# Dubai Airshow 2011



## MJaa

*PAKISTANI SAAB-2000 ERIEYE AEW&C AT DUBAI AIR SHOW 2011.
*







The Saab-2000 Erieye AEW&C (airborne early warning and control aircraft) of the Pakistan Air Force at the Dubai Air Show 2011.


*Read more: Pakistani Saab-2000 Erieye AEW&C at Dubai Air Show 2011. ~ Pakistan Military Review*

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## DANGER-ZONE

While reading the serial, i can assure you that this one is the third Erieye of PAF that was not yet received. 
We already have two 10040 & 10049 and this serial have something like 25 or 45 in last. 

*Welcome the third bird guys*

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## MJaa

danger-zone said:


> While reading the serial, i can assure you that this one is the third Erieye of PAF that was not yet received.
> We already have two 10040 & 10049 and this serial have something like 25 or 45 in last.
> 
> *Welcome the third bird guys*



Goood Eye on the Erieye


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## IceCold

What exactly is this doing in Dubai airshow? ARE the sweedes displaying it or the PAF?


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## acetophenol

whats the point in displaying an awac that pakistan has brought from another nation in an air show?
is this awac already delivered?i see no paf flag on its tail.
someone please explain.


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## Broccoli

Here is very good close-up pics of it's self-protection systems etc. 
A Walk (in pictures) Around Pakistan's AEW Platform

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## MJaa

acetophenol said:


> whats the point in displaying an awac that pakistan has brought from another nation in an air show?
> is this awac already delivered?i see no paf flag on its tail.
> someone please explain.



It is being displayed as Saab product as Saab is offering to sell Saab-2000 AEW&C to the United Arab Emirates Air Force -after they won the contract for 2 interim airborne early warning and control aircraft (Saab-340 AEW&C )

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## krash

ANTIBODY said:


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This man is brilliant.

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## krash

ANTIBODY said:


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http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...n-awacs-aew-cs-aircrafts-145.html#post2277653

This man is brilliant.

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## Imran Khan

acetophenol said:


> whats the point in displaying an awac that pakistan has brought from another nation in an air show?
> is this awac already delivered?i see no paf flag on its tail.
> someone please explain.



aqaal use kerni nhi hai kabhi hahahaha

why was UAE block-60 in indian air show? UAE is not going to sale them hahahhah .its god damn company of product who hire them for few days

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## abaseen99

JF-17 Dubai Air Show Participation Officially Confirmed.
Posted on October 25, 2011 by Admin
JF-17 will be at Dubai Airshow. CATIC President Za Zhipang had suggested this in June during the Paris Airshow. Official list of participants was published on Dubai Airshow website. 



The list:

Company	Aircraft
328 Support Services	Donier 328-300SN 3209
Abu Dhabi Aviation	AW 139
Adcom Systems	Shaheen B
Adcom Systems	Yabhon R
Adcom Systems	Yabhon  HMD
Adcom Systems	Yabhon  N
Adcom Systems	Yabhon  GRN
Adcom Systems	Yabhon  GRN 2
Airbus/Comlux	ACJ320-214
Alenia/Finnmeccanica	C-27J Spartan
Alenia/Finnmeccanica	M346 T346A
Alenia/Finnmeccanica	M346 T346A
Bell Helictoper/Textron	Bell Helicopter 407AH
Bell Helictoper/Textron	Bell Helicopter MV-22 Tiltrotor Osprey
Bell Helictoper/Textron	Bell Helicopter 429
Boeing	B737-7ES AEW&C (Turkish AF)
Boeing	AH-64 Apache Longbow Helicopter
Boeing	B787-8
Cessna Aircraft Company	Citation X
Cessna Aircraft Company	Citation CJ4
Cessna Aircraft Company	Citation Sovereign
Cessna/Wallan Aviation	Citation X
Dassault Aviation	Falcon 2000LX
Dassault Aviation	Falcon 7X
Diamond	D40
Diamond	D-Jet mock up
Diamond/Horizon	D42 NG
Embraer s/a	EMB-145
Empire Aviation Group	Hawker 850XP
Empire Aviation Group	Legacy 600 EMB-135BJ
Eurocopter/EADS	AS 350B
Executive Aircraft Service	Hawker 800XP
Hawker Beechcraft	Beechcraft T-6C
Hawker Beechcraft	Beechcraft Premier 1A
Hawker Beechcraft	Kingair 250
Hawker Beechcraft	Kingair 350
Hawker Beechcraft	Kingair 350ER
Hawker Beechcraft	Kingair 350i
Hawker Beechcraft	Hawker 900XP
Hawker Beechcraft	Hawker 4000
L-3 Communications	BE 350 King Air
Midex Airlines	B747-228F
Midex Airlines	A300B4-203F
MW Airplane Corporation BV	Dassault Falcon, 2000LX EASy
MW Airplane Corporation BV	Dassault Falcon, 2000LX EASy
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex	Karakuram-8
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex	Karakuram-8
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex	Super Mushshak
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex	Super Mushshak
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex	JF-17 Thunder
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex	JF-17 Thunder
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex	JF-17 Thunder
Pilatus	PC 12
Pilatus	PC 21
Pilatus	PC 21
Qatar Airways	B777-200
Qatar Airways	Bombardier Global 5000
Rafale	Rafale
Rafale	Rafale
Rafale	Rafale
Royal Jet/ Abu Dhabi Aviation	BBJ/B737-700
Safat	Safat 02 light helicopter (AK1-3)
Safat	Safat 03 light aircraft
Vulcanair SPA	AP68TP-600 A-viator
Vulcanair SPA	SF600F

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## acetophenol

is it "super mushak" or "super mashak"?


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## acetophenol

MJaa said:


> It is being displayed as Saab product as Saab is offering to sell Saab-2000 AEW&C to the United Arab Emirates Air Force -after they won the contract for 2 interim airborne early warning and control aircraft (Saab-340 AEW&C )



so it isn't delivered?

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Imran Khan said:


> aqaal use kerni nhi hai kabhi hahahaha
> 
> why was UAE block-60 in indian air show? UAE is not going to sale them hahahhah .its god damn company of product who hire them for few days



don't laugh at me imran bhai!
its the responsibility of grown ups to clear the doubts of the small ones!

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## abaseen99

yes friend u r right this is mushak spel mistak


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## Bratva

Saab awacs is also there


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## acetophenol

abaseen99 said:


> yes friend u r right this is mushak spel mistak



its ok yaar!typos always happens!

---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------




mafiya said:


> Saab awacs is also there



i think the awacs were there as a product of saab and not as a part of PAF.


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## Peregrine

acetophenol said:


> i think the awacs were there as a product of saab and not as a part of PAF.


 
It is there to represent SAAB or not. It belongs to PAF, bearing Pakistan's flag....... End of story.

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## abaseen99

jf 17 super mushak and k8 is the product of pakistan aeronautical complex and saab is a swedish


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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99




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## Manticore

Aircraft List | Dubai Airshow 2011

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## abaseen99

PAKISTAN GEARS UP FOR DUBAI AIRSHOW 2011 WITH 7 AIRCRARFTS

Pakistan Air Force is participating with seven aircrafts at the Dubai Airshow 2011. Organisers of the Dubai Air Show 2011 has said that pp to 1,000 exhibitors from 50 different countries will participate in air show.

Thee JF-17 Thunder fighter jets of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will take part in this year's Dubai Air Show. One Jf-17 Thunder will perform aerobatic manoeuvres, second will be ready as replacement if first JF-17 suffers from some problem, while third will be used as for the static display at the air show. 


This will be the first appearance of the JF-17 Thunderby at the Middle Eastern airshow. The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) has jointly developed the FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder as an affordable forth generation aircraft. 

Pakistan has made considerable investment in the PAC to support the full-spectrum airframe & major avinoics production capability. 


Pakistani JF-17 project management team headed is by Air Vice Marshal Mohammed Arif. The Air Vice Marshal Mohammed Arif has said "We have learnt how to integrate different avionics and weapon systems on to the JF-17." This will allow Pakistan and China to customize the aircraft to effectively meet the requirements of the customer.

Pakistan and China have already created a joint marketing organisation to promote the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet to the international customers.


Two K-8 Karakuram intermediate jet trainer and MFI-395 Super Mushshak basic trainer aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force will also take part in the airshow. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has successfully exported the MFI-395 Super Mushshak to many Middle Eastern countries.


This year Dubai Airshow will run from 13 to 17 November 2011 at Airport Expo.Pakistan Gears Up For Dubai Airshow 2011 With 7 Aircrarfts ~ Pakistan Military Review


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## krash

abaseen99 said:


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The T-37s are going again?


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## Bratva

acetophenol said:


> its ok yaar!typos always happens!
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------
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> *i think the awacs were there as a product of saab and not as a part of PAF*.



If it's not part of PAF then what's PAkistani Jhanda doing on it? May be it's a ISI conspiracy to paint a Sweden aircarft as it's own?


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## razgriz19

abaseen99 said:


>



this is something new for me!


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## acetophenol

mafiya said:


> If it's not part of PAF then what's PAkistani Jhanda doing on it? May be it's a ISI conspiracy to paint a Sweden aircarft as it's own?



cool down bro!
i just asked whether PAF has allowed saab to display its awac in the air show!
i didn't mean any harm!


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## Mosamania

UAE is going to display their UAVs apparently their Yebhoon family.


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## abaseen99




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## Shahzad Sultan

Any flight schedule of JF-17 in Dubai Show


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## houshanghai

^^ 
unicorn bro
You post first...

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## unicorn

Oh I was about to post that.
Houshanghai you are super fast bro...











*JF-17 during validation flight at the Dubai air show*

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## houshanghai

*PAF JFT arrived in DuBai *

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## S-A-B-E-R->

houshanghai said:


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COOOOOL phanter sqd wow they should do the same with spyder and griffin sqd insegnias.

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## PakShaheen79

Can someone confirm me the Squad. number of Black Panthers? 

Thanks in advance.


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## nomi007

China's MA600 at the Dubai Air Show












chinese also showing latest ma600

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## hatf IX

houshanghai said:


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thunder is killing me . . .. . .

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## Windjammer

Check out the serial number.....one of the latest toys produced this year.

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## nomi007

please any 1 tell about exact number of saab-2000 AWACS 
Wikipedia is saying we have 2


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## Shahzad Sultan

Waiting for some great videos and pics.


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## Areesh

PakShaheen79 said:


> Can someone confirm me the Squad. number of Black Panthers?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Squadron number 16.

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## houshanghai

*PAF JFT ground service*







*PAF JFT take off*
*JFT has just finished a superb performance*

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## ice_man

will JF-17 PERFORM AGAIN???


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## houshanghai

ice_man said:


> will JF-17 PERFORM AGAIN???



it is just a preliminary exercise.

Today,UAE's F16 BLK 60 was just behind PAF JFT.This infs from a special correspondent of chinese aviation news.

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## regular

What Pakistan's Eriye's are doing in Dubai..????....
anyways Excellent pics guyz....thnx a lot ....
Umm how about the F-16 block60 of UAE behind the JF17...looks like they can't compete our JF17'ns.....

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## hatf IX

did any one get any video. . . if yes . . . . . than please post it here . . . . .?


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## dilpakistani

i hope they pull up some new manuvers this time...


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## Saifullah Sani

*Pakistan Gears Up For Dubai Airshow 2011 With 7 Aircrafts*





Pakistan Air Force is participating with seven aircrafts at the Dubai Airshow 2011. Organisers of the Dubai Air Show 2011 has said that pp to 1,000 exhibitors from 50 different countries will participate in air show.

Thee JF-17 Thunder fighter jets of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will take part in this year's Dubai Air Show. One Jf-17 Thunder will perform aerobatic manoeuvres, second will be ready as replacement if first JF-17 suffers from some problem, while third will be used as for the static display at the air show. 




This will be the first appearance of the JF-17 Thunderby at the Middle Eastern airshow. The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) has jointly developed the FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder as an affordable forth generation aircraft. 

Pakistan has made considerable investment in the PAC to support the full-spectrum airframe & major avinoics production capability. 




Pakistani JF-17 project management team headed is by Air Vice Marshal Mohammed Arif. The Air Vice Marshal Mohammed Arif has said "We have learnt how to integrate different avionics and weapon systems on to the JF-17." This will allow Pakistan and China to customize the aircraft to effectively meet the requirements of the customer.

*Pakistan and China have already created a joint marketing organisation to promote the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet to the international customers.*




Two K-8 Karakuram intermediate jet trainer and MFI-395 Super Mushshak basic trainer aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force will also take part in the airshow. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has successfully exported the MFI-395 Super Mushshak to many Middle Eastern countries.




Pakistan Gears Up For Dubai Airshow 2011 With 7 Aircrarfts ~ Pakistan Military Review
This year Dubai Airshow will run from 13 to 17 November 2011 at Airport Expo.

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## Manticore



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## DANGER-ZONE

we're gone have enough picture of Erieye by the end of Duba Air Show.


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## Manticore



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## DANGER-ZONE

>



well if we compare the real one with the photoshoped panther - 





i think photoshoped design was much better and simple, resembles very much to panther then a wild cat. Face of cat isnt very good or not matching with body on 11-130

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## houshanghai



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## Tomahawk

Today i happened to see the traing fly pass of some of the planes; training and fighter. It was simply a great experience.


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## Tomahawk

Here is an amature video from my mobile of today's training acrobatic fly pass.

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## Windjammer

Sorry guys, my mistake.....the JF-17 is not in Dubai but on finals to it's home base Peshawar.

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## Dazzler

watch out for a possible sales announcement folks

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## VelocuR

JF-17 during validation flights in Dubai.

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## Tempest II

Can we please have close up photos of the information boards. Please, please, this is important. Thanks for all the photos so far and those to come.

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## razgriz19

nabil_05 said:


> watch out for a possible sales announcement folks



i might get a heart attack......if that happens!
=D

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## regular

Looks like JF17'ns are doing some great stunts there thats why we getting so much coverage for them.....

---------- Post added at 10:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------




razgriz19 said:


> i might get a heart attack......if that happens!
> =D


Take it easy bro! take it easy ! its just the beginning of the show .......


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## Najam Khan

Nice photos;-)
Its good to see PAF sending Thunders from second operational squadron...sends a good message to the world. Although large tail marking looks attractive but starting a new custom of 'fuel tank marking' isn't looking good...the beauty of the aircraft is lost in them.

Thunders practiced at Kamra at over 2000ft..most probably because of flt safety limitations at Minhas. I hope thunder riders put on a breath taking show at Dubai just like Zhuhai and Izmir.

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## razgriz19

i hope they put smoke winders on thunder this time!


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## Areesh

nabil_05 said:


> watch out for a possible sales announcement folks



Will it be Egypt?


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## DANGER-ZONE

^ its gona be the same. take my words


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## Cool_Soldier

This time, web media is picking up good coverage before starting Dubai Air Show.Lets see what our TV-Chanels will do.
However, JF-17 is right on its path of progress.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Hmmm...... I can't wait more for videos of JF17 in the show .


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## S-A-B-E-R->

guys in the pic is that SD10 A or B?
also LGBs r a new addition to show!!


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## unicorn

_*The daily flying display will take place from 14.15-17.15. 
*_






http://www.dubaiairshow.aero/sites/default/files/Dubai%20Airshow%20Flying%20Programme%2013.11.11.jpg


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## unicorn

First video

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## Manticore



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## Najam Khan

Something for desktop only

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## hatf IX

ANTIBODY said:


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k8 look awesome .....


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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------






paf aswell

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## krash

So its not just the Thunder and the Rafale being the fighter jets performing displays, as reported earlier. The Eagle and the Typhoon are also there.


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## unicorn

Air Chief briefing at DIAC conference


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## Luftwaffe




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## aimarraul

?????C802AK?????????_??_???

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## aimarraul



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## Shameel

acetophenol said:


> whats the point in displaying an awac that pakistan has brought from another nation in an air show?
> is this awac already delivered?i see no paf flag on its tail.
> someone please explain.



1. It's being displayed by SAAB, not PAF.

2. The Pakistan Flag is on the tail.


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## abaseen99

JF-17 Thunder: UAE Mission (2011) (Sorry but pics only for now) - YouTube

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## Abu Zolfiqar

I am glad that PAF is once again displaying it's might.

These are some fabulous pictures, I look forward to more as they come in. Great thread.

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## Al Bhatti

Cool_Soldier said:


> This time, web media is picking up good coverage before starting Dubai Air Show.Lets see what our TV-Chanels will do.
> However, JF-17 is right on its path of progress.


 
They are busy showing the so called "haj operation at the airports" and other silly news news like a goat ran away form a house on eid and the house members ran after it. Even some news are shown with songs and music. 

Let them come and see Dubai Airport where millions of passengers every months use it normally and this time haj flights + other normal flights + airshow and everything is running smooth. They did not declare any "operation" at the airport.

In Pakistani TV media there no professionalism at all . Be it state run channel or the many Private channels like GEO and ARY.

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## Shameel

I want to know the name of the idiot in the PAF who came up with the idea of putting artwork on the JF-17 tail and fuel tanks. It's crap and distracts from the aircraft. If I wanted to see cartoons, I'd buy a comic book.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Discovery Channel in USA has a seperate channel designated "TMC" (the military channel)

very professional and informative

we need something similar to that in Pakistan, and I think it would be a great startup. 




anywaz

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## Windjammer




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## PakShaheen79

F-15 and internal stalls.


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## PakShaheen79

Towards the end ... K-8 in action


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## Tempest II

Sweeet! Thank you very much. ... ... today 13th November 2011

Interesting to see what I believe has been shown in the past as the LT-3 is not labelled the LS-6!!!

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## Indian Army

Hawker Beechcraft T-6C






Bombardier Challenger 605






Saab 2000 AEW&C






Saab 2000 AEW&C






Northrop Grumman E-2C






Hawker Beechcraft King Air 350ER

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## ice_man

i am being optimistic i expect some african nations to place an RFI along with certain arab countries(this is very optimistic because they prefer to just buy high end gadgets like RAFALE or F-16s block 60s)! 

but anyhow any RFIs will be good and a reasonable start to the JF-17s future


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## Indian Army

ADCOMM Smart Eye UAV







RoyalJet 737






Falcon 7X 






FA-18 Super Hornet 






Eurocopter EC145






Dalia Air Embraer Lineage1000






Diamond DA-42 TwinStar Horizon






Cessna Citation X

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## Indian Army

AlFursan Display Team
















JF-17






Emirates A380
















Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

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## Indian Army

Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor






Alenia Aermacchi M346











USAF B-1






C27J Spartan and the Frecce Tricolori






Hongdu L-15






Patrouille de France

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## Indian Army

Debutante: MV-22 Osprey






During MV-22 Osprey deployment in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya

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## Indian Army

Qatar deployed Mirage 2000-5 fighters to help enforce the no-fly zone over Libya






@ Mubadala






Emirates plans to move to the new Dubai World Central airport in 2025











The E-2D Advanced Hawkeye ofers long-range AEW abilities






Rafale prices have forced the UAE to consider alternatives

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## Indian Army

Boeing is closing in on new AH-64D deals






Emirates profits jumped by 43% in its latest financial year






Etihad operates 58 passenger aircraft and five freighters, and has nearly 100 orders






Qatar has taken delivery of its 100th unit






Dubai air show will move from its present site to Al Maktoum International in 2013






Making their Dubai debuts will be the Boeing 787 and Bell Boeing MV-22

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## hatf IX



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## Al Bhatti

Where our politicians and people in-charge of the national assets. I think they all are blind and deaf, can someone show them and tell them about this new airport in Dubai and how Emirates is progressing?

The new airport is all set ready for operations and will be linked with Jebel Ali Sea Port as well for easy cargo transfer.

Two airports in one city and a profitable airline. Our blind and deaf, good for nothing politicians and people in-charge of the national assets cannot even manage a national airline and railways.


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## hatf IX

is their any link to see the show live . . . if any one has any please share . . .


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## Mosamania

Indian Army said:


> ADCOMM Smart Eye UAV



The Smart Eye UAV is maturing it looks completely different than its last pictures shown. Good Luck UAE on this nice looking UAV all the best.


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## Dazzler

PakShaheen79 said:


> F-15 and internal stalls.



notice the "fuel dump" @ 21 seconds folks and stop worrying about JFT fuel dump because it is no issue at all.

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## MJaa

*EGYPTIAN AIR FORCE 'VERY INTERESTED' IN THE JF-17 THUNDER: EFE AIR CHIEF
*






Commander of the Egyptian Air Force (EFE), Air Marshal Reda Mahmoud Hafez Mohamed has visited the JF-17 Thunder Fighter jet at the static display. The JF-17 Thunder has been developed jointly by the Pakistan and China as an affordable 4th generation aircraft.


*Read more: Egyptian Air Force 'Very Interested' in the JF-17 Thunder: EFE Air Chief ~ Pakistan Military Review*

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## Sinnerman108

nabil_05 said:


> watch out for a possible sales announcement folks



OK,,

I am assigning a full channel to you now, 
Lets see.

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## Dazzler

Egypt is almost a done buyer, they have liked the aircraft. last i heard they were discussing licensing and cost arrangements.

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## dilpakistani

Don't u guys think 200kg for 70KM range BVR missile is very heavy? means AMRAAM wih 90KM range and better avionics on board is just 150KG!?


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## Windjammer

hatf IX said:


> is their any link to see the show live . . . if any one has any please share . . .



Dubai Air Show 2011 (LIVE) - Program Details | Etfarag.com


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## Dazzler

aimarraul said:


> ?????C802AK?????????_??_???




* SD-10A was supposed to have a range of 90-100 kms, i wonder why it is mentioned 70 for A when the baseline model has 70??

* WMD-7 appears in the league of Litenning 2 atleast as from the specs, it possess all features of a 2nd-3rd Gen targeting/ designation pod including automatic damage assessment. Only confusion is whether it works in 8-12 or 3-5 band? The latter is 3rd gen. 

*C802AK seems to be a new deal even for Chinese friends. We did hear about As and KDs but AK? I am telling you, this is a gimmick to confuse masses, it is YJ-83 in the disguise. A hint is the Range (180 km)  

* LS-6 is a welcome addition in JFT arsenal. A compact laser guided missile with good accuracy.

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## hatf IX

PakShaheen79 said:


> F-15 and internal stalls.


 


nabil_05 said:


> notice the "fuel dump" @ 21 seconds folks and stop worrying about JFT fuel dump because it is no issue at all.



same thing i was about to say . . . .

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

rafale

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## Manticore

all the arabic forums are only covering these

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## hatf IX

ANTIBODY said:


>


you are the man . . . . . man

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## hatf IX

there are jf-17 pics too


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## houshanghai

*more pics links*

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/nz/dubaiairshow2011/index.shtml

http://www.huanqiu.com/zhuanti/2011dibaihangzhan/




*some videos*

http://roll.mil.news.sina.com.cn/s_dubaiairshow2011_video_big/index.shtml

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## MJaa

houshanghai said:


> *more pics links*
> 
> 201112???_?_
> 
> 2011????_???



Thanks friend

Hoping for more news about the Thunder

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## hatf IX

UAE F-16 . . .

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## PWFI

pakistani super mushak demonstration Vidéo Le Super-Mushak pakistanais au Dubaï air show de Bassam-Echo (Actualité - Bassam-Echo) - wat.tv

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## MJaa

houshanghai said:


> *more pics links*
> 
> http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/nz/dubaiairshow2011/index.shtml
> 
> 2011????_???



Thanks friend




Hoping for more news about the Thunder


----------



## eagle20054

JF17 THUNDER IN DUBAI AIRSHOW 2011

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## Sinnerman108

nabil_05 said:


> Egypt is almost a done buyer, they have liked the aircraft. last i heard they were discussing licensing and cost arrangements.



Okies, I have assigned an NMI to this information.
Maybe news reaches faster in Karachi than AHQ.


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## Last Hope

Alright guys I am seeing it live. Mirage 2000 followed by Eurofighter, F-15 then K-8 and Block 60.

It's awesome. Currently some trainers are performing in formations.

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## Areesh

danger-zone said:


> ^ its gona be the same. take my words


 
So you also say it is going to be Egypt.


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## Manticore

last one paf- me thinks

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## abaseen99



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## DANGER-ZONE

Areesh said:


> So you also say it is going to be Egypt.



i was saying about the performance - Thunder's performance. it would be same.


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## Doctor09

full video b  upload kar du thunder ki bahi


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## Last Hope

Dactar sahib thunder ney abhi perform nhi kiya... ye tou practice/opening thi..


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## abaseen99




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## Doctor09

Last Hope said:


> Dactar sahib thunder ney abhi perform nhi kiya... ye tou practice/opening thi..


satyasnass mein kab say uus k intazar mein logun ku pani k injections laga raha hun 
when thunder will perform ? what is your intel Agency guy?

---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------




Last Hope said:


> Dactar sahib thunder ney abhi perform nhi kiya... ye tou practice/opening thi..


satyasnass mein kab say uus k intazar mein logun ku pani k injections laga raha hun 
when thunder will perform ? what is your intel Agency guy?

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## Manticore

imgur: the simple image sharer

guys , please upload and post the images on free file sharing servers , the above one doesnt even need registeration---- a lot of pics that we had hotlinked in the xuhui , izmir airshows are not available anymore on those threads


it also has a firefox addon, so i just right click on the web image and it is automatically reuploaded on imgur

cheers!


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## abaseen99




----------



## Cool_Soldier

Egyptian Air Force 'Very Interested' in the JF-17 Thunder: EFE Air Chief ~ Pakistan Military Review

Egyptian Air Force 'Very Interested' in the JF-17 Thunder: EFE Air Chief
1:54 AM Qamar No comments

Commander of the Egyptian Air Force (EFE), Air Marshal Reda Mahmoud Hafez Mohamed has visited the JF-17 Thunder Fighter jet at the static display. The JF-17 Thunder has been developed jointly by the Pakistan and China as an affordable 4th generation aircraft.


Taking to the media personal at the Dubai Air Show, Air Marshal Reda Mahmoud Hafez Mohamed has said that Egyptian Air Force is 'very interested' in the JF-17 Thunder and one of the EFE pilot has already flown on the flight simulator.

Last year, Janes Defence Weekly had reported that the Egyptian Air Force is closely following the development of the JF-17 Thunder and has launched negotiations with Pakistan & China to discuss the the possibility of licensed production of light weight fighter jet in Egypt.

Egyptian Air Force already operates K-8 Karakorum intermediate jet trainer which was also jointly develoed by the Pakistan and China.Pakistan Air Force is looking to induct over 250 JF-17 Thunders to replace their ageing fleet of A-5s, F-7 P/MP and Mirages.

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## Last Hope

doctor09 said:


> satyasnass mein kab say uus k intazar mein logun ku pani k injections laga raha hun
> when thunder will perform ? what is your intel Agency guy?



Innki routine hoti hai.. Time table.. Iss liye mujhe pta nhi 
But maine ussko opening mein fly kertay huay dekha hai..


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## Doctor09

Last Hope said:


> Innki routine hoti hai.. Time table.. Iss liye mujhe pta nhi
> But maine ussko opening mein fly kertay huay dekha hai..


yar tm ISI k agent hu ya woh agent ju paisay ley kar bahir baijta hai


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## skybolt



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## skybolt



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## Dazzler

salman108 said:


> Okies, I have assigned an NMI to this information.
> Maybe news reaches faster in Karachi than AHQ.



i didn't get this news from Karachi.


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## skybolt



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## skybolt



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## skybolt




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## jawadqamar

BUY THREE JF-17 THUNDERS FOR PRICE OF ONE F-16: PAK DEFENCE MINISTER







Pakistani Defence Minister, Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar has said that &#8220;You can buy three of our aircraft for one F-16,&#8221; *"Three squadrons are already flying the aircraft in Pakistan and one squadron in China.&#8221; *


*Read more: Buy Three JF-17 Thunders For Price of One F-16: Pak Defence Minister ~ Pakistan Military Review*


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## skybolt




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## abaseen99



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## skybolt




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## abaseen99




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## Last Hope

doctor09 said:


> yar tm ISI k agent hu ya woh agent ju paisay ley kar bahir baijta hai


 
Doctor Saab hur cheez public ko nhi bta sakta mein.
Mein ISI ki payroll ka nhi hun but unnkay liye kaam kiye huay hain

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## skybolt



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## abaseen99



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## skybolt



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## abaseen99



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## regular

After looking at the weapons description of the JF17 we still need a lot of improvement especially in the SD-10A range for BVR in order to tackle the Indians BVR SUK30MKI...cuz I guess their radar can hit the targets beyond 120km and can track our JF17 beyond 200kms...we really need SD10 in at least 120++km range to tackle the Eurofighters and Russian flankers...Other than that the rest of the weapons are good right now depending on the tech we have at hand and its utility.....

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## skybolt



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## regular

Anyways great performance by the PAF in its development in the shortest time and thnx a lot to our brother China in its greatest collaboration for this joint project....Hope it will be the airdominant fighter within the near future for its any rival...

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

Yse!the pics looks great and we got so much variety in this air show especially in the weapons category.....Excellent development R&D tech.....etc....


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## skybolt




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## Cool_Soldier

jawadqamar said:


> BUY THREE JF-17 THUNDERS FOR PRICE OF ONE F-16: PAK DEFENCE MINISTER
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani Defence Minister, Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar has said that &#8220;You can buy three of our aircraft for one F-16,&#8221; *"Three squadrons are already flying the aircraft in Pakistan and one squadron in China.&#8221; *
> 
> 
> *Read more: Buy Three JF-17 Thunders For Price of One F-16: Pak Defence Minister ~ Pakistan Military Review*





That means, Third squadron is going to announced operational very soon lus fourth is directly arriving from China.Great news


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## Cool_Soldier

jawadqamar said:


> BUY THREE JF-17 THUNDERS FOR PRICE OF ONE F-16: PAK DEFENCE MINISTER
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani Defence Minister, Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar has said that You can buy three of our aircraft for one F-16, *"Three squadrons are already flying the aircraft in Pakistan and one squadron in China. *
> 
> 
> *Read more: Buy Three JF-17 Thunders For Price of One F-16: Pak Defence Minister ~ Pakistan Military Review*





That means, Third squadron is going to announced operational very soon lus fourth is directly arriving from China.Great news


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## skybolt




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## skybolt



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## Manticore



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## skybolt

*A close up look at the Dubai AirShow - 2011.*


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## rcrmj

regular said:


> After looking at the weapons description of the JF17 we still need a lot of improvement especially in the SD-10A range for BVR in order to tackle the Indians BVR SUK30MKI...cuz I guess their radar can hit the *targets beyond 120km and can track our JF17 beyond 200kms*...we really need* SD10 in at least 120++km* range to tackle the Eurofighters and Russian flankers...Other than that the rest of the weapons are good right now depending on the tech we have at hand and its utility.....


 
this is not possible, any Mid-range BRV can hardly reach classic maximum engagement range of 50KM, those 120KM ranges for BVR is the missile's maximum engine flight range (normally around 35km-70km) + gliding flight range (normally form 50km to 200km) which means nothing in real combat situation.

besides the RCS size of JF-17 it is highly doubt that MKI can detect it at 120KM let alone tracking and a solid lock, so SD-10A with maximum engagement range of 49KM (same as AIM-120C) is more than enough to face the threat of IAF. furthermore Russia missile has very bad reputation of its bad accuracy even though the warhead is very powerful`

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## skybolt

*Dubai Air Show Teaser - 2011*


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## skybolt



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## skybolt




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## razgriz19

abaseen99 said:


>



looks like a 500lb variant of LS-6!
hopefully they'll also integrate 50KG and 100KG LS-6 variants so that thunder can carry more of them..

and besides they are more practical in WoT as they would only be dropped over small compounds..


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## skybolt




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## skybolt




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## jawadqamar

razgriz19 said:


> looks like a 500lb variant of LS-6!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hopefully they'll also integrate 50KG and 100KG LS-6 variants so that thunder can carry more of them..
> 
> and besides they are more practical in WoT as they would only be dropped over small compounds..



*I know LS-6 is written over the this PGM, but take a look at this
*











*It looks exactly like LT-3 which uses satellite guidance tailkit from the LS-6 250 kg and a semi-active laser homing seeker just like EGBU-24.*

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## Dazzler

wonderful pics fellas! keep em coming and take a big THANKS from me.

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## skybolt

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

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## Green Blood

Assalam O alaekum , did thunder perform today or not ? if yes please share the full video


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## skybolt

Green Blood said:


> Assalam O alaekum , did thunder perform today or not ? if yes please share the full video


Yep Thunder did fantastic show... Some videos are also shared but still waiting for full length video...
will be uploaded soon... 
Keep intouch...

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## skybolt



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## skybolt



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## Dil Pakistan

I am watching these pictures and words of a Chinese friend come to my mind; I had read few months ago on this forum. 

He said, "I want to see the J-10 in PAF colours because fighter jets look beautiful in PAF colors. 

I am wondering, he was so right 

The BLACK PANTHER on tail is just fabulous.


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## skybolt



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## Dazzler

PAF light grey tone has something special about it.


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## skybolt




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## skybolt



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## abaseen99




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## skybolt



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## skybolt



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## skybolt



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## regular

nabil_05 said:


> wonderful pics fellas! keep em coming and take a big THANKS from me.


Hey! I wanna ride the king of the show JF-17 and U just getting happi on the pics only.....


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## skybolt



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## skybolt



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## Doctor09

*Skybolt*
how many thanks you want ? 
i am pressing thanks again and again ....you deserve this..... nice job


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## skybolt



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## SQ8

No coverage for the Thunder?? no video of its display performance?
The Arabzis have screwed us over again for their white skinned masters?


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## skybolt

doctor09 said:


> *Skybolt*
> how many thanks you want ?
> i am pressing thanks again and again ....you deserve this..... nice job


Keep Going Buddy... 
Keep Visiting... More Stuff on the way ....


----------



## Qasibr

skybolt said:


>



This image is my favorite coming out of Dubai so far. Quiet a striking bird we've got.

I hope the potential sales announcement @nabil_05 mentioned goes through. If the JF17's second customer's Egypt, our negotiations probably factor in the question of what things and technology we want to share and what we can't. The new American backed&installed regime can't be trusted not to show the Israelis everything inside out, I hope we don't end up using the same radar and critical components that Pakistan&China provide for export. India would simply love for Israel to get an inside-out tour.


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## Manticore



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## skybolt



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## Manticore

http://www.huanqiu.com/zhuanti/2011dibaihangzhan/

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## SBD-3

Hatz off to all photographers but I seriously think the best lot of pics still remains to be revealed


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## regular

rcrmj said:


> this is not possible, any Mid-range BRV can hardly reach classic maximum engagement range of 50KM, those 120KM ranges for BVR is the missile's maximum engine flight range (normally around 35km-70km) + gliding flight range (normally form 50km to 200km) which means nothing in real combat situation.
> 
> besides the RCS size of JF-17 it is highly doubt that MKI can detect it at 120KM let alone tracking and a solid lock, so SD-10A with maximum engagement range of 49KM (same as AIM-120C) is more than enough to face the threat of IAF. furthermore Russia missile has very bad reputation of its bad accuracy even though the warhead is very powerful`


Okay nice explanation Sir!
I was reading the article on the AIM120A/B/C BVR's cuz they gave range for A/B as 50-70km and AIM120C as >105km.... that made me confusing. cuz 105km is greater than our SD10A..but if SD10A engagement range is almost same as AIM120C i.e. 50km then thats enough. Yea! ure true that Russians bvr's precision is not accurate so it can balance the position in our favor . Its higly likely for JF17'ns to go undetected even by SUK30MKI's cuz 1m2 RCS is pretty small from 70++km ranges..Yes! In case of F-15(C/SG/E), F-35 and F-22 their radars can detect 1m2(RCS for JF17) RCS from 120++km ranges.So the showdown of JF17 will be interesting with them. But I guess JF17blockII will be comparable to them(provided powerful AESA radar)......


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## Manticore

note configuration

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## abaseen99



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## TOPGUN

Awsome pic's and videos hope to see more thx guys for sharing GOD bless Pakistan.


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## Manticore



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## abaseen99

&#12288;&#12288;World Wide Web Independent Reporters Dubai live coverage on November 13, the 12th Dubai International Air Show was officially opened in Dubai airport, in this air show, China and Pakistan jointly developed by the " Fierce Dragon "fighter high-profile exhibitors. After the aircraft industry and the Pakistan Air Force coordination, this jointly sent three "Fierce Dragon" exhibition, in which a flight performance, a static display and weapons for ground display. The appearance, but also the "Fierce Dragon" fighter following the 2009 and 2010 Farnborough Airshow , the third time in large-scale comprehensive international air show.


&#12288;&#12288;During the air show, "Fierce Dragon" aircraft through the air show, static display, the model shows, press conferences and a series of events, become a major highlight of this air show and focus.
http://mil.huanqiu.com/china/2011-11/2167436.html


&#12288;&#12288;"Fierce Dragon" aircraft, is the China Aviation Industry Corporation and Pakistan Air Force, the spirit of "co-investment, risks and shared interests" principle, cooperation in the development, co-production of a type of advanced multi-purpose light fighter. China Code FC-1 / "Fierce Dragon", the Pakistani side code JF-17/Thunder.


&#12288;&#12288;Operational environment for the 21st century, developed the "Fierce Dragon" is a highlight of the aircraft in the air to intercept long-range, close combat and all-weather precision strike capability across, single, single-seat light utility aircraft. Good mobile combat capability, greater range, empty time and combat radius, excellent STOL characteristics and a strong weapon load capacity. The machine uses an advanced aerodynamic shape, a large thrust and low fuel consumption of the turbofan engine, advanced digital flight control systems and telex highly integrated avionics and weapons systems, with a variety of advanced precision navigation, battlefield situational awareness, target detection and recognition, attack and electronic warfare operations and other functions. The whole machine a total of seven plug-in points, with a total capacity of more than plug-4000kg, can hang multiple empty, air-surface weapons, including two goals with a variety of advanced ultra-horizon attack capability.


&#12288;&#12288;The project began in 1998 China and Pakistan signed a joint development agreement in principle. August 25, 2003 Xiaolong 01 prototype flew successfully. In March 2007, the first aircraft delivered Xiaolong Pakistan Air Force. At present, Pakistan has equipped aircraft assembly, flight test and component production capacity.


&#12288;&#12288;Xiaolong aircraft of Pakistan Air Force has fielded and combat effectiveness. Pakistan Air Force after high-intensity training and validation of flight, aircraft performance, operational capabilities and integrated logistics support capability has been further enhanced and high praise. Xiaolong fighters participated in many international exhibitions and exercise, demonstrating good performance Xiaolong fighters and arms trade in the international aviation market.

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## skybolt




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## skybolt



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## Windjammer

Dubai Airshow 2011: Modified C-130s and Google Earth assist Pakistan Air Force in border region operations
13 November 2011 



The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was forced to use Google Earth to plan its early missions against militants fighting in the border regions with Afghanistan.

Speaking on the eve of the Dubai Airshow at the Dubai International Air Chiefs Conference (DIAC), Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleiman, Chief of the Pakistan Air Force told delegates that at the beginning of its counter insurgency operations in the Bajaur Agency region back in August 2008 the air force did not have the intelligence gathering capabilities it needed for detailed mission planning.

As a result, it was forced to resort to use Google Earth software to plan the missions.

'It was not very useful, but it did give us an aerial view of the villages so we could see their layout,' Suleiman told Shephard.

'We were able to use the 3D terrain view to allow our pilots to see their entry and escape routes from the target.'

Since then, the PAF has taken delivery of Goodrich DB-110 reconnaissance pods fitted to its fleet of F-16s and a handful of Star Safire III EO/IR turrets which have been fitted to the noses of C-130 transport aircraft allowing them to be used as a long-endurance ISR platform flown by PAF crews but with the sensor operated by Pakistan Army personnel using a mission system fitted in the cargo hold, rather like that used on the US Marine Corps Harvest Hawk KC-130J.

Suleiman said that that PAF has flown around 650 missions using the Star Safire system on the C-130 adding that the system has been hugely appreciated by ground commanders. There had also been some 500 sorties using the DB-110.

Since the beginning of PAF operations against the militants in the region, the air arm has dropped some 10,600 weapons against 4,600 targets.

During operations in the Swat Valley which began in May 2009, the PAF dropped 1,700 laser-guided bombs as they attacked militant positions in preparation for the movement of ground forces.

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## DANGER-ZONE

Santro said:


> No coverage for the Thunder?? no video of its display performance?
> The Arabzis have screwed us over again for their white skinned masters?


----------



## abaseen99

danger-zone said:


>


 yaar they are interesting in white meat


----------



## Manticore

[HD] 2011 Dubai Air Show: F-16 UAE AF and JF17 demo's - YouTube

hope the full demo is posted

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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------

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## Manticore



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## SQ8

The Shiekhas must be happy with the hardware their money has bought them, considering even the ground controllers are American..
Who was the disinterested shiekh yawning away?? 
Wonder what he was thinking?.. bah.. aircraft.. I like American ones, they have big lounges and a place to put my harem.

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## Tempest II

nabil_05 said:


> * WMD-7 appears in the league of Litenning 2 atleast as from the specs, it possess all features of a 2nd-3rd Gen targeting/ designation pod including automatic damage assessment. Only confusion is whether it works in 8-12 or 3-5 band? The latter is 3rd gen.



It is 3-5 microns: Super lightning &#8211; of the Pakistan Air Force fighter aircraft JF-17BLOCK2 | WAREYE 



> WMD-7 infrared device operating in middle infrared band (3-5 microns),

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## Last Hope

*Alright guys the timetable here says our Bird will start its might at 1444 Local Time.*


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## Tempest II

abaseen99 said:


> &#12288;&#12288;&#12288;&#12288;.... ..., *with a total capacity of more than plug-4000kg*, can hang multiple empty, air-surface weapons, including two goals with a variety of advanced ultra-horizon attack capability.



Interesting! Source please.


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## Super Falcon

yaaar JF 17 ka koi poora display pesha kara suna ha ka angreez kia khata ha commentry man thunder ka bare ma


----------



## Manticore



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## Dazzler

agar aap ki jaib ijazat deti ho to ap apna jahaz bhi kharid sakte hain..


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## Manticore




----------



## Dazzler

Tempest II said:


> It is 3-5 microns: Super lightning  of the Pakistan Air Force fighter aircraft JF-17BLOCK2 | WAREYE



so this means that WMD-7 is a third Gen pod, comparable with Litenning 3, Damocles, Atflir etc. All of these use 3-5 micron but still lacks in overall detection range and some features.


----------



## abaseen99

Tempest II said:


> Interesting! Source please.


????????????????????_??_???

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## unicorn

Dubai ShowNews | Day 1 | Express 3 | Zinio Digital Magazines


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## Mosamania

Santro said:


> No coverage for the Thunder?? no video of its display performance?
> The Arabzis have screwed us over again for their white skinned masters?



A trolling Mod.... Oh yeah it is PDF where it is a site policy to bash Arabs on a daily basis on no grounds except Racism.

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## VelocuR

Clearly, UAE F-16 Block 60 steal the shows, many are attracted to the super F-16s air show, impressive and quicker!


----------



## somebozo

Santro said:


> No coverage for the Thunder?? no video of its display performance?
> The Arabzis have screwed us over again for their white skinned masters?


\

I remember your infractions Santro but ...you amaze me! 

We should not have a category of SuperMods to keep check on regular Mod..


----------



## Dazzler

Mosamania said:


> A trolling Mod.... Oh yeah it is PDF where it is a site policy to bash Arabs on a daily basis on no grounds except Racism.



it is in a lighter tone so no need to feel offensive. We respect Arabs and criticize ourselves more than them.


----------



## VelocuR

Guys, interesting some points here in red lines. 






Dubai ShowNews | Day 1 | Express 3 | Zinio Digital Magazines

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RaptorRX707 said:


> Guys, interesting some points here in red lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dubai ShowNews | Day 1 | Express 3 | Zinio Digital Magazines



Nabil bro.. has already confirmed the AESA for blk-II n this link shows a TVC -WS-13 engine.. AWESOME NEWS INDEED.

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## Manticore

cropped first video

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## unicorn

From the video antibody posted...

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## phrozenflame

ANTIBODY said:


> [/video]
> 
> cropped first video


Same thing, better quality and colours adjusted

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## Kompromat

Santro said:


> No coverage for the Thunder?? no video of its display performance?
> The Arabzis have screwed us over again for their white skinned masters?



Sadly these sort of comments don't suit a man like you. Im sure this is not your best.

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## Tempest II

ANTIBODY said:


> cropped first video



It rocks!! ... ... Ok, that is not the spelling for degrees, but that is my copyright (marker and tracer) ... lol .... Too late to do another another one! Sorry

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## hatf IX

happy to see smoke less engine . . .


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## rcrmj

abaseen99 said:


> ????????????????????_??_???



very important information from this news article, it says Pakistan now is able to assemble, testing and producing spare parts independently, this means during war time Pakistan dont need any outside helps for maintain those fighters unlike F-16, hopefully after few years when the WS-13 is operational PAF can fully digest that too`!!

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## sohailbarki

Awesome F 16 looks like an eagle while performing maneuvers compared to JFT.

JFT looks like a lazy boy on the stage, not impressive at all. I am not buying this performance.

JFT seriously need some powerful power plant and avionics need to be modified further to enhance its maneuverability.


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## rcrmj

regular said:


> Okay nice explanation Sir!
> I was reading the article on the AIM120A/B/C BVR's cuz they gave range for A/B as 50-70km and AIM120C as >105km.... that made me confusing. cuz 105km is greater than our SD10A..but if SD10A engagement range is almost same as AIM120C i.e. 50km then thats enough. Yea! ure true that Russians bvr's precision is not accurate so it can balance the position in our favor . Its higly likely for JF17'ns to go undetected even by SUK30MKI's cuz 1m2 RCS is pretty small from 70++km ranges..Yes! In case of F-15(C/SG/E), F-35 and F-22 their radars can detect 1m2(RCS for JF17) RCS from 120++km ranges.So the showdown of JF17 will be interesting with them. But I guess JF17blockII will be comparable to them(provided powerful AESA radar)......



yes, and the maximum engagement rang of BVR missiles are complicated mathmetical matters, the range is heavily depending on the launching speed, altitude and AoA. thanks to the advanced material and areodynamics techs used on missiles that enable them to fly smoothly and 'far' (as you can see those 200km+ ranges BVR from advertisment), but due to the short working time nature of rocket engine which gives the missile very limited time to maintain the velocity and kinetic energy to mount super maneuverability to conter the maneuvering targets, because after the classic maximum range, a light maneuver of the target can easily dodge the missiles at meantime needless to say the sophisticated electronic interferences from target.

luckly the low accuracy and electronic capabilities are the short comings of russian missiles, so until IAF equipt with European ramjet Meteor missiles then the situation will become quite tough, thats why the Chinese ramjet BVR missile is under its way with full speed, lets be patient``!!

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## Don Jaguar

"You can buy three of our aircraft for one F-16" says Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar. PHOTO: EXPRESS

*DUBAI: Pakistan is pitching its new JF17 Thunder fighter jet, developed jointly with China, at an aggressive discount to dominant Western rivals, the country&#8217;s defense minister said on Sunday.*

&#8220;You can buy three of our aircraft for one F-16,&#8221; Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar told Reuters at the Dubai Air Show, where the aircraft is being displayed.

He said that the producer, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, was not able to keep pace with the requirements of the air force.

&#8220;Three squadrons are already flying the aircraft in Pakistan and one squadron in China,&#8221; he added.

Analysts expect the aircraft, which Mukhtar said was priced at $25-30 million, to be focused on emerging markets in Asia and Africa.

&#8220;Going to the (European) market is not very easy because you are cutting the profits of some other people,&#8221; Mukhtar said.

He said the development of the aircraft was not targeted at archrival India.

&#8220;India need not worry &#8212; it&#8217;s not India-specific. We are building very close relations with India.&#8221;

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ut-price-jf17-fighter-jet-dubai-air-show.html


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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> very important information from this news article, it says Pakistan now is able to assemble, testing and producing spare parts independently, this means during war time Pakistan dont need any outside helps for maintain those fighters unlike F-16, hopefully after few years when the WS-13 is operational PAF can fully digest that too`!!


 
The WS-13 engine is also a joint development between China and Pakistan.

http://mil.huanqiu.com/Observation/2010-12/1381638.html

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## Don Jaguar

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The WS-13 engine is also a joint development between China and Pakistan.
> 
> ????????????????????_??_???



What???


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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The WS-13 engine is also a joint development between China and Pakistan.
> 
> ????????????????????_??_???



well this is even better for PAF


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## ChineseTiger1986

Don Jaguar said:


> What???



China has contributed more technogical inputs and Pakistan has contributed more money.

Later Pakistan will fully manufacture WS-13 or WS-13A by itself.

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## Don Jaguar

&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#24076;&#26395;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;

&#32654;&#21002;&#31216;J-20&#24050;&#39640;&#36895;&#28369;&#36305;&#39318;&#39134;&#22312;&#21363; &#26426;&#38271;&#36229;21&#31859;

&#36817;&#20960;&#26085;&#65292;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#21508;&#22823;&#20891;&#20107;&#35770;&#22363;&#19978;&#27969;&#20256;&#30340;&#31354;&#20891;&#19979;&#19968;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#22270;&#29255;

&#28857;&#20987;&#26597;&#30475;&#26356;&#22810;&#20891;&#20107;&#22270;&#29255;

&#12288;&#12288;&#19996;&#26041;&#32593;12&#26376;29&#26085;&#28040;&#24687;&#65306;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#29233;&#22269;&#32773;&#32593;&#31449;12&#26376;27&#30331;&#36733;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#26410;&#26469;&#21313;&#24180;&#25152;&#26377;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#25226;&#21457;&#23637;&#37325;&#28857;&#32858;&#28966;&#20110;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#25152;&#29992;&#30340;&#38544;&#24418;&#25216;&#26415;&#19978;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#20063;&#23558;&#22312;25&#24180;&#20869;&#25317;&#26377;&#22823;&#37327;&#19982;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#30340;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#36825;&#23558;&#23545;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26500;&#25104;&#26497;&#22823;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#20026;&#27492;&#65292;&#25991;&#31456;&#21015;&#20986;&#20102;&#22810;&#39033;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#21487;&#33021;&#36873;&#25321;&#30340;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;&#23041;&#32961;&#30340;&#25514;&#26045;&#65292;&#20854;&#20013;&#21253;&#25324;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#35774;&#35745;&#21644;&#29983;&#20135;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#32487;&#32493;&#25913;&#21892;&#21319;&#32423;JF-17&#26541;&#40857;&#25112;&#26426;&#20351;&#20854;&#21487;&#38598;&#25104;&#26410;&#26469;50&#24180;&#20869;&#30340;&#20808;&#36827;&#25216;&#26415;&#65292;&#20197;&#21450;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;WS-13&#24341;&#25806;&#20026;&#26080;&#20154;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#25552;&#20379;&#26356;&#24378;&#22823;&#21160;&#21147;&#31561;&#31561;&#12290;

&#12288;&#12288;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#24076;&#26395;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;&#23041;&#32961;

&#12288;&#12288;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#26412;&#22303;&#39134;&#26426;&#21644;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#29983;&#20135;&#39046;&#22495;&#23384;&#22312;&#30340;&#24040;&#22823;&#22833;&#36133;&#65292;&#20351;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#20986;&#29616;&#20102;&#24456;&#22823;&#24046;&#36317;&#12290;&#30446;&#21069;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#27491;&#35774;&#27861;&#24357;&#34917;&#22240;&#26080;&#21147;&#29983;&#20135;&#36731;&#22411;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;(LCA)&#32780;&#20986;&#29616;&#30340;&#31354;&#30333;&#12290;&#20854;&#20013;&#21253;&#25324;&#19977;&#20010;&#31561;&#32423;&#30340;&#37319;&#36141;&#12289;&#36141;&#20080;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#20063;&#21487;&#33021;&#30452;&#25509;&#20174;&#32654;&#22269;&#36141;&#20080;&#25112;&#26426;&#31561;&#31561;&#12290;

&#12288;&#12288;&#32780;&#19988;&#65292;&#26410;&#26469;25&#24180;&#20869;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#25317;&#26377;&#22823;&#37327;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#12290;&#19981;&#36807;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#20891;&#20173;&#20250;&#36965;&#36965;&#39046;&#20808;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#19981;&#20250;&#38754;&#20020;&#26469;&#33258;&#26032;&#24503;&#37324;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#32780;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#24050;&#32463;&#27880;&#24847;&#21040;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#25968;&#37327;&#21464;&#21270;&#65292;&#24182;&#19988;&#27491;&#22312;&#37319;&#21462;&#36866;&#24403;&#25514;&#26045;&#24212;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#24773;&#20917;&#12290;

&#12288;&#25991;&#31456;&#25351;&#20986;&#65292;&#22914;&#26524;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#33021;&#22815;&#29983;&#20135;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#20854;&#25152;&#21046;&#36896;&#30340;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#30830;&#23454;&#31283;&#23450;&#21487;&#38752;&#65292;&#37027;&#20040;&#21040;2025&#24180;&#26102;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#20250;&#25317;&#26377;&#29616;&#24441;&#30340;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;PAK-FA&#25112;&#26426;&#12290;

&#12288;&#12288;&#38024;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#24773;&#20917;&#65292;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#21046;&#35746;&#20102;&#22914;&#19979;&#23545;&#31574;&#65306;&#24320;&#22987;&#24930;&#24930;&#25484;&#25569;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#25216;&#26415;&#65292;&#20197;&#20415;&#23558;&#20854;&#34701;&#20837;&#29616;&#26377;&#25112;&#26426;&#20013;&#65307;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#35774;&#35745;&#21644;&#24314;&#36896;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#21450;&#20854;&#20182;&#25112;&#26426;&#65307;&#36141;&#20080;&#37319;&#29992;&#31245;&#26087;&#25216;&#26415;&#30340;&#32654;&#22269;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#28982;&#21518;&#20197;&#36739;&#23569;&#30340;&#36153;&#29992;&#21319;&#32423;&#36825;&#20123;&#39134;&#26426;&#65307;&#19982;&#21360;&#23612;&#12289;&#22303;&#32819;&#20854;&#32852;&#21512;&#21457;&#23637;&#22320;&#21306;&#20891;&#20107;&#25216;&#26415;&#65292;&#20174;&#32780;&#24212;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#23041;&#32961;&#65307;&#37319;&#29992;&#25104;&#26412;&#36739;&#20302;&#30340;&#26041;&#24335;&#22788;&#29702;&#21363;&#23558;&#21040;&#26469;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;&#65307;&#21033;&#29992;&#23548;&#24377;&#24212;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#23041;&#32961;&#65307;&#32487;&#32493;&#25913;&#21892;&#21319;&#32423;JF-17&#26541;&#40857;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#20351;&#20854;&#21487;&#38598;&#25104;&#26410;&#26469;50&#24180;&#20869;&#30340;&#20808;&#36827;&#25216;&#26415;&#65307;&#29983;&#20135;&#22312;&#27516;-10B&#22522;&#30784;&#19978;&#21457;&#23637;&#32780;&#26469;&#30340;FC-20C&#65292;&#24182;&#19988;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#27516;-11&#65307;&#23558;&#26080;&#20154;&#26426;&#25216;&#26415;&#25512;&#36827;&#21040;&#19979;&#19968;&#20010;&#27700;&#24179;&#19978;&#65292;&#24182;&#35774;&#35745;&#12289;&#29983;&#20135;&#26080;&#20154;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#12290;


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Don Jaguar said:


> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#24076;&#26395;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;
> 
> &#32654;&#21002;&#31216;J-20&#24050;&#39640;&#36895;&#28369;&#36305;&#39318;&#39134;&#22312;&#21363; &#26426;&#38271;&#36229;21&#31859;
> 
> &#36817;&#20960;&#26085;&#65292;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#21508;&#22823;&#20891;&#20107;&#35770;&#22363;&#19978;&#27969;&#20256;&#30340;&#31354;&#20891;&#19979;&#19968;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#22270;&#29255;
> 
> &#28857;&#20987;&#26597;&#30475;&#26356;&#22810;&#20891;&#20107;&#22270;&#29255;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#19996;&#26041;&#32593;12&#26376;29&#26085;&#28040;&#24687;&#65306;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#29233;&#22269;&#32773;&#32593;&#31449;12&#26376;27&#30331;&#36733;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#26410;&#26469;&#21313;&#24180;&#25152;&#26377;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#25226;&#21457;&#23637;&#37325;&#28857;&#32858;&#28966;&#20110;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#25152;&#29992;&#30340;&#38544;&#24418;&#25216;&#26415;&#19978;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#20063;&#23558;&#22312;25&#24180;&#20869;&#25317;&#26377;&#22823;&#37327;&#19982;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#30340;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#36825;&#23558;&#23545;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26500;&#25104;&#26497;&#22823;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#20026;&#27492;&#65292;&#25991;&#31456;&#21015;&#20986;&#20102;&#22810;&#39033;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#21487;&#33021;&#36873;&#25321;&#30340;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;&#23041;&#32961;&#30340;&#25514;&#26045;&#65292;&#20854;&#20013;&#21253;&#25324;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#35774;&#35745;&#21644;&#29983;&#20135;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#32487;&#32493;&#25913;&#21892;&#21319;&#32423;JF-17&#26541;&#40857;&#25112;&#26426;&#20351;&#20854;&#21487;&#38598;&#25104;&#26410;&#26469;50&#24180;&#20869;&#30340;&#20808;&#36827;&#25216;&#26415;&#65292;&#20197;&#21450;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;WS-13&#24341;&#25806;&#20026;&#26080;&#20154;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#25552;&#20379;&#26356;&#24378;&#22823;&#21160;&#21147;&#31561;&#31561;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#24076;&#26395;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;&#23041;&#32961;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#26412;&#22303;&#39134;&#26426;&#21644;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#29983;&#20135;&#39046;&#22495;&#23384;&#22312;&#30340;&#24040;&#22823;&#22833;&#36133;&#65292;&#20351;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#20986;&#29616;&#20102;&#24456;&#22823;&#24046;&#36317;&#12290;&#30446;&#21069;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#27491;&#35774;&#27861;&#24357;&#34917;&#22240;&#26080;&#21147;&#29983;&#20135;&#36731;&#22411;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;(LCA)&#32780;&#20986;&#29616;&#30340;&#31354;&#30333;&#12290;&#20854;&#20013;&#21253;&#25324;&#19977;&#20010;&#31561;&#32423;&#30340;&#37319;&#36141;&#12289;&#36141;&#20080;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#20063;&#21487;&#33021;&#30452;&#25509;&#20174;&#32654;&#22269;&#36141;&#20080;&#25112;&#26426;&#31561;&#31561;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#32780;&#19988;&#65292;&#26410;&#26469;25&#24180;&#20869;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#25317;&#26377;&#22823;&#37327;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#12290;&#19981;&#36807;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#20891;&#20173;&#20250;&#36965;&#36965;&#39046;&#20808;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#19981;&#20250;&#38754;&#20020;&#26469;&#33258;&#26032;&#24503;&#37324;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#32780;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#24050;&#32463;&#27880;&#24847;&#21040;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#25968;&#37327;&#21464;&#21270;&#65292;&#24182;&#19988;&#27491;&#22312;&#37319;&#21462;&#36866;&#24403;&#25514;&#26045;&#24212;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#24773;&#20917;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#25991;&#31456;&#25351;&#20986;&#65292;&#22914;&#26524;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#33021;&#22815;&#29983;&#20135;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#20854;&#25152;&#21046;&#36896;&#30340;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#30830;&#23454;&#31283;&#23450;&#21487;&#38752;&#65292;&#37027;&#20040;&#21040;2025&#24180;&#26102;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#20250;&#25317;&#26377;&#29616;&#24441;&#30340;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;PAK-FA&#25112;&#26426;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#38024;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#24773;&#20917;&#65292;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#21046;&#35746;&#20102;&#22914;&#19979;&#23545;&#31574;&#65306;&#24320;&#22987;&#24930;&#24930;&#25484;&#25569;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#25216;&#26415;&#65292;&#20197;&#20415;&#23558;&#20854;&#34701;&#20837;&#29616;&#26377;&#25112;&#26426;&#20013;&#65307;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#35774;&#35745;&#21644;&#24314;&#36896;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#21450;&#20854;&#20182;&#25112;&#26426;&#65307;&#36141;&#20080;&#37319;&#29992;&#31245;&#26087;&#25216;&#26415;&#30340;&#32654;&#22269;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#28982;&#21518;&#20197;&#36739;&#23569;&#30340;&#36153;&#29992;&#21319;&#32423;&#36825;&#20123;&#39134;&#26426;&#65307;&#19982;&#21360;&#23612;&#12289;&#22303;&#32819;&#20854;&#32852;&#21512;&#21457;&#23637;&#22320;&#21306;&#20891;&#20107;&#25216;&#26415;&#65292;&#20174;&#32780;&#24212;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#23041;&#32961;&#65307;&#37319;&#29992;&#25104;&#26412;&#36739;&#20302;&#30340;&#26041;&#24335;&#22788;&#29702;&#21363;&#23558;&#21040;&#26469;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;&#65307;&#21033;&#29992;&#23548;&#24377;&#24212;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#23041;&#32961;&#65307;&#32487;&#32493;&#25913;&#21892;&#21319;&#32423;JF-17&#26541;&#40857;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#20351;&#20854;&#21487;&#38598;&#25104;&#26410;&#26469;50&#24180;&#20869;&#30340;&#20808;&#36827;&#25216;&#26415;&#65307;&#29983;&#20135;&#22312;&#27516;-10B&#22522;&#30784;&#19978;&#21457;&#23637;&#32780;&#26469;&#30340;FC-20C&#65292;&#24182;&#19988;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#27516;-11&#65307;&#23558;&#26080;&#20154;&#26426;&#25216;&#26415;&#25512;&#36827;&#21040;&#19979;&#19968;&#20010;&#27700;&#24179;&#19978;&#65292;&#24182;&#35774;&#35745;&#12289;&#29983;&#20135;&#26080;&#20154;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#12290;



This sentence:

"&#20197;&#21450;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;WS-13&#24341;&#25806;&#20026;&#26080;&#20154;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#25552;&#20379;&#26356;&#24378;&#22823;&#21160;&#21147;&#31561;&#31561;"

It means WS-13 is a joint development with China and it will also power for the future unmanned uav.

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## rcrmj

Don Jaguar said:


> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#24076;&#26395;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;
> 
> &#32654;&#21002;&#31216;J-20&#24050;&#39640;&#36895;&#28369;&#36305;&#39318;&#39134;&#22312;&#21363; &#26426;&#38271;&#36229;21&#31859;
> 
> &#36817;&#20960;&#26085;&#65292;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#21508;&#22823;&#20891;&#20107;&#35770;&#22363;&#19978;&#27969;&#20256;&#30340;&#31354;&#20891;&#19979;&#19968;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#22270;&#29255;
> 
> &#28857;&#20987;&#26597;&#30475;&#26356;&#22810;&#20891;&#20107;&#22270;&#29255;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#19996;&#26041;&#32593;12&#26376;29&#26085;&#28040;&#24687;&#65306;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#29233;&#22269;&#32773;&#32593;&#31449;12&#26376;27&#30331;&#36733;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#26410;&#26469;&#21313;&#24180;&#25152;&#26377;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#25226;&#21457;&#23637;&#37325;&#28857;&#32858;&#28966;&#20110;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#25152;&#29992;&#30340;&#38544;&#24418;&#25216;&#26415;&#19978;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#20063;&#23558;&#22312;25&#24180;&#20869;&#25317;&#26377;&#22823;&#37327;&#19982;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#30340;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#36825;&#23558;&#23545;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26500;&#25104;&#26497;&#22823;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#20026;&#27492;&#65292;&#25991;&#31456;&#21015;&#20986;&#20102;&#22810;&#39033;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#21487;&#33021;&#36873;&#25321;&#30340;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;&#23041;&#32961;&#30340;&#25514;&#26045;&#65292;&#20854;&#20013;&#21253;&#25324;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#35774;&#35745;&#21644;&#29983;&#20135;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#32487;&#32493;&#25913;&#21892;&#21319;&#32423;JF-17&#26541;&#40857;&#25112;&#26426;&#20351;&#20854;&#21487;&#38598;&#25104;&#26410;&#26469;50&#24180;&#20869;&#30340;&#20808;&#36827;&#25216;&#26415;&#65292;&#20197;&#21450;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;WS-13&#24341;&#25806;&#20026;&#26080;&#20154;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#25552;&#20379;&#26356;&#24378;&#22823;&#21160;&#21147;&#31561;&#31561;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#24076;&#26395;&#19982;&#20013;&#22269;&#32852;&#21512;&#29983;&#20135;&#20116;&#20195;&#26426;&#21453;&#21046;&#21360;&#24230;&#23041;&#32961;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#26412;&#22303;&#39134;&#26426;&#21644;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#29983;&#20135;&#39046;&#22495;&#23384;&#22312;&#30340;&#24040;&#22823;&#22833;&#36133;&#65292;&#20351;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#20986;&#29616;&#20102;&#24456;&#22823;&#24046;&#36317;&#12290;&#30446;&#21069;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#27491;&#35774;&#27861;&#24357;&#34917;&#22240;&#26080;&#21147;&#29983;&#20135;&#36731;&#22411;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;(LCA)&#32780;&#20986;&#29616;&#30340;&#31354;&#30333;&#12290;&#20854;&#20013;&#21253;&#25324;&#19977;&#20010;&#31561;&#32423;&#30340;&#37319;&#36141;&#12289;&#36141;&#20080;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#20063;&#21487;&#33021;&#30452;&#25509;&#20174;&#32654;&#22269;&#36141;&#20080;&#25112;&#26426;&#31561;&#31561;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#12288;&#32780;&#19988;&#65292;&#26410;&#26469;25&#24180;&#20869;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#25317;&#26377;&#22823;&#37327;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#12290;&#19981;&#36807;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#20891;&#20173;&#20250;&#36965;&#36965;&#39046;&#20808;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#19981;&#20250;&#38754;&#20020;&#26469;&#33258;&#26032;&#24503;&#37324;&#30340;&#23041;&#32961;&#12290;&#32780;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#24050;&#32463;&#27880;&#24847;&#21040;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#25968;&#37327;&#21464;&#21270;&#65292;&#24182;&#19988;&#27491;&#22312;&#37319;&#21462;&#36866;&#24403;&#25514;&#26045;&#24212;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#24773;&#20917;&#12290;
> 
> &#12288;&#25991;&#31456;&#25351;&#20986;&#65292;&#22914;&#26524;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#33021;&#22815;&#29983;&#20135;&#31532;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#20854;&#25152;&#21046;&#36896;&#30340;&#20116;&#20195;&#25112;&#26426;&#30830;&#23454;&#31283;&#23450;&#21487;&#38752;&#65292;&#37027;&#20040;&#21040;2025&#24180;&#26102;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#23558;&#20250;&#25317;&#26377;&#29616;&#24441;&#30340;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;PAK-FA&#25112;&#26426;&#12290;
> 
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no way its says China and Pakistan is actually working on a 5th gen fighter to answer IAF's PAK-FA`!! is that true, or just some smoke to scare the sh1t out of IAF??


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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> no way its says China and Pakistan is actually working on a 5th gen fighter to answer IAF's PAK-FA`!! is that true, or just some smoke to scare the sh1t out of IAF??



This article was written back in December 2010, and 6 months later the big shrimp has confirmed that China and Pakistan have an undergoing 5th gen fighter project which its code name is J-2X.

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## monitor

translation of above article what exactly it tells 
*Pakistan hoped that the joint production with China to counter India's Five machines*
Journal of the United States has called J-20 first flight around the corner captain ultra-high-speed roll 21 m
Recent days, China's major military forum in the spread of the Air Force the next generation of fighter picture

LONDON Dec. 29 news: Pakistan Patriot website posted on December 27 article said that the development of the next decade will focus on all Air Force aircraft used to focus on five generations of stealth technology, the Indian Air Force will have a lot in 25 years with the Russian co- Five aircraft production, which will pose a great threat to Pakistan. To this end, the article lists a number of the Pakistan Air Force may choose to counter the Indian threat measures, including joint design and production with the Chinese fifth-generation fighter machines continue to improve the upgrade Xiaolong JF-17 fighters to be integrated over the next 50 years advanced technology and joint production with the Chinese WS-13 engine for unmanned aircraft to provide a more powerful motivation.

Pakistan hoped that the joint production with China to counter India's threat to the Five Dynasties machine

The article said that the local field of aircraft and engine production there is a huge failure, so that there is a big gap between the Indian Air Force. Currently, the Indian Air Force is trying to compensate for the inability to produce light aircraft (LCA) and appear blank. These include three levels of procurement, purchasing Russian fifth generation fighter, it may be directly purchased aircraft from the United States and so on.

Moreover, the next 25 years, the Indian Air Force will have a large number of fifth-generation fighter. However, the Chinese Air Force will still ahead, but do not face the threat from New Delhi. The Indian Air Force Pakistan Air Force has taken note of the number of changes, and is taking appropriate measures to deal with this situation.

The article points out, if Russia can produce fifth-generation fighter, it produced five generations of aircraft and indeed reliable, then by 2025, the Indian Air Force will have a fleet of Russian PAK-FA fighter.

In response, the Pakistan Air Force developed the following responses: Five fighters began to slowly grasp the technology to be integrated into existing aircraft in; with joint design and construction of China and other fifth-generation fighter; purchase using slightly older technology of the U.S. fighters and with less cost to upgrade these aircraft; and Indonesia, Turkey, the joint development of regional military technology to respond to this threat; use of lower cost approach to the upcoming threat; the use of missiles to deal with this threat; *continue to improve upgrade JF -17 Xiaolong fighters, it can be integrated in the next 50 years of advanced technologies; production on the basis of the F-10B developed from the FC-20C, and joint production with the Chinese J-11; UAV technology will advance to the next level, and the design, production and unmanned aircraft.
*

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## Paan Singh

> *Currently, the Indian Air Force is trying to compensate for the inability to produce light aircraft (LCA) and appear blank. These include three levels of procurement*, purchasing Russian fifth generation fighter, it may be directly purchased aircraft from the United States and so on.



bull crap.......who wrote this article??

i dont want to divert thread but just wanted to quote this..


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## monitor

*Dubai Airshow 2011: Google Earth assists Pakistan Air Force in border operations*


The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was forced to use Google Earth to plan its early missions against militants fighting in the border regions with Afghanistan.

Speaking on the eve of the Dubai Airshow, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleiman, chief of the Pakistan Air Force, told delegates that at the beginning of its counter insurgency operations in the Bajaur Agency region in August 2008, the air force did not have the intelligence-gathering capabilities it needed for detailed mission planning.

As a result, it had to resort to use Google Earth software to plan the missions.

'It was not very useful, but it did give us an aerial view of the villages so we could see their layout,' Suleiman told Shephard at the Dubai International Air Chiefs Conference (DIAC).

'We were able to use the 3D terrain view to allow our pilots to see their entry and escape routes from the target.'

Since then, the PAF has taken delivery of Goodrich DB-110 reconnaissance pods fitted to its fleet of F-16s and a handful of Star Safire III EO/IR turrets, which have been fitted to the noses of C-130 transport aircraft allowing them to be used as a long-endurance ISR platform. 

The aircraft are flown by PAF crews but with the sensor operated by Pakistan Army personnel using a mission system fitted in the cargo hold, rather like that used on the US Marine Corps Harvest Hawk KC-130J.

Suleiman said that the PAF has flown around 650 missions using the Star Safire system on the C-130, adding that the system has been hugely appreciated by ground commanders. There had also been some 500 sorties using the DB-110.

Since the beginning of PAF operations against the militants in the region, the air arm has dropped some 10,600 weapons against 4,600 targets.

During operations in the Swat Valley, which began in May 2009, the PAF dropped 1,700 laser-guided bombs as they attacked militant positions in preparation for the movement of ground forces.


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## rcrmj

Prism said:


> bull crap.......who wrote this article??
> 
> i dont want to divert thread but just wanted to quote this..



seriously you actually thinking LCA is going well and planed`? an mig-21 upgrade took 30 years yet still need direct purchase of parts from foreign countries``and also has LCA done any full-loaded maneuver tests yet?


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## Adios Amigo

Cut it out guys.....you are going off topic!


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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> seriously you actually thinking LCA is going well and planed`? an mig-21 upgrade took 30 years yet still need direct purchase of parts from foreign countries``and also has LCA done any full-loaded maneuver tests yet?



In this coming decade, Pakistan can indigenously produce every part of their aircraft including the engine.

So the Indian members can't troll anymore about how JF-17 is less indigenous than LCA. 

And lets stop right here.

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## Paan Singh

rcrmj said:


> seriously you actually thinking LCA is going well and planed`? an mig-21 upgrade took 30 years yet still need direct purchase of parts from foreign countries``and also has LCA done any full-loaded maneuver tests yet?




and how many times you will post this??and how many times answer will be delivered??

sorry amigo...but this guy deserved reply.


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## rcrmj

Prism said:


> and how many times you will post this??and how many times answer will be delivered??
> 
> sorry amigo...but this guy deserved reply.



that wasnt a question but the reality which most of you deny``

China Pakistan started develop JF-17 in 1998 and took around 10 years to get it into service, so in our point of view (actually from most aviation powers point of view) LCA it is a failed project.

JF-17 now is coming to the second stage where the block-II will improve its capability and combat efficiency dramatically, and it will be delivered within few years time. even its a cheaper plane than F-16s and FC-20 but as Pakistan has the capability to produce it independently which *makes JF-17 more a strategic asset than F-16s and FC-20s*. on the other hand without foreign assistance LCA cannot fly as simple as that

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## ChineseTiger1986

Ask to the Pakistani military insiders here, they may know some first hand information about the WS-13 engine.

According to the Chinese military insiders, WS-13 is going to be fully ready for mass production by 2012.

Lets see if the Pakistani military insiders do have the same information.

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## houshanghai

Interview PAF first JF17's test pilot in Dubai Airshow 2011

chinese link

µÏ°Ýº½Õ¹¿ªÄ» ¡°èÉÁú¡±Õ½»úÁÁÏà -ÔÚÏß¹Û¿´-²¥¿ÍÊÓÆµ-ËÑºüÊÓÆµ

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## Manticore



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## PakShaheen79

Where is complete video of Thunder performance ?


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## MastanKhan

dilpakistani said:


> Don't u guys think 200kg for 70KM range BVR missile is very heavy? means AMRAAM wih 90KM range and better avionics on board is just 150KG!?



Hi,

Oh jeez----you do understand the difference in technology---. Now you know.


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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## marcos98

Nice pics.
BTW, whose flying the JF-17 display routine?


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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99

Xiaolong 10 years or sell 500 aircraft will become the next most popular
2011-11-14 09:20 
Xiaolong upgrade stop: two-seat fighter / trainer aircraft under development
Dubai highlights: Fierce Dragon for the first time in the international air show air show
Dubai Air Show in the aircraft industry products to attract more high-ranking Air Force
Abstract: Ma Zhiping, general manager also mentioned that the article has recently been a senior project, "Fierce Dragon will become the world's next best-selling aircraft," he said confidently: it would be "certain."
&#12288;&#12288;World Wide Web to go to Dubai Independent correspondent Zhang Canadians reported: November 13, 2011, the 12th Dubai International Air Show will be opened in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. In the afternoon the aircraft industry in Pakistan Air Force held a joint Xiaolong fighter promotion, and answered questions from reporters, site promotion and foreign media correspondents gathered, with the Pakistan Air Force Chief of Staff, Admiral Suleiman as saying, no doubt, Xiaolong fighter ( JF-17 "Lightning"), a Dubai air show this "one big star . "


&#12288;&#12288;A reporter asked the Xiaolong aircraft orders, CATIC Ma Zhiping, general manager, said in last year's Farnborough Air Show in England on Xiaolong appearance caused a great deal of international attention. Currently, there are already five more countries are interested in purchasing Xiaolong fighters, as well as the country hoping to send pilots to test drive Xiaolong, flight. Ma always said, I hope the next 10 years, Xiaolong aircraft sales volume reached 300-500.



&#12288;&#12288;Ma Zhiping, general manager also mentioned that the article has recently been a senior project, "Fierce Dragon will become the world's next best-selling aircraft," he said confidently: it would be "certain."


&#12288;&#12288;The opening day of the Dubai Air Show, the model exhibited Xiaolong stand usher in the aircraft industry a lot of the Middle East and African guests, including Secretary of Defense and other senior officials in Tanzania, some African countries have previously purchase Chinese military aircraft experience, they continue the practice procurement Xiaolong may be large, such as Egypt and other countries, which previously has referred to the Western media also great interest in Azerbaijan Xiaolong. In any case, we believe, Xiaolong international arms market, will become the star fighter. &#9733;??10????500? ??????????_??_???


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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99




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## TaimiKhan

nabil_05 said:


> ** SD-10A was supposed to have a range of 90-100 kms, i wonder why it is mentioned 70 for A when the baseline model has 70??*
> 
> * WMD-7 appears in the league of Litenning 2 atleast as from the specs, it possess all features of a 2nd-3rd Gen targeting/ designation pod including automatic damage assessment. Only confusion is whether it works in 8-12 or 3-5 band? The latter is 3rd gen.
> 
> **C802AK seems to be a new deal even for Chinese friends. We did hear about As and KDs but AK? I am telling you, this is a gimmick to confuse masses, it is YJ-83 in the disguise. A hint is the Range (180 km)  *
> 
> * LS-6 is a welcome addition in JFT arsenal. A compact laser guided missile with good accuracy.



May be the SD-10A range as 70KM is under the ideal set of conditions, a specific altitude and at specific aircraft speed. May be the range increases if its launched from a higher altitude or more speed. Thus range is still debatable, plus who knows they for the time being want to keep the 70Km version for export and keep the higher range version for themselves. Plus, the SD-10A specifications as told in the 2008 Zhuhai Air show showed Operational Range as 70KM.

http://cnair.top81.cn/missiles/SD-10A.jpg

As for the C-802AK thingy, the original C-802 version had something close to 120Km range, then came C-802A version with 180KM and the K designation means that its air launcher version of the missile and not land launched version. So, C-802AK means that its the 180Km range missile which is air launched. C-802KD would means its an air launched version and D designates that its for Land Attack purposes, thus with different seeker tech and may be guidance system also differs. So K means its air launched version and D designates Land Attack version and A is the updated version with 180KM.

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## regular

Santro said:


> No coverage for the Thunder?? no video of its display performance?
> The Arabzis have screwed us over again for their white skinned masters?


Hey! white skin looks beautiful and attractive from outside, don't go near it U might get trapped by it too like Arabzis.....


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## AUz

PAF&#39;s JF-17 Thunder geared in Dubai Air Show 2011 - Go Thunder Go!!! - YouTube

Go thunder Go !!!

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## jawadqamar

*PAKISTAN AIR FORCE'S JF-17 THUNDER COMPLETES 10,000 SORTIES
*

Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood informed the media that JF-17 Thunder as already completed 10,000 sorties in Pakistani service. He added that two squadrons of JF-17 are fully active with the air force and third is in process of being equipped with the thunder and it will be activated in the coming months.


*Read more: Pakistan Air Force's JF-17 Thunder Completes 10,000 Sorties ~ Pakistan Military Review*

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## Tempest II

sohailbarki said:


> Awesome F 16 looks like an eagle while performing maneuvers compared to JFT.
> 
> JFT looks like a lazy boy on the stage, not impressive at all.



I agree with you ... ... however I have been thinking and still think it is an illusion - those "smoke-winders" on the F-16 are there for a good reason ... ... we judge speed RELATIVE TO SOMETHING ... ... and that smoke on the F-16 tips does that ... ... with the JFT you only have the sky and the plane itself ... ... difficult for us to have a "feel" of speed. I believe the smoke-winders will improve our PERCEPTION!

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## nomi007

future of jf-17 is bright


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## Usama86

AUz said:


> PAF's JF-17 Thunder geared in Dubai Air Show 2011 - Go Thunder Go!!! - YouTube
> 
> Go thunder Go !!!



This video is from Dubai One, the channel which broadcasted the 1st day of airshow live. They had some good things to say about the Pakistani aircrafts in the show. The guy commentating in arabic is a UAE air force officer and had nice things to say about ur fighters. They were very impressed with the super Mushak. I dont know why all this crap about arabs ignoring us or their love for whiteskin is coming up in this thread. foolish really

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## Qasibr

The F-16's video was much longer, there were times when it was making sharp turns and there were times when it appeared "lazy" as well. Also, it's video was professionally taken with a stabilized camera, most of the earlier vids of the JF17 have the whole frame jittering because it's being taken by a phone cam and the dude's hands are wobbling. And we got to see the F-16 demo from take-off to landing. 

The JF17 demo video was just a tiny snippet at the end compared to the F-16 one, and it did make sharp turns as well. There's this recent Chinese Tv interview where they talked to Pakistani pilots(including one who'd flown Mirages, F-16, F-6, F-7, and the JF17) and they talked about how nimble and manouverable the aircraft was, and how flying it was pure joy.

I remember the Zhuhai airshow where the wobbly cam vids that first came out, of JF17's demo honestly didn't look very impressive. And later on it was learnt that the crowd actually present there was blown away. They left with the impression that the JF17 was a superior aircraft than the J-10, only due to demo manouvers. Captain Khalid Mehmood even went on air and talked about the response of the two aircraft's CAC designers. 

So let's chill out, the bird is pretty good.


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## Usama86

JF-17 will be in the air in about 30 mins time. here is a link of live show on Dubai One


Watch Dubai One Live - Dubai One Free Online Channel | Nowwatchtvlive.Com


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## mjnaushad

AA must be enjoying this


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## SBD-3

TaimiKhan said:


> May be the SD-10A range as 70KM is under the ideal set of conditions, a specific altitude and at specific aircraft speed. May be the range increases if its launched from a higher altitude or more speed. Thus range is still debatable, plus who knows they for the time being want to keep the 70Km version for export and keep the higher range version for themselves. Plus, the SD-10A specifications as told in the 2008 Zhuhai Air show showed Operational Range as 70KM.
> 
> http://cnair.top81.cn/missiles/SD-10A.jpg
> 
> As for the C-802AK thingy, the original C-802 version had something close to 120Km range, then came C-802A version with 180KM and the K designation means that its air launcher version of the missile and not land launched version. So, C-802AK means that its the 180Km range missile which is air launched. C-802KD would means its an air launched version and* D designates that its for Land Attack purposes*, thus with different seeker tech and may be guidance system also differs. So K means its air launched version and D designates Land Attack version and A is the updated version with 180KM.


 
Land Attack or Land Launch?


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## Last Hope

*JF-17 took off *

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

*It's climbing vertically now.*

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

*Flying upside down *

---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------

*Showing the same manovers as first appearance in defense day *

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## Last Hope

*It's supported with RD-93 as the commentary here says!
0.99 Thrust to weight ratio....
Can hold 20,000 Pounds of Weapons in one flight...

It on it's landing gears now..*

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## Al Bhatti

and touch down


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## janu.bravo

anything cool happend? sharp turns? gud maneuvers?


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## Mosamania

everybody is talking about the JF-17 in the Arabic forums. And also the new statements from our new defense chief saying that he will completely rebuild the entire Saudi Military from scratch makes one optimistic of us getting the JF-17 for the CAS rule since the Land Forces are looking to open their own air wing.

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## Crypto

Tempest II said:


> I agree with you ... ... however I have been thinking and still think it is an illusion - those "smoke-winders" on the F-16 are there for a good reason ... ... we judge speed RELATIVE TO SOMETHING ... ... and that smoke on the F-16 tips does that ... ... with the JFT you only have the sky and the plane itself ... ... difficult for us to have a "feel" of speed. I believe the smoke-winders will improve our PERCEPTION!



I second that, notice in the video where engine is emitting smoke - seems quicker. It's not as fast as the viper but not too slow either, PAF should use smoke-winders, i really don't know why they don't.


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## Manticore



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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 PM ----------

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## Manticore



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## Tempest II

Last Hope said:


> *It's supported with RD-93 as the commentary here says!
> 0.99 Thrust to weight ratio....
> Can hold 20,000 Pounds of Weapons in one flight...
> 
> It on it's landing gears now..*



Woul love to watch the video and listen to the commentary. 

In yesterday's the comment was that " ... ... RD-93 ... ... just under 9,000kg of thrust ... ..." I found the "just under" phrase to be too lose! It could mean 8,600kg or 8,950kg. It still least a lot to opinion, so I did not comment on it.


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## Manticore



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## Manticore

after the aircrash i really dont feel like posting /googling airshow pics....

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## unicorn

ANTIBODY said:


> after the aircrash i really dont feel like posting /googling airshow pics....



Me too....

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## farhan_9909

ANTIBODY said:


> after the aircrash i really dont feel like posting /googling airshow pics....



you dont know how sad i am..

just cant watch the pics of the JFT..i have nt yet even watched the video..

just hate watching it


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## Pfpilot

ANTIBODY said:


> after the aircrash i really dont feel like posting /googling airshow pics....



I agree, this is the most excited I had been to see the thunder since the days of its first taxi runs. We really seemed to have learned how to market it better and all the news of weapons integration gave the aircraft the kind of edge that was only seen as potential in the last few airshows. The crash is just depressing, especially in it's timing. Aviation is a risky business, so crashes will happen...but right as we're trying to showcase the aircraft...terrible.


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## unicorn

Pfpilot said:


> I agree, this is the most excited I had been to see the thunder since the days of its first taxi runs. We really seemed to have learned how to market it better and all the news of weapons integration gave the aircraft the kind of edge that was only seen as potential in the last few airshows. The crash is just depressing, especially in it's timing. Aviation is a risky business, so crashes will happen...but right as we're trying to showcase the aircraft...terrible.



Crashing of JF 17 will have zero effect on it's marketing and on it's customer.

It is the death of the pilot which is very very sad.We are using the same ejection seat as that in F35 i.e Martin Baker and it failed.

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## Pfpilot

unicorn said:


> Crashing of JF 17 will have zero effect on it's marketing and on it's customer.
> 
> It is the death of the pilot which is very very sad.We are using the same ejection seat as that in F35 i.e Martin Baker and it failed.



Sorry, should have mentioned it...I agree with that. I was just saying that we have been so focused on the jf-17 the last few days that it's affect is magnified.


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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

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## Xracer

farhan_9909 said:


> you dont know how sad i am..
> 
> just cant watch the pics of the JFT..i have nt yet even watched the video..
> 
> just hate watching it


 
so sad man


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## Manticore



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## Manticore

this forum gets the most hits, eventhough i wasnt feeling like posting, we should provide as much positive exposure to jft as possible -- the pilots are still performing eventhough they knew the pilot shaheed at a personal level--SO do your part and find pictures for publicity

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## Bratva

Will JF-17 be grounded to evaluate if it doesn't got any technical fault


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## jawadqamar

*BLOCK II JF-17 THUNDER TO ENTER INTO PRODUCTION NEXT YEAR
*

The Pakistan Air Force will start receiving the improved version of the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet Block II. The Block II Thunder will include newer and improved capabilities including data link and electronic warfare capabilities aerial refuelling, new radar & avionics. The JF-17 Thunder Block II will also expend its inventory of new generation precision guided weapons including cruise missiles

Read more: Block II JF-17 Thunder To Enter Into Production Next Year ~ Pakistan Military Review

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## abaseen99

JF 17 arriving after rehersing for Dubai Airshow 2011.MOD - YouTube


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## jawadqamar

ANTIBODY said:


> this forum gets the most hits, eventhough i wasnt feeling like posting, we should provide as much positive exposure to jft as possible -- the pilots are still performing eventhough they knew the pilot shaheed at a personal level--SO do your part and find pictures for publicity



Very well said friend.

I think JF-17 Thunder already have very good fan base and it is already getting good coverage in the media. I hope we could also add to that.



mafiya said:


> Will JF-17 be grounded to evaluate if it doesn't got any technical fault



I think it already flown in the air show today after the crash in Pakistan


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## Super Falcon

yaaar koi thunder ki poori video lagaye ga uska bada ahsan hoga dubai airshow wali video full


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## Imran Khan

*full 2 hours plus show time JF-17 started from 27 so on 
*

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## Imran Khan

Super Falcon said:


> yaaar koi thunder ki poori video lagaye ga uska bada ahsan hoga dubai airshow wali video full



laga to di bhai jaan

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## Emmie

^^^ JFT, from 27:50 onward..


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## Last Hope

The newly produced Thunder looks so clean!

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## Xracer

Super Falcon said:


> yaaar koi thunder ki poori video lagaye ga uska bada ahsan hoga dubai airshow wali video full


yeh lo Bhai jaan
F16 and Jf17 Thunder






---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------




Last Hope said:


> The newly produced Thunder looks so clean!


Pak Sar zamin par jo Bana hy yaro

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## DESERT FIGHTER

What? a JFT crashed n pilot martyred? am i hearing this?

Innalilahey wa inna ileyhay rajeoon!

May Allah rest his soul n give patience to his loved ones..ameen!

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## Xracer

can any body tell me why the jf thunder landing gear was on aur euro fighter was oof


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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> *full 2 hours plus show time JF-17 started from 27 so on
> *



I have a question though off topic, I really cant stop myself asking. Why typhoon engine is smoky? From 37:00 onward, EF expelling smoke while maneuvering!!.. EJ200 that smoky??


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## Emmie

Xracer said:


> can any body tell me why the jf thunder landing gear was on aur euro fighter was oof



No, Landing gear were lowered for landing purpose only... Watch the show over again, gear were lowered at the end of its performance.


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## Xracer

my bad man sorry


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## TOPGUN

What is this iam hearing perhaps iam late a thunder has crashed? or is this just plain hateful rubish from haters?


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## SBD-3

Emmie said:


> I have a question though off topic, I really cant stop myself asking. Why typhoon engine is smoky? From 37:00 onward, EF expelling smoke while maneuvering!!.. EJ200 that smoky??


Not a big problem, the smoke turns out when there is a sudden increase in the fuel supply for engine (For reheat or increasing thrust) resulting in unburnt fuel and thus smoke.


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## Xracer

dudes can jf thunder do Cobra maneuver


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## Raftar

yara ARBIAYAN DA ITNA GUSSA JF-17 TEY??????  JAHAZEY DA NAAM HI PUTAH PARDITA?? @33:59


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## Xracer

TOPGUN said:


> What is this iam hearing perhaps iam late a thunder has crashed? or is this just plain hateful rubish from haters?


it has Crashed Dude so sad we lost a pilot and an aircraft


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## SBD-3

TOPGUN said:


> What is this iam hearing perhaps iam late a thunder has crashed? or is this just plain hateful rubish from haters?


Nop, the news is true....A JFT crashed today, the initial response was non ejection, but official statement says that pilot was though able to eject, but his chute failed to open and thus we lost one of the pioneers of JFT program..RIP


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## Xracer

TOPgun Check this
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/3718-notify-paf-aircraft-crashes-80.html

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## SBD-3

Xracer said:


> dudes can jf thunder do Cobra maneuver


Doesn't need to....While cobra is a big attraction at the airshow, but it has little significance in actual combat scenario. (Unless you're playing HAWX or Over G Fighters)


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## Xracer

Raftar said:


> yara ARBIAYAN DA ITNA GUSSA JF-17 TEY??????  JAHAZEY DA NAAM HI PUTAH PARDITA?? @33:59


Noise Thunder Aawaz toh Pagal ho gay nay


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## Emmie

hasnain0099 said:


> Not a big problem, the smoke turns out when there is a sudden increase in the fuel supply for engine (For reheat or increasing thrust) resulting in unburnt fuel and thus smoke.



Yes sir little bit of smoke is not a big deal.. I don't know why people criticise JFT for this, especially Indian fellas.


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## Xracer

hasnain0099 said:


> Doesn't need to....While cobra is a big attraction at the airshow, but it has little significance in actual combat scenario. (Unless you're playing HAWX or Over G Fighters)


I know Yar asay hi poch raha tha what will happen if our pilot do cobra maneuver


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## Emmie

Xracer said:


> I know Yar asay hi poch raha tha what will happen if our pilot do cobra maneuver



Frankly speaking, NO.... JFT cant do cobra maneuver.. TVC is required.

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## TOPGUN

Guys i have just checked very sad news indeed RIP to the pilot and may ALLAH ease his famlies pain very sad .


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## Xracer

Emmie said:


> Frankly speaking, NO.... JFT cant do cobra maneuver.. TVC is required.


Dude TVC please?


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## Emmie

Xracer said:


> Dude TVC please?



Thrust vector control..

Read this...
Thrust vectoring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This will help you understand Supermaneuverability...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermaneuverability

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## Raftar

hahahah  @ 1:09:07

I´m back major........
Do you miss me??
Maj: Noooooo


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## Xracer

why thunder dont have TVC or there is an Plane for this read Thrust vectoring is Imp

---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------




Raftar said:


> : hahahah  @ 1:09:07
> 
> I´m back major........
> Do you miss me??
> Maj: Noooooo


LOL

---------- Post added at 11:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------

why thunder dont have TVC or there is an Plane for this

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------

anyone plZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Xracer

man Supermashak can killer maneuvers from 1:10:00


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## Emmie

Xracer said:


> why thunder dont have TVC or there is an Plane for this read Thrust vectoring is Imp




TVC engines are costly and cost factor counts much in JFT project.. Moreover TVC is no good in BVR engagement, it helps in dogfights scenario... JFT nullifys TVC capability of its opponent by the its ability of BVR engagement..

According to matter available on internet, there are plans for TVC tech in JFT.. 

Please post your queries in JFT related threads..

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## Xracer

Emmie said:


> TVC engines are costly and cost factor counts much in JFT project.. Moreover TVC is no good in BVR engagement, it helps in dogfights scenario... JFT nullifys TVC capability of its opponent by the its ability of BVR engagement..
> 
> According to matter available on internet, there are plans for TVC tech in JFT..
> 
> Please post your queries in JFT related threads..


Thanks Bro now back to tha topic sir


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## SBD-3

Emmie said:


> Frankly speaking, NO.... JFT cant do cobra maneuver.. TVC is required.


Mig-29 can perform cobra, SU-27 can perform cobra.....TVC is not a necessity, though it helps a lot in faster recovery of aircraft from cobra which is the most important thing.

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## Xracer

hasnain0099 said:


> Mig-29 can perform cobra, SU-27 can perform cobra.....TVC is not a necessity, though it helps a lot in faster recovery of aircraft from cobra which is the most important thing.


but Emmie said Tvc is required and yes it is important thing


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## SBD-3

Xracer said:


> I know Yar asay hi poch raha tha what will happen if our pilot do cobra maneuver


The crowd will clap and posters will say "extreme maneuvers yaar!".

---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------




Xracer said:


> but Emmie said Tvc is required and yes it is important thing


In recovery, but not necessarily for entering in cobra....


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## Xracer

hasnain0099 said:


> The crowd will clap and posters will say "extreme maneuvers yaar!".


you have taken my words man love you

---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 PM ----------




hasnain0099 said:


> In recovery, but not necessarily for entering in cobra....


 so thunder can do cobra if tha pilot has guts


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## SBD-3

Xracer said:


> you have taken my words man love you
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 PM ----------
> 
> 
> so thunder can do cobra if tha pilot has guts


It should be able to, but how smooth and how fast will it be able to recover, this is the key question.


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## Xracer

hasnain0099 said:


> It should be able to, but how smooth and how fast will it be able to recover, this is the key question.


yar some budy should do it.the best way to find out how much time will it take to recover


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## Emmie

hasnain0099 said:


> Mig-29 can perform cobra, SU-27 can perform cobra.....TVC is not a necessity, *though it helps a lot in faster recovery of aircraft from cobra which is the most important thing*.



That bold part is my answer, you got to tackle "g" that could be upto 15.. 

Kindly keep that in mind I was answering to a guy who know nothing about TVC and stuff.


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## Xracer

Emmie said:


> Kindly keep that in mind I was answering to a guy who know nothing about TVC and stuff.


and i know this is your greatness Bro


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## SBD-3

ANTIBODY said:


>


Wing Commander Ronald's Aircraft, Oh i Remember him, he was also in Turkey with that an interesting aircraft on his name badge....


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## shbaziz

So now u ppl have seen complete performance of JFT.. whats ur assessment.. I feel some turns were more sharp as compared to those in previous performance


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## Xracer

shbaziz said:


> So now u ppl have seen complete performance of JFT.. whats ur assessment.. I feel some turns were more sharp as compared to those in previous performance


yes you are right we will more sharp turn when block2 will come


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## abaseen99




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## krash

Imran Khan said:


> *full 2 hours plus show time JF-17 started from 27 so on
> *


 
Am I the only one who noticed that there was no chute deployed by the Thunder after landing.....? Check 35:48 onward.

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## dilpakistani

not even F-16 which landed before it!!!


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## agentny17

Does anyone have more information about this ? Which block is Egypt interested in ? how many Jet ? When will Egypt aquire them ?
Egyptian Air Force 'Very Interested' in the JF-17 Thunder: EFE Air Chief ~ Pakistan Military Review


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## krash

dilpakistani said:


> not even F-16 which landed before it!!!



Is that sarcasm I detect? F-16s dont need it, they are very rarely ever seen deploying their chutes.The Thunder on the other hand has always been seen deploying the chute after landing much like all the other Chinese aircraft.


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## Imran Khan

agentny17 said:


> Does anyone have more information about this ? Which block is Egypt interested in ? how many Jet ? When will Egypt aquire them ?
> Egyptian Air Force 'Very Interested' in the JF-17 Thunder: EFE Air Chief ~ Pakistan Military Review



yes turbine.com news posted this news yesterday and many others sources which cover story of price reduce of jf-17

Pakistan offers cut-price JF17 fighter jet at Dubai Air Show &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## DESERT FIGHTER

agentny17 said:


> Does anyone have more information about this ? Which block is Egypt interested in ? how many Jet ? When will Egypt aquire them ?
> Egyptian Air Force 'Very Interested' in the JF-17 Thunder: EFE Air Chief ~ Pakistan Military Review



Probably Blk-II with AESA,FLIR,IRST,HMS n other goodies... and rumours suggest egypt is negotiating for a production or assembly line...

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## Imran Khan

krash said:


> Am I the only one who noticed that there was no chute deployed by the Thunder after landing.....? Check 35:48 onward.



it was not needed dear why he open it runway was too long empty and he land smooth


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## Xracer

Static Display of JFT-17 at Dubai Airshow 2011 part 1

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## Xracer

Static Display of JFT-17 at Dubai Airshow 2011 part 2

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## Bukhari.syed

A powerful show from Pakistan...


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## krash

Imran Khan said:


> it was not needed dear why he open it runway was too long empty and he land smooth



Sir the landings were smooth and the runways were long before as well. I first thought that it might have to do with the clean configuration but in the pic below the bird is clean as well:








ps: I might be looking too much into it though.

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## shbaziz

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> rumours suggest egypt is negotiating for a production or assembly line...



No way, even the major overhaul of K-8Es is done by Pakistanis... They simply cant handle the technology of a 4th gen fighter.


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## Super Falcon

so it means that UAe are also considering Typhoon as said in video


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## agentny17

shbaziz said:


> No way, even the major overhaul of K-8Es is done by Pakistanis... They simply cant handle the technology of a 4th gen fighter.


Are you sure ?


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## shbaziz

agentny17 said:


> Are you sure ?



Well my friend i ll be glad if I am wrong!!! but its true that all the major overhauls if K-8Es are done by Pakistan.... and to acquire expertise for ToT of JF-17 will take long time.


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## Manticore



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## krash

shbaziz said:


> No way, even the major overhaul of K-8Es is done by Pakistanis... They simply cant handle the technology of a 4th gen fighter.





agentny17 said:


> Are you sure ?



I disagree. There is no such problem in setting up a production or assembly line in Egypt. There will be Pakistani and Chinese personnel stationed there in such a facility who would train, guide and help the Egyptians until they can do it themselves. I dont see complete production happening in Egypt 1) due to safeguarding whatever important secrets are there in the bird and 2) achieving complete production would take a lot of time and still some manufacturing capabilities needed for producing certain parts would just not be there (as is the case in Pakistan too right now). Setting up an assembly line will not be that big a pickle. 

What I see is that an assembly line will be set up there and in the beginning kits would be sent to Egypt for assembly. Then as time would progress production of many non-critical parts would start in Egypt with the critical parts still being produced and sent from Pakistan and China for final assembly.

ps: Overhauling is different and more tedious than assembling kits. And also they can handle any technology as long as they are taught well, anyone can. Learning and doing it all by yourself is whats difficult.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Nabil bro would know more abt it... He said somethin abt egypt buyin the jet... Nabil bhai.. i would like to hear ur word on it!


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## Tempest II

The F-16 does a 360 degree turn from 23:05 to about 23:27 = 22 seconds. The JF-17 does its 360 from 28:38 to about 28:50 = 22 seconds.

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## Tempest II

shbaziz said:


> No way, even the major overhaul of K-8Es is done by Pakistanis... They simply cant handle the technology of a 4th gen fighter.



Is it not that Kamra decided to build a JF-17 production line but not a K-8? If you use the same logic, you should have concluded that Pakistan cannot build the JF-17 because they do not build the K-8.


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## somebozo

The product in egypt has been mulled as they signed up for more F-16


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## mikkix

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-crashed-attock-pilot-killed.html#post2288678

ATTOCK: A Pakistan Air Force (PAF) JF17 jet crashed into Mullah Mansoor mountain in Attock on Monday. The jet was on a routine operational training mission when it crashed, killing the pilot on board.

Rescue teams found the body of Squadron Leader Mohammad Hussain three kilometers from the crash site.

Media reports had earlier stated that the pilot was safe after the jet had crashed on Mullah Mansoor mountains near Mansar Town after taking off from Kamra Airbase.

A regimental centre of the Pakistan Army known as AK Regimental Center is also located at Mansar.

The authorities have so far not given the reason for the crash.

PAF authorities dispatched helicopters and rescue teams to the crash site. The fire was put out by locals and the rescue teams.

Police have cordoned off the area and rescue teams have launched an operation to clear the debris.

An investigation board has been set up to probe the matter.

PAF JF17 aircraft crashes in Attock &#8211; The Express Tribune


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## agentny17

shbaziz said:


> Well my friend i ll be glad if I am wrong!!! but its true that all the major overhauls if K-8Es are done by Pakistan.... and to acquire expertise for ToT of JF-17 will take long time.


Egypt has K-8 assembly line, if you did not know this already.

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## agentny17

RaptorRX707 said:


> Great news, Arab should go for more F-16s.
> 
> Egypt came out a big winner in the deal for Ilan Grapel: the US will sell Cairo the F-16 fighter, while Israel frees 25 prisoners.
> US Sells F-16s to Egypt in Grapel Deal - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News
> 
> Oc 2011- Egypt has come out the big winner in negotiations for the release of U.S.-Israeli national Ilan Grapel, held prisoner by Cairo since June 12 after he inadvertently became caught up in the melee of Tahrir Square's Arab Spring uprising.
> 
> Delicate diplomatic wrangling by Israeli and American negotiators over the past five months managed to reduce the charge of espionage by Egyptian authorities down to "incitement" -- *but demands for the release of Egyptian prisoners in exchange for Grapel's freedom resulted in both Israel and the United States being forced to fold.*
> 
> On Israel's side 25 Egyptian prisoners, including three minors, will be taken to the Taba Crossing by 1:00 p.m. today (Thursday) to be transferred into Egyptian custody in exchange for the third-year Emory College law student.
> 
> *But according to Egyptian military expert General Sameh Sayf al-Yazal, the United States has agreed to a much bigger deal: America will sell its much-acclaimed F-16 fighter to Cairo.*
> 
> Yazal told the Bethlehem-based Ma'an news agency early Thursday that the U.S. agreed to the price during negotiations for Ilan's release -- a deal that had been rejected by Washington during the Mubarak years in order to maintain the balance of military power in the region.
> 
> Israel is being seen as having been the main obstacle to the deal in the past however, having objected to the U.S. selling the F-16 to Egypt because it would equalize Cairo's aerial capabilities with those of the IAF.
> 
> However, Israel's resistance to the sale has since diminished due to the development of the F-35, which Israel is set to receive within the next five years, and which will once again upgrade the IAF's regional military superiority.


Egypt has 220+ F-16s already, i don't see any reason why Israel would pressure the US not to give us more, plus the US embassy in Egypt denied all of that stuff Statement on the Release of Ilan Grapel | EMBASSY OF THE UNITED STATES CAIRO, EGYPT

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## Desert Fox

shbaziz said:


> Well my friend i ll be glad if I am wrong!!! but its true that all the major overhauls if K-8Es are done by Pakistan.... and to acquire expertise for ToT of JF-17 will take long time.



Among the many things that we Pakistanis should avoid is arrogance and too much pride. If Egypt is assembling K8-E's on their own then is that not something to be proud of? And we should keep in mind that because of reliable allies like China, and above all because of the will of God, Pakistan is able to produce its own fighter jet, otherwise we too didn't have this capability.

If anything, i think it will be China who will be providing the assistance to Egypt with regards to Transfer of Tech.

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## skybolt

*Pak offers discounted JF-17 fighter jet*

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## agentny17

SilentNinja said:


> Among the many things that we Pakistanis should avoid is arrogance and too much pride. If Egypt is assembling K8-E's on their own then is that not something to be proud of? And we should keep in mind that because of reliable allies like China, and above all because of the will of God, Pakistan is able to produce its own fighter jet, otherwise we too didn't have this capability.
> 
> If anything, i think it will be China who will be providing the assistance to Egypt with regards to Transfer of Tech.
> 
> *Long Live National Socialism!!*


Its all good, Egyptians are kinda arrogant too, almost everybody is. Sometimes i rather not say anthing so i don't sound arrogant so i don't give the wrong message about Egyptians and Egypt. I believe in building bridges between people, and looking for what we have in common, not what we disagree on or could fight about, i am too old for that, lol.... I really believe that we as brothers should work together, if we want to develop. Countries like Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. ect.. should always work together, or we will always stay "weak". 
I also believe that China and Pakistan will provide the assistance to Egypt regarding TOT.

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## skybolt

DUBAI: China, Pakistan tout affordability of JF-17

*Five countries in the Middle East are evaluating the JF-17 as an affordable replacement fighter *alongside China's Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).

The sales opportunities for the programme were described by the head of the Pakistan air force, Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar Suleman. He was speaking at a press briefing hosted by the PAF and the China Aviation Technology/Import-Export Corporation (CATIC), the government-owned company responsible for Beijing's aerospace defence exports.

He added that the five countries could send pilots to Pakistan to evaluate the single-engine fighter.

He also said he visited the PLAAF in China recently, where he discussed the programme with his Chinese counterparts.






*It has long been known that the PLAAF has followed the JF-17 programme closely, but most industry observers have shared the view that it prefers to focus on replacing older aircraft with the J-10A, J-10B and Shenyang J-11*.

ACM Suleman and the other presenters placed great emphasis on their claims about the JF-17's affordability. They claim the aircraft is two to three times cheaper than rivals on a flyaway basis, and that the aircraft is also inexpensive to support.

Separately, PAF Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood, deputy chief project director (operations) for the JF-17 programme, said there is a potential market of around 4,000-5,000 aircraft as air forces seek to replace Mikoyan MiG-21s, MiG-23s, MiG-29s and Northrop F-5s.

"There is no plane that gives this much capability at this cost," added Air Cdre Mahmood.

He said that in PAF service the aircraft has completed 10,000 sorties. The PAF has two active squadrons of 16-18 aircraft each, with the third squadron to be activated in the coming months. The PAF has confirmed it will buy 150 aircraft, but this could run to 250.

He said about half of the airframe and more than half of the avionics are produced in Pakistan.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

agentny17 said:


> Its all good, Egyptians are kinda arrogant too, almost everybody is. Sometimes i rather not say anthing so i don't sound arrogant so i don't give the wrong message about Egyptians and Egypt. I believe in building bridges between people, and looking for what we have in common, not what we disagree on or could fight about, i am too old for that, lol.... I really believe that we as brothers should work together, if we want to develop. Countries like Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. ect.. should always work together, or we will always stay "weak".
> I also believe that China and Pakistan will provide the assistance to Egypt regarding TOT.



We also want to see your country strong...Abt ToT.. yes brother... as designers we can both help u guys with ToT.

Anyways God bless u n ur nation....and pray for our country aswell.. as Sqd Ldr Hussien who embraced martyrdom today.

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## agentny17

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> We also want to see your country strong...Abt ToT.. yes brother... as designers we can both help u guys with ToT.
> 
> Anyways God bless u n ur nation....and pray for our country aswell.. as Sqd Ldr Hussien who embraced martyrdom today.


God bless Pakistan and its people. God bless Sqd Ldr Hussien, and hope he is in "jennah" now.

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## skybolt




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## skybolt




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## Kompromat

Mosamania said:


> everybody is talking about the JF-17 in the Arabic forums. And also the new statements from our new defense chief saying that he will completely rebuild the entire Saudi Military from scratch makes one optimistic of us getting the JF-17 for the CAS rule since the Land Forces are looking to open their own air wing.



Very very doubtful , specially when better options are available to new arm of the SLF.


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## Tempest II

agentny17 said:


> Egypt has 220+ F-16s already, i don't see any reason why Israel would pressure the US not to give us more, plus the US embassy in Egypt denied all of that stuff Statement on the Release of Ilan Grapel | EMBASSY OF THE UNITED STATES CAIRO, EGYPT



What are the capabilities of your current F-16? ... ... Seems Egypt has 20 Block 52. Israel has 102 of the same block. Even if we assume the 52 have the same capability, the numbers favour Israel AND THERE IS YOUR REASON WHY THEY COULD REFUSE TO SELL YOU MORE. I am not say they refused, I am saying I can see a reason why the could refuse.

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## VelocuR

Tempest II said:


> What are the capabilities of your current F-16? ... ... Seems Egypt has 20 Block 52. Israel has 102 of the same block. Even if we assume the 52 have the same capability, the numbers favour Israel AND THERE IS YOUR REASON WHY THEY COULD REFUSE TO SELL YOU MORE. I am not say they refused, I am saying I can see a reason why the could refuse.



Not forget, Egyptian 220 F-16s without BVRs, Israel easily to destroy them. US know it very well and played with Egypt for long times. 
They will miss opportunity JF-17 Block 2 including everythings.


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## agentny17

Tempest II said:


> What are the capabilities of your current F-16? ... ... Seems Egypt has 20 Block 52. Israel has 102 of the same block. Even if we assume the 52 have the same capability, the numbers favour Israel AND THERE IS YOUR REASON WHY THEY COULD REFUSE TO SELL YOU MORE. I am not say they refused, I am saying I can see a reason why the could refuse.


True, but no body knows ... Israel F-16s are far more superior than Egypts or any other countries F-16s as far as i know.


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## Dazzler

Very good display of agility by JFT but only for those who understand the word, not those who consider quick barrel roles, vertical climb as agility. The presenter was impressed when he called it very agile aircraft. By the way, the F-16 and 15 seem quick because they push full afterburner while maneuvering whereas JFt does not, still its agility is remarkable. Notice EF smoke which is due to half burn fuel not because of dirty fuel. Same goes for JFT.

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## agentny17

RaptorRX707 said:


> Not forget, Egyptian 220 F-16s without BVRs, Israel easily to destroy them. US know it very well and played with Egypt for long times.
> They will miss opportunity JF-17 Block 2 including everythings.


I can not say easily, but it is a huge advantage for Israel. Egypt is restricted by the US to aquire aim-120 unless they sign some kind of agreement that the Egyptian Army doesn't want to sign for some reason. I don't recall the agreement at this moment, but i know India refused to sign it too.


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## Manticore



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## VelocuR

agentny17 said:


> I can not say easily, but it is a huge advantage for Israel. Egypt is restricted by the US to aquire aim-120 unless they sign some kind of agreement that the Egyptian Army doesn't want to sign for some reason. I don't recall the agreement at this moment, but* i know India refused to sign it too.*



Incorrect, India doesn't have F-16s vice versa and didn't choose MMRCA F-16s bids, currently they use Russian jets. Egypt refused to sign CISMOA agreements and participate to use against Iran wars.



> Both Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Sami Anan and Air Marshal Reda will express concern over releasability issues and frustration with Egypt&#8217;s inability to procure restricted weapons systems. *Some systems are not releasable because of Egyptian refusal to sign the necessary agreement (CISMOA) providing end-use assurances and ensuring proper protection of certain U.S. origin technology. *Releasability is of special concern to the EAF as they prepare to purchase 24 F-16 aircraft that will require a costly retrofit with less-advanced weapons systems. Since 2006, the Department of State has notified Congress of six potential end-use violations by the Egyptian military. We are currently investigating two additional cases, one involving the visit of a Chinese military official to an F-16 facility on an Egyptian Air Force base. Other systems are either not releasable to any country or denied for political reasons, mainly due to concerns regarding Israel&#8217;s Qualitative Military Edge (QME). We should stress that decisions to release advanced weapons system are made on a country-by-country basis, but signing a CISMOA and expanding cooperation on current regional threats would be welcomed steps to our dialogue on releasability.&#8221;

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## agentny17

RaptorRX707 said:


> Incorrect, India doesn't have F-16s vice versa and didn't choose MMRCA F-16s bids, currently they use Russian jets. Egypt refused to sign CISMOA agreements and participate to use against Iran wars.


I wasn't saying India has F-16s, i was saying that Egypt was rejected Aim-120 because they refused to sign the agreement(CISMOA), and because i forgot the name of the agreement i said it is the same agreement India refused to sign. You just told me the agreement name, so thank you

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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

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## blain2

agentny17 said:


> I wasn't saying India has F-16s, i was saying that Egypt was rejected Aim-120 because they refused to sign the agreement(CISMOA), and because i forgot the name of the agreement i said it is the same agreement India refused to sign. You just told me the agreement name, so thank you



Although you may know better but I do not think the AIM-120 clearance for Egypt was tied to the signing of CISMOA. It had more to do with a lack of clearance to sell the AMRAAMs to Egypt due to the pressure applied by Israel's friends in the US. 

The EAF with a BVR capability in the AMRAAM class would seriously erode Israeli edge in the BVR arena. At least all of my own readings have been along this line instead of the CISMOA angle.

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## agentny17

blain2 said:


> Although you may know better but I do not think the AIM-120 clearance for Egypt was tied to the signing of CISMOA. It had more to do with a lack of clearance to sell the AMRAAMs to Egypt due to the pressure applied by Israel's friends in the US.
> 
> The EAF with a BVR capability in the AMRAAM class would seriously erode Israeli edge in the BVR arena. At least all of my own readings have been along this line instead of the CISMOA angle.


Might be true, but i really don't know!! When you buy your arms from your enemy's best friend, it is hard to be picky .


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## blain2

shbaziz said:


> No way, even the major overhaul of K-8Es is done by Pakistanis... They simply cant handle the technology of a 4th gen fighter.



This is not true. Egyptians have a pretty significant infrastructure set up and they operate with the Chinese hardware under the same understanding as Pakistan, which is to focus on local assembly and maintenance of equipment. PAC has not done any work for Egyptian Air Force in the recent years at least, unless you meant that Pakistani officials support these aircraft in Egypt, which is even less likely.

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## houshanghai

link;

??????????_??_???

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## shbaziz

Tempest II said:


> Is it not that Kamra decided to build a JF-17 production line but not a K-8? If you use the same logic, you should have concluded that Pakistan cannot build the JF-17 because they do not build the K-8.



Pakistan has had excellent experience in maintaining and upgrading western equipment... Building a K-8 or purchasing it is a matter of feasibility and for a make-or-buy compromise.


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## Manticore



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## shbaziz

SilentNinja said:


> Among the many things that we Pakistanis should avoid is arrogance and too much pride. If Egypt is assembling K8-E's on their own then is that not something to be proud of? And we should keep in mind that because of reliable allies like China, and above all because of the will of God, Pakistan is able to produce its own fighter jet, otherwise we too didn't have this capability.
> 
> If anything, i think it will be China who will be providing the assistance to Egypt with regards to Transfer of Tech.
> 
> *Long Live National Socialism!!*



Buddy i said it before and i say again that i ll be very glad if Egypt gets and successfully handles ToT. Its nothing about arrogance.... well man, it was assessment of quite an expert which i quoted. no offence


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## Manticore



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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 03:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 AM ----------










---------- Post added at 03:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 AM ----------

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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## MZUBAIR

ANTIBODY said:


> [/COLOR]



Serial Num :- 11-134,
So its clear we have atleast 34 and *3 SQD,s of JF17 in our fleet.*


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## MZUBAIR

ANTIBODY said:


>


 
C802AK means its Anti Ship missile,

*Range:-180KM*
Speed :- 0.9 Mach
Flight altitude :- 3-5 m (attacking); 5-7 m (cruising)

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## SBD-3

MZUBAIR said:


> Serial Num :- 11-134,
> So its clear we have atleast 34 and *3 SQD,s of JF17 in our fleet.*


I think 34 marks the completion of second squad as AFAIK 18 JFTs make up each squad, one lost JFT is also to be made up for. The current production would be for third one.


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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99



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## TARIQ BN ZIYAAD

agentny17 said:


> Its all good, Egyptians are kinda arrogant too, almost everybody is. Sometimes i rather not say anthing so i don't sound arrogant so i don't give the wrong message about Egyptians and Egypt. I believe in building bridges between people, and looking for what we have in common, not what we disagree on or could fight about, i am too old for that, lol.... I really believe that we as brothers should work together, if we want to develop. Countries like Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. ect.. should always work together, or we will always stay "weak".
> I also believe that China and Pakistan will provide the assistance to Egypt regarding TOT.



Assalam alaikum

Nice words

SilentNinja bhai , very well said

NO NEED TO ADD MORE

TARIQ

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## hatf IX

agentny17 said:


> Its all good, Egyptians are kinda arrogant too, almost everybody is. Sometimes i rather not say anthing so i don't sound arrogant so i don't give the wrong message about Egyptians and Egypt. I believe in building bridges between people, and looking for what we have in common, not what we disagree on or could fight about, i am too old for that, lol.... I really believe that we as brothers should work together, if we want to develop. Countries like Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. ect.. should always work together, or we will always stay "weak".
> I also believe that China and Pakistan will provide the assistance to Egypt regarding TOT.


nice words . . . . loved it . . . that the countries mentioned above come close and work togather . . .

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## Tempest II

shbaziz said:


> Pakistan has had excellent experience in maintaining and upgrading western equipment... Building a K-8 or purchasing it is a matter of feasibility and for a make-or-buy compromise.


I believe for the same reasons Egypt limited what it will do in-house for the K-8s and what it will send to Kamra.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Can't wait to see JF-17 block II perform in the air show of the future.

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## abaseen99




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## abaseen99



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## Manticore



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## shbaziz

ANTIBODY said:


>



What is your opinion about JFT's performance in Dubai  I think performance was better as compared to previous air shows. Am i rite?


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## PakShaheen79

NTDV video on JF-17 in Daubai Air Show 2011

Pak offers discounted JF-17 fighter jet


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## Edevelop

Who is Wg CDR Ronald? it says near the glass cockpit at 0:54. His name sounds non-Pakistani. Either he is a Pakistani Christian flying the JFT or a non-Pakistani.


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## regular

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Can't wait to see JF-17 block II perform as the air show in the future.


That will be marvellous to see the world stunned while watching at it....


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## Abu Zolfiqar

cb4 said:


> Who is Wg CDR Ronald? it says near the glass cockpit at 0:54. His name sounds non-Pakistani. Either he is a Pakistani Christian flying the JFT or a non-Pakistani.



Wing Commander Ronald Felix is a Pakistani Christian; a skilled and talented test pilot on the JF-17 Thunder since 2010

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## Areesh

cb4 said:


> Who is Wg CDR Ronald? it says near the glass cockpit at 0:54. His name sounds non-Pakistani. Either he is a Pakistani Christian flying the JFT or a non-Pakistani.



He is a Pakistani christian. One of the pioneer pilots of JFT.

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## Doctor09




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## houshanghai

Korean delegation were asking PAF about JFT.It seems like they are deeply concerned for JFT at Dubai airshow.
Can they be worrying about that two-seater version JFT will grab a share of the Korean T50's market in future???

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## Qasibr

The Korean F/A-50 enjoys the full benefits of involving Uncle Sam in it's development...

They wanted to go for an European Vixen AESA radar, and the US forced them to choose an inferior Israeli radar. They wanted the EJ-200 turbofan, and had to go with the GE-404 which offers inferior thrust and is an older design. And by contract, their F/A-50's performance characteristics cannot exceed the F-16s that they fly. I don't think they'll be able to sell their aircraft to many of the countries they'd want because of US restrictions. Unless Uncle Sam decides to ease up on sales to hurt the Chinese prospects in aircraft sales. Like they were willing to sell F-5s to countries they didn't want to sell F-15s and F-16s to in the 80's. I remember a senior minister of their government even publically saying they regret asking the US for help. They aren't asking the US for any involvement in their more advanced 5th Gen design.

The only major hurdle in JF-17 sales is the Russian engine. Russia would not be keen to see the JF17 compete with Russian aircraft in various international tenders. Senior officials have already gone public in Russia saying they should block RD93 sales, as this aircraft's performance is "extremely close" to a MiG-29's but at a lesser price.

Luckily, the Chinese and even the Ukranians are developing engines in this class. As Ukraine has alot of aged aircraft, in would be interesting to see if they would like to fly the JF-17 with their own AI-222 engine. They have openly expressed their hope their newer AI-222 designs could target the JF17 aircraft.

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## monitor

houshanghai said:


> Korean delegation were asking PAF about JFT.It seems like they are deeply concerned for JFT at Dubai airshow.
> Can they be worrying about that two-seater version JFT will grab a share of the Korean T50's market in future???


T-50 were developed as a trainer where JFT was as fighter ,so when it will offer as a light wight fighter cum trainer to the high end customer certainly it can attract more customer.

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## SEAL

Performance at Dubai airshow is good as compare to Airshow China and Turkey.


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## Windjammer

doctor09 said:


>



Check out @ 0.53.....Wing Commander Ronald. Seems a Christian pilot has excelled on the JF-17. !!


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## Dazzler

agreed, to such an extent that he has his own JFt now.

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## mjnaushad

Windjammer said:


> Check out @ 0.53.....Wing Commander Ronald. Seems a Christian pilot has excelled on the JF-17. !!



*Sarcasm on
What are you talking about... Minorities are crushed by Radical muslims in Pakistan.... They cant get any jobs... And they dont have any rights 

*Sarcasm off

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## Dazzler

i have my fingers crossed folks as there are some serious negotiations going on for an export order, besides Egypt!

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## Windjammer

nabil_05 said:


> agreed, to such an extent that he has his own JFt now.



Must be a great feeling reading your name before climbing into the cockpit. 




mjnaushad said:


> *Sarcasm on
> What are you talking about... Minorities are crushed by Radical muslims in Pakistan.... They cant get any jobs... And they dont have any rights
> 
> *Sarcasm off


Yea, too many fundas in the PAF, hence, some minorities inducted to de-radicalise these culprits.

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## LKJH52094

Must be a very sensational scene


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## Manticore

shbaziz said:


> What is your opinion about JFT's performance in Dubai  I think performance was better as compared to previous air shows. Am i rite?



in this airshow thay had cleared some distant area for the display, the euorofighter and jft got camoflaged in the skies-- but a good job by the pilots

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## Windjammer

nabil_05 said:


> i have my fingers crossed folks as there are some serious negotiations going on for an export order, besides Egypt!



Yea dude, we need an ice breaker and the ball will start rolling.
I see Khalid Mehmood is leading the team.......F-16 veteran with some Afghan kills under his belt.


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## Manticore

houshanghai said:


> Korean delegation were asking PAF about JFT.It seems like they are deeply concerned for JFT at Dubai airshow.
> Can they be worrying about that two-seater version JFT will grab a share of the Korean T50's market in future???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G]



they seriously think the LIFT/light attack varient can take on jft- jft, which was envisioned as a fighter right from the table , rather being transitioned from a trainer

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## Manticore

[ 15 Nov 2011 10:53 ]
Baku. Rashad Suleymanov &#8211; APA. Azerbaijan shows interest in JF-17 Thunder combat aircrafts jointly produced by Pakistan and China and announced its intention to purchase aircrafts of this type, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex - PAC, which displayed its products in Dubai Airshow-2011 in UAE, told APA.

JF-17 Thunder showed exemplary flights over the Dubai airport within the air show. Members of the Azerbaijani delegation also watched the flights.

Reminding about the discussions held with Azerbaijan up to now, the company officials said that the discussions have not entered the phase of purchase and sale yet. Now the company is executing the orders of the Pakistan&#8217;s Air Forces, the export to Azerbaijan can be realized in the nearest years. The sides determined the annual amount of the order.

The company officials said that Pakistan and Azerbaijan has high level relations. Islamabad supports Baku&#8217;s positions and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and has rendered military assistance to Azerbaijan since the very beginning. Taking these relations into consideration, there will be no problems in sale of aircrafts to Azerbaijan.

According to company&#8217;s representatives, within Pakistan-China cooperation, the production of Block-2 version of JF-17 Thunder aircrafts will be started. This model will be provided with the newest e-war system, additional weapons. Besides, two-pilot model of the aircraft is being developed.
http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=159459

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## SBD-3

houshanghai said:


> Korean delegation were asking PAF about JFT.It seems like they are deeply concerned for JFT at Dubai airshow.
> Can they be worrying about that two-seater version JFT will grab a share of the Korean T50's market in future???


There are many headwinds to T-50 vis-a-vis JFT still
1) JFT has gathered around 4 years of operational service under its belt while T-50 still remains in prototyping.
2) The capabilities of JFT have drastically enhanced, making it a true MR fighter, not a light attack, trainer like T-50.
3) T-50 is produced in collaboration with LMCO US, if the compnay has not used its private funding, then US administration may excercise influence it its selling decision, a drag on customers.

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## SBD-3

Looking at the video of the airshow, I got the impression that UAE's pilot commentator was trying to downplay JFT. While the english commentator compared it to F-16 and F-18, he was talking about F-5. Moreover, when JFT was making a vertical climb, the voices of "not bad", "very good" could be heard in the background.

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## Imran Khan

hasnain0099 said:


> Looking at the video of the airshow, I got the impression that UAE's pilot commentator was trying to downplay JFT. While the english commentator compared it to F-16 and F-18, he was talking about F-5. Moreover, when JFT was making a vertical climb, the voices of "not bad", "very good" could be heard in the background.



yes he was doing it but abut F-5 he said its tail look like f-5

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## monitor

*Some equipment shown in Dubai Air show 2011*

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## houshanghai



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## PakShaheen79

The most satisfactory element is that the Air Chief himself is at PAF staff. This shows the level of commitment and seriousness on part of the top brass of PAF about selling Thunders and making its place in international market.

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## Nirvana

Jf-17 have Huge Export Potential In Middle east and Africa Considering Low cost !! Pakistan can Induct them In large Numbers as force Multiplier....How many Units are PAF planning to Induct ?

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## Stealth




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## WAQAS119

Imran Khan said:


> *full 2 hours plus show time JF-17 started from 27 so on
> *



Listen to the voices("Nice" and "Not Bad") coming from behind (or from commentator) from 33:39 onwards to 33:50.

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## soul hacker

Dubai - Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, General Khalid Shameem Wynne, who is on an official visit to Dubai today visited the Pakistan Pavilion at Dubai Air Show where equipment made at Pakistan aeronautical complex and JF-17 was show cased.

According to ISPR, Chairman witnessed the JF &#8211; 17 aerial display and appreciated the demonstrated skills of participants. Earlier Chairman met Lieutenant General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of Staff UAE armed forces and exchanged views on matters of bilateral interest.







well i think some development may undergo....!

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## Qasibr

Xracer said:


> YAr only Interests no buying





> JF-17 Thunder showed exemplary flights over the Dubai airport within the air show. Members of the Azerbaijani delegation also watched the flights.
> 
> Reminding about the discussions held with Azerbaijan up to now, the company officials said that the discussions *have not entered the phase of purchase and sale yet*. *Now the company is executing the orders of the Pakistan&#8217;s Air Forces, the export to Azerbaijan can be realized in the nearest years*. The sides determined the annual amount of the order.



Given that the excerpts are from Azeri news sources, that should answer your question. Other people are *DEFINITELY *interested in the JF17. *Why wouldn't they be, this offers superb modern capabilities at a 3rd of the price. Imagine that, even after the Russians doubled the SU-30's price from <50 Million US$ to nearly 100 million US$ - our 20-30 million US$ JF17 still enjoys the advantage in BVR engagement. With SD10B's greater range, we get to lock first and shoot first. Before the SU-30 with it's gynormous airframe and huge RCS even manages to come within range to achieve lock-on.* Pretty ironic, given how they bragged about their BVR advantage for years. The SD10B is a very recent development, R-77 is an older design(and India's are even older, their inventory of R-77s dates back to the mid 90's), and China's investment in this area is much larger than what Russia is able to, in this area, so the advantage Chinese frontline weapons enjoy is only likely to increase. Perhaps Russia should double prices again, because India loves the jet so much. Then, Indians could really criticize us on JF17's cheaper price.

So it is clear and evident that our airforce is focusing on building it's own inventory first. This bird is our main workhorse, and not some export variant with weapons that require Uncle Sam's blessing to function. I know we're anxious to see sales, but I appreciate the foresighted approach they're taking. India has a tendency to get antsy atleast once, often twice, per decade. Everytime we're weak or vulnerable, they come up with an excuse to come to our borders(they came to our borders after 9/11 when the US was pressurizing us to help invade Afg - excuse was some attack on the parliament, and again in 2008 with these Mumbai attacks - excuse/evidence was laughably pathetic, when we were diplomatically cornered already). They even did this back when we were vulnerable and Soviet armour was lined up on the western front, Gen Zia-ul Haq's "cricket diplomacy" and those discrete threats deterred them then. Next time some SU-30 tries to come across the border with bombs loaded, like after Mumbai, we likely won't have an F-16 with missile-lock convincing it to retreat, but likely JF17s or J-10s.

So, they're clearly building up numbers before the prospect of foreign sales arises*. The Azeri news-site itself mentions their interest, as well as saying that Azerbaijan can only get this "in the nearest years", because the company(PAC) is executing orders for the PAF.* They might even be one of our first customers to get this, "in the nearest years". The Pakistani Defence Minister also went on record stating that the PAC could not build up numbers fast enough to satisfy our needs(PAF is pretty quality-conscious, they probably don't want to compromise on quality-control just to churn out more JF17s).

I believe they're trying to generate alot of interest for the JF17, so when Pakistan has like 100+ JF17s and our assembly lines have expanded enough to build for local as well as for export, there'd be enough demand to keep churning out JF17s for years to come.

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## nomi007

agentny17 said:


> I wasn't saying India has F-16s, i was saying that Egypt was rejected Aim-120 because they refused to sign the agreement(CISMOA), and because i forgot the name of the agreement i said it is the same agreement India refused to sign. You just told me the agreement name, so thank you


hi can you tell what CISMOA actually is?
did Pakistan also sign it for f-16s


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## somebozo

nomi007 said:


> hi can you tell what CISMOA actually is?
> did Pakistan also sign it for f-16s



It basically "All your bases belong to us" kind of thing!

One question?
Where is the LCA>???

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## SpArK

Azerbaijan intends to purchase combat aircrafts jointly produced by Pakistan and China
Azerbaijan to purchase Pakistani-Chinese helicopters | Vestnik Kavkaza

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## nomi007

somebozo said:


> It basically "All your bases belong to us" kind of thing!
> 
> One question?
> Where is the LCA>???


thanks...............


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## krash

WAQAS119 said:


> Listen to the voices("Nice" and "Not Bad") coming from behind (or from commentator) from 33:39 onwards to 33:50.



There was also a "some flares...that would be good" in between.

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## regular

houshanghai said:


> ]


Damn! Looks like U were sitting/standing very next to the Air Chiefs during the show/conference hall..U realli enjoyed the show then..

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## WAQAS119

*Dubai 2011: Pakistan commander 'Thunders' his approval*






Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, Pakistan's Chief of the Air Staff, underlined the importance of the new JF-17 Thunder which, he said, &#8220;represented a much-needed capability for the Pakistan Air Force&#8221;.

A 20-fighter squadron air force, the PAF currently operates five frontline fast jet types, consisting of the F-16, the Mirage III/5/50, the Chengdu F-7 and F-7PG, and the Nanchang A-5.

All but the F-16 are based on 1950s or 1960s technology and were described by Suleman as being &#8220;obsolete and expensive to maintain and support&#8221;.

Replacing 250-275 fighters would have placed a heavy burden on Pakistan but the JF-17 offers what Suleman called &#8220;cutting edge capabilities at an affordable cost&#8221; &#8211; *estimating that the JF-17s cost one third of the price of fighters offering equivalent capability.*

Moreover, *because the JF-17 was &#8220;developed from the start by PAF fighter pilots and engineers&#8221;, and because the Chinese team was guided by Pakistani operational experience, the aircraft is tailored to meet Pakistani requirements.*

*The aircraft&#8217;s performance is already &#8220;far exceeding our expectations&#8221;,* Suleman said. *A robust growth path is in place and deliveries of Block 2 aircraft will begin next year, after the last of 42 Block 1 JF-17s is delivered.*

The Block 2 aircraft incorporates avionics improvements (especially to the data link and EW systems), new guided weapons, and air-to-air refuelling capability. It will include the first two-seat versions.

A Block 3 configuration is planned to follow from 2016.

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## regular

Windjammer said:


> Check out @ 0.53.....Wing Commander Ronald. Seems a Christian pilot has excelled on the JF-17. !!


that showz his extreme love for the astonishing JF Thunderz like they do in the West....


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## WAQAS119

krash said:


> There was also a "some flares...that would be good" in between.



I actually agree with the advice of Mr. Unknown. That vertical climb and maneuverability was gorgeous and caught many "wows" and if mixed with flares that would have been super gorgeous with jaws of participants falling down.


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## Dazzler

if you folks hear the news of an export order, do not forget to thank me as i shared my bit too.

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## nomi007

Christian pilot
what did its mean we already have legend sisal choudhary

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## regular

nabil_05 said:


> if you folks hear the news of an export order, do not forget to thank me as i shared my bit too.


So this means U are getting ure share from the export order too then....umm....
U know what when I was listenening to the English comparer/announcer for the show when he was saying Europeans donot get disappointed cuz they still are within the competition, that showed they are getting tense competition from our Thunderz....Cuz he said UAE might buy Rafael, cuz they thinking about it....

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## DANGER-ZONE

WAQAS119 said:


> *Dubai 2011: Pakistan commander 'Thunders' his approval*
> 
> The Block 2 aircraft incorporates avionics improvements (especially to the data link and EW systems), new guided weapons, and air-to-air refuelling capability. *It will include the first two-seat versions*.
> 
> A Block 3 configuration is planned to follow from 2016.



So the Chinese member were right whom posted GCI twin seater Jf-17 Photos here. 
Besides we badly need a hard point for PODs under right intake, to free centreline for fuel tank. It must be done on priority bases ....SUN RAHAY HO PAC WALON....

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## regular

Adios Amigo said:


> My friend your posts are beyond comprehension!


Oh! I'm sorry I was talking about the conversation going on between the Arabic comentator and the English comentator on RAFAEL deal with the UAE authorities...The English comentator was praising the Thunder at fraction of a cost to its western counterparts and showed a best deal to take advantage of.... a very affordable for the poor/third world countries....


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## Areesh

nabil_05 said:


> if you folks hear the news of an export order, do not forget to thank me as i shared my bit too.


 
I will thank all your posts after that.

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## abaseen99

Pakistan raises 2 squadrons of JF-17 jets
Last Updated: Monday, November 14, 2011, 12:52 1605 6 
Tags: Pakistan, JF-17 Thunder jets, China
Islamabad: Pakistan has raised two squadrons equipped with the JF-17 Thunder combat jet that was developed jointly with China and plans to have a third squadron by early next year. 

Serial joint production of the aircraft started in Pakistan in 2009 after extensive flight tests and the limited production of eight jets in 2007. 



So far, two Pakistan Air Force squadrons have been equipped with JF-17s while the "third is planned to be raised by the beginning of next year", an official statement said. 

The co-production of the jet is underway in "full swing" at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra in Punjab. 

The JF-17 programme was started by the two countries in 1998 and the detailed design was finalised in September 2001. 

The PAF showcased the jet at the ongoing Dubai Air Show, which was inaugurated yesterday. PAF chief Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman attended the inaugural ceremony. 

The JF-17 Thunder, which is jointly produced by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and China Aero-Technology Import Export Corporation, has been put on static and aerial display in the air show. 

Pakistan has been plugging the JF-17 as a "cut price" combat aircraft for developing countries. 

"In the present environment, when defence budgets are shrinking and air forces face difficulties in affording modern combat aircraft, the JF-17 offers a highly cost effective solution with cutting edge capabilities," the statement said. 

The JF-17 is an all weather, multi-role, light combat aircraft. The jet is equipped with a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, a complete glass cockpit and self- protection suite that enhances its combat potential. 

The jets can be armed with a range of conventional and smart weapons, long range glide bombs, beyond visual range and short range air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missile and air-to-surface missiles. 

The statement said the JF-17 will soon have air-to-air refuelling capability, which will enhance its range. http://zeenews.**********/news/south-asia/pakistan-raises-2-squadrons-of-jf-17-jets_741716.html


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## hatf IX

Areesh said:


> I will thank all your posts after that.



count me in . . .


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## alibaz

nomi007 said:


> Christian pilot
> what did its mean we already have legend sisal choudhary



Here is the Hero

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## abaseen99

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 PM ----------

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## abaseen99



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## rohailmalhi

SpArK said:


> Azerbaijan intends to purchase combat aircrafts jointly produced by Pakistan and China
> Azerbaijan to purchase Pakistani-Chinese helicopters | Vestnik Kavkaza



So from where JF17 looks like a helicopter.......................lolz. Yar atleast use some sensible source.The writer dont know a damn abt the plane........


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## Windjammer

alibaz said:


> Here is the Hero


*
Guys, there have been several Christian officers in the PAF, I was merely talking about the new breed on JF-17s.*




Mervyn Middlecoat, 1965




Squadron Leader (Major) Peter Christy, 1965.






AVM (Major-General) Eric Hall in 1965

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## Imran Khan

rohailmalhi said:


> So from where JF17 looks like a helicopter.......................lolz. Yar atleast use some sensible source.The writer dont know a damn abt the plane........



yes it can takoff vertical too


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## rohailmalhi

Imran Khan said:


> yes it can takoff vertical too



yeah Imran bahi...............i agree............lolz


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## abaseen99

JF-17 Thunder: CCTV 13 (2011) - YouTube

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## SBD-3

Some more interesting new information thrusting out at Dubai.....

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## Last Hope

The Thunder is going to get exported to 8-10 Nations from Middle East, Africa, East Asia and North Asia.

Our Thunder has been really strong and mighty in the Air Show. The only competition its gonna face is Eurofighter.

For those who are talking about Flares, we once had an detailed discussion/debate on JF-17 thread four. Long thing in short, Thunder can carry Flares/Chaffs but those aren't added to the bird. It's gonna be applied only on the ADA and missions with possible encounter to IR-Missiles.

Regards.


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## SBD-3

Another interesting development, KSA is rumored to have shunned its plans for acquiring F-15s from US. Now RSAF's focus has dramatically shifted towards having multirole aircrafts, Thus it has ordered the remaining typhoons to have MR capabilities e.g. Precision strike and laser designation capabilities. The whole procurement plan is expected to revamp...

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## Dazzler

hasnain0099 said:


> Another interesting development, KSA is rumored to have shunned its plans for acquiring F-15s from US. Now RSAF's focus has dramatically shifted towards having multirole aircrafts, Thus it has ordered the remaining typhoons to have MR capabilities e.g. Precision strike and laser designation capabilities. The whole procurement plan is expected to revamp...



That' s a big change for an air force that has traditionally preferred air superiority fighters but i can see where a hint of this influence is coming from. We do have close ties with Saudis after all.

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## SBD-3

This is an absolute nail biter.....!!!!!!!!





---------- Post added at 01:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------




nabil_05 said:


> That' s a big change for an air force that has traditionally preferred sir superiority fighters but i can see where a hint of this influence is coming from. We do have close ties with Saudis after all.


On Target!!!!!!!!....

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## krash

hasnain0099 said:


> This is an absolute nail biter.....!!!!!!!!



You can say that again......Im refreshing the page every five seconds and thanking any new post!


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## SBD-3

One more thing is that PAF is in negotiations with South African Company (Denel who else it may be) for avionics package as per ACM PAF. This confirms that at least HMS is expected from South Africa, so long French..........


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## epinephrine

nice to see thunder roaring again.but the air crash in attock happened at a very wrong time.its strange that PLAAF has not yet decided to induct thunder in its fleet.they have good number of 4th gen air crafts but a lot of junk as well which must be replaced n i think JFT is a gud option for them.its gud that many 3rd world countries r looking at the thunder for replacing their aged air crafts but it doesn't seem that any country with money will be going for thunder.


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## epinephrine

air chief hinted for the block 3 thunder as well which will be produced 2016 onwards.so wat r the planned upgrades for that version?


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## SBD-3

My last thought for the night before going to sleep....now two more regions remain to be targeted 1) South East Asia and 2) South America........Two more participation in these regions and I think JFT's marketing campaign is accomplished to great extent.

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## Mosamania

hasnain0099 said:


> Another interesting development, KSA is rumored to have shunned its plans for acquiring F-15s from US. Now RSAF's focus has dramatically shifted towards having multirole aircrafts, Thus it has ordered the remaining typhoons to have MR capabilities e.g. Precision strike and laser designation capabilities. The whole procurement plan is expected to revamp...



So far the only confirmed orders are of the Helicopters the Apaches and Black Hawks with plug and play capability because we have developed a few nice things for it and are looking to mount them in our Apaches and our Future Mi-35s as well so they can work together in the same mission no problem.

Like this Radar company:

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## epinephrine

the painting of the black spider on the tail of JFT looks better than the black panther they have painted on the tail of this JFT which is from 16 sqn.it lookis more like a monkey rather than panther.the panther on the fuel tank seems to be a good panther.

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## Edevelop

epinephrine said:


> the painting of the black spider on the tail of JFT looks better than the black panther they have painted on the tail of this JFT which is from 16 sqn.it lookis more like a monkey rather than panther.the panther on the fuel tank seems to be a good panther.
> http://www.****************/picture...stan-airforce-black-pathers-dubai-airshow.jpg



I think to me it looks like a monkey on the tail, and a disney cartoon on the fuel tank


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## Luftwaffe

hasnain0099 said:


> Another interesting development, KSA is rumored to have shunned its plans for acquiring F-15s from US. Now RSAF's focus has dramatically shifted towards having multirole aircrafts, Thus it has ordered the remaining typhoons to have MR capabilities e.g. Precision strike and laser designation capabilities. The whole procurement plan is expected to revamp...



And I told everyone and my friend mosamania that RSAF will order more Typhoons, so in the end current F-15s will be considerably upgraded, but lets wait a few days more for the confirmation unless US does something to jeopardize. A wise choice from the perspective of success of Typhoons, there is nothing wrong with Typhoons only Europeans bad economy could not procure more orders other than that its next best to F-35s. Heard RSAF Typhoons are called "Desert Eagles".


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## agentny17

nabil_05 said:


> i have my fingers crossed folks as there are some serious negotiations going on for an export order, besides Egypt!


Since you seem like an expert here . how close or serious is the Egyptian negotiations ?


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## Mosamania

Luftwaffe said:


> And I told everyone and my friend mosamania that RSAF will order more Typhoons, so in the end current F-15s will be considerably upgraded, but lets wait a few days more for the confirmation unless US does something to jeopardize. A wise choice from the perspective of success of Typhoons, there is nothing wrong with Typhoons only Europeans bad economy could not procure more orders other than that its next best to F-35s. Heard RSAF Typhoons are called "Desert Eagles".



Right now there are mixed signals on our Typhoon assembly plant  apparently BAE has Typhoons canceled orders just hanging there in Warton waiting to be delivered but we keep insisting on making them here. And I don't think the Typhoon will be called desert eagle I much rather that name's copy rights remain until we make our own jet eventually.

Yesterday AEC (Advanced Electronic Company) celebrated completing the modernization of the Tornados to the GR4 variant with its own electronics and Avionics.

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## krash

agentny17 said:


> Since you seem like an expert here . how close or serious is the Egyptian negotiations ?



Ill try to answer from what Nabil has told us recently. Reportedly negotiations are underway on the TOT and the production plant for Egypt. Of course Nabil will probably have more details.

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## Mosamania

In Arabic forum the JF-17 is officially now known as "The Islamic Jet" lol. 

The convos are like this "You can clearly see The Muslim jet rate of climb on this video yada yada" And "The Muslim Jet can carry these weapons yada yada" lol

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## regular

Imran Khan said:


> yes it can takoff vertical too


then our Thunder can beatup F-35 too....


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## agentny17

nomi007 said:


> hi can you tell what CISMOA actually is?
> did Pakistan also sign it for f-16s


I been trying to read about it, and i have no clue what it is so far lol


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## regular

Mosamania said:


> Right now there are mixed signals on our Typhoon assembly plant  apparently BAE has Typhoons canceled orders just hanging there in Warton waiting to be delivered but we keep insisting on making them here. And I don't think the Typhoon will be called desert eagle I much rather that name's copy rights remain until we make our own jet eventually.
> 
> Yesterday AEC (Advanced Electronic Company) celebrated completing the modernization of the Tornados to the GR4 variant with its own electronics and Avionics.


So now I understand Why Mr. Chogy has been praising Typhoon so much cuz they want deal to go through with the Saudis....
U know what he was saying in his posts that Typhoon is even better than 5th Generation fighters PAK FA T-50 and J-20....


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## regular

epinephrine said:


> the painting of the black spider on the tail of JFT looks better than the black panther they have painted on the tail of this JFT which is from 16 sqn.it lookis more like a monkey rather than panther.the panther on the fuel tank seems to be a good panther.


You got good observation man. But we can do, PAF is free to paint anything they want can't complain about it.Yes! we gotta appreciate that at least they did something good to show the world.....


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## krash

regular said:


> So now I understand Why Mr. Chogy has been praising Typhoon so much cuz they want deal to go through with the Saudis....
> *U know what he was saying in his posts that Typhoon is even better than 5th Generation fighters PAK FA T-50 and J-20....*



No he did not. Please go back and read his posts again. And why would he? Hes an American. A Typhoon sale wouldnt benefit him in any way but an F-15 sale would.

here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ht-solution-kill-j-20-t-50-a.html#post2291071


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## regular

epinephrine said:


> air chief hinted for the block 3 thunder as well which will be produced 2016 onwards.so wat r the planned upgrades for that version?


most probably the full stealth options plus Thrust vectoring tech and the Radar range increase etc....


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## ChineseTiger1986

epinephrine said:


> nice to see thunder roaring again.but the air crash in attock happened at a very wrong time.its strange that PLAAF has not yet decided to induct thunder in its fleet.they have good number of 4th gen air crafts but a lot of junk as well which must be replaced n i think JFT is a gud option for them.its gud that many 3rd world countries r looking at the thunder for replacing their aged air crafts but it doesn't seem that any country with money will be going for thunder.



The JF-17 was first proposed by the PAF, and they did convince China to join into the project.

On the other hand, this aircraft is mostly designed for the needs of the PAF.

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## Luftwaffe

Mosamania said:


> And I don't think the Typhoon will be called desert eagle I much rather that name's copy rights remain until we make our own jet eventually.



There is no copy right issue. "Desert Eagle" is a perfect name.

I think Germany could possibly get them with an arrangement there is no extra cost involved. Or Luftwaffe could get half of them and Half is manufactured in Saudi Arabia in any case Typhoons have strong case F-15s are left in a lurch. 

Greece is out of question to get them considering their economic conditions they did announced in past to procure 60 Typhoons but currently economy does not give them any blessing.


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## regular

Luftwaffe said:


> There is no copy right issue. "Desert Eagle" is a perfect name.
> 
> I think Germany could possibly get them with an arrangement there is no extra cost involved. Or Luftwaffe could get half of them and Half is manufactured in Saudi Arabia in any case Typhoons have strong case F-15s are left in a lurch.
> 
> Greece is out of question to get them considering their economic conditions they did announced in past to procure 60 Typhoons but currently economy does not give them any blessing.


But I guess F-15S (stealth version) is better than Typhoon. But I guess the deal of Typhoon will be better for Saudis in order not to face any future problems from US.If the Saudis are doing assembly or some manufacturing at their home country then that is a great option...


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## Luftwaffe

regular said:


> If the Saudis are doing assembly or some manufacturing at their home country then that is a great option...



You answered, Flexibility is the term. Next would be software source code, don't know if UK agreed to it.


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## Mosamania

Luftwaffe said:


> You answered, Flexibility is the term. Next would be software source code, don't know if UK agreed to it.



Well we ARE installing our own targeting pod on it so I think yeah maybe we got the source code.

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## Tempest II

SD-10 is operational in the PAF - confirmed:

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## abaseen99

BLOCK II JF-17 THUNDER TO ENTER INTO PRODUCTION NEXT YEAR
7:37 AM QAMAR 





The Pakistan Air Force will start receiving the improved version of the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet Block II. The Block II Thunder will include newer and improved capabilities including data link and electronic warfare capabilities aerial refuelling, new radar & avionics.
Block II JF-17 Thunder To Enter Into Production Next Year ~ Pakistan Military Review
The JF-17 Thunder Block II will also expend its inventory of new generation precision guided weapons including cruise missiles. Pakistan and China are also developing a two-seater version of the JF-17 Thunder.

The deliveries of the Block II Thunder to Pakistan Air Force are scheduled to start from the second half of the 2012 and will continue till 2015. From 2016, JF-17 Thunder Block III will enter into production .

Pakistani Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar Suleiman has said at the Dubai Air Show, We offer performance comparable to U.S. and European fighters when it comes to radar, dogfight missile, range and BVR [beyond visual range] capabilities, for one third of the cost.

The officials of the joint marketing team for the promotion and sale of the JF-17 Thunder has said that at-least five middle eastern countries has shown interest in the JF-17 Thunder and will be test flying the aircraft for in future to experience its performance first hand.

The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) is also evaluating the FC-1/JF-17 Thunder and will take decision regarding its induction into the service in near future.


Read more: Block II JF-17 Thunder To Enter Into Production Next Year ~ Pakistan Military Review


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## Dazzler

agentny17 said:


> Since you seem like an expert here . how close or serious is the Egyptian negotiations ?



Correction, i am not even close to be n expert. 

Egyptians are so serious that they want a license manufacturing facility similar to k-8 venture. Negotiations are well on their way and at a stage, Mig 29 was pitted by Russia but not much interest is shown. Most probably they want a Blk 2 configuration and when inducted, JFT will be their most advanced fighter aircraft with Aesa, IRST, and many other already discussed in info pool and blk 2 threads.

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## Luftwaffe

nabil_05 said:


> Correction, i am not even close to be n expert.
> 
> Egyptians are so serious that they want a license manufacturing facility similar to k-8 venture. Negotiations are well on their way and at a stage, Mig 29 was pitted by Russia but not much interest is shown. Most probably they want a Blk 2 configuration and when inducted, JFT will be their most advanced fighter aircraft with Aesa, IRST, and many other already discussed in info pool and blk 2 threads.



Since Egyptian Air Force was crippled without a credible BVR and non availability, I see one of the largest exports SD-10A BVR Purchase after AMRAAM in international market in coming months/Year, If I am not wrong.

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## Dazzler

Mosamania said:


> Well we ARE installing our own targeting pod on it so I think yeah maybe we got the source code.



Interesting, what is the name of this pod? Any technical details would be appreciated.

---------- Post added at 01:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------




Luftwaffe said:


> Since Egyptian Air Force was crippled without a credible BVR and non availability, I see one of the largest exports SD-10A BVR Purchase after AMRAAM in international market in coming months/Year, If I am not wrong.



You are very much right. sd-10 is the biggest attraction not only to Egypt but also to other interested parties including PAF. Infact, at the time of its development, two parameters were of topmost priority. The Fly by wire and a true BVR capability.

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## Luftwaffe

Thales Damocles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## abaseen99

Dubai, Pakistan, the wind blowing


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## agentny17

nabil_05 said:


> Correction, i am not even close to be n expert.
> 
> Egyptians are so serious that they want a license manufacturing facility similar to k-8 venture. Negotiations are well on their way and at a stage, Mig 29 was pitted by Russia but not much interest is shown. Most probably they want a Blk 2 configuration and when inducted, JFT will be their most advanced fighter aircraft with Aesa, IRST, and many other already discussed in info pool and blk 2 threads.


Great news, but these news been going for almost 2 years, and no progress yet. Hope we can see more progress soon


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## abaseen99



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## VelocuR

agentny17 said:


> Great news, but these news been going for almost 2 years, and no progress yet. Hope we can see more progress soon



It is common, many business didn't make decision by overnights. It takes time, long process, and patiences. If I am customer, I would prefer more advanced jets (i.e JF-17 Block 2 or Block 3) which is worthy bucks.

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## airbus101

I have a question If we add on the things then that means the price will go up (but how much coz right now flat price is 20 mil) when the block ii comes up what will be the price then? will PAC be able to attract the customers then or not with little price hike.

JF-17 Thunder: ITN News (2011) - YouTube

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## hatf IX

Mosamania said:


> Well we ARE installing our own targeting pod on it so I think yeah maybe we got the source code.



you can't even imagine how glad i am to see that our Arabian brother started investing in technology. love it man . . . . .

i think they should invest in getting tech with TOT instead of building huge building . . . . . .

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## Secur

nabil_05 said:


> if you folks hear the news of an export order, do not forget to thank me as i shared my bit too.


 You have my word sir ! Your leaked news usually gets confirmed afterwards by news or blog


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## Secur

Mosamania said:


> In Arabic forum the JF-17 is officially now known as "The Islamic Jet" lol.
> 
> The convos are like this "You can clearly see The Muslim jet rate of climb on this video yada yada" And "The Muslim Jet can carry these weapons yada yada" lol


 Quite a change from the " Islamic Bomb " huh ?


----------



## SBD-3

Luftwaffe said:


> And I told everyone and my friend mosamania that RSAF will order more Typhoons, so in the end current F-15s will be considerably upgraded, but lets wait a few days more for the confirmation unless US does something to jeopardize. A wise choice from the perspective of success of Typhoons, there is nothing wrong with Typhoons only Europeans bad economy could not procure more orders other than that its next best to F-35s. Heard RSAF Typhoons are called "Desert Eagles".


Sir even typhoon has failed to deliver to KSA what it was ment for i.e. Industrialization of technology. The Typhoon contractorer Al Salam has refused to go on with assembly (being a boeing owned subsidary, and you can guess now why) and thus 100% of the first batch will now fly in from UK manufacturing plant. The new plan has changed to establish a maintanence facility rather than a manufacturing base. Here is PAF's big chance to chip in.....

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## SBD-3

Mosamania said:


> In Arabic forum the JF-17 is officially now known as "The Islamic Jet" lol.
> 
> The convos are like this "You can clearly see The Muslim jet rate of climb on this video yada yada" And "The Muslim Jet can carry these weapons yada yada" lol


Islamic bomb, Islamic jet, Islamic missiles....whats next? Islamic sub?...


----------



## SBD-3

Interesting Table 
Country Projected Sales 
Albania 20 
*Argentina 50 *
Azerbaijan 6 
Bangladesh 20 
Bolivia 30 
*China 150 *
Congo 30 
*Egypt 150 *
Eritrea 12 
Ethiopia 30 
Indonesia 6 
*Iran 150 *
Lebanon 6 
Malaysia 40 
Morocco 20 
Myanmar 30 
Nigeria 30 
*North Korea 200* 
Pakistan 250 
Sri Lanka 12 
Sudan 20 
Syria 50 
Tanzania 6 
Thailand 40 
Venezuela 40 
Zimbabwe 30

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## regular

Luftwaffe said:


> You answered, Flexibility is the term. Next would be software source code, don't know if UK agreed to it.


Yes there are always some hitches in the long run but what we can do . Everybody has to face it. But its possible that UK might take the price for it too...

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------




hasnain0099 said:


> Interesting Table
> Country Projected Sales
> Albania 20
> *Argentina 50 *
> Azerbaijan 6
> Bangladesh 20
> Bolivia 30
> *China 150 *
> Congo 30
> *Egypt 150 *
> Eritrea 12
> Ethiopia 30
> Indonesia 6
> *Iran 150 *
> Lebanon 6
> Malaysia 40
> Morocco 20
> Myanmar 30
> Nigeria 30
> *North Korea 200*
> Pakistan 250
> Sri Lanka 12
> Sudan 20
> Syria 50
> Tanzania 6
> Thailand 40
> Venezuela 40
> Zimbabwe 30


Sir!...Allah karray aap keh mooh mein hazaar ton Ghee Shakkar.....

I hope and wish the Thunder will beat all records in sales and performance in the world....Insha-Allah.....

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## regular

airbus101 said:


> I have a question If we add on the things then that means the price will go up (but how much coz right now flat price is 20 mil) when the block ii comes up what will be the price then? will PAC be able to attract the customers then or not with little price hike.


It will still be at the fraction of a cost to its western counterparts...why U worry brother...Alhamdolillah! this project is very successful one. The West can't find anyway to beat it down no matter what....


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## rockstarIN

hasnain0099 said:


> Interesting Table
> Country Projected Sales
> Albania 20
> *Argentina 50 *
> Azerbaijan 6
> Bangladesh 20
> Bolivia 30
> *China 150 *
> Congo 30
> *Egypt 150 *
> Eritrea 12
> Ethiopia 30
> Indonesia 6
> *Iran 150 *
> Lebanon 6
> Malaysia 40
> Morocco 20
> Myanmar 30
> Nigeria 30
> *North Korea 200*
> Pakistan 250
> Sri Lanka 12
> Sudan 20
> Syria 50
> Tanzania 6
> Thailand 40
> Venezuela 40
> Zimbabwe 30



Come on you can't sell it to both sides together


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## regular

rockstar said:


> Come on you can't sell it to both sides together


We are going to develop a different version to that then.....


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## SBD-3

rockstar said:


> Come on you can't sell it to both sides together


They both operate Russian platforms......had this been the case then we would have seen different platforms on both sides....but this table focuses on estimated sales, the actual sale may vary significantly ofcourse.


----------



## Al Bhatti

Images courtesy local daily

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## Al Bhatti

hasnain0099 said:


> Interesting Table
> Country Projected Sales
> Albania 20
> *Argentina 50 *
> Azerbaijan 6
> Bangladesh 20
> Bolivia 30
> *China 150 *
> Congo 30
> *Egypt 150 *
> Eritrea 12
> Ethiopia 30
> Indonesia 6
> *Iran 150 *
> Lebanon 6
> Malaysia 40
> Morocco 20
> Myanmar 30
> Nigeria 30
> *North Korea 200*
> Pakistan 250
> Sri Lanka 12
> Sudan 20
> *Syria 50 *
> Tanzania 6
> Thailand 40
> Venezuela 40
> Zimbabwe 30



Syria interested, in these days?


----------



## abaseen99

hasnain0099 said:


> Interesting Table
> Country Projected Sales
> Albania 20
> *Argentina 50 *
> Azerbaijan 6
> Bangladesh 20
> Bolivia 30
> *China 150 *
> Congo 30
> *Egypt 150 *
> Eritrea 12
> Ethiopia 30
> Indonesia 6
> *Iran 150 *
> Lebanon 6
> Malaysia 40
> Morocco 20
> Myanmar 30
> Nigeria 30
> *North Korea 200*
> Pakistan 250
> Sri Lanka 12
> Sudan 20
> Syria 50
> Tanzania 6
> Thailand 40
> Venezuela 40
> Zimbabwe 30


 Jane's: China Yemen negotiation Xiaolong fighter sale $ 15,000,000
2010-12-22 09:40 LONDON 





Jane's current cover

&#12288;&#12288;December 22, 2010 issue of "Jane's Defense Weekly," published entitled "Yemen assess Chinese fighter, "the article, the author is the journal in Beirut, Lebanon, correspondent Allen - Nick Meyer (Ellen Knickmeyer). The article said that Yemeni Interior Minister on 9 December to meet with Chinese officials to discuss the procurement of aircraft, Yemen, Pakistan is likely to seek joint procurement of R & D JF-17/FC-1 ( Fierce Dragon ) fighter, this aircraft is expected to sell 1500 million. The article reads as follows:


&#12288;&#12288;The article said that the Arabian Peninsula on the poorest countries - Yemen and China has already begun on the aircraft may discuss matters relating to procurement, Yemen is attempting to enhance Air Force capabilities.


&#12288;&#12288;The article said that China has in the J-10 and JF-17 multi-role fighter market - Africa, Asia, some of the relatively tight national funding. Some countries have expressed (procurement) interest, including Azerbaijan, Nigeria, Zimbabwe and Egypt, in April at a Chinese J-10 fighter aircraft exhibition, many interested countries sent representatives.


&#12288;&#12288;The article said that according to state news agency "Yemen News Agency "(Yemen News Agency) reports, Yemen Minister of the Interior (Interior Minister) wood Taha - Armagh Sri (Mutahar al-Masri) on December 9, the capital of Sana'a in Yemen (Sana'a), and the Chinese aviation industry representatives and the Chinese Ambassador to Yemen for the meeting. Yemen News Agency reported that Armagh Sri talk of the "bear responsibility for security with some of the aircraft to support the possibility of Interior", and to expand security cooperation with China.


&#12288;&#12288;The article said that Yemeni air force mainly by the phasing out of Soviet-era aircraft components, such as lack of funds are suffering, parts shortages, lack of maintenance and pilot training and other factors of instability problems. According to reports, in recent weeks, Air Force aircraft accident so that the loss of two Yemeni MiG-29 fighters.


&#12288;&#12288;The article said that the (aircraft procurement) negotiations seem at an early stage. A military aircraft has long been involved in the sale of a bilateral Western officials on December 14, Jane's said the deal were mainly interested in Yemen. The official said that Yemen is likely to seek procurement in China and Pakistan jointly developed the JF-17 fighter, this aircraft is expected to sell $ 15 million, is relatively inexpensive. According to reports, China's J-10 stand-alone price is $ 27 million. (Zhiyuan / north)??????????? ???1500???_??_???

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## Al Bhatti

Image courtesy local daily


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## AliFarooq

PAF JF-17 Thunder Performing At Dubai Air Show 2011. - YouTube


----------



## Manticore

---------- Post added at 07:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 07:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 AM ----------

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## Windjammer



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## Rafi

Windjammer said:


>



Awesome images Windy.

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## atlantis_cn



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## Mani2020



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## ice_man

$55 BILLION ORDERS PLACED AT THE SHOW & NO ORDER FOR JF-17!!! not even an RFI!!!


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## ice_man

hatf IX said:


> you can't even imagine how glad i am to see that our Arabian brother started investing in technology. love it man . . . . .
> 
> i think they should invest in getting tech with TOT instead of building huge building . . . . . .



"arabian brothers" always learn the skills from us and then make it themselves bigger better because they have the money!! did you know emirates airline started of by renting PIA aircrafts? and see where it is today! UAE used to send its armed forces to learn from our cadet colleges and then guess what they made their own bigger and better! copying our teaching process!

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## JonAsad

Mani2020 said:


>



Very long video- Lol-

Which time stamp is our JF-17 at?---


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## AwA.

JonAsad said:


> Very long video- Lol-
> 
> Which time stamp is our JF-17 at?---


 
From 28 mins.

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## shbaziz

JonAsad said:


> Very long video- Lol-
> 
> Which time stamp is our JF-17 at?---



From 27 onwards

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## Windjammer



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## Xracer

JonAsad said:


> Very long video- Lol-
> 
> Which time stamp is our JF-17 at?---


from 27:30 to 35:00 Bro

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## Manticore

please dont repost the pics -- 60% of the pics here are reposts

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## JonAsad

ANTIBODY said:


> please dont repost the pics -- 60% of the pics here are reposts



how can one be sure?- -

and thanks guys for the info- -
Now i am gona make some of my indian colleagues jealous -


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## Manticore

JonAsad said:


> how can one be sure?- -
> 
> -



just go through the thread , some were posted by me , which are later posted twice already -- i open the thread excitingly to see if some new stuff has come up but to my dismay they are reposts


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## Doctor09

ANTIBODY said:


> just go through the thread , some were posted by me , which are later posted twice already -- i open the thread excitingly to see if some new stuff has come up but to my dismay they are reposts


AP Kay Armanuu k stah sath meray Armanuu ka b khoon huwa hai


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## Mani2020

ANTIBODY said:


> just go through the thread , *some were posted by me , which are later posted twice already* -- i open the thread excitingly to see if some new stuff has come up but to my dismay they are reposts



It is other way round as well..... many are reposted by you as well 

This thread has done 527 posts with 35 pages and around 400-500 pics, in this scenario its really hard for anyone to remember what has been posted already unless and until someone is Einstein, so reposts are expected ..... you need to bear that....and show some tolerance

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## fatman17

*Azerbaijan interested in purchase of Pakistani-Chinese JF-17 combat aircraft * 

JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft on display at the Dubai air show 2011. (Photo: APA) 

Azerbaijan intends to purchase JF-17 combat aircrafts jointly produced by Pakistan and China


09:25 GMT, November 16, 2011 Baku | As Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), which displayed its products in Dubai Airshow-2011 in UAE, told APA, Azerbaijan shows interest in JF-17 Thunder combat aircrafts jointly produced by Pakistan and China and announced its intention to purchase aircrafts of this type. 

The JF-17 Thunder performed flight displays over the Dubai airport during the air show. Members of the Azerbaijani delegation also watched the flights. 

Referring to negotiations held with Azerbaijan, company officials said that the discussions have not entered the phase of signing a contract yet. The company is currently executing the orders of the Pakistani Air Forces; the export to Azerbaijan could be realised in the upcoming years. According to the company, the negotiating parties are determining the annual amount of the possible order. 

Offering a high manoeuvrability, JF-17 Thunder aircraft have the same or even superior capabilities to the MiG-29 aircraft of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces. By introducing this asset into its inventory the Azerbaijani Armed Forces could increase their combat effectiveness. 

PAC company officials said that Pakistan and Azerbaijan have high-level relations. Islamabad supports Baku&#8217;s positions and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and provided military assistance to the country since the very beginning. Taking these relations into consideration, there will be no problems in the sale of fighter aircraft to Azerbaijan. 

According to company&#8217;s representatives, within the Pakistan-China cooperation, the production of a Block-2 version of the JF-17 Thunder will soon be launched. This model will be equipped with the newest electronic warfare systems, as well as additional weapon systems. In addition, a two-seat configuration of the aircraft is being developed. 

The length of the JF-17 is 14,97 m. The aircraft has a maximum takeoff weight of 12474 kg, a combat radius of 1352 km and reaches a maximum speed of 1909 km/h.

A 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon, four air-to-air missiles, one air-to-surface missile, as well as Mk-82, Mk-84 general purpose bombs, GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2 laser-guided bombs, Matra Durandal anti-runway bombs, CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye anti-armour cluster bombs, are among the possible armament of the JF-17. (APA/Rashad Suleymanov)

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## Manticore

Mani2020 said:


> It is other way round as well..... many are reposted by you as well
> 
> This thread has done 527 posts with 35 pages and around 400-500 pics, in this scenario its really hard for anyone to remember what has been posted already unless and until someone is Einstein, so reposts are expected ..... you need to bear that....and show some tolerance



i havent pointed out anyone be name [and that is being tolerant] but thanks for pointing me out eventhough most of the pics i uploaded were from translated french and indonasian forums-- which were later uploaded to blogs and then reposted here by members

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## fatman17

*Air force dropped 10,600 bombs in two years: Qamar*

15 November, 2011 



DUBAI: Pakistan Air Force chief has outlined details of airpower's role in a three-year-old campaign waged against Taliban insurgents entrenched in the northwest tribal areas, reports Flight Global.

Speaking at the Dubai International Air Chiefs' Conference, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman confirmed for the first time the role played by the air force's Lockheed Martin F-16s and specially-equipped Lockheed C-130s.

Until August 2008, Pakistan's air force had no experience in participating in counter-insurgency operations. The role had previously been dominated by the army's artillery and helicopters.

Believing the range and precision of the air force's new F-16 fleet could yield better results, the air force embarked on a rapid learning curve. The air force acquired Goodrich DB-110 targeting pods for F-16s and fitted C-130s with FLIR Systems Brite Star II and Star Safire III sensors, Suleman said.

The fighters in August 2008 launched a bombardment against a newly discovered Taliban stronghold of about 200 fighters in the small village of Loe Sam, Suleman said. The Pakistani Air Force later applied a number of lessons from the Loe Sam operation on a subsequent campaign against major Taliban positions in the Swat valley.

Among the lessons was the need to monitor and strike mountain passes that could be used as escape routes for the displaced Taliban fighters, Suleman said. In the first two years of counter-insurgency operations, the air force conducted more than 5,500 strike sorties, dropped 10,600 bombs and hit 4,600 targets, Suleman said.

AINONLINE adds the commander of the PAF described some lessons learned to the air chiefs' conference. The need for good airborne reconnaissance was paramount, said Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleiman.

When the Army launched large-scale operations in the remote Federally Administered Tribal Areas in August 2008, the PAF had to rely on Google Earth imagery when planning air support missions, Suleiman admitted.

However, by the time that the army was ready to move against insurgents in the Swat valley in May 2009, the PAF had acquired Goodrich DB-110 electro-optical reconnaissance pods for its F-16 fighters, together with the same company's ground station for imagery exploitation. Intelligence analysts could now identify terrorist training camps, ammunition dumps and command and control facilities. Some of these targets were well camouflaged and protected by bunkers, Suleiman noted.

Two days before the ground offensive was launched, the PAF launched a series of interdiction missions and followed up with close air support throughout the six-month campaign. From the imagery collected by the PAF, the army was also able to identify suitable landing zones for the airdrops of commandos.

In these mountainous regions, airpower was best delivered from medium altitude by fast jets, Suleiman said. "The army has lost many attack helicopters due to their operating limitations at high elevations and [due to] hostile fire," he noted. Fighters could also react more quickly to developing combat situations.

When the army turned its attention to South Waziristan in October 2009, the PAF conducted a seven-day campaign in advance. By now, the service had added FLIR Systems Star Safire III EO/IR sensor ball to one of its C-130 transports. Army staff on board the C-130 was able to track the movement of terrorists at night and radio maneuvering instructions to soldiers on the ground.

The PAF has completely overhauled its tactics and techniques for the conduct of irregular warfare, Suleiman said. All of the squadrons were put through a training program over a four-month period. Laser-guided bombs have been used in 80 percent of the PAF strikes, the PAF chief revealed.

Avoiding collateral damage was a primary concern, he explained, "especially since we were engaging targets within our own country. We engage isolated structures only, away from populated areas."

More than 10,600 bombs have been dropped and 4,600 targets destroyed, he said. The PAF has flown more than 500 F-16 sorties with the DB-110 pod, and 650 with the Star Safire EO/IR sensor on the C-130.

The statistics may impress but while Suleiman claimed that "we've broken the back of militants in the Fata," he also warned that offensive military engagement could only accomplish" 10 to 15 percent" of the task of pacifying the tribal areas. The rest must be done by dialogue, winning hearts and minds through economic development of these very poor regions, he said.

In his presentation, Air Chief Marshall did not mention the Selex Galileo Falco UAV. However, Pakistan was the first customer for the reconnaissance drone, which carries the Anglo-Italian company's own electro-optical/infrared sensor ball.

Suleiman later told AIN that there had been problems with the UAV's data link, caused partly by terrain masking. "Then we put in a relay station and started flying it higher, so now we are using it more," he continued.

Courtesy: The News

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## Mani2020

ANTIBODY said:


> i havent pointed out anyone be name [and that is being tolerant] but thanks for pointing me out eventhough most of the pics i uploaded were from translated french and indonasian forums-- which were later uploaded to blogs and then reposted here by members



lol it may be coz its really hard to remember so many names as atleast a dozen members have done so....but i wasn't pointing at you neither was i directive ...it was just to calm down some nerves -if any.


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## shanixee

fatman17 said:


> *Air force dropped 10,600 bombs in two years: Qamar*
> 
> 15 November, 2011
> 
> 
> 
> DUBAI: Pakistan Air Force chief has outlined details of airpower's role in a three-year-old campaign waged against Taliban insurgents entrenched in the northwest tribal areas, reports Flight Global.
> 
> Speaking at the Dubai International Air Chiefs' Conference, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman confirmed for the first time the role played by the air force's Lockheed Martin F-16s and specially-equipped Lockheed C-130s.
> 
> Until August 2008, Pakistan's air force had no experience in participating in counter-insurgency operations. The role had previously been dominated by the army's artillery and helicopters.
> 
> Believing the range and precision of the air force's new F-16 fleet could yield better results, the air force embarked on a rapid learning curve. The air force acquired Goodrich DB-110 targeting pods for F-16s and fitted C-130s with FLIR Systems Brite Star II and Star Safire III sensors, Suleman said.
> 
> The fighters in August 2008 launched a bombardment against a newly discovered Taliban stronghold of about 200 fighters in the small village of Loe Sam, Suleman said. The Pakistani Air Force later applied a number of lessons from the Loe Sam operation on a subsequent campaign against major Taliban positions in the Swat valley.
> 
> Among the lessons was the need to monitor and strike mountain passes that could be used as escape routes for the displaced Taliban fighters, Suleman said. In the first two years of counter-insurgency operations, the air force conducted more than 5,500 strike sorties, dropped 10,600 bombs and hit 4,600 targets, Suleman said.
> 
> AINONLINE adds the commander of the PAF described some lessons learned to the air chiefs' conference. The need for good airborne reconnaissance was paramount, said Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleiman.
> 
> When the Army launched large-scale operations in the remote Federally Administered Tribal Areas in August 2008, the PAF had to rely on Google Earth imagery when planning air support missions, Suleiman admitted.
> 
> However, by the time that the army was ready to move against insurgents in the Swat valley in May 2009, the PAF had acquired Goodrich DB-110 electro-optical reconnaissance pods for its F-16 fighters, together with the same company's ground station for imagery exploitation. Intelligence analysts could now identify terrorist training camps, ammunition dumps and command and control facilities. Some of these targets were well camouflaged and protected by bunkers, Suleiman noted.
> 
> Two days before the ground offensive was launched, the PAF launched a series of interdiction missions and followed up with close air support throughout the six-month campaign. From the imagery collected by the PAF, the army was also able to identify suitable landing zones for the airdrops of commandos.
> 
> In these mountainous regions, airpower was best delivered from medium altitude by fast jets, Suleiman said. "The army has lost many attack helicopters due to their operating limitations at high elevations and [due to] hostile fire," he noted. Fighters could also react more quickly to developing combat situations.
> 
> When the army turned its attention to South Waziristan in October 2009, the PAF conducted a seven-day campaign in advance. By now, the service had added FLIR Systems Star Safire III EO/IR sensor ball to one of its C-130 transports. Army staff on board the C-130 was able to track the movement of terrorists at night and radio maneuvering instructions to soldiers on the ground.
> 
> The PAF has completely overhauled its tactics and techniques for the conduct of irregular warfare, Suleiman said. All of the squadrons were put through a training program over a four-month period. Laser-guided bombs have been used in 80 percent of the PAF strikes, the PAF chief revealed.
> 
> Avoiding collateral damage was a primary concern, he explained, "especially since we were engaging targets within our own country. We engage isolated structures only, away from populated areas."
> 
> More than 10,600 bombs have been dropped and 4,600 targets destroyed, he said. The PAF has flown more than 500 F-16 sorties with the DB-110 pod, and 650 with the Star Safire EO/IR sensor on the C-130.
> 
> The statistics may impress but while Suleiman claimed that "we've broken the back of militants in the Fata," he also warned that offensive military engagement could only accomplish" 10 to 15 percent" of the task of pacifying the tribal areas. The rest must be done by dialogue, winning hearts and minds through economic development of these very poor regions, he said.
> 
> In his presentation, Air Chief Marshall did not mention the Selex Galileo Falco UAV. However, Pakistan was the first customer for the reconnaissance drone, which carries the Anglo-Italian company's own electro-optical/infrared sensor ball.
> 
> Suleiman later told AIN that there had been problems with the UAV's data link, caused partly by terrain masking. "Then we put in a relay station and started flying it higher, so now we are using it more," he continued.
> 
> Courtesy: The News



I have 1 confusion if any 1 can clerify it...

Is our Air Cheif marketing BD110 targeting pods...i mean how did this came in discussion...did any 1 questioned him...he only spoke abt f16 role and targeting pods in detail and nothing else...abt other aircraft or future capabilities.

specifically putting detils abt this...

its so confusing...


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## Mughal-Prince

Yaar Mani itni bari video post ki hai tum nay  kahan tak daikhoon ... Thanks buddy


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## Qasibr

Mosamania said:


> In Arabic forum the JF-17 is officially now known as "The Islamic Jet" lol.
> 
> The convos are like this "You can clearly see The Muslim jet rate of climb on this video yada yada" And "The Muslim Jet can carry these weapons yada yada" lol



@Mosamania your comment really made my day. I hope this Jet lives up to this name, over the course of it's lifespan. I personally feel that it's a huge mistake that many Muslim countries in the Middle East/Western Asiatic region either have compromised US-origin fleets, or really outdated Soviet-era aircraft. As an Egyptian brother said in the previous pages - if you arm yourself with weapons from your enemy's best friend(USA), you can't really pick&choose. 

The JF17 offers an affordable, AND highly effective aircraft. China's latest frontline weapons suite is integrated with the aircraft, and their weapons are pretty advanced. The SD-10B BVR missile has better performance characteristics than Russian R-77s, even Janes(which is a western source) reported that they considered the missile to be at par with slightly older AIM-120C AMRAAMs, but behind the latest AIM-120Ds that they are developing. A HUGE advantage though, is that this BVR missile isn't likely to freeze up if Israel tries to pull some stunt. The lethal capability these aircraft offer, must enter the risk-reward calculus of any would-be aggressor. Behind all the media hype Israel creates around itself, they really are cowards who never come to a fair fight, where there's a real risk they might get beaten too.

We saw this for ourselves, when they came to attack Pakistan's nuclear plants at Kahuta, but saw we were prepared(Saudi AWACS had detected them over the Indian Ocean, and warned us) and chickened out and stayed on the Indian side of the border. Perhaps they still remember the 100% kill-ratio Pakistani pilots achieved against Israel in previous Arab-Israeli wars(shot down all Israeli aircraft engaged, without loosing a single one).

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## DANGER-ZONE



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## DANGER-ZONE

Qasibr said:


> @Mosamania your comment really made my day. I hope this Jet lives up to this name, over the course of it's lifespan. I personally feel that it's a huge mistake that many Muslim countries in the Middle East/Western Asiatic region either have compromised US-origin fleets, or really outdated Soviet-era aircraft. As an Egyptian brother said in the previous pages - if you arm yourself with weapons from your enemy's best friend(USA), you can't really pick&choose.
> 
> The JF17 offers an affordable, AND highly effective aircraft. China's latest frontline weapons suite is integrated with the aircraft, and their weapons are pretty advanced. The SD-10B BVR missile has better performance characteristics than Russian R-77s, even Janes(which is a western source) reported that they considered the missile to be at par with slightly older AIM-120C AMRAAMs, but behind the latest AIM-120Ds that they are developing. A HUGE advantage though, is that this BVR missile isn't likely to freeze up if Israel tries to pull some stunt. The lethal capability these aircraft offer, must enter the risk-reward calculus of any would-be aggressor. Behind all the media hype Israel creates around itself, they really are cowards who never come to a fair fight, where there's a real risk they might get beaten too.
> 
> We saw this for ourselves, when they came to attack Pakistan's nuclear plants at Kahuta, but saw we were prepared(Saudi AWACS had detected them over the Indian Ocean, and warned us) and chickened out and stayed on the Indian side of the border. Perhaps they still remember the 100% kill-ratio Pakistani pilots achieved against Israel in previous Arab-Israeli wars(shot down all Israeli aircraft engaged, without loosing a single one).



Thanks buddy, But believe me by raising such points you are actually inviting *Trolls* here. so better not to discuss these thing here. let it be Dubai Air Show thread. 
Thank you


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## DANGER-ZONE

*PAC's OWN ALL IN A LINE*

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## DANGER-ZONE

Erieye Side view

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## DANGER-ZONE

*Close up View of JF-17 Cockpit HUD*

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## DANGER-ZONE

*Rare View of SAAB 2000 door opened *

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## PakShah

Qasibr said:


> @Mosamania your comment really made my day. I hope this Jet lives up to this name, over the course of it's lifespan. I personally feel that it's a huge mistake that many Muslim countries in the Middle East/Western Asiatic region either have compromised US-origin fleets, or really outdated Soviet-era aircraft. As an Egyptian brother said in the previous pages - if you arm yourself with weapons from your enemy's best friend(USA), you can't really pick&choose.
> 
> The JF17 offers an affordable, AND highly effective aircraft. China's latest frontline weapons suite is integrated with the aircraft, and their weapons are pretty advanced. The SD-10B BVR missile has better performance characteristics than Russian R-77s, even Janes(which is a western source) reported that they considered the missile to be at par with slightly older AIM-120C AMRAAMs, but behind the latest AIM-120Ds that they are developing. A HUGE advantage though, is that this BVR missile isn't likely to freeze up if Israel tries to pull some stunt. The lethal capability these aircraft offer, must enter the risk-reward calculus of any would-be aggressor. Behind all the media hype Israel creates around itself, they really are cowards who never come to a fair fight, where there's a real risk they might get beaten too.
> 
> We saw this for ourselves, when they came to attack Pakistan's nuclear plants at Kahuta, but saw we were prepared(Saudi AWACS had detected them over the Indian Ocean, and warned us) and chickened out and stayed on the Indian side of the border. Perhaps they still remember the 100% kill-ratio Pakistani pilots achieved against Israel in previous Arab-Israeli wars(shot down all Israeli aircraft engaged, without loosing a single one).



Where is the Arabic forum? Can anyone further elaborate?


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## houshanghai

from cctv
[CCTV NEWS] JF17 at dubai airshow 2011 - YouTube

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## DANGER-ZONE

Three COOL non PAF images from Dubai Air Show

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## Imran Khan

dangerzone bro thread is *PAF* At Dubai AIR SHOW - Nov 2011


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## Usama86

The air show is visible from almost everywhere in Dubai (has caused a few traffic accidents ) . Really makes me proud to see the K-8s painting the Dubai skies red. I have been on the road for the past 2 days at around 4:30 pm when the K-8 performs, looks really beautiful. We have 3 plans doing the flying display, its the most from one country if i am not wrong.

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## Last Hope



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## DANGER-ZONE

Imran Khan said:


> dangerzone bro thread is *PAF* At Dubai AIR SHOW - Nov 2011



That's why I wrote *NON PAF* at my post's top to avoid such concerns, my dear.


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## Last Hope




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## Manticore

houshanghai said:


> from cctv



some translation for the 2nd video houshanghai woot!


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## Windjammer

Guys, i know it's a bit late in the day, but why is PAF displaying/promoting the SAAB AWACS. ??


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## Imran Khan

houshanghai said:


> from cctv
> [CCTV NEWS] JF17 at dubai airshow 2011 - YouTube



i love chines man how the hell we make them friend they talk very nice way like thy force to accept it haahahah

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------




Windjammer said:


> Guys, i know it's a bit late in the day, but why is PAF displaying/promoting the SAAB AWACS. ??


again and again and again same question .you are one of most educated member damn .its saab company request Pakistan air force and pay for this to showcase there product .because they damn cant make one brand new AWACS for show in air shows

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## Windjammer

Imran Khan said:


> again and again and again same question .you are one of most educated member damn .its saab company request Pakistan air force and pay for this to showcase there product .because they damn cant make one brand new AWACS for show in air shows


Please to be sorry Imran Bahi..... actually I read something new and was wondering if some one could shed light on it.!!


> Last October, Sweden announced the sale of a Saab 2000 AEW aircraft with an Erieye radar to an undisclosed customer. It has since been widely reported that Riyadh is the buyer. The Royal Saudi Air Force already operates the more capable Boeing E-3A airborne warning and control system aircraft, but the Saab 2000 will likely be transferred to or operated jointly with Pakistan. Such a transfer would make up for Pakistan's original order for six of the AEW platforms, which was reduced in 2007 to five aircraft.


IN FOCUS: Middle East defence market keeps growing

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## krash

^^^ Man I love the Saudis for what they've done for us over the ages. Many ridicule them, criticize them, dislike them but, admit it or not, they've helped us quite a lot in quite a lot of ways quite a lot of times.

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## abaseen99




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## Last Hope

_
Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, General Khalid Shameem Wynne called on Lieutenant General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of Staff UAE armed forces today. (15-11-2011) - Photo ISPR_


*Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, General Khalid Shameem Wynne, who is on an official visit to Dubai today visited the Pakistan Pavilion at Dubai Air Show where equipment made at Pakistan aeronautical complex and JF-17 was show cased. Chairman witnessed the JF - 17 aerial display and appreciated the demonstrated skills of participants. Earlier Chairman met Lieutenant General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of Staff UAE armed forces and exchanged views on matters of bilateral interest.*

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## Mughal-Prince

Windjammer said:


> Please to be sorry Imran Bahi..... actually I read something new and was wondering if some one could shed light on it.!!



 Windy bro I am thinking same when I read your question as what Imran bhai write about you but luckily I have escaped because I have already read it somewhere in this thread while I was about to write the same question ... but you are hammered


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## Imran Khan

Windjammer said:


> Please to be sorry Imran Bahi..... actually I read something new and was wondering if some one could shed light on it.!!
> ]



nope dear windi but i am sorry i was mad beacause a member like you ask this qes hahahahhaa

yaar ap bhi na ab to saab company waly bhi janty hai imran khan and windjammer are members of defence.pk


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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99




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## krash

abaseen99 said:


>



Not from Dubai mate.


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## abaseen99




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## abaseen99

China-Pakistan JF-17 Fighter Slated for Block-2 Upgrades

DUBAI AIR SHOW » NOVEMBER 14, 2011
by THIERRY DUBOIS
The JF-17 Thunder fighter, co-developed by China&#8217;s Avic and the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), is to receive improvements that will start being produced with the Block-2 version from next year.

The enhancements will effect the data link and electronic warfare capabilities. An air-to-air re refueling capability will be added, as will be new guided weapons. A two-seat variant is being developed, too. The current program schedule calls for the Pakistan-based factory to deliver the JF-17 Block-2 to the PAF from mid-2012 to 2015. Then, a Block-3 version is planned from 2016. Block-1 aircraft are being delivered until the middle of next year.


PAF Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar Suleiman said marketing efforts focus on those countries needing to replace old fighters such as the MiG-21, early Mirage, F-5 and Phantom types. The program&#8217;s target export countries can be found in Latin America, Africa and Asia. &#8220;We offer performance comparable to U.S. and European fighters when it comes to radar, dogfight missile, range and BVR [beyond visual range] capabilities, for one third of the cost,&#8221; Suleiman claimed.

So far, five countries are said to have taken a close look at the aircraft. China itself is currently evaluating the JF-17 and a decision is expected &#8220;shortly.&#8221; Avic and the PAF expect to sell &#8220;between 300 and 500 JF-17s&#8221; over the next 10 years. 

The in-service fleet has logged a total of 10,000 flight hours with the PAF. In China, the JF-17 is also known as the FC-1 Xiaolong.China-Pakistan JF-17 Fighter Slated for Block-2 Upgrades | Aviation International News

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## fjavaid

abaseen99 said:


> China-Pakistan JF-17 Fighter Slated for Block-2 Upgrades
> 
> DUBAI AIR SHOW » NOVEMBER 14, 2011
> by THIERRY DUBOIS
> The JF-17 Thunder fighter, co-developed by Chinas Avic and the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), is to receive improvements that will start being produced with the Block-2 version from next year.
> 
> The enhancements will effect the data link and electronic warfare capabilities. An air-to-air re refueling capability will be added, as will be new guided weapons. A two-seat variant is being developed, too. The current program schedule calls for the Pakistan-based factory to deliver the JF-17 Block-2 to the PAF from mid-2012 to 2015. Then, a Block-3 version is planned from 2016. Block-1 aircraft are being delivered until the middle of next year.
> 
> 
> PAF Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar Suleiman said marketing efforts focus on those countries needing to replace old fighters such as the MiG-21, early Mirage, F-5 and Phantom types. The programs target export countries can be found in Latin America, Africa and Asia. We offer performance comparable to U.S. and European fighters when it comes to radar, dogfight missile, range and BVR [beyond visual range] capabilities, for one third of the cost, Suleiman claimed.
> 
> So far, five countries are said to have taken a close look at the aircraft. China itself is currently evaluating the JF-17 and a decision is expected shortly. Avic and the PAF expect to sell between 300 and 500 JF-17s over the next 10 years.
> 
> The in-service fleet has logged a total of 10,000 flight hours with the PAF. In China, the JF-17 is also known as the FC-1 Xiaolong.


 
How many times do we hv to see the same post... again again n again......


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## Windjammer

Imran Khan said:


> nope dear windi but i am sorry i was mad beacause a member like you ask this qes hahahahhaa
> 
> yaar ap bhi na ab to saab company waly bhi janty hai imran khan and windjammer are members of defence.pk



Mein samajh gaya tha Imran Bahi ki zaban kahey ko khushak hey.....chakar nahin laga ho ga.!!!! 

Aaj tu itni bi muessar nahi mehkhaney mein......jitni hum chour diya kartey they paimaney mein.!!

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## Imran Khan

Windjammer said:


> Mein samajh gaya tha Imran Bahi ki zaban kahey ko khushak hey.....chakar nahin laga ho ga.!!!!
> 
> Aaj tu itni bi muessar nahi mehkhaney mein......jitni hum chour diya kartey they paimaney mein.!!



a jao hamary pass bhut pari hai 2 bottles hai hahahahha


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## abaseen99

PAF JF-17 Thunder Performing At Dubai Air Show 2011 By Saqib Jamal - YouTube

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## regular

krash said:


> ^^^ Man I love the Saudis for what they've done for us over the ages. Many ridicule them, criticize them, dislike them but, admit it or not, they've helped us quite a lot in quite a lot of ways quite a lot of times.


Yes! they did and we highly appreciate that....

---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------




fjavaid said:


> How many times do we hv to see the same post... again again n again......


They want us to memorize each word of it.....

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## krash

regular said:


> Yes! they did and we highly appreciate that....




Then lets stop the tirades and the poking at them. Those poor Saudis came here excited and expectant of a warm welcome instead we only ridiculed and in result alienated them. They have, after all, stood by us for a very long time through thick and thin. On top of that those guys here themselves are very reasonable and respectable. They deserve it. 

I normally stay out of such things but we've been excessively unjust towards them.

Sorry for going off topic but someone had to say something.

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## abaseen99

PAF JF-17 Thunder Performing At Dubai Air Show 2011 By Saqib Jamal - YouTube


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## PakShaheen79



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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99

---------- Post added at 01:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------

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## Dazzler

Azerbaijan is willing to wait to get their hand on JFT till our two batches are completed. They are impressed by its current show and maneuverability.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Pakistan making this aircraft is the future backbone of the aviation for the Muslim World.

And all Muslim nations should support Pakistan for its success of its very first step in the aviation domain.

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## DANGER-ZONE

abaseen99 said:


> PAF JF-17 Thunder Performing At Dubai Air Show 2011 By Saqib Jamal - YouTube



many guys here have ignored thunder's superb ability of landing smoothly and slowing down without deploying any airbreaks or even jettisoning chute, that it demonstrated at the end. Like Gripen, F-16, f-18 it landed and slow itself down using horizontal stabilators, which are controlled by digital FBW system. 

UAE F-16 landed before JFT demonstration, deployed air breaks and it slow down the same way that Thunder's did. but JFT not even used airbreaks either. 

see both's landing again f-16 & JF-17, its simply remarkable to see that. it made my day.

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## Najam Khan

danger-zone said:


> many guys here have ignored thunder's superb ability of landing smoothly and slowing down without deploying any airbreaks or even jettisoning chute, that it demonstrated at the end. Like Gripen, F-16, f-18 it landed and slow itself down using horizontal stabilators, which are controlled by digital FBW system.
> 
> UAE F-16 landed before JFT demonstration, deployed air breaks and it slow down the same way that Thunder's did. but JFT not even used airbreaks either.
> 
> see both's landing again f-16 & JF-17, its simply remarkable to see that. it made my day.



And pilots professionalism was visible for his management of back pressure,speed and horizontal stabilizers. It was a very smooth landing...an example for young pilots!

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## Dazzler

danger-zone said:


> many guys here have ignored thunder's superb ability of landing smoothly and slowing down without deploying any airbreaks or even jettisoning chute, that it demonstrated at the end. Like Gripen, F-16, f-18 it landed and slow itself down using horizontal stabilators, which are controlled by digital FBW system.
> 
> UAE F-16 landed before JFT demonstration, deployed air breaks and it slow down the same way that Thunder's did. but JFT not even used airbreaks either.
> 
> see both's landing again f-16 & JF-17, its simply remarkable to see that. it made my day.


 
At Last! someone noticed something of note besides barell roll and vertical climb. I just love the tight turns and remarkable recovery from a maneuver.

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## Najam Khan

nabil_05 said:


> At Last! someone noticed something of note besides barell roll and vertical climb. I just love the tight turns and remarkable recovery from a maneuver.



His landing approach was superb, the way he turned from a high AOA to 13deg bracket it was so professional. The order of maneuvers was also shuffled, with addition of few more.

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## agentny17

As i know, Pakistan has a big fleet of F-16s, and now they have JF-17, how do the measure up against eachother ? I am sure both Jets were measured up against eachother by the Pakistani Pilots, what advatages does JF-17 has over the F-16 and vice versa ? What did the Pakistani pilots say about it ?


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## Donatello

agentny17 said:


> As i know, Pakistan has a big fleet of F-16s, and now they have JF-17, how do the measure up against eachother ? I am sure both Jets were measured up against eachother by the Pakistani Pilots, what advatages does JF-17 has over the F-16 and vice versa ? What did the Pakistani pilots say about it ?



Pakistan, actually doesn't have a 'big' fleet, i mean i wouldn't call it that big.

But the numbers are significant for PAF in itself. JF-17s have been very well received and many pilots who were to train for F-16s (block A and B) opted for JF-17s.....(at least that's the rumor, maybe anyone can confirm it???)

JF-17 Block II is due next year, which will make it better than the PAF MLU-ed and maybe Blk 52+ F-16s, considering the AESA improvements and the wide variety of weapons and armament it can carry.

I mean, when it comes to devices like Targeting Pods, Electronic Intelligence pods, anti-ship missiles, Air to ground bombs....guided and un-guided........and BVR missiles, JF-17 does it all, whereas F-16s are handicapped as the planes must be supplied arms by United States, which is of course a hectic task for Pakistan.

JF-17 may have a slower top speed than F-16s, but as it matures, it can accomplish huge roles, which F-16s could, but in case of PAF, were severely restricted by the add-ons available.

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## agentny17

penumbra said:


> Pakistan, actually doesn't have a 'big' fleet, i mean i wouldn't call it that big.
> 
> But the numbers are significant for PAF in itself. JF-17s have been very well received and many pilots who were to train for F-16s (block A and B) opted for JF-17s.....(at least that's the rumor, maybe anyone can confirm it???)
> 
> JF-17 Block II is due next year, which will make it better than the PAF MLU-ed and maybe Blk 52+ F-16s, considering the AESA improvements and the wide variety of weapons and armament it can carry.
> 
> I mean, when it comes to devices like Targeting Pods, Electronic Intelligence pods, anti-ship missiles, Air to ground bombs....guided and un-guided........and BVR missiles, JF-17 does it all, whereas F-16s are handicapped as the planes must be supplied arms by United States, which is of course a hectic task for Pakistan.
> 
> JF-17 may have a slower top speed than F-16s, but as it matures, it can accomplish huge roles, which F-16s could, but in case of PAF, were severely restricted by the add-ons available.


Good to hear. Such a great step by Pakistan in my opinion. I see a lot of Pakistani members very critical to Pakistani government, but seriously to be able to achieve great things military wise that no other muslim country, even countries with higher GDP's and better economies didn't even come close to achieving. We are proud of you guys.

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## VelocuR

penumbra said:


> Pakistan, actually doesn't have a 'big' fleet, i mean i wouldn't call it that big.
> 
> But the numbers are significant for PAF in itself. JF-17s have been very well received and many pilots who were to train for F-16s (block A and B) opted for JF-17s.....(at least that's the rumor, maybe anyone can confirm it???)
> 
> JF-17 Block II is due next year, which will make it better than the PAF MLU-ed and maybe Blk 52+ F-16s, considering the AESA improvements and the wide variety of weapons and armament it can carry.
> 
> I mean, when it comes to devices like Targeting Pods, Electronic Intelligence pods, anti-ship missiles, Air to ground bombs....guided and un-guided........and BVR missiles, JF-17 does it all, whereas F-16s are handicapped as the planes must be supplied arms by United States, which is of course a hectic task for Pakistan.
> 
> JF-17 may have a slower top speed than F-16s, but as it matures, it can accomplish huge roles, which F-16s could, but in case of PAF, were severely restricted by the add-ons available.



To add more, our F-16 is limits, IIFF, bugs, and even Nabil confirm JF-17 Blk 2 is AESA, Air to Air refueling, Anti-Shipping and some of stealth from J-10B. 

Keep it mind, the first time we received F-16s A and B (Block 15) in 1980s, compared to our first time today JF-17 Block 1 means >>> Block 30 standard (just like F-16 Block 15). Big differences? 

A perfect combination of PAF's future muscle: JF-17, J-10B, and old fleets experienced F-16s.

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## Manticore



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## Donatello

RaptorRX707 said:


> To add more, our F-16 is limits, IIFF, bugs, and even Nabil confirm JF-17 Blk 2 is AESA, Air to Air refueling, Anti-Shipping and some of stealth from J-10B.
> 
> Keep it mind, the first time we received F-16s A and B (Block 15) in 1980s, compared to our first time today JF-17 Block 1 means >>> Block 30 standard (just like F-16 Block 15). Big differences?
> 
> A perfect combination of PAF's future muscle: JF-17, J-10B, and old fleets experienced F-16s.




I am myself surprised at the pace of development in the JF-17 program. When it first came out, i though it would be a stop gap like the F-6s and F-7s of PAF......but Block II is there and to be ready by next year means the Chinese have definitely mastered the avionics.......i think PAF should just keep the F-16s on the back burner, get enough ammo and be done with USA, probably the most hypocritical ally of Pakistan ever.

Let's wait and see what J-10s offer and JF-17 Block II.....no wonder Azerbaijan is so keen on getting it now.

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## PakShah

Mash'Allah.

Al-hum-du-lilah.

Today, I feel proud. I hope Insh'Allah we get some orders from some brotherly countries.

I heard the Azerbaijani air force is interested. Have made any deal yet with the Pakistani and Chinese governments?

When the JF-17s are sold to Azerbaijan will they be Pakistani made?


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## VelocuR

I love new JF-17's tattoo black Panther on the tail! It consider tough bad boy.....

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## agentny17

RaptorRX707 said:


> To add more, our F-16 is limits, IIFF, bugs, and even Nabil confirm JF-17 Blk 2 is AESA, Air to Air refueling, Anti-Shipping and some of stealth from J-10B.
> 
> Keep it mind, the first time we received F-16s A and B (Block 15) in 1980s, compared to our first time today JF-17 Block 1 means >>> Block 30 standard (just like F-16 Block 15). Big differences?
> 
> A perfect combination of PAF's future muscle: JF-17, J-10B, and old fleets experienced F-16s.


Thumbs up

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## VelocuR

PakShah said:


> Mash'Allah.
> 
> Al-hum-du-lilah.
> 
> Today, I feel proud. I hope Insh'Allah we get some orders from some brotherly countries.
> 
> I heard the Azerbaijani air force is interested. Have made any deal yet with the Pakistani and Chinese governments?
> 
> When the JF-17s are sold to Azerbaijan will they be Pakistani made?


 
Here's interesting points, it takes times. Read it is process to meet customer's requirements!

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## DANGER-ZONE

ANTIBODY said:


>



another video that start from a preety aunty .... i guess GEO TV was bzy covering Girls then the Airshow.

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## Desert Fox

hasnain0099 said:


> Interesting Table
> Country Projected Sales
> Albania 20
> *Argentina 50 *
> Azerbaijan 6
> Bangladesh 20
> Bolivia 30
> *China 150 *
> Congo 30
> *Egypt 150 *
> Eritrea 12
> Ethiopia 30
> Indonesia 6
> *Iran 150 *
> Lebanon 6
> Malaysia 40
> Morocco 20
> Myanmar 30
> Nigeria 30
> *North Korea 200*
> Pakistan 250
> Sri Lanka 12
> Sudan 20
> Syria 50
> Tanzania 6
> Thailand 40
> Venezuela 40
> Zimbabwe 30



North Korea 200?????, what are they going to pay with? They're broke and sanctioned.

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## DANGER-ZONE

*SEE WHATS GOING ON HEREE ....*












Idher loog mer rahay hain k kisi tarha Jahazon me beath sakain, or ye bethi hass rahi hain. 
"1 . Suno utha nai, 2 . Hmm bethnay nahin dain ge abi time pora nahin hua, jaoo bhago .... khe khe kheee "

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## Edevelop

SilentNinja said:


> North Korea 200?????, what are they going to pay with? They're broke and sanctioned.



Maybe we can exchange some jets with some Nuclear bombs. Lets go and ask AQ Khan what we should do...


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## Edevelop

Azerbaijan intends to purchase JF-17 combat aircrafts jointly produced by Pakistan and China

09:25 GMT, November 16, 2011 Baku | As Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), which displayed its products in Dubai Airshow-2011 in UAE, told APA, Azerbaijan shows interest in JF-17 Thunder combat aircrafts jointly produced by Pakistan and China and announced its intention to purchase aircrafts of this type. 

The JF-17 Thunder performed flight displays over the Dubai airport during the air show. Members of the Azerbaijani delegation also watched the flights. 

Referring to negotiations held with Azerbaijan, company officials said that the discussions have not entered the phase of signing a contract yet.The company is currently executing the orders of the Pakistani Air Forces; *the export to Azerbaijan could be realised in the upcoming years.* According to the company, the negotiating parties are determining the annual amount of the possible order. 

Offering a high manoeuvrability, JF-17 Thunder aircraft have the same or even superior capabilities to the MiG-29 aircraft of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces. By introducing this asset into its inventory the Azerbaijani Armed Forces could increase their combat effectiveness.

So after how many years? Any guesses?


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## Donatello

cb4 said:


> Maybe we can exchange some jets with some Nuclear bombs. Lets go and ask AQ Khan what we should do...



Nuclear bombs?

What era do you live in? 

Because Pakistan already has both, Nuclear 'bombs' and jets.....and needs to exchange nothing...


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## Edevelop

I'm joking about AQ Khan, friend. We have nuclear bombs but whats wrong with getting ready made ones anyways? We can make a JFT anytime and won't take no longer than 2-3 weeks per piece. Nuclear bombs will take months. North Korea doesn't have the money and we can't give JFT for free!. To think about it Nuclear is not a bad option


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## houshanghai

ANTIBODY said:


> some translation for the 2nd video houshanghai woot!



this news report means that JF17 was a light-weight,4 gen multi-role fighter, co-developed jointly by pakistan and china . 
The current JFT BLK1 capability surpass the earlier F16 or Mig29. and JFT blk1 avionics is equal to or even better than F16 C/D. This multi-purpose platform has handle air to air and air to surface including mobile objects on both land and sea. JF17 is an affordable platform that cost 1/3 of what F16 charges but with matching capability on many fronts. 

In addition,JFT BLK2 will add air refueling capability ,the data link and electronic warfare capabilities.and new guided weapons. A two-seat variant is being developed, too.


some pics

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## houshanghai



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## Last Hope

PakShaheen79 said:


>



Sorry Shaheen Bhai. This picture isin't of Dubai Air Show. We have three JF-17s from 16th Squadron and apparently this 113 doesn't belong to 16th but 26th Squadron.

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## Edevelop

The light grey colour scheme JFT from Farnborough looks better than the one from Dubai.


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## Al Bhatti

fatman17 said:


> *Air force dropped 10,600 bombs in two years: Qamar*
> 
> 15 November, 2011
> 
> 
> 
> DUBAI: Pakistan Air Force chief has outlined details of airpower's role in a three-year-old campaign waged against Taliban insurgents entrenched in the northwest tribal areas, reports Flight Global.
> 
> Speaking at the Dubai International Air Chiefs' Conference, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman confirmed for the first time the role played by the air force's Lockheed Martin F-16s and specially-equipped Lockheed C-130s.
> 
> Until August 2008, Pakistan's air force had no experience in participating in counter-insurgency operations. The role had previously been dominated by the army's artillery and helicopters.
> 
> Believing the range and precision of the air force's new F-16 fleet could yield better results, the air force embarked on a rapid learning curve. The air force acquired Goodrich DB-110 targeting pods for F-16s and fitted C-130s with FLIR Systems Brite Star II and Star Safire III sensors, Suleman said.
> 
> The fighters in August 2008 launched a bombardment against a newly discovered Taliban stronghold of about 200 fighters in the small village of Loe Sam, Suleman said. The Pakistani Air Force later applied a number of lessons from the Loe Sam operation on a subsequent campaign against major Taliban positions in the Swat valley.
> 
> Among the lessons was the need to monitor and strike mountain passes that could be used as escape routes for the displaced Taliban fighters, Suleman said. In the first two years of counter-insurgency operations, the air force conducted more than 5,500 strike sorties, dropped 10,600 bombs and hit 4,600 targets, Suleman said.
> 
> AINONLINE adds the commander of the PAF described some lessons learned to the air chiefs' conference. The need for good airborne reconnaissance was paramount, said Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleiman.
> 
> When the Army launched large-scale operations in the remote Federally Administered Tribal Areas in August 2008, the PAF had to rely on Google Earth imagery when planning air support missions, Suleiman admitted.
> 
> However, by the time that the army was ready to move against insurgents in the Swat valley in May 2009, the PAF had acquired Goodrich DB-110 electro-optical reconnaissance pods for its F-16 fighters, together with the same company's ground station for imagery exploitation. Intelligence analysts could now identify terrorist training camps, ammunition dumps and command and control facilities. Some of these targets were well camouflaged and protected by bunkers, Suleiman noted.
> 
> Two days before the ground offensive was launched, the PAF launched a series of interdiction missions and followed up with close air support throughout the six-month campaign. From the imagery collected by the PAF, the army was also able to identify suitable landing zones for the airdrops of commandos.
> 
> In these mountainous regions, airpower was best delivered from medium altitude by fast jets, Suleiman said. "The army has lost many attack helicopters due to their operating limitations at high elevations and [due to] hostile fire," he noted. Fighters could also react more quickly to developing combat situations.
> 
> When the army turned its attention to South Waziristan in October 2009, the PAF conducted a seven-day campaign in advance. By now, the service had added FLIR Systems Star Safire III EO/IR sensor ball to one of its C-130 transports. Army staff on board the C-130 was able to track the movement of terrorists at night and radio maneuvering instructions to soldiers on the ground.
> 
> The PAF has completely overhauled its tactics and techniques for the conduct of irregular warfare, Suleiman said. All of the squadrons were put through a training program over a four-month period. Laser-guided bombs have been used in 80 percent of the PAF strikes, the PAF chief revealed.
> 
> Avoiding collateral damage was a primary concern, he explained, "especially since we were engaging targets within our own country. We engage isolated structures only, away from populated areas."
> 
> More than 10,600 bombs have been dropped and 4,600 targets destroyed, he said. The PAF has flown more than 500 F-16 sorties with the DB-110 pod, and 650 with the Star Safire EO/IR sensor on the C-130.
> 
> The statistics may impress but while Suleiman claimed that "we've broken the back of militants in the Fata," he also warned that offensive military engagement could only accomplish" 10 to 15 percent" of the task of pacifying the tribal areas. The rest must be done by dialogue, winning hearts and minds through economic development of these very poor regions, he said.
> 
> In his presentation, Air Chief Marshall did not mention the Selex Galileo Falco UAV. However, Pakistan was the first customer for the reconnaissance drone, which carries the Anglo-Italian company's own electro-optical/infrared sensor ball.
> 
> Suleiman later told AIN that there had been problems with the UAV's data link, caused partly by terrain masking. "Then we put in a relay station and started flying it higher, so now we are using it more," he continued.
> 
> Courtesy: The News



And after all this US says every time "do more"


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## Al Bhatti

Qasibr said:


> @Mosamania your comment really made my day. I hope this Jet lives up to this name, over the course of it's lifespan. I personally feel that it's a huge mistake that many Muslim countries in the Middle East/Western Asiatic region either have compromised US-origin fleets, or really outdated Soviet-era aircraft. As an Egyptian brother said in the previous pages - if you arm yourself with weapons from your enemy's best friend(USA), you can't really pick&choose.
> 
> The JF17 offers an affordable, AND highly effective aircraft. China's latest frontline weapons suite is integrated with the aircraft, and their weapons are pretty advanced. The SD-10B BVR missile has better performance characteristics than Russian R-77s, even Janes(which is a western source) reported that they considered the missile to be at par with slightly older AIM-120C AMRAAMs, but behind the latest AIM-120Ds that they are developing. A HUGE advantage though, is that this BVR missile isn't likely to freeze up if Israel tries to pull some stunt. The lethal capability these aircraft offer, must enter the risk-reward calculus of any would-be aggressor. Behind all the media hype Israel creates around itself, they really are cowards who never come to a fair fight, where there's a real risk they might get beaten too.
> 
> *We saw this for ourselves, when they came to attack Pakistan's nuclear plants at Kahuta, but saw we were prepared(Saudi AWACS had detected them over the Indian Ocean, and warned us) and chickened out and stayed on the Indian side of the border.* Perhaps they still remember the 100% kill-ratio Pakistani pilots achieved against Israel in previous Arab-Israeli wars(shot down all Israeli aircraft engaged, without loosing a single one).


 
And Saudis are bashed in this Forum whenever there is a chance.


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## Edevelop

Al Bhatti said:


> And Saudis are bashed in this Forum whenever there is a chance.



There is no reason to support Saudis.


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## Al Bhatti

17 November 2011

*New Dh1b venue for next Dubai Airshow*

The next edition of the biennial Dubai Airshow will be much bigger than this year as the mega event will get a brand new venue in 2013 and a Dh1 billion investment has been announced for the relocation of the show.

The new venue will encompass a larger area than the current facility and will consist of a grand reception building, two large exhibition halls, and static display areas, which will offer more space to accommodate additional aircraft.

&#8220;The move of Dubai Airshow 2013 to Dubai World Central is an example of Dubai&#8217;s long-term plan to meet the growing demands of the industry,&#8221; Shaikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, Chairman, Dubai Aviation City Corporation, said in a statement.

Dubai World Central is one of the most ambitious projects of its kind in the world comprising the new Al Maktoum International Airport, set to be the world&#8217;s largest in volume and size upon completion, and the adjacent specialised free zones focused on logistics sectors and aviation industries.

&#8220;Dubai World Central is an integral component of the strategic vision of Dubai Government to establish the emirate as an international aviation hub and a gateway to global markets,&#8221; Shaikh Ahmed said.

The 2011 airshow, which is dominated by Emirates airline&#8217;s $18 billion deal, has recorded $47 billion orders and three times more than the tally of the last show, according to the organiser.

The next airshow will be one of many new superlatives, according to an analyst. &#8220;A bigger footprint, a bigger show site with more room for international guests and companies to showcase their businesses &#8212; it would be reckless of us to dismiss these ambitions,&#8221; FBE Aerospace founder and chief analyst Saj Ahmad told Khaleej Times.

&#8220;While we may have been accustomed to the usual show gatherings at Farnborough and Le Bourget (Paris), Dubai&#8217;s airshow is the hub for all of the growth we&#8217;re seeing in the Mideast and its little wonder that this Dh1 billion investment is just the first of many tranches to make the new venue a centrepiece not just for the UAE, but as an icon and benchmark for global aviation,&#8221; he added.

New Dh1b venue for next Dubai Airshow

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## SBD-3

cb4 said:


> There is no reason to support Saudis.


The erieyes you see are a gift from the country you find no reason to support.....

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## Qasibr

cb4 said:


> There is no reason to support Saudis.



If we follow your line-of-thinking, are all Pakistanis not to be helped/supported, and should be hated for the criminal actions of "their" government? Most governments in the Muslim world are lacking. The government in Pakistan only managed to come into power with American support, clearing all their murder and corruption cases(the Saudi leadership aren't known for murdering, biggest complain other Muslims have is that they've got decadent lifestyles). Before American assistance, the current leadership could not even come to Pakistan for years(their crimes would have landed them in jail, straight from the airport). America backed terrible governments and dictators like Mubarak for 40 years, and now that they were old and change was coming, they're installing new governments through this "Arab spring".

If anything, the Saudi government has demonstrated better leadership than the Pakistani government. Yes, their history is tainted with western backing/support(just like ours), but that does not condemn all future generations of Saudis. They had leaders like King Faisal, do you even know how he stood up for Islam and sacrificed his life in the process? That video(in the link above) contains the speech of his which many believe got him killed. If we don't know much, we should refrain from spouting our ignorance

It is only our lack-of-knowledge and petty bickering that makes us clash with our own. Even in the Geo-TV videos on the previous pages, the PAF officials at the Dubai airshow were deeply touched at the way our Arab bretherin own up to the JF17, what is our success is their success. This is the one modern combat aircraft on the market, which they can trust not to be compromised against Israel. 

I hope the ISI higher-ups realize this threat btw - we don't even share a border with Israel and still they come after us every chance they get(Kahuta attacks, giving India chemical warfare weaponry at Kargil, funding/aiding current militancy under US umbrella), Israel is very far-sighted in identifying and neutralizing threats. Given how hard they have worked to prevent the Arab countries from getting real BVR teeth to threaten Israel, the SD-10A/B and it's internals would be of great interest to the Israelis. They wouldn't be able to rest until they're satisfied that their EW/ECM packages can deter any threat from SD-10A/B, this is the only real BVR threat they're likely to come across. America already tampers with IFF systems so they can't target Israelis(Turkey), Europe/NATO bends backwards to accomodate Israel, billions of $$$ worth of weapons and submarines for free. All Israel has to do is ask, and the weapons they supply to Israel's adversaries stop being capable of threatening Israel in any way.

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## shbaziz

cb4 said:


> There is no reason to support Saudis.



In fact most of the Muslim countries are going through a post colonial period which itself is a legacy of colonial regeims and most of them are not free in true sense. Just hope that one day true representatives of Muslims would govern them.


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## PakShaheen79

Who can find thunder in this pic in two seconds ?

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## mjnaushad

^^^^

4th AC from bottom


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## PakShaheen79

a very satisfied Air Chief 






---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------




mjnaushad said:


> ^^^^
> 
> 4th AC from bottom



ELECTRAAAAAAAAAAA....!!!  Great bro.

---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------

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## Don Jaguar

I did it even before 1 second.


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## houshanghai

SOME VIDEOS

The chief designer of JF17 J10B J10S J20.YANGWEI introduce the PAK-china JFT project at dubai - YouTube

a demonstration flight of JF17 at dubai airshow 2011 - YouTube

PAF K8 trainer performing At Dubai Air Show 2011 - YouTube

PAF K8 trainer performing At Dubai Air Show 2011 - YouTube

PAF show various guided weapons of JF17 at dubai airshow - YouTube

---------- Post added at 11:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 AM ----------

The Secretary of Pakistan Defense visit the exhibition hall of PAF at dubai - YouTube
The Marshal of the Pakistan Air Force introducing JF17 thunder to journalists - YouTube
The Secretary of Pakistan Defense introducing JF17 thunder to journalists - YouTube
The Secretary of Pakistan Defense visit the exhibition hall of AVIC at dubai AIRSHOW - YouTube

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## regular

krash said:


> Then lets stop the tirades and the poking at them. Those poor Saudis came here excited and expectant of a warm welcome instead we only ridiculed and in result alienated them. They have, after all, stood by us for a very long time through thick and thin. On top of that those guys here themselves are very reasonable and respectable. They deserve it.
> 
> I normally stay out of such things but we've been excessively unjust towards them.
> 
> Sorry for going off topic but someone had to say something.


Sir!..I highly appreciate ure comments. We need to appreciate whatever the goodwill or cooporation they provide us in time of need . We are also looking for a suitable time to repay them back with thanx when they are need of our help...

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## SBD-3

aimarraul said:


> ?????C802AK?????????_??_???



Few more additions to this info
1- There is no difference between the SD-10 and PL-12 as broader word, LEOC itself considered PL-12 designation to be speculative and inaccurate and preferrs it to be referred solely as SD-10 sighting no difference in capability so as to product for domestic or export market.
2- SD-10 is a dual seeker missile capable of both passive and active homing. The passive seeker can detect a target in 200KM range while active seeker is said to have a range of 20KM
3- SD-10A is not the baseline version of BVR missile but an improved version over orignal SD-10. According to LOEC, the range of SD-10A is "greater" than baseline SD-10 (that is 70KM).
4- The kinetic performance of SD-10A is thought to be atleast at par or exceeding that of AIM-120 C series


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## Qasibr

Mann I really dislike this Defence Minister Ahmed Mukhtar. Some of the comments he makes about the JF17 end up embarrassing this aircraft internationally rather than helping it.

For example, the way he worded his statements about the JF17's affordability in that reuters interview(which Express Tribune, and all the other media sources copied from), talking about how this is so cheap you can buy three for the price of one F-16. Reading Alert5 comments after this, people were ridiculing Mukhtar's comments.. like "Lockheed: Well you can shoot down five JF17s on one F16". All the indo media jumped all over Mukhtar's statement, the western media took his poorly worded statement to portray that the JF17 was really a bottom-barrel cheap performance aircraft as well. Even the Chinese official(and they don't even operate this aircraft yet) giving the presentation in @houshanghai's videos above emphasizes that this is an ADVANCED lightweight aircraft, not some cheap toy that costs less and underwhelms.

Also, his statement about the Pakistan Aeronautics Complex being unable to meet PAF's requirements was very very retarded. That implies this aircraft isn't up-to-par to our requirements, though what he meant to say was the PAC wasn't producing JF17s fast enough to fulfill our own orders. He should have worded this better.

I especially liked the way the Air Chief presented JF17's case - *he mentioned that this was an ADVANCED lightweight, and also that it costs three times less than other aircraft that offer similar capabilities*. 

There is a big difference. Simply presenting the JF17 as some ultra-cheap aircraft makes it the butt of jokes, because people who don't know it's capabilities naturally assume we're emphasizing the cheap price because this is aircraft performs poorly.

On a kinder note, the anecdote that the Minister mentioned about the Chinese Premier was very touching - that when the Defence Minister visited China, he was told by the staff that the Chinese Premier Hu Jintao was in tears overcome with emotion on a recent to Pakistan, when he saw outside his aircraft's window and saw JF17s providing escort. But this makes me appreciate the Chinese Premier, not the Defence Minister though. This guy needs to get his foot out of his mouth.

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## Al Bhatti

Pics from the airshow

gulfnews : Dubai Airshow 2011 in pictures

Khaleej Times: Photo Gallery - general

---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 PM ----------

Nov 17, 2011

*Cash boost for Dubai World Central aviation plan*

A Dh1 billion (US$272.3 million) investment has been secured for Dubai World Central, the "aerotropolis" taking shape on the edge of Dubai.

The cash will pay for the first phase of development of the aviation district, designed to attract international businesses in aeronautical services and light manufacturing.

It will also pay for the relocation of the Dubai Airshow 2013 to the district from the existing site at Dubai International Airport. The move to a bigger site is likely to add thrust to the show's growing international profile.

"Dubai World Central is an integral component of the strategic vision of Dubai Government to establish the emirate as an international aviation hub and a gateway to global markets," said Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, the chairman of Dubai Aviation City Corporation, the company in charge of developing the $33 billion Dubai World Central.

"The aviation district has been holistically conceived to capitalise on the dynamic aviation industry of the UAE and the region," he said.

The aviation district, covering more than 6.8 square kilometres, will provide"land-side and air-side facilities" and will help to leverage the capacity of the new Al Maktoum International Airport, the company said. Officials hope the district will be able to capitalise on the strong growth in aviation in the region, the Indian subcontinent and China.

Close links to the nearby Jebel Ali Free Zone would help to cut "inter-modal" transport times.

The announcement comes as Dubai hopes gradually to shift aviation operations across the city from the existing site, Dubai International Airport in Deira.

Air traffic congestion and limited space on the ground for the aviation support industry restricts growth at the Deira site.

Al Maktoum airport entered service last year with the inauguration of cargo flights.

This will be followed by business aviation, and commercial passenger flights are scheduled to begin next year.

A passenger terminal will be opened at Dubai World Central by 2020 to handle 80 million passengers a year. "As evidenced by the recent investments being made in the aviation sector within the region, including Emirates Airline's purchase of 50 new aircraft during the Dubai Airshow, Dubai World Central is strategically positioned to service and cater to the needs of the region's rapidly expanding aviation sector," said Khalifa Al Zaffin, the executive chairman of Dubai Aviation City.

A heliport, an executive-jet terminal, covered aircraft parking stands, and areas for aircraft maintenance and repairs, and for operational and aeronautical support services will be provided in the aviation district. The venue of Dubai Airshow 2013 will encompass a larger area than the current facility, offering greater exhibition space and room for additional aircraft.

Dubai International has been the venue of the biennial event since 1989.

It has gradually established itself alongside the air shows of Paris and Farnborough in the UK as a venue for striking commercial, business and defence aviation deals.

The Dubai World Central development is intended to establish Dubai as one of the world's most important centres of trade, logistics and commerce.

In addition to five runways, terminals and warehouses, Dubai World Central's plans include residential and office space, manufacturing zones and golf courses.

Cash boost for Dubai World Central aviation plan - The National


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## Manticore




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## Last Hope

Today JF-17 will appear at 1450 local time. 1550 PST. Too bad I'll miss it.Going for surgery.
Crap. Someone better make a video and send me 

Self made video is better than professional.


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## SBD-3

Qasibr said:


> Mann I really dislike this Defence Minister Ahmed Mukhtar. Some of the comments he makes about the JF17 end up embarrassing this aircraft internationally rather than helping it.
> 
> For example, the way he worded his statements about the JF17's affordability in that reuters interview(which Express Tribune, and all the other media sources copied from), talking about how this is so cheap you can buy three for the price of one F-16. Reading Alert5 comments after this, people were ridiculing Mukhtar's comments.. like "Lockheed: Well you can shoot down five JF17s on one F16". All the indo media jumped all over Mukhtar's statement, the western media took his poorly worded statement to portray that the JF17 was really a bottom-barrel cheap performance aircraft as well. Even the Chinese official(and they don't even operate this aircraft yet) giving the presentation in @houshanghai's videos above emphasizes that this is an ADVANCED lightweight aircraft, not some cheap toy that costs less and underwhelms.
> 
> Also, his statement about the Pakistan Aeronautics Complex being unable to meet PAF's requirements was very very retarded. That implies this aircraft isn't up-to-par to our requirements, though what he meant to say was the PAC wasn't producing JF17s fast enough to fulfill our own orders. He should have worded this better.
> 
> I especially liked the way the Air Chief presented JF17's case - *he mentioned that this was an ADVANCED lightweight, and also that it costs three times less than other aircraft that offer similar capabilities*.
> 
> There is a big difference. Simply presenting the JF17 as some ultra-cheap aircraft makes it the butt of jokes, because people who don't know it's capabilities naturally assume we're emphasizing the cheap price because this is aircraft performs poorly.
> 
> On a kinder note, the anecdote that the Minister mentioned about the Chinese Premier was very touching - that when the Defence Minister visited China, he was told by the staff that the Chinese Premier Hu Jintao was in tears overcome with emotion on a recent to Pakistan, when he saw outside his aircraft's window and saw JF17s providing escort. But this makes me appreciate the Chinese Premier, not the Defence Minister though. This guy needs to get his foot out of his mouth.


Well you can expect this from a person who is as femiliar to defence as an average joe in street. Being minister doesnt mean he is qualified professional. The second statement made by him was correct to an extent because AFAIK, there was some contradiction between PAF and PAC on second batch of JFT (B II). PAF wanted it join the service ASAP involving some production from Chinese plant at CAC but Kamra suggested that to fully master the technology, it was essential that manufacturing would involve PAC. So he was correct that PAC was rather slow in filling the requirements for PAF. One would have to give them the benifit of doubt in first place as they will gradually accumulate expertise in manufacturing, the manufacturing speed should pick up.


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## DANGER-ZONE

Dubai Air Show - *Airliners* Exclusive 





Photographer's Comment.

*Chris Emmerson*: _"JF-17 Thunder displaying at the Dubai Airshow 2011, a very entertaining display [Nikon D7000 & Sigma 50-500 APO DG]"_

*Also a rare clear view of all Landing gear bays. *

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------

Dubai Air Show - *Airliner*s Exclusive

K-8

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## Windjammer




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## Qasibr

Qasibr said:


> Mann I really dislike this Defence Minister Ahmed Mukhtar. Some of the comments he makes about the JF17 end up embarrassing this aircraft internationally rather than helping it.
> 
> For example, the way he worded his statements about the JF17's affordability in that reuters interview(which Express Tribune, and all the other media sources copied from), talking about how this is so cheap you can buy three for the price of one F-16. Reading Alert5 comments after this, people were ridiculing Mukhtar's comments.. like "Lockheed: Well you can shoot down five JF17s on one F16". All the indo media jumped all over Mukhtar's statement, the western media took his poorly worded statement to portray that the JF17 was really a bottom-barrel cheap performance aircraft as well. Even the Chinese official(and they don't even operate this aircraft yet) giving the presentation in @houshanghai's videos above emphasizes that this is an ADVANCED lightweight aircraft, not some cheap toy that costs less and underwhelms.
> 
> Also, his statement about the Pakistan Aeronautics Complex being unable to meet PAF's requirements was very very retarded. That implies this aircraft isn't up-to-par to our requirements, though what he meant to say was the PAC wasn't producing JF17s fast enough to fulfill our own orders. He should have worded this better.
> 
> I especially liked the way the Air Chief presented JF17's case - *he mentioned that this was an ADVANCED lightweight, and also that it costs three times less than other aircraft that offer similar capabilities*.
> 
> There is a big difference. Simply presenting the JF17 as some ultra-cheap aircraft makes it the butt of jokes, because people who don't know it's capabilities naturally assume we're emphasizing the cheap price because this is aircraft performs poorly.
> 
> On a kinder note, the anecdote that the Minister mentioned about the Chinese Premier was very touching - that when the Defence Minister visited China, he was told by the staff that the Chinese Premier Hu Jintao was in tears overcome with emotion on a recent to Pakistan, when he saw outside his aircraft's window and saw JF17s providing escort. But this makes me appreciate the Chinese Premier, not the Defence Minister though. This guy needs to get his foot out of his mouth.





hasnain0099 said:


> Well you can expect this from a person who is as femiliar to defence as an average joe in street. Being minister doesnt mean he is qualified professional. The second statement made by him was correct to an extent because AFAIK, there was some contradiction between PAF and PAC on second batch of JFT (B II). PAF wanted it join the service ASAP involving some production from Chinese plant at CAC but Kamra suggested that to fully master the technology, it was essential that manufacturing would involve PAC. So he was correct that PAC was rather slow in filling the requirements for PAF. One would have to give them the benifit of doubt in first place as they will gradually accumulate expertise in manufacturing, the manufacturing speed should pick up.



Absolutely, my point was that he could have worded this better. 

The Azerbaijan news sources have also said that while they'd like to get this jet, the manufacturer(Pakistan Aeronautical Complex) is completely busy with PAF's own orders. They said they'll get this "in the nearest years", so it is also true that PAC is completely busy trying to fulfill PAF's own orders, but the Defence Minister could have phrased it better than saying that the PAC *failed* to meet Pakistan's requirements yet. 

A statement to the effect that, the current primary focus was on fulfilling Pakistan's critical orders/strength, would have sufficed. Our Air Chief's statement, which I put in bold up there, was much better than the Defence Minister's.

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## Dazzler

Qasibr said:


> Absolutely, my point was that he could have worded this better.
> 
> The Azerbaijan news sources have also said that while they'd like to get this jet, the manufacturer(Pakistan Aeronautical Complex) is completely busy with PAF's own orders. They said they'll get this "in the nearest years", so it is also true that PAC is completely busy trying to fulfill PAF's own orders, but the Defence Minister could have phrased it better than saying that the PAC *failed* to meet Pakistan's requirements yet. A statement to the effect that, the current primary focus was on fulfilling Pakistan's critical orders/strength, would have sufficed. Our Air Chief's statement, which I put in bold up there, was much better than the Defence Minister's.



These are "Jaali Degree" ministers so it is absurd to expect anything positive from them. We are governed by the worst of us!

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## PakShaheen79

Last Hope said:


> Sorry Shaheen Bhai. This picture isin't of Dubai Air Show. We have three JF-17s from 16th Squadron and apparently this 113 doesn't belong to 16th but 26th Squadron.



Thnaks bro. I stand corrected


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## regular

Qasibr said:


> Absolutely, my point was that he could have worded this better.
> 
> The Azerbaijan news sources have also said that while they'd like to get this jet, the manufacturer(Pakistan Aeronautical Complex) is completely busy with PAF's own orders. They said they'll get this "in the nearest years", so it is also true that PAC is completely busy trying to fulfill PAF's own orders, but the Defence Minister could have phrased it better than saying that the PAC *failed* to meet Pakistan's requirements yet.
> A statement to the effect that, the current primary focus was on fulfilling Pakistan's critical orders/strength, would have sufficed. Our Air Chief's statement, which I put in bold up there, was much better than the Defence Minister's.



I guess we can speed up the manufacturing process by doubling up the assebly lines both in here and in China to meet up the export orderz....nothing is so hard to do.....


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## abaseen99

PAF K8 trainer performing At Dubai Air Show 2011 - YouTube


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## Edevelop

Qasibr said:


> Absolutely, my point was that he could have worded this better.
> 
> The Azerbaijan news sources have also said that while they'd like to get this jet, the manufacturer(Pakistan Aeronautical Complex) is completely busy with PAF's own orders. They said they'll get this "in the nearest years", so it is also true that PAC is completely busy trying to fulfill PAF's own orders, but the Defence Minister could have phrased it better than saying that the PAC *failed* to meet Pakistan's requirements yet.
> 
> 
> A statement to the effect that, the current primary focus was on fulfilling Pakistan's critical orders/strength, would have sufficed. *Our Air Chief's statement, which I put in bold up there, was much better than the Defence Minister's*.



Obviously, the air chief is a pilot so he knows his stuff. Our defence minister doesn't know $hit. What good knowledgeable ministers are out there anyways in Pakistan?

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## abaseen99

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------


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## Areesh

nabil_05 said:


> These are "Jaali Degree" ministers so it is absurd to expect anything positive from them. We are governed by the worst of us!



Our defense minister can give you good info about jootai(shoes). He isn't that useless after all.


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## SBD-3

nabil_05 said:


> These are "Jaali Degree" ministers so it is absurd to expect anything positive from them. We are governed by the worst of us!


"Degree, Degree hoti hay, Asli ho ya Jali ho".....

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## abaseen99

hasnain0099 said:


> "Degree, Degree hoti hay, Asli ho ya Jali ho".....


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## abaseen99

Pakistan said that Azerbaijan intends to purchase China-Pakistan Joint Xiaolong fighter production
2011-11-16 11:04 Global network of military 
Enhance the production capacity of Pakistan Xiaolong 3 next-generation machine or into the export country
Summary: Dubai, United Arab Emirates to participate in the International Air Show is the Pakistan Air Consortium (PAC) on behalf of the company official said November 15, Azerbaijan to buy Pakistani joint production of the FC-1 "Fierce Dragon" (JF-17 "Lightning") fighter .


&#12288;&#12288;According to Russian military news network reported November 16, is the United Arab Emirates Dubai to participate in international exhibitions of Pakistan Airlines consortium (PAC) on behalf of the company official said on November 15, Azerbaijan to buy Pakistani joint production of the FC-1 "Fierce Dragon" (JF-17 "Lightning") fighter.


&#12288;&#12288;Pakistan International Airlines to accept the Commonwealth's official representative in Azerbaijan, the media, said, A delegation carefully watched the "Fierce Dragon" fighter in the Dubai air show flight demonstration on the whole process. Alfonso expressed interest in purchasing the "Fierce Dragon" fighter. Baa two sides have been negotiating on this issue, but has not yet progressed to the trading phase. Pakistan Air Force, now the company is fulfilling purchase orders, export to Azerbaijan "Fierce Dragon" program may be implemented within the next few years. But the two sides have established an initial supply. Compared with the MiG-29 aircraft, the "Fierce Dragon" have similar or even more advanced series of performance indicators, such as greater mobility. Get this plane, the Azerbaijan Air Force's combat will be significantly improved.


&#12288;&#12288;Pakistan's official representative pointed out that the relations are at a higher level of Baa, Pakistani official support A Fangli field and A territorial integrity. Taking full account of these relationships, then Alfonso procurement "Fierce Dragon" fighter will not be a problem. And from next year, Pakistan will cooperate with the development of new avionics and weapons systems of the "Fierce Dragon-Block2" upgrade products, aircraft performance will be further improved.

????????????????????_??_???

&#12288;&#12288;"Fierce Dragon" aircraft length 14.97 m, the maximum weight of 12.474 tons, the maximum speed of 1909 km, combat radius of 1352 km. Model 23-2 with a 23 mm double-barreled guns can be mounted 4-air guided missile, a ground guided missiles, a non-guided missiles, four Mk.82 type or GBU-10/GBU-12 aerial bombs . (Compiled: Shu-shan) &#9733;


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## Dazzler

i have breaking news but still needs confirmation. My source at the show tells that Arabs are stunned by JFTs performance and many inquiries are being made. Even more breaking is that Qatar has placed an Oder for 20 JFTs!

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## regular

nabil_05 said:


> i have breaking news but still needs confirmation. My source at the show tells that Arabs are stunned by JFTs performance and many inquiries are being made. Even more breaking is that Qatar has placed an Oder for 20 JFTs!


Yes! for sure it will be confirmed soon...I am expecting the same news too....aap key moonh mein GHEE SHAKKAR our MITHAI BARRFI. Alhamdolillah!.....

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## Dazzler

i know it might sound childish but.....

YAHOOOOOOOO !!!!!! 

Pak-Cheen dosti Zindabad!!

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## Last Hope

Qatar... 

Nabil bhai, wait for the final news.
*
My intelligence (with rough input from my sources) say that nearly most of the Middile East, some African nations, north-west Asia and a country from East Asia will buy the Thunder.*

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## Qasibr

Qatar's a wealthy country, but the majority of it's air-power is currently based on Mirage-2000s. JF17s equal or exceed their performance in many areas, so this would be a good fit.

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## Windjammer

*Arab newspapers gave special coverage to the PAF's participation in Dubai Air show. *

PAF fighter jets display might at Dubai Airshow
ISLAMABAD The country demonstrated its ability to protect its skies at the Dubai Airshow-2011 when its fighter aircraft, JF-17 (Thunder), K-8 and Super Mashak, performed various acrobatics and flaunted its hi-end combat features.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is one of the many participants from around the world at the air show, which was inaugurated by Prime Minister of UAE, Sheikh Muhammad Bin Rashid Al Makhtoum on Sunday.

Chief of air staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman attended the inaugural ceremony.

The JF-17 (Thunder), K-8 and Super Mashak aircraft were on display.

The JF-17 (Thunder) jointly developed and produced by Pakistan and China has been put up for static as well as aerial display at the air show, media reports said.

The JF-17 is equipped with fourth generation avionics systems, wide range of conventional and smart weapons, long range glide bombs, Beyond Visual Range and short range air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missile and air-to-surface missiles.

Oman Tribune - the edge of knowledge

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## Last Hope

Thunder is a dependable, multi-role fighter which would fit perfectly in many places. From Air-to-Air to Anti-Submarine. From JDAMs to ALCM. And the major fact is the order list isin't long yet and delivery wont take long. And it is cost effective, so many Arabs are eyeing it.

How ever, I personally think the first batch would be sold to Bangladesh.

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## regular

Last Hope said:


> Thunder is a dependable, multi-role fighter which would fit perfectly in many places. From Air-to-Air to Anti-Submarine. From JDAMs to ALCM. And the major fact is the order list isin't long yet and delivery wont take long. And it is cost effective, so many Arabs are eyeing it.
> 
> How ever, I personally think the first batch would be sold to Bangladesh.


Its possible but not realli.It will go as first come first serve basis....


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## Manticore

nabil_05 said:


> i have breaking news but still needs confirmation. My source at the show tells that Arabs are stunned by JFTs performance and many inquiries are being made. Even more breaking is that Qatar has placed an Oder for 20 JFTs!



considering they already have m2k , this will send a very bold and strong statement in terms of jft's capabilities, granted this news is correct--- apke mune mei ghee shakar!

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## regular

ANTIBODY said:


> considering they already have m2k , this will send a very bold and strong statement in terms of jft's capabilities, granted this news is correct--- apke mune mei ghee shakar!


Infact Thunders took over the French market.....Alhamdolillah!.....


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## Last Hope

At the same rate, it soon will be a competent for F-16.

Got this from facebook:


> So finally JF-17 gaining interest. Expected orders from Azerbaijan, Egypt, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait, Bangladesh, S.Africa, Turkey and other unconfirmed nations.
> 
> PAF must conducted 3-4 more air shows with Thunder in other parts of Middle East and ex-USSR nations.
> 
> Unconfirmed reports also suggest China is considering induction of over 1000 Thunders. Now you got the answer to the Question raised by Indian media 'JF-17. Thunder or blunder?'

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## SBD-3

Qasibr said:


> Qatar's a wealthy country, but the majority of it's air-power is currently based on Mirage-2000s. JF17s equal or exceed their performance in many areas, so this would be a good fit.


JFT packs a both the punch and price advantage....The customer can have the full range of ammunition with it.....The only one more thing i would like to see now is JFT with C-802AKG, that will seal the faith of all its competitors and complete the full spectrum of multirole operations.

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## DANGER-ZONE

thats great news fellas if it turns true


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## regular

hasnain0099 said:


> JFT packs a both the punch and price advantage....The customer can have the full range of ammunition with it.....The only one more thing i would like to see now is JFT with C-802AKG, that will seal the faith of all its competitors and complete the full spectrum of multirole operations.


I guess this has been tested with the prototype 6 a week ago in China recently..its pics came out on the forum too.HouseofShangai posted them..

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## Last Hope

Here you go! ^^


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## SBD-3

Last Hope said:


> At the same rate, it soon will be a competent for F-16.
> 
> Got this from facebook:


Thats some news!......But i do have some doubt...Has there been an evaluation from Qatar? because at least there would have been one and some negotiations as well, staight order is very unlikely......And 1000 JFTs for China.....That is huge! means we can even have block II well below the price of Block I!

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## Emmie

Last Hope said:


> Here you go! ^^



One in the picture is C-802A.... Recently pt was tested with C-802A or C-803, not with C-802AKG...

802AKG is more advanced version, with the range of more than 200 Kms while 802A has range of 180 Kms.

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## SBD-3

Last Hope said:


> Here you go! ^^


This is 802AK the antiship missile....China has also developed another air launched- land attack version of this missile. There is another interesting "Multirole" Missile developed by China, let me post the details....

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## Last Hope

hasnain0099 said:


> Thats some news!.........Have there been an evaluation from Qatar, because at least there would have been going......And 1000 JFTs for China.....That is huge! means we can even have block II well below the price of Block I!


I got the figure of 1000 JF-17s for PLAAF from the JF-17 thread 4.
Our Researcher ANTIBODY posted it, from a columnist of Jang as source. 
Cannot be sure. But yeah, China will raise Squadrons of Thunders, that is confirmed. This decision was made after performance in huhai. 


Emmie said:


> One in the picture is C-802A.... Recently pt was tested with C-802A or C-803, not with C-802AKG...
> 
> 802AKG is more advanced version, with the range of more than 200 Kms while 802A has range of 180 Kms.


Yeah I saw that. Thank you. The Thunder in that prototype is equipped with SD-10 and WS-13.


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## Doctor09

guys i have a question how will we manage to produce JF 17 for other countries if we get order of 100 JF 17s at least and at the same time China also go for thunders for PLAAF ............ our current production rate is 25 thunders year ..........we have our own demands for thunder at the same time ..... how it will become possible that we cope with big orders ?


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## Imran Khan

doctor09 said:


> guys i have a question how will we manage to produce JF 17 for other countries if we get order of 100 JF 17s at least and at the same time China also go for thunders for PLAAF ............ our current production rate is 25 thunders year ..........we have our own demands for thunder at the same time ..... how it will become possible that we cope with big orders ?



we are working on kamra assembly line dear but if we got order we can spent that money first on establish new assembly line for that order simply

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## Emmie

What is the status of WS-13, will it supplant RD-93 in impending block II?


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## Areesh

Bangladesh isn't an option now. They aren't buying any aircraft for now.


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## SBD-3

Areesh said:


> Bangladesh isn't an option now. They aren't buying any aircraft for now.


H Khan released this word that Bangladesh is "very likely" to select JFT as their future fighter...there is also a thread in BD on this.

---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------




Emmie said:


> What is the status of WS-13, will it supplant RD-93 in impending block II?


RD-93 will be insufficient in Block II due to additional weight added by AESA. RD-33MK and WS-13(B?) are the likely contenders


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## Abu Zolfiqar

i doubt Bangladesh will ink a deal for the JFT; i know of no actual plan for the BAF to induct or even look into inducting new aircrafts, they have a small fleet of Mig-29s already

Azerbaijan, Nigeria and a few other countries are still showing keen interest. Qatar is new to me, but a possible deal for 20 aircrafts could be very encouraging

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## untitled

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i doubt Bangladesh will ink a deal for the JFT; i know of no actual plan for the BAF to induct or even look into inducting new aircrafts, they have a small fleet of Mig-29s already



Wont they eventually replace their F-7s ?


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## SBD-3

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i doubt Bangladesh will ink a deal for the JFT; i know of no actual plan for the BAF to induct or even look into inducting new aircrafts, they have a small fleet of Mig-29s already
> 
> Azerbaijan, Nigeria and a few other countries are still showing keen interest. Qatar is new to me, but a possible deal for 20 aircrafts could be very encouraging


They certainly will if they can flying F-7s for infinity.......With Indian Military Buildup, I see not only BD but also Srilanka eventually opting for JFT....


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## untitled

Areesh said:


> Bangladesh isn't an option now. They aren't buying any aircraft for now.



Well we may have started manufacturing but we still have a long way to go to become good sellers

Is it not the motto of arms dealers around the world to sell weapons one does not need and convince them they do


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## Abu Zolfiqar

varigeo said:


> Wont they eventually replace their F-7s ?



their F-7s aren't that old

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## Emmie

hasnain0099 said:


> RD-93 will be insufficient in Block II due to additional weight added by AESA. RD-33MK and WS-13(B?) are the likely contenders



Nice to hear RD-33MK or WS-13 in lieu of RD-93... In either cases we gonna have smokeless block II..

Are we in contact with Russians for RD-33MK? It is their latest variant of RD-33 after all.

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## Hasnain2009

we should not sell it to bangladesh, they wont buy more than 20 and bangladesh is puppet of india, india can get their hands on thunder via bangladesh.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

we are waiting anxiously but patiently for WS-13 program to reach fruition


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## untitled

Hasnain2009 said:


> we should not sell it to bangladesh, they wont buy more than 20 and bangladesh is puppet of india, india can get their hands on thunder via bangladesh.



Well I don't think there is any classified technology in JF-17 or is there ?


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## Emmie

BAF will replace their A5 at first...


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## regular

Emmie said:


> One in the picture is C-802A.... Recently pt was tested with C-802A or C-803, not with C-802AKG...
> 
> 802AKG is more advanced version, with the range of more than 200 Kms while 802A has range of 180 Kms.


Nabil also discussed over the C-803 we will have on Thunders blockII will be having range more than 250km....for the Naval version.You can checkout Nabils posts on the C803 discussions. He said PAF don't wanna expose the range right now. U can find his posts within/under the Naval threads...so we don't have to worry anything in case of range cuz We got it what China got....

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## SBD-3

Emmie said:


> Nice to hear RD-33MK or WS-13 in lieu of RD-93... In either cases we gonna have smokeless block II..
> 
> Are we in contact with Russians for RD-33MK? It is their latest variant of RD-33 after all.


I dont know whether they are smokeless or not (WS-13, I think, is) but we will certainly have the right amount of power to support the new block, thats what matters the most.Russians did put up their RD-33MK at China Airshow last year....why would they be there when no aircraft in China uses RD-93.....I think this should be enough hint.


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## Areesh

hasnain0099 said:


> H Khan released this word that Bangladesh is "very likely" to select JFT as their future fighter...there is also a thread in BD on this.


 Well I hope what khan sahab is true and they do buy JFT but what I have read on this forum and other forums it looks like they wont buy any combat aircraft for now. They are going to buy new SAMs to improve air defence. Infact they are going to receive few more F-7bg from china. Not to forget AL govt factor is also there.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

F-7BGs are actually a fantastic aircraft


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## SBD-3

Areesh said:


> Well I hope what khan sahab is true and they do buy JFT but what I have read on this forum and other forums it looks like they wont buy any combat aircraft for now. They are going to buy new SAMs to improve air defence. Infact they are going to receive few more F-7bg from china. Not to forget AL govt factor is also there.


There are few things which are essential in BD context
1-Though they are Building a SAM network (which is an essential part of AF's strategy) but in the modern arena, unless you don't have the long range SAM or air-cover over them, they are always exposed to a threat we call Stand off precision weaponry. With the pace of Indian military modernization, they are always exposed unless they don't have potent systems to defend this network. The combination of two goes hand in glove, both ensure eachother's effectiveness and survivability. 
2-It may be true that their needs for more combat aircraft be minimal at this time, but in the dynamic threat environment of sub continent its not necessary that they will keep the things as they are i.e. a bar on fighter procurement. 
3- Military and government relations are not necessarily dependent upon each other. Do you know Israeli Cadets regularly come to Pakistan for different training programs?

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## Last Hope

hasnain0099 said:


> There are few things which are essential in BD context
> 1-Though they are Building a SAM network (which is an essential part of AF's strategy) but in the modern arena, unless you don't have the long range SAM or air-cover over them, they are always exposed to a threat we call Stand off precision weaponry. With the pace of Indian military modernization, they are always exposed unless they don't have potent systems to defend this network. The combination of two goes hand in glove, both ensure eachother's effectiveness and survivability.
> 2-It may be true that their needs for more combat aircraft be minimal at this time, but in the dynamic threat environment of sub continent its not necessary that they will keep the things as they are i.e. a bar on fighter procurement.
> *3- Military and government relations are not necessarily dependent upon each other. Do you know Israeli Cadets regularly come to Pakistan for different training programs?*


Whattttttt?!
I never knew it! Explain in details please!

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## Bratva

hasnain0099 said:


> There are few things which are essential in BD context
> 1-Though they are Building a SAM network (which is an essential part of AF's strategy) but in the modern arena, unless you don't have the long range SAM or air-cover over them, they are always exposed to a threat we call Stand off precision weaponry. With the pace of Indian military modernization, they are always exposed unless they don't have potent systems to defend this network. The combination of two goes hand in glove, both ensure eachother's effectiveness and survivability.
> 2-It may be true that their needs for more combat aircraft be minimal at this time, but in the dynamic threat environment of sub continent its not necessary that they will keep the things as they are i.e. a bar on fighter procurement.
> 3- Military and government relations are not necessarily dependent upon each other. *Do you know Israeli Cadets regularly come to Pakistan for different training programs*?



that's a news to me!


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## untitled

Last Hope said:


> Whattttttt?!
> I never knew it! Explain in details please!



Yes please

I remember quite vividly the Israeli cricket officials launched a protest when they were not allowed to visit Pakistan during the 96 world cup


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## Imran Khan

hasnain0099 said:


> There are few things which are essential in BD context
> 1-Though they are Building a SAM network (which is an essential part of AF's strategy) but in the modern arena, unless you don't have the long range SAM or air-cover over them, they are always exposed to a threat we call Stand off precision weaponry. With the pace of Indian military modernization, they are always exposed unless they don't have potent systems to defend this network. The combination of two goes hand in glove, both ensure eachother's effectiveness and survivability.
> 2-It may be true that their needs for more combat aircraft be minimal at this time, but in the dynamic threat environment of sub continent its not necessary that they will keep the things as they are i.e. a bar on fighter procurement.
> 3- Military and government relations are not necessarily dependent upon each other. *Do you know Israeli Cadets regularly come to Pakistan for different training programs?*



then why not Indians ? we recognize India since 1947


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## ChineseTiger1986

Emmie said:


> What is the status of WS-13, will it supplant RD-93 in impending block II?



It will enter into the mass production stage by 2012.

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## Skywalker

hasnain0099 said:


> There are few things which are essential in BD context
> 1-Though they are Building a SAM network (which is an essential part of AF's strategy) but in the modern arena, unless you don't have the long range SAM or air-cover over them, they are always exposed to a threat we call Stand off precision weaponry. With the pace of Indian military modernization, they are always exposed unless they don't have potent systems to defend this network. The combination of two goes hand in glove, both ensure eachother's effectiveness and survivability.
> 2-It may be true that their needs for more combat aircraft be minimal at this time, but in the dynamic threat environment of sub continent its not necessary that they will keep the things as they are i.e. a bar on fighter procurement.
> 3- Military and government relations are not necessarily dependent upon each other. *Do you know Israeli Cadets regularly come to Pakistan for different training programs?*




Where this comes from, would you care to explain your source or you have just thrown this in the air, tomorrow you might say the Indians are also attending our academies. Sorry cant swallow that.


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## Imran Khan

varigeo said:


> Yes please
> 
> I remember quite vividly the Israeli cricket officials launched a protest when they were not allowed to visit Pakistan during the 96 world cup



not only this but how the hell they got visa on passports ? who allow them to fly to pakistan? and which pakistani embassy stamp on there Israeli passports ?

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## Emmie

@Nabil_05... Sir, please have your say on possible engine of JFT block II.. RD-33MK is what I came across with today..


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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> not only this but how the hell they got visa on passports ? who allow them to fly to pakistan? and which pakistani embassy stamp on there Israeli passports ?



Sir jee woh ISI ke special plane mein atay hein......


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## Bratva

P shamim has already hinted, China is working with Ukraine to increase the thrust of RD-93


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## Imran Khan

Emmie said:


> Sir jee woh ISI ke special plane mein atay hein......



yaar i am really serious on this issue they use turkey ? may be with turkish passports and via turkey ? ardugaan allow it ?


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## untitled

Imran Khan said:


> yaar i am really serious on this issue they use turkey ? may be with turkish passports and via turkey ? ardugaan allow it ?



And their reason for coming ?


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## Imran Khan

varigeo said:


> And their reason for coming ?



as others dear learn the tactics and warfare from pakistani schools of war .


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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> yaar i am really serious on this issue they use turkey ? may be with turkish passports and via turkey ? ardugaan allow it ?



IMHO its a myth, legally its not possible.. If ISI allows them to come to Pakistan then they don't even need any passport.. Its not possible for Israelis to come to Pakistan *regularly *without being intercepted by ISI.

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## Imran Khan

Emmie said:


> IMHO its a myth, legally its not possible.. If ISI allows them to come to Pakistan then they don't even need any passport.. Its not possible for Israelis to come to Pakistan *regularly *without being intercepted by ISI.



and why should ISI do it ? i really don't see its needed may be for secret visits and talks ok but training courses and allow israili military men on pakistani land look to me big no


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## Dazzler

blk 2 for now will have rd-93, ws-13 needs more time to fit in JFT but i believe it eventually will be be fitted.

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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> and why should ISI do it ? i really don't see its needed may be for secret visits and talks ok but* training courses and allow israili military men on pakistani land look to me big no*



Exactly what I am saying "not possible" No way they can come to Pakistan for training purpose.


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## untitled

Emmie said:


> Exactly what I am saying "not possible" No way they can come to Pakistan for training purpose.



And yes ....Would Israel risk sending its cadets here ?


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## Emmie

varigeo said:


> And yes ....Would Israel risk sending its cadets here ?



Who cares their risks?? For the sake of a reply, yes, they won't risk their cadets...

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## notorious_eagle

nabil_05 said:


> i have breaking news but still needs confirmation. My source at the show tells that Arabs are stunned by JFTs performance and many inquiries are being made. Even more breaking is that Qatar has placed an Oder for 20 JFTs!



Sir not sure about Qatar, but an order for Azerbaijan is almost confirmed. They were interested for a long time and the performance during the Dubai Air Show pretty much sealed the deal. Although the JF17 they will be acquiring will be completely different than what PAF is using, it will be totally based on Chinese avionics and weaponry.


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## krash

cb4 said:


> There is no reason to support Saudis.


 
Then wonder why they have supported us through the years and financed many of our projects......



hasnain0099 said:


> The erieyes you see are a gift from the country you find no reason to support.....



Not to mention the financing for the F-16s and our nuclear program. Im leaving the civil and political side alone for now. A quick question: Does Pakistan get its oil at international market prices?

Stop it with the holier than thou attitude. Appreciate and acknowledge when someone has been true to you.

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## regular

Areesh said:


> Our defense minister can give you good info about jootai(shoes). He isn't that useless after all.


Yeah the politicians are useful only in telling lies to the public, decieving them and selling out the country for pennies.......


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## regular

Imran Khan said:


> yaar i am really serious on this issue they use turkey ? may be with turkish passports and via turkey ? ardugaan allow it ?


Yes! ure guess is right they can use any country's passport to enter our country, there is no doubt about that...


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## SBD-3

Skywalker said:


> [/B]
> 
> Where this comes from, would you care to explain your source or you have just thrown this in the air, tomorrow you might say the Indians are also attending our academies. Sorry cant swallow that.


I was also shocked when somebody (who is in services) told me about this, and this is not a thing which is exceptional, his word was that this is done with goodwill gesture from Pakistan but those cadets were usually strictly anti-pakistan minded.

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## Adios Amigo

hasnain0099 said:


> I was also shocked when somebody (who is in services) told me about this, and this is not a thing which is exceptional, his word was that this is done with goodwill gesture from Pakistan but those cadets were usually strictly anti-pakistan minded.



Backdoor diplomatic channels are all we have with Israel..... nothing of that sort ever happened....either your source is misinformed or he might have given you wrong information for some other reasons!

Anyways lets get back to the topic! 


Somebody mentioned Qatar going for thunders...that to me is highly unlikely.....but if it ever happens.... this would be nothing short surprise..... and a very pleasant one..... I mean its like hitting six of the first ball of the match.... a developing cash strapped country going for thunders is one thing but a petro rich nation like Qatar placing orders will set the tone apart.... and not to mention the bandwagon effect its going to create.... but for me its only a rumor so far...as they say ....see is to believe!

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## Qasibr

hasnain0099 said:


> I was also shocked when somebody (who is in services) told me about this, and this is not a thing which is exceptional, his word was that this is done with goodwill gesture from Pakistan but those cadets were usually strictly anti-pakistan minded.



Hasnain my friend, you have some interesting&peculiar information sources. 

The possibility that Israeli cadets would come to Pakistan is really very strange. Our Arab friends would react very strongly, and Israel's cadets(are you talking about flight cadets or army or flight cadets what... ) enjoy alot more flight-hours of practice than ours. And we don't even recognize their country or have any diplomatic ties with them. So the prospect of them sending their cadets over is indeed a little unusual.

Back on-topic to the JFT, you also reported that there was some dispute between the PAF and PAC, due to the PAF wanting to induct Block-II immediately and PAC wanting to manufacture it... This was also really interesting and unusual, because we haven't heard this from anywhere else.


hasnain0099 said:


> The second statement made by him was correct to an extent because AFAIK, *there was some contradiction between PAF and PAC on second batch of JFT (B II). PAF wanted it join the service ASAP involving some production from Chinese plant at CAC but Kamra suggested that to fully master the technology*, it was essential that manufacturing would involve PAC.



Like I said, you have interesting sources . I hope you don't mind my saying this.


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## Sinnerman108

nabil_05 said:


> i have breaking news but still needs confirmation. My source at the show tells that Arabs are stunned by JFTs performance and many inquiries are being made. Even more breaking is that Qatar has placed an Oder for 20 JFTs!



Nabil,
Again , please post more details, 
I am still waiting for some thing that can help me qualify these news.
..... post some thing in support of this news


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## abaseen99

PAF&#39;s K-8 piloted by Sqn Ldr Fazil Khaliq performs aerobatics over Dubai Air Show 2011 - YouTube

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## regular

Emmie said:


> One in the picture is C-802A.... Recently pt was tested with C-802A or C-803, not with C-802AKG...
> 
> 802AKG is more advanced version, with the range of more than 200 Kms while 802A has range of 180 Kms.


Sir! the range of C803 is more than the C802 series missiles i.e. the C802AKG is lower in range than C803. The C803 ground to ground verion is 200km range while air launched version is 250Km range. YJ-83 is its local name in China whereas its export name is C803..checkout the last paragraph in the link.There is another version C805 which has range =500Km under development but that might go to ground version..

MissileThreat :: YJ-83


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## TARIQ BN ZIYAAD

Assalam alaikum

aap ka bhai hathon say to lar lay ta hay lekin koi weapon use nahi ker na a ta and i have zero knowledge of machinery but love to read the post. 

Arab countries buying jf17 ( including some gulf countries ) yeh soch ker hi mua may pani a gaya not bcoz of the money earned but the cooperation ,trust which can be further develop to another level

TARIQ

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## Mav3rick

krash said:


> Then wonder why they have supported us through the years and financed many of our projects......
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the financing for the F-16s and our nuclear program. Im leaving the civil and political side alone for now. A quick question: *Does Pakistan get its oil at international market prices?*
> 
> Stop it with the holier than thou attitude. Appreciate and acknowledge when someone has been true to you.



Yes, Pakistan buys Oil from Saudi Arabia at international rates as those rates are set by OPEC and all OPEC countries have to abide by the rules. However, Saudi Arabia has on many occasions, I believe, given Pakistan the Oil at deferred payments, the deferred payments have been converted to loans on many occasions finally the loans have been written off

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## SEAL

Beside JF-17 i am very impressed with the Super Mushak and K-8 they are very good for pilot training and we need to upgrade them with latest technologies.


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## houshanghai



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## Emmie

regular said:


> Sir! the range of C803 is more than the C802 series missiles i.e. the C802AKG is lower in range than C803. The C803 ground to ground verion is 200km range while air launched version is 250Km range. YJ-83 is its local name in China whereas its export name is C803..checkout the last paragraph in the link.There is another version C805 which has range =500Km under development but that might go to ground version..
> 
> MissileThreat :: YJ-83



Sir jee! I know immaculately about the anti-ship missile technology of China. Undoubtedly C-803 is a different entity, it has longer range than C-802 and its variants..

I was comparing C-802A and CM-802AKG (both of same series).... CM-802AKG is more sophisticated than C-802, only this was my point.. You are right YJ-85 would be a land-attack cruise missile variant of YJ-8 family

BTW we are using both YJ-83(C-803) and YJ-82A(C-802A).... Thankx to China for her support....

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## Qasibr

What's next for JF17 after the Dubai Airshow?

I know we have Farnborrough 2012, but any other airshows confirmed by the PAF? Out of the three we've had so far(Farn 2010, Izmir, Zhuhai), Dubai has been the most informative. I also seems like this generated the most amount of interest among prospective buyers.


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## regular

Emmie said:


> Sir jee! I know immaculately about the anti-ship missile technology of China. Undoubtedly C-803 is a different entity, it has longer range than C-802 and its variants..
> 
> I was comparing C-802A and CM-802AKG (both of same series).... CM-802AKG is more sophisticated than C-802, only this was my point.. You are right YJ-85 would be a land-attack cruise missile variant of YJ-8 family
> 
> BTW we are using both YJ-83(C-803) and YJ-82A(C-802A).... Thankx to China for her support....


Yes! the C802AKG has more range than C802A cuz later has 200Km range while C802A has 180km.


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## abaseen99




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## abaseen99




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## air marshal



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## air marshal



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## air marshal



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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99

---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

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## Najam Khan

Some thoughts i decided to pen down

*Analysis of Thunders performance at Dubai Air show 2011*
Posted on November 18, 2011 by Najam Khan

On the event of Dubai air show 2011, PAC and CAC has send three JF-17 Thunder aircraft to attend the show. Four aircraft, all belonging from No.16 Sqn of PAF took off from their home base Minhas AB, Kamra on 10th Nov 2011. The fourth aircraft being a reserve aircraft was a part of the formation which returned from Masroor AB, Karachi.
Out of the remaining three, two were members of air display team, where as the third one was seen sitting at the static display for public display. Most of the state-of-the-art weapons in JF-17s arsenal were also displayed at the static display, which include PL-5E Short Range Air-to-Air Missile SRAAM, SD-10A Beyond Visual Range(BVR) Air-to-Air Missile, 1000lbs LS-6 Extended-range guided bomb, 1000lbs LT-2 Laser Guided Bomb (LGB), C-802AK Air Launched Anti-shipping Missile, WMD-7 Day/Night detection and targeting pod.
On Nov 13, a JF-17 put on a decent air display in front on large crowd. In some eight and a half minutes air show, the pilot demonstrated the strength and potential of the aircraft. Starting on with a slight 10 alpha turn to the left, followed an aileron roll the pilot completed a Cuban-8 maneuver. In the next part of the show, the pilot took the aircraft to its limits, displaying its agility under different altitude of flight. The performance of the aircraft was very impressive, high-G turns, inverted flying, vertical climb and deep dives were all that were expected from Pakistani team which have showed their talent in the past.

From PAFs performance at Zhuahi, Izmir and now Dubai it is certain that a lot of high-maneuvering and deep stall testing has been done on JF-17s. During the course of such testing they multiple weapon configurations with different center of gravity (CG) are tried. The worst case is tested when centerline tanks or centerline pods are intact. Getting in a deep stall with a 50-60 deg Angel-of-Attack (AOA) and then recovering within minimum cycles is all that is needed. JF-17s computer compares values of pitch, Angle-of-Attack, speed and attitude with default values of normal stall. Based on its instincts it decides to recover automatically.
The big reason why F-16 and Mirage pilots are selected for JF-17 program is that they have too much expertise in maneuvering training (both normal and high AOA maneuvering), which is a per-requisite for test and evaluation. Getting knowledge about aircrafts aerodynamics, flight characteristics, recovery techniques and handling procedures is all that is required before going in the air.
From the Nov 13th, JF-17s performance it was also worth noting that during the landing approach the pilot positioned itself in the landing bracket from a high AOA to a 13 deg landing in a very small time. Needless to say, the landing was also smooth as silkan example for young pilots too!
What is even more interesting is that, during the landing the pilot exhibits professionalism in managing the back pressure and speed. He is also seen managing horizontal stabilizers extensively to complete his perfect landing. Albeit JF-17 requires drogue chute to land under 850m runway, but this air display is enough evidence to disprove it.
During Exercise High Mark 2010, PAF Mirage-VEL and F-7PG aircraft participated in road landings at Motorway. JF-17s landing (823m) and takeoff distance (610m) allows it to be deployed to any small air strip of road at the time of need, thus fulfilling the needs of a true Multirole fighter.

Youtube JF-17 performance at Dubai Airshow - Nov 13, 2011

Blog post's Link

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## Dazzler

salman108 said:


> Nabil,
> Again , please post more details,
> I am still waiting for some thing that can help me qualify these news.
> ..... post some thing in support of this news



I cant post more details brother, reason is obvious as we are on a public forum afterall, all i can say that a close friend of mine had a detailed discussion with someone involved in the project, at the stand there. By the way, my friend at the show, is a civilian.


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## abaseen99

PAF JF-17 Thunder on Static Display at Dubai Airshow 2011 - YouTube


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## SBD-3

Qasibr said:


> Hasnain my friend, you have some interesting&peculiar information sources.
> 
> The possibility that Israeli cadets would come to Pakistan is really very strange. Our Arab friends would react very strongly, and Israel's cadets(are you talking about flight cadets or army or flight cadets what... ) enjoy alot more flight-hours of practice than ours. And we don't even recognize their country or have any diplomatic ties with them. So the prospect of them sending their cadets over is indeed a little unusual.
> 
> Back on-topic to the JFT, you also reported that there was some dispute between the PAF and PAC, due to the PAF wanting to induct Block-II immediately and PAC wanting to manufacture it... This was also really interesting and unusual, because we haven't heard this from anywhere else.
> 
> 
> Like I said, you have interesting sources . I hope you don't mind my saying this.


Sir I have clarified earlier that I dont have any special "sources" like anybody else. I gather my information from reading through different information sources (ATW,JDW, Books on the topic etc). The guy was a senior officer in navy and was traveling with me. We get to know each other as he started discussing his activities in a usual manner he expected least from others, When I started discussing the things I know, he got fairly impressed and we started a rather open discussion, when I asked about trainings, then he said this to me. This was not by mistake as he went on for a while on this discussion, but i may be misinformed, he may be boosting, all i can do is repeat what i heard from his mouth.
The second reason was provided by an insider on pakdef (Pshamim,Munir i cant recall) a while ago when somebody questioned why not PAF would go for CAC produced thunders. 
I gather most of my information through reading....not through human "sources".


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## Donatello

air marshal said:


>



That climb at 1:40+ was awesome!

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## abaseen99

JF-17 Thunder: Dubai Air Show / Geo News (2011) - YouTube


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## Luftwaffe

Qatar for JFTs surprising & strange (Block II?)..

_The Qatar Emiri Air Force as of January 2011 were evaluating Typhoon together with the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, the Boeing F-15 and the Dassault Rafale to replace its current inventory of Dassault Mirage 2000-5s. The total order for 2436 aircraft will be decided on by the end of 2012._


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## MastanKhan

agentny17 said:


> Good to hear. Such a great step by Pakistan in my opinion. I see a lot of Pakistani members very critical to Pakistani government, but seriously to be able to achieve great things military wise that no other muslim country, even countries with higher GDP's and better economies didn't even come close to achieving. We are proud of you guys.



Hi,

How are you doing? Welcome to the board----pakistan and pakistanis have a different perception of weapons and weapons systems than most other middle eastern muslim nations or other muslim nation as well. The reasoning behind is the sanctions that have been imposed upon us and the geographic location to an opponent 5 plus times than our size---.

Our ability to assimilate ourselves with these technologies falls back on one thing and only on one thing and that is the language ENGLISH------. Whereas the arab and other muslim nations have struggled as to what to teach and what language their students need in their college, universities, bachelor, masters and Phd programs----pakistan stuck with english first and foremost.

It gave us a superior advantage to any other non english speaking nation when it came to weapons procurement and training either in britain or in the usa---. As we didnot have the language gap amongst us and our benefactors in britain and the u s, we started learning about these systems at a much higher pace during training than any other foreign non english speaking national----. That edge that we got from the 50's, 60, 70's, 80's just by knowing english, took us farther ahead than our other colleagues.

As I mentioned, other than english---the second reason was our neighbour india and the sanctions imposed upon us. We were fortunate that we had so much exposure to the western weapons systems that we could partner up with the chinese and utilize our experience of western technology and mate it to the chinese----chinese were receptive and extremely anxious of our input. Even though they were progressing, but after the israelis pulled away from the levi project, chinese needed another mature partner---and pakistanis needed a benefactor. 

As for the arab nations, they stuck with the americans, the british, the russians and the french and did not feel the need to invest in such a project---as their needs were being met and they did not have an enemy the size of india to face with---. Turks on the other hand progressed in departments that they wanted to and as being the larget muslim nato ally---they did not have any issues with what they wanted---.

Bottomline---our projects are successful due to our desperation of not getting the much needed weapons system in time. If the u s had not sanctioned us in the 90's----there would have been no JF17---so thank you uncle---this one is for the GIPPER.

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## agentny17

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> How are you doing? Welcome to the board----pakistan and pakistanis have a different perception of weapons and weapons systems than most other middle eastern muslim nations or other muslim nation as well. The reasoning behind is the sanctions that have been imposed upon us and the geographic location to an opponent 5 plus times than our size---.
> 
> Our ability to assimilate ourselves with these technologies falls back on one thing and only on one thing and that is the language ENGLISH------. Whereas the arab and other muslim nations have struggled as to what to teach and what language their students need in their college, universities, bachelor, masters and Phd programs----pakistan stuck with english first and foremost.
> 
> It gave us a superior advantage to any other non english speaking nation when it came to weapons procurement and training either in britain or in the usa---. As we didnot have the language gap amongst us and our benefactors in britain and the u s, we started learning about these systems at a much higher pace during training than any other foreign non english speaking national----. That edge that we got from the 50's, 60, 70's, 80's just by knowing english, took us farther ahead than our other colleagues.
> 
> As I mentioned, other than english---the second reason was our neighbour india and the sanctions imposed upon us. We were fortunate that we had so much exposure to the western weapons systems that we could partner up with the chinese and utilize our experience of western technology and mate it to the chinese----chinese were receptive and extremely anxious of our input. Even though they were progressing, but after the israelis pulled away from the levi project, chinese needed another mature partner---and pakistanis needed a benefactor.
> 
> As for the arab nations, they stuck with the americans, the british, the russians and the french and did not feel the need to invest in such a project---as their needs were being met and they did not have an enemy the size of india to face with---. Turks on the other hand progressed in departments that they wanted to and as being the larget muslim nato ally---they did not have any issues with what they wanted---.
> 
> Bottomline---our projects are successful due to our desperation of not getting the much needed weapons system in time. If the u s had not sanctioned us in the 90's----there would have been no JF17---so thank you uncle---this one is for the GIPPER.


Very informative post.. Thanks bro.


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## Qasibr

@MastanKhan That is a very subjective and debatable opinion. Turkey for one, has never been colonized and proudly holds on to it's own language, most Turks don't even speak English, and they're further ahead of us in many areas. A large number of other countries like Germany, France, Sweden, China and Russia, have very advanced defence/aeronautics industries, and do not speak English. Brazil has a fairly advanced AAM missile program and their colonizer-imposed language is Spanish.

On the other hand, a large number of English-speaking countries are not very advanced. I personally think this has alot to do with initiative and the ambitions of the country. For example, Australia, which is alot bigger than us and has alot more resources, does not seem as involved or interested, arguably Pakistan is further ahead of them in a number of areas. Their defence industry actually seems to be shrinking due to buying off-the-shelf aircraft like the F/A-18 and F-35(I know that they have some small projects and areas they focus on, like naval vessels, but even that seems to have decreased after they de-commissioned their last aircraft carrier). 

I think it's people like Air Marshall Nur Khan(and to a degree, his successor Air Marshall Asghar Khan) who instilled this desire for perfection, trying to do our very best no matter how desperate the odds or what sanctions we must work under. Nur Khan, for example, was unsure whether our transport aircraft rigged to release bombs would be feasible in the Kashmir valley, flying amidst some of the world's tallest mountains, so before ordering others to risk lives, he himself flew on the first sortie of these aircraft in the 1965 Pak-India war, ordering others to do this only when he himself made sure it could be done. The head of the Israeli Airforce, Ezra Weizman wrote in his auto-biography "On Eagle's Wings", that Nur Khan was a formidable fellow, and that he was glad Khan wasn't an Egyptian. Weizman's pilots did face Nur Khan's PAF, and on those occasions PAF pilots completely out-classed their adversary - Israel treated this as a very serious threat and tried to take measures to neutralize this. These people lead by example and tirelessly did their very best in any situation, and I think this left a deep mark on the PAF psyche that's visible to this very day. Very early on, we switched from a somewhat more bureaucratic British-oriented training and tactical "style" Pakistan and India inherited from RAF, to one modelled closer to the USAF. I remember reading news clippings of interviews of PAF officials from the 60's, and they were really proud of their remarkably high gunnery-accuracy statistics, stating that being this accurate and perfectionistic enabled us to deliver the same lethal punch that it took other airforces larger numbers of aircraft to achieve.

There are a number of other institutions in Pakistan that have this type of perfectionism(the Motorway police is a well-known example, known for arresting people who offer bribes), and we have alot of other institutions that are crumbling, despite our English colonization heritage.

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## Riz

Deal final hogae bhai................

---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------


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## Mani2020

nabil_05 said:


> blk 2 for now will have rd-93, ws-13 needs more time to fit in JFT but i believe it eventually will be be fitted.



Then what will be the benefit of fitting WS-13 if its going to arrive on the scene too late. 50 thunders are stated to be from block-1 configuration after then block-2 will start to roll out , suppose the first 2 squadrons of block-2 house RD-93 engine...it then makes to the total thunder with rd-93 engine to be somewhat in the range of 85 aircrafts ....~As 25% cost of total aircraft belongs to the engine...means not only throwing 25% the cost incurred on rd-93 but also the expenses incurred on buying ws-13 to swap the engines from these 85 planes ...that makes it too expensive deal that too for a cash strapped country....

And suppose even if they don't replace the rd-93 engine from initial 85 aircrafts and go with ws-13 from the 86th aircraft that means two different engines for same aircraft adding to cost of maintainance and headache means deviating from the original goal that was....to be cheap,effective and easy to maintain ....also what about the rest of RD-93 that were ordered from Russia through China?

The only thing we can do with these RD-93 is to house them on exporting aircrafts but that only for the new ones that came from russia and still haven't found a place in any thunder...what about the rest 85 engines that will be used on initial thunders...will any country agree to buy used ones ....knowing the reduction in their life-time and overhaul time...even if they come at cheap price


The solution can be modify the current RD-93 engines to increase their thrust ....Recently Pakistan-Russia relations are taking a good turn so why not utilize this change in tide to your benefit .....and even if Russia doesn't allow so use Chinese influence or go to Ukraine for help


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## Qasibr

@Mani2020

Fleet-capability seems to be a very high priority for the PAF rightnow, they're focusing on building their JF17 numbers up. You should read AFM's ~20 page suplement on the JF17, PAF officers talked about the WS-13A engine being ready within five years(one officer said it could even be within 2), and they also talked about not letting anything, lack of avionics from an European vendor or *anything*, slow the project down, saying these capabilities could be added later on.

While China has made huge strides in every area pretty-much, turbofans is still one area that many say is a little "rough". China says they don't have problems manufacturing turbofans anymore, but building turbofans *in numbers* while maintaining a level of quality is proving difficult. I don't think we should induct the WS-13A if it hasn't matured and isn't ready yet, as it can cause huge problems on a single-engine jet.

Western engines tend to have much longer lives, I'm not sure if JF17's airframe life comes close to F-16's 8000 flight-hours, but nevertheless these engines may need to be replaced sometime during the aircraft's service-life. The RD-93's reported MBTO(Mean Time Between Overall) is 600 hours, unless I'm mistaken.

I do believe the RD-93 engine could be a huge problem especially when this aircraft participates in international tenders where Russian aircraft are also competing - the Russians would be reluctant to compete with the JF17 because in some areas it offers higher capability at a lesser price(like MiG-Sukhoi holding's Mikhail Pogosyan stated), and they could prevent sales by not selling the powerplant. For now though, for our own JF17 squadrons, I do think the PAF is right to focus on building fleet-sizes as fast as possible.

With the west(USA/NATO) already crossing into our airspace, and incidents like the F/A-18s our air-defence was focused on when the US conducted the OBL-raid, a decent BVR-capable deterrent isn't a bad thing to have in sizable numbers. PAF's threat-assessment also takes into consideration India's SU-30s which are increasing in numbers(currently a little under 200 apparently). While at first, India seemed to be delaying the MMRCA deal, in some part, to prevent PAF access to avionics from vendors who lost(like the French which bowed out under Indian pressure), it was reported that India may not delay it's MMRCA deal, in light of information that PAF would be getting JF-17s faster than previously reported due to Chinese involvement in the 2nd batch. 

PAF's apparent decision to not let anything hold back it's on-going JF-17 induction, is understandable.


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## houshanghai

Russian RD93 is the first option of JFT now and it is a very mature jet engine in the world.but chinese WS13 are also a must .bcz if Pakistan and Chinese have't a own engine for JFT project.then Pakstan and China will lack the bargaining chips with Russia at the bargaining table. In other words, you must consider not only the needs of today but also the needs of n beyond(ex,if Russian put an embargo of RD93 in war....)So there are a second or third good engine opion of JFT project will be very important. No doubt about it.WS13 become more and more mature.actually ,AVIC also made much of WS13 project now.

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## regular

houshanghai said:


> Russian RD93 is the first option of JFT now and it is a very mature jet engine in the world.but chinese WS13 are also a must .bcz if Pakistan and Chinese have't a own engine for JFT project.then Pakstan and China will lack the bargaining chips with Russia at the bargaining table. In other words, you must consider not only the needs of today but also the needs of n beyond(ex,if Russian put an embargo of RD93 in war....)So there are a second or third good engine opion of JFT project will be very important. No doubt about it.WS13 become more and more mature.actually ,AVIC also made much of WS13 project now.


Yes! Excellent view...We must have WS13 be ready as soon as possible to be on safe side. In my opinion its best for us to have our own WS13 be utilized within our future aircrafts . Obviously we are going to see a war within a year or two most probably....

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## MastanKhan

Qasibr said:


> @MastanKhan That is a very subjective and debatable opinion. Turkey for one, has never been colonized and proudly holds on to it's own language, most Turks don't even speak English, and they're further ahead of us in many areas. A large number of other countries like Germany, France, Sweden, China and Russia, have very advanced defence/aeronautics industries, and do not speak English. Brazil has a fairly advanced AAM missile program and their colonizer-imposed language is Spanish.
> 
> Sir,
> 
> You may make it subjective, objective or whatever----I am a first hand witness to this language issue. Hill AFB where the pak pilots went for the very first time in th e80's---I was going to school right next door---amongst the trainees, there were pilots from all nations----. the only thing kept pak pilots ahead of the class was the language ENGLISH----where everyone else struggled for a minimum of a 6 months to a year to learn the language----pak pilots were off and runnng---thus giving them a 6 mo to a year advantage of all foreigners---basically ending up on the same level as of the american flyers.
> 
> I also know first hand about the 1st batch of pilots that went to the u s to get the F86 sabre---one of them Wng Cmndr Jan Mahood was a father of one of my very good friend----the language spoken in our air force and millitary acdemies was english and only english---. Our air force and pilots did not have to worry about the time lapse.
> 
> When going to school here in the u s in the early 80's---I saw first hand hundreds of students---specially iranians and middle easterns strugglig extremely hard due to language barriers---where as the pakistani students were flying through---.
> 
> Turkey did not have a resource problem like pakistan and neither does it have an enemy 5 times its size sitting next door and when has turkey fought any major wars with any other nation.
> 
> Did you know that the last time our pilots went for training on the BLK 52, just recently---their skill levels and learning capabilities were not at par at the expected levels---they struggled---they had poor reviews----some of the american trainers of the 80's batch were disappoined with what they saw---the problem arose from the language barrier---lack of fluency in english.
> 
> Instead of taking it personal and making it a matter of ego---people need to understand and take learning and speaking of a foreign language as a weapons system----. If you consider a language as a FORCE MULTIPLIER to compliment your millitary and economy, you have narrowed the gap of disparity---that is all we have done over the years.
> 
> All the excellence that you talk of paf---had only one major resource---the lack of language barrier---you talked to them fluently in their lnguage---you conversed with them as they did with each other---so you understood the systems in the similiar manner as they---so you ended up operating the system just like they did----ain't life wonderful.

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## BATMAN

Smoke is gone! this may perhaps be surprising for Russinas as well!

though idea of painting, full tiger was a fail from first look.

Image below; may have been served the purpose much better.

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## abaseen99

JF-17 Thunder Fighter in Dubai Air Show 2011 - SINA English


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## Donatello

MastanKhan said:


> Sir,
> 
> You may make it subjective, objective or whatever----I am a first hand witness to this language issue. Hill AFB where the pak pilots went for the very first time in th e80's---I was going to school right next door---amongst the trainees, there were pilots from all nations----. the only thing kept pak pilots ahead of the class was the language ENGLISH----where everyone else struggled for a minimum of a 6 months to a year to learn the language----pak pilots were off and runnng---thus giving them a 6 mo to a year advantage of all foreigners---basically ending up on the same level as of the american flyers.
> 
> I also know first hand about the 1st batch of pilots that went to the u s to get the F86 sabre---one of them Wng Cmndr Jan Mahood was a father of one of my very good friend----the language spoken in our air force and millitary acdemies was english and only english---. Our air force and pilots did not have to worry about the time lapse.
> 
> When going to school here in the u s in the early 80's---I saw first hand hundreds of students---specially iranians and middle easterns strugglig extremely hard due to language barriers---where as the pakistani students were flying through---.
> 
> Turkey did not have a resource problem like pakistan and neither does it have an enemy 5 times its size sitting next door and when has turkey fought any major wars with any other nation.
> 
> Did you know that the last time our pilots went for training on the BLK 52, just recently---their skill levels and learning capabilities were not at par at the expected levels---they struggled---they had poor reviews----some of the american trainers of the 80's batch were disappoined with what they saw---the problem arose from the language barrier---lack of fluency in english.
> 
> Instead of taking it personal and making it a matter of ego---people need to understand and take learning and speaking of a foreign language as a weapons system----. If you consider a language as a FORCE MULTIPLIER to compliment your millitary and economy, you have narrowed the gap of disparity---that is all we have done over the years.
> 
> All the excellence that you talk of paf---had only one major resource---the lack of language barrier---you talked to them fluently in their lnguage---you conversed with them as they did with each other---so you understood the systems in the similiar manner as they---so you ended up operating the system just like they did----ain't life wonderful.



Very good Mastan jee,

I myself have seen this language barrier....it's not just people from middle-east, even our brothers from China, as they are always taught everything in their local language...foreign languages are not a big part of their education.

I can for example speak well in English, Urdu and Punjabi, and when you told this to Americans there, they would be astonished that i was tri-lingual when most of them weren't even bi-lingual. 

If you go on the website of the FBI (USA) you see they are in high demand for Urdu, Arabic, Pashto speakers...for obvious reasons.

So yes, your language analysis is spot on.

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## Mani2020

Qasibr said:


> @Mani2020
> 
> Fleet-capability seems to be a very high priority for the PAF rightnow, they're focusing on building their JF17 numbers up. You should read AFM's ~20 page suplement on the JF17, PAF officers talked about the WS-13A engine being ready within five years(one officer said it could even be within 2), and they also talked about not letting anything, lack of avionics from an European vendor or *anything*, slow the project down, saying these capabilities could be added later on.
> 
> While China has made huge strides in every area pretty-much, turbofans is still one area that many say is a little "rough". China says they don't have problems manufacturing turbofans anymore, but building turbofans *in numbers* while maintaining a level of quality is proving difficult. I don't think we should induct the WS-13A if it hasn't matured and isn't ready yet, as it can cause huge problems on a single-engine jet.
> 
> Western engines tend to have much longer lives, I'm not sure if JF17's airframe life comes close to F-16's 8000 flight-hours, but nevertheless these engines may need to be replaced sometime during the aircraft's service-life. The RD-93's reported MBTO(Mean Time Between Overall) is 600 hours, unless I'm mistaken.
> 
> I do believe the RD-93 engine could be a huge problem especially when this aircraft participates in international tenders where Russian aircraft are also competing - the Russians would be reluctant to compete with the JF17 because in some areas it offers higher capability at a lesser price(like MiG-Sukhoi holding's Mikhail Pogosyan stated), and they could prevent sales by not selling the powerplant. For now though, for our own JF17 squadrons, I do think the PAF is right to focus on building fleet-sizes as fast as possible.
> 
> With the west(USA/NATO) already crossing into our airspace, and incidents like the F/A-18s our air-defence was focused on when the US conducted the OBL-raid, a decent BVR-capable deterrent isn't a bad thing to have in sizable numbers. PAF's threat-assessment also takes into consideration India's SU-30s which are increasing in numbers(currently a little under 200 apparently). While at first, India seemed to be delaying the MMRCA deal, in some part, to prevent PAF access to avionics from vendors who lost(like the French which bowed out under Indian pressure), it was reported that India may not delay it's MMRCA deal, in light of information that PAF would be getting JF-17s faster than previously reported due to Chinese involvement in the 2nd batch.
> 
> PAF's apparent decision to not let anything hold back it's on-going JF-17 induction, is understandable.



Sorry to say..... but i didn't find anything in your post relevant to what i talked about in my post that you ended up quoting later... No offence but all i read from your post was a bits and patches of history and words that are revolving around everyone starting from Russia to NATO ...... Even i didnt get it whether you are supporting what i said or are going against it....

All i read was "PAF not holding back" ....if you would have read my post i was replying to nabil's post in which he said that WS-13 will find its place later on and not immediately on block-2s ....and i was just going with the dis-advantages of switching to a newer engine and what could PAF possibly do to cope it up.....i never ever for a second said in my post that PAF should have held it up and waited for the ws-13 or they shouldnt have used rd-93 on the first place.... my post was simple 

I wonder from where this NATO.US,india and Su-30s came up from ....looks like a whole jf-17 history is summed up in one post of yours

Again no offence

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## Dil Pakistan

BATMAN said:


> Smoke is gone! this may perhaps be surprising for Russinas as well!
> 
> though idea of painting, full tiger was a fail from first look.
> 
> Image below; may have been served the purpose much better.


 

I like the BLACK PANTHER (it is not a tiger) on the tail. It looks fabulous and perfect for JF-17


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## Irfan Baloch

regular said:


> Obviously we are going to see a war within a year or two most probably....


who told you that?
why are you making such statement?


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## ChineseTiger1986

houshanghai said:


> Russian RD93 is the first option of JFT now and it is a very mature jet engine in the world.but chinese WS13 are also a must .bcz if Pakistan and Chinese have't a own engine for JFT project.then Pakstan and China will lack the bargaining chips with Russia at the bargaining table. In other words, you must consider not only the needs of today but also the needs of n beyond(ex,if Russian put an embargo of RD93 in war....)So there are a second or third good engine opion of JFT project will be very important. No doubt about it.WS13 become more and more mature.actually ,AVIC also made much of WS13 project now.



We will see JF-17 with WS-13 by the next year, perhaps it is a Block II.


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## BATMAN

Looking at the RD-93 order volume, I suspect PAF will stick to RD-93 while PLAF versions will be equipped with WS-13.


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## Qasibr

@Mani2020 If you read carefully, the point I'm trying to make was that waiting for the WS-13 does not seem to make sense, for many reasons that exist due to Pakistan's current situation(which I tried to elaborate upon), PAF seems to be focusing on building it's JF-17 fleet-size as rapidly as possible. 

You were talking about sticking with RD-93 and improving it, and another point in this, is that this engine might start to become a bone of contention with Russia. Especially if JF-17 starts competing in international tenders in Russia's traditional markets, where Russia's own aircraft are competing as well. Already there's noise coming out from senior Russian officials to that effect, like Mikhail Pogosyan saying they should block RD-93 sales because it'd be hard for their MiG-29 to compete with this bird.


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## regular

Irfan Baloch said:


> who told you that?
> why are you making such statement?


cuz smart pplz are alwayz ready for the worst.....


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## fjavaid

BATMAN said:


> Smoke is gone! this may perhaps be surprising for Russinas as well!
> 
> though idea of painting, full tiger was a fail from first look.
> 
> Image below; may have been served the purpose much better.



Though its a very nice pic..but if PAF has used it then same critics wud have been suing PAF for steeling "Thunder Cats"......


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## abaseen99

æ»è®¾è®¡å¸ç¨è±è¯­è®²è§£æ­é¾ææºæ§è½|2011å¹´è¿ªæå½éèªç©ºå±|è¿ªæèªå±|æ­é¾_æ°æµªè§é¢


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## subanday

The UAE Chief of Staff looks a lot fitter than ours....



Last Hope said:


> _
> Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, General Khalid Shameem Wynne called on Lieutenant General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of Staff UAE armed forces today. (15-11-2011) - Photo ISPR_
> 
> 
> *Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, General Khalid Shameem Wynne, who is on an official visit to Dubai today visited the Pakistan Pavilion at Dubai Air Show where equipment made at Pakistan aeronautical complex and JF-17 was show cased. Chairman witnessed the JF - 17 aerial display and appreciated the demonstrated skills of participants. Earlier Chairman met Lieutenant General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of Staff UAE armed forces and exchanged views on matters of bilateral interest.*


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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Zarvan

The Missiles which are shown along with JF-17 in this Air Show are all of them being used by Block 1 or some of them will be used in Block 2 but are not for Block 1?


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## abaseen99

Induction of JF-17 Thunder into PAF termed great achievement: ACM Rao Qamar Suleman - YouTube

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## Manticore

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------

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## Manticore

ÐÑÑÑÐµÐ²Ð° ÐÐ°ÑÐ¸Ð½Ð° - ÐÑÐ±Ð°Ð¸ Ð­Ð¹Ñ Ð¨Ð¾Ñ-2011

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## houshanghai

More complete videos of PAF JF-17 Thunder performing at Dubai Air Show 2011 









*15-11-2011 * 

&#x202b; 

*16-11-2011 * 

&#x202b; 


*17/11/2011 * 

&#x202b;

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## Zabaniyah

fjavaid said:


> Though its a very nice pic..but if PAF has used it then same critics wud have been suing PAF for steeling "Thunder Cats"......



BAF has a squadron named "Thundercats".


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## Qasibr

houshanghai said:


> More complete videos of PAF JF-17 Thunder performing at Dubai Air Show 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *15-11-2011 *
> 
> &#8235;
> 
> *16-11-2011 *
> 
> &#8235;
> 
> 
> *17/11/2011 *
> 
> &#8235;



15-11-2011: JF-17's demo is at 42:00

16-11-2011: JF-17's demo is at 37:50

17-11-2011: JF-17's demo is at 39:20

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## houshanghai

JFT Static displays

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## houshanghai

PAF k8 Static displays

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## houshanghai

PAC exhibition
















TAI exhibition











Saudi Arabia AEC

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## abaseen99



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## abaseen99



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## houshanghai

bcz I like the Background music of this video very much!!so I re-edited this wonderful segment of JFT Performing.I hope you would enjoy it too^^







---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------







PAF JFT at dubai airshow 2011



THX JaffaPix 

LINK;
10128 JF-17 Thunder Pakistan AF | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

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## AstanoshKhan

houshanghai said:


> JFT Static displays



The babe must be in love with this plain.


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## Bint E Aadam

*Hmmmm Nice Sharing Thanks For Sharing*


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## PakShah

I really love these Jf-17.

Good job to the person who took the effort to get the photos on the forum.


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## abaseen99



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## Super Falcon

hope JF 17 thunder got what it deserve i want JF 17 has best radar system mounted in its nose more range more power in engines


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## abaseen99



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## unicorn

*5:10*

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