# History of Genocide of Muslims in India



## MM_Haider

Normally we Pakistanis only know the genocide of Muslims being committed by India in Kashmir or if someone reads newspaper would know about massacre of Muslims in 2002 in Gujrat but the fact is that there has been hardly a year when Muslims are not subjected to genocide in past 70 years .. when it comes to hate towards Muslims - Congress and BJP are just two sides of the same coin.. 

Here is a brief summary. 

*1. Calcutta Muslim Genocide - 1964 *

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/13/newsid_4098000/4098363.stm
Over 100 Muslims killed by Hindu mobs and 70,000 rendered homeless. BBC wrote , "So far more than 70,000 Muslims have fled their homes in the city, and 55,000 are sleeping in the open under army protection".
As per NY Times, the riots were initiated by Hindus. 
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/01/12/...-60-in-riots-hindu-mob-kills-3-policemen.html

*2. Bhiwandi Muslim Genocide - 1970 *

Thousands on Muslims' houses were burnt. 200 Muslims killed between 7 and 8 May 1970. When RSS terrorists unleashed wrath on innocent Muslims. 

Following the incident the Indian government formed a Commission headed by Justice Dinshah Pirosha Madon. The final report from the commission ran to seven volumes and was highly critical of the police for their failure to prevent the riots, the report was also highly critical of Shiv Sena for their part in the violence. 

According to the Madon report of those arrested during the violence 324 were Hindu and 2183 were Muslim. The Madon report was highly critical of the police, stating that their action showed a clear "anti-Muslim bias". According to K. Jaishankar, of those arrested for clearly identifiable crimes during the violence in 1970, 21 were Hindu and 901 were Muslim, a figure disproportionate to the numbers of casualties (which Jaishankar gives as 17 Hindus and 59 Muslims). 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhiwandi_riots

The commission was categorical: “The organisation which has both directly and indirectly provoked the disturbances which took place in Bhiwandi, Khoni and Nagaon on May 7, 1970 and thereafter is the Rashtriya Utsav Mandal, the majority of the members of which belonged to the Jan Sangh or were pro-Jan Sangh, and the rest, apart from a few exceptions, to the Shiv Sena.”

https://www.nchro.org/index.php/2000/03/22/bhiwandi-riots-1970-judicial-report-on-rss-participation/

*3. Muradabad Muslims' Genocide - 1980
*
Over 2500 Muslims massacred with police as accomplice. 
On August 13, 1980, a broad daylight massacre had occurred at the biggest Eidgah in Moradabad district of Uttar Pradesh when Muslims were offering Eid prayers. A domesticated Ppig was unleashed into the gathering. Muslims protested but police opened fire on them. 
Around 40,000 Muslims had gathered at the Eidgah to offer annual prayers when a contingent of the state police and Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) opened fire and around 300 Muslims were killed.
Justice MP Saxena Commission report on the Moradabad massacare has not be tabled yet.

http://www.indiatomorrow.net/eng/this-day-39-years-ago-what-had-happened-at-eidgah-in-moradabad

*4. Nellie Muslims' Genocide - 1983
*
Over 5000 Muslims were slaughtered with sharpened instruments in 1983 by Hindu terrorists. On the ‘Black Friday’ of February 18, 1983, when the 8-hour-long Nellie Massacre took place in central Assam's Nagaon district (now Morigaon). The carnage is estimated to have left over 5,000 people dead, including the elderly and children. The official reports, however, put the death toll at only 1,819. Victims were barricaded for 6 months before undergoing slaughter and facing the worst face of Hindu terror. 
"The Tiwari Commission report (not officially published yet) has blamed the AASU and the Bharatiya Janata Party among others for the violence unleashed on the alleged Bangladeshi people."
This massacre is known as the worst one after WWII. Most of those who were slaughtered with knives were kids and women. 
https://www.newsclick.in/nellie-198...ay-they-had-been-barricaded-6-months-massacre

*5. Hashimpura Massacre - 1987*

The killings of of 42 Muslim men took place during a riot in Meerut in 1987 when the victims were picked up from the Hashimpura neighbourhood by the 41st Battalion of the PAC during a search operation.

https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/hashimpura-massacre-a-timeline-1379612-2018-10-31

*6. Bhagalpur Muslims' Genocide - 1989*

The Bhagalpur riots of 1989 refers to the violence between the Hindus and the Muslims in the Bhagalpur of Bihar, India. The riots started on 24 October 1989, and the violent incidents continued to happen for 2 months. The violence affected the Bhagalpur city and 250 villages around it. Over 1,000 people (around 900 of which were Muslims), were killed, and another 50,000 were displaced as a result of the violence. It was the worst Hindu-Muslim violence in independent India at the time. 

According to official figures 1,070 people were killed & 524 injured. 15 out of 21 blocks of Bhagalpur were affected by the riots. 11,500 houses in 195 villages were destroyed, displacing 48,000 people. 68 mosques and 20 mazars were destroyed.

The Chandheri (also spelled Chanderi) village was attacked from three sides by the people from the adjoining villages on the evening of 27 October. The Yadavs of the neighbouring settlement had disapproved of the construction of a mosque in the village. The attackers set the mosque on the fire, along with some houses, killing 5 people.

At the Logain village, 116 Muslims were killed by a 4000-strong mob led by the police officer Ramchander Singh. The perpetrators buried the bodies in fields, and then planted cauliflower over the mass grave to hide the evidence. 14 people, including the former police officer, were convicted and sentenced to rigorous life imprisonment for the killings, in 2007.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Bhagalpur_violence

*7. Bombay Muslims' Genocide - 1992 *

The violence that scorched the Waghchores and their neighbours was just one episode in the intense riots that consumed India’s commercial capital after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in faraway Ayodhya on December 6, 1992. The destruction of the shrine sparked riots across India, but the violence was most intense in Mumbai – which was still known as Bombay at the time. Approximately 900 Mumbai residents were left dead in two bursts of rioting in December 1992 and January 1993.

The violence was widely reported as having been orchestrated by the Shiv Sena. An estimated 575 Muslims were martyred by Hindu terrorists. 

*8 - Pangal Muslims' Genocide - 1993*

on 3 May 1993, the massacre of Pangal occured , when an indigenous Muslims community in Manipur, India, was attacked by the Meitie, who are the majority ethnic group of Manipur and are largely Hindu. 

There are conflicting accounts of what started the violence, one account says Hindu separatists tried to buy arms from a Muslim arms smuggler and were rebuffed. Another account says that the Hindu rebels were trying to extort from a Muslim village who resisted and killed one of the rebel. The violence started on 3 May 1993 and continued will into the 5th May. Bus containing Muslims passengers were set on fire and clashes took places between Pangal and Meitei. People were killed in the roads; homes and shops were burned down. An estimated 90 to 130 people were killed. 
https://www.firstpost.com/india/jnu...ent-responds-with-authors-arrest-8257101.html

Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat in 2002 and recently in Delhi in 2020 are anyway a simile of Hindu terror unleashed on Indian Muslims.

========================================================
Wish Muslims had migrated to Pakistan in 1947. They refused one migration and are in constant migration within India since then. Wish they had stood for Kashmiris when they were undergoing Indian state sponsored terrorism... one could only wish for this!!!

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## Naofumi

How deluded you're? It has been pointed thousand of times that the migration of population equal to whole of Pakistan (post-1971 measuring) was logistically impossible and the space was not available in the Pakistan itself, most of the Muhajirs occupied the space left out by Hindu/Sikh emigres, the net population exchange was nearly zero.

And Kashmiri insurgency started in 1989, Indian Muslims had seen many riots before that.

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## masterchief_mirza

Excellent briefing. It's tragic that we forget our own regional history. We need to carefully document every pogrom and genocide so that the thin veil of secularism adorned by the Indian state is rudely torn away by the irrefutable track record of sustained Hindutva militancy.

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## Gandhi G in da house

None nearly as big as what Pakistan did with Bangladeshi Hindus in 1971.



masterchief_mirza said:


> Excellent briefing. It's tragic that we forget our own regional history. We need to carefully document every pogrom and genocide so that the thin veil of secularism adorned by the Indian state is rudely torn away by the irrefutable track record of sustained Hindutva militancy.



Why are you obsessed with India's internal affairs ? I can understand your concerns about Kashmir but you should not be concerned about anything else that happens in India. 

Btw, if you care for Indian Muslims so much you should open the doors for then like India has done for persecuted Hindus, Sikhs and Christians from Pakistan. Let's see how many Indian muslims take up that option.

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## Cliftonite

Gandhi G in da house said:


> None nearly as big as what Pakistan did with Bangladeshi Hindus in 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you obsessed with India's internal affairs ? I can understand your concerns about Kashmir but you should not be concerned about anything else that happens in India.
> 
> Btw, if you care for Indian Muslims so much you should open the doors for then like India has done for persecuted Hindus, Sikhs and Christians from Pakistan. Let's see how many Indian muslims take up that option.




Cooked up stories. 3 million people killed. Wow. Logic is dead.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Once Pakistan can take good care of migrants settled in Urban Sindh....Pakistan can lay claim on Indian Muslims as well and can build a good case there.

Till then...no chance. Indian Muslims know that their some of the relatives in Karachi are not treated well so they don't trust on Pakistan.

Ordinary Pakistanis may sympathize with Indian Muslims but Pakistani establishment and governments will give a DAMN about Indian Muslims.

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## masterchief_mirza

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Why are you obsessed with India's internal affairs ?


We just like documenting when the state of India shoots itself in the foot or cuts off its nose to spite its face. It's a hobby that keeps on giving.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Cliftonite said:


> Cooked up stories. 3 million people killed. Wow. Logic is dead.



Yes Pakistan does no wrong. Everything you do is cooked up. Your Muslims brothers in Bangladesh claim 3 million dead. Even if that number is exaggerated, the real is at least in hundreds of thousands.

Also, don't forget the genocide of Kashmiri Pandits in 1989 that Pakistani and Pakistan backed militants did and the genocide of 166 people in Mumbai by Ajmal Kasab and other Pakistanis.

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## Naofumi

Cliftonite said:


> Cooked up stories. 3 million people killed. Wow. Logic is dead.


What's your estimate?

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## masterchief_mirza

Gandhi G in da house said:


> if you care for Indian Muslims so much you should open the doors for then like India has done for persecuted Hindus, Sikhs and Christians from Pakistan.


Ask Indian Muslims themselves if they'd rather come to Pakistan or stay and resist the eroding of their heritage and legacy. 

If we evacuate Indian Muslims tomorrow hypothetically speaking, mughal history in India will be erased. Indian Muslims are custodians of the same recent history that contributed to our own nation. We know that Modi, Yogi and Shah would gladly erase mughal and Islamic heritage from the history books - they even cry about this in foreign countries like they give a damn - hence Pakistan will encourage Indian Muslims to proudly defend their legacy. It's their home that they built. Why should they leave? Anyway, you're asking the wrong person. Ask Indian Muslims.

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## Gandhi G in da house

masterchief_mirza said:


> Ask Indian Muslims themselves if they'd rather come to Pakistan or stay and resist the eroding of their heritage and legacy.
> 
> If we evacuate Indian Muslims tomorrow hypothetically speaking, mughal history in India will be erased. Indian Muslims are custodians of the same recent history that contributed to our own nation. We know that Modi, Yogi and Shah would gladly erase mughal and Islamic heritage from the history books - they even cry about this in foreign countries like they give a damn - hence Pakistan will encourage Indian Muslims to proudly defend their legacy. It's their home that they built. Why should they leave? Anyway, you're asking the wrong person. Ask Indian Muslims.



Bahaane maarne band karo. 

Open doors for them and see how many come. 

Hint: They won't.

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## Naofumi

masterchief_mirza said:


> Ask Indian Muslims themselves if they'd rather come to Pakistan or stay and resist the eroding of their heritage and legacy.
> 
> If we evacuate Indian Muslims tomorrow hypothetically speaking, mughal history in India will be erased. Indian Muslims are custodians of the same recent history that contributed to our own nation. We know that Modi, Yogi and Shah would gladly erase mughal and Islamic heritage from the history books - they even cry about this in foreign countries like they give a damn - hence Pakistan will encourage Indian Muslims to proudly defend their legacy. It's their home that they built. Why should they leave? Anyway, you're asking the wrong person. Ask Indian Muslims.





Gandhi G in da house said:


> Bahaane maarne band karo.
> 
> Open doors for them and see how many come.
> 
> Hint: They won't.


Pragmatically speaking, most persons will chose the economically better side + some inertia is natural too.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Naofumi said:


> Pragmatically speaking, most persons will chose the economically better side + some inertia is natural too.



True but when persecution gets really crazy, they migrate, like the Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan who keep coming into India.


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## Naofumi

Gandhi G in da house said:


> True but when persecution gets really crazy, they migrate, like the Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan who keep coming into India.


The violence was/is still a periodic occurrence, so while it may have pushed ghettoization but migration was a distant thought, that being said some do migrated, especially in early periods, maybe some stats can help.


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## Cliftonite

Naofumi said:


> What's your estimate?




The most generous estimate is still below a million, somewhere in hundred thousands. I'd say 2 to 3 lacs at the most if we're being real.



Gandhi G in da house said:


> Yes Pakistan does no wrong. Everything you do is cooked up. Your Muslims brothers in Bangladesh claim 3 million dead. Even if that number is exaggerated, the real is at least in hundreds of thousands.
> 
> Also, don't forget the genocide of Kashmiri Pandits in 1989 that Pakistani and Pakistan backed militants did and the genocide of 166 people in Mumbai by Ajmal Kasab and other Pakistanis.




Oh god spare me the Star Plus theatrics. FAR MORE Muslims have been killed inside India in numerous pogroms since 1947. Anupam Kher and his Kashmir Pundits can come suck my d for all I care because mere kaan pakk gaye hain yeh sun sun 'wUt abOuT dA kaShMiRi pUnDiT genOxide'. Like Justin Timberlake said cry me a river.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

MM_Haider said:


> Normally we Pakistanis only know the genocide of Muslims being committed by India in Kashmir or if someone reads newspaper would know about massacre of Muslims in 2002 in Gujrat but the fact is that there has been hardly a year when Muslims are not subjected to genocide in past 70 years .. when it comes to hate towards Muslims - Congress and BJP are just two sides of the same coin..
> 
> Here is a brief summary.
> 
> *1. Calcutta Muslim Genocide - 1964 *
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/13/newsid_4098000/4098363.stm
> Over 100 Muslims killed by Hindu mobs and 70,000 rendered homeless. BBC wrote , "So far more than 70,000 Muslims have fled their homes in the city, and 55,000 are sleeping in the open under army protection".
> As per NY Times, the riots were initiated by Hindus.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1964/01/12/...-60-in-riots-hindu-mob-kills-3-policemen.html
> 
> *2. Bhiwandi Muslim Genocide - 1970 *
> 
> Thousands on Muslims' houses were burnt. 200 Muslims killed between 7 and 8 May 1970. When RSS terrorists unleashed wrath on innocent Muslims.
> 
> Following the incident the Indian government formed a Commission headed by Justice Dinshah Pirosha Madon. The final report from the commission ran to seven volumes and was highly critical of the police for their failure to prevent the riots, the report was also highly critical of Shiv Sena for their part in the violence.
> 
> According to the Madon report of those arrested during the violence 324 were Hindu and 2183 were Muslim. The Madon report was highly critical of the police, stating that their action showed a clear "anti-Muslim bias". According to K. Jaishankar, of those arrested for clearly identifiable crimes during the violence in 1970, 21 were Hindu and 901 were Muslim, a figure disproportionate to the numbers of casualties (which Jaishankar gives as 17 Hindus and 59 Muslims).
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhiwandi_riots
> 
> The commission was categorical: “The organisation which has both directly and indirectly provoked the disturbances which took place in Bhiwandi, Khoni and Nagaon on May 7, 1970 and thereafter is the Rashtriya Utsav Mandal, the majority of the members of which belonged to the Jan Sangh or were pro-Jan Sangh, and the rest, apart from a few exceptions, to the Shiv Sena.”
> 
> https://www.nchro.org/index.php/2000/03/22/bhiwandi-riots-1970-judicial-report-on-rss-participation/
> 
> *3. Muradabad Muslims' Genocide - 1980
> *
> Over 2500 Muslims massacred with police as accomplice.
> On August 13, 1980, a broad daylight massacre had occurred at the biggest Eidgah in Moradabad district of Uttar Pradesh when Muslims were offering Eid prayers. A domesticated Ppig was unleashed into the gathering. Muslims protested but police opened fire on them.
> Around 40,000 Muslims had gathered at the Eidgah to offer annual prayers when a contingent of the state police and Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) opened fire and around 300 Muslims were killed.
> Justice MP Saxena Commission report on the Moradabad massacare has not be tabled yet.
> 
> http://www.indiatomorrow.net/eng/this-day-39-years-ago-what-had-happened-at-eidgah-in-moradabad
> 
> *4. Nellie Muslims' Genocide - 1983
> *
> Over 5000 Muslims were slaughtered with sharpened instruments in 1983 by Hindu terrorists. On the ‘Black Friday’ of February 18, 1983, when the 8-hour-long Nellie Massacre took place in central Assam's Nagaon district (now Morigaon). The carnage is estimated to have left over 5,000 people dead, including the elderly and children. The official reports, however, put the death toll at only 1,819. Victims were barricaded for 6 months before undergoing slaughter and facing the worst face of Hindu terror.
> "The Tiwari Commission report (not officially published yet) has blamed the AASU and the Bharatiya Janata Party among others for the violence unleashed on the alleged Bangladeshi people."
> This massacre is known as the worst one after WWII. Most of those who were slaughtered with knives were kids and women.
> https://www.newsclick.in/nellie-198...ay-they-had-been-barricaded-6-months-massacre
> 
> *5. Hashimpura Massacre - 1987*
> 
> The killings of of 42 Muslim men took place during a riot in Meerut in 1987 when the victims were picked up from the Hashimpura neighbourhood by the 41st Battalion of the PAC during a search operation.
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/hashimpura-massacre-a-timeline-1379612-2018-10-31
> 
> *6. Bhagalpur Muslims' Genocide - 1989*
> 
> The Bhagalpur riots of 1989 refers to the violence between the Hindus and the Muslims in the Bhagalpur of Bihar, India. The riots started on 24 October 1989, and the violent incidents continued to happen for 2 months. The violence affected the Bhagalpur city and 250 villages around it. Over 1,000 people (around 900 of which were Muslims), were killed, and another 50,000 were displaced as a result of the violence. It was the worst Hindu-Muslim violence in independent India at the time.
> 
> According to official figures 1,070 people were killed & 524 injured. 15 out of 21 blocks of Bhagalpur were affected by the riots. 11,500 houses in 195 villages were destroyed, displacing 48,000 people. 68 mosques and 20 mazars were destroyed.
> 
> The Chandheri (also spelled Chanderi) village was attacked from three sides by the people from the adjoining villages on the evening of 27 October. The Yadavs of the neighbouring settlement had disapproved of the construction of a mosque in the village. The attackers set the mosque on the fire, along with some houses, killing 5 people.
> 
> At the Logain village, 116 Muslims were killed by a 4000-strong mob led by the police officer Ramchander Singh. The perpetrators buried the bodies in fields, and then planted cauliflower over the mass grave to hide the evidence. 14 people, including the former police officer, were convicted and sentenced to rigorous life imprisonment for the killings, in 2007.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Bhagalpur_violence
> 
> *7. Bombay Muslims' Genocide - 1992 *
> 
> The violence that scorched the Waghchores and their neighbours was just one episode in the intense riots that consumed India’s commercial capital after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in faraway Ayodhya on December 6, 1992. The destruction of the shrine sparked riots across India, but the violence was most intense in Mumbai – which was still known as Bombay at the time. Approximately 900 Mumbai residents were left dead in two bursts of rioting in December 1992 and January 1993.
> 
> The violence was widely reported as having been orchestrated by the Shiv Sena. An estimated 575 Muslims were martyred by Hindu terrorists.
> 
> *8 - Pangal Muslims' Genocide - 1993*
> 
> on 3 May 1993, the massacre of Pangal occured , when an indigenous Muslims community in Manipur, India, was attacked by the Meitie, who are the majority ethnic group of Manipur and are largely Hindu.
> 
> There are conflicting accounts of what started the violence, one account says Hindu separatists tried to buy arms from a Muslim arms smuggler and were rebuffed. Another account says that the Hindu rebels were trying to extort from a Muslim village who resisted and killed one of the rebel. The violence started on 3 May 1993 and continued will into the 5th May. Bus containing Muslims passengers were set on fire and clashes took places between Pangal and Meitei. People were killed in the roads; homes and shops were burned down. An estimated 90 to 130 people were killed.
> https://www.firstpost.com/india/jnu...ent-responds-with-authors-arrest-8257101.html
> 
> Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat in 2002 and recently in Delhi in 2020 are anyway a simile of Hindu terror unleashed on Indian Muslims.
> 
> ========================================================
> Wish Muslims had migrated to Pakistan in 1947. They refused one migration and are in constant migration within India since then. Wish they had stood for Kashmiris when they were undergoing Indian state sponsored terrorism... one could only wish for this!!!








I don't condone genocide of ANYONE. Whatever race or religion they may be. 

Before making threads like these please note that indian Muslims hate Pakistan and Pakistanis just as much as indian hindus and sikhs do. If we went to war with india, india Muslims will be more than happy to kill Pakistani Muslims on behalf of indian hindus and sikhs. Even if indian hindus and sikhs kill millions of indian Muslims. Please never forget this.


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## arjunk

Gandhi G in da house said:


> None nearly as big as what Pakistan did with Bangladeshi Hindus in 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you obsessed with India's internal affairs ? I can understand your concerns about Kashmir but you should not be concerned about anything else that happens in India.
> 
> Btw, if you care for Indian Muslims so much you should open the doors for then like India has done for persecuted Hindus, Sikhs and Christians from Pakistan. Let's see how many Indian muslims take up that option.



Funny coming from a country that teaches kids in school a Pakistani mountain is the tallest mountain in India, and has heavier penalties for not showing government certified maps than any country in the world.

And yes, the 3 million Bengali Hindus which no one including Bengalis could prove have been re born along with the 999,999,999,999,999,999,999 pandits that 'terrorists' killed in Kashmir.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Cliftonite said:


> Oh god spare me the Star Plus theatrics. FAR MORE Muslims have been killed inside India in numerous pogroms since 1947. Anupam Kher and his Kashmir Pundits can come suck my d for all I care because mere kaan pakk gaye hain yeh sun sun 'wUt abOuT dA kaShMiRi pUnDiT genOxide'. Like Justin Timberlake said cry me a river.



Then you can also go cry a river and suck any one's d while you are at it.

If you care for only Muslims death and not others because Kafirs are subhumans to you then don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone that actually matters.


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## xeuss

MM_Haider said:


> Normally we Pakistanis only know the genocide of Muslims being committed by India in Kashmir or if someone reads newspaper would know about massacre of Muslims in 2002 in Gujrat but the fact is that there has been hardly a year when Muslims are not subjected to genocide in past 70 years .. when it comes to hate towards Muslims - Congress and BJP are just two sides of the same coin..
> 
> Here is a brief summary.
> 
> *1. Calcutta Muslim Genocide - 1964 *
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/13/newsid_4098000/4098363.stm
> Over 100 Muslims killed by Hindu mobs and 70,000 rendered homeless. BBC wrote , "So far more than 70,000 Muslims have fled their homes in the city, and 55,000 are sleeping in the open under army protection".
> As per NY Times, the riots were initiated by Hindus.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1964/01/12/...-60-in-riots-hindu-mob-kills-3-policemen.html
> 
> *2. Bhiwandi Muslim Genocide - 1970 *
> 
> Thousands on Muslims' houses were burnt. 200 Muslims killed between 7 and 8 May 1970. When RSS terrorists unleashed wrath on innocent Muslims.
> 
> Following the incident the Indian government formed a Commission headed by Justice Dinshah Pirosha Madon. The final report from the commission ran to seven volumes and was highly critical of the police for their failure to prevent the riots, the report was also highly critical of Shiv Sena for their part in the violence.
> 
> According to the Madon report of those arrested during the violence 324 were Hindu and 2183 were Muslim. The Madon report was highly critical of the police, stating that their action showed a clear "anti-Muslim bias". According to K. Jaishankar, of those arrested for clearly identifiable crimes during the violence in 1970, 21 were Hindu and 901 were Muslim, a figure disproportionate to the numbers of casualties (which Jaishankar gives as 17 Hindus and 59 Muslims).
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhiwandi_riots
> 
> The commission was categorical: “The organisation which has both directly and indirectly provoked the disturbances which took place in Bhiwandi, Khoni and Nagaon on May 7, 1970 and thereafter is the Rashtriya Utsav Mandal, the majority of the members of which belonged to the Jan Sangh or were pro-Jan Sangh, and the rest, apart from a few exceptions, to the Shiv Sena.”
> 
> https://www.nchro.org/index.php/2000/03/22/bhiwandi-riots-1970-judicial-report-on-rss-participation/
> 
> *3. Muradabad Muslims' Genocide - 1980
> *
> Over 2500 Muslims massacred with police as accomplice.
> On August 13, 1980, a broad daylight massacre had occurred at the biggest Eidgah in Moradabad district of Uttar Pradesh when Muslims were offering Eid prayers. A domesticated Ppig was unleashed into the gathering. Muslims protested but police opened fire on them.
> Around 40,000 Muslims had gathered at the Eidgah to offer annual prayers when a contingent of the state police and Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) opened fire and around 300 Muslims were killed.
> Justice MP Saxena Commission report on the Moradabad massacare has not be tabled yet.
> 
> http://www.indiatomorrow.net/eng/this-day-39-years-ago-what-had-happened-at-eidgah-in-moradabad
> 
> *4. Nellie Muslims' Genocide - 1983
> *
> Over 5000 Muslims were slaughtered with sharpened instruments in 1983 by Hindu terrorists. On the ‘Black Friday’ of February 18, 1983, when the 8-hour-long Nellie Massacre took place in central Assam's Nagaon district (now Morigaon). The carnage is estimated to have left over 5,000 people dead, including the elderly and children. The official reports, however, put the death toll at only 1,819. Victims were barricaded for 6 months before undergoing slaughter and facing the worst face of Hindu terror.
> "The Tiwari Commission report (not officially published yet) has blamed the AASU and the Bharatiya Janata Party among others for the violence unleashed on the alleged Bangladeshi people."
> This massacre is known as the worst one after WWII. Most of those who were slaughtered with knives were kids and women.
> https://www.newsclick.in/nellie-198...ay-they-had-been-barricaded-6-months-massacre
> 
> *5. Hashimpura Massacre - 1987*
> 
> The killings of of 42 Muslim men took place during a riot in Meerut in 1987 when the victims were picked up from the Hashimpura neighbourhood by the 41st Battalion of the PAC during a search operation.
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/hashimpura-massacre-a-timeline-1379612-2018-10-31
> 
> *6. Bhagalpur Muslims' Genocide - 1989*
> 
> The Bhagalpur riots of 1989 refers to the violence between the Hindus and the Muslims in the Bhagalpur of Bihar, India. The riots started on 24 October 1989, and the violent incidents continued to happen for 2 months. The violence affected the Bhagalpur city and 250 villages around it. Over 1,000 people (around 900 of which were Muslims), were killed, and another 50,000 were displaced as a result of the violence. It was the worst Hindu-Muslim violence in independent India at the time.
> 
> According to official figures 1,070 people were killed & 524 injured. 15 out of 21 blocks of Bhagalpur were affected by the riots. 11,500 houses in 195 villages were destroyed, displacing 48,000 people. 68 mosques and 20 mazars were destroyed.
> 
> The Chandheri (also spelled Chanderi) village was attacked from three sides by the people from the adjoining villages on the evening of 27 October. The Yadavs of the neighbouring settlement had disapproved of the construction of a mosque in the village. The attackers set the mosque on the fire, along with some houses, killing 5 people.
> 
> At the Logain village, 116 Muslims were killed by a 4000-strong mob led by the police officer Ramchander Singh. The perpetrators buried the bodies in fields, and then planted cauliflower over the mass grave to hide the evidence. 14 people, including the former police officer, were convicted and sentenced to rigorous life imprisonment for the killings, in 2007.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Bhagalpur_violence
> 
> *7. Bombay Muslims' Genocide - 1992 *
> 
> The violence that scorched the Waghchores and their neighbours was just one episode in the intense riots that consumed India’s commercial capital after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in faraway Ayodhya on December 6, 1992. The destruction of the shrine sparked riots across India, but the violence was most intense in Mumbai – which was still known as Bombay at the time. Approximately 900 Mumbai residents were left dead in two bursts of rioting in December 1992 and January 1993.
> 
> The violence was widely reported as having been orchestrated by the Shiv Sena. An estimated 575 Muslims were martyred by Hindu terrorists.
> 
> *8 - Pangal Muslims' Genocide - 1993*
> 
> on 3 May 1993, the massacre of Pangal occured , when an indigenous Muslims community in Manipur, India, was attacked by the Meitie, who are the majority ethnic group of Manipur and are largely Hindu.
> 
> There are conflicting accounts of what started the violence, one account says Hindu separatists tried to buy arms from a Muslim arms smuggler and were rebuffed. Another account says that the Hindu rebels were trying to extort from a Muslim village who resisted and killed one of the rebel. The violence started on 3 May 1993 and continued will into the 5th May. Bus containing Muslims passengers were set on fire and clashes took places between Pangal and Meitei. People were killed in the roads; homes and shops were burned down. An estimated 90 to 130 people were killed.
> https://www.firstpost.com/india/jnu...ent-responds-with-authors-arrest-8257101.html
> 
> Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat in 2002 and recently in Delhi in 2020 are anyway a simile of Hindu terror unleashed on Indian Muslims.
> 
> ========================================================
> Wish Muslims had migrated to Pakistan in 1947. They refused one migration and are in constant migration within India since then. Wish they had stood for Kashmiris when they were undergoing Indian state sponsored terrorism... one could only wish for this!!!



Thank you for putting this together. 

But there are two misconceptions that I would like to address:

1. Migration - It was impractical and impossible for every Muslim in India to migrate to Pakistan. It was often a deeply personal decision that involved among other things, the situation in their immediate neighborhood, as well as family responsibility. One of my grandfathers did not migrate because of his handicapped sister and ageing parents. He could not leave them behind. His other brothers left. So your contempt is misplaced. 
2. Kashmir - I have stated several times that Muslims in India do not support what India or its security forces are doing in Kashmir. I am not sure how to explain that again.



Gandhi G in da house said:


> None nearly as big as what Pakistan did with Bangladeshi Hindus in 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you obsessed with India's internal affairs ? I can understand your concerns about Kashmir but you should not be concerned about anything else that happens in India.
> 
> Btw, if you care for Indian Muslims so much you should open the doors for then like India has done for persecuted Hindus, Sikhs and Christians from Pakistan. Let's see how many Indian muslims take up that option.



I really don't understand the reaction of even well meaning Hindus. Whenever presented with a calamitous situation, the itch to engage in whataboutery is very insulting. 

Can you, for once, acknowledge the grief that we have gone through? Does our situation deserve no concern because of the mistreatment of other minorities in other countries?

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## masterchief_mirza

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Bahaane maarne band karo.


I'm not making excuses. What a daft thing to say. The minute they leave India that's it, they're done, no going back. Why do you think BJP are so keen on declaring as many Muslims "illegal" as possible? They cocked up NRC round 1 in Assam because literally not enough Muslims were declared illegal.

What happened to the Palestinians when half of them fled to Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan? Their state is finished because Israel claims "facts on the ground speak for themselves". They've also lost custodianship of their heritage sites. Ethnoreligious cleansing by default is still ethnoreligious cleansing. 

It is genuinely not in their interests - even if Pakistan had the space - to come here, as they would forfeit everything to your salivating sanghee dogs. Indian "secularists" would stand by and do nothing while sanghees gleefully declare a new set of facts on the ground.

Honestly, you must think all subcontinental Muslims are stupid.

Indian Muslims should stay and resist your sanghee dogs. Pakistan will support them as the enemy is a mutual one.

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## Indus Pakistan

MM_Haider said:


> Normally we Pakistanis only know the genocide of Muslims being committed by India in Kashmir or if someone reads newspaper would know about massacre of Muslims in 2002 in Gujrat but the fact is that there has been hardly a year when Muslims are not subjected to genocide in past 70 years .. when it comes to hate towards Muslims - Congress and BJP are just two sides of the same coin..
> 
> Here is a brief summary.
> 
> *1. Calcutta Muslim Genocide - 1964 *
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/13/newsid_4098000/4098363.stm
> Over 100 Muslims killed by Hindu mobs and 70,000 rendered homeless. BBC wrote , "So far more than 70,000 Muslims have fled their homes in the city, and 55,000 are sleeping in the open under army protection".
> As per NY Times, the riots were initiated by Hindus.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1964/01/12/...-60-in-riots-hindu-mob-kills-3-policemen.html
> 
> *2. Bhiwandi Muslim Genocide - 1970 *
> 
> Thousands on Muslims' houses were burnt. 200 Muslims killed between 7 and 8 May 1970. When RSS terrorists unleashed wrath on innocent Muslims.
> 
> Following the incident the Indian government formed a Commission headed by Justice Dinshah Pirosha Madon. The final report from the commission ran to seven volumes and was highly critical of the police for their failure to prevent the riots, the report was also highly critical of Shiv Sena for their part in the violence.
> 
> According to the Madon report of those arrested during the violence 324 were Hindu and 2183 were Muslim. The Madon report was highly critical of the police, stating that their action showed a clear "anti-Muslim bias". According to K. Jaishankar, of those arrested for clearly identifiable crimes during the violence in 1970, 21 were Hindu and 901 were Muslim, a figure disproportionate to the numbers of casualties (which Jaishankar gives as 17 Hindus and 59 Muslims).
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhiwandi_riots
> 
> The commission was categorical: “The organisation which has both directly and indirectly provoked the disturbances which took place in Bhiwandi, Khoni and Nagaon on May 7, 1970 and thereafter is the Rashtriya Utsav Mandal, the majority of the members of which belonged to the Jan Sangh or were pro-Jan Sangh, and the rest, apart from a few exceptions, to the Shiv Sena.”
> 
> https://www.nchro.org/index.php/2000/03/22/bhiwandi-riots-1970-judicial-report-on-rss-participation/
> 
> *3. Muradabad Muslims' Genocide - 1980
> *
> Over 2500 Muslims massacred with police as accomplice.
> On August 13, 1980, a broad daylight massacre had occurred at the biggest Eidgah in Moradabad district of Uttar Pradesh when Muslims were offering Eid prayers. A domesticated Ppig was unleashed into the gathering. Muslims protested but police opened fire on them.
> Around 40,000 Muslims had gathered at the Eidgah to offer annual prayers when a contingent of the state police and Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) opened fire and around 300 Muslims were killed.
> Justice MP Saxena Commission report on the Moradabad massacare has not be tabled yet.
> 
> http://www.indiatomorrow.net/eng/this-day-39-years-ago-what-had-happened-at-eidgah-in-moradabad
> 
> *4. Nellie Muslims' Genocide - 1983
> *
> Over 5000 Muslims were slaughtered with sharpened instruments in 1983 by Hindu terrorists. On the ‘Black Friday’ of February 18, 1983, when the 8-hour-long Nellie Massacre took place in central Assam's Nagaon district (now Morigaon). The carnage is estimated to have left over 5,000 people dead, including the elderly and children. The official reports, however, put the death toll at only 1,819. Victims were barricaded for 6 months before undergoing slaughter and facing the worst face of Hindu terror.
> "The Tiwari Commission report (not officially published yet) has blamed the AASU and the Bharatiya Janata Party among others for the violence unleashed on the alleged Bangladeshi people."
> This massacre is known as the worst one after WWII. Most of those who were slaughtered with knives were kids and women.
> https://www.newsclick.in/nellie-198...ay-they-had-been-barricaded-6-months-massacre
> 
> *5. Hashimpura Massacre - 1987*
> 
> The killings of of 42 Muslim men took place during a riot in Meerut in 1987 when the victims were picked up from the Hashimpura neighbourhood by the 41st Battalion of the PAC during a search operation.
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/hashimpura-massacre-a-timeline-1379612-2018-10-31
> 
> *6. Bhagalpur Muslims' Genocide - 1989*
> 
> The Bhagalpur riots of 1989 refers to the violence between the Hindus and the Muslims in the Bhagalpur of Bihar, India. The riots started on 24 October 1989, and the violent incidents continued to happen for 2 months. The violence affected the Bhagalpur city and 250 villages around it. Over 1,000 people (around 900 of which were Muslims), were killed, and another 50,000 were displaced as a result of the violence. It was the worst Hindu-Muslim violence in independent India at the time.
> 
> According to official figures 1,070 people were killed & 524 injured. 15 out of 21 blocks of Bhagalpur were affected by the riots. 11,500 houses in 195 villages were destroyed, displacing 48,000 people. 68 mosques and 20 mazars were destroyed.
> 
> The Chandheri (also spelled Chanderi) village was attacked from three sides by the people from the adjoining villages on the evening of 27 October. The Yadavs of the neighbouring settlement had disapproved of the construction of a mosque in the village. The attackers set the mosque on the fire, along with some houses, killing 5 people.
> 
> At the Logain village, 116 Muslims were killed by a 4000-strong mob led by the police officer Ramchander Singh. The perpetrators buried the bodies in fields, and then planted cauliflower over the mass grave to hide the evidence. 14 people, including the former police officer, were convicted and sentenced to rigorous life imprisonment for the killings, in 2007.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Bhagalpur_violence
> 
> *7. Bombay Muslims' Genocide - 1992 *
> 
> The violence that scorched the Waghchores and their neighbours was just one episode in the intense riots that consumed India’s commercial capital after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in faraway Ayodhya on December 6, 1992. The destruction of the shrine sparked riots across India, but the violence was most intense in Mumbai – which was still known as Bombay at the time. Approximately 900 Mumbai residents were left dead in two bursts of rioting in December 1992 and January 1993.
> 
> The violence was widely reported as having been orchestrated by the Shiv Sena. An estimated 575 Muslims were martyred by Hindu terrorists.
> 
> *8 - Pangal Muslims' Genocide - 1993*
> 
> on 3 May 1993, the massacre of Pangal occured , when an indigenous Muslims community in Manipur, India, was attacked by the Meitie, who are the majority ethnic group of Manipur and are largely Hindu.
> 
> There are conflicting accounts of what started the violence, one account says Hindu separatists tried to buy arms from a Muslim arms smuggler and were rebuffed. Another account says that the Hindu rebels were trying to extort from a Muslim village who resisted and killed one of the rebel. The violence started on 3 May 1993 and continued will into the 5th May. Bus containing Muslims passengers were set on fire and clashes took places between Pangal and Meitei. People were killed in the roads; homes and shops were burned down. An estimated 90 to 130 people were killed.
> https://www.firstpost.com/india/jnu...ent-responds-with-authors-arrest-8257101.html
> 
> Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat in 2002 and recently in Delhi in 2020 are anyway a simile of Hindu terror unleashed on Indian Muslims.
> 
> ========================================================
> Wish Muslims had migrated to Pakistan in 1947. They refused one migration and are in constant migration within India since then. Wish they had stood for Kashmiris when they were undergoing Indian state sponsored terrorism... one could only wish for this!!!


Mmm this is our fault. While people @Pakistani Fighter came to free us look what happened to his people. Time for him to go back and free them?

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## Gandhi G in da house

xeuss said:


> I really don't understand the reaction of even well meaning Hindus. Whenever presented with a calamitous situation, the itch to engage in whataboutery is very insulting.
> 
> Can you, for once, acknowledge the grief that we have gone through? Does our situation deserve no concern because of the mistreatment of other minorities in other countries?



If you were discussing these issues with me, my reaction would be very different. Because I know where you are coming from as my compatriot.

But the OP ? I know where he is coming from too and it's not the same place as you. He is coming with an agenda and that has something to do with his country.

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## xeuss

Gandhi G in da house said:


> If you were discussing these issues with me, my reaction would be very different. Because I know where you are coming from as my compatriot.
> 
> But the OP ? I know where he is coming from too and it's not the same place as you. He is coming with an agenda and that has something to do with his country.



Fair enough. However, I have moved beyond deciding who has a right and who does not have a right to talk about issues. If something is wrong in my house, I need to fix it, rather then telling other people to not talk about it.

In any case, we are on a Pakistani forum, so it is natural that they will opine on issues within our country. If we were on a Zimbabwe forum, I am sure they would also have something to say when made aware of our issues. Not everything has an agenda.

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## Cliftonite

@Gandhi G in da house for you and those pussified Kashmiri pundits

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## Gandhi G in da house

xeuss said:


> In any case, we are on a Pakistani forum, so it is natural that they will opine on issues within our country.



Fair enough. Since this is a Pakistani forum, I can counter them by reminding them of their own issues and setting their own house in order first.



Cliftonite said:


> @Gandhi G in da house for you and those pussified Kashmiri pundits
> View attachment 635316



I am not interested in your weird fascination with Timberlake. Now I understand why you were talking about sucking d a short while back.


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## xeuss

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Fair enough. Since this is a Pakistani forum, I can counter them by reminding them of their own issues and setting their own house in order first.



You can open up a separate thread on that, instead of linking it to this one. 

I think all reasonable members (Pakistani/Non-Pakistani) will agree that crimes against humanity are wrong, especially when they are state sanctioned.

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## Gandhi G in da house

xeuss said:


> You can open up a separate thread on that, instead of linking it to this one.
> 
> I think all reasonable members (Pakistani/Non-Pakistani) will agree that crimes against humanity are wrong, especially when they are state sanctioned.



Trust me buddy, as an Indian Muslim, you don't want Pakistanis advocating for you or talking about your issues. You are more than capable of doing it on your own and will be taken far more seriously.

It is just hypocritical if it comes from people who have a shitty track record themselves on such issues.


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## El Sidd

After Sikh and Kashmiri pandit genocide, now Muslim genocide in India. 

People need be reminding India has 400 million stateless people.


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## xeuss

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Trust me buddy, as an Indian Muslim, you don't want Pakistanis advocating for you or talking about your issues. You are more than capable of doing it on your own and will be taken far more seriously.
> 
> It is just hypocritical if it comes from people who have a shitty track record themselves on such issues.



We are at the point, we will take advocacy from anyone, anywhere. We don't have any hope for justice or equality in India. 

When you are drowning, you don't have the luxury of choosing the hand that reaches out to you. 

Another point - what is wrong if a Pakistani advocates for an Indian Muslim? Why is it a taboo?

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## MayaBazar

xeuss said:


> We are at the point, we will take advocacy from anyone, anywhere. We don't have any hope for justice or equality in India.
> 
> When you are drowning, you don't have the luxury of choosing the hand that reaches out to you.
> 
> Another point - what is wrong if a Pakistani advocates for an Indian Muslim? Why is it a taboo?



There is no taboo. Either you want to taken seriously by Indians or Pakistanis. You cannot be both.


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## Mad Scientist 2.0

Naofumi said:


> What's your estimate?


The estimates also consists of urdu speaking muslims whom none talks about, they faced two side betrayal first the muktijoddhas who killed and raped them even I have heard from some sources I cannot confirm the veracity of that security of a country also took part in that and killed and raped "pathan" men and women. Second betrayal is from Pak side who left them hanging there in a country where everyone despises them.

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## Cliftonite

MayaBazar said:


> There is no taboo. Either you want to taken seriously by Indians or Pakistanis. You cannot be both.



You will only increase their feelings of alienation like this.


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## Nilgiri

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Trust me buddy, as an Indian Muslim, you don't want Pakistanis advocating for you or talking about your issues. You are more than capable of doing it on your own and will be taken far more seriously.
> 
> It is just hypocritical if it comes from people who have a shitty track record themselves on such issues.



Let the man make his own decision on this matter. Don't sermon.

It is best they get fully committed and well-cocooned to something and get burned on it in the end by their own hand....so they have no recourse to blame the evil Indian society for that (though some like afrazul are so long gone for even that to work).

You need leave some people to be, and observe the "new buds" they hang out with and like and support and quote. But its important you give enough time for this...a year or two...to see what waxes and wanes among that crew more naturally and instrinsically....it can be enough to do the job by itself, dependent on the character and specifically his own honesty, upbringing and distaste to hypocrisy....i.e root character.

Then (and only if really needed) you go for final jugular at the end, there is lot of material from this "new buddy" lot (down to exact same members even) they have spewed from years before when they were far more honest and open about their thoughts and intentions to indian muslims (far more than the naive or desperate "new" indian muslim members here can imagine...you have to dig deep and compile it and provide the sobering context too). 

There is time and place to show that hand, now is not the time....now is the time to let everything keep proceeding here as is...and let natural course of lessons take it shape.

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## xeuss

MayaBazar said:


> There is no taboo. Either you want to taken seriously by Indians or Pakistanis. You cannot be both.



That is among the most ludicrous things I have heard. I will be taken seriously by you as long as some random Pakistani does not advocate for me?

Seriously? I have some lovely gaalis for you, but the mods will ban me if I use them. So just go to a mirror and say them to yourself.

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## MayaBazar

Cliftonite said:


> You will only increase their feelings of alienation like this.



I do not have power to change anyone's opinion and I do not want to do it either. 

@xeuss is a mature and educated man. He should decide what he wants to be.

I can only say @xeuss is currently a god's gift for the ultra right on both sides.


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## xeuss

Nilgiri said:


> Let the man make his own decision on this matter. Don't sermon.
> 
> It is best they get fully committed and well-cocooned to something and get burned on it in the end by their own hand....so they have no recourse to blame the evil Indian society for that (though some like afrazul are so long gone for even that to work).
> 
> You need leave some people to be, and observe the "new buds" they hang out with and like and support and quote. But its important you give enough time for this...a year or two...to see what waxes and wanes among that crew more naturally and instrinsically....it can be enough to do the job by itself, dependent on the character and specifically his own honesty, upbringing and distaste to hypocrisy....i.e root character.
> 
> Then (and only if really needed) you go for final jugular at the end, there is lot of material from this "new buddy" lot (down to exact same members even) they have spewed from years before when they were far more honest and open about their thoughts and intentions to indian muslims (far more than the naive or desperate "new" indian muslim members here can imagine...you have to dig deep and compile it and provide the sobering context too).
> 
> There is time and place to show that hand, now is not the time....now is the time to let everything keep proceeding here as is...and let natural course of lessons take it shape.



Aaah...here we have a wise old guy, for whom the suffering of Muslims is simply a game that will "play out" on some forum.

Tell you something buddy - Pakistanis are far more sympathetic to us than you will ever, ever, ever be.

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## MM_Haider

Naofumi said:


> How deluded you're? It has been pointed thousand of times that the migration of population equal to whole of Pakistan (post-1971 measuring) was logistically impossible and the space was not available in the Pakistan itself, most of the Muhajirs occupied the space left out by Hindu/Sikh emigres, the net population exchange was nearly zero.
> 
> And Kashmiri insurgency started in 1989, Indian Muslims had seen many riots before that.



when Pakistan cane into being the total population of Muslims in whole Indian subcontinent was 92 million .. today Pakistan’s population alone is 220 Million .. (excluding then East Pakistan) .. it today’s Pakistan can feed 220 Million people it was not difficult to house 90 odd Muslims in East and West Pakistan or evening only in west Pakistan .. you declined Hijrat once .. you are Muhajir and damned forever .. you rejected Pakistan once .. you are rejected in your own country forever .. period!!!



Gandhi G in da house said:


> None nearly as big as what Pakistan did with Bangladeshi Hindus in 1971.



bring proof or shut up!


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## MayaBazar

xeuss said:


> That is among the most ludicrous things I have heard. I will be taken seriously by you as long as some random Pakistani does not advocate for me?
> 
> Seriously? I have some lovely gaalis for you, but the mods will ban me if I use them. So just go to a mirror and say them to yourself.



Please go ahead and vent it out. I assure you that there won't be any complaints from my end.


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## MM_Haider

Gandhi G in da house said:


> Btw, if you care for Indian Muslims so much you should open the doors for then like India has done for persecuted Hindus, Sikhs and Christians from Pakistan. Let's see how many Indian muslims take up that option.


Pakistan opened its door till 1951 when bilateral treaty between India and Pakistan happened that affirmed that people migrated till 1951 cease to be citizens of respective country.. India being irresponsible state has violated that treaty by opening its door to Hindus through shoddy law .. Pakistan is a responsible state and respects bilateral agreements .. 

Point remains that since India failed to take care of its minorities .. those who rejected the idea of Pakistan are proven wrong .. they should have migrated in 47!! Under upper caste Hindus they don’t have any future



PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Once Pakistan can take good care of migrants settled in Urban Sindh....Pakistan can lay claim on Indian Muslims as well and can build a good case there.
> 
> Till then...no chance. Indian Muslims know that their some of the relatives in Karachi are not treated well so they don't trust on Pakistan.
> 
> Ordinary Pakistanis may sympathize with Indian Muslims but Pakistani establishment and governments will give a DAMN about Indian Muslims.


Explain good care? Do they have to undergo genocidal trauma every year in Pakistan what their relatives who rejected Pakistan have to go through? Those who rejected Hijrat once are migrant in their own country .. good for them!!

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## Nilgiri

xeuss said:


> Aaah...here we have a wise old guy, for whom the suffering of Muslims is simply a game that will "play out" on some forum.
> 
> Tell you something buddy - Pakistanis are far more sympathetic to us than you will ever, ever, ever be.



Yes they are. They demonstrated it (en masse) aptly on the Bengalis...forget what they merely "thought" and "declared" and "forumed" during that time.

All neatly put in a package away from conscience and memory now as required.

But you keep being you pal.



MayaBazar said:


> @xeuss is a mature and educated man.

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## MM_Haider

masterchief_mirza said:


> Ask Indian Muslims themselves if they'd rather come to Pakistan or stay and resist the eroding of their heritage and legacy.
> 
> If we evacuate Indian Muslims tomorrow hypothetically speaking, mughal history in India will be erased. Indian Muslims are custodians of the same recent history that contributed to our own nation. We know that Modi, Yogi and Shah would gladly erase mughal and Islamic heritage from the history books - they even cry about this in foreign countries like they give a damn - hence Pakistan will encourage Indian Muslims to proudly defend their legacy. It's their home that they built. Why should they leave? Anyway, you're asking the wrong person. Ask Indian Muslims.


Like terrorists like Modi and shah and yogi have stopped erasing Muslim history while those Muslims are pushed in ghettoes in India? I will do separate thread on that how Indian upper caste hindu deep state has eroded Muslim history in past 70 years .. history ko chatna hay jab tumhari genocide ho rahi ho?



Gandhi G in da house said:


> Yes Pakistan does no wrong. Everything you do is cooked up. Your Muslims brothers in Bangladesh claim 3 million dead. Even if that number is exaggerated, the real is at least in hundreds of thousands.
> 
> Also, don't forget the genocide of Kashmiri Pandits in 1989 that Pakistani and Pakistan backed militants did and the genocide of 166 people in Mumbai by Ajmal Kasab and other Pakistanis.



whole war death toll was about 50000 to 100K.. the war which was waged by Hindu terrorists through its proxy Mukti Bahini .. again Hindu terrorism is seen here https://dailytimes.com.pk/175915/sarmila-bose-changes-perspective-71-war-through-dead-reckoning/amp/



Gandhi G in da house said:


> Bahaane maarne band karo.
> 
> Open doors for them and see how many come.
> 
> Hint: They won't.


That’s the destiny they chose .. good for them! They rejected Pakistan in 47 .. 70 years on they are subject to Hindu terrorism and persecution



Naofumi said:


> Pragmatically speaking, most persons will chose the economically better side + some inertia is natural too.


Most of the Muslims live in Ghettoes in India where they don’t have any facilities .. from electricity to education .. they are already alienated .. they are already the poorest of the communities of India .. what economic benefit you are talking about?

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## masterchief_mirza

xeuss said:


> Aaah...here we have a wise old guy, for whom the suffering of Muslims is simply a game that will "play out" on some forum.
> 
> Tell you something buddy - Pakistanis are far more sympathetic to us than you will ever, ever, ever be.


Sadly, you only count as a loyal Indian when you are validated as such by Hindus. If you dare speak as though you have a right over your own destiny in your own land, you will be regarded as an upstart (at best). This is because you are a "guest" to the nation state of India. Herein lies the true nature of Indian "secularism".

Any Indian is more than welcome to correct my psychometric analysis if they so wish.

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## MM_Haider

Gandhi G in da house said:


> True but when persecution gets really crazy, they migrate, like the Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan who keep coming into India.


The growth rate of Hindus in Pakistan is more than even India .. stop watching Arnab with immediate effect ..

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## masterchief_mirza

MM_Haider said:


> That’s the destiny they chose .. good for them! They rejected Pakistan in 47 .. 70 years on they are subject to Hindu terrorism and persecution


Oversimplification.


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## MM_Haider

Cliftonite said:


> The most generous estimate is still below a million, somewhere in hundred thousands. I'd say 2 to 3 lacs at the most if we're being real.


Study by Sharmila Bose suggest merely 50K to 100K all out in war waged by Hindu terrorists



Gandhi G in da house said:


> Then you can also go cry a river and suck any one's d while you are at it.
> 
> If you care for only Muslims death and not others because Kafirs are subhumans to you then don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone that actually matters.


This thread is about Genocide of Muslims in India with stats and references .. bring data to back up your claim or just shut up ..



xeuss said:


> 1. Migration - It was impractical and impossible for every Muslim in India to migrate to Pakistan. It was often a deeply personal decision that involved among other things, the situation in their immediate neighborhood, as well as family responsibility. One of my grandfathers did not migrate because of his handicapped sister and ageing parents. He could not leave them behind. His other brothers left. So your contempt is misplaced.
> 2. Kashmir - I have stated several times that Muslims in India do not support what India or its security forces are doing in Kashmir. I am not sure how to explain that again.


Bro migration took place not only on the eve of 14th August .. it continued till 1951.. there were five years for Indian Muslims to migrate .. but like Asad Owaisee says that Indian Muslims rejected ted Jinnah and chose Hindustan as their home is the right answer .. they shouldn’t have rejected hijrat.. and Pakistan to save themselves from Hindu terrorism which Jinnah foresaw .. 
about Kashmir .. never heard a word from Deoband or Muslim political leaders in favour or persecuted Kashmiris.. please enlighten me who is the Muslim leader who raised voice for Kashmiris right to self determination ..



Gandhi G in da house said:


> But the OP ? I know where he is coming from too and it's not the same place as you. He is coming with an agenda and that has something to do with his country.


Let it be clear my agenda is that Indian Muslims were destined to undergo genocide under Upper caste Hindu rule .. and that happened ,. There is hardly a year in past seven decades when pogrom against Muslims didn’t occur .. that’s what Jinnah foresaw .. they rejected migration once .. they are migrants forever in Hindustan .. and pushed in Ghettoes ..



Gandhi G in da house said:


> Fair enough. Since this is a Pakistani forum, I can counter them by reminding them of their own issues and setting their own house in order first.


You are not getting the gist of the thread nor countering with statistics .. what a sorry state when all you have is just verbose



Gandhi G in da house said:


> Trust me buddy, as an Indian Muslim, you don't want Pakistanis advocating for you or talking about your issues. You are more than capable of doing it on your own and will be taken far more seriously.
> 
> It is just hypocritical if it comes from people who have a shitty track record themselves on such issues.


It is only India which have shitty track record on human rights violations .. worst country for minorities and women ..


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## El Sidd

xeuss said:


> Aaah...here we have a wise old guy, for whom the suffering of Muslims is simply a game that will "play out" on some forum.
> 
> Tell you something buddy - Pakistanis are far more sympathetic to us than you will ever, ever, ever be.



do you live somewhere in abject minority?



MayaBazar said:


> There is no taboo. Either you want to taken seriously by Indians or Pakistanis. You cannot be both.



Did you come up with the slogan Graveyard or Pakistan?


----------



## xeuss

MayaBazar said:


> I do not have power to change anyone's opinion and I do not want to do it either.
> 
> @xeuss is a mature and educated man. He should decide what he wants to be.
> 
> I can only say @xeuss is currently a god's gift for the ultra right on both sides.



"Both sides" is a tired old argument. 

I just have a question - what did I say that bothers you so much?

I have only thanked the Pakistanis for their kind words on our plight. I would thank you as well if you had expressed the same. But sadly, you cannot bring yourself to say anything on our behalf. 

Why doesn't it occur to you and all your brethren - we would never look elsewhere if we had got justice in our own country. We are not asking for anything more than justice - punish those who wreak havoc on us.



Nilgiri said:


> Yes they are. They demonstrated it (en masse) aptly on the Bengalis...forget what they merely "thought" and "declared" and "forumed" during that time.
> 
> All neatly put in a package away from conscience and memory now as required.
> 
> But you keep being you pal.



Well you have had more than several opportunities to speak on our behalf and drown out the voices of those that you detest, who speak on our behalf. 

But your Saravana Brahmin upbringing will probably never allow you to do that.

You will instead just tell us how we should live and die and how we should speak.

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## Silverblaze

Pakistanis need to understand one thing. 

The hindu is a genetically hostile entity to muslmans. 

All this crap of pyar and aman is unreal. Sadly, many Pakistanis post videos and blogs about how much pyar mila hindus and sikhs ko in Pakistan. 

A real event.

After killing more than 1 millions muslims in 1947 and continuing on and giving Pakistan a moth eaten territory which was not viable, stopped waters in 1948 and in early 1950, india decided to attack the young Pakistan on both fronts under the pretext of anti hindu riots in East Pakistan and an exaggerated number of refugees. Same refugee excuse was used later in 1971. 

Anyways, Hindus lead by pandit nehru warned of 'other methods' if Pakistan doesnt 'stop' its atrocities. 
Liaquat had no choice to go to india and sign the nehru - liaquat pact. Thats why Pakistan went for the US alliance to save itself from hindus. 

The problem is Pakistanis even today fail to recognize the magnitude of hindu hatred for Pakistan and muslmans. 

Now anyone who comes up with this BS of pyar milta hai or says Pakistan was just a british ploy, declare them murtad or at least strip them off any human decency.


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## MayaBazar

xeuss said:


> "Both sides" is a tired old argument.
> 
> I just have a question - what did I say that bothers you so much?
> 
> I have only thanked the Pakistanis for their kind words on our plight. I would thank you as well if you had expressed the same. But sadly, you cannot bring yourself to say anything on our behalf.
> 
> Why doesn't it occur to you and all your brethren - we would never look elsewhere if we had got justice in our own country. We are not asking for anything more than justice - punish those who wreak havoc on us.



No. I do not have any issues at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion based on their experiences in life. Personally if you have any grievances, I can surely try to help as I come from a bureaucratic family.

I was only highlighting the consequences of your actions which I am sure you are very well aware of.


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## xeuss

MayaBazar said:


> No. I do not have any issues at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion based on their experiences in life. Personally if you have any grievances, I can surely try to help as I come from a bureaucratic family.
> 
> I was only highlighting the consequences of your actions which I am sure you are very well aware of.



Would you care to clarify the "consequences of my actions"?

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## Nilgiri

xeuss said:


> Well you have had more than several opportunities to speak on our behalf and drown out the voices of those that you detest, who speak on our behalf.



Yes yes you are some great arbiter for all of this. You have obviously read the full volume of appropriate discourse on this forum and fully accounted for everyone's personal weariness or continued indulgence at whatever topic holds your attention the most in whichever way its manifested in your conscious. 

Not to mention what the relevance of a forum even is in the first place.

If there is further effort to be made by anyone feeling weary about it....simply they can choose a time, place and method for it themselves. 

If others want to jibber-jabber the same one line blab for back pats and fist pumps from same gangs and coteries that form in these places, thats also up to them.

But who are you exactly to pass conclusive judgement this early on anyone here as to who have and haven't had several opportunities to speak on some behalf the way you shape and dictate it to begin with? 



xeuss said:


> But your Saravana Brahmin upbringing will probably never allow you to do that.



Ah upbringings.... maybe I should assert how your upbringing was on the basis of someone like Mohammed Atta who shared same faith?

Keep walking down that slope buddy....feigning balance while you slip. You only prove my point the more you do.



xeuss said:


> You will instead just tell us how we should live and die and how we should speak.



Yes I somehow am telling you all that....by saying "please continue as you wish...and learn what lessons you learn from it in due course". 

Sounds plenty intrusive and dictatorial. 

Or are you personally reading into some perceived intent of mine here?...which strangely or not so strangely is a sudden no-no when concerning others who's even blatant intent get a free pass.

Subjective tribalism is warm. I understand and empathise...for its cold out in the objective neutrality.

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## xeuss

Nilgiri said:


> Yes yes you are some great arbiter for all of this. You have obviously read the full volume of appropriate discourse on this forum and fully accounted for everyone's personal weariness or continued indulgence at whatever topic holds your attention the most in whichever way its manifested in your conscious.
> 
> Not to mention what the relevance of a forum even is in the first place.
> 
> If there is further effort to be made by anyone feeling weary about it....simply they can choose a time, place and method for it themselves.
> 
> If others want to jibber-jabber the same one line blab for back pats and fist pumps from same gangs and coteries that form in these places, thats also up to them.
> 
> But who are you exactly to pass conclusive judgement this early on anyone here as to who have and haven't had several opportunities to speak on some behalf the way you shape and dictate it to begin with?
> 
> 
> 
> Ah upbringings.... maybe I should assert how your upbringing was on the basis of someone like Mohammed Atta who shared same faith?
> 
> Keep walking down that slope buddy....feigning balance while you slip. You only prove my point the more you do.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I somehow am telling you all that....by saying "please continue as you wish...and learn what lessons you learn from it in due course".
> 
> Sounds plenty intrusive and dictatorial.
> 
> Or are you personally reading into some perceived intent of mine here?...which strangely or not so strangely is a sudden no-no when concerning others who's even blatant intent get a free pass.
> 
> Subjective tribalism is warm. I understand and empathise...for its cold out in the objective neutrality.



You will type up a thousand words to say how and why I am wrong. But cannot bring it to yourself to say a few words of support to Indian Muslims in a thread titled "History of Genocide of Muslims of India".

With friends like these, who needs enemies

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## MayaBazar

xeuss said:


> Would you care to clarify the "consequences of my actions"?



If I want to be taken seriously then I have to earn the trust of my fellow citizens. It is not limited to me alone. It is applicable to each and every one of us on the internet, as it anonymous.

How do you know if I am a Hindu or an Indian? There is nothing that proves my identify. My identify is just a collection of posts that I make here and not the flags that I carry in my user profile.

How do I know if you are a Muslim? You might just be a right wing Hindu posting things to sway the opinion of secular Hindus to hate Muslims or you might be a Pakistani postings to sway the opinion of Indian Hindus to hate Indian Muslims or you may indeed be an Indian Muslim with valid grievances. There is simply no way for me to be certain about your identify as you are not in front of me physically with your identity document.

PDF rules may protect people from judging publicly but the question is how will one gain trust, if at all one cares.


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## xeuss

MayaBazar said:


> If I want to be taken seriously then I have to earn the trust of my fellow citizens. It is not limited to me alone. It is applicable to each and every one of us on the internet, as it anonymous.
> 
> How do you know if I am a Hindu or an Indian? There is nothing that proves my identify. My identify is just a collection of posts that I make here and not the flags that I carry in my user profile.
> 
> How do I know if you are a Muslim? You might just be a right wing Hindu posting things to sway the opinion of secular Hindus to hate Muslims or you might be a Pakistani postings to sway the opinion of Indian Hindus to hate Indian Muslims or you may indeed be an Indian Muslim with valid grievances. There is simply no way for me to be certain about your identify as you are not in front of me physically with your identity document.
> 
> PDF rules may protect people from judging publicly but the question is how will one gain trust, if at all one cares.



I am not sure what you are trying to say here. 

So you aren't going to take me seriously because I appreciated some words from Pakistanis?


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## MayaBazar

xeuss said:


> thread titled "History of Genocide of Muslims of India".



The problem is with the title of this thread itself. This is nothing but a pure propaganda thread to malign India.

There was never a genocide of Muslims in India.

What India has from time to time are communal riots in why people belonging to all faiths have died equally.



xeuss said:


> I am not sure what you are trying to say here.
> 
> So you aren't going to take me seriously because I appreciated some words from Pakistanis?



Read my response above.



xeuss said:


> So you aren't going to take me seriously because I appreciated some words from Pakistanis?



This is an disingenuous thread opened by a Pakistani to malign India.

The question is :

did you appreciate because your were naive and did not understand the motive of the OP?

or 

did you seriously appreciated his effort knowing fully that he was trying to malign India?


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## Nilgiri

xeuss said:


> You will type up a thousand words to say how and why I am wrong. But cannot bring it to yourself to say a few words of support to Indian Muslims in a thread titled "History of Genocide of Muslims of India".
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies



I see no need, not even one bit to be part of your charade...of who is a friend and who is not a friend....by simply typing a "few words of support" in some specific way you want....that you will then further scuttle away later anyway.

I'd rather make friends with Muslims (Indians or others) outside of here and do and share things of greater and better relevance, consequence and endeavour. It goes for people in general I suppose. If the forum helps with that (and it has), I am thankful for it that way....don't really care for its other time-pass activities.

This place is only to let off some steam for me as I want (and maybe see what some knowledgeable friends are up to), rather than indulge in more emotionally-driven identity politics that is out there in the world plenty.

If this place can somehow change all that (to actually retain and sustain my interest on it now) "out there", it bears proving first. But its futile place for it....it can't and it won't. I let it atrophy where it needs to atrophy.

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## Thamizh Puli

masterchief_mirza said:


> Sadly, you only count as a loyal Indian when you are validated as such by Hindus. If you dare speak as though you have a right over your own destiny in your own land, you will be regarded as an upstart (at best). This is because you are a "guest" to the nation state of India. Herein lies the true nature of Indian "secularism".
> 
> Any Indian is more than welcome to correct my psychometric analysis if they so wish.



you are wrong. so there you stand corrected.


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## xeuss

MayaBazar said:


> The problem is with the title of this thread itself. This is nothing but a pure propaganda thread to malign India.
> 
> There was never a genocide of Muslims in India.
> 
> What India has from time to time are communal riots in why people belonging to all faiths have died equally.



So another of those "both sides" argument. 

I would be fine with even you stating this (all of the statement), instead of questioning my credentials as well us those who choose to speak on our behalf. 

Anyway, you object to the title of this thread. Fine. But do you disagree that any of the events listed were anything other than pogroms where Muslims were singled out and killed? Was any justice provided to the victims?

You can choose to turn a blind eye to these, because ultimately, we are the "others" in your society.


----------



## Naofumi

MM_Haider said:


> when Pakistan cane into being the total population of Muslims in whole Indian subcontinent was 92 million .. today Pakistan’s population alone is 220 Million .. (excluding then East Pakistan) .. it today’s Pakistan can feed 220 Million people it was not difficult to house 90 odd Muslims in East and West Pakistan or evening only in west Pakistan .. you declined Hijrat once .. you are Muhajir and damned forever .. you rejected Pakistan once .. you are rejected in your own country forever .. period!!!





MM_Haider said:


> Most of the Muslims live in Ghettoes in India where they don’t have any facilities .. from electricity to education .. they are already alienated .. they are already the poorest of the communities of India .. what economic benefit you are talking about?


Bwahahahahahahahahaha, there's something called a brain which you clearly lack. Resources grow with the pace of population, not with a quantum jump. Also, your national fertility rate is even greater than the most highest and backward of communities in India and was even greater than in past, what would you have done? Stop having babies to make space for us?
Secondly, Ghetto don't have electricity?   Go and google what a ghetto means.


----------



## xeuss

Nilgiri said:


> I see no need, not even one bit to be part of your charade...of who is a friend and who is not a friend....by simply typing a "few words of support" in some specific way you want....that you will then further scuttle away later anyway.
> 
> I'd rather make friends with Muslims (Indians or others) outside of here and do and share things of greater and better relevance, consequence and endeavour. It goes for people in general I suppose. If the forum helps with that (and it has), I am thankful for it that way....don't really care for its other time-pass activities.
> 
> This place is only to let off some steam for me as I want (and maybe see what some knowledgeable friends are up to), rather than indulge in more emotionally-driven identity politics that is out there in the world plenty.
> 
> If this place can somehow change all that (to actually retain and sustain my interest on it now) "out there", it bears proving first. But its futile place for it....it can't and it won't. I let it atrophy where it needs to atrophy.



So if this is just "letting off steam" for you. then why are you taking all the time in the world to criticize me, my actions, and wax endless eloquence about who should I get support from or not? How is that letting off steam? Why am I the object of your "letting off steam"? Get a girl if you want to let off steam for crying out loud.

The fact of the matter is, you cannot get yourself to even, offer some words of support. Even if those words are just to "let off steam"?


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## Nilgiri

xeuss said:


> So if this is just "letting off steam" for you. then why are you taking all the time in the world to criticize me, my actions, and wax endless eloquence about who should I get support from or not? How is that letting off steam? Why am I the object of your "letting off steam"? Get a girl if you want to let off steam for crying out loud.
> 
> The fact of the matter is, you cannot get yourself to even, offer some words of support. Even if those words are just to "let off steam"?



I simply said let the guy figure things out for himself, and dont need to sermon and steer him...and micromanage him as to who he should and shouldnt engage with and make common cause on something with.

Some lessons are best learned the long arduous way.

You make the choices you want to and you own them and fix them if needed in the end if you are rational and reasonable enough....just like the East Bengalis did...after the founding concept of faith-brotherhood at expense of all else that makes a nation tick came crashing down.

If you find people in remaining rump-state, conveniently split from the sordid affair by geography and much else..... that haven't learned from that, put a mental block on it even or even justify that grievous perpetration as good or fair (given this topic title is about the "genocide of muslims"...and that's clearly the biggest one done with full political direction and backing in the region and not very long ago either). If you find them as "sympathetic" to you...that is your finding to make...no one elses. No one should be concerned about it, you are the owner and bearer of your conscience....no one else.

If roles were reversed, I'm sorry I would not make any common cause with a country of hindus that genocided fellow hindus (and people of all faiths and identities in general to begin with)...simply because I am some Hindu like them and they assert or shower some sympathy to me in the current day as I live as a minority under oppression. Not till they come clean on it at the very least like the Germans did post-nuremberg. Its really that simple to me. I would not find them credible, I would not find their claim of support and sympathy genuine in the slightest. I would find it distasteful and repugnant. I would query each one specifically first on that subject, a clear litmus test on consistency for this topic....before accepting any support on the grander overall subject.

Who supports you on something is intrinsically linked to the why...as their support (on such hypocritical grounds) can, in fact will.... weaken your own position. That's my opinion and perspective. It need not be yours or anyone elses, and I do not impose them on anyone.

If its not so simple to you or a view you share at all, so be it...we are simply going to have to move on to another topic, there is nothing much left to say. This in fact will be my last post in this thread.

In the end the ongoing issue is by our people, it will have to be fixed by our people, no one else...its none of their business. People should also not have to be micromanaged on it and sermonized to, the avenues and attitudes that exist for doing so are rather the root of the problem and strife. The choices you make on everything is your right, as long as they do not impose on my rights. Nothing does so here obviously, so I simply said let it be and let what arises from it also be.

Yes this is somewhat blowing off steam too, you really think I am after changing your opinion or choices on this forum? Nope....I didn't even address you initially, I addressed the one trying to steer you in his own way...and told him theres a better way to proceed in my opinion....letting them be, and letting them learn things themselves. Most of my posts are for few worthies in the audience rather than specific members being quoted/replied to begin with.

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## Pakistani Fighter

Indus Pakistan said:


> Mmm this is our fault. While people @Pakistani Fighter came to free us look what happened to his people. Time for him to go back and free them?


So many Punjabis from Indian Punjab were massacred and forced to Pakistani Punjab by Sikhs and Hindus. Same case with 'Kashmiris' of Jammu



MM_Haider said:


> Wish Muslims had migrated to Pakistan in 1947. They refused one migration and are in constant migration within India since then. Wish they had stood for Kashmiris when they were undergoing Indian state sponsored terrorism... one could only wish for this!!!


British and Hindus ate up our land.


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## AfrazulMandal

MayaBazar said:


> There is no taboo. Either you want to taken seriously by Indians or Pakistanis. You cannot be both.


No. Muslims should not check the nationality of those extending sympathy to us. I know their State does lip service to us at best, but many Pakistanis genuinely wish to help us out. Something I can't say about Hindus in India (or Pakistan).



MayaBazar said:


> I do not have power to change anyone's opinion and I do not want to do it either.
> 
> @xeuss is a mature and educated man. He should decide what he wants to be.
> 
> I can only say @xeuss is currently a god's gift for the ultra right on both sides.


Nonsense.

Give a Muslim ONE thing - anonymity. And he/she will say the same things as xeuss and I do. Try it. Test it. Go to any of our 'ghettos' and do a social experiement. You will get the hint.



xeuss said:


> Would you care to clarify the "consequences of my actions"?


He is trying to point out that our own views are somehow responsible for the actions taken against us. We are responsible. Not them.



MayaBazar said:


> There was never a genocide of Muslims in India.


Fact: There has ONLY been Muslim genocides in Independent India. And of the Sikhs, but I guess they stand with you now.



Pakistani Fighter said:


> British and Hindus ate up our land.


Much more land went to Hindus, this is a fact.


----------



## dreamer11

India is do what is BEST for Country for a long time, like our founding forefathers BR Ambdekar and Sardar Vallabhai patel etc wished to do. 


Your FAKE VICTIM CARD R*R* is EXPIRED.


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## MM_Haider

Naofumi said:


> Bwahahahahahahahahaha, there's something called a brain which you clearly lack. Resources grow with the pace of population, not with a quantum jump. Also, your national fertility rate is even greater than the most highest and backward of communities in India and was even greater than in past, what would you have done? Stop having babies to make space for us?
> Secondly, Ghetto don't have electricity?   Go and google what a ghetto means.


just hysterically laughing won't make your point to be authentic.. in the past 7 decades Muslims have not been able to reap a single economic benefit .. so stop giving lame excuses.. and go back and do introspection as to why Muslims are subject to a perennial genocide and forced to live in ghettoes? if you can't do then see some brain specialist ..


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## MM_Haider

dreamer11 said:


> India is do what is BEST for Country for a long time, like our founding forefathers BR Ambdekar and Sardar Vallabhai patel etc wished to do.
> 
> 
> Your FAKE VICTIM CARD R*R* is EXPIRED.


Modern India is built on Islamohobia


Gandhi G in da house said:


> Everyone knows about the genocide of Hindus in Bangladesh by Pakistani forces in 1971 and in Kashmir also. Same with the genocide in Mumbai in 2008. These are all facts that no sane minded person can challenge. There is enough material out there about it, You can challenge the numbers for Bangladesh but the not the fact of genocide in itself.
> 
> GTFO here with your BS.


STFU you idiot .. Hindu terrorists are doing genocide of Muslims in India for the past seven decades and you come to f here justifying that with shoddy data ... this is not your godi media forum where you can get away with all your bullshit ... you should be ashamed of your community of what have they done to Muslims in India instead of justifying it..

@Foxtrot Alpha please look into this bhakt troll who is constantly derailing the thread and justifying the Muslims genocide in India.. thanks..

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## Amaa'n

@Gandhi G in da house wad not banned but instead issued infraction for trolling. since his infraction limit was full, landed him on the ban list

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## Pakistani Fighter

@Gandhi G in da house remember APS had India's Hands. No need to forget that


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## xeuss

Nilgiri said:


> I simply said let the guy figure things out for himself, and dont need to sermon and steer him...and micromanage him as to who he should and shouldnt engage with and make common cause on something with.
> 
> Some lessons are best learned the long arduous way.
> 
> You make the choices you want to and you own them and fix them if needed in the end if you are rational and reasonable enough....just like the East Bengalis did...after the founding concept of faith-brotherhood at expense of all else that makes a nation tick came crashing down.
> 
> If you find people in remaining rump-state, conveniently split from the sordid affair by geography and much else..... that haven't learned from that, put a mental block on it even or even justify that grievous perpetration as good or fair (given this topic title is about the "genocide of muslims"...and that's clearly the biggest one done with full political direction and backing in the region and not very long ago either). If you find them as "sympathetic" to you...that is your finding to make...no one elses. No one should be concerned about it, you are the owner and bearer of your conscience....no one else.
> 
> If roles were reversed, I'm sorry I would not make any common cause with a country of hindus that genocided fellow hindus (and people of all faiths and identities in general to begin with)...simply because I am some Hindu like them and they assert or shower some sympathy to me in the current day as I live as a minority under oppression. Not till they come clean on it at the very least like the Germans did post-nuremberg. Its really that simple to me. I would not find them credible, I would not find their claim of support and sympathy genuine in the slightest. I would find it distasteful and repugnant. I would query each one specifically first on that subject, a clear litmus test on consistency for this topic....before accepting any support on the grander overall subject.
> 
> Who supports you on something is intrinsically linked to the why...as their support (on such hypocritical grounds) can, in fact will.... weaken your own position. That's my opinion and perspective. It need not be yours or anyone elses, and I do not impose them on anyone.
> 
> If its not so simple to you or a view you share at all, so be it...we are simply going to have to move on to another topic, there is nothing much left to say. This in fact will be my last post in this thread.
> 
> In the end the ongoing issue is by our people, it will have to be fixed by our people, no one else...its none of their business. People should also not have to be micromanaged on it and sermonized to, the avenues and attitudes that exist for doing so are rather the root of the problem and strife. The choices you make on everything is your right, as long as they do not impose on my rights. Nothing does so here obviously, so I simply said let it be and let what arises from it also be.
> 
> Yes this is somewhat blowing off steam too, you really think I am after changing your opinion or choices on this forum? Nope....I didn't even address you initially, I addressed the one trying to steer you in his own way...and told him theres a better way to proceed in my opinion....letting them be, and letting them learn things themselves. Most of my posts are for few worthies in the audience rather than specific members being quoted/replied to begin with.



Yawn! Still lot of words to say absolutely nothing....but nothing to say about the issue at hand. 

How hard is it to say a few words of support for the Muslims of India?


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## padamchen

Pakistani Fighter said:


> @Gandhi G in da house remember APS had India's Hands. No need to forget that



Never.


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## KhanBaba2

xeuss said:


> Tell you something buddy - Pakistanis are far more sympathetic to us than you will ever, ever, ever be.



Why are you so special. After all they don't have any sympathy for the Uighur. And those Muslims are in a lot worse shape that you are. Are you sure they are not playing you.


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## dreamer11

MM_Haider said:


> Modern India is built on Islamohobia



why Islamophobia why not Buddhistophobia or Sikhophobia or Parsophobia or JewPhobia or any other phobia as they all exist in India and they are REAL MINORITY RELIGIONS in India?? 

What is your opinion on Buddhist Burma and Jewsish Israel and Atheist China(uighur) and etc??


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## xeuss

KhanBaba2 said:


> Why are you so special. After all they don't have any sympathy for the Uighur. And those Muslims are in a lot worse shape that you are. Are you sure they are not playing you.



There are two different things here. One is a governmental response, and the other is a general public response. 

The governmental response will always be subject to geopolitical concerns. Tomorrow if India and Pakistan make peace, I know the tweets from Imran Khan will dry up. Indian Muslims will be forgotten and left to their own devices.

The response of the public will generally be based on information available as well on individual prejudices. 
By and large, individual Pakistanis are more sympathetic to our plight. This more than what we get within our own country. You have seen the response of Indians here and around you, so I do not need to educate you on that.

My premise is simple. If anyone wants to advocate on our behalf, I would not object to it. I find our situation to be alarming enough to be left choosing on who should or should not speak on our behalf. I welcome all words of support, regardless of agenda or geopolitics. 

At the same time, if Indians do not want Pakistanis or Arabs or UN or US to speak on the behalf on Indian Muslims, they need to simply stop the abuses in India. It is as simple as that. The events cited in the original post were not concocted. They were events where Muslims were singled out and killed, and in most cases, received state sanction. To make matters worse, justice was never accorded in each of those instances. 

At the end, we are Muslims of India and deserve better than what we have been given. We just want to live in dignity and safety in India, where justice is served. Sadly, over the last 40 years or so, our situation has deteriorated.


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## padamchen

KhanBaba2 said:


> Why are you so special. After all they don't have any sympathy for the Uighur. And those Muslims are in a lot worse shape that you are. Are you sure they are not playing you.



Why are you wasting your time on an American Muslim?

There are Indian Muslims here who we would be better served engaging with.

People do not understand the definition of genocide firstly.

But of course the title will remain.

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## MM_Haider

dreamer11 said:


> why Islamophobia why not Buddhistophobia or Sikhophobia or Parsophobia or JewPhobia or any other phobia as they all exist in India and they are REAL MINORITY RELIGIONS in India??


because Muslims have ruled Hindu majority Hindustan from 10th century till 19th which is not digestible to Hindu supremacists ..


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## dreamer11

MM_Haider said:


> because Muslims have ruled Hindu majority Hindustan from 10th century till 19th which is not digestible to Hindu supremacists ..



Mongols(Persian mogals) ruled some parts of North India may be today pak and bd...... as South Indian i don't know about any of them.


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## MM_Haider

dreamer11 said:


> Mongols(Persian mogals) ruled some parts of North India may be today pak and bd...... as South Indian i don't know about any of them.


it happens when Islamophobia mainstreamed..


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## MM_Haider

dreamer11 said:


> IS facts == islamophobia.
> 
> Even my district RAJA/King prodigy STILL LIVES IN HIS PALACE (govt take over rest of the property) and u call some deserts barbarians ruled entire India.


Your post is reported for spreading islamophobia here .. 

FYI, those who you call barbarians gave culture to Hindustan .. this music, food, Biryani, clothing sense, architecture, systematic governance is all a gift of Muslim rulers.. which still haunts Hindu terrorist mindset that’s why there is hardly a year in past seven decades when Muslims are not attacked by Hindu mobs ..

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## KhanBaba2

padamchen said:


> Why are you wasting your time on an American Muslim?
> 
> There are Indian Muslims here who we would be better served engaging with.
> 
> People do not understand the definition of genocide firstly.
> 
> But of course the title will remain.



I have no problem engaging with any Muslim that does not go all "Islamic" on me and says things like Gazwa-e-Hind. I don't understand how to engage with those.


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## padamchen

KhanBaba2 said:


> I have no problem engaging with any Muslim that does not go all "Islamic" on me and says things like Gazwa-e-Hind. I don't understand how to engage with those.



Ok.

It's your time.


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## KhanBaba2

xeuss said:


> There are two different things here. One is a governmental response, and the other is a general public response.



I am talking about the people and not the government. Some of the Pakistani members here are consistent in their support of Muslims all over the world. But a lot are scared to criticize the Chinese even on a forum where everyone is anonymous.



xeuss said:


> At the end, we are Muslims of India and deserve better than what we have been given. We just want to live in dignity and safety in India, where justice is served. Sadly, over the last 40 years or so, our situation has deteriorated.



There have been a large number of anti Muslim riots in India. 

For most of India's existence, the rioters did not have the backing of the people in power. The current national government is different. 

This government came to power with two groups of supporters. The hardcore bhakts and those that hoped for a better economic performance that what the UPA gave. The second group is not very happy with this government. So maybe things will change with the next elections.

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## xeuss

KhanBaba2 said:


> I am talking about the people and not the government. Some of the Pakistani members here are consistent in their support of Muslims all over the world. But a lot are scared to criticize the Chinese even on a forum where everyone is anonymous.



No disagreement with you here. It is indeed disheartening. As a minority I can relate a lot with the Uighurs, and sympathize with their plight. 

Personally, I don't think they are scared. I think most simply refuse to believe what is going on in there, and think it all as US propaganda. 



KhanBaba2 said:


> There have been a large number of anti Muslim riots in India.
> 
> For most of India's existence, the rioters did not have the backing of the people in power. The current national government is different.
> 
> This government came to power with two groups of supporters. The hardcore bhakts and those that hoped for a better economic performance that what the UPA gave. The second group is not very happy with this government. So maybe things will change with the next elections.



In my opinion, things will have to get a lot worse and bloodier before anything improves. The hate that is in the hearts of people will not just go away with an election setback.

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## Naofumi

xeuss said:


> So you aren't going to take me seriously because I appreciated some words from Pakistanis?





xeuss said:


> By and large, individual Pakistanis are more sympathetic to our plight.


But is not this is the case of simple religious bigotry? I mean Pakistani Hindus along with other minorities are persecuted too so they supporting us seems hypocrites.



xeuss said:


> I welcome all words of support, regardless of agenda or geopolitics.


I don't think this approach is useful, consider CAA, is not this the same religious brotherhood that is the basis for its support? If we go down on the same path, then we won't have any rational argument left against that.


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## Pakistani Fighter

Naofumi said:


> I mean Pakistani Hindus along with other minorities are persecuted too so they supporting us seems hypocrites.


LOL Hindu Dalits of India are way more persecuted than Pakistani Hindus. Recent News

https://www.newindianexpress.com/st...lit-farmer-for-drilling-borewell-2156962.html
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ge-15-injured-2-held/articleshow/76453943.cms
https://indianexpress.com/article/c...ontent-against-woman-on-social-media-6464061/


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## Naofumi

Pakistani Fighter said:


> LOL Hindu Dalits of India are way more persecuted than Pakistani Hindus. Recent News
> 
> https://www.newindianexpress.com/st...lit-farmer-for-drilling-borewell-2156962.html
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ge-15-injured-2-held/articleshow/76453943.cms
> https://indianexpress.com/article/c...ontent-against-woman-on-social-media-6464061/


Dude, the comparison of scale is irrelevant (which is debatable itself [1][2][3]), the problem is selectivity - I think we should condemn every type of bigotry and NOT brush it under the carpet.


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## xeuss

Naofumi said:


> But is not this is the case of simple religious bigotry? I mean Pakistani Hindus along with other minorities are persecuted too so they supporting us seems hypocrites.
> 
> 
> I don't think this approach is useful, consider CAA, is not this the same religious brotherhood that is the basis for its support? If we go down on the same path, then we won't have any rational argument left against that.



You're just arguing for the sake of it, and not understanding the context of the arguments I made.

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## Naofumi

xeuss said:


> You're just arguing for the sake of it, and not understanding the context of the arguments I made.


I understood as I could, actually, read the whole damn thread. My simple point is that praising Pakistani support is hypocritical in the face of minority abuse in their own country, IF they are claiming higher moral ground then Indian Hindus otherwise everyone should be kind for victims of oppression but without putting themselves on higher ground. My 2 cents.


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## xeuss

Naofumi said:


> I understood as I could, actually, read the whole damn thread. My simple point is that praising Pakistani support is hypocritical in the face of minority abuse in their own country, IF they are claiming higher moral ground then Indian Hindus otherwise everyone should be kind for victims of oppression but without putting themselves on higher ground. My 2 cents.



Okay. I guess we should check the antecedents of every one that chooses to help us, or speak up for us. We certainly do have the luxury to do a background check on everyone that speaks two words of support for us.

Next time, when you take any help (in any matter) from anyone in the world, please be sure to check their entire background, and make sure that they never committed any crimes in their life, and beyond that, make sure that the the country or ethnic group they are from, has never had any history of abuse.

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## Naofumi

xeuss said:


> Okay. I guess we should check the antecedents of every one that chooses to help us, or speak up for us. We certainly do have the luxury to do a background check on everyone that speaks two words of support for us.
> 
> Next time, when you take any help (in any matter) from anyone in the world, please be sure to check their entire background, and make sure that they never committed any crimes in their life, and beyond that, make sure that the the country or ethnic group they are from, has never had any history of abuse.


You speak as if background check was even required in this case. Pakistani support does little given the relations between the countries, recent OIC episode is a good example. It's not me but the rest of the world replies that, including Arab Akhis. Moreover, an Indian Hindu is far better ally than a Pakistani Muslim simply because of being a citizen and hence having influence and say - our approach must not alienate them.


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## xeuss

Naofumi said:


> You speak as if background check was even required in this case. Pakistani support does little given the relations between the countries, recent OIC episode is a good example. It's not me but the rest of the world replies that, including Arab Akhis. Moreover, an Indian Hindu is far better ally than a Pakistani Muslim simply because of being a citizen and hence having influence and say - our approach must not alienate them.



Again, you did not understand the context of what I stated originally. You have not properly read what I stated, and have instead chosen to understand certain things in a way different than how it was said. Furthermore, your positioning this as if a binary choice has been made, speaks more of your lack of comprehension. 

I do not wish to belabor my points any further, as you will just take them on another tangent.

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## Naofumi

xeuss said:


> Again, you did not understand the context of what I stated originally. You have not properly read what I stated, and have instead chosen to understand certain things in a way different than how it was said. Furthermore, your positioning this as if a binary choice has been made, speaks more of your lack of comprehension.
> 
> I do not wish to belabor my points any further, as you will just take them on another tangent.


Fine by me. I already stated my thoughts.


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## Cliftonite

Naofumi said:


> You speak as if background check was even required in this case. Pakistani support does little given the relations between the countries, recent OIC episode is a good example. It's not me but the rest of the world replies that, including Arab Akhis. Moreover, an Indian Hindu is far better ally than a Pakistani Muslim simply because of being a citizen and hence having influence and say - our approach must not alienate them.




Is there any other country that raises a voice FOR YOU in the international stage? Maldives aur Bangladesh tak tou chup rehte hain. Ek hai country aap ke West pe jo aap ke liye awaaz utha leta hai. Thora grateful hojayein ge tou kuch bura nahi hojayega.

The sarkari Muslim a la Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi is strong with @Naofumi

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## Naofumi

Cliftonite said:


> Is there any other country that raises a voice FOR YOU in the international stage? Maldives aur Bangladesh tak tou chup rehte hain. Ek hai country aap ke West pe jo aap ke liye awaaz utha leta hai. Thora grateful hojayein ge tou kuch bura nahi hojayega.


I am grateful, of course but not at the cost of long-term consideration..



Cliftonite said:


> The sarkari Muslim a la Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi is strong with @Naofumi


Owaisi don't like Pakistan too, I am much more conceding than even Owaisi's stance...


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## xeuss

Cliftonite said:


> Is there any other country that raises a voice FOR YOU in the international stage? Maldives aur Bangladesh tak tou chup rehte hain. Ek hai country aap ke West pe jo aap ke liye awaaz utha leta hai. Thora grateful hojayein ge tou kuch bura nahi hojayega.



I really don't understand this aversion to Pakistan saying anything. If the US or UK had said something, then every Indian Muslim would be jumping with joy.

Much of this was based on the belief that if Pakistan says something, then Indian Muslims will suffer. Well, Indian Muslims suffer regardless. Pakistan saying or not saying anything has no bearing on the outcome. In any case, Pakistan and Pakistanis can just offer statements and sympathies, nothing more. So why get pissed off over that?

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## Naofumi

xeuss said:


> Well, Indian Muslims suffer regardless.


That's a defeatist attitude, for achieving goals, we should be conscious and deliberate, at least for optics.


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## Cliftonite

xeuss said:


> I really don't understand this aversion to Pakistan saying anything. If the US or UK had said something, then every Indian Muslim would be jumping with joy.
> 
> Much of this was based on the belief that if Pakistan says something, then Indian Muslims will suffer. Well, Indian Muslims suffer regardless. Pakistan saying or not saying anything has no bearing on the outcome. In any case, Pakistan and Pakistanis can just offer statements and sympathies, nothing more. So why get pissed off over that?


Haalaat badlein ge mere dost. I don't know when. But itni nafrat pe mubni koi bhi mulk ziada dair chal nahi sakta. Ya tou full on Rohingya style genocide ho jata hai (jo 250 million Muslims ka ho nahi sakta) ya phir civil war toot parti hai. You guys need to plan for the future. Ke jab finally kuch ho tou you are in a position to claim a state for yourself.

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## xeuss

Naofumi said:


> That's a defeatist attitude, for achieving goals, we should be conscious and deliberate, at least for optics.



Optics? Lol....okay.

Do you realize that you are just pandering to the boundaries set by the various shades of Sanghis? The boundary gets smaller every time.

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## padamchen

Sedition central.

@Soumitra kya khak sanghi bane ho?


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## Cliftonite

padamchen said:


> Sedition central.
> 
> @Soumitra kya khak sanghi bane ho?




None of these guys has talked of sedition. It's I who's talking of it. You guys set such impossible standards for your housepets I mean Muslims.


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## xeuss

padamchen said:


> Sedition central.
> 
> @Soumitra kya khak sanghi bane ho?



Sanghi mongrel calling for his master.

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## Naofumi

xeuss said:


> Optics? Lol....okay.
> 
> Do you realize that you are just pandering to the boundaries set by the various shades of Sanghis? The boundary gets smaller every time.


Optics are everything, otherwise why do you think US created false witnesses to invade Kuwait? Or claimed false WMD? Or Godi media's existence itself, even before 2014, it was all optics - media used specific keywords for specific optics which it don't use now. I don't know how stating the obvious makes me Sanghi but nevermind.


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## xeuss

Naofumi said:


> Optics are everything, otherwise why do you think US created false witnesses to invade Kuwait? Or claimed false WMD? Or Godi media's existence itself, even before 2014, it was all optics - media used specific keywords for specific optics which it don't use now. I don't know how stating the obvious makes me Sanghi but nevermind.



Wow...you really are all over the place.

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## Naofumi

xeuss said:


> Wow...you really are all over the place.


Lol, should I take it as appreciation?


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## xeuss

Naofumi said:


> Lol, should I take it as appreciation?



Usually it is a good thing, indicating that you are well read. But not in this case. You can subtract 10 points from your grade.


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## padamchen

Cliftonite said:


> None of these guys has talked of sedition. It's I who's talking of it. You guys set such impossible standards for your housepets I mean Muslims.



It's pretty clear.


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## AfrazulMandal

Naofumi said:


> You speak as if background check was even required in this case. Pakistani support does little given the relations between the countries, recent OIC episode is a good example. It's not me but the rest of the world replies that, including Arab Akhis. Moreover, an Indian Hindu is far better ally than a Pakistani Muslim simply because of being a citizen and hence having influence and say - our approach must not alienate them.


Did you become Hindu?

If not, may be you should.

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## Naofumi

AfrazulMandal said:


> Did you become Hindu?
> 
> If not, may be you should.


Lol, man. I am not religious nuts like you does not mean I will convert. Moreover, Hinduism is too backward a religion to convert to..

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## AfrazulMandal

Naofumi said:


> Lol, man. I am not religious nuts like you does not mean I will convert. Moreover, Hinduism is too backward a religion to convert to..


It seems you equate being religious to being a nut.


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## Naofumi

AfrazulMandal said:


> It seems you equate being religious to being a nut.


As a rule of thumb, yes but yeah exceptions exists.

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## AfrazulMandal

Naofumi said:


> As a rule of thumb, yes but yeah exceptions exists.


I understand.


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## xeuss

pothead said:


> Genocide of muslims?!!!
> 
> Surprising, are muslims native to India?
> They are not...so, how is genocide of people who don't belong to the land ever happen?
> 
> If it is about invaders, well, you can hardly call killing of people invading your lands as genocide.



Disgusting as you are, it is not surprising that you are supporting the killings of individuals.


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## Adonis

masterchief_mirza said:


> Ask Indian Muslims themselves if they'd rather come to Pakistan or stay and resist the eroding of their heritage and legacy.
> 
> If we evacuate Indian Muslims tomorrow hypothetically speaking, *mughal history in India will be erased. Indian Muslims are custodians of the same recent history that contributed to our own nation*. We know that Modi, Yogi and Shah would gladly erase mughal and Islamic heritage from the history books - they even cry about this in foreign countries like they give a damn - hence Pakistan will encourage Indian Muslims to proudly defend their legacy. It's their home that they built. Why should they leave? Anyway, you're asking the wrong person. Ask Indian Muslims.



I think we too have "erased"Chandragupta, Raja Dahir, Ashoka, Taxila....from our History books. Haven't we?....What our Hindus have been reduced to?

Hypocrisy is in our blood.....

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## padamchen

pothead said:


> If it is about invaders, well, you can hardly call killing of people invading your lands as genocide.



Excellent point.

There is a grey line there however.

What happens if the invader settles down on your land.

Is he still the invader and at what point does killing him move from rightful defence to genocide?

What if the invader marries a local woman and has kids with her.

Same questions.

Cheers, Doc


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## pothead

xeuss said:


> Disgusting as you are, it is not surprising that you are supporting the killings of individuals.



Facts are always disgusting.

At one point, whole of Pakistan & Afganistan was Hindus & Buddhists.
Now...thats what we call a genocide.

Perhaps you think natives being attacked and killed by outsiders is halal...

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## IMARV

xeuss said:


> Can you, for once, acknowledge the grief that we have gone through? Does our situation deserve no concern because of the mistreatment of other minorities in other countries?



Aww so cute. Can you once acknowledge what you lot make one go through, or its just perpetual victim card you want to play.

Or even better, lets celebrate conversion of Hagia Sophia into a mosque.

Or why not you start a thread of muslim atrocities on non muslims since Islam inception? Especially region called India where Islamic invader came to loot, uninvited.

Hypocrite like you make me sound like a right winger while having 9/10 friends as muslims in a muslim majority city.

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## padamchen

IMARV said:


> Aww so cute. Can you once acknowledge what you lot make one go through, or its just perpetual victim card you want to play.
> 
> Or even better, lets celebrate conversion of Hagia Sophia into a mosque.
> 
> Or why not you start a thread of muslim atrocities on non muslims since Islam inception? Especially region called India where Islamic invader came to loot, uninvited.
> 
> Hypocrite like you make me sound like a right winger while having 9/10 friends as muslims in a muslim majority city.



I did start a thread like that. The Islamic Genocide of Zoroastrians.

I was banned for a month and the thread deleted.

Reason: Peddling false narratives of history.

Cheers, Doc


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## masterchief_mirza

Adonis said:


> I think we too have "erased"Chandragupta, Raja Dahir, Ashoka, Taxila....from our History books. Haven't we?....What our Hindus have been reduced to?
> 
> Hypocrisy is in our blood.....


We will preserve that which is Pakistani. That includes the likes of Porus, Pingala, Chanakiya and the entirety of the IVC. That you feel that these parts of Pakistan's pre-Islamic heritage are "erased" is of no consequence to actual Pakistanis. 

Naturally, it does bring great pain to Indian Hindus who falsely co-opt another nation's history and legacy as their own because their own civilisation was dancing around mudhuts at the time when ours was reaching the heights of Egypt and Babylon.

@PAKISTANFOREVER it seems that many pdf folks continue to subtly implant the suggestion that we should devalue Pakistani heritage on the basis of religion. We should watch out for such religious extremism that occasionally slips out from characters like this @Adonis

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

masterchief_mirza said:


> We will preserve that which is Pakistani. That includes the likes of Porus, Pingala, Chanakiya and the entirety of the IVC. That you feel that these parts of Pakistan's pre-Islamic heritage are "erased" is of no consequence to actual Pakistanis.
> 
> Naturally, it does bring great pain to Indian Hindus who falsely co-opt another nation's history and legacy as their own because their own civilisation was dancing around mudhuts at the time when ours was reaching the heights of Egypt and Babylon.
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER it seems that many pdf folks continue to subtly implant the suggestion that we should devalue Pakistani heritage on the basis of religion. We should watch out for such religious extremism that occasionally slips out from characters like this @Adonis







Pakistani heritage is Pakistani heritage. It corresponds to ALL the civilisations that have existed in the area that is modern day Pakistan. That goes for our non-Muslim ancestors too. This has got NOTHING to do with non-Pakistanis WHATSOEVER. 

PS This adonis is probably not even a Pakistani. Most likely a gangu false-flagger. He previously claimed that indians have invented many things. When I told him to list them and provide the evidence he never responded.......  ......

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## saiyan0321

xeuss said:


> Disgusting as you are, it is not surprising that you are supporting the killings of individuals.



Individuals that are, without a doubt, not just natives of the land but also citizens of the country who have and their ancestors have, played an important role in the natural evolution of the region that would be called India. To declare all Muslims to be foreigners or outsiders is woefully ignorant but a narrative that has been peddled sometime, most notably being the works of gowalker on this issue, (who is revered by the RSS) and he peddled the theory that all Muslims are foreigners and should either be expelled or simply surrender to the will of the majority as they cannot claim special treatment as a right and anything, even second class citizen rights should be received as a grateful gift from the hindu majority. Infact he played a leading role from hindu side of the two nation theory. A person that claims that he does not support the RSS ideology or gowalker and yet peddles the theory that Muslims are foreigners and should be grateful that they are not being killed enmasse is contradicting himself and is a secret admirer of theirs. 

The role indian Muslims have played in united indian concept and later on in trying to make india a success cannot be understated and this is entirely documented stuff. It would even be absolutely flawed to blame the pakistani support entirely on indian Muslims as many of them played a prominent role in opposing the league. They held meetings, held workshops, led campaigns and all of this is documented stuff in the news and works of the Raj. 

The current indian muslim generation does have greivances but that doesn't mean that they are not loyal and the constant psychological attacks to peddle them as something foreign or to declare them as pakistani agents would be an attack on perhaps some of the most loyal people of the country.

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## Adonis

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> 1. *Pakistani heritage is Pakistani heritage. It corresponds to ALL the civilisations that have existed in the area that is modern day Pakistan. That goes for our non-Muslim ancestors too. This has got NOTHING to do with non-Pakistanis WHATSOEVER*.
> 
> PS This adonis is probably not even a Pakistani. Most likely a gangu false-flagger. He previously claimed that indians have invented many things. When I told him to list them and provide the evidence he never responded.......  ......



1. Why it is not part of your curriculum them?
2. What is gangu?...yes am' not Pakistani but Kiwi (of Pakistani descent)...any problem?

for my previous post, I didn't said they (Indian) invented but contributed/known for.... I gave reference of studies imparted in western universities...you want proof...google...if too lazy..forget...I am not here to convince you...people like you can't be convinced.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Adonis said:


> 1. Why it is not part of your curriculum them?
> 2. What is gangu?...yes am' not Pakistani but Kiwi (of Pakistani descent)...any problem?
> 
> for my previous post, I didn't said they (Indian) invented but contributed/known for.... I gave reference of studies imparted in western universities...you want proof...google...if too lazy..forget...I am not here to convince you...people like you can't be convinced.




Curriculum or not, the DNA, Genetic and Anthropological studies will prove in due course that Modern day Pakistanis are the progeny and descendants of that civilization. FAKE NEWS and propaganda from our enemies cannot change this inevitability. 

Sure you are of Pakistani descent and I am the King of Brazil and Germany.................................

So before you begin more false flagging, let's get back to what happened a few weeks ago. WHERE is the COMPELLING, CREDIBLE & GENUINE Western evidence that CONFIRMS that indians have invented ANY advanced sciences or technologies................... IF you are not lying then remember to post the links to the evidence here.

@masterchief_mirza

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## xeuss

IMARV said:


> Aww so cute. Can you once acknowledge what you lot make one go through, or its just perpetual victim card you want to play.
> 
> Or even better, lets celebrate conversion of Hagia Sophia into a mosque.
> 
> Or why not you start a thread of muslim atrocities on non muslims since Islam inception? Especially region called India where Islamic invader came to loot, uninvited.
> 
> Hypocrite like you make me sound like a right winger while having 9/10 friends as muslims in a muslim majority city.



The thing is that the response from you and your ilk is always the same regurgitated tropes of whataboutery. Obviously you don't deny the atrocities that Muslims face. You take immense joy in them. You just think that you can justify them by pointing out irrelevant incidents in the other parts of the world.

Also, I am concerned for the safety of Muslims you refer to as "friends". History for the last 70 years has shown us, that the people who committed the pogroms against Muslims were the Hindu "friends and neighbors".

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## masterchief_mirza

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Curriculum or not, the DNA, Genetic and Anthropological studies will prove in due course that Modern day Pakistanis are the progeny and descendants of that civilization. FAKE NEWS and propaganda from our enemies cannot change this inevitability.
> 
> Sure you are of Pakistani descent and I am the King of Brazil and Germany.................................
> 
> So before you begin more false flagging, let's get back to what happened a few weeks ago. WHERE is the COMPELLING, CREDIBLE & GENUINE Western evidence that CONFIRMS that indians have invented ANY advanced sciences or technologies................... IF you are not lying then remember to post the links to the evidence here.
> 
> @masterchief_mirza


I feel that Indians should restrict themselves to discussions pertaining to individuals who are reliably proven to be "out of India", ostensibly referring to the gangetic basin. The precise relationship between the IVC (which modern Indians FALSELY claim) and the gangetic basin is complex and there is certainly evidence of genetic diffusion, but gangetic sympathisers should be sure of one thing, that diffusion is historically from west to east. The IVC has nothing to do with the gangetic progeny, other than this genetic diffusion over time. For undefined reasons, the IVC collapsed and its remnants fled to the east, most probably before the Aryan influx from the north. 

It is extremely important to define clearly how modern India has usurped the history of the entire subcontinent (not just Pakistan btw; their claims over Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are equally legendary).

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## masterchief_mirza

My final point on this matter is a reminder that this genetic reality should in no way prejudice or predicate those who have in the past migrated to Pakistani lands (e.g. when the British left). Pakistan is as much an idea or an ideal as it is an expression of ancient DNA. Our nation is constituted by both original descendants and those who later subscribed to Jinnah's ideals as an expression of the modern state of Pakistan. Both peoples are entirely equal and in our eyes, indistinguishable. One is reminded of the original Makkans and Medinans together constituting the first unified expression of an Islamic empire. In the same way, those who were descendants of the Pakistani soil and those from afar who subscribed wholly to its ideals are in fact one and the same. The revisionist approach of hindutva elements can only be resisted by a unified and meritocratic stance.

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## ayodhyapati

MM_Haider said:


> Normally we Pakistanis only know the genocide of Muslims being committed by India in Kashmir or if someone reads newspaper would know about massacre of Muslims in 2002 in Gujrat but the fact is that there has been hardly a year when Muslims are not subjected to genocide in past 70 years .. when it comes to hate towards Muslims - Congress and BJP are just two sides of the same coin..
> 
> Here is a brief summary.
> 
> *1. Calcutta Muslim Genocide - 1964 *
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/13/newsid_4098000/4098363.stm
> Over 100 Muslims killed by Hindu mobs and 70,000 rendered homeless. BBC wrote , "So far more than 70,000 Muslims have fled their homes in the city, and 55,000 are sleeping in the open under army protection".
> As per NY Times, the riots were initiated by Hindus.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1964/01/12/...-60-in-riots-hindu-mob-kills-3-policemen.html
> 
> *2. Bhiwandi Muslim Genocide - 1970 *
> 
> Thousands on Muslims' houses were burnt. 200 Muslims killed between 7 and 8 May 1970. When RSS terrorists unleashed wrath on innocent Muslims.
> 
> Following the incident the Indian government formed a Commission headed by Justice Dinshah Pirosha Madon. The final report from the commission ran to seven volumes and was highly critical of the police for their failure to prevent the riots, the report was also highly critical of Shiv Sena for their part in the violence.
> 
> According to the Madon report of those arrested during the violence 324 were Hindu and 2183 were Muslim. The Madon report was highly critical of the police, stating that their action showed a clear "anti-Muslim bias". According to K. Jaishankar, of those arrested for clearly identifiable crimes during the violence in 1970, 21 were Hindu and 901 were Muslim, a figure disproportionate to the numbers of casualties (which Jaishankar gives as 17 Hindus and 59 Muslims).
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhiwandi_riots
> 
> The commission was categorical: “The organisation which has both directly and indirectly provoked the disturbances which took place in Bhiwandi, Khoni and Nagaon on May 7, 1970 and thereafter is the Rashtriya Utsav Mandal, the majority of the members of which belonged to the Jan Sangh or were pro-Jan Sangh, and the rest, apart from a few exceptions, to the Shiv Sena.”
> 
> https://www.nchro.org/index.php/2000/03/22/bhiwandi-riots-1970-judicial-report-on-rss-participation/
> 
> *3. Muradabad Muslims' Genocide - 1980*
> 
> Over 2500 Muslims massacred with police as accomplice.
> On August 13, 1980, a broad daylight massacre had occurred at the biggest Eidgah in Moradabad district of Uttar Pradesh when Muslims were offering Eid prayers. A domesticated Ppig was unleashed into the gathering. Muslims protested but police opened fire on them.
> Around 40,000 Muslims had gathered at the Eidgah to offer annual prayers when a contingent of the state police and Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) opened fire and around 300 Muslims were killed.
> Justice MP Saxena Commission report on the Moradabad massacare has not be tabled yet.
> 
> http://www.indiatomorrow.net/eng/this-day-39-years-ago-what-had-happened-at-eidgah-in-moradabad
> 
> *4. Nellie Muslims' Genocide - 1983*
> 
> Over 5000 Muslims were slaughtered with sharpened instruments in 1983 by Hindu terrorists. On the ‘Black Friday’ of February 18, 1983, when the 8-hour-long Nellie Massacre took place in central Assam's Nagaon district (now Morigaon). The carnage is estimated to have left over 5,000 people dead, including the elderly and children. The official reports, however, put the death toll at only 1,819. Victims were barricaded for 6 months before undergoing slaughter and facing the worst face of Hindu terror.
> "The Tiwari Commission report (not officially published yet) has blamed the AASU and the Bharatiya Janata Party among others for the violence unleashed on the alleged Bangladeshi people."
> This massacre is known as the worst one after WWII. Most of those who were slaughtered with knives were kids and women.
> https://www.newsclick.in/nellie-198...ay-they-had-been-barricaded-6-months-massacre
> 
> *5. Hashimpura Massacre - 1987*
> 
> The killings of of 42 Muslim men took place during a riot in Meerut in 1987 when the victims were picked up from the Hashimpura neighbourhood by the 41st Battalion of the PAC during a search operation.
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/hashimpura-massacre-a-timeline-1379612-2018-10-31
> 
> *6. Bhagalpur Muslims' Genocide - 1989*
> 
> The Bhagalpur riots of 1989 refers to the violence between the Hindus and the Muslims in the Bhagalpur of Bihar, India. The riots started on 24 October 1989, and the violent incidents continued to happen for 2 months. The violence affected the Bhagalpur city and 250 villages around it. Over 1,000 people (around 900 of which were Muslims), were killed, and another 50,000 were displaced as a result of the violence. It was the worst Hindu-Muslim violence in independent India at the time.
> 
> According to official figures 1,070 people were killed & 524 injured. 15 out of 21 blocks of Bhagalpur were affected by the riots. 11,500 houses in 195 villages were destroyed, displacing 48,000 people. 68 mosques and 20 mazars were destroyed.
> 
> The Chandheri (also spelled Chanderi) village was attacked from three sides by the people from the adjoining villages on the evening of 27 October. The Yadavs of the neighbouring settlement had disapproved of the construction of a mosque in the village. The attackers set the mosque on the fire, along with some houses, killing 5 people.
> 
> At the Logain village, 116 Muslims were killed by a 4000-strong mob led by the police officer Ramchander Singh. The perpetrators buried the bodies in fields, and then planted cauliflower over the mass grave to hide the evidence. 14 people, including the former police officer, were convicted and sentenced to rigorous life imprisonment for the killings, in 2007.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Bhagalpur_violence
> 
> *7. Bombay Muslims' Genocide - 1992 *
> 
> The violence that scorched the Waghchores and their neighbours was just one episode in the intense riots that consumed India’s commercial capital after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in faraway Ayodhya on December 6, 1992. The destruction of the shrine sparked riots across India, but the violence was most intense in Mumbai – which was still known as Bombay at the time. Approximately 900 Mumbai residents were left dead in two bursts of rioting in December 1992 and January 1993.
> 
> The violence was widely reported as having been orchestrated by the Shiv Sena. An estimated 575 Muslims were martyred by Hindu terrorists.
> 
> *8 - Pangal Muslims' Genocide - 1993*
> 
> on 3 May 1993, the massacre of Pangal occured , when an indigenous Muslims community in Manipur, India, was attacked by the Meitie, who are the majority ethnic group of Manipur and are largely Hindu.
> 
> There are conflicting accounts of what started the violence, one account says Hindu separatists tried to buy arms from a Muslim arms smuggler and were rebuffed. Another account says that the Hindu rebels were trying to extort from a Muslim village who resisted and killed one of the rebel. The violence started on 3 May 1993 and continued will into the 5th May. Bus containing Muslims passengers were set on fire and clashes took places between Pangal and Meitei. People were killed in the roads; homes and shops were burned down. An estimated 90 to 130 people were killed.
> https://www.firstpost.com/india/jnu...ent-responds-with-authors-arrest-8257101.html
> 
> Genocide of Muslims in Gujrat in 2002 and recently in Delhi in 2020 are anyway a simile of Hindu terror unleashed on Indian Muslims.
> 
> ========================================================
> Wish Muslims had migrated to Pakistan in 1947. They refused one migration and are in constant migration within India since then. Wish they had stood for Kashmiris when they were undergoing Indian state sponsored terrorism... one could only wish for this!!!


muslims are alive happy and kicking in INDIA.


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## pothead

padamchen said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> There is a grey line there however.
> 
> What happens if the invader settles down on your land.
> 
> Is he still the invader and at what point does killing him move from rightful defence to genocide?
> 
> What if the invader marries a local woman and has kids with her.
> 
> Same questions.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Then the first thing that should happen is these invaders acknowledge what they did to locals.

Instead we get these stupid threads.
This stupid thread deserves exactly my kind of answer.


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## masterchief_mirza

ayodhyapati said:


> muslims are alive happy and kicking in INDIA.


This is your response to the litany of human massacres that the member just posted? The modern nation state of India is accused of these genocides. This isn't some medieval pogrom. This is the independent Secular republic whose name is being besmirched and this is your response? Plenty of Indian Muslims are alive and breathing today who will have vivid recollection of the events listed, never mind having to hunt for some old report. 

You must be one of those typical "secular/moderate/progressive/atheist/all of the above" types who frequent this forum...ironically only really piping up when threads mention the experiences of muslims in India.

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## xeuss

SaffronNazis:
Muslims are invaders

Also SaffronNazis:
Muslims are Dalit converts

Intellectual honesty is nonexistent among these bigots.

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## padamchen

pothead said:


> Then the first thing that should happen is these invaders acknowledge what they did to locals.
> 
> Instead we get these stupid threads.
> This stupid thread deserves exactly my kind of answer.



Who do you want doing the acknowledging in India or Pakistan.

Do you honestly believe any of the Muslims in these two countries did any invading?

Please.

Cheers, Doc

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## masterchief_mirza

xeuss said:


> SaffronNazis:
> Muslims are invaders
> 
> Also SaffronNazis:
> Muslims are Dalit converts


Some of your work should be copyrighted. This is totally bang on the mark!

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## pothead

padamchen said:


> Who do you want doing the acknowledging in India or Pakistan.
> 
> Do you honestly believe any of the Muslims in these two countries did any invading?
> 
> Please.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



There is absolutely no reason for me to care.
As far as I am concerned, I am the victim.

My lands were attacked, millions killed, tens of thousands destroyed, generations lost.

Simply put, I don't really care.....especially when I constantly told they are victims, when history is otherwise.

Imagine if some one asking blacks in US if they believe whites in US today did slavery?
or imagine where Whites are being told they are the victims of historical black violence.


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## ayodhyapati

xeuss said:


> SaffronNazis:
> Muslims are invaders
> 
> Also SaffronNazis:
> Muslims are Dalit converts
> 
> Intellectual honesty is nonexistent among these bigots.



propaganda of victim card holders anti hindu anti india front . we know how to counter it .


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## Adonis

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Curriculum or not, the DNA, Genetic and Anthropological studies will prove in due course that Modern day Pakistanis are the progeny and descendants of that civilization. FAKE NEWS and propaganda from our enemies cannot change this inevitability.
> 
> Sure you are of Pakistani descent and I am the King of Brazil and Germany.................................
> 
> So before you begin more false flagging, let's get back to what happened a few weeks ago. WHERE is the COMPELLING, CREDIBLE & GENUINE Western evidence that CONFIRMS that indians have invented ANY advanced sciences or technologies................... IF you are not lying then remember to post the links to the evidence here.
> 
> @masterchief_mirza



So you are blaming me for diversion and at the same time escaping yourself on the question...."Studies will prove"....so you are ashamed of teaching your kids your non-Islamic history, half of your population is still figuring out yur origin (Arab, Turk, Mongol, etc etc) and yet per your convenience, claim to be so of soil when it suits you.....Fake news/Propaganda.by *your enemies*...is it?... 









What is the most blatant lie taught through Pakistan textbooks?


Writers and commentators, well versed in history, share the biggest inaccuracies in Pakistan history textbooks.



www.dawn.com













‘Our children being taught distorted history against Jinnah’s vision’


Karachi Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah had envisioned a Pakistan where the rights of minorities would be safeguarded but unfortunately, the history being taught to children in the country is...




www.thenews.com.pk













UNESCO report says Pakistani textbook promote ‘militarism and war’


United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in its Global Education Monitoring Report 2017-18 has expressed concerns over textbooks in many countries, particularly Pakist




archive.pakistantoday.com.pk













What are we teaching our children? | The Express Tribune


Perhaps ‘operation brainwashing’ has succeeded at many levels.




tribune.com.pk






On my origin....I don't give a hoot to what you think...you don't matter to me.

On Indian scientific achievements...I'd give various links before...If you guys do not want to accept it as truth...Good on you...Move on. By the way, why you are so hell-bent on proofs related to science about your neighbour...Do you have piles of it in your country?....you should first tell your countrymen to allow polio drops and eradicate this disease...It's no where in the world but for your country.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Adonis said:


> So you are blaming me for diversion and at the same time escaping yourself on the question...."Studies will prove"....so you are ashamed of teaching your kids your non-Islamic history, half of your population is still figuring out yur origin (Arab, Turk, Mongol, etc etc) and yet per your convenience, claim to be so of soil when it suits you.....Fake news/Propaganda.by *your enemies*...is it?...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the most blatant lie taught through Pakistan textbooks?
> 
> 
> Writers and commentators, well versed in history, share the biggest inaccuracies in Pakistan history textbooks.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Our children being taught distorted history against Jinnah’s vision’
> 
> 
> Karachi Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah had envisioned a Pakistan where the rights of minorities would be safeguarded but unfortunately, the history being taught to children in the country is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenews.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNESCO report says Pakistani textbook promote ‘militarism and war’
> 
> 
> United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in its Global Education Monitoring Report 2017-18 has expressed concerns over textbooks in many countries, particularly Pakist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> archive.pakistantoday.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are we teaching our children? | The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> Perhaps ‘operation brainwashing’ has succeeded at many levels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tribune.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On my origin....I don't give a hoot to what you think...you don't matter to me.
> 
> On Indian scientific achievements...I'd give various links before...If you guys do not want to accept it as truth...Good on you...Move on. By the way, why you are so hell-bent on proofs related to science about your neighbour...Do you have piles of it in your country?....you should first tell your countrymen to allow polio drops and eradicate this disease...It's no where in the world but for your country.






Do you think you are able to eradicate open defecation by over 732 million people?........ :

https://www.livemint.com/Politics/1...lion-Indians-dont-have-access-to-toilets.html

PS You do realize that the sources you used are opinion pieces and not facts..........

Over a month later and you STILL have not been able to find ANY evidence for your initial claims.........

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## Adonis

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Do you think you are able to eradicate open defecation by over 732 million people?........ :
> 
> https://www.livemint.com/Politics/1...lion-Indians-dont-have-access-to-toilets.html
> 
> PS You do realize that the sources you used are opinion pieces and not facts..........
> 
> *Over a month later and you STILL have not been able to find ANY evidence for your initial claims.........*



Don't know about open defecation... 

On bold...sources are from your country of Origin.....

Otherwise, go to Oxford Archives and find it for yourself...

By the way as I said...people like you, who can't accept reality and live in denial..can't be persuaded....









Indians predated Newton 'discovery' by 250 years


A little known school of scholars in southwest India discovered one of the founding principles of modern mathematics hundreds of years before Newton according to new research. Dr George Gheverghese Joseph from The University of Manchester says the 'Kerala School' identified the 'infinite...




www.manchester.ac.uk













Illuminating India | Science Museum


Illuminating India was a season of events and exhibitions celebrating India’s contribution to science, technology and mathematics throughout the world.




www.sciencemuseum.org.uk




.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Adonis said:


> Don't know about open defecation...
> 
> On bold...sources are from your country of Origin.....
> 
> Otherwise, go to Oxford Archives and find it for yourself...
> 
> By the way as I said...people like you, who can't accept reality and live in denial..can't be persuaded....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indians predated Newton 'discovery' by 250 years
> 
> 
> A little known school of scholars in southwest India discovered one of the founding principles of modern mathematics hundreds of years before Newton according to new research. Dr George Gheverghese Joseph from The University of Manchester says the 'Kerala School' identified the 'infinite...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.manchester.ac.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illuminating India | Science Museum
> 
> 
> Illuminating India was a season of events and exhibitions celebrating India’s contribution to science, technology and mathematics throughout the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencemuseum.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .








The first source states that there is "circumstantial evidence" for the discoveries that predate Isaac Newton's discoveries. It's not confirmed. In the second source, indians did not invent space cameras or cameras per say. The indians are using space technology and the inventions of white europeans for their space program. WHERE is the evidence that 1.4 billion indians have EVER invented ANY advanced sciences or technologies?.....Over a month later, you are still failing............

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## Adonis

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The first source states that there is "circumstantial evidence" for the discoveries that predate Isaac Newton's discoveries. It's not confirmed. In the second source, indians did not invent space cameras or cameras per say. The indians are using space technology and the inventions of white europeans for their space program. WHERE is the evidence that 1.4 billion indians have EVER invented ANY advanced sciences or technologies?.....Over a month later, you are still failing............



Yup..I failed....You Won. Let the world believe what they do...you must insist on Evidence....and keep yourself secured from realities.

Anyways.... Good Luck with wasting someone else's time now...am' done with you.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Adonis said:


> Yup..I failed....You Won. Let the world believe what they do...you must insist on Evidence....and keep yourself secured from realities.
> 
> Anyways.... Good Luck with wasting someone else's time now...am' done with you.



What a weakling you lot are, you reported him because he was debating with you?

How much more cowardly can you be?

Getting in the last word after someone is banned, very brave.

56 inch chest and all.

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## Signalian

Marching Towards Murder in Modi’s India​
*Genocide Watch, having clearly defined the stages to genocide, has called India out for carrying out one against the Muslim minority. With a global organization’s warning of an impending genocide, it is imperative to hold India accountable for its unchecked actions.*






Genocide isn’t an event. Members of a nation, race or religion don’t wake up one fine morning and decide to eliminate an entire group of people. No; genocide is a process, and like every process it has certain stages – ten to be exact if we go by the steps listed by an organization known as Genocide Watch (GW) which “exists to predict, prevent, stop, and punish genocide and other forms of mass murder.” Their credentials are impressive: Genocide Watch was founded by Dr. Gregory H. Stanton in 1999. Stanton was a research professor in genocide studies and prevention and was the founder and director of the Cambodian Genocide Project. Apart from having served as the president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, he has also drafted the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions that created the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda. This partial, yet lengthy, introduction means that when Stanton and his organization send a warning about an impending genocide, it should be taken seriously.

In January of this year, Stanton spoke before a U.S. Congressional briefing titled ‘Call for genocide of Indian Muslims’, which was organized by the Indian American Muslim Council, and warned that what happened in Rwanda, where Hutu extremists murdered hundreds of thousands of Tutsis, could easily happen in India. This isn’t the first warning he has given; Stanton first warned of an impending genocide in India after the 2002 Gujarat riots and then issued a genocide alert in December 2020 saying that under the rule of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, India had ‘worsened anti-muslim violence and caste oppression’ and that India was rapidly progressing through the stages of genocide. As per GW, the ten stages of Genocide are: Classification, in which populations are polarized and divided into ‘us and them’ on the basis of ethnicity, race or religion. We can see that this is certainly the case in India. Then there is Symbolization, in which names or symbols are attached to the classifications and this too is rampant. The third stage is Discrimination, in which ‘A dominant group uses law, customs, and political power to deny the rights of other groups.’ Then comes Dehumanization, in which members of the target group are ‘equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases’ thus overcoming ‘the normal human revulsion against murder.’ At this stage,’ writes Genocide Watch, hate propaganda in print, on radios, and social media is used to vilify the victim group. It may even be incorporated into school textbooks. Indoctrination prepares the way for incitement. The majority group is taught to regard the other group as less than human, and even alien to their society.’
*In January of this year, Stanton spoke before a U.S. Congressional briefing titled ‘Call for genocide of Indian Muslims’, which was organized by the Indian American Muslim Council, and warned that what happened in Rwanda, where Hutu extremists murdered hundreds of thousands of Tutsis, could easily happen in India.*
*If you see what has been happening in India since Modi came to power – the Gujarat riots were a test case/prelude for the overall strategy now in place on a state level – it becomes clear that nearly all of the stages of genocide are in process. Note that this isn’t the Holocaust, or at least not yet, and there are no death camps or crematoriums in operation. This is more of a slow-motion genocide, one that will be carried out over the years and maybe decades.*
Stage five is Organization, without which no genocide is possible, and this is usually done at a state level. In India, GW points out, this is largely the domain of mobs led by the local RSS (and affiliates’) leaders, though of course one must add that such ‘informal’ organizations would not be truly effective without state cover and support as was seen in the Delhi riots where the local police generally turned a blind eye to anti-Muslim pogroms where it did not actually support the attackers.

Then comes Polarisation in which, having progressed through the previous stages, extremists make sure that the target groups and the majority are driven further apart and laws are introduced to forbid intermarriage or social interaction. In this stage “The dominant group passes emergency laws or decrees that grants them total power over the targeted group. The laws erode fundamental civil rights and liberties. Targeted groups are disarmed to make them incapable of self-defense, and to ensure that the dominant group has total control.”

After this, there is Preparation, where the ‘final solution’ is planned. Here euphemisms come into play where murderous goals are ‘sanitized’ by referring to them as ethnic cleansing, defence of culture, or purification. Mobs and militias are armed and the population is indoctrinated. Following this is Persecution and Extermination and then, when its all over, there is Denial. Here the evidence is destroyed and the victims are blamed.

Having read this list, also note that according to GW “The process is not linear. Stages may occur simultaneously. Each stage is itself a process. Logically, later stages are preceded by earlier stages. But all stages continue to operate throughout the process.”
*In India we have none other than Amit Shah himself refer to Muslims as ‘termites’ who need to be crushed. The founder of RSS, Dr. Hedgewar, also famously referred to Muslims as ‘snakes’. This is, of course, by design. It is meant to overcome the natural revulsion a human being feels when asked to murder another human being. Thus, you must first rob the target of his or her humanity itself.*
*When it comes to the outright hate-mongering propaganda channels like OpIndia, this is the actual editorial policy: as per a former employee of OpIndia, “If the accused in an incident belongs to the Muslim community, then you have to mention his name in the heading. The news is to be published in such a way that if the reader is a Hindu, then he starts developing hatred for Muslims.”*

And now, if you see what has been happening in India since Modi came to power – the Gujarat riots were a test case/prelude for the overall strategy now in place on a state level – it becomes clear that nearly all of the stages of genocide are in process. Note that this isn’t the Holocaust, or at least not yet, and there are no death camps or crematoriums in operation. This is more of a slow-motion genocide, one that will be carried out over the years and maybe decades. It is a process of cultural elimination, economic marginalization, and constant, continuous demonization from the highest officials of the state, aided by a subservient and equally rabid media. And of course, it will be, and is being, punctuated with sporadic pogroms and massacres. All this is visible: individuals are beaten and lynched on the slightest provocation and the attackers proudly record their crimes to display on social media where they are cheered on by the fellow adherents of this poisonous ideology. The examples of this are already too many to count, and that too is part of the plan: to increase the frequency of atrocity and repression to the extent that it becomes ‘normal’. 

Dr. Stanton compared the situation developing in India to the prelude to the Rwandan genocide, and here there are clear parallels not only with Rwanda but also Nazi Germany. One is the campaign of dehumanization: in Nazi Germany, print media was widely used to label Jews as rats and vermin. In Rwanda, the preferred medium was radio, where the targeted Tutsis were called ‘cockroaches.’ In India we have none other than Amit Shah himself refer to Muslims as ‘termites’ who need to be crushed. The founder of RSS, Dr. Hedgewar, also famously referred to Muslims as ‘snakes’. This is, of course, by design. It is meant to overcome the natural revulsion a human being feels when asked to murder another human being. 

Thus, you must first rob the target of his or her humanity itself.

The other parallel is the laying of historical blame: In both Nazi Germany and Rwanda, the target populations were made to bear the entire burden of the (often manufactured or exaggerated) misdeed of their ancestors. The same is seen in India where the Mughals are maligned to such an extent that actual historians, who attempt to set the record straight, are hounded and vilified. Then, the entire Muslim population is made answerable for those said misdeeds. This tallies with attempts to paint the target population as ‘foreign’ and ‘alien’ and often part of a conspiracy against the majority. In Germany, the Jews were accused of being behind an international conspiracy to destroy Germany and the White race. In Rwanda, the Tutsis were accused of being proxies of the Belgian colonists. Again, the same is being systematically done in India.

Another common thread is the creation of a constant state of hysteria to convince the majority population that the target group is out to destroy them: this is achieved by highlighting isolated crimes and presenting them as attacks by the target group on the majority. In Rwanda, this was achieved by only highlighting crimes and attacks by Tutsi criminals which were then tested and spun in such a way as to make it seem that the Hutus faced an imminent threat from the Tutsis. In India, this job is done through mainstream and social media, where fake news that is to the detriment of the Muslim population is breathlessly reported with no concern for the veracity of the information. When it comes to the outright hate-mongering propaganda, channels like _OpIndia_, this is the actual editorial policy: as per a former employee of _OpIndia_, “If the accused in an incident belongs to the Muslim community, then you have to mention his name in the heading. The news is to be published in such a way that if the reader is a Hindu, then he starts developing hatred for Muslims.”

An example of how this is done is when a doctor in Hyderabad was raped and murdered and, while three of the four criminals were Hindu, _OpIndia_ only named and highlighted the one Muslim killer, Muhammad Pasha.

As for social media, a recent investigation by _The Wire _revealed the existence of a ‘secret’ app called Tek Fogg which was used by the Bharatiya Janata Party’s (BJP) IT cell to manipulate trends, highlight hateful narratives, and create and spread fake news across many social media platforms. In particular it was also used to target critics of the BJP government’s policies with death and rape threats.

Songs too play a role and in Rwanda; the musical background for the genocide was provided by singers like Simon Bikindi, popularizing lyrics that commanded “Kill the cockroaches if they are against Hutus,” and “the motherland (Rwanda) belongs only to Hutus, everyone else is a parasite”. Again, in India, we also see that similar songs are gaining popularity such as Vuran Bahar’s hate anthem which recently went viral and contains lyrics like “Those who refuse to chant_ Jai Sri Ram_ will be sent to the graveyard”.

And while the immediate and most visible targets of this campaign are Muslims, it is also intended to send a larger signal. Writing on India’s new genocidalist direction, Arjun Appadurai says: “The campaign to terrorise Muslims by calls for their genocide is a signal to the farmers, Dalits and other resisting groups to be careful, lest they also become objects of genocidalism. The other prong is a recruitment strategy, to draw members of these groups into the Hindutva umbrella by giving them active roles in the new genocidalism. This dual strategy is intended to regulate the speed with which the genocidal machinery needs to be ratcheted up, while also providing some of the labour needs for the genocidal project wherever possible.”

One can still hope that better sense prevails, but if history is any guide then this can only end in blood and slaughter. And, before the rest of the world wrings its hands and says there was no way they could have known what was going to happen, let it be stated on the record that they were warned repeatedly and did nothing.
The writer has worked extensively in Pakistan's print and electronic media and is currently hosting a talk show on a private TV channel.
E-mail: zarrar.khuhro@gmail.com









Marching Towards Murder in Modi’s India


Genocide Watch, having clearly defined the stages to genocide, has called India out for carrying out one against the Muslim minority. With a global organization’s warning of an impending genocide, it is imperative to hold India accountable for its unchecked actions. Genocide isn’t an event...




www.hilal.gov.pk

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