# Mythological Weapons



## divya

*Astra​*
In Hindu mythology, an astra was a supernatural weapon, presided over by a specific deity. To summon or use an astra required knowledge of a specific incantation/invocation, when armed. The deity invoked would then endow the weapon, making it impossible to counter through regular means. Specific conditions existed involving the usage of astras, the violation of which could be fatal. Because of the power involved, the knowledge involving an astra was passed from a teacher to a pupil by word of mouth alone, and only following the establishment of the student's character. Certain astras had to be handed down from the deity involved directly, knowledge of the incantation being insufficient.
Astras come into importance mainly in the Ramayana and Mahabharata, where they are used in the great battles described in each epic. They are depicted as used by archers such as Rama, Arjuna, Bheeshma etc. The astras were generally invoked into arrows, although they could potentially be used with anythingAshwatthama invoked an astra using a blade of grass as his weapon

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## divya

Brahmastra​

In ancient Sanskrit writings, a Brahmastra (IAST: Brahm&#257;stra, sanskrit: &#2348;&#2381;&#2352;&#2361;&#2381;*&#2350;&#2366;&#2360;&#2381;*&#2340;&#2381;&#2352 is a weapon created by Brahma. It is sometimes known as the Brahma Astra (Astra means 'weapon'). As described in a number of the Puranas, it is considered the deadliest weapon. It is said that when a Brahmastra is discharged, there is neither a counter attack nor a defense that may stop it. It is believed that the Brahmastra never misses its mark and must be used with very specific intent against an individual enemy or army, as the target will face complete annihilation. It is believed to be obtained by meditating on the Creator in Vedic mythology, Lord Brahma, and used only once in a lifetime. The user would have to display immense amounts of mental concentration. According to ancient Sanskrit writings, the Brahmastra is invoked by a key phrase or invocation that is bestowed upon the user when given this weapon. Through this invocation the user can call upon the weapon and use it via a medium against his adversary.
Since Brahma is considered the Creator in Sanatana Dharma, it is believed that Brahmastra was created by him for the purpose of upholding Dharma and Satya, to be used by anyone who wished to destroy an enemy who would also happen to be a part of his (Brahma's) creation. The target, when hit by Brahmastra, would be utterly destroyed.
The weapon also causes severe environmental damage. The land where the weapon is used becomes barren for eons and all life in and around that area ceases to exist. Women and men become infertile. There is severe decrease in rainfall and the land develops cracks like in a drought. There are various descriptions of weapons created by Hindu deities such as Agneyastra, Brahmastra, Chakra, Garudastra, Kaumodaki, Narayanastra, Pashupatastra, Shiva Dhanush, Sudarshana Chakra, Trishul, Vaishnavastra, Varunastra, and Vayavastra; the weapons of god (trishul, chakram, bramahstarm) are the most powerful. These mythological weapons are at times compared to similar Greek mythological weapons such as the arrows of Apollo as well as our modern nuclear weapons.
[edit]Uses

There are numerous instances within Sanskrit scriptures where the Brahmastra is used or use is threatened, including:
The confrontation of Arjuna and Ashwatthama in Mahabharata, where Arjuna retracts his weapon as ordered, but Ashwatthama, unable to do so, instead sends it to attack Arjuna's unborn grandson, Parikshit, who is subsequently saved by Krishna. Ashwatthama did not have his bow and arrow near him when he was confronted by Arjuna. So he took a piece of straw and after silently invoking the phrase he threw the straw at Arjuna, which carried the power of the Brahmastra. In response, Arjuna also invoked his Bramhastra to counter the other. But the collision of two Bramhastras would have destroyed the universe; so, Vyasdev came between the two Bramhastras and prevented the collision. Arjuna called back his Bramhastra, but Aswathama did not know this art. So, he wished to change the target and charged Parikshit, the unborn grandchild of Arjuna.
Similarly, in the Ramayana a Brahmastra is used by Rama as the "final blow" against Rakshasa Ravana during their battle in Lanka. Also, Indrajeet used Brahmastra against Hanuman when he was destroying tha Ashok Vatika after meeting Sita. Lakshman (Shri Ram's younger brother) also tried to use it with Meghnath in the same battle, but Ram stopped him from using that saying "the use of Brahamastra for this cause is not justified and is not beneficial for mankind."

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## divya

Pashupatastra​

The Pashupatastra (IAST: P&#257;&#347;upat&#257;stra, sanskrit: &#2346;&#2366;&#2358;&#2369;&#2346;&#2340;&#2366;&#2360;&#2381;&#2340;&#2381;&#2352, in Hindu mythology, is the irresistible and most destructive personal weapon of Shiva, discharged by the mind, the eyes, words, or a bow. Never to be used against lesser enemies or by lesser warriors, the Pashupatastra is capable of destroying creation and vanquishing all beings. PashupatiNath is the most important of all Shiva temples located in Kathmandu, Nepal. Pashupatastra is the weapon of PashupatiNath.

This Pashupatastra was used in the Mahabharata war by Arjuna to kill Jayadratha. It was used against Lakshmana by Meghanada. It returned without causing any harm since it can be used only to uphold Dharma. Shiva is also known as Shambhu, Pashupatinath, Hara, Pinakadhrik, bearer of the axe and Mrityunjaya, conqueror of death. He is the spouse of Shakti, the goddess. He also is represented by Mahakala and Bhairava, the terrible, as well as many other forms including Rudra.[1]

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## divya

*Indraastra* Would bring about a 'shower' of arrows from the sky.


*Agniastra*The weapon discharged would emit flames inextinguishable through normal means.

*Varunaastra* The weapon discharged would release torrential volumes of water. This weapon is commonly mentioned as used to counter the Agneyastra.

*Nagaastra* The weapon would have an inerring aim and take on the form of a snake, proving deadly upon impact.

*Nagapaasha* Upon impact, this weapon would bind the target in coils of living venomous snakes.(in the Ramayana, it was used against Lord Rama and Lakshmana by Indrajit)


*Vayvayaastra*Bring about a gale capable of lifting armies off the ground.

*Suryastra	Surya* Create a dazzling light that would dispel any darkness about.
*Vajra*Target would be struck with bolts of lightning (vajra referring to Indra's thunderbolt).

*Mohini* Dispel any form of maya or sorcery in the vicinity.

*Twashtar*When used against a group of opponents (such as an army), would cause them to mistake each other for enemies and fight each other.

*Sammohana/Pramohana*Would cause entire hosts/armies to collapse in a trance.

*Parvataastra* Would cause a Parvata/mountain to fall on the target from the skies.

*Brahmasirsha	*Capable of killing devas. Was used by Ashwatthama on Parikshit. It is thought that the Brahmasirsha is the evolution of the Brahmastra

*Narayanaastra*Would create showers of arrows and discs. The astra's power would increase with the resistance offered to it. This weapon had to be obtained from Vishnu directly, and could be used only once. If the user were to attempt invoking it a second time, it would rebound on him, and possibly, his troops.

*Vaishnavaastra* Would destroy target completely, irrespective of target's nature. Infallible. This weapon had to be obtained from Vishnu directly.

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## Nalwa

Interesting. We could use some examples from the Greek and Roman mythological world as well.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Its all a part of literature.


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## divya

*Gandiva​*

The Gandiva (IAST: G&#257;&#7751;d&#299;va; Sanskrit: &#2327;&#2366;&#2339;&#2381;&#2337;&#2368;&#2357 is the bow of Arjuna, the hero of the Hindu epic Mahabharata.
The bow was created by Brahman of old (not to be confused with Brahma, the Creator), the supreme God in Hindu theology. Jayith held it first for a thousand years. Afterwards, Prajapati held it for five hundred and three years. After that Indra, for five and eighty years. And then Soma held it for five hundred years. And after that Varuna held it for a hundred years before handing it to Arjuna along with a Kapi/ Hanuman bannered chariot, two inexhaustible quivers, as requested by Agni during the Khandava-daha Parva. The bow was decorated with hundreds of gold bosses, and had radiant ends. The bow was worshipped by Devas, Gandharvas and Danavas. Arjuna used it in Kurukshetra war and he was invincible. It is said that beside Lord Krishna no one except Arjuna could wield the bow in the mortal world. The bow, when twanged made the sound of thunder. Gandiva is parallel in its fame to its famous wielder. The name of Arjuna and Gandiva are spoken in single breath.
After the war, in Svargarohanika Parva, Agni reappears before Arjuna and asks him to return Gandiva along with the quivers to Varuna, the final sign of the end of the hero, the myth that Arjuna was in Earth.

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## divya

*Vajra*​
Vajra (Devanagari: &#2357;&#2332;&#2381;&#2352;, Chinese: &#37329;&#21083; j&#299;ng&#257;ng; Tibetan: &#3938;&#4001;&#3964;&#3851;&#3938;&#3991;&#3962;; Wylie: rdo-rje; ZWPY: dojê, Japanese: Kongou &#37329;&#21083 is a Sanskrit word meaning both thunderbolt and diamond.[1] As a material device, the vajra is a ritual object, a short metal weapon - originally a kind of fist-iron like Japanese yawara - that has the symbolic nature of a diamond (it can cut any substance but not be cut itself) and that of the thunderbolt (irresistible force).
The vajra is believed to represent firmness of spirit and spiritual power.[2] It is a ritual tool or spiritual implement which is symbolically used by Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism, all of which are traditions of Dharma. Because of its symbolic importance, the vajra spread along with Indian religion and culture to other parts of Asia. It was used as both a weapon and a symbol in Nepal, India, Tibet, Bhutan, Siam, Cambodia, Myanmar, China, Korea and Japan.[citation needed]
The equivalent word in Tibetan is dorje[1][3] (Wylie: rdo-rje; ZWPY: dojê), which is also a common male name in Tibet and Bhutan. Dorje can also refer to a small sceptre held in the right hand by Tibetan lamas during religious ceremonies.
In the Burmese language, three words come from Pali vajira, (Burmese: &#4125;&#4103;&#4141;&#4123 including "diamond" (Burmese: &#4101;&#4141;&#4116;&#4154; sein or Burmese: &#4125;&#4103;&#4142;&#4123; wazira), "thunderbolt [of Indra]" (Burmese: &#4125;&#4123;&#4103;&#4141;&#4116;&#4154; wazarein).

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## divya

IND_PAK said:


> Can they beat JF 17???



Well we just need to figure out the mantra or the passcode frequency of the Bhramastra


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## divya

As per hinduism the weapons were used with the use of the mantra which were in turn had a definete set of frequencies for recitation which produced the intended effect. Those mantras were never written for the sake that they never get into wrong hands. The mantras were just passed on orally from a teacher to a student. Over the period of time those mantras got lost with the corruption of men.

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## divya

*Asi (Mahabharata)*​


Frame narrative

Out of curiosity, Nakula, the fourth son of Pandu and the master of swordsmanship, had questioned the Kuru Grandsire Bhishma, on his arrowy death bed, as to which was the best weapon in all kinds of fighting. In his own personal views, Nakula thought the sword to be the most superior, since even on having lost one's bow, horse and the chariot, a skilful swordsman could still defend himself against the mace and spear wielders. Nakula further queried the Grandsire about the origin and purpose of the Khadga as well as about its first acharya("teacher, preceptor").
Gladdened by these intelligent queries by Nakula, Bhishma related to him the complete Itihaasa (Sanskrit term for 'History') of the Khadga or "divine sword" starting from its creation down to the present (i.e., time of Bharata war).
[edit]Creation of asi

The Gods, or rather Devas, approached Brahma, the creator of the universe, and protested against the unjust rule and evil doings of the demons (Danavas, namely Asuras, who belonged to a evil human race with giant build). Hearing the protest from the Gods, Brahma collected sacrificial objects and proceeded to perform a grand sacrifice with the foremost of the Rishis and Devas at the side of Himalaya.
During the course of the sacrifice, a dreadful creature sprang from the midst of the sacrificial fires scattering flames all around. It was as though a moon had arisen in the midst of the stars. He was colored like a deep-blue lotus. His teeth were sharp and terrible, stomach lean and skinny and stature very tall and slim. He was of exceeding energy and power. Simultaneously, the earth started shaking, there were turmoils in the oceans, the forceful winds started howling all around, the trees started falling and being torn apart, and the meteors started blazing through the skies!
Brahma declared:
The 'being' I have conceived is Asi. It shall effect the destruction of the enemies of the gods and restore the Dharma (righteousness).
Upon this, the creature assumed the form of a blazing, sharp-edged sword, glowing like the flames at the end of the Kalpa (aeon).
[edit]Succession of wielders of asi

Brahma gave that sword to Rudra with the bull-banner and asked him to put down the sinners and evil-doers and restore the Dharma.
Rudra, assuming his terrible form, took up the sword and started the war against the Danavas, thus tearing, piercing, lopping off, chopping off and smashing and mutilating these enemies of the Devas and the Praja.
The earth became miry with flesh and blood of Daityas (or giants) and looked like a fair-complexioned maid intoxicated with alcohol and attired in crimson robes in a full abandon.
Having extirpated the entire community of Daityas and after restoring Dharma, Rudra cast off his awful form and assumed the usual benign shape Shiva.
Rudra gave the sword, dyed with the blood of the Daityas, to Vishnu. He gave it to the Indra. Deva Indra, then gave it to other Devas.
The Devas then presented the mighty sword to Manu, advising him to wield it with utmost care, only resorting to it for punishing the transgressors of the Dharma. Mutilations and death punishments shall never be inflicted for small transgressions.
Manu used this Daevi Khadga or Divine Sword wisely and then passed it his to son Kshupa. From Kshupa it passed to Manu's other son Ikshvaku. From him it went to Pururavas, born of Ila. From him it went to Ayu. From him it passed to Nahusha. From him it passed to Yayati. From him it passed to Puru. From him it was wrested by Amurtarayas of the clan of the Amavasus. From him it went to Bhumishaya. From him it went to Bharata Daushyanti. From him it went to Ailavila, the upholder of Dharma. From him it went to Kuvalashva, the Aikshvakava of Kosala.
From king Kuvalashva, the sword was wrested by Kamboja i.e. the king of Kambojas.
From Kamboja, the Khadga passed on to Muchukunda (a Yavana king). From Muchukunda it went to Maruta.
From Maruta it went to Raivata. From him to Yuvanashva. From him it went to Raghu, the great conqueror. From him it went to Harinashva. From him it went to Shunaka. From him it went to Ushinara. From him it went to the Bhojas and Yadavas. From the Yadus it went to Shivi. From him it went to the Partardanas of Kashi. Then it was taken by Vishvamitras of the Ashtaka lineage. Then it was taken by the Panchala Prishadashva. From him it went to the Brahmins of the Bharadvaja lineage. The last of that lineage was Drona. He gave to Kripacharya. He in turn gave it to the Pandavas.
Krittika is the Nakshatra of the sword, Rohini the gotra, Agni the deity, and Rudra the Maharshi. It is truly the upholder of Dharma.
It is the foremost of the striking weapons of the son of Madravati.

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## para-site

Wow never knew there are sooo many astra-shastra.......sab to ek jaise hi lagte the hehe


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## divya

DIVYA STRA ​​

Divyastras were astras used accompanied by chanting of the right sacred mantra. It is only when the correct mantra was chanted and used correctly... did the Divyastras penetrate the goal with alarming clarity. The power of divyastras was not available to the common man... only the sages, saints and Acharyas and their favored pupils were able to handle them properly.

No Divyastras could be used without an accompanying mantra that was essential to invoke the mighty power of the cosmic system... as is the case karate, judo and different martial arts. The power exercised by Bruce Lee has no precedence... it could not be matched by any Human being of his era... his actions were even faster than the instruments used to capture his actions. Many a times the camera itself failed to record his fast actions.

He himself was capable of almost handling a full army single-handed. It is not merely the display of physical powers but when the physical powers are combined with the chanting of the mantras... the martial art itself becomes sacred. The prime reason why the martial arts are meant for security of the self and never to be used against a weaker opponent or for any commercial purpose!

The same technique was used when Divyastras were used in the earlier times... as was the mental capability of the user... so was the instrument available to him. Lord Krishna alone was capable of handling the Sudarshan chakra and none else had the power in his times to use the Sudarshan chakra. Similar was the case with Brahmastra which was also limited to a very few individuals.

In times of Lord Krishna the science had not evolved as it is today. In present times, the commander of the forces simply gives an order and the requisite instrument is fired by a very junior army man... who is trained for that purpose. For the use of a nuclear bomb... we do not expect the commander himself to carry the bomb and use it against the opponent. Today we have means to fire the instrument from a distance and experts are available for every type of job.


In the earlier times it was a culmination of the mental powers along with the art of Spiritual warfare that decided who would be the winner in the end. The invocation of mental powers is very limited today... In present times also it is not the instruments alone which play a part but it is the handling of the instrument which plays the vital role.

The same aircraft when driven by an American pilot does not give the same results as when it is driven by an Indian pilot... the Indian pilots are considered far superior than their American counterparts and it is the handling of the aircraft which makes it a more superior weapon when in the hands of an Indian pilot.


Similar was the case in times of Lord Krishna... the same Brahmastra when used by a person with lesser knowledge did not give the desired results. Invocation of the mental powers simply means that our atman the soul within becomes the guiding factor in all operations. When rightly used... these mental powers gives us so much focus that the results are disastrous for the opposing army.


It is like getting guided by a laser beam! Divyastra do not necessarily mean they were more powerful than the guided instruments of today but comparing with almost negligible presence of science in those days... these Divyastras meant doom for the opponents. Mental powers as shown in the Star Trek serial persisted in times of Lord Krishna. It was not the mere use of hypnotic powers but the actual use of mental powers that gave Lord Krishna, Arjuna, Bhishma pitamah and various other combatants the power they exercised in the battle.

It is but difficult for me to describe the mental powers used by the Spiritual masters of the yester era... but mental powers when rightly used can cause havoc! There is nothing more powerful in the universe than the mental powers... even the atomic bombs and the hydrogen bombs carry no meaning compared to the mental divine powers possessed by the likes of Lord Krishna (considered an Avatar).

I have experienced some of these mental powers soon after realizing God but to express them in words is extremely difficult... I can vouch for these powers for I know their capability! Sudarshan chakra was never used by Lord Krishna as and when he liked it... it was not meant to be... Sudarshan chakra could only be used when the pot of sin of any individual was full to the brim... one had to have zero Punya Karma in his balance to be struck down by a Sudarshan chakra! Even Lord Krishna could not have done otherwise!


The battle of Mahabharata was primarily fought with arrows and swords... it was only a few Spiritual masters of the era who were competent enough to use Divyastras.

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## divya

para-site said:


> Wow never knew there are sooo many astra-shastra.......sab to ek jaise hi lagte the hehe



Nopes there is complete description of each and every weapon their usage and their imapct in hinduism. There is everything documented apart from the methods for invoking the weapon which was the mantra which formed the frequencies to give the desired effect.

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## divya

Does anyone know that there are evidences of radioactivity in the area of kurukshetra of India where war of Mahabharata was fought. There are still traces of radioactivity in that region....


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## xenon

divya said:


> Does anyone know that there are evidences of radioactivity in the area of kurukshetra of India where war of Mahabharata was fought. There are still traces of radioactivity in that region....



Maaf karo .Keep mythology where it belongs.

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## metro

divya said:


> Does anyone know that there are evidences of radioactivity in the area of kurukshetra of India where war of Mahabharata was fought. There are still traces of radioactivity in that region....



yes. its been proven scientifically.


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## divya

*Vimanas*


A vimana is a mythological flying machine, described in the ancient mythology of India. References to these flying machines are commonplace in ancient Indian texts, even describing their use in warfare. As well as being able to fly within Earth's atmosphere, vimanas were also said to be able to travel into space and travel submerged underwater.

Descriptions in the Vedas and later Indian literature detail vimanas of various shapes and sizes:

In the Vedas: the Sun and Indra and several other Vedic deities are transported by flying wheeled chariots pulled by animals, usually horses (but the Vedic god Pusan's chariot is pulled by goats).
The "agnihotra-vimana" with two engines. (Agni means fire in Sanskrit.)
The "gaja-vimana" with more engines. (Gaja means elephant in Sanskrit.)
Other types named after the kingfisher, ibis, and other animals.
The word comes from Sanskrit and seems to be vi-mana = 'apart' or 'having been measured". The word also means a part of a Hindu temple. The meaning of the word likely changed in this sequence:
An area of land measured out and set apart to be used for sacred purposes.
Temple
A god's palace
In the Ramayana: the demon-lord Ravana's flying palace called Pushpaka.
In later Indian writings: other flying vehicles, and sometimes as a poetic word for ordinary ground vehicles.
In some modern Indian languages, the word vimana means ordinary real aircraft.

The Buddhist book Vimanavatthu (Pali for "Vimana Stories") uses the word "vimana" with a different meaning: "a small piece of text used as the inspiration for a Buddhist sermon".

UFO Lore
Some modern UFO enthusiasts have pointed to the Vimana as evidence for advanced technological civilizations in the distant past, or as support for the ancient astronaut theory. Others have linked the flying machines to the legend of the Nine Unknown Men.

Alexander the Great purportedly gave a description of "dozens of silver disk-like objects" entering and leaving the Jaxartes River in 337 BC. Alexander, so the story goes, then became obsessed with the craft and spent many hours in a primitive diving bell searching for them. (Source: History Channel "Unidentified Submarine Objects")

Mythological Descriptions
Sanskrit texts are filled with references to gods who fought battles in the sky using Vimanas equipped with weapons as deadly as any we can deploy in these more enlightened times.

In the Ramayana there is a passage in the Ramayana which reads:

"The Pushpaka chariot that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravana; that aerial and excellent car going everywhere at will .... that car resembling a bright cloud in the sky ... and the King [Rama] got in, and the excellent car at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere.'"
"Pushpaka" is Sanskrit for "flowery". It is the first flying vimana mentioned in Hindu mythology (as distinct from gods' flying horse-drawn chariots). It is also called Pushpaka Vimana.

The special characteristic of this vehicle is, "What ever may be the number of people sitting in it, always there will be one more seat vacant i.e., If N people sit, There will be (N+1) seats". It was basically a vehicle that could soar the skies for long distances. It shows that even in ancient times, people were curious about flight and might have tried to design flying vehicles.

Pushpaka was originally made by Maya for Kubera, the God of wealth, but was later stolen, along with Lanka, by his half-brother, the demon king Ravana.

The core epic of the Mahabharata mentions no vimanas, but vimanas often occur in the large amount of matter which was added to the Mahabharata corpus later. One example is that the Asura Maya had a Vimana measuring twelve cubits in circumference, with four strong wheels.

The Mahabharata is a veritable gold mine of information relating to conflicts between gods who are said to have settled their differences apparently using weapons as lethal as those we have now. Apart from 'blazing missiles', the poem records the use of other deadly weapons. 'Indra's Dart' (Indravajra) operated via a circular 'reflector'. When switched on, it produced a 'shaft of light' which, when focused on any target, immediately 'consumed it with its power'.

In one exchange, the hero, Krishna, is pursuing his enemy, Salva, in the sky, when Salva's Vimana, the Saubha, is made invisible in some way. Undeterred, Krishna immediately fires off a special weapon: "I quickly laid on an arrow, which killed by seeking out sound". Many other terrible weapons are described, quite matter-of-factly, in the Mahabharata, but the most fearsome of all is the one used against the Vrishis. The narrative records:

"Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendour. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas."
It is important to note, that these kinds of records are not isolated. They can be cross-correlated with similar reports in other ancient civilizations. The after-affects of this Iron Thunderbolt have an ominously recognizable ring. Apparently, those killed by it were said to be so burnt that their corpses were unidentifiable. The survivors fared little better, as it caused their hair and nails to fall out.

Perhaps the most disturbing and challenging, information about these allegedly mythical Vimanas in the ancient records is that there are some matter-of-fact records, describing how to build one. In their way, the instructions are quite precise.

The Mahabharata also tells of the awesome destructiveness of the war: "... (the weapon was) a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendour... An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.... the corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white.... after a few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... to escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment..." Some say that the Mahabharata is describing an atomic war. References like this one are not isolated; but battles, using a fantastic array of weapons and aerial vehicles are common in all the epic Indian books. One even describes a Vimana-Vailix battle on the Moon! The above section very accurately describes what an atomic explosion would look like and the effects of the radioactivity on the population. Jumping into water is the only respite.

In the Sanskrit Samarangana Sutradhara (Literally, "controller of the battlefield"), it is written:

"Strong and durable must the body of the Vimana be made, like a great flying bird of light material. Inside one must put the mercury engine with its iron heating apparatus underneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky. The movements of the Vimana are such that it can vertically ascend, vertically descend, move slanting forwards and backwards. With the help of the machines human beings can fly in the air and heavenly beings can come down to earth."
In Mesopotamian sources -- The Hakatha (Laws of the Babylonians) states quite unambiguously:

"The privilege of operating a flying machine is great. The knowledge of flight is among the most ancient of our inheritances. A gift from 'those from upon high'. We received it from them as a means of saving many lives."
More fantastic still is the information given in the ancient Chaldean work, The Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details on building a flying machine. It contains words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles, etc.

Archaeological Claims
Some say that when the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archaeologists in the last century, they found skeletons lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Ancient cities whose brick and stonewalls have been vitrified, that is, fused together, can be found in India, Ireland, Scotland, France, Turkey and other places. Some say that there is no logical explanation for the vitrification of stone forts and cities, except from an atomic blast; but others say that vitrified forts arose by an enemy setting fire to a fortification composed of a mixture of big timbers and stones.

























Artists perception how the vimana would have looked..

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## Dest&#305;ny

Thor's Hammer

In Norse polytheism, Thor (from Old Norse &#222;&#243;rr) is a hammer-wielding god associated with thunder, lightning, storms, oak trees, strength, destruction, fertility, healing, and the protection of mankind. The cognate deity in wider Germanic mythology was known in Old English as &#222;unor and in Old High German Donar (runic &#254;onar &#5798;&#5855;&#5822;&#5800;&#5809, stemming from a Common Germanic *&#222;unraz (meaning "thunder").

Ultimately stemming from Proto-Indo-European religion, Thor is a prominently mentioned god throughout the recorded history of the Germanic peoples, from the Roman occupation of regions of Germania, to the tribal expansions of the Migration Period, to his high popularity during the Viking Age, when, in the face of the process of the Christianization of Scandinavia, emblems of his hammer, Mj&#246;llnir, were worn in defiance and Norse pagan personal names containing the name of the god bear witness to his popularity. Into the modern period, Thor continued to be acknowledged in rural folklore throughout Germanic regions. Thor is frequently referenced in place names, the day of the week Thursday ("Thor's day") bears his name, and names stemming from the pagan period containing his own continue to be used today.

In Norse mythology, largely recorded in Iceland from traditional material stemming from Scandinavia, numerous tales and information about Thor is provided. In these sources, Thor bears at least fourteen names, is the husband of the golden-haired goddess Sif, is the lover of the j&#246;tunn J&#225;rnsaxa, and is described as fierce-eyed, red-haired and red-bearded. With Sif, Thor fathered the goddess (and possible valkyrie) &#222;r&#250;&#240;r; with J&#225;rnsaxa, he fathered Magni; with a mother whose name is not recorded, he fathered M&#243;&#240;i, and he is the stepfather of the god Ullr. The same sources list Thor as the son of the god Odin and the personified earth, Fj&#246;rgyn, and by way of Odin, Thor has numerous brothers. Thor has two servants, &#222;j&#225;lfi and R&#246;skva, rides in a chariot led by two goats, Tanngrisnir and Tanngnj&#243;str (that he eats and resurrects), and is ascribed three dwellings (Bilskirnir, &#222;r&#250;&#240;heimr, and &#222;r&#250;&#240;vangr). Thor wields the mountain-crushing hammer, Mj&#246;llnir, wears the belt Megingj&#246;r&#240; and the iron gloves J&#225;rngreipr, and owns the staff Gr&#237;&#240;arv&#246;lr. Thor's exploits, including his relentless slaughter of his foes and fierce battles with the monstrous serpent J&#246;rmungandr&#8212;and their foretold mutual deaths during the events of Ragnar&#246;k&#8212;are recorded throughout sources for Norse mythology

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## divya

xenon said:


> Maaf karo .Keep mythology where it belongs.



Nopes it has been proven the presence of radioactivity but still they are searching for the reasons.....



*A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.
*
For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. *The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. *Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

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## metro

wooow.. divya, its a great thread.

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## Paan Singh

*Divya*stra is more dangerous,it changes its pic on daily bases.


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## divya

Prism said:


> *Divya*stra is more dangerous,it changes its pic on daily bases.



And it can kill also


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## Paan Singh

divya said:


> And it can kill also



but this *divya*stra is not dangerous looking,although buty of this astra may kill anybody


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## divya

Prism said:


> but this *divya*stra is not dangerous looking,although buty of this astra may *kill anybody*



Primary objective complete

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## Paan Singh

divya said:


> Primary objective complete



u win

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## divya

Sudarshana Chakra​

The Sudarshana Chakra (Sanskrit: &#2360;&#2369;&#2342;&#2352;&#2381;&#2358;&#2344; &#2330;&#2325;&#2381;&#2352 is a pirouetting, disk-like super weapon with 108 serrated edges of Hindu God Vishnu. The Sudarshan Chakra is portrayed on right rear hand of the four hands of Vishnu, who also hold a Shankha (a conch shell) on right fore hand, a Gada (mace) on left rear hand, and a Padma (lotus) on left fore hand.
According to the Puranas, the use of Sudarshan Chakra is called for ultimate destruction of the enemy. The depiction of Sudarshan Chakra with Vishnu also means that Vishnu is the keeper-owner of the celestial bodies and heavens.


Within scripture

*The use Sudarshana Chakra is occasionally mentioned in Hindu texts of Rigveda, Yajurveda and Puranas, as an ultimate weapon to eliminate the enemy of law, order and preservation. *Such enemies are enumerated variously as rakshasas, asura, and vikrutatma. In one such instance, as scribed in the stanzas of the Mahabharat, Lord Shri Krishna, the avatar of Lord Vishnu, beheads Shishupala with the use of the Sudarshan Chakra, for his rapacious behaviour (committing 100 mistakes each worthy of death) at the Rajsuya yagna celebration of Emperor Yudhishthira. It was also used to cut mandrachal parvat for samudra manthan.
[edit]Origin of Sudarshana Chakra

According to one version, the Sudarshana chakra was made by the architect of gods, Vishvakarma.
Viswakarma's daughter Sanjana was married to Surya, the Sun God. Due to the Sun's blazing light and heat, she was unable to go near the Sun. She complained to her father about this. Viswakarma took the Sun and made him shine less so that his daughter would be able to hug the Sun. The left over Sun "dust" was collected by Viswakarma and he made three things out of it. The first one was the famous aerial vehicle Pushpaka Vimana, the second being the Trishula (Trident) of Lord Shiva, and the third was the Sudarshana Chakra of Lord Vishnu.
The chakra comprises 10 million spikes in two rows. One row of spikes moving in the opposite direction to give it a serrated edge.
It was also used to cut the Goddess Sati , consort of Lord Shiva into 51 pieces after she gave up her life in humiliation. It is said that Shiva, in grief, carried around her lifeless body and was inconsolable. The 51 parts of the Goddess' body were then tossed about in different parts of Bharatvarsha and came to be known as Shakti Peeths.
[edit]Presented to Krishna by Agni

Agni-deva (Fire God) had been suffering from a severe stomach ailment. As a remedy, Lord Brahma advised him to consume the herb-rich Khandava forest. However, Takshaka the Serpent-king and a close friend of Lord Indra , was residing there. Whenever Agni tried to consume the forest, Lord Indra&#8217;s thundershowers quickly extinguished the fire.
Once, Krishna and Arjuna arrived at this place. Appearing as a Brahmana, Agni-deva sought their help and they agreed.To fight Indra and His divine army , Agni-deva presented the divine weapon *Sudarshana Chakra* to Krishna and Gandheevam to Arjuna .
[edit]Other Names

In the Tamil Language, the Sudarshana Chakra is also known as 'Chakkrath Azhwar' (translated as Ring/Circlet of God).
The Chakri Dynasty, the current ruling house of Thailand is named after the weapon.

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## divya

*Bhramadanda The Deadliest of all weapons ​*
Bhramadanda which shares its name with the stick used by the sages was the stick used by bhrama. As a defensive weapon it had the power to stop all other weapons but when used on offensive purpose it would destroy the entire universe. There are no evidences of its usage in any of the scriptures though Drona in Mahabharata had knowledge to use it but he never used it.

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## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

hey nice work divya.
try and add something about kavach kundal of KARNA.


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## para-site

Very interesting.......keep them coming......


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## divya

PRACTICAL PATRIOT said:


> hey nice work divya.
> try and add something about kavach kundal of KARNA.



You mean the same shown in this movie

YouTube - Naksha Trailer 



The kavacha of karna was present when he was born being the son of the surya. The armour made him invincible and impossible to kill. So it was later on when Krishna took it from him with cheating he was killed. After his death Surya took the kavach and kundal back with him fearing the demons will get hold of it.

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## Nalwa

divya said:


> Does anyone know that there are evidences of radioactivity in the area of kurukshetra of India where war of Mahabharata was fought. There are still traces of radioactivity in that region....



I was afraid the thread was going to head into this direction. 

The radioactivity could have been due to a lot of sources. And if well surveyed I am sure a lot of regions in India would come up as high in radioactivity. Not sure if ancient battles would explain it all.


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## divya

Nalwa said:


> I was afraid the thread was going to head into this direction.
> 
> The radioactivity could have been due to a lot of sources. And if well surveyed I am sure a lot of regions in India would come up as high in radioactivity. Not sure if ancient battles would explain it all.



Agreed but what i said was just one of the speculation. Over and all we do not have the creditable evidence for the events in that period.


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## divya

*Trishula*​







The trishula symbolism is polyvalent and rich. The trishula is wielded by the Hindu God Shiva and is said to have been used to sever the original head of Ganesha. The three points have various meanings and significance, and, common to Hindu religion, have many stories behind them. They are commonly said to represent various trinitiescreation, maintenance and destruction, past, present and future, the three guna. When looked upon as a weapon of Shiva, the trishula is said to destroy the three worlds: the physical world, the world of the forefathers (representing culture drawn from the past) and the world of the mind (representing the processes of sensing and acting). The three worlds are supposed to be destroyed by Shiva into a single non-dual plane of existence, that is bliss alone.
In the human body, the trishula also represents the place where the three main nadis, or energy channels (ida, pingala and shushmana) meet at the brow. Shushmana, the central one, continues upward to the 7th chakra, or energy center, while the other two end at the brow, there the 6th chakra is located. The trisula's central point represents Shushmana, and that is why it is longer than the other two, representing ida and pingala.

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## PRACTICAL PATRIOT

divya said:


> You mean the same shown in this movie
> 
> YouTube - Naksha Trailer
> 
> 
> 
> The kavacha of karna was present when he was born being the son of the surya. The armour made him invincible and impossible to kill. So it was later on when Krishna took it from him with cheating he was killed. After his death Surya took the kavach and kundal back with him fearing the demons will get hold of it.



yeah i was talking about same but i thought you might be having more details. anyway great work.


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## divya

*Arrow of Brahma​*

Hindu Mythology

In Hindu mythology, the demi-god Rama (Ramachandra) faced the demon king of Sri-Lanka, Ravana. Rama shot arrows and knocked off each of Ravana's ten heads, but new ones grew immediately. The new heads doubled Ravana's strength. Finally, Rama fired the arrow of Brahma that had been imparted to him by Agastya, a sage and heavenly historian, while Rama, Sita, and Lakshmana were exiled in Dandaka Forest. The arrow of Brahma burst Ravana's chest, passed through his body, and returned to Rama's quiver. Ravana was destroyed and Rama was able to return home in victory.
[edit]Appearance
The arrow of Brahma that Rama shot had feathers of winds. The points were sun and flames. The shaft was Mount Meru, the hub of the universe and where Brahma lived.
[edit]Yaktovil

The yaktovil is a lengthy, complex ritual that prevents malevolent, supernatural beings from overpowering patients. The ritual brings the patients into the protective manifold of the Buddha. The ritual is performed by Theravada Buddhists.
[edit]Yakeduras
Yakeduras means "ones who know the art of offering". They are specialists who take control over patient diagnosis and performance of the yaktovil.
[edit]Ritual
During the ritual, offering baskets for several yakas, or nature divinities, are placed on a bench. One of the baskets is devoted to Suniyam. His basket contains, among other things, a sacrificial chicken and an "arrow" of Brahma. The "arrow" in this ritual is a straight branch with one end in the shape of an arrowhead. During the ceremony, it is used to help command and control certain supernaturals. At one point in the ceremony, a person assisting will be "possessed" by the spirit of Suniyam. He will take the sacrificial chicken and stomp around the patient. The yakeduras will use the "arrow" to force his compliance in leaving the patient alone.

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## divya

PRACTICAL PATRIOT said:


> yeah i was talking about same but i thought you might be having more details. anyway great work.



Oh well there are no more details about it. It was just a armour which was made by surya from his exclusive sun particles or something like that. I dont remember the exact name. He had it all the time before it was taken away by Krishna. There are no more details about them


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## divya

*Shiva Dhanush​*


Shiva Dhanush (Sanskrit: &#2358;&#2367;&#2357; &#2343;&#2344;&#2369;&#2358 in Hindu mythology, was the divine bow of Lord Shiva gifted to King Janaka by Sage Parashurama for safe-keeping while the sage performed penances. It was gifted to Parashurama by Shiva for being a great disciple.
In earlier part of her life, Sita while playing with her sisters had unknowingly moved the table over which the "Shiva Dhanush" had been placed; which was something no one in the palace could do. This incident was however observed by King Janaka and he decided to make this incident as the backdrop for swayamvar.
Later, Janaka had announced that whoever wanted to marry Sita had to do so only after lifting (which was itself a difficult job) the bow from its place and stringing it. The bow was broken by Lord Rama when he attempted to string the bow, during the swayamvar of King Janaka's daughter, Sita, whereby he won the hand of Sita in marriage. After the swayamvar, while Rama, Sita and Lakshmana were on their way to Ayodhya, Parashurama confronted and challenged Rama for breaking the bow.Dasharata told Parashurama the incident which had happened in the palace.But Parashurama wouldn't control and brought Lord Vishnu's bow. He then asked Rama to string the bow and fight a duel with him.Rama respectfully bows to Parashurama, and within a twinkling of an eyelid snatches the bow of Vishnu, strings it, places an arrow and points it straight at the challenger's heart. Rama asks Parashurama what he will give as a target to the arrow in return for his life? At this point, Parashurama feels himself devoid of the tremendous mystical energy he possessed for so long. He realizes that Rama is Vishnu incarnate, his successor and definitely his superior. He accepts Rama's superiority, devotes his tapasya to him, pays homage to Rama and promises to return to his hermitage and leave the world of men.
Rama then shoots the arrow up into the sky with Vishnu's bow, performing a feat true to his supreme, divine nature with his natural weapon. His overpowering of Parashurama and using the supreme weapon with incredible ease and perfection dazzle the spectators and his relatives, but no one save Parashurama and Vasishta associate this with his true identity. It is said that the Rama's arrow is still flying across space, across time and across all of the universe. The day it will return to earth, it is said, it will bring the end of the world. Others say that the flying arrow destroys all evil on earth to uphold dharma and righteousness.

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## divya

*vel​*

The Vel (Tamil: &#2997;&#3015;&#2994;&#3021 is the divine javelin/spear of the Hindu deity Murugan. It also refers to elephant in archaic and poetic usage. This seems to be because the frontal profile of an elephant (with the long trunk) is similar to a spear.
The spear used by ancient Tamils in warfare is also commonly known by this n


Vel in Hindu Mythology

In the Hindu mythology, Goddess Parvati presented the Vel to her son Murugan as an emobodiment of her Shakthi (Power and Energy) to vanquish the evil asura Soorapadman.
According to the Skanda Purana and its Tamil version, Kanda Puranam, in the war between Murugan and Soorapadman, Murugan used his Vel to defeat all the evil forces of Soorapadman. When a complete defeat for Soorapadman was imminent, the asura transformed himself in to a huge mango tree to evade detection by Murugan. Murugan, not falling for the deception, hurled his Vel and split the mango tree in to two halves, one becoming a rooster and the other a peacock. Murugan, henceforth, had the peacock as his Vahanam and the rooster became the emblem on his battle flag. The Vel became the symbol of valour, and of the triumph of good over evil.
[edit]Vel as a Symbol of Worship

The Vel, as a symbol of Murugan's divinity, is an object of worship in some of the temples of Murugan. The annual Thaipusam festival celebrates the occasion when Murugan received the divine Vel from his mother. During this festival, some of the devotees pierce their skin, tongue or cheeks with vel skewers while they undertake a procession towards the Murugan temple. The Vel is also associated with Vishnu. In a number of Vaishnavaite temples in Tamil Nadu the presiding deity holds a Vel.[citation needed]
[edit]Vel in Tamil Culture

The Vel was extensively used by the Tamils as a weapon.[citation needed] "Vetrivel, Veeravel" ("Victorious Vel, Courageous Vel") was a commonly used battle cry. It was common for young boys to wear impressions of the Vel around the neck. Vel or Velu, with a prefix like Shakthi, or Raja, is also a popular first name for Tamil Hindu males.[citation needed]

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## divya

*Parashu​*

The parashu (Sanskrit: para&#7779;u) is an Indian battle-axe. It is generally wielded with two hands but could also be used with only one.
[edit]Construction

The parashu could be double edged or bladed or single-bladed with a spike on the non cutting edge. It usually measures between 3  5 feet though some are as long as 7 feet. The parashu is usually made of iron or wootz steel. The cutting edge is broader than the edge which is attached to the haft. The haft is often tied with a leather sheet to provide a good grip.
[edit]In Hinduism

The parashu was the choice weapon of Parashurama, sixth avatara of Vishnu, whose name means "Rama with the axe". He was one of the few Brahmin guru who were also masters of hand to hand combat. Parashurama was considered on par with Dronacharya, the guru who instructed the Pandavas in the epic of the Mahabharata. Karna, half brother of Pandava took instruction in weaponry from Parashurama, a disciple of lord Shiva, and was known to have terrible temper having lost his father to the evil Asura. Parashurama in his anger got rid of the all the Earth's kshatriya (warrior class) seven times over. Parashurama's weapon had supernatural powers. It had four cutting edges, one on each end of the blade head and one on each end of the shaft.
The parashu was known as the most lethal close combat weapons of the epics. It is also one of the weapons of the goddess Durga and is still depicted on her idols throughout India.

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## divya

ok guys i need some contribution from your side. I just remembered these many names of the weapons. Rest i cannot recall but there is a wide collection of weapon and weapon systems.


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## ajay

India has always been famed for its ancient intelligence and very advanced culture which was developed when Darwin&#8217;s ape were wandering. Now a days Indian defence research scientist and engineer are working for a top secret projects. According to some sources in Pune, well known for defence programs, scientists are tight lipped and say they can&#8217;t speak till 2012. What is going to happen in 2012 no one knows but they keep saying before any question is asked &#8220;I know nothing&#8221;. If you keep your ears on these whispers you will realize India has tested something no one wants to talk about. It is break through in conventional physics and traditional mechanical and aeronautical engineering. Still the question comes back why shoul all stay quiet till 2012? Where did antigravity technology come from? Strange activities are continuously being observed in Indian side of Himalayas. According to sources it was an planned diversion, it came from indigenous researcher that were started just after the nuclear test in Pokharan and based on some Ancient Indian texts. India must research forgotten technologies that were part of Indian History Ramayan and the Mahabharata. When quizzed further Indira Gandhi mentioned that like ancient days we should be able to fly effortlessly. India will most likely announce the discovery as part of peaceful innovation series. But obviously military applications can make conventional missiles and aircrafts. And if whispers are right, India may be changing the world by 2012 forever but why the magic year 2012? Why every thing is kept secret till then?

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## Prometheus




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## ajay

YouTube - Vedic Stealth Bomber!


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## Nalwa

ajay said:


> India has always been famed for its ancient intelligence and very advanced culture which was developed when Darwins ape were wandering. Now a days Indian defence research scientist and engineer are working for a top secret projects. According to some sources in Pune, well known for defence programs, scientists are tight lipped and say they cant speak till 2012. What is going to happen in 2012 no one knows but they keep saying before any question is asked I know nothing. If you keep your ears on these whispers you will realize India has tested something no one wants to talk about. It is break through in conventional physics and traditional mechanical and aeronautical engineering. Still the question comes back why shoul all stay quiet till 2012? Where did antigravity technology come from? Strange activities are continuously being observed in Indian side of Himalayas. According to sources it was an planned diversion, it came from indigenous researcher that were started just after the nuclear test in Pokharan and based on some Ancient Indian texts. India must research forgotten technologies that were part of Indian History Ramayan and the Mahabharata. When quizzed further Indira Gandhi mentioned that like ancient days we should be able to fly effortlessly. India will most likely announce the discovery as part of peaceful innovation series. But obviously military applications can make conventional missiles and aircrafts. And if whispers are right, India may be changing the world by 2012 forever but why the magic year 2012? Why every thing is kept secret till then?



Source? The article seems to be talking about Indira Gandhi and teh first nuclear test. It seems to be 30 years old. 

And lets keep our feet on the ground.


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## Prometheus

A trident (pronounced /&#712;tra&#618;d&#601;nt/), also called a leister or gig, is a three-pronged spear. It is used for spear fishing and was also a military weapon. Tridents are featured widely in mythical, historical and modern culture. The sea god Poseidon or Neptune is classically depicted bearing a trident.
Note that a trident is not a pitchfork. A pitchfork is an agricultural tool with two to six tines (also called prongs) which are shaped in such a way that they can be used to lift and pitch (throw) loose material.


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## divya

Nalwa said:


> Source? The article seems to be talking about Indira Gandhi and teh first nuclear test. It seems to be 30 years old.
> 
> And lets keep our feet on the ground.



Many researchers into the UFO enigma tend to overlook a very important fact. While it assumed that most flying saucers are of alien, or perhaps Governmental Military origin, another possible origin of UFOs is ancient India and Atlantis. What we know about ancient Indian flying vehicles comes from ancient Indian sources; written texts that have come down to us through the centuries.

There is no doubt that most of these texts are authentic; many are the well known ancient Indian Epics themselves, and there are literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into English yet from the old Sanskrit.

Indian Emperor Ashoka started a "Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men"-- great Indian scientists who were supposed to catalogue the many sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the advanced science catalogued by these men, pulled from ancient Indian sources, would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against, having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody battle. *The "Nine Unknown Men" wrote a total of nine books, presumably one each. Book number was "The Secrets of Gravitation!"
*
*This book, known to historians, but not actually seen by them dealt chiefly with "gravity control." It is presumably still around somewhere, kept in a secret library in India, Tibet or elsewhere (perhaps even in North America somewhere). One can certainly understand Ashoka's reasoning for wanting to keep such knowledge a secret, assuming it exists.
*
Ashoka was also aware of devastating wars using such advanced vehicles and other "futuristic weapons" that had destroyed the ancient Indian "Rama Empire" several thousand years before. Only a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some Sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the university said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships!

*Their method of propulsion, she said, was "anti-gravitational" and was based upon a system analogous to that of "laghima," the unknown power of the ego existing in man's physiological makeup, "a centrifugal force strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull." According to Hindu Yogis, it is this "laghima" which enables a person to levitate.
*
Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called "Astras" by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any planet, according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years old. The manuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of "antima"; "the cap of invisibility" and "garima"; "how to become as heavy as a mountain of lead."

Naturally, Indian scientists did not take the texts very seriously, but then became more positive about the value of them when the Chinese announced that they were including certain parts of the data for study in their space program! This was one of the first instances of a government admitting to be researching anti-gravity.

*The manuscripts did not say definitely that interplanetary travel was ever made but did mention, of all things, a planned trip to the Moon, though it is not clear whether this trip was actually carried out. However, one of the great Indian epics, the Ramayana, does have a highly detailed story in it of a trip to the moon in a Vimana (or "Astra"), and in fact details a battle on the moon with an "Asvin" (or Atlantean") airship. This is but a small bit of recent evidence of anti-gravity and aerospace technology used by Indians.
*
To really understand the technology, we must go much further back in time. *The so-called "Rama Empire" of Northern India and Pakistan developed at least fifteen thousand years ago on the Indian sub-continent and was a nation of many large, sophisticated cities, many of which are still to be found in the deserts of Pakistan, northern, and western India. Rama existed, apparently, parallel to the Atlantean civilization in the mid-Atlantic Ocean, and was ruled by "enlightened Priest-Kings" who governed the cities.*

The seven greatest capital cities of Rama were known in classical Hindu texts as "The Seven Rishi Cities." According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called "Vimanas." The ancient Indian epic describes a Vimana as a double-deck, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer. It flew with the "speed of the wind" and gave forth a "melodious sound." *There were at least four different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders ("cigar shaped airships"). The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say.
*
The ancient Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in existence, and some have even been translated into English. The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced landings, and even possible collisions with birds. In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India.* It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightning and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity."
*
*The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas.
*
This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher: Vymaanidashaastra Aeronautics by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R.Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation, located in Mysore. There seems to be no doubt that Vimanas were powered by some sort of "anti-gravity." Vimanas took off vertically, and were capable of hovering in the sky, like a modern helicopter or dirigible. Bharadvajy the Wise refers to no less than 70 authorities and 10 experts of air travel in antiquity.

These sources are now lost. Vimanas were kept in a Vimana Griha, a kind of hanger, and were sometimes said to be propelled by a yellowish-white liquid, and sometimes by some sort of mercury compound, though writers seem confused in this matter. It is most likely that the later writers on Vimanas, wrote as observers and from earlier texts, and were understandably confused on the principle of their propulsion. The "yellowish-white liquid" sounds suspiciously like gasoline, and perhaps Vimanas had a number of different propulsion sources, including combustion engines and even "pulse-jet" engines.

It is interesting to note, that the Nazis developed the first practical pulse- jet engines for their V-8 rocket "buzz bombs." Hitler and the Nazi staff were exceptionally interested in ancient India and Tibet and sent expeditions to both these places yearly, starting in the 30's, in order to gather esoteric evidence that they did so, and perhaps it was from these people that the Nazis gained some of their scientific information!

According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana, one Vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down, backwards and forwards as the pilot desired. In another Indian source, the Samar, Vimanas were "iron machines, well-knit and smooth, with a charge of mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame." Another work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system.

Curiously, Soviet scientists have discovered what they call "age-old instruments used in navigating cosmic vehicles" in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The "devices" are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone with a drop of mercury inside. It is evident that ancient Indians flew around in these vehicles, all over Asia, to Atlantis presumably; and even, apparently, to South America. Writing found at Mohenjodaro in Pakistan (presumed to be one of the "Seven Rishi Cities of the Rama Empire") and still undeciphered, has also been found in one other place in the world.





Vimanas, Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks


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## ajay

Nalwa said:


> Source? The article seems to be talking about Indira Gandhi and teh first nuclear test. It seems to be 30 years old.
> 
> And lets keep our feet on the ground.





Im not taking this serious 

IndiaDaily - A secret project in Indias Defense Research Organization that can change the world as we know it  anti-gravity lifters tested in Himalayas?


World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines


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## ajay

World's hottest chilli to become India's secret weapon against terrorism - Telegraph


modern day twist


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## Nalwa

divya said:


> Many researchers into the UFO enigma tend to overlook a very important fact. While it assumed that most flying saucers are of alien, or perhaps Governmental Military origin, another possible origin of UFOs is ancient India and Atlantis. What we know about ancient Indian flying vehicles comes from ancient Indian sources; written texts that have come down to us through the centuries.
> 
> There is no doubt that most of these texts are authentic; many are the well known ancient Indian Epics themselves, and there are literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into English yet from the old Sanskrit.
> 
> Indian Emperor Ashoka started a "Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men"-- great Indian scientists who were supposed to catalogue the many sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the advanced science catalogued by these men, pulled from ancient Indian sources, would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against, having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody battle. The "Nine Unknown Men" wrote a total of nine books, presumably one each. Book number was "The Secrets of Gravitation!"
> 
> This book, known to historians, but not actually seen by them dealt chiefly with "gravity control." It is presumably still around somewhere, kept in a secret library in India, Tibet or elsewhere (perhaps even in North America somewhere). One can certainly understand Ashoka's reasoning for wanting to keep such knowledge a secret, assuming it exists.
> 
> Ashoka was also aware of devastating wars using such advanced vehicles and other "futuristic weapons" that had destroyed the ancient Indian "Rama Empire" several thousand years before. Only a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some Sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the university said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships!
> 
> Their method of propulsion, she said, was "anti-gravitational" and was based upon a system analogous to that of "laghima," the unknown power of the ego existing in man's physiological makeup, "a centrifugal force strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull." According to Hindu Yogis, it is this "laghima" which enables a person to levitate.
> 
> Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called "Astras" by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any planet, according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years old. The manuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of "antima"; "the cap of invisibility" and "garima"; "how to become as heavy as a mountain of lead."
> 
> Naturally, Indian scientists did not take the texts very seriously, but then became more positive about the value of them when the Chinese announced that they were including certain parts of the data for study in their space program! This was one of the first instances of a government admitting to be researching anti-gravity.
> 
> The manuscripts did not say definitely that interplanetary travel was ever made but did mention, of all things, a planned trip to the Moon, though it is not clear whether this trip was actually carried out. However, one of the great Indian epics, the Ramayana, does have a highly detailed story in it of a trip to the moon in a Vimana (or "Astra"), and in fact details a battle on the moon with an "Asvin" (or Atlantean") airship. This is but a small bit of recent evidence of anti-gravity and aerospace technology used by Indians.
> 
> To really understand the technology, we must go much further back in time. The so-called "Rama Empire" of Northern India and Pakistan developed at least fifteen thousand years ago on the Indian sub-continent and was a nation of many large, sophisticated cities, many of which are still to be found in the deserts of Pakistan, northern, and western India. Rama existed, apparently, parallel to the Atlantean civilization in the mid-Atlantic Ocean, and was ruled by "enlightened Priest-Kings" who governed the cities.
> 
> The seven greatest capital cities of Rama were known in classical Hindu texts as "The Seven Rishi Cities." According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called "Vimanas." The ancient Indian epic describes a Vimana as a double-deck, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer. It flew with the "speed of the wind" and gave forth a "melodious sound." There were at least four different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders ("cigar shaped airships"). The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say.
> 
> The ancient Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in existence, and some have even been translated into English. The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced landings, and even possible collisions with birds. In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightning and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity."
> 
> The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas.
> 
> This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher: Vymaanidashaastra Aeronautics by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R.Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation, located in Mysore. There seems to be no doubt that Vimanas were powered by some sort of "anti-gravity." Vimanas took off vertically, and were capable of hovering in the sky, like a modern helicopter or dirigible. Bharadvajy the Wise refers to no less than 70 authorities and 10 experts of air travel in antiquity.
> 
> These sources are now lost. Vimanas were kept in a Vimana Griha, a kind of hanger, and were sometimes said to be propelled by a yellowish-white liquid, and sometimes by some sort of mercury compound, though writers seem confused in this matter. It is most likely that the later writers on Vimanas, wrote as observers and from earlier texts, and were understandably confused on the principle of their propulsion. The "yellowish-white liquid" sounds suspiciously like gasoline, and perhaps Vimanas had a number of different propulsion sources, including combustion engines and even "pulse-jet" engines.
> 
> It is interesting to note, that the Nazis developed the first practical pulse- jet engines for their V-8 rocket "buzz bombs." Hitler and the Nazi staff were exceptionally interested in ancient India and Tibet and sent expeditions to both these places yearly, starting in the 30's, in order to gather esoteric evidence that they did so, and perhaps it was from these people that the Nazis gained some of their scientific information!
> 
> According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana, one Vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down, backwards and forwards as the pilot desired. In another Indian source, the Samar, Vimanas were "iron machines, well-knit and smooth, with a charge of mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame." Another work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system.
> 
> Curiously, Soviet scientists have discovered what they call "age-old instruments used in navigating cosmic vehicles" in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The "devices" are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone with a drop of mercury inside. It is evident that ancient Indians flew around in these vehicles, all over Asia, to Atlantis presumably; and even, apparently, to South America. Writing found at Mohenjodaro in Pakistan (presumed to be one of the "Seven Rishi Cities of the Rama Empire") and still undeciphered, has also been found in one other place in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vimanas, Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks



The next thing you are going to say is that the Pushpak Viman was for real.


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## divya

Nalwa said:


> The next thing you are going to say is that the Pushpak Viman was for real.



Till we dont have the concrete evidence for it, it was not.... There are quite conflicting theories about it. But the day we are able to understand the ancient science. As i said previously there are many broken links in books so they are just speculation. Thats why i added the word Mthythology because it has still not been proved.


Try out history channel documentaries on ancient flying objects. There are quite intersting things in that. You will like it....


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## metro

Nalwa said:


> The next thing you are going to say is that the Pushpak Viman was for real.



what is ure problem ?
let the people enjoy and feel good about thier ancient beliefs.
why are u unnecessarily picking a fight here ?


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## ajay

Ancient Observatories | Locations and Observatories | Angkor Wat


The builders of Angkor Wat were not interested in creating a temple merely to honor their deities. They created in its very structure and orientation, a reminder of the greater cosmic order, reflected in both the passage of time, and in the changing rays of the sun at propitious times of the year.

Location:
Cambodia
Latitude 13&#176;25'48'' N longitude100&#176;54'00'' E

Alignments:
In 1976, University of Michigan researchers suggested that the architect of ancient Cambodia's Angkor Wat had encoded calendrical, historical and cosmological themes into his architectural plan for the temple. Published in the journal Science, the study demonstrated how Angkor Wat's architect had established solar alignments between the temple and a nearby mountaintop shrine that took place during the summer solstice. For example, standing at Pre Rup 6 kilometers away at winter solstice, one would see the setting sun over Angkor Wat. Standing near the southwestern corner in Angkor Thom the rising sun at summer equinox will be visible through, or over, the eastern gate. Six months late, the alignment has shifted to its northern point of sunrise at winter solstice.


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## divya

metro said:


> what is ure problem ?
> let the people enjoy and feel good about thier ancient beliefs.
> why are u unnecessarily picking a fight here ?



Chill mate!!!!!!!!!!!

We cannot be hypocrites. He has every right to ask for the authenticity. As i mentioned in my previous post that these are just speculations. we should be rational then being religious on the international forum.


Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ajay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlm5nQHocEM


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## Nalwa

metro said:


> what is ure problem ?
> let the people enjoy and feel good about thier ancient beliefs.
> why are u unnecessarily picking a fight here ?



Reveling in ancient beliefs is fine. But I find it rather hilarious to suggest that the contraptions and mythical weapons mentioned were for real and could have a bearing on our current defense research.

And just trying to initiate a discussion.

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## metro

Nalwa said:


> Reveling in ancient beliefs is fine. But I find it rather hilarious to suggest that the c*ontraptions and mythical weapons mentioned were for real* and could have a bearing on our current defense research.



does it make any difference ?
would it have any significance other then the feel good factor.
we are not going to cancel our defense projects to pursue these ancient mythological(?) weapons.
so just chill and enjoy the posts.


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## lionheart1

divya said:


> You mean the same shown in this movie
> 
> YouTube - Naksha Trailer
> 
> 
> 
> The kavacha of karna was present when he was born being the son of the surya. The armour made him invincible and impossible to kill. So it was later on when Krishna took it from him with cheating he was killed. After his death Surya took the kavach and kundal back with him fearing the demons will get hold of it.


he was not invincible, but no one can kill karna with kavacha, and kundala . it was not taken by krishna , it was taken by indra father of arjuna in return indra gaved shakthi astra for karnuna which could had killed any one but it can be used only once karuna used it to kill gatotgaj son of bhima.karuna and kurava army was defeated byMatsya-army under the leader ship of arjuna before kurkshethra war . 
conclusion is that no one can kill karuna with this kavacha abd kundala, but he could had been defeated , he cound had been captured .so he was not invisible

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## Nalwa

metro said:


> *does it make any difference ?*
> would it have any significance other then the feel good factor.
> we are not going to cancel our defense projects to pursue these ancient mythological(?) weapons.
> so just chill and enjoy the posts.



If that was a deciding factor, would we ever have any debate on this forum? Let me do my thing. You can chill and enjoy my posts.


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## LaBong

divya said:


> Till we dont have the concrete evidence for it, it was not.... There are quite conflicting theories about it. But the day we are able to understand the ancient science. As i said previously there are many broken links in books so they are just speculation. Thats why i added the word Mthythology because it has still not been proved.
> 
> 
> Try out history channel documentaries on ancient flying objects. There are quite intersting things in that. You will like it....



"You have no evidence that there is no teapot on the moon, so there is one" 

Appeal to Ignorance


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## metro

Nalwa said:


> If that was a deciding factor, would we ever have any debate on this forum? Let me do my thing. You can chill and enjoy my posts.



what is there to debate about it ?
the thread reads mythological weapons.
no piont in asking other members to give proofs for thier posts unless ure looking to debate over myths(?).

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## divya

lionheart1 said:


> he was not invincible, but no one can kill karna with kavacha, and kundala . it was not taken by krishna , it was taken by indra father of arjuna in return indra gaved shakthi astra for karnuna which could had killed any one but it can be used only once karuna used it to kill gatotgaj son of bhima.karuna and kurava army was defeated byMatsya-army under the leader ship of arjuna before kurkshethra war .
> conclusion is that no one can kill karuna with this kavacha abd kundala, but he could had been defeated , he cound had been captured .so he was not invisible



Yups it was indra not krishna who took that my mistake.


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## ajay

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendour of the Mighty One&#8230;I am become Death, the Shatterer of Worlds. 


*Oppenheimer, J.Robert, quoting the Bhagawad Gita*


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## divya

Voila here starts the use of these Divyastras and Bhramastras.....


Thank god those mantras got lost....


OK i am out of this thread...... you guys carry on.... 

And i am sorry that i created this thread did not intended that Indians here fight the crap out of each other......


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## Nalwa

metro said:


> what is there to debate about it ?
> the thread reads mythological weapons.
> no piont in asking other members to give proofs for thier posts unless ure looking to debate over myths(?).



I haven't asked for proofs for mythological weapons. Because none exist. Only when suggested that these could be recreated or the 'blueprints' used for current research. You can go back and read my posts.


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## metro

Nalwa said:


> I haven't asked for proofs for mythological weapons. Because none exist. Only when suggested that these could be recreated or the 'blueprints' used for current research. You can go back and read my posts.



ok u can carry on. i see no point to continue this discussion.


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## lionheart1

divya said:


> Primary objective complete



it every girls primary object , it not new .

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## ajtr

divya said:


> Does anyone know that there are evidences of radioactivity in the area of kurukshetra of India where war of Mahabharata was fought. There are still traces of radioactivity in that region....


There were three instances of use of divyastra in mahabharat...otherwise there was agreement between both warring parties regarding not using divyastra

1.arjun-karna duel 
2.karna-ghatotkacha duel(when karna used amogh shakti to kill him)
3.Arjun-ashwathama duel in the end of mahabarat war.

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## Alternative

divya said:


> Sudarshana Chakra​
> 
> The Sudarshana Chakra (Sanskrit: &#2360;&#2369;&#2342;&#2352;&#2381;&#2358;&#2344; &#2330;&#2325;&#2381;&#2352 is a pirouetting, disk-like super weapon with 108 serrated edges of Hindu God Vishnu. The Sudarshan Chakra is portrayed on right rear hand of the four hands of Vishnu, who also hold a Shankha (a conch shell) on right fore hand, a Gada (mace) on left rear hand, and a Padma (lotus) on left fore hand.
> According to the Puranas, the use of Sudarshan Chakra is called for ultimate destruction of the enemy. The depiction of Sudarshan Chakra with Vishnu also means that Vishnu is the keeper-owner of the celestial bodies and heavens.
> 
> 
> 
> Within scripture
> 
> *The use Sudarshana Chakra is occasionally mentioned in Hindu texts of Rigveda, Yajurveda and Puranas, as an ultimate weapon to eliminate the enemy of law, order and preservation. *Such enemies are enumerated variously as rakshasas, asura, and vikrutatma. In one such instance, as scribed in the stanzas of the Mahabharat, Lord Shri Krishna, the avatar of Lord Vishnu, beheads Shishupala with the use of the Sudarshan Chakra, for his rapacious behaviour (committing 100 mistakes each worthy of death) at the Rajsuya yagna celebration of Emperor Yudhishthira. It was also used to cut mandrachal parvat for samudra manthan.
> [edit]Origin of Sudarshana Chakra
> 
> According to one version, the Sudarshana chakra was made by the architect of gods, Vishvakarma.
> Viswakarma's daughter Sanjana was married to Surya, the Sun God. Due to the Sun's blazing light and heat, she was unable to go near the Sun. She complained to her father about this. Viswakarma took the Sun and made him shine less so that his daughter would be able to hug the Sun. The left over Sun "dust" was collected by Viswakarma and he made three things out of it. The first one was the famous aerial vehicle Pushpaka Vimana, the second being the Trishula (Trident) of Lord Shiva, and the third was the Sudarshana Chakra of Lord Vishnu.
> The chakra comprises 10 million spikes in two rows. One row of spikes moving in the opposite direction to give it a serrated edge.
> It was also used to cut the Goddess Sati , consort of Lord Shiva into 51 pieces after she gave up her life in humiliation. It is said that Shiva, in grief, carried around her lifeless body and was inconsolable. The 51 parts of the Goddess' body were then tossed about in different parts of Bharatvarsha and came to be known as Shakti Peeths.
> [edit]Presented to Krishna by Agni
> 
> Agni-deva (Fire God) had been suffering from a severe stomach ailment. As a remedy, Lord Brahma advised him to consume the herb-rich Khandava forest. However, Takshaka the Serpent-king and a close friend of Lord Indra , was residing there. Whenever Agni tried to consume the forest, Lord Indras thundershowers quickly extinguished the fire.
> Once, Krishna and Arjuna arrived at this place. Appearing as a Brahmana, Agni-deva sought their help and they agreed.To fight Indra and His divine army , Agni-deva presented the divine weapon *Sudarshana Chakra* to Krishna and Gandheevam to Arjuna .
> [edit]Other Names
> 
> In the Tamil Language, the Sudarshana Chakra is also known as 'Chakkrath Azhwar' (translated as Ring/Circlet of God).
> The Chakri Dynasty, the current ruling house of Thailand is named after the weapon.



Many weapons mentioned were actual weapons used in ancient times, later given mythological status. for example, Sudarshana Chakra........ can any one of you tell me the technique to throw this chakra?????
Just remember there is another form of chakra still practised by Sikhs of Punjab.


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## Manas

Nalwa said:


> The next thing you are going to say is that the *Pushpak Viman* was for real.



Real or not , just the extrem concept a flying object like Pushpak Viman thousand years ago existed is amazing.

Ancient Hindu religous scriptures are full of such interesting concept e,g telepathy or teletransforation ,time travel and guided weapons systems. 

*Here is example of use of guided weapons systems in Mahabharat.*
Arjuna had vowed to kill Jaidrath to avenge the killing of him Abhimanyu ,but the was a problem. Jaidrath had a blessing bestowed by father was a sage that whoever makes Jaidrath's severed head fall on the ground ,his own head would explode .
So if Arjuna cuts Jaidrath's head in the battle , his head own would explode. 

Arjuna was in a fix ,so he asked for Lord Krishna help .Lord Krishna instructed him to use his guided weapon that would carry the severed head of Jaidrath to his fathers lap sitting hundreds miles away . The weapon carried to its destination of and dropped it over Jaidrath's father's lap .The old man didn't know the bloddied head was of his own son and threw it to ground .immediately his exploded as per the blessing he himself had given to his son.

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## Alternative

*Brahmadanda*
It was probably a firearm, which was made hollowed out Bamboo stave, about 6 cubits long, stuffed with highly flammable material and kept ready in handy position in a chariot or on elephant.
Effect of weapon was like a flame throwers of WW1 and WW2 fame, scourging any thing that came its path.
May be used as last resort weapon when wielder came under intense attack from numerous assailants.


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## My-Analogous

divya said:


> *Indraastra* Would bring about a 'shower' of arrows from the sky.
> 
> 
> *Agniastra*The weapon discharged would emit flames inextinguishable through normal means.
> 
> *Varunaastra* The weapon discharged would release torrential volumes of water. This weapon is commonly mentioned as used to counter the Agneyastra.
> 
> *Nagaastra* The weapon would have an inerring aim and take on the form of a snake, proving deadly upon impact.
> 
> *Nagapaasha* Upon impact, this weapon would bind the target in coils of living venomous snakes.(in the Ramayana, it was used against Lord Rama and Lakshmana by Indrajit)
> 
> 
> *Vayvayaastra*Bring about a gale capable of lifting armies off the ground.
> 
> *Suryastra	Surya* Create a dazzling light that would dispel any darkness about.
> *Vajra*Target would be struck with bolts of lightning (vajra referring to Indra's thunderbolt).
> 
> *Mohini* Dispel any form of maya or sorcery in the vicinity.
> 
> *Twashtar*When used against a group of opponents (such as an army), would cause them to mistake each other for enemies and fight each other.
> 
> *Sammohana/Pramohana*Would cause entire hosts/armies to collapse in a trance.
> 
> *Parvataastra* Would cause a Parvata/mountain to fall on the target from the skies.
> 
> *Brahmasirsha	*Capable of killing devas. Was used by Ashwatthama on Parikshit. It is thought that the Brahmasirsha is the evolution of the Brahmastra
> 
> *Narayanaastra*Would create showers of arrows and discs. The astra's power would increase with the resistance offered to it. This weapon had to be obtained from Vishnu directly, and could be used only once. If the user were to attempt invoking it a second time, it would rebound on him, and possibly, his troops.
> 
> *Vaishnavaastra* Would destroy target completely, irrespective of target's nature. Infallible. This weapon had to be obtained from Vishnu directly.



Are you sure these weapon was exist b/c the headline is *Mythological Weapons * if not then i must say 3000 B.C science fiction noval

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## Avatar

ghazaliy2k said:


> Are you sure these weapon was exist b/c the headline is *Mythological Weapons * if not then i must say 3000 B.C science fiction noval



Science fiction or Mythology, nobody is stopping you from believing what you want to.


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## RVS_108

i think we shud not translate(give ideas of) our ancient scriptures and its knowledge in especially in our enemy's defence forum.

let them believe in their own story of miracles like splitting of moon as true story and let them believe tht Hinduism's history " a myth ".


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## OldKool

World's first air battle!!India vs Sri Lanka(8900 BC)

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## Srinivas

I think we should give some respect to our ancient scripts and study them to unlock the concepts.
If chankya's arthasastra is still useful and the concepts are working till today why not the concepts in the scripts.
I feel even if the writers are fantasizing of the events and wars that took place it is impossible to imagine to minute details for one person like Valmiki. I feel unlocking the ancient scripts will help for Indian space and aeronautical programs.
There is some similarities between the concept of vimana and UFo's we are talking now a days.


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## Alternative

divya said:


> *Asi (Mahabharata)*​
> 
> 
> Frame narrative
> 
> 
> During the course of the sacrifice, a dreadful creature sprang from the midst of the sacrificial fires scattering flames all around. It was as though a moon had arisen in the midst of the stars. He was colored like a deep-blue lotus. His teeth were sharp and terrible, stomach lean and skinny and stature very tall and slim. He was of exceeding energy and power. ..............The 'being' I have conceived is Asi. It shall effect the destruction of the enemies of the gods and restore the Dharma (righteousness).
> Upon this, the creature assumed the form of a blazing, sharp-edged sword, glowing like the flames at the end of the Kalpa (aeon).
> [edit]Succession of wielders of asi
> 
> ..........., dyed with the blood of the Daityas, to Vishnu.



If 2000 or 3000 years ago, any body to writ down about how to forge steel blade? how to gauge temperature? how to carbonize steel? then above description will hold true.
Color of heated metal or alloys were observed to estimate temperature........ hot blade dipped in blood(fluid having high carbon content??) to give extra strength to steel.


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## Alternative

RVS_108 said:


> i think we shud not translate(give ideas of) our ancient scriptures and its knowledge in especially in our enemy's defence forum.
> 
> let them believe in their own story of miracles like splitting of moon as true story and let them believe tht Hinduism's history " a myth ".



Then why are you running around in an enemy's forum, defending your country, your honor? or what?
You translate?....... More that 90% of your(?) scriptures was translated by non-hindus?
Can you please answer my post dated 20-01-2011 regarding Sudarshana Chakra?
Do you really have knowledge and understand all what is written?

You believe what ever you want to and we believe what eve we want to.

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## Alternative

RVS_108 said:


> Hinduism's history " a myth ".



Your fellow countryman put the date of B.C.8900 to Ramayan.
Can you please tell me, in which YUG it took place? what is the length of YUGs? How many years passed since then?


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## jayron

Alternative said:


> Your fellow countryman put the date of B.C.8900 to Ramayan.
> Can you please tell me, in which YUG it took place? what is the length of YUGs? How many years passed since then?



I think all these things are a myth. Ancient Indians were great at conceptualizing not building. That's why they were good at mathematics and astronomy . But there aren't a lot of mechanical stuff to boast off. All these concepts are interesting but I wouldn't take them seriously.


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## Manas

jayron said:


> I think all these things are a myth. Ancient Indians were great at conceptualizing not building. That's why they were good at mathematics and astronomy . But there aren't a lot of mechanical stuff to boast off. All these concepts are interesting but I wouldn't take them seriously.



Its a drag on imagination to believe that people who were good at conceptualizing didn't try building stuff. interestingly all the weapons aren't mere concepts, they were said to be used in the battle fiend though currelnly suggested as mythical. One more thing, we didn't see much use of newton mechanics in the Mythological Weapons.*They supposedly worked on cosmic energy and drew power from vedic hymns.*

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## Alternative

jayron said:


> I think all these things are a myth. Ancient Indians were great at conceptualizing not building. That's why they were good at mathematics and astronomy . But there aren't a lot of mechanical stuff to boast off. All these concepts are interesting but I wouldn't take them seriously.



Not only good at mathematics and astronomy but in metallurgy, medicine, arts and crafts, sexology, linguistics, literature, jurisprudence, Philosophy, etc. etc. etc.................................... Except........... 
*HISTORY*


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## illuminatidinesh

Thought this was relevent to our topic....


Divyastras were astras used accompanied by chanting of the right sacred mantra. It is only when the correct mantra was chanted and used correctly... did the Divyastras penetrate the goal with alarming clarity. The power of divyastras was not available to the common man... only the sages, saints and Acharyas and their favored pupils were able to handle them properly.
No Divyastras could be used without an accompanying mantra that was essential to invoke the mighty power of the cosmic system... as is the case karate, judo and different martial arts. The power exercised by Bruce Lee has no precedence... it could not be matched by any Human being of his era... his actions were even faster than the instruments used to capture his actions. Many a times the camera itself failed to record his fast actions.

He himself was capable of almost handling a full army single-handed. It is not merely the display of physical powers but when the physical powers are combined with the chanting of the mantras... the martial art itself becomes sacred. The prime reason why the martial arts are meant for security of the self and never to be used against a weaker opponent or for any commercial purpose!

The same technique was used when Divyastras were used in the earlier times... as was the mental capability of the user... so was the instrument available to him. Lord Krishna alone was capable of handling the Sudarshan chakra and none else had the power in his times to use the Sudarshan chakra. Similar was the case with Brahmastra which was also limited to a very few individuals.

In times of Lord Krishna the science had not evolved as it is today. In present times, the commander of the forces simply gives an order and the requisite instrument is fired by a very junior army man... who is trained for that purpose. For the use of a nuclear bomb... we do not expect the commander himself to carry the bomb and use it against the opponent. Today we have means to fire the instrument from a distance and experts are available for every type of job.


In the earlier times it was a culmination of the mental powers along with the art of Spiritual warfare that decided who would be the winner in the end. The invocation of mental powers is very limited today... In present times also it is not the instruments alone which play a part but it is the handling of the instrument which plays the vital role.

The same aircraft when driven by an American pilot does not give the same results as when it is driven by an Indian pilot... the Indian pilots are considered far superior than their American counterparts and it is the handling of the aircraft which makes it a more superior weapon when in the hands of an Indian pilot.


Similar was the case in times of Lord Krishna... the same Brahmastra when used by a person with lesser knowledge did not give the desired results. Invocation of the mental powers simply means that our atman the soul within becomes the guiding factor in all operations. When rightly used... these mental powers gives us so much focus that the results are disastrous for the opposing army.


It is like getting guided by a laser beam! Divyastra do not necessarily mean they were more powerful than the guided instruments of today but comparing with almost negligible presence of science in those days... these Divyastras meant doom for the opponents. Mental powers as shown in the Star Trek serial persisted in times of Lord Krishna. It was not the mere use of hypnotic powers but the actual use of mental powers that gave Lord Krishna, Arjuna, Bhishma pitamah and various other combatants the power they exercised in the battle.
It is but difficult for me to describe the mental powers used by the Spiritual masters of the yester era... but mental powers when rightly used can cause havoc! There is nothing more powerful in the universe than the mental powers... even the atomic bombs and the hydrogen bombs carry no meaning compared to the mental divine powers possessed by the likes of Lord Krishna (considered an Avatar).

Sudarshan chakra was never used by Lord Krishna as and when he liked it... it was not meant to be... Sudarshan chakra could only be used when the pot of sin of any individual was full to the brim... one had to have zero Punya Karma in his balance to be struck down by a Sudarshan chakra! Even Lord Krishna could not have done otherwise!


The battle of Mahabharata was primarily fought with arrows and swords... it was only a few Spiritual masters of the era who were competent enough to use Divyastras.

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## Alternative

illuminatidinesh said:


> Thought this was relevent to our topic....
> 
> 
> Divyastras were astras used accompanied by chanting of the right sacred mantra. It is only when the correct mantra was chanted and used correctly... did the Divyastras penetrate the goal with alarming clarity. The power of divyastras was not available to the common man... only the sages, saints and Acharyas and their favored pupils were able to handle them properly.
> No Divyastras could be used without an accompanying mantra that was essential to invoke the mighty power of the cosmic system... as is the case karate, judo and different martial arts. The power exercised by Bruce Lee has no precedence... it could not be matched by any Human being of his era... his actions were even faster than the instruments used to capture his actions. Many a times the camera itself failed to record his fast actions.
> 
> He himself was capable of almost handling a full army single-handed. It is not merely the display of physical powers but when the physical powers are combined with the chanting of the mantras... the martial art itself becomes sacred. The prime reason why the martial arts are meant for security of the self and never to be used against a weaker opponent or for any commercial purpose!
> 
> The same technique was used when Divyastras were used in the earlier times... as was the mental capability of the user... so was the instrument available to him. Lord Krishna alone was capable of handling the Sudarshan chakra and none else had the power in his times to use the Sudarshan chakra. Similar was the case with Brahmastra which was also limited to a very few individuals.
> 
> In times of Lord Krishna the science had not evolved as it is today. In present times, the commander of the forces simply gives an order and the requisite instrument is fired by a very junior army man... who is trained for that purpose. For the use of a nuclear bomb... we do not expect the commander himself to carry the bomb and use it against the opponent. Today we have means to fire the instrument from a distance and experts are available for every type of job.
> 
> 
> In the earlier times it was a culmination of the mental powers along with the art of Spiritual warfare that decided who would be the winner in the end. The invocation of mental powers is very limited today... In present times also it is not the instruments alone which play a part but it is the handling of the instrument which plays the vital role.
> 
> The same aircraft when driven by an American pilot does not give the same results as when it is driven by an Indian pilot... the Indian pilots are considered far superior than their American counterparts and it is the handling of the aircraft which makes it a more superior weapon when in the hands of an Indian pilot.
> 
> 
> Similar was the case in times of Lord Krishna... the same Brahmastra when used by a person with lesser knowledge did not give the desired results. Invocation of the mental powers simply means that our atman the soul within becomes the guiding factor in all operations. When rightly used... these mental powers gives us so much focus that the results are disastrous for the opposing army.
> 
> 
> It is like getting guided by a laser beam! Divyastra do not necessarily mean they were more powerful than the guided instruments of today but comparing with almost negligible presence of science in those days... these Divyastras meant doom for the opponents. Mental powers as shown in the Star Trek serial persisted in times of Lord Krishna. It was not the mere use of hypnotic powers but the actual use of mental powers that gave Lord Krishna, Arjuna, Bhishma pitamah and various other combatants the power they exercised in the battle.
> It is but difficult for me to describe the mental powers used by the Spiritual masters of the yester era... but mental powers when rightly used can cause havoc! There is nothing more powerful in the universe than the mental powers... even the atomic bombs and the hydrogen bombs carry no meaning compared to the mental divine powers possessed by the likes of Lord Krishna (considered an Avatar).
> 
> Sudarshan chakra was never used by Lord Krishna as and when he liked it... it was not meant to be... Sudarshan chakra could only be used when the pot of sin of any individual was full to the brim... one had to have zero Punya Karma in his balance to be struck down by a Sudarshan chakra! Even Lord Krishna could not have done otherwise!
> 
> 
> The battle of Mahabharata was primarily fought with arrows and swords... it was only a few Spiritual masters of the era who were competent enough to use Divyastras.




You have reproduced the post #14 by Divya, please go through entire thread before posting.

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## Ganguly

Utthamum dadhdadaath paadam..


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## Alternative

Ganguly said:


> Utthamum dadhdadaath paadam..



Utthamum dadhdadaath paadam- The first fart is like the sound of a motor vehicle... 
Madhyam paadam thuchuk chuk- The second fart stutters like the sound of a train. 
Ghanisthah thud thudi paadam- The third one is like the siren of an ambulance. 
Surr surri praan gatakam- But, the fourth one is a silent killer...
 no silent killing......


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## Nalwa

Bas karo yar. Enough priding over mythological weapons. Remember, mythological means they didn't exist.

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## Arsalan

Nalwa said:


> Bas karo yar. Enough priding over mythological weapons. Remember, mythological means they didn't exist.



adding to the list..

LCA Tejas!!!


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## jbond197

arsalanaslam123 said:


> adding to the list..
> 
> LCA Tejas!!!



You missed Arjun in your Troll attempt.. isn't it? 

Bhai, Jisko is thread pe aake pet main dard hota hai woh is thread pe aaye hi na..


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> If 2000 or 3000 years ago, any body to writ down about how to forge steel blade? how to gauge temperature? how to carbonize steel? then above description will hold true.
> Color of heated metal or alloys were observed to estimate temperature........ hot blade dipped in blood(fluid having high carbon content??) to give extra strength to steel.



I liked your comments about the Sikh use of the Quoit and the Dandastram, although the wisecrack about 'history' not being our strength came too close to the bone for comfort! 

What did you mean, btw, by your remarks above? I am not sure and would like you to clarify before I comment. Are you saying that around 100 BC to 100 AD, nobody knew how to forge steel? to gauge temperature? to carbonise steel? Even taking the other end of the time envelope into account, is it your case that this was - these were - unknown around 1000 BC? 

It's been dull on the forum; I look forward to your response with anticipation and hope.

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## Capt.Popeye

arsalanaslam123 said:


> adding to the list..
> 
> LCA Tejas!!!



Wow, the fruit of diligent research is this; Mr. Researcher!
Whatta flop.

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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> I liked your comments about the Sikh use of the Quoit and the Dandastram, although the wisecrack about 'history' not being our strength came too close to the bone for comfort!
> 
> What did you mean, btw, by your remarks above? I am not sure and would like you to clarify before I comment. Are you saying that around 100 BC to 100 AD, nobody knew how to forge steel? to gauge temperature? to carbonise steel? Even taking the other end of the time envelope into account, is it your case that this was - these were - unknown around 1000 BC?
> 
> It's been dull on the forum; I look forward to your response with anticipation and hope.



If you like any thing, click the thanks button. Comment on 'History' was bit dramatized to get attention of the readers. but it is true to the bone.
My comments regarding steel were in response to the original post titled Asi by thread starter 'Divya' in which myth regarding creation of Asi(sword) was told. 
My comment is my interpretation of that myth. Hoping to clear my point.
My question regarding Sudarshana Chakra remain unanswered till now.


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> Many weapons mentioned were actual weapons used in ancient times, later given mythological status. for example, Sudarshana Chakra........ *can any one of you tell me the technique to throw this chakra?*????
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember there is another form of chakra still practised by Sikhs of Punjab.



No, I must humbly confess that none of us know how to use the Sudarshan Chakra, nor do any of us, Sikhs included, know how the chakram was used. You seem to have the upper hand over the whole pack of us on this one. 

But you will find as you go along that this will sadly be the case in the majority. Most of us have nothing to do but put together a lot of fine words in impressive sentences; the amount of knowledge we have is quite dismal. Brace yourself for a long and harrowing spell of being the only person to know about things.

Pair of war quoits - Throwing Blades and Sticks - Object 1906.64.1 Pitt Rivers Museum



Alternative said:


> If 2000 or 3000 years ago, any body to writ down about how to forge steel blade? how to gauge temperature? how to carbonize steel? then above description will hold true.
> Color of heated metal or alloys were observed to estimate temperature........ hot blade dipped in blood(fluid having high carbon content??) to give extra strength to steel.



Regarding your questions about steel, it might help the rest of us to read a little. In college, 40 years ago, I read about Wootz Steel, and that led to further grubbing around, especially as my first job happened to be with a subsidiary of Tata Iron and Steel, way back in 74. But again, instead of weaving together fancy stuff, let us make things easier.

Ancient steel

Steel was known in antiquity, and may have been produced by managing bloomeries, iron-smelting facilities, where the bloom contained carbon.[17]

The earliest known production of steel is a piece of ironware excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehoyuk) and is about 4,000 years old.[18] Other ancient steel comes from East Africa, dating back to 1400 BC.[19] In the 4th century BC steel weapons like the Falcata were produced in the Iberian Peninsula, while Noric steel was used by the Roman military.[20] The Chinese of the Warring States (403&#8211;221 BC) had quench-hardened steel,[21] while Chinese of the Han Dynasty (202 BC &#8211; 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD.[22][23] The Haya people of East Africa discovered a type of high-heat blast furnace which allowed them to forge carbon steel at 1,802 °C (3,276 °F) nearly 2,000 years ago.[24] This ability was not duplicated until centuries later in Europe during the Industrial Revolution.

Wootz steel and Damascus steel

Evidence of the earliest production of high carbon steel in the Indian Subcontinent was found in Samanalawewa area in Sri Lanka.[25] Wootz steel was produced in India by about 300 BC.[26] Along with their original methods of forging steel, the Chinese had also adopted the production methods of creating Wootz steel, an idea imported into China from India by the 5th century AD.[27] In Sri Lanka, this early steel-making method employed the unique use of a wind furnace, blown by the monsoon winds, that was capable of producing high-carbon steel.[28] 

Also known as Damascus steel, wootz is famous for its durability and ability to hold an edge. It was originally created from a number of different materials including various trace elements. It was essentially a complicated alloy with iron as its main component. Recent studies have suggested that carbon nanotubes were included in its structure, which might explain some of its legendary qualities, though given the technology available at that time, they were produced by chance rather than by design.[29] 

Natural wind was used where the soil containing iron was heated up with the use of wood. The ancient Sinhalese managed to extract a ton of steel for every 2 tons of soil[citation needed], a remarkable feat at the time. One such furnace was found in Samanalawewa and archaeologists were able to produce steel as the ancients did long ago.[28][30]

Crucible steel, formed by slowly heating and cooling pure iron and carbon (typically in the form of charcoal) in a crucible, was produced in Merv by the 9th to 10th century AD.[26] In the 11th century, there is evidence of the production of steel in Song China using two techniques: a "berganesque" method that produced inferior, inhomogeneous steel and a precursor to the modern Bessemer process that utilized partial decarbonization via repeated forging under a cold blast.[31]




Alternative said:


> Then why are you running around in an enemy's forum, defending your country, your honor? or what?
> You translate?....... More that 90% of your(?) scriptures was translated by non-hindus?
> Can you please answer my post dated 20-01-2011 regarding Sudarshana Chakra?
> Do you really have knowledge and understand all what is written?
> 
> You believe what ever you want to and we believe what eve we want to.



True, very true.

Are you are looking for economies of scale? You know, mass graves and things.

If so, and always bearing in mind your words from the following passage, regarding "History", might I hazard the opinion that while it is difficult dating myths and multi-authored epics like the Ramayana, it was probably 'composed' over a longer period of time than the Mahabharata, probably starting with a root-story of characters from the 8th or 7th century BC, and finally reaching its definitive form around four hundred years later, sometime during 500 BC and 400 BC? I am saying this for several reasons:

The main verses dealing with the youth of Rama and his growing up show that the 'composer(s)' were familiar with Aryavarta as it developed in the first millennium BC, transitioning from the Heroic Age of the tribes that we see in the Mahabharata to the age of the Mahajanapadas, to the growing power and influence of the eastern stretches of the Gangetic Plain, and kingdoms such as Mithila and Ayodhya.
[*]Later chapters and verses are abruptly different, and are quite unconnected to Indian geography (leave alone the retrospective identification of places in the epic with some geographical feature today. In fact, I would personally argue, given that the mission is to make a complete fool of myself, for a provenance that is truly ancient, even older than the very firmly founded Mahabharata, and reflects a story that the Indo-Aryans brought to India with them in some prototypical form. 
[*]This is due to the epic's use of the words Vanara and Asura. While Asura is known to us linguistically, having featured in the cleavage between Indo-Aryan trekking east into Balkh, Afghanistan and the Pamirs, and then the Hindu Kush, and Iranians following the Avesta, trekking west in the wake of the east Iranian speaking Medes and Persians, into the Iranian Plateau, the word Vanara is pure magic. The Rg Veda already calls monkeys 'kapi'; it is tempting to see in the word Vanara a throwback to the Proto-Indo-European Vanir, the Vanir who, with the Aesir, vied with Odin and his warband for mastery of the world.
Much becomes clear if we think of the Vanara as primaeval Titanic figures, much like the Titans themselves, not the monkeys of the ancient south Asian jungle but a mythical set of beings, demi-gods, descended with equal mystery as the gods themselves, and dominated by the gods through accident of circumstance. The Asura we already think of in similar terms, and with little or no discredit: in real life, I bear an Asura name from this epic, and it causes no surprise or difficulty in daily life.



Alternative said:


> Not only good at mathematics and astronomy but in metallurgy, medicine, arts and crafts, sexology, linguistics, literature, jurisprudence, Philosophy, etc. etc. etc.................................... Except...........
> *HISTORY*



Very true; oh, very, very true.

...'tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a church-door; but 'tis enough, 'twill serve. 



Alternative said:


> If you like any thing, click the thanks button.



Ah, so!

I *knew* that dratted thing stood for something important.

Thanks for the tip. It makes things so clear now.



Alternative said:


> Comment on 'History' was bit dramatized to get attention of the readers. but it is true to the bone.
> My comments regarding steel were in response to the original post titled Asi by thread starter 'Divya' in which myth regarding creation of Asi(sword) was told.
> My comment is my interpretation of that myth. Hoping to clear my point.
> My question regarding Sudarshana Chakra remain unanswered till now.



We shall keep to your words, and hew to the bone.

However, I was not curious merely about why you wrote about steel, but also about what you wrote about it; this may not have come through in my tangled way of writing, and you may not have understood that I was asking you that question. Just a quick foretaste of the kinds of trials you will undergo.

Your interpretation of the myth is marvellous; I am left speechless.

Finally, I am hopeful that we will find an answer to your question about the Sudarshan Chakra by working unitedly together, at least as long as from Treta to Dwapar.

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## Awesome

divya said:


> *Bhramadanda The Deadliest of all weapons ​*
> Bhramadanda which shares its name with the stick used by the sages was the stick used by bhrama. As a defensive weapon it had the power to stop all other weapons but when used on offensive purpose it would destroy the entire universe. There are no evidences of its usage in any of the scriptures though Drona in Mahabharata had knowledge to use it but he never used it.


The most powerful stick type weapon in Abrahamic texts is the staff of Moses.

Amongst various miracles, he split the red sea. There's an alternate belief that as prince of Egypt, Moses had access to special mythical weapons in the Egyptian armory. 

The Pharoah initially allowed the 12 tribes to leave, but then suddenly decided to chase after them with his army. It is believed at this time, the Pharoah learned that the Prophet had left with some super powerful weapon mounted to his staff.

Anyway, its myth and neo-myth now, with it being created by imagination of mankind. Although I personally feel that you can perhaps get 1% of reality from the mythical stories as most of them were probably depicted magical as the people of the times didn't understand technology that may be relatively very advance.

Pretty sure there would be a holy grail like myth in Hinduism too.

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## divya

Asim Aquil said:


> The most powerful stick type weapon in Abrahamic texts is the staff of Moses.
> 
> Amongst various miracles, he split the red sea. There's an alternate belief that as prince of Egypt, Moses had access to special mythical weapons in the Egyptian armory.
> 
> The Pharoah initially allowed the 12 tribes to leave, but then suddenly decided to chase after them with his army. It is believed at this time, the Pharoah learned that the Prophet had left with some super powerful weapon mounted to his staff.
> 
> Anyway, its myth and neo-myth now, with it being created by imagination of mankind. Although I personally feel that you can perhaps get 1% of reality from the mythical stories as most of them were probably depicted magical as the people of the times didn't understand technology that may be relatively very advance.
> 
> Pretty sure there would be a holy grail like myth in Hinduism too.



there is a myth that there was a secreat society which was formed by asoka to preseve the knowledge which could be dangerous to men in coming times. it is said that the group still remains hidden preserving this knowledge


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## KS

divya said:


> there is a myth that there was a secreat society which was formed by asoka to preseve the knowledge which could be dangerous to men in coming times. it is said that the group still remains hidden preserving this knowledge



And the myth goes on like the texts with those knowledge were preserved at the ancient university at Nalanda and it was secretly carted away to monastries in Tibet when Baktiyar Khilji ravaged it.

It is thought that those texts are preserved till now there.

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## Alternative

divya said:


> there is a myth that there was a secreat society which was formed by asoka to preseve the knowledge which could be dangerous to men in coming times. it is said that the group still remains hidden preserving this knowledge



Answering myth with a "myth".
--Bishma whlie lying on bed of arrows asks for water and refuse to drink by ordinary means so "Arjuna mounts his chariot and after some driving" shoot an arrow in the ground, a fountain erupts and thirst of Bishma is quenched. Bishma then advices the Kuru King, Durjodana, to make peace with Pandavas as no one alive could do that---
As all died by the end of Mahabarata, and no disciple of Arjuna mentioned, so no one left with knowledge. 
Furthermore, I dont remember reading about any "text of warfare" in Mahabharata. Everyone wanted celestial weapons and nowhere is mentioned Manual.


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## Alternative

Karthic Sri said:


> And the myth goes on like the texts with those knowledge were preserved at the ancient university at Nalanda and it was secretly carted away to monastries in Tibet when Baktiyar Khilji ravaged it.
> 
> It is thought that those texts are preserved till now there.



Dear sir, You must understand what you are talking. A man with the weapons and skill of Bishma would be unstoppable. if you consult Mahabharata, half of Pandava army was annihilated by Bishma alone in 10 days(may be, as I don't remember clearly but I do remember all was over in 18 days) and Arjuna had to resolve to UNFAIR means.
Such Knowledge(IF) extant(IF) carted away on donkeys for what purpose. If safe keeping? then burn it to ashes, it will be safe for posterity.


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## KS

Alternative said:


> Dear sir, You must understand what you are talking. A man with the weapons and skill of Bishma would be unstoppable. if you consult Mahabharata, half of Pandava army was annihilated by Bishma alone in 10 days(may be, as I don't remember clearly but I do remember all was over in 18 days) and Arjuna had to resolve to UNFAIR means.



Yes Bhishma was unstoppable but only if he had the will to fight.

Bhisma, the wise man he was, knew who was right and who was wrong and fought for the Kouravas only for the sake of loyalty and it is implied that he did not give his full especially in his battle with Arjuna and the Pandavas.




Alternative said:


> Such Knowledge(IF) extant(IF) carted away on donkeys for what purpose. If safe keeping? then burn it to ashes, it will be safe for posterity.



No, the knowledge included much much more than that - it is said to include the knowledge about alchemy,anti-gravity, the science of making vimanas, the knowledge of nuclear science and many scientific secrets which in the wrong hands could have wreaked havoc on the world. But in the correct hands would have been a boon to mankind - the reason they were not burnt exactly, but taken by the buddhist monks to Tibet.


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## divya

Alternative said:


> Answering myth with a "myth".
> --Bishma whlie lying on bed of arrows asks for water and refuse to drink by ordinary means so "Arjuna mounts his chariot and after some driving" shoot an arrow in the ground, a fountain erupts and thirst of Bishma is quenched. Bishma then advices the Kuru King, Durjodana, to make peace with Pandavas as no one alive could do that---
> As all died by the end of Mahabarata, and no disciple of Arjuna mentioned, so no one left with knowledge.
> Furthermore, I dont remember reading about any "text of warfare" in Mahabharata. Everyone wanted celestial weapons and nowhere is mentioned Manual.



not everyone died in mahabharta including kauravas. at the end there were 3 kauravas left along with the clan of arjun by parikshit. parikshit was the one who almost killed the kali yuga personified before allowing him in gold. it is said that it was kali yuga because of which this knowledge was to destroyed because people will stop being pious and will start questioning god for his existence. evil will be at its best. there wont be any yajnas, whole world will get confused about god and towards the end there will be only oe relation left of man and woman....


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> Wow, So long a post, my patience duly rewarded.
> I will try one thing at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I must humbly confess that none of us know how to use the Sudarshan Chakra, nor do any of us, Sikhs included, know how the chakram was used. You seem to have the upper hand over the whole pack of us on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Sikhs know how to use Chakram, War Quoits (Not to be confused with Sudarshana Chakra or Quoit of Zena). I remember seeing a video on youtube in which a young Akali warrior shows some sword forms and then threw some chakram, first small about 4 inches diameter, by whirling very quickly chakram around index finger, hand at the level little above head, and with a snap hurl it towards target.
> A correct technique indeed.
> He, Akali, then threw larger chakram (about the size shown in your posted link) like a Frisbee, hand wrapped around outer edge, pulled back under other armpit, released imparting a spin with the power of arm.
> A Wrong technique, i am afraid.
Click to expand...

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## divya

Alternative said:


> Joe Shearer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, So long a post, my patience duly rewarded.
> I will try one thing at a time.
> 
> Sikhs know how to use Chakram, War Quoits (Not to be confused with Sudarshana Chakra or Quoit of Zena). I remember seeing a video on youtube in which a young Akali warrior shows some sword forms and then threw some chakram, first small about 4 inches diameter, by whirling very quickly chakram around index finger, hand at the level little above head, and with a snap hurl it towards target.
> A correct technique indeed.
> He, Akali, then threw larger chakram (about the size shown in your posted link) like a Frisbee, hand wrapped around outer edge, pulled back under other armpit, released imparting a spin with the power of arm.
> A Wrong technique, i am afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually what u r talking about is chakra. though in sanskrit it is called chakram. sudarshan chakra was different in terms as it was formed from the sun dust along with pushpak vimana and shivas trident. it has 2 spikes rotating in opposite direction. and i guess it had some 10 million spikes if i remember correctly.
Click to expand...


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## Alternative

divya said:


> not everyone died in mahabharta including kauravas. at the end there were 3 kauravas left along with the clan of arjun by parikshit. parikshit was the one who almost killed the kali yuga personified before allowing him in gold. it is said that it was kali yuga because of which this knowledge was to destroyed because people will stop being pious and will start questioning god for his existence. evil will be at its best. there wont be any yajnas, whole world will get confused about god and towards the end there will be only oe relation left of man and woman....



Sorry I could not elaborate my point earlier. As I recall from memory if it serves well,.... Bishma while lying on bed or arrows tell Durjodana that Arjuna only left with knowledge, ......


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## illuminatidinesh

> Sorry I could not elaborate my point earlier. As I recall from memory if it serves well,.... Bishma while lying on bed or arrows tell Durjodana that Arjuna only left with knowledge, .....


That was made as a last resort to end the war, though he himself knew it wouldn work with Duryodana....


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## divya

Alternative said:


> Sorry I could not elaborate my point earlier. As I recall from memory if it serves well,.... Bishma while lying on bed or arrows tell Durjodana that Arjuna only left with knowledge, ......



not really ashwathama also had knowledge of bhramastra who is another immortals of hinudism who was cursed to live till eternity in pain by krishna. 

thouugh ashwathma could invoke brahmastra only once but he had knowledge to invoke it.

there is a temple of shiva i forgot the placename where evry morning there is a flower at the shiva idol and is said that ashwathama does that and had been going on since ages. no one actually ever found out where that flower comes there everyday.


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## illuminatidinesh

> actually what u r talking about is chakra. though in sanskrit it is called chakram. sudarshan chakra was different in terms as it was formed from the sun dust along with pushpak vimana and shivas trident. it has 2 spikes rotating in opposite direction. and i guess it had some 10 million spikes if i remember correctly.


Correct and the use or the know how to use it is known only to Lord Krishna.
At the begining of war Lord Krishna vowed not to use any of his power in the war.


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## illuminatidinesh

> thouugh ashwathma could invoke brahmastra only once but he had knowledge to invoke it.


Ya he has the knowledge to invoke but not revoke....... Only Arjun has that power.


> there is a temple of shiva i forgot the placename where evry morning there is a flower at the shiva idol and is said that ashwathama does that and had been going on since ages. no one actually ever found out where that flower comes there everyday.


It is in madya pradesh I think, Often called as gate way to South India I think (not Sure)


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## divya

illuminatidinesh said:


> Correct and the use or the know how to use it is known only to Lord Krishna.
> At the begining of war Lord Krishna vowed not to use any of his power in the war.



yups and he almost broke his vow once for love of arjuna.

though his presence itself at the arjuna rath saved arjuna .... else he was doomed. and thats why he asked arjuna to get down first before him after war and as soon as he and hanuman stepped out the ratha burned into flames.


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## divya

illuminatidinesh said:


> Ya he has the knowledge to invoke but not revoke....... Only Arjun has that power.
> 
> It is in madya pradesh I think, Often called as gate way to South India I think (not Sure)



and i guess only bhisma and drona had knowledge of brhamadanda but they never used it for the sake of annihilation of universe.

even the brhamastra was never countered. because it could only be countered with another bhramastra and collison of 2 bhrmastra was too destructive


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## illuminatidinesh

> yups and he almost broke his vow once for love of arjuna.
> 
> though his presence itself at the arjuna rath saved arjuna .... else he was doomed. and thats why he asked arjuna to get down first before him after war and as soon as he and hanuman stepped out the ratha burned into flames.


I might have missed the last part, why burned into flames?


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## illuminatidinesh

> even the brhamastra was never countered. because it could only be countered with another bhramastra and collison of 2 bhrmastra was too destructive


It will lead to famine at the place where it collides(dont know exactly for how long) How similar to the nuclear bomb....


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## divya

illuminatidinesh said:


> I might have missed the last part, why burned into flames?



oh well there was a custom that the king used to step down second after the sarathi. but krishna requested arjun to step down first and then he signalled hanuman to get off from flag and then he came down. as soon as he came down the rath burned because of the impact of weapons which were used on it. it was presence of krishna which was delaying the impact.


there is another incident when arjuna got pissed off with krishna for praising karna for being able to move his ratha a inch and when he himself had thrown away ratha of karna many meters away with his weapons.


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## divya

illuminatidinesh said:


> It will lead to famine at the place where it collides(dont know exactly for how long) How similar to the nuclear bomb....



that was 12 years if i am not wrong. and wat u said was impact of one bhramasta. but when it was countered with another one it meant complete annihilation. thats why arjuna called back his brahmastra on ashwathama and ashwathama redirected his...


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## illuminatidinesh

> that was 12 years if i am not wrong. and wat u said was impact of one bhramasta. but when it was countered with another one it meant complete annihilation. thats why arjuna called back his brahmastra on ashwathama and ashwathama redirected his...


Hmmmm the power of mind..... Unlimited !!!!!!!

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## divya

hey i am not able to find info on radioactivity in kurukshetra... i posted one link is there any more info with anyone.


lately there is a sunken city has been found near dwarka in gujrat. but there are many techinical challenges in exploration. it is interpreted it can be ancient dwarka but they have just found walls of the city


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> Pair of war quoits - Throwing Blades and Sticks - Object 1906.64.1 Pitt Rivers Museum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding your questions about steel, it might help the rest of us to read a little. In college, 40 years ago, I read about Wootz Steel, and that led to further grubbing around, especially as my first job happened to be with a subsidiary of Tata Iron and Steel, way back in 74. But again, instead of weaving together fancy stuff, let us make things easier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact I had not asked any question.... but was trying to be eloquent...in phrasing my post
> 
> My post reproduced below:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by divya
> Asi (Mahabharata)
> 
> 
> 
> Frame narrative
> 
> 
> During the course of the sacrifice, a dreadful creature sprang from the midst of the sacrificial fires scattering flames all around. It was as though a moon had arisen in the midst of the stars. He was colored like a deep-blue lotus. His teeth were sharp and terrible, stomach lean and skinny and stature very tall and slim. He was of exceeding energy and power. ..............The 'being' I have conceived is Asi. It shall effect the destruction of the enemies of the gods and restore the Dharma (righteousness).
> Upon this, the creature assumed the form of a blazing, sharp-edged sword, glowing like the flames at the end of the Kalpa (aeon).
> [edit]Succession of wielders of asi
> 
> ..........., dyed with the blood of the Daityas, to Vishnu.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If 2000 or 3000 years ago, any body to writ down about how to forge steel blade? how to gauge temperature? how to carbonize steel? then above description will hold true.
> Color of heated metal or alloys were observed to estimate temperature........ hot blade dipped in blood(fluid having high carbon content??) to give extra strength to steel.
Click to expand...


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## SpArK

divya said:


> hey i am not able to find info on radioactivity in kurukshetra... i posted one link is there any more info with anyone.
> 
> 
> lately there is a sunken city has been found near dwarka in gujrat. but there are many techinical challenges in exploration. it is interpreted it can be ancient dwarka but they have just found walls of the city



*23000 yrs old Evidence of Dwarka city found underwater*





​In the photo (courtesy ASI) above, An underwater archaeologist of the ASI examines an ancient structure off the shore of Dwaraka; a circular structure on the shore at Dwaraka; fragment of an ancient structure found underwater; remains of an ancient structure in the forecourt of the Shri Dwarakadhish Mandir (temple).

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## SpArK



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## divya

another great mystery is the rasleela of mathura on janamastmi. till today no one is able to figure it out how everything which is kept in order get disturbed by morning in a temple on janamastmi. those who tried to find out either went crazy or became a crzy fan of krishna.

there is also a temple there where the parda is constantly closed and opened continuously. it is said that if u gaze in the eyes of that idol it can turn you crazy for love of krishna.


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## divya

it is said parshurams axe was another most deadly weapon. but i am not able to find much info on it.he destroyed a clan of khatriyas 7 times with it. it is said that that axe was further gifted to ganesha by him after ebing saved from wrath of parvati by shiva and ganesha


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## duhastmish

divya said:


> another great mystery is the rasleela of mathura on janamastmi. till today no one is able to figure it out how everything which is kept in order get disturbed by morning in a temple on janamastmi. those who tried to find out either went crazy or became a crzy fan of krishna.
> 
> there is also a temple there where the parda is constantly closed and opened continuously. it is said that if u gaze in the eyes of that idol it can turn you crazy for love of krishna.




i think its also one of those mythological weapon . the desi peanut.







-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

but one thing is for sure - those guys could actually do better work than drdo. 

and yeh krishna was cool - my fav. hindu god. he was like charlie sheen in two and half men.

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## Joe Shearer

It is an excellent idea to try out one thing at a time. It is an equally good idea to assume that others know as much if not more than one does, and is good for one's soul as well. 

However, your self-assurance and confidence in every single aspect of your communications is truly impressive, and so too the genuine depth of knowledge that you display so effortlessly. 

I sincerely appreciate it.

If it were possible to arrange a suitable release of excess air once a day, and thus retain a little humility, sadly in short supply at the moment, you may turn out to be an outstanding commentator.



Alternative said:


> Wow, So long a post, my patience duly rewarded.
> I will try one thing at a time.
> 
> That is an excellent idea, to start with.
> 
> It would be an equally good idea if you follow up every aspect of every answer fully. Do yourself the favour to read carefully what others have written; none of it is casual or accidental.
> 
> For instance, the posted link also contains a description of how the chakram was used. Possibly you have missed that.
> 
> Secondly, the finger-whirling technique can be used only with very small chakrams, although this was the traditional way in which Sri Krishna used his Sudarshan Chakra; the way he carries it, constantly whirling on his forefinger, says it all.
> 
> However, this is grossly impractical; the quoit technique - frisbee, as you have called it, and as it is indeed called in modern times, although war-quoit is what it was and it was like a quoit that it was used - is actually the correct one for larger sizes.
> 
> The reason is that smaller quoits/ chakram are not very effective, taking too long to reach launch velocity around the finger (try it for yourself; I have).
> 
> Secondly, a small quoit does not travel far. So in close combat, if you see someone pluck the chakram out and start twirling it about his finger, you don't just sit there and wait to be sliced open, you put your shield up, if bearing a shield, or take alternative (rather urgent) action, either offensive or defensive. It is at ranges outside sword or spear range but not much further that a small finger-launched quoit might be effective, largely because of surprise.
> 
> Only the very smallest are launched like that. The larger ones, the ones, for instance, that the soldiers wear as part of their headgear, even now, in the Sikh Regiment, are thrown backhanded, from the right hand from a tucked away position deep towards the left outward at the enemy.
> 
> This is not the wrong technique, as you have said; it is the correct one for the larger sizes. It also allows a slightly longer range, awkwardly out of the reach of hand-weaponry, and is difficult to intercept if otherwise engaged in close combat with someone else, the ideal battle situation when it is to be used.
> 
> In other words, it is best used against an enemy swordsman or pikeman or spearman already fully engaged a slight distance away, and unable to pay full attention to you wrestling with your headgear to pluck a quoit out!
> 
> You are possibly influenced by the mythical method, the method used by Krishna in launching his Sudarshan Chakra, which as it happens is a practicable method, save for the fact that such a technique would not carry long distances (mythical references and mythical distances may be left in the myths - let the myth bury the myth).
> 
> For close quarters combat, it is a complete fiasco. I would strongly not recommend to anyone a pause in close quarters combat and a retirement to release a chakram, place it on a suitable forefinger, and then start twirling it. What the opponent or any random passing swordsman or spear-holder would do with this lengthy interval doesn't bear thinking about. So if you find yourself in a sword-fight or a knife-fight, don't bother to pause to unlimber your quoit; if you do that, you are history.
> 
> 
> Sikhs know how to use Chakram, War Quoits (Not to be confused with Sudarshana Chakra or Quoit of Zena).
> 
> As a matter of fact, the technique that you have described as 'correct', the finger-launched technique, is exactly that used for the Sudarshan. So it is a little confused, more than a little confused, to say that that the Sikh Chakram is not to be confused with the Sudarshana.
> 
> I remember seeing a video on youtube in which a young Akali warrior shows some sword forms and then threw some chakram, first small about 4 inches diameter, by whirling very quickly chakram around index finger, hand at the level little above head, and with a snap hurl it towards target.
> A correct technique indeed.
> 
> Only for very small chakrams, but generally wrong for larger sizes, for the reasons mentioned above.
> 
> He, Akali, then threw larger chakram (about the size shown in your posted link) like a Frisbee, hand wrapped around outer edge, pulled back under other armpit, released imparting a spin with the power of arm.
> A Wrong technique, i am afraid.
> 
> And how did you come to that magisterial conclusion? What I have described, I have described on the basis of the practices of the Buddha Dal Nihangs, who keep up these practices to this day. And they demonstrated this precise combination of technique, with the use of the finger-launched technique not ruled out for smaller quoits.
> 
> In short, there are two techniques for the two size-ranges, and it is incorrect to describe one or the other as canonical.


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## Joe Shearer

divya said:


> actually what u r talking about is chakra. though in sanskrit it is called chakram. sudarshan chakra was different in terms as it was formed from the sun dust along with pushpak vimana and shivas trident. it has 2 spikes rotating in opposite direction. and i guess it had some 10 million spikes if i remember correctly.



Have you read post 69 before writing this?

It is uninteresting to read the same information from different sources not very far apart in the thread. As you started the thread, I should have assumed that you would read whatever others are contributing to it, with some care. 

You don't seem to be of the same opinion. 

sincerely,

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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> It is an excellent idea to try out one thing at a time. It is an equally good idea to assume that others know as much if not more than one does, and is good for one's soul as well.
> 
> However, your self-assurance and confidence in every single aspect of your communications is truly impressive, and so too the genuine depth of knowledge that you display so effortlessly.
> 
> I sincerely appreciate it.
> 
> If it were possible to arrange a suitable release of excess air once a day, and thus retain a little humility, sadly in short supply at the moment, you may turn out to be an outstanding commentator.



I have no excess air or something, just that I don't have enough time to respond/post, hence have to resort to bits. Please bear with me, its been 19 years since I left college. 
Thanks for your kind words, and yours words of advice duly noted.

Now continuing from my last post, Chakram of Sikhs(War Quoits) of Larger sizes, The throwing technique was that I came to know, used a round 'stick' (of sufficient strength and diameter)same way as index finger for short chakram. That technique in my view, can generate much more power than Frisbee throw.
Spin and speed determine the efficacy of chakram, and i reckon that, Frisbee style throw of large chakram would not generate enough spin and speed, against an opponent at 70-80 meters, to cause serious damage (sever a limb or head etc.). 
I am not aware of the practice of Buddha Dal Nihangs.

I remember seeing paintings (may be in Lahore Museum, or history books, or in both), a number of chakram, 'tied' with waist belt of sikh sardars on their left side.
When sikhs wanted to carry a concealed weapon even when in peace,(as a part of their religious obligation..?), small chakram was carried within layers of turban. one may carry it in battle in turban on his choosing.
The finger technique of throwing small chakram is not that slow which you seem to infer. for example, when you learn to punch, you closely follow movement of your hand, twist of wrist, bend of knuckle, throw of shoulder, sway of hip etc. but when you have mastered the form, after 3 or 4 year of practice all these stages are hardly precept-able to you or onlooker. you can throw 4 or 5 punches per second easily.
Similarly, you will be amazed with the results if you persist with practice and try to better your technique, spin swirl and throw in one go. 
...to be taken up shortly....

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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> [COLOR="Blue"
> Are you are looking for economies of scale? You know, mass graves and things.
> 
> If so, and always bearing in mind your words from the following passage, regarding "History", might I hazard the opinion that while it is difficult dating myths and multi-authored epics like the Ramayana, it was probably 'composed' over a longer period of time than the Mahabharata, probably starting with a root-story of characters from the 8th or 7th century BC, and finally reaching its definitive form around four hundred years later, sometime during 500 BC and 400 BC? I am saying this for several reasons:[/COLOR]
> [LIST=1]
> [*][COLOR="BLUE"]The main verses dealing with the youth of Rama and his growing up show that the 'composer(s)' were familiar with Aryavarta as it developed in the first millennium BC, transitioning from the Heroic Age of the tribes that we see in the Mahabharata to the age of the Mahajanapadas, to the growing power and influence of the eastern stretches of the Gangetic Plain, and kingdoms such as Mithila and Ayodhya.
> [*]Later chapters and verses are abruptly different, and are quite unconnected to Indian geography (leave alone the retrospective identification of places in the epic with some geographical feature today. In fact, I would personally argue, given that the mission is to make a complete fool of myself, for a provenance that is truly ancient, even older than the very firmly founded Mahabharata, and reflects a story that the Indo-Aryans brought to India with them in some prototypical form.
> [*]This is due to the epic's use of the words [/COLOR]Vanara and Asura. While Asura is known to us linguistically, having featured in the cleavage between Indo-Aryan trekking east into Balkh, Afghanistan and the Pamirs, and then the Hindu Kush, and Iranians following the Avesta, trekking west in the wake of the east Iranian speaking Medes and Persians, into the Iranian Plateau, the word Vanara is pure magic. The Rg Veda already calls monkeys 'kapi'; it is tempting to see in the word Vanara a throwback to the Proto-Indo-European Vanir, the Vanir who, with the Aesir, vied with Odin and his warband for mastery of the world.
> [*]Much becomes clear if we think of the Vanara as primaeval Titanic figures, much like the Titans themselves, not the monkeys of the ancient south Asian jungle but a mythical set of beings, demi-gods, descended with equal mystery as the gods themselves, and dominated by the gods through accident of circumstance. The Asura we already think of in similar terms, and with little or no discredit: in real life, I bear an Asura name from this epic, and it causes no surprise or difficulty in daily life.
> [/LIST]
> 
> 
> 
> Very true; oh, very, very true.
> 
> ...'tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a church-door; but 'tis enough, 'twill serve.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so!
> 
> I *knew* that dratted thing stood for something important.
> 
> Thanks for the tip. It makes things so clear now.
> 
> 
> 
> We shall keep to your words, and hew to the bone.
> 
> However, I was not curious merely about why you wrote about steel, but also about what you wrote about it; this may not have come through in my tangled way of writing, and you may not have understood that I was asking you that question. Just a quick foretaste of the kinds of trials you will undergo.
> 
> Your interpretation of the myth is marvellous; I am left speechless.
> 
> Finally, I am hopeful that we will find an answer to your question about the Sudarshan Chakra by working unitedly together, at least as long as from Treta to Dwapar.



It is already 311 Dwapara in ascension, by the short count of Sri Yukteswar's Holy Science.
I hold no rapier in my hand, just thoughts to share. and harbor no bad intentions.
thanks for the info regarding age of epics and etymological perspective. 
I will not insist on clicking the thanks button

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## Manas

duhastmish said:


> i think its also one of those mythological weapon . the desi peanut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x



*It seems "desi peanut" weapon was created at your home, that's pretty much along expected lines .*

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## Joe Shearer

I never thought I would meet my match, at least not on a Pakistani defence forum, and it is with astonishment that I murmur to myself, "Tomare bodhibe je, Gokule barichhe shay!"

Ah, well! All that is left is to sing, in tune with the sergeant and his squad from the Pirates of Penzance, "An Asura's lot is not a nappy one!"



Alternative said:


> Joe Shearer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pair of war quoits - Throwing Blades and Sticks - Object 1906.64.1 Pitt Rivers Museum
> 
> Your explanation of how to throw a quoit is so convincing that I am left doubting the evidence of my eyes. Let us go on to other things, O Pale Galileean!
> 
> On steel, too, after flirting with disaster, you have an all-too-plausible explanation for things, and here it is below:
> In fact I had not asked any question.... but was trying to be eloquent...in phrasing my post
> 
> Ah, those were rhetorical questions! I see!!
> 
> One can only retire baffled and frustrated fury, like a bull in full charge who is informed that he is colour-blind and the cape he is charging is actually bright green in colour........
> 
> My post reproduced below:
> 
> 
> If 2000 or 3000 years ago, any body to writ down about how to forge steel blade? how to gauge temperature? how to carbonize steel? then above description will hold true.
> Color of heated metal or alloys were observed to estimate temperature........ hot blade dipped in blood(fluid having high carbon content??) to give extra strength to steel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And all that careful explanation about Wootz and the origin of the word Damascus in steel-making (not from the city, naturally, but from the Arab word 'damas') down the drain, considered irrelevant; the person making statements and asking questions simply trying to extend things in order to give himself something to do!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Alternative said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no excess air or something, just that I don't have enough time to respond/post, hence have to resort to bits. Please bear with me, its been 19 years since I left college.
> 
> This forty-years-since-he-left-college collection of rusty memories and moth-eaten information graciously declares that he will bear with you. Like a Maruti 800 agrees to bear with a Ferrari.
> Thanks for your kind words, and yours words of advice duly noted.
> 
> Hah! Just look at him, folks! trying to get me to drop my guard with humility and stuff! Thinks I'll fall for it.
> 
> Now continuing from my last post, Chakram of Sikhs(War Quoits) of
> Larger sizes, The throwing technique was that I came to know, used a round 'stick' (of sufficient strength and diameter)same way as index finger for short chakram. That technique in my view, can generate much more power than Frisbee throw.
> Spin and speed determine the efficacy of chakram, and i reckon that, Frisbee style throw of large chakram would not generate enough spin and speed, against an opponent at 70-80 meters, to cause serious damage (sever a limb or head etc.).
> I am not aware of the practice of Buddha Dal Nihangs.
> 
> I remember seeing paintings (may be in Lahore Museum, or history books, or in both), a number of chakram, 'tied' with waist belt of sikh sardars on their left side.
> 
> If I could interject weakly into this torrent of words, that's so he could draw it right-handed, for a throwing quoit like action
> 
> When sikhs wanted to carry a concealed weapon even when in peace,(as a part of their religious obligation..?), small chakram was carried within layers of turban. one may carry it in battle in turban on his choosing.
> 
> The finger technique of throwing small chakram is not that slow which you seem to infer. for example, when you learn to punch, you closely follow movement of your hand, twist of wrist, bend of knuckle, throw of shoulder, sway of hip etc. but when you have mastered the form, after 3 or 4 year of practice all these stages are hardly precept-able to you or onlooker. you can throw 4 or 5 punches per second easily.
> 
> Similarly, you will be amazed with the results if you persist with practice and try to better your technique, spin swirl and throw in one go.
> ...to be taken up shortly....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's be quite clear;
> 
> 
> 
> Alternative said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is already 311 Dwapara in ascension, by the short count of Sri Yukteswar's Holy Science.
> 
> I hold no rapier in my hand, just thoughts to share.
> 
> Note you have spotted clue; note to myself: guy's a tough, unrelenting customer!
> 
> and harbor no bad intentions.
> 
> thanks for the info regarding age of epics and etymological perspective.
> 
> I will not insist on clicking the thanks button
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My dear chap, a bloke wouldn't have thanked others more than a thousand times without discovering the '''thanks" button!
Click to expand...

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

*@divya*

who knows these incantations to summon these weapons???


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## Alternative

*Joe Sheare*r



> My dear chap, a bloke wouldn't have thanked others more than a thousand times without discovering the '''thanks" button!



In this you seemed to have missed the clue. Your previous post 


> Ah, so!
> 
> I knew that dratted thing stood for something important.
> 
> Thanks for the tip. It makes things so clear now.



so my response was


> I will not insist on clicking the thanks button


my attempt was to make a light comment in the context, and no way was intended as a rebuke or insulting. I have been on this forum for more than 3 year (member for a little more than one year), though rarely posting, and know the contribution of senor members.


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> Alternative said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all that careful explanation about Wootz and the origin of the word Damascus in steel-making (not from the city, naturally, but from the Arab word 'damas') down the drain, considered irrelevant; the person making statements and asking questions simply trying to extend things in order to give himself something to do!!!
> 
> this is simply incorrect. if you would follow the order of my posts then it should be sufficiently clear. I only answered/posted in the context of quoted messages.
> Your contributions are acknowledged, but I wanted to clear impression (or confusion) that I was asking question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hah! Just look at him, folks! trying to get me to drop my guard with humility and stuff! Thinks I'll fall for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What on earth I would do with your guard down? hex to the bone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This forty-years-since-he-left-college collection of rusty memories and moth-eaten information graciously declares that he will bear with you. Like a Maruti 800 agrees to bear with a Ferrari.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are too generous in showering praise. I know really myself in the larger context of things, where do I stand, what I am worth...... nada, zilich, shunaay, zero....
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Joe Shearer

I sometimes get the feeling of getting too clever by half.

The comment about surely having known what to do with the 'Thanks' button doesn't belong there in logical sequence. It was a musing about your original remark, a sort of harking back. I got the sequence quite OK, and there's nothing insulting nor rebuking in what you said: it was excessively solemn, perhaps, a little smug, but not unbearably so, and quite acceptable on the whole, acceptable enough for me to try a little mock-humility.

That vein has been played out; entirely. It now has the demerit of putting you on the defensive, seeking to explain things to me which were entirely understood and accepted. Putting you on the defensive is entirely undesirable, so it stops here, now.

Please read my next post continuously with this.



Alternative said:


> *Joe Sheare*r
> 
> 
> 
> In this you seemed to have missed the clue. Your previous post
> 
> 
> so my response was
> 
> my attempt was to make a light comment in the context, and no way was intended as a rebuke or insulting. I have been on this forum for more than 3 year (member for a little more than one year), though rarely posting, and know the contribution of senor members.



I'm tempted to play for the laughs by deliberately misunderstanding your typo and asking why we are all suddenly Latino, but on the other hand, till you understand that most of what I write in a certain vein is intended to be funny, it may be better to abstain from the arcane sense of humour. 

It is better to confine myself to pointing out that senior member I am not, though a lurker for a good year or so before joining, and currently promoted to my full level of incompetence.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> Joe Shearer said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all that careful explanation about Wootz and the origin of the word Damascus in steel-making (not from the city, naturally, but from the Arab word 'damas') down the drain, considered irrelevant; the person making statements and asking questions simply trying to extend things in order to give himself something to do!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is simply incorrect. if you would follow the order of my posts then it should be sufficiently clear. I only answered/posted in the context of quoted messages.
> 
> Your contributions are acknowledged, but I wanted to clear impression (or confusion) that I was asking question.
Click to expand...


With hindsight, what was intended to sound bemused came out sounding waspish, in one sub-clause, downright churlish. That certainly was the opposite of what was intended; apologies.



Alternative said:


> Joe Shearer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hah! Just look at him, folks! trying to get me to drop my guard with humility and stuff! Thinks I'll fall for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What on earth I would do with your guard down? hex to the bone?
Click to expand...


Shield me from the One Power, was more what I feared.



Alternative said:


> Joe Shearer said:
> 
> 
> 
> This forty-years-since-he-left-college collection of rusty memories and moth-eaten information graciously declares that he will bear with you. Like a Maruti 800 agrees to bear with a Ferrari.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are too generous in showering praise. I know really myself in the larger context of things, where do I stand, what I am worth...... nada, zilich, shunaay, zero....
Click to expand...


We shall see, we shall see.........

Meanwhile, there is a thread, worded something like "India tells China: Kashmir is to us what Tibet, Taiwan are to you", to which I would invite your attention. Do take a look at it; if you find something worth remarking upon, it would be interesting to read it.

With warm regards,


----------



## Alternative

Now 'issues' resloved, I will continue from the my post no. 124.
Joe Shearer


> Your explanation of how to throw a quoit is so convincing that I am left doubting the evidence of my eyes. Let us go on to other things, O Pale Galileean!



(Ignoring Pale Galileean and what ever he done) In Urdu and similarly in Punjabi throwing a chakra is said "Chaker Chalana" same like 'teer chalana' as against throwing a stone will be 'phater phankna' meaning, implied use of a machine or contraption. in this case use of simple stick.
I have always held that small chakram is to be thrown with finger technique and larger chakram with use of stick, then I saw a video on youtube (already mention in previous posts) and was surprised with the frisbee throw.
It is one thing to split a melon at twenty feet then an armed opponent at 70-80 meters away.
I declared this technique wrong, rather prematurely, may be, this was quite handy by cavalry at shorter distances, like a hand gun. your following observation quite handsomely fits scenario.



> If I could interject weakly into this torrent of words, that's so he could draw it right-handed, for a throwing quoit like action



Now, Furthering the discussion, the most important part
Joe Shearer


> If As a matter of fact, the technique that you have described as 'correct', the finger-launched technique, is exactly that used for the Sudarshan. So it is a little confused, more than a little confused, to say that that the Sikh Chakram is not to be confused with the Sudarshana.



Your old post quoted above, and from it I can deduce that you hold the Sikh Chakram is the same(in physical design, function, wielding techniques etc) as Sudarshan Charkra with out the garb of Myth.
Is my inference correct? if so, i am utterly surprised beyond your belief.
For me, both of them are quite different designs, specs, wielding techniques etc., that is, two altogether different weapons.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> Now 'issues' resloved, I will continue from the my post no. 124.
> Joe Shearer
> 
> 
> (Ignoring Pale Galileean Google the phrase or google Swinburne ;-) just joking, btw!and what ever he done) In Urdu and similarly in Punjabi throwing a chakra is said "Chaker Chalana" same like 'teer chalana' as against throwing a stone will be 'phater phankna' meaning, implied use of a machine or contraption. in this case use of simple stick.
> I have always held that small chakram is to be thrown with finger technique and larger chakram with use of stick, then I saw a video on youtube (already mention in previous posts) and was surprised with the frisbee throw.
> It is one thing to split a melon at twenty feet then an armed opponent at 70-80 meters away.
> I declared this technique wrong, rather prematurely, may be, this was quite handy by cavalry at shorter distances, like a hand gun. your following observation quite handsomely fits scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, Furthering the discussion, the most important part
> Joe Shearer
> 
> 
> Your old post quoted above, and from it I can deduce that you hold the Sikh Chakram is the same(in physical design, function, wielding techniques etc) as Sudarshan Charkra with out the garb of Myth.
> Is my inference correct? if so, i am utterly surprised beyond your belief.
> For me, both of them are quite different designs, specs, wielding techniques etc., that is, two altogether different weapons.



We are both on equally treacherous ground here; watch out!

We are comparing an existing weapon, with recorded use (albeit of varying effectiveness) with a mythical weapon. It is obvious that a 'comparison' cannot exist between a fact and a non-fact. Vishnu is described with his Shankha-Chakra-Gada-Padma; does that mean that we need to speculate on the physical existence of a four-armed human being? Obviously not; four arms on a being was to indicate the superhuman nature of that being, not surely to be taken seriously to the extent of seeking to work out the ergonomics of using four arms and hands as against two.

So a comparison between the Sudarshan and the Sikh Chakram must necessarily be between recognisable attributes of the two objects. It cannot be a blind and unreasoning literal comparison between the two in terms of their full and definitive description, as we will then be in the trap of comparing a Sikh Chakram like weapon with the precision-guided-missile effects of the Sudarshan, along with a loiter mode with a built-in stellar navigation suite. No literal comparison is possible, or we have to visualise a Sikh casting his quoit to hover in front of the Sun at a sufficient distance from the Earth to eclipse the Sun altogether. 

The same logic applies to considering the divine third attribute, the Gada. We do not know what this celestial mace did. We do know that a set of exercise weapons exists, even till today, called Gada, just like the Lord's weapon; we do know the standard exercise suites intended to bring proficiency in wielding the Gada, not for martial prowess. So we can surmise that the divine Gada at least did what the normal Gada does; we assume that for both weapons.

My comparison is intended to say only that the Sudarshan Chakra, carried on Krishna's forefinger, was presumably thrown like a light Sikh quoit, judging by how the similar-sized historical object was wielded. The comparison is not intended to be dragged off its chariot and brutally clubbed by its opponents on the grounds of blasphemy.


----------



## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> We are both on equally treacherous ground here; watch out!
> 
> We are comparing an existing weapon, with recorded use (albeit of varying effectiveness) with a mythical weapon. It is obvious that a 'comparison' cannot exist between a fact and a non-fact. Vishnu is described with his Shankha-Chakra-Gada-Padma; does that mean that we need to speculate on the physical existence of a four-armed human being? Obviously not; four arms on a being was to indicate the superhuman nature of that being, not surely to be taken seriously to the extent of seeking to work out the ergonomics of using four arms and hands as against two.
> 
> So a comparison between the Sudarshan and the Sikh Chakram must necessarily be between recognisable attributes of the two objects. It cannot be a blind and unreasoning literal comparison between the two in terms of their full and definitive description, as we will then be in the trap of comparing a Sikh Chakram like weapon with the precision-guided-missile effects of the Sudarshan, along with a loiter mode with a built-in stellar navigation suite. No literal comparison is possible, or we have to visualise a Sikh casting his quoit to hover in front of the Sun at a sufficient distance from the Earth to eclipse the Sun altogether.
> 
> The same logic applies to considering the divine third attribute, the Gada. We do not know what this celestial mace did. We do know that a set of exercise weapons exists, even till today, called Gada, just like the Lord's weapon; we do know the standard exercise suites intended to bring proficiency in wielding the Gada, not for martial prowess. So we can surmise that the divine Gada at least did what the normal Gada does; we assume that for both weapons.
> 
> My comparison is intended to say only that the Sudarshan Chakra, carried on Krishna's forefinger, was presumably thrown like a light Sikh quoit, judging by how the similar-sized historical object was wielded. The comparison is not intended to be dragged off its chariot and brutally clubbed by its opponents on the grounds of blasphemy.



I started commenting on Sudarshana Chakra on the premises that their are certain mythological weapons mention by thread starter that were in fact actual weapons but later given mythological status.
By 'mythological status I mean, that the effectiveness, use, functions etc. are blown out of proportion/world/imagination and include all attribute mentioned by you.
I think or rather hold that there was a weapon, like all the weapons we ordinary humans had, (like sword, lance, axe, bow arrows etc., no fancy stuff), a type of chakra, which was not like the Sikh Chakra (this title being used indicative purpose only)........ Later given attributes like ..... bow and arrows .. factual use and mythical use.


----------



## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> We are both on equally treacherous ground here; watch out!
> 
> .



Oh... I feel now that you miss read my post no.133, later part., reproduced below, with highlighted colored sentence. 



> Your old post quoted above, and from it I can deduce that you hold the Sikh Chakram is the same(in physical design, function, wielding techniques etc) as *Sudarshan Charkra with out the garb of Myth.*
> Is my inference correct? if so, i am utterly surprised beyond your belief.
> For me, both of them are quite different designs, specs, wielding techniques etc., that is, two altogether different weapons.



On rereading above mine post, I think it can cause the confusion that I used your post without properly clearing bases of my comparison.
Oh.... terrible mix up, I am afraid. Me and my precise writing.


----------



## Enigma

Alternative said:


> Many weapons mentioned were actual weapons used in ancient times, later given mythological status. for example, Sudarshana Chakra........ can any one of you tell me the technique to throw this chakra?????
> Just remember there is another form of chakra still practised by Sikhs of Punjab.



not much idea abt the chakras, 

but u see the similarity in the "shuriken" a four pointed star kind of weapon used by Ninjas.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Enigma said:


> not much idea abt the chakras,
> 
> but u see the similarity in the "shuriken" a four pointed star kind of weapon used by Ninjas.



To be truthful, no, I don't see any similarity with the shuriken, which is an extension of a throwing knife. It uses its blades. The Quoit is a different weapon altogether, and uses the edge.

Shuriken were always small sized, and handily stored on the person; Chakras were of all sizes and stored variously, on the hat, or on loops on the belt.


----------



## Alternative

Sudarshana Chakra is a type of 'returning' weapons i.e., return to thrower if make no contact to the target. It is quit different from Sikh Chakram in it design, which is, when thrown goes straight(we will leave aside Zena's Chakra). 
Difference in form can be readily appreciated if we compare, much older idols of hindu diety vishu with little older relief carving in stone or idols, paintings.

Reprsentation of Sudarshana Chakra can be found at the following links
Sudar?ana chakra - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre, Seventh Centry relief found at combodia. Translate the page in english as it is in Spanish.
Stela with a four-armed Vishnu [India, Punjab] (68.46) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art10th11th century Punjab, sandstone. 
God Harihara (half Vishnu, half Shiva), India, 9th century | Flickr - Photo Sharing! 9th Centry, India.
This chakra was held at edge in vertical position with fingers and thumb and thrown with spinning motion.

Now, their are finger spinning chakras of two types, as I have observed, one is the Sikh Chakra(small size) like this;Sudarshana Chakra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
we all ready know a lot about.
Another one is





Please note that the first digit of finger is only visible, aperture is wide enough to accommodate the finger and no more. Truly mythical depiction.
Between, I recently viewed an image of an amulet (persumbly held by Obama) floating around on Net of Narasimha, 4th avatar, holding a chakra in 'palm' of his hand. 
Being older means more close to origin, my take on matter at hand, therefore, Sudarshana Chakra (without the garb of myth, as an ordinary weapon) was different then Sikh Chakra and predates it.

I would appreciate much for any comments or info, whether myth or historical,(please don't repeat already posted in thread).
I might be totally wrong on this.


----------



## Awesome

divya said:


> there is a myth that there was a secreat society which was formed by asoka to preseve the knowledge which could be dangerous to men in coming times. it is said that the group still remains hidden preserving this knowledge


On the TV show, Sanctuary... They showed that Kaali is actually a weapon that was wielded by Durga.

Kaali is shown to be an enormous arachnid being and Durga as a tiny one. 

Durga is shown as a symbiotic arachnid being that attaches itself to a host, giving the host the power to control Kaali. Kaali has the capability of disrupting the magnetic fields of the earth causing Earthquakes.

The Durga spider is guarded by a secret society in India.

Oh and weirdly enough, Durga is a dude and Kaali is in love with him so thats why she obeys the hosts every command. I'm pretty sure you can fit the rest of the myth somehow into their version except for this last bit. I was like didn't anyone tell the writers, Durga is a girl's name?


----------



## KS

Asim Aquil said:


> On the TV show, Sanctuary... They showed that Kaali is actually a weapon that was wielded by Durga.
> 
> Kaali is shown to be an enormous arachnid being and Durga as a tiny one.
> 
> Durga is shown as a symbiotic arachnid being that attaches itself to a host, giving the host the power to control Kaali. Kaali has the capability of disrupting the magnetic fields of the earth causing Earthquakes.
> 
> The Durga spider is guarded by a secret society in India.
> 
> Oh and weirdly enough, Durga is a dude and Kaali is in love with him so thats why she obeys the hosts every command. I'm pretty sure you can fit the rest of the myth somehow into their version except for this last bit. I was like didn't anyone tell the writers, Durga is a girl's name?



 what are you talking about ??

AFAIK Durga Devi is an incarnation of Godess Shakthi/Parvathi and Kali Devi too is a similar incarnation for the same purpose of killing demons/asuras.


----------



## blackops

Last paragraph mein to kutch bhi samajh nahi aya and am a worshiper of maa durga and i knew she is a female and kali maa etc etc are her diferent avtars


Asim Aquil said:


> On the TV show, Sanctuary... They showed that Kaali is actually a weapon that was wielded by Durga.
> 
> Kaali is shown to be an enormous arachnid being and Durga as a tiny one.
> 
> Durga is shown as a symbiotic arachnid being that attaches itself to a host, giving the host the power to control Kaali. Kaali has the capability of disrupting the magnetic fields of the earth causing Earthquakes.
> 
> The Durga spider is guarded by a secret society in India.
> 
> Oh and weirdly enough, Durga is a dude and Kaali is in love with him so thats why she obeys the hosts every command. I'm pretty sure you can fit the rest of the myth somehow into their version except for this last bit. I was like didn't anyone tell the writers, Durga is a girl's name?


----------



## Alternative

Asim Aquil said:


> On the TV show, Sanctuary... They showed that Kaali is actually a weapon that was wielded by Durga.
> 
> Kaali is shown to be an enormous arachnid being and Durga as a tiny one.
> 
> Durga is shown as a symbiotic arachnid being that attaches itself to a host, giving the host the power to control Kaali. Kaali has the capability of disrupting the magnetic fields of the earth causing Earthquakes.
> 
> The Durga spider is guarded by a secret society in India.
> 
> Oh and weirdly enough, Durga is a dude and Kaali is in love with him so thats why she obeys the hosts every command. I'm pretty sure you can fit the rest of the myth somehow into their version except for this last bit. I was like didn't anyone tell the writers, Durga is a girl's name?



Err...... a TV Show??
Myth.............Reality,...... ah, Virtual Reality...


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## Alternative

Continuing from my post no. 139, two more depictions of Sudarshana Chakra, in these cases, 
Narasimha, check the position of hold on chakra.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Asim Aquil said:


> On the TV show, Sanctuary... They showed that Kaali is actually a weapon that was wielded by Durga.
> 
> Kaali is shown to be an enormous arachnid being and Durga as a tiny one.
> 
> Durga is shown as a symbiotic arachnid being that attaches itself to a host, giving the host the power to control Kaali. Kaali has the capability of disrupting the magnetic fields of the earth causing Earthquakes.
> 
> The Durga spider is guarded by a secret society in India.
> 
> Oh and weirdly enough, Durga is a dude and Kaali is in love with him so thats why she obeys the hosts every command. I'm pretty sure you can fit the rest of the myth somehow into their version except for this last bit. I was like didn't anyone tell the writers, Durga is a girl's name?





Durga is most certainly a man's name, especially in the east.

The secret is that it can be a man's name with an addition to it, eg, Durga Charan, Durga Das, meaning at the feet of Durga, the servant of Durga; so, too, Kali Das, Kali Charan, Kali Kinkar, more or less the same meaning for 1 and 2, kinkar too means servant.

This is off-topic, but a great question, so we'll do a deal: you don't tell the mods and I won't tell the mods. 

;-) There's a difference.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> Sudarshana Chakra is a type of 'returning' weapons i.e., return to thrower if make no contact to the target. It is quit different from Sikh Chakram in it design, which is, when thrown goes straight(we will leave aside Zena's Chakra).
> Difference in form can be readily appreciated if we compare, much older idols of hindu diety vishu with little older relief carving in stone or idols, paintings.
> 
> Reprsentation of Sudarshana Chakra can be found at the following links
> Sudar?ana chakra - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre, Seventh Centry relief found at combodia. Translate the page in english as it is in Spanish.
> Stela with a four-armed Vishnu [India, Punjab] (68.46) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art10th11th century Punjab, sandstone.
> God Harihara (half Vishnu, half Shiva), India, 9th century | Flickr - Photo Sharing! 9th Centry, India.
> This chakra was held at edge in vertical position with fingers and thumb and thrown with spinning motion.
> 
> Now, their are finger spinning chakras of two types, as I have observed, one is the Sikh Chakra(small size) like this;Sudarshana Chakra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> we all ready know a lot about.
> Another one is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that the first digit of finger is only visible, aperture is wide enough to accommodate the finger and no more. Truly mythical depiction.
> Between, I recently viewed an image of an amulet (persumbly held by Obama) floating around on Net of Narasimha, 4th avatar, holding a chakra in 'palm' of his hand.
> Being older means more close to origin, my take on matter at hand, therefore, Sudarshana Chakra (without the garb of myth, as an ordinary weapon) was different then Sikh Chakra and predates it.
> 
> I would appreciate much for any comments or info, whether myth or historical,(please don't repeat already posted in thread).
> I might be totally wrong on this.



I have nothing to add to what I have already posted in thread, but do want to say that these are truly entertaining insights. Personally, I don't believe that any chakra can be made a returning chakra; as you already know, the only returning instrument is a boomerang, which depends on its aerofoil section and the sharp twist imparted on delivery for the returning effect. The returning chakra must be counted as myth, IMHO.

If you consider the Narasimha chakras as older, a very interesting observation by itself, then those two statues rather decidedly favour the end-on grip of the chakra that I have been suggesting.

Considering the Narasimha chakras as older is interesting because while the avatar may be older, its depiction is of quite an independent matter. Not all Narasimha avatars depictions predate Vamana avatars depictions, although Narasimha precedes Vamana. 



Alternative said:


> Continuing from my post no. 139, two more depictions of Sudarshana Chakra, in these cases,
> Narasimha, check the position of hold on chakra.



Fascinating. Very interesting in the wide variation of depictive styles.


----------



## duhastmish

Alternative said:


> Continuing from my post no. 139, two more depictions of Sudarshana Chakra, in these cases,
> Narasimha, check the position of hold on chakra.



dude that picture is not about chakra or any thing else. 

*it looks as if kinky net **** was invented in india too .

animal ****. *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## KS

duhastmish said:


> dude that picture is not about chakra or any thing else.
> 
> *it looks as if kinky net **** was invented in india too .
> 
> animal ****. *



Please be aware that you are commenting on Gods. Thanks


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## duhastmish

Karthic Sri said:


> Please be aware that you are commenting on Gods. Thanks



appologies but - i just said the obvious , that look like a spider monkey saluting while fixing some ..of his......female friend. 

there is nothing wrong for saying whats obvious out there. i didn't say its right or wrong . 

nor i was trying to dent the Hinduism's image.

And whats wrong in having sex ? its natural .....god made us to do it.


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## KS

duhastmish said:


> appologies but - i just said the obvious , that look like a spider monkey saluting while fixing some ..of his......female friend.
> 
> there is nothing wrong for saying whats obvious out there. i didn't say its right or wrong .
> 
> nor i was trying to dent the Hinduism's image.
> 
> And whats wrong in having sex ? its natural .....god made us to do it.



You could have asked someone more knowledgeable about it.

Its the killing of the asura Iranyakasipu by the Lord Narasimha (lion headed and human bodied) by tearing out his bowels placing him on his thigh.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## metro

Karthic Sri said:


> You could have asked someone more knowledgeable about it.
> 
> Its the killing of the asura Iranyakasipu by the Lord Narasimha (lion headed and human bodied) by tearing out his bowels placing him on his thigh.



One half of his body was of a lion and the other half of a man. He had matted hair on his head, large moustaches on the face and terrible teeth in the mouth. His paws had terrible nails on them. Hiranyakashipu remembered his first death wish, "To be killed by some one who is neither human nor beast." It was also the twilight hour, neither day nor night, the second death wish. The demon king hit Narasimha with his mace but Narasimha brushed it aside swiftly. It was twilight and Narasimha caught hold of the demon Hiranyakashipu.

He sat on the threshold of the court room, placed the body of the demon on his thighs, and pierced his nails into the body of the demon and broke open his stomach. The demon was killed on the spot in a moment. The place was neither inside nor outside. This was Hiranyakashipus third death wish. Lord Narasimha was furious and roared. However, he was pacified when Prahlad touched his feet and goddess Lakshmi also tried to cool him. Lord Narasimha then made Prahlad the King.

Story of the 4th Avatar of Lord Vishnu, Narasimha, Hiranyakashipu (the brother of Hiranyaksha who was killed by the Varaha Avatar of Lord Vishnu) wanted to take revenge on the devotees and in particular on Lord Vishnu, fourth Avatar, Lord Vishnu, Nar


----------



## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> I have nothing to add to what I have already posted in thread, but do want to say that these are truly entertaining insights. Personally, I don't believe that any chakra can be made a returning chakra; as you already know, the only returning instrument is a boomerang, which depends on its aerofoil section and the sharp twist imparted on delivery for the returning effect. The returning chakra must be counted as myth, IMHO.
> 
> If you consider the Narasimha chakras as older, a very interesting observation by itself, then those two statues rather decidedly favour the end-on grip of the chakra that I have been suggesting.
> 
> Considering the Narasimha chakras as older is interesting because while the avatar may be older, its depiction is of quite an independent matter. Not all Narasimha avatars depictions predate Vamana avatars depictions, although Narasimha precedes Vamana.
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating. Very interesting in the wide variation of depictive styles.



While googling the 'Budha Dal' (as mentioned in your post), I found the following Gem. Durga with a stick spinning chakra (Sikh Chakra).

Now, this is the intermediate "link", the conversion between the 'stick throw method' and the 'finger throw method'. this is where I think the artists/sculptors took out the 'stick' from chakram and put the 'finger' in.







The evolution of Chakram as seem to me is as follow;





Being the most Old, the original Sudarshana Chakra






Sudarshana Chakra, 4 or 5 centries later.





Sudarshana Chakra is some how transformed into Sikh Chakram (Why?) with a stick assisted spin.





Some depictions show this, above, chakra (Sikh Chakram) as Sudarshana Chakra.





Some depictions show the above chakra as Sudarshana Chakra. In my opinion this is pure mythical adaptation.

As I understand, in the days of yore, certain class of artisans undertook the construction of idols, reliefs, etc under strict code and procedures accompanied with certain rites in strict proportions etc. with the belief that noncompliance will attract certain wrath of deities.
Any deviation in practice must be recorded somewhere?


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## Alternative

duhastmish said:


> dude that picture is not about chakra or any thing else.
> 
> *it looks as if kinky net **** was invented in india too .
> 
> animal ****. *



I dont see any **** (believe me, we Pakistani have very keen eyes for this). All I see is a kushti hold applied with telling effect.


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## Alternative

metro said:


> One half of his body was of a lion and the other half of a man. He had matted hair on his head, large moustaches on the face and terrible teeth in the mouth. His paws had terrible nails on them. Hiranyakashipu remembered his first death wish, "To be killed by some one who is neither human nor beast." It was also the twilight hour, neither day nor night, the second death wish. The demon king hit Narasimha with his mace but Narasimha brushed it aside swiftly. It was twilight and Narasimha caught hold of the demon Hiranyakashipu.
> 
> He sat on the threshold of the court room, placed the body of the demon on his thighs, and pierced his nails into the body of the demon and broke open his stomach. The demon was killed on the spot in a moment. The place was neither inside nor outside. This was Hiranyakashipus third death wish. Lord Narasimha was furious and roared. However, he was pacified when Prahlad touched his feet and goddess Lakshmi also tried to cool him. Lord Narasimha then made Prahlad the King.
> 
> Story of the 4th Avatar of Lord Vishnu, Narasimha, Hiranyakashipu (the brother of Hiranyaksha who was killed by the Varaha Avatar of Lord Vishnu) wanted to take revenge on the devotees and in particular on Lord Vishnu, fourth Avatar, Lord Vishnu, Nar



Stone relief shows that the Ashura victim, hold a sword in right hand and shield in left, in conflict of your description of 'mace'. Can you explain the variation?

Can any one identify the type/name of sword in Ashura's hand? It seem more of hoplite sword than Khanda to me?


----------



## divya

*Some of the weapons granted as a result of self mortification or Tapasya were*


Agneyastra by Agni or Fire
Brahmastra By Lord Brahma
Garudastra by Garuda(A swift which was the vehicle of Lord Vishnu)
Narayanastra by Lord Vishnu
Pashupata by Lord Shiva
Shiva Dhanush by Lord Shiva
Varunastra by Sky god
Nagastra by the Snake God
Hindu mythology also has Gods and deities which used to have more than one weapon at the time of war, like Goddess durga and Kali.
Read More...


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## divya

though this is not a weapon but i found this interesting

*Satyaloka - abode of Brahma*


Satyaloka is by 120,000,000 yojanas above Tapoloka. Thus the distance from the Sun to Satyaloka is 233,800,000 yojanas, or 1,870,400,000 miles. The Vaiku&#7751;&#7789;ha planets begin 26,200,000 yojanas (209,600,000 miles) above Satyaloka. "In the Padma Puranam it has been definitely stated that on the four sides of the spiritual sky there is four different transcendental abodes occupied by Vasudeva, Samkarshan, Pradyumna and Aniruddha respectively. So also in the material sky also they are similarly placed on all the four sides. The Vaiku&#7751;&#7789;ha sphere which is covered with spiritual water is inhabited by Vasudeva and this Vaikuntha is known as Devavatipur. Above the Satyaloka there is Vishnuloka where Sankarshan resides. In the middle of the Ocean of Milk there is an island called Swetadwipa which is resided in by Aniruddha lying on the bed of Ananta."(Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila, Chapter 5



"Lord Brahm&#257;'s day, consisting of his 12 hours, lasts 4 billion 320 million years, and his night is of the same duration."(&#346;r&#299;mad Bh&#257;gavatam


----------



## Alternative

divya said:


> though this is not a weapon but i found this interesting
> 
> *Satyaloka - abode of Brahma*


 
Well back to your own thread, and I can see that you have gained some weight, good for you. Now can you please answer throw light on my query stipulated in post 154, that is, Stone relief shows that the Ashura victim, hold a sword in right hand and shield in left, in conflict of your description of 'mace'. Can you explain the variation?
I have seen at least 40 or so image, stone reliefs, statutes etc where Asura always hold a sword and shield, in direct contrast of description in myth of mace.


----------



## Alternative

divya said:


> *Vajra*
> 
> Vajra (Devanagari: &#2357;&#2332;&#2381;&#2352;, Chinese: &#37329;&#21083; j&#299;ng&#257;ng; Tibetan: &#3938;&#4001;&#3964;&#3851;&#3938;&#3991;&#3962;; Wylie: rdo-rje; ZWPY: dojê, Japanese: Kongou &#37329;&#21083 is a Sanskrit word meaning both thunderbolt and diamond.[1] As a material device, the vajra is a ritual object, a short metal weapon - originally a kind of fist-iron like Japanese yawara - that has the symbolic nature of a diamond (it can cut any substance but not be cut itself) and that of the thunderbolt (irresistible force).



Yawara, in fact, has nothing to do with Vajra, either in form or in use.
Yawara is pencil like (fancy dumb bell shape is also common), usually made of wood, size of 4 or 5 inches, when clensed in fist both end of sticks are jutting out of palm and visible by 3 quarter of an inch. It is a striking weapon and both the edges are used to inflict damage at joints, bones and soft tissues and 'exotic' use include strikes at pressure points etc.
Has anyone read the Modesty Blaze novels by Peter O Donneled?

Vajra is primarily a amuktha weapon, i.e., that is thrown or hurled. a kind of javalin, having said this, it is pertinent to study the form to decipher as its being a ritual object or instrument of war.

In Weapon form, two kinds are readily discernible, one is single prong and other multi prong (3 or 4 or 6 or 8 etc)




and an example of multi-pronged 






Vajra is a weapon of choice of vedic god, Indra, chief of gods.

A legend tells that Shakiamuni bent the spikes/prongs of Vajra inwards, and made it into dorje, a ritual object, and that can be seen below;
(may be a philosophical way of describing the Buddhist precepts overcoming Hindu ideals)





Now Indra with vajra


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## Alternative

For detailed info on Vajra evolution, interested persons may follow the sundial_vajra_literature
A wealth of info regarding myths, legend with bits of history, of Vajra in different cultures, time periods etc. 

Few excerpts are reproduced below;
Earliest mention of Vajra, thunderbolt, in Mesopotamia,





Battle between Marduk (Bel) and the Dragon [Tiamat]. Drawn from a bas-relief from the Palace of Ashur-nasir-pal, King of Assyria, 885-860 B.C., at Nimrûd.''
British Museum. Nimrud Gallery, Nos. 28 and 29.
and .......




Marduk destroying Tiâmat, who is here represented in the form of a huge serpent.'' 
From a seal-cylinder in the British Museum, 
no. 89,589.

In Greece, There was an other wielder of Thunderbolts, Zeus,





Very interesting readings indeed, regarding exchange of myths, in Vedas, clay tablets reading etc. etc.


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## Alternative

Further continuing from my last posts regarding Vajra, I still think that a different kind of Vajra existed, that was being alluded as 'formed out of spine of a sage' and 'made terrible noise' when hurled.
I am unable to find any image till now on Web till now that can be true representative of above said description.


----------



## Joe Shearer

metro said:


> One half of his body was of a lion and the other half of a man. He had matted hair on his head, large moustaches on the face and terrible teeth in the mouth. His paws had terrible nails on them. Hiranyakashipu remembered his first death wish, "To be killed by some one who is neither human nor beast." It was also the twilight hour, neither day nor night, the second death wish. The demon king hit Narasimha with his mace but Narasimha brushed it aside swiftly. It was twilight and Narasimha caught hold of the demon Hiranyakashipu.
> 
> He sat on the threshold of the court room, placed the body of the demon on his thighs, and pierced his nails into the body of the demon and broke open his stomach. The demon was killed on the spot in a moment. The place was neither inside nor outside. This was Hiranyakashipus third death wish. Lord Narasimha was furious and roared. However, he was pacified when Prahlad touched his feet and goddess Lakshmi also tried to cool him. Lord Narasimha then made Prahlad the King.
> 
> Story of the 4th Avatar of Lord Vishnu, Narasimha, Hiranyakashipu (the brother of Hiranyaksha who was killed by the Varaha Avatar of Lord Vishnu) wanted to take revenge on the devotees and in particular on Lord Vishnu, fourth Avatar, Lord Vishnu, Nar


 


Alternative said:


> Stone relief shows that the Ashura victim, hold a sword in right hand and shield in left, in conflict of your description of 'mace'. Can you explain the variation?
> 
> Can any one identify the type/name of sword in Ashura's hand? It seem more of hoplite sword than Khanda to me?


 


Alternative said:


> Well back to your own thread, and I can see that you have gained some weight, good for you. Now can you please answer throw light on my query stipulated in post 154, that is, Stone relief shows that the Ashura victim, hold a sword in right hand and shield in left, in conflict of your description of 'mace'. Can you explain the variation?
> I have seen at least 40 or so image, stone reliefs, statutes etc where Asura always hold a sword and shield, in direct contrast of description in myth of mace.


 
I was watching this thread with half-an-eye, so to speak, from the mailed extracts that come to one of posts to threads followed, and didn't realise what was going on until just now.

An Asura is not all Asuras; I am more than surprised that you have not caught on, on your own. Or perhaps you are putting the pagans to the test. Whatever. 

As you should be well aware, given the breadth and depth of knowledge that you have demonstrated in the past, the etymology of Asura is not demon; it became so. When the tribes were together in the Oxus-Jaxartes region, a religious split of some sort seems to have occurred. This may have happened either before Zarathustra preached, or the split may, in fact, have been his preaching; he may have said the sorts of things that led to the split. Before the split, we don't know what the original majority belief was. After the split, one side held that Ahura Mazda, the 'Asura Medha', Asur-like Intelligence, was the greatest of the Iranian divinities; the other held that these were Titan-like creatures, immortals but not the ones to be worshipped, fearful even to the Gods but defeated by them in battle, and the realm of Heaven, Indraloka, occupied after the defeat. I am compressing huge masses of myth into one or two lines, with some inevitable distortion. On the Indian side of the split, the Asuras and the Suras, or Devas, the Gods, contended for power, fought bitter battles, and finally the matter was settled at the time of the Churning of the Ocean. I will not go into details of that as it is freely available, and as you are already familiar with it, beyond a shadow of doubt. On the Iranian side, amusingly, the matter was seen in a mirror; Ahura Mazda presided over the Gods, fighting the unquiet spirits, the Daiva, led by Angra Mainyu. On the Indian, Indra, unhonoured by the Iranians, but very well-known to Alternative, as the wielder of the thunderbolt, hence the successor to Dyaus Pitar, the Jupiter of the Romans, Zeus of the Greeks, or even Odin - now, hear this - the eldest/most powerful of the Aesir. Just say Aesir out loud a couple of times, think of the meaning of Odin ("furiously excited mind") and think about it. 

An aside - in the Germanic pantheon, Thor was the mighty thunder-god, presiding over the air, master of thunder and lightning, wielding the unstoppable Hammer of Thor, which destroyed its enemy and returned to Thor's hand. 

Now was that Chakra or Vajra? 

Thor was part of a trinity; the others were Odin (or Wotan), the Furious (a common characterising of this God seems to have been a restless but overpowering intelligence, so Ahura Mazda, asuric intelligence, or Wotan, the furious of mind, better, the furiously active intelligence) and Frikko, the peaceful and contemplative, worshipped by a phallus (which leads me to wonder about 'integrationists', who famously show that a merging of the Indo-Aryan and indigenous cosmogonies occurred, and one sign was the adoption of the Pasupati god, worshipped by phallic symbol worship, the linga).

Before returning to the Asura, let me also dangle before you the battle between Aesir and Vanir, and leave you to speculate how much one of the two Hindu epics was native composition in India, and how much pre-supposed this faint memory of a common myth of the battle between Asura and Vanara (I am not an expert in Sanskrit, but I do remember that the Vedic monkey was 'kapi', not 'vanara'; so where did this mythical, strong, passionate bunch of forest-dwellers, almost human, able to shift their shape, just like Odin, come from?).

Back to the asura. The Asura was not utterly beyond the 'pale'; he/she was god-like, but born in the wrong faction. Asura heroes abound in Hindu mythology; it is probably best to make this a bottle party; each one bring your own Asura story to the discussion. There were, in fact, many asuras, as many as there were devas. And the mace, as it now becomes clear, was a personal weapon of Hiranyakasipu, a powerful asura; it was not a universal asura weapon.

On a digression: there are daiva moments to be borne, in the 24 hour clock; there are also asuric moments. A boy born in that asuric moment was promptly named after the bravest of the asura warriors, the invincible prince of Lanka, who defeated Indra and was renamed by his father. For that reason, and also because of the noble poem in blank verse written by Michael Madhusudan Dutt, that boy, most Bengalis, in fact, think fairly positively about Ravana and Indrajit. It may be of passing interest that Indrajit, opposed to the lord of thunder and lightning, battled him from behind the clouds, hidden from sight.

Back to the point: a mace was Hiranyakasipu's weapon, not the generic weapon of asuras, who carried straight swords, the typical infantry sword, in battle. I cannot imagine the khadga used in battle; it was an executioner's sword, a palace guard's ceremonial weapon, used in sacrifice to decapitate hapless animals dragged there, earlier, the horse, the bull, now, the buffalo, the goat, chickens.....

Now what happens next?

PS: 'Death wish' is an inept translation; it is better rendered as 'death condition', the conditions that Hiranyakasipu demanded as a boon at the hands of the lord after satisfying him with intense prayer and meditation; that he should die at the hands of neither human nor animal, neither during the day nor the night, not inside nor outside, not through any weapon, not on the earth nor in the air; so, at the hands, not the weapon, of the Man-Lion, at the hour of sunset, on the sill of the door, pinned down on the monster's lap.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> I was watching this thread with half-an-eye, so to speak, from the mailed extracts that come to one of posts to threads followed, and didn't realise what was going on until just now.
> 
> An Asura is not all Asuras; I am more than surprised that you have not caught on, on your own. Or perhaps you are putting the pagans to the test. Whatever...............................................................................................................................................................................................................Back to the point: a mace was Hiranyakasipu's weapon, not the generic weapon of asuras, who carried straight swords, the typical infantry sword, in battle. I cannot imagine the *khadga used in battle*; it was an executioner's sword, a palace guard's ceremonial weapon, used in sacrifice to decapitate hapless animals dragged there, earlier, the horse, the bull, now, the buffalo, the goat, chickens.....



Only this one line was enough, "An Asura is not all Asuras", and I am not in to calling names of any sort of.
I mentioned the Khanda not Khadga in my post #154, reproduced below


Alternative said:


> Can any one identify the type/name of sword in Ashura's hand? It seem more of hoplite sword than Khanda to me?


Shape of sword, seen in reliefs/sculptures, it not of a Khanda, but more of a hoplite sword (Xiphos)...?



Joe Shearer said:


> Now what happens next?



I will go on to comment on Trishula.



Joe Shearer said:


> PS: 'Death wish' is an inept translation; it is better rendered as 'death condition', the conditions that Hiranyakasipu demanded as a boon at the hands of the lord after satisfying him with intense prayer and meditation; that he should die at the hands of neither human nor animal, neither during the day nor the night, not inside nor outside, not through any weapon, not on the earth nor in the air; so, at the hands, not the weapon, of the Man-Lion, at the hour of sunset, on the sill of the door, pinned down on the monster's lap.


Although, blandly told that death was inevitable, Hiranyakasipu decided to go in style.
Some time, our pride and arrogance blind us to very simple truths of mundane life.


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> Only this one line was enough, "An Asura is not all Asuras", and I am not in to calling names of any sort of.
> I mentioned the Khanda not Khadga in my post #154, reproduced below
> 
> Be cool. That purported name-calling was intended to be facetious.
> 
> Shape of sword, seen in reliefs/sculptures, it not of a Khanda, but more of a hoplite sword (Xiphos)...?
> 
> Define Khanda, as distinct from a hoplite sword. I need to understand what your definition is, before commenting.
> 
> I will go on to comment on Trishula.AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
> 
> 
> Although, blandly told that death was inevitable, Hiranyakasipu decided to go in style.
> Some time, our pride and arrogance blind us to very simple truths of mundane life.


 
True, but he tried to beat Yama by putting in what he thought would be conditions impossible to fulfil. They were not; not in fable, at least.


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> Further continuing from my last posts regarding Vajra, I still think that a different kind of Vajra existed, that was being alluded as 'formed out of spine of a sage' and 'made terrible noise' when hurled.
> I am unable to find any image till now on Web till now that can be true representative of above said description.


 
That should be a type of hammer, with a noise-making mechanism, like a bull-roarer. However, I am puzzled, as I have neither read about such a weapon, nor seen any discussion about it. Knowing you, it is quite likely that you have the sources lined up, and will not make the mistake of challenging you.


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> Define Khanda, as distinct from a hoplite sword. I need to understand what your definition is, before commenting


 
Going with the saying, a picture is worth hundred words (or thousand words...surely you can correct me), please consider the following for older or ancient form of Khanda








Blade of Khanda is thick with a central ridge and broadens right after point, and at foible blade is widest and gradually thins out till cross-guard. Design is angular.

and closer look





Latter Khandas were more straight, almost same as Sakhela. See below image.





And the Xiphos





Xiphos is more 'curvy' and tend to blade tends to widen near cross-guard.



Joe Shearer said:


> AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!


What can I do? Point deserve that much info......


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## Joe Shearer

Dear Sir, By now it should be clear to all that I will not risk an engagement with you on any issue, even a minor one, without posting a rear-guard and ensuring that the line of retreat is clear at all times. So that was why I sought clarification.

I am now sure that we are in fact talking about the same subjects.



Alternative said:


> Going with the saying, a picture is worth hundred words (or thousand words...surely you can correct me), please consider the following for older or ancient form of Khanda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blade of Khanda is thick with a central ridge and broadens right after point, and at foible blade is widest and gradually thins out till cross-guard. Design is angular.
> 
> and closer look
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latter Khandas were more straight, almost same as Sakhela. See below image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Xiphos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xiphos is more 'curvy' and tend to blade tends to widen near cross-guard.
> 
> 
> What can I do? Point deserve that much info......


 
My first comment is that while I agree with the shape and size of the weapons shown in the illustrations, I would be wary of displaying these as evidence, for the simple reason that these are miniature paintings, with dates of probably the sixteenth century or even the seventeenth (I am not an expert on miniatures, and can't distinguish between Mughal, Rajasthani, Pahari and the variations).

Secondly, you will notice in the second illustration that Durga is swinging a cavalry sword, a tulwar, while the asura wields a conventional khanda. Interesting mix of the two. I am inclined to believe that pre-Rajput swords were generally all straight, khanda swords, because I have the impression that curved swords came in with the Rajputs.

Third, there have been parallel-edged swords, swords coming to a point, and flared-tip (khanda-type) swords in Indian culture. However, I haven't seen leaf-shaped swords. On the other hand, both the Xiphos and the Spatha could be, and are leaf-shaped; that is, at the hilt, they are almost the width of the cross-guard, then there is a fine taper narrowing smoothly, until one-third of the blade, then it flares out again, very delicately and smoothly, coming to a maximum width well past the halfway mark on the length, and then closing abruptly at the tip. This leaf-shape is visible in various swords, including Xiphos, Spatha and Scandinavian blades.


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## Alternative

Alternative said:


> Can any one identify the type/name of sword in Ashura's hand? It seem more of hoplite sword than Khanda to me?





Joe Shearer said:


> Back to the point: a mace was Hiranyakasipu's weapon, not the generic weapon of asuras, who carried straight swords, the typical infantry sword, in battle. I cannot imagine the khadga used in battle; it was an executioner's sword, a palace guard's ceremonial weapon, used in sacrifice to decapitate hapless animals dragged there, earlier, the horse, the bull, now, the buffalo, the goat, chickens.....





Alternative said:


> I mentioned the Khanda not Khadga in my post #154, reproduced below
> Can any one identify the type/name of sword in Ashura's hand? It seem more of hoplite sword than Khanda to me?
> By Alternative
> Shape of sword, seen in reliefs/sculptures, it not of a Khanda, but more of a hoplite sword (Xiphos)...?





Joe Shearer said:


> Define Khanda, as distinct from a hoplite sword. I need to understand what your definition is, before commenting.





Alternative said:


> Going with the saying, a picture is worth hundred words (or thousand words...surely you can correct me), please consider the following for older or ancient form of Khanda
> 
> 
> Blade of Khanda is thick with a central ridge and broadens right after point, and at foible blade is widest and gradually thins out till cross-guard. Design is angular.
> 
> and closer look
> 
> 
> Latter Khandas were more straight, almost same as Sakhela. See below image.
> 
> 
> And the Xiphos
> 
> 
> Xiphos is more 'curvy' and tend to blade tends to widen near cross-guard.


now above last post#165



Joe Shearer said:


> Dear Sir, By now* it should be clear to all* that I will not risk an engagement with you on any issue, even a minor one, without posting a rear-guard and ensuring that the line of retreat is clear at all times. So that was why I sought clarification.
> 
> I am now sure that we are in fact talking about the same subjects.



Above is 'a string of a filaments' of main thread, reproduced, to understand the red part of above your post, but have failed to comprehend it. Your ultra defensive vyuha is to much digest. what are you trying to convey?


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> now above last post#165
> 
> 
> 
> Above is 'a string of a filaments' of main thread, reproduced, to understand the red part of above your post, but have failed to comprehend it. Your ultra defensive vyuha is to much digest. what are you trying to convey?


 
If I might stick an 18' Macedonian pike out of my ultra-defensive vyuha,
The illustrations show khandas;
They cannot be Greek Xiphos', because those were leaf-shaped, whereas khandas never were; they were always in that khanda shape;
You shouldn't have used those two illustrations, which could have been misunderstood;


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## Srinivas

I feel these mythologies around the world has some thing to do with Alien theory. I have seen documentaries which explain these is lot of similarities between the gods mentioned in the mythologies whether it is greek or indian. The time in which Aliens interacted with humans are classified as dwapara and treta yug where as when aliens are no longer in contact with humans kalug started at that point. Because of no evidence of gods existence people are more inclined not to obey dharma.

Regarding technology of the mythological weapons "*Enstein himself said that the find of cosmic particles is nothing but find of god*". Regarding sudharshana chakras it is nothing but a form of energy gained from nature and unleashing it on enemies. Use of astras is nothing but a process of transforming one form of energy into another form whether is is light or fire.


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## misterme2

divya said:


> Nopes it has been proven the presence of radioactivity but still they are searching for the reasons.....
> 
> 
> 
> *A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.
> *
> For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. *The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. *Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.
> 
> The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.
> 
> "The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.
> 
> "After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."


 


I wonder if it has anything to do with the atomic blasts by the Indian Gov't in Rajasthan ...


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> If I might stick an 18' Macedonian pike out of my ultra-defensive vyuha,
> The illustrations show khandas;
> They cannot be Greek Xiphos', because those were leaf-shaped, whereas khandas never were; they were always in that khanda shape;
> You shouldn't have used those two illustrations, which could have been misunderstood;



You have completely missed the sequence and the question initially raised by me.
I raised the question that sword in the hand of Narasimha, as visible in stone reliefs (please go to previous posts), is not Khanda but seem like a hoplite sword, Xiphos, then followed the string of post as linked by me in post no.167. 
18' pike was poked in thin air, as you can revisit your posts to decipher the sequence and meaning.


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## President Camacho

misterme2 said:


> I wonder if it has anything to do with the atomic blasts by the Indian Gov't in Rajasthan ...


 
Pokharan to Jodhpur, about 150 kilometers away. And mythology is after all, a mythology. But it is possible that some meteor, like that one in Siberia, might have struck and people talked about it.


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## MaheenRizvi

wow, I loved the read....

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

wow, I loved the read.....


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## Raja.Pakistani

there is nothing there except copy pasted articles


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> You have completely missed the sequence and the question initially raised by me.
> I raised the question that sword in the hand of Narasimha, as visible in stone reliefs (please go to previous posts), is not Khanda but seem like a hoplite sword, Xiphos, then followed the string of post as linked by me in post no.167.
> 18' pike was poked in thin air, as you can revisit your posts to decipher the sequence and meaning.



Sorry, it isn't clear what you are driving at. Your question was


> that sword in the hand of Narasimha, as visible in stone reliefs (please go to previous posts), is not Khanda but seem like a hoplite sword, Xiphos,


, ie, was it a khanda, or was it a xiphos-like sword? My answer was very simple: no, it was not a Xiphos.

As far as the red portion is concerned, it means that having found that your knowledge of Indian weapons and weapons systems is elaborate and detailed, it has become a practice to verify everything that you claim before commenting on it, either to agree or to disagree. Further, if the matter is not clear, it becomes preferable to withhold comment or to say that the answers to the question are not readily available.

Is any section not clear now?


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> My first comment is that while I agree with the shape and size of the weapons shown in the illustrations, I would be wary of displaying these as evidence, for the simple reason that these are miniature paintings, with dates of probably the sixteenth century or even the seventeenth (I am not an expert on miniatures, and can't distinguish between Mughal, Rajasthani, Pahari and the variations).


 
You asked for a definition of Khanda, I linked some suitable choices from net, to explain the shapes as I think, were adopted in different time frames.



Joe Shearer said:


> Secondly, you will notice in the second illustration that Durga is swinging a cavalry sword, a tulwar, while the asura wields a conventional khanda. Interesting mix of the two. I am inclined to believe that pre-Rajput swords were generally all straight, khanda swords, because I have the impression that curved swords came in with the Rajputs.



I have observed (with some amazement)that there is some confusion in as of, Rajput sword, (which is self evident if google search is made, the confusion that is) and it is aslo evident from above quoted post.
Khanda was the sword of choice till the Rajputs crossed their khandas with Central Asian/Persian scimitars, curved swords, which were better than in cutting and slicing (why better? a separate topic).
This experience with curved swords resulted in a new design and manufacture of a sword, that was known (or you can say named) according to its place of origin, Sarohi. Sarohi is the famed sword of Rajputs. And when all this happened?, I am not clear but it was widely used in the time of Maharana Pratap Singh, image below show Maharana with "two" Sarohis.




Sarohi is aesthetically pleasing, blade is light not that broad and curvy (like most of scimitars), comes out straight from hilt, and about half way curves upwards and blade start tapering, till the point is reached. 
Khanda also remained in use, it angular features, became more flattened, please refer to linked pictures of Khanda.



Joe Shearer said:


> Third, there have been parallel-edged swords, swords coming to a point, and flared-tip (khanda-type) swords in Indian culture. However, I haven't seen leaf-shaped swords. On the other hand, both the Xiphos and the Spatha could be, and are leaf-shaped; that is, at the hilt, they are almost the width of the cross-guard, then there is a fine taper narrowing smoothly, until one-third of the blade, then it flares out again, very delicately and smoothly, coming to a maximum width well past the halfway mark on the length, and then closing abruptly at the tip. This leaf-shape is visible in various swords, including Xiphos, Spatha and Scandinavian blades.



Yes, you are right, and all this was cause of my question;
.....shape of sword in stone reliefs(.. in the hand of victim), seemed to me as leaf-shaped.


----------



## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> Sorry, it isn't clear what you are driving at. Your question was , ie, was it a khanda, or was it a xiphos-like sword? My answer was very simple: no, it was not a Xiphos.


 
Now, your answer was;


> If I might stick an 18' Macedonian pike out of my ultra-defensive vyuha,
> The illustrations show khandas;
> They cannot be Greek Xiphos', because those were leaf-shaped, whereas khandas never were; they were always in that khanda shape;
> You shouldn't have used those two illustrations, which could have been misunderstood;


Frankly, went right over my head,........where is your supposed answer


> My answer was very simple: no, it was not a Xiphos


in it?.....
Whatever....niceties of net talk.


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> Now, your answer was;
> 
> Frankly, went right over my head,........where is your supposed answer
> 
> in it?.....
> Whatever....niceties of net talk.



Yes, boss. Just like you say, boss.


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> Yes, boss. Just like you say, boss.


It seem that you have taken it to your heart, oh my bad.


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## somebozo

the weapon which actually exists!


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> It seem that you have taken it to your heart, oh my bad.


 
Just kidding!!!!!  

I'm hugely impressed by your posts, and have got used to the idea that you are prone to stiff little lectures when someone - largely I - is marginally inaccurate. It's a feeling and a situation I haven't been familiar with for forty years, so it is more than a little amusing. 

I was just kidding, for Pete's sake!!!!


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## Alternative

somebozo said:


> the weapon which actually exists!


 
There is difference between "exits" and "exited".


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## MUHARIB

vimanas from different part of the world


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## Alternative

Now, going ahead with the de-mystification, it is now turn of Trishula.
If we connect to two separate heads of trishula, pointing in opposite directions, with a small bar, it becomes a Vajra; please refer to previous posts relating to Vajra for more info.



divya said:


> *Trishula*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trishula symbolism is polyvalent and rich.


 
It simply mean that trishula or trident or similar shape implements were prevalent in different cultures and far off places other than Sub-continent. For example, Greek and Roman mythologies, Poseidon and Neptune etc



divya said:


> The trishula is wielded by the Hindu God Shiva and is said to have been used to sever the original head of Ganesha.


In Northern Sub-continent, since about tenth century AD, Trishula was copiously used in paintings, stone reliefs, sculptures etc. as weapon of Shiva but before that period, shiva usually carried *Axe*.
But in South, it is only evident from onward of 16th or 17th century AD time span.



divya said:


> The three points have various meanings and significance, and, common to Hindu religion, have many stories behind them. They are commonly said to represent various trinitiescreation, maintenance and destruction, past, present and future, the three guna.



So, (tri)three (shulas)spears, can be associated with any thing having any relation to 3; but it is not explained why? either the weapon was designed keeping in view the theory or theory was applied to existing weapon.



divya said:


> When looked upon as a weapon of Shiva, the trishula is said to destroy the three worlds:
> 
> 
> 
> the physical world, the world of the forefathers (representing culture drawn from the past) and the world of the mind (representing the processes of sensing and acting).
> 
> 
> 
> The three worlds are supposed to be destroyed by Shiva into
> a single non-dual plane of existence, that is bliss alone.
Click to expand...


Interesting allegory drawn, in above post.
Usual inference is that the Kundalini when reaches and joins Shiva in Saharra Chakra, state of samadhi is reached, three worlds, past present and future, cease to exit, veil of duality is removed etc. and where we could fit Trishula in here????



divya said:


> In the human body, the trishula also represents the place where the three main nadis, or energy channels (ida, pingala and shushmana) meet at the brow. Shushmana, the central one, continues upward to the 7th chakra, or energy center, while the other two end at the brow, there the 6th chakra is located. The trisula's central point represents Shushmana, and that is why it is longer than the other two, representing ida and pingala.


As of Red part; it should be read as "places", three nadis meet at three different places.
As of Green part; the two, Ida and Pingala don't end at brow or Ajna Chakra.
As of Blue: trishulas with straight(non-curvey) equal length blades were also prevalents, the comparing the relative lengths is funny and out of place.

Trishula was primarily a weapon of forest dwellers, useful in defense/fight off against wild animals particularly efficient against tigers; Its implied use against human opponents emphasis blocking, parrying and disarming, stabbing, slashing etc.
I have not come up with a single reference of its usage in actual battlefield. I know that it was (still now) carried by Naga Sadhus in general but seriously doubt its (trishula) efficacy against well equipped, armored opponent in battlefield.


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## Break the Silence

*One of the great thread in terms of Discussion and Debate.. Well I am very thankful to thread Starter- Ms. Divya along with Mr. Joe shearer whom I always admire by heart for his remarks and all other posters.
Now... its for Mr. Alternative for his solid debate points and the way he asked for the clarifications... I am totally impressed by his cross questioning. Thank you!
Best Regards.*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## divya

*Tandava*​

T&#257;&#7751;&#7693;ava or T&#257;&#7751;&#7693;ava n&#7771;tya, the divine art form, is a dance performed by the god Shiva, who is revered by Hindus. According to Hindu mythology, Shiva&#8217;s Tandava is a vigorous dance that is the source of the cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution. While the Rudra Tandava depicts his violent nature, first as the creator and later as the destroyer of the universe, even of death itself; the Ananda Tandava depicts him as the enjoyer of his creation - the universe. Shiva as Nataraja (lit. "Lord of dance") is considered the supreme lord of dance.[1]
The Tandava takes its name from Tandu, the attendant of Shiva, who instructed Bharata (author of the Natya Shastra) in the use of Angaharas and Karanas, modes of the Tandava at Shiva's order. Some scholars consider that Tandu himself must have been the author of an earlier work on the dramatic arts, which was incorporated into the Natya Shastra.[2] Indeed, the classical arts of dance, music and song may derive from the mudras and rituals of Shaiva tradition.


Some of the 108 Karanas of Nataraja at Kadavul Hindu Temple, on Kauai, Hawaii. It is one of the few complete collections in existence, commissioned by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami in the 1980s. Each sculpture is about 12 inches tall. Chidambaram Temple is also known to have a complete set.
The 32 Angaharas and 108 Karanas are discussed by Bharata in Chapter 4 of the Natya Shastra, Tandava Lakshanam[3]. Karana is the combination of hand gestures with feet to form a dance posture. Angahara is composed of seven or more Karanas[4]. 108 karanas included in Tandava could be employed in the course of dance, fight, and personal combats and in other special movements like strolling.
The dance is a pictorial allegory of the five principal manifestations of eternal energy: [5]
'Shrishti' - creation, evolution
'Sthiti' - preservation, support
'Samhara' - destruction, evolution
'Tirobhava' - illusion
'Anugraha' - release, emancipation, grace
Thus Tandava symbolizes the cosmic cycles of creation and destruction, as well as the daily rhythm of birth and death.


Rudra Tandava: A dancer depicting Shiva kicking Yama, the god of Death.
Tandava, as performed in the sacred dance-drama of southern India, has vigorous, brisk movements. Performed with joy, the dance is called Ananda Tandava. Performed in a violent mood, the dance is called Rudra Tandava. In the Hindu texts, at least seven types of Tandava are found: Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samhara Tandava, Kali (Kalika) Tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. [4] However, some people believe that there are 16 types of Tandava.
How many various dances of Shiva are known to His worshipers I cannot say. No doubt the root idea behind all of these dances is more or less one and the same, the manifestation of primal rhythmic energy. Whatever the origins of Shiva's dance, it became in time the clearest image of the activity of God which any art or religion can boast of. --Ananda Coomaraswamy[6]
The dance performed by Goddess Parvati in response to Shiva's Tandava is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic. Some scholars consider Lasya to be the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds, Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya. [7]
The Hindu scriptures narrate various occasions when Shiva or other gods have performed the Tandava. When Sati (first wife of Lord Shiva, who was reborn as Parvati) jumped into the Agni Kunda (sacrificial fire) in Daksha's Yagna and gave up her life, Shiva is said to have performed the Rudra Tandava to express his grief and anger. The Shivapradosha stotra says when Shiva performs the Sandhya Tandava, the other gods like Brahma, Vishnu, Sarasvati, Lakshmi and Indra play musical instruments and sing Shiva's praises. [4] Ganesha, the son of Shiva, is depicted as Ashtabhuja tandavsa nritya murtis (Eight armed form of Ganesha dancing the Tandava) in temple sculptures. [8]. The Bhagavata Purana talks of Krishna dancing his Tandava on the head of the serpent Kaliya [9]. According to Jain traditions, Indra is said to have performed the Tandava in honour of Rishabha (Jain tirthankar) on the latter's birth. [10].
Creation is made possible by the goodness of Vi&#7779;&#7751;u, and when it requires to be destroyed, Lord &#346;iva does it by the t&#257;&#7751;&#7693;avan&#7771;tya.[1]
There are 7 types of Tandava. Namely Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samara Tandava, Kaali tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. There are few people who believa that there are 16 types of Tandava. Tandava has vigourous, brisk movement. The dance performed by Goddess Parvathi is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic also. Some scholars call Lasya as the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds. Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya.


----------



## KS

Alternative said:


> In Northern Sub-continent, since about tenth century AD, Trishula was copiously used in paintings, stone reliefs, sculptures etc. as weapon of Shiva but before that period, shiva usually carried *Axe*.
> *But in South, it is only evident from onward of 16th or 17th century AD time span.*


 
No Sir, If you look at the ceiling/wall paintings in the Brihadeeshwara Temple in Tanjore there are abundant references to the Trishulam. And the Great temple at Tanjore was built at the starting of the 11 th century during the reign of Raja Raja Chola.


----------



## Alternative

Karthic Sri said:


> No Sir, If you look at the ceiling/wall paintings in the Brihadeeshwara Temple in Tanjore there are abundant references to the Trishulam. And the Great temple at Tanjore was built at the starting of the 11 th century during the reign of Raja Raja Chola.


 
Temple itself was built at the start of 11th century, but point to note is; the typical wall painting technique, Thanjavur Oviyam, dates 1600CE only.


----------



## KS

Alternative said:


> Temple itself was built at the start of 11th century, but point to note is; the typical wall painting technique, Thanjavur Oviyam, dates 1600CE only.


 
No Sir, What I meant is even the sculptures that are in the inner walls,pillars have the Trishul in them. I should have mentioned it in the previous post itself.


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## Alternative

divya said:


> *Tandava*​
> 
> T&#257;&#7751;&#7693;ava or T&#257;&#7751;&#7693;ava n&#7771;tya, the divine art form, is a dance performed by the god Shiva, who is revered by Hindus. According to Hindu mythology, Shiva&#8217;s Tandava is a vigorous dance that is the source of the cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution. While the Rudra Tandava depicts his violent nature, first as the creator and later as the destroyer of the universe, even of death itself; the Ananda Tandava depicts him as the enjoyer of his creation - the universe. Shiva as Nataraja (lit. "Lord of dance") is considered the supreme lord of dance.[1]
> The Tandava takes its name from Tandu, the attendant of Shiva, who instructed Bharata (author of the Natya Shastra) in the use of Angaharas and Karanas, modes of the Tandava at Shiva's order. Some scholars consider that Tandu himself must have been the author of an earlier work on the dramatic arts, which was incorporated into the Natya Shastra.[2] Indeed, the classical arts of dance, music and song may derive from the mudras and rituals of Shaiva tradition.
> 
> 
> Some of the 108 Karanas of Nataraja at Kadavul Hindu Temple, on Kauai, Hawaii. It is one of the few complete collections in existence, commissioned by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami in the 1980s. Each sculpture is about 12 inches tall. Chidambaram Temple is also known to have a complete set.
> The 32 Angaharas and 108 Karanas are discussed by Bharata in Chapter 4 of the Natya Shastra, Tandava Lakshanam[3]. Karana is the combination of hand gestures with feet to form a dance posture. Angahara is composed of seven or more Karanas[4]. 108 karanas included in Tandava could be employed in the course of dance, fight, and personal combats and in other special movements like strolling.
> The dance is a pictorial allegory of the five principal manifestations of eternal energy: [5]
> 'Shrishti' - creation, evolution
> 'Sthiti' - preservation, support
> 'Samhara' - destruction, evolution
> 'Tirobhava' - illusion
> 'Anugraha' - release, emancipation, grace
> Thus Tandava symbolizes the cosmic cycles of creation and destruction, as well as the daily rhythm of birth and death.
> 
> 
> Rudra Tandava: A dancer depicting Shiva kicking Yama, the god of Death.
> Tandava, as performed in the sacred dance-drama of southern India, has vigorous, brisk movements. Performed with joy, the dance is called Ananda Tandava. Performed in a violent mood, the dance is called Rudra Tandava. In the Hindu texts, at least seven types of Tandava are found: Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samhara Tandava, Kali (Kalika) Tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. [4] However, some people believe that there are 16 types of Tandava.
> How many various dances of Shiva are known to His worshipers I cannot say. No doubt the root idea behind all of these dances is more or less one and the same, the manifestation of primal rhythmic energy. Whatever the origins of Shiva's dance, it became in time the clearest image of the activity of God which any art or religion can boast of. --Ananda Coomaraswamy[6]
> The dance performed by Goddess Parvati in response to Shiva's Tandava is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic. Some scholars consider Lasya to be the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds, Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya. [7]
> The Hindu scriptures narrate various occasions when Shiva or other gods have performed the Tandava. When Sati (first wife of Lord Shiva, who was reborn as Parvati) jumped into the Agni Kunda (sacrificial fire) in Daksha's Yagna and gave up her life, Shiva is said to have performed the Rudra Tandava to express his grief and anger. The Shivapradosha stotra says when Shiva performs the Sandhya Tandava, the other gods like Brahma, Vishnu, Sarasvati, Lakshmi and Indra play musical instruments and sing Shiva's praises. [4] Ganesha, the son of Shiva, is depicted as Ashtabhuja tandavsa nritya murtis (Eight armed form of Ganesha dancing the Tandava) in temple sculptures. [8]. The Bhagavata Purana talks of Krishna dancing his Tandava on the head of the serpent Kaliya [9]. According to Jain traditions, Indra is said to have performed the Tandava in honour of Rishabha (Jain tirthankar) on the latter's birth. [10].
> Creation is made possible by the goodness of Vi&#7779;&#7751;u, and when it requires to be destroyed, Lord &#346;iva does it by the t&#257;&#7751;&#7693;avan&#7771;tya.[1]
> There are 7 types of Tandava. Namely Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samara Tandava, Kaali tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. There are few people who believa that there are 16 types of Tandava. Tandava has vigourous, brisk movement. The dance performed by Goddess Parvathi is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic also. Some scholars call Lasya as the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds. Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya.


 
Now, this post refer to an art form, not to a weapon, you may want to open another thread for mythical or ancient martial arts forms of subcontinent.
I remember reading an article where striking similarities between bharatnataym and Pakqua (or Ba qua, one of three main 'soft' chinese martial art style) where investigated and noted.
The mythical description or actual practice tells only one performer, and primarily as a conduit of emotional energy, but is it a martial art? very hard to answer.
Does it (Tandava or Bharatnataym) have martial/combat value of application; answer is tricky one. Many human or animal gesture or movements have a combat application, many stories abound that certify this observation. Next question will be; whether combinations of movement describe a system? Does it have a mythical or historical reference of being a separate martial art?
it would be interesting to read different view points.


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## Malik Usman

You must post such things which are reality............not fairy tales.


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## justanobserver

^^
*facepalm*

Title of the thread "*Mythlogical* Weapons"


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## divya

*KHANDA*

The khanda and related Indian straight swords are generally used in Indian theatre and art to represent the weapons of the ancient period of Indian history. Some religious iconography, such as statues of Kali, feature it. Straight swords are used in the classical Kathakali dance form, and the related Indian martial art Kalarippayattu. Indian television adaptations of the Ramayana and Mahabharata epics sometimes use the khanda sword to reflect the ancient nature of the setting.The khanda can sometimes be found in Indian comics, such as the Virgin Comics title Blade of the Warrior: Kshatriya, and the Amar Chitra Katha series.

The Khanda (from Devanagari) is a sword unique to India, traditionally associated with the Rajputs, Marathas and other clans of the Kshatriya warrior class of India. The khanda is a double-edged straight sword. The blade is usually broad and quite heavy, and broadens from the hilt to the tip. The blade transforms into tip rather abruptly somewhat resembling the tips of ancient Roman swords. The hilt has a small metal spike coming out in the opposite direction which is typical of khanda. Many other straight swords around the world were primarily used for thrusting and stabbing with the tip, whereas the khanda was mainly used to hack or cleave with the edge of the blade. See Indian martial arts.

The Rajput warrior clans in perticular venetrated the khanda as a weapon of great prestige, especially during the holy festival of Dussera, when it would often be the centre of a warrior family's religious rites. The Katar, Pata and Urumi are three other examples of bladed weapons unique to India.

---------- Post added at 05:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

*Ayudhapurusha*

Ayudhapurusha is the anthropomorphic depiction of a divine weapon in Hindu art. Ayudhapurushas are sometimes considered as partial incarnates of their divine owners.[1]
The sex of the personified weapon is determined by the gender of the weapon in the Sanskrit language.[1][2] The suffix "purusha" (man) is added to masculine weapons and "devi" (goddess) to female ones.[1] The weapons Shakti, Heti (a Hatchet-like weapon) and Gada (mace), especially Kaumodaki (the mace of Vishnu), Dhanus/Dhanushya ("bow") are women. Chakra, especially Vishnu's Sudarshana Chakra (discus of Vishnu), Shankha ("conch"), Padma (lotus), Ankusha (elephant goad), Pasha (noose), Trisula (trident), vajra (thunderbolt), Khadga (sword), Danda (a sceptre or club), Bana/Shara ("arrow") and ****** (sling) are depicted male.[2][3][4]
While weapons are personified in ancient Hindu epics like the Ramayana and Mahabharata, the ayudhapurushas were depicted in sculpture starting from the Gupta era. They might be depicted as humans with the weapons against them or holding the weapon or with the weapon on their head or emerging from it. The most popular Ayudhapurushas are associated with the god Vishnu and appear in his iconography.


Textual references

The first instance in Hindu scripture where weapons are personified appears in the Hindu epic Ramayana. Two daughters of the Prajapati Daksha, Jaya and Vijaya are married to the sage Krisasva. For destruction of Asuras ("demons"), Jaya bore fifty sons, who were powerful divine weapons who could take any form. Suprabha gave birth to fifty invincible sons who were called Samharas ("destroyers"). These magical weapons were known as Shastra-devatas &#8211; gods of weapons - and were given to king Kaushika, who later became the sage Vishwamitra. The weapons served him and later his pupil Rama, an avatar of Vishnu.[5][4] The Mahabharata records at the time of the chakra-musala war, the weapons of Krishna &#8211; another avatar of Vishnu and his brother Balarama appear in human form from the heavens to watch the battle. They include Krishna's Sudarshana Chakra and Kaumodaki, and Balarama's Samvartak plough and Saunanda musala. The Duta-Vakya ("envoy's message") of Sanskrit playwright Bhasa (c. 2nd century BCE &#8211; 2nd century CE) describes that episode from the Mahabharata when Krishna goes as an envoy to Kauravas' court to broker peace between them and their cousins the Pandavas, on behalf of the latter. However, when the Kauravas try to arrest Krishna, Krishna assumes his Vishvarupa (all pervading "Universal form") and summons his weapons, who appear as humans. The Ayudha purushas include the Sudarshana Chakra, the bow Saaranga, Kaumodaki, Panchajanya the conch and Nandaka the sword, elaborate descriptions of whom are found in the text. This is the only Sanskrit play that depicts the weapons on stage as humans. The Raghuvamsa of Kalidasa mentions about dwarf-like Ayudhapurushas denoting Vishnu's chakra, lotus, sword, bow and mace.[4]
[edit]


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## lem34

Nalwa said:


> I was afraid the thread was going to head into this direction.
> 
> The radioactivity could have been due to a lot of sources. And if well surveyed I am sure a lot of regions in India would come up as high in radioactivity. Not sure if ancient battles would explain it all.



I think I read somewhere that their were suggestions from scientists that Moenjodarra was the site of a nuclear explosion in ancient times. would be interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this or could tell us more on this topic


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## divya

Aryan_B said:


> I think I read somewhere that their were suggestions from scientists that Moenjodarra was the site of a nuclear explosion in ancient times. would be interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this or could tell us more on this topic



i was searching for the video of a documentary which shows the satellite image of the place which has remains of the river and there is a theory that people moved towards ganges from there after the river was gone. 

Never heard of the radioactive elements in that region though but have read a lot in texts about the radioactive soil of kurukshetra. 

And if the stupid conspiracies are to be belived India got hold of the some ancient indian texts and is working on anti gravity device which was used in pushpaka. 

lol
IndiaDaily - A secret project in Indias Defense Research Organization that can change the world as we know it  anti-gravity lifters tested in Himalayas?


----------



## Vibs

Aryan_B said:


> I think I read somewhere that their were suggestions from scientists that Moenjodarra was the site of a nuclear explosion in ancient times. would be interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this or could tell us more on this topic



SUch theories do keep coming up. People who believe refer to the Bhagwad Gita quote by Robert Oppenheimer. But no rational explanation or evidence backing such claims. For the time being, we can just take them as they aremeant to be...mythology.


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## lem34

divya said:


> i was searching for the video of a documentary which shows the satellite image of the place which has remains of the river and there is a theory that people moved towards ganges from there after the river was gone.
> 
> Never heard of the radioactive elements in that region though but have read a lot in texts about the radioactive soil of kurukshetra.
> 
> And if the stupid conspiracies are to be belived India got hold of the some ancient indian texts and is working on anti gravity device which was used in pushpaka.
> 
> lol
> IndiaDaily - A secret project in Indias Defense Research Organization that can change the world as we know it  anti-gravity lifters tested in Himalayas?



I wouldnt dissmiss everything out of hand without serious investigation. There is usually some element of truth in myths etc

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

Dont know how good some of these sources but have a read anyway:

Best Evidence?

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## Rajaraja Chola

divya said:


> Nopes it has been proven the presence of radioactivity but still they are searching for the reasons.....
> 
> 
> 
> *A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.
> *
> For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. *The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. *Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.
> 
> The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.
> 
> "The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.
> 
> "After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."



Really was it possible for nuclear weapons during olden times>?


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## Mav3rick

Rajaraja Chola said:


> Really was it possible for nuclear weapons during olden times>?



I wonder if the impact of an asteroid can be taken as a Nuclear Attack especially when it can possibly leave radioactive dust behind.


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## Joe Shearer

Vibs said:


> SUch theories do keep coming up. People who believe refer to the Bhagwad Gita quote by Robert Oppenheimer. But no rational explanation or evidence backing such claims. For the time being, we can just take them as they aremeant to be...mythology.



This is amazing. It's just that Oppenheimer was well-read and this phrase came readily to him when he saw the fireball. Why need we construct far-fetched theories based on that?


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## GR!FF!N

Rajaraja Chola said:


> Really was it possible for nuclear weapons during olden times>?



dunno..but the effect they described in that times only depicts about nuclear radiation..did you read about Battle between Atlantis and Saptarishi Empire??Most claims that Mohenjodoro as just a city of Saptarishi empire which was destroyed like hundreds of other cities.not just Indo-Pakistan,there are several cities found in Europe with same kind of destruction(probably they were part of Atlantis Empire)..history is an amazing thing to read.

you guys should read about Lemuria too..it has similarities with stories told about Atlantis..

Atlantis was an advanced race whose one faction is saptarishi empire and one of the weapon of that age is Vimanas.dunno it existed or not,but what design told about it in Viman Shastra is almost looks like a jet fighter with a Propeller as a secondary system.you can even read Viman Sastra.but who wrote about it actually had very poor technological knowledge and may be he just wrote it as an observer.thats why he gave detailed description about its outer structure when inner structure details are flawed.you can say they guy is an ancestor of today's INDIAN DEFENCE CORRESPONDENT(same poor technological base).


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