# What is the Best fighter jet for Pakistan Navy Aviation?



## Max The Boss

What is the Best fighter jet for Pakistan Navy Aviation?

1)	F-18 Super Hornet
2)	Typhoon
3)	Rafale
4)	Su-35BM
5)	J-10B
6)	Gripen
7)	Mig-35D
8)	J-11B


If Pakistan Navy Aviation has fighter jets it can protect ports itself without help from Pakistan Air force.

Getting fighter jets for Pakistan Navy Aviation will directly benefit Pakistan Air force because Pakistan Air force can save time to do other Air Defense activists.


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## PAFAce

Ideally: F/A-18 Super Hornet
Realistically: J-10B or Mirage 2000-9 or, if we go crazy, J-11B.

_But_, the best and most cost-effective way is to find a training methodology that enables close integration between the Army/Navy and the present Air Force, rather than create a competing air force with limited capability. What we lack in equipment, we can make up in training.

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## Righteous_Fire

PAFAce said:


> Ideally: F/A-18 Super Hornet
> Realistically: J-10B or Mirage 2000-9 or, if we go crazy, J-11B.
> 
> _But_, the best and most cost-effective way is to find a training methodology that enables close integration between the Army/Navy and the present Air Force, rather than create a competing air force with limited capability. What we lack in equipment, we can make up in training.



 I would rather say:

Ideally: Dassault Rafale
Realistically: J-10B


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## Arsalan

Max The Boss said:


> What is the Best fighter jet for Pakistan Navy Aviation?
> 
> 1)	F-18 Super Hornet
> 2)	Typhoon
> 3)	Rafale
> 4)	Su-35BM
> 5)	J-10B
> 6)	Gripen
> 7)	Mig-35D
> 8)	J-11B
> 
> 
> If Pakistan Navy Aviation has fighter jets it can protect ports itself without help from Pakistan Air force.
> 
> Getting fighter jets for Pakistan Navy Aviation will directly benefit Pakistan Air force because Pakistan Air force can save time to do other Air Defense activists.



well if let aside the patriotism we have and think realistic way then the answer wil be 
*NON of the above*
look guys, setting up an independent aviation wing for navy will be a huge task, it will require billions of dollars to get planes, build infrastructure, and train staff!
the infrastructure alone will mean air bases, training facility and radar systems!
so in this situation the only way, or, the easy way out will be to get a squadron or two of PAF dedicated to PN services. this is how we have been working for long time now, though there have been some problems of lack of communication between the two services but this can alos be ovvercome if we set a naval command over these squadrons. this can simply be done be sending the staff of these squadrons to PN on deputation, the whole thing will be maintained by PAF but managed by navy.
if this comes to be true, then i will say the option will be JF17. we can induct it in three squadrons as it will be cheaper option and will fulfill our needs. to be true, we wont require a super jet to protect our second hand OPH frigates, i mean we can do good with a normal plane like JF17 which will be lethal when modified as a dedicated naval warfare role aircraft!

i hope it helps you people!

regards!

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## Myth_buster_1

PN aviation does not need best fighter jet... i would be more concerned about raising up to 18 MPA fleet while let PAF replace aging mirage-iii/5 F-7 Q-5 in Masroor with JF-17, J-10B and lets get one naval Rafale squadron..

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## fatman17

PN is probably never going to get a dedicated shore-based Naval Attack squadron, but if it did, then the french Super Etendard with the Exocet ASM would be a great cost effective addition.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

This is how the Navy should try to align it self 

Minimum Requirement for Pakistan Navy

20 Frigates (With Cannon + Surface to Air Missiles) 
12 Harriers for Launch capabilities from platforms on the ships 
20 Hind Helicopters for Usage
3 Destroyers 
20 Submarines to protects Pakistani Ports
1 Aircraft Carrier (Or Mini craft carrier)
20 JF17 Thunders with Naval Warfare in mind launch from airports -
20&#37; of airforce - Chengdu F-7 should be given over to Navy instead 
of being treated as scrapes-
1 AWAC chinese made 
1 AWAC Saab Made for usage by Navy
40 UAV ... For areal reconosence equiped with air to air missiles

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## Super Falcon

we dont need aircarft carrier


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## niket

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This is how the Navy should try to align it self
> 
> Minimum Requirement for Pakistan Navy
> 
> 20 Frigates (With Cannon + Surface to Air Missiles)
> 12 Harriers for Launch capabilities from platforms on the ships
> 20 Hind Helicopters for Usage
> 3 Destroyers
> 20 Submarines to protects Pakistani Ports
> 1 Aircraft Carrier (Or Mini craft carrier)
> 20 JF17 Thunders with Naval Warfare in mind launch from airports -
> 20% of airforce - Chengdu F-7 should be given over to Navy instead
> of being treated as scrapes-
> 1 AWAC chinese made
> 1 AWAC Saab Made for usage by Navy
> 40 UAV ... For areal reconosence equiped with air to air missiles



to create that much force 25 billion+ will reqire......


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## Comet

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This is how the Navy should try to align it self
> 
> Minimum Requirement for Pakistan Navy
> 
> 20 Frigates (With Cannon + Surface to Air Missiles)
> 12 Harriers for Launch capabilities from platforms on the ships
> 20 Hind Helicopters for Usage
> 3 Destroyers
> 20 Submarines to protects Pakistani Ports
> 1 Aircraft Carrier (Or Mini craft carrier)
> 20 JF17 Thunders with Naval Warfare in mind launch from airports -
> 20% of airforce - Chengdu F-7 should be given over to Navy instead
> of being treated as scrapes-
> 1 AWAC chinese made
> 1 AWAC Saab Made for usage by Navy
> 40 UAV ... For areal reconosence equiped with air to air missiles




Why do we need that kind of force?


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## Comet

Max The Boss said:


> What is the Best fighter jet for Pakistan Navy Aviation?
> 
> 1)	F-18 Super Hornet
> 2)	Typhoon
> 3)	Rafale
> 4)	Su-35BM
> 5)	J-10B
> 6)	Gripen
> 7)	Mig-35D
> 8)	J-11B
> 
> 
> If Pakistan Navy Aviation has fighter jets it can protect ports itself without help from Pakistan Air force.
> 
> Getting fighter jets for Pakistan Navy Aviation will directly benefit Pakistan Air force because Pakistan Air force can save time to do other Air Defense activists.



I would really love to see Rafale in Pakistani Colors with the Navy. 2-3 Sq would be enough for us for a long time to come. Also, a few JF-17 to aid in Naval Missions would be awesome. 

Also instead of making a new department for Navy, the Air Force should be used and its assets should be used for Naval Missions.

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## Hyde

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This is how the Navy should try to align it self
> 
> Minimum Requirement for Pakistan Navy
> 
> 20 Frigates (With Cannon + Surface to Air Missiles)
> 12 Harriers for Launch capabilities from platforms on the ships
> 20 Hind Helicopters for Usage
> 3 Destroyers
> 20 Submarines to protects Pakistani Ports
> 1 Aircraft Carrier (Or Mini craft carrier)
> 20 JF17 Thunders with Naval Warfare in mind launch from airports -
> 20% of airforce - Chengdu F-7 should be given over to Navy instead
> of being treated as scrapes-
> 1 AWAC chinese made
> 1 AWAC Saab Made for usage by Navy
> 40 UAV ... For areal reconosence equiped with air to air missiles



Yeah right  but in 2030

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## TOPGUN

Here we are in dream land once again ! lol iam sorry to pop the bubble for those dreamers. Realistically speaking PN will most likely never have there own fighter wing therefore, as talked about a million times before the AF has always taken up the task & infact the navy looks up to the AF for air support & patroling when needed hence, the PAF will perhaps add 2 more sq's to assit the navy for its needs but thats it i could see mix of remaining rose up graded mirages & thunders but thats it and i really don't think we need much more Karachi alone has PAF bases ! we need to build up surface fleet of ships,subs and yes heli's more awacs aircraft that i can agree with lets think real not in wet dreams.

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## abbasniazi

I agree to those who say pakistan navy won't have seperate aviation wing in near future, but i disagree to TOPGUN sir, sir what did u exactly meant by "Never" , in my opinion this "never" will end as soon as we have a stable and robust economy, i appreciate ur realism sir but sometimes i feel u become over realistic and rule out the possibility of bright future for pakistan, pardon me if i took u wrong but thats the feeling i get from some of ur posts, now i'll put my suggestion, i think PAF should establish a specialized aviation wing for Pakistan Navy's support, this should be a permanent dedicated wing, further developments to this wing will be a step forward to establishing PN's seperate aviation arm, and when we have enough funds we should seperate this wing and develop it as an independent Air arm under the command of PN.


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## TOPGUN

abbasniazi said:


> I agree to those who say pakistan navy won't have seperate aviation wing in near future, but i disagree to TOPGUN sir, sir what did u exactly meant by "Never" , in my opinion this "never" will end as soon as we have a stable and robust economy, i appreciate ur realism sir but sometimes i feel u become over realistic and rule out the possibility of bright future for pakistan, pardon me if i took u wrong but thats the feeling i get from some of ur posts, now i'll put my suggestion, i think PAF should establish a specialized aviation wing for Pakistan Navy's support, this should be a permanent dedicated wing, further developments to this wing will be a step forward to establishing PN's seperate aviation arm, and when we have enough funds we should seperate this wing and develop it as an independent Air arm under the command of PN.



Bro iam sorry that you don't like my realizm but these are facts of life i can tell you first hand with most other members would agree that if not never atleast for a very long time to come PN will NOT have there own fighter wing! hence, & read carefully brother you said PAF would have a seperate /dedicated wing well the mirage sq now that PAF provides is solly for that purpose! and in the near future inshallah the navy will have perhaps 1 or 2 more sq's thunders i would think iam all for it but wat is reality is such i don't dream nor expect something out of wat i think and hear won't happen ! my father is a x PN capt proudly served i still have family in the navy and in the army and af i think i know a little bit from wat they tell me or wat i read or gain my knowledge on ! the navy has lacked for years and now finially is getting back on its feet do you even think the have the funds for these fighter wings you and other s speak of NOOO they dont ! they are more on the suface fleet which is small and old or leased ships ! anyhow again iam all with the plan for air wing support for the PN but again it will happen through PAF unless a mircale happens  and before i end this if you don't like my post or my 2 cents here plzz feel free to not read them cuz it seems as i don't know anything have a good day brother no hard feelings !


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## Imran Khan

guys are you live in dreams always .PN first of all not going to add air wing secend these birds if we got why not for air force.are we really buy these birds these days? no answer is PN will get mirages rose upgreaded if they get.otherwise no need PAF can handle until our economy will never come on road.i hope future jf-17 have some naval role and PN will get 50 of them .its realstic think come out from dreams.

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## TOPGUN

imran khan said:


> guys are you live in dreams always .PN first of all not going to add air wing secend these birds if we got why not for air force.are we really buy these birds these days? no answer is PN will get mirages rose upgreaded if they get.otherwise no need PAF can handle until our economy will never come on road.i hope future jf-17 have some naval role and PN will get 50 of them .its realstic think come out from dreams.



Thx bro for helping out to make things much more EASIER for others to understand!


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## mjnaushad

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This is how the Navy should try to align it self
> 
> Minimum Requirement for Pakistan Navy
> 
> 20 Frigates (With Cannon + Surface to Air Missiles)
> 12 Harriers for Launch capabilities from platforms on the ships
> 20 Hind Helicopters for Usage
> 3 Destroyers
> 20 Submarines to protects Pakistani Ports
> 1 Aircraft Carrier (Or Mini craft carrier)
> 20 JF17 Thunders with Naval Warfare in mind launch from airports -
> 20&#37; of airforce - Chengdu F-7 should be given over to Navy instead
> of being treated as scrapes-
> 1 AWAC chinese made
> 1 AWAC Saab Made for usage by Navy
> 40 UAV ... For areal reconosence equiped with air to air missiles


Are we going on a Crusade?????

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## Arsalan

mjnaushad said:


> Are we going on a Crusade?????



i guess we are facing one right now. 
have you ever noticed what the west think tanks think about us and they are also making there citizens beleive what they say!!
i have to say that the westren citizens are like sheeps that can easily be driven in any direction and can easily be made to beleive what there Gov says. 
the current situation is that by massive propagande campaigns against Muslim they have made there people beleive that Muslims are blood thristy animals that need to be dealt with force,,
have you ever see a mass protest against killing of innocents in iraq and Afghanistan while they need no push to protest for animal welfare, and bisexual rights???
it is the time that we should wakr up and realize the facts before it gets too late, 

regards!

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## brahmastra

Do my Pakistani friends of PDF think that they(PN) should have heavy bombers like Tuplov that India already have?


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## Beskar

brahmastra said:


> Do my Pakistani friends of PDF think that they(PN) should have heavy bombers like Tuplov that India already have?



I always wanted Pakistan Air force to have a high altitude, strategic bomber. We've actually had a thread on this very topic but the end conclusion was that Pakistan Air force or Navy does not require a high altitude bomber because a well capable MRCA is all we need based on our priorities.


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## Kompromat

arsalanaslam123 said:


> well if let aside the patriotism we have and think realistic way then the answer wil be
> *NON of the above*
> look guys, setting up an independent aviation wing for navy will be a huge task, it will require billions of dollars to get planes, build infrastructure, and train staff!
> the infrastructure alone will mean air bases, training facility and radar systems!
> so in this situation the only way, or, the easy way out will be to get a squadron or two of PAF dedicated to PN services. this is how we have been working for long time now, though there have been some problems of lack of communication between the two services but this can alos be ovvercome if we set a naval command over these squadrons. this can simply be done be sending the staff of these squadrons to PN on deputation, the whole thing will be maintained by PAF but managed by navy.
> if this comes to be true, then i will say the option will be JF17. we can induct it in three squadrons as it will be cheaper option and will fulfill our needs. to be true, we wont require a super jet to protect our second hand OPH frigates, i mean we can do good with a normal plane like JF17 which will be lethal when modified as a dedicated naval warfare role aircraft!
> 
> i hope it helps you people!
> 
> regards!



I do agree with you , if we would ever go for a Naval Airforce wing , we must rely on whats on hand , and that is JF-17 thunder .
I always have supported integration of national aviation industry , a modified Jf-17 would be a perfect bird for naval operations.
Few technologies can be lucrative .
The radar is more effective on sea , specially in the look down mode.
Anti radiation missiles , to destroy radars on ships & AWACS.
Anti ship missiles such as Harpoons
ALCM RAA'D
And there should be initially only 3 squadrons to deal with any navy .

Keep working hard people ....


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## Kompromat

brahmastra said:


> Do my Pakistani friends of PDF think that they(PN) should have heavy bombers like Tuplov that India already have?



NO my Indian friend !!

Have we gone mad enough to buy Strategic Bombers such as Tuplov ??
we dont need'em i believe , coz we have an efficient missile delivery system.
If we would ever went for a bomber , which i highly doubt , it would be coming from china ( H-1 strategic stealth bomber which is still under development) we will develop our own with Turkey or china .

Hope it helps


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## Kompromat

imran khan said:


> guys are you live in dreams always .PN first of all not going to add air wing secend these birds if we got why not for air force.are we really buy these birds these days? no answer is PN will get mirages rose upgreaded if they get.otherwise no need PAF can handle until our economy will never come on road.i hope future jf-17 have some naval role and PN will get 50 of them .its realstic think come out from dreams.




Thanks sir for clarification


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## Kompromat

PAFAce said:


> Ideally: F/A-18 Super Hornet
> Realistically: J-10B or Mirage 2000-9 or, if we go crazy, J-11B.
> 
> _But_, the best and most cost-effective way is to find a training methodology that enables close integration between the Army/Navy and the present Air Force, rather than create a competing air force with limited capability. What we lack in equipment, we can make up in training.




I think a Naval version of our own home brand , JF-17 thunder


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## Super Falcon

in naval aviation u need a fighter jet who has huge range radars to detect enemy ships far away before these ships detect fighter jet rafale is good choice


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

mjnaushad said:


> Are we going on a Crusade?????




Well these are a bare minimum needed to protect Pakistan ports gawadar and Karachi - but to prevent un authorized invasaion

Alot of people said we it will be 2030 , or may be 30 billion dollars but its not true ... 

Here is why ....most of the recommendations are already purcahsed by Pakistan

The awacs have already been purchased, and the chinese awacs are purchased and on their way why hand over all 4 awacs to airforce give one to navy ... 

The Aircraft wing that I recommended to be handed over to navy includes planes already being used by airforce. These will be replaced by the JF17 program , so why not just hand over 100-200 aircrafts to navy so these can be used to support Navys operation to patrol the seas, and prevent any rougue ships crossing borders. They navy can operate its own fleet of aircrafts and helicopters 

Since the Pilots already know how to fly these crafts - it will be instant boost to navy capabilites untill JF17 Navy versions are launched.

*The only thing new in the plan is cost for 5-6 subs, 5-6 more frigates and 3 destroyers and harrier fleet and 1 Aircraft carier*

I say why not just get 1 aircraft carrier from USA they will retire some in few years - get one , from USA - probbly instead getting 2 billion in aid from USA just get a old Air craft carrier - 

And I am positive that Harriers would be ideas solution to provide the navy much needed support capabilities from Sea - 

An aircraft career is must for Pakistan - so that the Pakistani seas can be protected from pirates - and smugglers -


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## Penguin

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This is how the Navy should try to align it self
> 
> Minimum Requirement for Pakistan Navy
> 
> 20 Frigates (With Cannon + Surface to Air Missiles)
> 12 Harriers for Launch capabilities from platforms on the ships
> 20 Hind Helicopters for Usage
> 3 Destroyers
> 20 Submarines to protects Pakistani Ports
> 1 Aircraft Carrier (Or Mini craft carrier)
> 20 JF17 Thunders with Naval Warfare in mind launch from airports -
> 20% of airforce - Chengdu F-7 should be given over to Navy instead
> of being treated as scrapes-
> 1 AWAC chinese made
> 1 AWAC Saab Made for usage by Navy
> 40 UAV ... For areal reconosence equiped with air to air missiles



23 Frigates/Destroyers, 20 submarines ... bigger than Royal Navy.
Hinds have no usefull naval application.
A carrier (with no aircraft specified  and then 12 Harrier to fly from frigates platforms?
Submarines are not port defense units.
PN should have MPAs and PAF should train for (naval) strike, rather than setting up a duplicate force.
AWACS are for AIR DEFENCE and are properly operated by PAF.
Recon UAVs with AIR-to-AIR missiles ?!

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## All-Green

Reality and Dream is always a thin line apart in our defense acquisitions...

Given a choice i would bank on J-11B to be present in PAF in 3-6 squadron strength with two squadrons based in the south for dedicated Naval Role.
One can be around Gwadar and one around Karachi.

Separate naval aviation is not the need of our Navy at this point in time, however a long range heavy attack fighter is the need of PAF and Navy both to deal with the threat posed by Indian armed forces.

The costs and strings attached with comparable Western Planes make it the most logical option for me...

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## Super Falcon

JH 7 will be best and it is latest tooo man i hope we get it


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## Myth_buster_1

Given a choice... I would rather have my air force with a dedicated naval MRCA squadron the Rafale of course which gives us a technical advantage over IN.... Rafale M packs superior naval warfare systems comparative to Mig-29K Super Hornet or the Naval MKI. 
With the induction of another Chinese platform wont give us the punch that we need. And in conjunction with FC-20 "western version" and AEW will be a very potent force!


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## All-Green

Growler said:


> Given a choice... I would rather have my air force with a dedicated naval MRCA squadron the Rafale of course which gives us a technical advantage over IN.... Rafale M packs superior naval warfare systems comparative to Mig-29K Super Hornet or the Naval MKI.
> With the induction of another Chinese platform wont give us the punch that we need. And in conjunction with FC-20 "western version" and AEW will be a very potent force!



Rafael is 100 million a piece!
That is too much.
The numbers we can purchase at this price limits any prospect of tot...
with j-11b we may have such a chance and the chinese are quite flexible to cater the need of paf.

I see the richest nation on earth and their massive spending in research and development and their brain power...
When i look at the phenomenal pace at which they have advanced in aircraft design and production i cannot help but think that they can make remarkable improvements to the su-27 airframe which is a very potent platform.
Their claims regarding j-11b may not be far off the mark.

Best thing would be if china also helps us purchase rafaels for study purposes...just kidding
...or maybe not...

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## wangrong




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## SBD-3

we can wait for J-10 C as well it will be much better as we will need minimal infrastructure rather than new one for J-11B or JH-7A and increasing the numbers we will also be able to induct J-10 with ToT as well


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## Myth_buster_1

All-Green said:


> Rafael is 100 million a piece!
> That is too much.


Thats a good deal considering the fact that at this cost it comes with TOT and not to forget the closet to 5th generation technology it carries. J-11B is merely a minor upgrades over soviet su-27 systems.


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## batmannow

Growler said:


> Thats a good deal considering the fact that at this cost it comes with TOT and not to forget the closet to 5th generation technology it carries. J-11B is merely a minor upgrades over soviet su-27 systems.



Dear friend!

off-topic,but it , seems tht, you have been or ALREADY gettin, "RAFAELEIONIZED" ,its out of question!
just think, REAL!


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## SBD-3

Growler said:


> Thats a good deal considering the fact that at this cost it comes with TOT and not to forget the closet to 5th generation technology it carries.


would you think buying one or two sqd will get us ToT? hah frenchies are not that idiots they have spent a lot and we will have to share the RD cost as well if we will get them with ToT. BTW when rafaels were offered they were not with ToT, I would rather prefer J-10C (or Super-10) and Grippen NG if we decide to go west 


> J-11B is merely a minor upgrades over soviet su-27 systems.


New build Shenyang J-11B Flanker B fighter. The missile under the wing is a Chinese clone of the Rafael Python 3 heatseeking missile. The J-11B aircraft are typically painted in different camouflage to the J-11A, with a medium blue grey upper surface, light grey lower surface, black radome, while the half ellipse grey area on the nose is overpainted with uniform camouflage (Chinese internet images).

Background

The controversial J-11B is an unauthorised derivative of the Sukhoi J-11A/Su-27SK, built by Shenyang in China. The aircraft has been the subject of an ongoing dispute between Beijing and Moscow which has caused the suspension of production of the second batch on indigenously manufactured legally licenced J-11A/Su-27SK.

The J-11B is not an exact clone of the Su-27SK, despite the commonly held view this is so. The airframe and engines can be considered to be 'cloned' but the systems are mostly unique to this variant.

Known differences include:

1. A Chinese IRST set located in the centreline position as with the OLS-27 in early Su-27S.
2. A planar array multimode radar which resembles the Phazotron Zhuk-27 series. It includes an IFF interrogator array.
3. An Onboard Oxygen Generator System (OBOGS). Only the most recent Russian variants have an OBOGS.
4. A unique glass cockpit design, with an asymmetric layout quite different from the Su-30MKK/MK2 and Su-27SMK.
5. An optical MAWS system claimed to operate in the UV band.
6. Dielectric panels on the stabilators not seen on any Russian variant.

The differences between the J-11B, Su-27SK and Su-27SMK are sufficiently great that this must be considered a unique offshoot of the Flanker family of fighters, not a subtype of the baseline Su-27SK/J-11A.
Shenyang J-11B Sino-Flanker

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## jupiter2007

Demo-Crazy is not working for Pakistan and it may not working until Pakistan educating the masses so they can make the right person run as the PM & President of Pakistan. Corrupted leaders like BB, Nawaz, Zardari, Bilawar (in training to become corrupted leader in Future), stole and will continue to steal billions of dollars of Money from Pakistan which can be used for thousand of project to promote the economy.
More Projects means more Jobs and more jobs mean more money and better economy, more cash in hand to spend.!


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## eastwatch

jupiter2007 said:


> Demo-Crazy is not working for Pakistan and it may not working until Pakistan educating the masses so they can make the right person run as the PM & President of Pakistan. Corrupted leaders like BB, Nawaz, Zardari, Bilawar (in training to become corrupted leader in Future), stole and will continue to steal billions of dollars of Money from Pakistan which can be used for thousand of project to promote the economy.
> More Projects means more Jobs and more jobs mean more money and better economy, more cash in hand to spend.!


India has got rid of its Maharajas and Bangladesh has got rid of its Zaminders when it was east Pakistan. But, Pakistan has yet to do away with its Vaderres and Tribal Chiefs. To build a democratic society, Pakistan has to build its institutions first. A nation-wide movement is needed to get rid of this medieval system.

These knights and lords are running the affairs of Pakistan since 1947. They are elected as the Parliament Member, their sons join the officer ranks of the military and their daughters marry the high ranking govt and military officials. So, together they are ruling Pakistan. Unless you get rid of them, they will keep on un-making a democracy faster than you build.

Sorry, this thread is supposed to be of the best fighter planes.

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## Myth_buster_1

batmannow said:


> Dear friend!
> 
> off-topic,but it , seems tht, you have been or ALREADY gettin, "RAFAELEIONIZED" ,its out of question!
> just think, REAL!



Before me you have already turned into a Su-27ized!

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## Myth_buster_1

hasnain0099 said:


> would you think buying one or two sqd will get us ToT? hah frenchies are not that idiots they have spent a lot and we will have to share the RD cost as well if we will get them with ToT. BTW when rafaels were offered they were not with ToT, I would rather prefer J-10C (or Super-10) and Grippen NG if we decide to go west



Rafale with or without TOT is still a much much technically better option then Chinese MRCA export variant just like ERIEYE without TOT is better then ZDK-03. France is in desperate need for Rafale customers, Lybia has decided to buy 12 Rafales, Brazil will buy 36 with TOT and option for more. Sweden has already given us clear red signal for any offensive weapons for pakistan let alone a new upgrade. J-10C super-10 is not meant for export and china is keen to use it domestically with secrecy so the possibility for PAF getting J-10C before 2025 is very very slim. Right now only J-10B is a export variant opened for any Chinese friendly customers like Venezuela, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc.


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## batmannow

Growler said:


> Before me you have already turned into a Su-27ized!



THANKS dear!
because, i think it is gettable!
REAFELE , i guss , no chance, in next 8 years?


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## PakShaheen79

It is Rafale just like French Marines are using.. It has range and punch to take one A2A and A2S targets in single mission. No need to have a escort fighters along with it. If PN can have couple of squadrons I am certain that Threat of Mig-29K will be eliminated Plus it will provide opportunity to PN surface fleet to stay at safe distance from IN's surface fleet while taking on latter with advanced heavy Anti ship missiles and torpedoes.


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## Myth_buster_1

batmannow said:


> THANKS dear!
> because, i think it is gettable!
> REAFELE , i guss , no chance, in next 8 years?



In fact realistically speaking, J-11B is not get able at all. 
why?
because
Russia's objection due to copyright issues.
And LMAO China did not even offer it for export and by the time they do offer it to us it will be simply too late IMO 2020.


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## zulfiqar74

Aircraft carrier is too huge for the purpose to defend its coastal water against pirates and smugglers. U want to buy a 2 billion worth of ship plus million dollars in accessories an maintenance just to stop a small 40 ft phut phut boat trying to smuggle think about it. You are better of investing on few Armadale class, Astral Partol boats APB 48 and/or APB47,Illiria class, 110-foot Island-class Patrol Boats a recon plane, surveillance equipment and couple of helicopters like seakings, Lynx for the Navy and coast guard. to fix the problem.

Aircraft carrier is a small moving city man. Aircraft carriers, amphebious ships are offensive combat units. Pakistan armforces doctroine is "Reposte" which is a limited "offensive-defence".

PN should aquire some jets, currently best option would be to induct mirage 5 as they get replaced JF17 in the PAF. They can later be replaced by J10. IF the Navy can afford and if we can get twin engine fighters then J11,or JH7 would be good due to its long range recon capabilities would like to say F18 or F14 but no more US weapons too much dramas. 

Another option would also be mirage 4000, french has cancelled that program but it could be revived with joint venture but only with full technology transfer with the french. change of design and latest avonics we could have a new 4/5 generation fighter for the PN and PAF. 
Someone mentioned bombers its again offensive. You rather invest on strategically placed underground hidden missiles then bombers. 

PN should have a proper Naval aviation wing and should maintain between 60 to 80 aircrafts depending on their requirements. Ofcourse all aspect of training to all the airman and airwoman provided by PAF but they pass out as PN Aviators. Just like the SSGN gets innitial training in charat. 
Would not mind seeing few C130 gunships in the inventory for naval and marine air support.Navy would need its own base airbase either base faisal could be transfered to the Navy or masroor could be extended. 

PN should increase the numbers of the marines troops from 2000 to at least 20000 in next 4 years, providing them with better training and equipments. This would ease the load of the army in Khi. they should be trained on SSGN combat methods. PN marines desperately needs to change the uniform because of the stupid blue stripe on the camo, it gives a very soft touch. I think who ever approved it thought the sea is blue lets add a touch of blue to the uniform as well. The marines uniforms should have been something like the computerized design print of few dull sandy shades and light gray mix.


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## Aamir Hussain

I have been reading this thread with interest. However, I would like to point out that before going into long "My Wish list session," and to have a meaningful discussion, it would be advisable if the mission requirement/parameters and a target for cost of operations are set for the proposed naval fighter!!!;-)

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## LCA Tejas

How about F-35??


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## Jazzbot

haha nice try teja, your words are same like your name..


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## LCA Tejas

jazzy_superior said:


> haha nice try teja, your words are same like your name..



My words are F-35. Its a powerful aircraft if that relates to my name, then Thanks a lot buddy..... *Stick to the topic man* ...


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## Jazzbot

to me F 35 can be good option, but i think they are far away from Pakistan's requirements right now. We need to save our money to upgrade JF-17 , J 10b and J-XX in future, also we need to do alot in our avionics and other sophisticated equipment. So no need to look for F35 right now at all..


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## SaleemKhan

Ideally: F-35
Realistically: J-10B


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## LCA Tejas

jazzy_superior said:


> to me F 35 can be good option, but i think they are far away from Pakistan's requirements right now. We need to save our money to upgrade JF-17 , J 10b and J-XX in future, also we need to do alot in our avionics and other sophisticated equipment. So no need to look for F35 right now at all..



Well That is true aswell.... Hey, is JF-17 naval varient there??


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The navy needs ships and destroyers /navies 

Mirages we have and Thunder are enough of airsupport


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## MZUBAIR

*Ideally :-* 40-50 F-18 Super Hornet

*But Realistically:- *
30-40 Mirage V,III ,ROSE (We already have 12+ Mirage V)
30 J-17 Block II (Not Block I)
Support Role:- 10-12 F-16 Block 52 or J-10B (till 2015)

Keeping in mind Indian current and fture fleet
*Indian Current Fleet*
18 (apprx) Sea Harrier jets
4 Mig 29
Support Role:- 10-12 SEPECAT Jaguar and 10-12 Sukhoi Su-30MKI


*Indian Future Fleet*
46 = 30+12 MiG-29K and 4 MiG-29KUB would be replacing sea Harrier
Support Role:- 10-12 SEPECAT Jaguar and 10-12 Sukhoi Su-30MKI


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## MZUBAIR

LCA Tejas said:


> Well That is true aswell.... Hey, is JF-17 naval varient there??



yes, in plan....
but first JF-17Block II will be manufacutred.....


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## peacemaker10

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> *The only thing new in the plan is cost for 5-6 subs, 5-6 more frigates and 3 destroyers and harrier fleet and 1 Aircraft carier*
> 
> 
> An aircraft career is must for Pakistan - so that the Pakistani seas can be protected from pirates - and smugglers -



You really like Aircraft carrier dont you ??


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## zulfiqar74

some of these threads are funny and i do enjoy reading them )) people are so enthusiastic about what PN should get. 

we can get all the jets f 18, j11, jxx, etc etc but where will we fly from, from all your head 

First we need is an establishment" Pakistan Naval Aviation Wing" or PNAF you all know what that is.

Then we need is a base a head quarters to fly these jets and coast guard planes. 
Option 1: the navy can build a new base on the south west between hub and gadani. 
Option 2: Extand and share masroor base. prefer option 1.

mirage 5 is already been used the number should be increased to atleast 70 to 80 aircraft as they get transfered from the airforce while inducting the new JF17 this will take the load off the airforce in khi. as all naval rutine operations can be managed by the navy. I would like to see J10 replace these mirages in next few years.

Twin engine aircrafts, have longer recon capabilities, if we can get them from the chinese and the navy has got funds and is interested then Jh7 would be awsome, obviously up graded to our requirements.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

peacemaker10 said:


> You really like Aircraft carrier dont you ??



AIRCRAFT carrier would be ideal for T20 match  can you imagine the bounce on carrier ?


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## SomeGuy

Growler said:


> J-10C super-10 is not meant for export and china is keen to use it domestically with secrecy so the possibility for PAF getting J-10C before 2025 is very very slim. Right now only J-10B is a export variant opened for any Chinese friendly customers like Venezuela, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc.



Super-10 IS J-10B, not J-10C.

J-10C was supposed to be a naval variant to be used on China's aircraft carriers, but I think they might choose to use modified Su-33 instead.


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## SomeGuy

Growler said:


> J-11B is merely a minor upgrades over soviet su-27 systems.





hasnain0099 said:


> The J-11B is not an exact clone of the Su-27SK, despite the commonly held view this is so. The airframe and engines can be considered to be 'cloned' but the systems are mostly unique to this variant.



The airframe has been improved over the Su-27 by reducing RCS and use of composites to reduce weight.

The engines, although currently using russian AL-31, will be replaced by WS-10 or WS-15.


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## SomeGuy

zulfiqar74 said:


> Aircraft carrier is too huge for the purpose to defend its coastal water against pirates and smugglers. U want to buy a 2 billion worth of ship plus million dollars in accessories an maintenance just to stop a small 40 ft phut phut boat trying to smuggle.



Agreed.

Using an aircraft carrier to go after pirates is like to cracking a nut with a sledge hammer.


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## wali87

I believe we only need about 30-40 Mirages (Rose) plus 10-14 F-16s supporting the mirages for air defense.

We do not need an aircraft carrier.


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## Nav

I dnt think v r getting rafael before 2030..becouse of lack of funds.. PN should go For a naval verison Of JF-17..


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## Paksindhi

Growler said:


> PN aviation does not need best fighter jet... i would be more concerned about raising up to 18 MPA fleet while let PAF replace aging mirage-iii/5 F-7 Q-5 in Masroor with JF-17, J-10B and lets get one naval Rafale squadron..



Totally agree, JF-17 and J-10b, we should be realistic guy's.


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## SomeGuy

Why do you guys say:

Ideally: Plane X
Realistically: J-10B

Do you guys think J-10B is NOT comparable to fighters like Rafale and Super Hornet? Chinese seem to think highly of J-10B.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Cant u stop trolling?


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## Nav

Guys how about j-15 ..! Hot babe 4 cooL Guys , A Squadren wil b enough along with 2 squadren of jf-17N


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## Super Falcon

welll there is only 12 of them and all of them are mirages their is nothing from you can choose


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## MZUBAIR

Super Falcon said:


> welll there is only 12 of them and all of them are mirages their is nothing from you can choose



Tobe realistic 30 - 40 Mirage are enough.
But for future induction there should be *Pakistan Naval Airforce*.

20 J-10B
40 Mirage
25 JF-17N

____________
80 + are fine for *Pakistan Naval Airforce*


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## Sparten80

Should give the navy something unique and distinct from the other aircraft inventory of the other arms of the Pakistani armed forces.

I would have said F-18's but those are pretty old now, (prototype came out in the 70's)

I like the Rafale but typical like most french planes, its not worth the cost and is very expensive. I dont know if through local avianics and possibly assemble we could bring the price down but that would be a nice plane. If the price is still too high, we should try to develop an alternative naval version of the F-10 possibly as a another option. Im sure the specs would be similar in the end.


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## Super Falcon

hahahhahaha unfortunatley we cat buy any for navy we are struggling to get jets for airforce and how we buy for navy impposible


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## SU-33

In this list, Typhoon and Rafale, too expensive;Gripen,too small and short voyage;Su-35BM and Mig-35D, can't get.
so F-18 and J11B is possible choice. consider to the price and expend, J11b is more appropriate


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## Nahraf

Pakistan Navy does not have a airbase. I started new thread in Military Aviation section about turning over Masroor Airbase to Navy, selling Faisal airbase to private sector and building a new airbase north of the Karachi.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/61462-karachi-airbases.html#post924045


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## Parashuram1

Regarding aircraft for your Navy, if you are confident with the production of your joint venture fighter with Chinese, the JF-17, my sincere recommendation would be continue the production and simply produce additional 60-70 units for your Navy.

From what I understand in this thread, many of Pakistani members here have disapproved the possible development or acquisition of an aircraft carrier, which means that your Naval aviation will remain for coastal defense rather than power projection. Due to this intention, you don't need to re-design this fighter for carrier take-off/ landing like the Russians have a separate version of MiG-29 fighters for their future replacement of SU-33s.

The main advantage would be the less cost per unit of production and also the experience gained from churning out more units. I believe yours being a brown-water navy (coastal defense only), this is the most sensible step. New aircraft, domestic technology, relatively in-expensive and reliable in terms of your apprehension of American sanctions.

Your other better choice would be the Sea Gripen being developed in Sweden.

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## umair86

i think the Agave equipped Mirage VPA3 are one the healthy airframes PAF has as they were delivered btw 1979-81. They should be upgraded with refueling probes and a modern radar and airframe should be total rebuilt with canards to give them better handling qualities. JF-17s to provide aircover on antishipping missions.


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## TOPGUN

Man again and again you guys back on this dreamy topic.. PAF has taken the task to support the PN with its sq that might rise to maybe 1 or 2 more but thats it perhaps with be a mixture of mirages and thunders... i don't see nor have heard about it when talking to a few people from the PN.

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## MZUBAIR

I always say 70-80 Mirages and almost 40 - 50 JF-17.

IAF only have a 2 dozens of harriers and 2 dozens of Mig 29.
In future they are going to purchase 30+ more makes 40-50 Mig 29K.

I think 70-80 Mirages and almost 40 - 50 JF-17 are enough to counter ~45 Mig 29K and ~20 harriers.


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## MenOfHonor

Super Falcon said:


> JH 7 will be best and it is latest tooo man i hope we get it




PN does require its own Aviation wing and airbase to run PN and coast guard operations an other search and rescue operations as well. We certainly do not require an aircraft carrier, but a long range naval version fighters would be great such as JH7 . if PN or airforce can afford a twin engine fighter only for the naval role. 
If twin engine is not possible then PN or PAF must induct around 5 squadron of 14 each mirages into aviation wing for starters, in the future it should only be replaced by the J10b as it would be better suited for the naval role comparing to JF17.


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## ARSENAL6

PAFAce said:


> Ideally: F/A-18 Super Hornet
> Realistically: J-10B or Mirage 2000-9 or, if we go crazy, J-11B.
> 
> _But_, the best and most cost-effective way is to find a training methodology that enables close integration between the Army/Navy and the present Air Force, rather than create a competing air force with limited capability. What we lack in equipment, we can make up in training.



WHY F-18 PAFace
whats so special about the aircraft whats so good aboput if you could pls elabrorate ?
Thanks

and congrats to be Mod


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## Abdullah Aziz

just look at our resources and other stuff we have in our beloved country....if we just use them properly and wisely then we can spend much more than that and can buy more and the best weapons, air crafts and ships/submarines etc. Army is very strong. Air Force is also very strong but the Navy needs great developments.


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## Abdullah Aziz

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This is how the Navy should try to align it self
> 
> Minimum Requirement for Pakistan Navy
> 
> 20 Frigates (With Cannon + Surface to Air Missiles)
> 12 Harriers for Launch capabilities from platforms on the ships
> 20 Hind Helicopters for Usage
> 3 Destroyers
> 20 Submarines to protects Pakistani Ports
> 1 Aircraft Carrier (Or Mini craft carrier)
> 20 JF17 Thunders with Naval Warfare in mind launch from airports -
> 20% of airforce - Chengdu F-7 should be given over to Navy instead
> of being treated as scrapes-
> 1 AWAC chinese made
> 1 AWAC Saab Made for usage by Navy
> 40 UAV ... For areal reconosence equiped with air to air missiles




can you please tell me what are Harriers, Hind Helicopters(are they just normal helicopters?), AWAC?


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## Abingdonboy

So time to cross Rafale off the list of hopefuls? By 2020 IN will have 150-200 advanced 4.5gen fighters (Mig-29K, N-LCA N-MMRCA) all capable to be used off IN's ACCs. Not to mention after 2022 we are likely to see 5th gen fighters enter IN fleet in large numbers (that is of N-MMRCA doesn't turn out to be F-35 (which is pretty likely tbh). Not to mention being supported by at least 2 SQDs of IAF dedicated SUPER 30 MKIs for maritime strike. All of these platforms will be supported by IN's own AWACs (either V-22 AEW or E-2D)How will PN counter this?


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## Desert Fox

Abingdonboy said:


> So time to cross Rafale off the list of hopefuls? By 2020 IN will have 150-200 advanced 4.5gen fighters (Mig-29K, N-LCA N-MMRCA) all capable to be used off IN's ACCs. Not to mention after 2022 we are likely to see 5th gen fighters enter IN fleet in large numbers (that is of N-MMRCA doesn't turn out to be F-35 (which is pretty likely tbh). Not to mention being supported by at least 2 SQDs of IAF dedicated SUPER 30 MKIs for maritime strike. All of these platforms will be supported by IN's own AWACs (either V-22 AEW or E-2D)How will PN counter this?



Who gives a flying F, this thread is about what PN will get, not what indian navy will purchase.

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## blackops

Desert Fox said:


> Who gives a flying F, this thread is about what PN will get, not what indian navy will purchase.



hahahaha some one got pissed dude he clearly asked what will be PN reaction what will they get to counter the IN 

INSECURE MUCH


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## Desert Fox

blackops said:


> hahahaha


Yeah i can do that too, Ha HA Ha Ha Ha, so what's your point?




blackops said:


> some one got pissed dude he clearly asked what will be PN reaction what will they get to counter the IN



Don't worry about what PN will get, that is none of your concerns, just stop boasting about your false sense of superiority on PAF/PN related threads, its gets really annoying.



blackops said:


> INSECURE MUCH


Not at all, i'm not the one going around trying to prove a false sense of superiority on indian threads.

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## untitled

Abdullah Aziz said:


> can you please tell me what are Harriers, Hind Helicopters(are they just normal helicopters?), AWAC?



Harriers

Mi-24 Hind

AWACS

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## IndoUS

I would say the Chinese naval jets sound pretty good.


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## wmdisinfo

ideally J-11B
Realistically J-10B


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## siegecrossbow

Navalized version of J-10 would be the most realistic option.


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## Penguin

Abingdonboy said:


> So time to cross Rafale off the list of hopefuls? By 2020 IN will have 150-200 advanced 4.5gen fighters (Mig-29K, N-LCA N-MMRCA) all capable to be used off IN's ACCs. Not to mention after 2022 we are likely to see 5th gen fighters enter IN fleet in large numbers (that is of N-MMRCA doesn't turn out to be F-35 (which is pretty likely tbh). Not to mention being supported by at least 2 SQDs of IAF dedicated SUPER 30 MKIs for maritime strike. All of these platforms will be supported by IN's own AWACs (either V-22 AEW or E-2D)How will PN counter this?



PN doesn't need to counter all of this as by far not all of this will be directed at Pakistan (obviously, India's build up is at least in part directed against China rather than Pakistan).
The number of gen4.5 jets IN will have carrier-borne at any given time by 2020 will not likely exceed 50 as Vikramaditya will take 16 Mig 29k and the pair of ACC planned to go in service 2015-2017 will each have about the same number.
Long range landbased aviation will in part be stationed on Andaman and Nicobar island (oriented north and east at the Bay of Bengal and Malakka strait and countries there), in the south oriented at Sri Lanka and the farther away Diego Garcia, and a portion will be at Lakshadweep isles, oriented at the Arabian Sea and Gulf of Aden. India has a lot of potentially valubable off-shore assets to watch and will therefor have to spread around its mil hardware.
Pakistan's situation is much simpler in that respect: patrol/protect the coast and SLOCs by denying others full control. Advantageous situation can occur locally.


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## Nishan_101

Although my wish was that if JF-17 was completed with composite, RD-93Bs and IFRB retractable one in block-I with dual seat at some time late like in 2009. Then other than PAF, PN should acquire 15 examples of them like 11 single ones and 4 dual ones in fist phase and then 21 in block-II and 21 in block-IIIs


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## killerx

J10 naval version of JF17 can perform berfic naval role if converted solely for naval role more internal fule cap new raydar and sensors and naval AWACS support will be good to cover our sea but need a complete new naval fleet more ships nad subs as well


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## ziaulislam

realistically, the best option is 2 squardons of jf-17 thunder
multirole,cheap to maintain and operated widely by airforce.


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## TOPGUN

They will be mirages & thunders if anything... mirages already being used for navel role thats is IF the navy chosses to have a fighter wing otherwise they will be operated by PAF as they are now .. my realistic guess is thunders and mirage simply.


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## untitled

In peace time the cheapest solution would be a long range drone armed with anti shipping missiles

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## Varunastra

how about naval tejas?????


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## Imran Khan

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> how about naval tejas?????



thats canceled project even indian navy don't like it  we are talking JF-17 naval bachy

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## TOPGUN

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> how about naval tejas?????



How about time for you to stop trolling here ....


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## Varunastra

TOPGUN said:


> How about time for you to stop trolling here ....



sure sure!!! pakistani's have matured a lot!!!........i was expecting galis but u guys are a good sport!!!!


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## Imran Khan

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> sure sure!!! pakistani's have matured a lot!!!........i was expecting galis but u guys are a good sport!!!!



somebody tach you wrong info why we abuse you ? hum itny bury nhi jitna tumhy kisi ne bataya hai


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## ziaulislam

mirages are being retired soon..
so obviously the only option is the thunder..with 2 BVRs,2WVR and 2 antiship missles with a central fuel tank, it has enough endurance,range and capability


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## killerx

ziaulislam said:


> mirages are being retired soon..
> so obviously the only option is the thunder..with 2 BVRs,2WVR and 2 antiship missles with a central fuel tank, it has enough endurance,range and capability



need two more hard points in JF17 naval version bro has to long range to kill mig 29K and distroy the ship as well


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## fatman17

JFT maritime strike based at Masroor.


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## Varunastra

Imran Khan said:


> somebody tach you wrong info why we abuse you ? hum itny bury nhi jitna tumhy kisi ne bataya hai



good 4 south asia!!!!


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## TOPGUN

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> sure sure!!! pakistani's have matured a lot!!!........i was expecting galis but u guys are a good sport!!!!



Way more matured then you indians my friend plus we don't troll enjoy your day lolz


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## Nishan_101

I think the Indians are more interested in Rafael M and Rafael N(the dual seat version that Dassault might now going to develop as they have money now from MMRCA) for IAC-II and IAC-III, but I am Russian one that IN is getting and the IAC-I will have MiG-29Ks. I am sure that JF-17 Block-II with its dual seat would be good for PN needs.


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## Imran Khan

navy don't deserve to waste money of poor Pakistanis . they can't defend there air base parked planes what they will do in war ? simply failed force .

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## Machoman

*None from list, because we cannot afford anything......simple!*


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## Imran Khan

Machoman said:


> *None from list, because we cannot afford anything......simple!*



even if we can afford you think its good idea to spend money on white elephant ?

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## saiyan0321

> even if we can afford you think its good idea to spend money on white elephant ?




imran bhai pak armed forces kay silent troll ho chukay hai  following your post some have become very anti army on topic naval version jf17 would make things better


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## Imran Khan

saiyan0321 said:


> imran bhai pak armed forces kay silent troll ho chukay hai  following your post some have become very anti army on topic naval version jf17 would make things better



i am not trolling its mirror if fans can't face it not my fault dear . naval jf-17 cost 10-15mn$ each . so better we build 40-40 universities in this money and save our future generation rather then give them birds for fly joy rides .people here dying from fake medicines in this money we can open a very good international medicine company . or at least use in power sector and if this money reduce daily 1 hour load shedding i will be proud of it .

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## Penguin

Imran Khan said:


> navy don't deserve to waste money of poor Pakistanis . they can't defend there air base parked planes what they will do in war ? simply failed force .


Considering US special forces incursion to kill OBL, what good are PAF and PA by comparison???? Any better than navy?

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## saiyan0321

> i am not trolling its mirror if fans can't face it not my fault dear







> people here dying from fake medicines



yeh tu zaida political stunt lagta hai hazaro logo nay dawayan istemal ki par sirf 200 log react kyo howay.

but yeah our generals need their head examined they r being cowards now.... but still looking forward to naval jf17


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## saiyan0321

> Considering US special forces incursion to kill OBL, what good are PAF and PA by comparison???? Any better than navy?



let me tell you if i was to say our weakest sector it would be the navy. its not like we are cowards or dont have tools our generals dont have guts to stand and fight.... an example drone and heli come and go kiyani doesnt care but indian heli come in our air space and he is full on 20/20 equipment there brave soldiers there people willing to fight there but guts in leaders both civil and army nowherePP


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## Nishan_101

Does INAF Naval Tejas Cancelled?

I think the Indians are more interested in Rafael M and Rafael N(the dual seat version that Dassault might now going to develop as they have money now from MMRCA) for IAC-II and IAC-III, but I am Russian one that IN is getting and the IAC-I will have MiG-29Ks. I am sure that JF-17 Block-II with its dual seat would be good for PN needs.


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## Abdullah Aziz

According to me I think that the best air-crafts for Pakistan Naval Aviation would be as follows:
1. Fighter= F/A-18 E Super Hornet(Crew:1 Pilot)_(Speed:1.8+ Mach)_(Role:Fighter+Anti-Surface)
2. Transport= E-2 Hawkeye(Crew:2 Pilots, Combat Information Center Officer, The Air Control Officer and The Radar Operator)_(Speed:648 km/h)_(Role:Airborne Early Warning and Control)
3. Surveillance = i) PC-3 Orion(Crew:11)_(Speed:750 km/h)_(Role:Maritime Patrol Aircraft+Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub)
ii) P-8 Poseidon(Crew:2 Pilots, 7 Mission)_(Speed:907 km/h)_ (Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub) INFORMATION: FOR ANTI-SUBMARINE WARFARE "P-8 Poseidon" USES MINES WHEARAS "PC-3 Orion" USES DEPTH CHARGES
4. Electronic Warfare= EA-18G Growler(Crew:2 Pilots)_(Speed:Mach 1.8)_(Role:Fighter+Electronic Warfare)
5. Helicopters= 
i) Westland Lynx(Crew:2-3)_(Transport Capacity:10)_(Speed:324 km/h)_(Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub+ Transport+Search & Rescue)
ii) SA 319 Alouette III(Crew:2)_(Transport Capacity:5)_(Speed:210 km/h)_(Role:Search & Rescue+Utility)
iii) Westland Sea King(Crew:2-4)_(Speed:208 km/h)_(Role:Transport+Anti-Sub)
iv) MH 60 R Sea Hawk(Crew:3-4)_(Transport Capacity:5)_(Speed:270 km/h)_(Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub+Transport+Search & Rescue)
v) MH 60 S Knight Hawk(Crew:3-4)_(Transport Capacity:5)_(Speed:270 km/h)_(Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub+Transport+Search & Rescue)


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## Anish1

On a general note i hate it when the army and navy induct fighter planes for any country.
It makes the air force non-important.

Indian Army wants 3 squadrons of fighter aircraft which IAF rightly opposes.


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## Abdullah Aziz

Machoman said:


> *None from list, because we cannot afford anything......simple!*


You Are a Pakistani living in US you are now a US citizen not a Pakistani so you don't know what we can do and what we can afford so please if you want to help your most welcome but if you want to just say rubbish then just don't bug us.


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## Abdullah Aziz

Anish9500 said:


> On a general note i hate it when the army and navy induct fighter planes for any country.
> It makes the air force non-important.
> 
> Indian Army wants 3 squadrons of fighter aircraft which IAF rightly opposes.


why does the army wants a squadron of fighter planes for? lol
the navy needs fighters because they need specially trained people to fly planes over the seas and air force does not have such specially trained people that can fly planes over seas so that's why the navy needs a squadron for planes but why does the army need one???
the air force can fight over land so why they need one there mad people.


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## farhan_9909

J-11B if possible

or stick with the JFT with C-803.

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## T90TankGuy

Anish9500 said:


> On a general note i hate it when the army and navy induct fighter planes for any country.
> It makes the air force non-important.
> 
> Indian Army wants 3 squadrons of fighter aircraft which IAF rightly opposes.



what are you talking about ? the army did not ask for an fighters. at least get your facts straight.

---------- Post added at 02:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 AM ----------




Abdullah Aziz said:


> According to me I think that the best air-crafts for Pakistan Naval Aviation would be as follows:
> 1. Fighter= F/A-18 E Super Hornet(Crew:1 Pilot)_(Speed:1.8+ Mach)_(Role:Fighter+Anti-Surface)
> 2. Transport= E-2 Hawkeye(Crew:2 Pilots, Combat Information Center Officer, The Air Control Officer and The Radar Operator)_(Speed:648 km/h)_(Role:Airborne Early Warning and Control)
> 3. Surveillance = i) PC-3 Orion(Crew:11)_(Speed:750 km/h)_(Role:Maritime Patrol Aircraft+Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub)
> ii) P-8 Poseidon(Crew:2 Pilots, 7 Mission)_(Speed:907 km/h)_ (Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub) INFORMATION: FOR ANTI-SUBMARINE WARFARE "P-8 Poseidon" USES MINES WHEARAS "PC-3 Orion" USES DEPTH CHARGES
> 4. Electronic Warfare= EA-18G Growler(Crew:2 Pilots)_(Speed:Mach 1.8)_(Role:Fighter+Electronic Warfare)
> 5. Helicopters=
> i) Westland Lynx(Crew:2-3)_(Transport Capacity:10)_(Speed:324 km/h)_(Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub+ Transport+Search & Rescue)
> ii) SA 319 Alouette III(Crew:2)_(Transport Capacity:5)_(Speed:210 km/h)_(Role:Search & Rescue+Utility)
> iii) Westland Sea King(Crew:2-4)_(Speed:208 km/h)_(Role:Transport+Anti-Sub)
> iv) MH 60 R Sea Hawk(Crew:3-4)_(Transport Capacity:5)_(Speed:270 km/h)_(Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub+Transport+Search & Rescue)
> v) MH 60 S Knight Hawk(Crew:3-4)_(Transport Capacity:5)_(Speed:270 km/h)_(Role:Anti-Surface+Anti-Sub+Transport+Search & Rescue)


 


Abdullah Aziz said:


> You Are a Pakistani living in US you are now a US citizen not a Pakistani so you don't know what we can do and what we can afford so please if you want to help your most welcome but if you want to just say rubbish then just don't bug us.



are you some sort newbie with delusions of grandeur? have you seen your list? also what your problem in what he said ? is it not the facts?


----------



## Yaduveer

it's useless thread for following reason ...

1. Pakistan do not have Aircraft carrier. Do thread poster want to fly aircraft direct from patrol boats?
2. For coastal defence JF17 is more than sufficient .

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## timberwolf

Pshamim from Pakdef did reveal interest of Chinese Navy in Jf-17. not just a C-803 equipped jf-17 but he had some thing more to add, a specialized naval version of jf-17 including heavier undercarriage, Inlet design has been changed to rib inlets necessitated by a new and larger nose changing the forward fuselage center of gravity, and ensuring the static instability. Also Wings were also swept back and back to edge area has been increased etc etc. 

Link to Pshamim post: JF-17 Related Discussion - 2012

My impression of Naval JF-17 according to the above posted info :Military Photos and Photoshops: Jf-17 Thunder evolves: Naval JF17 / Fc-1


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## timberwolf

farhan_9909 said:


> J-11B if possible
> 
> or *stick with the JFT with C-803*.



I dont understand why are we even considering any other option ? JFT with C-803 has enough punch to do its job with maximum cost savings possible. No need to look at any other fancy aircrafts. If PAF Jf-17 are supposed to take on the Su-30, i have no doubt Navy Jf-17 can take on Mig-29 K.


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## BlackenTheSky

Why not to try some Russian technology this time?? We already have American and Chinese.


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## pak-fgfa

no use in this thread



timberwolf said:


> I dont understand why are we even considering any other option ? JFT with C-803 has enough punch to do its job with maximum cost savings possible. No need to look at any other fancy aircrafts. If PAF Jf-17 are supposed to take on the Su-30, i have no doubt Navy Jf-17 can take on Mig-29 K.



are u crazy or what, jf17 cannot stand near su30mki


----------



## acetophenol

pak-fgfa said:


> no use in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> are u crazy or what, jf17 cannot stand near su30mki


 
You are right,given the fact that aircrafts don't really stand.


----------



## alimobin memon

acetophenol said:


> You are right,given the fact that aircrafts don't really stand.



bro Su30mkI is awesome but doesn't jf17 cant withstand if u are right then that means f16 too well Sometimes Super maneuvrability wont work


----------



## Penguin

pak-fgfa said:


> no use in this thread
> 
> are u crazy or what, jf17 cannot stand near su30mki



A Desert Eagle or Desert Hawk .50 pistol surely has superior performance to a 9mm Baretta, yet in the right hand under the right circumstances both will kill you just as dead as the other.

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## Pak47

No need for fancy machines.. when our thunders produced at home can manage really effectively. 

Would love to see the naval version of our thunder flying above our ships.


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## Armstrong

Heres what I think :

20 JF-17s (dunno the block) 

10 Mirages (perhaps the ROSE ones)

5-8 J-15s or some variant of J-11s.


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## Nishan_101

I think if will going to have a good Naval Budget in near future then having 50 JF-17s in near future will be great.


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## hassan1



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## kuo724

J10B.... we will build the jet with our heart. not just money

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## truthunited

BlackenTheSky said:


> Why not to try some Russian technology this time?? We already have American and Chinese.



yeah why not


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## Nishan_101

I am with that Navy should go for 30 JF-17s Block-IIs including 7 dual seat. Later, they can go for another 30 Block-IIIs by 2018.


----------



## maxpayne

zulfiqar74 said:


> Would not mind seeing few C130 gunships in the inventory for naval and marine air support.Navy would need its own base airbase either base faisal could be transfered to the Navy or masroor could be extended.


So these C130 maybe used for pick n drop of military people families on Eids etc?


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## waz

If we had the money, then J-11B would have been perfect. As we don't guess the JF-17, or wait till our economy improves.


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## nana41

fis notman17 said:


> PN is probably never going to get a dedicated shore-based Naval Attack squadron, but if it did, then the french Super Etendard with the Exocet ASM would be a great cost effective addition.


ETENDARD is no longer in production.......a second hand perhaps, yes.


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## Basel

for any Navy which have to provide air support from land bases to its fleet it needs long range fighter / bomber as per their needs and resources, and J-11B & F-18s fits well in this category but sadly due to economic situation and geopolitical situation PN can't afford this luxury.


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## mdeva

I think many of you have fallen off the boat.
What the country needs is not masses of many different aircraft or new types in the near future.
Bin everything but the F16s and the FC1s. Invest in modifying them and weapon load and rather invest in counter insurgent aircraft and helicopters to support economic stability for the country. Poking India doesnt serve your interests. Regional stability does. Thats how Russia, India and China have emerged. The threat to your sovereignty has already invaded it. Your other threat is from the north. Do it the Swedish way and lower cost through commonality. Quality not quantity. At the moment you just look like a bits and pieces force to the rest of the world. Your obsession with US equipment also seems crazy. Do China or do Europe and keep it simple.

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## T90TankGuy

Basel said:


> for any Navy which have to provide air support from land bases to its fleet it needs long range fighter / bomber as per their needs and resources, and J-11B & F-18s fits well in this category but sadly due to economic situation and geopolitical situation PN can't afford this luxury.





mdeva said:


> I think many of you have fallen off the boat.
> What the country needs is not masses of many different aircraft or new types in the near future.
> Bin everything but the F16s and the FC1s. Invest in modifying them and weapon load and rather invest in counter insurgent aircraft and helicopters to support economic stability for the country. Poking India doesnt serve your interests. Regional stability does. Thats how Russia, India and China have emerged. The threat to your sovereignty has already invaded it. Your other threat is from the north. Do it the Swedish way and lower cost through commonality. Quality not quantity. At the moment you just look like a bits and pieces force to the rest of the world. Your obsession with US equipment also seems crazy. Do China or do Europe and keep it simple.


Why have the two of you restarted a four yr old thread?


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## fatman17

currently its the Mirage with AM-39 Exocet ASM - in future it will be the JF-17 with the C-802 or the AKG.


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## Donatello

fatman17 said:


> currently its the Mirage with AM-39 Exocet ASM - in future it will be the JF-17 with the C-802 or the AKG.



Well, since the CM400AKG has been tested on JF17, it would definitely be there along with the C802/3 of course.


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## Zarvan

I would love to see 54 J-11 C backing our Navy

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## slapshot

Donatello said:


> Well, since the CM400AKG has been tested on JF17, it would definitely be there along with the C802/3 of course.


It would be great to see some footage some day, Thunder releasing CM400AKG and C802

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## Donatello

slapshot said:


> It would be great to see some footage some day, Thunder releasing CM400AKG and C802



Modi is in power. Your wish might come true.

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## slapshot

Donatello said:


> Modi is in power. Your wish might come true.


 Politicians say anything to get votes, what happens afterwards is different story

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## 474474

If both the navy and air force invest production facilities could improve, more and better jf17s for everyone!


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## aliaselin

JF-17S


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## random123

Although JF-17 program is not on its track but I really think 70 JF-17s from Block-II & Block-III.


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## slapshot

random123 said:


> *Although JF-17 program is not on its track*


----------



## Super Falcon

Pn cant have screw of any these untill stupid admirals


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## Zarvan

Well we can't get our hands on F-18 Super Hornet other wise it's a dam good plane but as for J-11 B it can be great option also now J-16 is another option and Russian SU-34 also can be an option.


----------



## black-hawk_101

Max The Boss said:


> What is the Best fighter jet for Pakistan Navy Aviation?
> 
> 1) F-18 Super Hornet
> 2) Typhoon
> 3) Rafale
> 4) Su-35BM
> 5) J-10B
> 6) Gripen
> 7) Mig-35D
> 8) J-11B
> 
> 
> If Pakistan Navy Aviation has fighter jets it can protect ports itself without help from Pakistan Air force.
> 
> Getting fighter jets for Pakistan Navy Aviation will directly benefit Pakistan Air force because Pakistan Air force can save time to do other Air Defense activists.


Honestly, it can only be used SU-27s from China with upgrade kits of avionics from Russia. As PN has also allowed Chinese to work on Gwadar since 2000. So, its their duty now to give PN equipment free of cost. Like:
4 F-22P Block-II + 4 F-22P Block-III
8 S-20P Block-I + 8 S-20P Block-II + 8 S-20P Block-III
100++ used SU-27s for Naval roles


----------



## punit

black-hawk_101 said:


> Honestly, it can only be used SU-27s from China with upgrade kits of avionics from Russia. As PN has also allowed Chinese to work on Gwadar since 2000. So, its their duty now to give PN equipment free of cost. Like:
> 4 F-22P Block-II + 4 F-22P Block-III
> 8 S-20P Block-I + 8 S-20P Block-II + 8 S-20P Block-III
> 100++ used SU-27s for Naval roles


U ARE JOKING RIGHT !

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## masud

my vote goes for jf-17............
just imagin 50 jf-17, 30 jf-17 armed with c-602..............






20 jf-17 armed with akg-400...............

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## black-hawk_101

masud said:


> my vote goes for jf-17............
> just imagin 50 jf-17, 30 jf-17 armed with c-602..............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 jf-17 armed with akg-400...............


SU-27s with Russian avionics upgrade is the best.


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## monitor

My vote for J-11D/J-16 fighter along with JF-17 . though @mastan khan and others proposing JH-7 for naval role i think as JH-7 have to face mig-29k like fighter it will be logical to have J-11d/J16 like fighter which both can carry large weapons load as well as work as fighter . if you wants to get JH-7 it number may be small number escorted by j-11D.

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## masud

black-hawk_101 said:


> SU-27s with Russian avionics upgrade is the best.



1st of all, what is your objective/requerment? and what is the range of jf-17?
2nd how much money you want to spend ?

in my little knowledge, i think countering indian navy is main objective. (2 air craft carrier+mig 29k + land based su-30 mki with brahbos).
my idea (don,t laugh out) = bring some DF-21D asbm............













add more platform (invest jf-17 more to improve weapons and AESA) to launch overwhelming anti ship missile to cripple the indian navy friget, destroyer, corvat etc .........(USSR NAVY TACKTICKS)

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## black-hawk_101

masud said:


> 1st of all, what is your objective/requerment? and what is the range of jf-17?
> 2nd how much money you want to spend ?
> 
> in my little knowledge, i think countering indian navy is main objective. (2 air craft carrier+mig 29k + land based su-30 mki with brahbos).
> my idea (don,t laugh out) = bring some DF-21D asbm............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> add more platform (invest jf-17 more to improve weapons and AESA) to launch overwhelming anti ship missile to cripple the indian navy friget, destroyer, corvat etc .........(USSR NAVY TACKTICKS)


These are good too. But PN needs SU-27s with upgrades and FREE too


----------



## Beethoven

masud said:


> my vote goes for jf-17............
> just imagin 50 jf-17, 30 jf-17 armed with c-602..............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 jf-17 armed with akg-400...............


The best choice that we have under the current circumstances........ohhh wait let JF-17 evolve into Block 3 have a look at the prototype and even after that if you have any reservations we might lend an ear to what you have to say


----------



## Burhan Wani

Arsalan said:


> well if let aside the patriotism we have and think realistic way then the answer wil be
> *NON of the above*
> look guys, setting up an independent aviation wing for navy will be a huge task, it will require billions of dollars to get planes, build infrastructure, and train staff!
> the infrastructure alone will mean air bases, training facility and radar systems!
> so in this situation the only way, or, the easy way out will be to get a squadron or two of PAF dedicated to PN services. this is how we have been working for long time now, though there have been some problems of lack of communication between the two services but this can alos be ovvercome if we set a naval command over these squadrons. this can simply be done be sending the staff of these squadrons to PN on deputation, the whole thing will be maintained by PAF but managed by navy.
> if this comes to be true, then i will say the option will be JF17. we can induct it in three squadrons as it will be cheaper option and will fulfill our needs. to be true, we wont require a super jet to protect our second hand OPH frigates, i mean we can do good with a normal plane like JF17 which will be lethal when modified as a dedicated naval warfare role aircraft!
> 
> i hope it helps you people!
> 
> regards!


Superb opinion.
Let me clear, 
Indian access to chahbahar port and UAE can be fatal for our naval dockyards.
So we have to focus secured air routes in near future.


----------



## Burhan Wani

angel21 said:


> You should get naval version of jf-17..its better....cheap,easy to maintain,can be armed to teeth.
> 
> 
> How so..?


If war broke out between India and Pakistan they will provide you access within minutes.


----------



## Neptune

Can anyone give me one single appropriate reason for Pakistani Navy to acquire fighter jets?


----------



## Burhan Wani

Neptune said:


> Can anyone give me one single appropriate reason for Pakistani Navy to acquire fighter jets?


Kamikaze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Neptune

Technogaianist said:


> To free up the PAF and allow it to concentrate on protecting and striking land-based targets. Air Force aircraft can be used to penetrate Indian air space or protect Pakistan's, the naval air arm can clear the skies over water, attack naval assets of adversaries and if necessary add another strike or defensive element that can compliment the PAF.
> 
> The reason is the same as any nation operating both a naval and conventional air arm, it adds flexibility and compounds an adversaries concerns, which forces them to spend more to counter new capabilities or divert assets from existing stores to shore up new problem areas.
> 
> Perhaps the reason this isn't being done is limited funds, resources to support over-sea air patrols/strikes, such as tankers, command and control, operational and maintenance experience and doctrine, which sees the PAF be responsible for air-patrol, strike and air defense - similar to how the US Army was once in control of the Air Force.
> 
> Unless China is willing to part with some of its J-XX series, or Russian relations are improved to where they'd supply Pakistan with naval-oriented aircraft, or the West decides the same, it's going to be a bit hard for Pakistan to acquire dedicated naval air assets - land-based of course, unless Pakistan is looking to acquire an aircraft carrier, create artificial islands to base aircraft out of, or develop LHAs to support VTOL maritime aircraft.
> 
> It's unclear whether or not the J-15 will be cleared for export, I've noticed more indications that it wont be, but it's a solid maritime-oriented strike platform:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a bit too expensive though.




I concur. But thats why I asked that. There's budget constraints, unfortunately. In this circumstance, if by any means such money was in hands of PN, I don't believe it was to be spent on fighter but combatant vessels, Air defense frigates from China if the case is AAW to be more specific. Unless there is operational LHA/LHD in service and enough funding is given, it still is not reliable and trustworthy to spend on fighter aircraft instead of DDG/FFGs to augument maritime AAW needs. And they don't seem to have a need for amphibious assault ship with flight decks capable for VTOL.


----------



## Burhan Wani

angel21 said:


> Iran clearly said that they won't allow any country..(be it US) inside their port if they in engaging war with any one..So option for indian navy to use iranian ports during war goes to dustbin.


Israeli support for Iran during the Iran–Iraq war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Burhan Wani

angel21 said:


> I will be glad if we stay on same boat a.k.a on topic
> I follow this forum from long ago and found your posts sensible...i wanna have claim that "IN will use iran ports during war"


For brilliants, hint is more than enough
If Iran can provide airbases to isreal then why not for India.?


----------



## Burhan Wani

angel21 said:


> Why they will provide help to baniyas?
> Ok leave it..in that case you should have goood relation with iran then nothing will happen( good relation means fine trade...because nowadays there no friendship b/w any countries its just self interest)


Exactly.
They will provide you help because they want to improve their proxies to increase Ayatollas hold in region Khurasan.


----------



## Burhan Wani

angel21 said:


> Ok...you have a point..every one should be carefull these days...its a race run or get crushed by your opponent.
> [off topic]I have small doubt china is only country investing in pakistan? I never heard other news regarding foriegn investment [off topic]
> What about naval version of jf-17?


Not bad choice very economical.


----------



## fatman17

Max The Boss said:


> What is the Best fighter jet for Pakistan Navy Aviation?
> 
> 1)	F-18 Super Hornet
> 2)	Typhoon
> 3)	Rafale
> 4)	Su-35BM
> 5)	J-10B
> 6)	Gripen
> 7)	Mig-35D
> 8)	J-11B
> 
> 
> If Pakistan Navy Aviation has fighter jets it can protect ports itself without help from Pakistan Air force.
> 
> Getting fighter jets for Pakistan Navy Aviation will directly benefit Pakistan Air force because Pakistan Air force can save time to do other Air Defense activists.



JF17 period

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## Beethoven

black-hawk_101 said:


> These are good too. But PN needs SU-27s with upgrades and FREE too


No wonder you get -ve ratings on regular intervals....want a piece of advice???? think before you speak


----------



## Penguin

PN naval aviation does not need fighter jets. Most navies do not have their own fighters.


----------



## MastanKhan

Neptune said:


> Can anyone give me one single appropriate reason for Pakistani Navy to acquire fighter jets?



Hi,

The need is a deep strike aircraft that can reach south india's beach cities and naval installation,

The strike from the sea can be directed from different directions at different targets---just look at the map of Pakistan and india. That brings in un-predictability to the strike element.

JF 17 does not have the legs to reach MUMBAI.


----------



## araz

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The need is a deep strike aircraft that can reach south india's beach cities and naval installation,
> 
> The strike from the sea can be directed from different directions at different targets---just look at the map of Pakistan and india. That brings in un-predictability to the strike element.
> 
> JF17 does not have the legs to reach MUMBAI.


I don't think we need an air asset to do what you are proposing . I think JH7 and its iterations would be taking a step back rather than forward. However i do fully accept a need for a twin engined platform for protective cover for the platforms like P3s which go out hunting for IN platforms and sub sea assets.
It is sheer folly to think of numerical and technical superiority without the economy to back it up. Secondly with the relative size difference of India and Pakistan and their relative industrial and economic clout you will always be found wanting. What one needs to do is to have enough deterrence to make the enemy think twice before they attack. As to reaching the Indian Beeches, man why do you want to scare the poor Indians there. Let them have a good time. When the time comes and a response or aggressive move is needed, it will be made. But remember the result will be MAD as no one would wait to find out if the approaching missile is carrying a conventional or nuclear warhead.
Whether we like it or not the reality is we are still far away from a twin engined platform for the navy and even for the Air force. We need to have a boost in our defence budget for the upkeep of these platforms and inspite of the rosy pictures that various posters paste about Pakistan's economic progress I will believe it when I see it coming.
Araz

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## MastanKhan

araz said:


> I don't think we need an air asset to do what you are proposing . I think JH7 and its iterations would be taking a step back rather than forward. However i do fully accept a need for a twin engined platform for protective cover for the platforms like P3s which go out hunting for IN platforms and sub sea assets.




Hi,

The only place that india is vulnerable is it coastline. And to manipulate it---you need an aircraft with long legs and a heavy load. With its 2500 miles + combat radius---it can close in on the target from multiple directions.

So---when you say it is taking a step backwards----please----not in words----but in technical terms. Just saying " I don't believe in it is not enough " is not enough---what are the technical aspects of the aircraft that is an issue.

Until and unless Mumbai is not under the strike range---Pakistan does not control over the battle.


----------



## Neptune

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The need is a deep strike aircraft that can reach south india's beach cities and naval installation,
> 
> The strike from the sea can be directed from different directions at different targets---just look at the map of Pakistan and india. That brings in un-predictability to the strike element.
> 
> JF 17 does not have the legs to reach MUMBAI.



Hey,

Of course it's up to whatever your staff decides on but the thing is having fighter aircraft at Naval aviation means these aircraft are there to support PN operations and only if PN intends to strike targets at south then this acquisition can be logical as long as such ops is within PN's mission authorizations. Personally I believe in any case if your Navy was allocated a budget large enough to procure a squadron or squadrons of aircraft that can conduct deep strike over long distances, it would be by far the best decision spending on that money to larger hull frigates from China and on defense industry to integrate the ALCMs in service to be suitable for surface & subsurface platforms. But this what I say including the use of naval aviation are standardized guidelines for nato. So its likely that it might be completely a different perspective than that of PN and we can't know that unless a war happens on the seas. But whenever I talked technical issues with PN cadets at Tuzla, their first ever priority was always been supporting and upgrading the surface/subsurface fleet, most importantly the frigates. So I don't expect such a procurement.


----------



## majid mehmood

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The only place that india is vulnerable is it coastline. And to manipulate it---you need an aircraft with long legs and a heavy load. With its 2500 miles + combat radius---it can close in on the target from multiple directions.
> 
> So---when you say it is taking a step backwards----please----not in words----but in technical terms. Just saying " I don't believe in it is not enough " is not enough---what are the technical aspects of the aircraft that is an issue.
> 
> Until and unless Mumbai is not under the strike range---Pakistan does not control over the battle.


the distance from Karachi to Mumbai is 2000 km and jft can reach there with total safety ie escaping radar range it would be 3000 km
so jft has long legs


----------



## MastanKhan

majid mehmood said:


> the distance from Karachi to Mumbai is 2000 km and jft can reach there with total safety ie escaping radar range it would be 3000 km
> so jft has long legs



Hi,

The JFT combat radius is around 800 miles after it has refueled after take off.



Neptune said:


> Hey,
> But whenever I talked technical issues with PN cadets at Tuzla, their first ever priority was always been supporting and upgrading the surface/subsurface fleet, most importantly the frigates. So I don't expect such a procurement.



Hi,

And you are correct---frigates is the most important need of the navy---. But then the navy also wants its air wing--maintained and managed by the air force but under the control of navy----.

What it comes down to is that how deep can Pakistani aircraft strike into india----if you look at the border between Pakistan and india----not too many place that they can penetrate thru----they will face heavy SA batteries and interceptors.

But if you look at Karachi---Pasni---Gwadar and then look at the coastline----with an aircraft with long legs and heavy weight carrying capacity---we can wreak havoc on the indian coastline cities that are 700---1000 miles away.

On the borders---the direction is predictable----from the seas---the direction is not predictable---take a look at this map







On this map---Pasni is on the left of Karachi on the coastline---and further up is Gwadar----almost 800 miles crow flight---but with around 2600 miles strike radius after refueling---and launching capabilitiy of 150-200 miles away from the target for air to ship or air to surface missiles---it give the forces a great diversity to touch the enemy.

Mumbai---pune---Bangalore---chenai are the Jugular veins of India---. The game can change within hours if Pakistan can reach these targets.

Mumbai and Pune alone is the Cheesecake---. Pakistan could also be developing Babur air to surface cruise missiles----which will give it a strike capability launch of around 1500 KM.

Now it is solely not the responsibility of the navy to do that------navy is welcome to----but the air force can take the lead.

India has the capacity and the capability to reach anywhere in Pakistan---Pakistan must have the strength to do the same-----

The young cadets or officers would not know this r would not understand this---because the limited availability of strategic material.

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## Mughal-Prince

fatman17 said:


> PN is probably never going to get a dedicated shore-based Naval Attack squadron, but if it did, then the french *Super Etendard* with the Exocet ASM would be a great cost effective addition.



*HAAAIIIIN *Sir Jee we are talking about coming 3 decades not past decades. I believe least used M-2K9 or JFT-N will be suffice.

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## majid mehmood

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> The JFT combat radius is around 800 miles after it has refueled after take off.


what the combat radius with external fuel tanks


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## AsianLion

Pakistan Navy AirForce should get Mirages and JF17 B in numbers, build new squadrons fast.

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## Cool_Soldier

PN is building its water surface and underwater capability by adding more assets.It will need sooner fighter planes too to protect air over sea and to attack enemy air wing.
I personally think, PN will only rely on JF 17 specialized version for navy due to budget constraint otherwise twin engine jet should be priority, atleast one sqd.


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## Myth_buster_1

imagine 36 super hornets with 6 growlers

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## alphapak

Pak Navy should go for J31 stealth fighter.


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## CHI RULES

Cool_Soldier said:


> PN is building its water surface and underwater capability by adding more assets.It will need sooner fighter planes too to protect air over sea and to attack enemy air wing.
> I personally think, PN will only rely on JF 17 specialized version for navy due to budget constraint otherwise twin engine jet should be priority, atleast one sqd.


Twin engine may come from China.


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## Mohsin A

Volvo are on the verge of finalising their own engine for the SAAB Gripen NG. Once this happens, I think this would be an awesome option which could play a duel role for the Navy and Air Force.....funds permitting of course!

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## Foxtrot Delta

Jf 17 carrier born


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## mingle

Myth_buster_1 said:


> imagine 36 super hornets with 6 growlers


Germany buying them



Mohsin A said:


> Volvo are on the verge of finalising their own engine for the SAAB Gripen NG. Once this happens, I think this would be an awesome option which could play a duel role for the Navy and Air Force.....funds permitting of course!


Finely Swedes came out from box to attract more clients they need local engine good its great plane


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## Syed1.

If only we had the funds and engineering capability to build aircraft carriers. We probably only need 2 or 3. Imagine a carrier group or two stationed off the southern coast of India, behind Sri Lanka. It would be a constant threat to India and would prevent any misadventure.


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## Blacklight

Neptune said:


> whenever I talked technical issues with PN cadets at Tuzla, their first ever priority was always been supporting and upgrading the surface/subsurface fleet, most importantly the frigates. So I don't expect such a procurement.



You are speaking to the right people, after all , they are THE decision makers. Keep up the good work

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## Dil Pakistan

Whatever it is, it has to be a STEALTH JET.

War ships have multi-layered radar defences and their missiles ranges are now pretty long.
In addition, the ships travel in groups for attacks.

To penetrate, stealth is the best and only option.


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## MastanKhan

Max The Boss said:


> What is the Best fighter jet for Pakistan Navy Aviation?
> 
> 1) F-18 Super Hornet
> 2) Typhoon
> 3) Rafale
> 4) Su-35BM
> 5) J-10B
> 6) Gripen
> 7) Mig-35D
> 8) J-11B
> 
> 
> If Pakistan Navy Aviation has fighter jets it can protect ports itself without help from Pakistan Air force.
> 
> Getting fighter jets for Pakistan Navy Aviation will directly benefit Pakistan Air force because Pakistan Air force can save time to do other Air Defense activists.



Hi,

The title would have served a better purpose if you had titled it " what are the aircrafts-------" and not " aircraft ".

Pakistan navy aviation would have to do multiple jobs---we are not talking about the P3 type:---

1. anti ship missions

2. Land based targets while flying over the ocean

3. Intercepting incoming enemy aircrafts

4. flying in support of strike missions---by giving them cover---either naval missions or land strike missions---flying in support of surveillance aircraft anti submarine aircraft

Now that you have some clear goals---the questions asked may have better results---.

If I missed something---please add---.

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## Shabi1

From given list the J-10 makes most sense but the answer is not simple. Dedicated fighter wings don't make sense for navy's which don't operate aircraft carriers.

PN has no carriers so any aircraft it uses would have to be shore based. With proximity of PAF base Bolari and Masroor, I doubt PN needs a fighter jet wing of it's own since PAF has already allocated sufficient resources and created infrastructure for the job. MPA's work better as delivery trucks and PN has a program for a jet LRMPA (Long Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft). A long range jet capable of firing Raad-2 or any other anti ship cruise missile should be enough for PN. Since Pakistan has strong AWACs presence there should be sufficient time to react to provide air cover by PAF as well. Also PN surface vessels are all equipped with SAMs so again in co-ordination with AWACs they will be difficult to surprise and will be able to defend them self.

Practically PN is doing what it should do, investing in submarines which are better at offensive role and getting surface combatants with better SAMs. This is better use of limited resources.

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## aziqbal

with so many warships and ships coming into the navy its great

however there is one big hole

which helicopters will man these warships ?

also we should have a indigenous rotary wing UAV in development

even the 2 x OPV needs helos

those Z9C with 50km range will manage all the warships > I definitely hope we get a medium sized modern long range long endurance choppers for our navy

no point in amazing platforms when we dont have the helicopters to go with them

knowing Pakistan we have probably forgotten about the choppers

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## capricorn5192

Likewise there is a need of Helicopters for Pakistan Army Aviation. Chinese Z10ME is being considered after engine issue of Turkish T129 helicopter. 
Could Pakistan Navy and Army work together for a deal including offsets and local overhaul / maintenance in view of such a large order which includes a base model with respective variants?

Maybe Air Force also has Helicopters requirements?


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## Armchair

I would go with a custom JF-17 with a Qingling engine of the JH-7A. This would shift the CoG backwards, which would then allow for a longer forward section, increasing fuel. 

Add conformal fuel tanks, and you have an aircraft that can attack Indian Southern coast.


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## AsianLion

JF-17Bs.


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## khanasifm

Best jet is no jet for pn [emoji6]


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## khanasifm




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## Vapnope

khanasifm said:


> Best jet is no jet for pn [emoji6]


Actually i would that Jets in PN will free PAF from their areas of responsibility. Navy can decide to choose their own targets at will without explaining everything to PAF, during the war.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Negative , get ships with Anti Air Missiles so first point of defense can be launched in 40 seconds
Not sold on Navy requiring a *dedicated Wing*

Few more *Type054* should improve the Umbrellas of Cover in air
Secondary consideration could be *JF17 II-B Navy Configuration *

Also some coastal SAM systems should extend defensive cover


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## MH.Yang

PLA Navy aviation corps only uses two types of aircraft, J11BH and JH7A, J10 is not used.
J10c is an extreme air superiority fighter.


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## White and Green with M/S

MH.Yang said:


> J10c is an extreme air superiority fighter.


No, Its not Air superiority but In true terms is True multirole jet, J11B and BH equipped with AESAs are Extreme AIR SUPERIORITY JETS


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## lcloo

MH.Yang said:


> PLA Navy aviation corps only uses two types of aircraft, J11BH and JH7A, J10 is not used.
> J10c is an extreme air superiority fighter.


Not true. PLA Navy Aviation has 24 J10AH and J10SH, serial number #83041 to #83244. Also don't forget J15, JL9 trainer jet, many types of Y9-GX series early warning/electronic warfare aircraft, including KJ500 AEW&C and Y9Q anti-submarine patrol plane.


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