# History of Gilgit-Baltistan, AJK and Jammu Kashmir-Updates and Discussions



## WAJsal

Well it seems that many folks are interested in this topic, anyway i will use this thread to post the cultural history of GB too. Any questions will be more than welcome and anyone willing to contribute are also more than welcome. I have already touched on Liberation of GB here..Purpose of this thread will be different and i will try to keep updating this thread. Enthusiast are requested to follow this thread(@AUSTERLITZ ,@Joe Shearer ).

I will also touch on the rich history of Buddhism in GB, and the general link between Pamiri estates and Ladakh and etc, etc...
Let's get going....
@hellfire , @Joe Shearer , you can use this thread to ask more questions...I will keep updating it.
And @Joe Shearer , please use this thread to keep us updated about what you know about Jammu and Kashmir and it's history...

Image to get this kicking...





A Dance at Gilgit by G. W. Leitner, 1893
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some folks were wanting to know about the historic relations between GB and China, i would say the history in current times holds more importance and more significance...anyway an extract for those interested...More to it, but it will need some digging. 

* Establishment of Close Friendship/Affinity by Hunzukutzs with the Chinese Officials at Yarkand:*
It has been narrated through oral tradition that Mir Salim had been living at Yarkand for a period of twenty-four years prior to his becoming the Mir of Hunza. He had acquired agricultural lands at Yarkand, which have remained the property of Mirs of Hunza till recently (1962). The details of this event as narrated by oral tradition are, that a military contingent had invaded Kanjoot (Hunza). Salim accompanied that invading force as a hostage to Yarkand on its return via Raskam. He then stayed at Yarkand for twenty-four years. During this period he was adopted by an influential and prosperous noble man of Yarkand as his son and was granted agricultural land. Salim during his stay carried out negotiations with the representatives of Government of Khitau (Chinese Emperors) and entered into a pact/promising and pledging to ensure and retain Hunza as a peaceful l vassal of the Chinese emperor. Accordingly, the officials of Khitau therefore sent a representative of theirs who was called "Daroogha" with Mir Salim and sent him to Hunza. From thence onwards, such a representative i.e. "Daroogha" was sent to Kanjoot every year to ensure that Kirghiz raiders did not carryout raids on Kanjoot territory and also to see and ensure that Kanjooties did not establish close ties with any other power or government, detrimental to Chinese interest. Daroogha after the visit and inspection used to go back to Yarkand. During this tour/visit, the Chinese Daroogha used to bring with him a number of daily use items as presents for the Mir of Kanjoot (Hunza) and the Nobel and important functionaries of Hunza. The Mir of Hunza and the people of Hunza, in return presented forty yards of "Pattoo" silk cloth called Sargaz, as present and token of tribute from their side. In addition quantities of dried apricot and other dried fruits were also sent with him as presents and token of subjugation for the officials of Khitau at Yarkand. This arrangement and tradition/custom f relationship continued to remain operative till the reign and era of Mir Khisrau of Hunza, The Mir of Hunza and his officials collected the raw material i.e. silk and readymade thread from every household of Hunza and got the silk cloth woven, This cloth as called "Daroogha Yarkand's cloth". Out of the total cloth prepared, about forty yards of cloth (silk cloth) was presented to the "Daroogha" of Yarkand. The remaining cloth as taken away by the Mir and his courtiers/functionaries.

Hunza valley, during that period had become well known as "Kanjoot". It was because of the reason that it was propagated and rumoured in whole of Turkistan that his valley contained a lot of Gold and precious stones in its mountains and rivers. It was due to this reason that the people of Turkistan called it Kaan Joot (Yurt). In Turkish language Yurt or Joot means place/country and "Kaan" minerals, Thus Kaan-Yurt or Kanjoot" means mines of precious minerals and stones. Hence 'Kaan Yurt" became as “KaanJoot" in the layman's usage, Hence the name Kanjoot.

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## WAJsal

*The Flag of Hunza State*

Since ancient times and time immemorial the tiny kingdom of Hunza and its ruler had a flag which contained the signs of a bow and arrow. Before proceeding on a military campaign, a ram would be slaughtered as an offering and sacrifice and this flag military then be unfur1ed and waved and martial songs/tunes were sung and played and special tune on a special drum and kettle was played and the tune was called “Yudeni". This custom and procedure of playing the local band and unfurling and waving of flag and playing of the tune is "YUDENI DESTSALUS' in Burushaski language (meaning to awaken the special tune which was considered to be heavenly and super natural and which was produced by the special drum kept in the fort and which actually announced the occasion for combat and as per the description of Mr. E.F. Knight in his famous book "Where Three Empires Meet" _________on the top most tower of Hunza castle a magic drum is suspended in the sight of all men, which is beaten by Invisible fairy hands whenever a war In which the Thum is about to engage is destined to prove success to his arms"). In the year 1852 AD (1269 Hijra). Mir Ghazanfar Khan added a Sign of human claw/pawn in addition to the Sign of bow and arrow in the martial flag of Hunza. to commemorate and celebrate the invasion and plunder of the capital town of Nagar In that year this sign of paw/claw denoted a Sign of unity among the Hunza people. This Hunza nag continued to be maintained in this shape till the era to Mir Sir Muhammad Nazim Khan (1938) and later his son Mir Muhammad Ghazan Khan (1938-45). However Mir Muhammad Jamal Khan the present Mir (1945-1976) (or the last Mir of Hunza) has added a sign of a male lion bearing a flag in his mouth. The flag earners and its un furlers and wavers, as a tradition and custom, hail from the clan of "Datusingh" of Hunza, who still are residing in Hunza. 
--------------------------------------------------

@Joe Shearer , you might be interested...

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## Joe Shearer

WAJsal said:


> *The Flag of Hunza State*
> 
> Since ancient times and time immemorial the tiny kingdom of Hunza and its ruler had a flag which contained the signs of a bow and arrow. Before proceeding on a military campaign, a ram would be slaughtered as an offering and sacrifice and this flag military then be unfur1ed and waved and martial songs/tunes were sung and played and special tune on a special drum and kettle was played and the tune was called “Yudeni". This custom and procedure of playing the local band and unfurling and waving of flag and playing of the tune is "YUDENI DESTSALUS' in Burushaski language (meaning to awaken the special tune which was considered to be heavenly and super natural and which was produced by the special drum kept in the fort and which actually announced the occasion for combat and as per the description of Mr. E.F. Knight in his famous book "Where Three Empires Meet" _________on the top most tower of Hunza castle a magic drum is suspended in the sight of all men, which is beaten by Invisible fairy hands whenever a war In which the Thum is about to engage is destined to prove success to his arms"). In the year 1852 AD (1269 Hijra). Mir Ghazanfar Khan added a Sign of human claw/pawn in addition to the Sign of bow and arrow in the martial flag of Hunza. to commemorate and celebrate the invasion and plunder of the capital town of Nagar In that year this sign of paw/claw denoted a Sign of unity among the Hunza people. This Hunza nag continued to be maintained in this shape till the era to Mir Sir Muhammad Nazim Khan (1938) and later his son Mir Muhammad Ghazan Khan (1938-45). However Mir Muhammad Jamal Khan the present Mir (1945-1976) (or the last Mir of Hunza) has added a sign of a male lion bearing a flag in his mouth. The flag earners and its un furlers and wavers, as a tradition and custom, hail from the clan of "Datusingh" of Hunza, who still are residing in Hunza.
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> @Joe Shearer , you might be interested...



Where have you posted this blasted thing? Why am I not allowed to give these two notes a positive rating? I am going to depend on this shamelessly for the mid - nineteenth and twentieth century narrations. Once I have a little money (I need about Rs. 25,000) I HAVE to write that book on Kashmir. It's becoming obsessional.

Wonderful post, @WAJsal .

I really need time, good people. Too much turbulence for calm thought or any half-way decent writing.

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## Kambojaric

Great thread as usual @WAJsal . Any good recommendations to read on this region. I recently read 'Murder in the Hindu Kush' by Tim Hannigan, but it is an outsiders view on the region. Would be interested to know if any Pakistani and especially Gilgit Baltistani has published works of a historical nature on this region.



WAJsal said:


> Hunza valley, during that period had become well known as "Kanjoot". It was because of the reason that it was propagated and rumoured in whole of Turkistan that his valley contained a lot of Gold and precious stones in its mountains and rivers. It was due to this reason that the people of Turkistan called it Kaan Joot (Yurt). In Turkish language Yurt or Joot means place/country and "Kaan" minerals, Thus Kaan-Yurt or Kanjoot" means mines of precious minerals and stones. Hence 'Kaan Yurt" became as “KaanJoot" in the layman's usage, Hence the name Kanjoot.



Correct me if im wrong but GB and neighbouring Badakshan in Afghanistan are major sources of the much coveted Lapis Lazuli, since ancient times.

Also Wajsal , I am interested in the beliefs of the shaman (bitton I believe they are called?). It reeks of Central Asian influence. I was recently reading a book on the Mongols and couldnt help but think they shared some similarity with the beliefs held in our northern territories. Just my instinct speaking

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## WAJsal

Joe Shearer said:


> Where have you posted this blasted thing?


A source is there, won't share it due to different reasons...


Joe Shearer said:


> Why am I not allowed to give these two notes a positive rating?


Not enabled in this section(@WebMaster , you have cost me a couple of positive ratings here)



Joe Shearer said:


> Once I have a little money (I need about Rs. 25,000) I HAVE to write that book on Kashmir. It's becoming obsessional.


What's my share of the profit?  just kidding. 


Kambojaric said:


> Would be interested to know if any Pakistani and especially Gilgit Baltistani has published works of a historical nature on this region.


Yes, actually don't have the means to share it all in one piece. Will continue to update this thread. Actually i would say please ask me questions so that i can dig up specific things. Too much to post here. 
I would recommend reading 'The Gilgit rebellion', it's still the best book i have come across. Try 'Wonders in Himaliyas', need to read it myself first...

Here you go, @Joe Shearer ,( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fj6bSnc_FPOIOeEbNOtcpeY8WE6HVFUhYMKUgBObKqY/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P_V89ggSDJZzO5o0wyvQD23NWTo2yLGmMj-WlkFIIqY/edit )



Kambojaric said:


> Also Wajsal , I am interested in the beliefs of the shaman (bitton I believe they are called?). It reeks of Central Asian influence. I was recently reading a book on the Mongols and couldnt help but think they shared some similarity with the beliefs held in our northern territories. Just my instinct speaking


This is quite common, people are very superstitious. And everyone has a story to tell, or a supernatural one.



Kambojaric said:


> Correct me if im wrong but GB and neighbouring Badakshan in Afghanistan are major sources of the much coveted Lapis Lazuli, since ancient times.


Maybe, not too sure.

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## Joe Shearer

Kambojaric said:


> Great thread as usual @WAJsal . Any good recommendations to read on this region. I recently read 'Murder in the Hindu Kush' by Tim Hannigan, but it is an outsiders view on the region. Would be interested to know if any Pakistani and especially Gilgit Baltistani has published works of a historical nature on this region.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if im wrong but GB and neighbouring Badakshan in Afghanistan are major sources of the much coveted Lapis Lazuli, since ancient times.
> 
> Also Wajsal , I am interested in the beliefs of the shaman (bitton I believe they are called?). It reeks of Central Asian influence. I was recently reading a book on the Mongols and couldnt help but think they shared some similarity with the beliefs held in our northern territories. Just my instinct speaking



If you can wait a bit, I have a fairly good reading list for Gilgit and its history. That would be about a week/ten days away.

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## Hellfire

@WAJsal Thanks a tonne for taking the time to educate me (at least)!!! As I was telling @Joe Shearer at other thread, am reading up a bit so that have some basic information on the broad outline of the history of the region so that I do not pose half assed queries to you and insult your hard work and insights. I will take time to collate all the information you have earlier referred and have a rudimentary knowledge to build up on though.

Again thanks and looking forward to your thoughts and insights !!! All the best in your endeavours to teach ignorants like me something which we do not know, sir.

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## Kambojaric

Joe Shearer said:


> If you can wait a bit, I have a fairly good reading list for Gilgit and its history. That would be about a week/ten days away.



Looking forward to it 

------------------

About languages of GB I have two questions

1) As Georg Morgenstierne stated, GB probably is one of the regions with the most linguistic diversity in the world. In such a context, which language serves as the lingua franca that people use to communicate with each other?

2) burushaski as a language isolate is naturally of great interest to linguists and historians. In Burusho traditions, have they always lived in GB or did they migrate from somewhere? The below study suggests a link with Caucasian languages and even Basque! Would be interesting to know what the locals have to say on this matter 

On the Burushaski–Indo-European hypothesis by I. Čašule*

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## ghazi52

Gilgit Village, December 1947

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## niaz

Joe Shearer said:


> Where have you posted this blasted thing? Why am I not allowed to give these two notes a positive rating? I am going to depend on this shamelessly for the mid - nineteenth and twentieth century narrations. Once I have a little money (I need about Rs. 25,000) I HAVE to write that book on Kashmir. It's becoming obsessional.
> 
> Wonderful post, @WAJsal .
> 
> I really need time, good people. Too much turbulence for calm thought or any half-way decent writing.




Being a student of history, I already have a copy of Kalhana's "Rajatarangini" translated by R.S. Pundit and would like to read any other book on the history of Kashmir & Northwestern regions of the subcontinent. If & when you write a book on Kashmir, kindly let me know where & how I can get hold of a copy.

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## WAJsal

hellfire said:


> @WAJsal Thanks a tonne for taking the time to educate me (at least)!!! As I was telling @Joe Shearer at other thread, am reading up a bit so that have some basic information on the broad outline of the history of the region so that I do not pose half assed queries to you and insult your hard work and insights. I will take time to collate all the information you have earlier referred and have a rudimentary knowledge to build up on though.
> 
> Again thanks and looking forward to your thoughts and insights !!! All the best in your endeavours to teach ignorants like me something which we do not know, sir.





Kambojaric said:


> About languages of GB I have two questions
> 
> 1) As Georg Morgenstierne stated, GB probably is one of the regions with the most linguistic diversity in the world. In such a context, which language serves as the lingua franca that people use to communicate with each other?
> 
> 2) burushaski as a language isolate is naturally of great interest to linguists and historians. In Burusho traditions, have they always lived in GB or did they migrate from somewhere? The below study suggests a link with Caucasian languages and even Basque! Would be interesting to know what the locals have to say on this matter
> 
> On the Burushaski–Indo-European hypothesis by I. Čašule*


@Joe Shearer , Kambojariic's post is very much correct and just the fact has baffled me for years now. How can a region so small be so diverse not only language wise but physique and the general ways of life of people are very different compared to anyone in the region. As far as i can remember, Shina, Khowar, Burushiski(which has a couple of branches and i should know both of them and unfortunately don't), Waki, Balti are the local languages of GB. Actually Kohistanis influence in Chilas and surrounding areas is there, Pashto is also spoken in some areas near Chilas area. And now English and Urdu is also spoken.
PS: can speak Shina and Khowar. @shimshali , can speak Waki and Shina i guess...
I have a brilliant piece on this, describing culture and other aspects in GB. Or Gilgit Agency, as it was done by Major Brown, anyway give me some time to post it here.
regards

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## Joe Shearer

niaz said:


> Being a student of history, I already have a copy of Kalhana's "Rajatarangini" translated by R.S. Pundit and would like to read any other book on the history of Kashmir & Northwestern regions of the subcontinent. If & when you write a book on Kashmir, kindly let me know where & how I can get hold of a copy.



Sir, if you do me the honour of reading the manuscript, I will be more pleased than I can say. I count you with Shantiveer Kaul and Ramesh Tamiri (the latter in spite of his politics, which sets my teeth on edge; unfortunately, his sheer learning compels respect). 

Please give me a little time; the outlines are ready, but I really want to do a properly authenticated work. 

I am deeply honoured that you took notice. With sincere Eid greetings, from one of your fans.

@WAJsal 
@Kambojaric 

PLEASE get in touch with Dr. Sadaf Munshi, at the University of North Texas. She comes from a very respected family, and is a linguist, teaching at North Texas. One of the truly learned persons I have the honour to have known (from a great distance). She will not know who is Joe Shearer, but will instantly relate to your interest - her PhD was on Burushaski!!!!

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## WAJsal

Quoting these posts as they make a good analysis and some historical information present too....


niaz said:


> I thank Hon. Rain Man for bringing some logical sense into the debate rather than emotional tirade. My view on this issue is slightly different.
> 
> It is hard to fathom why Sheikh Abdulla and the J&K National Conference favoured India. It could be that like many other Muslim leaders such Abul Kalam Azad, Bacha Khan, Mulana Maudoodi of Jamaat Islami and Maulana Madani of Jamiat ulema-e –Hind, he was against the Two Nation Theory or that Sheikh Abdulla had ambitions of an Independent Kashmir with him as Head of the State. It is however alleged that it was primarily Sh. Abdulla who was instrumental in the Maharraja signing the Instrument of Accession which was accepted by Mountbatten, Gov. General of India on October 27, 1947. The Instrument which forms the basis of accession of Kashmir to India clearly states:
> 
> “It is further specified that:
> 
> 2. I accept the matters specified in the schedule hereto as the matters with respect to which the Dominion Legislature may make law for this State.
> 
> Thus the power of the Dominion to make laws was restricted to the matters mentioned in the Schedule namely Defence, Foreign Affairs and Communications and a few ancillary subjects specified in the schedule. For all other matters concurrence of the State Government was essential.”
> 
> In my humble opinion start of the Kashmir problem is the key issue. The condition of that Kashmir would remain an autonomous State with the Indian union. More like a ‘Confederation’.
> 
> On the 1948 Resolution, most politicians on both the sides have never read and majority of the population of Pakistan is completely ignorant the text.
> 
> Re the Clause:
> 
> *To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State;*
> 
> All the tribal Lashkars were evacuated. However India insisted that all of the Pak Army personnel should also withdraw.
> Then problem arose in the implementation of the following clause:
> 
> Quote
> 
> 
> (i) That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of
> intimidation to the inhabitants of the State;
> (ii) That as small a number as possible should be retained in forward areas;
> (iii) That any reserve of troops which may be included in the total strength should be located
> within their present base area.
> 
> Unquote.
> 
> Pakistan’s understanding was that this meant a very skeleton force confined to the barracks in Sri Nagar and at Jammu with no more than a few manned check posts at the Pakistan- J&K border. Indians interpreted it to mean the numbers sufficient to stop all future border infiltrations. This meant that once Pak Army vacated, the AJK would also be occupied by India with no prospects of winning it back should India refuse to abide by the promise of holding the Plebiscite.
> 
> That is why Liaqat Ali- Nehru talks failed and the pact signed by the two leaders in April 1950 was limited to the return of the refugees, forced conversions and right of the minorities only. Problem is that majority of the population in Pakistan is completely ignorant of the text of 1948 Resolution and most politicians & political analysts have either not read it in detail or deliberately choose to mis-inform the public. There have been subsequent talks on Kashmir issue in 1955 involving Mohammed Ali Bogra and Iskandar Mirza (then Interior Minister) with Pundit Nehru & Abu Kalam Azad but again nothing concrete came out of it.
> 
> Turmoil in Kashmir was on a very low key until Nehru decided to tear the Instrument of Accession and decided to fully integrate Kashmir into India. Nation Conference leaders were maliciously charged in the famous ‘Kashmir Conspiracy’ case and Sheikh Abdulla jailed for 11 years; just reward for trusting Nehru & India to keep their word???
> 
> I see politicians & analysts in TV programs every day quite rightly moaning about the world’s indifference on Indian brutality in the Kashmir valley, without admitting that apart from the fact that India is now a global economic & military power and thus unlikely to care much about the international opinion; Indians can also legally tell rest of the world to go to hell because during the Simla Agreement, our much heralded Z A Bhutto agreed that:
> 
> Quote
> 
> The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan are resolved that the two countries put an end to the conflict and confrontation that have hitherto marred their relations and work for the promotion of a friendly and harmonious relationship and the establishment of durable peace in the subcontinent so that both countries may henceforth devote their resources and energies to the pressing task of advancing the welfare of their people.
> 
> In order to achieve this objective, the Government of India and the Government of Pakistan have agreed as follows:
> 
> (i) That the principles and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations shall govern the relations between the two countries.
> 
> (ii) That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organization, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peace and harmonious relations.
> 
> (iii) That the prerequisite for reconciliation, good neighborliness and durable peace between them is a commitment by both the countries to peaceful coexistence respect for each others territorial integrity and sovereignty and noninterference in each others internal affairs, on the basis of equality and mutual benefit. That the basic issues and causes of conflict which have bedeviled the relations between the two countries for the last 25 years shall be resolved by peaceful means.
> 
> (v) That they shall always respect each others national unity, territorial integrity, political independence and sovereign equality.
> 
> (vi) That in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, they will refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of each other.
> 
> Unquote.
> 
> The above wording clearly demonstrates to any neutral observer that India is justified in insisting on bilateral talks without reference to the 1948 UN Resolution for all India - Pakistan disputes.
> 
> Whether I & my Pakistani compatriots think that India in committing genocide in Kashmir or Indian members think that all the troubles have been sponsored by Pakistan is of no consequence whatsoever. Because notwithstanding that fact as to who is morally & ethically right or wrong or which country is in illegal occupation; until such time that Pakistan becomes strong enough to conquer Kashmir; there could be no end to the Indian occupation of the Kashmir valley because India is certainly not going to give it away.
> 
> Only possible way to end the misery & bloodshed of the Kashmiris is the proposal by Musharraf whereby the freedom of movement for the Kashmiris across the LOC is facilitated to extent that the border becomes irrelevant.
> 
> However, such a solution needs bold & visionary leadership which is currently non-existent in both the countries. Ground reality indicates that as long as naïve Pakistani Public continue to believe that we can capture Red Fort thru Jazba & lathis and the Hindutva chauvinists continue to dictate Indian policy; sadly Kashmiri blood-shed will continue.
> 
> 
> 
> It can be argued that Instrument was signed under ‘Duress’ because Mountbatten had refused to help the Kashmir State until the Maharaja unless signs the Instrument of Accession. However this being a technical point, any objective observer would ignore it.
> 
> Two wrongs don't make a right but;
> 
> Quote
> 
> Immediately after making the announcement in _Dastrural Amal Sarkar Junagadh_, the Jungadh government communicated to Pakistan its wish to accede, and a delegation headed by Ismail was sent to Karachi with the Instrument of Accession signed by the Nawab. The Constituent Assembly of Pakistan considered the proposal in detail and approved it. The Quaid-e-Azam, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, as Governor General of Pakistan, counter-signed the Instrument of Accession on 15 September 1947. This was notified in the _Gazette of Pakistan_ and _Dasturul Amal_, the Gazette of Junagadh, on that date.
> 
> On 24 September 1947, Mohandas K. Gandhi condemned the action of the Junagadh government in a prayer meeting held at Delhi.
> 
> Soon columns of Indian tanks and other vehicles carrying Indian soldiers entered Junagadh state, led by Brig. Gurdial Singh, commander of the Kathiawar defense force. The States of Nawanagar , Bhavnagar and Porbander had agreed to the request to place their State forces under the command of Gurdial Singh. All these forces were suitably deployed, their movements and manoeuvres creating a steadying effect all over Kathiawar. The Army Commander had strict orders not to violateJunagadh territory in any way. At 6 p.m. on 9 November, Captain Harvey Johnson and Chief Secretary Gheewala, a civil servant of Junagadh state, formally handed over the charge of the State to the Indian Government.
> 
> On the same day, Nehru sent a telegram to Liaquat Ali Khan about the Indian take-over of Junagadh. Khan sent a return telegram to Nehru stating that Junagadh was Pakistani territory, and nobody except the Pakistan government was authorised to invite anybody to Junagadh. He also accused the Indian Government of naked aggression on Pakistan's territory and of violating international law. The Government of Pakistan strongly opposed the Indian occupation. Nehru wrote:
> 
> In view of special circumstances pointed out by Junagadh Dewan that is the Prime Minister of Junagadh – our Regional Commissioner at Rajkot has taken temporarily charge of Junagadh administration. This has been done to avoid disorder and resulting chaos. We have, however, no desire to continue this arrangement and wish to find a speedy solution in accordance with the wishes of the people of Junagadh. We have pointed out to you previously that final decision should be made by means of referendum or plebiscite. We would be glad to discuss this question and allied matters affecting Junagadh with representatives of your Government at the earliest possible moment convenient to you. We propose to invite Nawab of Junagadh to send his representatives to this conference.
> 
> Unquote
> 
> Indians decide which Instrument of Accession is legal and which one is not. Might is always right even when it is wrong.



*For those comparing Balochistan with Kashmir issue....
*


Azlan Haider said:


> Nothing wrong with editing your post(s) mate but what has _Balochistan_ got to do with the topic here ? Of course we can discuss that as much as you want, but I think we should do that on _relevant_ thread(s).
> 
> You can compare _Balochistan Insurgency in Pakistan_ to the _Maoist Insurgency in Northeast India_.
> 
> Unlike Kashmir, Balochistan and Northeast Indian states are NOT _Disputed Territories_ under International Law.
> 
> _Accession of Kashmir_ is different from accession of any other Indian Princely State as the accession has been placed before the UN Security Council for arranging a ratification or otherwise by the people of the State under the auspices of the United Nations. Therefore, the arrangement caused through the accession of 26 October 1947 has been taken over by the interests of 195 countries of the UN (including Pakistan as a member nation of UN and as a party). Pakistan as a party to the dispute administers two administrations of the State on its side of cease fire line.




*Jungadh and Kashmir-hypocrisy...?*



niaz said:


> Quote
> 
> Immediately after making the announcement in _Dastrural Amal Sarkar Junagadh_, the Jungadh government communicated to Pakistan its wish to accede, and a delegation headed by Ismail was sent to Karachi with the Instrument of Accession signed by the Nawab. The Constituent Assembly of Pakistan considered the proposal in detail and approved it. The Quaid-e-Azam, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, as Governor General of Pakistan, counter-signed the Instrument of Accession on 15 September 1947. This was notified in the _Gazette of Pakistan_ and _Dasturul Amal_, the Gazette of Junagadh, on that date.
> 
> On 24 September 1947, Mohandas K. Gandhi condemned the action of the Junagadh government in a prayer meeting held at Delhi.
> 
> Soon columns of Indian tanks and other vehicles carrying Indian soldiers entered Junagadh state, led by Brig. Gurdial Singh, commander of the Kathiawar defense force. The States of Nawanagar , Bhavnagar and Porbander had agreed to the request to place their State forces under the command of Gurdial Singh. All these forces were suitably deployed, their movements and manoeuvres creating a steadying effect all over Kathiawar. The Army Commander had strict orders not to violateJunagadh territory in any way. At 6 p.m. on 9 November, Captain Harvey Johnson and Chief Secretary Gheewala, a civil servant of Junagadh state, formally handed over the charge of the State to the Indian Government.
> 
> On the same day, Nehru sent a telegram to Liaquat Ali Khan about the Indian take-over of Junagadh. Khan sent a return telegram to Nehru stating that Junagadh was Pakistani territory, and nobody except the Pakistan government was authorised to invite anybody to Junagadh. He also accused the Indian Government of naked aggression on Pakistan's territory and of violating international law. The Government of Pakistan strongly opposed the Indian occupation. Nehru wrote:
> 
> In view of special circumstances pointed out by Junagadh Dewan that is the Prime Minister of Junagadh – our Regional Commissioner at Rajkot has taken temporarily charge of Junagadh administration. This has been done to avoid disorder and resulting chaos. We have, however, no desire to continue this arrangement and wish to find a speedy solution in accordance with the wishes of the people of Junagadh. We have pointed out to you previously that final decision should be made by means of referendum or plebiscite. We would be glad to discuss this question and allied matters affecting Junagadh with representatives of your Government at the earliest possible moment convenient to you. We propose to invite Nawab of Junagadh to send his representatives to this conference.




*Another good analysis made in this post... Post-partition and the general confusion that Pakistan was to be blamed for not holding a referendum in Kashmir...
*
,


hassamun said:


> First of all, thank you for your patience in writing so much as it must be more than 6 am in India. The following is what I would like you to know which of course can be proven....
> 
> The Maharaja decided to stay independent because he expected that the State's Muslims would be unhappy with accession to India, and the Hindus and Sikhs would become vulnerable if he joined Pakistan. As per the Census in 1941, 71% of people in Kashmir were Muslims, more than 90% in some areas.
> 
> The violence in the eastern districts of Jammu that started in September 1947, developed into a widespread `massacre' of Muslims around 20 October, organised by the Hindu Dogra troops of the State and perpetrated by the local Hindus, including members of the RSS. The Maharaja himself was implicated in some instances. A team of British observers commissioned by India and Pakistan identified 70,000 Muslims killed, whereas the Azad Kashmir Government claimed that 200,000 Muslims were killed. About 400,000 Muslims fled to West Pakistan, some of whom made their way to the western districts of Poonch and Mirpur, which were undergoing rebellion. Many of these Muslims believed that the Maharaja ordered the killings in Jammu. According to reports these Jammu Muslims joined the uprising in Poonch and the western districts, and instigated the formation of the Azad Kashmir government.
> 
> In the north of the state lay Gilgit, which had been leased by British India but returned to the Maharaja shortly before Independence. Gilgit's population did not favour the State's accession to India. Sensing their discontent, Major William Brown, the Maharaja's commander of the Gilgit Scouts, did a coup on 1 November 1947, overthrowing the Governor Ghansara Singh. The bloodless _coup d'etat_ was planned by Brown to the last detail under the code name `_Datta Khel.'_ Gilgit locals formed a provisional government (_Aburi Hakoomat_), naming Raja Shah Rais Khan as the president and Mirza Hassan Khan as the commander-in-chief. But, Major Brown had already telegraphed Pakistan to take over. Pakistan's Political Agent, Khan Mohammad Alam Khan, arrived on 16 November and took over the administration of Gilgit.
> 
> During the 1950s, Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru held talks with Pakistan's Prime Minister Muhammad Ali Bogra to sort out the plebiscite issue in Kashmir . The discussions between the two suggest that Nehru had even agreed to appoint a Plebiscite Administrator by April 1954. However, Pakistan then joined the CENTO alliance and India used this as a reason to reject the plebiscite and to cancel the talks. According to Nehru, Pakistan's entry into the CENTO alliance was an expression of Pakistan's insincerity in resolving the issue. However, in May 1955 Nehru held talks with Muhammad Ali Bogra during which he underlined his willingness to solve the Kashmir issue on the basis of a Partition of the state along the cease fire line. Nehru's cable to Krishna Menon in 1957 suggests that he favoured a 'readjustment' of the ceasefire line on strategic and geographic grounds. From the 1950s, India became lukewarm to the idea of a plebiscite and instead adopted the view that the Constituent Assembly of Jammu and Kashmir, which was elected in 1951, had ratified the state's accession to India therefore it was unnecessary to further determine the wishes of the Kashmiri people.



@hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Kambojaric , please make posts sharing some interesting information here for future references...

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## Joe Shearer

WAJsal said:


> Quoting these posts as they make a good analysis and some historical information present too....
> 
> 
> *For those comparing Balochistan with Kashmir issue....
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *Jungadh and Kashmir-hypocrisy...?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Another good analysis made in this post... Post-partition and the general confusion that Pakistan was to be blamed for not holding a referendum in Kashmir...
> *
> ,
> 
> @hellfire ,@Joe Shearer ,@Kambojaric , please make posts sharing some interesting information here for future references...



Certainly, just give me a little time to catch my breath. There are a number of very interesting points that have been made.


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## Hellfire

@WAJsal still catching up on your posts .. that is a full time task!!!

thanks for the tag .. will join in when September ends - literally. Renewing my US license exam scores ..


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## WAJsal

* The People of Gilgit *
By: Major brown

To attempt to trace the origin of the numerous tribes of the Gilgit Agency is a difficult task as no records are available. I have never studied their history in detail; I prefer to believe in the old traditional stories handed down from generation to generation as I consider they are much more in keeping with this romantic land.

Experts such as Drew, Biddulph and Schomberg who have really studied the history of the Agency have all disagreed on the origin of the Various tribes; far be it from me to argue with my elders and betters, so any factual statement I make in this chapter is merely my own idea and not the result of any careful study.

The two senior States are of course Hunza and Nagir. The men of Hunza are fine upstanding specimens of manhood. They are fair skinned, well built and of a generally pleasing countenance. They are cheery, friendly and humorous. Active and strong, they can turn their hand to anything whether it be agriculture, arts and crafts, road and water channel engineering, bridge building, cottage industries, or service with officers in Gilgit either in the house or in the stable. They are pleasant companions on trek and wily shikaris. They are first rate on the hillside and their powers of endurance are remarkable; before the Agency was occupied the hotter blood was accustomed to raiding but years of Pax Britannica have reduced the tribe to a peace loving but in no way indolent race.

Across the river lies the neighbouring state of Nagir. The appearance and characteristics of the men of Nagir are vastly different from those of Hunza. They are smaller and darker; their standard of living is lower and they are less enterprising.

This is a hard description and is based on the average Nagiri. There are, however, folk in Nagir who are as fine men as you could wish to meet and I have many good friends there.

The question therefore arises whether the Hunza folk and Nagiris are of the same origin. I personally think they are. But in the old days before the ever moving glaciers dosed it, there was a route from Nagir to Baltistan, and the Baltis were allowed to intermarry with the Nagiris. Later there was intermarriage with Kashmiris and with the, by then, heterogeneous Gilgitis. Such intermarriage was never allowed in Hunza; and this, I think, accounts for the fundamental difference between the two tribes. .

The Hunza people disclaim a common origin with the Nagiris. They claim that they are descended from some of Alexander the Great’s soldiers who settled in Hunza during the campaigns of the famous conqueror.

The story also goes that in olden days two princes of Persia named Abul Faiz and Abul Ghani came to Baltistan. There was a queen reigning there then whose custom was to live with any man she liked and when tired of him she would have him put to death. A similar fate awaited all sons born from such illicit love affairs. However, she fell in love with Abul Faiz but he only consented to return the love on the condition that he became her husband. As the queen was considered divine, a divine sign was required before marriage was possible. So one day Abul Faiz concealed himself on the top of a high rock. The queen fired an arrow in the direction of the rock and announced to the ignorant bystanders that in the area where the arrow fell her future husband would be found. Abul Faiz then appeared and was duly married to the queen. A son was born by the name of Jamshed. One day Jamshed set off on a shooting trip and passed down the Indus through Haramosh to Dhanyor which is on the left bank of the Gilgit river some three miles below the settlement. There he entered into conversation with the locals who informed him that there was a frightful tyrant ruling in Gilgit called Sri Badat. On one occasion Sri Badat went to a woman’s house and demanded food and she fed him with the meat of a kid that had been raised on her own milk. The king enjoyed it so much that ever after he ate nothing but the flesh of young children. Jamshed crossed to Gilgit and by chance met Sri Badat’s daughter. They fell in love with each other at first sight and they conspired to kill the king so that Jamshed could usurp the throne. Only fire could harm Sri Badat so they dug a pit near the castle gate and covered it with leaves. During the night the alarm was raised and the cannibal king rushed out of the gate to investigate. He fell into the pit and was killed by the villagers throwing burning torches on him. Sri Badat was the last Hindu king of Gilgit.

For many years after that an effigy of Sri Badat was publicly burned at the annual festival of Nauroze. The custom however died out but was revived again in 1944 by that great lover of legend and folk lore, Lt -Colonel E H Cobb, OBE, who was Political Agent, and an effigy of the tyrant ruler was burned at Sonekote amidst great excitement.

Azer Jamshecl ruled Hunza and Nagir and later his descendants, and from him the origin of the ruling families is claimed. But this genealogy is more legend than fact and little trust can be placed in it, although there was in actual fact a Hindu ruler called Sri Bädat in Gilgit.

I believe myself that the tribes of Hunza and Nagir came from some faraway place in Central Asia in the olden days and settled in the valleys they inhabit today.

Now let us look at the people of Gilgit Sub-division, Punial, Ishkoman, Kuh Ghizr, and Yasin. I am of the opinion that they are all of one stock and probably came from that strip of country called Indus Kohistan which borders the great river before it debouches on the Peshawar plain. The people of Gilgit Sub-division show traces of intermarriage with Kashmiris, Baltis, and nomadic tribes which earn their living by gold washing. Ishkoman used to be a penal settlement. In the Puniali, the Yasini, and the man of Kuh Ghizr you find a specimen of manhood which can almost vie with the Hunza folk. They are less active as their economic situation is not so serious; but they are tough, good shikaris in the mountains and capable of tremendous endurance.

The Yasini and Kuh Ghizri seem at first sight to be very dull in the head - they blame the intense cold of their country for this - but when shown what to do and how to do it, will persevere until the task is completed. The Punialis are famous as polo players - they have a team of giants.

The two main characteristics of the dress of the folk of the Gilgit Agency are the koi and the choga.

The koi, which is the headgear, consists of a bag of homespun woollen cloth some two feet in length with a round circular bottom. The bag is rolled up tightly round the edges until the padded circle so formed reaches the circular bottom or top as it now is. This cap is the traditional headwear. For festive occasions and for off duty hours a white koi is used in the rim of which is usually stuck a heron’s crest or the head feathers of the beautiful Minal pheasant. This looks very attractive indeed and suitable for these hardy mountaineers. For work, the colour of the koi is brown or grey.

The choga is a long homespun cloak reaching to the ankles with long sleeves. It is usually coloured grey or brown through the ruling classes and richer people possess white ones with beautiful designs embroidered on them by the women folk. The choga is worn over the shoulders and the sleeves hang loose. They are chiefly worn in winter as protection from the bitter winds. Everyone possesses a choga including the children.

The remainder of the dress consists of baggy trousers drawn in round the ankles and a shirt worn outside, both of whatever cloth is available in the bazaar. Striped cloth is a favourite among the Hunzawals and the more enlightened but the average peasant wears something more sombre. There is no rule, however, and it depends on what is available.

In the Gilgit Sub-division the Pathan chapli is mostly worn on the feet. In the States and Districts, however, long soft boots of home cured ibex hide are used; they are called paboos. But for the mountains and rough work and by the poorer people, the taoti is worn. A taouti is a strip of roughly cured goat skin wound round the leg and foot and held in place by a leather lace. It gives a grand grip on the hillside either on rock, shale, or grass.

European dress is much liked by the ruling classes and Officers of the Scouts and they take every opportunity of wearing it. A portly gentleman, with fair skin and possibly red hair, wearing a well cut plus-four suit, correct to a detail, might well be the village squire in England. Or the long lanky sportsman with sharp features, dressed in corduroys and long riding jacket nicely waisted, could take his place without comment among the horse copers at the Dublin Horse Show.

The houses of the peasants and zemindars are low squat buildings of stone and mud. The living quarters are entered through the byre as this keeps out the winter wind and the warmth exuding from the goats, sheep and cows acts as central heating. The living room is usually sunk below the ground level and is lit by a smoke hole in the roof. The open fire is in the middle of the floor and the smoke escapes through the roof. The floor is of dried mud and along one side of the room is a raised dais where the family sits during the day and lie crosswise at night. Adjacent to the living room is the storeroom where grain, dried apricots, and the necessities of life are kept. In Hunza the houses are spotlessly clean - elsewhere they are not so. The Mirs and Rajas have built themselves bungalows in European style with all modern comforts.

Two main meals are eaten in the day. The peasant will normally rise at sunrise and work in the fields till 9 am when he will return for breakfast. This will consist of a vegetable stew cooked in ghi (clarified butter) and chupattis - flat pancakes of bread made from wheat, barley, or maize flour depending on stocks. At midday he will take a light snack of fresh or dried apricots or mulberries, depending on the season, washed down by buttermilk. The evening meal at about 6 pm will be the same as the breakfast. On occasions a sheep or goat will be slaughtered and meat added to the diet though this is not regular. The ruling classes like European food too, and when entertained by British Officers in Gilgit they consume it with relish.

The entire population of the Gilgit Agency is Mohammedan apart from some hundred Sikhs and Hindus who are traders, merchants, and clerks. Three separate sects of Mohammedanism exist in the Agency. Hunza, Punial, and most of Yasin and Kuh Ghizr are Maulai. The Maulais are followers of H.H. The Agha Khan who claims direct descent from Ali who married Fatima, daughter of the Prophet. They care little for Muslim prejudices and are fond of locally produced wine. They unquestionably believe in God but do not indulge in praying, fasting, making pilgrimages, veiling women folk and the other religious observances of Islam. There is no religious fanaticism to contend with and an event of really great significance would be required to occasion a jehad or Holy War. They have as practical an outlook on religion as they have on life. Nagir is entirely Shiah. The Shiass believe that the first three Khalifas or disciples of the Prophet, Abu Bakr, Osman, and Omar, were bogus and recognise only Ali whom the Sunnis believe was the fourth. The best description of the difference between the Shiahs and the Sunnis is that the former might be regarded as High Church Mohammedans and the latter as Low Church. The Shiahs are fanatically religious in Gilgit and obey the lessons of the Holy Qoran to the letter.

The Sunnis are tolerant and liberal minded though devout. There are a few Sunnis in Yàsin, and Kuh Ghizr; Ishkoman is mixed Sunni and Maulai; Chilas is wholly Sunni; there is one Shiah family in Hunza; the Gilgit Sub-division is mixed Shiah and Sunni and this is the only real danger spot on account of religion in an otherwise contented Agency. The rivalry between the Sunnis and Shiahs (or Shi’ites) is extremely serious, especially in the Sub-division and unless the situation is handled very carefully there is always the likelihood of a regrettable breach of the peace. Only under exceptionally significant circumstances would the Sunnis and Shiahs unite in one movement. In the Sub-division a balance of power must always be maintained and the usual modus operandi of trouble makers is to aggravate this rivalry. Such methods never fail and such persons must be crushed with a strong hand.

The languages of the Agency are interesting. Shina is the lingua franca of this area and generally talked. Shina belongs to the Indo-Iranian branch of languages and is akin to Pushto, Hindustanj, and Persian. For a scholar with a knowledge of these three languages Shina easy to master, especially since the vocabulary is necessarily limited.

Khowar, the language of Chitral, is of the same stock and is talked in Yasin and Kuh Ghizr owing to the Chitrali influence in these two districts.

The language of Hunza, Nagir proper, and the upper portion of the Nagir valley, and certain villages in Yasin is Burushaski, which is really akin to no known language in the world. Its vocabulary is entirely its own and it is a very difficult language to attempt to learn. There is simply no information to give on the origin of this language so it must just remain one of the mysteries of Central Asia.

Shina is talked in Punial, Gilgit Sub-division, the lower portion of Nagir, and a dialect of Shina is found in Chilas, varying very little but pronounced more broadly.

Hindustani or Punjabi, as it is called, is understood everywhere and is a sufficient go-between for the unenterprising foreigner. [1]

[1]Chapter 1, The Gilgit Rebellion by Major Brown

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enjoy, @Joe Shearer ,@Kambojaric ,@Tergon18 ,@unleashed ,@hellfire ,@Arsalan ,@Kaptaan ...

Any questions? it's all very familiar description and surprisingly sounds like an account made quite recently.

PS: I am mixture, Half Hunzik, half Ghizri and Gilti blood in me too.

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## Joe Shearer

WAJsal said:


> * The People of Gilgit *
> By: Major brown
> 
> Enjoy, @Joe Shearer ,@Kambojaric ,@Tergon18 ,@unleashed ,@hellfire ,@Arsalan ,@Kaptaan ...
> 
> Any questions? it's all very familiar description and surprisingly sounds like an account made quite recently.
> 
> PS: I am mixture, Half Hunzik, half Ghizri and Gilti blood in me too.



I am happy for you that the author takes a flair with words to assist his physical descriptions of a beautiful country and a handsome people. Having said that, I have issues with Maj. Brown.

When I read it in the original, I was struck unpleasantly by the reek of racism that imbued it (Brown has gone further than he did in this book in other writings, including letters, and those references are downright nauseating). That generation was obsessed by colour and complexion, and this man was no different. There is so much sociological matter scattered in this short exposition, that it would take a learner paper merely to parse it. 

The only way I could bring myself to read it was to imagine it to be an account of a markhor shooting expedition, and treat it with the detachment that would demand.


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## Apprentice

Are there any Buddhists in Gilgit Baltistan?


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## JattSikhsoldier

What? Well buil? Nobody in those mountain are well built people


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## Apprentice

The religious (and sectarian) demographics of the undivided state of Jammu and Kashmir (from the 1941 Census report).


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## Apprentice

Religious and ethnic breakdown of the undivided State of Jammu and Kashmir (from the 1941 Census)


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## Apprentice

All snapshots taken from 1941 Census report


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## Kambojaric

This cannibal Shri Badat character seems to be interesting. Some western scholars like John Mock seem to allege he was a mythical character. What is the local opinion on Shri Badat @WAJsal ?

This is a piece by Ahmed Hasan Dani on this topic:
According to traditional history,the main ruling dynasty in Gilgit is known as the Trakhans. It is from this dynasty that the rulers of Nager and Hunza derive their origin. Similarly, the rulers of Yasin, Punial and Chitral had close connections with them. It is only the history of Baltistan which had its separate role to play, although that also had links with Gilgit on several occasions. Tradition traces the origin of the Trakhans to an imaginary Kayani prince of Persia, by name Azur Jamshıd, who is said to have fled here after the Arab conquest of Persia and secretly married Nur Bakht Khatun, the daughter of the Buddhist king Srı Badat. A son was born, who was named Kark or Garg. Although Azur Jamshıd is credited with having overthrown Sri Badat and succeeded to his throne, he chose to abdicate sixteen years later, after handing over the throne to his queen, who ruled until her son grew up. The son, Kark, held power for fifty-five years and was succeeded by Rajah Sau Malik.

page 222, THE WESTERN HIMALAYAN STATES by A. H. Dani

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## subcontinent01

Do people in Azad Kashmir self identify as Kashmiris? I mean I know the whole J&K state is basically 5 areas - Jammu(Dogri people), AK(Pothohari? Pahari?), Gilgit-Baltistan, Kashmir and Ladakh. Given there are very few native kashmiris on that side of border, isn't there any movement or atleast some recognition of the fact by natives that it isn't a Kashmir proper region?


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## maximdude

Im dogri guy from jammu .bt now live in chandigarh. Kindly Post more info without bringing any politics


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## Zibago

maximdude said:


> Im dogri guy from jammu .bt now live in chandigarh. Kindly Post more info without bringing any politics


can you speak dogri?


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## maximdude

Zibago said:


> can you speak dogri?


I lived in chandigarh since my childhood so i understand little bit .


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## niaz

The princely state of Jammu & Kashmir, in addition to the Kashmir valley comprised of 4 or 5 ethnical different regions.

· Jammu province: Districts of Jammu, Jasrota (Kathua), Udhampur, Reasi and Mirpur.

· Kashmir province: Districts of Kashmir South (Anantnag), Kashmir North (Baramulla) and Muzaffarabad.

· Frontier districts: Wazarats of Ladakh and Gilgit.

· Internal jagirs: Poonch, Bhaderwah and Chenani.

· Frontier illaqas: Punial, Ishkoman, Yasin, Kuh-Ghizer, Hunza, Nagar, Chilas.

I shall attempt to give the back ground as to how & when these areas because part of the State of Jammu & Kashmir according to my research. Since we have the good fortune of having a few members from the Northern Areas; I would welcome any errors in my facts or the time line.


Jammu.

The Dogra state of Jammu was established by Dhruv Dev during the last years of the Mughal Empire. Raja Gulab Singh, a direct descendant, was 16 years old in 1808, when Ranjit Singh conquered Jammu. Gulab Singh along with his brothers Dhyan Singh and Suchet Singh joined the Sikh army. Gulab Singh soon distinguished himself in battles, and after the conquest of Kishtwar (1821) and the subjugation of Rajpuri; Gulab Singh was made a hereditary Raja of Jammu in 1822.

Ladakh.

The conquest of Kishtwar meant that Ranjeet Singh controlled the two roads which led into Ladakh. Even though their ruler paid tribute to the Kashmir, Ladakh has been an independent kingdom for a very long time. After Ahmed Shah Abdali captured Kashmir, Ladakhi was also subjugated, however after Kashmir’s freedom from Afghan rule, Ladakh became independent again.

Despite the mountains and glaciers barring the way, Dogra troops under General Zorawar Singh conquered the whole of Ladakh in in early 1834 and Ladkah came under the Sikh rule. In 1841, Chinese forces defeated the Sikh army and besieged Leh. After being checked by the Sikh forces, in September 1842, the Chinese and the Sikhs signed a treaty which stipulated no transgressions or interference in the other country's frontiers. The British defeat ofthe Sikhs in 1846 resulted in transfer of sovereignty over Ladakh to the British,

When Kashmir was sold to Gulab Singh of Jammu in 1846. Ladakh was turned over to Gulab Singh as well.


Aksai Chin.


One of the earliest treaties regarding the boundaries in the western sector was signed in 1842. British commissioners attempted to meet with Chinese officials to discuss the border they now shared. The boundaries beyond the extremities of Aksai Chin near Panggong Lake and near the Karakoram Pass were well-defined, but the Aksai Chin area in between lay undefined. This was referred to as Johnson Line.

In 1897 a British military officer, Sir John Ardagh, proposed a boundary line along the crest of the Kun Lun mountains north of the Yarkand River. At the time Britain was concerned at the danger of Russian expansion as China weakened, and Ardagh argued that his line was more defensible. The Ardagh line was effectively a modification of the Johnson line, and became known as the "Johnson-Ardagh Line".

In 1893, a map of the boundary proposed by China to George Macartney, the British Conusul-general at Kashgar. This boundary placed the Lingzi Tang plains, which are south of the Laktsang range, in India, and Aksai Chin proper, which is north of the Laktsang range, in China. Macartney agreed with the proposal and forwarded it to the British Indian government.

The Karakoram Mountains formed a natural boundary, which would set the British borders up to the Indus River watershed while leaving the Tarim River watershed in Chinese control, and Chinese control of this tract would present a further obstacle to Russian advance in Central Asia. Though no official boundary had ever been negotiated, China believed that this had been the accepted boundary. This became the Macartney-MacDonald Line.

In 1908, the British took the Macdonald line to be the boundary, but in 1911, the Xinhai Revolution resulted in the collapse of central power in China, and by the end of WW1, the British officially used the Johnson Line. However they took no steps to establish outposts or assert actual control on the ground. In 1927, the line was adjusted again as the government of British India abandoned the Johnson line in favour of a line along the Karakoram range further south.

Upon independence in 1947, the government of India used the Johnson Line as the basis for its official boundary in the west, which included the Aksai Chin. From the Karakoram Pass, the Indian claim line extends northeast of the Karakoram mountains through the salt flats of the Aksai Chin, to set a boundary at the Kun Lun mountains and incorporating part of the Karakash River and the Yarkand River watersheds. From there, it runs east along the Kunlun mountains, before turning southwest through the Aksai Chin salt flats, through the Karakoram mountains, and then to PanggongLake.

13 October 1962, China and Pakistan began negotiations over the boundary west of the Karakoram Pass. And in 1963, the two countries settled their boundaries largely on the basis of the Macartney-MacDonald Line, which left the Trans Karakoram Tract in China, although the agreement provided for renegotiation in the event of a settlement of the Kashmire dispute. India did not recognise that Pakistan and China have a common border and claimed the tract as part of the domains of the pre-1947 state of Kashmir and Jammu.

Gilgit – Baltistan - Kargil.

Ali Sher Khan, ruler of Skardu in the late 16th and early 17th centuries conquered most of the principalities of Purig and introduced Balti culture in the Kargil district. In 1840, Zorawar Singh invaded Baltistan, captured the Raja of Skardu and annexed his country into the Sikh empire. Baltistan, Purig, Zanskar and present-day Leh district were put under a single administrative unit.

In 1947 Kargil was part of the district of Ladakh, a sparsely populated region with diverse linguistic, ethnic and religious groups, living in isolated valleys separated by some of the world's highest mountains. The Ladakh district had three tehsils (sub-districts), named after the cities of their headquarters: Leh, Skardu and Kargil. The district headquarters shifted between the three locations each year.

On 1 November 1947, a rebellion organized by commander Major William Brown of the Gilgit Scouts, overthrew Ghansara Singh, Administrator of the region on behalf of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir

The Kasmir War of1948 ended with a ceasefire line that divided the Ladakh district, putting the Kargil and Leh tehsils on the Indian side and the Skardu tehsil on the Pakistan side.

The two Indian tehsils were soon promoted to districts and Ladakh was named a Division, in the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir. Pakistan renamed the Skardu tehsil Baltistan and divided it into further districts.


Hunza.

Hunza was an independent Princaplity for centuries. It was ruled by the Mirs of Hunza who took the title of Thum. However, Hunza Mirs acknowledged China as suzerain since 1761.

In 1847 then Mir of Hunza supported China in suppressing a rebellion in Yarkand following which China granted Mir Ghazanfar Khan of Hunza a jabir ( Land Grant) in Yarkand and paid the Mir an annual subsidy. In the late 19th century Hunza became embroiled in the rivalry between Britain and Russia for control of the northern approaches to India.

In 1888 the Russian Captain B. Grombchevsky visited Hunza, and the following year the British Captain F. Youndhusband visited Hunza to express British displeasure.

Younghusband formed a low opinion of the then ruler, Safdar Ali, describing him as "a cur at heart and unworthy of ruling so fine a race as the people of Hunza". In 1891 the British mounted the Hunza-Nagar campaign and gained control of Hunza and the neighbouring valley of Nagar with the last fully independent ruler, Mir Safdar Ali Khan escaping to China.

His younger brother Mir Mohammed Nazim Khan was installed by the British as Mir in September 1892 and Hunza became a princely state in a subsidiary alliance with the British India; a status it retained until 1947. However, when the war erupted between Pakistan and India over their dispute in Kashmir, the Mir of Hunza acceded to Pakistan.


Nagar.

Nagar, founded in the fourteenth century, was an autonomous was a princely state, but had been a vassal of the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir since 1868, despite never being directly ruled by Kashmir. The rulers of Nagar were, sending annual tributes to the Kashmir Durbar until 1947.

British had gained control of the Nagar state following the Hunza- Nagar Campaign (1889-1893). In November 1947, Nagar acceded to Pakistan, which became responsible for its external affairs and defense, while Nagar maintained internal self-government.

In 1968, Syed Yahya Shah, the first educated politician of the valley, demanded civil rights from the Mir of Nagar. In 1974, ZA Bhutto forced the Mir of Nagar to abdicate. The area was then merged with the Northern Areas.

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## WAJsal

*Flying over the Himalayas: RAF Flight to Gilgit in November 1934*




During the 1930s, the RAF conducted a number of flights to Gilgit. These flights served political purposes through projecting British power into this remote region of her Empire, propaganda purposes from the resulting prestige of conducting daring flights of exploration, and allowed the exploration of prospects for civil aviation.

A flight during November 1934 is particularly richly illustrated by a file from the India Office Political and Secret Department records. In addition to a detailed written report, the file also contains forty-five aerial photographic prints.

The outward bound flight, comprising five Hawker Harts, departed from Risalpur at 8:05am on 5 November 1934. The flight flew via Daggar, Kandar, and Patan following the Indus Valley. It arrived at Gilgit at 10:10am. The flight proceeded smoothly, but unfortunately poor visibility limited the use of the camera; only eight exposures were taken.





The aircrew remained at Gilgit for three day camping at the edge of the landing ground. A programme by the local resident which included a chikor shoot, polo, and a display of dancing by men of the Gilgit Scouts kept them entertained. During their stay they undertook demonstration and reconnaissance flights; sadly due to a fuel leak in the photographic aircraft no photographs were taken.

The flight departed Gilgit on 8 November at 10:30am. The fuel leak in the photographic aircraft could not be rectified in time due to the amount of dust at the aerodrome, so only four aircraft made the return flight. Luckily the camera was transferred to another aircraft and a large number of exposures were taken during the return trip. 
During the return flight a number of aerial photographs were taken of Gilgit town and the surrounding country.






The flight proceeded down the Indus Valley and obtained pictures of a number of very high peaks including Rakaposhi, Haramosh, and Nanga Parbat. The flight then descended, circled over Chilas, then proceeded along the Darel Valley as far as Reshmal [?]. It then returned back along the Indus Valley as far as Shiwai at which point a return course was set for Risalpur.

The flight returned to Risalpur at 1:20pm. The photographic aircraft returned with a relief plane the following day.

The photographs, along with the rest of this file’s content, are available to view free of charge on the Qatar National Library’s online portal.

Robert Astin
Content Specialist, Archivist British Library / Qatar Foundation Partnership

Further reading:
British Library, Coll 5/39 ‘Flights of RAF aeroplanes to Gilgit; flights of foreign aircraft over Gilgit and Chitral’ IOR/L/PS/12/1993
http://pamirtimes.net/2017/07/02/flying-over-the-himalayas-raf-flight-to-gilgit-in-november-1934/
@Joe Shearer

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## Bagee

niaz said:


> The princely state of Jammu & Kashmir, in addition to the Kashmir valley comprised of 4 or 5 ethnical different regions.
> 
> · Jammu province: Districts of Jammu, Jasrota (Kathua), Udhampur, Reasi and Mirpur.
> 
> · Kashmir province: Districts of Kashmir South (Anantnag), Kashmir North (Baramulla) and Muzaffarabad.
> 
> · Frontier districts: Wazarats of Ladakh and Gilgit.
> 
> · Internal jagirs: Poonch, Bhaderwah and Chenani.
> 
> · Frontier illaqas: Punial, Ishkoman, Yasin, Kuh-Ghizer, Hunza, Nagar, Chilas.
> 
> I shall attempt to give the back ground as to how & when these areas because part of the State of Jammu & Kashmir according to my research. Since we have the good fortune of having a few members from the Northern Areas; I would welcome any errors in my facts or the time line.
> 
> Jammu.
> 
> The Dogra state of Jammu was established by Dhruv Dev during the last years of the Mughal Empire. Raja Gulab Singh, a direct descendant, was 16 years old in 1808, when Ranjit Singh conquered Jammu. Gulab Singh along with his brothers Dhyan Singh and Suchet Singh joined the Sikh army. Gulab Singh soon distinguished himself in battles, and after the conquest of Kishtwar (1821) and the subjugation of Rajpuri; Gulab Singh was made a hereditary Raja of Jammu in 1822.
> 
> Ladakh.
> 
> The conquest of Kishtwar meant that Ranjeet Singh controlled the two roads which led into Ladakh. Even though their ruler paid tribute to the Kashmir, Ladakh has been an independent kingdom for a very long time. After Ahmed Shah Abdali captured Kashmir, Ladakhi was also subjugated, however after Kashmir’s freedom from Afghan rule, Ladakh became independent again.
> 
> Despite the mountains and glaciers barring the way, Dogra troops under General Zorawar Singh conquered the whole of Ladakh in in early 1834 and Ladkah came under the Sikh rule. In 1841, Chinese forces defeated the Sikh army and besieged Leh. After being checked by the Sikh forces, in September 1842, the Chinese and the Sikhs signed a treaty which stipulated no transgressions or interference in the other country's frontiers. The British defeat ofthe Sikhs in 1846 resulted in transfer of sovereignty over Ladakh to the British,
> 
> When Kashmir was sold to Gulab Singh of Jammu in 1846. Ladakh was turned over to Gulab Singh as well.
> 
> 
> Aksai Chin.
> 
> 
> One of the earliest treaties regarding the boundaries in the western sector was signed in 1842. British commissioners attempted to meet with Chinese officials to discuss the border they now shared. The boundaries beyond the extremities of Aksai Chin near Panggong Lake and near the Karakoram Pass were well-defined, but the Aksai Chin area in between lay undefined. This was referred to as Johnson Line.
> 
> In 1897 a British military officer, Sir John Ardagh, proposed a boundary line along the crest of the Kun Lun mountains north of the Yarkand River. At the time Britain was concerned at the danger of Russian expansion as China weakened, and Ardagh argued that his line was more defensible. The Ardagh line was effectively a modification of the Johnson line, and became known as the "Johnson-Ardagh Line".
> 
> In 1893, a map of the boundary proposed by China to George Macartney, the British Conusul-general at Kashgar. This boundary placed the Lingzi Tang plains, which are south of the Laktsang range, in India, and Aksai Chin proper, which is north of the Laktsang range, in China. Macartney agreed with the proposal and forwarded it to the British Indian government.
> 
> The Karakoram Mountains formed a natural boundary, which would set the British borders up to the Indus River watershed while leaving the Tarim River watershed in Chinese control, and Chinese control of this tract would present a further obstacle to Russian advance in Central Asia. Though no official boundary had ever been negotiated, China believed that this had been the accepted boundary. This became the Macartney-MacDonald Line.
> 
> In 1908, the British took the Macdonald line to be the boundary, but in 1911, the Xinhai Revolution resulted in the collapse of central power in China, and by the end of WW1, the British officially used the Johnson Line. However they took no steps to establish outposts or assert actual control on the ground. In 1927, the line was adjusted again as the government of British India abandoned the Johnson line in favour of a line along the Karakoram range further south.
> 
> Upon independence in 1947, the government of India used the Johnson Line as the basis for its official boundary in the west, which included the Aksai Chin. From the Karakoram Pass, the Indian claim line extends northeast of the Karakoram mountains through the salt flats of the Aksai Chin, to set a boundary at the Kun Lun mountains and incorporating part of the Karakash River and the Yarkand River watersheds. From there, it runs east along the Kunlun mountains, before turning southwest through the Aksai Chin salt flats, through the Karakoram mountains, and then to PanggongLake.
> 
> 13 October 1962, China and Pakistan began negotiations over the boundary west of the Karakoram Pass. And in 1963, the two countries settled their boundaries largely on the basis of the Macartney-MacDonald Line, which left the Trans Karakoram Tract in China, although the agreement provided for renegotiation in the event of a settlement of the Kashmire dispute. India did not recognise that Pakistan and China have a common border and claimed the tract as part of the domains of the pre-1947 state of Kashmir and Jammu.
> 
> Gilgit – Baltistan - Kargil.
> 
> Ali Sher Khan, ruler of Skardu in the late 16th and early 17th centuries conquered most of the principalities of Purig and introduced Balti culture in the Kargil district. In 1840, Zorawar Singh invaded Baltistan, captured the Raja of Skardu and annexed his country into the Sikh empire. Baltistan, Purig, Zanskar and present-day Leh district were put under a single administrative unit.
> 
> In 1947 Kargil was part of the district of Ladakh, a sparsely populated region with diverse linguistic, ethnic and religious groups, living in isolated valleys separated by some of the world's highest mountains. The Ladakh district had three tehsils (sub-districts), named after the cities of their headquarters: Leh, Skardu and Kargil. The district headquarters shifted between the three locations each year.
> 
> On 1 November 1947, a rebellion organized by commander Major William Brown of the Gilgit Scouts, overthrew Ghansara Singh, Administrator of the region on behalf of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir
> 
> The Kasmir War of1948 ended with a ceasefire line that divided the Ladakh district, putting the Kargil and Leh tehsils on the Indian side and the Skardu tehsil on the Pakistan side.
> 
> The two Indian tehsils were soon promoted to districts and Ladakh was named a Division, in the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir. Pakistan renamed the Skardu tehsil Baltistan and divided it into further districts.
> 
> 
> Hunza.
> 
> Hunza was an independent Princaplity for centuries. It was ruled by the Mirs of Hunza who took the title of Thum. However, Hunza Mirs acknowledged China as suzerain since 1761.
> 
> In 1847 then Mir of Hunza supported China in suppressing a rebellion in Yarkand following which China granted Mir Ghazanfar Khan of Hunza a jabir ( Land Grant) in Yarkand and paid the Mir an annual subsidy. In the late 19th century Hunza became embroiled in the rivalry between Britain and Russia for control of the northern approaches to India.
> 
> In 1888 the Russian Captain B. Grombchevsky visited Hunza, and the following year the British Captain F. Youndhusband visited Hunza to express British displeasure.
> 
> Younghusband formed a low opinion of the then ruler, Safdar Ali, describing him as "a cur at heart and unworthy of ruling so fine a race as the people of Hunza". In 1891 the British mounted the Hunza-Nagar campaign and gained control of Hunza and the neighbouring valley of Nagar with the last fully independent ruler, Mir Safdar Ali Khan escaping to China.
> 
> His younger brother Mir Mohammed Nazim Khan was installed by the British as Mir in September 1892 and Hunza became a princely state in a subsidiary alliance with the British India; a status it retained until 1947. However, when the war erupted between Pakistan and India over their dispute in Kashmir, the Mir of Hunza acceded to Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Nagar.
> 
> Nagar, founded in the fourteenth century, was an autonomous was a princely state, but had been a vassal of the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir since 1868, despite never being directly ruled by Kashmir. The rulers of Nagar were, sending annual tributes to the Kashmir Durbar until 1947.
> 
> British had gained control of the Nagar state following the Hunza- Nagar Campaign (1889-1893). In November 1947, Nagar acceded to Pakistan, which became responsible for its external affairs and defense, while Nagar maintained internal self-government.
> 
> In 1968, Syed Yahya Shah, the first educated politician of the valley, demanded civil rights from the Mir of Nagar. In 1974, ZA Bhutto forced the Mir of Nagar to abdicate. The area was then merged with the Northern Areas.



On part of Ladakh conquest i beg to differe what you have written Zorvark singh who was termed as the Neoplan of india had to fight with Budhists and defeated them completely after that during his campains furhter inside the Tibet region he fought near chisul with the Budhist army of Tibet mot china as their was no china at that time Hunza and Blatistan was also par of jis campains me being from the same area have heard many folk lores about Gen. Zoravar Singh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorawar_Singh_Kahluria


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## Joe Shearer

Bagee said:


> On part of Ladakh conquest i beg to differe what you have written Zorvark singh who was termed as the Neoplan of india had to fight with Budhists and defeated them completely after that during his campains furhter inside the Tibet region he fought near chisul with the Budhist army of Tibet mot china as their was no china at that time Hunza and Blatistan was also par of jis campains me being from the same area have heard many folk lores about Gen. Zoravar Singh
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorawar_Singh_Kahluria




Dear Lord.


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## Talwar e Pakistan

subcontinent01 said:


> Do people in Azad Kashmir self identify as Kashmiris? I mean I know the whole J&K state is basically 5 areas - Jammu(Dogri people), AK(Pothohari? Pahari?), Gilgit-Baltistan, Kashmir and Ladakh. Given there are very few native kashmiris on that side of border, isn't there any movement or atleast some recognition of the fact by natives that it isn't a Kashmir proper region?


What the hell are you yapping about?

Dogri people are not natives, they are foreigners that migrated throughout the 1800s-1900s and conducted ethnic cleansing in the region for countless decades. In 1947 alone, over 300,000 Muslims from Jammu and Kashmir were forced into Pakistan by the Dogra regime while around 50,000-100,000 were exterminated. 

People of Gilgit Baltistan do not consider themselves as Kashmiris and don't even want to associate themselves as being a part of the Kashmir dispute. They have been fighting for a long time for a full merger into Pakistan and being recognized as a province.

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## django

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> People of Gilgit Baltistan do not consider themselves as Kashmiris and don't even want to associate themselves as being a part of the Kashmir dispute. They have been fighting for a long time for a full merger into Pakistan and being recognized as a province.


Absolutely and they go at great lengths to distinguish themselves from Kashmir, I say give them their recognition.Kudos


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## ghazi52

The Early History Of Gilgit (The North Most Territory In Pakistan) Is Thousands Of Years Ago. According To Historians, Human Presence Dates Back To Some 2000 BC In Gilgit-Baltistan Region.

Lockhart And Woodthorpe Were British Army Officers And Explorers Who Went On A Mission To Explore Gilgit-Baltistan And Chitral Region, The Heart Of Himalayas And Mountains.

Source - The Gilgit Mission, 1885-1886.
Author - Colonel Sir W.S.A Lockhart, K.C.B, C.S.I, And Colonel R.G Woodthrope, C.B.
Imprint - London, Printed By Eyre And Spottiswood, Printer's To The Queen's Most Excellent Majesty, 1889.


Kafir Woman, Circa 1885.


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## halupridol

Nice thread.
Only one query- what is the time frame for distinguishing natives from non natives?
18th century,,,19th century,,,or 20th century???? Is thr any specific date(like we do) 
What about stuff before tht(do they get a clean slate?)


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## ghazi52

The people of GB liberated their land without any external help and joined Pakistan unconditionally. Salute to bravery and leadership of officers and men who led the Liberation across the region . May Allah bless their souls.

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## ghazi52

Polo Players At Gilgit, Circa 1885.









The Early History Of Gilgit ( GB ) Is Thousands Of Years Ago. 

According To Historians, Human Presence Dates Back To Some 2000 BC In Gilgit-Baltistan Region. Lockhart And Woodthorpe Were British Army Officers And Explorers Who Went On A Mission To Explore Gilgit-Baltistan And Chitral Region, The Heart Of Himalayas And Mountains.
Source - The Gilgit Mission, 1885-1886.


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## ghazi52

Gilgit Baltistan Scouts identify themselves with Gilgit Scouts which were raised in 1889. This force played a key role in fighting the war of liberation against Dogra Indian Forces in 1947-1948 and won independence for the people of Northern Areas (now Gilgit Baltistan).


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## ghazi52

This is a rare picture of the earliest Brushaski speaking settlers of Misgar, probably from Circa 1900 - 1910. Misgar is believed to be part of the ancient Silk route.

The Brushaski speaking population migrated from central Hunza to Misgar upper Hunza, on the orders of the Mir of Hunza about 170 years ago. Before that this region was inhabited a bone of contention between Kirghiz and Wakhi tribesmen. After settling in Misgar the emigrants practiced subsistence agriculture and also kept a check on intruders on the borders, hence defining the Mir’s territorial limits. 

Later in 1891, Mir Safder Ali Khan of Hunza with his party fled to Chinese territory via Misgar as he could not defend Hunza against the British, in the war of 1891.

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## ghazi52

A group photograph of the Kalash people, (Wearers of Black) from the Hindukush mountains of Chitral.
Date: 1919

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## ghazi52




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## ghazi52

A trooper of the Azad Kashmir Regular Force on guard, during the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation War.

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## ghazi52

Captain Hussain Khan of Kalakot Fakhr-e-Kashmir IDSM OBI sector commander of the nascent Azad troops in Poonch, he fell in action during a grim battle with the retreating Dogra State Forces at Shaheed Gala - 9 miles northeast of Rawalakot, on 11ᵗʰ November, 1947. 

on his right, Subedar Baru Khan (posthumous Lieutenant) Mujahid-e-Hydri 36 AK 
14ᵗʰ October 1947 Sehnsa Valley, Kotli 

on his left, Captain Sher Khan Fakhr-e-Kashmir Sher-e-Jang CO 5 AK 
9ᵗʰ July 1948 Chajja Hill, Poonch 

Sher Khan made the ultimate sacrifice at the age of 65.

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## ghazi52

2 armoured cars belonging to the 7th Light Cavalry of India, seized by PAVO 11th Cavalry of Pakistan, in the Kashmir War. 11C is the only PA armoured regiment to have fought in all three wars.

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## ghazi52

Major William Alexander Brown, the liberator of Gilgit Agency. 

Commander of Gilgit Scouts, he deposed Brigadier Ghansara Singh, the Maharaja's Governor of Gilgit on 1st November 1947, in a coup d'etat under the codename 'Datta Khel'. 

He remained Scouts Commandant till Jan '48.


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## ghazi52

Hawk Presented To Colonel Lockhart By Aman-ul-Mulk, Circa 1885.

Aman ul-Mulk (1 January 1821 - 30 August 1892) Was The Mehtar Of Chitral, Ghizer, Yasen And Ishkoman And Suzerain Of Kafiristan. He Ruled The State Of Chitral From 1857 To 1892. His Rule Saw Chitral Reach Its Territorial Peak, Extending From Ishkamun In Gilgit Agency To Asmar In Afghanistan.

The Early History Of Gilgit (The North Most Territory In Pakistan) Is Thousands Of Years Ago. According To Historians, Human Presence Dates Back To Some 2000 BC In Gilgit-Baltistan Region.

Lockhart And Woodthorpe Were British Army Officers And Explorers Who Went On A Mission To Explore Gilgit-Baltistan And Chitral Region, The Heart Of Himalayas And Mountains.

Source - The Gilgit Mission, 1885-1886.
Author - Colonel Sir W.S.A Lockhart, K.C.B, C.S.I, And Colonel R.G Woodthrope, C.B.
Imprint - London, Printed By Eyre And Spottiswood, Printer's To The Queen's Most Excellent Majesty, 1889.

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## ghazi52

Memorial for the martyrs from Baltistan during the 1947-48 War, at Skardu.

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## ghazi52

Never forget, 
Captain Hussain Khan of Kalakot Fakhr-e-Kashmir IDSM OBI sector commander of the nascent Azad troops in Poonch, 









He fell in action during a grim battle with the retreating Dogra State Forces at Shaheed Gala - 9 miles northeast of Rawalakot, on 11ᵗʰ November, 1947.

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## ghazi52

Group Of Boys At Reshun, 1885 (c).






The Early History Of Gilgit (The North Most Territory In Pakistan) Is Thousands Of Years Ago. According To Historians, Human Presence Dates Back To Some 2000 BC In Gilgit-Baltistan Region. Lockhart And Woodthorpe Were British Army Officers And Explorers Who Went On A Mission To Explore Gilgit-Baltistan And Chitral Region, The Heart Of Himalayas And Mountains.

Source - The Gilgit Mission, 1885-1886.

Author - Colonel Sir W.S.A Lockhart, K.C.B, C.S.I, And Colonel R.G Woodthrope, C.B.

Publisher - London, Printed By Eyre And Spottiswood, Printer's To The Queen's Most Excellent Majesty, 1889.
.

Balti Coolies, 1885 (c).


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## ghazi52

Militiamen from the Princely State of Swat, who fought alongside troops of the 5ᵗʰ Bagh Bn, aka the 33ʳᵈ AKRF.






In the summer of 1948, the unit was in the Jhelum Valley, taking part in desperate defensive battles - The Indian Summer Offensive was stopped dead in it's tracks.


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## ghazi52

Baltit, Hunza, Gilgit-Baltistan, 1961 (c).






The Mir Muhammad Jamal Khan Ruler Of The Remote State Of Hunza In The Himalayas, Wears Ceremonial Robes After A Religious Gathering. He Sits In A Jeep, One Of The Two Wheeled Vehicles In The Tiny State.

The Mir's Family Has Held The Supreme Power In Hunza For More Than 600 Years.


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## ghazi52

Cuirassier

@leftofthepincer

Colonel Mirza Hassan Khan Fakhr-e-Kashmir (1947-48) Military Cross (WW2) Burma Star commissioned in the JAK State Forces, he was a principal figure in Major Brown's coup d'etat of November 1947 at Gilgit - decorated with the HJ-equivalent for his role in the liberation war.






He passed out from Dehradun in 1938. awarded the MC for gallantry in combat at Meiktila, on the Burma Front - his 'C' Company would repulse several waves of Imperial Japanese Army assaults. pictured during the attack at Kennedy Peak (2704 meters); wearing the hat.








Hassan would command the Tiger Force of 'Colonel Pasha' during the Gilgit-Baltistan Liberation War - operating along the Bunji-Bandipora axis. pictured at the burma front with his bull terrier, circa 1944.













triumphant after ousting the Jamwals from Gilgit.


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## ghazi52

In a jointly coordinated effort Commandant Gilgit Scouts Major William Alexander Brown, Muslim officers of Dogra State Forces & Muslim Viceroy Commissioned Officers decided to rise in a liberation war against Dogra State Forces when Raja decided to join India instead of Pakistan.













10:38 AM · Aug 5, 2021·


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## ghazi52

In 1947-48 Kashmir war, Bhimbar, Baghsar & Mirpur were captured by Pakistan Army, eliminating Indian threat to Jhelum & Mangla Headworks.

In this operation 11 Cavalry's armoured cars conducted a bold action under Captain Nawaz, forcing Dogra soldiers to flee from the battlefield.


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## ghazi52

.,.,
Brigadier Aslam Khan Afridi 'Colonel Pasha' Military Cross Hilal-e-Jurat Fakhr-e-Kashmir Commissioned in the State Army, 







He won an MC at the Burma Front, and took command of the Scouts from Major Brown in early 1948. 
Played an instrumental role in the liberation of Baltistan.







'Colonel Pasha' at Minimarg.








Headed for Bandipora.






Officers and JCOs - with some interesting eyewear.

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