (SF) conduct a clearing operation in Mohra , Jhmir after a terror attack.
> 
> 
> Gotta respect these guys- called in when this $hit happens, always leading the way, often into the unknown.
> 
> Video of PARA (SF) clearance ops in JK:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moving forward as a single unit, working in a slow, deliberate and methodical manner, covering each other, leap-frogging one another, overlapping fields of fire and when walking across uncleared stretches the soldier behind walking in the footsteps of the man in front- some very fine soldiering there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas what the SF guys use at 6.41? I thought at first it was a flashbang but then there is a lot of smoke that come out of the ground afterwards. Maybe tear gas?
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Water Car Engineer @Dillinger @Capt.Popeye



What the heck..

Now the Pakistanis on the border are gonna pay for it.

The Para SF as always are called everytime when there is a special threat.Thatswhy i favour them so much..truly among the more battle hardened and experienced SF.They were active just 1 week ago.

Regarding the drill they knew what they were doing..looked very confident.The team leader looked fcking badass (the guy ordering everyone by hand signals)..everyone will be happy to see them wearing helmets.

@Abingdonboy i think its a flashbang..the dry grass just caught fire.

My heart goes out to the families...REST IN PEACE...revenge will be taken.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What the heck..
> 
> Now the Pakistanis on the border are gonna pay for it.
> 
> The Para SF as always are called everytime when there is a special threat.Thatswhy i favour them so much..truly among the more battle hardened and experienced SF.They were active just 1 week ago.
> 
> Regarding the drill they knew what they were doing..looked very confident.The team leader looked fcking badass (the guy ordering everyone by hand signals)..everyone will be happy to see them wearing helmets.
> 
> @Abingdonboy i think its a flashbang..the dry grass just caught fire.
> 
> My heart goes out to the families...REST IN PEACE...revenge will be taken.


Indeed, brother I am certainly starting to sway to these guys! Yes the MARCOs and Garuds have their place and are doing their own operations in their respective areas but these Army SF chaps are really neck-deep in the $hit and getting their hands dirty almost on a daily basis and we will only ever hear about a fraction of a percent of the work they do. What we see today and saw last week are only the most high profile and thus televised operations they do, of course they are doing much more behinds the scenes.

Watching the SF guys do their thing was heartening-not one misstep, they looked throughly professional and well versed, this is certainly not their first outing! This is their bread and butter and they functioned with impressive efficiency.

It's unfair to detract from the MARCOs' and Garuds' operations as the men themselves do not choose where they are deployed but yes, there is certainly a soft spot in my heart for these Army SF operators.

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## anyrandom

According to bollywood....these are peaceful Haiders who attacked and killed armymen.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF IN MOHRA URi

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## Capt.Popeye

Abingdonboy said:


> Any ideas what the SF guys use at 6.41? I thought at first it was a flashbang but then there is a lot of smoke that come out of the ground afterwards. Maybe tear gas?
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Water Car Engineer @Dillinger @Capt.Popeye




My guess is: a stun grenade with tear-gas canister.
They ought to have used flame throwers too. There is nothing better than a _"Roasted Tango"_ or a _"Tandoori Terrorist"_. The best way to carry out a funeral, very kosher at that.

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## Unknowncommando

para sf in uri

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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, brother I am certainly starting to sway to these guys! Yes the MARCOs and Garuds have their place and are doing their own operations in their respective areas but these Army SF chaps are really neck-deep in the $hit and getting their hands dirty almost on a daily basis and we will only ever hear about a fraction of a percent of the work they do. What we see today and saw last week are only the most high profile and thus televised operations they do, of course they are doing much more behinds the scenes.
> 
> Watching the SF guys do their thing was heartening-not one misstep, they looked throughly professional and well versed, this is certainly not their first outing! This is their bread and butter and they functioned with impressive efficiency.
> 
> It's unfair to detract from the MARCOs' and Garuds' operations as the men themselves do not choose where they are deployed but yes, there is certainly a soft spot in my heart for these Army SF operators.



And one more things is took just 5-6 hours to kill all the terrorist and i was watching NDTV where they have highlighted that this Camp has multi-layer security ring and has a big wall which is not easy to infiltrate but they somehow got inside which is what worrying me. Also they were saying that the last week attack in the arina sector also has a similar security cover


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Capt.Popeye said:


> My guess is: a stun grenade with tear-gas canister.
> They ought to have used flame throwers too. There is nothing better than a _"Roasted Tango"_ or a _"Tandoori Terrorist"_. The best way to carry out a funeral, very kosher at that.



They fear RL the most coz they fear getting burned...something to do with their religion.


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## Koovie

I ve got no words to express my sheer amount of respect for the paratroopers!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The team leader has a beard and hair style of a filmstar..he and his team are definitely involved in under cover ops.

Such pics shouldnt have been released

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The team leader has a beard and hair style of a filmstar..he and his team are definitely involved in under cover ops.
> 
> Such pics shouldnt have been released



I couldnt see any one's face clearly in the video where did you see all the beards and hairstyles ?


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## halloweene

Smthing i'd like to say, because i know a bit this stuff.... First SFs learn humility...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> I couldnt see any one's face clearly in the video where did you see all the beards and hairstyles ?


In the pictures.


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## kṣamā

in light of current events, let's coin a new term in or sf lingo :- TT ie, Toasted Tango !!


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## Abingdonboy

halloweene said:


> Smthing i'd like to say, because i know a bit this stuff.... First SFs learn humility...


Indeed, a line I remember from an article about Indian SF:
*
"we let our actions speak for themselves and prefer to live in the shadows"*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, a line I remember from an article about Indian SF:
> *
> "we let our actions speak for themselves and prefer to live in the shadows"*



Haha yeah and i remember this line...High Performance Low Profile...and they have managed to be very low profile.Inspite of being the most active when you ask a Indian about SF.. they will either say NSG or Marcos...no one knows who they are.

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## halloweene

It is not only about discretion, it is also humility vs opponents. 3 weeks ago a firend of mine died in Mali. You can find his CV in this article (just use google translate) le portail des passionnés de l'aviation: Hommage à un héros de l'Armée de l'Air . He was humble despite his CV, but was shot by a djihadist yet...

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## hkdas

Army Special Forces after their encounter in which they killed 5 terrorists. A M4 & Tavors are visible as their primary weapons.

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## Abingdonboy

halloweene said:


> It is not only about discretion, it is also humility vs opponents. 3 weeks ago a firend of mine died in Mali. You can find his CV in this article (just use google translate) le portail des passionnés de l'aviation: Hommage à un héros de l'Armée de l'Air . He was humble despite his CV, but was shot by a djihadist yet...


Rest in peace to your friend, such warriors are the pride of their people.

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## hkdas

^^^^Indian Air Force Garud Commandos









Defence News - Terrorists in Kashmir Were Like Special Forces: Army
SRINAGAR: The Indian Army Sunday said the terrorists who killed eight soldiers and three policemen in the Kashmir Valley Friday were trained like Special Forces.

"These terrorists were highly trained like Special Forces to carry out the attacks," Lt. Gen. Subrata Saha, General Officer Commanding of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps, told reporters here.

"The kind of ammunition they were carrying shows they were in for a big haul," he said.

The terrorists had crossed the Jhelum river in Uri as the water level was low there to carry out the deadliest attacks of the day in Uri sector in Baramulla district, Gen Saha said.

The Uri attack began before dawn when a suicide squad struck at an army camp killing eight soldiers and three policemen who tried to intervene. All six terrorists were killed hours later after a gun battle.

The same day, terrorists also carried out attacks at three other places, leaving a total of 21 people dead including those killed in Uri.

"The type of infiltration and attacks ... proves these attacks were highly coordinated," Gen Saha said.

Without directly referring to the assembly polls or Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Srinagar, he said the terror attacks took place "because of the larger events taking place in Jammu and Kashmir".

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## ranjeet

hkdas said:


> View attachment 162441
> 
> ^^^^Indian Air Force Garud Commandos
> View attachment 162442
> 
> View attachment 162443
> 
> 
> Defence News - Terrorists in Kashmir Were Like Special Forces: Army
> SRINAGAR: The Indian Army Sunday said the terrorists who killed eight soldiers and three policemen in the Kashmir Valley Friday were trained like Special Forces.
> 
> "These terrorists were highly trained like Special Forces to carry out the attacks," Lt. Gen. Subrata Saha, General Officer Commanding of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps, told reporters here.
> 
> "The kind of ammunition they were carrying shows they were in for a big haul," he said.
> 
> The terrorists had crossed the Jhelum river in Uri as the water level was low there to carry out the deadliest attacks of the day in Uri sector in Baramulla district, Gen Saha said.
> 
> The Uri attack began before dawn when a suicide squad struck at an army camp killing eight soldiers and three policemen who tried to intervene. All six terrorists were killed hours later after a gun battle.
> 
> The same day, terrorists also carried out attacks at three other places, leaving a total of 21 people dead including those killed in Uri.
> 
> "The type of infiltration and attacks ... proves these attacks were highly coordinated," Gen Saha said.
> 
> Without directly referring to the assembly polls or Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Srinagar, he said the terror attacks took place "because of the larger events taking place in Jammu and Kashmir".


Kindly delete the pics with dead bodies, it's against forum rules.


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## halloweene

Abingdonboy said:


> Rest in peace to your friend, such warriors are the pride of their people.


Fairly sure he'll rest in peace, not only beacause a warrior, but because of being a warrior AND a kind, sweet man. Thanks god he had no children.

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## kbd-raaf

halloweene said:


> Fairly sure he'll rest in peace, not only beacause a warrior, but because of being a warrior AND a kind, sweet man. Thanks god he had no children.



A dying breed. My respects to him.


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## Umair Nawaz

Off-topic.

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## ranjeet

Umair Nawaz said:


> if u hadnt snubbed pak then that would have never happened. im no mulla or al qaeda or taliban. im just a student of international relations and i can speak for my int. relations POV. Its really heartening to see me all this since im also a kashmiri, but i cant do much since the RSS radicals, their influenced people in yr both military and civil bureaucracy are to blame for this. Friendly pakistan means friendly kashmiris.
> 
> Hope u understand.


Not the right thread, share your gladness in the appropriate thread and it will be replied back in kind.

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## Umair Nawaz

ranjeet said:


> Not the right thread, share your gladness in the appropriate thread and it will be replied back in kind.


ok sorry. @Major Shaitan Singh im sorry with u as well.

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## Koovie

Umair Nawaz said:


> if u hadnt snubbed pak then that would have never happened. im no mulla or al qaeda or taliban. im just a student of international relations and i can speak for my int. relations POV. Its really heartening to see me all this since im also a kashmiri, but i cant do much since the RSS radicals, their influenced people in yr both military and civil bureaucracy are to blame for this. Friendly pakistan means friendly kashmiris. Im saying this all as a pakistani citizen and as a kashmiri.
> 
> Hope u understand.



RSS influenced our military ? Oh man... here comes another one of those poor souls who was fed with BS propaganda....


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## bloo

Umair Nawaz said:


> WOW we are really speeding up our guns there 4 attacks in just 14 hrs is awesome. And now they are highly trained too with that Uri attack claiming some 11 of indian forces with lost of just 3-4 men. Thats quit a leap. Its good to see the Afghan taliban tactics against the world's best and the experience we got fighting foreigners there is paying off. Indians claimed that their forces are better trained to tackle the freedom fighters but with the kill ratio of 11:6 says something else.
> 
> Indians are paying a big prize for snubbing pakistan from talks on kashmir! and their forces are now paying that bitterly. With the passage of time that is surely to increase further. Lets see for how long RSS and Modi's arrogance will last.



Guerrilla attacks are typically advantageous for the ones attacking with lesser numbers and having the element of surprise.
US couldn't stop it and it should be conceited to believe its easier for any one else.
Therefore kill to death ratio means zero, it only matters who won in the end.

As for the "arrogance" of BJP, again no matter what desperate attempts of Pakistan or its non state actors be they can't stop the inevitable.
Record voter turnouts and large number of people coming out for Modi's campaign trail _*"after"*_ the attacks proves that BJP is not done yet.Lets see how desperate Pakistan can get until the status quo is finally broken.


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## Abingdonboy

@waz @Oscar please get @Umair Nawaz out of here, he is derailing the entire thread.

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## pursuit of happiness

Umair Nawaz said:


> if u hadnt snubbed pak then that would have never happened. im no mulla or al qaeda or taliban. im just a student of international relations and i can speak for my int. relations POV. Its really heartening to see me all this since im also a kashmiri, but i cant do much since the RSS radicals, their influenced people in yr both military and civil bureaucracy are to blame for this. Friendly pakistan means friendly kashmiris. Im saying this all as a pakistani citizen and as a kashmiri.
> 
> Hope u understand.


--
As you are student of international relation .. you know how important are coma and fullstop let alone word which not less than WMDs if not use correctly.

--
can you define what do you mean by RSS influence ? 
can you prove how RSS influence our amry and civil bureaucracy 
--
Friendly pakistan mean friendly kashmir..
pakistan does not have any role in kashmir fredom fighter as per your foreign ofifce relaeae .. 
so how pakistan friendliness related to kashmir ?
please explain this wrt to BEGGAR-THY-NEIGHBOUR concept


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## pursuit of happiness

@Unknowncommando 
please dont induge with him and get banned 
report this guy
@cranwerkhan 
dear.. control your langauge ..
you have been reported 
if you have any peroblme for indina here plese tlak to mods


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## cranwerkhan

pursuit of happiness said:


> @Unknowncommando
> please dont induge with him and get banned
> report this guy
> @cranwerkhan
> dear.. control your langauge ..
> you have been reported
> if you have any peroblme for indina here plese tlak to mods



He is getting out of control while replying to critics .. My language is in pretty much control ..


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## pursuit of happiness

cranwerkhan said:


> He is getting out of control while replying to critics .. My language is in pretty much control ..


--
i know... my fellow indian also share the blame.. 
thanks that you DEL your previous comments.. 
hope other side will do the same 
peace ..peace ..peace ..

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## Unknowncommando

pursuit of happiness said:


> @Unknowncommando
> please dont induge with him and get banned
> report this guy
> @cranwerkhan
> dear.. control your langauge ..
> you have been reported
> if you have any peroblme for indina here plese tlak to mods


K bro I will keep mum now. I usually avoid to reply them but sometimes they speak just too much man I mean now he is talking about INDIAN girls now what the hell that thing came from. He is talking such narrow minded that by some handful of people he will judge the whole 1.25 billion people society.Lol.

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## pursuit of happiness

Unknowncommando said:


> K bro I will keep mum now. I usually avoid to reply them but sometimes they speak just too much man I mean now he is talking about INDIAN girls now what the hell that thing came from. He is talking such narrow minded that by some handful of people he will judge the whole 1.25 billion people society.Lol.


--
accepted..and agreed.
i was angry too but your anger directed as repeoting to mod.. 
he relaised his mistake and DEL that commet .. so its our tuen to take back words.. glad that you did .. 
--
there are many misconception .. sterotypes.. hate feeling .. some by desgin some by exp .. some by percpetion at both side
so attack the message not the messger .. 
--
attakcing meger wil invite ban which wil not solve ur purpsoe to put your view

@cranwerkhan @Unknowncommando 
Thanks for listing ..

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Still our Special Forces men choosing death before surrendering.

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## waz

Pakistani brothers, please do not come into this thread with random posts that seek to ignite flame wars. 

Do talk about the weapons the Indian special forces use.
Do talk about their training.
Do post pictures. 

If you don't like the thread, then please don't post up inflammatory messages.

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## halloweene

Umair Nawaz said:


> Off-topic.


You are right. My bad. Originally i only intended to say something about humility. You can be as well overtrained as Denzel was (HAHO HALO para, sniper, FAC, former world champion of Muay Thai), still a djihadist wearing sandals bullet can kill you.
The idea behind is "respect the ennemy"
Sorry for the off topic. Not purposedly.

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## Abingdonboy

Umair Nawaz said:


> Off-topic.


@halloweene's contributions are surely adding something on this thread, you are not. You do not speak for everyone, I very much appreciate his posts here.


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## bipi@342

Man who caught Bhatkal to guard Modi, Gandhis - The Times of India

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## hkdas

How armymen dealt with militants in Arnia in J&K: Pics from the spot - Oneindia

There's a new terror threat in Kashmir

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## The_Sidewinder

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So does that make you a punjabi sikh?



There are Assamese sikhs as well.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The_Sidewinder said:


> There are Assamese sikhs as well.



What is the need to invite a troll in $hit eating competition..does the peace and cleanliness of this thread hurt you?

P.S-I am sorry but dont invite loosers for a chat over here...lets keep this thread strictly about the SF.

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## The_Sidewinder

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What is the need to invite a troll in $hit eating competition..does the peace and cleanliness of this thread hurt you?
> 
> P.S-I am sorry but dont invite loosers for a chat over here...lets keep this thread strictly about the SF.



Oopppss  
Was adding to abingdonboy's reply.

Gonna keep it clean.

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## hkdas



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## Abingdonboy

SPG's 760Lis in Fiji with emergency their lights turned on (not seen that before)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

On a lighter note...

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF IN URI ENCOUNTER

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## WaLeEdK2

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 177285
> 
> PARA SF IN URI ENCOUNTER


Haha the guy in the back. I can see a meme for that.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What is the need to invite a troll in $hit eating competition..does the peace and cleanliness of this thread hurt you?
> 
> P.S-I am sorry but dont invite loosers for a chat over here...lets keep this thread strictly about the SF.



Go fuk yourself.


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## GORKHALI

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 177285
> 
> PARA SF IN URI ENCOUNTER


41 RR not Para SF mate.


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## Unknowncommando

GORKHALI said:


> 41 RR not Para SF mate.


when RR got tavors.ANY source which says that RR AQUIRED TAVORS.


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## GORKHALI

Unknowncommando said:


> when RR got tavors.ANY source which says that RR AQUIRED TAVORS.








PARA SF or RR you decide.

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## Unknowncommando

they are surely PARA SF look at the M4 @GORKHALI
i am pretty sure that RR dont have M4s
correct me if i am wrong if u got some sources
Live video of the encounter between the army and militants in Kupwara December 18, 2014 - YouTube

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Live video of the encounter between the army and militants in Kupwara December 18, 2014 - YouTube


Better view without that silly watermark:

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> they are surely PARA SF look at the M4 @GORKHALI
> i am pretty sure that RR dont have M4s
> correct me if i am wrong if u got some sources
> Live video of the encounter between the army and militants in Kupwara December 18, 2014 - YouTube


Shiv Aroor even identifies them as RR.


AFAIK the RR don't have Tavors. I would LOVE to be proven wrong but I am pretty sure these guys are SF.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

GORKHALI said:


> 41 RR not Para SF mate.



Firstly,its 37 RR that has Para Commandos infantry guys.

Secondly,this is the 4th battalion Para SF according to reliable sources.

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## Mike_Brando

Terriblr said:


> Guys yesterday I met an Indian army officer who belonged to counter operation team that reached URA sector after the encounter with the terrorists had ended and he had some really graphic pics of the terrorists on his phone.
> One pic had 3 dead terrorists, one of them according to him was killed by sniper bullet and the other 2 bodies were riddled with bullet holes. The last pic he showed was of the 6th terrorist which he said was hiding was killed when he tried to run away.


Only one word of advice,please don't even think to post any graphic picture in this thread and anywhere in this forum as it's against the Forum policies and you may end up getting banned for that.


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## Abingdonboy

Terriblr said:


> Don't have any pictures....
> Just one query: The Officer told me that his task involved crossing the LOC and searching for the terrorists if the URA like situation arises, as the certain area of land after the LOC also comes under Indian Jurisdisction.
> Can any member please enumerate about what he was talking about.
> Thanks in advance


It could simply be the case what this gentleman was referring to were tasks beyond the Indian LoC fence and before the Pak territory because the Indian fences are 100-200 back from the actual LoC. But then he could be talking about something altogether more clandestine and I wouldn't like to speculate on this....

@Terriblr mate, can you specify what unit this officer was in? Ghatak or SF?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Terriblr said:


> I am sure he was not in SF, cant speculate about Ghatak as we mostly talked about his previous postings. He told me his last two postings were in Punjab( i.e IB) and Sikkim( i.e Nathu la pass).
> 
> Sorry but really cant help you, but you are free to deduce his unit.
> 
> FYI: He described two interrogation that he was involved in.
> In the first instance the terrorist was tied to a tree and hung at a considerable height but he refused to divulge any information and later ate the cyanide capsule that he had in his mouth.
> In second instance the terrorist was tied to two separate vehicle( i.e one hand and one leg with one car and the other pair with the next car) and dragged a considerable distance but in the end it turned out to be an instance sleeper cell where he didn't have much knowledge of his superiors but could only tell them that he had been given a considerable amount of money and a house to motivate him to infiltrate India and kill as many soldiers as he can.



Dont go further.


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## DIRECT ACTION

in 2011 Indian and Polish SF Units Train Together at CIJW (Tiger Claw I) Was That polish sf unit was GROM???



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Firstly,its 37 RR that has Para Commandos infantry guys.
> 
> Secondly,this is the 4th battalion Para SF according to reliable sources.



BRO, it is 31 RR not 37....
that soldier are from 31 RR. 31 RR is a part of parachute regiment.. 31RR use same weapon of para SF...




that soldier holding m4 have a UCP cammo hat.. may be some other SF unit may also be involved in that operation.



Abingdonboy said:


> Shiv Aroor even identifies them as RR.
> 
> 
> AFAIK the RR don't have Tavors. I would LOVE to be proven wrong but I am pretty sure these guys are SF.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> in 2011 Indian and Polish SF Units Train Together at CIJW (Tiger Claw I) Was That polish sf unit was GROM???
> 
> 
> 
> BRO, it is 31 RR not 37....
> that soldier are from 31 RR. 31 RR is a part of parachute regiment.. 31RR use same weapon of para SF...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that soldier holding m4 have a UCP cammo hat.. may be some other SF unit may also be involved in that operation.



Yes,31 RR is Para Commando.




If you look at the 2nd pic closely the guys looking from behind are RR..the team which is moving is SF...4th SF.

Rest is on everyone to speculate.


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## rockstarIN

How often our Snipers hit during encounters in J&K?


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yes,31 RR is Para Commando.
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the 2nd pic closely the guys looking from behind are RR..the team which is moving is SF...4th SF.
> 
> Rest is on everyone to speculate.



AFAIK they are RR. many SF soldiers serve in RR for more effetive operations, and the equipment used by 31 RR is same as that of para SF... may be that is ajoint operation with SF and RR... i have a strong reason to believe that marcos was also there..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstarIN said:


> How often our Snipers hit during encounters in J&K?



Snipers are used and they do hit.A Para SF sniper was awarded a bravery award for his actions during the beheading incidents.



DIRECT ACTION said:


> AFAIK they are RR. many SF soldiers serve in RR for more effetive operations, and the equipment used by 31 RR is same as that of para SF... may be that is ajoint operation with SF and RR... i have a strong reason to believe that marcos was also there..



Believing is something else...Kashmiris believe Israelis are in Kashmir.

As far as the operation is concerned..RR mostly operates under SF.When SF is called the whole operation command is with the SF and they decide the tactic.It is very common to see RR with PARA SF like Delta works with Rangers.Which is what you can see...SF is moving like a team and the regulars are standing and watching them pass by...They come late as the last option and leave early to avoid publicity.

Marcos are located very far away from Kupwara where the operation took place.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Believing is something else...Kashmiris think Israelis are in Kashmir.
> 
> As far as the operation is concerned..RR mostly operates under SF.When SF is called the whole operation command is with the SF and they decide the tactic.It is very common to see RR with PARA SF like Delta works with Rangers.Which is what you can see...SF is moving like a team and the regulars are standing and watching them pass by...They come late as the last option and leave early to avoid publicity.



a soldier serving in 31RR currently serving in baramulla told me that it was 31RR not para SF.... para SF is called in only when the operation become volatile.. otherwise only RR will be called in..now, para SF is commonly used in recon, intel or DA type operations. recently the employment of para SF had change a lot from a special operation capable light infantry type unit to a real SF. 
you can see a UCP camo hat... UCP is used by marcos...


marcos regularly do joint operations with para SF.... it don't matter where the base of marcos is situated..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> a soldier serving in 31RR currently serving in baramulla told me that it was 31RR not para SF.... para SF is called in only when the operation become volatile.. otherwise only RR will be called in..now, para SF is commonly used in recon, intel or DA type operations. recently the employment of para SF had change a lot from a special operation capable light infantry type unit to a real SF.
> you can see a UCP camo hat... UCP is used by marcos...
> 
> 
> marcos regularly do joint operations with para SF.... it don't matter where the base of marcos is situated..



UCP camo is used by 10th Para aka Desert Scorpions.Dont assume things.The IA doesnt call Marcos for any sort of help amd joint operations are only conducted near to Srinagar where the Marcos are based.

Isnt the guy carrying MGL wearing CRPF COBRA camo..so according to that logic COBRAs and evern Garuds took part and this was a combined operation?..and the guy with the black dress is NSG?

Rest..i know what the Para SF does.

Btw you say on one hand that PARA SF are not involved..then you say some SF is involved and you 'believe' its MARCOS and then you say your friend is in 31 RR...so why so much assumption about marcos...what did you friend say!

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Isnt the guy carrying MGL wearing CRPF COBRA camo



Bro, PARA (SF) have started to transition to this camo themselves. The COBRAs are not the only ones who use this camo in India anymore (RPF, Garuds and other police units do also).


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, PARA (SF) have started to transition to this camo themselves. The COBRAs are not the only ones who use this camo in India anymore (RPF, Garuds and other police units do also).



Sarcasm bro.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> UCP camo is used by 10th Para aka Desert Scorpions.Dont assume things.The IA doesnt call Marcos for any sort of help amd joint operations are only conducted near to Srinagar where the Marcos are based.
> 
> Isnt the guy carrying MGL wearing CRPF COBRA camo..so according to that logic COBRAs and evern Garuds took part and this was a combined operation?..and the guy with the black dress is NSG?
> 
> Rest..i know what the Para SF does.
> 
> Btw you say on one hand that PARA SF are not involved..then you say some SF is involved and you 'believe' its MARCOS and then you say your friend is in 31 RR...so why so much assumption about marcos...what did you friend say!



10th para is deployed in desert area and that UCP is not operationalised in that Unit....10th para is deployed far away from the state J&K... i don't know if army call for marcos help or not but i do know that marcos and para SF do joint operations because my neighbour who was in marcos still not completely recovered from his injures during an operation with para SF 4 years ago. i don't see any reason to not to believe him.

as i said i have strong reasons to believe that marcos were there, that don't mean that i am 100% sure.
BTW if you know any CRPF-cobra jawan, ask him weather cobras are deployed in kashmir or not. AFAIK they are deployed in jammu.

and that 31 RR jawan is not my friend. i just know him thats all... he said that those soldiers in that pics are not para SF and also said 31 RR use the same equipment used by para SF. and about their command structure and the privileges and additional training they got... he also told me that they are also airborne qualified(maroon beret)..

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> 10th para is deployed in desert area and that UCP is not operationalised in that Unit..



Actually bro, they have:









DIRECT ACTION said:


> and that 31 RR jawan is not my friend. i just know him thats all... he said that those soldiers in that pics are not para SF and also said 31 RR use the same equipment used by para SF.



Could you ask him if RR have the Tavor then?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> 10th para is deployed in desert area and that UCP is not operationalised in that Unit....10th para is deployed far away from the state J&K... i don't know if army call for marcos help or not but i do know that marcos and para SF do joint operations because my neighbour who was in marcos still not completely recovered from his injures during an operation with para SF 4 years ago. i don't see any reason to not to believe him.
> 
> as i said i have strong reasons to believe that marcos were there, that don't mean that i am 100% sure.
> BTW if you know any CRPF-cobra jawan, ask him weather cobras are deployed in kashmir or not. AFAIK they are deployed in jammu.
> 
> and that 31 RR jawan is not my friend. i just know him thats all... he said that those soldiers in that pics are not para SF and also said 31 RR use the same equipment used by para SF. and about their command structure and the privileges and additional training they got... he also told me that they are also airborne qualified(maroon beret)..



Look buddy,the thing is that Para SF do operate with Marcos but near Srinagar not in Kupwara and Uri.

31 RR may be part of this operation.But someone who has even spent 1 year following Para SF and their photos knows they have no dress code.

Brother,cant you see 6 guys wearing 6 different dress and no unifomity..the guy in the black dress is not NSG..then one in marpat is not cobra similarly the one in ucp is not marcos.

Even in joint operations you dont see inter schuffling of team members.You wont find 2 marcos and 3 para guys in one team.They may be at different locations but in a similar operation.

Your friend if he was a squad leader who got hit by PKM and is the recipient of SC was part of a operation not more than 60 kms from Srinagar...if it is the same guy i am guessing.

It is a big foolishness to guess a book by its cover if you are dealing with Indian SF.



Abingdonboy said:


> Actually bro, they have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you ask him if RR have the Tavor then?



You nailed it big dong boy 

p.s-sarcasm..i hope you remember the guy calling you big dong.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> p.s-sarcasm..i hope you remember the guy calling you big dong.



Haha, I do indeed


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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> Actually bro, they have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you ask him if RR have the Tavor then?



that pics you post is from joint excercise with Russia in 2013 they use that camo for testing it.... i don't remember the name of that excercise...






Joint Indo-Afghanistan Special Forces Exercise conducted in 2014, it is 10 para sf.. you see any UCP there?


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Look buddy,the thing is that Para SF do operate with Marcos but near Srinagar not in Kupwara and Uri.
> 
> 31 RR may be part of this operation.But someone who has even spent 1 year following Para SF and their photos knows they have no dress code.
> 
> Brother,cant you see 6 guys wearing 6 different dress and no unifomity..the guy in the black dress is not NSG..then one in marpat is not cobra similarly the one in ucp is not marcos.
> 
> Even in joint operations you dont see inter schuffling of team members.You wont find 2 marcos and 3 para guys in one team.They may be at different locations but in a similar operation.
> 
> Your friend if he was a squad leader who got hit by PKM and is the recipient of SC was part of a operation not more than 60 kms from Srinagar...if it is the same guy i am guessing.
> 
> It is a big foolishness to guess a book by its cover if you are dealing with Indian SF.
> .



what makes you think that marcos don't operate in URI!!?? the reason why the marcos was deployed in kashmir was to stop infiltration through Jhelum River(flowing through uri) and Wular Lake marcos have base in these area... 

i think a soldier from RR know better than you and me. and UCP is not something which is common in Indian military.

there is noting called shuffling of team members in any unit during an operation. even the basic unit(the track) of marcos and para SF are different. para SF operates in 6 man team while marcos and garuds operates in 4. but it is not like you said.. they do joint operation tougher, not like marcos operate in one sector, RR operates in other sector and para SF in another. 

i think you are talking about someone else.. that marco who is a recipient of SC is still in navy....

buddy i am not guessing anything, what i told you is something i learned for marcos and army personals.



Abingdonboy said:


> Could you ask him if RR have the Tavor then?


yes 31 RR have tavor.. not only tavor they also have m4 and micro uzi... 31RR of RR is like SG of SFF.. 31 RR have a good training in special operations, they are also airborne qualified(as it is a part of parachute regiment).


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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> yes 31 RR have tavor.. not only tavor they also have m4 and micro uzi... 31RR of RR is like SG of SFF.. 31 RR have a good training in special operations, they are also airborne qualified(as it is a part of parachute regiment).


Bro I find this hard to believe as there are SF elements attached to every RR unit meaning there is no need for a SG like RR unit. The SF work with the RR not separately.


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## DIRECT ACTION

american style of urban operation!!!





fellows do you guys ever compare the US Sf operation in iraq and indian SF ops in kashmir???



Abingdonboy said:


> Bro I find this hard to believe as there are SF elements attached to every RR unit meaning there is no need for a SG like RR unit. The SF work with the RR not separately.


no, not in every RR unit.. i was talking about 31 RR. 31RR is a commando unit of RR


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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> no, not in every RR unit.. i was talking about 31 RR. 31RR is a commando unit of RR


Exactly, that doesn't make sense to me. SF in JK work both attached to RR units and independently (co-deployed with the IA's spec-ops ALH SQDs) to be called in by the local RR units for the most extreme situations they can't handle.


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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> Exactly, that doesn't make sense to me. SF in JK work both attached to RR units and independently (co-deployed with the IA's spec-ops ALH SQDs) to be called in by the local RR units for the most extreme situations they can't handle.


precisely.... this is what i said earlier.. SF is called in only when the operation is beyond RR's capacity.







looks like my 1st post didn't get anyone's attention... i will repeat the quistion...
@Abingdonboy
in 2011 Indian and Polish SF Units Train Together at CIJW (Tiger Claw I) Was That polish sf unit was GROM???
. 
.
.
.


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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I remember you mentioning the NSG's budget had been quadrupled, I forgot to ask at the time for a literal translation of this from the Home Minister.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> what makes you think that marcos don't operate in URI!!?? the reason why the marcos was deployed in kashmir was to stop infiltration through Jhelum River(flowing through uri) and Wular Lake marcos have base in these area...
> 
> i think a soldier from RR know better than you and me. and UCP is not something which is common in Indian military.
> 
> there is noting called shuffling of team members in any unit during an operation. even the basic unit(the track) of marcos and para SF are different. para SF operates in 6 man team while marcos and garuds operates in 4. but it is not like you said.. they do joint operation tougher, not like marcos operate in one sector, RR operates in other sector and para SF in another.
> 
> i think you are talking about someone else.. that marco who is a recipient of SC is still in navy....
> 
> buddy i am not guessing anything, what i told you is something i learned for marcos and army personals.
> 
> 
> yes 31 RR have tavor.. not only tavor they also have m4 and micro uzi... 31RR of RR is like SG of SFF.. 31 RR have a good training in special operations, they are also airborne qualified(as it is a part of parachute regiment).



Sir ji,Marcos were deployed in Wular Lake not in URI sector.They do operations around Wular and not URI.The IA top brass would never ask for any sort of help from Marcos as you guys come up with stories of regulars working with Marcos.

Only a guy who has no idea about the chain of command of the IA will talk like that.After the intel is recieved the local RR unit comes into action.If the operation looks complicated then only the SF is called like in Arnia and URI.

The Indian Army does not say "hello navy..please save my ***".

You know 1 RR guy..i know tens of them and specially those who have been involved in special operations and were part of a experiement in RR with CAT teams.

RR guys dont even know about Marcos and Garuds.Those who knlw have said they have never seen them.

The Army top brass trusts their Ghataks more than they would ever trust a Marcos.Ghataks are made up of local JAKLI and JAKRIF guys who grow beards and no one can distinguish between them and the civillians.

So after the RR thinks SF intervention is required the SF is called.Marcos either conduct operations on their own near their area of deployment that is Srinagar or they ask permissiom to be a part.

I hope you know that a unit deployed in one area cant behave like a A-Team and conduct operations anywhere they want.The RR's Kilo force wont go and kill terrorists in Delta Force area of responsibility even when it has intel.

Lastly,you know every 6 months i deal with a guy who says the same thing you say since the past 3 years.The news channel reported the Army SF to be in charge of URI and everyone saw that.Kupwara where you say that Marcos are deployed are ParaSF territory specially Lolab,hafruda and handwara operations.

Major Mohit Sharma and many other PARA SF operators have died in Kupwara.I find your story hard to believe coming from a Marcos fanboy.

P.S-Dont come up with i know a RR soldier and he knows it all thing...my dad was a RR sector commander in the 90s and many of my friends and relatives still serve in RR..Let your content speak rather than your contacts.The places you talk about have been all seen by me on 4 wheelers..and you are still assuming a lot after you say you know the RR guy so i find it very difficult to believe with all due respect.



Abingdonboy said:


> Bro I find this hard to believe as there are SF elements attached to every RR unit meaning there is no need for a SG like RR unit. The SF work with the RR not separately.


You are right.Right now what is happening is that every RR unit has a special undercover team comprising of local guys and RR specialists in 6-8 man teams.They gather intel and are the first ones to react even before QRT.

Remember the pics of my friend in RR...he was part of that team.I cropped their faces or you would have seen they look exactly like kashmiri locals.



DIRECT ACTION said:


> precisely.... this is what i said earlier.. SF is called in only when the operation is beyond R
> 
> looks like my 1st post didn't get anyone's attention... i will repeat the quistion...
> @Abingdonboy
> in 2011 Indian and Polish SF Units Train Together at CIJW (Tiger Claw I) Was That polish sf unit was GROM???
> .
> .
> .
> .


It wasnt GROM.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Buddy,i was having a look at the pics again and i wanted to confirm that did Marcos buy M4 after the Para SF started using them coz as far as i know only Para SF use M4..Marcos and Garuds still operate Tavor and AK or Insas..Marcos use MP5 for CQB but army uses M4 and Uzi.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Sir ji,Marcos were deployed in Wular Lake not in URI sector.They do operations around Wular and not URI.The IA top brass would never ask for any sort of help from Marcos as you guys come up with stories of regulars working with Marcos.
> 
> Only a guy who has no idea about the chain of command of the IA will talk like that.After the intel is recieved the local RR unit comes into action.If the operation looks complicated then only the SF is called like in Arnia and URI.
> 
> The Indian Army does not say "hello navy..please save my ***".
> 
> You know 1 RR guy..i know tens of them and specially those who have been involved in special operations and were part of a experiement in RR with CAT teams.
> 
> RR guys dont even know about Marcos and Garuds.Those who knlw have said they have never seen them.
> 
> The Army top brass trusts their Ghataks more than they would ever trust a Marcos.Ghataks are made up of local JAKLI and JAKRIF guys who grow beards and no one can distinguish between them and the civillians.
> 
> So after the RR thinks SF intervention is required the SF is called.Marcos either conduct operations on their own near their area of deployment that is Srinagar or they ask permissiom to be a part.
> 
> I hope you know that a unit deployed in one area cant behave like a A-Team and conduct operations anywhere they want.The RR's Kilo force wont go and kill terrorists in Delta Force area of responsibility even when it has intel.
> 
> Lastly,you know every 6 months i deal with a guy who says the same thing you say since the past 3 years.The news channel reported the Army SF to be in charge of URI and everyone saw that.Kupwara where you say that Marcos are deployed are ParaSF territory specially Lolab,hafruda and handwara operations.
> 
> Major Mohit Sharma and many other PARA SF operators have died in Kupwara.I find your story hard to believe coming from a Marcos fanboy.
> 
> P.S-Dont come up with i know a RR soldier and he knows it all thing...my dad was a RR sector commander in the 90s and many of my friends and relatives still serve in RR..Let your content speak rather than your contacts.The places you talk about have been all seen by me on 4 wheelers..and you are still assuming a lot after you say you know the RR guy so i find it very difficult to believe with all due respect.
> 
> 
> .



i know you are not going to believe me... if you are son of RR sector commander, then you can talk to marcos deployed near wular lake.. marcos operate in civilian dress, they were only deployed in uniform only to show presence there... i can't send you any of the pics of marcos in Kashmir so my further argument without any pics od documents to support will be pointless. i think you are living in kashmir... if yes then you should have contacts with army as you are the son of a commander. try to talk to any marcos.. don't ask army men about marcos army don't know much about marcos. army SF and marcos have an internal rivalry b/w them.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It wasnt GROM.



then which unit was that??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> i know you are not going to believe me... if you are son of RR sector commander, then you can talk to marcos deployed near wular lake.. marcos operate in civilian dress, they were only deployed in uniform only to show presence there... i can't send you any of the pics of marcos in Kashmir so my further argument without any pics od documents to support will be pointless. i think you are living in kashmir... if yes then you should have contacts with army as you are the son of a commander. try to talk to any marcos.. don't ask army men about marcos army don't know much about marcos. army SF and marcos have an internal rivalry b/w them.
> 
> 
> 
> then which unit was that??



Buddy,the Marcos dont wear uniform and keep beard i agree.The things is that the area of deployment of Marcos is Srinagar only.Now you agree they have rivalry then how can you say they are in 31 RR?Plus the guy carrying M4 and wearing UCP is a not Marcos also because i have never seen Marcos with M4.

Till now only Army SF have M4..Did you see the team leader carrying M4 in Uri operation?

Kupwara and Uri fall under Para SF and Major Mohit Sharma and Capt.Jasrotia among various others have sacrficied their lives there.I would seriously find it hard to believe that a Marcos team will operate in Kupwara dense forests.

So lets agree to disagree.

Regarding the Polish SF...i read in a polish forum that GROM was not involved.I cant find the link but here is the link to another site and you can read the comments below the pics.

Polish Commandoes Try The Tavor - The Firearm Blog


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Buddy,the Marcos dont wear uniform and keep beard i agree.The things is that the area of deployment of Marcos is Srinagar only.Now you agree they have rivalry then how can you say they are in 31 RR?Plus the guy carrying M4 and wearing UCP is a not Marcos also because i have never seen Marcos with M4.
> 
> Till now only Army SF have M4..Did you see the team leader carrying M4 in Uri operation?
> 
> Kupwara and Uri fall under Para SF and Major Mohit Sharma and Capt.Jasrotia among various others have sacrficied their lives there.I would seriously find it hard to believe that a Marcos team will operate in Kupwara dense forests.
> 
> So lets agree to disagree.
> 
> Regarding the Polish SF...i read in a polish forum that GROM was not involved.I cant find the link but here is the link to another site and you can read the comments below the pics.



i wan't sure that that soldier with M4 is a marcos.as is said i have strong reasons to belive he is marcos. in 2013 there was some report that marcos is inducting trijicon sights... in that pics that sight on m4 looks like a trijicon sights. and also he have a UCP hat. 
may be marcos introduce M4......marcos(SBS-advance) uses h&k 416, but no pics are released.... 

i saw a man post a comment of a page.. he said Para sf and GROM conduct a joint excercise few years back. that is why i ask. the chance for GROM for conducting any training excercise in CIJW is very trim because GROM is a special mission unit they don't need any extensive training in CI or jungle operations.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> i wan't sure that that soldier with M4 is a marcos.as is said i have strong reasons to belive he is marcos. in 2013 there was some report that marcos is inducting trijicon sights... in that pics that sight on m4 looks like a trijicon sights. and also he have a UCP hat.
> may be marcos introduce M4......marcos(SBS-advance) uses h&k 416, but no pics are released....
> 
> i saw a man post a comment of a page.. he said Para sf and GROM conduct a joint excercise few years back. that is why i ask. the chance for GROM for conducting any training excercise in CIJW is very trim because GROM is a special mission unit they don't need any extensive training in CI or jungle operations.



Bro,why so partial with Marcos.When did the Navy sign a deal for M4?A pic of Marcos with M4 would be great.

If you look at the body language of the M4 guy he looks like the team leader and i feel he is the same guy from URI

Para SF have got some M4 after training with US SF.And brother if you look closely he is wearing Army camo and gear just because he is wearing UCP hat doesnt make him a Marcos.

Maybe GROM or maybe some other unit.I am not sure about this.Many Units from around the world come there and everything is kept low profile.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Buddy,i was having a look at the pics again and i wanted to confirm that did Marcos buy M4 after the Para SF started using them coz as far as i know only Para SF use M4..Marcos and Garuds still operate Tavor and AK or Insas..Marcos use MP5 for CQB but army uses M4 and Uzi.


To date I am yet to see any evidence of the MARCOs using the M4.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Bro,why so partial with Marcos.When did the Navy sign a deal for M4?A pic of Marcos with M4 would be great.
> 
> If you look at the body language of the M4 guy he looks like the team leader and i feel he is the same guy from URI
> 
> Para SF have got some M4 after training with US SF.And brother if you look closely he is wearing Army camo and gear just because he is wearing UCP hat doesnt make him a Marcos.
> 
> Maybe GROM or maybe some other unit.I am not sure about this.Many Units from around the world come there and everything is kept low profile.



no, no i'm not partial with marcos .. i know about marcos because of my friend is a marco. actually i am a great admire of special forces. it is said that marcos have M4, but in limited number,same case of H&K 416. i don't think navy will release any pics of marcos with H&K 416 or M4. there is not even a photos of marcos SBS advance. even the existence of the units EOD and SBS made public through social medias by some EX-marcos working in Maritime Asset Security & Training Ltd after 2008 because of the criticism for not not continue the operation after NSG arrived, and performance EOD team(which was not even trained for hostage rescue) in taj is not satisfactory.

all three special forces(garuds, para sf, marcos) do training with US special forces.. even my friend have completed naval special warfare course, Coronado and advance courses. 

i am not sure about that M4 guy, that UCP makes me confused. and that that 31RR soldier told me they are not para sf. i can't identify that sight used in that M4 it looks like trijicon sight to me. 

bro, if you ask any army soldier they will tell you that UCP is not a good camo i don't think army will be keen to have UCP.. i don't know why marcos uses that, it will be good if they replace UCP with some other good camouflage pattern. 


chance for GROM is less.. GROM is not used for CI warfare, they are like delta force of US army. if it was a anti-terrorist, CQB, room intervention training then there is a chance of the being GROM, but it was a CI and jungle warfare training excercise.






para SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF



Only half the total number of troops are carrying secondary weapon..maybe coz they are interventionists.


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## DIRECT ACTION

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro, i got it wrong.. that is not UPC cammo.. look at the pic @Unknowncommando posted...
that optical sight looks like M68 Close Combat Optic red dot sight.
and SF start using new type of boots!!!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro, i got it wrong.. that is not UPC cammo.. look at the pic @Unknowncommando posted...
> that optical sight looks like M68 Close Combat Optic red dot sight.
> and SF start using new type of boots!!!



Yes its not UCP and the M4 plus the standard army gear makes it pretty obvious now that they are Army personnel.

The boots are pretty common with RR guys.Infact you can also buy these for 800-1200 bucks.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Only half the total number of troops are carrying secondary weapon..maybe coz they are interventionists.



those carrying secondary weapons also have knee and elbow pads, flashlights on their weapons, and they don't have BPJ... so they may be a separate team came for room intervention operation.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF


Nice pics bro but really you need to blur out the faces of the operators without their faces covered. Given these guys' job description their identities need to be protected.


DIRECT ACTION said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro, i got it wrong.. that is not UPC cammo.. look at the pic @Unknowncommando posted...
> that optical sight looks like M68 Close Combat Optic red dot sight.
> and SF start using new type of boots!!!



The boots are pretty commonplace with RR and SF troops these days bro.

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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> The boots are pretty commonplace with RR and SF troops these days bro.


bro, which weapon is better for indian condition... m4 or tavor??


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## rockstar08

Is there any Unit of Special forces deployed along Pakistan border? ?


----------



## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> bro, which weapon is better for indian condition... m4 or tavor??


IMHO the Tavor. It is a rugged, very accurate and well designed rifle and its "over the beach" capability is truly remarkable and thus very suited to SF operations. The M4/AR-15 has some notorious issues in terms of reliability that, to be fair, have been mostly addressed. From what I know the SF got the M4 mostly for airborne missions as the M4 is lighter and less bulky than the Tavor. Other than that it is up to the SF operators which weapon they want to go for and this is why you see some with the M4 and others (most) with the Tavor.



rockstar08 said:


> Is there any Unit of Special forces deployed along Pakistan border? ?


There will be SF teams co-depliyed with helo units along the LoC ready to be called in for direct action missions when infiltrators are detected trying to enter Indian territory.

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## rockstarIN

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Buddy,the Marcos dont wear uniform and keep beard i agree.The things is that the area of deployment of Marcos is Srinagar only.Now you agree they have rivalry then how can you say they are in 31 RR?Plus the guy carrying M4 and wearing UCP is a not Marcos also because i have never seen Marcos with M4.
> 
> Till now only Army SF have M4..Did you see the team leader carrying M4 in Uri operation?
> 
> Kupwara and Uri fall under Para SF and Major Mohit Sharma and Capt.Jasrotia among various others have sacrficied their lives there.I would seriously find it hard to believe that a Marcos team will operate in Kupwara dense forests.
> 
> So lets agree to disagree.
> 
> Regarding the Polish SF...i read in a polish forum that GROM was not involved.I cant find the link but here is the link to another site and you can read the comments below the pics.
> 
> Polish Commandoes Try The Tavor - The Firearm Blog



Marcos saw lots of action in 2002-05 period in Kashmir, so if you are saying they were deployed only in kashmir...was there lots of encounters going on in that area? One of Marco guy told me once(i didnt meet him since then)

He told me that he visited gulf countries too for exercises with respective counterparts. But I hardly see any such in any publications/net.


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## DIRECT ACTION

rockstarIN said:


> Marcos saw lots of action in 2002-05 period in Kashmir, so if you are saying they were deployed only in kashmir...was there lots of encounters going on in that area? One of Marco guy told me once(i didnt meet him since then)
> 
> He told me that he visited gulf countries too for exercises with respective counterparts. But I hardly see any such in any publications/net.



bro, marcos are deployed in many counters including in African countries for naval intelligence. none of marcos deployment is made public....but no one is going to believe me. because many don't know more about the unit...


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstar08 said:


> Is there any Unit of Special forces deployed along Pakistan border? ?



Yes..Para SF are involved in cross border raids.



rockstarIN said:


> Marcos saw lots of action in 2002-05 period in Kashmir, so if you are saying they were deployed only in kashmir...was there lots of encounters going on in that area? One of Marco guy told me once(i didnt meet him since then)
> 
> He told me that he visited gulf countries too for exercises with respective counterparts. But I hardly see any such in any publications/net.



Not only during that period but in the SL war with LTTE and in the gulf of aden.

They are active around wular lake as the only reason to bring them was to end the arms trafficking and minimise the terrorist movement in and around the wular.

They did the job pretty well and then they started gathering intel and conducting operations which were not amphibious in nature.

The point you see me debating here very often is that Kupwara (uri,hafruda,lolab and handwara) is hardcore terrorist area and is the capital of any Para SF deployed in Kashmir.

And Marcos are not deployed there.Para SF deploys 6-8 man teams which do not interschuffle team members even with RR Ghataks which are by the way also very good.

Last year a Marcos officer in a joint operation with Para SF won a gallantry award when he rushed towards the terrorists armed with PKM and killed them avoiding casualties.He got hit in the legs.But this was near Srinagar and not in Kupwara.

Regarding the exercises i am only aware of Marcos regularly working with Seals.We dont get to hear much about their deployment as Indian SOF are secretive in nature.

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## Abingdonboy



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## rockstar08

Abingdonboy said:


> IMHO the Tavor. It is a rugged, very accurate and well designed rifle and its "over the beach" capability is truly remarkable and thus very suited to SF operations. The M4/AR-15 has some notorious issues in terms of reliability that, to be fair, have been mostly addressed. From what I know the SF got the M4 mostly for airborne missions as the M4 is lighter and less bulky than the Tavor. Other than that it is up to the SF operators which weapon they want to go for and this is why you see some with the M4 and others (most) with the Tavor.
> 
> 
> There will be SF teams co-depliyed with helo units along the LoC ready to be called in for direct action missions when infiltrators are detected trying to enter Indian territory.



are they trained specifically for anti-terrorism ops or they are also trained for war scenarios ?


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## Abingdonboy

rockstar08 said:


> are they trained specifically for anti-terrorism ops or they are also trained for war scenarios ?


They are Para (SF), trained for the entire spectrum of Special Operations and are amongst some of the finest and best trained special forces operators on the planet. They have a role during "peacetime" i.e. counter terrorism and wartime of course.

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## Screambowl

Abingdonboy said:


> There will be SF teams co-depliyed with helo units along the LoC ready to be called in for direct action missions when infiltrators are detected trying to enter Indian territory.



Is that info on public domain?


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## Abingdonboy

Screambowl said:


> Is that info on public domain?


Indeed it is bro, don't worry, I wouldn't disclose anything sensitive on here

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## kbd-raaf

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed it is bro, don't worry, I wouldn't disclose anything sensitive on here



You shouldn't know anything sensitive to be honest :/


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## Abingdonboy

kbd-raaf said:


> You shouldn't know anything sensitive to be honest :/


Well I know next to nothing truly sensitive. I know a few things that really shouldn't be in the public domain but in the grand scheme of things they are incredibly trivial details. Sadly I don't know much :/


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## kbd-raaf

Abingdonboy said:


> Well I know next to nothing truly sensitive. I know a few things that really shouldn't be in the public domain but in the grand scheme of things they are incredibly trivial details. Sadly I don't know much :/



Fair enough. Most of the more trivial operational details are well known by both sides.

In fact, these details are kept secret to befuddle only those who seek to gain favour through exploiting opportunity.

Opportunists such as our friendly neigbourhood non-state actors


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## Wolfhound

how many types of indian sp are there? For example pakistan main three are ssg,ssgn and ssw


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## BDforever

Wolfhound said:


> how many types of indian sp are there? For example pakistan main three are ssg,ssgn and ssw


don't you have para commandos ?


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## Koovie

Wolfhound said:


> how many types of indian sp are there? For example pakistan main three are ssg,ssgn and ssw



Three "classic" military SF units: 

Para SF (Army)

MARCOS (Navy)

Garud Commando Force (IAF)


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## BDforever

Koovie said:


> Three "classic" military SF units:
> 
> Para SF (Army)
> 
> MARCOS (Navy)
> 
> Garud Commando Force (IAF)


apart from those, do u have other special forces in army or navy or airforce ?


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## Wolfhound

BDforever said:


> don't you have para commandos ?


the equivalent of indian para commandos is the ssg



Koovie said:


> Three "classic" military SF units:
> 
> Para SF (Army)
> 
> MARCOS (Navy)
> 
> Garud Commando Force (IAF)


thanks,but can you also tell me what kind of equipment they use?

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## BDforever

Wolfhound said:


> the equivalent of indian para commandos is the ssg


but we have both para commandos and SSG


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

BDforever said:


> apart from those, do u have other special forces in army or navy or airforce ?



ARMY-We have Commandos and they train in a seperate Commando school.Commandos are part of Ghatak company.Every Infantry battalion has a Ghatak Company so they dont have to rely on SF.

Then there are Para Commandos who are infantrymen trained for airborne operations.

Lastly there is Para SF.These are Special Force Operators.They are not just comandos but taught various languages and are educated like an engineer.Their training is a constant process and it takes 2 years for a experienced infantryman to be deployed in field area as a Para SF operator.He trains with either Israelis or US SF regularly and carries some of the best weapons among Asian SF.

Air Force-They have Garuds.Who are trained and equipped very well.It is a newly raised force and has not seen much of field area coz the reason of its birth was to protect airfields.

Navy-They have VBSS teams which is very obvious and they are well trained but lack modern weapons as we can see.

The Navy is gonna raise SPB to the level of something like the Marines in the future.They are well equipped like the Marcos.

Marcos are obviously the most talked about SF coz they were part of 26/11operations.Very well equipped force with a lot of experience from SL war to Gulf of Aden.

Special Units:-

NSG-The most elitie anti hijacking/hostage and anti terror unit comprising of guys from the Army who were mostly Commandos or SF.Very well funded (going to be) and well equipped specially after 26/11 lesson.The best intervention unit in Asia according to me. (Apart from Israel)

Cobra-Anti naxal force experienced in guerrilla warfare.

And various other Police units in every state.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA COMMANDOS




in uri

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## DIRECT ACTION

Operation Cactus : A classic example of assistance to Neighbours in distress.

On 3 Nov 1988, Indian Govt received a distress call from the President of the Republic of Maldives. Indian Govt responded and entrusted the task to 50 (I) Para Bde. The task involved swift planning and execution at a location more than 3000 kms away. The Brigade cracked the primary task of rescuing the President with in 4 hours of its landing and wounded up the whole operation in 16 hours.

In all more than 100 rebels were captured with huge quantities of Arms and Ammunition.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> ARMY-We have Commandos and they train in a seperate Commando school.Commandos are part of Ghatak company.Every Infantry battalion has a Ghatak Company so they dont have to rely on SF.
> 
> Then there are Para Commandos who are infantrymen trained for airborne operations.
> 
> Lastly there is Para SF.These are Special Force Operators.They are not just comandos but taught various languages and are educated like an engineer.Their training is a constant process and it takes 2 years for a experienced infantryman to be deployed in field area as a Para SF operator.He trains with either Israelis or US SF regularly and carries some of the best weapons among Asian SF.
> 
> Air Force-They have Garuds.Who are trained and equipped very well.It is a newly raised force and has not seen much of field area coz the reason of its birth was to protect airfields.
> 
> Navy-They have VBSS teams which is very obvious and they are well trained but lack modern weapons as we can see.
> 
> The Navy is gonna raise SPB to the level of something like the Marines in the future.They are well equipped like the Marcos.
> 
> Marcos are obviously the most talked about SF coz they were part of 26/11operations.Very well equipped force with a lot of experience from SL war to Gulf of Aden.
> 
> Special Units:-
> 
> NSG-The most elitie anti hijacking/hostage and anti terror unit comprising of guys from the Army who were mostly Commandos or SF.Very well funded (going to be) and well equipped specially after 26/11 lesson.The best intervention unit in Asia according to me. (Apart from Israel)
> 
> Cobra-Anti naxal force experienced in guerrilla warfare.
> 
> And various other Police units in every state.



bro, you forget SFF-SG?? they are the most elite special mission unit...
Squadron Leader Ajay Ahuja's incident is also the reason behind the formation of Garuds... 
i would say garuds are not a single unit, it is like a command. there are sub units within the garuds.. this is also same in case of marcos.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> Operation Cactus : A classic example of assistance to Neighbours in distress.
> 
> On 3 Nov 1988, Indian Govt received a distress call from the President of the Republic of Maldives. Indian Govt responded and entrusted the task to 50 (I) Para Bde. The task involved swift planning and execution at a location more than 3000 kms away. The Brigade cracked the primary task of rescuing the President with in 4 hours of its landing and wounded up the whole operation in 16 hours.
> 
> In all more than 100 rebels were captured with huge quantities of Arms and Ammunition.
> 
> 
> 
> bro, you forget SFF-SG?? they are the most elite special mission unit...
> Squadron Leader Ajay Ahuja's incident is also the reason behind the formation of Garuds...
> i would say garuds are not a single unit, it is like a command. there are sub units within the garuds.. this is also same in case of marcos.



SFF is a indo tibetian unit comprising of Para Commandos and Tibetian refugees.They are trained in the foothills of himalayas.They are very secretive and only a few pics of them have emerged.They were part of 1971 war and 1984 operations.

Obviously Gardus,Marcos and Para have sub units.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> SFF is a indo tibetian unit comprising of Para Commandos and Tibetian refugees.They are trained in the foothills of himalayas.They are very secretive and only a few pics of them have emerged.They were part of 1971 war and 1984 operations.
> 
> Obviously Gardus,Marcos and Para have sub units.



i was talking about SG not just SFF... SG compressing of only SF men and it is the most elite force in india. 

garuds and marcos have further sub-units which have different training and purpose.... the difference is similar to that of SEALS and SWCC or USAF United States Air Force Combat Control Teams and Air Force Pararescue... i don't know/think different units like this exist in para SF.


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## Koovie

Wolfhound said:


> thanks,but can you also tell me what kind of equipment they use?



In terms of what? Small arms? Gear? Support vehicles? Communication assets?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> i was talking about SG not just SFF... SG compressing of only SF men and it is the most elite force in india.
> 
> garuds and marcos have further sub-units which have different training and purpose.... the difference is similar to that of SEALS and SWCC or USAF United States Air Force Combat Control Teams and Air Force Pararescue... i don't know/think different units like this exist in para SF.



Sg is all Para SF and was active in Kashmir until last decade.It is also known as Vikas Regtt.

Garuds dont have EOD and Amphibious capability.


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## Wolfhound

Koovie said:


> In terms of what? Small arms? Gear? Support vehicles? Communication assets?


All of them kindly


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## DIRECT ACTION

He is Brigadier M Kumar from 1 Para SF.... His parent
regiment is AMC (Army Medical Corps). He had
para jumped at the age of 76 at the occasion of
an AMC conference at AMC Centre, Lucknow.






anyone watch this program??... i missed it..

re telecast on Monday 11AM..

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> anyone watch this program??... i missed it..
> 
> re telecast on Monday 11AM..
> View attachment 178843



@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @kurup @Unknowncommando @levina anyone catch this or have a link to watch it online?

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @kurup @Unknowncommando @levina anyone catch this or have a link to watch it online?



Its about the LOC.. so it might be a rerun of the episode from Independence Day this year...

But seriously, those baking gloves need to go -_-

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Its about the LOC.. so it might be a rerun of the episode from Independence Day this year...
> 
> But seriously, those baking gloves need to go -_-


Yeah , you might be right about that bro.

Agree with you about those mittens they wear for fast-roping being outdated and of course there are better products out there. But I remember reading in the Mark Owens (formerly member of Seal team 6) book "no easy day" that they used such mittens as recently as 2011 also.


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> CRPF COBRA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @RPK


Anyone got part 2 of this?


----------



## DIRECT ACTION

Assault team of 2 para special force..old pics..

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## DIRECT ACTION

Terriblr said:


> Found this today... though its quite old but still had some useful information
> 
> FYI this video also provides some info about Indian sniper training which personally I have never seen before...



bro, i have all 3 parts of that documentary with me. if you want it i will upload that to you tube...

or you can watch it in here...
वतन के रखवाले : कमांडो यूं दबोच लेते हैं आतंकियों को...
वतन के रखवाले : कैसे तैयार होते हैं स्पेशल फोर्स के कमांडो
वतन के रखवाले : सेना के स्पेशल फोर्स के कमांडो


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## DIRECT ACTION

@Terriblr, bro, i just upload a documentary on garud commandos... watch and enjoy...

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## DIRECT ACTION

Terriblr said:


> Can u tell me whats the use of the Bug light or " keede wali light " thta the Garuds carry.... They never articulated on that in the video....



that is BugLit LED Micro Flashlight...

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS 




video on INDIAN NAVY WESTERN FLEET

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## Sheikh Rauf

Veer said:


> View attachment 106423
> 
> 
> View attachment 106424


 
God damit was he working as genator before


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## DIRECT ACTION

Lt. General P.C. Bhardwaj of 1st para(SF) paying homage to the martyrs at Amar jawan jyoti INDIA GATE..

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## DIRECT ACTION



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## Capt.Popeye

Sheikh Rauf said:


> God damit was he working as genator before



_Tera_ Boss _bankar kaam karta tha kya?_

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## Sheikh Rauf

Veer said:


> *This is Kafan, our guys fights with Kafan tied on their head. They fight till their last breath, to their last drop of blood.
> 
> "Sar per Kafan Bandke Desh ki raksha ko nikalte hain gharse"*





Capt.Popeye said:


> _Tera_ Boss _bankar kaam karta tha kya?_


 
pata tha aik jamadar hi jamadar ki favour mein bolay ga.. bol raju bol


----------



## RPK

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=844325122293400

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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=844325122293400


Hmmm, could this really be Special Group?:


This is believable- there's nothing special about the Tavor in India these days and the SFF were the first unit to get these weapons





















It is this picture that raises a lot of questions:







I had been quick to right this off as another foreign unit that they had put into this video on SFF- this happens a lot on these sort of Indian Military videos.

However looking closer at the picture did give me some doubts-

1)that door looks very Indian, I can't think of anywhere else that I would expect to find one that looked like that.

2) The use of single tube face worn (not helmet mounted) NVGs that the majority of the West has long since moved away from and the only units I have seen wearing these in recent years are the PARA (SF) and Garuds

3) I don't know what they are called but if you look at the boots of the operators you can see a green/camo strip, I don't know the purpose of these things but I have noticed this practice is quite commonplace in Indian units (could be with others too but I've only noticed Indian units doing this).



And just as an aside, and doesn't mean much really the orange walls and door reminded me of one of the NSG's kill houses in Mansear:




















(a meaningless detail but, perhaps, worth pointing out)


I'll still need some convincing that an Indian unit operates the FN SCAR though but I can't decide one way or the other right now.




@Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @sandy_3126 @Water Car Engineer @Unknowncommando @kurup thoughts?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Mate,upload it on youtube.I cant open the damn video.


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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=844325122293400


Anyone able to upload this onto youtube? I am not able to do so right now 

@levina @kurup @Prometheus @Sidak @jiki @Water Car Engineer


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Hmmm, could this really be Special Group?:
> 
> 
> This is believable- there's nothing special about the Tavor in India these days and the SFF were the first unit to get these weapons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is this picture that raises a lot of questions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had been quick to right this off as another foreign unit that they had put into this video on SFF- this happens a lot on these sort of Indian Military videos.
> 
> However looking closer at the picture did give me some doubts-
> 
> 1)that door looks very Indian, I can't think of anywhere else that I would expect to find one that looked like that.
> 
> 2) The use of single tube face worn (not helmet mounted) NVGs that the majority of the West has long since moved away from and the only units I have seen wearing these in recent years are the PARA (SF) and Garuds
> 
> 3) I don't know what they are called but if you look at the boots of the operators you can see a green/camo strip, I don't know the purpose of these things but I have noticed this practice is quite commonplace in Indian units (could be with others too but I've only noticed Indian units doing this).
> 
> 
> 
> And just as an aside, and doesn't mean much really the orange walls and door reminded me of one of the NSG's kill houses in Mansear:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a meaningless detail but, perhaps, worth pointing out)
> 
> 
> I'll still need some convincing that an Indian unit operates the FN SCAR though but I can't decide one way or the other right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @sandy_3126 @Water Car Engineer @Unknowncommando @kurup thoughts?



Good observations! 

That building does indeed look very "Indian" and I have never seen those black boots with camo stripes anywhere else. 

+ Those guys are not the tallest guys either... which is not unusual for people from that region

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> + Those guys are not the tallest guys either... which is not unusual for people from that region


Well this unit would be SG and thus would be 100% Indian SF, it's hard to estimate heights based on this picture. 

Still, something to ponder aye bro

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## nik22

RPK said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=844325122293400


Very informative. Thank You!

Tashi Delek!
It is my sincere wish Tibetans get their land back.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

It is definitely a Indian Unit and i think i am seeing 3 different guns in that pic.


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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=844325122293400





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It is definitely a Indian Unit and i think i am seeing 3 different guns in that pic.


FN-2000, FN P-90 and FN SCAR.

(FN-2000 and P-90 of course already in use in India by the SPG but this would be the first time the SCAR has been seen in Indian hands and this would be pretty big news).

The FN Herstal salesman has certainly paid them a visit 

What makes you sure they are an Indian unit?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> FN-2000, FN P-90 and FN SCAR.
> 
> (FN-2000 and P-90 of course already in use in India by the SPG but this would be the first time the SCAR has been seen in Indian hands and this would be pretty big news).
> 
> The FN Herstal salesman has certainly paid them a visit
> 
> What makes you sure they are an Indian unit?



The CQB room is in Manesar as you rightly pointed out and the Boot is again a 650 bucks boot very common with Army chaps.The uniform is tailored and is not fire proof..very Indian.Helmet is the same NSG uses and the same goes for NVGs.I had heard my friend once saying that NSG "may" go for SCAR and i am now very sure about this.

Regarding the video..The unit is more active than i thought.Equipped like Para SF with PKM and Tavor and the same NVG (GARUDS use bi oculars) .Officers comprise of Para and Tibetians.Jawans consist of Tibetians and Nepalese.Women are a part of combat and wear maroon beret.

Overall a kickass force with good experience and training.I would place them right up there with Para SF as the most lethal force.

But seeing how secretive the unit is and the access to weapons i would say man..SG would have been part of really high profile ops we would never know about.

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

The pics of SG (appears twice) appears to be most certainly a little oldish. The kit, the rifles (both the FN 2000 and SCAR) look like the early models. My 2 cent intuition says the pics are from before when the SPG got their new kit (2004?). The other more interesting pic is the jungle one, the soldier on the right appears to be carrying what looks like either the MCIWS or the ARX 160.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> The pics of SG (appears twice) appears to be most certainly a little oldish. The kit, the rifles (both the FN 2000 and SCAR) look like the early models. My 2 cent intuition says the pics are from before when the SPG got their new kit (2004?). The other more interesting pic is the jungle one, the soldier on the right appears to be carrying what looks like either the MCIWS or the ARX 160.



The helmet and gear are not that old.I would say 2 years old.


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## Koovie

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> The pics of SG (appears twice) appears to be most certainly a little oldish. The kit, the rifles (both the FN 2000 and SCAR) look like the early models. My 2 cent intuition says the pics are from before when the SPG got their new kit (2004?). The other more interesting pic is the jungle one, the soldier on the right appears to be carrying what looks like either the MCIWS or the ARX 160.



The soldier on the right is carrying a P 90. The MCIWS is still in development. Furthermore, the SCAR has only been in service since 2009.

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The helmet and gear are not that old.I would say 2 years old.


Not necessarily, remember the SG is touted as the creme de la creme of Indian SF. They seem to get priority when it comes kit upgrades (First to handle Tavors). Going by that analogy, they probably got these helmets and rifles a few years before any of the other SF/CT units got (NSG in the last couple of years). In addition to this, the lack of a load carrying vest, knee/elbow pads which are now commonplace even with basic infantry suggests that the pics are from sometime back. Just speculation, I could be wrong too 

P.S.: The pistol holsters too are another give away.



Koovie said:


> The soldier on the right is carrying a P 90. The MCIWS is still in development. Furthermore, the SCAR has only been in service since 2009.



Yes that is a P90. I am referring to the other pic of some unit in the jungle, look at the soldier on the extreme right. SCAR - In service from 2009 but has been in production since 2004.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> Not necessarily, remember the SG is touted as the creme de la creme of Indian SF. They seem to get priority when it comes kit upgrades (First to handle Tavors). Going by that analogy, they probably got these helmets and rifles a few years before any of the other SF/CT units got (NSG in the last couple of years). In addition to this, the lack of a load carrying vest, knee/elbow pads which are now commonplace even with basic infantry suggests that the pics are from sometime back. Just speculation, I could be wrong too
> 
> P.S.: The pistol holsters too are another give away.



So,you are suggesting the SG had this gear and weapons in 2004 and the NSG (no.1 unit in hostage situation) and the Para SF waited for 26/11 to upgrade despite them having the same officers and other ranks.


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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So,you are suggesting the SG had this gear and weapons in 2004 and the NSG (no.1 unit in hostage situation) and the Para SF waited for 26/11 to upgrade despite them having the same officers and other ranks.



I am not suggesting anything just citing my personal opinion based on observation and yes we all know the state of NSG pre 26/11 but PARAs not really, they've had relatively better weaponry (Tavors) and kit for a few years now (only relative to other Indian units).

Google SCAR L prototype, you'll see why I think the two pics are oldish.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> I am not suggesting anything just citing my personal opinion based on observation and yes we all know the state of NSG pre 26/11 but PARAs not really, they've had relatively better weaponry (Tavors) and kit for a few years now (only relative to other Indian units).
> 
> Google SCAR L prototype, you'll see why I think the two pics are oldish.



Paras were not well equipped before 26/11.They just had Tavors.


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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Paras were not well equipped before 26/11.They just had Tavors.


I did say "relative to other units", but whatever.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I had heard my friend once saying that NSG "may" go for SCAR and i am now very sure about this


What's the background of this friend bro? How does he have such info?


Another pic of "Special Group":









+ bro as per my information SG is 100% made up of Indian SF operators, there is little Tibetan content in this unit.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> What's the background of this friend bro? How does he have such info?
> 
> 
> Another pic of "Special Group":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> + bro as per my information SG is 100% made up of Indian SF operators, there is little Tibetan content in this unit.




From where do you have these pics?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> I did say "relative to other units", but whatever.



Yeah...they hardly had any kit before 26/11.Marcos was the best equipped IMHO.

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> From where do you have these pics?


A screenshot from the video above bro.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> What's the background of this friend bro? How does he have such info?
> 
> 
> Another pic of "Special Group":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> + bro as per my information SG is 100% made up of Indian SF operators, there is little Tibetan content in this unit.



Probation period dropout due injury(Para SF).

The video said it has Tibetians.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Probation period dropout due injury(Para SF).


How did he have info on the NSG then? And any other details he divulged about the SF primarily to do with new equipment?



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something a member on another from had to say:


_The production quality of this video is very high,along with the commentary this seem to be a professionally made documentary.All the information seem to be accurate and detailed,there are many never ever seen before photos which are not available in public domain.Hence, I am convinced everything shown is authentic.

Still few points.

1 When they are telling about different units(vikaas) of SFF ,they show each unit photo which are authentic.When they mention SPECIAL GROUP at 14:00 they show the very same men in black in a different pose,as all other units photos are authentic (easily recognized )there is no question of this photo of not being authentic and still being used in two place.

2 We all know that SG is the most elite unit and they get the best equipment and weapons,so a FN SCAR should not be surprising.

3





The guy on extreme right is operating a scar as per my guess due to rifle stock,plus check out the sights they are the same as used in the photo below.Plus same nvg on both the photos show similarity of gear.






Hence this photo is authentic and these are Indian forces SFF to be precise.I also got to know one more thing from this video,SFF is the force and vikaas are different sub units under it Special group being one of them._

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> How did he have info on the NSG then? And any other details he divulged about the SF primarily to do with new equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Something a member on another from had to say:
> 
> 
> _The production quality of this video is very high,along with the commentary this seem to be a professionally made documentary.All the information seem to be accurate and detailed,there are many never ever seen before photos which are not available in public domain.Hence, I am convinced everything shown is authentic.
> 
> Still few points.
> 
> 1 When they are telling about different units(vikaas) of SFF ,they show each unit photo which are authentic.When they mention SPECIAL GROUP at 14:00 they show the very same men in black in a different pose,as all other units photos are authentic (easily recognized )there is no question of this photo of not being authentic and still being used in two place.
> 
> 2 We all know that SG is the most elite unit and they get the best equipment and weapons,so a FN SCAR should not be surprising.
> 
> 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy on extreme right is operating a scar as per my guess due to rifle stock,plus check out the sights they are the same as used in the photo below.Plus same nvg on both the photos show similarity of gear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hence this photo is authentic and these are Indian forces SFF to be precise.I also got to know one more thing from this video,SFF is the force and vikaas are different sub units under it Special group being one of them._



He would have known from his interaction with Ex NSG operators in their parent Para SF unit.

No other details with respect to new equipments.

@Abingdonboy

Just imagine what would be the SG's current gear and weapons.The NSG's budget was quadrupled by Modi's govt.

Forgot to mention..They are the only SF unit to be Para dropped to 13000ft.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Just imagine what would be the SG's current gear and weapons.



I'm just wondering what it is these guys exactly get up to. Being under RAW's command means they must be getting up to some _interesting_ things. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The NSG's budget was quadrupled by Modi's govt.



Indeed, I was wondering if you could provide the exact wording of this announcement.I remember at the time you saying this and I'd just like to know how it was stated.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> A screenshot from the video above bro.



Can you tell me the time when you can see those scenes which are showing the guys in black?


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## rockinghealer

Guys i have a question.. @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Is SG a separate special unit raised who are mainly comprised of Tibetians chaps or operators are mainly selected from SFF or any other unit? And How does SFF works? I means are they like normal infantry units or they do have some specialised operators among them like Ghataks or Para troopers?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm just wondering what it is these guys exactly get up to. Being under RAW's command means they must be getting up to some _interesting_ things.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I was wondering if you could provide the exact wording of this announcement.I remember at the time you saying this and I'd just like to know how it was stated.



Ya i remember you asking me for this before.The thing is that i dont have link to that video.It was Home ministers speech saying that budget for equipment,weapons and gear will be quadrupled this year for NSG.



rockinghealer said:


> Guys i have a question.. @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Is SG a separate special unit raised who are mainly comprised of Tibetians chaps or operators are mainly selected from SFF or any other unit? And How does SFF works? I means are they like normal infantry units or they do have some specialised operators among them like Ghataks or Para troopers?



SFF comprises of Nepalese and Tibetians as soldiers and Indians and Tibetians as officers.SFF is a force with the SG being the special unit.

The Indian officers belong to Para SF.

The structure is similar to a normal infantry battalion.

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## Abingdonboy

rockinghealer said:


> Guys i have a question.. @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Is SG a separate special unit raised who are mainly comprised of Tibetians chaps or operators are mainly selected from SFF or any other unit? And How does SFF works? I means are they like normal infantry units or they do have some specialised operators among them like Ghataks or Para troopers?


For starters SFF are directly under the command of RAW.

SG is the CT unit of the SFF and are almost exclusively made up of Indian SF operators but there are Tibetans in the unit also (as has been pointed out by @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ).


SFF/SG works like the Special Activities Division of the CIA. They are the "shooters" of RAW, when you hear about a certain bad guy being produced to RAW at the Indian borders then you can count on the fact it is SFF/SG who have gone in to the said country and brought this about.

Beyond this I don't know what SFF but more specifically what SG do. I would say that this unit is going to see far more use in the coming years under the "Act East" policy of the GoI, there was a recent article about Bhutan where an Indian unit was witnessed in-country and it had been speculated this unit was SFF. The SFF will be useful in building up the capacity of neighbouring security forces to counter China.


I am most intrigued as to what SG does though. The most elite SF unit in all of India, a unit that is so secretive the GoI won't even acknowledge their existence. When exactly would they be used?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> For starters SFF are directly under the command of RAW.
> 
> SG is the CT unit of the SFF and are almost exclusively made up of Indian SF operators but there are Tibetans in the unit also (as has been pointed out by @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR ).
> 
> 
> SFF/SG works like the Special Activities Division of the CIA. They are the "shooters" of RAW, when you hear about a certain bad guy being produced to RAW at the Indian borders then you can count on the fact it is SFF/SG who have gone in to the said country and brought this about.
> 
> Beyond this I don't know what SFF but more specifically what SG do. I would say that this unit is going to see far more use in the coming years under the "Act East" policy of the GoI, there was a recent article about Bhutan where an Indian unit was witnessed in-country and it had been speculated this unit was SFF. The SFF will be useful in building up the capacity of neighbouring security forces to counter China.
> 
> 
> I am most intrigued as to what SG does though. The most elite SF unit in all of India, a unit that is so secretive the GoI won't even acknowledge their existence. When exactly would they be used?



They are operational.The thing is that we wont ever come to know about them.Maybe they are in Afghanistan as most of us know that RAW is operating there and even in Tibet (obviously).

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Can you tell me the time when you can see those scenes which are showing the guys in black?


SG are shown at 14:00 and 14:28 bro

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> It is this picture that raises a lot of questions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had been quick to right this off as another foreign unit that they had put into this video on SFF- this happens a lot on these sort of Indian Military videos.
> 
> However looking closer at the picture did give me some doubts-
> 
> 1)that door looks very Indian, I can't think of anywhere else that I would expect to find one that looked like that.
> 
> 2) The use of single tube face worn (not helmet mounted) NVGs that the majority of the West has long since moved away from and the only units I have seen wearing these in recent years are the PARA (SF) and Garuds
> 
> 3) I don't know what they are called but if you look at the boots of the operators you can see a green/camo strip, I don't know the purpose of these things but I have noticed this practice is quite commonplace in Indian units (could be with others too but I've only noticed Indian units doing this).
> 
> 
> 
> And just as an aside, and doesn't mean much really the orange walls and door reminded me of one of the NSG's kill houses in Mansear:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a meaningless detail but, perhaps, worth pointing out)
> 
> 
> I'll still need some convincing that an Indian unit operates the FN SCAR though but I can't decide one way or the other right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @sandy_3126 @Water Car Engineer @Unknowncommando @kurup thoughts?



Those men 're 101% indians

Take a look at this pic posted by @Water Car Engineer here post #2227 Indian Military Picture Thread | Page 149

or
the exact pic of NSG posted by @Koovie on this thread
Al-Qaeda may be allying with IM, LeT to carry out multi-city attacks in India, says NSG
post #15

was that what you doubted @Abingdonboy or did I get it all wrong? lol (if so it happens to me all the time)

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Hmmm, could this really be Special Group?:
> 
> 
> This is believable- there's nothing special about the Tavor in India these days and the SFF were the first unit to get these weapons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is this picture that raises a lot of questions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had been quick to right this off as another foreign unit that they had put into this video on SFF- this happens a lot on these sort of Indian Military videos.
> 
> However looking closer at the picture did give me some doubts-
> 
> 1)that door looks very Indian, I can't think of anywhere else that I would expect to find one that looked like that.
> 
> 2) The use of single tube face worn (not helmet mounted) NVGs that the majority of the West has long since moved away from and the only units I have seen wearing these in recent years are the PARA (SF) and Garuds
> 
> 3) I don't know what they are called but if you look at the boots of the operators you can see a green/camo strip, I don't know the purpose of these things but I have noticed this practice is quite commonplace in Indian units (could be with others too but I've only noticed Indian units doing this).
> 
> 
> 
> And just as an aside, and doesn't mean much really the orange walls and door reminded me of one of the NSG's kill houses in Mansear:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a meaningless detail but, perhaps, worth pointing out)
> 
> 
> I'll still need some convincing that an Indian unit operates the FN SCAR though but I can't decide one way or the other right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @sandy_3126 @Water Car Engineer @Unknowncommando @kurup thoughts?


Very informative and they that orange wall when I saw first time I remind the same nsg training centre wall in the pics u posted.100 % Indian SF the helmets looks same as that of nsg.
1 vikas,2 vikas,3vikas,4vikas,special group and the last one is 6 vikas
Very nice observations bro. And also happy to see those weapons.but still some things are to be confirmed.

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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> Those men 're 101% indians
> 
> Take a look at this pic posted by @Water Car Engineer here post #2227 Indian Military Picture Thread | Page 149
> 
> or
> the exact pic of NSG posted by @Koovie on this thread
> Al-Qaeda may be allying with IM, LeT to carry out multi-city attacks in India, says NSG
> post #15
> 
> was that what you doubted @Abingdonboy or did I get it all wrong? lol (if so it happens to me all the time)


The men you are pointing out are NSG ma'am, the guys in the picture I am talking about are said to be a separate unit called Special Group. I was just wondering if I should believe that they are actually Special Group because they are carry some rather exotic weapons and ones I am very surprised they have- especially the FN SCAR.


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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> The men you are pointing out are NSG ma'am, the guys in the picture I am talking about are said to be a separate unit called Special Group. I was just wondering if I should believe that they are actually Special Group because they are carry some rather exotic weapons and ones I am very surprised they have- especially the FN SCAR.


My search by image says they 're NSG..lolzz


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> My search by image says they 're NSG..lolzz


Well ma'am these guys are 100% not NSG, the image search just says that because they are wearing black probably  

The helmets the NSG wear are actually different to the ones in the picture and the NSG don't use the P-90, FN-2000 or SCAR, the Mp-5 is their standard issue weapon (hopefully this changes in the future).


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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRAS

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## Abingdonboy

SPG miscellaneous:

In Pune:














PM departing for Varanasi:












Female SPG officer in Ahemdebad with the PM's personal security detail:

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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> Hmmm, could this really be Special Group?:



that optical sight in tavor... isn't that the new mepro-21 reflex sight??
@Abingdonboy @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR.
@Unknowncommando

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> that optical sight in tavor... isn't that the new mepro-21 reflex sight??


That was my initial thought too but it could be the Mepro MOR sight that all other Indian users (barring the IA) use with their Tavors.


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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> That was my initial thought too but it could be the Mepro MOR sight that all other Indian users (barring the IA) use with their Tavors.



no, its not...
















Mepro MOR





you see the difference?? that optical sight used by SFF is mepro-21 reflex sight.. it is not Mepro MOR sight
mepro MOR need battery. mepro-21 don't need any power...

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> no, its not...
> View attachment 182362
> 
> View attachment 182363
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mepro MOR
> View attachment 182364
> 
> 
> you see the difference?? that optical sight used by SFF is mepro-21 reflex sight.. it is not Mepro MOR sight


Like I said, my first thought was it was the Mepro-21 bro,

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## tyagi

it looks like Mepro 21 passive red dot sight

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## Unknowncommando

DIRECT ACTION said:


> that optical sight in tavor... isn't that the new mepro-21 reflex sight??
> @Abingdonboy @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR.
> @Unknowncommando


yes right bro it is the mepro 21 reflex sight




SPG CAT




MODI JI AND SPG







OLD YUDH ABHYAS 2012 PICS




CRPF COBRA COMMANDO

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> yes right bro it is the mepro 21 reflex sight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPG CAT


Just to be clear only the guy in the middle is part of the CAT. 

It's such a shame the CAT are not photographed more I guess that means they are doing their job- being present but unseen.


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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> Just to be clear only the guy in the middle is part of the CAT.
> 
> It's such a shame the CAT are not photographed more I guess that means they are doing their job- being present but unseen.



our media guys don't even know the difference CPG and CAT... and they don't even know that "Abingdonboy" a
diehard fan of SPG is waiting for their pics..

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Just to be clear only the guy in the middle is part of the CAT.
> 
> It's such a shame the CAT are not photographed more I guess that means they are doing their job- being present but unseen.


yes i know bro i thought everyone here know basic thing that the guy in tactical gear is CAT member.(the middle one)

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> our media guys don't even know the difference CPG and CAT... and they don't even know that "Abingdonboy" a
> diehard fan of SPG is waiting for their pics..


Haha, I tell you if I was a TV producer with the ability to dictate wha the cameramen filmed and with access to all that unedited film I would be a very happy man


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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> Haha, I tell you if I was a TV producer with the ability to dictate wha the cameramen filmed and with access to all that unedited film I would be a very happy man



if you are the cameraman send to cover the PM's function. i am sure, your camera will always focus on gears of SPG in there, no place for anyone else..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Haha, I tell you if I was a TV producer with the ability to dictate wha the cameramen filmed and with access to all that unedited film I would be a very happy man



Haha..when i earn millions of $$$$ i promise i will do something big related to this.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Haha..when i earn millions of $$$$ i promise i will do something big related to this.


Well brother you know that you can always enlist my services . For that kind of job I'd be pretty willing to lower my wage expectations

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> if you are the cameraman send to cover the PM's function. i am sure, your camera will always focus on gears of SPG in there, no place for anyone else..


of course not, the PM would get some token coverage but the REAL stars deserve proportional coverage also 


To be honest I doubt I would last long in that role, I would probably use up too much film filming things that were of no use to the network. Also I would likely get put on some "do not admit" list by the SPG as I would be asking questions to any SPG member every opportunity I got.


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## Koovie

So after the recent events in France, I wonder how the NSG would cope with a similar situation in India... 

Any thought on this?


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## DIRECT ACTION

Koovie said:


> So after the recent events in France, I wonder how the NSG would cope with a similar situation in India...
> 
> Any thought on this?



NSG handled 26/11 attack in 2008.. so don't you think they can handle situations like shooting in Paris, now????


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## bloo

NSG


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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> NSG handled 26/11 attack in 2008.. so don't you think they can handle situations like shooting in Paris, now????


I guess @Koovie is talking about the fact there are numerous ongoing attacks in different locations across the country. It is a valid question and one the NSG (and others in India) are surely monitoring to learn what they could do in such a situation (standard procedure for the units, just like any units around the world factored in a Mumbai style attack into their preparations. 

I have been following the French situation closely and many were saying that there was a fear the French elite units (RAID and GIGN) would be stretched too thin and wouldn't be able to cover a third or fourth scenario and this is perhaps what the terrorists were planning. 

As such I would say that today the NSG is well prepared to deal with such a situation. Now of course it depends where the initial attack happens, in the post-26/11 scenario the closest NSG hub will respond with their ready team. If it is required the NSG's main CT task force in Delhi will also be flown into assist (they would already been on alert and awaiting the call). The NSG has depth in their units too, in Delhi and the hubs there are are secondary teams who would already be starting to prepare themselves for the eventuality of responding to a second, third, fourth etc situation.

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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> I guess @Koovie is talking about the fact there are numerous ongoing attacks in different locations across the country. It is a valid question and one the NSG (and others in India) are surely monitoring to learn what they could do in such a situation (standard procedure for the units, just like any units around the world factored in a Mumbai style attack into their preparations.
> 
> I have been following the French situation closely and many were saying that there was a fear the French elite units (RAID and GIGN) would be stretched too thin and wouldn't be able to cover a third or fourth scenario and this is perhaps what the terrorists were planning.
> 
> As such I would say that today the NSG is well prepared to deal with such a situation. Now of course it depends where the initial attack happens, in the post-26/11 scenario the closest NSG hub will respond with their ready team. If it is required the NSG's main CT task force in Delhi will also be flown into assist (they would already been on alert and awaiting the call). The NSG has depth in their units too, in Delhi and the hubs there are are secondary teams who would already be starting to prepare themselves for the eventuality of responding to a second, third, fourth etc situation.



as the terrorists want more causalities, the most probable targets are metropolitan cites. in indian our police SWAT in cites are equipped to handle these kind of attacks... unlike in France india don't have any gun culture. so it won't be an easy task to bring an assault rifle to the cites unless the attackers came from sea.. something like pakistani terror boats. you can't even carry an ww-2 rifle with you in india this is not the case in france their rules allow privet person to carry assault rifles. after Mumbai attack our security forces are more alert.

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## Koovie

DIRECT ACTION said:


> as the terrorists want more causalities, the most probable targets are metropolitan cites. in indian our police SWAT in cites are equipped to handle these kind of attacks... unlike in France india don't have any gun culture. so it won't be an easy task to bring an assault rifle to the cites unless the attackers came from sea.. something like pakistani terror boats. you can't even carry an ww-2 rifle with you in india this is not the case in france their rules allow privet person to carry assault rifles. after Mumbai attack our security forces are more alert.


France does not have a gun culture either... nor is the only way of getting automatic weapons to India via the sea! From where do you think are organized criminals, naxals and separatists getting their automatic weapons from? 

And our SWAT teams are not at the level of SWAT teams of other nations like the US.... they lack experience and I have serious doubts about their training and logistics.



Abingdonboy said:


> I guess @Koovie is talking about the fact there are numerous ongoing attacks in different locations across the country. It is a valid question and one the NSG (and others in India) are surely monitoring to learn what they could do in such a situation (standard procedure for the units, just like any units around the world factored in a Mumbai style attack into their preparations.
> 
> I have been following the French situation closely and many were saying that there was a fear the French elite units (RAID and GIGN) would be stretched too thin and wouldn't be able to cover a third or fourth scenario and this is perhaps what the terrorists were planning.
> 
> As such I would say that today the NSG is well prepared to deal with such a situation. Now of course it depends where the initial attack happens, in the post-26/11 scenario the closest NSG hub will respond with their ready team. If it is required the NSG's main CT task force in Delhi will also be flown into assist (they would already been on alert and awaiting the call). The NSG has depth in their units too, in Delhi and the hubs there are are secondary teams who would already be starting to prepare themselves for the eventuality of responding to a second, third, fourth etc situation.



Good points, I also think that transportation is the biggest issue for them... The south of the nation seems to be less "covered" than the rest of the nation. I know that there are agreements to transfer them in airliners and that the NSG would cooperate with the military, but nevertheless, I think that delays will happen... we all know how things work out in India.

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## DIRECT ACTION

Koovie said:


> France does not have a gun culture either... nor is the only way of getting automatic weapons to India via the sea! From where do you think are organized criminals, naxals and separatists getting their automatic weapons from?
> 
> And our SWAT teams are not at the level of SWAT teams of other nations like the US.... they lack experience and I have serious doubts about their training and logistics.



yes they have a gun culture. more than 75% of the illegal weapons in India are smuggled through sea. maoists and other criminals got these weapons form sea route.

our swat team may be not sofisticated as the same level of US SWAT, but they are not poorly trained or equipped. NSG is training and supporting almost every police SWAT units in india. local swat unit got training form NSG's training center in manesar.
BTW, in case of a major terror strike the job for local SWAT unit is to hold those terrorists untill the NSG arrive, it is same in every country. even in US any major terror attack or Hostage crisis the local swat's job is to control the situation until FBI SWAT or HRT arrives.


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## Koovie

DIRECT ACTION said:


> our swat team may be not sofisticated as the same level of US SWAT, but they are not poorly trained or equipped. NSG is training and supporting almost every police SWAT units in india. local swat unit got training form NSG's training center in manesar.



Oh I have doubts about their training and their logistics... after all we are talking about the IPS itself. We dont know how many hours of training they get. Force One for instance had massive problems to even find a suitable training ground... and had to cut training session because of a lack of funds.

And as I said, these guys totally lack any kind of experience..



DIRECT ACTION said:


> BTW, in case of a major terror strike the job for local SWAT unit is to hold those terrorists untill the NSG arrive, it is same in every country. even in US any major terror attack or Hostage crisis the local swat's job is to control the situation until FBI SWAT or HRT arrives.



True, but lets see how the transport of NSG units will play out in a major terrorist attack like 26/11....


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## DIRECT ACTION

Koovie said:


> Oh I have doubts about their training and their logistics... after all we are talking about the IPS itself. We dont know how many hours of training they get. Force One for instance had massive problems to even find a suitable training ground... and had to cut training session because of a lack of funds.
> 
> And as I said, these guys totally lack any kind of experience..
> 
> 
> 
> True, but lets see how the transport of NSG units will play out in a major terrorist attack like 26/11....



it is not an IPS officer who leads the operations of SWAT unit. yes, there are many problems in training and logistics. but it is very common in every country.



Koovie said:


> True, but lets see how the transport of NSG units will play out in a major terrorist attack like 26/11....



mm.. during 26/11, transportation was a nightmare for nsg.. but it is much better now. with the introduction of c-130j and c-17. it won't cause as much delay for transportation for NSG as it takes in 2008. and our military SF like para(sf) and marcos are also there for ready for action in moments notice. after mumbai attack the GoI had increase the training of all the security forces in india to deal with terror attack. india is in a very much better position than it was in 2008.


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## Koovie

DIRECT ACTION said:


> it is not an IPS officer who leads the operations of SWAT unit. yes, there are many problems in training and logistics. but it is very common in every country.



No, I pretty darn sure that IPS officers lead IPS units! 

Yes, every nation has problems, but the IPS is probably the most incompetent police force in a democratic nation.



DIRECT ACTION said:


> mm.. during 26/11, transportation was a nightmare for nsg.. but it is much better now. with the introduction of c-130j and c-17. it won't cause as much delay for transportation for NSG as it takes in 2008. and our military SF like para(sf) and marcos are also there for ready for action in moments notice. after mumbai attack the GoI had increase the training of all the security forces in india to deal with terror attack. india is in a very much better position than it was in 2008.



Yes, things have improved since 2008... but the question is how much? 

Only a real life situation will eventually tell it... but of course that should never happen

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## Abingdonboy

@Koovie, I can't talk about the quality of the local SWAT units, some will be good some below par. The NSG has had a role in the formation/initial training of many but then it comes down to the individual police units once the umbilical cord is cut and they have to stand on their own two feet. Certainly some are more professionally run than others and this is reflected in the fact they continue to hold joint CT exercises with the NSG on a regular occasion.

In time it will be the norm for these units to be well trained an equipped but give it time, many are still under 5 years old (some were only raised last year!).


As for the NSG's logistics, well, without being too specific, we can be sure this has GREATLY improved. Not only do the IAF keep 1 Super Herc on stand by 24/7 for the main CT task force in Delhi and the NSG now having the ability to take control of any aircraft in Indian airspace but every NSG hub has a unit ready to get to their nearest airport and fly out should they need so. I know for a fact the NSG are now regularly training in this drill and there are the requisite contingencies in place.

The only thing that now needs to be done to make the plans foolproof is for the NSG hubs to get their own helos. Having to rely on road transportation (on INDIAN roads) is troublesome and time consuming and the NSG is well aware of it but I still think their own helos are a long way off. At best there are certain plans in place to source the local rotary wing assets located near every hub (IA, IN and IAF) and each NSG hub has a contingency in place for this with the local helo unit on board BUT clearly this is far from ideal as no NSG hub has a helo AT THE HUB round the clock and this is what is needed ideally. To an extent this is less of an issue with the NSG's main CT task force as it is permanently based at the IGI airport around the clock ready to board a plane and their kit is already packed up and ready to be loaded. What is additionally comforting about this unit is has been expended (in terms of capabilities) since 26/11 and the task force is ready to fly to anywhere in India (or the world) and be self-sufficent for the first 48 hours- this is a large part of the NSG's 2010-15 modernisation plan. 

Give it time anyway, these NSG hubs are still a relatively new concept and a huge departure from the NSG's traditional force discretion structure. It will take a while longer for the NSG hubs to get self-sufficent in their own rights (remember they are meant to replicate Mansear but on a regional level). 

A major issue, as you have pointed out, is transportation and logistics in a country as vast as India, where possible the situation will be improved. The onus is on the local units to get up to speed quickly and be a credible first line of defence/response buying time for the NSG to arrive on scene.


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## DIRECT ACTION

@Abingdonboy, bro, it is said that NSG is trained and modeled by GSG 9... does NSG have any cooperation with other french CT/SF like GIGN or RAID??... some yeas ago there was a report that NSG will be trained by FBI and other top counter-terror units,, any info on that?



Koovie said:


> No, I pretty darn sure that IPS officers lead IPS units!
> 
> Yes, every nation has problems, but the IPS is probably the most incompetent police force in a democratic nation.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, things have improved since 2008... but the question is how much?
> 
> Only a real life situation will eventually tell it... but of course that should never happen



over all control is done by IPS.. it is same for NSG. 
how much did they improved after 26/11??...mmm... only HM can say that.


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## Ranndhawa

Is Tavor is only used by S.F Or regular infantry will use it in future replacing the insas?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> @Abingdonboy, bro, it is said that NSG is trained and modeled by GSG 9... does NSG have any cooperation with other french CT/SF like GIGN or RAID??... some yeas ago there was a report that NSG will be trained by FBI and other top counter-terror units,, any info on that?
> 
> 
> 
> over all control is done by IPS.. it is same for NSG.
> how much did they improved after 26/11??...mmm... only HM can say that.



GSG 9 is not a French unit.It is German.Why do you relate it to French units in your post?

SWAT team leader is a Inspector but the entire unit is headed by a IPS officer..hope that clears something.

Regarding the improvement post 26/11 a lot has been changed.NSG got more funds and its entire training module has been modified post Mumbai attacks.



Ranndhawa said:


> Is Tavor is only used by S.F Or regular infantry will use it in future replacing the insas?



For the Infantry the trials would be conducted.

Basically,the Army and AF top brass is full of morons and nothing can be confirmed for sure.

We need to outsource some AF and Army top positions to the Navy to get everything done quickly...and indigenously.

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## Ranndhawa

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> GSG 9 is not a French unit.It is German.Why do you relate it to French units in your post?
> 
> SWAT team leader is a Inspector but the entire unit is headed by a IPS officer..hope that clears something.
> 
> Regarding the improvement post 26/11 a lot has been changed.NSG got more funds and its entire training module has been modified post Mumbai attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> For the Infantry the trials would be conducted.
> 
> Basically,the Army and AF top brass is full of morons and nothing can be confirmed for sure.
> 
> We need to outsource some AF and Army top positions to the Navy to get everything done quickly...and indigenously.


Thanks,but isn't the trials are only limited to carbines which India will procure in small numbers not MCIWS.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ranndhawa said:


> Thanks,but isn't the trials are only limited to carbines which India will procure in small numbers not MCIWS.


That is a seperate project.For assault rifles it is for 65,000 rifles and for carbines it is 44,000.

After ToT 113,000 Assault rifles and 120,000 carbines will be produced.

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## Abingdonboy

Ranndhawa said:


> Thanks,but isn't the trials are only limited to carbines which India will procure in small numbers not MCIWS.


The INSAS is going to be replaced by the indigenous MCIWS, the ongoing tender for foreign multi-cal rifles and carbines is purely for select )specialist but not SF) units, NOT for the INSAS's replacement in the Army- that, like I said, will be done by the MCIWS.

And the Tavor is not part of that foreign multi-cal tender as it doesn't meet the IA's specifications (calibres it is able to fire).

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## Ranndhawa

Abingdonboy said:


> The INSAS is going to be replaced by the indigenous MCIWS, the ongoing tender for foreign multi-cal rifles and carbines is purely for select )specialist but not SF) units, NOT for the INSAS's replacement in the Army- that, like I said, will be done by the MCIWS.
> 
> And the Tavor is not part of that foreign multi-cal tender as it doesn't meet the IA's specifications (calibres it is able to fire).


Select specialist units like SFF and MARCOS?

I know Tavor isn't included in multi cal tender but isn't it produced by IOF on licence?


Thanks


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## Abingdonboy

Ranndhawa said:


> Select specialist units like SFF and MARCOS?
> 
> I know Tavor isn't included in multi cal tender but isn't it produced by IOF on licence?
> 
> 
> Thanks


The license production of the Tavor in India (Zittara) never began for whatever reason. SFF and MARCOs already use the Tavor, MARCOs are SF and so are SG (unit inside SFF). On top of that many specialist units in the Indian CAPFs (as well as local/state police units) use the Tavor (X-95).

The specialist units I refer to who will be getting these foreign carbines/ multi-cal are purely of the army and units like RR, Mech Infantry, combat engineers, airborne infantry (not SF), pathfinders etc.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> GSG 9 is not a French unit.It is German.Why do you relate it to French units in your post?



sorry my mistakeP do nsg have any cooperation with french gign or raid??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> sorry my mistakeP do nsg have any cooperation with french gign or raid??



Nothing officially.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nothing officially.



there is cooperation in training with the french VIP Security Unit (GAHP) and NSG-SRG. GAHP is SRG's french counter part.





VIP security training by French experts for NSG, November 2013 - La France en Inde / France in India

i thought it was because of the coperation with GIGN/RAID, NSG introduce Renault ACP Sherpa.
while searching Google i found these..




> Mr Aulakh also informed mediapersons that the French anti-terror force — GIGN (National Gendarmerie Intervention Group) — had offered to train the NSG commandos.


Post-26/11, India better prepared to deal with terror attacks, says PC - Economic Times



> The NSG is also considering training with international counter-terror agencies to further enhance its capabilities. "A team from the French special force, the GIGN, had come and we went to Germany to interact with German counter terrorism force -- GSG 9 -- but this is still at the initial stage."


How the National Security Guard (NSG) has changed after 26/11 From General Military School: Georgians News, National Security Guard, Private Airlines, Mumbai Terrorist Attack, Transporting Commandos, Counter-hijack Force, Counter-terror, Nsg Director General, Indian Air Force, Director General N P S Aulakh, Nsg Headquarters In New Delhi, Mental Endurance, Physical Capability, Indian Police Service, Border Security Force, Director General Of Police, Punjab, International Counter-terror Agencies, German Counter Terrorism Force



> The NSG chief, who recently visited the German anti-terror special force (GSG 9) headquarters in Bonn, said the proposal for collaboration with GSG 9 and France’s GIGN is “in initial stages and will be taken up with the Ministry of Home Affairs”.


New NSG hubs to have permanent structures by next year - The Hindu



> Terror alerts from intelligence agencies have prompted airlines to seek sky marshals on flights to and from the Gulf countries, and the National Security Guard (NSG) is being asked to help out.
> 
> The NSG, which already provides sky marshals for flights originating from India to SAARC countries, looks set to change its manual on dealing with a hijack situation or an act of terror.
> 
> "There are several intelligence inputs about terror-related threats to flights from Gulf countries. Airlines and intelligence agencies have been pressing for sky marshals on vulnerable routes," a senior official of the home ministry said.
> 
> *To acquire better skills, NSG officers have sought permission from the ministry to train sky marshals with the GIGN (National Gendarmerie Intervention Group), a special operations unit of the French armed forces.*
> 
> The NSG also plans to buy a discarded Boeing or an Airbus in which it can provide real-time training to commandos.
> 
> "We have an assembled aircraft which we built on our own. We have been training on this aircraft for the last 20 years at our Manesar training centre. We now want a real aircraft to train our men. In all these years, there have been several modifications to aircraft bodies, so we have to change our training model," an officer said.
> 
> The focus is also on a communication system through which sky marshals can interact. "A communication system has to be evolved which will help two sky marshals deployed on an aircraft to alert each other in case of a suspicious person on board. The system has to be such that it does not interfere with the navigation system of the aircraft," the officer said.
> 
> Due to the shortage of personnel, the NSG is not able to deploy men on all flights and has asked the ministry to increase its strength. The NSG has also obtained para motor gliding s






> n another move, the NSG is to station commandos near the Indira Gandhi International Airport in Delhi. The NSG would be replacing the Labrador dog breed by Cocker Spaniels for search operations in aircraft. This is being done as it was found that the smaller Cocker Spaniel dogs can conduct search operations better in the congested space inside an aircraft. In a related move, the French elite anti-terrorist force GIGN, has offered special training to NSG commandos on a reciprocal basis.


News behind the News

France offers help for NSG | TopNews



> *SPHP training programmes for NSG, December 2012*
> The chief mission of the Indian paramilitary force, _National Security Guards_ (NSG), is counter-terrorism. Involved in training programmes with the GIGN in this area since 2009, the NSG wished to extend the scope of its cooperation with France to include close protection.
> 
> The visit of a former NSG director to Paris in 2012 and his meeting with his counterpart at the VIP Protection Service (SPHP) revealed our Indian partner’s interest in this subject. The current NSG director also reaffirmed his commitment to this training to the Internal Security Attaché (ISA) of the Embassy of France in India.
> 
> Two experts from the SPHP’s VIP Support Unit (GAHP) thus conducted a trainers’ training programme for fifteen NSG interns from 17 to 21 December 2012 at the Manesar camp in Haryana. The NSG extended a privileged welcome to this programme, which also benefited from the camp’s high-grade logistical support.
> 
> The maiden cooperation action organised in this area between our two countries, this training aimed to present French know-how in close protection to Indian partners.
> 
> The professionalism and the personality of the SPHP’s designated experts led to very positive feedback on the training.
> 
> The dialogue between the two services and expertise sharing through concrete scenarios yielded fruitful and promising exchanges.
> 
> The NSG authorities have already informed the ISA of their desire to pursue this well-appreciated exchange in 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STATIC FIRING EXERCISE
> Indian Special Forces | Page 236

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> sorry my mistakeP do nsg have any cooperation with french gign or raid??


NSG trains with GSG-9, GIGN, FBI (don't know if it is the HRT or just SWAT), Russian CT units, Israeli SF and Brazilian CT units. There is not an official agreement wherein they train for x amount of days every year but they do interact with each other and this is only going to increase in the coming years I suspect.

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## DIRECT ACTION




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## AnkurPandey




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## tyagi

nsg have purchased eotech holographic sight.but in few numbers


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## Koovie

AnkurPandey said:


>


cant see them........


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## kbd-raaf

@Abingdonboy you will be pleased to hear that one of your videos has been posted in a Wall Street Journal article

Obama to India’s president: Thanks but no thanks, I’ll meet you there. - The Washington Post

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## Abingdonboy

Roybot said:


> What does the Indian president's convoy look like when it arrives at the Republic Day parade? Watch this video below *(please forgive the soundtrack): *



To be fair I've always been less than pleased with the soundtrack of that video but I couldn't think of anything better....


kbd-raaf said:


> @Abingdonboy you will be pleased to hear that one of your videos has been posted in a Wall Street Journal article
> 
> Obama to India’s president: Thanks but no thanks, I’ll meet you there. - The Washington Post


Cool! Thanks for pointing that out

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA in KARGIL

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## Abingdonboy

@levina

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> @levina


The video says "this content has WMG which is not allowed in the country you reside in". 

Pls give me another link 
or atleast the tag so that I can search for it.


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## Koovie

levina said:


> The video says "this content has WMG which is not allowed in the country you reside in".
> 
> Pls give me another link
> or atleast the tag so that I can search for it.


Use a proxy server


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> The video says "this content has WMG which is not allowed in the country you reside in".
> 
> Pls give me another link
> or atleast the tag so that I can search for it.


I didn't realise that my song selection would pretty much block it from the entire world 

But try using a proxy server?


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## Levina

Koovie said:


> Use a proxy server





Abingdonboy said:


> I didn't realise that my song selection would pretty much block it from the entire world
> 
> But try using a proxy server?



Thats very dangerous  if my ip pops up during the random checks online then I might as well be deported.
I wish I could watch it though.


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> Thats very dangerous  if my ip pops up during the random checks online then I might as well be deported.
> I wish I could watch it though.


ooooooo, don't risk it then! 

I'm really annoyed, I like the songs in the vid but I didn't realise that WMG is blocked in almost every country in the world

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Cool! Thanks for pointing that out


Wowww!!!
Congrats!!



Abingdonboy said:


> ooooooo, don't risk it then!
> 
> I'm really annoyed, I like the songs in the vid but I didn't realise that WMG is blocked in almost every country in the world


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> Thats very dangerous  if my ip pops up during the random checks online then I might as well be deported.
> I wish I could watch it though.
> 
> View attachment 184240


Wait, it's 4.40 am where you are @levina?


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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Wait, it's 4.40 am where you are @levina?


Not AM but its PM!!!
Lolzz

Let me show you my screen...note the hours at top.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> @levina


Is this the video same as the one which you had posted in your previous post???


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> Is this the video same as the one which you had posted in your previous post???


Nope, it's a new vid that I only created and uploaded yesterday 


levina said:


> Not AM but its PM!!!
> Lolzz
> 
> Let me show you my screen...note the hours at top.
> 
> 
> View attachment 184252



My mistake, your screenshot said 4.44am


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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Nope, it's a new vid that I only created and uploaded yesterday


Oh!
Is there any other way I can access that video?
can you not upload a video sans WMG?? 



Abingdonboy said:


> My mistake, your screenshot said 4.44am


No way, my mobile clock is set in hours and not in am/pm. It has always been like that. Lol


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> Oh!
> Is there any other way I can access that video?
> can you not upload a video sans WMG??


I'll probably do that which is annoying because the song that is causing all this WMG fuss is really appropriate to this video. 

@Koovie, you've seen the vid right? Any suggestions about what song to replace the first song with? 



levina said:


> No way, my mobile clock is set in hours and not in am/pm. It has always been like that. Lol


Let's just pretend this never happened, I realise I was being incredibly stupid now

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> I'll probably do that which is annoying because the song that is causing all this WMG fuss is really appropriate to this video.
> 
> @Koovie, you've seen the vid right? Any suggestions about what song to replace the first song with?
> 
> 
> Let's just pretend this never happened, I realise I was being incredibly stupid now


Something more harder? ^^

I actually found the first song quite fitting. The second one was kinda too soft


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## Indian_Patriot

I don't like the fact that we are aping the outfit of the special forces of the West...why does the uniform have to be black..its not very practical in the Indian heat...especially if the special forces are deployed in the sun all day..they will literally cook.


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## Levina

Indian_Patriot said:


> I don't like the fact that we are aping the outfit of the special forces of the West...why does the uniform have to be black..its not very practical in the Indian heat...especially if the special forces are deployed in the sun all day..they will literally cook.


They wear black so that they dont stick out like sore thumbs.


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## Indian_Patriot

How does that work? I agree at night, black will act as a camo, but SF also have to conduct operations during daylight hours.


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## Levina

Indian_Patriot said:


> How does that work? I agree at night, black will act as a camo, but SF also have to conduct operations during daylight hours.


Naay
Afaik they color code their uniform according to the places they 're going to enter, like you will see SPG wearing beige at times and at other times grey.


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## Abingdonboy

Indian_Patriot said:


> I don't like the fact that we are aping the outfit of the special forces of the West...why does the uniform have to be black..its not very practical in the Indian heat...especially if the special forces are deployed in the sun all day..they will literally cook.


Which units are you referring to?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Today i got in touch with my friend whose pictures i posted last year(Ex RR/Ghatak guy).

So while asking him about the problems in INSAS i like always asked him about when he is planning to go for the probation period of PARA SF.We started talking about SF when he raised the topic of Vikas unit(he called it that).

I asked him about his interaction with any members he said last year while he was in Jammu he happened to meet 2 guys unusually dressed at the lunch table.(they were not wearing the ribbons and there were no epaulettes)

He went closer to them and asked them..Buddy,Why didnt you wear the ribbons?

One of those guys replied..Is that a problem?

He said..No,I am just curious because i cant guess if you are a officer or a jawan.

Then the guy said..No,we are from Vikas Unit and went away.

He dint have a clue what it was and i also used to ask him about SFF and SG which no one knows exists.

He says he then called up his friend in Para and asked them about Vikas Unit and finally came to know what it was.

Months later he was traveling to a location in the Himalayas(cant disclose it) when he came across guys carrying out drills but looking very different than the normal guys.He asked the Gate sentry if the guys are PARA but the sentry replied...No it is the Vikas unit.

He says less than 1% of the regular Army knows about Vikas Unit.It is not known as the SFF in the Army.

I asked him about the need to have a unit like this when the PARA SF exists but he didnt give a clear answer and said wait for 10 more years and you would know.(he was joking as he has 10 years left in the Army).

But he said that Vikas unit has a war time primary purpose and a secondary purpose.It is doing its secondary purpose but the primary purpose is such that the unit rightfully exists.

I asked him what purpose does PARA SF serve then and he says PARA SF is for special missions and that too for mostly on the Pak border.And then i said what about Vikas unit and he says i am sharing too much and changed the topic.

This guy is a soldier and does not have access to top secret info.His views(what he shared) are based on his interaction with PARA SF guys(he made friends with in Kashmir).

But what i can guess is that there is some secret base where Vikas unit is stationed(obviously) and there is a secret base where PHANTOMs are sent(as we know)...SO,there is the mother of all SF base in India comprising of NSG,SG and PARA SF.(or others)

Secondly,what i felt like is that the Vikas unit is trained for some high value targets but in a smaller team in a conventional war.

Whats your take?

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> Today i got in touch with my friend whose pictures i posted last year(Ex RR/Ghatak guy).
> 
> So while asking him about the problems in INSAS i like always asked him about when he is planning to go for the probation period of PARA SF.We started talking about SF when he raised the topic of Vikas unit(he called it that).
> 
> I asked him about his interaction with any members he said last year while he was in Jammu he happened to meet 2 guys unusually dressed at the lunch table.(they were not wearing the ribbons and there were no epaulettes)
> 
> He went closer to them and asked them..Buddy,Why didnt you wear the ribbons?
> 
> One of those guys replied..Is that a problem?
> 
> He said..No,I am just curious because i cant guess if you are a officer or a jawan.
> 
> Then the guy said..No,we are from Vikas Unit and went away.
> 
> He dint have a clue what it was and i also used to ask him about SFF and SG which no one knows exists.
> 
> He says he then called up his friend in Para and asked them about Vikas Unit and finally came to know what it was.
> 
> Months later he was traveling to a location in the Himalayas(cant disclose it) when he came across guys carrying out drills but looking very different than the normal guys.He asked the Gate sentry if the guys are PARA but the sentry replied...No it is the Vikas unit.
> 
> He says less than 1% of the regular Army knows about Vikas Unit.It is not known as the SFF in the Army.
> 
> I asked him about the need to have a unit like this when the PARA SF exists but he didnt give a clear answer and said wait for 10 more years and you would know.(he was joking as he has 10 years left in the Army).
> 
> But he said that Vikas unit has a war time primary purpose and a secondary purpose.It is doing its secondary purpose but the primary purpose is such that the unit rightfully exists.
> 
> I asked him what purpose does PARA SF serve then and he says PARA SF is for special missions and that too for mostly on the Pak border.And then i said what about Vikas unit and he says i am sharing too much and changed the topic.
> 
> This guy is a soldier and does not have access to top secret info.His views(what he shared) are based on his interaction with PARA SF guys(he made friends with in Kashmir).
> 
> But what i can guess is that there is some secret base where Vikas unit is stationed(obviously) and there is a secret base where PHANTOMs are sent(as we know)...SO,there is the mother of all SF base in India comprising of NSG,SG and PARA SF.(or others)
> 
> Secondly,what i felt like is that the Vikas unit is trained for some high value targets but in a smaller team in a conventional war.
> 
> Whats your take?


I don't know what more I can add bro. The Vikas unit (Special Group) are operating in Kashmir this is a fact. What they are doing in the state is less clear but It's fair to assume it is clandestine in nature and more of a strategic mandate than even the PARA (SF) units get tasked with in the state.

As for some joint NSG-SG-PARA (SF) base I am unsure if one really existed it would be more than intriguing what are these guys training for? What missions will they be sent out on? What missions are they currently undertaking?

I've been doing a lot of research on US SFs lately and it strikes me the SG/Vikas unit is remarkably similar to the US's Delta Force (operates directly under the CIA, CT is their primary mandate, recruit from their army's SF ranks etc etc) and so one can hazard a guess as to what SG does based on what Delta does (loosely). Once the Indian SOCOM is formed and the true utility of SFs is understood then things will change for the better and a clearer picture will emerge I am sure.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't know what more I can add bro. The Vikas unit (Special Group) are operating in Kashmir this is a fact. What they are doing in the state is less clear but It's fair to assume it is clandestine in nature and more of a strategic mandate than even the PARA (SF) units get tasked with in the state.
> 
> As for some joint NSG-SG-PARA (SF) base I am unsure if one really existed it would be more than intriguing what are these guys training for? What missions will they be sent out on? What missions are they currently undertaking?
> 
> I've been doing a lot of research on US SFs lately and it strikes me the SG/Vikas unit is remarkably similar to the US's Delta Force (operates directly under the CIA, CT is their primary mandate, recruit from their army's SF ranks etc etc) and so one can hazard a guess as to what SG does based on what Delta does (loosely). Once the Indian SOCOM is formed and the true utility of SFs is understood then things will change for the better and a clearer picture will emerge I am sure.


SFF has a base in Uttarakhand but they are deployed in Kashmir.Para have a base in J&K where probation is carried out.PHANTOMs are sent to a base for further training.I know where SFF and Para share a base so i am guessing either the PHANTOM are sent to that base or they are sent to SG's home base.Because PHANTOMs are not sent to a newer base.


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## ranjeet

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> SFF has a base in Uttarakhand but they are deployed in Kashmir.Para have a base in J&K where probation is carrierd out.PHANTOMs are sent to a base for further training.I know where SFF and Para share a base so i am guessing either the PHANTOM are sent to that base or they are sent to SG's home base.Because PHANTOMs are not sent to a newer base.


who are Phantoms? it's the first time m hearing bout them.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

ranjeet said:


> who are Phantoms? it's the first time m hearing bout them.

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## acetophenol

Indian_Patriot said:


> I don't like the fact that we are aping the outfit of the special forces of the West...*why does the uniform have to be black..its not very practical in the Indian heat*...especially if the special forces are deployed in the sun all day..they will literally cook.



Its a popular misconception, wearing Black is infact the best for a hot day. 

_"The best color to keep cool in the heat, it turns out, is to wear black. Black absorbs everything coming in from the sun, sure. But black also absorbs energy from the body instead of reflecting it back. Now, the helpfulness of black clothes depends on finding black clothes that are the same thickness and looseness as those summery white clothes. Black clothing also needs a little help from atmospheric conditions. Once it has absorbed heat, it has to have some way to radiate it away. If there's even a little wind, black clothing is the better choice for those who want to keep cool, like goths who understandably don't like sweating through their make-up. So find something black to wear this summer."

The Physics that Explain Why You Should Wear Black This Summer_


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

IAF GARUDS wearing Army camo 

I like the helmets..wish it was bullet proof.

They need better gloves.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> IAF GARUDS wearing Army camo
> 
> I like the helmets..wish it was bullet proof.
> 
> They need better gloves.


The helmets are ugly and, as you pointed out, offer no ballistic protection.And yes, I am quite sick of seeing these fast-rope "mittens" in use by Indian forces.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They need better gloves.


True.... you cant properly use your fingers in those baking gloves....


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## Koovie



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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


>


Are the Garuds being more concerned with Operational Security now (wearing face masks)?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Are the Garuds being more concerned with Operational Security now (wearing face masks)?



It is a fashion thing if you ask me.

The only operators who need to hide their face are those involved in Kashmir Spec Ops or the ones who would be part of a 26/11 kind of operation.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It is a fashion thing if you ask me.
> 
> The only operators who need to hide their face are those involved in Kashmir Spec Ops or the ones who would be part of a 26/11 kind of operation.


I actually think it's fair enough. Something I learnt a while back was these Garuds have to undergo extensive background checks because they perform QRT duties for some of the IAF's most critical and strategically important installations (let's not speculate which these are) so it makes sense that they protect their identity where possible, not doing so invites all kinds of sinister acts.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA

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## Star Wars

Koovie said:


>



they look like storm troopers lol


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA in LADAKH.






PARA SF Republic Day rehersal.

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## Koovie

CRPF Cobra

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> CRPF Cobra


So who is this:





UCP helmet, "CRPF" on their arms and CRPF logo on their arm, the COBRAs had none of this. Will there be a regular CRPF and CORBA marching contingent? 

Very odd.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

A Bollywood movie "BABY" based on Spec Ops has released.I just happened to see a programme "couching with Koel" on Headlines today discussing about the film and strangely the discussion went into depth about spec ops when a participant who was the Capt. of IA Special Forces comes in and says "I know what you guys are talking about and i have killed 100 terrorists lost a few men and even crossed into Pakistan" nd then he carries on with his question about why dont the Bollywood directors go into depth of the subject like makers or Act of Valour,American Sniper etc.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> So who is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UCP helmet, "CRPF" on their arms and CRPF logo on their arm, the COBRAs had none of this. Will there be a regular CRPF and CORBA marching contingent?
> 
> Very odd.



These guys have different helmets... or they did not put that cover on them at that time ?

http://***************/attachments/57-jpg.10189/


PS: I think I ve seen pics of a regular CRPF unit with X 95s..

I found it:

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> A Bollywood movie "BABY" based on Spec Ops has released.I just happened to see a programme "couching with Koel" on Headlines today discussing about the film and strangely the discussion went into depth about spec ops when a participant who was the Capt. of IA Special Forces comes in and says "I know what you guys are talking about and i have killed 100 terrorists lost a few men and even crossed into Pakistan" nd then he carries on with his question about why dont the Bollywood directors go into depth of the subject like makers or Act of Valour,American Sniper etc.


The most disturbing/messed up part is that the audience applaud Akshay Kumar for simply _saying_ he _would_ have been a spy _if_ circumstances were different, as if that deserves applause! This celebrity idol worship is sickening.

+ @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR that ex IA guy gets zero applause from the audience for having served and the guys on the stage something bordering on funny and get a huge clap, wtf is that about? If this had been in the US anyone identifying themselves as a veteran let alone ex SF would get a huge reception just for having served. Plus that presenter was annoying me, trying to make out that SF or Spys are somehow super humans and not facing the same sort of human error potential as anyone else, she simply doesn't have a clue.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The most disturbing/messed up part is that the audience applaud Akshay Kumar for simply _saying_ he _would_ have been a spy _if_ circumstances were different, as if that deserves applause! This celebrity idol worship is sickening.
> 
> + @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR that ex IA guy gets zero applause from the audience for having served and the guys on the stage something bordering on funny and get a huge clap, wtf is that about? If this had been in the US anyone identifying themselves as a veteran let alone ex SF would get a huge reception just for having served. Plus that presenter was annoying me, trying to make out that SF or Spys are somehow super humans and not facing the same sort of human error potential as anyone else, she simply doesn't have a clue.



Most of us Indians have no knowledge about our forces.A normal Indian knows more about SEAL Team 6 than SG or Vikas Unit.

Nevertheless,

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## Star Wars

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Most of us Indians have no knowledge about our forces.A normal Indian knows more about SEAL Team 6 than SG or Vikas Unit.
> 
> Nevertheless,



This Video is painful to watch....

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Most of us Indians have no knowledge about our forces.A normal Indian knows more about SEAL Team 6 than SG or Vikas Unit.
> 
> Nevertheless,



Man he talks that he lost around 35 men in the ops .i guess he is referring to the total number of causalities and not on a single op?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> Man he talks that he lost around 35 men in the ops .i guess he is referring to the total number of causalities and not on a single op?



He is talking about his entire career of killing over a 100 terrorists(himself) and loosing 35 men under his leadership and sneaking into Pakistan.


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## Abingdonboy

NSG personnel on guard during US President Barack Obama's visit to Rajghat.


Look to be a sniper unit and notice the guy on the right has a Mp-5K with a stock (not seen that in service with the NSG before).

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## Koovie

Tin buckets are still around though

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Tin buckets are still around though


Annoyingly a few still seem to be kicking around I think these are the sniper unit and not an assault team so I guess they would receive them after the assault unit guys. Still 


I'm really hoping the NSG just ditch this helmet and go for the FAST helmet, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR pointed out they have now got a quadrupled budget so they funds should be there.


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## Dandpatta

Abingdonboy said:


> The helmets are ugly and, as you pointed out, offer no ballistic protection.And yes, I am quite sick of seeing these fast-rope "mittens" in use by Indian forces.



I second you Abingdonboy - those helmets look like they are normal helmets worn by civvies on their Bajaj / Vespa scooters. Difference is only that they are camouflaged.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Tin buckets are still around though



I appreciate your concern for the safety of our operators buddy but the thing is that this appears to be Sniper team as rightly pointed out by @Abingdonboy so they wont be operating in close quarter combat.

In an operation the bad guys would never even get to see them.Like it always happens with the Indian military due to lack of funds the best equipment goes first to the guys at the front and later to others.

The home minister on the Raising day of NSG promised he would quadruple the equipment,clothing and weapon budget.

Just wait for a few years and you will be impressed.





*IC-74786M 
CAPTAIN JAIDEV THE PARACHUTE REGIMENT (SPECIAL FORCES) 
KIRTI CHAKRA
3RD BATTALION THE RASHTRIYA RIFLES *

On the evening of 19 June 2014, 3 Rashtriya Rifles received intelligence about presence of three terrorists in Buts village of Pulwama district of Jammu and Kashmir. A joint operation of 3 Rashtriya Rifles and 10 PARA (SF) was launched. Captain Jaidev swung into action and rushed with a small team of seven to seek a contact. While deploying, Captain Jaidev saw movement of three suspected terrorists 15 meters ahead, who on being challenged opened indiscriminate fire injuring the officer and his buddy grievously. Seeing that his buddy, who had killed one terrorist, was losing blood fast, the officer dragged him to safety. *Undeterred by the injuries in the leg and chest and bleeding profusely, Captain Jaidev in an audacious display of raw courage, displaying conspicuous gallantry and bold fighting spirit, closed in with remaining terrorists under heavy fire and shot them at close quarters.* The dying terrorist again fired at Captain Jaidev, injuring him in the face. Despite his near fatal injuries, the officer refused to be evacuated till the termination of operations. In the operation, Captain Jaidev personally neutralised two senior and wanted terrorist commanders. For displaying dauntless courage and extraordinary valour under heavy fire from close quarters in face of certain death, Captain Jaidev is recommended for the award of “KIRTI CHAKRA”.

P.S-All credit to @Star Wars

What a kickass guy from 10th Para SF!!

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## Star Wars

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *IC-74786M
> CAPTAIN JAIDEV THE PARACHUTE REGIMENT (SPECIAL FORCES)
> KIRTI CHAKRA
> 3RD BATTALION THE RASHTRIYA RIFLES *
> 
> On the evening of 19 June 2014, 3 Rashtriya Rifles received intelligence about presence of three terrorists in Buts village of Pulwama district of Jammu and Kashmir. A joint operation of 3 Rashtriya Rifles and 10 PARA (SF) was launched. Captain Jaidev swung into action and rushed with a small team of seven to seek a contact. While deploying, Captain Jaidev saw movement of three suspected terrorists 15 meters ahead, who on being challenged opened indiscriminate fire injuring the officer and his buddy grievously. Seeing that his buddy, who had killed one terrorist, was losing blood fast, the officer dragged him to safety. *Undeterred by the injuries in the leg and chest and bleeding profusely, Captain Jaidev in an audacious display of raw courage, displaying conspicuous gallantry and bold fighting spirit, closed in with remaining terrorists under heavy fire and shot them at close quarters.* The dying terrorist again fired at Captain Jaidev,* injuring him in the face*. Despite his near fatal injuries, the officer refused to be evacuated till the termination of operations. In the operation, Captain Jaidev personally neutralised two senior and wanted terrorist commanders. For displaying dauntless courage and extraordinary valour under heavy fire from close quarters in face of certain death, Captain Jaidev is recommended for the award of “KIRTI CHAKRA”.
> 
> P.S-All credit to @Star Wars
> 
> What a kickass guy from 10th Para SF!!



NO kidding, he got shot in the face, leg chest and still kept fighting


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

*IC-69696F MAJOR MUKUL SHARMA 
SHAURYA CHAKRA
4TH BATTALION 
THE PARACHUTE REGIMENT (SPECIAL FORCES)*

*



*

Major Mukul Sharma was operating in Kashmir Valley since January 2010 and has had a tremendous operational experience. His flair in source handling and conduct of operation is unparalleled. He has led a large number of successful operations resulting into elimination of number of terrorists. On 07 August 2014, Major Mukul Sharma got information of infiltrators in general area of Gagadari Nar at Tangdhar region of Kupwara district of Jammu and Kashmir. At about 1230 hours Major Mukul Sharma noticed movement of three persons. The three infiltrators immediately opened a hail of fire at the officer. Major Mukul Sharma stood his ground and shot down one infiltrator. He then immediately re-deployed his team to prevent other two infiltrators from escaping. The officer showed tactical acumen and presence of mind to engage the infiltrators throughout the night and prevented them from escaping. On the next day, the officer identified the position of the second infiltrator as he was firing indiscriminately at the search party. Sensing grave danger to his own troops, Major Mukul Sharma acted quickly and with utter disregard to personal safety crawled towards the infiltrator and killed him at a point blank range.

P.S-credit goes to @Star Wars

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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

*PARATROOPER BALVINDER SINGH (POSTHUMOUS),
SHAURYA CHAKRA*

*



*

Paratrooper Balvinder Singh was the leading scout of Squad No 3 of Assault Troop positioned at Samba tasked to undertake a Search and Destroy Operation on 27 November 2014 against infiltrated terrorists who were holding out in a fierce gun battle against security forces on Kathar West DCB in Arnia Sector of Jammu District of Jammu and Kashmir. Under covering fire provided by Havildar Pawan Singh, and displaying heroic initiative and exemplary field craft with utter disregard to personal safety, Paratrooper Balvinder Singh stealthily crawled and closed in towards the location of the well concealed terrorist. Sensing danger, the terrorist lobbed two grenades in quick succession and fired bursts from close range towards both Paratrooper Balvinder Singh and Havildar Pawan Singh thereby injuring them. Undeterred despite being grievously wounded and bleeding profusely, the young paratrooper demonstrating unflinching bravery and unvanquishable determination, crawled up stealthily under fire and fired accurate head shots killing the terrorist instantly thus ensuring the safety of his remaining Squad members before attaining martyrdom in the highest traditions of Indian Army. Paratrooper Balvinder Singh displayed exceptional valour, audacity in face of fire and made the supreme sacrifice beyond the call of duty.



Koovie said:


> Tin buckets are still around though



What i like about this pic is that the guy wearing the worst helmet among them is the most senior among them..speaks a lot about his leadership that too despite not being a Sniper but a support which means in case they get detected he would have to get first into the fight to protect other Snipers.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


>



Not working :/


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Not working :/


Strange, I can see it.


----------



## pursuit of happiness

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I appreciate your concern for the safety of our operators buddy but the thing is that this appears to be Sniper team as rightly pointed out by @Abingdonboy so they wont be operating in close quarter combat.
> 
> In an operation the bad guys would never even get to see them.Like it always happens with the Indian military due to lack of funds the best equipment goes first to the guys at the front and later to others.
> 
> The home minister on the Raising day of NSG promised he would quadruple the equipment,clothing and weapon budget.
> 
> Just wait for a few years and you will be impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *IC-74786M
> CAPTAIN JAIDEV THE PARACHUTE REGIMENT (SPECIAL FORCES)
> KIRTI CHAKRA
> 3RD BATTALION THE RASHTRIYA RIFLES *
> 
> On the evening of 19 June 2014, 3 Rashtriya Rifles received intelligence about presence of three terrorists in Buts village of Pulwama district of Jammu and Kashmir. A joint operation of 3 Rashtriya Rifles and 10 PARA (SF) was launched. Captain Jaidev swung into action and rushed with a small team of seven to seek a contact. While deploying, Captain Jaidev saw movement of three suspected terrorists 15 meters ahead, who on being challenged opened indiscriminate fire injuring the officer and his buddy grievously. Seeing that his buddy, who had killed one terrorist, was losing blood fast, the officer dragged him to safety. *Undeterred by the injuries in the leg and chest and bleeding profusely, Captain Jaidev in an audacious display of raw courage, displaying conspicuous gallantry and bold fighting spirit, closed in with remaining terrorists under heavy fire and shot them at close quarters.* The dying terrorist again fired at Captain Jaidev, injuring him in the face. Despite his near fatal injuries, the officer refused to be evacuated till the termination of operations. In the operation, Captain Jaidev personally neutralised two senior and wanted terrorist commanders. For displaying dauntless courage and extraordinary valour under heavy fire from close quarters in face of certain death, Captain Jaidev is recommended for the award of “KIRTI CHAKRA”.
> 
> P.S-All credit to @Star Wars
> 
> What a kickass guy from 10th Para SF!!


--
Respect... 







COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It is a fashion thing if you ask me.
> 
> The only operators who need to hide their face are those involved in Kashmir Spec Ops or the ones who would be part of a 26/11 kind of operation.


--
no fashiion dear .. 
now a days you can track person with tech
if you got one soft spot and got that you can break very heavy duty unit 
so secracy is imp with those who are in to Very very imp opsration


----------



## noksss

A Facebook review about the movie BABY

The whole world vision towards India has changed , in this changed perspective doesn't our intelligence and counter terrorism method too need a change ?
It is surprising that this movie BABY comes in the time of our new national security adviser Mr Ajit Doval talking about "offensive defense" mechanism ie when we simply 'defend' ourselves 10 out of 100 stones sent by our enemies hit us , 'offensive defense' is when we strike at the "source' of the 100 stones and neutralize it .
BABY is a movie which showcases this changing perspective in India , it does it brilliantly with fast paced action, amazing sequences that keep your heart racing all through out the movie.
This movie is far ahead of D Day in the sheer brilliant way it is executed.
There is no rhetoric and no beating about the bush in the movie , the movie is fast not dark , smart not rhetorical and keeps you on the edge of your seat.
A MUST MUST MUST WATCH for every INDIAN !

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> A Facebook review about the movie BABY
> 
> The whole world vision towards India has changed , in this changed perspective doesn't our intelligence and counter terrorism method too need a change ?
> It is surprising that this movie BABY comes in the time of our new national security adviser Mr Ajit Doval talking about "offensive defense" mechanism ie when we simply 'defend' ourselves 10 out of 100 stones sent by our enemies hit us , 'offensive defense' is when we strike at the "source' of the 100 stones and neutralize it .
> BABY is a movie which showcases this changing perspective in India , it does it brilliantly with fast paced action, amazing sequences that keep your heart racing all through out the movie.
> This movie is far ahead of D Day in the sheer brilliant way it is executed.
> There is no rhetoric and no beating about the bush in the movie , the movie is fast not dark , smart not rhetorical and keeps you on the edge of your seat.
> A MUST MUST MUST WATCH for every INDIAN !



I want to watch it but i am unable to take off some time.

This week i will definitely watch it.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I want to watch it but i am unable to take off some time.
> 
> This week i will definitely watch it.


If they actually had some ex SF/RAW consultants I might be inclined to watch it but by their own admission not much of it is based on Indian operations because they are all classified and most of it is informed from public source information from other countries and an *IPS* consultant!! 

As they said in the interview, Bollywood has been allowed to get away with not researching these topic areas enough for so long, this movie is no different.


----------



## Unknowncommando

MARCO OR PARA LOOKS LIKE MARCO COZ OF MEPRO MOR.




SPG

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 186644
> 
> MARCO OR PARA LOOKS LIKE MARCO COZ OF MEPRO MOR.


SF need a big upgrade in their equipment now. 2008-now has seen many improvements but we need to see much more, it is 2015 and the tip of the spear of India's military deserve better.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

GARUD COMMANDOS IAF

























INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## Abingdonboy

SPG's Counter Assault Team (CAT):

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## ravinderpalrulez

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hFYkZ1DyD2w/VMYcscP4esI/AAAAAAAAHzk/RhonYTWOeNg/s1600/DPR_0031.JPG

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## Koovie

ravinderpalrulez said:


> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hFYkZ1DyD2w/VMYcscP4esI/AAAAAAAAHzk/RhonYTWOeNg/s1600/DPR_0031.JPG



Let me post it for you

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Let me post it for you


NSG sniper ans US Secret Service.

Would be interesting to know how these two units interacted with each other.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG sniper ans US Secret Service.
> 
> Would be interesting to know how these two units interacted with each other.



Exactly what i was about to type. 

@Abingdonboy,

Mate,it would be great if you could give your thoughts on the NSG kit and what is left and what will we be seeing in the next 2 years.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy,
> 
> Mate,it would be great if you could give your thoughts on the NSG kit and what is left and what will we be seeing in the next 2 years.


Well let's see what the NSG was like pre the 2010 modernisation project:





















(2009^)




And now:































We all remember:







They now have all of the above (except gatling guns and UAVs with shotguns on them, wtf?)


Clearly personal equipment has come a long way with the NSG- it is night and day really and this is to be commended. However the 2010-11 NSG upgrade/modernisation plan was not all about personal equipment but three broad areas:

-Personal Equipment
-Improved situational awareness for both the unit members and commanders in Delhi and in on the ground
-Making the NSG main CT task force in Delhi self contained and able to take off from the airport with everything they could possibly need to carry out an operation and go without outside assistance for 72 hours.


On the whole the personal equipment part of the plan has delivered, yes we still have the case of the odd "tin helmet" but I've only seen this in support units (EOD and Sniper) recently and I'm sure this will trickle down from the assault teams to them shortly. I would like them to get the FAST helmets with integrated p-rails able to attach accessories like NVGs and lights but I'm not sure this is being looked at considering the NSG has just got their new helmets. 

The self contained CT task force element is in place, they are deployed at the IGI around the clock, bags packed, supplies stored and they even have specialist support vehicles such as assault vehicles (Renault Sherpa) and total containment vehicles (TCV) ready to be loaded onto a plane and go with them.


Now the improved situational awareness is the last bit that I haven't quite seen demonstrated or delivered. The idea was for all NSG teams to have personal computers and body worn cameras allowing for real time decimation of information up and down the chain of command and even back to control rooms in Delhi. The NSG has an RFP out for body worn cameras so I suspect this is the area they are now focusing on.

It is interesting that they now enjoy a quadrupled capital acquisitions budget and this coincides with them coming to the end of their 5 year modernisation plan. You never stay still in this field and they know they can't afford to so it is going to be fascinating to see what their next 5 year modernisation plan looks like because they have a lot of cash to play with and are already starting from a decent base i.e. the force is pretty well equipped. 

My speculation outside of the body worn cameras and everything that already have been introduced under the 2010-15 modernisation project:

- Perhaps looking to replace the Mp-5. X-95 maybe? Mp-7? Maybe a full assault rifle like the SCAR?
-Perhaps looking at a replacement for the SIG 550/1/3 family.
- I read that the NSG were looking to start training some teams in jungle warfare for possible HR missions that might come up in the Naxal areas so they would need to equip for that.
- just keeping up with new personal equipment in general

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Well let's see what the NSG was like pre the 2010 modernisation project:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (2009^)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We all remember:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They now have all of the above (except gatling guns and UAVs with shotguns on them, wtf?)
> 
> 
> Clearly personal equipment has come a long way with the NSG- it is night and day really and this is to be commended. However the 2010-11 NSG upgrade/modernisation plan was not all about personal equipment but three broad areas:
> 
> -Personal Equipment
> -Improved situational awareness for both the unit members and commanders in Delhi and in on the ground
> -Making the NSG main CT task force in Delhi self contained and able to take off from the airport with everything they could possibly need to carry out an operation and go without outside assistance for 72 hours.
> 
> 
> On the whole the personal equipment part of the plan has delivered, yes we still have the case of the odd "tin helmet" but I've only seen this in support units (EOD and Sniper) recently and I'm sure this will trickle down from the assault teams to them shortly. I would like them to get the FAST helmets with integrated p-rails able to attach accessories like NVGs and lights but I'm not sure this is being looked at considering the NSG has just got their new helmets.
> 
> The self contained CT task force element is in place, they are deployed at the IGI around the clock, bags packed, supplies stored and they even have specialist support vehicles such as assault vehicles (Renault Sherpa) and total containment vehicles (TCV) ready to be loaded onto a plane and go with them.
> 
> 
> Now the improved situational awareness is the last bit that I haven't quite seen demonstrated or delivered. The idea was for all NSG teams to have personal computers and body worn cameras allowing for real time decimation of information up and down the chain of command and even back to control rooms in Delhi. The NSG has an RFP out for body worn cameras so I suspect this is the area they are now focusing on.
> 
> It is interesting that they now enjoy a quadrupled capital acquisitions budget and this coincides with them coming to the end of their 5 year modernisation plan. You never stay still in this field and they know they can't afford to so it is going to be fascinating to see what their next 5 year modernisation plan looks like because they have a lot of cash to play with and are already starting from a decent base i.e. the force is pretty well equipped.
> 
> My speculation outside of the body worn cameras and everything that already have been introduced under the 2010-15 modernisation project:
> 
> - Perhaps looking to replace the Mp-5. X-95 maybe? Mp-7? Maybe a full assault rifle like the SCAR?
> -Perhaps looking at a replacement for the SIG 550/1/3 family.
> - I read that the NSG were looking to start training some teams in jungle warfare for possible HR missions that might come up in the Naxal areas so they would need to equip for that.
> - just keeping up with new personal equipment in general



I would say for the next 5 years they should start with a better BPJ and a FAST helmet would be great.






Next comes secondary weapons for all.

Then i would love to see ballistic shields.





I hope they have that hand held radar we saw with PARA SF.

Mini UAVs.

Better Radio sets.

Nomex coveralls.


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## cloud_9

A lot of these lives could have been saved with better/proper gear but looks like the babus need their regular supply of martyrs for Republic Day.

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## Gasoline

Abingdonboy said:


> Well let's see what the NSG was like pre the 2010 modernisation project:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (2009^)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We all remember:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They now have all of the above (except gatling guns and UAVs with shotguns on them, wtf?)
> 
> 
> Clearly personal equipment has come a long way with the NSG- it is night and day really and this is to be commended. However the 2010-11 NSG upgrade/modernisation plan was not all about personal equipment but three broad areas:
> 
> -Personal Equipment
> -Improved situational awareness for both the unit members and commanders in Delhi and in on the ground
> -Making the NSG main CT task force in Delhi self contained and able to take off from the airport with everything they could possibly need to carry out an operation and go without outside assistance for 72 hours.
> 
> 
> On the whole the personal equipment part of the plan has delivered, yes we still have the case of the odd "tin helmet" but I've only seen this in support units (EOD and Sniper) recently and I'm sure this will trickle down from the assault teams to them shortly. I would like them to get the FAST helmets with integrated p-rails able to attach accessories like NVGs and lights but I'm not sure this is being looked at considering the NSG has just got their new helmets.
> 
> The self contained CT task force element is in place, they are deployed at the IGI around the clock, bags packed, supplies stored and they even have specialist support vehicles such as assault vehicles (Renault Sherpa) and total containment vehicles (TCV) ready to be loaded onto a plane and go with them.
> 
> 
> Now the improved situational awareness is the last bit that I haven't quite seen demonstrated or delivered. The idea was for all NSG teams to have personal computers and body worn cameras allowing for real time decimation of information up and down the chain of command and even back to control rooms in Delhi. The NSG has an RFP out for body worn cameras so I suspect this is the area they are now focusing on.
> 
> It is interesting that they now enjoy a quadrupled capital acquisitions budget and this coincides with them coming to the end of their 5 year modernisation plan. You never stay still in this field and they know they can't afford to so it is going to be fascinating to see what their next 5 year modernisation plan looks like because they have a lot of cash to play with and are already starting from a decent base i.e. the force is pretty well equipped.
> 
> My speculation outside of the body worn cameras and everything that already have been introduced under the 2010-15 modernisation project:
> 
> - Perhaps looking to replace the Mp-5. X-95 maybe? Mp-7? Maybe a full assault rifle like the SCAR?
> -Perhaps looking at a replacement for the SIG 550/1/3 family.
> - I read that the NSG were looking to start training some teams in jungle warfare for possible HR missions that might come up in the Naxal areas so they would need to equip for that.
> - just keeping up with new personal equipment in general




Amazing, I see that for the first time  

They looks professional and well equipped .  

Especially this one (look to the pen ) :

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Gasoline said:


> Amazing, I see that for the first time
> 
> They looks professional and well equipped .
> 
> Especially this one (look to the pen ) :



The pen is mightier than a MP5

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Next comes secondary weapons for all.


This is already a reality bro, look at all the recent NSG pics, they all have secondary weapons but they carry them on their chest webbing and not on their thigh which I think is a good idea. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Then i would love to see ballistic shields.


One would assume they'd have these by now, it is hardly a question of funds as these are cheap but the fact we haven't seen them use them to now suggests it is a question of doctrine. I don't think I've seen GSG-9, FBI HRT or SAS with such shields. If the unit's doctrine is about aggressiveness and sheer violence of action perhaps they see shields as defunct but it wouldn't hurt to have them around, maybe they do? 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I hope they have that hand held radar we saw with PARA SF.


They have that bro.


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mini UAVs.


Have this too, remember the raising day demo? 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Better Radio sets.


Post 2008 they did actually adopt a new radio system but it would be good to see them get the noise cancelling headsets and FAST helmet combo you have shown below:



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I would say for the next 5 years they should start with a better BPJ and a FAST helmet would be great.



Their current webbing and BPJ is adequate if not on the bulky side, they could certainly get a much better product fi they went for a current generation plate carrier:


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## Abingdonboy

SPG:











NSG:
(the one on the left)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> This is already a reality bro, look at all the recent NSG pics, they all have secondary weapons but they carry them on their chest webbing and not on their thigh which I think is a good idea.
> 
> 
> One would assume they'd have these by now, it is hardly a question of funds as these are cheap but the fact we haven't seen them use them to now suggests it is a question of doctrine. I don't think I've seen GSG-9, FBI HRT or SAS with such shields. If the unit's doctrine is about aggressiveness and sheer violence of action perhaps they see shields as defunct but it wouldn't hurt to have them around, maybe they do?
> 
> 
> They have that bro.
> 
> Have this too, remember the raising day demo?
> 
> 
> Post 2008 they did actually adopt a new radio system but it would be good to see them get the noise cancelling headsets and FAST helmet combo you have shown below:
> 
> 
> 
> Their current webbing and BPJ is adequate if not on the bulky side, they could certainly get a much better product fi they went for a current generation plate carrier:



Ya, they do carry a secondary weapon of pistol and a knife but sometimes it is missing or perhaps they dont find the need to carry it always.

Mini Uavs- Yes i forgot.We have them.

Ballistic Shields-In Sydney incident the Aussies were carrying shields and i think it will be really useful.

Handheld RADAR-I think if they do not have it then they are in the process of having it.

Do they have shotguns?

I am waiting for the day they are equipped with FAST helmet and Helmet Mounted Displays.



Abingdonboy said:


> SPG:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG:
> (the one on the left)



Modi is a crazy guy.The problem is he is becoming predictable with his hello wave to his fans.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Do they have shotguns?


Of course, there is one for the breacher in every HIT/assualt team. They have the Spas-12 and USAS-12.




COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Modi is a crazy guy.The problem is he is becoming predictable with his hello wave to his fans.


True, look what he did after the Indian and US presidents had left the R-day function:





Look what they are showing towards the end on the left hand split- he did the exact same thing back in August at the Independence say event at Red Fort!






Anyway, I found this interesting, look who is in the back of those black safaris that travel with the PM's motorcade when in Delhi, Delhi police SWAT team members:






I didn't realise the motorcade would travel with SWAT team guys in the back, I always assumed they were simply escort vehicles with 2 regular officers riding along.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Of course, there is one for the breacher in every HIT/assualt team. They have the Spas-12 and USAS-12.
> 
> 
> 
> True, look what he did after the Indian and US presidents had left the R-day function:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look what they are showing towards the end on the left hand split- he did the exact same thing back in August at the Independence say event at Red Fort!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I found this interesting, look who is in the back of those black safaris that travel with the PM's motorcade when in Delhi, Delhi police SWAT team members:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realise the motorcade would travel with SWAT team guys in the back, I always assumed they were simply escort vehicles with 2 regular officers riding along.



Haha..and i though SPG men armed with F2000 numbering 6-8 are sitting in those brand new Safari Dicor.

So the X5 is for SPG men and Safari is for DP SWAT!?!?


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Haha..and i though SPG men armed with F2000 numbering 6-8 are sitting in those brand new Safari Dicor.


No way bro! The SPG guys won't accept anything less than an X5 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So the X5 is for SPG men and Safari is for DP SWAT!?!?


The 2 7 series, 6 X5s, Mercedes Sprinter van and Tata Safari Jammer are all SPG vehicles the others are escort vehicles provided by local police, there will be 2 local units up front and 3 behind (when in Delhi, when going out of NCR this number increases). Before the 3 behind used to be all white Toyota Qualis (can still be seen at front) now they use the Safari, maybe before it wasn't DP SWAT providing rear security and the Safaris belong to DP SWAT.

2014 PM motorcade (2 white DP Qualis up front, 3 at the rear):







2015 motorcade, 1 DP white Qualis up front then behind it a DP black Safari, 2 black Safaris at the rear of the motorcade and a DP Gypsy (  ) 






(this lead Qualis had a dash mounted emergency light which I quite liked )






+ @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I have something interesting to show you

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> + @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I have something interesting to show you



I cant wait..


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## Abingdonboy

NSG Sniper team:





























@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR tell me when you've seen this and I'll delete the parts I think don't need to be in th public domain

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

Good observation

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## Abingdonboy

NSG snipers at 'Abhinandan rally' of Prime Minister Narendra Modi








SPG:














Member of the CAT in a suit during R-Day full dress rehearsals:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG snipers at 'Abhinandan rally' of Prime Minister Narendra Modi



Snipers being sniped by the photographers

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## Abingdonboy

SPG:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Snipers being sniped by the photographers



@Abingdonboy

You were right.All the Snipers are carrying secondary weapon.Some are carrying it on the waist and others on the chest webbing.They have concealed it well.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> You were right.All the Snipers are carrying secondary weapon.Some are carrying it on the waist and others on the chest webbing.They have concealed it well.


Not just snipers bro! Since being newly upgraded (even before that) I've not spotted an operator without a secondary weapon.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Not just snipers bro! Since being newly upgraded (even before that) I've not spotted an operator without a secondary weapon.



I might have to visit the optician this weekend 

Its been long since i have seen the PSG-1..Has it gone out of service?


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## Abingdonboy

NSG snipers:








(secret service on right)























SPG:









COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I might have to visit the optician this weekend
> 
> Its been long since i have seen the PSG-1..Has it gone out of service?


Must have, haven't spotted it since 26/11, the NSG seems to use the SIG-552 in this role now.

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## MilSpec

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Snipers being sniped by the photographers




Nice team, but where are the snipers?


----------



## Zarvan

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG snipers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (secret service on right)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPG:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must have, haven't spotted it since 26/11, the NSG seems to use the SIG-552 in this role now.


NSG Snipers are not carrying proper Sniper Guns


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## Abingdonboy

Zarvan said:


> NSG Snipers are not carrying proper Sniper Guns





sandy_3126 said:


> Nice team, but where are the snipers?



NSG use the SIG-552 as their sniper/marksmen rifle.


----------



## Zarvan

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG use the SIG-552 as their sniper/marksmen rifle.


That is not even a sniper rifle


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## MilSpec

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG use the SIG-552 as their sniper/marksmen rifle.


That is interesting.


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## Abingdonboy

sandy_3126 said:


> That is interesting.


What are your thoughts sir?



------------------

NSG (looks to be a team leader) during 64th R-day (2014)








I think he's telling the cameraman not to take a picture


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Zarvan said:


> That is not even a sniper rifle



In 26/11 they had both the PSG-1 and the SIG 552 in Sniper roles and today you dont see the PSG-1 which says they prefer the 552.


----------



## Sliver

Zarvan said:


> That is not even a sniper rifle



Sig Sauer SG 550

that ll help your knowledge a little bit.

The SG 550 has a variant called SG 550 SR 
which is a sniper rifle


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## MilSpec

Abingdonboy said:


> What are your thoughts sir?


I think 5.56 x 45 is a very accurate and versatile round to build a precision platform. For special forces it is all about right tools for the right job, but in my limited understanding a DM or Sniper detail should have some more blunt force behind it like a .300 Win mag or even a 7.62 x 54R. to shoot through light obstructions.I have been reading about the 6.5 x 47 Lapua and it looks like a very promising round.

The fact of the matter remains that these forces are highly disciplined and know their craft much more than we could ever imagine. If there choice is a 5.56 variant there must be some practical logic behind their choice.

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## Omega007

sandy_3126 said:


> I think 5.56 x 45 is a very accurate and versatile round to build a precision platform. For special forces it is all about right tools for the right job, but in my limited understanding a DM or Sniper detail should have some more blunt force behind it like a .300 Win mag or even a 7.62 x 54R. to shoot through light obstructions.I have been reading about the 6.5 x 47 Lapua and it looks like a very promising round.
> 
> The fact of the matter remains that these forces are highly disciplined and know their craft much more than we could ever imagine. If there choice is a 5.56 variant there must be some practical logic behind their choice.



The 6.5 Grendel is indeed a very promising design,especially for engaging targets at beyond 1000 yards.That round is reported to be retaining supersonic velocity even beyond 1200 yards and that too when fired from 16" barrels!!Quite definitely,it can replace both 7.62X51 and 5.56X45.

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## MilSpec

Omega007 said:


> The 6.5 Grendel is indeed a very promising design,especially for engaging targets at beyond 1000 yards.That round is reported to be retaining supersonic velocity even beyond 1200 yards and that too when fired from 16" barrels!!Quite definitely,it can replace both 7.62X51 and 5.56X45.


I was actually referring to 6.5 x 47mm Lapua not 6.5 x 39 grendel, which again no doubt is a very good intermediate range round.

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## bloo

Zarvan said:


> NSG Snipers are not carrying proper Sniper Guns



NSG also use H&K PSG-1 and Mauser SP66.

http://www.defen cetalk.com/pictures/data/3091/NSG4.jpg


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## RPK




----------



## Kurlang

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG COMMANDOS



Any body please shed light on the type of the gun, these guys are holding.

Secondly, It would be appreciated if high resolution pics are upload.

Thanks in advance


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Kurlang said:


> Any body please shed light on the type of the gun, these guys are holding.
> 
> Secondly, It would be appreciated if high resolution pics are upload.
> 
> Thanks in advance



Google SIG rifles... also in service with Pak SF and police commandos.


----------



## Koovie

Kurlang said:


> Any body please shed light on the type of the gun, these guys are holding.
> 
> Secondly, It would be appreciated if high resolution pics are upload.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Swiss Sig Sauer rifles and MP 5 K SMGs.



Abingdonboy said:


> Must have, haven't spotted it since 26/11, the NSG seems to use the SIG-552 in this role now.



So what are they using for long range sniping?


----------



## Unknowncommando



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Omega007

sandy_3126 said:


> I was actually referring to 6.5 x 47mm Lapua not 6.5 x 39 grendel, which again no doubt is a very good intermediate range round.



Sorry dude,I always seem to mix it up when it come to these two suckers.


----------



## imperialmen

Unknowncommando said:


>



Aren't special forces. Neither are NSG.


----------



## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> They now have all of the above (except gatling guns and *UAVs with shotguns on them*, wtf?)



LOL.
Maybe something like this would be awesome.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

imperialmen said:


> Aren't special forces. Neither are NSG.



COBRA personnel are not even suitable for the tag of Commando.I salute them for their sacrifice but partiality is something which doesnt allow me to call anyone Commando.

In India the term Commando is misused.Every one from Kerala Police to J&K Police has commandos.Even if their commandos wont even make through the 1st stage of the Original Commando School of the IA.

In my opinion,Ghataks are true Commandos and Marcos and PARA SF the true SF.

The COBRA get trained in a school which is set up by the Army,which uses the model of CIJWS,which has the structure of CIJWS and in which the regulars of IA are trained but they think they are a Commando.

In the Army after the SF school comes the Commando school and then CIJWS and Battle School.

Now coming to the point of Special Force.The special force is a unit which carries out unconventional warfare and special operations.So NSG should make the cut.They are the last choice left with the Govt.The NSG has a lot of SF operators that too with Amphibious training.So i see no reason to not call it a special force or special unit.

Lt.Gen Katoch of the PARA SF also called them a SF in his book.

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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> COBRA personnel are not even suitable for the tag of Commando.I salute them for their sacrifice but partiality is something which doesnt allow me to call anyone Commando.
> 
> In India the term Commando is misused.Every one from Kerala Police to J&K Police has commandos.Even if their commandos wont even make through the 1st stage of the Original Commando School of the IA.
> 
> In my opinion,Ghataks are true Commandos and Marcos and PARA SF the true SF.
> 
> The COBRA get trained in a school which is set up by the Army,which uses the model of CIJWS,which has the structure of CIJWS and in which the regulars of IA are trained but they think they are a Commando.
> 
> In the Army after the SF school comes the Commando school and then CIJWS and Battle School.
> 
> Now coming to the point of Special Force.The special force is a unit which carries out unconventional warfare and special operations.So NSG should make the cut.They are the last choice left with the Govt.The NSG has a lot of SF operators that too with Amphibious training.So i see no reason to not call it a special force or special unit.
> 
> Lt.Gen Katoch of the PARA SF also called them a SF in his book.




Arent Ghataks more like heavy assault infantry? Like the German stormtroopers??


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> Arent Ghataks more like heavy assault infantry? Like the German stormtroopers??



GHATAKs are shock troops but they can also operate in small teams of 6-8 members and carry out special operations.In Kashmir they work undercover(without uniform growing beards) and have been quite successful.

They are trained well and consist of a medic,navigator,weapons specialists and team leader in small teams like in any SF.

Their school aka the Commando school has strict training and PARA guys serve as instructors there.

So,I think only they deserve the tag of "COMMANDO" in India.

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## imperialmen

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> COBRA personnel are not even suitable for the tag of Commando.I salute them for their sacrifice but partiality is something which doesnt allow me to call anyone Commando.
> 
> In India the term Commando is misused.Every one from Kerala Police to J&K Police has commandos.Even if their commandos wont even make through the 1st stage of the Original Commando School of the IA.
> 
> In my opinion,Ghataks are true Commandos and Marcos and PARA SF the true SF.
> 
> The COBRA get trained in a school which is set up by the Army,which uses the model of CIJWS,which has the structure of CIJWS and in which the regulars of IA are trained but they think they are a Commando.
> 
> In the Army after the SF school comes the Commando school and then CIJWS and Battle School.
> 
> Now coming to the point of Special Force.The special force is a unit which carries out unconventional warfare and special operations.So NSG should make the cut.They are the last choice left with the Govt.The NSG has a lot of SF operators that too with Amphibious training.So i see no reason to not call it a special force or special unit.
> 
> Lt.Gen Katoch of the PARA SF also called them a SF in his book.



What about IAF Garuds? Are they SF?

For me, terming NSG as SF is a stretch. Ignoring the component members of their unit, their role seems similar to a very highly trained federal SWAT team who specialize in close-combat, CT and hostage rescue. SF roles would be like operating deep behind enemy lines, disappearing into a populace to gather intel, seek and destroy, infiltrate an enemy unit, recon etc etc. 

But then again, we don't have any clear definition of SF.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

imperialmen said:


> What about IAF Garuds? Are they SF?
> 
> For me, terming NSG as SF is a stretch. Ignoring the component members of their unit, their role seems similar to a very highly trained federal SWAT team who specialize in close-combat, CT and hostage rescue. SF roles would be like operating deep behind enemy lines, disappearing into a populace to gather intel, seek and destroy, infiltrate an enemy unit, recon etc etc.
> 
> But then again, we don't have any clear definition of SF.



Mate,how do you know that NSG wont go behind the enemy lines?gather intel and conduct undercover operations?

The last news for us SF lovers was that PHANTOM Commandos of the NSG are sent to a secret base for further training and these PHANTOMS are the top 1% of the NSG..So what happens when the land in the secret base?..It will be a safe guess to assume that they are trained for highly secret operations which the normal SWAT like NSG wont conduct as the normal NSG is at their bases in the metropolitan cities but they are deployed elsewhere.

Apart from MARCOS and PARA SF i think the Vikas Unit and SG are well trained and are a true SF.

I dont consider GARUDS to be a SF.Their operation objective is to protect their bases,destroy enemy radars and AF bases and rescue pilots who fell behind enemy lines.They are not trained for undercover operations and unconventional warfare.They are NOT amphibious and they still do not have a EOD unit.No units dedicated to mountainous and desert warfare.

They have a long road to travel to reach the milestone of SF IMHO.


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## Abingdonboy

SPG at the Beating Retreat ceremony 2015:
































@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Modi did it again! Went around waving to the crowds and breaking away from his security cover (to an extent) just as he was meant to get in his car and drive off, they had to flip the entire motorcade around for him. Considering arriving and departing are the most dangerous times for heads of state/protectees, that Modi consistently is breaking his security cordon and moving towards the crowds and that too without giving his security team advance notice is incredibly dangerous.





SPG at the NCC rally 2015:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> SPG at the Beating Retreat ceremony 2015:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Modi did it again! Went around waving to the crowds and breaking away from his security cover (to an extent) just as he was meant to get in his car and drive off, they had to flip the entire motorcade around for him. Considering arriving and departing are the most dangerous times for heads of state/protectees, that Modi consistently is breaking his security cordon and moving towards the crowds and that too without giving his security team advance notice is incredibly dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPG at the NCC rally 2015:



He is doing crazy things.I feel he wears a BPJ but if someone takes a head shot then its gonna be bye-bye for him.

Anyways,I was checking the badges worn by the head of the Presidential Body Guard and he was wearing a badge which you get after you have done a course of firing a ATGM and the rest of the badges were common with what a Colonel wears.I also saw Naval and AF officers in the dinner party for President Obama.I do not know what their roles are but the dressing and behavior looked similar to what a ADC would do.

Lastly,the SPG was carrying a new case for the security blanket.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Anyways,I was checking the badges worn by the head of the Presidential Body Guard and he was wearing a badge which you get after you have done a course of firing a ATGM


Well the PBG are a conventional military unit aren't they aside from their ceremonial role so this makes sense. I notice a lot of the PBG are airborne qualified as well.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He is doing crazy things.I feel he wears a BPJ but if someone takes a head shot then its gonna be bye-bye for him.


I get what he is doing and why but I just don't know if it is worth it.


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## bloo

Kurlang said:


> Any body please shed light on the type of the gun, these guys are holding.
> 
> Secondly, It would be appreciated if high resolution pics are upload.
> 
> Thanks in advance



*SIG SG 551*

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## bloo

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Most of us Indians have no knowledge about our forces.A normal Indian knows more about SEAL Team 6 than SG or Vikas Unit.
> 
> Nevertheless,



@18:28 
Wow, I was surprised.There was an ex Spec Ops in the audience, they didn't show his face though.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

*Shadows leap from Bluestar past *
*If UK advised, one wing fits the bill *

*



*


*The UK documents that claim to show Margaret Thatcher sent a British adviser to counsel the Indian military on the 1984 Operation Bluestar focus attention on the botched attack by a shadowy unit called “Establishment 22” that reported to Prime Minister Indira Gandhi’s office. *
*UK Prime Minister David Cameron has launched an inquiry into the alleged British role that was mentioned in “top-secret” letters attributed to senior officials of the Thatcher government 30 years ago. (See chart)*


*There is no public record in India that New Delhi sought — and got — British advice for Bluestar, the operation to flush out extremists from the Golden Temple in Amritsar. *


*



*​ 
*But former officers who participated in the operation suggest such counsel could have been given only to the Special Group of the Special Frontier Force (SFF), the official name of “Est 22”, that even now reports directly to the cabinet secretariat. *


*The British adviser, according to the documents, was from the Special Air Services (SAS), an elite Special Forces wing that also operates only on instructions of the UK political leadership.*


*“The SFF jokers came in at the last minute and they were clearly not prepared,” Lt Gen. Prakash Katoch, who was inside the Golden Temple complex during the operation, said in a conversation with The Telegraph this evening. Katoch has since retired.*


*The toll in Operation Bluestar is still debated because of the political implications of the attack and varies from 1,000 to 2,000. The casualties include around 140 from the army.*


*“They (the SFF) were carrying rocket launchers that we were asked not to carry (because of their damage potential to the holy shrine),” Katoch said.*


*A major in 1984, Katoch was commanding a company of 1 Para, the only army Special Forces unit in the operation. Katoch said he was inside the Golden Temple complex through the operations.*


*He said that he had moved with his company from headquarters at Nahan (in Himachal Pradesh) on June 2. For three days, he and his men were surveying the complex in preparation for their task — time that the Special Group of the SFF that reached only a day before the operations could not devote.*


*“They said they were given orders and they moved without preparation. They were carrying gas cartridges made in Tekanpur that had expired in 1977. This showed how ill-prepared they were,” said Katoch. *


*“Had they been getting advice from the SAS in February (of 1984), they would have done much better with or without the SAS accompanying them. Why the Indian government would contact the SAS instead of relying on own special operations capability is beyond me but one can hardly rule it out, considering the grey matter of our political bosses,” said the outspoken Katoch.*


*“They had practically not done a recce on the ground. There were a lot of mistakes. The norms laid down in the army manual on ‘Fighting in Built-up Areas’ were violated. Most important, the main operations (on June 5-6) were on a full moon night when they should have been in pitch dark and a lot of their men were cut down by the LMGs (light machine guns),” recalled Katoch. *


*He said this showed that the army had not got any advice or the advice was wrong. “These things never get known,” he said. By their very nature all special operations are clandestine.*


*Katoch’s company was initially tasked to clear the Akal Takht and the Darshini Deori (the Viewing Gate of the Golden Temple’s sanctum sanctorum) but he was superseded by the SFF because of the political clout it carried, reporting as it did to the PMO.*


*Mark Tully, author of Amritsar: Mrs Gandhi’s Last Battle, who was the BBC bureau chief in 1984 and reported from the Golden Temple, also told an audio-visual news agency today that he did not see a British role.*


*“As far as I know, there was no role, and these reports are not confirmed yet. There is just one MP who claimed it, so, it cannot be taken as a fact,” Tully told ANI.*


*“Also, there are a few reasons because of which I am doubtful about this. First, at that time, the relations between Britain and India were very bad. The Indian government was dissatisfied with the kind of cooperation they got from British police in dealing with members of the Khalistan Movement,” he said.*


*“When I wrote my book on Amritsar, I consulted the British military attache at that time. He said that in all of his time in India, he spent a lot of time trying to persuade the Indian government to make use of the experience that the British had with a similar movement in Northern Ireland, but he got nowhere with it,” said Tully.*


*Katoch said that on the night of June 5 and June 6, the casualties were probably the highest because of the underestimation of the militants’ firepower by the SFF.*


*Part of the reason was that the Amritsar-based 15 Division of the army, that knew the terrain best, had weeks earlier been moved out to the Pakistan border.*


*On the morning of June 6, because the SFF had failed to get in and clear other objectives, the army called in tanks after enough BMPs (armoured personnel carriers) could not be found, said Katoch. *

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*Lt.Gen.PC Katoch clearly not impressed with the SFF's performance in 84.He was the then Company Commander of a crack unit of 1st battalion Special Forces of the Indian Army which was called from Nahan for operation.*

*Shadows leap from Bluestar past*


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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



He maintained some distance in the beating retreat ceremony.

@Abingdonboy do you think he wears a bulletproof jacket?


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He maintained some distance in the beating retreat ceremony.
> 
> @Abingdonboy do you think he wears a bulletproof jacket?


i really couldn't say bro but I wouldn't rule it out.

------------------------------------


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> i really couldn't say bro but I wouldn't rule it out.
> 
> ------------------------------------



The 7 series is my favourite beamer.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The 7 series is my favourite beamer.


Oh yes, of the current range of BMWs it is by far the prettiest and classiest, the past generation 7 series was not all that pretty but this current generation is sublime! 


Compared to this monstrosity:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The latest skill and weapon of Indian Special Units:-















NSG,CISF have trainers in this skill and soon to be picked up by other units.

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## Koovie

(Just kidding) 
Being able to overcome any obstacle in such an elegant way is not only a treat for the eye but also a pretty useful skill!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


> (Just kidding)
> Being able to overcome any obstacle in such an elegant way is not only a treat for the eye but also a pretty useful skill!



Yes..specially in a urban combat.I know of this sport from 2010 and i wished the NSG picked it up and now they have inducted it in their training which we all all saw on their raising day ceremony.

Here is a clip of CISF doing it..watch from 4:55

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## Abingdonboy

One of the 760Li High Securitiy the SPG took to Fiji for the PM:


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Abingdonboy

You should watch this.






The SPG guy was very quick in grabbing the bouquet from the PM's hand and came in front of the camera also.

Hence Modi scolded him by saying "what will you do standing here"

I understand this guy is the PM but at the end of the day it is these guys who are saving his *** by becoming a shield for his stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes.

Meanwhile,in USA

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## Prajapati

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> You should watch this.
> 
> The SPG guy was very quick in grabbing the bouquet from the PM's hand and came in front of the camera also.
> 
> Hence Modi scolded him by saying "what will you do standing here"
> 
> I understand this guy is the PM but at the end of the day it is these guys who are saving his *** by becoming a shield for his stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes.



The SPG duties go beyond acting like B grade bollywood bodyguards. They are expected to be working WITH the PM to ensure his security. That means ensuring his personal and professional engagements are not held hostage to the SPG needs. The SPG concerned was acting like a bull in china shop. 

A politicians is supposed to have unlimited "stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes". Its their bread and butter.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Prajapati said:


> The SPG duties go beyond acting like B grade bollywood bodyguards. They are expected to be working WITH the PM to ensure his security. That means ensuring his personal and professional engagements are not held hostage to the SPG needs. The SPG concerned was acting like a bull in china shop.
> 
> A politicians is supposed to have unlimited "stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes". Its their bread and butter.



No way.He is the only one who breaks the protocol.MMS didnt do it,ABV didnt do it and neither does Obama and Putin do it.

If he gets shot at or stabbed then the blame will go on SPG.

When JFK can get shot at in USA then i dont think he will be any safer considering his anti Pakistan stand and past doings.

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## Abingdonboy

Prajapati said:


> The SPG duties go beyond acting like B grade bollywood bodyguards. They are expected to be working WITH the PM to ensure his security. That means ensuring his personal and professional engagements are not held hostage to the SPG needs. The SPG concerned was acting like a bull in china shop.
> 
> A politicians is supposed to have unlimited "stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes". Its their bread and butter.


No i don't agree at all. The PM of India is not the PM of Belgium or the Netherlands that can cycle around their capital city with no bodyguard in sight. The PM of India now lives in the very same sanitised "bubble" the POTUS lives in and for good reason. There will always be a conflict of interests between the bodyguards and the politician but at the end of the day it has to be the professionals' call where matters of security are concerned. 

This is why you have seen Modi use the PM's motorcade (BMWs and such) since being in office despite all the nonsense he would continue to use armoured Scorpios (I knew this would NEVER fly). 

Modi needs to understand these guys are not intentionally getting in his way or holding him back out of malice but are professionals trying to do a job, their entire careers have been devoted to this objective and they are paid to do this only and they are exceptionally good at it. By pulling the kind of stunts he does (consistently) he is making their lives absurdly difficult. 

Modi needs to tone it down a bit BUT, this is the issue, he is the PM, the SPG can't have its way on everything and Modi is going to keep pulling these stunts and this could all end in tears.

As @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has alluded to, JFK was killed because he directly went against the advice of the Secret Service, they had lined up bullet proof (enclosed) limos but he wanted to go in a convertible and he even told the secret service agents who were lined next to the vehicle to back off so the public could see him, we all know how that ended..... 

Since that incident the Secret Service has been empowered to dictate (yes dictate) to the POTUS their security arrangements and have not suffered another dead POTUS (Regan's assassination attempt came close and this was primarily down to some incompetance on the Secret Service's part but they have altered their SOPs and nothing similar has happened since). 




COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The SPG guy was very quick in grabbing the bouquet from the PM's hand and came in front of the camera also.
> 
> Hence Modi scolded him by saying "what will you do standing here"
> 
> I understand this guy is the PM but at the end of the day it is these guys who are saving his *** by becoming a shield for his stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes.



Yeah I saw this at the time bro and initially I was pretty annoyed, it's quite unfair of Modi to publicly scold a member of the SPG in public like that, these things should be done behind closed doors. But this is the kind of guy Modi is and what makes him the leader he is. Clearly he wants to be in the public eye as much as possible.

I've noticed that since this incident the SPG guys around Modi are VERY aware of where the cameras are pointing and where possible remove themselves from the shot and make sure not to obstruct the camera's view of the PM.

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## Prajapati

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No way.He is the only one who breaks the protocol.MMS didnt do it,ABV didnt do it and neither does Obama and Putin do it.
> 
> If he gets shot at or stabbed then the blame will go on SPG.
> 
> When JFK can get shot at in USA then i dont think he will be any safer considering his anti Pakistan stand and past doings.



Utter nonsense. Safety Protocol exist for the PM, PM does not exist for protocols. 

You are in no position to comment on MMS, ABV, Obama or Putin, so best not to make a fool of yourself. 

If the PM ever gets shot or stabbed or anything of that sort, the blame SHOULD go to the SPG. So they better learn to do their job better without restricting unrealistic conditions on the PM.



Abingdonboy said:


> No i don't agree at all. The PM of India is not the PM of Belgium or the Netherlands that can cycle around their capital city with no bodyguard in sight. The PM of India now lives in the very same sanitised "bubble" the POTUS lives in and for good reason. There will always be a conflict of interests between the bodyguards and the politician but at the end of the day it has to be the professionals' call where matters of security are concerned.
> 
> This is why you have seen Modi use the PM's motorcade (BMWs and such) since being in office despite all the nonsense he would continue to use armoured Scorpios (I knew this would NEVER fly).
> 
> Modi needs to understand these guys are not intentionally getting in his way or holding him back out of malice but are professionals trying to do a job, their entire careers have been devoted to this objective and they are paid to do this only and they are exceptionally good at it. By pulling the kind of stunts he does (consistently) he is making their lives absurdly difficult.
> 
> Modi needs to tone it down a bit BUT, this is the issue, he is the PM, the SPG can't have its way on everything and Modi is going to keep pulling these stunts and this could all end in tears.
> 
> As @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has alluded to, JFK was killed because he directly went against the advice of the Secret Service, they had lined up bullet proof (enclosed) limos but he wanted to go in a convertible and he even told the secret service agents who were lined next to the vehicle to back off so the public could see him, we all know how that ended.....
> 
> Since that incident the Secret Service has been empowered to dictate (yes dictate) to the POTUS their security arrangements and have not suffered another dead POTUS (Regan's assassination attempt came close and this was primarily down to some incompetance on the Secret Service's part but they have altered their SOPs and nothing similar has happened since).
> 
> Yeah I saw this at the time bro and initially I was pretty annoyed, it's quite unfair of Modi to publicly scold a member of the SPG in public like that, these things should be done behind closed doors. But this is the kind of guy Modi is and what makes him the leader he is. Clearly he wants to be in the public eye as much as possible.
> 
> I've noticed that since this incident the SPG guys around Modi are VERY aware of where the cameras are pointing and where possible remove themselves from the shot and make sure not to obstruct the camera's view of the PM.



Its a chicken and egg thing. But end of the day the PM gets to call the shots. The SPG is required to work around the PM, not the other way around.


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## Abingdonboy

Prajapati said:


> If the PM ever gets shot or stabbed or anything of that sort, the blame SHOULD go to the SPG. So they better learn to do their job better without restricting unrealistic conditions on the PM.


Now this is nonsensical. The SPG will outline a certain security protocol for the PM (he would have been briefed on this many times by now) i.e. no close quarter interactions with large scale crowds, no breaking of security cordons and such. BUT if the PM chooses to ignore this advice of the SPG and intentionally put himself in harm's way then how can one blame the SPG? They can't secure the entire world. They are not supermen.



Prajapati said:


> Its a chicken and egg thing. But end of the day the PM gets to call the shots. The SPG is required to work around the PM, not the other way around.


In certain cases the SPG won't budge and have the final say (Motorcade is a key example) but with the breaking of security cordon and such it's not like the SPG can physically drag the PM back to his car so they have to accommodate him and work around the problems he is causing. 

This is a pretty fundamental issue in head of State protection and will always be an issue- the security team and the politician will always have divergent interests.


All I am saying is Modi needs to be more concerned of his own safety and make the job of the SPG easier because at the end of the day they only have one job and they would lay their lives down for him.

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## Prajapati

Abingdonboy said:


> Now this is nonsensical. The SPG will outline a certain security protocol for the PM (he would have been briefed on this many times by now) i.e. no close quarter interactions with large scale crowds, no breaking of security cordons and such. BUT if the PM chooses to ignore this advice of the SPG and intentionally put himself in harm's way then how can one blame the SPG? They can't secure the entire world. They are not supermen.



Rubbish. SPG has to do more than outline security protocol. It has to actively pursue, track and tract all threats to the PM.

No PM goes out of his way to put himself in harms way. That is just an excuse for the SPG not doings it job.

The PM does what he has to do. His security needs to work around that. Period.The SPG might not be supermen since they are not required to be one, but their TEAM better be one super invincible team. They are not required to sanitize the whole world, they are only required to sanitise all the places the PM will visit. That is their JOB.



> In certain cases the SPG won't budge and have the final say (Motorcade is a key example) but with the breaking of security cordon and such it's not like the SPG can physically drag the PM back to his car so they have to accommodate him and work around the problems he is causing.
> 
> This is a pretty fundamental issue in head of State protection and will always be an issue- the security team and the politician will always have divergent interests.
> 
> All I am saying is Modi needs to be more concerned of his own safety and make the job of the SPG easier because at the end of the day they only have one job and they would lay their lives down for him.



There is NOTHING to indicate that the PM is putting himself in harms way or that he is suicidal. Not after he has fought long and hard to get where he is.

The PM needs to be more concerned for the safety, security, prosperity of his countrymen. His own safety is the job of the SPG.

The PM devotes his life to the Nation. SPG's job or sacrifice is not greater than that.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Prajapati said:


> Rubbish. SPG has to do more than outline security protocol. It has to actively pursue, track and tract all threats to the PM.
> 
> No PM goes out of his way to put himself in harms way. That is just an excuse for the SPG not doings it job.
> 
> The PM does what he has to do. His security needs to work around that. Period.The SPG might not be supermen since they are not required to be one, but their TEAM better be one super invincible team. They are not required to sanitize the whole world, they are only required to sanitise all the places the PM will visit. That is their JOB.
> 
> 
> 
> There is NOTHING to indicate that the PM is putting himself in harms way or that he is suicidal. Not after he has fought long and hard to get where he is.
> 
> The PM needs to be more concerned for the safety, security, prosperity of his countrymen. His own safety is the job of the SPG.
> 
> The PM devotes his life to the Nation. SPG's job or sacrifice is not greater than that.



And waving like a circus clown is part of the job as a PM?

You have no idea what you are talking about.JFK and Benazir died because of similar attitude towards their security.

And this attitude is only show.He is not going to do anything good to this nation by walking 10 steps and saying 'hello' to the crowd.

SPG has the responsibility for his security.We have had 2 former PM die and their security getting blamed.

The tone in which he questioned the SPG was disrespectful and full of arrogance.He should remember the fact that he has upset a lot of people in the world by his past doings and his anti-Pakistan stance.The only people who would save his *** for his crowd pleasing dramas are these guys.

But this is India and i dont expect out netas to be anywhere close to what Americans are.Had this been the case with Obama he would have been criticised.

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## Abingdonboy

Prajapati said:


> Rubbish. SPG has to do more than outline security protocol. It has to actively pursue, track and tract all threats to the PM.


Well what you are saying is actually under the purview of multiple security agencies (IB, R&AW, NRTO, DIA, local police and SPG) and it is evident these professionals are doing just this BUT they cannot rule out all risks.



Prajapati said:


> No PM goes out of his way to put himself in harms way. That is just an excuse for the SPG not doings it job.


Excuse me, the SPG IS doing their job! Has any harm come to the PM (or any other PM under their care)? No. Until this changes we cannot but praise their job.



Prajapati said:


> The PM does what he has to do.


Does he NEED, to break his security cordon?



Prajapati said:


> His security needs to work around that. Period.


Again, what nonsense. How can anyone be expected to deliver optimal performance under these conditions? The SPG may create an elaborate security plan that minimises all risk for the PM to cast these arrangements aside and put himself in harm's way.

Whose fault will it be if he comes to harm? Are you saying the PM is under no obligation to follow the advice of PROFESSIONALS charged with his security?



Prajapati said:


> The SPG might not be supermen since they are not required to be one, but their TEAM better be one super invincible team.


They are only as invincible as the PM allows them to be. If he is breaking away from them:



















He was in the car, being driven away as per the SPG's plan, HE stopped the motorcade, left the security and wondered into the crowd of children. They reacted as fast as they could of course but one can't get away from the fact the PM put himself at risk where the SPG would have avoided it (and were). What should they do? Tackle him to the ground and drag him back into the car?



Prajapati said:


> They are not required to sanitize the whole world, they are only required to sanitise all the places the PM will visit. That is their JOB.


You don't think this happens? At every sight the PM will make a public appearance ( Beating retreat, Red fort, Rajpanth) the public would have had to go through multiple checks BUT does this rule out all risk? Of course not. When he is walking down Rajpanth or moving towards huge crowds at the Beating Retreat ceremony there is the possibility someone in that crowd has malicious intent and God knows what they can do and with what.





Prajapati said:


> There is NOTHING to indicate that the PM is putting himself in harms way or that he is suicidal. Not after he has fought long and hard to get where he is.


I'm not saying he is suicidal at all (of course not) but he is putting himself at risk where he doesn't need to. i mean, this was just stupid:






Modi asked for the Motorcade to be stopped. There is no way that everyone (or even anyone) lining the streets of Kathmandu had been checked. This is in a foreign nation where the SPG cannot dictate the security terms to the local agencies like they can in India so it is hardly their fault if the crowds are unchecked. No way would the SPG have advised Modi to do this and yet he still did.

Please tell me how this was a good idea, how Modi wasn't putting himself at undue risk here and how the SPG was expected to ensure his safety?

Same thing, this time in Australia:






Again, how is the SPG expected to dictate to the Australian agencies that these folks were to be checked?



Understand that if it was up the the SPG the PM would be sat in some underground bunker and never leave, it is the compulsions of the PM that mean they have to come up with more elaborate security plans to keep him safe in inherently unsafe situations but they cannot do this without a degree of cooperation from the PM.



Prajapati said:


> The PM needs to be more concerned for the safety, security, prosperity of his countrymen. His own safety is the job of the SPG.


Indeed, BUT, in order to fulfil his election promises and achieve his ambitions he needs to be alive and for this he needs to be worried about his own security too and for this he needs to listen to the SPG.



Prajapati said:


> The PM devotes his life to the Nation. SPG's job or sacrifice is not greater than that.


Come on now, the SPG are serving their nation just like Modi is serving his, how can you possibly weigh one person's service as greater than another? Without the SPG God knows how many PMs India would have lost over the years and what kind of mess India would be in as a result. This is totally unfair.

The SPG serve their nation in their way, the PM in his.

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## Prajapati

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And waving like a circus clown is part of the job as a PM?
> 
> You have no idea what you are talking about.JFK and Benazir died because of similar attitude towards their security.
> 
> And this attitude is only show.He is not going to do anything good to this nation by walking 10 steps and saying 'hello' to the crowd.
> 
> SPG has the responsibility for his security.We have had 2 former PM die and their security getting blamed.
> 
> The tone in which he questioned the SPG was disrespectful and full of arrogance.He should remember the fact that he has upset a lot of people in the world by his past doings and his anti-Pakistan stance.The only people who would save his *** for his crowd pleasing dramas are these guys.
> 
> But this is India and i dont expect out netas to be anywhere close to what Americans are.Had this been the case with Obama he would have been criticised.



Errr ... yes. Waving like a circus clown is part of the job as PM or President or ANY country. Which is why all of them do it. 

His tone when he addressed the SPG was *irritated *not arrogant. Stop spinning it to suite your political agenda. 

India sensibilities are very different from US sensibilities. I quite like it he Indian way, you don't like it, push of to the US. Either way spare us your condescending comparison.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> And waving like a circus clown is part of the job as a PM?
> 
> *You have no idea what you are talking about.JFK and Benazir died because of similar attitude towards their security.*
> 
> And this attitude is only show.He is not going to do anything good to this nation by walking 10 steps and saying 'hello' to the crowd.
> 
> SPG has the responsibility for his security.We have had 2 former PM die and their security getting blamed.
> 
> The tone in which he questioned the SPG was disrespectful and full of arrogance.He should remember the fact that he has upset a lot of people in the world by his past doings and his anti-Pakistan stance.The only people who would save his *** for his crowd pleasing dramas are these guys.
> 
> But this is India and i dont expect out netas to be anywhere close to what Americans are.Had this been the case with Obama he would have been criticised.



she died due to her own ignorance (lack of words)... when you have just survived an attack on your life... you dont pop you head from the sun roof and wave at people... her politician frnds were also idiots who didnt stop her... but than again she wasnt a PM.. nor was she provided much security...

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## Prajapati

Abingdonboy said:


> Well what you are saying is actually under the purview of multiple security agencies (IB, R&AW, NRTO, DIA, local police and SPG) and it is evident these professionals are doing just this BUT they cannot rule out all risks.
> 
> 
> Excuse me, the SPG IS doing their job! Has any harm come to the PM (or any other PM under their care)? No. Until this changes we cannot but praise their job.
> 
> 
> Does he NEED, to break his security cordon?
> 
> 
> Again, what nonsense. How can anyone be expected to deliver optimal performance under these conditions? The SPG may create an elaborate security plan that minimises all risk for the PM to cast these arrangements aside and put himself in harm's way.
> 
> Whose fault will it be if he comes to harm? Are you saying the PM is under no obligation to follow the advice of PROFESSIONALS charged with his security?
> 
> 
> They are only as invincible as the PM allows them to be. If he is breaking away from them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was in the car, being driven away as per the SPG's plan, HE stopped the motorcade, left the security and wondered into the crowd of children. They reacted as fast as they could of course but one can't get away from the fact the PM put himself at risk where the SPG would have avoided it (and were). What should they do? Tackle him to the ground and drag him back into the car?
> 
> 
> You don't think this happens? At every sight the PM will make a public appearance ( Beating retreat, Red fort, Rajpanth) the public would have had to go through multiple checks BUT does this rule out all risk? Of course not. When he is walking down Rajpanth or moving towards huge crowds at the Beating Retreat ceremony there is the possibility someone in that crowd has malicious intent and God knows what they can do and with what.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying he is suicidal at all (of course not) but he is putting himself at risk where he doesn't need to. i mean, this was just stupid:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modi asked for the Motorcade to be stopped. There is no way that everyone (or even anyone) lining the streets of Kathmandu had been checked. This is in a foreign nation where the SPG cannot dictate the security terms to the local agencies like they can in India so it is hardly their fault if the crowds are unchecked. No way would the SPG have advised Modi to do this and yet he still did.
> 
> Please tell me how this was a good idea, how Modi wasn't putting himself at undue risk here and how the SPG was expected to ensure his safety?
> 
> Same thing, this time in Australia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, how is the SPG expected to dictate to the Australian agencies that these folks were to be checked?
> 
> 
> 
> Understand that if it was up the the SPG the PM would be sat in some underground bunker and never leave, it is the compulsions of the PM that mean they have to come up with more elaborate security plans to keep him safe in inherently unsafe situations but they cannot do this without a degree of cooperation from the PM.
> 
> 
> Indeed, BUT, in order to fulfil his election promises and achieve his ambitions he needs to be alive and for this he needs to be worried about his own security too and for this he needs to listen to the SPG.
> 
> 
> Come on now, the SPG are serving their nation just like Modi is serving his, how can you possibly weigh one person's service as greater than another? Without the SPG God knows how many PMs India would have lost over the years and what kind of mess India would be in as a result. This is totally unfair.
> 
> The SPG serve their nation in their way, the PM in his.



I will keep it short. The PM does what he HAS to do. He knows his job far better than the SPG knows his job. BTW your assumption is wrong that tShe PG cannot dictate to foreign govt. about the security required to be put in place Even in Australia, the SPG gets to have final say in the security matters regarding the Indian PM.


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## Abingdonboy

Prajapati said:


> BTW your assumption is wrong that tShe PG cannot dictate to foreign govt. about the security required to be put in place Even in Australia, the SPG gets to have final say in the security matters regarding the Indian PM.


This is categorically false. The host nation has the final say on all security arrangements, after all it is their soil. Just look at Obama's trip to India, did the US Secret Service get everyone they wanted?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Prajapati said:


> Errr ... yes. Waving like a circus clown is part of the job as PM or President or ANY country. Which is why all of them do it.
> 
> His tone when he addressed the SPG was *irritated *not arrogant. Stop spinning it to suite your political agenda.
> 
> India sensibilities are very different from US sensibilities. I quite like it he Indian way, you don't like it, push of to the US. Either way spare us your condescending comparison.



I have never seen any PM do things what he does.

And yeah i vote for BJP but i am not on their payroll..and kindly keep your politics out of this thread.

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## Prajapati

Abingdonboy said:


> This is categorically false. The host nation has the final say on all security arrangements, after all it is their soil. Just look at Obama's trip to India, did the US Secret Service get everyone they wanted?



I meant the SPG will get to have their say. Obviously they cannot override the details of the host nation.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have never seen any PM do things what he does.
> 
> And yeah i vote for BJP but i am not on their payroll..and kindly keep your politics out of this thread.



...and you will continue to see many things Modi does that previous PM would never have done. That means nothing in itself.


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## Abingdonboy

Para (SF) Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun 

_*February 02, 2015:* _The Para (SF) units of the Indian Army require an unspecified number of General Purpose Machine Guns (GPMG) on a fast-track basis for which an RFI is expected shortly. The new general purpose machine guns will be for its Parachute (Special Forces) battalions to augment and later replace the license-built Belgian MAG-58 and Soviet-era PKM GPMGs currently in use by the battalions. The weapon needs to be fully interoperable with the current weapons in terms of ammunition compatibility (OFB 7.62x51mm rounds, which will have to be demonstrated in trials), with a barrel life of at least 20,000 rounds. The army has stipulated that it requires a 7.62mm x 51mm caliber weapon to serve as both a light and medium machine gun. The army is looking for a weapon with greater range than an LMG and lighter than an MMG, with a maximum effective range of 1,000-metres. Expectedly, the army would prefer parallel supply of telescopic sights by the OEM, but definitely wants standard Mil 1913 picatinny rails on the weapon to mount different types of sighting systems. As with the two current weapons in service, the army will be looking to use the new GPMGs in multiple modes: as an infantry weapon in different profiles, vehicle mounted and heliborne operations. In 2010 and 2014, the Army said it was also interested in looking at a new 12.7x99mm heavy machine gun for use on a Light Strike Vehicle/Infantry Fighting Vehicle and in a ground role while mounted on vehicle and tripod respectively. The fresh RFI is expected to be published in March this year, with the Army looking to move quickly for a contract.

Para SF Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun - SP's MAI

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Para (SF) Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun
> 
> _*February 02, 2015:* _The Para (SF) units of the Indian Army require an unspecified number of General Purpose Machine Guns (GPMG) on a fast-track basis for which an RFI is expected shortly. The new general purpose machine guns will be for its Parachute (Special Forces) battalions to augment and later replace the license-built Belgian MAG-58 and Soviet-era PKM GPMGs currently in use by the battalions. The weapon needs to be fully interoperable with the current weapons in terms of ammunition compatibility (OFB 7.62x51mm rounds, which will have to be demonstrated in trials), with a barrel life of at least 20,000 rounds. The army has stipulated that it requires a 7.62mm x 51mm caliber weapon to serve as both a light and medium machine gun. The army is looking for a weapon with greater range than an LMG and lighter than an MMG, with a maximum effective range of 1,000-metres. Expectedly, the army would prefer parallel supply of telescopic sights by the OEM, but definitely wants standard Mil 1913 picatinny rails on the weapon to mount different types of sighting systems. As with the two current weapons in service, the army will be looking to use the new GPMGs in multiple modes: as an infantry weapon in different profiles, vehicle mounted and heliborne operations. In 2010 and 2014, the Army said it was also interested in looking at a new 12.7x99mm heavy machine gun for use on a Light Strike Vehicle/Infantry Fighting Vehicle and in a ground role while mounted on vehicle and tripod respectively. The fresh RFI is expected to be published in March this year, with the Army looking to move quickly for a contract.
> 
> Para SF Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun
> - SP's MAI



GARUDs are already using NEGEV..wonder what will the Army go for.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> GARUDs are already using NEGEV..wonder what will the Army go for.


Indeed, as are the MARCOs (and Punjab Police SWAT team  )

For interoperability sake the NEGEV seems like the logical choice I guess.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, as are the MARCOs (and Punjab Police SWAT team  )
> 
> For interoperability sake the NEGEV seems like the logical choice I guess.


Kindly share the Marcos pic with Negev.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Kindly share the Marcos pic with Negev.


They were the first unit in India equipped with it:







This pic has got to be 9+ years old now.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> They were the first unit in India equipped with it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This pic has got to be 9+ years old now.



Ya i know but no pic was flashing in my mind hence i asked you to upload it.

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## utraash

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> You should watch this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SPG guy was very quick in grabbing the bouquet from the PM's hand and came in front of the camera also.
> 
> Hence Modi scolded him by saying "what will you do standing here"
> 
> I understand this guy is the PM but at the end of the day it is these guys who are saving his *** by becoming a shield for his stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes.
> 
> Meanwhile,in USA



To me, modi shown bit of arrogance while fully aware of that SPG man was just trying help him around n got incidentally infront of the camera...... 
I have met few security personnel of his state at state data centre inside the state assembly complex in Gandhi Nagar n was told that he personally had scolded the security staff not deploying appropriate security measures around that building.... 
SDC serve as centre where every village panchayat is connected to state secretariat building 24x7 ....

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## Abingdonboy

SPG:

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## noksss

10th Para 'Desert Scorpions' sniper team on a Polaris ATV.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> 10th Para 'Desert Scorpions' sniper team on a Polaris ATV.



This pic is going to be a year old in a few months.I wish they get some dirt bikes.In the Indian market the Hero Impulse would be great.

Even the CRPF has gone for stylish in class bikes and not for a dirt bike like Impulse which would have helped their job.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This pic is going to be a year old in a few months.I wish they get some dirt bikes.In the Indian market the Hero Impulse would be great.
> 
> Even the CRPF has gone for stylish in class bikes and not for a dirt bike like Impulse which would have helped their job.


 Nothing wrong with ATVs in this kind of desert terrain, they can carry far more than any dirtbike as well as being able to navigate where motorbikes may get stuck (sand dunes and the like). For SFs a combination of ATVs and dirtbikes are good.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Nothing wrong with ATVs in this kind of desert terrain, they can carry far more than any dirtbike as well as being able to navigate where motorbikes may get stuck (sand dunes and the like). For SFs a combination of ATVs and dirtbikes are good.


Bro,dirt bikes can climb shallow slopes.ATVs cant.Plus you minimise the effect of IEDs on 2 wheels.


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## Abingdonboy

You can see the kind of frenzy Modi caused by his walk:









Lol at the "body language" expert analysing a man walking down a road 


Such a shame we don't see more of this motorcade in the news/pic/video, it is so cool

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## noksss




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


>



One guy wont like this pic...and the guy has a big dong.


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## Koovie

noksss said:


>



Not special forces and its an old one

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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


>


Ah man, there it is AGAIN!! 

IN VBSS teams constantly being identified as MARCOs and to make matters worse this is on Wikipedia! 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> One guy wont like this pic...and the guy has a big dong.


Lol bro, I replied to that before I saw this post, you called it

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF COBRA
SPG

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Discovery Channel coming up with a documentary on Yudh Abhyas between the Gurkhas and Arctic Wolves of the US Army on 23rd Feburary at 9pm.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Discovery Channel coming up with a documentary on Yudh Abhyas between the Gurkhas and Arctic Wolves of the US Army on 23rd Feburary at 9pm.


Must be from the 2014 YA edition.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Must be from the 2014 YA edition.


Yup..i cant wait..


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yup..i cant wait..


Meh, that exercise was very underwhelming, I'd have preferred to see such a documentary on the 2013 edition in India where there was a (considerable) Indian SF presence. AFAIK there was no SF presence in the 2014 edition (from either side).

And while we are dreaming they they should do a documentary on the annual joint US-Indian SF exercise Vajra Prahar, none of them since 2011 have been publicised in anyway shape or form- not a single picture or video!!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Meh, that exercise was very underwhelming, I'd have preferred to see such a documentary on the 2013 edition in India where there was a (considerable) Indian SF presence. AFAIK there was no SF presence in the 2014 edition (from either side).
> 
> And while we are dreaming they they should do a documentary on the annual joint US-Indian SF exercise Vajra Prahar, none of them since 2011 have been publicised in anyway shape or form- not a single picture or video!!



Yes the clip they showed had no SF.Moreover it is DC India which is doing this so i am happy we will be atleast getting to see something new here.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yes the clip they showed had no SF.Moreover it is DC India which is doing this so i am happy we will be atleast getting to see something new here.


Any link to the trailer bro?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Any link to the trailer bro?


Negative


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## Abingdonboy

NSG-run counter IED seminar for all Indian police forces.

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> Any link to the trailer bro?

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## ni8mare




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## Abingdonboy

PM's motorcade Independence day 2013:

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## DIRECT ACTION

marcos....












Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 186684
> View attachment 186679
> View attachment 186680
> View attachment 186681
> View attachment 186682
> View attachment 186683
> View attachment 186685
> View attachment 186686
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS












@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Abingdonboy.. con you guys identity those insignias??
.
.
.
.
.
.








is that a COMBAT FAST HELMET with rail system and holders for accessories???

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> marcos....
> 
> View attachment 193061
> 
> View attachment 193062
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 193068
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Abingdonboy.. con you guys identity those insignias??
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> View attachment 193071
> 
> View attachment 193069
> 
> is that a COMBAT FAST HELMET with rail system and holders for accessories???



I dont know about the badges as they are not from the Indian Army.

Regarding the pic it is a 2007 pic and this is not a FAST helmet.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont know about the badges as they are not from the Indian Army.
> 
> Regarding the pic it is a 2007 pic and this is not a FAST helmet.



if not FASt helmet then what kind of helmet is that??


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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Abingdonboy.. con you guys identity those insignias??


Definitely not Indian or US army badges, I'll have to look into it.



DIRECT ACTION said:


> is that a COMBAT FAST HELMET with rail system and holders for accessories???


Every time I look at this picture I wonder what helmet that is, I am certain it isn't a FAST helmet given this photo is pretty old (7/8+ years).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> if not FASt helmet then what kind of helmet is that??


The resolution is too bad to make any guesses.


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## DIRECT ACTION

*TROPEX205*

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont know about the badges as they are not from the Indian Army.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> View attachment 193505


These are not Indian Army badges my friend.He must have earned it in his deputation with foreign Armies.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> These are not Indian Army badges my friend.He must have earned it in his deputation with foreign Armies.







that one in the right side is US army combat jump badge

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## DIRECT ACTION

Exercise GARUDA SHAKTI-III : India - Indonesia Joint special forces Exercise, Vairengte, Mizoram

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## Abingdonboy

Any ideas what the operator on the right is carrying, the one on th left looks to have a SiG-552 but the one on the right doesn't look like a Tavor 

edit, it's a Negev with the butt stock folded.

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## DIRECT ACTION

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy





Indian Army PARAs, NSG & US Army Green Berets with US Ambassador to India Richard Verma & US Defense Attaché Captain[SEAL] Timothy Maricle of the US Navy, at Aero India 2015.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

> *A check with the Ministry of Defence revealed that India's special forces do exercise with the US Delta Force but it is never advertised or talked about.*



How the Government Was Punked. An Expose that Really Wasn't.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> How the Government Was Punked. An Expose that Really Wasn't.


Such exercises are not rare specially with US and Israel SFs but are always kept a secret.

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## Koovie

DIRECT ACTION said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Army PARAs, NSG & US Army Green Berets with US Ambassador to India Richard Verma & US Defense Attaché Captain[SEAL] Timothy Maricle of the US Navy, at Aero India 2015.



Awesome pic mate !

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## DIRECT ACTION

Exercise GARUDA SHAKTI- III : India - Indonesia Joint Exercise







Abingdonboy said:


> How the Government Was Punked. An Expose that Really Wasn't.



thanks for that info bro,



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Such exercises are not rare specially with US and Israel SFs but are always kept a secret.


is that why joint excercise "vajraa prahar" is conducting secretly??


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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


>


Not convinced this is a joint SF exercise, the last Indonesian-Indian Shakti exercise was held between infantry units not SF and other than that one pic of a Indian SF operator there's nothing to indicate these guys are SFs, their kit doesn't look like it and where are the Tavors? The SF haven't used INSAS for years.


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## DIRECT ACTION

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=330199620510007







Abingdonboy said:


> Not convinced this is a joint SF exercise, the last Indonesian-Indian Shakti exercise was held between infantry units not SF and other than that one pic of a Indian SF operator there's nothing to indicate these guys are SFs, their kit doesn't look like it and where are the Tavors? The SF haven't used INSAS for years.


may be that excercise include both SF and infantry soldiers. just like yudh abhyass

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> is that why joint excercise "vajraa prahar" is conducting secretly??



I am talking about other top secret exercises which do not get reported because one group or the other will start protesting.



Abingdonboy said:


> Not convinced this is a joint SF exercise, the last Indonesian-Indian Shakti exercise was held between infantry units not SF and other than that one pic of a Indian SF operator there's nothing to indicate these guys are SFs, their kit doesn't look like it and where are the Tavors? The SF haven't used INSAS for years.



The red berets of Indonesian Army are SF.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The red berets of Indonesian Army are SF.


I'm talking about the other pics bro, they don't look like Indian SF at all.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm talking about the other pics bro, they don't look like Indian SF at all.


Yeah i know but i am saying that Indoneasia sent its SF.

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## kurup

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/568225753961082880

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> The left one is C-TAR bro and right one is Negev. But at first instance they both look diff.


Yes I see it now, the CTAR looked like a SIG at first glance because of the angle.

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## DIRECT ACTION



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## DIRECT ACTION

at aero india 2015

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## DIRECT ACTION

Garud commandos...




















OneIndia Special: IAF Garuds impress visitors with their mean machines and killer looks - Oneindia

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## Unknowncommando

DIRECT ACTION said:


> Garud commandos...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OneIndia Special: IAF Garuds impress visitors with their mean machines and killer looks - Oneindia


very cool pics.they look well equiped and deadly.take a look at the camo.that digi camo doesnt look like JUNGLE MARPAT to me.looks some kind of new multi digi camo. @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie 
@hkdas

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## DIRECT ACTION

Unknowncommando said:


> very cool pics.they look well equiped and deadly.take a look at the camo.that digi camo doesnt look like JUNGLE MARPAT to me.looks some kind of new multi digi camo. @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie
> @hkdas


air force SF looks better equipped than SFs of navy and army.

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## bloo

DIRECT ACTION said:


> Garud commandos...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OneIndia Special: IAF Garuds impress visitors with their mean machines and killer looks - Oneindia



Awesome pics indeed.


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## Koovie

DIRECT ACTION said:


> air force SF looks better equipped than SFs of navy and army.



Still havent seen Garuds with proper helmets so far.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> air force SF looks better equipped than SFs of navy and army.



I dont agree.

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## Abingdonboy

From Aero India:






(notice the telescopic scope on the right- makes a lot of sense, always wondered why the PARA (SF) hadn't been spotted with such scopes on their Tavors)

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## kurup

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/569054599702716416

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/569054599702716416


They need something a LOT better than these tired looking, un armoured and underpowered Gypsys.

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## DIRECT ACTION

Koovie said:


> Still havent seen Garuds with proper helmets so far.


yes.. hope they will brought some... but i never saw any pics of garuds using helmets.



Abingdonboy said:


> They need something a LOT better than these tired looking, un armoured and underpowered Gypsys.



they uese that as a strike vechicle,,, and generally SF don't use armored vehicles. Gypsys are very common in indian military.. para SF also use it.


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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> they uese that as a strike vechicle,,, and generally SF don't use armored vehicles. Gypsys are very common in indian military.. para SF also use it.


It needs to be replaced (and is being) by the ENTIRE Indian military including the SFs, this is just taking a lot longer than envisaged. Just because it is a strike vehicles doesn't mean it can't be armoured, it can still be open top and have armoured protection. The Gypsy in the role it is currently being used in is totally unacceptable.

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> air force SF looks better equipped than SFs of navy and army.


Not really, the only area they seem to be tangibly ahead is in posing for cameras:








They are the youngest SF with little actual combat experience (as a unit) and it shows.

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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> Not really, the only area they seem to be tangibly ahead is in posing for cameras:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are the youngest SF with little actual combat experience (as a unit) and it shows.



 For the SF ofcourse

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## Koovie

noksss said:


> For the SF ofcourse


And I thought you meant the big one on the right....


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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> For the SF ofcourse


Any _true_ SF operator will shy away from the camera, the general adage used for SFs around the world is "silent professionals" and the PARA (SF) have said (which the Garuds alluded to) that they like to let their work speak for themselves and they don't like to be in the public eye. 

This is what being SF is all about, not posing for selfies

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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> Any _true_ SF operator will shy away from the camera, the general adage used for SFs around the world is "silent professionals" and the PARA (SF) have said (which the Garuds alluded to) that they like to let their work speak for themselves and they don't like to be in the public eye.
> 
> This is what being SF is all about, not posing for selfies



garuds are not a secret unit. they are like indian air force's pararescue. they don't need to cover their face. that unit deployed in aero india is the base protection unit of garuds. gauds don't operates in undercover or they don't need to fight an insurgency like marcos, para sf or NSG doing. their is noting secret in garuds peacetime operation except their trainnig and equipments.

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> garuds are not a secret unit. they are like indian air force's pararescue. they don't need to cover their face. that unit deployed in aero india is the base protection unit of garuds. gauds don't operates in undercover or they don't need to fight an insurgency like marcos, para sf or NSG doing. their is noting secret in garuds peacetime operation except their trainnig and equipments.


I'm not saying they should be covering their faces (although some will do in other situations depending on where they are deployed) but they shouldn't be smiling and posing for pictures with civilians either. 

They are on duty and aren't there to interact with the public, forget about how unprofessional it looks it is indicative of their less disciplined/combat honed nature. Look at the PARA(SF) and MARCOs, whenever you see them in public (on duty) they are serious and are projecting "don't f*ck with me". As a SF unit the Garuds should be doing the same.

It just seems to me the lack of combat exposure has made this force a little "soft". That is not to say they aren't a top-notch force and will perform when they need to.

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## Abingdonboy

These cool dudes are trained to kill - The Times of India

"cool dudes" what a stupid title

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> These cool dudes are trained to kill - The Times of India
> 
> "cool dudes" what a stupid title


Indian media..

Probably the best defence/war correspondent is Wajahat S Khan... His ste of writing is quiet impressive... Covers WOT mostly.



Abingdonboy said:


> These cool dudes are trained to kill - The Times of India
> 
> "cool dudes" what a stupid title



Probably the best defence journalist in SA is Wajahat S Khan.

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Probably the best defence/war correspondent is Wajahat S Khan... His ste of writing is quiet impressive...


That guy was awesome, always came across very articulate and informed, I quite liked his interaction with (then) Indian COAS Bikram Singh, even though he was raising a thorny issue he did so with a lot of grace and in a respectful manner. 

I have a lot of time for that guy, although I hear his defence specials were cancelled for some reason.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> That guy was awesome, always came across very articulate and informed, I quite liked his interaction with (then) Indian COAS Bikram Singh, even though he was raising a thorny issue he did so with a lot of grace and in a respectful manner.
> 
> I have a lot of time for that guy, although I hear his defence specials were cancelled for some reason.



Yeah back in mid 2000s.. "We are Soldiers"... It ended abruptly ... Some rumours say some "higher up" didn't like the idea.. But that was quiet a show.

Check these articles of his:


The ghosts and gains of North Waziristan - thenews.com.pk

Zarb-e-Azb: Gear up for the ‘forever war’ - thenews.com.pk



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/382496561147949056

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## Abingdonboy

Garuds, the Unsung Heroes -The New Indian Express


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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> These cool dudes are trained to kill - The Times of India

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Instead of focusing on their training and their experience our reporters are covering how 'cool' these guys are.

SF has nothing to do with being cool.Your dressing doesnt matter.

Inspite of being cool and attractive these guys would be no match for SF from Philippines,Indonesia or the Vietnam in the jungles.

I say this because partiality and favouring is something which i never learnt in my life.

Garuds have a long long way to go to be a true SF.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## IndoUS

Would it kill them to introduce a standard camo.

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## bloo

FAST helmet


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## DESERT FIGHTER

bloo said:


> FAST helmet


That's not a FAST helmet ..

P.S : why a different camo? I don't think indian mil even uses woodland..


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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *That's not a FAST helmet* ..
> 
> P.S : why a different camo? I don't think indian mil even uses woodland..



What is it then,it certainly looks like one!!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Omega007 said:


> What is it then,it certainly looks like one!!



It's not a FAST helmet but of a siniliar style .. P.S : is that pic from a joint ex with foriegn forces? or does indian mil use Woodland ? (I do know abt the mismatched camos in use but still woodland is an entire different thing).

Here is what a "FAST" is like:





In use with SSG also.

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## acetophenol

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Instead of focusing on their training and their experience our reporters are covering how 'cool' these guys are.
> 
> SF has nothing to do with being cool.Your dressing doesnt matter.
> 
> Inspite of being cool and attractive these guys would be no match for SF from Philippines,Indonesia or the Vietnam in the jungles.
> 
> I say this because partiality and favouring is something which i never learnt in my life.
> 
> Garuds have a long long way to go to be a true SF.


How do you do know dude?


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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Instead of focusing on their training and their experience our reporters are covering how 'cool' these guys are.
> 
> SF has nothing to do with being cool.Your dressing doesnt matter.
> 
> Inspite of being cool and attractive* these guys would be no match for SF from Philippines,Indonesia or the Vietnam in the jungles.*
> 
> I say this because partiality and favouring is something which i never learnt in my life.
> 
> Garuds have a long long way to go to be a true SF.



Forget about them,just pit these so called Garuds against CRPF COBRAs in the jungles of Chattisgarh and see what happens.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Omega007 said:


> Forget about them,just pit these so called Saruds against CRPF COBRAs in the jungles of Chattisgarh and see what happens.



With time and interaction & exposure with foriegn forces they will mature .. 

Same route we are using for the newly raised LCB's ( Light Commando Battalion's) exposing them to foriegn forces .. Sending them to Jordan,ex with US,Arabs,Turks etc..

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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> With time and interaction & exposure with foriegn forces they will mature ..
> 
> Same route we are using for the newly raised LCB's ( Light Commando Battalion's) exposing them to foriegn forces .. Sending them to Jordan,ex with US,Arabs,Turks etc..



Of course,but I was talking about the present situation.Actually I'm just pissed off about our retarded media and their stupid choice of words and way of reporting things about military.

By the way,there is not much the Arabs could teach you guys about modern warfare.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Omega007 said:


> Of course,but I was talking about the present situation.Actually I'm just pissed off about our retarded media and their stupid choice of words and way of reporting things about military.
> 
> By the way,there is not much the Arabs could teach you guys about modern warfare.



I meant to multi national ex held at King Abdullah Special Operations Training centre in Jordan. Off course what could they teach us ? When we are sending our forces to "teach" them.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

acetophenol said:


> How do you do know dude?



Dude,i know this because Garuds do not have a amphibious and a EOD capability.

No experience of combat..so does it take a genius to guess they are not there yet or am i fcking awesome?

And Indoneasia,Philippines and Malayasia have a very well trained Army.



Omega007 said:


> Forget about them,just pit these so called Saruds against CRPF COBRAs in the jungles of Chattisgarh and see what happens.



I dont see a SF getting mature with no action.Cobra despite not being a SF is seeing more action at the end of the day.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Dude,i know this because _*Garuds do not have a amphibious*_ and a EOD capability.
> 
> .



Those who successfully clear the probation phase (which are a very few in number) move on to undergo further training in the tactical module, paratrooping,* combat swimming and driving. 
OneIndia Special: IAF Garuds impress visitors with their mean machines and killer looks - Oneindia*



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It's not a FAST helmet but of a siniliar style .. P.S : is that pic from a joint ex with foriegn forces? or does indian mil use Woodland ? (I do know abt the mismatched camos in use but still woodland is an entire different thing).
> 
> Here is what a "FAST" is like:
> View attachment 195306
> 
> 
> In use with SSG also.



that is a FAST helmet. only thing missing in there is that rail systems and the NVG holder. 
that is not an excercise, it is taken during an operation in J&k

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## Abingdonboy

@DIRECT ACTION yes, there was a small SF-SF engagement (no pictures released) but the majority of the exercise was infantry-infantry:
_
Indian Army was represented by troops from an Indian Infantry Battalion and Special Forces unit while personnel from 432 Battalion Kostrad Infantry (Airborne) and Gp I &Gp II of the Special Forces represented the Indonesian contingent._
_India-Indonesia joint military exercise concludes : 22nd feb15 ~ E-Pao! Headlines_


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The camo the Garuds are wearing/adopting isn't the USMC's woodland MARPAT but something different:










No idea of the origin of this camo and would like to know more but personally I think it looks GREAT! If this was the new camo adopted under F-INSAS (or whatever the new name is for this program) I would be most pleased.






+ Slowly but surely the NSG's VIP duties are being reduced, the day is not far now when the SRG can be all but disbanded and the majority of the budget go to the SAG guys. 

NSG guards for Lalu Prasad Yadav, Raman Singh to be withdrawn - The Economic Times

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## Omega007

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont see a SF getting mature with no action.Cobra despite not being a SF is seeing more action at the end of the day.



My point exactly.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont see a SF getting mature with no action.Cobra despite not being a SF is seeing more action at the end of the day.


Indeed, they need to cut their teeth in the thick of it, flying as force protection assets in Naxal infested areas is something but it's not nearly enough. Until the force has really built up a core of experience it is always going to be seen as an outsider, a junior, the "playboys" of the Indian SF community. This is why I am hoping the Indian SOCOM will see a lot more joint SF missions and a pooling of expertise and experience.

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## Abingdonboy

Such posers:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> Those who successfully clear the probation phase (which are a very few in number) move on to undergo further training in the tactical module, paratrooping,* combat swimming and driving.
> OneIndia Special: IAF Garuds impress visitors with their mean machines and killer looks - Oneindia*
> 
> k



I will believe it the day i see them with a combat divers badge...I dont easily trust the Indian journalists.

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## DIRECT ACTION

*Green Berets float over Yelahanka*

BENGALURU: They appear like petals floating in the air. Minutes later, when one realizes what they are, almost every youth with the adrenaline rush wants to try it, at least once in life: Jump out from a flight, float in the air and descend on a parachute.
A team of US Army Special Airborne Forces -popularity known as Green Berets -along with India's Para Special Forces and National Security Guards (NSG) have been performing High Altitude Low Opening (HELO) jump from an altitude of 7,000 feet above ground level -that's higher than the Mullayyanagiri (6,330 ft), highest peak in Karnataka -at the Aero India. 

"Once you jump out of the aircraft, for the first 40 seconds, you will be freefalling at a speed of 120mileshr. That is the best part . By the time we deploy our parachutes, we would have dropped 1,000 feet," said Captain Patrick Hyde. 

"Once parachutes are opened, it takes hardly 5 minutes for us to reach the ground," explained Captain Hyde, who leads the team Operations Detachment Alpha, of First Battalion, First Special Forces Air borne. "We can jump from 25,000 feet above sea level," he added. 

Bengaluru looks magical from the sky says Sgt Maj Andrew Collins."Indian Special Forces men told us that when you jump in Agra, where Indian Forces train, you could see the Taj Mahal. I'm looking forward to doing that someday ," he said.
*Green Berets float over Yelahanka - The Times of India*


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## Abingdonboy

Can't deny they look great and have nice kit:







The bright blue Gypsy is letting them down though

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## DIRECT ACTION

Abingdonboy said:


> Can't deny they look great and have nice kit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bright blue Gypsy is letting them down though



yes bro. they look better equipped than any other force.. but we don't know about the equipment of SF in army and navy. being an airshow AF will deploy them with best available equipment.


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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> yes bro. they look better equipped than any other force.. but we don't know about the equipment of SF in army and navy. being an airshow AF will deploy them with best available equipment.


The MARCOs and PARA (SF) have very similar equipment and it's not the case these guys would be better equipped purely for this one event- they will have their standard issue equipment but given this is non-combat posting their equipment will be in good order (clean and such) unlike if you were to see them in a combat posting (JK or elsewhere) like when you see the PARA (SF).

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## bloo

Whatever happened to the LSV deal?
















OR the LAmV





Ashok Leyland & Colt





Renault LAmV





TATA Light Armored AntiTerror Vehicle

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## tsarbomba

The A&L Colt looks badazz! Does it have a V shaped hull?(Edit: I meant the LamV)



Abingdonboy said:


> From Aero India:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (notice the telescopic scope on the right- makes a lot of sense, always wondered why the PARA (SF) hadn't been spotted with such scopes on their Tavors)


Is the s-tar 21 used by PARA (SF) too? Never seen the bipod equipped longer barrel tavor with the paras.


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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> Whatever happened to the LSV deal?


This is meant for a replacement of the IA's Gypsy fleet and the IA is said to have begun this process again only recently.




bloo said:


> OR the LAmV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashok Leyland & Colt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Renault LAmV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TATA Light Armored AntiTerror Vehicle



From what I hear the ITBP have bought the TATA LAMV, hopefully the IA will follow for their units deployed in JK and the NE.



For the SFs they have their own separate LSV (Light Strike Vehicle) procurement but God knows what is going on with that, it was initiated a long time ago.

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## Abingdonboy

tsarbomba said:


> Is the s-tar 21 used by PARA (SF) too? Never seen the bipod equipped longer barrel tavor with the paras.


Yes the PARA(SF) have the S-TAR with the bipod and full length barrel but to date I've not seen them with such a telescopic sight, only the standard MARS.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Zarvan

This is Pakistani SSW it was established around 10 years ago and quite heavily trained and equipped.

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## tsarbomba

Why are you posting pictures unrelated to "Indian Special Forces?" After seeing our equipment it seems you got a bit of Stockolm syndrome.


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## Gessler

tsarbomba said:


> Why are you posting pictures unrelated to "Indian Special Forces?" After seeing our equipment it seems you got a bit of Stockolm syndrome.



Is that some sort of complex? Because he has one.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Zarvan said:


> This is Pakistani SSW it was established around 10 years ago and quite heavily trained and equipped.



Don't post these pics (OLDDDD stuff) here .. this thread is about indian special forces not SSW.

And it wasn't established. "10 years ago".

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## DIRECT ACTION



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


>



Someone is following ADGPI Facebook page.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Someone is following ADGPI Facebook page.



not someone.. 2,357,371 people following that page....

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## Water Car Engineer

DIRECT ACTION said:


>




Dhruv is being put through its paces.

Several different ops it performs and several variants of this platform.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*Garud Commando Force **in Aero Indian 2015*

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## Abingdonboy

Bucephalus said:


> It seems that only GARUDS have a dedicated MG except PKM used by Para SF


Both MARCOs and Garuds use the Negev MG, the PARA (SF) is in the process of acquiring a new MG to replace their PKMs.

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## Abingdonboy

Bucephalus said:


> I heard DRDO also developing a 7.62 MG for Armed forces


SFs have a free choice of weaponry and go abroad most of the time for their kit so irrelevant.

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## noksss



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## Abingdonboy

Bucephalus said:


> So which MG should they choose in your view ...i personally like Negev and pecheneg


They might as well go for the Negev considering the other two SFs operate it, no sense in going for something else just for the sake of it.

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## Gessler

Saurav Jha recently stated that OFB is now making a new LMG, probably a future replacement for the
INSAS-LMG. I wonder when that could be ready - by 2020 I hope.


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## DIRECT ACTION

Indian Air Force Garud Commando with IMI Negev LMG,posted in Chattisgarh.The IAF has also deployed Mi-17 transport helicopters in Naxal affected areas.

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## DIRECT ACTION

Indian Air Force Garud commando in Naliya,Gujarat.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Anyone got a link to Discovery Channels Yudh Abhyas documentary?

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## Abingdonboy

PM at Aero India 2015:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING GUNFIGHT IN TRAL,PULWAMA DISTRICT
SEE THE TAVORS WITH MEPRO MORS,ON RYT AK WITH MARS RED DOT SIGHT AND IN BACKGROUND NEGEV MG LYING ON THE ROAD,AND TYPICAL BLACK KEVLAR HELMETS OF MARCOS.

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## DIRECT ACTION

Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING GUNFIGHT IN TRAL,PULWAMA DISTRICT
> SEE THE TAVORS WITH MEPRO MORS,ON RYT AK WITH RED DOT SIGHT AND IN BACKGROUND NEGEV MG LYING ON THE ROAD,AND TYPICAL BLACK KEVLAR HELMETS OF MARCOS.




nice observation skill bro. can you post the source??
i'm confused with that cammo.. the helmet is used by marcos..

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING GUNFIGHT IN TRAL,PULWAMA DISTRICT
> SEE THE TAVORS WITH MEPRO MORS,ON RYT AK WITH RED DOT SIGHT AND IN BACKGROUND NEGEV MG LYING ON THE ROAD,AND TYPICAL BLACK KEVLAR HELMETS OF MARCOS.


Nice find, definitely MARCOs. I wonder why that operator has opted for the AK when he could have gone for the Tavor (would be my first choice)?

+ that lead operator looks to be wearing a new generation plate carrier, haven't seen that before.... 


@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## Bornubus

Why Our SF don't carry sidearm ....during the encounters


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## kurup

Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS DURING GUNFIGHT IN TRAL,PULWAMA DISTRICT
> SEE THE TAVORS WITH MEPRO MORS,ON RYT AK WITH RED DOT SIGHT AND IN BACKGROUND NEGEV MG LYING ON THE ROAD,AND TYPICAL BLACK KEVLAR HELMETS OF MARCOS.



Can't see the image ...... Can you upload it again ??


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## DIRECT ACTION

Bornubus said:


> Why Our SF don't carry sidearm ....during the encounters
















kurup said:


> Can't see the image ...... Can you upload it again ??

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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice find, definitely MARCOs. I wonder why that operator has opted for the AK when he could have gone for the Tavor (would be my first choice)?
> 
> + that lead operator looks to be wearing a new generation plate carrier, haven't seen that before....
> 
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



And they've got MARPAT pants.

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## kurup

DIRECT ACTION said:


>



Still can't see them ..... must be some problem from my part .


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## DIRECT ACTION

kurup said:


> Still can't see them ..... must be some problem from my part .










Gessler said:


> And they've got MARPAT pants.


yes.... it is very nice that marcos uses that.. MARPAT is better than UCP.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice find, definitely MARCOs. I wonder why that operator has opted for the AK when he could have gone for the Tavor (would be my first choice)?
> 
> + that lead operator looks to be wearing a new generation plate carrier, haven't seen that before....
> 
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



What sort of a BPJ is that?They seem to be Marcos.

Their(Marcos) body language seems very professional like Para SF.

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## Abingdonboy

Bornubus said:


> Why Our SF don't carry sidearm ....during the encounters


@DIRECT ACTION has pointed out they do but one should also note that just because it isn't obvious (i.e. they aren't using thigh holsters) they may still be carrying them i.e. on their chest.



DIRECT ACTION said:


> yes.... it is very nice that marcos uses that.. MARPAT is better than UCP.


UCP is good for the naval environment so obviously useful to them.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What sort of a BPJ is that?They seem to be Marcos.


It looks like a new generation plate carrier to me. And they are 100% MARCOs, no doubt about it.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *What sort of a BPJ is that?*They seem to be Marcos.
> 
> Their(Marcos) body language seems very professional like Para SF.










Abingdonboy said:


> @DIRECT ACTION has pointed out they do but one should also note that just because it isn't obvious (i.e. they aren't using thigh holsters) they may still be carrying them i.e. on their chest.
> 
> 
> UCP is good for the naval environment so obviously useful to them.
> 
> 
> It looks like a new generation plate carrier to me. And they are 100% MARCOs, no doubt about it.


UPC is not agood camo.. even SEALs rejected it. multicam is best.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @DIRECT ACTION has pointed out they do but one should also note that just because it isn't obvious (i.e. they aren't using thigh holsters) they may still be carrying them i.e. on their chest.
> 
> 
> UCP is good for the naval environment so obviously useful to them.
> 
> 
> It looks like a new generation plate carrier to me. And they are 100% MARCOs, no doubt about it.


BPJ is inspired by US BPJs.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> BPJ is inspired by US BPJs.


Instead of being a conventional BPJ, these days you get what is called "plate carriers" which carry ceramic/armoured plates and also have webbing and MOLLE attachments, it is like combining webbing and BPJs. If you see right now, in COIN environments, the RR and SF wear a chest webbing vest over BPJs creating a far from ideal solution:


















but this plate carrier addresses the issue entirely. 









The IA do seem to be adopting a new generation of plate carrier for the RR:

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## Water Car Engineer



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Instead of being a conventional BPJ, these days you get what is called "plate carriers" which carry ceramic/armoured plates and also have webbing and MOLLE attachments, it is like combining webbing and BPJs. If you see right now, in COIN environments, the RR and SF wear a chest webbing vest over BPJs creating a far from ideal solution:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but this plate carrier addresses the issue entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IA do seem to be adopting a new generation of plate carrier for the RR:



I was saying it looks similar to this one.

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## Indian Patriot

Abingdonboy said:


> Instead of being a conventional BPJ, these days you get what is called "plate carriers" which carry ceramic/armoured plates and also have webbing and MOLLE attachments, it is like combining webbing and BPJs. If you see right now, in COIN environments, the RR and SF wear a chest webbing vest over BPJs creating a far from ideal solution:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but this plate carrier addresses the issue entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IA do seem to be adopting a new generation of plate carrier for the RR:



Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't all BPJ supposed to be plate carriers? A bullet proof jacket is bullet-proof because of the armor plate zipped inside them. It is not a metal vest or any other special fabric.


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## Zarvan



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## DeathInvader

We need This

Dragon Skin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dragon Skin Armor | Protecting The Lives of Those That Protect Us


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/25nov09drag987g3b.jpg


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## Gessler

Water Car Engineer said:


>



We need this camo for the Army...if not something even better.

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## tsarbomba

Are you kidding me with those photos of police commandos? This thread is titled "Indian Special Forces" for a reason. If you don't understand that, keep off from posting here.


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## Koovie

tsarbomba said:


> Are you kidding me with those photos of police commandos? This thread is titled "Indian Special Forces" for a reason. If you don't understand that, keep off from posting here.



They are old NSG pics not police

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## Unknowncommando

DIRECT ACTION said:


> nice observation skill bro. can you post the source??
> i'm confused with that cammo.. the helmet is used by marcos..
> View attachment 198388







NOTICE THE PATTERN ON HELMETS IN BOTH THE PICS IS SAME.
जम्मू-कश्मीर में एनकाउंटर, 2 हिजबुल आतंकी ढ़ेर | Two Hizbul Mujahideen militants killed in encounter in Jammu and Kashmir - Hindi Oneindia
here s the link

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## DIRECT ACTION

Unknowncommando said:


> NOTICE THE PATTERN ON HELMETS IN BOTH THE PICS IS SAME.
> जम्मू-कश्मीर में एनकाउंटर, 2 हिजबुल आतंकी ढ़ेर | Two Hizbul Mujahideen militants killed in encounter in Jammu and Kashmir - Hindi Oneindia
> here s the link


thanks bro,

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## Bornubus

*GARUD*

*




*





*Gujarat Police - Harley Davidson 









*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Bornubus

Kindly dont post police pics in this thread.

There is another thread for this.

And guys kindly ask yourself what is the meaning of Special Forces before posting pics in this thread..I do not wish to see Gujrat Police bikes in Special Forces thread.

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## Bornubus

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @Bornubus
> 
> Kindly dont post police pics in this thread.
> 
> There is another thread for this.
> 
> And guys kindly ask yourself what is the meaning of a Special Forces before posting pics in this thread..I do not wish to see Gujrat Police bikes in Special Forces thread.


I have even seen Agra police pics in this same thread...


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## me_itsme

Bornubus said:


> I have even seen Agra police pics in this same thread...



Atleast those are Agra SWAT. How does Police Harleys fit in a SOF thread?


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## Bornubus

me_itsme said:


> Atleast those are Agra SWAT. How does Police Harleys fit in a SOF thread?


i dint knew the separate pol. thread.


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## DIRECT ACTION

Bornubus said:


> i dint knew the separate pol. thread.


INDIAN Emergency Services (POLICE, AMBULANCE,FIRE) | Page 57

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## bloo

Whatever happened to this?

Support Rises for Unified Indian Spec Ops Command | Defense News | defensenews.com

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## DIRECT ACTION

First joint parachute drop by US Army, Indian Army Parachute Regiment & NSG
By SP's Special Correspondent
*Photo Credit : *Airman 1st Class Stephen G.Eigel


*March 09, 2015: *On February, right in the middle of Aero India 2015, the U.S. Army teamed up with the Indian Army's 2nd Parachute Regiment (Special Forces) for a parachute demonstration from a C-17 Globemaster III. The two armies have jumped together befoer during Yudh Abhyas exercises, but for the first time, National Security Guard paratroopers were part of the jump. The Indian commandos teamed up with paratroopers from the U.S. Army Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group for detailed joint briefings and the jump from a Pacific Air Forces C-17 Globemaster III over Yelahanka on a warm day.

The jump, while primarily for demonstration purposes at the show, was also a gesture of jointmanship between the special forces just weeks after U.S. President Barack Obama and Indian PM Narendra Modi renewed the strategic partnership and defence relationship between the two countries, an agreement that includes expanding the nature of joint military exercises and exchanges. The Indian Army and IAF are expected to participate in exercises in the U.S. this year.














































First joint parachute drop by US Army Indian Army Parachute Regiment and NSG - SP’s Exculsive

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## DIRECT ACTION

@Major Shaitan Singh, thanks for that link mate. 

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Abingdonboy 
guys, it is quite known than indian special forces have a close relations with SF of US and Israel.. do our SF have any such close cooperation with British SAS/SBS now??

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## Koovie

Great pics! 

Thats something that you dont see every day


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## DIRECT ACTION



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@DIRECT ACTION
Nope...we do not have many interactions with the UK.

IA SF have been to Israel for training and with the US we have joint exercises.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @DIRECT ACTION
> Nope...we do not have many interactions with the UK.
> 
> IA SF have been to Israel for training and with the US we have joint exercises.



IA SF have soldier exchange programs with US SF. but why don't we send our SF to Britain?after all every SF in india is modeled after British SF.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@DIRECT ACTION
We have very good relations with the US.They want a share of our defence spending so they wanna train with us and hence show off their weapons.With the UK the thing is different.Interaction between UK and Indian Army is not as much as between US and India.

I like the exchange between Israel and India.I have a lot of respect for Jews and their struggle and how the Israelis are fighting despite being surrounded and still not giving up.Para Commandos regularly visit Israel for training.I was told by my friend in the Army that 9th Para was the first one to be sent to Israel for training.

Similarly,Marcos have a great friendship with SEALs.My friend's dad was a Commodore in the Navy and he once told me a story of a Marcos saving a injured Seal's life and sailors from both Navy sharing a great friendship.

NSG similarly has a relationship with GSG9.They train with them regularly which doesnt get reported.

P.S-My favourite SF unit is German KSK..i hope we train with them someday.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @DIRECT ACTION
> We have very good relations with the US.They want a share of our defence spending so they wanna train with us and hence show off their weapons.With the UK the thing is different.Interaction between UK and Indian Army is not as much as between US and India.
> 
> I like the exchange between Israel and India.I have a lot of respect for Jews and their struggle and how the Israelis are fighting despite being surrounded and still not giving up.Para Commandos regularly visit Israel for training.I was told by my friend in the Army that 9th Para was the first one to be sent to Israel for training.
> 
> Similarly,Marcos have a great friendship with SEALs.My friend's dad was a Commodore in the Navy and he once told me a story of a Marcos saving a injured Seal's life and sailors from both Navy sharing a great friendship.
> 
> NSG similarly has a relationship with GSG9.They train with them regularly which doesnt get reported.
> 
> P.S-My favourite SF unit is German KSK..i hope we train with them someday.



do we have any training programs with Russian SF?? russian SF" Alpha" is one of the best SF in the world. i hope our Sf will do have some training programs with them. marcos have joint training program with US army delta. don't know if they have any such training program with ST6. 

what i don't understand is despite have very closer relationship with Nato countries why we don't have any SF training programs with them? russia being much closer to india and even share critical technology with india don't have any SF training programs with us. why is that?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> do we have any training programs with Russian SF?? russian SF" Alpha" is one of the best SF in the world. i hope our Sf will do have some training programs with them. marcos have joint training program with US army delta. don't know if they have any such training program with ST6.
> 
> what i don't understand is despite have very closer relationship with Nato countries why we don't have any SF training programs with them? russia being much closer to india and even share critical technology with india don't have any SF training programs with us. why is that?



I have the same question.Inspite of our relationship being so close and going to the extent of developing a 5th gen fighter we still havent had a joint SF exercise or maybe it didnt get reported.

In 2007 Para Commandos visited Russia and the Russian Army airborne division participated but Spetsnaz was not involved.Similarly recently also Russia did not send Spetsnaz to India.

Such things also depend on the efforts made by the govt.Like we did not have many AF to AF exercise with the Russians until the time Russians reaslised how closer the US and India have come through these exercises.

We have US,UK,Afghanistan,SL,BD,Mongolia,Poland,SA. Etc visit the CIJWS.

But i wont complain as the exercises with the western armies specially Israel for training and US for exposure has changed the tactis and weaponry of the Indian SFs.

A decade ago i used to call Indian SF the most under equippped but now i think Para Commandos SF are one of the better equipped SF in Asia and certainly the best equipped in South Asia.

The choice for weapons and the Techint which these guys get is superior to others.Humanint is also superior because every second month you get to read about a local commander getting killed in Kashmir.

They have changed their tactis and now operate in HIT teams of 6 specialist of various specialities from explosives to weapons expert.This is what i feel is influenced by how western SFs operate.Earlier we had platoon sized teams.

And you can bet that more is to follow with the 4 times hike in NSG budget and Army and Naval SF having a seperate budget and a free hand on buying.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have the same question.Inspite of our relationship being so close and going to the extent of developing a 5th gen fighter we still havent had a joint SF exercise or maybe it didnt get reported.
> 
> In 2007 Para Commandos visited Russia and the Russian Army airborne division participated but Spetsnaz was not involved.Similarly recently also Russia did not send Spetsnaz to India.
> 
> Such things also depends on the efforts made by the govt.Like we did not have many AF to AF exercise with the Russians until the time Russians reaslised how closer the US and India have come through these exercises.
> 
> We have US,UK,Afghanistan,SL,BD,Mongolia,Poland,SA. Etc visit the CIJWS.
> 
> But i wont complain as the exercises with the western armies specially Israel for training and US for exposure has changed the tactis and weaponry of the Indian SFs.
> 
> A decade ago i used to call Indian SF the most under equippped but now i think Para Commandos SF are one of the better equipped SF in Asia and certainly the best equipped in South Asia.
> 
> The choice for weapons and the Techint which these guys get is superior to others.Humanint is also superior because every second month you get to read about a local commander getting killed in Kashmir.
> 
> 
> They have changed their tactis and now operate in HIT teams of 6 specialist of various specialities from explosives to weapons expert.This is what i feel is influenced by how western SFs operate.Earlier we had platoon sized teams.
> 
> And you can bet that more is to follow with the 4 times hike in NSG budget and Army and Naval SF having a seperate budget and a free hand on buying.



the absence of Spetsnaz in 2007 indo russian excercise may be because of lack of knowledge on india's SF structure, as para SF is a part of parachute regiment(unique type of command structure). same case in navy too.... marcos is a part of "navel special operation and diving". in recent indo- russian navel excercise marcos were trained with Russian navel infantry!! it looks like US and Israel are the only two countries who understand india's SF command structure. even in youd abhyass if para SF participate in it then US army will send green berets too. never see such a coordination in any other excercise.


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## wiseone2

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @DIRECT ACTION
> We have very good relations with the US.They want a share of our defence spending so they wanna train with us and hence show off their weapons.With the UK the thing is different.Interaction between UK and Indian Army is not as much as between US and India.
> 
> I like the exchange between Israel and India.I have a lot of respect for Jews and their struggle and how the Israelis are fighting despite being surrounded and still not giving up.Para Commandos regularly visit Israel for training.I was told by my friend in the Army that 9th Para was the first one to be sent to Israel for training.
> 
> Similarly,Marcos have a great friendship with SEALs.My friend's dad was a Commodore in the Navy and he once told me a story of a Marcos saving a injured Seal's life and sailors from both Navy sharing a great friendship.
> 
> NSG similarly has a relationship with GSG9.They train with them regularly which doesnt get reported.
> 
> P.S-My favourite SF unit is German KSK..i hope we train with them someday.



Germans are pretty good


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## Koovie

Guessing from the IAF roundel in the backround, they must be Garuds: 
Can somebody ID the sniper rifle?

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Guessing from the IAF roundel in the backround, they must be Garuds:
> Can somebody ID the sniper rifle?


Yup those are Garuds alright, sporting their new camo and everything.

+t hat's the Galil bro.


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## bloo

Koovie said:


> Guessing from the IAF roundel in the backround, they must be Garuds:
> Can somebody ID the sniper rifle?



It probably is a Galil sniper rifle(Galatz).

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## Abingdonboy

SPG took two of their 7 Series for the PM's trip to Maurtiaus:




























They also took a CAT along with them:
























(first time I have seen the SPG's CAT on a foreign tour with a PM)

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## DIRECT ACTION

Koovie said:


> Guessing from the IAF roundel in the backround, they must be Garuds:
> Can somebody ID the sniper rifle?



@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro may be you won't agree with me but i will say garuds are better equipped than other two SF(i don't know about current inventory of marcos but garuds are surly better equipped than para SF)


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro may be you won't agree with me but i will say garuds are better equipped than other two SF(i don't know about current inventory of marcos but garuds are surly better equipped than para SF)


Their uniform and kit is but other equipment are not..Para SF has mini uavs and portable radars.

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## Abingdonboy

DIRECT ACTION said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro may be you won't agree with me but i will say garuds are better equipped than other two SF(i don't know about current inventory of marcos but garuds are surly better equipped than para SF)





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Their uniform and kit is but other equipment are not..Para SF has mini uavs and portable radars.


Practically speakig all three SOFs possess around the same level of kit ie pretty decent, not exactly world class but a huge improvement from a few years back. Now the SOFs need another major upgrade to bring them inl ine with leading SOF units of the Western world.

The major difference being the PARA (SF) are more often than not pictured on live operations looking more "rough" and the Garuds are more often than not pictured posing for cameras, at public exhibitions and interaxting with the public where, OF COURSE, their kit is pristine and they are properly "squared away". The few pictures you see of Garuds deployed in live ops (Op Greenhunt) they aren't looking as "Gucci".

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## Unknowncommando



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## Koovie

Well the Garuds are the biggest show offs among our SF.. thats for sure

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## bloo

Very show offey............


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Well the Garuds are the biggest show offs among our SF.. thats for sure





bloo said:


> Very show offey............



To be fair they are obviosuly there looking to recruit so "showing off" is the name of the game (in that context). One thing is for sure they aren't short of Gucci kit!

It's not like we can complain though, we would bemoan the situation had they still be equipped with INSAS and AKs, it's good to see they are well equipped!

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## bloo

Special forces operator with an M4.

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## DIRECT ACTION

Unknowncommando said:


>



hybrid sight on Tavor!!!...

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## anyrandom

Some days back Ex-COAS Bikram Singh visited our campus to give a speech and he had these two SPG/Secret Service styled two security details with earpiece and suits on. It's nice to see that we are modernizing quite fast in these matters.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

anyrandom said:


> Some days back Ex-COAS Bikram Singh visited our campus to give a speech and he had these two SPG/Secret Service styled two security details with earpiece and suits on. It's nice to see that we are modernizing quite fast in these matters.


Must be Para SF.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Must be Para SF.



may be privet security.. no chance to be Para SF. para SF don't provide security to ret. army chief.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> may be privet security.. no chance to be Para SF. para SF don't provide security to ret. army chief.



No private security for Army Chief.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No private security for Army Chief.


army don't provide any security to Ret. Army Chief..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> army don't provide any security to Ret. Army Chief..



from security to driver everything is provided.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> from security to driver everything is provided.



for a ret. army chief?? is army is responsible for the security of army chief even after retirement?? even Ex. PM won't have an SPG protection after 5 years. 

so you are saying that para SF is providing protection for all the 12 ex. chief of army??
K. V. Krishna Rao
Om Prakash Malhotra
Vishwa Nath Sharma
Sunith Francis Rodrigues
Shankar Roychowdhury
Ved Prakash Malik
Sundararajan Padmanabhan
Nirmal Chander Vij
Joginder Jaswant Singh
Deepak Kapoor
V. K. Singh
Bikram Singh 

so all of them are protected by para sf!!!???


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> for a ret. army chief?? is army is responsible for the security of army chief even after retirement?? even Ex. PM won't have an SPG protection after 5 years.
> 
> so you are saying that para SF is providing protection for all the 12 ex. chief of army??
> K. V. Krishna Rao
> Om Prakash Malhotra
> Vishwa Nath Sharma
> Sunith Francis Rodrigues
> Shankar Roychowdhury
> Ved Prakash Malik
> Sundararajan Padmanabhan
> Nirmal Chander Vij
> Joginder Jaswant Singh
> Deepak Kapoor
> V. K. Singh
> Bikram Singh
> 
> so all of them are protected by para sf!!!???


Based on threat perception.

Like all ex ministers are not provided SPG/NSG protection.Similarly for the Army.

All ex chiefs and Generals are given 'sahayaks',protection (para or otherwise) and drivers.

Anyone from a Army backgroud can confirm this.


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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> Some days back Ex-COAS Bikram Singh visited our campus to give a speech and he had these two SPG/Secret Service styled two security details with earpiece and suits on. It's nice to see that we are modernizing quite fast in these matters.





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Must be Para SF.





bloo said:


> Very show offey............



Won't be SPG or Para (SF), probably MPs. Para (SF) are for serving COAS and don't wear "civlian dress" but overt military uniforms, their similar arrangments are there for the CNS and ACM with their respective military police units- they don't use their service's SFs.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Won't be SPG or Para (SF), probably MPs. Para (SF) are for serving COAS and don't wear "civlian dress" but overt military uniforms, their similar arrangments are there for the CNS and ACM with their respective military police units- they don't use their service's SFs.


MP dont do BG job bro.

AFAIK Para SF BG do wear civil dress when on a visit to civil place with the COAS.

Para SF BG are provided to ex coas as long as they are not on terrorist hit list.

Like Gen. Brar and Gen. Jacob were given protection despite not being Chief because of the treat they had from the Sikh extremists for Op Blue star.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> SPG took two of their 7 Series for the PM's trip to Maurtiaus:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> They also took a CAT along with them:
> 
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> (first time I have seen the SPG's CAT on a foreign tour with a PM)


The SPG takes CAT where ever they feel the local security wont be enough.Like in the US they trusted SS.



DIRECT ACTION said:


> hybrid sight on Tavor!!!...


Nice observation..I was waiting for an Indian SF to use hybrid sights.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nice observation..I was waiting for an Indian SF to use hybrid sights.


there is a silencer with that tavor..1st time i'm seeing a hybrid sight and silencer with a tavor...

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The SPG takes CAT where ever they feel the local security wont be enough.Like in the US they trusted SS.


I'm aware of this, this is just the first time I have seen a SPG CAT in a foreign country.


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## bipi@342

Spg CAT in Mauritius

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## Abingdonboy

Special Protection Group with the PM in Mauritius:







SPG's Counter Assualt Team (CAT):

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


>



The handle of this car has a dent. 

I had come here to post a video of a brave Indian cobra officer

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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> The handle of this car has a dent.


Noticed that, the vehicle would belong to the Mauritian hosts.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Noticed that, the vehicle would belong to the Mauritian hosts.


Thats funny!
what were they thinking??? Or let me give 'em a benefit of doubt that this happened moments before the pic was clicked

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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> Thats funny!
> what were they thinking??? Or let me give 'em a benefit of doubt that this happened moments before the pic was clicked


Lol, yes give them the benefit of the doubt 

Mauritius is a small and relatively poor country so one can forgive a dented vehicle for a Counter Assualt Team.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *Minister announces increase of budget for weapons,ammo,clothing and gear 4 times to 325,000$ each.



So $325,000 will be spent on each operator for new equipment?


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## DIRECT ACTION

para SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

PARA SF called in Jammu encounter which is very close to where i grew up.

The place is home to various armoured and artillery brigades which would provide the deep penetration capability in the plains of Jammu and northern punjab incase of a war.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PARA SF called in Jammu encounter which is very close to where i grew up.
> 
> The place is home to various armoured and artillery brigades which would provide the deep penetration capability in the plains of Jammu and northern punjab incase of a war.



And as usual they did their job with perfection 2 terrorist killed in the operation

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> PARA SF called in Jammu encounter which is very close to where i grew up.
> 
> The place is home to various armoured and artillery brigades which would provide the deep penetration capability in the plains of Jammu and northern punjab incase of a war.


Any pics?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Any pics?








Credits @Bornubus

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## Bornubus

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Credits @Bornubus


I think terrorists were finished before Army/SF arrived


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bornubus said:


> I think terrorists were finished before Army/SF arrived


I cant confirm that..i just read Army PR spokesman's statement.


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## DIRECT ACTION

Our Commander-in-Chief, the President of India, Shri Pranab Mukherjee presenting the Kirti Chakra to Captain Jaidev of the 10th battalion(SF), Parachute Regiment during today's Defence Investiture Ceremony held at the Rashtrapati Bhavan.
The Kirti Chakra, the second highest peace time decoration, was given to the Captain, for taking on terrorists despite being grievously injured in an operation as part of the 10th Rashtriya Rifles in Pulwama district of Jammu and Kashmir. 

Read more about his heroic act. http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/documents/rd2015/CAPTJAIDEV.pdf





Major Mohit Sharma AC of the 1 PARA on patrol in the thick forests of the Kupwara district.

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## DIRECT ACTION

marcos in indian army's official Facebook pageP
@Abingdonboy can you identify that reconciles rifle ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> View attachment 205578
> 
> 
> marcos in indian army's official Facebook pageP
> @Abingdonboy can you identify that reconciles rifle ?


Are you talking about Shiphon?

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Are you talking about Shiphon?



yes,... thanks bro...
carl recoilless rifle or Shipon, which one is more effective??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> yes,... thanks bro...
> carl recoilless rifle or Shipon, which one is more effective??



Hmmm..Shipon is use and throw but lethal.Carl Gustav is like load---fire---assess--relaod--fire.carl gustav is a favourite weapon in RR and is used to end the operation.It has different types of ammo these days from smoke to taking out concrete blocks.

SF prefer Shipon coz its use and throw and they dont need to carry it back after operation behind enemy lines.Shipon has 2 types of round..anti armour and the other one to demolish concrete structures.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Hmmm..Shipon is use and throw but lethal.Carl Gustav is like load---fire---assess--relaod--fire.carl gustav is a favourite weapon in RR and is used to end the operation.It has different types of ammo these days from smoke to taking out concrete blocks.
> 
> SF prefer Shipon coz its use and throw and they dont need to carry it back after operation behind enemy lines.Shipon has 2 types of round..anti armour and the other one to demolish concrete structures.



wiki says that shipon is an advanced reusable multi-purpose shoulder-launched rocket system consisting of a launch tube and FCS module. 
B-300 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> wiki says that shipon is an advanced reusable multi-purpose shoulder-launched rocket system consisting of a launch tube and FCS module.
> B-300 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Ya bro,i know.I dont remember if someone told me or i read somewhere that it was not re-usable so i stuck with that.

Go with wiki.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya bro,i know.I dont remember if someone told me or i read somewhere that it was not re-usable so i stuck with that.
> 
> Go with wiki.



does shipon have different variants?? one for SF(use and throw) and other infantry(reusable)??

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> does shipon haerent variants?? one for SF(use and throw) and other infantry(reusable)??


This is the doubt i have..There are 3 variants B 300,SMAW and Shipon.All are re usable.My info must be wrong.

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## Bornubus

Is he PARA SF (old pic)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bornubus said:


> Is he PARA SF (old pic)
> View attachment 205753


For sure...only Para use PKM in the Army.

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## Bornubus

*PARA SF*

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## DIRECT ACTION

Bornubus said:


> *Afghan SF Training with IA *
> 
> View attachment 205754
> 
> 
> View attachment 205755
> 
> 
> *PARA SF*
> View attachment 205756



bro, they are not afghan SF. that pics you posted are from nahan. we don't train afghan SF in nahan. the last indo-afghan SF training was conducted in rajasthan with 10 para. 
i had seen that pics before, they are old pics..

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## Bornubus

DIRECT ACTION said:


> bro, they are not afghan SF. that pics you posted are from nahan. we don't train afghan SF in nahan. the last indo-afghan SF training was conducted in rajasthan with 10 para.
> i had seen that pics before, they are old pics..


I only ask coZ that instructor looks like SF.. Anyway i will edit that



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> For sure...only Para use PKM in the Army.


Then SF deserves something Better maybe Nagev -- BTW old army guys called this "peeca" rifle

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## DIRECT ACTION

Bornubus said:


> I only ask coZ that instructor looks like SF.. Anyway i will edit that



which instructor bro?? in the 2nd pics that is kanishka sharma. he is a civilian under contract.
watch this video bro, this is the same place shown in your pics.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bornubus said:


> I only ask coZ that instructor looks like SF.. Anyway i will edit that
> 
> 
> Then SF deserves something Better maybe Nagev -- BTW old army guys called this "peeca" rifle


Ya in army they call it Peeka.All the PKM in the Army are from terrorists.

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## K M Cariappa

I got a question....
What happens to the weapons that the army captures from the terrorists....
Does the army use them in the operations...??


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya in army they call it Peeka.All the PKM in the Army are from terrorists.



bro, are you sure on this??? AFAIK, PKM is manufactured by OFB.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> bro, are you sure on this??? AFAIK, PKM is manufactured by OFB.


 Really?..do you have a link for that?



K M Cariappa said:


> I got a question....
> What happens to the weapons that the army captures from the terrorists....
> Does the army use them in the operations...??


Depends on the condition and the type of weapon.Most of the AKs with the RR and SVDs are all captured.Some are not used like the RPK.


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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Really?..do you have a link for that?
> 
> 
> Depends on the condition and the type of weapon.Most of the AKs with the RR and SVDs are all captured.Some are not used like the RPK.



i only found wiki link, but i had read that somewhere,
Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> i only found wiki link, but i had read that somewhere,
> Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It would be great if we can mass produce it.Soldiers respect the PKM.

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## DIRECT ACTION

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> It would be great if we can mass produce it.Soldiers respect the PKM.



why don't they use Negev?? marcos and guards uses it. negev is more compact and lighter than bulky PkM.
.
.
. @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro, did marcos and guards get training from Nahan(IA SF training school)???

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> why don't they use Negev?? marcos and guards uses it. negev is more compact and lighter than bulky PkM.
> .
> .
> . @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro, did marcos and guards get training from Nahan(IA SF training school)???


Yeah,maybe they will get Negev soon.

Nahan is the headquater of the Army SF and is the primary training school for Army SF.I know that Garuds and Marcos have been to CIJWS buti have no idea about Nahan as it is a well built training school exclusively for the Army.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Koovie

Includes some footage from Garuds operating from a C130J

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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Includes some footage from Garuds operating from a C130J


That was cool! The IAF really knows how to make recruiting videos now!

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## K M Cariappa

Unknowncommando said:


>


Can you tell me more about this vehicle down in the black...
First time I am seeing such thing with IA... Otherwise you only get to see the dilapidated vehicle used in J&K....


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## DIRECT ACTION

K M Cariappa said:


> Can you tell me more about this vehicle down in the black...
> First time I am seeing such thing with IA... Otherwise you only get to see the dilapidated vehicle used in J&K....



i'm not sure it is casper or mahindra MPV... it looks more like caspir. 

Casspir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
or
Mahindra Mine Protected Vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Water Car Engineer

Koovie said:


> Includes some footage from Garuds operating from a C130J




That is certainly better than the 90s looking ads we're used to.

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## bloo




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## DIRECT ACTION



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


> i'm not sure it is casper or mahindra MPV... it looks more like caspir.
> 
> Casspir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> or
> Mahindra Mine Protected Vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Its a Casspir.

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## Mike_Brando

bloo said:


>


Mate,this is a picture of a UP Police special unit that was assigned to protect the Kumbh Mela in Allahabad last year.Hence,you should better post it in the Indian Police and Emergency Services thread.


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## DIRECT ACTION



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## DIRECT ACTION



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## DIRECT ACTION



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## DIRECT ACTION



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DIRECT ACTION said:


>



Text book Spetsnaz move.

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## Unknowncommando

SPG CAT AND DELHI POLICE COMMANDOS

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## hkdas



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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


>


@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR 


MPs on close protection duty as I have said they do do in the past


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Text book Spetsnaz move.



i don't like that instructor... he is more interested in taking photos than training those soldiers..



Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> 
> MPs on close protection duty as I have said they do do in the past


MP?? you mean this guy??


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> i don't like that instructor... he is more interested in taking photos that training those soldiers..
> 
> 
> MP?? you mean this guy??
> View attachment 207786


Yup, that's an MP.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> 
> MPs on close protection duty as I have said they do do in the past


That would be in the past.I have seen Para SF BG with Corps Commander holding uzi mgs.


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## Abingdonboy



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## hkdas

*India-Kyrgyzstan SF training Exercises*







Special operations forces from India and Kyrgyzstan have wrapped up joint military exercises near Bishkek, the first time Indian soldiers have carried out such drills in the country.

The exercises, Kanzhar 2015, involved about 100 soldiers overall, including Kyrgyzstan’s “Scorpions” special operations forces and 30 of their Indian colleagues. They covered “joint special operations to destroy illegal armed formations in mountainous terrain,” according to a Kyrgyzstan military spokesman. “There were also practical exercises and training including at night, and also exchanges of experience in military medicine, mountain, tactical and firearms training.”

As is de rigeur, Kyrgyzstan framed the event as an anti-terrorism exercise: “The provocative, insidious activities of international terrorist organizations, pursuing the goal of seizing government power, have recently become stronger,” said Kyrgyzstan’s deputy chief of the general staff, Zhanybek Kaparov, at a ceremony opening the exercise. “So for us, it’s very important to cooperate with the armed forces of India to fight together against extremism and terrorism.”

The Indian soldiers were reportedly specialists in high-altitude warfare, but nevertheless said they hoped to learn how Kyrgyzstan did things: “We know that Kyrgyzstani soldiers have great experience in conducting military activities in mountains and we hope to adopt that,” one Indian captain said. “In addition, we will study how to survive in the mountains, since that’s the fundamental difficulty in these conditions. We also would like to see what kind of equipment and weapons your soldiers use.”

According to one Kyrgyz participant, it sounded like it was the Indian soldiers who were doing most of the training, at least in the medical phase of the exercise: “First aid was needed for soldiers receiving gunshot wounds or burns. In addition, our soldiers imitated broken limbs or contusions. The Indians study how to provide the necessary first aid for these injuries, but in parallel our soldiers, learn, too. The foreign guests share their experience and practices, and say how things are done there.”

In 2011 the two countries announced a plan to boost military cooperation, including joint training and establishment of a high-altitude military research center. That same year India and Kyrgyzstan conducted joint exercises in India. Kanzhar 2015 took place March 10-25 in the Shamsi gorge just outside Bishkek. While the exercises were going on, a delegation of Indian diplomats also visited Bishkek and discussed expanding military cooperation.

India Carries Out First Military Exercises In Kyrgyzstan | idrw.org

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## Brahma Bull

MARCOS ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Brahma Bull said:


> MARCOS ?


Yup.


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## hkdas

Brahma Bull said:


> MARCOS ?


yes, but who give you this pics?? that place is kashmir..


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## Brahma Bull

hkdas said:


> yes, but who give you this pics?? that place is kashmir..


The FB page mentioned on the pic...They say it is wular lake,kashmir

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## hkdas

Brahma Bull said:


> The FB page mentioned on the pic...They say it is wular lake,kashmir



ok. do you know the admin of that page??


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## Brahma Bull

hkdas said:


> ok. do you know the admin of that page??


Unfortunately No

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## hkdas

Brahma Bull said:


> Unfortunately No



i think they have some contact in SF, both in army and navy. when i asked them they says 2 of their admins are ex-marcos and one is ex army SF officer.

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos from INS Sumitra at Aden Port during the evacuation of Indian citizens from Yemen..

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## hkdas

Major Mohit Sharma from 1 para sf
On 21 March 2009, he engaged in an encounter with terrorists in the Hafruda forest of the Kupwara sector of Jammu and Kashmir. He killed four terrorists and rescued two teammates in the process but sustained multiple gunshot wounds and finally succumbed to injuries. For this act, he was posthumously awarded the Ashoka Chakra, which is the highest peace time military decoration in India. He was awarded two gallantry decorations earlier in his career. The first was the Chief of Army Staff's commendation card for exemplary counter-terrorism duties during Operation Rakshak, which was followed by a Sena Medal for gallantry after a covert operation in 2005.

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> Marcos from INS Sumitra at Aden Port during the evacuation of Indian citizens from Yemen..



They've got ballistic helmets on...the vest seems interesting too.


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## hkdas

Gessler said:


> They've got ballistic helmets on...the vest seems interesting too.



but their small arms are pathetic... that AK makes me cry


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## Brahma Bull

hkdas said:


> but their small arms are pathetic... that AK makes me cry


AK 103 is good and packs a punch,isn't it ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR



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## hkdas

Brahma Bull said:


> AK 103 is good and packs a punch,isn't it ?



not good in accuracy, and it is not suitable for CQB.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


>


MARCOs, INS Sumitra's own force protection team and IAF officers in protective gear.

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## Brahma Bull

hkdas said:


> not good in accuracy, and it is not suitable for CQB.


They mix their weapons up i guess.Some use Tavors and some AK 103


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## hkdas

Brahma Bull said:


> They mix their weapons up i guess.Some use Tavors and some AK 103



there are only 500 tavor(?) with marcos. so they have to depend on AK-103...what makes me wonder is why don't they use FN-SCAR? SG already uses it.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> there are only 500 tavor(?) with marcos. so they have to depend on AK-103...what makes me wonder is why don't they use FN-SCAR? SG already uses it.


They have more than 500 now of course, 500 was simply the size of the first batch delivered to the unit.



hkdas said:


> there are only 500 tavor(?) with marcos. so they have to depend on AK-103...what makes me wonder is why don't they use FN-SCAR? SG already uses it.


+ the FN SCAR would be a decent replacement for their AKs as their 7.62mm chambered rifle.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> They have more than 500 now of course, 500 was simply the size of the first batch delivered to the unit.


may be, but not sure. 500 was the total tavor ordered in 2010.



Abingdonboy said:


> + the FN SCAR would be a decent replacement for their AKs as their 7.62mm chambered rifle.



yes, SCAR is a good weapon. it is used by SEALS too. SCAR is better than HK - 416.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> may be, but not sure. 500 was the total tavor ordered in 2010.


500 was the number of the first batch, more have subsequently been delivered don't worry about that. The Tavor is in use with other Navy units other than the MARCOs additionally but you've not heard news of that either. 


When the Punjab police are inducting the X-95 don't worry about the MARCOs


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> When the Punjab police are inducting the X-95 don't worry about the MARCOs



bro, do you know that mizoram police have more M4 rifles than our army SF!!! mumbai police get hybrid weapon sight before our SF have it. training center of 250 strong Andhra pradesh's anti-terror force "Octopus" is larger and more sophisticated(technologically advance) than our army Special forces training school in nahan.

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## Levina

Is this for real ? Is any one allowed to shoot videos here?


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## hkdas

levina said:


> Is this for real ? Is any one allowed to shoot videos here?



yes, it is real... and that is CISF, a central police force. not a military force to keep their training secret


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## Levina

hkdas said:


> yes, it is real... and that is CISF,* a central police force*. not a military force to keep their training secret


Does that make any difference?


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## hkdas

levina said:


> Does that make any difference?



a police training is open for taking videos, in military it is No NO.. especially in sf training centers. and the video you post is just an obstacle course. noting secret at all

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> there are only 500 tavor(?) with marcos. so they have to depend on AK-103...what makes me wonder is why don't they use FN-SCAR? SG already uses it.


Would a undercover SF operator carry Tavor or AK in Kashmir?..and this is why they are carrying AK otherwise everyone prefers the Tavor.



hkdas said:


> bro, do you know that mizoram police have more M4 rifles than our army SF!!! mumbai police get hybrid weapon sight before our SF have it. training center of 250 strong Andhra pradesh's anti-terror force "Octopus" is larger and more sophisticated(technologically advance) than our army Special forces training school in nahan.


Mizoram police has M4 and M16 thanks to the insurgents using them in large numbers.

Mumbai Police have a free hand on buying weapon and have raised a poorly trained force ie Force 1.I happened to see their CQB drill and i am happy we have NSG in Mumbai coz these guys have no idea what they are doing.I dont know what they learnt from the Israelis.Delhi SWAT does better CQB drillls and they got trained by NSG.

Lastly,the NSG has the most hi tech training module.IA SF relies on realistic drills in Nahan.I dont think Octopus infra would beat that.

Overall,SPG has the best infra hands down.

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> training center of 250 strong Andhra pradesh's anti-terror force "Octopus" is larger and more sophisticated(technologically advance) than our army Special forces training school in nahan


Nope, I don't buy this for a second, Nahan is an incredible school and advanced enough. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mizoram police has M4 and M16 thanks to the insurgents using them in large numbers.


Actually bro they have been buying their own brand spanking new M4s also. 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Mumbai Police have a free hand on buying weapon and have raised a poorly trained force ie Force 1.I


Maharashtra police raised Force One, maybe you witnessed the Mumbai Police's QRT members? AFAIK Force One are well trained but not amazingly equipped. 


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Delhi SWAT does better CQB drillls and they got trained by NSG.


A shame their gear is so pathetic. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Overall,SPG has the best infra hands down.



For the job they have they are the best equipped and trained force in India bar none. This is a direct result of not just their professionalism (every elite unit in India has that) but that they have the highest budget USD per man of any force in India - and it shows. Once the budgets for the other units increase we will see the fruits....

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> IA SF relies on realistic drills in Nahan.I dont think Octopus infra would beat that.



the QCB training(kill house) in nahan is stuck in 20th century. there is not aggressive driving training in nahan. there is no long range shooting ranges, there is no real time video recording on the training of SF to analysis their training. there is no urban warfare training center in nahan, there is no cutting edge equipment training in nahan..till 2013(i don;t know if they upgrade their gadgets after 2013) our army SF use the civilian version of NVG and laser pointers.



Abingdonboy said:


> Nope, I don't buy this for a second, Nahan is an incredible school and advanced enough


no bro, nahan is not that advance training school. that school is built in 1987 as a temporary location. army is in the process of accuring a 1500 acres of land as a permanent location.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> the QCB training(kill house) in nahan is stuck in 20th century. there is not aggressive driving training in nahan. there is no long range shooting ranges, there is no real time video recording on the training of SF to analysis their training. there is no urban warfare training center in nahan, there is no cutting edge equipment training in nahan..till 2013(i don;t know if they upgrade their gadgets after 2013)


This is all based on that NDTV documentary right? 

There is a hell of a lot they didn't show and I know for a fact just how advanced the army's SF training is these days.



hkdas said:


> civilian version of NVG


It is that there are equipment deficiencies with the operators but they should be addressed soon.



hkdas said:


> laser pointers.


Laser pointers? The Army SF use the Meprolight MOR (for M4s) and MARS RDS which have both visible and IR lasers and are amongst the most advanced sights on the market. They are hardly just "laser pointers". 


(they also use the AN/PEQ-15 visible laser and IR designators for their M4s without the MOR sight)



hkdas said:


> no bro, nahan is not that advance training school. that school is built in 1987 as a temporary location. army is in the process of accuring a 1500 acres of land as a permanent location.



Temporary or not this school has had to keep up with contemporary trends.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> This is all based on that NDTV documentary right?
> 
> There is a hell of a lot they didn't show and I know for a fact just how advanced the army's SF training is these days.



no, when i watch that documentary i though they were trying to kept the type of equipment as a secret, but a year later a SF soldier told me about the civilian version of equipment. 


Abingdonboy said:


> It is that there are equipment deficiencies with the operators but they should be addressed soon.


we are decades behind western SF. 


Abingdonboy said:


> Laser pointers? The Army SF use the Meprolight MOR (for M4s) and MARS RDS which have both visible and IR lasers and are amongst the most advanced sights on the market. They are hardly just "laser pointers".
> 
> 
> (they also use the AN/PEQ-15 visible laser and IR designators for their M4s without the MOR sight)



are you sure it is AN/PEQ-15?? AFAIK they use an/peq-2,


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> we are decades behind western SF.


True, I'd say that in terms of equipment the Indian SFs are at the level the top the Western SFs were in the late 90s/early 00s.



hkdas said:


> are you sure it is AN/PEQ-15?? AFAIK they use an/peq-2,



Yup.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> no, when i watch that documentary i though they were trying to kept the type of equipment as a secret, but a year later a SF soldier told me about the civilian version of equipment.
> 
> we are decades behind western SF.
> 
> 
> are you sure it is AN/PEQ-15?? AFAIK they use an/peq-2,


You are underestimating the training of Indian SF.I saw a video on youtube where US SF operator was praising the capabilities of Indian SF instructors.The drill and all are carefully designed and US SF instructors are regular to Nahan.

I have seen CQB simulators 8 years ago used by Para (non SF) so it will be a safe guess to assume that in 2015 the infra will be much better.

Which equipment does the western SF have which puts us decades behind??

Lastly,without disclosing much i would like to share that Nahan is not the primary SF school as on 2015.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Yup.








an/peq-2



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> You are underestimating the training of Indian SF.I saw a video on youtube where US SF operator was praising the capabilities of Indian SF instructors.The drill and all are carefully designed and US SF instructors are regular to Nahan.



its not on youtube bro, it was in an article in here http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have seen CQB simulators 8 years ago used by Para (non SF) so it will be a safe guess to assume that in 2015 the infra will be much better.



the Kill house in nahan is not advanced one.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> View attachment 211247
> 
> an/peq-2


I'm aware of that.

AN/PEQ-15 is in service my friend, don't worry about it


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Which equipment does the western SF have which puts us decades behind??


almost every equipment.. from BJ to NVGs, communication equipment to surveillance equipments. in every field india is behind western SF


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Lastly,without disclosing much i would like to share that Nahan is not the primary SF school as on 2015


are you talking about the new 1500 acre training facility??



Abingdonboy said:


> I'm aware of that.
> 
> AN/PEQ-15 is in service my friend, don't worry about it


bro, do you have any pics of it??



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Would a undercover SF operator carry Tavor or AK in Kashmir?..and this is why they are carrying AK otherwise everyone prefers the Tavor.











marcos with AKs in joint exercises and in combat deployments.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> almost every equipment.. from BJ to NVGs, communication equipment to surveillance equipments. in every field india is behind western SF
> 
> are you talking about the new 1500 acre training facility??
> 
> 
> bro, do you have any pics of it??
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 211252
> 
> View attachment 211253
> 
> marcos with AKs in joint exercises and in combat deployments.


Surveillance and reach or range is the only thing in which they are literally decades ahead.Rest of the things are not the best in our Army and that is what you get with a 40 billion dollar budget.

I dont know about you but 'special' operations are achieved by a motivated team of well trained operators under a leadership which shows that it has balls of steal.Having the best or second best NVG or laser designator are not too important.



hkdas said:


> View attachment 211247
> 
> an/peq-2
> 
> 
> 
> its not on youtube bro, it was in an article in here http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html
> 
> 
> the Kill house in nahan is not advanced one.


Nahan is a base for the SF in charge of Kashmir..nothing more.Why do we need to compare it with other schools??


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## me_itsme

hkdas said:


> View attachment 211247
> 
> an/peq-2


Can you post the full pic please?


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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Surveillance and reach or range is the only thing in which they are literally decades ahead.Rest of the things are not the best in our Army and that is what you get with a 40 billion dollar budget.
> 
> I dont know about you but 'special' operations are achieved by a motivated team of well trained operators under a leadership which shows that it has balls of steal.Having the best or second best NVG or laser designator are not too important.



technology have a greater role in winning the operations. high motivations and leadership are basic things need for SF. the technology and the tactics plays a grater roll. in every country the best available equipment are given to SF. because they need it more than any force. NVGs, laser designator, laser pointers, high end communication and navigation devices are force multiplier. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nahan is a base for the SF in charge of Kashmir..nothing more.Why do we need to compare it with other schools??


what do you mean by nahan is for soldiers in charge of kashmir?? every para commandos are trained in nahan, which includes 10th and 21 paras.



me_itsme said:


> Can you post the full pic please?



it is a screen shot from this documentry
वतन के रखवाले : सेना के स्पेशल फोर्स के कमांडो

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> technology have a greater role in winning the operations. high motivations and leadership are basic things need for SF. the technology and the tactics plays a grater roll. in every country the best available equipment are given to SF. because they need it more than any force. NVGs, laser designator, laser pointers, high end communication and navigation devices are force multiplier.
> 
> 
> what do you mean by nahan is for soldiers in charge of kashmir?? every para commandos are trained in nahan, which includes 10th and 21 paras.
> 
> 
> 
> it is a screen shot from this documentry
> वतन के रखवाले : सेना के स्पेशल फोर्स के कमांडो



So where are we lacking?We have NVGs,HHTI,UAV,portable radars,best rifles,C130 etc and have a very capable SF which may not and need not be the best in the world but are best in the region for sure.

We have a proud history with our SF completing every given task.

Regarding the Nahan base.It is a Headquater for the SF unit which is sent to Kashmir.All the companies of the unit serve in Kashmir on rotation and Nahan serves as the base like Xyz base in Assam serves as a base for all SF in North East.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So where are we lacking?We have NVGs,HHTI,UAV,portable radars,best rifles,C130 etc and have a very capable SF which may not and need not be the best in the world but are best in the region for sure



NVG- limited in numbers, not helmet mounded, only monocular are in service.
UAV- very limited no of hand launched UAVs,
best rife? no, tavor is a good rifle but not the best. its not that accurate as hk-416 or fn scar. being a bullup design reloading time is more in tavor. 

what we don't have:
light weight FAST helmets with rail system for attaching accessories like helmet mounted illuminator, binocular NVGs, helmet mounted lighting system etc
high tech communication devices with which a SF operator can communicates with pilots to direct CAS aircrafts.
light weight BJ.
adequate number of NVGs for our SF
dedicated helicopters for special forces.
wrist computer for sharing real time intelligence


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> NVG- limited in numbers, not helmet mounded, only monocular are in service.
> UAV- very limited no of hand launched UAVs,
> best rife? no, tavor is a good rifle but not the best. its not that accurate as hk-416 or fn scar. being a bullup design reloading time is more in tavor.
> 
> what we don't have:
> light weight FAST helmets with rail system for attaching accessories like helmet mounted illuminator, binocular NVGs, helmet mounted lighting system etc
> high tech communication devices with which a SF operator can communicates with pilots to direct CAS aircrafts.
> light weight BJ.
> adequate number of NVGs for our SF
> dedicated helicopters for special forces.
> wrist computer for sharing real time intelligence


That is all wishful thinking for a budget of 40 billion and a Army of 1.3 million.

What difference will a binocular NVG mounted on a helmet make to the existing monocular one already in use?

Similarly,what is the benefit of a FAST helmet over a conventional helmet used by NSG?

NVG in SF are in adequate numbers and same goes for UAV..what is a adequate number for SF which is not a Infantry and will be used selectively?

Tavor and M4 are among the best in the world.What difference will the best make from one of the best?

How are Pakistani and Chinese SF compared to Indian SF?Why do we need to compare with the US when we are not going to be in a war with them?

Regarding,the CAS a/c i completely agree and we need a better helicopter for our SF.OTOH C130 is a perfect platform.

What we need is better surveillance and range.We already have a upper hand in this but we need to stay ahead and like you rightly said we need better communication sets and air strikes on call for SF operators.

But in the end we have to remember that technology can only take you so far.One of the best SF for me in Asia are from Philippines and Malayasia which are technologically inferior or at par with us.Except for Op Geronimo all other SF operations success were based on good planning and the men involved.So we dont have to be to depressed to not be the most tech savvy.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What difference will a binocular NVG mounted on a helmet make to the existing monocular one already in use?


a binocular provide grater field of view(fov). US is adopting panoramic NVGs and we are still stuck in monoculars
this pics shows the difference in vew of a panoramic NVG and a monocular NVG






COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Similarly,what is the benefit of a FAST helmet over a conventional helmet used by NSG?


the helmets used by NSg is bulky and heavy, it don's have any provision for attaching gadgets, we if we add this it will be too heavy.
look at the difference:








you tell me which one is good??


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> NVG in SF are in adequate numbers and same goes for UAV..what is a adequate number for SF which is not a Infantry and will be used selectively?


may be they have adequate no of NVGs but not a good quality.


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Tavor and M4 are among the best in the world.What difference will the best make from one of the best?


m4 and tavor are not the best rifles in the world. even US is looking for replacement of M4. US special forces have already replace M4 with Fn SCAR and HK-416.


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> How are Pakistani and Chinese SF compared to Indian SF?Why do we need to compare with the US when we are not going to be in a war with them?


if NATO sf think like you, then, their SF equipment will be similar to indian sf. even in Afghanistan ISAF is equipped with high end gadgets to fight talibans who don't even have a optical gun sight. chines are getting advance day by day. so we needs to ahead of enemy in technology and training.


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> But in the end we have to remember that technology can only take you so far.One of the best SF for me in Asia are from Philippines and Malayasia which are technologically inferior or at par with us.Except for Op Geronimo all other SF operations success were based on good planning and the men involved.So we dont have to be to depressed to not be the most tech savvy.


yes, Malaysia and Philippines have best SF in south asia when it comes to technology and equipment. best SF in asia are from Israel and south korea. Jordan also have good sf. they have one of the best training centers in the world.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> a binocular provide grater field of view(fov). US is adopting panoramic NVGs and we are still stuck in monoculars
> this pics shows the difference in vew of a panoramic NVG and a monocular NVG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the helmets used by NSg is bulky and heavy, it don's have any provision for attaching gadgets, we if we add this it will be too heavy.
> look at the difference:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 211519
> 
> you tell me which one is good??
> 
> may be they have adequate no of NVGs but not a good quality.
> 
> m4 and tavor are not the best rifles in the world. even US is looking for replacement of M4. US special forces have already replace M4 with Fn SCAR and HK-416.
> 
> if NATO sf think like you, then, their SF equipment will be similar to indian sf. even in Afghanistan ISAF is equipped with high end gadgets to fight talibans who don't even have a optical gun sight. chines are getting advance day by day. so we needs to ahead of enemy in technology and training.
> 
> yes, Malaysia and Philippines have best SF in south asia when it comes to technology and equipment. best SF in asia are from Israel and south korea. Jordan also have good sf. they have one of the best training centers in the world.



India is a country of 125+crore people and a budget of 40 billion for 1.3 million Army.USA and Europe spend 10 times the amount on a average SF soldier.

We should equip to be better than our adversary!How many panaromic and monocular NVG does Pakistan and Chinese SF have?Which rifle in the Pakistan and Chinese army is better than Indian Tavor or M4?How many Fast helmets are the Pakistanis using and what advantage will it give them in a war with India??

NATO and US need not think like me because they are filthy rich unlike us.40 billion is a poor budget for a Army of 1.3 million.That is why SF and the foot soldiers are last in the list of things to buy.

I have no doubt in my mind that our soldiers need better things coming from a Army background.We need 3 basic things first before any hi tech gadgets and ie Helmet,BPJ and shoes followed by a rifle which is a soldiers best friend.Then comes better reach to prevent 26/11 type of incidents followed by NVG,radio sets and the rest.

The things you mention are surely going to be there in the Indian SF by 2020 but then again US and Nato will be a decade ahead in 2020 coz of the constant development in military technology and a filthy rich budget.

My point is that we should not compare with the US and Nato as of now.

The reason i mentioned Philippines and Malayasia is because i was watching a programme on Discovery Turbo named 'Manhunt' and the Philippines Marines had just basic equipment but their soldiers were very good with living of the land and were very skilled.That is why i say technology can only take you so far.

BTW,if rumours are to be trusted then expect FAST helmets by 2017 and according to @Abingdonboy we will also have monocular sights soon.

BTW you say Tavor,M4 and AK are not even one of the best but you say Israeli SF is top notch and Israeli use all 3??


----------



## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> India is a country of 125+crore people and a budget of 40 billion for 1.3 million Army.USA and Europe spend 10 times the amount on a average SF soldier.
> 
> We should equip to be better than our adversary!How many panaromic and monocular NVG does Pakistan and Chinese SF have?Which rifle in the Pakistan and Chinese army is better than Indian Tavor or M4?How many Fast helmets are the Pakistanis using and what advantage will it give them in a war with India??
> 
> NATO and US need not think like me because they are filthy rich unlike us.40 billion is a poor budget for a Army of 1.3 million.That is why SF and the foot soldiers are last in the list of things to buy.
> 
> I have no doubt in my mind that our soldiers need better things coming from a Army background.We need 3 basic things first before any hi tech gadgets and ie Helmet,BPJ and shoes followed by a rifle which is a soldiers best friend.Then comes better reach to prevent 26/11 type of incidents followed by NVG,radio sets and the rest.
> 
> The things you mention are surely going to be there in the Indian SF by 2020 but then again US and Nato will be a decade ahead in 2020 coz of the constant development in military technology and a filthy rich budget.
> 
> My point is that we should not compare with the US and Nato as of now.
> 
> The reason i mentioned Philippines and Malayasia is because i was watching a programme on Discovery Turbo named 'Manhunt' and the Philippines Marines had just basic equipment but their soldiers were very good with living of the land and were very skilled.That is why i say technology can only take you so far.
> 
> BTW,if rumours are to be trusted then expect FAST helmets by 2017 and according to @Abingdonboy we will also have monocular sights soon.
> 
> BTW you say Tavor,M4 and AK are not even one of the best but you say Israeli SF is top notch and Israeli use all 3??



thats the problem. our army is increasing the number wthout increasing the budget. if they can't equip our soldier properly with the budget then why are the increasing the number? pakistan have FASt helmets in service with their SSGN. i had read about the advantage of IR illuminators in helmets and how that will help the sniper to identify the friendlies in an article in here. pakistanis use IR pointers and have better optical sights for their weapons. they have NVGs for almost every infantry and SF soldiers, and these will increasing their fighting efficiency at night. they use laser poiters in Sniper rifle, which is very effective in combat. i know they got this for foreign aid from US, but the point is they have it, no matter how they get it. pakistanis don't have binocular NVGs, but Pakistanis are not our bench mark, we don't need to always compair with them. we needs to be ahead of our enemy.
advantage of a FASt helmets is that it is light weight and can attach accessories on it.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> BTW,if rumours are to be trusted then expect FAST helmets by 2017 and according to @Abingdonboy we will also have monocular sights soon.


do we have any accessories with those FAST helmets??


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> BTW you say Tavor,M4 and AK are not even one of the best but you say Israeli SF is top notch and Israeli use all 3??



we don't know what kind of equipments Israelis use.. they introduce m4 into their service in late 90s. we introduce it after 2008., at the time US is looking replacement of that rifle.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> thats the problem. our army is increasing the number wthout increasing the budget. if they can't equip our soldier properly with the budget then why are the increasing the number? pakistan have FASt helmets in service with their SSGN. i had read about the advantage of IR illuminators in helmets and how that will help the sniper to identify the friendlies in an article in here. pakistanis use IR pointers and have better optical sights for their weapons. they have NVGs for almost every infantry and SF soldiers, and these will increasing their fighting efficiency at night. they use laser poiters in Sniper rifle, which is very effective in combat. i know they got this for foreign aid from US, but the point is they have it, no matter how they get it. pakistanis don't have binocular NVGs, but Pakistanis are not our bench mark, we don't need to always compair with them. we needs to be ahead of our enemy.
> advantage of a FASt helmets is that it is light weight and can attach accessories on it.
> 
> 
> do we have any accessories with those FAST helmets??
> 
> 
> we don't know what kind of equipments Israelis use.. they introduce m4 into their service in late 90s. we introduce it after 2008., at the time US is looking replacement of that rifle.


To be honest the gear you talk about i dont see it coming less than a decade away for the infantry and 5 years for SF.

FAST helmets are not game changers.SSG (N) has a few FAST helmets but i am not sure if they have IR iluminators.If just using it by a small team is a big deal then even PARA SF has FAST helmets.

I think SG might have the equipment pretty soon though.

You rightly said that Pakistan is not our benchmark but so is not the US with its economy.Our surveillance and communication infra is way above Pakistan in LOC.As far as night fighting capability goes we have 1 HHTI and 2-4 NVGs in every platoon and slowly they are inducting in numbers.

In sniper training i feel we need to pull up our socks with the US Army's help.I dont think we use pointers or computers for calculation for that matter.

Our SF is where US SF was at in 2003-04.

Our Infantry soldier is where US Infantry soldier was at in Gulf war 91.

But with the co-operation with foreign SF we will soon be there.When FAST helmets do get inducted they will be with all the rails and the pointers.

Weapon wise we need a better LMG before a AR and better NVGs.I feel Tavor is good till 2020.

Look we have come a long way since 26/11.So we will be there soon.

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## ranjeet

Pic is from Indian rescue mission in the city of Aden. Are these marcos?
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy

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## Abingdonboy

ranjeet said:


> Pic is from Indian rescue mission in the city of Aden. Are these marcos?
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy


The ones in the grey UCP are, the ones in the black are part of the ship's VBSS team.

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## ranjeet

One more pic ...

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## Abingdonboy

Garuds were onboard the IAF's C-17s:

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> i am not sure if they have IR iluminators


Counterinsurgency | Exclusive Interview with a Pakistani Special Forces Operator.

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## Abingdonboy

*Wonder why the operator on the right is in his jungle camo:*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The ones in the grey UCP are, the ones in the black are part of the ship's VBSS team.


Why you being a mute spectator,boy?

Whatsup with the Marcos upgradation?

@ranjeet

They are marcos.



Abingdonboy said:


> *Wonder why the operator on the right is in his jungle camo:*



Is that MARPAT?

Can someone id the sight on AK?

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Is that MARPAT?


Yup!



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Can someone id the sight on AK?


MARS sight (same sight the PARA (SF) use on their Tavors).

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> *Wonder why the operator on the right is in his jungle camo:*



Are you sure this is MARS??


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Why you being a mute spectator,boy?


Lol I feel like we have had this conversation with others in the past is all. Anyway the way I see it things are moving fast enough and the upgrades are coming sooner rather than later...



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Whatsup with the Marcos upgradation?



AFAIK we can expect the MARCOs' new ICS within the next 36 months.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Are you sure this is MARS??


Pretty sure mate.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Is that MARPAT?
> 
> Can someone id the sight on AK?












yes bro it is MARS sight..

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> View attachment 211676
> 
> View attachment 211677
> 
> 
> yes bro it is MARS sight..



The guy on the left doesnt look to be having MARS. (Maybe its my eyes)

Check the first pic..the guy standing behind the one who is sitting.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The guys on the left doesnt look to be having MARS. (Maybe its my eyes)


They all do, maybe I have better eyes then you

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The guy on the left doesnt look to be having MARS. (Maybe its my eyes)
> 
> Check the first pic..the guy standing behind the one who is sitting.



that is MARS sight...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> that is MARS sight...
> View attachment 211680


I need to get my eyes tested.

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

The guy in MARPAT looks an awful lot like SL Navy SBS!


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> The guy in MARPAT looks an awful lot like SL Navy SBS!


That makes sense since we were evacuating SLs too but when did SBS get MARPAT?


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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That makes sense since we were evacuating SLs too but when did SBS get MARPAT?


Not sure. The camo, comm set and the shoulder insignia makes it obvious that he isn't Indian. Matter of the fact the shoulder patch correlates with SL Navy insignias. Personally though I find this disgusting and disturbing, not sending the right signals to fellow countrymen down south.


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## hkdas

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> The guy in MARPAT looks an awful lot like SL Navy SBS!



no way he is srilankan SBS, srilankan SBS don't use ak-103. and india is evacuating SL nationals but we don't have any agrement with SL navy and we don't have any srilankan national onboard Indian navy ship which was redirected form anti-piracy mission.

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

hkdas said:


> no way he is srilankan SBS, srilankan SBS don't use ak-103. and india is evacuating SL nationals but we don't have any agrement with SL navy and we don't have any srilankan national onboard Indian navy ship which was redirected form anti-piracy mission.


Sure, whatever you say. I am sure you know it all! Cheers mate.


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## hkdas

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> Sure, whatever you say. I am sure you know it all! Cheers mate.


bro, what do you mean by that?? what i said is based on pure logic. it is very unlikely that SLN SBS conducting rescue operation with indian navy. and those BJ, Ak-103 all are indian navy's equipment. it may be true if you said that he is yemani special forces soldier because they also use marpat cammo.

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

hkdas said:


> bro, what do you mean by that?? what i said is based on pure logic. it is very unlikely that SLN SBS conducting rescue operation with indian navy. and those BJ, Ak-103 all are indian navy's equipment. it may be true if you said that he is yemani special forces soldier because they also use marpat cammo.


Nevermind, I was just taking a dig at all of us arm chair generals. We seem to know what port IN destroyers set sail from, what agreements our governments have with who, who wears what, who carries what etc etc with absolutely no factual evidence to back our claims up. In a nutshell your guess is as good as mine was my point.


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## hkdas

@SomeRandomSouthIndian, that radio set is also indian









and bro, for you dough on sholder patch. take a look,

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## Abingdonboy

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> Not sure. The camo, comm set and the shoulder insignia makes it obvious that he isn't Indian. Matter of the fact the shoulder patch correlates with SL Navy insignias. Personally though I find this disgusting and disturbing, not sending the right signals to fellow countrymen down south.


Don't bring your politics into this, your username says it all really.



hkdas said:


> no way he is srilankan SBS, srilankan SBS don't use ak-103. and india is evacuating SL nationals but we don't have any agrement with SL navy and we don't have any srilankan national onboard Indian navy ship which was redirected form anti-piracy mission.



That operator is 100% MARCOs, his equipment is IDENTICAL to the other operators' the only difference being his uniform (and we know the MARCOs use the jungle MARPAT anyway).


There's no way the IN would embark a foreign soldier for carrying out such ops.

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## Kinetic

hkdas said:


> Major Mohit Sharma from 1 para sf
> On 21 March 2009, he engaged in an encounter with terrorists in the Hafruda forest of the Kupwara sector of Jammu and Kashmir. He killed four terrorists and rescued two teammates in the process but sustained multiple gunshot wounds and finally succumbed to injuries. For this act, he was posthumously awarded the Ashoka Chakra, which is the highest peace time military decoration in India. He was awarded two gallantry decorations earlier in his career. The first was the Chief of Army Staff's commendation card for exemplary counter-terrorism duties during Operation Rakshak, which was followed by a Sena Medal for gallantry after a covert operation in 2005.



RIP brave soul.

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

Abingdonboy said:


> Don't bring your politics into this, your username says it all really.
> 
> 
> 
> That operator is 100% MARCOs, his equipment is IDENTICAL to the other operators' the only difference being his uniform (and we know the MARCOs use the jungle MARPAT anyway).
> 
> 
> There's no way the IN would embark a foreign soldier for carrying out such ops.


First up I am more than happy to be wrong if that soldier is indeed Indian. Secondly just what are you implying by "your politics" and "your name says it all"? The "politics" of the SL issue is just as much yours as it is mine. How does problems of the people of one particular state of your nation not concern "you"? I am no SL Tamil sympathiser, I don't care two bit about them. I care when it is my people that are affected be it up on the northern borders or otherwise. Pity that ignorance such as yours is what's preventing real attention to the issue at hand.

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## Abingdonboy

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> First up I am more than happy to be wrong if that soldier is indeed Indian. Secondly just what are you implying by "your politics" and "your name says it all"? The "politics" of the SL issue is just as much yours as it is mine. How does problems of the people of one particular state of your nation not concern "you"? I am no SL Tamil sympathiser, I don't care two bit about them. I care when it is my people that are affected be it up on the northern borders or otherwise. Pity that ignorance such as yours is what's preventing real attention to the issue at hand.


Fair enough my friend, I jumped to conclusions. I assumed you were a false flag member looking to troll and flame bait.

Anyway, like I have said, that is a MARCOs officer and not SL SBS.

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## ranjeet



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## hkdas

Please read it.. A conversation that... - Indian Para Commandos | Facebook
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro, did you post this in that FB page?? i stil remember you have said somthing like that in PDF,, are you the admin of that FB page??

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> Please read it.. A conversation that... - Indian Para Commandos | Facebook
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, bro, did you post this in that FB page?? i stil remember you have said somthing like that in PDF,, are you the admin of that FB page??



What the...

he copied my post.

Can i sue him?

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## Abingdonboy



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## SUDIP

ENJOY

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## Abingdonboy

Glimpses of MARCOs:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

SUDIP said:


> ENJOY


M4 with a silencer







Any idea what is the source of the video?

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## Abingdonboy

SUDIP said:


> ENJOY


Awesome video!

Wish there had been more footage of the kill house (shown very briefly at the end).

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## Abingdonboy

@Gabriel92 @levina @MilSpec

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*INDIAN ARMY, POLICE CONDUCT MOCK DRILL TO FIGHT MILITANTS IN KASHMIR*





_Illustration _

Following a slew of militant attacks in Jammu and Kashmir, Indian army and the local police has launched a joint mock drill to fight similar situations in the future. Assistant superintendent of police of Poonch district, Amit Kumar Gupta, said the drill was fruitful and similar sessions would be conducted in the coming days too.

"Everyone knows that from the past few days attacks and infiltration increased in the region and we got a lot of inputs that militants will intrude in the valley and will attack on our vital installations," Gupta said.

"On this basis, the district police of Poonch chalked out a plan and arranged a mock drill coordinating with the army in the Poonch. It created general alertness in the area and sense of security among people that army and police are active," he added.

Gupta further noted that Poonch was a sensitive region as 120 km of the Line of Control (LoC) passes through the area. A fierce gun battle had taken place between security forces and militants in Tanmarg area of Baramulla district in Kashmir on April 2. This is the third such encounter to take place between militants and security officials in less than a month.

Militants had earlier stormed Rajbagh police station in Kathua district, about 15 km from the border with Pakistan, on March 20 followed by an attack on an army camp in Samba district the next day.

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## bloo

SaqibSSG said:


> Really touchy moment


 
Troll somewhere else please.



@waz @Adios Amigo


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## SaqibSSG

bloo said:


> Troll somewhere else please.
> 
> 
> 
> @waz @Adios Amigo


As you wish


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## Unknowncommando

2 terrorists dispatched to hell by 1st Para in Srinagar .

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## Abingdonboy

@levina changed the songs (so shouldn't be banned in 90% of the globe) and lengthened

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO








PARA COMMANDOS

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## Bornubus

*1st Para













*

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> @levina changed the songs (so shouldn't be banned in 90% of the globe) and lengthened


Thanks for the tag!
I loved the long shot from India gate at time stamp 10:54. The music in d second half was better than the first half(JMHO!!) usually i like the kind of music you choose for your videos. 
Was it India at time stamp 1:50 or so??
One thing that I noticed is that the PM's body guards protect their body with bullet proof jackets(which is very visible through their Jaipuri suits) but they never bother to cover their head. Why so?

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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> The music in d second half was better than the first half(JMHO!!) usually i like the kind of music you choose for your videos.


Yeah the music was a massing pain for this video I really struggled to find any that worked with the video



levina said:


> Was it India at time stamp 1:50 or so??


Nope, that was Kathmandu (Nepal) @levina 


levina said:


> One thing that I noticed is that the PM's body guards protect their body with bullet proof jackets(which is very visible through their Jaipuri suits) but they never bother to cover their head. Why so?


Well the close protection team (the ones in safari/jaipuri suits)aren't going to be wearing helmets because they are there to blend in with the PM and fit in with their causal or formal dress. I agree though that the Counter Assault Team (CAT), the guys who like like they are ready for war, look out of place without anything on their heads but this must be for a reason. They have the budget but they don't seem to want them so we would have to ask them their reasoning.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Well the close protection team (the ones in safari/jaipuri suits)aren't going to be wearing helmets because they are there to blend in with the PM and fit in with their causal or formal dress. I agree though that the Counter Assault Team (CAT), the guys who like like they are ready for war, look out of place without anything on their heads but this must be for a reason. They have the budget but they don't seem to want them so we would have to ask them their reasoning.



Trust me when I say that these guys can be spotted even in a crowd. No way they blend with the crowd!! Lol
But I know you're right to an extent, they don't want to stick out like sour thumbs.

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## Bornubus



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## Talwar e Pakistan

Bornubus said:


> View attachment 214169



Indian Special Forces are ALRIGHT but honestly nothing compared to Pakistan. Pakistani Special Forces are far more experienced, experience can be used to enhance and constantly update training through trail and errors during combat. Not only are Pakistan Special Forces more experienced and well trained but they are also better equipped. But that is because Pakistan gives its Special Forces more priority due to the fact it depends on it very much as we are on the front line in the war on terror.














You cant even compare them with our regular infantry that is being modernized to full extent under Raheel Sharif.





Compared to









​


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## Niks

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Indian Special Forces are ALRIGHT but honestly nothing compared to Pakistan. Pakistani Special Forces are far more experienced, experience can be used to enhance and constantly update training through trail and errors during combat. Not only are Pakistan Special Forces more experienced and well trained but they are also better equipped. But that is because Pakistan gives its Special Forces more priority due to the fact it depends on it very much as we are on the front line in the war on terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cant even compare them with our regular infantry that is being modernized to full extent under Raheel Sharif.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


You are taking some old MARCOS pic...And the other pic is of para-military police force.I suggest you to go through the thread,to get an idea of how good Indian special forces are.

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## Koovie

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Indian Special Forces are ALRIGHT but honestly nothing compared to Pakistan. Pakistani Special Forces are far more experienced, experience can be used to enhance and constantly update training through trail and errors during combat. Not only are Pakistan Special Forces more experienced and well trained but they are also better equipped. But that is because Pakistan gives its Special Forces more priority due to the fact it depends on it very much as we are on the front line in the war on terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cant even compare them with our regular infantry that is being modernized to full extent under Raheel Sharif.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



1st pic: Is several years old

2end pic: Is not even showing Indian SOF. 

Try harder

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## AMCA

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Indian Special Forces are ALRIGHT but honestly nothing compared to Pakistan. Pakistani Special Forces are far more experienced, experience can be used to enhance and constantly update training through trail and errors during combat. Not only are Pakistan Special Forces more experienced and well trained but they are also better equipped. But that is because Pakistan gives its Special Forces more priority due to the fact it depends on it very much as we are on the front line in the war on terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cant even compare them with our regular infantry that is being modernized to full extent under Raheel Sharif.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Lol.. Let me give you a jinx of our Central Forces. I leave the look of our Military forces purely to your imagination

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## Sneaker

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Indian Special Forces are ALRIGHT but honestly nothing compared to Pakistan. Pakistani Special Forces are far more experienced, experience can be used to enhance and constantly update training through trail and errors during combat. Not only are Pakistan Special Forces more experienced and well trained but they are also better equipped. But that is because Pakistan gives its Special Forces more priority due to the fact it depends on it very much as we are on the front line in the war on terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cant even compare them with our regular infantry that is being modernized to full extent under Raheel Sharif.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Please open a separate d!ck measuring thread. Thank you.

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## Bornubus

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Indian Special Forces are ALRIGHT but honestly nothing compared to Pakistan. Pakistani Special Forces are far more experienced, experience can be used to enhance and constantly update training through trail and errors during combat. Not only are Pakistan Special Forces more experienced and well trained but they are also better equipped. But that is because Pakistan gives its Special Forces more priority due to the fact it depends on it very much as we are on the front line in the war on terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cant even compare them with our regular infantry that is being modernized to full extent under Raheel Sharif.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


firstly 

The pics belongs to the period when your SF/Army used to wear Salwar and the 2nd pic is of civilian

Regarding Experience when your SF was trying to comprehend the meaning of the word our SF successfully carried out its missions for example: Tangill Airdrop when Our 500 SF successfully cut the retreat of your Army plus Fighting a Bloody War in Sri lanka etc

And since 1980s insurgency in kashmir so compare all this with your failed ops of SSG against India starting from 1965 to several failed and high casualty attempts in Siachen

And if you think attaching a scope to chinese Type 56 is well equipped than a single Tavor 21 will cost you more than the entire kit of SSG jawan.

























Paramilitary






Note:The only problem with our Army/SF is its Vast size and limited budget

@Talwar e Pakistan

Regarding experience ,Few Facts

Operation Qiyadat of SSG

AKA 

Op Rajeev - A battle that Broke enemy Adventurism in Siachen

Tangail Airdrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battle for Hill 3234 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bornubus said:


> firstly
> 
> The pics belongs to the period when your SF/Army used to wear Salwar and the 2nd pic is of civilian
> 
> Regarding Experience when your SF was trying to comprehend the meaning of the word our SF successfully carried out its missions for example: Tangill Airdrop when Our 500 SF successfully cut the retreat of your Army plus Fighting a Bloody War in Sri lanka etc
> 
> And since 1980s insurgency in kashmir so compare all this with your failed ops of SSG against India starting from 1965 to several failed and high casualty attempts in Siachen
> 
> And if you think attaching a scope to chinese Type 56 is well equipped than a single Tavor 21 will cost you more than the entire kit of SSG jawan.
> 
> View attachment 214776
> View attachment 214777
> 
> View attachment 214778
> 
> View attachment 214779
> 
> View attachment 214780
> 
> View attachment 214781
> 
> 
> Paramilitary
> View attachment 214782
> 
> 
> 
> Note:The only problem with our Army/SF is its Vast size and limited budget
> 
> @Talwar e Pakistan
> 
> Regarding experience ,Few Facts
> 
> Operation Qiyadat of SSG
> 
> Op Rajeev - A battle that Broke enemy Adventurism in Siachen
> 
> Tangail Airdrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Battle for Hill 3234 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Well said!

And this is just 1%.

In the training,skill and education the Indian SF operator rates over Pakistani SF.

Our SF operators are taught technical subjects from functioning of a satellite to using the internet and giving first aid like a medic which is beside the multi linguistic knowledge.

PTK is the best form of martial arts/combat system used by any SF in Asia.Parkour gives them advantage in urban terrain.

The Tavor,PKM,Carl Gustav/Shipon,Glocks etc are best in class weapons in South Asia.

Operationally,Pakistan is where we were in early 90s in Kashmir.The war in Sri Lanka and the experience in Kashmir have made the SF very lethal.

Pakistanis have nothing to boast of in SF as SSG has a disastrous past from 65 air drop in Pathankot to Siachen where they could hold on against Indian regulars.

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## Bornubus

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Well said!
> 
> And this is just 1%.
> 
> In the training,skill and education the Indian SF operator rates over Pakistani SF.
> 
> Our SF operators are taught technical subjects from functioning of a satellite to using the internet and giving first aid like a medic which is beside the multi linguistic knowledge.
> 
> PTK is the best form of martial arts/combat system used by any SF in Asia.Parkour gives them advantage in urban terrain.
> 
> The Tavor,PKM,Carl Gustav/Shipon,Glocks etc are best in class weapons in South Asia.
> 
> Operationally,Pakistan is where we were in early 90s in Kashmir.The war in Sri Lanka and the experience in Kashmir have made the SF very lethal.
> 
> Pakistanis have nothing to boast of in SF as SSG has a disastrous past from 65 air drop in Pathankot to Siachen where they could hold on against Indian regulars.


True

And may i also add they are the best when it comes to High altitude Warfare apart from Jungle warfare So much so that even Jawans belongs to Tamil Nadu serves in Siachen 

But unfortunately for some people SF is just growing beard and pose for some shitty Magazine rather than Ground Experience and training.

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## Bornubus

4th Para SF During Advance Recon course

Yakima training center

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## Kinetic

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Indian Special Forces are ALRIGHT but honestly nothing compared to Pakistan. Pakistani Special Forces are far more experienced, experience can be used to enhance and constantly update training through trail and errors during combat. Not only are Pakistan Special Forces more experienced and well trained but they are also better equipped. But that is because Pakistan gives its Special Forces more priority due to the fact it depends on it very much as we are on the front line in the war on terror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cant even compare them with our regular infantry that is being modernized to full extent under Raheel Sharif.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​





WTF? POSTING SOME 15 YEARS OLD PICS AND THAT ALSO OF PARAMILITARY FORCES????

Our police seems to have better gears than your special forces....

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## special

marcos(?) from 0:08 onward
@Kinetic @Bornubus @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Talwar e Pakistan, 
take a look at indian Sf, you trash 
NSG:​









Aero India 2015, the U.S. Army teamed up with the Indian Army's 2nd Parachute Regiment (Special Forces) for a parachute demonstration and NSG from a C-17 Globemaster III2









garud commandos of indian air force:









marcos of indian navy

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## special

special group of Special frontier force

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## Bornubus

special said:


> marcos(?) from 0:08 onward
> @Kinetic @Bornubus @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> @Talwar e Pakistan,
> take a look at indian Sf, you trash
> NSG:​
> View attachment 214958
> 
> View attachment 214959
> 
> 
> Aero India 2015, the U.S. Army teamed up with the Indian Army's 2nd Parachute Regiment (Special Forces) for a parachute demonstration and NSG from a C-17 Globemaster III2
> View attachment 214960
> 
> 
> View attachment 214962
> 
> garud commandos of indian air force:
> View attachment 214964
> 
> View attachment 214965
> 
> 
> marcos of indian navy
> View attachment 214967
> 
> View attachment 214968


Dude they could be Marcos as PARA SF Usually wear PATKAs 

but i am not sure may be other guys tell us


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## special

Bornubus said:


> Dude they could be Marcos as PARA SF Usually wear PATKAs
> 
> but i am not sure may be other guys tell us


the optical sight used on that tavor is Mepro MOR Tri-Powered Reflex Sight with Red Laser, army SF don't use that in their Tavor, only marcos and garuds uses it.


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## Bornubus

special said:


> the optical sight used on that tavor is Mepro MOR Tri-Powered Reflex Sight with Red Laser, army SF don't use that in their Tavor, only marcos and garuds uses it.


And what's "special Group" of SFF ,is it different from 

Vikas SF


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## special

Bornubus said:


> And what's "special Group" of SFF ,is it different from
> 
> Vikas SF



SG is a part of SFF. just like SAG of NSG


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## Kinetic

@special they are army guys! might be special forces. Not MARCOS for sure though MARCOS are stationed in kashmir.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@special 

Firstly,these sights are only with Marcos and Garuds.

Secondly,Army SF dont use these helmets.

Thirdly,the place where this operation was carried out is in the reach of Marcos operating from Srinagar.

I would say they are Marcos.



Bornubus said:


> And what's "special Group" of SFF ,is it different from
> 
> Vikas SF


Vikas unit is the more common name of SG.In the Army if you ask about SG 100% people have no clue and if you talk about Vikas unit 90% dont have any clue.

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## special

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, is 21para is elite unit in para SF?? just like Seal team 6? why did they name "21 paraSF" after "11 para"? why not "12parasf"??
the other units are 1, 2, 3. 4, 9, 10, 11para and then 21para??. we know 5, 6, 7 are regular paras(missing SF units numberb/w 4para and 9 para). why then 21 para? 

bro, did marcos conducts joint operations with para sf in kashmir or they just operate with RR or they are independent operation?? AFAIK they occasionally operates with 9th para, and sometimes independently.



Kinetic said:


> @special they are army guys! might be special forces. Not MARCOS for sure though MARCOS are stationed in kashmir.



i think they might be marcos, because the helmets and weapon sight are are not used by army.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, is 21para is elite unit in para SF?? just like Seal team 6? why did they name "21 paraSF" after "11 para"? why not "12parasf"??
> the other units are 1, 2, 3. 4, 9, 10, 11para and then 21para??. we know 5, 6, 7 are regular paras(missing SF units numberb/w 4para and 9 para). why then 21 para?
> 
> bro, did marcos conducts joint operations with para sf in kashmir or they just operate with RR or they are independent operation?? AFAIK they occasionally operates with 9th para, and sometimes independently.
> 
> 
> 
> i think they might be marcos, because the helmets and weapon sight are are not used by army.



I have no idea about the reason behind jumping on to 21 after 11.


Regarding the Marcos it depends on what the source of intel is.If the source goes to Marcos they do it themselves or if the source is shared by the Army SF they go with the Para and if the source is RR and Army commanders decide to call in SF then they go or they request to be a part of operation along with Army SF.

But do remember Marcos operate 100 kms around Srinagar primarily in amphibious and urban operation..they 'do not' operate in deep jungles of Kupwara which is infamous for some of the deadliest operations faught by the RR and Para SF...Major Mohit Sharma was part of one such operation.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Kinetic said:


> WTF? POSTING SOME 15 YEARS OLD PICS AND THAT ALSO OF PARAMILITARY FORCES????
> 
> Our police seems to have better gears than your special forces....



Well Police and army are two different things.


----------



## Bornubus

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @special
> 
> Firstly,these sights are only with Marcos and Garuds.
> 
> Secondly,Army SF dont use these helmets.
> 
> Thirdly,the place where this operation was carried out is in the reach of Marcos operating from Srinagar.
> 
> I would say they are Marcos.
> 
> 
> Vikas unit is the more common name of SG.In the Army if you ask about SG 100% people have no clue and if you talk about Vikas unit 90% dont have any clue.





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> @special
> 
> Firstly,these sights are only with Marcos and Garuds.
> 
> Secondly,Army SF dont use these helmets.
> 
> Thirdly,the place where this operation was carried out is in the reach of Marcos operating from Srinagar.
> 
> I would say they are Marcos.
> 
> 
> Vikas unit is the more common name of SG.In the Army if you ask about SG 100% people have no clue and if you talk about Vikas unit 90% dont have any clue.


SFF is most obscure SF of India but they took part in every conflict even in Kargil, though i haven't heard of VIKAS from anybody i know in the army.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bornubus said:


> SFF is most obscure SF of India but they took part in every conflict even in Kargil, though i haven't heard of VIKAS from anybody i know in the army.


Both are the same.SG no one knows about.Everyone calls them Vikas unit.


----------



## Talwar e Pakistan

Bornubus said:


> firstly
> 
> The pics belongs to the period when your SF/Army used to wear Salwar and the 2nd pic is of civilian
> 
> Regarding Experience when your SF was trying to comprehend the meaning of the word our SF successfully carried out its missions for example: Tangill Airdrop when Our 500 SF successfully cut the retreat of your Army plus Fighting a Bloody War in Sri lanka etc
> 
> And since 1980s insurgency in kashmir so compare all this with your failed ops of SSG against India starting from 1965 to several failed and high casualty attempts in Siachen
> 
> And if you think attaching a scope to chinese Type 56 is well equipped than a single Tavor 21 will cost you more than the entire kit of SSG jawan.
> 
> View attachment 214776
> View attachment 214777
> 
> View attachment 214778
> 
> View attachment 214779
> 
> View attachment 214780
> 
> View attachment 214781
> 
> 
> Paramilitary
> View attachment 214782
> 
> 
> 
> Note:The only problem with our Army/SF is its Vast size and limited budget
> 
> @Talwar e Pakistan
> 
> Regarding experience ,Few Facts
> 
> Operation Qiyadat of SSG
> 
> AKA
> 
> Op Rajeev - A battle that Broke enemy Adventurism in Siachen
> 
> Tangail Airdrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Battle for Hill 3234 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Pic is from 2006, The Tangil air drop was 44 years ago and around 14 years from the birth of SSG at which during they lacked equipment and training. The SSG were raised from a company garrison so of course you wouldnt expect a good start in 1965 especially if our leadership at that time constantly threw them into suicide operations. Our SSG had no experience in arctic warfare but still did good. Study guns before you tell me thats a T-56, even so hes not even a SF unit, hes a regular. Not even half of your special operation forces are armed with Tavors and the some who are look like stick figures with tavors.

And what are you trying to tell me about these pics? People wearing Ushankas? The guy in the fifth picture looks like hes gonna piss his before he even enters combat.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Pic is from 2006, The Tangil air drop was 44 years ago and around 14 years from the birth of SSG at which during they lacked equipment and training. The SSG were raised from a company garrison so of course you wouldnt expect a good start in 1965 especially if our leadership at that time constantly threw them into suicide operations. Our SSG had no experience in arctic warfare but still did good. Study guns before you tell me thats a T-56, even so hes not even a SF unit, hes a regular. Not even half of your special operation forces are armed with Tavors and the some who are look like stick figures with tavors.
> 
> And what are you trying to tell me about these pics? People wearing Ushankas? The guy in the fifth picture looks like hes gonna piss his before he even enters combat.



Almost every Indian SF operator carries Tavor or a M4.The ones carrying Grenade launchers and Rocket launchers carry Uzi.

Our SF budget is 10 times your budget man what the fck are you talking about the SAG of NSG has 1000-1500 operators with a budget in excess of 20 million dollars 'officially' just for weapons,equipment clothing and training.

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## special

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Pic is from 2006



no, it was from late 90s.


Talwar e Pakistan said:


> The Tangil air drop was 44 years ago and around 14 years from the birth of SSG at which during they lacked equipment and training. The SSG were raised from a company garrison so of course you wouldnt expect a good start in 1965 especially if our leadership at that time constantly threw them into suicide operations. Our SSG had no experience in arctic warfare but still did good.



Tangil air drop was done by paras just 3 or 4 years after SF unit was created. SSGs performance in kargil war was also very pathetic.in 1999 SSG loss the battle to some infantry soldiers of indian army


Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Not even half of your special operation forces are armed with Tavors and the some who are look like stick figures with tavors.


 go troll some were else. every army and air force special forces are equipped with tavor. marcos uses both ak-103 and tavors as their slandered issued refiles.

.


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## Talwar e Pakistan

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Almost every Indian SF operator carries Tavor or a M4.The ones carrying Grenade launchers and Rocket launchers carry Uzi.
> 
> Our SF budget is 10 times your budget man what the fck are you talking about the SAG of NSG has 1000-1500 operators with a budget in excess of 20 million dollars 'officially' just for weapons,equipment clothing and training.




10 times? SSG budget is classified, so no one knows its size or budget.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> 10 times? SSG budget is classified, so no one knows its size or budget.



Okay...what is the defence budget of Pakistan?

What % goes to Army??


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## Abingdonboy

NSG May 27, 2014:










































Kinetic said:


> @special they are army guys! might be special forces. Not MARCOS for sure though MARCOS are stationed in kashmir.


They are MARCOs 100%, go back a few pages on here bro there were pics of MARCOs in another op in Kashmir.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

AMCA said:


> Lol.. Let me give you a jinx of our Central Forces. I leave the look of our Military forces purely to your imagination




Cant even compare em with our 2014-2015 Police.
Even though they lack a budget, imagine the capability of the SSG.
























special said:


> marcos(?) from 0:08 onward
> @Kinetic @Bornubus @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> @Talwar e Pakistan,
> take a look at indian Sf, you trash
> NSG:​
> View attachment 214958
> 
> View attachment 214959
> 
> 
> Aero India 2015, the U.S. Army teamed up with the Indian Army's 2nd Parachute Regiment (Special Forces) for a parachute demonstration and NSG from a C-17 Globemaster III2
> View attachment 214960
> 
> 
> View attachment 214962
> 
> garud commandos of indian air force:
> View attachment 214964
> 
> View attachment 214965
> 
> 
> marcos of indian navy
> View attachment 214967
> 
> View attachment 214968



Like i said you cant even compare em to our police force.
Calling me trash? I can say mean things too that'll make your traumatized ; little fan boy punk.


----------



## Bornubus

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Pic is from 2006, The Tangil air drop was 44 years ago and around 14 years from the birth of SSG at which during they lacked equipment and training. The SSG were raised from a company garrison so of course you wouldnt expect a good start in 1965 especially if our leadership at that time constantly threw them into suicide operations. Our SSG had no experience in arctic warfare but still did good. Study guns before you tell me thats a T-56, even so hes not even a SF unit, hes a regular. Not even half of your special operation forces are armed with Tavors and the some who are look like stick figures with tavors.
> 
> And what are you trying to tell me about these pics? People wearing Ushankas? The guy in the fifth picture looks like hes gonna piss his before he even enters combat.


Again an ill informed post

Even our Paramillitary are being Equipped with Tavors as these are being manufacturered locally under TOT Even before Tavors they were armed with M4.

BSF and CRPF with Tavor











why did you mentioned Arctic warfare ,the thing is Our SF outclassed SSG in every field due to the experience from the jungle warfare of SL to high altitude of Kargil 
sri lanka





Kargil






And the pic you mentioned is from SPG (security detail) i am sure these operators will eat your SSG alive even in hand to hand combat let alone firefight





Lastly compare these pics ,it seems your SSG cant even hold the 3kg rifle firmly 

so unprofessional






Comapre with this

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## WaLeEdK2

This is full equipped ssg soldier back in 2010. How come Indians haven't standardized night vision yet?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Cant even compare em with our 2014-2015 Police.
> Even though they lack a budget, imagine the capability of the SSG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like i said you cant even compare em to our police force.
> Calling me trash? I can say mean things too that'll make your traumatized ; little fan boy punk.


Not only they lack a budget but also technical education which makes one wiser and no we cant imagine the capabilities of someone wearing red bike gloves.



WaLeEdK2 said:


> View attachment 215126
> 
> This is full equipped ssg soldier back in 2010. How come Indians haven't standardized night vision yet?


Because our operators dont wear night visions at day to look cool.

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## Abingdonboy

Talwar e Pakistan said:


>


This is the GIGN- NOT Pakistani.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Well said!
> 
> And this is just 1%.
> 
> In the training,skill and education the Indian SF operator rates over Pakistani SF.
> 
> Our SF operators are taught technical subjects from functioning of a satellite to using the internet and giving first aid like a medic which is beside the multi linguistic knowledge.
> 
> PTK is the best form of martial arts/combat system used by any SF in Asia.Parkour gives them advantage in urban terrain.
> 
> The Tavor,PKM,Carl Gustav/Shipon,Glocks etc are best in class weapons in South Asia.
> 
> Operationally,Pakistan is where we were in early 90s in Kashmir.The war in Sri Lanka and the experience in Kashmir have made the SF very lethal.
> 
> Pakistanis have nothing to boast of in SF as SSG has a disastrous past from 65 air drop in Pathankot to Siachen where they could hold on against Indian regulars.



Ha our SSG are taught all that way before they even apply to become a member of the special forces. M4A1> Tavor,PKM, Carl Gustav/Shipon, Glotc ect...

1990s dont make me laugh, and comparing SSG experience with Indian SF? Just to let you know the SSG are always involved in 24/7 fighting with terrorists. In 1965 we lacked equipment, training and experience; sending a new born unit into the a suicide mission in the heart of India was obviously going to mean defeat.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> you idiot your entaire defense budget is 6 billion droller... our army's budget alone is 3.3 billion that means india spend equivalent of more than half of the amount of your entaire defense budget for army alone.


Kindly bluetooth your commonsense across the border.



Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Ha our SSG are taught all that way before they even apply to become a member of the special forces. M4A1> Tavor,PKM, Carl Gustav/Shipon, Glotc ect...
> 
> 1990s dont make me laugh, and comparing SSG experience with Indian SF? Just to let you know the SSG are always involved in 24/7 fighting with terrorists. In 1965 we lacked equipment, training and experience; sending a new born unit into the a suicide mission in the heart of India was obviously going to mean defeat.



Why do your operators surrender against talibans??

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## Bornubus

special said:


> you idiot your entaire defense budget is 6 billion droller... our army's budget alone is 3.3 billion that means india spend equivalent of more than half of the amount of your entaire defense budget for army alone.


Indian defence budget is around 

$40 + $10(CAPFs) = 50 ~ billion


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bornubus said:


> Indian defence budget is around
> 
> $40 + $10(CAPFs) = 50 ~ billion


The Army got 13000 crore rupees.


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## special

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Kindly bluetooth your commonsense across the border.


sorry, a correction in that value... 3.3 billion is for modanisation... entair army budget is more than 20 billion(army got 53% of total defense budget, which is $40billion).. that means indian army gets more than 3 times the size of Pakistan's entair defense budget!!!!

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## Talwar e Pakistan

From the looks of it, India needs to spend more on education.


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## Bornubus

@Talwar e Pakistan

As i told you earlier your SSG has very poor record against our infantry let alone SF

this is from 

Brig Javed Hussain former SSG

The fight for Siachen - The Express Tribune

plZ read the history of your ssg against India

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special said:


> sorry, a correction in that value... 3.3 billion is for modanisation... entair army budget is more than 20 billion(army got 53% of total defense budget, which is $40billion).. that means indian army gets more than 3 times the size of Pakistan's entair defense budget!!!!
> View attachment 215131


In the year 2014 Army got 13000 crore rupees rest was for salary and the normal expenses excuding heavy vehicle maintence food and Rashtriya rifles budget.Just for spending.

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## special

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Like i said you cant even compare em to our police force.
> Calling me trash? I can say mean things too that'll make your traumatized ; little fan boy punk.


get-lost you fool...


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## Talwar e Pakistan

Bornubus said:


> Again an ill informed post
> 
> Even our Paramillitary are being Equipped with Tavors as these are being manufacturered locally under TOT Even before Tavors they were armed with M4.
> 
> BSF and CRPF with Tavor
> View attachment 215114
> 
> 
> View attachment 215118
> 
> 
> why did you mentioned Arctic warfare ,the thing is Our SF outclassed SSG in every field due to the experience from the jungle warfare of SL to high altitude of Kargil
> sri lanka
> View attachment 215104
> 
> 
> Kargil
> View attachment 215105
> 
> 
> 
> And the pic you mentioned is from SPG (security detail) i am sure these operators will eat your SSG alive even in hand to hand combat let alone firefight
> 
> View attachment 215106
> 
> Lastly compare these pics ,it seems your SSG cant even hold the 3kg rifle firmly
> 
> so unprofessional
> 
> View attachment 215107
> 
> 
> Comapre with this
> 
> View attachment 215125



Those guys look like they dont even know how to handle a tavor. Your war in Sri Lanka only lasted 14 days, doesnt really add to experience not to mention 76 of your so called "special forces" died and went missing while you guys managed to kill only around 150-200 Sri Lankan peasents turned fighters; The statistics are really depressing. And talking about kargil, you pretend that we didnt gain experince.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Those guys look like they dont even know how to handle a tavor. Your war in Sri Lanka only lasted 14 days, doesnt really add to experience not to mention 76 of your so called "special forces" died and went missing while you guys managed to kill only around 150-200 Sri Lankan peasents turned fighters; The statistics are really depressing. And talking about kargil, you pretend that we didnt gain experince.


 Are you stupid or are you stupid??

As many as 3-4 Indian SF units spent a tenure of 6 months each in Sri Lanka where they were the only feared force.SL Army was no good then.We captured Jaffna and headed North much more than anyone could imagine the.The Marcos carried our numerous amphibious operations and were very lethal.

Very unlike of your SF that surrenders.

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## special

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Your war in Sri Lanka only lasted 14 days


IPKF was in srilanka from July 1987 – March 1990, is this look like 14 days to you??
it took only 14 days for pakistan army to surrender in 71 war... a record time for surrender.

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## Bornubus

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Those guys look like they dont even know how to handle a tavor. Your war in Sri Lanka only lasted 14 days, doesnt really add to experience not to mention 76 of your so called "special forces" died and went missing while you guys managed to kill only around 150-200 Sri Lankan peasents turned fighters; The statistics are really depressing. And talking about kargil, you pretend that we didnt gain experince.


Again a trash post with Gutter logic 

If you claim something at least back it with facts otherwise you will look Stupid and this lesson is not just for PDF but for your life

NOTE: Those LTTE peasant were armed to teeth and run a virtually separate country for more than 20 Years,last i heard they had

T 55

small Air force and Navy and weapons better than your salwar army

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## special

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> talking about kargil, you pretend that we didnt gain experince



your experience!!??? yes, pakistan army got experience in run for their life in kargil war, ooh and also they got experience in rejecting dead bodes of their-own soldiers.

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## bloo

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Cant even compare em with our 2014-2015 Police.
> Even though they lack a budget, imagine the capability of the SSG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like i said you cant even compare em to our police force.
> Calling me trash? I can say mean things too that'll make your traumatized ; little fan boy punk.



You are hellbent on denial but tell us how many operations your SSUs have taken part in?
Let me answer that for you too, "not nearly as much as the NSG".
Apart from using advanced equipment NSG are also proficient in Counterterrorism, SWAT, PKT, parkour, hostage rescue, bomb disposal, VIP security et cetra.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but no way can your police come even close to what the NSG are capable of.

P.S. The 4th pic is the French GIGN not the Pak SSU.

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## Kinetic

@special and @Bornubus nice pics dudes. @Abingdonboy good as usual.

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## AMCA

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Cant even compare em with our 2014-2015 Police.
> Even though they lack a budget, imagine the capability of the SSG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like i said you cant even compare em to our police force.
> Calling me trash? I can say mean things too that'll make your traumatized ; little fan boy punk.



Lol dude seriously!! Our Police and Civilians gave your SSG a run for the money in 1965 war. They were captured and knocked out by our Local police men, such is the stealth of your special forces..

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## Koovie

@Talwar e Pakistan 

So desperate that you have to put in French anti terror units as Pak SF ?

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## The_Sidewinder

Why feed a troll?? I know your enjoying his stupidity but theres a limit to everything.
@Koovie @special @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @bloo @Bornubus

Its not his fault really. When your own govt twists history books & feeds false superiority syndrom from childhood results like these looks inevitable.  

Carry on with rational discussion among yourself.

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## bipi@342

*Green Nod for SPG Training Centre in Rajasthan *
NEW DELHI: The Environment Ministry panel has given a go-ahead for the construction of a training centre in Rajasthan for the *new counter-terrorist force of Special Protection Group (SPG) *that is being raised to protect the Prime Minister from new-age terror threats.

The proposal pending from 2013 was cleared by the ministry’s Forest Advisory Committee (FAC) as a special case in national interest despite ambiguity over the forest type. The panel gave its general approval to the project seeking diversion of 191.93 Ha of land in Rajasthan’s Alwar district.

*New-age terror threats include chemical, biological, nuclear and radiological warfare, unmanned aerial vehicle and sophisticated communication equipments*.

The panel noted that the status of the forest land granted to SPG by the Rajasthan government was unclear — the State government on one hand said that the land allotted to SPG was a deemed forest, while on other hand it said that as per a committee, it is not a part of deemed forest.

It said that in case the land came under the deemed forest category, it needed forest clearance from the central government before it could be put to non-forestry use.

The committee further added that the proposal will be sent to Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar for approval after the State government submits GPS map citing the status of forest land.

The conditions imposed on SPG include planting of trees in vacant area, establishing check posts at specified intervals to check illegal movement of trucks carrying mining material and paying the cost for establishing a high-tech nursery to develop five lakh seedlings. 

“The forest land sought for this project is selected based on strategic ground decided by technical experts. Therefore, the requirement is unavoidable and is bare minimum. Two hundred and twenty six trees are likely to be cut for the purpose, but no rare, endangered or threatened species of flora and fauna are likely to be affected,” the panel said.

Green Nod for SPG Training Centre in Rajasthan -The New Indian Express

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## special

bipi@342 said:


> new counter-terrorist force of Special Protection Group (SPG


what is the need for a counter terrorists force in SPG?? that money should be spend for improving NSG's equipment.


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## Talwar e Pakistan

special said:


> your experience!!??? yes, pakistan army got experience in run for their life in kargil war, ooh and also they got experience in rejecting dead bodes of their-own soldiers.





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not only they lack a budget but also technical education which makes one wiser and no we cant imagine the capabilities of someone wearing red bike gloves.
> 
> 
> Because our operators dont wear night visions at day to look cool.



And this is the education your "special forces" received in order to get their jobs.







Bornubus said:


> Again an ill informed post
> 
> Even our Paramillitary are being Equipped with Tavors as these are being manufacturered locally under TOT Even before Tavors they were armed with M4.
> 
> BSF and CRPF with Tavor
> View attachment 215114
> 
> 
> View attachment 215118
> 
> 
> why did you mentioned Arctic warfare ,the thing is Our SF outclassed SSG in every field due to the experience from the jungle warfare of SL to high altitude of Kargil
> sri lanka
> View attachment 215104
> 
> 
> Kargil
> View attachment 215105
> 
> 
> 
> And the pic you mentioned is from SPG (security detail) i am sure these operators will eat your SSG alive even in hand to hand combat let alone firefight
> 
> View attachment 215106
> 
> Lastly compare these pics ,it seems your SSG cant even hold the 3kg rifle firmly
> 
> so unprofessional
> 
> View attachment 215107
> 
> 
> Comapre with this
> 
> View attachment 215125





COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Kindly bluetooth your commonsense across the border.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do your operators surrender against talibans??



Surrender against Taliban? Which Indian media channel did you hear that from! 



bloo said:


> You are hellbent on denial but tell us how many operations your SSUs have taken part in?
> Let me answer that for you too, "not nearly as much as the NSG".
> Apart from using advanced equipment NSG are also proficient in Counterterrorism, SWAT, PKT, parkour, hostage rescue, bomb disposal, VIP security et cetra.
> I'm sorry to burst your bubble but no way can your police come even close to what the NSG are capable of.
> 
> P.S. The 4th pic is the French GIGN not the Pak SSU.


Saying this again, you can even compare em to our police.


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## bloo

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Saying this again, you can even compare em to our police.



Of course there's no comparison, NSG are too good, too experienced to be compared to some nubile police force.

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## special

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> And this is the education your "special forces" received in order to get their jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surrender against Taliban? Which Indian media channel did you hear that from!
> 
> 
> Saying this again, you can even compare em to our police.





Talwar e Pakistan said:


> And this is the education your "special forces" received in order to get their jobs.


pakistan army torturing a civilian.. i don't know from where your army learned torturing civilins..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

@Talwar e Pakistan






Watch SSG surrender...and STFU.

No disrespect but here is another link...May they rest in peace.

SSG Heroes Killed Eight Talibans Before They Were Shot | Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz

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## special

@Talwar e Pakistan, an SSG commando killed 19 of his colleges by blew himself up during dinner at the SSG's headquarters mess at Tarbela Ghazi.
Pak's new threat: Army officer as suicide bomber

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## 420canada

not going to lie i met up with a couple of SF around the world but the most funniest SF are Pakistani and Indian over here in Canada we got the best of both worlds. my friend rakesh and my other friend pasha where both in SF one was 
Ssg and the other para commando. but the most funny thing was both here scared to use their skills against each other. it would mostly be a fight of words and nothing else. one time my Pakistani counterpart did a bet with Rakesh if he lost he would have to eat beef nahari with us he lost and he did eat nahari same as our Pakistani friend had to take a couple of shots of paan liquor.


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## K M Cariappa



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## Bornubus

@Talwar e Pakistan

Stop posting these Filthy thread derailing posts with Zero relevance to SF/Army


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## Abingdonboy

bipi@342 said:


> *Green Nod for SPG Training Centre in Rajasthan *
> NEW DELHI: The Environment Ministry panel has given a go-ahead for the construction of a training centre in Rajasthan for the *new counter-terrorist force of Special Protection Group (SPG) *that is being raised to protect the Prime Minister from new-age terror threats.
> 
> The proposal pending from 2013 was cleared by the ministry’s Forest Advisory Committee (FAC) as a special case in national interest despite ambiguity over the forest type. The panel gave its general approval to the project seeking diversion of 191.93 Ha of land in Rajasthan’s Alwar district.
> 
> *New-age terror threats include chemical, biological, nuclear and radiological warfare, unmanned aerial vehicle and sophisticated communication equipments*.
> 
> The panel noted that the status of the forest land granted to SPG by the Rajasthan government was unclear — the State government on one hand said that the land allotted to SPG was a deemed forest, while on other hand it said that as per a committee, it is not a part of deemed forest.
> 
> It said that in case the land came under the deemed forest category, it needed forest clearance from the central government before it could be put to non-forestry use.
> 
> The committee further added that the proposal will be sent to Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar for approval after the State government submits GPS map citing the status of forest land.
> 
> The conditions imposed on SPG include planting of trees in vacant area, establishing check posts at specified intervals to check illegal movement of trucks carrying mining material and paying the cost for establishing a high-tech nursery to develop five lakh seedlings.
> 
> “The forest land sought for this project is selected based on strategic ground decided by technical experts. Therefore, the requirement is unavoidable and is bare minimum. Two hundred and twenty six trees are likely to be cut for the purpose, but no rare, endangered or threatened species of flora and fauna are likely to be affected,” the panel said.
> 
> Green Nod for SPG Training Centre in Rajasthan -The New Indian Express


Looks like the SPG are raising their own version of the US Secret Service's Hazardous Agent Mitigation Medical Response (HAMMER), the F350 being their vehicle in the US President's Motorcade:
















I wonder if this means the SPG's PM motorcade is going to get such a vehicle?


Very much needed in this day and age and frankly shameful the setting up of this unit/team has been delayed this long because of such red tape issues.

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## ni8mare

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> From the looks of it, India needs to spend more on education.





Talwar e Pakistan said:


> And this is the education your "special forces" received in order to get their jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surrender against Taliban? Which Indian media channel did you hear that from!
> 
> 
> Saying this again, you can even compare em to our police.



is that is why pakistani are 50% literate and india is 75% literate

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Looks like the SPG are raising their own version of the US Secret Service's Hazardous Agent Mitigation Medical Response (HAMMER), the F350 being their vehicle in the US President's Motorcade:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if this means the SPG's PM motorcade is going to get such a vehicle?
> 
> 
> Very much needed in this day and age and frankly shameful the setting up of this unit/team has been delayed this long because of such red tape issues.


but, Hazardous Agent Mitigation Medical Response (HAMMER) is a medical response team for the US precedent, these are doctors not commandos. what SPG is rising is new CT commando unit who are trained in chemical, biological, nuclear and radiological warfare and men trained to operate unmanned aerial vehicle and sophisticated communication equipment.
how anyone can relate the HAMMER and SPG's new AT unit?


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> but, Hazardous Agent Mitigation Medical Response (HAMMER) is a medical response team for the US precedent, these are doctors not commandos. what SPG is rising is new CT commando unit who are trained in chemical, biological, nuclear and radiological warfare and men trained to operate unmanned aerial vehicle and sophisticated communication equipment.
> how anyone can relate the HAMMER and SPG's new AT unit?


The USSS HAMMER team is the closest equivalent I can find to the NBC/CT the SPG is raising. As it stands the SPG, like the USSS, already have a Counter Assault Team (CAT) who both ride in the PM/President's Motorcade and are deployed when they are on foot in (relative) close proximity to them additionally the SPG has an ALS ambulance (that Mercedes Sprinter van) with paramedics and doctors (along with all such relevant medical supplies for the PM like blood) that rides in the PM's motorcade too.

So the team the SPG is raising will be specifically for the NBC threat (again, it's crazy it has taken then this long to get such a capability given the threat to any Indian PM these days). Question is what they will look like i.e. will they be armed similarly to the CAT?

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> The USSS HAMMER team is the closest equivalent I can find to the NBC/CT the SPG is raising. As it stands the SPG, like the USSS, already have a Counter Assault Team (CAT) who both ride in the PM/President's Motorcade and are deployed when they are on foot in (relative) close proximity to them additionally the SPG has an ALS ambulance (that Mercedes Sprinter van) with paramedics and doctors (along with all such relevant medical supplies for the PM like blood) that rides in the PM's motorcade too.
> 
> So the team the SPG is raising will be specifically for the NBC threat (again, it's crazy it has taken then this long to get such a capability given the threat to any Indian PM these days). Question is what they will look like i.e. will they be armed similarly to the CAT?


bro, can you list out the top 10 protection force in this world??.. according to you assessment 
i think USSS is no. one. did our spg make it to the list of top 10??


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> bro, can you list out the top 10 protection force in this world??.. according to you assessment
> i think USSS is no. one. did our spg make it to the list of top 10??


It's almost impossible to make such a list for such a niche role. 

I would rate the SPG right at the top of any such list though- just a little below the USSS. As the threat to Indian PMs continues to grow along with the SPG's budget I can already see they are going in the direction of the USSS's over the top security i.e. transporting the entire motorcade wherever the POTUS goes (the SPG already do so, albeit on a smaller scale) for the PM's visits to regional nations. 

In terms of the training of the individual protective officers and the professionalism of the force the SPG is on par with any such organisation in the world- if not ahead.


It's not fair to judge them by such arbitrary measures but the USSS has been stung by multiple embarrassing incidents in recent years:



Drunk Secret Service agents crash into White House - CNN.com

Secret Service agents disrupted bomb investigation at White House - The Washington Post

Secret Service Agents Booted From Obama's Europe Trip After Drinking

Secret Service agents sent home from Netherlands were warned to avoid trouble - The Washington Post

Report: Secret Service Mistakes Responsible for White House Intruder

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/14/u...-eased-way-for-white-house-intruder.html?_r=0


Secret Service Prostitution Scandal

You won't see many protective agencies in the world that can compete with:

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> It's almost impossible to make such a list for such a niche role.
> 
> I would rate the SPG right at the top of any such list though- just a little below the USSS. As the threat to Indian PMs continues to grow along with the SPG's budget I can already see they are going in the direction of the USSS's over the top security i.e. transporting the entire motorcade wherever the POTUS goes (the SPG already do so, albeit on a smaller scale) for the PM's visits to regional nations.
> 
> In terms of the training of the individual protective officers and the professionalism of the force the SPG is on par with any such organisation in the world- if not ahead.
> 
> 
> It's not fair to judge them by such arbitrary measures but the USSS has been stung by multiple embarrassing incidents in recent years:
> 
> 
> 
> Drunk Secret Service agents crash into White House - CNN.com
> 
> Secret Service agents disrupted bomb investigation at White House - The Washington Post
> 
> Secret Service Agents Booted From Obama's Europe Trip After Drinking
> 
> Secret Service agents sent home from Netherlands were warned to avoid trouble - The Washington Post
> 
> Report: Secret Service Mistakes Responsible for White House Intruder
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/14/u...-eased-way-for-white-house-intruder.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> Secret Service Prostitution Scandal
> 
> You won't see many protective agencies in the world that can compete with:


during recent visit of Obama in india, USSS critisice indian security unit as low intelligent in their test,did they said this as an excuse for deploying in top every high-rise buildings or is that true??. is SPG also in those units US security personals criticize? and why did those personals in SPG are only in service for 3=5 yeras?? why don't they recruit commandos for permanently(in service as long as they are fit for the job)??


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## Unknowncommando

SPG CAT in safari

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> SPG CAT in safari


Would be for the dress rehearsals of Independence day or something, when they are on active duty in the PM's detail they will be fully kitted up.

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## Cat Shannon

Recently, I met a guy from Air force, was in nsg, just got deputed back to his parent force, IAF. He did stints with nsg, rr. Good chap, it was a pleasure knowing him.

I didn't bug him much, I guess a lot of guys here would liked to have asked a lot of questions.


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## Abingdonboy

Cat Shannon said:


> Recently, I met a guy from Air force, was in nsg, just got deputed back to his parent force, IAF. He did stints with nsg, rr. Good chap, it was a pleasure knowing him.
> 
> I didn't bug him much, I guess a lot of guys here would liked to have asked a lot of questions.


An IAF guy serving in NSG is not something I've heard of before but you met this guy so who am I to question? But and IAF guy serving in RR?? 

This just doesn't make sense. RR is an IA unit, why would IAF personnel be deputed to it?

Anyway, I can't comment on the validity of these claims because you spoke to the guy and not I, I am just very confused by the whole thing. 

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


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## Cat Shannon

Abingdonboy said:


> An IAF guy serving in NSG is not something I've heard of before but you met this guy so who am I to question? But and IAF guy serving in RR??
> 
> This just doesn't make sense. RR is an IA unit, why would IAF personnel be deputed to it?
> 
> Anyway, I can't comment on the validity of these claims because you spoke to the guy and not I, I am just very confused by the whole thing.
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR




That's what he said. He was from IAF.

He said he got trained at manesar. That should be nsg, no ? I.e. apart from him telling me specifically about having served in nsg, rr in the valley, NE. I made sure.


----------



## janon

Cat Shannon said:


> That's what he said. He was from IAF.
> 
> He said he got trained at manesar. That should be nsg, no ? I.e. apart from him telling me specifically about having served in nsg, rr in the valley, NE. I made sure.


He could be flying C-130s from Manesar. The IAF transports the NSG in helicopters and aircrafts. So that must be what he was doing with the NSG.

I'm guessing it was the same with RR. They have one para qualified unit, which obviously needs a transport aircraft.


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## Cat Shannon

janon said:


> He could be flying C-130s from Manesar. The IAF transports the NSG in helicopters and aircrafts. So that must be what he was doing with the NSG.
> 
> I'm guessing it was the same with RR. They have one para qualified unit, which obviously needs a transport aircraft.




Could be, yes ! But he didn't look like a c130 pilot to me, he felt and acted pretty much like a nsg commando would.

Maybe he was in garud and just told me nsg.

I think it's quite possible for our special forces to intermingle.

I mean you can't create a unified special forces command just like that without interoperability and synchronization.

I think it's good. It reduces that shady regimental sense of honor among three services. I loathe it, honestly speaking.


----------



## janon

Cat Shannon said:


> Could be, yes ! But he didn't look like a c130 pilot to me, he felt and acted pretty much like a nsg commando would.
> 
> Maybe he was in garud and just told me nsg.
> 
> I think it's quite possible for our special forces to intermingle.
> 
> I mean you can't create a unified special forces command just like that without interoperability and synchronization.
> 
> I think it's good. It reduces that shady regimental sense of honor among three services. I loathe it, honestly speaking.



Is he a pilot at all, in the IAF? I mean, is he a flying officer? If so, it is unlikely that he was in the Garuds. But otherwise, it is possible.


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## Cat Shannon

janon said:


> Is he a pilot at all, in the IAF? I mean, is he a flying officer? If so, it is unlikely that he was in the Garuds. But otherwise, it is possible.




No, he wasn't a pilot. That much I am almost 100% certain.

I asked him garud, he said nsg. Twice. There you have it. Even I was surprised a little but I do know that things are not so rigid as they appear on paper between our special forces anymore.

I believe the goal is to "work" towards an Indian socom. That won't work with strict service rules and regimental values of the past.

The right way forward.

I mean, why can't we have a capable guy from coast guard finish the manesar course and get certified along with fellows from army or navy or Air force ? Question is here primarily of money and effectiveness. Why will a coast guard fellow need nsg training ? But to bar him cause he is from coast guard ? I don't see the point. I fail to.

He he...ranting..he wasn't a pilot. He looked the part of a special forces operator. Not a pilot. He talked about patrols and guns and stuff, not planes..

P.S. : we mostly talked politics, local, national..

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## The_Sidewinder

Nice read, although not detailed & with pictures collected mostly from facebook. Atleast kudos to the authot for trying.

8 Lesser Known Indian Special Forces That Are Among The Best In The World | india | Indiatimes Mobile

*8 Lesser Known Indian Special Forces That Are Among The Best In The World
By Shantanu Prasher | Posted on April 17,
2015

Soon after the Second World War, the need for highly trained soldiers was realised and
thus, the Special Forces were born. While thanks to Hollywood, most of us happen to know about the American Marines, Navy Seal and other American Special Forces are, it’s a
shame we hardly know about most of our own Indian Special Forces. Here’s a list of the Indian Special Forces that rank amongst
the best in the world.
1) MARCOS
MARCOS or Marine Commandos is India’s most lethal special force. Though they are trained to engage in battle on all terrains, MARCOS commandos are experts in maritime warfare. The physical test to join MARCOS is so gruesome that more than 80 percent of the applicants drop out in the first, three-day
long, physical fitness and aptitude test.
Those who successfully complete the test are subjected to a five-week-long process called the ‘hell’s week’ where commandos are put through extreme sleep deprivation coupled with the most difficult physical tasks. These commandos are even capable of firing while
lying down, standing, running full-sprint, even backwards and looking into a mirror – with a
reaction time of 0.27 seconds. The final stages of the training include an 800-meter long thigh-high mud crawl called the ‘death
crawl’, loaded with 25 kg of gear which is concluded with shooting a target 25 meters away with a man standing next to it.

2) Para Commandos:
Para commandos is one of the most highly trained special forces of the Indian Army.
Because of the extremely fatal nature of the operations they perform, they are kept at
optimum level of operational efficiency and physical fitness, and only the most physically
fit, mentally robust, intelligent, and highly motivated soldiers are inducted in the fleet. Para commandos go through the most
grueling commando training regimes in the world, apart from daily 20km runs with 60km
baggage and man-to-man assault practices; they even have to free fall from belligerent heights of as much as 33,500 feet. They are
also highly trained in terrain and environment warfare and deep sea diving. Their most notable and fatal operations included the
1971 war with Pakistan, the 1999 Kargil war
and the infamous Operation Bluestar in 1984.
3) Garud Commando Force:

With over 2000 commandos, the Garud Commando Force is a unit of the Indian Air Force and specializes in Airfield Seizure,
Special Reconnaissance, Airborne Operations,.Air Assault, Special Operations Combat
Search and Rescue, and counter insurgency. The training for being a Garud commando is
so tough that it can take up to 3 years to qualify as a fully operational Garud. Also, Garud commandos are extremely adept at anti-hijack and counter insurgency training, jungle and snow survival techniques,specialized weapon handling and advanced driving skills.
4) Ghatak Force
Ghatak force is a special operations infantry platoon that acts as shock troops and lead
man-to-man assaults ahead of a battalion.
They specialize in raids on enemy artillery positions, airfields, supply dumps and tactical headquarters while also being experts at directing artillery and air attacks on targets
deep within enemy lines. Only the most physically and mentally fit soldiers make it into the Ghatak force which is usually 20-men strong. Since they face the enemy face-to- face, they are trained to be undisputed at heli-borne assault, rock climbing, mountain warfare, demolitions, advanced weapons training, close quarter battle and infantry
tactics.
5) National Security Guard Or Black Cats:
Created in 1986, the NSG or Black Cats fall neither under Central Armed Police Forces
nor under Paramilitary Forces of India. It’s instead a mix of commandos from both the
Indian Army and Central Armed Police Forces which is lead by a ‘Director General’ from the Indian Police Service. Comprising two units –
the Special Action Group (SAG), which consists entirely of Indian Army personnel; and the Special Ranger Groups (SRG) for counter terrorism activities – the NSG is
equipped with some of the most advanced weapons in the world. The selection process is so brutal that it has a dropout rate of 70-80 percent. And the few, who qualify to become NSGs, are sent off to train for another 9 months to become Phantom NSG
Commandos.
6) COBRA (Commando Battalion for Resolute Action):
Commando Battalion for Resolute Action is probably the only Indian special force that is
specifically trained in guerilla warfare to tackle the notorious Naxalite groups in the country. A part of the CRPF, COBRA commandos are masters of camouflage, jungle warfare, parachute jumps, precision
strikes and ambushes. Their sniper units are also one of the best among the armed forces
of India.
7) Special Frontier Force:
Created on 14th November 1962, the SFF is a paramilitary special force which specializes in
special reconnaissance, direct action, hostage rescue, counter-terrorism, unconventional
warfare and covert operations. This specialized force was created in the wake of another Sino-Indian war and it operates in sync with RAW (Research and Analysis Wing).
The commandos are supremely trained in guerrilla tactics mountain and jungle warfare, and parachute jumps.
8.Force One
After the Mumbai terror attacks, the Maharashtra government brought together the best commandos and assembled the youngest Indian special force called Force One. The sole motive of this squad is to protect the Mumbai metropolitan area when under threat. Force One is one of the fastes response teams in the world and can get ready for action in less than 15 minutes From over 3000 applications, 216 of the best soldiers were selected who were then trained under close guidance from the Israeli Special Forces.*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> An IAF guy serving in NSG is not something I've heard of before but you met this guy so who am I to question? But and IAF guy serving in RR??
> 
> This just doesn't make sense. RR is an IA unit, why would IAF personnel be deputed to it?
> 
> Anyway, I can't comment on the validity of these claims because you spoke to the guy and not I, I am just very confused by the whole thing.
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


NSG,RR and SFF are for Indian Army personnel only.



janon said:


> He could be flying C-130s from Manesar. The IAF transports the NSG in helicopters and aircrafts. So that must be what he was doing with the NSG.
> 
> I'm guessing it was the same with RR. They have one para qualified unit, which obviously needs a transport aircraft.



IAF a/cs are not stationed at Manesar and RR dont do airborne operations even slithering is very very rare.


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## janon

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> IAF a/cs are not stationed at Manesar and RR dont do airborne operations even slithering is very very rare.


But they do have one para battalion, right?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

janon said:


> But they do have one paracommando battalion, right?


Yes sir they do.But one SF Company is deployed in Kashmir exclusively for airborne ops.The RR mostly does the foot ops and SG does the cross border raids.



Cat Shannon said:


> No, he wasn't a pilot. That much I am almost 100% certain.
> 
> I asked him garud, he said nsg. Twice. There you have it. Even I was surprised a little but I do know that things are not so rigid as they appear on paper between our special forces anymore.
> 
> I believe the goal is to "work" towards an Indian socom. That won't work with strict service rules and regimental values of the past.
> 
> The right way forward.
> 
> I mean, why can't we have a capable guy from coast guard finish the manesar course and get certified along with fellows from army or navy or Air force ? Question is here primarily of money and effectiveness. Why will a coast guard fellow need nsg training ? But to bar him cause he is from coast guard ? I don't see the point. I fail to.
> 
> He he...ranting..he wasn't a pilot. He looked the part of a special forces operator. Not a pilot. He talked about patrols and guns and stuff, not planes..
> 
> P.S. : we mostly talked politics, local, national..


It doesnt work that way here in India that a ranger can become pararescue.

What would have happened is that NSG takes crash courses for everyone from Garuds to SWAT teams and your friend will be part of one such crash course.Later he would have got deployed to Kashmir and would have trained in RR's COrps Battle School for a month.

Rest is just boasting.I remember one kashmiri SF operator had told his friends that he was part of 26/11..he wasnt.Sacrificed his life in kupwara with Major Mohit Sharma and his family claimed on tv that he was part of 26/11...they are humans too.

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## Neptune

Kudos to SPG. They seem to be well equipped, well trained, well supplied and ready to respond to any threat against Indian PM all around the globe.

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## Omega007

The_Sidewinder said:


> Nice read, although not detailed & with pictures collected mostly from facebook. Atleast kudos to the authot for trying.
> 
> 8 Lesser Known Indian Special Forces That Are Among The Best In The World | india | Indiatimes Mobile
> 
> 
> *1) MARCOS
> MARCOS or Marine Commandos is India’s most lethal special force. *



What load of bs,I stopped reading it right after this sentence.MARCOS is "India's most lethal special force!!Yeah right,only if wearing some tight fitting costumes and carrying some shiny gizmos could make one the best SF.


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## The_Sidewinder

Omega007 said:


> What load of bs,I stopped reading it right after this sentence.MARCOS is "India's most lethal special force!!Yeah right,only if wearing some tight fitting costumes and carrying some shiny gizmos could make one the best SF.



Hey don't shoot  the messenger 

Those lines belong to the authors, not mine. 

You can sue him if you like.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Omega007 said:


> What load of bs,I stopped reading it right after this sentence.MARCOS is "India's most lethal special force!!Yeah right,only if wearing some tight fitting costumes and carrying some shiny gizmos could make one the best SF.


I feel like asking people what determines your best?What criteria do you choose?

If its the training then the Army has the best schools..If its the experience then Army has the most experience..if its the bravery then Army has the most awards..if its the weapons Army got the Tavor,M4,Uzi before anyone else..if its the skill then the Army operator serves from siachen to thar..from nsg to UN.

Whats the criteria to name Marcos the best??

Anyways lets not get into this.Everyone knows SG is the cream of the crop and it comprises Para SF operators on deputation from 3-5 years.

Col. S Shekawat of 21 Para was the SG company commander and went on to command 21 Para.

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## Cat Shannon

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yes sir they do.But one SF Company is deployed in Kashmir exclusively for airborne ops.The RR mostly does the foot ops and SG does the cross border raids.
> 
> 
> It doesnt work that way here in India that a ranger can become pararescue.
> 
> What would have happened is that NSG takes crash courses for everyone from Garuds to SWAT teams and your friend will be part of one such crash course.Later he would have got deployed to Kashmir and would have trained in RR's COrps Battle School for a month.
> 
> Rest is just boasting.I remember one kashmiri SF operator had told his friends that he was part of 26/11..he wasnt.Sacrificed his life in kupwara with Major Mohit Sharma and his family claimed on tv that he was part of 26/11...they are humans too.




Well, maybe..possible !


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## Omega007

The_Sidewinder said:


> Hey don't shoot  the messenger
> 
> Those lines belong to the authors, not mine.
> 
> You can sue him if you like.



My post was not aimed against you,rather it was against the author,do rest assured.

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## Abingdonboy

The PM stopped his motorcade outside Delhi airport after arriving back from Canada:









They need to double his SPG detail, the man is a bloody lunatic!

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## special

The Yemen evacuees were given a warm welcome by the Indian Navy and other officials: MoD
marcos..

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF

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## Koovie

SELF DELETE


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Koovie said:


>


Pakistani soldier.


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## Koovie

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Pakistani soldier.



OOps  

Removed it


----------



## bloo

Read the caption of the pic.
Indian Marine Commandos[MARCOS]'s Photos - Indian Marine Commandos[MARCOS] | Facebook

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## special

bloo said:


> Read the caption of the pic.
> Indian Marine Commandos[MARCOS]'s Photos - Indian Marine Commandos[MARCOS] | Facebook



those written in hindi?? sorry, i'm not good in hindi. could you pls translate it to english for me?


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## bloo

special said:


> those written in hindi?? sorry, i'm not good in hindi. could you pls translate it to english for me?



At the risk of getting banned I'd rather not, but it is awesome.


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## special

bloo said:


> At the risk of getting banned I'd rather not, but it is awesome.



you can write its translation in my profile. you won't get banned... now i'm curious to know.


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## Koovie

special said:


> you can write its translation in my profile. you won't get banned... now i'm curious to know.



You can use Google Translate + some imagination


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
Old PIC




SPG OLD PIC




MARCOS OLD PIC

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## Abingdonboy

Indian Navy Chief Admiral R.K. Dhowan shakes hands with members of the Operation Rahat team onboard Indian stealth frigate INS Tarkash at the naval dockyard in Mumbai, India.

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## Levina

bloo said:


> Read the caption of the pic.
> Indian Marine Commandos[MARCOS]'s Photos - Indian Marine Commandos[MARCOS] | Facebook



Too good!!
Its my signature now.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

MARCOS OLD PIC[/QUOTE]


hkdas said:


> @SomeRandomSouthIndian, that radio set is also indian
> View attachment 211737
> 
> View attachment 211739
> 
> and bro, for you dough on sholder patch. take a look,
> View attachment 211745



This solves that.






This is the guy...A Marcos. He just happened to wear MARPAT.

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs during Yemani evacuation:
















INS Mumbai/Sumitra's own force protection units:


















COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is the guy...A Marcos. He just happened to wear MARPAT.


Lol, the notion he was Sri Lankan was absurd to begin with!


+ I'm sure there's an interesting story behind why he was wearing MARPAT that day.

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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> MARCOs during Yemani evacuation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INS Mumbai/Sumitra's own force protection units:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, the notion he was Sri Lankan was absurd to begin with!
> 
> 
> + I'm sure there's an interesting story behind why he was wearing MARPAT that day.




Link for the video?

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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> Link for the video?


Yemen Rescue: Meet the Navy's Knights in White


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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> Marcos at the Republic Day Parade at 26 Jan,2000.



bro, i posted that pics 3 days ago...

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## special

@Unknowncommando, bro, why did you delete that pics of marcos?? i posted that pics 3 days ago, it is not in this page anymore, when the admin,s restore this page after some malware attack. all the posts in past a week was deleted. 
you don't need to delete that pics...

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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> @Unknowncommando, bro, why did you delete that pics of marcos?? i posted that pics 3 days ago, it is not in this page anymore, when the admin,s restore this page after some malware attack. all the posts in past a week was deleted.
> you don't need to delete that pics...


Indian Navy Marcos during Republic day parade 2000





Thats why i posted that pic coz i have never seen that on this thread and i too posted that pic but was removed by admins k i will post it again.I usually dont post old pics i have seen all the pages before posting so i know weather the pic is posted b4 or not.





Indian Special forces

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## Tea addict

Unknowncommando said:


> Indian Navy Marcos during Republic day parade 2000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why i posted that pic coz i have never seen that on this thread and i too posted that pic but was removed by admins k i will post it again.I usually dont post old pics i have seen all the pages before posting so i know weather the pic is posted b4 or not.
> 
> View attachment 217561
> 
> Indian Special forces


the SFs guys takes part in parade too?


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## Unknowncommando

Tea addict said:


> the SFs guys takes part in parade too?


Yes they do mostly para sf of army. Marcos sometimes.

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> Yes they do mostly para sf of army. Marcos sometimes.



are you sure about that bro?? AFAIK there was no parade of marcos since 2001.

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


>


Sniper detail for Mr Obama's stay in Delhi.

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Sniper detail for Mr Obama's stay in Delhi.



is that SRG or SAG?? many FB pages says that they are phantom commandos!!!


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> is that SRG or SAG?? many FB pages says that they are *phantom commandos!!!*


Lol, they aren't . They are SAG- SRG don't have sniper teams.

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> Lol, they aren't . They are SAG- SRG don't have sniper teams.



why not?? SRG need snipers. and the protection duty and training is provided for SRG, they are good in CP duty. why use SAG as they are trained for CT operations.


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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> why not?? SRG need snipers. and the protection duty and training is provided for SRG, they are good in CP duty. why use SAG as they are trained for CT operations.


SRG are only used for close protection (static and mobile) roles i.e. the physical protection of the protectee, they do not engage in perimeter protection for their protectees- that is the responsibility of other agencies. When NSG sniper teams are required (it isn't that often) they are from the SAG. It isn't a massive drain on the SAG as the instances are few and far between and only require a few teams on those rare occasions.

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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> are you sure about that bro?? AFAIK there was no parade of marcos since 2001.


Yes bro i have seen marcos on the boats few times on the trucks which we see in R day parade used to carry scale models. Not actual parade but on this type of models u can see AKs and NEGEV lmg down there.

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> Yes bro i have seen marcos on the boats few times on the trucks which we see in R day parade used to carry scale models. Not actual parade but on this type of models u can see AKs and NEGEV lmg down there.


these models are shwon in R day, but why did they cancel the parade of marcos?? 
that AK needs ot be replaced.


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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> these models are shwon in R day, but why did they cancel the parade of marcos??
> that AK needs ot be replaced.


 Hope we will see them again on R day parade. Thats a good but need to be replaced. They have modified the aks by attacking railing system and using MARs red dot sights on them. The pic i posted is quite old tough. That aks dont have accessories.


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Yes bro i have seen marcos on the boats few times on the trucks which we see in R day parade used to carry scale models. Not actual parade but on this type of models u can see AKs and NEGEV lmg down there.


AFAIK this is a pretty old pic

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## 1 naga warrior

I think nsg should merge With the army sf so that they could b modelled in line of delta force purely for hostage rescue anti terrorist op and covert ops around the world.some portion of nsg have to be made available for domestic counter terrorism and covert ops with the ib.and they have to be extensively trained in close quarter and other tactics used by the army sf..at the same time we can raise swat like team trained by nsg group set for firsthand counter to terrorist .and if the needs arises nsg set for domestic purpose can come to the rescue of swats..they should actively hunt and pursue the terrorist with ib and other intelligence assets.we should not wait for something to happen and then to take action using nsg.we r not utillizing the force well.. its like they are waiting the whole damn year for some terrorist attack to happen and then to take the chrge..i say y not kill those terrorist before something to happen by hunting them everywhere that way we can use the force well


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## Abingdonboy

1 naga warrior said:


> I think nsg should merge With the army sf so that they could b modelled in line of delta force purely for hostage rescue anti terrorist op and covert ops around the world.


No.

The NSG is a sylvan counter terror force for internal CT operations, the Military SF are, rightly, separate and for external missions.

In the US Delta force is not meant to be used internally, for that there is the FBI HRT that can be compared to the NSG in role and operational duties.



1 naga warrior said:


> and they have to be extensively trained in close quarter and other tactics used by the army sf.



All military SFs in India are. 



1 naga warrior said:


> at the same time we can raise swat like team trained by nsg group set for firsthand counter to terrorist



Lol, so replace the NSG by SWAT teams trained by the NSG? What is the point in that??



1 naga warrior said:


> .we r not utillizing the force well



This is good news, if the NSG were being used every week there would be something very wrong going on in India as they are only used for the most extreme situations and thus if they were being utilised more that would mean India was effectively under siege. 



1 naga warrior said:


> its like they are waiting the whole damn year for some terrorist attack to happen and then to take the chrge


This is exactly their role, this is the point in having a last line of defence- you hope they never have to be used but they are ready and waiting should they be required. 

This is the entire point of units like the NSG, GSG-9, HRT, GIGN etc 




1 naga warrior said:


> .i say y not kill those terrorist before something to happen by hunting them everywhere that way we can use the force well



Well this would be ideal but the fact that the majority of such scumbags enjoy the overt protection of India's Western neighbour makes this rather impossible. But if that were to be tasked to a unit that would be the responsibility of the military SFs, the NSG is tasked with internal hostage rescue/CT duties that is all, they are not required to be trained in "snatch" or "kill" missions.



A few side notes:


- India's "Delta force" would be Special Group who have effectively been raised along the lines of Delta and are recruited from the best of the best SF operators in India and function directly under R&AW.
- Why India doesn't aggressively go after terrorist masterminds before they attack India is more to do with a lack of political will and other geopolitical considerations and not because the Indian military doesn't have the capability to do so.

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## 1 naga warrior

Abingdonboy said:


> ol, so replace the NSG by SWAT teams trained by the NSG? What is the point in that??


Well buddy i guess u did not read my post carefully.i did not say replace nsg by swat.i said just train the swat like nsg..so that the swat will be the first actor in case of any terror attack.and if the attack is big enough thn we can use the nsg set for domestic operations.


----------



## Major Shaitan Singh

“Plan your next move as every step contributes towards achieving your goal”’An Indian Army training team during exercises.#IndianArmyTraining

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## 1 naga warrior

Abingdonboy said:


> This is good news, if the NSG were being used every week there would be something very wrong going on in India as they are only used for the most extreme situations and thus if they were being utilised more that would mean India was effectively under siege


I know they are used for the most extreme situation..u dont need a 1500 strong sag for extreme situations.i kno india is big but if we train some swat like team on the line of nsg that much sag wont b required.say 500 of them should b used for snatch and kill outside the border ,dedicated hostage rescue like the army sf do.that wud also help the army sf to add like another battalion hence i said they shoud b brought under army command..and this special battalion will be a dedicated anti terroist, hostage rescue team for the army.and the rest 1000 sag can do the domestic operation.from this 1000 sag lets put few man on the ground inside our borders to pursue the terrorists and rest will b on standby for extreme situations...just my opinion



Abingdonboy said:


> - India's "Delta force" would be Special Group who have effectively been raised along the lines of Delta and are recruited from the best of the best SF operators in India and function directly under R&AW.
> - Why India doesn't aggressively go after terrorist masterminds before they attack India is more to do with a lack of political will and other geopolitical considerations and not because the Indian military doesn't have the capability to do so


I dont kno how sg operates nobody knows.they should have killed those killers sitting along the western border by now but they did not..but i guess most of their operation are still in kashmir ..they need to expand their area of work..they are very capable hence should utillize it..and our political leaders should rethink it now..


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## Unknowncommando

Indian Army PARA SF
@Abingdonboy these gifs are always better than the screenshots we take
Garuds

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## anyrandom

[video]




Modi's convoy in Canada.

Don't you think that's it's an extremely long convoy!

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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> [video]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modi's convoy in Canada.
> 
> Don't you think that's it's an extremely long convoy!


That's the motorcade for both the PM of Canada (Mr Harper) and Modi, they were travelling to the same destination.


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## 1 naga warrior

Does anyone have pics of itbp commandoes in afghanistan,their dressing ,kits etc,and how well they are trained..plz sshare


----------



## Abingdonboy

1 naga warrior said:


> Does anyone have pics of itbp commandoes in afghanistan,their dressing ,kits etc,and how well they are trained..plz sshare


Even if anyone had such information I would be most unwise to share such information with anyone else, especially not online, especially not on this website.

The 2014 Herat consulate attack should have made this abundantly clear. 

All we can surmise is they are very well trained and equipped for their role- their performance during said incident proves this beyond any doubt.

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## 1 naga warrior

Abingdonboy said:


> Even if anyone had such information I would be most unwise to share such information with anyone else, especially not online, especially not on this website.
> 
> The 2014 Herat consulate attack should have made this abundantly clear.
> 
> All we can surmise is they are very well trained and equipped for their role- their performance during said incident proves this beyond any doubt.


I understand.i just wanted to see a pic of itbp commandos .if u have any pics other thn those operationally deployed plz share and blurr the face.



Major Shaitan Singh said:


> “Plan your next move as every step contributes towards achieving your goal”’An Indian Army training team during exercises.#IndianArmyTraining


Are those soldiers from sf or from infantry?i see insas with every soldier..and sf rarely use insas...,,which unit bro?


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## Abingdonboy

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> “Plan your next move as every step contributes towards achieving your goal”’An Indian Army training team during exercises.#IndianArmyTraining






1 naga warrior said:


> Are those soldiers from sf or from infantry?i see insas with every soldier..and sf rarely use insas...,,which unit bro?


These aren't SF but regular infantry. 




1 naga warrior said:


> I understand.i just wanted to see a pic of itbp commandos .if u have any pics other thn those operationally deployed plz share and blurr the face.


I don't have any such pics bro, sorry.


----------



## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARINE COMMANDOS (MARCOS) ON INS VIKRAMADITYA




VIDEO


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## The_Sidewinder

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 219603
> View attachment 219604
> View attachment 219605
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARINE COMMANDOS (MARCOS) ON INS VIKRAMADITYA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIDEO



Awesome man.  Our cammandos looks kick a$$.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 219603
> View attachment 219604
> View attachment 219605
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARINE COMMANDOS (MARCOS) ON INS VIKRAMADITYA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIDEO



Awesome man.  Our cammandos looks kick a$$.

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## bloo

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 218892
> View attachment 218893
> View attachment 218894
> View attachment 218887
> 
> Indian Army PARA SF
> @Abingdonboy these gifs are always better than the screenshots we take
> Garuds
> View attachment 218898




Can you post video link?


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## special

bloo said:


> Can you post video link?











----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



.

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## Unknowncommando

Indian Navy Marcos

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 219673
> View attachment 219674
> View attachment 219675
> View attachment 219676
> View attachment 219677
> View attachment 219678
> View attachment 219679
> View attachment 219681
> 
> Indian Navy Marcos


bro, can you make these pics in bigger size?? it is too small.

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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> bro, can you make these pics in bigger size?? it is too small.


Gif files are most of time small bro.Yes i can make bigger too but if we wanna upload we can upload only upto 2 mb.so accordingly i adjusted the sizes of these files.

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> Gif files are most of time small bro.Yes i can make bigger too but if we wanna upload we can upload only upto 2 mb.so accordingly i adjusted the sizes of these files.
> View attachment 219915
> View attachment 219916
> View attachment 219918
> View attachment 219919
> View attachment 219920
> View attachment 219921
> View attachment 219922
> View attachment 219923



2mb is the limit in PDF?? then what about posting the links after you upload those gif files in somewhere else?? like posting the link after upload in Facebook.

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## 1 naga warrior

Why are we using te army special forces in kashmir..we should use nsg therre since they r the civilian anti terror force.and they should carry all those operations taking place in kashmir with the help of army..in the case of an encunter they should b the first torespond not army..army should b there to back up..we should not let nsg only a urban counter terror force..as most of the indian population reside in rural areas.i heard some stories of nsg in kashmir but they r not there now.hence the govt should change the tactics and training module of nsg or i guess they r trained for tht too so they should b utillized in kashmir wit the police and army..so that army sf can be used for external threats and ops near the border or out of the border

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## special

1 naga warrior said:


> Why are we using te army special forces in kashmir..we should use nsg therre since they r the civilian anti terror force.and they should carry all those operations taking place in kashmir with the help of army..in the case of an encunter they should b the first torespond not army..army should b there to back up..we should not let nsg only a urban counter terror force..as most of the indian population reside in rural areas.i heard some stories of nsg in kashmir but they r not there now.hence the govt should change the tactics and training module of nsg or i guess they r trained for tht too so they should b utillized in kashmir wit the police and army..so that army sf can be used for external threats and ops near the border or out of the border



NSG is also deployed in kashmir. but NSG cannot replace army SF in kashmir, both nsg and para SF are different units with different objectives. both have different skills and training. skills of army SF is more necessary for fighting insurgency in kashmir. 
not only army SF, navy SF, and SG are also deployed in kashmir.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

Gift from our Neighbors...
Huge cache of arms and ammunition recovered from Poonch (J&K)

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## Abingdonboy

I'm glad they don't take this sort of thing lightly:

Indian railways officer suspended over PM Narendra Modi car goof up | The Financial Express






Major Shaitan Singh said:


> Gift from our Neighbors...
> Huge cache of arms and ammunition recovered from Poonch (J&K)



No SF here bro.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF IN BARAMULLA
FAST HELMET with operator at front

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF IN BARAMULLA
> FAST HELMET with operator at front


is that pics is taken during samba attack ??

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCO IN JK
@special yes bro most probably that pic is from samba. I got these during random search on google.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS In sopore

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## Badbadman

Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN NAVY MARCO IN JK
> @special yes bro most probably that pic is from samba. I got these during random search on google.





Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS In sopore


Our normal soldiers should be ATLEAST equipped with this equipment.

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS In sopore


bro can you post the link to that news report??

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## Abingdonboy

Badbadman said:


> Our *normal* soldiers should be ATLEAST equipped with this equipment.


I think you mean "regular" soldiers bro, there is nothing "normal" about any soldier

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF IN BARAMULLA


@Abingdonboy, bro is that a FAST helmet?? i can't conform it. that pics is not clear.

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## Unknowncommando

special said:


> bro can you post the link to that news report??


Two Terrorists Killed in Encounter in Thakgund area of Rafiabad Sopore ….ExcelsiorAabid Nabi

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## special

_, it was nearly two months later that a letter was issued by the Army HQs to all *Command headquarters, the Integrated Defence Staff, Andaman and Nicobar Command*_*,* *Special Forces Command*, _*National Cadet Corps, Assam Rifles and Directorate General of Quality Assurance* on the manner in which the contribution was to be collected._

Kashmir Floods: Army Chief presented cheque for PMs relief fund in January, collection started in March | idrw.org


@Abingdonboy, @Unknowncommando
do we already have a special forces command??

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS IN SOPORE jk
@special bro dont know exactly about soc. But i think there must be something as we can see sfs of army and navy working together so may be not sure about it.

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> @Abingdonboy, bro is that a FAST helmet?? i can't conform it. that pics is not clear.


It looks like it to me- the chin strap gives it away.



special said:


> _, it was nearly two months later that a letter was issued by the Army HQs to all *Command headquarters, the Integrated Defence Staff, Andaman and Nicobar Command*_*,* *Special Forces Command*, _*National Cadet Corps, Assam Rifles and Directorate General of Quality Assurance* on the manner in which the contribution was to be collected._
> 
> Kashmir Floods: Army Chief presented cheque for PMs relief fund in January, collection started in March | idrw.org
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy, @Unknowncommando
> do we already have a special forces command??


AFAIK there is no such command to date, it is still pending approval from the GoI. Must be a misreport.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 222137
> 
> INDIAN NAVY MARCOS IN SOPORE jk
> @special bro dont know exactly about soc. But i think there must be something as we can see sfs of army and navy working together so may be not sure about it.


Awesome pics bro! but if they are this clear please can you be sure to blur out the faces of these operators? These are live CT ops, I don't think it needs to be said why such sensitive pics should be censored where possible.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> It looks like it to me- the chin strap gives it away.
> 
> 
> AFAIK there is no such command to date, it is still pending approval from the GoI. Must be a misreport.
> Awesome pics bro! but if they are this clear please can you be sure to blur out the faces of these operators? These are live CT ops, I don't think it needs to be said why such sensitive pics should be censored where possible.


I did that bro but there was something wrong with my phone was not able to upload that pics.thats why bro. Next time will upload by pc.

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## bloo



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## special

bloo said:


>


 marcos or para SF?? which unit is this?

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> marcos or para SF?? which unit is this?


I don't think they are Indian to be honest.

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## Unknowncommando

para sf some old pics

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## special

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't think they are Indian to be honest.


me too, that helmet is not used by indian forces and the cammo is different. that aircraft is not an-32 or il 76, but that is surly a cold war era USSR aircraft.

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> me too, that helmet is not used by indian forces and the cammo is different. that aircraft is not an-32 or il 76, but that is surly a cold war era USSR aircraft.


Nah, I'd say it was a fairly recent pic, maybe they are French? The camo seems to look similar to the French Army's.


@Gabriel92



Unknowncommando said:


> para sf some old pics


These were around the time the Indian SF first started using the Tavors so 7-8 years ago IIRC.

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## Gabriel92

@Abingdonboy Yes they are. (From the 17th Parachute Engineer Regiment.)

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## special

not sure if he is SF or not

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## Bornubus

Assam Forest Guards being trained by NSG

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

SILENCED MINI UZI
















INDIAN ARMY PARA SF COMMANDOS TRAINING WITH MINI UZI




HERE IS THE VIDEO LINK
SF GLIMPSES AT AROUND 6 TO 6.30 AND 9 TO 9.30

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## special

Home Ministry withdraws NSG security of Lalu Prasad Yadav and Chhattisgarh CM Raman Singh - The Economic Times

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 223190
> View attachment 223191
> 
> SILENCED MINI UZI
> View attachment 223192
> View attachment 223193
> View attachment 223194
> View attachment 223195
> View attachment 223196
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF COMMANDOS TRAINING WITH MINI UZI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS THE VIDEO LINK
> SF GLIMPSES AT AROUND 6 TO 6.30 AND 9 TO 9.30


Nice find ! ^^

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## special

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 223190
> View attachment 223191
> 
> SILENCED MINI UZI
> View attachment 223192
> View attachment 223193
> View attachment 223194
> View attachment 223195
> View attachment 223196
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF COMMANDOS TRAINING WITH MINI UZI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS THE VIDEO LINK
> SF GLIMPSES AT AROUND 6 TO 6.30 AND 9 TO 9.30



they looks like para(airborne) to me, that place is definitely not nahan, that place looks like Parachute Regiment HQ near Bangalore, where once dhoni had visited.




Dumkhum » Wanted to become a soldier, became cricketer – Dhoni
@Abingdonboy, @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 223190
> View attachment 223191
> 
> SILENCED MINI UZI
> View attachment 223192
> View attachment 223193
> View attachment 223194
> View attachment 223195
> View attachment 223196
> 
> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF COMMANDOS TRAINING WITH MINI UZI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS THE VIDEO LINK
> SF GLIMPSES AT AROUND 6 TO 6.30 AND 9 TO 9.30


Looks like a pretty old video to me- some interesting training going on there.

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## danish_vij

must watch

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## Unknowncommando

GARUD COMMANDOS INDIAN AIR FORCE

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUD COMMANDOS OLD PICS




SPG CAT

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## Viva India

Look at this thread SSG is among top 9 SF in the world as a SSG operator can Run 5 Miles in 20 Min with full Gear 

The 9 Most Elite Special Forces in The World


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## kbd-raaf

Viva India said:


> Look at this thread SSG is among top 9 SF in the world as a SSG operator can Run 5 Miles in 20 Min with full Gear.



No that is simply not possible. That would mean an average of 4 minutes per mile. The current world record is 3:43 seconds. 

Sileshi Sihine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The guy above has the world record for the 8000m (approximately 5 miles) at slightly over 21 minutes.

Are you trying to tell me that a bunch of soldiers with a 60kg pack is somehow much faster than a professional runner?

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## Viva India

kbd-raaf said:


> No that is simply not possible. That would mean an average of 4 minutes per mile. The current world record is 3:43 seconds.
> 
> Sileshi Sihine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The guy above has the world record for the 8000m (approximately 5 miles) at slightly over 21 minutes.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that a bunch of soldiers with a 60kg pack is somehow much faster than a professional runner?


Is it too hard to understand the Sarcasm.


----------



## kbd-raaf

Viva India said:


> Is it too hard to understand the Sarcasm.

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## Unknowncommando

Viva India said:


> Look at this thread SSG is among top 9 SF in the world as a SSG operator can Run 5 Miles in 20 Min with full Gear
> 
> The 9 Most Elite Special Forces in The World


Lol. Still look at condition of their nation. Terrorists everywhere. No one can judge any sf in the world. What is imp that are they keeping their nation safe. Ranking especially in military dont have any importance. After all a war can judge all the capabilities of a force. And plzz dont post these things on this thread. Stick to INDIAN SF bro. Coz things like this starts more arguments.













Indian Army Paratroopers





Para commando at CIJWs old pic

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

These are regulars and not SF as the Parachute regtt got Tavor very late.

India Tv also made a documentary on them.

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## special

we train palestine security forces???

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## Abingdonboy

special said:


> we train palestine security forces???


Was not aware of that! I've never heard the Israelis even hint at this (and they must know), India certainly likes to keep everyone on good terms but this is a bit far.




special said:


>




Awesome! Wish we could see a lot more pics from this camp.


In the last few years there has been a LOT more interaction/joint training/ops by the three SFs, the groundwork has been laid for the tri-service SOCOM, now they just need to clear it...

+ interesting how the A&N islands are becoming a playground for the SF community (MARCOs have been using it for years)- makes perfect sense.

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## kurup



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## Talwar e Pakistan

kbd-raaf said:


> No that is simply not possible. That would mean an average of 4 minutes per mile. The current world record is 3:43 seconds.
> 
> Sileshi Sihine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The guy above has the world record for the 8000m (approximately 5 miles) at slightly over 21 minutes.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that a bunch of soldiers with a 60kg pack is somehow much faster than a professional runner?



Its 30 minutes i think.


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## kbd-raaf

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Its 30 minutes i think.



1 hour would be more realistic, depending on the weight of the pack and the terrain. If unfavourable, 2-3hours.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

kbd-raaf said:


> 1 hour would be more realistic, depending on the weight of the pack and the terrain. If unfavourable, 2-3hours.


Bro, every morning REGULARS wear military back pack filled with bricks and are forced to jog laps around the cantonment(Probably around 8-12 miles) as punishment. The SSG train day and night for the 30 minute run.


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## kbd-raaf

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Bro, every morning REGULARS wear military back pack filled with bricks and are forced to jog laps around the cantonment(Probably around 8-12 miles) as punishment. The SSG train day and night for the 30 minute run.



And? 

You cannot compare a professional runner running on a purpose built track during perfect conditions with running gear to a soldier running in shitty conditions with minimal sleep and a 60kg+ backpack.

I know you want to believe the men protecting you are superhuman but they are not.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Unknowncommando said:


> Lol. Still look at condition of their nation. Terrorists everywhere. No one can judge any sf in the world. What is imp that are they keeping their nation safe. Ranking especially in military dont have any importance. After all a war can judge all the capabilities of a force. And plzz dont post these things on this thread. Stick to INDIAN SF bro. Coz things like this starts more arguments.
> View attachment 224327
> View attachment 224328
> View attachment 224331
> View attachment 224333
> 
> Indian Army Paratroopers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Para commando at CIJWs old pic


Condition of our nation? Terrorists everywhere?

Terrorists can only be found near the Afghan Border and now thanks to Operation Zarb e Azb they are running back to Afghanistan, TTP is now an endangered species here in Pakistan thanks to the SSG poachers. Within several years terrorism will become near extinct in Pakistan. Unlike many special forces who do ONE mission and are pampered afterwards and welcomed as heroes(*cough* taking down Osama), the SSG are constantly on the front fighting terrorism; no breaks, no nothing. The experience is why the SSG are one of the best.


----------



## Gessler

^^ Point is that the figures being quoted by your masters are bullsh!t. Most elite special forces of the world
follow similar, or much tougher, training routines. Anyway this is not the part of the forum to be discussing
other nations' special forces.


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## Umair Nawaz

Gessler said:


> ^^ Point is that the figures being quoted by your masters are bullsh!t. Most elite special forces of the world
> follow similar, or much tougher, training routines. Anyway this is not the part of the forum to be discussing
> other nations' special forces.


lol denial.

U cant be soo good so post feel good posts. Grapes are sour.


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## Koovie

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Bro, every morning REGULARS wear military back pack filled with bricks and are forced to jog laps around the cantonment(Probably around 8-12 miles) as punishment. The SSG train day and night for the 30 minute run.



There is no way that anyone is gonna run 5 miles (+8 kms!) within 30 minutes in full combat load. 

The best professional runners run 10k in around 27 mins (If I remember correctly)


----------



## The_Sidewinder

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol denial.
> 
> U cant be soo good so post feel good posts. Grapes are sour.



Your SSG are best in the world. They all are olympic record brokers. We accept it.

Now kindly spare the thread please.

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## Umair Nawaz

The_Sidewinder said:


> Your SSG are best in the world. They all are olympic record brokers. We accept it.
> 
> Now kindly spare the thread please.


lol kid, i dont accept her to be best in the world! it was just an exaggeration like them claiming ISI as best even better then CIA. I'll rather accept them in top 10 list but certainly not number 1. But yes when it comes to the resources u have and still not even in top 10 in special forces we as with little sources still mange to be in top 10 of both lists is commendable, specially when none of yr special forces make it to top 10 either that list is from yr current allies in America or europe.

So please dont try in comparing yr rusting forces with our in 'constant operational duties' forces.


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## Ajai Ghale

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol kid, i dont accept her to be best in the world! it was just an exaggeration like them claiming ISI as best even better then CIA. I'll rather accept them in top 10 list but certainly not number 1. But yes when it comes to the resources u have and still not even in top 10 in special forces we as with little sources still mange to be in top 10 of both lists is commendable, specially when none of yr special forces make it to top 10 either that list is from yr current allies in America or europe.
> 
> So please dont try in comparing yr rusting forces with our in 'constant operational duties' forces.


Beta your SSG paratroopers were beaten by Indian villagers with Danda failed in operation Qiyadat 1987 requested the Indian side to Mop up the dead Bodies.

Now don't compare your failed SF with even with our Regulars let alone SF when has more skilled and More experienced.

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## Umair Nawaz

Ajai Ghale said:


> Beta your SSG paratroopers were beaten by I*ndian villagers with Danda failed in operation Qiyadat 1987 requested the Indian side to Mop up the dead Bodies.*
> 
> Now don't compare your failed SF with even with our Regulars let alone SF when has more skilled and More experienced.




Sure kid, yr super duper lungi warriors armed with 'dunda' are awesome.

Get real kid!


----------



## The_Sidewinder

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol kid, i dont accept her to be best in the world! it was just an exaggeration like them claiming ISI as best even better then CIA. I'll rather accept them in top 10 list but certainly not number 1. But yes when it comes to the resources u have and still not even in top 10 in special forces we as with little sources still mange to be in top 10 of both lists is commendable, specially when none of yr special forces make it to top 10 either that list is from yr current allies in America or europe.
> 
> So please dont try in comparing yr rusting forces with our in 'constant operational duties' forces.



I am not comparing. The thread title says "Indian Special Forces". Please donot degrade you Top Notch SSG force by mentioning them alongside reg tag Indian Special Forces. Thank you.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Pakistan should send its SSG operators for 2016 Rio Olympics.

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## Ajai Ghale

Umair Nawaz said:


> Sure kid, yr super duper lungi warriors armed with 'dunda' are awesome.
> 
> Get real kid!


Son go ask the family of Muhammad Iqbal Hilal-e-Jurrat that how many days after his death they received his body when SSG failed to recapture Qaid Post in 1987.


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## Roybot

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Pakistan should send its SSG operators for 2016 Rio Olympics.



All the endurance running gold medals will be certain.

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## nik22

Umair Nawaz said:


> Sure *kid*, yr super duper lungi warriors armed with 'dunda' are awesome.
> 
> Get real *kid*!



Okay Kid! Feel happy about it.


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## Umair Nawaz

Ajai Ghale said:


> Son go ask the family of Muhammad Iqbal Hilal-e-Jurrat that how many days after his death they received his body when SSG failed to recapture Qaid Post in 1987.


Quaid post? that post is in Kargil or Siachin if im not wrong. And in Kargil we launched our operation in 99. And in Siachin the temps r sub zero. We had been trying to retake our territory in Siachin since 1984 to 1989. So that post post should be in siachin glacier which is un-populated because of its un survivable conditions for human life. 

BTW i didnt knew yr super duper lungi warriors and come of the places where -30 temp. is considered normal.

Kid take yr army's self created stories elsewhere.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Pakistan should send its SSG operators for 2016 Rio Olympics.


lol we even, may send them but where will u be?


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## The Great One

Umair Nawaz said:


> Sure kid, yr super duper lungi warriors armed with 'dunda' are awesome.
> 
> Get real kid!


they are pretty awesome.
They have been driving that danda up your a**es since independence.


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## Umair Nawaz

The Great One said:


> they are pretty awesome.
> *They have been driving that danda up your a**es since independence*.


 really? Because according to yr politicians since their existence its us who have been pain in yr ***.


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## The Great One

Umair Nawaz said:


> really? Because according to yr politicians since their existence its us who have been pain in yr ***.


Right.
Which is why you have been losing every single war with us.


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## Umair Nawaz

The Great One said:


> Right.
> Which is why you have been* losing every single war with us*.


lol in yr drams.


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## Ajai Ghale

Umair Nawaz said:


> Quaid post? that post is in Kargil or Siachin if im not wrong. And in Kargil we launched our operation in 99. And in Siachin the temps r sub zero. We had been trying to retake our territory in Siachin since 1984 to 1989. So that post post should be in siachin glacier which is un-populated because of its un survivable conditions for human life.
> 
> BTW i didnt knew yr super duper lungi warriors and come of the places where -30 temp. is considered normal.
> 
> Kid take yr army's self created stories elsewhere.
> 
> 
> lol we even, may send them but where will u be?


Son are you ashamed that Indian regulars, J&K light infantry captured Qaid post from your Superhuman SSG ?

Why are u evading my question tell me after how many days did Pakistan get the body of capt Mohm Iqbal SSG ?

And yes Indian army enjoy -30 as long as the land belongs to Pakistan

*Your Siachin our Soldiers*

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## The Great One

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol in yr drams.


Only if the Present is a dream.


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## Umair Nawaz

The Great One said:


> Only if the Present is a dream.


say whatever u like but the truth is truth.


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## The Great One

Umair Nawaz said:


> say whatever u like but the truth is truth.


I agree. We defeated you every single time.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol we even, may send them but where will u be?


We will be in Kashmir.

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## Umair Nawaz

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> We will be in Kashmir.


lol performance in olympics will reduce if we did that. No more gold medals.


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## Koovie

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol we even, may send them but where will u be?



You dont need us then... infact you wont need any competition, because no other human is gonna run 8 km in less than 30 mins with full combat load 

_My prediction is as follows:_

Gold: Pakistan

Silver: Pakistan

Bronze: Pakistan

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## The Great One

Umair Nawaz said:


> u lost 2 wars and a conflict against us!

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## Umair Nawaz

The Great One said:


>


lol like i said this aint yr country where we accommodate yr state fantasies, thats the real world kid!



Koovie said:


> You dont need us then... infact you wont need any competition, because no other human is gonna run 8 km in less than 30 mins with full combat load
> 
> My prediction is as follows:
> 
> Gold: Pakistan
> 
> Silver: Pakistan
> 
> Bronze: Pakistan


lol correction thats 11 miles in 30min according to that report that claimed SSG to be #1. But like i said its not a credible report nor i accept us to be #1 even better then American SFs with unlimited resources. However u should look at Physical Agility etc etc test for our standard army units.


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## Ajai Ghale

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol so there goes yr claim of dunda warriors in/of villages.
> 
> In siachin NLI is deployed ie Norther Light Infantry which was based on scouts as being a second line force not even regular regiment like yr so called JK regiment. It was just after the 99 kargil conflict's performance of her she was granted a first line force Regimental status. BTW this force is itself the one who caught yr army by its throat in 99.
> 
> The reason why i didnt mentioned abt capt iqbal is that i doubted that if that operation ever took place in the first place and so has been proved that yr dunda lungi warriors of villages beating SSG who is not deployed in Siachin's defensive duties is false!!!! So there is no question of M. Iqbal of SSG be it captain or major or col. etc.
> 
> Try harder kid with yr state fantasies.
> 
> BTW want to know abt SSG? Remember the faithful day of 26th november 2008? It is believed that those guys were trained by commandos.
> 
> And u know the rest or the incident in which 5 of yr soldiers got their heads missing!!!
> 
> That was also claimed by yr media as work of SSG and after that u never dared to cross the LOC or IB and raid at our posts. I dont have details of their ops in wars as their SSG's ops r kept secret, so please dont try to compare them with yr rusting forces.
> 
> 
> u lost 2 wars and a conflict against us!


Son even your state propaganda does not utter that BS.

1.Qaid post by manned by SSG under Subedar Atta Mohammad He along with others were died when J&K light infantry under Sub BaNa Singh Captured qaid op now known as Bana post.

2.Secondly we still occupy Tiger Hill and Siachin so how did your 40 kg NLI cought us by throat.

3.Sure your Army lost 12 Heads more than 10 than us.

Pakistan accuses India of 12 Kashmir beheadings since 1998: report - Pakistan - DAWN.COM


4.How many SSG died in small Lal masjid taj was a 7 star hotel Heck you can't even save your GHQ


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## The Great One

*SIgh*

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## Koovie

Umair Nawaz said:


> lol correction thats* 11 miles in 30min *according to that report that claimed SSG to be #1.




Ok that guy who wrote that must have been high 



Umair Nawaz said:


> However u should look at Physical Agility etc etc test for our standard army units.



They arent impressive.


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## Umair Nawaz

Ajai Ghale said:


> Son even your state propaganda does not utter that BS.
> 
> 1.Qaid post by manned by SSG under Subedar Atta Mohammad He along with others were died when J&K light infantry under Sub BaNa Singh Captured qaid op now known as Bana post.
> 
> 2.Secondly we still occupy Tiger Hill and Siachin so how did your 40 kg NLI cought us by throat.
> 
> 3.Sure your Army lost 12 Heads more than 10 than us.
> 
> Pakistan accuses India of 12 Kashmir beheadings since 1998: report - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
> 
> 
> 4.How many SSG died in small Lal masjid taj was a 7 star hotel Heck you can't even save your GHQ




1) LOl so where is capt iqbal? leave SSG aside first. Please make yr mind first that was it a officer capt iqbal or NCO subedar Atta deployed in Quaid post in Siachin. Like i said take yr state fantasies and yr army's bravado stories to those who buy them coz they dont know us. SSG like i said isnt deployed in defensive duties on posts in siachin. 

SFs r usually deployed in regional HQs in limited numbers for more complicated maneuvers in an offensive operation through out the world and we r no exception.

2) lol and i never said u dont. It was because of the weak political leadership u occupy the kargil sectors not because of yr military skills. BTW the most strategic peak and highest post in region is still under our control along with 3 other peaks ie point 5353. And NLI was our second line force back then against yr first line forces deployed there

3) LOL maybe but whats the performance in the kill ratio of skirmishes recently? And dont even dodge the 5 head less soldiers of yrs. At a single raid not one two or three but 5 of yr soldiers got their heads missing in a patrol party of around 40 men.
That was epic......... But i dont even have a proof of either, that did actually yr soldiers really lost their heads or was this a work of SSG as for both im just quoting what yr media had claimed.

4)Yes that operation in their long history of success is questionable where they lost i think 18? men. But its said that back then training emphasis was not that much on CQB (close quarter battle) and these guys didnt had a prior intelligence of the number of insurgents and the types weapons they had. According to the worlds of Brig (R) Javed of SSG who writes in express tribune, they were shooting blind and hence there were a lot of civilian casualties as well as SSG casualties. But the same man goes on to say that the success of this op proves that they still can over come this challenge even if they r shooting blind.

GHQ, well according to the same report which claimed SSG to be #1 had gave example of 2009's GHQ operation in which they save 200+? people who were taken hostage. But that was in those days when our forces as a whole were adapting of this new style of warfare and when they were done they took out 11 or 15 men in just 44 minutes in one of the most sensitive locations of pakistan ie Kamra airbase where JFT is manufactured.

While it took u some 72hrs to take out 9 men in mumbai saga. Also believed to be trained by SSGs.



Koovie said:


> Ok that guy who wrote that must have been high
> 
> 
> 
> They arent impressive.


Then ask him that who quoting his figures to me?

However that physical Agility.....test is real.

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## Ajai Ghale

LAMO you are dishonouring your own heroes look how we Indians returned the bodies of Your SSG with full military honour.

Here is the excerpts from* Fangs of Ice – Story of Siachen' by Lt Col Ishfaq Ali*

1."When the bodies of the Shuhada of Quaid OP were received at an Indian Outpost in the Holding Sector in the middle of July, it was a stirring spectacle. They had preserved the bodies with greatest care and respect knowing that the valiant ought to be honoured. Wrapped up in parachute cloth the bodies lay quite fresh in the beautifully prepared coffins on the top of which was written the holy Kalima. *They handed over the body of each Shaheed after giving it a general salute and the solemn ceremony concluded. The bodies were heli-lifted and immediately taken to their places of burial.*

There wasn’t a clean 2 inches of Atta’s body which was without any injury, his chest quite perforated with bullets. This is what lends some authenticity to the account of hat happened at the Top when Atta became its lone defender. *Bana Singh pays a rich tribute to the defenders of Quaid OP. “They were obstinate fighters and they fought hard” he confessed.*

When the body of Atta Muhammad reached Chak 125 of Sargodha for burial, a large assembly of people had already thronged there to take a last glimpse of the valiant custodian of their glory and honour. His commanders had recommended him for the highest gallantry award. Award of Sitara-e-Juraat was a mere token of recognition of his priceless service to his nation"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Capt. Iqbal led a SSG counter attack to recapture the Qaid/Bana post but failed.

This is from your Lt. Col Ishfaq Ali

_"The fall of Quaid Observation Post was an unfortunate blow to the valiant struggle and heroic resistance put up by Subedar Atta Muhammed, who while defending it fought till his last breath. 

_
"Nature stood vigil over his body. Immediately it showered flakes of snow that cloaked and shrouded his earthly remains and embalmed him in thick folds of ice. The ethereal spirits could visit him in his icy vault. When the snow began to melt the next rear, the Indians caught a glimpse of the crystal encasement of Capt Iqbal and his 13 companions. They tried to dig out their bodies but couldn’t. In* a flag staff meeting they agreed to let Pakistani soldiers retrieve them.* Nature delivered the bodies of these martyrs untainted and unsoiled to their kith and kin.

The ‘Namaz-e-Janaza’ of Capt Muhammad Iqbal, Shaheed, HJ, was performed in his village at Pashoon Ghari on 6 August 88. Thousands of admirers thronged to the funeral procession to catch a glimpse of his mortal remains and pay homage to this young and dauntless martyr who sacrificed his life for the honour of his motherland. He lies buried in the cemetery of Pashoonghari but his deeds of bravery continue to warm the hearts of his countrymen.







3.Beta who control tiger hill and Siachin the main objective of Kargil war ?

4.It was the beheading of 2 Indian jawans not five so we still outnumber your head by 10

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## Levina

@Abingdonboy 
what were Marcos guys doing in Kargil?


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> @Abingdonboy
> what were Marcos guys doing in Kargil?


I'm not sure they had a huge role in the Kargil war actually in Kargil- they were probably in their forward staging areas prepared for the possibility of the scope of the war expending beyond just Kargil.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm not sure they had a huge role in the Kargil war actually in Kargil- they were probably in their forward staging areas prepared for the possibility of the scope of the war expending beyond just Kargil.


But i read somewhere that it was after the success of kargil operations that Marcos was expanded...or something to that effect.


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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> But i read somewhere that it was after the success of kargil operations that Marcos was expanded...or something to that effect.


I can't comment on this @levina as I don't know what role the MARCOs had during the Kargil conflict (that's not to say they didn't have any role). Perhaps the MARCOs were expanded when it was realised how effective small elite teams could be (PARA (SF) played a critical role in this war).

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## SUDIP

Although not a SF stuff , apology in advance but a random search in youtube but found something interesting in the end of the video may be at 0.31 u can see a 12.7 hmg mounted on the mpv, its a first of a kind dat i encountered with a mounted HMG on a ground based vehicle other than tanks. Moreover the chaps are well equipped but they r not RR, Its seems like valley and may those are from JKLI . I spotted INSAS with ubgl and a passive night device. Gurus plz comment.


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## spectribution

SUDIP said:


> Although not a SF stuff , apology in advance but a random search in youtube but found something interesting in the end of the video may be at 0.31 u can see a 12.7 hmg mounted on the mpv, its a first of a kind dat i encountered with a mounted HMG on a ground based vehicle other than tanks. Moreover the chaps are well equipped but they r not RR, Its seems like valley and may those are from JKLI . I spotted INSAS with ubgl and a passive night device. Gurus plz comment.



The average IA trooper is very well equipped by modern standards. M1 style helmet capable of taking 9mm round or Patka protecting against 7.62 X 51 mm round. Level IIIA BPJ and good combat boots.

Webing is also improved and soldiers now using optics , attachments to INSAS rifles as needed during combat scenarios.


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## Koovie

spectribution said:


> The average IA trooper is very well equipped by modern standards



No they arent. 

M1 helmets, which are being replaced as we speak, are outdated and overweight helmets from WW2 which cant hold any equipment like NVGs. The ones which they are wearing now are lighter, but still insufficient. 
While I dont know the material of their uniforms, their camo pattern is outdated. 
Insas is also overweight and lacks features like full auto mode and only has 20 rounds of ammo. I cant see any optics on the AR variants too.
None of the jawans shown in the video wear BPJs, the standard BPJs in the IA are very heavy. Furthermore, none of them is wearing any knee protectors.

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## spectribution

Koovie said:


> No they arent.
> 
> M1 helmets, which are being replaced as we speak, are outdated and overweight helmets from WW2 which cant hold any equipment like NVGs. The ones which they are wearing now are lighter, but still insufficient.
> While I dont know the material of their uniforms, their camo pattern is outdated.
> Insas is also overweight and lacks features like full auto mode and only has 20 rounds of ammo. I cant see any optics on the AR variants too.
> None of the jawans shown in the video wear BPJs, the standard BPJs in the IA are very heavy. Furthermore, none of them is wearing any knee protectors.



Even PASGT can only protect against 9mm.

The only helmet capable of protecting against 7.62 X 51 mm effectively is PATKA.

For NVDs and other stuff. The thing can be mounted on the face. Specialized helmets are given to SOF only.

INSAS is damn accurate, reliable and a great standard rifle. Even the 30 round magazines from LMG can be used.
It has specs similar to Galil ACE and the latest polymer build is great in finish as well. Try 1B1 variant. It can mount multiple attachments like laser designator or red dot scopes as well as holographic sights and UBGL.

In the video it uses an older stock scope and a UBGL.

The Jawans are wearing BPJs but the tactical webbing, (green one) is obscuring it from view.
The Level IIIA jackets can stop 7.62s of all kinds. If you want lighter US style, you got to pay more and for a 1.2 mn army it's not affordable.

Nobody wears kneepads in regular skirmish. They can be hindrance to free leg movement. In tactical operations where you want greater "support", the kneepads are sometimes used.


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## gslv mk3

spectribution said:


> Try 1B1 variant. It can mount multiple attachments like laser designator or red dot scopes as well as holographic sights and UBGL.









This one ?

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## Koovie

spectribution said:


> Even PASGT can only protect against 9mm.



So? That does not cover the fact that the M1 is too heavy, uncomfortable and does not cover several areas on the head. The main purpose of modern helmets is to protect the head from debris, splinters, falls etc not bullets. 



spectribution said:


> For NVDs and other stuff. The thing can be mounted on the face.


Mounting NVGs on the face is new to me



spectribution said:


> INSAS is damn accurate, reliable and a great standard rifle. Even the 30 round magazines from LMG can be used.
> It has specs similar to Galil ACE and the latest polymer build is great in finish as well. Try 1B1 variant. It can mount multiple attachments like laser designator or red dot scopes as well as holographic sights and UBGL.



Insas does its job, but its not a world class rifle. The 30rd mag is not regularly used on AR, its production quality is still sub standard (Look at any high res picture), its still cannot fire in full auto mode, its still overweight and the vast majority still use iron sights. 

There is still much to do..



spectribution said:


> The Jawans are wearing BPJs but the tactical webbing, (green one) is obscuring it from view.
> The Level IIIA jackets can stop 7.62s of all kinds. If you want lighter US style, you got to pay more and for a 1.2 mn army it's not affordable.



I ve looked several times now... Nobody was wearing body armor. Kindly tell us the time when it appears in the video. 



spectribution said:


> Nobody wears kneepads in regular skirmish.



And this comes from? 

Good knee pads dont hinder your movement in any significant way. Even slight falls with some weight on you can injure your knees. And since its quite a complicated joint, injuries can go beyond repair. There is a reason why soldiers, athletes etc use them as standard kit.


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## alby

Yeah INSAS lacks full auto fire,2 round mag,no railings for mounting optics, heavier than almost all other ARs,also 99% lacks folding butts.
Just add ons like rails,option for full auto,folding butts,30 round mags will make it more user friendly and reliable.
Coming to PATKA ,it too is heavy,also it didnt gie protection to ears or back of head.


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## spectribution

Koovie said:


> So? That does not cover the fact that the M1 is too heavy, uncomfortable and does not cover several areas on the head. The main purpose of modern helmets is to protect the head from debris, splinters, falls etc not bullets.
> 
> 
> Mounting NVGs on the face is new to me
> 
> 
> 
> Insas does its job, but its not a world class rifle. The 30rd mag is not regularly used on AR, its production quality is still sub standard (Look at any high res picture), its still cannot fire in full auto mode, its still overweight and the vast majority still use iron sights.
> 
> There is still much to do..
> 
> 
> 
> I ve looked several times now... Nobody was wearing body armor. Kindly tell us the time when it appears in the video.
> 
> 
> 
> And this comes from?
> 
> Good knee pads dont hinder your movement in any significant way. Even slight falls with some weight on you can injure your knees. And since its quite a complicated joint, injuries can go beyond repair. There is a reason why soldiers, athletes etc use them as standard kit.



1. PATKA is replacing these helmets in most cases as I SEE IT. But modernised versions of these helmets will remain. PATKA can challenge a 7.62 X 51 mm round. No NATO helmet can do that effectively.

2.








[/URL][/IMG]



[/URL][/IMG]US assault rifles for Indian Army Special Forces units



3.










These are the newer models. Build quality looks fine.

4.





Take a close look at 1st soldier. It's hard to spot them.

5. In LRP you need less load. Carrying everything doesn't count. Kneepads add weight and restrict mobility. 
Look up US Army Afghanistan. Most wear one knee pads for their "stance" knee, no elbow pads. 
IA does use knee pads but only in urban combat ops. Refer to above pic by GSLV MK III



alby said:


> Yeah INSAS lacks full auto fire,2 round mag,no railings for mounting optics, heavier than almost all other ARs,also 99% lacks folding butts.
> Just add ons like rails,option for full auto,folding butts,30 round mags will make it more user friendly and reliable.
> Coming to PATKA ,it too is heavy,also it didnt gie protection to ears or back of head.








Current US army helmet being issued.


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## Koovie

spectribution said:


> 1. PATKA is replacing these helmets in most cases as I SEE IT. But modernised versions of these helmets will remain. PATKA can challenge a 7.62 X 51 mm round. No NATO helmet can do that effectively.



1.)Nope, the helmet shown in the video are replacing the WW2 M1s, not the patkas. Patkas have their advantages, but they do not protect the top of the head (Falling debris!), the lower back parts of your head and your ears ! 

Again, protection from direct bullet hits is not the main purpose of modern helmets. The chance of getting injured/killed by debris, splinters, trauma etc is much higher than receiving a direct bullet hit into your upper parts of your skull.

2.) Not saying that the build quality hasnt improved at all... it has! But its still sub standard. But the main problems are still its ergonomics, weight etc 
Furthermore, most IA troops dont have any optics

3.) Again, good knee pads dont restrict movements nor do they add any significant weight.... Outdated helmets, BPJs, overweight rifles etc etc etc are far far far more concerning than knee pads, which weigh nothing compared to the stuff mentioned above.



spectribution said:


> .



FAST helmets are normally issued to SF units only. And the gap is meant for communication equipment.

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## alby

Light weight BPJ with shock absorbing plates ,light boots,hollowgraphic optics,hands free commn. sets,night vision googles are a must for a 21st century common infantry man .
Its a good thing that we are seeing some Eoctech holloowgraphic sights with Aks of RR.

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## alby

The new black BPJ seems to be much sleeker and lighter than the old ones.Did any one have any info?Is it manufactured by private firms like MKU?


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## spectribution

alby said:


> Light weight BPJ with shock absorbing plates ,light boots,hollowgraphic optics,hands free commn. sets,night vision googles are a must for a 21st century common infantry man .
> Its a good thing that we are seeing some Eoctech holloowgraphic sights with Aks of RR.



It's about economy. Larger army = less priority on core infantry.


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## pakdefender



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## spectribution

Koovie said:


> 1.)Nope, the helmet shown in the video are replacing the WW2 M1s, not the patkas. Patkas have their advantages, but they do not protect the top of the head (Falling debris!), the lower back parts of your head and your ears !
> 
> Again, protection from direct bullet hits is not the main purpose of modern helmets. The chance of getting injured/killed by debris, splinters, trauma etc is much higher than receiving a direct bullet hit into your upper parts of your skull.
> 
> 2.) Not saying that the build quality hasnt improved at all... it has! But its still sub standard. But the main problems are still its ergonomics, weight etc
> Furthermore, most IA troops dont have any optics
> 
> 3.) Again, good knee pads dont restrict movements nor do they add any significant weight.... Outdated helmets, BPJs, overweight rifles etc etc etc are far far far more concerning than knee pads, which weigh nothing compared to the stuff mentioned above.
> 
> 
> 
> FAST helmets are normally issued to SF units only. And the gap is meant for communication equipment.



BPJ is actually lightweight nowadays as it a stripped down plate carrier than the bulky ones used few years ago.
PATKA is heavy but needed as it gives much needed survivability. 






If helmet was for debris, then it is doing fine job, the ww2 m1s. Nowadays new ones as in video is used.

INSAS is more comparable to FN FNC than ultra modern SCAR H or TAR 21. For that kind of sleek gun OFB has tried it's hand with this 






It is the new rifle for MHA forces.



pakdefender said:


> View attachment 228434

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## Koovie

spectribution said:


> BPJ is actually lightweight nowadays as it a stripped down plate carrier than the bulky ones used few years ago.
> PATKA is heavy but needed as it gives much needed survivability.



Those soldiers in the video were definitely not wearing body armor. And as you can see from your pic, the patka does not protect the ears and the lower back area of the head. Furthermore it does not give top cover. 

The new helmets do also not provide adequate protection for ears but are much lighter than the older M1s. 




spectribution said:


> INSAS is more comparable to FN FNC than ultra modern SCAR H or TAR 21. For that kind of sleek gun OFB has tried it's hand with this



INSAS is absolutely not in the same league of the Tavor...

Its heavier, bad ergonomics, larger, less ammo, no inbuilt optics, worse build quality etc etc etc... 

Why do you think do SF units prefer it over the INSAS?


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## me_itsme

pakdefender said:


> View attachment 228434



Why most of you Pakistanis so cheap and low?


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## alby

Wish to see Ex calibre rifles replacing INSAS as it is more sleek with option for optics and light.Been with some regular infantry regiments in small quantities.
And AKs and VZs need to be upgraded .


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## spectribution

me_itsme said:


> Why most of you Pakistanis so cheap and low?



Low budget less goodies, more butthurt!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Para SF again conduct cross border raids and this time officialy.

PARA SF FTW!!

Bolo chatri wali mata ki jai!!

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## spectribution

Koovie said:


> Those soldiers in the video were definitely not wearing body armor. And as you can see from your pic, the patka does not protect the ears and the lower back area of the head. Furthermore it does not give top cover.
> 
> The new helmets do also not provide adequate protection for ears but are much lighter than the older M1s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INSAS is absolutely not in the same league of the Tavor...
> 
> Its heavier, bad ergonomics, larger, less ammo, no inbuilt optics, worse build quality etc etc etc...
> 
> Why do you think do SF units prefer it over the INSAS?



PATKA saves you from a bullet. Other just protect from debris. If a sniper wants to hit me with a dragunov round, I'd always prefer a PATKA. Lighter PATKA 's are now available as well. Even full covered ones.











ops-core: FAST Ballistic High Cut (XP) Helmet

Bullet Proof Patka

Weight of PATKA 1 - 1.3 kg
Weight of FAST 800 gm - 1 kg

Extra 200 - 300 gm is worth it for survival in CQB with militants armed with AKs.

INSAS is a standard rifle. Tavor is a carbine essentially. However INSAS other "Sexier" versions like :




















Build quality looks really good now.

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## Koovie

spectribution said:


> PATKA saves you from a bullet. Other just protect from debris. If a sniper wants to hit me with a dragunov round, I'd always prefer a PATKA. Lighter PATKA 's are now available as well. Even full covered ones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ops-core: FAST Ballistic High Cut (XP) Helmet
> 
> Bullet Proof Patka
> 
> Weight of PATKA 1 - 1.3 kg
> Weight of FAST 800 gm - 1 kg



*The chance of getting injured/killed by splinters, shrapnel, trauma, debris.. etc is much much higher than getting shot in the small are that is covered by a helmet/patka.* Apart from that, the vast majority of soldiers are trained to aim for bigger areas of the body. 




spectribution said:


> INSAS is a standard rifle. Tavor is a carbine essentially. However INSAS other "Sexier" versions like :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Build quality looks really good now.



Not really, both the Tavor and INSAS fire the same ammo and have similar muzzle velocities, yet the Tavor is lighter, handier, has better in built optics etc etc 

And again, I am not saying that there hasnt been any improvements, but saying that we are at world class level is simply wrong


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## Unknowncommando

50 NSCN (K) Slain in a x border surgical strike by Special Forces. All insurgents resp for ambush on 6 Dogra eliminated. 21 PARA (Cdo) & IAF launched the op. Kudo.Airborne strike on Mi17 by SfIts a matter of great pride for our regiment that 21 SF has led the retribution against the NSCN K for the ambush.
Bold operation by Indian Army: Many militants involved in Manipur ambush neutralised in Myanmar - The Economic Times

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> 50 NSCN (K) Slain in a x border surgical strike by Special Forces. All insurgents resp for ambush on 6 Dogra eliminated. 21 PARA (Cdo) & IAF launched the op. Kudo.Airborne strike on Mi17 by SfIts a matter of great pride for our regiment that 21 SF has led the retribution against the NSCN K for the ambush.
> Bold operation by Indian Army: Many militants involved in Manipur ambush neutralised in Myanmar - The Economic Times



I am so proud that we took such a bold step and now we should use drones and satellites to find more camps and destroy them once and for all.Killing 50 rebels with a team of 20-40 men in such raids and not having casualties shows how highly the units standards are.

What this also proves is @Abingdonboy that like i told you a Para SF unit is given a specialty of an area like 21 SF is in NE for last 8-9 years and 10 Para aka Desert scorpions is in Rajasthan for desert raids and 9 Para for kashmir.

9Para and SFF cross train.

and lastly Army only calls anyone but armymen for special operations.This is because they believe they can do it and only this can raise the morale of the soldiers.

What we lacked today was PR team to highly publicise the operation using helmet camera and feed from the drones which could put in real fear in our enemies heart.

The best weapons are those which are never used.Fear is a great weapon.

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## sathya

We need to engage our neighbours and shut down any support that the terrorists are getting .

Element of surprise was* Cross border* action, which the enemy might not have anticipated
Leading to a high success .. Giving terror to terrorists

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## Koovie

Damn, I`d pay for some footage or pics of that raid!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Incase,some of us are like..'who were these guys'..watch this.

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## Tea addict

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Incase,some of us are like..'who were these guys'..watch this.


i have watched it before....their CO SS Shekhawat is already the most decorated serving soldier in the indian army..after this he and his unit has cemented a special place in indian SFs history.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Tea addict said:


> i have watched it before....their CO SS Shekhawat is already the most decorated serving soldier in the indian army..after this he and his unit has cemented a special place in indian SFs history.


Yeah..in 2009 they did the amphibious raid on a insurgent camp and now this.

The 1st and 9th Para were known for their mettle and now they too have joined them.

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## Sneaker

Koovie said:


> *The chance of getting injured/killed by splinters, shrapnel, trauma, debris.. etc is much much higher than getting shot in the small are that is covered by a helmet/patka.* Apart from that, the vast majority of soldiers are trained to aim for bigger areas of the body.



I read some report which said majority of Indian soldiers died due to head shots. Can't find the link now.. will try..


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## Koovie

Sneaker said:


> I read some report which said majority of Indian soldiers died due to head shots. Can't find the link now.. will try..



Unlikely... think about it: How much is the headarea which is covered by the helmet if you look at a person from the front? 
Not much... probably just around 1/3 of the head (If you look at a person frontally) and much much much less compared to the rest of the body. 

Now ask yourself how many people are taught to aim for these very small areas? 
Not many either. 

How much is the chance of hitting someone into the forehead in a real combat situation (Which is NOT like in video games or movies)
Very small.

Now compare this to the chance of getting hit by shrapnel, stuff falling down (happens quite a lot in war) or somebody simly falling down (Even the simplest falls on your head can put you out of action) 

Its all about compromises between protection and mobility/comfort... and in this case, the latter ones win, as shown by almost every military force in the world.


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## Sneaker

Koovie said:


> Unlikely... think about it: How much is the headarea which is covered by the helmet if you look at a person from the front?
> Not much... probably just around 1/3 of the head (If you look at a person frontally) and much much much less compared to the rest of the body.
> 
> Now ask yourself how many people are taught to aim for these very small areas?
> Not many either.
> 
> How much is the chance of hitting someone into the forehead in a real combat situation (Which is NOT like in video games or movies)
> Very small.
> 
> Now compare this to the chance of getting hit by shrapnel, stuff falling down (happens quite a lot in war) or somebody simly falling down (Even the simplest falls on your head can put you out of action)
> 
> Its all about compromises between protection and mobility/comfort... and in this case, the latter ones win, as shown by almost every military force in the world.



http://medind.nic.in/maa/t09/i2/maat09i2p103.pdf

You need not hit head precisely. I am very skeptic that patka can save one from direct sniper head shot... concussion wounds would be sufficient for death. You also need to account for modus operandii of terrorists. They can't fight IA face to face hence go for ambush..


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am so proud that we took such a bold step and now we should use drones and satellites to find more camps and destroy them once and for all.Killing 50 rebels with a team of 20-40 men in such raids and not having casualties shows how highly the units standards are.
> 
> What this also proves is @Abingdonboy that like i told you a Para SF unit is given a specialty of an area like 21 SF is in NE for last 8-9 years and 10 Para aka Desert scorpions is in Rajasthan for desert raids and 9 Para for kashmir.
> 
> 9Para and SFF cross train.
> 
> and lastly Army only calls anyone but armymen for special operations.This is because they believe they can do it and only this can raise the morale of the soldiers.
> 
> What we lacked today was PR team to highly publicise the operation using helmet camera and feed from the drones which could put in real fear in our enemies heart.
> 
> The best weapons are those which are never used.Fear is a great weapon.


The problem is the mentality of the SFs is to be almost invisible and to avoid publicising their operations where possible.


I 100% agree the IA higher ups need to use these opportunities to showcase the abilities of their operators and the Indian military as a whole.

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## spectribution

Koovie said:


> Unlikely... think about it: How much is the headarea which is covered by the helmet if you look at a person from the front?
> Not much... probably just around 1/3 of the head (If you look at a person frontally) and much much much less compared to the rest of the body.
> 
> Now ask yourself how many people are taught to aim for these very small areas?
> Not many either.
> 
> How much is the chance of hitting someone into the forehead in a real combat situation (Which is NOT like in video games or movies)
> Very small.
> 
> Now compare this to the chance of getting hit by shrapnel, stuff falling down (happens quite a lot in war) or somebody simly falling down (Even the simplest falls on your head can put you out of action)
> 
> Its all about compromises between protection and mobility/comfort... and in this case, the latter ones win, as shown by almost every military force in the world.



By your logic we should watch out for Pakistani bowlers tan bullets in war!



Koovie said:


> *The chance of getting injured/killed by splinters, shrapnel, trauma, debris.. etc is much much higher than getting shot in the small are that is covered by a helmet/patka.* Apart from that, the vast majority of soldiers are trained to aim for bigger areas of the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, both the Tavor and INSAS fire the same ammo and have similar muzzle velocities, yet the Tavor is lighter, handier, has better in built optics etc etc
> 
> And again, I am not saying that there hasnt been any improvements, but saying that we are at world class level is simply wrong



By your logic even tin buckets would suffice. But IA extensively uses PATKA in ops. Why?

You need foreign investment and massive domestic orders for an Indian Tavor. But if orders are large this happens :







Excalibur in IA service











Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 - The Times of India

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> using helmet camera and feed from the drones which could put in real fear in our enemies heart.


I would pay for this privilege 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------





One of the SPG's 760Lis in BD:







Sorry to say it but the SSF (BD's SPG equivalent) who formed part of the security cover of the PM's visit to BD (alongside the SPG) look very amateurish from all I have seen of them during the coverage of this visit.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The problem is the mentality of the SFs is to be almost invisible and to avoid publicising their operations where possible.
> 
> 
> I 100% agree the IA higher ups need to use these opportunities to showcase the abilities of their operators and the Indian military as a whole.



Ya bro.

30 minutes in and out time and no casualty plus the operation being carried out in low visibilty in the early morning hours using NVG in a terrain with hills and thick foliage is pretty good.


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## SUDIP

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/608475315845914626


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## Hephaestus

SUDIP said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/608475315845914626



I don't think this a real or related pic....

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## Levina

Dont know if this video has been posted here before...

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## Water Car Engineer



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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> I would pay for this privilege
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the SPG's 760Lis in BD:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to say it but the SSF (BD's SPG equivalent) who formed part of the security cover of the PM's visit to BD (alongside the SPG) look very amateurish from all I have seen of them during the coverage of this visit.



Sir, the reasons?

Also I didn't see any SPG CAT? Given that situation in BD is volatile with lots of modi hating islamists, he should have gone there with much higher number of SPG personnels. In the videos I only saw a few SPG agents and he was overwhelmingly surrounded by SSF personnels.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


>


This is a dhruv which was not part of the operation.

I think the theory of 'insertion' which the Army has given is flawed.

They guys would have crossed the border and waited all night for the attack helos for CAS in the morning.

Army says its operators carried out rappeling at dawn which would be risky and if they carried out the rappeling with no light then it is almost impossible to do so with NVG in this thick folliage.

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## Water Car Engineer

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is a dhruv which was not part of the operation.
> 
> I think the theory of 'insertion' which the Army has given is flawed.
> 
> They guys would have crossed the border and waited all night for the attack helos for CAS in the morning.
> 
> Army says its operators carried out rappeling at dawn which would be risky and if they carried out the rappeling with no light then it is almost impossible to do so with NVG in this thick folliage.




It's not related to the op, but never the less a good pic. With a Dhruv Mark 3 in the background.

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## W@rwolf

Water Car Engineer said:


> It's not related to the op, but never the less a good pic. With a Dhruv Mark 3 in the background.



Do you know any details about this pic? Many are circulating the same, wrongly associating it with the ops.

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## Koovie

Sneaker said:


> http://medind.nic.in/maa/t09/i2/maat09i2p103.pdf
> 
> You need not hit head precisely. I am very skeptic that patka can save one from direct sniper head shot... concussion wounds would be sufficient for death. You also need to account for modus operandii of terrorists. They can't fight IA face to face hence go for ambush..



Interesting read, never saw it before. 
Any information on the distribution of non lethal injuries? That would give us a bigger picture.



spectribution said:


> By your logic even tin buckets would suffice. But IA extensively uses PATKA in ops. Why?



Tin buckets are heavy, uncomfortable, etc.. while Patkas are the opposite of that.

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## Water Car Engineer

W@rwolf said:


> Do you know any details about this pic? Many are circulating the same, wrongly associating it with the ops.



None, just heard the same reports that it's not related.

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## bipi@342

Why Modi stays at Hotel Sonargaon | Dhaka Tribune

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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> Sir, the reasons?



Reasons for what bro?


QUOTE="anyrandom, post: 7256364, member: 142551"]Also I didn't see any SPG CAT? Given that situation in BD is volatile with lots of modi hating islamists, he should have gone there with much higher number of SPG personnels. In the videos I only saw a few SPG agents and he was overwhelmingly surrounded by SSF personnels.[/QUOTE]


anyrandom said:


> Sir, the reasons?


SPG CAT would be there but they do a god job of keeping out of sight (like the USSS's CAT but unlike the SSF's). In a foreign country the number of local security officers will always be more than the number of SPGs personnel on the ground but if you look closely those closest to the PM are always SPG. There will be a lot more SPG than is immediately apparent travelling with the PM on a foreign visit- if you watch the video of the PM arriving in BD you can see a lot of SPG guys streaming out the back of the BBJ on touch down (via the rear doors).



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is a dhruv which was not part of the operation.
> 
> I think the theory of 'insertion' which the Army has given is flawed.
> 
> They guys would have crossed the border and waited all night for the attack helos for CAS in the morning.
> 
> Army says its operators carried out rappeling at dawn which would be risky and if they carried out the rappeling with no light then it is almost impossible to do so with NVG in this thick folliage.



What I think happened is the helos inserted the operators a few km from the objectives and the teams ingressed on foot and called the helos in for extraction once their mission was complete. This is pretty similar to how the SEALs learnt to operate post-2003 with the Green Berets/Delta preferring more aggressive tactics such as being flown onto the target and fast roping in.

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## danish_vij

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is a dhruv which was not part of the operation.
> *
> I think the theory of 'insertion' which the Army has given is flawed.
> 
> They guys would have crossed the border and waited all night for the attack helos for CAS in the morning.*
> 
> Army says its operators carried out rappeling at dawn which would be risky and if they carried out the rappeling with no light then it is almost impossible to do so with NVG in this thick folliage.


yes u are right by bolded part.....it in news now tht they entered on foot and air support was available in morning

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

danish_vij said:


> yes u are right by bolded part.....it in news now tht they entered on foot and air support was available in morning



Woo i am a genius and i figured out that part when i was on the toilet seat this morning. 


> What I think happened is the helos inserted the operators a few km from the objectives and the teams ingressed on foot and called the helos in for extraction once their mission was complete. This is pretty similar to how the SEALs learnt to operate post-2003 with the Green Berets/Delta preferring more aggressive tactics such as being flown onto the target and fast roping in.



The whole thing of 30 to 45 mins in and out is flawed and only the media can be fooled by this.

This is being said for the media to not make it a international issue.

And the media is like when we do this on Pakistan..Damn man these guys have no fxking idea about anything.Pakistans whole concentration of air defence is on western border not eastern and the US has stealth helos.It is fcking impossible to do any air insertion in Pakistan.The best method to do this in Pakistan is by having James Bond type of people or shooters disguised as civilians and mind you it will be a one way ticket.

The media has made Para Commando their favourite child now and now they say Para SF is the best and are like Sierra lone to Myanamar Para SF rocks...hahaha.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Both active and effective: A short history of Indian Special Ops | The Indian Express

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## alby




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

alby said:


>


Like i said Dhruv were not involved and this doesnt seem like a post operation victory pic.They are too less equipped for a operation like that.

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## alby

And the duration of just 45 minutes in which 100 are killed is too hard to digest unless SF used jet packs to descend over the camps and carpet bombing was used prior the attack.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

alby said:


> And the duration of just 45 minutes in which 100 are killed is too hard to digest unless SF used jet packs to descend over the camps and carpet bombing was used prior the attack.


For that you got to slither overhead the camp draw enemy fire and kill and injure a lot of operators.Too much is hidden.


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## alby

True.Also even before the so called operation, it was all over the media that 21st PARA is going to attack militant hide outs inside myanmar with in days.In reallife would any terrorist wait for a special force to come and attack them.Security forces will hold their positions what ever came against them,but will a guerilla out fit will show such a blunder that too after drawing that much heat ?
Just shooting something which is in my mind for some days


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

alby said:


> True.Also even before the so called operation, it was all over the media that 21st PARA is going to attack militant hide outs inside myanmar with in days.In reallife would any terrorist wait for a special force to come and attack them.Security forces will hold their positions what ever came against them,but will a guerilla out fit will show such a blunder that too after drawing that much heat ?
> Just shooting something which is in my mind for some days


That is because they had no other option and they really thought India would not cross the border.

I believe this encounter genuinely took place.But i think the planning and tactics was different.

More is still to come as this was just the foreplay according to sources.I believe not much will be publicised now but nevertheless the approach will continue to be ruthless because one team has burnt the entire camp after killing everyone there.

A large amount of fire power had to be brought if 100 men had to be killed in 30-45 mins specially NE insurgents coz they are far superior than the punjabi jihadi in Kashmir.


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## alby

Yeah.The weaponry,tactics and their performance against our army are always far better when compared with the LeT and other kashmiri terrorist organisation.

Plus thorough knowledge of topography too had always been in favour of N.E extremists.
Hope the real story concerning the units involved shouldn't come any time soon as we had read what had happened to Seal Team 6 recently after US acknowledged it was ST-6 behind the OBL assassination.


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## W@rwolf

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Like i said Dhruv were not involved and this doesnt seem like a post operation victory pic.They are too less equipped for a operation like that.



The Dhruvs were indeed used for the ops. But only part of the team rappelled down.

Here's my take on the entire operation, step by step.

1. 57th Mountain Division and Assam Rifles were pressed into action following the ambush. These troops trained specifically in Guerrilla warfare were sent out on foot in order to flush the militants out towards their base camps near the border.


2. Intelligence Agencies and a few forward elements of the 57th pinpoint the insurgent base camp on the Myanmar border. The Myanmar Govt. is secretly brought into the loop while the Operation is being planned by the 21st Para SF.


3. IAF deploys a C-17 to Imphal carrying logistical supplies and additional troops. Meanwhile Mi-35 Hinds equipped for night operations are prepped by the Air Force following authorization for deployment by the PMO.


4. Para SF troops are inserted behind Myanmar lines from where they leg to cut off the escape route. At the same time, additional SF troops press on from the Indian side in an attempt to sandwich the two base camps between the two teams. This is done because deploying the ALH directly over the base as the troops rappel down increases the risk of a shoot down because that is when the helicopters are most vulnerable.


5. The Hind gunships are launched to provide CAS and also to spook the militants into rushing out of the base camp into a lethal ambush organised by the Para SF around the camp with specific kill zones for the fire teams covering the camp as well as the escape routes.


6. Additional operations going on in the state by the AR and regular Army troops had already led to the militants being on their nerves. This was a major distraction as the Para SF readied for the Op as the Militants never expected a raid to come so soon, expecting the Army to engage and slowly advance, allowing them time to make an escape if need be.


7. The Hinds arrive on station alerting the Insurgents to break camp to escape. The surrounding jungles erupt with gunfire as the Para SF begins to open up , gunning down the militants who try to put up a fight or escape.


8. The 21st then swiftly move in directly to flush out the remaining insurgents inside the camp while the Hinds provide fire support and take out any stragglers in the surrounding foliage.


9. 30 to 40 minutes into the raid, the two base camps are smoldering ruins as the Paras conduct their Post-Op assessment of the area and pick out any survivors left. Meanwhile the Helicopters are back on station to extract the troops after a satisfying operation with zero friendly casualties.


10. Damage Assessment done, The Troops are flown back for a De-Brief as the Army continues to engage the remaining insurgents scattered across the state.

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## special operation

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @alby @Abingdonboy @danish_vij @Water Car Engineer
i know this is not the right place to as this question, but i didn't find any other appropriate thread for asking this...

how did US special forces manage to sit in a helicopter like this without falling form it??

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## Gessler

special operation said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @alby @Abingdonboy @danish_vij @Water Car Engineer
> i know this is not the right place to as this question, but i didn't find any other appropriate thread for asking this...
> 
> how did US special forces manage to sit in a helicopter like this without falling form it??



Seatbelts?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

special operation said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @alby @Abingdonboy @danish_vij @Water Car Engineer
> i know this is not the right place to as this question, but i didn't find any other appropriate thread for asking this...
> 
> how did US special forces manage to sit in a helicopter like this without falling form it??


Ok..On the little bird there are ramps with belts or safety harness so that you dont fall off.And on the black hawks the harness is enough.


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## special operation

Gessler said:


> Seatbelts?


where is the seat belt??


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok..On the little bird there are ramps with belts or safety harness so that you dont fall off.And on the black hawks the harness is enough.


but i don't see any seat belts in there....
and look how the chopper is flyining.. is that harness is enough for sitting?? they are not just sitting, they will also shoot form the helecoptor. so shooting at a target while you are sitting in balance is very difficult and the accuracy will be considerably reduce.


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## alby

@special operation please type "
*Can you sit on the side of a helicopter and not be pushed of by G-forces*
" in google and you will get an anwer



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ok..On the little bird there are ramps with belts or safety harness so that you dont fall off.And on the black hawks the harness is enough.


I am afraid those vietnam era choppers don't have any safety belts.

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## special operation

alby said:


> @special operation please type "
> *Can you sit on the side of a helicopter and not be pushed of by G-forces*
> " in google and you will get an anwer
> 
> 
> I am afraid those vietnam era choppers don't have any safety belts.


most of them says the gravity will help them sit like that. but this isn't only about sitting... the SF soldiers shoot the target when they are sitting in the chopper. this is not possible in little bird if they are just sitting on on it in balance, look how they are sitting. and the gravitational force will be reduced/compensated by centrifugal actiion when the chopper suddenly change the direction. so at the time there is a high chance for skidding.
in training US forces use seat belts... but not in the actual combat

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

alby said:


> @special operation please type "
> *Can you sit on the side of a helicopter and not be pushed of by G-forces*
> " in google and you will get an anwer
> 
> 
> I am afraid those vietnam era choppers don't have any safety belts.


Its attached to the back of the belt you cant see it.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special operation said:


> most of them says the gravity will help them sit like that. but this isn't only about sitting... the SF soldiers shoot the target when they are sitting in the chopper. this is not possible in little bird if they are just sitting on on it in balance, look how they are sitting. and the gravitational force will be reduced/compensated by centrifugal actiion when the chopper suddenly change the direction. so at the time there is a high chance for skidding.
> in training US forces use seat belts... but not in the actual combat




Actual missions: 

US marines and Pak soldiers on a Chinook during flood relief operations in Swat valley;









Watch the safety hook behind the soldiers.

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## special operation

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Actual missions:
> 
> US marines and Pak soldiers on a Chinook during flood relief operations in Swat valley;
> 
> View attachment 229427
> View attachment 229428
> 
> 
> Watch the safety hook behind the soldiers.


that is not a SF operator. that kind of belts cannot be attacked to a SF operator in black hawk and little bird. they are sitting on the door to rapidly exit the chopper when the drop zone is reached, so this kind of belts will slow them down. 
those kind of belts are seen on every loadmaster on C-17, C-130, chinook, and almost every heavy transport planes. i was talking about the SF operator sitting on black hawks and little bird,


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special operation said:


> that is not a SF operator. that kind of belts cannot be attacked to a SF operator in black hawk and little bird. they are sitting on the door to rapidly exit the chopper when the drop zone is reached, so this kind of belts will slow them down.
> those kind of belts are seen on every loadmaster on C-17, C-130, chinook, and almost every heavy transport planes. i was talking about the SF operator sitting on black hawks and little bird,



Same thing there are attached to a safety harness.. Otherwise how do you think they can fire while the heli is taking evasive manoeuvres,...

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## special operation

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Same thing there are attached to a safety harness.. Otherwise how do you think they can fire while the heli is taking evasive manoeuvres,...


but didn't saw any belts when they exit the chopper..


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special operation said:


> but didn't saw any belts when the exit the chopper..



Coz it's easy to push the release button thingy before you hit the ground that's why... I've seen these harness things myself so yes they "exist"
Even the door gunners on army helis use similiar "belts"...

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## special operation

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Even the door gunners on army helis use similiar "belts"...


do you know anyone who have conducted heliborne operations with US SF??


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## DESERT FIGHTER

special operation said:


> do you know anyone who have conducted heliborne operations with US SF??



Yes .. But the guy was on a "Spooky"... Not a heli.. But I've seen ou helis equipped with these harnesses ... The door gunner again uses the same stuff ..

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Recasting India’s Special Forces | Center for the Advanced Study of India

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## special operation

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Recasting India’s Special Forces | Center for the Advanced Study of India



more or less the same matter in Gen. P. C. Katoch's book. "India's Special Forces: History and Future of Special Forces". since 2012 MoD is saying the J-SOC will be set up within 6 months, now this is 2015 and the J-SOC is nowhere near reality.


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## Badbadman




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## Koovie

Badbadman said:


>



Old one

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## Badbadman

Koovie said:


> Old one


Damn NDTV! just posted the other day.

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## Unknowncommando

probably ghatak unit 
pic from ex gurj prahar

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## special operation

guys, i am unable to post pics in indian military page.. i don't know to whom i should report, so i post this pics in here. i don't see any other suitable pages for posting this pics. i am more than happy if any one of you guys post this pics in indian military page.. if you post this there i will delete this from here.




ARMY ORGANISED MEDICAL CUM VETERINARY CAMP
In continuation with Army’s efforts to provide health care to people of remote areas of South Kashmir, Army under the aegis of Chinar Corps organized a medical cum veterinary camp at Sungaln Panchalthan in Anantnag District on 15 Jun 15. People from this remote area have to travel long distance to avail of medical facilities at designated medical hospital. A team of two Army and three Civilian doctors attended to the medical problems of the people. The Army provided free medicines to the patients. Veterinary treatment for animals was also provided. A total of 452 medical and 84 Vet patients were examined during the camp


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## special operation

COAS VISITS JOINT EXERCISE AJEYA WARRIOR 2015
Gen Dalbir Singh,COAS visited Salisbury Plains Training Area, United Kingdom (UK) to witness the ongoing Joint Exercise Ajeya warrior 2015 between the armies of India and UK. The aim of this Exercise is to build and promote positive military relations between Indian and UK Army and to enhance their ability to undertake joint tactical level operations in Counter Insurgency/ Counter Terrorism Environment under United Nations Charter.


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## special operation

PM meets Army crack team that raided Myanmar | idrw.org

Just like they entered Myanmar unannounced on June 9 to attack the hiding north-eastern origin rebels, the 21 Para Special Forces (SF) unit of the Indian Army entered the high-security zone of Lutyen’s Delhi couple of days ago, albeit on an invitation.

This time, however, they had been invited by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who met the crack team of commandoes to “pat them on their backs” and know for himself the work done in Myanmar, sources told The Tribune about the visit of the commandoes to Lutyen’s Delhi – the seat of the Central Government.

On June 9, the 21 Para SF had entered Myanmar to carry out a surgical strike on two camps of the north-eastern rebels hiding in the neigbouring country and killed some 60 of the rebels in a retaliatory strike. The rebels, on June 4, led by the Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (K) had killed 18 Armymen and injured 11 in an attack in Manipur.

The figure of 60 deaths of rebels is what had been conveyed by various Central agencies to the Government. The team of some 45-50 of the 21 Para SF met the PM and in attendance were senior-most officers of the Army’s Eastern Command. Photos were clicked but none made public so far as the SF units are anyway shy of the camera.
The PM spent a ‘fair amount’ of time in talking to the officers and men about the operations and congratulating them. For the Army, it was a first, in recent years, that the PM called in to meet an operational team. Interactions between the PM and men on the ground – are largely limited to PM’s visits to border areas. The team of commandoes go by their colloquial name ‘Waghnakh’ – ‘Tiger’s Claw’.

The 21 Para had originally been a Maratha unit of the Army hence carry the Marathi colloquial name. Each of the officers and men are trained in jungle warfare and use one of the finest weapons and equipment available globally. The PM had also met the team of CRPF commandoes christened as ‘Cobra’ they had killed 12 maoists in an encounter in Jharkhand on June 8.

.



.India’s special forces | Requesting anonymity | idrw.org

In the early hours of 9 June—it was 3.30am, according to a first-person account—two teams of commandos from 21 Special Forces of the Indian Army launched a surgical strike at the India-Myanmar border, targeting militants who had killed 20 of their fellow armymen in Manipur four days ago.

The entire operation, codenamed Operation Peace, lasted just 15-20 minutes, though the men had trekked for two days on foot, covering a distance of almost 30km to reach their target. They then trekked back nearly 9km before being airlifted by Air Force helicopters.

It was a daring operation that was showcased by the Indian media as a “hot pursuit warning” to Pakistan. But it’s also the kind of operation that the special forces commandos train for—day in and day out. And hot pursuit of terrorists into neighbouring territories is not all that unusual.The elite special forces, as their name indicates, are trained to carry out highly sensitive and dangerous missions that by their very nature are localized and intense. These are men who are trained to high degree of expertise in unconventional warfare, including in harsh terrains —jungle warfare, for instance.

Every army has its special forces, the two most famous being the US Navy SEALs and the British SAS commandos. In India, they are trained to combat internal and external threats, thus serving both a military and political objective.

“India has several special force outfits, some under direct command of the army, some under ministry of home affairs and some more under the cabinet secretariat. This is not taking into account the special forces that have been set up by the paramilitary arms,” says major general (retired) S.K. Chakravarty, a former division commander in Jammu and Kashmir.

In the Indian context, the term special forces is used almost exclusively for a handful of battalions of the para-regiment.The first para commando battalion was raised in 1966, and, by 1968, it was split into two—9 Para (Special Forces) and 10 Para.

“9 Para was meant for Jammu and Kashmir whereas 10 Para was meant for border operations in Rajasthan,” says colonel (retd) K.D. Pathak, a 1971 war veteran and an ex-para himself.
The first test of the Para special forces came with Operation Mandhol in the western sector during the 1971 war over Bangladesh.
Pakistan had artillery guns positioned near Mandhol village in Poonch and 9 Para were tasked with a stealth mission to?destroy them. Pathak, then a young captain, was part of a team of around 100 men that carried out the operation, completing it in less than 24 hours.The Myanmar operation was carried out by 21 Special Forces, which was set up in the 1990s from the 21st battalion of the Maratha regiment.

The other special forces in the country’s arsenal are the Indian Navy Marine Commandos, the Indian Air Force’s Garud Commando Force and the National Security Guard (NSG).“The need for more special forces was felt as warfare was evolving. Rather than battles, it is more about swift strikes with immediate withdrawal, and we felt the need to focus on that,” says Pathak.

The NSG, for instance, was set up after Operation Blue Star to flush out militants from inside the Golden Temple in Amritsar, Punjab, in 1984. “Several weaknesses came to the fore during Blue Star. All our equipment, our tactics were trained for an offensive role against the enemy. We were not prepared for close-quarter battles in urban areas. The need for an anti-terrorist force was felt then,” says Pathak.

While the NSG comes under the home ministry, its men are drawn from the armed forces. It is subdivided into Special Action Groups (SAG) and, at any given point in time, 100 men can be mobilized at half-an-hour’s notice. The NSG was called upon to deal with the hijack of Indian Airlines flight IC-814 to Kandahar, Afghanistan, in 1999 and the terrorists who attacked multiple public targets in Mumbai on 26 November 2008.

After the 26/11 attacks, the forces came under criticism for not responding quickly enough.“During 26/11, the team was at the airport within hours but we had to wait for an aircraft, which finally came from Chandigarh,” explains a serving brigadier.According to him, following the attack that killed 164 people and injured 308, NSG has been authorised now to requisition any aircraft during an emergency.

There is also the Special Frontier Force, which includes the army’s Vikas Regiments that comprises Tibetans.
“Every special force unit is separately tasked and trained accordingly. Every threat has its own contours,” says Chakravarty. For instance, Jammu and Kashmir has more than two special force battalions and the personnel are trained to operate in the mountainous terrain specific to that region, including entering and exiting enemy territory on foot and by air.

Commandos of the 21 Special Forces, which was involved in the Myanmar attacks, specialize in jungle warfare.
These are elite forces: the training period for any special force comprises an initial nine months and then specialized training for the region they will be deployed to. It is not uncommon for nearly 50% of the aspirants to drop out during the initial training regime.

“The training is very extensive and physically very exhausting. Even when posted in the conflict region, a special force unit is always undergoing mock drills and operations in order to maintain its readiness. From carrying 40kg loads to surviving on a limited ration of just dry fruits to communicating only through throat clearing signals, it’s very gruelling,” explains a retired 10 Para officer.

But even a successful operation is no guarantee against political controversy. The world over, details of covert operations are almost never let out, certainly not in the days and weeks after the operation.
But following Operation Peace, the Indian political establishment, in a bid to score political points, chose to ignore this basic principle, and gleefully trumpeted details of the operation. “Forget the name of the battalion or the men involved or anything, the operation (itself) shouldn’t have been made public. This is not the first time a mission of this sort has been undertaken, and it won’t be the last time, but special operations by their very nature are to be devoid of any chest-thumping,” says the serving brigadier cited above, who has commanded a special force battalion.

The hand of Indian special forces in cross-border operations is usually never confirmed but it is sometimes hinted at.Operations such as the one in Lanjote, a Pakistani village near the Line of Control (LoC), whose inhabitants still remember a bloody night from 2000 when 16 villagers were found hacked to death. Found near the bodies, according to a report in The Indian Express, was an Indian-made wristwatch and a hand-written note: “how does your own blood feel”.

The report acknowledges that these details are not substantiated.“Pakistan has always maintained that Indian special forces were behind that act but India has never acknowledged it. The fact remains that Hindus were being massacred in Doda and Rajouri (in Jammu and Kashmir) and this could well have been a retaliatory strike,” says military historian Mandeep Bajwa.

But while there is no doubting the bravery of the men who are part of the special forces, there are factors that hamper their functioning.
“One of the cornerstones of a successful operation is intelligence gathering, and this is something we still fall short of,” explains a serving colonel.
“Everyone wants to know if India can conduct a raid similar to that in Abbottabad (Pakistan), which led to Osama bin Laden’s capture (by US commandos) and subsequent death, but we are yet to establish a system which collates and interprets intelligence of that kind. Just equipping the boys with the best equipment is not enough. You should know your exact hit area, the number of people to expect, their state of readiness, the retaliatory action expected in order to minimize your casualties.”

India’s failure to prevent hijackers from flying the IC-814 out of Indian soil in 1999 is cited as one of the biggest failures of the special forces—they just could not be mobilized in time.“As in the case of Mumbai, it was a complete administrative failure,” says the colonel cited above.

In response, there has been a growing demand for a centralized command structure for the special forces. A panel set up in 2011 under former cabinet secretary Naresh Chandra made a similar suggestion but fears of loss of turf among different forces have led to this recommendation not being accepted.

“The lack of a central command structure means orders are delayed, and response is haphazard, rather than being seamless,” says the serving brigadier.“We can only hope that the political class, which was so keen to take the credit for the Myanmar operation, will understand this need also.”


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## SecularNationalist

Another worthless thread started by some fan boy.These so called special forces were slaughtered by sandal wearing malnourished rebels few days ago.

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## Sneaker

SecularNationalist said:


> Another worthless thread started by some fan boy.These so called special forces were slaughtered by sandal wearing malnourished rebels few days ago.


Wrong thread. Isn't about SSG...

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

SecularNationalist said:


> Another worthless thread started by some fan boy.These so called special forces were slaughtered by sandal wearing malnourished rebels few days ago.


And the salwar suit wearing taliban took the entire 6th balouch hostage.

Dying is better than surrendering my friend.

And the soldiers who died were infantry.

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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> probably ghatak unit
> pic from ex gurj prahar



Cant see the pic


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## nik22

Koovie said:


> Cant see the pic


Not using specs? 
I can see.


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## special operation



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## Bornubus

SecularNationalist said:


> Another worthless thread started by some fan boy.These so called special forces were slaughtered by sandal wearing malnourished rebels few days ago.


Beta you are that same Retard who are obsessed with Indians specially Sikhs ...why ..?..bcz you weaklings miss their rule or is it your 35th Punjab suffered huge casualties in Tirah Campaign few months Ago ..the Same Tirah where our Gurkha and Sikhs successfully subdued pathan Rebellion and took them prisoners.

Regarding recent Ambush on Dogras it was the *first in several decades *including Kashmir ....Indian Army have not suffered as much casualty in North East since 70s than Pak Army since 2002...Even your GHQ and Naval Bases are not Safe ... Remember How bunch of wannabees destroyed your tiny fleet of P3.

Had Northeast been the Part of Pakistan your Army would have lost it like East Pakistan after surrendering to Few thousand Rebels.

So before start trolling as a little Troll you are ....*Compare Pak and Indian Soldiers from Same Kargil* *War*

A Jat from Rajputana Rifles took two bullets in his chest after scaling a vertical Cliff by Rope and eventually captured *point 4590* by killing few infiltrators with his bare hands.
*



*











Not more than *50 KG* *Pakistani soldiers* from the same kargil war











P:S..Now tell me Honestly .... Could these Pakistani soldiers stand against Indians in *Hand to Hand *combat for more than 5 mins ?

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## Kinetic

SecularNationalist said:


> Another worthless thread started by some fan boy.These so called special forces were slaughtered by sandal wearing malnourished rebels few days ago.




Yes they died, because they don't know what is surrendering unlike you. You mastered this. Shame!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Kinetic said:


> Yes they died, because they don't know what is surrendering unlike you. You mastered this. Shame!


I feel proud of the fact that Indian soldiers have choosen death before dishonour each and every time and specially the SF.

Indian SF is a highly successful force with no failures but a little high casualty in 84 operations.

And that record speaks for itself when they have conducted raids from Africa to Myanamar.

Over the past 30 years our success was in Sierra Lone,Myanamar,Pakistan,Sri Lanka,Maldives etc.

Our SF is not rated anywhere but if the ones which are rated have conducted operations like Pathankot air drop surrender and Lal Masjid plus surrendered against taliban....I laugh at such a list and will wipe my *** with it.

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## bloo



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## Agent_47



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## alby

Made in China......Instead they could have gone for made in Russia though chinese comes almost free with only some exxpense of M43 rounds.

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## K M Cariappa

You know Special Frontier Force is mentioned individually in the 2nd schedule of the RTI Act, 2005 which exempts Central agencies from furnishing information under RTI application... RAW has also been mentioned individually thus it seems SFF is an all together independent agency though RAW exercises control over its missions...

http://www.rtiindia.org/guide/where-you-cannot-apply-rti-6/second-schedule-of-the-rti-act-2005-13/


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## Zarvan

Bornubus said:


> Beta you are that same Retard who are obsessed with Indians specially Sikhs ...why ..?..bcz you weaklings miss their rule or is it your 35th Punjab suffered huge casualties in Tirah Campaign few months Ago ..the Same Tirah where our Gurkha and Sikhs successfully subdued pathan Rebellion and took them prisoners.
> 
> Regarding recent Ambush on Dogras it was the *first in several decades *including Kashmir ....Indian Army have not suffered as much casualty in North East since 70s than Pak Army since 2002...Even your GHQ and Naval Bases are not Safe ... Remember How bunch of wannabees destroyed your tiny fleet of P3.
> 
> Had Northeast been the Part of Pakistan your Army would have lost it like East Pakistan after surrendering to Few thousand Rebels.
> 
> So before start trolling as a little Troll you are ....*Compare Pak and Indian Soldiers from Same Kargil* *War*
> 
> A Jat from Rajputana Rifles took two bullets in his chest after scaling a vertical Cliff by Rope and eventually captured *point 4590* by killing few infiltrators with his bare hands.
> *
> View attachment 230701
> *
> 
> View attachment 230705
> 
> 
> View attachment 230709
> 
> 
> Not more than *50 KG* *Pakistani soldiers* from the same kargil war
> View attachment 230706
> 
> 
> View attachment 230707
> 
> 
> 
> P:S..Now tell me Honestly .... Could these Pakistani soldiers stand against Indians in *Hand to Hand *combat for more than 5 mins ?


No they can't because your soldier won't be standing after a minute


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## Omega007

alby said:


> Made in China......Instead they could have gone for made in Russia though chinese comes almost free with only some exxpense of M43 rounds.



Pikas do not make use of M43!!


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## RPK



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## Ajai Ghale

IS Beard not allowed during Republic Day parade above Pic of Para in beard and they look Badasses in that.



K M Cariappa said:


> You know Special Frontier Force is mentioned individually in the 2nd schedule of the RTI Act, 2005 which exempts Central agencies from furnishing information under RTI application... RAW has also been mentioned individually thus it seems SFF is an all together independent agency though RAW exercises control over its missions...
> 
> http://www.rtiindia.org/guide/where-you-cannot-apply-rti-6/second-schedule-of-the-rti-act-2005-13/


SFF took part in kargil war along with 22 Grenadiers (all Muslim unit)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ajai Ghale said:


> View attachment 234776
> 
> View attachment 234777
> 
> 
> IS Beard not allowed during Republic Day parade above Pic of Para in beard and they look Badasses in that.
> 
> 
> SFF took part in kargil war along with 22 Grenadiers (all Muslim unit)


Beard is only allowed in field areas.

There is no ALL muslim or ALL Hindu unit.

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## Ajai Ghale

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Beard is only allowed in field areas.
> 
> There is no ALL muslim or ALL Hindu unit.


Sorry I meant to say it was the Muslim Company of 22 Grenadiers under Col. Ajit Singh.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ajai Ghale said:


> Sorry I meant to say it was the Muslim Company of 22 Grenadiers under Col. Ajit Singh.


I never heard of that.

What the story is that soldiers were wearing green cloth on their helmets and saying Allah hu Akbar which confused the enemy and they thought their own men have brought the reinforcements.

Grenadiers like the Guards and Para is a ALL India battalion.It doesnt distinguish on the base of religion,region and caste.

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## Ajai Ghale

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
India today honored the following Grenadiers
in the capture of Khalubar Ridge & Batalik sector.
--
Source: Hindustan Times dt 07/11/99

(The following believers in Islam were soldiers in *M company, 22nd
Grenadiers)*

*Grenadiers Riasat Ali, Zuber Ahmed, Hussain Ali Khan, Hassan Mohammad,
Mohammad Ishaq Khan
Lance Naiks Ahmad Ali, Zakir Hussain, Abid Khan
CQMH Annuruddin*

(Others honored were

Hav Brij Bhushan Tiwari and Sep Pramod Kumar
Major Sarvanan - "Hero of Batalik"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

When Allah-O-Akbar was the victory chant of Indian soldiers in Batalik.

Here is the story of the brave sacrifice of the M company, 22nd
Grenadiers.

Source: Indian Express dt 07/10/99

BATALIK, JULY 9: It appeared to be a no-win situation for the Army on
*Peak 5250* near the Khalubar ridge in the Batalik sub-sector. But only
till the determined Muslim Company of 22 Grenadiers decided to launch
an aggressive attack and repulse the Pakistani intruders. The valiant
Muslim company -- which fought for full three days -- could not have
completed it without the active *support of 1/11 Gurkha Rifles.*
The enemy forces, occupying the strategic heights, were repulsing every
attack, often just by hurling boulders down at the advancing army. The
Charlie Muslim Company, led by Major Ajit Singh, was given the task of
recovering the peak. Leading a *team of 30 *brave soldiers, he launched
an offensive under the cover of darkness.

They advanced on Peak 5250 to lead a fierce attack but the enemy
defences were extremely strong. Major Singh lost 10 of his soldiers in
two hours. Another 18 were injured and it was decided to make a
tactical retreat. But as they lay nursing their wounds behind some
large rocks inthe mountains, young *Naik Zakir *Hussain came forward and
saluted the Major.

``We will launch another attack, sir, with your permission,'' he said,
determinedly. The company commander, hit by a rock on his head,
discussed the matter with other soldiers and took the decision.

A little after 2 a.m. another attack was launched by the considerably
depleted Muslim Company. Stealthily they climbed, and as they reached
close to the peak, with the battle-cry of ``Allah-o-Akbar', they
launched the *attack from the rear.*

Once on the top, chanting `Allah-o-Akbar', the Grenadiers opened fire,
foxing the enemy, weakening their defence. But both numerically and
strategically stronger, the enemy retaliated once they gathered their
wits. Though 10 of their soldiers had already been killed earlier, the
injured 18 kept fighting with nothing more than courage and thewill to
defend the country.

And when the Pakistani reinforcements actually arrived, the Grenadiers
did not let them advance and kept fighting, both upward and downward.
``For three days the soldiers kept enemy reinforcements from reaching
Khalubar,'' said an officer.

``*Abid Hussain, another young Naik, manned the machine gun for 72
hours, lying in the open trying to stop the enemy from climbing.* He was
cut to pieces by enemy fire and died with his finger on the trigger,''
the officer added.

It* was only on the third night that soldiers of the 1/11 Gurkha Rifles
began advancing forward to Khalubar. They saw how badly their brothers-
in-arms from the Grenadiers were injured, and launched the attack even
though they had climbed all night and were supposed to recover during
the day*. With their `khukris' brandished, the Gurkhas launched the
final assault in daylight itself with the battle cry of `Ayo Gurkhali.'

Even though the enemy could see them, they kept advancing in the face
of heavy firing and Pakistanshelling. The Pakistani intruders, taken
aback by the ferocity of the attack, tried to flee but could not.

--
Thus was the battle for Peak 5250 in the Khalubar ridge won by India.

*Lance Naik Zakir Hussain and others have been recommended for
gallantary medals. Unfortunately most posthumously*. Let their sacrifice
be not in Vain. They made sure Batalik will be INDIAN FOREVER.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tariq Bhat/Khalubar, Kaksar & Sando Top 1999


Dressed in combat fatigues, Colonel Ajit Singh peered at Point 4812 on Khalubar ridge. His eyes ran over the knife-edged ridge and came to rest on Muntho Dhalo. At 16,000ft and close to the Line of Control, Muntho Dhalo was the Pakistan army’s supply and administrative base during the Kargil war. *Then Pak Mi-17 choppers had ferried goods and ammunition to the base for their troops on Khalubar and Kukarthang ridges, a few kilometres inside Batalik sector. Sin*gh, then a major, had seen the choppers in action, from his vantage point on a ledge on Khalubar ridge. During the battle, Singh was in charge of the Muslim company of the 22 Grenadiers.

On the night of July 1, 1999, he led the company’s climb to Point 4812 from Junk Lungpa Nullah. The target was only one kilometre away, as the crow flies, but the steep climb multiplied the distance manifold and the night brought with it angry winds and driving rain. The slippery slopes denied them a firm footing and as rain-softened handholds gave way, some Grenadiers had fatal falls. A few were crushed under boulders that rolled down the slushy slopes. But there was a bigger danger—the chattering enemy guns on the heights.

While Singh and the Muslim company were battling one slope, three other companies of 22 Grenadiers—the Ahirs, Jats and Meenas—were climbing from other directions. *The Muslims were the first to reach the top and to their horror found that they had landed bang in front of the enemy guns. As the enemy guns opened up, the Grenadiers took cover behind the few scattered boulders. But not all were safe.*
Grenadier Shiv Kumar died a painful death when a boulder rolled over him. *Imtiaz Ahmed *took a burst of machine gun fire and hung on, barely alive. *Lance Naik Sagar Ali *crawled to a quieter corner, dragging a leg shredded by gun fire. The Grenadiers were, literally, sitting ducks, but they returned fire when possible.

As dawn approached, Singh clung to his narrow ledge and hatched a plan to get the Grenadiers some respite. At first light, he asked the Muslims to raise the company war cry: Naara-e-takbir Allahu Akbar [Call out, God is great]. The guns on the ridge fell silent as the Pakistanis thought their reinforcements had come.

In the lull, the Grenadiers catapulted sniper Lance Naik Abid Khan to the top of the cliff; he quickly hauled up others from the ledge. As Singh scrambled on to the top, a voice playfully hissed in his ear: “*Sir, I, too, am here”. He turned to see a grinning Tufail Ahmed. Said Singh: “I had teased him many times saying, tu Tufail nahi hain, tu fail hain [You are not Tufail, you are a failure]. But that day he brought me to tears.” *No sooner had the Grenadiers firmed up on the ridge, the Pakistanis realised their mistake and fired their artillery guns with a vengeance. They also radioed the neighbouring *Point 5288 *and asked for supporting fire.

Khan took a machine gun burst in the chest and fell. As the sniper murmured his last prayers lying in Singh’s arms, another volley missed a soldier by a whisker. Singh quickly pushed him behind a boulder. By now the Grenadiers were low on ammunition and were under fire from Point 5288, too.
On the night of July 2, Lance Naik Amrit Lal Meena slithered up the cliff and linked up with the Muslim company. He bought with him confidence and manna—puris and chocolate. As the famished Grenadiers tucked in, a bullet pierced Naik Azeem Ahmed’s helmet; he miraculously escaped unhurt.

By now the Pakistanis were becoming impatient over the Grenadiers’ resilience and asked their artillery to redouble the barrage. It saw effect. A burst from Point 5288 killed Jamaluddin Ahmed; he died with his finger on the trigger. As a shell peppered a soldier’s buttocks with shrapnel, another killed three Grenadiers near him.
In the silence that followed, someone shouted in chaste Urdu: “Surrender and we will treat you well. Or else all of you will be butchered.” It was the Pak officer who commanded the post. Singh screamed back: “It is you who should surrender. Our men have succeeded in climbing right behind you.” Singh was hoping that the Pakistanis would fall for his bluff.

Unknown to Singh, a *1/11 Gorkha *company led by Colonel Lalit Rai, Vir Chakra, had closed in on the enemy. Under the cover of darkness Rai linked up with Singh and they decided it was better to call for a massive artillery strike than getting killed by the enemy. They radioed the units manning the Bofors howitzers and soon hell, literally, broke loose. The intruders panicked and the noose loosened. Eventually the 22 Grenadiers consolidated themselves on the ridge and handed charge to the 1/11 Gorkhas. Point 4812 was now in Indian hands.

Later, more reinforcements arrived to support the Gorkhas. Eventually the enemy was thrown off Kukarthang and Khalubar ridges and chased across the LoC. Sadly, the fierce battles in Batalik sector never caught the nation’s attention like those in Tiger Hill and Tololing in Dras sector. Many officers, too, agree that Dras sector got most of the media attention. By July 26, the LoC’s sanctity had been restored and the decision to honour heroes on August 15 left little time for the Army to properly honour those who secured Batalik.

Today, all posts in the 10,000ft to 18,000ft belt are manned yearlong. Many forward posts bordering the LoC remain cut off from the nearest base for up to seven months. Stockpiles are readied in advance and soldiers climb up the steep mountain tracks loaded with rations and weapons. When the snow falls, it is just the troops and the icy wind whistling among the lonely peaks.
Soldiers serving in these posts come from varying locations like humid coastal Kerala to searing hot Rajasthan. And on these heights they brave the enemy, avalanches and fatal high-altitude diseases like pulmonary oedema that causes accumulation of fluid in the lungs. Other health issues are frostbite, temporary amnesia, hair fall and depression. A soldier’s ears had got frostbitten when he doffed his headgear for a moment. The rarefied air brings breathing problems, too.

Captain Pradeep Chikara, who served in a forward post, said: “For more than four months there was no sunlight. You cannot enjoy food there, but then it is a matter of survival.” Lance Naik Amarjit Singh took the posting sportingly. “Tinned food, chocolate, dried fruits and nuts! I gained a lot of weight when I was at the post and put on a paunch. Now I am trying to get into shape,” he chuckled.
............................................................................
Shabnam Bano wife of Martyr Rijwan 22 Grenadier (kargil)* wipes her tears at the inauguration of the ‘Vijai Veer Aawas Parisar’, a housing complex specially built for the martyrs’ and handicapped jawans.






Brig *Ajit Singh (then major)

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Ajai Ghale said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> India today honored the following Grenadiers
> in the capture of Khalubar Ridge & Batalik sector.
> --
> Source: Hindustan Times dt 07/11/99
> 
> (The following believers in Islam were soldiers in *M company, 22nd
> Grenadiers)*
> 
> *Grenadiers Riasat Ali, Zuber Ahmed, Hussain Ali Khan, Hassan Mohammad,
> Mohammad Ishaq Khan
> Lance Naiks Ahmad Ali, Zakir Hussain, Abid Khan
> CQMH Annuruddin*
> 
> (Others honored were
> 
> Hav Brij Bhushan Tiwari and Sep Pramod Kumar
> Major Sarvanan - "Hero of Batalik"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> When Allah-O-Akbar was the victory chant of Indian soldiers in Batalik.
> 
> Here is the story of the brave sacrifice of the M company, 22nd
> Grenadiers.
> 
> Source: Indian Express dt 07/10/99
> 
> BATALIK, JULY 9: It appeared to be a no-win situation for the Army on
> *Peak 5250* near the Khalubar ridge in the Batalik sub-sector. But only
> till the determined Muslim Company of 22 Grenadiers decided to launch
> an aggressive attack and repulse the Pakistani intruders. The valiant
> Muslim company -- which fought for full three days -- could not have
> completed it without the active *support of 1/11 Gurkha Rifles.*
> The enemy forces, occupying the strategic heights, were repulsing every
> attack, often just by hurling boulders down at the advancing army. The
> Charlie Muslim Company, led by Major Ajit Singh, was given the task of
> recovering the peak. Leading a *team of 30 *brave soldiers, he launched
> an offensive under the cover of darkness.
> 
> They advanced on Peak 5250 to lead a fierce attack but the enemy
> defences were extremely strong. Major Singh lost 10 of his soldiers in
> two hours. Another 18 were injured and it was decided to make a
> tactical retreat. But as they lay nursing their wounds behind some
> large rocks inthe mountains, young *Naik Zakir *Hussain came forward and
> saluted the Major.
> 
> ``We will launch another attack, sir, with your permission,'' he said,
> determinedly. The company commander, hit by a rock on his head,
> discussed the matter with other soldiers and took the decision.
> 
> A little after 2 a.m. another attack was launched by the considerably
> depleted Muslim Company. Stealthily they climbed, and as they reached
> close to the peak, with the battle-cry of ``Allah-o-Akbar', they
> launched the *attack from the rear.*
> 
> Once on the top, chanting `Allah-o-Akbar', the Grenadiers opened fire,
> foxing the enemy, weakening their defence. But both numerically and
> strategically stronger, the enemy retaliated once they gathered their
> wits. Though 10 of their soldiers had already been killed earlier, the
> injured 18 kept fighting with nothing more than courage and thewill to
> defend the country.
> 
> And when the Pakistani reinforcements actually arrived, the Grenadiers
> did not let them advance and kept fighting, both upward and downward.
> ``For three days the soldiers kept enemy reinforcements from reaching
> Khalubar,'' said an officer.
> 
> ``*Abid Hussain, another young Naik, manned the machine gun for 72
> hours, lying in the open trying to stop the enemy from climbing.* He was
> cut to pieces by enemy fire and died with his finger on the trigger,''
> the officer added.
> 
> It* was only on the third night that soldiers of the 1/11 Gurkha Rifles
> began advancing forward to Khalubar. They saw how badly their brothers-
> in-arms from the Grenadiers were injured, and launched the attack even
> though they had climbed all night and were supposed to recover during
> the day*. With their `khukris' brandished, the Gurkhas launched the
> final assault in daylight itself with the battle cry of `Ayo Gurkhali.'
> 
> Even though the enemy could see them, they kept advancing in the face
> of heavy firing and Pakistanshelling. The Pakistani intruders, taken
> aback by the ferocity of the attack, tried to flee but could not.
> 
> --
> Thus was the battle for Peak 5250 in the Khalubar ridge won by India.
> 
> *Lance Naik Zakir Hussain and others have been recommended for
> gallantary medals. Unfortunately most posthumously*. Let their sacrifice
> be not in Vain. They made sure Batalik will be INDIAN FOREVER.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Tariq Bhat/Khalubar, Kaksar & Sando Top 1999
> 
> 
> Dressed in combat fatigues, Colonel Ajit Singh peered at Point 4812 on Khalubar ridge. His eyes ran over the knife-edged ridge and came to rest on Muntho Dhalo. At 16,000ft and close to the Line of Control, Muntho Dhalo was the Pakistan army’s supply and administrative base during the Kargil war. *Then Pak Mi-17 choppers had ferried goods and ammunition to the base for their troops on Khalubar and Kukarthang ridges, a few kilometres inside Batalik sector. Sin*gh, then a major, had seen the choppers in action, from his vantage point on a ledge on Khalubar ridge. During the battle, Singh was in charge of the Muslim company of the 22 Grenadiers.
> 
> On the night of July 1, 1999, he led the company’s climb to Point 4812 from Junk Lungpa Nullah. The target was only one kilometre away, as the crow flies, but the steep climb multiplied the distance manifold and the night brought with it angry winds and driving rain. The slippery slopes denied them a firm footing and as rain-softened handholds gave way, some Grenadiers had fatal falls. A few were crushed under boulders that rolled down the slushy slopes. But there was a bigger danger—the chattering enemy guns on the heights.
> 
> While Singh and the Muslim company were battling one slope, three other companies of 22 Grenadiers—the Ahirs, Jats and Meenas—were climbing from other directions. *The Muslims were the first to reach the top and to their horror found that they had landed bang in front of the enemy guns. As the enemy guns opened up, the Grenadiers took cover behind the few scattered boulders. But not all were safe.*
> Grenadier Shiv Kumar died a painful death when a boulder rolled over him. *Imtiaz Ahmed *took a burst of machine gun fire and hung on, barely alive. *Lance Naik Sagar Ali *crawled to a quieter corner, dragging a leg shredded by gun fire. The Grenadiers were, literally, sitting ducks, but they returned fire when possible.
> 
> As dawn approached, Singh clung to his narrow ledge and hatched a plan to get the Grenadiers some respite. At first light, he asked the Muslims to raise the company war cry: Naara-e-takbir Allahu Akbar [Call out, God is great]. The guns on the ridge fell silent as the Pakistanis thought their reinforcements had come.
> 
> In the lull, the Grenadiers catapulted sniper Lance Naik Abid Khan to the top of the cliff; he quickly hauled up others from the ledge. As Singh scrambled on to the top, a voice playfully hissed in his ear: “*Sir, I, too, am here”. He turned to see a grinning Tufail Ahmed. Said Singh: “I had teased him many times saying, tu Tufail nahi hain, tu fail hain [You are not Tufail, you are a failure]. But that day he brought me to tears.” *No sooner had the Grenadiers firmed up on the ridge, the Pakistanis realised their mistake and fired their artillery guns with a vengeance. They also radioed the neighbouring *Point 5288 *and asked for supporting fire.
> 
> Khan took a machine gun burst in the chest and fell. As the sniper murmured his last prayers lying in Singh’s arms, another volley missed a soldier by a whisker. Singh quickly pushed him behind a boulder. By now the Grenadiers were low on ammunition and were under fire from Point 5288, too.
> On the night of July 2, Lance Naik Amrit Lal Meena slithered up the cliff and linked up with the Muslim company. He bought with him confidence and manna—puris and chocolate. As the famished Grenadiers tucked in, a bullet pierced Naik Azeem Ahmed’s helmet; he miraculously escaped unhurt.
> 
> By now the Pakistanis were becoming impatient over the Grenadiers’ resilience and asked their artillery to redouble the barrage. It saw effect. A burst from Point 5288 killed Jamaluddin Ahmed; he died with his finger on the trigger. As a shell peppered a soldier’s buttocks with shrapnel, another killed three Grenadiers near him.
> In the silence that followed, someone shouted in chaste Urdu: “Surrender and we will treat you well. Or else all of you will be butchered.” It was the Pak officer who commanded the post. Singh screamed back: “It is you who should surrender. Our men have succeeded in climbing right behind you.” Singh was hoping that the Pakistanis would fall for his bluff.
> 
> Unknown to Singh, a *1/11 Gorkha *company led by Colonel Lalit Rai, Vir Chakra, had closed in on the enemy. Under the cover of darkness Rai linked up with Singh and they decided it was better to call for a massive artillery strike than getting killed by the enemy. They radioed the units manning the Bofors howitzers and soon hell, literally, broke loose. The intruders panicked and the noose loosened. Eventually the 22 Grenadiers consolidated themselves on the ridge and handed charge to the 1/11 Gorkhas. Point 4812 was now in Indian hands.
> 
> Later, more reinforcements arrived to support the Gorkhas. Eventually the enemy was thrown off Kukarthang and Khalubar ridges and chased across the LoC. Sadly, the fierce battles in Batalik sector never caught the nation’s attention like those in Tiger Hill and Tololing in Dras sector. Many officers, too, agree that Dras sector got most of the media attention. By July 26, the LoC’s sanctity had been restored and the decision to honour heroes on August 15 left little time for the Army to properly honour those who secured Batalik.
> 
> Today, all posts in the 10,000ft to 18,000ft belt are manned yearlong. Many forward posts bordering the LoC remain cut off from the nearest base for up to seven months. Stockpiles are readied in advance and soldiers climb up the steep mountain tracks loaded with rations and weapons. When the snow falls, it is just the troops and the icy wind whistling among the lonely peaks.
> Soldiers serving in these posts come from varying locations like humid coastal Kerala to searing hot Rajasthan. And on these heights they brave the enemy, avalanches and fatal high-altitude diseases like pulmonary oedema that causes accumulation of fluid in the lungs. Other health issues are frostbite, temporary amnesia, hair fall and depression. A soldier’s ears had got frostbitten when he doffed his headgear for a moment. The rarefied air brings breathing problems, too.
> 
> Captain Pradeep Chikara, who served in a forward post, said: “For more than four months there was no sunlight. You cannot enjoy food there, but then it is a matter of survival.” Lance Naik Amarjit Singh took the posting sportingly. “Tinned food, chocolate, dried fruits and nuts! I gained a lot of weight when I was at the post and put on a paunch. Now I am trying to get into shape,” he chuckled.
> ............................................................................
> Shabnam Bano wife of Martyr Rijwan 22 Grenadier (kargil)* wipes her tears at the inauguration of the ‘Vijai Veer Aawas Parisar’, a housing complex specially built for the martyrs’ and handicapped jawans.
> 
> View attachment 234827
> 
> 
> Brig *Ajit Singh (then major)
> View attachment 234828
> 
> View attachment 234829



Great.This doesnt serve the purpose on the creation of units like Grenadiers.

M company must be Mujahid company then.Normally a battalion doesnt have M company...Alpha,bravo,chalie,delta,ghatak and headquaters only.

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## alby

Omega007 said:


> Pikas do not make use of M43!!


I said we are getting PKs by spending some M43 rounds at some one instead of dollars..

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## Omega007

alby said:


> I said we are getting PKs by spending some M43 rounds at some one instead of dollars..



Oh,I see.LOLzzzz...........

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## anyrandom

From the last some years MoD has been returning unused money back to the Central Gov! And then they don't acquire proper BPJ's for the infantry. The whole system including the Army top brass is corrupt. This new govt should identify and prosecute these traitors inside Army.


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## bloo



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## Koovie

bloo said:


>



Does not look Indian to me... M 16s, ACOG scopes, that camo pattern

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## bloo

Koovie said:


> Does not look Indian to me... M 16s, ACOG scopes, that camo pattern



Might be an exercise.


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## Koovie

bloo said:


> Might be an exercise.



Whats the source BTW?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

bloo said:


>



US troops -- white guy -- woodland camo -- US gear.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I feel proud of the fact that Indian soldiers have choosen death before dishonour each and every time and specially the SF.
> 
> Indian SF is a highly successful force with no failures but a little high casualty in 84 operations.
> 
> And that record speaks for itself when they have conducted raids from Africa to Myanamar.
> 
> Over the past 30 years our success was in Sierra Lone,Myanamar,Pakistan,Sri Lanka,Maldives etc.



Deployment on UN missions isn't a big deal even Bangladeshis send their troops -- you will find pics if their "SWADs" in Sudan .. Same goes for a lot of other countries.... As for Maldives,SL and Pak .. Yeah right Maldives lol... The causality rate of indian troops in the short times of their deployment in SL is enough to know better. That's almost the number of our casualties since the last 15 years.. You took that in ?? And ultimately withdrew -- again there are accusations of indian troops involved in the hospital massacre.


Pak? Really okay.. Do you think we didn't conduct business in your country? Do you know we established the SL special forces? From the training -- right down to theselection of the locatipn of their training center ?


Afghanistan? USSR,Bosnia (with the Bosnian mujahideen,Africa,ME,etx etc ?
Myanmar yeah a raid on your own border with Myanmar -- so much to boast about ..




> Our SF is not rated anywhere but if the ones which are rated have conducted operations like Pathankot air drop surrender and Lal Masjid plus surrendered against taliban....I laugh at such a list and will wipe my *** with it.




lal mosque was still a success compared to your blunders in Opetation blue star or Bombay Attacks! Where not only you took more casualties but several days to clear those areas and large number of innocent were killed by col - damage by indian troops (specially in blue star) .

SSG managed to save thousands of students in a building with thousands of rooms,underground basements filled with heavily armed and motivated (former- fighters had fought in Afghanistan durin Cold War),dozens of suicide bombers etc!

Surrender against taliban ? Why don't you stfu... Your faggoty claims have been busted seeral times !

Pathan kot air drop surrender ? Pathan kot was destroyed to shit by PAF.. Along with your bases like halwara, etc etc.. Infact Pathan Kot raid is infamous -- which lead to destruction of dozens ofyourjets ! Wipe yours with that.

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## bloo

Koovie said:


> Whats the source BTW?



Indian Special Forces's Photos - Indian Special Forces | Facebook


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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUD COMMANDO




IN MARCOS

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## Koovie

bloo said:


> Indian Special Forces's Photos - Indian Special Forces | Facebook



There is a reason why nobody uses FB as a source

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## hkdas

RPK said:


>


COBRA commandos.. not SF

*Indian Army’s Myanmar strike to be a case study in special ops*





The Indian Army’s rare strike on foreign soil on June 9 will make it to the force’s elite schools specialising in counter insurgency, jungle warfare and special operations as a case study, a senior army officer told HT.

Indian paratroopers conducted cross-border raids on two insurgent camps in Myanmar –- across the Manipur and Nagaland borders — inflicting “significant casualties” five days after 18 soldiers were killed in Manipur’s Chandel district in the worst attack on security forces in 20 years.

“The operation was a tactical masterpiece and scrutinising it at our teaching establishments will help our military professionals understand the nuances of such strikes,” said the officer, who did not wish to be named because of diplomatic sensitivities.

Two assault teams, consisting of 40 soldiers each, from the elite 21 Para (Special Force) Regiment had penetrated five-seven kilometers inside Myanmar and killed more than 20 insurgents in separate engagements that lasted less than 30 minutes, as first reported by HT on June 10.

The twin raids, authorised by the highest levels in the government, will be studied in minute detail at establishments such as the Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School at Vairengte in Mizoram, Special Forces Training School in Nahan and the Infantry School and Army War College in Mhow, Madhya Pradesh.

The case study will be disseminated to these institutions by the Shimla-based Army Training Command, responsible for developing the force’s concepts and doctrines.

“The Myanmar strikes will make for a superb case study for our soldiers and young leaders. It was a fine demonstration of politico-military will to carry out a punitive strike on foreign soil,” lieutenant general Vinod Bhatia, a paratrooper and former director general of military operations, told HT.

Bhatia stressed it would give soldiers valuable insights into aspects related to planning, preparing, training for and executing such precise operations in unfamiliar territory. “There’s a lot they can learn from the Myanmar raids at the tactical level,” he added

Indian Army’s Myanmar strike to be a case study in special ops | idrw.org

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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Deployment on UN missions isn't a big deal even Bangladeshis send their troops -- you will find pics if their "SWADs" in Sudan .. Same goes for a lot of other countries.... As for Maldives,SL and Pak .. Yeah right Maldives lol... The causality rate of indian troops in the short times of their deployment in SL is enough to know better. That's almost the number of our casualties since the last 15 years.



ooh man, stop this nonsense he was talking about daring rescue operations by indian SF in Sierra Leone.. when the hell did the SF of pakistan or Bangladesh or any other Asian country conduct an operation like Operation Khukri during UN deployment??

you just STFU. the casualty rate of IPKF is 1,200 casualties.. the duration is July 1987 – March 1990. still very much less causality when compared to the casualty of Pakistan army in 2 month kargill war, which is 4000. 
'Over 4,000 Pakistanis died in Kargil conflict'

and in pakistan army's WoT. Pakistani armed forces have suffered more than 15,000 casualties fighting Taliban extremists in the tribal areas since operations began
Heavy price: Pakistan says war on terror has cost nearly 50,000 lives there since 9/11 - Washington Times



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Pak? Really okay.. Do you think we didn't conduct business in your country? Do you know we established the SL special forces? From the training -- right down to theselection of the locatipn of their training center ?



totally wrong, SL SF was mostly trained by US army special forces and SAS. yes i agree SSG did also trained them.. so do indian special forces.
_India provides 80% of the training requirements to Sri Lankan troops as part of the close cooperation between the two nations, Army Commander, Lt. Gen. Daya Ratnayake said.
The Island 
_



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> lal mosque was still a success compared to your blunders in Opetation blue star or Bombay Attacks! Where not only you took more casualties but several days to clear those areas and large number of innocent were killed by col - damage by indian troops (specially in blue star) .


clamed only by a foolish brainwashed pakistani_.._. lal mosque was total deserter.. how many SSG died inthat operation?? declaring those killed by your forces as terrorists will only reduce the civilian causalities on official report, that didn't change the fact. you have no idea about the blue star operation and the mumbai attack.. during 26/11 the 90% of civilian causality occurred before the SF came for rescue. mumbai attack is a combination of bombing, assault and hostage talking by some Pakistan special forces trained terrorists. pakistani never faced such an attack in this magnitude, so you won't understand. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Surrender against taliban ? Why don't you stfu... Your faggoty claims have been busted seeral times !


that video is in youtube you can watch that... google is your friend for that.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Pathan kot air drop surrender ? Pathan kot was destroyed to shit by PAF.. Along with your bases like halwara, etc etc.. Infact Pathan Kot raid is infamous -- which lead to destruction of dozens ofyourjets ! Wipe yours with that.


he mean Operation Gibraltar

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## rezangahir

hkdas said:


> ooh man, stop this nonsense he was talking about daring rescue operations by indian SF in Sierra Leone.. when the hell did the SF of pakistan or Bangladesh or any other Asian country conduct an operation like Operation Khukri during UN deployment??
> 
> you just STFU. the casualty rate of IPKF is 1,200 casualties.. the duration is July 1987 – March 1990. still very much less causality when compared to the casualty of Pakistan army in 2 month kargill war, which is 4000.
> 'Over 4,000 Pakistanis died in Kargil conflict'
> 
> and in pakistan army's WoT. Pakistani armed forces have suffered more than 15,000 casualties fighting Taliban extremists in the tribal areas since operations began
> Heavy price: Pakistan says war on terror has cost nearly 50,000 lives there since 9/11 - Washington Times
> 
> 
> 
> totally wrong, SL SF was mostly trained by US army special forces and SAS. yes i agree SSG did also trained them.. so do indian special forces.
> _India provides 80% of the training requirements to Sri Lankan troops as part of the close cooperation between the two nations, Army Commander, Lt. Gen. Daya Ratnayake said.
> The Island
> _
> 
> clamed only by a foolish brainwashed pakistani_.._. lal mosque was total deserter.. how many SSG died inthat operation?? declaring those killed by your forces as terrorists will only reduce the civilian causalities on official report, that didn't change the fact. you have no idea about the blue star operation and the mumbai attack.. during 26/11 the 90% of civilian causality occurred before the SF came for rescue. mumbai attack is a combination of bombing, assault and hostage talking by some Pakistan special forces trained terrorists. pakistani never faced such an attack in this magnitude, so you won't understand.
> 
> 
> that video is in youtube you can watch that... google is your friend for that.
> 
> he mean Operation Gibraltar


Nope SSG ops in 1965 was a total disaster apart from their later failed operation on 1987 and 1992 when they failed to Recapture Qaid/Bana Post and ended up collecting the dead bodies after India allowed them to do so in flag meeting,famous case being capt. MD Iqbal SSG 

As for 1965 



IAF Air Chief Marshal P.C.Lal

The Pakistani Army’s special forces were raised as the Special Service Group (SSG) in 1956 using the cadre of 19 (Para) Baloch. This special force was trained in sobotage and disruptive activities behind enemy lines.

On the night of 6th September, around 200 officers and men of the SSG were air-dropped by C-130s near the Indian airbases of *Adampur, Pathankot and Halwara on a bold mission to destroy Indian combat aircraft *and put the bases out of action. They would then ex-filtrate back to Pakistan, following the numerous rivulets and streams that flow from Punjab back to their home territory.


*Pathankot*

It was wee hours of the morning when para-troopers landed at Pathankot. The pitch darkness and difficult terrain (it was criss-crossed by canals, streams and the fields were full of water) prevented them from regrouping

*Adampur*
This group too faced the same fate as the Pathankot team - unable to assemble, they tried to hide in the cornfields during the day. *However, the farmers formed mobs and captured them, and some were even killed by the Punjabis. Their Commander, Capt Durrani was also taken POW.*

*Halwara*

Some of the men landed within the airfield perimeter itself and were soon rounded up. However the detachment commander, Major Hazur Hasnain, and one of his men managed to get away in a captured Jeep.

It is clear that troops possesed little knowledge of the terrain and were dropped in too large a number to be effective. *The final analysis evealed that more than 180 commandos were dropped out of which 136 were taken prisoners, 22 were killed in encounters with the army, police or the civilians and 22-15 managed to escape to Pakistan*. Considering the fact that Pathankot is barely 10 miles from the IB, this number is'nt too much of an achievement.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> ooh man, stop this nonsense he was talking about daring rescue operations by indian SF in Sierra Leone.. when the hell did the SF of pakistan or Bangladesh or any other Asian country conduct an operation like Operation Khukri during UN deployment??



So a multinational UN operation against a couple of rebels became a Damn indian SF operation ?


As for Pak - Google it Pak is the largest UN peacekeeper contributor - out forces were never bared from entering nations after accusations of massive child abuse and smuggling ..





> you just STFU. the casualty rate of IPKF is 1,200 casualties.. the duration is July 1987 – March 1990. still very much less causality when compared to the casualty of Pakistan army in 2 month kargill war, which is 4000.
> 'Over 4,000 Pakistanis died in Kargil conflict'




So that's 1200 dead - 30,000+ wounded in 3 years and nothing accomplished apart from massacres like tiomalee hospital massacre and shown the boot... Great !

4000 yeah fuktard with rural deployment being close to 2500 I believe you .. Although your own military doesn't believe the shit stats pushed by a politician who took the flight out after hijacking a plane.. Unfortunately it was your own troops that had to bear humiliation with things like coffin scandal,garbage truck controversy and fake medal stories!


> and in pakistan army's WoT. Pakistani armed forces have suffered more than 15,000 casualties fighting Taliban extremists in the tribal areas since operations began
> Heavy price: Pakistan says war on terror has cost nearly 50,000 lives there since 9/11 - Washington Time



army fatalities are less than 5000 due to IEDs .. That's a little higher than NATO itself in 15 years....15000 again the fuktard is wilting figures out of his arse ... And spreadin misinformation by quoting terror attacks on police etc!



> totally wrong, SL SF was mostly trained by US army special forces and SAS. yes i agree SSG did also trained them.. so do indian special forces.
> _India provides 80% of the training requirements to Sri Lankan troops as part of the close cooperation between the two nations, Army Commander, Lt. Gen. Daya Ratnayake said.
> The Island _


_ 
_
knock yourself out baby :

The Island


 

Word has it even our pilots crushed LTTE fk (apart from Pak mil advisors on ground) during the last operation that exterminated your proxy in Lanka ... Apart from Pak supplying SL with weapons and military systems ... Even today present military chief has studied at our military institutions ..

Even today we are training SFs of various nations but unlike you we don't boast of the smallest things!



> clamed only by a foolish brainwashed pakistani_.._. lal mosque was total deserter.. how many SSG died inthat operation?? declaring those killed by your forces as terrorists will only reduce the civilian causalities on official report, that didn't change the fact.



STFU pics of those turds from ted mosque are all over the Internet .. Men armed with automatic weapons,declaration by the aziz n other cunt of having dozens of suicide bombers are also on the internet.... Pics after the operation and the rescue of 13,00 students that were gathered and handed over to their guardians in a stadium are also there !

Total casualties including rangers,police and SSG amount to 11.. With 4-5 being martyred before the operation (during negotiation) by sniper fire (that lead to the operation) are well known!




> you have no idea about the blue star operation and the mumbai attack.. during 26/11 the 90% of civilian causality occurred before the SF came for rescue. mumbai attack is a combination of bombing, assault and hostage talking by some Pakistan special forces trained terrorists. pakistani never faced such an attack in this magnitude, so you won't understand.


So 10 guys trained by our special forces got your capital closed for days and fought off thousands of your troops ... Am I missing something here ???




> that video is in youtube you can watch that... google is your friend for that.
> 
> he mean Operation Gibraltar




President Zia-ul-Haq was killed on August 17th, 1988 when a Pakistan Air Force C 130 crashed just five minutes after taking off. Among the dead were Gen. Akhtar Khan, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee and US Ambassador to Islamabad, Arnold Raphel. In accordance with the Indo-Lanka Accord (ILA), the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) was deployed in the temporarily-merged North-Eastern Province, therefore the SLA was confined to barracks. Many felt that Sri Lanka’s relationship with Pakistan could go sour following the Pakistani President’s death. Had that happened, Sri Lanka’s defence would have suffered irreparable damage. In spite of political turmoil, successive governments in Pakistan remained committed to Sri Lanka’s defence right throughout. The tough talking General said at the conclusion of his Colombo visit that had Pakistan been an arms producing country at that time, it would have given anything to Sri Lanka.
In December 1985, Pakistan threw its full weight behind Sri Lanka’s fight against Indian sponsored terrorism with the then President Zia-ul-Haq visiting Colombo on the invitation of President J. R. Jayewardene. During his five-day visit, the Pakistani leader called upon the world to help Sri Lanka preserve its sovereignty and territorial integrity.



Brigadier Tariq Mahmood
President Zia-ul-Haq’s arrival on the morning of December 10, 1985 gave a tremendous boost to bilateral relations with Pakistan pledging its unstinted support for the Sri Lankan Army (SLA), to acquire the required expertise in anti-insurgency operations. The visiting President was accompanied by his wife. Pakistan stepped-in as the SLA was struggling to cope up with the rapidly deteriorating situation in the Jaffna peninsula. For want of strength as well as the expertise, the SLA struggled to contain terrorism.

The historic visit took place against the backdrop of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979, which paved the way for unprecedented cooperation among US-led Western powers, Pakistan and China against the Soviets. Pakistan spearheaded a costly destabilization campaign in occupied Afghanistan until the parties to the conflict reached agreement on a Soviet pullout. The former super power began withdrawing forces in May 1988 and completed the process in February 1989.

The SLA had been battling five major terrorist groups, namely the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), People’s Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (PLOTE), Tamil Eelam Liberation Organization (TELO), Eelam People’s Revolutionary Liberation Front (EPRLF) and Eelam Revolutionary Organization of Students (EROS) at the onset of the first eelam war. Except the PLOTE, the other groups worked together as members of the Eelam National Liberation Front (ENLF).

The Pakistan leader’s state visit took place in the wake of the collapse of the Thimpu initiative (July/Aug 1985), and the breakdown of the three-month-long ceasefire (June 18-Sept. 18, 1985) as well as an attempt to extend the same by three more months.

JRJ vows to liquidate terrorists

Although President JRJ declared his intention to take on the terrorists in case Indian initiatives failed to bear fruit, the SLA lacked the strength to conduct a successful ground offensive in early 1986. According to SLA’s 50th anniversary publication, at the end of December 1985, the regular force comprised 1,055 officers and 17,876 other ranks (Volunteer Force comprised 281 officers and 4,771 other rankers), whereas in 1983, the regular force consisted of 615 officers, 9,513 other rankers (Volunteer Force comprised 163 officers and 3,130 other rankers).

Before the eruption of major hostilities in July 1983, the SLA had just a few regular infantry battalions, namely the First battalion of the Sri Lanka Light Infantry (I SLLI) raised on May 12, 1950, First Battalion of the Sri Lanka Sinha Regiment (I SLSR) raised on October 1, 1956 and the First Battalion of the Gemunu Watch (IGW), raised on December 7, 1962.

The fourth infantry formation, the First Battalion of the Rajarata Rifles (I RR), which was raised on January 15, 1980, was disbanded on August 14, 1983 following a revolt by a section of the formation stationed at Saliyapura. This was consequent to I RR troops blamed for violence unleashed in the wake of the killing of a member deployed for election duty in Jaffna on May 18, 1983.



The *SLA raised the First Commando Regiment as a squadron on March 15, 1980. It was given the status of a Regiment on March 15, 1986.*

Despite the gradual increase in strength, the SLA still couldn’t muster the required strength needed to eradicate terrorism, though President JRJ as well as the then National Security Minister, Lalith Athulathmudali publicly vowed to pursue a military option, in case negotiations failed to produce the desired results.

In an interview with _India Today_ in December 1985, President JRJ vowed to go ahead with military action regardless of the consequences. When _India Today_ asked what a military solution entailed, President JRJ said his government would do everything in its power to achieve ‘complete eradication of terrorist activities in the country’.

JRJ welcomed the Pakistani leader in Colombo close on the heels of his meeting with Indian Premier Rajiv Gandhi on the sidelines of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) summit in Dhaka (Dec. 7-8, 1985), to explore ways and means of convincing the Tamil United Liberation Front (TULF) as well as LTTE, PLOTE, TELO, EPRLF and TELO to resume negotiations.

The main stumbling block for a negotiated settlement was the armed groups’ confidence that they were superior to the SLA. They remained confident of their tactics to counter any move made by the SLA in Jaffna. Their strategies heavily depended on the effective deployment of landmines and ambushes in the peninsula. For want of a cohesive strategy to counter the growing threat, the SLA found itself under siege in August 1985. The situation continued to deteriorate with Jaffna bases totally depending on supplies by sea and air, due to the blockade of overland routes. The SLA couldn’t even maintain overland access between major bases.

*Pakistani instructors at Saliyapura*

Former Army Commander, General Gerry H. de Silva, in his memoirs titled, _A Most Nobel Profession: Memories That Linger_, quotes President Zia- ul-Haq as having declared that he was prepared to meet whatever requirements of Sri Lankan armed forces. According to General de Silva, the Pakistani President was responding to an Indian journalist at a media conference held at the Defence Ministry at the conclusion of the state visit.

Gen. de Silva, who had served as Sri Lanka’s High Commissioner in Islamabad in the 1990s, explained how Pakistan had gone out of its way to help the Sri Lankan military to fight terrorists. As Sri Lanka-Pakistan relations expanded, *President Zia–ul-Haq had sent the then Regimental Commander of Special Forces, Brigadier Tariq Mahmood to explore ways and means of enhancing training facilities in Sri Lanka. The then Colonel General Staff, Gerry de Silva had to take the Pakistani veteran around the country to select a training facility. After having inspected several bases, Brigadier Mahamood picked Saliyapura, home of the Gajaba Regiment, to launch an intensive training programme for a selected group of officers-Non Commissioned Officers and junior leaders. According to General de Silva, Pakistani instructors trained nearly 500 in two batches. Pakistan also accommodated many Sri Lankan personnel at institutions at home, including at the Infantry Training School, in Quetta.*

*Pakistan played a major role in the gradual transformation of a once ceremonial army into a formidable fighting force. In fact, during the eelam war I (1983-1987), Pakistan had been the main supplier of small arms, according to General Gerry de Silva.*

Indian media onslaught

President Zia-ul-Haq’s visit triggered speculation of a large scale military build-up against terrorist groups operating in the Jaffna peninsula. On behalf of the ENLF, the EPRLF issued a statement from India accusing President JRJ of planning to launch what it called the final offensive targeting the Jaffna peninsula. The EPRLF wouldn’t have issued such a hard hitting statement without the consent of its masters in New Delhi. The EPRLF alleged that the SLA was amassing troops in the peninsula and a fresh offensive was imminent. The propaganda campaign was timed for the Pakistani leader’s visit. An irate President JRJ directed the then Joint Operations Command (JoC) Chief, Lt. Gen. Cyril Ranatunga to counter Indian propaganda. Lt. Gen. Ranatunga issued a strongly worded rebuttal during President Zia-ul-Haq’s presence in Colombo.

Pakistan simply ignored the high profile media campaign directed against growing relations with Sri Lanka. *The SLA would have found itself in a catastrophic situation if not for the prompt Pakistan training project launched by President Zia-ul-Haq*. Interestingly, the Pakistani leader also accommodated SLA personnel at training facilities in Pakistan. Addressing a seminar in Colombo, which dealt with Pakistan-Sri Lanka relations, on Feb. 23, 2005, *General Gerry de Silva, recollected how Islamabad’s growing role perturbed the Indian government during President JRJ’s period. A grateful former Army chief said that Pakistan had accommodated Sri Lankan personnel at Quetta, where young officers received specialist training, while junior leaders underwent intensive anti-terrorist training at Mangla and Shinkiari.* President Zia-ul-Haq went to the extent of having a group of Pakistani cooks trained in Colombo to prepare Sri Lankan cuisine for those undergoing training there.

*The SLLI, the SLSR, the GW and the newly raised First Battalion of the Gajaba Regiment (IGR), benefited tremendously from training provided by the Pakistanis.*

*Retired Warrant Officer Class II, T. M. S. Rodrigo, formerly of the Commando Regiment, recollected the role played by Brigadier Tariq Mahmood in facilitating parachute training for Sri Lankan personnel.* (Decorated veteran Mahmood died in an accident one year after the death of General Zia-ul-Haq in a plane crash on August 17th, 1988. Some speculated that Mahmood, who was very close to the Pakistani leader, had purposely refrained from opening his parachute at a commemorative ceremony). *The Special Service Group (SSG) was in charge of training conducted here. The former commando said that Pakistan had provided expertise in various fields over a period of time, beginning with intense training for the infantry at Saliyapura, Anuradhapura, in early 1986. "Pakistan remained solidly behind us throughout the military campaign until the conclusion of the conflict in May 2009," Rodrigo said, appreciating providing the required help to attain expertise in operations behind enemy lines. Responding to a query, Rodrigo said that the multifaceted Pakistan project had been geared to strengthen the overall fighting capability of the SLA.

Rodrigo, who retired in 2003 after having served the SLA for many years, explained the difficulty in obtaining foreign expertise at the onset of the conflict, due to external factors. The Pakistan project here had been timely and also of critical importance to the SLA’s efforts to build-up strength to face terrorism, he said.*

Israeli expertise to handle explosives

One-time Commandant of the elite Special Task Force (STF), retired senior DIG Nimal Lewke recollected the role played by President JRJ’s son, Ravi Jayewardene (RJ) in bringing in foreign experts at a time the police and the military were struggling to tackle terrorism. Much to the surprise of those who had alleged that the government lacked a cohesive strategy to meet the threat of terrorism, the then Defence advisor, RJ, obtained the services of ex-British Special Air Services (SAS) personnel employed by KMS, an expensive firm managing mercenaries. In fact, the STF had been the first to benefit from foreign expertise in counter-terrorism operations in the wake of the Black July 1983 riots. According to Lewke, Israeli army instructors had conducted a special course for a group of security forces and police personnel at the Panagoda cantonment during 1984. Lewke had been among those who underwent training there in explosives handling.

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## hkdas

rezangahir said:


> Nope SSG ops in 1965 was a total disaster apart from their later failed operation on 1987 and 1992 when they failed to Recapture Qaid/Bana Post and ended up collecting the dead bodies after India allowed them to do so in flag meeting,famous case being capt. MD Iqbal SSG
> 
> As for 1965
> 
> 
> 
> IAF Air Chief Marshal P.C.Lal
> 
> The Pakistani Army’s special forces were raised as the Special Service Group (SSG) in 1956 using the cadre of 19 (Para) Baloch. This special force was trained in sobotage and disruptive activities behind enemy lines.
> 
> On the night of 6th September, around 200 officers and men of the SSG were air-dropped by C-130s near the Indian airbases of *Adampur, Pathankot and Halwara on a bold mission to destroy Indian combat aircraft *and put the bases out of action. They would then ex-filtrate back to Pakistan, following the numerous rivulets and streams that flow from Punjab back to their home territory.
> 
> 
> *Pathankot*
> 
> It was wee hours of the morning when para-troopers landed at Pathankot. The pitch darkness and difficult terrain (it was criss-crossed by canals, streams and the fields were full of water) prevented them from regrouping
> 
> *Adampur*
> This group too faced the same fate as the Pathankot team - unable to assemble, they tried to hide in the cornfields during the day. *However, the farmers formed mobs and captured them, and some were even killed by the Punjabis. Their Commander, Capt Durrani was also taken POW.*
> 
> *Halwara*
> 
> Some of the men landed within the airfield perimeter itself and were soon rounded up. However the detachment commander, Major Hazur Hasnain, and one of his men managed to get away in a captured Jeep.
> 
> It is clear that troops possesed little knowledge of the terrain and were dropped in too large a number to be effective. *The final analysis evealed that more than 180 commandos were dropped out of which 136 were taken prisoners, 22 were killed in encounters with the army, police or the civilians and 22-15 managed to escape to Pakistan*. Considering the fact that Pathankot is barely 10 miles from the IB, this number is'nt too much of an achievement.


thanks for that info bro....

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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So a multinational UN operation against a couple of rebels became a Damn indian SF operation ?
> 
> 
> As for Pak - Google it Pak is the largest UN peacekeeper contributor - out forces were never bared from entering nations after accusations of massive child abuse and smuggling ..



couple of rebels!!??? was that coupe of rebels were you and your father?? STFU you fools as an @$$  try only to argue after learning about the topic. Operation Khukri by indian forces and Operation Palliser by British SAS(British military intervention in the Sierra Leone Civil War) put an end to the Revolutionary United Front (RUF). both the operation were rescue operation of the soldiers of their respective country.
i'm really fed up with this brainwashed pakistani fools.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So that's 1200 dead - 30,000+ wounded in 3 years and nothing accomplished apart from massacres like tiomalee hospital massacre and shown the boot... Great !
> 
> 4000 yeah fuktard with rural deployment being close to 2500 I believe you .. Although your own military doesn't believe the shit stats pushed by a politician who took the flight out after hijacking a plane.. Unfortunately it was your own troops that had to bear humiliation with things like coffin scandal,garbage truck controversy and fake medal stories!



your post are real proof that you have no knowledge on srilankan civil war, you are here just to troll and you have no idea of capability of LTTE. they are better equipped and well funded that any forces in the asia. the causality of sirlankan forces was 23,327+ killed and 60,000+ wounded.. pakistan army was too afraid of putting boots on the ground, so they just marginalized themselves to an advisory role.. the pakistan army advice was such a good that the sri Lankan army start facing an unprecedented failures in almost every operation in the war and india had to send IPKF to Sri lanka to save the island nation.
there noting called tiomalee hospital massacre(may be its from your dream) if you mean 1987 trincomalee massacre then IPKF had noting to do with that, it was on 17th April 1987(3 months before IPKF was send to srilanka), just three days after Sinhala and Hindu new year, LTTE terrorist killed 130 civilians who were travelling in 3 busses and 2 lorries at Aluth Oya – Kittuluttawa in Trincomalee and if you mean Trincomalee university massacre then it was in 2006(more than a decade after indian forces left srilanka). the massacre was done by sri lankan army. and if you mean that hospital mascare alleged by IPKF then it was an operation in the jafna, at that time Jaffna was the major stronghold of LTTE. the hospital was run by LTTE to treat the injured soldiers of LTTE when indian army reach there LTTE attacked indian army convoy so IA retaliated and resulted in death of many LTTE terrorists.

you d!(k head, that 4000 causality of your army is said by your then and current PM. not by me or any indian media. it was all over the pakistani and indian news at that time. your ISI officer(i don't remember his name) who wrote the book "putting our children on line of fire" also agreed that the the casualty report of pakistan army is wrong and the original casualty was very much higher than in the recorded number 543 KIA.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> army fatalities are less than 5000 due to IEDs .. That's a little higher than NATO itself in 15 years....15000 again the fuktard is wilting figures out of his arse ... And spreadin misinformation by quoting terror attacks on police etc!


no it is the causality report of your army and paramilitary. and the causality of 5000 is just a propaganda of your army. the original number is very much higher despite conducting carpet bombing of the area before putting booths on the ground. and the IED is also used by LTTE in an unprecedented scale. that cased most of the causality in indian forces in srilanka. and the pakistan army is now fighting with the help of US aid and using many of their technology. without US help pakistan army would be mascaraed by those TTP. in srilanka the IPKF was fighting a war by our own in 80s with a well equipped forces.. LTTE even have Night vision scopes on sniper rifles that too in 80s!!!. the pakistan have help from NATO. they are providing aids to pakistan to fight the war. and this is 21 century now there are many technology to find the hidden enemy and pakistan army is fighting in their won country unlike indian army who were fighting in a foreign country in an unknown terrain. at that time there was no technology existed to do a surveillance on the enemy hidden in thick forest. we don't even have any external help. even those LTTE managed to infiltrate sri lankan army. even their president at that time was pro-LTTE. he(Ranasinghe Premadasa) even supplied weapons for LTTE to fight indian forces. there is large difference in the fighting capability of LTTE and TTP.. even today the TTP is not as well equipped as LTTE in 1980s. even tho IPKF was winning the war. LTTE suicide bombers are only terrorists in this world who came with a simile in their face just before blowing themselves up. a well educated terrorists who speak fluent English, mostly they came as journalists which makes them had to identify. and that time the technology was not advance to find hidden bombs. despite all these indian forces succeeded in capturing major cites and towns and force LTTE to move deep into the jungles. Only operation of IPKF which failed to meet its objective was jaffna university helidrop. all other operation was success. IPKF managed to capture the jafna city within 3 weeks.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> knock yourself out baby :
> 
> The Island
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Word has it even our pilots crushed LTTE fk (apart from Pak mil advisors on ground) during the last operation that exterminated your proxy in Lanka ... Apart from Pak supplying SL with weapons and military systems ... Even today present military chief has studied at our military institutions ..
> 
> Even today we are training SFs of various nations but unlike you we don't boast of the smallest things



buddy, that news link i posted is srilankan source (The Island and that guy who give that interview is Lankan army chief. so just shut your mouth, sri lankan army chief know much better about their army than a pakistani brainwashed idiot like you.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> So 10 guys trained by our special forces got your capital closed for days and fought off thousands of your troops ... Am I missing something here ???


those 10 terrorists trained by your special forces take hostages at the time indian special forces reaches the spot. yes you missed many facts. A small team of hight trained militants can cause more damage than 1000s of poorly trained militants. the example is hijacking of you military warship, attacking your army base, navy base, PAC and destroy AEW&C and ant-sub planes in a highly secured military complex. Taj hottal is the largest hotel in south asia. with more than 1000 rooms. so it take time to clear each and every rooms to make sure that no terrorists are holding there. hence take that delay.
and in lal masjid operation your SSG have days to put a plan to attack and the Americans also helped pakistan army. by providing information on the terrorists and they even provide an UAV to pakistan. again in Mumbai attack indian was fighting without anyone's help.

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## rezangahir

*Captured war Booty kargil (MG3,G3s,PKM,RPG and Aks)*

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## alby

hkdas said:


> COBRA commandos.. not SF


Buddy check the camo.They are army for sure,and going by the beard they are most probably SF,Also PARA SF still uses AKs and VZs in limited quantities.


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## hkdas

alby said:


> Buddy check the camo.They are army for sure,and going by the beard they are most probably SF,Also PARA SF still uses AKs and VZs in limited quantities.



bro, army's cammo is also used by COBRA commandos. that physical built is only found in cobra commandos.. because they have a dedicated gym in every regional centers. 100% sure they are not para SF.
@Unknowncommando bro, what you think on this??










cobra commando in army cammo..

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## hkdas



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## Omega007

@DESERT FIGHTER @hkdas ,stop this cat fight now,both of you.This thread is about Indian SFs and keep it limited to that only.Thank you.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hkdas said:


> couple of rebels!!??? was that coupe of rebels were you and your father??



Why bring in father's in your chutiyapan? 





> TFU you fools as an @$$  try only to argue after learning about the topic. Operation Khukri by indian forces and Operation Palliser by British SAS(British military intervention in the Sierra Leone Civil War) put an end to the Revolutionary United Front (RUF). both the operation were rescue operation of the soldiers of their respective country.
> i'm really fed up with this brainwashed pakistani fools.


Try Ghana or other countries that toon part in that operation against a bunch of "rebels" in which 8 "rebels" died lmao.



> your post are real proof that you have no knowledge on srilankan civil war, you are here just to troll and you have no idea of capability of LTTE. they are better equipped and well funded that any forces in the asia. the causality of sirlankan forces was 23,327+ killed and 60,000+ wounded..



LMAO sure I don't probably do.. considering th fact that india created them.. 

LTTE were just a bunch of armed monkeys supported by india occupying part of a small island ... Had the SLA not been a mere ceremonial army and their supply not cut .. Ltte would have been done..




> pakistan army was too afraid of putting boots on the ground, so they just marginalized themselves to an advisory role.. the pakistan army advice was such a good that the sri Lankan army start facing an unprecedented failures in almost every operation in the war




I can post pics of SSG and Pak mili advisors in their war with LTTE... Infact we have a member here whose father was part of these sent to Lanka.. @Zarrar Alvi 

And why would we have sent our boots ? 

But hey atleas apart from the usual BS you now accept that it was SSG that raised the first Sri Lankan SF unit!!!





> and india had to send IPKF to Sri lanka to save the island nation.
> there noting called tiomalee hospital massacre(may be its from your dream) if you mean 1987 trincomalee massacre then IPKF had noting to do with that, it was on 17th April 1987(3 months before IPKF was send to srilanka), just three days after Sinhala and Hindu new year, LTTE terrorist killed 130 civilians who were travelling in 3 busses and 2 lorries at Aluth Oya – Kittuluttawa in Trincomalee and if you mean Trincomalee university massacre then it was in 2006(more than a decade after indian forces left srilanka). the massacre was done by sri lankan army. and if you mean that hospital mascare alleged by IPKF then it was an operation in the jafna, at that time Jaffna was the major stronghold of LTTE. the hospital was run by LTTE to treat the injured soldiers of LTTE when indian army reach there LTTE attacked indian army convoy so IA retaliated and resulted in death of many LTTE terrorists.



Hahaha dickwad Google IPKF blunder .. The Sri Lankans didn't ask for your canon fodder it was you who jumped in another country's war and suffered thousands of casualties with ZERO to show in the end.. And we're asked to leave specially after the tricomalee massacre in which SL allege the killings of Sinhalese civilians. 



> you d!(k head, that 4000 causality of your army is said by your then and current PM. not by me or any indian media. it was all over the pakistani and indian news at that time.



Kid we all know the credibility of Nawaz .. And if he is somehow your source than he has said a lot about you ppl aswell .. Do you accept that too?? All in all he was convicted of hijacking a plane,replacing a serving COAS without following the protocol and wen into self exile after saudi intervention !

As for our casualties .. Boy they are all listed on PA site.. The names,ranks,area of martyrdom and even the causes.. their families are given pension and compensation and many were awarded for valour !




> your ISI officer(i don't remember his name) who wrote the book "putting our children on line of fire" also agreed that the the casualty report of pakistan army is wrong and the original casualty was very much
> higher than in the recorded number 543 KIA.



Your raw officer (I don remember his name) said that indian casualiies were over 1000 than the actual ones recorded .. suck it !


> no it is the causality report of your army and paramilitary. and the causality of 5000 is just a propaganda of your army. the original number is very much higher despite conducting carpet bombing of the area before putting booths on the ground. and the IED is also used by LTTE in an unprecedented scale. that cased most of the causality in indian forces in srilanka. and the pakistan army is now fighting with the help of US aid and using many of their technology. without US help pakistan army would be mascaraed by those TTP. in srilanka the IPKF was fighting a war by our own in 80s with a well equipped forces.. LTTE even have Night vision scopes on sniper rifles that too in 80s!!!. the pakistan have help from NATO. they are providing aids to pakistan to fight the war. and this is 21 century now there are many technology to find the hidden enemy and pakistan army is fighting in their won country unlike indian army who were fighting in a foreign country in an unknown terrain. at that time there was no technology existed to do a surveillance on the enemy hidden in thick forest. we don't even have any external help. even those LTTE managed to infiltrate sri lankan army. even their president at that time was pro-LTTE. he(Ranasinghe Premadasa) even supplied weapons for LTTE to fight indian forces. there is large difference in the fighting capability of LTTE and TTP.. even today the TTP is not as well equipped as LTTE in 1980s. even tho IPKF was winning the war. LTTE suicide bombers are only terrorists in this world who came with a simile in their face just before blowing themselves up. a well educated terrorists who speak fluent English, mostly they came as journalists which makes them had to identify. and that time the technology was not advance to find hidden bombs. despite all these indian forces succeeded in capturing major cites and towns and force LTTE to move deep into the jungles. Only operation of IPKF which failed to meet its objective was jaffna university helidrop. all other operation was success. IPKF managed to capture the jafna city within 3 weeks



the ramblings of a chutiye ... My father served 2 years in FATA .. 2 of my cousins are taking part in operations as we speak... Another one was just posted after serving 2 years.. So chutiye b1tching without any substance doesnt make your shitty arguement true.

As for IPKF .. Yeah sure they captured Jafna but couldn't finish the insurgency and after taking so many casualties went back home and the whole episode today is called a blunder.

Meanwhile PAK .. Trained the SL SF's,thei military,sent "advisors",armed and equipped them and by the way while you were support them (ltte) and banning arm supplies to SLA .. We were sending 2 cargo ships each week supplying the Sri Lankans ... And according to your own media .. Our Pilots were BOMBING the crap outta LTTE (no wonder even Pak diplomats in Colombo were attacked by these sorry *** bastards).



> buddy, that news link i posted is srilankan source (The Island and that guy who give that interview is Lankan army chief. so just shut your mouth, sri lankan army chief know much better about their army than a pakistani brainwashed idi



STFU you twat .. And read the article I posted which has quoted several Chiefs if SL military and top ranking officers since 1980s till 2009!

So much for your BS!


> hose 10 terrorists trained by your special forces take hostages at the time indian special forces reaches the spot. yes you missed many facts. A small team of hight trained militants can cause more damage than 1000s of poorly trained militants. the example is hijacking of you military warship, attacking your army base, navy base, PAC and destroy AEW&C and ant-sub planes in a highly secured military complex.



Didn't end up very well for those "dozens" of auicide vest wearing counts who attacked us.

But apart from that .. If I even somehow agree that SSG traine those 10 guys .. Well just imagine ..


> Taj hottal is the largest hotel in south asia. with more than 1000 rooms. so it take time to clear each and every rooms to make sure that no terrorists are holding there. hence take that delay.
> and in lal masjid operation your SSG have days to put a plan to attack and the Americans also helped pakistan army. by providing information on the terrorists and they even provide an UAV to pakistan. again in Mumbai attack indian was fighting without anyone's help.



As I said STFU .. No american was present during red mosque operation.. And not did Pak buy american UAVs except RQ series which we bought in 2010-11!


Red mosque and the adjoining Jamia hafsa madressah complex houses over 25,000 student ! Some o whom left before the operation started .. (Which was started after Lt Col Haroon and rangers were shot by sniper fire -- afte which negotiations were stopped and red mosque and madrassa raided)... In which 100 heavily armed Cold War cunts armed with RPGs,AKs with UBGLs,PK MGS,grenades and dozen of "fidayeen" SUCIDE bombers were killed and 13,00 student rescued !


The pics are in the Internet for all to see.


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## Super Commando Dhruva

This guy above with INSAS optical cover is till ON,, Just kidding , PICs are just  awesome


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## hkdas

Super Commando Dhruva said:


> This guy above with INSAS optical cover is till ON,, Just kidding , PICs are just  awesome



photo shoots.. exposure of NV devises to sunlight will case damage to the censers.

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## Srinivas

hkdas said:


> bro, army's cammo is also used by COBRA commandos. that physical built is only found in cobra commandos.. because they have a dedicated gym in every regional centers. 100% sure they are not para SF.
> @Unknowncommando bro, what you think on this??
> View attachment 237252
> View attachment 237253
> View attachment 237255
> 
> cobra commando in army cammo..
> View attachment 237256
> View attachment 237257
> View attachment 237258
> View attachment 237259



Nice pics particularly the last one !

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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Why bring in father's in your chutiyapan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try Ghana or other countries that toon part in that operation against a bunch of "rebels" in which 8 "rebels" died lmao.
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO sure I don't probably do.. considering th fact that india created them..
> 
> LTTE were just a bunch of armed monkeys supported by india occupying part of a small island ... Had the SLA not been a mere ceremonial army and their supply not cut .. Ltte would have been done..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can post pics of SSG and Pak mili advisors in their war with LTTE... Infact we have a member here whose father was part of these sent to Lanka.. @Zarrar Alvi
> 
> And why would we have sent our boots ?
> 
> But hey atleas apart from the usual BS you now accept that it was SSG that raised the first Sri Lankan SF unit!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha dickwad Google IPKF blunder .. The Sri Lankans didn't ask for your canon fodder it was you who jumped in another country's war and suffered thousands of casualties with ZERO to show in the end.. And we're asked to leave specially after the tricomalee massacre in which SL allege the killings of Sinhalese civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> Kid we all know the credibility of Nawaz .. And if he is somehow your source than he has said a lot about you ppl aswell .. Do you accept that too?? All in all he was convicted of hijacking a plane,replacing a serving COAS without following the protocol and wen into self exile after saudi intervention !
> 
> As for our casualties .. Boy they are all listed on PA site.. The names,ranks,area of martyrdom and even the causes.. their families are given pension and compensation and many were awarded for valour !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your raw officer (I don remember his name) said that indian casualiies were over 1000 than the actual ones recorded .. suck it !
> 
> 
> the ramblings of a chutiye ... My father served 2 years in FATA .. 2 of my cousins are taking part in operations as we speak... Another one was just posted after serving 2 years.. So chutiye b1tching without any substance doesnt make your shitty arguement true.
> 
> As for IPKF .. Yeah sure they captured Jafna but couldn't finish the insurgency and after taking so many casualties went back home and the whole episode today is called a blunder.
> 
> Meanwhile PAK .. Trained the SL SF's,thei military,sent "advisors",armed and equipped them and by the way while you were support them (ltte) and banning arm supplies to SLA .. We were sending 2 cargo ships each week supplying the Sri Lankans ... And according to your own media .. Our Pilots were BOMBING the crap outta LTTE (no wonder even Pak diplomats in Colombo were attacked by these sorry *** bastards).
> 
> 
> 
> STFU you twat .. And read the article I posted which has quoted several Chiefs if SL military and top ranking officers since 1980s till 2009!
> 
> So much for your BS!
> 
> 
> Didn't end up very well for those "dozens" of auicide vest wearing counts who attacked us.
> 
> But apart from that .. If I even somehow agree that SSG traine those 10 guys .. Well just imagine ..
> 
> 
> As I said STFU .. No american was present during red mosque operation.. And not did Pak buy american UAVs except RQ series which we bought in 2010-11!
> 
> 
> Red mosque and the adjoining Jamia hafsa madressah complex houses over 25,000 student ! Some o whom left before the operation started .. (Which was started after Lt Col Haroon and rangers were shot by sniper fire -- afte which negotiations were stopped and red mosque and madrassa raided)... In which 100 heavily armed Cold War cunts armed with RPGs,AKs with UBGLs,PK MGS,grenades and dozen of "fidayeen" SUCIDE bombers were killed and 13,00 student rescued !
> 
> 
> The pics are in the Internet for all to see.



Clearly you do not know anything about the LTTE and the subsequent IPKF action against it.So it would be better for you to stop your rants,get yourself educated first.
And what 'Thousands' of casualties you guys keep harping on??According to all available sources, Indian and Independent, through the three years of its stay,IPKF suffered 1200 or so casualties,not thousands.And more than half of that happened during the first six months - you know why??Cause,with the higher ups were fool enough to send the 54th infantry division to fight off the rebels.But the 54th is an air assault division and had never been envisaged or trained for jungle warfare.Naturally they found themselves in a totally alien terrain with an alien concept of operation and suffered serious losses.Besides,their standard issue SLRs were just too long for the environment,neither it could match the fire power of the AKs the LTTE rebels were armed with.These little things compounded the troubles of the 54th and added to its casualties.
But all said and done,IPKF managed to kill over 12000 guerrillas in its three years of stay,captured vast amount of rebel territories and huge caches of arms and ammunition but most importantly,the IPKF managed to put in place the government and hold the election - which was its primary objective by the way.So I can't figure out where did you come up with your opinion that IPKF failed to achieve its objectives,where it's not really the case!!And besides,how could the IPKF have finished off the remaining LTTE cadres in their last stand,when the Government of Sri Lanka didn't want us to stay there anymore??How could they have stayed when Premadasa had publicly exclaimed that he would order the Sri Lankan Army to throw the IPKF out by force,if they did not leave on their own??Do you think it would be any wise to stay put there any longer??Anyway,that bastard got what he deserved - his @ss got roasted by a suicide bomber.

And as for the LTTE being " just a bunch of armed monkeys" ,you have no idea what you are talking about!!And more than anything,do take in mind that IPKF didn't have the advantage of offensive air power (except for a couple of Mi 25s) and massed artillery support,as enjoyed by your Army involved in Zarb-e-Azb,if that makes any difference to you!!

And lastly,stop using such personal attacks,I know this is your turf but still,do try to maintain a little bit of decorum.Thank you.

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## hkdas

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Try Ghana or other countries that toon part in that operation against a bunch of "rebels" in which 8 "rebels" died lmao.



RUF is not pakistan army to runway after hearing some gunshot from enemy.
enemy causality is 34 killed and 150 wounded, indian/UNAMSIL casualty was 1 KIA and 7 wounded - according to UN report.
USI of India | An article by USI



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> LMAO sure I don't probably do.. considering th fact that india created them..



taliban/TTP is created by pakistan. do you have any idea about them?? do you know they are very poorly equipped and trained force. despite this Pakistan army show some guts to go into the operation only after carpet bombing is done by PAF. because they afraid of that poorly equipped TTP. lol.. go tell the propaganda professionalism of PA to your children may be they will believe you. we know how pathetic your army is.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> LTTE were just a bunch of armed monkeys supported by india occupying part of a small island ... Had the SLA not been a mere ceremonial army and their supply not cut .. Ltte would have been done..



As i said, you are a fool as an @$$. you don't even know what your are talking about. you are here to troll, noting else.
LTTE is considered as the most dangerous terrorist organisation in this world. they are not like the poorly equipped TTP or BLA. LTTE are very high motivated and most importantly..* LTTE don't surrender.*
here is the FBI report. FBI — Taming the Tamil Tigers
LTTE most dangerous extremist outfit: FBI - The Times of India
they carry cyanide capsules inside lockets if they saw themselves surrounded then they will eat the cyanide to suicide.. it is very hard to capture them alive. no one.. no other terrorist organisation in the world don't behave like the LTTE does. every cadets selected into the LTTE are highly motivated and ready to die at any movement. some brainwashed fools like you who are living in a propaganda world of fake patriotism of your army don't understand how dangerous the LTTE was. 




a women LTTE soldier showing her cyanide locket. 







you can se cyanide lockets in every LTTE soldiers.




a child soldier of LTTE with cyanide lockets






DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Your raw officer (I don remember his name) said that indian casualties were over 1000 than the actual ones recorded .. suck it !



insided of this Bla Bla show the source, no one said that. it is not R&AW officer. it is Shahid Aziz, head of analysis wing in ISI said that the navaz sharif was right and the causality is much more that official 573 KIA. and he also said that the causality is between 1000-4000 KIA. 







DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I can post pics of SSG and Pak mili advisors in their war with LTTE... Infact we have a member here whose father was part of these sent to Lanka.. @Zarrar Alvi
> 
> And why would we have sent our boots ?
> 
> But hey atleas apart from the usual BS you now accept that it was SSG that raised the first Sri Lankan SF unit!!!



none of pakistani SSG were in combat duty, as i said they were training the SL army. their training was such a good that the casualty rate of sri lankan soldiers start increasing in an unprecedented scale. srilanka already had SF unit, your SSG just go their to train them, your SSG's training were in such a way that the sri lankan gov. ask SAS, US army SF and Indian SF to train their soldiers. srilanka send their soldiers to indian, US, Israeli and UK's SF training schools. 


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hahaha dickwad Google IPKF blunder .. The Sri Lankans didn't ask for your canon fodder it was you who jumped in another country's war and suffered thousands of casualties with ZERO to show in the end.. And we're asked to leave specially after the tricomalee massacre in which SL allege the killings of Sinhalese civilians.



SL ask GoI to call back IPKF because ranasinghe premadasa, then precedent of srilanka was a pro-LTTE. he supplied weapons to LTTE during the time IPKF in srilanka. IPKF was winning the war, everyone knows that. IPKF force the LTTE to hide in the jungles. and during 90s IPKF was fighting the LTTE in jungles, and it was their last stand. IPKF could had have win that. but their precident ask GoI to withdraw the force and the rajiv gandhi was defeated in the election.. change in the power n delhi and SL is the reason for withdrawal of IPKF.
tricomalee massacre!!?? that massacre was done by LTTE before IPKF was send to SL.. are you rely me without reading my post??


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Kid we all know the credibility of Nawaz .. And if he is somehow your source than he has said a lot about you ppl aswell .. Do you accept that too?? All in all he was convicted of hijacking a plane,replacing a serving COAS without following the protocol and wen into self exile after saudi intervention !
> 
> As for our casualties .. Boy they are all listed on PA site.. The names,ranks,area of martyrdom and even the causes.. their families are given pension and compensation and many were awarded for valour !



not only your PM, then head of analysis wing in ISI also agreed to what your PM had said. and your army is famous for hiding causality report.. remember in 1971 you army spread news fake pakistan army victors in west pakistan to save the face of your army. so it is not new to your army hide the facts. even your generals refused to accept the dead bodes of your soldiers in kargil war. why you arguing with me?? your PM, many military officials had already agreed that those official report from the army is fake and the casualty is much more. i have posted the link above.. just read and watch it.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> As for IPKF .. Yeah sure they captured Jafna but couldn't finish the insurgency and after taking so many casualties went back home and the whole episode today is called a blunder.
> 
> Meanwhile PAK .. Trained the SL SF's,thei military,sent "advisors",armed and equipped them and by the way while you were support them (ltte) and banning arm supplies to SLA .. We were sending 2 cargo ships each week supplying the Sri Lankans ... And according to your own media .. Our Pilots were BOMBING the crap outta LTTE (no wonder even Pak diplomats in Colombo were attacked by these sorry *** bastards).



use your brain if you have any. how can indian army finish the operation when we are called back during the final battle?? we called it a blunder because initially we highly underestimate the strength of LTTE. and send the army without an understanding of the terrain. and we face some problems during initial time, that don't mean that indian army was losing the war. we call every pakistani plan to attach us a blunder, because of lack of better planing from pakistan army. if we wanted to stop supply to the SL then we could had done that. if we wanted to support LTTE then india won't allow PN ships to go 1000 miles near SL and no one would have question that. PN don't have the power to challenge indian navy. and if india continue supporting LTTE then they would have captured the power SL would be an LTTE country. you helped them because we allowed you do so. PM of india wants help them but that cannot be done overtly, this is a sensitive issue for india because of large Tamil population and the political pressure of Tamil Nadu MPs on center was hight., so our help mostly remain covert.
pls read about india's help to SL, you have no idea about the srilankan civil war, what your are arguing with is the propaganda your army teaches you. internet is your friend, read about india's help. every one including SL army chief and PM had agreed that inda's help was very crucial to win the war. india was covertly supporting SL military, IN surrounded the island nation to avoid any escape of LTTE and to stop supply of weapons to LTTE. we supplied them with radars, helicopters, intelligence on the LTTE, even Indian navy SF Marcos was deployed in active combat duty.

_It was being written by the Sri Lankan forces tacitly supported by India 
Since December 2005, when Mahinda Rajapaksa made his first visit to New Delhi less than a month after he took over as Sri Lanka's president, India was aware of his intention to take the LTTE head on.

Yet, in early 2006, India quietly gifted five Mi-17 helicopters to the Sri Lankan air force. The only Indian condition was: These helicopters would fly under Sri Lankan air force colours. New Delhi clearly did not want to annoy UPA's Tamil Nadu allies like the DMK unnecessarily

The Mi-17s were in addition to a Sukanya Class offshore patrol vessel gifted by the Indian Coast Guard to the Sri Lankan navy in 2002. 

And publicly all that India was willing to acknowledge was the supply of low-flying detection 'Indra' radars to the Sri Lankan air force since this equipment was considered a defensive apparatus.

Sri Lankan leadership once again gratefully acknowledged the Indian Navy's contribution in locating and destroying at least 10 'floating warehouses' owned by the LTTE.

The Indian Navy, the Sri Lankans said, helped in various ways.
For instance, the Indian Navy's Dorniers based at Ramnad in Tamil Nadu flew regular reconnaissance missions over the seas around Sri Lanka. These Dornier aircraft, fitted with high-powered radar, scoured the area for ships with suspicious movement and cargo.
Whenever such a ship was detected, the Indian Navy passed on the information to the Sri Lankans. The real time intelligence helped the Sri Lankan navy track and then destroy LTTE arms consignments.

Moreover, under an agreement between the two countries, the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard frequently sent out ships to patrol the Palk Strait and the Gulf of Mannar. The presence of warships and Indian Coast Guards's OPVs acted as a firm deterrence against the Sea Tigers. 
Indian naval ships traveling between the east and the west coast and those going on overseas deployment were also told to look out for rogue vessels. Frequent exchange of information between the two navies resulted in a fine-tuned system that enabled quick remedial action.

Sri Lanka's navy chief Admiral Wasantha Karannagoda praised the Indian Navy's role. 'Cooperation with India has been extremely successful in countering the LTTE. Every year, the Indian Navy with the Indian Coast Guard and the Sri Lankan navy, holds four bilateral discussions. We are conducting coordinated patrols with the Indian Navy as well,' he said in early 2008.

'The navy has destroyed almost all LTTE vessels that could have assisted the Tigers in attacking the armed forces,' he said. 'Within one year, we have destroyed eight floating warehouses, which had carried more than 10,000 tonnes of war-like material including artillery, mortar, dismantled parts of three aircrafts, bullet proof vehicles, underwater delivery vehicles, scuba diving sets, and radar, among other things.'
according to sources in both Indian and Sri Lankan navies, was India's hidden hand in providing vital intelligence and operational support to identify and locate these ships. 
in late 2007, the Indian Navy's Southern Command deployed three fast attack boats and a missile corvette that patrolled the Palk Straits, searched and caught hold of LTTE fugitives.
In May 2007, the Sea Tigers mounted a daring attack on the naval attachment posted at Delft Island and after killing seven naval personnel, took away two anti aircraft machine guns, two machine guns, one RPG launcher and eight rifles.
Some reports said the Sea Tigers also took away functioning radar from the island. Jolted by this setback, the Sri Lankan navy requested India for operational help. The assistance was immediately given, but both sides had decided to keep quiet about the details._(i think the was the operation in which the marcos was deployed.)




indian navy Marcos with SL personals. ps- pics was taken during the anniversary of war on LTTE, not during actual combat. 

How India secretly helped Lanka destroy the LTTE - Rediff.com News



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> As I said STFU .. No american was present during red mosque operation.. And not did Pak buy american UAVs except RQ series which we bought in 2010-11!


_Predator unmanned aerial vehicles flew over Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsaon July 8 and July 9 capturing images of the movements of people inside_





COMPARATIVE STUDY OF EDITORIAL TREATMENT OF DAWN AND THE NEWS REGARDING LAL MASJID OPERATION | THE INTERNATIONAL ASIAN RESEARCH JOURNAL - Academia.edu 

don't you know that PAF don't operate predator UAV?
so much your knowledge on the operations done in your country
picture taken by american UAV.




only predator UAV can take such a clarity pics from the sky. 

i don't want to argue with you any more. you are trying to troll, i reply to your posts with links to support what i said. this thread is not about SSG or Srilankan war. if you want to continue the argument then you can start a page. i will provide more details on Srilankan civil war and india's support to srilankan military and many other things you don't know.

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## Omega007

The LTTE had a multitude of armored personnel carriers and even a handful of T 55 tanks and 152mm artillery guns!!Compared to that,the TTP is just a bunch of poorly armed monkeys.

And here is something for you @DESERT FIGHTER :

" In the north, the LTTE were facing off against the Indian Peace Keeping Force. The Indian presence on the island was unpopular, and Premadasa requested India to leave. In order to force IPKF to leave the island, he authorized a clandestine operation to supply arms to LTTE according to the report published by the Sri Lankan Presidential commission to inquire into the 1992 assassination of one of the senior most officers in the Sri Lankan army, Lt Gen Denzil Kobbekaduwa.The inquiry also found that Premadasa ordered clandestine supply of arms to LTTE. In the end, LTTE massacred 774 policemen using the same weapons he had given to LTTE (the policemen were asked to surrender to LTTE in Batticaloa at Premadasa's request).After the IPKF left in 1990, the government's war with the LTTE resumed, and resulted in stalemate."

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## rezangahir

Operation Pawan 1987 (IPKF neutralize LTTE in and around Jafana something that Lankans failed to achieve for several years)

IPKF 40+ KIA

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## Unknowncommando

NSG ALONG WITH COBRA

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## Jamwal's



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## hkdas



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## Mujraparty

@Abingdonboy









CREDITS TO ORIGINAL POSTER @ ***

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## Abingdonboy

eowyn said:


> @Abingdonboy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CREDITS TO ORIGINAL POSTER @ ***



Very nice !!!


It is interesting to see that this Sherpa isn't the "assaulter" version the NSG had previously showcased:













So they must have multiple variants/versions for different purposes. I would like to know how many Sherpas of different variants/versions the NSG have, and how many they have distributed to their hubs.

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## alby

*S.F.F/S.G*
























#picCourtesy@Ghost

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## alby

S.G insignia.

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## hkdas

@alby, it looks like, only the last two pics are SG.. all others are just SFF

BTW.. nice pics bro,

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## hkdas

NSG commandos... phantoms(?)








@Abingdonboy, which weapons in 2nd pics??

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> NSG commandos... phantoms(?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy, which weapons in 2nd pics??


No reason to think they are "Phantoms", 51 SAG most likely.



+Looks like a SIG 552 to me bro


++ @hkdas GREAT find

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> No reason to think they are "Phantoms", 51 SAG most likely.
> 
> 
> 
> +Looks like a SIG 552 to me bro
> 
> 
> ++ @hkdas GREAT find


there uniform is different.. that are wearing black t-shirts!!.. and their body built is quite different.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> there uniform is different.. that are wearing black t-shirts!!.. and their body built is quite different.


It's not the first time we've seen pics of NSG operators in T-shirts- this is purely for on-base training, this isn't their operational uniform. This is not indicative of them being "Phantoms".

As for their body build being different- I can't say, they look as built as many other operators, don't forget the gear the NSG guys wear these days is far more bulky (and offers far more protection) than the junk they were made to wear a few years back so this may skew the impression.

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## alby

hkdas said:


> @alby, it looks like, only the last two pics are SG.. all others are just SFF
> 
> BTW.. nice pics bro,


Donno buddy , the person who posted it originally confirmed they are from SG,and he said this had busted the myth that SG is comprised of only Indians.

Also about NSG guys,like abingdonnboy said,it too couldn't be clarified just because these guys wear some different type cool Tshit.Any way they could have mount the hollowgraphic scopes of Aimpoint or Eoctech or Israeli Mepro lite sights instead of this Acog sights,as Meprolite,Eoctech or aimpoint are far better in close quarter fighting.


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## Jamwal's



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## hkdas

alby said:


> Donno buddy , the person who posted it originally confirmed they are from SG,and he said this had busted the myth that SG is comprised of only Indians.
> 
> Also about NSG guys,like abingdonnboy said,it too couldn't be clarified just because these guys wear some different type cool Tshit.Any way they could have mount the hollowgraphic scopes of Aimpoint or Eoctech or Israeli Mepro lite sights instead of this Acog sights,as Meprolite,Eoctech or aimpoint are far better in close quarter fighting.


only the 2nd last soldier have an SG insignia, there is not even a single commando who have SG insignia in 3rd last, 4th last and 5th last pics. and that pics of para jumping are static line jumping. SG's specialization is in advance insertion techniques like HALO/HAHO. remember commandos in SG are on deputation from special forces they don't practice static line jumping when they are in SG because they are already mastered in that, at the time the joined the Special forces. with only 5 years of service in SG, their training are more advance. only SFF practice static line jumping. 

BTW, SG was 1st created with 250 men from SFF + 250 men from army. 


Jamwal's said:


> View attachment 239948


marcos.


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## Jamwal's

hkdas said:


> only the 2nd last soldier have an SG insignia, there is not even a single commando who have SG insignia in 3rd last, 4th last and 5th last pics. and that pics of para jumping are static line jumping. SG's specialization is in advance insertion techniques like HALO/HAHO. remember commandos in SG are on deputation from special forces they don't practice static line jumping when they are in SG because they are already mastered in that, at the time the joined the Special forces. with only 5 years of service in SG, their training are more advance. only SFF practice static line jumping.
> 
> BTW, SG was 1st created with 250 men from SFF + 250 men from army.
> 
> marcos.


U sure Bro ?

AFAIK Marcos don't use PATKA


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## hkdas

Jamwal's said:


> U sure Bro ?
> 
> AFAIK Marcos don't use PATKA


that BJ is used by marcos.. but that weapon sight is only used by army SF, and that helmet is not PATKA, you can see a NVG holder on the helmet of 2nd commando...

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> marcos.


Not MARCOs bro, they don't use MARS on their Tavors- Army SF are the only unit in India using such sights on their Tavors.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Not MARCOs bro, they don't use MARS on their Tavors- Army SF are the only unit in India using such sights on their Tavors.


 marcos use that weapon sight.. but on MP5.. that helmet and BJ look similar to the helmet used by marcos. 
are they SFF??


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## Abingdonboy

+


hkdas said:


> marcos use that weapon sight.. but on MP5.. that helmet and BJ look similar to the helmet used by marcos.
> are they SFF??


MARCOs use that sight on the MP-5s (and AKs) but NOT their Tavors, SFF/SG don't use the MARS either- these guys are Army SF bro.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> +
> 
> MARCOs use that sight on the MP-5s (and AKs) but NOT their Tavors, SFF/SG don't use the MARS either- these guys are Army SF bro.



but that BJ and helmets are not used by army.(i don't know if that use it now).
MARS was used by SFF. now they replace it with Meprolight MEPRO 21 Reflex Sight


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## alby

That aint MARCO but PARA,by just checking the sights of TAVORs you could differentiate both.

The helmet of first & third soldiera are Patkas.The 2nd one wears the new infantryy helmet,all army issue.


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## hkdas




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## Koovie

MARCOS












Police?

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## Jamwal's

Koovie said:


> MARCOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police?


NSG


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## Wolfhound

Koovie said:


>


Is that an underbarrel shotgun or grenade launcher?


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## Fenrir

Wolfhound said:


> Is that an underbarrel shotgun or grenade launcher?



It's a taser attachment:

X-Rail Mounting System | Officer.com

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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> MARCOS



rajeev ranjan!!!! is he back with wathan ka ragwale in NDTV??.... is this an old pics or new? any idea?? 
his dress looks like the same one in this pics.

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## Wolfhound

Technogaianist said:


> It's a taser attachment:
> 
> X-Rail Mounting System | Officer.com


It was my first guess but i didnt know that they even existed.


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Police?



NSG Bro.



hkdas said:


> rajeev ranjan!!!! is he back with wathan ka ragwale in NDTV??.... is this an old pics or new? any idea??
> his dress looks like the same one in this pics.



I'd say this was an old pic from when NDTV did a piece on the Andaman Island's military setup a few years back,

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## Jamwal's

SFF and Polish Army joint expedition Mt. NUN














Nun Kun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Abingdonboy



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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


>





Its nice to see Indian SF's getting nice goodies these days. It would be great if IA modernized the same way. The pace of infantry modernization is dangerously slow. With money not being a problem I would say it's the wrong attitude of netas(congressis) and even Army's old guards.


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## Koovie

hkdas said:


> rajeev ranjan!!!! is he back with wathan ka ragwale in NDTV??.... is this an old pics or new? any idea??
> his dress looks like the same one in this pics.
> View attachment 240799



His dress looks always the same ^^ 

I guess he is shooting an episode about the MARCOS (finally)


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## hkdas

Koovie said:


> I guess he is shooting an episode about the MARCOS (finally)


he already have... that is the problem. that program is just 2 mins video

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## Abingdonboy

@hkdas @Koovie the video where Rajeev Ranjan covered the MARCOs:






13.17-

The vid is over 4 years old

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> @hkdas @Koovie the video where Rajeev Ranjan covered the MARCOs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13.17-
> 
> The vid is over 4 years old


yes, i know bro... here is the video. 
नेवी के जांबाज़ मार्कोस

*marcos during Jammu and Kashmir floods*
*



*

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Most of these guys are actually Naval divers, very few MARCOs were actually deployed in this operation, they were more there in a advisory role and it looks like it was senior MARCOs (NCOs and officers) there to assist/lead the IN diver teams.




+ anyone else hear about the NSG testing the FN SCAR and HK 417 the past month? 

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @hkdas @bloo @Water Car Engineer @jiki @Koovie

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## Abingdonboy

The SPG weren't messing around with the PM's security in Bihar:










































I've never seen so many SPG personnel around the PM's vehicle whilst providing mobile protection and they even deployed the CAT in a very aggressive fashion to cover the ingress and egress routes (again not seen this before).

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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> The SPG weren't messing around with the PM's security in Bihar:
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> I've never seen so many SPG personnel around the PM's vehicle whilst providing mobile protection and they even deployed the CAT in a very aggressive fashion to cover the ingress and egress routes (again not seen this before).




Bihar is very unsafe. Note that in 2013 there was a bomb attack in a rally in Patna to target him.


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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> Bihar is very unsafe. Note that in 2013 there was a bomb attack in a rally in Patna to target him.


Just a few days before Modi visited there was this:
IB warns of human bomb attack during Modi's Bihar visit : India, News - India Today


I knew the SPG wouldn't be taking any chances

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## being humane

why the gun is bent, can any one tell me?

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## Abingdonboy

being humane said:


> View attachment 241012
> 
> why the gun is bent, can any one tell me?


It's a Cornershot-type weapon

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## being humane

Abingdonboy said:


> It's a Cornershot-type weapon


Thanks bro. this is already inducted or in consideration.


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## Abingdonboy

being humane said:


> Thanks bro. this is already inducted or in consideration.


All 3 SFs (PARA (SF), MARCOs and Garuds) have this weapon in service as do the NSG and many state/city special response units. The RR is also looking to induct this weapon .

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> It's a Cornershot-type weapon



video of DRDO's corner shot











Abingdonboy said:


> Most of these guys are actually Naval divers, very few MARCOs were actually deployed in this operation, they were more there in a advisory role and it looks like it was senior MARCOs (NCOs and officers) there to assist/lead the IN diver teams.
> 
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @hkdas @bloo @Water Car Engineer @jiki @Koovie



that commander Subramaniyan and that guys throwing food packages and the man who ride that boat are marcos. 



Abingdonboy said:


> + anyone else hear about the NSG testing the FN SCAR and HK 417 the past month?
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @hkdas @bloo @Water Car Engineer @jiki @Koovie



why you ask bro?? never heard NSG conducting trail on FN SCAR or HK 416... 2 years ago i heard a rummer about marcos conducting trial on H&K 416. no news after that. there is a chance for PARA SF will induct FN SCAR as SG have it.

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> why you ask bro?? never heard NSG conducting trail on FN SCAR or HK 416... 2 years ago i heard a rummer about marcos conducting trial on H&K 416. no news after that. there is a chance for PARA SF will induct FN SCAR as SG have it.



I ask because I heard from a friend that HK officials visited Manesar last month to monitor trials of the HK 416/7 for the SAG. 

+ I don't know if the PARA (SF) are interested in the FN SCAR, they have Tavors and M4s, the SG simply get whatever weapons they want hence why you see them with the FN SCAR (as well as many other exotic weapons).

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> I ask because I heard from a friend that HK officials visited Manesar last month to monitor trials of the HK 416/7 for the SAG.
> 
> + I don't know if the PARA (SF) are interested in the FN SCAR, they have Tavors and M4s, the SG simply get whatever weapons they want hence why you see them with the FN SCAR (as well as many other exotic weapons).



bro, i think those are H&K 416.





that standing commando holds 416. that is not mp-5 or 552


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## Star Wars

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/625342989586403328

What is a Delta force ?


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## hkdas

Star Wars said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/625342989586403328
> 
> What is a Delta force ?



rashtriya rifles...

Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) R / Romeo Force – Rajouri and Poonch
Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) D / Delta Force – Doda
Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) V / Victor Force – Anantnag, Pulwama and Badgam
Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) K / Kilo Force – Kupwara, Baramulla and Srinagar
Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) U / Uniform Force – Udhampur and Banihal

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> bro, i think those are H&K 416.
> View attachment 241046
> 
> that standing commando holds 416. that is not mp-5 or 552
> View attachment 241047


That's definitely a SIG-552 bro!

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## Fenrir

hkdas said:


> bro, i think those are H&K 416.
> View attachment 241046
> 
> that standing commando holds 416. that is not mp-5 or 552
> View attachment 241047



I'm going to say it's a SIG552:





It's the stock that does it for me.











I know the HK416 from my time in the RNoAF - it was our standard weapon (we used the HK416N), the stock in the first pic doesn't look like that of a HK416, it looks like a SIG552. A one-piece stock that curves near the receiver? That's not how the 416 is (as seen below), that's a 552.

The 416's stock is collapsible and doesn't curve near the receiver like the 552's. It goes straight back into the shooter's shoulder.






You can hide the curve with a cheek rest though, but there isn't one in the pic of the Indian Operator.



Abingdonboy said:


> That's definitely a SIG-552 bro!



Definitely, anything to add to my analysis? Or anything to correct?

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## Abingdonboy

Technogaianist said:


> Definitely, anything to add to my analysis? Or anything to correct?


The only thing I would add is that the magazine also looks to be translucent polymer as is standard for the SIG-550/2/3.


-------------------------------------









NSG drills in Visakhapatnam.



+ the team is from the Hyderabad NSG hub. 



@hkdas @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @bloo @Capt.Popeye @MilSpec @janon @Star Wars @anyrandom @eowyn @alby @Jamwal's

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## hkdas

Technogaianist said:


> I'm going to say it's a SIG552:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the stock that does it for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the HK416 from my time in the RNoAF - it was our standard weapon (we used the HK416N), the stock in the first pic doesn't look like that of a HK416, it looks like a SIG552. A one-piece stock that curves near the receiver? That's not how the 416 is (as seen below), that's a 552.
> 
> The 416's stock is collapsible and doesn't curve near the receiver like the 552's. It goes straight back into the shooter's shoulder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can hide the curve with a cheek rest though, but there isn't one in the pic of the Indian Operator.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely, anything to add to my analysis? Or anything to correct?


thanks for that info bro..


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## SRP



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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> The only thing I would add is that the magazine also looks to be translucent polymer as is standard for the SIG-550/2/3.
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> NSG drills in Visakhapatnam.
> 
> 
> 
> + the team is from the Hyderabad NSG hub.
> 
> 
> 
> @hkdas @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @bloo @Capt.Popeye @MilSpec @janon @Star Wars @anyrandom @eowyn @alby @Jamwal's


are those helmets used by marcos and NSg are same(russian helmet) type??


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## SRP

This pic is from Grudaspur Op.

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## SRP

From Gurdaspur OP

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## Unknowncommando

Para sf and punjab swat

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## Koovie

Everyone seems to be in love with the Tavors


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## alby

Well i am not...I still love the rugged power of Russian AKs aand Check VZs over plastic weapons .


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## Jamwal's

Similar terrorists attack carried out in J&k few months back

Para SF at rajbagh police station








Koovie said:


> Everyone seems to be in love with the Tavors


Ordnance Factory Board

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## Koovie

Jamwal's said:


> View attachment 241368
> View attachment 241367
> 
> View attachment 241369
> 
> 
> Similar terrorists attack carried out in J&k few months back
> 
> Para SF at rajbagh police station
> 
> View attachment 241371
> 
> 
> 
> Ordnance Factory Board




AFAIK Zittara sadly never became a reality. All Tavors are made in Israel. My real concern though is the lack of protection for our men :/


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## Jamwal's

Koovie said:


> AFAIK Zittara sadly never became a reality. All Tavors are made in Israel. My real concern though is the lack of protection for our men :/


All paramilitary including crpf cobra use zittara not Tavor.


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## Koovie

Jamwal's said:


> All paramilitary including crpf cobra use zittara not Tavor.



Nope, pretty sure that those X - 95s are imported.


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## Super Commando Dhruva

Jamwal's said:


> All paramilitary including crpf cobra use zittara not Tavor.


Are You sure. ?


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## Koovie

Super Commando Dhruva said:


> Are You sure. ?



Most do, BSF, CRPF, various state police forces etc but not all


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## danish_vij

Unknowncommando said:


>


identify the weapon please!!! is it M4?


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## Koovie

danish_vij said:


> identify the weapon please!!! is it M4?


Yup. Its an M4... has been in service with the Paras for some time now to supplement their main assault rifle (=Tar 21)

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## danish_vij

Koovie said:


> Yup. Its an M4... has been in service with the Paras for some time now to supplement their main assault rifle (=Tar 21)


i know its in service but rarely i have seen those in real combat use mostly they are holding tavors and ak's

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## Jamwal's

Super Commando Dhruva said:


> Are You sure. ?


By all I meant paramilitary troops deployed in anti terror ops.


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## bloo

danish_vij said:


> i know its in service but rarely i have seen those in real combat use mostly they are holding tavors and ak's

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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

-----------------------



The pathetically turned out Punjab SWAT team:

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> -----------------------
> 
> 
> 
> The pathetically turned out Punjab SWAT team:



Dont be too harsh, at least they got everything right below their waistlines


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Dont be too harsh, at least they got everything right below their waistlines


But where are their helmets? Their BPJs? Their webbing? They get shot in the torso- game over. They get shot in the head- game over. They run through the 30 bullets in their magazine, run into a terrorist but have no additional magazines-game over.

Not to mention how unprofessional they look running around in nothing but T-shirts with "SWAT- ULTIMATE" on them. Where the heck is the rest of their gear???

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## Koovie

Abingdonboy said:


> But where are their helmets? Their BPJs? Their webbing? They get shot in the torso- game over. They get shot in the head- game over. They run through the 30 bullets in their magazine, run into a terrorist but have no additional magazines-game over.
> 
> Not to mention how unprofessional they look running around in nothing but T-shirts with "SWAT- ULTIMATE" on them. Where the heck is the rest of their gear???



My comment was actually not meant to be serious bro 

I was just kidding^^

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## Abingdonboy

SPG:

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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> But where are their helmets? Their BPJs? Their webbing? They get shot in the torso- game over. They get shot in the head- game over. They run through the 30 bullets in their magazine, run into a terrorist but have no additional magazines-game over.
> 
> Not to mention how unprofessional they look running around in nothing but T-shirts with "SWAT- ULTIMATE" on them. Where the heck is the rest of their gear???



Exactly, they should have just let the NSG handle everything.
Its possible the NSG would have done it faster maybe with less casualties.


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## Folkhindusnsikhs

Hey rock! they don't look so 'special' to me.


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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> Exactly, they should have just let the NSG handle everything.
> Its possible the NSG would have done it faster maybe with less casualties.


It is the job of these local/state special response teams to contain and handle all such emergencies until the NSG arrives on the scene in the case of emergencies. In order to do this these local/state teams need to be VERY well equipped and trained so as to stand in the way of any such morons and ensure the situation does not escalate. Punjab's SWAT team looks good at PR events but when the brown stuff hit the fan they were made to look pretty amateur (IMHO) and VERY unprofessional.


And this sentiment is clearly echoed by others:

'It's Been Years,' Says Punjab Chief Minister On Poorly Equipped Cops Fighting Terror



As an aside, the NSG/local special response units should adopt a similar approach to the US and the FBI's SWAT (NSG equivalent to a degree). In this sense the local/state special response teams have to undergo a mandatory assessment of their skills and capabilities every few years in front of FBI SWAT instructors. If the local team fails they will not receive federal funding. Considering a lot of the special response teams raised post-26/11 were done so using central funds it is not unreasonable to make sure the money has been well spent by the GoI.

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## Unknowncommando

Punjab SWAT. Why the hell they didn't wear their full kit. They have all the stuff but still during operation they just wore a t shirt. Can anybody tell why this happened?




Marcos (old pic)
ID the gun @Abingdonboy @hkdas @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## alby

Unknowncommando said:


> Punjab SWAT. Why the hell they didn't wear their full kit. They have all the stuff but still during operation they just wore a t shirt. Can anybody tell why this happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcos (old pic)
> ID the gun @Abingdonboy @hkdas @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


Image noot visible


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## Koovie

Unknowncommando said:


> Punjab SWAT. Why the hell they didn't wear their full kit. They have all the stuff but still during operation they just wore a t shirt. Can anybody tell why this happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcos (old pic)
> ID the gun @Abingdonboy @hkdas @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


Same here, cant see it


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## kurup

@Koovie , @alby , @Unknowncommando , @Abingdonboy , @bloo

It looks like the Punjab SWAT is not wearing any BPJ or helmet because they lack it .... It's because that's the way they fight 

This is what DGP of Punjab had to say ,


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/626391092976431104

The sad part is , this picture below shows he may be actually right

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## bloo

kurup said:


> @Koovie , @alby , @Unknowncommando , @Abingdonboy , @bloo
> 
> It looks like the Punjab SWAT is not wearing any BPJ or helmet because they lack it .... It's because that's the way they fight
> 
> This is what DGP of Punjab had to say ,
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/626391092976431104
> 
> We can argue that he may be lying but the sad part is , this picture below shows he may be actually right
> 
> View attachment 242762



Well their 'mundes' have never been hit by a 7.62×39mm, one of the world's hardest hitting calibers. 
So apparently ignorance is bliss or rather arrogance for these noobs.

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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> @Koovie , @alby , @Unknowncommando , @Abingdonboy , @bloo
> 
> It looks like the Punjab SWAT is not wearing any BPJ or helmet because they lack it .... It's because that's the way they fight
> 
> This is what DGP of Punjab had to say ,
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/626391092976431104
> 
> The sad part is , this picture below shows he may be actually right
> 
> View attachment 242762


Just shows how utterly unprofessional and inexperienced this unit is, no CT unit worth its salt would utter such nonsense, this is beyond embarrassing. 



F*cking clowns.

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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> Just shows how utterly unprofessional and inexperienced this unit is, no CT unit worth its salt would utter such nonsense, this is beyond embarrassing.
> 
> 
> 
> F*cking clowns.



I don't want to sound regionalist or offensive but I think this punjabi machoism has been the reason our neighboring country has gone down the hole since they are totally dominated by punjabis. I think people of punjab lack systemic thinking. They are more aggresive which definately has it's merits but it cannot replace cold and systemic thinking.


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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> I don't want to sound regionalist or offensive but I think this punjabi machoism has been the reason our neighboring country has gone down the hole since they are totally dominated by punjabis. I think people of punjab lack systemic thinking. They are more aggresive which definately has it's merits but it cannot replace cold and systemic thinking.


This is far too simplistic an explanation bro. if this were the case of one undisciplined/macho force then fine but look all over India, there are few (if any) examples of world class police units. The few that have been raised have only been done in RESPONSE to 26/11 so it is not the case that others in India are doing better.

This is a systemic issue in the IPS in my opinion, they just don't seem to have the right mindset, they seem stuck in the 1910s (sadly this isn't even an exaggeration).


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## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> This is far too simplistic an explanation bro. if this were the case of one undisciplined/macho force then fine but look all over India, there are few (if any) examples of world class police units. The few that have been raised have only been done in RESPONSE to 26/11 so it is not the case that others in India are doing better.
> 
> This is a systemic issue in the IPS in my opinion, they just don't seem to have the right mindset, they seem stuck in the 1910s (sadly this isn't even an exaggeration).



What can be done to change it? I think that it's a slow process and it will atleast take a decade to change anything in the police sphere even if a lot is done now. I don't think this decadal timeline is exaggeration,infact this is a very optimistic timeline because this is the reality on ground.


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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> What can be done to change it? I think that it's a slow process and it will atleast take a decade to change anything in the police sphere even if a lot is done now. I don't think this decadal timeline is exaggeration,infact this is a very optimistic timeline because this is the reality on ground.


I'm not sure what exactly needs to be done but it is clear something needs to be done, in fact a LOT needs to be done. Whilst the rest of India (military, CAPFs, infra sector, auto industry, aviation, medicine, IT etc etc) are intent on moving forward and going for the cutting edge the police in India seem perfectly happy to sit in the 1910s/20s and brag about the smallest of achievements that other police forces brought in decades ago!


It really is not an exaggeration to say that the average Indian police officer on the street is amongst the worst trained and equipped police officers in the world- including Africa. 

Ever now and then you'll hear someone in authority talking about modernising the police but this never translates onto the ground. Yes many police forces have raised adequately equipped/trained specialist CT units but this is utterly irrelevant, they aren't the issue, it is the state of the average beat officer that is most disturbing in India and the utter lack of a modern policing culture.


It is beyond embarrassing:










































+ a decade to turn this around is MASSIVELY optimistic, right now the IPS is about 90 years behind the rest of the world- if not more.

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## Jamwal's



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## cloud_9

Abingdonboy said:


> Just shows how utterly unprofessional and inexperienced this unit is, no CT unit worth its salt would utter such nonsense, this is beyond embarrassing.
> 
> 
> 
> F*cking clowns.


Professional ? 
Only those who can't get job anywhere else and can pay bribes,end up in Punjab Police.


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## Abingdonboy

The DJANGO said:


> Hey,
> 
> The reason why Punjab SWAT was under equipped was because they were in a exercise with NSG and they didnt feel right to carry their gear in an exercise.


You realise this is the most nonsensical explanation my friend? When else would you use all your gear but in an exercise? I have heard they were in Amritsar conducting a training exercise so this may well be correct, I haven't heard this exercise was with the NSG though, but this does not account for their lack of gear.

The explanation that the Police are giving themselves, as stupid and unprofessional as it sounds, is that this is how they like to fight.

Hopefully the bad publicity they have had after this mess will mean they follow their own SOPs and actually wear the gear for future ops.

+ @django has it been confirmed the terrorist was caught by SF?

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## Unknowncommando

terrorist from pak captured on NH1A by police PARAS in background

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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> + @django has it been confirmed the terrorist was caught by SF?



Apparently he was caught by 2 brother in laws before they handed him to the security forces.

He must have thought the drivel they taught about Kashmiris being subjugated and living in fear of IA to be true.

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## Capt.Popeye

The DJANGO said:


> Hey,
> 
> The reason why Punjab SWAT was under equipped was because they were in a exercise with NSG and they didnt feel right to carry their gear in an exercise.




NICE STORY......

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## Sneaker

Unknowncommando said:


> terrorist from pak captured on NH1A by police PARAS in background


That terrorist laying dead, headshot...

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## Capt.Popeye

The DJANGO said:


> I watched it on 9x News



I'm still telling you that its a NICE STORY; even if you saw it on "Heaven TV". 

The real reason is that Punjab Police guys have been resting on their butts, in the last decade and a half; while raking it in from 'haftas' from Drug-Runners or running errands for the SAD guys.
They sure need a harder kick on their 56 inch back-sides. If they don't learn from this 'trailer'.

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## SRP

IAF Garuds in recently completed IndraDhanush exercise in UK.

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## MMG

7,500 strong *National Security Guard *are one of elite forces of the world. They are trained for best but the job they do at present is babysit politicians which is something i seriously disagree with. They should be sent in battle and beyond enemy lines operations... or maybe that is classified?

Wow! Those are nice pics.


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## Koovie

Sykox said:


> 7,500 strong *National Security Guard *are one of elite forces of the world. They are trained for best but the job they do at present is babysit politicians which is something i seriously disagree with. They should be sent in battle and beyond enemy lines operations... or maybe that is classified?
> 
> Wow! Those are nice pics.


NSG are not meant for military ops behind enemy lines... they are a domestic counter terrorism unit

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## MMG

That is really stupid then... do indians have any elite military for that is meant for aggression and not on defencive nature to save live and retreat?


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## bloo

Sykox said:


> That is really stupid then... do indians have any elite military for that is meant for aggression and not on defencive nature to save live and retreat?



Marcos, PARA (SF), Special Frontier Force.

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## MMG

I know them all... None of them are elite.. little better training and weapons then regular jawan and homeguard hawaldar... I mean on the lines on US Navy SEALs.... NSG does has such aura around it though.


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## alby

Please do explain how the hell you come too the conclusion that PARA,SG,MARCOS are not elite?How many opperators you had met or how many operations you had seen which they had conducted?And comparing the capabilities of PARA,SG or MARCO, NSG is nowhere near any of them.NSG is just elite and the rest are Special Forces.Ok you come to the conclusion just because unlike hollywood flicks our men are not investing much on costume parties..

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## MMG

Whoa buddy... clam down. Am sorry for the insensitive remarks. I did not base my remaks on Media potrayal. But you could be right that since our government keeps armed forces on very light leash and not many details come out.. these guys could be great but again I stand to my point that these forces have no elite aura around them... none like SEALs and none of the missions they have undertaken have they shown any exception... I could list a few Operation Black Tornado OR Anti-Piracy. Whatever... we are not superpower and nor do we have such resources so given our limitations...these guys are really good


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## alby

special said:


> cg use optical sight with zooming capability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carl Gustav recoilless rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia read this.
> 
> cg uses Open (iron) sights, optical 3×, laser rangefinder, image intensification system which will increase accuracy. RPG uses only iron sight







Well you haven't met Airtronic RPG7 yet.

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## Omega007

MilSpec said:


> @Slav Defence , is it ok to negatively rate such deliberate trolling and derailing?



Bhai,gadhatar pi6one time waste kore ki laav??

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## TaimiKhan

@al_asad_al_mulk

Next time you will get banned.

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## Unknowncommando

10 Aug 2015
60 Parachute Field Hospital the only airborne medical unit of AFMS celebrated its 74th raising day at Agra.




PARA SF

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> So where are we lacking?We have NVGs,HHTI,UAV,portable radars,best rifles,C130 etc and have a very capable SF which may not and need not be the best in the world but are best in the region for sure.
> 
> We have a proud history with our SF completing every given task.
> 
> Regarding the Nahan base.It is a Headquater for the SF unit which is sent to Kashmir.All the companies of the unit serve in Kashmir on rotation and Nahan serves as the base lik*e Xyz base in Assam serves as a base for all SF in North East*


you mean this one??
_With the Army's Special Forces being trained at Jorhat in Assam, the IAF has been carrying out regular drills for Special Operations, particularly during the night. _
_Panagarh air base gears up for special operations - The Times of India 
@Abingdonboy_


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## skysthelimit

alby said:


> Well you haven't met Airtronic RPG7 yet.


That's a strange location for the sight. How are you going to look through it?


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## alby

Hope now you know, how you are going to look through it..

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## skysthelimit

alby said:


> Hope now you know, how you are going to look through it..



That's an ACOG sight - don't think the reflex sight in the original pic has enough clearence for your cheek. So you basically have to bend your head sideways to use it.

The sideways sight seems much more convenient.


----------



## bloo



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## alby

skysthelimit said:


> That's an ACOG sight - don't think the reflex sight in the original pic has enough clearence for your cheek. So you basically have to bend your head sideways to use it.
> 
> The sideways sight seems much more convenient.


Don't think that would be a problem,as in case of rifles too such bending had to be done,but in case of an RPG the shooting happens not frequently,so that shouldn't e a major issue.





Could any one say what type of sighs are in this Russian AkMs?


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## hkdas

alby said:


> Could any one say what type of sighs are in this Russian AkMs?



that is flash light.. not weapon sight.






digital cammo on draganov

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## hkdas

old pics...

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## being humane

Garud commandoes

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## hkdas

being humane said:


> Garud commandoes



taken in 2005.


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## being humane

hkdas said:


> taken in 2005.


in 2004 bro

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## hkdas

being humane said:


> in 2004 bro



AFAIK it is taken during the time of 2005 aero india.

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## hkdas

J-K: Marine Commandos motivate youth to join Defence Force - Mumbai Mirror


The people of Sopore in Jammu and Kashmir praised the efforts of the Army for organizing an excellent demonstration for them. A breathtaking display of commando skills was organized on Thursday on Pohru River at Sopore by 5 Sector RR under the aegis of Kilo Force. The event was witnessed by over 400 children from various schools here.

During the display, the elite Marine Commandos of the Indian Navy displayed their skills of slithering and rappelling down from a helicopter and undertaking underwater stealth operations. They also carried out diving display to rescue a drowning person. During the entire display, the Marine Commandos and the skillful pilots of Army Aviation were clapped and cheered by the young children.

_Marine Commandos are the elite Special Forces of 7 Para of the Indian Navy_ and have participated in anti-terrorist operations in the Valley since 1993. They have also been actively involved in the search and rescue operations in almost all rivers in the valley.

The aim of the event was to motivate young children to join the Defence Forces and celebrate the 69th Independence Day. The armed forces operate in extreme climatic conditions and different types of terrain. The profession is full of challenges and requires a great amount of hard work which was quite evident in the demonstration. Besides the display, a drawing and painting competition for the children was also conducted at Mazbug. At the end of the event prizes were distributed to the children.
The event was presided over by Brig Vikram Nagpal, Commander of Mazbug Army Cantonment. The active participation of the children, local and the enthusiasm during the conduct gave a glimpse of reinforcing ties between Army and Awam.



hkdas said:


> Marine Commandos are the elite Special Forces of 7 Para of the Indian Navy



@Abingdonboy and other....
our media at the best?


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## hkdas



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## kurup

hkdas said:


>



Which gun is this ??


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## hkdas

kurup said:


> Which gun is this ??


micro UZI with suppressor

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## hkdas

army's official video...

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## alby

Wow those NVGs are awesome .
Btw did any one knew what are the draw backs of INSAS LMG other than the low clip capacity?


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## hkdas

@bloo, @kurup @being humane @Sykox @alby @Koovie @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
id the gun.

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## being humane

hkdas said:


> @bloo, @kurup @being humane @Sykox @alby @Koovie @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
> id the gun.
> View attachment 247130
> 
> 
> View attachment 247131


bro, what's that? Ak12?


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## hkdas

being humane said:


> bro, what's that? Ak12?


no, not ak. That is a marksman rifle. INSAS variant???

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## Custer

hkdas said:


> micro UZI with suppressor


I think that is a Brügger & Thomet MP9 with suppressor. There are two pointers, i believe the position of the fore grip in comparison to the suppressor and the unit displaying them seems to a be a regular infantry battalion. There was a talk of introducing MP9s in ghatak platoons. I may be wrong and if that be the case apologies in advance.

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## Mike_Brando

hkdas said:


> micro UZI with suppressor


Bhai,it's a Brügger & Thomet MP9 machine pistol,currently in the arsenal of the Ghatak commandos.
Modern Firearms - B+T MP 9

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## hkdas

Custer said:


> I think that is a Brügger & Thomet MP9 with suppressor. There are two pointers, i believe the position of the fore grip in comparison to the suppressor and the unit displaying them seems to a be a regular infantry battalion. There was a talk of introducing MP9s in ghatak platoons. I may be wrong and if that be the case apologies in advance.


no you are right... its MP-9. micro UZI is much smaller than this one. it was my mistake.

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## alby

GALIL 7.62X51 SNIPER RILFE.








Mike_Brando said:


> Bhai,it's a Brügger & Thomet MP9 machine pistol,currently in the arsenal of the Ghatak commandos.
> Modern Firearms - B+T MP 9


Its not MP9.Its MICRO UZI.Though both looks similar,PARA uses micro uzi only.

Sorry MP-9..MP9s had been seen lately with regular infantry.


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## kurup

^^^^^^ Have you guys come into an agreement which gun is that ?? 




hkdas said:


> army's official video...



Amazing video ....


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## bloo

hkdas said:


> @bloo, @kurup @being humane @Sykox @alby @Koovie @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
> id the gun.
> View attachment 247130
> 
> 
> View attachment 247131




Except for the hand guard or the trigger guard, it does look like the Galil Sniper Rifle: Galatz.
The image is a bit grainy but the buttstock and everything else is very similar to the Galatz.

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## MMG

hkdas said:


> @bloo, @kurup @being humane @Sykox @alby @Koovie @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
> id the gun.
> View attachment 247130
> 
> 
> View attachment 247131


Looks like Sniper Rifle with scope and if I am not mistaken there is bipod.
Now the standard sniper rifle in army inventory are :
1. PARA-SF

Mauser SP66 Bolt-action sniper rifle
SVD Dragunov Semi-automatic sniper rifle
IMI Galil Sniper Semi-automatic sniper rifle
Heckler & Koch MSG90 Semi-automatic sniper rifle

2. MARCOS

Galil SA- semi- auto Sniper rifle
Heckler & Koch MSG90 Semi-automatic sniper rifle
OSV-96, Sniper and anti-material rifle[24]
So I Guess it will be one of above but cant identify exectly....

IMI Galil is For use by Indian Army Special Forces snipers.
Image :

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## alby

Its galil.Just check the position of the bipood.It is in the wooden hand guard which is a uniquue feature of Galatz sniper where as other snipers have it at the end of barrel. 
PS;the gun in the pic dont have any mag.

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## hkdas

alby said:


> Its not MP9.Its MICRO UZI.Though both looks similar,PARA uses micro uzi only.
> 
> Sorry MP-9..MP9s had been seen lately with regular infantry.



that is MP9c. micro-uzi is much smaller...





garud commandos

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## hkdas

guys ... watch this video...

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## hkdas

army's special operation aviation wing.

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## hkdas

para(SF) of indian army.









hybrid sight on tavor!!!!

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## being humane

ParaTroopers




Globe master and Su30MKI





My Favourites. Garuds


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## Unknowncommando

hkdas said:


> @bloo, @kurup @being humane @Sykox @alby @Koovie @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
> id the gun.
> View attachment 247130
> 
> 
> View attachment 247131


100% sure galil sniper



kurup said:


> Which gun is this ??


B&T 9 mm smg and on the left hang insas lmg black

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## hkdas

being humane said:


>


nop.. not indian force.
i think they are Belgium SF.



Unknowncommando said:


> 100% sure galil sniper


but galil is smaller that that rifle. the barrel length looks much longer than galil's.

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## alby

PARA SF













SFF 

















#Credits@Ghost

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> @Abingdonboy and other....
> our media at the best?


The presstitute ret@rds at it again. There is no such unit and 7 PARA aren't a SF unit, the unit in question is clearly IN MARCOs.

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## tyagi

alby said:


> PARA SF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #Credits@Ghost



why did you removed the face from this pic?


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## alby

I didn't, the person who posted it another forum removed it........


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## tyagi

alby said:


> I didn't, the person who posted it another forum removed it........


that pic is of Shabir Ahmad Malik (1st para sf) .laid down his life for the country fighting militants On his 21st birthday.he was from kashmir

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## alby

Sorry i didn't knew it was the pic of late Paratrooper Shabir Malik.I remember reading that encouunter which claimed the lives of 8 men of Ist PARA back in 2009 .It was one of the instances where PARA had to face heavy toll,though they finished off all the 17 terrorists.
And Shabir Maliks funeral was attended by thousands of people in Kashmir which was a rare thing considering the mindset of people towards Army.

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## RPK



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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


>


A very cool video but it shows just how far the IA's modernisation has to go...

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## Abingdonboy

SPG during I-Day 2015:


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

NSG:





(Note the P-rail on the side of the helmet)

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## Abingdonboy

Gotta keep her clean:
















(^^ in Fiji)

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## hkdas



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## Abingdonboy



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## RPK

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=408413106021991

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## kurup

callofduty said:


> you all dont know what is called SPECIAL FORCES
> and why they are called SPECIAL.
> as compared to regular troops



Why don't you educate us .

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## callofduty

RobbieS said:


> And you can say that because your armchair provides with a good enough view into the workings and operations of all the special forces in the world?


you havent seen the history clearly or might u have forgetten.
and you are also not up to date with current situation.
i love indian force because i m an indian 
but i have to say they lack of equipments and are not up to international level.



kurup said:


> Why don't you educate us


i was expecting for similler comment.
i m not offending our indian SF but only wearing special forces insignia and naming SF dosent makes it special.
i pass the question to you how you think that our SF are up to the mark


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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS I DAY







INDIAN ARMY PARA SPECIAL FORCES



callofduty said:


> you havent seen the history clearly or might u have forgetten.
> and you are also not up to date with current situation.
> i love indian force because i m an indian
> but i have to say they lack of equipments and are not up to international level.
> 
> 
> i was expecting for similler comment.
> i m not offending our indian SF but only wearing special forces insignia and naming SF dosent makes it special.
> i pass the question to you how you think that our SF are up to the mark


Dude u r just saying this just by seeing their equipments which is totally wrong. And which history r u talking abt. INDIAN SFs dont have failed operations till date. There may be some handful mistakes but no failed operations. Just watch the thread b4 commenting anything abt sfs. U r talking like a immature person. I can show u how better equiped they r. And compared to world only bcause they dont have equipment just like international sfs carry doest mean they are not equiped well. What important is r they doing enough for our nation with whatever given to them and yes they are doing enough. They come complete their work and they go with no or min loss. We cant know everything abt sfs but this is what i can tell u. So u need to watch the whole thread first. Buddy dont come directly on conclusion.

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## Abingdonboy

SPG Counter Assault Team (CAT):

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## kurup

callofduty said:


> yes they dont buy it off the market, but its only takes to be a cricketer or a bollywood star to be in the SF.remember dhoni in para regiment at high ranking officer.



Dhoni is just a *Honorary Officer *in the 106 Para *Territorial Army *Bn and it is not an SF .


*Parachute Regiment*

The regiment has a total of eleven regular, one Rashtriya Rifles and two Territorial Army battalions. Of the regular battalions, three are Airborne Infantry battalions, while eight are Special Forces battalions. Formerly designated "Commando" units, they are now designated *Special Forces*:


1st Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 1st Battalion, 2nd Punjab Regiment Raised 1761, conversion to Special Forces 1978
2nd Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 3rd Battalion, Maratha Light Infantry raised 1797, conversion to Special Forces 2000
3rd Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 1st Battalion, Kumaon Regiment raised 1813, conversion to Special Forces 2002
4th Battalion (Special Forces) raised 1961, conversion to Special Forces 2003.
5th Battalion (Airborne) raised 1963
6th Battalion (Airborne) raised 1963
7th Battalion (Airborne) raised 1963
9th Battalion (Special Forces) raised 1966 as 9th Parachute Commando Battalion.
10th Battalion (Special Forces) raised in 1967 as 10th Parachute Commando battalion from 9 Para Cdo.
11th Battalion (Special Forces) raised in 2011
21st Battalion (Special Forces) - ex 21st Battalion, Maratha Light Infantry raised 1985, conversion to Special Forces 1996
106th Infantry Battalion (Para) Territorial Army
116th Infantry Battalion (Para) Territorial Army
31st Battalion (Commando) - Rashtriya Rifles


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## Mike_Brando

callofduty said:


> i want to send some links but not able to do that for now for technical reasons on this site.
> 
> so other i want to ask that
> indian strategy is that for every 1 enemy indian will send 3 to 5 soldiers.(3 minimum per 1 enemy).
> real SF only require a highly trained Squad for more than 20 to 40 enemy.without airsupport.
> our send 2000 to 12000 SF for less than 20 enemy.backed by paramilitary and police and airforce and tanks in J&K.
> 
> 
> regular u.s law enforcement and police carry similar or more advance equipments .


Brother,you go and play "Call of Duty" because it seems that you have got no real knowledge about the modus operandi of our Special Forces.
Now let me give you some real time info regarding the actual modus operandi of our Forces in J&K.In case of every insurgency whether large scale or small the usual COIN(i hope you do know the full form) tactic is to deploy as many personnel as possible to achieve complete physical area domination on the ground.This is the reason why GoI was able to crush two of the most ferocious insurgency movements in Punjab and J&K and this is also the reason why the Maoists are getting cornered by the each passing day in Central Indian region.

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN AIR FORCE GARUD COMMANDOS


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## tyagi

callofduty said:


> basic equipments no night visions, no scope for imi negev
> no infrared lazer device,no suppressor's and lazer gesignator if some wants to go with covert and silently.
> i havent seen any side arms.let go the advanced lazer targeting pods or
> lazer gesignator.no thermal scopes.
> development countrys regular troops carry these equipments.imagine real SF
> 
> 
> what is special about them??


yah call of duty ka fan

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## callofduty

tyagi said:


> yah call of duty ka fan
> 
> View attachment 248437


looks like a mumbai police cop

make way for real SF







tyagi said:


> yah call of duty ka fan


do you have better fps game than that



Unknowncommando said:


>







do you think this is call of duty



Unknowncommando said:


>


want to battle future wars with basic weapons.
knows about insas and thinks he knows everything


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## danish_vij

callofduty said:


> looks like a mumbai police cop
> 
> make way for real SF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do you have better fps game than that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do you think this is call of duty
> 
> 
> want to battle future wars with basic weapons.
> knows about insas and thinks he knows everything


so acc to u nice equipement = special force....let me give u a lesson for life...nicer equipment doesnt mean better special force equipment is secondary...u first need a man to brace the training of a special force...not a call of duty fanboy


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## bloo

callofduty said:


> you should also play it if you havent then you will know the future and advanced tactics.
> you could probably come out from world war 2 tactics,that our forces use all the time.
> 
> 
> *yeah sounds like they know the results what would happen if they sends only 4 to 6 man team of SF.
> SAS sends behind the enemy line only 4 man team.thats enough to take all the bad guys down*.
> 
> this is not world war 1 and 2 where you fight in trenches and bunkers.
> you have to use advanced long range weapons beyond visual range and also stealth.



Where are you getting all of this from?
Number of SFs per mission depends on the specificity of the mission.
An offensive asymmetric mission will require small number only if the logistics of a place is complicated, where large number of SFs conducting a shock and awe tactic will only be a hindrance and have more chance of being found out. You should stop playing COD and go out more.
Take for example Op Neptune Spear, around 79 DEVGRU/ST6 operators participated to kill and capture OBL and other terrorists, similarly the recent Myanmar raid had 70 commandos of the 21 Para SFs participating who killed over 100 terrorists.
Your standards of Special forces need not apply to our SFs who are as good as any SFs out there.
You can equate them with your games or pictures from the net, neither will that take away their laurels or the countless successful missions they have had since their inception nor will the stop protecting us day in and day out, and they certainly do not need your approval.

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## Abingdonboy

callofduty said:


> no infrared lazer device,no suppressor's and lazer gesignator if some wants to go with covert and silently.


All of this is built into the Metro MOR reflex sight (and MARS) used on the Tavors.



bloo said:


>


BSF ERT bro.

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## Mike_Brando

Abingdonboy said:


> All of this is built into the Metro MOR reflex sight (and MARS) used on the Tavors.
> 
> 
> BSF ERT bro.


Are you sure that these are members of the BSF ERT??I am asking this because in another Indian Forum they were claimed to be members of COBRA although the camo looks a bit similar to the ones worn by the S.S.B.The thing is that i am totally confused in this case and a simple google search is also not helping the matter.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Mike_Brando said:


> Are you sure that these are members of the BSF ERT??I am asking this because in another Indian Forum they were claimed to be members of COBRA although the camo looks a bit similar to the ones worn by the S.S.B.The thing is that i am totally confused in this case and a simple google search is also not helping the matter.


100% not COBRA, BSF for sure.

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## hkdas

callofduty said:


> basic equipments no night visions, no scope for imi negev
> no infrared lazer device,no suppressor's and lazer gesignator if some wants to go with covert and silently.
> i havent seen any side arms.let go the advanced lazer targeting pods or
> lazer gesignator.no thermal scopes.
> development countrys regular troops carry these equipments.imagine real SF
> 
> 
> what is special about them??



bro, our special forces have
NVGs, laser pointers.





weapons sights(Hybrid sight),











suppressors, 









laser designators




and many more things they need.
you don't know about our SF.
side arms are mostly in CQBs, in operations like LRRP, Covert ops, in most DA ops. they don;t use side arms.


callofduty said:


> what is special about them??



the SPECIAL in SPECIAL FORCES are not in their weapons, it is their skill, training, capability and the method they adopt for fighting makes them SPECIAL



callofduty said:


> looks like a mumbai police cop
> 
> make way for real SF



bro, you are comparing equipment of US SF( with a budget of 10 billion droller) with Indian special forces(<1 billion droller budget)



callofduty said:


> m 21 and i bet i know better than you about weapons.
> war is won by best weapons.
> god takes sides who have best artillery and drones.



the battles are won by soldiers/men. not only because they have better weapons. 
best example is Iraqi special forces. 





when fighting enemy.




http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1385096/iraqi-special-forces-isis-ramadi.jpg
Iraqi forces lack will to fight - Ashton Carter - BBC News

US Navy seals without military side arms.













indian special forces with sidearm 









now you can relax and take a sleep..

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## bloo

callofduty said:


> you havent got it yet it will take time and i have enough time to explain you
> 
> devgru around 79 as you believe entered pak without authorization and in covert so it makes them pro where far from there homeland very inside pak terrotary with risk of deceting and completed within 30 minutes. fighting over seas.
> where as indian operation in myanmar was a joint operation with approved from myanmar with closed to indian border side with lots of supports.




Yeah, you know nothing.
SEALS airdropped from choppers with air support 1 of which crashed and 2 additional teams on standby if anything went wrong where they faced *22 people(Para SF faced over100)* inside the compound among them were women and children .
When the SF are actuallyin a fire fight they don't have support apart from the numbers they already have, i.e. 79 SEAL operators with choppers and 70 Para SFs with choppers there was nothing more, your point about being covert away from home is moot.
Para SF trekked over intense terrain killed over 100 terrorists trekked a bit again and then exfiltrated from choppers. How does that look easy to you?

*Operation Khukri in Sierra Leone had around 90 Para SFs rescuing over 200 men of the Gorkha rifles and push back over 4000 RUF soldiers ultimately flushing them and freeing Freetown. This is among many other operations that the Para SFs have participated and achieved victory in.*




> yes most or all of them are 1st gen where as others use 3rd and 4th gen even pak has 3rd gen nvgs.
> dont teach me.bro



I realize your need to fawn on pics and equipments, but that is only coz you know nothing about the operational history of our forces, its really very sad to see your illiteracy.





> one(me) vs all of u in this form
> 
> i can take you all come on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this are all old pics which i got bored seeing
> with little this you are trying to make look like you are the best in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> yes you are right they are cobra during bardaman blast in westbengal.



I reckon that is why you are here for, to troll really.

Freshen up your facts.

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## Abingdonboy

callofduty said:


> tell this to world best sas who goes to the jungle behind enemy lines for days and weaks with lots of gear and heavy weapons.



Everyone knows that operating in Jungles is about keeping weight and gear to a minimum:

USMC:


















SAS:











SEALs:








SASR:













And I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that the SAS are the "best" other than using COD-logic.

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## bloo

callofduty said:


> our history was a great with full of power.they were the super heros at their time.
> the soldiers who fought world wars were absolutely elite at their time.
> 
> but now its 21 century war will b fought with digital and cyber techs.
> 
> my grand father fought in indo pak war. i know you all will not believe me.but is absolutely true.and my dad is in paramilitary.
> 
> i m here to wake you up.



Dude, keep it in your pants you know nothing. 
Again, go* check up on the operational history of our SFs before and after 2000*, and after that if you still don't get it then troll somewhere else, you are making a fool out of yourself.
Stop obsessing about future weapons, we already have the ongoing FINSAS project and our SFs are doing wonders with what they have, we can only imagine what they will be capable of when they do end up getting advanced weaponry.


*DRDO MCIWS*












*DRDO MSMC (is used in COD Black Ops 2, I'm sure for you it should qualify as a great futuristic achievement)*


----------



## me_itsme

Guys!!! This is a pic thread. Stop your BS discussions here. I get excited every time i see a new post and only to be disappointed to see the lame discussion still going on. Damn fcuk!!


----------



## hkdas

me_itsme said:


> . I get excited every time i see a new post and only to be disappointed to see the lame discussion still going on


marcos in kashmir.

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## hkdas

marcos in Kashmir... old pics..

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## hkdas

callofduty said:


> yeah man nice covert operations.look good in civilian dress.
> but when comes with weapons again that will be average.


marcos in Kashmir... very old pics...




weapons used during a covert operation will be similar to the one the enemy uses... 
yes, our SF need much improvement when it comes to equipment. but that don't mean they use absolute equipment. every SF units of india uses tavor and M4. while SG(as we know) use FN SCAR. 
BTW equipment used by special forces are classified. no way we could know that.



callofduty said:


> which boat is this
> design looks like a soap box
> and fn mag dosent they use miniguns.



i don't know the name of the boat. army also uses it. during the flood in kashmir, army extensively used that boat. it have the ability to move in shallow water. 
miniguns are not used(don't know if they use it now-the pics are taken in 2007. )

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## callofduty

hkdas said:


> marcos in Kashmir... old pics..
> View attachment 248699
> 
> View attachment 248701


weapons like these for great fire power




even iran developes this kind of weapons.



hkdas said:


> i don't know the name of the boat. army also uses it. during the flood in kashmir, army extensively used that boat. it have the ability to move in shallow water.
> miniguns are not used(don't know if they use it now-the pics are taken in 2007.



man u give the answers politely not like others members trying to kick me off the threat and from this site.
i ask differently and i like to compare.


----------



## MilSpec

alby said:


> Don't think that would be a problem,as in case of rifles too such bending had to be done,but in case of an RPG the shooting happens not frequently,so that shouldn't e a major issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could any one say what type of sighs are in this Russian AkMs?



Looks like a VO Strikefire Red dot.

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## callofduty

i know they are in training but why they are only carrying the AR. not other stuffs




like







me_itsme said:


> Guys!!! This is a pic thread. Stop your BS discussions here. I get excited every time i see a new post and only to be disappointed to see the lame discussion still going on. Damn fcuk!!



where the hell it is written pic threat .
the threat heading dosent says that.
and its good to b excited and curious.
ask every day learn every day.
explore and discover man.

read books read news.
read blogs.
and discussion is better than believing in old thoughts and stories that you read in past and still belives that.


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## hkdas

callofduty said:


> i know they are in training but why they are only carrying the AR. not other stuffs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like



bro,equipments used in operations depends on the type of operation. terrain etc. that pics(2nd pics) you post is french navel SF and the 1st pics is indian army SF in a shallow water(river). all those equipment are used by indian navy marcos. in the left side(2nd pics) that black colored equipment is MST JET BOOTS.
our marcos uses black ace marine propulsion system.

_ Right now it is in trials with the Special Forces of Singapore and the Indian Navy._( this news was posted in this page. that is why many members asked you to check previous pages.. Indian Special Forces | Page 225)
MILITARY TECHNOLOGY: ISDEF2013: Speed Up Your Navy Diver with OPCON Marine's BLACKACE

indian navy marcos. 










callofduty said:


> why our soldiers in regular troops and SF looks skinny and malnutrition.



generally Asians are skinny.. and our soldiers don't spend as much time in gym, like their western soldier.

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## hkdas

callofduty said:


> hope to see our SF with full gear in FUTURE.
> 
> as all the advanced equipments are still in trails.



after 26/11, india is now giving special attention to its military special forces.
civilins like us don't get any info on the equipment of SF. they are classified information.


callofduty said:


> but physical fitness in gym should also be their regular activity in SF.
> 
> what rasan or packet food does our SF use in their missions. or during war times.


things are changing now. our sf are now following western SF. 

our army SF from the video released by army 2 days ago.



















callofduty said:


> according to our conversations,
> i realize that all our SF has advanced weapons and equipment in development mode or in trails.
> buy the time they came to service .think what other countrys SF will get.
> 
> and again the question will come,when comparing with them. what will this cycle will go on



special forces of the countries with large defense budget will be better equipped than the SF with smaller budget. and this cycle will go on. as our deference budget is increasing and gov. and military is now focusing on unconventional/special operation warfare.. our SF will get much better equipment in the near future.

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## Mike_Brando

Guys,specially @callofduty for heaven's sake stop that dick measuring contest of yours.This is a picture thread,so please don't start debating here,if you really want to debate please go to the Small Arms by DRDO and ARDE thread.
@waz bhaijaan please do clean the last couple of pages of this thread coz these guys made a mess out of everything

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## Abingdonboy

@hkdas @Unknowncommando any more pics of the NSG from I-day deployments? Looks like they have got some new toys (helmet mounted).

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> @hkdas @Unknowncommando any more pics of the NSG from I-day deployments? Looks like they have got some new toys (helmet mounted).



i got only these two..








i think you have already posted these pics.

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## waz

Oh my goodness. @callofduty, you certainly are a one-man army. Just look at how you have managed to single handily destroy this thread!
I'll have to close it, in order to clean the mountains of written posts. My friend* this is a picture thread. *

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## waz

Uffffff. Thread reopened. If only I had the power to slow down people's internet connections, it would at curb the sheer numbers of posts they could put up and ruin a thread. 

If you want to have a discussion, then open up another thread.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> @hkdas @Unknowncommando any more pics of the NSG from I-day deployments? Looks like they have got some new toys (helmet mounted).


NO MORE PICS FOUND BRO
Special Operational Command in a year

To eradicate the delay in special operations, The government plans to make a special operation command similar to American SOCOM, which controls all the special forces from all services.These will include the NSG and CRPF special forces Cobra. Under the new uniform command, the Special Operational Command from Delhi orders the designated forces nearby to act against the threat,

Indian Commands http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.in/…/government-plans-to-draft…

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## Abingdonboy

Check out the helmets of Patna Police's SWAT team:









the rest of their gear absolutely sucks though

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## K M Cariappa

Abingdonboy said:


> Check out the helmets of Patna Police's SWAT team:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the rest of their gear absolutely sucks though


Can you tell more about this helmet... Have seen quite a lot of them recently but never really figured out what they were good for...??


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Check out the helmets of Patna Police's SWAT team:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the rest of their gear absolutely sucks though



with that kind of equipment i dough that they have the gradates to be fitted on the helmets.



K M Cariappa said:


> Can you tell more about this helmet... Have seen quite a lot of them recently but never really figured out what they were good for...??


MKU helmets.










KOLKATA: In keeping with plans by the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) to deploy National Security Guard (NSG) commandos within the shortest time possible, the Black Cats based at the hub in Badu near Kolkata carried out their first full-fledged heli-borne drill on Monday. Shortly after 3.30 pm, two Mi-17V5 helicopters of the Indian Air Force (IAF) flew in from Air Force Station Barrackpore and landed at the NSG hub. The commandos boarded within minutes and were deployed in the forested areas of Panagarh within an hour. 

"This was a crucial development. The NSG commandos at Badu are in charge of 13 states in the eastern and northeastern parts of the country. Their quick deployment is crucial. Crucial time is wasted if the commandos have to travel by road to the airport and then board a flight. On Monday, it took the helicopters 15 minutes to reach Badu from Barrackpore. The helicopters had barely touched down when the commandos boarded and the journey to Panagarh started. They were deployed by 5 pm. Had the helicopters not been available, this may have taken more than two hours," a senior MHA official said. 

NSG commandos are deployed during terror strikes and the timing is crucial. During the Mumbai strike, the Black Cats were delayed as there was no aircraft available at Delhi for that all-important flight. Since then, the MHA decided that the elite force can commandeer any aircraft during deployment. Though the hub at Badu is located close to the Kolkata airport, valuable time is lost in covering the distance by road due to narrow and congested roads. For some time now, the NSG has been planning heli-borne operations. In the past, the Black Cat commandos have carried out drills at several star hotels in Kolkata as well as Metro stations. Such drills will continue in the days to come but the stress will be on quicker deployment, another MHA official said. 

"There may also be drills when the commandos actually get out of helicopters on to flat roofs of buildings in Kolkata. There are also plans to carry out aerial surveillance of the city using helicopters. The commandos can get deployed in the central business district of Kolkata within 10-15 minutes using helicopters. If the commandos use road transport, this would take over an hour. This is why more stress is being laid on heli-borne operations from the Badu hub," her said.

Defence News - NSG commandos carry out heli-borne operations from Badu

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## hkdas

NSG




@Abingdonboy

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> NSG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy


Cool! Interesting to see the PSG-1 and the scopes on those SIGs (they look like night optics to me). Hopefully the NSG get some helmets like those of the Patna SWAT team but now they (the NSG) are fitting P-rails and NVG mounts to there existing helmets it looks less likely they will be going for a new type anytime soon. Other than that everything looks top-notch, this force really has done a great job of reinventing itself kudos to them and the GoI (of the past mostly).

+ also interesting is that the operator with the PSG-1 has a shotgun slung around his back- I've not seen them with this before, I've only seen breachers using full-length automatic shotguns as their primary weapon in the past.

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## bloo

PARA SF

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Cool! Interesting to see the PSG-1 and the scopes on those SIGs (they look like night optics to me). Hopefully the NSG get some helmets like those of the Patna SWAT team but now they (the NSG) are fitting P-rails and NVG mounts to there existing helmets it looks less likely they will be going for a new type anytime soon. Other than that everything looks top-notch, this force really has done a great job of reinventing itself kudos to them and the GoI (of the past mostly).
> 
> + also interesting is that the operator with the PSG-1 has a shotgun slung around his back- I've not seen them with this before, I've only seen breachers using full-length automatic shotguns as their primary weapon in the past.



what advantage does these bulky helmets of NSG have when comparing with those MKU helmets??


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## rezangahir

*4th para SF with its HUNT during rafiabad encounter



*

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## rezangahir

*Sorry for the quality guys ... para still using M4 ... imo their early VZ 58 was more reliable




*


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## hkdas




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## hkdas

para SF commandos in training.


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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> Cool! Interesting to see the PSG-1 and the scopes on those SIGs (they look like night optics to me). Hopefully the NSG get some helmets like those of the Patna SWAT team but now they (the NSG) are fitting P-rails and NVG mounts to there existing helmets it looks less likely they will be going for a new type anytime soon. Other than that everything looks top-notch, this force really has done a great job of reinventing itself kudos to them and the GoI (of the past mostly).
> 
> + also interesting is that the operator with the PSG-1 has a shotgun slung around his back- I've not seen them with this before, I've only seen breachers using full-length automatic shotguns as their primary weapon in the past.




If not for the procurement process the helmets could easily be provided by MKU.


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## hkdas

@bloo, bro, can you open this link?
http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html


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## bloo

hkdas said:


> @bloo, bro, can you open this link?
> http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html




Its showing a 404 error, sorry.


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## hkdas

bloo said:


> Its showing a 404 error, sorry.


it is showing "*This webpage is not available"  *when i try to pen it. 

http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html
*@Abingdonboy *can you open it??


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## Agent_47

I have few questions:
Who protects air force bases and navy installations during peace time ?
army draws SF from regulars, where do AF/Navy SF comes from? pilots/sailors ?
What is the approximate size SF under MoD?
does SF have separate aviation facilities ?


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## Abingdonboy

Agent_47 said:


> Who protects air force bases and navy installations during peace time ?


IA, IAF and IN bases/installations are all protected by their various police units and the DSC (Defence Security Corps- under the MoD).

Specific (strategic) air force bases have Garuds deployed to act as a QRT.



Agent_47 said:


> army draws SF from regulars, where do AF/Navy SF comes from? pilots/sailors ?


AF and Navy SF are recruited straight from "civvie street" with no prior military experience required (hence why MARCOs and Garud training regimes are a bit longer than the PARA (SF)'s )
A pretty similar scenario that is faced by naval and AF SF units around the world.



Agent_47 said:


> What is the approximate size SF under MoD?


Around 10,000



Agent_47 said:


> does SF have separate aviation facilities ?



The IA SF has a dedicated SF flight (the 202+ 203 HU IIRC) flying ALHs deployed with them with Northern Command in JK, IN SF have dedicated Mk.42B Sea Kings (the ones with "X" painted on them), i'm not sure if the IAF SF presently have dedicated helos of their own but I know they are on the hunt for long range heavy helos for their CSAR duties.

The C-130J-30 was bought explicitly for SF operations.

Once the SOCOM is established things will get better on this front and more specialist (SF-specific) assets will be added.

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## Agent_47

Abingdonboy said:


> IA, IAF and IN bases/installations are all protected by their various police units and the DSC (Defence Service Corps- under the MoD).





> Today, the DSC Centre and DSC Records is located in Kannur town, on the road to Payyambalam Beach. The area is a part of the Cannanore Cantonment and is well-maintained by the Cantonment Board. The DSC centre at Kannur is the mother depot to all platoons in the country.


I live in Kannur,and i didn't know that  ,Thank you.

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## Indian Patriot

Agent_47 said:


> Who protects air force bases and navy installations during peace time ?
> army draws SF from regulars, where do AF/Navy SF comes from? pilots/sailors ?
> What is the approximate size SF under MoD?
> does SF have separate aviation facilities ?



1. air force bases and navy bases are guarded by regular soldiers and sentries. SF are not security guards, they have missions which are strategic in nature. Army bases are not guarded by special forces commandos so why should navy and air force be any different?

2. AF and Navy both have their own "soldiers" so to speak. Every individual in AF is not a pilot or flying officer. And yes, every naval personnel is a sailor. That's the motto. 

3. It is classified information. They maybe 500 or 5,000.

4. Again classified information. The size, and other operational details of SF are always kept secret. 

US special forces for example use weapons and equipment which are exclusive to them. These weapons and equipment are not in the market for sale and are not even handed out to regular US forces.


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## hkdas

Helping Hand said:


> I have the link of what you are looking for, which has that article "The case for India". But I can not post that link here as I am new. So try searching on google for the "case for india soc mil", and it should be the first result, a PDF file titled "Special Warfare, January-March 2014, Vol 27, Issue 1.
> 
> In fact, I used to go through the news articles on this forum without ever having an account, but had to create this one to post this.


thank you bro... and welcome to PDF..
but i got it.. actually i had read that article couple of years ago, but now the link is unable to open. 


http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html
India has a rich culture and an incredibly complex history: from the Taj Mahal, to the British East India Company, to the peaceful struggle for independence from British rule personified by Mahatma Ghandi. India has a long history of kingdoms and dynasties that have produced a storied military tradition. The strong and independent Indian military tradition continued in
both World Wars and to this day with a modern military and an emerging relationship with the United States. In a case of what right looks like, Green Berets of the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) are developing a habitual and mutually beneficial relationship with the Indian Parachute Regiment. The history of India is colorful and proud, but it is the future of
India that looks so promising. More specifically, the relationship between the Indian Parachute Regiment and 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) demonstrates how appropriate SOF alignment in partner-nation develop

*Why India*

India is a growing trading partner for the United States in large measure because of open market polices instituted by India in 1990. The country has experienced an average of 6.5 percent annual growth over the last 10 years. Some additional facts taken from the CIA Fact Book in the most recent update as of May 2013 reveal: India has the fourth largest GDP in the world; the second largest work force; the second largest population, 87.5 percent of the population is under 54; and the United States is its fifth largest import partner.1 In 2009 the United States began what the State Department calls a “strategic dialogue”, bilateral talks involving energy, trade, climate change, education and counterterrorism.

Since the State Department strategic dialogue began, “Bilateral trade between our two countries has gone up 40 percent…”2 A quick analysis of the economic possibilities highlights several potential opportunities. India represents a huge potential consumer market for American goods. Thanks to a large English speaking and educated class, foreign direct investment could open up manufacturing possibilities and provide an alternative to Chinese-based factories for American corporations. The picture is not at all perfect as India does indeed face challenges inhibiting continued growth: sprawling poverty, government corruption and control over the free-market system pose risks to corporations wishing to invest. Despite the risks, India can provide important economic opportunities for the United States and for the people of India. Just as economic ties are a part of the strategic dialogue and beneficial for India and the United States, mutually supporting efforts in counterterrorism could also benefit both countries.

Border disputes and terrorist attacks are constant reminders of the remnants of colonialism and extremism for the government of India. There are numerous disputed areas, stretching from the eastern border of Afghanistan across the Kashmir to the Arunachal Pradesh area bordering Myanmar and the large disputed area known as the Line of Actual Control to the north bordering China. The most important and strategically contested area is the Kashmir where India, Pakistan and China each claim all or portions of the area. The current status of forces has Pakistan occupying Kashmir to the north bordering Afghanistan and India retaining the Jammu and Kashmir area to the south bordering India proper. The deeply held convictions of the dispute between Pakistan and India in the Kashmir can be easily identified; J&K is approximately 77 percent Muslim but holds many religious holy sites for Buddhism and Hinduism. Religious convictions aside, a more pragmatic look at J&K crystallizes the economic impact the area has for both countries. Water rights are a major issue between India and Pakistan as it relates to the Indus River basin, the largest source of water for Pakistan, which originates in the Himalaya’s of Indian controlled J&K.

As a result, India has struggled with an ongoing counterinsurgency throughout J&K. The most feared arm of the insurgency
opposing Indian rule in J&K is Lashkare- Taiba. Initially focused on opposition to Soviet expansionism in Afghanistan, it is
believed that LeTs current goal is to create a liberated united Kashmir. LeT is well known for recruiting and radicalizing members of the Islamic faith to join the fighting in Kashmir and to conduct terrorist attacks against India. The most spectacular and deadly was the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, where 12 coordinated attacks over three days killed 166 people and wounded 308. The United States designated the LeT a terrorist group in 2003, which makes targeting this group of mutual interest to the United States and India. In the defense of Pakistan’s claims to J&K, the UN mandated self determination
vote contained in UNSCR’s 47 and 80 relating to the Kashmir region has not taken place. As described by a paper written by
Lt. Gen. Talat Masood, a retired member of the Pakistani Army, “From a Pakistani perspective, Kashmir is the core issue and
the root of tension with India. It maintains that India is in unlawful occupation of J&K and it is the right of the people of the state to determine their future in accordance with their aspirations.”3 Negotiations between India and Pakistan have produced minor agreements, but a permanent solution is still elusive. One of the chief fears of Indians at large as it relates to the Kashmir, is that as the U.S. draws down in Afghanistan, the Indians suspect increased insurgent activity from hardened Afghanistan fighters. The border dispute between India and Pakistan, where Pakistan is a critical U. S. partner in the fight against al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, makes the U. S. relationship with India and Pakistan diplomatically challenging in that
cooperation from both countries is needed to help combat regional terror groups.

In addition to the challenges previously discussed, China also has claims in the Kashmir region, specifically Aksai Chin. An
article by Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi in 2013 describes it succinctly “The origins of the dispute date back to the British Raj which failed to clearly demarcate its border between its colony and China. By and large, its border issue revolves around two main boundary designs that have been put forward by the British. One of them, the Johnson Line, places Aksai Chin under Indian control, where as the other, the McDonald Line, classifies it as Chinese territory.” 4 There are several key reasons why the Chinese find the Kashmir strategically important. First, highway G219 runs along China’s western border and is the only Line of Communication connecting Xinjiang province in the north to Tibet in the south, it transverses Aksai Chin turning this disputed area into key terrain for national defense.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly Sander Ruban Aarten, an intern at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New
Delhi 2013, postulates that in the event of potential conflicts that bind up sea lanes, China needs an alternative land route to
shipping lanes. That route would lead out of Aksai Chin, across the Kashmir and down through Pakistan to reach ports in the Arabian Sea.5 The potential partnership between China and Pakistan will make J&K vitally important to India in the event hostilities break out with China.

_“The U.S.-India relationship is the strongest it has been since India gained its independence in 1947. A strengthened U.S.-India strategic partnership is imperative to achieve U.S. national interests including securing regional security, strengthening the international trading system, protecting shared domains, countering terrorism and bolstering international non proliferation.” — Adm. Samuel J. Locklear III, PACOM Commander, testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, April 9, 2013._


*Military Engagements*

There is a growing and mutually beneficial military relationship between the United States and India. A quick look at a map of
the United States Pacific Command area of responsibility reveals the extent to which it is covered by water. This places the U.S. 7th Fleet in the forefront of U.S. presence in the Pacific and an important leader in partnernation development. As early as 1992, the United States, Japan, Australia, Singapore and India have conducted Exercise Malabar. The U.S. 7th Fleet is the American beneficiary of this exercise and in 2012 Navy SEALs participated with the Indian Navy Marine Commando’s, a natural SEAL alignment for SOF-to-SOF engagements. This same type of natural alignment also exists between the 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and the Indian Parachute Regiment where Green Berets are the force of choice.

The Parachute Regiment of the Indian Army is organized into 10 PARA Battalions, seven of which are designated as Special
Forces Battalions. The genesis for the development of the SF PARA Battalions was to create counterinsurgency experts and to provide a deep-strike capability. Their other core missions closely mirror those of U.S. Green Berets. An Indian PARA Battalion is organized into four troops consisting of 20 to 24 men in each troop. Each troop is organized into six-man
teams lead by an officer. Each Soldier has a specific skill, very similar to our military occupational specialties, where each man is trained in a primary skill: navigation, demolitions, communications, weapons or medical and they are also cross trained in a secondary skill. The SF Battalions are expected to operate in high altitude, mountainous terrain; therefore every Soldier is trained in mountaineering. They can be deployed as a troop or as small operational teams. During Exercise Vajra Prahar 2011,
two troops from the 1st and 4th PARA (SF) performed extremely well conducting troop level direct-action training missions.

Vajra Prahar is an annual bilateral exercise between the United States and India that involves conventional and SOF engagements. In 2011 Alpha Company, 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) hosted Vajra Prahar in the United States mainland, a significant milestone for the governments of India and the United States. The Company sponsored two troops from the 1st PARA and 4th PARA (SF) respectively at Joint Base Lewis McChord and Yakima Training Center. The company leadership served as the lead agent for planning and execution along with three of the company’s ODAs who participated in and conducted the training. Alpha Company leadership led the exercise through all phases of the
operation. It began with the reservation of resources at JBLM and YTC to include: ranges, training areas, billeting, sustainment and air assets, moved into execution at both JBLM and YTC and finally redeployment back to India. The company split its training at two sites approximately 170 miles apart, which required a ground convoy of over 100
personnel with weapons and equipment to conduct two weeks of rigorous close-quarter combat and aerial sniper training. As part of the newly formed Alpha Company validation requirements, the unit established an AOB headquarters to orchestrate the round robin training and support the culmination event by providing C2 for the PARA troops and ODAs on a combined direct-action training mission. Alpha Company concluded the exercise with a layout of SOF-specific equipment and attendance to the 4th Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) activation ceremony. This exercise was a unique opportunity for the 1st PARA (SF), who brought elements of the battalion command to provide leadership, planning and command and control, to take advantage of the great training facilities at both JBLM and YTC. Fortunately for 1st PARA (SF), Alpha Company was able to incorporate 4/160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the premier SOF rotary-wing asset, to make the exercise a world-class training event. The company sergeant major during the exercise, Sergeant Major Klingenberg, agrees “There was a huge benefit for the Indian participants as they rarely leave the country as part of a JCET program. They departed with an introduction to new techniques in close-quarters battle, fast-rope insertion and extraction system and sniper marksmanship
to include aerial sniper training. We also conducted a 70-man combined hit on a target at an urban-training site complete with FRIES infil from 4/160 Special Operations Aviations Regiment. This was a rare opportunity for the Indians to participate in
this scale of an operation.”

As part of the Special Operations Command Pacific Country Action Plan, the 1st SFG(A) conducts numerous JCETs to India annually. The engagements are almost exclusively with the Indian Parachute Regiment. One of the most significant elements of the relationship is the ability to grow capability, to build, not only expertise at the Soldier level but collective skills at the troop level and higher. This correct SOF-to-SOF alignment occurs in other nations in the PACOM AOR and is another example of what right looks like. By aligning with a specific unit, in this case the Indian Parachute Regiment, ODAs can move well beyond individual Soldier tasks and work on collective tasks, battalion long-range planning, embedding of enablers as examples, at the tactical and operational levels.

In 2012, Alpha Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st SFG(A) deployed with three ODAs on a JCET conducted with the 1st PARA at the Indian Special Forces Training Facility at Nahan Cantonment, India. This was a mutually beneficial training event where both units alternated instructors to conduct combined training. The skill level of the Indian instructors was first rate as highlighted in the after-action review by Alpha Company, “Indian SOF has very knowledgeable instructors and good instructional materials leading to well taught classes. Transcending Indian operations, USSF should continually assess their partner-nations’ expertise and levy lessons-learned briefs and case studies to not only build combat effectiveness but also build rapport.” Because of the experience and expertise of both SOF units, a true peer- to-peer style exchange of training and TTPs occurred. By aligning with the right unit, building a habitual relationship, establishing peer-to-peer relationships that create trust and respect, tangible and measurable gains at organizational effectiveness can be realized. A backward glance towards Iraq and Afghanistan and the Green Beret creation of and partnerships with Special Weapons and Tactics and SOF units are examples of the right SOF-to-SOF alignment and how establishing habitual relationships can produce very effective units.


*Future Roles*

In India, the United States could have another strong partner with mutually supporting interests in economic development, regional stability and combating terrorism. As senior U.S. policy makers look East in the pivot to Asia, in terms of the case for India and future partnerships with the United States, the future does hold promise. While 1st SFG(A) is one small piece of U.S. efforts with India, their role in building capability with the Indian Parachute Regiment and its role in counterterrorism and counterinsurgency efforts for the country of India will have strategic implications. The economic opportunities for both nations could shape the balance of power in South East Asia and provide strategic impacts on world markets. Finally, a mutually supporting effort in combating terror in the remote and historically volatile region of the Kashmir could help create space and time for the fledgling government of Afghanistan to find its identity and move forward as the United States begins to pull its forces and resources back home.


*Command Sergeant Major Greggory L. Hayes is the command sergeant major for 4th Bn., 1st Special Forces Group (A). He has served in several capacities in the PACOM AOR, serving as the Demining Coordinator-Cambodia, serving as a team sergeant to ODA 172, 3rd Bn., 1st Special Forces Group in support of Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines. He has a bachelor’s in psychology and a master’s in business administration from Webster University.*

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## hkdas

Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami(9 para SF) who laid down his life fighting terrorists in Handwara ,Kupwara Dist.









.
.
.
==================================================================

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## Assault Rifle

Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami of 9 Para (SF) who lost his life during an encounter in Handwara in which 4 terrorists were killed.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CODolaQUEAAEDNu.jpg:small

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF and Regular Paratroopers with vz58

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## Assault Rifle

Three special forces soldiers were injured in the encounter after militants fired UBGL at soldiers.
One succumbed to his injuries.


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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 253499


bro do you have the video link?? that pics is a screen shot from a news report.


Unknowncommando said:


>


 for this good quality pics.. i had posted all these pics before.. but it not good quality as these..
BTW, which NVG is that??


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
@hkdas k bro i will post the video

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF and Regular Paratroopers with vz58


bro, can you post the video link?? even the army's officially released video don't have this much clarity.


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


Mess with the best.......

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## hkdas

NSG

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## Odysseus



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## hkdas

martyed on Friday Brave Para Commando Mohan Nath Goswami had killed 10 terrorists out of which 3 were Pakistani origin in a record 11days in 3 operations. - MOD report in Parliament
He joined Para SF in 2002.
May God Bless his 7 month old daughter and his loving wife






*Lance Naik MN Goswami: Braveheart commando who laid down his life after eliminating 10 militants*
Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami, a Special Forces Commando of the Army who laid down his life while battling militants in Handwara on Thursday, had eliminated 10 militants in a short span of 11 days before making the supreme sacrifice in Kashmir.

“In the last 11 days, he was actively involved in three counter-terrorism operations in the Kashmir Valley in which 10 terrorists have been eliminated and one captured alive,” Udhampur-based Defence Spokesman Colonel S D Goswami said.

The spokesman said Lance Naik Goswami volunteered to join the elite Para Commando outfit of the Army in 2002 and went on to gain the reputation of being one of the toughest soldiers of his unit — “no small feat in an outfit that boasts of being one among the best in the world”.

The Lance Naik volunteered for all operational missions undertaken by his unit and was a part of numerous successful counter-terrorist operations in Jammu and Kashmir.

“The first operation was conducted in Khurmur, Handwara, on August 23. The operation resulted in elimination of three hardcore LeT terrorists of Pakistan origin.

“He volunteered for a second back to back operation in Rafiabad, Kashmir. The operation was conducted over two days on August 26 and 27. It witnessed a fierce gunfight that led to the elimination of three more LeT terrorists,” the spokesman said.

He said Lashkar-e-Toiba militant Sajjad Ahmad alias Abu Ubaidullah, resident of Muzzafargarh, Pakistan was captured alive in this operation. “The apprehension of a terrorist has proved to be a shot in the arm to prove Pakistan’s complicity in abetting terrorism in J&K,” he added.

Lance Naik Goswami once again volunteered to be part of
an operation launched in the dense Hafruda forest near Kupwara. “This proved to be his last operation but not before elimination of four terrorists in a heavy gunbattle,” the spokesman said.

A true soldier, Lance Naik Goswami breathed his last in action.

“The mortal remains of this brave heart commando have been flown by an IAF aircraft to his home town in Bareilly. They will be taken by Army helicopter to Pant Nagar and onward to his native place where he will be cremated with full military honour,” he said.

Lance Naik Goswami was a resident of Village Indira Nagar, Haldwani in Nainital. He is survived by wife and a seven-year-old daughter.
Lance Naik MN Goswami: Braveheart commando who laid down his life after eliminating 10 militants | idrw.org

NSG(?)







garud commandos.

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## Abingdonboy

Odysseus said:


> View attachment 253832


Not SF


----------



## alby

hkdas said:


> NSG(?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AFAIK it is from an English serial Strike back where there are 2 episodes having indian content involving a 26/11 model attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Abingdonboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not SF
> 
> 
> 
> Aint that PARA?,We had seen PARA guys still using VZ58s per team though in small numbers.
Click to expand...


----------



## special

marcos.







alby said:


> Well you haven't met Airtronic RPG7 yet.



is that RPG in production??


----------



## Pindi Boy




----------



## bloo

usama fiaz said:


> View attachment 254483



Off topic.
Post in Pakistani section.


----------



## Pindi Boy

Internet_user said:


> Kya in teno ke baap ne 71 me surrnder kiya tha????? lagta hai ye bhi unke baap ke jaise surrunder karenge....


inke baap ne 65 me randians ko chaiye pilai thi







usama fiaz said:


> inke baap ne 65 me randians ko chaiye pilai thi


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



usama fiaz said:


> inke baap ne 65 me randians ko chaiye pilai thi


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SomeRandomSouthIndian

Why why why does one nutjob or the other wanna ruin this thread? @mods please clean up this shit before it splatters all over.


----------



## SRP

@waz Need your intervention here before this thread become a mud fest.


----------



## alby

Army could have attached rails to the VZ58s like MARCOS had done with their AKs,as VZ


special said:


> marcos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is that RPG in production??


Yeah.Its an American firm,SOCOM had been evaluating those RPGs,also vietnamese had been planning to those .

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## bloo

@Deino please clean up the troll matter.


----------



## SRP

*IAF To Buy 65 Mini Drones For Garud Commando Force In Rs 27 Crore*

Indian Air Force is set to buy 65 micro UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) or spy drones for it’s Garud Commando Force in a Rs 27 crore contract, defence sources said. The sources also said that the Navy is awaiting the construction of two “midget submarines” or “chariots” for its marine commandos at a cost of Rs 2,017 crore.

Defence ministry sources on Monday said the latest acquisitions are part of inducting specialised weaponry and equipment for armed forces’ clandestine warfare and counter-terrorism operations.

According to a TOI report, the armed forces are expanding and modernising their own Special Forces. Though much smaller in terms of numbers than the Army’s eight Para-SF and five Para (airborne) battalions, the Garuds and the Marcos are equally geared up for covert operations.


The Garuds, incidentally, came into existence around a decade ago after terrorist attacks on crucial IAF airbases like Awantipora, Srinagar and Guwahati. Operating in “flights” of 60 commandos each, the Garuds are also trained to destroy enemy assets like radars and aircraft as well as “lasing” high-value targets for friendly fighters, and also rescuing pilots who eject behind enemy lines.

The new man-portable drones, with a range over 5-km, will be used for surveillance around vital airbases, counter-terrorism and covert operations. With an operational endurance of over 30 minutes, the lightweight drones are also equipped with FLIR (forward-looking infra-red) payloads, said the report.

IAF To Buy 65 Mini Drones For Garud Commando Force In Rs 27 Crore | Focus News

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## alby

Mean while Pakisthan developed indigenous drones


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF IN NORTH EAST
HYBRID SIGHTS ON BOTH TAVORS. MARS AS WELL AS MAGNIFIERS
Based on specific information from Military Intelligence, Army launched an operation in Chirang district of Assam and apprehended a hardcore National Democratic Front of Bodoland (Songbijit) [NDFB(S)] terrorist. One AK 47 Rifle along with ammunition were recovered from the individual.




MARCOS IN KASHMIR
PROBABLY THIS IS AN OLD PIC.LOOK AT THE CAMO.

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

Maybe it's just me but that rifle (second soldier from the right) looks an awful lot like the HK 416 or is it just the M4 ?


----------



## Unknowncommando

SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> Maybe it's just me but that rifle (second soldier from the right) looks an awful lot like the HK 416 or is it just the M4 ?


its just an m4 bro no hk416.it seems only bcoz the iron sight triangle of m4 is hidden

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

Unknowncommando said:


> its just an m4 bro no hk416.it seems only bcoz the iron sight triangle of m4 is hidden


Yup you're right.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

nsg

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## bloo

Special Frontier Force

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## Bornubus



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## special

PARA SF in kashmir.

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## special



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## Bornubus

*old pic of martyr Major Sudheer walia 9th Para sf*









*Naik velu satish (26/11 operation black tornedo) felicitated by his parent regiment madras engineers ... consider his twin son as his buddy reborn from NSG*

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## special



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## BATTLE FIELD

is paramilitary forces got a special forces unit.
because i saw some men with special forces tags, during our college student union elections.


----------



## Bornubus

BATTLE FIELD said:


> is paramilitary forces got a special forces unit.
> because i saw some men with special forces tags, during our college student union elections.


Crpf - cobra

BSF - Not sure about its name it's more like QRT


----------



## BATTLE FIELD

Bornubus said:


> Crpf - cobra
> 
> BSF - Not sure about its name it's more like QRT


yeah, i think they were from cobra .
thanx


----------



## special

BATTLE FIELD said:


> yeah, i think they were from cobra .
> thanx


no... cobra commandos have only a COMMANDO tab. not SPECIAL FORCES tab.

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## Bornubus

21st para sf

Lt Col Nectar Sanjenbam led *myanmar ops* awarded *Kirti chakra*





Hav Tanka Kumar Limbu (*shaurya chakra*)

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## special

An indian navy marco watching students of Indian Naval Academy (INA), Ezhimala, of the IVth and VIIth term during the camps aimed at inculcating qualities of leadership, camaraderie and team spirit under severe physical and mental duress on the trainees. Over 200 trainees of the Academy participated in these camps spread over four days from Sep 09th. The exercises undertaken by the trainees involved crossing water obstacle course, endurance marches/runs, seamanship activities, and whaler rowing & sailing in backwaters and the high seas with very limited sleep and rest. Camps ‘Samudra-Manthan’ is aimed at testing the trainees to the limits of their physical and mental endurance.

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## special

_"In a few weeks the USS Theodore Roosevelt will visit the Indian Ocean to take part in the annual MALABAR 2015 naval exercise, with the joint participation of the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force. We look forward to the participation by the Indian Air Force in exercise RED FLAG-Alaska next year and the YUDH ABHYAS exercise will continue to expand the interoperability of our armies," said Verma.

*"Our bilateral Special Forces exercise VAJRA PRAHAR will resume again in January 2016 for the first time since 2012. * This is the tempo of a defense relationship between two forces determined to forge a new level of cooperation, and breaking down historical barriers to do so," he added._
Defence News - US looking to make significant contributions to India's strategic capabilities

@Abingdonboy, as i said a while ago the SF exercise vajra prahar never conduced after 2012(which was conducted in Nahan Indo-US Special Forces to conduct joint wargames 'Vajra Prahar' next month | Terminal X )

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## Unknowncommando

NDTV Exclusive: How Special Forces Took Out Terror Camp in Myanmar - NDTV
A must watch vid of Myanmar op with details.

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

IAF Garud Commandos
these are old pics from 81st anniversary of IAF

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## killer elite

Unknowncommando said:


> IAF Garud Commandos
> these are old pics from 81st anniversary of IAF



which helmets is that??


----------



## Abingdonboy

Modi stops his Motorcade outside Delhi Airport after returning from his US/Ireland trip:












He has done this a few times now (at exactly that spot) and once you start becoming predictable you are putting your life in unnecessary danger (not to mention making the job of your security (SPG) impossible).

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## BATTLE FIELD

no helmet?? 
is his head bullet proof?


----------



## BATTLE FIELD

The DJANGO said:


> He is a Sikh..fearless.Are you from India?Havent you seen them ride bike without helmets?


i know... but this question always comes in my mind that how does his turban will protect him from head injuries and sharpnels and how will he wear a helmet mounted NVG, flashlight, camera etc


----------



## Argon Prime

The DJANGO said:


> He is a* Sikh..fearless*.Are you from India?Havent you seen them ride bike without helmets?


Not fearless,plain stupid.................or was it just a sarcasm??



BATTLE FIELD said:


> i know... but this question always comes in my mind that how does his turban will protect him from head injuries and sharpnels and how will he wear a helmet mounted NVG, flashlight, camera etc



It will not,check the Gurudaspur incident.


----------



## Unknowncommando

killer elite said:


> which helmets is that??


http://2.imimg.com/data2/XD/XM/MY-1954359/11373738_bulletproof_helmets-250x250.jpg




@killer elite Its an MICH helmet
Redirect Notice




A momento belongs to 9th para sf

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## killer elite

Unknowncommando said:


>


which type bro??
pasgt, Modular Integrated Communications Helmet (MICH), Advanced Combat Helmet (ACH) or Enhanced Combat Helmet (ECH) which one is this??


----------



## anyrandom

Modi-Zuckerberg Facebook townhall meet.
SPG with Indian flag markings on their coat in US and Secret Service in the background.

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## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> Modi-Zuckerberg Facebook townhall meet.
> SPG with Indian flag markings on their coat in US and Secret Service in the background.


Not Secret Service but Diplomatic Security Service (DSS).


----------



## anyrandom

Abingdonboy said:


> Not Secret Service but Diplomatic Security Service (DSS).



I read somewhere that Secret Service also provides cover to visiting heads of state. Is it true?


----------



## Abingdonboy

anyrandom said:


> I read somewhere that Secret Service also provides cover to visiting heads of state. Is it true?


That's the responsibility of the DSS as far as I know.


----------



## Unknowncommando

SPG

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


I understand that these operators are trying to be "low key" but they really ought to be wearing a helmet, they look incomplete without them the more I look at them. FAST helmets on these chaps would be appropriate (and they can certainly afford them).





Unknowncommando said:


>



CAT during a dress rehearsal and hence not fully "kitted out" (as above).

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## Assault Rifle

Special Forces command coming soon


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/650210324239400960
@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
@Abingdonboy bro i forgot to mention the NSG drill is from oberoi hotel gurgaon and DELHI SWAT IN EMERGENCY SERVICES thread are from random scenes dont exactly remember.Probably from metro stations and other public places.

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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando bloody awesome pictures!! Are these from the Delhi CT task force's drills in Vizag?


+ Please blur out the face of the Singh in the first pic 

++ just goes to show that Sikhs do wear helmets when they need to

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## Unknowncommando

NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG ARMOURY FIRST TIME I AM SEEING M203 UBGL ON SIG552
















NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS OLD TRAINING PICS




IAF GARUDS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS




GARUD COMMANDOS

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## Koovie

BATTLE FIELD said:


> View attachment 261420
> 
> 
> no helmet??
> is his head bullet proof?



Those helmets arent supposed to stop bullets anyways... they are meant to protect your head from falls and debris.



The DJANGO said:


> He is a Sikh..fearless.Are you from India?Havent you seen them ride bike without helmets?



Many people ignore the laws and their safety and dont use helmets.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 262804
> View attachment 262805
> View attachment 262806
> View attachment 262808
> View attachment 262809
> View attachment 262810
> View attachment 262811
> 
> 
> NSG BLACK CAT COMMANDOS OLD TRAINING PICS
> View attachment 262812


Look like they are from 2009ish

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## killer elite

NEW DELHI: India, the US and Japan will together take part in 'Malabar' naval exercise next week in the Bay of Bengal which will see American aircraft Theodore Roosevelt in action along with a nuclear submarine besides Indian and Japanese naval assets. 

A battery of special forces, including Naval commandos Marcos and Explosive Ordnance Disposal Team, will also be deployed. 

India is deploying a Russian-origin submarine besides a R-Class destroyer, one Shivalik Class frigate, one tanker, one Betwa guided missile frigate, a P8i maritime surveillance aircraft and two different types of helicopters

Defence News - India, US, Japan to take part in naval exercise in Bay of Bengal



Unknowncommando said:


>



@Abingdonboy
which NVG is that??? never saw any binocular NVGs like this.


----------



## halloweene

New world distance record... 3695m. On fixed target, but still

Record de distance de tir pour un tireur d'élite — Wikipédia

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## halloweene

Not indian, but you may like this photo

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## Koovie

The DJANGO said:


> NSG in 2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good job in 7 years




But as usual it took a kick into our balls to realize it

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## Abingdonboy

The DJANGO said:


> NSG in 2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good job in 7 years


Still some way to go, this is no time to rest on one's laurels.....

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## killer elite



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## Abingdonboy

killer elite said:


>


"the Few, the Fearless" is a nice tagline and quite fitting for these crazies (a term of endearment in this context).

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## Unknowncommando

NSG JOINT EXERCISE WITH OCTOPUS COMMANDO UNIT OF TELANGANA STATE

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## Unknowncommando



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## alby

Did any one knew the name of that dagger?









Pic courtesy:Ghost


----------



## Abingdonboy

alby said:


> Did any one knew the name of that dagger?
> 
> View attachment 264010
> 
> View attachment 264011
> 
> Pic courtesy:Ghost


Not convinced they are SG


----------



## ranjeet

Did anyone checked out latest Join Indian Army commercial? It looked really nice. Will post it once I find it on net.

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## halloweene

looks like ultima ratio dagger, but no clue


----------



## ranjeet

Has this video been posted already?
Indian Army : A Life Less Ordinary - YouTube

@Abingdonboy


----------



## danish_vij

ranjeet said:


> Has this video been posted already?
> Indian Army : A Life Less Ordinary - YouTube
> 
> @Abingdonboy


i has been posted 2-3 ties i guess!!
never the less amazing video!!! worth posting again

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## ranjeet

danish_vij said:


> i has been posted 2-3 ties i guess!!
> never the less amazing video!!! worth posting again


Thanks bro, there is this commercial it's a edited version of this video which shows only the special forces bit. It looked really cool.

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## danish_vij

ranjeet said:


> Thanks bro, there is this commercial it's a edited version of this video which shows only the special forces bit. It looked really cool.


i know have seen that too
frst i saw 5 min version!! a few days later i saw there exists 11 min version too...!!!!! and i was like is there room for more

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## alby

Abingdonboy said:


> Not convinced they are SG


Sorry, my fault i labelled the pics of ordinary SFF guys as Special group though both are under same command.



alby said:


> Did any one knew the name of that dagger?
> 
> View attachment 264010
> 
> View attachment 264011
> 
> Pic courtesy:Ghost


Sorry the above pics are of S.F.F and not S.G.
Thanks Ghost for clarifying.

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## Abingdonboy

Indian Army ad (featuring PARA (SF)):


INDIAN ARMY SPECIAL FORCES 30SEC - YouTube

Thanks to @levina for posting this 




+ interestingly the Major (and his team) have "12" on their shirts, I wonder what this denotes because there is no 12th PARA (SF or otherwise) battalion as far as I am aware. 

@Unknowncommando I'm sure you can get some nice gifs/screenshots from this video- especially that iconic freefall-go pro jump that one sees depicted in many movies/ads.

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## danish_vij

credits @levina

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## alby



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## Abingdonboy

any pics of the NSG raising day demos?


----------



## Abingdonboy

NSG's 31st Raising Day (16th Oct 2015):









































Can't seem to find any other pics/videos on this event even though last year there was a lot of such material


@Unknowncommando @alby

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## BATTLE FIELD

i have a Question i saw many image of indian forces with UBGL under tar, insas or ak
but i havent saw a single grenade carried by the person... i think they only carry the launcher or few rounds like 2 or 3

few examples=













like other forces=







sorry for off topics


----------



## SRP

Government to provide all critical requirements of NSG: Kiren Rijiju - The Economic Times


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS 31ST RAISING DAY







NSG COMMANDOS

















NSG COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG 31SR RAISING DAY



















NSG BLACK CATS

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG COMMANDOS 31ST RAISING DAY
> View attachment 265293
> View attachment 265294
> 
> NSG COMMANDOS
> 
> View attachment 265295
> View attachment 265296
> View attachment 265298
> View attachment 265297
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG COMMANDOS


Fantastic work bro! You always deliver.


+ interesting to see the operators now wear "NSG" identifiers on themselves.


++ always cool to see the Renault Sherpa- the NSG didn't display it last year.

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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Koovie

Great pics! The NSG looks awesome and well prepared. Nice to see drones as well.

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## Abingdonboy

The DJANGO said:


> @Abingdonboy Red helmet patch for agressor
> Blue green for support?


It is to denote teams and their role (sniper, assault, EOD, dog etc) but I don't think it's wise to be anymore specific about which colours relate to which speciality on an open forum bro. @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR and I had a conversation on this matter not too long ago but we deleted it for sensitivity reasons. Some things are best left unsaid.

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## mkb95

*Para Commandos CQB action! *

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## killer elite

what is this??

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## Whazzup

killer elite said:


> View attachment 267156
> 
> what is this??




Thats a wrist mounted GPS Navigator






Garmin Foretrex 401 – Wrist Mounted GPS Navigator | The Mountain Runner

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## killer elite

marine commandos (marcos) cadets of 1996 batch taking rest after 40KM running with 30KG weight

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## desimorty

> i know... but this question always comes in my mind that how does his turban will protect him from head injuries and sharpnels and how will he wear a helmet mounted NVG, flashlight, camera etc
> 
> Source: Indian Special Forces | Page 411


Don't worry. The turban does that and much more. Even becomes a inflatable raft when drowning. Big Sikh turban conspiracy. Many Sardars died protecting this secret.

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## killer elite

GARUD COMMANDOS

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## mkb95

crpf cobra commando

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## mkb95



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## Abingdonboy

Why aren't there more vids of this?

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## Unknowncommando

IA parachute regiment may be in ladakh

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## killer elite

Weapons seized by Marcos in Anti-Piracy Ops

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## Water Car Engineer

Exercise “Balanced Iroquois”

US army’s Special Forces are conducting their first-ever joint counter-terrorist training with National Security Guards (NSG) at Manesar in Haryana.

India-US anti-terror cooperation: For the first time, NSG commandos train with US Special Forces | The Indian Express

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## Death In Fire

Water Car Engineer said:


> Exercise “Balanced Iroquois”
> 
> US army’s Special Forces are conducting their first-ever joint counter-terrorist training with National Security Guards (NSG) at Manesar in Haryana.


 Why is SRG not participating in the exercise?


----------



## Abingdonboy

Death In Fire said:


> Why is SRG not participating in the exercise?


Why would the SRG be involved? They are not a counter-terror unit, their role priority is VVIP protection and they are slowly being dissolved. 

The SAG are the counter-terror specialists and the ones who will actually conduct any such operation- the SRG will never do so.


----------



## Death In Fire

Abingdonboy said:


> Why would the SRG be involved? They are not a counter-terror unit, their role priority is VVIP protection and they are slowly being dissolved.
> 
> The SAG are the counter-terror specialists and the ones who will actually conduct any such operation- the SRG will never do so.



But a SRG unit was recently converted to Counter terror role.


----------



## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Why aren't there more vids of this?


That was just PM's vehicle crossing by. 
Or did I miss something?

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## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> That was just PM's vehicle crossing by.
> Or did I miss something?


haha no, you didn't miss anything that was it- the PM's motorcade. 

One just don't seem to come across such videos at all- in contrast to the arrangements of other heads of states in the world that are all over youtube. I find it quite interesting to see this as normally you only witness the motorcade during official occasions (R-day, I-day etc) from official sources (DD).



Death In Fire said:


> But a SRG unit was recently converted to Counter terror role.


Not really, post-26/11 they were given a secondary role of "supporting" the SAG for tasks such as perimeter protection and such as a contingency option in case of another large scale attack that stretches SAG's resources. But the SRG are not tasked for the room-intervention/HR/CT role and will NEVER be the first guys in- that will always be SAG.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> haha no, you didn't miss anything that was it- the PM's motorcade.
> 
> One just don't seem to come across such videos at all- in contrast to the arrangements of other heads of states in the world that are all over youtube. I find it quite interesting to see this as normally you only witness the motorcade during official occasions (R-day, I-day etc) from official sources (DD).
> .


I read there's a sniper among the NSG guys who protect PM. True?


----------



## Abingdonboy

levina said:


> I read there's a sniper among the NSG guys who protect PM. True?


Not exactly. During the large official occasions such as R-day/I-day the NSG is deployed (along with a lot of CAPFs) for specific security tasks- one of them being "overwatch" with sniper teams (assault teams are also forward-deployed to act as a QRF in case of an incident). 

The NSG do not directly guard the PM- that is handled by the SPG who have their own counter-sniper unit (CSU) in addition to their Counter Assault Team (CAT). In specific instances (large, pre-planned occasions) the NSG will assist the SPG where possible.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF TRAINING WITH AFGHAN COMMANDOS (OLD PIC FROM 2013)











NSG commandos training in JK















NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG SOME OLD AND TRAINING PICS

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 269279
> View attachment 269280
> View attachment 269281
> View attachment 269282
> 
> NSG SOME OLD AND TRAINING PICS


2010/11?


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## Abingdonboy



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## Unknowncommando

NSG Sherpa
Old pics from rasing day
@Abingdonboy bro i dont know exactly the year of pics previously i posted. In some pics gear seems to be quite old but they can use old gear during training. So cant figure out the exact year.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG Sherpa
> Old pics from rasing day



Nice! The best/closest picture of one of the NSG's Sherpas to date. I'm amazed at the number of journalists invited to these things who take along their cameras for reporting purposes but fail to snap pictures of such significance.


29th Raising day (2014)




Unknowncommando said:


> @Abingdonboy bro i dont know exactly the year of pics previously i posted. In some pics gear seems to be quite old but they can use old gear during training. So cant figure out the exact year.



True, but it doesn't make sense to train in old/phased out equipment. The Indian Mil (and thus NSG) are all about "train as you fight" as such all training will be conducted using the very latest equipment/ and tactics- there's no utility in training in equipment you won't be taking on operations with you.


Hence the latest I would say these pictures were taken is 2011.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG M249 SAW

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## Death In Fire

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 269544
> View attachment 269545
> 
> NSG M249 SAW
> View attachment 269546
> View attachment 269547
> View attachment 269549
> View attachment 269550



Why does a CT unit like NSG need M249?


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS NSG AND CISF COMMANDOS DURING JOINT TRAINING














IAF GARUD COMMANDOS(old pics from 2013 air show nagpur)
@Death In Fire bro sometimes they may need this weapon in open areas.They have to be equipped for all situations.

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos




VBSS

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## Abingdonboy

Death In Fire said:


> Why does a CT unit like NSG need M249?


They are India's last hope in an emergency situation ( I think this line was used by a NSG operator post-26/11) and thus have to be ready to handle anything (within reason) and thus equipped with a vast array of equipment.



Unknowncommando said:


>



@Aminroop @Koovie @Water Car Engineer @Bombaywalla 

So cool.




+ @Unknowncommando a lot of NSG pictures are appearing online these days (most at least 1-2 years old), any idea what the sources are? And would you happen to have any pictures of the ongoing "Balanced Iroquois" exercise between NSG and 1st SFG? I'm eagerly awaiting to see such pictures.



Unknowncommando said:


> MARCOS NSG AND CISF COMMANDOS DURING JOINT TRAINING


Post 26/11 a LOT of emphasis has been put on all these specialist units training with each other (laying the groundwork for the SOCOM of course). I remember there was a picture of an exercise involving all 3 SFs in a joint training in the Andaman's (said to be a regular occurrence now).

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## Koovie

Why is there a sudden surge in NSG pics? 

Anyways, great pics, keep em coming

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## Water Car Engineer

Damn, I remember the how it was in 09, these guys have seriously uped their gear up.

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## Super Commando Dhruva

Abingdonboy said:


> They are India's last hope in an emergency situation ( I think this line was used by a NSG operator post-26/11) and thus have to be ready to handle anything (within reason) and thus equipped with a vast array of equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> @Aminroop @Koovie @Water Car Engineer @Bombaywalla
> 
> So cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> + @Unknowncommando a lot of NSG pictures are appearing online these days (most at least 1-2 years old), any idea what the sources are? And would you happen to have any pictures of the ongoing "Balanced Iroquois" exercise between NSG and 1st SFG? I'm eagerly awaiting to see such pictures.
> 
> 
> Post 26/11 a LOT of emphasis has been put on all these specialist units training with each other (laying the groundwork for the SOCOM of course). I remember there was a picture of an exercise involving all 3 SFs in a joint training in the Andaman's (said to be a regular occurrence now).





Abingdonboy said:


> They are India's last hope in an emergency situation ( I think this line was used by a NSG operator post-26/11) and thus have to be ready to handle anything (within reason) and thus equipped with a vast array of equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> @Aminroop @Koovie @Water Car Engineer @Bombaywalla
> 
> So cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> + @Unknowncommando a lot of NSG pictures are appearing online these days (most at least 1-2 years old), any idea what the sources are? And would you happen to have any pictures of the ongoing "Balanced Iroquois" exercise between NSG and 1st SFG? I'm eagerly awaiting to see such pictures.
> 
> 
> Post 26/11 a LOT of emphasis has been put on all these specialist units training with each other (laying the groundwork for the SOCOM of course). I remember there was a picture of an exercise involving all 3 SFs in a joint training in the Andaman's (said to be a regular occurrence now).





That above sardar Ji look like Rocket singh,

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## Roybot

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 269551
> 
> MARCOS NSG AND CISF COMMANDOS DURING JOINT TRAINING
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF GARUD COMMANDOS(old pics from 2013 air show nagpur)



What's up with the aviators, looks stupid . Give them some proper ballistic tactical sunglasses!

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## Unknowncommando

@Abingdonboy @Koovie guys most of the pics are from fb and random google searches. And i am trying to get more pics and more info about ' Balanced Iroquois'. But not able to find. I am expecting pics from US media side. May be to maintain secrecy they are not releasing pics. Hope we can see more of them soon.
@Roybot dude calm down i was my self present at the air show and i had a long chat with the garuds that day. They said most of the people dont really understand their gear and all stuff. Thats why they dont carry all the gear and other things. That was just a demonstration to show people how they work. They had it .but There was no need of ballistic eyewear type of thing. They didnt even have bullets in their guns that time. It was drill only.

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## Roybot

Unknowncommando said:


> @Abingdonboy @Koovie guys most of the pics are from fb and random google searches. And i am trying to get more pics and more info about ' Balanced Iroquois'. But not able to find. I am expecting pics from US media side. May be to maintain secrecy they are not releasing pics. Hope we can see more of them soon.
> @Roybot dude calm down i was my self present at the air show and i had a long chat with the garuds that day. They said most of the people dont really understand their gear and all stuff. Thats why they dont carry all the gear and other things. That was just a demonstration to show people how they work. They had it .but There was no need of ballistic eyewear type of thing. They didnt even have bullets in their guns that time. It was drill only.



Fair enough, but tactical sunglasses aren't that bulky an equipment, neither is it too hard to explain what they are meant for. Besides I don't think I have ever seen Indian soldiers with ballistic glasses ever, except for the SPG counter assault team. I could be wrong.


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## RPK

@Abingdonboy & @Unknowncommando interested in managing Indian Special Forces facebook page? let me know


----------



## hkdas

nsg training with US special forces in manesar.





marcos

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> nsg training with US special forces in manesar.


Nice find bro! 1st SFG training with the NSG on the a Delhi Metro train (not sure if it is on the actual Delhi Metro or on the simulated train the NSG have at their training centre).

Where did you find this one?



Roybot said:


> Fair enough, but tactical sunglasses aren't that bulky an equipment, neither is it too hard to explain what they are meant for. Besides I don't think I have ever seen Indian soldiers with ballistic glasses ever, except for the SPG counter assault team. I could be wrong.


Don't think I've seen any Garuds with them but I have seen MARCOs, PARA (SF) and even Ghataks with them.


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## Roybot

hkdas said:


> nsg training with US special forces in manesar.
> View attachment 269955



That's the Delhi Airport Metro train

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Where did you find this one?


from official FB page of "US Embassy india" 
Photos from U.S. Embassy India's post - U.S. Embassy India | Facebook



Roybot said:


> That's the Delhi Airport Metro train



its a mock up of Delhi metro in manesar.


----------



## ranjeet

Abingdonboy said:


> haha no, you didn't miss anything that was it- the PM's motorcade.
> 
> One just don't seem to come across such videos at all- in contrast to the arrangements of other heads of states in the world that are all over youtube. I find it quite interesting to see this as normally you only witness the motorcade during official occasions (R-day, I-day etc) from official sources (DD).



One doesn't come across such videos because people don't bother to capture them, I have come across PM's motorcade on this same road like 4-5 times in the last couple of months. If you want I can capture one next time.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Don't think I've seen any Garuds with them

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## Koovie

Can someone ID the new helmets?


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## Abingdonboy

Koovie said:


> Can someone ID the new helmets?

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COUNTER HIGHJACKING EXERCISE shepa in action
@Abingdonboy u will love this














PARA SF
@RPK Well bro i will have to think over it.Not now but will tell you later on.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF with mepro sight on his tavor




NSG


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## Azeri440

Koovie said:


> Can someone ID the new helmets?



just your regular ACH helmet with side mounted rails

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Azeri440 said:


> just your regular ACH helmet with side mounted rails



Looks more like the gigantic Russian helmets... ACH definetly not..


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## Abingdonboy

ranjeet said:


> One doesn't come across such videos because people don't bother to capture them, I have come across PM's motorcade on this same road like 4-5 times in the last couple of months. If you want I can capture one next time.


That would be awesome mate!


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## Whazzup

ranjeet said:


> One doesn't come across such videos because people don't bother to capture them, I have come across PM's motorcade on this same road like 4-5 times in the last couple of months. If you want I can capture one next time.



Is that SP Marg?


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## Unknowncommando

Koovie said:


> Can someone ID the new helmets?


ACH with rails. Rails cant be mounted on russian helmets which NSG is using.




This will give u idea.
The first one is russian and the second one is ACH with rails. It can be easily differentiated by their shape and bulky curve below the rails.

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## Super Commando Dhruva

I still feel that there is no need them to be "Combat ready " 24 X 7 in full Gear, they can have their gear GUNs equipment in their Vehicle , this dress would Kill them from inside, they would get dehydrated from inside. Unless its Extremely important or we are show casing them. (Look at the guy in back ground he is half Tshirt and NSG in monkey CAP Mask. This is Too much, the moment they would take out their Combat gear, you can Fill 2 liters CAN with their *sweat*


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## Abingdonboy

Super Commando Dhruva said:


> I still feel that there is no need them to be "Combat ready " 24 X 7 in full Gear, they can have their gear GUNs equipment in their Vehicle , this dress would Kill them from inside, they would get dehydrated from inside. Unless its Extremely important or we are show casing them. (Look at the guy in back ground he is half Tshirt and NSG in monkey CAP Mask. This is Too much, the moment they would take out their Combat gear, you can Fill 2 liters CAN with their *sweat*


a) Sometimes "full combat" load out s entirely for show i.e. overt posturing may act as a deterrent and may reassure the public 

b) these guys will be incredibly fit and this is their standard load out for conducting operations so will have spent many many hours in this kit and not just standing around but running, shooting, climbing etc. Yes it may be uncomfortable for them but they aren't actors, this is what they do and they accept that. There's no need to feel sorry for them bro- they are all soldiers who have volunteered for this force.


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## Point_4590



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## mkb95

An exclusive photo of Cambrian Patrol Selection Trials (CPST) conducted by Indian Army's Commando Wing in Belgaum.


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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> An exclusive photo of Cambrian Patrol Selection Trials (CPST) conducted by Indian Army's Commando Wing in Belgaum.


Not SF- an infantry school training members of the infantry for an infantry exercise


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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> Not SF- an infantry school training members of the infantry for an infantry exercise


then "Indian Army's Commando Wing" what does it refers to?


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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> then "Indian Army's Commando Wing" what does it refers to?


The "commando" school in Belguam imparts a mandatory training course that all infantry officers have to take after passing out of officer training before joining their infantry battalions. The course is basically an intensive combat leadership one like Ranger school in the US but It is not an SF school.


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## Abingdonboy

I spoke to a friend of mine who is studying in London and was at the Wembley event for Modi and also a few other locations where Modi went to in London. He is into defence stuff (more aviation though) and told me that there was a massive amount of SPG around and they were easy to spot because a) they looked Indian (obviously) and b) they had Indian flag badges on their lapels. It definitely seems to be the case that the SPG now takes care of their own needs when on foreign tours whilst in the past they were less represented and had foreign units more visibly protecting the Indian PM. The SPG's practices when abroad are becoming more and more assertive which is good to see. 

He is also, for some reason, under the impression that their was a SPG Counter Assault Team (CAT) at Modi's hotel in London, I have emailed him back to find out what made him think that so it'll be interesting learn more.

@Koovie @Aminroop [USER=35302]@Roybot @kbd-raaf @Unknowncommando[/USER]

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## Bang Galore



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## Unknowncommando

Garud

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## noksss

Col Santosh Mahadik CO 41 RR/ 21 Para (SF) leaves behind his wife, parents, a son and a daughter. Daughter is barely 4 years old.

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## Indian Patriot

None of the SF forces are using INSAS or desi gear, something must be done to make the SF get rid of their love for phoren maal.


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## Koovie

Indian Patriot said:


> None of the SF forces are using INSAS or desi gear, something must be done to make the SF get rid of their love for phoren maal.


Why should they use INSAS rifles? Why do you think that they are inept of making the right choices when it comes to what they want to carry into battle? 
And why does your spelling suck so hard?


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## Ragnarok connection

The DJANGO said:


> Lets do one thing ...Lets start with you going on the LOC with an INSAS rather than "phoren maal" rather than you talking from your AC room chilling on your couch.
> 
> Meanwhile in Kashmir a SF operator of the elite 21 PARA SF lost his life due to this...Indian maal
> 
> View attachment 273110
> View attachment 273111


Was the colonel using an Insas?


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## Koovie

The DJANGO said:


> Lets do one thing ...Lets start with you going on the LOC with an INSAS rather than "phoren maal" rather than you talking from your AC room chilling on your couch.
> 
> Meanwhile in Kashmir a SF operator of the elite 21 PARA SF lost his life due to this...Indian maal
> 
> View attachment 273110
> View attachment 273111


Dd a bullet penetrate his helmet?


----------



## desimorty

> Lets do one thing ...Lets start with you going on the LOC with an INSAS rather than "phoren maal" rather than you talking from your AC room chilling on your couch.
> 
> Meanwhile in Kashmir a SF operator of the elite 21 PARA SF lost his life due to this...Indian maal
> 
> Source: Indian Special Forces | Page 420


Really? Well if your gonna make big purchases your gonna need forex reserves for that phoren maal. Ontop of that the training is more important than the equipment. Equipment is easy to get, with money but training, discipline, coordination are all hard to get and require a certain amount of sweat. Not blaming the troops, but remember the situation with America, were the Police have more guns than the IA and do they need guns or training?
Also the Patka provides decent protection for someone with a kesh. And INSAS is a rifle that still works. So is any rifle. Shooting ranges are needed and as well as optic sights.
The kind of equipment needed, need not look SPACE age or out of Star Wars.
And at the end of the day the IA brass know better than you.


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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

jatt said:


> And at the end of the day the IA brass know better than you.



Precisely and hence the 'phoren maal', case settled.


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## Water Car Engineer

The DJANGO said:


> View attachment 273110




What happened here?


----------



## Indian Patriot

The DJANGO said:


> Lets do one thing ...Lets start with you going on the LOC with an INSAS rather than "phoren maal" rather than you talking from your AC room chilling on your couch.



If everybody else can chill in their room and comment of Indian Army love for phoren maal why not me?


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## Koovie

Indian Patriot said:


> If everybody else can chill in their room and comment of Indian Army love for phoren maal why not me?



SF units are an exception here. Even US special forces use German, Belgian or whatever equipment. Since their numbers are so small the origin of their equipment isnt as important as compared to equipping over one million men. 

They buy what they think fits their roles best. And thats the optimal solution. Blind nationalism is not gonna help anyone.

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## Unknowncommando

RIP BRAVEHEART

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## Ragnarok connection

The DJANGO said:


> Did the helmet fail or the gun?


He was shot in the neck.

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## bloo



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## Abingdonboy

Indian Patriot said:


> None of the SF forces are using INSAS or desi gear, something must be done to make the SF get rid of their love for phoren maal.


Look around the world- no world class SF unit (Russia, US, UK,France, Italy, Spain, Canada etc etc) is using homemade weaponary.

SF are meant to get the best of the best and that means Israeli or Belgian or German weapons- end of story.



The DJANGO said:


> Meanwhile in Kashmir a SF operator of the elite 21 PARA SF lost his life due to this...Indian maal


He wasn't serving in the SF anymore, he had been in 21 Para (SF) but was the CO of 41 RR when he was killed.



Koovie said:


> Dd a bullet penetrate his helmet?



He was hit in the neck- nothing any BPJ or helmet can do about that.

Every time a soldier is killed in JK we see this knee-jerk "give them proper helmets/BPJs" response but look at the pics- the RR are equipped with very decent BPJs and the Patak is good at its role. There is no such thing as "bullet proof"- only bullet resistent and when engaged at close range by 7.62mm automatic fire (as this unit was) no amount of protective equipment is going to offer you adequte protection. US soldiers are still killed by small arms fire too- one cannot elimnate all risk from combat- this is the nature of combat,

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## Talwar e Pakistan

The DJANGO said:


> Lets do one thing ...Lets start with you going on the LOC with an INSAS rather than "phoren maal" rather than you talking from your AC room chilling on your couch.
> 
> Meanwhile in Kashmir a SF operator of the elite 21 PARA SF lost his life due to this...Indian maal
> 
> View attachment 273110
> View attachment 273111



You call those special forces?


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## Abingdonboy

The DJANGO said:


> headshot penetrating the patka...or maybe a neckshot followed by a soldier inserting a screw driver to make it look like a headshot.


He was shot multiple times by full automatic fire in the head anf neck and the wound to the neck is what proved fatal. 



The DJANGO said:


> So he lost his SF operator tag and badge after voluntarily joining RR according to you?



Of course not- once SF, always SF, but he wasn't serving in a SF unit when he died. He was the CO of 41 RR- not a member of 21 Para (SF). To say, as you did, "a SF operator of the elite 21 PARA SF lost his life " is a bit misleading brother.

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## Didact

Abingdonboy said:


> He was hit in the neck- nothing any BPJ or helmet can do about that.
> 
> Every time a soldier is killed in JK we see this knee-jerk "give them proper helmets/BPJs" response but look at the pics- the RR are equipped with very decent BPJs and the Patak is good at its role. There is no such thing as "bullet proof"- only bullet resistent and when engaged at close range by 7.62mm automatic fire (as this unit was) no amount of protective equipment is going to offer you adequte protection. US soldiers are still killed by small arms fire too- one cannot elimnate all risk from combat- this is the nature of combat,



Well, unfortunately in this case, the BPJ does need to be apportioned a significant part of the blame. The standard BPJ of the IA was intended to provide all round protection to the neck against 7.62x39 at 10m. Unfortunately, t*he design is flawed; the BPJ is a loose fit around the neck, so much so it takes minimum movement for the section protecting the neck to slide down/unravel and expose the neck. *

There is also a problem, mostly among the CAPF, of keeping the neck protector lowered to improve comfort. That defeats the very rationale of keeping those protector. 

The term 'bullet proof' is fairly accurate for steel/carbide plate based BPJs used by the IA. *They are required and designed to conform to protection requirement of safety against 7.62x39 @ 10m from the gun.* And being made of metal as against ceramic, these armor plates will hold against multiple hits, it's another issue that the person will almost certainly suffer broken ribs. 

*I remember one of the accounts of an officer who lunged at a militant during an encounter in the forests of tral, 2009-10(?) and took a long burst of Ak rounds around his chest and stomach region at point-blank range. His armor protected him and he made quick work of the militant,* It is another matter that he suffered from broken ribs and internal bleeding. He won a bravery award for his actions during this encounter.

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## Abingdonboy

Didact said:


> Well, unfortunately in this case, the BPJ does need to be apportioned a significant part of the blame. The standard BPJ of the IA was intended to provide all round protection to the neck against 7.62x39 at 10m. Unfortunately, t*he design is flawed; the BPJ is a loose fit around the neck, so much so it takes minimum movement for the section protecting the neck to slide down/unravel and expose the neck. *
> 
> There is also a problem, mostly among the CAPF, of keeping the neck protector lowered to improve comfort. That defeats the very rationale of keeping those protector.
> 
> The term 'bullet proof' is fairly accurate for steel/carbide plate based BPJs used by the IA. *They are required and designed to conform to protection requirement of safety against 7.62x39 @ 10m from the gun.* And being made of metal as against ceramic, these armor plates will hold against multiple hits, it's another issue that the person will almost certainly suffer broken ribs.
> 
> *I remember one of the accounts of an officer who lunged at a militant during an encounter in the forests of tral, 2009-10(?) and took a long burst of Ak rounds around his chest and stomach region at point-blank range. His armor protected him and he made quick work of the militant,* It is another matter that he suffered from broken ribs and internal bleeding. He won a bravery award for his actions during this encounter.


The kind og BPJs the RR are now being issued (and was used by this officer ad his unit) do not have any neck protector:



















This is by design, the RR were explicitly looking for a lightweight BPJ as previous generations had been a major pain for soldiers in the COIN enviroment. The RR's expereince meant they favoured mobility over neck protection, these black BPJs are lightweight but offer good protection for the covered areas.

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## Unknowncommando

Col Santosh Mahadik (2nd from right) shooting during practice when he was in 21st PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## mkb95

nsg

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## Unknowncommando

Indian Navy Marcos with manipur police commandos at Manesar Nsg training centre







NSG

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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando bro, it is very important to maintain OPSEC. And I would ask you to blur out the faces of the NSG operators present during the Grudaspur Attack. This is a live CounterTerror team who will still be made up of the same guys today, posting the faces of serving NSG operators (from SAG) like that on an open forum is not wise.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG AT GRUDASPUR




51 SAG NSG WITH FOREIGN INSTRUCTOR










NSG commandos

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## mkb95

nsg has seen most improvement in equipment and protection in recent years.


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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> nsg has seen most improvement in equipment and protection in recent years.


Considering the absymal state they were in 2008 they NEEDED to be better equipped. And judging by the kind of threatd facing the world today from Mumbai-like sttacks (Kenyan mall, Charlie Hebdo and recently in Paris) these forces need to be at the top of their game- thehy are the ones who will be at the forefront of any intervention. 

I just hope the state and city police special response units are being given a heck of a lot more attention in the past few months in light of these events. Any major city needs to have the capability to have well armed and well equipped police units containing the situation within 20 minuets of any such incident. The NSG will take at least an hour to reach any such site no matter where it is in the country.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## mkb95

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 274460
> View attachment 274461
> 
> NSG


really amazing phots.thanks for sharing.
if u dont mind me asking,can you tell how u get these photos?


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


In Vizag, right?


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> In Vizag, right?


Yes bro. 
@mkb95 bro just by random search on fb twitter and google. Few are sent by frds.

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## mkb95




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## Indian Patriot

Abingdonboy said:


> Look around the world- no world class SF unit (Russia, US, UK,France, Italy, Spain, Canada etc etc) is using homemade weaponary.



Russian SF are using Indian INSAS?



Abingdonboy said:


> SF are meant to get the best of the best and that means Israeli or Belgian or German weapons- end of story.



So INSAS is not a world class weapon according to you?


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## Unknowncommando

Marcos








NSG

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## Abingdonboy

Indian Patriot said:


> Russian SF are using Indian INSAS?


Where did I say that?



Indian Patriot said:


> So INSAS is not a world class weapon according to you?


Of course it isn't, neither is the SA-80 or FAMAS but they are still the standard issue rifle for their respective regular units.

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## Indian Patriot

Abingdonboy said:


> Of course it isn't, neither is the SA-80 or FAMAS but they are still the standard issue rifle for their respective regular units.



SA-80 and FAMAS are generations ahead of INSAS. Russians and Israelis use their own weapons just like Americans use their own. The logic behind using multiple types of firearms in SF is very simple. SF work undercover and their primary objective is not to leave any trace behind of their existence. Using different types of weapons not only makes them verstaile in weapons handling but it is also practical. In iraq many US SF would be using AK-47s for obvious reasons. 

In India the case is different. INSAS sucks and the army does not want that garbage of a rifle.


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## Mike_Brando

Indian Patriot said:


> SA-80 and FAMAS are generations ahead of INSAS. Russians and Israelis use their own weapons just like Americans use their own. The logic behind using multiple types of firearms in SF is very simple. SF work undercover and their primary objective is not to leave any trace behind of their existence. Using different types of weapons not only makes them verstaile in weapons handling but it is also practical. In iraq many US SF would be using AK-47s for obvious reasons.
> 
> In India the case is different. INSAS sucks and the army does not want that garbage of a rifle.


So says a man who probably never had the opportunity of handling a firearm let alone an INSAS.Let me clear the air here once and for all,i was a NCC cadet for at least 3 years in my life and believe me all my instructors showered heaps of praises for the INSAS a.r. for it's incredible accuracy,reliability and maintenance free nature.The same have been said by a couple of friends of mine who are currently serving in the Indian Army as infantry officers.According to them,the performance of INSAS is way better than the Indian made FN FAL(which i had fired numerous times during my stint with the NCC) in terms of reliability and due to it's compactness.Now tell me how can all these people who have served quite a bit in the Indian Armed Forces be wrong about a simple assault rifle!!Now,stop derailing the thread,it's not about INSAS,it's about the Indian Special Forces!!

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## Abingdonboy

Indian Patriot said:


> SA-80 and FAMAS are generations ahead of INSAS


By what measure? The FAMAS and SA-80 are both 1980s deisgns and the orginal SA-80 had some serious fundamental design flaws that Hecklar and Koch addressed but many remain to this day.

The INSAS is easily one of the most succesful rifles in history given the millions of units made- this far eclipses the limted production run of the FAMAS or SA-80 and most other rifles one could care to mention.



Indian Patriot said:


> Russians and Israelis use their own weapons just like Americans use their own


Not true at all, Russian SF use *German* weapons (Alpha and Spetnez use HK-416), Israeli SF (and IDF as a whole) use American Colt M4s alongside the Tavor family, the US SF uses many *German* weapons (HK-416/7 and Mp-7) alongside the *Belgian* FN-SCAR. And almost all modern SF units use *Austrian* pistols (Glocks), in fact the standard issue side arm (M9) of the US military is *Italian* (Berretta). The US Secret Service also uses the *Belgian* FN Five Seven and P-90s.

Your generalisations do not hold up to any level of scrutiny.



Indian Patriot said:


> The logic behind using multiple types of firearms in SF is very simple. SF work undercover and their primary objective is not to leave any trace behind of their existence


You are confusing issues. In certain instances this is true but most of the time SF units have foreign weapons as their standard issue rifles. This is true for all the top SF units in the world- US, Israeli, UK, France, Canada, Australia, Russia etc.


You will see there are very few truly world class small arms manufactuerers in the world- HK (German), FN (Belgian), Sig Suaer (Swiss), Colt (American), IWI (Israeli) and Glock (Austrian)- most of the world's elite units (and in many Western nations even their regulars) use weapons from the above companies regardless of their own domestic firms' abilties.




Indian Patriot said:


> . In iraq many US SF would be using AK-47s for obvious reasons.


When are you talking about? During the occupation (2003-) the US SOFs were using M4s, HK-416s (German) and FN SCARs (Belgian).



Indian Patriot said:


> In India the case is different. INSAS sucks and the army does not want that garbage of a rifle.



BS. They have been using it for more than 2 decades now with millions in service and it is their standard issue weapon. They want a replacment as it is over 20 years old but that doesn't mean it hasn't served them well. It has perfomed in every enviroment they have asked from the heights of Siachin to the deserts of Thar and everywhere in betweeen.

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## Indian Patriot

Abingdonboy said:


> By what measure? The FAMAS and SA-80 are both 1980s deisgns and the orginal SA-80 had some serious fundamental design flaws that Hecklar and Koch addressed but many remain to this day.



What design flaws are you talking about?

AK-47 and AUG Steyr are also very old designs but they are still better than INSAS in accuracy and reliability. 



Abingdonboy said:


> Not true at all, Russian SF use *German* weapons (Alpha and Spetnez use HK-416), Israeli SF (and IDF as a whole) use American Colt M4s alongside the Tavor family, the US SF uses many *German* weapons (HK-416/7 and Mp-7) alongside the *Belgian* FN-SCAR. And almost all modern SF units use *Austrian* pistols (Glocks), in fact the standard issue side arm (M9) of the US military is *Italian* (Berretta). The US Secret Service also uses the *Belgian* FN Five Seven and P-90s.



LOL!! *All SF do not use a single model of weapons.* 

Their will be diversity of weapons for obvious reasons. US SF may even use INSAS as a training and evaluation tool to estimate he war potential of Indian army, that doesn't mean INSAS will become US SF standard issue. Do you even know why SF uses different types of weapons or are you talking out of thin air?



Abingdonboy said:


> Your generalisations do not hold up to any level of scrutiny.



Don't confuse your ignorance for scrutiny.



Abingdonboy said:


> You are confusing issues. In certain instances this is true but most of the time SF units have foreign weapons as their standard issue rifles. This is true for all the top SF units in the world- US, Israeli, UK, France, Canada, Australia, Russia etc.



Bollocks!

If US and Germany are to go to war what will the Americans say, "Hello Germans, we ran out of spare parts for our weapons to attack you. Kindly do the needful, we will pay the settlements after the war is over".



Abingdonboy said:


> You will see there are very few truly world class small arms manufactuerers in the world



Shows how little you know. 



Abingdonboy said:


> When are you talking about? During the occupation (2003-) the US SOFs were using M4s, HK-416s (German) and FN SCARs (Belgian).










Abingdonboy said:


> BS. They have been using it for more than 2 decades now with millions in service and it is their standard issue weapon.



"Millions in service"? LOL!! Do you know how many battalions are there in IA, and how many rifles they have? 



Abingdonboy said:


> They want a replacment as it is over 20 years old but that doesn't mean it hasn't served them well.



They want a replacement because the weapon sucks and they had to face losses. 

CRPF wants defective INSAS rifles replaced : India, News - India Today



Abingdonboy said:


> It has perfomed in every enviroment they have asked from the heights of Siachin to the deserts of Thar and everywhere in betweeen.



You forgot to insert "poorly" between performed and in every environment.



Mike_Brando said:


> So says a man who probably never had the opportunity of handling a firearm let alone an INSAS



Greetings Rambo.



Mike_Brando said:


> .Let me clear the air here once and for all,i was a NCC cadet for at least 3 years in my life and believe me all my instructors showered heaps of praises for the INSAS a.r. for it's incredible accuracy,reliability and maintenance free nature.



And I am the General of Indian army. So your dubious claims must also be true. 



Mike_Brando said:


> The same have been said by a couple of friends of mine who are currently serving in the Indian Army as infantry officers.



Usually it is some "uncle" or "close relative" serving in the army, it is refreshing to read some new adjectives like "couple of friends". 



Mike_Brando said:


> According to them,the performance of INSAS is way better than the Indian made FN FAL(which i had fired numerous times during my stint with the NCC) in terms of reliability and due to it's compactness.



And for a Internet Rambo like you the Indian manufactured FN-FAL is the ultimate in technology? You fool, INSAS weighs nearly the same as an FN-FAL minus the stopping power of a 7.62x51 mm round. Those morons you call instructors and friends know nothing about firearms if they consider INSAS a world class rifle.



Mike_Brando said:


> Now tell me how can all these people who have served quite a bit in the Indian Armed Forces be wrong about a simple assault rifle!!



A coof in the Indian Army can also claim service of 10 years even if he has never fired a rifle.



Mike_Brando said:


> Now,stop derailing the thread,it's not about INSAS,it's about the Indian Special Forces!!



And how do Special Forces fight, by playing antakshari?

The weapons of Special Forces are what makes and defines them. Nobody taught you this simple fact in your imaginary stint with NCC? Now go and fetch the ball.

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## Bang Galore

Living and dying in the Special Forces - Livemint


*Living and dying in the Special Forces*

_Inside the world of the secretive 9 Para SF, involved in ceaseless battle in the rugged, forested mountains along the LoC _

*Rudraneil Sengupta*




_A member of the 9 Para during a training exercise. Photo: Rudraneil Sengupta

_
On the morning of 26 August, a sunny, warm day, the 9 Para were called in. They had been waiting for this call. Three days earlier, on being tipped off that a group of five militants was moving through the forests of Kazi Nag, high up in the Uri area of north Kashmir, the army and Jammu and Kashmir Police had launched an operation. Moving in a large cordon, the soldiers had closed in on the militant group by 25 August. A gun battle ensued, and one militant was shot down. Four others escaped, moving across a ridge line on to higher, more rugged terrain. They were armed well, and moving fast.

At their base in north Kashmir, members of the 9 Para, the Special Forces (SF) unit of the army trained specifically for quick engagements in formidable mountain areas, got ready. Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami was his usual cheerful self, checking on others in his team, making sure the men were carrying the correct weapons and gear. Self-assured and soft-spoken, Goswami could, in his quiet way, inspire both calm and confidence. Goswami was not tall, but he was big-boned and lean, a trained mountaineer, and, as his commanding officer described him, “a happy mix of humility and deep power”.





Minutes later, a small assault team, Goswami with them, was airborne. They were dropped by helicopter—“hepter”, in army language—to the place where the militants had been last sighted, more than 9,000ft up in the mountain. The army and the police had cordoned off a large circumference around the area, and, according to the army, intercepted a radio call from the militants to their handler in Pakistan saying that they were surrounded. Picking their way carefully through thick forest, and then on to the higher, rocky reaches of the mountain, the team from 9 Para searched for the terrorists. It needed patience and caution. House-sized boulders surrounded them. There were deep caves on the mountain face. You could be ambushed from anywhere.

The 9 Para likes places like this: The boulder fields provide excellent cover, if you know how to move through them; but each one could also hold danger, a militant lurking behind it. By noon, there was contact. Moving slowly, silently, with infinite patience, the SF men spotted a foot jutting out of a cave.

Goswami, at the front of the assault team, called out a challenge. There was a burst of fire in return. Following the direction of fire, the 9 Para fired back.

“_Ek koh laga hai_”, Goswami said over the radio, “one of them has been hit”.

The cave system the militants were using as cover was complex, surrounded by rocks and trees and at a tricky elevation. When the bursts of fire died down, the men from 9 Para began to fan out, taking up ambush positions around the cave, sealing off exit routes.

Radios fell silent.

Then they waited. The sounds of the forest replaced the sound of gunfire; a drowsy hum of insects. At nightfall, a militant tried to break free, firing and running, and was shot down.

The 9 Para tightened their ambush positions, prepared to wait again. There was a brief downpour, drenching everything, and the night plunged into cold.

“You know what I hate the most in the world?” said G, an officer of the 9 Para, speaking to me later at their unmarked headquarters in Udhampur, just outside of Jammu (the members of the 9 Para spoke to me on conditions of anonymity). “Dew, man!”

“You hold your position, you stay perfectly still, for hours and hours. Your body hates you for it, but then it accepts it. Night falls, and it starts getting cold, and still it’s okay. But then, around 2 in the morning, the dew starts.

“We can’t wear any plastic layers because it makes noise. So the dew seeps in, it gets into everything, it goes into your bones slowly. And still you have to sit there, getting colder and colder. You can’t even sneeze. I hate dew, man!”

That night, the wind grew too, chilling the already soaked men further. Goswami and the men ate a couple of _puris_ with pickle deep in the night, a frugal dinner.

At daybreak, communicating silently with hand signals, the assault team broke cover and inched forward. They were met by a hail of fire. Bullets ricocheted off the boulders with deadly unpredictability. Then a couple of grenades flew in, bursting dangerously close, sending splinters flying. The militants too were cold, hungry, and cornered now, after four days of enduring the roughest of conditions. There was no more time left. They had been squeezed into the tightest of spots. One of them fired, and was shot back. There was a lull. One more down. Now two two-men teams got to the mouth of the cave. Goswami assumed a cover-fire position behind a rock. The advance teams now switched to non-lethal weapons, rolling in a couple of chilli grenades into the cave. It started to rain again. The two commandos outside the cave called out to the solitary militant inside. “Throw your weapons and come out, and we won’t kill you. You have no chance of coming out alive if you keep fighting.”

Weeping from the chilli grenades, cold, wet and emaciated, the last militant stepped out of the cave. It was still early in the day on 27 August.

At around the same time, hearing of the capture of the militant, the commanding officer (CO) of the 9 Para, a lean, angular man built like a marathon-runner, and with an unrelenting gaze that bores into you like a harpoon, went up to the 9 Para’s base of operations in north Kashmir. He congratulated his men, hung around to drink a cup of tea with them and left to meet the prisoner.

One of the militants killed had become a father recently back in Pakistan, the CO learnt, and so he asked the captured militant, 22-year-old Sajjad Ahmed from Muzaffargarh in south-west Pakistan and a Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operative, what would now happen to the fatherless child.

“He said ‘in jihad, no one has to take care of anybody’,” the CO told me. “When I asked him why he joined the jihad, he said that they were told that all Muslims in India live under terrible oppression and the situation is so bad that they are not allowed to do _namaz_.”

Ahmed is the third of four sons and a daughter born to landless farm labourers. When he was 10 years old, he dropped out of school to work as a farm hand. As teenagers, he and his brothers worked as labourers on construction sites, and then as a truck-driver’s help—a job notorious for being brutal and abusive. Ahmed moved to a more lucrative trade, working with a drug gang that ran heroin. In 2008, when he was 16, Ahmed was arrested for murder—he allegedly shot a man who was said to be harassing a friend’s sister. He was bailed out by the girl’s family. He fell in love with the girl, but was rejected by the family—she got married to a local vet instead. Ahmed developed a heroin habit himself, and began a life of homelessness. In 2011, he was acquitted in the murder case. A year later, Ahmed told army investigators that he met a preacher from the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a politico-religious organization under whose umbrella the LeT operates. Here was food, shelter and a way out of addiction. He volunteered for armed training and quickly moved from Daura-e-Aam, or basic combat training, to Daura-e-Suffa, or intermediate training, and finally, Daura-e-Khaas, advanced training. He tried once in 2013 to infiltrate through the line of control (LoC), but was rebuffed, he told the army. He lived on an LeT stipend. His parents and brothers did not want him to join the LeT, but were glad for the money and the prestige it brought them, Ahmed told the army. They are desperately poor, he said.

“It’s a cruel world,” the CO told me, with the weight of a deeply felt conviction. “We don’t think of militants as evil—enemies, yes, but not evil. We know the conditions they come from, and if we were put in their situation, we would probably do the same. But the world is cruel, society is hard; if women can’t step out at night in our country’s Capital without the fear of being raped...well...evil is a complicated concept.”

The CO of the 9 Para is a thoughtful man who chooses his words carefully. He exudes a sense of calm and the twitch of a man capable of hard, decisive action all at the same time. He does not wear his epaulettes, or the maroon beret that marks a soldier out as part of the Special Forces. Like his men, he shows no signs of fatigue, and no dip in intensity, though he may have been working without rest for 14 hours. He comes from a farming family, and his father is a retired infantry officer—“I was fascinated by the army right from my early childhood,” he says. He has two sons of his own, aged 8 and 3. When he was training at the National Defence Academy (NDA), he met some instructors from Special Forces, and his fascination grew deeper.

“They were seriously tough nuts, no fear at all,” he says. “I had the self-conception of being tough as well, and fearless, and I thought this is what I really want to do.” He volunteered for SF training. In 2001, he became an SF officer. Next year, Goswami joined the SF and the two met for the first time.

The CO likes to think of himself as a wolf; he took the call sign Lupus in his earlier days. “An SF guy has to be like a wolf,” he says. “A wolf lays ambushes, can pursue its prey for miles and miles over days, is tremendously resilient, and very, very loyal to its family.” A team commander christened him Adolphus, “noble wolf”. A strangely loaded name.

The 9 Para enjoy the reputation of being the toughest of India’s SF battalions—of which there are seven in all—and think of themselves, without exception, as warriors to the core. They are not commandos, they will tell you—their training is far more specialized.









They go through a nine-month course at the Special Forces training centre in Nahan, Himachal Pradesh, and then have a further three months of probation—more advanced training—at whichever SF battalion they join.

The probation period has a special place of pride. More than 90% of those who volunteer for SF training drop out by the end of probation. The details of the training, as I was told over and over again, are classified.

“Let’s just say,” says G, “that you never, ever forget probation.”

Apart from specialized weapons training and tactical warfare training, the men of the 9 Para are put through a tremendous amount of physical and psychological stress.

“We are pushed till we break, that’s the aim,” says G, a lanky, lean man with the slightly awkward, forward-leaning lope of a mountaineer who talks and moves in speedy bursts. Like most of the 9 Para, he keeps a scraggly, long beard. The SF are the only ones in the army allowed this luxury; it also helps them blend in their area of operations.

“It’s about honesty,” G says. “So one of the things that we are put through during probation is sleep deprivation while training. I went without sleep for 11 days. After the fourth or fifth day, I would nod off anywhere, standing, sitting, while talking...and someone would prod me to keep me awake. Was I cold? Was I tired? Did I hurt? Was I wet? I don’t remember.

“So I ask you now, ‘are you honest?’ And you will say, ‘yes, of course’. I will ask you that again after the full deprivation.”

The 9 Para are also trained in combat free fall, or CFF, which involves learning both Halo (high altitude low opening) and Haho (high altitude high opening) parachute jumps. Or you could specialize in combat diving. They are called to fish out bodies from rivers in Kashmir after car and bus accidents with disturbing regularity. As we were talking, G responded to a call about a bus that had fallen into the Chenab. A combat diving team was sent out.

The 9 Para are in a constant state of battle. Their task is largely to prevent infiltrating militants from getting to populated areas, or setting up a base of operations inside Kashmir. “You don’t want a major gun-battle or bombs going off in a civilian area, so we work non-stop to contain the infiltrators,” the CO says. When there is intelligence of terrorist movement in the mountains and forests of north Kashmir, the 9 Para are called in (two other SF units also operate in Kashmir, the 1 Para and 4 Para). When Goswami and his colleagues captured Ahmed, it was his second operation in as many weeks.

From January this year till 1 November, there have already been 20 encounters with militants, resulting in the death of 53 insurgents, 22 army personnel, and four civilians, according to the South Asia Terrorism Portal (and this is not counting ceasefire violations along the LoC, which is a headache for the normal army). On 23 August, in an encounter on the outskirts of a village in the Handwara region, a team of 9 Para, including Goswami, gunned down three militants.

“We are either in an op (operation), or preparing for one, or coming back from one,” the CO says.

In this frenzied state, death is always a close companion.

The CO officer recalls a breathless operation from his early days, a pursuit he was leading through dense forests in heavy fog. At one point, already well into the encounter, and looking for the scattered militants, the CO slipped on a ledge and broke his fall by grabbing a bush. The militants were right under him. Before they could figure out what had happened, the CO had pulled himself up. The next second, a grenade looped up towards him and fell between his legs.

“I looked at it, and froze,” he says. “My buddy started saying, _‘phenko, phenko, phenko’_—‘throw it, throw it, throw it’—so I threw it down without thinking. It went off less than a couple of feet under me.”

“We will go to death with our eyes closed,” says an officer from Bihar who shares G’s scraggly bearded look and rapid-fire speech, over dinner one night.

“Perhaps I will go with my eyes open,” says G, and laughs.

Then they show me a video on their cellphone of a Halo dive when G’s parachute was not opening.

“My buddy on the jump was shouting at me, are you filming? Are you filming? And I’m like, **** this, is this the end?”

You could see the farm-gridded land coming up rapidly and jerkily in the footage, and, in the distance, the other jumper gliding down, parachute open. Finally, heart-stoppingly close to the ground, G’s parachute opens. You can hear him sucking in his breath in relief.

G, 26, is the son of a high-ranking officer in the army who was staunchly opposed to his son’s choice of volunteering for the SF. “We are misfits,” he says. “The army likes people who have a narrow bandwidth, you know, people who follow orders and don’t think beyond that. We have to think on our own, we have to be entirely independent. How else can you handle the fact that every week we are dropped into some vast, unknown forest area, on steep slopes, in complete darkness, and told, here, this is where you have to fight? I bet you not one of the SF officers will last in the regular army too long.”

On 2 September, just six days after Goswami had participated in the operation in the forests in Handwara, he was getting ready to go back into an operation in the same area. The army had already launched a search-and-cordon operation on the densely forested slopes near a village called Sochalwari in Kupwara after reports of militant movements. Two troops of the 9 Para—almost a 100 men—were inserted into the area just before dusk. Goswami was paired with Mahender Singh, a combat diver and mountaineer.

Goswami and Singh knew each other from their earliest days in the unit. When Goswami married in 2007, Singh had gone for the ceremony. When Goswami’s daughter was born two years later, Singh had gone to see her. Both Goswami and Singh come from villages with a military tradition. Goswami, whose father was in the Assam Rifles, a paramilitary force, came from a farming family near Nainital. His father died when he was very young, but there was little doubt that Goswami too would take to the military. Singh had joined the 9 Para a couple of years before Goswami and comes from the Jhunjhunu district of Rajasthan, a recruiting haven for the army. Singh’s elder brother Ram Niwas was in the 9 Para too, and, according to Singh, picked him up and dragged him to the army’s recruiting centre in Agra after he finished schooling.

“I had no choice, really,” Singh says.

The day of the 2 September operation, Singh says Goswami was raring to go, even after two back-to-back operations. “He had just come back from a rare holiday, so he just wanted to be in action,” Singh says.

When they got to the village, the 9 Para were shown the area where an unknown number of militants were thought to be hiding. Ahead of them was an area of very dense undergrowth, sloping steeply upwards into denser forests of _deodar_, _chinar_, spruce, birch and juniper, criss-crossed by lots of mountain streams. Even in clear daylight, anyone could hide in the forest and not be seen. The men of the 9 Para began their patient search. Darkness fell.

At around 8 at night, deep in the forest, the SF men saw and heard something moving around a 100m ahead of them.

“Movement,” the call went out on the radio.

A challenge was made by one of the SF men: “_Tham! _(Stop!)”

A burst of gunfire came their way. They fired back, fell into cover positions. Then came the wait. After a few hours, a small assault team started to inch forward. At around midnight, Singh and Goswami and four other men began a manoeuvre to cut off the likeliest exit route for the militants.

“We were seeing only through the night-vision sights of our rifles,” Singh says. “Inside a dense forest like that, it’s extremely hard to spot anything through the sights. You cannot see a man, only catch the movement really.”

The 9 Para were in the trickiest of positions, boxed into a single forested slope, all sight lines hidden by trees. Sensing that the soldiers were closing in, the militants began lobbing grenades.

“That’s when we knew we were very close to them—not more than 60m,” says Singh. “They were just a little above us in the forest.”

Two of the men in Singh’s team got hit by splinters, and one began to bleed. Goswami and Singh were immediately by their side. The militants started firing.

“So now we were seeing where the terrorists were, by the flash of their guns” Singh says. “They were to our right and to our left, just above us.”

Goswami gave cover-fire as Singh worked to extricate the two injured men. One militant was shot down by Goswami. As he was moving out, a bullet hit Singh. Goswami saw the flare of the gun and took a shot in the direction. A second militant was down. Goswami kept up a steady stream of cover-fire.

“Don’t come closer, I will extricate myself,” Singh told the others in his team over the radio.

“My upper body felt perfectly fine,” Singh says. “I was firing, I was talking on the radio, but my legs had lost all sensation. I sensed that my legs were swelling up rapidly, and my knees were moving any which way. I told Goswami that I’m rolling out.”





As Singh slid himself down towards safety, Goswami kept firing in short bursts in the direction of the militants, while other members of the unit moved towards him. Now a bullet hit Goswami in the right thigh. He fired back. Another bullet hit him, this one in the abdomen. He kept firing. The last militant went down. The firing stopped. It was around 3 in the morning. Within minutes, his colleagues were next to Goswami, carrying him down the mountain towards the road, where ambulances and other support vehicles and teams waited. Goswami died before they could get him to a vehicle.
Singh, who had been carried by his colleagues for more than an hour to be evacuated, had no idea what had happened. That very day he was stabilized at the army’s field hospital in Srinagar and then airlifted to the army hospital in New Delhi.

When I met Singh, a long scar ran down his stomach. The AK-47 bullet had entered from the left of the abdomen and exited from the right, hitting his liver, kidneys and vertebrae on the way. Though he has had three operations, he has no movement in his limbs from the waist down and has started physiotherapy. He was told of Goswami’s death only much later, after all his surgeries were over.

“I wake up some times and forget he is dead,” Singh says. “I start asking for him.”


Related:
J&K: Army jawan lays down his life after killing 10 terrorists in 11 days | The Indian Express

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## Abingdonboy

Bang Galore said:


> Living and dying in the Special Forces - Livemint
> 
> 
> *Living and dying in the Special Forces*
> 
> _Inside the world of the secretive 9 Para SF, involved in ceaseless battle in the rugged, forested mountains along the LoC _
> 
> *Rudraneil Sengupta*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A member of the 9 Para during a training exercise. Photo: Rudraneil Sengupta
> 
> _
> On the morning of 26 August, a sunny, warm day, the 9 Para were called in. They had been waiting for this call. Three days earlier, on being tipped off that a group of five militants was moving through the forests of Kazi Nag, high up in the Uri area of north Kashmir, the army and Jammu and Kashmir Police had launched an operation. Moving in a large cordon, the soldiers had closed in on the militant group by 25 August. A gun battle ensued, and one militant was shot down. Four others escaped, moving across a ridge line on to higher, more rugged terrain. They were armed well, and moving fast.
> 
> At their base in north Kashmir, members of the 9 Para, the Special Forces (SF) unit of the army trained specifically for quick engagements in formidable mountain areas, got ready. Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami was his usual cheerful self, checking on others in his team, making sure the men were carrying the correct weapons and gear. Self-assured and soft-spoken, Goswami could, in his quiet way, inspire both calm and confidence. Goswami was not tall, but he was big-boned and lean, a trained mountaineer, and, as his commanding officer described him, “a happy mix of humility and deep power”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minutes later, a small assault team, Goswami with them, was airborne. They were dropped by helicopter—“hepter”, in army language—to the place where the militants had been last sighted, more than 9,000ft up in the mountain. The army and the police had cordoned off a large circumference around the area, and, according to the army, intercepted a radio call from the militants to their handler in Pakistan saying that they were surrounded. Picking their way carefully through thick forest, and then on to the higher, rocky reaches of the mountain, the team from 9 Para searched for the terrorists. It needed patience and caution. House-sized boulders surrounded them. There were deep caves on the mountain face. You could be ambushed from anywhere.
> 
> The 9 Para likes places like this: The boulder fields provide excellent cover, if you know how to move through them; but each one could also hold danger, a militant lurking behind it. By noon, there was contact. Moving slowly, silently, with infinite patience, the SF men spotted a foot jutting out of a cave.
> 
> Goswami, at the front of the assault team, called out a challenge. There was a burst of fire in return. Following the direction of fire, the 9 Para fired back.
> 
> “_Ek koh laga hai_”, Goswami said over the radio, “one of them has been hit”.
> 
> The cave system the militants were using as cover was complex, surrounded by rocks and trees and at a tricky elevation. When the bursts of fire died down, the men from 9 Para began to fan out, taking up ambush positions around the cave, sealing off exit routes.
> 
> Radios fell silent.
> 
> Then they waited. The sounds of the forest replaced the sound of gunfire; a drowsy hum of insects. At nightfall, a militant tried to break free, firing and running, and was shot down.
> 
> The 9 Para tightened their ambush positions, prepared to wait again. There was a brief downpour, drenching everything, and the night plunged into cold.
> 
> “You know what I hate the most in the world?” said G, an officer of the 9 Para, speaking to me later at their unmarked headquarters in Udhampur, just outside of Jammu (the members of the 9 Para spoke to me on conditions of anonymity). “Dew, man!”
> 
> “You hold your position, you stay perfectly still, for hours and hours. Your body hates you for it, but then it accepts it. Night falls, and it starts getting cold, and still it’s okay. But then, around 2 in the morning, the dew starts.
> 
> “We can’t wear any plastic layers because it makes noise. So the dew seeps in, it gets into everything, it goes into your bones slowly. And still you have to sit there, getting colder and colder. You can’t even sneeze. I hate dew, man!”
> 
> That night, the wind grew too, chilling the already soaked men further. Goswami and the men ate a couple of _puris_ with pickle deep in the night, a frugal dinner.
> 
> At daybreak, communicating silently with hand signals, the assault team broke cover and inched forward. They were met by a hail of fire. Bullets ricocheted off the boulders with deadly unpredictability. Then a couple of grenades flew in, bursting dangerously close, sending splinters flying. The militants too were cold, hungry, and cornered now, after four days of enduring the roughest of conditions. There was no more time left. They had been squeezed into the tightest of spots. One of them fired, and was shot back. There was a lull. One more down. Now two two-men teams got to the mouth of the cave. Goswami assumed a cover-fire position behind a rock. The advance teams now switched to non-lethal weapons, rolling in a couple of chilli grenades into the cave. It started to rain again. The two commandos outside the cave called out to the solitary militant inside. “Throw your weapons and come out, and we won’t kill you. You have no chance of coming out alive if you keep fighting.”
> 
> Weeping from the chilli grenades, cold, wet and emaciated, the last militant stepped out of the cave. It was still early in the day on 27 August.
> 
> At around the same time, hearing of the capture of the militant, the commanding officer (CO) of the 9 Para, a lean, angular man built like a marathon-runner, and with an unrelenting gaze that bores into you like a harpoon, went up to the 9 Para’s base of operations in north Kashmir. He congratulated his men, hung around to drink a cup of tea with them and left to meet the prisoner.
> 
> One of the militants killed had become a father recently back in Pakistan, the CO learnt, and so he asked the captured militant, 22-year-old Sajjad Ahmed from Muzaffargarh in south-west Pakistan and a Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operative, what would now happen to the fatherless child.
> 
> “He said ‘in jihad, no one has to take care of anybody’,” the CO told me. “When I asked him why he joined the jihad, he said that they were told that all Muslims in India live under terrible oppression and the situation is so bad that they are not allowed to do _namaz_.”
> 
> Ahmed is the third of four sons and a daughter born to landless farm labourers. When he was 10 years old, he dropped out of school to work as a farm hand. As teenagers, he and his brothers worked as labourers on construction sites, and then as a truck-driver’s help—a job notorious for being brutal and abusive. Ahmed moved to a more lucrative trade, working with a drug gang that ran heroin. In 2008, when he was 16, Ahmed was arrested for murder—he allegedly shot a man who was said to be harassing a friend’s sister. He was bailed out by the girl’s family. He fell in love with the girl, but was rejected by the family—she got married to a local vet instead. Ahmed developed a heroin habit himself, and began a life of homelessness. In 2011, he was acquitted in the murder case. A year later, Ahmed told army investigators that he met a preacher from the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a politico-religious organization under whose umbrella the LeT operates. Here was food, shelter and a way out of addiction. He volunteered for armed training and quickly moved from Daura-e-Aam, or basic combat training, to Daura-e-Suffa, or intermediate training, and finally, Daura-e-Khaas, advanced training. He tried once in 2013 to infiltrate through the line of control (LoC), but was rebuffed, he told the army. He lived on an LeT stipend. His parents and brothers did not want him to join the LeT, but were glad for the money and the prestige it brought them, Ahmed told the army. They are desperately poor, he said.
> 
> “It’s a cruel world,” the CO told me, with the weight of a deeply felt conviction. “We don’t think of militants as evil—enemies, yes, but not evil. We know the conditions they come from, and if we were put in their situation, we would probably do the same. But the world is cruel, society is hard; if women can’t step out at night in our country’s Capital without the fear of being raped...well...evil is a complicated concept.”
> 
> The CO of the 9 Para is a thoughtful man who chooses his words carefully. He exudes a sense of calm and the twitch of a man capable of hard, decisive action all at the same time. He does not wear his epaulettes, or the maroon beret that marks a soldier out as part of the Special Forces. Like his men, he shows no signs of fatigue, and no dip in intensity, though he may have been working without rest for 14 hours. He comes from a farming family, and his father is a retired infantry officer—“I was fascinated by the army right from my early childhood,” he says. He has two sons of his own, aged 8 and 3. When he was training at the National Defence Academy (NDA), he met some instructors from Special Forces, and his fascination grew deeper.
> 
> “They were seriously tough nuts, no fear at all,” he says. “I had the self-conception of being tough as well, and fearless, and I thought this is what I really want to do.” He volunteered for SF training. In 2001, he became an SF officer. Next year, Goswami joined the SF and the two met for the first time.
> 
> The CO likes to think of himself as a wolf; he took the call sign Lupus in his earlier days. “An SF guy has to be like a wolf,” he says. “A wolf lays ambushes, can pursue its prey for miles and miles over days, is tremendously resilient, and very, very loyal to its family.” A team commander christened him Adolphus, “noble wolf”. A strangely loaded name.
> 
> The 9 Para enjoy the reputation of being the toughest of India’s SF battalions—of which there are seven in all—and think of themselves, without exception, as warriors to the core. They are not commandos, they will tell you—their training is far more specialized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They go through a nine-month course at the Special Forces training centre in Nahan, Himachal Pradesh, and then have a further three months of probation—more advanced training—at whichever SF battalion they join.
> 
> The probation period has a special place of pride. More than 90% of those who volunteer for SF training drop out by the end of probation. The details of the training, as I was told over and over again, are classified.
> 
> “Let’s just say,” says G, “that you never, ever forget probation.”
> 
> Apart from specialized weapons training and tactical warfare training, the men of the 9 Para are put through a tremendous amount of physical and psychological stress.
> 
> “We are pushed till we break, that’s the aim,” says G, a lanky, lean man with the slightly awkward, forward-leaning lope of a mountaineer who talks and moves in speedy bursts. Like most of the 9 Para, he keeps a scraggly, long beard. The SF are the only ones in the army allowed this luxury; it also helps them blend in their area of operations.
> 
> “It’s about honesty,” G says. “So one of the things that we are put through during probation is sleep deprivation while training. I went without sleep for 11 days. After the fourth or fifth day, I would nod off anywhere, standing, sitting, while talking...and someone would prod me to keep me awake. Was I cold? Was I tired? Did I hurt? Was I wet? I don’t remember.
> 
> “So I ask you now, ‘are you honest?’ And you will say, ‘yes, of course’. I will ask you that again after the full deprivation.”
> 
> The 9 Para are also trained in combat free fall, or CFF, which involves learning both Halo (high altitude low opening) and Haho (high altitude high opening) parachute jumps. Or you could specialize in combat diving. They are called to fish out bodies from rivers in Kashmir after car and bus accidents with disturbing regularity. As we were talking, G responded to a call about a bus that had fallen into the Chenab. A combat diving team was sent out.
> 
> The 9 Para are in a constant state of battle. Their task is largely to prevent infiltrating militants from getting to populated areas, or setting up a base of operations inside Kashmir. “You don’t want a major gun-battle or bombs going off in a civilian area, so we work non-stop to contain the infiltrators,” the CO says. When there is intelligence of terrorist movement in the mountains and forests of north Kashmir, the 9 Para are called in (two other SF units also operate in Kashmir, the 1 Para and 4 Para). When Goswami and his colleagues captured Ahmed, it was his second operation in as many weeks.
> 
> From January this year till 1 November, there have already been 20 encounters with militants, resulting in the death of 53 insurgents, 22 army personnel, and four civilians, according to the South Asia Terrorism Portal (and this is not counting ceasefire violations along the LoC, which is a headache for the normal army). On 23 August, in an encounter on the outskirts of a village in the Handwara region, a team of 9 Para, including Goswami, gunned down three militants.
> 
> “We are either in an op (operation), or preparing for one, or coming back from one,” the CO says.
> 
> In this frenzied state, death is always a close companion.
> 
> The CO officer recalls a breathless operation from his early days, a pursuit he was leading through dense forests in heavy fog. At one point, already well into the encounter, and looking for the scattered militants, the CO slipped on a ledge and broke his fall by grabbing a bush. The militants were right under him. Before they could figure out what had happened, the CO had pulled himself up. The next second, a grenade looped up towards him and fell between his legs.
> 
> “I looked at it, and froze,” he says. “My buddy started saying, _‘phenko, phenko, phenko’_—‘throw it, throw it, throw it’—so I threw it down without thinking. It went off less than a couple of feet under me.”
> 
> “We will go to death with our eyes closed,” says an officer from Bihar who shares G’s scraggly bearded look and rapid-fire speech, over dinner one night.
> 
> “Perhaps I will go with my eyes open,” says G, and laughs.
> 
> Then they show me a video on their cellphone of a Halo dive when G’s parachute was not opening.
> 
> “My buddy on the jump was shouting at me, are you filming? Are you filming? And I’m like, **** this, is this the end?”
> 
> You could see the farm-gridded land coming up rapidly and jerkily in the footage, and, in the distance, the other jumper gliding down, parachute open. Finally, heart-stoppingly close to the ground, G’s parachute opens. You can hear him sucking in his breath in relief.
> 
> G, 26, is the son of a high-ranking officer in the army who was staunchly opposed to his son’s choice of volunteering for the SF. “We are misfits,” he says. “The army likes people who have a narrow bandwidth, you know, people who follow orders and don’t think beyond that. We have to think on our own, we have to be entirely independent. How else can you handle the fact that every week we are dropped into some vast, unknown forest area, on steep slopes, in complete darkness, and told, here, this is where you have to fight? I bet you not one of the SF officers will last in the regular army too long.”
> 
> On 2 September, just six days after Goswami had participated in the operation in the forests in Handwara, he was getting ready to go back into an operation in the same area. The army had already launched a search-and-cordon operation on the densely forested slopes near a village called Sochalwari in Kupwara after reports of militant movements. Two troops of the 9 Para—almost a 100 men—were inserted into the area just before dusk. Goswami was paired with Mahender Singh, a combat diver and mountaineer.
> 
> Goswami and Singh knew each other from their earliest days in the unit. When Goswami married in 2007, Singh had gone for the ceremony. When Goswami’s daughter was born two years later, Singh had gone to see her. Both Goswami and Singh come from villages with a military tradition. Goswami, whose father was in the Assam Rifles, a paramilitary force, came from a farming family near Nainital. His father died when he was very young, but there was little doubt that Goswami too would take to the military. Singh had joined the 9 Para a couple of years before Goswami and comes from the Jhunjhunu district of Rajasthan, a recruiting haven for the army. Singh’s elder brother Ram Niwas was in the 9 Para too, and, according to Singh, picked him up and dragged him to the army’s recruiting centre in Agra after he finished schooling.
> 
> “I had no choice, really,” Singh says.
> 
> The day of the 2 September operation, Singh says Goswami was raring to go, even after two back-to-back operations. “He had just come back from a rare holiday, so he just wanted to be in action,” Singh says.
> 
> When they got to the village, the 9 Para were shown the area where an unknown number of militants were thought to be hiding. Ahead of them was an area of very dense undergrowth, sloping steeply upwards into denser forests of _deodar_, _chinar_, spruce, birch and juniper, criss-crossed by lots of mountain streams. Even in clear daylight, anyone could hide in the forest and not be seen. The men of the 9 Para began their patient search. Darkness fell.
> 
> At around 8 at night, deep in the forest, the SF men saw and heard something moving around a 100m ahead of them.
> 
> “Movement,” the call went out on the radio.
> 
> A challenge was made by one of the SF men: “_Tham! _(Stop!)”
> 
> A burst of gunfire came their way. They fired back, fell into cover positions. Then came the wait. After a few hours, a small assault team started to inch forward. At around midnight, Singh and Goswami and four other men began a manoeuvre to cut off the likeliest exit route for the militants.
> 
> “We were seeing only through the night-vision sights of our rifles,” Singh says. “Inside a dense forest like that, it’s extremely hard to spot anything through the sights. You cannot see a man, only catch the movement really.”
> 
> The 9 Para were in the trickiest of positions, boxed into a single forested slope, all sight lines hidden by trees. Sensing that the soldiers were closing in, the militants began lobbing grenades.
> 
> “That’s when we knew we were very close to them—not more than 60m,” says Singh. “They were just a little above us in the forest.”
> 
> Two of the men in Singh’s team got hit by splinters, and one began to bleed. Goswami and Singh were immediately by their side. The militants started firing.
> 
> “So now we were seeing where the terrorists were, by the flash of their guns” Singh says. “They were to our right and to our left, just above us.”
> 
> Goswami gave cover-fire as Singh worked to extricate the two injured men. One militant was shot down by Goswami. As he was moving out, a bullet hit Singh. Goswami saw the flare of the gun and took a shot in the direction. A second militant was down. Goswami kept up a steady stream of cover-fire.
> 
> “Don’t come closer, I will extricate myself,” Singh told the others in his team over the radio.
> 
> “My upper body felt perfectly fine,” Singh says. “I was firing, I was talking on the radio, but my legs had lost all sensation. I sensed that my legs were swelling up rapidly, and my knees were moving any which way. I told Goswami that I’m rolling out.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Singh slid himself down towards safety, Goswami kept firing in short bursts in the direction of the militants, while other members of the unit moved towards him. Now a bullet hit Goswami in the right thigh. He fired back. Another bullet hit him, this one in the abdomen. He kept firing. The last militant went down. The firing stopped. It was around 3 in the morning. Within minutes, his colleagues were next to Goswami, carrying him down the mountain towards the road, where ambulances and other support vehicles and teams waited. Goswami died before they could get him to a vehicle.
> Singh, who had been carried by his colleagues for more than an hour to be evacuated, had no idea what had happened. That very day he was stabilized at the army’s field hospital in Srinagar and then airlifted to the army hospital in New Delhi.
> 
> When I met Singh, a long scar ran down his stomach. The AK-47 bullet had entered from the left of the abdomen and exited from the right, hitting his liver, kidneys and vertebrae on the way. Though he has had three operations, he has no movement in his limbs from the waist down and has started physiotherapy. He was told of Goswami’s death only much later, after all his surgeries were over.
> 
> “I wake up some times and forget he is dead,” Singh says. “I start asking for him.”
> 
> 
> Related:
> J&K: Army jawan lays down his life after killing 10 terrorists in 11 days | The Indian Express


A great and insightful article into this unit.


I found this part partoicuarly interesting:



Bang Galore said:


> “It’s a cruel world,” the CO told me, with the weight of a deeply felt conviction. “We don’t think of militants as evil—enemies, yes, but not evil. We know the conditions they come from, and if we were put in their situation, we would probably do the same.



This is exactly how I'veheard SAS and Delta/CAG members refer to their enemies. I guess as SF operators one gets a more nuanced view on the world and the nature of combat unlike the regulars who are told what to think, fight and the rest of it.


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## Levina

@Abingdonboy 
The other thread where you had tagged me was closed. So i decided to reply here.
The media is never interested in anything related to defence unless there's a major attack in their citadel. I am not surprised. And trust me, our jawans dont expect the nation to take notice of the sacrifices they make. Unfortunate but true.

RIP Goswami!!!
You were a brave soldier.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> INDIAN ARMY PARA SF
> @hkdas k bro i will post the video


I just noticed that in this pic two of the operators have AN/PEQ-2 Target Pointer/Illuminator/Aiming Light (TPIAL)attatched to the Tavor's forward P-rails- this despite the fact that the MARS has a visible and IR laser intergrated into it. Interesting.

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## Abingdonboy

@Aminroop @Koovie @MilSpec @FrenchPilot @anant_s

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## killer elite

Abingdonboy said:


> I just noticed that in this pic two of the operators have AN/PEQ-2 Target Pointer/Illuminator/Aiming Light (TPIAL)attatched to the Tavor's forward P-rails- this despite the fact that the MARS has a visible and IR laser intergrated into it. Interesting.


why army still use cold war era laser pointers?? they should use AN/PEQ-16 instead.



Bang Galore said:


> (two other SF units also operate in Kashmir, the 1 Para and 4 Para).


@Abingdonboy,
2nd para are also in J&K, right??

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## Abingdonboy

killer elite said:


> @Abingdonboy,
> 2nd para are also in J&K, right??


J&K is homebase for 9 PARA (SF)- their HQ and training centres are all in the state but they maintain foreward bases all over Kashmir for induvidual teams.

Other SF btns (1,2,4 etc) are rotated through the state mostly at a team level (the entire btn won't be deployed). It is similar in the NE- 21 PARA (SF) have their HQ there but other SF teams/btns also rotate through the theatre.


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## killer elite

Abingdonboy said:


> J&K is home base for 9 PARA (SF)- their HQ and training centres are all in the state but they maintain foreward bases all over Kashmir for induvidual teams.
> 
> Other SF btns (1,2,4 etc) are rotated through the state mostly at a team level (the entire btn won't be deployed). It is similar in the NE- 21 PARA (SF) have their HQ there but other SF teams/btns also rotate through the theatre.


so where is the HQ of other para SF?? 2nd para have HQ in Bangalore right??






The requirement for developing a new methodical 'Physical Training' regimen at INA, to improve the overall physical fitness standards and reduce sports injuries, was initiated by RAdm MD Suresh, NM, Deputy Commandant and Chief Instructor of the INA. Lt Cdr Anil Raina, an officer from the elite Special Force of Indian Navy, presently posted as Squadron Commander at INA, was accordingly tasked by the Deputy Commandant during Spring Term-15. Existing PT Regimen/ Tables of the Indian Navy, Army and the armed forces of USA, UK, Sweden and Sri Lanka, provided the parameters to formulate the design of the new PT regimen. Keeping the general physical fitness standards of cadets across terms and the need for appropriate PT programme, the Tables were designed subsequently. Feasible exercises, required to target major muscle groups, were identified and incorporated in the Tables which went through a number of iterations, refinement and revision, before they were finalized.


The task of taking the ‘scientific process’ on paper to the PT fields of INA was a most arduous task. Two teams of cadets from different terms were identified, one to undertake shooting of supporting videos for all the Tables and the other, to provide the technical support of rendering, mixing and editing the videos. In order to make access to the Tables easy to the tech savvy generation of cadets and instructors alike, the entire PT Training regimen was to be uploaded on a cloud storage, with a website and mobile application created to enable access to cadets and anybody else, even during vacations.


The entire task of designing 106 Tables along with detailed videos was completed entirely through in-house efforts of a small body of cadets, led admirably by Lt Cdr Anil Raina. Cadets had to meet all their regular training requirements during a hectic term packed with various training activities. The entire task was undertaken without any special time given to them. Their enthusiasm and dedication to prepare these Tables is in keeping with the spirit and ethos of the INA, where future naval leadership is shaped. The efforts of Lt Cdr Anil Raina and his team of cadets, are commendable and worthy of special appreciation. Their unstinting hard work shall benefit every future cadet at the INA and others who will use these Tables to enhance their physical fitness. 

About us

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs from 1.40:







@Unknowncommando I'm sure you could get seom nice shots from thins

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## killer elite

marcos during navy day celebration...

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## Abingdonboy



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## killer elite

marcos... 1:07 to 1 :19




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=649721758502558

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## killer elite



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## killer elite



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## Abingdonboy

killer elite said:


> marcos... 1:07 to 1 :19
> 
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> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=649721758502558
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> View attachment 276987
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It is always so awe-inspiring to see guys (whoever they are) parajumping into open water in full kit.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## killer elite

bro, could you make a video of marcos from here?

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## Abingdonboy



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## Unknowncommando

Marco

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## Mike_Brando

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 278258


Buddy,can you identify the pistol which is being carried by the Marcos operator in this pic??I mean,i am damn sure that it's not a Glock series because of the presence of hammer,again it's not a Browning Hi Power because of the pistol grip!!


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## Unknowncommando

Mike_Brando said:


> Buddy,can you identify the pistol which is being carried by the Marcos operator in this pic??I mean,i am damn sure that it's not a Glock series because of the presence of hammer,again it's not a Browning Hi Power because of the pistol grip!!


Dude its browning hi power pistol. Coz pistol grip is big. Glock definitely not. I thought sig p225 226 or 227 but their grip lenght in shorter than the browning. And shape of sig grip is more round than browning. So its an browning pistol. Coz i can see the lock knob with hole there. Only browning among these have that.

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## Abingdonboy

Interestingly, the SPG used an armoured Range Rover to transport the PM during his visit in Varanasi. Usually, no matter where the PM is in India the SPG will use the BMW 7 Series but in some cases they require an SUV because of the quality of the roads and such and have been using their own fleet of armoured Tata Safaris for this purpose when the PM visits places like Varanasi, Chattisgarh etc but this was the first time I have seen them use a Range Rover for the PM's fleet. I'm not sure if this is a permenant change and now they will use the Range Rover instead of the Safari when there is a need for a SUV. 














































Also note, the Range Rover (along with all SPG support vehicles in the PM's motorcade such as the Safaris for their transport and ECM vehicle) is on Delhi plates so 100% belongs to the SPG. 


@Aminroop @Star Wars @hinduguy @anant_s @Koovie

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Interestingly, the SPG used an armoured Range Rover to transport the PM during his visit in Varanasi. Usually, no matter where the PM is in India the SPG will use the BMW 7 Series but in some cases they require an SUV because of the quality of the roads and such and have been using their own fleet of armoured Tata Safaris for this purpose when the PM visits places like Varanasi, Chattisgarh etc but this was the first time I have seen them use a Range Rover for the PM's fleet. I'm not sure if this is a permenant change and now they will use the Range Rover instead of the Safari when there is a need for a SUV.
> 
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> Also note, the Range Rover (along with all SPG support vehicles in the PM's motorcade such as the Safaris for their transport and ECM vehicle) is on Delhi plates so 100% belongs to the SPG.
> 
> 
> @Aminroop @Star Wars @hinduguy @anant_s @Koovie


Ah!
Finally!!!
All this while I was wondering that why dont TATAs replace their "steel ka Dabba- tata safari" with their luxury 4WD, Range Rover, in our PM's motorcade ???
Btw did this change over happen before or after Modi's visit to Land Rover plant???
Modi to visit Jaguar Land Rover plant in Britain - Times of India

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## Abingdonboy

Aminroop said:


> Ah!
> Finally!!!
> All this while I was wondering that why dont TATAs replace their "steel ka Dabba- tata safari" with their luxury 4WD, Range Rover, in our PM's motorcade ???
> Btw did this change over happen before or after Modi's visit to Land Rover plant???
> Modi to visit Jaguar Land Rover plant in Britain - Times of India



A few answers @Aminroop

1) The SPG are the customer and thus TATA have no say in what they use to transport the PM. The Range Rover option has been open all this time, TATA would have loved the chance to sell it to them. So it is the SPG that has taken this decsion for their specific compulsions.
2) I don't think the Modi visit to JLR's plant in Solihal had anything to do with this move as the model the SPG are using is the (2010-2012) L322 not the current generation L405 so this is not PR coup by Range Rover, this was a decsion made by the SPG and they sourced their own solution.
3) The 7 series will remain the PM's main form of transports with the X5s as escort vehicles and the TATA Safari will remain in use by the SPG for support roles.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> 1) The SPG are the customer and thus TATA have no say in what they use to transport the PM. The Range Rover option has been open all this time, TATA would have loved the chance to sell it to them. So it is the SPG that has taken this decsion for their specific compulsions.


I bet they do not like luxury ...and I am not surprised- all the men in defences prefer bare minimum (in your lexicon stripped down to bones lol ). 

I am sure it was the financial constraints that stopped them from buying Range Rovers. SPG, I know, would never compromise on PM's security. 




Abingdonboy said:


> 2) I don't think the Modi visit to JLR's plant in Solihal had anything to do with this move as the model the SPG are using is the (2010-2012) L322 not the current generation L405 so this is not PR coup by Range Rover, this was a decsion made by the SPG and they sourced their own solution.


I had guessed it!
Modi visited the plant very recently while the picture was taken a few months back or so I think. 



Abingdonboy said:


> TATA Safari will remain in use by the SPG for support roles.


Oh?
That's bad news.

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## Abingdonboy

Aminroop said:


> I bet they do not like luxury ...and I am not surprised- all the men in defences prefer bare minimum (in your lexicon stripped down to bones lol ).


This is true for all other forces of course but the SPG is a very different force. They are charged with the transport and protection of the Prime Minister of India and thus will not be looking at "stripped down" products.



Aminroop said:


> I am sure it was the financial constraints that stopped them from buying Range Rovers. SPG, I know, would never compromise on PM's security.


Hmmm perhaps but I'm not convinced by this argument to be honest. The SPG has by far the largest budget-manpower ratio of all forces in the GoI. The SPG usually change on a needs basis, they had used the Ambassador until it became clear that the PM of India was at sufficent risk to require an upgrade (7 series). I don't think it is a coincidence that the most at risk PM in India's history has received a more secure SUV.



Aminroop said:


> I had guessed it!
> Modi visited the plant very recently while the picture was taken a few months back or so I think.


I'm still not so sure to be honest, the picture was taken yesterday (December 12 2015)in Varanasi and this is the first time I have seen the Range Rovers used by the SPG. I don't know why the PM visiting the JLR plant would mean the SPG then gets previous generation Range Rovers? Am I missing something?



Aminroop said:


> Oh?
> That's bad news.


Hmmm it's quite fine, the PM won't be transported in the Safaris, now they are support role only. The ECM (Electric Counter Measure vehicle/mobile Jammer) is still based on the Safari:






(In Varanasi yesterday- Safari ECM vehicle in front of the lead Range Rover and Safari escort vehicle for the SPG behind)


The Safari-based ECM is present in the PM's motorcade no matter where the PM is in India whereas the SPG uses Safaris for other support roles (escorts ans such) only outside of the NCR, within the NCR they use X5s for this role:







(^picture taken yesterday-December 12, 2015- at Palam Airport, Delhi).



I don't see any issue with this to be honest, the X5s are ideal for high speed travel on the smooth roads of the NCR, I'm not sure many other cities/towns in India would suit them and thus the Safaris will be retained for travel utside of the NCR only now the Range Rover has been added to transport the PM.

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## Death In Fire

@abingdongboy

I think since 1947 among Indian PMs Modi has the highest life risk after Indira Gandhi.


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## Abingdonboy

Death In Fire said:


> @abingdongboy
> 
> I think since 1947 among Indian PMs Modi has the highest life risk after Indira Gandhi.


This is what the security establishment (SPG, R&AW and IB) have concluded.

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## bipi@342

Abingdonboy said:


> Interestingly, the SPG used an armoured Range Rover to transport the PM during his visit in Varanasi. Usually, no matter where the PM is in India the SPG will use the BMW 7 Series but in some cases they require an SUV because of the quality of the roads and such and have been using their own fleet of armoured Tata Safaris for this purpose when the PM visits places like Varanasi, Chattisgarh etc but this was the first time I have seen them use a Range Rover for the PM's fleet. I'm not sure if this is a permenant change and now they will use the Range Rover instead of the Safari when there is a need for a SUV.
> 
> 
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> 
> Also note, the Range Rover (along with all SPG support vehicles in the PM's motorcade such as the Safaris for their transport and ECM vehicle) is on Delhi plates so 100% belongs to the SPG.
> 
> 
> @Aminroop @Star Wars @hinduguy @anant_s @Koovie



I saw Range Rover with Sonia some time back so they have this one for quite some time.

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## bipi@342




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## Abingdonboy

bipi@342 said:


> I saw Range Rover with Sonia some time back so they have this one for quite some time.
> 
> View attachment 279101





bipi@342 said:


> View attachment 279169


I'm aware the Gandhis use Range Rovers but from what I have heard these vehciles were paid for by themselves as they are private citizens. The PM does not share a pool of vehicles with anyone else, the fleet of vehicles used for the PM of India is earmarked for the PM of India alone so what the Gandhis have is an irrelevance.


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## bipi@342

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm aware the Gandhis use Range Rovers but from what I have heard these vehciles were paid for by themselves as they are private citizens


To my knowledge its from SPG and its armoured one.They also have Toyota prado I saw some time back

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## Abingdonboy

bipi@342 said:


> To my knowledge its from SPG and its armoured one.They also have Toyota prado I saw some time back


The SPG will source the vehicle and specify it according to their proffesional requirements but the Gandhis paid for them and those Range Rovers were not part of the SPG's motor pool but for the exclusive use by the Gandhis as private citizens. As such the PM of India would never use them, the SPG's fleet for the PM is kept entirely seperate from all over fleets.

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos




PARA SF

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## bloo

*Story Of Major Surendra Poonia, VSM, President’s Bodyguard, Para Special Force and Gold Medalist*

“Tumhein padhne bheja tha wahan, ya khelne” (“Did I send you there to study or to play games?”) – said Maj Poonia’s father Shri Gulab Chand, a farmer, upon hearing that his eldest son Surendra was planning to go to France from his college to participate in the Medical Olympics of 1999. Today, Shri Gulab Chand is a proud man who talks of his son’s achievements in his native village of Rajpura in Siker District, a parched village in Rajasthan, where Major Poonia was born to him and Smt. Sharda Devi on 1st of January 1977. The future athlete grew up in the hinterlands, always aspiring to create new standards and set records right from his childhood days. As a five-year-old, Major Surendra Poonia class was asked by their teacher Sh Bhoor Singh to plant one tree in their home and ensure that it survived. In one of the driest places in the country, no child, including Surendra, was able to make the plant survive. His grandmother told him, “Son! In our home no tree has ever grown. Your grandfather tried, your father tried, it always failed!” That spurred young Surender even more. Year after year, he planted the sapling, did something innovative to compensate for the problems of the previous attempt. The cycle of failure went on for 5 years, until finally a plant survived and began to grow tall – it still exists in his village today. That was the first record to be broken by young Surendra.

Major Surendra Poonia studied in his village Rajpura , attended school in Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalaya Patan ,Sikar,and “graduated from the Armed Forces Medical College, Pune – one of India’s most prestigious medical colleges” ,Pune. He was the first from his village to become an army officer and a doctor. He is the one of the best sportsmen produced by Navodaya Vidyalaya and by one of India’s premier defense academies – AFMC. In year 1999 he broke all the long distance races record held by AFMC alumni from as far back as 1968 and 1971. After obtaining his MBBS degree from AFMC, Pune, Major Poonia was commissioned in the Indian Army in Aug 2001.

















Major Surendra Poonia later volunteered for the challenging and elite volunteer force of the Indian Army- The Parachute Regiment, where he served with 2 Para Special Forces, 10 Para Special Forces and 5 Para for 5 years in the insurgency ridden area of Jammu and Kashmir. He also saw service on the world’s highest battlefield – Siachen. During a counter terrorism operation in 2005 at Bandipore forest , Kashmir, he saved the lives of 1 officer and 8 soldiers during a fierce gun-battle for which the Chief of the Indian Army decorated him with his Commendation Card. In 2003, he participated in the Indo-Mongolia Joint War Exercise at Ulan Bator, Mongolia.

Major Surendra Poonia also served with distinction in the United Nation’s Peace Keeping Mission at DRC (Congo) for one year managing international peace missions in difficult areas.

In 2008, Major Surendra Poonia was selected for the oldest and most prestigious Parachute -Cavalry regiment of India -The President’s Bodyguard (PBG), which serves directly under the Supreme Commander of the Nation. The PBG is the only Para-Cavalry regiment in the world.He served under two Presidents of India -Smt Pratibha Devi Singh Patil and Sh Pranab Mukherjee,

In 2010, Major Surendra Poonia became the first Indian sportsman to win three medals in the World Medical Games at Croatia. Subsequently, in 2011 at Las-Palmas, Spain, he won 2 gold medals, 2 silver medals and 1 bronze medal at the same meet. Year 2012 saw him further improve on his previous sporting success when he won 2 gold medals and 5 silver medals in Antalya, Turkey, becoming the first athlete to win consecutive gold medals in the Power Lifting event for 3 years in a row.

From July 2008 to Sept 2012 Dr Surendra Poonia was one of the core team member involved in implementing ‘Roshni’ – a green innovative concept, evolved at the behest of the then President of India, Smt. Pratibha Devisingh Patil, encompassing environment management and empowerment of local communities to create eco-friendly sustainable urban habitats through participation of stakeholders and convergence of partnership programmes. The programme aims to make the President’s Estate a model in green, energy efficient and zero waste model township as an example for all other habitats across India. Following the launch of Roshni, the President’s Estate became the first urban habitat to be awarded the “ISO 14001:2004” Certification, for its Environment Management System.

Major Poonia is a rare combination of international medal winning sportsman, decorated army officer, paratrooper, medical professional and fitness expert. With his 12 yrs of diverse exposure, experience, passion for excellence and multifaceted expertise to lead an Indian sports and social initiative that dreams of narrowing the gap between rural and urban India, he resigned from Armed Forces in 2012.

Today, he is a sportsperson, a fitness expert, a social worker, a youth icon and a speaker combining his experience as a soldier, a paratrooper and a medical doctor.

*Awards and Career Highlights*

On Jan 26th, 2012 ,he was awarded the ‘Vishisht Seva Medal’ (VSM) by the President of India for his ‘Distinguished Service of an Exceptional Order’ in the field of sports.Till date, he is the youngest recipient of this prestigious award.

Awarded thrice by Chief of Army Staff Commendation (COAS) – in 2006 , 2010 and 2011


Awarded ‘Most Entertaining Sportsman of the Year’ by 92.7 Big Reliance FM at Jaipur in March 2013.


Best Athlete and Best Sportsperson- AFMC


Awarded the college ‘BLUE’ (Highest sports award at the AFMC, Pune, India).


‘Best Student’ Award in Medical Officers Basic Course (Young Officer’s Course) at at Officer’s Training School AMC Center Lucknow


Served as the President’s Body Guard, with two Presidents of India.


First Indian sportsman to win consecutive gold medals in the Power Lifting event for 3 years in a row at Croatia , Spain and Turkey .


First Indian doctor to win 15 medals in any International Championship (2010-2012).

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## bipi@342

SPG undergoes advanced training in handling IEDs at Talegaon institute | The Indian Express

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs can be seen:

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs on the INS Vikramditya:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Immanuel

For Modi, SPG needs to upgrade his prime vehicle to the S-600 Maybach Pullman Guard (Our President rolls in the previous version) and a regular S-600 Maybach Guard and finally a Maybach GLS Guard for more challenging pathways. Coming soon. Nothing is quite as comfy and secure as a Merc.


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS
HERE IS THE FULL IMAGE




NSG PARKOUR TRAINING

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## Vergennes

Abingdonboy said:


> @Aminroop @Koovie @MilSpec @FrenchPilot @anant_s



Awesome video,thanks !
The operators at 2:27 seems to use the Sherpa ! Never knew India had acquired it.
Or am i wrong ?











PS ; You just got another subscriber.

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## Abingdonboy

FrenchPilot said:


> Awesome video,thanks !
> The operators at 2:27 seems to use the Sherpa ! Never knew India had acquired it.
> Or am i wrong ?


100% right, it is the Renault Sherpa:











The National Security Guards (NSG) had acuired an undisclosed number of these beasts a few years back along with the Special Protection Group (SPG)- the unit charged with protecting the Indian Prime Minister.



FrenchPilot said:


> PS ; You just got another subscriber.



Thank you very much my friend, stay tuned for more videos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO




#IndianArmy paratroopers during a training jump over the sea.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Can someone confirm it to me, if there exists 12 Para (SF) too ?


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## Abingdonboy

Every single time he returns to India from a foreign tour he does this at the gates of Palam AFB:







This is getting stupidely predictable @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Star Wars @Aminroop @FrenchPilot @hinduguy @ranjeet @Echo_419 @SR-91 @MilSpec @Unknowncommando @Skull and Bones @Bang Galore

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Every single time he returns to India from a foreign tour he does this at the gates of Palam AFB:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is getting stupidely predictable @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Star Wars @Aminroop @FrenchPilot @hinduguy @ranjeet @Echo_419 @SR-91 @MilSpec @Unknowncommando @Skull and Bones @Bang Galore


He's going to be our next Rajiv Gandhi.

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## Abingdonboy

PM Modi motorcade:















Aminroop said:


> He's going to be our next Rajiv Gandhi.


He's not helping himself avoid such a fate but to be clear, at the time of his death Rajiv Gandhi was not PM and not covered by the SPG.

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## ranjeet

Abingdonboy said:


> Every single time he returns to India from a foreign tour he does this at the gates of Palam AFB:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is getting stupidely predictable



Looks like this dude got a death wish. Although such places are not random, If you are on twitter, there is this dude Tajinder Bagga who organize a group which goes to the airport to greet Modi whenever he comes back from a foreign visit.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Rajiv Gandhi was not PM and not covered by the SPG.


True. 
What I meant is he will be an easy target.
But I am assuming SPG is prepared for such situations.

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## Abingdonboy

Aminroop said:


> But I am assuming SPG is prepared for such situations.


Well the PM isn't exactly making their job easy

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## Abingdonboy

PM visits former PM Atal Vajpayee on his birthday:

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## Abingdonboy

SPG (not the PM's close proximity team) departing Parliament:








Anyone wanna guess what's in the bags of the front two?  @Aminroop @Koovie @FrenchPilot 


+it's not bloody nuclear launch codes before anyone says it 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

NSG with a Renault Sherpa at Parliament:

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Anyone wanna guess what's in the bags of the front two?


Hmmm
I am definitely sure that it's not a nuclear football. 

It can either be a bullet proof vest or a normal briefcase that contains some important documents, communication devices etc.

Btw did you know that female SPG commando used to protect Mannohan Singh's wife? That was the first time a protectee (of SPG) used women commandos.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

J&K Marcos

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## Abingdonboy

Aminroop said:


> It can either be a bullet proof vest or a normal briefcase that contains some important documents, communication devices etc.



It's more obvious than that  think about the size of the case and what the SPG normally have but is absent in this picture.



Aminroop said:


> Btw did you know that female SPG commando used to protect Mannohan Singh's wife? That was the first time a protectee (of SPG) used women commandos.



Indeed, and now females SPG commandos even protect Modi.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, and now females SPG commandos even protect Modi


News to me.


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## Abingdonboy

Aminroop said:


> News to me.


I've posted a couple of pics in the past year to show some female SPG commandos deployed for the PM (but not in his Close Protection Team). Unfortunately I was trying to find it the other day and they have been corrupted so don't appear online anymore, I should have saved them to my local drive.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG


What has been blacked out at the bottom bro?


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## saumyasupratik

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> J&K Marcos



Look like Para SF, AFAIK MARCOS have the Mepro MORS instead of the ITL MARS.


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## Perpendicular

Looking at 
I won't be surprised if tommorow Tavors or Zittara will replace 1B1 in army. 
I hope


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## d14gtc

Dear Frenz 

Just a Query raised out of no where but thought to share with you all. I was looking for SSG or SF Pakistan Threads and found literally less than hundred pages (or perhaps i didn't find) of discussions and posts and so forth question arises about our 426 pages and further growing posts and that's too on PDF ?.... I might be totally wrong here but felt lil worried about too much of our SF / Military / defense details we share on this Front. I wonder either we are boasting our Modernization or unknowingly providing details which perhaps should be halted at least here. Feeling like we are doing a job for our enemy in free ?... Please again i might be wrong here and care to correct but on PDF ... SF Pakistan have too lil details itself than ours. Why they don't post as many details as ours doesn't mean they don't have and why they all don't participate in much now ? Shouldn't we hinder ourselves a bit even such details and posts are available on Google but sometimes somethings should or could be stopped which are free to access for those we don't want to disclose.In our countries intrust i would like to hear your suggestions.

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## Sage

d14gtc said:


> Dear Frenz
> 
> Just a Query raised out of no where but thought to share with you all. I was looking for SSG or SF Pakistan Threads and found literally less than hundred pages (or perhaps i didn't find) of discussions and posts and so forth question arises about our 426 pages and further growing posts and that's too on PDF ?.... I might be totally wrong here but felt lil worried about too much of our SF / Military / defense details we share on this Front. I wonder either we are boasting our Modernization or unknowingly providing details which perhaps should be halted at least here. Feeling like we are doing a job for our enemy in free ?... Please again i might be wrong here and care to correct but on PDF ... SF Pakistan have too lil details itself than ours. Why they don't post as many details as ours doesn't mean they don't have and why they all don't participate in much now ? Shouldn't we hinder ourselves a bit even such details and posts are available on Google but sometimes somethings should or could be stopped which are free to access for those we don't want to disclose.In our countries intrust i would like to hear your suggestions.


You are right ...SSG does not share much ...Due to the recent events of terrorism ...The army had to share few things in order to boast the morale of the citizens ...You guys are posting too much ...Thank you !

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## Abingdonboy

d14gtc said:


> Dear Frenz
> 
> Just a Query raised out of no where but thought to share with you all. I was looking for SSG or SF Pakistan Threads and found literally less than hundred pages (or perhaps i didn't find) of discussions and posts and so forth question arises about our 426 pages and further growing posts and that's too on PDF ?.... I might be totally wrong here but felt lil worried about too much of our SF / Military / defense details we share on this Front. I wonder either we are boasting our Modernization or unknowingly providing details which perhaps should be halted at least here. Feeling like we are doing a job for our enemy in free ?... Please again i might be wrong here and care to correct but on PDF ... SF Pakistan have too lil details itself than ours. Why they don't post as many details as ours doesn't mean they don't have and why they all don't participate in much now ? Shouldn't we hinder ourselves a bit even such details and posts are available on Google but sometimes somethings should or could be stopped which are free to access for those we don't want to disclose.In our countries intrust i would like to hear your suggestions.


As someone who monitors both sections I would say your fears are misplaced my friend. The 400 vs 100 pages is not the best indicator of how much is being divulged, in fact much of these 400 pages are discussion and speculation by defence enthusiasts because there is so little concrete information available. I don't want to make this into a India vs Pakistan thread, there is enough of those around here, but talking specifically- when is the last time any of India's SFs took a camera crew with them on a live operation? I can't think of a single time whilst this has happened a few times with the SSG. Think about it, there is signifcant SF presence in JK but you almost never hear about it or what they are doing, on the other hand the deployment and operations of the SSG in SWAT and the rest of Pakistan's internal security operations is well documented.

Indian armed forces are not allowed to use Facebook or any other social media sites to post pictures of themselves in uniform or discuss their deployments, this is a rule strictly enforced internally and externally and it clearly is more apparent for SFs, on th eother hand there are numerous social media accounts where Pakistani Special Forces members are posting- even from the frontlines. This would end a career in the Indian armed forces.


There is not a huge amount of substance too these 400 off pages, nothing even remotely classified has been shared because no one even knows of such things outside of their community. Indian SF fully live up to the universal title "silent professionals" and the distinct absence of such harmful details on here or anywhere online is testament to this.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> As someone who monitors both sections I would say your fears are misplaced my friend. The 400 vs 100 pages is not the best indicator of how much is being divulged, in fact much of these 400 pages are discussion and speculation by defence enthusiasts because there is so little concrete information available. I don't want to make this into a India vs Pakistan thread, there is enough of those around here, but talking specifically- when is the last time any of India's SFs took a camera crew with them on a live operation? I can't think of a single time whilst this has happened a few times with the SSG. Think about it, there is signifcant SF presence in JK but you almost never hear about it or what they are doing, on the other hand the deployment and operations of the SSG in SWAT and the rest of Pakistan's internal security operations is well documented.
> 
> There is not a huge amount of substance too these 400 off pages, nothing even remotely classified has been shared because no one even knows of such things outside of their community. Indian SF fully live up to the universal title "silent professionals" and the distinct absence of such harmful details on here or anywhere online is testament to this.




The only live operation of Para SF I ever saw was the attack in Uri camp during J&K elections. Rest assured our SF are maintaining high discretion.


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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> The only live operation of Para SF I ever saw was the attack in Uri camp during J&K elections. Rest assured our SF are maintaining high discretion.


That is different my friend, I was talking about embedded camera crews going on live operations with Indian SF units- this has never happened. The filming of SF teams in operations in JK cannot be avoided although there are now strict restrictions by the GoI on broadcasting operations in real time.


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## Brahmaputra Mail

saumyasupratik said:


> Look like Para SF, AFAIK MARCOS have the Mepro MORS instead of the ITL MARS.


I may be wrong.



Abingdonboy said:


> That is different my friend, I was talking about embedded camera crews going on live operations with Indian SF units- this has never happened. The filming of SF teams in operations in JK cannot be avoided although there are now strict restrictions by the GoI on broadcasting operations in real time.



I doubt they deem it necessary.


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Indian Patriot said:


> Russian SF are using Indian INSAS?
> 
> 
> 
> So INSAS is not a world class weapon according to you?




LOl Russian special force using your Insas , even your police Urges the government to replace there insas riffles


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## Brahmaputra Mail

NSG at 0:20

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> NSG at 0:20


Nice, any more vids of this?


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> Nice, any more vids of this?


Nah. Just this.






Para SF





Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> What has been blacked out at the bottom bro?


Some shitty art by fanboy bro





NSG commando

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## Abingdonboy

Garuds deployed for force protection:

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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Garuds deployed for force protection:




TATA Xenon is ordered by IAF.


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## noksss



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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


>


@noksss could you give the link to this video please bro?



+That Sherpa is such a beast @Vauban

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## Vergennes

Abingdonboy said:


> @noksss could you give the link to this video please bro?
> 
> 
> 
> +That Sherpa is such a beast @Vauban



After some quick research,i found that a dozen of these vehicles were delivered to the Indian special forces.
-
The negotiations *lasted at least 5 years *! The Indians were seeking vehicles that would perfectly respond to their needs. 

FOB – Forces Operations BlogSherpa Light pour les forces spéciales indiennes - FOB - Forces Operations Blog
-
If you have more pictures of this vehicle in Indian's hands,feel free to post them !!

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## Abingdonboy

Vauban said:


> After some quick research,i found that a dozen of these vehicles were delivered to the Indian special forces.
> -
> The negotiations *lasted at least 5 years *! The Indians were seeking vehicles that would perfectly respond to their needs.
> 
> FOB – Forces Operations BlogSherpa Light pour les forces spéciales indiennes - FOB - Forces Operations Blog
> -
> If you have more pictures of this vehicle in Indian's hands,feel free to post them !!


That information is a little outdated IMHO, the dozen they are talking about relates to orders from the NSG whilst the SPG (the unit that protects the Prime Minister) has also made an order for these vehicles recently for their Counter Assualt Teams (CAT) that were delivered in 2014 I beleive. Addtionally now the NSG has had its budget increased subsantially and they are de-centralised to local "hubs" I think there will likely be more orders placed by the NSG especially considering recent global events.

The 5 year figure seems to be from the time the NSG first showed interest in the Sherpa to the time they placed orders, I doubt negotiations lasted that long- this isn't the MMRCA 


+Got to respect Renault's discretion in this matter

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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> @noksss could you give the link to this video please bro?
> 
> 
> 
> +That Sherpa is such a beast @Vauban



I took it from Facebook Bro will try to find the video for you

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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> I took it from Facebook Bro will try to find the video for you


Thank you very much bro!


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## Abingdonboy

@Vauban Sherpa can be seen from 0:09

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## Abingdonboy

Drill in Delhi:
























^ these guys aren't "Gear wh*res", they are clearly drilling intensively, look at the state of that barrel!










Force commander:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

Snipers:









EOD unit:














@Vauban you can just see a Sherpa in the background there

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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos

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## Brahmaputra Mail

I was under the impression that only 21 Para SF was operating in North-East. I was wrong !! There are other units operating too.

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> I was under the impression that only 21 Para SF was operating in North-East. I was wrong !! There are other units operating too.


21 PARA (SF) have their battalion HQ in the NE like 9 PARA (SF) have their's in JK but both Btns are joined by other SF teams from other Btns who rotate through both areas (NE and JK).


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> 21 PARA (SF) have their battalion HQ in the NE like 9 PARA (SF) have their's in JK but both Btns are joined by other SF teams from other Btns who rotate through both areas (NE and JK).


I think even 11 Para SF has their Battalion HQ in NE, besides 21 Para SF.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos from chennai regional hub during mock drill in chennai metro

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 283771
> View attachment 283772
> View attachment 283773
> View attachment 283774
> 
> NSG commandos from chennai regional hub during mock drill in chennai metro



I only hope some day they will acquire FAST Helmets.

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## Unknowncommando

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> I only hope some day they will acquire FAST Helmets.


Yes but i think for CQB purpose ACH is better as it gives more protection. Fast helmets should be used where u have to carry more ammo and weapons. For jungle warfare and for marine ops fast helmets are suitable. But still i think they should be inducted in THE NSG. As they are lightweight it will be advantage for any soldier.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos

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## K M Cariappa

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 284418
> View attachment 284419
> View attachment 284420
> View attachment 284421
> View attachment 284422
> View attachment 284423
> View attachment 284424
> 
> NSG commandos


Looks like DLF Emporio


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## Trumpcard

The drill took place in dlf promenade


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## Unknowncommando

NSG in action. Pathankot

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## mkb95

garuds

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS WHILE TRAVELING FROM DELHI TO PATHANKOT IN C17 GLOBEMASTER
















Nsg commandos

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


I am terrible with identifying sniper rifles, can anyone identify it?

@Vauban 


@MilSpec whatever it is they aren't using the PSG-1 anymore and that is certainly going to have more "reach" than the SIG-550s the NSG's snipers also sport.

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## Vergennes

Abingdonboy said:


> I am terrible with identifying sniper rifles, can anyone identify it?
> 
> @Vauban
> 
> 
> @MilSpec whatever it is they aren't using the PSG-1 anymore and that is certainly going to have more "reach" than the SIG-550s the NSG's snipers also sport.



Sorry for the late answer sir,i didn't get notification for your tag.

This sniper rifle is most likely an M98B.

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## mkb95

Vauban said:


> Sorry for the late answer sir,i didn't get notification for your tag.
> 
> This sniper rifle is most likely an M98B.


here is promotional video

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## AbRaj

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 285122
> View attachment 285123
> View attachment 285124
> 
> View attachment 285302
> 
> 
> NSG in action. Pathankot


Maruti gypsy??? Seriously?? 
All it takes is one grenade to blow whole thing up
Why not armoured vehicle??


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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 285290
> 
> NSG COMMANDOS WHILE TRAVELING FROM DELHI TO PATHANKOT IN C17 GLOBEMASTER


Franchi SPAS-15.


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## Water Car Engineer

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 285122
> View attachment 285123
> View attachment 285124
> 
> View attachment 285302
> 
> 
> NSG in action. Pathankot



I seen them being transported in this and some crappy small civilian looking bus!! Wtf? It was the must pitiful looking thing I've seen. Even some of the army personal were using MPVs.


















I mean, there are local armored conversions of trucks!! Several MPVs too, not to mention the several imports.

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## ANPP

Water Car Engineer said:


> I seen them being transported in this and some crappy small civilian looking bus!! Wtf? It was the must pitiful looking thing I've seen. Even some of the army personal were using MPVs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, there are local armored conversions of trucks!! Several MPVs too, not to mention the several imports.




Vehicle named Takshak, is an armoured variant of trucks used by army. Mostly used as an field ambulance.


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## mkb95



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## Bornubus

Para SF

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## d14gtc

Abingdonboy said:


> As someone who monitors both sections I would say your fears are misplaced my friend. The 400 vs 100 pages is not the best indicator of how much is being divulged, in fact much of these 400 pages are discussion and speculation by defence enthusiasts because there is so little concrete information available. I don't want to make this into a India vs Pakistan thread, there is enough of those around here, but talking specifically- when is the last time any of India's SFs took a camera crew with them on a live operation? I can't think of a single time whilst this has happened a few times with the SSG. Think about it, there is signifcant SF presence in JK but you almost never hear about it or what they are doing, on the other hand the deployment and operations of the SSG in SWAT and the rest of Pakistan's internal security operations is well documented.
> 
> Indian armed forces are not allowed to use Facebook or any other social media sites to post pictures of themselves in uniform or discuss their deployments, this is a rule strictly enforced internally and externally and it clearly is more apparent for SFs, on th eother hand there are numerous social media accounts where Pakistani Special Forces members are posting- even from the frontlines. This would end a career in the Indian armed forces.
> 
> 
> There is not a huge amount of substance too these 400 off pages, nothing even remotely classified has been shared because no one even knows of such things outside of their community. Indian SF fully live up to the universal title "silent professionals" and the distinct absence of such harmful details on here or anywhere online is testament to this.


 
Yes you are right at your own end but you didn't get ma point. I was not talking anything about Live Assaults or Actions done by SF in/ out or anywhere. As i know our SF fraternity don't allow much or very less info to takeout.But my point was regarding our modernization intakes, Gadgets and futuristic details and discussions done here on this open (alien) forum.As i mentioned i felt it to share my concern so did I.Rest only can expect members to take decisions at their own perceptions that how much and what they want to or have to share..... Jai Hind.


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## Abingdonboy

A Garud commander with Modi:

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

Today I was watching NatGeo and there was this program where some researchers went to Africa to study the behavior of Hyenas in a aluminum framed glass bubble- This group has an Infrared Camera and UV cameras with excellent resolution and what I saw blew me away- One of their camera the guy using it called "salex merlin" (I am not sure of exact name) was very HD and the most amazing part It could pick up even the blood vessels on certain parts like elephant ears from several Km away-

It would never loose the animals while they were running around in foliage and bushes the man using it was former navy seals and he admitted that of several IR cameras he had used in his service he had not come across such high quality IR camera- I have seen IR footage of Apache and C-130- It was 100 times better than that- I hope some one in forces take notice and gets one for themselves would be very helpful in tracking terrorists in dense foliage- specially places like Keran sector in Kashmir-

I am sure If some work is done on that camera It could very well outline internal organs in denser parts of animal/human body- from several km away-

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## Agent_47

Modi in Pathankot AFB.
SPG is scanning for threats in every direction !

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## mkb95

hiding level - marcos




the soldier that was hiding





pic of NSG operative with MP5A3 and X26 Taser gun attached to it

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## danish_vij



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## Abingdonboy



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## SRP

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/686529477459877888

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## Abingdonboy



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## Bornubus




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## mkb95

@*Abingdonboy*
*do we anything similar to hell week like in buds training of navy seals?*

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## bloo

*Revealed: Siachen*
*on Republic day on Discovery Channel. *

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## mkb95

bloo said:


> *Revealed: Siachen*
> *on Republic day on Discovery Channel. *


will it air only in india or intl. level?


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF in siachen
Dadhiwala fauji in action
Thanks to hkdas for the ss




NSG

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> will it air only in india or intl. level?


Both bro.


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## The Huskar

E


Abingdonboy said:


>


Which sniper is that?


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## Abingdonboy

The Huskar said:


> E
> 
> Which sniper is that?


Thanks to @Vauban I know it is the M98B

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## The Huskar

Abingdonboy said:


> Thanks to @Vauban I know it is the M98B


Are they used by Indian Armed Forces or exclusively by NSG?


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## saumyasupratik

The Huskar said:


> Are they used by Indian Armed Forces or exclusively by NSG?



Exclusively by the NSG as of this moment. Probably as a longer range complement to the PSG-1 and SSG3000.


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## The Huskar

saumyasupratik said:


> Exclusively by the NSG as of this moment. Probably as a longer range complement to the PSG-1 and SSG3000.


Is there any news regarding the purchase of Sako TRG rifles by Indian Army?
I read about it in an article few years back about now it is totally absent in any media.


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## SRP



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## SRP

NSG and Garuda Commandos Conduct Mock Drill in Bengaluru -The New Indian Express

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## Water Car Engineer

The soldier on the left is using a Excalibur.

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## Water Car Engineer

Then


























Now

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> The soldier on the left is using a Excalibur.


Bangalore's Garud commando force (part of Karnataka's Internal Security Division, ISD)

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## rockstarIN

Abingdonboy said:


> Bangalore's Garud commando force (part of Karnataka's Internal Security Division, ISD)


Not the IAF Garud?


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## Abingdonboy

rockstarIN said:


> Not the IAF Garud?


Nope. Seperate units but same/similar name (confusing I know).

This exercise was solely between the NSG (Eastern hub) and the local police/emergency response units.


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## mkb95

paras??


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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> paras??


10th PARA (SF) "Desert Scorpians"

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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> 10th PARA (SF) "Desert Scorpians"


they have certainly seen their share of upgrades








notice the old bren lmg which has been replaced.

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> they have certainly seen their share of upgrades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> notice the old bren lmg which has been replaced.


But sadly they are still using the Gypsy


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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> But sadly they are still using the Gypsy


hers few vehicle of such type used by other sf
navy seal-Desert Patrol Vehicle




british sas-saker lsv




we should replace gypsy with something like these.


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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> hers few vehicle of such type used by other sf
> navy seal-Desert Patrol Vehicle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> british sas-saker lsv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we should replace gypsy with something like these.


These are old school, now they use:












UK Military (and SAS) use the Jackel:







^ I think the Australian SASR have bought this vehicle too.


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## mkb95

from an army ad

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF) combat parajump into open water:







SF sniper team in Siachin:

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## Abingdonboy

Old(ish) pic of SPG's CAT, here deployed during I-Day at Red Fort:

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## SRP



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## Levina

Any cool para SF pics?
I want to make it my DP.
I tried searching the net but many of the Indian sites are banned here. 

@Abingdonboy


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## Abingdonboy

@Levina






















Late Major Mohit Sharma 1 PARA (SF):





Mid/early 00s in the valley:






One of my favourites though:






Clearance Ops in Mohra (JK)- the drama in this picture is more than apparent and the video of this Op is even cooler, you seem some damn fine soldiering in action.

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> @Levina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Late Major Mohit Sharma 1 PARA (SF):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mid/early 00s in the valley:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of my favourites though:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clearance Ops in Mohra (JK)- the drama in this picture is more than apparent and the video of this Op is even cooler, you seem some damn fine soldiering in action.


thanks for the pics and yes i had watched the uri army camp attack video.
I had read your convo with ghost regarding MPVs and PKM. Ghost made some interesting points
Btw i read somewhere that paraSF uses captured PKM. seriously?
And... why does ghost call you sir when you're a student and hes a commando? just curious lol

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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> I had read your convo with ghost regarding MPVs and PKM. Ghost made some interesting points


I can't place that conversation exactly, your powers of recall is clearly far superior to mine 


Levina said:


> Btw i read somewhere that paraSF uses captured PKM. seriously?


It has happened in the past but it isn't exactly a SOP



Levina said:


> And... why does ghost call you sir when you're a student and hes a commando? just curious lol


You'll have to ask him that, I couldn't tell you why he does that

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> can't place that conversation exactly, your powers of recall is clearly far superior to mine


I don't think I will be allowed to post a link to it here. But I will work on it. Lol 


Abingdonboy said:


> You'll have to ask him that, I couldn't tell you why he does that


Gosh!
I don't like being kept curious. 
But I really liked the discussion. 
He had made some posts regarding how we should improve our MPVs.
And also about sts mounted scope in front of mars sight. 
Do you remember it now?

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## bloo

Levina said:


> Any cool para SF pics?
> I want to make it my DP.
> I tried searching the net but many of the Indian sites are banned here.
> 
> @Abingdonboy

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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> I don't think I will be allowed to post a link to it here. But I will work on it. Lol
> 
> Gosh!
> I don't like being kept curious.
> But I really liked the discussion.
> He had made some posts regarding how we should improve our MPVs.
> And also about sts mounted scope in front of mars sight.
> Do you remember it now?


Still blanking 

But this conversation definetly sounds interesting


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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Still blanking
> 
> But this conversation definetly sounds interesting


Try posting this in Google ( MPV PKM camp attack abindonboy)

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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> Try posting this in Google ( defence forum india MPV PKM camp attack abindonboy)


I remember now 

+PARA (SF) with STS on their Tavors:







(I'm still certain those "STS" were actually just flashlights in those pictures ).

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## Levina

bloo said:


> View attachment 287783
> View attachment 287784
> View attachment 287785
> View attachment 287786
> View attachment 287787
> View attachment 287788
> View attachment 287789
> View attachment 287790


Thanks

I liked the 2nd pic. 

The last one belongs to MARCOS. Read their motto- the few the fearless. 



Abingdonboy said:


> I remember now
> 
> +PARA (SF) with STS on their Tavors:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I'm still certain those "STS" were actually just flashlights in those pictures ).



That's him...that's him.
My friend!!! It's him. 
Hehehe
I guess he features in all para SF's ads now.


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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> Thanks
> 
> I liked the 2nd pic.
> 
> The last one belongs to MARCOS. Read their motto- the few the fearless.


1st and 6th are Garuds, 2nd, 3rd and 5th are NSG, 4th is CRPF CoBRA, 7th is BSF and 8th, as you said, is MARCOS. 



Levina said:


> That's him...that's him.
> My friend!!! It's him.
> Hehehe
> I guess he features in all para SF's ads now.



Haha, posterboy! I wonder how much cribbing he gets from within his team/batt for this

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## mkb95



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## Abingdonboy

Vajra Prahar begins tommorow (18th January) with 1st SFG of the US and an ,as of yet unconfirmed, SF Btn of the IA (probably a mix of Btns as in the past).


Hoping for some pics but the last few editions have yeiled almost none.

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## SRP

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/689057208756088833

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## Abingdonboy

*Lolab*

_*Lolab valley, Kupwara, Kashmir, November 1998
*_

It always has amazed me how such a bewitchingly beautiful, idyllic narrow valley floor in the north western edge of Kashmir evokes the kind of contrasting responses from either end of the spectrum of men who were sworn to achieve dominance. One set, bound by both the written and unwritten rules of combat that a typical, professional Army respects. The other, bound if at all, only by the religious and ideological fanaticism that defines their existence. I am not sure about the militants, but within our circuit, LOLAB was an acronym. It stood for Land Of Love And Beauty. The sweetest apples grew here, the prettiest girls lived here, the fiercest militants operate here. Frankly, I think it was as much a matter of ego at the functional level both for the Special Forces teams and the militants as it was a matter of operational and strategic criticality for the brass on either side to retain control over the Lolab valley. After all, this was the staging area of choice for the freshly inducted militants infiltrated from Pakistan, before they are moved down into the Kashmir bowl.


We had commenced climbing up the hill feature between Sogam and Chandigam villages in the Lolab valley in Kashmir at about 3 AM that morning. I was eager to be well within the depths of the forest above the middle track that typically runs along all the hill features in the area before the first rays of the morning sun started to find its way to the valley floor. Team Bravo had commenced their climb around midnight, up three clicks to the north. Their brief was to secure the top of the feature before first light, by the time we were in line with the middle track. 


We had been climbing steadily for the last 4 hours. Laxman was in the lead, with Satte Singh backing him up as scout 2. Between the two of them, they had built up a fearsome, awe inspiring reputation of being the best in the business. And when you consider that their business was being the lead scouts for Special Forces teams in combat, that reputation is something that the uniformed fraternity revers. Together, they had refined the practice of their skill into an art form. It was nowhere more evident to me as a young Captain, as they led the way for the squad I was entrusted command with. Not a twig broke, nor was the crunch of a single dried leaf audible as they effortlessly negotiated the steep incline of the forest floor in North West Kashmir, that early autumn morning. Laxman and Satte going about their business with clinical perfection, pausing here to pick up the slightest sound wafting in through the forest, crouching there at the first hint of the possibility of ‘company’. 


The rest of the 5 man squad were also combat hardened veterans. The folding stock of their VZ-58, the standard issue, Checkoslovakian origin weapon bore rough, crude hand made notches – indicative of the number of ‘kills’ claimed by each of them. Notches, that periodically and much to their anguish would be forcibly painted over by the unit armourer, in preparation for the annual weapon inspection. The inspection done, the guys would carve those notches right back on. There never was a requirement for supervision of this activity by their mates. They zealously live by their code of honour – never claim a kill that is not yours. 


It happened in a flash. The transition from God’s paradise to Satan’s hell was as rapid as planned ambushes get; furious and violent. Only, it sucks to be at the receiving end of that metaphoric transition. BIG time! The first burst of fire opened up from the left flank, about 75 mtrs uphill from the middle track. Laxman Singh was the first to react, swinging his VZ-58 effortlessly to the left and up, in a controlled sweep and letting loose a long but controlled burst, in classic ‘first response’ fashion. The rest of us did what is almost second nature to us; drop, down, crawl – executing the twin functions of identifying the best cover possible and watching out to identify the source of our pain, the unmistakable angry flash of the barrel of the AK-47, the weapon of choice with the militants. I hadn’t quite heard it (or if I did, it hadn’t registered) but I was confident Mukesh, right behind me had radioed the crisp three words that would indicate to our Company Operating Base that we were in business - “Contact, Standby, Out”. In seconds, the air was thick with the familiar smell of gunpowder, or so they claimed, much later when we were back in the company operating base. For me however, the peripheral senses weren’t quite working at their most efficient that morning. It usually doesn’t, I later realized, when one is a ‘live-combat virgin’. The first exposure to live combat, has a nasty practice of inevitably dulling up the senses, no matter how many hours of live firing one has actually carried out earlier at the practice ranges. This was the real thing. What every Special Forces man worth his salt hoped, prayed and lived for. A taste of the action. The metamorphosis from boy to man. 


What I did remember however, is the rather dull, low whine that effectively degraded my sense of hearing. The low frequency, dull irritable whine, caused by the bullet that had quite evidently passed within inches of my right ear before it thudded into the thick, fallen deodhar tree trunk on the forest floor, behind me. Irritating as the whine was, it didn’t stop me from focusing on returning fire. I was therefore, surprised when Satte gruffly caught hold of the collar of my camouflage dungarees and part dragged, part flipped me over and behind the tree trunk. It took me 30 seconds to figure out why. My body, in prone position was exposed to fire from the flank. To execute that maneuver, Satte had to expose himself from cover, briefly. Looking back, I wonder if it even struck him that he was putting himself in grave danger by executing that maneuver. I suspect he didn’t. This was purely reflex action. When you see your buddy in danger, you pull him in. Screw everything else.
_*
Lolab
*_
@Levina @PARIKRAMA @SRP @Vauban @Parul @acetophenol @SpArK @nair @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @kbd-raaf @mkb95 @Spectre @Bang Galore @Water Car Engineer @Kinetic @ayesha.a @Roybot @RoYaL~GuJJaR @IndoUS 
@Star Wars @hinduguy @ranjeet @scorpionx @AMCA @XiNiX

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> ., I wonder if it even struck him that he was putting himself in grave danger by executing that maneuver. I suspect he didn’t. This was purely reflex action.*When you see your buddy in danger, you pull him in. *Screw everything else


Reminds me of the movie "The lone survivor".



Abingdonboy said:


> Haha, posterboy! I wonder how much cribbing he gets from within his team/batt for this


But haven't these ads put him at the risk of being exposed?


----------



## Brahmaputra Mail

Surrender ceremony of UTLA cadres

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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> But haven't these ads put him at the risk of being exposed?


I'm sure some consideration has been given to that (SFs are nomrally not ones to push to be in front of the camera). Having his identity as an SF operator be known isn't inherently all that dangerous, to start revealing what deployments he had been on WOULD be hence no such details have been released. Have the identities of the NSG or MARCOs operators involved in 26/11 been revealed? What about the PARA (SF) operators involved in the Mynamar ops?

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> ave the identities of the NSG or MARCOs operators involved in 26/11 been revealed? What about the PARA (SF) operators involved in the Mynamar ops?



Not yet. I am sure.
What I had told you was my conclusion based on the posting of few. 
Anyways, in the ad they haven't used his full name

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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> Not yet. I am sure.
> What I had told you was my conclusion based on the posting of few.
> Anyways, in the ad they haven't used his full name


@Levina, my beleif is you will NEVER know the names of 99.99% of those involved in any of the above operations. Look at all the high profile operations in Indian SF history- Op Cactus, Op Bluestar, Op Khukri, Op Black Tornado, Op peace (if the Mynamar Op really was called that)- how many SF operators can you name who were involved in any of these? I can't think of a single one (other than few NSG post-26/11 but their revelations are rather unconnected to the operation and more to do with the careers of the induviduals themselves). These are thousands of people all told but nothing to be seen. And bear in mind that these are just the operations we know of- there will be 1000s of more that we don't. 

Contrast this with the US/UK where it seems obligatroy for every major major (highly publicised) SF operation (succesful and oterhwise) to be followed by scores of books from the induviduals involed (Bravo Two Zero, Operation Neptune Spear, Operation Red Wings, Black Hawk Down, Operation Iraqi Freedom etc) and often made into movies (Bravo Two Zero, Captain Phillips, Black Hawk Down, Zero Dark Thirty etc etc). 

And I could name you scores and scores of those involved who have subsequently identified themselves in taking part in such operations. It's crazy to think that we know who killed OBL- in fact there are 2 different DEVGRU members who claim that and a third has written a book on the raid as well as one of the claimed shooters. India's equivalent (Special Group) has not a SINGLE living member who has revealed themselves as part of that unit, no offical has even confirmed they exist. 


Indian SF still hold themselves to the "silent proffesionals" ideal.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG drill in Chennai

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## mkb95

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 288398
> View attachment 288399
> View attachment 288400
> 
> NSG drill in Chennai


they've been doing lots of drills lately.


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## mkb95

can anybody tell me what veichle are these? foreign on indian?


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## Water Car Engineer

mkb95 said:


> can anybody tell me what veichle are these? foreign on indian?




It's from a Chinese company. Eastwind EQ2050.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> @Levina, my beleif is you will NEVER know the names of 99.99% of those involved in any of the above operations. Look at all the high profile operations in Indian SF history- Op Cactus, Op Bluestar, Op Khukri, Op Black Tornado, Op peace (if the Mynamar Op really was called that)- how many SF operators can you name who were involved in any of these? I can't think of a single one (other than few NSG post-26/11 but their revelations are rather unconnected to the operation and more to do with the careers of the induviduals themselves). These are thousands of people all told but nothing to be seen. And bear in mind that these are just the operations we know of- there will be 1000s of more that we don't.
> 
> Contrast this with the US/UK where it seems obligatroy for every major major (highly publicised) SF operation (succesful and oterhwise) to be followed by scores of books from the induviduals involed (Bravo Two Zero, Operation Neptune Spear, Operation Red Wings, Black Hawk Down, Operation Iraqi Freedom etc) and often made into movies (Bravo Two Zero, Captain Phillips, Black Hawk Down, Zero Dark Thirty etc etc).
> 
> And I could name you scores and scores of those involved who have subsequently identified themselves in taking part in such operations. It's crazy to think that we know who killed OBL- in fact there are 2 different DEVGRU members who claim that and a third has written a book on the raid as well as one of the claimed shooters. India's equivalent (Special Group) has not a SINGLE living member who has revealed themselves as part of that unit, no offical has even confirmed they exist.
> 
> 
> Indian SF still hold themselves to the "silent proffesionals" ideal.




To be honest it took me 2 minutes of google search in order to figure out the OIC of the operation in Myanmar. Courtesy- ADGPI


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Anyways, guys I just realised how easy it is to identify our existing SF bases in internet. I dunno if army knows it well.


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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## Unknowncommando

Marco old pic






















Garuds

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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando as always great pics bro!

But can you be sure to blur out the faces of the Garuds? I think the recent Pathankot attack has highlighted the strategic sifgnificacne of these guys and the enemy is very cunning.

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## ranjeet

Mock drill by Delhi Police and NSG in Khan Market, New Delhi


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/690172629643202560
Twitter Video

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## Capt.Popeye

Water Car Engineer said:


> It's from a Chinese company. Eastwind EQ2050.



Oh, then its that Humvee clone, not the Land Rover clone called Land Bund or something.


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## mkb95

A great video of Vajra Prahar 2011, when soldiers from Indian Army 4th Para and US Army 1st Special Forces did joint exercises at Yakima Training center in Washington, USA.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1072372652826184

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## Brahmaputra Mail

@Abingdonboy Hey ! Can you tell me how much of our SF bases are classified ? Because I just realised it's easy to figure it out. I'm wondering if this should be reported to Army.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG drill khan market Delhi

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## Unknowncommando

Nsg khan market

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## bloo

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando

Are there any pics of Marcos out there with diver propulsion systems, rebreathers and the like?


US NAVY SEALS


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## Unknowncommando

@bloo no bro it is hard to find such pic
@Abingdonboy why is the thread indian emergency services closed?

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## bloo

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 289028
> View attachment 289030
> View attachment 289031
> 
> @bloo no bro it is hard to find such pic


 
Thanks anyways.

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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando it's interesting to note that these operators aren't the NSG's Main CT task force (as was the case in the drills on December 29 and who took part in the Pathankot operations), these are secondary teams. Maybe they are foreward deployed elsewhere or the NSG wants to give all its teams simulated exposure ahead of R-Day.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG DRILL IN KHAN MARKET

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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Levina

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA 
Spot the blunder


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## PARIKRAMA

@Levina why there are two anurags?

And here are the details
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=135802

*Awardees*


*Ashok Chakra*


Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami*(Posthumous)*, 9 PARA (Special Force)


*Kirti Chakra*


Subedar Mahendra Singh, Sena Medal, 9 PARA (Special Force)

Sepoy Jagdish Chand *(Posthumous)*, 546 DSC Platoon


*Shaurya Chakra*


Colonel Santosh Yashwant Mahadik (*Posthumous)*, Sena Medal, 41 Rashtriya Rifle (PARA)

Major Praphul Kumar Bhardwaj, 12 PARA (Special Force)

Major Anurag Kumar, 9 PARA (Special Force)

Major Sandip Yadav, 55 Rashtriya Rifle (Armed)

Lieutenant Harjinder Singh, 3 KUMAON

Naik Satish Kumar *(Posthumous),* 21Rashtriya Rifle (Guards)

Naik Kheem Singh Mehra, 21 KUMAON

Sepoy Dharma Ram *(Posthumous),* 1Rashtriya Rifle (MAHAR) 




*LANCE NAIK MOHAN NATH GOSWAMI, ASHOK CHAKRA, (POSTHUMOUS)*

*



*
On the intervening night of 02/03 September 2015 *Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami* was part of an ambush in Haphruda forest at Kupwara district of Jammu & Kashmir. At about 2015hrs, there was a fierce encounter with four terrorists wherein two of his comrades were injured and pinned down. Lance Naik Mohan along with his buddy dashed forward to rescue their injured colleagues, knowing well the risks to their own lives. He first assisted in eliminating one terrorist. Sensing grave danger to three of his wounded colleagues, Lance Naik Mohan with utter disregard to his own personal safety, charged at the remaining terrorists drawing intense fire from them. He was hit in the thigh. Unmindful, he closed in and eliminated one terrorist, injured another and was again shot in the abdomen. Undeterred by his injuries, he hurled himself on the last terrorist and killed him at point blank range before succumbing to his wounds. Lance Naik Mohan not only killed two terrorists, but also assisted in neutralizing the other two and save the lives of three of his wounded colleagues.


Thus, Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami exhibited most conspicuous gallantry in personally eliminating two terrorists and assisting in evacuation of his wounded colleagues and made supreme sacrifice in the highest traditions of the Indian Army. Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami is awarded “*ASHOK CHAKRA (POSTHUMOUS)”.*







*SUBEDAR MAHENDRA SINGH, SENA MEDAL*
Subedar Mahendra Singh was a veteran of numerous firefights, where, time and again his inspiring leadership, resilience and courage resulted in outstanding successes. He had been awarded Sena Medal on the Line of Control for exemplary courage and initiative wherein he shot dead a Pakistan Regular Army in 2013.*



*

On 02 Sep 2015 at 2015 hours, contact was established with terrorists in Darel forest at Kupwara district of Jammu and Kashmir resulting in multiple splinter injuries to two comrades. Displaying exemplary leadership, the JCO moved with Lance Naik Mohan Nath Goswami to evacuate his comrades, drawing heavy fire in the process. Sensing the danger to his men, Subedar Mahendra immediately returned fire and displaying raw aggression charged and eliminated one terrorist at close quarters. His audaciousness startled the other terrorist who opened indiscriminate fire at him. Undeterred, he closed in with the terrorists when one terrorist rushed out firing and grievously wounded Subedar Mahendra in the abdomen. Despite his injury which paralysed him below the waist, he shot dead the terrorist at point blank range. Heedless of the threat posed by the terrorist fire and his incapacitating wound, he, in order to prevent any further casualties, forbade all attempts to evacuate him and endured tremendous pain to extricate himself.

For his exemplary leadership, selflessness and courage beyond compare while eliminating two foreign terrorists and assisting in casualty evacuation despite being paralysed below the waist, Subedar Mahendra Singh, Sena Medal is awarded “*KIRTI CHAKRA”*.

*SEPOY JAGDISH CHAND*










Sepoy Jagdish Chand was posted with 546 Defence Service Platoon attached with 18 Wing Air Force. On the night 01/02 Jan 2016 at 0330 hr while the individual was working on bonafide military duty at Defence Service Corps lines, five to six heavily armed terrorists entered the lines and opened indiscriminate fire on the troops working in the said location. The heavy firing resulted in two of his colleagues being fatally wounded. Showing presence of mind and conspicuous bravery Sepoy Jagdish Chand unmindful of his own safety ran after the closest terrorist, chased and overpowered him. Sepoy Jagdish Chand snatched the terrorist’s weapon to shoot him dead. In the process two more terrorists in vicinity opened fire on SepoyJagdish Chand killing him on the spot.

The great presence of mind, unmatched bravery and valour by Sepoy Jagdish Chand minimized further loss of lives and gave time for the quick reaction teams in the vicinity to react. Sepoy Jagdish Chand’s actions was also a setback to the terrorists. For his unparalled act of bravery Sepoy Jagdish Chand is awarded ‘*KIRTI CHAKRA(POSTHUMOUS)’*.



*COLONEL SANTOSH YASHWANT MAHADIK, SENA MEDAL*
Colonel Santosh Yashwant Mahadik, SM, a dynamic officer from the Parachute Regiment (Special Forces) was commanding 41 Rashtriya Rifles from July 2014. Col Santosh with his inspirational leadership and humane skills and altered the narrative of kupwara town through successful OP SADBHAVANA initiatives in education, sports and health care.Colonel Santosh was leading a search operation based on specific input about the likely presence of terrorists in general area Manigah Forest of Kupwara district of Jammu and Kashmir on 17 November 2015. At about 1215 hours, he received an input about the likely movement of terrorists in the forested area near Kashmiri Manigah. Always having led from the front, Colonel Santosh alongwith his Quick Reaction Team (QRT) expeditiously moved to the suspected site. As the team was deploying, they came under heavy and effective fire of terrorists hiding in the forest. Pinned down by the terrorists fire in the open, he immediately maneuvered to outflank the terrorists and engaged them from an advantageous position. Undeterred by the heavy volume of terrorists fire and with utter disregard to personal safety, Colonel Santosh provided his troops an opportunity to take cover. In the fire fight however, he suffered multiple gunshot wounds. Unmindful of his grievous injuries, Colonel Santosh kept the terrorists pinned down till he was evacuated. He later succumbed to his injuries and attained martyrdom.*



*


Colonel Santosh Y Mahadik made the supreme sacrifice in keeping with the highest traditions of the Indian Army while ensuring safety of the troops he commanded and personally led from the forefront.


For this act of exemplary leadership, exceptional gallantry and utmost dedication to duty even at the peril of his own life, Colonel Santosh Yashwant Mahadik is awarded “*Shaurya Chakra (POSTHUMOUS)*”


*MAJOR PRAPHUL KUMAR BHARDWAJ*
Major Praphul Kumar Bhardwaj launched a special operation in Awankhu village in Phek district of Nagaland, 120 km from the closest existing Assam Rifles post on the night of 13 July 15. Negotiating thick forests and treacherous slopes in extreme and inclement weather, Major Praphul’s party reached the target at 2300 hours, 15 July 15.*



*


At 2345 hours, on observing some movement around a hut, Major Praphul along with a buddy pair closed in to ascertain the movement upon which they drew heavy volume of fire. Sensing danger to his party, in absence of any cover and accurate incoming fire, Major Praphul charged onto the hut and neutralized one terrorist at point blank range. During this action, he sustained Gun Shot Wound in his right elbow as also his weapon was hit by a bullet, thereby jamming it. Despite profusely bleeding, with his weapon now non functional and his party pinned down, Major Praphul, utterly disregarding his personal safety, crawled and lobbed two grenades in the hut and neutralized the second terrorist.


For this conspicuous act of gallantry and acting beyond the call of duty, Major Praphul Kumar Bhardwaj is awarded “*SHAURYA CHAKRA”.*



*MAJOR ANURAG KUMAR*
Major Anurag Kumar was leading a helicopter inserted 9 PARA (Special Forces) Team in Search and Destroy Operations in Lidder Panzal at Baramulla district of Jammu and Kashmir on 26/27 August 2015.*



*


Post insertion, Major Anurag led his squads to the location where terrorists were last seen and organized the search. At 1400 hours on 26 August 2015, the officer observed suspicious movement behind boulders and deployed his squads before shouting a challenge which drew indiscriminate terrorist fire. Realising grave threat to his men from the ricocheting bullets, the officer risked his safety and under covering fire of Havildar Virender Singh and Naik Javid Ahmad Chopan closed in with and eliminated one terrorist. Major Anurag then established a cordon to cut off escape of remaining terrorists. At 1100 hours on 27 August 2015 one terrorist attempting to break cordon rushed out firing indiscriminately. Unmindful of the heavy fire and displaying immense courage Major Anurag engaged and shot dead the terrorist at close quarters. He further engaged one trappedterrorist in a conversation thereby assisting Naik Chopan in his apprehension.


For his exceptional tactical acumen, selflessness, inspiring leadership and courage beyond compare while eliminating two foreign terrorists and assisting in the apprehension of the third terrorist, Major Anurag Kumar is awarded “*SHAURYA CHAKRA*”.

*MAJOR SANDIP YADAV*
Major Sandip has been operating in Pulwama since Jul 2013 and his flair for generating intelligence and conduct of operations is exemplary.


On 10 August, information was received about presence of terrorists in village Ratanpur at Pulwama district of Jammu and Kashmir. Major Sandip while moving cross country noticed a suspicious movement in a paddy field. The two terrorists immediately opened indiscriminate fire at the officer. Major Sandip stood his ground and retaliated the fire which pinned down the terrorists. Undeterred by heavy fire and showing exceptional presence of mind, the officer redeployed his team which prevented the escape of terrorists.


On 11 August, after a grueling eighteen hours of firefight, Major Sandip decided to crawl close to the terrorists in an open area without any cover. As he was doing so, he came under heavy fire. Unmindful of the grave danger and showing raw courage under heavy fire with utter disregard to personal safety, he crawled close and eliminated both the terrorists. The bold action ensured elimination of two Lashker tanzeem terrorists as well as no collateral damage.


For displaying exemplary leadership, fearlessness in face of intense firing, gallantry and courage beyond the call of duty, Major Sandip Yadav is awarded “*SHAURYA CHAKRA*”.




*LIEUTENANT HARJINDER SINGH*
On 05 June 2015, Lieutenant Harjinder Singh was the Commander of an Ambush Point in Jammu and Kashmir. At 2230 hours, a group of three terrorists was spotted. Lieutenant Harjinder Singh continuously tracked the move of terrorists and immediately assessed the situation and brought down effective fire and engaged the infiltrators. The effective fire forced the terrorists to move along the Anti Infiltration Obstacle System to a higher ground . The terrorists split into two groups to divert attention and escape. At 0500 hours the officer moved to engage the terrorists. Displaying exemplary courage, he accurately fired the Multi Grenade Launcher and neutralized the first terrorist. In the mean time the second terrorist opened with automatic fire. Undeterred by the terrorist fire, the officer closed in with the terrorist and neutralized him at close quarters. Despite grave danger to him, the officer continuously maintained contact with the terrorists and eliminated them in a surgical manner.*



*


For this act of conspicuous bravery under strenuous operational conditions and exhibition of raw courage and fortitude, Lieutenant Harjinder Singh is awarded*“SHAURYA* *CHAKRA”.*





*NAIK SATISH KUMAR*
Naik Satish Kumar was serving with 21 Rashtriya Rifles since 07 April 2015.


On 04 December 2015, he was commanding a small team as part of search and destroyed operation in Boban Wastar Forest. Observing speed and stealth, he led his small team to the likely target area, searching the forest cautiously and deliberately. At 1305 hours, Naik Anil was suddenly fired upon by terrorists injuring him. Realising Naik Anil being hit, Nk Satish Kumar crawled ahead to a fallen tree, engaged and eliminated one terrorist at close range. He then provided Nk Anil first aid and ensured his timely evacuation. Simultaneously, the second hidden terrorist opened fire injuring him on his right leg. Unmindful of his injury, Nk Satish engaged this terrorist and despite profuse bleeding closed in, lobbing two hand grenade towards the terrorist who was still firing and killed him. However, during his assault towards the terrorist he suffered another gunshot wound and attained martyrdom.


For displaying extraordinary courage, commitment beyond call of duty in eliminating two hardcore terrorists and making the ultimate sacrifice, Naik Satish Kumar is awarded *“SHAURYA CHAKRA” (POSTHUMOUS).*



*NAIK KHEEM SINGH MEHRA*
On night 08 August 2015, three terrorists attempted infiltration in area Lara along Jumagund Nar on Line of Control at Jammu and Kashmir. Naik Kheem Singh Mehra was deployed as a part of ambush to prevent their escape.


At 0530 hours, the terrorist group was spotted by Naik Kheem Singh moving in the jungle across Jumagund Nar towards Line of Control. Displaying tenacity, grit and total audacity, Naik Kheem Singh advanced across the Nala, climbed on opposite spur and engaged the terrorists at close range killing one terrorist on the spot and preventing their escape.


Heavy exchange of fire commenced between terrorists, Naik Kheem Singh and balance of ambush party. Taking cover of boulder and trees, the terrorists maneuvered to flank the main ambush party. Sensing imminent danger to own party, Naik Kheem Singh with utter disregard to personal safety, broke cover and charged the terrorists killing another terrorist in close quarter fire fight.


Naik Kheem Singh Mehra displayed raw courage, audacity in face of grave personal danger and an indomitable fighting spirit. For this act of fortitude and selfless bravery in which the NCO prevented harm to own troops and killed two foreign terrorists, Naik Kheem Singh Mehra is awarded “*Shaurya Chakra”*.


*SEPOY DHARMA RAM*
On 25 May 2015 Sepoy Dharma Ram was part of a patrol launched by Major Kobitirha Sanyal towards village Kanjikul at Kulgam district of Jammu and Kashmir. At 1300 hours the patrol came under sudden heavy volume of fire from a nearby house. Sepoy Dharma Ram exhibited exemplary presence of mind to warn his team of the direction of fire and encountered the terrorist fearlessly in a direct firefight. He selflessly put himself in the face of terrorist fire and fought with nerves of steel to prevent any team member from getting injured.


During the firefight the individual sustained two bullet wounds on his back and thigh. Unmindful and undeterred from the grave injury and although bleeding profusely the individual exhibited exemplary field craft to crawl to an appropriate position from where he brought accurate fire on the terrorist and injured him gravely. The terrorist was thus neutralized and identified as Lashkar-e-Toiba District Commander.


Sepoy Dharma Ram made supreme sacrifice of his life in true traditions of the Indian Army. For this act of courage beyond the call of duty, dogged determination and conspicuous gallantry Sepoy Dharma Ram is awarded *“SHAURYA CHAKRA” (POSHTHUMOUS).*






*MAJOR PRAPHUL KUMAR BHARDWAJ
*
@Levina 
That's the correct name in that blunder pic

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## Levina

PARIKRAMA said:


> *MAJOR PRAPHUL KUMAR BHARDWAJ*
> Major Praphul Kumar Bhardwaj launched a special operation in Awankhu village in Phek district of Nagaland, 120 km from the closest existing Assam Rifles post on the night of 13 July 15. Negotiating thick forests and treacherous slopes in extreme and inclement weather, Major Praphul’s party reached the target at 2300 hours, 15 July 15.*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> At 2345 hours, on observing some movement around a hut, Major Praphul along with a buddy pair closed in to ascertain the movement upon which they drew heavy volume of fire. Sensing danger to his party, in absence of any cover and accurate incoming fire, Major Praphul charged onto the hut and neutralized one terrorist at point blank range. During this action, he sustained Gun Shot Wound in his right elbow as also his weapon was hit by a bullet, thereby jamming it. Despite profusely bleeding, with his weapon now non functional and his party pinned down, Major Praphul, utterly disregarding his personal safety, crawled and lobbed two grenades in the hut and neutralized the second terrorist.
> 
> 
> For this conspicuous act of gallantry and acting beyond the call of duty, Major Praphul Kumar Bhardwaj is awarded “*SHAURYA CHAKRA”.*


Yes, that's him. 
His name in the Pic that I had posted was wrong. ADGPI!!!! Grrrr
That was the blunder I was talking about.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## mkb95



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## mkb95

does anybody know what kind of helmet sikh soldiers in special forces wear?


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## Unknowncommando

Garud SF sniper and spotter

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## Abingdonboy

NSG during R-Day:


















On the right you can see a member of the SPG's Counter Sniper Unit (CSU)- the first time I've seen them pictured.




@Levina @Unknowncommando @Koovie @kbd-raaf



mkb95 said:


> does anybody know what kind of helmet sikh soldiers in special forces wear?


The same helmets as everyone else bro

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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG during R-Day:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the right you can see a member of the SPG's Counter Sniper Unit (CSU)- the first time I've seen them pictured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Levina @Unknowncommando @Koovie @kbd-raaf
> 
> 
> The same helmets as everyone else bro


i was asking regard to turban,since they are not allowed to take them off.do they have modified helmets or something else?




i've only seen these ones




but they are not standard issue in special forces.

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> i was asking regard to turban,since they are not allowed to take them off.do they have modified helmets or something else?
> 
> i've only seen these ones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but they are not standard issue in special forces.


This is a Turban but it does not represent the size of the helmet needed.


For functional roles Sikhs can tie their hair in a Patka:



















And almost any helmet will easily fit as proven by the fact that Sikh fighter pilots have no real issues with helmets:







Gp Capt AP Singh, Tejas Test Pilot:











The tradtional tin helmets worn by the IA though were simply too tight to be worn by Sikhs and this is why the Patka was designed but it proved to be so effective the entire IA adopted it for CI operations.


















So in SF units the Sikh operators will wear the same helmet as their team mates.

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## Abingdonboy

Female SPG officer in Modi's protection detail:







@Vauban @Levina @anant_s @PARIKRAMA I can't remember when but we were having a discussion about this^

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> Female SPG officer in Modi's protection detail:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Vauban @Levina @anant_s @PARIKRAMA I can't remember when but we were having a discussion about this^


You 've a gold fish's memory. Lol
Remember a thread on which we were talking PM and his visit to BD?

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF







Marine commando Anil Raina first officer from navy special forces and Jammu Kashmir to command the navy contingent at republic day parade New Delhi.




Marco




NSG at rajpath.
I dont understand why they are using those old helmets when they have modern ACH with rails and their old russian helmets. I know that sniper teams doesn't need helmets in these conditions but still new ACHs are being added to old russians so they must phase out thr old bucket helmets. But they are still using them in drills as well as during deployment.
@Abingdonboy ur thoughts bro

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## Dandpatta

The helmet confusion reigns in babudom. There NSG guys have to make do with whatever babus choose. I have always thought NSG guys have a regulation helmet but now, more than ever, I too am seeing pictures of them wearing M1 type spin-offs instead of the PASGT types.

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## ranjeet

There were footage of Special forces from Siachen in Discovery Channel's Revealed: Siachen

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 289785
> View attachment 289786
> 
> PARA SF
> View attachment 289787
> View attachment 289788
> 
> Marine commando Anil Raina first officer from navy special forces and Jammu Kashmir to command the navy contingent at republic day parade New Delhi.
> View attachment 289790
> 
> Marco
> View attachment 289789
> 
> NSG at rajpath.
> I dont understand why they are using those old helmets when they have modern ACH with rails and their old russian helmets. I know that sniper teams doesn't need helmets in these conditions but still new ACHs are being added to old russians so they must phase out thr old bucket helmets. But they are still using them in drills as well as during deployment.
> @Abingdonboy ur thoughts bro





Dandpatta said:


> The helmet confusion reigns in babudom. There NSG guys have to make do with whatever babus choose. I have always thought NSG guys have a regulation helmet but now, more than ever, I too am seeing pictures of them wearing M1 type spin-offs instead of the PASGT types.



I guess it is a question of inventory and resource allocation. The main CT task force have all the "Gucci" kit and are all wearing the new standard helmets with most of them in the ACH+rail, they also have the best gear and weapons as they are the "tip of the spear" for the NSG. Those you see with the out-dated helmets are support/secondary teams- as well as those in the hubs.

Obviously it's not a good situation and hopefully in the future every single NSG operator has the best possible equipment.


This GoI is meant to have increased the NSG's budget so let's hope that this translates into even better kit.

I think that the NSG will start to adopt the FAST high cut helmet in the coming years.



ranjeet said:


> There were footage of Special forces from Siachen in Discovery Channel's Revealed: Siachen


Any links to the full episode? @PARIKRAMA @anant_s 



+ @ranjeet, I'm still awiating your self-shot vid of the PM's motorcade bro

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## Abingdonboy

JAMMU, Jan 25: A son of the soil has been selected to lead Indian Navy contingent at Rajpath during Republic Day Parade on January 26.
Squadron Commander Anil Raina, son of Chander Parkash Raina of Miran Sahib, will be the first officer from Jammu to lead a Naval contingent during a Republic Day Parade. He will also be the first officer from Marine Commandos to lead a Naval Contingent.
He is presently posted at Indian Naval Academy Ezhimala, Kerala as Squadron Commander.
Born in a lower middle class family, with father as a shopkeeper and mother a housewife, Anil joined Navy as Recruit after matriculation to support the family even as he was school topper in class 10th in 1999.
While working in Navy, he completed Plus 2 in Correspondence and by his hard work, got selected in Commission Exam in Navy in 2001. He joined Navy Academy Goa in 2002 with Plus Two NDA/Naval Academy Entry Cadets.
During the three-year training at Naval Academy, Anil achieved various special awards and feats. He became second Cadet in history of Naval Academy to win Best Tenderfooter and Best Typhooner Awards in the rigorous Jungle Training camps (Camp Tenderfoot happens in first year and Camp typhoon happens in second year; Only one cadet is selected as best cadet of whole camp).
He was also awarded +2 (Plus Two) grading in Parade Training, a highest grading that a cadet can achieve in his whole training of three years. Only one or two cadets in a course get this. He won Award of Best Master of ceremony for five times during Inter Squadron Dramatics Competition and remained as Chief Editor of Naval Academy’s prestigious Magazine ‘AHOY’ for three terms. He Passed out with the Chief of Naval Staff Trophy for Best Cadet in Seamanship in 2005.
Anil represented his Squadron in Inter Squadron Water Polo, Football, Hockey, Volleyball and X-Country Running. He passed out with the Degree of B Sc in Naval Sciences from Goa University.
He led Indian Navy contingent during SAIL Parade at Bremerhaven Germany in 2005, as a Sea Cadet from INS Tarangini (the SAIL training ship of Navy), along with other countries of world and the contingent was awarded the Smartest Crew Trophy.
He commanded the Passsing Out Parade of Sea Cadets On Board Naval Ship INS TIR in December 2005 and passed out as a Midshipman.
Anil Raina got commissioned in July 2006, after completion of total four years of training. He volunteered to join combat diving course of ten months at Navy Diving School Kochi, Kerala. He was got selected for course and passed out with the trophy of Best Diver of the course in November 2007. He became first Combat Diving Officer in Navy from J&K.
Thereafter, he volunteered to join Navy special forces, Marine Commandos (MARCOS) and got selected for the course in 2008. Passed out in January 2009 with award of Best Commando in physicals and became first officer in Marine Commandos from J&K. *He was awarded On the Spot Commendation by Commander-in-Chief Eastern Naval Command for counter terrorist operations in Kashmir in 2013. *In 2015, he was awarded On the Spot Commendation by Commander-in-Chief Southern Naval Command for professional excellence.



http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/son-of-soil-to-lead-indian-navy-contingent-during-r-day-parade-2/

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## Unknowncommando

NSG 







PARA SF




9th PARA SF drill in Pune

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## Unknowncommando

Marco in Kashmir during Navy Chief's Visit
Notice the SEAL TRIDENT on his chest
Thanks to hkdas for the pic




Para







NSG




PARA SF marching on Rajpath

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## ranjeet

Abingdonboy said:


> I guess it is a question of inventory and resource allocation. The main CT task force have all the "Gucci" kit and are all wearing the new standard helmets with most of them in the ACH+rail, they also have the best gear and weapons as they are the "tip of the spear" for the NSG. Those you see with the out-dated helmets are support/secondary teams- as well as those in the hubs.
> 
> Obviously it's not a good situation and hopefully in the future every single NSG operator has the best possible equipment.
> 
> 
> This GoI is meant to have increased the NSG's budget so let's hope that this translates into even better kit.
> 
> I think that the NSG will start to adopt the FAST high cut helmet in the coming years.
> 
> 
> Any links to the full episode? @PARIKRAMA @anant_s
> 
> 
> 
> + @ranjeet, I'm still awiating your self-shot vid of the PM's motorcade bro


Sure, will do that bro. Haven't forgotten about it.

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs featured:

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## bloo

Republic Day - NSG

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## Abingdonboy

CAT member can just about be seen at the top:

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## mkb95



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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS




PARA SF marching

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## Abingdonboy



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## Unknowncommando

NBC warfare drill NSG

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NBC warfare drill NSG


This is definetly an area the NSG need to be devouting a lot more attention to.

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## KingRaj

I don't think NSG needs to practice much in NBC scenarios as they are very unlikely to be used in such events.


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## mkb95

KingRaj said:


> I don't think NSG needs to practice much in NBC scenarios as they are very unlikely to be used in such events.


in special forces,it doesnt work like that.they have to be prepared for everything no matter how unlikely it seems.

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## Abingdonboy

KingRaj said:


> I don't think NSG needs to practice much in NBC scenarios as they are very unlikely to be used in such events.


On the contrary. The NBC/CBRN threat is only increasing every year and the possibility that terrorists get their hands on a "dirty bomb" cannot be ruled out given India's Western neighbour. In that situation the NSG would be India's "go to" force. It is imperative that they are thoroughly versed in fighting in such an enviroment.

The NSG are also all qualified paradivers and many are trained in combat diving by the Indian Navy- they have to be ready for anything and everything.

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## mkb95

sorry if already posted,but here's an amazing video of nsg

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF):

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

INDIAN NAVY MARCOS IFR2016

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## mkb95

Strike team of NSG









Special Group




para sf in action




during exercise Vajra Prahar

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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF):



That is a very nice pic.
I'm yet to see MARCOS with full gear DPS, rebreathers and all.


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## mkb95



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## Abingdonboy

Members of 2nd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and Indian Army Special Forces conduct combat water survival training at Soldiers Field House, Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., Jan. 19, 2016. (U.S. Army Photo by Staff Sgt. Sarah Jane Roberts)

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## Brahmaputra Mail



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## Unknowncommando

PARA

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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

That last pic is from a movie (Vaaranam Ayiram)!

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## Brahmaputra Mail

NSG in Guwahati (South Asian Games Opening Ceremony)

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## Unknowncommando

Para







NSG

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos IFR2016

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## Kushal Sinha

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 291906
> 
> Para
> View attachment 291908
> View attachment 291909
> 
> NSG


Well did you like my picture editing? ( the black and white para pic) (see the watermark on the bottom left of my page.
For more photos go to- Indian Defense / Research Advancements

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## Unknowncommando

PARA
A MARCO presenting a boom "Maritime Heritage" to honourable Prime Minister Mr. Narendra Modi.

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs:

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## mkb95



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## Brahmaputra Mail

Unknowncommando said:


>



This photo was taken during attack in Tangdhar in Kupwara.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw I just came to know LeT chief Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi's son was gunned down by Para SF guys as claimed by Lt. Gen. Prakash Katoch long way back in the Kashmir valley.





10 Para SF Pic From ADGPI

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## Abingdonboy

Some old glimpses of the SPG with Dr MMS (2011):

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## jetray

Unknowncommando said:


>


Instruction on the gate says no mobile or camera allowed and we have two photographers clicking away brazenly ...

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## Abingdonboy

jetray said:


> Instruction on the gate says no mobile or camera allowed and we have two photographers clicking away brazenly ...


Haha, just what I was thinking but I guess they mean no mobile or camera beyond this point ie inside the base.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG WITH US SF MEMBERS AT MANESAR

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 292709
> 
> NSG WITH US SF MEMBERS AT MANESAR


10th SFG and NSG's 51 SAG from Ex "Balanced Iroquois" in November 2015.

Nice find bro! If you have any more please post them, other than this and the offical release at the time (below) we have nothing from this exercise.









The black uniform with the multicam plate carrier and helmet reminds me of GSG-9:

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## bloo

Abingdonboy said:


> MARCOs:



Are these from republic day 2016?


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## Abingdonboy

bloo said:


> Are these from republic day 2016?


IFR 2016

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## cerberus

bloo said:


> Are these from republic day 2016?


IFR

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos IFR







NSG old pics

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## hkdas

bloo said:


> Are these from republic day 2016?


watch from 1:01:26





vajra prahar 2016.

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## hkdas

marcos in IFR-16

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


>


Not from IFR bro, this is post Yeman evacuation Ops.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Not from IFR bro, this is post Yeman evacuation Ops.



oh.. my mistake... i got that pics from random google search.

@*Abingdonboy*
bro, indian navy deploy offshore patrol vessels under the command of marcos officer??

_*ARUN BAHUGUNA *(Marine Commando, CO INS Kankarso) On 28 January 2011, INS Cankarso, under the command of Commander Arun Bahuguna. was on an antipiracy patrol off the Lakshadweep Islands was directed to intercept a pirate ‘mother-ship’ who has successfully intercepted the Thai-flagged pirated trawler, Prantalay-14._

LIVEFIST: India's I-Day Gallantry Award Winners & Why (Part 2)










^^^*ARUN BAHUGUNA(central)*

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> oh.. my mistake... i got that pics from random google search.
> 
> @*Abingdonboy*
> bro, indian navy deploy offshore patrol vessels under the command of marcos officer??
> 
> _*ARUN BAHUGUNA *(Marine Commando, CO INS Kankarso) On 28 January 2011, INS Cankarso, under the command of Commander Arun Bahuguna. was on an antipiracy patrol off the Lakshadweep Islands was directed to intercept a pirate ‘mother-ship’ who has successfully intercepted the Thai-flagged pirated trawler, Prantalay-14._
> 
> LIVEFIST: India's I-Day Gallantry Award Winners & Why (Part 2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 293295
> 
> ^^^*ARUN BAHUGUNA(central)*


He is an Indian Navy officer first who happened to join the MARCOs at some point and later went on to be a Captain of a ship (after leaving the MARCOs), he was still an IN officer, why not? This happens quite reguarly in the USN SEALs also. Whilst most SF officers/operators will remain in that unit until they retire- not all do.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> He is an Indian Navy officer first who happened to join the MARCOs at some point and later went on to be a Captain of a ship (after leaving the MARCOs), he was still an IN officer, why not? This happens quite reguarly in the USN SEALs also. Whilst most SF officers/operators will remain in that unit until they retire- not all do.


no, bro. at the time the anti piracy operation was conducted he was in marcos... now he is kashmir. 
in live fist, shivaroor says ARUN BAHUGUNA was commanding the OPV. 
an active serving marcos commanding ships?? never heard about navy seals doing that. once a navy officer or enlisted men is selected as seals then he will serve as seal and never go for commanding the ship. 


this pics is taken from recent navel chief visit in Kashmir.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> no, bro. at the time the anti piracy operation was conducted he was in marcos


Are you sure about that? He was active duty MARCOs at that time?



hkdas said:


> never heard about navy seals doing that. once a navy officer or enlisted men is selected as seals then he will serve as seal and never go for commanding the ship.



Not true. They are still part of the navy, once they have completed their tour of duty with whatever unit they are eleigable to join other streams just like any other sailor- there are plenty of examples of such, it is simply the case that many don't do that and that most of the SEALs are enlisted ranks and so can't go on to do so anyway.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Are you sure about that? He was active duty MARCOs at that time?


yes... he was CO of marcos in that operation. that operation was conduced few months after he returns from US after SEAL training. 

_The captain of the Cankarso, Commander Arun Bahuguna. He's the man who busted 15 pirates. They didn't know they were tangling with a Marine Commando who has also topped the US Navy SEAL course. In fact, when he was asked which of the two course he found tougher, he replied, 'If I had to repeat the courses and I had a choice, I would repeat the SEAL course'._
_
Images: Pirate Hunter INS Cankarso | StratPost_



Abingdonboy said:


> Not true. They are still part of the navy, once they have completed their tour of duty with whatever unit they are eleigable to join other streams just like any other sailor- there are plenty of examples of such, it is simply the case that many don't do that and that most of the SEALs are enlisted ranks and so can't go on to do so anyway.


but those who selected as seals are permanently selected as seals.. now their training and mandates are entirely different from an officer of enlisted men serving in ship. so how can some one rejoin after a long time?? he would have lost the touch with work in the ship. 
bro can you post any reports, news of former seals who is serving in ships as officer or enlisted men??


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## Abingdonboy

NSG from the Chennai Hub in Bengaluru:








It seems the new ACH helmet hasn't made it to all operators in the NSG yet (which is a huge shame) and especially those in the hubs. The Main CT task force in Delhi seem to get all the newest gear first.

Not sure it would offer the best protection but the NSG in their current gear and with high-cut FAST helmets would look awesome. The GoI (I can only assume) is pumping some serious cash into the NSG now so let's hope we don't have to see this outdated helmet in service for much longer.

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## hkdas

*1st SFG(A) Vajra Prahar JCET*

1st Special Forces Group (Airborne)





Story by Staff Sgt. Terrance Payton






Sarah Jane Schmidt
Members of 2nd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and Indian Army Special Forces conduct combat water survival training at Soldiers Field House, Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., Jan. 19, 2016. (U.S. Army Photo by Staff Sgt. Sarah Jane Roberts)

JOINT BASE LEWIS-MCCHORD, Wash. - Green Berets assigned to 2nd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne), conducted Vajra Prahar training exercise with Indian Special Operation Forces at Joint Base Lewis-McChord and Camp Rilea, Ore., Jan. 18-29, 2016.

The two-week exercise, which hasn’t happened at JBLM since 2011, was a bilateral Joint Combined Exchange Training exercise that improves the ability of the forces involved to respond to a wide range of contingencies. The past few years has seen increased cooperation between the two countries military forces with a remarkable expansion of bilateral training exercises.

“I see our military to military partnership as a very important pillar that contributes to the strategic relationship between the two countries,” said Lt. Col. Terry Butcher, commander of 2nd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne). “They [India] are a very important partner, both for the regional security of south Asia and the maritime security. I think that we directly contribute to that by working with their special operation forces.”

The two countries are working together to safeguard maritime security and freedom of navigation as well as strengthening their partnership to combat terrorism and piracy. 

“The exercise was strictly maritime focused so everything that we did was in the water,” said 2nd battalion’s operational detachment commander. "We started with an introduction to boat movements and finished with the culminating exercise which was an 8 nautical mile boat movement to a beach landing.”

Along with the boat movements and beach landing the training exercise also included diving, navigation, helo-casting and an airborne operation.

“Working out there with them in the water we get better and they get better,” said Butcher. “We improve upon our individual skills and collective skills as a unit.”

“We trained for this at home, jumping into cold water,” said Maj. Puneet Atwal, commander of the Indian forces. “This is good training. This military to military interaction between the countries will be good for our future.”

Butcher said that the training strengthens the partnership, builds relationships and provides better interoperability.

“If there ever comes a time where we have to work directly hand-in-hand with our Indian partners, understanding the way that they operate on the ground or in the water is going to enable us to work with them using their particular tactics and their methods of operation,” said Butcher. “Just knowing that you have a foreign military unit that you can reach out to, keeps the relationship strong between our units.”

“The greatest benefit for our soldiers is any chance that we get to work along side our allies,” said the operational detachment commander. “It was a good exercise and we got a lot out of it and everyone came away a better-trained soldier.”

The U.S. is committed to broadening ties to Indo-Asia-Pacific partners. As part of the rebalance, the U.S. is strengthening traditional alliances while enhancing forward presence in Southeast Asia, in Oceania and the Indian Ocean.

DVIDS - News - 1st SFG(A) Vajra Prahar JCET

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## hkdas

*American, Indian Special Forces train together at JBLM*
By J.M. Simpson on January 28, 2016





Indian Special Forces soldiers wade ashore after jumping from a helicopter as part of their training. Photo credit: J.M. Simpson


Write to Editor
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About 150 meters to the right side of the special action vessel, or SAV, a Chinook helicopter slowly moved forward as it maintained an altitude of about 10 feet off the cold water between Ketron Island and Solo Point.

The sound and fury of the Chinook's powerful, 3,750 horsepower driven tandem sixty-foot rotor blades created a spiraling storm of salty spray.

Into the fury jumped nine 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and 9th Battalion Parachute Regiment Indian Special Forces soldiers in a training event called helocasting. After the last operator entered the water, the Chinook ascended quickly.

Helocasting is an airborne technique used by small units to enter an area of operations. Conducted by helicopter, the aircraft assumes an altitude just above the water at an airspeed of just over one mile per hour as the team members exit and enter the water.

As the sound and fury subsided, American Special Forces soldiers quickly approached in two zodiac boats to pick up the jumpers and brought them to Solo Point.

"We are developing a very good relationship with the American Special Forces," commented Col. Bhaskar Tomar last Friday morning as he observed the training from the SAV.

"We are working together; it is the military-to-military contact that improves this ability to work together."

Last held in 2012, Vajra Prahar is a two-week bilateral exercise between America and India's elite soldiers. Forty-two soldiers from the near Asian country's special forces trained with and learned from a dozen of 1st Group's dive team.

Driven by practicality and politics, the training is based on American and Indian concerns about terrorist or pirate activities off India's coast.

The 1st Special Forces Group works primarily in the Pacific region, and it is not uncommon for members to train annually in about 20 countries. This is why the Group's "First in Asia" motto is relevant. One of its battalions is stationed in Okinawa; the others are based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord.

"This exchange is taking place at a time when the political relations between the two countries are extremely strong," said Arun Kumar Singh, India's Ambassador to the United States, in an interview earlier in the week.

Last week's jump into the South Puget Sound's briny water underscores the relationship.

"We're training with our Indian partners to build their capacity," commented Lt. Col. Terry Butcher, commander of 1st Group's 2nd Battalion, before the helocasting training began.

Moments later another Chinook rolled into a descent over the water and lined up for another drop of Indian and American special forces soldiers.

"We trained for this at home," mentioned Tomar as the SAV quickly followed the big helicopter and another group of American and Indian soldiers jumped into the water.

"The chance to work here with the American military is good for our future."

Indian Special Forces here - News Front - Northwest Military - Home of The Ranger, NW Airlifter & Weekly Volcano

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## hkdas

Pathankot Attack: Commando Who Took 4 Bullets Is Raring To Go Again


AMBALA: Corporal Shailabh Gaur cannot wait to join his unit again. A member of the Indian Air Force's elite commando unit, Garud, he is recovering from surgery because he took four bullets in the abdomen during a gunbattle with terrorists at the Pathankot Air Base on January 2.

Corporal Gaur says Hollywood movies like Commando and Rambo inspired him in school. With three generations of the family in the defence forces, he says, the choice of career was obvious: He joined the Air Force in 2010 and emerged as the best all-rounder during training that landed him in the elite unit. A commando's life is hard but the first real test came four years later.


His unit was flown from Adampur to Pathankot on January 1. The men were split into different groups and tasked with patrolling the air base. "It was around 3.30 am when we were asked to look around the vehicle maintenance area and clear the area," he recounts.

"We spotted a trail which led us inside the area, terrorists hiding there began firing as the platoon took positions," he recalls. In the gun battle, Corporal Gursewak Singh was shot and fell to the ground.

Then, Corporal Gaur felt something piercing his abdomen. He thought it was just a sliver of wood because there was a loud explosion at the same time. "Gursewak was a close friend, we had joined the Air Force together and we were buddies," he says.

The terrorists were firing at the commandoes from their Kalashnikovs. "They used lob grenades while reloading. Mortars were also fired at us. Thankfully, they didn't explode," he says. The commandos, though, could not use heavy weapons for the fear of collateral damage. The terrorists were out to destroy assets and the commandoes' brief was to secure the technical area where fighter jets and radars were.

It was only after the terrorists moved to a different location that Corporal Gaur could attend to his injuries. By then it was nearly 5 am. He had been fighting terrorists for over an hour.

At the Pathankot military hospital, four bullets and splinter pieces were removed from his body. Doctors were surprised that he had survived all that while because there was three litres of blood in the abdominal cavity due to internal bleeding.

But six weeks later, Corporal Gaur has almost recovered. He expects to return to his unit after a fitness test next week.

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## Bornubus



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## Abingdonboy

SPG:

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 293661
> View attachment 293662
> View attachment 293663
> View attachment 293664
> View attachment 293665
> View attachment 293666
> View attachment 293667
> 
> PARA SF


Bro, tell me you have a link to the discovery channel episode in full

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Bro, tell me you have a link to the discovery channel episode in full


Bro i got these ss from youtube vid. Otherwise i would have posted the link of full vid.

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## Dandpatta

Bornubus said:


> View attachment 293634


@Abingdonboy @Tshering22
This is where my beef is. I do not doubt the professionalism of our troops but what happened to uniform camouflages? One wearing grey, one green... They look like militias / rebels TBH. It would be easy to pick out any of these by an enemy sniper. Tshering - your opinion please.


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## Bornubus

Dandpatta said:


> @Abingdonboy @Tshering22
> This is where my beef is. I do not doubt the professionalism of our troops but what happened to uniform camouflages? One wearing grey, one green... They look like militias / rebels TBH. It would be easy to pick out any of these by an enemy sniper. Tshering - your opinion please.


This is kashmir and not only that Para operators also wear kashmiri feran and Muslim salwar kameez.

Go back few pages I've posted the pic of Major Sudhir walia.In a field what matters is the result not what they wear,this ain't no fashion show.


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## Dandpatta

Bornubus said:


> This is kashmir and not only that Para operators also wear kashmiri feran and Muslim salwar kameez.
> 
> Go back few pages I've posted the pic of Major Sudhir walia.In a field what matters is the result not what they wear,this ain't no fashion show.



@Bornubus, did I say this is to be a fashion show? If you read my post carefully, the varying colors of their garments is easy picking for any potential snipe. Hope you get my point.


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## hkdas

Dandpatta said:


> @Abingdonboy @Tshering22
> This is where my beef is. I do not doubt the professionalism of our troops but what happened to uniform camouflages? One wearing grey, one green... They look like militias / rebels TBH. It would be easy to pick out any of these by an enemy sniper. Tshering - your opinion please.



there are good possibility that those are SOG of J&K police. even if they are para sf, then what the problem? it is better to use some civilian clothing than wearing uniform and "special forces" tab.

even RR use mix of civilian dress and combat uniform. 




^^ marcos in J&K. you can see their combat uniform under that Phiran



Dandpatta said:


> @Bornubus, did I say this is to be a fashion show? If you read my post carefully, the varying colors of their garments is easy picking for any potential snipe. Hope you get my point.



that are using civilian dress... how could a sniper know that the man in green,blue or any other colored dress is an army man?? in the mean time a sniper can identify soldiers in army fatigues much easy,

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## mkb95

para sf













K9 Unit of NSG

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## hkdas

mkb95 said:


> K9 Unit of NSG


bro, that is CRPF's dog during inauguration of CRPF's Dog breeding and training school in 2011





.


.

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## Tshering22

Dandpatta said:


> @Abingdonboy @Tshering22
> This is where my beef is. I do not doubt the professionalism of our troops but what happened to uniform camouflages? One wearing grey, one green... They look like militias / rebels TBH. It would be easy to pick out any of these by an enemy sniper. Tshering - your opinion please.



There are times when paras and other special units have to not look too visible to a crowd. Since J&K are a sensitive zone this further makes sense.

Additionally, there is some gripe with the uniform issuing authority in the military which means that at times soldiers get their own stitched with permission. So there is a slight variation.

Camouflage pattern in Indian military is not to blend in but rather to let the others know that they are there.

Confusing as it defeats the purpose. 

Which is why you see majority troops stationed in Rajasthan as well as Garwal dressed in Woodland camo which is clearly visible in these terrains.



hkdas said:


> Pathankot Attack: Commando Who Took 4 Bullets Is Raring To Go Again
> 
> 
> AMBALA: Corporal Shailabh Gaur cannot wait to join his unit again. A member of the Indian Air Force's elite commando unit, Garud, he is recovering from surgery because he took four bullets in the abdomen during a gunbattle with terrorists at the Pathankot Air Base on January 2.
> 
> Corporal Gaur says Hollywood movies like Commando and Rambo inspired him in school. With three generations of the family in the defence forces, he says, the choice of career was obvious: He joined the Air Force in 2010 and emerged as the best all-rounder during training that landed him in the elite unit. A commando's life is hard but the first real test came four years later.
> 
> 
> His unit was flown from Adampur to Pathankot on January 1. The men were split into different groups and tasked with patrolling the air base. "It was around 3.30 am when we were asked to look around the vehicle maintenance area and clear the area," he recounts.
> 
> "We spotted a trail which led us inside the area, terrorists hiding there began firing as the platoon took positions," he recalls. In the gun battle, Corporal Gursewak Singh was shot and fell to the ground.
> 
> Then, Corporal Gaur felt something piercing his abdomen. He thought it was just a sliver of wood because there was a loud explosion at the same time. "Gursewak was a close friend, we had joined the Air Force together and we were buddies," he says.
> 
> The terrorists were firing at the commandoes from their Kalashnikovs. "They used lob grenades while reloading. Mortars were also fired at us. Thankfully, they didn't explode," he says. The commandos, though, could not use heavy weapons for the fear of collateral damage. The terrorists were out to destroy assets and the commandoes' brief was to secure the technical area where fighter jets and radars were.
> 
> It was only after the terrorists moved to a different location that Corporal Gaur could attend to his injuries. By then it was nearly 5 am. He had been fighting terrorists for over an hour.
> 
> At the Pathankot military hospital, four bullets and splinter pieces were removed from his body. Doctors were surprised that he had survived all that while because there was three litres of blood in the abdominal cavity due to internal bleeding.
> 
> But six weeks later, Corporal Gaur has almost recovered. He expects to return to his unit after a fitness test next week.
> 
> View attachment 293558
> View attachment 293559
> View attachment 293560
> View attachment 293561



So happy to see him back in health!

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## Abingdonboy

The DJANGO said:


> The good thing about Pathankot attack is that the top leadership decided that the best SF unit should protect the fighters and radars and hence the 1st Para SF was protecting the assets.
> 
> Garud and NSG along with Ghatak/QRT were on the hunting.
> 
> It was a stupid decision to include NSG in the operation as a aggressor unit inside a military installment.Para or the Ghataks could have done that and have done that many times.
> 
> Similar operation on a Army camp in Jammu and Srinagar were taken care of in 2004 and 1999 by the Ghataks.
> 
> Garuds fought well and will only learn from this operation.


IA, IAF cheifs and NSA were the ones who greenlit the NSG's deployment. The ovveriding reason was the risk of a hostage situation for which the NSG was the logical choice. The NSG performed fine, why are we still dicussing this?


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## hkdas

*NSG withdraws 600 commandos from VVIP duties for counter-terror operations*

According to the new blueprint being worked upon by the elite force, two teams out of the total three of the 11th Special Rangers Group (SRG), stand withdrawn from VVIP security duties and have been tasked to undertake counter-terror operations along with and in assistance of the primary strike units-- the Special Action Group (SAG).

Taking the first step towards gradually reverting to its original role of undertaking counter-terror operations, the NSG has pulled out over 600 commandos from its VVIP security unit and used them for the first time during the recent Pathankot attack.

The plan has been in the making since the last over two years and the terrorist attack on the forward IAF base in Pathankot became the first operation where these black cat commandos made their assault.


According to the new blueprint being worked upon by the elite force, two teams out of the total three of the 11th Special Rangers Group (SRG), stand withdrawn from VVIP security duties and have been tasked to undertake counter-terror operations along with and in assistance of the primary strike units-- the Special Action Group (SAG).

National Security Guard (NSG) commando teams are raised under five primary units, two SAGs manned by officers and jawans from the Army and three SRGs comprising personnel from paramilitary forces.

While each of the two SAGs (51 and 52) are tasked with counter-terror, counter-hijack and hostage rescue operations, the SRGs (11, 12 and 13) were used to render logistical support to the SAGs during such operations and have been primarily deployed for guarding high-risk VVIPs for many years now.

Each SRG has three teams, with over 300 commandos each, and the estimated strength of an entire unit is about 1,000 personnel.

Officials said the Pathankot operation was the first time that the unit was inducted into a full-scale anti-terror operation and select commandos were deployed to undertake door-to-door sanitisation of numerous buildings at the Indian Air Force station that was attacked in the wee hours of January 2.

NSG commanders said the force, which was raised in 1984 for exclusive counter-terror operations but later entrusted with VVIP security duties, has the least number of 15 such protectees under its cover and, after its request to not burden it further in this regard, the government has not given it any additional responsibility in this domain for over two years now.

While one team of the 11th SRG and two units (12 and 13) are still tasked with the security of high-risk dignitaries, commanders of the special federal contingency force foresee a time when even these units will be gradually pulled out of VVIP protection duties.

"Not in the very near future but NSG is on it way to go back to its original charter of being a specialist counter-terror and an exclusive commando force. The last team of the said SRG will also be pulled out sooner than later and prepared for terrorist combat roles," they said.

They said the results of the first experiment at Pathankot have been satisfactory even as these units have been subjected to rigours undertaken by the strike units comprising personnel drawn from the army, with each of its commandos undertaking precision firing, unarmed combat and special tactics course every day of the year.

The plan was mooted in 2012 when NSG commanders, keeping in mind the evolving terrorist attacks scenario across the globe, visualised an event where simultaneous assaults could be launched by them at multiple centres in the country and hence a good number of combat-ready commandos will have to be rushed in different directions.

While the 2008 Mumbai terror attack involved about 400 commandos over a period of three days, over 300 NSG men were deployed for the Pathankot operation that was officially called off in five days.

In what has come as a help, the government has also not given any additional duty in the VVIP security domain and assigned that task to central paramilitary forces like CRPF, CISF and ITBP.

The force's charter states that the primary role of NSG is "to combat terrorism in whatever form it may assume in areas where activity of terrorists assumes serious proportions and the state police and other central police forces cannot cope up with the situation.

"The NSG is a force specially equipped and trained to deal with specific situations and is therefore to be used only in exceptional situations. The force is not designed to undertake the functions of state police forces or other paramilitary forces of the Union of India," it says.

The force is modelled on the pattern of foreign special forces like SAS of the UK and GSG-9 of Germany but has now included the best practises of a few other such elite forces over the years.


*NSG withdraws 600 commandos from VVIP duties for counter-terror operations | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
*
gov. is talking about this since 2008...

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## hkdas

marcos(east)..

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> gov. is talking about this since 2008...


It can't be done overnight as the NSG is protecting a number of high risk personalities BUT they are actively being drawn down. Under the UPA the NSG was protecting >20 VVIPs and was 15 last year, now the number is 11 and the GoI has stated no new VVIPs will ever get NSG protection from here on (hopefully this isn't changed if the Congress ever get into power).

So eventually the NSG will be completly removed from this task but it will be a few more years (perhaps 5) before the VVIPs it currently protects aren't eligable anymore. 

Long term the SRG needs to be wound down to just 1 unit that can be a support entity to the SAG.

The priortiy has to be getting rid of the waste in the NSG (SRG) and modernising the SAG to be one of the best equipped forces in the world- the bar should be set this high, some peicemeal equipment upgrades are not going to cut it. 



The DJANGO said:


> NSG has no authority to operate inside Military bases.I hope you know NSG comes under MHA and not under MOD.There was no hostage situation.Such situations have been taken care of by Ghataks and PARA SF.I know trusting Garuds was too much but so was calling NSG and top ranking military Generals have also said this.


No authority? What do you think this is, Pakistan? The NSG was sent to Pathankot by the GoI on the authority of the NSA, of course they are able to work anywhere in the country- military bases are still part of India are they not?

As for critics, they have all been retired IA generals with their vested interests, the serving IA generals have rubbished all their nonsense and the COAS was himself involved in the decsion to send the NSG. It's a closed chapter, now dissecting it to death isn't going to change anything.


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## hkdas

The DJANGO said:


> NSG has no authority to operate inside Military bases.I hope you know NSG comes under MHA and not under MOD.There was no hostage situation.Such situations have been taken care of by Ghataks and PARA SF.I know trusting Garuds was too much but so was calling NSG and top ranking military Generals have also said this.


no bro...
NSG can operate anywhere in india... doesn't matter if it is a military base or a 7 star hotel. NSG was called in because there was a chance for occurring a hostage situation as there are 3000 families inside the air base. calling NSG after the attack developed into a hostage situation is not a wise choice. MHA, NSA and PM don't want to take risk, so they call in specialized units. there is no question of why NSG was deployed, why not army was deployed... all are fighting for the country. be it special forces of army, marcos of navy, garuds of air force or NSG they are all fighting for the county.. why should we take an unnecessary risk just because of ego??



Abingdonboy said:


> It can't be done overnight as the NSG is protecting a number of high risk personalities BUT they are actively being drawn down. Under the UPA the NSG was protecting >20 VVIPs and was 15 last year, now the number is 11 and the GoI has stated no new VVIPs will ever get NSG protection from here on (hopefully this isn't changed if the Congress ever get into power).
> 
> So eventually the NSG will be completly removed from this task but it will be a few more years (perhaps 5) before the VVIPs it currently protects aren't eligable anymore.
> 
> Long term the SRG needs to be wound down to just 1 unit that can be a support entity to the SAG.
> 
> The priortiy has to be getting rid of the waste in the NSG (SRG) and modernising the SAG to be one of the best equipped forces in the world- the bar should be set this high, some peicemeal equipment upgrades are not going to cut it.


which political leader(except ruling party in central) need NSG security?? mayawati, jayalalitha, and many other won't have any problem even if their complete security is withdrawn.

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> which political leader(except ruling party in central) need NSG security?? mayawati, jayalalitha, and many other won't have any problem even if their complete security is withdrawn.


Neither will I but this is India, these politicans will cry foul and play the "victim" card won't they? Obviously no one needs NSG protection in India, other central forces are being used now to provide this cover- even the NSA has CRPF cover. As time goes by the NSG's protecee list will contract and hopefully will be 0 sooner rather than later.

Whilst we are at it, the Gandhis should also have their SPG cover withdrawn, they can have Z/Y protection if there is a threat to their lives but no more SPG cover.

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## Abingdonboy

The DJANGO said:


> Retired IA Generals have vested interests and who are you then..What are your qualifications to rubbish their opinion?


Vested in the sense that they will always see it from the IA's point of view and always say the IA can do anything. I do not blame them for their view that has been built up asa result of their decades of service in the IA and loyalty to their force.

But the serving IA was involved in the decsion to move the NSG in and supported it:

Pathankot attack: Army defends NSG deployment at airbase | The Indian Express

Deployment of NSG a joint decision, says Army: How security forces reclaimed Pathankot - Firstpost




The DJANGO said:


> Having a Central Home Affair force inside the defence establishment like an airbase gives a bad image about the capability of the SOFs of the AF and Army.


That's your opinion but I don't see it like that. Military bases are part of India, they are thus just as likely to have the NSG deployed as anywhere else. The arbitary designation of the peice of land the operation is being conducted on should not change the force that is used- it is the mission that should and DOES dictate such. 



The DJANGO said:


> You may not know but in J&K only the Ghataks and PARA SF conduct anti hostage operations.
> 
> How would it be if the Army called NSG in Uri?And as far as i know Garuds are qualified for CT and Para Sf for anti hostage situations.


 There were thousands of families and civlians on the base that the GoI feared could be taken hostage hence why the NSG was sent in. They are the country's foremost HR unit perfectly hones, trained and equipped for this task- it is their primary mandate. The PARA (SF) may be be trained in it but it is a secondary capability, the NSG are far more prepared to handle such situations. This is the purpose of having specilised units.

The idea of Ghataks being involved is farcal when you have SF teams from the IAF/IA and NSG to hand and advanced knowledge. Ghataks are good at what they do but they are't SFs and having them take point on this would be a joke and not what they are meant for at all. 


This is all a storm in a teacup. The mission was a success, the NSG did a fine job as did all forces involved- PARA (SF), infantry, Garuds and even a few DSC.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Whilst we are at it, the Gandhis should also have their SPG cover withdrawn, they can have Z/Y protection if there is a threat to their lives but no more SPG cover.


actually this what i don't understand.... SPG protection is for PM, former PM and his close relative.. then how did ghandi family got SPG protection?? who are they actually?? they are just MPs.. sonia is congress party secretry. how did she get SPG pretection?? and vadeera... how the hell he get it?? who is he?? a brother-in-law/son-in-law of two MPs,,,


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> actually this what i don't understand.... SPG protection is for PM, former PM and his close relative.. then how did ghandi family got SPG protection?? who are they actually?? they are just MPs.. sonia is congress party secretry. how did she get SPG pretection?? and vadeera... how the hell he get it?? who is he?? a brother-in-law/son-in-law of two MPs,,,



a) to clarify a common misconception- Vadra actually does not, and never has, get SPG protection. It is only his wife that does.
b) the reason why the Gandhis get SPG protection is that the orginal SPG act was ammended, after Rajiv Gandhi's death, to cover former PMs and their immediate. This is subject to an annual (or semi-annual) review as such they continue to be covered by the SPG. However it has been >20 years now and it doesn't seem like they will be losing it anytime soon(not will they be voluntarily giving it up like MMS's children)- at great cost to the taxpayer. Naturally, it is now a poltical issue, under the UPA they weren't ever going to lose it and now if the NDA does it they will play the "victim" card. At most they should have Z/Y protection (as there may be some threats to them) and cover from CAPFs or their local police but not the SPG.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Vadra actually does not, and never has, get SPG protection. It is only his wife that does.


 Vadra under SPG protection..


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> Vadra under SPG protection..


Not SPG, his personal (private) security staff- many of whom model themselves on the SPG these days and hence the SPG-esque "safari suits". He only gets SPG cover when he travels with a Gandhi (like his wife). He may also get some police cover but 100% he is not covered by SPG.


+see the second pic, when have you ever seen a member of the SPG in a white safari suit? 


++ @hkdas look at Vadra's security-no security passes, no earpecies- both mandatory items for the SPG:

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## Kyeld

Hey guys, I just bought this Palm Frond coverall made in 1990, would anyone be able to tell me what units (I'm guessing paratroopers) were issued this? If anyone has any pictures of this Palm Frond colorway in use, I would be very interested in seeing them.


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## Dandpatta

Kyeld said:


> Hey guys, I just bought this Palm Frond coverall made in 1990, would anyone be able to tell me what units (I'm guessing paratroopers) were issued this? If anyone has any pictures of this Palm Frond colorway in use, I would be very interested in seeing them.


The palm frond pattern was widely seen on the IPKF troops stationed in Sri Lanka.
I have seen the Maratha Light Infantry use these as well. Apart from them, these were widely seen
in other regiments on the field before the current woodland pattern became the 'norm'

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## Kyeld

Dandpatta said:


> The palm frond pattern was widely seen on the IPKF troops stationed in Sri Lanka.
> I have seen the Maratha Light Infantry use these as well. Apart from them, these were widely seen
> in other regiments on the field before the current woodland pattern became the 'norm'



Thank you for the very informative reply! Would you happen to know if there are any active units that still wear overalls in this pattern?


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## danish_vij

Kyeld said:


> Hey guys, I just bought this Palm Frond coverall made in 1990, would anyone be able to tell me what units (I'm guessing paratroopers) were issued this? If anyone has any pictures of this Palm Frond colorway in use, I would be very interested in seeing them.

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## hkdas

marcos in kashmir.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

hkdas said:


> actually this what i don't understand.... SPG protection is for PM, former PM and his close relative.. then how did ghandi family got SPG protection?? who are they actually?? they are just MPs.. sonia is congress party secretry. how did she get SPG pretection?? and vadeera... how the hell he get it?? who is he?? a brother-in-law/son-in-law of two MPs,,,


Sonia Gandhi, Priyanka Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi gets SPG protection because they are related to former PM Rajiv Gandhi.


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## Brahmaputra Mail

mkb95 said:


> para sf



Bro this guy is not an SF operator. He's an instructor in SFTS, Nahan. His name is Kanishka Sharma. Quite a stellar guy. He has the sole authority to teach Pekiti Tirsia Kali to all SF including Marcos, Garuds, Para (SF). Also he has taught NSG and other law enforcement agencies. He was also the first Indian ever to study Shaolin Kung Fu at the Shaolin temple itself.

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## Dandpatta

danish_vij said:


>


Hi - isn't this the picture of the Sikh L.I coming back into Chennai port from Sri Lanka after the pullout? Kindly enlighten.


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## hkdas

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Sonia Gandhi, Priyanka Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi gets SPG protection because they are related to former PM Rajiv Gandhi.



security for former PM's relatives are for few years... it have been 25 years he passed away, still provide protection to his relatives??


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## Brahmaputra Mail

hkdas said:


> security for former PM's relatives are for few years... it have been 25 years he passed away, still provide protection to his relatives??


Afterall it was Rajiv Gandhi's assasination which led to the creation of SPG. May be it's a token of love by SPG.  Besides Congress is still relevant in Rajya Sabha and GOI is desperate to get GST bill passed.



Roybot said:


> Dude don't give out names and details like that, please delete your post.


He's not a secret guy. This guy works with Bollywood actors too. The entire fight sequence of the movie Don was directed by him.

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## hkdas

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Bro this guy is not an SF operator. He's an instructor in SFTS, Nahan. His name is Kanishka Sharma. Quite a stellar guy. He has the sole authority to teach Pekiti Tirsia Kali to all SF including Marcos, Garuds, Para (SF). Also he has taught NSG and other law enforcement agencies. He was also the first Indian ever to study Shaolin Kung Fu at the Shaolin temple itself.


he don't train marcos... marcos trainers have military background and also they kept their training secret. Kanishka Sharma posts photo of training of special forces in his web site. marcos won't allow this.. they always kept civilians away from their training centers..


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## Brahmaputra Mail

hkdas said:


> he don't train marcos... marcos trainers have military background and also they kept their training secret. Kanishka Sharma posts photo of training of special forces in his web site. marcos won't allow this.. they always kept civilians away from their training centers..


He did train them. He himself posted a photo in facebook.

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## hkdas

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> He did train them. He himself posted a photo in facebook.


can you post the link??
even his website didn't mention about marcos..
these are the units he trains..

In India Master Kanishka has introduced it to the Indian Special Forces Training School, Nahan; National Security Guards (NSG) Manesar; Indian Air force Garud S.F; Para Special force, Agra Brigade; Delhi Police S.W.A.T; Chhattisgarh Police - DSP cadre and STF Para Military Forces like 6 Assam Riffles, Special Forces like 21 Para S.F. Unit, 1 Para S.F. Unit Noida Police, U.P, 24 Secure pvt Ltd Reliance Industry Security Group.
Kanishka Sharma | Shifu Kanishka Sharma Official Website | 1st Indian Shaoln Kung Fu Warrior Monk, Movie Action, Fight Choreographer, Army, Special Forces CommandoTrainer



Brahmaputra Mail said:


> He did train them. He himself posted a photo in facebook.


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## Brahmaputra Mail

hkdas said:


> can you post the link??
> even his website didn't mention about marcos..
> these are the units he trains..
> 
> In India Master Kanishka has introduced it to the Indian Special Forces Training School, Nahan; National Security Guards (NSG) Manesar; Indian Air force Garud S.F; Para Special force, Agra Brigade; Delhi Police S.W.A.T; Chhattisgarh Police - DSP cadre and STF Para Military Forces like 6 Assam Riffles, Special Forces like 21 Para S.F. Unit, 1 Para S.F. Unit Noida Police, U.P, 24 Secure pvt Ltd Reliance Industry Security Group.
> Kanishka Sharma | Shifu Kanishka Sharma Official Website | 1st Indian Shaoln Kung Fu Warrior Monk, Movie Action, Fight Choreographer, Army, Special Forces CommandoTrainer
> 
> 
> 
> can you share that FB link??



I am deleting the photo for privacy reason.

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## hkdas

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> I am deleting the photo for privacy reason.


bro, delete the above pics too... 
navy don't like taking photos of their marcos..

@Brahmaputra Mail, thanks for that info buddy... 
BTW, bro, are you trained in pekiti tirsia kali ??

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> security for former PM's relatives are for few years... it have been 25 years he passed away, still provide protection to his relatives??


Like I said, their cover is subject to annual/semi-annual reviews so if the threat perception is still high the SPG cover will remain. However, they should be given Z/Y cover now, having to cover 3 Gandhis with SPG protection (and all the perks this brings) is very costly. 



Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Afterall it was Rajiv Gandhi's assasination which led to the creation of SPG. May be it's a token of love by SPG.  Besides Congress is still relevant in Rajya Sabha and GOI is desperate to get GST bill passed.


SPG was not created after Rajiv's assasination, they were raised in 1985.


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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> Like I said, their cover is subject to annual/semi-annual reviews so if the threat perception is still high the SPG cover will remain. However, they should be given Z/Y cover now, having to cover 3 Gandhis with SPG protection (and all the perks this brings) is very costly.


annual/semi annual reviews of SPG didn't find that ghandi family don't need SPG protection?? what kind of threat sonia and rahul is facing?? they are most valuable assets of anti-nationals.


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> annual/semi annual reviews of SPG didn't find that ghandi family don't need SPG protection?? what kind of threat sonia and rahul is facing?? they are most valuable assets of anti-nationals.


Just by being high profile Indian leaders I assume they face the usual jihadi/LeT/JuD/JeM threat and potentially "Khalsatanis" also (but their actual ability to do so is limited).

But they don't need SPG cover for this- if the NSA is covered by the CRPF then so should they be (or any suitable CAPF unit). 

The fact is, it isn't just the physical cover that is expensive but the fringe benefits that being an SPG protectee brings. All SPG protectees are entitled to government accomadation (for security reasons), "no-frisking" at airports, government pool bullet proof vehicles etc and this is what Priyanka Gandhi- a private citizen- is using.

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## danish_vij

Dandpatta said:


> Hi - isn't this the picture of the Sikh L.I coming back into Chennai port from Sri Lanka after the pullout? Kindly enlighten.


_IPKF Troops during the final withdrawal from the Island_
_transcurrents » The Human Face of the IPKF
_

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## Bornubus

hkdas said:


> there are good possibility that those are SOG of J&K police. even if they are para sf, then what the problem? it is better to use some civilian clothing than wearing uniform and "special forces" tab.
> 
> even RR use mix of civilian dress and combat uniform.
> View attachment 293749
> 
> ^^ marcos in J&K. you can see their combat uniform under that Phiran
> 
> 
> 
> that are using civilian dress... how could a sniper know that the man in green,blue or any other colored dress is an army man?? in the mean time a sniper can identify soldiers in army fatigues much easy,


Nope,J&K SOG don't have Tavor in service, they have few M4s in limited numbers but they mostly use Aks and INSAS with almost every sight including thermal.


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## mkb95



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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


>


Not SF, regulars.

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## Foxbat Alok

Abingdonboy said:


> Not SF, regulars.

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## Armani

Forgive me if these were posted before.


























Thanks to *Randy M*

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## mkb95

marcos









sf or regular?


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## Unknowncommando

mkb95 said:


> marcos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sf or regular?


The 2nd is old pic of para sf and 3 rd is CRPF cobra sniper

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## Abingdonboy

Armani said:


> Forgive me if these were posted before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to *Randy M*


MARCOs during Yemen evacuation operations (OP Rahat).

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## Foxbat Alok

who is the guy in woodland camo





who is the guy in woodland camo


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Foxbat Alok said:


> who is the guy in woodland camo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who is the guy in woodland camo


He's also from MARCOS.


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## Foxbat Alok

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> He's also from MARCOS.


Really !!!! am never seen Marcos in woodland camo & why he is using different camo than others & also he is look like a European or any other country even we can't see this guy in other stock pics so I don't think he is a marcos


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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


> Really !!!! am never seen Marcos in woodland camo & why he is using different camo than others & also he is look like a European or any other country even we can't see this guy in other stock pics so I don't think he is a marcos


100% MARCOs, we had this discussion at the time, he is MARCOs (go to page 360 onwards on this thread to see the discussion). Unfortunatly the picture I remember clarifying this (him with the restof his team in UCP) has been lost:

Indian Special Forces | Page 376


But the point remains, he's MARCOs, why would a foriegn sailor be present on an IN vessel, embedded with Indian SOFs, during a live operation? 



Anyway, some other snaps of MARCOs during Op Rahat:

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Foxbat Alok said:


> Really !!!! am never seen Marcos in woodland camo & why he is using different camo than others & also he is look like a European or any other country even we can't see this guy in other stock pics so I don't think he is a marcos


He's a Marcos officer. This camo is mainly used in J&K.

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## Foxbat Alok

thanks bros @Abingdonboy @BrahmaputraMail

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Capt. Pawan Kumar of 10 Para (SF) succumbs to his injuries during room intervention in EDI, Pampor, J&K. ( According to Kashmir Dispatch)

RIP brave soldier !


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## SUDIP

@Abingdonboy brother 
the casualties of IA is killing me right now, just two days back we have lost two son of soil, right now a young cap of 10th para.Why this rate is so high 3 soldiers in a couple of days 

Isn't the right time for the RRs and PARAs or CRPF deployed in valley should revisit there SOPs. What about introducing APCs in room/building intervention process.


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## SomeRandomSouthIndian

SUDIP said:


> @Abingdonboy brother
> the casualties of IA is killing me right now, just two days back we have lost two son of soil, right now a young cap of 10th para.Why this rate is so high 3 soldiers in a couple of days
> 
> Isn't the right time for the RRs and PARAs or CRPF deployed in valley should revisit there SOPs. What about introducing APCs in room/building intervention process.


I was about to ask the gurus here something similar. What is causing these many casualties even among the most elite of our units? What is being done at the infantry level to prevent loss of life? Very pained seeing brave young men going away so frequently.


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## Brahmaputra Mail

R.I.P. Capt. Pawan. He was just 23 !!

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Another officer of 9 Para SF succumbs to his injuries. R.I.P


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## Brahmaputra Mail

The DJANGO said:


> RIP Capt Pawan!!
> 
> I was mentioning in my last post only that in Kashmir only the PARA SF is called for any hostage or any kind of a threat which seems major and this happened.
> 
> As far as i am concerned the PARA SF has the best room intervention techniques of what i have seen in numerious videos of each SF/SU.
> 
> I do not think there is anything lacking in skill but what i think is that the equipment is either not available to all or they dont use it and they dont have a good helmet.This is the reason casualties happen.At the end of the day casualties happen in any unit that fights a war.You cannot stop them.



This is the building. There are no buildings nearby as cover. Rooftop abseiling also is difficult. The terrorists have clear field view and therefore no blind spots. So the room intervention is difficult for them. The army is now resorting to mortar attack. That's the best thing to do.

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## cerberus

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> This is the building. There are no buildings nearby as cover. Rooftop abseiling also is difficult. The terrorists have clear field view and therefore no blind spots. So the room intervention is difficult for them. The army is now resorting to mortar attack. That's the best thing to do.
> 
> View attachment 294861


Should have used armoured vehicle or tanks 
It was stupidity to take direct infantry action


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## The Magnificent Hsi

Empathy


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## Foxbat Alok

Para sf , dry if repost


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## Foxbat Alok

Pampore encounter





Pampore encounter

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## noksss

Damn there is 3 casualty in PARA SF for this operation that's very high considering the fact that they are part of most of the complex operation in the past decade but didn't had such high casualty. I don't remember PARA guys taking such high casualty in the recent past .Not sure what went wrong but there should be a thorough analysis and course correction required if not we are gonna be at the receiving end in the future also


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## rockstarIN

noksss said:


> Damn there is 3 casualty in PARA SF for this operation that's very high considering the fact that they are part of most of the complex operation in the past decade but didn't had such high casualty. I don't remember PARA guys taking such high casualty in the recent past .Not sure what went wrong but there should be a thorough analysis and course correction required if not we are gonna be at the receiving end in the future also


Indeed . If you take example of last few encounters we had zero casualties.@Abingdonboy what you think of usING NSG instead who are better suited for such door to door operation? One good unit to station there only in case of such hostage situations. Not the search and cordon operations. I think if PARA had protective bullet proof shields, these casualties should have avoided.


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## noksss

rockstarIN said:


> Indeed . If you take example of last few encounters we had zero casualties.@Abingdonboy what you think of usING NSG instead who are better suited for such door to door operation? One good unit to station there only in case of such hostage situations. Not the search and cordon operations. I think if PARA had protective bullet proof shields, these casualties should have avoided.



But Somehow i am not convinced with PARA guys taking 3 casualty man ? As i said they need to thoroughly revisit what went wrong and do a course correction else this is gonna affect the image of this elite troops

How security forces neutralized the Pampore terrorists - Times of India
Encounter in J&K's Pampore ends, three terrorists killed: Army - Times of India


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## Water Car Engineer

Foxbat Alok said:


> Pampore encounter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pampore encounter




Cockroaches roasted.

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## Abingdonboy

SUDIP said:


> @Abingdonboy brother
> the casualties of IA is killing me right now, just two days back we have lost two son of soil, right now a young cap of 10th para.Why this rate is so high 3 soldiers in a couple of days
> 
> Isn't the right time for the RRs and PARAs or CRPF deployed in valley should revisit there SOPs. What about introducing APCs in room/building intervention process.





SomeRandomSouthIndian said:


> I was about to ask the gurus here something similar. What is causing these many casualties even among the most elite of our units? What is being done at the infantry level to prevent loss of life? Very pained seeing brave young men going away so frequently.



One needs to understand the nature of these operations and the Indian Mil's COIN doctrine.

The established COIN doctrine adhered to by Indian forces is to use the minimal force possible- no airpower, no heavy arty- the most they will use is 120mm morters or 40mm grenades.

Remember, this is a war being fought on Indian soil, they cannot destroy each and every building with terrorists in it- at least not as a first resort especially when you don't know if all the innocents are safe. Addtionally a lost of emphasis is placed on capturing these vermin alive, where possible, and thus the result is protracted operations and close quarter combat in many instances. 

One may have become accustomed to the Western SF/military way of fighting in foreign lands- overwhelming force ("shock and awe"), little consideration given to collateral damage, standoff weapon employment etc etc but this is not how the Indian Mil fights. 


Let's not forget- the Security forces evacuated 120+ civlians out from this building which clearly where the target of these rats. 


SF are the tip of the spear and are not superhuman- they are as prone to injury as anyone else. This is a tragic operation but it was a success at the end of the day and is just onf of 1000s of missions SF teams conduct every year. 



Brahmaputra Mail said:


> View attachment 294828
> 
> 
> R.I.P. Capt. Pawan. He was just 23 !!


That's is unfathombly young to be losing your life in this way, RIP warriors.



cerberus said:


> Should have used armoured vehicle or tanks
> It was stupidity to take direct infantry action



Armoured vehicles were used but that doesn't help in room to room fighting. 


The DJANGO said:


> Its a stupid idea to use SF.


Nonsense, this is what the SF lives for.


Of course we are all sad that these scum have taken the lives of some of the best of us but do not forget that they all died as warriors- on their feet and fighting an enemy that seeks to harm their nation, this is how these men would have wanted to go.



rockstarIN said:


> Indeed . If you take example of last few encounters we had zero casualties.@Abingdonboy what you think of usING NSG instead who are better suited for such door to door operation? One good unit to station there only in case of such hostage situations. Not the search and cordon operations. I think if PARA had protective bullet proof shields, these casualties should have avoided.


The NSG would be a good choice also but the IA would never ask for NSG help- the entire state is under their command.

RIP Capt Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF):







So f*cking young


@Levina @anant_s @Vauban @MilSpec @PARIKRAMA @Guynextdoor2 @nair @Taygibay @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @knight11

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> This is the building. There are no buildings nearby as cover. Rooftop abseiling also is difficult. The terrorists have clear field view and therefore no blind spots. So the room intervention is difficult for them. The army is now resorting to mortar attack. That's the best thing to do.
> 
> View attachment 294861


Why not just use snipers? Or if the area is free from civilians - then use gas instead of destroying the building with mortar firing.


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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> RIP Capt Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So f*cking young


Capt.Pawan Kumar was a lucky guy.
He lived his dream. He wanted to be an army officer and kill terrorists - that was his childhood dream.
RIP brave soldier!
You will be missed.

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## anant_s

Abingdonboy said:


> RIP Capt Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF):


Rest in Peace!

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## for truth

sorry for the off topic comment.

@Abingdonboy , do you happen to live on Abingdon road, just off the earls court road in central London?


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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> One needs to understand the nature of these operations and the Indian Mil's COIN doctrine.
> 
> The established COIN doctrine adhered to by Indian forces is to use the minimal force possible- no airpower, no heavy arty- the most they will use is 120mm morters or 40mm grenades.
> 
> Remember, this is a war being fought on Indian soil, they cannot destroy each and every building with terrorists in it- at least not as a first resort especially when you don't know if all the innocents are safe. Addtionally a lost of emphasis is placed on capturing these vermin alive, where possible, and thus the result is protracted operations and close quarter combat in many instances.
> 
> One may have become accustomed to the Western SF/military way of fighting in foreign lands- overwhelming force ("shock and awe"), little consideration given to collateral damage, standoff weapon employment etc etc but this is not how the Indian Mil fights.
> 
> 
> Let's not forget- the Security forces evacuated 120+ civlians out from this building which clearly where the target of these rats.
> 
> 
> SF are the tip of the spear and are not superhuman- they are as prone to injury as anyone else. This is a tragic operation but it was a success at the end of the day and is just onf of 1000s of missions SF teams conduct every year.
> 
> 
> That's is unfathombly young to be losing your life in this way, RIP warriors.
> 
> 
> 
> Armoured vehicles were used but that doesn't help in room to room fighting.
> 
> Nonsense, this is what the SF lives for.
> 
> 
> Of course we are all sad that these scum have taken the lives of some of the best of us but do not forget that they all died as warriors- on their feet and fighting an enemy that seeks to harm their nation, this is how these men would have wanted to go.
> 
> 
> The NSG would be a good choice also but the IA would never ask for NSG help- the entire state is under their command.
> 
> RIP Capt Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So f*cking young
> 
> 
> @Levina @anant_s @Vauban @MilSpec @PARIKRAMA @Guynextdoor2 @nair @Taygibay @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @knight11



The point here is PARA SF has handleded hostage situation earlier with either less casualty or almost no casualty so my question is what makes this operation so complex that the Elite's has to take such a high casualty . Is the Terrorist getting better than our Elite guys ? or Should we revisit some Flaws in our doctrine or Improving the training or not sure what we have to do to have less casualty in such a complex operation


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Why not just use snipers? Or if the area is free from civilians - then use gas instead of destroying the building with mortar firing.



The buildings had too many rooms to hide.



noksss said:


> The point here is PARA SF has handleded hostage situation earlier with either less casualty or almost no casualty so my question is what makes this operation so complex that the Elite's has to take such a high casualty . Is the Terrorist getting better than our Elite guys ? or Should we revisit some Flaws in our doctrine or Improving the training or not sure what we have to do to have less casualty in such a complex operation


There were civilians near the encounter area who were resorting to stone pelting and sloganeering. Chances are these civilians alerted the militants while 9&10 Para (SF) units were attempting room intervention.

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## knight11

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Why not just use snipers? Or if the area is free from civilians - then use gas instead of destroying the building with mortar firing.



Para SF have marksman, what you termed as sniper here, but for the sucessful sniper stike, you need clear line of sight. The situation presented here, made the SF to do close range gun to gun fight.



noksss said:


> The point here is PARA SF has handleded hostage situation earlier with either less casualty or almost no casualty so my question is what makes this operation so complex that the Elite's has to take such a high casualty . Is the Terrorist getting better than our Elite guys ? or Should we revisit some Flaws in our doctrine or Improving the training or not sure what we have to do to have less casualty in such a complex operation



SF are the most capable force in the kashmir, due to vast on battle experience, and knowledge of terrain, tactics, and ground realities. Casualty was high due to the Millitants in the Suicidal Mission, and the advantage of taking cover of the civilians. Be assured, the SF won't mind the demolishment of the whole building with RDX or the Tractor Bomb, if there was no risk of colleteral damage.

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## rockstarIN

knight11 said:


> SF are the most capable force in the kashmir, due to vast on battle experience, and knowledge of terrain, tactics, and ground realities. Casualty was high due to the Millitants in the Suicidal Mission, and the advantage of taking cover of the civilians. Be assured, the SF won't mind the demolishment of the whole building with RDX or the Tractor Bomb, if there was no risk of colleteral damage.




It is all good for RR/Para for any such missions.

But if there is a hostage situation, better to use NSG who is much expertize in CQB. 

Para is 'Army' Unit.


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## knight11

rockstarIN said:


> It is all good for RR/Para for any such missions.
> 
> But if there is a hostage situation, better to use NSG who is much expertize in CQB.
> 
> Para is 'Army' Unit.



Wanna wait for the NSG to come to the scene, evaluate the situation, make planning, and need coordination, firepower to get inside the building to to hand to hand encounter. My friend don't live in dreams, and come to reality, SF have knowledge of the ground situation, experience of the weapons, mines, tactics, group operating in the region to take on this situation. When involved in fight, all rules of judo, karate, kumbhoo, boxing GAYI TEEL LENE, and the one use all fist, knee,stone, dirt, piss, shit are used as the weapon to kill the opponent.

Yes NSG are used for the hostage situation, and not the army because Army don't have the Special armed force right in those areas like Kashmir and when the enemy comes with the superior firepower instead of few AK-47, and granade, SF Para is the Choice not by the rule of the book, but by the Requirement Brother.


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## rockstarIN

knight11 said:


> Wanna wait for the NSG to come to the scene, evaluate the situation, make planning, and need coordination, firepower to get inside the building to to hand to hand encounter. My friend don't live in dreams, and come to reality, SF have knowledge of the ground situation, experience of the weapons, mines, tactics, group operating in the region to take on this situation. When involved in fight, all rules of judo, karate, kumbhoo, boxing GAYI TEEL LENE, and the one use all fist, knee,stone, dirt, piss, shit are used as the weapon to kill the opponent.
> 
> Yes NSG are used for the hostage situation, and not the army because Army don't have the Special armed force right in those areas like Kashmir and when the enemy comes with the superior firepower instead of few AK-47, and granade, SF Para is the Choice not by the rule of the book, but by the Requirement Brother.



Dude everybody knew NSG is not there in Kashmir. Nobody gonna wait for them too. Also is SF everywhere?(no only state police & CRPF) they are readily available in that state upon notice, which you can do in case of NSG too for hostage situations...make a hub there for them just like PARA travels around in Helis whenever they are required.

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## Abingdonboy

for truth said:


> sorry for the off topic comment.
> 
> @Abingdonboy , do you happen to live on Abingdon road, just off the earls court road in central London?


Haha, no my friend, the "Abingdon" my name refers to is the actual town in Oxford not a road.



noksss said:


> The point here is PARA SF has handleded hostage situation earlier with either less casualty or almost no casualty so my question is what makes this operation so complex that the Elite's has to take such a high casualty . Is the Terrorist getting better than our Elite guys ? or Should we revisit some Flaws in our doctrine or Improving the training or not sure what we have to do to have less casualty in such a complex operation



I think this is a bit of strange framing, why assume something has changed in the SF's abilities? All combat vetrans will tell you they are adherants to Murphy's Law " _Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong_". Every situation is unique, all the variables change, all the risk elements are different. Previous success does not guarentee future success. Who knows what the very set of specific circumstances that occured led to this outcome at EDI? One thing I don't doubt is the SF's abilities- they are built for this, this is what they do. As I have said- they carry out 1000s of ops every year, we hear about 4-5, at most?

Look around the world- SFs have "bad days" where they get killed but does that mean their enemy is better than them? What I see is a succesful hostage rescue operation 100+ civlians evacuated and all terrorists sent to hell- to frame this as failure is extremely unfair and a repeat of the post-Pathankot analysis debacle. What defines any military operation is meeting mission objectives and here they were all met, the loss of life is tragic but they died fighting for these objectives.

@Levina

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## Talwar e Pakistan

knight11 said:


> Para SF have marksman, what you termed as sniper here, but for the sucessful sniper stike, you need clear line of sight. The situation presented here, made the SF to do close range gun to gun fight.
> 
> 
> 
> SF are the most capable force in the kashmir, due to vast on battle experience, and knowledge of terrain, tactics, and ground realities. Casualty was high due to the Millitants in the Suicidal Mission, and the advantage of taking cover of the civilians. Be assured, the SF won't mind the demolishment of the whole building with RDX or the Tractor Bomb, if there was no risk of colleteral damage.


I understand, but what about gas? Russia used a similar tactic during the school siege - it resulted in successfully capturing all terrorists without a single military casualty.



Abingdonboy said:


> Look around the world- SFs have "bad days" where they get killed but does that mean their enemy is better than them? What I see is a succesful hostage rescue operation 100+ civlians evacuated and all terrorists sent to hell- to frame this as failure is extremely unfair and a repeat of the post-Pathankot analysis debacle. What defines any military operation is meeting mission objectives and here they were all met, the loss of life is tragic but they died fighting for these objectives.



It was a successful operation indeed - A mission is a mission; if all objectives were completed, then it is successful - but were the 100+ civilians really the target of those militants? 

In the SSG - they are taught that their lives are expendable; this reflects off their motto. "Mann Janbazam" - which can literally mean one who bets with their lives. So sometimes we receive casualties as well. In one case during APS attack, a commando shielded students from hail of fire, so the students could escape, in return he was martyred. Any prolonged fighting or delays could have meant to end for those students.

But bottom line - Soldiers were made and are meant for/to protect citizens of its territory. They are meant to die protecting their citizens.

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## Abingdonboy

Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain
* SF in the below= Security Forces, not Special Forces*

_Almost a year to the date, Archana Masih of Rediff.com carried an interview with me in the online publication. In that I termed the situation in the Valley, 'The Last Mile'. I then went on to explain what exactly this means._

_--------------_

_
'The Last Mile' is simply a situation which is a symbolization of the last stages of conflict stabilization in the military domain; quite different from the political, ideological and social domains. The strength of terrorists is at the lowest ever, the LoC is well dominated to prevent easy calibration by the other side. High profile leadership is missing due to inability to infiltrate without the terrorists facing heavy attrition in the march to the hinterland. Even if successfully infiltrated the ability to strike root is difficult due to all round domination by the SF and intelligence agencies. Terror groups avoid contact with SF and attempt only small scale actions and await their day for a larger deliberate operation, like the current one underway in Pampore. The Army, in particular, is used to high octane stuff; big ticket events, large scale contacts and regular contacts with intelligence inputs. It confirms the high energy levels and the desire to do more; no one in the Army has the patience to sit it out and that is how an Army always is. Everyone is out to kill the last terrorist so that the ugly face of terrorists is eliminated. However, the lesser the terrorist presence and more that the Army tries the results will never be commensurate with statistics of the past. *Take it from me; there will be casualties on the Army side higher in ratio than at the time when there were a larger number of terrorists.*_


_-----------_


_I*n the Last Mile the attention of the Army will also be diverted by other issues. Human rights take bulk of the attention as do political and legal correctness and a host of other issues*. Among many of these issues is something that commanders, staff and junior ranks never faced before; that is *the issue of crowds and flash mobs descending on contact sites and attempting to divert SF attention* or assist the terrorists to somehow get away. Hence, *the greater urgency to finish operations at the earliest*. This has been a phenomenon prevalent in South Kashmir in particular over the last two years or a little more. It instigates the SF and leads to responses where civilians are injured or die and that leads to fresh cycle of violence. Shupiyan and Pulwama districts have been the centers of this. Flash mobs can be unnerving and it is to the credit of the CRPF that it has done its task of crowd control rather well. Given the number of times it does it and the nature of instigation there will be occasions when mistakes will be made leading to loss of lives. This can never be justified but nevertheless will remain a factor among the challenges of the Last Mile.

-----------------

The Pampore encounter is one of its kind; in fact a very rare one. Having witnessed hundreds of these in the Valley, to me it would probably appear as one of the better planned actions by the terrorists. They first targeted the CRPF administrative convoy taking advantage of the weak road protection; inflicted casualties there. They then withdrew either by design or by default to one of the largest buildings in the Pampore built up area. Entrepreneurship Development Institute (EDI) is a five floor building with many people inhabiting it in the late afternoon. The CRPF and 50 RR did well to quickly cordon the building.


---------------


The EDI building is not an easy one to assault to carry out an intervention operation. The CRPF was brave in attempting it but after suffering casualties decided to hand over to the Army’s Victor Force which looks after South Kashmir. The Army has a couple of Special Forces teams dedicated to the two RR Force HQ. Given the circumstances, the nature of objective and the fact that it would be a matter of time before flash mobs moved in to upset the Army and CRPF’s equilibrium the Army decided to use the Special Forces teams to carry out intervention operations. I can say with complete assurance that if I was in the position of Major Gen Arvind Datta (GOC Victor Force) my decision would have been the same. I write with the experience of also having been the Colonel General Staff of Victor Force during the heyday of militancy. The Special Forces teams did a professional job of it. Two officer casualties that they suffered, along with a L/Nk

----------------

Coming to the operation itself, there have been many allegations that intervention was unnecessary and that the building should have been brought down using explosives. In the mind’s eye of all those making these allegations, including veterans, there is this usual picture of a typical Kashmiri house made of brick and cement and perhaps even mud, along with an attached cowshed. This wasn’t the case here. *To wire up and lay the explosives for bringing down the cement and concrete five floor building would have taken fairly long.* In the bargain the flash mobs would have created a major problem. These are the issues impinging on minds of senior officers and their advisers and decisions have then to be taken. The factors are hardly evident to those who may never have had the chance of going through such loops of decision making under stress.

--------------------_

_In the final word, let me state clearly that fatal casualties are most regrettable but they will take place in such operations where* Indian Army officers will always lead from the front*. *That is their ethos; it is a part of their DNA*. Citizens of India must empathize with the travails that their warriors undergo in keeping them safe and express concern about casualties just as they have done in this instance. However, *they must also be aware that in the peculiar security situation of the Last Mile there will be occasions when the last post will have to be played quite often*. Those who have the honor and privilege of donning the Indian Army’s uniform and embellishments are fully aware of it.* It is a measure of their patriotism, their energy and their professionalism that they never flinch from their duties to the Nation.*_

_*Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain's Blog : Encounters in J&K: Reiteration of the 'Last Mile Philosophy'*_



@Levina @PARIKRAMA @rockstarIN @noksss @anant_s @knight11 _
_

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG SAG

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## Abingdonboy

Capt. Pawan Kumar was injured in an operation in Jan 2016 and after recovering was advised to go on sick leave but he chose to decline and remain with his team. He would still be alive had he opted to take a medical absence.


@Levina @PARIKRAMA @Water Car Engineer @anant_s

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## PARIKRAMA

Rip brave heart.. He chose duty over his well being..

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO







NSG

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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain
> * SF in the below= Security Forces, not Special Forces*
> 
> _Almost a year to the date, Archana Masih of Rediff.com carried an interview with me in the online publication. In that I termed the situation in the Valley, 'The Last Mile'. I then went on to explain what exactly this means._
> 
> _--------------_
> 
> _
> 'The Last Mile' is simply a situation which is a symbolization of the last stages of conflict stabilization in the military domain; quite different from the political, ideological and social domains. The strength of terrorists is at the lowest ever, the LoC is well dominated to prevent easy calibration by the other side. High profile leadership is missing due to inability to infiltrate without the terrorists facing heavy attrition in the march to the hinterland. Even if successfully infiltrated the ability to strike root is difficult due to all round domination by the SF and intelligence agencies. Terror groups avoid contact with SF and attempt only small scale actions and await their day for a larger deliberate operation, like the current one underway in Pampore. The Army, in particular, is used to high octane stuff; big ticket events, large scale contacts and regular contacts with intelligence inputs. It confirms the high energy levels and the desire to do more; no one in the Army has the patience to sit it out and that is how an Army always is. Everyone is out to kill the last terrorist so that the ugly face of terrorists is eliminated. However, the lesser the terrorist presence and more that the Army tries the results will never be commensurate with statistics of the past. *Take it from me; there will be casualties on the Army side higher in ratio than at the time when there were a larger number of terrorists.*_
> 
> 
> _-----------_
> 
> 
> _I*n the Last Mile the attention of the Army will also be diverted by other issues. Human rights take bulk of the attention as do political and legal correctness and a host of other issues*. Among many of these issues is something that commanders, staff and junior ranks never faced before; that is *the issue of crowds and flash mobs descending on contact sites and attempting to divert SF attention* or assist the terrorists to somehow get away. Hence, *the greater urgency to finish operations at the earliest*. This has been a phenomenon prevalent in South Kashmir in particular over the last two years or a little more. It instigates the SF and leads to responses where civilians are injured or die and that leads to fresh cycle of violence. Shupiyan and Pulwama districts have been the centers of this. Flash mobs can be unnerving and it is to the credit of the CRPF that it has done its task of crowd control rather well. Given the number of times it does it and the nature of instigation there will be occasions when mistakes will be made leading to loss of lives. This can never be justified but nevertheless will remain a factor among the challenges of the Last Mile.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> The Pampore encounter is one of its kind; in fact a very rare one. Having witnessed hundreds of these in the Valley, to me it would probably appear as one of the better planned actions by the terrorists. They first targeted the CRPF administrative convoy taking advantage of the weak road protection; inflicted casualties there. They then withdrew either by design or by default to one of the largest buildings in the Pampore built up area. Entrepreneurship Development Institute (EDI) is a five floor building with many people inhabiting it in the late afternoon. The CRPF and 50 RR did well to quickly cordon the building.
> 
> 
> ---------------
> 
> 
> The EDI building is not an easy one to assault to carry out an intervention operation. The CRPF was brave in attempting it but after suffering casualties decided to hand over to the Army’s Victor Force which looks after South Kashmir. The Army has a couple of Special Forces teams dedicated to the two RR Force HQ. Given the circumstances, the nature of objective and the fact that it would be a matter of time before flash mobs moved in to upset the Army and CRPF’s equilibrium the Army decided to use the Special Forces teams to carry out intervention operations. I can say with complete assurance that if I was in the position of Major Gen Arvind Datta (GOC Victor Force) my decision would have been the same. I write with the experience of also having been the Colonel General Staff of Victor Force during the heyday of militancy. The Special Forces teams did a professional job of it. Two officer casualties that they suffered, along with a L/Nk
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Coming to the operation itself, there have been many allegations that intervention was unnecessary and that the building should have been brought down using explosives. In the mind’s eye of all those making these allegations, including veterans, there is this usual picture of a typical Kashmiri house made of brick and cement and perhaps even mud, along with an attached cowshed. This wasn’t the case here. *To wire up and lay the explosives for bringing down the cement and concrete five floor building would have taken fairly long.* In the bargain the flash mobs would have created a major problem. These are the issues impinging on minds of senior officers and their advisers and decisions have then to be taken. The factors are hardly evident to those who may never have had the chance of going through such loops of decision making under stress.
> 
> --------------------_
> 
> _In the final word, let me state clearly that fatal casualties are most regrettable but they will take place in such operations where* Indian Army officers will always lead from the front*. *That is their ethos; it is a part of their DNA*. Citizens of India must empathize with the travails that their warriors undergo in keeping them safe and express concern about casualties just as they have done in this instance. However, *they must also be aware that in the peculiar security situation of the Last Mile there will be occasions when the last post will have to be played quite often*. Those who have the honor and privilege of donning the Indian Army’s uniform and embellishments are fully aware of it.* It is a measure of their patriotism, their energy and their professionalism that they never flinch from their duties to the Nation.*_
> 
> _*Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain's Blog : Encounters in J&K: Reiteration of the 'Last Mile Philosophy'*_
> 
> 
> 
> @Levina @PARIKRAMA @rockstarIN @noksss @anant_s @knight11




*Terrorists have refined their tactics and are striking targets where they can cause a high number of casualties, hold out for a long time against the security forces and create media hype

https://defence.pk/threads/changed-tactics-behind-higher-army-casualties-in-encounters.423214/*

Now the question I have is how are we going to counter the free PR these scums are getting by holding on for longer time . Is this not the time to revisit some of the aspects in the doctrine to deny the Free PR these scums are getting by completing the operation quickly ?. By completing the operation quickly we are also reducing the morale of these guys which is generally used as a tool for hiring more

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> I understand, but what about gas? Russia used a similar tactic during the school siege - it resulted in successfully capturing all terrorists without a single military casualty.



I presume you're talking about the Moscow theatre siege of 2002. In that case the gas attack to subdue the enemy proved to be detrimental to hostages too. Every human reacts to a chemical in different scale. One person may require more anesthesia than another person. So the case which was used proved to be futile for some hostages. In any case such gas attack was not possible in this case because it had open windows and holes.

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## Levina

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Even I feel Army should reconsider bifurcating the SF from the regulars of Parachute regt. There was plan to set-up Special Forces regt. in early 90s but the COAS of that time died due to heart-attack. And it was abandoned by the succeding COAS.


More on this issue by Lt.Gen Katoch. He has been very vocal about it throughout. 


Equating Airborne Forces with Special Forces » Indian Defence Review

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Levina said:


> More on this issue by Lt.Gen Katoch. He has been very vocal about it throughout.
> 
> 
> Equating Airborne Forces with Special Forces » Indian Defence Review



I read his book. Great insight into Special Forces.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> I presume you're talking about the Moscow theatre siege of 2002. In that case the gas attack to subdue the enemy proved to be detrimental to hostages too. Every human reacts to a chemical in different scale. One person may require more anesthesia than another person. So the case which was used proved to be futile for some hostages. In any case such gas attack was not possible in this case because it had open windows and holes.


I understand that - but in your case there were no civilians around; the hostages had already been evacuated.


----------



## Brahmaputra Mail

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> I understand that - but in your case there were no civilians around; the hostages had already been evacuated.


You require closed room for gassification. In the school siege that occurred in Russia the terrorists anticipating gas attack broke the windows so that they won't suffocate.

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## Levina

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> I read his book. Great insight into Special Forces.



I haven't. I want to read it....Inshallah will read it soon.


----------



## Brahmaputra Mail

From one of the instructors of Capt. Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF) (Copied from IMA, Dehradun Facebook Page)

Captain Pawan's instructor from the Indian Military Academy remembers one of his special student who went b join his Battalion and then volunteered to join the Special Forces.
It's an actual account that has come straight from his heart.... I stand witness.....Jai Hind
"How's GC pawan?" ,I asked one of the third term GCs, who were to pass out of IMA soon. My bn had a vacancy and I was inquisitive about Pawan,who had opted for Dogras.
"He's good in camps, sir",came the reply.
I had heard about GCs being good in sports, academics,PT,riding etc,but, this was the first time that I'd heard of someone being good in camps. I understood that the GC wanted to convey that Pawan had inexhaustible endurance and was a gritty team man.
On the day of the passing out,I assured his father, a simple man with strong principles, that Pawan was now part of the family of the Seventh and would be looked after like one. His reply was the same, which he gave today, "he's our only child and we've given him to the army. "
Being away from the bn,I learnt that within a few days Pawan had proved his mettle and earned the respect of his men and admiration of his seniors.
Some months later, Pawan info me that he wanted to convert to Para(SF). For the Josh Box that he was, CO wasn't too keen to let go off Pawan. But, he persisted and was soon donning the Balidan badge.
Earlier on 15 Jan this yr, I was looking forward to meet him during the Golden jubilee celebrations.the first sight of pawan took me by surprise. He had a full grown beard, long hair parted in the middle and resembled a typical Kashmiri. .It was a matter of pride to see the GC transform into a seasoned soldier and a hardened paratrooper. I did feel a bit sorry for my Paltan which had to part with such a zealous offr.
Later, while driving back, he narrated about his operational exploits and the close encounters that he had. His Team members in 10 SF frequently remarked how Pawan had a knack for attracting combat situations.
I was filled with awe by the combat experience of the youngster with barely two years of service and even felt trivialized by his op dexterity & achievements.
Pawan mentioned that he wouldn't have opted for SF had I been posted in the Paltan.
A couple of days later, I learnt that he had injured his jaw during an op and was admitted in 92BH, srinagar. He info that the doctors had recommended him for sick leave and would be proceeding to his hometown. But, when I spoke to him a few days later, he told that he was back with his Team in valley and didn't proceed on sick leave.
Early morning today, I got the shattering news of Pawan attaining martyrdom in the Pampore op.
The pathways of destiny do not reflect any better than in Pawan's case.He was destined to lead a life less ordinary. He had cleared NDA SSB for Air Force , but since the vacancies were limited, joined as an army cadet. Subsequently, in fourth term, he again cleared PABT for AF,but there wasn't even a single vac and he continued as an Army cadet. In IMA,he initially opted for Ord, but was guided by his DS from 5 Dogra and opted for the Regt. But, there was no vac for the bn and he eventually came to Seventh. Rest is history.
He was destined to live the life of a true offr and soldier and died like one,leading from the front. He was destined to be a hero and now calmly looks at us from the skies, earning his place with other martyrs. My salute to my trainee,who did so much at the age of 23,which we may never achieve in our lifetime.
Proud of you, buddy. ..

Your instructor and admirer.

@Levina @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Unknowncommando

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> From one of the instructors of Capt. Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF) (Copied from IMA, Dehradun Facebook Page)
> 
> Captain Pawan's instructor from the Indian Military Academy remembers one of his special student who went b join his Battalion and then volunteered to join the Special Forces.
> It's an actual account that has come straight from his heart.... I stand witness.....Jai Hind
> "How's GC pawan?" ,I asked one of the third term GCs, who were to pass out of IMA soon. My bn had a vacancy and I was inquisitive about Pawan,who had opted for Dogras.
> "He's good in camps, sir",came the reply.
> I had heard about GCs being good in sports, academics,PT,riding etc,but, this was the first time that I'd heard of someone being good in camps. I understood that the GC wanted to convey that Pawan had inexhaustible endurance and was a gritty team man.
> On the day of the passing out,I assured his father, a simple man with strong principles, that Pawan was now part of the family of the Seventh and would be looked after like one. His reply was the same, which he gave today, "he's our only child and we've given him to the army. "
> Being away from the bn,I learnt that within a few days Pawan had proved his mettle and earned the respect of his men and admiration of his seniors.
> Some months later, Pawan info me that he wanted to convert to Para(SF). For the Josh Box that he was, CO wasn't too keen to let go off Pawan. But, he persisted and was soon donning the Balidan badge.
> Earlier on 15 Jan this yr, I was looking forward to meet him during the Golden jubilee celebrations.the first sight of pawan took me by surprise. He had a full grown beard, long hair parted in the middle and resembled a typical Kashmiri. .It was a matter of pride to see the GC transform into a seasoned soldier and a hardened paratrooper. I did feel a bit sorry for my Paltan which had to part with such a zealous offr.
> Later, while driving back, he narrated about his operational exploits and the close encounters that he had. His Team members in 10 SF frequently remarked how Pawan had a knack for attracting combat situations.
> I was filled with awe by the combat experience of the youngster with barely two years of service and even felt trivialized by his op dexterity & achievements.
> Pawan mentioned that he wouldn't have opted for SF had I been posted in the Paltan.
> A couple of days later, I learnt that he had injured his jaw during an op and was admitted in 92BH, srinagar. He info that the doctors had recommended him for sick leave and would be proceeding to his hometown. But, when I spoke to him a few days later, he told that he was back with his Team in valley and didn't proceed on sick leave.
> Early morning today, I got the shattering news of Pawan attaining martyrdom in the Pampore op.
> The pathways of destiny do not reflect any better than in Pawan's case.He was destined to lead a life less ordinary. He had cleared NDA SSB for Air Force , but since the vacancies were limited, joined as an army cadet. Subsequently, in fourth term, he again cleared PABT for AF,but there wasn't even a single vac and he continued as an Army cadet. In IMA,he initially opted for Ord, but was guided by his DS from 5 Dogra and opted for the Regt. But, there was no vac for the bn and he eventually came to Seventh. Rest is history.
> He was destined to live the life of a true offr and soldier and died like one,leading from the front. He was destined to be a hero and now calmly looks at us from the skies, earning his place with other martyrs. My salute to my trainee,who did so much at the age of 23,which we may never achieve in our lifetime.
> Proud of you, buddy. ..
> 
> Your instructor and admirer.
> 
> @Levina @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Unknowncommando



From what I know of the SF, to have been deployed to active operations at such a young age speaks volumes of these officers. Not only would they have had to been exceptional soldiers and officers just to get into SF so young but to have then been on actual operations and "team guys" means they were truly outstanding guys- the SF would never allow someone who wasn't ready into operations. The instructor is right- they had done so much at such a young age that most will never do in an entire lifetime.

It still is almost unfathombly young to have done so much and now be dead at such a young age, it is not much older than I am now and it simply blows my mind.

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## KingRaj

RIP Captain Pawan.


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## Abingdonboy

Late Captain Pawan Kumar:

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## KingRaj

Unfortunately for me, I was told by a retired officer that I am ineligible to even try to join Special forces(along with armoured and aviation corps of the army)as I am too tall at 208cm.Unlike in US which provides waivers in many cases to candidates over 203cm, Indian Army has no such system.
Anyways I am pretty sure I would have failed the physicals even if I was shorter.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG POINT MAN (OLD PIC)




TARGET PRACTICE




TASER GUN

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## Levina

*Soo jaaegi kal lipatkar tirange ke saath almari me...deshbhakti hai sahab...taareekhon pe jaagti hai*- last status by Tushar Mahajan


Late capt Tushar Mahajan of 9 para.





























@Abingdonboy 
They were friends.

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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> They were friends.


Being "team guys" in a SF btn and that too on the same deplyoment would ensure they knew each other very well.

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## K M Cariappa

Unknowncommando said:


>


What are they doing with the cap...??


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## Abingdonboy

K M Cariappa said:


> What are they doing with the cap...??


Collecting the spent shells.


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## Foxbat Alok

CISF????


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Foxbat Alok said:


> CISF????


CoBRA QRT


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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


> CISF????





Brahmaputra Mail said:


> CoBRA QRT



BSF ERT


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## Hellfire

KingRaj said:


> Unfortunately for me, I was told by a retired officer that I am ineligible to even try to join Special forces(along with armoured and aviation corps of the army)as I am too tall at 208cm.Unlike in US which provides waivers in many cases to candidates over 203cm, Indian Army has no such system.
> Anyways I am pretty sure I would have failed the physicals even if I was shorter.



Seriously? Then the PBG be disbanded ...!!!! What's you height? (yeah armor and aviation is an issue except Jaguars)


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## KingRaj

hellfire said:


> Seriously? Then the PBG be disbanded ...!!!! What's you height? (yeah armor and aviation is an issue except Jaguars)


Most PBG personnel are around 190cm.
I am 208cm(~6'10").
When I applied for OFB, I had to go through a medical test that all candidates over 200cm had to undertake to check whether they have acromegaly/Marfans or not.


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


>



Is that MARPAT ?


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## Foxbat Alok

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Is that MARPAT ?


MARPAT woodland print camo


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## Unknowncommando

NSG ARMY SF EX(hope i will get some full gear pics from this ex)

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## Foxbat Alok

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 295627
> View attachment 295628
> View attachment 295629
> View attachment 295630
> View attachment 295631
> View attachment 295632
> NSG ARMY SF EX(hope i will get some full gear pics from this ex)
> View attachment 295633


Nice pic 
are you a NSF commando ???


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## combat diver

I have some pics of MARCOS in kashmir but i am unable to upload them.. can anyone help?


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## Unknowncommando

Foxbat Alok said:


> Nice pic
> are you a NSF commando ???


lol bro not at all.











MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS

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## combat diver

Unknowncommando said:


> lol bro not at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARCOS





Unknowncommando said:


> lol bro not at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARCOS


they look hell awesome..the bearded guy in the first pic is just out of the world... THE CROCS OF WULAR

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 295627
> View attachment 295628
> View attachment 295629
> View attachment 295630
> View attachment 295631
> View attachment 295632
> NSG ARMY SF EX(hope i will get some full gear pics from this ex)
> View attachment 295633


All old pics 

No pics from the US SF-NSG exercise from last year brother?


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## combat diver

please post some more pics of MARCOS.. in kashmir.

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## Abingdonboy

SPG's Counter Assualt Team (CAT) pictured during PM Modi's visit to Chhattisgarh:

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## mkb95



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF just a normal day in kashmir




PARA SF combat divers
hope i will get some pics of them underwater with weapons
@Abingdonboy naah bro it is very hard to find pics of such an secretive ex.

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## combat diver

hey bro are u sure they are para sf because the style of saluting is of navy.


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## mkb95

from Exercise ISABMARES

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## Abingdonboy

(combat diver badge)

MARCOs:

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## noksss

Shailesh Gaur
Took 6 Bullets-did not leave post during #PathankotAttack
Back to Work now

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS drill on IND VIRAAT OLD PIC




A fully loaded commando
this type of JAWANS must be dudes and inspiration for other commandos in company.




GARUD COMMANDO




parkour

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## Armani

Abingdonboy said:


>





Unknowncommando said:


>



These Oakley-type gloves seem to have caught on with the SFs finally. Also, they seem to look desi.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG







GHATAK
@combat diver bro u cant keep hands straight underwater.They are PARAS 100%.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


Hmmm, interesting, these are IA but not PARA (SF) as they only use the MARS RDS for their Tavors, I didn't realise the Ghataks were getting the Tavor too.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 296665
> View attachment 296665
> View attachment 296666


That Sherpa is such a damn beast!!

@anant_s @Levina @Water Car Engineer @Nilgiri

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## Foxbat Alok

View attachment 296667
View attachment 296668

GHATAK[/QUOTE]
nice ghatak with Tar-21 + mepro sight

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF TOYS

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 296703
> View attachment 296704
> View attachment 296705
> View attachment 296706
> View attachment 296708
> 
> PARA SF TOYS


The PARA (SF) should just get the 7.62mm Negev (like the IAF and IN SF) to complete the Israeli touch 

+ you're the man @Unknowncommando bro, you make this thread worth visiting- keep up the good work!

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## Unknowncommando

Their identity



the beast



SAG



BUS INTERVENTION




SNIPE THE BA$TARD



READY FOR THE NBC WAR




THE LAST MAN IN ROOM INTERVENTION TEAM CARRIES THE SIG TO KEEP EYE ON ENEMY IN MEDIUM RANGE OUTSIDE THE ROOM WHILE OTHERS BREACH THE HOUSE




NSG COMMANDOS

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> BUS INTERVENTION


Think this would be 52 SAG (Counter Hijack)


+ @Unknowncommando what you said about the last man in a room intervention having the SIG is true. Post-26/11 the NSG equipped 1-2 operators per HIT (an assualt team- made up 8-10 guys) with such assualt rifles to ensure the HITs could tackle a wider scope of engagement profiles and threats. Assualt elements now also have automatic shotguns for the breachers.

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## mkb95



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## Indika

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 296665
> View attachment 296666
> 
> NSG
> View attachment 296667
> View attachment 296668
> 
> GHATAK
> @combat diver bro u cant keep hands straight underwater.They are PARAS 100%.


Can you also please erase the name as well.

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## mkb95

3 teams of NSG have been deployed in Gandhinagar and 1 team is being deployed to secure Somnath temple

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## Foxbat Alok

Bcoz we dont exist , that u can : para




Spg



nsg




Garud





Spg

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## mkb95

best thing u will see
marcos after win against bangladesh





ahh man,feels so good to see them enjoying themselves.

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## Foxbat Alok

mkb95 said:


> lol bro these are not from military . i know the the middle one ..he is my frnd ...


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## mkb95

The founder Commanding officer of 5 PARA, Brig K G Pitre, AVSM* (Retd), a 93 year old Veteran did Para sailing during 54th Raising Day celebrations of 5 PARA.










@Abingdonboy @*[URL='https://defence.pk/members/parikrama.153263/']PARIKRAMA*[/URL]

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF) and Punjab SWAT train together:

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## Abingdonboy

NSG deployed to Somnath:


































Two teams from Mumbai were airlifted after inputs of 10 Pakistani terrorists ilfiltrating into India.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Foxbat Alok

these Punjab swat are looks like amateurs


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## Jamwal's

*Ghatak*

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## Foxbat Alok

Iaf garud during aero india 2011 inside a c-130

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## Jamwal's

Garud


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Brigadier SS Shekhawat 

Former CO of 21 Para (SF)

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## Abingdonboy

IAF Garuds in multicam:







Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Former CO of 21 Para (SF)


Former? What is his posting now?

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> Former? What is his posting now?


He has been promoted to the rank of Brigadier. Some other assignment now.


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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> He has been promoted to the rank of Brigadier. Some other assignment now.


I know he is not a Brig. General, so that means he isn't the CO of 21 PARA (SF) anymore?


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> I know he is not a Brig. General, so that means he isn't the CO of 21 PARA (SF) anymore?


He was the CO during Op Summer Storm in 2009. I am sure he isn't the CO anymore.

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## Foxbat Alok

Marcos

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## Abingdonboy

PM's motorcade:

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=850035265118873




NSG PARKOUR (basic training)
@Jamwal's @Foxbat Alok old pics yaaro.Post some new stuff.


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## Dandpatta

Unknowncommando said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=850035265118873
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG PARKOUR
> @Jamwal's @Foxbat Alok old pics yaaro.Post some new stuff.


^^^ With due respects, I do not think this is even an ounce of parkour. It is standard wall scaling done by military / para military forces all around the world.

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## Unknowncommando

Dandpatta said:


> ^^^ With due respects, I do not think this is even an ounce of parkour. It is standard wall scaling done by military / para military forces all around the world.


yeah its basic i forgot to mension that.anyways thanks


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## Jamwal's

OSV 96 - Garud

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## Abingdonboy

PM's Motorcade:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

Garuds:

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## Abingdonboy

Garuds:














































Cpl Singh (died in the line of duty during Pathankot):

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## Abingdonboy

Garuds:

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## KingRaj



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## Unknowncommando

desert scorpions 9 th PARA SF
















CORNER SHOT







TRAINING ON BMW BULLET PROOF VEHICLES
NSG

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## Unknowncommando

METRO DRILL










TASER GUN




NSG COMMANDOS

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## Jamwal's

*Mumbai Police Force 1*

*IPLEX LT in service with Force 1*

IPLEX LX/ IPLEX LT - Olympus Lightweight Industrial Videoscopes

























*Also,* *ZEISS SIGHT are being common in both Army and Police*

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## Abingdonboy

Jamwal's said:


> *Mumbai Police Force 1*
> 
> *IPLEX LT in service with Force 1*
> 
> IPLEX LX/ IPLEX LT - Olympus Lightweight Industrial Videoscopes
> 
> View attachment 300213
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 300214
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 300215
> 
> 
> *Also,* *ZEISS SIGHT are being common in both Army and Police*
> View attachment 300216


Please pose this here sir:

INDIAN Emergency Services (POLICE, AMBULANCE,FIRE) | Page 66

They aren't Special Forces but special police units


----------



## Brahmaputra Mail

*Army Major Killed in Encounter with Militants in Manipur*


An Army officer was killed in an encounter with Zeliangrong United Front (ZUF) militants in Tamenglong, Manipur on Wednesday.

Army officials said one militant was also killed in an encounter, which took place during a combing operation undertaken by the Rashtriya Rifles and Special Forces personnel.

The deceased officer has been identified as Major Amit Deswal of 21 Para Special Forces.

Major Deswal, who hailed from Haryana’s Jhajjar district, was evacuated from the encounter site after receiving a gunshot wound to the stomach, but succumbed to his injuries.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Levina @Unknowncommando






R.I.P Major Amit Deswal

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> *Army Major Killed in Encounter with Militants in Manipur*
> 
> 
> An Army officer was killed in an encounter with Zeliangrong United Front (ZUF) militants in Tamenglong, Manipur on Wednesday.
> 
> Army officials said one militant was also killed in an encounter, which took place during a combing operation undertaken by the Rashtriya Rifles and Special Forces personnel.
> 
> The deceased officer has been identified as Major Amit Deswal of 21 Para Special Forces.
> 
> Major Deswal, who hailed from Haryana’s Jhajjar district, was evacuated from the encounter site after receiving a gunshot wound to the stomach, but succumbed to his injuries.
> 
> @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Levina @Unknowncommando
> 
> View attachment 300326
> 
> 
> R.I.P Major Amit Deswal


Damn, another SF operator lost in 2016.

RIP warrior.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> Damn, another SF operator lost in 2016.
> 
> RIP warrior.


I hear this was an ambush operation.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Maybe a bit random but does anyone have any idea what could be in these cases the SPG detail of the PM carries:








I noticed this recently that behind the PM's immediate close protection team there are SPG guys carrying these cases. Obviously they are different to the collpased Kevlar sheild the 1-2 of the inner-most CPT carry:








@PARIKRAMA @ni8mare @Spectre @MilSpec @nair @Guynextdoor2 @Ankit Kumar 002 @IndoCarib @Water Car Engineer @acetophenol @Kinetic @Brahmaputra Mail @Levina @ranjeet @Parul @Taygibay @Koovie @janon @sathya @punit @skyisthelimit @Dash @Dandpatta @SR-91 @hinduguy @JanjaWeed @WAJsal @AUSTERLITZ @scorpionx @Oscar @Blue Marlin @Desertfalcon @SrNair @The_Sidewinder @Bombaywalla @Roybot @kbd-raaf @C130 @Stephen Cohen @noksss @Sky lord

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## Guynextdoor2

Abingdonboy said:


> Maybe a bit random but does anyone have any idea what could be in these cases the SPG detail of the PM carries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed this recently that behind the PM's immediate close protection team there are SPG guys carrying these cases. Obviously they are different to the collpased Kevlar sheild the 1-2 of the inner-most CPT carry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PARIKRAMA @ni8mare @Spectre @MilSpec @nair @Guynextdoor2 @Ankit Kumar 002 @IndoCarib @Water Car Engineer @acetophenol @Kinetic @Brahmaputra Mail @Levina @ranjeet @Parul @Taygibay @Koovie @janon @sathya @punit @skyisthelimit @Dash



Doesn't look like the 'football' to me.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> Maybe a bit random but does anyone have any idea what could be in these cases the SPG detail of the PM carries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed this recently that behind the PM's immediate close protection team there are SPG guys carrying these cases. Obviously they are different to the collpased Kevlar sheild the 1-2 of the inner-most CPT carry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PARIKRAMA @ni8mare @Spectre @MilSpec @nair @Guynextdoor2 @Ankit Kumar 002 @IndoCarib @Water Car Engineer @acetophenol @Kinetic @Brahmaputra Mail @Levina @ranjeet @Parul @Taygibay @Koovie @janon @sathya @punit @skyisthelimit @Dash


May be it's the Indian football ? I understand we never had our own football earlier, but may be there's a policy change since 2014 ?

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## Abingdonboy

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Doesn't look like the 'football' to me.


Oh god, I'm not sure if we want to start the "football" speculation again. Some drama queens were trying to convince themselves that's what that skinny collapsed kevlar sheild was.

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## Guynextdoor2

Abingdonboy said:


> Oh god, I'm not sure if we want to start the "football" speculation again. Some drama queens were trying to convince themselves that's what that skinny collapsed kevlar sheild was.



You know the football is probably around somewhere. With nuclear triad in place, that's the logical thing to expect.

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## Ankit Kumar 002

Abingdonboy said:


> Maybe a bit random but does anyone have any idea caould be in these cases the SPG detail of the PM carries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed this recently that behind the PM's immediate close protection team there are SPG guys carrying these cases. Obviously they are different to the collpased Kevlar sheild the 1-2 of the inner-most CPT carry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PARIKRAMA @ni8mare @Spectre @MilSpec @nair @Guynextdoor2 @Ankit Kumar 002 @IndoCarib @Water Car Engineer @acetophenol @Kinetic @Brahmaputra Mail @Levina @ranjeet @Parul @Taygibay @Koovie @janon @sathya @punit @skyisthelimit @Dash



See, I happened to talk to some policeman who were a part of convoy of a politician here, and they carried bags. I did inquire and they said, it contained a spare set of clothes for the politician and some emergency medicines....

I know it is totally unrelated, but thought its worth sharing here.

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## Abingdonboy

Ankit Kumar 002 said:


> See, I happened to talk to some policeman who were a part of convoy of a politician here, and they carried bags. I did inquire and they said, it contained a spare set of clothes for the politician and some emergency medicines....
> 
> I know it is totally unrelated, but thought its worth sharing here.


I guess that makes sense except in the PM's case he has a medical team (with doctors) who follow him around wherever he goes and they haul their own supplies so it would be odd that the SPG were carrying around medicines.

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## Ankit Kumar 002

Abingdonboy said:


> I guess that makes sense except in the PM's case he has a medical team (with doctors) who follow him around wherever he goes and they haul their own supplies so it would be odd that the SPG were carrying around medicines.



Yes of course, I think it more about documents. Or maybe clothes only. 
You see PM sleeps on the flight while travelling, outside India and even while campaigning. 

So in all probability clothes, or some documents....or may be some kind of Gujarati snacks ... you see he needs a lots of energy for the tasks he does.

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## Abingdonboy

Ankit Kumar 002 said:


> Yes of course, I think it more about documents. Or maybe clothes only.
> You see PM sleeps on the flight while travelling, outside India and even while campaigning.
> 
> So in all probability clothes, or some documents....or may be some kind of Gujarati snacks ... you see he needs a lots of energy for the tasks he does.


I agree, they could be a whole number of perfectly trivial things, clothes are unlikely though- this was during the inaguration of the Maritime summit in Mumbai where the PM merely visited for a few hours, there would be no need for there to be a change of clothes to hand especially not with his motorcade parked up the whole time. If it were clothes they could have remained in the motrocade.

Whatever is in the cases it is something that the PM would need to hand at a moment's notice.

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## noksss

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> *Army Major Killed in Encounter with Militants in Manipur*
> 
> 
> An Army officer was killed in an encounter with Zeliangrong United Front (ZUF) militants in Tamenglong, Manipur on Wednesday.
> 
> Army officials said one militant was also killed in an encounter, which took place during a combing operation undertaken by the Rashtriya Rifles and Special Forces personnel.
> 
> The deceased officer has been identified as Major Amit Deswal of 21 Para Special Forces.
> 
> Major Deswal, who hailed from Haryana’s Jhajjar district, was evacuated from the encounter site after receiving a gunshot wound to the stomach, but succumbed to his injuries.
> 
> @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Levina @Unknowncommando
> 
> View attachment 300326
> 
> 
> R.I.P Major Amit Deswal



RIP braveheart its looking like a bad year for PARA SF with lots of casualty . Army should take extra caution in not loosing any more men

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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> RIP braveheart its looking like a bad year for PARA SF with lots of casualty . Army should take extra caution in not loosing any more men


This is the cost of war, if not the army who else is going to take on those animals? As the tip of the spear it follows that the SF will always be the most exposed to danger.

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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> This is the cost of war, if not the army who else is going to take on those animals? As the tip of the spear it follows that the SF will always be the most exposed to danger.



Definitely buddy but we always wish there is no causality whenever there is OP but its the cost of war the IA has to pay . Almost all the SF's around the world faced many causality but no other SF's in the world is more exposed and engaged continuously in OP's for such a long time as IA SF were

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## noksss

*Battling bad weather and tough terrain, the Army today airlifted the body of Major Amit Deswal out of the thick jungles in Manipur's Tamenglong district, where the special forces officer was killed in an operation against terrorists in Wednesday.*

The 35-year-old Major of the 21 Paras was shot twice on Wednesday and the Army made multiple attempts till last light yesterday to evacuate the wounded officer by helicopter out of the area. He could only be moved to a hilltop nearby, where he died late last night.

The body of the major was flown to Jorhat today from where it will then be taken to Surheti in Haryana's Jhajjar district, his home town.


Major Deswal is survived by his parents, his wife and a three-year-old son. 

The 21 Paras had at about 3.30 am on Wednesday, launched an operation against a splinter group of Naga insurgents who are not part of a peace process with the government. They had Intelligence that the group had camped 30 km off the National Highway 36 in the heavily forested area.

*At about 7 am, Major Deswal killed one terrorist and the special forces commandos seized an AK -47 gun. But the other terrorists managed to escape.

The Major and his team tracked them down again at about 4 pm in the evening about 20 km away from the highway. In the gun-battle that followed, Major Deswal was shot twice in the pelvis.*

*Major Deswal had won a commando dagger after topping his course. He was commissioned in 2006 in the Artillery and then volunteered for the Para Special Forces.*


http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/for-...m-thick-jungles-1395477?pfrom=home-topstories

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## MilSpec

Mags , mags and more mags if it was me. 



Abingdonboy said:


> Maybe a bit random but does anyone have any idea what could be in these cases the SPG detail of the PM carries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed this recently that behind the PM's immediate close protection team there are SPG guys carrying these cases. Obviously they are different to the collpased Kevlar sheild the 1-2 of the inner-most CPT carry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PARIKRAMA @ni8mare @Spectre @MilSpec @nair @Guynextdoor2 @Ankit Kumar 002 @IndoCarib @Water Car Engineer @acetophenol @Kinetic @Brahmaputra Mail @Levina @ranjeet @Parul @Taygibay @Koovie @janon @sathya @punit @skyisthelimit @Dash @Dandpatta @SR-91 @hinduguy @JanjaWeed @WAJsal @AUSTERLITZ @scorpionx @Oscar @Blue Marlin @Desertfalcon @SrNair @The_Sidewinder @Bombaywalla @Roybot @kbd-raaf @C130 @Stephen Cohen @noksss @Sky lord

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## Abingdonboy

MilSpec said:


> Mags , mags and more mags if it was me.


Hmmm, an interesting thought, the amount of mags those guys could be carrying with those cases would be VAST (thousands of rounds) but I am rather doubtful sir. The role of the Close Protection Team (CPT) is not to have sustained firefights that would require such enourmous quantities of spare ammunition. The Counter Assualt Team (CAT) are the ones who are meant to be armed to the gills as their role is to step in, allow the CPT to break contact and evacuate the PM during an attack. 


But then, you could easily be on the money.

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## Unknowncommando

Para sf and nsg joint ex








Desert scorpion













Para sf atv




PARA SF AND GARUDS JOINT EX

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## Jamwal's

4th Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## mkb95

*marcos*

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## sid426

Jamwal's said:


> 4th Para SF
> 
> View attachment 300802




This camo is very much similar to the earlier version of Pak army camo.

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## Unknowncommando

Para sf

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## Jamwal's

These Pics of Capt Pawan martyr Para SF were removed during server reset.

Also,AN/PEQ 2- IR Laser Illuminator on Tavor

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## Water Car Engineer

Para/SF quad bike in action. Ex Shatrujeet, Rajasthan.

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds in Rajasthan Desert.

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## Armani

Water Car Engineer said:


> quad bike



Looks 6x6 to me.

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## Jamwal's

That's Polaris 6×6 ATV and Desert scorpions.







Also in service with Australian Armed forces

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## Unknowncommando

21 st PARA SF




NSG




Garuds (better quality than the previously posted one)

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## Armani

Unknowncommando said:


> Garuds (better quality than the previously posted one)



Please replace those Gypsies!!


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## bloo

Armani said:


> Please replace those Gypsies!!


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## Unknowncommando

Para SF Joint ex with Bangladesh commandos




PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


BD military?

+ who is the kid with glasses and an Ipod headphone in his ear hanging out with SFs?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> BD military?
> 
> + who is the kid with glasses and an Ipod headphone in his ear hanging out with SFs?



That "kid" is a BD commando .. Old enough to be ...... .. And much more accomplished than some expat indian kid such as yourself.

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## #hydra#

Dawoods new photo is out,hope it will help our special forces.


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## Abingdonboy

#hydra# said:


> Dawoods new photo is out,hope it will help our special forces.


For that this GoI is going to have to show they possess some b@lls that they have failed to convince me of thus far.

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos
Bad@$$ as always

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF sniper




NSG

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## Abingdonboy

Regarding


Abingdonboy said:


> Maybe a bit random but does anyone have any idea what could be in these cases the SPG detail of the PM carries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed this recently that behind the PM's immediate close protection team there are SPG guys carrying these cases. Obviously they are different to the collpased Kevlar sheild the 1-2 of the inner-most CPT carry:


https://defence.pk/threads/indian-special-forces.43257/page-451#post-8242133






looking at the case on the left, hmmm:








> _DRDO has successfully developed briefcase-type S-Band SATCOM terminals for voice/fax/data services using indigenous technology. The terminals operate using the MSS transponder of indigenous GSAT-2 satellite and the central hub station. The weight of each terminal is approximately 10 kg and it can be deployed in less than a minute making it highly suitable for providing tactical communication from remote areas. The terminals have been developed keeping in view the tactical satellite communication requirements at S-band frequency, which has been exclusively allocated by ITU to India and few other select countries. Similar systems, like INMARSAT, available elsewhere operate at different frequency bands and are based on foreign satellites and hub stations, which make them highly susceptible to monitoring and denial of service at critical times. The system can find significant usage in the civilian sector as well as for providing emergency communication in disaster management_



It's just a thought.

@Kinetic @PARIKRAMA @knight11 @MilSpec @nair @sathya @Ankit Kumar 002 @Levina @Parul @Roybot @Nilgiri @danish_vij @Stephen Cohen @acetophenol @Water Car Engineer @SrNair @ito @bloo

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## Ankit Kumar 002

Abingdonboy said:


> Regarding
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/indian-special-forces.43257/page-451#post-8242133
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looking at the case on the left, hmmm:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just a thought.
> 
> @Kinetic @PARIKRAMA @knight11 @MilSpec @nair @sathya @Ankit Kumar 002 @Levina @Parul @Roybot @Nilgiri @danish_vij @Stephen Cohen @acetophenol @Water Car Engineer @SrNair @ito @bloo



Now that's a bada$$ thing. Not only that, it may contain portable jammer too.
But this makes sense... but who knows it might be simple daily things.

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## Foxbat Alok

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 301757
> View attachment 301758
> View attachment 301759
> View attachment 301760
> View attachment 301761
> View attachment 301762
> 
> Marcos
> Bad@$$ as always


look like screenshots from any video ...
so can u share the link


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## Unknowncommando

Foxbat Alok said:


> look like screenshots from any video ...
> so can u share the link














PARA SF

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## Jamwal's

Garud

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## Kushal Sinha

THE PARA 
THE RED DEVILS 
FOR MORE PICS FOLLOW OUR PAGE ON FACEBOOK - INDIAN DEFENCE RESEARCH ADVANCEMENTS 
MORE PICS COMING SOON

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs during "Exercise Prasthan"- a simulated terror attack on an oil rig in the Indian ocean.

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## Omega007

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> That "kid" is a BD commando .. Old enough to be ...... .. And much more accomplished than some expat indian kid such as yourself.



You need not be so aggressive all the time,you know that bud??Just saying.

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## Armani

Omega007 said:


> You need not be so aggressive all the time,you know that bud??Just saying.



He's not aggresive...just very insecure.

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF 
Sniper team at last

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## Star Wars

Anyone know anything about this "Phantom Commandos" ?


_*Cool add below*_

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## Foxbat Alok

Star Wars said:


> Anyone know anything about this "Phantom Commandos" ?
> 
> 
> _*Cool add below*_


MAJ PRAPHUL KUMAR BHARDWAJ, 12 PARA (SF)..
he also received shaurya chakra in 2015


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## Unknowncommando

Para SF
They too adopted the Garud standard camo

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## mkb95

10th Para SF "The Desert Scorpion"




para








marcos

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## Jamwal's

mkb95 said:


> 10th Para SF "The Desert Scorpion"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> para
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marcos


3rd pic is of late Col Santosh Mahadik.

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## Jamwal's

2nd Para SF (RAF Chinook) - Sierra Leone, Op Khukri 2000

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## Killswitch

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 302856
> View attachment 302857
> View attachment 302858
> 
> Para SF
> They too adopted the Garud standard camo




Heres hoping this is the new standard camo for the IA.

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF

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## mkb95

Jamwal's said:


> 2nd Para SF (RAF Chinook) - Sierra Leone, Op Khukri 2000
> 
> 
> View attachment 302916


this has to be the most successful op. of paras.
some other photos
















this describes the success
The success of Op KHUKRI was felt not merely in its tactical terms. It gave the RUF its worst defeat in recent history and at the same time gave a tremendous boost to the UNAMSIL forces in particular and to the UN as a whole. The detractors of the UN were silenced and the potential of this noble institution was once again displayed. The greatest reward for the Indian Peacekeepers was the rapturous reception given to them by the people of Daru as they came triumphantly back from battle. It was the welcome of a long suffering and desperate people who understood that there were people in this world who would shed their blood for them. Perhaps, that is why they helped build the KHUKRI Memorial in Daru barracks overlooking the Moa River.
source- http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-unamsil-opkhukri.html





marcos



Jamwal's said:


> 3rd pic is of late Col Santosh Mahadik.


another photo of the him with his son.





@Abingdonboy 
*@Stephen Cohen @Spectre @[URL='https://defence.pk/members/water-car-engineer.32471/']Water Car Engineer[/URL]*
https://defence.pk/members/abingdonboy.28303/

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## Amaa'n

Abingdonboy said:


> BD military?
> 
> + who is the kid with glasses and an Ipod headphone in his ear hanging out with SFs?


Ear plugs man ear plugs.....last thing we need is going back to bed with TIHL......



Jamwal's said:


> Garud
> 
> View attachment 302207


I know everyone has their personal preference where they want to have there secondary.....much prefered to have on chest or Thigh Side......i dont understand the gun on front....a bit


----------



## Jamwal's

mkb95 said:


> this has to be the most successful op. of paras.
> some other photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this describes the success
> The success of Op KHUKRI was felt not merely in its tactical terms. It gave the RUF its worst defeat in recent history and at the same time gave a tremendous boost to the UNAMSIL forces in particular and to the UN as a whole. The detractors of the UN were silenced and the potential of this noble institution was once again displayed. The greatest reward for the Indian Peacekeepers was the rapturous reception given to them by the people of Daru as they came triumphantly back from battle. It was the welcome of a long suffering and desperate people who understood that there were people in this world who would shed their blood for them. Perhaps, that is why they helped build the KHUKRI Memorial in Daru barracks overlooking the Moa River.
> source- http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-unamsil-opkhukri.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marcos
> 
> 
> another photo of the him with his son.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy
> *@Stephen Cohen @Spectre @Water Car Engineer*


In the above pics,the officer is Col Khushal Thakur (Retd Brigadier) CO 18 th Grenadiers.

Before moving to UN, the same unit was involved in successful siege and capture of Tololing Peak.

PVC Yogendra Yadav is still serving as a instructor at Jabalpur.



balixd said:


> Ear plugs man ear plugs.....last thing we need is going back to bed with TIHL......
> 
> 
> I know everyone has their personal preference where they want to have there secondary.....much prefered to have on chest or Thigh Side......i dont understand the gun on front....a bit


Tavor + UBGL

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 302856
> View attachment 302857
> View attachment 302858
> 
> Para SF
> They too adopted the Garud standard camo





Killswitch said:


> Heres hoping this is the new standard camo for the IA.


The PARA (SF) have been playing around with lots of camos the last few years; MARPAT (woodland), the 10 PARA (SF)'s orangish camo (as seen above), UCP (also tested/seen with 10 PARA) as well as the standard IA camo.

I do agree that the Garud's digicam is perhaps the best looking of all of them and I would be very pleased to see it adopted across the entire Indian Mil with the UCP being used for naval ops (by MARCOs). It still baffles me how the IA doesn't have a desert camo to this day nor do they seem interested in one.



mkb95 said:


> this has to be the most successful op. of paras.


That we know about

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## GORKHALI

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> That "kid" is a BD commando .. Old enough to be ...... .. And much more accomplished than some expat indian kid such as yourself.


Well you don't need just to reply every other post ,specially when in comes from a senior member. He doesn't mean to insult any nationality ,he just raised the question .A glass with I Pod headphone in shooting range is not common atleast in India army ranges.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

GORKHALI said:


> Well you don't need just to reply every other post ,specially when in comes from a senior member. He doesn't mean to insult any nationality ,he just raised the question .A glass with I Pod headphone in shooting range is not common atleast in India army ranges.





GORKHALI said:


> Well you don't need just to reply every other post ,specially when in comes from a senior member. He doesn't mean to insult any nationality ,he just raised the question .A glass with I Pod headphone in shooting range is not common atleast in India army ranges.



Dude I've seen Indian troops/commandos using computer headphones and even regular headphones on wireless sets.

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## GORKHALI

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude I've seen Indian troops/commandos using computer headphones and even regular headphones on wireless sets.


I have seen many things like troops wearing salwaar kameez or putting charpayee as obstacle.All am talking about is Indian army practice range doesn't allow these thing.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

GORKHALI said:


> I have seen many things like troops wearing salwaar kameez or putting charpayee as obstacle.All am talking about is Indian army practice range doesn't allow these thing.



Wrong observation asusual .. No PA regular wears shalwar kameez .. It's the traditional uniform of FC worn on Fridays.. Like your Sikhs wear their turbans .. As for charpoyes.. I'm not sure why you are presenting the example of police? When your police itself is much more pathetic to begin with..

So Reply logically .. And take laxatives for your motions.

As for practice range .. Who knows the Bangladeshi probably was using those plugs with his wireless like your own forces.. Or did you see him holding his cell too.

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## GORKHALI

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Wrong observation asusual .. No PA regular wears shalwar kameez .. It's the traditional uniform of FC worn on Fridays.. Like your Sikhs wear their turbans .. As for charpoyes.. I'm not sure why you are presenting the example of police? When your police itself is much more pathetic to begin with..
> 
> So Reply logically .. And take laxatives for your motions.
> 
> As for practice range .. Who knows the Bangladeshi probably was using those plugs with his wireless like your own forces.. Or did you see him holding his cell too.


Never post things faster than brain processing speed. 

Did you check my post ,ironhead ?Am talking about standard practice in IA firing range. At least We have a police for policing,while pakistan got army even to do policing .That how pathetic condition should be define.

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos with Brazilian and South African counterparts

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 303103
> 
> Marcos with Brazilian and South African counterparts


From IBSAMAR 2016 if I'm not wrong. 

Would've been practicing VBSS and it's interesting to see some MARCOs operators picking the MP-5 and some picking the Tavor.


----------



## Immortan.Joe

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dude I've seen Indian troops/commandos using computer headphones and even regular headphones on wireless sets.




And it is bad.........How?

I don't see any drawback in using regular headphones on wireless sets. If ruggedness is a problem, buy a waterproof one.

Headphones are something that are mass produced ,and I do not think any military supplier would be able to compete with high-end headphone producing companies. And buying from market ,in comparison to buying them via tendering process, would also eliminate chances of bug implants.

Only place where one would need dedicated military grade headphones is on personal miniature comms , not with wireless boxes.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

GORKHALI said:


> Never post things faster than brain processing speed.
> 
> Did you check my post ,ironhead ?Am talking about standard practice in IA firing range. At least We have a police for policing,while pakistan got army even to do policing .That how pathetic condition should be define.



Pak army doesn't do policing .. It's not a riot control force like Indian army..just couple of months back IA was controlling patels.. How pathetic is that... Mobs going ape shit over caste quotas..


----------



## MilSpec

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Pak army doesn't do policing .. It's not a riot control force like Indian army..just couple of months back IA was controlling patels.. How pathetic is that... Mobs going ape shit over caste quotas..


bro, drop it. stick to the topic on the thread.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

MilSpec said:


> bro, drop it. stick to the topic on the thread.


Ok man..

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
@Abingdonboy yes bro IBSAMAR 16.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## mkb95



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## Unknowncommando

regular PARA

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## Unknowncommando

Take a look at some camos used by PARA SF





(1)Army regular camo (2)Jungle MARPAT




(3)UCP




(4)Desert MARPAT




(5)New Garud standard camo




(6)Old Garud standard camo




(7)THe Black one for night ops



(8)Some US army old std camo pattern




(9)2nd from left the pattern is of SSB-Shasastra Seema Bal
(10)At extreme right some new kind of camo i can see

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## Unknowncommando

(11)Standard desert scorpians camo



(12)The old khaki of scorpians




(13)The one which was never seen after yudh abhyas 2012




(14)This is also something new




(15)looks similar to lankan army camo




(16)In addition the old IA standard camo




(17)The jacket of left soldier also looks like us army old std camo
(18)The pant pattern is same as that of some CAPF




(19)The plain white for snow terrain

@Abingdonboy
Thats hell of a lot of camos.

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## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 303395
> (11)Standard desert scorpians camo
> View attachment 303394
> (12)The old khaki of scorpians
> View attachment 303396
> 
> (13)The one which was never seen after yudh abhyas 2012
> View attachment 303397
> 
> (14)This is also something new
> View attachment 303398
> 
> (15)looks similar to lankan army camo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (16)In addition the old IA standard camo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (17)The jacket of left soldier also looks like us army old std camo
> (18)The pant pattern is same as that of some CAPF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (19)The plain white for snow terrain
> 
> @Abingdonboy
> Thats hell of a lot of camos.


There is more kinda pinkish.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> @Abingdonboy
> Thats hell of a lot of camos.


Indeed it is! It is really rather needless but the SF have a lot of leeway in adopting equipment/uniforms on a need absis and not just as a collective but at an induvidual btn/team level. Furthermore when you have SF operators (from all btns) rotating through JK or the NE and then heading back to their home base they are likely to have accumlated a number of different uniforms depending on who they were operating with and where. 

+ one minor point bro, to me 4 and 5 look the same, I don't think 4 is the Desert MARPAT, I haven't actually seen that in PARA (SF) use and 15 could well be a Sri Lankan training with Indian SF.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed it is! It is really rather needless but the SF have a lot of leeway in adopting equipment/uniforms on a need absis and not just as a collective but at an induvidual btn/team level. Furthermore when you have SF operators (from all btns) rotating through JK or the NE and then heading back to their home base they are likely to have accumlated a number of different uniforms depending on who they were operating with and where.
> 
> + one minor point bro, to me 4 and 5 look the same, I don't think 4 is the Desert MARPAT, I haven't actually seen that in PARA (SF) use and 15 could well be a Sri Lankan training with Indian SF.


It is 100% Desert MARPAT bro just the shades are little darker due to low light.I have another one pic for that.




THIS is pic of PARA SF in himalayas.
This will clear ur doubt abt PARAs using desert MARPAT.We have same pattern but only difference is darker shades than the one Marines use.You can google to see diff shades of marpat with same pattern.
Thats not an sri lankan soldier.I know both of them personally on FB so no doubt about what they are wearing and their identity.




During joint training 
@Jamwal's bro can u add that pic.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> It is 100% Desert MARPAT bro just the shades are little darker due to low light.I have another one pic for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is pic of PARA SF in himalayas.



I stand corrected brother 

I had no idea that the desert MARPAT was in use by any Indian force (outside of Punjab police's SWAT team  )

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## Armani

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 303390
> 
> (10)At extreme right some new kind of camo i can see



Yet another camo! 

This will never end!

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## Abingdonboy

Armani said:


> Yet another camo!
> 
> This will never end!


They're out of control!

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## Dandpatta

Abingdonboy said:


> They're out of control!



IMO, that really is too many camos. I have made my point known many times (to Abingdonboy) as well, that when we see pictures of Indian soldiers on the field, they do look like rebels donning different camos. And this is not about COIN operations. Many field deployment pictures have too many cam variations. For example pictures of our soldiers in Kargil theater is one example.

And this begs a question that no one has answered yet :-

How does procuring of battle camou uniforms differ in India, against those of other countries? I know soldiers in India buy their uniforms from desginated / accredited shops in cantonments. Is it he same in other countries like UK / US / Pakistan / etc?

Hope someone can answer this.

@Abingdonboy
@Oscar
@Tshering22


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Not only various amounts of camo, camo that was standardized in the 90s are still circulating to this day. It's like they have several different vendors giving them all sorts of camo.


----------



## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> (17)The jacket of left soldier also looks like us army old std camo


Also,this Camo is common in regular infantry as well.

This is my Dad's Jacket 4 years back - Dogra Regiment

Dual Camo- Olive green & Woodland

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## Odysseus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/727842468608155650

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## Unknowncommando

Garud
This is the most badass pic of Garud i have ever seen




Para regular




Army commando(Ghatak) at Cambrian patrol

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## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 303715
> 
> Garud
> This is the most badass pic of Garud i have ever seen
> View attachment 303707
> 
> Para regular
> View attachment 303706
> 
> Army commando(Ghatak) at Cambrian patrol


Judging by the Red Whistle cord that Ghatak is either a Gurkha or Gharhwali.

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## Armani

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 303715



Where was this? More of these, please!


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## Unknowncommando

Armani said:


> Where was this? More of these, please!


Got nothing on that bro.





PARA SF

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## mkb95

@Unknowncommando 
*@Abingdonboy 
@Jamwal's 
even the rr is getting new camo








*

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## Jamwal's

mkb95 said:


> @Unknowncommando
> *@Abingdonboy *
> *@Jamwal's *
> *even the rr is getting new camo*
> *
> View attachment 303790
> *
> *
> View attachment 303791
> *


That's originally my pic.I have already posted in other (military pictures) thread yesterday

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF before full combat gear freefall.




Para SF
Brother nowadays jungle MARPAT is available in many stores. Even i have one of them.So anyone can have that.
@mkb95

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## Jamwal's

Para SF + R R troops - kupwara encounter

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF
S-TAR and UZI

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## Foxbat Alok

Marcos headquarter

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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Jamwal's said:


> Judging by the *Red Whistle cord* that Ghatak is either a Gurkha or Gharhwali.



That's called a 'lanyard'.

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## Jamwal's

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> That's called a 'lanyard'.


Google whistle cord see what comes up


----------



## Sensei

Can anyone update on excalibur/MCIWS procurement ?


----------



## mkb95

Unknowncommando said:


>


is that a scope?

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## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 304163
> View attachment 304164
> View attachment 304165
> View attachment 304166
> View attachment 304167
> View attachment 304168
> View attachment 304169
> View attachment 304170
> 
> NSG commandos


Bro the 4th pic is a civilian .315 OFB Rifle so i doubt he is NSG

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## Unknowncommando

@mkb95 yes.They used to use it few years back. But i have seen flashlight mounted on gun like this with NSG too.But i doubt,that should be a scope. 
@Jamwal's The guy is surely NSG.And the pic is from manesar training school of NSG.May be they are using it as sporting rifle or may be for practice.




Para SF




21 st PARA SF

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Jamwal's said:


> Google whistle cord see what comes up


In military it's called lanyard, whatever it may have- whistle, pin, et al.


----------



## Kushal Sinha

Foxbat Alok said:


> Marcos headquarter


That's not the MARCOS HQ , that a statue of a Naval Diver and this picture is of the Naval Diver's School 
Source : Naval Diver

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## Mavericks

i wanna know that 2 years back i underwent an acl reconstruction surgery and a titanium screw was placed in my knee.. will i be able to clear the medical of NDA? i don't have any problem i doing physical activities but the screw shows up in xray.. will i be able to pass the medical cause NDA results will be out in couple of months.


----------



## AbRaj

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 304164
> View attachment 304165
> View attachment 304166
> 
> NSG commandos


Is this excalibre?


----------



## Foxbat Alok

1st two are SIG 551 but don't know abt the last one @AbRaj


----------



## AbRaj

Foxbat Alok said:


> 1st two are SIG 551 but don't know abt the last one @AbRaj


Oh


----------



## Unknowncommando

AbRaj said:


> Is this excalibre?


First two are SIG 551
AND other one is OFB .315 sniper rifle.

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## Foxbat Alok

bro @Unknowncommando wiki showing nsg use m16 rifle . so have any pic nsg with m16


----------



## T-72M1

rare photos of MARCOS practice on a civvie ship

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## hkdas

T-72M1 said:


>


which rifle is that?? it have a cheek rest and vertical grip. definitely, it is not MP-5
@Sensei @Unknowncommando @Brahmaputra Mail @Abingdonboy


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF @hkdas dude it is MP5 but only bcoz he is not having the magazine attached thats why it looks like he is holding the foregrip. But no it is mp5 only.
@T-72M1 dude can u post video if they are screenshots.

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## T-72M1

Unknowncommando said:


> @T-72M1 dude can u post video if they are screenshots.


sure, if they're not too big.

will have to wait till evening though.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## hkdas

Indian Para SF With IWI Tavor Rifle with hybrid weapon sight

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds




21st para sf
@Foxbat Alok no such pic available bro.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos

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## Unknowncommando

Paras during drugmulla, kupwara op.
5 pigs sent to hell.

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## cerberus

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 306304
> View attachment 306305
> View attachment 306306
> View attachment 306307
> View attachment 306308
> View attachment 306309
> View attachment 306310
> 
> Paras during drugmulla, kupwara op.
> 5 pigs sent to hell.


Some of them are belong to SOG J&K police

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## Unknowncommando

SFF

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## Jamwal's

India - Kyrgyzstan joint Special Forces Ex - 2016


















Indian SF in the background

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## Jamwal's

PKM Gunner 






Many troops still prefer M4 over Tavor

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## Kushal Sinha

SPECIAL FORTIER FORCE OR THE SPECIAL GROUP , I think that it's special group as SFF don't wear black


----------



## guest11

Kushal Sinha said:


> View attachment 307189
> 
> SPECIAL FORTIER FORCE OR THE SPECIAL GROUP , I think that it's special group as SFF don't wear black



I think he is SFF. Can't see SG badge, though I could be wrong.


----------



## Perpendicular

Jamwal's said:


> View attachment 306932
> 
> 
> PKM Gunner
> 
> View attachment 306931
> 
> 
> Many troops still prefer M4 over Tavor
> 
> View attachment 306933


Infantry backpack, Is it newly introduced ?


----------



## Jamwal's

Perpendicular said:


> Infantry backpack, Is it newly introduced ?


No, standard issue for years but many troops prefer smaller ones.

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## Jamwal's

Para SF

Silenced M4 and Micro UZI

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## Kushal Sinha

NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS PIC

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## Jamwal's

Para SF

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## hkdas

BACK IN ACTION..
Garud Commando Corporal Shailabh Gaur, who took 6 bullets returned to service..

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## Jamwal's

Ex ADMM + 2016

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## hkdas

Jamwal's said:


> Ex ADMM + 2016
> 
> 
> View attachment 308566
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 308568
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 308567



which Indian UNIT is that?? according to MoD's press release, only navy was send to participate.. 
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=142606









^^ marcos conducting VBSS operation in ADMM Plus Exercise.





marcos participating in ADMM Plus Exercise(from 0:35)


----------



## Jamwal's

hkdas said:


> which Indian UNIT is that?? according to MoD's press release, only navy was send to participate..
> http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=142606
> 
> View attachment 308585
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ marcos conducting VBSS operation in ADMM Plus Exercise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marcos participating in ADMM Plus Exercise(from 0:35)


According to Indian media, a Naval Ship (Eravat) and an *Army Contingent *took part in the ex.

I am not sure about the Unit.

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## Abingdonboy

Jamwal's said:


> Ex ADMM + 2016





hkdas said:


> which Indian UNIT is that?? according to MoD's press release, only navy was send to participate..
> http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=142606




Looks like PARA (SF)

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## Jamwal's

Abingdonboy said:


> Looks like PARA (SF)


Me too

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## Foxbat Alok

these are para sf with Indonesia & us sf @hkdas

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## Abingdonboy

Jamwal's said:


> Me too


I have no doubt about their training or abilities, Indian SF are easily some of the most experienced and able on the planet BUT they are desperatly lagging behind not just the West but even some developing in terms of equipment. Indian SFs deserve to be as well equipped as any Western Unit considering their deployment patterns but sadly that is not the case. What is really needed is for the SOCOM to be raised with SFs getting their own dedicated budget, the opporutinity to grow organically their capabilities seperate from the "big"/conventional military. As it stands they remain a niche and constrained by military leaders who do not understand them, their needs or their capabilities but the MoD is STILL sat on the proposal to raise the tri-service SOCOM

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## Foxbat Alok

Jamwal's said:


> According to Indian media, a Naval Ship (Eravat) and an *Army Contingent *took part in the ex.
> 
> I am not sure about the Unit.


yup u r ri8 bro in that exercise from India 207 man ,1 ship & 1 helicopter were participate

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## Jamwal's

Abingdonboy said:


> I have no doubt about their training or abilities, Indian SF are easily some of the most experienced and able on the planet BUT they are desperatly lagging behind not just the West but even some developing in terms of equipment. Indian SFs deserve to be as well equipped as any Western Unit considering their deployment patterns but sadly that is not the case. What is really needed is for the SOCOM to be raised with SFs getting their own dedicated budget, the opporutinity to grow organically their capabilities seperate from the "big"/conventional military. As it stands they remain a niche and constrained by military leaders who do not understand them, their needs or their capabilities but the MoD is STILL sat on the proposal to raise the tri-service SOCOM


Valid points. But you also need to keep in mind the sheer number of SF in IA alone apart from IN and IAF.

We can reasonably equip them with reducing their number if we can fulfill our defense requirements indigenously.


_____________
*P.S* - Airborne units (not SF) deployed at North East are now using AK 74M with folding stock.

I guess they are preparing for limited war on LAC and these guys shall be the first to Paradrop behind enemy lines.

We already have the ability to Paradrop 16 Ton BMP 2 by indigenous Parachute.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Jamwal's said:


> Valid points. But you also need to keep in mind the sheer number of SF in IA alone apart from IN and IAF.


The numbers of SF are perfectly justified IMO, they don't need to be anymore though and this current figure should be frozen. With superior equipment and mobility the current numbers can cater to the growing needs of the nation easily.

Let the "big"/conventional military (primarily talking about the wasteful and bloated IA really) be cut to fund the upgrading of SFs. 

What is needed above all else is a mindset change, the SFs deserve to have their own room to grow and to not be stiffled by conventional military leadership that has basically zero understanding of them. Think about it, the ACm is more often than not a former fighter pilot, the CNS is a seasoned sailor and the COAS is generally from the infantry or Mech corps. None of them will understand the SF culture or how valuble they are and thus will consistently fail to provide them with the space and assets they need to flourish. SOCOM is the need of the hour and should be the main focus, numbers are irrelevent really.



Jamwal's said:


> P.S - Airborne units (not SF) deployed at North East are now using AK 74M with folding stock.


The PARA (Airborne units) have similar weaponary to the SFs ie Tavors and M4s also. What I have heard is that the SFs prefer the lighter M4 with its collapsible stock to the Tavor when conducting airborne missions (jumping).


----------



## Dandpatta

@Abingdonboy - this is a completely different topic but since we are on SF thread, I just wanted to ask you if the practice of the SAS, upon completion of their training, still have the final 'death leap' off a 30 foot cliff ? Back in the 80s, I clearly remember seeing a documentary on the SAS and the death leap was part of the final 'baptisation' into the SAS.

The SAS were taken to a high cliff in Scotland and asked to jump on to a rock base in the sea 30 feet down. It was gut-wrenching to see them take the plunge....

... and still stand up on their feet.


----------



## Tea addict

these are Para SF in ADMM exercise....you can spot them on 0:44 sec and also at 0:10( a single soldier)

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> I have no doubt about their training or abilities, Indian SF are easily some of the most experienced and able on the planet BUT they are desperatly lagging behind not just the West but even some developing in terms of equipment. Indian SFs deserve to be as well equipped as any Western Unit considering their deployment patterns but sadly that is not the case. What is really needed is for the SOCOM to be raised with SFs getting their own dedicated budget, the opporutinity to grow organically their capabilities seperate from the "big"/conventional military. As it stands they remain a niche and constrained by military leaders who do not understand them, their needs or their capabilities but the MoD is STILL sat on the proposal to raise the tri-service SOCOM


bro, i don't think a SOCOM will help in upgrading the weapons of our special forces. joint operations or may be cordination will be increased. but it have noting to do with upgradation. if our military generals want to upgrade our special forces gears, then they would have done it. remember, these generals are the one clame that para airborne and para SF have same mandates... and put both the unit in same regiment. weapon upgrade can only done when generals want them to do so.


----------



## Jamwal's

BMP 2 attached with Airborne Brigade (not SF) capable of Paradropped with Troops from IL 76









Troops are mostly equipped with AKs, VZ 58 and limited AK 74M














Para Recruits









BMP 2 - Airdropped by Made in India Parachute.









DRDO's older P 7 Heavy drop system has been exported to friendly countries.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*Russian Airborne troops are equipped with BMD instead of BMP 2
*

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos and PARA SF in Ex ADMM +

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## saumyasupratik

Jamwal's said:


> Troops are mostly equipped with AKs, VZ 58 and limited AK 74M



Any photos of the AK-74M in use?


----------



## Unknowncommando

21st Para sf and desert Scorpions joint ex.




PARA SF training with paintball guns

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## Jamwal's

Garuda

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## Assault Rifle

@Abingdonboy @hkdas
@Unknowncommando

Is it true that unlike NSG's SRG wing which recruits from both CAPFs and State Police, SPG recruits only from CAPFs and RPF and not State Police?


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG ex on airplane

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## Abingdonboy

Assault Rifle said:


> @Abingdonboy @hkdas
> @Unknowncommando
> 
> Is it true that unlike NSG's SRG wing which recruits from both CAPFs and State Police, SPG recruits only from CAPFs and RPF and not State Police?


From what I understand this is corect but I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't exceptions.


----------



## Jamwal's

*Para SF*

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS CONDUCTING VBSS EXERCISE ON USS MOBILE BAY AND INS SHAKTI DURING MALABAR 16

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## Jamwal's

Many Marcos are SEAL qualified, since 1st batch.


retd Marco and ethnic Gurkha

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## Unknowncommando

Navy MARCOS MALABAR 16

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## Jamwal's

NCC cadets visit Para barracks







Para sf

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Jamwal's said:


> NCC cadets visit Para barracks
> 
> Para sf
> 
> View attachment 310525



The guy with the handgun aimed at his temple is pretty smart .. 

Nice bicycle helmet btwn.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




MARCO
@Jamwal's brother few of ur pics are older.Do check previous pages.Not about this thread but for all. U are doing good.

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## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARCO
> @Jamwal's brother few of ur pics are older.Do check previous pages.Not about this thread but for all. U are doing good.


Brother - Maybe those Garuda pics are older.

Secondly, the para pic i posted is far better than on previous page with "*exclusive*" and "*INDRA*" written all over the place.

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## Vergennes

Jamwal's said:


> NCC cadets visit Para barracks
> 
> View attachment 310524



@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando I think this is the fist time i've seen a 'correctly equipped' indian soldier from the special forces. Slowly but surely ? 
-
The finger on the trigger...



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The guy with the handgun aimed at his temple is pretty smart ..
> 
> Nice bicycle helmet btwn.



Well,what shockes me the most is the finger of the trigger... even if it's just for show..... Back in the army I would have been punished just for *this*.

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## spectribution

Vauban said:


> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando I think this is the fist time i've seen a 'correctly equipped' indian soldier from the special forces. Slowly but surely ?
> -
> The finger on the trigger...
> 
> 
> 
> Well,what shockes me the most is the finger of the trigger... even if it's just for show..... Back in the army I would have been punished just for *this*.



The new helmet are kind of new to these units. They were first seen during an encounter in Kathua, J&K.














This is the first one I am seeing up close.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

spectribution said:


> The new helmet are kind of new to these units. They were first seen during an encounter in Kathua, J&K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the first one I am seeing up close.


He was talking about the pathetic trigger discipline aswell as the guy with his hand on the pistol aimed to his head.. 

We I was a kid .. That was the first thing was told to "not do":

Never point a gun towards anybody or yourself if don't want to shoot--- guns are always loaded.

Trigger discipline..

These things will get you fired in any military.

@Vauban.

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## spectribution

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> He was talking about the pathetic trigger discipline aswell as the guy with his hand on the pistol aimed to his head..
> 
> We I was a kid .. That was the first thing was told to "not do":
> 
> Never point a gun towards anybody or yourself if don't want to shoot--- guns are always loaded.
> 
> Trigger discipline..
> 
> These things will get you fired in any military.
> 
> @Vauban.



You are ex military or paramilitary?


----------



## Unknowncommando

Jamwal's said:


> NCC cadets visit Para barracks
> 
> View attachment 310524
> 
> 
> 
> Para sf
> 
> View attachment 310525


super find dude.
@Assault Rifle they choose from CAPFs and POLICE.RPF comes under CAPFs.
@Vauban yes uptill now they were seen with the fast helmets without rails and NVG strap but this is the proper one.

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## Jamwal's

That pic has nothing to with friggin Trigger discipline n all. The guy from left is from NE.

The pic was taken before the Roll call and those operatives are not posted in the field but outside the barracks in the regimental center.


You don't take Cameras in the field.

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## Abingdonboy

Jamwal's said:


> That pic has nothing to with friggin Trigger discipline n all. The guy from left is from NE.
> 
> The pic was taken before the Roll call and those operatives are not posted in the field but outside the barracks in the regimental center.
> 
> 
> You don't take Cameras in the field.


It doesn't matter what the context of the pic is bro, proffesional soldiers do NOT do such ret@rded things. Pass this pic onto his CO and see what happens.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS




PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

COAS's BG

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS IBSAMAR 2016
Thanks to predator and hkdas

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## Unknowncommando

IBSAMAR 2016 
MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Garud







Para SF




Marcos

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Foxbat Alok

NSG


























Nsg

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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


>


Is this NSG?



Foxbat Alok said:


>



Very cool....SIG 552 with the EO tech RDS, usually the SIGs have telescopic scopes (for snipers) or magnified Aimpoint sights for the assualters.


----------



## Nike

Abingdonboy said:


> Looks like PARA (SF)





Foxbat Alok said:


> these are para sf with Indonesia & us sf @hkdas



ah these are our Marines Tontaipur (Marine recon units), not our SF per-se

this one is standard SF from Kopassus while conduct Search and Destroy mission (this photo is taken in Papua, near the border with Papua New Guinea)


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## Unknowncommando

21st PARA SF

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## Foxbat Alok

Yup nsg
Note the helmet & boots & guns
& pics are send by a NSF guy
@Abingdonboy












9th para

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## Foxbat Alok

2nd para

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## Abingdonboy

madokafc said:


> ah these are our Marines Tontaipur (Marine recon units), not our SF per-se
> 
> this one is standard SF from Kopassus while conduct Search and Destroy mission (this photo is taken in Papua, near the border with Papua New Guinea)


The guys in question (on point) are definetly wearing standard issue Indian Army DDM though.


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## Jamwal's

Para SF

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## spectribution

Jamwal's said:


> Para SF
> 
> View attachment 315948

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## tyagi

Call of duty ki pic ku post ki hai


----------



## Star Wars

"AM gonna kick your ***, look"






Anyone know who or what unit she is from ?

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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> Anyone know who or what unit she is from ?


Probably IAF


----------



## Star Wars

They look like SF, but with INSAS rifles ? IS this some special jungle unit i don't know ?


----------



## spectribution

Abingdonboy said:


> Probably IAF


OTA going by the fact there are no women NCOs or JCOs.



tyagi said:


> Call of duty ki pic ku post ki hai



Struck me as similar.Guts and glory....Hooah!


----------



## Aman Depani

Hey friends I am new to this forum and I have literally went through every page on this chat. I love the Indian special forces and I want to know more about them. Especially SG which I didn't know about until this thread. I hope you guys can provide me with stories and a lot more information on them because they are just awesome! Thank you!

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## Water Car Engineer

nsg

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## Foxbat Alok

Star Wars said:


> View attachment 316105
> 
> 
> They look like SF, but with INSAS rifles ? IS this some special jungle unit i don't know ?


Ghatak platoon during an international competition





Para sf

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Perpendicular

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 316172
> View attachment 316171
> 
> PARA SF


Love that Tavor

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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> View attachment 316105
> 
> 
> They look like SF, but with INSAS rifles ? IS this some special jungle unit i don't know ?


Not SF, regular infantry on a jungle course.



Perpendicular said:


> Love that Tavor


(S-TAR) likely belongs to the dedicated marksmen of the team.


----------



## Jamwal's



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## Aman Depani

if you don't mind me asking, what year are those pictures from? BTW they look awesome!


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando




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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Star Wars said:


> View attachment 316105
> 
> 
> They look like SF, but with INSAS rifles ? IS this some special jungle unit i don't know ?


Commando School MHOW..The school where Ghataks are trained.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The guy with the handgun aimed at his temple is pretty smart ..
> 
> Nice bicycle helmet btwn.


If US SOF could wear skateboarding helmets then whats wrong with bicycle helmets and you know where the elbow guards and knee guards come from.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Commando School MHOW..The school where Ghataks are trained.
> 
> 
> If US SOF could wear skateboarding helmets then whats wrong with bicycle helmets and you know where the elbow guards and knee guards come from.



Those are not really "skateboard" helmets rather military grades ones and usually were/are worn for mostly non combat purposes like Halo,HAHO,climbing,training etc..and rarely in real combat...

And in some cases for "bump protection".. Since 70s..due to their mobility/weight etc... And was replaced by MICH and other helmets... By early 2000s;


https://www.protechelmet.com/products.asp?cat=14


A Bangladeshi SWADS guy with pro tech ;






Read here for more;

http://futurewarstories.blogspot.com/2012/05/fws-topics-pro-tech-helmet-and-special.html?m=1

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Those are not really "skateboard" helmets rather military grades ones and usually were/are worn for mostly non combat purposes like Halo,HAHO,climbing,training etc..and rarely in real combat...
> 
> And in some cases for "bump protection".. Since 70s..due to their mobility/weight etc... And was replaced by MICH and other helmets... By early 2000s;
> 
> 
> https://www.protechelmet.com/products.asp?cat=14
> 
> 
> A Bangladeshi SWADS guy with pro tech ;
> 
> View attachment 316496
> 
> 
> Read here for more;
> 
> http://futurewarstories.blogspot.com/2012/05/fws-topics-pro-tech-helmet-and-special.html?m=1



I am talking about the first generation helmets..they picked up skateboarding helmets and rightly so becuase the BP helmets hardly had any protection when slithering which the operators thought is more risky than direct fire.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am talking about the first generation helmets..they picked up skateboarding helmets and rightly so becuase the BP helmets hardly had any protection when slithering which the operators thought is more risky then direct fire.


These were the first generation helmets ... And we're worn because the ballistic ones were bulky and in other cases also hindered the sight of operators .. Those issues were handled with the arrival of helmets like MICH,FAST or ACH..

Now these are almost done or only (exceptional cases) used in training ex.

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## Jamwal's

Jihadis !

The gear is similar to RR even the Patka.







This kid turn terrorist was gunned down few months back. Used to take selfie with his Klash


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> Jihadis !
> 
> The gear is similar to RR even the Patka.
> 
> View attachment 316501
> 
> 
> 
> This kid turn terrorist was gunned down few months back. Used to take selfie with his Klash
> 
> View attachment 316500



Like they say..when in doubt look at the shoes.

When i see such pictures of rebels with govt equipment the only thing i feel is they would have killed someone to get these equipments and then people like Omar say that this guy was not involved in terrorism incidents.

Its high time the Army bans local shops from selling Army camo..it should be exclusively in the hands of Army.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These were the first generation helmets ... And we're worn because the ballistic ones were bulky and in other cases also hindered the sight of operators .. Those issues were handled with the arrival of helmets like MICH,FAST or ACH..
> 
> Now these are almost done or only (exceptional cases) used in training ex.



I know buddy this is what i said.Our SF operators are using them in training exercises too for slithering as the other helmet is bulky and will make your head look like a watermelon thrown from the 5th floor if a slithering accident happens.

We are inducting FAST helmets but the pace is slow.

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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bloody good to have you back brother!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bloody good to have you back brother!



Thanks brother...i had my eyes on you from the outside.

Good to be back..like it or hate it you cannot live without PDF.

A lot of things going on with regard to the Indian SF..a lot of new camo..shoes..helmets.Next 3 years look like fun for us.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Thanks brother...i had my eyes on you from the outside.


I hope I did you proud in that case 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Good to be back..like it or hate it you cannot live without PDF.


Haha, too true.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> A lot of things going on with regard to the Indian SF..a lot of new camo..shoes..helmets.Next 3 years look like fun for us.


I think the Indian SF are being given more focus than ever so I don't doubt it. That said, I'm still waiting for the SOCOM to be offcially rasied (I am led to beleive it has unoffcially been raised in part) with its own dedicated budget and autonomy. THAT will be the true catalyst for rapid change within the Indian SF.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I hope I did you proud in that case
> 
> 
> Haha, too true.
> 
> 
> I think the Indian SF are being given more focus than ever so I don't doubt it. That said, I'm still waiting for the SOCOM to be offcially rasied (I am led to beleive it has unoffcially been raised in part) with its own dedicated budget and autonomy. THAT will be the true catalyst for rapid change within the Indian SF.


Ya the boys are getting a lot of good stuff.These pics you see here everyday with young operators acting crazy in front of the camera are from their instagram accounts.I stumbled upon one such account and by god they have some good stuff man.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I stumbled upon one such account and by god there have some good stuff man.


If you could PM me that 

+ these guys need to be very careful, the Indian Mil doesn't take kindly to breaching OPSEC and have been VERY harsh in cracking down on social media usage of their ranks.


----------



## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 316320
> 
> PARA SF


Rare Vz 59

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## Unknowncommando

NSG PHANTOM TEAM

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## Foxbat Alok

Para sf 




















Marcos ...sorry if repost

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## Local_Legend

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 316558
> 
> NSG PHANTOM TEAM


Are you sure bro ???
Because we heard its once from the national Tv documentary. Nothing else surface. They claimed it was the first time they are revealing them in public but not said more than that they are elete and their training will be done somewhere else .


----------



## saumyasupratik

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Ya the boys are getting a lot of good stuff.These pics you see here everyday with young operators acting crazy in front of the camera are from their instagram accounts.I stumbled upon one such account and by god they have some good stuff man.



Any chance of sharing those said accounts or pictures?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

saumyasupratik said:


> Any chance of sharing those said accounts or pictures?



Well i dont want to be the cause of someones problems.

I would just say download Instagram and use the hashtags and it will lead you to somewhere.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 316558
> 
> NSG PHANTOM TEAM


There's no reason to assume they are the "Phantom unit" despite the fact that we don't even know what their purpose is (my opinion is they are instructors). These looks like typical SAG operators.


-----------------------------
-----------------------------

NSG SAG operators


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> There's no reason to assume they are the "Phantom unit" despite the fact that we don't even know what their purpose is (my opinion is they are instructors). These looks like typical SAG operators.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------
> -----------------------------
> 
> NSG SAG operators


Dude i have confirmed that these guys are phantom. No assumptions. They are just best chosen commandos among NSG. Just like Ghataks in IA Battalion. I have written that only after confirmation.
By a frd who left NSG during probation period and a Force -1 member. Will post more of them with evidence.
@Local_Legend Yes they are.

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## Local_Legend

Unknowncommando said:


> Dude i have confirmed that these guys are phantom. No assumptions. They are just best chosen commandos among NSG. Just like Ghataks in IA Battalion. I have written that only after confirmation.
> By a frd who left NSG during probation period and a Force -1 member. Will post more of them with evidence.
> @Local_Legend Yes they are.




ok . That TV show says they choose the best and take them away from the regular nsg trainees to a unknown location. 
So your friend identified the soldier in the pic who has been selected as phantom and moved away to a unknown location?
And looking forward for more . This picture doesn't tell any difference of regular sag and phantom.

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## Foxbat Alok

Para sf

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## Aman Depani

Hey guys is there a link for a thread that just has Indian special forces pictures? If so can someone please give it to me? Thank you!


----------



## Jamwal's

Aman Depani said:


> Hey guys is there a link for a thread that just has Indian special forces pictures? If so can someone please give it to me? Thank you!


You are already here.

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## Aman Depani

Yeah but there is another thread with pictures like just pictures. I saw it a while back but I can't seem to find it. Haha its okay though this one is awesome!


----------



## Unknowncommando

Local_Legend said:


> ok . That TV show says they choose the best and take them away from the regular nsg trainees to a unknown location.
> So your friend identified the soldier in the pic who has been selected as phantom and moved away to a unknown location?
> And looking forward for more . This picture doesn't tell any difference of regular sag and phantom.


Thats what i told u there no much difference but a little bit in tactics and equipment. They just look like SAG. In fact they are SAG but there is nothing like special Phantom badges to identify them. Wait for some time we will get to know everything about them.

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## ranjeet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/752766625590317058

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Dude i have confirmed that these guys are phantom. No assumptions. They are just best chosen commandos among NSG. Just like Ghataks in IA Battalion. I have written that only after confirmation.
> By a frd who left NSG during probation period and a Force -1 member. Will post more of them with evidence.
> @Local_Legend Yes they are.





Unknowncommando said:


> Thats what i told u there no much difference but a little bit in tactics and equipment. They just look like SAG. In fact they are SAG but there is nothing like special Phantom badges to identify them. Wait for some time we will get to know everything about them.
> View attachment 316994
> View attachment 316995



The Ghatak comparison doesn't work bro, SAG operators are ALREADY the elite, what sense would there be to have an elite within the elite in a counter terror unit like the NSG? The point of Ghataks is to act as special operations capable troops for regular infantry btns so they add an unconventional element to conventional units, wheras the SAG are already highly specialised. I don't see the point of the "Phantom unit" other than to be sky marshals, foreign liasons and instructors (you would want the best of the best in these positions).

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## John Reese

Abingdonboy said:


> The Ghatak comparison doesn't work bro, SAG operators are ALREADY the elite, what sense would there be to have an elite within the elite in a counter terror unit like the NSG? The point of Ghataks is to act as special operations capable troops for regular infantry btns so they add an unconventional element to conventional units, wheras the SAG are already highly specialised. I don't see the point of the "Phantom unit" other than to be sky marshals, foreign liasons and instructors (you would want the best of the best in these positions).


NSG SAG was Scattered Hubs in Six Major Cities After 2008 Mumbai,chennai,Hyderabad,Kolkata ,New delhi ,Gujrat

IS there Extention Plan to more Cities


----------



## Abingdonboy

-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------


Commissioning of INS Karna (new HQ of MARCOS (EAST)):




























John Reese said:


> NSG SAG was Scattered Hubs in Six Major Cities After 2008 Mumbai,chennai,Hyderabad,Kolkata ,New delhi ,Gujrat
> 
> IS there Extention Plan to more Cities


The NSG "hubs" all have regional areas of responsibility and they are ready to deploy to any city/town in their AOR whilst the main SAG counter terror task force is in Delhi who will be deployed to any operation the NSG is tasked with. If it is felt there is a need to reduce reaction times further in specific areas then more NSG hubs may be created but I think it is best to consolidate for the next 5 years and build up the infrastructure and mobility of the current hubs into world class centres before looking to further expand the network. Setting up these hubs is an increidbly time consuming and expensive exercise thus too much expansion will really hurt the NSG as a whole.

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## Local_Legend

Abingdonboy said:


> The Ghatak comparison doesn't work bro, SAG operators are ALREADY the elite, what sense would there be to have an elite within the elite in a counter terror unit like the NSG? The point of Ghataks is to act as special operations capable troops for regular infantry btns so they add an unconventional element to conventional units, wheras the SAG are already highly specialised. I don't see the point of the "Phantom unit" other than to be sky marshals, foreign liasons and instructors (you would want the best of the best in these positions).




Sky Marshals ...!!!! Which reminds me of Chinese Air Hostesses  .

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13124...training-to-prepare-for-on-board-emergencies/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peo...ademy-taught-elegant-professional-deadly.html





















*“Once an emergency arises during the flight, the safety officers have to respond and solve the problem immediately. Therefore, training on reaction speed and anti-terrorism capacity is essential.”*

I'm not flying in that airline ever .If I ask chopstick they come near to us with a poll and do this ..





Chopsticks served

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## Abingdonboy

Local_Legend said:


> Sky Marshals ...!!!! Which reminds me of Chinese Air Hostesses  .
> 
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13124...training-to-prepare-for-on-board-emergencies/
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peo...ademy-taught-elegant-professional-deadly.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *“Once an emergency arises during the flight, the safety officers have to respond and solve the problem immediately. Therefore, training on reaction speed and anti-terrorism capacity is essential.”*
> 
> I'm not flying in that airline ever .If I ask chopstick they come near to us with a poll and do this ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chopsticks served


I saw this news on Reddit the other day 


As for the NSG, they have been deploying sky marshals in Indian and regional skies for over a decade now.

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## Local_Legend

Abingdonboy said:


> I saw this news on Reddit the other day
> 
> 
> As for the NSG, they have been deploying sky marshals in Indian and regional skies for over a decade now.




Yes bro. After 1999 hijack right ?

Is there any plans to allot them helicopters? I mean NSG to reach from their Hubs to other places when the need arises ? Or IAF will carry them ?

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## Abingdonboy

Local_Legend said:


> Yes bro. After 1999 hijack right ?


indeed.



Local_Legend said:


> Is there any plans to allot them helicopters? I mean NSG to reach from their Hubs to other places when the need arises ? Or IAF will carry them ?


I'm sure that they will get their own air wing in the long term but for now they have to rely on the IAF for airlift.

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## Director General

Abingdonboy said:


> indeed.
> 
> 
> I'm sure that they will get their own air wing in the long term but for now they have to rely on the IAF for airlift.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> The Ghatak comparison doesn't work bro, SAG operators are ALREADY the elite, what sense would there be to have an elite within the elite in a counter terror unit like the NSG? The point of Ghataks is to act as special operations capable troops for regular infantry btns so they add an unconventional element to conventional units, wheras the SAG are already highly specialised. I don't see the point of the "Phantom unit" other than to be sky marshals, foreign liasons and instructors (you would want the best of the best in these positions).


Unless you are looking for black ops which the NSG isnt authorised to do.

Good point.



Local_Legend said:


> Yes bro. After 1999 hijack right ?
> 
> Is there any plans to allot them helicopters? I mean NSG to reach from their Hubs to other places when the need arises ? Or IAF will carry them ?


NSG are right next to the airport in Delhi and the C130 and C17s are stationed there.Cant comment more about this.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Unless you are looking for black ops which the NSG isnt authorised to do.
> 
> Good point.


Exactly, the NSG are not a covert unit, they are a Counter Terror force and their operations will always be well publicised it doesn't make sense to have a "black ops" unit within them. As I've said, I think the point of the "Phantom unit" (the top 1% of the NSG) is to have the best of the best in critical positions; Sky Marshals, Instructors etc etc.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> NSG are right next to the airport in Delhi and the C130 and C17s are stationed there.Cant comment more about this.


The C-130J-30s and C-17s are deployed at Hindon AFB bro and the NSG's counter terro task force is deployed at IGI's technical area. it would make sense to now shift the NSG's main counter terror task force to Hindon now, wouldn't it?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Exactly, the NSG are not a covert unit, they are a Counter Terror force and their operations will always be well publicised it doesn't make sense to have a "black ops" unit within them. As I've said, I think the point of the "Phantom unit" (the top 1% of the NSG) is to have the best of the best in critical positions; Sky Marshals, Instructors etc etc.
> 
> 
> The C-130J-30s and C-17s are deployed at Hindon AFB bro and the NSG's counter terro task force is deployed at IGI's technical area. it would make sense to now shift the NSG's main counter terror task force to Hindon now, wouldn't it?


No,they are at IGI.NSG base and NSG accommadation is right next to IGI.


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No,they are at IGI.NSG base and NSG accommadation is right next to IGI.


I know the NSG is currently deployed at IGI but does the IAF deploy C-17s to IGI just for the NSG? I don't know about that, it might be the case but Hindon isn't too far so it's possible they fly from Hindon to IGI when required as the IAF defeintly has 2-3 C-17s on stand by 365 days a year for any emergency response.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> I know the NSG is currently deployed at IGI but does the IAF deploy C-17s to IGI just for the NSG? I don't know about that, it might be the case but Hindon isn't too far so it's possible they fly from Hindon to IGI when required as the IAF defeintly has 2-3 C-17s on stand by 365 days a year for any emergency response.


IAF has a cargo shipment squadron at IGI.


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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> IAF has a cargo shipment squadron at IGI.


What SQN is this bro?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> What SQN is this bro?


I dont remember but i have seen the gate of this squadron many times while coming home from the airport.It says it is a cargo handling place and i think the defense personnel board from this gate.I have seen many C130.IL76 and C17 in IGI.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I dont remember but i have seen the gate of this squadron many times while coming home from the airport.It says it is a cargo handling place and i think the defense personnel board from this gate.I have seen many C130.IL76 and C17 in IGI.


Is Palam is attatched to IGI?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Is Palam is attatched to IGI?


The sqd is attached to the domestic airport if i am not wrong.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The sqd is attached to the domestic airport if i am not wrong.


Interesting, I wonder if that means there are IAF cargo a/c at IGI round the clock?

Either way, I think it would make more sense to shift 51 SAG's counter terror task force to Hindon (the IAF's most advanced transport hub), 52 SAG's alert team can remain at IGI.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Interesting, I wonder if that means there are IAF cargo a/c at IGI round the clock?
> 
> Either way, I think it would make more sense to shift 51 SAG's counter terror task force to Hindon (the IAF's most advanced transport hub), 52 SAG's alert team can remain at IGI.


Yea but what when they have a situation at IGI and the a/c is put in the isolation bay?Anti hijacking is the main reason for NSG to be there.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yea but what when they have a situation at IGI and the a/c is put in the isolation bay?Anti hijacking is the main reason for NSG to be there.


This is why I say that the alert teams of 52 SAG (the anti-hijacking division) should remain at IGI but 51 SAG (counter terror force) should move to Hindon bro.


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Perpendicular

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/753559927088525312

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## Abingdonboy

Perpendicular said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/753559927088525312


Joint SF EX? Does this mean a joint IA/IAF/IN SF EX or a multi national SF exercise?


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## Unknowncommando

PARA instructor

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## Perpendicular

Abingdonboy said:


> Joint SF EX? Does this mean a joint IA/IAF/IN SF EX or a multi national SF exercise?


Don't know, looks multi national only.


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## Director General

How we lost Captain Pawan !!
Date: July 14, 2016 Author: Shivam Tiwari

Pawan Kumar a Haryanvi boy, born on army day had Army in his destiny, he was passionate for armed forces since his childhood and it was his dream to join Indian Army, in the pursuit of his dreams he finally reached to the gates of one of the most iconic and famous institute of the nation, The NDA. He graduated from 123 course of NDA and commissioned in the army on 14 December 2013, he was quite passionate to serve the country. His father commented that “He was destined to be in the Army as he was born on Army Day”.
Pawan who speak less but have a great sense of humour, the young officer is quite famous among the battalion and even in the whole 15 corps because of his crack mind, its pretty normal in para special forces but his crackness has a different level. Pawan was a sincere follower of the army tradition of never leave the men behind, he always charge the enemy from the front and was well known for the unique tactics he use, but since few days bad luck was following him on the every corner. Captain pawan who participated in the encounter broke out 2 days before the pampore attacks in pulwama got a minor fracture in his jaw during the encounter but he continued the fight and army eliminated 2 terrorist in that encounter.
Pampore attacks started when militants killed two C.R.P.F bravehearts and sneaked into J&K Entrepreneurship Development Institute which is a quite huge building though militants routed employees to the exit and sealed the building still army had doubt of presence of civilians in the building, in few minutes officer present on ground zero understood that this is beyond their capabilities hence they decided to call special forces, the nearest unit is 10 para sf they were called in to handle the situation while coming to the encounter site gypsy of captain pawan lost traction on the road and skit into a small canal, the young officer reacted instantly and jumped out of the gypsy grabbed its front chassis and pushed the vehicle out of the canal, his teammates had no surprise because they were aware about his power. After getting the gypsy on the road his team reached the encounter site at late evening its almost dark, the CO briefed the team and ordered to carry out the operation in night, the boys were readying themselves for the raid, when they were ready CO briefed them again and RR started firing to cover the team of 12-13 operatives, in next 2-3 minutes the team was in the building they were armed to teeth with pretty descent tech support equipped with Nigh Vision Goggles, Night Vision Sights and tac lights. Paras were fully prepared for any situation they were doing lightning room interventions and getting hostages to safety they have cleared a lot of places.
Than captain and his team reached to a room which seems pretty normal, but they were unknown about a militant hiding in a very good position in that room its one of the most common tactic of para sf that they fire on every possible hiding location of any room so that if there is any threat hiding in those locations it can be neutralize, the team followed the tactic and captain pawan was ready with his team for the intervention while the second team was giving them support fire pawan who had M4A1 carbine with PNVG sight and Surfire tactical flashlight + he has NVG on his head almost all operators have same gears, pawan enter the room but here his bad luck again created problem for him though it was the last problem he suffered, by the time pawan entered the room a militant hiding beside a Almira on the extreme left of the gate fired a burst from his AK and pawan got hit by the bullet on the left side of his underarms pawan had a level 3 BPJ but all those gears and equipment didn’t saved his life, he got hit on the place where there was no protection, the bullet enter from left and leave from right side of his chest, he made a very little noise and the team mates eliminated the militants in seconds pawan was seriously injured and extracted in minutes he got temporary first aid but immediately dispatched for MH for further treatment the mad guy fought with the deat till his last breath but didn’t make it, Captain Pawan Kumar the funniest friend, brilliant officer and one of the gem of Indian Para SF took his last breathe on the gate of MH and leave the whole fraternity of the bravehearts in the sorrow of loosing one of the finest men Indian Army ever had, he continued the tradition of bravery of the Indian Army as well as his community of the Jats, I am not aware of the nation but some men in maroon cried for him, if you can bring tears in the eyes of these tough people you must be someone really precious.

https://elitepredators.wordpress.com/2016/07/14/how-we-lost-captain-pawan/

@Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer @Perpendicular @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Unknowncommando

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## Jamwal's

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Director General said:


> How we lost Captain Pawan !!
> Date: July 14, 2016 Author: Shivam Tiwari
> 
> Pawan Kumar a Haryanvi boy, born on army day had Army in his destiny, he was passionate for armed forces since his childhood and it was his dream to join Indian Army, in the pursuit of his dreams he finally reached to the gates of one of the most iconic and famous institute of the nation, The NDA. He graduated from 123 course of NDA and commissioned in the army on 14 December 2013, he was quite passionate to serve the country. His father commented that “He was destined to be in the Army as he was born on Army Day”.
> Pawan who speak less but have a great sense of humour, the young officer is quite famous among the battalion and even in the whole 15 corps because of his crack mind, its pretty normal in para special forces but his crackness has a different level. Pawan was a sincere follower of the army tradition of never leave the men behind, he always charge the enemy from the front and was well known for the unique tactics he use, but since few days bad luck was following him on the every corner. Captain pawan who participated in the encounter broke out 2 days before the pampore attacks in pulwama got a minor fracture in his jaw during the encounter but he continued the fight and army eliminated 2 terrorist in that encounter.
> Pampore attacks started when militants killed two C.R.P.F bravehearts and sneaked into J&K Entrepreneurship Development Institute which is a quite huge building though militants routed employees to the exit and sealed the building still army had doubt of presence of civilians in the building, in few minutes officer present on ground zero understood that this is beyond their capabilities hence they decided to call special forces, the nearest unit is 10 para sf they were called in to handle the situation while coming to the encounter s


Nice. RIP hero. JAI HIND !!!!





NSG commandos

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## Jamwal's



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## noksss

Director General said:


> How we lost Captain Pawan !!
> Date: July 14, 2016 Author: Shivam Tiwari
> 
> Pawan Kumar a Haryanvi boy, born on army day had Army in his destiny, he was passionate for armed forces since his childhood and it was his dream to join Indian Army, in the pursuit of his dreams he finally reached to the gates of one of the most iconic and famous institute of the nation, The NDA. He graduated from 123 course of NDA and commissioned in the army on 14 December 2013, he was quite passionate to serve the country. His father commented that “He was destined to be in the Army as he was born on Army Day”.
> Pawan who speak less but have a great sense of humour, the young officer is quite famous among the battalion and even in the whole 15 corps because of his crack mind, its pretty normal in para special forces but his crackness has a different level. Pawan was a sincere follower of the army tradition of never leave the men behind, he always charge the enemy from the front and was well known for the unique tactics he use, but since few days bad luck was following him on the every corner. Captain pawan who participated in the encounter broke out 2 days before the pampore attacks in pulwama got a minor fracture in his jaw during the encounter but he continued the fight and army eliminated 2 terrorist in that encounter.
> Pampore attacks started when militants killed two C.R.P.F bravehearts and sneaked into J&K Entrepreneurship Development Institute which is a quite huge building though militants routed employees to the exit and sealed the building still army had doubt of presence of civilians in the building, in few minutes officer present on ground zero understood that this is beyond their capabilities hence they decided to call special forces, the nearest unit is 10 para sf they were called in to handle the situation while coming to the encounter site gypsy of captain pawan lost traction on the road and skit into a small canal, the young officer reacted instantly and jumped out of the gypsy grabbed its front chassis and pushed the vehicle out of the canal, his teammates had no surprise because they were aware about his power. After getting the gypsy on the road his team reached the encounter site at late evening its almost dark, the CO briefed the team and ordered to carry out the operation in night, the boys were readying themselves for the raid, when they were ready CO briefed them again and RR started firing to cover the team of 12-13 operatives, in next 2-3 minutes the team was in the building they were armed to teeth with pretty descent tech support equipped with Nigh Vision Goggles, Night Vision Sights and tac lights. Paras were fully prepared for any situation they were doing lightning room interventions and getting hostages to safety they have cleared a lot of places.
> Than captain and his team reached to a room which seems pretty normal, but they were unknown about a militant hiding in a very good position in that room its one of the most common tactic of para sf that they fire on every possible hiding location of any room so that if there is any threat hiding in those locations it can be neutralize, the team followed the tactic and captain pawan was ready with his team for the intervention while the second team was giving them support fire pawan who had M4A1 carbine with PNVG sight and Surfire tactical flashlight + he has NVG on his head almost all operators have same gears, pawan enter the room but here his bad luck again created problem for him though it was the last problem he suffered, by the time pawan entered the room a militant hiding beside a Almira on the extreme left of the gate fired a burst from his AK and pawan got hit by the bullet on the left side of his underarms pawan had a level 3 BPJ but all those gears and equipment didn’t saved his life, he got hit on the place where there was no protection, the bullet enter from left and leave from right side of his chest, he made a very little noise and the team mates eliminated the militants in seconds pawan was seriously injured and extracted in minutes he got temporary first aid but immediately dispatched for MH for further treatment the mad guy fought with the deat till his last breath but didn’t make it, Captain Pawan Kumar the funniest friend, brilliant officer and one of the gem of Indian Para SF took his last breathe on the gate of MH and leave the whole fraternity of the bravehearts in the sorrow of loosing one of the finest men Indian Army ever had, he continued the tradition of bravery of the Indian Army as well as his community of the Jats, I am not aware of the nation but some men in maroon cried for him, if you can bring tears in the eyes of these tough people you must be someone really precious.
> 
> https://elitepredators.wordpress.com/2016/07/14/how-we-lost-captain-pawan/
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer @Perpendicular @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Unknowncommando



RIP Brave heart we have lost many such brave hearts in this single Ops we lost around 3 PARA SF men i guess .This EDI ops is termed as one such complicated ops by the Army and It took 3 days to complete the whole Ops even for the elites of the Army . This kind of Ops makes me feel how well trained these Rats are and i am not sure whether the army is training to counter such complicated Ops to complete it in a short period which in turn will reduce the morale of these Rats and wont allow them to have a PR


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## nik141993

Abingdonboy said:


> 9 PARA (SF):


already posted brother

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## Director General

Indian and other asian Special Forces are not as strong physically/muscular as US special forces.
Even European Special Forces are skinny compared to US counterparts.


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## Jamwal's

Director General said:


> Indian and other asian Special Forces are not as strong physically/muscular as US special forces.
> Even European Special Forces are skinny compared to US counterparts.


Being overly Muscular is not necessarily mean Strong.

Agility, stamina, strength is what they prefer in Armed forces.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Director General said:


> Indian and other asian Special Forces are not as strong physically/muscular as US special forces.
> Even European Special Forces are skinny compared to US counterparts.



I am a muscular guy..trust me i cannot run 10kms in a go.

For their job they have their physiques is the best.Martial Arts saves their *** not muscles as muscles are additional weight which you have to carry if you need speed.Secondly,muscles reduce your flexibilty which these guys need a lot.

These guys have a good diet and they burn around 10,000 calories a day and hence can never put on weight.

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## John Reese

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am a muscular guy..trust me i cannot run 10kms in a go.
> 
> For their job they have their physiques is the best.Martial Arts saves their *** not muscles as muscles are additional weight which you have to carry if you need speed.Secondly,muscles reduce your flexibilty which these guys need a lot.
> 
> These guys have a good diet and they burn around 10,000 calories a day and hence can never put on weight.


I Will Bet that These Guys Will Suffer Under High Altitude Against Ladakh Scouts & SFF or Gurkha

Many Casualties That USMC,US SF or Delta Force Guys taken against Mountainous terrains Against Taliban tribes

In Vietnam The Myth Of This Superiority Bites Dust Many green Berets Killed By regular Guerilla Local Villagers

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## GuardianRED

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 318342
> 
> View attachment 318343
> 
> MARCOS


A Frogman holding a Tavor ! EPIC!

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## Aman Depani

Any one have any pictures of special forces in Kashmir with beards and wearing their traditional clothes? If so please share. I would love to see Para SF or Marcos! thank you guys, y'all are the best! Jai Hind

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## Jamwal's

Aman Depani said:


> Any one have any pictures of special forces in Kashmir with beards and wearing their traditional clothes? If so please share. I would love to see Para SF or Marcos! thank you guys, y'all are the best! Jai Hind


Para SF - Phiran and Skull cap

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## Indika

John Reese said:


> I Will Bet that These Guys Will Suffer Under High Altitude Against Ladakh Scouts & SFF or Gurkha
> 
> Many Casualties That USMC,US SF or Delta Force Guys taken against Mountainous terrains Against Taliban tribes
> 
> In Vietnam The Myth Of This Superiority Bites Dust Many green Berets Killed By regular Guerilla Local Villagers


True, locals with very good training & motivation will always beat any foreign forces. its simply our biased mindset which favors westerns. Now a days western countries rely more on technology than boots on the ground.

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## John Reese

eyeswideshut said:


> True, locals with very good training & motivation will always beat any foreign forces. its simply our biased mindset which favors westerns. Now a days western countries rely more on technology than boots on the ground.


Yes in Man to man combat They Will Lack in Mountainous trains Against Are SFF or Gurkha Chaps 

But one thing I Like in US is battlefield Assessment And Single command Structure USSOCOM

Well Technology Important Part It fill Gaps In Battlefield Performance 

With Few Technological Upgrade and Better Command Structure Will Make Our Soldiers Deadly force Even Better than Yankees I Bet


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## Aman Depani

Thank you! and if you have any more please keep them coming! Again you guys rock! BTW where do you guys even find these pictures?

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## Unknowncommando

Frogman from INS KARNA
https://defence.pk/threads/indian-emergency-services-police-ambulance-fire.80463/page-70
Visit this thread also in case u dont know.
Share pics of Police of state u r living in. Coz we know Our state police better.Lets keep that thread running too.

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## Perpendicular



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## Jamwal's

Para SF

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## saumyasupratik

Jamwal's said:


> Para SF
> 
> View attachment 319779



Any reason for the holsters being on the wrong leg? Cross-draw?


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## halloweene

saumyasupratik said:


> Any reason for the holsters being on the long leg? Cross-draw?


congestion above i guess? Apart from that, don't know where to post it. 3 parachutist from CPIS (french DGSE action service) were killed in Lybia in a helicopter crash (cause of the crash unknown, could be a missile or simply a libyan operated Mi sustained in Libya)


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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos

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## saumyasupratik

halloweene said:


> congestion above i guess? Apart from that, don't know where to post it. 3 parachutist from CPIS (french DGSE action service) were killed in Lybia in a helicopter crash (cause of the crash unknown, could be a missile or simply a libyan operated Mi sustained in Libya)



RIP, can you tell us more about the CPIS?


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## Unknowncommando



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## Star Wars

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF





IAF Garuds

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Must watch if you know Hindi as this war veteran shares his special operations career in the Indian Army.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Must watch if you know Hindi as this war veteran shares his special operations career in the Indian Army.



Dude is there any English transcript for this video available ? .OR you can summarize it if you don't mind

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## John Reese

noksss said:


> Dude is there any English transcript for this video available ? .OR you can summarize it if you don't mind



He was leading a Ghatak force 11 men assault team 

Guy credit for killing 48 PAK intruders in batalik sectors 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digendra_Kumar
http://www.jatland.com/home/Digendra_Kumar

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> Dude is there any English transcript for this video available ? .OR you can summarize it if you don't mind



He shares why he earned the nickname of Cobra.He was the BG of GOC in Sri Lanka and the LTTE suddenly appeared and threw a grenade at the General.He jumped caught the grenade and threw it back at the LTTE blowing off his head.The GOC was shocked and said that this boy is a COBRA.So everyone from his unit started calling him COBRA.

He belonged to 2 RAJRIF and it was a unit with a very good reputation in 99(I can confirm this as my dad was also deployed in the same area in 99 but my dad was in the RR).So he shares how the COAS came and took a 'darbar' and asked which of you is willing to volunteer for attack and this guy came forward and introduced himself as COBRA and volunteered for the attack.He was given 8 more men including his company commander and sergeants also but he was made the team leader despite being of the lowest rank among them because of his glorious past.

This is the same guy who killed a Sri Lankan minister after he found out that the LTTE who ambused and killed his fellow soldiers were hiding in the ministers home.

During the attack everyone picked 1 bunker as there were 9 bunkers to be destroyed and he volunteered to destroy the first bunker.During the raid he was injured and all of his comrades died but the bunkers were destroyed.

Then he realized that the Pakistani Company commander MAJOR ANWAR KHAN 5th NLI was alive in another bunker and calling him names like kafir,dog etc etc and asking him to come out.So he managed to surprise the Major and came from the back side and shouted "Major Anwar Khan turn around because the Indian soldier doesnt shoot at the back" the major turned and both fired at each other.His bullet hit the Major's hand and his pistol fell while the LMG this guy was carrying got stuck so both got in a hand to hand fighting.In which he overpowered the Major inspite of having bullet injuries and took out his commando knife and beheaded the Major.

Then he shared how he was talking to the beheaded skull and he placed the flag on top of the mountain.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> He shares why he earned the nickname of Cobra.He was the BG of GOC in Sri Lanka and the LTTE suddenly appeared and threw a grenade at the General.He jumped caught the grenade and threw it back at the LTTE blowing off his head.The GOC was shocked and said that this boy is a COBRA.So everyone from his unit started calling him COBRA.
> 
> He belonged to 2 RAJRIF and it was a unit with a very good reputation in 99(I can confirm this as my dad was also deployed in the same area in 99 but my dad was in the RR).So he shares how the COAS came and took a 'darbar' and asked which of you is willing to volunteer for attack and this guy came forward and introduced himself as COBRA and volunteered for the attack.He was given 8 more men including his company commander and sergeants also but he was made the team leader despite being of the lowest rank among them because of his glorious past.
> 
> This is the same guy who killed a Sri Lankan minister after he found out that the LTTE who ambused and killed his fellow soldiers were hiding in the ministers home.
> 
> During the attack everyone picked 1 bunker as there were 9 bunkers to be destroyed and he volunteered to destroy the first bunker.During the raid he was injured and all of his comrades died but the bunkers were destroyed.
> 
> Then he realized that the Pakistani Company commander MAJOR ANWAR KHAN 5th NLI was alive in another bunker and calling him names like kafir,dog etc etc and asking him to come out.So he managed to surprise the Major and came from the back side and shouted "Major Anwar Khan turn around because the Indian soldier doesnt shoot at the back" the major turned and both fired at each other.His bullet hit the Major's hand and his pistol fell while the LMG this guy was carrying got stuck so both got in a hand to hand fighting.In which he overpowered the Major inspite of having bullet injuries and took out his commando knife and beheaded the Major.
> 
> Then he shared how he was talking to the beheaded skull and he placed the flag on top of the mountain.



Very impressive dude and one more thing I need to ask is IA is very aggressive in Kashmir these days be it taking some high-value target or on the LOC . They doesn't seem to be worried about these civilians protest or the causalities instead they kept the pressure high on both the LOC and on some AAA+ targets . What I feel is IA was given a complete free hand by the Modi Government to deal with the situation What's your view on this change happening in IA and what's happening on the Black Ops side are they strengthening that too in a better way

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> Very impressive dude and one more thing I need to ask is IA is very aggressive in Kashmir these days be it taking some high-value target or on the LOC . They doesn't seem to be worried about these civilians protest or the causalities instead they kept the pressure high on both the LOC and on some AAA+ targets . What I feel is IA was given a complete free hand by the Modi Government to deal with the situation What's your view on this change happening in IA and what's happening on the Black Ops side are they strengthening that too in a better way


Look Kashmir problem started in late 80s with 4000 terrorists in the valley.Afghans were considered the most lethal and Pakistani fighters and Kashmiri fighters were ok-ok.The reason being when the Afghans attacked they used to come as close as possible to the soldiers and they attacked to kill and be killed.

Pakistani and Kashmiris used to attack just to show their presence and most of the times their attacks were not too deadly as compared to the Afghans.This was also the time there were terrorist camps inside our LOC.and BMPs were used.

In 2016 there are less than 100 terrorist.A commander is killed every 3 months and this is possible because of heavy military presence,fencing of LOC and using hi tech technology.Most of the black ops were in 90s.Now there is hardly any resistance to do any black ops.(inside Kashmir)

Dont worry about stone pelters..they will stop when they are tired.These stone pelters are from Srinagar what about Uri,Kupwara,Doda,kargil,Leh,Rajouri,Poonch and Jammu???Is there any video from this place?NO..coz no one cares.

Where do soldiers from JAKLI,JAKRIF,DOGRA,LADAKH SCOUTS come from?How many medals are from these regtts?Where do SOG come from?If everything was anti India would the terrorism come down?

Terrorism can only grow because of local support and can be finished with the local support only and thats why the numbers have come down.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Look Kashmir problem started in late 80s with 4000 terrorists in the valley.Afghans were considered the most lethal and Pakistani fighters and Kashmiri fighters were ok-ok.The reason being when the Afghans attacked they used to come as close as possible to the soldiers and they attacked to kill and be killed.
> 
> Pakistani and Kashmiris used to attack just to show their presence and most of the times their attacks were not too deadly as compared to the Afghans.This was also the time there were terrorist camps inside our LOC.and BMPs were used.
> 
> In 2016 there are less than 100 terrorist.A commander is killed every 3 months and this is possible because of heavy military presence,fencing of LOC and using hi tech technology.Most of the black ops were in 90s.Now there is hardly any resistance to do any black ops.(inside Kashmir)
> 
> Dont worry about stone pelters..they will stop when they are tired.These stone pelters are from Srinagar what about Uri,Kupwara,Doda,kargil,Leh,Rajouri,Poonch and Jammu???Is there any video from this place?NO..coz no one cares.
> 
> Where do soldiers from JAKLI,JAKRIF,DOGRA,LADAKH SCOUTS come from?How many medals are from these regtts?Where do SOG come from?If everything was anti India would the terrorism come down?
> 
> Terrorism can only grow because of local support and can be finished with the local support only and thats why the numbers have come down.



There is no disagreeing to what you said but my question was more specific on your view about the free hand given by the current government to IA ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> There is no disagreeing to what you said but my question was more specific on your view about the free hand given by the current government to IA ?


I have no problem with the free hand.Our brothers suffered much more than this in the late 80s and early 90s.

Anything i repeat anything should be done to save the integrity of the nation..But we are not at fault.

A bunker of 15 CRPF personnel is attacked by 400 protestors with children and women standing in the front????Which race of people is so coward to do that..and you are right they are not coward..they are very smart.

They try to snatch weapons and kill with stones and the pressure cooker situation results in the CRPF guys shooting.The result is that the smartly placed children and women are hit.

I am not a saint and i dare say that had i been in the CRPF bunker i would do exactly the same becuase i dont want to surrender them my weapon and die of stone pelting.

Those who complain can only introspect!!!

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have no problem with the free hand.Our brothers suffered much more than this in the late 80s and early 90s.
> 
> Anything i repeat anything should be done to save the integrity of the nation..But we are not at fault.
> 
> A bunker of 15 CRPF personnel is attacked by 400 protestors with children and women standing in the front????Which race of people is so coward to do that..and you are right they are not coward..they are very smart.
> 
> They try to snatch weapons and kill with stones and the pressure cooker situation results in the CRPF guys shooting.The result is that the smartly placed children and women are hit.
> 
> I am not a saint and i dare say that had i been in the CRPF bunker i would do exactly the same becuase i dont want to surrender them my weapon and die of stone pelting.
> 
> Those who complain can only introspect!!!


This is a common tactic by the terrorists (and their sympathisers) in JK and they have been doing so for decades now, GD Bakshi recounts a near identical example:






The same happens in Gaza and the West Bank, these terrorists know the game and are trying to provoke these so-called "human rights violations". 

There are no easy solutions as when you have the kind of mob vs isolated troops situation the outcome is likely to be bloody.

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## Foxbat Alok

Para sf







Marcos




Nsg

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## Water Car Engineer



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## mkb95

paras in kashmir

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs urban CT drills at BSE in Mumbai:






*NSG Commandos Mock drill at Bharti Airtel office, Manesar*:

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## Unknowncommando

NSG commandos with Shikhar Dhawan

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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> MARCOs urban CT drills at BSE in Mumbai:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NSG Commandos Mock drill at Bharti Airtel office, Manesar*:



*I WANT A MOCK DRILL IN MY OFFICE !!!*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Its sad post 2012 we havent had even 1 documentary on Indian Special Forces.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG mock drill at JAL MAHAL Jaipur, Rajasthan

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 321951
> View attachment 321952
> View attachment 321953
> View attachment 321954
> View attachment 321955
> View attachment 321956
> View attachment 321957
> View attachment 321958
> 
> NSG mock drill at JAL MAHAL Jaipur, Rajasthan


Para SF divers attached to NSG in action.

I think the concept of Phantom commandos is bullshit.What they have is 20 to 25 commandos in 2 or 3 groups.Each group has a color code identified by the helmets.

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## mkb95

9 para sf





para








nsg weapons

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## Star Wars

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Para SF divers attached to NSG in action.
> 
> I think the concept of Phantom commandos is bullshit.What they have is 20 to 25 commandos in 2 or 3 groups.Each group has a color code identified by the helmets.



From.what i know phantom classification is just somebody who has topped in his respective unit


----------



## Hellfire

noksss said:


> There is no disagreeing to what you said but my question was more specific on your view about the free hand given by the current government to IA ?



Its got less to do with free hand. The problem was that under the previous dispensation, the mantra was 'calibrated response' and 'proportionate response'. The problem occurred in implementation phase, wherein the local commanders hesitated over what 'calibrated response' and 'proportionate response' meant. Majority decided not to take a risk. However, at no time did any Indian government muzzle the army's response on LC. Directives were clear - respond. But it was limited to like calibre of provocation.

With the present dispensation, it has become 'overwhelming response'. This allows the freedom to upgrade the response. However, the army still gives a calibrated response, as an over aggressive response in a sector may invite retaliation in a sector where we may be at a disadvantage in terms of topography/alignment/tactical location.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Its sad post 2012 we havent had even 1 documentary on Indian Special Forces.


Intentionally I would think. There was a period (2011-12) where there was perhaps too much coverage of the SFs. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I think the concept of Phantom commandos is bullshit.


They certainly aren't what many think they are. The notion of an "elite of the elite" doesn't make sense in the NSG's force structure/mandate. 



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What they have is 20 to 25 commandos in 2 or 3 groups.Each group has a color code identified by the helmets.


The colours are to do with the roles (assaulter, sniper, K9, EOD, support etc) bro.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 321951
> View attachment 321952
> View attachment 321953
> View attachment 321954
> View attachment 321955
> View attachment 321956
> View attachment 321957
> View attachment 321958
> 
> NSG mock drill at JAL MAHAL Jaipur, Rajasthan


Good to see these guys drilling all over the place, I just wish they could lose the SRG altogether and have their budget increased 4-5 fold to include their own air wing and a greater support infrastructure (it is already pretty decent but it needs to be ramped up a bit).

Looking around the world, it is a case of when and not if the savages come back to hit India and the NSG is surely going to be at the forefront of the assualt and thus they need to be as well equipped and prepared as India can afford to make them.

More fool on any politican that fails to appreciate how fortunate India has been thus far but really I expect India is living on borrowed time and when the attack(s) come they will be brutal and horrific.

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## Abingdonboy

The first thing offloaded by the SPG from the PM's helo:

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## Unknowncommando

India News Documentary on MARCOS and Navy Divers. Sadly no combat has been shown.

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## mkb95

some snapshots from the video

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> some snapshots from the video


My favourite part of the video bro:

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs:

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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> My favourite part of the video bro:


its not my video so i wondered about that too but i dont understand what so special about this?many countries releases such videos.
why hide such amazing video from public?its good for confidence building in public about our special forces.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs contd:

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs contd:

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs contd:

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## Star Wars

Garud Commando

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## Unknowncommando



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> MARCOs:



IA PARA SF with MARCOS..Marcos trying out their M4 carbine.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> IA PARA SF with MARCOS..Marcos trying out their M4 carbine.


My thoughts too and maybe it was this expereince that lead to the MARCOs procuring the M4 for themselves.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> My thoughts too and maybe it was this expereince that lead to the MARCOs procuring the M4 for themselves.


Are those M16s real in that video Marcos carrying or replica ? 




(20) Stealth Camo




(21) some kind of desert camo




(22) paramilitary camo




(23) ANA camo ?




(24) Blue camo why ?

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Are those M16s real in that video Marcos carrying or replica ?


They are real M4s bro.

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## Armani

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 322792
> 
> (20) Stealth Camo



I think it looks somewhat like a Hunting camo...






I've always wondered this...some specialized camos worn by hunters in the US are faaaar better than usual military camo schemes. I think this is because the camo is often specially developed to suit the region/forest where it's supposed to be used.

Are there any militaries/special forces in the world known to make use of hunting camos?

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> They are real M4s bro.


I wasnt talking about the ones they are firing along Paras but those in in video without rails and sight. That SS u took.


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## Star Wars

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 322934
> View attachment 322935
> View attachment 322936
> View attachment 322937
> View attachment 322938
> View attachment 322939
> View attachment 322940
> View attachment 322941
> 
> PARA SF



Discovery ?? Which documentary is that ?


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Armani

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 322959



That NVG mount looks odd. Anyone know what model/type that is and where its from (company)?

Thanks for the vid!

EDIT: Glad to see that those Oakley-type hardknuckle gloves have finally caught up with Paras.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

PARA commandos




@Armani already in service since long time.

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## Foxbat Alok

M16A2
@Unknowncommando

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Wow..That looks awesome.Looks like a documentary worth the wait but unfortunately i wont be able to watch it.Hope someone uploads it on the internet.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


>


NSG mock drill a few months ago in some Delhi Malls.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF with ANA SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


>



Remember @Abingdonboy we had a chat in 2012 when i said i am waiting for the day a documentary is made in which Indian amphibious commandos come out of the water and how deadly it would look..This is the best it could have been.

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## hkdas

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro, do u know which place is that?? that amphibious training is conducting?? it looks like some lake in J&K.


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## Water Car Engineer



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro, do u know which place is that?? that amphibious training is conducting?? it looks like some lake in J&K.



Its a place in Karnataka near the Arabian sea shore.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Its a place in Karnataka near the Arabian sea shore.


bro, can u share more details about this training center??


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

hkdas said:


> bro, can u share more details about this training center??


This is all i know buddy.The state has a Para Regtt Training centre in Bangalore and a Commando School in Belgaum.


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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


>



Whats exciting is that they will cover the the 90 days of hell that the canidate has to face in probation period.

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

Water Car Engineer said:


>



When ? Is there re-telecast or available on Internet ?


----------



## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Whats exciting is that they will cover the the 90 days of hell that the canidate has to face in probation period.


Let's hope so.

If they keep the same format as their "2 weeks in hell" (for US Army SF;Green Berets) then it will be good.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF , SFF , MARCOS , GARUDS
All Special Forces the maroon berets

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## mkb95

@Abingdonboy
you posted a thread with a marcos video that got around 80+ thanks.i remember looking at it once but cant seem to find it.can you give me the link.
thanks.


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## GuardianRED

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 323822
> 
> All Special Forces the maroon berets


Bro... excellent - but im not able to recognize the top right operator!

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## Dirt Diver

GuardianRED said:


> Bro... excellent - but im not able to recognize the top right operator!


SFF

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## GuardianRED



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Let's hope so.
> 
> If they keep the same format as their "2 weeks in hell" (for US Army SF;Green Berets) then it will be good.


I don't think it will show everything because the trainees are tortured for 7 days without food which cannot be shown on national television.


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## Abingdonboy

PM Modi's first trip to Telangana:

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF):






































mkb95 said:


> @Abingdonboy
> you posted a thread with a marcos video that got around 80+ thanks.i remember looking at it once but cant seem to find it.can you give me the link.
> thanks.


One of these?

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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of these?


thanks,it was the second one.

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## Foxbat Alok



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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of these?



In the 2nd pic the men are just before the stage of breaking down . After seeing the whole Navy Seals training in YouTube i felt that these guys are not normal human beings that's the level of toughness they created even for those who are watching it. Lets see how our very own guys fare in that aspect

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos




Para commando

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## Star Wars

Hezbollah Al-Radwan Battalion. I knew Hezbullah was good, but this looks professional


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Star Wars said:


> View attachment 324308
> 
> 
> Hezbollah Al-Radwan Battalion. I knew Hezbullah was good, but this looks professional


What makes you post Islamist group pics in Indian SF thread?

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## Star Wars

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What makes you post Islamist group pics in Indian SF thread?



Without them, Syria would have turned into another Jihad factory. They seem to be the only professional military force in the middle east. This is the only thread where a sane discussion can take place. The Middle east thread will turn into a troll war...

Besides, something could be learnt from their success.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Star Wars said:


> Without them, Syria would have turned into another Jihad factory. They seem to be the only professional military force in the middle east. This is the only thread where a sane discussion can take place. The Middle east thread will turn into a troll war...
> 
> Besides, something could be learnt from their success.



This is a thread exclusively for Indian SF.Some members have included SPecial Units too and its ok as long as they are Indian.


----------



## Water Car Engineer



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## Kazakh soldier

I have a question is the TAR-21 the standard Indian special forces weaponry or no?


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## Water Car Engineer

Kazakh soldier said:


> I have a question is the TAR-21 the standard Indian special forces weaponry or no?




At this point, _almost_.

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## Kazakh soldier

Water Car Engineer said:


> At this point, _almost_.


I see thank you


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## Unknowncommando



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## noksss

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 324618
> 
> 
> View attachment 324619



Behind the enemy line training ? . Can that be shown in detail ?


----------



## Foxbat Alok

P

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## Unknowncommando

@noksss Dont know bro i dont think so. Lets see on 15th.

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## mkb95

nsg


----------



## Pakistan First

Any notable achievements of these so-called Indian "special" forces? Other than killing and maiming civilians and dissenting political workers, at home and abroad?


----------



## Indika

Pakistan First said:


> Any notable achievements of these so-called Indian "special" forces? Other than killing and maiming civilians and dissenting political workers, at home and abroad?


They dont get trolled by taliban, now get out of the thread before TTAs are notified.


----------



## Star Wars

Pakistan First said:


> Any notable achievements of these so-called Indian "special" forces? Other than killing and maiming civilians and dissenting political workers, at home and abroad?


http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...ked-savage-skirmish-on-loc/article4291426.ece

_*"* Indian special forces responded by targeting a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers and, by the account of one military official, which The Hindu could not corroborate independently, beheaded two *"*_
_*
*_
*you asked for it*

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## mkb95

pls dont respond to trolls.
this is my fav thread on this forum.dont ruin it.
just report and move on.

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## Pakistan First

Star Wars said:


> http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...ked-savage-skirmish-on-loc/article4291426.ece
> 
> _*"* Indian special forces responded by targeting a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers and, by the account of one military official, which The Hindu could not corroborate independently, beheaded two *"
> 
> *_
> *you asked for it*


You mean in so many decades, that's the only achievement?

Have they been successful in bringing back Dawood Ibrahim or Hafiz Saeed? or is that rhetoric "Ghuss kay maraingay" just for bollywood?


----------



## Star Wars



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## Local_Legend

Star Wars said:


> View attachment 324848




Is that SVD ?


----------



## Star Wars

Local_Legend said:


> Is that SVD ?



no clue, good luck to finding this guy in the Battle field....

Members of 2nd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne) and Indian Army Special Forces conduct combat water survival training during Joint Exercise Vajra Prahar 2016





U.S. Army Photo by Staff Sgt. Sarah Jane Roberts


*Garuds






*

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




Marco
Credits - Predator
@Star Wars yes SVD
@Indika plzz Dont reply to them bro. They are brainwashed beyond repair.

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## Star Wars



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
G-TAR 21s

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## danish_vij

must watch

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

VBSS

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## Director General

Are VBSS personell part of MARCOS?


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## Abingdonboy

Director General said:


> Are VBSS personell part of MARCOS?


No, VBSS teams are made up of "regular" sailors with specialised training. 

MARCOs had helped define the VBSS training modules but they are trained entirely seperately in their own dedicated schools.

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## Abingdonboy

* This Independence Day, Discovery Channel will lift the veil off India’s elite paratrooper special forces *

They work in utmost secrecy, sometimes even dying in the line of work in some distant part of the world–yet, year after year young men from the Indian Army try desperately to enter the elite para special forces, which sees 90-95 percentage of attrition rate during the selection process itself. Come this Independence Day, Discovery Channel will reveal, in its hour-long show, Indian Paratroopers: Earning the Badge, the grueling selection process. “Some of these elite soldiers, in the front line of our battles, come from little known towns and villages in our country–we thought it was the right time to honour them,” begins Prabhu Asgaonkar, the producer of the show, who had to spend 15 months in production, with a good part spent on research as little is known outside the defence circles about these troopers.

Toughest day

In the show, which was filmed in an undisclosed location, 23 men–all in their early 20s are pushed to physical and mental extremes like non-stop 100 kilometre runs, uphill sprints, cold water swims, while also being put through days of sleep deprivation–all during the selection phase. The men are also put through exercises, which require them to demolish structures, evade capture, survive in the wild, give emergency medical aid and converse in a range of languages. “The whole exercise is a roller coaster ride from hell and back, where men break down, but the strongest have succeeded to earn the precious maroon beret and The Balidaan Badge (the winged blade of sacrifice),” says Asgaonkar.

Enemy lines

Thanks to Hollywood, Indian viewers know more about Navy Seals and British SAS over their very own maroon beret paratroopers. Not any lower than their American and British counterparts, these ghost operatives regularly work behind national borders to foil terrorist attacks and safeguard national interests with the latest being a counter insurgency

operation in Myanmar. “Indian para ranks amongst the very best special forces operatives in the world as they serve in the most difficult terrains including the Siachen Glacier–the highest battlefield on earth,” says, Asgaonkar adding that this coming out of the special forces will hopefully enable us to add these men to popular culture. On Discover Channel,

http://www.newindianexpress.com/ent...-special-forces/2016/08/12/article3576079.ece

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## Unknowncommando

NSG commando

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## mkb95

more footage from upcoming documentary 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=759913994150287

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> more footage from upcoming documentary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=759913994150287


@Levina, you were saying^^


------------

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Aman Depani

Do you guys know how I can watch the discovery segment on the Para SF? I live in America so I don't know if and where it will premier.


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA jacket
@Water Car Engineer why are you posting old stuff bro ?

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## Foxbat Alok

Para sf short training video by discovery

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## hkdas

(marcos adopts black uniform again?)





navy divers..

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Foxbat Alok said:


> Para sf short training video by discovery


This is nothing.They are sent to the forest without any food on LRP.The idea is to ambush them when they have no food and water.When this happens these guys are made prisoners and starved further and then begins the real test.Those who break down under the torture and share information and treated very well but thrown out of the course.Those who dont quit are further tortured till they can barely walk on their feet.

Torture includes putting in a room full of mosquitos with no clothes for nights sleep,electric shocks,thrashing of the worst kind,abuses,putting ice cold water in icy cold nights in Kashmir.

P.S-As told to me by a soldier who couldnt get through because of knee injury.(9PARA SF)

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## GuardianRED

hkdas said:


> (marcos adopts black uniform again?)
> View attachment 325577


I'm sure these uniform are mostly Ceremonial. I remember a contingent took part in the Independence day parade, they wore similar uniforms

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## hkdas

GuardianRED said:


> I'm sure these uniform are mostly Ceremonial. I remember a contingent took part in the Independence day parade, they wore similar uniforms


black uniform in training....












black uniform during deployment

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## Foxbat Alok

hkdas said:


> (marcos adopts black uniform again?)
> View attachment 325577
> 
> 
> marcos in J&K
> View attachment 325578
> View attachment 325580
> View attachment 325581
> View attachment 325585
> View attachment 325586
> View attachment 325587


Not Marcos BHAI 
These are navy divers during mahad bridge collapsed (Maharashtra)

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## GuardianRED

hkdas said:


> black uniform in training....
> View attachment 325615
> 
> View attachment 325612
> View attachment 325616
> 
> 
> black uniform during deployment
> View attachment 325614


How old are those photos?

And we have seen them with Digital Pattern BDUs.. Still im saying its for ceremonies and maybe depends on deployment.


----------



## Foxbat Alok

Dress code is depend upon the environment & mission

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## hkdas

GuardianRED said:


> How old are those photos?
> 
> And we have seen them with Digital Pattern BDUs.. Still im saying its for ceremonies and maybe depends on deployment.


all those pics are new. most of them are taking during IFR 2016.



Foxbat Alok said:


> Not Marcos BHAI
> These are navy divers during mahad bridge collapsed (Maharashtra)


there is a UCP camouflage cap on one diver, so i thought they are marcos..

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## GuardianRED

hkdas said:


> all those pics are new. most of them are taking during IFR 2016.
> 
> 
> there is a UCP cap on one diver, so i thought they are marcos..





Foxbat Alok said:


> Dress code is depend upon the environment & mission


What he said ! and they haven't change back!

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## Foxbat Alok

hkdas said:


> all those pics are new. most of them are taking during IFR 2016.
> Only the 3rd pic is from IFR 16
> The last is from navy day
> 1st pic is posted paracommando admin (I know the admin) definitely 2016 pic


----------



## mkb95

10 Para SF officer

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> @Levina, you were saying^^


Lol
I can't bear to watch that scene again and again.

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## bloo



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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO

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## Abingdonboy

SPG full dress rehearsal for PM's I-Day speech:

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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> SPG dress rehearsal for PM's I-Day speech:



I just hope our PM accepts all recommended security arrangements. He has a habit of playing loose with security.

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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> I just hope our PM accepts all recommended security arrangements. He has a habit of playing loose with security.


Indeed, he consistently plays fast and loose with his personal safety and it's a dangerous game that I hope doesn't end up costing him (and his nation) dearly...


Apparently this year, the SPG have been succesful in convincing him to present the speech from behind a bulletproof enclosure (for the first time since he has been PM).

Some of the antics Modis gets up to are endearing sure but they are beyond reckless for a man in his position.

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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, he consistently plays fast and loose with his personal safety and it's a dangerous game that I hope doesn't end up costing him (and his nation) dearly...
> Apparently this year, the SPG have been succesful in convincing him to present the speech from behind a bulletproof enclosure (for the first time since he has been PM).
> Some of the antics Modis gets up to are endearing sure but they are beyond reckless for a man in his position.



Its a relief that they convinced him to stand behind a glass shield. I was quiet nervous he would make an open air speech again...

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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> Its a relief that they convinced him to stand behind a glass shield. I was quiet nervous he would make an open air speech again...


To be honest, with the kind of precautions the security agencies put in place I wouldn't worry about that sort of thing. In organised appearances such as that they do almost everything possible to secure the PM, there is a plan and they follow it.

What is FAR more concerning is Modi going "off script" and pulling, frankly stupid, $hit like this:













BOTH years now Modi has stopped his motorcade, got out and walked into the crowd of children, in 2015 he took this further and walked for quite some time up the road interacting with the crowds.













BOTH R-days now Modi has walked a few hundred metres down Rajpath after the parade is over in front of thousands of spectators in the open.






In 2016's beating retreat Modi walked past his car and walked over to wave to the crowd.

All of this was off script and it put huge pressure on his security.

Sure, the arguement could be made that all of the above were highly sanitised locations where all spectators would have been extensively screened and there was ample security cover in place for the scale of the events concenred.


But then there are these kind of frankly unbelivably incidents (in foriegn nations no less):









This video actually makes me cringe:






- No advanced warning is given by the PM, he asks his motorcade to stop
- No extra security is brought in as a result
- The Nepali security are woefully undermanned to control the number of those present on the side of the road
-Once out of his car, the PM ignores his security's imploring and goes past the open car door to go over to the other side of the road
-The PM goes right up to the crowd letting them almost overwhelm his protective detail

This all on the side of a road where there is NO WAY the bystanders have been screened and that too in a foreign country. 


A series of seriously stupid calls from a man who is nothing of the sort.

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## Abingdonboy

@Star Wars when pulling such stupid stunts the ONLY thing you have on your side is the element of surprise but Modi is becoming all too predictable in actions and it only takes one idiot to erase the democratic will of the Indian people, he has a duty to his people/nation by being smarter than he has been.

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF) at a "know your army" event organised by South Western Army Command (SWAC) :

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF) at a "know your army" event organised by South Western Army Command (SWAC) :


bro, pls post that video link...


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## Local_Legend



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## Foxbat Alok

Local_Legend said:


>


Why u posting Israeli sf in Indian sf thread

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## Local_Legend

Foxbat Alok said:


> Why u posting Israeli sf in Indian sf thread



Sorry , 

I thought , it's a nice pic of Micro Uzi .

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Someone please record today's documentary on Para SF. I don't have access to TV for now. Thanks in advance !!

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## Foxbat Alok

Local_Legend said:


> Sorry ,
> 
> I thought , it's a nice pic of Micro Uzi .


Micro Uzi pro

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
Confidence shooting
Thanks to @hkdas

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## Abingdonboy

@Unknowncommando @hkdas
do you have a link to the full video?? 


Where did these awesome shots come from??

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## Water Car Engineer

There's too much badass in those pics.

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## Athen

Abingdonboy said:


> @Unknowncommando @hkdas
> do you have a link to the full video??
> 
> 
> Where did these awesome shots come from??


I second that video please....

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## Aman Depani

I third the video please! I can't access it from here and I really want to see our brave and strong soldiers

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## Foxbat Alok

Must watch 
@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
@Water Car Engineer @Athen

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## rockstarIN

Where is the video guyssssss


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## mkb95



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## Unknowncommando

Credits to @hkdas
These videos are in descending order.
Enjoy

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## Brahmaputra Mail

@hkdas @Unknowncommando Thanks a ton guys !!!

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


> Must watch
> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
> @Water Car Engineer @Athen


A glorious video bro! I was planning on doing a very very similar video 


No doubt about it, India has the best Special Forces in the region, just give them their own tri-service command already! 


@Unknowncommando @hkdas @mkb95 a MILLION thanks for the video(s) bros! Absolutely epic, men apart no doubt.


@Levina @Vergennes @Parul @anant_s @Koovie @PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @nair @SpArK @Local_Legend @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @jiki @bloo @SR-91 @AMCA @scorpionx @dadeechi @danish_vij @DavidSling @Bombaywalla @ayesha.a @Chanakya's_Chant @The Huskar @Nilgiri @Star Wars @JanjaWeed @arp2041 @noksss @Joe Shearer @Sky lord @danger007 @Omega007 @ito @litefire @hellfire @zebra7 @rockstarIN

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## Nilgiri

Thanks to everyone thats posted....I knew its a matter of time for it to get uploaded.

I am doing a lungi dance right now in excitement hehe

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## proud_indian

*Mushkil Waqt*
*Commando Sakht !*

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos
Credits - Predator

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## noksss

Unknowncommando said:


> Credits to @hkdas
> These videos are in descending order.
> Enjoy



 why are they eating the glass ?

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## Brahmaputra Mail

The gloves of Para SF has certainly improved from those baking oven ones. That's a good sign.

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## GuardianRED

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> The gloves of Para SF has certainly improved from those baking oven ones. That's a good sign.


Those Oven looking Gloves are only used for Slithering NOT for Tactical use ! there is a difference!

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## mkb95

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/766608963987054592

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> The gloves of Para SF has certainly improved from those baking oven ones. That's a good sign.





GuardianRED said:


> Those Oven looking Gloves are only used for Slithering NOT for Tactical use ! there is a difference!



Indeed, even DEVGRU (SEAL Team 6) were using them until the late 00s (if not still today).

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## Star Wars



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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> View attachment 327303
> 
> 
> View attachment 327304


Garuds like to look "tacticool".

I do like this digicam though, I think it suits India more than the USMC's Woodland MARPAT worn by the IN and IA SF.

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## Aman Depani

Wait where is the rest of the video? I thought it was supposed to be like 1 hour?


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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> Garuds like to look "tacticool".
> 
> I do like this digicam though, I think it suits India more than the USMC's Woodland MARPAT worn by the IN and IA SF.



Notice the huge scope with the dude on the right side...


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## Abingdonboy

NSG (Jan 2016 mock Drill in Delhi):

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> Indeed, even DEVGRU (SEAL Team 6) were using them until the late 00s (if not still today).


Next would be FAST helmets !!


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## Star Wars

Indian Army Designated Marksman ....

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos
Somewhere in Kashmir valley
@GuardianRED bro those gloves are in service for long. Haven't u seen them before?

@Star Wars Dear brother dont post old stuff. That sniper picture is nothing to do with SF.

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## GuardianRED

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 327664
> 
> Marcos
> Somewhere in Kashmir valley
> @GuardianRED bro those gloves are in service for long. Haven't u seen them before?


Which one ? the Oven looking gloves or the Tactical ones?? I do know both are still in use for a long time. It is just the reason of use was discussed, one for slithering and other for all time use depending on the situation.

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## mkb95

21 para

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## Hellfire

proud_indian said:


> *Mushkil Waqt*
> *Commando Sakht !*



Lol

There is a famous alternate version for probation time

Mushkil waqt commando ... F_cked

Sums up the actuality



noksss said:


> why are they eating the glass ?



Showoff

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## Star Wars

hellfire said:


> Lolhowoff



naa, it looks like something they do as a ritual when ever the probation ends. No pointing in showing off to eat glass when you run an 100km marathon

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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> naa, it looks like something they do as a ritual when ever the probation ends. No pointing in showing off to eat glass when you run an 100km marathon


It's a "tradition" and I'm sure there is an interesting story behind this sick tradition though. The MARCOs do a similar thing when they complete their selection and are given their berets-they cut their hands and issue a "blood oath" to defend their nation with their blood.

Some men are truly a different breed....

+ @Unknowncommando appreicate your pics as always bro but please try and blur out the faces of operational guys in operational areas.

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## proud_indian

What did they drink at the last?

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## Foxbat Alok

12th para




12th para with ak-74(not sure) in N-E

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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


> 12th para
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12th para with ak-74(not sure) in N-E


12th Para aren't SF, right?


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## Hellfire

Abingdonboy said:


> 12th Para aren't SF, right?


No. New raising ex 23 Rajputana Rifles

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## Foxbat Alok

Abingdonboy said:


> 12th Para aren't SF, right?


They are sf bro 
The dirty dozens




Para sf promo ...in this promo all are from 12th para

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## saumyasupratik

Foxbat Alok said:


> 12th para
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12th para with ak-74(not sure) in N-E



He's Armenian. Also Ghillie suit guy is AR most probably. Army doesn't use the BEL PNS sights.

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## Foxbat Alok

Abingdonboy said:


> 12th Para aren't SF, right?


They are sf bro
The dirty dozens




Para sf promo ...in this promo all are from 12


saumyasupratik said:


> He's Armenian. Also Ghillie suit guy is AR most probably. Army doesn't use the BEL PNS sights.


Yup mistakenly I posted the AR pic ...sorry
& I don't know From which ethnic group he belongs , I know he is a operator in 12th


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## Eminent Mainstream Media



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## Water Car Engineer

Foxbat Alok said:


> Yup mistakenly I posted the AR pic ...sorry
> & I don't know From which ethnic group he belongs , I know he is a operator in 12th




Nah, that guy is a Armenian soldier.







Not Indian. You can see from the camo.

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## Foxbat Alok

Water Car Engineer said:


> Nah, that guy is a Armenian soldier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not Indian. You can see from the camo.[/QUOT


----------



## Foxbat Alok

Para sf

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## Jamwal's

hkdas said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro, do u know which place is that?? that amphibious training is conducting?? it looks like some lake in J&K.


Any Water Body in AO, once they passed out from RTC. However most of the time it's Andaman Sea.

In the AO







Andaman Sea








Foxbat Alok said:


> Para sf


VZ 59

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uk_vz._59

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## Foxbat Alok

Jamwal's said:


> Any Water Body in AO, once they passed out from RTC. However most of the time it's Andaman Sea.
> 
> In the AO
> 
> 
> View attachment 328391
> 
> 
> Andaman Sea
> 
> View attachment 328393
> 
> 
> 
> VZ 59
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uk_vz._59


Look at those tar-21 
Damn hot

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## Aman Depani

Can anyone tell me really cool information about SG of SFF? Such as training, if war ever occurs how effective they would be. If they are the best force India has, meaning above PARA SF and MARCOS. Their comparison to foreign units such as DEVGRU, SAS, Alpha group etc. Just really really cool facts please please please please


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## Jamwal's

Aman Depani said:


> meaning above PARA SF


LAMO


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## vrindavan




----------



## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> A glorious video bro! I was planning on doing a very very similar video
> 
> 
> No doubt about it, India has the best Special Forces in the region, just give them their own tri-service command already!
> 
> 
> @Unknowncommando @hkdas @mkb95 a MILLION thanks for the video(s) bros! Absolutely epic, men apart no doubt.
> 
> 
> @Levina @Vergennes @Parul @anant_s @Koovie @PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @nair @SpArK @Local_Legend @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @jiki @bloo @SR-91 @AMCA @scorpionx @dadeechi @danish_vij @DavidSling @Bombaywalla @ayesha.a @Chanakya's_Chant @The Huskar @Nilgiri @Star Wars @JanjaWeed @arp2041 @noksss @Joe Shearer @Sky lord @danger007 @Omega007 @ito @litefire @hellfire @zebra7 @rockstarIN



Thanks for tag. 
Will watch the video when I get back to UAE.

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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


>



It's always so sweet to see a SF unit's armoury.

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## mkb95

A still of Special Group with P90’s from SFF documentary

Indians know how to keep secrets and one of the secret reveal when the existence of SFF came into news and it spread like a forest fire, discussions taken place on social media and all over internet but in between those discussions pictures of soldiers with a badge which anybody have never seen before starts coming out and race amongst defence analyst and defence enthusiasts begin to identify the badge and its unit, the unit recognized as Special Group though of its information came out is negligible cause the force is well hidden till last 4-5 years. From its existence from 1981 to present the only information available is stated below.





SG operative shooting the target when his buddy standing just next to the target.


Special Group which is formed in 1981 as 4 Vikas of Special Frontier Force become a separate operation unit when Indian Army observe the risk of exposure of one of the many secrets of Indian Army, Special group become a separate special operation unit, they were basically created by a colonel of *10 para sf “The Desert Scorpions” *under *Project Sunray* but unlike SFF who have Tibetans in all over the unit they are all Indians 250 in numbers and in 1983 6 officers of Special Group went to a secret base of *Sayeret Matkal* at a classified location but some sources said that it was near Tel aviv.





SG personnel in training
The thing is quite strange that why one of the most secret special operation unit of the world agreed to train a newly formed unit of other nation which can cause damage to their covert game capabilities, the answer lies in the history when the heroic rescue by Mossad and Israeli Special Forces in Entebbe, Uganda where terrorist hijacked an Air France aircraft, at that it is believed that R&AW helped Mossad to get precise and precious intelligence to base the operation but the involvement of India remain a secret cause that time India don’t want to upset its Arab Allies and in the gratitude of the support provided by India in the operation Entebbe they trained our officers in various counter terrorist and espionage skills they were trained for 22 days in various counter terror ops, in different environments.







A screenshot from documentary of SFF, SG operatives with TARS and SCAR-H
Special Group who are also known as The mavericks or 22 Special Forces or Super Para SF is basically a battalion size force of officers and operatives came on deputation from different battalions Indian Para Special Forces, it is said that some special group operatives were merged with NSG when they formed to give them special operations expertise cause most of the NSG operatives are Central Action Police Force (CAPF) who have none or little knowledge of action. Special Group directly reports to RAW Chief, we can say that they kick doors for RAW and execute them who RAW find threat to national security.Special group enjoy special privileges whatever they need they get it overnight, they are rich kids of India cause they have access to almost every weapon available in the world market.
Anyone can write thousands of articles glorifying any particular force but the real respect is earned by the deeds, The mavericks have record of doing the operation which even movie makers cant copy and how can they, their operations are classified as hell but when the unit is exposed,some of their operations, involvements and operatives got some exposures, some are stated below :

*Operation Bluestar : *Operation Bluestar which is also known as operation Metal was a daring and stupid decision by military and political leaders, when leaders orders Indian Para Commandos to do impossible raid which have to be carried out without any heavy weapon support, without any armoured support from the main gate of the temple which is heavily guarded by the militants equipped with Kalashnikovs and RPG’s and the worst part is they have to raid the temple in a full moon night when the white marble of the temple give no chance of taking advantage of dark as cover to the commandos, at that time when para commandos were taking heavy casualties mavericks appear, they came with a plan which was not digesting to the officials present their, cause its special operation but it worked and special group got success to thin the résistance and made way for the force to operate further, Mavericks played the part for which they are created for and they had played their role in the most badass manner.





Special Group Officers outside Golden Temple during Operation Bluestar
Mavericks were involved in *Operation Meghdoot*, when Indian Army assisted by SFF volunteers and SG operatives raid Pakistani posts established in the area which was declared no mans land under several agreement between Indian and Pakistani Governments.



*Operation CIT-J :- *CIT-J was a special operation of the RAW in Punjab against Khalistanis. A group of about 350 SG personnel had helped the police in chasing the terrorists. They also conducted transborder Intelligence and subversive actions. This is not a permanent force. The SG personnel has been absorbed by the parent force, the SFF.In 1997, the former Indian Prime Minister IK Gujral had stopped some operations inside Pakistan and he stopped the SFF from operating near the border.





SG somewhere in Kashmir


*Major Udai Singh : *Major Udai singh ,a braveheart maroon and one of the few proofs that Mavericks do exist

Major Udai served 5 years in 1st para sf than joined the Special Group Aka The Mavericks awarded by Sena Medal and shaurya chakra, Major udai singh martyred on 26th November 2003 while fighting terrorist in thick forest of Rajouri district of kashmir and for this unmatchable bravery and courage he was awarded by Shaurya Chakra.





The braveheart Major Udai Singh

*Major Amit Deswal :- *Maj Amit Deswal was commissioned on 10 Jun 2006 into Regt Of Arty. After his basic service he recognised that his calling is somewhere more adventurous. He opted for Special Group at first but finally opted and was selected and marooned into the coveted Special Forces.

He joined the elite unit in Jan 2011.He was physically robust which was reflected in his performance at the ‘Ghatak Course, where he secured ‘ Commando Dagger – Best Student’ at 8 years of service.

He got inducted in Manipur for Op Hifazat II in Jan 2016. After relentless hard work combined with a superior tactical acumen, the officer homed on to eliminate the leadership of NSCN K and ZNF cadres. With his Cdo spirit at helm he followed them and in an ensuing gunfight on 13 April 2016, he sustained two GSW in stomach. Despite grievously injured the offer shot down the top militant Cadres at last Light in Tamenglong District. The Braveheart breathed his last in the true traditions of a Warrior, a Commando, fighting till the End.







Late Major Amit Deswal, notice the SG badge
source- https://elitepredators.wordpress.com/2016/08/24/special-group-or-22-sf-or-the-mavericks-2/

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## Jamwal's

An old pic of Para - capturing an alive and malnourished terrorist after being flushed out by "chilli" grenade.

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## mkb95

9th Para SF members on a transport plane in Sri Lanka, 1988.

The members here armed with 9mm carbine, SLR and interestingly an AK-63D assault rifle. The AK-63D is a Hungarian license produced variant of the AKMS.




source- https://www.facebook.com/TejasMrca/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

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## mkb95



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## Nilgiri

@Vergennes @Taygibay @Mohammed Khaled @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA

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## mkb95

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/769765070771400704

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## Jamwal's

Para SF

20 - 23 Age group - Youngest in the Unit.

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## RPK



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## mkb95

marcos

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## Foxbat Alok

Garud




Para sf

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## Jamwal's



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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/769765070771400704


One of the Special Protection Group (SPG) Counter Assualt Team (CAT)'s Renualt Sherpas.

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## Foxbat Alok

Abingdonboy said:


> One of the Special Protection Group (SPG) Counter Assualt Team (CAT)'s Renualt
> But why SPG need this beast when they have already tata storm armour vehicle
> I think this one is 2nd sherpa vehicle of nsg


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## Abingdonboy

The SPG's Sherpas are not for transporting protectees and are not part of any offcial motorcade. These vehicles are used by the SPG's Counter Assualt Team who would require such a "beast" to break contact and absorb the attack as the protectee is evacuated by the Close Protection Team (CPT). For this role the SPG require the maxiumum ammount of firepower and survivability hence why they wear heavier BPJs and all brandish assualt rifles (FN-2000):






+ The NSG have more than 12 such vehicles (eventually they will get more so as to deploy them at all NSG hubs across the country) and the SPG have 4-5.

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

I didn't know where to put this-

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> A glorious video bro! I was planning on doing a very very similar video
> 
> 
> No doubt about it, India has the best Special Forces in the region, just give them their own tri-service command already!
> 
> 
> @Unknowncommando @hkdas @mkb95 a MILLION thanks for the video(s) bros! Absolutely epic, men apart no doubt.
> 
> 
> @Levina @Vergennes @Parul @anant_s @Koovie @PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @nair @SpArK @Local_Legend @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @jiki @bloo @SR-91 @AMCA @scorpionx @dadeechi @danish_vij @DavidSling @Bombaywalla @ayesha.a @Chanakya's_Chant @The Huskar @Nilgiri @Star Wars @JanjaWeed @arp2041 @noksss @Joe Shearer @Sky lord @danger007 @Omega007 @ito @litefire @hellfire @zebra7 @rockstarIN


Indeed!But this is just 40% of what they actually go through.I was hoping they show from day 1 to day 90 but they started from day 40.

Good to see 2 Kashmiri Muslims among the trainees.

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## mkb95

nsg

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## mkb95

Operation Cactus 1988, Maldives

With the capture of Maldives, an island nation off the south western coast of India on 3 November 1988 by PLOTE mercenaries, the army turned to the 50 (Independent) Parachute Brigade to carry out an airborne/air transported operation to liberate the country and return power to the legal government. This operation had 6 PARA spearheading the mission. 6 Para flew in on 4 November 1988 in a fleet of IL-76, An-32 and An-12 transport aircraft. One team rescued the president, another took over the airfield and a third rescued Maldivian security personnel besieged in their NSS HQ. Later 7 Para & part of 17 Para Fd Regt were also deployed to the Maldives. When mercenaries tried to escape by sea along with hostages, they were intercepted by the Indian Navy. Thus, 6 Para, 17 Para Fd Regt conducted the first ever international intervention by the Indian army without any loss of life.

In Brief

The operation started on the night of 3 November 1988, when Ilyushin Il-76 aircraft of the Indian Air Force airlifted the elements of the 50th Independent Parachute Brigade, commanded by Brig Farukh Bulsara, the 6th Battalion of the Parachute Regiment, and, the 17th Parachute Field Regiment from Agra Air Force Station and flew them non-stop over 2,000 kilometres (1,240 mi) to land them over the Malé International Airport on Hulhule Island. The Indian Army paratroopers arrived on Hulhule in nine hours after the appeal from President Gayoom.

The Indian paratroopers immediately secured the airfield, crossed over to Male using commandeered boats and rescued President Gayoom. The paratroopers restored control of the capital to President Gayoom's government within hours. Some of the mercenaries fled toward Sri Lanka in a hijacked freighter. Those unable to reach the ship in time were quickly rounded up and handed over to the Maldives government. Nineteen people reportedly died in the fighting, most of them mercenaries. The dead included two hostages killed by the mercenaries. The Indian Navy frigates Godavari and Betwa intercepted the freighter off the Sri Lankan coast, and captured the mercenaries. Swift operation by the military and precise intelligence information successfully quelled the attempted coup d'état in the island nation.

In Pic - Indian Army Para troops near NSS HQ.




source- https://www.facebook.com/Indianpara...527749772765/2094629280762608/?type=3&theater

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## Royal Blue007

Jamwal's said:


> Para SF
> 
> 20 - 23 Age group - Youngest in the Unit.
> 
> View attachment 329613


Looks like trainees


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## mkb95

Indian, South African and Brazilian naval special forces

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## Foxbat Alok



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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> Indian, South African and Brazilian naval special forces


Any more pics from the SF portion of EX IBSAMAR?


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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> Any more pics from the SF portion of EX IBSAMAR?







many of them already posted
https://defence.pk/threads/indian-special-forces.43257/page-462

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## mkb95

in much better quality

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## hkdas

marcos(?)





@Abingdonboy ,bro isn't that MKU's new Boltfree helmets??

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## trthskr25

^^ Every sailor in black uniform is not from the MARCOS, this one is either from SPB or some VBSS team.
navy SPB/VBSS are better equipped than indian infantry, so it looks like they are MARCOS.

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## Unknowncommando

@hkdas VBSS most probably




PARA SF KASHMIR
M4 , MGL TAVOR and PKM

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> @hkdas VBSS most probably
> View attachment 330888
> 
> PARA SF KASHMIR
> M4 , MGL and TAVOR


What about the helmet?


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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> @hkdas VBSS most probably
> PARA SF KASHMIR
> M4 , MGL and TAVOR


There's a 'Pikka' in there and an AK too, interestingly without a magazine.

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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> What about the helmet?


God knows. Looks like fast without rails and NVG adaptor
like this french SF




Few of the French SFs use fasts without rails.
If we compare the shape looks exactly same




Pathankot encounter




kathua encounter

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## John Reese



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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> God knows. Looks like fast without rails and NVG adaptor


ACH High-Cut, not aware of the manufactuer.

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## hkdas

trthskr25 said:


> ^^ Every sailor in black uniform is not from the MARCOS, this one is either from SPB or some VBSS team.
> navy SPB/VBSS are better equipped than indian infantry, so it looks like they are MARCOS.


probably.. that ship was in a visit to Mauritius. that helmet with rail system and NVG holder.. VBSS are provided with such helmets??



Abingdonboy said:


> Any more pics from the SF portion of EX IBSAMAR?


http://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1601/160126_IBSAMAR_2016/160311_IBSAMAR_2016_sitrep 19/article.htm

or here is the report in PDF format...

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## Foxbat Alok

Height of badass





Marcos

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## lastofthepatriots

Chirri ka shikaar?


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## cerberus

lastofthepatriots said:


> Chirri ka shikaar?



its Steyr SSG 69 
And the commando is Cobra

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF with GHATAKS ?

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## hkdas

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 331513
> 
> PARA SF with GHATAKS ?


only ghataks, no para SF
that demo was conducted on 68th army day.
watch from 4:10





For better vew.. watch from 3:10 of this video..

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## John Reese

hkdas said:


> only ghataks, no para SF
> that demo was conducted on 68th army day.
> watch from 4:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For better vew.. watch from 3:10 of this video..


We Should remembers Tavor is now became common in Indian Forces

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## GuardianRED

hkdas said:


> only ghataks, no para SF
> that demo was conducted on 68th army day.
> watch from 4:10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For better vew.. watch from 3:10 of this video..


CVR News production? Damn A lot and much better than DD! isn't perfect but Much better. They should have had a second Crane camera on the other side (left).

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## mkb95

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=182870622141680

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## Abingdonboy

SPG took their vehicles to Laos for the PM's visit:

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## mkb95



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## GuardianRED

mkb95 said:


>


can one can recognise the shoulder patch?


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## cerberus

GuardianRED said:


> can one can recognise the shoulder patch?



SFF regular or vikaas unit

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## mkb95



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## debspark90

mkb95 said:


>


Mars red dot on mp5.. ?


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## Abingdonboy

debspark90 said:


> Mars red dot on mp5.. ?


Yup. Whilst preferring the MEPRO MOR sight for their Tavors the MARCOs have the MARS for their Mp-5s.

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## wiseone2

TaimiKhan said:


> Who said they are not at par ?? BB come on buddy, Indian special forces of army, navy are no less then any other good SF.
> 
> But no idea about the AF and other law enforcement ones.
> 
> But their Army and Navy ones are good enough to be at par with any good SF in the world.



special forces capabilities are a function of technology and training. Indian special forces do not have all the gear American special forces have

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## TaimiKhan

wiseone2 said:


> special forces capabilities are a function of technology and training. Indian special forces do not have all the gear American special forces have



Special forces are not always about the gear or technology they have. Many times having tech and gear is of no use if the soldiers lack fighting effectiveness or factors on ground are not in their favor. We have seen this many times and even with Americans in Afghanistan.

May be in a certain op the Indian special forces perform better and its counter part doesn't even if it had gear and tech.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO

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## cerberus

CRPF Cobra Scout

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## cerberus



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## mkb95

marcos




para




nsg

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## debspark90

mkb95 said:


> marcos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> para
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nsg


Do you have the video of the screenshot of the Paras here with the micro Uzi ?


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## mkb95

debspark90 said:


> Do you have the video of the screenshot of the Paras here with the micro Uzi ?


no

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF VZ58

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## mkb95



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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


>


@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
its from a video of yudh abhyas in US.I cant find it.any link of that?


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## cerberus



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## debspark90

mkb95 said:


> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
> its from a video of yudh abhyas in US.I cant find it.any link of that?









@mkb95
Video link you wanted. Its from Vajra Prahar 2011.

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## mkb95

debspark90 said:


> @mkb95
> Video link you wanted. Its from Vajra Prahar 2011.


big thanks.

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## mkb95

marcos during training 
livefist

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## Foxbat Alok

martyr Capt. Pawan Kumar







10th para in training

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## Jamwal's

Devils of Kupwara









GuardianRED said:


> can one can recognise the shoulder patch?


Free Tibet patch.

Very common with SFF.

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## GuardianRED

Jamwal's said:


> Devils of Kupwara
> 
> 
> View attachment 333704
> 
> 
> 
> Free Tibet patch.
> 
> Very common with SFF.


Wow, Thanks something new one learns everyday!

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## Jamwal's

GuardianRED said:


> Wow, Thanks something new one learns everyday!


They have an emotional attachment with the flag and land of their ancestors - Tibet.


That's why you always find two flags on their High Altitude posts, one is Tibet and other is India - Their Second Home.

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## Foxbat Alok

Jamwal's said:


> Devils of Kupwara
> 
> 
> View attachment 333704
> 
> 
> 
> Free Tibet patch.
> 
> Very common with SFF.


Cool micro Uzi with meprolight MOR sight




One more

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## mkb95

Operation Khukri

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## Mustang06

cerberus said:


> View attachment 333163
> View attachment 333164
> View attachment 333165
> 
> 
> View attachment 333166
> 
> 
> View attachment 333169
> 
> 
> View attachment 333170


What are they using tanks for?


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## cerberus

Mustang06 said:


> What are they using tanks for?


It was back in attack on Military bases pampore in 2013 
Battalion of 48 tanks and 2 BMP-2 battalion deployed there

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## Mustang06

cerberus said:


>


What attachment does the AK have here? The



cerberus said:


> It was back in attack on Military bases pampore in 2013
> Battalion of 48 tanks and 2 BMP-2 battalion deployed there


They attacked the wrong place I guess!

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## cerberus

Mustang06 said:


> What attachment does the AK have here? The
> 
> 
> They attacked the wrong place I guess!


Don't Know @Abingdonboy @Jamwal's Mate do you know about



Mustang06 said:


> They attacked the wrong place I guess!


Sorry It was Samba sector Base To Militants Killed in Sep 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...n-kill-10-terror-strike-Indian-army-base.html

Yes they Never expected Armour there

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## Foxbat Alok

Mustang06 said:


> What attachment does the AK have here? The
> 
> 
> They attacked the wrong place I guess!


Probably laser pointer

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## cerberus



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## Jamwal's

@cerberus 
@Mustang06 

Perst 1 - IK Laser or some other variant of it.

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## mkb95



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## Jamwal's

9







Ammo penetrated through that wall !

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## GuardianRED

Jamwal's said:


> 9
> 
> 
> View attachment 334170
> 
> 
> Ammo penetrated through that wall !



Which one the 2 Holes above the soldiers?

Don't think is result of a shot the reason being its shape is a Square, what u think?


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## Jamwal's

GuardianRED said:


> Which one the 2 Holes above the soldiers?
> 
> Don't think is result of a shot the reason being its shape is a Square, what u think?


Most probably the AMR round, notice the uneven impact on the wall apart from small arms fire marks around it.


Personal pics shared by Mobile











But the building is under construction so it might not because of Ammo.

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## GuardianRED

Jamwal's said:


> Most probably the AMR round, notice the uneven impact on the wall apart from small arms fire marks around it.
> 
> 
> Personal pics shared by Mobile
> 
> 
> View attachment 334183
> View attachment 334184
> 
> 
> 
> But the building is under construction so it might not because of Ammo.



Where is this ?


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## Jamwal's

GuardianRED said:


> Where is this ?


Few 100 mts from Encounter site.

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## mkb95



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## Foxbat Alok



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## mkb95

tavor with Trijicon ACOG

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> tavor with Trijicon ACOG


Makes sense, that is a STAR (marksmen version) requiring a scope with optical zoom which the standard MARS doesn't offer.

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## Jamwal's

Para SF

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## Abingdonboy

A rare (unprecedented?) look inside the high security President of India's Motor Garage:




















ALS ambulance:





@anant_s @Bombaywalla @Levina @gslv mk3

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## Unknowncommando

mkb95 said:


> tavor with Trijicon ACOG


Actually this guy belongs to SFF
SFF use acog and Mepro on tavors




Marcos with Salman

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

Para SF from URI Encounter

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## mkb95

nsg

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## Foxbat Alok

mkb95 said:


> nsg
> View attachment 336129


Which gun ???
1st I think its a SIG but barrel & fore grip looking dfrnt than SIG


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## spectribution

mkb95 said:


> nsg
> View attachment 336129

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## John Reese

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/778241323933499396

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## GuardianRED

John Reese said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/778241323933499396



Seriously Bobby Deol??

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## John Reese

GuardianRED said:


> Seriously Bobby Deol??


 it Was Posted by MoD in Indian forum

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

John Reese said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/778241323933499396



Fake news..Jammu already has hundreds of tanks.They dont need to arrive from anywhere.

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## John Reese

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Fake news..Jammu already has hundreds of tanks.They dont need to arrive from anywhere.


16 Light cavalry i Know this


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## Jamwal's

Not from Jammu. Boby deol is a retard.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

John Reese said:


> 16 Light cavalry i Know this


The region from Akhnoor to Pathankot in northern Punjab would have hundreds of tanks if not 1 thousand.


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## Unknowncommando

Foxbat Alok said:


> Which gun ???
> 1st I think its a SIG but barrel & fore grip looking dfrnt than SIG


May be SIG SG 553 LB which comes with longer barrel (13.7) than original SIG SG 553 and rails . So foregrip can be attached.




Plus NSG adds cheek rest on SIG rifles as they use it as semi Sniper

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## noksss

There are many cross-border raid done by IA but what's the use of it PA will keep killing our soldiers despite of such reply . Is it because the army never went public on the cross-border raid done on the Pakistani side or Pakistan will never change whatever may be the retaliation from India? . In either case despite facing an insurgency for 3 decades we are yet to develop a mechanism to stop such cross-border terrorism and save our brave jawans

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Levina

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> There are many cross-border raid done by IA but what's the use of it PA will keep killing our soldiers despite of such reply . Is it because the army never went public on the cross-border raid done on the Pakistani side or Pakistan will never change whatever may be the retaliation from India? . In either case despite facing an insurgency for 3 decades we are yet to develop a mechanism to stop such cross-border terrorism and save our brave jawans
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @Levina


Look cross border raids keep happening from both sides and i am a witness of one such raid in which 18 Pakistanis were killed.I lost a friend in it.The news from both the countries about the raid was amusing to say the least.

Another such raid which was carried out in 98 because of the massacre of hindus in Rajouri/Poonch with Indian Para SF beheading Pakistani infantrmen and putting a note 'how does your own blood feel' in urdu.

So my point is such raids keep happening with our Army never claiming the responsibilty and Pakistani never showing the world the real picture as always like Kargil.

I promise you something will be done knowing the Army(i remember saying this line in the incident where our soldiers were beheaded and then you know what happened)I just dont know when and how and to be very honest the Pakistanis are prepared this time.It might lead to some casualties on our side.

When we hit..We should hit decisively without any casualty!!

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## Ankit Kumar 002

@Abingdonboy @Jamwal's @anant_s @PARIKRAMA 

Some info on Special Police mentioned in the press release below. 

Ministry of Home Affairs
21-September, 2016 18:59 IST
MHA sanctions additional 10,000 SPOs for J&K 

Union Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) has sanctioned the engagement of additional 10,000 Special Police Officers (SPOs) in the Police Department of Jammu and Kashmir.
The orders have been implemented with immediate effect and the additional numbers is over and above the existing strength of the SPOs. The additional SPOs will be utilized especially for the security related requirements. The reimbursement of expenditure to the State Government by the Centre in respect of 10,000 SPOs will be as per existing approved Security Related Expenditure (SRE) Guidelines.
***
KSD/PK/KM 
(Release ID :151005)

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Look cross border raids keep happening from both sides and i am a witness of one such raid in which 18 Pakistanis were killed.I lost a friend in it.The news from both the countries about the raid was amusing to say the least.
> 
> Another such raid which was carried out in 98 because of the massacre of hindus in Rajouri/Poonch with Indian Para SF beheading Pakistani infantrmen and putting a note 'how does your own blood feel' in urdu.
> 
> So my point is such raids keep happening with our Army never claiming the responsibilty and Pakistani never showing the world the real picture as always like Kargil.
> 
> I promise you something will be done knowing the Army(i remember saying this line in the incident where our soldiers were beheaded and then you know what happened)I just dont know when and how and to be very honest the Pakistanis are prepared this time.It might lead to some casualties on our side.
> 
> When we hit..We should hit decisively without any casualty!!



My Question is if Pakistanis are not showing the real picture then should we not advertise the cross border raid like we did it in Myanmar ? . So Pakistanis are prepared this time and this will lead to some casualty on our side my question is when are we as a nation gonna be proactive instead of simply being reactive . No wonder Pakistanis were doing the cross border terrorism with ease for the past 3 decades


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## Jamwal's

Ankit Kumar 002 said:


> @Abingdonboy @Jamwal's @anant_s @PARIKRAMA
> 
> Some info on Special Police mentioned in the press release below.
> 
> Ministry of Home Affairs
> 21-September, 2016 18:59 IST
> MHA sanctions additional 10,000 SPOs for J&K
> 
> Union Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) has sanctioned the engagement of additional 10,000 Special Police Officers (SPOs) in the Police Department of Jammu and Kashmir.
> The orders have been implemented with immediate effect and the additional numbers is over and above the existing strength of the SPOs. The additional SPOs will be utilized especially for the security related requirements. The reimbursement of expenditure to the State Government by the Centre in respect of 10,000 SPOs will be as per existing approved Security Related Expenditure (SRE) Guidelines.
> ***
> KSD/PK/KM
> (Release ID :151005)



These are SPO chosen among distinguished civilians and nominated by State govt. 

Notice the nameplate so that they can be identify by civilians.







Right now our concern should be on possible buildup and reaction especially by SF

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## Unknowncommando

noksss said:


> My Question is if Pakistanis are not showing the real picture then should we not advertise the cross border raid like we did it in Myanmar ? . So Pakistanis are prepared this time and this will lead to some casualty on our side my question is when are we as a nation gonna be proactive instead of simply being reactive . No wonder Pakistanis were doing the cross border terrorism with ease for the past 3 decades


Thats the difference between us and them bro.
Glorifying war and killings never been part of Indian Society .Due to brainwashing they feel like their kaum their army their ssg ISI their Coke Studio their actors,Singers everything is best in the world.They Forget wars, terrorism , honour killings , jobless people , poor people, killings of most wanted jihaadis in their country. The only thing they have done since independence is create hostility wars beheadings killings hatred on the basis of religion. And they feel proud about that.
I think we shouldn't tell anyone what we have done or shouldn't care about what people think about us. They will never show their people what actually happened. Army has taken revenge before and will take in future too. Personally no need to advertise and sell MANJAN like pakis do on every thread.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> My Question is if Pakistanis are not showing the real picture then should we not advertise the cross border raid like we did it in Myanmar ? . So Pakistanis are prepared this time and this will lead to some casualty on our side my question is when are we as a nation gonna be proactive instead of simply being reactive . No wonder Pakistanis were doing the cross border terrorism with ease for the past 3 decades


If we were proactive we wont be in this shit.

Definitely,we should carry out cross border raids but what i think is that we should carry out proxy wars which directly or indirectly show our involvement just like Pakistan does.Pakistan is way way way more vulnerable than India.

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## Jamwal's

Assets are there where they suppose to be. But when they say *Time and Place *then these are not mere words but it carries much larger inherent message.

And by assets i not only mean India alone.Someone needs to see the old group photographs of Northern Alliance fighters (Tajiks) many of them are now serving officers in Afghan bureaucracy and ANA.

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## sid426

*(In light of the reactions to this article, The Quintdecided to reconfirm the information from its sources. We stand by our story.)*

At least 20 terrorists have been neutralised in a daring cross-LoC operation by the Indian Army in response to the Uri attack.

Two units of the elite 2 Paras comprising 18-20 soldiers flew across the LoC in the Uri sector in military helicopters and carried out an operation that killed at least 20 suspected terrorists across three terror camps in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir).


The Quint: Exclusive: Uri Avenged. Special Forces Cross LoC; Kill 20 Terrorists
Total casualties, including those injured, could be as high as 200, sources said.

Military sources revealed to *The Quint*, which confirmed this information from two other independent sources, that the operation happened during the intervening hours of 20 September and 21 September.


Indications that the Indian Special Forces struck across LoC came in the form of Pakistan declaring a no-fly zone over Azad Kashmir on 20 September night.

Pakistan’s national flag carrier, Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), had cancelled flights to northern Pakistani cities, including to Gilgit and Skardu in Azad Kashmir, due to “airspace restrictions”.

PIA called off flights to Gilgit and Skardu in Gilgit-Baltistan region in Azad Kashmir and Chitral in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province.

PIA spokesperson Danyal Gilani had tweeted this information late Tuesday evening.

Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif held a telephonic conversation with the country’s powerful Army Chief General Raheel Sharif on Tuesday night ahead of his speech at the UN in which he raised the Kashmir issue. It is understood that they are likely to have discussed this cross-border raid as well.






Soldiers guard on tip of their vehicle outside the army base which was attacked by suspected militants at Uri. (Photo: AP)

Speaking at an event earlier on Wednesday, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the Uri attack may need a “knee-jerk” reaction.

“Won’t go into details of what India can do, but sometimes knee-jerk reaction is required,” he said.


Hours after the attack on Sunday morning by four terrorists that killed 18 Indian soldiers, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had tweeted that those behind the act “would not go unpunished”.





Geeta (_centre_), wife of Ravi Paul, an army soldier who was killed in Sunday’s attack at an Indian Army base in Kashmir’s Uri, reacts upon seeing the body of her husband in Sarwa village in Samba district, south of Jammu. (Photo: Reuters)
India has blamed the Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist outfit for the attack in Uri.

A statement issued by the Ministry of External Affairs listed the items recovered from the terrorists, including GPS tracker with coordinates that indicate the point and time of infiltration across the LoC and the subsequent route to the terror attack site; grenades with Pakistani markings; communication matrix sheets; communication equipment; and other items made in Pakistan, including food, medicines and clothes.

Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar had summoned Pakistani High Commissioner Abdul Basit on Wednesday and conveyed India’s demand for action by Pakistan to crack down on the terror infrastructure in its territory.

https://www.thequint.com/uri-attack...and-kashmir-pakistan-neutralise-20-terrorists

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## noksss

sid426 said:


> *(In light of the reactions to this article, The Quintdecided to reconfirm the information from its sources. We stand by our story.)*
> 
> At least 20 terrorists have been neutralised in a daring cross-LoC operation by the Indian Army in response to the Uri attack.
> 
> Two units of the elite 2 Paras comprising 18-20 soldiers flew across the LoC in the Uri sector in military helicopters and carried out an operation that killed at least 20 suspected terrorists across three terror camps in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir).
> 
> 
> The Quint: Exclusive: Uri Avenged. Special Forces Cross LoC; Kill 20 Terrorists
> Total casualties, including those injured, could be as high as 200, sources said.
> 
> Military sources revealed to *The Quint*, which confirmed this information from two other independent sources, that the operation happened during the intervening hours of 20 September and 21 September.
> 
> 
> Indications that the Indian Special Forces struck across LoC came in the form of Pakistan declaring a no-fly zone over Azad Kashmir on 20 September night.
> 
> Pakistan’s national flag carrier, Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), had cancelled flights to northern Pakistani cities, including to Gilgit and Skardu in Azad Kashmir, due to “airspace restrictions”.
> 
> PIA called off flights to Gilgit and Skardu in Gilgit-Baltistan region in Azad Kashmir and Chitral in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province.
> 
> PIA spokesperson Danyal Gilani had tweeted this information late Tuesday evening.
> 
> Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif held a telephonic conversation with the country’s powerful Army Chief General Raheel Sharif on Tuesday night ahead of his speech at the UN in which he raised the Kashmir issue. It is understood that they are likely to have discussed this cross-border raid as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldiers guard on tip of their vehicle outside the army base which was attacked by suspected militants at Uri. (Photo: AP)
> 
> Speaking at an event earlier on Wednesday, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the Uri attack may need a “knee-jerk” reaction.
> 
> “Won’t go into details of what India can do, but sometimes knee-jerk reaction is required,” he said.
> 
> 
> Hours after the attack on Sunday morning by four terrorists that killed 18 Indian soldiers, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had tweeted that those behind the act “would not go unpunished”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geeta (_centre_), wife of Ravi Paul, an army soldier who was killed in Sunday’s attack at an Indian Army base in Kashmir’s Uri, reacts upon seeing the body of her husband in Sarwa village in Samba district, south of Jammu. (Photo: Reuters)
> India has blamed the Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist outfit for the attack in Uri.
> 
> A statement issued by the Ministry of External Affairs listed the items recovered from the terrorists, including GPS tracker with coordinates that indicate the point and time of infiltration across the LoC and the subsequent route to the terror attack site; grenades with Pakistani markings; communication matrix sheets; communication equipment; and other items made in Pakistan, including food, medicines and clothes.
> 
> Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar had summoned Pakistani High Commissioner Abdul Basit on Wednesday and conveyed India’s demand for action by Pakistan to crack down on the terror infrastructure in its territory.
> 
> https://www.thequint.com/uri-attack/2016/09/21/uri-avenged-2-india-paras-special-forces-cross-loc-uri-sector-jammu-and-kashmir-pakistan-neutralise-20-terrorists



@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro is this true I am seeing lots of conflicting reports in media initially media said army killed 10 terrorist which the army spokesperson refused to confirm and now this cross-border raid news . Is it simply for the media campaign ? not sure what to believe . Also considering the air defense Pakistan has I don't think its easy to fly by chopper and do a cross border raid


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR bro is this true I am seeing lots of conflicting reports in media initially media said army killed 10 terrorist which the army spokesperson refused to confirm and now this cross-border raid news . Is it simply for the media campaign ? not sure what to believe . Also considering the air defense Pakistan has I don't think its easy to fly by chopper and do a cross border raid


There is an increase in operation in the valley as more troops have been pushed.The Army was MAYBE asked to stay quiet after killing Burhan Wani but it has come out all guns blazing now.Even right now many operations are going on in South Kashmir.
Regarding this cross LOC raid i wont say anything now because maybe its made up and maybe it can be true.But the Pakistani decision to make Northern Pakistan a No Fly Zone is shocking to say the least.

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## Foxbat Alok

Search operation for terror suspects begins in Uran.Mumbai 
In pic:marcos

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## spectribution

Good hunting boys.

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## Hellfire

@noksss Relax. IA forgets nothing, forgives nothing. Time to move on ahead from Uri has come. Let's concentrate on future course of actions.

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has elaborated earlier. Read it in continuation and addition to his posts so far.


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## cerberus

noksss said:


> I am seeing lots of conflicting reports in media initially media said army killed 10 terrorist which the army spokesperson refused to confirm and now this cross-border raid news .


Who Told you that 

Security forces said 10 men were killed in an area close to an army base that was attacked on Sunday.
Army spokesman Lt-Col Rajesh Kalia said soldiers intercepted two large groups of suspected rebels who had entered an Indian-administered area of Kashmir.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-37422761


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## Jamwal's

Unleash them

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## Levina

noksss said:


> Is it because the army never went public on the cross-border raid done on the Pakistani side or Pakistan will never change whatever may be the retaliation from India? .


Remember even OBL's killing by US marines was to be kept a secret but their chopper crashed, and everything went kaput. We will never know.
We will hear only the stories of such attacks emanating as tweets and blogs.
I know for one that at times such ops are done without political consent too. If army is pushed to the wall, it will react- be assured.


noksss said:


> In either case despite facing an insurgency for 3 decades we are yet to develop a mechanism to stop such cross-border terrorism and save our brave jawans


The problem is we dont have long term strategy like the enemy has. We know Kashmir is our's and we will protect it, but we(as in the politcians and army ) wait till the problem is himalyan in nature. Procrastination at its best!
Our enemy is slowly but steadily increasing its foothold in the valley. When something develops gradually, it goes unnoticed. So our policy should be to nip terrorism in its bud specially when it comes to the valley. I know that will cause some collateral damage but then no war is won without bloodshed. In this case its a covert war in kashmir.

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## Abingdonboy

Levina said:


> Remember even OBL's killing by US marines .


USN SEALS, DEVGRU to be exact @Levina

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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> USN SEALS, DEVGRU to be exact @Levina


Yeah yeah...that's what I meant.

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## mkb95

nsg from 0:52




 should't they be wearing face mask while operating in public with media presence?
@Abingdonboy @Jamwal's @hellfire @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Unknowncommando
that helmet looks nice tho.

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## Foxbat Alok

mkb95 said:


> nsg from 0:52
> 
> 
> 
> 
> should't they be wearing face mask while operating in public with media presence?
> @Abingdonboy @Jamwal's @hellfire @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Unknowncommando
> that helmet looks nice tho.


Which helmet is that???


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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> nsg from 0:52
> 
> 
> 
> 
> should't they be wearing face mask while operating in public with media presence?
> @Abingdonboy @Jamwal's @hellfire @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Unknowncommando
> that helmet looks nice tho.


These are unit/squad leaders meeting other members of the security establishment (police and navy) they aren't "team guys" so they would naturally be walking with their faces uncovered here (just like during 26/11 the NSG's top brass were in public with their faces uncovered). 

The real issue is the Indian media not giving a damn about broadcasting the faces of members of their nation's CT forces. In France such actions are a crime that can come with a serious fine or prison sentence.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Look cross border raids keep happening from both sides and i am a witness of one such raid in which 18 Pakistanis were killed.I lost a friend in it.The news from both the countries about the raid was amusing to say the least.
> 
> Another such raid which was carried out in 98 because of the massacre of hindus in Rajouri/Poonch with Indian Para SF beheading Pakistani infantrmen and putting a note 'how does your own blood feel' in urdu.
> 
> So my point is such raids keep happening with our Army never claiming the responsibilty and Pakistani never showing the world the real picture as always like Kargil.
> 
> I promise you something will be done knowing the Army(i remember saying this line in the incident where our soldiers were beheaded and then you know what happened)I just dont know when and how and to be very honest the Pakistanis are prepared this time.It might lead to some casualties on our side.
> 
> When we hit..We should hit decisively without any casualty!!



How did it feel when they paraded the heads of Indian officers and soldiers as revenge for the raid n massacre of innocent civilians in Lanjot by indian troops. (The only episode where pics were made public and can still be found on the Internet)... Notoriously the head of the CO was presented to Musharaf... At least that's what rumours were circulating..
Thankfully 2003 ceasefire was announced and the LOC remained peaceful till your BJP clowns came to power through undo it.. And what is following is more violence and likely return of the 90s.

They shoved sticks and paraded the heads in the village of the martyrs.


As for your fake news ... Kabhi aao na khushbo laga k.


Talking on Internet is cheap..

I myself am witness to the encounter and subsequent killing of your "northern alliance" buddies in ANA by FC... We didn't even let em pick the bodies till late in the evening..


The hoopla about US raid.. I don't know the exact details but you n we all know you aren't "USA" nor are we going to keep quiet and let you get away..


1 little mistake .. First we will blast your "invading" troops or aircraft followed by counter strikes on Indian targets... And it will lead to a conventional conflict or a full fledged war.

@Irfan Baloch. Anything you will like to add sir .. As a former PA officer.


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## Foxbat Alok



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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


>


1st and 3rd pic are of 52 SAG (counter hijack group).

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## Foxbat Alok

Abingdonboy said:


> 1st and 3rd pic are of 52 SAG (counter hijack group).


Yup...if am not wrong u got it bcoz they are on Sherpa


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How did it feel when they paraded the heads of Indian officers and soldiers as revenge for the raid n massacre of innocent civilians in Lanjot by indian troops. (The only episode where pics were made public and can still be found on the Internet)... Notoriously the head of the CO was presented to Musharaf... At least that's what rumours were circulating..
> Thankfully 2003 ceasefire was announced and the LOC remained peaceful till your BJP clowns came to power through undo it.. And what is following is more violence and likely return of the 90s.
> 
> They shoved sticks and paraded the heads in the village of the martyrs.
> 
> 
> As for your fake news ... Kabhi aao na khushbo laga k.
> 
> 
> Talking on Internet is cheap..
> 
> I myself am witness to the encounter and subsequent killing of your "northern alliance" buddies in ANA by FC... We didn't even let em pick the bodies till late in the evening..
> 
> 
> The hoopla about US raid.. I don't know the exact details but you n we all know you aren't "USA" nor are we going to keep quiet and let you get away..
> 
> 
> 1 little mistake .. First we will blast your "invading" troops or aircraft followed by counter strikes on Indian targets... And it will lead to a conventional conflict or a full fledged war.
> 
> @Irfan Baloch. Anything you will like to add sir .. As a former PA officer.



Khushboo laga k jo 71 mein lee hein...usmay maza kum aya kya ?93000 ka surrender..aur bolte ho ki aur lo?

I have no idea why these morons keep coming back and then i have to share their proud history of SSG from raising white flags in Kashmir in front of our Kashmiri Police in 1965 to loosing Siachen so badly against our normal Infantrymen or surrendering infront of taliban?

Indeed the best SF of Asia and Worlds top 10 like you guys claim.

Aur jyada wintess pay bharosa nahi hota toh 21 Baloch se jakar puch Hindustani Fauj kis maut k farishtay ka naam hain.

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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


> Yup...if am not wrong u got it bcoz they are on Sherpa


Partially correct bro.

First pic is on a gypsy assualt platform which the 52 SAG use for counter hijack and the second pic a MP-5K can be seen which is only really used by 52 SAG. 51 SAG also use the Sherpa assualt platform for their CT role.


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## Stephen Cohen

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Khushboo laga k jo 71 mein lee hein...usmay maza kum aya kya ?93000 ka surrender..aur bolte ho ki aur lo?
> 
> I have no idea why these morons keep coming back and then i have to share their proud history of SSG from raising white flags in Kashmir in front of our Kashmiri Police in 1965 to loosing Siachen so badly against our normal Infantrymen or surrendering infront of taliban?
> 
> Indeed the best SF of Asia and Worlds top 10 like you guys claim.
> 
> Aur jyada wintess pay bharosa nahi hota toh 21 Baloch se jakar puch Hindustani Fauj kis maut k farishtay ka naam hain.



Some thing has been done on the LOC ; That is why there is Media ban
and airspace closed 

The Government has given freedom to the Army to retaliate on the LOC

And given that there are Thousands of soldiers on the LOC ; we can extract many casualties


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## Abingdonboy

Members of the Counter Assualt Team of the SPG during the PM's visit to Calicut, Kerela:

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Stephen Cohen said:


> Some thing has been done on the LOC ; That is why there is Media ban
> and airspace closed
> 
> The Government has given freedom to the Army to retaliate on the LOC
> 
> And given that there are Thousands of soldiers on the LOC ; we can extract many casualties


Pakistani Army is such an organization that even if 100 of their soldiers are killed the common Pakistani would never know.

The average Indian has to consider that this is the same Army which denied taking ownership of their 'shaheeds' in 99 for months.

Their NISHAN-E-HAIDER Capt. Sher Khan was given the award on the recommendation of the Indian Army.

We as a country and as a nation take pride in our values.But not everyone has the same values.

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## Stephen Cohen

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Pakistani Army is such an organization that even if 100 of their soldiers are killed the common Pakistani would never know.
> 
> The average Indian has to consider that this is the same Army which denied taking ownership of their 'shaheeds' in 99 for months.
> 
> Their NISHAN-E-HAIDER Capt. Sher Khan was given the award on the recommendation of the Indian Army.
> 
> We as a country and as a nation take pride in our values.But not everyone has the same values.



Any way that is none of our business 

All we want is that they must suffer casualties ; and the good thing is that 
the forces finally get the free hand that they have been looking for


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## cerberus

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Pakistani Army is such an organization that even if 100 of their soldiers are killed the common Pakistani would never know.
> 
> The average Indian has to consider that this is the same Army which denied taking ownership of their 'shaheeds' in 99 for months.
> 
> Their NISHAN-E-HAIDER Capt. Sher Khan was given the award on the recommendation of the Indian Army.
> 
> We as a country and as a nation take pride in our values.But not everyone has the same values.


We Don't bother have complain nothing Like they Do

Pakistan has accused India of decapitating 12 soldiers in cross-border attacks since 1998 and registered a protest with a UN watchdog, a newspaper reported Wednesday, after deadly army clashes earlier this month.

its complaint before the UNMOGIP, Pakistan is reported to have accused India of beheading 12 soldiers and killing 29 civilians since 1998.
http://www.dawn.com/news/782394/pakistan-accuses-india-of-12-kashmir-beheadings-report


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## mkb95

source- https://www.facebook.com/Indianparasf/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Khushboo laga k jo 71 mein lee hein...usmay maza kum aya kya ?93000 ka surrender..aur bolte ho ki aur lo?



Every dog has its day ... Tumhara 1000 saal bad civil war mein aya ..

Per kuttay ko kheer roz roz nai milti.

93000 and other Chutiyapa numbers that job pull out of your backside have been discarded several times .. Per tum kuttay ki dum Ho seedhi nai Ho sakti.

But than again even if we talk about any other topic you chutiyas will only fall back to 71 the only so called "victory" your passive kind has seen in the past millennium..



> I have no idea why these morons keep coming back and then i have to share their proud history of SSG from raising white flags in Kashmir in front of our Kashmiri Police in 1965 to loosing Siachen so badly against our normal Infantrymen



Chutiyapa as usual ... 1 guy in a helicopter made an entire indian company POW.. Remember that?


Funny how you boast about pathetic things while forgetting the *** whooping you received at their hands or even 900 paramilitary troops who inflicted heavy casualties on entire divisions supported by airforce and still took months and a withdrawal to save face.




> or surrendering infront of taliban?



Chutiya didn't I own your retarded *** on this claim aswell ? How many times are you going to lie like the kunt you are.


> Aur jyada wintess pay bharosa nahi hota toh 21 Baloch se jakar puch Hindustani Fauj kis maut k farishtay ka naam hain.



Aur "jyada" lol.. Ask them what how you moan when you are done like chickens.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Pakistani Army is such an organization that even if 100 of their soldiers are killed the common Pakistani would never know.



Acha and the families and the nation will keep quiet ?

We are not India that gives prothemous medals to brave soldier who Fukin turn out to be alive in their villages or clowns who blow up their own bunkers,play as dead enemy soldiers to get medals...


> The average Indian has to consider that this is the same Army which denied taking ownership of their 'shaheeds' in 99 for months.




And yet the average Indian and the Indian army chutiya who leaked videos of body exchange ceremony on the Internet which some average Indian chutiya uploaded on YouTube with a doctored title forget the reality while peddling their shit story.



> Their NISHAN-E-HAIDER Capt. Sher Khan was given the award on the recommendation of the Indian Army.



Capt Karnal Sher Khan was already famous for his raids on your soldiers post his Martyrdom those who served in Kargil know that very much .. 


> We as a country and as a nation take pride in our values.But not everyone has the same values.



This see values include wife swapping,rapine,coffin scandal and even garbage trucks.

And last but not the least lying through your teeth..


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Every dog has its day ... Tumhara 1000 saal bad civil war mein aya ..
> 
> Per kuttay ko kheer roz roz nai milti.
> 
> 93000 and other Chutiyapa numbers that job pull out of your backside have been discarded several times .. Per tum kuttay ki dum Ho seedhi nai Ho sakti.
> 
> But than again even if we talk about any other topic you chutiyas will only fall back to 71 the only so called "victory" your passive kind has seen in the past millennium..
> 
> 
> 
> Chutiyapa as usual ... 1 guy in a helicopter made an entire indian company POW.. Remember that?
> 
> 
> Funny how you boast about pathetic things while forgetting the *** whooping you received at their hands or even 900 paramilitary troops who inflicted heavy casualties on entire divisions supported by airforce and still took months and a withdrawal to save face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chutiya didn't I own your retarded *** on this claim aswell ? How many times are you going to lie like the kunt you are.
> 
> 
> Aur "jyada" lol.. Ask them what how you moan when you are done like chickens.
> 
> 
> 
> Acha and the families and the nation will keep quiet ?
> 
> We are not India that gives prothemous medals to brave soldier who Fukin turn out to be alive in their villages or clowns who blow up their own bunkers,play as dead enemy soldiers to get medals...
> 
> 
> 
> And yet the average Indian and the Indian army chutiya who leaked videos of body exchange ceremony on the Internet which some average Indian chutiya uploaded on YouTube with a doctored title forget the reality while peddling their shit story.
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Karnal Sher Khan was already famous for his raids on your soldiers post his Martyrdom those who served in Kargil know that very much ..
> 
> 
> This see values include wife swapping,rapine,coffin scandal and even garbage trucks.
> 
> And last but not the least lying through your teeth..



Which guy in helicopter?I have no idea!

I didnt get owned in anything.Your SSG commandos surrendered in front of taliban and when they came to know they are getting killed then they killed 4 taliban before getting killed.I dont remeber names.

And we dont need a lecture from a Army which uses F-16 and Cobra helicopters along with MBTs to fight terrorists.

Your Army in 71 requested the Indian Army to keep their weapons because they feared the local bangalis would kill them.

And do i need to remind our MR BALOUCH of the % of Balouch men in BALOUCH REGTT..Its full of Punjabis and Sindhis..and you would know better!!

Atleast in India we dont have Biharis in Jammu and Kashmir Rifles!!!

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## Mujraparty

Indian special forces training on a new road in Bhutan’s upper Paro Valley.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

cerberus said:


> We Don't bother have complain nothing Like they Do
> 
> Pakistan has accused India of decapitating 12 soldiers in cross-border attacks since 1998 and registered a protest with a UN watchdog, a newspaper reported Wednesday, after deadly army clashes earlier this month.
> 
> its complaint before the UNMOGIP, Pakistan is reported to have accused India of beheading 12 soldiers and killing 29 civilians since 1998.
> http://www.dawn.com/news/782394/pakistan-accuses-india-of-12-kashmir-beheadings-report



Look Beheadings are more common than they seem.It was even common in the 90s.

I believe(and i might be wrong) that beheading were started by Pakistanis because of a cultural thing?

Anyway i know many incidents where beheading were done starting from 98/2003-2004/2012 etc.

SInce i am from Army background i would not say that all the dirty things are done by them only.We retaliate and take care of things.Just under Modi the Myanamar raid was publicised otherswise these things were happening since a long time!

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## Armoured Division

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How did it feel when they paraded the heads of Indian officers and soldiers as revenge for the raid n massacre of innocent civilians in Lanjot by indian troops. (The only episode where pics were made public and can still be found on the Internet)... Notoriously the head of the CO was presented to Musharaf... At least that's what rumours were circulating..
> Thankfully 2003 ceasefire was announced and the LOC remained peaceful till your BJP clowns came to power through undo it.. And what is following is more violence and likely return of the 90s.
> 
> They shoved sticks and paraded the heads in the village of the martyrs.
> 
> 
> As for your fake news ... Kabhi aao na khushbo laga k.
> 
> 
> Talking on Internet is cheap..
> 
> I myself am witness to the encounter and subsequent killing of your "northern alliance" buddies in ANA by FC... We didn't even let em pick the bodies till late in the evening..
> 
> 
> The hoopla about US raid.. I don't know the exact details but you n we all know you aren't "USA" nor are we going to keep quiet and let you get away..
> 
> 
> 1 little mistake .. First we will blast your "invading" troops or aircraft followed by counter strikes on Indian targets... And it will lead to a conventional conflict or a full fledged war.
> 
> @Irfan Baloch. Anything you will like to add sir .. As a former PA officer.


We avenged the beheading incident in Nadala raid where we captured seven of your soldiers, tied them with a rope and dragged them across a rocky ravine.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Which guy in helicopter?I have no idea!


General Naseerullah Khan Babar than a Lt Col mistakenly landed at an Indian base in his chopper and bluffed them into thinking they were surrounded and than marched then 10 clicks to the Pak troops..



> I didnt get owned in anything.Your SSG commandos surrendered in front of taliban and when they came to know they are getting killed then they killed 4 taliban before getting killed.I dont remeber names.



 so they surrender and when they came to know they are getting killed they killed the Taliban ? Heck of a story ... Did you make it up?


> And we dont need a lecture from a Army which uses F-16 and Cobra helicopters along with MBTs to fight terrorists.




We aren't fighting 4 guys with a brigade now are we? Neither do we keep almost a million troops in a small area fenced and mined on one side and hindutva Bharat on the other.

We have successfully done the job compared to NATO fighting with much heavier weapons and trillions in budget in the same neighborhood!




> Your Army in 71 requested the Indian Army to keep their weapons because they feared the local bangalis would kill them.



And according to you indian troops are so scared they don't even drink tea from civies in IOK ? Ironic.


> And do i need to remind our MR BALOUCH of the % of Balouch men in BALOUCH REGTT..Its full of Punjabis and Sindhis..and you would know better!!



Really ? No Pakistani regiment has more than 50% troops from the same ethnicity .. We don't have a caste based army unlike you.

Baloch regiment has 50% Baloch troops and the rest 50% come from other ethnic backgrounds.


> Atleast in India we dont have Biharis in Jammu and Kashmir Rifles!!!




How would I know so called Jammu and Kashmir rifle troops don't look like Kashmiris either ..
These officers look more Bihari or southbindian than Kashmiris (even Kashmiri Hindus and settler Sikhs which make up the regiment);









Armoured Division said:


> We avenged the beheading incident in Nadala raid where we captured seven of your soldiers, tied them with a rope and dragged them across a rocky ravine.



I can make more stories ... But unlike you I believe what I see not what I hear...


Even if you see the past LOC violations or cross fires .. You will notice that unlike indian troops we don't target civilians we kill your soldiers and in a larger ratio .. Although you don't have any shame and target civilian areas and inflict more civilian casualties..

Even the beheadings (pics available) of 98 of your troops were a retaliation for the massacre of civilians including minors as young as 4.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> General Naseerullah Khan Babar than a Lt Col mistakenly landed at an Indian base in his chopper and bluffed them into thinking they were surrounded and than marched then 10 clicks to the Pak troops..
> 
> 
> 
> so they surrender and when they came to know they are getting killed they killed the Taliban ? Heck of a story ... Did you make it up?
> 
> 
> 
> We aren't fighting 4 guys with a brigade now are we? Neither do we keep almost a million troops in a small area fenced and mined on one side and hindutva Bharat on the other.
> 
> We have successfully done the job compared to NATO fighting with much heavier weapons and trillions in budget in the same neighborhood!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And according to you indian troops are so scared they don't even drink tea from civies in IOK ? Ironic.
> 
> 
> Really ? No Pakistani regiment has more than 50% troops from the same ethnicity .. We don't have a caste based army unlike you.
> 
> Baloch regiment has 50% Baloch troops and the rest 50% come from other ethnic backgrounds.
> 
> 
> 
> How would I know so called Jammu and Kashmir rifle troops don't look like Kashmiris either ..
> These officers look more Bihari or southbindian than Kashmiris (even Kashmiri Hindus and settler Sikhs which make up the regiment);
> 
> View attachment 337842



Yeh le padh lay aur khush ho jaa..ab bol who owned whom?

https://defence.pk/threads/ssg-heroes-killed-eight-taliban-before-they-were-shot.26822/

I mean no disrespect to them.I salute their sacrifice for their country and i respect soldiers from every country.

Regarding the incident of helicopter we have done similar things too..big deal?Our infantryman killed your brigade commander in 65 and the GOC was injured.

Having food from restaurants and filling fuel from gas stations is not allowed in the Indian Army and these are SOPs of a very professional Army!! You of all the people making such a comment is shocking since your dad is in the Army.

Baloch regtt is 20% Balouch according to one source.Here is a pic of Jammu and Kashmir rifles.






All are Kashmiris and some people from Jammu are not so fair!

Regarding the officers you are right.We send officers mostly to units where they dont belong to.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Look Beheadings are more common than they seem.It was even common in the 90s.
> 
> I believe(and i might be wrong) that beheading were started by Pakistanis because of a cultural thing?
> 
> Anyway i know many incidents where beheading were done starting from 98/2003-2004/2012 etc.
> 
> SInce i am from Army background i would not say that all the dirty things are done by them only.We retaliate and take care of things.Just under Modi the Myanamar raid was publicised otherswise these things were happening since a long time!



You have no shame do you?

The so called beheadings of Pakistani "soldiers" and "how does you own blood feel" chutiyapa was done by your soldiers to civilians in 25 february 2000 to civilians .. The oldest couple in their 90 and the youngest 2 year old child whose limbs were severed by swines..

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You have no shame do you?
> 
> The so called beheadings of Pakistani "soldiers" and "how does you own blood feel" chutiyapa was done by your soldiers to civilians in 25 february 2000 to civilians .. The oldest couple in their 90 and the youngest 2 year old child whose limbs were severed by swines..



That is a lie.After the DODA massacre it was done.Do you watch only PTV bro?


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## Armoured Division

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> General Naseerullah Khan Babar than a Lt Col mistakenly landed at an Indian base in his chopper and bluffed them into thinking they were surrounded and than marched then 10 clicks to the Pak troops..
> 
> 
> 
> so they surrender and when they came to know they are getting killed they killed the Taliban ? Heck of a story ... Did you make it up?
> 
> 
> 
> We aren't fighting 4 guys with a brigade now are we? Neither do we keep almost a million troops in a small area fenced and mined on one side and hindutva Bharat on the other.
> 
> We have successfully done the job compared to NATO fighting with much heavier weapons and trillions in budget in the same neighborhood!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And according to you indian troops are so scared they don't even drink tea from civies in IOK ? Ironic.
> 
> 
> Really ? No Pakistani regiment has more than 50% troops from the same ethnicity .. We don't have a caste based army unlike you.
> 
> Baloch regiment has 50% Baloch troops and the rest 50% come from other ethnic backgrounds.
> 
> 
> 
> How would I know so called Jammu and Kashmir rifle troops don't look like Kashmiris either ..
> These officers look more Bihari or southbindian than Kashmiris (even Kashmiri Hindus and settler Sikhs which make up the regiment);
> 
> View attachment 337842
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can make more stories ... But unlike you I believe what I see not what I hear...
> 
> 
> Even if you see the past LOC violations or cross fires .. You will notice that unlike indian troops we don't target civilians we kill your soldiers and in a larger ratio .. Although you don't have any shame and target civilian areas and inflict more civilian casualties..
> 
> Even the beheadings (pics available) of 98 of your troops were a retaliation for the massacre of civilians including minors as young as 4.


Your own army officer reported this:


> Six months after the Kargil war, on the night of January 21-22, 2000, seven Pakistani soldiers were reported to have been captured in a raid on a post in the Nadala enclave, across the Neelam River. The seven soldiers, wounded in fire, were allegedly tied up and dragged across a ravine running across the LoC. The bodies were returned, according to Pakistan’s complaint, bearing signs of brutal torture.
> “Pakistan chose to underplay the Nadala incident,” a senior Pakistani military officer involved with its Military Operations Directorate said adding that, “as General Pervez Musharraf had only recently staged his coup, and did not want a public outcry that would spark a crisis with India.”

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Yeh le padh lay aur khush ho jaa..ab bol who owned whom?
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/ssg-heroes-killed-eight-taliban-before-they-were-shot.26822/
> 
> I mean no disrespect to them.I salute their sacrifice for their country and i respect soldiers from every country.



This happened during peace negotiations when the govt had ordered the army to stand down as they negotiated peace with Taliban in Swat


I met the colleague of these 4 SSG soldiers...

These troops were going back after serving in swat or fulfilling their rotation ... 

The troops went shopping in civilian clothes and than to click pics on the mountains without arms...

The Taliban came and asked them to accompany them as their guests!

The troops called back to HQ and the HQ tried the local police chief who guaranteed that no action was to be taken as he had talked to the Taliban who have assured them that they would be treated as their guests ..

After their heroic martyrdom .. The operation started and those involved were literally butchered...

Identified,tortured ... Later their throats slit and thrown from choppers.


> Regarding the incident of helicopter we have done similar things too..big deal?Our infantryman killed your brigade commander in 65 and the GOC was injured.



BE asusual ... Reminds me of the indian GOC incharge of Lahore sector ... The guy literally ran and hid in sugarcane fields .. Masked his face with mud,ripped his ranks and was later found by another gen who asked him if he was a GOC or a coolie.



> Having food from restaurants and filling fuel from gas stations is not allowed in the Indian Army and these are SOPs of a very professional Army!! You of all the people making such a comment is shocking since your dad is in the Army.



I'm specifically talking about civilians not restaurants etc..

And no we don't stop our troops from having lunch or dinner at restaurants... Unless the regiment is on move.


> Baloch regtt is 20% Balouch according to one source.Here is a pic of Jammu and Kashmir rifles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All are Kashmiris and some people from Jammu are not so fair!
> 
> Regarding the officers you are right.We send officers mostly to units where they dont belong to.



Which source may the be ?

Pak inducted over 40K Baloch troops in the past 4 years alone...

Even Sindh has Baloch tribes.. Because Sindh was ruled by Talpur dynasty.. And today a large percentage of Sindhis is of Baluch origin ... Be it Zardaris,Gabols,Talipurs or other tribes.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> That is a lie.After the DODA massacre it was done.Do you watch only PTV bro?



BS; your own media exaggerating n boasting ;


http://indianexpress.com/article/ex...ective-a-short-history-of-indian-special-ops/

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> This happened during peace negotiations when the govt had ordered the army to stand down as they negotiated peace with Taliban in Swat
> 
> 
> I met the colleague of these 4 SSG soldiers...
> 
> These troops were going back after serving in swat or fulfilling their rotation ...
> 
> The troops went shopping in civilian clothes and than to click pics on the mountains without arms...
> 
> The Taliban came and asked them to accompany them as their guests!
> 
> The troops called back to HQ and the HQ tried the local police chief who guaranteed that no action was to be taken as he had talked to the Taliban who have assured them that they would be treated as their guests ..
> 
> After their heroic martyrdom .. The operation started and those involved were literally butchered...
> 
> Identified,tortured ... Later their throats slit and thrown from choppers.
> 
> 
> BE asusual ... Reminds me of the indian GOC incharge of Lahore sector ... The guy literally ran and hid in sugarcane fields .. Masked his face with mud,ripped his ranks and was later found by another gen who asked him if he was a GOC or a coolie.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm specifically talking about civilians not restaurants etc..
> 
> And no we don't stop our troops from having lunch or dinner at restaurants... Unless the regiment is on move.
> 
> 
> Which source may the be ?
> 
> Pak inducted over 40K Baloch troops in the past 4 years alone...
> 
> Even Sindh has Baloch tribes.. Because Sindh was ruled by Talpur dynasty.. And today a large percentage of Sindhis is of Baluch origin ... Be it Zardaris,Gabols,Talipurs or other tribes.
> 
> 
> 
> BS;
> 
> 
> http://indianexpress.com/article/ex...ective-a-short-history-of-indian-special-ops/





> Naushad, 71, of 4 Grenadiers is credited with killing a Pakistani artillery brigadier.* He and his team had taken position in the cotton crop fields when he saw a Pakistani jeep, carrying Major* *General Nasir Ahmed Khan, chief of the 1 Armoured Division, along with a brigadier, coming towards the tanks. “The brigadier was driving and the driver was in the rear seat, and I sensed an opportunity,” says Naushad. “I opened fire at the jeep with my light machine gun. I kept firing and emptied two magazines on the Pakistani brigadier and when I stopped, I saw that his head had fallen off. The major general somehow managed to escape.”*




https://defence.pk/threads/1965-war...d-a-pakistani-brigadier.398195/#ixzz4LFr5fUuW

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO

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## Joe Shearer

@DESERT FIGHTER 

I understand that these matters move you deeply. You can still keep your language clean; civil is too much to expect in these troubled times, but coarseness and vulgarity do not go well with the patriotic sentiments that you had expressed along with these terms. 

The story of the commandos who were killed treacherously by the TTP was public, and was reported in PDF as well. They died like heroes. Whether or not their deaths were avenged, and how these were avenged, have no bearing on their heroism. For you to descend to describing the gruesome way in which their killers were in turn killed displays the grossness with which some people approach these; not as professional spirit, but as the spirit of the members of a bloodthirsty mob. 

For your information, the first beheading was done by Ilyas Kashmiri, and he was rewarded for it by General Musharraf, in a public meeting. Shame on such a general. And shame on those that approve rewards for these acts.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> I understand that these matters move you deeply. You can still keep your language clean; civil is too much to expect in these troubled times, but coarseness and vulgarity do not go well with the patriotic sentiments that you had expressed along with these terms.
> 
> The story of the commandos who were killed treacherously by the TTP was public, and was reported in PDF as well. They died like heroes. Whether or not their deaths were avenged, and how these were avenged, have no bearing on their heroism. For you to descend to describing the gruesome way in which their killers were in turn killed displays the grossness with which some people approach these; not as professional spirit, but as the spirit of the members of a bloodthirsty mob.
> 
> For your information, the first beheading was done by Ilyas Kashmiri, and he was rewarded for it by General Musharraf, in a public meeting. Shame on such a general. And shame on those that approve rewards for these acts.



Sir shame is a 2 way street ... Don't expect the other party have shame when your own generals come on national tv and talk about beheading and keeping head of a soldier as regimental trophy.

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## Joe Shearer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sir shame is a 2 way street ... Don't expect the other party have shame when your own generals come on national tv and talk about beheading and keeping head of a soldier as regimental trophy.



Who said that, and when? If someone did, it is utterly unbecoming and horribly shameful. But can you please tell me more? Such a thing would have hit the headlines, surely? Are you sure? It is outrageous.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> Who said that, and when? If someone did, it is utterly unbecoming and horribly shameful. But can you please tell me more? Such a thing would have hit the headlines, surely? Are you sure? It is outrageous.



Happened on Burkha Dutts show .. Guests were general from your tri services with them confessing the incident ...


Will have to find the video clip .. It's pretty old..

https://defence.pk/threads/indian-beheading-of-pakistani-soldiers.230211/


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## Joe Shearer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Happened on Burkha Dutts show .. Guests were general from your tri services with them confessing the incident ...
> 
> 
> Will have to find the video clip .. It's pretty old..



I don't think so. I think I know what you are referring to, and it didn't happen quite that way. I don't know if you are aware that the field level officer, not a general, was reprimanded for that action once the news became public.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> I don't think so. I think I know what you are referring to, and it didn't happen quite that way. I don't know if you are aware that the field level officer, not a general, was reprimanded for that action once the news became public.



A bridge commander isn't a mid level officer :.. He commands almost 3000 troops... And I'm sure the brigade HQ isn't some hidden place where nobody except low level officers visit...


Your own friend cold hearted was boasting about the beheadings of civilians & even troops on the previous pages..

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## Joe Shearer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> A bridge commander isn't a mid level officer :.. He commands almost 3000 troops... And I'm sure the brigade HQ isn't some hidden place where nobody except low level officers visit...
> 
> 
> Your own friend cold hearted was boasting about the beheadings of civilians & even troops on the previous pages..



I specifically mentioned a field officer. Brigadiers are general officers. It may sound strange to you, but I do know the difference. It was not a Brigadier. 

All Indians are NOT my friends. Nor are all Pakistanis. My friends are people I select, and people who select me, and they are few and far between, and are equally balanced between both nationalities. So, I don't care what some other Indian might have said; except for those who have served and are in the know of things, please ignore childish bragging and dick measuring attempts. This kind of brutality is certainly nothing to compete about.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> I specifically mentioned a field officer. Brigadiers are general officers. It may sound strange to you, but I do know the difference. It was not a Brigadier.



I know it was a Lt Col and the severed head of the slain soldier was displayed outside the brigade HQ where the Brigade Commander sits ..

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## Joe Shearer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I know it was a Lt Col and the severed head of the slain soldier was displayed outside the brigade HQ where the Brigade Commander sits ..



Let me make it clear.

No decent person will support such behaviour. This is criminally insane. I do know of an incident that BD reported, not on a live talk show, but reported, without any other witnesses, and I do know that the Lt. Col. (you are right, you have probably traced the incident by now) was reprimanded for conduct unbecoming of an officer. As you know, that is the level where the slightest difference can see you retiring as a full Colonel, max. You can imagine what happened to him, and you can imagine that the unit cleaned up its act immediately.

I wrote what I did to you more in sorrow than in anger. It is not a good thing to play tit for tat with the lives of our soldiers; I couldn't care a damn whether it is one wearing olive green or one wearing khaki. Both are soldiers, and both deserve respect, in both their lives and in their deaths. It isn't decent to talk about it in those terms either.

You may remember the Sonia Jabbar blog that I had posted in the Senior Cafe. That sort of sums up my position on the matter,and I daresay that if you ask anybody who has served or had served, they will agree. 

This was at some length, because it is important that you understand that this is not a Pakistani vs. Indian point of view at all. It is a humanity vs. inhuman issue. I want you to be on the right side, irrespective of who else is in which position.

Is that a bad thing to want?

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## RPK



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> A bridge commander isn't a mid level officer :.. He commands almost 3000 troops... And I'm sure the brigade HQ isn't some hidden place where nobody except low level officers visit...
> 
> 
> Your own friend cold hearted was boasting about the beheadings of civilians & even troops on the previous pages..



When did i boast of it like you telling about the slit throat incident?

I just say it happens and i also used the word 'dirty'!!

I even said it is in retaliation to what Pakistanis do.And i believe it is a Islamic thing to behead enemy in war!!



> Look Beheadings are more common than they seem.It was even common in the 90s.
> 
> I believe(and i might be wrong) that beheading were started by Pakistanis because of a cultural thing?
> 
> Anyway i know many incidents where beheading were done starting from 98/2003-2004/2012 etc.
> 
> SInce i am from Army background i would not say that all the dirty things are done by them only.We retaliate and take care of things.Just under Modi the Myanamar raid was publicised otherswise these things were happening since a long time!



If this is bragging for you then God help your English!!


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## Foxbat Alok

Para sf target practice on Pakistani ranger

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Foxbat Alok said:


> Para sf target practice on Pakistani ranger


haha i noticed that too while watching it on Discovery channel.

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## Abingdonboy

Foxbat Alok said:


> Para sf target practice on Pakistani ranger


Noticed that at the time but chose to not mention it

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## R!CK

Off Topic:

A thought that amuses me: According to very few bright Pakistani friends, their military is the best, god-gifted, second to none blah blah and every other country military have no chance to win a conventional war against them. While I admire their patriotism, a question arises in my mind. Why would a military so advanced and second to none, threaten about tactical nuclear missiles at the outset of a conventional war?

Its like a hypothetical situation of US army threatening Mexico about nuclear missiles if they ever attack american land? Asif US army cant beat Mexico in a conventional war. So if Pakistani military is this god's army like some naive people think, why do they feel it necessary to threaten about nuclear missiles? Why don't they have a No first use policy like India? Why do they think their superior army cant win a conventional war with inferior IA?

P.S: Don't bring history into discussion, makes no sense to discuss it considering that the tactical missile threat is not from the past. But I seriously find it funny when someone says they are this and that, and yet they resort something as deadly as nuclear strikes. Why do they not think that they can take down any IA aggression in a conventional war without nukes? What these fanboys don't realize is that a tactical nuclear missile is a 'Start' button to full nuclear war.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Joe Shearer @MilSpec @Nilgiri

Apologize in advance if its not an appropriate question.

Good Day!

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## Nilgiri

R!CK said:


> Off Topic:
> 
> A thought that amuses me: According to very few bright Pakistani friends, their military is the best, god-gifted, second to none blah blah and every other country military have no chance to win a conventional war against them. While I admire their patriotism, a question arises in my mind. Why would a military so advanced and second to none, threaten about tactical nuclear missiles at the outset of a conventional war?
> 
> Its like a hypothetical situation of US army threatening Mexico about nuclear missiles if they ever attack american land? Asif US army cant beat Mexico in a conventional war. So if Pakistani military is this god's army like some naive people think, why do they feel it necessary to threaten about nuclear missiles? Why don't they have a No first use policy like India? Why do they think their superior army cant win a conventional war with inferior IA?
> 
> P.S: Don't bring history into discussion, makes no sense to discuss it considering that the tactical missile threat is not from the past. But I seriously find it funny when someone says they are this and that, and yet they resort something as deadly as nuclear strikes. Why do they not think that they can take down any IA aggression in a conventional war without nukes? What these fanboys don't realize is that a tactical nuclear missile is a 'Start' button to full nuclear war.
> 
> @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Joe Shearer @MilSpec @Nilgiri
> 
> Apologize in advance if its not an appropriate question.
> 
> Good Day!



So what are you exactly asking? Why is human nature the way it is?

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## cerberus

Foxbat Alok said:


> Porkish are knows


I think Edit this word My friend Its PDF nor IDF

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## mkb95

para

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## Jamwal's

ITBP as diplomatic security cover - Afghanistan

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Indian Special Forces attack terrorist camps.Pakistani Army soldiers believed to be killed who were present there or saving them.Artillery fire aided the SF.

Proud of Para SF.

We may not be as equipped as DEVGRU but we can still get the job done!!!!

Heavy casualties expected on their side.

Reports coming in:-

Teams were para dropped.

Op started 1230am and ended at 4 30 am.

Range 500m to 2kms

Pak Army initially not engaged but Pak Army self invited themselves and suffered casualties.

No Indian casualty.

Arty used

8 days of plannng.

Multiple terror camps destroyed.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Indian Special Forces attack terrorist camps.Pakistani Army soldiers believed to be killed who were present there or saving them.Artillery fire aided the SF.
> 
> Proud of Para SF.
> 
> We may not be as equipped as DEVGRU but we can still get the job done!!!!
> 
> Heavy casualties expected on their side.
> 
> Reports coming in:-
> 
> Teams were para dropped.
> 
> Op started 1230am and ended at 4 30 am.
> 
> Range 500m to 2kms
> 
> Pak Army initially not engaged but Pak Army self invited themselves and suffered casualties.
> 
> No Indian casualty.
> 
> Arty used
> 
> 8 days of plannng.
> 
> Multiple terror camps destroyed.



dude if you remember somedays before I was asking you why cant we go public on the operation done on LOC like we did in Myanmar and now Modi/doval has done it . This is what a government with a spine will do and ya as usual all Indians are very proud of our Jawans/ PARA SF rocks

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> dude if you remember somedays before I was asking you why cant we go public on the operation done on LOC like we did in Myanmar and now Modi/doval has done it . This is what a government with a spine will do and ya as usual all Indians are very proud of our Jawans/ PARA SF rocks


The reason to be proud are also because:-

SF was Para dropped
We all praise Israeli SF for being bold but this is as bold as it gets.Pak Army is not Hezbollah.Crossing LOC which has hundred thousand PAK soldiers who have radar coverage,attack helos and F-16s.

No casualties.

Pak Army couldnt even retaliate because they were taken out in surprise.They will show 2 soldiers killed here and x number in eastern border to hide their inefficiency.

Lastly multiple places with multiple teams required excellent co ordination.

I used to think in such a attack there are good chances of Indian SF being killed or being injured and captured but nothing happened!

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## Jamwal's

Thank You Brothers




*And Joint Para and Gharwal Rifles LOC long range patrol day after URI - I am not claiming this is the same team.

On the left is P O K










*




*
Mar Gaye ***** * 

Lessons learn from IPKF Lanka - smaller the SF team bigger the results. Love to share some dead bodies.

RPO A Bumblebee (thermobaric) used extensively and also this

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> Thank You Brothers
> 
> View attachment 338985
> 
> 
> 
> *And Joint Para and Gharwal Rifles LOC long range patrol day after URI - I am not claiming this is the same team.
> 
> On the left is P O K
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 338986
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Mar Gaye Saley*
> 
> Lessons learn from IPKF Lanka - smaller the SF team bigger the results. Love to share some dead bodies.
> 
> RPO A Bumblebee (thermobaric) used extensively and also this
> 
> 
> View attachment 338995



*The guy whose pic you put is Para SF i assume but is he no more?*

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Latest news coming in:-

150 PARA SF Operators crossed.(5 teams)
No Para drop(makes sense)..8km trek
UAVs used
Pak Army soldiers were present in the terror camps.
2 teams came back at 6:30AM
3 teams came back at 8:30 AM

9 PAK Army troops and 35-40 terrorist killed.

Not even a scratch on our side despite RPG,machine guns used by them.

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## Jamwal's

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> *The guy whose pic you put is Para SF i assume but is he no more?*



No brother. Ex servicemen you can say.

But He is Alive and Kicking.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> No brother. Ex servicemen you can say.
> 
> But He is Alive and Kicking.


I am really happy to hear that.

No offenses but don't you think it might affect his security if you post his picture on this forum?

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## Jamwal's

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Latest news coming in:-
> 
> 150 PARA SF Operators crossed.(5 teams)
> No Para drop(makes sense)..8km trek
> UAVs used
> Pak Army soldiers were present in the terror camps.
> 2 teams came back at 6:30AM
> 3 teams came back at 8:30 AM
> 
> 9 PAK Army troops and 35-40 terrorist killed.
> 
> Not even a scratch on our side despite RPG,machine guns used by them.




India will never claim that Pak regular are killed during the raid.

The only place to know this is to see inside their officers mess where their weapons, insignias are kept as war trophy.

Remember India never claim to behaed Pak troops in Kargil only war reporters like Sankarshan Thakur and Burkha Dutt reported it who saw it in Mughalpura Camp. This is part of war.

Mostly by Naga troops called Head Hunters.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am really happy to hear that.
> 
> No offenses but don't you think it might affect his security if you post his picture on this forum?


Absolutely right.

And done.

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## noksss

According to sources, the operation began at around mid-night on Wednesday and ended at around 4.30am on Thursday morning * . *The terror launch pads targeted were in the range of 2 to 3km from the Line of Control(LoC).
* They were under surveillance for over one week.* *The operation was a combination of heliborne and ground forces. Special forces of the Army were para-dropped for the operation. *There were no Indian casualties during the strikes. According to Pakistan's Inter Services Public Relations+ , *the Indian operation was carried out in Bhimber, Hotspring, Kel & Lipa sectors on Pakistan's side of the LoC.*

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...r-launch-pads-at-LoC/articleshow/54579618.cms

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Levina

*According to Times Now, 35-40 terrorists and 9 Pak Army men were killed in the strikes.* 
I am sure the casualties are much more than what's reported

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## Jamwal's

SHBO not Para drop. Different things

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## Levina

noksss said:


> According to sources, the operation began at around mid-night on Wednesday and ended at around 4.30am on Thursday morning * . *The terror launch pads targeted were in the range of 2 to 3km from the Line of Control(LoC).
> * They were under surveillance for over one week.* *The operation was a combination of heliborne and ground forces. Special forces of the Army were para-dropped for the operation. *There were no Indian casualties during the strikes. According to Pakistan's Inter Services Public Relations+ , *the Indian operation was carried out in Bhimber, Hotspring, Kel & Lipa sectors on Pakistan's side of the LoC.*
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...r-launch-pads-at-LoC/articleshow/54579618.cms
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Levina
> 
> *According to Times Now, 35-40 terrorists and 9 Pak Army men were killed in the strikes.*
> I am sure the casualties are much more than what's reported


From what I heard the op was conducted around 3am.
Total number close to 50, so that tallies (40+9).



Jamwal's said:


> SHBO not Para drop. Different things


Right.
Para drop will be risky.


Edit: 
Some more info>>>
Targets were not heavily fortified. 
The speed with which US came into picture proves that the attack was not mere "shelling".

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> According to sources, the operation began at around mid-night on Wednesday and ended at around 4.30am on Thursday morning * . *The terror launch pads targeted were in the range of 2 to 3km from the Line of Control(LoC).
> * They were under surveillance for over one week.* *The operation was a combination of heliborne and ground forces. Special forces of the Army were para-dropped for the operation. *There were no Indian casualties during the strikes. According to Pakistan's Inter Services Public Relations+ , *the Indian operation was carried out in Bhimber, Hotspring, Kel & Lipa sectors on Pakistan's side of the LoC.*
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...r-launch-pads-at-LoC/articleshow/54579618.cms
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Levina
> 
> *According to Times Now, 35-40 terrorists and 9 Pak Army men were killed in the strikes.*
> I am sure the casualties are much more than what's reported


I have been home all day and this is what is my understanding of the situation after watching many channels:-

*Around 20th the decision to hit back is taken.
*RAW gets human INT of the 5 Launch Pads.They are monitored for 7 days.
*27th Sept night is finalized but due to reasons unknown its delayed.
*MY GUESS..2nd,9th or the 4th PARA or all are asked to contribute teams.
*5 teams are chosen and the practice or mock drills begin.(150 operators)
*Meanwhile war games are rehearsed.

Now the attack:-

29th Sept at 1500 hours the operators start trekking.The targets are located at 3 kms from the posts but the trek is of 8 kms.The reason being that long route will prevent the Pak Army posts.Soldiers trek 8 kms in 12 hours.This gives an indication how stealthily,smartly they moved to avoid detection.

The first bullet is fired by the sentry of the launch pad.Para SF fire shoulder fired missiles and machine guns.Pak Army soldiers present are also neutralised.UAVs were monitoring everything.

The final count stands at 35-40 terrorists and 8-9 Pak Army regulars.

The operators cross back into India and the Indian Army forward posts are asked to engage Pakistani posts so that the operators can have a safe passage.

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## saumyasupratik

Jamwal's said:


> Thank You Brothers
> RPO A Bumblebee (thermobaric) used extensively and also this



Hi. Where's the RPO-A photo?


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## Jamwal's

No such official pic released by Army. That BFS radar pic is my personal pic belong to Dogra regt. Not related to this raid.


Similar Radar in service with Para.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How did it feel when they paraded the heads of Indian officers and soldiers as revenge for the raid n massacre of innocent civilians in Lanjot by indian troops. (The only episode where pics were made public and can still be found on the Internet)... Notoriously the head of the CO was presented to Musharaf... At least that's what rumours were circulating..
> Thankfully 2003 ceasefire was announced and the LOC remained peaceful till your BJP clowns came to power through undo it.. And what is following is more violence and likely return of the 90s.
> 
> They shoved sticks and paraded the heads in the village of the martyrs.
> 
> 
> As for your fake news ... Kabhi aao na khushbo laga k.
> 
> 
> Talking on Internet is cheap..
> 
> I myself am witness to the encounter and subsequent killing of your "northern alliance" buddies in ANA by FC... We didn't even let em pick the bodies till late in the evening..
> 
> 
> The hoopla about US raid.. I don't know the exact details but you n we all know you aren't "USA" nor are we going to keep quiet and let you get away..
> 
> 
> 1 little mistake .. First we will blast your "invading" troops or aircraft followed by counter strikes on Indian targets... And it will lead to a conventional conflict or a full fledged war.
> 
> @Irfan Baloch. Anything you will like to add sir .. As a former PA officer.


We don't glorify beheadings unlike Mushy.

*On topic:*
The modus operandi looks similar to the one carried-out by 21 Para(SF), only the strength was higher. The men has to be from 9 and 4 Para, considering their battalion hq in J&K itself.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando

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## noksss

Jamwal's said:


> SHBO not Para drop. Different things



What is


COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have been home all day and this is what is my understanding of the situation after watching many channels:-
> 
> *Around 20th the decision to hit back is taken.
> *RAW gets human INT of the 5 Launch Pads.They are monitored for 7 days.
> *27th Sept night is finalized but due to reasons unknown its delayed.
> *MY GUESS..2nd,9th or the 4th PARA or all are asked to contribute teams.
> *5 teams are chosen and the practice or mock drills begin.(150 operators)
> *Meanwhile war games are rehearsed.
> 
> Now the attack:-
> 
> 29th Sept at 1500 hours the operators start trekking.The targets are located at 3 kms from the posts but the trek is of 8 kms.The reason being that long route will prevent the Pak Army posts.Soldiers trek 8 kms in 12 hours.This gives an indication how stealthily,smartly they moved to avoid detection.
> 
> The first bullet is fired by the sentry of the launch pad.Para SF fire shoulder fired missiles and machine guns.Pak Army soldiers present are also neutralised.UAVs were monitoring everything.
> 
> The final count stands at 35-40 terrorists and 8-9 Pak Army regulars.
> 
> The operators cross back into India and the Indian Army forward posts are asked to engage Pakistani posts so that the operators can have a safe passage.



But you were claiming some days before that PA was well prepared and we cant do such an Ops without taking casualties on our side . Now that we have done it without any causalities what your view on this ? Something worked out in our favor ? or you consider this as an textbook Ops to be recorded for future study


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## Levina

noksss said:


> What is
> 
> 
> But you were claiming some days before that PA was well prepared and we cant do such an Ops without taking casualties on our side . Now that we have done it without any causalities what your view on this ? Something worked out in our favor ? or you consider this as an textbook Ops to be recorded for future study



You know what?
I read another report which said our men were paradropped and that drones were used to record the attack.







@Jamwal's FYI



http://m.indiatoday.in/story/indias-surgical-strike-across-loc-all-you-want-to-know/1/776039.html



noksss said:


> we have done it without any causalities what your view on this ? Something worked out in our favor ? o


The report says 2 soldiers were injured by mines.

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## born

As per reports the targets were located 5 Km from LOC . Couldn't we use smart munitions like _Krasnopol _to accurately strike these areas .


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## Bratva

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I have been home all day and this is what is my understanding of the situation after watching many channels:-
> 
> *Around 20th the decision to hit back is taken.
> *RAW gets human INT of the 5 Launch Pads.They are monitored for 7 days.
> *27th Sept night is finalized but due to reasons unknown its delayed.
> *MY GUESS..2nd,9th or the 4th PARA or all are asked to contribute teams.
> *5 teams are chosen and the practice or mock drills begin.(150 operators)
> *Meanwhile war games are rehearsed.
> 
> Now the attack:-
> 
> 29th Sept at 1500 hours the operators start trekking.The targets are located at 3 kms from the posts but the trek is of 8 kms.The reason being that long route will prevent the Pak Army posts.Soldiers trek 8 kms in 12 hours.This gives an indication how stealthily,smartly they moved to avoid detection.
> 
> The first bullet is fired by the sentry of the launch pad.Para SF fire shoulder fired missiles and machine guns.Pak Army soldiers present are also neutralised.UAVs were monitoring everything.
> 
> The final count stands at 35-40 terrorists and 8-9 Pak Army regulars.
> 
> The operators cross back into India and the Indian Army forward posts are asked to engage Pakistani posts so that the operators can have a safe passage.



I mean, Do you even think for a minute how all of this sounds so absurd ? Considering both PAF and PA are on high alert. Cross border Low altitude movements were and are put on high Alert due to High mark exercises as well as the possibility of this situation ? 

And Laughable claims are being made Indians did this and that without any scratch as if Phantom movie is being replayed all over.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Indian Special Forces attack terrorist camps.Pakistani Army soldiers believed to be killed who were present there or saving them.Artillery fire aided the SF.
> 
> Proud of Para SF.
> 
> We may not be as equipped as DEVGRU but we can still get the job done!!!!
> 
> Heavy casualties expected on their side.
> 
> Reports coming in:-
> 
> Teams were para dropped.
> 
> Op started 1230am and ended at 4 30 am.
> 
> Range 500m to 2kms
> 
> Pak Army initially not engaged but Pak Army self invited themselves and suffered casualties.
> 
> No Indian casualty.
> 
> Arty used
> 
> 8 days of plannng.
> 
> Multiple terror camps destroyed.




@graphican post

Debunking Indian Claims of “Surgical Strike” in Pakistan.

Let any Indian general or representative come forward and answer these questions.


*Where did India conducted this surgical strike?*
India says it had credible evidence of terrorists who were to cross LOC. Why not show those locations to the world as well and prove they actually existed - which Indian needs desperately to prove its point that Pakistan is sponsoring terrorism in India. Why is India not proving Pakistan a terrorist sponsoring state using evidence of location which it destroyed? India has no answer.

*India claims it destroyed "terrorist launch-pads" – How do they look like?*
Were they buildings, bunkers, rooms, hide-outs or runway strips? India has no answer.

*India claims it destroyed 5-6 “Terrorist” launch pads.*
When India was so sure that it conducted operation across Pakistan, why is there a confusion between number 5 and 6? – Why is it itself confused?


*Were all launch-pads standing together or distant from each other?*
5-6 locations means they have to be distant from each other and India conducted at least 5-6 operations to neutralise them. How India did crossed LOC at 5-6 locations without being tracked, stopped or fired at? India has no answer.

*Assuming Indians crossed LOC using helicopters;*
A slightest violation of air-space strikes response from Pakistan, and Pakistan is currently at high-alert state with active preparedness. How India did came in and went out without alerting PAF? India has no answer.


*How did Indian soldiers got back?*
How India did recovered its soldiers back? Did India air-lift them or they walked back to India on foot crossing LOC? Entire LOC is permanently blocked using multi-layered barb-wire, land-mines and fences, is well lit and monitored by both India and Pakistan. How Indian soldiers from multiple locations walked back and not got seen or fired at by any of Pakistani check-posts? How did they managed to cross fenced, mined and impermeable boundary without being seen, caught or injured? India has no answer.

*If Indian soldiers were recovered using helicopters:*
That means 5-6 Indian helicopters must have landed inside Pakistani territory at 5-6 different locations and their helicopters were neither heard, tracked by soldiers, guards, radars nor PAF responded? PAF response time is under 3 minute. How could 5-6 Indian helicopters violated world's most well-guarded boarded and yet they came-and-went-back without getting noticed. India cannot answer that.

*India attacked terrorist launch-pads - were terrorists empty handed then?*
India didn’t lose a single soldier to any bullet, nor did they get injured even when they “destroyed” 5-6 terrorist launch-pads. Was there 1 terrorist per launch-pad who was also un-armed and had no Pakistani Military companion? India claims Pakistani Army back terrorists, does that mean Pakistani army was not backing terrorists and terrorist too were unarmed who allowed Indians to conduct operation, kill them as well as destroy their launch-pads and no response was seen from Pakistani Army either? Indians have no answer.
No stupidity expected from any Indian member and I would request @mods to watch this thread closely. These are legitimate questions and by answering them, without showing any evidence, India might be able to get some credibility of its claims. Let the informed members come in and give answers to these questions and lets see if Indian claims make any sense.


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## NKVD

Bratva said:


> I mean, Do you even think for a minute how all of this sounds so absurd ? Considering both PAF and PA are on high alert. Cross border Low altitude movements were and are put on high Alert due to High mark exercises as well as the possibility of this situation ?
> 
> And Laughable claims are being made Indians did this and that without any scratch as if Phantom movie is being replayed all over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @graphican post
> 
> Debunking Indian Claims of “Surgical Strike” in Pakistan.
> 
> Let any Indian general or representative come forward and answer these questions.
> 
> 
> *Where did India conducted this surgical strike?*
> India says it had credible evidence of terrorists who were to cross LOC. Why not show those locations to the world as well and prove they actually existed - which Indian needs desperately to prove its point that Pakistan is sponsoring terrorism in India. Why is India not proving Pakistan a terrorist sponsoring state using evidence of location which it destroyed? India has no answer.
> 
> *India claims it destroyed "terrorist launch-pads" – How do they look like?*
> Were they buildings, bunkers, rooms, hide-outs or runway strips? India has no answer.
> 
> *India claims it destroyed 5-6 “Terrorist” launch pads.*
> When India was so sure that it conducted operation across Pakistan, why is there a confusion between number 5 and 6? – Why is it itself confused?
> 
> 
> *Were all launch-pads standing together or distant from each other?*
> 5-6 locations means they have to be distant from each other and India conducted at least 5-6 operations to neutralise them. How India did crossed LOC at 5-6 locations without being tracked, stopped or fired at? India has no answer.
> 
> *Assuming Indians crossed LOC using helicopters;*
> A slightest violation of air-space strikes response from Pakistan, and Pakistan is currently at high-alert state with active preparedness. How India did came in and went out without alerting PAF? India has no answer.
> 
> 
> *How did Indian soldiers got back?*
> How India did recovered its soldiers back? Did India air-lift them or they walked back to India on foot crossing LOC? Entire LOC is permanently blocked using multi-layered barb-wire, land-mines and fences, is well lit and monitored by both India and Pakistan. How Indian soldiers from multiple locations walked back and not got seen or fired at by any of Pakistani check-posts? How did they managed to cross fenced, mined and impermeable boundary without being seen, caught or injured? India has no answer.
> 
> *If Indian soldiers were recovered using helicopters:*
> That means 5-6 Indian helicopters must have landed inside Pakistani territory at 5-6 different locations and their helicopters were neither heard, tracked by soldiers, guards, radars nor PAF responded? PAF response time is under 3 minute. How could 5-6 Indian helicopters violated world's most well-guarded boarded and yet they came-and-went-back without getting noticed. India cannot answer that.
> 
> *India attacked terrorist launch-pads - were terrorists empty handed then?*
> India didn’t lose a single soldier to any bullet, nor did they get injured even when they “destroyed” 5-6 terrorist launch-pads. Was there 1 terrorist per launch-pad who was also un-armed and had no Pakistani Military companion? India claims Pakistani Army back terrorists, does that mean Pakistani army was not backing terrorists and terrorist too were unarmed who allowed Indians to conduct operation, kill them as well as destroy their launch-pads and no response was seen from Pakistani Army either? Indians have no answer.
> No stupidity expected from any Indian member and I would request @mods to watch this thread closely. These are legitimate questions and by answering them, without showing any evidence, India might be able to get some credibility of its claims. Let the informed members come in and give answers to these questions and lets see if Indian claims make any sense.


If Thread Is Already Made on this Why are Invading this thread Why you guy getting desperate ??


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## Bratva

NKVD said:


> If Thread Is Already Made on this Why are Invading this thread Why you guy getting desperate ??



Seeing your desperate replies on that thread without answering one question asked by OP just shows height of your desperation and the need to engage in mental masturbation to proof India pulled a super man act without a single casualty. I mean they attacked launching pads where armed were going to launch into India. How come there never was a fire fight ?


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## NKVD

Bratva said:


> Seeing your desperate replies on that thread without answering one question asked by OP just shows height of your desperation and the need to engage in mental masturbation to proof India pulled a super man act without a single casualty. I mean they attacked launching pads where armed were going to launch into India. How come there never was a fire fight ?


Are your Soldiers Killed or not Yes ISPR Accepted So Your just telling us your media Narrative and on Military Lines 

figures are always be debatable going By Pakistani army Reputation Since they not even officially Accepted Kargil Infiltration Till Now

so be happy with your narrative

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## Unknowncommando

Please for gods sake dont initiate new argument here. It has always ended up with ruined thread and nothing else.Rather post some pictures or videos. That would be better.

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## Bratva

NKVD said:


> Are your Soldiers Killed or not Yes ISPR Accepted So Your just telling us your media Narrative and on Military Lines
> 
> figures are always be debatable going By Pakistani army Reputation Since they not even officially Accepted Kargil Infiltration Till Now
> 
> so be happy with your narrative



And the mental masturbation continues. 90 percent of idiots in India are coming at full force now with their illogical comparisons and face saving propaganda to defend DGMO lies .

Did soldiers at LOC always gets killed due to surgical strikes Genius ?

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## noksss

*The *surgical strikes in Azad Kashmir* that were carried out by India last night were 
that were carried out by India last night were recorded on cameras; the government will decide whether and when to release the footage, including some obtained through drones, said top sources.*

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/surg...-say-sources-1468004?pfrom=home-lateststories


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...from-Operations-Room/articleshow/54586193.cms

Looks like a well thought out plan

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## Jamwal's

noksss said:


> What is


Random Para drops different from Special Heli Borne Op either by Slithering or low level drop which is more precise.


You must have heard about Soaring Gideons. They are not Para dropping.








Also, *IAF* armed Mi 17 which is also permanently attach to Para SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> What is
> 
> 
> But you were claiming some days before that PA was well prepared and we cant do such an Ops without taking casualties on our side . Now that we have done it without any causalities what your view on this ? Something worked out in our favor ? or you consider this as an textbook Ops to be recorded for future study


Look buddy PAK has a professional Army and i have respect for their SSG.I expected better from them specially from the recent threats that they got.

I will give credit to those who planned it and executed it including the RAW.This type of an attack could go wrong.

I would still stick to what i said.It could lead to casualties on our side!

9 times out of 10 such operations may result in casualties or deaths.



Bratva said:


> And the mental masturbation continues. 90 percent of idiots in India are coming at full force now with their illogical comparisons and face saving propaganda to defend DGMO lies .
> 
> Did soldiers at LOC always gets killed due to surgical strikes Genius ?


Such tall claims after accepting that 2 PAK Army soldiers are KIA?

Please be careful IA might release the video of this attack and you might be embarrassed.

Pakistan Army ran away saying they are not involved in Kargil and we all know the truth.

I am sorry Mr. but even if i become neutral your Army is still not credible.

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> We don't glorify beheadings unlike Mushy.
> 
> *On topic:*
> The modus operandi looks similar to the one carried-out by 21 Para(SF), only the strength was higher. The men has to be from 9 and 4 Para, considering their battalion hq in J&K itself.


4 Para are permently deployed to Kashmir but other detachments from the rest of the SF btns regularly rotate through the valley, could've been operators from other btns involved also.

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## NKVD

India Mourning for their 8 Solider killed 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781511887221469184

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## Abingdonboy

NKVD said:


> India Mourning for their 8 Solider killed
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781511887221469184


District reserve group are Chhattisgarh police?


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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> 4 Para are permently deployed to Kashmir but other detachments from the rest of the SF btns regularly rotate through the valley, could've been operators from other btns involved also.


Both 9 and 4 Para are Udhampur based. Therefore if 150 strength is considered then it might be majorly from these two units.

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## NKVD

Abingdonboy said:


> District reserve group are Chhattisgarh police?


reserve group jawans with police Look at camo I don't Know ANI reported it


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

NKVD said:


> India Mourning for their 8 Solider killed
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781511887221469184


What a sight it would be now in Para SF base.

Only great men get to fight wars and even greater get to be a SF soldier and cross the border and avenge deaths.

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## Jamwal's

Bakshi sahab nahin dikhai de rahey. Maybe drunk to sleep in officer's mess celebration lol

Shouting his lungs out for last few years to teach a lesson like when he was in service.

Great soldier.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

If you all analyze the DGMO's statement, the surgical strikes were carried out across L.O.C and not inside Pakistan. Carefully weighted words.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> Bakshi sahab nahin dikhai de rahey. Maybe drunk to sleep in officer's mess celebration lol
> 
> Shouting his lungs out for last few years to teach a lesson like when he was in service.
> 
> Great soldier.



Din me bhashan de kar gaye hein..ab rum pi rhe honge gymkhana mein 

What a passionate man even at that age!!

I hate people who become diplomatic with age and term it maturity!!

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## noksss

There are many proxies created after the Afghan war ended proxies interms of Media outlet, Intellectual , Journalist , politicians who might say during such incident that we are with the country and army but don't fall into their trap their only aim is to break the resolve of the country . Incident in JNU ,Jadhavpur and other universities are nothing but proxies . Today we see a shameless elected CM(Arvind Kejriwal) who tweeted an article saying instead of Pakistan India gets isolated Wasn't he a proxy ?

--Former RAW officer RSN Singh in Times Now

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## Jamwal's

All started in 1989 when Kashmir Jihad was launched by terrorist then call Mujahideens who fought USSR and claim when we could defeat soviets why can't Indians


But Indians ended their entire generations and dumped those Afghans, Chechen, Uzbeks in unmarked graves. Rest of the cowards ran away to save their life. Most famously that coward Mast Gul "major"

Then came native kashmisirs who suffer the same fate.

And presently Punjabis. Enka bhi wahi haal hona. Like Gen Bakshi said "Enki nasleen yahin dafan hongi Hindustan mn"


Afterwards we will sort our local softcore terrorist, Apptards, libtards, commietards, Burkabutt etc not by troops by little media foot soldiers like Arnab and other nationalists lol



So all in all we gained since 1947 not lost.

1971 Turtok

1971 Kargil Heights

1984 and 1987 - Siachen

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## mkb95

Mock drill conducted by NSG commandos at VIT University , Chennai

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## cerilchan

Pak army always lie ,


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## Levina

noksss said:


> There are many proxies created after the Afghan war ended proxies interms of Media outlet, Intellectual , Journalist , politicians who might say during such incident that we are with the country and army but don't fall into their trap their only aim is to break the resolve of the country . Incident in JNU ,Jadhavpur and other universities are nothing but proxies . Today we see a shameless elected CM(Arvind Kejriwal) who tweeted an article saying instead of Pakistan India gets isolated Wasn't he a proxy ?
> 
> --Former RAW officer RSN Singh in Times Now


He's an @&&.
But Delhi deserves him.

Btw I was taken aback by Dawn's claim that an IA soldier was killed. After repeated tweets, they changed their statement. :/


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Levina said:


> He's an @&&.
> But Delhi deserves him.
> 
> Btw I was taken aback by Dawn's claim that an IA soldier was killed. After repeated tweets, they changed their statement. :/



They even claimed to have captured an Indian soldier.Then came this..

http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/09/pakistan-army-captures-indian-soldier/

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## jha

4 Paras and 9 Paras... heartly gratitude.


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## GurudevSingh

Correct me if i am wrong here, paratroopers took part in the recent operations against Pakistan?

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## ziaulislam

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> They even claimed to have captured an Indian soldier.Then came this..
> 
> http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/09/pakistan-army-captures-indian-soldier/


offical pak army statement refused it, it was reuters sourcing indian source


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## RPK



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## mkb95

longer video with some extra stuff.

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## Unknowncommando

STAR 21 and two GTAR 21

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Guys,My sources tell me that no Indian SF was injured or killed in engagements.However 2 operators have minor injuries because of mines.Everyone has returned to base safe and sound.

Satellite pictures show over 50 terrorists killed.

The Indian Govt MAY leak satellite pictures/UAV footage if the Pakistan Propaganda continues..and it wont be pictures from 2010/05.

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## gslv mk3

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The Indian Govt MAY leak satellite pictures/UAV footage if the Pakistan Propaganda continues.



I hope they would


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## Indrajit

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The Indian Govt MAY leak satellite pictures/UAV footage if the Pakistan Propaganda continues..and it wont be pictures from 2010/05.





gslv mk3 said:


> I hope they would



They shouldn't, there is no need to prove anything to anyone , certainly not to the Pakistanis. Nor are the Pakistanis going to be convinced by any such thing, they will likely dismiss it as a made up video etc. The Pakistani reaction is proof enough, condemning & having hurried meetings when supposedly nothing has happened. The best thing for us to do is to do nothing. Most Pakistanis, either here or in the general populace are aware that their military doesn't always tell them everything, their track record exists. Let them be in this dilemma, we gain nothing from showing "proof".

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## CorporateAffairs

Entire operation has been shot using Drones and body cameras on the special forces. 
They will be released at an appropriate time.

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## cerberus

CorporateAffairs said:


> Entire operation has been shot using Drones and body cameras on the special forces.
> They will be released at an appropriate time.



Details and images of both siachin and kargil released later

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## noksss

The commandos who went across the Line of Control for surgical strikes fanned across 250 km of mountainous and forested territory to target seven terrorist "launch pads" or staging areas. *They went up to three kilometres deep in Azad Kashmir after trekking for nearly 10 hours and the strikes they launched were simultaneous.*The operation, carried out by para commandos who are trained for strikes on enemy territory, was cleared at about noon on Wednesday. After the Uri army camp was attacked by Pakistani terrorists on September 18, the government had asked military commanders to present options for the operation that took place on Wednesday night. Sources said the fact that it was a dark, nearly moonless night was a crucial factor.

Soon after the operation was cleared, helicopters flew out in pairs from various bases. Sortie after sortie in sectors like Uri were used to lure Pakistan into concentrating on those areas. The army also used heavy-calibre weapons in Uri to draw Pakistan's attention there - allowing the commandos to move through other areas to approach the targets, which had been placed under surveillance for a week.

Teams slipped across the Line of Control in the Poonch district and the Nowgam sector in Northern Kashmir. Commandos reached their targets at about 1:45 am.

*In a simultaneous attack, they destroyed five terror launch pads and two facilities of the Pakistani army co-located with the launch pads.Simultaneously, the military was put on alert for places like the air forces bases in Jammu and Pathankot, where Pakistani terrorists carried out a deadly attack in January.*

*Though sources have refused to comment on how many terrorists were killed, they say that a terror launch pad usually has at least 10 terrorists waiting to infiltrate along with an equal number of guides and other assistants.*

*The weapons used by the para-commandos included the Swedish-designed Carl Gustav rocket launcher, a shoulder-fired rifle operated by a team of two soldiers each and powerful enough to take out tanks and hardened shelters.*

The crucial "element of surprise" was complete, sources said, adding that Pakistan responded to the strike much after soldiers were back in in their bases.

*The commandos had been instructed to "leave neither bodies nor buddies behind," said sources. They returned "before sunrise" and "*with not one scratch*", though a soldier had minor injuries after he stepped on a mine on the Indian side of the Line of Control.*

An Indian solider, Chandu Babulal Chohan, now in Pakistani custody, was not part of the strikes and inadvertently crossed the border, the army said. Home Minister Rajnath Singh said "all attempts are being made" to ensure his release.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/for-...distract-pak-1468514?pfrom=home-lateststories

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## cerilchan

10 century lots foreign invaders try invade but only justice only prevale


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## noksss

The Army Major is comparing this operation with the Israeli SF's Entebbe operation and said this would become a case study for further operation around the world . Is this a bit of a tall claim ?





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1619665711392475





@Levina @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## Jamwal's

Not the 1st time. Happened before and will happen again. Only difference is that govt acknowledge this time.

News from* 2013


Indian troops stage cross-border raid











*
ISLAMABAD - A Pakistani soldier was martyred and another injured in a gunfight erupting *after Indian troops crossed into Pakistani territory and attacked a checkpost in Bagh area of Azad Kashmir* on Sunday.But Indian military denied its soldiers had attacked Pakistani position, and instead accused Pakistani troops of violating the Line of Control (LoC), an internationally recognised line separating Indian and Pakistani parts of Kashmir patrolled by troops from both countries.The checkpost skirmish was followed by heavy exchange of fire across the volatile border heightening tensions between the nuclear neighbours after a consider period of calm and rapprochement.A spokesman of Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) said the Indian soldiers violated the LoC early in the day by crossing into the Haji Pir sector, just about 80 kilometres north of capital Islamabad. They “physically raided” Sawan Patra checkpost and critically injured two Pakistani soldiers, one of whom - Naik Muhammad Aslam - succumbed to his wounds later, he added.

Published in The Nation newspaper on 07-Jan-2013


http://nation.com.pk/national/07-Jan-2013/indian-troops-stage-cross-border-raid

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## R!CK

Source: http://nation.com.pk/E-Paper/lahore/2013-01-07/page-1


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## Counterpunch

noksss said:


> The commandos who went across the Line of Control for surgical strikes fanned across 250 km of mountainous and forested territory to target seven terrorist "launch pads" or staging areas. *They went up to three kilometres deep in Azad Kashmir after trekking for nearly 10 hours and the strikes they launched were simultaneous.*The operation, carried out by para commandos who are trained for strikes on enemy territory, was cleared at about noon on Wednesday. After the Uri army camp was attacked by Pakistani terrorists on September 18, the government had asked military commanders to present options for the operation that took place on Wednesday night. Sources said the fact that it was a dark, nearly moonless night was a crucial factor.
> 
> Soon after the operation was cleared, helicopters flew out in pairs from various bases. Sortie after sortie in sectors like Uri were used to lure Pakistan into concentrating on those areas. The army also used heavy-calibre weapons in Uri to draw Pakistan's attention there - allowing the commandos to move through other areas to approach the targets, which had been placed under surveillance for a week.
> 
> Teams slipped across the Line of Control in the Poonch district and the Nowgam sector in Northern Kashmir. Commandos reached their targets at about 1:45 am.
> 
> *In a simultaneous attack, they destroyed five terror launch pads and two facilities of the Pakistani army co-located with the launch pads.Simultaneously, the military was put on alert for places like the air forces bases in Jammu and Pathankot, where Pakistani terrorists carried out a deadly attack in January.*
> 
> *Though sources have refused to comment on how many terrorists were killed, they say that a terror launch pad usually has at least 10 terrorists waiting to infiltrate along with an equal number of guides and other assistants.*
> 
> *The weapons used by the para-commandos included the Swedish-designed Carl Gustav rocket launcher, a shoulder-fired rifle operated by a team of two soldiers each and powerful enough to take out tanks and hardened shelters.*
> 
> The crucial "element of surprise" was complete, sources said, adding that Pakistan responded to the strike much after soldiers were back in in their bases.
> 
> *The commandos had been instructed to "leave neither bodies nor buddies behind," said sources. They returned "before sunrise" and "*with not one scratch*", though a soldier had minor injuries after he stepped on a mine on the Indian side of the Line of Control.*
> 
> An Indian solider, Chandu Babulal Chohan, now in Pakistani custody, was not part of the strikes and inadvertently crossed the border, the army said. Home Minister Rajnath Singh said "all attempts are being made" to ensure his release.
> http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/for-...distract-pak-1468514?pfrom=home-lateststories


No matter how hard I try to believe, every other report is so full of confusions

For instance just the below few:
*
The crucial "element of surprise" was complete, sources said, adding that Pakistan responded to the strike much after soldiers were back in in their bases
>> *We can assume they used guns with silencers, but I hope the Carl-Gustav Rocket launchers packed a bang loud enough to be heard/echoed multiple KMs around the impact site. And yet the Pakistani Army couldn't ascertain the attack site despite having a time window of 1-2 hours at least

*.....though a soldier had minor injuries after he stepped on a mine on the Indian side of the Line of Control.
>>* stepping on a mine gets you minor injuries? And they eluded mines on Pakistani sides only to step on one of their own. Remember it was a static mine not a floating one.

I fear coming days will make the story more murkier rather than any way clearer as is being hoped here in Pakistan


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## noksss

Counterpunch said:


> No matter how hard I try to believe, every other report is so full of confusions
> 
> For instance just the below few:
> *
> The crucial "element of surprise" was complete, sources said, adding that Pakistan responded to the strike much after soldiers were back in in their bases
> >> *We can assume they used guns with silencers, but I hope the Carl-Gustav Rocket launchers packed a bang loud enough to be heard/echoed multiple KMs around the impact site. And yet the Pakistani Army couldn't ascertain the attack site despite having a time window of 1-2 hours at least
> 
> *.....though a soldier had minor injuries after he stepped on a mine on the Indian side of the Line of Control.
> >>* stepping on a mine gets you minor injuries? And they eluded mines on Pakistani sides only to step on one of their own. Remember it was a static mine not a floating one.
> 
> I fear coming days will make the story more murkier rather than any way clearer as is being hoped here in Pakistan



Dude trust your army they denied any surgical strikes and no one in this world can penetrate the defence created by PA and PAF even the Americans did a joint operation with you guys to kill Osama . So just trust what PA tells you and let Indians have a debate on this fake surgical strike

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## Counterpunch

noksss said:


> Dude trust your army they denied any surgical strikes and no one in this world can penetrate the defence created by PA and PAF even the Americans did a joint operation with you guys to kill Osama . So just trust what PA tells you and let Indians have a debate on this fake surgical strike


No I wouldn't go into proving any force as super human, but I am just referring to what is obviously confusing and challenges even the common sense. I wouldn't draw comparisons of other occasions as conflicts tend to jump off the paper plans very quickly and draw their own course very uniquely in every conflict


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## R!CK

Just in: HAL formally asked maintenance crew on all aircraft types to prepare for possible emergency situation and be prepared for travelling to FOB to support IAF operations if tensions escalate. 

P.S: Hope tensions don't escalate. Appreciate the advance preparations of the armed forces. Finding it funny if people think armed forces are evacuating people and putting staff on high alert over just cross border shelling. Hope peace prevails again, may almighty help everyone.

Good Day!

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## Levina

Indrajit said:


> They shouldn't, there is no need to prove anything to anyone , certainly not to the Pakistanis. Nor are the Pakistanis going to be convinced by any such thing, they will likely dismiss it as a made up video etc. The Pakistani reaction is proof enough, condemning & having hurried meetings when supposedly nothing has happened. The best thing for us to do is to do nothing. Most Pakistanis, either here or in the general populace are aware that their military doesn't always tell them everything, their track record exists. Let them be in this dilemma, we gain nothing from showing "proof".




Nope.
I don't agree.
Keeping quiet has not earned us anything, other than giving an opportunity to the enemy to mislead its people. It's high time such details came out in the open so that their people know what lies they have been fed with all these years. This is psyops.



R!CK said:


> Just in: HAL formally asked maintenance crew on all aircraft types to prepare for possible emergency situation and be prepared for travelling to FOB to support IAF operations if tensions escalate.
> 
> P.S: Hope tensions don't escalate. Appreciate the advance preparations of the armed forces. Finding it funny if people think armed forces are evacuating people and putting staff on high alert over just cross border shelling. Hope peace prevails again, may almighty help everyone.
> 
> Good Day!


fingers crossed! 
No war.



noksss said:


> The Army Major is comparing this operation with the Israeli SF's Entebbe operation and said this would become a case study for further operation around the world . Is this a bit of a tall claim ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1619665711392475
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Levina @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


He did say he's ecstatic. 
So let's leave it at that.

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## cerberus

Levina said:


> It's high time such details came out in the open so that their people know what lies they have been fed with all these years. This is psyops.


Do you think they will accept Naah They Not even Accepted Kargil yet Lt alone this strikes Meanwhile 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781902307688603648

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## Abingdonboy

RPK said:


>


1) good to see the latest gear trickling down to the hub teams 
2) constant drills around the country are essential for each and every NSG team. Be sure someone is planning to take revenge for the loss of their "strategic assets" and an attack on a major Indian city is long overdue.

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## Levina

cerberus said:


> Do you think they will accept Naah They Not even Accepted Kargil yet Lt alone this strikes Meanwhile
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781902307688603648


Their denial is not an issue as long as we have proof... and this time we do.

Btw I overheard their TPS77 radars were hacked by none other than their very old and dear friend.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Their denial is not an issue as long as we have proof... and this time we do.
> 
> Btw I overheard their TPS77 radars were hacked by none other than their very old and dear friend.



Damn you people are so gullible ... Do you think we have only TPS77s on LOC? Do you think Uncle Sam gives a fuk about you?

You have proof ?

We released footages of bombarding your posts ... All you have is a confused statement to go by ? What's the so called proof is your so called strikes ?

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## pakdefender

Vikas Dangi said:


> Pakistanis are unable to accept that india have done a surgical strike in pakistan occupied kashmir



hindutani bakray are not making any sense , just behaving like howler monkeys


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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Damn you people are so gullible ... Do you think we have only TPS77s on LOC? Do you think Uncle Sam gives a fuk about you?
> 
> You have proof ?
> 
> We released footages of bombarding your posts ... All you have is a confused statement to go by ? What's the so called proof is your so called strikes ?


Let me give you one proof >>>

Statement 1:
By Pakistani politicians

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/indian...strikes-along-loc-3055906/lite/?client=safari


Statement 2: 
By Pak army

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.al...al-strikes-160929165646369.html?client=safari


And its contradictory.

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## pakdefender

Levina said:


> Let me give you one proof >>>
> 
> Statement 1:
> By Pakistani politicians
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/indian...strikes-along-loc-3055906/lite/?client=safari
> 
> 
> Statement 2:
> By Pak army
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.al...al-strikes-160929165646369.html?client=safari
> 
> 
> And its contradictory.



So who were the indians who conducted this imaginary surgical strike ? do they have names , what units ? is any indian bhangee getting a military award for this karnama ?


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## Levina

pakdefender said:


> So who were the indians who conducted this imaginary surgical strike ? do they have names , what units ? is any indian bhangee getting a military award for this karnama ?


 


Curiousity killed the cat.

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## pakdefender

Levina said:


> Curiousity killed the cat.



I think its the guy on the left who will get Gol Chakkar award

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## Levina

pakdefender said:


> I think its the guy on the left who will get Sur mein Chakkar award :lol


It takes a lot of courage to even attempt what's shown in the DR display. So don't mock them. 

Let's not derail this thread.

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## Grevion

Levina said:


> Let me give you one proof >>>
> 
> Statement 1:
> By Pakistani politicians
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/indian...strikes-along-loc-3055906/lite/?client=safari
> 
> 
> Statement 2:
> By Pak army
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.al...al-strikes-160929165646369.html?client=safari
> 
> 
> And its contradictory.


We don't need to prove them anything. Truth will come out eventually few years later. We just have to wait for some of their retired generals living in UK/US to write a book about it.

OT- Guys there are some pictures circulating in the social media in India(whatsapp and others) about the Indian strikes and some of them are really horrifying. Are they any real??

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Let me give you one proof >>>
> 
> Statement 1:
> By Pakistani politicians
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/indian...strikes-along-loc-3055906/lite/?client=safari
> 
> 
> Statement 2:
> By Pak army
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.al...al-strikes-160929165646369.html?client=safari
> 
> 
> And its contradictory.



To stupid to understand that Nawaz meant the cross border firing/attack.


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## Unknowncommando

AN 32 s And Paratrooper

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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> To stupid to understand that Nawaz meant the cross border firing/attack.


Yeah yeah. I agree. 


litefire said:


> Guys there are some pictures circulating in the social media in India(whatsapp and others) about the Indian strikes and some of them are really horrifying. Are they any real??


Yeah saw some on an fb. But the ones that I saw looked as if those were clicked in broad daylight which can not be the case.
Did you see something similar?



**********

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781506308017123328

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Yeah yeah. I agree.
> 
> Yeah saw some on an fb. But the ones that I saw looked as if those were clicked in broad daylight which can not be the case.
> Did you see something similar?
> 
> 
> 
> **********
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781506308017123328



Twisting statements don't mean shyt..

Hear are Pak papers reporting it;

https://timesofislamabad.com/pm-nawaz-sharif-reacts-unprovoked-indian-firing-loc/2016/09/29/


Now show us the so called proof ? We showed you footage of your posts hit by Pak shelling.

Funny how pathetic you people and your media is that it's not even asking simple questions or details or questioning the fake narrative.. Man up and ask your army to come clean .. Provide details or release the so called proof.

What we can confirm is a confrontation on the LOC between 8th NLI Patrolling party hand your troops ... And than arty opening up.. Yeah I confirmed it with officers on ground handling the situation... 
Also why is your army hiding the casualties? Or the fact that's it's posts were destroyed? And you people are shameless cheering without asking questions to your own army.. Pathetic.

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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And you people are shameless cheering without asking questions to your own army.. Pathetic


Nobody is cheering anything. We are just happy that this year Diwali will be celebrated without fear. 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> show us the so called proof ?


Patience!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Nobody is cheering anything. We are just happy that this year Diwali will be celebrated without fear.



Than why evacuate the bordering areas? So much for being fearless?


> Patience!


Remember the drone episode ? Indian UAV shot by PA troops on LOC? 

Indian army claimed it didn't belong to them and how Pak shot their own UAV?

Indian media pushing the same agenda showing pics of Panjab police with DJI drones and claiming Pak army shot Panjab police UAV on loc bordering AJK ?


Later ISPR released pics and footage retrieved from he drone showing your soldiers flying it from the Indian post... Pics of 13 mahar regiment post and Indian soldiers with it ?

Still didn't accept it...

This time they released footage of Pak army destroying Indian posts ... 

And on the other side we have unclear statements,no cross border "strike" acknowledgement,no details... and alot of chest thumping..


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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Than why evacuate the bordering areas? So much for being fearless?


Because prevention is better than cure.
Since the incident happened we expect Pakistan to retaliate. If that happens, we don't want innocents to be caught in the mele.
But am glad things are being played down. It might not esacalate.
Anyways it's better to be alert.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Remember the drone episode ?


Remember kargil?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Because prevention is better than cure.
> Since the incident happened we expect Pakistan to retaliate. If that happens we don't want innocents to be caught in the mele.
> But am glad things are being played down. It might not esacalate.
> Anyways it's better to be alert.


As I said where is the proof of the total chutiyapa claimed by you without any details?




> Remember kargil?


I do.. We did own it up by merging a paramilitary into regular army and awarding medals etc..

Everybody knew it... Nobody made false claims in the air.


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## MadDog

Vikas Dangi said:


> Pakistanis are unable to accept that india have done a surgical strike in pakistan occupied kashmir



Buddy, first India claimed it to be a surgical strike, when PAF said no Indian aircraft even came close to Pak airspace, they claimed it was a heliborne operation , when questions were raised as to how unarmed Mi-17's went in and out in such a heavily militarized area, now they are saying helicopters weren't involved, the soldiers crossed the LOC on ground. Is it even plausible, that indians go in , miraculously avoid fire from Pakistani minefields and heavily fortified bunkers , stay inside for 6-7 hours and come back without a scratch. We aren't talking about mythology here, its real life, there might be appetite for such fantasies in India but this will become a big joke in strategic circles of the world.


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## Grevion

Levina said:


> Yeah saw some on an fb. But the ones that I saw looked as if those were clicked in broad daylight which can not be the case.
> Did you see something similar?


Yep. Indian Army brought few dead bodies of the terrorist with them after the strike and also captured few of them alive. So probably they leaked some pictures online.

Although there were few pictures of mass dead bodies of the terrorist which i am not sure about.

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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> As I said where is the proof of the total chutiyapa claimed by you without any details?


Checked the word in Hindi dictionary- it means stupidity.
Well, you speak as if IA reports to me and sends me videos to watch before it is released to the public. Lol
Now what did I claim that you think is stupidity?
My claim is
1. Pakistani politicians and Pak army have made contradictory statements about the attack Which I have already proven.
2. America's involvement- Well the speed with which they came into the picture proves my point.

So that's it!
If it's chutiyapa then so be it.

Ciao



litefire said:


> Yep. Indian Army brought few dead bodies of the terrorist with them after the strike and also captured few of them alive. So probably they leaked some pictures online.
> 
> Although there were few pictures of mass dead bodies of the terrorist which i am not sure about.


I heard they were instructed "leave no bodies and buddies behind".
But didn't expect this. Gosh!

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## GuardianRED

Levina said:


> Checked the word in Hindi dictionary- it means stupidity.
> Well, you speak as if IA reports to me and sends me videos to watch before it is released to the public. Lol
> Now what did I claim that you think is stupidity?
> My claim is
> 1. Pakistani politicians and Pak army have made contradictory statements about the attack Which I have already proven.
> 2. America's involvement- Well the speed with which they came into the picture proves my point.
> 
> So that's it!
> If it's chutiyapa then so be it.
> 
> Ciao
> 
> 
> I heard they were instructed "leave no bodies and buddies behind".
> But didn't expect this. Gosh!


We can always ask ISPR to go to these locations, they can take a detailed analysis and release them to the world to prove these strikes, are as they saying, is propaganda!..... OH Wait they won't  (maybe after they cleaned up)

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Checked the word in Hindi dictionary- it means stupidity.
> Well, you speak as if IA reports to me and sends me videos to watch before it is released to the public. Lol




Did I ask you? Although it's amusing how you are peddling that shyt.


> Now what did I claim that you think is stupidity?
> My claim is
> 1. Pakistani politicians and Pak army have made contradictory statements about the attack Which I have already proven.



You proved what with reports from your own yellow media ? That has no shame,ethics or moral courage to even question the bunny claims?



> 2. America's involvement- Well the speed with which they came into the picture proves my point.



America has called for peace several times before aswell.. Doesn't mean shyt.




> I heard they were instructed "leave no bodies and buddies behind".
> But didn't expect this. Gosh!


Nobody did they than used dump trunks and stole coffins to mint money and even faked encounters to get medals...

Ironically those idiots making false claims asusual .. Pissed themselves by leaking video of body exchange ceremony... Much like that idiot coast guard admiral .. The terror boat chutiyapa and how "blow that Pakistan up" which late bite him in the Arse.


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## Indika

Levina said:


> Btw I overheard their TPS77 radars were hacked by none other than their very old and dear friend.


hmm ... even we are buying equipment from them, it wont take much time for them do the same trick on us.

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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Did I ask you? Although it's amusing how you are peddling that shyt.
> 
> 
> You proved what with reports from your own yellow media ? That has no shame,ethics or moral courage to even question the bunny claims?
> 
> 
> 
> America has called for peace several times before aswell.. Doesn't mean shyt.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody did they than used dump trunks and stole coffins to mint money and even faked encounters to get medals...
> 
> Ironically those idiots making false claims asusual .. Pissed themselves by leaking video of body exchange ceremony... Much like that idiot coast guard admiral .. The terror boat chutiyapa and how "blow that Pakistan up" which late bite him in the Arse.


Chill!
Our men killed a few pigs who were planning to infiltrate, none of this was meant to be against your army.

I don't want to be discussing things with someone who is nothing but an army brat like me. Let some real army men come and talk. 

Now don't derail this thread further.



Indika said:


> hmm ... even we are buying equipment from them, it wont take much time for them do the same trick on us.


America is nobody's fren.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Chill!
> Our men killed a few pigs who were planning to infiltrate, none of this was meant to be against your army.
> 
> I don't want to be discussing things with someone who is nothing but an army brat like me. Let some real army men come and talk.
> 
> Now don't derail this thread further.
> 
> 
> America is nobody's fren.



It was me who broke the news down to which PA unit that encountered Indian troops.. Unlike you I'm not a mid agged married aunty living in UAE whose father perhaps retired in the 80s.

Nor do i believe in shyt peddled for the masses.. Or everything some turd on Indian media says..


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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Unlike you I'm not a mid agged married aunty living in UAE whose father perhaps retired in the 80s.


Ouch!
That hurts. 


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It was me who broke the news down to which PA unit that encountered Indian troops


Tsk tsk
You made it public? 
Let our armies deal with it. If India has really not made any attack on Pakistani soil then I guess Pakistani government made a big blunder by lodging a complaint against India in UNSC. 
Never mind!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Ouch!
> That hurts.
> 
> Tsk tsk
> You made it public?
> Let our armies deal with it. If India has really not made any attack on Pakistani soil then I guess Pakistani government made a big blunder by lodging a complaint against India in UNSC.
> Never mind!



Ask Joe ..

As usual twisting the facts ... Complaint lodged over unprovoked firing on LOC ... Perhaps you didn't hear Paks UN Ambassador Maliha Lodhi statement on the issue? Oh wait you heard and believe that shyt show run by indian media.


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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Ask Joe ..
> 
> As usual twisting the facts ... Complaint lodged over unprovoked firing on LOC ... Perhaps you didn't hear Paks UN Ambassador Maliha Lodhi statement on the issue? Oh wait you heard and believe that shyt show run by indian media.


Yes I heard Lodhi talked about Indian "provocation"...my point is proven beyond doubt. 
Glad you brought up this topic. 

Okay now Aunty gotta go. Lolz

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## Bratva

Levina said:


> Chill!
> Our men killed a few pigs who were planning to infiltrate, none of this was meant to be against your army.
> 
> I don't want to be discussing things with someone who is nothing but an army brat like me. Let some real army men come and talk.
> 
> Now don't derail this thread further.
> 
> 
> America is nobody's fren.



Emmm, Do you have any Idea when a person is launched from Launching Pad, he is always armed to teeth so that he can Fight indian soldiers across Border if they try to stop him. So If Indian did a strike against launching pad why there was no Fire fight b/w fully armed insurgents and PARA SF and how come PARA SF didnt suffer a single casualty ? 

Instead of going down to the rout of 90 percent idiots, lets talk on facts,logic and with sane mind


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## Levina

Bratva said:


> So If Indian did a strike against launching pad why there was no Fire fight b/w fully armed insurgents and PARA SF and how come PARA SF didnt suffer a single casualty ?


It was meant to be a surprise attack. Isn't it?


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## Bratva

Levina said:


> Yes I heard Lodhi talked about Indian "provocation"...my point is proven beyond doubt.
> Glad you brought up this topic.
> 
> Okay now Aunty gotta go. Lolz



Now Now, Dont become emotional and rant and twist all the way you want. Our Side raised issue India killed two of our soldiers and we protested on this. How this become a proof Pakistan admitting India did surgical strikes. Boggles my mind how far indians are willing to go in their stupiddity to justify everything.


Remember Kalbhushan Yadav episode ? This is called an evidence. Show us something like this and then talk about imaginary things becoming realistic



Levina said:


> It was meant to be a surprise attack. Isn't it?



Again, are you that simpleton that a launching pad if there is, so near to LoC would be so relaxed especially after Sept 18 Uri attack and heightened alertness of PA and PAF ?

We are talking about insurgents who knew lay of land as good as Pakistanis and Indians and they are not simpleton like Indian keyboard warriors.


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## Levina

Bratva said:


> Remember Kalbhushan Yadav episode ? This is called an evidence


An evidence which was not taken seriously by even your own friends.
Never mind the short term memory loss. 




Bratva said:


> Again, are you that simpleton that a launching pad if there is, so near to LoC would be so relaxed especially after Sept 18 Uri attack and heightened alertness of PA and PAF ?



Okay then...I will explain things in detail but will you ensure my safety on the forum and beyond it?

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## R!CK

Bratva said:


> Emmm, Do you have any Idea when a person is launched from Launching Pad, he is always armed to teeth so that he can Fight indian soldiers across Border if they try to stop him. So If Indian did a strike against launching pad why there was no Fire fight b/w fully armed insurgents and PARA SF and how come PARA SF didnt suffer a single casualty ?
> 
> Instead of going down to the rout of 90 percent idiots, lets talk on facts,logic and with sane mind



oh so u mean to say.....

1. You admit terrorists are launched from your territory?

2. or you have seen them being armed to teeth before they head out to India?

P.S: Don't care about what Indians or Pakistanis in this forum thinks about the issue. If its true, good enough and if its false, its about time something is done. I'm just surprised few people are still in denial about Kargil and OBL lol.

Good Day to all the haters!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Yes I heard Lodhi talked about Indian "provocation"...my point is proven beyond doubt.
> Glad you brought up this topic.
> 
> Okay now Aunty gotta go. Lolz








Another egg on your face. Ambassador's interview -- Al Jazeera


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## Bratva

Levina said:


> An evidence which was not taken seriously by even your own friends.
> Never mind the short term memory loss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay then...I will explain things in detail but will you ensure my safety on the forum and beyond it?



And who is talking India serious now on their Imaginary claims Might I ask ? or for that Matter when Turkey downed the Russian Fighter JET did India backed Russia against Turkey or who stood behind Russia at that time ? If it is your scale of judging seriousness of Party X not being taken serious by other 25 Alphabets , Than I might add your sense of logic and sane is in shard decline now a days. Because I asked Pakistan showed something physical not made imaginary claims like you guys are making. Try to understand what is someone saying instead of going on tangents liek Arnab gosawami


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## Indrajit

Levina said:


> It was meant to be a surprise attack. Isn't it?



How dare you? Don't you know these chaps are armed to the teeth.....so what if they are sleeping & are taken by surprise.....

Good luck convincing .......

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## Levina

Bratva said:


> And who is talking India serious now on their Imaginary claims Might I ask ?


The onus is on you to prove it is imaginary. Our men have done their part. 



Indrajit said:


> How dare you? Don't you know these chaps are armed to the teeth.....so what if they are sleeping & are taken by surprise.....
> 
> Good luck convincing .......


Let's not be harsh on them. 
They are being loyal to their country, I respect that.

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## R!CK

Levina said:


> Okay then...I will explain things in detail but will you ensure my safety on the forum and beyond it?



Ma'am if I were you, I'd enjoy a long weekend instead of wasting time educating the ignorant. You can only wake someone up who's sleeping, not someone who's pretending to sleep.

Good day and a great weekend to you!

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## Levina

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Another egg on your face. Ambassador's interview -- Al Jazeera



Right egg on face, because it shows this>>>


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Levina said:


> Right egg on face, because it shows this>>>
> 
> View attachment 339657



And whose stopping you from clicking on Vimeo? Invisible third hand ?






Click "Watch on Vimeo".


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## Bratva

Indrajit said:


> How dare you? Don't you know these chaps are armed to the teeth.....so what if they are sleeping & are taken by surprise.....
> 
> Good luck convincing .......



Another one of the 90 percent Iditot joins the claim who thinks Insurgents are launched over Indian side in a day light Did you even hear what you DGMO was saying that they detect a imminent threat to be launched from launching PAD meaning the threats were not sleeping at that time but rather were in full readiness to come across Kashmir? You and @Levina patting each other back. I pity you both for not using even 1 percent of your brain and musture some logical answers.

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## Levina

R!CK said:


> Ma'am if I were you, I'd enjoy a long weekend instead of wasting time educating the ignorant. You can only wake someone up who's sleeping, not someone who's pretending to sleep.
> 
> Good day and a great weekend to you!


Nah.
That cartoon has been messing with me since long. He had even promised me that he won't "touch" my posts.
So I thought he might have something substantial to post now that he's quoting me. Alas!

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## Bratva

Levina said:


> The onus is on you to prove it is imaginary. Our men have done their part.
> 
> 
> Let's not be harsh on them.
> They are being loyal to their country, I respect that.



See once again you are on tangent. lets try to use your Logic about which country supported Indian claims that Pakistan kidnapped Kalbhushan yadav or Kalbhushan Yadav is not a spy which Country came to Indian aid or support regarding Kalbhushan yadav. Because Likewise onus was on india to prove and you havent prove Kalbhushan yadav is not what he says he is.

Why india is hiding Kalbhushan yadav family why they are not letting Yadav family to come on screen and say with certinity that he is Mubarki Hussain and was just a trader


Deep down when you start using mind, Logics like this pops up. Hence I will continue to urge you to start thinking logically for once

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## Grevion

Levina said:


> Right egg on face, because it shows this>>>
> 
> View attachment 339657


Jiji, you need to charge your phone asap.

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## Indrajit

Levina said:


> Let's not be harsh on them.
> They are being loyal to their country, I respect that.



Loyalty to country I understand,
Alternate reality is where they live in, that too I understand.....

What I don't understand is why you _(& others)_ go on banging your heads against a rock.... You can explain as many times as you want, they either will not or cannot see it....

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## Bratva

R!CK said:


> Ma'am if I were you, I'd enjoy a long weekend instead of wasting time educating the ignorant. You can only wake someone up who's sleeping, not someone who's pretending to sleep.
> 
> Good day and a great weekend to you!



And another Idiot joins the party, Who doesnot even paid heed to his own DGMO imaginary stories about an imminent threat which in simple words for simpletons like you that Insurgents were going to be launched inside India. But alas, What can I say about your IQ. Only good for name calling others with your stupid logics


----------



## Grevion

Levina said:


> I heard they were instructed "leave no bodies and buddies behind".
> But didn't expect this. Gosh!


Well they might have brought the dead terrorists as a proof of the operation.

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## Bratva

R!CK said:


> oh so u mean to say.....
> 
> 1. You admit terrorists are launched from your territory?
> 
> 2. or you have seen them being armed to teeth before they head out to India?
> 
> P.S: Don't care about what Indians or Pakistanis in this forum thinks about the issue. If its true, good enough and if its false, its about time something is done. I'm just surprised few people are still in denial about Kargil and OBL lol.
> 
> Good Day to all the haters!




Are you that deft ? Because I'm talking about an imaginary scenario. If you cant understand or analyze properly about the discussion being held here then dont try to interject or disrupt the flow of logical discussion with your illogical remarks


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## Levina

Indrajit said:


> Loyalty to country I understand,
> Alternate reality is where they live in, that too I understand.....
> 
> What I don't understand is why you _(& others)_ go on banging your heads against a rock.... You can explain as many times as you want, they either will not or cannot see it....


Okayyyyy.
I didn't start it but atleast you can give me credit for not letting it escalate.



litefire said:


> Jiji, you need to charge your phone asap.


It's lunch time.


@R!CK @litefire @Indrajit I hope nobody gives in to provocation.

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## Indrajit

Bratva said:


> Another one of the 90 percent Iditot joins the claim who thinks Insurgents are launched over Indian side in a day light Did you even hear what you DGMO was saying that they detect a imminent threat to be launched from launching PAD meaning the threats were not sleeping at that time but rather were in full readiness to come across Kashmir? You and @Levina patting each other back. I pity you both for not using even 1 percent of your brain and musture some logical answers.



_Oooh_, the genius condescends to reply.... Ya buddy, the terrorists get launched the night they arrive, no such thing as waiting for the perfect opportunity....and they sit armed to their teeth waiting... 

Forget using 1% of my brain, with the hold on logic you demonstrate, I probably shouldn't even bother....


----------



## Bratva

Indrajit said:


> Loyalty to country I understand,
> Alternate reality is where they live in, that too I understand.....
> 
> What I don't understand is why you _(& others)_ go on banging your heads against a rock.... You can explain as many times as you want, they either will not or cannot see it....



Indrajit. Buwhahahaha, People like you are the reason Kaitju was forced to say 90 percent of Indians are idiots. Enough said, Because instead of countering my replies so far added zero valuable thing to this discussion. Enough Said.



Indrajit said:


> _Oooh_, the genius condescends to reply.... Ya buddy, the terrorists get launched the night they arrive, no such thing as waiting for the perfect opportunity....and they sit armed to their teeth waiting...
> 
> Forget using 1% of my brain, with the hold on logic you demonstrate, I probably shouldn't even bother....



I mean, in which imagianary world you are living right now. You dont have any idea how insurgents from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or anywhere around the world do exactly like that from lauching pad , cross border in nights, attack the opposing sides Perhaps educate yourself by searching videos on the Livel.leak, where Insurgents in Syria and Syrian army both remain armed to teeth most of the time during Heightened alerts.

Is it my fault that your lack of knowledge, geography, The camps so near to LoC with such lax attitudes which in militaristic sense is a Big NOPE and NEVER NEVER OCCURS DURING Heightened alerts is making you look idiot again and again and with you laughing you are making your case more weak ?

*YOUR OWN GENERAL SAID THAT THREAT WAS IMMINENT. GO ASK SOMEONE MORE INTELLIGENT YOU THAT WHAT IMMINENT THREAT MEANS? WHETHER THAT UNARMED INSURGENTS SLEEPING IN THE LAUNCHING PADS OR THE INSURGENTS WERE GOING TO CROSS LoC* 

Go update your knowledge and then talk logic with me.

Another Egg on indians face regarding their claims of how America were informed about this or how they helped us in jamming Pak Radars

https://defence.pk/threads/usa-wasn...-surgical-strike-upfront.452770/#post-8756284


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## Indrajit

Bratva said:


> Indrajit. Buwhahahaha, People like you are the reason Kaitju was forced to say 90 percent of Indians are idiots. Enough said, Because instead of countering my replies so far added zero valuable thing to this discussion. Enough Said.



You should stick to _"Buwhahahaha".._..don't be wasting your time on logic. That & calling names are pretty much all that you have shown a talent for here. I will engage if & when I see a post from you that demands a response that would use more than 1% of my brain. So far I have yet to see any that merit that.


----------



## Bratva

Indrajit said:


> You should stick to _"Buwhahahaha".._..don't be wasting your time on logic. That & calling names are pretty much all that you have shown a talent for here. I will engage if & when I see a post from you that demands a response that would use more than 1% of my brain. So far I have yet to see any that merit that.



And then I rest my case. Because your evasive answers and not answering single query of mine is for all to see. Hence proved that Idiots find way out from the debates that they know they cant win or can counter logically. Continue to chest thump with all other Indians members here .


----------



## Indrajit

Bratva said:


> I mean, in which imagianary world you are living right now. You dont have any idea how insurgents from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or anywhere around the world do exactly like that from lauching pad , cross border in nights, attack the opposing sides Perhaps educate yourself by searching videos on the Livel.leak, where Insurgents in Syria and Syrian army both remain armed to teeth most of the time during Heightened alerts.
> 
> Is it my fault that your lack of knowledge, geography, The camps so near to LoC with such lax attitudes which in militaristic sense is a Big NOPE and NEVER NEVER OCCURS DURING Heightened alerts is making you look idiot again and again and with you laughing you are making your case more weak ?
> 
> Go update your knowledge and then talk logic with me.



Yawn, seriously man, go bore someone else with your updated knowledge.


----------



## R!CK

Bratva said:


> Emmm, *Do you have any Idea when a person is launched from Launching Pad, he is always armed to teeth so that he can Fight indian soldiers across Border if they try to stop him*.





Bratva said:


> *Because I'm talking about an imaginary scenario*.



I'd recommend you get English lessons before you talk big? People don't read a forum with a crystal ball to know if you are talking about imaginary fairies or power puff girls.



Bratva said:


> *And another Idiot joins the party*,



Yea everyone except you is an Idiot. Cant be any other logical reason to respond to someone so stubborn and full of himself. Next time you wanna call someone names, start at home and not others.

P.S: Since you seem to have communication problems, the word ignorant is not name calling in English btw.

Good Day to you and your wall!

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## Indrajit

Bratva said:


> And then I rest my case. Because your evasive answers and not answering single query of mine is for all to see. Hence proved that Idiots find way out from the debates that they know they cant win or can counter logically. Continue to chest thump with all other Indians members here .



Yawn again.


----------



## Bratva

R!CK said:


> I'd recommend you get English lessons before you talk big? People don't read a forum with a crystal ball to know if you are talking about imaginary fairies or power puff girls.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea everyone except you is an Idiot. Cant be any other logical reason to respond to someone so stubborn and full of himself. Next time you wanna call someone names, start at home and not others.
> 
> P.S: Since you seem to have communication problems, the word ignorant is not name calling in English calling.
> 
> Good Day to you and your wall!




English lessons, I'm talking about from Indian perspective all along to understand and judge where there are so many holes in your story . Is it my mistake that your meager IQ and mental acumen cant understand all these things ? 

With you and another brainless indrajit I havent received single Answer to my queries. Please Enlighten me about the queries I raised because you know about *Guerilla* warfare more than I See as it seems


----------



## Trying to be honest

Bratva said:


> And who is talking India serious now on their Imaginary claims Might I ask ? or for that Matter when Turkey downed the Russian Fighter JET did India backed Russia against Turkey or who stood behind Russia at that time ? If it is your scale of judging seriousness of Party X not being taken serious by other 25 Alphabets , Than I might add your sense of logic and sane is in shard decline now a days. Because I asked Pakistan showed something physical not made imaginary claims like you guys are making. Try to understand what is someone saying instead of going on tangents liek Arnab gosawami


Did the US show any evidence of a dead osama , despite everything. How can you expect India to provide evidence to the public. What you say may be true that nothing happened, but there is equal probability that something happened. We as civilians can only assume as per our pre-conceived notions or just wait


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## Bratva

Didact said:


> I understand the question is laced more with rhetoric than with genuine curiosity, but for the sake of others, I'll provide a general explanation of what a launch pad is (as referred to by the DGMO). Please feel free to ignore me. I have no interest in engaging a think tank intent on rhetoric.
> 
> The Launch Pad being described by the DGMO is the final holding point for the militants waiting to cross the LC. The analogue to this is the Forming Up Point in military parlance, and to a lesser extent, the base camp in mountaineering circles. *They mostly consist of a few tents and rations plus supplies for anywhere from a week to 10 days. *
> 
> The militants arriving on these FuPs are sent up front to the start line (SL) (anywhere from 200m-1000m from the fencing) when the final clearance by higher ups is made, ideally within 2-4 days. Too long, and risks to infiltration by the party increases substantially.This is also the point the militants retreat to in case the insertion fails or is called off for whatever reason.




You see another gaping hole in your theory. An Insurgent going to be launched to another side in 2016 when he knows how much india is armed to teeth and you expect Insurgents to be either sleeping or lightly armed in their launching pads ? Remind me again, Did Uri attakcers came armed to teeth or did they first crossed the border armed themselves inside kashmir and then attacked Uri Camp

Forget about sleeping in night. The best time of day to sleep for such guys are obviously in the morning and afternoon. Or do you expect indians to strike such camps during daylight now ? 



Trying to be honest said:


> Did the US show any evidence of a dead osama , despite everything. How can you expect India to provide evidence to the public. What you say may be true that nothing happened, but there is equal probability that something happened. We as civilians can only assume as per our pre-conceived notions or just wait



Did or Did not Pakistan agreed with USA assertions ?


----------



## R!CK

Bratva said:


> English lessons, I'm talking about from Indian perspective all along to understand and judge where there are so many holes in your story . Is it my mistake that your meager IQ and mental acumen cant understand all these things ?
> 
> *With you and another brainless* indrajit I havent received single Answer to my queries. Please Enlighten me about the queries I raised because you know about *Guerilla* warfare more than I See as it seems



Only because you seem to be in a hurry and seem to be missing out on what people write. I've clearly mentioned in my first post that I'm not debating on this whole issue. The brainless one here is the guy who is arguing with me without even reading what i posted in the first place. Mayb its not English lessons you need, a good pair of specs and some patience to read things through ?



R!CK said:


> P.S: *Don't care about what Indians or Pakistanis in this forum thinks about the issue. If its true, good enough and if its false, its about time something is done.* I'm just surprised few people are still in denial about Kargil and OBL lol.
> 
> Good Day to all the haters!



Good Day to you and your unique reading skills!


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## Lord Of Gondor

Please move all discussion related to the Surgical Strikes to the relevant thread.
This is a nice thread with great pictures, let it be.
And stop trying to convince the other side.

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## Grevion

Levina said:


> It's lunch time.
> 
> 
> @R!CK @litefire @Indrajit nobody gives in to provocation. Okay?


I am not here to convince them, they can believe whatever they want.
While we will believe what our army, DGMO and govt has told us.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG's toys

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## mkb95

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 339688
> 
> NSG's toys


never seen nsg with an ak.

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## Levina

mkb95 said:


> never seen nsg with an ak.


Captured prolly!

I like your DP. It's cool.

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## Rajeev_Anand

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> As I said where is the proof of the total chutiyapa claimed by you without any details?
> 
> 
> 
> I do.. We did own it up by merging a paramilitary into regular army and awarding medals etc..
> 
> Everybody knew it... Nobody made false claims in the air.


Still those brave shaheeds are searching for atleast an acknowledgement from Pakistanis, you even do not respect the mens who have made supreme sacrifice in the service of their nation. Please they deserves far better words and to tell the SSGs till date have not been able to capture Siachin.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Rajeev_Anand said:


> Still those brave shaheeds are searching for atleast an acknowledgement from Pakistanis, you even do not respect the mens who have made supreme sacrifice in the service of their nation. Please they deserves far better words and to tell the SSGs till date have not been able to capture Siachin.


Which shaheeds ? Pakistanis treat our martyrs much better than you that's for sure.. We don't transport bodies on garbage trucks or steal even their coffins..

As for siachin .. Again that was your cowardly act and of no strategic value.


----------



## Rajeev_Anand

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Which shaheeds ? Pakistanis treat our martyrs much better than you that's for sure.. We don't transport bodies on garbage trucks or steal even their coffins..
> 
> As for siachin .. Again that was your cowardly act and of no strategic value.


You just read your fellow's words and comprehend it and I am resting my case.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rajeev_Anand said:


> You just read your fellow's words and comprehend it and I am resting my case.



Which "fellow"?


----------



## mkb95

Garuds ready to take positions during Vajra Air Fest held at HQ Eastern Air Command. Shillong ALG today

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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 339688
> 
> NSG's toys



Thanks, I was looking for a photo of the AK-63D with the NSG. India had acquired a sizeable amount of AK-63Ds from Hungary pre-IPKF or during that time.

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## R!CK

mkb95 said:


> Garuds ready to take positions during Vajra Air Fest held at HQ Eastern Air Command. Shillong ALG today



Maybe blur the faces bro?

Good Day!

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## mkb95

R!CK said:


> Maybe blur the faces bro?
> 
> Good Day!


i dont think garuds have problem showing faces.lots of their photos are available with their faces shown.
btw,here is the og source

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/782258906781188096


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## #hydra#

Howour Marcos compares with our para.


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## SDS1

#hydra# said:


> Howour Marcos compares with our para.


Marcos are specialized in wet conditions especially, river , lake, sea, underwater type infiltration.

India used MARCOS heavily in JK, they are known as " Dahadhi walle fauji" , terrorist also fear the MARCOS, which ever area the MARCOS move , terrorist leave that zone. 

only one Marcos killed in JK. , that was in 90's 20's after that SF got trained in same kind of warfare.

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## cerberus

SDS1 said:


> Marcos are specialized in wet conditions especially, river , lake, sea, underwater type infiltration.


So are PARA SF 
You should See 21 Para SF Op in LoTak Lake


----------



## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 339688
> 
> NSG's toys


NSG don't use the AK.



Levina said:


> Captured prolly!
> 
> I like your DP. It's cool.


More like for "familiarisation" training. Most specialist units in the world have a huge array of different types of small arms in their armoury so that their members can become familiar with them and proficient in their workings in case they encounter them in ops.

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## SDS1

cerberus said:


> So are PARA SF
> You should See 21 Para SF Op in LoTak Lake


well , during height of insurgency , India used Marcos , especially in dal lake they begin.

Everyone has its own specialty / strength / equipment...


----------



## ranjeet

@Abingdonboy 
Are those Para behind the COAS? and which gun is that?

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> Garuds ready to take positions during Vajra Air Fest held at HQ Eastern Air Command. Shillong ALG today


5 operators, 4 different types of ammo......only the Garuds 



ranjeet said:


> @Abingdonboy
> Are those Para behind the COAS? and which gun is that?


Yup. COAS has a personal protection detail of Military Police and PARA (SF) (on deputation). 

Weapon is the M4.

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## cerberus

SDS1 said:


> well , during height of insurgency , India used Marcos , especially in dal lake they begin.
> 
> Everyone has its own specialty / strength / equipment...


Only in Limited Numbers Actually There Inter Agency rivalries Para Usually don't Like It Until special Accusations

Buddies are bonded At Battalion Level So they are Make themselves reserve

Actually it is happened Because there is No Unified Command


----------



## ranjeet

Abingdonboy said:


> 5 operators, 4 different types of ammo......only the Garuds
> 
> 
> Yup. COAS has a personal protection detail of Military Police and PARA (SF) (on deputation).
> 
> Weapon is the M4.


Any particular reason for different weapons used by close/personal protection details of PM and army chief?


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## Abingdonboy

#hydra# said:


> Howour Marcos compares with our para.





SDS1 said:


> Marcos are specialized in wet conditions especially, river , lake, sea, underwater type infiltration.
> 
> India used MARCOS heavily in JK, they are known as " Dahadhi walle fauji" , terrorist also fear the MARCOS, which ever area the MARCOS move , terrorist leave that zone.
> 
> only one Marcos killed in JK. , that was in 90's 20's after that SF got trained in same kind of warfare.





cerberus said:


> Only in Limited Numbers Actually There Inter Agency rivalries Para Usually don't Like It Until special Accusations
> 
> Buddies are bonded At Battalion Level So they are Make themselves reserve
> 
> Actually it is happened Because there is No Unified Command


All three SFs in india receive very very similar training. 

Whilst the PARA (SF) undoubtably have the most experience under their belt, the MARCOs are involved "in the fight" in Kashmir also as well as having their own responsibilities in the maritime domain. Meanwhile the Garuds are deployed in Anti-Naxal ops and in high risk/strategic air installations. 

One would be surprised by the deployment pattern of all three SF units and it is unfair to try and rank them. They are all top of the line.



ranjeet said:


> Any particular reason for different weapons used by close/personal protection details of PM and army chief?


The M4 is already in service with the PARA (SF) so naturally the COAS's security detail will have access to it. 

The PM is guarded by an entirely separate force (SPG) with their own armoury and requirements so have different weapons (P-90 and Fn-2000).

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## United




----------



## SDS1

cerberus said:


> Only in Limited Numbers Actually There Inter Agency rivalries Para Usually don't Like It Until special Accusations
> 
> Buddies are bonded At Battalion Level So they are Make themselves reserve
> 
> Actually it is happened Because there is No Unified Command



not really, with SF/Marcos things are different, their is no rivalries. Maroc was chosen because of their look.

their is talk to combine all SF into one command direct under PM for strategic operations


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## Abingdonboy

SDS1 said:


> not really, with SF/Marcos things are different, their is no rivalries. Maroc was chosen because of their look.
> 
> their is talk to combine all SF into one command direct under PM for strategic operations


SOCOM wouldn't be directly under the PMO (that is more or less what Special Group are for) but would exist as a distinct branch of the military (like SFC or ANC). The provisions for the SOCOM already exist, all that is waiting is the clearance from the MoD. God knows why the process is being stalled now.

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## SDS1

United said:


>


fake vids ..... training vids, Non Indian soldiers vids and last one is good one, 

even after big explosion the post remain intact, no post material is flying..... sold morphed vids.

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## cerberus

SDS1 said:


> not really, with SF/Marcos things are different, their is no rivalries. Maroc was chosen because of their look.
> 
> their is talk to combine all SF into one command direct under PM for strategic operations


There Rivalries Mate it Present Even in US SF and SEAL & Marines everywhere 

Secondly there is No Single Entity call SOMCOM in India Right Now

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## R!CK

United said:


>



Because you are shameless to cross post the same video everywhere. Let me cross post my reply.

"I don't get the point of posting a 2 year old video now? That too shot by Mujahidden? Don't you have shame to take credit of terrorist acts? lol

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/ready-fo...-force-ready-to-respond.452808/#ixzz4Lrxd2K2c



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


Good Day to you and your bright mind!

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/ready-fo...-force-ready-to-respond.452808/#ixzz4LrxjY5PT "

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## saumyasupratik

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG don't use the AK.


Okay







Quite a few of these AK-63Ds were acquired by India during the 80s.

EDIT : Never mind those are regular AKMS only, not AK-63Ds.

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## Abingdonboy

Members of the SPG's Counter Assualt Team (CAT) pictured as the PM departs from a helipad in Calicut, Kerela:








































They are dismounting from their vehicle(s) in the PM's motorcade and moving to a support helo prior to the departure of the PM's helo.

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## Abingdonboy

A couple more (from a different angle) :















Random observation, first time I've seen a female member of the PM's Close Protection Team (CPT) carrying a P-90 PDW:

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## Unknowncommando

@saumyasupratik bro seems like you have good knowledge about AK series weapons. Can you tell me if there are any rare variants in service with our armed forces. I am very bad at identifying AKs but i have very good collection of pictures.
@Abingdonboy bro NSG doesn't use AKs now but in past they used them and for training purpose. BTW nice SPG pictures. 
Bro Garuds when they come together for drill they always look like this. Some are posted in naxal hit areas too for protection of choppers and also they work with COBRAs. This is first time i can see UCP patten with GARUDs.

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## RPK

The Garuds Commando Force. 

Here is the latest pic of India's one of the most elite and highly advanced commando force. Indian Air Force Garuds spotted at the ALG Shillong during Vajra Air Fest held at HQ Eastern Air Command yesterday.

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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> @saumyasupratik bro seems like you have good knowledge about AK series weapons. Can you tell me if there are any rare variants in service with our armed forces. I am very bad at identifying AKs but i have very good collection of pictures.


I was wrong about this one. But sure go ahead.

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## Dandpatta

What's with the different camo and different shoes? Can't they have one camo pattern? There are at least 3 different ones here. One woodland (of xtreme left ), brit desert camo (second from left), Two Garuds in the front using grey digicamo. 



RPK said:


> The Garuds Commando Force.
> 
> Here is the latest pic of India's one of the most elite and highly advanced commando force. Indian Air Force Garuds spotted at the ALG Shillong during Vajra Air Fest held at HQ Eastern Air Command yesterday.


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## Unknowncommando

Dandpatta said:


> What's with the different camo and different shoes? Can't they have one camo pattern? There are at least 3 different ones here. One woodland (of xtreme left ), brit desert camo (second from left), Two Garuds in the front using grey digicamo.


Brother whenever there is an Air Show all the Garuds come from their respective duty areas. Some of them are posted in desert areas means (Desert MARPAT And their new standard digi camo) some of them for airport security (Mostly Old standard and current standard Camo of IA along with UCP )some of them posted in Naxal hit areas along with CRPF COBRAS (Jungle MARPAT) and (Old Standard camo of Garuds). Some are posted in NE so they have suitable camos according to terrain.




This is the picture taken by me on 30 Nov 2013 During Air Show At Sonegaon Airbase, Nagpur. And the first question i asked them was about different camos. They gave me the same answer. So when they come together for Air Show/Fest they wear camo accordingly.

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## Dandpatta

Thank you for the very detailed answer and I appreciate your taking time to answer. Thank you Bhai !!!



Unknowncommando said:


> Brother whenever there is an Air Show all the Garuds come from their respective duty areas. Some of them are posted in desert areas means (Desert MARPAT And their new standard digi camo) some of them for airport security (Mostly Old standard and current standard Camo of IA along with UCP )some of them posted in Naxal hit areas along with CRPF COBRAS (Jungle MARPAT) and (Old Standard camo of Garuds). Some are posted in NE so they have suitable camos according to terrain.
> View attachment 340179
> 
> This is the picture taken by me on 30 Nov 2013 During Air Show At Sonegaon Airbase, Nagpur. And the first question i asked them was about different camos. They gave me the same answer. So when they come together for Air Show/Fest they wear camo accordingly.

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## mkb95

Unknowncommando said:


> Lol. Still look at condition of their nation. Terrorists everywhere. No one can judge any sf in the world. What is imp that are they keeping their nation safe. Ranking especially in military dont have any importance. After all a war can judge all the capabilities of a force. And plzz dont post these things on this thread. Stick to INDIAN SF bro. Coz things like this starts more arguments.
> View attachment 224327
> View attachment 224328
> View attachment 224331
> View attachment 224333
> 
> Indian Army Paratroopers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Para commando at CIJWs old pic


apology for quoting an old post but these looks awesome.
is there any full video from where these gifs were taken?
edit=nevermind,found the video from your another post.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando

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## Abingdonboy

_A special armoured vehicle, designed by security experts at the Defence and Research Development Organsiation with assistance by the Indian Army, has also been provided for the prime minister. The car is presently parked at the PM’s official residence. It is in the process of being inducted into the prime minister’s motorcade.
_
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/extra-security-for-pm-president/20161005.htm


@Unknowncommando @bloo @nair @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @ranjeet @Levina @MilSpec @Water Car Engineer @acetophenol @Ankit Kumar 002 @Echo_419 @SR-91 @randomradio @Armani any ideas what this new DRDO vehicle could be for the PM's motorcade? The only thing I can think of is something similar to the HAMMER in POTUS's motorcade.

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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> _A special armoured vehicle, designed by security experts at the Defence and Research Development Organsiation with assistance by the Indian Army, has also been provided for the prime minister. The car is presently parked at the PM’s official residence. It is in the process of being inducted into the prime minister’s motorcade.
> _
> http://www.rediff.com/news/report/extra-security-for-pm-president/20161005.htm
> 
> 
> @Unknowncommando @bloo @nair @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @ranjeet @Levina @MilSpec @Water Car Engineer @acetophenol @Ankit Kumar 002 @Echo_419 @SR-91 @randomradio @Armani any ideas what this new DRDO vehicle could be for the PM's motorcade? The only thing I can think of is something similar to the HAMMER in POTUS's motorcade.




I wonder who is the production agency with DRDO.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Levina

Abingdonboy said:


> The only thing I can think of is something similar to the HAMMER in POTUS's motorcade



Oh!
Do you mean the Hazmat ambulance? 
Possible.

Could you post the pic?

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## Fenrir

Abingdonboy said:


> The only thing I can think of is something similar to the HAMMER in POTUS's motorcade.



Do you mean the "Beast" or "Stagecoach", also called "Spare" when there are additional, identical vehicles? There is no vehicle called "Hammer" or coded as such in the presidential motorcade.






Other vehicles include, but are by no means limited to"

"Halfback", which carries the POTUS' security team.





"Watchtower", which provides electronic support countermeasures.





"Hawkeye", which transports CAT teams.





"Roadrunner", acting as the command and control node for the motorcade.





"Overwatch", which is hopefully self explanatory.





"Ground Force One", an alternative transport for long-distance travel.





Adding to this are police units, the "sweeper" which clears a route and dry-runs it before the motorcade comes through, ambulances, hazmat units and press vehicles. But not one of them is called Hammer.






Here's a great rundown of the POTUS motorcade.

...

If you can clarify what you mean by "Hammer". I can probably tell you what this DRDO/IA version is doing or what it's role will be.

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## hkdas

Water Car Engineer said:


>


bro.. post the video link ...


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## hkdas

Water Car Engineer said:


>


bro.. post the video link ...

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## Abingdonboy

Technogaianist said:


> Do you mean the "Beast" or "Stagecoach", also called "Spare" when there are additional, identical vehicles? There is no vehicle called "Hammer" or coded as such in the presidential motorcade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other vehicles include, but are by no means limited to"
> 
> "Halfback", which carries the POTUS' security team.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Watchtower", which provides electronic support countermeasures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hawkeye", which transports CAT teams.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Roadrunner", acting as the command and control node for the motorcade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Overwatch", which is hopefully self explanatory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Ground Force One", an alternative transport for long-distance travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adding to this are police units, the "sweeper" which clears a route and dry-runs it before the motorcade comes through, ambulances, hazmat units and press vehicles. But not one of them is called Hammer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a great rundown of the POTUS motorcade.
> 
> ...
> 
> If you can clarify what you mean by "Hammer". I can probably tell you what this DRDO/IA version is doing or what it's role will be.


From the link provided the vehicle I am referring to is the "Hazardous Materials Mitigation unit" (black Ford F-350 tactical truck- image attached to this post). Also referred to as hazardous-material teams/Hazardous Agent Mitigation Medical Response —or “Hammer”.


A similar type vehicle to detect/respond to NBC threats is what I suspect is being referenced here for the Indian PM's motorcade as this was reported last year that the SPG was raising a new team (which I suspect was for the hazardous materials mitigation role) and every other vehicle you have outlined already has a parallel in the SPG's motorcade for the PM as it is (barring "Roadrunner" ).

A year ago I had said as much:
https://defence.pk/threads/indian-special-forces.43257/page-374#post-7055752

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## mkb95



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## noksss



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## manojb

Just found this on web, not sure about authenticity, looks like the uploader has only one video. It has only 6 views so far. 




@hkdas @Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer


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## Water Car Engineer

manojb said:


> Just found this on web, not sure about authenticity, looks like the uploader has only one video. It has only 6 views so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @hkdas @Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer




Dont think so, I even seen a M16 there. There be a lot of fake, mistitled videos going around. Confirmation will come from Pakistan's side, eventually. No different to Kargil.


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## SarthakGanguly

manojb said:


> Just found this on web, not sure about authenticity, looks like the uploader has only one video. It has only 6 views so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @hkdas @Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer


Fake. There was no such heavy volume of fire.


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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


>


Not SF.



manojb said:


> Just found this on web, not sure about authenticity, looks like the uploader has only one video. It has only 6 views so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @hkdas @Abingdonboy @Water Car Engineer


US SF.


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## cloud_9

manojb said:


> Just found this on web, not sure about authenticity, looks like the uploader has only one video. It has only 6 views so far.


Until and unless white people were hired to do the job.


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## mkb95

Water Car Engineer said:


>


is it from a video?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784225347407532032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784226507778424832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784227078702977025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784227886144233472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784229758657630208

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784232253664538625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784232626919919616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784235028452564992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784236293198753792

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## Hindustani78

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...-50000-more-men/article9200306.ece?ref=tpnews




*Presently, the city police have 78,194 personnel*
If the latest request by the Delhi Police is approved by the Ministry of Home Affairs, *the force’s strength will be enhanced by 54,195 personnel, taking the overall number to well over a lakh.*

In a letter sent to the MHA on September 30, the Delhi police have stated that the city needs *additional 54,195 policemen at different levels, from senior officers to constables, to ensure sufficient security.*

*Long-standing demand*

The letter has already been cleared by Lieutenant-Governor Najeeb Jung. Since the recommendation for the additional force was made by a committee which had a representative from the MHA as its member, senior officers are hopeful that the long-standing demand of the police for more men would be met this time round.

“In the past when similar requests were placed, the MHA recommended that the police should focus on technology rather than increasing manpower. But we need policemen to operate technology because there is no substitute to beat policing,” said a senior Delhi Police officer.

“Modernisation is a continuous process with projects like criminal dossier system, online applications, additional patrols, traffic units, cyber cell and women help desk among others. But even technology needs people to handle it,” the officer added. *Presently, the city police have 78,194 personnel and are at least 8,000 men short of their sanctioned strength of 86,653. The force comprises policemen deployed in VVIPs security, traffic police, special branch and many other units. Only 32,000 policemen are deployed at various police stations and investigation duties*.

*High-level committee*

Joint Commissioner of Police (Headquarters) Praveer Ranjan told _The Hindu_ that the high-level committee set up in June had submitted the report last month after which the letter was sent to the MHA through the L-G. As for the current status of the letter: it’s been cleared by the L-G but awaits final approval by MHA.

“The committee looked into several norms of recruitment and calculated the shortage in every unit, district and even at the level of police station and then came up with the final figure," said Mr. Ranjan, himself a member of the committee. The committee also comprised Joint Secretary (Union Territory) of the MHA and Special Commissioner of Police (New Delhi Range).

Mr. Ranjan added that the recruitment will be carried out in three phases in the next three financial years and the final revised strength would also factor in the retirements in these years and the promotions already announced. The final figure would, however, cross the one lakh mark, said Mr. Ranjan.


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## mkb95



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## mkb95

nice footage.

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## mkb95



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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF with ANA SF

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## noksss

*Pakistan-based terror outfit Lashker-e-Taiba(LeT) suffered the maximum damage in the cross-LoC *surgical strikes* on terror launch pads carried out by *Indian army* with assessment reports of radio intercepts indicating that around 20 of its militants were killed.* 

*The terrorists, mainly belonging to the LeT, were seen running towards the Pakistani post when they were killed by the Indian troops, according to the assessment reports.* 


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...tants-killed-Reports/articleshow/54763818.cms

Maroof Raza was quoting a very high number of causalities on the strike I am sure this is a under reporting . This kind of strike is required to reduce the morale of Lakshars who's Morale was too high post the Mumbai attack

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## Grevion

Operation Ginger: Tit-for-tat across the Line of Control
Updated: October 9, 2016 15:40 IST | Vijacoldh & Josy Joseph


 

 

 

 






Documents pertaining to the 2011 surgical strikes, code-named Operation Ginger, conducted by India across the LoC after a Pakistani attack on a remote Army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara claimed 6 soldiers. Photos: Special Arrangement




Documents pertaining to the 2011 surgical strikes, code-named Operation Ginger, conducted by India across the LoC after a Pakistani attack on a remote Army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara claimed 6 soldiers.

Documents pertaining to the 2011 surgical strikes, code-named Operation Ginger, conducted by India across the LoC after a Pakistani attack on a remote Army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara claimed 6 soldiers. Photo: Special Arrangement

Official documents reveal the details of surgical strike in 2011
Over a few weeks in the summer of 2011, India and Pakistan staged two of the bloodiest cross-border surgical strikes in which at least 13 soldiers were killed, and six of them decapitated. Five of those heads were carried across the border as trophies — two to Pakistan and three to India.

Official documents, video and photographic evidence accessed by the _The Hindu_, chillingly capture the two cross-border raids and the brutality of the tit-for-tat cycle which seems far deadlier than what is publicly acknowledged.





Major General (retired) S.K. Chakravorty, who planned and executed the operation as the chief of Kupwara-based 28 Division, confirmed the raid to _The Hindu_.

However, he refused to discuss further details.

The Pakistani raiders struck a remote army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara, on the afternoon of July 30, 2011, surprising the six soldiers from the Rajput and Kumaon regiments. The 19 Rajput Battalion was to be replaced by 20 Kumaon around the time the Pakistani Border Action Team (BAT) struck. The attacking team took back the heads of Havildar Jaipal Singh Adhikari and Lance Naik Devender Singh of 20 Kumaon. A soldier of the 19 Rajput, who reported the attack, died later in a hospital.

*Reconnaisance mission*

In revenge, the Indian Army planned Operation Ginger, which would turn out to be one of the deadliest cross-border raids carried out by the Indian Army in recent memory.

To carry out the revenge attack at least seven reconnaissance — physical and air surveillance mounted on UAV — missions were carried out to identify potential targets.






Consequently, three Pakistani army posts were determined to be vulnerable: Police Chowki, a Pakistani army post near Jor, Hifazat and Lashdat lodging point. The mission was to spring an ambush on Police Chowki to inflict maximum casualty.

According to a secret report of the raid, accessed by this newspaper, different teams for ambush, demolition, surgical strike and surveillance were constituted following the Gugaldhar beheadings.

A few days after the beheading, Indian Army discovered a video clip from a Pakistani militant who was killed in an encounter while crossing into Kashmir, showing Pakistanis standing around the severed heads of Adhikari and Singh displayed on raised platform. _The Hindu_ has a copy of the video.

After repeated recce over two months, the Army launched Operation Ginger on Tuesday, August 30. According to one of those involved in the operation, “We decided on Tuesday because in the past, including in Kargil war (of 1999) we always tasted victory on this day. We deliberately planned the operation just a day before the Eid as it was the time when Pakistanis least expected a retaliation,” he said.

For the strike, about 25 soldiers, mainly Para Commandos, reached their launch-pad at 3 a.m. on August 29 and hid there until 10 p.m. They then crossed over the Line of Control to reach close to Police Chowki. By 4 a.m. on August 30, the planned day of the attack, the ambush team was deep within the enemy territory waiting to strike.

Over the next hour, claymore mines were placed around the area and the commandos took positions for the ambush, waiting for clearance through secure communication route. At 7 a.m. on August 30, the troops saw four Pakistani soldiers, led by a Junior Commissioned Officer, walking towards the ambush site. They waited till the Pakistanis reached the site then detonated the mines. In the explosions all four were grieviously injured. Then the raiding commandoes lobbed grenades and fired at them.

One of the Pakistani soldiers fell into a stream that ran below. Indian soldiers rushed to chop off the heads of the other three dead soldiers. They also took away their rank insignias, weapons and other personal items. The commandos then planted pressure IED’s beneath one of the bodies, primed to explode when anyone attempted to lift the body.

Hearing the explosions, two Pakistani soldiers rushed from the post but were killed by a second Indian team waiting near the ambush site. Two other Pakistani army men tried to trap the second team but a third team covering them from behind eliminated the two, says an official report.

While the Indian soldiers were retreating, another group of Pakistani soldiers were spotted moving from Police Chowki towards the ambush site. Soon they heard loud explosions, indicating the triggering of the IEDs planted under the body, according to the report. According to assessment, at least two to three more Pakistani soldiers were killed in that blast.

The operation had lasted 45 minutes, and the Indian team left the area by 7.45 a.m. to head back across the LoC. The first team reached an Indian army post at 12 noon and the last party by 2.30 p.m.. They had been inside enemy territory for about 48 hours, including for reconnaissance. At least eight Pakistani troops had been killed and another two or three more Pakistani soldiers may have been fatally injured in the action. Three Pakistani heads — of Subedar Parvez, Havildar Aftab and Naik Imran — three AK 47 rifles and other weapons were among the trophies carried back by the Indian soldiers.

*No traces*


“But this was not without the heart pounding moments. We got a message on our secure line that one of our jawans accidentally fell on a mine and blew his finger while exfiltrating. Till the time you have seen the person, it was difficult to say what exactly could have happened. He came back safely with his buddies,” said the source.

The severed heads were photographed, and buried on the instructions of senior officers. Two days later, one of the senior most Generals in the command turned up and asked the team about the heads. “When he came to know that we had buried them, he was furious and asked us to dig up the heads, burn them and throw the ashes into the Kishenganga, so that no DNA traces are left behind. We did so,” said the source
http://m.thehindu.com/news/national...across-the-line-of-control/article9202758.ece
Not sure if this is already posted.
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @Ankit Kumar 002 @Levina @MilSpec @Joe Shearer @hellfire @jbgt90 @Water Car Engineer @mkb95

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## Unknowncommando

Marine Commando
Aimpoint sight on AK
http://ofb.gov.in/products/data/optical/add_41.htm
This OFB made Aimpoint Red Dot Sight is in use with COBRAS,MH FORCE ONE,MP QRT,GREYHOUNDS,GARUDA And many more Police Units.

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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> Marine Commando
> Aimpoint sight on AK
> http://ofb.gov.in/products/data/optical/add_41.htm
> This OFB made Aimpoint Red Dot Sight is in use with COBRAS,MH FORCE ONE,MP QRT,GREYHOUNDS,GARUDA And many more Police Units.


Looks like a Aimpoint Comp M4 than the OFB RDS, and thanks never knew the MARCOS use the AR M1F41.


----------



## noksss

litefire said:


> Operation Ginger: Tit-for-tat across the Line of Control
> Updated: October 9, 2016 15:40 IST | Vijacoldh & Josy Joseph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Documents pertaining to the 2011 surgical strikes, code-named Operation Ginger, conducted by India across the LoC after a Pakistani attack on a remote Army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara claimed 6 soldiers. Photos: Special Arrangement
> 
> Documents pertaining to the 2011 surgical strikes, code-named Operation Ginger, conducted by India across the LoC after a Pakistani attack on a remote Army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara claimed 6 soldiers.
> 
> Documents pertaining to the 2011 surgical strikes, code-named Operation Ginger, conducted by India across the LoC after a Pakistani attack on a remote Army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara claimed 6 soldiers. Photo: Special Arrangement
> 
> Official documents reveal the details of surgical strike in 2011
> Over a few weeks in the summer of 2011, India and Pakistan staged two of the bloodiest cross-border surgical strikes in which at least 13 soldiers were killed, and six of them decapitated. Five of those heads were carried across the border as trophies — two to Pakistan and three to India.
> 
> Official documents, video and photographic evidence accessed by the _The Hindu_, chillingly capture the two cross-border raids and the brutality of the tit-for-tat cycle which seems far deadlier than what is publicly acknowledged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Major General (retired) S.K. Chakravorty, who planned and executed the operation as the chief of Kupwara-based 28 Division, confirmed the raid to _The Hindu_.
> 
> However, he refused to discuss further details.
> 
> The Pakistani raiders struck a remote army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara, on the afternoon of July 30, 2011, surprising the six soldiers from the Rajput and Kumaon regiments. The 19 Rajput Battalion was to be replaced by 20 Kumaon around the time the Pakistani Border Action Team (BAT) struck. The attacking team took back the heads of Havildar Jaipal Singh Adhikari and Lance Naik Devender Singh of 20 Kumaon. A soldier of the 19 Rajput, who reported the attack, died later in a hospital.
> 
> *Reconnaisance mission*
> 
> In revenge, the Indian Army planned Operation Ginger, which would turn out to be one of the deadliest cross-border raids carried out by the Indian Army in recent memory.
> 
> To carry out the revenge attack at least seven reconnaissance — physical and air surveillance mounted on UAV — missions were carried out to identify potential targets.
> 
> 
> 
> Consequently, three Pakistani army posts were determined to be vulnerable: Police Chowki, a Pakistani army post near Jor, Hifazat and Lashdat lodging point. The mission was to spring an ambush on Police Chowki to inflict maximum casualty.
> 
> According to a secret report of the raid, accessed by this newspaper, different teams for ambush, demolition, surgical strike and surveillance were constituted following the Gugaldhar beheadings.
> 
> A few days after the beheading, Indian Army discovered a video clip from a Pakistani militant who was killed in an encounter while crossing into Kashmir, showing Pakistanis standing around the severed heads of Adhikari and Singh displayed on raised platform. _The Hindu_ has a copy of the video.
> 
> After repeated recce over two months, the Army launched Operation Ginger on Tuesday, August 30. According to one of those involved in the operation, “We decided on Tuesday because in the past, including in Kargil war (of 1999) we always tasted victory on this day. We deliberately planned the operation just a day before the Eid as it was the time when Pakistanis least expected a retaliation,” he said.
> 
> For the strike, about 25 soldiers, mainly Para Commandos, reached their launch-pad at 3 a.m. on August 29 and hid there until 10 p.m. They then crossed over the Line of Control to reach close to Police Chowki. By 4 a.m. on August 30, the planned day of the attack, the ambush team was deep within the enemy territory waiting to strike.
> 
> Over the next hour, claymore mines were placed around the area and the commandos took positions for the ambush, waiting for clearance through secure communication route. At 7 a.m. on August 30, the troops saw four Pakistani soldiers, led by a Junior Commissioned Officer, walking towards the ambush site. They waited till the Pakistanis reached the site then detonated the mines. In the explosions all four were grieviously injured. Then the raiding commandoes lobbed grenades and fired at them.
> 
> One of the Pakistani soldiers fell into a stream that ran below. Indian soldiers rushed to chop off the heads of the other three dead soldiers. They also took away their rank insignias, weapons and other personal items. The commandos then planted pressure IED’s beneath one of the bodies, primed to explode when anyone attempted to lift the body.
> 
> Hearing the explosions, two Pakistani soldiers rushed from the post but were killed by a second Indian team waiting near the ambush site. Two other Pakistani army men tried to trap the second team but a third team covering them from behind eliminated the two, says an official report.
> 
> While the Indian soldiers were retreating, another group of Pakistani soldiers were spotted moving from Police Chowki towards the ambush site. Soon they heard loud explosions, indicating the triggering of the IEDs planted under the body, according to the report. According to assessment, at least two to three more Pakistani soldiers were killed in that blast.
> 
> The operation had lasted 45 minutes, and the Indian team left the area by 7.45 a.m. to head back across the LoC. The first team reached an Indian army post at 12 noon and the last party by 2.30 p.m.. They had been inside enemy territory for about 48 hours, including for reconnaissance. At least eight Pakistani troops had been killed and another two or three more Pakistani soldiers may have been fatally injured in the action. Three Pakistani heads — of Subedar Parvez, Havildar Aftab and Naik Imran — three AK 47 rifles and other weapons were among the trophies carried back by the Indian soldiers.
> 
> *No traces*
> 
> 
> “But this was not without the heart pounding moments. We got a message on our secure line that one of our jawans accidentally fell on a mine and blew his finger while exfiltrating. Till the time you have seen the person, it was difficult to say what exactly could have happened. He came back safely with his buddies,” said the source.
> 
> The severed heads were photographed, and buried on the instructions of senior officers. Two days later, one of the senior most Generals in the command turned up and asked the team about the heads. “When he came to know that we had buried them, he was furious and asked us to dig up the heads, burn them and throw the ashes into the Kishenganga, so that no DNA traces are left behind. We did so,” said the source
> http://m.thehindu.com/news/national...across-the-line-of-control/article9202758.ece
> ure if this is already posted.
> @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @Ankit Kumar 002 @Levina @MilSpec @Joe Shearer @hellfire @jbgt90 @Water Car Engineer @mkb95



This whole drama by hindu to release the details of Operation ginger now is for 2 things

1) To lend the credibility to the congress claim of surgical strike happened during 2011
2) To deny any political mileage for Namo for the actual surgical strike

But listen to what the army chief (during UPA) himself has to say about the so called surgical strike done during 2011





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1632560090103037










So in the end the congress has never failed to amaze me on the extent they will go to defame Modi even at the cost of national security and for us Indians we tolerated this Pathetic national party for the past 60 years 

*Ontopic : PA's machoism should be the real target they always got away bcoz IA never published on how they retaliated to their strikes by doing that now we have done the first course correction in our Pakistan policy*

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## Hellfire

@noksss 
@litefire
The attack took place, confirmed. I had posted about it a number of times earlier. 

A surgical strike is any strike specifically targetting a designated target. It may be by land/air/sea, manually or with stand off PGMs.

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## mkb95



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## noksss

hellfire said:


> @noksss
> @litefire
> The attack took place, confirmed. I had posted about it a number of times earlier.
> 
> A surgical strike is any strike specifically targetting a designated target. It may be by land/air/sea, manually or with stand off PGMs.



There is no denying the fact that the surgical strike took place I am just highlighting the politics played by Chuthiyagress in this matter. Can you guide me to your earlier post on this topic or just confirm on the casualties reported in the article

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## Unknowncommando

saumyasupratik said:


> Looks like a Aimpoint Comp M4 than the OFB RDS, and thanks never knew the MARCOS use the AR M1F41.


Yes even didn't know about This Bulgarian weapon is in service with Marcos. I have seen it with Army (in limited nos)And in huge no with paramilitary and police. We are producing it locally right ?
And i just asked my Friend in QRT. He said few sights are bought from ourside and few are from OFB. OFB sight looks almost copy of Airports comp but the picture on OFB sight shows that the fitting components are used for rifles having no rails.

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## Hellfire

noksss said:


> There is no denying the fact that the surgical strike took place I am just highlighting the politics played by Chuthiyagress in this matter. Can you guide me to your earlier post on this topic or just confirm on the casualties reported in the article




Cas was 22 all included. Posted long back, will have to trace it out. Been year plus

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## nair

noksss said:


> There is no denying the fact that the surgical strike took place I am just highlighting the politics played by Chuthiyagress in this matter. Can you guide me to your earlier post on this topic or just confirm on the casualties reported in the article



It is all about politics even in this case as well (let us keep armed forces out of this)..... These matters are not micro managed by delhi as you assume it to be.... Yes of late Delhi has been actively involved in small matters, otherwise these issues are handled at local level by local commanders........ And if sources are to be believed then there are more than what has been published.....

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## Grevion

noksss said:


> This whole drama by hindu to release the details of Operation ginger now is for 2 things
> 
> 1) To lend the credibility to the congress claim of surgical strike happened during 2011
> 2) To deny any political mileage for Namo for the actual surgical strike
> 
> But listen to what the army chief (during UPA) himself has to say about the so called surgical strike done during 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1632560090103037
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in the end the congress has never failed to amaze me on the extent they will go to defame Modi even at the cost of national security and for us Indians we tolerated this Pathetic national party for the past 60 years
> 
> *Ontopic : PA's machoism should be the real target they always got away bcoz IA never published on how they retaliated to their strikes by doing that now we have done the first course correction in our Pakistan policy*


So the congress government wasn't involved? That's hard to understand, such cross border raids are prepared for after getting the initial nod from the government.


hellfire said:


> @noksss
> @litefire
> The attack took place, confirmed. I had posted about it a number of times earlier.
> 
> A surgical strike is any strike specifically targetting a designated target. It may be by land/air/sea, manually or with stand off PGMs.


It must have been one of the most deadliest strikes in the history of the IA.
Can you confirm that if the UPA govt at that time was informed of the strikes or not.


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## noksss

nair said:


> It is all about politics even in this case as well (let us keep armed forces out of this)..... These matters are not micro managed by delhi as you assume it to be.... Yes of late Delhi has been actively involved in small matters, otherwise these issues are handled at local level by local commanders........ And if sources are to be believed then there are more than what has been published.....



How do you say there is politics in the current Surgical Strike ? When Modi himself warned the ministers against chest-thumping and the government let the Army/MEA hold the press meet instead of a minister . Also Modi is not someone who gives a knee-jerk reaction the reason is despite projecting himself as a tough leader he let the ISI man inside Phatankot base for investigation you really require spine to do that . Also he too like all other PM's tried his level best for peace despite his machoism before the election but with URI attack Pakistan crossed the red-line and he walked the talk now my question is where do you see politics in all this ?

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## Hellfire

litefire said:


> So the congress government wasn't involved? That's hard to understand, such cross border raids are prepared for after getting the initial nod from the government.
> 
> It must have been one of the most deadliest strikes in the history of the IA.
> Can you confirm that if the UPA govt at that time was informed of the strikes or not.




These acts are undertaken by Army at Command level. The army commander takes the final decision. Corps commander is responsible and the plans are percolated down to the executing unit. Thence, it is the tactical commander's plan.

Since this time the strike was across multiple fronts at the same was conducted simultaneously, the same was undertaken keeping GoI on board.

No government can absolve itself of responsibility. UPA was aware in form of NSA and RM being aware of something being done, exact details are never told.



noksss said:


> How do you say there is politics in the current Surgical Strike ? When Modi himself warned the ministers against chest-thumping and the government let the Army/MEA hold the press meet instead of a minister . Also Modi is not someone who gives a knee-jerk reaction the reason is despite projecting himself as a tough leader he let the ISI man inside Phatankot base for investigation you really require spine to do that . Also he too like all other PM's tried his level best for peace despite his machoism before the election but with URI attack Pakistan crossed the red-line and he walked the talk now my question is where do you see politics in all this ?




The politics occurred when BJP cadre put up poster. RM should ot have commented on them in Agra. Should have only spoken when asked specifically. That is the only point against BJP.

You mean to say Modi can not control BJP?

He should keep quiet and let the opposition make a fool of themselves, they are doing a good job at that.

As for spine, it is a moot point, I can get the exact layout from any satellite. So big difference. Only political ownership was required.

You can not allow tactical actions on own initiative which can result in strategic ramifications.

However, the result is, body count is rising on either sides. That is sad and unfortunate. Things have not settled yet.

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## Grevion

noksss said:


> How do you say there is politics in the current Surgical Strike ? When Modi himself warned the ministers against chest-thumping and the government let the Army/MEA hold the press meet instead of a minister . Also Modi is not someone who gives a knee-jerk reaction the reason is despite projecting himself as a tough leader he let the ISI man inside Phatankot base for investigation you really require spine to do that . Also he too like all other PM's tried his level best for peace despite his machoism before the election but with URI attack Pakistan crossed the red-line and he walked the talk now my question is where do you see politics in all this ?


Lets not make it a political discussion. The Army on both occasions did a fantastic job specifically the para commandos.

Take this with a pinch of salt.
A friend of mine who actually lives in the army quarters (his father is in the army medics) gave me the so called inside information. He said that the strikes actually happened 2-3 days before the DGMO's announcement. According to him some para commandos were called in from Jodhpur army headquarters (yeah we have para commandos here) to be a part of the strike team.

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## nair

noksss said:


> How do you say there is politics in the current Surgical Strike ? When Modi himself warned the ministers against chest-thumping and the government let the Army/MEA hold the press meet instead of a minister



I am not doubting modi here..... But his party cadres..... How this is used to gain political mileage (Posters for example)..... I wanted to say few more things, but then this is not the platform especially considering the subject in hand....



noksss said:


> Also Modi is not someone who gives a knee-jerk reaction the reason is despite projecting himself as a tough leader he let the ISI man inside Phatankot base for investigation you really require spine to do that



Well i agree the attempt made by Modi, especially considering the effort he put in normalising the relations....Now you say it need spine to have an ISI man in pathankot..... But If it was UPA in power, the same guys would say spineless govt allowed an ISI man inside an airbase..... This is how indian politics is been played.... all parties are same, and BJP is not a saint one as you assumed them to be....... 


noksss said:


> Also he too like all other PM's tried his level best for peace despite his machoism before the election



I agree he has put lot of his energy on to this, just like MMS, and Vajpayee........ I guess he hasnt learnt his lesson from the failures of his predecessors...... Indo pak relationship was always 1 step forward 2 step back........ But i do not doubt the intent of our PM..... 




noksss said:


> URI attack Pakistan crossed the red-line and he walked the talk now my question is where do you see politics in all this ?

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## RangeHunter

litefire said:


> Lets not make it a political discussion. The Army on both occasions did a fantastic job specifically the para commandos.
> 
> Take this with a pinch of salt.
> A friend of mine who actually lives in the army quarters (his father is in the army medics) gave me the so called inside information. He said that the strikes actually happened 2-3 days before the DGMO's announcement. According to him some para commandos were called in from Jodhpur army headquarters (yeah we have para commandos here) to be a part of the strike team.


My father had gone to Jodhpur a week before the announcement on attachment to the ADV HQ there.
He was a part of something there, not quite sure what exactly, maybe about the insertion method.

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## noksss

litefire said:


> Lets not make it a political discussion. The Army on both occasions did a fantastic job specifically the para commandos.
> 
> Take this with a pinch of salt.
> A friend of mine who actually lives in the army quarters (his father is in the army medics) gave me the so called inside information. He said that the strikes actually happened 2-3 days before the DGMO's announcement. According to him some para commandos were called in from Jodhpur army headquarters (yeah we have para commandos here) to be a part of the strike team.



Fine lets not have a political discussion here share with us if you have any other info related to this strike


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SNIPER

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## noksss

*"We don't want any causalities this time. In the February encounter militants inflicted heavy causalities on the security forces when they tried to enter the building. This time we will not take any such risk," he added.*

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...re-shootout-still-on/articleshow/54803278.cms

Again the pampore operation is going on for more than 2 days as it was during the last time . In the February ops we lost 3 PARA SF operators which why the army is taking no chance now . But the PARA SF are trained to deal with such situations right? Should they not have learnt from the earlier ops which happened in the same building and fine tuned their doctrine to complete such ops without taking causalities ? Is this the right approach to not enter the building to avoid casualties ?

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## Brahmaputra Mail

noksss said:


> *"We don't want any causalities this time. In the February encounter militants inflicted heavy causalities on the security forces when they tried to enter the building. This time we will not take any such risk," he added.*
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...re-shootout-still-on/articleshow/54803278.cms
> 
> Again the pampore operation is going on for more than 2 days as it was during the last time . In the February ops we lost 3 PARA SF operators which why the army is taking no chance now . But the PARA SF are trained to deal with such situations right? Should they not have learnt from the earlier ops which happened in the same building and fine tuned their doctrine to complete such ops without taking causalities ? Is this the right approach to not enter the building to avoid casualties ?




Those 3 operators (including Capt. Pawan Kumar) lost their lives due to the pressure from higher-ups to end the operation hastily.



mkb95 said:


>



This might be from Umroi, Meghalaya.

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## Joe Shearer

Hindustani78 said:


> http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...-50000-more-men/article9200306.ece?ref=tpnews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Presently, the city police have 78,194 personnel*
> If the latest request by the Delhi Police is approved by the Ministry of Home Affairs, *the force’s strength will be enhanced by 54,195 personnel, taking the overall number to well over a lakh.*
> 
> In a letter sent to the MHA on September 30, the Delhi police have stated that the city needs *additional 54,195 policemen at different levels, from senior officers to constables, to ensure sufficient security.*
> 
> *Long-standing demand*
> 
> The letter has already been cleared by Lieutenant-Governor Najeeb Jung. Since the recommendation for the additional force was made by a committee which had a representative from the MHA as its member, senior officers are hopeful that the long-standing demand of the police for more men would be met this time round.
> 
> “In the past when similar requests were placed, the MHA recommended that the police should focus on technology rather than increasing manpower. But we need policemen to operate technology because there is no substitute to beat policing,” said a senior Delhi Police officer.
> 
> “Modernisation is a continuous process with projects like criminal dossier system, online applications, additional patrols, traffic units, cyber cell and women help desk among others. But even technology needs people to handle it,” the officer added. *Presently, the city police have 78,194 personnel and are at least 8,000 men short of their sanctioned strength of 86,653. The force comprises policemen deployed in VVIPs security, traffic police, special branch and many other units. Only 32,000 policemen are deployed at various police stations and investigation duties*.
> 
> *High-level committee*
> 
> Joint Commissioner of Police (Headquarters) Praveer Ranjan told _The Hindu_ that the high-level committee set up in June had submitted the report last month after which the letter was sent to the MHA through the L-G. As for the current status of the letter: it’s been cleared by the L-G but awaits final approval by MHA.
> 
> “The committee looked into several norms of recruitment and calculated the shortage in every unit, district and even at the level of police station and then came up with the final figure," said Mr. Ranjan, himself a member of the committee. The committee also comprised Joint Secretary (Union Territory) of the MHA and Special Commissioner of Police (New Delhi Range).
> 
> Mr. Ranjan added that the recruitment will be carried out in three phases in the next three financial years and the final revised strength would also factor in the retirements in these years and the promotions already announced. The final figure would, however, cross the one lakh mark, said Mr. Ranjan.



Utterly ridiculous and inflated figure. They don't need more than 25,000 to 30,000, all put together. This is empire building with a vengeance.


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## Hindustani78

Joe Shearer said:


> Utterly ridiculous and inflated figure. They don't need more than 25,000 to 30,000, all put together. This is empire building with a vengeance.



New Delhi is Capital city of Republic of India and its Union Territory , its having important Government buildings so the security is must and thats why security forces have to be increased.

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## Joe Shearer

noksss said:


> There is no denying the fact that the surgical strike took place I am just highlighting the politics played by Chuthiyagress in this matter. Can you guide me to your earlier post on this topic or just confirm on the casualties reported in the article



Don't be abusive. 

If you have a point to make, make it without foul language.



Hindustani78 said:


> New Delhi is Capital city of Republic of India and its Union Territory , its having important Government buildings so the security is must and thats why security forces have to be increased.



With the greatest respect for your counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism expertise, you might have noticed that most of the government buildings are clustered together. You might also have noticed that in the single largest strike on India, there was not a single government building involved, unless you count the railway station as a government building.


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## Rajeev_Anand

Dont hurry, these terrorist will be used against Pakistan and longer the wait more humililiation for Pakis. Plz dont loose any Indians for it.

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## mkb95

Operatives of 4 and 9 Para SF during Pompore encounter

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

mkb95 said:


> Operatives of 4 and 9 Para SF during Pompore encounter



Just came from a foreign business trip and the company wants a presentation..No rest!

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## mkb95

Para Troopers Conducting Tactical Water Jumps

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## Hindustani78

Joe Shearer said:


> With the greatest respect for your counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism expertise, you might have noticed that most of the government buildings are clustered together. You might also have noticed that in the single largest strike on India, there was not a single government building involved, unless you count the railway station as a government building.



Police forces is needed because new residential colonies are coming up in all the cities in Republic of India.


Just see in New Delhi 

The Union Cabinet under the Chairmanship of Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi has approved redevelopment of residential colonies at West Ansari Nagar and Ayur Vigyan Nagar Campuses of All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AllMS), New Delhi. National Buildings Construction Corporation Limited (NBCC) will undertake the exercise to replace the existing housing stock of 1,444 dwelling units of Type I to IV with Build Up Area (BUA) of approx. 0.87 lakh sqm with approx. 3,928 dwelling units of Type II to VI with BUA of approx. 4.02 lakh sqm. It will also create social infrastructure facilities of approx. 0.65 lakh sq.mtr. including Dharamshala and approx. 0.94 lakh sq.mtr. commercial BUA.


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## mkb95




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## Joe Shearer

Rajeev_Anand said:


> Dont hurry, these terrorist will be used against Pakistan and longer the wait more humililiation for Pakis. Plz dont loose any Indians for it.





Hindustani78 said:


> Police forces is needed because new residential colonies are coming up in all the cities in Republic of India.
> 
> 
> Just see in New Delhi
> 
> The Union Cabinet under the Chairmanship of Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi has approved redevelopment of residential colonies at West Ansari Nagar and Ayur Vigyan Nagar Campuses of All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AllMS), New Delhi. National Buildings Construction Corporation Limited (NBCC) will undertake the exercise to replace the existing housing stock of 1,444 dwelling units of Type I to IV with Build Up Area (BUA) of approx. 0.87 lakh sqm with approx. 3,928 dwelling units of Type II to VI with BUA of approx. 4.02 lakh sqm. It will also create social infrastructure facilities of approx. 0.65 lakh sq.mtr. including Dharamshala and approx. 0.94 lakh sq.mtr. commercial BUA.



Please make up your mind. If you want to focus attention on Delhi,do so, but let us not have spurious reasons. First government buildings were quoted, and now it is the residential complexes around government buildings. What next?

It is still idiotic to think that increasing the force to those stupid numbers will achieve anything.


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## Hindustani78

Joe Shearer said:


> Please make up your mind. If you want to focus attention on Delhi,do so, but let us not have spurious reasons. First government buildings were quoted, and now it is the residential complexes around government buildings. What next?
> 
> It is still idiotic to think that increasing the force to those stupid numbers will achieve anything.




I am giving him the answer to explain the need for more police in Delhi .


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## saumyasupratik

*Pampore encounter.



*
Galil SAR with quad rail and M4 visible.
*













*

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## saumyasupratik

*Para SF Galil SARs.*




Indian army commandos of the Parachute Regiment perform for the media at a function in Jammu, Thursday 22 January 2004. - Alamy description for the photo.

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## Unknowncommando

Operation Triveni
Garud Commandos

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## Rajeev_Anand

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Just came from a foreign business trip and the company wants a presentation..No rest!


Great !!!! you nailed it in just one sentence

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## cerberus

OP Pampore Para SF

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## mkb95

special said:


> it is just a reporter who knows nothing. after 26/11 there are many reports about marcos and there is a documentary "line of duty" about marcos. the reporter said in front of a macos that their dropout rate is 80%. in rajeev ranjan's program he said dropout is 90%. shiv aroor in his blog wrote about marcos and in it he also say dropout is 90%.
> in the book indian special forces the author gets many data from internet mainly from wiki( see the books's reference)


ignore this post of mine.just quoting to go back several pages at once.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

cerberus said:


> OP Pampore Para SF



BADASS!!

These are the guys!(29th raid)

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF 
(OLD PIC)




Desert SCORPIONS (Credits Para Cdo page)

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDOS
From Pathankot Air force base

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Hindustani78

CISF may handle security of all airports

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Hindustani78 said:


> CISF may handle security of all airports



I think CISF troops are better trained than any other Paramilitary unit.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I think CISF troops are better trained than any other Paramilitary unit.


CRPF's CoBRA and RAF are well trained for their respective roles.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hindustani78 said:


> CISF may handle security of all airports



Fake weapon or a bad photoshop... looking at the AK,knife and elbow and knee pads...


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## cerberus

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Fake weapon or a bad photoshop... looking at the AK,knife and elbow and knee pads...


May be but weapons are typically CISF QRT Teams use


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## Unknowncommando

Hindustani78 said:


> CISF may handle security of all airports







This seems like the dummy AK for training and drill purpose. We are using this realistic dummies than the wooden blocks we used to train with.Knife is also a dummy one.
But the pistol Holster is real and pads also.

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commando , Army Jawans And Sri Lankan Soldiers. May be few from Bangladesh also.

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## bipi@342

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I think CISF troops are better trained than any other Paramilitary unit.


ITBP commando force is one of best in paramilitary,thats why they are deployed in Afghanistan and in Mumbai jail when Kasab was there.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG Mumbai

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

bipi@342 said:


> ITBP commando force is one of best in paramilitary,thats why they are deployed in Afghanistan and in Mumbai jail when Kasab was there.



I am really impressed by Commando wing of CISF.In my interactions with CISF personnel i have always found them to be more educated and informed than other para military forces.

ITBP is equally capable and is also giving protection to J&K CM.

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## GuardianRED

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I am really impressed by Commando wing of CISF.In my interactions with CISF personnel i have always found them to be more educated and informed than other para military forces.
> 
> ITBP is equally capable and is also giving protection to J&K CM.



Best Demos seen, very informative!

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## Unknowncommando

Cpt. Pawan Kumar

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 343873
> 
> NSG Mumbai


Interesting, looks to be a drill on an oil rig in the Arabian Sea. Usually it is the IN's MARCOs who train for such ops but now the NSG has begun too also. Good to see.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Interesting, looks to be a drill on an oil rig in the Arabian Sea. Usually it is the IN's MARCOs who train for such ops but now the NSG has begun too also. Good to see.


Yes Mumbai High oil rig

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## Unknowncommando

Captain Pawan Kumar

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## Hindustani78



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members of the Special Protection Group (SPG) spotted during the BRICS summit in Goa:

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## mkb95



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## Bluewind

Water Car Engineer said:


>


The jackets/pants these gentlemen are wearing, are these standard issue? Or are these brought by the operators themselves from the market?(some operators in the pic are wearing quite identical pairs) Could please someone shed some light on these kind of jackets used by Indian SF. Also I see different kinds of gloves worn by different operators, why so? And why doesn't Indian SF go for balaclavas (present scarves create a lot of problems as they tend to slip down from the nose, look at the operator adjusting his) since they are more compact, easy to deploy and also gives kind of a killer look to the operators. Thanks in advance.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Bluewind said:


> The jackets/pants these gentlemen are wearing, are these standard issue? Or are these brought by the operators themselves from the market?(some operators in the pic are wearing quite identical pairs) Could please someone shed some light on these kind of jackets used by Indian SF. Also I see different kinds of gloves worn by different operators, why so? And why doesn't Indian SF go for balaclavas (present scarves create a lot of problems as they tend to slip down from the nose, look at the operator adjusting his) since they are more compact, easy to deploy and also gives kind of a killer look to the operators. Thanks in advance.


They are all bought by the operators themselves.

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## mkb95

para

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## mkb95




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## RepublicOk

I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack. 

NSG was used to clear up the mess after the Garuds failed to foil the infiltration attempt and didn't take the lead in the main operation. 
Western airbases were in high alert leading up to the Pathankot attack and Garuds were ineffective. 
Some blame the sarkari babus in Delhi for messing up the follow up operation( picking NSG and lack of faith in other special units aka Garud in this case ) and some say it was in residential area of airbase so NSG was used, but the fact remains that there was advanced intelligence and base should have been well protected and Garuds on standby in such events. 

Some analysts argue that Garuds based in Pathankot would have a better idea of the base layout and would have been the most effective to take on the Pathankot attackers but yet government didn't give them the lead. 

Some people are really annoyed at this. There are chatters in defence circles about this event.

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## cerberus

RepublicOk said:


> I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack.


Reputation Is Zero Relevance In Actual combat You cannot Judge Performance Of Operatives on Single failure 

If that's the case SAS has compromised by bunch of Farmers in Libya Which Acquired Global Attention

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## RepublicOk

cerberus said:


> Reputation Is Zero Relevance In Actual combat You cannot Judge Performance Of Operatives on Single failure
> 
> If that's the case SAS has compromised by bunch of Farmers in Libya Which Acquired Global Attention


I agree. 
And I am not personally judging the Garuds. 
I am just highlighting the the discussions going on in some circles about the handling of the Pathankot operation.


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## mkb95

cerberus said:


> Reputation Is Zero Relevance In Actual combat You cannot Judge Performance Of Operatives on Single failure


since when did pathankot became a failure?
time is not a deciding factor.not by a big margin.
our every asset was secured and no civilian life was lost.
that success in every book.

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## cerberus

mkb95 said:


> since when did pathankot became a failure?
> time is not a deciding factor.not by a big margin.
> our every asset was secured and no civilian life was lost.
> that success in every book.


Read My Post again Mate 
I m only Answering A Particular Perspective



RepublicOk said:


> I agree.
> And I am not personally judging the Garuds.
> I am just highlighting the the discussions going on in some circles about the handling of the Pathankot operation.


It Only Happens In Media Circles Nowadays.

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## Avyator

mkb95 said:


> since when did pathankot became a failure?
> time is not a deciding factor.not by a big margin.
> our every asset was secured and no civilian life was lost.
> that success in every book.



Mehh, Pathankot may or may not have been a failure but it definitely was not a success to be proud of. They had advanced information and the base was still infiltrated, quite a few casualties were sustained, and it took multiple days to flush everyone out. The whole operation gave off the air of sloppy handling and incompetence.


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## Abingdonboy

RepublicOk said:


> I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack.
> 
> NSG was used to clear up the mess after the Garuds failed to foil the infiltration attempt and didn't take the lead in the main operation.
> Western airbases were in high alert leading up to the Pathankot attack and Garuds were ineffective.
> Some blame the sarkari babus in Delhi for messing up the follow up operation( picking NSG and lack of faith in other special units aka Garud in this case ) and some say it was in residential area of airbase so NSG was used, but the fact remains that there was advanced intelligence and base should have been well protected and Garuds on standby in such events.
> 
> Some analysts argue that Garuds based in Pathankot would have a better idea of the base layout and would have been the most effective to take on the Pathankot attackers but yet government didn't give them the lead.
> 
> Some people are really annoyed at this. There are chatters in defence circles about this event.


1) It has been explained to death why the NSG was called in; the risk to the 1000s of families in the residential portions of the base was signifcant and thus India's premier hostage rescue force was called in.
2) The decsion to deploy the NSG was a joint one (made in cordination with the IA and IAF)
3) The Garuds were the FIRST unit to engage and most importantly CORNER the terrorists. The feirce resistence they gave ensured that ALL civilians and strategic assets were safeguarded. They completed their breif to the letter, where is the failure in that?
4) All operational objectives were acheived by the NSG/IAF; no loss of civilian life, no loss of strategic assets, all terrorists killed.
5) The remark about having more Garuds to protect Pathankot indicates that you do not understand how the Garuds work or what they are. The Garuds are NOT base security, they simply protect certain strategic installations but their primary roles are CSAR, FAC and other SOF duties. Pathankot had seen a Garud team brought in in the wake of general threats to military assets in that area BUT the base is vast and there were other assets (like the nearby IA base) that were also likely targets. As mentioned above, the Garuds did their job- they protected the base and its assets.


It is simply illogical to make the statements you have and I seriosuly doubt anyone in the defence community that actually knows how the situation unfolded has any issues with how they were handled, the op was a total success.



Avyator said:


> Mehh, Pathankot may or may not have been a failure but it definitely was not a success to be proud of. They had advanced information and the base was still infiltrated, quite a few casualties were sustained, and it took multiple days to flush everyone out. The whole operation gave off the air of sloppy handling and incompetence.


By any measure the operation was a complete success, if one wants to bring in arbitrary metrics (such as duration or kill ratios) to satisfy their own drive to term any such thing as a failure then so be it.

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## Avyator

Abingdonboy said:


> 1) It has been explained to death why the NSG was called in; the risk to the 1000s of families in the residential portions of the base was signifcant and thus India's premier hostage rescue force was called in.
> 2) The decsion to deploy the NSG was a joint one (made in cordination with the IA and IAF)
> 3) The Garuds were the FIRST unit to engage and most importantly CORNER the terrorists. The feirce resistence they gave ensured that ALL civilians and strategic assets were safeguarded. They completed their breif to the letter, where is the failure in that?
> 4) All operational objectives were acheived by the NSG/IAF; no loss of civilian life, no loss of strategic assets, all terrorists killed.
> 5) The remark about having more Garuds to protect Pathankot indicates that you do not understand how the Garuds work or what they are. The Garuds are NOT base security, they simply protect certain strategic installations but their primary roles are CSAR, FAC and other SOF duties. Pathankot had seen a Garud team brought in in the wake of general threats to military assets in that area BUT the base is vast and there were other assets (like the nearby IA base) that were also likely targets. As mentioned above, the Garuds did their job- they protected the base and its assets.
> 
> 
> It is simply illogical to make the statements you have and I seriosuly doubt anyone in the defence community that actually knows how the situation unfolded has any issues with how they were handled, the op was a total success.
> 
> 
> By any measure the operation was a complete success, if one wants to bring in arbitrary metrics (such as duration or kill ratios) to satisfy their own drive to term any such thing as a failure then so be it.




You seriously think it was a massive 100% success to be proud about? I personally found it to be embarrassing that things went that far after we had information about it before the fact. But not only did we fail to prevent it, by most accounts it was handled quite sloppily. 

But this is a typical problem with a lot of Indians, any sort of self criticism gets quickly shut down, and as we saw, when you don't do enough hard introspection after something, you get repeats.


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## mkb95

NSG Commandos from Mumbai Regional Hub drill with Force One unit

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## RepublicOk

Abingdonboy said:


> 1) It has been explained to death why the NSG was called in; the risk to the 1000s of families in the residential portions of the base was signifcant and thus India's premier hostage rescue force was called in.
> 2) The decsion to deploy the NSG was a joint one (made in cordination with the IA and IAF)
> 3) The Garuds were the FIRST unit to engage and most importantly CORNER the terrorists. The feirce resistence they gave ensured that ALL civilians and strategic assets were safeguarded. They completed their breif to the letter, where is the failure in that?
> 4) All operational objectives were acheived by the NSG/IAF; no loss of civilian life, no loss of strategic assets, all terrorists killed.
> 5) The remark about having more Garuds to protect Pathankot indicates that you do not understand how the Garuds work or what they are. The Garuds are NOT base security, they simply protect certain strategic installations but their primary roles are CSAR, FAC and other SOF duties. Pathankot had seen a Garud team brought in in the wake of general threats to military assets in that area BUT the base is vast and there were other assets (like the nearby IA base) that were also likely targets. As mentioned above, the Garuds did their job- they protected the base and its assets.
> 
> 
> It is simply illogical to make the statements you have and I seriosuly doubt anyone in the defence community that actually knows how the situation unfolded has any issues with how they were handled, the op was a total success.
> 
> 
> By any measure the operation was a complete success, if one wants to bring in arbitrary metrics (such as duration or kill ratios) to satisfy their own drive to term any such thing as a failure then so be it.


Hmm. Your post clarifies alot of the hot air around the handling of the Pathankot operation.

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## mkb95

9 para

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## damiendehorn

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 343847
> 
> Garud Commando , Army Jawans And Sri Lankan Soldiers. May be few from Bangladesh also.



Nope no Bangladeshis......


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## mkb95



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

RepublicOk said:


> I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack.
> 
> NSG was used to clear up the mess after the Garuds failed to foil the infiltration attempt and didn't take the lead in the main operation.
> Western airbases were in high alert leading up to the Pathankot attack and Garuds were ineffective.
> Some blame the sarkari babus in Delhi for messing up the follow up operation( picking NSG and lack of faith in other special units aka Garud in this case ) and some say it was in residential area of airbase so NSG was used, but the fact remains that there was advanced intelligence and base should have been well protected and Garuds on standby in such events.
> 
> Some analysts argue that Garuds based in Pathankot would have a better idea of the base layout and would have been the most effective to take on the Pathankot attackers but yet government didn't give them the lead.
> 
> Some people are really annoyed at this. There are chatters in defence circles about this event.



My take:-

Pathankot operation a success or failure?Depends on what the question is..

If the question is was the Air base saved?..Yes and no causalities of family members unlike Kaluchak attack.

If the question is about the performance of Garud?..Total failure in my eyes.

SF is not raised or trained to go in a 1 on 1 firefight with terrorists and to be pinned down.

The question of Garud leading the operation is a joke or what?

Firstly, after being pinned down how can they be trusted to lead.

Secondly,Do you think Garud is capable of leading NSG???I am sorry i dont think so..not in experience..not in technique.

The only thing which is questionable is why none of the 5 or 6 PARA SF Units in 500 km arc were not called.

I dont believe this bs that Para SF is not as capable of hostage rescue because guess what who has done more hostage recue ops in the valley..The last time the NSG was in the valley for hostage rescue was in mid 90s.

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## mkb95



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## Avyator

mkb95 said:


>




Badass.


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## rockstarIN

@Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR 

What I understand about the Pathakot that, there were only 6-12 Garuds at Pathankot, not possible to search operations at that vast area but to defends the key assets which they did successfully.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstarIN said:


> @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> What I understand about the Pathakot that, there were only 6-12 Garuds at Pathankot, not possible to search operations at that vast area but to defends the key assets which they did successfully.


Such a big and important Airbase with only 12 Garuds?


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## Abingdonboy

rockstarIN said:


> @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> What I understand about the Pathakot that, there were only 6-12 Garuds at Pathankot, not possible to search operations at that vast area but to defends the key assets which they did successfully.


AFAIK there were a few more operators than that but yes, it was certainly a rather small contingent and clearly the NSG outnumbered the Garuds many fold (NSG's main CT tasf force consists of around 200 operators, cmmanders and support staff).


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## rockstarIN

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Such a big and important Airbase with only 12 Garuds?



Thats what I heard. After this incident, IAF decided to increase the number of Garuds comprising about 700 personnel. Its current numbers are around 1000+

It would have been much different if it is war time.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstarIN said:


> Thats what I heard. After this incident, IAF decided to increase the number of Garuds comprising about 700 personnel. Its current numbers are around 1000+
> 
> It would have been much different if it is war time.


The QRT/QRF should have atleast 30-60 people.

Then the reserve should be the same.

People at the gates and monitoring parameters should be in hundreds.

Its shocking because i have seen many Airbases around the country from Delhi to Bangalore and all around and i always felt they took their security seriously.Pathankot should have been given more security seeing it proximity to the IB.

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## Hellfire

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> The QRT/QRF should have atleast 30-60 people.
> 
> Then the reserve should be the same.
> 
> People at the gates and monitoring parameters should be in hundreds.
> 
> Its shocking because i have seen many Airbases around the country from Delhi to Bangalore and all around and i always felt they took their security seriously.Pathankot should have been given more security seeing it proximity to the IB.




If an adversary is prepared to die, not much can be done.

Having said that, the role of a MES personnel was suspect as per what reports emerged after the attack.


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## Eminent Mainstream Media

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Such a big and important Airbase with only 12 Garuds?



There is nothing strange in that- Garuds are supposed to be SOGs they were not made to do Guard duties or SWAT duties- 

I hope our SFs and SOGs are pulled out of SWAT duties- unless It is for training the young probies- they can do far better role consulting, directing and training local forces in those duties- as an consultant or supervisors to commanding officers- Their role is much more than these duties- We have already lost two very young and promising officers to this idiocy- 

And these forces operate in no more than a team of six- so in an operational deployment it is funny how media claims 150 commandos conducted operations on 29/9- While there were only teams of six para on each target- assisted by airborne-

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Eminent Mainstream Media said:


> There is nothing strange in that- Garuds are supposed to be SOGs they were not made to do Guard duties or SWAT duties-
> 
> I hope our SFs and SOGs are pulled out of SWAT duties- unless It is for training the young probies- they can do far better role consulting, directing and training local forces in those duties- as an consultant or supervisors to commanding officers- Their role is much more than these duties- We have already lost two very young and promising officers to this idiocy-
> 
> And these forces operate in no more than a team of six- so in an operational deployment it is funny how media claims 150 commandos conducted operations on 29/9- While there were only teams of six para on each target- assisted by airborne-


Thats true but still 12 Garuds means 2 teams.Where is the backup?

And there is a big gap in the skill of Garuds and DSC.

Anyway, i dont believe in this 12 Garud figure.Even Aero India had more Garuds roaming around in gypsy.

After the Awantipur attack they were raised to take care of their security.So, the main objective will always remain this followed by pilot rescue,destroying radars or pin pointing targets.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG




PARA SF




Marcos

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

How many Cornershots does the PARA SF/MARCOS/GARUDS/NSG have?

Coz i read the RR is getting some..and some rumors that Para SF is getting a special raid vehicle.(FAV,DPV,etc)


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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> marcos(?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy ,bro isn't that MKU's new Boltfree helmets??



Couldn't tell you what helmet that was bro but that isn't MARCOs, that is a member of INS Kolkata's security team.

Must have missed this tag at the time.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

Paratrooper




SPG

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## Hindustani78

Goa

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## Unknowncommando

Tavors

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## Unknowncommando

Desert Scorpions




NSG

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO

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## mkb95

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 348756
> 
> NSG COMMANDO


why does nsg use this rifle for dmr role?
when there are better more dedicated dmr rifles out there.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## me_itsme

@waz @Oscar Can you please delete all the off topic posts here?

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## SQ8

This thread is about Indian SoF!
Please keep all other topics and discussions out of it

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## Unknowncommando

NSG drill on Coast Guard Hovercrafts







MARCOS

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> why does nsg use this rifle for dmr role?
> when there are better more dedicated dmr rifles out there.


They have been using the SIG-XX series of rifles in the DMR for decades and are comfortable with the system, post-26/11 they expanded the use of the SIG series within the assualt teams (1-2 operators with an AR per assualt team;"HIT"). If it isn't broken, why fix it? 

Going for an entirely new rifle now would probably offer only very marginal upgrades for a heavy outlay in capital and training resources.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 349804
> View attachment 349805
> View attachment 349806
> View attachment 349807
> View attachment 349808
> 
> NSG drill on Coast Guard Hovercrafts


Truly exceptional work by the NSG to be drilling and conducting security audits in every corner of India in every conceivable enviroment post-26/11 from schools/universities to temples to hospitals to hotels to oil rigs and beyond. Every single major and non-major site/attraction in India has been digitally mapped by their security audit teams and are available in a central main frame for any team to use god forbid they need to. 

Unsung heroes.

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## hkdas

21 para SF




thanks to @Unknowncommando

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## Hindustani78

Rapid Action Force and police personnel taking out amarch in Chitradurga on Wednesday.


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## me_itsme

Hindustani78 said:


> Rapid Action Force and police personnel taking out amarch in Chitradurga on Wednesday.



How is this related to this thread?


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## Hindustani78

me_itsme said:


> How is this related to this thread?



Rapid Action Force can be deployed on the front when the situation arises.


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## me_itsme

Hindustani78 said:


> Rapid Action Force can be deployed on the front when the situation arises.


But they are not special forces, they are paramilitary and more like riot police, I think you should post it in the emergency services thread.

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## bloo

Hindustani78 said:


> Rapid Action Force and police personnel taking out amarch in Chitradurga on Wednesday.


 
Post on emergency services thread, this is a dedicated Indian special forces thread.

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## hkdas



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## mkb95

9 para

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## Jamwal's



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## mkb95

Jamwal's said:


> View attachment 351651


which unit?


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## Jamwal's

mkb95 said:


> which unit?


Para SF

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## Jamwal's

Para SF gymnasium (Vyayamshala)







_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Konkurs Belong to the Dogras now being placed on few LOC posts to target hardened bunkers with precision and devastating effect.

I guess L 70 and ZU 23 is getting obsolete even for ground suppression

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> Para SF gymnasium (Vyayamshala)
> 
> View attachment 351819
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> Konkurs Belong to the Dogras now being placed on few LOC posts to target hardened bunkers with precision and devastating effect.
> 
> I guess L 70 and ZU 23 is getting obsolete even for ground suppression
> 
> 
> View attachment 351821


Nice.I believe SF operators should get extra money in their salary for diet.

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## Jamwal's

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Nice.I believe SF operators should get extra money in their salary for diet.


The basic allowance is already more than regulars i guess the Btn doctors should also be train as Dietitians since their body needs lean muscle mass because of their work profile

Their NCO Mess already serves Brown Rice instead of white apart from almost unlimited Mutton, eggs and Milk. Officers mess is even better.


Para Sf

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## Jamwal's

https://defence.pk/threads/fire-assault-video-from-loc.460966/#post-8909863

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> The basic allowance is already more than regulars i guess the Btn doctors should also be train as Dietitians since their body needs lean muscle mass because of their work profile
> 
> Their NCO Mess already serves Brown Rice instead of white apart from almost unlimited Mutton, eggs and Milk. Officers mess is even better.
> 
> 
> Para Sf
> 
> View attachment 351851


Thats good to know brother.

I am into fitness myself and i am impressed by the physique these guys have coz it suits their job profile.

Bulky guys are not fit for SF.As a matter of fact i am quite bulky and i am not too good with cardio.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF













NSG










Desert SCORPIONS along with Kyrgyzstan SF

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commando

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## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> Uzbek SF


They look Kyrgyz Airborne from ex Khanjar held earlier this year

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## Unknowncommando

Jamwal's said:


> They look Kyrgyz Airborne from ex Khanjar held earlier this year
> 
> View attachment 351988
> View attachment 351989
> View attachment 351990


Ohh yes i made a mistake
I got totally confused. Thanks mate.





NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA Commando

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

From the war front on LOC.

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## Indian_gorkha

Unknowncommando said:


> Ohh yes i made a mistake
> I got totally confused. Thanks mate.
> View attachment 352082
> 
> NSG


Are these Sigs used in DMR role or for CQB too?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

GAYA nahi Baba GAYAA!!!









RIP to the Pakistani brave men who fell in the line of duty.

credit - @Jamwal's for the video. Found this in another forum.

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## Unknowncommando

Indian_gorkha said:


> Are these Sigs used in DMR role or for CQB too?


Both roles Bro.
As far as i know in CQB team's last man carries SIGs for covering outside area of room.










CQB










DMR role

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## Unknowncommando

21 PARA SF

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## Jamwal's

Barrett M 82 being inducted in BSF apart from SSG 69 


Nana Patekar visit in Jammu BSF

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## Jamwal's

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=779733405501392

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=779733405501392


This is GR right?

Pikiti tirsia kali..I am happy we are training our troops in this.PTK is lethal!

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## Jamwal's

Waving of White flag by Pak forces so that dead bodies could be recovered. The posts have be destroyed in fire assault. Indian fire has been stopped ......... For Now 

Notice the above structure being completely destroyed and the metal pops out.
















COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is GR right?
> 
> Pikiti tirsia kali..I am happy we are training our troops in this.PTK is lethal!


GR

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> Waving of White flag by Pak forces so that dead bodies could be recovered. The posts have be destroyed in fire assault. Indian fire has been stopped ......... For Now
> 
> Notice the above structure being completely destroyed and the metal pops out.
> 
> 
> View attachment 352641
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 352642
> 
> 
> 
> GR


Cant you see Nawazudding siddiqui and salman khan in the khan suit.

Fake..its a upcoming bollywood bunkerbuster oops i mean blockuster.

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## Jamwal's

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Cant you see Nawazudding siddiqui and salman khan in the khan suit.
> 
> Fake..its a upcoming bollywood bunkerbuster oops i mean blockuster.


This is same area where the video was recorded from our side minus the sentry post which is razed to the ground while the bodies buried in debris.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> This is same area where the video was recorded from our side minus the sentry post which is razed to the ground while bodies buried in debris.


This is also the post which came under Dogra-Mahar Ghatak team assault?


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## Jamwal's

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is also the post which came under Dogra-Mahar Ghatak team assault?


93 rd Infantry Brigade, so it has a mix of regt including Dogra.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> 93 rd Infantry Brigade, so it has a mix of regt including Dogra.


I was referring to 29th sept cross loc raid.


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## Jamwal's

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I was referring to 29th sept cross loc raid.


That's beyond classified to a guy like me. But from what i heard there were no Ghataks only Para SF divided in small fire teams.

I don't believe in some fanboy stories of Ghataks involved in the raid.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

These 2 are civilians local porters who are employed on both sides to carry heavy equipments.

This time they were called to clear the debris and carry the dead bodies but they were so scare to recover the bodies for hour that they had to put white flag.

This proves our domination over LOC.



How many times you see Indian BSF or Indian civilian put white flag to stop rangers firing in Jammu Border or Kashmir LOC ?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> That's beyond classified to a guy like me. But from what i heard there were no Ghataks only Para SF divided in small fire teams.
> 
> I don't believe in some fanboy stories of Ghataks involved in the raid.
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR
> 
> These 2 are civilians local porters who are employed on both sides to carry heavy equipments.
> 
> This time they were called to clear the debris and carry the dead bodies but they were so scare to recover the bodies for hour that they had to put white flag.
> 
> This proves our domination over LOC.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times you see Indian BSF or Indian civilian put white flag to stop rangers firing in Jammu Border or Kashmir LOC ?



No disrespect to Pak Army but the side which dominates doesn't ever raise the white flag.The claim of 11 Indian kills is bullshit.

Thanks a lot for the info.

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## Jamwal's

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No disrespect to Pak Army but the side which dominates doesn't ever raise the white flag.The claim of 11 Indian kills is bullshit.
> 
> Thanks a lot for the info.


Famous Pak propaganda to assuage the public.


And there is no 7 casualties. Fire assault destroyed 4 posts and each post have at least a section or Platoon size strength. So you can figure the real casualties.

Rumor is that it could be cross border raid from the dreaded "Vengeance Brigade" as called by Las Angeles time way back in 90. Could be Pir Panjal Militia from our side.


__________________________________________________________________________

Here is the article from *LA times from 1998

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/may/27/news/mn-53885/2
________________________________________________________________________


*
Kashmir Border Duels, Rhetoric Heat Up
Pakistan: Villagers fear war as India rattles nuclear saber.


May 27, 1998|DEXTER FILKINS | TIMES STAFF WRITER


*The Indian soldiers are invisible* except for the search beams that leap from the trees at night. Some of the lights are a mere 500 yards from the center of Bandala Seri, easily within range of a modern rifle or machine gun.

Under Fire, Pakistanis Just Huddle Together

Three days ago, Pakistani villagers said, they had to run for their lives when Indian troops opened fire. When the Indians fire into the village at night, the town folk say, residents gather in one hut and huddle together until it ends.

Early Tuesday, the thunder of artillery fire and the crackle of machine guns 30 miles away were clearly audible in Bandala Seri.

Pakistani officials say they do their best to defend villagers but don't have nearly the troops that India does.

Although a few families have fled the border, most have chosen to stay put. "We are Muslims, and we are not afraid of death," said Fazal Karim, who runs a pharmacy in the village.








Last month, in a widely reported incident, 22 villagers were massacred in Bandala Seri by gunmen believed to be from India. The villagers say the gang of a dozen men, all dressed in black, struck in the middle of the night and dropped leaflets to mark the attack.

"Vengeance Brigade," one leaflet said.

"Evil deeds bear evil fruit," said another.

"Ten eyes for one eye, one jaw for a single tooth," said a third.

Blood still stains the walls of several huts.

Villagers Deny Links to Militant Groups

When the Pakistani government accused the Indian government of sponsoring the attack, New Delhi denied any responsibility. Some, including U.S. officials, believe the attack may have come in retaliation for the killing of 26 Indian civilians a week before in the villages of Parankot and Dhakikot.

The villagers in Bandala Seri deny that they have any connection to militant groups or that they have engaged in any attacks on Indians. Karim, the pharmacist, who lost 11 relatives in the massacre, said he would welcome a war with the Indians up on the hill, whether they are armed with nuclear weapons or not. "All the time," Karim said, "I think about revenge."

Folks here express little hope that relations between India and Pakistan, now fraught by nuclear arms, will improve any time soon.

Nizar Ahmed, whose brother, Zufhkar, was wounded in the attack, said the only solution to the problem in Kashmir is a total Indian withdrawal. If the Indians continue to refuse, he said, he doesn't hold out much hope. "In that case," Nizar said, "only atomic weapons will decide our future."

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Jamwal's said:


> Famous Pak propaganda to assuage the public.
> 
> 
> And there is no 7 casualties. Fire assault destroyed 4 posts and each post have at least a section or Platoon size strength. So you can figure the real casualties.
> 
> Rumor is that it could be cross border raid from the dreaded "Vengeance Brigade" as called by Las Angeles time way back in 90. Could be Pir Panjal Militia from our side.
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Here is the article from *LA times from 1998
> 
> http://articles.latimes.com/1998/may/27/news/mn-53885/2
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> *
> Kashmir Border Duels, Rhetoric Heat Up
> Pakistan: Villagers fear war as India rattles nuclear saber.
> 
> 
> May 27, 1998|DEXTER FILKINS | TIMES STAFF WRITER
> 
> 
> *The Indian soldiers are invisible* except for the search beams that leap from the trees at night. Some of the lights are a mere 500 yards from the center of Bandala Seri, easily within range of a modern rifle or machine gun.
> 
> Under Fire, Pakistanis Just Huddle Together
> 
> Three days ago, Pakistani villagers said, they had to run for their lives when Indian troops opened fire. When the Indians fire into the village at night, the town folk say, residents gather in one hut and huddle together until it ends.
> 
> Early Tuesday, the thunder of artillery fire and the crackle of machine guns 30 miles away were clearly audible in Bandala Seri.
> 
> Pakistani officials say they do their best to defend villagers but don't have nearly the troops that India does.
> 
> Although a few families have fled the border, most have chosen to stay put. "We are Muslims, and we are not afraid of death," said Fazal Karim, who runs a pharmacy in the village.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last month, in a widely reported incident, 22 villagers were massacred in Bandala Seri by gunmen believed to be from India. The villagers say the gang of a dozen men, all dressed in black, struck in the middle of the night and dropped leaflets to mark the attack.
> 
> "Vengeance Brigade," one leaflet said.
> 
> "Evil deeds bear evil fruit," said another.
> 
> "Ten eyes for one eye, one jaw for a single tooth," said a third.
> 
> Blood still stains the walls of several huts.
> 
> Villagers Deny Links to Militant Groups
> 
> When the Pakistani government accused the Indian government of sponsoring the attack, New Delhi denied any responsibility. Some, including U.S. officials, believe the attack may have come in retaliation for the killing of 26 Indian civilians a week before in the villages of Parankot and Dhakikot.
> 
> The villagers in Bandala Seri deny that they have any connection to militant groups or that they have engaged in any attacks on Indians. Karim, the pharmacist, who lost 11 relatives in the massacre, said he would welcome a war with the Indians up on the hill, whether they are armed with nuclear weapons or not. "All the time," Karim said, "I think about revenge."
> 
> Folks here express little hope that relations between India and Pakistan, now fraught by nuclear arms, will improve any time soon.
> 
> Nizar Ahmed, whose brother, Zufhkar, was wounded in the attack, said the only solution to the problem in Kashmir is a total Indian withdrawal. If the Indians continue to refuse, he said, he doesn't hold out much hope. "In that case," Nizar said, "only atomic weapons will decide our future."



I remember this incident.

After we hit them there was no massacre of innocent hindus for a long time.

My family is from that region and i know how it was during that period.These terrorists used to kill innocent hindus.

My cousin who is a teacher and a farmer was given a .303 and some rounds to defend themselves against these freedom fighters till the army comes to their rescue..

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## Abingdonboy

Jamwal's said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=779733405501392


Are these Ghataks of GR or are regulars being trained in PTK now also?


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## mkb95

Abingdonboy said:


> Are these Ghataks of GR or are regulars being trained in PTK now also?


this was from joint indra ex.i dont think we sent any sf so these must be regulars.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Are these Ghataks of GR or are regulars being trained in PTK now also?


Bro even if they are Ghatak its good news as Ghataks keep changing like postings etc so new guys keep coming and old one leave.

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## Abingdonboy

mkb95 said:


> this was from joint indra ex.i dont think we sent any sf so these must be regulars.


No doubt they are not SF but I am wondering whether they are the Ghataks or pure regulars, either way good to see such training being imparted, earlier only SFs (and specialist police units) had recieved such close quarter combat training.

----------------------------
----------------------------

PARA (SF) room intervention training:







Need to get those FAST helmets ASAP.

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## saumyasupratik

Jamwal's said:


> Barrett M 82 being inducted in BSF apart from SSG 69
> 
> 
> Nana Patekar visit in Jammu BSF
> 
> 
> View attachment 352538
> 
> 
> View attachment 352539



It's the newer M107A1 with the 4 slot muzzle brake seen here sans the monopod. Interestingly it seems they've gone for an after-market bipod. Great addition to the SSG69 and AMR/Vidhwansak 14.5/20 line-up for the BSF.

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## debspark90

saumyasupratik said:


> It's the newer M107A1 with the 4 slot muzzle brake seen here sans the monopod. Interestingly it seems they've gone for an after-market bipod. Great addition to the SSG69 and AMR/Vidhwansak 14.5/20 line-up for the BSF.



Wonder what scope will they use. Don't know if they will they use the ballistic course correction computer used on top. Just like NSG does on it's M98B.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Aman Depani

*Okay so I have a question about the MARCOS. I have seen a lot of pictures which shows them wearing seal tridents. Well, I live in North Carolina, USA, and a couple of my friends have their parents working at Fort Bragg, and I got to meet a couple of Navy Seals and have a talk with them. I was wondering how do the MARCOS have the Seal Trident? Do the Navy Seals even know about this and are they the ones that provide the trident? Please keep in mind I am in no way doubting the MARCOS ability or their credibility. I'm just curious. *


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## GuardianRED

Aman Depani said:


> *Okay so I have a question about the MARCOS. I have seen a lot of pictures which shows them wearing seal tridents. Well, I live in North Carolina, USA, and a couple of my friends have their parents working at Fort Bragg, and I got to meet a couple of Navy Seals and have a talk with them. I was wondering how do the MARCOS have the Seal Trident? Do the Navy Seals even know about this and are they the ones that provide the trident? Please keep in mind I am in no way doubting the MARCOS ability or their credibility. I'm just curious. *


if you look into the history on founding of the MARCOS , u will see that the initial operatives/trainer were first trained by the Navy SEALS, and thus it can be assume thereafter few operatives even now can join this course , thus allowing them to wear the Seal Trident

Case and point : Gen VK Singh - He has a ranger tab he wears on his uniform - why? cause he has joined completed that course


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## Hindustani78

The drill on 'intervention of rail coaches and countering of terrorist elements' was conducted by the NSG commandos in the wee hours at the Dhaula Kuan station

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...delhi-metro-stations/articleshow/55519092.cms

By PTI | Nov 20, 2016, 01.35 AM IST

NEW DELHI: A special counter-terror unit of NSG commandos today conducted a three-hour-long mock drill at a Delhi Metro station located on the airport express line here.

Officials said the drill on 'intervention of rail coaches and countering of terrorist elements' was conducted by the National Security Guard commandos in the wee hours at the Dhaula Kuan station where the 'black cats' also used their modern weapons and equipment used for neutralising terrorists and rescuing commuters.

The Dhaula Kuan station is an important passenger facility on the sensitive and faster airport express line of the Delhi Metro.

They said the strike team of over 350 commandos also conducted a similar drill on the coaches and depot area around the Dwarka Sector 8 station along with a small team of CISF personnel who secure the Metro network.

"The NSG teams were drawn from the elite counter-terror squad. The federal contingency force keeps doing these mock exercises to keep itself prepared for any contingency and response to a terrorist threat on the Delhi Metro network that carries over 26 lakh people everyday in the national capital area," they said adding the drills lasted for about three hours at each of the locations.

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## Killswitch

Since whew did the BSF have Barrret .50 cal sniper rifles? Is this a replacement for the Denel anti-material rifles? Were they bought in bulk?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Jamwal's said:


> Famous Pak propaganda to assuage the public.
> 
> 
> And there is no 7 casualties. Fire assault destroyed 4 posts and each post have at least a section or Platoon size strength. So you can figure the real casualties.




Im sure:








> Rumor is that it could be cross border raid from the dreaded "Vengeance Brigade" as called by Las Angeles time way back in 90. Could be Pir Panjal Militia from our side.
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Here is the article from *LA times from 1998
> 
> http://articles.latimes.com/1998/may/27/news/mn-53885/2
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> *
> Kashmir Border Duels, Rhetoric Heat Up
> Pakistan: Villagers fear war as India rattles nuclear saber.
> 
> 
> May 27, 1998|DEXTER FILKINS | TIMES STAFF WRITER
> 
> 
> *The Indian soldiers are invisible* except for the *search beams that leap from the trees at night. Some of the lights are a mere 500 yards from the center of Bandala Seri, easily within range of a modern rifle or machine gun.*
> 
> Under Fire, Pakistanis Just Huddle Together
> 
> Three days ago, *Pakistani villagers *said, they had to run for their lives when Indian troops opened fire. When the *Indians fire into the village at night*, the town folk say, residents gather in one hut and huddle together until it ends.
> 
> Early Tuesday, the thunder of artillery fire and the crackle of machine guns 30 miles away were clearly audible in Bandala Seri.
> 
> Pakistani officials say they do their best to defend villagers but don't have nearly the troops that India does.
> 
> Although a few families have fled the border, most have chosen to stay put. "We are Muslims, and we are not afraid of death," said Fazal Karim, who runs a pharmacy in the village.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last month, in a widely reported incident, *22 villagers were massacred in Bandala Seri by gunmen believed to be from India. *The villagers say the gang of a dozen men, all dressed in black, struck in the middle of the night and dropped leaflets to mark the attack.
> 
> "Vengeance Brigade," one leaflet said.
> 
> "Evil deeds bear evil fruit," said another.
> 
> "Ten eyes for one eye, one jaw for a single tooth," said a third.
> 
> Blood still stains the walls of several huts.
> 
> Villagers Deny Links to Militant Groups
> 
> When the Pakistani government accused the Indian government of sponsoring the attack, New Delhi denied any responsibility. Some, including U.S. officials, believe the attack may have come in retaliation for the killing of 26 Indian civilians a week before in the villages of Parankot and Dhakikot.
> 
> *The villagers in Bandala Seri deny that they have any connection to militant groups or that they have engaged in any attacks on Indians. Karim, the pharmacist, who lost 11 relatives in the massacre, said he would welcome a war with the Indians up on the hill, whether they are armed with nuclear weapons or not. "All the time," Karim said, "I think about revenge."*
> 
> Folks here express little hope that relations between India and Pakistan, now fraught by nuclear arms, will improve any time soon.
> *
> Nizar Ahmed, whose brother, Zufhkar, was wounded in the attack, said the only solution to the problem in Kashmir is a total Indian withdrawal. If the Indians continue to refuse, he said, he doesn't hold out much hope. "In that case," Nizar said, "only atomic weapons will decide our future."*




Just pissed on your own self... killing innocent civilians ...

Kashmiris hatred for india.

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## Aman Depani

GuardianRED said:


> if you look into the history on founding of the MARCOS , u will see that the initial operatives/trainer were first trained by the Navy SEALS, and thus it can be assume thereafter few operatives even now can join this course , thus allowing them to wear the Seal Trident
> 
> Case and point : Gen VK Singh - He has a ranger tab he wears on his uniform - why? cause he has joined completed that course



Okay so not every Marco has it right? Because not all of them complete BUDs. So how does it work? Some Marcos come over to here to America and train and complete the 6 month course? If so, why do some people, like the Navy Seals I met, deny it? Is it classified or something?


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## Abingdonboy

Aman Depani said:


> *Okay so I have a question about the MARCOS. I have seen a lot of pictures which shows them wearing seal tridents. Well, I live in North Carolina, USA, and a couple of my friends have their parents working at Fort Bragg, and I got to meet a couple of Navy Seals and have a talk with them. I was wondering how do the MARCOS have the Seal Trident? Do the Navy Seals even know about this and are they the ones that provide the trident? Please keep in mind I am in no way doubting the MARCOS ability or their credibility. I'm just curious. *


Those MARCOs operators who have the SEAL trident have EARNED it. In the 80s MARCOs were raised along the SEAL model and many of the intial MARCOs instructors went to the US to learn from the SEALs. Every few years they send over a small batch of operators to take part in SEAL training and see what they can take back home for their own training.

Curious what pics you are reffering too though, there aren't many pics of MARCOs let alone with SEAL tridents.

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## Unknowncommando

BSF Commando during his Manesar visit

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 354709
> 
> BSF Commando during his Manesar visit


Do specialist BSF teams train with NSG at Manesar or was this a one off visit?


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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> Do specialist BSF teams train with NSG at Manesar or was this a one off visit?



From what i hear the cross training with other Commando teams are quiet common...

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Do specialist BSF teams train with NSG at Manesar or was this a one off visit?


Yes they keep training and visiting there.




Marcos




PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


Who are the guys in the DPM? Sri Lankans?


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Who are the guys in the DPM? Sri Lankans?


Most probably Sri Lankans

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## django

Is the the fabled Garud or Para-Commando regiment of the Indian army? An answer to my query would be greatly appreciated.Kudos

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## Water Car Engineer

django said:


> Is the the fabled Garud or Para-Commando regiment of the Indian army? An answer to my query would be greatly appreciated.Kudos




Looks like none of them.


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## django

Water Car Engineer said:


> Looks like none of them.


I am pretty certain they belong to a particular branch of Indian special ops, which one I am not quite certain.Kudos


----------



## Water Car Engineer

django said:


> I am pretty certain they belong to a particular branch of Indian special ops, which one I am not quite certain.Kudos



They dont look it, definitely not the two you mentioned, who are mostly young, fit.


























Gaurds have even demoed tactical insertion from C130, which I doubt any of those guys can demonstrate.

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## Abingdonboy

django said:


> Is the the fabled Garud or Para-Commando regiment of the Indian army? An answer to my query would be greatly appreciated.Kudos


They are from Chhattisgarh state police

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## mkb95

Water Car Engineer said:


> Gaurds have even demoed tactical insertion from C130, which I doubt any of those guys can demonstrate.


what are those 3 balloon like structure at 1:54?


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## debspark90

mkb95 said:


> what are those 3 balloon like structure at 1:54?


Those were large parachutes blowing in the wind. Those were used for dropping Heavy payloads and machinaries.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

Garud

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos









Galil Snipers of PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members of PM's SPG detail:

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## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




Paratroopers







MARCOS

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Do we have anyone from INDRA here on this forum?


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## Unknowncommando

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Do we have anyone from INDRA here on this forum?


Bolo mama mai hoon




NSG

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## Local_Legend

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 356388
> View attachment 356390
> View attachment 356391
> View attachment 356392
> View attachment 356393
> View attachment 356394
> 
> Garud Commandos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 356395
> 
> Galil Snipers of PARA SF




I always believe that we don't have explored the use of Snipers. Just look at the available sniping systems in our armory . Dragunov , IWI Galil ... PSG 1 

Wish to see M 107 , AS 50 etc as the standard issue sniper rifles with them , which can be customized with wide range of optics. M 107 can do the anti personnel as well as the anti material rifle role. Our current anti material rifle Vidwanshak weights 25 kg, needs two person to move it. The M 107 weights half of it , has the same range and delivers same results.


----------



## debspark90

Local_Legend said:


> I always believe that we don't have explored the use of Snipers. Just look at the available sniping systems in our armory . Dragunov , IWI Galil ... PSG 1
> 
> Wish to see M 107 , AS 50 etc as the standard issue sniper rifles with them , which can be customized with wide range of optics. M 107 can do the anti personnel as well as the anti material rifle role. Our current anti material rifle Vidwanshak weights 25 kg, needs two person to move it. The M 107 weights half of it , has the same range and delivers same results.



M107A1 for BSF and Jak Li

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## Abingdonboy

Local_Legend said:


> I always believe that we don't have explored the use of Snipers. Just look at the available sniping systems in our armory . Dragunov , IWI Galil ... PSG 1
> 
> Wish to see M 107 , AS 50 etc as the standard issue sniper rifles with them , which can be customized with wide range of optics. M 107 can do the anti personnel as well as the anti material rifle role. Our current anti material rifle Vidwanshak weights 25 kg, needs two person to move it. The M 107 weights half of it , has the same range and delivers same results.


NSG operates the Barrett m98B with BORS for the long range shots but considering their role their preferance for shorter ranged designated marksmen rifles makes perfect sense.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> Bolo mama mai hoon
> View attachment 357208
> 
> NSG


Kuch nahi..I am a follower of your page on FB.Just wanted to know who runs it.


----------



## Local_Legend

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG operates the Barrett m98B with BORS for the long range shots but considering their role their preferance for shorter ranged designated marksmen rifles makes perfect sense.




Yes indeed . Wish to see the new sniper systems replacing the old in every branch of our army. NSG tactics more or less grown around CQB.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Local_Legend said:


> Yes indeed . Wish to see the new sniper systems replacing the old in every branch of our army. NSG tactics more or less grown around CQB.


To be honest the Sniper situation in India is pretty fucked up.
I doubt the Army snipers even use Ballistic computers/Kestrel/advance range finders etc.

Infact i will be surprised if they are taught the importance of elevation/wind direction/speed/pressure/weather etc.

They mostly try to make up with their skills and luck using the SVD.I dont even think anyone is even capable of taking the 2.5kms kill shot in combat.

Regarding the NSG i think it has given preference to Snipers.They are seen many times with SIG for medium range and obviously the conventional sniper rifles for long range.

SF also has the same case like NSG the problem is in the infantry.

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## Unknowncommando




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## Abingdonboy

NSG (SAG) drill at a high school in Chandigarh:

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## ahsanhaider

What is the analysis of Indians on this documentary made by an international observer of India-Pakistan Conflicts?


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## Water Car Engineer

ahsanhaider said:


> What is the analysis of Indians on this documentary made by an international observer of India-Pakistan Conflicts?




Totally ignored India's navy and airforce. And they act like India has no T90s. Even still, in several wars you guys had an edge in quality within your army and airforce. Still didnt help Pakistan.

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## Swordfish

ahsanhaider said:


> What is the analysis of Indians on this documentary made by an international observer of India-Pakistan Conflicts?



Not sure but this is outdated video.


----------



## ksanjay77

Water Car Engineer said:


> Totally ignored India's navy and airforce. And they act like India has no T90s. Even still, in several wars you guys had an edge in quality within your army and airforce. Still didnt help Pakistan.


 It has been made to make them feel happy!!!! Now they can relax & think of conquering the mighty USA!!!!!


----------



## Water Car Engineer



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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


>


Vid bro?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> Vid bro?








Navy just released new video.

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## Abingdonboy

(not Special Forces but worth posting here IMHO), Indian Navy security team (fleet protection) members:

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## Abingdonboy

Indian Navy MARCOs:

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Abingdonboy

SPG Counter Assualt Team (CAT) memebers seen during PM's visit to Chennai to pay respect to Jayalalithaa:

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## Unknowncommando



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

NSG






Marcos with peers

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## bloo

Water Car Engineer said:


> NSG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcos with peers



Shouldn't the faces be pixelated?

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## Unknowncommando

Marco


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## RPK



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Aman Depani

Water Car Engineer said:


>



Yo where did you get these pictures from?


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## Unknowncommando

124 recruits passed out from Parachute Training Center & joined folds of Parachute Regiment as Paratroopers in Bengaluru 

The passing out parade was reviewed by Lt. Gen N S Ghei, Commandant, National Defence College and Colonel of the Parachute Regiment. In his address, he urged the new recruits to standby the basic soldierly ethos namely "Imandari", "Wafadari" and "Bahaduri".

The parade was commanded by Recruit Avtar Singh. The dignatory gave away the awards to Amit Kumar Bhardwaj who won the Gill Medal for overall Best Recruit, while the best in Endurance Medal to Recruit Santhosh Kumar. Cheema Medal for best Recruit in Physical Training to Recruit Debamon Rabha and Chettri Medal for Best Recruit in drill was awarded to Recruit Avtar Singh.

Congrats to the Emperors' in red beret! You are the best and join the finest. 

Do your regiment proud!


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## rockstarIN

^^ special forces unit?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

rockstarIN said:


> ^^ special forces unit?


Parachute regtt non SF.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Abingdonboy

rockstarIN said:


> ^^ special forces unit?


Nope, paratroopers.


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## Unknowncommando

Marcos Navy Day 2k16

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS Navy Day


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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## Hindustani78

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/587393/in-first-nsg-commandos-may.html
New Delhi, Dec 19, 2016, PTI:




*For the first time in the history of Republic Day celebrations, the 'black cat' commandos of the elite counter-terror force NSG may march down Rajpath in full armed gear on January 26 next.*

Officials said a decision in this regard has been taken after a meeting between the Union Home and Defence Ministries following which the National Security Guard (NSG) headquarters here has begun preparations to choose a contingent of about 60 commandos to showcase its prowess and commando-style fast march past.

"This would be the first time when the federal contingency force would participate in the Republic Day events by marching down Rajpath. The first clearances have been issued and hopefully the NSG contingent will march," they said.

Once at Rajpath, the 'black cats' will reflect a dashing sheen to the parade as they will be dressed in their trademark black coloured overalls, balaclava headgear and special assault rifles MP-5 along with the iconic commando dagger.

Till now, the troops of Army's Special Forces were the only commando force to take part in the Rajpath during January 26 celebrations.

The NSG contingent is expected to include commandos from both the army and paramilitary-based units of the force, stationed at their garrison in Manesar near here.

However, it is expected that like last year, some regular paramilitary contingents may not be included this time too.

While the iconic Border Security Force camel and band contingent has been given a go ahead for inclusion in the parade that straddles down from the citadel of power at Raisina hills to the 17th century-built monument Red Fort, the contingent of border guarding Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB) may miss the show.

"While the CRPF's special anti-riot unit RAF and Central Industrial Security Force contingents have been included, the inclusion of Indo-Tibetan Border Polices' squad is still uncertain and SSB may be a no show.

"Last time, the Central Armed Police Forces squad at Rajpath did not have ITBP, CISF and SSB contingents," they said.

Senior commanders of the SSB and ITBP, they said, have already made official requests to the Home Ministry to take up the matter of the inclusion of their contingents with the Defence Ministry, the nodal authority for conduct of January 26 celebrations at Rajpath.

The NSG, raised in 1984, is the federal force to undertake counter-terror and counter-hijack operations across the country and till now it was associated with the Republic Day celebrations by way of providing its crack teams for special combat deployment around the parade route and sanitising it by deployment of snipers.

************

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...rity-cover-from-union-government_1959957.html

Under the 'X' category, about 5-6 armed commandos are deployed with each VIP, they said.

A similar cover was recently accorded to a senior journalist of a TV news channel.

The CISF has over 70 VIPs, including the new protectees, under it.

RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat and National Security Advisor (NSA) Ajit Doval are among prominent VIPs protected by the CISF, tasked primarily to secure major civil airports and vital installations in the country.

Elections to Punjab assembly are expected to be held in February-March next year along with four other states of Uttar Pradesh, Goa, Uttarakhand and Manipur.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
Credits - IPC page


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Hindustani78

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...anti-terrorist-drill-in-gurugram_1960202.html

Gurugram: National Security Guard (NSG) commandos carried out a mock anti-terrorist drill in a multi-storey building here -- and "killed two terrorists and injured one".


Over 100 commandos, after a tip that three terrorists had entered the building of a multinational company on the Delhi-Gurgaon expressway and taken people hostage, reached the spot at around 9.30 p.m. on Monday.

The commandos first set up a control room within half hour and evacuated the building before "gunning down" two terrorists and injuring one. The mock drill ended early on Tuesday.

The commandos, who came from their base camp in Manesar, were led by an officer of Group Commandant rank and had a bomb disposal robot as well as a dog squad.

The police too reached the spot after being informed about the "attack".

"Private security guards at the building were not aware of what was happening and they thought terrorists were inside the building," said an onlooker.

Traffic heading towards Hero Honda Chowk to reach the National Highway was diverted.

Later, SWAT commandos of Haryana Police reached the spot only to find it was a mock drill.

"The NSG usually conducts such exercises in Gurugram and other parts of the country but keeps such operations secret," said a commando who did not wish to be named.


First Published: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 - 19:21

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
Camos

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## noksss

SPG

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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> SPG


This guy has a death wish

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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> This guy has a death wish



Doval needs to make him understand the seriousness of the issue but even he cant go beyond some point

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## Mustang06

noksss said:


> SPG


What is the SPG person in front of the vehicle carrying in his hand?


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## Abingdonboy

Mustang06 said:


> What is the SPG person in front of the vehicle carrying in his hand?


Collapsable kevlar sheild/blanket



noksss said:


> Doval needs to make him understand the seriousness of the issue but even he cant go beyond some point


I don't doubt Doval has told him but Modi is a pretty arrogant SOB and there's not much the SPG/Doval can do- it is the PM's prerogative to do these sort of things.Exceptionally stupid though.....


He has enemies left and right (and more being added every day) and Modi has a duty to ensure the elected PM of the nation is not put at undue risk.

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## bloo

Mustang06 said:


> What is the SPG person in front of the vehicle carrying in his hand?


Bulletproof briefcase.

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## Hindustani78

noksss said:


> Doval needs to make him understand the seriousness of the issue but even he cant go beyond some point



NSA is well aware , What point who is making and why ?

Bahut Sabr karre Hindustan ki Quam.



Abingdonboy said:


> This guy has a death wish




Thats why Republic of India has cancelled SAARC meeting in Islamabad.

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## Abingdonboy

Hindustani78 said:


> Thats why Republic of India has cancelled SAARC meeting in Islamabad.


Pakistan can still make an attempt on the PM's life in India.

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## Hindustani78

Abingdonboy said:


> Pakistan can still make an attempt on the PM's life in India.



NSA is well aware thats why SAARC meeting was cancelled in Islamabad.


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS and Naval Divers
Playing Volleyball
Onboard Navy Ship

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## Unknowncommando

Para




NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Unknowncommando



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## Water Car Engineer



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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Pakistan can still make an attempt on the PM's life in India.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF




MARCOS

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## Abingdonboy

For the first time in 8+ years the SPG has received new escort vehicles (armoured Toyota Fortuners) for the PM's offical motorcade


Around 20 such vehicles have been inducted.

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## Unknowncommando

Dhoni with MARCOS


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## Zarvan

Abingdonboy said:


> Pakistan can still make an attempt on the PM's life in India.


If we go for higher official it would be Ajit Doval first. Although chances are low until and unless you try to attack any of our leader.


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## noksss

Zarvan said:


> If we go for higher official it would be Ajit Doval first. Although chances are low until and unless you try to attack any of our leader.


Why are you guys scared of a 4ft tall guy  and ur super duper ISI was successful when India was not ready for the 21st century Terrorist tactics and intelligence gathering but post Mumbai attack everything went for an overhaul in both IB and RAW . So it wont be easy for ISI to have a successful terrorist attack in India like it used be earlier let alone targeting a high value person


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## Zarvan

noksss said:


> Why are you guys scared of a 4ft tall guy  and ur super duper ISI was successful when India was not ready for the 21st century Terrorist tactics and intelligence gathering but post Mumbai attack everything went for an overhaul in both IB and RAW . So it wont be easy for ISI to have a successful terrorist attack in India like it used be earlier let alone targeting a high value person


The day ISI decides with in a month you would see DIWALI in your country.

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## noksss

Zarvan said:


> The day ISI decides with in a month you would see DIWALI in your country.



U need money dude check what Demonetization has done to ur proxies funding interms of Sleeper cells, Illegal drug Trade, Fake currency notes and many more

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## MimophantSlayer

Zarvan said:


> The day ISI decides with in a month you would see DIWALI in your country.



I'm sure you are all made to think that for the sake of having some semblance of 'peace of mind', but that surprise is long since gone.
In ISI's oh so obvious belligerence, you lot have actually made us stronger.
After 2008 there is no "diwali" we can't handle.

But keep thinking that, if nothing else at the least it'll help you sleep at night.

NSG Before 2008.






NSG After 2008

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## Dean Winchester

Zarvan said:


> The day ISI decides with in a month you would see DIWALI in your country.


The day RAW decides withina a week you would have 2009 level of Ramadan in your country.

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## Zarvan

cyclops said:


> I'm sure you are all made to think that for the sake of having some semblance of 'peace of mind', but that surprise is long since gone.
> In ISI's oh so obvious belligerence, you lot have actually made us stronger.
> After 2008 there is no "diwali" we can't handle.
> 
> But keep thinking that, if nothing else at the least it'll help you sleep at night.
> 
> Before 2008.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 2008
> View attachment 367030



The way you handled Pathankot and Uri and other places is quite evident. You didn't even knew How many militants have attacked and How many you have killed.

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## Gessler

Zarvan said:


> The way you handled Pathankot and Uri and other places is quite evident. You didn't even knew How many militants have attacked and How many you have killed.



I would reckon that Pathankot was handled better than any Mehran or Kamra. We took out the bad guys without letting them cause any damage to high-value tactical assets (which was likely their objective - why else would you attack an AFS?)

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## $@rJen

Water Car Engineer said:


>


 T
the first pic... is that a encounter??


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## Unknowncommando

sarjenprabhu said:


> T
> the first pic... is that a encounter??


Yes it is from first URI attack.
@noksss bro don't discuss plzz. Don't you know these peacefuls glorify deaths of non believers. Don't waste your energy on arguments with brainwashed jihaadis. Contribute with some SF related stuff.
Don't derail if you can't contribute request to all.

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## Hindustani78

Zarvan said:


> The day ISI decides with in a month you would see DIWALI in your country.



Mindset in Republic of India has been completely changed after Indians are understanding what type of proxy war is being waged against Republic of India.

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## MimophantSlayer

Zarvan said:


> The way you handled Pathankot and Uri and other places is quite evident. You didn't even knew How many militants have attacked and How many you have killed.



Considering everything, we handled it far, far better than you lot have ever handled similar attacks.

Even the best militaries cannot protect themselves 100% of the time.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
(Pic From 2013)

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 367629
> 
> NSG
> (Pic From 2013)


NSG haven't changed much since 2013 then, which is pretty disappointing. They should be constantly upgrading their kit

----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------



NSG at rehearsals for R-Day parade 2017:

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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG haven't changed much since 2013 then, which is pretty disappointing. They should be constantly upgrading their kit
> 
> ----------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> NSG at rehearsals for R-Day parade 2017:



First time I'm seeing an armed HazMat guy from NSG.


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## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> First time I'm seeing an armed HazMat guy from NSG.


To be expected, these guys have to be ready for anything and everything.

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## hkdas

WTF... WTF!!!!??

It took the Indian Army a trip to the US to be convinced about the quality and efficiency of Tonbo’s products. In its initial days, Tonbo had approached the Indian Army to sell its devices, but the Army was skeptical about the product as it did not have any existing users. Later, in 2012, Tonbo approached the US Army Special Forces, who procured around 15 pieces of its thermal imaging device from the company, helping Tonbo validate its product. “The Indian military was on a joint exercise in the US when the US Army Special Forces were using this equipment (Tonbo’s); the visiting Indian team was fascinated by the equipment and on enquiring, found out that the devices came from back home in Bangalore,” says Arvind.

Tonbo had already sold its products to about four-five foreign clients before the Indian defence forces decided to procure its devices. Today, Tonbo counts organisations like* US agency Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), India’s NSG, CRPF, the Indian Army’s Northern Command, companies like BHEL, L&T, TATA and others, and security forces from across the world among its clientele. Some of the company’s imaging systems were procured by the Turkish army to strengthen* its fight against the IS.



http://idrw.org/during-pathankot-attack-indian-army-turned-to-little-known-startup-tonbo-imaging/ .
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando




Shifu Kanishka training Special Forces IN Tirsia Counter Edge Weapon Training

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## Abingdonboy

NSG rehearsing for R-day parade 2017:


























































When I saw the NSG were going to take part in this parade I was pretty indifferent as I thought it would be similar to the PARA (SF) running march and that would be it. Seeing them in their full gear along with their assualt vehicles moving down Rajpath is bada$$ and in these fading light conditions they look even cooler (with their helmet mounted flashlights and vehicle headlights shining bright) it's a shame that on the day the condidtions will be bright as it is in the morning.

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## hkdas

Abingdonboy said:


> it would be similar to the PARA (SF) running march


it is also there... 







Abingdonboy said:


> NSG rehearsing for R-day parade 2017:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I saw the NSG were going to take part in this parade I was pretty indifferent as I thought it would be similar to the PARA (SF) running march and that would be it. Seeing them in their full gear along with their assualt vehicles moving down Rajpath is bada$$ and in these fading light conditions they look even cooler (with their helmet mounted flashlights and vehicle headlights shining bright) it's a shame that on the day the condidtions will be bright as it is in the morning.


bro.. post that video link too..

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> it is also there...


I meant that I thought all we would see is an NSG contingent doing a fast march down the Rajpath but am pleasantly surprised by their contribution (including their assualt vehicles and fully kitted operators) bro.




hkdas said:


> bro.. post that video link too..

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## hkdas

@Abingdonboy




from another angle...

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## hkdas



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## ranjeet



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## Gessler

ranjeet said:


>



MARCOS?


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## hkdas

Gessler said:


> MARCOS?


para SF

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG rehearsing for R-day parade 2017:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I saw the NSG were going to take part in this parade I was pretty indifferent as I thought it would be similar to the PARA (SF) running march and that would be it. Seeing them in their full gear along with their assualt vehicles moving down Rajpath is bada$$ and in these fading light conditions they look even cooler (with their helmet mounted flashlights and vehicle headlights shining bright) it's a shame that on the day the condidtions will be bright as it is in the morning.


Its very unnecessary to put SF or SU in the parade doing jogging and screaming.

We dont have to copy what Pakistan does.

SF and SU are secretive in nature and it is a very good decision to not have PARA SF in the parade this year.

Such public shows can be excluded specially when you dont even give bravery awards to SF operators in such parades.



hkdas said:


> WTF... WTF!!!!??
> 
> It took the Indian Army a trip to the US to be convinced about the quality and efficiency of Tonbo’s products. In its initial days, Tonbo had approached the Indian Army to sell its devices, but the Army was skeptical about the product as it did not have any existing users. Later, in 2012, Tonbo approached the US Army Special Forces, who procured around 15 pieces of its thermal imaging device from the company, helping Tonbo validate its product. “The Indian military was on a joint exercise in the US when the US Army Special Forces were using this equipment (Tonbo’s); the visiting Indian team was fascinated by the equipment and on enquiring, found out that the devices came from back home in Bangalore,” says Arvind.
> 
> Tonbo had already sold its products to about four-five foreign clients before the Indian defence forces decided to procure its devices. Today, Tonbo counts organisations like* US agency Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), India’s NSG, CRPF, the Indian Army’s Northern Command, companies like BHEL, L&T, TATA and others, and security forces from across the world among its clientele. Some of the company’s imaging systems were procured by the Turkish army to strengthen* its fight against the IS.
> 
> 
> 
> http://idrw.org/during-pathankot-attack-indian-army-turned-to-little-known-startup-tonbo-imaging/ .
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shifu Kanishka training Special Forces IN Tirsia Counter Edge Weapon Training
> 
> View attachment 368213
> View attachment 368214
> View attachment 368215
> View attachment 368216
> View attachment 368217
> View attachment 368218
> View attachment 368219
> View attachment 368220


We are one of the biggest importer and not exporter only because of our habit,customs,practices and behavior.

I am not saying we could invent a new technology but we could easily be self sufficient which we are not.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Its very unnecessary to put SF or SU in the parade doing jogging and screaming.
> 
> We dont have to copy what Pakistan does.
> 
> SF and SU are secretive in nature and it is a very good decision to not have PARA SF in the parade this year.
> 
> Such public shows can be excluded specially when you dont even give bravery awards to SF operators in such parades.


I fully agree BUT here the NSG will not just be doing a pointless fast march but will also be showcasing some of their operators in full operational gear which will be an eye opener for many who still have an outdated idea about the NSG and its capabilities. The GoI has spent a lot of money in getting them up to a semi-world class standard and I think it is fair to showcase some of their stuff especially as these are the hereos of Pathankot.

It will be a "feel good" moment for many Indians I'm sure.


+ the operators will all have their faces covered so there is no risk to their identities.


++ hopefully we never see PARA (SF) doing a fast march down Rajpath again, it simply demeans them.

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## hkdas

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Its very unnecessary to put SF or SU in the parade doing jogging and screaming.
> 
> We dont have to copy what Pakistan does.
> 
> SF and SU are secretive in nature and it is a very good decision to not have PARA SF in the parade this year.
> 
> Such public shows can be excluded specially when you dont even give bravery awards to SF operators in such parades.





Abingdonboy said:


> I fully agree BUT here the NSG will not just be doing a pointless fast march but will also be showcasing some of their operators in full operational gear which will be an eye opener for many who still have an outdated idea about the NSG and its capabilities. The GoI has spent a lot of money in getting them up to a semi-world class standard and I think it is fair to showcase some of their stuff especially as these are the hereos of Pathankot.
> 
> It will be a "feel good" moment for many Indians I'm sure.
> 
> 
> + the operators will all have their faces covered so there is no risk to their identities.
> 
> 
> ++ hopefully we never see PARA (SF) doing a fast march down Rajpath again, it simply demeans them.



guys, there are lot of people who are interested in para SF's march past and some are watching the republic day pared only see the para SF in there.. there are many people in remote areas where they saw the para SF only at the republic day parade.. its a matter of proud to their loved one to say .."look that is my father's unit or brother's unit or husband's unit or son's unit". as @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said para are not even get bravery awards, so it isn't necessary at least they need to be present in republic day pared??








paraSF

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## Indika

Abingdonboy said:


> I fully agree BUT here the NSG will not just be doing a pointless fast march but will also be showcasing some of their operators in full operational gear which will be an eye opener for many who still have an outdated idea about the NSG and its capabilities. The GoI has spent a lot of money in getting them up to a semi-world class standard and I think it is fair to showcase some of their stuff especially as these are the hereos of Pathankot.
> 
> It will be a "feel good" moment for many Indians I'm sure.
> 
> 
> + the operators will all have their faces covered so there is no risk to their identities.
> 
> 
> ++ hopefully we never see PARA (SF) doing a fast march down Rajpath again, it simply demeans them.


Why the hell should we keep proving ourselves to every tom , dick & harry? Just getting the work should be good enuf. There will be doubting thomas's any way irrespective of what is shown. Our deeds should speak for us not ourselves. Remember we should always keep the enemy surprised.


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## $@rJen

Abingdonboy said:


> I fully agree BUT here the NSG will not just be doing a pointless fast march but will also be showcasing some of their operators in full operational gear which will be an eye opener for many who still have an outdated idea about the NSG and its capabilities. The GoI has spent a lot of money in getting them up to a semi-world class standard and I think it is fair to showcase some of their stuff especially as these are the hereos of Pathankot.
> 
> It will be a "feel good" moment for many Indians I'm sure.
> 
> 
> + the operators will all have their faces covered so there is no risk to their identities.
> 
> 
> ++ hopefully we never see PARA (SF) doing a fast march down Rajpath again, it simply demeans them.



But the guys who are running are not in full gear.. what's up with that!??


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## Unknowncommando

Paratroopers




Father & Daughter performed PARA jump together.

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## hkdas

army day 2017 demo by 6th para(airborne)

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## Abingdonboy

6th PARA (airborne):

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## Abingdonboy

NSG rehearsal for R-day parade 2017:


paradrop load out:





CRBN, HAZMAT and combat divers:








EOD tech, bomb detection dog and assualt dog:








The beast, Sherpa assualt platform:









NSG must realise they are n easy target during this event so have deployed signifcant force protection operators to stand guard over the NSG parade/demo:













My favourite pic:








good boy

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## Abingdonboy

contd....

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## Abingdonboy

contd.......

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## Abingdonboy

contd....

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## Water Car Engineer

I cant stand those Marutis. I like this new LSV TATA is working on.






Even with the weight clause, it looks well armored in the front, cabin.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## John Reese

Abingdonboy said:


> 6th PARA (airborne):


6 th para never heard about there role any specific


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## Abingdonboy

John Reese said:


> 6 th para never heard about there role any specific


They are a non-SF btn in the PARA regiment (like 5 and 7 btns), they act as support elements to the SF teams and also have a similar behind enemy lines type of role during war.

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## hkdas

para Sf






NSG

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## hkdas

6th para on army day

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## Unknowncommando

NSG 




MARCOS with Royal Marines




PARA SF operator

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## hkdas

para SF

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## $@rJen

hkdas said:


> para Sf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSG



Bro is any of this videos available in English? ?


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## Śakra

sarjenprabhu said:


> Bro is any of this videos available in English? ?



U don't know Hindi??? Srsly it's the national language of India how don't you know it.


----------



## AMCA

Śakra said:


> U don't know Hindi??? Srsly it's the national language of India how don't you know it.



India does not have a national language. You could have googled before trolling

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## Indian_gorkha

Śakra said:


> U don't know Hindi??? Srsly it's the national language of India how don't you know it.


Hindi is not the national language. U don't know Google??? Srsly it's the internationally known search engine how don't you know it.

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## hkdas

sarjenprabhu said:


> Bro is any of this videos available in English? ?


no bro... all the videos i found are in hindi...

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos
Republic Day Rehearsals

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## $@rJen

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 369754
> 
> NSG Commandos
> Republic Day Rehearsals



Why aren't they in full gear??


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## Mustang06

sarjenprabhu said:


> Why aren't they in full gear??


I guess marching on full gear would be little difficult or maybe they'll do it on the Republic Day itself.


----------



## Abingdonboy

sarjenprabhu said:


> Why aren't they in full gear??


You try running 14km in full gear 

I already think their fast march down the Rajpath with balacalavas on is bordering superhuman, having their full bulkyequipment (weighing 15+ kg) including a helmet just isn't practical. There equipment is not designed to be worn for such marathon runs that is why only the operators on the vehicles are in full gear.



sarjenprabhu said:


> Why aren't they in full gear??


You try running 14km in full gear 

I already think their fast march down the Rajpath with balacalavas on is bordering superhuman, having their full bulkyequipment (weighing 15+ kg) including a helmet just isn't practical. There equipment is not designed to be worn for such marathon runs that is why only the operators on the vehicles are in full gear.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Jamwal's

Killswitch said:


> Since whew did the BSF have Barrret .50 cal sniper rifles? Is this a replacement for the Denel anti-material rifles? Were they bought in bulk?



BSF don't use .50 cal but Barrett M 98B chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum. Also in service with 51/ 52 SAG

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## Mustang06

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 370047
> 
> PARA SF


Talk about Rambo!


----------



## bloo

Water Car Engineer said:


>




Can you post the original video please?


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG COMMANDO

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando



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## Lord Of Gondor

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 370384


Their elbow protection is off position. 
Difficult to march with that, I suppose?


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## Unknowncommando

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Their elbow protection is off position.
> Difficult to march with that, I suppose?


Yup thats the reason




NSG SAG
SIG 551 SB with GL5040 UBGL & Night Scope 




Belgian Shepherd (Malinois)

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS













NSG

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> Yup thats the reason
> View attachment 370421
> 
> NSG SAG
> SIG 551 SB with GL5040 UBGL & Night Scope



Thanks for this! First time I'm seeing an NSG SIG rifle with UBGL...also these are divers!

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## Unknowncommando

Gessler said:


> Thanks for this! First time I'm seeing an NSG SIG rifle with UBGL...also these are divers!


Well i myself have posted NSG SIG WITH UBGL pictures 3-4 times before this. May be you missed those.




NSG

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## RPK

IAF Garuds

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## Abingdonboy

NSG are looking awesome but I still think they have a long way to go, they are easily the best equipped (and best trained) intervention unit in the region but they should be on par (in equipment terms) with the top units of the West (FBI HRT, GSG9, GIGN etc) and I still think they are a few steps behind but they are closing.

NSG know this and they have an active future soldier program running until 2025.



Unknowncommando said:


> Belgian Shepherd (Malinois)


Awesome dogs (Malinois)! Smart, agile, fast and a terrifying bite!

All told these dogs cost around $10-12,000 USD each (working line breed, training, lodging , healthcare etc) and they are worth every penny.

+maybe this Malinois is the infamous Rocket from Pathankot ops?

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG are looking awesome but I still think they have a long way to go, they are easily the best equipped (and best trained) intervention unit in the region but they should be on par (in equipment terms) with the top units of the West (FBI HRT, GSG9, GIGN etc) and I still think they are a few steps behind but they are closing.
> 
> NSG know this and they have an active future soldier program running until 2025.
> 
> 
> Awesome dogs (Malinois)! Smart, agile, fast and a terrifying bite!
> 
> All told these dogs cost around $10-12,000 USD each (working line breed, training, lodging , healthcare etc) and they are worth every penny.
> 
> +maybe this Malinois is the infamous Rocket from Pathankot ops?



Much much much more on its way regarding the kit before 2020 bro.

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## debspark90

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Much much much more on its way regarding the kit before 2020 bro.



Like ? 
Can you give some names of equipment?


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

debspark90 said:


> Like ?
> Can you give some names of equipment?


No buddy..I was having a chat with a NSG SRG Operator.So he told me that more upgrades are on the way and might well happen before 2025.

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## Abingdonboy

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> No buddy..I was having a chat with a NSG SRG Operator.So he told me that more upgrades are on the way and might well happen before 2025.


Agreed bro, I fully expect the NSG to keep making progress and commend them for their forward thinking in regards to their future soldier 2025 project. No way are they going to stand still in the interim whilst those technologies are developed though, and atleast the GoI does seem to be behind them.

Still think a number of strcutural changes need to happen though:

Thinking about the present day NSG structure and deployment patterns I think this model should be purused:


1) have a central team of career NSG operators (present deputation formula means all are on 3 year tenures), these can be the"Phantoms" ie the top socring NSG recruits can be the "main counter terror task force" (already exists in Delhi) made up of a self contained assualt unit with all support teams (EOD, K9, sniper, logistics etc) and support equipment (vehicles, supplies, ammo etc) deployed in a central location in India and co-located with them should be a SQN of V-22s 24/7 manned and ready to fly to any corner of India AND a 1-2 C-130Js for any out of country contingencies/missions for A&N.

2) Continue this hub model as it already exists but provide all NSG hubs with an adequate number of medium lift helos (10 ton class) so they can fly to anywhere in their area of responsibility rapidly. The present limiting factor for the NSG's response time is going to be mobility and on Indian roads this is going to be most acute. These NSG teams in the hubs can be the same as current NSG operators ie on deputation from the IA for 3 years but the top 1-2% can be eligable to stay on and move to the main CT task force if vacancies exist.

It is a similar model to the SEALS (regular SEAL teams and then SEAL team 6 made up of the cream fo all SEAL teams)



Did the SRG operator happen to say anything else? I always wonder what kind of knowledge the SRG guys would have of the SAG.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> Agreed bro, I fully expect the NSG to keep making progress and commend them for their forward thinking in regards to their future soldier 2025 project. No way are they going to stand still in the interim whilst those technologies are developed though, and atleast the GoI does seem to be behind them.
> 
> Still think a number of strcutural changes need to happen though:
> 
> Thinking about the present day NSG structure and deployment patterns I think this model should be purused:
> 
> 
> 1) have a central team of career NSG operators (present deputation formula means all are on 3 year tenures), these can be the"Phantoms" ie the top socring NSG recruits can be the "main counter terror task force" (already exists in Delhi) made up of a self contained assualt unit with all support teams (EOD, K9, sniper, logistics etc) and support equipment (vehicles, supplies, ammo etc) deployed in a central location in India and co-located with them should be a SQN of V-22s 24/7 manned and ready to fly to any corner of India AND a 1-2 C-130Js for any out of country contingencies/missions for A&N.
> 
> 2) Continue this hub model as it already exists but provide all NSG hubs with an adequate number of medium lift helos (10 ton class) so they can fly to anywhere in their area of responsibility rapidly. The present limiting factor for the NSG's response time is going to be mobility and on Indian roads this is going to be most acute. These NSG teams in the hubs can be the same as current NSG operators ie on deputation from the IA for 3 years but the top 1-2% can be eligable to stay on and move to the main CT task force if vacancies exist.
> 
> It is a similar model to the SEALS (regular SEAL teams and then SEAL team 6 made up of the cream fo all SEAL teams)
> 
> 
> 
> Did the SRG operator happen to say anything else? I always wonder what kind of knowledge the SRG guys would have of the SAG.



Just about training and upgrades.Didnt have much time.Republic day is near so i get to see more of them.

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## Gessler

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Just about training and upgrades.Didnt have much time.Republic day is near so i get to see more of them.



Do try to get some details (regarding equipment etc.) the next time you meet him.


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
S-TAR 21 Mars red dot & Mepro MX3 Magnifier







NSG

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Gessler said:


> Do try to get some details (regarding equipment etc.) the next time you meet him.


I always do but its not easy..they have the mind of a spy..they give away very less.

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## foxtrot1

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> I always do but its not easy..they have the mind of a spy..they give away very less.


 and if you get don't post here.


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

foxtrot1 said:


> and if you get don't post here.


Although i dont get much and whatever i get i delay posting about it always.

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## Unknowncommando

6th PARA ( AIRBORNE)
Army Day
MINI UZI (Suppressed)
AK-47 with RDS
Uppercut ACH

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## Jamwal's

Replacement for Romanian and Russian AK


In Service

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## debspark90

@Jamwal's what is the status of this rifle in service?

Well these have been moded by FAB Defense on the same Romanian AK of IA

Here are the stock, upper and handguard

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## Jamwal's

debspark90 said:


> @Jamwal's what is the status of this rifle in service?
> 
> Well these have been moded by FAB Defense on the same Romanian AK of IA
> 
> Here are the stock, upper and handguard
> View attachment 371065
> View attachment 371066
> View attachment 371067


This is already inducted.

Same Romanian AK different configuration.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Jamwal's

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 371097
> View attachment 371098
> View attachment 371099
> View attachment 371089
> 
> NSG




Bhai 26 ka rainfall alert bhi ha

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## Unknowncommando

@Jamwal's @debspark90 In addition to that we have OFB GHAATAK
In service with infantry & GHATAK PLATOON
EoTech & Raptor mini-Reflex sight are mainly used on them.





NSG SAW LMG

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## debspark90

Unknowncommando said:


> In addition to that we have OFB GHAATAK
> In service with infantry & GHATAK PLATOON
> EoTech & Raptor mini-Reflex sight are mainly used on them.



Its very different from Ghatak, see the vertical angle of the gas block pipe above the barrel the Romanian AKS have slope angle just like any old AK. The Handguard looks same though. Stock can be changed

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## saumyasupratik

Balanced Iroquois, NSG and US Army SACPOC








Jamwal's said:


> Replacement for Romanian and Russian AK
> 
> 
> In Service
> 
> View attachment 370982




Romanian AK with FAB Defense UAS AK-P folding stock, Quadrail, PDC Picattiny dust cover, AGR-47 pistol grip. TFL-QR foregrip and Sightmark Ultra Short M-Spec FMS reflex sight.

Some other SF rifles.







Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 371107
> View attachment 371108
> 
> @Jamwal's @debspark90 In addition to that we have OFB GHAATAK
> In service with infantry & GHATAK PLATOON
> EoTech & Raptor mini-Reflex sight are mainly used on them.


Can't be a Ghatak because Ghatak is based on the INSAS and has the trigger bump present in the INSAS receiver.






Compare the trigger area with the second photo I've posted of civilians posing with SF weapons including the FAB defense modified Rom AK. Also the pistol grip and handguard/quadrail is different.

Another Optic being used is the Sightmark Sureshot (IADN photo on the AK and foreground Supressed Micro Uzi SF-CB)

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## Gessler

saumyasupratik said:


>



It's a good thing they decided to empty the chamber + remove the mags before handing them to this lot. They would have killed themselves and 10 others.

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## Abingdonboy

NSG prepare for R-Day parade:













See the ballistic sheild (as I have said in the past they have it, they just don't reguarly employ it as part of their SOPs)

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## debspark90

@Unknowncommando besides that this looks like the Bulgarian AK used by Paramilitary and not the Romanian one used by Army. The gas block and the stock are the indications.

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## debspark90

@Unknowncommando @Gessler @Jamwal's 
What a coincidence,
this pic from today's ongoing encounter and look at the rifle. Its the same AK Mod from FAB Defense. The soldier is most probably from 5RR.

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## Gessler

This is more or less the configuration (save for the magazine with slit-window) -






I've also noticed that the Israeli TFL-QR foregrip can be set in 7 positions for maximum comfort & grip while firing. In this picture it is seen set to point away from the shooter, the picture posted by @debspark90 above shows the RR soldier with his grip pointing toward himself (btw, did you all notice he has hard-knuckle gloves?)

PS - I'm glad they decided to go for the PDC upper, which is giving them a much longer P-rail section to mount multiple optics/attachments....instead of being limited to the small quadrails on the handguard.

@Unknowncommando @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @MilSpec

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Gessler said:


> This is more or less the configuration (save for the magazine with slit-window) -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also noticed that the Israeli TFL-QR foregrip can be set in 7 positions for maximum comfort & grip while firing. In this picture it is seen set to point away from the shooter, the picture posted by @debspark90 above shows the RR soldier with his grip pointing toward himself (btw, did you all notice he has hard-knuckle gloves?)
> 
> PS - I'm glad they decided to go for the PDC upper, which is giving them a much longer P-rail section to mount multiple optics/attachments....instead of being limited to the small quadrails on the handguard.
> 
> @Unknowncommando @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @MilSpec


I would have loved to see the bi-pod instead of the foregrip specially with the hybrid optics.


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
@debspark90 I was going to post the same pic. And see this one. Again one more coincidence. This time various attachments on AK series. Various types of rails & sights.
Night sight , victory z-point , EoTech.

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## Jamwal's

debspark90 said:


> View attachment 371297
> 
> 
> @Unknowncommando @Gessler @Jamwal's
> What a coincidence,
> this pic from today's ongoing encounter and look at the rifle. Its the same AK Mod from FAB Defense. The soldier is most probably from 5RR.

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG prepare for R-Day parade:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the ballistic sheild (as I have said in the past they have it, they just don't reguarly employ it as part of their SOPs)


Bro i have seen tender for ballistic Shields on NSG official sight tender section myself & most important thing was the tender was there for very few days. The selection of shield & procurement process took place quickly. And we have seen a pic of them with shield. There is no doubt about that they have it.





Various configurations










Marcos with Royal Marines

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## Unknowncommando

6 PARA







NSG

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## Abingdonboy

I had got it wrong, the SPG still use the X5 escort vehicles for the PM's offical motorcade:





(^R-day parade 2017 dress rehearsal)

However, they have replaced their TATA Safari escort vehicles in the "class b motorcade" with the Toyota Fortuner:

















The Class b motorcade used to feature TATA Safari escort vehicles (now Fortuner) whilst the class A features the X5 escort vehicles (the PM's offical vehicle is always the 7 series).

Interesting that the SPG is continuing with their X5s, they are over 9 years old now but I guess they are very well maintained.

++ If you notice, the SPG have actually increased the size of the PM's motorcade, previously there were 5-6 escort vehicles, now there are 8 (in addition to the TATA Safari based ECM vehicel, 2 7 series, Mercedes Sprinter ALS ambulance and 4 Delhi Police escort vehicles).

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## Abingdonboy

PARA (SF):

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
Vehicle belongs to CHETAK Commandos.

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## Lord Of Gondor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/824240364613570560Amazing news, Jai Hind.

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## Jamwal's

Abingdonboy said:


> PARA (SF):




Ye Zee news wali documentary ha Kya bhai ?

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## Crixus

I am still not sure how they differentiated the valour or sacrifice among the commondos who went for the raids .... I mean all went and came back .... if anyone knows what these who got awards did different.


Lord Of Gondor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/824240364613570560Amazing news, Jai Hind.


----------



## Lord Of Gondor

Crixus said:


> if anyone knows what these who got awards did different.


The citation will be telecast on DD tomorrow, tune in.


----------



## noksss

*Major Mohit Suri of the 4 para was awarded the Kirti Chakra, and five personnel who were part of the operation were awarded the Shaurya Chakra. *

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ded-yudh-seva-medals/articleshow/56781605.cms

Considering the fact that Terrorist are known to target highly successful officers why r they making the names public ?

@Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


----------



## Kailash Rava

N.S.G .... Simply wow

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## Crixus

Sure that will be helpful .


Lord Of Gondor said:


> The citation will be telecast on DD tomorrow, tune in.


----------



## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> *Major Mohit Suri of the 4 para was awarded the Kirti Chakra, and five personnel who were part of the operation were awarded the Shaurya Chakra. *
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ded-yudh-seva-medals/articleshow/56781605.cms
> 
> Considering the fact that Terrorist are known to target highly successful officers why r they making the names public ?
> 
> @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


This is insane..

Why not have PARA Commandos march also then?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

OMfrickengod dude, I know this has been said a million times before, but sometimes I cant believe they were this not too long ago --








I remember Tavors were starting to show in 09, now it's everywhere.

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## Gessler

Water Car Engineer said:


> OMfrickengod dude, I know this has been said a million times before, but sometimes I cant believe they were this not too long ago --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember Tavors were starting to show in 09, now it's everywhere.



Nothing like a little push to get things going.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Water Car Engineer said:


> OMfrickengod dude, I know this has been said a million times before, but sometimes I cant believe they were this not too long ago --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember Tavors were starting to show in 09, now it's everywhere.


We Indians learn our lessons late..but when we do we can change a lot.

8 years since no such terror attack happened.

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

One of a kind video released by Indian Army.

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## Lord Of Gondor

> The Army did not release the citations of the awarded personnel. An official source said: “Every citation contains the description of the qualifying act, and putting that out will let everything be known about the operation, including tactics. Special Forces operations have to be kept secret. We also did not release citations for gallantry awards after the operations in Myanmar in 2015.”


http://indianexpress.com/article/in...who-carried-out-loc-surgical-strikes-4492000/

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Jamwal's

Happy Republic Day Y'all - Jai Hind

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## bloo

debspark90 said:


> View attachment 371297
> 
> 
> @Unknowncommando @Gessler @Jamwal's
> What a coincidence,
> this pic from today's ongoing encounter and look at the rifle. Its the same AK Mod from FAB Defense. The soldier is most probably from 5RR.



That thing is pimped out.



COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> This is insane..
> 
> Why not have PARA Commandos march also then?



Well, they must be busy doing their "thing".


----------



## ranjeet



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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> One of a kind video released by Indian Army.



We as a nation are always indebted to such brave hearts not sure how many more such brave hearts we are goanna lose in this Pakistan sponsored proxy war . Rest In Peace legend

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Abingdonboy

SPG Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members:
























Modi walks along Rajpath (again):



























Seemed the SPG were expecting it this year

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## Abingdonboy

contd...

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## Mustang06

Talk about having a morning walk.


Abingdonboy said:


> contd...

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## Abingdonboy



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

The only other ones to get as loud cheer as Modi was the NSG.

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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Unknowncommando

Modiji & SPG

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## Abingdonboy

NSG

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## Water Car Engineer

Ghatak

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## Unknowncommando

Marine Commando

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## danish_vij

i was there at republic day parade......NSG looked just amazing even got opportunity to talk to them...they are very cool, i would have clicked picture but....errrrrrrrr..they police lady who provided us with passes strictly mentioned no cellphones allowed and upon reaching there i came to know cellphones are allowed

i was sitting in enclosure no. 3(total 30) and when the sukhoi performed the vertical charlie our lot was lucky enough to see afterburner in action and those flames turning into blue just 300m above ground followed by a lightening sound from coming storm(it seemed like jet took a vertical right above enclosure no 4&5)..what my eyes saw that day was best of sukhoi, no video on internet as of now depicts what i saw just 300m above and that afterburner in action

saw 2 rudras and 2 dhruvs in formation and the best part was when we saw just 3 yellow lights in sky and mi35 appearing out of fog from side of rashtrapati bhavan

security was pretty tight u could clearly see NSG snipers on top of "le Maridien" & other buildings
*
PS: wish i had my dslr or phone at least...i would have died a happy man...*

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## Abingdonboy

danish_vij said:


> i was there at republic day parade......NSG looked just amazing even got opportunity to talk to them...they are very cool, i would have clicked picture but....errrrrrrrr..they police lady who provided us with passes strictly mentioned no cellphones allowed and upon reaching there i came to know cellphones are allowed
> 
> i was sitting in enclosure no. 3(total 30) and when the sukhoi performed the vertical charlie our lot was lucky enough to see afterburner in action and those flames turning into blue just 300m above ground followed by a lightening sound from coming storm(it seemed like jet took a vertical right above enclosure no 4&5)..what my eyes saw that day was best of sukhoi, no video on internet as of now depicts what i saw just 300m above and that afterburner in action
> 
> saw 2 rudras and 2 dhruvs in formation and the best part was when we saw just 3 yellow lights in sky and mi35 appearing out of fog from side of rashtrapati bhavan
> 
> security was pretty tight u could clearly see NSG snipers on top of "le Maridien" & other buildings
> *
> PS: wish i had my dslr or phone at least...i would have died a happy man...*


Were the NSG guys you got to talk to taking part in the parade or were they on duty providing security?


+ No mention of the SPG? 

------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------

Garuds:

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Snipers




NSG Marching

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Hindustani78

Anti-bomb squad of the NSG at the spot where the mortar was found (Express photo by Abhinav Saha)
Updated: January 28, 2017 2:18 pm

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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

PM visits NCC parade 2017:
















































Can see members of the Counter Assualt Team (CAT) disembarking:





^ AFAIK CAT members travel in 2 escort vehicles (one at the front of the motorcade, one at the rear)

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## Abingdonboy

PM at R-Day parade 2017:


















SPG Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members:

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## Crixus

SPG is too secretive and its rare of get the glimpse  thanks for sharing 


Abingdonboy said:


> PM at R-Day parade 2017:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPG Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members:

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## Abingdonboy

Crixus said:


> SPG is too secretive and its rare of get the glimpse  thanks for sharing


I share your frustrations bro but considering the threat perception of an Indian PM I think it is more than understandable that they are as secretive as possible.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Unknowncommando



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## G0dfather

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 372665
> View attachment 372666
> View attachment 372667
> View attachment 372668
> View attachment 372669
> View attachment 372670
> View attachment 372671
> View attachment 372672
> 
> NSG Commandos



Great.

On 26th Jan, 5 A.M , requested a NSG guy on duty for a selfie but he refused straight forward.

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## danish_vij

Abingdonboy said:


> Were the NSG guys you got to talk to taking part in the parade or were they on duty providing security?
> 
> 
> + No mention of the SPG?


The guys i talked to were taking part in parade....the guys who were part of security weren't seen on ground much, only on building tops

i was sitting in enclosure no 3 and it was on the side of presidents house so didn't get a chance to see even PM's convoy  so no spg
but i think i saw a single spg vehicle and guys in formals(in vehicle) at end of President's convoy..their windows were down.

next year i will try to arrange VIP passes in advance..this time i was too late so i only got these normal passes 10 hours before the parade..

ill suggest whenever u come to India please come and watch this parade

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## Abingdonboy

danish_vij said:


> but i think i saw a single spg vehicle and guys in formals(in vehicle) at end of President's convoy..their windows were down.


They would be Delhi Police.




danish_vij said:


> ill suggest whenever u come to India please come and watch this parade


Yup bro, it is on my bucket list for sure!

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 372665
> View attachment 372666
> View attachment 372667
> View attachment 372668
> View attachment 372669
> View attachment 372670
> View attachment 372671
> View attachment 372672
> 
> NSG Commandos


ADIDAS there.






200 fucking Euro Boot!

Talk of funding..

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## G0dfather

danish_vij said:


> The guys i talked to were taking part in parade....the guys who were part of security weren't seen on ground much, only on building tops
> 
> i was sitting in enclosure no 3 and it was on the side of presidents house so didn't get a chance to see even PM's convoy  so no spg
> but i think i saw a single spg vehicle and guys in formals(in vehicle) at end of President's convoy..their windows were down.
> 
> next year i will try to arrange VIP passes in advance..this time i was too late so i only got these normal passes 10 hours before the parade..
> 
> ill suggest whenever u come to India please come and watch this parade



One NSG guy was standing on Feroze Shah road along with Delhi police personnels while 3-4 were standing around enclosure no 29 and 20.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG SAG




Para SF

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 372784
> 
> NSG SAG



One of the few clear pictures of SPAS-15 in NSG service. Save it, people.

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## Abingdonboy

PM arriving at Beating Retreat ceremony 2017:



























First time I have seen the PM's vehicle with its emergency lights on in India and the first time I have ever seen the X5 escort vehicles with their emergency lights on:

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## Abingdonboy

SPG Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members during the Beating Retreat ceremony 2017:

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## Bornubus



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## Abingdonboy

Modi walking down Rajpath on R-day 2017:





























Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members of SPG:


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## Abingdonboy

Modi at R-day parade 2017:

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## Abingdonboy

PM at Beating Retreat 2017:

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## Water Car Engineer



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## noksss

Among the 22 soldiers who were honoured on Republic Day for their roles in the surgical strikes against Pakistan,* the top award of the Kirti Chakra, the second-highest peacetime decoration, was conferred upon a Major, who killed four people (terrorists and possibly their Pakistani Army handlers, according to sources) in close combat.*

The army sources today said that the Major was "the mission leader" of a team assigned to destroy terrorist staging areas across the Line of Control in Kashmir, and that he blueprinted the top-secret operation after a detailed reconnaissance and analysis of data available on the shortlisted targets in Azad Kashmir.

*"Major (name withheld) along with his buddy closed in and neutralized two sentries in the open," the army said. The Major, who was the commander of a strike team leading the operations from the front, went on to eliminate two other enemies as well.*

The surgical strikes were conducted by India on September 29 in retaliation for the deadly attack, weeks earlier, on the Uri army base in Kashmir, where 19 military personnel were killed.



Details of the surgical strikes have so far been kept totally classified. How many soldiers took part has not been publicly shared. A combination of ground forces and para commandos were involved. Army sources said that the soldiers trekked starting at midnight upto two kilometres into Azad Kashmir. They returned before dawn, after killing dozens of terrorists who were planning strikes in major Indian metros.

*Now, army sources, offering some information, said that after the troops "infiltrated" the areas they were to target, meeting or rendezvous points were established where they were to regroup after the operation was completed. "Diversionary tactics" or faking activity in an area to mislead opponents were likely used, they said. After a "commando base" was established, the soldiers broke into pre-assigned groups. One isolated and blocked potential escape points for targets, while also cutting off any routes that could have been used for reinforcements for the terrorists. The other group established a "fire base" from where rocket-propelled grenades, assault rifles and mortars and missiles could be used. Typically, this sort of group destroys the target after the assault party or first group has gone in, provides backup for the first group, extricates soldiers who need help or may be cornered, and can turn into an alternate assault group, if that becomes necessary.*

*The Major was leading an assault party that silently took out enemy sentries and then launched the full-blown assault on the terrorist target. These soldiers took out terrorists and Pakistani Army regular handlers. A total of 10 people were killed by the Major's team, said sources.* After that, he directed the fire base to destroy the terrorist launch pad. Members of his team then met at the "rendezvous points" and returned home.


http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/in-c...e-they-killed-4-1654126?pfrom=home-topstories

@Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> Among the 22 soldiers who were honoured on Republic Day for their roles in the surgical strikes against Pakistan,* the top award of the Kirti Chakra, the second-highest peacetime decoration, was conferred upon a Major, who killed four people (terrorists and possibly their Pakistani Army handlers, according to sources) in close combat.*
> 
> The army sources today said that the Major was "the mission leader" of a team assigned to destroy terrorist staging areas across the Line of Control in Kashmir, and that he blueprinted the top-secret operation after a detailed reconnaissance and analysis of data available on the shortlisted targets in Azad Kashmir.
> 
> *"Major (name withheld) along with his buddy closed in and neutralized two sentries in the open," the army said. The Major, who was the commander of a strike team leading the operations from the front, went on to eliminate two other enemies as well.*
> 
> The surgical strikes were conducted by India on September 29 in retaliation for the deadly attack, weeks earlier, on the Uri army base in Kashmir, where 19 military personnel were killed.
> 
> 
> 
> Details of the surgical strikes have so far been kept totally classified. How many soldiers took part has not been publicly shared. A combination of ground forces and para commandos were involved. Army sources said that the soldiers trekked starting at midnight upto two kilometres into Azad Kashmir. They returned before dawn, after killing dozens of terrorists who were planning strikes in major Indian metros.
> 
> *Now, army sources, offering some information, said that after the troops "infiltrated" the areas they were to target, meeting or rendezvous points were established where they were to regroup after the operation was completed. "Diversionary tactics" or faking activity in an area to mislead opponents were likely used, they said. After a "commando base" was established, the soldiers broke into pre-assigned groups. One isolated and blocked potential escape points for targets, while also cutting off any routes that could have been used for reinforcements for the terrorists. The other group established a "fire base" from where rocket-propelled grenades, assault rifles and mortars and missiles could be used. Typically, this sort of group destroys the target after the assault party or first group has gone in, provides backup for the first group, extricates soldiers who need help or may be cornered, and can turn into an alternate assault group, if that becomes necessary.*
> 
> *The Major was leading an assault party that silently took out enemy sentries and then launched the full-blown assault on the terrorist target. These soldiers took out terrorists and Pakistani Army regular handlers. A total of 10 people were killed by the Major's team, said sources.* After that, he directed the fire base to destroy the terrorist launch pad. Members of his team then met at the "rendezvous points" and returned home.
> 
> 
> http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/in-c...e-they-killed-4-1654126?pfrom=home-topstories
> 
> @Abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR


Not to forget 3 PAK ARMY INFANTRYMEN died followed by 2 in hospital.

Even the ones who claim the surgical strike to be fake  accept the death of their 3 soldiers.

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## Bornubus

Narender Berwal Indian Army Boxer (services ) who defeated Pak Army Boxer Ahmad Ali Khan in World Military Games 2015







https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/66255-ahmed-loses-to-indian-boxer-in-military-world-games


Services Boxers from NE

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## Bornubus

SFF

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## Hindustani78

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...uards-to-get-training-at-nsgs-centre-4500736/

the Madhya Pradesh jail department has decided to send its guards for rigorous commando training to a centre of NSG, India’s premier counter-terrorism outfit. “We have sent the first batch of 21 jail guards to National Security Guard (NSG) training centre for the special commando training. More guards would be given this training in future,” MP’s Director General (Jails) Sanjay Choudhary told PTI on Tuesday.

“The department has planned to provide NSG training to 50 jail guards,” he said. Choudhary said the trained guards would be posted in different jails of the state, as per the requirement.

Another jail department official said the guards would undergo a three-month rigorous training at the NSG’s centre in Manesar, Haryana. The decision to train the guards was taken in the wake of Bhopal jailbreak incident and to enhance the security of the prisons.

“The special training to jail guards would boost the security of the jails. Initially, they would be posted in central jails. These guards were selected for training on the basis of their age and fitness,” he said.


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## Abingdonboy

PM at Beating Retreat 2017:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not to forget 3 PAK ARMY INFANTRYMEN died followed by 2 in hospital.
> 
> Even the ones who claim the surgical strike to be fake  accept the death of their 3 soldiers.


Sources for 5 troops? 

Ironically all international sources and media outlets who reported from the areas took a shyt on your claims.. however in those days lots of indian troops were dispatched ... with videos showin PA hittin em with with ATGMs...

As for sar gi kaal strike... bc even indians themselves doubt it... let alone bbc,cnn,AJ and others who visited those areas...


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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Not to forget 3 PAK ARMY INFANTRYMEN died followed by 2 in hospital.
> 
> Even the ones who claim the surgical strike to be fake  accept the death of their 3 soldiers.



Any more info u have regarding the casualties on their side and is it true that Ghatak's was also involved in the operation ?


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Gypsies & Sherpa in background

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF with Sri Lankan SF

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## Bornubus

Para Special Forces (old Pic)


Vz 58 Rifles

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## Abingdonboy

Not SF but member of INS Kolkata's security/force protection team:

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## Water Car Engineer



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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Holy ****..

I got to see the Renault Sherpa next to my jeep..

Man,it is such an awesome machine..

It made my modified Mahindra Thar with lift kit,suspension and big *** tyres look so puny!

What a day...got to shake hands with some operators without mask in plain clothes.

Better than valentines day for sure!

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## Bornubus



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS in Kashmir

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Snipers During R-Day Parade

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## Unknowncommando

Desert SCORPIONS

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## bloo

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 374247
> 
> MARCOS in Kashmir



Can we not blur out the faces?

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## hkdas

marcos (from 10:23 to 20:30) during navy demo in Vijayawada






from 0:00 to 11:31

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## Hindustani78

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/bhopal-jail-guards-fail-nsg-training-return-4508362/

Written by Milind Ghatwai | Bhopal | Published:February 5, 2017 1:49 am 

Twenty-one jail guards from Bhopal Central Jail sent for National Security Guard (NSG) training could not clear the first round of screening at the training centre. Seven of them were sent back for not meeting the age criteria, while the rest were asked to go because they were not fit for the physically-demanding course. Further, the NSG facility at Manesar, Haryana, was full.

No other jail department in the country has sent its guards for NSG training, but authorities felt there was a need for fitter guards after eight SIMI activists escaped the Bhopal Central Jail on October 31 .

Admitting that all 21 guards have come back, ADG (jail) G R Meena said, “The training requires the participants to run 18 km, climb a 60-foot pole carrying 15-kg weight, climb down without stopping and then jump from a height of 25 feet, all within a time limit.’’

The jail administration has now decided to provide training by creating a facility near the jail premises and make the guards fit enough to be selected for the training at NSG. In the absence of such conditioning they would have suffered injuries, they were told at Manesar. In all 30 guards will now apply again in July.


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## Unknowncommando




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## bloo

Hindustani78 said:


> Admitting that all 21 guards have come back, ADG (jail) G R Meena said, “The training requires the participants to run 18 km, climb a 60-foot pole carrying 15-kg weight, climb down without stopping and then jump from a height of 25 feet, all within a time limit.’’



I can't imagine how it would look when the Laurel and Hardys of Indian police were trying to keep up with the NSG.


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Hindustani78



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## Trumpcard

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 372620
> 
> NSG


Amazing click! Our NSG look bad-***!



Abingdonboy said:


> Modi at R-day parade 2017:



Always wondered whats in the handbag that a SPG officer always carries next to the PM (last pic)- Nuclear codes?

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## Lord Of Gondor

> By Manas Paul
> _First published in TripuraInfo.in _
> _13 Dec, 2010_
> Forty years ago in 1971 on a cool and scary November 14 night in Chittagong a Pakistani sniper of Special Service Group perched silently on his hidden location near his camp felt he saw a ‘phantom’. The days were then uncertain and nights were too risky. So, the Pakistani soldier did not take any chance and opened fire. And the shadowy creatures just melted away in the darkness. One among them was, however, dying. He was shot at fatally. The Pakistani soldier did not know that he had just killed one of the toughest and CIA trained Tibetan guerrilla leaders — Dhondup Gyatotsang. As Gyatotsang — a Dapon or Brigadier in Tibetan language — died his comrades, all armed simply with a Bulgarian AK 47 and their Tibetan knives, made radio contact with a turbaned Sikh some kilometres away and across the border. The Sikh barked at them the order: carry on with the task you are assigned to. As the order came the Tibetan guerrillas once again spread in the darkness and coiled up behind the Pakistani barracks and posts. They remained as shadows as long as they wanted and when the right time came they just struck with lightning speed raiding the Pak positions. One after another Pakistani posts fell as the Tibetans, who by this gained the title ‘Phantoms of Chittagong’, swept the hills and valleys of the hilly district of East Pakistan and restrained the Pakistani military movement to only small pockets. Weeks before the real war actually broke out on December 3rd, the Tibetan guerrillas turned Chittagong into a virtually a free zone with pre-emptive strikes for Indian army movement. On December 16, 1971 when the Pakistani army surrendered, the Tibetan commandos were only 40 km from the Chittagong Port. By this time they had successfully accomplished the task that their chief, General Sujan Singh Uban had assigned to them: The Operation Mountain Eagle. They had, however, lost 49 of their comrades and had 190 injured.
> 
> ‘Operation Mountain Eagle’ launched in East Pakistan during 1971 Indo-Pak War was, perhaps, till date the most closely guarded and top most secret operation of Indian authorities in the eastern flank of the war areas. Officially the operation could not be recognized as the Tibetan guerrilla force — known as Special Frontier Force (SFF) or Establishment 22 or simply called ‘two-two’ — does not officially exists. The name it got from the fact that their first commander (at the rank of Inspector General) Maj. Gen. Sujan Singh Uban had once commanded 22 Mountain brigade. Since their inception in November 1962, the Establishment 22’s direct engagement in Indo-Pak war is also significant for the mere fact that it was not their ‘war’ at all. They were fighting for the cause of their host country and for liberation of another country — not for Tibet. Their sacrifice was never officially or publicly recognized — neither by India nor by Bangladesh till today.
> *Formation of top secret force, Two-Two
> *
> At the end of the 1962 Indo-China war the then Intelligence Bureau chief Bhola Nath Mullick took the initiative to form a special guerrilla force from the Tibetan youths who had been sheltered in India. Some documents indicate that former Chief Minister of Orissa Biju Patnaik had first come up with the idea while he was closely working with the CIA at the behest of Indian authorities in setting up of air surveillance ARC in Charbatia in his home state. Patnaik, a daredevil pilot with experience in several covert operations, according to Kenneth Conboy who authored an authoritative book on CIA operations relating to Tibet, wanted to raise a resistance force of Tibetans in Assam. However, the IB continued with the plan which ultimately materialized with the help of Chushi Gandruk, the main organization of the Khampa resistance and the CIA.
> Following the green signal from the Cabinet secretariat the Special Frontier Force or Establishment 22 or was formed on November 14, 1962.
> According to the plan the force would formed with Khampa fighters from Chushi Gandruk — and most of them would be brought from CIA run Mustang base in Nepal that housed as many as 2032 members. The force would be handled and trained by the IB at their Chakrata base near Dehra Dun. The CIA would provide all other supports for their training and related matters.
> The CIA had first trained the Khampa fighters at Saipan in March 1957 and then Camp Hale in Colorado for guerrilla warfare so that they could be dropped inside Tibet for sabotage against the Chinese. The operation under the code name of ‘ST Circus’ was first headed by a US marine, Roger McCarthy. They trained in several batches about 259 Tibetan guerrillas. The CIA had also dropped some of them inside Tibet for sabotage and intelligence gathering.
> “A formation agreement was signed in 1962. The parties to this formation agreement were the Indian Intelligence Service, the CIA and Chushi Gangdruk. General Gonpo Tashi Andrutsang and Jago Namgyal Dorjee, signed this three-party joint formation agreement on behalf of Chushi Gangdruk. Our organization took main responsibility for recruiting, and an initial strength of 12,000 men, mostly Khampas, were recruited at Chakrata, Dehra Dun, UP. Chushi Gangdruk sent two of the commanders to this new outfit to be political leaders in the initial stage”, said Dokham Chushi Gangdruk, the Tibetan organization fighting for the Tibetan cause.
> Gyalo Thondup, elder brother of the Dalai Lama met the Khampas in Mustang. Conboy said, ‘Gyalo also sought four political leaders who could act as the force’s indigenous officer cadre….an initial contingent of Tibetans, led by Jamba Kalden, was dispatched to the hill town of Dehra Dun’.
> Soon, the CIA, sent eight of its advisers on a six-month temporary duty assignment. The team was led by a veteran CIA operative in several covert and deadly campaigns Wayne Sanford who was recipient of two Purple Hearts. “He was acting undercover from US Embassy as special assistant to Ambassador John Kenneth Galbraith”, wrote Conboy.
> The USA provided all the weaponry to them mostly M-1, M-2 and M-3 automatic rifles. As the covert guerrilla force was raised, Major General Sujan Singh Uban was assigned the task to command them as their Inspector General. The SFF ultimately came to be known as ‘Establishment 22′ or simply ‘Two-two’. Interestingly, the guerrilla forces cap insignia was designed as if it was ‘12th Gorkha’ regiment-crossed khukri with ‘12′ on top. This was a deception tactics as at that time there were only 11 Gorkha regiments, seven regiments were with Indian army and four with the British after independence. It was so decided to confuse common people, in case of meeting the guerrillas, with Gorkhas as the facial features were same.
> For next several years both Indian army, MARCOS, IB and CIA trained the guerrillas with special focus on para-trooping and sabotage as well as intelligence collection it was kept in mind that in case of another war with China they would be pressed into service. Some of the Camp Hale trained Tibetans were also included in the Establishment 22 and they held senior positions. They ultimately became one of best ever guerrilla forces in the world, efficient in land, air and water campaigns. While the ‘Establishment 22′ was commanded by Maj. Gen. Uban, the guerrillas had their own political representatives and Dapon — a position equivalent to ‘Brigadier’ — mostly held by first generation Camp Hale trained guerrillas.
> The Dalai Lama was aware of the formation of the guerrilla force since the beginning but he and his Dharamshala officials always maintained a distance from them neither supporting nor opposing the Indian initiative. According to some, Jawaharlal Nehru once visited the guerrillas in Chakrata and was impressed by their training and discipline. The Dalai lama also visited them once but it was much later.
> Until late 1960 the CIA officials had kept relations with the Establishment 22 on numerous levels, but since 1968 their connections with the Tibetan guerrillas both in Mustang and Chakrata started thinning. CIA link with Chakrata completely died out in 1970s. The USA under Richard Nixon tilted towards Pakistan and also developed secret negotiations with China as Indo-Pakistan war seemed imminent.
> *Operation Mountain Eagle*
> Since the RAW headed by R. N. Kau was created on 21 September, 1968 the responsibility of the Establishment 22 also went to the agency. But their chief Maj. Gen. Uban had been worried at the way the trained commandos — as many as 64 companies, divided into eight battalions having six companies each and including other support units — were gathering moss in their Chakrata camps. They were not used against China or Pakistan for any real armed combat and the IG was worried that inaction and absence of field operations might reduce the morale and capabilities.
> It was at that time the East Pakistan went up in flames with Pakistan army resorting to large scale massacres and rape on March 25, 1971 as ‘Operation Searchlight’. Two days later Major Zia Ur Rehman — a Bengali military officer with the Pakistan army announced ‘independence’ in Chittagong radio and attacked the Pakistani army cantonment. Within a day, many more military officers followed and millions of refugees poured into India to flee the Pakistani Army’s massacres and rapes. India was playing the card well and Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was successful in garnering massive international support, barring USA and China of course, for the brutalized East Pakistani Bengali population. By this time Mukti Bahini was formed from the refugee youths sheltered in Indian states for launching guerrilla wars and intelligence collections inside East Pakistan against the Pakistani forces. The idea was to create a pre-emptive strike force before the Indian regular army moved in after the rainy season was over.
> Incidentally, Maj. Gen. Uban was entrusted with the overall task for training of the Bengali forces like Mukti Bahini and Mujib Bahini.
> Maj. Gen. Uban did not miss the chance and moved New Delhi to send his Tibetan forces to East Pakistan who, according to him were already better trained and itching for an operation. After initial hesitation Indira Gandhi agreed to use the Tibetans, but sent the ball to the court of the Tibetans.
> Writes Tashi Dhundup, in article titled ‘Not their own Wars‘, “Indira Gandhi in the lead-up to the SFF’s deployment, Indira Gandhi wired a message to the Tibetan fighters, conveyed through their Indian commander: ‘We cannot compel you to fight a war for us,’ Gandhi wrote, “but the fact is that General A. A. K. Niazi (the Pakistan Army commander in East Pakistan) is treating the people of East Pakistan very badly. India has to do something about it. In a way, it is similar to the way the Chinese are treating the Tibetans in Tibet, we are facing a similar situation. It would be appreciated if you could help us fight the war for liberating the people of Bangladesh.”
> Following the letter the senior commanders of the Establishment 22 guerrillas discussed and agreed to help the Bengalis of East Pakistan to achieve their new nation Bangladesh.
> The Operation Mountain Eagle was launched in a second cool November night, apparently avoiding the Eastern Command directly by the RAW.
> It was sometime in third week of October 1971 that one of the most top secret armed campaigns against the Pakistan army in East Pakistan, the Operation Mountain Eagle, was quietly launched. More than 3000 Tibetan commandos from Establishment 22 were dropped at an obscure and extreme border village Demagiri in Mizoram. The Indian secret services used AN 12 plane from the ARC to bring the guerrillas by night sorties. Demagiri which was located across the river Karnafulli and Chittagong Hill Tracts in East Pakistan was by that time was crowded with refugees. The Tibetan stayed incognito with the refugees for sometimes and then began small hit-and-run raids into East Pakistan. They would cross the river and, strike a Pakistani force and return to Dimagiri. In the second week of November, 1971, the Tibetan guerrillas led by Dapon Dhondup Gyatotsang crossed the river using nine canoes and went inside East Pakistan to launch a decisive guerrilla campaign. Since the Establishment 22 or SFF did not officially exist, Indian authorities could deny any complicity in any eventuality. The fighters were armed with them Bulgarian AK 47s instead of Russian ones. On the very first night they ran over a Pakistani post. Within hours next morning they captured one more post and they kept on sweeping and then stopped — for sometime — when their Dapon was shot dead. But again, they swung into action.
> The task to Establishment 22 was clear: blow up Kaptai dam, damage the Pakistani military positions and kill as many Pak soldiers — at that time nicknamed ‘Khan Sena’– as possible, destroy the bridges, military infrastructures, and restrain the Pakistani military movement. Divided in three columns their hit and run modus operandi and the task specified were to create a situation that when the Indian army would move, they could march through the Chittagong hills and plains without much resistance from the Pakistanis.
> According to specialists on the subject the Establishment 22 guerrillas were extremely successful in their campaign. At that time the Pakistani 97th Independent Brigade and their 2nd commando battalion of SSG were positioned strategically in Chittagong. The guerrillas successfully restrained them in their respective positions and also cut off all the routes that the Pakistani soldiers thought of opening towards Burma. In fact the Pakistani soldiers were seeing ghosts in all the shadows and they were fighting against merciless ghosts who were always on the prowl, would swoop down from nowhere and mercilessly eliminate them and destroy the posts and would immediately vanish for their next target. Within one month of their operations, the Tibetan guerrillas virtually cleaned up the Chittagong area and when the Indian army moved in they did not face much resistance at all.
> “About one-third of its full strength was developed adjacent to the Chittagong Hill Tracts as Mukti Bahini. They captured many towns and garrisons in the Chittagong Hill Tracts in continuous fighting of about one month”, according to Dokham Chushi Gangdruk.
> In fact Maj. Gen. Uban and his guerrillas were keen to capture the Chittagong Port. They were very close and Pakistan army were not at all in a position to stop them. But Indian military and other authorities were not ready to assign them with the task as, though it would have been easier for the guerrillas to capture the Port, to keep it under their control they would have needed heavy artillery weapons — which they did not have with them.
> Tibetan troops of SFF after victory in Chittagong where they conducted clandestine operations during 1971 war. They are equipped with Bulgarian variants of AK-47 and M-1 Garand rifles supplied by the USA. (© Elite Forces of India and Pakistan)
> According to a document, when the Chittagong Port was captured by Indian military, the guerrillas were then asked to sit quiet about 40 kms away. However, on December 16 when the Pakistan army surrendered at Dhaka, the Phantoms of Establishment 22, for the first time in their history, came out in the open on the Chittagong road, rejoicing the victory of India over Pakistan. The common people were stunned by their sudden appearance — happy and rejoicing — virtually from nowhere, Even many Indian soldiers, who were also not aware of their presence in the vicinity were taken by surprise. But soon Maj. Gen. Uban was informed about the public appearance of the Tibetans on the Chittagong streets and he ordered them back to the shadows. They were never seen again. Their happy moment in public was only for some hours.
> Though the Tibetan guerrillas were arguably the main force that played the key role in Chittagong in the 1971 war, — sacrificing 49 (according to Tibetans’ estimate 56) including one of their top leader and 190 injured, they could not be officially recognized.
> “The Indian government gave awards to 580 members of the force for their active involvement and bravery in the battles. The contribution made by Establishment 22 in liberating East Pakistan was great and the price paid by the force was also high”, said Dokham Chusi Gandruk, the New York based organization.
> It then added: “(The fight and sacrifice) would have been of great value had it been used against communist China, the intended enemy….The SFF never had a chance of being used in operations against its intended enemy, Red China, but it was used against East Pakistan with the consent of His Holiness the Dalai Lama in 1971″.
> It is, however, a different story that the Establishment 22 was later used in many Indian operations including in Operation Blue Star, Siachen, Kargil. They are also being used as a main anti-terrorist force in many parts of the country. According to a report, in between Indira Gandhi’s assassination and the formation of SPG, it was these Establishment 22 commandos who were in charge of the protection of the Gandhi family. But in all the cases down the decades they remained unsung heroes — the ‘unknown’ warriors from a different country who fought and sacrificed for others.


http://claudearpi.blogspot.in/2011/01/phantoms-of-chittagong.html
Sorry if it's a repost.


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## Abingdonboy

Trumpcard said:


> Always wondered whats in the handbag that a SPG officer always carries next to the PM (last pic)- Nuclear codes?


A collapsed Kevlar sheild.

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## egodoc222

Trumpcard said:


> Amazing click! Our NSG look bad-***!
> 
> 
> 
> Always wondered whats in the handbag that a SPG officer always carries next to the PM (last pic)- Nuclear codes?


It's a Kevlar briefcase shield!!

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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
07-February, 2017 11:25 IST
*International Counter Terrorism Seminar to be held tomorrow *

The Minister of State for Information and Broadcasting Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore will be the Chief Guest at the 17th International Seminar on Counter Terrorism, being organised by National Security Guard, at Manesar, Haryana tomorrow.

The theme of the two-day seminar is synergizing the national and international Special Forces to meet challenges of terrorism and Improvised Explosive Devices (IED).

The seminar will focus on various challenges of terrorism, such as countering the growing IED menace, global terror threats and the need for international cooperation to fight the scourge collectively. During the event, a Counter Terrorism Expo is being organized to showcase the latest equipment in the field of counter terrorism.

***

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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
08-February, 2017 15:53 IST
*17th International Counter Terrorism Seminar held today *

Terrorists take advantage of element of surprise if we live in isolation, says Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore 


The Minister of State for Information and Broadcasting Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore inaugurated the 17th International Seminar on Counter Terrorism, being organised by National Security Guard, in Manesar, Haryana today.

Speaking on the occasion, Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore said that terrorism is a global threat and the footprint of terrorism does not restrict to any border. He said that there should be proper coordination between the agencies within the country, as well as between the countries, because terrorists take advantage of element of surprise if we live in isolation The Minister said that now the focus should be more on Improvised Explosive Devices (IED).

The Minister said that the outcome of the seminar should be shared among the different agencies, to develop intelligence and also use the knowledge for safety and security. He said that there should be collaboration in intelligence, strategy and technology. He appreciated the Ministry of Home Affairs and Ministry of Defence for keeping pace with other countries in terms of modernising the forces.

The Minister unveiled the NSG annual magazine ‘The Bombshell’, which contains details of various IED explosions that occurred in various parts of the world in 2016.

Earlier, Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore also inaugurated the Niranjan Auditorium, in memory of Lt Col. Niranjan Kumar, who laid down his life during the Pathankot attack in 2016.

During the day, two sessions were held to discuss on the manifestation of IED threats in the last decade and the global cooperation to mitigate IED menace.

The Minister of State for External Affairs Shri M. J. Akbar will deliver the keynote address on the second day of 17th International NSG Seminar at Manekshaw Centre, New Delhi tomorrow.


***

The Minister of State for Information & Broadcasting, Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore inaugurating the Niranjan Auditorium, during the 17th International Counter Terrorism Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard, at Manesar, Haryana on February 08, 2017.





The Minister of State for Information & Broadcasting, Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore at the 17th International Counter Terrorism Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard, at Manesar, Haryana on February 08, 2017. The DG, NSG, Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh is also seen.

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## Hindustani78

The Minister of State for External Affairs, Shri M.J. Akbar addressing at the 17th International Counter Terrorism Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard, in New Delhi on February 09, 2017. The DG, NSG, Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh is also seen.





Women performing yoga during 17th International Counter Terrorism Seminar at NSG premises in Gurugram.

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## Hindustani78

*A fully prepared NSG commando wears body gears weighing around 28kg. The new helmet design could potentially increase add to the weight of the gear. (Raj K Raj/HT File Photo)*
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...lass-visors/story-261hlANN4cWHqT1llx5j9L.html

Elite counter-terror commando force, the National Security Guard (NSG), has procured new military ballistic helmet with glass visor to save its personnel from head and face bullet or splinter injuries.

During the Pathankot airbase attack, Rajesh Negi, a commando of the NSG, received splinter injury in eye due to grenade explosion nearby leading to vision impairment. 

Weighing around 2.5 kg, these helmets can withstand 9mm bullet fire and they cost around Rs 6,500 per piece. 

“The glass visor of the helmet can withstand at least a bullet without getting shattered, even if the fire has come from close range,” said an officer of the NSG who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Communication devices can be installed inside the helmet for commandos to stay in touch with their team member during an operation.

A fully prepared NSG commando wears body gears weighing around 28kg. Though the helmet may increase the overall weight of body gear but it gives huge advantage by keeping his head and face secure.

The earlier helmets didn’t come equipped with bullet-proof glass which could break. Other safety gear for head, called bullet-proof Patka is used to cover only the head.

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

A rare footage of Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) deployment in Ladakh area.






A rare footage of Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) deployment in Ladakh area.

Fifty percent of locations where shooting took place for this exclusive documentary by Rajya Sabha Television included those where cameras were permitted for the first time ever by the Government of India.

Also in this programme, women soldiers of the ITBP posted along the Indo-Chine border at heights ranging from 14,500 feet to 17,000 feet.

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## Hindustani78

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/IEDs-kill-more-commoners-than-VIPs-NSG/article17279074.ece

 
*Data show 55% of these devices are set off in public places; in 2016, only 7% of the attacks were targeted at VIPs *

Who are the primary targets of terrorists? VIPs? Security forces? Or ordinary people?

A detailed data analysis carried out by the National Security Guard, a counter-terror and counter-hijack force, show it is the unarmed civilians who often fall victim to IED (improvised explosive device) blasts set off by terrorists across India. The VIPs are the least targeted.

Between 2012 and 2016, anywhere between 49% and 72% of the attacks annually have been targeted at ordinary civilians. In contrast, attacks targeting VIPs were in the range of 1% to 7%.

*Minor number*
In 2016, only 7% of the IED attacks were targeted at the VIPs. In comparison, 55% of all IED explosions across India in 2016 were targeted at public places. The remaining 37% were against security forces.

The Union government provides security to more than 300 VIPs. While the Special Protection Group provides security to the Prime Minister, the former Prime Ministers and their close family members, the NSG commandos guard those like Home Minister Rajnath Singh and Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Akhilesh Yadav.

The Centre justifies VIP security in the name of “security threats”, which are assessments made primarily through the Intelligence Bureau. Assam Chief Minister Sarbananda Sonowal is a recent addition to the list of VIPs protected by the NSG.

The NSG report said that three VIPs each were targeted in Northeast India and areas affected by Left-wing extremism, one in Jammu and Kashmir and remaining 16 in the rest of India.

In all, 337 bomb-related incidents were reported in the country, the highest in five years.

The States affected by Left-wing extremism contributed the most number of IED blasts at 159, followed by the north-eastern States at 59 and Jammu and Kashmir at 31.

“In 2016, the most preferred targets of Maoists, insurgents and terrorists were public and security forces. Overall, there was an increase in incidents when specifically security forces were the target,” the report said.

In 2016, the number of IED blasts rose from six to 33 in Kerala and from 12 to 32 in Tamil Nadu. Chhattisgarh saw an increase from 39 to 60.

The report was shared with mediapersons on Thursday at an international seminar organised by the bomb data centre of the NSG.

The report said Jammu and Kashmir saw an increase in number of blasts after the Hizbul Mujahideen militant Burhan Wani was killed in an encounter with the security forces.

*Type of explosives*
“High-grade explosives were used in 83% of all IED incidents. Considerable quantities of low explosives, especially petrol bombs, also saw an increase. From none in 2015 to 12 in 2016,” the report said. The security forces remained the prime target in J&K.


Director-General, NSG, Sudhir Pratap Singh said the force had been organising seminars on counter-terrorism for the past 16 years and this year, representatives from 12 countries attended the conference.


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## INDIAPOSITIVE



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## Abingdonboy

NSG overwatch during R-day parade 2017:

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## Abingdonboy

PM at R-day 2017:

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
PKM LMG




MARCOS
S-TAR 21
Mepro Mor

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## saumyasupratik

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 376490
> 
> PARA SF
> PKM LMG



Those are probably SFF and that is an original PK not a PKM or a captured Type 80. It's probably from Bulgaria but I am just assuming that.

PK





Bulgarian soldier shooting an Arsenal PK/MG with side rail mounting bracket. The furniture is a bit different.




I supposed the SFF would have acquired them since they did acquire and continue to acquire weapons from Bulgaria like the Arsenal AR series and Shipka SMGs. Again it's just an assumption.

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## Unknowncommando

View attachment 376977













PARA SF & Infantry during Kulgam Encounter

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO


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## Abingdonboy



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## Mustang06

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG overwatch during R-day parade 2017:


What does the red and yellow patches behind the helmet mean?


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## Abingdonboy

Mustang06 said:


> What does the red and yellow patches behind the helmet mean?


I do know but I will refrain from commenting on an open forum like this one.

Suffice to say it relates to the operator's role.

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## Mustang06

Abingdonboy said:


> I do know but I will refrain from commenting on an open forum like this one.
> 
> Suffice to say it relates to the operator's role.


Thanks!

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## Unknowncommando



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## noksss

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831836454955343872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831834649873637376
*"We would now request the local population that people who have picked up arms, and they are the local boys, if they want to continue with the acts of terrorism displaying flags of ISIS and Pakistan, then we will treat them as anti-national elements and go helter-skelter for them.

"They may survive today but we will get them tomorrow. Our relentless operations will continue," said the Army Chief.*

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...my-chief-bipin-rawat/articleshow/57168531.cms

This is this need of the hour we cant keep loosing our brave soilders bcoz of the Kashmirs love for jihad

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Levina @Rain Man

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831836454955343872
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831834649873637376
> *"We would now request the local population that people who have picked up arms, and they are the local boys, if they want to continue with the acts of terrorism displaying flags of ISIS and Pakistan, then we will treat them as anti-national elements and go helter-skelter for them.
> 
> "They may survive today but we will get them tomorrow. Our relentless operations will continue," said the Army Chief.*
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...my-chief-bipin-rawat/articleshow/57168531.cms
> 
> This is this need of the hour we cant keep loosing our brave soilders bcoz of the Kashmirs love for jihad
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Levina @Rain Man



Crush anyone who comes in the way of national integrity.

Pakistanis,Chinese,Russians and Americans..everyone does it.

I dont know why should we be so apologetic.

We are rising and world powers dont want to offend us.Plus the ISIS flags are visible so just crush them..Do we need morality lessons from Chinese who roll their tanks on innocent civilians or the Pakistanis who slit the throat of terrorists and throw them from a helicopter?

These fat biaches like Barkha Dutt and JNU janta needs to be taken care of also.Since we patriotic Indians are 98% majority so they test the waters and do things.

I believe soon there will be a revolution which will sort out everything for once.



Abingdonboy said:


> I do know but I will refrain from commenting on an open forum like this one.
> 
> Suffice to say it relates to the operator's role.


We talked about this many times.

This has been copied from Kashmir where different RR units wear different colors on their helmets.

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## noksss

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:


> Crush anyone who comes in the way of national integrity.
> 
> Pakistanis,Chinese,Russians and Americans..everyone does it.
> 
> I dont know why should we be so apologetic.
> 
> We are rising and world powers dont want to offend us.Plus the ISIS flags are visible so just crush them..Do we need morality lessons from Chinese who roll their tanks on innocent civilians or the Pakistanis who slit the throat of terrorists and throw them from a helicopter?
> 
> These fat biaches like Barkha Dutt and JNU janta needs to be taken care of also.Since we patriotic Indians are 98% majority so they test the waters and do things.
> 
> I believe soon there will be a revolution which will sort out everything for once.



Dude Barkha kind of rats will be handled by Arnab and some good trolls in twitter but this Ops disruption is going for a long time and we lost many soldiers bcoz of this.Its time to show some spine and deal with them like how Isreal/America/Chinese and even pakistanis deal with enough of this Image bullshit lets face whatever comes our way and give them what they actually deserve . Also do u have any idea how army is gonna deal with such stone pelters ?


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

noksss said:


> Dude Barkha kind of rats will be handled by Arnab and some good trolls in twitter but this Ops disruption is going for a long time and we lost many soldiers bcoz of this.Its time to show some spine and deal with them like how Isreal/America/Chinese and even pakistanis deal with enough of this Image bullshit lets face whatever comes our way and give them what they actually deserve . Also do u have any idea how army is gonna deal with such stone pelters ?


By assassinating them..simple.

Do you know why no one protests when the Army does a flag march in downtown Srinagar?

Because Army has orders to shoot 5.56mm and not pellet guns.

Poor CRPF and JKP guys dont have that option and hence get killed and injured by these cowards.

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## Levina

noksss said:


> This is this need of the hour we cant keep loosing our brave soilders bcoz of the Kashmirs love for jihad



Indian army gets more power than ever.
Overground workers of terrorist groups will be hunted down. 
Wait and watch!

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## Abingdonboy

noksss said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831836454955343872
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831834649873637376
> *"We would now request the local population that people who have picked up arms, and they are the local boys, if they want to continue with the acts of terrorism displaying flags of ISIS and Pakistan, then we will treat them as anti-national elements and go helter-skelter for them.
> 
> "They may survive today but we will get them tomorrow. Our relentless operations will continue," said the Army Chief.*
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...my-chief-bipin-rawat/articleshow/57168531.cms
> 
> This is this need of the hour we cant keep loosing our brave soilders bcoz of the Kashmirs love for jihad
> 
> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy @Levina @Rain Man


Absolutely how it should be, they are terrorists plain and simple- just because their weapons are stones and bricks and not AKs is immaterial.

But let's see how this rhetoric translates into actions on the ground, I don't imagine anything will change. 

+ It is a great gesture and one I wish was repeated more often but can anyone explain why it might be that Modi personally paid respects for these soldiers specifically? Under his time as PM dozens of soldiers have fallen in Kashmir butthis is the first time he is doing this in public, why now?

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## noksss

Abingdonboy said:


> Absolutely how it should be, they are terrorists plain and simple- just because their weapons are stones and bricks and not AKs is immaterial.
> 
> But let's see how this rhetoric translates into actions on the ground, I don't imagine anything will change.
> 
> + It is a great gesture and one I wish was repeated more often but can anyone explain why it might be that Modi personally paid respects for these soldiers specifically? Under his time as PM dozens of soldiers have fallen in Kashmir butthis is the first time he is doing this in public, why now?



This is not UPA dude this government has taken down lots of the A++ commanders of the lakshars/JeM in Kashmir .Now with respect to the gesture I see a connect between Modi Paying respect and the strong worded statement by the chief .We all know that our prestitutes is gonna shout from the rooftop the moment we touch these stone pelters with this gesture I guess he is preparing ground for the army to go against them very hard without worrying about the PR

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## Unknowncommando

PARA troopers during Aero India 2017

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds 2015

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 377813
> 
> Garuds 2015



No Garuds in the ongoing Aero India?


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## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> No Garuds in the ongoing Aero India?


They are there (not as public this year though for some reason) as are the NSG (this might be the case every year, not sure).


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## Unknowncommando

PARA & US Special Forces










Garuds Aero India 2017

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## Abingdonboy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/832483462384717826

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## Unknowncommando

From Aero India

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

IAF Garud Commando
Aero India 2017

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## ranjeet

*NSG gets shot in arm with grenade dropping drones, dog robot*

A grenade-dropping drone, 3D fly-on-the-wall radar to see through a 20-m-thick wall and a 'dogo robot' armed with remote pistol are some of the latest weaponry provided to the NSG to undertake lethal counter-terror operations with a punch of stealth.

The federal contingency force, drawing from its experiences in combating terror attacks and hostage situations in closed spaces in urban areas, has inducted some of the smartest gadgets and arms used by Special Forces and SWAT teams world over.

A senior official said that the 'black cats' force, giving an edge to its sharp-shooters, has recently upgraded sniper rifles and inducted the German PSG1 A1 which carries an enhanced number of 20 rounds to engage and pin down targets for a longer time and is complemented with longer range and extreme accuracy.

The 7.2 kg weighing rifle with telescopic sight is an upgrade of the PSG1 sniper variant used by the marksmen of the National Security Guard till now.

*While the usage of drones or Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) by security forces is common, the elite force has armed its crack teams with an indigenously made 'munition launcher system' that can carry a pair of 38mm grenades to stealthily drop in enemy territory with the aid and precision of an in-built spy camera.*

The white-coloured drone takes to the air with the help of its four small rotors and is handled remotely by the operator camouflaged at a distance on the ground with the surroundings.

*The most lethal and clever gadget that is now adding to the strike potential of the NSG is the Israel-made 'dogo robot' that drags its 11.5kg weight towards a holed-up terrorist and informs the commando teams about his exact position and arms and ammunition holding via a camera feed.*

The robo can be armed with a small Glock pistol to shoot the target from a joystick control board and provide an intervention window to waiting commandos teams.

It also sports a two-way encrypted audio system that allows the operator to listen and intervene in hostage situations without the flat device itself getting noticed.

The NSG, officials said, has procured few pieces of the dogo robot for its counter-terror and counter-hijack operations task, at a cost of Rs 76 lakh each, and it is named so taking inspiration from the capabilities of the Argentine Mastiff.

*A 3D 'through wall radar', upgraded from the 2D variant which the NSG is understood to have used during last year's attack on the Pathankot IAF base, will give the commandos pictures from across a 20-meter thick wall with a 80 degree field of view.*

The 14-kg radar sports a price tag of over Rs 1 crore and can be placed on the outside of a closed room like a fly-on-the-wall, an official said.

NSG commanders, taking cognisance of the emerging terror scenario, have prepared a blueprint to equip its commandos with the latest gadgets as they foresee a situation where the contingency force will have to undertake multifarious operations, ranging from closed spaces of a five-star hotel like during 2008 Mumbai attacks and acres of open field at the Pathankot air base.

*The force has also procured light-weight (3.8kg) Israeli and US-made 'corner shot' rifles that can pin down terrorists and save hostages with precision, without the commandos being exposed.*

A favourite weapon of the Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) teams and Special Forces, the 'corner shot' have also been improvised for better aim after the NSG felt their use after the 26/11 terror attacks.

In order to better protect its commandos right in the line of fire, the force has got new ballistic helmets with glass visor that can save them from eye injuries through splinter or grenade blasts.

The helmets, of the top notch NIJ-III specifications that define the best bullet proof protection, weigh 2.6-kgs.

A special combat gun, SPAS-15, is also now in the combat inventory of the force. The Italian shotgun can hold a six round magazine and is popular among commando forces as it is used to blast the locks of closed doors.

"The NSG did a lot of door busting when a number of rooms in two five-star hotels had to be forcibly opened during the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai. Then door-charge ammunition was used which is crude and could result in collateral damage. The SPAS-15 does this job effectively and efficiently," the official said.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/nati...m-with-grenade-dropping-drones-dog-robot.html

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 378527
> View attachment 378528


Garuds were very low-key at this year's Aero india, not many pics of them at all.

+ they really need to smarten up, their mismatched uniforms and hands in pockets is just plain unproffesional for an elite unit especially at such a high profile event. They are the IAF's ambassadors and should act like it.


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## Indika

ranjeet said:


> *NSG gets shot in arm with grenade dropping drones, dog robot*
> 
> A grenade-dropping drone, 3D fly-on-the-wall radar to see through a 20-m-thick wall and a 'dogo robot' armed with remote pistol are some of the latest weaponry provided to the NSG to undertake lethal counter-terror operations with a punch of stealth.
> 
> The federal contingency force, drawing from its experiences in combating terror attacks and hostage situations in closed spaces in urban areas, has inducted some of the smartest gadgets and arms used by Special Forces and SWAT teams world over.
> 
> A senior official said that the 'black cats' force, giving an edge to its sharp-shooters, has recently upgraded sniper rifles and inducted the German PSG1 A1 which carries an enhanced number of 20 rounds to engage and pin down targets for a longer time and is complemented with longer range and extreme accuracy.
> 
> The 7.2 kg weighing rifle with telescopic sight is an upgrade of the PSG1 sniper variant used by the marksmen of the National Security Guard till now.
> 
> *While the usage of drones or Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) by security forces is common, the elite force has armed its crack teams with an indigenously made 'munition launcher system' that can carry a pair of 38mm grenades to stealthily drop in enemy territory with the aid and precision of an in-built spy camera.*
> 
> The white-coloured drone takes to the air with the help of its four small rotors and is handled remotely by the operator camouflaged at a distance on the ground with the surroundings.
> 
> *The most lethal and clever gadget that is now adding to the strike potential of the NSG is the Israel-made 'dogo robot' that drags its 11.5kg weight towards a holed-up terrorist and informs the commando teams about his exact position and arms and ammunition holding via a camera feed.*
> 
> The robo can be armed with a small Glock pistol to shoot the target from a joystick control board and provide an intervention window to waiting commandos teams.
> 
> It also sports a two-way encrypted audio system that allows the operator to listen and intervene in hostage situations without the flat device itself getting noticed.
> 
> The NSG, officials said, has procured few pieces of the dogo robot for its counter-terror and counter-hijack operations task, at a cost of Rs 76 lakh each, and it is named so taking inspiration from the capabilities of the Argentine Mastiff.
> 
> *A 3D 'through wall radar', upgraded from the 2D variant which the NSG is understood to have used during last year's attack on the Pathankot IAF base, will give the commandos pictures from across a 20-meter thick wall with a 80 degree field of view.*
> 
> The 14-kg radar sports a price tag of over Rs 1 crore and can be placed on the outside of a closed room like a fly-on-the-wall, an official said.
> 
> NSG commanders, taking cognisance of the emerging terror scenario, have prepared a blueprint to equip its commandos with the latest gadgets as they foresee a situation where the contingency force will have to undertake multifarious operations, ranging from closed spaces of a five-star hotel like during 2008 Mumbai attacks and acres of open field at the Pathankot air base.
> 
> *The force has also procured light-weight (3.8kg) Israeli and US-made 'corner shot' rifles that can pin down terrorists and save hostages with precision, without the commandos being exposed.*
> 
> A favourite weapon of the Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) teams and Special Forces, the 'corner shot' have also been improvised for better aim after the NSG felt their use after the 26/11 terror attacks.
> 
> In order to better protect its commandos right in the line of fire, the force has got new ballistic helmets with glass visor that can save them from eye injuries through splinter or grenade blasts.
> 
> The helmets, of the top notch NIJ-III specifications that define the best bullet proof protection, weigh 2.6-kgs.
> 
> A special combat gun, SPAS-15, is also now in the combat inventory of the force. The Italian shotgun can hold a six round magazine and is popular among commando forces as it is used to blast the locks of closed doors.
> 
> "The NSG did a lot of door busting when a number of rooms in two five-star hotels had to be forcibly opened during the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai. Then door-charge ammunition was used which is crude and could result in collateral damage. The SPAS-15 does this job effectively and efficiently," the official said.
> 
> http://www.deccanchronicle.com/nati...m-with-grenade-dropping-drones-dog-robot.html


frankly I have no idea why we should make this even public. Surprise is a key factor in taking on enemies. Simply giving away info does no good. This is not a nuclear bomb or missile to which can deter them.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Paratroopers 
Aero India 2017

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## cerilchan

You are exposing special forces classified weapons why here


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## Gessler

cerilchan said:


> You are exposing special forces classified weapons why here


----------



## Robinhood Pandey

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 378081
> 
> IAF Garud Commando
> Aero India 2017



Hey . . . i clicked that pic . . where did u get it from ??

i didnt even upload this one on this forum

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## Unknowncommando

Robinhood Pandey said:


> Hey . . . i clicked that pic . . where did u get it from ??
> 
> i didnt even upload this one on this forum


It is all over the Internet bro. Every defence page has posted that picture.





Garud

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## Robinhood Pandey

Unknowncommando said:


> It is all over the Internet bro. Every defence page has posted that picture.
> 
> View attachment 378886
> 
> Garud



i should have watermarked it 

khair jane do . . atleast my pic is famous now

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## Unknowncommando

Robinhood Pandey said:


> i should have watermarked it
> 
> khair jane do . . atleast my pic is famous now


Iske baad watermark lagate jao. I used to do the same. Many pages shared but didn't give any credit.

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## Unknowncommando

SF Exercise with Kyrgyzstan SF

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos with Royal Marines




Garuds Aero India 2017

























PARA Commandos Aero India 2017





























PARA SF joint ex with Kyrgyzstan SF

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## Robinhood Pandey

@Unknowncommando bro can i have your email ID or anything through which i can communicate with u off this forum ?


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## Unknowncommando

Robinhood Pandey said:


> @Unknowncommando bro can i have your email ID or anything through which i can communicate with u off this forum ?


unknowncommando3@gmail.com

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## Unknowncommando

MS Dhoni with PARA SF & MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Indian & Kyrgyz SF operators

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Sniper




MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG snipers from Support Weapon Squadron

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 380839
> View attachment 380840
> 
> MARCOS



I think this is the first time I'm seeing MARCOS with M-16s. No doubt these are for training/weapon-familiarization.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 380839
> View attachment 380840
> 
> MARCOS


Looks like they are training on a civlian ship but wonder why they are using bog-standard M-16s, not even modded M4s like the PARA (SF) use? Also why are they in civilian dress? There's more to these pics, would be interesting to know the backstory.....


----------



## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Looks like they are training on a civlian ship but wonder why they are using bog-standard M-16s, not even modded M4s like the PARA (SF) use? Also why are they in civilian dress? There's more to these pics, would be interesting to know the backstory.....


Bro these guys are drilling the sea Marshal role. You can guess variety of ops done by SFs. They are getting trained in every possible scenario. Many people will say that they are sea Marshals but no. One of them is wearing MARCOS camo (old) and two people wearing shoes which are issued to MARCOS.




PARA SF

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## Mustang06

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 380839
> View attachment 380840
> 
> MARCOS


2nd guy from right even has a tattoo on his arm!


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## Unknowncommando

Mustang06 said:


> 2nd guy from right even has a tattoo on his arm!







Few MARCOS have tattoos on their body . I think Navy is ok with it. I have seen many navy guys with tattoos.

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## vinay

Abingdonboy said:


> Looks like they are training on a civlian ship but wonder why they are using bog-standard M-16s, not even modded M4s like the PARA (SF) use? Also why are they in civilian dress? There's more to these pics, would be interesting to know the backstory.....


I dont think they are MARCOS . They are private security guards from maritime security companies on board merchant ships for anti piracy/ship security.


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## Unknowncommando

Indian & Kyrgyz SF joint Ex

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Shopian Encounter




You can see the guy on the left side is actually carrying two B&T Mp9 SMGs. Which shows thats SF ,GHATAK & Infantry units were Operating together.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Indian_gorkha

Unknowncommando said:


> Shopian Encounter
> View attachment 381921
> 
> You can see the guy on the left side is actually carrying two B&T Mp9 SMGs. Which shows thats SF ,GHATAK & Infantry units were Operating together.
> View attachment 381922
> View attachment 381923
> View attachment 381924
> View attachment 381925


Our SF really look like a warlords militia. 
No offence. I'm not undermining their capabilities, but still..

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## Unknowncommando

PARA

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 382561
> View attachment 382562
> 
> PARA SF


There's a sexy a/c in the background there....... IAF ALH Mk.3 with an EO pod

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## Unknowncommando

Pulwama

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## Gessler

Someone needs to give RR (even Para-SF) a lesson about proper military attire. Uniform is among the most basic disciplines of an Army. Some SFs may choose to wear more appropriate ethnic clothes when needed in order to blend in on covert ops or otherwise...but barring that, the forces in Kashmir seem to have totally thrown away the idea of uniform.

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Director General

Now we will have a tough time identifying which units in Kashmir are PARA SF and which units are RR because RR is now switching to Tavor and is getting Ballistic helmets too:

http://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/020317/heavy-firepower-to-fight-terrorists-this-summer.html

@Unknowncommando @Abingdonboy

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## Abingdonboy

SPG with PM:

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## Unknowncommando

Garud

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## Unknowncommando

Indo-kyrgyz Joint SF Exercise

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## Abingdonboy

Counter Assualt Team (CAT) member during the PM's visit to Dehradun :

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## Unknowncommando

PARA

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## ranjeet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843828744175341568

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Zarvan

ranjeet said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843828744175341568


What he did ?


----------



## nik141993

Zarvan said:


> What he did ?


Fake surgical strike

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## Super Commando Dhruva

Female security guard for president on NDTV, I dont have pictures yet. ( I saw on Ndtv, they look basic with ear piece and safari suite )


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## Unknowncommando

Special Operations Command, Pacific (SOCPAC) personnel conducted a two-week Joint Combined Exchange Training (JCET) with the Indian Army in Jodhpur which concluded on March 12. The exercise was hosted by the Indian Army's 10 PARA SF and U.S. participants included Army personnel from 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne), Air Force personnel from the 353rd Special Operations Group, and one MC-130J aircraft. Training focused on military freefall parachute operations, ground tactical shooting, and Indian-led training on desert survival and navigation.

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## Abingdonboy

ranjeet said:


> One doesn't come across such videos because people don't bother to capture them, I have come across PM's motorcade on this same road like 4-5 times in the last couple of months. If you want I can capture one next time.


Still waiting bro


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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## Unknowncommando

Paratroopers

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 386792
> 
> Paratroopers


What unit is this? SF don't use INSAS LMG


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> What unit is this? SF don't use INSAS LMG


Regular Paratroopers bro not SF. Dont know the exact unit.

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## saumyasupratik

Abingdonboy said:


> What unit is this? SF don't use INSAS LMG


Judging by the shoulder tab, it's possibly a Battalion of the Madras Regiment. They are most probably the Ghatak Platoon.

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## Abingdonboy

saumyasupratik said:


> Judging by the shoulder tab, it's possibly a Battalion of the Madras Regiment. They are most probably the Ghatak Platoon.


Right! Good spot.

Definetly aren't part of the Para regiment @Unknowncommando

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## Unknowncommando

SF during Budgam Operation




@Abingdonboy yeah he is right. I didn't see that tag. This is the picture from same event and same guys.

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## Hindustani78

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...urity-cover/article17744688.ece?homepage=true

* The UP CM will now have about 25-28 commandos accompanying him with sophisticated weapons. *

The Centre has accorded the top category ‘Z+’ VVIP armed security cover to Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath.

The cover will be provided by a special commando team of the CISF along with a small contingent of the Uttar Pradesh police.

Mr. Adityanath was till now enjoying the smallest category of ’Y’ category VVIP cover by the CISF in his capacity as a BJP Member of Parliament from Gorakhpur but officials said with his taking charge as CM, a threat perception report of central security agencies required his security paraphernalia to be upgraded.

“The Chief Minister’s security has been bolstered and he will now be secured by a strong team of CISF commandos everytime he moves across the country. A similar commando contingent will be deployed at his official residence,” a senior officer said.

As part of the new and upgraded security paraphernalia, Mr. Adityanath will have about 25-28 commandos accompanying him with sophisticated weapons at all times when he is mobile and his convoy will have pilot and escort vehicles armed with jammers.

Under the ‘Y’ cover, he was accompanied by about 2-3 commandos when he travelled, officials said.

A Central Industrial Security Force squad from its Special Security Group (SSG) has recently taken charge of his security in Lucknow, they said

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## Unknowncommando

One more reason to like Tavor
You can't do that with M4 or AK.
That box looks heavy too.










12 PARA SF Snipers

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS




SIG SG 551
NSG SAG

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Marco




FN P-90



X-95







Special Frontier Force ( SFF )

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando

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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
11-April, 2017 16:05 IST
*Security to VIP’s *



As per “Data on Police Organizations” published by Bureau of Police Research & Development, the police-public ratio (per lakh of population) in the country as on 01.01.2016 is 180.59.


Security is provided on the basis of threat assessment done by Central Security Agency. It is subject to periodic review. Based on such review, the security cover is continued, withdrawn or modified. Hence the number of protectees is not static and varies over time. As on date, the number of threat based protectees in the Central list in the various categories is as follows:


Category
Number

Z+
26

Z
58

Y+
144

Y
2

X
68

Total
298



Presently 14 ‘Z+’ category protectees have been provided with NSG mobile security cover.NSG has deployed 551 security personnel for the protection of these protectees.


As regards expenditure on security, it is difficult to determine it precisely as it includes salary and allowances to security personnel, communication, transport vehicles, etc. which are accounted for under respective budget heads of different security agencies, including State Government agencies, providing security cover. Such details are not compiled centrally.


There are special instructions for security of the President, the Vice President and the Prime Minister, which are contained in their respective Blue Books issued by M/o Home Affairs.


Security arrangements for other individuals are made as per the guidelines laid down in the ‘Yellow Book’ titled ‘Security arrangements for the protection of individuals’. The security arrangements for such individuals are made after careful assessment of their threat perception by the Central Security Agency. Depending on the level of threat, security is provided in Z+,Z,Y+,Y and X categories.


Certain categories of individuals, such as Union Ministers, State CMs and Judges of Supreme Court and High Courts, are provided positional/statutory security cover to facilitate bold and impartial decision making. Their security is withdrawn after they demit their office.


This was stated by the Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Hansraj Gangaram Ahir in a written reply to question by Shri Godse Hemant Tukaram and Shri Hariom Singh Rathore in the Lok Sabha today.


****

Ministry of Home Affairs
11-April, 2017 16:04 IST
*Expenditure on Deployment of CAPF *

Requests have been received in Ministry of Home Affairs from the State Governments of Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Odisha, Punjab, Telangana, Uttarakhand and West Bengal for waiving off cost of deployment charges towards deployment of CAPFs in their States. As per the extant policy of Government of India, the States are required to bear the cost of deployment of Central Armed Police Forces in their states at the prescribed rates. The requests have been examined but not agreed to in view of the extant policy of the Government of India. 

Two requests were received from the State Government of Andhra Pradesh vide letters dated 28.5.2014 and 24.6.2016 for waiving off of Rs.1003.61 crore and Rs. 50.76 crore respectively which have not been agreed to in view of the extant policy of the Government of India. 

This was stated by the Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju in a written reply to question by Smt. Rita Tarai and Shri M.Murali Mohan in the Lok Sabha today. 

****

Ministry of Home Affairs
11-April, 2017 16:02 IST
*Shortage of CAPF Personnel *

Two additional Reserve Battalions have been sanctioned to CISF in June, 2016. Further, Government has recently (December, 2016) increased the ceiling of strength of CISF from 1,45,000 to 1,80,000. The requirement of manpower for expansion/new induction is met from this enhanced strength on need basis. 

CISF is deployed for security of Delhi Metro Rail only and not at any other Metro. At present there is no proposal for creation of a separate battalion of CISF for providing security at Metro rail stations. 

This was stated by the Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju in a written reply to question by Shri Ram Charitra Nishad in the Lok Sabha today. 

****


----------



## Abingdonboy

Australian PM Malcom Turnball and PM Modi inside the official PM's car (760Li) on the way to a ride on Delhi metro:


----------



## boxer_B




----------



## Abingdonboy

A member of the SPG's Counter Assualt Team (CAT) during the PM's visit to Nagpur (14/4/2017):






















------------------
------------------


boxer_B said:


>



This isn't SPG, this is a demo by CISF.

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## boxer_B

Abingdonboy said:


> This isn't SPG, this is a demo by CISF.



Video title was not given by me. Obviously SPG wouldn't display its capability in open.


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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commando







Marcos




NSG COMMANDO BDS EOD suite.

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## Hindustani78

Security personnel stands guard at the airport following an hijack alert in Mumbai.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
Bada$$ as always

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## Abingdonboy

Hindustani78 said:


> Security personnel stands guard at the airport following an hijack alert in Mumbai.


CISF, would be more appropriate to put it in the emergency services thread bro.

-------------------------
-------------------------

Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members of the SPG during the PM's various visits to Odisha and Surat on the weekend of 15&16th April 2017:

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## Unknowncommando

SPG

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## John Reese

Special Frontier force

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## Gessler

John Reese said:


> Special Frontier force



Need more pics of these guys with their SCARs. So far there is only 1 out there.

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## Unknowncommando

SFF
@Gessler i have seen many pictures. But Never seen SCAR . Only in those 2-3 from video. Really want to see Scar. SG has more SCARs than SFF. SFF has in limited numbers.














NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 391889



Aha. ACH-2000 again. With SFF this time.

Someone needs to keep track of the units so far seen with these new helmets. So far Maratha LI is the only regular unit seen with these.



> View attachment 391898
> View attachment 391899
> View attachment 391900
> View attachment 391901
> 
> NSG



Nice pics! I always enjoy relishing new photos of NSG...however, every time I see them and the old helmets are still being fiddled with, I have pangs of pain deep in my gut. Most operatives nowadays are seen with ACH-2000 types (with side-rails) which are fine but given their role and environments, something lighter should be provided. Like a FAST or at least ACH-2001 (high-cut).

I understand the lack of cutting-edge equipment for regulars, but NSG operatives are the nation's premier internal anti-terror special forces, goddamn it!

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## Aman Depani

What scars are you guys talking about?


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## Aman Depani

I was wondering, is the solider in the S.F.F pic Indian?


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## Gessler

Aman Depani said:


> View attachment 392185
> 
> I was wondering, is the solider in the S.F.F pic Indian?



So many god-awful mistakes in this. 


The SFF guy is an Afghan National Army (ANA) soldier
Para-SF is actually a British Army guy with their standard-issue SA-80A2 rifle
Force One depicts Israel Defense Forces personnel
MARCOS picture is actually US Navy SEALS
NSG and Blackcats are one and the same, not two separate SFs
Ghatak is actually a Para-SF guy
To top it all off, what exactly is this a compilation of? Indian Military Special Forces? Paramilitary units? Metropolitan anti-terror units? I don't see any reason why all these have been grouped together. Most probably the maker wanted to create a compilation of "Indian forces that look cool"...and ended up including Brits, Americans, Israelis and Afghans in his work. 



Aman Depani said:


> What scars are you guys talking about?



The Rifle from FN Herstal. *S*pecial forces *C*ombat *A*ssault *R*ifle (SCAR).

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## Aman Depani

Exactly what I was wondering haha. And thanks I literally forgot about the rifle.


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## Unknowncommando

Air Force Chief visits Anti Naxal Task Force Camp
Nice to see GARUDs taking part in anti naxal ops. It will give them pretty good experience in combat.

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF




MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

With Royal Marine Commandos
MARCOS

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## Lord Of Gondor

Courtesy Alamy/TeamINDRA FB Page

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## Unknowncommando

SPG and MODI ji

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO

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## Jamwal's

Never leave a brother behind


Para Special Forces

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS during mock drill at Vizag Airport

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## A Basu

1st NSG + MARCOS joint exercise in Kochi.












Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 394992
> View attachment 394993
> View attachment 394994
> View attachment 394995
> 
> MARCOS during mock drill at Vizag Airport


You left the best ones

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## Unknowncommando

A Basu said:


> 1st NSG + MARCOS joint exercise in Kochi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You left the best ones


First one i have posted on the previous page already.













MARCOS Ex. Konkan

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## Jamwal's

SFF

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## Hindustani78

National Security Guards and Marine commandos of the Navy conducting a counter-terror exercise in Kochi. 
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...t-counter-terror-exercise/article18402372.ece
National Security Guards and Marine commandos of the Navy conducting a counter-terror exercise in Kochi. 


 
*Hostage rescue taken up during the drill *
A joint exercise involving the National Security Guards (NSG) Chennai Hub and Marine Commandos of the Indian Navy (MARCOS) was conducted at the Naval Base in Kochi from May 4 to 6. The exercise, under the aegis of the Southern Naval Command, was aimed at providing a platform for achieving interoperability and cohesion during joint operations, said an official release issued here.

The team from NSG consisting of two officers, four JCOs (junior commissioned officers) and 30 commandos and the MARCOS team with 20 members including two officers, undertook counter-terrorist exercises including hostage rescue. This is the first time that such an exercise has been conducted in Kochi.

The exercise will be used to fine tune the standard operating procedures to be employed during real time joint special forces operations in the case of any contingencies, the release said.


----------



## Jamwal's

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Bhupendra Singh_Cyan

Pakistani Jamwal's, post: 9456011, member: 170429"]




__ https://www.facebook.com/




[/QUOTE]
Pakistani posts?

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## Lord Of Gondor

Thanks for the awesome video, I assume they are from 22 Sikh?
(But I think it's in the wrong thread)

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## Jamwal's

Bhupendra Singh_Cyan said:


> Pakistani Jamwal's, post: 9456011, member: 170429"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Pakistani posts?[/QUOTE]
Check the flag above it before the upper OP crumbled and razed to the ground.

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## Bhupendra Singh_Cyan

Jamwal's said:


> Pakistani posts?


Check the flag above it before the upper OP crumbled and razed to the ground.[/QUOTE]
Green and white

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## Lord Of Gondor

Jamwal's said:


> Check the flag above it before the upper OP crumbled and razed to the ground.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/861543971624853505

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Bada$$-ness overloaded
Special Group
PARA SF
NSG - SAG

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO officer

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Bada$$-ness overloaded
> Special Group
> PARA SF
> NSG - SAG


NSG (SAG) and Special Group operators should ALWAYS have their faces blurred bro.

----------------
----------------



NSG:

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG (SAG) and Special Group operators should ALWAYS have their faces blurred bro.
> 
> ----------------
> ----------------
> 
> 
> 
> NSG:


That pic was already viral bro.
Thats sherpa light. After Sherpa 2 they got few more sherpa lights for other hubs. They should have one sherpa 2 and two sherpa light at each hub.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Thats sherpa light. After Sherpa 2 they got few more sherpa lights for other hubs. They should have one sherpa 2 and two sherpa light at each hub.


Hmmm, interesting bro

Any idea what the NSG use the Sherpa "light" for? The Sherpa 2s are obviously configured as ladder platforms for assualts:















And if you'll note they also have huge front guards but the Sherpa "lights" of the NSG don't have that.

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## Unknowncommando

Para airborne

@Abingdonboy Bro they can't take Sherpa 2 anywhere. It can be used in particular situations. So Sherpa light is used where there is possibility of incoming fire from all the directions. If you have situation in open areas and there is no use of ladder platforms , all the construction is on the ground floor then you don't need that height. You can ram walls if enemy is behind with the use of Sherpa 2 as it has 7-8 tonnes weight. But it seems that we can't do same thing with sherpa light. Its rear platform can be covered with rigid or flexible roofs like humvee.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Para SF in the valley

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## Unknowncommando

Marine Commando

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Late Col. Santosh Mahadik











MARCOS Anti-Piracy ops

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds and their weapons

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

New Quarter zip combat uniform of NSG Commandos

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 397478
> 
> New Quarter zip combat uniform of NSG Commandos



Holy ghosts...finally!

@Abingdonboy

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## GuardianRED

Gessler said:


> Holy ghosts...finally!
> 
> @Abingdonboy


Yes looks great... Still the significants of this ?? Better tactically?


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## Gessler

GuardianRED said:


> Yes looks great... Still the significants of this ?? Better tactically?



> Easier & faster to put on and remove (zip vs buttons).
> More comfortable for a person carrying tactical loads. 
> Affords somewhat better tactile movement of limbs.
> The specially designed shoulder pockets allow the shooter to store & access several small, critical items on his person which can be used even if the vest has to be removed for whatever reason (normal torso pockets of any BDU would become inaccessible after you put on a vest).

Plus, it looks killer!

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## Unknowncommando

Indian Naval Ship INS Sharda, deployed for anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden, received a distress call from MV Lord Mountbatten, a Liberian registered ship, in position 230 nautical miles South West of Salalah at about 1645 hours on 16 May 2017. The vessel had reported an incident of attempted piracy by two suspicious mother vessels along with seven to eight skiffs. INS Sharda immediately responded to the distress call and proceeded at best speed to investigate the incident. On arriving in the area, INS Sharda detected two dhows along with eight skiffs in vicinity, three of which fled the area at high speed on sighting the warship. #IndianNavy Marine Commandos boarding team, with the ship’s armed helicopter in close support, investigated the dhows and their skiffs by conducting board and search operations. The absence of any fishing gear on board the two dhows and remaining five skiffs indicated malicious intent and possible piracy-linked intentions. One high calibre AKM rifle along with one filled magazine was found hidden on board one of the dhows. The weapon and ammunition was confiscated to prevent future illegal misuse.

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## Unknowncommando

View attachment 397531




Special Frontier Force SFF
Thanks to D.F.I. members for the pics

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## Lord Of Gondor

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 397519
> View attachment 397522
> View attachment 397523
> View attachment 397528


Can someone help ID these weapons?


----------



## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 397521
> View attachment 397527



Shipka! From the Hitman movie!

Never knew our forces had these! Thanks much for posting these images...I scrolled fast & actually saw the 2nd pic before the first and thought it was a MAT49 or something. Before noticing the magwell, ofcourse -








Lord Of Gondor said:


> Can someone help ID these weapons?



1) AKS-74U with an AKMS-type underfolding stock, NOT the typical Krinkov
2) either a Browning Hi-Power or a Colt 1911 model
3) Dragunov SVD
4) Negev

Forgive if already posted -

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## saumyasupratik

Gessler said:


> Shipka! From the Hitman movie!
> 
> Never knew our forces had these! Thanks much for posting these images...I scrolled fast & actually saw the 2nd pic before the first and thought it was a MAT49 or something. Before noticing the magwell, ofcourse -
> 
> 1) AKS-74U with an AKMS-type underfolding stock, NOT the typical Krinkov
> 2) either a Browning Hi-Power or a Colt 1911 model
> 3) Dragunov SVD
> 4) Negev
> 
> Forgive if already posted -


 
1) AR-SF
2) It's probably a BB gun
3) Negev SF

The PKs are all Bulgarian judging by the furniture.

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## John Reese

Hey anybody seen T91 Assault rifle in service


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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Lord Of Gondor

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG:


I think that address(facebook.com/shatrujeet) is wrong.
It took me to the profile of a certain Shatrujeet Nath!


----------



## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Unknowncommando

NSG , CISF , QRT and FORCE ONE mock drill at Mumbai airport.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA ( Airborne )

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 397802
> View attachment 397803
> View attachment 397804
> View attachment 397805
> 
> NSG , CISF , QRT and FORCE ONE mock drill at Mumbai airport.


NICE! Post any more pics of this exercise if you have them bro, an opportunity to see the elusive Force One operating with the NSG no less 

I'm sure that Force One must train with the NSG's Mumbai hub teams reguarly but how rarely do we see such things. 

+ good to see this kind of joint effort taking place, this will be the difference between success and failure if ever the worst were to occur.

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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG:




This new suit is just waaaay better looking.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG and Force One commando in the background. They do conduct joint exercises very often.
@Abingdonboy

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## Big Tank

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 398008
> 
> NSG and Force One commando in the background. They do conduct joint exercises very often.
> @Abingdonboy


Why still those old M1 Steel Helmets?


----------



## Unknowncommando

Mini Tank said:


> Why still those old M1 Steel Helmets?


This drill was conducted months ago. This NSG team is from mumbai regional hub. Most of the operators have new Helmets while old helmets are getting replaced slowly.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 398144
> 
> NSG



Seeing a flood of images of NSG guys with the new uniform. *Now someone please give me a picture of NSG personnel in the new uniform WITH A VEST, HELMET AND FULL LOADOUT!*

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## Super Falcon

Unmature babies in Indian NSG


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## Gessler

Super Falcon said:


> Unmature babies in Indian NSG



As opposed to mature babies in pakistani....wait, what's the pak equivalent of NSG?

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## Abingdonboy

Mini Tank said:


> Why still those old M1 Steel Helmets?


They aren't steel, they are Kevlar Orlite-M helmets.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 398008
> 
> NSG and Force One commando in the background. They do conduct joint exercises very often.
> @Abingdonboy


Those are Mumbai QRT, no?

But yeah, NSG and Force One must train together a lot considering there is a NSG hub in the city.



Gessler said:


> As opposed to mature babies in pakistani....wait, what's the pak equivalent of NSG?


Leave them to their jealousy bro.



Unknowncommando said:


>


Doesn't look like Delhi Metro, any idea where this is?



Unknowncommando said:


>


Those Addidas GSG-9 boots are like $200

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## Big Tank

Gessler said:


> As opposed to mature babies in pakistani....wait, what's the pak equivalent of NSG?


Ignore these kids by our side. 

Btw we've SWAT units provincially devided unlike NSG which is a Federal Unit. 


*Special Combat Unit of KP*





*SPECIAL SECURITY UNIT SINDH













PUNJAB ELITE FORCE





*
We also have Rangers and they're not only a Border Force. You can call the equivalent to the NSG since they're operating in most of the Major cities against Insurgents.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos mock drill at Huda Metro Station

@Gessler bro please don't reply to such fanboys.

@Abingdonboy Yes i always verify before posting. F1 has this navy blue uniform with patch on left shoulder while QRT has dark blue uniform and they have yellow patch on left side. So they are F1 for sure.




See the picture above right side. F1 joint ex with NSG.

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## Avijit

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 397513
> View attachment 397514
> View attachment 397515
> View attachment 397516
> View attachment 397517
> View attachment 397518
> View attachment 397519
> View attachment 397520
> View attachment 397521
> View attachment 397522
> View attachment 397523
> View attachment 397524
> View attachment 397525
> View attachment 397526
> View attachment 397527
> View attachment 397528
> View attachment 397530
> View attachment 397531
> View attachment 397532
> 
> Special Frontier Force SFF
> Thanks to D.F.I. members for the pics


Wowwww 
Aks74u!!!


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## Gessler

Avijit said:


> Wowwww
> Aks74u!!!



It's actually the Bulgarian AR-SF.

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## Abingdonboy

Mini Tank said:


> Ignore these kids by our side.
> 
> Btw we've SWAT units provincially devided unlike NSG which is a Federal Unit.
> 
> 
> *Special Combat Unit of KP*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SPECIAL SECURITY UNIT SINDH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PUNJAB ELITE FORCE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> We also have Rangers and they're not only a Border Force. You can call the equivalent to the NSG since they're operating in most of the Major cities against Insurgents.


Broadly, SSG's Zaheer unit is Pakistan's NSG equivalent but the comparison is pretty messy considering the differences in force structure and legal authority.



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 398305
> 
> NSG Commandos mock drill at Huda Metro Station
> 
> @Gessler bro please don't reply to such fanboys.
> 
> @Abingdonboy Yes i always verify before posting. F1 has this navy blue uniform with patch on right shoulder while QRT has dark blue uniform and they have yellow patch on left side. So they are F1 for sure.
> View attachment 398309
> 
> See the picture above right side. F1 joint ex with NSG.


Nice bro, your attention to detail always blows me away, keep it up!

+ any info/updates on NSG's plan to get their own (decommisioned) commercial a/c for exercise purposes (as opposed to their mockup in use right now)?

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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> Broadly, SSG's Zaheer unit is Pakistan's NSG equivalent but the comparison is pretty messy considering the differences in force structure and legal authority.
> 
> 
> Nice bro, your attention to detail always blows me away, keep it up!
> 
> + any info/updates on NSG's plan to get their own (decommisioned) commercial a/c for exercise purposes (as opposed to their mockup in use right now)?


Thanks. 
No updates on that.

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## Big Tank

Abingdonboy said:


> Broadly, SSG's Zaheer unit is Pakistan's NSG equivalent but the comparison is pretty messy considering the differences in force structure and legal authority.
> 
> 
> Nice bro, your attention to detail always blows me away, keep it up!
> 
> + any info/updates on NSG's plan to get their own (decommisioned) commercial a/c for exercise purposes (as opposed to their mockup in use right now)?



NSG is Paramilitary SF, therefore it cannot be compared with SSG's Zarrar Company which is Extreme Elite. NSG doesn't deal with Espionage, Covert Warfare and Clandestine Operations but merely a SWAT unit.


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## Abingdonboy

Mini Tank said:


> NSG is Paramilitary SF, therefore it cannot be compared with SSG's Zarrar Company which is Extreme Elite. NSG doesn't deal with Espionage, Covert Warfare and Clandestine Operations but merely a SWAT unit.


Firstly, the NSG is not merely a "SWAT unit".

And I had said it was a messy and imperfect comparison, Zaheer Company has a similar CT role but it's true, Pakistan has nothing that compares to NSG.


----------



## Big Tank

Abingdonboy said:


> Firstly, the NSG is not merely a "SWAT unit".
> 
> And I had said it was a messy and imperfect comparison, Zaheer Company has a similar CT role but it's true, Pakistan has nothing that compares to NSG.


Yes Zarrar Unit is used in such situations. But as i said earlier. We've Provincial Units which are equivalent to NSG


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## John Reese

Mini Tank said:


> Yes Zarrar Unit is used in such situations. But as i said earlier. We've Provincial Units which are equivalent to NSG


We too have SWAT teams in every State and union territory 

Should go through Indian police thread in PDF

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## Abingdonboy

Mini Tank said:


> We've Provincial Units which are equivalent to NSG


All major Indian towns and cities have such units also, NSG plays a different role to just another SWAT team/unit.

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## Gessler

John Reese said:


> We too have SWAT teams in every State and union territory
> 
> Should go through Indian police thread in PDF



Well, he didn't say India doesn't have SWAT teams. I think we can agree here that Pakistan does not have a unit that is similarly tasked & structured as the NSG. They choose a different approach.

Let's just leave it at that.

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## ShoutB

Indian army shelling Pakistani post across LOC

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando
Cornershot

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF in tral

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

6th Para Airborne

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## Gessler

Gessler said:


> Seeing a flood of images of NSG guys with the new uniform. *Now someone please give me a picture of NSG personnel in the new uniform WITH A VEST, HELMET AND FULL LOADOUT!*



Wish has come true...

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Hindustani78

*NSG commandos destroyed 59 live shells at Thakurpada in Shildaighar, Thane, on Wednesday morning. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*




*As many as 59 live shells were found in Thane nearly two years ago. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*






*Officials suspect that they are at least 50-years-old. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*





*A national security guard team from Delhi inspected the shells on Monday. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*




*The NSG team called for an immediate disposal of the shells. (Praful Gangurde / HT )*




*The Thane crime branch, , along with NSG commando, Thane bomb squad, fire brigade, local police station staff and an emergency ambulance carried out the detonation at a mine. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*




*While some of the shells were defused, some still contained explosives. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*





*Villagers were also asked to keep their distance from the spot while the detonation was ongoing. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*




*These shells were destroyed in a controlled explosion. (Praful Gangurde / HT)*





*Officials dug six 4-foot-deep pits. Five to six shells were put in each pit, which was then covered with soil and pebbles. (Praful Gangurde / HT )*




*The operation was a success. (Praful Gangurde / HT )*

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


----------



## Unknowncommando

10th Para SF desert scorpions
















7 Vikas SFF

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## Gessler

Para-SF in Kashmir

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG SAG
Commando

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## Hindustani78

The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh chairing a review meeting on the working of National Security Guard (NSG), in New Delhi on June 05, 2017.

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## hkdas

marcos

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## Abingdonboy

hkdas said:


> marcos
> View attachment 401755
> 
> 
> View attachment 401756
> View attachment 401757
> View attachment 401758
> View attachment 401759
> View attachment 401760
> View attachment 401761
> View attachment 401762
> 
> 
> View attachment 401763
> View attachment 401764
> View attachment 401765
> View attachment 401766
> View attachment 401767
> View attachment 401768
> View attachment 401769
> 
> 
> View attachment 401770
> View attachment 401771
> View attachment 401772


MARCOs are so disappointing these days, they used to be the best equipped Indian SF unit by a considerable margin but it doesn't seem like they've updated their equipment in almost a decade now, their equipment is inferior to a lot of VBSS units of Western navies.


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## Gessler

hkdas said:


> marcos
> View attachment 401769



You sure these are not Army guys from Yudh Abhyas 2010 at FOB Sparta (Alaska)?

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## hkdas

Gessler said:


> You sure these are not Army guys from Yudh Abhyas 2010 at FOB Sparta (Alaska)?


 no. they are marcos in kashmir.

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## hkdas

special frontier force

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## Hindustani78

New Delhi, June 05, 2017 23:05 IST
Updated: June 05, 2017 23:05 IST





Quick reponse: Air mobility is a must to cover short distances in case of a terror attack. | Photo Credit:  STRINGER/INDIA
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...for-2-years/article18724903.ece?homepage=true

* One of its helicopters crash-landed and the other is unfit for flying *
The only two helicopters available with the National Security Guard (NSG), India’s counter-terror force, have been grounded. It requires air mobility to cover short distances in case of a terror attack, but the force has been without a helicopter for two years.

Home Minister Rajnath Singh reviewed the functioning of the NSG on Monday. At the hour-long meeting, he was briefed by NSG Director-General Sudhir Pratap Singh and other officials. The Director-General informed the Minister that while an MI-5 helicopter crash-landed two years ago, the other was unfit to fly. “One option is to request the BSF’s air wing for at least two helicopters on a 24/7 basis. The Air Force is also there. Though the NSG can requisition any commercial airline, to move forces..., helicopters are required to make intervention in a small area,” an official of the Home Ministry said. Minister of State for Home Affairs Kiren Rijiju, Home Secretary Rajiv Mehrishi attended the meeting.


*Regional hubs*

The NSG was set up in 1984 as a federal contingency deployment force to tackle terrorism. After the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks, the government opened regional hubs of the NSG in Mumbai, Hyderabad, Chennai and Kolkata to reduce reaction time.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF




NSG During Training

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## Hindustani78

The high-speed motor boat has a central console that ensures excellent manoeuvrability. | Photo Credit: special arrangement


* Top sailors from Army and Telangana to be trained *
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/telangana/emesa-acquires-high-speed-boat/article18733033.ece


The Rigid Inflatable Boat (RIB) is equipped with a 50 HP (horse power) four-stroke best-in-class Yamaha OBM (out board motor) with the throttle and gear control also fitted by the Japanese world-leader in marine machinery.

“Its high bow arrow hull design makes it most suitable to cut through the waves effectively and with ease, even in the roughest of seas,” Lt. Col. Bhuwan Khare told _The Hindu_.

The inflatable upper section is made of imported Neoprene that offers high strength and longevity that comes with ultra violet ray protection, propped up by its rigid fibre hull.

The 5.4-metre long and 2.5-metre wide boat, when out of the water, will rest on a launch trolley. Capable of speed up to 25 knots, it packs enough power to tow, at a time, seven Laser Standard boats back to the shore and safety. A central console ensures excellent manoeuvrability.

“The EMESA went for it primarily to train top sailors from the Army and Telangana, besides using it as a boat for coaches to impart training or press into service in rescue or emergency operations,” said Lt. Col. Khare, Secretary, EMESA.

Since sailing rules prohibit the use of communication devices for participants, there have been instances of capsized boats going adrift in the open seas, driven by strong currents or tidal waves. “It’s a capability enhancer, a high utility vehicle that enables long term and more importantly, fearless training in the open sea,” concluded Lt. Col. Khare.


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## Unknowncommando

SPG







PARA SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> SPG


Counter Assualt Team member, rare to see a HQ pic of them- NICE!

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## Abingdonboy

NSG:

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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> Counter Assualt Team member, rare to see a HQ pic of them- NICE!



...much less one with a hydration pack!


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## Unknowncommando

10th PARA SF
Desert Scorpions

@Abingdonboy more coming bro

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 403014
> 
> NSG Commandos


Must be an old pic bro, Mp-5A4/5s are the norm now.

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## Unknowncommando

12th PARA SF & 10th PARA SF

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

MARCO carrying Python

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## Unknowncommando

Special Rangers Group (SRG) of NSG


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## Gessler

SFF (via Shatrujeet FB page)

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando

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## Unknowncommando

SG aka Mavericks



PARA SF










MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF with Mongolian Special Forces

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## Dash

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 398140
> View attachment 398141
> View attachment 398142
> View attachment 398143
> View attachment 398144
> View attachment 398145
> 
> View attachment 398151
> 
> NSG



What Renault vehicle are we using? Is that a norm for NSG?



Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 398008
> 
> NSG and Force One commando in the background. They do conduct joint exercises very often.
> @Abingdonboy



If I were a commando then I would have blown that damn hero Honda first!!


----------



## Abingdonboy

Dash said:


> What Renault vehicle are we using? Is that a norm for NSG?
> 
> !


Renualt Sherpa 2 ladder assualt platform and Sherpa "Light" utility platform, standard for the NSG now.

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## Unknowncommando

Balance Iroquois Exercise
NSG and US Army SF

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS
INS Abhimanyu

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## Unknowncommando

Tavor with ACOG sight










Shaheed Lance Naik OM PRAKASH

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## Grevion

Great pics bro! @Unknowncommando 
Have you ever thought about joining our place?

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## Crixus

Anyother info about him 


Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 404529
> View attachment 404530
> View attachment 404531
> View attachment 404532
> 
> Shaheed Lance Naik OM PRAKASH


----------



## Hindustani78

Crixus said:


> Anyother info about him



http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...-in-pampore/story-Uu8BdnhiwsxETqTEdUQp1J.html
Feb 22, 2016 12:00 IST

Om Prakash had joined the 5 J&K Rifles, and become a part of the 9 Para (Commando) battalion after taking up a commando course. He was awarded the Asadharan Suraksha Seva Praman Patra gallantry award on Independence Day in 2013.

*Lance naik Om Prakash (32) had been gunned down by a group of terrorists holed up in a government building in Pampore. Chikhal – the martyred soldier’s village in Himachal – mourned his loss. *


For 29-year-old Sanjay Prakash, having a brother in the armed forces was a matter of pride. Today, two days after a gunfight broke out between militants and security personnel near Pampore on the Jammu-Srinagar highway, the pride remains – albeit tainted by a deep gash of sorrow.

Sanjay was informed at 2 pm on Sunday that lance naik Om Prakash (32) had been gunned down by a group of terrorists holed up in a government building. The news left Sanjay crestfallen, but he was seized by an even greater problem – breaking the news to his brother’s wife, Krishna Devi (32), and daughters Muskan (7) and Simran (3).

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## Dash

Abingdonboy said:


> Renualt Sherpa 2 ladder assualt platform and Sherpa "Light" utility platform, standard for the NSG now.



In the legend Rajnikant style.

Coooll veryy coooll

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## Crixus

Oh now remember he was the other soldier who died along with captain Pawan oh man RIP ...you will always be rememberd


Hindustani78 said:


> http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...-in-pampore/story-Uu8BdnhiwsxETqTEdUQp1J.html
> Feb 22, 2016 12:00 IST
> 
> Om Prakash had joined the 5 J&K Rifles, and become a part of the 9 Para (Commando) battalion after taking up a commando course. He was awarded the Asadharan Suraksha Seva Praman Patra gallantry award on Independence Day in 2013.
> 
> *Lance naik Om Prakash (32) had been gunned down by a group of terrorists holed up in a government building in Pampore. Chikhal – the martyred soldier’s village in Himachal – mourned his loss. *
> 
> 
> For 29-year-old Sanjay Prakash, having a brother in the armed forces was a matter of pride. Today, two days after a gunfight broke out between militants and security personnel near Pampore on the Jammu-Srinagar highway, the pride remains – albeit tainted by a deep gash of sorrow.
> 
> Sanjay was informed at 2 pm on Sunday that lance naik Om Prakash (32) had been gunned down by a group of terrorists holed up in a government building. The news left Sanjay crestfallen, but he was seized by an even greater problem – breaking the news to his brother’s wife, Krishna Devi (32), and daughters Muskan (7) and Simran (3).


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## Unknowncommando

NSG




MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

Major Gaurav Arya and PARA SF Commandos
@Grevion which place ?

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

AK mod by FAB DEFENCE

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## Grevion

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 405258
> View attachment 405259
> 
> Major Gaurav Arya and PARA SF Commandos
> @Grevion which place ?


The other place. Where @PARIKRAMA has moved to.


----------



## Avijit

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 404529
> 
> Tavor with ACOG sight
> View attachment 404530
> View attachment 404531
> View attachment 404532
> 
> Shaheed Lance Naik OM PRAKASH


Which badge is that on his beret? SG?



Grevion said:


> The other place. Where @PARIKRAMA has moved to.


Do share which place..


----------



## Hindustani78

The NSG commandos performing Yoga, on the occasion of the 3rd International Day of Yoga – 2017, in Manesar, Haryana on June 21, 2017.


----------



## The Headache

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 405338
> View attachment 405339
> View attachment 405340
> View attachment 405341
> View attachment 405342
> View attachment 405343
> 
> AK mod by FAB DEFENCE


Didn't know that it was already in action. BTW, thanks for sharing these pics.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## The Headache

Nahan, Himachal Pradesh. Pic by Maj. (Ret) Gaurav Arya.



cerebrum@Assasin said:


> Is she a female??? Lol !!!


Are you?


----------



## Unknowncommando

M4 & Suppressed Tavor

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## Unknowncommando

SFF Indian Army

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Major Gaurav Arya and PARA SF Commandos


Have the PARA (SF) not got any new gear in the past 7 years? They seem to be standing still

+ same with MARCOs.

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## Unknowncommando

SFF


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## Unknowncommando

Seal trident patch is visible here
Navy Seals with PARA SF




21 PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO
Note the Scale on the knife

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## A Basu

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 406102
> 
> MARCO
> Note the Scale on the knife



Is there any special purpose for the scale?


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Gessler

A Basu said:


> Is there any special purpose for the scale?



Helps you know exactly how deep you stuck it in a mujahid. It's like an engine oil dip.

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## Hindustani78

Gessler said:


> Helps you know exactly how deep you stuck it in a mujahid. It's like an engine oil dip.



Aryans and Ikhwans are really Dharam Yudhas and Mujahideens. And we are bonded by religious scriptures and traditions .


----------



## Unknowncommando

MARCOS mock drill
@A Basu can be used as multitool i guess.

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## Unknowncommando

Special Group

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## The Headache

Shaheed Major Sudhir Valia.

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## Abingdonboy

NSG at the 9th Annual Warrior Competition, 2017, in Jordan:

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## nik22

I think NSG is an overrated force like Marcos, Garud. All are yet to prove themselves. It could be due to lack of opportunity but NSG's performance, specially bomb disposal was quite dismal during Pathankot attack.
Only SF that have proved again and again is Para SF.


----------



## cerberus

nik22 said:


> I think NSG is an overrated force like Marcos, Garud. All are yet to prove themselves. It could be due to lack of opportunity but NSG's performance, specially bomb disposal was quite dismal during Pathankot attack.
> Only SF that have proved again and again is Para SF.


Lol NSG is over rated either you Fanboy or dumb Do you know there history of CQB and CT Ops of NSG



nik22 said:


> I think NSG is an overrated force like Marcos, Garud. All are yet to prove themselves. It could be due to lack of opportunity but NSG's performance, specially bomb disposal was quite dismal during Pathankot attack.
> Only SF that have proved again and again is Para SF.


What happen Para SF in Kargil Or EDM building ???


SFs are not super humans Mighty SAS operators were subdued by Village folks in Libya

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## Abingdonboy

nik22 said:


> I think NSG is an overrated force like Marcos, Garud. All are yet to prove themselves. It could be due to lack of opportunity but NSG's performance, specially bomb disposal was quite dismal during Pathankot attack.
> Only SF that have proved again and again is Para SF.


NSG has proven themselves whenever called upon, 26/11 and Pathankot are perfect examples, they ended both operations and restored order.

Fact is NSG are in every corner of India and working tirelessly to protect the citizens of India 24/7 but they receive no attention or praise for this work nor do they seek it. In recent years their operational tempo has increased dramatically to the point they have to cancel their own raising day celebrations because so many teams are foreward deployed.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 407027
> 
> NSG Commando


NSG should at least upgrade to the SIG-556 or just ditch the SIG family once and for all, these 550/2/3 are starting to look pretty outdated.

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## GuardianRED

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG should at least upgrade to the SIG-556 or just ditch the SIG family once and for all, these 550/2/3 are starting to look pretty outdated.


Just reading that the parent SIG as in 2017 has discontinued the 550 family from its product line. .... (opps). What do you suggest?

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## Abingdonboy

GuardianRED said:


> Just reading that the parent SIG as in 2017 has discontinued the 550 family from its product line. .... (opps). What do you suggest?


I don't think SIG will discontinue the entire line, the 550 is an old design so naturally they will phase it out but the 556 is a relatively modern design and they will likely produce new derivatives in the future also.

@GuardianRED SIG-556 with Gujarat Police special response team (Chetak):
















But for NSG I would like some more extensive customisations:

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## GuardianRED

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't think SIG will discontinue the entire line, the 550 is an old design so naturally they will phase it out but the 556 is a relatively modern design and they will likely produce new derivatives in the future also.
> 
> @GuardianRED SIG-556 with Gujarat Police special response team (Chetak):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for NSG I would like some more extensive customisations:


Agree, surely they will soon upgrade to the new model - of which, (looking at their Site). The SiG 716 is Mean!

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## Gessler

GuardianRED said:


> Agree, surely they will soon upgrade to the new model - of which, (looking at their Site). The SiG 716 is Mean!



Looks excellent indeed...why didn't I notice this before??






That too in 308! Can be easily converted to DMR which means it can also replace the SG550-1.

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## saumyasupratik

Abingdonboy said:


> I don't think SIG will discontinue the entire line, the 550 is an old design so naturally they will phase it out but the 556 is a relatively modern design and they will likely produce new derivatives in the future also.
> 
> @GuardianRED SIG-556 with Gujarat Police special response team (Chetak):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for NSG I would like some more extensive customisations:



Sorry for going off-topic but I wanted to clear up some mis-understandings regarding 516/716, 550/750 and 556 etc.

The 516, 716, 556 and MCX are all from the SIG Sauer Inc based at Exeter, New Hampshire, USA and not Swiss Made. The 556 is basically an 'Americanised' 551, it's also not of the same Swiss quality.

The 551SB/LB, 553SB/LB and 751 series however are thoroughbred Swiss, manufactured by SIG Sauer GmbH's Swiss subsidiary Swiss Arms AG. There are no plans to discontinue the SG551/553/751 line as of now.

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## Shatrujeet

SFF




PARA SF

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## Lord Of Gondor

Shatrujeet said:


> SFF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PARA SF


Thanks for all the pictures and videos!
Any chance for more SG pictures?


----------



## Unknowncommando

Garud

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF & RR in action at Dialgam , Anatnag Encounter

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## Kinetic

^^^ 

Nice new gears, now give all of them NVG and MCIWS. 








Gessler said:


> Helps you know exactly how deep you stuck it in a mujahid. It's like an engine oil dip.



Nice reply. How deep you are going inside a terrorist's body does matters. lol

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## bipi@342

Can anyone identify this weapon?


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## Shatrujeet

bipi@342 said:


> View attachment 407773
> 
> Can anyone identify this weapon?


C 90 ROCKET LAUNCHER

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## Shatrujeet

@Zarvan @Spring Onion @DESERT FIGHTER @Horus @Imran Khan @Syed.Ali.Haider
Can you provide some information and details regarding the latest variant of RPG and its ammunition being used in Pakistani Army.I am preparing a comparative post between it and Indian Army CGmk3.I need the information and photos for it.

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## Unknowncommando

CIJWS T-SHIRT
PARA SF Commandos

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## Shatrujeet

So here we present to you an exclusive pic of BULGARIAN AK aka 'BULGI'( a moniker given to it by SG operators) of a SG operator, It's mounted with an EOTECH holographic sight.This is a personal favorite weapon of a SG operator, who loves it for its pinpoint accuracy and reliability.

This is the first ,in a series of Special Group weapons and gear,more will follow in future.
@Lord Of Gondor here's another picture of BULGI used by SG and YES many more SG pics will be posted in future.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

SG

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

MARCO Sniper

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## Unknowncommando

SFF

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## Lord Of Gondor

NSG Personnel




Image Courtesy: fb.com/shatrujeet009
Para SF member with a friggin' crossbow 




Image Courtesy: Team INDRA

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO carrying Crossbow and Mp5
Picture is 7-8 years old.

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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
07-July, 2017 20:31 IST
*NSG organises first International Aviation Security seminar *

India's 26th highest monumental flag installed at NSG campus 

The Minister of State for Skill Development & Entrepreneurship (I/C) Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy attended the second day of the first International Aviation Security Seminar in Manesar today. National Security Guard (NSG) has organised the seminar, with the aim of bringing all major stakeholders under one roof and facilitate them sharing views/opinion, discussions, brain storming with the matters concerning Aviation Security. 

Prominent personalities/speakers from various organizations/aviation sector delivered lectures and shared valuable views on the matter of aviation security. Weapons and equipment were also displayed showcasing the current weapons and systems used by the forces and cutting edge systems considered for future planning. 

Secretary, Ministry of Civil Aviation, Shri Rajiv Nayan Choubey and DG, NSG Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh also attended the seminar. The Minister of State for Civil Aviation Shri Jayant Sinha addressed the seminar yesterday. 

About 300 delegates/officials from the Ministry of Home Affairs, Ministry of Civil Aviation, Directorate General of Civil Aviation, Airports Authority of India, Bureau of Civil Aviation Security of India, Central Industrial Security Force, State Police Forces, Airports, Airlines, Foreign Security /Aviation of USA, France, Germany and Sri Lanka participated in the Seminar. 

Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy also hoisted the National Flag at NSG Campus, during the National Flag Foundation programme, being organised by NSG today. The Force has got a 30X45 National Flag (Tiranga) on a 100 feet monumental flagpole installed in its Campus. It is the India's 67th Flagpole and 26th highest Monumental Flagpole. 

*****

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## Unknowncommando

SG Maverick

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 409732
> 
> Garuds


LOL, 8 operators, 5 DIFFERENT uniforms.

Garuds must be doing this on purpose now.....

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## Abingdonboy

Excalibørk said:


> Some units do it for different specializations.
> 
> Example: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nord...ideos-and-history.347504/page-54#post-9641298
> 
> Same unit (FSK), four operators, four specializations, four uniforms.


I wish that was the case  

Nope, the Garuds have a different reason; apparently it is because the Garud unit is so small that their teams are split across multiple operational deployments and only come together to train or take part in these kind of public events hence having different combat uniforms.

Doesn't explain why each operator can't have multiple uniforms so as to wear the same one during these occasions but alas.......


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Shatrujeet

SFF





SFF





SFF





SG operative's khukri

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## Shatrujeet

The six men hit team of PARA SF. Smallest but the deadliest.
Each of these six men specializes in a specific skill set i.e

1. weapons specialist
2. communication specialist
3. medic
4. Navigation specialist
5. demolition specialist
6. squad commander

This 6 man squad is capable of undertaking any sort of clandestine mission by itself. 
Do notice the variety of weapons carried by'em, this ensures that these men can sustain themselves for longer periods in the enemy territory and can cause havoc at their will.

JAI HIND

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Sage

Abingdonboy said:


> NSG at the 9th Annual Warrior Competition, 2017, in Jordan:


What was their score/achievement during KASOTIC 17 ?


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sage said:


> What was their score/achievement during KASOTIC 17 ?


No idea, they only the top 1-2 "winners" are announced AFAIK.


----------



## Sage

Abingdonboy said:


> No idea, they only the top 1-2 "winners" are announced AFAIK.


Chinese have been scoring first two position almost every time.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sage said:


> Chinese have been scoring first two position almost every time.


Doesn't surprise me, communists in general crave such validation and seek opportunities to generate propoganda for their domestic audience. Wouldn't surprise me if the teams they sent were their very best and had trained for these specific drills for years/months.

There's little real correlation between these competitions and the abilities of a unit in a real world operation.

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## Sage

Abingdonboy said:


> Doesn't surprise me, communists in general crave such validation and seek opportunities to generate propoganda for their domestic audience. Wouldn't surprise me if the teams they sent were their very best and had trained for these specific drills for years/months.
> 
> There's little real correlation between these competitions and the abilities of a unit in a real world operation.


For an international competition, one has to send the very best. There is no element of propaganda attached to it. Getting trained for a certain competition is dedication. Chinese have performed excellently in real combat as well. At least, an Indian should not doubt it.


----------



## Abingdonboy

Sage said:


> For an international competition, one has to send the very best. There is no element of propaganda attached to it. Getting trained for a certain competition is dedication.


Nope, some countries will send their instructors and dedicated teams for specific events, others will send operational units with little preperation for the specific events.

Of course the value of propoganda enters into such things.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Sage

Abingdonboy said:


> Nope, some countries will send their instructors and dedicated teams for specific events, others will send operational units with little preperation for the specific events.
> 
> Of course the value of propoganda enters into such things.


You send a dedicated team or an operational unit, the challenges there in the competition are set in such a manner that it does reveal the overall combat efficiency of any soldier performing there.


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF

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## GuardianRED

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 411587
> View attachment 411588
> View attachment 411589
> View attachment 411590
> 
> Para SF


Screen shots??? Source or post the Vid Link pls

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## Unknowncommando

GuardianRED said:


> Screen shots??? Source or post the Vid Link pls


Video is removed from YouTube I guess. Search it on Republic Tv website.
My mistake these guys are Paratroopers not SF. There were two episodes one of SF & one of airborne troops.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Video is removed from YouTube I guess. Search it on Republic Tv website.
> My mistake these guys are Paratroopers not SF. There were two episodes one of SF & one of airborne troops.


Was going to say these guys look like PARA (Airborne) and not SFs

Paratroopers:

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> Video is removed from YouTube I guess. Search it on Republic Tv website.
> My mistake these guys are Paratroopers not SF. There were two episodes one of SF & one of airborne troops.


Both episodes were SO dull, what a disappointment. Most of the time sat around talking and talking basics, nothing new was shown in either episode!

I guess the fact that they filmed at the SFTS (SF training school) and not an operational unit means there wasn't much too show or that they could show but still  the only thing cool was the few shots of the water infiltration training:

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## Abingdonboy

A Sherpa "Light" for the NSG out in the "wild", spotted in Delhi:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886836615246618624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886822911511842819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886899421052411904
Looks to be brand spanking new (protective wrapping on the steps), perhaps on its way to the unit?

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## Lord Of Gondor

Image courtesy: Shatrujeet009

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## Gessler

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Image courtesy: Shatrujeet009



I believe this guy is from MARCOS? Glad to see Tavors in tan color.

Edit: Found out this guy is Para-SF (thought it could be MARCOS because I thought the guys in white in background were Navy). And the color is Flat Dark Earth...heard of it before but I still prefer to call it desert tan

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## Lord Of Gondor

Gessler said:


> I believe this guy is from MARCOS? Glad to see Tavors in tan color.


Image caption mentioned that he is a Para SF operator.


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## Shatrujeet

NSG's Renault sherpa's interior














Special Group









Marcos - from 1992





SFF soldier with Negev LMG and Khukri.





Straight from the LOC

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## Abingdonboy

Shatrujeet said:


>


This soldier bro isn't Special Group.


----------



## Shatrujeet

Abingdonboy said:


> This soldier bro isn't Special Group.



I Never said that he's Special Group, buddy. 
Hey @Abingdonboy your videos are pretty awesome, keep it up buddy!

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## Stephen Cohen

Shatrujeet said:


> I Never said that he's Special Group, buddy.
> Hey @Abingdonboy your videos are pretty awesome, keep it up buddy!



Hi ; Are you Hammer Head From D-F-I


----------



## Shatrujeet

Stephen Cohen said:


> Hi ; Are you Hammer Head From D-F-I



Naah, but his friend from ***

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## Abingdonboy

Shatrujeet said:


> I Never said that he's Special Group, buddy.
> Hey @Abingdonboy your videos are pretty awesome, keep it up buddy!


Thanks bro, great to have you on here- your work is exceptional keep it up!

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## Stephen Cohen

Shatrujeet said:


> Naah, but his friend from ***



Is Hammer head Allright ; He has not posted on D-F-I for some days now 

He brings us good news of LOC action


----------



## Shatrujeet

He's fit and fine but a bit busy these days, that's why he's is not posting, he'll be back soon. Thanks for your solicitous inquiry about his welfare.

please follow our page you'll find regular updates on LOC there.



Stephen Cohen said:


> Is Hammer head Allright ; He has not posted on D-F-I for some days now
> 
> He brings us good news of LOC action

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## Lord Of Gondor

I wish the Army gets modern sniper rifles. The Dragunovs are getting increasingly old in the tooth.
The Marcos have the nice Galatz and the NSG have the brilliant PSG but what equips the Para SF/Vikas etc.?
@Shatrujeet :Any answers brother?
BTW, thanks for the really rare images.


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG's new Ford Super Duty F550/540




Renault Sherpa light

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## Lord Of Gondor

> Now MARCOS helping Army flush out terrorists in Kashmir
> 
> The Indian Army is carrying out an extensive drive against terrorists in Kashmir and now even involving Marine commandos (MARCOS) for clearing them out from the islands in the Jhelum river.
> 
> *The Navy has deployed a team of 30 Marine commandos, under a Lieutenant Commander, permanently in the Wular Lake to prevent any terrorist activity there.During a recent search and destroy operation in the Jhelum river, Army had also used the services of the MARCOS to flush out any terrorists who could be using that location for hiding from the forces.*
> 
> In recent times, the Army has been going out in far-flung areas to trace terrorists who are already under pressure from security forces due to relentless counter-terrorist operations. *The team of MARCOS is working alongside 5 Rashtriya Rifles deployed in Kashmir’s Watlab area near Wular lake.*
> 
> Army sources said the highlands in Jhelum have a certain type of plantation which can be used by the terrorists to hide them and their equipment. *The MARCOS have the capability to dive underwater and carry out extensive searches in these areas.*







From Team INDRA FB page

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF & Kyrgyz SF
Ex. Khanjar 2015

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG's Armour

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

RR GHATAKs

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 413868
> 
> View attachment 413869
> 
> RR GHATAKs


Those plate carriers......

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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> Those plate carriers......



I've known the second picture to have been around for quite a while...the first one is new though (to me at least).

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Water Car Engineer said:


>



The programme didn't show the sniper even though Maj. Gaurav Arya mentioned about it.

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## Unknowncommando

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> The programme didn't show the sniper even though Maj. Gaurav Arya mentioned about it.


Second Part is uploaded on website bro.
@Gessler Yes i deliberately posted the second picture because of the same plate carrier & same modified AK.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA Commandos during Kargil war & other various events & locations




PARA SF Sniper

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commando

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## Unknowncommando

SPG Commandos
@Abingdonboy

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## Mustang06

Abingdonboy said:


> A Sherpa "Light" for the NSG out in the "wild", spotted in Delhi:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886836615246618624
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886822911511842819
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886899421052411904
> Looks to be brand spanking new (protective wrapping on the steps), perhaps on its way to the unit?


Kitna deti hai?

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

SFF










NSG

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## Unknowncommando



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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


MARCOs sniper during the evacuation of Indian nationals from Yeman

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## Gessler

More snaps from Major Gaurav Arya's visit to SFTS -

Para-SF fibre-optic cables coupled with tactical screens -










FAB Defense side-rail mounted flashlight clamp on Para AKs -


















*PLS-1 mount*, meant for 1" diameter tactical flashlights -





https://www.fab-defense.com/en/cate...laser-mounts/id-22/flashlight-side-mount.html

@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando Whoa I didn't know even Paras started using FAB AKs!

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## Unknowncommando

Gessler said:


> More snaps from Major Gaurav Arya's visit to SFTS -
> 
> Para-SF fibre-optic cables coupled with tactical screens -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAB Defense side-rail mounted flashlight clamp on Para AKs -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PLS-1 mount*, meant for 1" diameter tactical flashlights -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.fab-defense.com/en/cate...laser-mounts/id-22/flashlight-side-mount.html
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando Whoa I didn't know even Paras started using FAB AKs!


Army recieved first then Assam Rifles




Assam Rifles Jawan




Army

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## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> Para-SF fibre-optic cables coupled with tactical screens -


Inducted by PARA (SF) after interacting with NSG during joint-CT exercises, good to see this kind of learning and building from one another within Indian elite forces.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
@Abingdonboy @Gessler @Lord Of Gondor 
I am happy to watch someone like Major Gaurav Arya than that noob Rajeev Ranjan from NDTV. Atleast he has some knowledge in technical stuff. Rajeev Ranjan was simply pathetic. Don't know what happened to NDTV nowadays there are no Watan Ke Rakhwale episodes.

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## Lord Of Gondor

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 415431
> View attachment 415432
> View attachment 415433
> 
> PARA SF
> @Abingdonboy @Gessler @Lord Of Gondor
> I am happy to watch someone like Major Gaurav Arya than that noob Rajeev Ranjan from NDTV. Atleast he has some knowledge in technical stuff. Rajeev Ranjan was simply pathetic. Don't know what happened to NDTV nowadays there are no Watan Ke Rakhwale episodes.


True!
But I liked Maroof Raza, the Rajya Sabha TV presenter(NSGwala episode) and Nitin Gokhale more.
I really enjoyed Rocky and Mayur too (Because of the food )

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> I am happy to watch someone like Major Gaurav Arya than that noob Rajeev Ranjan from NDTV. Atleast he has some knowledge in technical stuff. Rajeev Ranjan was simply pathetic. Don't know what happened to NDTV nowadays there are no Watan Ke Rakhwale episodes.


I definetly prefer Major Arya to Rajeev Ranjan but I think the Major comes across a little too dramatic also- this could be compulsions of his network of course.

What happened to NDTV's defence reporting though? No more "Jai Hind with Rocky and Mayur", no more "Watan Ke Rakhwale" not even more "Jai Jawan"

I have to agree with @Lord Of Gondor , Maroof Raza was simply a class apart- the best defence broadcaster India has ever had (IMHO), a former IA officer (so very proffesional and knowledgeable) and fine fine reporter with an ability to articulate that I have not seen present in any other broadcaster.


Honourable mentions for Nitin Gokhle and Vishnu Som but both are a little dry and Vishnu Som can be rather naive.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## paritosh

Abingdonboy said:


> I definetly prefer Major Arya to Rajeev Ranjan but I think the Major comes across a little too dramatic also- this could be compulsions of his network of course.
> 
> What happened to NDTV's defence reporting though? No more "Jai Hind with Rocky and Mayur", no more "Watan Ke Rakhwale" not even more "Jai Jawan"
> 
> I have to agree with @Lord Of Gondor , Maroof Raza was simply a class apart- the best defence broadcaster India has ever had (IMHO), a former IA officer (so very proffesional and knowledgeable) and fine fine reporter with an ability to articulate that I have not seen present in any other broadcaster.
> 
> 
> Honourable mentions for Nitin Gokhle and Vishnu Som but both are a little dry and Vishnu Som can be rather naive.


Maroof Raza was the right mix of aggression and subject matter expertise

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## Hindustani78

The Minister of State for Skill Development & Entrepreneurship (Independent Charge), Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy addressing at the Closing Ceremony of the First International Aviation Security Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar, Gurugram on July 07, 2017.





The Minister of State for Skill Development & Entrepreneurship (Independent Charge), Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy at the Closing Ceremony of the First International Aviation Security Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar, Gurugram on July 07, 2017.




The Minister of State for Skill Development & Entrepreneurship (Independent Charge), Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy planting a sapling, at the Closing Ceremony of the First International Aviation Security Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar, Gurugram on July 07, 2017. The Secretary, Ministry of Civil Aviation, Shri R.N. Choubey is also seen.




The Minister of State for Skill Development & Entrepreneurship (Independent Charge), Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy at the Closing Ceremony of the First International Aviation Security Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar, Gurugram on July 07, 2017. The Secretary, Ministry of Civil Aviation, Shri R.N. Choubey is also seen.

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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
07-July, 2017 20:31 IST
*NSG organises first International Aviation Security seminar *

India's 26th highest monumental flag installed at NSG campus 

The Minister of State for Skill Development & Entrepreneurship (I/C) Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy attended the second day of the first International Aviation Security Seminar in Manesar today. National Security Guard (NSG) has organised the seminar, with the aim of bringing all major stakeholders under one roof and facilitate them sharing views/opinion, discussions, brain storming with the matters concerning Aviation Security. 

Prominent personalities/speakers from various organizations/aviation sector delivered lectures and shared valuable views on the matter of aviation security. Weapons and equipment were also displayed showcasing the current weapons and systems used by the forces and cutting edge systems considered for future planning. 

Secretary, Ministry of Civil Aviation, Shri Rajiv Nayan Choubey and DG, NSG Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh also attended the seminar. The Minister of State for Civil Aviation Shri Jayant Sinha addressed the seminar yesterday. 

About 300 delegates/officials from the Ministry of Home Affairs, Ministry of Civil Aviation, Directorate General of Civil Aviation, Airports Authority of India, Bureau of Civil Aviation Security of India, Central Industrial Security Force, State Police Forces, Airports, Airlines, Foreign Security /Aviation of USA, France, Germany and Sri Lanka participated in the Seminar. 

Shri Rajiv Pratap Rudy also hoisted the National Flag at NSG Campus, during the National Flag Foundation programme, being organised by NSG today. The Force has got a 30X45 National Flag (Tiranga) on a 100 feet monumental flagpole installed in its Campus. It is the India's 67th Flagpole and 26th highest Monumental Flagpole. 

*****

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
@Abingdonboy @Gessler @Lord Of Gondor
Your views on this plate carrier ? This covers more area

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## Ahmet Pasha

Unknowncommando said:


> Army recieved first then Assam Rifles
> View attachment 415248
> 
> Assam Rifles Jawan
> View attachment 415249
> 
> Army



Looks alot like CZ BREN 1
P.S is this the same para sf that dresses up in fake long wigs and beards to impersonate taliban and kill innocent people in Pakistan. To wage your dirty assymetric war a la manohar parrikar style??


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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 415949
> 
> PARA SF
> @Abingdonboy @Gessler @Lord Of Gondor
> Your views on this plate carrier ? This covers more area


Looks decent enough, definetly a step above what they had before.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS




PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando
Glock 26

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando

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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
08-August, 2017 17:55 IST
*Security Cover *

At present there are 288 threat based protectees (Z+ =25, Z =61, Y+ =113, Y =19, X =70) in the Central list. There is no fixed number of persons, other than VVIPs, Cabinet and other Ministers, to whom security is provided. 

Security is provided on the basis of threat assessment of individuals and the category of security (Z+, Z, Y+, Y& X) is decided on the basis of nature and gravity of the threat. Threat assessment is done by the security agencies to determine the nature and gravity of threat faced by an individual. 

Security arrangements for the Central Protectees was last reviewed in the meeting held on 18.07.2017. 

This was stated by the Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Hansraj Gangaram Ahir in a written reply to question Shri R.P.Marutharajaa in the Lok Sabha today. 

****


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## desimorty

> Looks alot like CZ BREN 1
> P.S is this the same para sf that dresses up in fake long wigs and beards to impersonate taliban and kill innocent people in Pakistan. To wage your dirty assymetric war a la manohar parrikar style??


Why the hell would they dress up like the Taliban to attack Pakistan? They can hire, gun men inside Pak and Afghanistan to kill Pakistanis' Even drug lords can do this let alone intelligence agencies. 
Question for you. How does Pakistan cause terror in Afghanistan...if it wanted to?
send SSG? or send trained gunmen, druglords for some stash of cash on suicidal mission? Better yet, have the SSG train those gunmen, and then paythe gunmen to spread terror on commision basis. Incentive. Thunda no?

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## Brahmaputra Mail

SF or RR ?

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## Avijit

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Looks alot like CZ BREN 1
> P.S is this the same para sf that dresses up in fake long wigs and beards to impersonate taliban and kill innocent people in Pakistan. To wage your dirty assymetric war a la manohar parrikar style??


Lol dude. Para SF is more involved in these areas than you can comprehend.


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## j20611

these guys look like they're gonna get sniped in the head


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## GuardianRED

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> View attachment 417209
> 
> SF or RR ?


Let not say anything or better still "it can be anyone"


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## Ahmet Pasha

Funny cuz some of your countrymen were denying this



Avijit said:


> Lol dude. Para SF is more involved in these areas than you can comprehend.


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## Omega007

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Funny cuz some of your countrymen were denying this



Given the tribal nature of a sizable portion of your population coupled with the raging gun culture, do you really think one would need to send their SF operatives to do the dirty jobs??And why do you blame only us for everything wrong being happening in your country??Your relationship with Iran and Afghanistan isn't particularly brotherly, they might be involved as well, at least in some of the cases, don't you think??

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## Ahmet Pasha

Yeah u r right......considering ur monkey caught was based in Iran.


Omega007 said:


> Given the tribal nature of a sizable portion of your population coupled with the raging gun culture, do you really think one would need to send their SF operatives to do the dirty jobs??And why do you blame only us for everything wrong being happening in your country??Your relationship with Iran and Afghanistan isn't particularly brotherly, they might be involved as well, at least in some of the cases, don't you think??


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## Omega007

Ahmet Pasha said:


> Yeah u r right......considering ur monkey caught was based in Iran.


And yet you haven't been able to submit a shred of evidence sufficient enough to incriminate him in the international court, so yeah, some proof.

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> View attachment 417209
> 
> SF or RR ?


RR.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF operator

Sab accha chalu rehta bas har thode mahine baad some random **** pops up here and post some random comment. I have rarely seen a pakistani member commenting something related to SF or gear or informative content here. Please don't derail the thread guys. Don't mess things up if you can't contribute.

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## Ahmet Pasha

U guys should follow ur own advice then and stop derailing pakistani threads 


Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 417289
> 
> PARA SF operator
> 
> Sab accha chalu rehta bas har thode mahine baad some random **** pops up here and post some random comment. I have rarely seen a pakistani member commenting something related to SF or gear or informative content here. Please don't derail the thread guys. Don't mess things up if you can't contribute.


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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs:

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Civil Aviation
10-August, 2017 17:35 IST
*Surprise Drill to Check Security at Airports *


The Bureau of Civil Aviation Security organises surprise drill/dummy checks to ensure the security of the airports in the country.The details of surprise drill conducted at airports by BCAS during the last three years are as under:-




S.No
Year
Number of Security Drills


1
2014
42


2
2015
96


3
2016
84


4
Up to July 2017
56




This information was given by Minister of State for Civil Aviation Shri Jayant Sinha in a written reply to a question in the Lok Sabha today.

****** *

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## Unknowncommando



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## PatriotLover

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 417465



Night vision goggles during the day.....


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## CONNAN

PatriotLover said:


> Night vision goggles during the day.....



it is just for Photo Op's

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## Tshering22

Abingdonboy said:


> MARCOs:


Honestly.. we have so many different patterns of camouflage within the same units that it might freaking confuse the enemy straight ki ye saale hain kya? [emoji23][emoji23]

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## Lord Of Gondor

> MARCO carrying Negev LMG
> The Few The Fearless


-From Team INDRA FB page

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

SF in Kashmir

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## Jamwal's

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Lord Of Gondor

Para SF in the valley:

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## Jamwal's

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

SFF

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## Abingdonboy

SPG conduct an emergency extraction drill at Red Fort ahead of the PM's I-Day speech (note the kevlar ballistic shield being deployed)

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## Jamwal's

Para SF (old pic)

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Lt. Gen. PC Katoch had recommended in his book that a separate SF regt. be formed instead of SF being attached to Parachute Regt. Any development on this ? I guess army is not keen on this.


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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Lt. Gen. PC Katoch had recommended in his book that a separate SF regt. be formed instead of SF being attached to Parachute Regt. Any development on this ? I guess army is not keen on this.


AFAIK the IA had trailed this out in the 90s but with mixed results, now the tri-service Special Ops Division (SOD) to be later transitioned into a full fledged combat command (SOCOM) will be the way foreward.

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## Jamwal's

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=772960319544172

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## Lord Of Gondor

@Abingdonboy
Looks like SPG have access to an expensive Belgian arsenal.




Image Courtesy: @tharun at DeeEffEye
Other FN weapons with the SPG:

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Jamwal's said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=772960319544172










Lord Of Gondor said:


>


 Is that FN-SCAR ?

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> Is that FN-SCAR ?


Yup


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## ashok mourya

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=844325122293400

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## Unknowncommando

SPG Commando carrying SCAR H with ACOG

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## Mustang06

Abingdonboy said:


> Yup


Any other unit operaing SCAR?


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## Lord Of Gondor

Mustang06 said:


> Any other unit operaing SCAR?


The Special Group has them, IIRC.

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## Mustang06

Lord Of Gondor said:


> The Special Group has them, IIRC.


Thanks bud! Looks like SPG are equipped with best weapons out there.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos in Delhi

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS
INS Abhimanyu

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 418834
> View attachment 418835
> 
> NSG Commandos in Delhi


Really hope Delhi Police's SWAT team and their other armed response units can get their equipment up to this kind of standard in the near future.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Jamwal's

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=769455066561364

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## Lord Of Gondor

> Indian Army Special Forces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Devils in full gear


Courtesy: Team INDRA FB Page

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## Unknowncommando

Special Group Commando

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## Unknowncommando

NSG & US Army SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 419501
> 
> NSG & US Army SF


I really wish we could see more pics from the NSG-US SF joint exercises, so far we have 3 pics only.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Sniper





US Marines with Indian Army 4th Gurkha Battalion
Exercise Shatrujeet 2011

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 419538
> 
> PARA SF Sniper
> 
> View attachment 419541
> 
> Marines with 4th Gurkha Battalion



I think this is the first time I'm seeing USMC together with any Indian forces.


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## Abingdonboy

Gessler said:


> I think this is the first time I'm seeing USMC together with any Indian forces.


USMC has been training with the IA's amphibous brigade for a while bro.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Naga NSG Commandos

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## Brahmaputra Mail

https://www.northeasttoday.in/ac-jackets-for-indian-special-forces-soon-manohar-parrikar/

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## Gessler

Abingdonboy said:


> USMC has been training with the IA's amphibous brigade for a while bro.



Any pictures of these?


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## karajlo

i have noticed quite a lot asian (slanted eyes) members in your special forces...who are they


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## Star Wars

karajlo said:


> i have noticed quite a lot asian (slanted eyes) members in your special forces...who are they



Folks from north east india have such facial features.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS , NSG & CISF Commandos Together at NSG Manesar training center.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Sniper

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## Unknowncommando

NSG's new Ford F550 Superduty with MARS ladder platform










HK PSG 1
M249 SAW LMG
MGL

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG's new Ford F550 Superduty with MARS ladder platform


Never seen this method of infiltration- fast roping behind a barrier/wall using an aerial assualt platform, very clever!

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## Hindustani78

Aug 23, 2017 17:48 IST



*The Parachute Regiment is the Indian Army’s airborne infantry division. Recognised by the red beret and their insignia of the parachute, wings and an upward dagger the paratroopers are a specialised force capable of rapid aerial deployment and fast response action in hostile territories. Instrumental in various operations over the course of India’s military history -their most recent the 2016 surgical strikes- the regiment trains recruits at the Parachute Regiment Training Center in Bengaluru. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*
*



*
*The first Indian airborne regiment, the 50th Parachute Brigade was established in 1945 and saw action during World War II in Burma as part of Operation Dracula. Post war demobilisation saw the troops disbanded and returned to their parent regiments. Independent India raised its own airborne division in 1952 from amongst these para designated forces, starting with 3 battalions. This number has now swelled to 16 battalions of which 8 are the Para Commandos, now called the Special Forces. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*






*Recruits climb vertical ropes during a training session at the Parachute Regiment Training Centre in Bengaluru, India. The regiment saw first war action in 1971 with their deployment in Tangail, greatly speeding up the liberation of Bangladesh. Among the first Indian troops to enter Dhaka, commandos of the parachute regiment also played roles in Rajasthan and Jammu and Kashmir during the ‘71 war. They were also involved in the recapture of Mushkoh and Batalik sectors in the Kargil war. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*






*Recruits walk high altitude beams during a manoeuvre called the confidence walk. The parachute regiment had earlier played peacekeeping and medical roles during the Koran War, providing assistance to UN and Republic of Korea’s troops along with humanitarian assistance. The regiment earned the title of the ‘Maroon Angels’ for their endeavours. Over the years active engagements have also taken them to Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Africa. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*






*The rigorous training of these soldiers who live by the regimental motto of ‘Shatrujit’ or conqueror involves extensive short range warfare involving shooting, grenade handling and sniper training. Hand to hand combat, martial arts, infiltration practices and the eponymous parachute descent also go in to the making of an Indian paratrooper --a period that lasts 3.5 years for the special forces operators. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*






*The rigorous training of these soldiers who live by the regimental motto of ‘Shatrujit’ or conqueror involves extensive short range warfare involving shooting, grenade handling and sniper training. Hand to hand combat, martial arts, infiltration practices and the eponymous parachute descent also go in to the making of an Indian paratrooper --a period that lasts 3.5 years for the special forces operators. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*







*Members of the parachute regiment also hold the distinction of conducting India’s first overseas military intervention under ‘Operation Cactus’ during the 1988 Maldives coup d’état which was foiled by the engagement of the parachute regiment and their thwarting of the People’s Liberation Organisation of Tamil Eelam. The effort strengthened India’s ties with the island nation. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*






*The training for the special forces battalions of the parachute regiment, while continual is also among the longest anywhere. Once deemed airborne, a paratrooper has the option of moving towards specialised operations with training testing human extremes both physically and mentally. One is only deemed fully incorporated into the regiment having completed an year operating in hostile territories leading. The Special Forces are distinguished by their ‘balidaan’ badge. (Arijit Sen / HT Photo)*

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## Unknowncommando



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## Jamwal's

#Revealed - Under this we will reveal to you interisting things which are not known to general public.

Most of you might not be aware of this,but we have the exact helmet seen here, in active service with us.We will reveal it soon.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=775902395916631

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos after Pathankot Operation










PARA SF

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## Papa Dragon

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 420806
> View attachment 420807
> View attachment 420808
> NSG Commandos after Pathankot Operation


They should've tested Garuds in the Pathankot operation as they are the ones designated to protect air bases instead of NSG. Even though Garuds are involved in certain ops, this would've brought them in the limelight as all we hear about Indian Special forces is only about NSG or Para SF


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## Lord Of Gondor

Papa Dragon said:


> They should've tested Garuds in the Pathankot operation as they are the ones designated to protect air bases instead of NSG. Even though Garuds are involved in certain ops, this would've brought them in the limelight as all we hear about Indian Special forces is only about NSG or Para SF


Garuds were one of the first responders. You are insulting one of the best SF units by being ignorant about their role in killing the Jehadis.






> Indian Air Force Garud, Corporal Gursevak Singh laid down his life on 02 January 16 in the highest tradition of the IAF while battling with terrorists at Air Force Station Pathankot


http://www.indianairforce.nic.in/show_pressrelease.php?pg_id=107&news_id=970







http://topyaps.com/garud-commando-sailesh-gaur

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## Papa Dragon

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Garuds were one of the first responders. You are insulting one of the best SF units by being ignorant about their role in killing the Jehadis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indianairforce.nic.in/show_pressrelease.php?pg_id=107&news_id=970
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://topyaps.com/garud-commando-sailesh-gaur


What is it that you found insulting in my post? I am aware that few Garuds were posted in that air base being the first responders and I never questioned their capability. All I said was, if the operation was completely handled by Garuds instead of being an NSG op with relatively fewer Garuds involved, it would've brought them fame and Indian public would be more aware of other spec op teams like the Garuds and Marcos as all Indian media has focused on till now are the Para SF and NSG.

I know spec op teams don't need publicity and fame but that would've given them more operational experience and an opportunity to self-evaluate their strategies and drawbacks as a complete team instead of joint ops. It was only after 26/11 that NSG had a major revamp interms of strategies/equipment & gear as well as establishing NSG bases all across India


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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Abingdonboy

Papa Dragon said:


> What is it that you found insulting in my post? I am aware that few Garuds were posted in that air base being the first responders and I never questioned their capability. All I said was, if the operation was completely handled by Garuds instead of being an NSG op with relatively fewer Garuds involved, it would've brought them fame and Indian public would be more aware of other spec op teams like the Garuds and Marcos as all Indian media has focused on till now are the Para SF and NSG.
> 
> I know spec op teams don't need publicity and fame but that would've given them more operational experience and an opportunity to self-evaluate their strategies and drawbacks as a complete team instead of joint ops. It was only after 26/11 that NSG had a major revamp interms of strategies/equipment & gear as well as establishing NSG bases all across India


It's not about fame/admiration. Special Forces are national assets and are deployed according to the needs of the govt/nation, it was the Govt's decsion to deploy their premier CT force after recieving the relevent intel assesment and I think they made the right call- Pathankot is a HUGE airbase with 1000s of personel and their families, the worst case scenerio was that there would be multiple hostage situations and in that scenerio there is no one better than the NSG.

Addtional Garuds were flown in to cover the perimiter and protect the air assets on the ground but once the terrorists got inside the wall it was the NSG's job to hunt them down and they did it very well.


No other force in India is ready 24/7 with its gear packed and ready to be shipped out anywhere at a moment's notice. Not to mention the NSG's "ready teams" include medics, bomb techs and support staff along with the assualters. There is not a single other unit prepared like the NSG to be called in whenever wherever.

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## Gessler

Jamwal's said:


> #Revealed - Under this we will reveal to you interisting things which are not known to general public.
> 
> Most of you might not be aware of this,but we have the exact helmet seen here, in active service with us.We will reveal it soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=775902395916631



They also said they'd reveal SFF/SG operatives wearing FAST helmets. Never did.


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## Jamwal's

Gessler said:


> They also said they'd reveal SFF/SG operatives wearing FAST helmets. Never did.


And who told you they won't reveal it ?


----------



## Brahmaputra Mail

How do sf rotation take place in 50th Ind. Parachute Brigade ? Is it battalion level ?


----------



## Jamwal's

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=777181859122018

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF four types of camoflage

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## Gessler

Jamwal's said:


> And who told you they won't reveal it ?



I believe they said they'd reveal it 'tomorrow'...but it's been a month plus since then.

In short, what I'm saying is, I'll get excited only after I actually see it.

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## Abingdonboy

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> How do sf rotation take place in 50th Ind. Parachute Brigade ? Is it battalion level ?


AFAIK yes, PARA (SF) btns rotate between the 50th (Ind) Para Brigade, NE and Kashmir.




------------------------------
Somewhere in Kashmir, an NSG Sherpa assualt platform


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## Unknowncommando

FN P90 & Bulgarian Arsenal AR SF
SFF

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## Jamwal's

Gessler said:


> I believe they said they'd reveal it 'tomorrow'...but it's been a month plus since then.
> 
> In short, what I'm saying is, I'll get excited only after I actually see it.


Don't put inverted comma on tomorrow because they never said it tomorrow. Beside it was one of their admin who first revealed the exclusive pics of Para SF helmet inside out on one Indian forum before Shatrujeet page was formed. He didn't watermark it at that time


That apart from few exclusive videos and Pics of LoC that went viral first posts by guys who are now admins of that page.


Lastly they will post it when they think it's about time not when others ask them to Post, i am telling this because i am a part of that team.


Whatever is promised will be posted.

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Abingdonboy said:


> AFAIK yes, PARA (SF) btns rotate between the 50th (Ind) Para Brigade, NE and Kashmir.



Not the old SF battalions right ? Never heard of 21 and 9 Para SF of rotating to 50th Ind because they have permanent bases. Even 2 Para SF has permanent base. Or is it just company level commitment ?


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS POP

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## The_Sidewinder

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 420982
> 
> PARA SF four types of camoflage


In which terrain Grey camoflage(Right one) is used?


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## Unknowncommando

The_Sidewinder said:


> In which terrain Grey camoflage(Right one) is used?


Thats UCP Universal Camoflage Pattern. It can be used in Urban Warfare and Rocky mountains or shores. But Para SF never seen wearing this during Operations. Only during joint exercises or photoop.

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## Jamwal's

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=778012512372286









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=778037942369743

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## Zarvan

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Abingdonboy

MARCOs in Kashmir:

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Mp5A5 , SPAS-15 & SIG 553 SOW/LB




NSG Commandos old pictures

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## Papa Dragon

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 422019
> 
> PARA SF


Are you sure this guy is Para SF? Looks more like a politician's bodyguard with that belly


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## kaykay

Seems Tavors are standard assault rifle of Para SF, Marcos and Garud commandos.


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## Unknowncommando

Papa Dragon said:


> Are you sure this guy is Para SF? Looks more like a politician's bodyguard with that belly


Yes 100% sure. This guy is an officer. Maybe for photoop.





USS Pearl Harbor in Goa. You can see MARCOS with Maroon Berets.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Sniper

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos from Mumbai Regional Hub

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## Unknowncommando

SPG
@kaykay Yes standard for all SFs.

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## Brahmaputra Mail



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## Jamwal's

Fast Helmets in service





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=780564448783759

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## Gessler

Jamwal's said:


> Fast Helmets in service
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=780564448783759



First of all, thanks very much for these images! You did not say which unit this is? (if you wish to keep that secret, no problem.) But I have a feeling it could be SFF.

However I'm pretty sure this is not a FAST helmet. This is an ACH-2000/2001 High-Cut type. There's an easy way to tell the difference -










I'm in possession of a helmet of this exact same type, btw (ACH High-Cut) -

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Water Car Engineer

NSG

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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
07-September, 2017 19:05 IST
*Shri Kiren Rijiju attends the first National Canine Seminar organised by NSG *

The Minister of State for Home Affairs Shri Kiren Rijiju attended the first National Canine Seminar organized by National Security Guard (NSG), in NSG Campus, Manesar (Gurugram), Haryana today. The NSG, popularly known as "The Black Cats" of the country is organizing this two-day seminar. 

The theme of the two days National Canine Seminar is ''Canine as Tactical Weapon in Fight against Terrorism'' with an objective to discuss and deliberate on the techniques of dog training and strategies of deploying the dogs in Counter Terrorism/Counter Insurgency scenario. On the second day of the seminar, a workshop on ''Emerging Tools and Practices of Canines Training'' will be organized, followed by demonstrations of the various nascent equipments by GIGN, the France Special Force. 

On this occasion, in a separate function, Shri Kiren Rijiju also flagged off "the NSG's Motorcycle Expedition, 2017" from NSG Campus, Manesar. It commemorate the NSG’s 33 years service to the nation. The Expedition team will traverse major cities of the country including NSG's regional hubs at Gandhinagar/Mumbai/Chennai/Hyderabad/Kolkata to cover a distance of 7000 kms with an objective of spreading a message of collective responsibility towards the fight against terrorism. 

Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh, DG, NSG and officers from Defence Forces, Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs), States Police and other international & national dignitaries are participating in the seminar. 

*****

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## Hindustani78

The Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju addressing at the First National Canine Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar (Gurugram), Haryana on September 07, 2017.





The Minister of State for Home Affairs Shri Kiren Rijiju at the First National Canine Seminar, organised by the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar (Gurugram), Haryana on September 07, 2017. The DG, NSG, Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh is also seen.





The Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju flagging off the Motorcycle Expedition, 2017, organised by the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar (Gurugram), Haryana on September 07, 2017. The DG, NSG, Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh is also seen.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Marcos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Papa Dragon

Brahmaputra Mail said:


> View attachment 423948
> 
> Marcos


Looks like Marcos are poorly equipped when compared to NSG or Para SF


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## Unknowncommando

Sherpa 2 & Sherpa light Scout of NSG

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## John Reese

Papa Dragon said:


> Looks like Marcos are poorly equipped when compared to NSG or Para SF


No they are Not


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## Unknowncommando

SPG Commando

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## Hindustani78

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/632407/nsg-cisf-may-empowered-shoot.html

Anti-terror force NSG and industrial security agency CISF may be empowered to shoot down "rogue" low-flying objects like drones and gliders under a new policy which is being finalised.

A draft policy on operating low-flying, pilot-less objects will come up soon to deal with elements which could carry out terror attacks using drones, gliders, besides others, a home ministry official said.

The issue was discussed threadbare at a recent meeting of the Union home secretary with representatives of the Indian Air Force, civil aviation ministry, Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) and other stakeholders.

"The draft drone policy is in the final stage. It is focused on regulating the use of unmanned aerial vehicles and similar low-flying objects. The policy should come out in public domain this month itself to solicit comments from stakeholders," the official said.

The National Security Guard (NSG) and the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) are likely to be given powers to shoot down any "erring" low-flying object if they find it as "rogue", the official said.

The two forces will acquire defence mechanism like electromagnetic system, which would have inbuilt radar, radio frequency jammer and detector. The policy will have preventive features to ensure that there is no misuse of any kind of low-flying objects by terrorist groups or other anti-national elements.

The policy is being formulated after spotting of several UAVs in airports and border areas, hampering air traffic and raising security concern. "It has become necessary to regulate UAVs to prevent their misuse in sensitive areas like airports. The policy will have provisions on how to check rogue elements operating UAVs," another official said.

The policy will have dual aspects of enabling features: licensing the UAVs for their use along the international borders as well as in guarding vital installations inside the country, and disaster relief works.

Currently, there is no policy on how to deal with a situation when a drone is sighted. There is nothing in the law to book a person if he or she involves in any mischief by operating a drone.

"There are no standard operating procedures to deal with the UAVs. That is why the new policy is being brought in," the security official said. When a law is finally being enacted, it will define punishment, fine and also who can get license to fly a drone.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG 26 SCG










DEF Minister , COAS , PARA SF , MARCOS , BSF & Navy Officers

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## Hindustani78

THEKKADI, September 12, 2017 00:48 IST
Updated: September 12, 2017 00:48 IST
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...urity-at-mullaperiyar-dam/article19666796.ece

A team of the National Security Guard (NSG) on Monday inspected the Mullaperiyar dam and checked the security arrangements provided by the Kerala police. They advised the Kerala police to use advance weapons and ensure comprehensive security.

Led by Anoop Singh Gahlan, the NSG team inspected key places in and around the reservoir, including vantage points and discussed the security arrangements at the dam site with the Tamil Nadu and Kerala officials.

*Nocturnal surveillance *

The team members also advised the Kerala police to use surveillance equipment and check their effective range. They were also instructed to enhance nocturnal surveillance using advanced gadgets. Though it was the second visit of the high-profile NSG team to the dam, PWD officials termed it as “periodical inspection.” The team had last assessed security arrangements at the site in December 2014. It may be noted that prior to the NSG, a Central Industrial Security Force team from Kochi had also inspected the dam in 2014 as Tamil Nadu had sought a neutral force to monitor the dam as it felt that there was no security to its engineers at the dam.


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## Hindustani78

By: PTI | New Delhi | Published:September 12, 2017 8:24 pm





Around 12 VIPs are guraded by the National Security Guard (NSG). (Representational Image)

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/government-to-review-security-of-vips-home-ministry-4840482/


The security cover given to several politicians and other ‘VIPs’ will come under review of a high-powered committee, which will examine whether they remain vulnerable to attacks by terrorists and organised groups, a home ministry official said.

The committee, headed by the Union Home Secretary, will this week examine threadbare the intelligence inputs about the threat perceptions of these VIPs, many of them politicians, and whether they need protection by elite commandos of the National Security Guard and other central security forces like the CRPF and CISF.

There is a possibility of pruning the list of ‘VIPs’, who enjoy security cover under four categories, ‘Z-plus’, ‘Z’, ‘X’ and ‘Y’, the official said.

However, whose security cover will be downgraded will be known only after the committee reviews the intelligence inputs of every individual, the official said.

Those who enjoy the highest ‘Z-plus’ category security include former chief minister of Bihar Lalu Prasad, former chief ministers of Uttar Pradesh Mulayam Singh Yadav, Akhilesh Yadav and Mayawati, former chief ministers of Assam Prafulla Kumar Mahanta and Tarun Gogoi. Around 20 securitymen guard a ‘Z-plus’ protectee, 15 security personnel guard a ‘Z’ category protectee and the number gradually go down with ‘X’ and ‘Y’ category protectee.

Around 75 ‘VIPs’ are guarded by the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), around 70 by the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), around 15 by the Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), around 12 by the National Security Guard (NSG) and around 200 by the Delhi Police.

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG 26 SCG


What is the SCG?


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## Unknowncommando

Abingdonboy said:


> What is the SCG?


A composite group of both SAG & SRG Commandos. They Operate together under this group. Also increases coordination between them.

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## Unknowncommando

Galil SAR & VZ 58 of Para SF

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> A composite group of both SAG & SRG Commandos. They Operate together under this group. Also increases coordination between them.


But what's their role? 51 SAG are counter terror, 52 SAG are anti-Hijacking SCG is......?


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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos
@Abingdonboy Sorry bro I don't have that information

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## Unknowncommando

with Brazilian & South African SF




MARCOS

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## Gessler

New Crye Precision Gen3-type quarter-zip combat shirts in use by Para-SF, thanks to INDRA Networks for the scoop! In both Multicam and Woodland MARPAT camos...can't wait to see them in full gear!






@Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando @Jamwal's @Water Car Engineer @PARIKRAMA @Zarvan @Hindustani78

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Water Car Engineer

The National Security Guard has procured head-mounted K-9 goggles fitted with cameras and LED lights for its dog squad, a vision system that sources in the elite counter-terrorism force said would help the handlers of the canines monitor operations better.

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds at Aero India 2017

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## The_Sidewinder

Gessler said:


> New Crye Precision Gen3-type quarter-zip combat shirts in use by Para-SF, thanks to INDRA Networks for the scoop! In both Multicam and Woodland MARPAT camos...can't wait to see them in full gear!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Abingdonboy @Unknowncommando @Jamwal's @Water Car Engineer @PARIKRAMA @Zarvan @Hindustani78



Looks sexy. I hope a knock off will be available in the online shopping sites


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## Gessler

New ACH-type helmets with all the bells & whistles (rails, velcro, NOD mounts etc.) seem to be gaining popularity in the Indian Special Forces community...keep track of INDRA Networks/Shatrujeet009 for updates...

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF







NSG K9 units already had front rear view cameras , GoPros , Goggles & vests now they have procured 360° cameras on experimental basis. After successful induction and testing more will be ordered. And if there is increasing demand DRDO should develop such systems. Current system costs around 45lakh per unit. Thats too much. Reminds famous Riley from COD Ghosts.

@Gessler Yes bro credits to this government which fast tracked the helmet procurement process. Now all SFs have received or receiving new helmets. Army and all CAPFs also getting them . I am happy that we bought ACH for our troops. Because PASGT would have been a heavier option. And it's easy to attach rails & NVG mounts on them. I talked to few Assam Rifles & BSF Jawans. They are very happy but yet few of them saying that it will take time to feel total comfort while wearing them as they are not used to it. Der aaye durust aaye these are better than old buckets.

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## Gessler

Unknowncommando said:


> @Gessler Yes bro credits to this government which fast tracked the helmet procurement process. Now all SFs have received or receiving new helmets. Army and all CAPFs also getting them . I am happy that we bought ACH for our troops. Because PASGT would have been a heavier option. And it's easy to attach rails & NVG mounts on them. I talked to few Assam Rifles & BSF Jawans. They are very happy but yet few of them saying that it will take time to feel total comfort while wearing them as they are not used to it. Der aaye durust aaye these are better than old buckets.



Yes, compared to ACH, the PASGT is of a previous generation. Heavier and offers lesser protection against many calibers.

But the new(er) ECH is even more advanced, lighter & offers better protection even against rifle-caliber rounds. In US Army service it has been PASGT >>> ACH >>> ECH.

It serves to know that MKU representatives have stated that they are already working on an ECH-equivalent helmet (same size & dimensions as ACH-2000) and will be offering them to the IA/other services in near future.

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## Kamikaze Pilot

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Fine but if anyone does want to see I'll be happy to post.


Yeah I want to see! Plzz post!! Plzz post!!


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## Unknowncommando

MARCO

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Abingdonboy

Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members of the SPG seen during the PM's visit to Gujarat ( Sept 2017 )

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## Abingdonboy

The four offical "rides" of the PM- the TATA Safari, Toyota Land Cruiser, BMW 760Li "Security" and Range Rover HSE.

These vehicles are highley armoured and all custom made to serve the Prime Minister of the world's largest democracy according to the requirements of the Special Protection Group (SPG).

Fleets of all four models are kept in a secure site in Delhi by the SPG and transported wherever the PM is visting across India and the region.

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Combat Diver

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## Water Car Engineer

Marcos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos mock drill at GT Road, Amritsar

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


>


One of the few times NSG have been seen drilling with a ballistic shield

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## Unknowncommando

SFF Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

SPG Commando

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## Abingdonboy

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 428564
> 
> SPG Commando


Must be an old pic bro, SPG's Counter Assualt Teams have had a new plate carrier for 4-5 years now.

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## Foxbat Alok

Details of surgical strike 
Exclusive intery with surgical strike team


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## Papa Dragon

Foxbat Alok said:


> Details of surgical strike
> Exclusive intery with surgical strike team


Waiting for the pakistanis to come bashing on this with phrases like "bollywood staged drama"


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## PWFI

Papa Dragon said:


> Waiting for the pakistanis to come bashing on this with phrases like "bollywood staged drama"


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## Foxbat Alok

Indian army PARA COMMANDOS latest video 
Must watch

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## Unknowncommando

SFF

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## Hindustani78

A National Investigation Agency team outside the Uttar Pradesh assembly in Lucknow. (PTI File Photo)

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## Lord Of Gondor

Thanks to Team INDRA/Daily Excelsior/respective photo journalists.


> Latest photo of 2 PARA SF "The Predators" from the Valley.
> This unit is on constant move from less violent North Kashmir To militancy hit South












Edit 04 October 2017:

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando




ANA SF Commando in India during joint exercise in 2013 , Rajasthan Desert

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## Hindustani78

October 03, 2017 19:29 IST
Updated: October 03, 2017 19:29 IST
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...be-deployed-at-sabarimala/article19791402.ece

The National Security Guard (NSG), the country’s elite special force, is likely to be deployed at Sabarimala during this pilgrimage season.

The State police have sought their temporary stationing at the hill shrine as part of the law enforcement’s proactive approach to potential extremist threats to the iconic temple, which draws lakhs of pilgrims annually.

Officials said State police chief Loknath Behera had requested the Centre to assign at least one NSG platoon to *Kerala *for the Mandala-Makaravilakku season that starts in November.

The police said that against the backdrop of the global terrorist threat they could not discount intelligence report, credible but low on specifics, that ultras could use forest routes to assail the shrine or pilgrim groups.

In such an eventuality, they said the NSG would be the tip of the law enforcement’s pre-emptive and counter strikes.

The Thunderbolts, the Special Weapons and Tactics Team of the Kerala Police, would work alongside the NSG.

The Indian Air Force would deploy at least two MI-17 V-5 gunships to fly low-level aerial reconnaissance and surveillance sorties over Sabarimala from the naval base in Kochi. The NSG preferred the MI as its platform for airborne operations. 

The police said they had before them the daunting task of striking a balance between the compulsions of tradition, such as allowing pilgrims to carry “irumudikettu” offering into the inner sanctum and mitigating the modern day security threats to the high-profile temple without inconveniencing the devotees.

A team led by Inspector General of Police Manoj Abraham has done a security audit of Sabarimala to detect surveillance “blind spots” and potential stampede risks. He has requisitioned a platoon of the National Disaster Response Force (NDRF) and streamlined pilgrim movement through barricades for better use of shelters for crowd management.

He has proposed encouraging pilgrims to book their temple visit in advance on the law enforcement’s Sabarimala virtual q portal for “comfortable darshan”.

Last year, 17 lakh pilgrims registered through the portal. It has helped the police better optimise their deployment.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos
Old Pics

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Mustang06

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 429942
> View attachment 429943
> View attachment 429944
> View attachment 429945
> View attachment 429946
> 
> Garud Commandos


So many camos?


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF




Garud Commandos












NSG Commandos during anti naxal training







MARCOS

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## GuardianRED

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 430438
> View attachment 430435
> View attachment 430436
> View attachment 430437
> 
> MARCOS


Which country's flag is behind the team? (next to ours?)

Also NOTE the Go Pro on the center standing specialist - Nice, hopefully we can see those vids soon!


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## Papa Dragon

GuardianRED said:


> Which country's flag is behind the team? (next to ours?)
> 
> Also NOTE the Go Pro on the center standing specialist - Nice, hopefully we can see those vids soon!


The flag looks Mexican but the emblem in the center looks different


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## GuardianRED

Papa Dragon said:


> The flag looks Mexican but the emblem in the center looks different


Got it - ITALIAN NAVAL FLAG!

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando carrying SIG SG 553 LB with Sagem Sword T&D Thermal Sight Attached

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF orlite helmet

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## Unknowncommando

Garud



NSG




MARCOS

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## Sage

NSG are getting better in terms of equipment ...


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## TruthTheOnlyDefense

lol their gear looks very bad, even the Australian police SWAT team is better equipped.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando 
FN F2000


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Commando

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Hindustani78

Vice President's Secretariat
16-October, 2017 14:51 IST
*International community has to launch a concerted effort to isolate States which are sponsoring terrorism: Vice President *

Addresses 33rd Raising Day Celebrations of the National Security Guard 

The Vice President of India, Shri M. Venkaiah Naidu has said that the International community has to launch a concerted effort to isolate States which are sponsoring terrorism. He was addressing the 33rd Raising Day Celebrations of the National Security Guard (NSG), in Manesar, Haryana today. The Minister of Education, Government of Haryana, Shri Ram Bilash Sharma, the Director General, NSG, Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh and other dignitaries were present on the occasion.

The Vice President paid homage to the 19 Brave Martyrs of NSG, who made the supreme sacrifice in the line of duty, thereby upholding the highest traditions of valour and sacrifice. 

The Vice President said that NSG is a specially-trained, highly skilled and hugely motivated force, tasked with multifarious responsibilities and the entire nation is proud of their achievements. He further said that the National Security Guard is synonymous with bravery, professionalism and extreme dedication. The country will always remember the defining role NSG played in Akshardham, Mumbai and Pathankot attacks and neutralizing the grave threat, performing its tasks with great professional elan, he added.

The Vice President said in recent years, terrorist incidents have increased world over and some of the attacks have occurred at places which never experienced such events and perhaps least expected them. He further said that you are all aware that India is facing the menace of terrorism for the past three decades. We have always given a befitting reply to such anti-national elements, he added.

The Vice President said that there has been a paradigm shift in the modus operandi of our adversaries, wherein the threat is not limited only to border areas, but has manifested in the hinterland also. This requires constant reviewing and enhancement of our operational capabilities, he added.

The Vice President said that there is nothing like good terrorists and bad terrorists and terrorism knows no religion or boundaries and nobody should be allowed to get away with acts of violence in the name of ideology. The Vice President appealed to the United Nations to see the conclusion of a comprehensive convention on suppression of international terrorism, the proposal for which from India is pending since 1996.

Following is the text of Vice President's address: 

Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh, Director General, National Security Guard, Officers and my brave ‘Black Cat’ Commandos.

I am delighted to be part of the 33rd Raising Day Celebrations of the National Security Guard. At the outset, I pay homage to the 19 Brave Martyrs of NSG, who made the supreme sacrifice in the line of duty, thereby upholding the highest traditions of valour and sacrifice. 

NSG is a specially-trained, highly skilled and hugely motivated force, tasked with multifarious responsibilities. Be it counter terrorist or counter hijack operations or protection of persons with high threat perception, you have always risen to occasion to ward off the challenges. The entire nation is proud of your achievements. NSG has footprints all over the country and the coming up of the Special Composite Group at Gandhinagar, bears testimony to the fact that the operational reach of NSG has further enhanced. 

The National Security Guard is synonymous with bravery, professionalism and extreme dedication. I am certain that all of you must be proud to be a part of this special force, as the nation and people always look to you with awe, hope and trust and feel assured of their safety and well being. This confidence comes from the fact that NSG has delivered results by overcoming all odds, irrespective of the magnitude and the spectrum of challenge.

Over the last 33 years, you have successfully handled several terrorist and hijack situations. The country will always remember your defining role in Akshardham, Mumbai and Pathankot attacks. NSG accepted the challenge and neutralized the grave threat, performing its tasks with great professional elan. 

In recent years, terrorist incidents have increased world over and some of the attacks have occurred at places which never experienced such events and perhaps least expected them. Those are the key words—least expected them. That’s how terrorists thrive and try to create mayhem by surreptitiously attacking at unsuspecting places and people. Hence, eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

It is indeed ironical that as mankind progresses with the aid of technology, terrorists too come up with ways of using it for destroying lives and liberty of the people. The lone wolf attacks and the use of vehicles to mow down people in London, Barcelona and France reflect the need for mounting a heightened surveillance in public places to prevent recurrence of such incidents.

You are all aware that India is facing the menace of terrorism for the past three decades. We have always given a befitting reply to such anti-national elements.

However, recently, there has been a paradigm shift in the modus operandi of our adversaries, wherein the threat is not limited only to border areas, but has manifested in the hinterland also. This requires constant reviewing and enhancement of our operational capabilities.

To this effect, we all must remain committed to embracing the latest technology and develop specialist skills, with an aim to upgrade and hone our operational preparedness.

There is thus a dire need to constantly review, improve tactics and innovate and update strategy to always stay ahead in the game. In other words, to defeat the evil designs of terrorists both men and machines have to outsmart them.

Towards this end, the advancements that you have made in surveillance, firepower and developing counter UAV capabilities are indeed praiseworthy and laudable.

I feel the time has come for the international community to launch a concerted effort to isolate States which are sponsoring terrorism. There is nothing like good terrorists and bad terrorists. Terrorism knows no religion or boundaries and nobody should be allowed to get away with acts of violence in the name of ideology.

I fervently appeal to the United Nations to see the conclusion of a comprehensive convention on suppression of international terrorism, the proposal for which from India is pending since 1996.

It is extremely heartening to see NSG taking giant strides not only in ensuring its own progress but also carrying out Capacity Building, especially of our State Police Forces. This will ensure a synergised national response, to terrorism in our country. Other forces have also immensely benefitted from your Specialised Counter terror tactics, Bomb disposal techniques and from your K9 capabilities. By this measure, you are achieving the dual aim of capacity building, along with nation building and for this I wish to congratulate you.

For a force like NSG, training is the key and it is imperative that you are exposed to the best available training across the globe. I am happy that you have further built upon this repository by sharing the best practices with other Special Forces of India and the world. In the end, I convey my heartiest felicitations to each one of you on the 33rd Raising Day of NSG.

I am sanguine that you will always be committed to your Vision to be ‘A World Class Zero Error Force’. Our wishes and prayers are always with you and I am certain, that you will always put your best foot forward and come out successful in all your endeavours, while serving our great nation.

JAI HIND!"



***

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## Hindustani78

The Vice President, Shri M. Venkaiah Naidu at the 33rd National Security Guard Raising Day Celebrations, at Manesar, in Haryana on October 16, 2017. The Minister of Education, Haryana, Shri Ram Bilash Sharma and the Director General, NSG, Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh are also seen.





The Vice President, Shri M. Venkaiah Naidu addressing the gathering at the 33rd National Security Guard Raising Day Celebrations, at Manesar in Haryana on October 16, 2017.





The Vice President, Shri M. Venkaiah Naidu addressing the gathering at the 33rd National Security Guard Raising Day Celebrations, at Manesar in Haryana on October 16, 2017.





The Vice President, Shri M. Venkaiah Naidu releasing a Special Postal Cover, at the 33rd National Security Guard Raising Day Celebrations, at Manesar, in Haryana on October 16, 2017. The Minister of Education, Haryana, Shri Ram Bilash Sharma and the Director General, NSG, Shri Sudhir Pratap Singh are also seen.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Suppressed Tavor

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## Unknowncommando

NSG 33rd Raising Day

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## Unknowncommando

Raising Day Celebrations

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## Unknowncommando

3 Variants of Mp5




NSG 51 SAG

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Papa Dragon

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 432229
> View attachment 432230
> View attachment 432231
> View attachment 432232
> View attachment 432233
> 
> NSG Commandos


How many Renault Sherpas have been procured by NSG?
Water Car Engineer


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## Unknowncommando

NSG SAG & US Army SF
Ex. Balance Iroquois







PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG's 33rd Raising Day

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## Brahmaputra Mail

Any videos from NSG raising day ?


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## AMCA

Am I the only one to be praising the Royal Enfield Bike NSG uses ?

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## bloo

Para SF.









Marcos.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS And Army Jawans during Indra 2017

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## Hindustani78

Oct 23, 2017 15:22 IST













4/6
*According to the CISF, though the vehicle will always be deployment ready, it will only be used only in case of an attack. The CISF has Quick Reaction Teams (QRTs) which are also equipped to chase and neutralise suspects and threats. (Vipin Kumar / HT Photo)*




4/6
*Currently, the vehicle for the CISF personnel is deployed at the departure forecourt of Terminal 3 for most of the day’s duration and goes to Terminal 1 for some time. The force plans to use the vehicle in other parts of the country also, especially the Naxal belt. (Vipin Kumar / HT Photo)*




4/6
*The Indira Gandhi International Airport in Delhi has recently deployed an armoured vehicle, the Sherpa on trial basis to deal with terror attacks. The Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) is in the process of procuring the armoured tactical vehicle for Delhi airport which can be helpful in case of any terror attack. (Vipin Kumar / HT Photo)*




4/6
*A CISF officer shows the interiors of the bulletproof heavy vehicle, Renault Sherpa, which can accommodate four armed personnel who can fire from inside to neutralise any suspect. (Vipin Kumar / HT Photo)*




4/6
*‘There is a screen inside next to the driver’s seat where CCTV footage is displayed. The vehicle cannot be opened from the outside without the key. There are different lights installed at the front of the vehicle to operate in dark. The wheels are good enough to travel in mud and bad roads,’ a CISF officer told HT. (Vipin Kumar / HT Photo)*




4/6
*According to the CISF, though the vehicle will always be deployment ready, it will only be used only in case of an attack. The CISF has Quick Reaction Teams (QRTs) which are also equipped to chase and neutralise suspects and threats. (Vipin Kumar / HT Photo)*

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos

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## Unknowncommando



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## $@rJen

Unknowncommando said:


>



Sexy!!! Sexy!!!!

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## cerberus

IAF Garuds in Kashmir For Counter Terrorist operations

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds



NSG




SG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Raising Day

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## Unknowncommando

INDRA 2017

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## Unknowncommando

INDRA 2017

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## cloud_9

Those cheesy captions are borderline faggy!

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Polaris ATV




Paratrooper

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Commandos going to Isreal for Ex BlueFlag







MARCOS During Ex INDRA 2017

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## Papa Dragon

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 433766
> View attachment 433767
> View attachment 433768
> View attachment 433769
> View attachment 433770
> View attachment 433771
> View attachment 433772
> View attachment 433773
> View attachment 433774
> 
> NSG Raising Day


Is that a Belgian Malinois or a GSD? and what breeds do our special forces use apart from GSDs and Labs


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF



NSG

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## Unknowncommando

INDRA 2017
Indian & Russian Marines in Action

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## Unknowncommando

INDRA 2017

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## Unknowncommando

Airborne

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF




MARCOS


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## Water Car Engineer

IAF Gaurdas using ballistic shield 






NSG K9s

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Mock Drill at Airport


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## Unknowncommando

AK Modified by FAB Defence Para SF




AK 103 of MARCOS

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## Zarvan

NEWS: A detachment of National Security Guard Commandos based out of their hub in Badu, Kolkata flew out to Siliguri last week to perform a series of mock drills across various locations in the city.


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## cerberus

IAF Garuds in Israel Joint exercise With IDF

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## Lord Of Gondor

From the above....




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Blue Flag 2017
IAF Garuds & IAF 669 in action

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## bloo

Unknowncommando said:


> Exercise Blue Flag 2017
> IAF Garuds & IAF 669 in action
> View attachment 436832
> View attachment 436833
> View attachment 436834
> View attachment 436835
> View attachment 436836
> View attachment 436837



Its funny seeing the Israelis use M4s while our boys are using the Tavors.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Water Car Engineer



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## $@rJen

Unknowncommando said:


> Exercise Blue Flag 2017
> IAF Garuds & IAF 669 in action
> View attachment 436832
> View attachment 436833
> View attachment 436834
> View attachment 436835
> View attachment 436836
> View attachment 436837



Wow... NIce camo and gear we have///


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## Unknowncommando

NSG Old Pictures































@bloo @sarjenprabhu Gear doesn't belong to us.

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds






Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Hindustani78

The Garud Commando Force is the special forces unit of the Indian Air Force. It was formed in 2004 with the aim of carrying out counter-terror operations.


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## Unknowncommando

SPG



















Renault Sherpa Light Scout & Sherpa 2 in service with NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos new/ training/old pictures

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG 51 SAG

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## Unknowncommando

Special Group & Para SF Combined

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS during Ex INDRA 2017


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## Unknowncommando

FAB Defence modified AK & Tar 21 of Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

Renault Sherpa 2 & Sherpa light Scout
National Security Guards - NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

This is awesome

NSG k9 Unit
Belgian Malinois

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## bloo



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF in Kashmir

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF



SG
















6 Para Airborne

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF in Kashmir


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## Unknowncommando

Ex Khanjar
India-Kyrgyzstan


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS
INDRA 2017


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## Unknowncommando

Garuds


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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS during Navy Day 2017

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds










Garuds With MARCOS

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## Hindustani78

*Join the army for a life extraordinary, says young veteran of surgical strikes*

*If you want adventure, if you want something more from life, that little extra, and if you take pride in your motherland, there is nothing like the Indian army, said the veteran at the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh.*

http://www.hindustantimes.com/chand...cal-strikes/story-5T1h1MgwU88JplKV6gioNK.html


Updated: Dec 08, 2017 23:38 IST




Capt Manish Bora, a para commando who was part of the team that conducted the surgical strikes last year.(Anil Dayal/HT)

If there is one person who may have inspired some fresh-faced youngsters to join the army, it would undoubtedly be Capt Manish Bora, a para commando who was part of the team that conducted the surgical strikes last year. The 28-year-old who stood out in his maroon beret -- the pride of the special forces -- was mobbed by hordes of schoolboys for selfies while being bombarded by the media at the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh on Friday.

“We were just doing our task. We were really surprised by the media blitz that followed as our operations are always covert,” says the young man who has already been awarded a Sena medal. “We didn’t expect the post-op glory.”

*THE STRIKE*

Bora was one of the 70 commandos, who went across the border in a 72-hour-long retaliatory operation after the Uri attack, for which they took 10 days to prepare. It’s arguably one of the most successful cross-border operations in which they returned after destroying their targets without suffering a single casualty. The commandos ventured almost four kilometers into the enemy territory and stayed there for 48 hours, which included daylight as well. 

Using a mix of stealth and strategy, they took the enemy by surprise and inflicted heavy losses. Their return, which took almost five hours, was perilous as they were under constant fire but they managed to sneak back successfully. The message to the enemy was clear: we can hit you where it hurts the most.

***********
Posted at: Dec 8, 2017, 7:44 PM;
last updated: Dec 8, 2017, 8:04 PM (IST)
*Surgical strikes were ‘just another op’, says special paratrooper*

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...ther-op--says-special-paratrooper/510187.html

A paratrooper, who was involved in the Indian Army’s surgical strikes inside Azad Kashmir last year, on Friday described the daring action as “just another operation” for the special forces albeit on a larger scale.

The captain-rank officer of the 4th unit of the special forces said the strikes were “designed and planned” to send a “message” to Pakistan, which he thinks the Indian forces did in the “best way” it could.

India had carried out surgical strikes at seven terror launch pads across the LoC on the intervening night of September 28 and 29, 2016, with the Army inflicting significant casualties on terrorists who were preparing to infiltrate from the Azad Kashmir. 

The strikes had come within two weeks of a terrorist attack on an Army camp in Uri, Jammu and Kashmir, which claimed the lives of 19 jawans. 

Sharing his experience during the country’s first ‘military literature’ festival here, the officer said his unit had just 10 days to plan and prepare for the operation. “This was a large-scale operation. Once we were given a go ahead, we went ahead with normal preparedness. To be very frank, it was just another operation for us. 

But it was a large-scale operation, wherein the strength was more, the damage and the attrition we caused was much more than other operations,” the officer told PTI. The operation, he said, was carried out at such level of secrecy that even the neighbouring units were not aware of it. “We did not tell our neighbouring units (about the strikes). 

The most important thing (in such strikes) is surprise (element for targets). When you reach there, sit down and just observe and wait for the time. There were three targets (places) actually, the 4th para troops took on two of them and the 9th para troops on the third one.” “So, there were three strikes carried out in conjunction at three different places, three different targets and I was part of one of that,” he said. 

Speaking at the event, the soldier said nothing much has changed in his life since the surgical strikes, but added that he relished the Army lifestyle and described it as the “best one can get”. 

“Life has not changed... (it is) very much normal,” said the officer, when asked if his life changed after the strikes.

“What keeps you going (in the Army) is perhaps the kind of life style... probably it is the best you get here,” he said, exhorting the youth to join the defence forces. —PTI


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## sr1

Hindustani78 said:


> *Join the army for a life extraordinary, says young veteran of surgical strikes*
> 
> *If you want adventure, if you want something more from life, that little extra, and if you take pride in your motherland, there is nothing like the Indian army, said the veteran at the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Updated: Dec 08, 2017 23:38 IST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capt Manish Bora, a para commando who was part of the team that conducted the surgical strikes last year.(Anil Dayal/HT)
> 
> If there is one person who may have inspired some fresh-faced youngsters to join the army, it would undoubtedly be Capt Manish Bora, a para commando who was part of the team that conducted the surgical strikes last year. The 28-year-old who stood out in his maroon beret -- the pride of the special forces -- was mobbed by hordes of schoolboys for selfies while being bombarded by the media at the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh on Friday.
> 
> “We were just doing our task. We were really surprised by the media blitz that followed as our operations are always covert,” says the young man who has already been awarded a Sena medal. “We didn’t expect the post-op glory.”
> 
> *THE STRIKE*
> 
> Bora was one of the 70 commandos, who went across the border in a 72-hour-long retaliatory operation after the Uri attack, for which they took 10 days to prepare. It’s arguably one of the most successful cross-border operations in which they returned after destroying their targets without suffering a single casualty. The commandos ventured almost four kilometers into the enemy territory and stayed there for 48 hours, which included daylight as well.
> 
> Using a mix of stealth and strategy, they took the enemy by surprise and inflicted heavy losses. Their return, which took almost five hours, was perilous as they were under constant fire but they managed to sneak back successfully. The message to the enemy was clear: we can hit you where it hurts the most.


Is is right to reveal his identity? Or did he shared it with his personal consent? Just asking, don't know.


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## Hindustani78

sr1 said:


> Is is right to reveal his identity? Or did he shared it with his personal consent? Just asking, don't know.



I think in Indian Military they do declare thier identity when its needed but its more or less on the EC to keep thier identity in secret specially about thier families. And in Indian Military , if one soldier is being targetted for his/her courage towards the nation then the whole Indian Military will keep in mind and kick the hell out of them.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Hindustani78

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...ero-recalls/story-5PLhHcmIZf6bIVe5xTCNgP.html

*Captain Manish Bora, a para commando, said they were surprised by the media blitz that followed their successful cross-border operation. *
Updated: Dec 09, 2017 14:04 IST

Manraj Grewal Sharma 
Hindustan Times, Chandigarh.




Capt Manish Bora of special forces at the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh(HT Photo )

CHANDIGARH

If there is one person who may have inspired some youngsters to join the army, it would undoubtedly be Capt Manish Bora, a para commando who was part of the team that conducted the surgical strikes last year.

The 28-year-old who stood out in his maroon beret — the pride of the special force — was mobbed by hordes of schoolboys for selfies while being swarmed by the media.

“We were just doing our task. We were really surprised by the media blitz that followed as our operations are always covert,” says the young man who has already been awarded a Sena medal. “We didn’t expect the post-op glory.”

*THE STRIKE*

Bora was one of the 70 commandos who went across the border in a 72-hour-long retaliatory operation after the 2016 Uri attack carried out by Pakistan-based terrorists. The commandos took 10 days to prepare for the retaliatory strike. 

It’s arguably one of the most successful cross-border operations in which they returned after destroying their targets without suffering a single casualty. The commandos ventured almost four km into the enemy territory and stayed there for 48 hours, which included daylight as well. 

Using a mix of stealth and strategy, they took the enemy by surprise and inflicted heavy losses. Their return, which took almost five hours, was perilous as they were under constant fire but they managed to sneak back successfully. The message to the enemy was clear: We can hit you where it hurts the most.

*A SPECIAL SOLDIER*

A technical graduate from the Indian army, Bora, who hails from Dehradun, was commissioned into the Electronics and Mechanical Engineers (EME) regiment six years ago. But the youngster wanted some action. He volunteered for the special forces and was selected after an arduous 90-day-long training. 

“We are tested for our attitude and character. A commando must have a never-say-die attitude besides integrity, honesty and commitment.”

He was in Chandigarh to attend the Military Literature Festival.

Son of an army veteran, Bora has all of this. That’s why he couldn’t think of any other vocation. Ask him if he ever gets the jitters and he looks surprised. “Our work is risky, but it feels great,” he smiles, admitting he is an adrenaline junkie. “During any operation, it’s my men, me and nothing else. We try to do our task to the best of our ability without any casualty.”

It’s all about motivation and mental toughness, muses the youngster with a ready smile. “You can’t quantify toughness. You have to believe that you are better than your enemy and you can defeat him at any time.”

*NUTS AND BOLTS*

The army, Bora tells the curious media, believes that training during peace leads to victory during war. “We are always under training,” he explains to wide-eyed boys who want to know whether he is a good shot and whether he is adept at unarmed combat. Not surprisingly, answer is yes to both.

Intrigued by the officer, they want to know more — about food during operations. “Depending on the weather conditions, for the first 48 hours we carry fresh ration. After that we rely on energy bars, energy drinks and biscuits, et al.”

Maggi is a big no-no because its smell is a giveaway. Stealth is the key here. “We can’t make any sound during an operation.” So they pass around a full bottle of water to ensure that it doesn’t make that squeaky sound. They don’t carry any packet that crackles. And they eat just enough to sustain themselves. “You can’t be too hungry or too full,” he explains to the gathering.

While you have your journalistic reservations, Bora claims the Indian army is well-equipped with bullet-proof vests that weigh a neat 5 kg each. 

Ask him why youngsters are no longer opting for the uniform, and he looks incredulous. “I don’t think so. It’s an individual choice. If you want adventure, if you want something more from life, that little extra, and if you take pride in your motherland, there is nothing like the Indian army.”


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF in Kashmir

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## CoffeeByte

Unknowncommando said:


> MARCOS during Navy Day 2017
> View attachment 441232
> View attachment 441233
> View attachment 441234
> View attachment 441235
> View attachment 441236
> View attachment 441237
> View attachment 441238
> View attachment 441239
> View attachment 441240


Gorgeous pics


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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF







Isreali Orlite Helmets

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## Unknowncommando

Garud SF


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Combat Divers


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

IAF Garuds


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## Unknowncommando

SPG Commandos


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Talwar e Pakistan

Unknowncommando said:


> IAF Garuds
> View attachment 442901
> View attachment 442902
> View attachment 442903


Nice pics.

Why was that camo chosen for the IAF Garuds?


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## Unknowncommando

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> Why was that camo chosen for the IAF Garuds?


Depends on terrain & event. They have 10+ types of camos. Not chosen.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Hindustani78

*The Special Security Group (SSG) that provides security cover to highly protected VIPs currently has 1,200 personnel, and the government is going to increase it by 1,500.*
Updated: Dec 21, 2017 16:55 IST
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...ee-125-rise/story-TImmc5gmeUPzyU9SaLDKvL.html






Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) march during a passing out parade in Hyderabad. The Special Security Group (SSG) that provides security to VIPs is a wing of the CISF.(AFP)


The government is set to increase by an unprecedented 125% the manpower of the Special Security Group (SSG) that provides security cover to highly protected VIPs like Union ministers, the National Security Adviser (NSA), some chief ministers and the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) chief.

The SSG, a wing of the paramilitary Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), is a specialised force like the National Security Guard (NSG) and currently has 1,200 personnel. And the government is going to increase this by 1,500.

Sources in the Union home ministry told IANS that the sanction to increase the force is expected by December-end or by early January.

The decision has been pending with the home ministry’s Border Management Division for over a month now after the CISF requested the ministry for the induction of 1,500 more personnel in the SSG wing.

SSG commandos, who are trained at par with NSG personnel, currently provide security to 75 VIPs under Z plus, Z, Y Plus, Y and X categories across India.

Those given SSG security cover include finance minister Arun Jaitley, Union minister of state for home Kiren Rijiju, minister of communication Manoj Sinha, NSA Ajit Doval, former Union minister and nine-time lawmaker from Madhya Pradesh Kamal Nath, RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat and former Punjab deputy chief minister and Shiromani Akali Dal president Sukhbir Singh Badal.

CISF officers said the enhanced manpower would come as a relief for the SSG, which will, by 2018-end, take over the security responsibilities of all VIPs who are currently being protected by the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF).

The home ministry asked the CISF on November 23 to take over the VIP security responsibilities from the ITBP and the CRPF.

By 2018-end, only the CISF and NSG will have the mandate of guarding VIPs in the country. The Elite Special Protection Group provides security to the Prime Minister, former prime ministers, President and Vice President and their immediate families.

As per the order, the security of 92 VIPs so far under the CRPF and ITBP will be given in a phased manner to the SSG, which was established in 2006 for the purpose.

Till now, the CRPF provides security to 75 VIPs while the ITBP secures 17 such persons.

After increase in its strength, the SSG will start providing security cover to BJP president Amit Shah, Union minister Nitin Gadkari, Kashmir interlocutor Dineshwar Sharma, RJD chief Lalu Prasad and Reliance chief Mukesh Ambani, among others. All of them are now under CRPF protection.

It will also have to take over the security of Jammu and Kashmir politicians like chief minister Mehbooba Mufti, National Conference chief Farooq Abdullah, former chief minister Omar Abdullah and CPI-M legislator Yusuf Tarigami as well as of some judges protected by the ITBP.

Apart from providing VIP security through its SSG wing, the CISF, which came into existence in 1969, is mandated to provide security to critical infrastructure like nuclear installations, space establishments, airports, seaports, power plants, sensitive government buildings, heritage monuments and the Delhi Metro Rail Corporation.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF tacticool M4s

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## Unknowncommando

#ExHameshaVijayee
10 PARA SF DESERT SCORPIONS IN ACTION






SNIPER TEAM


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando

NSG X95




INS Karna


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF
FAB Defence Modified AKs with Comp M4 Sights

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## Garian

More NSG pics


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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF DURING ANANTNAG ENCOUNTER

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## Unknowncommando

Garud




FAB Defence AK

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Garian

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF
> View attachment 447439


Nice.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

Some more pictures


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

MARCO



Special Rangers Group SRG NSG


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS







NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




VZ 58 of Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos



Mini UAV Black Hornet Nano










Sherpa Light Scout and Sherpa 2

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF







NSG


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## Unknowncommando

FREE FALLER SUITE




GARUDS
GLOCK 26/33

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## Unknowncommando

Renault Sherpa 2 & Sherpa light Scout

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
SPAS 15 , Mp5SD & M249 SAW


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF










NSG

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Hindustani78

//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/62726304.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

NEW DELHI: NSG 'black cats' will now perform yoga as part of their daily physical training and undergo graded psychological tests under a new regimen to prepare them for counter-terror and hijack operations. 

According to a blueprint prepared by the National Security Guard, the force has, for the first time, decided to introduce yoga exercises in the "routine" physical training curriculum of its commandos. 

It has also decided on a regular process to tabulate the "psychological attributes" of each of its combat commandos, also known as black cats, in order to enhance their overall personality development. 

The new steps are being taken as the NSG's mandate to counter terrorist and hijack bids, apart from protecting high threat perception VIPs, is very specific and requires "physically and mentally fit personnel", who are trained to be the best commandos of the country, states the blueprint. 

A Psychological Screening Test (PST) is conducted at present when personnel from various uniformed forces join it on deputation. But the NSG now wants a "regular process" of measuring the psychological attributes of a commando in the ranks. 

The force will soon hire a psychologist as it has a "pressing requirement" of a qualified expert for not only choosing commandos at the entry level, but also for psychological counselling of trainees. 

Similarly, it has sought the full-time services of an experienced yoga mentor. 

Yoga, official sources said, is now mandatory for commandos but only specific capsules are being conducted in the NSG by experts from outside. Now, there will be a full- time instructor on the rolls. 

The gradings by the yoga instructor and the psychologist will henceforth be reflected in the official performance records of the commandos, who are under continuous training when not out on .. 

The blueprint, accessed by PTI, states: "Yoga consisting of asans, pranayams, prayer and yoga-nidra practice will have great effects on autonomic equilibrium between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems of the commandos." 

It adds that yoga increases physical fitness, disciplines the mind and makes a person more focused and confident, increasing agility and body flexibility. It also helps in achieving a calm and relaxed state of mind, which is important for a commando .

The blueprint says the yoga expert and the psychologist will be based at NSG's main garrison in Manesar, Gurgaon, near the national capital and will work as part of the counter- terror training wing. 

The 'black cat' commandos of the NSG are segregated into two major units -- SAG (Special Action Group) manned by officers and jawans from the army and the SRG (Special Rangers Group) comprising personnel from the paramilitary forces. 

The force was raised under an act of Parliament in 1984 as a federal contingency combat unit. 

It has undertaken numerous operations till now. These include flushing out terrorists during the 26/11 Mumbai siege in 2008 and the recent operation when they were deployed to kill terrorists who attacked the forward Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Pathankot.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Snipers

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Vajra Prahar 2018
PARA SF & US Army Green Berets




NSG

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## Unknowncommando

Vajra Prahar 2018 Joint Special Forces Exercise

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## Unknowncommando

NSG







NSG using Visor Clamps on their ACH
It is better than using 2 rails and NVG mount separately. One package for all mounts.


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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Lord Of Gondor

PARA(SF) at the Brigade HQ Sunjwan:












Image Credits to Team INDRA FB Page.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG










MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

Garud


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF










Garud wearing CMP Beret


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## Unknowncommando

Nsg

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




Garud

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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Garuda Shakti 2018

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## INDIAPOSITIVE



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## Unknowncommando

kahonapyarhai said:


>



Not commandos but infantry




Marco

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## Water Car Engineer

*New Mahindra LSV for SFs - Based on HDT Storm SRTV*

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## Unknowncommando

SPG

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## MimophantSlayer

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Kinetic

cyclops said:


> Para SF
> View attachment 456439
> 
> 
> View attachment 456465


nice


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## Unknowncommando

One of the reason why Tavor was choosen over M4 as standard rifle for SFs



mock Drill at temple 




51 Special Action Group SAG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos during drill with Green Berets at Delhi Public School , Kolkata







Nsg BDS tean in action

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

ITBP Paratroopers




COAS BG


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## NoOne'sBoy

not very scary looking compared to US special forces smh


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## Unknowncommando

Garuda Shakti 6


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Major Gaurav Choudhary 10 PARA SF President's Staff P (ADC)

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS







WITH Marines and JSDF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF






Ex Vajra Prahar

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

NSG



SIG 551 SB ACOG



MP5A5 ZEISS RSA-S & SIG 553 LB/SOW ACOG

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## Unknowncommando

IAF Garud

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




GARUD SNIPER

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## Unknowncommando

Ex Garuda Shakti 6

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## Unknowncommando

Admiral Meets MARCOS during his Visit to INS Karna


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## Garian

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 458340
> 
> NSG
> View attachment 458341
> 
> GARUD SNIPER


Dayum.


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## Unknowncommando

Tactical CrossBows in service

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## MimophantSlayer

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

cyclops said:


> Para SF
> View attachment 459148

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## Unknowncommando



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## boxer_B

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 459129
> 
> Tactical CrossBows in service



Wow, seen this for the first time!

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## Unknowncommando

INDO-KYRGYZSTAN JOINT SPECIAL FORCES EXERCISE “KHANJAR-2018’ COMMENCES TODAY
The Opening Ceremony of the fifth Special Forces Joint Training “EXERCISE KHANJAR” of Indian and Kyrgyzstan Armies was organised at CIJW School, Vairengte, Mizoram today.
20 Special Forces personnel from both nations are participating in the two week long joint exercise at CIJW School, Vairengte scheduled from 16 to 29 Mar.
The Kyrgyzstan Army Contingent is led by Col Redjapov Ruslan Abdi Rakhimovich from the ILBRIS Brigade.
The exercise was aimed at practicing Joint Planning & conduct of Counter Terrorist operations in Semi Urban Terrain and learning from each other’s experience.
The Exercise will encompass training on jungle warfare, jungle survival, Special Heliborne Operations.

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## boxer_B



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

10 PARA SF Desert Scorpions 
Gypsy In Snake Skin Camoflage

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## MimophantSlayer

Water Car Engineer said:


> *New Mahindra LSV for SFs - Based on HDT Storm SRTV*



Good replacement for the IA Gypsy.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA

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## MimophantSlayer

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1870408356584573

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## Foxbat Alok

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA
> View attachment 460470
> View attachment 460471
> View attachment 460472


Last one is assam rifle


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## Unknowncommando

Special Group ( SG ) aka The Mavericks
S-Tar21 ACOG




SFF




Arsenal AR-SF ( AK-74U )

@Foxbat Alok My Bad. God confused due to FAB AK

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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Foxbat Alok

Unknowncommando said:


> Special Group ( SG ) aka The Mavericks
> S-Tar21 ACOG
> View attachment 460603
> 
> SFF
> View attachment 460604
> 
> Arsenal AR-SF ( AK-74U )
> 
> @Foxbat Alok My Bad. God confused due to FAB AK


Which helmet is that??


----------



## Unknowncommando

Foxbat Alok said:


> Which helmet is that??


Viper P2








Also With VBSS And MARCOS 




While Patna ATS Has Similar type

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## Unknowncommando

President's Bodyguard

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS during Ausindex 2017

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## Unknowncommando

JE at CIJWs

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## August is Fun

RSTV NSG documentary was 10/10.

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## August is Fun

^Full episode?


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

August is Fun said:


> ^Full episode?

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando




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## INDIAPOSITIVE



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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Defence
28-March, 2018 19:15 IST
*Special Forces Training School’s Silver Jubilee *


Special Forces Training School (SFTS) is celebrating its Silver Jubilee on 01 Apr 2018. The School owes its origin to a humble beginning on 01 Apr 1993 where it was established as a Special Forces Training Wing (SFTW) to impart training to the three Para Commando battalions. The aim of raising this School was to provide unique and specialist training which was not available in any other training institution. The School over the years has transformed into a Cat ‘A’ establishment where it trains approximately 800 Officers, JCOs/ORs yearly. 

The essence of training at SFTS is ‘Walk The Talk’ where absolute professional competence is built through a practical on ground training. The students are trained to be confident and develop a strong winning attitude for carrying out special operations in the entire spectrum of contemporary warfare. SFTS is a Centre of Excellence (COE) for Special Forces’ Training and is also nominated as Nodal Agency for training with Special Forces of Friendly Foreign Countries (FFC).

The motto of the School is “*Sauryam Daksham Yuddhe” *which means *“Courage and Competence in War”*. Owing to the developments made in training and infrastructure, conduct of complex exercises like water para jumps and maintaining a high level of training standards, the School was awarded Army Training Command (ARTRAC) Army Commander’s Citation on 26 Jan 2018.


*****

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

6th Airborne Peacekeepers


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## Unknowncommando

Ex Khanjar 2018

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

SFF


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## Unknowncommando

Garud


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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG







PARA 








Green Berets assigned to 2nd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne), conducted weapon training Jan 23, as part of a joint training exercise with Indian Special Operation Forces at Joint Base Lewis-McChord and Camp Rilea, Oregon. It is important for both countries to learn the different weapon systems being implemented and the techniques they use to put effective rounds down range.(U.S. Army Photo by Staff Sgt. Marcus Butler)

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS





Ministers Photobombing

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG


----------



## INDIAPOSITIVE

*NSG's Black Cat commandoes get an upgrade*






State/paramilitary forces and Army personnel also taking lessons from the NSG to hone their skills for VIP protection.
It’s makeover time for India’s Black Cat commandoes of the National Security Guards, a specialised counter-terrorism and anti-hijack force that came into being in 1986. The commandoes of the elite force, modelled on the pattern of the UK’s SAS and Germany’s GSG-9, have now been equipped with a new bullet-resistant shield and smarter communication sets besides getting a better weapon profile to enhance their fire power and abilities to counter the threat facing political figures they protect. Dalip Singh takes a look.

*Game-changing equipment in the close-protection regime... *
Bullet-resistant shield that is folded like a thin briefcase and carried by one of the Black Cat commandoes moving ahead of the VVIP protectee

*HOW IT WORKS *
The commando is supposed to flick the case open which unfolds into a hanging shield to cover the VIP against incoming bullets. Until now only the SPG, which guards Prime Ministers, had this handy protector.

Commandoes now get hands-free communication sets (ear piece sets) — bulky walkie talkies that kept their hands occupied are now a thing of the past Fire power has been enhanced Automatic sub-machine guns used include: Heckler & Koch MP5, assault rifles like AK-47, Glock pistol and Glock knife.

*Reorienting commandoes with global best practices in personal security *
Idea is to lend an element of sophistication to business of protection, to make it look effortless Stay below the radar: Globallyaccepted proximate security principle demands that guards movements should be innocuous to catch intruders by surprise Commandoes allowed to wear goggles; aim is to use physical appearance as a psychological deterrence tool Trained for better observation and threat perception techniques during movement in public

*Skillsets introduced for NSG commandoes on VIP security duty...*
Black Cats taught muzzle discipline — pointing barrel of the gun towards the earth and not up in the air.

The earlier drill of encircling the protectee has been dispensed with and replaced by a dynamic and flexible walkabout depending upon the situation.

*Coaching others forces as well... *
State/paramilitary forces and Army personnel also taking lessons from the NSG to hone their skills for VIP protection.

State police — which forms outer layer of protection — being sensitised for better coordination Training classes for Sri Lankan security force personnel.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ndoes-get-an-upgrade/articleshow/63636665.cms

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos






l

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## Unknowncommando




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## Lord Of Gondor

Images Courtesy: Shatrujeet009 FB page

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## Unknowncommando

10th PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

Marco
AK-103

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

l


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## Foxbat Alok



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
10-April, 2018 18:45 IST
*NSG can counter any kind of attack: Shri Rajnath Singh *

Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh said that the National Security Guard (NSG) is a world class ‘zero error’ force and can counter any kind of attack in minimum response time. He was inaugurating the 28 Special Composite Group (SCG) Complex of NSG at Ibrahimpatnam in Hyderabad today. Speaking on the occasion, the minister said that the NSG which comprises of army and paramilitary forces has multi-dimensional responsibility of countering terrorist attacks/hijack attempts and also providing proximate security. He said that the NSG Hub has state of the art training facilities of global standards. The NSG also undertakes joint exercises with state police forces thereby helping in increasing their professional capabilities. He further said that with a view to decrease response time after the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, the government has set up National Security Hubs at Mumbai (NSG 26), Chennai (NSG 27), Hyderabad (NSG 28), Kolkata (NSG 29) and Gandhinagar (NSG 30).

The Minister said that terrorism which has become universal is posing new challenges through social media too, and security forces need to strengthen their technical capabilities to counter these challenges. Shri Rajnath Singh congratulated the 16 members NSG team which would attempt to scale Mount Everest in 2019. He said NSG is better than best forces, and expressed confidence that the force would counter any challenge efficiently and effectively.

Earlier, welcoming the gathering Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia, DG, NSG, said that the NSG hub at Hyderabad has the states of Chathisgarh, Telangana, Andhra Pradesh and Odisha under its purview.

He said the NSG has conducted joint exercises with USA, and France as part of its capacity building efforts. The NSG has countered 115 terrorist attacks and have been awarded 3 Ashok Chakras, 3 Keerti Chakras, 3 Shourya Chakras, 109 Police medals, which stand as a testimony to the NSG’s competence. The NSG hub at Ibrahimpatnam, Hydrabad is a green campus spread over sprawling 200 acres and constructed in an eco-friendly manner, he added.

Shri E.S.L. Narasimhan, Governor of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, Shri Nayini Narasimha Reddy, Minister for Home Affairs, Government of Telangana and several senior police officials were present.

A demonstration to showcase the capabilities of the NSG personnel in combat, attacks and other situations was also organised.



*****

The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh being received by the Governor of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, Shri E.S.L. Narasimhan, on his arrival, in Hyderabad on April 10, 2018.




The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh inaugurating the 28 Special Composite Ground Complex of NSG, at Ibrahimpatnam, in Hyderabad on April 10, 2018. The Governor of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, Shri E.S.L. Narasimhan and other dignitaries are also seen.





The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh unveiling the plaque to inaugurate the 28 Special Composite Ground Complex of NSG, at Ibrahimpatnam, in Hyderabad on April 10, 2018. The Governor of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, Shri E.S.L. Narasimhan and other dignitaries are also seen.





The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh addressing at the inauguration of the 28 Special Composite Ground Complex of NSG, at Ibrahimpatnam, in Hyderabad on April 10, 2018. The Governor of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, Shri E.S.L. Narasimhan and other dignitaries are also seen.






The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh in a group photograph at the inauguration of the 28 Special Composite Ground Complex of NSG, at Ibrahimpatnam, in Hyderabad on April 10, 2018. The Governor of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, Shri E.S.L. Narasimhan and other dignitaries are also seen.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

Marco Sniper

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## Unknowncommando

Exercises Gagan Shakti
Joint Special Forces Exercise

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## MimophantSlayer

Unknowncommando said:


> Special Group in Kashmir
> View attachment 467364
> Maverick Commando



I think that's Turkish SOF.

https://m.sabah.com.tr/galeri/turkiye/yuksekovada-joh-ve-poh-isbirligi-icinde/11


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## Unknowncommando

cyclops said:


> I think that's Turkish SOF.
> 
> https://m.sabah.com.tr/galeri/turkiye/yuksekovada-joh-ve-poh-isbirligi-icinde/11


Oops that was a mistake. My bad. I took it from IPC page and posted. Because SG has same helmets.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

US Army Green Beret and 75th Ranger Regiment Commandos at High Altitude Warfare School HAWS

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## Foxbat Alok

Unknowncommando said:


> US Army Green Beret and 75th Ranger Regiment Commandos at High Altitude Warfare School HAWS
> View attachment 468175


Bro can I get your contact info ??? Ek kaam hai


----------



## Unknowncommando

Foxbat Alok said:


> Bro can I get your contact info ??? Ek kaam hai


unknowncommando3@gmail.com Mail Karo


----------



## Unknowncommando

21 Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
52 SAG Highjack busters

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## Unknowncommando

Joint Special Forces Exercise
Gagan Shakti 2018

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

Marcos

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF










With Mongolians

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF with ANA SF




In Kashmir

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
Glock 17 , Glock 26 & X26 Taser Gun

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## Unknowncommando

IAF Garuds

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989815798200856576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989730452020707329

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## Unknowncommando

PARA




MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

Para







NSG




Marco

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990228308615876609

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## Unknowncommando

NSG



Defused Bombs






During anti naxal ops training







NSG K9z

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## Unknowncommando

NSG SAG

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990473220875866112

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990488248446324737

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990612607148097536

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1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990802396547829760

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990925019663552512

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/990969691576373248

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG Combat Divers




NSG K9 Unit

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/991145175966564352

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/991700415908491265

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG




SF

NSG at KASOTC

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## Unknowncommando

6th para airborne in Congo

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## MimophantSlayer

Para SF with GTAR

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/993146423712534528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/993531661538283521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/992780859999735808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/993085348631597056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/992760421764423680

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF

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3


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/994250816507662336

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/994564075521695744

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/994597760757252098

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/994975013122945024

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

PARA sf









MARCOS


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/995342443473133568


----------



## Unknowncommando

Akash Ganga Skydiving Team


----------



## Unknowncommando

Scar during NSG Trials




Inducted into NSG & Para SF 
Already in service with SG & SPG


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/995686709252648960

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/995976271854166016

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## sr1

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA SF
> View attachment 473893



Why does one of them wearing a rain boots?


----------



## Unknowncommando

@sr1 I don't know exactly.

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds





NSG

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996969949141745666

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG




PARA


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/998104153443352576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/998215365430624259

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996969949141745666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996455391499300864


----------



## Unknowncommando

Garuds


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/998562605034713089


----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/998619438684475392


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG


----------



## Unknowncommando

India's all Special Operations Forces & Special Units 
1st Row ( L to R ) Marcos , Garud , SPG , NSG 
2nd Row ( L to R ) Para SF , SG , COBRA , SFF

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## Papa Dragon

Unknowncommando said:


> India's all Special Operations Forces & Special Units
> 1st Row ( L to R ) Marcos , Garud , SPG , NSG
> 2nd Row ( L to R ) Para SF , SG , COBRA , SFF
> View attachment 475947


looks like the 1st row spec ops teams are better equipped than their 2nd row counterparts


----------



## Unknowncommando

Papa Dragon said:


> looks like the 1st row spec ops teams are better equipped than their 2nd row counterparts


In these pics yes but not every commando is wearing everything they have in their inventory . I just made that collage because I had similar pics. I will keep updating them if i get better ones.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

*SCAR-H NSG*

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/999317811695628288

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1000370730960236544

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1000612076232916993

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## MimophantSlayer

Para SF

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## BERKEKHAN2

CyclopS said:


> Para SF
> View attachment 482074


Can i use it as a profile picture [emoji849]


----------



## MimophantSlayer

Storm bombardier said:


> Can i use it as a profile picture [emoji849]



Sure.

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## BERKEKHAN2

RR SNIPER during yesterday's CASO in Lal Chowk Srinagar

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## Unknowncommando

Storm bombardier said:


> RR SNIPER during yesterday's CASO in Lal Chowk Srinagar
> View attachment 488918


He is CRPF sniper. It is CRPF QAT's new camo.

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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando

Airborne Troops of Indian Army recently received Israeli Cornershots
Equipped with Browning Hi-Power Pistol


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1028315998317756416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1027602153475530752

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1030754022179758081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1026858105663942657


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1026428654568521728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1026133976849637376


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1025389880019275777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1025031887444533248


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1024505836758921217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1024368542785753088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1024231601536823297


----------



## MimophantSlayer

Para SF.

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1031153787929391104


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1023873577076977664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1023504642045489153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1023530801864953856


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1022805879265976327

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1022369820694667264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1022359068411711489


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1032508481088106496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1020934219546017793


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1021779959411404800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1020556168127688704


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1021007646206263296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1020242680607997952


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1019617846836391938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1019548751185100800


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1019198400409919488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1018468831738523648


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1018503560588214272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1018470796983820289


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1017748304539496449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1017040921416757248


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1016911599217459200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1016655002000023552


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1016309125200818178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1015843369723940864


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1015626507002175488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1015456679461175296


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1015141841329532928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1014787354953830400


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1014889832902901763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1014828041908805632


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1014541825929981953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1014512010459951104


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1013979299836149760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1013287198576136198


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1013254308198879232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1013037859094159361


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1012385103874363392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1012305598694584320


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1012241835866009600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1011950291321622530


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1011822715068559360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1011599614527590401


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1011462021915656192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1011128145292873730


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1010784494889021441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1010737548056932352


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1010526707239927808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1010178565076217857


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1009771870541893638

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1009651231931842560


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1009382780847833088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1009295714160074752


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1007888931457650688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1007621862359293952

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1006950266761953281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1006866605865820161

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1001051572996984837

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1001723527358177280

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1003291209421352960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1003583094522179584

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1003596240943136768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1003955392576016385

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1004579509012594688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1004675678359281665

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005025873500631041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005506857429954560

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1006048901894324224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1006050314850426881

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1006357211520622599

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1006451091167277057

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1006538403846991872

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1032963469824258049

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1033713131208339456

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1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1034060001885732865

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## Unknowncommando

#ExercisePeaceMission: With the insurgents on the run, the SCO forces are building up to a crescendo. Towards the joint air-land campaign, IAF's IL76 took off with two squads of Indian Army's Special Forces, displaying high degree of jointness within the Indian Armed Forces.

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----------



## Lord Of Gondor

> The Indian Army and the Indian Air Force (IAF) held a joint anti-insurgent exercise on Monday. As part of the Exercise Peace Mission of the armed forces, IL76 aircraft of the Indian Air Force took off with two squads of special forces of the Indian Army.
> 
> Taking to microblogging site Twitter, the Indian Air Force shared pictures of the joint exercise by the defence forces. The tweet read, “With the insurgents on the run, the SCO forces are building up to a crescendo. Towards the joint air-land campaign, IAF's IL76 took off with two squads of Indian Army's Special Forces, displaying high degree of jointness within the Indian Armed Forces.”
> 
> A pre-flight briefing was given to the Indian Army personnel to deal with any meteorological and emergency situation. The briefing was given by Wing Commander KBS Samyal of the Indian Air Force.
> 
> 
> The exercise was part of a multi-nation counter terrorism wargame being held under the aegis of Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) in Russia. As many as 200 soldiers from the Rajput Regiment and the Indian Air Force are participating in the exercise, which has China, Russia and Pakistan among other participants.
> 
> The aircraft used for the exercise, IL 76, is a transport aircraft developed by Russia. The IAF has, according to The Economic Times, has footed a Rs 4000-crore proposal for the upgradation of the aircraft.


http://zeenews.india.com/india/sco-...in-joint-anti-insurgent-exercise-2136605.html

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1034760493309734912

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1035474014767116289

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1035741504126386176I hope everybody is able to see tweets

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG


----------



## Unknowncommando

With Indonesians




Garuds


----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando

Special Rangers Group of NSG


----------



## BERKEKHAN2

Thanks for sharing such amazing pictures sir

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1036614417704792064

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Unknowncommando

#EXCLUSIVE
A Para Special Forces operator besides Army's new TATA Safari Storme 
Quarter Zip Combat T-Shirt with Jungle Marine Pattern Digital Camoflage


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos standing guard in New Delhi


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF in Action


----------



## Unknowncommando

60 PARA Field hospital 



Army Medical Corps AMC Paratrooper Medic







PARA


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1039463950138494976


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1039708388064616449

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hindustani78

The DG, NSG, Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia presenting a cheque of Rs 1.01 Crore to the Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh, towards the Prime Minister’s National Relief Fund, in New Delhi on September 13, 2018.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1041678790315847681


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1041732826406760449


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1042058986596511745


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA 












Special Group aka Maverick in the middle


----------



## Unknowncommando

SF & Ghataks in action


----------



## Unknowncommando

Garud




NSG


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARAchute Regt.




Paratrooper from Electrical & Mechanical Engineers Regiment-EME










Paratroopers from AMC - Army Medical Corps


----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1042812905434099713


----------



## Unknowncommando

Fast Bump type High cut Helmet (Above the ear) in service with NSG with Comm Headset. The general term FAST Helmet was coined by OPS Core company when they launched High cut helmets that can accommodate comm headset among other accessories.

However Fast Bump Helmet is a lightweight version of Fast Ballistic Helmet which gives protection from Bumps and blunt trauma while allowing various tactical gear like strobe, NVG and Lights. Bump version is used in situations like Fast Roping and Recon. The difference between full ballistic and Bump helmet is the vent holes on Bump Helmet.

Today apart from Ops Core, several other manufacturers produce FAST/ Bump type helmets and termed it Combat High cut, HCBH, Exfil etc


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1043507862079717377


----------



## Unknowncommando

CASO in Tral

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1043870288671322112


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1043896787713630208

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1044068764269129728


----------



## Unknowncommando

10 th Para Special Forces aka Desert Scorpions during yesterday's encounter in Tral


----------



## Unknowncommando

NSG & CRPF QRT in valley


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1045265017044643840


----------



## BERKEKHAN2

Unknowncommando said:


> 10 th Para Special Forces aka Desert Scorpions during yesterday's encounter in Tral
> View attachment 500941
> View attachment 500942
> View attachment 500943
> View attachment 500944


 why are they deployed in Kashmir there is no desert in Kashmir ?


----------



## Unknowncommando

Storm bombardier said:


> why are they deployed in Kashmir there is no desert in Kashmir ?


Earlier 3 & 10 PARA SF used to be desert warfare specialist but now all SF do all types of stuff. Ready for any type of warfare.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BERKEKHAN2

Unknowncommando said:


> Earlier 3 & 10 PARA SF used to be desert warfare specialist but now all SF do all types of stuff. Ready for any type of warfare.


Ok

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## BERKEKHAN2

Indian Army Infantry Commandos ( Ghatak Platoon ) at Indo-Pak Border LOC , Tangdhar Region

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

Para SF

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1045658666991403009


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1045675508606865408


----------



## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


----------



## Unknowncommando

MARCO in Valley

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1046989763302043650


----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Water Car Engineer



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1047420835605172225


----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1048069449000112128


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1048415710349852672


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1048536856466530304


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1048773195547824128


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049239375547170816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049239318601093121


----------



## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando

Maroon Beret with Insignia of President's Body Guard ( PBG )


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Ghataks getting some good upgrades - Nice seeing Tonbo, MKU products right in the front line.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hindustani78

The Union Minister for Electronics & Information Technology and Law & Justice, Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad at the inauguration of the NIC e-Office in NSG, in New Delhi on October 09, 2018. The DG, National Security Guard (NSG), Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia and other dignitaries are also seen.







The Union Minister for Electronics & Information Technology and Law & Justice, Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad giving away the Awards, at the inauguration of the NIC e-Office in NSG, in New Delhi on October 09, 2018. The DG, National Security Guard (NSG), Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia and other dignitaries are also seen.







The Union Minister for Electronics & Information Technology and Law & Justice, Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad giving away the Awards, at the inauguration of the NIC e-Office in NSG, in New Delhi on October 09, 2018. The DG, National Security Guard (NSG), Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia and other dignitaries are also seen.







The Union Minister for Electronics & Information Technology and Law & Justice, Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad giving away the Awards, at the inauguration of the NIC e-Office in NSG, in New Delhi on October 09, 2018. The DG, National Security Guard (NSG), Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia and other dignitaries are also seen.







The Union Minister for Electronics & Information Technology and Law & Justice, Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad addressing at the inauguration of the NIC e-Office in NSG, in New Delhi on October 09, 2018. The DG, National Security Guard (NSG), Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia and other dignitaries are also seen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049695443825975298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049493905912356864


Water Car Engineer said:


> Ghataks getting some good upgrades - Nice seeing Tonbo, MKU products right in the front line.


Indeed
Bharat Electronics Limited Holographic Sight 
Tonbo EK Thermal Sight
Tonbo Helmet mounted Arjun Thermal Sight
FAB Defence AK Accessories which has dealership in Dehradun

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Crixus

Do you know which sniper rifle the sniper is holding the Ghatak platoon ?


Unknowncommando said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049695443825975298
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049493905912356864
> 
> Indeed
> Bharat Electronics Limited Holographic Sight
> Tonbo EK Thermal Sight
> Tonbo Helmet mounted Arjun Thermal Sight
> FAB Defence AK Accessories which has dealership in Dehradun


----------



## BERKEKHAN2

Unknowncommando said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1048773195547824128


Can I get this without watermarks please


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049896327214174209
@Storm bombardier Mail ID plz or DM me on twitter 
@Crixus Steyr SSG 69


----------



## BERKEKHAN2

Unknowncommando said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049896327214174209
> @Storm bombardier Mail ID plz or DM me on twitter
> @Crixus Steyr SSG 69
> View attachment 504139


E-mail id ?


----------



## BERKEKHAN2

Storm bombardier said:


> E-mail id ?


Here is mine tufailbakshi053@gmail.com


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1050383620815376384

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1050419892359450624


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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1050645288182931461

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1050747017931223042


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## Unknowncommando




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## Hindustani78

Ministry of Home Affairs
16-October, 2018 16:48 IST
*Union Home Minister asks security forces to be alert as terrorists are adopting new tactics *

Shri Rajnath Singh addresses the 34th Raising Day event of NSG

The Union Home Minister Shri Rajnath Singh has called upon the security forces to be on the alert as terrorists are adopting new tactics. Addressing the 34th Raising Day event of National Security Guard (NSG) at Manesar, Gurugram today, he said terrorists are using social media for publicity and vehicles to run over people in crowded public places. Keeping up with the challenges, the NSG is upgrading its skills and techniques, he added.

The Union Home Minister said our government has strengthened security. He added, “In the last four and half years there was no big terrorist attack in the hinterland of the country largely due to the alertness of our security forces. Barring Jammu and Kashmir, our security forces have succeeded in preventing terrorist attacks in the rest of the country”.

Shri Rajnath Singh said, “we have seen best coordination among security forces in Jammu & Kashmir resulting in successful security operations. We have decided to deploy one unit of NSG in Jammu & Kashmir”.

In order to reduce response time, Shri Rajnath Singh said that regional hubs of NSG are being set up. Recently one such hub was inaugurated in Hyderabad. However, first respondent in any terrorist attack should be the State Police, he added.

Shri Rajnath Singh said the government is fully supporting the security forces and has taken several measures for their welfare such as in recruitment and promotion of Constables. We are also concerned about families of martyrs and have taken measures to ensure adequate monetary support, he said.

Terming the NSG as our “Sudarshan Chakra” against terrorists, the Union Home Minister said it is comparable to any international force of its kind. “It's not only better than rest but better than the best. In 34 years since its inception, NSG secured a solid place for itself in the security grid of the nation. NSG has become a specialized force with multi-dimensional roles- in counter terrorism, anti-hijacking and close protection operations. NSG has fulfilled all tasks entrusted to it with full dedication. People of our country have developed enormous trust in NSG while the enemies are scared of its capabilities,” he said.

The Union Home Minister later launched the newly created website and Twitter handle of NSG. He also presented awards and commendations to the Security Forces personnel and their families.

On the occasion, NSG commandos gave a display of their prowess by conducting demonstrations in counter-terrorist operations using drones, amphibious assaults, canine units and air-dropping of Special Units. Directors General of CAPFs, former DGs of NSG and senior officers of MHA and CAPFs were present.



******

BB/NK/PK

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## Hindustani78

The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh presenting the awards and commendations, during the 34th Raising Day Parade of the National Security Guard (NSG), at Manesar, Gurugram on October 16, 2018.







The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh presenting the awards and commendations, during the 34th Raising Day Parade of the National Security Guard (NSG), at Manesar, Gurugram on October 16, 2018.







The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh being presented a memento by the Director General, National Security Guard (NSG), Shri Sudeep Lakhtakia, during the 34th Raising Day Parade of the National Security Guard (NSG), at Manesar, Gurugram on October 16, 2018.







The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh addressing at the 34th Raising Day Parade of the National Security Guard (NSG), at Manesar, Gurugram on October 16, 2018.







The Union Home Minister, Shri Rajnath Singh in a group photograph with the awardees, during the 34th Raising Day Parade of the National Security Guard (NSG), at Manesar, Gurugram on October 16, 2018.

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## Hindustani78

*Photos: Breathtaking drills and stunts, NSG celebrates 34th Raising Day*
Oct 17, 2018 12:11 IST













6/7
*The Black Cat commandos are specially equipped with smart weapons to deal with exceptional circumstances and to counter terror threats to the country. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*




6/7
*National Security Guard (NSG) perform a drill during the Raising Day event. The NSG has two complementary elements in the form of Special Action Group (SAG) comprising Army personnel and the Special Ranger Groups (SRG) with personnel drawn from the Central Armed Police and state Police forces. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*




6/7
*National Security Guard (NSG) commandos showcase skills during the 34th NSG Raising Day commemorations, at the NSG Manesar campus in Gurugram. Raised in 1984, the NSG is an Indian special forces unit under the Ministry of Home Affairs, combating terrorist activities with a view to protect states against internal as well as external disturbances. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*




6/7
*An NSG dog along with a commando performs a drill during the event. NSG commandos are trained to conduct counter terrorist task which include thwarting hijacking attempts, bomb disposal (search, detection and neutralization of IEDs), Post Blast Investigation and hostage rescue missions. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*




6/7
*An Armoured Fighting vehicle with NSG commandos mounted is displayed, at NSG Manesar campus in Gurugram. The NSG also guards 13 high-risk VVIPs in the country, including the Union Home Minister. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*




6/7
*On its 34th Raising Day, addressing to the commandos, Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh said that security forces of the country have prevented any major incident since the 2008 Mumbai attacks and that the forces need to change and keep updating tactics to counter any threat to the country. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*




6/7
*NSG commandos on a ‘stabo rig’ hang below a helicopter in flight, hoisting flags including the Indian triciolour during the Raising Day celebrations. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*




6/7
*The Black Cat commandos are specially equipped with smart weapons to deal with exceptional circumstances and to counter terror threats to the country. (Sanjeev Verma / HT Photo)*

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

Galil SAR













SPG


----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1055464167199645696


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Tonbo NV sights

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## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1056464068465311744


Water Car Engineer said:


> Tonbo NV sights


https://tonboimaging.com/tonbo/portfolio/ek/
Thats TONBO EK Thermal Sight


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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058609357003341824


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## Hindustani78

Unknowncommando said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058609357003341824



Tuesday, October 31, 2017

The Ministry of Defence has launched a global hunt to procure an advanced sniper rifle with thermal imaging night sights and a strike range of 1,200 metres.

"As per the Army's field requirements, the MoD has decided to procure about 5,500 advanced sniper rifles with night sights. The procurement will be carried out in phases and the desired quantity must be delivered  by the supplier within six to 18 months from the day of signing the contract," a senior official with the MoD told TOI over phone.

Army sources said these rifles fail to "recognise" targets beyond 300 metres at night. Also, the shoulder-fired Dragunov does not possess adequate stability. *Pakistani snipers, meanwhile, have been using advanced Austrian rifles against Indian troops along the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir, the sources said.*

Every infantry battalion of the Indian Army has about eight to ten snipers. Commenting on the role of snipers, another senior officer, with extensive experience in the North-East and Jammu and Kashmir, said snipers are an invaluable part of operations. "Snipers are force multipliers. Their expertise often gives that desired advantage to operations," the officer said.















Steyr HS .50




#Iranian AM-50 rifle.”

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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS displaying small arms 



AK 103 , MP5K , MP5SD , MP5A5


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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

















Instructor


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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF & SFF commandos together


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS , VBSS & RSA Personnel


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## Unknowncommando

PARA ( AIRBORNE )

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## Unknowncommando

Presidents Body Guards ( PBG )


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Army Medical Corps Airborne Medics 




NSG SRG

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## Unknowncommando

Para SF small arms 




An ITBP commando during his selection process in NSG. He is carrying SIG 551 SB with 5 magazine clips .

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Hindustani78

The Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju flagging off the NSG Marathon-2018 to pay tribute to the valiant martyrs, in New Delhi on November 18, 2018.






The Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju at the flag-off ceremony of the NSG Marathon-2018 to pay tribute to the valiant martyrs, in New Delhi on November 18, 2018.






The Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju at the flag-off ceremony of the NSG Marathon-2018 to pay tribute to the valiant martyrs, in New Delhi on November 18, 2018.






The Minister of State for Home Affairs, Shri Kiren Rijiju at the flag-off ceremony of the NSG Marathon-2018 to pay tribute to the valiant martyrs, in New Delhi on November 18, 2018.

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## Unknowncommando

Para Airborne


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## Unknowncommando

Indo US Joint Exercise VajraPrahar started today at Mahajan ranges Rajasthan with hoisting of National Flags & playing of National Anthems of both nations. US SF team arrived yesterday & familiarised with Indian Para SF team. Aims to Enhance Interoperability & Mil to Mil Co-op.

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commandos during 2017 Republic Day Parade Rehearsals

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## Unknowncommando

Ex #VajraPrahar2018. 21 नवम्बर 18 को सैनिकों ने छोटे शस्त्र और स्नाइपर फायरिंग का प्रशिक्षण किया। दोनों दल आपसी तालमेल और संयुक्त प्रयास से एक उच्च स्तर के प्रशिक्षण की ओर अग्रसर हैं। #IndianArmy #USArmy


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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

51 Special Action Group (SAG) National Security Guards (NSG)


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## Unknowncommando

NSG 
SPAS 15


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


----------



## Unknowncommando

MARCOS








Israeli Orlite Helmets
PARA AIRBORNE
Tri Service Drill

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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando




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## Unknowncommando

NSG






























AGNIPARIKSHA V
Annual All India Joint Police Commando Training Exercise at NSG training centre , Manesar


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

GHATAKs of SFF & Assam Rifles during training in NSG Manesar Training Centre.


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## Unknowncommando

An #IndianArmy #Paramotor expedition by AOC Centre, Sec'bad under the aegis of Army #Adventure Wing, IHQ of MoD & HQ, Southern Command was flagged off from Rann of Kutch by Col Manu Shukla, CO of a Med Regt. 12 Paramotor pilots, 6 ground crew participating in the expedition.


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS during Indian Navy Day Celebrations Mumbai

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## MimophantSlayer



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG
Kriss Vector , SCAR L & SCAR H are the new inductions in NSG along with SIG716G2 DMR & SIG MPX

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## MimophantSlayer

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 524936
> View attachment 524937
> View attachment 524938
> View attachment 524939
> 
> NSG
> Kriss Vector , SCAR L & SCAR H are the new inductions in NSG along with SIG716G2 DMR & SIG MPX



NSG has Vectors now....  
Are they going to replace the legacy MP5s with the Sigs and Vectors?

NSG have come a long way since 2008.

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## Unknowncommando

CyclopS said:


> NSG has Vectors now....
> Are they going to replace the legacy MP5s with the Sigs and Vectors?
> 
> NSG have come a long way since 2008.


Well there are no reports about that. Because recently SIG MPX & UZI Pro were also inducted in limited numbers. Looks like they are experimenting a lot of firearms to replace MP5 variants. Let's see.

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## Unknowncommando

#INSSunayna mission deployed on 'anti-piracy patrol' in the Gulf of Aden, seizes arms & ammunition from an illegal fishing vessel off Somalia. The vessel engaged in illegal fishing, was in possession of 4 high caliber AK-47s & 1XLMG, along with ammunition

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## Unknowncommando

Kriss Vector




FN F2000




HK PSG 1 , FN MINIMI , MINIMI PARA , SPAS 15 , CORNERSHOT




SIG ROMEO RDS




SIG MPX

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS



















IN VBSS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS & VBSS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG in Kashmir

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## MimophantSlayer

*NSG must have its own air wing, panel urges Centre*


SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT
NEW DELHI, DECEMBER 12, 2018 21:45 IST
UPDATED: DECEMBER 12, 2018 21:45 IST





A Parliamentary panel has recommended that the Centre urgently take steps to ensure that the National Security Guard (NSG) — the country’s premier counter-terrorist and contingency force — is equipped with its own dedicated air wing.

The committee headed by Congress leader P. Chidambaram observed with anguish that the two Mi-17 helicopters procured by the NSG in 1988-99, were grounded and unavailable. While one of the helicopters met with an accident on February 22, 2002, and got damaged extensively; the second one was unserviceable due to want of spare parts.

The 215th Parliamentary Standing Committee Report on Home Affairs tabled in the Rajya Sabha on Wednesday recommended that the “Ministry of Home Affairs should make urgent and sincere efforts to commission a dedicated Air Wing of NSG and provide requisite types and number of air assets to strengthen the aviation capability of the force.”

The NSG’s delay in reaching Mumbai during the November 2008 terrorist attacks on the city had come under severe criticism, with the non-availability of dedicated aircraft hampering the force’s rapid reaction capabilities.

“The Committee observes that NSG has yet not tested its power to commandeer any aircraft in real-time circumstances and feels that, unless this power is used, the force would remain unaware of the response time and logistical challenges that it may face in operational situations,” the panel noted.

The NSG was raised in 1986 following the assassination of former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi and Operation Blue Star. The force, which is trained to operate as an elite urban anti-terrorist and anti-hijack force, doesn’t have a cadre of its own or direct recruitment and is instead dependent on personnel sent on deputation from the army and the central armed police forces (CAPF).
https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...r-wing-panel-urges-centre/article25727279.ece

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## Unknowncommando

51 SAG Snipers

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## Unknowncommando

NSG MARATHON 2018

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## Unknowncommando

Navy ship from Kochi on anti-piracy mission seizes AK-47s

An Indian Naval Ship INS Sunayna carried out an anti-smuggling operation off Somalia coast on Thursday.

According to officials, INS Sunanya, an offshore patrol vessel under the rolls of Southern Naval Command carried out this daring mission after sighting the suspicious fishing vessel approximately 20 nautical miles off the coast of Somalia in the Horn of Africa. INS Sunayna, commanded by Cdr Harish Srinivasan, has been deployed for anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden from October this year.

Navy says the successful operation resulted in seizure of illegal arms like AK-47s and 471 rounds of ammunition.

The fishing vessel was let off after confiscating the arms and ammunition to prevent their illegal use by the crew.

This is the second anti-piracy mission successfully carried out by INS Sunayna in over a month. While patrolling in the region last month, the ship had seized six AK-47s and one Light Machine Gun during a search operation.

Navy says the vigilance exercised by the Indian Navy ships reiterates the commitment of India towards ensuring safe seas for Indian as well as international seafarers in the Indian Ocean Region.

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## Tejas Spokesman

Unknowncommando said:


> NSG MARATHON 2018
> View attachment 526452


Last time NSG topped All India Police shooting competition.
Wonder who won this time?


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## Unknowncommando

Garuds
















firestorm777 said:


> Last time NSG topped All India Police shooting competition.
> Wpnder who won this time?


Rajasthan Police RAC & ERT team won best team award.

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## Unknowncommando

Garud Bump Helmet

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## Unknowncommando

Garuds

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## MimophantSlayer

Garuds

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS in action

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## Nilgiri

As always much appreciated @Unknowncommando bhai.

Love this picture especially:






@hellfire @Joe Shearer @anant_s @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Paramotor Operator

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## Hellfire

Nilgiri said:


> As always much appreciated @Unknowncommando bhai.
> 
> Love this picture especially:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @hellfire @Joe Shearer @anant_s @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ




Slithering onto a RHIB is a - nightmare 

And if sea state +3 and above

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Sniper Team

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

#IndianNavy airlifts Technical Team on damaged Oil Rig Olinda Star in KG Basin by deploying a UH3H helicopter from INS Dega. The helo airlifted technical team & crew members of Olinda Star, a semi-submersible drilling platform in KG Basin off Kakinada
The UH3H helo winched down two MARCOs to facilitate winching down of the technical team and 13 ONGC crew members onto the tilted helo deck of the oil rig and recovered the MARCOs. INS Chetlat a Water Jet Fast Attack Craft was also deployed to render assistance as required.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

GARUDS




MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

26th Special Composite Group from NSG Mumbai Regional Hub

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## Unknowncommando

During RIMPAC







With Russian Marines




MARCOS in action

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

PARA AIRBORNE




PRESIDENT'S BODY GUARD 




AIRBORNE ARTILLERY TROOPS




ARMY MEDICAL CORPS AIRBORNE MEDICS

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## kenyannoobie

Unknowncommando said:


> View attachment 522333
> View attachment 522334
> View attachment 522335
> MARCOS
> View attachment 522336
> 
> View attachment 522337
> 
> Israeli Orlite Helmets
> PARA AIRBORNE
> Tri Service Drill



Wow! A real live Bren gun! I can't remember the last time I saw one operational anywhere. Even here in Kenya they were retired for 240s in the late 80s IIRC.

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## Nilgiri

kenyannoobie said:


> Wow! A real live Bren gun! I can't remember the last time I saw one operational anywhere. Even here in Kenya they were retired for 240s in the late 80s IIRC.



If it aint broke, why fix?  They lay down some great suppressive fire and do the job for general infantry.


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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

78 trainees comprising Marine Commando officers and sailors, officers undertaking Clearance Divers course and sailors undergoing Basic ‘Q’ CD III course from Diving School, Kochi undertook a 35 metre nonstop sea dive off Kochi on 27 December 2018. The platform for the sea dive was INS Sharda and the divers used surface demand diving equipment. All trainees successfully completed the dive which is a prerequisite for qualifying as a ship’s diver in the #IndianNavy.

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## MimophantSlayer

*MARCOS *
*



*

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

A combat freefaller from #IndianArmy 's Para Special Forces performs freefall jump from an ALH DHRUV chopper

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## Unknowncommando

SIG SAUER SG550 Sniper rifle in NSG with 2.5 × 10 Magnification Diavari-Z rail Scope. This is addition to already in service SG551 SB & LB , SG552 Commando , SG553 SB & LB/SOW variants of SG550 series.

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## Unknowncommando

Veer Vikasi
Special Frontier Force 
Tavor 21 with mounted Mepro 21 Sight

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## Unknowncommando

#Equipment_Update #Acchedin 
#Ghatak Platoon #Commando 5th #Gorkha Rifles 
EXFIL Ballistic Helmet by @Team_Wendy. 
AK modifications by @FabDefense. 
Holographic Sight by @cmdbel (Bharat Electronics limited). 
Hydration Camel Back Pack. 
Jai Makaali Ayo Gorkhali

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## BERKEKHAN2

Unknowncommando said:


> #Equipment_Update #Acchedin
> #Ghatak Platoon #Commando 5th #Gorkha Rifles
> EXFIL Ballistic Helmet by @Team_Wendy.
> AK modifications by @FabDefense.
> Holographic Sight by @cmdbel (Bharat Electronics limited).
> Hydration Camel Back Pack.
> Jai Makaali Ayo Gorkhali


WoW

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

#IndianArmy #Ghatak Platoon #Commando 8th #Gorkha Rifles

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG mock drill

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Commando stands guard at Bandra Worli Sea Link

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## Unknowncommando

Para Special Forces Commandos demonstrating during #IndianArmyDay Parade 2019.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG mock drill










Mahila Commando Wing NSG

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

PARA AIRBORNE




Counter Insurgency Jungle Warfare School ( CIJWS )

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## BERKEKHAN2

Unknowncommando said:


> PARA AIRBORNE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Counter Insurgency Jungle Warfare School ( CIJWS )


These tin sheds are vulnerable


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## Unknowncommando

PARA AIRBORNE

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## Unknowncommando

SFF EST. 22

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

3 PARA SF 
B&T MP9 SUPPRESSED 




Ready for the CQB drill

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## Unknowncommando

3 magazine clips on SIG 551 SB . Works as semi sniper.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Crixus

So they have sniper in forces .... as per some expert i pdf India dont even have snipers


Unknowncommando said:


>

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## BERKEKHAN2

Crixus said:


> So they have sniper in forces .... as per some expert i pdf India dont even have snipers


Let them live in there delusions

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## Unknowncommando

Crixus said:


> So they have sniper in forces .... as per some expert i pdf India dont even have snipers


Lol what a joke. Ignore those ' Experts ' .

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Beretta's .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio TGT inducted in Army
First batch reached yesterday along with Barrett M95 .50

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## Nilgiri

Crixus said:


> So they have sniper in forces .... as per some expert i pdf India dont even have snipers



Well such experts also said back in the day that they would fight to the end and last 1000+ years in the most serene mard-e-momin wing of East Pakistan. We all know what happened when push came to literal shove

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

After almost 36 hours of high tempo operations & intense action across the 7516.6 kms of India's coast and Excl Economic Zone, Coastal Defence #ExSeaVigil concludes. @SpokespersonMoD @DefenceMinIndia @IndiaCoastGuard

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## Unknowncommando

Tactical rope ascender , MARCOS during Ex Sea Vigil

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## RPK



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## Unknowncommando

Happy Republic Day

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Para SF

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Army Medical Corps (AMC) Paratrooper

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## Unknowncommando

Colt LE6940 (5.56×45 mm) Originally procured by Karnataka Garuda Force but few pieces are kept in NSG hubs for training & learning purposes so that units visiting their training centres get hands on training on new firearms to keep themselves updated .

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS
Dal Lake Srinagar










AK 103

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## Unknowncommando

AN/PVS 14 Night Vision Multi-purpose Monocular Sight. It can be mounted on IWI Tar series firearms , helmet & head strap mount. 
MARCOS : TAR 21 + Mepro Mor 
GARUD : C-TAR21 + Mepro Mor 
COBRA : X95 + Mepro Mor 
PARA SF : S-TAR 21 + ITL MARS

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

Bharat Electronics Limited Holographic Sight

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDS

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

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## Unknowncommando

#BridgesofFriendship Stealth frigate of #IndianNavy INS Trikand participates in a multinational trg ex CUTLASS EXPRESS-19 from 27 Jan- 06 Feb. The aim of Exercise was to improve law enforcement capacity, promote regional sec & progress inter-operability betn the armed forces of the participating nations for the purpose of interdicting illegal maritime activity in the Western Indian Ocean.

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## Unknowncommando

Tavors Tavors everywhere

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## Unknowncommando

Tavors & Uzi barely visible here.

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF




PARA AIRBORNE 
With Russians during INDRA Ex

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS





During rescue

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

Tri-Service SF

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## Unknowncommando

Go to this link to see more such great pictures of #Para #SpecialForces during #IndianArmy Day 2019. I can't post all here. Link - https://www.picxy.com/photos/v2/?s=Indian+Army …

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

SIG 551 SB ACOG & GL5040 UBGL

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## Unknowncommando

10 PARA SF commando during Pulwama Encounter

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS 
AK 103 + GP25 UBGL + ITL MARS RDS

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## mirage2K

Garuds

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## Mighty Lion

PARA-SF

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## Anik101

Para SF

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## Lord Of Gondor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268228043572731912

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## Lord Of Gondor

@Unknowncommando 
Red Devils' new SAKO TRG 42 Folding Stock MMRS (.338LM) in service 
Credits to original owner

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## Lord Of Gondor

We see the SAKO again!

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## Lord Of Gondor

Para SF operators para dropping into Stakna, Ladakh as a part of demo for the RM.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284081670384017410The Super Herc should be from the Veiled Vipers, not sure.

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## INDIAPOSITIVE



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## INDIAPOSITIVE

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Sharma Ji

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


good discussion, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Vapnope

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


>


Which units will be using FN Scar 5.56X45 mm? There was a news about Sig being procured as well.


----------



## Anik101

Vapnope said:


> Which units will be using FN Scar 5.56X45 mm? There was a news about Sig being procured as well.


144000 Sig716 are being procured for regular troops. FN Scar is for AFSOD.

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## Zapper

Anik101 said:


> 144000 Sig716 are being procured for regular troops. FN Scar is for AFSOD.


The original article regarding SCAR mentioned they're for IA's special forces...so they might be for Para SF


----------



## Lord Of Gondor

> India Army COAS General Manoj Mukund Naravane (Left) during his tenure in Special Frontier Force (SFF). SFF is part of Indian intelligence agency RA&W and is made of Tibetan refugees and Indian Army officers to combat China.


Credits to user

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## Lord Of Gondor

> CDS meets SFF and Army soldiers in Arunachal Pradesh near Tibet border.


credits to twitter handle: TheWolfpackIN


----------



## Anik101

CRPF QAT with Tonbo quadnods

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## Aryeih Leib

Anik101 said:


> CRPF QAT with Tonbo quadnods


Can I say that's more than 5 lacs worth of equipments he is wearing 🤩


----------



## Lord Of Gondor

spot the good boi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349558949008220162

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## Anik101

Para SF recon team







NSG

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## Anik101

Rare Clip of IAF 6 X MI-8s cruising at low alt & dropping 180 x IndianArmy PARATROOPERS at Rajasthan back in 80s .

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334061953501728768
9 Para SF sniper during final assault on Tiger Hill, Kargil war 1999

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## HostileInsurgent

Aryeih Leib said:


> Can I say that's more than 5 lacs worth of equipments he is wearing 🤩


5 lakh? A single piece of Quad tube NVG costs around 40,000 USD so he is having more than 30 lakh Rupees of equipment.

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## PanzerKiel

Anik101 said:


> Rare Clip of IAF 6 X MI-8s cruising at low alt & dropping 180 x IndianArmy PARATROOPERS at Rajasthan back in 80s .
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334061953501728768
> 9 Para SF sniper during final assault on Tiger Hill, Kargil war 1999


Reminds me of Maj Sudhir....9 Para SF .....Zulu Spur...

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## HostileInsurgent

Standard issue AK-47s to Para SF.





IAF Garuds.




Para SF

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## PanzerKiel

Anik101 said:


> Rare Clip of IAF 6 X MI-8s cruising at low alt & dropping 180 x IndianArmy PARATROOPERS at Rajasthan back in 80s .
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334061953501728768
> 9 Para SF sniper during final assault on Tiger Hill, Kargil war 1999

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## HostileInsurgent

CRPF CoBRA

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## Aryeih Leib

HostileInsurgent said:


> 5 lakh? A single piece of Quad tube NVG costs around 40,000 USD so he is having more than 30 lakh Rupees of equipment.
> [/QUOTE
> That's too much


----------



## HostileInsurgent

A very very very old pic of India’s most secret special forces unit SG under R&AW.




???


----------



## PanzerKiel

HostileInsurgent said:


> A very very very old pic of India’s most secret special forces unit SG under R&AW.
> View attachment 732870
> 
> 
> ???


To my knowledge, these men are of SFF.


----------



## HostileInsurgent

PanzerKiel said:


> To my knowledge, these men are of SFF.


SFF doesn’t get SCARs, the SG does. SFF gets Tavor TAR-21s as standard issue and P90-PDW sub machine gun as standard personal defence weapon for protecting His Highness The Dalai Lama. SG was a part of the Establishment 22 but now it is fully under R&AW’s control.



*CRPF Kashmir Valley QAT*


----------



## HostileInsurgent

MARCOS








Exercise Vajra Prahar

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## HostileInsurgent

Indigenous Night Vision Goggles from India’s Tonbo imaging






Para SF

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

Nagaland Police Commando


----------



## INDIAPOSITIVE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382953533486604294

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## Anik101

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382953533486604294


Regular infantry unit not SF


----------



## Lord Of Gondor

Exercise Khanjar kicks off in Bishkek

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## Anik101

*It looks like PARA (Airborne) units are better equipped than PARA (Special Forces)*

SIG SAUER 716i Battle Rifle (7.62×51mm) + Trijicon 3.5×35 ACOG Scope 





S-TAR 21 (Bipod) FLATTOP Assault Rifle (5.56×45mm) + MEPRO MOR Sight + MEPRO MINI HUNTER Night Sight + Suppressor + Flashlight
And
MICRO UZI (9×19mm) + MEPRO MOR Sight + Suppressor

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## Unknowncommando

Anik101 said:


> *It looks like PARA (Airborne) units are better equipped than PARA (Special Forces)*
> 
> SIG SAUER 716i Battle Rifle (7.62×51mm) + Trijicon 3.5×35 ACOG Scope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S-TAR 21 (Bipod) FLATTOP Assault Rifle (5.56×45mm) + MEPRO MOR Sight + MEPRO MINI HUNTER Night Sight + Suppressor + Flashlight
> And
> MICRO UZI (9×19mm) + MEPRO MOR Sight + Suppressor
> View attachment 736869


Full Pic 6 PARA 'AIRBORNE'





SF has same equipment in more numbers it is just there are not many SF pics with new stuff.

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## Unknowncommando

4th PARA (SF)








9 PARA 'Field Regiment' (Artillery)

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## HostileInsurgent

Unknowncommando said:


> Full Pic 6 PARA 'AIRBORNE'
> View attachment 739401
> 
> 
> SF has same equipment in more numbers it is just there are not many SF pics with new stuff.


For gd’s sake give them AR-15s. Israelis themselves don’t use Tavors in special forces except few units.

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## Lord Of Gondor

@Unknowncommando Nice to see your posts again. Thanks for the great images.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Metal 0-1

A US GPNVG-18 is 42000$ a piece not this stuff.
10000$ max for this Tonbo Tonbo


HostileInsurgent said:


> A single piece of Quad tube NVG costs around 40,000 USD


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## HostileInsurgent

Metal 0-1 said:


> A US GPNVG-18 is 42000$ a piece not this stuff.
> 10000$ max for this Tonbo Tonbo


Tonbo’s BNVD alone costs more than the amount you quoted.


Lord Of Gondor said:


> Exercise Khanjar kicks off in Bishkek


Never seen Bakelite magazines in Indian Service, seems like those AKs belong to the host country.


----------



## Unknowncommando

6 PARA 'AIRBORNE'

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## Reichsmarschall

PanzerKiel said:


> To my knowledge, these men are of SFF.


Sir do we have a force like their SG?

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## HostileInsurgent

CRPR COBRA (MARPAT) and Kashmir Valey QAT (UCP).

From left to right
1. Arsenal AK with OFB UBGL
2. Tavor X-95 with Mepro Mor holographic sight
3. FAB Mod Arsenal AK, Tonbo Arjun Thermal Imaging sight and Tonbo BNVD-P Quad tube night vision goggles
4. Arsenal AK with Tonbo Arjun Thermal Imaging sight and the same on his high cut helmet
5. Arsenal AK with Tonbo Arjun Thermal Imaging sigHt
6. Bren LMG 7.52x51 NATO.

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## HostileInsurgent

NSG

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## PanzerKiel

Reichsmarschall said:


> Sir do we have a force like their SG?


Yes.

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## khansaheeb

PanzerKiel said:


> Yes.


and they don't get thrown into rivers.

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## Unknowncommando

10 PARA SF
Exercise INDRA 2019




Note That 2nd guy is not a MARCO. SF also use UCP combat T shirts & pants.

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## Unknowncommando

COBRA P2 Helmet
S-TAR 21 + ACOG
Hungarian AK-63D

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## Unknowncommando

NAGROTA Encounter 2019

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## Unknowncommando

SF with Old High Cuts 














SS from Regiment Diaries Episode on PARA REGT.

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## Unknowncommando

6th Airborne demonstration

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## Unknowncommando

New IWI S-TAR 21 'FLATTOP' of Parachute Regiment
Can be seen here with Bipod + Suppressor + MEPRO MOR Reflex Sight + MEPRO MINI HUNTER Night Vision Sight





PARA REGT. first ordered in 2005, SFF in 2003 & MARCOS-GARUDs in around 2009-10.
In 2020 more FLATTOPs were procured for the Regiment and also being issued to Airborne battalions which were less in numbers before.

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## Unknowncommando

Parachute Regiment is also receiving new SIG SAUER 716i Battle Rifle




With BEL Holographic Sight (Desi Eotech)

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs




TAR-21 





NEGEV LMG














S-TAR 21 with NIMROD Scopes

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## Unknowncommando

GARUDs










S-TAR 21 with MEPRO X6

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## Unknowncommando

NSG













Joint Exercise with CISF

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF QAT operator with Team Wendy EXFIL Helmet + TONBO P-BNVD




ARSENAL AR-M1F41 + FAB DEFENSE MOD + TONBO ARJUN Thermal Sight 







FAB DEFENSE T-POD (Foregrip cum BIPOD)
Gunshot Detector

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF QAT
SM CARAPACE LEVEL III+ Helmets
ACH/MICH + Ballistic Applique

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## HostileInsurgent

Unknowncommando said:


> CRPF QAT operator with Team Wendy EXFIL Helmet + TONBO P-BNVD
> View attachment 739681
> 
> ARSENAL AR-M1F41 + FAB DEFENSE MOD + TONBO ARJUN Thermal Sight
> View attachment 739682
> View attachment 739683
> 
> FAB DEFENSE T-POD (Foregrip cum BIPOD)
> Gunshot Detector


That’s such a small battery pack, how much is the battery life of the small packs? Coz they are not acting as an apt counter balance here, also that dude’s AN/PEQ-15 is missing here.


----------



## Unknowncommando

ARJUN-H Thermal Sight on Helmet





ARJUN ARJ-17 On Gun





ARJUN ARJ-12

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS Joint Ex with Russians

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## Aryeih Leib

Unknowncommando said:


> Full Pic 6 PARA 'AIRBORNE'
> View attachment 739401
> 
> 
> SF has same equipment in more numbers it is just there are not many SF pics with new stuff.


Wow sir you are back here


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## HostileInsurgent

Garud




Garud

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## paritosh

Unknowncommando said:


> Parachute Regiment is also receiving new SIG SAUER 716i Battle Rifle
> View attachment 739663
> 
> With BEL Holographic Sight (Desi Eotech)


What’s the underbarrel attachment?


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## Unknowncommando

paritosh said:


> What’s the underbarrel attachment?


Flashlight


----------



## Lord Of Gondor

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Exercise Khanjar kicks off in Bishkek


The transport was provided by the IAF Spec Ops C-130J-30 KC-3809 from the "Raiding Raptors" (Eastern Air Command asset)




Image credit to the Photographer/Jetphotos

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## Unknowncommando

NSG in Kashmir
AKs were modified for Valley Ops

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS & Navy VBSS

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

NSG 26th SCG

SIG SAUER MPX + Romeo








H&K MP5-A5 with Element Angle Sight








SIG SAUER 553 Commando/SB + ACOG

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## Unknowncommando

3 PARA (SF)

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
FN MINIMI, SIG SAUER 553 SB, H&K MP5-A5 & SIG SAUER 551 SB

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS in Valley

AK-103 + MEPRO MOR

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## Unknowncommando

SIX PARA 'Airborne'

PKM LMG + Primary Arms Compact 3x





SIG SAUER 716i
MEPRO BOXER NVD





IWI GALIL Sniper Rifle + Nimrod 6x40 Scope





IWI TAVOR FLATTOP + MEPRO MOR
SIG SAUER 716i + MEPRO MINI HUNTER Night Vision Sight


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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
SPAS-15 & MP5-A5

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs in Kashmir

FAB DEFENSE Modified AK + FALKE LE QL Reflex
IWI TAR-21 + Nimrod 6x40 Scope
FAB DEFENSE Modified AK + MEPRO MOR Sight

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## Unknowncommando

NSG

MP5-SD6 + Zeiss Sight 
GLOCK 19

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## Unknowncommando

FIRST PERSON view of a MARCO TAVOR with MEPRO MOR Reflex Sight

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## Unknowncommando

PARAs in Bangalore

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs drill


















High Cut Bumps are better than these old impact resistant helmets used for para jumps & training

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
MP5-SD6 & SIG SAUER 553 SB/Commando




Old photo as their are wearing old Spetsnaz type helmets

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

7 PARA 'Airborne'
FAB MOD AK with Zeiss Sight











IWI MICRO UZI with MEPRO MOR Sight

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## Unknowncommando

GARUDs


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## Unknowncommando

NSG


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## Unknowncommando

SPG Counter Assault Team Member

FN SCAR H with Trijicon ACOG-RMR Combo Sights
T-FL 7 Position Foregrip from FAB DEFENSE


----------



## Unknowncommando

Marine Commando
G-TAR 21 with ARCUS 40mm UBGL

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

NSG's Renault Sherpa

NSG Manesar





NSG 26 SCG (Mumbai Reginal Hub)





28 SCG (Hyderabad Reginal Hub)

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## Unknowncommando

Marine Commando


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## Unknowncommando

6 PARA AIRBORNE

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## Unknowncommando

NSG 29 SCG (Kolkata Regional Hub)

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS Frogmen training

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

NSG Mock Drills
28 SCG
Reminds me of German SEK & American SWAT Teams 





26 SCG in Mumbai Local Train





NSG in PATNA with local cops

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## Unknowncommando

NSG
30 SCG (Ahmedabad Regional Hub)

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF QAT

Bulgarian ARSENAL AR-M1F41 with FAB DEFENSE Modifications & FALKE LE GEN 2 Sight




FAB DEFENSE Foregrip cum Bipod T-POD

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Unknowncommando said:


> MARCOS Frogmen training
> View attachment 740296
> View attachment 740297


Really nice camouflage


----------



## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs & RAF Force Protection Joint Exercise

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## Unknowncommando

Joint Exercise GARUDA SHAKTI 2019
Seven PARA 'Airborne' from our side & Para Raiders from Indonesian Side

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Combat Divers

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## Unknowncommando

3 PARA 'SF'

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## Unknowncommando

SF

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs

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## Unknowncommando

GARUDs

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF's new Sniper & Battle Rifles 

SAKO TRG 42 Folding Stock MMRS .338






SIG SAUER 716i .308

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## Unknowncommando



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## Varunastra

Unknowncommando said:


> Joint Exercise GARUDA SHAKTI 2019
> Seven PARA 'Airborne' from our side & Para Raiders from Indonesian Side
> View attachment 740542
> View attachment 740543
> View attachment 740544
> View attachment 740545
> View attachment 740546
> View attachment 740547
> View attachment 740548
> View attachment 740549


@Indos / @Unknowncommando are para raiders considered sf? Or regular para unit?


----------



## Indos

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> @Indos / @Unknowncommando are para raiders considered sf? Or regular para unit?



Raiders is a unit that comes from regular infantery and they are being trained with sophisticated technic like SF. We are doing it in steps, so in the long run we will have many regular soldiers with SF quality.

They are the backbone of PPRC or something we call big and united military unit to do some military strike against enemy position whether it is intended for taking back some of our occupied region from foreign infantery assault or doing some major invasion.

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## Unknowncommando

CRPF QAT

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando

SPG Special Intervention Unit (SIU) CT/CI Unit

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## Unknowncommando

SPG Counter Assault Team

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## Unknowncommando



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## Unknowncommando




----------



## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUDs

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## Varunastra




----------



## Anik101

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> View attachment 747001


RR Ghatak?


----------



## Varunastra

Anik101 said:


> RR Ghatak?


Yes and SOG at the background.


----------



## INDIAPOSITIVE

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411179731613995009

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## HostileInsurgent

Ghatak Commando Platoon





6 Para Airborne


----------



## HostileInsurgent

@Unknowncommando do you know anything about that PNVG RFI issued by Northern Command? Alpha Defence guy said it’s for infantry modernisation but it seemed to be a slip of tongue as a single piece of quad tube NVG is more expensive than my net worth lol.


----------



## HostileInsurgent

Indian Airforce Garud




MARCOS with Russian VSK-94 DMR


----------



## HostileInsurgent

😉😉😎







Even though they are regular infantry, but still…
.








*Nagaland Police STF*








.















*Para SF during Nagrota Encounter



*


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## HostileInsurgent

.









*CRPF Kashmir Valley QAT*





With Quad tube panoramic NVG




An old pic of 10 Para SF




.








Indian Airforce Garud

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## HostileInsurgent

4 Para SF




Indian Airforce Garud Commandos with Light Combat Helicopter LSP.




.



Indian Navy MARCOS




.



10 Para SF

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## HostileInsurgent

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375652019902447616.






Exercise Vajra Prahaar




.




Kashmir Police Special Operations Group

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## HostileInsurgent

Indian Airforce and Royal Airforce Commados joint exercise

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## HostileInsurgent

*Indian Airforce Garud somewhere in Kashmir*

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## HostileInsurgent

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSOD_INDIA/comments/ld37dv




​

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## HostileInsurgent

*Indian Airforce Garud*​

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## HostileInsurgent

*Indian Navy MARCOS



*​


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## HostileInsurgent

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


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## HostileInsurgent

What happened to the modernisation planned for 2020-21?


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## HostileInsurgent

@Unknowncommando Indian Navy MARCOS .











HostileInsurgent said:


> @Unknowncommando Indian Navy MARCOS .


@Protest_again @VkdIndian @rEd cHiLLi @vishwambhar @koolzberg @MirageBlue 
Indian Navy MARCOS with Dual Tube NVGs, seeing them for the first time as they don’t flaunt their gear much, don’t know the model.

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## HostileInsurgent

HostileInsurgent said:


> @Unknowncommando Indian Navy MARCOS .
> View attachment 761309
> 
> View attachment 761308
> 
> 
> @Protest_again @VkdIndian @rEd cHiLLi @vishwambhar @koolzberg @MirageBlue
> Indian Navy MARCOS with Dual Tube NVGs, seeing them for the first time as they don’t flaunt their gear much.


And ya those are Gen 3+ PVS-31 Binocular Nightvision Devices.


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## HostileInsurgent

HostileInsurgent said:


> @Unknowncommando Indian Navy MARCOS .
> View attachment 761309
> 
> View attachment 761308
> 
> 
> @Protest_again @VkdIndian @rEd cHiLLi @vishwambhar @koolzberg @MirageBlue
> Indian Navy MARCOS with Dual Tube NVGs, seeing them for the first time as they don’t flaunt their gear much, don’t know the model.


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## HostileInsurgent




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## HostileInsurgent

*Indian Navy MARCOS with Chinese Type-56 AK-47 Assault Rifle*


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## HostileInsurgent

HostileInsurgent said:


> @Unknowncommando Indian Navy MARCOS .
> View attachment 761309
> 
> View attachment 761308
> 
> 
> @Protest_again @VkdIndian @rEd cHiLLi @vishwambhar @koolzberg @MirageBlue
> Indian Navy MARCOS with Dual Tube NVGs, seeing them for the first time as they don’t flaunt their gear much, don’t know the model.





HostileInsurgent said:


> View attachment 761315



Yep it’s the AN/PVS-31C-BNVD


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## HostileInsurgent

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/oi1dl6


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## HostileInsurgent

4 Para SF

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## Black Tornado




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## Black Tornado

MARCOS


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## Anik101

Sudarshan said:


> View attachment 769758


Airborne or SF?


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## Black Tornado

Anik101 said:


> Airborne or SF?


Airborne


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## Lord Of Gondor

India received AK-15 for SOF units!
https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=555763&lang=RU

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430110131019264015Thanks to @saumyasupratik on Twitter for the news too


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## Black Tornado

*Big if true!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461005830317355023


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## applesauce

Sudarshan said:


> *Big if true!*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461005830317355023



why is it surprising?? those are pretty common for special forces in any larges-ish nation.


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## Black Tornado

applesauce said:


> why is it surprising?? those are pretty common for special forces in any larges-ish nation.


Its not for Indian Airforce SF units


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## -=virus=-

The 4 tube NVGs are made in India, right ? Think I read something about some Indian company even supplying them to some NATO countries.

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## Erebus

-=virus=- said:


> The 4 tube NVGs are made in India, right ? Think I read something about some Indian company even supplying them to some NATO countries.



Seems like they are made by tonbo as mentioned here:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/kx024k

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## Black Tornado

*Indian Navy MARCOS*

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543436870243065857

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## KendoKhan

HostileInsurgent said:


> Indian Airforce and Royal Airforce Commados joint exercise
> View attachment 760504


Those aren't commandos, *the RAF hasn't had commandos since WWII*, it does however have its own gunner regiment literally known as the RAF Regiment, the rocker on the shoulder and TRF (Tactical Recognition Flash) small green patch on the shoulder is a dead give away of who these guys are:


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## Varunastra

RIMPAC 2022 Showing US, South Korean and Indian special forces

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## Black Tornado

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/vro6mr

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

MARCOS

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## INDIAPOSITIVE



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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Sea Vigil-2022

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

Sailors with NSW, the JMSDF Special Boarding Unit and Indian Navy Marine Commando Force (MARCOS) conduct a visit, board, search, and seizure drill Nov. 8 as part of Malabar 2022.

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## Unknowncommando

Anti Tank Mobile Teams of Shatrujeet Brigade train to enhance capability of rapid deployment in support of Airborne operations.


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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Sea Vigil - 2022
NSG, 27 Special Composite Group (SCG), Chennai Regional Hub

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## Reels

Unknowncommando said:


> Exercise Sea Vigil - 2022
> NSG, 27 Special Composite Group (SCG), Chennai Regional Hub



I liked the dress.

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## Unknowncommando

The anti-Hijack Exercise was conducted with a mock situation created and involved actions by various agencies including Marine Commandos, Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), Airport Authority of India and the State Government agencies.

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## Unknowncommando

Marine Commando slithering from a SeaKing

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF Combat Divers training with Tavor replicas

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## Unknowncommando

Maiden Trilateral Exercise IMT TRILAT. Joint Maritime Exercise between Navies of 🇲🇿 Mozambique & 🇹🇿 Tanzania at Dar Es Salaam 27-29 October 2022. INS Tarkash, a Chetak helo & MARCOS (Special Forces) represented the Indian Navy.

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## Unknowncommando

Tri-Services training at Andaman Nicobar Islands.

IN MARCOS & IA PARA SF slithering from an IAF Mi-17V5

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## Unknowncommando

Special Forces rehearsed their rapid reaction drills along the borders in close coordination with the Mechanised Forces of Strike Corps. Combat Freefall, Static Line drop and Precision drop of Light Strike Vehicle was carried out.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS
Training together for Interoperability. Indian Navy's Mobile Training Team conducting joint training with 🇲🇬 Malagasy Armed Forces - Asymmetric Warfare, Maritime Interdiction Operations, Close Quarter Battle & Demolition Training.

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## Unknowncommando

Live Operational Demo by the MARCOS at Sabarmati River Front, Ahmedabad on 18 Oct 22, as part of DefExpo2022.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS












PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Glimpses of training by 21 PARA SF Waghnakhs & Army Aviation, "Somewhere Over Brahmaputra" in Assam.

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## Unknowncommando

Army Special Forces combat divers operating from ALH Dhruv

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## Unknowncommando

Indian Navy Marine Commandos (MARCOS)

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## Unknowncommando

India, Israel conducted security drills in New Delhi last week. These were the biggest such security drills between the 2. The security drill involved the participation of Home Ministry, Delhi Police, the National Security Guard, and local emergency forces.

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## Unknowncommando

Special Frontier Force (SFF) & Ghatak Platoon

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF

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## Unknowncommando

Indian Navy Divers & Marine Commandos are in Maldives for 5th Edition of Exercise Ekatha with 🇲🇻 MNDF Official Marine Corps 05 Sep - 03 Oct 22. Started in 2017, Exercise Ekatha is conducted annually with the aim of joint training in Diving & Asymmetric Warfare & enhance interoperability.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS & Nigerian Naval SOF
INS Tarkash participated in a Joint Maritime Exercise with 🇳🇬 Nigerian Navy Patrol Ships NNS Kano, Osun, Sokoto & Nguru.

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## Unknowncommando

Ghatak Platoon

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## Unknowncommando

JATE "Manesar Anti-Terror 2022" in progress at NSG Manesar. Nuances of Planning, preparation & conduct of Anti-Terrorist operations jointly being discussed & deliberated upon by the experts from National Counter Terrorism Forces of participating SCO member countries.

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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS with Togolese Naval Personnel

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF High Altitude Training

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## Unknowncommando

To enhance inter service synergy between Indian Navy MARCOS and Rudras of Thar Raptors Brigade, the formation conducted Exercise Rudra Prahar, a Joint Exercise to hone their skills of joint man ship and interoperability.

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## Unknowncommando

Vajra Prahar Special Forces troops of Indian Army & US Army participated in grueling 48 hours long Validation Exercise to validate Battle Drills to include Recce, Surveillance, Target Designation & Direct Action during ongoing Joint Exercise.

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## Unknowncommando

Ghatak Platoon

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## Unknowncommando

29 PARA SF during Independence Day Celebrations

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## Unknowncommando

General Manoj Pande COAS visited Spear corps & reviewed the operational preparedness. COAS was briefed by the Commanders on border management & internal security situation.

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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Vajra Prahar 2022
Special Forces troops of Indian Army & US Army practiced series of tactical drills during the ongoing joint exercise.

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## Unknowncommando

Special Protection Group (SPG) Special Intervention Unit (SIU)

Atchisson AA-12 Automatic Assault Shotgun & FN Five-Seven Pistol

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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Vajra Prahar 2022
Indian Army Parachute Regiment Special Forces (PARA SF) & US Army Special Forces Group (Green Berets)

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## Unknowncommando

An Indian Navy high-altitude combat diving camp at Idukki which is used to train combat divers from Army, Navy and various Central Armed Police Forces.


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## Unknowncommando

Indian Army and Marine Commandos practice Special Heli Borne Operations along with newly commissioned INAS 325 ALH Mk III somewhere in Andaman and Nicobar Islands

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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

Air Force Para Jump Instructors


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## Unknowncommando

India-Indonesia Joint Special Forces Exercise Garud Shakti 2022 commenced at Cilodong, Indonesia with focus on Counter-Terrorism operations, Close Combat Battle & Marksmanship training.


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## Unknowncommando

Indian Navy Marine Commandos (MARCOS)
Exercise RIMPAC 2022


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS
INS Tarkash conducted a Maritime Partnership Exercise with 🇸🇩 Sudan Navy ships Almazz (PC 411) & Nimer (PC 413) in Red Sea off Sudan Naval Base on 07 Jul 22. Maneuvers, flying ops & visit & board ops conducted.


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## Unknowncommando

Indian Navy MARCOS, 🇰🇷 South Korean Navy SEALs, 🇯🇵 Japanese Navy SBU, 🇺🇸 US Navy NSW and 🇩🇪 German Maritime Interdiction Operations Company Special Operations Forces conduct a visit, board, search and seizure (VBSS) training during RIMPAC 2022.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA (SF) divers jumping from an Advance Light Helicopter DHRUV.


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## Unknowncommando

IAF GARUD


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

The 9th Edition of India 🇰🇬 Kyrgyzstan Joint Special Forces Exercise was conducted at Special Forces Training School, Bakloh. The exercise has strengthened mutual confidence & interoperability between Special Forces of both the Nations against emergent threats. The Exercise was focused on sharing Tactics, Techniques, Procedures & entailed combat shooting, survival in mountains, hostage rescue drills & unarmed combat.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS


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## Unknowncommando

In a well coordinated multi-agency operation at sea, the Narcotics Control Bureau (NCB), with active support of Indian Navy MARCOS, successfully seized 800kgs of narcotics substances


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## Unknowncommando

Spartan Paratroopers and Indian Army PARA SF soldiers had the opportunity to familiarize themselves with each other's weapon systems to enhance their understanding of capabilities during Yudh Abhyas, Nov. 20.


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF


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## Unknowncommando

Special Frontier Force (SFF)


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## Unknowncommando

PARA SF during Army Day 2022, 15th January


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS Amphibious Assault & landing ops.


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## rcjunwal

Hi, I am an Indian citizen working here since last 30 years in government entity. I am fed up with the system here and want to become a spy for Pakistani intelligence. How to join?


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## Unknowncommando

MARCOS
Western Naval Command conducted an offshore security exercise ‘Prasthan’ in the Offshore Development Area (ODA) off Mumbai on 16 Nov. Contingencies such as terrorist intrusion, bomb explosion, major fire, oil spill, mass evacuation, etc. were exercised.


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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Garuda Shakti 2022 Jungle Warfare training & tactical drills for Room Intervention were practiced during the ongoing joint Exercise, to share best practices & enhance interoperability.


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## Unknowncommando

Exercise Garuda Shakti 2022


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## Two banks of the River

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597283165349249024
Indian Special Forces doing fabulous jobs. Acceptance by Chinese themselves.

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## Hellfire2006

Two banks of the River said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597283165349249024
> Indian Special Forces doing fabulous jobs. Acceptance by Chinese themselves.


More reports of dead PLA troops from 2020 will keep coming in and they'll be brushed aside by quoting weather casualties. CCP did a huge blunder by hiding PLA deaths

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