# Bangladesh Air Force



## EagleEyes

Bangladesh Air Force

All discussions on the Bangladesh Air Force, pictures, news, updates, etc.

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## kobiraaz

Ok this photo was taken from another photo displayed in BANGLADESH ARMED FORCES HARDWARE SHOW 2012.

which helo is this??? Model?? Harbin Z9?

Maybe this is Photoshopped, but as it was shown in the show, means we are getting it.







Discuss!

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## bd_4_ever

It is written "Bangladesh Shena Bahini"..means its for the army. Z-9 is going to be procured for the navy..so this should not be Z-9 afaik.


Cheers!!!

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## Avisheik

Yes its the Harbin z9. We are supposed to get 2 or 3 of them for our chinese frigates.

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## Avisheik

bd_4_ever said:


> It is written "Bangladesh Shena Bahini"..means its for the army. Z-9 is going to be procured for the navy..so this should not be Z-9 afaik.
> 
> 
> Cheers!!!



Dont think its for the army. The enblem on the tail is BAF's. Harbin or dauphan is meant for the navy. So i think botched up photoshop here. Anyways need more time to confirm claims


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## kobiraaz

ok bro. Any idea about that Howitzr below the helo?


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## kobiraaz

I couldn't go to the show, just found some photos taken by others. Will share more After friday prayer.


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## Avisheik

kobiraaz said:


> ok bro. Any idea about that Howitzr below the helo?



Nora B-52 155 mm self propelled howitzer








druid said:


> Which aeroplanes do BD AF use?



just check wiki. We use mig29 and F7 as fighters.

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## Lionaides

what is the stats of PLZ-45?????


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## kobiraaz

Bangla Drone  ..

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## killerx

kobiraaz said:


> Bangla Drone  ..



looks more like a toy bro you can buy easily may be its for fun

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## kobiraaz

killerx said:


> looks more like a toy bro you can buy easily may be its for fun



hehe! its written there it is used only in training as anti air firing Target

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## kobiraaz

*BANGLADESH ARMED FORCES HARDWARE SHOW 2012*

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## kobiraaz

Avisheik said:


> Dont think its for the army. The enblem on the tail is BAF's. Harbin or dauphan is meant for the navy. So i think botched up photoshop here. Anyways need more time to confirm claims



its for army! look at this photo! Army aviation is written below Z9. MBT200 and Nora also shown..............

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## Luffy 500

Kobirazz Bhai, where did you get the mig-29 pics from?


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## kobiraaz

Luffy 500 said:


> Kobirazz Bhai, where did you get the mig-29 pics from?



they are from BANGLADESH ARMED FORCES HARDWARE SHOW 2012.

few more

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## kobiraaz



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## kobiraaz



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## Avisheik

The Pics of Mig 29 flypast are AWESOME!!!!! Looks straight out of a hollywood action movie


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## Lionaides

is there any pic of F-7BGI...if anyone have that...please share ...


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## boltu

Can anyone tell me the specific location of the show?? i want to go tomorrow...


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## kobiraaz

Old air port.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

kobiraaz said:


> its for army! look at this photo! Army aviation is written below Z9. MBT200 and Nora also shown..............


 
Why is there an ALKHALID MBT in the poster? shiekh haseena would be pissed...

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## Darth Vader

i was going to ask same thing like isnt that Al Khalid MBT


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## kobiraaz

Thats MBT2000 from China .... Al khalid is Pakistani variation of MBT2000.


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## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

bangladesh uses them as main battle tank 2000 , 
they bought them from china....

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## kobiraaz

> is there any pic of F-7BGI...if anyone have that...please share ...


*no pic of BGI yet! 
BG*


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## kobiraaz

*Bangladesh is going to use FN16 and QW 18 MANPAD*

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## boltu

I think BOF also gonna produce these manpads locally with TOT...


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## aamerjamal

kobiraaz said:


>



strange? they change all our logo but army's logo still have same look n feel?


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## boltu

kobiraaz said:


> Ok this photo was taken from another photo displayed in BANGLADESH ARMED FORCES HARDWARE SHOW 2012.
> 
> which helo is this??? Model?? Harbin Z9?
> 
> Maybe this is Photoshopped, but as it was shown in the show, means we are getting it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss!


This is Eurocopter AS 365 N3 Dauphin medium lift helicopter .Initially 2 of these helicopters are being purchased by BA.

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## boltu

Some shots are really cool






hehe,BAF boys dancing and plugging on a cool song...enjoy


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## boltu

Feel inside and outside of cockpit


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## boltu

Probable future modernization plan of BAF.....some of them are confirmed and some are not

- Bangladesh Air Force WILL NOT procure the JF-17/FC-1 or J-10.
- BAF probably will procure another 16 MiG-29SMT/M2 or 8 MiG-29SMT along with another 16 Su-30MK2s
- 80% of Bangladesh Air Force combat aircraft will be supplied by the four Russian manufacturers.
- At least one squadron of Yak-130 advanced jet trainers and one squadron of Yak-152 primary trainers are being procured for the current FY. Successul flight tests were already conducted by BAF officers in Russia. Yak-152 will replace the aged PT-6 trainers.
- The Bangladesh Air Force will induct F-7BGI BVR-capable multirole fighter aircraft as a gap filler before inducting the 4+ and 4++ generation combat aircraft.
- The Bangladesh Air Force will induct C-130E/H transport aircraft soon to enhance its own airlift capabilities and support the land forces.
-6 Mi-35 attack helicopters and 3 Mi-171sh support helicopters will be inducted shortly.
- Bangabandhu Aeronautical Complex is being constructed with the plan of manufacturing parts for aircraft, fully maintaining all types of aircraft locally, designing and manufacturing light aircraft, radar and communications equipment.
- The Bangladesh Air Force Academy's ultra modern Bangabandhu Complex constructed is starting too.
- The Bangladesh Air Force is currently engaged in over 100 indigenous R&D projects for manufacturing aircraft support systems, UAVs, drones, communications equipment, munitions and upgrades to existing aircraft.
- Forces Goal Vision 2030 will enable the Bangladesh Air Force to be one of the most advance outfits in the region and effectively provide a deterrent against the threats posed by neighbouring countries.
-Radar and medium range air defence systems are also being procured in haste.

Source- bdmilitary forum

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## Nishan_101

When they are getting Chinese AWE&Cs??? I think 7 would be sufficient!


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## boltu

Nishan_101 said:


> When they are getting Chinese AWE&Cs??? I think 7 would be sufficient!


The thing may be Bangladesh is a small country and thats why AWE&Cs are not in the primary list right now,may be in future !!


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## Lionaides

don't want to see any MIG-29 anymore..........SU-30MK2 will be nice........Mi-35 is good but MI-28 would be awesome ...."shigs".....need some specification on F-7BGI....didnt see it yet.....need a pic too....


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## boltu

Lionaides said:


> don't want to see any MIG-29 anymore..........SU-30MK2 will be nice........Mi-35 is good but MI-28 would be awesome ...."shigs".....need some specification on F-7BGI....didnt see it yet.....need a pic too....


No the later versions of MIG 29 like SMT,M2 are quite good and we already have the necessary infrastructure for MIG-29,so why not !!


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## Nishan_101

You can't undermine the need of AWE&Cs as 7 would be sufficient like in war time or in tension seasons only three in air would ensure that no one will voilate their airspace easily.

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## Lionaides

boltu said:


> No the later versions of MIG 29 like SMT,M2 are quite good and we already have the necessary infrastructure for MIG-29,so why not !!


Yeah I know that later version of Mig-29 are good.....but we need a dedicated long range AC to protect our maritime border.....SU-30MK2 suits better for this role......

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## boltu

Lionaides said:


> Yeah I know that later version of Mig-29 are good.....but we need a dedicated long range AC to protect our maritime border.....SU-30MK2 suits better for this role......


What i know is along with new MIG-29s there will be also a new squadron of SU-30s,,,now you can be happy or hold on lets wait for some solid confirmation .


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## Luffy 500

boltu said:


> No the later versions of MIG 29 like SMT,M2 are quite good and we already have the necessary infrastructure for MIG-29,so why not !!



Procurement of Migs will depend on which party is in power. Chinese won't sell J-10 or JF-17 to a 
Awami governed Bangladesh while if BNP comes next they will scrap all these deals with russia.
I personally don't want to see Migs in BAF fleet. Better option is to offer tenders by inviting different companies and selecting based on merit. j10 and Thypoon are my favorite though.


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## Avisheik

boltu said:


> Probable future modernization plan of BAF.....some of them are confirmed and some are not
> 
> - Bangladesh Air Force WILL NOT procure the JF-17/FC-1 or J-10.
> - BAF probably will procure another 16 MiG-29SMT/M2 or 8 MiG-29SMT along with another 16 Su-30MK2s
> - 80% of Bangladesh Air Force combat aircraft will be supplied by the four Russian manufacturers.
> - At least one squadron of Yak-130 advanced jet trainers and one squadron of Yak-152 primary trainers are being procured for the current FY. Successul flight tests were already conducted by BAF officers in Russia. Yak-152 will replace the aged PT-6 trainers.
> - The Bangladesh Air Force will induct F-7BGI BVR-capable multirole fighter aircraft as a gap filler before inducting the 4+ and 4++ generation combat aircraft.
> - The Bangladesh Air Force will induct C-130E/H transport aircraft soon to enhance its own airlift capabilities and support the land forces.
> -6 Mi-35 attack helicopters and 3 Mi-171sh support helicopters will be inducted shortly.
> - Bangabandhu Aeronautical Complex is being constructed with the plan of manufacturing parts for aircraft, fully maintaining all types of aircraft locally, designing and manufacturing light aircraft, radar and communications equipment.
> - The Bangladesh Air Force Academy's ultra modern Bangabandhu Complex constructed is starting too.
> - The Bangladesh Air Force is currently engaged in over 100 indigenous R&D projects for manufacturing aircraft support systems, UAVs, drones, communications equipment, munitions and upgrades to existing aircraft.
> - Forces Goal Vision 2030 will enable the Bangladesh Air Force to be one of the most advance outfits in the region and effectively provide a deterrent against the threats posed by neighbouring countries.
> -Radar and medium range air defence systems are also being procured in haste.
> 
> Source- bdmilitary forum


 
These aims of the BAF is really great to hear. However i stronly protest the purchase of migs or sukhois. It will be better if we go for single engined aircraft like the gripen. Any news in bd mil about the gripen?

The words "at least" suggest that the air force might buy another squadron of yak 130 in the future 

Good to see the BAF is finally inducting some attack helicopters 

Anyway what is the "medium range air defence system" we are inducting?


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## Lionaides

boltu said:


> What i know is along with new MIG-29s there will be also a new squadron of SU-30s,,,now you can be happy or hold on lets wait for some solid confirmation .


ah if this comes true I will buy you sweets.......



Luffy 500 said:


> Procurement of Migs will depend on which party is in power. Chinese won't sell J-10 or JF-17 to a
> Awami governed Bangladesh while if BNP comes next they will scrap all these deals with russia.
> I personally don't want to see Migs in BAF fleet. Better option is to offer tenders by inviting different companies and selecting based on merit. j10 and Typhoon are my favorite though.


Typhoon would be a day dream..........don't want to see any Migs or JF-17.......but J-10 and SU-30 mixer would be a great package......
but my personal favorite is JAS-39giripanN/G and SU-30 package.......

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## kobiraaz



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## Lionaides

kobiraaz said:


>


nice pic bro......

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## kobiraaz

boltu any specific reason for not choosing J-10?


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## Avisheik

kobiraaz said:


> boltu any specific reason for not choosing J-10?



I think most probably cause J10 is a new platform. Which hasnt been tested by time


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## Lionaides

kobiraaz said:


> boltu any specific reason for not choosing J-10?


 
J-10 is quite a new platform......it has not proven yet.......BAF don't want to take any risk ......as we all know we don't have much money


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## boltu

Luffy 500 said:


> Procurement of Migs will depend on which party is in power. Chinese won't sell J-10 or JF-17 to a
> Awami governed Bangladesh while if BNP comes next they will scrap all these deals with russia.
> I personally don't want to see Migs in BAF fleet. Better option is to offer tenders by inviting different companies and selecting based on merit. j10 and Thypoon are my favorite though.


 I would like to see BAF procuring at least 8 Migs to make a full functional squadron,maintaining half of a squadron doesn't make sense(Khajna theke bajna beshi) !!
If BNP scraps the deal then there'll be some serious protests from inside BAF.It'd be great if BNP makes new deals with China without scrapping the Russian ones.Then we'll have a Chinese-Russian combination,,,Chinese fighters for India,Russian Fighters for Burma

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## Luftwaffe

kobiraaz said:


> boltu any specific reason for not choosing J-10?


 
J-10A-B are not available for exports, this is the only reason anyone else saying it is new or not proven has no idea. The first customer would be PLAAF/PLANF, followed by PAF as an export customer. Afterwards you all need to wait.

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## PERSIAN GOD KING

who is the main enemy of bangladesh?
is there anyone who you guys see as an imminent threat?

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## Avisheik

Luftwaffe said:


> J-10A-B are not available for exports, this is the only reason anyone else saying it is new or not proven has no idea. The first customer would be PLAAF/PLANF, followed by PAF as an export customer. Afterwards you all need to wait.


 
We are getting these new 4+ gen fighter planes around 2018, i think that the j 10 will be available for export then.

Anyway, i think bangladesh is trying to cosy up to moscow with these purchases



PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> who is the main enemy of bangladesh?
> is there anyone who you guys see as an imminent threat?


 
We dont have any enemies as of now, but we did have some problems with our neighbour, BD-india border conflict and BD-burma naval standoff. 

We are just trying to build up some detterence

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## Luftwaffe

Avisheik said:


> i think that the j 10 will be available for export then.


 
That is why I said Afterwards you all need to wait.

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## boltu

Avisheik said:


> These aims of the BAF is really great to hear. However i stronly protest the purchase of migs or sukhois. It will be better if we go for single engined aircraft like the gripen. Any news in bd mil about the gripen?
> 
> The words "at least" suggest that the air force might buy another squadron of yak 130 in the future
> 
> Good to see the BAF is finally inducting some attack helicopters
> 
> Anyway what is the "medium range air defence system" we are inducting?


Hasina has always been a fan of Russian birds,nothing can be done with that.
Man i am a die hard fan Gripen NG,i'd love to see this bird with a compact package like Thailand got.But what they say is Sweden may not be a reliable supplier during war times and on top of that it uses American engine which may come with some strings attached in the rear end !!

Yes Yak 130 is a top class trainer which will eventually make top class pilots also.Ans yes there'll be more i guess.
Don't know about the medium range Sam,but personally i think it'll be Russian !!

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## boltu

kobiraaz said:


> boltu any specific reason for not choosing J-10?


Don't know bro,may be we are searching for a more mature platform where we can spend our hard earned money or China may not offered J-10 to us or our PM blindly loves Russian birds,,,loads of reasons,don't know the specific one !!


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## Avisheik

boltu said:


> Hasina has always been a fan of Russian birds,nothing can be done with that.
> Man i am a die hard fan Gripen NG,i'd love to see this bird with a compact package like Thailand got.But what they say is Sweden may not be a reliable supplier during war times and on top of that it uses American engine which may come with some strings attached in the rear end !!
> 
> Yes Yak 130 is a top class trainer which will eventually make top class pilots also.Ans yes there'll be more i guess.
> Don't know about the medium range Sam,but personally i think it'll be Russian !!



Haha i'd take russian birds over US bureaucracy any time. But anyway, if had the technology we could have just manufactured our own spares, provided they swedes give us permission.


As for the yak, i wouldnt be surprised if they make a full fledged fighter plane based on it, that bird can really pack a punch even though its just a trainer.

I think the SAM will be a part of the $850mil deal with russia

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## boltu

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> who is the main enemy of bangladesh?
> is there anyone who you guys see as an imminent threat?


 No imminent threat-no main enemy,but brother unless you are strong enough others will make fun of you.


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## Avisheik

boltu said:


> No imminent threat-no main enemy,but brother unless you are strong enough others will make fun of you.


 
It is not really about playing up ones ego, but it is rather building up ones country/civilisation which cannot be completed without a strong military

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## Lionaides

I would love to see some BUK or Chinese derives of BUK HQ-16/HQ-16A as Bangladeshi medium range sam system...............it is a decent sam system....it can improve our anti aircraft protection quite a lot..........

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## Lighting_Fighter

We're getting YAK-130 right, that mean we are getting Russian birds.


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## Lighting_Fighter

I'm little bit dissatisfied. All the countries getting generation 5 fighter jet and we are getting 4+ and that is no now even, it is on 2018. Dissapointing!


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## Avisheik

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I'm little bit dissatisfied. All the countries getting generation 5 fighter jet and we are getting 4+ and that is no now even, it is on 2018. Dissapointing!



The countries who will be getting 5th gen fighters are developed countries or economic giants. If we compare to countries of our level, we are actually doing quite good

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## Lionaides

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I'm little bit dissatisfied. All the countries getting generation 5 fighter jet and we are getting 4+ and that is no now even, it is on 2018. Dissapointing!


Brother look at those countries who is getting 5th gen AC......they all are economically technologically and of course military giant........we still have a baby economics compared to them......and if you talk about military we are well trained but ill equipped currently..........


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## Lionaides

wiki says we use HQ-9......is it true?? 
HQ-9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Avisheik

Lionaides said:


> wiki says we use HQ-9......is it true??
> HQ-9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



its wiki any tom,dick and harry can edit it.

And no, we dont use hq 9

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## Lionaides

yeah i know....but wondering if this system is in procurement list??? it's a very decent system........lovely weapon


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## Avisheik

Lionaides said:


> yeah i know....but wondering if this system is in procurement list??? it's a very decent system........lovely weapon



as of now i dont think it is in the procurement list, but i think there is a possibility that we might use them in the future


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## Lionaides

Avisheik said:


> as of now i dont think it is in the procurement list, but i think there is a possibility that we might use them in the future


bro can you give me a list of sams we are going to procure ?????????


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## Avisheik

Lionaides said:


> bro can you give me a list of sams we are going to procure ?????????



I am not really sure about the SAMs we are gonna procure. But we are getting LY60D SAM for our army,as seen from the military hardware show.

But most probably we will get medium range SAMs from russia, cos we struck a $850mil arms deal with them. And so far we bought 10 yaks with that money.

We might buy SA-17 Grizzly or Pantsir-S1. But as of now the name of the medium range SAM is not confired


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## notorious_eagle

Lionaides said:


> I would love to see some BUK or Chinese derives of BUK HQ-16/HQ-16A as Bangladeshi medium range sam system...............it is a decent sam system....it can improve our anti aircraft protection quite a lot..........



SAM are good and dandy for slowing down the advancing forces but they don't win wars. Bangladesh needs to procure modern fighter aircrafts and purchase necessary assets such as modern radars and electronic warfare gear to complement its aircraft inventory. A country with a stature of Bangladesh deserves to have a much more advanced and well trained Armed Forces compare to what it is fielding today.

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## kobiraaz

But brother eagle, that will have negative effect on our economic growth! We have no enemy right now, so we have the luxury to spend our money on more vital education and health sector !


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## Avisheik

kobiraaz said:


> But brother eagle, that will have negative effect on our economic growth! We have no enemy right now, so we have the luxury to spend our money on more vital education and health sector !



I dont think he want us to buy the weapons at a fast pace. He was just stating what kind of weapons will win us a war, if we are involved in any


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## Lionaides

notorious_eagle said:


> SAM are good and dandy for slowing down the advancing forces but they don't win wars. Bangladesh needs to procure modern fighter aircrafts and purchase necessary assets such as modern radars and electronic warfare gear to complement its aircraft inventory. A country with a stature of Bangladesh deserves to have a much more advanced and well trained Armed Forces compare to what it is fielding today.


Brother there is a tell "the best defense is the best offense" ......fighters are good for offensive role.....but SAMs are best for ground based defense...we first need to increase our defense.....we need lots of sams to increase our defense......and we are getting us some 4++ generation goodies in our inventory....so don't worry


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## Lionaides

Avisheik said:


> I am not really sure about the SAMs we are gonna procure. But we are getting LY60D SAM for our army,as seen from the military hardware show.
> 
> But most probably we will get medium range SAMs from russia, cos we struck a $850mil arms deal with them. And so far we bought 10 yaks with that money.
> 
> We might buy SA-17 Grizzly or Pantsir-S1. But as of now the name of the medium range SAM is not confired


brother 10 Yak-130 will cost around 200 million with weapon package.......by deducting 200mili we have 650 mili.....and we are supposed to get us some fighters from russia....so I don't think sam perches program doesn't include in this 850 mili deal.......


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## boltu

Lionaides said:


> brother 10 Yak-130 will cost around 200 million with weapon package.......by deducting 200mili we have 650 mili.....and we are supposed to get us some fighters from russia....so I don't think sam perches program doesn't include in this 850 mili deal.......


Bro $850 million is just one side of the story,there will be state loans, may be strategic deals or even discounts we don't know so in to total the actual amount would be much higher !! btw there has been a tendency from our military is that whenever they procure something they don't reveal the actual price rather show a price which is lower than the original price.Otherwise they would have to face the hue and cry of 'Shushil Shomaj' !!

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## M.H.J.

When will we get our F-7BGI??? in June or December?



Just click on the link: 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-46.html#post2789487


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## boltu

M.H.J. said:


> When will we get our F-7BGI??? in June or December?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-46.html#post2789487


Hmm...good question !!


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## ebr77

*Pilot dies as plane crashes in Tangail*
Sun, Apr 8th, 2012 3:53 pm BdST

Tangail, Apr 8 (bdnews24.com) &#8211; A Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) pilot died on Sunday an hour after a training aircraft crashed into a paddy field at Madhupur in Tangail district. 

'Sharif' passed away while undergoing treatment at Combined Military Hospital at Ghatail cantonment in the district, said additional police superintendent of the district MA Masud. 

The aircraft was carrying two BAF officers and the other one squadron leader Mamunur Rashid managed to eject just before it crashed. He is also undergoing treatment. 

The aircraft fell into the paddy field of Mahishmara village at Aushnara half an hour past noon. Officials of the district administration, BAF and police visited the spot. 

When contacted, the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) confirmed the incident. The aircraft took off from Kurmitola airport. 

bdnews24.com/corr/zk/eh/bd/1547h
Pilot dies as plane crashes in Tangail | Bangladesh | bdnews24.com

RIP . Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihe rajiun


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## boltu

Heard that,very sad incident.RIP to the brave soul


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## M.H.J.

It's nice to see BAF 's "MiG-29 Fulcrum" armed with AAMs ;-)
* AAM Missiles : R-27, R-73 & R-77 & others .

























Photo credit: Flying Officer, "Caliph. Sheikh Muhammad Maruf Hasan Jami" .

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## kobiraaz



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## M.H.J.

Beautiful new paint job,,, I like this ...  


















New paint job of BAF 's Mil Mi-17 And Mil Mi-171SH helicopters... 



- MHJ ...

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## Zabaniyah

Lionaides said:


> don't want to see any MIG-29 anymore..........SU-30MK2 will be nice........Mi-35 is good but MI-28 would be awesome ...."shigs".....need some specification on F-7BGI....didnt see it yet.....need a pic too....



MiG-35 is still in development. 

MiG-29 - although old still has potential. 
Russian AESA Radar for Future MiG 29s and Attack Helicopters : Defense news

Apache is technically superior compared to the Mi-28.



M.H.J. said:


> New paint job of BAF 's Mil Mi-17 And Mil Mi-171SH helicopters...
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...



Smurfs are so badass.



Lighting_Fighter said:


> I'm little bit dissatisfied. All the countries getting generation 5 fighter jet and we are getting 4+ and that is no now even, it is on 2018. Dissapointing!



Not all countries are going for 5th generation planes. IMO, they cost a fortune.

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## PlanetSoldier

PERSIAN GOD KING said:


> who is the main enemy of bangladesh?
> is there anyone who you guys see as an imminent threat?



One is old disguised friend from the beginning of Bangladesh and other is the geopolitical location


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## kobiraaz

M.H.J. said:


> Beautiful new paint job,,, I like this ...
> 
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> 
> 
> New paint job of BAF 's Mil Mi-17 And Mil Mi-171SH helicopters...
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...

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## Luftwaffe

BAF will go through a complete modernization program in reference to 2018-2020+.

by 2020+ BAF should be a small modern professional Air Force that should look something like.

*TRAINERS*
Advance: Yak-130 or K-8(B) [16] 
K-8 variant Advantage Cost

Basic: Trukish TAI Hürku&#351; OR MFI-17 Mushshak [32]

*MULTIROLE*
FC-1 Block III [20]
Supposed production in 2017 replacement would be due of the remaining 16-18 F-7MB-BG by 2018-2020

J-10B Block OR SU-35 [20]
Replacement of the remaining Mig-29s Plus Additional

F-7BGI [16]
To be received in 2012-2013 can fly well Till 2025

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## boltu

*Air Force getting multibillion dollar revamp*

Dhaka, Apr 15 (bdnews24.com)  The government has initiated a 'massive programme' to technologically advance the Bangladesh Air Force, a parliamentary watchdog says in a report. 

*The multibillion dollar programme include purchase of fighters, advanced jet trainers, radar and other equipment from Russia, China and other countries. 
*
"*Bangladesh installed short range air defence (SHORAD) system in December last year. It signed agreements last year to buy one squadron (16) of F-7 BGI fighter planes, three MI-171 helicopters and two AD radars*," revealed a report of the parliamentary standing committee on planning ministry. 

"*Bangladesh will also procure one squadron of MRCA (Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) advanced jet trainers and high-powered radar under long-term loan protocol from Russia*," it added. 

Modernisation 

Under the modernisation plan announced by the Awami League-led government, new weapons and reconnaissance have been added to the force, says the report, a copy of which is available with bdnew24.com. 

"*The government has asked us to give a modernisation plan. Accordingly we provided the plan and working on it," said a senior Air Force official who is familiar with the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity. *

"*We never had SHORAD, but now we have installed it. Also, we laid foundation to set up Bangabandhu aeronautical technology centre where we can have test launch and repair our planes*," he said. 

"*We have signed a couple of agreements with Russia and China and expect to get the delivery in phases starting from this year," the official said. "We hope to get a couple of BGI fighter planes from China this year." 
*
Intense study 

Officials say the Air Force purchases highly technical gadgets and for that intense study is necessary. 

"*It takes about two years of study before an order is placed to buy a particular type of plane*," he said. 

"*Over the years we have developed negotiation skills to bargain for Bangladesh-specific products and to not purchase what is available with the manufacturers*," he explained. 

"We have courses at the staff college where we teach and learn about this study and negotiations," the official said. "Often we inquire about the quality of a product from consumers, not from manufacturers." 

"*The purchase contracts include all the technical details, photographs of the products and conditions regarding supply of spare parts and other accessories*," the Air Force official continued. 

Training 

*The watchdog's report said a total of 3,122 Air Force members will get training in the current fiscal year and out of them 120 would be trained overseas. *

*In the Medium Term Budget Framework (MTBF), it was revealed that the Air Force would replace 16 fighter planes and 16 training planes. *

The Air Force earmarked Tk 17.66 billion in spending for fiscal 2011-12, which will jump to Tk 25.49 billion in 2015-16 fiscal year. 

Air Force getting multibillion dollar revamp | Bangladesh | bdnews24.com

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## kobiraaz

Boltu re, i saw this news and became confused. ManabJAmin used a , between MRCA AND TRAINER. But BDNEWS didn't! Is there anything which is called Multi role combat aircraft advanced jet trainer? I don't think so! What do you think?


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## boltu

kobiraaz said:


> Boltu re, i saw this news and became confused. ManabJAmin used a , between MRCA AND TRAINER. But BDNEWS didn't! Is there anything which is called Multi role combat aircraft advanced jet trainer? I don't think so! What do you think?


hehe,Yes bdnews24 forgot to use 'coma' and why not MRCA jet trainer,it has good ground attack capability,can be armed to the teeth like any other modern fighters but its still a trainer though good looking one !!


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## Hulk

Some good pictures.


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## Lighting_Fighter

boltu bhai, apar jebon dhonno hok alhamdulillah. Allah apnar bhalo koruk.

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## ebr77

*Air Force getting multibillion dollar revamp*


Sun, Apr 15th, 2012 7:01 pm BdST

Sheikh Shahariar Zaman 
bdnews24.com Senior Correspondent 


Dhaka, Apr 15 (bdnews24.com) &#8211; The government has initiated a 'massive programme' to technologically advance the Bangladesh Air Force, a parliamentary watchdog says in a report. 

The multibillion dollar programme include purchase of fighters, advanced jet trainers, radar and other equipment from Russia, China and other countries. 

"Bangladesh installed short range air defence (SHORAD) system in December last year. It signed agreements last year to buy one squadron (16) of F-7 BGI fighter planes, three MI-171 helicopters and two AD radars," revealed a report of the parliamentary standing committee on planning ministry. 

"Bangladesh will also procure one squadron of MRCA (Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) advanced jet trainers and high-powered radar under long-term loan protocol from Russia," it added. 

Modernisation 

Under the modernisation plan announced by the Awami League-led government, new weapons and reconnaissance have been added to the force, says the report, a copy of which is available with bdnew24.com. 

"The government has asked us to give a modernisation plan. Accordingly we provided the plan and working on it," said a senior Air Force official who is familiar with the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity. 

"We never had SHORAD, but now we have installed it. Also, we laid foundation to set up Bangabandhu aeronautical technology centre where we can have test launch and repair our planes," he said. 

"We have signed a couple of agreements with Russia and China and expect to get the delivery in phases starting from this year," the official said. "We hope to get a couple of BGI fighter planes from China this year." 

Intense study 

Officials say the Air Force purchases highly technical gadgets and for that intense study is necessary. 

"It takes about two years of study before an order is placed to buy a particular type of plane," he said. 

"Over the years we have developed negotiation skills to bargain for Bangladesh-specific products and to not purchase what is available with the manufacturers," he explained. 

"We have courses at the staff college where we teach and learn about this study and negotiations," the official said. "Often we inquire about the quality of a product from consumers, not from manufacturers." 

"The purchase contracts include all the technical details, photographs of the products and conditions regarding supply of spare parts and other accessories," the Air Force official continued. 

Training 

The watchdog's report said a total of 3,122 Air Force members will get training in the current fiscal year and out of them 120 would be trained overseas. 

In the Medium Term Budget Framework (MTBF), it was revealed that the Air Force would replace 16 fighter planes and 16 training planes. 

The Air Force earmarked Tk 17.66 billion in spending for fiscal 2011-12, which will jump to Tk 25.49 billion in 2015-16 fiscal year. 

bdnews24.com/ssz/sk/bd/1900h
Air Force getting multibillion dollar revamp | Bangladesh | bdnews24.com


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## Z Bhai

Massive programme initiated to give a face-lift to BAF


The government has initiated a 'massive programme' to technologically advance the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), a parliamentary watchdog says in a report.

The multibillion dollar programme includes purchase of fighters, advanced jet trainers, radar and other equipment from Russia, China and other countries, reports bdnews24.com.

"Bangladesh installed the short range air defence (SHORAD) system in December last year. It signed agreements last year to buy one squadron (16) of F-7 BGI fighter planes, three MI-171 helicopters and two AD radars," revealed a report of the parliamentary standing committee on planning ministry.

"Bangladesh will also procure one squadron of MRCA (Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) advanced jet trainers and high-powered radar under long-term loan protocol from Russia," it added.

Under the modernisation plan announced by the Awami League-led government, new weapons and reconnaissance have equipment been added to the force, says the report, a copy of which is available with the news agency.

"The government has asked us to give a modernisation plan. Accordingly, we have provided the plan and are working on it," said a senior Air Force official who is familiar with the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"We never had SHORAD, but now we have installed it. Also, we laid foundation to set up Bangabandhu Aeronautical Technology Centre where we can have test launch and repair our planes," he said.

"We have signed a couple of agreements with Russia and China and expect to get the delivery in phases starting from this year," the official said. "We hope to get a couple of BGI fighter planes from China this year."

Officials say the Air Force purchases highly technical gadgets and for that intense study is necessary.

"It takes about two years of study before an order is placed to buy a particular type of plane," he said.

"Over the years we have developed negotiation skills to bargain for Bangladesh-specific products and not to purchase what is available with the manufacturers," he explained.

"We have courses at the staff college where we teach and learn about this study and negotiations," the official said. "Often we inquire about the quality of a product from consumers, not from manufacturers."


Massive programme initiated to give a face-lift to BAF

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## CaPtAiN_pLaNeT

*Air Chief meets President*
Thu, 19/04/2012 - 3:45pm | by Sharmaluna


Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Shah M Ziur Rahman met President Zillur Rahman at Bangabhaban on Thursday and apprised him of his recent visit to Myanmar.

During the meeting, he apprised the President that he visited Myanmar from April 2 to April 6 when he met three chiefs, including Chief of Defense Forces and senior officials of Myanmar.

He also apprised the President that he would visit the USA during April 21-28 to attend a seminar on Management of Natural Disasters in South Asia to be held at Harvard University.

Secretaries to the President&#8217;s office were present.
News Source: 
UNB


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## kobiraaz

*on their way across Atlantic refueling stop on Ascension Island*












*Sylhet*

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## Lionaides

when will F-7BGI arrive in BD???????


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## Avisheik

> on their way across Atlantic refueling stop on Ascension Island



Where were they heading towards??


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## kobiraaz

Avisheik said:


> Where were they heading towards??



Brazil Most probably!

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## kobiraaz



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## boltu

Avisheik said:


> Where were they heading towards??


Most likely Ivory Coast !!



kobiraaz said:


>

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## nomi007

if you compare your self with Myanmar Air Force
both have almost same plans for future


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## TopCat

nomi007 said:


> if you compare your self with Myanmar Air Force
> both have almost same plans for future



Our dipute with Myanmar is over. So Myanmar is no more a factor for BD airforce anymore.


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## Lighting_Fighter

It is not bangladeshi but by brother country Egypts pilot. I know you all seen this but I just can't ignore to post it here because can our pilot do half-S in 3000ft with F-7BG or F-7BGI. It is obviously help from Allah.


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## boltu

Don't know half S or what but once saw 2 F-7bgs went crazy like turning right-left,up-down.It was a good show and public enjoyed it for free !!Nothing is impossible,Saiful Azam shot down an Israeli Mirage with a hawker hunter.


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## Zabaniyah

boltu said:


> Don't know half S or what but once saw 2 F-7bgs went crazy like turning right-left,up-down.It was a good show and public enjoyed it for free !!Nothing is impossible,Saiful Azam shot down an Israeli Mirage with a hawker hunter.



Saiful Azam's score:
Air Aces Homepage

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## Zabaniyah

Cool video:


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## kobiraaz



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## nomi007

iajdani said:


> Our dipute with Myanmar is over. So Myanmar is no more a factor for BD airforce anymore.


how you can say that?
even both navies are purchasing old Jianghu frigates from china
for you it is better to purchase mirage III (rose-3 updated)from Pakistan at reasonable price nor f-7bgi


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## kobiraaz



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## Lighting_Fighter

Any news of aircraft we are buying?


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## kobiraaz



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## eastwatch

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Any news of aircraft we are buying?



Bangladesh eyeing purchase of 10 Russian Yak-130 aircraft | World | bdnews24.com

Bangladesh eyeing purchase of 10 Russian Yak-130 aircraft 
Wed, Feb 15th, 2012 1:54 pm BdST 


Dhaka, Feb 15 (bdnes24.com) -- Bangladesh is eyeing possible purchase of 10 Russian-made Yak-130 lead-in fighter trainer aircraft, a news report said on Wednesday. 

Russia's official news agency Itar-Tass in a Singapore-datelined report said on Wednesday that talks were at the initial stage. 

"Bangladesh has a big budget, more to it, a state loan might be used," president of Russia's aircraft building corporation Irkut Alexei Fyoforov was quoted as saying by the agency. 

Fyoforov reportedly said the market capacity for Yak-130 aircraft might reach 2,500 planes till the year 2020. 

"We hope to grip from 25 to 30 percent of this market," he was quoted as saying. 

The Yakovlev Yak-130 (NATO reporting name: Mitten) is a subsonic two-seat advanced jet trainer/light attack aircraft or lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) developed by the Yakovlev Design Bureau. 

Development of the plane began in 1991, and the maiden flight was conducted on April 26, 1996, the report said. 

In 2005, it won a Russian government tender for training aircraft, and in 2009 the first planes were put into service in the Russian Air Force. 

As an advanced training aircraft, the Yak-130 is able to replicate the characteristics of several 4+ generation fighters as well as the fifth-generation Sukhoi T-50, it said. 

It can also perform light-attack and reconnaissance duties, carrying a combat load of 3,000 kilogrammes. 

The report could not be independently confirmed. 

bdnews24.com/jr/1346h

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## shree835

As I believe Bangaladesh don have security issueSo BD should concentrate 100% on country devlopment getting more and more weapon is no use for BD.


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## p3avi8tor69

shree835 said:


> As I believe &#8230;Bangaladesh don have security issue&#8230;So BD should concentrate 100% on country devlopment&#8230; getting more and more weapon is no use for BD.



I agree, why spend what little resource they have on fancy Migs when roads in Dhaka turns to mud when it rains, when roads turn to a jungle of mess with never ending road repair/constructions that no one knows what they are for. I was there last year and saw it first hand. Bangadeshis are one of the friendliest folks I've ever met, a lot even offered to pay for my meal, rickshaw fares and just about everyone went out of their way to give me directions cause maps were non existent. BD is a beautiful country with fantastic locals but governed by morons.

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## Lighting_Fighter

p3avi8tor69 said:


> I agree, why spend what little resource they have on fancy Migs when roads in Dhaka turns to mud when it rains, when roads turn to a jungle of mess with never ending road repair/constructions that no one knows what they are for. I was there last year and saw it first hand. Bangadeshis are one of the friendliest folks I've ever met, a lot even offered to pay for my meal, rickshaw fares and just about everyone went out of their way to give me directions cause maps were non existent. BD is a beautiful country with fantastic locals but governed by morons.



Have you ever been to bangladesh?


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## kobiraaz

good question Lighting fighter! :p

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## kobiraaz



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## Lone

...Guys any news on the Training aircraft that landed in west bengal Today???


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## p3avi8tor69

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Have you ever been to bangladesh?



Yes for a few days. Spent it all in Dhaka.


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## Lighting_Fighter

p3avi8tor69 said:


> Yes for a few days. Spent it all in Dhaka.


 
Well it is not smart to judge a country spending there few days only when This country has a heritage of civilize civilization thousands of years.


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## eastwatch

eastwatch said:


> Bangladesh eyeing purchase of 10 Russian Yak-130 aircraft | World | bdnews24.com
> 
> Bangladesh eyeing purchase of 10 Russian Yak-130 aircraft
> Wed, Feb 15th, 2012 1:54 pm BdST



BAF will purchase these 10 units of YAK-130 training aircrafts under a $850 million Russian loan agreement. This purchase will certainly be followed by the purchase of Russian-built 4+ generation Sukhois or Migs. Relationship with Russia has turned a corner. Only yesterday a $191 million treaty was signed with a Russian oil giant to drill for gas in the NE of BD.


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## kobiraaz



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## kobiraaz

Bangladesh Going to Sign $1 B defence deal with Russia. ...

??? ????????? ????? ?????? ????????? | &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; | bdnews24.com

Sheikh Shahariar Zaman bdnews24.com Senior Correspondent Dhaka, Apr 27 (bdnews24.com) &#8212; Following an agreement with Russian oil giant Gazprom, Bangladesh is trying to hammer out an almost billion-dollar arms deal with Moscow. "We expect to strike a deal within a month or two," Bangladesh's ambassador to Russia S M Saiful Haque told bdnews24.com. When asked about the size of the deal, Haque said, "It is close to a billion dollars." An earlier report in a local Bengali daily said that Dhaka would be purchasing $850 million (Tk 71.4 billion, just over 4 percent of the current national budget) worth of arms and ammunition from Moscow. The arms deal is expected to be financed through a Russian credit-line but the details were not readily available. The ambassador refrained from making any comments indicating that a part of the negotiations still revolved around those issues. Saiful Haque had come to Dhaka with a Gazprom delegation to facilitate the energy deal and left Dhaka on Friday with the delegation. "Russia is one of our trusted allies and defence cooperation with them is increasing," Haque said before he left Dhaka. Bangladesh-Russia relationship began to be reinvigorated after the Awami League-led government came to power in 2009 and expanded from defence to nuclear technology to energy exploration. The ambassador said these were only small steps towards a much stronger cooperation that had much potential. A parliamentary standing committee report stated that Bangladesh plans to purchase a squadron (16) of advanced training aircraft that will facilitate flying jet fighters and a high powered radar system under a long- term loan protocol from Russia. Russia, heart of the former Soviet Republic, played a key role in Bangladesh's liberation in 1971, exercised its veto power thrice at the United Nations on Dec 11, 12 and 14 in 1971, which paved the way for Bangladesh's independence. Moscow also helped clear the mines of Chittagong port after liberation and assisted the Bangladesh's energy sector in the early 70's. bdnews24.com/ssz/ta/2110h WARNING: Any unauthorise

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## Lighting_Fighter

just 16. We thought we'll get 16 along side 16 of SU-30 and training aircrafts like YAK? Why they changed the plan? Pressure from india?


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## asad71

BAF should not waste money in buying an aircraft that cannot match IAF Rafale. The Russian S-300 Air Defense System is something that BD should go for. And BAF should wait for BAL to leave so that it can obtain the J-10 from China. That will be a good response to Rafale.


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## jaunty

asad71 said:


> BAF should not waste money in buying an aircraft that cannot match IAF Rafale. The Russian S-300 Air Defense System is something that BD should go for. And BAF should wait for BAL to leave so that it can obtain the J-10 from China. That will be a good response to Rafale.



Don't overestimate yourself, Rafales have nothing to do with you. We just need to stop the water or open all the sluice gates, invest on life-jackets instead


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## kobiraaz

^ Why mods allow these trolls on defence related discussion? Beyond my knowledge!

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## jaunty

kobiraaz said:


> ^ Why mods allow these trolls on defence related discussion? Beyond my knowledge!



Because the mods also allow trolls like these --



asad71 said:


> A good idea, but not before Indian occupation of the NE is ended.


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## M_Saint

kobiraaz said:


> Bangladesh Going to Sign $1 B defence deal with Russia. ...
> 
> ??? ????????? ????? ?????? ????????? | &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; | bdnews24.com
> 
> Sheikh Shahariar Zaman bdnews24.com Senior Correspondent Dhaka, Apr 27 (bdnews24.com)  Following an agreement with Russian oil giant Gazprom, Bangladesh is trying to hammer out an almost billion-dollar arms deal with Moscow. "We expect to strike a deal within a month or two," Bangladesh's ambassador to Russia S M Saiful Haque told bdnews24.com. When asked about the size of the deal, Haque said, "It is close to a billion dollars." An earlier report in a local Bengali daily said that Dhaka would be purchasing $850 million (Tk 71.4 billion, just over 4 percent of the current national budget) worth of arms and ammunition from Moscow. The arms deal is expected to be financed through a Russian credit-line but the details were not readily available. The ambassador refrained from making any comments indicating that a part of the negotiations still revolved around those issues. Saiful Haque had come to Dhaka with a Gazprom delegation to facilitate the energy deal and left Dhaka on Friday with the delegation. "Russia is one of our trusted allies and defence cooperation with them is increasing," Haque said before he left Dhaka. Bangladesh-Russia relationship began to be reinvigorated after the Awami League-led government came to power in 2009 and expanded from defence to nuclear technology to energy exploration. The ambassador said these were only small steps towards a much stronger cooperation that had much potential. A parliamentary standing committee report stated that Bangladesh plans to purchase a squadron (16) of advanced training aircraft that will facilitate flying jet fighters and a high powered radar system under a long- term loan protocol from Russia. Russia, heart of the former Soviet Republic, played a key role in Bangladesh's liberation in 1971, exercised its veto power thrice at the United Nations on Dec 11, 12 and 14 in 1971, which paved the way for Bangladesh's independence. Moscow also helped clear the mines of Chittagong port after liberation and assisted the Bangladesh's energy sector in the early 70's. bdnews24.com/ssz/ta/2110h WARNING: Any unauthorise


Out of $1 B, how much would Awamy dalaler Baschas steal (http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=129711; www.mrt-rrt.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/84/bgd34408.pdf.aspx) is the question that needs to be pondered, IMHO. From MIG to Frigate purchases in previous RAWAMY regime; Hasina herself was the prime defender. And RAWamy's colossal stealing from other Ruskie's project were also well documented 




. 
Moreover, Ruskie being the prime arm supplier of Malaunic country, a patriot would ask where the above arm deal could lead logically? 

Also knowing the bitter history of MIGs purchase and more potent SUs/its industrial know-how in Indias possession, one would ask, Why Bengali Nera was heading Bell Tala again"? Finally, with the materialization of the deal, wouldn't BD's defence be further mortgaged to India?


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## mil-avia

*Decommissioned single-seat MiG-21 MF fighter (7 images) :
























Related link.*

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## Avisheik

Lighting_Fighter said:


> just 16. We thought we'll get 16 along side 16 of SU-30 and training aircrafts like YAK? Why they changed the plan? Pressure from india?



The deal is still in works, those military arms that we have confirmed purchasing is mentioned in this article. The speculative ones like fighter jets, SAMs etc are not mentioned. Anyway this is an "arms deal" not an "air defence deal" which mean that we might use this money to buy equipment for the army of navy.



> The ambassador refrained from making any comments indicating that a part of the negotiations still revolved around those issues




If the report holds true, we will get 16 yaks instead of 10 as previously reported. This means bangladesh has increased its confidence of russian jets, esp yak 130


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## Avisheik

asad71 said:


> BAF should not waste money in buying an aircraft that cannot match IAF Rafale. The Russian S-300 Air Defense System is something that BD should go for. And BAF should wait for BAL to leave so that it can obtain the J-10 from China. That will be a good response to Rafale.


 

Yak 130 is a trainer aircraft not a fighter and we trainers to train our boys to fly. Anyway why do you want to match up to the IAF rafale?? Our defence is not india(neither is burma) centered, if it is we will be digging our own graves. Bangladesh will buy the type of aircrafts according to its needs and doctorine, not engage in an arms race.

The purchase of long range SAM is very important for our military and our security. However we must learn how to crawl before we walk. 

Bangladesh is building up its air defence network first. Then i think we will establish short range air defence system then move on to intermediate range before finally long range system.

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## Lighting_Fighter

Anyone remembers 6 day war in 1973 between arab and israel. arab lost it. why, well allah's wish, because of superior weapon. arabs were flying mig and israel was flyiing mirage i think and guess who won, Israel. So why not buy Rafael or Eurofighter or F-18 in small numbers like minimum 10? What do u say?


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## Avisheik

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Anyone remembers 6 day war in 1973 between arab and israel. arab lost it. why, well allah's wish, because of superior weapon. arabs were flying mig and israel was flyiing mirage i think and guess who won, Israel. So why not buy Rafael or Eurofighter or F-18 in small numbers like minimum 10? What do u say?



Israelis were using the latest mirage of that time, while the arabs used planes made in the fifties. Its like fighting a Su 30 with a F 7. So of course the arabs will lose. It not that the european or american planes are superior to the the russians.

10 Rafael or eurofighter is hardly a detterent force. Furthermore their capability is similar to the russians, but they are too expensive. With that money we can buy 5th gen aircraft.


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## TopCat

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Anyone remembers 6 day war in 1973 between arab and israel. arab lost it. why, well allah's wish, because of superior weapon. arabs were flying mig and israel was flyiing mirage i think and guess who won, Israel. So why not buy Rafael or Eurofighter or F-18 in small numbers like minimum 10? What do u say?



Arab lost 6 day war of 1967. It was mainly due to surprise attack in all front and the war did not prolong due to discord among arab countries.
In 1973 Egypt gone alone without taking anybody with them even they kicked Russian consultant out of the country before attacking Israel. Egypt won the game including all the lost territory of 1967.

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## boltu

Avisheik said:


> If the report holds true, we will get 16 yaks instead of 10 as previously reported. This means bangladesh has increased its confidence of russian jets, esp yak 130


Yes it makes sense because in BAF 1 squadron consists of 16 aircrafts.


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## M_Saint

Avisheik said:


> Yak 130 is a trainer aircraft not a fighter and we trainers to train our boys to fly. Anyway why do you want to match up to the IAF rafale?? Our defence is not india(neither is burma) centered, if it is we will be digging our own graves. Bangladesh will buy the type of aircrafts according to its needs and doctorine, not engage in an arms race.
> 
> The purchase of long range SAM is very important for our military and our security. However we must learn how to crawl before we walk.
> 
> Bangladesh is building up its air defence network first. Then i think we will establish short range air defence system then move on to intermediate range before finally long range system.





Avisheik said:


> Our defence is not india(neither is burma) centered, if it is we will be digging our own graves. Bangladesh will buy the type of aircrafts according to its needs and doctorine, not engage in an arms race..


External threat assessment of BD through any honest measure would indicate that IND is its biggest adversary and perhaps Burma is the next. So, BA's arm purchase without taking Indian, Burmese motives into equation is completely flawed. Infect I see a very dangerous game is offing in the region for Indian's poking/brokering for Malaysian, Vietnamese and BDeshies to buy Ruskie's strategic weapons. By purchasing SU-30MKM, Malaysian had indirectly help for Indian expansionism and Viet and Bdeshis would further enhance it. So, except small weapons, Ruskie's hardware is No, No; a big no, indeed. 
, 
And from tactical and maintenance stand point of views; SU-30, MIGs are nightmarish, extremely costly and 'Bharati aid' centric. *Furthermore, it defeats the main purpose of neutralizing adversary but brings PAK into striking-equation due to SU-30, Mig-29&#8217;s ranges, which would warrant PAK's Nuke capable missiles to line up toward BD*. So, RAWamy Mo-Fos aren't looking at BD's defence while purchasing Ruskie hardware but putting BD's inhabitants at grave risk by joining Indian camp against Pakistanis, IMHO.


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## TopCat

M_Saint said:


> External threat assessment of BD through any honest measure would indicate that IND is its biggest adversary and perhaps Burma is the next. So, BA's arm purchase without taking Indian, Burmese motives into equation is completely flawed. Infect I see a very dangerous game is offing in the region for Indian's poking/brokering for Malaysian, Vietnamese and BDeshies to buy Ruskie's strategic weapons. By purchasing SU-30MKM, Malaysian had indirectly help for Indian expansionism and Viet and Bdeshis would further enhance it.* So, except small weapons, Ruskie's hardware is No, No; a big no, indeed. *
> ,
> And from tactical and maintenance stand point of views; SU-30, MIGs are nightmarish, extremely costly and 'Bharati aid' centric. *Furthermore, it defeats the main purpose of neutralizing adversary but brings PAK into striking-equation due to SU-30, Mig-29&#8217;s ranges, which would warrant PAK's Nuke capable missiles to line up toward BD*. So, RAWamy Mo-Fos aren't looking at BD's defence while purchasing Ruskie hardware but putting BD's inhabitants at grave risk by joining Indian camp against Pakistanis, IMHO.



With all due respect to you, you cant match neither India nor Burmese without Ruskies weaponry unless you can afford highly expensive western suppliers. We are getting whatever we can from China but China does not have the capacity at least not before 2020 with the similar capable hardware.

You are too naive or brain fart when you bring Pak in the BD's SU-30 range.

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## Zabaniyah

M_Saint said:


> External threat assessment of BD through any honest measure would indicate that IND is its biggest adversary and perhaps Burma is the next. So, BA's arm purchase without taking Indian, Burmese motives into equation is completely flawed. Infect I see a very dangerous game is offing in the region for Indian's poking/brokering for Malaysian, Vietnamese and BDeshies to buy Ruskie's strategic weapons. By purchasing SU-30MKM, Malaysian had indirectly help for Indian expansionism and Viet and Bdeshis would further enhance it. So, except small weapons, Ruskie's hardware is No, No; a big no, indeed.



Since when did Burma become Bangladesh's enemy? The refugee issue was not too severe, nor that the sea boundary dispute. I've met many Burmese back in college. They hated their military regime (although things are changing for the better), they hated India, and they absolutely hated China. Thoroughly  

What does the export of Russian SU-30s got to do with India? The SU-30s to Malaysia and Vietnam are sourced from Russia. And do not benefit India much. The Indians cannot simply export their production MKI model as of now. It is true that the Malays were impressed with the MKI when some of their officers visited India. And they chose it over the F-18 Super Hornet for technical reasons (the US is still not offering them the AMRAAM on their current fleet of F-18 Hornets). 

The Vietnamese Su-30s are more in line with the Su-30MKK (PLA variant). Does that mean that the Chinese are licking Indian boots by operating Su-30s? Do not be surprised if you get a harsh response from the Chinese posters here. 



M_Saint said:


> And from tactical and maintenance stand point of views; SU-30, MIGs are nightmarish, extremely costly and 'Bharati aid' centric.



Depends. Cost of maintenance of any particular aircraft is unique to each and every country user. But yes, Russian engines are a bit more problematic, compared to Western ones. Parts delivery from the Russians on a timely basis is also an issue. 

India supplies MiG-29 and Su-30 parts to all operators? Are you insane? 



M_Saint said:


> *Furthermore, it defeats the main purpose of neutralizing adversary but brings PAK into striking-equation due to SU-30, Mig-29&#8217;s ranges, which would warrant PAK's Nuke capable missiles to line up toward BD*.



MiG-29 and any Flanker variant have very different roles. Why would Pakistan want to strike us? 



M_Saint said:


> So, RAWamy Mo-Fos aren't looking at BD's defence while purchasing Ruskie hardware but putting BD's inhabitants at grave risk by joining Indian camp against Pakistanis, IMHO.



IMHO to you. 

Try to research things through a bit more which you clearly have no idea about.

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## asad71

iajdani said:


> Arab lost 6 day war of 1967. It was mainly due to surprise attack in all front and the war did not prolong due to discord among arab countries.
> In 1973 Egypt gone alone without taking anybody with them even they kicked Russian consultant out of the country before attacking Israel. Egypt won the game including all the lost territory of 1967.



1. Hope Mods will not mind a little digression. Our Saiful Azama had shot down 6 Israeli fighters in the '67 War - an achievement never equaled before or since. Grateful Jordan and Iraq had bestowed their highest honors on him. Arab mothers of the time were in competition to name their sons Saif. The remnant of an Israeli aircraft he had shot down is still displayed in Baghdad. Earlier he had shot down one of the Keeler brothers of Indian AF, considered aces in that country. Pakistan decorated Azam with SJ.

2. In the 22 Aces of the World, Saiful Azam is the only Asian and is invited regularly at gatherings of the Aces in USA.

3. Till that point in time the Arabs were unhappy with Pakistan because of Baghdad Pact/CENTO and her alliances with Iran and Turkey. After Azam's feat, the Arabs opened their doors wide for Pakistan. FM Ayub had commented, "What Flt Lieut Azam has achieved singly, our Foreign Office failed to in all these years."

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## Lighting_Fighter

Roybot said:


> Saw this photo on facebook. Very touching




May Allah bless the gentleman!

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## M_Saint

iajdani said:


> With all due respect to you, you cant match neither India nor Burmese without Ruskies weaponry unless you can afford highly expensive western suppliers. We are getting whatever we can from China but China does not have the capacity at least not before 2020 with the similar capable hardware.
> 
> You are too naive or brain fart when you bring Pak in the BD's SU-30 range.


With all due respect, I haven't seen anyone being so devoid of reality like you while making comments in PDF. So, please have your head exam by ASAP! And do you have any idea about the concept of product's life cycle's cost? Ruskie's fighters sometimes overrun Westerner's one by it. Just compare Grippen C with SU-30s to find it out. BTW, SU-30 or MIG-35 isn&#8217;t that cheap compare to Grippen or F-Solas either. So, learn the fact before stroking on keyboard, understand? 

Now, it's big news for me that SINOS don't have the capacity at least before 2020. Dude, have U heard J-10 beating SU families 10 out of 10 times in mock WVR's combat? And that was the early J-10's story, which evolved to J-10B lately. Here is Ruskie's admission about J-10's superiority (Russian aviation journalist says J-10 better than both Mig-29 and Flanker. - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums), so get enlightened. Then there is JF-17, which has been constantly thundering to become more potent. Just visit J-17 thread of PDF before making a fool out of yourself again. Also J-20's prototype has been flown. Compare to all, what new fighter has RUSKIE come up with in last 15 yrs? Even their PAK-FA concept has evolved from early legacy-SUs. So, what are you smoking? 

Finally, it's wasting time to response to your comment about me being naive as the profundity of your strategic-thinking is next to zero, IMO. Just ask Kalu Bhai about shaitan Hindutavya-wala's domineering plan to link it with shoving SUs through our throat.


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## Zabaniyah

M_Saint said:


> With all due respect, I haven't seen anyone being so devoid of reality like you while making comments in PDF. So, please have your head exam by ASAP! And do you have any idea about the concept of product's life cycle's cost? Ruskie's fighters sometimes overrun Westerner's one by it. Just compare Grippen C with SU-30s to find it out. BTW, SU-30 or MIG-35 isn&#8217;t that cheap compare to Grippen or F-Solas either. So, learn the fact before stroking on keyboard, understand?



The Su-30 is more comparable to the F-15. MiG-35 to the F-18 Super Hornet. 



M_Saint said:


> Now, it's big news for me that SINOS don't have the capacity at least before 2020. Dude, have U heard J-10 beating SU families 10 out of 10 times in mock WVR's combat? And that was the early J-10's story, which evolved to J-10B lately. Here is Ruskie's admission about J-10's superiority (Russian aviation journalist says J-10 better than both Mig-29 and Flanker. - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums), so get enlightened.



Where does it say that J-10 is superior to the Su-30? Again, they are completely different class of fighters. 

The J-10B is a nice plane to be honest. An absolute thorough dog-fighter. But I doubt if Bangladesh would be getting access to it for quite some time. And once again, they'd be powered by Russian engines. 



M_Saint said:


> Then there is JF-17, which has been constantly thundering to become more potent. Just visit J-17 thread of PDF before making a fool out of yourself again. Also J-20's prototype has been flown. Compare to all, what new fighter has RUSKIE come up with in last 15 yrs? Even their PAK-FA concept has evolved from early legacy-SUs. So, what are you smoking?



Did you know that Myanmar is also a candidate customer for the FC-1? 

Yes, the PAK-FA does have resemblance to the Flankers. But so does the F-22 to the F-15. Does that mean the Americans are behind in terms of technology compared to the Chinese? 



M_Saint said:


> Finally, it's wasting time to response to your comment about me being naive as the profundity of your strategic-thinking is next to zero, IMO. *Just ask Kalu Bhai about shaitan Hindutavya-wala's domineering plan to link it with shoving SUs through our throat.*



You still didn't answer my question. How does the sale of Russian-made Su-30s benefit India? 

Perhaps it is you need a head exam? Or maybe you've been living abroad for too long? I can see this trend of pseudo-Islamists living abroad making such type of comments. 

It is understandable that there is some sort of foreign conspiracy going on in Bangladesh. But then, it is the Bangladeshis (Awami League and their lackies) who are working with those foreigners to best safeguard their individual interests, and not for the nation.

And frankly, neither did the previously ruling BNP/Jamaat admin made any serious attempts at addressing the issue of national security. 

Notice those Indians "looking for jobs" in Bangladesh came in like droves even during the BNP/Jamaat admin? It wasn't always about jobs  

You don't need expensive, high-end military gear to contain that. 

There are reasons why Jamaat never made any significant difference in the political landscape of Bangladesh, apart from their individual interests of-course. 

The people with the power put their individual interests before that of national. 

And frankly, no one cares what India thinks. It is the people in power in Bangladesh who won't or can't take care of the country's national security interests.

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## M.H.J.

Ruling the skies of Bangladesh and maintaining Peace... 

&#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2480; &#2438;&#2453;&#2494;&#2486; &#2480;&#2494;&#2454;&#2495;&#2476; &#2478;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;...   

Mikoyan MiG-29S Fulcrum of BAF ... 





Colors of the MiG-29. Mikoyan & Gurevich MiG-29 camouflage and painting schemes. European countries, Russia. MiG-29, MiG-29OVT, MiG-29SMT, MiG-35








- MHJ ...

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## Zabaniyah

I saw one MiG flying past me yesterday during twilight. And at low level. The sight was amazing 

By the way, I live close to the airport.


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## M.H.J.

Zabaniya said:


> I saw one MiG flying past me yesterday during twilight. And at low level. The sight was amazing
> 
> By the way, I love close to the airport.



love or live? 



Zabaniya said:


> I saw one MiG flying past me yesterday during twilight. And at low level. The sight was amazing
> 
> By the way, I love close to the airport.





I also live close to the airport...


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## Zabaniyah

Typo


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## idune

As many analyst said at the moment we do not have time to be airborne let alone face enemy aircraft. Before thinking about buying aircraft we have to create that time and space needed so our aircraft can be airborne. And to do that we badly need BM 9K58 Smerch 300mm Multiple Launch Rocket System. Russian credit line could be best used if this systems are in the list.

Smerch 9K58 Multiple Launch Rocket System, Russia - YouTube


Another platform we badly need is MI-28NE helicopters from Russia. This will give us night time, special ops, capabiity against mechanized enemy move and many more options.

Mi-28N Part-1 - YouTube

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## eastwatch

idune said:


> As many analyst said at the moment we do not have time to be airborne let alone face enemy aircraft. Before thinking about buying aircraft we have to create that time and space needed so our aircraft can be airborne. And to do that we badly need BM 9K58 Smerch 300mm Multiple Launch Rocket System. Russian credit line could be best used if this systems are in the list.
> 
> Smerch 9K58 Multiple Launch Rocket System, Russia - YouTube
> 
> 
> Another platform we badly need is MI-28NE helicopters from Russia. This will give us night time, special ops, capabiity against mechanized enemy move and many more options.
> 
> Mi-28N Part-1 - YouTube



Thanks for the informative post. I have opened another new thread called 'Military to Buy 3 Korean Frigates and 8 Russian Mig-29SMT Fulcrums.' The news article says about the purchase of 8 units of Russian Mig-SMTs. The $850 million will certainly buy many more weapons that may include those you have suggested. Let us wait and see what other weapons GoB decides to buy from Russia.


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## Rokto14

and an AN-32 for transport

just wish we could get at least 1 C-130

ok i dont consider these as adhunik


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## Zabaniyah

^We already have 4 C-130s.


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## AnkurPandey

Zabaniya said:


> ^We already have 4 C-130s.



Bangladeshi C130 are not _adhunik_ but decades old. What Rokto14 meant want was these newer ones C-130J Super Hercules (seen in recent indian military exercise Shoor Veer)

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## boltu

AnkurPandey said:


> Bangladeshi C130 are not _adhunik_ but decades old. What Rokto14 meant want was these newer ones C-130J Super Hercules (seen in recent indian military exercise Shoor Veer)


As long as our old C-130s can transport things,we are happy.
This thread is strictly for BAF,so stop posting pics of others.

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## MilSpec

M_Saint said:


> With all due respect, I haven't seen anyone being so devoid of reality like you while making comments in PDF. So, please have your head exam by ASAP! And do you have any idea about the concept of product's life cycle's cost? Ruskie's fighters sometimes overrun Westerner's one by it. Just compare Grippen C with SU-30s to find it out. BTW, SU-30 or MIG-35 isnt that cheap compare to Grippen or F-Solas either. So, learn the fact before stroking on keyboard, understand?
> 
> Now, it's big news for me that SINOS don't have the capacity at least before 2020. Dude, have U heard J-10 beating SU families 10 out of 10 times in mock WVR's combat? And that was the early J-10's story, which evolved to J-10B lately. Here is Ruskie's admission about J-10's superiority (Russian aviation journalist says J-10 better than both Mig-29 and Flanker. - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums), so get enlightened. Then there is JF-17, which has been constantly thundering to become more potent. Just visit J-17 thread of PDF before making a fool out of yourself again. Also J-20's prototype has been flown. Compare to all, what new fighter has RUSKIE come up with in last 15 yrs? Even their PAK-FA concept has evolved from early legacy-SUs. So, what are you smoking?
> 
> Finally, it's wasting time to response to your comment about me being naive as the profundity of your strategic-thinking is next to zero, IMO. Just ask Kalu Bhai about shaitan Hindutavya-wala's domineering plan to link it with shoving SUs through our throat.




Hmm I wonder Why are chinese then producing j11"s which are flanker derivatives instead of just stocking up on j10b's. Lavi derrivative powered by a single (flanker) al31f engine beating Flankers (which includes 27m, 30M,30K,30MKI,35BM) seems far fetched.

BTW you might want to read what the russian journo wrote, his observations are based off an airshow, I wonder what he might have deduced if he saw a thrust vectoring fulcrum in an airshow?

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## Zabaniyah

AnkurPandey said:


> Bangladeshi C130 are not _adhunik_ but decades old. What Rokto14 meant want was these newer ones C-130J Super Hercules (seen in recent indian military exercise Shoor Veer)



Yeah, they are old. In fact, they were a gift from the US after Bangladesh's participation in the Gulf War. But it wasn't completely free though. 

It gets the job done well, and that's good enough.

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## eastwatch

AnkurPandey said:


> Bangladeshi C130 are not _adhunik_ but decades old. What Rokto14 meant want was these newer ones C-130J Super Hercules (seen in recent indian military exercise Shoor Veer)



USA is asking BD to take many of its armaments when it withdraws from Afghanistan in 2014. You can expect then the latest version of C-130 in BAF/BA.


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## Luftwaffe

TUAF has purchased 6-7 C-130s B/E from RSAF under $80M and other news point out to $4.4M per plane [$26.3M for total 6 C-130B/E] and would proceed with upgrading to H Standards. BAF can proceed after US acceptance to upgrade them through Turkey OR Lockheed Martin itself well under $25M infact US has Excess of these C-130Es in stocks with alot alot life left in them. 

I think BAF should procure as much as 4 more C-130Es refurbish-upgrade them to H Standards with the help of LM/Turkey, there is nothing more reliable Transport then C-130 Hercules OR go for Y-9 which is still unknown regarding its operational rediness.

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## AnkurPandey

eastwatch said:


> USA is asking BD to take many of its armaments when it withdraws from Afghanistan in 2014. You can expect then the latest version of C-130 in BAF/BA.


 Why BD always inducts second hand planes that too gifted by some one ? And then dream of matching Indians and Burmese ?


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## Avisheik

AnkurPandey said:


> Why BD always inducts second hand planes that too gifted by some one ? And then dream of matching Indians and Burmese ?



Match your air force ??? 

Nobody can match your death kills by your flying coffins o great indian.

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## Zabaniyah

AnkurPandey said:


> Why BD always inducts second hand planes that too gifted by some one ? And then dream of matching Indians and Burmese ?



Where did he in that post say that Bangladesh is going to match against India and Burma? When did Bangladesh officially say that it will go to war with India or Burma? The armed forces of Bangladesh is not centered around any particular country.


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## AnkurPandey

Zabaniya said:


> Where did he in that post say that Bangladesh is going to match against India and Burma? When did Bangladesh officially say that it will go to war with India or Burma? The armed forces of Bangladesh is not centered around any particular country.



I never said BD govt ever said that .... but every BD member do say that ... I think you need to check out the numerous threads on BD forum if you need proof.


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## Zabaniyah

^Why so obsessed?


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## Avisheik

AnkurPandey said:


> I never said BD govt ever said that .... but every BD member do say that ... I think you need to check out the numerous threads on BD forum if you need proof.



We never said we want to atack india or burma, these are for defence purposes in case they attack us, we only want modern planes for our air force. But everytime we start discussing some indian will ask why we need a standing military, that p!sses everyone off

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## M.H.J.

Defence Power Of Bangladesh





- MHJ ...


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## RA-ONE

.......Dada Darun Chhabi....,I was not even aware that BAF have so many nice plane like Mig29...
Any way India will be there for any time Bangladesh need help & no one can dare to come near by, I think..

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## kobiraaz

Ra- Welcome bro, you are yet to be possessed by PDF... Good luck mate


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## integra

The naive ones don't last long before turning out to be the devil themselves


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## RA-ONE

integra said:


> The naive ones don't last long before turning out to be the devil themselves


Yes every country should have the right to take defensive countermeasure as per their own threat perception, But an Indo-bangladesh clash is seems to be impossible in decades to come..long live bangladesh..


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## eastwatch

AnkurPandey said:


> Why BD always inducts second hand planes that too gifted by some one ? And then dream of matching Indians and Burmese ?



Every big power knows we are surrounded by hostile big neighbours. This is why Russia is selling us NEW armamaments including 8 Mig-29SMT, 16 YAK-130 training jets and probably a sq. or half of Su-30MK2 that will cost us $850 million. China is supplying us with NEW armaments that include a sq. of F-7BGI and 44 MBT-2000. The cost of Chinese purchase is $800 million. 

Now, about the purchase from the USA. It is not really a gift. USA is the policeman of the world, but it cannot just send its troops anywhere it wants in the peacekeeping works. A small country like BD fills in the small part of that gap. It sends its troops to the death traps in foreign countries. 

As a token of gratitude USA sends us tiny military gifts in exchange, but these are not totally free of cost. Many of our 800 battle tanks were also gifted by the USA which they took from Iraq. We are expecting a huge quantity of military hardware gifts, also not a total free, when USA disengages from Afghanistan in 2014. US govt has explicitly said about that. 

This is how we have both new and used armaments. All the three big powers are helping us getting a strong foothold so that our neighbours do not try to bully us.

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## Lighting_Fighter

eastwatch said:


> Every big power knows we are surrounded by hostile big neighbours. This is why Russia is selling us NEW armamaments including 8 Mig-29SMT, 16 YAK-130 training jets and probably a sq. or half of Su-30MK2 that will cost us $850 million. China is supplying us with NEW armaments that include a sq. of F-7BGI and 44 MBT-2000. The cost of Chinese purchase is $800 million.
> 
> Now, about the purchase from the USA. It is not really a gift. USA is the policeman of the world, but it cannot just send its troops anywhere it wants in the peacekeeping works. A small country like BD fills in the small part of that gap. It sends its troops to the death traps in foreign countries.
> 
> As a token of gratitude USA sends us tiny military gifts in exchange, but these are not totally free of cost. Many of our 800 battle tanks were also gifted by the USA which they took from Iraq. We are expecting a huge quantity of military hardware gifts, also not a total free, when USA disengages from Afghanistan in 2014. US govt has explicitly said about that.
> 
> This is how we have both new and used armaments. All the three big powers are helping us getting a strong foothold so that our neighbours do not try to bully us.


 
What are the interests of these 3 big powers by helping bangladesh militarity as you have mentioned?


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## Lone

...Any credible news of HQ-9 operating in BAF? When we inducted it? where is it deployed?


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## Rokto14

no use getting this aircrafts. they are old. i think we can buy even better ones.


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## White Lightning

*India sends back Bangladesh Air Force pilot*

Flight Cadet Rasheed Sheikh of the BAF was flown back to Dhaka today evening from Kolkata in an AN-32 transport aircraft, Sqn Ldr Priya Joshi, IAF spokesperson, said here.

Rasheed had taken off from Bangladesh Air Force Academy, based in Jessore, for a routine training sortie on a PT-6 trainer aircraft.


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## kobiraaz

*( copyright: all my photos are stolen from other people)*

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## boltu

Pilot tare toh Salman Shah er moto lagtese


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## Lionaides

Rokto14 said:


> no use getting this aircrafts. they are old. i think we can buy even better ones.


 
which aircraft r u mentioning????


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## PlanetSoldier

boltu said:


> Pilot tare toh Salman Shah er moto lagtese



Salman Shah movie korsilo na "Banglar akash rakhibo mukto"- shei movie'r scene r ki....  .

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## Rokto14

eastwatch said:


> USA is asking BD to take many of its armaments when it withdraws from Afghanistan in 2014. You can expect then the latest version of C-130 in BAF/BA.


 you mean the newest variant of C-130?



Lionaides said:


> which aircraft r u mentioning????


I meant the F 7 n MiG 29


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## eastwatch

Rokto14 said:


> you mean the newest variant of C-130?



Unfortunately it is not C-190H but C-130E. But, I have heard BAF may modify the 4 Hercules to 'H' grade.


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## kobiraaz



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## kobiraaz



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## kobiraaz



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## Major Shaheb

RA-ONE said:


> .......Dada Darun Chhabi....,I was not even aware that BAF have so many nice plane like Mig29...
> Any way India will be there for any time Bangladesh need help & no one can dare to come near by, I think..


 
Dhonnobad dada..

Apnake PDF a shagotom...


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## Lionaides

&#2438;&#2478;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; F-7 BGI &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503; &#2438;&#2488;&#2476;&#2503; &#2453;&#2476;&#2503;???? &#2447;&#2439; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2463;&#2495;&#2480; &#2453;&#2507;&#2472;&#2507; &#2453;&#2472;&#2488;&#2503;&#2474;&#2509;&#2463; &#2459;&#2476;&#2495; &#2453;&#2495; &#2453;&#2494;&#2480;&#2507; &#2453;&#2494;&#2459;&#2503; &#2438;&#2459;&#2503;???


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## Major Shaheb

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...lass-guided-missile-frigates.html#post3001091


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## M.H.J.

&#2536;&#2534;&#2535;&#2536;-&#2536;&#2534;&#2535;&#2537; &#2437;&#2480;&#2509;&#2469;&#2476;&#2459;&#2480;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2494;&#2478;&#2480;&#2495;&#2453; &#2476;&#2494;&#2460;&#2503;&#2463; &#2471;&#2480;&#2494; &#2489;&#2458;&#2509;&#2459;&#2503; &#2478;&#2507;&#2463; &#2476;&#2494;&#2460;&#2503;&#2463;&#2503;&#2480; &#2540;.&#2542; &#2486;&#2468;&#2494;&#2434;&#2486;&#2404; &#2479;&#2494;&#2480; &#2474;&#2480;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2494;&#2527; &#2535;&#2536;&#2543;&#2542;&#2539; &#2453;&#2507;&#2463;&#2495; &#2463;&#2494;&#2453;&#2494;&#2404;



- MHJ ...

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## Lighting_Fighter

M.H.J. said:


> &#2536;&#2534;&#2535;&#2536;-&#2536;&#2534;&#2535;&#2537; &#2437;&#2480;&#2509;&#2469;&#2476;&#2459;&#2480;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2494;&#2478;&#2480;&#2495;&#2453; &#2476;&#2494;&#2460;&#2503;&#2463; &#2471;&#2480;&#2494; &#2489;&#2458;&#2509;&#2459;&#2503; &#2478;&#2507;&#2463; &#2476;&#2494;&#2460;&#2503;&#2463;&#2503;&#2480; &#2540;.&#2542; &#2486;&#2468;&#2494;&#2434;&#2486;&#2404; &#2479;&#2494;&#2480; &#2474;&#2480;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2494;&#2527; &#2535;&#2536;&#2542;&#2542;&#2542; &#2453;&#2507;&#2463;&#2495; &#2463;&#2494;&#2453;&#2494;&#2404;
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...



MHJ bhai, ager bochore koto % chilo?


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## kobiraaz

BAF troops [courtesy MHJ]

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## eastwatch

kobiraaz said:


> Is it true?? DIscuss!
> ...................................................................................
> 
> ^ from an BD army page..............



Please do not destroy the present thread. Would you mind opening a new thread on your pet subject!


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## M.H.J.

F-7BGI China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group Company F-7-based research and development of new models, equipped with improved airborne equipment, including - - - hand throttle lever, hands on the bar, control device (HOTAS) ,control device, three multi-function cockpit displays and a HUD. The machine also has the ability to use guided weapons, the use of GPS signals to transmit high-precision air-guided bombs. The machine also has GPS system for navigation bomb throwing ability due to Bangladesh's orders.

* It is confirmed that F-7BGI is BVR capable,,,so, It will have a different looks and nose for it's new radar...
* Bangladesh have ordered PL-12/SD-10 BVR missile with F-7BGI.
* F-7BGI is the most advanced F-7 variant ever... 
* F-7BGI is a 4th generation fighter.
F-7BGI is cheaper... So, F-7BGI is perfect for "stop gap". 



I guess BAF 's F-7BGI will look like any one of these F-7 models/variants/...

1. F-7FS 





2. F-7X





3. F-7MF








http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/fightersOF02.files/chengdu_F-7MF_FC-1.jpg

4. F-7 Super Seven 









5. JL-9





6. F-7 with CFT







Who knows...???!!!



Thanks,
Regards.



- M. H. Jami.

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## M.H.J.

Bangladesh Air Force (&#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Bafmonogram.jpg
&#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2480; &#2438;&#2453;&#2494;&#2486; &#2480;&#2494;&#2454;&#2495;&#2476; &#2478;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;
Air of Bengal will remain free



31st SQUADRON
BEYOND CALL OF DUTY

Mil Mi 171SH





https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/545461_406230809429590_996184257_n.jpg


25TH SQUADRON
TRENDSETTERS

L-39ZA







8TH SQUADRON
VIGILANCE VALOUR VICTORY

YAK-130







21TH SQUADRON
THE AVENGERS

A-5C







35SQUADRON
THUNDERCAT

F-7MB







5TH SQUADRON
SUPERSONIC

F-7BG







5TH SQUADRON / 21TH SQUADRON
SUPERSONIC / THE AVENGERS

F-7BGI(Upcoming/concept)







8TH SQUADRON
VIGILANCE VALOUR VICTORY

MiG-29SMT/M







- M. H. Jami ...

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## Avisheik

I hope its designed as F-7X. Looks damn beautiful for a 3rd gen bird


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## M.H.J.

Avisheik said:


> I hope its designed as F-7X. Looks damn beautiful for a 3rd gen bird



I heard F-7BGI is a 4th generation fighter.

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## boltu

M.H.J. said:


> I heard F-7BGI is a 4th generation fighter.


Modern avionics with 1950s airframe,3.5 gen at best !!

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## M.H.J.

boltu said:


> Modern avionics with 1950s airframe,3.5 gen at best !!



Modern avionics with new airframe, engine, radar ,,, 4th gen at best !!!




Upcoming F-7BGI radar...

F-7BGI Radar: KLJ-6F Fire control radar
------------------------------------------------








KLJ-6F Fire control radar: The dimention of the radar is same as KLJ-6E but search, track and attack range has been improoved heavily. KLJ-6F is a BVR capable radar with a range of 86+km and it can track upto 6 and engage 2.

Many have contradicted a BVR option for F-7BGI by saying its nose is too small to install one. So, is it correct or should we trust your statement that it is BVR capable that can see multiple targets 85-95 km away and shoot at two targets simultaneously (probably when these are little closer, say 60 or 70 km away).
60 km away, The air frame remains the same. In fact it is based on latest J-7G2.



Upcoming F-7BGI engine...

F-7BGI engine: WP-14C Kunlun 3: 8,360 kg (82 kN) thrust
--------------------------------------------------------------------






WP-14C Kunlun 3 engines have a thrust of 8,360kg. It is almost same as the thrust of JF-17 at 8,700kgf. However JF achieves this thrust at the take off stage when the air is thick. So, It's thrust of 8,360 kg achieved when in thick air at take off stage.
WP-14C engines are proven to be very capable.



[ courtesy: Major Shaheb / http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...e-proposed-defence-budget-2.html#post3036957] 




- MHJ ...

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## boltu

I highly doubt it'll have new airframe,i think it'll look like the BGs with some minor changes.


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## eastwatch

boltu said:


> I highly doubt it'll have new airframe,i think it'll look like the BGs with some minor changes.



However, if BGI is BVR capable, its small nose has to be modified to a longer one. This may require other body changes. In such a case BGI may look a little different from its other cousines, although, I belive the changes will be minor.

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## Major Shaheb

eastwatch said:


> However, if BGI is BVR capable, its small nose has to be modified to a longer one. This may require other body changes. In such a case BGI may look a little different from its other cousines, although, I belive the changes will be minor.


 
You are getting it wrong my friend. F-7BGI will have the same airframe as J-7G2. Its basically the same airframe as F-7BG with a little change in its double delta wing design and tail section. The new KLJ-6F radar is of same size as KLJ-6E but with greater range of 86+ km. So, there will be no change in the intake or the nose section.

J-7G2:

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## eastwatch

Major Shaheb said:


> You are getting it wrong my friend. F-7BGI will have the same airframe as J-7G2. Its basically the same airframe as F-7BG with a little change in its double delta wing design and tail section. The new KLJ-6F radar is of same size as KLJ-6E but with greater range of 86+ km. So, there will be no change in the intake or the nose section.
> 
> J-7G2:



How many hardpoints the BGI will have, seven including one below the fuselege? For other matters, as far as I understand Mig-21 is the only plane in the world that is still in demand. It is a proved platform. However, it cannot probably be improved any further. So, my question is how capable this BGI will be in terms of its basic function as a bomber as well as its probable role as a multifunction plane?


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## meranaamankurhai

Major Shaheb said:


> You are getting it wrong my friend. F-7BGI will have the same airframe as J-7G2. Its basically the same airframe as F-7BG with a little change in its double delta wing design and tail section. The new KLJ-6F radar is of same size as KLJ-6E but with greater range of 86+ km. So, there will be no change in the intake or the nose section.
> 
> J-7G2:



My honest opinion is that ... its better to have no air force at all instead of operating these WW-2 class fighters.


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## Avisheik

meranaamankurhai said:


> My honest opinion is that ... its better to have no air force at all instead of operating these WW-2 class fighters.



Ankur i think that you are not here to discuss about bangladesh defence rather belittle everything without any prior knowledge. 

India operates about 250 of these "WW2 class fighters", higest number of fighter planes in their inventory. And only in the near future they will be phased out. These planes are interceptor fighters, that means they will intercept any enemy planes in our teritory, bangladesh military adopts a defensive strategy thus we bought this plane. Also these planes will act as stop gap till we get buy 4th gen ighter planes

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## Major Shaheb

meranaamankurhai said:


> My honest opinion is that ... its better to have no air force at all instead of operating these WW-2 class fighters.


 
I believe, instead of buying 3.5 generation F-7BGI or wish to be 4th generation HAL Tejas & JF-17, BAF should procure someting like 4+/4.5 generation Mig-29SMT/M/M2 or Mig-35 or F-16E/F or JAS-39NG or Su-30MK2/3/B and make proper use of the $130million they are spending on BGI.

I really would have hated it more if the govt. didn't use the phrase "Stop Gap".


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## Major Shaheb

eastwatch said:


> How many hardpoints the BGI will have, seven including one below the fuselege? For other matters, as far as I understand Mig-21 is the only plane in the world that is still in demand. It is a proved platform. However, it cannot probably be improved any further. So, my question is how capable this BGI will be in terms of its basic function as a bomber as well as its probable role as a multifunction plane?


 
BGI will have 5 hardpoints in total (though rumor suggest J-7G2 has an extra wingtip hardpoint [i highly doubt] but I believe that is for smoke pod). However the centerline hardpoint is not only for fuel tank anymore. The centerline hardpoint along with the two inner wing hardpoints can be used for BVR missiles, or LGBs or Anti runway bombs or AShMs etc. The KLJ-6F radar is capable enough to track a frigate sized ship from 100 km away, a tank from 20km.
Not the best ground attack aircraft arround.

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## boltu

Thats so cool








BAF ground troops









Credit-M.H.J 's FB page

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## kobiraaz

After specific flight hour BAF used to send aircrafts to china for overhauling purpose..... Now Bangladesh have started overhauling of its training Aircrafts inside Bangladesh which saves 4/5th of the Money! BAF is now working ON F7 overhauling plant with Help from China.........

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## boltu

kobiraaz said:


> After specific flight hour BAF used to send aircrafts to china for overhauling purpose..... Now Bangladesh have started overhauling of its training Aircrafts inside Bangladesh which saves 4/5th of the Money! BAF is now working ON F7 overhauling plant with Help from China.........


I've also heard that BAF gonna overhaul SLAF F-7s.

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## boltu

During Induction of F-7MBs












First F-7MB of BAF

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## Avisheik

Since BAF ground troops exist, i think its about time we should consider creating a commando unit for the BAF. It will significantly increase the strengths of our military

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## bd_4_ever

boltu said:


> I've also heard that BAF gonna overhaul SLAF F-7s.



Man, dont say that! Now 'Lankan Ranger' is going to come up with pics of them overhauling US planes and say how can we overhaul theirs.. :facepalm:


Cheers!!!

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## bd_4_ever

Avisheik said:


> Since BAF ground troops exist, i think its about time we should consider creating a commando unit for the BAF. It will significantly increase the strengths of our military



BAF already has a land-based squadron dedicated to such work. Its the 41 Squadron. Its base is Rajendrapur Cantonment. They perform work like defence of ground BAF facilities, spying and carrying out rescue operations.

Take a look:-

Bangladesh Air Force - 41 Squadron - YouTube

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## Avisheik

bd_4_ever said:


> BAF already has a land-based squadron dedicated to such work. Its the 41 Squadron. Its base is Rajendrapur Cantonment. They perform work like defence of ground BAF facilities, spying and carrying out rescue operations.
> 
> Take a look:-
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force - 41 Squadron - YouTube



Damn didnt know about them. But the name sounds so boring, I propose naming them something else.


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## Lighting_Fighter

any new info?


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## boltu

Some shots are supercool

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## Zabaniyah

Oh yeah....

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## ziaulislam

BAF shouldnt acquire F-7s they are too old and too oudated..
operating a smaller number of gripen,mig 29,refurbished F-16s or jf-17s would be a better option.


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## rahathminhaj

man!! wait till 2016


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## kobiraaz



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## Zabaniyah

Enjoy boys

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## Rokto14

Lionaides said:


> which aircraft r u mentioning????


F18 i guess or Eurothunder


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## Rokto14

Avisheik said:


> I hope its designed as F-7X. Looks damn beautiful for a 3rd gen bird


chok chok korlei shona hoi na...


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## Avisheik

Rokto14 said:


> chok chok korlei shona hoi na...



na bhai, amra imitation jewellery porte onek valobashi. Ebong ke bidghute imitation jewellery kene?? Imitation jewellery kintechi, tai jeta dekhte shundor shetai kinbo.


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## Avisheik

* Certificate award ceremony of BAF Flying Instructors&#8217; Course held*

Certificate award ceremony of No 44 Flying Instructors&#8217; Course of Bangladesh Air Force was held at BAF Base Bir Shreshtho Matiur Rahman on Sunday.

Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Muhammad Enamul Bari attended the ceremony as chief guest and distributed certificates among the student-officers.

Ten Officers from Bangladesh Air Force took part in the course. 

Squadron Leader Mahmud Ahmed of Bangladesh Air Force was adjudged the best all-round student-officer and was awarded with the &#8216;Mofiz Trophy&#8217;, said an ISPR release.

Speaking on the occasion Chief of Air Staff said that the dignity, honour and duty attached to a qualified flying instructor demanded selfless dedication, exemplary professionalism, patience and proficiency. 

BAF relies on the service of each qualified flying instructor in making new pilots, he added. 

Earlier, Officer Commanding of Flying Instructors&#8217; School (FIS) Wing Commander M Asadul Karim gave a brief resume on the courses conducted by Flying Instructors&#8217; School.

Among others, Assistant Chief of Air Staff (Operations and Training) Air Vice Marshal Abu Esrar, Air Officer Commanding of BAF Base Bir Shreshtho Matiur Rahman Air Commodore Md Anwarul Haque Sardar and senior BAF officers were present on the occasion.

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## Rokto14

Avisheik said:


> na bhai, amra imitation jewellery porte onek valobashi. Ebong ke bidghute imitation jewellery kene?? Imitation jewellery kintechi, tai jeta dekhte shundor shetai kinbo.


LOL thats a nice joke haha


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## Zabaniyah

Zabaniya said:


>



Now it reminds of a freaking Decepticon jet

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## kalu_miah

In the wiki article on BAF it says:
Bangladesh Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Future Modernization Program
> 
> BAF has an ongoing modernization program that includes plan to introduce 20-32 4+ generation fighter aircraft. The chief of air staff of Bangladesh air force, Air Marshal Shah Mohammad Ziaur Rahman has revealed this long-term procurement plan in Defense IQ 2011 International Fighter Aircraft Conference in London. *According to him, the aircraft are being evaluated primarily are Mig-29CMT and Lockheed Martin F-16. The Sukhoi Su-30 and SAAB JAS-39 Gripen are also in evaluation.* The order should materialize within 10&#8211;15 years according to him. In the meantime one squadron of stop-gap light fighter Chengdu F-7BGI has been ordered and to be delivered in 2012. These aircraft are of new variant are equipped with advanced avionics shall include HOTAS Contol, three MFD display and HUD. The aircraft shall also be equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. The existing Mig-29 in inventory shall also be upgraded to Mig-29SMT standard. The air force will also acquire a squadron of Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) to replace the existing L-39 inventory.
> *Bangladesh Airforce is signing a contract with Russia for 8 Mig-29 M2, 16 Yak-130 AJT and YAK-152s to replace her age old fleet of PT-6. After two years of receiving these aircraft Bangladesh Airforce will introduce SU-30MK2s.[3]*
> May 22, 2012 &#8211; The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Bangladesh to provide regeneration, overhaul, modifications, and logistics support for 4 Lockheed Martin C-130Es and associated parts, equipment, and training for an estimated cost of $180 million.



Has BAF already decided against F-16 and chose Su-30MK2?

Here is a comparison between Su-30MKI and F-16:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-3665-postdays-0-postorder-asc.html

What I got from above discussion is that Russian fighters cannot match the best radar in US ones, so an F16-E/F Block 60 (50-55 million/piece, delivered to UAE) can lock on any Su-xx much earlier than they can even see the F16, which means that Su-xx will be hit before they know what hit them. Russian fighters are good for fancy dog fight maneuvers with thrust vectors, a situation that rarely happens in today's fight for air superiority.

For trainer we should look at the Korean KAI TA-50, which can work as a trainer as well an attack aircraft.

For future military hardware purchase, we need to start moving away from Russia and China towards US and Korea more, as this matches our strategic direction for US Asian Pivot policy. Korea is developing a lot of indigenous projects using and copying US licensed technology, which can be much higher quality than Russian or Chinese hardware, even though it may cost slightly more. But in the long run, Koreans I am sure will provide better training and service than Russians or Chinese, so the total cost of ownership over the life time of the products may actually be lower.

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## bdslph

Zabaniya said:


> Now it reminds of a freaking Decepticon jet



TRANSFORMER the movie


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## kobiraaz



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## kobiraaz



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## Avisheik

*Indian Air Force team calls on Air Chief*

A four-member Indian Air Force delegation led by Assistant Chief of Air Staff (PA & C) Air Vice-Marshal SRK Nair called on Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Muhammad Enamul Bari at the Air Headquarters in Dhaka Cantonment on Wednesday.

They discussed matters of professional interest, said an ISPR release.

Indian Air Force delegation also visited BAF Base Bir Shreshtha Matiur Rahman and BAF Base Kurmitola

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## kobiraaz



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## mil-avia

*Bangladesh Defence


*

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## kobiraaz

mil-avia said:


> *Bangladesh Defence
> 
> 
> *



Please tell the owner to launch a forum......................

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## The_Sidewinder

@kalu miah..
With all due respect latest f16 block 60 radars are although superior to russians in many aspects but Zuk_ME Bars radars have a much superior detection range. Thats why Sukhoi 30 MKI Is also called as mini AWACS. I dont want to create any troll fest out here, but tracking a jet and engageing it with BVR missiles are two different things. As soon as missile comes under sukhoi's radar detection it will take evasive action through jamming, manuvering and flairs. Also in process launch its own BVR missiles towards its adverseries. 
So you can call that striking a sukhoi with a BVR missile without even giving them a clue is just a myth.
Every1 seems to be forgeting about force multipliers like awacs etc.
On topic: good going BAF. With time BAF will be a real potent air force.


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## kobiraaz



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## fatman17

*BATTLIN&#8217;G FOR BANGLADESH.*


BANGLADESH HAS shown remarkable resolve and resilience since gaining independence 37 years ago. In doing so it has built a strong and professional military, used more often for nation building than for conflict.

However, like so many countries in this part of the world, a crisis never seems to be far away, which demands a high state of operational readiness from its military. The Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), with a force of about 11,000 personnel operating a mixed bag of fighters, helicopters and transport aircraft from the east and west, has the responsibility of defending its air space from any intruder.

In an exclusive interview, the BAF Chief of the Air Staff, Air Marshal SM Ziaur Rahman, told AFM that his force had three main objectives: to defend the air space of the country, provide support to ground forces and to assist the government when called for, particularly during any natural disasters.

Unfortunately, Bangladesh suffers its fair share of these because, as a low-lying delta, it is regularly threatened by floods owing to monsoon rains, tidal bore and cyclones coming off the Bay of Bengal.

As well as handling these crises, the BAF supports UN peacekeeping operations.

Like many former British colonies, the BAF is based on the RAF ranking system. Unlike Pakistan, it has kept its traditional RAF rank lapels. There are four wings at each operational air base: Operations, Flying, Maintenance and Administration. The head of each wing is usually a Group Captain reporting to the Air Officer Commanding (AOC) of the base.

Like any professional air force, the BAF keeps its operational readiness at a high level to meet any potential security threats, although none are deemed to be at the severe level they have sometimes been in the past.

Bangladesh currently enjoys good relations with neighbouring India, which surrounds the majority of its borders. However, until the 1996 Ganges Water Treaty, relations between the two countries were strained. This agreement ensures India allows 45% of the River Ganges water, a main source of fresh water for the 37-year-old state, to flow down from the Himalayas into Bangladesh. However, there are concerns that India could cut off this water.

Another source of potential tension would be if India recommenced the sheltering, arming and training of Chakma rebels, should the group choose to launch another insurgency. The Chakma had run a guerrilla campaign against Bangladesh&#8217;s security forces, over land disputes, until they were finally resolved in December 1997, when the Chittagong Hill Tracts Peace Accord was signed.
There is no official maritime boundary with Myanmar in the south east, so there is also the possibility of a stand-off between the two countries over the exploration of huge amounts of oil and gas, as well as fishing rights, which conceivably could escalate into war. In November 2008, Myanmar allegedly began oil and gas extraction in the disputed waters in the Bay of Bengal, which led to the Bangladesh Navy promptly sending vessels to the area to monitor the situation. One senior government advisor vowed: &#8220;we will defend our sovereignty at all costs.&#8221;

In 1978 and 1982, Myanmar allegedly forced ethnic minority Muslim Rohingya refugees into Bangladesh and there is concern history could repeat itself.

Fighter Force
With the huge responsibility of defending its air space, the Bangladesh Air Force has built up a strong fighter force, and like many air forces that need a cost-effective solution to defending a nation&#8217;s sovereignty, has found China a good source of aircraft inventory, although there is a sprinkling of types from the USA, Russia and the Czech Republic. China has been a regular source for fighters since the late-1970s when the BAF acquired several Shenyang FT-5s (two seat MiG-17 trainers) and FT-6s (two seat MiG-19s). The FT-5s have now gone but the FT-6s soldier on. During the 1980s, Pakistan donated around 20 Shenyang F-6s, however most of these were destroyed during the terrible cyclone that hit BAF Base Zahurul Haque at Chittagong in 1991.

They may have been rendered useless by the effects of corrosion, but many of them have been preserved at BAF facilities all over the country.

In the late-1980s 16 A-5IIIs were delivered to 21 Squadron at Kurmitola to fulfil the ground attack/ close air support role and are still operational today alongside the dual-seat FT-6s, which are used to train A-5 pilots and keep them proficient. Both aircraft types now fly out of Chittagong in southern Bangladesh, not far from the Myanmar border.

Despite their age and creeping obsolescence the BAF is putting them through a life extension programme that will enable them to fly for another ten years. BAF technicians and Chinese specialists have already carried out this work on three FT-6s at Chittagong, and attention has now been switched to three A-5s and another four FT-6s.

Kurmitola Air Base, inside Dhaka&#8217;s sprawling military cantonment, is the BAF&#8217;s showcase facility, where the majority of its fighters are based, tucked away behind the trees at Dhaka&#8217;s Zia International Airport. It has been home to a squadron of Chengdu F-7MB/FT-7Bs (Chinese-built MiG-21s) since December 1989, when the supersonic air defence fighters were delivered to 35 &#8216;Thundercats&#8217; Sqn. Gp Capt Mafidur Rahman, the current Officer Commanding (OC) of the Flying Wing at Kurmitola, was a young pilot with 5 &#8216;Supersonics&#8217; Sqn, flying MiG-21MFs, when he was posted to Chengdu in 1989 to train on the new fighter. He was one of the 16 pioneers, led by Wg Cdr Mirza Akter Maruf, who were trained to fly the F-7BG and who subsequently ferried the aircraft to Kurmitola.

They eventually went on to form the nucleus of a new unit, 35 Sqn, when it officially stood up on March 28, 1990.
At the time, the multi-role F-7MB, equipped with two PL-7 air-to-air missiles and an arsenal of rockets and bombs, was the most modern fighter serving the BAF. Only one year later, the BAF retired the MiG-21MFs, which meant that 5 Sqn no longer had their own aircraft, and so the F-7MBs were pooled between 35 and 5 Sqn. 

In 1999, the BAF acquired six single-seat MiG-29 Fulcrum-As and two Fulcrum-Bs from Russia for a reputed $115 million. Ten Bangladeshi pilots and 70 technicians travelled to Krasnador in southern Russia for four months to train on the aircraft. The MiG-29s are equipped with the N019M Slot Back air interdiction radar, an IRST (Infra Red Search while Track) sensor and a Helmet Mounted Sighting system that interfaces with the R-60 (NATO name: AA-8 Aphid) and R-73 (AA-11 Archer) air-to-air missiles. The MiG-29s also have tactical air support, close air support and recce roles, and work regularly with the Army and Navy.
Since the MiG-29s have been delivered to 8 Sqn, there have been ten terms of command, with Wg Cdr Hasan Mahmood Khan taking on the role as OC no less than three times in that ten-year period.

Today Wg Cdr Khair ul Afsar is the OC, having taken over in May 2008. There had been much speculation that the MiG-29s are grounded and for sale, but according to the current OC that is not true. While there has been an investigation into alleged corruption by a senior politician at the time of the MiG-29 acquisition in 1999, the BAF has always been happy with the primary air defender.

Talks are currently underway to send four MiG-29s abroad, where work will be done jointly by BAF technicians and a foreign overhaul factory. This is part of the transfer of knowledge policy now being adopted, so that work on the other four aircraft can be done in country.

In 1999, when the BAF COAS was then working as OC Flying Wing at an operational base, he visited Zhuhai Air Show in China, where the double-delta winged F-7MG was being marketed.

Subsequent studies of the aircraft took place over a six-year period, and the Government opted to purchase 12 F-7BGs and four FT-7BGs (B denoting Bangladesh) for the BAF in 2005.

A couple of pilots, including Gp Capt Mafidur Rahman, who had served as OC 5 Sqn three times, were sent to Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) in 2005 to evaluate the aircraft and check out the specifications, before the Government signed a formal contract later that year. In 1997, the Pakistan Air Force had also sent two pilots to Chengdu (see Pakistan&#8217;s New Fighters, October 2003, p42-49) for an evaluation of the aircraft, followed in 2001 by several PAF pilots that trained on the jets. It was not surprising then that CAC&#8217;s Chinese cooks knew how to cook a great spicy curry &#8211; much to Gp Capt Mafidur&#8217;s delight!
On April 4, 2006, the F-7BGs were formally inducted into the BAF to serve 5 Sqn, under the leadership of Wg Cdr Qazi Mazharul Karim. According to the BAF, these &#8216;all-weather multi-role advanced supersonic aircraft have an improved air combat manoeuvrability (when compared to the earlier F-7MB) and a longer endurance with a stronger air-to-air and air-to-ground capability&#8217;. The F-7BG is equipped with a Chinese SY-80 radar, copied from Italy&#8217;s FIAR Grifo, to provide the aircraft with its main sensor and is highly rated for its versatility.

Two weeks before their official entry into service, the BAF signed a contract with PAC Kamra on March 19, 2006, that allows the procurement, repair and overhaul of spare parts for their fleet of F-7, A-5III and FT-6s.

Flying Training
Defending the nation is one of the top priorities of many young Bangladeshi men and women and if they have the necessary qualifications, they can enter the BAF Academy at Mathiur Rahman Air Base in Jessore. The facility is situated in the southwest of the country about 18 miles (30 kms) from the Indian border.

Wg Cdr Mazhar was the OC for Flying Training Wing at Matiur Rahman during my visit. He is a veteran F-7MB/BG fighter pilot who has served as an instructor at the Flying Academy and the advanced jet training squadron/25 Sqn, so he has a great pedigree.
The base is usually very busy with T-37s, PT-6s and Bell 206s taking off, landing or flying in the circuit, however, the area is often susceptible to mist during the winter, as it was during the author&#8217;s visit, so instead of flying early the OC FTW delayed it until around 10-11am and continued non stop until 3pm.

When the Officer Cadets come here, they spend the first year studying for a science engineering BSc as well as carrying out their officer training. In the second year, trainee pilots will report to 11 Sqn to fly the Nanchang PT-6 (a Chinese Yak-18). More than 40 of these Chinese radial engine trainers have been delivered to the BAF since 1977, providing the BAF with an affordable and effective solution to their flying training requirements. The Instructors will spend 120 hours teaching the cadet how to fly a military aircraft &#8211; starting from the aircraft&#8217;s ground handling characteristics right up to formation flying.

If the cadet convinces his instructors he can do this safely, he will progress to a second year of flying. Failure will mean a ground-based trade awaits him &#8211; perhaps as an engineer, or in air traffic control, education or administration.

The grades he gains during his primary flying training dictate his next career move: fighters, transports or helicopters. Generally, the top students of the course will go to fighters and they will be posted to the Basic Flying Training phase with 15 Sqn and their Cessna T-37Bs. The BAF acquired 12 T-37Bs from the USAF in 1997, to replace the CM-170R Magisters that now reside in excellent condition on the edge of the 15 Sqn ramp. A handful of &#8216;Tweetys&#8217;, as the T-37Bs are called, remain operational, although all 12 are still with the BAF. Students spend 35 hours spanning five months flying the T-37B. If they fail the course, they will be offered an alternative career flyingCtransports or helicopters. Upon the successful
completion of their basic flying training, the worldCof flying real fighters fast approaches and the next
step is a move to 25 Sqn at BAF Base ZahurulCHaque, Chittagong. This is where the advanced jet training is carried out with one of the eight L-39ZAs supplied in the mid-1980s. During 2003, four L-39ZAs were sent to Aerostar based at Bacau, Romania, for overhaul and a limited upgrade that included the installation of a new US gun-sight.

Any pilots deemed unsuitable for fighters but good enough to fly transport aircraft will still fly the T-37 after the PT-6. It is quite unusual to fly a jet trainer while learning how to become a transport pilot, but a lack of any suitable twin-engined propeller aircraft in the BAF inventory means that there is no alternative solution. These pilots will fly 45 hours in the T-37 without any tactical or formation flying on the course. Once transport training is completed, the pilot will usually be posted to 3 Sqn at Chittagong, flying An-32s.

After completing the primary flying training course flying PT-6s, those pilots selected for the helicopter stream will move to 18 Sqn and the US-built Bell 206Ls. They may have been acquired back in the 1970s, but the four Bells remain a good platform to learn the basics of flying helicopters.

Like all the other courses, pilots will go through a ground school before progressing on to a 45-hour course, which lasts six months. A successful conclusion to helicopter training, will see the pilot progress to Bell 212s or Mi-17s.

Helicopter Ops
Not too surprisingly, given the nature of its regular humanitarian relief work and and air logistics support to the Army in the hilly districts of Chittagong, helicopters play a major part in the BAF&#8217;s day-to-day requirements. There are three operational helicopter units flying from two air bases: at Tejgaon: 31 &#8216;Apollo&#8217; Sqn flies Russian-built Mi-17/171 Hips and 9 &#8216;Scorpions&#8217; Sqn operates Bell 212s, while in the south of the country at Chittagong, 1 &#8216;Cobras&#8217; Sqn fly a mix of Bell 212s and Mi-17/171s.

Around ten Bell 212s were delivered to 9 Sqn during 1976-77 for low-medium lift transport, which until that time was being fulfilled by former Indian Air Force Alouette IIIs and ex-Royal Navy Wessex HU.5s that had been operating with the unit since it was formed in 1975 by Air Cdr Erfanuddin.

Lightweight and with a capability of carrying up to 2,200 lbs, the Bell 212s have proved their worth over the past 30 years in many relief flights that have rescued thousands of civilians during the regular monsoon rains that sweep in off the Bay of Bengal between June and October. However, their work is not confined to the country&#8217;s domestic needs. Two Bell 212s were deployed to Kuwait and East Timor on UN Missions (see later) for several years, and during the tsunami in late-2005, a pair of Bell 212s was sent to the Maldives and Sri Lanka to help with the relief effort there for around 20 days.

Since the decline in militant operations along the Chittagong Hill Tracts, the air logistics support role of the Bell 212 has diminished, although they are regularly used for disaster relief operations, both at home and abroad.

Helicopter pilots leaving the Flying Academy at Jessore will go to Tejgaon to fly either of two helicopters - Bell 212 or Mi-17. Wg Cdr Sohal Latif, OC 1 Sqn based at Chittagong, is a Mi-17 and a Bell 212 pilot. I met him at Tejgaon, along with his Academy course colleague Wg Cdr Mahmudun Nabi, the OC of 9 Sqn, who flies Bell 212s today, although he is also an Mi-17 pilot. After graduating from the Academy in 1987, they went their own ways, Sohel to Bell 212s and Nabi to Mi-8s that had been operational since 1983. When the Mi-17s were introduced in 1991 he started flying them too until the Mi-8s were eventually retired in 1995. Both pilots served on UN helicopter deployments and enjoyed their overseas operational commitments because it brought them into completely different environments &#8211; culturally and at work.

Over the years, the BAF Mi-17 force has increased substantially in size and there are now around 20 Hips of different variants (Mi-17, Mi-171, Mi-171Sh and Mi-17-1V) in service. It is not surprising that the BAF, like so many other other air forces, has looked to this relatively cheap heavyweight helicopter to fulfil many of its transport, troop carrying and special role requirements. Its robustness, as well as the ability of lifting some 6,600 lbs (3,000kg) of cargo, means it can carry four times more than the Bell 212.

The BAF purchased its first armed Mi-171Shon March 21, 2007. During the procurement process, 30 officers and airmen were trained in this new armed role, giving the BAF a combat support capability as well as its more established logistical role. The helicopter was flown to the Rasulpur firing range where it carried out several armament missions. Subsequent work on further Mi-171s is now complete and the BAF is currently training helicopter crews and Special Forces personnel in the Combat Search and Rescue role.

As well as the three operational helicopter squadrons, there is the 101 Special Flying Unit, formed in 2001 to fly VVIPs in its two modified Mi-17-1Vs, which have been acquired over the past couple of years. Most of the unit&#8217;s pilots must be highly experienced, with Category A (VVIP) or B (VIP) qualifications although there are several Category C pilots who put the helicopters through ground runs or test-flights.

UN Air Ops
Despite the needs of its own country, the BAF plays an active part in United Nations peacekeeping operations. In fact Bangladesh could be said to put several western countries to shame with its regular contributions to the UN. The BAF deployments are known as (BANAIR &#8211; Bangladesh Air) and started in 1995, when seventeen 9 Sqn personnel along with one Bell 212 were deployed to Camp Khor in Kuwait (BANAIR-1). The BAF flew over 20,000 hours without a major mishap in the eight years it was there.

The BAF acknowledge the great experience they gain on such deployments. One pilot told me &#8220;It was great being there able to support the people&#8211; you felt you were really doing something. My job was to fly UN observers ensuring that the No Fly Zone was enforced, as well as ferrying UN personnel along the De-Militarized Zone (DMZ) between Iraq and Kuwait. We also fulfilled a Casevac (Casualty Evacuation) and Medevac (Medical Evacuation) role whenever needed.&#8221;

So appreciative was the UN with the BAF&#8217;s efforts that it extended the BANAIR-1 mission until the UN pulled out on March 20, 2003, following the US and its allied coalition attacked Iraq.

Within six months of BANAIR-1 ending, the BAF had set up BANAIR-2, an aviation unit and airfield support unit (ASU) detachment at Bunia in north-west Congo as part of MONUC (United Nations Mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo). The Bangladesh Government also committed 1,300 of its soldiers to this UN Peacekeeping mission in August 2004 and to date the BAF has flown 12,000 hours in the six years they have been at Bunia.

Five Mi-17s deployed from 31 Sqn at Tejgaon are responsible for providing air support to UN troops in the area of their responsibility. Due to the poor road network in the Congo, the Mi-17s main priority is transporting UN troops around the country. BAF Hips regularly fly Pakistani Army troops around the UN&#8217;s area of responsibility, with air cover being provided by Indian Air Force Mi-25 Hinds.

It is a unique operation, in which Pakistani and Indian personnel forget their political differences and work together. There have been several incidents where Indian Air Force Mi-25 gunships have saved many Pakistani lives. The BANAIR mission, with its five Mi-17s, continues in the Democratic Republic of Congo today, although six years on it is known as BANAIR-6.

Another UN operation that saw a BAF helicopter commitment, was UNMISET (UN Mission in East Timor). From October 25, 2003 until June 7, 2005, BANAIR-1 was based in East Timor, with a pair of Bell 212s, to transport UN troops keeping the peace and supervising East Timor&#8217;s transition from being part of the Indonesia archipelago to independence.

Bangladesh has deployed over 8,000 UN peacekeepers to 12 different countries.

Transports
Four long range C-130B Hercules acquired from US stocks in 2001 and three short-haul An-32s that joined the inventory in 1989 currently fulfill the BAF&#8217;s air transport needs. With the domestic road and train networks being relatively slow, they are valuable assets, particularly for transporting troops and helping out with any humanitarian relief work. The An-32&#8217;s robustness and short takeoff capabilities are ideal for the latter.

No.3 Sqn at Chittagong flies the An-32s, which are the real workhorses of the BAF&#8217;s transport fleet. Testimony to this is a visit to the Czech Republic in November 2007. The An-32 left Jessore on November 17 for a four-day flight that routed through Delhi (India), Karachi (Pakistan &#8211; night stopped), Dubai (UAE), King Khalid (Saudi Arabia), Amman (Jordan &#8211; night stopped), Ankara (Turkey), Istanbul (Turkey &#8211; night stopped), Budapest (Hungary) and finally Kunovice (Czech Republic). Though it was a long haul, it provided the aircrew with an opportunity to fly on international routes, which some had never experienced before. On November 25, the aircraft left the Czech Republic and returned to Bangladesh on November 28. Like the An-32s in India, the BAF examples have a limited bombing capability and often practice their skills in case of war.

All the C-130Bs serve 101 Special Flying Unit, alongside a couple of Mi-171s for VIP/VVIP requirements. Although the C-130Bs may be among the oldest Hercules now flying, three have been through recent overhauls, possibly their first since they were delivered. Work on one was carried out by AIROD in Malaysia, but two went on an epic journey to ENAER in Chile, where they stayed for a year at a time. Another C-130B has been grounded for a while, but work on this aircraft is to be carried out in Bangladesh. TheBAF hopes that it can work in partnership with a foreign company that specialises in overhauling C-130s in Bangladesh and that it will transfer their technological know-how in a bid to stop the flow of much needed foreign currency out of the country as well as keeping the work here.

There have been several instances when the BAF has asked foreign companies to carry out repair work, for example on a runway barrier and a high-g chamber, but the costs were prohibitive. Instead, local people who had specialist skills found solutions and did not charge a penny &#8211; preferring to &#8216;do their bit&#8217; for the country.

Self Sufficiency 
During my travels I heard of many cases of the BAF&#8217;s ingenuity. In 2006 there was a need for a second radio transmitter for emergency purposes to be installed in their fleet of Mi-17s. Rather than spend much needed foreign currency on procuring the systems from abroad, BAF engineers looked to overcome the problem themselves. With several retired CM-170 Magisters in store, the BAF elected to take the Collins radio out of one of them and install it in a Mi-17 along with other pieces of kit and harnessing. The radio worked well in the air and on the ground, in fact the BAF believe it works better than the original radio system supplied with the aircraft! As a result all the Mi-17s have been fitted with the Magisters&#8217; Collins radio.

Another example of the engineer&#8217;s fine work came after the F-7BGs had been delivered in 2006. Although the new Chinese fighters had been delivered with the Chinese TK-11 helmet, the BAF pilots preferred the US made HGU-55/P. When a Chinese specialist was requested to carry out the necessary modification to the unserviceable HGU-55, the BAF were told it was not possible, because of a lack of any proper interface between the radio and the helmet. Undeterred, BAF engineers then studied both items along with their circuit boards and found that if the earphone connection of the US helmet could be modified and the earphone and microphone replaced, then the systems would work. The work was carried out and all F-7BG pilots are flying with their much preferred but modified helmet, which until then had been unserviceable.

Air Marshal Ziaur Rahman wants BAF personnel to be multi-skilled because he believes that the BAF needs around 17,000 serving personnel, but if they can multi-task then 11,000 could be sufficient.

Some BAF officers, around 10-12 (although not pilots), are deputised into the Rapid Action Battalion (RAB), although this is only for a limited period (maximum two years), so that their careers are not affected. Under a government mandate, 60% of RAB personnel come from the police, with the remaining 40% are taken from the Armed Forces (Air Force, Army and Navy). Despite all the odds, BAF personnel have overcome the hardships of running an air force on a tight budget. All the people I met were passionate about their country &#8211; which serves the BAF well &#8211; from the COAS, who in 1971 fought as a freedom fighter, right down to the lowest ranking NCO. Such emotions are often hard to find in an age in which money means everything.

Flt Lt Saiful Azam &#8211; Bengali Fighter Ace
Flt Lt Saiful Azam&#8217;s official Pakistan Air Force picture. Flt Lt Saiful Azlam served with the Pakistan, Royal Jordanian and Iraqi air forces. During that time he shot down five aircraft and was awarded three medals .PAF.

Flt Lt Saiful Azam was an ace fighter pilot who fought for three different countries during three different wars and emerged as the only fighter pilot in the world who has been awarded a state medal by three different countries &#8211; Pakistan (Sitara-i-Jurat, 1965 War), Jordan (Husame Isteqlal, 1967 Arab-Israeli War) and Iraq (Noth-es-Shuja, 1967 Arab-Israeli War).

During the September 1965 India-Pak War, Azam was flying F-86 Sabres with 17 Squadron from PAF Base Sargodha. On September 19, 1965, after successfully executing a ground attack strike, his four-ship formation led by Sqn Ldr Azim Daudpota was &#8216;bounced&#8217; by Indian Air Force Gnats. In the ensuing fight, Azam shot down one of the two attackers, a Folland Gnat, and let the other aircraft go after sensing it had surrendered.

The pilot of the Gnat, Flying Officer V. Mayadev ejected safely to become a POW.

In November 1966, he was deputised, along with another PAF pilot, Flt Lt Sarwar Shad, to fly Hunters with the Royal Jordanian Air Force, when the 1967 Arab-Israeli War broke out. On June 5, 1967, while flying from al Mafraq, he shot down two Israeli Mystere IVs, distinguishing his abilities in the air.

Two days later, on June 7, 1967, after being seconded to the Iraqi Air Force, the Israelis struck H-3, an airfield in western Iraq where he was based. This time, flying an Iraqi Hunter, he downed a Mirage III and later a Vautour bomber. He was so close to the Vautour when he shot at it, bits from the aircraft were embedded in his Hunter. Many of the Iraqi aircrew at his base, when he returned, believed he had rammed the aircraft!

BAF Heroes
In 1969, Sergeant Zahurul Haque was a Ground Combat Instructor (GCI) with the PAF when he was accused of being involved in a plot renowned as the &#8216;Argatala Conspiracy&#8217; and following prolonged torture succumbed to his injuries. The BAF has recognised his great contribution to the subsequent liberation of Bangladesh and has named the base at Chittagong after him.

Flt Lt Matiur Rahman was a PAF flying instructor, when he tricked his way into the cockpit of a T-33 being flown by Pilot Officer Rashid Minhas. He intended to fly the aircraft to India, however a struggle ensued in the cockpit and led to the aircraft crashing at Thatta, a few miles from the Indian border.

The heroic attempt to get a much-needed aircraft to East Pakistan (as it was then) has been recognised by the BAF and the nation in awarding him the state&#8217;s highest medal &#8211; &#8216;Beershrestha&#8217;. Today the officers&#8217; training base at Jessore has been named BAF Base Matiur Rahman in his honour.

Sqn Ldr Khademul Bashar was a Squadron Leader with the BAF during the 1971 War and served as a Section Commander. He later became Air Vice Marshal and Chief of Air Staff (COAS) and eventually saw the BAF air base in Dhaka, named as Bashar in his memory.

BAF Inventory
Aero L-39ZA mid-80s Advanced Jet Training 
Antonov An-32 1989 Medium range transport
Bell 206L Long
Ranger mid-70s Helicopter Flying Training
Bell 212 1976-77 Light to Medium Lift transport
Cessna T-37B 1995 Basic Flying Training/Multi-engine
Chengdu FT-7MB/
F-7MB 1990 Air Defence/Ground Attack
Chengdu FT-7BG/
F-7BG 2006 Air Defence/Ground Attack
Lockheed C-130B
Hercules 2001 Long range transport
MiG-29 1999 Air Defence/Ground Attack/Recce
Mi-17 Hip (all variants) 1995- 2007 Medium Lift transport
Nanchang A-5III late-80s Ground Attack/Close Air Support
Nanchang PT-6 1979 Primary Flying Training
Shenyang FT-6 late-80s A-5 Trainer

AFM

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## mil-avia

*F-7BG and FT-7BG fighter aircrafts in Baidu*


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## M.H.J.

According to some sources, BD has sent 4 high-level officials from defense ministries, foreign affairs, economic relations division and the ministry of commerce to Russia to finalize a deal for buying aircraft and helos under supplier credits. Apparently, this $850 million dollar credit is largest of its kind for defense procurement in BD's history. This is the 3rd round of negotiation that will be carried out in Moscow and hope fully a complete details of the deal will be disclosed soon.



- MHJ ...

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## kobiraaz



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## Rokto14

When did BAF gt F 16s? i saw a video in youtube stating BAF has F 16s...


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## Zabaniyah

No F-16s. Ever

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## Rokto14

BAF requesting US for C 130E...


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## alaungphaya

Isn't it about time to put those old MiG-21's out to stud? They were designed 70 years ago.


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## kobiraaz

alaungphaya said:


> Isn't it about time to put those old MiG-21's out to stud? They were designed 70 years ago.


Do we need really need gun to kill mosquitoes??? Yes you guessed it write. Our military planners think Mig21 is good enough against ............ ! They recently ordered more Mig 21 for new Coxbazar base...... !

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## Avisheik

*BAF course certificate award ceremony held*


The certificate award ceremony of No. 90 Junior Command and Staff Course of Bangladesh Air Force was held at BAF Command and Staff Training Institute (CSTI) at Dhaka Cantonment on Thursday.

Assistant Chief of Air Staff (Operations & Training) Air Vice Marshal Abu Esrar attended the ceremony as the chief guest and distributed certificates among the graduating officers.

Ten officers from Bangladesh Air Force and one officer each from Indian Air Force, Sri Lankan Air Force and Malaysian Air Force attended the course, said an ISPR release.

Squadron Leader Shaikh Ferdous Mahmud of Bangladesh Air Force was awarded the ï¿½Chief of Air Staffï¿½s Trophyï¿½ for his best performance in the course.

Addressing the student-officers on the occasion, Air Vice Marshal Abu Esrar said the Command and Staff functions in any Air Force around the world are most delicate and different ï¿½ often demanding high-end planning, precision, coordi-nation and preparation. As an Air Staff or Commander, you will be challenged to your limits.

Therefore, it is absolutely essential to attain high level of competence for which you need to be effectively trained to meet those challenges squarely, he added.

Earlier, in the welcome address, the Officer Commanding of the institute Group Captain Kh Sazzadur Rahim gave a brief resume of the course curriculum.

Among others, Indian Assistant Defence Attachï¿½ Squadron Leader H S Sidhu, Sri Lankan High Commi-ssioner WA Sarath Kumar Weraguda, Second Secretary of Malaysian High - Ahmed Fikri and senior BAF Officers were present on the occasion

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## M.H.J.

Today is 94th birth anniversary of supreme commander our liberation forces " General M.A.G Osmany " ...







Salute !







M. A. G. Osmani

Muhammad Ataul Gani Osmani, better known as General M.A.G. Osmani (1 September, 1918 16 February,1984), the Supreme Commander of the Mukti Bahini and Bangladesh Armed Forces during the Bangladesh Liberation War.






Legal name, Full name : "Muhammad Ataul Gani Osmani"
Born &#9654; 1918, September 1918, September 1st 1918, Asia, Bangladesh.
Died &#9654; 1984, February 1984, February 16th 1984, the United Kingdom, London.
Wikipedia Page : M. A. G. Osmani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fights for : Pakistan, Bangladesh
Involved in : Bangladesh Liberation War, Indo-Pakistani War of 1947
Commander in : Bangladesh Liberation War, Operation Searchlight, Operation Barisal, Operation Jackpot
Gender : Male
Nationality : Bangladeshi
Educated : Aligarh Muslim University
Last Name : "Osmani"
First Name : "Muhammad"
Age at Death : 65 years, 5 months and 15 days old
Class : Person, General, Virgo person, serviceman
Did : Die (1984)
Born During : 1910s
Died During : 1980s
Related Websites : http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=52677, http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/O_0047.html
Freebase ID : "/guid/9202a8c04000641f800000000067f743"
DBPedia URI : http://dbpedia.org/resource/M._A._G._Osmani
Rare Terms : "General Osmani", "Mohammad Ataul Ghani Osmany", "Muhammad Ataul Ghani Osmany", "Muhammad Ataul Gani Osmani" .
Middle-name : "Gani", "Ataul" .
Birthday : The 1st of September. 





- MHJ ...


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## boltu



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## SBD-3

BAF officer and J-10.....

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## bigbossman

nice pic of baf mig29


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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force c-130





Bangladesh Air Force f-7, c-130

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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force mig-29





Bangladesh Air Force a-5 fantan





Bangladesh Air Force 





Bangladesh Air Force SAM

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## bigbossman



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## bigbossman



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## kobiraaz



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## Major Shaheb

kobiraaz said:


>



I have a doubt that F-7BGI is capable enough to replace these super-capable (in its class) deep penetration attack aircraft. These are legends. Even PLAAF has not found any suitable replacement for these.


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## eastwatch

Major Shaheb said:


> I have a doubt that F-7BGI is capable enough to replace these super-capable (in its class) deep penetration attack aircraft. These are legends. Even PLAAF has not found any suitable replacement for these.



F-7 is not a multi-role deep penetration plane like Mig-29. It is basically a bomber with functions also of a fighter. I have heard that BGI is F-7 only in name. Its design is completely different. If it is true then there is reason to believe that BAF is deceiving its neighbours. However, even if it is a normal BGI without a deep penetration capability BGIs from Cox's Bazaar base will certainly be able to bomb nearby targets in Sittwe and other military assets of Burma.

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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> F-7 is not a multi-role deep penetration plane like Mig-29. It is basically a bomber with functions also of a fighter. I have heard that BGI is F-7 only in name. Its design is completely different. If it is true then there is reason to believe that BAF is deceiving its neighbours. However, even if it is a normal BGI without a deep penetration capability BGIs from Cox's Bazaar base will certainly be able to bomb nearby targets in Sittwe and other military assets of Burma.



The MiG-29SE variant cannot hit ground targets. 

The BGI is likely to be for close-air-support role like A-5 is. And yes, the A-5s would be replaced. They are getting old.

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## cirr

New F-7BGIs soon on their way from China to Bangladesh&#65306;

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## kobiraaz

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? similar to f-7Bg! no change!!


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## boltu

The color scheme is soothing to the eyes,and i really liked the thundercat insignia.Looks like a beautiful little aircraft


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## Varunastra

all other countries are in the process of retiring their MIG-21's and F-7's and BDAF is inducting new one's......is this a good decision considering how old the fighter is???

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## boltu

kobiraaz said:


> WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? similar to f-7Bg! no change!!


I suspected earlier there wouldn't be any physical difference between the two.Whatever,its time for some real deal with China.I hope China will give us J-10 when Khaleda Zia comes to power after next election.

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## kobiraaz

BG - 






BGI

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## Avisheik

kobiraaz said:


> WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? similar to f-7Bg! no change!!



I expected the nose to be different cos of the BVR. Is this BGI even equipped with BVR?? It doest look so to me.


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## Avisheik

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> all other countries are in the process of retiring their MIG-21's and F-7's and BDAF is inducting new one's......is this a good decision considering how old the fighter is???



It is rather the function of the aircraft. F7 is our interceptors to intercept enemy planes. If i am not wrong india, pakistan and china also uses a lot of interceptors. Our interceptors are aging and are limited in number, so bought a few more.

Since our Military is defence based, we have interceptors to guard our skies. We want to go for multi role aircrafts but since we are a poor country, we are using the F7s as stop gap before buying new fighter jets

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## Inception-06

What are the main differences between the Bangladeshi J-7BG and Pakistan J-7P and J-PG ?

How is the relation from Bangladesh Army-Air Force to Pakistani Military ? ( sorry for wrong topic)


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## eastwatch

I am a little disappointed after seeing the new F-7BGI pictures. I was expecting a new shape. However, I hope, this plane is fitted with stronger engines that can give it higher speed, better manuevering, shorter climbing time and are more equipped with precision guided (?) bombing devices. Can Chinese Dragon post the specifications of BGI?

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## Varunastra

cam f-7 bgi fire bvr missiles??


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## M.H.J.

F-7MB , F-7BG , F-7BGI ...




"

* 10 F-7MB remains operational of a total of 12 F-7MB and 4 FT-7MB delivered in early 1990. All F-7MB are scheduled to be retired from active duty from 2014.

* 12 F-7BG with 4 FT-7BG received in early 2006. F-7BG is better than MiG-21Bison and similar variant to F-7PG.

* 16 stop-gap F-7BGI to be delivered by 2012 which shall eventually retire F-7MB and A-5III from active duty starting from 2014.
Chengdu F-7BGI is the most advanced & latest variant of F-7 family and to be delivered in 2012. These aircraft are of new variant are equipped with advanced avionics shall include HOTAS Contol, three MFD display and HUD. The aircraft shall also be equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. 






F-7 Family of BAF ...





- MHJ ...

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## Avisheik

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> cam f-7 bgi fire bvr missiles??



Well some rumours say that it is BVR capable others say it is not. But we will have to wait for official release of the specs.


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## mb444

They look rubbish... Stopgap does not mean buy the same when everyone else is moving ahead. Maybe functionally they are better but I am disheartened by these pictures.

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## Avisheik

mb444 said:


> They look rubbish... Stopgap does not mean buy the same when everyone else is moving ahead. Maybe functionally they are better but I am disheartened by these pictures.



Looks doesnt really matter what matters is their capability. I know these aircrafts are 3rd gen but its the best we could buy with our limited budget. 

Buying the same aircraft will save us from spending too much on adapting to a new platform of interceptor aircrafts. Anyway dont be disheartened. We are buying YAK 130, which is used for training 4+ gen fighters. So we will get them in the near future

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## emotionless_teenage

Major Shaheb said:


> I have a doubt that F-7BGI is capable enough to replace these super-capable (in its class) deep penetration attack aircraft. These are legends. Even PLAAF has not found any suitable replacement for these.



that's because PLAAF does not seek another ground attack aircraft.since their Su-30MKK and J-10 could also do the job(being a multirole aircraft)



mb444 said:


> They look rubbish... Stopgap does not mean buy the same when everyone else is moving ahead. Maybe functionally they are better but I am disheartened by these pictures.



The new F-7 will replace the older one(which will be phased out in the near future).so at least the air force does not lose quantitatively.newer F-7 would also means better all round performance than previous F-7 version and would cost less to maintain as well(less airframe and engine fatigue,safer,etc). bonus point is that the logistics department already know how to maintain F-7 so there would be less issue do deal.

a Hi-Lo mix of MiG-29SMT and new F-7 would be more than capable to perform tactical air interdiction.

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## Asif8371

I recently read a piece of article, where BAF confirmed the purchase of 16 F-7BGIs fitted with precision guided missiles system from China. Nevertheless, aren't the F-7 a bit obsolete? Even after being fitted with PGM cause, this won't actually make them anymore edgile or faster in future standoff. Now I know that Bangladesh doesn't have any sorts of threats from any of its immediate neighbors but there is enough evidence that shows that Asia as a whole is getting into an arms race, with China and India leading the pack, apparently even Myanmar is moving towards big purchases. This is a country with whom Bangladesh had a standoff not so long ago and as air superiority is a major factor in terms of overcoming any confrontation, I was wondering what our BAF has up its sleeves in case of an all out conflict with Myanmar. Moreover what is the current state of our air defence, radars and anti aircraft hardware?? Also is there any confirmed news about the purchase of 4 or 4+ generation fighters addition into the BAF??


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## Zabaniyah

cirr said:


> New F-7BGIs soon on their way from China to Bangladesh&#65306;



Oh boy...so much for all the huff and puff over that "nose" thingy  

Nice paint job though...



UDAYCAMPUS said:


> all other countries are in the process of retiring their MIG-21's and F-7's and BDAF is inducting new one's......is this a good decision considering how old the fighter is???



For Bangladeshi politicians, this baby is like the F-22 Raptor to them  

It's just that Bangladesh doesn't have a budget large enough to procure a sufficient fleet of modern 4+ generation fighters. 

It's a $130+ billion economy (not including the shadow economy) with a population of over 150 million (and growing) after all. 

Naval and air force matters are expensive to begin with. It's simply not for everybody.

Though, I agree with emotionless teen, BAF would do well with a hi-lo mix of updated F-7s and MiG-29SMTs.

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## Zabaniyah

Asif8371 said:


> I recently read a piece of article, where BAF confirmed the purchase of 16 F-7BGIs fitted with precision guided missiles system from China. Nevertheless, aren't the F-7 a bit obsolete?



I think having GPS bombing capability is pretty impressive for such an old platform. The Chinese aviation industry has indeed come a long way. 



Asif8371 said:


> Even after being fitted with PGM cause, this won't actually make them anymore edgile or faster in future standoff. Now I know that Bangladesh doesn't have any sorts of threats from any of its immediate neighbors but there is enough evidence that shows that Asia as a whole is getting into an arms race, with China and India leading the pack, apparently even Myanmar is moving towards big purchases. This is a country with whom Bangladesh had a standoff not so long ago and as air superiority is a major factor in terms of overcoming any confrontation, I was wondering what our BAF has up its sleeves in case of an all out conflict with Myanmar. Moreover what is the current state of our air defence, radars and anti aircraft hardware?? Also is there any confirmed news about the purchase of 4 or 4+ generation fighters addition into the BAF??



Myanmar's air force is questionable despite all the Wikipedia fan claims. But then, the risk of military conflict with Myanmar is low at the moment - unless their leaders are stupid. 

The way to deal with Myanmar is through trade, with China acting as a leverage for us. That country has very high unemployment. Increasing trade will soften their attitudes towards Bangladesh (with whom they have hostile feelings for mysterious reasons). 

If the Burmese do attack any neighboring country, be it Bangladesh, Thailand or anyone, the consequences would be severe. 

As what has been said previously, BAF would have to use a hi-lo combo for its aircraft. It can never afford a large fleet of advanced aircraft due to its budget. 

And news like "we are getting 80 Flankers!" are all dumb and unverified sources. 

As for air defense, BAF is working on a five-tier air defense system. Much of it likely to be procured from China. There is now FM-90 (confirmed). There are rumors of LY-60 and H-20 - speculations for now.

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## Porbot

Is it true that bangladesh is in a process to make a fighter jet (not commercial plane) with the help of 
China and it's based on F-7?


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## kobiraaz

The best defence bangladesh had against Myanmar was international diplomacy and friends!! But now as we know USA even started military practise with Myanmar- We are alone!! we need to bring change in our military procurement policy!!


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## Avisheik

Porbot said:


> Is it true that bangladesh is in a process to make a fighter jet (not commercial plane) with the help of
> China and it's based on F-7?



Nope not true. But there are plans to build a light aircraft for the military by 2021.


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## eastwatch

With the induction of new F-7BGI, BAF will be stronger than it is now, because these new planes will be replacing the old A-5 planes. Note one thing, F-7 (Mig-21) is the only plane in the world that is still surviving in many airforces after first introduced in the 50's. 

BGI is a high speed Mach 2.0 aircraft with BVR AAM, Lesser Guided Bomb (LGB), and excellent performance for a tiny friendship price. It has also much higher rate of climbing per second than the JF-17 of China-Pakistan collaboration which the Pakistanis try to promote. Its speed is also higher than JF (Mach 1.8).

We have to understand a few basics. There are limits to the function of an airforce plane. So, a Bomber is not really a fighter plane and vice versa although both can reverse their function when needed. F-7BGI is more a bomber than it is a fighter. 

When this bomber enters the air space of an enemy country to bomb that country's vital assets it is certainly accompanied by fighters like Mig-29 because the enemy fighter planes will scramble up the sky to kill the Bomber. The two groups of Fighter planes will engage each other in the dog fight and in the meantime the Bomber will drop its bombs.

The F-7BGIs have been bought by the BAF because it is ideally suited for a short distance bombing role, whereby Myanmar is the main adversary. We must also trust our military people. They won't purchase something that they will find unsuitable for a mission. Military purchases are not decided by the civilian govts because they don't know the difference between a screw and a nail.


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## PlanetSoldier

eastwatch said:


> With the induction of new F-7BGI, BAF will be stronger than it is now, because these new planes will be replacing the old A-5 planes. Note one thing, F-7 (Mig-21) is the only plane in the world that is still surviving in many airforces after first introduced in the 50's.
> 
> BGI is a high speed Mach 2.0 aircraft with BVR AAM, Lesser Guided Bomb (LGB), and excellent performance for a tiny friendship price. It has also much higher rate of climbing per second than the JF-17 of China-Pakistan collaboration which the Pakistanis try to promote. Its speed is also higher than JF (Mach 1.8).
> 
> We have to understand a few basics. There are limits to the function of an airforce plane. So, a Bomber is not really a fighter plane and vice versa although both can reverse their function when needed. F-7BGI is more a bomber than it is a fighter.
> 
> When this bomber enters the air space of an enemy country to bomb that country's vital assets it is certainly accompanied by fighters like Mig-29 because the enemy fighter planes will scramble up the sky to kill the Bomber. The two groups of Fighter planes will engage each other in the dog fight and in the meantime the Bomber will drop its bombs.
> 
> The F-7BGIs have been bought by the BAF because it is ideally suited for a short distance bombing role, whereby Myanmar is the main adversary. We must also trust our military people. They won't purchase something that they will find unsuitable for a mission. *Military purchases are not decided by the civilian govts because they don't know the difference between a screw and a nail.*



While the equipments are influenced by military personnel, defence purchases in BD are always corrupt by our politicians...don't forget Hasina's dirty hand in Ulsan class frigate and Mig-29s. Besides, every govt. has some politician retired from armed forces who take part in the decision of equipments. Current planning minister some Khandaker a retired air force officer has such role in military procuremnt.


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## manofwar

PlanetSoldier said:


> While the equipments are influenced by military personnel, defence purchases in BD are always corrupt by our politicians...don't forget Hasina's dirty hand in Ulsan class frigate and Mig-29s. Besides, every govt. has some politician retired from armed forces who take part in the decision of equipments. Current planning minister some Khandaker a retired air force officer has such role in military procuremnt.


Bit off-topic, but can you tell why is that all the BD members at PDF consider most, if not all politicians extremely corrupt and Indian puppets?? My intention was not to troll but to know the reasons why this is said so, and provide counter argument if needed.


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## james5

Bangladesh air force is much stronger as compare to the past of years ago.


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## jahidus2005

james5 said:


> Bangladesh air force is much stronger as compare to the past of years ago.




nah bro i really dont think so , but i believe bangladesh has one of the intelligent army in the world , but what they dont have is air defence system or 4+ generation aircraft what makes any army more stronger , but in future if bangladesh can get s300 or s400 air defence system it will be enough for bangladesh army against any enemy's threat , bcz ground fight i strongly believe bd armys are pretty strong

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## eastwatch

PlanetSoldier said:


> While the equipments are influenced by military personnel, defence purchases in BD are always corrupt by our politicians...don't forget Hasina's dirty hand in Ulsan class frigate and Mig-29s. Besides, every govt. has some politician retired from armed forces who take part in the decision of equipments. Current planning minister some Khandaker a retired air force officer has such role in military procuremnt.



So, you are implying that because BAF has decided to purchase INFERIOR BGI planes, therefore, Planning Minister has received a big kickback from China. Someone should respond to your pondering, but I cannot, because I have no knowledge about previous and present bribe takings. I wonder, if corruption or rumours of corruption should be a matter of discussion in this thread. Can we not talk about things rationally? 

As far as I know the civilian govt in BD has very limited power to impose its purchasing wish on the military. The purchases are all according to the requirements set by the military.


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## Asif8371

kobiraaz said:


> The best defence bangladesh had against Myanmar was international diplomacy and friends!! But now as we know USA even started military practise with Myanmar- We are alone!! we need to bring change in our military procurement policy!!



It's all part of the US encircling plan aimed to contain China's growing influence in the region, even then Myanmar wouldn't dare take US for granted over China, as the Chinese are the major arms suppliers as well as the most biggest contributer to Myanmar's economy. A more warm diplomatic ties with Beijing would would grant Bangladesh surety to some extent over a possible BD-Myanmar conflict... Moreover if I'm not wrong, Myanmar's armed forces does not have the capability to fight outside its boundaries whereas we do  so no worries brother, for the near future...


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## Porbot

Abhishek what will will those be used for, the ones, light aircrafts?


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## Avisheik

Porbot said:


> Abhishek what will will those be used for, the ones, light aircrafts?



My guess is that they will make turboprop and most probably it will be used as a basic trainer.


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## eastwatch

Zabaniya said:


> It's just that Bangladesh doesn't have a budget large enough to procure a sufficient fleet of modern 4+ generation fighters. It's a $130+ billion economy (not including the shadow economy) with a population of over 150 million (and growing) after all.



It is not probably the short budget because both Russia and China are selling goods under credits. Issue is the availability of trained pilots for 4.5 gen. In order to train pilots BAF has purchased 16 units of YAK-130 training planes under the Russian credit of $850million to train pilots the modern 4.5+ generation planes.

So, it is immature to say (not you, but as some others say) BAF has made a grave mistake by not purchasing 4.5+ gen planes. The link you have sent somewhere in some thread is very nformative, indeed. BGI is an improved version of any other previous version of F-7. It has more avionics than them, and it has seven hard points instead of five.


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## Gyp 111

BAF

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## bigbossman



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## bigbossman



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## Rokto14

mb444 said:


> They look rubbish... Stopgap does not mean buy the same when everyone else is moving ahead. Maybe functionally they are better but I am disheartened by these pictures.


I agree on what you said. even if we have a smaller budget, we should start to buy better aircrafts but maybe lesser quantity.


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## Rokto14

bigbossman said:


>


oh wow, let me see, the forth photo shows 3 fantan A5, a biman bangladesh B737-800,B777-300ER,A310-300



bigbossman said:


>


Is this BAF Yak 130?


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## Avisheik

Rokto14 said:


> oh wow, let me see, the forth photo shows 3 fantan A5, a biman bangladesh B737-800,B777-300ER,A310-300
> 
> 
> Is this BAF Yak 130?




No, its aero L 39.

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## kobiraaz

Avisheik said:


> No, its aero L 39.



Asssad used aero L39 for ground attack! How did that go??


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## boltu

kobiraaz said:


> Asssad used aero L39 for ground attack! How did that go??


One L39 was shot down by the rebels.I saw that in a video clip.

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## bigbossman



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## bigbossman



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## bigbossman



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## Porbot

Bhais, amra kobe F-7BGI pacchi? Ar Mig-29 othoba Su-30 er khobor kee? ....

Khleda Zia next term a ashle kee amra J-10 kinbo?


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## mb444

Porbot, 

Your guess would be as good as anyone here..... BD military planners if they indeed have a plan seems to keep it very close to their chest.


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## Avisheik

Porbot said:


> Bhais, amra kobe F-7BGI pacchi? Ar Mig-29 othoba Su-30 er khobor kee? ....
> 
> Khleda Zia next term a ashle kee amra J-10 kinbo?



We are getting the f 7 early next year. Mig ebong Sukhoi-er khobor ekhono kagoge/internete chappe nai, tai kichhu bolte parchi na. 

Amar mone hoy na je amra j-10 kinte parbo. BAF sukhoi othoba Mig kinte chachhe. Dutoi 4th gen fighter, ekon jodi amra ar ekta 4th gen fighter kinee, tahole onek taka khoroch hobe notun platform-ta adapt korte.


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## mb444

> Bangladesh wants to buy Russias Yak-130 aircraft
> 
> Tags: Russia, Business, News, World, Yak-130 , aircraft, aircraft industry
> *
> Nov 15, 2012 13:31 Moscow Time
> 
> 
> Photo: EPA
> Bangladeshs air forces are interested in buying Russias jet trainer/light attack aircraft Yak-130, Sergey Kornev, a representative of the Rosoboronexport (Russias state intermediary agency for exports/imports of defense-related products) said Thursday.
> He was speaking at the China Airshow 2012 which is underway in the Chinese city of Zhuhai.
> 
> Kornev added that Russia will grant a loan to Bangladesh to buy 12 Yak-130 planes and Su-27 jet fighters. He did not mention the sum of the loan.
> 
> As far as I know the loan has been approved. Within its amount Bangladesh can choose the number of planes it will buy and their modifications, he said.
> 
> Voice of Russia, RIA
> 
> 
> Bangladesh wants to buy Russia




So things are taking shape in the background..... Good going BAF .... Quickly finalise this deal... How much do the YAKs cost folks? How many SU27s will we be able to afford ..... The size of the loan is $850m.

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## Avisheik

Thats like the most confirmed news about the 4th gen planes we are getting.

So su 27 it is. Given the loan is $850million. I think around 1 squadron of planes will be bought(12 planes)


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

Avisheik said:


> Thats like the most confirmed news about the 4th gen planes we are getting.
> 
> So su 27 it is. Given the loan is $850million. I think around 1 squadron of planes will be bought(12 planes)



Oh my ... So now Russians are giving loans to BD to buy their plane. This makes me seriously doubt the performance and capability of the plane. I mean why a country will give you money to buy their stuff. ?


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## Avisheik

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Oh my ... So now Russians are giving loans to BD to buy their plane. This makes me seriously doubt the performance and capability of the plane. I mean why a country will give you money to buy their stuff. ?



Cos they will get back more in the long run, due to interest.

Furthermore this deal is tied to rights to explore some of our gas fields as well as helping us run our first nuclear power station.

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## mil-avia

*Bangladesh wants to buy Russia&#8217;s Yak-130 & SU-27 !*


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## ebr77

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> Oh my ... So now Russians are giving loans to BD to buy their plane. This makes me seriously doubt the performance and capability of the plane. I mean why a country will give you money to buy their stuff. ?



think of it this way, this deal is a package, the nuclear power plant, the leasing of blocks in BoB, they want to make us happy.


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## Gyp 111

BAF Mig-29

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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force Mig-29





Bangladesh Air Force F-7 formation take off

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## Gyp 111

BAF Fouga CM-170R Magister






BAF Antonov AN-32











BAF Lockheed C-130B Hercules

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## Avisheik

*FCC certificate award ceremony held at base Zahurul Haque
*

The certificate award ceremony of 19th Fighter Conversion Course (FCC) of Bangladesh Air Force was held at Bangladesh Air Force Base Zahurul Haque, here today.

Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Muhammad Enamul Bari graced 
the occasion as the chief guest and gave away certificates to 08 
(eight) successful trainee fighter pilots.

Addressing to the trainee fighter pilots Chief of Air Staff 
said, "the skill and professionalism that you have acquired 
through the training in this course would be the foundation stone 
of your future career in operational squadron of BAF". 

He further said "My best wishes to you all and I believe 
that you all would stand firm and resolute in the face of call of 
duty.

Senior officers of the Bangladesh Air Force and invited 
dignitaries were present on the occasion.


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## cirr

26.11.2012&#65306;

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## eastwatch

Porbot said:


> Bhais, amra kobe F-7BGI pacchi? Ar Mig-29 othoba Su-30 er khobor kee? ....
> 
> Khleda Zia next term a ashle kee amra J-10 kinbo?



Begum Khaleda Zia was a two (three) times Prime Minister of Bangladesh for a total of over ten years. Can you or some one send us a list what kind or number of planes, tanks, ships or any other heavy weapons did she buy in those long years? I would like to know about the purchases to challenge Awami Leaguers here who claim she did not buy any important weapons.


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## bdslph

cirr said:


> 26.11.2012&#65306;



are those pics are F7BG1


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## dee

BAF to HAL DHRUV KINTE PARE................


HAL Dhruv - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Gyp 111

BAF Mil Mi-8











BAF Mil Mi-17V5 Hip H

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## Gyp 111

BAF FT-7B

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## Avisheik

dee said:


> BAF to HAL DHRUV KINTE PARE................
> 
> 
> HAL Dhruv - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



HAL Dhruv no doubt is one of the better equipment built by India. 

However Bangladesh doesn't really buy weapons from india. Furthermore Bangladesh only buys mid lift or light helicopters. Utility helicopters(like HAL Dhruv) are quite rare in our military(we only have 2)


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## SBD-3

More Pics of F-7BGIs at Chengdu

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## sylheti-soldier

Somebody have removed my name from pic of 4 F-7BG. That pic ws posted my me in DPB.


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## sylheti-soldier

F-7BGI is looking smart.... Isnt it?


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## razgriz19



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## Arko

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200181644488114

Hope you guys can see the video .... my IDM isn't working  ..... could not download it 

What fighter are these ??? .... A-5 ??? they really need replacement .... look at the joysticks .... pretty worn out :/


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## Invincible_at_Sea

Arko said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200181644488114
> 
> Hope you guys can see the video .... my IDM isn't working  ..... could not download it
> 
> What fighter are these ??? .... A-5 ??? they really need replacement .... look at the joysticks .... pretty worn out :/



These are L-39 Albatros and they are flying over my ever known Karnaphuli River.


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## animelive

Arko said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200181644488114
> 
> Hope you guys can see the video .... my IDM isn't working  ..... could not download it
> 
> What fighter are these ??? .... A-5 ??? they really need replacement .... look at the joysticks .... pretty worn out :/



Beautiful video


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## Zabaniyah

©Selim Azad
Distributed by Defense Power of Bangladesh.

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## Gyp 111

F-7 MB & F-7 BG

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## Gyp 111

Mil Mi-17

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## Zabaniyah



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## Zabaniyah

They've arrived  




Credits: MD Tanveer Yasser.
Image distributed by Bangladesh Air Force fan page.

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## animelive

Loki said:


> They've arrived
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Credits: MD Tanveer Yasser.
> Image distributed by Bangladesh Air Force fan page.



weren't they blue?


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## Zabaniyah

animelive said:


> weren't they blue?



The earlier BG variants are blue, and belong to a different squadron. 

The recently acquired BGI are grey color in line with the Thunder Cats squadron.

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## Zabaniyah

Credits: Sarwar Roman
Distributed by: Bangladesh Air Force B.A.F

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## DarkPrince

Loki said:


> ©Selim Azad
> Distributed by Defense Power of Bangladesh.



cool pic

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## monitor

*Inside cockpit *




*YAK-130 advance jet trainer with weapons*

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## Rokto14

monitor said:


> *Inside cockpit *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *YAK-130 advance jet trainer with weapons*


YAK 130 is in bangladesh now already?


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## Anubis

Rokto14 said:


> YAK 130 is in bangladesh now already?



They haven't arrived yet!


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## animelive

RiasatKhan said:


> They haven't arrived yet!



we didn't even sign the deal yet, did we?


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## Anubis

animelive said:


> we didn't even sign the deal yet, did we?



I think not....is the $500mil Nuclear deal a part of the $800mil or are they separate?If they are together then we will sign it this month!
Bangladesh-Russia $500m N-power deal next month


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## eastwatch

RiasatKhan said:


> I think not....is the $500mil Nuclear deal a part of the $800mil or are they separate?If they are together then we will sign it this month!
> Bangladesh-Russia $500m N-power deal next month



1) The $500 million is a credit deal under which Rusiia is to establish a 2000 mW atomic power plant with two reactors at the same site in Rooppur.

2) The $850 million line of credit is for military purchase from Russia under which BAF has already ordered or are purchasing 10 to 16 units of YAK-130 training planes. Other purchases are under the process of being finalized. There could be one or two sqs of Sukhoi-27 planes under this credit line.

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## Gyp 111

Flypast of victory day, 2012.

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## Porbot

What is the difference between Sukhoi 30 and Sukhoi 27


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## Rokto14

Porbot said:


> What is the difference between Sukhoi 30 and Sukhoi 27



*Sukhoi 27*
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 21.9 m (72 ft)
Wingspan: 14.7 m (48 ft 3 in)
Height: 5.92 m (19 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 62 m² (667 ft²)
Empty weight: 16,380 kg (36,100 lb)
Loaded weight: 23,430 kg (51,650 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 30,450 kg (67,100 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Saturn/Lyulka AL-31F turbofans
Dry thrust: 7,670 kgf (75.22 kN, 16,910 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 12,500 kgf (122.6 kN, 27,560 lbf) each
Leading edge sweep: 42°
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.35 (2,500 km/h, 1,550 mph) at altitude
Range: 3,530 km (2,070 mi) at altitude; (1,340 km / 800 mi at sea level)
Service ceiling: 19,000 m (62,523 ft)
Rate of climb: 300 m/s[51] (54,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 371 kg/m² (76 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 1.07
Armament
1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
8,000 kg (17,600 lb) on 10 external pylons
Up to 6 × medium-range AA missiles R-27, 2 × short-range heat-seeking AA missiles R-73
[edit]Su-27S armament
30 mm GSH-30 Cannon, 150 rounds
6 × Medium-Range R-27R, R-27ER, R-27T, R-27ET
4 × Short-Range R-73E
FAB-250
FAB-500
RBK-250
RBK-500
S-8
S-13
S-24
S-25
[edit]Su-27SM armament
6 x Vympel R-77 advanced medium-range missile
4 x KAB-500KR and KAB-500L Guided Bombs
4 x Kh-29
4 x Kh-31
10 x Kh-35

*Sukhoi 30*
General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 21.935 m (72.97 ft)
Wingspan: 14.7 m (48.2 ft)
Height: 6.36 m (20.85 ft)
Wing area: 62.0 m2 (667 ft2)
Empty weight: 17,700 kg (39,021 lb)
Loaded weight: 24,900 kg (54,900 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 34,500 kg (76,060 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × AL-31FL low-bypass turbofans
Dry thrust: 7,600 kgf (74.5 kN, 16,750 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 12,500 kgf (122.58 kN, 27,560 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.0 (2,120 km/h, 1,320 mph)
Range: 3,000 km (1,620 nmi) at altitude
Service ceiling: 17,300 m (56,800 ft)
Rate of climb: 230 m/s (45,275 ft/min)
Wing loading: 401 kg/m2 (82.3 lb/ft2)
Thrust/weight: 0.98
Armament
The Su-27PU had 8 hardpoints for its weapon load, whereas the Su-30MK's combat load is mounted on 12 hardpoints: 2 wingtip AAM launch rails, 3 pylons under each wing, 1 pylon under each engine nacelle, and 2 pylons in tandem in the "arch" between the engines. All versions can carry up to 8 tonnes of external stores.
Guns: 1 × GSh-30-1 gun (30 mm calibre, 150 rounds)
AAMs: 6 × R-27ER1 (AA-10C), 2 × R-27ET1 (AA-10D), 6 × R-73E (AA-11), 6 × R-77 RVV-AE (AA-12)
ASMs: 6 × Kh-31P/Kh-31A anti-radar missiles, 6 × Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles, 2 × Kh-59ME
Aerial bombs: 6 × KAB 500KR, 3 × KAB-1500KR, 8 × FAB-500T, 28 × OFAB-250-270, nuclear bombs

I am not sure if this is going to help you but I hope you can spot the differences

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## Flynn Swagmire

Sukhoi Su-27 is a *air supiriority fighter* and Sukhoi Su-30 is a *multi role fighter*. Which is better for us?

AND

MIG-29 is hard-expensive to maintain and operate, should we replace them?


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## monitor

*The Gamma DE AESA radar is extremely impressive. It can detect and track ballistic missiles, has high jamming immunity and is to be integrated with Bangladesh's Air Defence Network. It has a maximum range of 400 km (BAF ordered the best variant with longest range). Its per unit cost is $75 million making it one of the most expensive radars in the world but it is highly reliable and uses proven technology. It can be used with the S-300 and S-400 SAM so I think it might point towards BAFs intention to procure such platforms in the future.* source :bdmilitary face book

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## monitor

abushaleh said:


> Sukhoi Su-27 is a *air supiriority fighter* and Sukhoi Su-30 is a *multi role fighter*. Which is better for us?
> 
> AND
> 
> MIG-29 is hard-expensive to maintain and operate, should we replace them?



Both apply to them su-27 and su-30 both are air superiority multi role fighter but Su-30 is upgraded version of Su-27 
Su-30 probably would cost more to maintain as it would have more capability but we have to get the best . most of the countries are preferring Su-30 over Mig-29

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## Anubis




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## Gyp 111

BAF Mig-29

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## Gyp 111

BAF Mi-171 Sh

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## DURJOY

C-130 
bangladesh airforce

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## DURJOY



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## DURJOY

C-130 of bangladesh air forces in un peace keeping.

Photo courtesy:shahnoor shawon

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## DURJOY

Mig 29

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## DURJOY

Govt to buy 4 copters for disaster management, relief work
Shakhawat Hossain

The government is planning to procure four helicopters to be used in disaster management and relief operations, officials said.

The disaster management and relief ministry with the help of the defence ministry is now searching for the type of helicopter most suitable for the tasks. Most likely, Super Puma or Mil MI-17 will be selected, the officials said.

PT Dirgantara Indonesia Aerospace manufactures Super Puma under a licence from the Eurocopter Group based in Marignane, France. Mil MI-17 is manufactured by the Russian sate-run air transportation company Vertikal-T.

The current market price of a Super Puma or a Mil MI-17 helicopter is around $17 million.

The officials assess the financial involvement of the purchase will be to the tune of Tk 550 crore.

The Economic Relations Division has already been asked to negotiate with the Islamic Development Bank which has expressed its interest to provide credit on a low interest rate for purchasing the choppers, they said.

The defence ministry will lead the procurement, although the fund will come from the budget of the disaster management and relief ministry.

The country at present has no helicopter dedicated for disaster management and relief operations. The disaster management and relief ministry borrow choppers from the Bangladesh Air Force for carrying out its disaster management and relief activities during flooding and after cyclones.

Nowadays BAF helicopters are also used during fire incidents, the frequency of which has been on the rise in the capital and its suburbs as garment factories catch fires often because of a lack of fire safety arrangements.

The government initiated the move for purchasing choppers for disaster management and relief operations in early 2011. Several meetings of the stakeholders have already been organised by the defence ministry.

*A senior Armed Forced Division official told New Age that at a meeting held on January 8 BAF experts favoured procurement of Mil MI-17, one of the most used choppers globally. He said the air force was also using MI-17 helicopters.*

Dhaka recently signed a $1 billion credit deal with Moscow to purchase arms from state-run Russian companies. It is expected that MI-17 will be on that shopping list. The government is trying to obtain a soft loan from the IDB for buying the helicopters.






Meanwhile, representatives of the PT Dirgantara Indonesia Aerospace made a presentation on Super Puma at a BAF meeting on October 9 last year.

Officials concerned said* a certain section of the government, on the other hand, was in favour of signing a Super Puma purchase deal with the PT Dirgantara Indonesia Aerospace as it might facilitate getting the IDB loan.*

The government in December last procured two Bell-407 single-engine helicopters for the Rapid Action Battalion &#8211; for the first time for an agency other than the BAF &#8211; from the Bell Helicopter Asia (Pvt) Ltd for Tk 57 crore.Govt to buy 4 copters for disaster management, relief work

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## Gyp 111

BAF F-7BG






BAF F-7BG and A-5C with USAF F/A-18 Hornet

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## Invincible_at_Sea

Gyp 111 said:


> BAF F-7BG and A-5C with USAF F/A-18 Hornet



*That is Bangladesh Naval Academy Underneath the formation.*

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## animelive

COMBAN said:


> *That is Bangladesh Naval Academy Underneath the formation.*



why so small


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## Gyp 111

akash er upor theke choto lagtese vitore onek boro


animelive said:


> why so small


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## DURJOY



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## Gyp 111

BAF Mig-29

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## Rokto14

Gyp 111 said:


> BAF F-7BG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAF F-7BG and A-5C with USAF F/A-18 Hornet



What were the USAF F18 doing in Bangladesh?


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## Gyp 111

2007 ea USAF er sathe exercise er pic eita


Rokto14 said:


> What were the USAF F18 doing in Bangladesh?

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## animelive

BAF target drone

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## bigbossman



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## eastwatch

animelive said:


> BAF target drone



I may have a comprehension problem with the English language, so, can you tell me what really did you mean by "BAF target drone?"


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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> I may have a comprehension problem with the English language, so, can you tell me what really did you mean by "BAF target drone?"



It comes with the FM-90 package for target practice.

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## Avisheik

*BAF annual exercise concludes
*
A six-day annual exercise code named &#8220;Wintex-2013&#8221; of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) concluded on Monday, reports UNB.
The exercise started on February 6 at all BAF bases and lodger units across the country. 
The main objectives of the exercise were to assess and evaluate the operational capability of the Bangladesh Air Force and to identify the weaknesses to achieve further perfection. 
All types of BAF aircraft, helicopters, radar squa-drons were used in the exercise and involved personnel including repre-sentatives of Bangladesh Army, Bangladesh Navy, Civil Defence and BNCC (Air Wing) also participated in it.

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## Porbot

Why are we so quiet about the fighters? What happen to YAK-130? Will we ever get them or keep it for BNP to cancel the purchase? How about the sukhois? Any news? I mean why are we posting pictures? We all know how f-7 and mig-29 looks like and posting them I see not necessary. Please bring something important next time otherwise I request the moderators to delete those pictures and messages.


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## Zabaniyah

Porbot said:


> Why are we so quiet about the fighters? What happen to YAK-130? Will we ever get them or keep it for BNP to cancel the purchase? How about the sukhois? Any news? I mean why are we posting pictures? We all know how f-7 and mig-29 looks like and posting them I see not necessary. Please bring something important next time otherwise I request the moderators to delete those pictures and messages.





> MOSCOW &#8212; Russian President Vladimir Putin on Jan. 15 met the prime minister of Bangladesh for talks that included the signing of a $1 billion arms contract, the Asian nation&#8217;s biggest since its 1971 independence.
> 
> Bangladesh has recently been expanding its defense capabilities, building a new air base close to neighboring Myanmar and adding frigates to its navy.
> 
> &#8220;Our countries intend to expand their military and technological cooperation,&#8221; news agencies quoted Putin as telling Bangladeshi Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina during a Kremlin ceremony. &#8220;Russia will extend Bangladesh a credit of $1 billion, which will be spent on the purchase on Russian weapons and military technology,&#8221; the Russian leader said.
> 
> *The arms purchase agreement included orders for armored vehicles and infantry weapons, air defense systems and Mi-17 transport helicopters,* a source close to Russia&#8217;s state arms export agency told the Vedomosti business daily. The source said the purchase did not include any tank orders because Bangladesh had earlier obtained those from China.
> 
> *Bangladesh also opted out of its initial plans to purchase eight advanced Mig-29 fighter jets because of their $500 million price tag.*
> 
> A separate part of the agreements saw Russia assign $500 million to finance the construction of Bangladesh&#8217;s first nuclear power plant, to be built at a site called Rooppur. The two planned Rooppur reactors are expected to cost $4 billion, with Russia also agreeing to continue financing construction after the first phase of the project is complete, news reports said.
> 
> Bangladesh&#8217;s military spending spree follows the recent discovery of offshore natural gas deposits, which Russian officials believe means it will have no problems repaying the credit.
> 
> A.N.M Muniruzzaman, an analyst at the Dhaka-based Institute of Peace and Security Studies, told AFP it was the biggest defense deal ever to be signed by Bangladesh, which gained independence in 1971.


Russia, Bangladesh Seal $1 Billion Arms Deal | Defense News | defensenews.com

And yes, Bangladesh did order some ships from China. Submarines are also on the list. 

However, analysts question the transparency of the deal with Russia. 

Rest assured, we won't be seeing any Sukhois in BAF for quite some time (sadly).

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## BDforever

*This old news that Bangladesh bought 4 c130E aircrafts and will be upgraded to c130H with the help of USA for $180 million,
project details given below:*

PROJECT INFO

Project Name: Provide Logistics Support for C-130E Aircraft - Bangladesh
Project Status: Planning
Project Type: Parent
Project Start Quarter: Q2 2012
Project End Quarter: Q2 2017
Project Value (USD): 180 million
Project Sector: Logistics & Support
Project Background:
The proposed contract is to provide regeneration, overhaul, modifications, and logistics support for Bangladesh defence forces C-130E aircraft.
Project Description:
The US proposes to provide regeneration, overhaul, modifications, and logistics support for four Lockheed Martin's C-130E US Air Force baseline aircraft and 20 T56AA Rolls-Royce engines to Bangladesh, under Foreign Military Sale (FMS).
The potential contract also includes provision of transportation, aircraft ferry support, repair and return, spare and repair parts, support equipment, tools and test equipment, technical data and publications, personnel training and training equipment, US Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.
The proposed US$180 million contract will modernize the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) aging cargo aircraft fleet.
Project Location: Ganobhabon Complex, Shere Bangla Nagar, 1207, Dhaka, Bangladesh, Asia.

SCOPE TYPES

Project Scope:
The US$180 million contract involves provision of:
1. Regeneration, overhaul, modifications, and logistics support for four Lockheed Martin's C-130E aircraft
2. 20 T56AA Rolls-Royce engines
3. Transportation
4. Aircraft ferry support
5. Repair and return
6. Spare and repair parts
7. Support equipment
8. Tools and test equipment
9. Technical data and publications
10. Personnel training and training equipment
11. US Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and
12. Other related elements of logistics support.
source: US proposes to provide logistics support to Bangladesh

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## Rokto14

BAF should get an ex-squadron of F-16 from USA if its possible to boost their air defense capabilities.


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## BDforever

Rokto14 said:


> BAF should get an ex-squadron of F-16 from USA if its possible to boost their air defense capabilities.



bangladesh asked for it long time ago, US government did not agree, said it is inappropriate for Bangladesh

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## Zabaniyah

Rokto14 said:


> BAF should get an ex-squadron of F-16 from USA if its possible to boost their air defense capabilities.





BDforever said:


> bangladesh asked for it long time ago, US government did not agree, said it is inappropriate for Bangladesh



U.S. refused to sell F-16s to Bangladesh :: F-16.net

Discussed here as well:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/113695-u-s-refused-sell-f-16s-bangladesh.html

Also refer to "AMRAAM politics":
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-strategic-forces/49616-air-air-weapons-aiming-high-ground.html
Credits to fatman17 sir.

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## Rokto14

BDforever said:


> bangladesh asked for it long time ago, US government did not agree, said it is inappropriate for Bangladesh


I guess Bangladesh can't really rely on USA for defense imports. They have to look up to Russia for that.

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## BDforever

* 1 squadron Yak 130 Upcoming advanced jet trainer of BAF*

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## BDforever

*Latest news: within 3-4 months upgraded Mig29SMT will arrive in Bangladesh.*

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## J dud

can any one give info about BAF's future procurements... what happened to the su 27 deal ..is it canceled ? any info will be appreciated...


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## mb444

BDforever said:


> * 1 squadron Yak 130 Upcoming advanced jet trainer of BAF*



Bdforever,
I do not believe any agreement regarding the YAKs were signed. I also do not see any indication that talks are continiuing. Can you shed some light. Do you have any info regarding the YAKs beyond what's available in the public domain?


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## BDforever

mb444 said:


> Bdforever,
> I do not believe any agreement regarding the YAKs were signed. I also do not see any indication that talks are continiuing. Can you shed some light. Do you have any info regarding the YAKs beyond what's available in the public domain?


it has been offically confirmed that we are getting yak 130, many daily newspapers published it


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## mb444

BDForever,

Many newspaper indeed did confirm it at the time prior to Hasina going Moscow. 

However please note to the best of my knowledge the discussion around yaks and migs failed as BD could not accept the high interest changes associated with the loan.

It is my understanding that Yaks have not been bought. This would be supported by the fact that mig deal had not gone through either. What would be the point of a trainer without fighters. Yaks and migs would have been purchased at the same time, however deal could not be struck.

In the public domain I have not seen anything post Moscow tour to say deal has been done . Have you seen anything since Hasina returned?


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## eastwatch

Rokto14 said:


> BAF should get an ex-squadron of F-16 from USA if its possible to boost their air defense capabilities.



Can any one tell if F-16s are BVR capable or not. As far as I know they are not BVR capable.

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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> Can any one tell if F-16s are BVR capable or not. As far as I know they are not BVR capable.



at present US F-16 is BVR capable so far i know, but those are only for US air force 



mb444 said:


> BDForever,
> 
> Many newspaper indeed did confirm it at the time prior to Hasina going Moscow.
> 
> However please note to the best of my knowledge the discussion around yaks and migs failed as BD could not accept the high interest changes associated with the loan.
> 
> It is my understanding that Yaks have not been bought. This would be supported by the fact that mig deal had not gone through either. What would be the point of a trainer without fighters. Yaks and migs would have been purchased at the same time, however deal could not be struck.
> 
> In the public domain I have not seen anything post Moscow tour to say deal has been done . Have you seen anything since Hasina returned?



bd already accepted high interest rate 4% , and yak 130 is confirmed, even wiki says we have ordered 16 of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-130

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## Rokto14

eastwatch said:


> Can any one tell if F-16s are BVR capable or not. As far as I know they are not BVR capable.


Whats BVR?


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## BDforever

Rokto14 said:


> Whats BVR?


BVR= Beyond Visual Range. The term beyond-visual-range missile (BVR) usually refers to an air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) that is capable of engaging at ranges of 20 nmi (37 km) or beyond.

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## Sergi

BDforever said:


> at present US F-16 is BVR capable so far i know, but those are only for US air force



Latest Blocks of F-16 are BVR capable. Even PAF had BVR capability for years now.

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## animelive

BDforever said:


> yak 130 is confirmed, even wiki says we have ordered 16 of it.
> Yakovlev Yak-130 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You know i could go and edit it and change the number to 32. would you believe that?


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## BDforever

animelive said:


> You know i could go and edit it and change the number to 32. would you believe that?



then go to pak-fa wiki and write there that bangladesh confirmed 100 pak-fa to buy

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## bigbossman



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## BDforever

*F-7 BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far :**

1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
3) Full glass cockpit.
4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver
lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simulteneously.
6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)
7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2,
PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.
13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
14) Reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig21s and many of the other contemporary fighters.

source: Bangladesh Airforce facebook fan page*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

BDforever said:


> *F-7 BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far :**
> 
> 1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
> 2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
> 3) Full glass cockpit.
> 4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
> 5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver
> lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simulteneously.
> 6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)
> 7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
> 8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2,
> PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
> 9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
> 10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
> 11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
> 12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.
> 13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
> 14) Reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig21s and many of the other contemporary fighters.
> 
> source: Bangladesh Airforce facebook fan page*



How do they compare with F-7MP and F-7PG operated by PAF?


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## BDforever

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> How do they compare with F-7MP and F-7PG operated by PAF?



i do not know, can you provide F-7MP and F-7PG configurations ?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Also does BAF have BVR missile... if yes... than which?

Also does BAF have BVR missiles... if yes... than which?


----------



## BDforever

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Also does BAF have BVR missile... if yes... than which?
> 
> Also does BAF have BVR missiles... if yes... than which?



the above details so far i know.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

BDforever said:


> i do not know, can you provide F-7MP and F-7PG configurations ?



According to wiki our versions are more advanced and tailor made for PAFs requirements... including italian radars,sidewinders,2 peice canopies,glass cockpits and beter western and KAMRA built ECM suites..


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## BDforever

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> According to wiki our versions are more advanced and tailor made for PAFs requirements... including italian radars,sidewinders,2 peice canopies,glass cockpits and beter western and KAMRA built ECM suites..



wiki does not say it, can you provide the link ?
edit: got it. sorry


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

BDforever said:


> wiki does not say it, can you provide the link ?



Read abt again...
http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...fqYgEDhOn350nl4ondgiRiA&bvm=bv.43287494,d.ZWU


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## BDforever

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Read abt again...
> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...fqYgEDhOn350nl4ondgiRiA&bvm=bv.43287494,d.ZWU



check my post again


----------



## Mian H Amin.

what is bangladesh's main fighter aircrafts ?


----------



## M_Saint

BDforever said:


> *Latest news: within 3-4 months upgraded Mig29SMT will arrive in Bangladesh.*


*SHOW US THE PROOF FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE, NOT BDMILITARY'S ONE BUT LIKE THE ONE OF ISPR OR DEFENCE MINISTRY, PLEASE. 

*



mb444 said:


> BDForever,
> 
> Many newspaper indeed did confirm it at the time prior to Hasina going Moscow.
> 
> However please note to the best of my knowledge the discussion around yaks and migs failed as BD could not accept the high interest changes associated with the loan.
> 
> It is my understanding that Yaks have not been bought. This would be supported by the fact that mig deal had not gone through either. What would be the point of a trainer without fighters. Yaks and migs would have been purchased at the same time, however deal could not be struck.
> 
> In the public domain I have not seen anything post Moscow tour to say deal has been done . Have you seen anything since Hasina returned?


mb444 BRO, U are right on the money and the YAK deal hasn't gone through for sure.


----------



## BDforever

M_Saint said:


> *SHOW US THE PROOF FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE, NOT BDMILITARY'S ONE BUT LIKE THE ONE OF ISPR OR DEFENCE MINISTRY, PLEASE.
> 
> *



Defence Ministry ? ! ! ! 

source from BAF personnel


----------



## M_Saint

Mian H Amin. said:


> what is bangladesh's main fighter aircrafts ?


F-7s AND 8 MIG UVS AKA ULTRA VERSATILE RUSKIE MADE BUT BHARATI'S BROKERED ONES.



BDforever said:


> Defence Ministry ? ! ! !
> 
> source from BAF personnel



Well I meant some sorts of news for the allocation of fund to upgrade from UVs to SMTs. Just because BD's ISPR seems mum on the issue then what other option do U have for the credible source?


----------



## BDforever

M_Saint said:


> F-7s AND 8 MIG UVS AKA ULTRA VERSATILE RUSKIE MADE BUT BHARATI'S BROKERED ONES.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I meant some sorts of news for the allocation of fund to upgrade from UVs to SMTs. Just because BD's ISPR seems mum on the issue then what other option do U have for the credible source?



well i posted what i got from BAF personnel.


----------



## M_Saint

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Read abt again...
> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...fqYgEDhOn350nl4ondgiRiA&bvm=bv.43287494,d.ZWU


I think PAF is going to keep F-7PGs as those are pretty good point defence's fighters. OTH, F7-BGIs would probably be the best of the entire lot as it would have almost everything that PGs had + many more like 75+ miles of Radar's range and glass cockpits, thanks.



BDforever said:


> well i posted what i got from BAF personnel.



OK, let's hope that BAFER's dissemination come to fruition then. Finger crossed.

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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> *F-7 BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far :**
> 
> 1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
> 2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
> 3) Full glass cockpit.
> 4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
> 5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver
> lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simulteneously.
> 6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)
> 7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
> 8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2,
> PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
> 9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
> 10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
> 11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
> 12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.
> 13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
> 14) Reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig21s and many of the other contemporary fighters.
> 
> source: Bangladesh Airforce facebook fan page*



So far, this is the most elaborate specifications that I have read about the F-7BGI planes BAF bought from China. BAF very seldom declares its purchases, but a select group of BD posters were criticizing it is not BVR capable. I was almost the only one to defend the purchase. These special people were showing fondness for some other expensive plane with almost the similar features of F-7BGI, but 3 times more expensive. Now, read also the small news below published by XairForce and it referrred to the news agency below:

Source: Bangladesh Agencies News - 22 January 2013

The Bangladesh Air Force has F-7BGI Fighter Aircraft. New F-7BGI of Bangladesh AF - sixteen examples will be delivered as a stop-gap until new generation fighters (JF-17?) appear. These are arguably the most advanced F-7s ever built (J-7G2 airframe, glass cockpit, HOTAS, GPS guided PGMs, improved KLJ-6F radar with 85+km range and 2 target simultaneous tracking, WP-14C Kunlun III engine with 82 kN thrust). (1/22/2013)

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## Mian H Amin.

M_Saint said:


> F-7s AND 8 MIG UVS AKA ULTRA VERSATILE RUSKIE MADE BUT BHARATI'S BROKERED ONES.



so thats it ???
well so i wonder what do they wana talk about in that thread ??  because f7 ? i dont think any airforce use them anymore as their main aircrafts ... but i can understand because they are not in any such situation where they will need advanced military , especially not airforce .. they dont have any such threat from any country in the region.


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## mb444

eastwatch said:


> So far, this is the most elaborate specifications that I have read about the F-7BGI planes BAF bought from China. BAF very seldom declares its purchases, but a select group of BD posters were criticizing it is not BVR capable. I was almost the only one to defend the purchase. These special people were showing fondness for some other expensive plane with almost the similar features of F-7BGI, but 3 times more expensive. Now, read also the small news below published by XairForce and it referrred to the news agency below:
> 
> Source: Bangladesh Agencies News - 22 January 2013
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force has F-7BGI Fighter Aircraft. New F-7BGI of Bangladesh AF - sixteen examples will be delivered as a stop-gap until new generation fighters (JF-17?) appear. These are arguably the most advanced F-7s ever built (J-7G2 airframe, glass cockpit, HOTAS, GPS guided PGMs, improved KLJ-6F radar with 85+km range and 2 target simultaneous tracking, WP-14C Kunlun III engine with 82 kN thrust). (1/22/2013)




Dude,

Every BD here wants the best for the country. Those who criticised the purchase did so because they wanted planes with more teeth. We can not just maintain numbers we must keep pace with our neighbours. Deference can only be achieved if our assets pose a threat to our enemies.

If these are better than expected then hats off to our military planners and you for sticking to your position and being vindicated.

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## BDforever

*I just gotten news that Mig 29 (SE or UB) upgraded to Mig 29 ( NATO Fulcrum-C standard) in Bangladesh.
Bangladesh purchased 6 Mig SE (downgraded export version of Mig 29 S) and 2 Mig 29 UB. 4 of them send to be upgraded to Mig 29 SMT standard . others are upgraded to NATO Fulcrum-C standard (can be Mig 29S/ Mig 29S-13/Mig 29 SM , not sure which one) by Bangladesh. i will post more when get more details.*

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## eastwatch

mb444 said:


> Dude,
> 
> Every BD here wants the best for the country. Those who criticised the purchase did so because they wanted planes with more teeth. We can not just maintain numbers we must keep pace with our neighbours. Deference can only be achieved if our assets pose a threat to our enemies.
> 
> If these are better than expected then hats off to our military planners and you for sticking to your position and being vindicated.



You seem to think a mere 16 units of BGI will be our last purchase of planes. But, these planes were meant to replace the ageing A-5s only. There will certainly be new purchases in the future. Our country's economy will allow its airforce to induct or operate at least 9 sq. of planes. But, everythig needs time. We do not have yet even built new runways/air-base or shelters for the next phase of purchase. We have to build these before BAF can make a purchase.

BGI is not without teeth and these teeth are enough to replace the A-5s. Moreover, every airfore is a miz of lows and highs. Even China stil uses F-7s and there was a day when Mig-21 (F-7) was called the poor man's F-16. So, why to see in a negative eye the BAF decision to induct these reliable planes? I think, this decision was best for the BAF.

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## mb444

I do not think this is our last purchase but strategic value of these I do not get. No expert in military matter I admit but deterrence value of these I question. Can these protect our skies now? If so all very well. I understand we can only build up BAF incrementally but each purchase should enhance our forces vis-a-vis others. If these have done this then good..... It was a positive purchase.


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## BDforever

mb444 said:


> I do not think this is our last purchase but strategic value of these I do not get. No expert in military matter I admit but deterrence value of these I question. Can these protect our skies now? If so all very well. I understand we can only build up BAF incrementally but each purchase should enhance our forces vis-a-vis others. If these have done this then good..... It was a positive purchase.



those are basically replacement of A 5 fighters. I understand what are you trying to say. All i see that after long years of ignorance, our armed forces is getting shape now

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## mb444

BDforever said:


> those are basically replacement of A 5 fighters. I understand what are you trying to say. All i see that after long years of ignorance, our armed forces is getting shape now



I really hope so. BN developments are positive. BAF needs similar aggressive modernisation. I read in another thread that we are seeking to atleast assemble light planes in the near future. Each baby steps is significant. For BAF I look forward to a day when we can manufacture our own indeginious bird. I hope BAF is thinking along that line. Doing it on own would be too expensive so we should seek to join with others. Ones defense is never secure unless we can manufacture our own weapons.

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## BDforever

mb444 said:


> I really hope so. BN developments are positive. BAF needs similar aggressive modernisation. I read in another thread that we are seeking to atleast assemble light planes in the near future. Each baby steps is significant. For BAF I look forward to a day when we can manufacture our own indeginious bird. I hope BAF is thinking along that line. Doing it on own would be too expensive so we should seek to join with others. Ones defense is never secure unless we can manufacture our own weapons.



among all 3 armed forces (land force, air force, navy force) BAF is the biggest joke.
BAF already taken initiatives to built first own trainer+light attack air craft by 2021. now finger cross

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## DESERT FIGHTER

BDforever said:


> among all 3 armed forces (land force, air force, navy force) BAF is the biggest joke.
> BAF already taken initiatives to built first own trainer+light attack air craft by 2021. now finger cross



Sources please.... with zero aviation industry BD will build a trainer cum light attack plane by 2021... sounds like a wet dream... no offence!



BDforever said:


> among all 3 armed forces (land force, air force, navy force) BAF is the biggest joke.
> BAF already taken initiatives to built first own trainer+light attack air craft by 2021. now finger cross



Sources please.... with zero aviation industry BD will build a trainer cum light attack plane by 2021... sounds like a wet dream... no offence!


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## BDforever

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Sources please.... with zero aviation industry BD will build a trainer cum light attack plane by 2021... sounds like a wet dream... no offence!
> 
> 
> 
> Sources please.... with zero aviation industry BD will build a trainer cum light attack plane by 2021... sounds like a wet dream... no offence!


officially said it , now here is little info
Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## mb444

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Sources please.... with zero aviation industry BD will build a trainer cum light attack plane by 2021... sounds like a wet dream... no offence!
> 
> 
> 
> Sources please.... with zero aviation industry BD will build a trainer cum light attack plane by 2021... sounds like a wet dream... no offence!



BD will first seek to assemble planes by 2021. Why should that be unachievable. Every nation starts from somewhere. The intention to do so was announced by the PM when she opened a new BAF facility. The news was posted possibly in this tread in earlier page.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

mb444 said:


> BD will first seek to assemble planes by 2021. Why should that be unachievable. Every nation starts from somewhere. The intention to do so was announced by the PM when she opened a new BAF facility. The news was posted possibly in this tread in earlier page.



Assembling and building are 2 entirely different things dont u think? also can i have a source for this news?


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## kobiraaz

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Assembling and building are 2 entirely different things dont u think? also can i have a source for this news?



China will do it in Dhaka, Any prob???

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## DESERT FIGHTER

kobiraaz said:


> China will do it in Dhaka, Any prob???



 No sources,no official statements... hell yeah... china is going to do tht in dhaka..

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## kobiraaz

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> No sources,no official statements... hell yeah... china is going to do tht in dhaka..



not interested in worthless debate....... when Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre was established a goal was set to produce local training aircraft equivalent to present Pt-6 role within 2021... Many military sources confirmed it...... discussed in PDF many times.....

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## eastwatch

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Assembling and building are 2 entirely different things dont u think? also can i have a source for this news?



Yes, assembling and building are two different things. So, what? We will start to learn first how to assemble, then. I wonder, why it is bothering you? You feel a little bit jealous, don't you? But, no neighbouring country can stop our progress, remember this. If China can help us teach how to build warship, why not a small plane, too?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

kobiraaz said:


> not interested in worthless debate....... when Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre was established a goal was set to produce local training aircraft equivalent to present Pt-6 role within 2021... Many military sources confirmed it...... discussed in PDF many times.....



Bac is established for overhauling aircrafts not building them and by surfing the web i couldnt find any info on any trainer aircraft ... just like the claim of 16 milgems and bd joining any tank project... just hate lying...


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## kobiraaz

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Bac is established for overhauling aircrafts not building them and by surfing the web i couldnt find any info on any trainer aircraft ... just like the claim of 16 milgems and bd joining any tank project... just hate lying...



The GOAL IS TO START BUILDING BASIC TRAINER AROUND 2021 WITH CHINA... IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Right now its a Overhauling Centre....

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## DESERT FIGHTER

kobiraaz said:


> The GOAL IS TO START BUILDING BASIC TRAINER AROUND 2021 WITH CHINA... IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Right now its a Overhauling Centre....




Okay ... so can i see a source of the new just like 16 milgems and 4th gen mbt project with turkiye?


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## kobiraaz

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Okay ... so can i see a source of the new just like 16 milgems and 4th gen mbt project with turkiye?



BAF gets surface-to-air missile system, aeronautical centre
Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on Sunday urged the members of Bangladesh Air Force to remain always ready to safeguard the country's independence and sovereignty.

The prime minister gave the directive while addressing the induction ceremony of surface-to-air missile system and Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre at Kurmitola Air Force Base in the morning.

The missile system of FM-90 category is a short-range air defence system (SRADS).

This is an advanced all weather surface-to-air defence weapon which is capable of engaging targets flying at low or very low altitude.

The weapon has high probability and impressive engagement capability at very low altitude.

It has also very short reaction time and the system can engage aircraft, helicopters, and precision-guided weapons such as cruise missiles, technical air-to-ground missiles, anti-radiation missile etc.

The FM-90 weapon system is mainly used for the protection of key instalments such as airfield and aerodrome facilities, command control communication centres, bridges etc and it can also provide air defence for fielded force.

The government of China extended cooperation in installing the surface-to-air missile system and setting up the Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre.

Addressing the induction ceremony, the prime minister said the government is working to build the Air Force as a modern, skilled and strong force in line with the "Vision 2021".

Later, the prime minister addressed the officers of the Air Force saying that there is no alternative to having an effective Air Force to protect the independence and sovereignty of the motherland.

Hasina said one-squadron F-7 BGI fighter planes and some other helicopters are going to be included in the arsenal of the Air Force.

Besides, procurement of several transports aircraft is also under consideration of the government, she added.

About the newly set-up aeronautical centre, the prime minister said BAF would not be able to repair the damaged aircraft and helicopters.

Besides, the force can make light tools of aircraft at the aeronautical centre, which would save huge amount of money, she said.
*
The prime minister hoped that the aeronautical centre would make prototype of light aircrafts by 2021.*

Paying rich tributes to all martyrs of the Liberation War, including members of the Air Force, the prime minister said every member of the Air Force must know the real history of the emergence of Bangladesh through the Liberation War under the leadership of Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.

Earlier, on her arrival at the force base, Air Force Chief Air Vice Marshal Shah Md Ziaur Rahman received her.

Later, a smartly turned out contingent of the Air Force gave her salute when she watched the missile parade.

The force's pilots also welcomed the prime minister with a spectacular fly past.

Planning Minister Air Vice Marshal (retd) AK Khandker, Home Minister Shahara Khatun, Foreign Minister Dr Dipu Moni, State Minister for Liberation War Affairs Captain (retd) AB Tajul Islam, Advisers to the Prime Minister Maj Gen (retd) Tarique Ahmed Siddique and HT Imam and high military and government officials and foreign diplomats were present. -UNB

daily sun | Metropolis | BAF gets surface-to-air missile system, aeronautical centre

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## eastwatch

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Okay ... so can i see a source of the new just like 16 milgems and 4th gen mbt project with turkiye?



Hope the link below will satisfy your mean ego. You have shown the audacity of saying a unit of milgem will cost us ours 4 years of defence budget. Now, little baby, learn here that BN will purchase 4 milgems costing only $250 million/ea from Turkey. We have odered another two stealth corvettes from China, type 056, for your information. Find the link yourself, you know how to get one, isn't it? Note also that our two 056s will be 10m longer than the Pakistani one. Now, do not get overwhelmed with jealousy. It may cause a heart attack. So, be careful and take the news easy, OK?

THE BANGLADESH NAVY TEN-YEAR STRATEGIC ACQUISITION PLAN | Beegeagle's Blog

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## DESERT FIGHTER

eastwatch said:


> Hope the link below will satisfy your mean ego. You have shown the audacity of saying a unit of milgem will cost us ours 4 years of defence budget. Now, little baby, learn hear that BN will purchase 4 milgems costing only $250 million/ea from Turkey. We have odered another two stealth corvettes from China, type 056H, for your information. Find the link yourself, you know how to get one, isn't it? Note also that our two 056s will be 10m longer than the Pakistani one. Now, do not get overwhelmed with jealousy. It may cause a heart attack. So, be careful and take the news easy, OK?
> 
> THE BANGLADESH NAVY TEN-YEAR STRATEGIC ACQUISITION PLAN | Beegeagle's Blog



Lalay im asking abt the 16 milgems BDforever quoted abt... not to forget the 4th gen jet and the 4th gen mbt project with turkiye... as for Pakistan.. dude we are buying 4 milgems,6-7 subs and 3 Type54As and have a nuclear sub underdevelopment... should i be jealous now?


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## PlanetSoldier

eastwatch said:


> Yes, assembling and building are two different things. So, what? We will start to learn first how to assemble, then. I wonder, why it is bothering you? You feel a little bit jealous, don't you? But, no neighbouring country can stop our progress, remember this. If China can help us teach how to build warship, why not a small plane, too?



Both Chinese and Russian experts are working in our Aeronautical Centre so far I know.

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## Rokto14

BDforever said:


> officially said it , now here is little info
> Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The page in wikipedia doesn't really much. It only states when it was founded and who was it founded it by. But of course it does states what does it produces


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## Rokto14

eastwatch said:


> Hope the link below will satisfy your mean ego. You have shown the audacity of saying a unit of milgem will cost us ours 4 years of defence budget. Now, little baby, learn here that BN will purchase 4 milgems costing only $250 million/ea from Turkey. We have odered another two stealth corvettes from China, type 056, for your information. Find the link yourself, you know how to get one, isn't it? Note also that our two 056s will be 10m longer than the Pakistani one. Now, do not get overwhelmed with jealousy. It may cause a heart attack. So, be careful and take the news easy, OK?
> 
> THE BANGLADESH NAVY TEN-YEAR STRATEGIC ACQUISITION PLAN | Beegeagle's Blog


Ok from this link, i read that BN will get 3 more maritime patrol aircraft, so are they gonna be Dornier Do28 again or some other MPA?


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## BDforever

Rokto14 said:


> Ok from this link, i read that BN will get 3 more maritime patrol aircraft, so are they gonna be Dornier Do28 again or some other MPA?


1. they are going to be 3 Z-9 helicopter
2. BAF official sources said the centre is expected to manufacture prototype of a light aircraft by 2030 (written in that link)

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## Porbot

BDforever said:


> 1. they are going to be 3 Z-9 helicopter
> 2. BAF official sources said the centre is expected to manufacture prototype of a light aircraft by 2030 (written in that link)




Are you sure we will able make light aircraft by that year? In Sha Allah.


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## mb444

A prototype aircraft will be assembled. We will not be manufacturing every component as such. The aircraft will be a trainer, it will not be a fighter aircraft as such. May able to do light duties. The aim is to learn and augment and build upon existing skillset of BAF. Hopefully we will join a conglomerate of nation to jointly develop fighters at some point in the future.

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## bigzgvr4

mb444 said:


> A prototype aircraft will be assembled. We will not be manufacturing every component as such. The aircraft will be a trainer, it will not be a fighter aircraft as such. May able to do light duties. The aim is to learn and augment and build upon existing skillset of BAF. Hopefully we will join a conglomerate of nation to jointly develop fighters at some point in the future.



chip in for a 5th gen JF-t based Jet with china and pakistan


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## genmirajborgza786

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> No sources,no official statements... hell yeah... china is going to do tht in dhaka..



*Quit trolling*

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## BDforever

*Air defence system of Bangladesh*

SAM
.........
1.FM-90
2.LY-60D


Manportable SAM
....................................
1.HN-5A
2.FN-16
3.QW-2
4.QW-18


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## Gyp 111

If China help you to build JF-17 and K-8 then why they will not help us to built a light aircraft by 2021?


Pakistani Nationalist said:


> No sources,no official statements... hell yeah... china is going to do tht in dhaka..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gyp 111 said:


> If China help you to build JF-17 and K-8 then why they will not help us to built a light aircraft by 2021?



First of all there is no official statement reguardin any trainer jet to be built by bd.
2)Does bd have tht much money?
3)Why would china help bd build a trainer when they already have several types of trainer jets?
4)Bangladesh is not Pakistan

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## anyrandom

BAF cannot maintain fleets of Su-30. It's a beast aircraft and it needs a lot of lot of maintenance and fuel. So unless bangladesh is going to see a major increase in defense budget(like 3x), it is not going to be possible


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## BDforever

anyrandom said:


> BAF cannot maintain fleets of Su-30. It's a beast aircraft and it needs a lot of lot of maintenance and fuel. So unless bangladesh is going to see a major increase in defense budget(like 3x), it is not going to be possible



how much it is for 1 squadron Su30 ?


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## Zabaniyah

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> First of all there is no official statement reguardin any trainer jet to be built by bd.
> 2)Does bd have tht much money?
> 3)Why would china help bd build a trainer when they already have several types of trainer jets?
> 4)Bangladesh is not Pakistan





> BAF official sources said the centre is expected to manufacture prototype of a light aircraft by 2021.


Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha (BSS)



BDforever said:


> how much it is for 1 squadron Su30 ?



Depends on the variant. 

Vietnam's order of 12 Su-30MK2's costed well over $1 billion. 


> "Last week, a contract was signed to supply Vietnam with 12 more SU-30MK2 fighter planes. The planes will be supplied in 2011 and 2012," the source was quoted as saying.
> 
> "The contract also calls for the supply of various aviation arms, equipment and parts," the source said, putting the overall value of the deal at one billion dollars (727 million euros).



Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hSGUK2AVFzMQ_A-fLqZ9WW5pHyfg

And yes, they are very costly to maintain as well.

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## anyrandom

BDforever said:


> how much it is for 1 squadron Su30 ?



A single Su-30 costs about $35 million. Compare that to a Mig-29 which costs $25 million 
But thats not it, this plane is a beast, its very big, it needs lots of fuel and high speciality maintenance. Its not like in the current budget BAF cannot keep a fleet of Su-30 but it has so high costs that it will be impossible to spend on other projects of BAF.







Su 30 standing next to a F16.

Not now but in some years maybe BAF can think of it.


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## BDforever

anyrandom said:


> A single Su-30 costs about $35 million. Compare that to a Mig-29 which costs $25 million
> But thats not it, this plane is a beast, its very big, it needs lots of fuel and high speciality maintenance. Its not like in the current budget BAF cannot keep a fleet of Su-30 but it has so high costs that it will be impossible to spend on other projects of BAF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Su 30 standing next to a F16.
> 
> Not now but in some years maybe BAF can think of it.



looks like father and son 

lets see what BAF do

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## Zabaniyah

anyrandom said:


> A single Su-30 costs about $35 million. Compare that to a Mig-29 which costs $25 million
> But thats not it, this plane is a beast, its very big, it needs lots of fuel and high speciality maintenance. Its not like in the current budget BAF cannot keep a fleet of Su-30 but it has so high costs that it will be impossible to spend on other projects of BAF.



Should be over $50 million per unit by now. Remember, inflation also play a role. Vietnam's deal for the aircraft alone was overall $600 million, and that was way back in 2010. 

Agreed about the maintenance part. 

Personally I always preferred the F-15!

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## BDforever

Loki said:


> Should be over $50 million per unit by now. Remember, inflation also play a role. Vietnam's deal for the aircraft alone was overall $600 million, and that was way back in 2010.
> 
> Agreed about the maintenance part.
> 
> Personally I always preferred the F-15!



man F15 is really bad a$$ , perfect balance of armament and performance, best multi role figter plane ever produced, no one ever able to build like it till now, not even usa.


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## Zabaniyah

BDforever said:


> man F15 is really bad a$$ , perfect balance of armament and performance, best multi role figter plane ever produced, no one ever able to build like it till now, not even usa.



The F-15 is for air superiority to be precise. Just like the Su-27/30. 

Though, there is the F-15 Strike Eagle package for deep strike operations. And it's American, through and through 

It's a true multi-mission fighter. The world's first in fact. 

To be replaced by the F-35 in the USAF  

The F-14, F-15 and F-22 are my very favorites

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## Gyp 111

1)First of all there is no official statement reguardin any trainer jet to be built by bd.
Ans: BAC officially confirmed that they will built a light attack aircraft by 2021.

2)Does bd have tht much money?
Ans: yes we have that much money, if our corruption stops then we will be the another regional power in south asia

3)Why would china help bd build a trainer when they already have several types of trainer jets?
Ans: we have better friendship with China, so i think China will help us to build light attack aircraft by 2021.

4)Bangladesh is not Pakistan 
Ans: yes you are right Bangladesh is not Pakistan and we happy for that cause we don't want conflict among us, we don't want to see our people killing by some terrorist.

listen Bro i don't want to insult your country but if you insult my country, i will give you some example of your country 


Pakistani Nationalist said:


> First of all there is no official statement reguardin any trainer jet to be built by bd.
> 2)Does bd have tht much money?
> 3)Why would china help bd build a trainer when they already have several types of trainer jets?
> 4)Bangladesh is not Pakistan

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## BDforever

@Gyp 111 post edited


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## Gyp 111

mane 


BDforever said:


> @Gyp 111 post edited


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## BDforever

Gyp 111 said:


> mane



apni post edit korsen vhul dekhia dawar por, tai amio amar post edit koresi


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## Gyp 111

hmm korsi, tato sobai kore 


BDforever said:


> apni post edit korsen vhul dekhia dawar por, tai amio amar post edit koresi

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## Zabaniyah

Gyp 111 said:


> 3)Why would china help bd build a trainer when they already have several types of trainer jets?
> Ans: we have better friendship with China, so i think China will help us to build light attack aircraft by 2021.



The Pakistanis and Chinese are pretty close actually. Much more so than us in terms of the strategic value of their relationship. 

Our relationship with China is not what one would technically call an ally. 

But I agree, China can help us in building a trainer aircraft. In fact, any country can. It's no biggy.

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## Rokto14

anyrandom said:


> A single Su-30 costs about $35 million. Compare that to a Mig-29 which costs $25 million
> But thats not it, this plane is a beast, its very big, it needs lots of fuel and high speciality maintenance. Its not like in the current budget BAF cannot keep a fleet of Su-30 but it has so high costs that it will be impossible to spend on other projects of BAF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Su 30 standing next to a F16.
> 
> Not now but in some years maybe BAF can think of it.


Then what about the maintenance cost of Su-27? Is it cheaper than Su-30 and MiG 29?


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## anyrandom

Rokto14 said:


> Then what about the maintenance cost of Su-27? Is it cheaper than Su-30 and MiG 29?



Su 30 is an upgraded version of Su 27 and yeah it's cheaper then 30


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## animelive

Rokto14 said:


> Then what about the maintenance cost of Su-27? Is it cheaper than Su-30 and MiG 29?



Su-27 is old, we shouldn't go for that


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## BDforever

animelive said:


> Su-27 is old, we shouldn't go for that



su27SKM or Su27 SM2 are not old.


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## animelive

BDforever said:


> su27SKM or Su27 SM2 are not old.



Any significant changes? if we think about long term, then we should go for better fighters.


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## BDforever

animelive said:


> Any significant changes? if we think about long term, then we should go for better fighters.



Su-27SKM: It is a derivative of the Su-27SK but includes upgrades such as advanced cockpit, more sophisticated self-defense electronic countermeasures (ECM) and an in-flight refuelling system.

Su-27SM2: 4.5-gen block upgrade for Russian Su-27, featuring some technology of the Su-35BM; it includes Irbis-E radar, and upgraded engines and avionics.

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## BDforever

@animelive more info below 

In the opinions of specialists, the Su-27SM2 fighter, which is intended for Russia&#8217;s air force (the export variant is the Su-35) is a heavy upgrade of the Su-27/27SM fighters. The installation on the fighter of new aircraft engines with a thrust up to 14 tonnes (instead of 12.5 tonnes) and new aircraft equipment, including the &#8220;Irbis&#8221; aircraft radar, will be a distinguishing feature of the Su-27SM2. The fighter also is supposed to receive new long-range missiles of a different class.

It is planned that the Su-27SM2 will be a step in the creation of the future tactical aviation aircraft complex, inasmuch as on it many proposals for the fifth generation combat airplane will be perfected, Interfax notes.

(collected)

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## animelive

BDforever said:


> Su-27SKM: It is a derivative of the Su-27SK but includes upgrades such as advanced cockpit, more sophisticated self-defense electronic countermeasures (ECM) and an in-flight refuelling system.
> 
> Su-27SM2: 4.5-gen block upgrade for Russian Su-27, featuring some technology of the Su-35BM; it includes Irbis-E radar, and upgraded engines and avionics.



Russia will probably not allow Su-27SM2 because it has some feature of 35


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## BDforever

animelive said:


> Russia will probably not allow Su-27SM2 because it has some feature of 35



Su35 (Su27SM2) is for export, Su35BM is more advance and Su35S is domestic version of Su35BM. (edited)


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## Armstrong

@BDforever : I've said this before; I'll say it again - Just upgrade the Mig 29s you've got or procure more to the SMT standard ! 6-7 Squadrons of Mig 29 SMTs, assuming that 12 per squadron, would ensure that you've got between 70-80 pretty good Multi Role Platforms that you're already accustomed to. 

And then wait for the J-31 to mature before you think of procuring a squadron of it post 2030 or you procure some of the other 5th Generations programs that are coming up, as per that same time frame.

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## animelive

BDforever said:


> *Su35 (Su27SM2)* is for export, Su35BM is more advance and Su35S is domestic version of Su35BM. (edited)


Nope it is just a patched up version of Su27 with a few 25 features. Still lacks the needed teeth to it. Will be obsolete in a decade or two


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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> @BDforever : I've said this before; I'll say it again - Just upgrade the Mig 29s you've got or procure more to the SMT standard ! 6-7 Squadrons of Mig 29 SMTs, assuming that 12 per squadron, would ensure that you've got between 70-80 pretty good Multi Role Platforms that you're already accustomed to.
> 
> And then wait for the J-31 to mature before you think of procuring a squadron of it post 2030 or you procure some of the other 5th Generations programs that are coming up, as per that same time frame.


1. we are upgrading Mig29.
2.we are now looking for quality rather than quantity , we can not race with others of having a big number of fighter jets. ( we will buy highest 2 squadron of 4.5 gen fighters and wait for J-31)



animelive said:


> Nope it is just a patched up version of Su27 with a few 25 features. Still lacks the needed teeth to it. Will be obsolete in a decade or two



can you show us, i do not know

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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> 1. we are upgrading Mig29.
> 2.we are now looking for quality rather than quantity , we can not race with others of having a big number of fighter jets. ( we will buy highest 2 squadron of 4.5 gen fighters and wait for J-31)



Touuu yaraaaa a Mig 29 SMT is a pretty good piece of equipment - Why do you think India is upgrading all her Mig 29s to this level ? 

I still say - Go for it ! 

Maybe post 2020 procure a squadron of 4.5th Generation platform & then post 2040 go for a 5th Generation one but right now I can't imagine why BAF would want to procure a 4.5th Generation platform despite having no major threat from any of her neighbors !


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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> Touuu yaraaaa a Mig 29 SMT is a pretty good piece of equipment - Why do you think India is upgrading all her Mig 29s to this level ?
> 
> I still say - Go for it !
> 
> Maybe post 2020 procure a squadron of 4.5th Generation platform & then post 2040 go for a 5th Generation one but right now I can't imagine why BAF would want to procure a 4.5th Generation platform despite having no major threat from any of her neighbors !



forget about India , india has the ability to hold a big number of different generations of fighter jets. We do not have that ability.

just give you a scenario: a 5th generation has advantage over 4th generation fighter. so if we have 5th generation fighter , enemy will not be able to take advantage with 4th generation, they will need 5th generation fighter for fight. this is how we can reduce enemies capability over us. so rather having 6 squadron of 4th genration fighters, having 2 squadron 5th generation fighters is good idea.

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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> forget about India , india has the ability to hold a big number of different generations of fighter jets. We do not have that ability.
> 
> just give you a scenario: a 5th generation has advantage over 4th generation fighter. so if we have 5th generation fighter , enemy will not be able to take advantage with 4th generation, they will need 5th generation fighter for fight. this is how we can reduce enemies capability over us. so rather having 6 squadron of 4th genration fighters, having 2 squadron 5th generation fighters is good idea.



No not really; the enemy would just overwhelm you with numbers ! A 5th Generation fighter is Stealth but Stealth does not equate to 'invisibility' it means that a 5th Generation fighter wouldn't be detected till its almost right on top of you as opposed to from 50-60 miles away. How do you plan on using them ? As a Defensive force ? Then that would defeat the very purpose of Stealth ! As an offensive force ? How do you plan on doing that with around 2 squadrons of these ? Who is going to defend your Air Space when even one of them is out on an offensive mission ? Not to mention those 2 squadrons would be under constant surveillance which means your enemy would know when & from where you're planning on attacking them. 

And it goes without saying you can't just jump from a borderline 4th Generation bird to a 5th Generation one.....bohat training, logistics etc. are required ! A proper bleeding in process is needed.

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## BDforever

1. 5th generation fighters are not just stealth, they have some more advance features.
2. we are in defensive mode, 5th generation can be used for defense too, our air space is not so big, so we will be able to defend it by small number of fighters


Armstrong said:


> it goes without saying you can't just jump from a borderline 4th Generation bird to a 5th Generation one.....bohat training, logistics etc. are required ! A proper bleeding in process is needed.



3. i agree with it thats why we are filling the gap , not just by jumping to 5th generation

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## ejaz007

BDforever said:


> forget about India , india has the ability to hold a big number of different generations of fighter jets. We do not have that ability.
> 
> just give you a scenario: a 5th generation has advantage over 4th generation fighter. so if we have 5th generation fighter , enemy will not be able to take advantage with 4th generation, they will need 5th generation fighter for fight. this is how we can reduce enemies capability over us. so rather having 6 squadron of 4th genration fighters, having 2 squadron 5th generation fighters is good idea.



First thing first. Who is your enemy? Once you have decided on that than you can plan about which type of fighters you need.

If the enemy is India than you need mix of 4th and 5th generation fighters to protect your self. Since inducting large number of 5th generation fighters is not economically viable you need mix to tackle the threat.

If your enemy is other than India than even 4th generation fighters shall be enough for dealing with the threat.

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## eastwatch

For the defence of air space, BAF may need at least 9 sq. (9 x 16= 144) of 3.5G, 4G and 5G planes. Some people very naively think only two sq.of 5G planes can deter an enemy from attacking. But, I think it is impossible for a few planes, 5G they may be, to run every where in times of emergency. So, a small number cannot deter an enemy airforce from attacking. 

Since planes are very expensive to buy, therefore, a poor country like BD should better employ land-based (both fixed and mobile) SAMs, because it does not have the optimum number of planes. BAF is doing exactly the same. But, I do not know if some of the SAM platforms are mobile or not.

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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> For the defence of air space, BAF may need at least 9 sq. (9 x 16= 144) of 3.5G, 4G and 5G planes. Some people very naively think only two sq.of 5G planes can deter an enemy from attacking. But, I think it is impossible for a few planes, 5G they may be, to run every where in times of emergency. So, a small number cannot deter an enemy airforce from attacking.
> 
> Since planes are very expensive to buy, therefore, a poor country like BD should better employ land-based (both fixed and mobile) SAMs, because it does not have the optimum number of planes. BAF is doing exactly the same. But, I do not know if some of the SAM platforms are mobile or not.



SAM platforms are mobile

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## Lone

Since we are solely a defensive force, I strongly believe that we should go for multilayers of SAM. Heck we just got some SHORADs. Then some 4.5 and 5th GEn aircraft would be minimum deterrence or min ability to do some damage on the other side. We must go for SAM and then some handful squadron of Aircrafts.

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## Zabaniyah

Lone said:


> Since we are solely a defensive force, I strongly believe that we should go for multilayers of SAM. Heck we just got some SHORADs. Then some 4.5 and 5th GEn aircraft would be minimum deterrence or min ability to do some damage on the other side. We must go for SAM and then some handful squadron of Aircrafts.



The key is to use a force multiplier


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## Anubis

An32B in Kiev!


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## BDforever

guys watch this video of BAF 25 SQN PART I | Facebook

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## Koovie

eastwatch said:


> For the defence of air space, BAF may need at least 9 sq. (9 x 16= 144) of 3.5G, 4G and 5G planes. Some people very naively think only two sq.of 5G planes can deter an enemy from attacking. But, I think it is impossible for a few planes, 5G they may be, to run every where in times of emergency. So, a small number cannot deter an enemy airforce from attacking.
> 
> Since planes are very expensive to buy, therefore, a poor country like BD should better employ land-based (both fixed and mobile) SAMs, because it does not have the optimum number of planes. BAF is doing exactly the same. But, I do not know if some of the SAM platforms are mobile or not.



So many? And even 2 sqdrs of 5th gen fighters?? 

Pretty ambitious for an AF that does operate less than 10 4th gen fighters....


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## fatman17

eastwatch said:


> For the defence of air space, BAF may need at least 9 sq. (9 x 16= 144) of 3.5G, 4G and 5G planes. Some people very naively think only two sq.of 5G planes can deter an enemy from attacking. But, I think it is impossible for a few planes, 5G they may be, to run every where in times of emergency. So, a small number cannot deter an enemy airforce from attacking.
> 
> Since planes are very expensive to buy, therefore, a poor country like BD should better employ land-based (both fixed and mobile) SAMs, because it does not have the optimum number of planes. BAF is doing exactly the same. But, I do not know if some of the SAM platforms are mobile or not.



what is the current strength of the BAF - who will foot the bill for such a proposed AF. a 4th / 5th gen a/c will cost close to USD 80-100m per.

lets see what the outgoing CAS of BAF has to say in his interview to AFM - April issue.


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## PlanetSoldier

Armstrong said:


> @BDforever : I've said this before; I'll say it again - Just upgrade the Mig 29s you've got or procure more to the SMT standard ! 6-7 Squadrons of Mig 29 SMTs, assuming that 12 per squadron, would ensure that you've got between 70-80 pretty good Multi Role Platforms that you're already accustomed to.
> 
> And then wait for the J-31 to mature before you think of procuring a squadron of it post 2030 or you procure some of the other 5th Generations programs that are coming up, as per that same time frame.



7 squadrons of Mig-29 SMTs in BAF  ....man you kept nothing for politicians' pocket. Anyway, I would station 2 squadrons of them on chicken neck all the time  .

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## eastwatch

Koovie said:


> So many? And even 2 sqdrs of 5th gen fighters??
> 
> Pretty ambitious for an AF that does operate less than 10 4th gen fighters....



BAF has certainly an ambitious plan for the future induction of more 4/4.5G planes like Mig-29SMT or above. This is why it is talking with Russia to induct about a sq. of YAK-130 training planes. Why should BAF buy training planes to train its pilots to operate 4.5/5G planes, but then will not buy the fighters? 

You are talking about the present status. However, while you are having a static mind, BAF may have a dynamic thinking. Just think, what the military bought during the last three years for the Navy? Think of all the frigates, corvettes, LPCs-M, FACs and many others. How much do you think BN spent on thes goods? We also bought 3 transport helis from the US alonmgwith 20 Rolles Royce engines. Think also of tanks and SAMs. 

How much did we spend? It could be more than $2b. Now, the BN will also induct two submarines, and also two 100m long stealth type 056 corvettes. These are not our last shopping, certainly.

After the navy is strong enough, BAF will certainly purchase probably more migs and then will buy 5G planes. By this time our pilots will get training with YAK-130 on how to man the 5G planes. We are not a stupid oil rich country where the govt buys new weapons because of US insistence, but the soldiers are not given proper trainings to operate the weapons. 

We will bite only what we can swallow. You are very right to imply that we are a very poor country to afford hifi weapons. But we will buy these from our future money and we cannot afford the luxury of keeping these weapons unwrapped. And, lastly, do not also worry about our source of money. For one, the BoB is full of resources. For the next twenty years we will be spending only a fraction of our wealth that lies beneath there.

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## BDforever

fatman17 said:


> what is the current strength of the BAF - who will foot the bill for such a proposed AF. a 4th / 5th gen a/c will cost close to USD 80-100m per.
> 
> lets see what the outgoing CAS of BAF has to say in his interview to AFM - April issue.


1.quality 4th generation plane available at $30m-35$m per (not $80-$100)
2. 5th generation is still under development, will be available for export after 2025, we are talking about that time.

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## BDforever

Koovie said:


> So many? And even 2 sqdrs of 5th gen fighters??
> 
> Pretty ambitious for an AF that does operate less than 10 4th gen fighters....



Not Ambitious plan, here are some reasons:

*1.* We operate less than 10 4th gen fighters because of ignorance to armed forces. eg. Our economy is 2.092 times bigger than Myanmar (according to nominal GDP, PPP GDP comparison result will be more bigger) and they operates 32 Mig29s (in total 110-120 fighter aircraft) while we are operating only 8 Mig29s (in total 60-65 fighter aircraft)

*2.* By 2021 we will be middle income country.


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## Luftwaffe

There is no realistic Air Threat so far but one must incrementally invest & increase, modernize and head towards modern next generation weaponry.


My opinion is based upon Tactical Importance does it make sense I leave it to you people.

*Long Range Ground Radars
*Medium-High Altitude SAM Systems for Tri Arm. 
*Upgrade Mig-29s add 8 more with good number of weaponry and associated equipment
*Atleast a single AEW&C based on Chinese Y-8
*Couple of CN-295 [Naval Asset I suppose Air Force would be first to operate before an Naval Air Arm is established]
*ALCM Air Lunched Cruise Missiles 
*Land Attack Cruise Missiles and associated Systems
*Anti Radiation Missiles like Chinese LD-10 or similar Russian origin

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## fatman17

BDforever said:


> 1.quality 4th generation plane available at $30m-35$m per (not $80-$100)
> 2. 5th generation is still under development, will be available for export after 2025, we are talking about that time.



EFT/Gripen/Rafale/MiG-35 all 4th gen available for 30m-35m - pl buy me 1squadron each.

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## BDforever

fatman17 said:


> EFT/Gripen/Rafale/MiG-35 all 4th gen available for 30m-35m - pl buy me 1squadron each.



you think only EFT/Gripen/Rafale/MiG-35 are 4th generation available ? plz excuse me , i did not know it. i thought there are many other 4th generation available


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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> There is no realistic Air Threat so far but one must incrementally invest & increase, modernize and head towards modern next generation weaponry.
> 
> 
> My opinion is based upon Tactical Importance does it make sense I leave it to you people.
> 
> **Long Range Ground Radars*
> *Medium-High Altitude SAM Systems for Tri Arm.
> **Upgrade Mig-29s* add 8 more with good number of weaponry and associated equipment
> *Atleast a single AEW&C based on Chinese Y-8
> *Couple of CN-295 [Naval Asset I suppose Air Force would be first to operate before an Naval Air Arm is established]
> *ALCM Air Lunched Cruise Missiles
> *Land Attack Cruise Missiles and associated Systems
> *Anti Radiation Missiles like Chinese LD-10 or similar Russian origin



we already signed agreement with Russia( part of $1.5 billion arms purchase) to buy GAMA-DE radar, CASTA-2E2 radar
and upgrading Mig29s to SMT standard.


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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> we already signed agreement with Russia( part of $1.5 billion arms purchase) to buy GAMA-DE radar, CASTA-2E2 radar and upgrading Mig29s to SMT standard.



That's positive but what else is part of deal the russian deal like BVRs, Anti Radiation Missiles, Target & Reconnaissance Pods, any information?


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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> That's positive but what else is part of deal the russian deal like BVRs, Anti Radiation Missiles, Target & Reconnaissance Pods, any information?



it is reported that Bangladesh's procurement of equipment about 7 class weapons and equipment, including anti-tank missile Metis-M-1, armored vehicles BTR-80, BTR-80-K automatic grenade launcher AGS-30 transport armored vehicles PP- 91, MTU-90, Yak-130 trainer aircraft, armed transport helicopter Mi -171 SH, GAMA-DE radar, CASTA-2E2 radar.

Note: Russia agreed to build BTR 80 maintenance plant in Bangladesh so that we can maintenance or upgrade them in Bangladesh.


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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> it is reported that Bangladesh's procurement of equipment about 7 class weapons and equipment, including anti-tank missile Metis-M-1, armored vehicles BTR-80, BTR-80-K automatic grenade launcher AGS-30 transport armored vehicles PP- 91, MTU-90, Yak-130 trainer aircraft, armed transport helicopter Mi -171 SH, GAMA-DE radar, CASTA-2E2 radar.



I'm interested to know what comes with mig upgrades.


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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> I'm interested to know what comes with mig upgrades.



*It will be Mig29SMT standard* @Luftwaffe more info

*Mig29SMT*

The MiG-29SMT is the up-to-date modification of MiG-29 multirole frontline fighter. The aircraft exhibits a long flight range due to extra capacity of integral fuel tanks and installation of in-flight refueling system (similar to that of the MiG-29SD). The aircraft and engine service life and time limits and design service life have been feasibly increased; the labor requirements and maintenance costs have been reduced.

The MiG-29 evolution program initiated in the late 80-s led to the creation of the aircraft distinguished from the basic version not only by noticeable improvement of the fighter main parameters as a weapons platform-carrier (longer operational range), but also by principally new features.

The most vital feature of this fighter is the capability to effectively operate against air and ground or sea surface targets with the use of high-precision air-to-surface missiles, thus making it a multirole combat aircraft incorporating in one air vehicle the qualities of air superiority fighter and tactical strike aircraft.

The weapon control system of the MiG-29SMT aircraft is built around the ZHUK-ME advanced multimode radar developed by the PHASOTRON-NIIR Moscow-based company. The integrated system incorporates a digital top-level computer system based on the principles of open architecture with use of multiplex data buses, meeting the MIL-STD-1553B requirements, and new information-control system employing full-color large-format liquid-crystal displays, measuring 152 x 203 mm (6 x 8 inch). The displays are developed by the Ramenskoye instruments design bureau (city of Ramenskoye, Moscow region).

The HOTAS concept is fully realized in the MiG-29SMT cockpit; the pilot controls the aircraft, performs targeting and launches weapons without removal of hands from the control stick and throttle control lever.

The MiG-29SMT aircraft six underwing and one ventral store stations can carry up to 5000 kg of external load, including the R-73E agile air-to-air missiles with a combined gas-aerodynamic control system and IR seeker with a wide off-boresight angles range, the RVV-AE medium-range air-to-air missiles with an active radar seeker and the R-27R1/ER1 medium-range air-to-air missiles with a semi-active radar seeker.

In operation against ground and sea surface targets, the MiG-29SMT is able to effectively use contemporary high-precision weapons: the Kh-29T(TE) air-to-surface missiles with a TV seeker, the Kh-31A antiship missiles, the Kh-31P antiradar missiles, the KAB-500KR guided bombs with a TV seeker and powerful warhead.

The upgraded model of batch production MIG-29SMT fighter has an additional two tanks of propellant can cover, without refueling, up to 3,500 kilometers and carry up to 5 tonnes of combat payload. The hatch design compares favorably with that of the predecessor models. The upgraded MIG can be committed to action as a fighter, interceptor, attack, reconnaissance or command post plane. It can, as a command post plane, be acting in contact with A-50 long-range radio detection and control jets. Any kind of Russian- or foreign-made air-to-air and air-to-surface launchers may be mounted aboard this plane.

A new up-to-date cockpit data display and control field, open-architecture airborne equipment complex based on highly effective computing facilities and multiplex communication channels (new navigation, ECM, communication, guidance and data recording systems) can be integrated. The aircraft can be provided with the "Zhuk-M" multimode radar boosting a longer range of air target detection and +/-90° viewing angle in azimuth. The radar is able to track a greater number of targets and engage them simultaneously; scanning in the air-to-surface modes (including those of high resolution) based on indication of moving and sea-surface targets have been incorporated. The weapons mix is widened.

At the buyer's request, radar-absorbent coatings can be applied, Western and national equipment can be installed and number of store stations can be increased. The process of in-service aircraft upgrading up to the MiG-29SMT level has been developed. Works on the aircraft further upgrading are under way.

MiG Corp. has also developed a modular system of MiG-29 upgrading to the MiG 29SMT level. This system is flexible, allowing potential clients to chose the set of aircraft upgrades what they really need. Set of upgrades includes three modules. First module is upgrading the aircraft weapons control system transforming MiG-29 into multirole fighter. A new "Zhuk-ME" radar with a terrain mapping mode is installed. Upgrade of the weapons control system allow to increase considerably the range of "air-to-air" and "air-to-ground" guided and unguided weapons.

While keeping unbeatable air combat characteristics, MiG-29 obtains strike functions, comparable with modern foreign competitors. Second module is increasing internal and drop fuel tanks capacity, upgrading fuel system and installing in-flight refueling equipment, adopted, according to customer's demand, for usage with Russian or foreign tanker aircraft. Third module is upgrading of on-board equipment and installation digital fly-by-wire control system. Pilot's cockpit is equipped with color LCD MFDs, modern flight navigation and communication equipment including satellite navigation of Russian or foreign origin, fully compliant with NATO and ICAO standards. 

*The MiG-29SMT aircraft features:*

· Longer range and flight endurance;
· High combat effectiveness;
· Superb agility;
· High reliability and flight safety;
· Easy operation and reduced DOC, up-to-date logistic support;
· Advanced architecture of cockpit avionics and information control system, HOTAS;
· Integrated fire-control system consisting of upgraded radar fire-control system built around the ZHUK-ME advanced radar boasting longer operating ranges, multichannel firing and up-to-date air-to-surface modes, and of IR search and track system and helmet-mounted sight;
· Up-to-date navigation, radio communication, electronic countermeasures, monitoring and recording systems as well as optronic and reconnaissance pods;
· Modified weapon system including the RVV-AE, R-27ER1, R-27ET1, R-27R1, R-27T1, R-73E air-to-air missiles, the Kh-31A, Kh-31P, Kh-29T (TE), Kh-29L air-to-surface missiles, the KAB-500KR (OD), KAB-500L guided bombs, rockets, free-fall bombs and the GSh-301 built-in gun.

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## Rokto14

BDforever said:


> guys watch this video of BAF 25 SQN PART I | Facebook


I have seen photos of these aircrafts of BAF shooting missiles. But how is it possible for these jets to carry missiles?



eastwatch said:


> BAF has certainly an ambitious plan for the future induction of more 4/4.5G planes like Mig-29SMT or above. This is why it is talking with Russia to induct about a sq. of YAK-130 training planes. Why should BAF buy training planes to train its pilots to operate 4.5/5G planes, but then will not buy the fighters?
> 
> You are talking about the present status. However, while you are having a static mind, BAF may have a dynamic thinking. Just think, what the military bought during the last three years for the Navy? Think of all the frigates, corvettes, LPCs-M, FACs and many others. How much do you think BN spent on thes goods? We also bought 3 transport helis from the US alonmgwith 20 Rolles Royce engines. Think also of tanks and SAMs.
> 
> How much did we spend? It could be more than $2b. Now, the BN will also induct two submarines, and also two 100m long stealth type 056 corvettes. These are not our last shopping, certainly.
> 
> After the navy is strong enough, BAF will certainly purchase probably more migs and then will buy 5G planes. By this time our pilots will get training with YAK-130 on how to man the 5G planes. We are not a stupid oil rich country where the govt buys new weapons because of US insistence, but the soldiers are not given proper trainings to operate the weapons.
> 
> We will bite only what we can swallow. You are very right to imply that we are a very poor country to afford hifi weapons. But we will buy these from our future money and we cannot afford the luxury of keeping these weapons unwrapped. And, lastly, do not also worry about our source of money. For one, the BoB is full of resources. For the next twenty years we will be spending only a fraction of our wealth that lies beneath there.


I don't think we have to buy more MiGs and we have to switch our concentration from MiGs to Sukhoi or Gripen. But yes should introduce at least 1 squadron of Mig 35s

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## Anubis

BDforever said:


> it is reported that Bangladesh's procurement of equipment about 7 class weapons and equipment, including anti-tank missile Metis-M-1, armored vehicles BTR-80, BTR-80-K automatic grenade launcher AGS-30 transport armored vehicles PP- 91, MTU-90, Yak-130 trainer aircraft, armed transport helicopter Mi -171 SH, GAMA-DE radar, CASTA-2E2 radar.
> 
> Note: Russia agreed to build BTR 80 maintenance plant in Bangladesh so that we can maintenance or upgrade them in Bangladesh.



What about Kornet-E?


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## BDforever

RiasatKhan said:


> What about Kornet-E?



some reports talked about Kornet-E, but last night where i got the news from , it did not talk about it.

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## fatman17

BDforever said:


> you think only EFT/Gripen/Rafale/MiG-35 are 4th generation available ? plz excuse me , i did not know it. i thought there are many other 4th generation available



please let me know, i could be mistaken

"With its 4+ generation competitors EFT/Rafale/Mi-35 clustered in the $60-120+ million range vs. the Gripen&#8217;s claimed $40-60 million"

F-35 is 100m
F-22 is 200m

MiG-29 may also cost in excess of 40m. is MiG-29 4th gen
Su-30MK is 4th gen but in excess of 60m


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## eastwatch

There is a new thread that says BAF has already ordered 4 Su-27SK, 4 Su-27UBK, 8 Mig-29SMT and 16 YAK-130 from Russia under the $1 billion loan on 13th January. Hope, this thread will draw your interests. If the new is true, then BAF is moving to exactly the direction that all of us are predicting.

One more thing. If the number of YAK purchase is really 16 units, it shows BAF wants to induct many more 4/4.5G planes in the near future.

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## BDforever

fatman17 said:


> please let me know, i could be mistaken
> 
> "With its 4+ generation competitors EFT/Rafale/Mi-35 clustered in the $60-120+ million range vs. the Gripen&#8217;s claimed $40-60 million"
> 
> F-35 is 100m
> F-22 is 200m
> 
> MiG-29 may also cost in excess of 40m. is MiG-29 4th gen
> Su-30MK is 4th gen but in excess of 60m



tell us about all 4th generation fights and their price, then i will reply.


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## fatman17

BDforever said:


> tell us about all 4th generation fights and their price, then i will reply.



with such an attitude as yours, sorry i wont.

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## Luftwaffe

eastwatch said:


> There is a new thread that says BAF has already ordered 4 Su-27SK, 4 Su-27UBK, 8 Mig-29SMT and 16 YAK-130 from Russia under the $1 billion loan on 13th January.



Nothing about Sukhoi-27 it would have been mentioned in Janes Defence Weekly.

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## Banglar Lathial

Luftwaffe said:


> There is no realistic Air Threat so far but one must incrementally invest & increase, modernize and head towards modern next generation weaponry.
> 
> 
> My opinion is based upon Tactical Importance does it make sense I leave it to you people.
> 
> *Long Range Ground Radars
> *Medium-High Altitude SAM Systems for Tri Arm.
> *Upgrade Mig-29s add 8 more with good number of weaponry and associated equipment
> *Atleast a single AEW&C based on Chinese Y-8
> *Couple of CN-295 [Naval Asset I suppose Air Force would be first to operate before an Naval Air Arm is established]
> *ALCM Air Lunched Cruise Missiles
> *Land Attack Cruise Missiles and associated Systems
> *Anti Radiation Missiles like Chinese LD-10 or similar Russian origin




There is more than one realistic threat, just not being discussed here because a lot of idiots from that country infest this forum, and the result would be an unending troll fest. 

Many of the items you have listed have already been procured, some of them are yet to be procured (like long range SAM, AEW&C) and some others you have not listed are also being looked into. 

By ALCM, if you mean air launched anti ship missiles, I think the F-7BG1 may be capable of that, though I have to double check. LACM (Land attack cruise missile) is still lacking, though I do not know why it has not yet been procured. Same is true for Anti Radiation missiles. 

BAL even scuppered the deal for Su-27/Su-30 series despite a lot of hullabaloo.

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## Luftwaffe

Banglar Lathial said:


> Many of the items you have listed have already been procured, some of them are yet to be procured (like long range SAM, AEW&C) and some others you have not listed are also being looked into.
> 
> By ALCM, if you mean air launched anti ship missiles, I think the F-7BG1 may be capable of that, though I have to double check. LACM (Land attack cruise missile) is still lacking, though I do not know why it has not yet been procured. Same is true for Anti Radiation missiles.
> 
> BAL even scuppered the deal for Su-27/Su-30 series despite a lot of hullabaloo.



I merely mention a short list but such a list would increase the capabilities multifold. Assess yourself what Land Attack Cruise Missiles can do alone in Numbers not all can be downed by Missile Defense System. You Armed Forces needs smarter weapons/systems.

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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> There is a new thread that says BAF has already ordered 4 Su-27SK, 4 Su-27UBK, 8 Mig-29SMT and 16 YAK-130 from Russia under the $1 billion loan on 13th January. Hope, this thread will draw your interests. If the new is true, then BAF is moving to exactly the direction that all of us are predicting.



Don't believe Wikipedia

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## DURJOY



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## eastwatch

Loki said:


> Don't believe Wikipedia



I know wiki can be edited by any one. But, I wonder why someone without an affliation with the BAF purchasing matter should include imagnary things. How about all other BAF information in the wiki? Are all of the information about existing planes and helis fictitious, too? The way people are talking, it implies that all wiki information is baseless.


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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> I know wiki can be edited by any one. But, I wonder why someone without an affliation with the BAF purchasing matter should include imagnary things. How about all other BAF information in the wiki? Are all of the information about existing planes and helis fictitious, too? The way people are talking, it implies that all wiki information is baseless.



There's something called footnotes for verification.

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## UKBengali

What BD needs is a proper long term plan about what kind of military that it actually wants. 

Then it needs to work out how much this is going to cost and if the country would be willing to pay this.

BD currently spends around 1.5% of GDP on defence and this could easily be increased to the 2.5-3.0% range over the long term without doing much damage to either poverty alleviation or the economy.

BD can afford a strong military over the long-term but it does not seem sure what it really wants.

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## Rokto14

Luftwaffe said:


> Nothing about Sukhoi-27 it would have been mentioned in Janes Defence Weekly.


Is that magazine really that reliable? I have read some of those magazines before but none of them mentioned anything about Bangladesh defense.


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## Rokto14

BDforever said:


> tell us about all 4th generation fights and their price, then i will reply.


Fourth-generation jet fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Anubis

Rokto14 said:


> Is that magazine really that reliable? I have read some of those magazines before but none of them mentioned anything about Bangladesh defense.


It is one of the most reliable source of military information in the world.

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## Luftwaffe

Rokto14 said:


> Is that magazine really that reliable? I have read some of those magazines before but none of them mentioned anything about Bangladesh defense.



I can list you two-three more reliable renowned sources non mentioned since Jan 2013 up till now.


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## BDforever

fatman17 said:


> with such an attitude as yours, sorry i wont.



J10, J11 , Su 27 are also 4th generation available , Su27SKM will be good choice, check that out

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## BDforever

*Bangladesh Plans to Buy 24 Russian Jet Trainers*

LANGKAWI (Malaysia), March 27 (RIA Novosti) - Bangladesh is planning to buy 24 Yak-130 Mitten jet trainers on $1 billion credit from Russia, Russia&#8217;s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Wednesday.

&#8220;Bangladesh has a whole list of arms it wants, but so far that is a state secret. I will reveal one little secret: The purchase of Yak-130 warplanes is a very significant subject of negotiations between Russia and Bangladesh,&#8221; Rosoboronexport Deputy Chief Viktor Komardin said at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition (LIMA-2013) that opened in Malaysia on Tuesday.

He added that negotiations on Yak-130s are due to begin later this spring.

Russia granted Bangladesh a $1 billion credit during the Bangladeshi prime minister&#8217;s visit to Moscow in January.

Some 20 Russian companies are taking part in LIMA-2013, which has been held since 1991, including top aircraft manufacturers and the state-owned United Industrial Corporation (Oboronprom), which produces helicopters, aircraft engines and air defense systems.

The Yak-130 is a highly maneuverable aircraft with an extended range of about 2,000 kilometers (1,250 miles) and a maximum speed of 1,060 kilometers per hour (600 miles per hour) in level flight. It can carry a combat payload of up to 3,000 kilograms (6,600 pounds).

The Yak-130 has been chosen as a basic aircraft for Russian Air Force pilot training. First deliveries began in 2009.

source: Bangladesh Plans to Buy 24 Russian Jet Trainers | World | RIA Novosti


NOTE: I saw that 1 day ago in wiki but i did not believe it , so studied over the net on it and got this

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## Porbot

BDforever said:


> *Bangladesh Plans to Buy 24 Russian Jet Trainers*
> 
> LANGKAWI (Malaysia), March 27 (RIA Novosti) - Bangladesh is planning to buy 24 Yak-130 Mitten jet trainers on $1 billion credit from Russia, Russias state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Wednesday.
> 
> Bangladesh has a whole list of arms it wants, but so far that is a state secret. I will reveal one little secret: The purchase of Yak-130 warplanes is a very significant subject of negotiations between Russia and Bangladesh, Rosoboronexport Deputy Chief Viktor Komardin said at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition (LIMA-2013) that opened in Malaysia on Tuesday.
> 
> He added that negotiations on Yak-130s are due to begin later this spring.
> 
> Russia granted Bangladesh a $1 billion credit during the Bangladeshi prime ministers visit to Moscow in January.
> 
> Some 20 Russian companies are taking part in LIMA-2013, which has been held since 1991, including top aircraft manufacturers and the state-owned United Industrial Corporation (Oboronprom), which produces helicopters, aircraft engines and air defense systems.
> 
> The Yak-130 is a highly maneuverable aircraft with an extended range of about 2,000 kilometers (1,250 miles) and a maximum speed of 1,060 kilometers per hour (600 miles per hour) in level flight. It can carry a combat payload of up to 3,000 kilograms (6,600 pounds).
> 
> The Yak-130 has been chosen as a basic aircraft for Russian Air Force pilot training. First deliveries began in 2009.
> 
> source: Bangladesh Plans to Buy 24 Russian Jet Trainers | World | RIA Novosti
> 
> 
> NOTE: I saw that 1 day ago in wiki but i did not believe it , so studied over the net on it and got this






Whooaaaa 

mashallah alhamdulillah good news!

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## UKBengali

Hopefully this is true and the SU-30 comes to BD.

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## Porbot

UKBengali said:


> Hopefully this is true and the SU-30 comes to BD.



and In Sha Allah in the coming Khaleda's time J-10B

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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Hopefully this is true and the SU-30 comes to BD.



according to wiki bangladesh is buying 8 more Mig 29SMT (do not know much about it) and 8 Su27 SK and UBK ( My 6th sense saying that it can be true, they will be upgraded to Su 27 SKM in Bangladesh with Russian help as we are doing currently with some arms equipment, it will be like win-win situation for Su27 case)

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## eastwatch

It is a welcome news. But, I wonder about the number of purchas of YAK-130 training planes. Is not 24 units a little too big? Sometimes I read 10 and 16 units, but this report says of 24 units. If true, ther is no doubt that BAF will purchase a large number of 4G+ planes in the near future, probably in a few steps. What you people think about this?

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## eastwatch

Porbot said:


> and In Sha Allah in the coming Khaleda's time J-10B



Can you just tell us what planes BKZ purchased in her last two terms in the office? We should not be blind about at least military purchasing matters. Please check the reality. However, I hope BKZ will uderstand the necessity of weapons induction next time she is in power, and whichever party is in power it should not put hindrance at military purchases or start filing corruption cases against former purchses.

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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> It is a welcome news. But, I wonder about the number of purchas of YAK-130 training planes. Is not 24 units a little too big? Sometimes I read 10 and 16 units, but this report says of 24 units. If true, ther is no doubt that BAF will purchase a large number of 4G+ planes in the near future, probably in a few steps. What you people think about this?



Su27 SKM, J10B, Mig 29M2 and Mig35 probable candidates ..

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## UKBengali

eastwatch said:


> It is a welcome news. But, I wonder about the number of purchas of YAK-130 training planes. Is not 24 units a little too big? Sometimes I read 10 and 16 units, but this report says of 24 units. If true, ther is no doubt that BAF will purchase a large number of 4G+ planes in the near future, probably in a few steps. What you people think about this?



24 units for 1 billion dollars does not make sense when you consider that each Yak-130 costs around 15 millions dollars.

My personal opinion is that we will see 16 Yak-130 and at least 8 SU-27/30 aircraft purchased this year.

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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> 24 units for 1 billion dollars does not make sense when you consider that each Yak-130 costs around 15 millions dollars.
> 
> My personal opinion is that we will see 16 Yak-130 and at least 8 SU-27/30 aircraft purchased this year.



remember we are actually paying around $1.04 billion


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## Porbot

UKBengali said:


> 24 units for 1 billion dollars does not make sense when you consider that each Yak-130 costs around 15 millions dollars.
> 
> My personal opinion is that we will see 16 Yak-130 and at least 8 SU-27/30 aircraft purchased this year.



It doesn't say 24 for 1 billion. the whole package is 1 billion, I assume, including other military thingis.



eastwatch said:


> Can you just tell us what planes BKZ purchased in her last two terms in the office? We should not be blind about at least military purchasing matters. Please check the reality. However, I hope BKZ will uderstand the necessity of weapons induction next time she is in power, and whichever party is in power it should not put hindrance at military purchases or start filing corruption cases against former purchses.



I don't know the first term but in the second term I think she only bought 16 F-7BG.

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## eastwatch

Porbot said:


> It doesn't say 24 for 1 billion. the whole package is 1 billion, I assume, including other military thingis.



You are correct. The entire loan is $1 billion, and the 24 Yak-130 certainly does not cost $1 billion, and I also do not belive the number should be so high. It is like purchasing 10 carts and then buying 2 horses. If BAF really buys 20 YAK, then where is the money to buy the fighters and APCs? 

I think, BAF and BA are conducting hard negotiation with the Russian manufacturers before they finalize the prices, and specify the merchandises and make order for a definite purchase. In a few previous news reports the PM openly told about a few items, but, then she stopped short of divulging the names of all the items, saying these are top military sectrets.

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## Rokto14

BDforever said:


> according to wiki bangladesh is buying 8 more Mig 29SMT (do not know much about it) and 8 Su27 SK and UBK ( My 6th sense saying that it can be true, they will be upgraded to Su 27 SKM in Bangladesh with Russian help as we are doing currently with some arms equipment, it will be like win-win situation for Su27 case)


So is BAF trying to obtain a all Russian fleet? But it sounds good to me

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## Zabaniyah

This bird may look ugly on the ground, but when it flies, it is truly majestic. Especially when the photo is taken from DAT particular position  






Missiles are R-27 and R-73

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## Rokto14

BDforever said:


> *Bangladesh Plans to Buy 24 Russian Jet Trainers*
> 
> LANGKAWI (Malaysia), March 27 (RIA Novosti) - Bangladesh is planning to buy 24 Yak-130 Mitten jet trainers on $1 billion credit from Russia, Russia&#8217;s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Wednesday.
> 
> &#8220;Bangladesh has a whole list of arms it wants, but so far that is a state secret. I will reveal one little secret: The purchase of Yak-130 warplanes is a very significant subject of negotiations between Russia and Bangladesh,&#8221; Rosoboronexport Deputy Chief Viktor Komardin said at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition (LIMA-2013) that opened in Malaysia on Tuesday.
> 
> He added that negotiations on Yak-130s are due to begin later this spring.
> 
> Russia granted Bangladesh a $1 billion credit during the Bangladeshi prime minister&#8217;s visit to Moscow in January.
> 
> Some 20 Russian companies are taking part in LIMA-2013, which has been held since 1991, including top aircraft manufacturers and the state-owned United Industrial Corporation (Oboronprom), which produces helicopters, aircraft engines and air defense systems.
> 
> The Yak-130 is a highly maneuverable aircraft with an extended range of about 2,000 kilometers (1,250 miles) and a maximum speed of 1,060 kilometers per hour (600 miles per hour) in level flight. It can carry a combat payload of up to 3,000 kilograms (6,600 pounds).
> 
> The Yak-130 has been chosen as a basic aircraft for Russian Air Force pilot training. First deliveries began in 2009.
> 
> source: Bangladesh Plans to Buy 24 Russian Jet Trainers | World | RIA Novosti
> 
> 
> NOTE: I saw that 1 day ago in wiki but i did not believe it , so studied over the net on it and got this


I have a question in mind, if we buy 24 YAK 130, can BAF convert 16 YAK 130(which is 1 squadron) to fighter jets and use the other 8 to use as trainers?


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## eastwatch

Porbot said:


> It doesn't say 24 for 1 billion. the whole package is 1 billion, I assume, including other military thingis.
> 
> I don't know the first term but in the second term I think she only bought 16 F-7BG.



Yes, I have checked the purchase matter. The purchasing of F-7BGs was made during the last year of her 2nd term, in 2006. I hope, she already understands the aspirations of both the military and other patriotic people of BD that they want a militarily strong Bangladesh, and not just a few anti-India hollow rhetorics from her. So, BKZ should heed to these aspirations next time she is in power.

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## Zarvan

eastwatch said:


> Yes, I have checked the purchase matter. The purchasing of F-7BGs was made during the last year of her 2nd term, in 2006. I hope, she already understands the aspirations of both the military and other patriotic people of BD that they want a militarily strong Bangladesh, and not just a few anti-India hollow rhetorics from her. So, BKZ should heed to these aspirations next time she is in power.



Bangladesh can never trust India and to at least defend themselves they need to have at least 300 to 350 4.5 generation planes along with very strong army and Navy

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## ejaz007

Zarvan said:


> Bangladesh can never trust India and to at least defend themselves they need to have at least 300 to 350 4.5 generation planes along with very strong army and Navy



If my knowledge is correct BAF has 6 operational bases. Stationing 300 fighters at 6 bases does not seem militarily correct especially when the air bases are not well protected.

Also maintaining 300-350 aircraft might be beyond BAF resources.

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## Zarvan

ejaz007 said:


> If my knowledge is correct BAF has 6 operational bases. Stationing 300 fighters at 6 bases does not seem militarily correct especially when the air bases are not well protected.
> 
> Also maintaining 300-350 aircraft might be beyond BAF resources.


sir they will have to develop sources otherwise they are sitting ducks and even smaller countries will start messing with them

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## eastwatch

Zarvan said:


> sir they will have to develop sources otherwise they are sitting ducks and even smaller countries will start messing with them



BD has a small land area to protect from enemy bombardments. So, BAF has adopted a policy of placing mobile SAMs that will protect vital assets such as cantonements, cities, air-bases, airports, bridges, industries, tank formations etc. from enemy attack. It has already been about six months when BAF inducted the first few batteries of SAMs, but then, as usual, has no more divulged infomation on new purchase. But, there are reasons to believe it has inducted many more since then.

Only yesterday, I have read somewhere in a post sent by someone else whereby the PM talked about the induction of medium range SAMs, too. But, the SAM types are not known. In the immediate future BAF will certainly purchase also long-range SAMs.

Why do you guys are predcting a doom's day for BD? Where do you find enemy countries who will attack BD tomorrow so that we need 300 planes? We are not that vulnerable, at least not now, because we maintain peaceful relationship with our neighbours. Once there are findings of oil ad gas in the BoB there might be some changes in their attitudes if we do not get ourselves ready. So, by the next few years BAF may raise its arsenal of planes to probably 9 sqs or 144 units of 3.5+, and 4+ generation planes.


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## hurt

FC-1





JH-7A




J-10A/B








J-31

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## PlanetSoldier

Rokto14 said:


> I have a question in mind, if we buy 24 YAK 130, can BAF convert 16 YAK 130(which is 1 squadron) to fighter jets and use the other 8 to use as trainers?



So far I remember Yak is convertible as fighter which may act almost as Mig-29 at war time. Radar is plugable and also it will be able to carry weapons. So, all 24 can act as fighters whenever necessary .

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## PlanetSoldier

ejaz007 said:


> If my knowledge is correct BAF has 6 operational bases. Stationing 300 fighters at 6 bases does not seem militarily correct especially when the air bases are not well protected.
> 
> Also maintaining 300-350 aircraft might be beyond BAF resources.



Yeah...might be. We started our navy back in 72 with one boat donated by india, now look at our navy. Similarly we started our air force with some crap back then, it now maintains 160 fighters. Once we might be able to house 400 4/4.5 gens fighters as well.

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## Zabaniyah

Rokto14 said:


> I have a question in mind, if we buy 24 YAK 130, can BAF convert 16 YAK 130(which is 1 squadron) to fighter jets and use the other 8 to use as trainers?



Yak-130 is a combat trainer with close air support capabilities. So yes, it does have some combat capability. 

BAF is retiring its aging A-5's soon, and replace them with these. Having a common trainer platform as opposed to operating multiple platforms is a rational decision. 

Here are Yak's armaments:




The first series-configuration Yak-130 and its weapon: R-73 air-to-air missiles, B-13L rocket pod and KAB-500Kr guided bomb (under the wing); RVV-AE air-to-air missile, B-8M1 rocket pod, Kh-25M air-to-surface misile, free fall bomb and UPK-23-250 gun pod (on the ground, right to left).
Source: A.S.Yakovlev Design Bureau &ndash;:&ndash; company &ndash;:&ndash; publications &ndash;:&ndash; articles

The Yak can also surprisingly fire Western munitions too! 


> The Yak-130 combat trainer can simulate the tactics of different combat aircraft. There is one centreline fuselage hardpoint and the number of wing hardpoints for the suspension of weapons payloads has been increased to eight with six underwing and two wingtip points, increasing the combat payload weight to 3,000kg.
> 
> The aircraft can carry weapons, suspended fuel tanks, reconnaissance pods and a range of electronic warfare pods including radar jammers and infrared countermeasures.
> 
> An open architecture avionics suite installed on the Yak-130 allows a wide range of western weapon systems and guided missiles to be integrated including the AIM-9L Sidewinder, Magic 2 and the AGM-65 Maverick.
> 
> Weapons fits include the Vikhr laser-guided missile, R-73 infrared-guided air-to-air missiles (Nato designation AA-11 Archer) and the Kh-25 ML (Nato designation AS-10 Karen) air-to-surface laser-guided missile. A Platan electro-optical guidance pod is installed under the fuselage for deployment of the KAB-500Kr guided bomb.
> 
> The aircraft is fitted with a 30mm GSh-301 cannon or a podded GSh-23 cannon installed under the fuselage. It can also deploy unguided B-8M and B-18 rockets, 250kg and 50kg bombs and cluster bombs.


Yak-130 Combat Trainer - Airforce Technology



Guided air-to-air missile...........................R-73 (Russian) Aim-9, Magic (Western)
Guided air-to-surface missile....................H-25 (Russian) AGM-65 (Western)
Pods with dart 57 mm missiles.................UB-32 (Russian) AL-25-50, LAU-51 (Western)
Bombs of 250-500 kg caliber....................FAB (Russian) Mk82, Mk83, SAMP-25 (Western)
Cluster munition.......................................RBK-500 (Russian) BL 755 (Western)
Laser-guided bombs.................................KAB-500 (Russian) Rockeye II (Western)
Gun pod....................................................GSh-23 (Russian) DEFA, Aden (Western)
Drop fuel tanks
Pod with laser-TV guidance system

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## Zabaniyah

Another great shot of BAF MiG-29:

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## Zabaniyah



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## Zabaniyah



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## Zabaniyah

Interesting, this Yak can be programmed to simulate both Russian and non-Russian 4th and 5th generation planes.

Can simulate the following aircraft:

Su-27
Su-30
MiG-29
F-15
F-16
F-18
F-35
Mirage
Rafale
And of-course, the Su-35, and PAK-FA/FGFA. The video above was made back in 2005.

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## mb444

Loki said:


> Interesting, this Yak can be programmed to simulate both Russian and non-Russian 4th and 5th generation planes.
> 
> Can simulate the following aircraft:
> 
> Su-27
> Su-30
> MiG-29
> F-15
> F-16
> F-18
> F-35
> Mirage
> Rafale
> And of-course, the Su-35, and PAK-FA/FGFA. The video above was made back in 2005.




Dude for information purposes..... How does the plane simulate other planes? Do you just select a program from a list?



Porbot said:


> and In Sha Allah in the coming Khaleda's time J-10B



Are they available for sale yet? I believe they come with Russian or Chinese engines. Is the latter engine fully ready and tested yet

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## kalu_miah

mb444 said:


> Dude for information purposes..... How does the plane simulate other planes? Do you just select a program from a list?
> 
> Are they available for sale yet? I believe they come with Russian or Chinese engines. Is the latter engine fully ready and tested yet



We had a discussion on the current and future status of Chinese fighter plane engines and what may be available for Bangladesh in these threads:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...illion-domestic-jet-engine-plan-xinhua-3.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/239099-future-we-should-get-gripen-ng-our-af-27.html

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## Rokto14

PlanetSoldier said:


> So far I remember Yak is convertible as fighter which may act almost as Mig-29 at war time. Radar is plugable and also it will be able to carry weapons. So, all 24 can act as fighters whenever necessary .



Then what about like after a significant number of pilots has got trained, have at least 1 squadron of YAK 130?



hurt said:


> FC-1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JH-7A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-10A/B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-31


They look more like a copy of fusion of sukhoi 30 and F16

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## hurt

Loki said:


> Yak-130 is a combat trainer with close air support capabilities. So yes, it does have some combat capability.



Hongdu L-15
higher speed and more agility

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 12.27 m ()
Wingspan: 9.48 m ()
Height: 4.81 m ()
Empty weight: 4.96 t (6.5 t)
Max. takeoff weight: 9.5 t ()
Powerplant: 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.4
Combat radius: Over 550+ km ()
Ferry range: 3,100 km ()
Service ceiling: 16,000 m ()
Rate of climb: >200 m/s (afterburning) 










Guizhou JL-9
Cheaper,highest speed
General characteristics




Crew: 2
Length: 14.55 m (47 ft 8.83 in)
Wingspan: 8.32 m (27 ft 3.55 in)
Height: 4.1 m (13 ft 5.41 in)
Empty weight: 4.96 t (10,935 lb)
Loaded weight: 7.8 t (17,196 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 9.8 t (21,605 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Guizhou Liyang WP-13F(C) afterburning turbojet
Dry thrust: 44.1 kN (9,914 lb)
Thrust with afterburner: 66.7 kN (14,650 lb)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2[10]
Cruise speed: Mach 1.6[citation needed]
Range: 2 500 km (1,553 mi)
Service ceiling: 16,000 m (52493 ft)
Rate of climb: 260 m/s ()
Thrust/weight: 0.85
Armament

Guns: 1×Type 23-1 23 mm cannon
Hardpoints: 5
Missiles:
Air-to-air: various short and possibly medium-ranged air-to-air missiles
Air-to-ground: various
Bombs: various guided and unguided bombs and rockets
Avionics
FIAR Grifo S7 pulse-doppler radar

Hongdu JL-8
Cheapest 




General characteristics

Crew: 2 (in tandem)
Length: 11.6 m (38 ft 0 in)
Wingspan: 9.63 m (31 ft 7 in)
Height: 4.21 m (13 ft 9 in)
Empty weight: 2,687 kg (5,924 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 4,330 kg (9,546 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan, 16.01 kN (3,600 lb)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 0.75 (800 km/h, 498 mph)
Range: 2,250 km (1,398 mi)
Service ceiling: 13,000 m (42,651 ft)
Wing loading: 254.40 kg m-2 ()


Max. airframe load factor: +7.33 g / -3.0 g
Armament

Guns: 1× 23 mm cannon pod (mounted on centreline hardpoint)
Hardpoints: 5, total capacity 1,000 kg (2,205 lb) external fuel and ordnance:
4× under-wing, capacity 250 kg each
1× under-fuselage (23 mm cannon pod mount)
Rockets: 57 mm unguided rocket pods, capacity 24 rounds (2 x pods with 12 rounds each)
Air-to-air missiles: PL-5, PL-7
Bombs: 200 kg, 250 kg unguided bomb, BL755 cluster bomb
Others:
2× 80 gal fuel drop-tanks mounted on outboard under-wing hardpoints

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## BDforever

hurt said:


> Hongdu L-15
> higher speed and more agility
> 
> General characteristics
> 
> Crew: 2
> Length: 12.27 m ()
> Wingspan: 9.48 m ()
> Height: 4.81 m ()
> Empty weight: 4.96 t (6.5 t)
> Max. takeoff weight: 9.5 t ()
> Powerplant: 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans
> Performance
> 
> Maximum speed: Mach 1.4
> Combat radius: Over 550+ km ()
> Ferry range: 3,100 km ()
> Service ceiling: 16,000 m ()
> Rate of climb: >200 m/s (afterburning)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guizhou JL-9
> Cheaper,highest speed
> General characteristics
> 
> Crew: 2
> Length: 14.55 m (47 ft 8.83 in)
> Wingspan: 8.32 m (27 ft 3.55 in)
> Height: 4.1 m (13 ft 5.41 in)
> Empty weight: 4.96 t (10,935 lb)
> Loaded weight: 7.8 t (17,196 lb)
> Max. takeoff weight: 9.8 t (21,605 lb)
> Powerplant: 1 × Guizhou Liyang WP-13F(C) afterburning turbojet
> Dry thrust: 44.1 kN (9,914 lb)
> Thrust with afterburner: 66.7 kN (14,650 lb)
> Performance
> 
> Maximum speed: Mach 2[10]
> Cruise speed: Mach 1.6[citation needed]
> Range: 2 500 km (1,553 mi)
> Service ceiling: 16,000 m (52493 ft)
> Rate of climb: 260 m/s ()
> Thrust/weight: 0.85
> Armament
> 
> Guns: 1×Type 23-1 23 mm cannon
> Hardpoints: 5
> Missiles:
> Air-to-air: various short and possibly medium-ranged air-to-air missiles
> Air-to-ground: various
> Bombs: various guided and unguided bombs and rockets
> Avionics
> FIAR Grifo S7 pulse-doppler radar
> 
> Hongdu JL-8
> Cheapest
> General characteristics
> 
> Crew: 2 (in tandem)
> Length: 11.6 m (38 ft 0 in)
> Wingspan: 9.63 m (31 ft 7 in)
> Height: 4.21 m (13 ft 9 in)
> Empty weight: 2,687 kg (5,924 lb)
> Max. takeoff weight: 4,330 kg (9,546 lb)
> Powerplant: 1 × Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan, 16.01 kN (3,600 lb)
> Performance
> 
> Maximum speed: Mach 0.75 (800 km/h, 498 mph)
> Range: 2,250 km (1,398 mi)
> Service ceiling: 13,000 m (42,651 ft)
> Wing loading: 254.40 kg m-2 ()
> 
> 
> Max. airframe load factor: +7.33 g / -3.0 g
> Armament
> 
> Guns: 1× 23 mm cannon pod (mounted on centreline hardpoint)
> Hardpoints: 5, total capacity 1,000 kg (2,205 lb) external fuel and ordnance:
> 4× under-wing, capacity 250 kg each
> 1× under-fuselage (23 mm cannon pod mount)
> Rockets: 57 mm unguided rocket pods, capacity 24 rounds (2 x pods with 12 rounds each)
> Air-to-air missiles: PL-5, PL-7
> Bombs: 200 kg, 250 kg unguided bomb, BL755 cluster bomb
> Others:
> 2× 80 gal fuel drop-tanks mounted on outboard under-wing hardpoints



1.L-15 , still prototype 
2. JL-9 has very good configurations and performance only lacks in hard points (5 hard points while yak 130 has 9 hard points), is it available for export ? what is its price ?
3. yak 130 is better than Hongdu JL-8


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## hurt

Rokto14 said:


> Then what about like after a significant number of pilots has got trained, have at least 1 squadron of YAK 130?
> 
> 
> They look more like a copy of fusion of sukhoi 30 and F16



copy ?Plz look at sukhoi 30 and F16 again.

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## hurt

BDforever said:


> 1.L-15 , still prototype
> 2. JL-9 has very good configurations and performance only lacks in hard points (5 hard points while yak 130 has 9 hard points), is it available for export ? what is its price ?
> 3. yak 130 is better than Hongdu JL-8



1 The first batch 12 L-15s complete in end of 2013 for a Foreign customer&#12290;I dont know when you get fist yak 130.

2 it is available for export, less than 8 million.

3 one Yak-130 cost can buy three K-8

Yak-130 is nice trainer,but not the only one.

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## Rokto14

hurt said:


> 1 The first batch 12 L-15s complete in end of 2013 for a Foreign customer&#12290;I dont know when you get fist yak 130.
> 
> 2 it is available for export, less than 8 million.
> 
> 3 one Yak-130 cost can buy three K-8


You mean L-15s are 8 million each???

Does BAF really has a need to get AEW&C like Australian, Indian, Russian air forces?


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## hurt

Rokto14 said:


> You mean L-15s are 8 million each???
> 
> Does BAF really has a need to get AEW&C like Australian, Indian, Russian air forces?



No,JL-9 /FTC-2000 are 8 million each.

L-15 cost close Yak-130,14 million each.
but it can training Supersonic flight &#65292;Yak-130 cant.

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## BDforever

hurt said:


> 1 The first batch 12 L-15s complete in end of 2013 for a Foreign customer&#12290;I dont know when you get fist yak 130.
> 
> 2 it is available for export, less than 8 million.
> 
> 3 one Yak-130 cost can buy three K-8
> 
> Yak-130 is nice trainer,but not the only one.



1 yak 130 = $15 million, so k-8= $5 million ?
2. Bangladesh should go for 1 squadron L-15 or JL-9 if China agrees to sell J1X category aircraft to Bangladesh



Rokto14 said:


> Does BAF really has a need to get AEW&C like Australian, Indian, Russian air forces?



BAF does not need it because Bangladesh air space is small , big countries need AEW&C.

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## hurt

BDforever said:


> 1 yak 130 = $15 million, so k-8= $5 million ?
> 2. Bangladesh should go for 1 squadron L-15 or JL-9 if China agrees to sell J1X category aircraft to Bangladesh



1 Yes, K-8 now can sell as Civilian aircraft.but it not powerful attack like Yak-130 and JL-15.
2 If you want

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## BDforever

hurt said:


> 1 Yes, K-8 now can sell as Civilian aircraft.but it not powerful attack like Yak-130 and JL-15.
> 2 If you want



1. out then 
2. BAF asked Chinese gov. to sell J10 aircraft but Chinese gov. did not response, so BAF went for alternative


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## hurt

BDforever said:


> 1. out then
> 2. BAF asked Chinese gov. to sell J10 aircraft but Chinese gov. did not response, so BAF went for alternative



1 BAF&#12288;&#65358;&#65349;&#65349;&#65348;&#12288;&#65357;&#65359;&#65362;&#65349;&#12288;&#65364;&#65369;&#65360;&#65349;&#12288;train&#65349;&#65362;&#65292;&#65356;&#65353;&#65355;&#65349;&#12288;JL-7, k-8 to Different levels of training

2 It is problem of Engine ,J-10 use AL31F now ,we cant export J-10 with AL31F because Russian Opposition.
If we cant sell J-10 to you ,you will choose russian fighter.This is a business competition&#12290;
There is no same problem in Pakistan&#65292;because Pakistan never interested in russian fighter.

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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> BAF does not need it because Bangladesh air space is small , big countries need AEW&C.



BVR capable planes' BVR missiles are (almost) useless unless the plane's radars are fed with information on the exact location (X, Y and Z) of an enemy plane in the sky. This is what the function of an AEW&C is at the high sky. However, even with AWE&C it is very difficult for a most sophisticated BVR capable plane to make a killing if the enemy pilot is duly trained. An enemy plane's radar immediately signals that the plane has been locked for a BVR missile firing by the counterpart. 

A good evasive manuevering by a highly skilled pilot will save his plane. The post 2nd WWll war records show the percentage of killing by BVR missiles is much much lower than the heat seeking missiles as well as gunfires. There will be less and less number of killings if the BAF planes are not supported by the AWE&C planes. So, BAF certainly needs it.

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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> BVR capable planes' BVR missiles are (almost) useless unless the plane's radars are fed with information on the exact location (X, Y and Z) of an enemy plane in the sky. This is what the function of an AEW&C is at the high sky. However, even with AWE&C it is very difficult for a most sophisticated BVR capable plane to make a killing if the enemy pilot is duly trained. An enemy plane's radar immediately signals that the plane has been locked for a BVR missile firing by the counterpart.
> 
> A good evasive manuevering by a highly skilled pilot will save his plane. The post 2nd WWll war records show the percentage of killing by BVR missiles is much much lower than the heat seeking missiles as well as gunfires. There will be less and less number of killings if the BAF planes are not supported by the AWE&C planes. So, BAF certainly needs it.


it depends , if you are in offensive mode and you are away from own country, you need AWE&C but within own country you do not it, air defence system provides it. And we are not in Offensive mode, we are in defensive mode


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## Zarvan

eastwatch said:


> BD has a small land area to protect from enemy bombardments. So, BAF has adopted a policy of placing mobile SAMs that will protect vital assets such as cantonements, cities, air-bases, airports, bridges, industries, tank formations etc. from enemy attack. It has already been about six months when BAF inducted the first few batteries of SAMs, but then, as usual, has no more divulged infomation on new purchase. But, there are reasons to believe it has inducted many more since then.
> 
> Only yesterday, I have read somewhere in a post sent by someone else whereby the PM talked about the induction of medium range SAMs, too. But, the SAM types are not known. In the immediate future BAF will certainly purchase also long-range SAMs.
> 
> Why do you guys are predcting a doom's day for BD? Where do you find enemy countries who will attack BD tomorrow so that we need 300 planes? We are not that vulnerable, at least not now, because we maintain peaceful relationship with our neighbours. Once there are findings of oil ad gas in the BoB there might be some changes in their attitudes if we do not get ourselves ready. So, by the next few years BAF may raise its arsenal of planes to probably 9 sqs or 144 units of 3.5+, and 4+ generation planes.



Sir region in which we are in you will not even know where the attack came from and if you think you will have peace with India always than you are fooling your self Mr 300 Planes with the country like you and population like you are must Sir and those fighter planes should not be less than 4.5 Generation

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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> it depends , if you are in offensive mode and you are away from own country, you need AWE&C but within own country you do not it, air defence system provides it. And we are not in Offensive mode, we are in defensive mode



Even a small and defensive country like BD needs AWE&C/AWAC system. AWACs are needed to keep on spying on the movements of enemy planes, its air bases, tank/artillery movements etc. from a high sky. Enemy air bases are not just at the other side of the border, but, at times, are a few hundred km away from the border. So, only a high altitude AWAC can keep on watching over their military activities. AWAC is not only for war time, but also for peace time. Since BD is surrounded by two hostile countries, so, in order to avert a surprise attack by any of these countries, it is necessary that BAF purchases one or two AWAC planes after a few years from now. AWACs give an early warning to the ground-based air defence system. A surprise attack can be blunted only with AWACs.

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## hurt

Why you want buy Su-30?

A AWE lead 15 JF-17s powerful than 10 Su-30s for small and defensive country.

Su-30 Advantages are long Range and Load Ability &#65292;useful for you ?

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## TopCat

hurt said:


> Why you want buy Su-30?
> 
> A AWE lead 15 JF-17s powerful than 10 Su-30s for small and defensive country.
> 
> Su-30 Advantages are long Range and Load Ability &#65292;useful for you ?



When Myanmar or India bomb our capital, dont you think we should send couple of our plane to bomb them back??

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## hurt

iajdani said:


> When Myanmar or India bomb our capital, dont you think we should send couple of our plane to bomb them back??



I dont think &#65345;&#65358;&#65369;&#12288;&#65314;&#65313;&#65318;&#12288;&#65350;&#65353;&#65351;&#65352;&#65364;&#65349;&#65362;&#12288;can fly to New Delhi without F22 or J20&#65294;
&#65353;&#65350;&#12288;&#65369;&#65359;&#65365;&#12288;&#65352;&#65345;&#65366;&#65349;&#12288;Ability to kill any figher Invasion you sky,they cant do anything.

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## TopCat

hurt said:


> I dont think &#65345;&#65358;&#65369;&#12288;&#65314;&#65313;&#65318;&#12288;&#65350;&#65353;&#65351;&#65352;&#65364;&#65349;&#65362;&#12288;can fly to New Delhi without F22 or J20&#65294;
> &#65353;&#65350;&#12288;&#65369;&#65359;&#65365;&#12288;&#65352;&#65345;&#65366;&#65349;&#12288;Ability to kill any figher Invasion you sky,they cant do anything.



What about Chinese Flankers??? Can they?


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## hurt

iajdani said:


> What about Chinese Flankers??? Can they?



PLAAF have enough power to eliminate IAF, but we cant to bomb New Delhi without a big loss.
The reasons that we can do it not only we have great power and lots of fighers, the Important reason is new Delhi too near to us,we only need 5-10min fly in indian sky and we have best topography.

If we must do it ,we maybe by Cruise missile &#65292;Indian anti-air missile and IAF&#12288;are not toys.

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## Zabaniyah

mb444 said:


> Dude for information purposes..... How does the plane simulate other planes? Do you just select a program from a list?



I believe so. It also comes with a ground-based information system for training programs. Just watch the second youtube video. Though old (2005) it is very informative.

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## MST

Bangladesh should seriously consider buying 100 F 35. Purchase of any 4th gen fighter will be a waste of money since you can never match India in numbers or quality of 4th gen aircrafts. Only a stealth fighter will ensure BAF domination over India and Myanmar.


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## Zabaniyah

MST said:


> Bangladesh should seriously consider buying 100 F 35. Purchase of any 4th gen fighter will be a waste of money since you can never match India in numbers or quality of 4th gen aircrafts. Only a stealth fighter will ensure BAF domination over India and Myanmar.



^^^Quoted for truth...

Some folks maybe interested in having a look at this thread  
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/240511-why-su-35-wouldnt-pose-any-serious-threat-indias-rafale-8.html

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## hurt

MST said:


> Bangladesh should seriously consider buying 100 F 35. Purchase of any 4th gen fighter will be a waste of money since you can never match India in numbers or quality of 4th gen aircrafts. Only a stealth fighter will ensure BAF domination over India and Myanmar.



$107 million unit without missiles. 
As a bulky one meybe cant fight with FGFA.

4th gen aircrafts can break you out of Bangladesh sky.

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## MST

Loki said:


> ^^^Quoted for truth...
> 
> Some folks maybe interested in having a look at this thread
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/240511-why-su-35-wouldnt-pose-any-serious-threat-indias-rafale-8.html



I don't want to be a troll but this is the reality. Forget about IAF for a second. Considering the fact that North East India has some most dense deployment of SAM batteries with much more to come thanks to the China threat, I see no change in hell for a 4th generation BAF fighter to get even 25 KM inside Indian border without being shot down.

The only chance you have to reach even Kolkata and bomb it is a 5th Gen Stealth fighter.


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## Zabaniyah

hurt said:


> $107 million unit without missiles. Are you have 10.7 billions budget?
> As a bulky one meybe cant fight with FGFA



Low observable aircraft, superior avionics, superior radar are the way to the future. 

Apart from that, there are many other ways for Bangladesh to move upwards. As someone rightly said: "It's the economy, stupid."

By the way, how do you think the J-31 measures up to the F-35 and others? I understand China intends to market that plane mainly for export.



MST said:


> I don't want to be a troll but this is the reality. Forget about IAF for a second. Considering the fact that North East India has some most dense deployment of SAM batteries with much more to come thanks to the China threat, I see no change in hell for a 4th generation BAF fighter to get even 25 KM inside Indian border without being shot down.
> 
> The only chance you have to reach even Kolkata and bomb it is a 5th Gen Stealth fighter.



Well, I didn't say you were wrong

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## MST

hurt said:


> $107 million unit without missiles. Are you have 10.7 billions budget?
> As a bulky one meybe cant fight with FGFA



Lets forget about money for a sec and talk about what is the BAF's objectives and what assets will enable them to get their goals.

As far as money is concerned I am sure Uncle Sam will be happy to offer some generous loans to BAF



Loki said:


> Well, I didn't say you were wrong



Now since you are a mod I have to be careful lest you ban me


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## hurt

MST said:


> Lets forget about money for a sec and talk about what is the BAF's objectives and what assets will enable them to get their goals.
> 
> As far as money is concerned I am sure Uncle Sam will be happy to offer some generous loans to BAF



They do not need to bomb india,let invaders out his sky is enough

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## MST

hurt said:


> They do not need to bomb india,let invaders out his sky is enough



Fighting a defensive war inside their own country for a small nation like Bangladesh is a suicide. They need in their arsenal some assets that can hit India where it hurts. And I believe that will be main role of BAF since BA or BN has no chance in hell break into Indian border or Indian water/shores.


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## Zabaniyah

MST said:


> Lets forget about money for a sec and talk about what is the BAF's objectives and what assets will enable them to get their goals.
> 
> As far as money is concerned I am sure Uncle Sam will be happy to offer some generous loans to BAF



BAF is a defensive force. First line of defense in fact. Similar to PAF doctrine. 

But that doesn't mean one has to stay within one's territory. To win a war, one has to take it to the enemy. 



> Now since you are a mod I have to be careful lest you ban me



Now why would I ban you?

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## MST

Loki said:


> BAF is a defensive force. First line of defense in fact. *Similar to PAF doctrine*.
> 
> But that doesn't mean one has to stay within one's territory. To win a war, one has to take it to the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> Now why would I ban you?



Not really. PAF is the most aggressive arm of the Pakistan Armed Forces (the three services). In all wars PAF have shown agression and have done pre emptive strikes against Indian assets. And thats perfect role of an Air force of a country which is small in size. Thats exactly the role that BAF should take up. 

A small size is a real disadvantage and thats why the Pakistani planners are so obsessed with strategic depth. They are smart and they know the limitations of a small country. If you fight a defensive war in your own country airports can be bombed in no time.



Loki said:


> Now why would I ban you?



Well as they say Mods se na dosti acchi hai aur na hi dushmani


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## hurt

Loki said:


> Low observable aircraft, superior avionics, superior radar are the way to the future.
> 
> Apart from that, there are many other ways for Bangladesh to move upwards. As someone rightly said: "It's the economy, stupid."
> 
> By the way, how do you think the J-31 measures up to the F-35 and others? I understand China intends to market that plane mainly for export.



your have good economic development,keep it,Bangladesh will stronger.

J-31 is power than F-35 as figher,F-35 more like a attacker. 
J-31 is not a best one ,but must be a best Cost-effective one.
I dont know info about FGFA,It maybe powerful ,maybe.
at least looks with higher observable.

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## hurt

MST said:


> Not really. PAF is the most aggressive arm of the Pakistan Armed Forces (the three services). In all wars PAF have shown agression and have done pre emptive strikes against Indian assets. And thats perfect role of an Air force of a country which is small in size. Thats exactly the role that BAF should take up.
> 
> A small size is a real disadvantage and thats why the Pakistani planners are so obsessed with strategic depth. They are smart and they know the limitations of a small country. If you fight a defensive war in your own country airports can be bombed in no time.



Its Different.

PAF own Strategic depth and topography.


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## MST

hurt said:


> Its Different.
> 
> PAF own Strategic depth and topography.



Can yu elaborate on what you mean by different and how does it impact BAF strategy vs what is used by PAF. Also define what according to you is the primary objective of BAF. if they try to fight the defensive war in their country they are doomed. India will simply bomb every BAF airbase in the very first hour of hostilities if BAF doesn't strike first and does punitive hits against airbases in the north east India.

Considering the fact that PAF has much much favorable topography (consisting of mountain ranges) while Bangladesh is mostly a flat land where Indian radars can see through and through except the eastern part of the country which has some hills.


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## hurt

MST said:


> Can yu elaborate on what you mean by different and how does it impact BAF strategy vs what is used by PAF. Also define what according to you is the primary objective of BAF. if they try to fight the defensive war in their country they are doomed. India will simply bomb every BAF airbase in the very first hour of hostilities if BAF doesn't strike first and does punitive hits against airbases in the north east India.
> 
> Considering the fact that PAF has much much favorable topography (consisting of mountain ranges) while Bangladesh is mostly a flat land where Indian radars can see through and through except the eastern part of the country which has some hills.



PAF never worry about his base be attack by Indian land army,but BAF&#12288;cant because Bangladesh area is too small.

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## ejaz007

PlanetSoldier said:


> Yeah...might be. We started our navy back in 72 with one boat donated by india, now look at our navy. Similarly we started our air force with some crap back then, it now maintains 160 fighters. Once we might be able to house 400 4/4.5 gens fighters as well.



Are you sure BAF has 160 operational fighters in her inventory.


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## PlanetSoldier

ejaz007 said:


> Are you sure BAF has 160 operational fighters in her inventory.



For a summary plz visit List of aircraft of the Bangladesh Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ejaz007

PlanetSoldier said:


> For a summary plz visit List of aircraft of the Bangladesh Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



If I can understand correctly then as per the list BAF has following fighters:

Mig-29 8
F-7 42
A-5 7
Total 57

Where are rest of 103 planes.


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## jahidus2005

ejaz007 said:


> If I can understand correctly then as per the list BAF has following fighters:
> 
> Mig-29 8
> F-7 42
> A-5 7
> Total 57
> 
> Where are rest of 103 planes.



lol he was mixing it up with trainner and other old plane i guess , but dont worrie bangladesh armys are good enough to hit anyone back with what they have , its like if u can remember against india they killed 2 of bangladesh border guard and they killed 20 of them


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## PlanetSoldier

ejaz007 said:


> If I can understand correctly then as per the list BAF has following fighters:
> 
> Mig-29 8
> F-7 42
> A-5 7
> Total 57
> 
> Where are rest of 103 planes.



Sorry...my bad...I wanted to say 160 aircraft not fighters.

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## PlanetSoldier

hurt said:


> Why you want buy Su-30?
> 
> A AWE lead 15 JF-17s powerful than 10 Su-30s for small and defensive country.
> 
> Su-30 Advantages are long Range and Load Ability &#65292;useful for you ?



Delhi is far away from Dhaka  .


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## mb444

BD is on its way with SAM coverage..... Low altitude coverage may be achieved now, BD I understand is now seeking mid-altitude coverage. High altitude coverage would obviously follow....

I hope BD also seeks and achieves indiginious production capacity in this regard.

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## hurt

PlanetSoldier said:


> Delhi is far away from Dhaka  .



Stronger like PAF cant do it

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## Luftwaffe

eastwatch said:


> No, IAF wil not bomb the BAF ground assets, because these are protected by three layers of SAM. All other nonmilitary assets are also being taken under SAM protection step by step. Expensive IAF toy planes bought with India's poor men's money will be annihilated in no time like popcorn.



IAF will do exactly that bomb both military installations and civilian areas for a small Nation to surrender. 

Although low level SAMs systems Chinese ones are being procured but are less in number the medium and high level is something Tri Arm needs to purchase incrementally in years to come.

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## eastwatch

Luftwaffe said:


> IAF will do exactly that bomb both military installations and civilian areas for a small Nation to surrender.
> 
> Although low level SAMs systems Chinese ones are being procured but are less in number the medium and high level is something Tri Arm needs to purchase incrementally in years to come.



The military is progressing with the procuring of short and medium range SAMs before it buys long range ones. It has a definite programme to put all the vital civilan and military installaions under SAM protection, since BAF still lacks even the least number of planes that can defend the country's airspace, let alone fly and strike the enemy installations.

India or any enemy country cannot make our military or people surrender just by bombing from the sky and destroying buildings. Its troops have to enter through our border, fight and defeat us on the watery, marshy and slippery ground to make us surrender, and they will have the bloodiest nose to try such a thing. Note one thing. Enemy troops cannot move their tanks inside our muddy country, because these will bog down. Even their rescue cranes will also bog down. So, the enemy troops can only be supported by artillery and sky-bombing. Do you think, it is feasible?

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## Luftwaffe

eastwatch said:


> The military is progressing with the procuring of short and medium range SAMs before it buys long range ones. It has a definite programme to put all the vital civilan and military installaions under SAM protection.
> 
> India or any enemy country cannot make our military or people surrender just by bombing from the sky and destroying buildings. Its troops have to enter through our border, fight and defeat us on the watery, marshy and slippery ground to make us surrender, and they will have the bloodiest nose to try such a thing. Note one thing. Enemy troops cannot move their tanks inside our muddy country, because these will bog down. Even their rescue cranes will also bog down. So, the enemy troops can only be supported by artillery and sky-bombing. Do you think, it is feasible?



Long story short if Bangladesh needs to take inspiration from it should be Sweden small highly efficient professional modern Armed Forces. Look no where else get smart weapons for Air, Land and Sea with-in means and develop economy rapidly.

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## MST

eastwatch said:


> The military is progressing with the procuring of short and medium range SAMs before it buys long range ones. It has a definite programme to put all the vital civilan and military installaions under SAM protection, since BAF still lacks even the least number of planes that can defend the country's airspace, let alone fly and strike the enemy installations.
> 
> India or any enemy country cannot make our military or people surrender just by bombing from the sky and destroying buildings. Its troops have to enter through our border, fight and defeat us on the watery, marshy and slippery ground to make us surrender, and they will have the bloodiest nose to try such a thing. Note one thing. Enemy troops cannot move their tanks inside our muddy country, because these will bog down. Even their rescue cranes will also bog down. So, the enemy troops can only be supported by artillery and sky-bombing. Do you think, it is feasible?



Truly I hope Bangladeshi planners are smarter then you. You are all nationalist pomp without substance. Bangladesh needs to have a punch and thats why I suggested buying F35s.

And No Indian Army doesn't need to come into Bangladesh. All it has to do is a naval blockade of Bangladesh and you will surrender in one month without a shot being fired. Remember your other neighbor and the only alternate way out is Myanmar who hate you even more than Indians.


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## hurt

MST said:


> Truly I hope Bangladeshi planners are smarter then you. You are all nationalist pomp without substance. Bangladesh needs to have a punch and thats why I suggested buying F35s.
> 
> And No Indian Army doesn't need to come into Bangladesh. All it has to do is a naval blockade of Bangladesh and you will surrender in one month without a shot being fired. Remember your other neighbor and the only alternate way out is Myanmar who hate you even more than Indians.



Plz tell me why Bangladesh will surrender without a shot being fired?

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## BDforever

hurt said:


> Plz tell me why Bangladesh will surrender ?



because he thinks bangladesh will get scared of water blockage and will not do anything

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## ExtraOdinary

LOL at ppl theorizing India and BD would go to war. Maybe border skirmishes but def. not a war


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## eastwatch

ExtraOdinary said:


> LOL at ppl theorizing India and BD would go to war. Maybe border skirmishes but def. not a war



I hope there will be no war. But, since that unequal border war in 2001 whereby only 13 BDR troops waited, with full knowledge of all being killed, to fight the 400-strong IA troops who dared to come inside to capture our border outpost, India has kept us surrounded with a 300,000 strong IA troops. It has also built several air bases around our border. All these steps are to intimidate us with number. But, when time comes we will defy the larger number and will fight to death. 2001 war is not an old story. Rather, it is a milestone that will guide us also in the future.

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## ExtraOdinary

eastwatch said:


> I hope there will be no war. But, since that unequal border war in 2001 whereby only 13 BDR troops waited, with full knowledge of all being killed, to fight the 400-strong IA troops who dared to come inside to capture our border outpost, India has kept on
> surrounding us with a 300,000 strong IA troops. It has also built several air bases around our border. All these steps are to intimidate us with number. But, when time comes we will defy the larger number and will fight to death. 2001 war is not an old story. Rather, it is a milestone that will guide us also in the future.



You do know about the chinese claiming arunachal as their own territory. Those bases are for them coz' we are extremely vulnerable in the chicken's neck area. There is no territorial dispute with BD and both countries are enjoying an economic boom, people have better things to do.

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## Luffy 500

So can YAK 130 be used to train pilots for chinese J-16/J11? If so, then in the future we can go for those as cheap alternative to russian (nah, I dreaming too much ).

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## Koovie

eastwatch said:


> The military is progressing with the procuring of short and medium range SAMs before it buys long range ones. It has a definite programme to put all the vital civilan and military installaions under SAM protection, since BAF still lacks even the least number of planes that can defend the country's airspace, let alone fly and strike the enemy installations.
> 
> India or any enemy country cannot make our military or people surrender just by bombing from the sky and destroying buildings. Its troops have to enter through our border, fight and defeat us on the watery, marshy and slippery ground to make us surrender, and they will have the bloodiest nose to try such a thing. Note one thing. Enemy troops cannot move their tanks inside our muddy country, because these will bog down. Even their rescue cranes will also bog down. So, the enemy troops can only be supported by artillery and sky-bombing. Do you think, it is feasible?




Apart from the ridiculous idea that India would go to war with BD,
Do you think that India would invade BD and start mass bombing raids in case of a war ? Thats illegal by all international laws.

Precision strikes and blockades would be enough to enforce a surrender.


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## Zabaniyah

Koovie said:


> Apart from the ridiculous idea that India would go to war with BD,
> Do you think that India would invade BD and start mass bombing raids in case of a war ? Thats illegal by all international laws.
> 
> Precision strikes and blockades would be enough to enforce a surrender.



Well, someone asked if BD can bomb New Delhi and Rangoon. It's all hypothetical as you can see

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## fatal_toxic

I dun think that India is goin to war wid BD!

To be very frank Bangladesh will also not like to indulge in such a misadventure as it will hit her economy very bad and as we know BD cant afford that since they are develpoing at a commendable rate and no one wants a decline in tht rate!

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## asad71

fatal_toxic said:


> I dun think that India is goin to war wid BD!
> 
> To be very frank Bangladesh will also not like to indulge in such a misadventure as it will hit her economy very bad and as we know BD cant afford that since they are developing at a commendable rate and no one wants a decline in tht rate!



1.BD is not going to invade India one fine morning! But we can't say that about India - given the history of SA and India's occupation of Sikkim, Hyderabad and J&K. All nations must work out all possible contingencies to protect it's freedom. And no one can forecast exactly how relations between states remain.

2. At the current time all our studies point out to India to be our top potential threat. China is our strategic ally. The type of govt at Dhaka is immaterial to Dhaka-Beijing relations. It will be a disaster fir China if India were to invade BD. China will have to intervene in such a scenario.

3. The Ummah is our umbilical chord. That terrifies the Brahmonic oligarchy that rules India.

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## fatal_toxic

asad71 said:


> 1.BD is not going to invade India one fine morning! But we can't say that about India - given the history of SA and India's occupation of Sikkim, Hyderabad and J&K. All nations must work out all possible contingencies to protect it's freedom. And no one can forecast exactly how relations between states remain.
> 
> 2. At the current time all our studies point out to India to be our top potential threat. China is our strategic ally. The type of govt at Dhaka is immaterial to Dhaka-Beijing relations. It will be a disaster fir China if India were to invade BD. China will have to intervene in such a scenario.
> 
> 3. The Ummah is our umbilical chord. That terrifies the Brahmonic oligarchy that rules India.


U can try all u want to point to the fact that India is gonna invade BD...bt the truth still remains the same as my previous post!
Tell me what is India gonna achieve by attacking BD???

Jus gimme a decade man!!!!


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## Gyp 111

BAF in UN mission

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## hurt

J-7 can carry one LS-6.

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## BDforever

*Update April/2013 -*
**24xYAK-130 incoming this year's fall or next year summer
**Long range radar able to detect 4+ gen fighters being bought range 400km+
**Buk-m1 SAM(surface to air missile system) hinted**
**F-7MB is no more :'( (now in reserve)
**12xF-7BGI has been introduced and all of them have been delivered +4xFT-7BGI have been delivered

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## Kompromat



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## monitor

Aeronaut said:


>



We had to copy not get any thing new


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## M.H.J.

NEWS: &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2468;&#2503; &#2479;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468; &#2489;&#2482;&#2507; &#2458;&#2496;&#2472;&#2503; &#2468;&#2504;&#2480;&#2495; &#2458;&#2468;&#2497;&#2480;&#2509;&#2469; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2460;&#2472;&#2509;&#2478;&#2503;&#2480; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2447;&#2475;-&#2541; &#2476;&#2495;&#2460;&#2495;&#2535;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sheikh Hasina today intorduced the New Bangladesh Air Force Base "Bangabandhu Air Base" . PM also observes aerobatic displays of new F-7BGI and Mi-171sh.

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But,,,I think F-7BGI is a 3.5/3++/3.75 gen fighter not a 4th gen fighter...



But, F-7BGI is not that much bad for us ...

* F-7BGI : F-7BGI Upgraded version for Bangladesh Air Force ordered in 2011(Delivered in November-December 2012). These aircraft are of a new variant most advanced and most latest F-7variant ever produced. F-7BGI is equipped with advanced avionics that will include HOTAS Control, three MFD displays and a HUD. The aircraft will also be equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. Beyond-visual-range missile, guided munition capable.

It has got most of the charectaristics of a 4th gen fighter ( but, charectaristics gula porimane olpo) ...

Conclusion: As a stop-gap fighter plane, F-7BGI is just okay! 



- MHJ ...

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## BDforever

M.H.J. said:


> NEWS: &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2468;&#2503; &#2479;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468; &#2489;&#2482;&#2507; &#2458;&#2496;&#2472;&#2503; &#2468;&#2504;&#2480;&#2495; &#2458;&#2468;&#2497;&#2480;&#2509;&#2469; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2460;&#2472;&#2509;&#2478;&#2503;&#2480; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2447;&#2475;-&#2541; &#2476;&#2495;&#2460;&#2495;&#2535;
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sheikh Hasina today intorduced the New Bangladesh Air Force Base "Bangabandhu Air Base" . PM also observes aerobatic displays of new F-&BGI and Mi-171sh.
> 
> &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2468;&#2503; &#2479;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468; &#2489;&#2482;&#2507; &#2458;&#2496;&#2472;&#2503; &#2468;&#2504;&#2480;&#2495; &#2458;&#2468;&#2497;&#2480;&#2509;&#2469; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2460;&#2472;&#2509;&#2478;&#2503;&#2480; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2447;&#2475;-&#2541; &#2476;&#2495;&#2460;&#2495;&#2535; &#2447;&#2476;&#2434; &#2480;&#2494;&#2486;&#2495;&#2479;&#2492;&#2494;&#2479;&#2492; &#2468;&#2504;&#2480;&#2495; &#2447;&#2478;&#2438;&#2439;-&#2535;&#2541;&#2535;&#2447;&#2488;&#2447;&#2439;&#2458; &#2489;&#2503;&#2482;&#2495;&#2453;&#2474;&#2509;&#2463;&#2494;&#2480;&#2404; &#2438;&#2460; &#2478;&#2457;&#2509;&#2455;&#2482;&#2476;&#2494;&#2480; &#2488;&#2453;&#2494;&#2482;&#2503; &#2453;&#2497;&#2480;&#2509;&#2478;&#2495;&#2463;&#2507;&#2482;&#2494; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2456;&#2494;&#2433;&#2463;&#2495;&#2468;&#2503; &#2447;&#2480; &#2437;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2480;&#2509;&#2477;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495; &#2441;&#2470;&#2509;&#2476;&#2507;&#2471;&#2472; &#2453;&#2480;&#2503;&#2472; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472;&#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2496; &#2486;&#2503;&#2454; &#2489;&#2494;&#2488;&#2495;&#2472;&#2494;&#2404;
> &#2453;&#2497;&#2480;&#2509;&#2478;&#2495;&#2463;&#2507;&#2482;&#2494; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2456;&#2494;&#2433;&#2463;&#2495;&#2480; &#2472;&#2494;&#2478;&#2451; &#2438;&#2460; &#2469;&#2503;&#2453;&#2503; &#2476;&#2470;&#2482;&#2503; &#2455;&#2503;&#2482;&#2404; &#2447;&#2480; &#2472;&#2468;&#2497;&#2472; &#2472;&#2494;&#2478; &#8216;&#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496; &#2456;&#2494;&#2433;&#2463;&#2495; &#2476;&#2457;&#2509;&#2455;&#2476;&#2472;&#2509;&#2471;&#2497;&#8217;&#2404;
> &#2437;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2480;&#2509;&#2477;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495; &#2437;&#2472;&#2497;&#2487;&#2509;&#2464;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472;&#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2496; &#2486;&#2503;&#2454; &#2489;&#2494;&#2488;&#2495;&#2472;&#2494; &#2476;&#2482;&#2503;&#2472;, &#2472;&#2468;&#2497;&#2472; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2451; &#2489;&#2503;&#2482;&#2495;&#2453;&#2474;&#2509;&#2463;&#2494;&#2480; &#2488;&#2434;&#2479;&#2507;&#2460;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2475;&#2482;&#2503; &#2460;&#2494;&#2468;&#2495;&#2488;&#2434;&#2456; &#2486;&#2494;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495;&#2480;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2494; &#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2468;&#2503; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2477;&#2494;&#2476;&#2478;&#2498;&#2480;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495; &#2476;&#2489;&#2497;&#2455;&#2497;&#2467; &#2476;&#2499;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2495; &#2474;&#2494;&#2476;&#2503;&#2404; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2480; &#2460;&#2472;&#2509;&#2479; &#2476;&#2465;&#2492; &#2471;&#2480;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2480;&#2495;&#2476;&#2489;&#2472; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;, &#2488;&#2478;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2480;&#2503; &#2468;&#2482;&#2509;&#2482;&#2494;&#2486;&#2495;-&#2441;&#2474;&#2479;&#2507;&#2455;&#2496; &#2489;&#2503;&#2482;&#2495;&#2453;&#2474;&#2509;&#2463;&#2494;&#2480; &#2451; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2486;&#2495;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2467; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2447;&#2476;&#2434; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2468;&#2495;&#2480;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2494; &#2480;&#2494;&#2465;&#2494;&#2480; &#2453;&#2503;&#2472;&#2494;&#2480; &#2476;&#2495;&#2487;&#2479;&#2492;&#2463;&#2495; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2453;&#2509;&#2480;&#2495;&#2479;&#2492;&#2494;&#2471;&#2496;&#2472; &#2438;&#2459;&#2503;&#2404; &#2439;&#2468;&#2495;&#2478;&#2471;&#2509;&#2479;&#2503; &#2453;&#2453;&#2509;&#2488;&#2476;&#2494;&#2460;&#2494;&#2480; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2456;&#2494;&#2433;&#2463;&#2495;&#2468;&#2503; &#2472;&#2468;&#2497;&#2472; &#2438;&#2453;&#2494;&#2486; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2468;&#2495;&#2480;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2494; &#2480;&#2494;&#2465;&#2494;&#2480; &#2488;&#2509;&#2469;&#2494;&#2474;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2470;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2474; &#2472;&#2503;&#2451;&#2479;&#2492;&#2494; &#2489;&#2479;&#2492;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503;&#2404; &#2468;&#2495;&#2472;&#2495; &#2476;&#2482;&#2503;&#2472;, &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2469;&#2478;&#2476;&#2494;&#2480;&#2503;&#2480; &#2478;&#2468;&#2507; &#2477;&#2498;&#2478;&#2495; &#2469;&#2503;&#2453;&#2503; &#2438;&#2453;&#2494;&#2486;&#2503; &#2472;&#2495;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2474;&#2467;&#2479;&#2507;&#2455;&#2509;&#2479; &#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2474;&#2467;&#2494;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480; &#2488;&#2434;&#2479;&#2507;&#2460;&#2472; &#2453;&#2480;&#2494; &#2489;&#2479;&#2492;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2468;&#2503;&#2404; &#2476;&#2457;&#2509;&#2455;&#2476;&#2472;&#2509;&#2471;&#2497; &#2447;&#2480;&#2507;&#2472;&#2463;&#2495;&#2453; &#2488;&#2503;&#2472;&#2509;&#2463;&#2494;&#2480; &#2488;&#2509;&#2469;&#2494;&#2474;&#2472; &#2453;&#2480;&#2494; &#2489;&#2479;&#2492;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503;&#2404; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2503; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2458;&#2494;&#2482;&#2494;&#2472;&#2507; &#2455;&#2497;&#2480;&#2497;&#2468;&#2480; &#2451; &#2474;&#2476;&#2495;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480; &#2470;&#2494;&#2479;&#2492;&#2495;&#2468;&#2509;&#2476;&#2404; &#2470;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2468;&#2494;&#2480; &#2441;&#2472;&#2509;&#2472;&#2479;&#2492;&#2472;&#2503; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2486;&#2495;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2467;&#2503;&#2480; &#2455;&#2497;&#2480;&#2497;&#2468;&#2509;&#2476; &#2476;&#2494;&#2465;&#2492;&#2494;&#2468;&#2503; &#2489;&#2476;&#2503;&#2404;
> &#2437;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2480;&#2509;&#2477;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495; &#2437;&#2472;&#2497;&#2487;&#2509;&#2464;&#2494;&#2472; &#2441;&#2474;&#2482;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503; &#2488;&#2453;&#2494;&#2482; &#2535;&#2534;&#2463;&#2494;&#2479;&#2492; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2456;&#2494;&#2433;&#2463;&#2495;&#2468;&#2503; &#2479;&#2494;&#2472; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472;&#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2496;&#2404; &#2447; &#2488;&#2478;&#2479;&#2492; &#2468;&#2494;&#2433;&#2453;&#2503; &#2488;&#2509;&#2476;&#2494;&#2455;&#2468; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494;&#2472; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2480; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472; &#2447;&#2479;&#2492;&#2494;&#2480; &#2478;&#2494;&#2480;&#2509;&#2486;&#2494;&#2482; &#2478;&#2507;&#2489;&#2494;&#2478;&#2509;&#2478;&#2470; &#2439;&#2478;&#2494;&#2478;&#2497;&#2482; &#2476;&#2494;&#2480;&#2496; &#2451; &#2476;&#2457;&#2509;&#2455;&#2476;&#2472;&#2509;&#2471;&#2497; &#2456;&#2494;&#2433;&#2463;&#2495;&#2480; &#2437;&#2471;&#2495;&#2472;&#2494;&#2479;&#2492;&#2453; &#2447;&#2479;&#2492;&#2494;&#2480; &#2453;&#2478;&#2507;&#2465;&#2480; &#2447;&#2489;&#2488;&#2494;&#2472;&#2497;&#2482; &#2455;&#2467;&#2495; &#2458;&#2508;&#2471;&#2497;&#2480;&#2496;&#2404; &#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2495;&#2474;&#2480;&#2495;&#2487;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2470;&#2488;&#2509;&#2479;, &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472;&#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2496;&#2480; &#2441;&#2474;&#2470;&#2503;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2494;, &#2458;&#2496;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2480;&#2494;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2509;&#2480;&#2470;&#2498;&#2468;, &#2468;&#2495;&#2472; &#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2480; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472; &#2451; &#2441;&#2458;&#2509;&#2458;&#2474;&#2470;&#2488;&#2509;&#2469; &#2488;&#2494;&#2478;&#2480;&#2495;&#2453; &#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2478;&#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2480;&#2494; &#2447; &#2488;&#2478;&#2479;&#2492; &#2441;&#2474;&#2488;&#2509;&#2469;&#2495;&#2468; &#2459;&#2495;&#2482;&#2503;&#2472;&#2404;
> &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472;&#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2496;&#2480; &#2476;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2476;&#2509;&#2479;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2480; &#2472;&#2468;&#2497;&#2472; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2470;&#2497;&#2480;&#2498;&#2489; &#2453;&#2488;&#2480;&#2468; &#2470;&#2503;&#2454;&#2494;&#2472;&#2507; &#2489;&#2479;&#2492;&#2404; &#2488;&#2494;&#2480;&#2495; &#2476;&#2503;&#2433;&#2471;&#2503; &#2474;&#2468;&#2494;&#2453;&#2494; &#2472;&#2495;&#2479;&#2492;&#2503; &#2479;&#2494;&#2479;&#2492; &#2489;&#2503;&#2482;&#2495;&#2453;&#2474;&#2509;&#2463;&#2494;&#2480;&#2404; &#2438;&#2476;&#2494;&#2480; &#2480;&#2457;&#2495;&#2472; &#2471;&#2507;&#2433;&#2479;&#2492;&#2494; &#2459;&#2494;&#2465;&#2492;&#2468;&#2503; &#2459;&#2494;&#2465;&#2492;&#2468;&#2503; &#2454;&#2497;&#2476; &#2472;&#2495;&#2458; &#2470;&#2495;&#2479;&#2492;&#2503; &#2441;&#2465;&#2492;&#2503; &#2479;&#2494;&#2479;&#2492; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2404; &#2486;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2497;&#2453;&#2503; &#2471;&#2507;&#2433;&#2453;&#2494; &#2470;&#2495;&#2479;&#2492;&#2503; &#2472;&#2495;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2474; &#2453;&#2480;&#2503; &#2438;&#2455;&#2497;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2455;&#2507;&#2482;&#2494;&#2404; &#2472;&#2468;&#2497;&#2472; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2455;&#2497;&#2482;&#2507; &#2438;&#2453;&#2494;&#2486;&#2503; &#2458;&#2453;&#2509;&#2453;&#2480; &#2470;&#2495;&#2468;&#2503; &#2470;&#2495;&#2468;&#2503; &#2441;&#2465;&#2492;&#2503; &#2479;&#2494;&#2479;&#2492; &#2470;&#2509;&#2480;&#2497;&#2468; &#2455;&#2468;&#2495;&#2468;&#2503;&#2404; &#2447;&#2480; &#2438;&#2455;&#2503; &#2472;&#2468;&#2497;&#2472; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2451; &#2489;&#2503;&#2482;&#2495;&#2453;&#2474;&#2509;&#2463;&#2494;&#2480; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2470;&#2480;&#2509;&#2486;&#2472; &#2453;&#2480;&#2494; &#2489;&#2479;&#2492;&#2404;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-7BGI : F-7BGI Upgraded version for Bangladesh Air Force ordered in 2011(Delivered in November-December 2012). These aircraft are of a new variant most advanced and most latest F-7variant ever produced. F-7BGI is equipped with advanced avionics that will include HOTAS Control, three MFD displays and a HUD. The aircraft will also be equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. Beyond-visual-range missile, guided munition capable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( But,,,I think F-7BGI is a 3.5/3++/3.75 gen fighter not a 4th gen fighter... )
> 
> - MHJ ...



prothom alo journalist is illiterate, 

it is 3.5 gen fighter not 4 gen fight

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## chisty_chowdhury

M.H.J. said:


> NEWS: &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486; &#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472;&#2476;&#2494;&#2489;&#2495;&#2472;&#2496;&#2468;&#2503; &#2479;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468; &#2489;&#2482;&#2507; &#2458;&#2496;&#2472;&#2503; &#2468;&#2504;&#2480;&#2495; &#2458;&#2468;&#2497;&#2480;&#2509;&#2469; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2460;&#2472;&#2509;&#2478;&#2503;&#2480; &#2479;&#2497;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2476;&#2495;&#2478;&#2494;&#2472; &#2447;&#2475;-&#2541; &#2476;&#2495;&#2460;&#2495;&#2535;
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sheikh Hasina today intorduced the New Bangladesh Air Force Base "Bangabandhu Air Base" . PM also observes aerobatic displays of new F-7BGI and Mi-171sh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But,,,I think F-7BGI is a 3.5/3++/3.75 gen fighter not a 4th gen fighter...
> 
> 
> 
> But, F-7BGI is not that much bad for us ...
> 
> * F-7BGI : F-7BGI Upgraded version for Bangladesh Air Force ordered in 2011(Delivered in November-December 2012). These aircraft are of a new variant most advanced and most latest F-7variant ever produced. F-7BGI is equipped with advanced avionics that will include HOTAS Control, *three MFD* displays and a HUD. The aircraft will also be equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. *Beyond-visual-range missile*, guided munition capable.
> 
> It has got most of the charectaristics of a 4th gen fighter ( but, charectaristics gula porimane olpo) ...
> 
> Conclusion: As a stop-gap fighter plane, F-7BGI is just okay!
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...



During the commissioning ceremony the presenter said BG1 has *2 MFD*, it can carry PL-5/PL-9 missile of *22km range*. In addition it has* PGM capability of 100km range*.*No mention of BVR capability or BVR missiles.*

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## animelive

Hasina to BAF : 'You know I have again succeeded in completing another dream of BB.
This is model that BB dreamed in his Sonar Bangla! (in the the 70s)

BAF : We know that Madam that why we ordered this even in this 21 st century

Hasina: Wow, Next time i will get the same model.

BAF : Thank you.U will be pleased to know even after 476 crash the IAF still loves in it.

Hasina: Dont worry our ones are made in China.So cheap we can use it for Dhaka-Chittagong route!


-Copied from bdmil

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## PlanetSoldier

animelive said:


> Hasina to BAF : 'You know I have again succeeded in completing another dream of BB.
> This is model that BB dreamed in his Sonar Bangla! (in the the 70s)
> 
> BAF : We know that Madam that why we ordered this even in this 21 st century
> 
> Hasina: Wow, Next time i will get the same model.
> 
> BAF : Thank you.U will be pleased to know even after 476 crash the IAF still loves in it.
> 
> Hasina: Dont worry our ones are made in China.So cheap we can use it for Dhaka-Chittagong route!
> 
> 
> -Copied from bdmil



Yeah...she can now materialize another dream of BB distributing these F-7 fighters to Sheikh family members. These fighters match well in their hands not in BAF...it's all theirs  .

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## eastwatch

Why does not SHW writes a book that contain all the BB dreams, so that the future generations can fulfill them!!!

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## DURJOY

Mig-29 UB of Bangladesh air force 
------------------------------------------
Shared by:Military power of Bangladesh(FB)

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## Luffy 500

Is it possible for the Mig29 SMT to have an AESA radar? The typical Mig 29 SMT don't feature an AESA but the Zhuk radar is having a AESA version, the Zhuk-AE.

Zhuk radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is it possible that our old migs and potential new ones can have this radar?


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## Zabaniyah

Luffy 500 said:


> Is it possible for the Mig29 SMT to have an AESA radar? The typical Mig 29 SMT don't feature an AESA but the Zhuk radar is having a AESA version, the Zhuk-AE.
> 
> Zhuk radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Is it possible that our old migs and potential new ones can have this radar?



Yes, it is possible:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/126862-russian-aesa-radar-future-mig-29s.html

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## Luffy 500

Loki said:


> Yes, it is possible:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/126862-russian-aesa-radar-future-mig-29s.html



Then I guess it would be rational for us to for a good quantity of AESA mig29 for our 4.5gen AC. If we are buying it then why not go for some extra punch anyway?

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## BDforever

OK BD guys i have some good news for you.... according my BAF source:

1.1 squadron of su30 joining in 2015.
2. total 7 squadrons of 4++ gen fighter (if possible half squadron of 5th gen fighter) will be in BAF by 2027.
3. two more new airbases will be built by 2025 ( i know the locations but can not share now)

HAPPY ?

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## Zabaniyah

@BDforever Sources please


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## BDforever

Loki said:


> @BDforever Sources please



My personal BAF source


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## Zabaniyah

BDforever said:


> My personal BAF source



Yeah, I'd take that with a pinch of salt...

Otherwise, you would have never even posted that kind of information

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## BDforever

arp2041 said:


> I did not say it the way u are taking it.
> 
> It was you who said it first, i m not still getting even the BD source from you & i had asked for it atleast 7-8 times.



i do not repeat same thing again, i said i saw the news with my father, i do not know what you do but we do not lie about something when we give reference of family member. And do not bring off topic issue. If you do not believe what i post, that does not bother me. Believe it or not that is your choice. I do not dam care about what you believe and think


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## Zabaniyah

BDforever said:


> i do not repeat same thing again, i said i saw the news with my father, *i do not know what you do but we do not lie about something when we give reference of family member. *And do not bring off topic issue. If you do not believe what i post, that does not bother me. Believe it or not that is your choice. I do not dam care about what you believe and think



That doesn't mean they are always correct. And this is a public forum. So sources are always recommended.


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## Lone

BDforever said:


> OK BD guys i have some good news for you.... according my BAF source:
> 
> 1.1 squadron of su30 joining in 2015.
> 2. total 7 squadrons of 4++ gen fighter (if possible half squadron of 5th gen fighter) will be in BAF by 2027.
> 3. two more new airbases will be built by 2025 ( i know the locations but can not share now)
> 
> HAPPY ?



u know what, Feni/comilla needs an airbase


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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> OK BD guys i have some good news for you.... according my BAF source:
> 
> 1.1 squadron of su30 joining in 2015.
> 2. total 7 squadrons of 4++ gen fighter (if possible half squadron of 5th gen fighter) will be in BAF by 2027.
> 3. two more new airbases will be built by 2025 ( i know the locations but can not share now)
> 
> HAPPY ?



Padma bridge and SU-30 are mutually exclusive things for BD budget...


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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> OK BD guys i have some good news for you.... according my BAF source:
> 
> 1.1 squadron of su30 joining in 2015.
> 2. total 7 squadrons of 4++ gen fighter (if possible half squadron of 5th gen fighter) will be in BAF by 2027.
> 3. two more new airbases will be built by 2025 ( i know the locations but can not share now)
> 
> HAPPY ?



The existing locations of air force bases are as follows:

1) BAF Base Bashar at Dhaka, near Old Airport, Dhaka

2) BAF Base Kurmitola at Dhaka, near Hazrat Shahjalal International Airport, Dhaka

3) BAF Base Birsrestho Matiur Rahmn at Jessore, near Jessore Airport, Jessore

4) BAF Base Zahurul Haque at Chittagong, near Hazrat Shah Amanat International Airport, Chittagong

5) BAF Base Paharkanchanpur at Tangail, near Tangail City

6) BAF Base Cox's Bazar at Coxe's Bazar, near Cox's Bazar Airport

I would propose one airbase either in Bhola or somewhere in between Faridpur and Barisal. There are at least five large open fields between Faridpur and Barisal. These can be seen while one takes a journey by road. Another base in Syedpur in the north. Bhola/Faridpur-Barisal can support military cantonments in Jessore, Comilla as well as Cox's Bazaar. Syedpur can support Bogra cantonment.

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## Bamboo Castle

*Bngladesh Air Force C-130 Hercules in UN*

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## Bamboo Castle

Bangladesh air force need some of these:

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## Bamboo Castle



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## Bamboo Castle

*Air Force replacing contingent in Ivory Coast*

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## Anubis



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## Anubis



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## Zabaniyah

Coming soon (maybe):





The photo is just awesome

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## Luffy 500

^^^ YAK 130 can be used as attack AC as well which is a real boost for our AF and possibly Navy if the bird is capable of maritime strike. Burmese will be pissing in their pants from this alone.

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## animelive

RiasatKhan said:


>



Good stuff, might be handy for hunting birds in this age

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## Flynn Swagmire

@animelive, What about them?

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## Zabaniyah

It is extremely unlikely if the Chinese can export the J-10 anytime soon. 

Additionally, it's export profile may be similar to that of the F-15 Eagle. Not everyone would be able to get their hands on such a machine.

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## Luffy 500

Loki said:


> It is extremely unlikely if the Chinese can export the J-10 anytime soon.
> 
> Additionally, it's export profile may be similar to that of the F-15 Eagle. Not everyone would be able to get their hands on such a machine.



DO we have any other choice. The deal for Yak is signed from which there won't be a scope of turning back i think. Now our best bet lies with 24/32 AESA mig29 and may be if the wallet allows can go for 16/32 J10s beyond 2020 giving a divergence in supply chain. Highly unlikely though.


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## Rokto14

Bamboo Castle said:


> Bangladesh air force need some of these:


I would i
say it isn't necessary because bangladesh airspace its small.


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## Flynn Swagmire

Rokto14 said:


> I would say it isn't necessary because bangladesh airspace its small.



Yes it is. It will give us better BVR capability in combat.

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## animelive

abushaleh said:


> Yes it is. It will give us better BVR capability in combat.



BVR capability really isn't as useful as it seems. All of the fighters usually end up in a dogfight.

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## BDforever

animelive said:


> BVR capability really isn't as useful as it seems. All of the fighters usually end up in a dogfight.



bro, modern fighter aircraft has BVR capability, i think he is talking about AEW&C

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## Flynn Swagmire

animelive said:


> BVR capability really isn't as useful as it seems. All of the fighters usually end up in a dogfight.



Bro, AEW&C will bring us some time to plan against air attack and AEW&C can scan lot of air space then a fighter.

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## animelive

BDforever said:


> bro, modern fighter aircraft has BVR capability, i think he is talking about AEW&C



i know, i was just saying that there is nothing special about bvr.

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## BDforever

> *Detailed negotiations for the deal involving $1 billion of credit to Bangladesh will take place this spring, said Rosoboronexport Deputy Chief Viktor Komardin."The purchase of Yak-130 warplanes is a very significant subject of negotiations between Russia and Bangladesh," he said during his visit to the 5-day show, which ended last Saturday.Russia granted Bangladesh a $1 billion arms purchase credit during the visit of Bangladeshi Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wajed to Moscow in January when she met Russian President Vladimir Putin. Komardin, who led the Rosoboronexport delegation to Malaysia, said Russian manufacturers want "cooperation in all areas, including the transfer of technology, assembly under license, (development of) hardware maintenance centers and joint research and development programs."*



Read more: Bangladesh embarks on $1.5B Yak deal - UPI.com

there is a rumor of UAV in the deal or the transfer of tech from Russia to Bangladesh to develop own UAV

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## Zabaniyah

animelive said:


> i know, i was just saying that there is nothing special about bvr.



Majority of air-to-air engagement were WVR during the Gulf War

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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> bro, modern fighter aircraft has BVR capability, i think he is talking about AEW&C



AWACS or AEW&C is good to collect information on the enemy movements across the border because it is placed at a high altitude from where its radar can see all these enemy activities. This is more true for a small country like BD. From within its border AWACS radars can do the job. AWACS is also useful to direct BVR missiles in wars, but @animelive is correct to state that although all the rich countries are trying to develop BVR capability, but it is not that helpful in real wars. 

BVR is progressively being developed since after 2nd WW, but the past records show it has very limited effects in real wars. Only a few killings have been made so far. Rather, the heat seeking closer missiles and finally dogfights with machine gun fires remain the main weapons to annihilate enemy planes.

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## animelive

Loki said:


> Majority of air-to-air engagement were WVR during the Gulf War



exactly. BVR isn't dependable option yet and the little part it played in the previous wars weren't as pleasant as expected either.


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## eastwatch

animelive said:


> exactly. BVR isn't dependable option yet and the little part it played in the previous wars weren't as pleasant as expected either.



You are very right to say that BVR is not that dependable. When the BVR radar locks on an enemy plane to fire a missile, the latter's radar warns the pilot. A duly trained pilot will make only a small side sway or vertical maneuvering of his plane, it will fail the incoming missile to hit the target. More than 30 seconds are available for the enemy pilot, which is quite a long time for a speedy jet plane.

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## animelive

eastwatch said:


> You are very right to say that BVR is not that dependable. When the BVR radar locks on an enemy plane to fire a missile, the latter's radar warns the pilot. A duly trained pilot will make only a small side sway or vertical maneuvering of his plane, it will fail the incoming missile to hit the target. More than 30 seconds are available for the enemy pilot, which is quite a long time for a speedy jet plane.



Back when it was to be tested first, it failed highly. BVR planes such as phantom were thought to be immune from dogfights, hence they did not have front cannons or machine guns but they faced heavy losses which changed the doctrine of BVR plane behavior. Introduced cannons and Improved maneuverability because even BVR in battle get drawn out to dogfights.

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## Flynn Swagmire

*Hello Think Tanks,

I have some question - Why YAK-130 is subsonic? Shouldn't we go for supersonic multirole trainer jet?*


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## BDforever

abushaleh said:


> *Hello Think Tanks,
> 
> I have some question - Why YAK-130 is subsonic? Shouldn't we go for supersonic multirole trainer jet?*



because speed is not only matter, features are matter for training.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Look at this beast!

isssh, if we can afford them to our AF.

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## eastwatch

abushaleh said:


> Look at this beast!
> 
> isssh, if we can afford them to our AF.


What plane is this one? there are so many hard points!!!!


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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> What plane is this one? there are so many hard points!!!!



F-15 i think


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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> F-15 i think



No, it is not F-15 Eagle, because it is a Boeing plane. McDonnell Douglus produces F-15s.


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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> No, it is not F-15 Eagle, because it is a Boeing plane. McDonnell Douglus produces F-15s.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas read it

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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas read it



Look at the top of picture. It is written 'Boeing" in very large letters. So, it is a Boeing plane. If it is so, then it cannot be an Eagle F-15, because Eagle is a McDonnell Plane. Hope, it is clear to you now.


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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> Look at the top of picture. It is written 'Boeing" in very large letters. So, it is a Boeing plane. If it is so, then it cannot be an Eagle F-15, because Eagle is a McDonnell Plane. Hope, it is clear to you now.





> The McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) F-15 Eagle..


 did you read it ? 


the picture matches with this link ... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F-15SE_Silent_Eagle

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## untitled

eastwatch said:


> No, it is not F-15 Eagle, because it is a Boeing plane. McDonnell Douglus produces F-15s.



Boeing bought McDonall Douglas a long time ago .... 1997 to be exact

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## untitled

eastwatch said:


> What plane is this one? there are so many hard points!!!!



On a real mission some of these hardpoints will be taken by drop tanks

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## Zabaniyah

abushaleh said:


> Look at this beast!
> 
> isssh, if we can afford them to our AF.



Indeed, the F-15 Strike Eagle is a fine beast


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## eastwatch

Loki said:


> Indeed, the F-15 Strike Eagle is a fine beast



Have all or any of Japan, Israel and SA already bought this plane? Unit cost is about 120 million USD. I have checked the specifications. Its ferry rang is 3,450 miles (3,000 nautical miles) with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks. The ferry range is a staggering 5,500 km!!!!

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## Rokto14

Loki said:


> Indeed, the F-15 Strike Eagle is a fine beast


Isn't that the newest F15 Silent Eage? I heard South Korea bought them i guess


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## Flynn Swagmire

Here is MR. Super Flanker's with massive A2A combat load.

We should go for his customized version e.g.- SU-35MKB.

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## eastwatch

abushaleh said:


> Here is MR. Super Flanker's with massive A2A combat load.
> 
> We should go for his customized version e.g.- SU-35MKB.



Su-35MKB seems to have been fitted with more hard points than the Eagle. There are hard points also on the top of the wings.


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## Flynn Swagmire

eastwatch said:


> Su-35MKB seems to have been fitted with more hard points than the Eagle. There are hard points also on the top of the wings.



Joking!

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## eastwatch

abushaleh said:


> Joking!



No, no. I was not joking. I did not see in a quick glance that the plane is upside down, and I thought there are so many technological developments now a days. So, there could also be hard points on top, too. You see I am a simpleton, though not always actually, I can assure you that.


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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> Have all or any of Japan, Israel and SA already bought this plane? Unit cost is about 120 million USD. I have checked the specifications. Its ferry rang is 3,450 miles (3,000 nautical miles) with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks. The ferry range is a staggering 5,500 km!!!!



It just goes to say, if money is no problem, and air superiority is what you want, then the F-15 is the one to go for.

Obviously, it is exported to only a select group of nations due to sensitive technology. Not everyone can have it, regardless of how much money they have. 



Rokto14 said:


> Isn't that the newest F15 Silent Eage? I heard South Korea bought them i guess



Silent Eagle has internal weapon bays. And yes, it is one of the competitors in South Korea's fighter tender. 

South Korea currently uses the F-15K (Korean version of the Strike Eagle).



abushaleh said:


> Here is MR. Super Flanker's with massive A2A combat load.
> 
> We should go for his customized version e.g.- SU-35MKB.



There's no such thing as Su-35MK

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## eastwatch

Loki said:


> It just goes to say, if money is no problem, and air superiority is what you want, then the F-15 is the one to go for.
> 
> Obviously, it is exported to only a select group of nations due to sensitive technology. Not everyone can have it, regardless of how much money they have.
> 
> 
> 
> Silent Eagle has internal weapon bays. And yes, it is one of the competitors in South Korea's fighter tender.
> 
> South Korea currently uses the F-15K (Korean version of the Strike Eagle).
> 
> There's no such thing as Su-35MK



Eagle is a plane that can make a deep penetration into the enemy countries. Instead of thinking in a negative way, we must be rational about our limited airspace. Enemies have built so many air/military bases around us and these are so near to our vital assets that without offensive planes like Eagle it is almost impossible for us to do also a defensive air war. 

Offense is the best defense as the saying goes. However, our wallet is too small to afford even a sq. of Eagles and USA may not be ready to sell this weapon to a 3rd rate poor country like BD. However, who can stop us from dreaming?

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## Listening Post

_isssh, if we can afford them to our AF._
To be used for ???? 

_isssh, if we can afford them to our AF._
To be used for ???? 

_isssh, if we can afford them to our AF._
To be used for ????


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## Bamboo Castle



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## Flynn Swagmire

Loki said:


> There's no such thing as Su-35MK



In future modernized AC will come with MK suffix.


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## abdullah123

Wouldn't Chinese planes from the J-10 upwards be more appropriate for bangladesh?

They are cheaper.

Lower maintainence (single engine)

Similar technology to Western planes

Less political strings

No kill-switch

Saudi Arabia discovered that their F-15s had a kill-switch prgrammed into their IFF, radar and mission computer systems. This meant that if the Saudis wanted to target Israeli or American planes, the IFF and mission computer would fail to lock-on to their planes.

How would Bangladesh ensure similar kill-switches are not programmed into it's American equipment?

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## BDforever

abdullah123 said:


> Wouldn't Chinese planes from the J-10 upwards be more appropriate for bangladesh?
> 
> They are cheaper.
> 
> Lower maintainence (single engine)
> 
> Similar technology to Western planes
> 
> Less political strings
> 
> No kill-switch
> 
> Saudi Arabia discovered that their F-15s had a kill-switch prgrammed into their IFF, radar and mission computer systems. This meant that if the Saudis wanted to target Israeli or American planes, the IFF and mission computer would fail to lock-on to their planes.
> 
> How would Bangladesh ensure similar kill-switches are not programmed into it's American equipment?



China can not sell J 10 , it uses Ukrainian or Russian engines , so it has copyright issue. J 10 only for China.


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## Zabaniyah

abdullah123 said:


> Wouldn't Chinese planes from the J-10 upwards be more appropriate for bangladesh?
> 
> They are cheaper.
> 
> Lower maintainence (single engine)
> 
> Similar technology to Western planes
> 
> Less political strings
> 
> No kill-switch
> 
> Saudi Arabia discovered that their F-15s had a kill-switch prgrammed into their IFF, radar and mission computer systems. This meant that if the Saudis wanted to target Israeli or American planes, the IFF and mission computer would fail to lock-on to their planes.
> 
> How would Bangladesh ensure similar kill-switches are not programmed into it's American equipment?



There are no such thing as 'kill switches' on American planes. 

The J-10 cannot be exported to Bangladesh anytime soon. And by no means equal to the F-16's latest block (E/F Block 60). I'd be surprised if it meets or exceeds the F-16 C/D Block 52.


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## UKBengali

Loki said:


> The J-10 cannot be exported to Bangladesh anytime soon. And by no means equal to the F-16's latest block (E/F Block 60). I'd be surprised if it meets or exceeds the F-16 C/D Block 52.



J-10B could be exported to BD in the next five years as by the time that BD gets it, then J-20/J-31 could be ready for service into China. Whether BD can wait till 2017-2018 is another matter.

J-10B would far exceed the capabilities of the F-16 Block 52 and I would say that it could be slightly better than F-16 Block 60 as it has a more superior airframe when it comes to air-to-air missions. There is a good reason why the Euro-fighter and Rafale like the J-10 are both delta-canards and that is for the best air-to-air performance possible.

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## eastwatch

Loki said:


> There are no such thing as 'kill switches' on American planes.
> 
> The J-10 cannot be exported to Bangladesh anytime soon. And by no means equal to the F-16's latest block (E/F Block 60). I'd be surprised if it meets or exceeds the F-16 C/D Block 52.



About F-16E/F Block 60. Some links say UAE has provided the entire 3 billion USD cost of developing this block. So, only this country now has this plane other than the USAF itself. The report says UAE will get royalty over any sale of this plane to foreign countries. 

Anyway, BAF may not need this plane or cannot afford it, and US govt will veto any sale to BD because of India's objection. However, I think, because of a 3rd party involvement, there is a possibility that US will sell this plane to countries other than SA or Israel. Then why not BAF, if it needs it? Perhaps, my dream is too big.


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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> China can not sell J 10 , it uses Ukrainian or Russian engines , so it has copyright issue. J 10 only for China.



Uses of Russian engines cannot be a good reason not to sell it to BAF. China is trying frantically to develop its own engines, but still the Chinese engines remain immature. So, China uses Russian and Ukrainian engines. THese countries' jet engines are fully developed because of a long history of their development process. As far as I know, even FC-1/JF-17 uses Russian engine.


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## UKBengali

eastwatch said:


> Uses of Russian engines cannot be a good reason not to sell it to BAF. China is trying frantically to develop its own engines, but still the Chinese engines remain immature. So, China uses Russian and Ukrainian engines. THese countries' jet engines are fully developed because of a long history of their development process. As far as I know, even FC-1/JF-17 uses Russian engine.



The "immaturity" tag of Chinese engines is a bit out of date in my opinion.

The WS-10A has been powering J-11B twin-engine fighters since 2010.

The WS-10B equipped J-10B probably would take no longer than a year or two to be ready for service.

Even if BD places an order for J-10 today, it would not be delivered till around 2015 anyway.

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## Zabaniyah

UKBengali said:


> J-10B could be exported to BD in the next five years as by the time that BD gets it, then J-20/J-31 could be ready for service into China. Whether BD can wait till 2017-2018 is another matter.
> 
> J-10B would far exceed the capabilities of the F-16 Block 52 and I would say that it could be slightly better than F-16 Block 60 as it has a more superior airframe when it comes to air-to-air missions. There is a good reason why the Euro-fighter and Rafale like the J-10 are both delta-canards and that is for the best air-to-air performance possible.



Got any evidence to back up your claims? Otherwise, it's all speculation. I doubt if the Chinese have a system equivalent to SPECTRA. 



eastwatch said:


> About F-16E/F Block 60. Some links say UAE has provided the entire 3 billion USD cost of developing this block. So, only this country now has this plane other than the USAF itself. The report says UAE will get royalty over any sale of this plane to foreign countries.
> 
> Anyway, BAF may not need this plane or cannot afford it, and US govt will veto any sale to BD because of India's objection. However, I think, because of a 3rd party involvement, there is a possibility that US will sell this plane to countries other than SA or Israel. Then why not BAF, if it needs it? Perhaps, my dream is too big.



India won't be able to do anything. It is more of a question of money and politics.

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## eastwatch

UKBengali said:


> The "immaturity" tag of Chinese engines is a bit out of date in my opinion.
> 
> The WS-10A has been powering J-11B twin-engine fighters since 2010.
> 
> The WS-10B equipped J-10B probably would take no longer than a year or two to be ready for service.
> 
> Even if BD places an order for J-10 today, it would not be delivered till around 2015 anyway.



While western countries including USA have many hundreds of years of COMBINED experience in building engines, China only has 30 years of experience. It will take at least two or three more decades before China can develop a sustainable and dependable jet engine. Of the jet engines, the engines in the war jets are more difficult to develop. 

Jet engines have to take a tremendous thrust while it climbs @220 m/s or more. China may be using its own engines in some of its jets as a part of the development of its engines. But, China yet has to build a reliable engine. No foreign customer would accept Chinese engines it its war jets.


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## UKBengali

Loki said:


> Got any evidence to back up your claims? Otherwise, it's all speculation. I doubt if the Chinese have a system equivalent to SPECTRA.



J-10 uses a delta-canard like the two Euro-canards which makes for better handling at the high-speed BVR engagements over fighters such as F-16.

India rejected the F-16I, basically another version of the F-16 Block 60 in favour of Rafale.

Spectra is a Rafale product and not F-16 so not sure why you mentioned that.

It is quiet possible that F-16 Block 60 will have better electronics than J-10B but that is by no means guaranteed, and even if it does the difference may not matter that much anyway.

As for BD, I would much rather go with a speculated 40 million price tag of a J-10B over the 70-80 million for that of the F-16 Block 60.

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## BDforever

*UPCOMING KASTA2E2 Radar ... *






*
The Kasta-2E2 radar is a mobile automated solid-state system which can detect targets, measure their distance, azimuth and height, as well as track the targets and furnish their motion parameters to operators. The radar can handle such targets as fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, remote-piloted aerial vehicles, cruise missiles, including those flying at extreme-low altitudes, on the background of intense ground and cloud clutter. The radar can detect 'stealth' and moving sea-surface targets. *

source: Modern Air Defence Radars

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## eastwatch

UKBengali said:


> J-10 uses a delta-canard like the two Euro-canards which makes for better handling at the high-speed BVR engagements over fighters such as F-16.



BVR technology is in demand throughout the world's air forces, no doubt. But this technology is not any advantage in real air wars. BVR missiles miss nine times out of ten shootings.


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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> BVR technology is in demand throughout the world's air forces, no doubt. But this technology is not any advantage in real air wars. BVR missiles miss nine times out of ten shootings.



what ?  really bro ? ! ! where did you get it bro ?


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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> BVR technology is in demand throughout the world's air forces, no doubt. But this technology is not any advantage in real air wars. *BVR missiles miss nine times out of ten shootings.*



How did you come up with such an absurd conclusion?


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## UKBengali

eastwatch said:


> BVR technology is in demand throughout the world's air forces, no doubt. But this technology is not any advantage in real air wars. BVR missiles miss nine times out of ten shootings.



Not true at all now as the technology is better than before.

F-22 virtually completely relies in bvr missiles to defeat opponents.

Anyway planes usually fire more than one bvr missile to increase chance of hit.


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## eastwatch

UKBengali said:


> Not true at all now as the technology is better than before.
> 
> F-22 virtually completely relies in bvr missiles to defeat opponents.
> 
> Anyway planes usually fire more than one bvr missile to increase chance of hit.



Past war records since the start of Vietnam war era show BVR average killing rate is very low. 

The enemy plane always moves away from its position at which point the BVR is fired. So, the rate of BVR killing success so far is only 2.8%. The overall success is the percentage of BVR kills based on total radar BVR missile firings. 

The percentage was much lower until Bekaa Valley war. It only improved to 2.8% because the Iraqi pilots were inefficient to counter the attacks in the Desert Storm.

The percentage of radar missile kill was 13.5%, but not all the killings were by firing Beyond Visual Range or about 37 km away. BVR killing was only 2.8% and including non-BVR radar missile the killing was 13.5%.

Even multiple firing of BVR radar missiles does not guarantee a much better killing although Russia and USA both are developing bigger planes that can carry many BVR radar missiles.

Well, BVR is not a hoax, but its real performance does not warrant a big spending on its procurement.


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## BDforever

eastwatch said:


> Past war records since the start of Vietnam war era show BVR average killing rate is very low.
> 
> The enemy plane always moves away from its position at which point the BVR is fired. So, the rate of BVR killing success so far is only 2.8%. The overall success is the percentage of BVR kills based on total radar BVR missile firings.
> 
> The percentage was much lower until Bekaa Valley war. It only improved to 2.8% because the Iraqi pilots were inefficient to counter the attacks in the Desert Storm.
> 
> The percentage of radar missile kill was 13.5%, but not all the killings were by firing Beyond Visual Range or about 37 km away. BVR killing was only 2.8% and including non-BVR radar missile the killing was 13.5%.
> 
> Even multiple firing of BVR radar missiles does not guarantee a much better killing although Russia and USA both are developing bigger planes that can carry many BVR radar missiles.
> 
> Well, BVR is not a hoax, but its real performance does not warrant a big spending on its procurement.



LOL bro....you are giving vietnam war reference?  that was because that time Guided Missile system was not available.


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## eastwatch

BDforever said:


> LOL bro....you are giving vietnam war reference?  that was because that time Guided Missile system was not available.



No, no. Click on the BVR planes in the Internet, you will get many references. It is full of genuine research results by the military aviation experts. Study these and come to your own conclusion by yourself. It will not be very different than my own.

By the way, what air wars have been fought after Desert Storm? None, essentially. Only the result of this war has raised the killing rate to 2.8%. In case of Vietnam wars and Beeka Valley war the killing ratio is near 1%.

There are some fundamentals of physics that cannot be changed. One is the speed of a radar missile. Even if it is a fast 4 mach, it will take more than 40 seconds to reach the enemy plane at a 70 km distance. 40 second is a very long time. Even at a low 150 m/second climbing rate, a trained pilot will move the plane 6,000 m away in any direction. The radar missile will misfire, certainly.

The BVR radar has to lock the enemy plane before the missile can be fired. But, whenever an enemy plane is locked, the enemy plane's own radar starts warning the pilot. The Iraqi pilots in the Desert Storm did not steer away their planes because they were not properly trained. So, desert storm has a better record of killing by BVR missile.

An experienced pilot would immediately move his plane away and the radar/BVR missile will fail to hit his plane.


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## UKBengali

eastwatch said:


> There are some fundamentals of physics that cannot be changed. One is the speed of a radar missile. Even if it is a fast 4 mach, it will take more than 40 seconds to reach the enemy plane at a 70 km distance. 40 second is a very long time. Even at a low 150 m/second climbing rate, a trained pilot will move the plane 6,000 m away in any direction. The radar missile will misfire, certainly.
> 
> The BVR radar has to lock the enemy plane before the missile can be fired. But, whenever an enemy plane is locked, the enemy plane's own radar starts warning the pilot. The Iraqi pilots in the Desert Storm did not steer away their planes because they were not properly trained. So, desert storm has a better record of killing by BVR missile.
> 
> An experienced pilot would immediately move his plane away and the radar/BVR missile will fail to hit his plane.



No, no that is not the way it works.

A BVR missile fired towards a plane will get constant updates from the fighter's radar so any change in the enemy plane's position will be taken account of.

You are still relying on war records from mainly 40 or more years ago when BVR missile technology was still in it's infancy. In the Bekaa valley 30 years ago, the reason why BVR was not used more was that the two sides were so close to each other, it was safer to visually identify the enemy plane visually before firing a missile at it.

It is true that BVR is not the only way to fight but without it you will have a serious handicap. Pakistan in the Kargil war did not dare send it's non-BVR F-16s up against Indian BVR capable Mirage-2000 or Mig-29s as it was not confident they could engage the Indian planes with a decent chance of success.

Like it or not, BVR is essential in fighter planes nowadays.


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## eastwatch

UKBengali said:


> No, no that is not the way it works.
> 
> A BVR missile fired towards a plane will get constant updates from the fighter's radar so any change in the enemy plane's position will be taken account of.
> 
> You are still relying on war records from mainly 40 or more years ago when BVR missile technology was still in it's infancy. In the Bekaa valley 30 years ago, the reason why BVR was not used more was that the two sides were so close to each other, it was safer to visually identify the enemy plane visually before firing a missile at it.
> 
> It is true that BVR is not the only way to fight but without it you will have a serious handicap. Pakistan in the Kargil war did not dare send it's non-BVR F-16s up against Indian BVR capable Mirage-2000 or Mig-29s as it was not confident they could engage the Indian planes with a decent chance of success.
> 
> Like it or not, BVR is essential in fighter planes nowadays.



Let us assume you are correct, but why the past record is so dismal? The 2.8% killing I have noted in my previous post is not actually Beyond Visual (BVR) killings, but many are Within Visual Range (WVR) killings, but by the radar missiles.

If you are correct that the BVR missiles will keep on tracking the enemy planes for a long time in the sky, then why it is necessary to fire many radar missiles simultaneously? One radar missile is enough to kill one enemy plane, isn't it?

It is not personal liking or disliking. I am talking facts. BVR should certainly be fitted, because it causes the enemy plane to run away from its main mission of bombing the vital assets. But, it does not kill that much. This is why the planes are also fitted with heat seeking missiles and machine guns. 

Not withstanding that BVR is also needed, I must say the past wars upto Desert Storm have shown a very bad killing results of the BVR radar missiles. Heat seeking missiles and cannon or machine gun fires have much more killing rates. 

When both the sides have BVR capable planes the outcome of air battles will depend on the non-BVR attacks.


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## UKBengali

eastwatch said:


> Let us assume you are correct, but why the past record is so dismal? The 2.8% killing I have noted in my previous post is not actually Beyond Visual (BVR) killings, but many are Within Visual Range (WVR) killings, but by the radar missiles.



I am repeating myself but it is to do with immature BVR technology in past wars. In the Bekaa valley, BVR was mature but was not used as the fighters were so close to each other anyway in the crowded Lebanese skies.





eastwatch said:


> If you are correct that the BVR missiles will keep on tracking the enemy planes for a long time in the sky, then why it is necessary to fire many radar missiles simultaneously? One radar missile is enough to kill one enemy plane, isn't it?



One BVR missile may have 50% chance of destroying the opposing plane while with 2 the success rate goes up to 80%. You need to make sure that you definitely shoot-down the other plane so no harm in using 2 out of your 6-8 BVR missiles that your plane carries.



eastwatch said:


> It is not personal liking or disliking. I am talking facts. BVR should certainly be fitted, because it causes the enemy plane to run away from its main mission of bombing the vital assets. But, it does not kill that much. This is why the planes are also fitted with heat seeking missiles and machine guns.



BVR planes are still fitted with WVR missiles and guns as you need weapons when you are up close to dog-fight. BVR will not always win the fight for you 100% of the time but that does not mean it won't take out 80% of the enemy planes before you even see them.





eastwatch said:


> When both the sides have BVR capable planes the outcome of air battles will depend on the non-BVR attacks.



No, no, no.

Let us say you have 12 BVR panes in total. 6 on each side closing in on the other.

Chances are most of the 12 planes would be shot down by BVR missiles before any of the survivors can get within WVR range.


----------



## eastwatch

UKBengali said:


> 1) I am repeating myself but it is to do with immature BVR technology in past wars. In the Bekaa valley, BVR was mature but was not used as the fighters were so close to each other anyway in the crowded Lebanese skies.
> 
> 2) One BVR missile may have 50% chance of destroying the opposing plane while with 2 the success rate goes up to 80%. You need to make sure that you definitely shoot-down the other plane so no harm in using 2 out of your 6-8 BVR missiles that your plane carries.
> 
> 3) BVR planes are still fitted with WVR missiles and guns as you need weapons when you are up close to dog-fight. BVR will not always win the fight for you 100% of the time but that does not mean it won't take out 80% of the enemy planes before you even see them.
> 
> 4) Chances are most of the 12 planes would be shot down by BVR missiles before any of the survivors can get within WVR range.



1) The average BVR killing record *so far* is only 2.8% of the total firings. Who told you there was no BVR firings in the 1982 Bekaa valley air war? There were a total of 23 BVR missile fires that killed only one plane. The BVR killing is only 4.3% or one killing. Please read that war history before you come with denials. 

2) So, one BVR missile may not have more than 2.8% or less chance of killing an enemy plane.

3) There are radar missiles, when fired at about 37 km distance or beyond are called BVR missiles. When fired and killed from within visual distance even by radar missiles it is no more called a BVR killing. It is called Within Visual Range (WVR) killing even if radar missiles were used. 

4) No, not all the planes will be killed at BVR distance. The past war records show not even one plane will be killed by one BVR missile depending upon the situation. This is why the BVR killing rate is so low. The warring planes are not static bodies. They move at near Mach-1 speeds. 

The radar of the enemy plane immediately gives warning signals to the pilot and he takes the plane away from the path of incoming BVR or WVR missiles. When the enemy plane is far off, say, at 40 km distance, the enemy pilot may even neglect the incoming BVR missile, because it will miss and only by luck it will hit. This is why the rate of killing is 2.8% or less.


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## Rokto14

UKBengali said:


> Not true at all now as the technology is better than before.
> 
> F-22 virtually completely relies in bvr missiles to defeat opponents.
> 
> Anyway planes usually fire more than one bvr missile to increase chance of hit.



Really? How the fighter jets even do that?


----------



## M.H.J.

Bangladesh Air Force Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum in Ukraine for Overhauling & Upgrading work . 







Date : 13-5-13







All our MiGs will be upgraded into SMT standard ...



Link : Air Force | SkyPhotos.Ru 



  





- MHJ ...

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## Bamboo Castle

M.H.J. said:


> Bangladesh Air Force Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum in Ukraine for Overhauling & Upgrading work .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date : 13-5-13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All our MiGs will be upgraded into SMT standard ...
> 
> Link : Air Force | SkyPhotos.Ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...



The Migs are at Ukraine for their overhauling program. This overhaul does not include upgrade to SMT standard.


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## eastwatch

Bamboo Castle said:


> The Migs are at Ukraine for their overhauling program. This overhaul does not include upgrade to SMT standard.



So, where the upgrading to SMT grade will take place. Is it in Bd or in Ukraine? and what is the time schedule, when the upgrading job will start?


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## Zabaniyah

Ukraine only offer overhaul services. Not upgrades. 

For upgrades, they have to go to Russia.

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## Edward McArth

SMT upgrades will be done considering it to make it airworthy till 2030 so definitely it will be done at Russia.

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## Allah Akbar

i love this new colour.probably some dent paint job done too. old colour was blue basic this is green combat . i love this new camo suit . the mig looks pretty now

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## DauD0

warrantofficer said:


> i love this new colour.probably some dent paint job done too. old colour was blue basic this is green combat . i love this new camo suit . the mig looks pretty now



I like your idea but I think this planes are without paintjobs on them, you can't see any logos on its body. Besides for best camouflage blue is better suited provided the jets themselves are efficient, the colour green are best for land vehicles.

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## Zabaniyah

warrantofficer said:


> i love this new colour.probably some dent paint job done too. old colour was blue basic this is green combat . i love this new camo suit . the mig looks pretty now



Oh...that is no paint job


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## Rokto14

Loki said:


> Oh...that is no paint job


Then?? Why is the colour green?


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## Allah Akbar

bro tell us more info . lol i never saw this colour of mig before in bd inventory. then what is it actualy 


Loki said:


> Oh...that is no paint job


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## Zabaniyah

Rokto14 said:


> Then?? Why is the colour green?





warrantofficer said:


> bro tell us more info . lol i never saw this colour of mig before in bd inventory. then what is it actualy



There is no paint  

What you're seeing is the paint being removed for maintenance.

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## Zabaniyah

eastwatch said:


> 1) The average BVR killing record *so far* is only 2.8% of the total firings. Who told you there was no BVR firings in the 1982 Bekaa valley air war? There were a total of 23 BVR missile fires that killed only one plane. The BVR killing is only 4.3% or one killing. Please read that war history before you come with denials.
> 
> 2) So, one BVR missile may not have more than 2.8% or less chance of killing an enemy plane.
> 
> 3) There are radar missiles, when fired at about 37 km distance or beyond are called BVR missiles. When fired and killed from within visual distance even by radar missiles it is no more called a BVR killing. It is called Within Visual Range (WVR) killing even if radar missiles were used.
> 
> 4) No, not all the planes will be killed at BVR distance. The past war records show not even one plane will be killed by one BVR missile depending upon the situation. This is why the BVR killing rate is so low. The warring planes are not static bodies. They move at near Mach-1 speeds.
> 
> The radar of the enemy plane immediately gives warning signals to the pilot and he takes the plane away from the path of incoming BVR or WVR missiles. When the enemy plane is far off, say, at 40 km distance, the enemy pilot may even neglect the incoming BVR missile, because it will miss and only by luck it will hit. This is why the rate of killing is 2.8% or less.



I understand what you are implying. 

Much of the newer BVR missiles are much more superior than the previous versions. As far as air-to-air missiles go, I recommend going through this very informative thread: 
http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/19447-air-air-missiles-command-air.html

If you are implying the R-27 variants currently used on BAF MiG-29's; yeah, they are pretty much garbage. 

Making a good BVR missile can be notoriously difficult.

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## BDforever

Newly inducted Mi171sh of BAF

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## Mattrixx

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=214997658643949





Ground attack of F-7BG Bangladesh Air force



BDforever said:


> Newly inducted Mi171sh of BAF



Awesome

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## mil-avia

*Cool photos of BAF shot by Faisal Akram Ether.*

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## monitor

Mattrixx said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=214997658643949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ground attack of F-7BG Bangladesh Air force
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome



Is it some kind of bomb or fuel tank on the both side of heli ?


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## BDforever

monitor said:


> Is it some kind of bomb or fuel tank on the both side of heli ?



fuel tank


----------



## Banglar Bagh



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## Mattrixx

Bangladesh Air Force - YouTube






bangladesh air force theme-nirveek bimanshena - YouTube

Bangladesh Paracommandos - YouTube

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## Mattrixx

Can anyone specify how many yak 130s BD is actually purchasing. 24 or 55.
And can they perform same like Mig 29s. As yak 130 and Mig 29s are both 4+ generation fighter planes.

Irkut: Bangladesh to purchase Yak-130 jets - Military Forces of Asia


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## BDforever

Mattrixx said:


> Can anyone specify how many yak 130s BD is actually purchasing. 24 or 55.
> And can they perform same like Mig 29s. As yak 130 and Mig 29s are both 4+ generation fighter planes.
> 
> Irkut: Bangladesh to purchase Yak-130 jets - Military Forces of Asia



24 Yak130 (it is trainer+ light attack) , Mig29 is fighter aircraft.
that 55 yak 130 for Russian air force, read it carefully

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## hurt

J-7 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6yGxP9Gix1ZdWRRUGRBWUFTVWs/edit?usp=sharing

From http://www.hobbyshanghai.com.cn/

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## bigbossman



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## DESERT FIGHTER

kobiraaz said:


> Thats MBT2000 from China .... Al khalid is Pakistani variation of MBT2000.



Lol.. buddy thts a pic of PAs Al khalid mbt...


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## mil-avia

*Cool pictures of BAF taken by Shabbir A. Bashar, PhD :












Related link 1 and link 2. *

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## mil-avia

*Images titled "Bangladesh Air Force" in JetPhotos.Net :


1342 × 516 pixels


Related link(s). *

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## BDforever

F7-BG at night with max after burn ...

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## Zabaniyah

^^very noisy

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*MiG29K*

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*F-7MB*

























*F-7BG*

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## Bamboo Castle

abdullah123 said:


> Wouldn't Chinese planes from the J-10 upwards be more appropriate for bangladesh?
> 
> They are cheaper.
> 
> Lower maintainence (single engine)
> 
> Similar technology to Western planes
> 
> Less political strings
> 
> No kill-switch
> 
> *Saudi Arabia discovered that their F-15s had a kill-switch prgrammed into their IFF, radar and mission computer systems. This meant that if the Saudis wanted to target Israeli or American planes, the IFF and mission computer would fail to lock-on to their planes.*
> 
> How would Bangladesh ensure similar kill-switches are not programmed into it's American equipment?



Bold statement: can you please give us a source confirming that?

I think it will not be a good option. 
Out bordering countries armed themselves with Su-30, Mig-29 and Mirage 2000. J-10 is not a good platform for dog-fighting. In a BVR range even the Mig-21Bison would do the job but who fires at BVR range? 80% of the AA missiles fired till date are fired from WVR range in a dogfight. 

To tackle Su-30, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 we need Mig-29SMT or upper-hands like Su-27SM2 or Su-30MK or Mig-29MRCA or F-16EF which are equally good in both BVR and WVR AA fighting.

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## Zabaniyah

@abdullah123
US planes don't have "kill-switches".




Bamboo Castle said:


> Bold statement: can you please give us a source confirming that?
> 
> I think it will not be a good option.
> Out bordering countries armed themselves with Su-30, Mig-29 and Mirage 2000. *J-10 is not a good platform for dog-fighting.* In a BVR range even the Mig-21Bison would do the job but who fires at BVR range? 80% of the AA missiles fired till date are fired from WVR range in a dogfight.
> 
> To tackle Su-30, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 we need Mig-29SMT or upper-hands like Su-27SM2 or Su-30MK or Mig-29MRCA or F-16EF which are equally good in both BVR and WVR AA fighting.



Now that's equally a bold statement

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## Mattrixx

BAF 25 SQN TRENDSETTERS - YouTube

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## Mattrixx

BAF Surface to Air Missile System(SHORAD)
1x BAF FM-90 Battalion and its Radar Unit
Each FM-90 Missile carrier holds 4 Missiles with each battalion consisting of 3 or more carriers and one radar unit
Specs:
Missile dimensions: (length) 3.00 m; (diameter) 0.156 m; 
(wingspan) 0.55 m
Launch weight: 84.5 kg
Operating altitude: 15~6,000 m (FM-90)
Minimum operating range:700 m (FM-90)
Max operating range: 15,000 m to all targets
Speed: Mach 2.3 (750 m/s)
Guidance: Command + electro-optical tracking
Warhead: HE-FRAG with proximity fuse
Radar detecting range: 18.4 km (HQ-7/FM-80); 25 km (FM-90)
Radar homing range: 17 km (HQ-7/FM-80); 20 km (FM-90)

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## Bamboo Castle

Mattrixx said:


> BAF Surface to Air Missile System(SHORAD)
> 1x BAF FM-90 Battalion and its Radar Unit
> Each FM-90 Missile carrier holds 4 Missiles with each battalion consisting of 3 or more carriers and one radar unit
> Specs:
> Missile dimensions: (length) 3.00 m; (diameter) 0.156 m;
> (wingspan) 0.55 m
> Launch weight: 84.5 kg
> Operating altitude: 15~6,000 m (FM-90)
> Minimum operating range:700 m (FM-90)
> Max operating range: 15,000 m to all targets
> Speed: Mach 2.3 (750 m/s)
> Guidance: Command + electro-optical tracking
> Warhead: HE-FRAG with proximity fuse
> Radar detecting range: 18.4 km (HQ-7/FM-80); 25 km (FM-90)
> Radar homing range: 17 km (HQ-7/FM-80); 20 km (FM-90)



I'm not sure but don't we have 2 battalions?


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## Bamboo Castle



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## Bamboo Castle

*The mig-29 is sometimes referred as the Flying Tank. Then, what would you call this??*

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## fatman17

Bamboo Castle said:


> *The mig-29 is sometimes referred as the Flying Tank. Then, what would you call this??*



MiG-29.....

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## fatman17

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> *F-7MB*



in the top pic, whats the construction material in the background - future HAS?


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## BDforever

Bamboo Castle said:


> I'm not sure but don't we have 2 battalions?



yes we have 2 battalions

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## Anubis



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## jhonjames

The following table lists the active and former aircraft of the Bangladesh Air Force


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## eastwatch

Bamboo Castle said:


> I'm not sure but don't we have 2 battalions?



Whatever may be the numbers of battalion, but how many units of missiles are there in one battalion? By seeing the picture I understand there are four number of missiles in one SHORAD System. Can someone explain this?


----------



## applesauce

Bamboo Castle said:


> Bold statement: can you please give us a source confirming that?
> 
> I think it will not be a good option.
> Out bordering countries armed themselves with Su-30, Mig-29 and Mirage 2000. J-10 is not a good platform for dog-fighting. In a BVR range even the Mig-21Bison would do the job but who fires at BVR range? 80% of the AA missiles fired till date are fired from WVR range in a dogfight.
> 
> To tackle Su-30, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 we need Mig-29SMT or upper-hands like Su-27SM2 or Su-30MK or Mig-29MRCA or F-16EF which are equally good in both BVR and WVR AA fighting.




what are you talking about?
in PLAAF, the j-10 routinely spanks the j-11 and su-30 in air to air combat, j-10A is said by PLAAF to be close to early f-16 models but slighter better in electronics, while the j-10B is suppose to match or exceed late model f-16s

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## Bamboo Castle

eastwatch said:


> Whatever may be the numbers of battalion, but how many units of missiles are there in one battalion? By seeing the picture I understand there are four number of missiles in one SHORAD System. Can someone explain this?



Usually one battalion stands for 6 launch vehicles and a radar unit. But I do not know the system of Bangladesh air force.

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## Bamboo Castle

applesauce said:


> what are you talking about?
> in PLAAF, the j-10 routinely spanks the j-11 and su-30 in air to air combat, j-10A is said by PLAAF to be close to early f-16 models but slighter better in electronics, while the j-10B is suppose to match or exceed late model f-16s



Well, if your J-10 spanks your J-11 and Su-30 then, we can understand the quality of Chines made Su-27 variants.. However, what you are saying is not true. J-10A/B are good platform in BVR range but is not any match for Su-27/J-11/Su-30. Because, When it comes to quality, super-maneuverability, Electronic capability, weapons technology and dog-fighting ability then the ranking goes very much like the following:

Best: F-22, PAK-FA, Su-35BM

Better: Su-27SM, Su-30MK, Su-35, Mig-35, EF-2000, Deausalt Rafale, F-15SE

Very Good: F/A-18EF, F-16EF, F-15C, Mig-29SMT/M/M2/K, Su-27SK, Su-30, Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2, JAS-39NG

Great: Mirage-2000N/D/-5, Mig-29S/SE/SM, Su-27, F/A-18C/D, F-16C/D, J-10B, JAS-39

Good: Mirage-2000, Mig-29B, F/A-18A/B, F-16A/B, J-10A, F-15, Tornado GR-4

Average: JF-17, HAL TEJAS, AV-8B, Tornado, Mirage F-1, AIDC *****-1

Trying to keep up: J-7BGI/BG/G/G2, Mig-21Bison, Mirage-3/5 Rose

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## british_bengali

Bamboo Castle said:


> Well, if your J-10 spanks your J-11 and Su-30 then, we can understand the quality of Chines made Su-27 variants.. However, what you are saying is not true. J-10A/B are good platform in BVR range but is not any match for Su-27/J-11/Su-30. Because, When it comes to quality, super-maneuverability, Electronic capability, weapons technology and dog-fighting ability then the ranking goes very much like the following:
> 
> Best: F-22, PAK-FA, Su-35BM
> 
> Better: Su-27SM, Su-30MK, Su-35, Mig-35, EF-2000, Deausalt Rafale, F-15SE
> 
> Very Good: F/A-18EF, F-16EF, F-15C, Mig-29SMT/M/M2/K, Su-27SK, Su-30, Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2, JAS-39NG
> 
> Great: Mirage-2000N/D/-5, Mig-29S/SE/SM, Su-27, F/A-18C/D, F-16C/D, J-10B, JAS-39
> 
> Good: Mirage-2000, Mig-29B, F/A-18A/B, F-16A/B, J-10A, F-15, Tornado GR-4
> 
> Average: JF-17, HAL TEJAS, AV-8B, Tornado, Mirage F-1, AIDC *****-1
> 
> Trying to keep up: J-7BGI/BG/G/G2, Mig-21Bison, Mirage-3/5 Rose



A would not say Su-27 is greater in terms of maneverability,a chinese senior general has said a J-10 has been able to perform maneuvers such as the pugachevs cobra due to the fact that the J-10 isn't restricted by speed as much as the su-27 due to the J-10 FBW FCS(Fly By Wire Flight Control Sytem) 
Also as far as quality of chinese su-27s goes, there are very little defects as of now and this has been quoted by russian arms manufacturers as being the reason for tough competition in the arms industry to to chinese arms being the same quality as russians by cheaper.


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## Mattrixx

BDforever said:


> yes we have 2 battalions



But BAF 1 and BD army 1. Isnt it ?


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## BDforever

Mattrixx said:


> But BAF 1 and BD army 1. Isnt it ?



no, both for BAF


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## Zabaniyah

Bamboo Castle said:


> Well, if your J-10 spanks your J-11 and Su-30 then, we can understand the quality of Chines made Su-27 variants..



From where did you come up with such a conclusion?

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## Zabaniyah

PLAAF's 1st aerobatics team:

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## Bamboo Castle

Loki said:


> From where did you come up with such a conclusion?



Just check out both the aircraft's TOW, T/W ration, engine capability, max g tolerance, min radius turn @ max speed ratio, FBW systems, electronics on board, radar, endurance, max range, max had-points, weapons mix, avionics mix, top speed, acceleration, deceleration, trans-sonic shock resistance etc... and you will know why I said so....


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## Bamboo Castle



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## hurt

Bamboo Castle said:


> Well, if your J-10 spanks your J-11 and Su-30 then, we can understand the quality of Chines made Su-27 variants.. However, what you are saying is not true. J-10A/B are good platform in BVR range but is not any match for Su-27/J-11/Su-30. Because, When it comes to quality, super-maneuverability, Electronic capability, weapons technology and dog-fighting ability then the ranking goes very much like the following:
> 
> Best: F-22, PAK-FA, Su-35BM
> 
> Better: Su-27SM, Su-30MK, Su-35, Mig-35, EF-2000, Deausalt Rafale, F-15SE
> 
> Very Good: F/A-18EF, F-16EF, F-15C, Mig-29SMT/M/M2/K, Su-27SK, Su-30, Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2, JAS-39NG
> 
> Great: Mirage-2000N/D/-5, Mig-29S/SE/SM, Su-27, F/A-18C/D, F-16C/D, J-10B, JAS-39
> 
> Good: Mirage-2000, Mig-29B, F/A-18A/B, F-16A/B, J-10A, F-15, Tornado GR-4
> 
> Average: JF-17, HAL TEJAS, AV-8B, Tornado, Mirage F-1, AIDC *****-1
> 
> Trying to keep up: J-7BGI/BG/G/G2, Mig-21Bison, Mirage-3/5 Rose



I only tell you that all of PLAAFs su-30s are made by Russian.


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## Bamboo Castle

hurt said:


> I only tell you that PLAAFs su-30s are made by Russian.



According to an official US report, Mig-21Bison on IAF had a 60% kill ratio against US F-16 in a joint exercise between USA and India. That doesn't make the Mig-21bison superior to F-16... So, J-10 having some kill against some simulated war scenario does not make j-10 superior over su-27/30... J-10 needs much more upgrade to come in par with Su-27


----------



## hurt

Bamboo Castle said:


> According to an official US report, Mig-21Bison on IAF had a 60% kill ratio against US F-16 in a joint exercise between USA and India. That doesn't make the Mig-21bison superior to F-16... So, J-10 having some kill against some simulated war scenario does not make j-10 superior over su-27/30... J-10 needs much more upgrade to come in par with Su-27



J-10As weak point is armament capabilities.
At least J-10A is better than Su-27Sk in quality,Electronic capability and weapons technology.
As dog-fighting ability , J-10A can do Pugachev's Cobra too.


----------



## hurt

Bamboo Castle said:


> According to an official US report, Mig-21Bison on IAF had a 60% kill ratio against US F-16 in a joint exercise between USA and India. That doesn't make the Mig-21bison superior to F-16... So, J-10 having some kill against some simulated war scenario does not make j-10 superior over su-27/30... J-10 needs much more upgrade to come in par with Su-27


In exercise between USA and India. There only dog-fight for fair play.
But There is really competition in PLAAF Between J-10 and others. I only tell your J-10A better than Original Su-27sk in air fight.


----------



## hurt

Bamboo Castle said:


> According to an official US report, Mig-21Bison on IAF had a 60% kill ratio against US F-16 in a joint exercise between USA and India. That doesn't make the Mig-21bison superior to F-16... So, J-10 having some kill against some simulated war scenario does not make j-10 superior over su-27/30... J-10 needs much more upgrade to come in par with Su-27



In early exercise between J-10A and J-11&#65288;Su-27Sk made by rassian and china&#65289; ,J-10A always is the winner.
Now J-11B and J-11A&#65288;Su-27Sk made by china update version&#65289; is better ,because with better Electronic capability than J-10A.


----------



## drunken-monke

Self delete


----------



## jamesseo89

Does BAF planning to get Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17/J-10s???



Bamboo Castle said:


>



Will BAF buy older A-5C as spares from PAF.


----------



## drunken-monke

boltu said:


> I would like to see BAF procuring at least 8 Migs to make a full functional squadron,maintaining half of a squadron doesn't make sense(Khajna theke bajna beshi) !!
> If BNP scraps the deal then there'll be some serious protests from inside BAF.It'd be great if BNP makes new deals with China without scrapping the Russian ones.Then we'll have a Chinese-Russian combination,,,Chinese fighters for India,Russian Fighters for Burma



And do you think IAF as threat to Bangladesh??


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## Anubis

jamesseo89 said:


> Does BAF planning to get Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17/J-10s???



Nope.....we just struck a deal for YAK130 trainers with Russia....so the possibility is to buy SU30s later on!As for Mushaks we use PT6s now....they will probably be replaced by YAK152s!



jamesseo89 said:


> Does BAF planning to get Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17/J-10s???
> 
> 
> 
> Will BAF buy older A-5C as spares from PAF.



No.......we will replace the A5s with our F7MBs!

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## jamesseo89

bigbossman said:


>



Upgrade them to MPA standard with latest tech from EU countries.

Or like buy some new ones.. make them MPAs...


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## Bamboo Castle

jamesseo89 said:


> Does BAF planning to get Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17/J-10s???
> 
> 
> 
> Will BAF buy older A-5C as spares from PAF.



Bangladesh is retiring those A-5 after 2014 and onward..... We can give you some F-7M if you need for spare-parts. You can also fly them, they are still flight worthy...



drunken-monke said:


> And do you think IAF as threat to Bangladesh??



IAF has been a threat to Bangladesh since the birth of India in 1947...

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## Luftwaffe

jamesseo89 said:


> Does BAF planning to get Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17/J-10s???



Nope, BAF is going to buy russian Basic Trainers and for Advance Training and point of defense aircrafts YAK 131/133 [variant of yak130 with a2a/a2g capabilities]



> Will BAF buy older A-5C as spares from PAF.



Nope A-5C will be retired by early 2014

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## drunken-monke

Bamboo Castle said:


> Bangladesh is retiring those A-5 after 2014 and onward..... We can give you some F-7M if you need for spare-parts. You can also fly them, they are still flight worthy...
> 
> 
> 
> IAF has been a threat to Bangladesh since the birth of India in 1947...



Nope it was East Pakistan first. Its been bangladesh since 16th Dec 1971 (hope i know the date correctly)... I dont think we have significant amount of IAF bases/squadrans in the eastern theater apart from Tezpur at Assam which is China centric... 

Please ellaborate how IAF is threat to BD since 1971....

regards


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## british_bengali

Most bengalis think India is a threat. 

However, In my opinion, were not trying to match India since if we try, were going to bankrupt the country however we can be a deterrant and im sure India would rather have another stronger ally than one they have to take care of. Anyway,Myanmar is more of a realistic threat perception for the next five years and after that we should'nt really have a problem with them anymore.

However,India isn't a threat since they won't attack us under any circumstances and neither would be but it's smarter to prepare for all possible sceanarios.


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## drunken-monke

Avisheik said:


> Yak 130 is a trainer aircraft not a fighter and we trainers to train our boys to fly. Anyway why do you want to match up to the IAF rafale?? Our defence is not india(neither is burma) centered, if it is we will be digging our own graves. Bangladesh will buy the type of aircrafts according to its needs and doctorine, not engage in an arms race.
> 
> The purchase of long range SAM is very important for our military and our security. However we must learn how to crawl before we walk.
> 
> Bangladesh is building up its air defence network first. Then i think we will establish short range air defence system then move on to intermediate range before finally long range system.



One of the most sane post in this thread uptill now.. and correct knowledge of the situation as well...



british_bengali said:


> Most bengalis think India is a threat.
> 
> However, In my opinion, were not trying to match India since if we try, were going to bankrupt the country however we can be a deterrant and *im sure India would rather have another stronger ally than one they have to take care of*. Anyway,Myanmar is more of a realistic threat perception for the next five years and after that we should'nt really have a problem with them anymore.
> 
> However,*India isn't a threat since they won't attack us under any circumstances and neither would be but it's smarter to prepare for all possible sceanarios*.



I agree on the bold part..


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## mb444

We have land borders with two countries. Realistically these are the countries that we are likely to have a confrontation with as such I do not see how we can possibly claim that BD military development is not India and Burma centric. Our military posture is defensive but it must take into calculation where the threats are likely to come from


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## damiendehorn

drunken-monke said:


> I did asked a legitimate question and in reply to it, you used foul language..
> 
> Please contribute in positive way or keep away from offtopic discussion..
> 
> and by the way floods are natural disaster rather than man made.. Please referain from such absurd comments..
> 
> Mods please take care of the post...



Since you asked a logical question I will try to answer in the best way I possibly can.

There are multiple elements to consider here:

1. The governments perception
2. The military's perception
And
3. The general populations perception

Answer:

1. Bangladesh flitters between 2 very different parties, a Awami League government that historicaly considered India to be "it's" ally, now understand I emphasise the its to mean an ally of the awami league (AL) party here and not Bangladesh. It therefore formulates policies that are amicable to indian interests, and often is at variance with the interests of the nation. The AL, also vehemently hates anything to do with pakistan, this has nothing to do with the people's views but is just a personal view of the AL leadership (the pm blames the Pakistanis and the nationalist for the death of her family). To stay in power the party therefore has to always show india in a good light, pakistan in a bad light (that is why you constantly see the liberation struggle brought up in the media), and to build s.mujib into a cult figure by naming everything after him, this has the effect of falsely saying the AL solely got our independence and negating any contribution by others like Zia.

The other side is a nationalistic party, the BNP, which though may have the right objectives are often corrupt, incompetent and fractious. Naturally being a nationalistic party, it's objectives are focused on what is in the best interest of the nation, though you need to see the first part of this para to understand why people voted against them in the last election. Now here is the thing as the AL sees india as a ally to the AL party, naturally the BNP sees india and what ever party is in power there as a threat to the BNP and NOT to the nation.

2. The military or the Bangladesh Defence establishment, does not drastically change with each government (though, the AL has recently tried to promote officers it prefers and retire those, it disapproves of, it actually fears a strong army) and since the late 80s has become highly professional. This can be attributed to the constant UN work peacekeeping work we do, links builtup with US, European and East Asian defence establishments, (why you are unlikely to see any future military coups) and other structural changes.

Does the military see india as a threat? Of course it has to, that's the basic reason of any army, to guard against any and all potential external threat perception however unlikely. Do they think they can defeat india in a long term war, of course not, they are not that dumb, we have a VERY limited budget, around 7-8% indias defence budget, in fact we spend way less as a percentage of our GDP then most other nations. Neither political parties want to see, a too strong a military, so intentially keeps them underfunded and weak, in fact they allocate just enough to pay basic salaries and officers perks, the UN sweetens the pot.

3. Does the general population see india as a threat, no not in the since they think that india will invade, the public perception of India changes constantly, but generally it can be summed up as "we don't trust india". How is that? Well, around a quarter of the population supports india and the AL, they will not change their views whatever, usually they are older generation who lived under Pakistan, the 9% hindu population or have personal/financial interests to India/AL. The other side of the spectrum is the ultra nationalists (not ordinary nationalists mind you), religious based views etc, they constitute roughly a quarter of the population, who will always see india as a threat what ever happens.

That leaves half the population as "undecided", their perception tends to fluctuate from indifferent to hostile depending on the media news that relates to India and Bangladesh relations at any give time, how ever though they never seemed to be pro india, at best indifferent. So as I said the general population can be summed up as "we don't think india will invade, or is a threat, but we don't trust them".

I hope this helps.

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## ziaulislam

well i dont understand the BAF
1st they buy mig29. then they dump it and buy f-7s ..which is a very odd choice then they turn back to buy yak130 again..
thye should have brough just 6-12 gripens(if they hate pakistan enough to buy the FC-1) AND few trainers
ideally the cheapest and most effective package would have been k-8 and jf-17 combo..multirole, advance and very light and cheap to operate


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## damiendehorn

ziaulislam said:


> well i dont understand the BAF
> 1st they buy mig29. then they dump it and buy f-7s ..which is a very odd choice then they turn back to buy yak130 again..
> thye should have brough just 6-12 gripens(if they hate pakistan enough to buy the FC-1) AND few trainers
> ideally the cheapest and most effective package would have been k-8 and jf-17 combo..multirole, advance and very light and cheap to operate



Never gonna happen, Hasina hates pakistan and the AL gov are all a bunch of corrupt yes men. Their main task is to s***w as much wealth out of the nations coffers until they get booted out in the next election. Then it will be the turn of the next gov to do the same.

The amount they spend buying crap, useless and out of date hand me downs its pathetic. As I said before the government from which ever party is in power will never spend money on the military, they would much prefer a smaller force that would be no threat to them.

If the AL had their wish, they would disband the army altogether, just have a coast guard and border police.


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## Zabaniyah

ziaulislam said:


> well i dont understand the BAF
> *1st they buy mig29. then they dump it* and buy f-7s ..which is a very odd choice then they turn back to buy yak130 again..
> thye should have brough just 6-12 gripens(if they hate pakistan enough to buy the FC-1) AND few trainers
> ideally the cheapest and most effective package would have been k-8 and jf-17 combo..multirole, advance and very light and cheap to operate



They are still in service.


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## british_bengali

ziaulislam said:


> well i dont understand the BAF
> 1st they buy mig29. then they dump it and buy f-7s ..which is a very odd choice then they turn back to buy yak130 again..
> thye should have brough just 6-12 gripens(if they hate pakistan enough to buy the FC-1) AND few trainers
> ideally the cheapest and most effective package would have been k-8 and jf-17 combo..multirole, advance and very light and cheap to operate



1. Migs still in Service 
2.F-7BGI is a STOP-GAP figther which will stay in service until we have the neccassary funds and infrastructure to induct around 32 4.5 generation fighters(which won't we ordered until 2016) 
3)K-8 is an Intermediate trainer,YAK-130 is an advanced jet trainer. 
4)When given a chance,would a air force be given a chance to purchase 4.5 russian bird which has years of combat experiance or an untested aircraft.(Nothing wrong with the FC-1/JF-17,it's a great plane)


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## ziaulislam

yup mig29 still in service but reports are there that BAF is not happy with them..and want to sell them
if they do like mig29 then i think buying f-7s was a blunder they should have opted for few more mig29s
buying a second gen aircrafts serve no purpose these days
already BAF is not big nor has any strategic issue to buy things for stop gap

and noone is expecting them to buy FC-1 as its pakistani-chinese product and pakistan may not like selling too..!
yak130 pretty much similar to k-8 its too subsonic unlike the t-50 or chinese L-15 
and no idea why so worrying about advance jet trainers when they are buying f-7s behind the back

it seems no coherent strategy is being sseen


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## Bamboo Castle

drunken-monke said:


> Nope it was East Pakistan first. Its been bangladesh since 16th Dec 1971 (hope i know the date correctly)... I dont think we have significant amount of IAF bases/squadrans in the eastern theater apart from Tezpur at Assam which is China centric...
> 
> Please ellaborate how IAF is threat to BD since 1971....
> 
> regards



No, IAF is a threat for Bangladesh even before the Birth of Bangladesh. Before 71 IAF intruded in Pakistan in several occasions. After the birth IAF (not only IAF, it should be India) intruded inside Bangladesh on more than twice let alone the border killings. So, India is a threat for Bangladesh.

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## BDforever

ziaulislam said:


> yup mig29 still in service but reports are there that BAF is not happy with them..and want to sell them
> if they do like mig29 then i think buying f-7s was a blunder they should have opted for few more mig29s
> buying a second gen aircrafts serve no purpose these days
> already BAF is not big nor has any strategic issue to buy things for stop gap
> 
> and noone is expecting them to buy FC-1 as its pakistani-chinese product and pakistan may not like selling too..!
> yak130 pretty much similar to k-8 its too subsonic unlike the t-50 or chinese L-15
> and no idea why so worrying about advance jet trainers when they are buying f-7s behind the back
> 
> it seems no coherent strategy is being sseen


latest F-7BG1 is superior to your F-7PG and it has strategic issue because BD is going for 4.5 gen aircraft.
BD has long-term modernization plan, initially 16 Su-30 MKB (Bangladesh version) will join in BAF by 2016-2017. so buying yak-130 is logical.

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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> *latest F-7BG1 is superior to your F-7PG* and it has strategic issue because BD is going for 4.5 gen aircraft.
> BD has long-term modernization plan, initially 16 Su-30 MKB (Bangladesh version) will join in BAF by 2016-2017. so buying yak-130 is logical.



Based on what ?  

Specifications wagheraa tou compare kar ke bataa !


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## Bamboo Castle

british_bengali said:


> Most bengalis think India is a threat.
> 
> However, In my opinion, were not trying to match India since if we try, were going to bankrupt the country however we can be a deterrant and im sure India would rather have another stronger ally than one they have to take care of. Anyway,Myanmar is more of a realistic threat perception for the next five years and after that we should'nt really have a problem with them anymore.
> 
> However,India isn't a threat since they won't attack us under any circumstances and neither would be but it's smarter to prepare for all possible sceanarios.



Some Bengali's who live in UK having their either father or mother from India, does not like to accept India as a threat as if, they don't want to lose the opportunity of visiting their grandparents in India once a while in a year and have since that reason overlook all the killings, political violence, border killings, pact violations, treaty violations, border violations, import-export violations, destruction and all the mishaps done by India so far and all the mishaps yet to be done by India.

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## Bamboo Castle

ziaulislam said:


> yup mig29 still in service but *reports are there that BAF is not happy with them..and want to sell them*
> if they do like mig29 then i think buying f-7s was a blunder they should have opted for few more mig29s
> buying a second gen aircrafts serve no purpose these days
> already BAF is not big nor has any strategic issue to buy things for stop gap
> 
> and noone is expecting them to buy FC-1 as its pakistani-chinese product and *pakistan may not like selling too..!*
> yak130 pretty much similar to k-8 its too subsonic unlike the t-50 or chinese L-15
> and no idea why so worrying about advance jet trainers when they are buying f-7s behind the back
> 
> it seems no coherent strategy is being sseen



The first bold part: that is a news of 2005-2006. Then govt. because of political reason said they will sell the Mig-29s. Selling Mig-29 is a very old news. That idea has been dropped.

Second bold part: After finding 0 (zero) export customers, now Pakistan has changed the dialogue that it was made for PAF requirements only and Pakistan may not sell it to other nations....


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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> latest F-7BG1 is superior to your F-7PG and it has strategic issue because BD is going for 4.5 gen aircraft.
> BD has long-term modernization plan, initially 16 Su-30 MKB (Bangladesh version) will join in BAF by 2016-2017. so buying yak-130 is logical.



F-7BG1 is superior to F-7PG but still it is inferior to any 4th generation fighters, even JF-17 and LCA which are basically wanna be 4th gen.

16 Su-30 does not justify the purchase of 24 YAK-130. The general practice is 3:1 or 4:1 or 5:1 and in extreme cases 6:1. meaning for each LIFT the quantity of Fighter would be either 3 or 4 or 5 or 6. That gives you minimum 72 to maximum 144 fighters against 24 LIFT aircraft. 

There is still no confirmation about the type of fighter aircraft selected or to be selected. Su-30MK, Su-27SM, Mig-29SMT, Mig-29M/M2, F-16 block 50/52, JAS-39NG, F/A-18EF has been confirmed to have been evaluated. But none are confirmed yet.

In the trainer aircraft program JL-7, T-6 Texan 2, PC-9, EMB 314, Grob G 120, KT-1 Woongbi is considered to be evaluated.


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## drunken-monke

Bamboo Castle said:


> No, IAF is a threat for Bangladesh even before the Birth of Bangladesh. Before 71 IAF intruded in Pakistan in several occasions. After the birth IAF (not only IAF, it should be India) intruded inside Bangladesh on more than twice let alone the border killings. So, India is a threat for Bangladesh.



Border killing of civillians who are trying to intrude in the Indian side is different case altogather... This cant be the basis of India being a threat. Please go through the post #762 by damiendehorn.. he has elaborated everything clearly on my queries..

I have been throught with your post in this forum. What i have found is you are anti India (its your choice offcource) rather than being rational in justice...


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## Bamboo Castle

drunken-monke said:


> Border killing of civillians who are trying to intrude in the Indian side is different case altogather... This cant be the basis of India being a threat. Please go through the post #762 by damiendehorn.. he has elaborated everything clearly on my queries..
> 
> I have been throught with your post in this forum. What i have found is you are anti India (its your choice offcource) rather than being rational in justice...



I am not anti India.. I am anti intruder, no matter what country that intruded in Bangladesh. And India is a frequent intruder.

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## ziaulislam

Bamboo Castle said:


> The first bold part: that is a news of 2005-2006. Then govt. because of political reason said they will sell the Mig-29s. Selling Mig-29 is a very old news. That idea has been dropped.
> 
> Second bold part: After finding 0 (zero) export customers, now Pakistan has changed the dialogue that it was made for PAF requirements only and Pakistan may not sell it to other nations....


not related to topic but google it.
after eygpt offical statement of interest in co production. Argentina has also given offical staement in interest of co production. already competing in serbia aircraft competition.
any person will know that aircraft buying and negotiation takes 5-6 years. so far the reults are too good. i mean so many countries negotating!
lastly, forr any fighter aircraft the goal is not to export but fullfil own requirements. JF-17 1st pirority was for PAF, rest is optional (unlike su 30 which was primarily produced for export). *lastly my point of not want to selling was specific for BAF coz of the "indian connection"*

what i said that instead of buying 16 f-7s today it would have been better to buyadditional su 30s
BAF doesnt has immediate threats to go on going "stop gaps measures" besides it already had mig29 for that role

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## ziaulislam

Bamboo Castle said:


> F-7BG1 is superior to F-7PG but still it is inferior to any 4th generation fighters, even JF-17 and LCA which are basically wanna be 4th gen.


yup a 4 million $ 1950 design AC with turbojet engine and limited fuel is superior to 4th gen Aircrafts..
its just like saying a rukshaw is better than a BMW
f-7s are down and out* old generation aircrafts*
no matter what u do u simply cant put a better radar or avionics because of the engine
a modern engine like rd 93 costs 3-4 million $ ,ge404 of LCA costs 10 million$
BAF should either go for mig29s or sell their mig29 and buy su30 to keep the costs down of multiple plateforms
they should also consider older refurbished f-16s


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## Bamboo Castle

ziaulislam said:


> yup a 4 million $ 1950 design AC with turbojet engine and limited fuel is superior to 4th gen Aircrafts..
> its just like saying a rukshaw is better than a BMW
> f-7s are down and out* old generation aircrafts*
> no matter what u do u simply cant put a better radar or avionics because of the engine
> a modern engine like rd 93 costs 3-4 million $ ,ge404 of LCA costs 10 million$
> BAF should either go for mig29s or sell their mig29 and buy su30 to keep the costs down of multiple plateforms
> they should also consider older refurbished f-16s



You just elaborated the line I said in short one sentence.. anyway thanks...

BAF is trying not to follow the PAF path and buy old junks...


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## drunken-monke

Bamboo Castle said:


> I am not anti India.. I am anti intruder, no matter what country that intruded in Bangladesh. And India is a frequent intruder.



Hmmm...... So India often intrude Bangladesh!!


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## Anubis

@drunken-monke @Bamboo Castle can you guys please take the argument to a political thread.Please leave this sticky to Air Force discussion only.


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## Anubis

ziaulislam said:


> not related to topic but google it.
> after eygpt offical statement of interest in co production. Argentina has also given offical staement in interest of co production. already competing in serbia aircraft competition.
> any person will know that aircraft buying and negotiation takes 5-6 years. so far the reults are too good. i mean so many countries negotating!
> lastly, forr any fighter aircraft the goal is not to export but fullfil own requirements. JF-17 1st pirority was for PAF, rest is optional (unlike su 30 which was primarily produced for export). *lastly my point of not want to selling was specific for BAF coz of the "indian connection"*
> 
> what i said that instead of buying 16 f-7s today it would have been better to buyadditional su 30s
> BAF doesnt has immediate threats to go on going "stop gaps measures" besides it already had mig29 for that role



Indian connection is not an issue here.Even if we buy the aircraft it is highly unlikely we are gonna buy it from you....we will make the deal with China.They don't care about India.


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## Bamboo Castle

RiasatKhan said:


> @drunken-monke @Bamboo Castle can you guys please take the argument to a political thread.Please leave this sticky to Air Force discussion only.



Sure.. no problem...

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## Allah Akbar

samjhgae bacchu ,rikshaw and bmw ki compare nhi karne chaie just like your f-7p vs f7bgi 


ziaulislam said:


> yup a 4 million $ 1950 design AC with turbojet engine and limited fuel is superior to 4th gen Aircrafts..
> its just like saying a rukshaw is better than a BMW
> f-7s are down and out* old generation aircrafts*
> no matter what u do u simply cant put a better radar or avionics because of the engine
> a modern engine like rd 93 costs 3-4 million $ ,ge404 of LCA costs 10 million$
> BAF should either go for mig29s or sell their mig29 and buy su30 to keep the costs down of multiple plateforms
> they should also consider older refurbished f-16s


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## Luftwaffe

RiasatKhan said:


> Indian connection is not an issue here.Even if we buy the aircraft it is highly unlikely we are gonna buy it from you....we will make the deal with China.They don't care about India.



No and No, "indian connection" is playing vital role in FC-1 not being recommended by Government of BD minus BAF.

CAC and PAC has 50-50 share whoever you buy from profits would be divided so Pakistan bags Bangladesh's cash, secondly Pakistan might not be interested in loan based deal but only cash. Yes China does care in whose hands their Aircraft goes. PAF/China would not want SD-10 BVRAAM to land in the hands of india not would Pakistan/China want other critical technology/technical information goes into the hands of india so they can manipulate since JF-17 would form the backbone of PAF that would be flying against a number of india air force platforms.

BAF current procurement interprets that they would not be looking for any other platform Aircraft for the next say atleast 7 Years until economy becomes better, Mig-29 frankly in next decade should be avoided on all costs perhaps Flankers are the only way to go as the replacement of Mig-29s and FC-1 or Korean FA-50 as a replacement for F-7BG/BGIs but the capabilities are multifold incase of FC-1 than FA-50 and US components. Engine and other technologies might not be allowed to be sold to BAF.

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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> latest F-7BG1 is superior to your F-7PG and it has strategic issue because BD is going for 4.5 gen aircraft.
> BD has long-term modernization plan, initially 16 Su-30 MKB (Bangladesh version) will join in BAF by 2016-2017. so buying yak-130 is logical.



Hi, give us credible links/references [News piece, defence journals, BAF official word] that 2016/2017 is the year to procure 16 Flankers if not please remove the post wrong information should not make its way to such a reliable defense forum, thousands of people read.


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## Luftwaffe

Bamboo Castle said:


> In the trainer aircraft program JL-7, T-6 Texan 2, PC-9, EMB 314, Grob G 120, KT-1 Woongbi is considered to be evaluated.



Nope YAK-152 are the only potential candidate but maybe CJ-7 [under development makes it way to the list]


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## Anubis

Luftwaffe said:


> No and No, "indian connection" is playing vital role in FC-1 not being recommended by Government of BD minus BAF.
> 
> CAC and PAC has 50-50 share whoever you buy from profits would be divided so Pakistan bags Bangladesh's cash, secondly Pakistan might not be interested in loan based deal but only cash. Yes China does care in whose hands their Aircraft goes. PAF/China would not want SD-10 BVRAAM to land in the hands of india not would Pakistan/China want other critical technology/technical information goes into the hands of india so they can manipulate since JF-17 would form the backbone of PAF that would be flying against a number of india air force platforms.
> 
> BAF current procurement interprets that they would not be looking for any other platform Aircraft for the next say atleast 7 Years until economy becomes better, Mig-29 frankly in next decade should be avoided on all costs perhaps Flankers are the only way to go as the replacement of Mig-29s and FC-1 or Korean FA-50 as a replacement for F-8BG/BGIs but the capabilities are multifold incase of FC-1 than FA-50 and US components. Engine and other technologies might not be allowed to be sold to BAF.



The same should also go for mbt-2000....it also a joint project between you and China........China did sell it to us and also provided loans.Are you sure you are going to receive profit from that deal too?
The SD10 uses Russian radar(the thing you want to hide)...The same radar is also in missiles already used by India and Bangladesh!

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## Luftwaffe

RiasatKhan said:


> The same should also go for mbt-2000....it also a joint project between you and China........China did sell it to us and also provided loans.Are you sure you are going to receive profit from that deal too?
> The SD10 uses Russian radar(the thing you want to hide)...The same radar is also in missiles already used by India and Bangladesh!



No al-khalid tank is based upon pt3 mbt 2000 and later upgraded AK/AK1/AK2 all info is on this forum but mbt-2000 is not joint project nor does Pakistan get share of money from it's sale by China. So no Pakistan has nothing to do with mbt-2000 sales to to BD Army.

Nope SD-10 does not use russian radar not would china allow any country to integrae with russian/western radars not for now. If you are referring to the internal system of SD-10 well it is alot different SD-10 is post 2005 development where as R-27 is way older almost 30 years old but variants developed are still a decade older then SD-10 so technically SD-10 uses new technologies. 
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-strategic-forces/81157-sd-10-vs-aim-120-latest-versions.html

FC-1 not on offer until pro indian government is replaced/goes away, we should not be so sure about Argentinian FC-1 interest they don't have money and israelis would easily get access to it even if the avionics and other EW suite is severely downgraded the platform itself is of interest to them.

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## Anubis

Luftwaffe said:


> No al-khalid tank is based upon pt3 mbt 2000 and later upgraded AK/AK1/AK2 all info is on this forum but mbt-2000 is not joint project nor does Pakistan get share of money from it's sale by China. So no Pakistan has nothing to do with mbt-2000 sales to to BD Army.
> 
> Nope SD-10 does not use russian radar not would china allow any country to integrae with russian/western radars not for now. If you are referring to the internal system of SD-10 well it is alot different SD-10 is post 2005 development where as R-27 is way older almost 30 years old but variants developed are still a decade older then SD-10 so technically SD-10 uses new technologies.
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-strategic-forces/81157-sd-10-vs-aim-120-latest-versions.html
> 
> FC-1 not on offer until pro indian government is replaced/goes away, we should not be so sure about Argentinian FC-1 interest they don't have money and israelis would easily get access to it even if the avionics and other EW suite is severely downgraded the platform itself is of interest to them.


Pro Indian government will keep coming every 5 years!


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## Luftwaffe

RiasatKhan said:


> Pro Indian government will keep coming every 5 years!



I cannot predict. The next approach should be russia logically. BD AF should focus capabilities and get a good deal from russian they are keen to give loan based equipment so Flankers are logical choice by 2020 specifically SU-35, 32 is not a big number if BDAF is to keep them for the next 28 Years atleast. Mig-29s should be avoided.


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## Anubis

Luftwaffe said:


> I cannot predict. The next approach should be russia logically. BD AF should focus capabilities and get a good deal from russian they are keen to give loan based equipment so Flankers are logical choice by 2020 specifically SU-35, 32 is not a big number if BDAF is to keep them for the next 28 Years atleast. Mig-29s should be avoided.



But we need basic fighters.Something like f7 but more advanced.FC1s would be perfect for that role.Su30s cost $34million...but FC1s are half the price!Will China sell j10s or j11s?


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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> Based on what ?
> 
> Specifications wagheraa tou compare kar ke bataa !



1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
3) Full glass cockpit.
4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver
lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)
7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2,
PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
12) climb of rate: 190m/s
13) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.
14) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.

now check 



Bamboo Castle said:


> F-7BG1 is superior to F-7PG but still it is inferior to any 4th generation fighters, even JF-17 and LCA which are basically wanna be 4th gen.
> 
> 16 Su-30 does not justify the purchase of 24 YAK-130. The general practice is 3:1 or 4:1 or 5:1 and in extreme cases 6:1. meaning for each LIFT the quantity of Fighter would be either 3 or 4 or 5 or 6. That gives you minimum 72 to maximum 144 fighters against 24 LIFT aircraft.
> 
> There is still no confirmation about the type of fighter aircraft selected or to be selected. Su-30MK, Su-27SM, Mig-29SMT, Mig-29M/M2, F-16 block 50/52, JAS-39NG, F/A-18EF has been confirmed to have been evaluated. But none are confirmed yet.
> 
> In the trainer aircraft program JL-7, T-6 Texan 2, PC-9, EMB 314, Grob G 120, KT-1 Woongbi is considered to be evaluated.


1. i was comparing only 3rd gen fighter, bringing 4th gen JF-17 is foolishness.
2. do you think 24 yak-130 just for 16 su30 ? you will see 7 squadron 4th aircraft by 2026-2027.



Luftwaffe said:


> Hi, give us credible links/references [News piece, defence journals, BAF official word] that 2016/2017 is the year to procure 16 Flankers if not please remove the post wrong information should not make its way to such a reliable defense forum, thousands of people read.



Hello, our procurement process are not disclosed openly in public media so cut it, BD is not like India or Pakistan. My posts always come from reliable source.

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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> 1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
> 2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
> 3) Full glass cockpit.
> 4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
> 5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver
> lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
> 6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)
> 7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
> 8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2,
> PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
> 9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
> 10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
> 11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
> 12) climb of rate: 190m/s
> 13) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.
> 14) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
> 
> now check



Much of it sounds like BS !  

So please provide credible links to back that up !

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## Armstrong

Waisee @BDforever this is what the forum turned up in its Search Results when I was finding about the PG & the BGI ! 

Here is what I have for the specifications of the KLJ-6F:







Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-other-combat-air-crafts-2.html#ixzz2ZPALQacK

Where did you make it out to to be 86 kms ?  

Apneiii @Tempest II Bhai abhi tuk tou ghalat nahin hoiii !

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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> Much of it sounds like BS !
> 
> So please provide credible links to back that up !



ahahaha. someone's a$$ is burning  i collected it from internet 7 months ago and kept it file 

now you go and find it, i do not energy go for same news again.




Armstrong said:


> Waisee @BDforever this is what the forum turned up in its Search Results when I was finding about the PG & the BGI !
> 
> Here is what I have for the specifications of the KLJ-6F:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-other-combat-air-crafts-2.html#ixzz2ZPALQacK
> 
> Where did you make it out to to be 86 kms ?
> 
> Apneiii @Tempest II Bhai abhi tuk tou ghalat nahin hoiii !



i do not know from where he got it, i posted what i got. ask him for source.

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## BDforever

@Armstrong check this out..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/168817-bangladesh-air-force-14.html

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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> @Armstrong check this out..
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/168817-bangladesh-air-force-14.html



No Source is there for any of the claims...even the claims of a certain Major Sahib where he tried to post a poster of the said Radar & said that it has 86 km range when no where in the poster that is mentioned !

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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> No Source is there for any of the claims...even the claims of a certain Major Sahib where he tried to post a poster of the said Radar & said that it has 86 km range when no where in the poster that is mentioned !


 @Armstrong
bro check this out KLJ-6F Photo by My-Military-Photos | Photobucket this source says this radar medium and long range missile

i think it will you clear your doubt little bit

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## Dillinger

Armstrong said:


> Waisee @BDforever this is what the forum turned up in its Search Results when I was finding about the PG & the BGI !
> 
> Here is what I have for the specifications of the KLJ-6F:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-other-combat-air-crafts-2.html#ixzz2ZPALQacK
> 
> Where did you make it out to to be 86 kms ?
> 
> Apneiii @Tempest II Bhai abhi tuk tou ghalat nahin hoiii !



The KLJ-7 FCR built by CETC and NRIET has a detection range of 75km for a 3m2 RCS target. It is a pulse doppler radar but will have degredation issues, severe ones probably against systems like the ELT-568 AESA-based airborne distributed-architecture jammers. The Chinese will soon enough bring about an AESA FCR though for the FC-1/JFT. Highly doubt that the KLJ-6E/F can outperform the former. 

Links please for claims of purchasing flankers?

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## Tempest II

Armstrong said:


> Waisee @BDforever this is what the forum turned up in its Search Results when I was finding about the PG & the BGI !
> 
> Here is what I have for the specifications of the KLJ-6F:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-other-combat-air-crafts-2.html#ixzz2ZPALQacK
> 
> Where did you make it out to to be 86 kms ?
> 
> Apneiii @Tempest II Bhai abhi tuk tou ghalat nahin hoiii !



Would love to answer, but what is the question? ... ... Sorry, language barrier here!

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## BDforever

Tempest II said:


> Would love to answer, but what is the question? ... ... Sorry, language barrier here!



hi, what is your news source of KLJ-6F ?


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## Tempest II

BDforever said:


> hi, what is your news source of KLJ-6F ?



I had access to some technical data/information from here: Chinese Radars 

And I believe this maybe be the data I saw. Will need to double check later



> http://i46.tinypic.com/2d0ig75.jpg



Regards

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## Nexus

BDforever said:


> @Armstrong check this out..
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/168817-bangladesh-air-force-14.html


i found your clone name @bd_4_ever

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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> Waisee @BDforever this is what the forum turned up in its Search Results when I was finding about the PG & the BGI !
> 
> Here is what I have for the specifications of the KLJ-6F:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-other-combat-air-crafts-2.html#ixzz2ZPALQacK
> 
> Where did you make it out to to be 86 kms ?
> 
> Apneiii @Tempest II Bhai abhi tuk tou ghalat nahin hoiii !



his source also says it has greater than 56 km range , so it can be 86km 



Nexus said:


> i found your clone name @bd_4_ever



yea me too, after joint i have found him

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## Bamboo Castle

Armstrong said:


> Based on what ?
> 
> Specifications wagheraa tou compare kar ke bataa !



Specification check karke dekhna yaar.. tu bhi chauk jayega...

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## Tempest II

BDforever said:


> his source also says it has greater than 56 km range , so it can be 86km
> 
> 
> 
> yea me too, after joint i have found him



Will verify later, but >56km is in "look up" mode and "air-to-air". ... ... The 86km MIGHT be for ground target like ships.

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## Bamboo Castle

ziaulislam said:


> not related to topic but google it.
> after eygpt offical statement of interest in co production. Argentina has also given offical staement in interest of co production. already competing in serbia aircraft competition.
> any person will know that aircraft buying and negotiation takes 5-6 years. so far the reults are too good. i mean so many countries negotating!
> lastly, forr any fighter aircraft the goal is not to export but fullfil own requirements. JF-17 1st pirority was for PAF, rest is optional (unlike su 30 which was primarily produced for export). *lastly my point of not want to selling was specific for BAF coz of the "indian connection"*
> 
> what i said that instead of buying 16 f-7s today it would have been better to buyadditional su 30s
> BAF doesnt has immediate threats to go on going "stop gaps measures" besides it already had mig29 for that role



Well, people judge things with results. How well you got yourself educated is shown at you result card. But JF-17 result card is till now filled with a big 0.


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## british_bengali

Bamboo Castle said:


> Some Bengali's who live in UK having their either father or mother from India, does not like to accept India as a threat as if, they don't want to lose the opportunity of visiting their grandparents in India once a while in a year and have since that reason overlook all the killings, political violence, border killings, pact violations, treaty violations, border violations, import-export violations, destruction and all the mishaps done by India so far and all the mishaps yet to be done by India.



Okay so what do you propose bangladesh do?Go in Guns blazing and take out India just because they killed 2 or 3 Farmers?!?!

Issues such as these need to be solved diplomaticaly and with a cool head not by demonizing a country and BLAMING it for practically everything that went wrong. 

As far as political violence goes,thats our fault and our fault only since both of our so called "political" parties refuse to sort out differences with each other and negotiate and argue like toddlers. 

No country is a threat to bangladesh and neither is Bangladesh a threat to another country. But every country has to think logically about possible sceanarios and respect each others capabilities. BSF have shoot our civilians and BGB have shoot their civilians. We(India and Bangladesh) are both responsible for these civilian deaths.


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## ziaulislam

i think its wasteful to get engage in F-7 BG because at best it would be similar to F-7PG
BAF should get either older F-16s or su 30 only those two can get near range of 40-50million a piece
FC-1 is out of chance as Bangladesh wouldnt buy anything remotely attached to pakistan, i dont know know whether china will offer J-10 to them.
su 30 operating costs will be much higher , may be thats why they turned for few f-7s


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## BDforever

Tempest II said:


> Will verify later, but >56km is in "look up" mode and "air-to-air". ... ... The 86km MIGHT be for ground target like ships.



Bangladeshi news source says: it can bomb ground target upto 100km and air to air engagement upto 30 km 
well it makes sense because it is going to replace A-5c and F-7MB aircraft, so F-7BGI for ground attack purpose.





@Bamboo Castle

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## british_bengali

Bamboo Castle said:


> Well, people judge things with results. How well you got yourself educated is shown at you result card. But JF-17 result card is till now filled with a big 0.



There is nothing wrong with the JF-17s/FC-1 capability but the only problem with export is that it uses either russian engines or newly designed chinese engine. Problem with russian engine is that that same engine is used in the MIG-29 which means the FC-1 can divert sales away from Russia. Russia have probably asked china not to sell FC-1 with RD-93 to certain countries such as Bangladesh where russia may have a prospect of future sales. Nothing to do with india connection as such since China could make it like they did with MBT-2000.

The Chinese engine is the WS-13 and only began serial production in 2009 making it a very new and unproven engine.

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## Major Sam

Armstrong said:


> Waisee @BDforever this is what the forum turned up in its Search Results when I was finding about the PG & the BGI !
> 
> Here is what I have for the specifications of the KLJ-6F:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-other-combat-air-crafts-2.html#ixzz2ZPALQacK
> 
> Where did you make it out to to be 86 kms ?
> 
> Apneiii @Tempest II Bhai abhi tuk tou ghalat nahin hoiii !



these are also from inside reliable sources as they never disclose specs of F7-BGI aka asian F-35

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## british_bengali

ziaulislam said:


> i think its wasteful to get engage in F-7 BG because at best it would be similar to F-7PG
> BAF should get either older F-16s or su 30 only those two can get near range of 40-50million a piece
> FC-1 is out of chance as Bangladesh wouldnt buy anything remotely attached to pakistan, i dont know know whether china will offer J-10 to them.
> su 30 operating costs will be much higher , may be thats why they turned for few f-7s



I wish this should be stressed enough. F-7BGI were only bought as a STOP-GAP jet until we can allocate necassery funds and budgets to purchase 4th generation aircraft. Buying older f-16s would mean we would have to adapt to different avionics,weapons and training which requires more money! Those Sixteen f-7s cost only rough only $96 million dollars and how many 4th generation aircraft can we get with that much money??probably 2
FC-1 is out and and i believe the J-10 is either.


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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> his source also says it has greater than 56 km range , so it can be 86km



56+ generally means 57 or 58 or 59 or 60. At adverse scenario it might even be 65 but 86 is a long way, don't you think its a bit odd.

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## Major Sam

british_bengali said:


> I wish this should be stressed enough. F-7BGI were only bought as a STOP-GAP jet until we can allocate necassery funds and budgets to purchase 4th generation aircraft. Buying older f-16s would mean we would have to adapt to different avionics,weapons and training which requires more money! Those Sixteen f-7s cost only rough only $96 billion dollars and how many 4th generation aircraft can we get with that much money??probably 2
> FC-1 is out and and i believe the J-10 is either.



96Billion dollars you can buy 50 Squardon of F-35

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## BDforever

usama waqas said:


> 96Billion dollars you can buy 50 Squardon of F-35



he meant million  anyway those cost close to $10 million each


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## Bamboo Castle

Tempest II said:


> Will verify later, but >56km is in "look up" mode and "air-to-air". ... ... The 86km MIGHT be for ground target like ships.



Please, don't pump up someone who is already obsessed with distance.



usama waqas said:


> these are also from inside reliable sources as they never disclose specs of *F7-BGI aka asian F-35*



What do you call JF-17?


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## BDforever

Bamboo Castle said:


> Please, don't pump up someone who is already obsessed with distance.



our top critic, there are so many free critics now a days because to be critic, do not need knowledge now a days


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## Major Sam

Bamboo Castle said:


> Please, don't pump up someone who is already obsessed with distance.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call JF-17?



Aka join Fighter... or Thunders

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## BDforever

usama waqas said:


> Aka join Fighter... or Thunders



i call FC-1 , problem bro ?


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## Bamboo Castle

british_bengali said:


> I wish this should be stressed enough. F-7BGI were only bought as a STOP-GAP jet until we can allocate necassery funds and budgets to purchase 4th generation aircraft. Buying older f-16s would mean we would have to adapt to different avionics,weapons and training which requires more money! Those *Sixteen f-7s cost only rough only $96 billion dollars* and how many 4th generation aircraft can we get with that much money??probably 2
> FC-1 is out and and i believe the J-10 is either.



Those 16 F-7BG1 are the most expensive fighter aircraft in the world....


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## Major Sam

BDforever said:


> i call FC-1 , problem bro ?



as pakistani for me its thunder... i dont know who you are may be a chinese  so say what ever suits you

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## Major Sam

Bamboo Castle said:


> Those 16 F-7BG1 are the most expensive fighter aircraft in the world....



Only 96,000,000,000 USD Dollars JUST  



Bamboo Castle said:


> Someone named magor sahab called it Junk Fighter ...



weapons names doesnt matter what they can do this thing matters alot dear


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## BDforever

Bamboo Castle said:


> 56+ generally means 57 or 58 or 59 or 60. At adverse scenario it might even be 65 but 86 is a long way, don't you think its a bit odd.



not really 56+ can be 56.1 or 56.2 or 56.3 or it can be even like 56.1111111 .. 56.1111112 .. 56.111113 ...

get a life .


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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> he meant million  anyway those cost close to $10 million each



Correction my friend: $12.31 million

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## Major Sam

Bamboo Castle said:


> Correction my friend: $12.31 million



what about weapon package?


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## british_bengali

Bamboo Castle said:


> Those 16 F-7BG1 are the most expensive fighter aircraft in the world....



Whoops...sorry i meant 96 million dollars

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## Armstrong

Tempest II said:


> Would love to answer, but what is the question? ... ... Sorry, language barrier here!



Oops I thought you were a Pakistani !  

Apologies !  

My friend @BDforever thinks that the F7 BGI eclipses everything that the F-7PG offers & that the Radar (the aforementioned one) has a range of 86 km; I do believe that most of the specs hes provided along with the specs for the Radar sound too good to be true. Would you agree ?

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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> Hello, our procurement process are not disclosed openly in public media so cut it, BD is not like India or Pakistan. My posts always come from reliable source.



But you disclosed it openly did you not?

So F-7BGI are only purchased for the next 3-4 Years and then Flankers would be brought in procured in 2016-2017 replacing BGIs...Highly unlikely in case of BGIs. BAF paid and that will not go down the drain for the next 10-12 Years you bought Aircrafts not tri cycles. 

I still maintain Flankers for any other new platform would not come before the beginning of the decade, there is no immediate Threat more cash would be available and more platforms would be available including J-10B/su-35/just for purpose of info adding JFT Blk III if it ever materialize and the the government is not pro indian. Go through my posts I did say Flankers are the only logical choice as being available and more capable platform if BAF is to focus heavy capabilities.


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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> But you disclosed it openly did you not?
> 
> So F-7BGI are only purchased for the next 3-4 Years and then Flankers would be brought in procured in 2016-2017 replacing BGIs...Highly unlikely in case of BGIs. BAF paid and that will not go down the drain for the next 10-12 Years you bought Aircrafts not tri cycles.
> 
> I still maintain Flankers for any other new platform would not come before the beginning of the decade, there is no immediate Threat more cash would be available and more platforms would be available including J-10B/su-35/just for purpose of info adding JFT Blk III if it ever materialize and the the government is not pro indian. Go through my posts I did say Flankers are the only logical choice as being available and more capable platform if BAF is to focus heavy capabilities.



the procurement program is not disclosed fully in media, but most of us know whoever in touch with defence related issue. F-7BGI is to replace A-5 and F-7MB and it will be operational till 2025. F-7BGI is for mainly ground attack. talking about immediate threat is foolishness. A strong force does not build by days or by just 1-2 years, it takes long time. Bangladesh armed forces has made goal of 2030. why you do think Flanker makes more logic ? anyway 16 Su-30MKB will join by 2016-2017.


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## Mattrixx



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## cloud_digger

BDforever said:


> Hello, our procurement process are not disclosed openly in public media so cut it, BD is not like India or Pakistan. My posts always come from reliable source.



How many times will this same excuse be repeated in the BD section? Are you buying toffees? These are defence purchases, running into billions, at least the hundreds of millions. They are not under the table deals. You are buying them from a foreign company, you are buying them legitimately. Which means there is a paper trail of the purchase. At least there is an MOU signed before the transactions start taking place. There is only so much money you can hide away for top secret purchases. Especially if it is with foreign countries/companies. Even the top secret deals between China and Pakistan or India and Russia are not in the billions. They will be spotted easily. Such secret deals dont usually adhere to equipment like dozens of fighters or hundreds of tanks/artillery. Even 2 or 3 ships cannot be hidden away, they run into the hundreds of millions. Top secret is usually used for strategic equipment or tech, like missiles or missile tech, may be buy AAMs, may be hide the sale of some tech in the purchase of a nuc sub (may be something India did with Russia, not sure).
How many times will you guys use this excuse? Top secret!!!! How much money is BD stashing away for such secret deals? One guy says in the navy section the ships BD is getting from SK or China are top secret. Then some one says the "5 sqds of Su" are top secret. Really? You are going to hide 3 billion dollars? From the Russians? From the Koreans? 
If some one comes to me and says, bro, i want to buy from you but I dont want to show it on the books since its top secret, I will take his money and refuse to sell him or he will tkae the goods and refuse to pay me. Deals are signed specially for this single reason. So people dont skip on their promises, be it payment or delivery. Understand this.

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## BDforever

cloud_digger said:


> How many times will this same excuse be repeated in the BD section? Are you buying toffees? These are defence purchases, running into billions, at least the hundreds of millions. They are not under the table deals. You are buying them from a foreign company, you are buying them legitimately. Which means there is a paper trail of the purchase. At least there is an MOU signed before the transactions start taking place. There is only so much money you can hide away for top secret purchases. Especially if it is with foreign countries/companies. Even the top secret deals between China and Pakistan or India and Russia are not in the billions. They will be spotted easily. Such secret deals dont usually adhere to equipment like dozens of fighters or hundreds of tanks/artillery. Even 2 or 3 ships cannot be hidden away, they run into the hundreds of millions. Top secret is usually used for strategic equipment or tech, like missiles or missile tech, may be buy AAMs, may be hide the sale of some tech in the purchase of a nuc sub (may be something India did with Russia, not sure).
> How many times will you guys use this excuse? Top secret!!!! How much money is BD stashing away for such secret deals? One guy says in the navy section the ships BD is getting from SK or China are top secret. Then some one says the "5 sqds of Su" are top secret. Really? You are going to hide 3 billion dollars? From the Russians? From the Koreans?
> If some one comes to me and says, bro, i want to buy from you but I dont want to show it on the books since its top secret, I will take his money and refuse to sell him or he will tkae the goods and refuse to pay me. Deals are signed specially for this single reason. So people dont skip on their promises, be it payment or delivery. Understand this.



You do not know nothing about BD military, so stop bullshitting. News only come to media when those equipments arrive, before that hardly mentioned, even some stuff has kept undisclosed in media, we can only see them in defence related pages. recent example: Bangladesh and Belarus has made joint commission for joint defence project which did not come in bangladesh media, only few defence media and belarus authority. 

@cloud_digger
another eg. Like me some bangladeshi knows that bangladesh is buying equipments from Serbia. There was a international defence exhibition going on in serbia and a serbian member in pdf was posting pictures, so I asked him about it. He answered me that he asked to authority about it and they just told him it is secret, only said to him that they are selling equipment to a southasian country.

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## cloud_digger

BDforever said:


> You do not know nothing about BD military, so stop bullshitting. News only come to media when those equipments arrive, before that hardly mentioned, even some stuff has kept undisclosed in media, we can only see them in defence related pages. recent example: Bangladesh and Belarus has made joint commission for joint defence project which did not come in bangladesh media, only few defence media and belarus authority.
> 
> @cloud_digger
> another eg. Like me some bangladeshi knows that bangladesh is buying equipments from Serbia. There was a international defence exhibition going on in serbia and a serbian member in pdf was posting pictures, so I asked him about it. He answered me that he asked to authority about it and they just told him it is secret, only said to him that they are selling equipment to a southasian country.



Did I say anything about all the media knowing or reporting the deals? I said they are easily tracked. Some choose to report it, others dont. Just because BD media is not reporting it does not make it secret. And you yourself said it "Bangladesh and Belarus has made joint commission for joint defence project which did not come in bangladesh media, only few defence media and belarus authority." Some body is monitoring it and reporting it - *to the media*. And that example about the deal between BD and Belarus, they just signed the deal, the equipment has not arrived. So your argument is baseless. Stop spouting nonsense about the deals not becoming public untill the equipment arrives. Before it arrives, you have to sign a deal and once you sign it, it is public knowledge, they have to make it public, that is the whole point of signing a deal. The details of those may be hidden, but the fact that two parties signed a deal cannot be kept hidden. Governments, especially elected governments, have to account for they money they spend. So once again I say the same thing, there is only so much money that can be left unaccounted for secret deals, large deals, especially for 4th gen planes, war ships etc are not hidden. That is the way things work when you start deals between two countries. Read my post once again.

BTW I never said I know about BD military. I am speaking about the general way deals are signed between two countries. BD is not exempt to this natural rule. It is not the military that signs the deals, it is the govt that signs the deals on behalf of the military. Military only advises the govt on what they need, it is entirely upto elected govts to decide if they will buy it or not. And usually, military deals have to be approved by govts even if they are the ones selling them, not just by govts that want to buy said equipment. Even if BD govt does not mention the deal, the other party will usually present the deal to their governing bodies, all for the sake of accountability. And then it is no longer a secret.

Edit: Oh! and please let me know the thread about the said serbian posting pictures of the exhibition.

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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> A strong force does not build by days or by just 1-2 years, it takes long time. Bangladesh armed forces has made goal of 2030. why you do think Flanker makes more logic ? anyway 16 Su-30MKB will join by 2016-2017.



I hear ya my friend, that is why the beginning of the decade is what BAF is geared towards. 2016/2017 highly unlikely perhaps negotiations delivery would still be by 2020+ I maintain that. Flanker Aka su-27/30/33/34/35 series. 

Why I think Flankers are better for BAF is because it comes with better punch for the money in long run for merely 16-24 numbers, I don't want to go into technical details I am sure you know it and google and this forum has all the information. The other distinct advantage is in any conflict/war if russians stops the spares and weapons alternate is China that produces indigenous flankers and Chinese weapons/avionics can be integrated and spare sought for easily that would not be the case with F-16s F-18s, Gripens. Previously one of you guys were saying F-18s to be purchased it turned out dust not going to bet but logical conclusion is Flankers to be the next induction in the future of BAF not Fulcrums only fools would induct a dead horse considering the entire world are dumping them back to russia apart from india.


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## BDforever

cloud_digger said:


> Did I say anything about all the media knowing or reporting the deals? I said they are easily tracked. Some choose to report it, others dont. Just because BD media is not reporting it does not make it secret. And you yourself said it "Bangladesh and Belarus has made joint commission for joint defence project which did not come in bangladesh media, only few defence media and belarus authority." Some body is monitoring it and reporting it - *to the media*. And that example about the deal between BD and Belarus, they just signed the deal, the equipment has not arrived. So your argument is baseless. Stop spouting nonsense about the deals not becoming public untill the equipment arrives. Before it arrives, you have to sign a deal and once you sign it, it is public knowledge, they have to make it public, that is the whole point of signing a deal. The details of those may be hidden, but the fact that two parties signed a deal cannot be kept hidden. Governments, especially elected governments, have to account for they money they spend. So once again I say the same thing, there is only so much money that can be left unaccounted for secret deals, large deals, especially for 4th gen planes, war ships etc are not hidden. That is the way things work when you start deals between two countries. Read my post once again.
> 
> BTW I never said I know about BD military. I am speaking about the general way deals are signed between two countries. BD is not exempt to this natural rule. It is not the military that signs the deals, it is the govt that signs the deals on behalf of the military. Military only advises the govt on what they need, it is entirely upto elected govts to decide if they will buy it or not. And usually, military deals have to be approved by govts even if they are the ones selling them, not just by govts that want to buy said equipment. Even if BD govt does not mention the deal, the other party will usually present the deal to their governing bodies, all for the sake of accountability. And then it is no longer a secret.
> 
> Edit: Oh! and please let me know the thread about the said serbian posting pictures of the exhibition.



of course some one is watching but some sort of secrecy can be maintained when two govts agrees to do so, anyway you will not understand it because you are from the place where even IRSO or DRDO chief farts that becomes news headlines. There is a thread about that exhibition, check yourself.


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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> not really 56+ can be 56.1 or 56.2 or 56.3 or it can be even like 56.1111111 .. 56.1111112 .. 56.111113 ...
> 
> *get a life* .



Get yourself some grips.. don't sleep away into the dark...


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## Bamboo Castle

usama waqas said:


> what about weapon package?



PL-2, PL-5, PL-5E, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, PL-9C, LS-6, LS-2, C-704 etc

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## Major Sam

Bamboo Castle said:


> PL-2, PL-5, PL-5E, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, PL-9C, LS-6, LS-2, C-704 etc



why didnt go for C-802 antiship? C-702 has very small anti ship range of 35KM.


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## cloud_digger

BDforever said:


> of course some one is watching but some sort of secrecy can be maintained when two govts agrees to do so, anyway you will not understand it because you are from the place where even IRSO or DRDO chief farts that becomes news headlines. There is a thread about that exhibition, check yourself.



Now you are going around in circles, saying the same thing over and over. And whats more, your statements are becoming more vague and ambiguous. "Some sort of secrecy." What sort of secrecy can be maintained about a deal? The details of the deal? Or the fact that a deal has been signed? If it is the former I agree, I have said so myself, but once signed, a deal is public. I am not talking about the pre-deal interest. That is always a secret, or atleast people try to keep it low key affair untill both parties are sure that they will go ahead with the purchase soon or they will be signing a deal soon. 

This is the way defence deals work:
First, a potential customer shows interest in some equipment. Then they approach the country of origin for the said equipment. Both sides then work out some basic agreements without making a big fuss about it, like inspecting the weapons, getting briefed by the manufacturers, or even being invited to some live fire testing of sorts. All this is usually kept under the wraps. *This is not a deal*. This is just showing some interest. It does not mean they will sell/buy. 

A lot more happens after that. The potential customer military then does some analysis based on what they say and were presented. Just because a gun fires a bullet, you dont go and buy it for your entire army. You do a feasibility analysis among others. You want to make sure you can afford it, that transitioning to the new weapon will not be difficult, it will work in the environment, spares will be available etc. This happens only after the manufacturer reveals to you some information about the weapon. This kind of knowledge is not available everywhere, only with users and manufacturers. Once the analysis is done, the results and suggestions are put to the govt, who will then decide wether to buy or not. Usually, by this point, one of two things can happen. The media catches wind of it, media have their sources (especially if its some big deal). Or the deal is not significant enough to warrant a report. Once the govt decides to purchase it, they will take it up with the country of origin and sign some MOU or may be even the deal itself. Either of those will make the whole process public. 

A deal does not necessarily become public only when the weapons reach BD. If it is a small deal of no strategic consequence (like purchase of a few thousand rifles for SF or ballistic resistant vests for army) sure, people might not even be aware of such deals even after the equipment has arrived. But big ticket items, like ships, fighters, hundreds of tanks/artillery, these cannot be hidden. Some times the interested party and it interest in the weapon is leaked to the media long before any deal is signed. 

And ISRO and DRDO? really? they are domestic organizations. I am talking about deals between two countries and you bring up internal R&D organizations. Is your comprehension that weak? May be I am wasting my time explaining to you. I will take my leave from this thread (atleat on this topic).


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## Bamboo Castle

usama waqas said:


> why didnt go for C-802 antiship? C-702 has very small anti ship range of 35KM.



Because of the aircraft KLJ-6F radar configuration and the aircraft light weight.



Luftwaffe said:


> But you disclosed it openly did you not?
> 
> So *F-7BGI are only purchased for the next 3-4 Years and then Flankers would be brought in procured in 2016-2017 replacing BGIs...*Highly unlikely in case of BGIs. BAF paid and that will not go down the drain for the next 10-12 Years you bought Aircrafts not tri cycles.
> 
> I still maintain Flankers for any other new platform would not come before the beginning of the decade, there is no immediate Threat more cash would be available and more platforms would be available including J-10B/su-35/just for purpose of info adding JFT Blk III if it ever materialize and the the government is not pro indian. Go through my posts I did say Flankers are the only logical choice as being available and more capable platform if BAF is to focus heavy capabilities.



What kind of dope did he take before making this kind of statement. We need some. Please give us some..

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## PlanetSoldier

usama waqas said:


> why didnt go for C-802 antiship? C-702 has very small anti ship range of 35KM.



Are you crazy....did Pakistan fit any C-80X on any of their fighters? I know that only india fitted Brahmos on their Flankers.


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## Major Sam

PlanetSoldier said:


> Are you crazy....did Pakistan fit any C-80X on any of their fighters? I know that only india fitted Brahmos on their Flankers.



Are you idiot? do you know what is C-802 and what is brahmos? or just behaving like a retard person. 

C-802 is a Antiship missile. we have C-802A. C-803 and C-603. if you dont know any thing then better STFU



Bamboo Castle said:


> Because of the aircraft KLJ-6F radar configuration and the aircraft light weight.
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of dope did he take before making this kind of statement. We need some. Please give us some..


 

i think its because of the radar range as Jf-17 is also in class of light weight fighter.


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## PlanetSoldier

usama waqas said:


> Are you idiot? do you know what is C-802 and what is brahmos? or just behaving like a retard person.
> 
> C-802 is a Antiship missile. we have C-802A. C-803 and C-603. if you dont know any thing then better STFU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think its because of the radar range as Jf-17 is also in class of light weight fighter.



I asked did u fit C-80X on any of your fighters.....what's idiotic here stupid...1st learn how to talk.

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## Major Sam

PlanetSoldier said:


> I asked did u fit C-80X on any of your fighters.....what's idiotic here stupid...1st learn how to talk.



i told you its operational with us. didnt you get what said? 

with JF-17 and with Pakistan Navy.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

PlanetSoldier said:


> Are you crazy....did Pakistan fit any C-80X on any of their fighters? I know that only india fitted Brahmos on their Flankers.



Yes JF-17 uses several missiles like CM-400AKG,C-803,C-802A,MAR-1,MAR-1B(signed deal with brazil),H-2,H-4 SOMs,RAAD ALCM,SD-10A,C-603,HAFR-1(anti runway)several other PGMs etc etc etc

And no indian jet as of right now is fitted with brahmos... only future plans to fit a few su-30s with it... after its air launched version is produced... so they are still years aways...

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## BDforever

cloud_digger said:


> Now you are going around in circles, saying the same thing over and over. And whats more, your statements are becoming more vague and ambiguous. "Some sort of secrecy." What sort of secrecy can be maintained about a deal? The details of the deal? Or the fact that a deal has been signed? If it is the former I agree, I have said so myself, but once signed, a deal is public. I am not talking about the pre-deal interest. That is always a secret, or atleast people try to keep it low key affair untill both parties are sure that they will go ahead with the purchase soon or they will be signing a deal soon.
> 
> This is the way defence deals work:
> First, a potential customer shows interest in some equipment. Then they approach the country of origin for the said equipment. Both sides then work out some basic agreements without making a big fuss about it, like inspecting the weapons, getting briefed by the manufacturers, or even being invited to some live fire testing of sorts. All this is usually kept under the wraps. *This is not a deal*. This is just showing some interest. It does not mean they will sell/buy.
> 
> A lot more happens after that. The potential customer military then does some analysis based on what they say and were presented. Just because a gun fires a bullet, you dont go and buy it for your entire army. You do a feasibility analysis among others. You want to make sure you can afford it, that transitioning to the new weapon will not be difficult, it will work in the environment, spares will be available etc. This happens only after the manufacturer reveals to you some information about the weapon. This kind of knowledge is not available everywhere, only with users and manufacturers. Once the analysis is done, the results and suggestions are put to the govt, who will then decide wether to buy or not. Usually, by this point, one of two things can happen. The media catches wind of it, media have their sources (especially if its some big deal). Or the deal is not significant enough to warrant a report. Once the govt decides to purchase it, they will take it up with the country of origin and sign some MOU or may be even the deal itself. Either of those will make the whole process public.
> 
> A deal does not necessarily become public only when the weapons reach BD. If it is a small deal of no strategic consequence (like purchase of a few thousand rifles for SF or ballistic resistant vests for army) sure, people might not even be aware of such deals even after the equipment has arrived. But big ticket items, like ships, fighters, hundreds of tanks/artillery, these cannot be hidden. Some times the interested party and it interest in the weapon is leaked to the media long before any deal is signed.
> 
> And ISRO and DRDO? really? they are domestic organizations. I am talking about deals between two countries and you bring up internal R&D organizations. Is your comprehension that weak? May be I am wasting my time explaining to you. I will take my leave from this thread (atleat on this topic).



I do not have time to read an Essay, write in short .


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## cloud_digger

BDforever said:


> I do not have time to read an Essay, write in short .


 
You are right, all you have time is to say "I heard blah blah top secret blah blah procurement not public blah blah".


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## BDforever

cloud_digger said:


> You are right, all you have time is to say "I heard blah blah top secret blah blah procurement not public blah blah".



the blah blah is coming from you, anyway you may get ban for talking off topic, so stop it now


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## british_bengali

cloud_digger said:


> You are right, all you have time is to say "I heard blah blah top secret blah blah procurement not public blah blah".



Try understand the general Public of Bangladesh first. New procurements are side news in newspapers, they don't make big headlines. Why?Thats because majority of Bangladesh don't give a damn about military equipment.I could go to Bazaar and ask if anyone knows what weapons do our Migs use.Probably all of them,with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 people,won't even know what a Mig is!!. At the same time i could walk into a middle school in the UK and 12 years olds would know what a harrier is. Why would news agencies spend money and waste resources for procurement news when the general public don't care. 

Bdforever has a point,you could not find a BD news article on us buying a south korean corvette but AMI international do just because the BD armed forces don't bother yelling out procurement news unless asked or told to.

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## BDforever

british_bengali said:


> Try understand the general Public of Bangladesh first. New procurements are side news in newspapers, they don't make big headlines. Why?Thats because majority of Bangladesh don't give a damn about military equipment.I could go to Bazaar and ask if anyone knows what weapons do our Migs use.Probably all of them,with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 people,won't even know what a Mig is!!. At the same time i could walk into a middle school in the UK and 12 years olds would know what a harrier is. Why would news agencies spend money and waste resources for procurement news when the general public don't care.
> 
> Bdforever has a point,you could not find a BD news article on us buying a south korean corvette but AMI international do just because the BD armed forces don't bother yelling out procurement news unless asked or told to.



even when news come, many people start yelling that we do not tanks, weapons bla bla etc without proper knowledge of this issue, so govt. tries its best to keep things secret as much as possible.

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## Dazzler

no offense meant but some of you guys are quite funny since you start from the best of the best yet end up with something similar to what PAK is operating...

* Oplot was favourite but settled for MBT 2000 aka Al-Khalid (pak army version)

* We went for F-7 PG you went for BG, then BGI (BAF specified verison with whole THREE displays, payload, range, radar, ew,comm gear are all the same as BG/ F-7G China version)

*F-22 BG frigate aka F-22P for Pak Navy

Judging from the above, some might talk about Rafale/ EF-2000 or Gripen or Mig-35 or J-10 for BAF but eventually they will settle for FC-1.

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## british_bengali

Dazzler said:


> no offense meant but some of you guys are quite funny since you start from the best of the best yet end up with something similar to what PAK is operating...
> 
> * Oplot was favourite but settled for MBT 2000 aka Al-Khalid (pak army version)
> 
> * We went for F-7 PG you went for BG, then BGI (BAF specified verison with whole THREE displays, payload, range, radar, ew,comm gear are all the same as BG/ F-7G China version)
> 
> *F-22 BG frigate aka F-22P for Pak Navy
> 
> Judging from the above, some might talk about Rafale/ EF-2000 or Gripen or Mig-35 or J-10 for BAF but eventually they will settle for FC-1.



Understandable. However MBT-2000 was bought due to the fact that the Yatagan(Not oplot)has certain problems operating in our environment.F-7BG was bought before we annouced that we were getting 4.5 generation figthers in 2011(the air marshal stated the order will Materlise in 5-10 years so we will get official confirmation during 2016-2021),F-7BGI was bought as a stop-gap since we needed more funds to buy the proper Jets. Yak 130s were ordered so it indicates a russian bird will be bought in the future.You can cross out rafale,ef-2000,gripen and Mig-35 since we can't buy them until sometime after 2030. Unless the Yak-130 can train pilots for the FC-1.

The F-22B is still a rumour or possible on the drawing boards.


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## Dazzler

so essentially both BG and BGI are stop gap measures, strange.


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## Luftwaffe

Bamboo Castle said:


> What kind of dope did he take before making this kind of statement. We need some. Please give us some..



Ask it from my friend BDforever sheikh hasina dope shop. But he is a good chap. 

It would be a disastrous decision to fall for Mig-29 once again, but I think BAF would pick Flankers by next decade since there is no immediate Threat nor can a squadron of Flankers do a zilch about IAF, 2020+ is when BAF could go for a new platform, If someone doesn't believe me that is fine with me we can always disagree.



Dazzler said:


> so essentially both BG and BGI are stop gap measures, strange.



Very strange considering the coffers are almost empty.

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## eastwatch

Dazzler said:


> so essentially both BG and *BGI are stop gap measures*, strange.



BGI is a stopgap measure in the sense that BAF wants to decommission its fleet of older A-5 and F-7MB. BGI itself however is a much improved version comparing to BG. I of the BGI stands for *i*mproved.

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## PlanetSoldier

eastwatch said:


> BGI is a stopgap measure in the sense that BAF wants to decommission its fleet of older A-5 and F-7MB. BGI itself however is a much improved version comparing to BG. I of the BGI stands for *i*mproved.



I don't understand why they want to retire F-7MB, it's not old yet. If they wish to upgrade the fleet with new generation, that's different. I don't think BD will be able to upgrade its whole fleet to a new gen. At least these can be transferred to army and navy as all these still have lifetime.

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## british_bengali

Dazzler said:


> so essentially both BG and BGI are stop gap measures, strange.



The BG series was bought even before BAF considered to buy new generation jets(bought in 2006 way before any rumour of us buying FC-1 or J-10).They are not stop-gap measures however the BGI are 

"I don't understand why they want to retire F-7MB, it's not old yet. If they wish to upgrade the fleet with new generation, that's different. I don't think BD will be able to upgrade its whole fleet to a new gen. At least these can be transferred to army and navy as all these still have lifetime." 

We don't have any need for a naval fleet as of now. Martime helicopters can cover more ground and won't be as expensive.


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## eastwatch

british_bengali said:


> We don't have any need for a naval fleet as of now. Mairtime helicopters can cover more ground and won't be as expensive.



I wonder if you are an expert of defense. How did you deduce your conclusion that BN needs no naval fleet. Contrary to what you proposed BN is acquiring all types of essential boats and is building some more inside the country so that it becomes quite a defensive fleet capable to bite the enemy.

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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> Ask it from my friend BDforever *sheikh hasina dope shop*. But he is a good chap.
> 
> It would be a disastrous decision to fall for Mig-29 once again, but I think BAF would pick Flankers by next decade since there is no immediate Threat nor can a squadron of Flankers do a zilch about IAF, 2020+ is when BAF could go for a new platform, If someone doesn't believe me that is fine with me we can always disagree.



about bold part: clear it more.
Rest: check my previous posts, i said many times that BD will have 16 su30MKB by 2017, is not it su30 flanker ? Do you know how much BD is spending in defence modernization program ? BD has plan to have 16 su30, 40 Mig35 and 8 existing Mig29 to SMT standard by 2025.


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## british_bengali

eastwatch said:


> I wonder if you are an expert of defense. How did you deduce your conclusion that BN needs no naval fleet. Contrary to what you proposed BN is acquiring all types of essential boats and is building some more inside the country so that it becomes quite a defensive fleet capable to bite the enemy.



Sorry again,my bad wording. I meant as in a naval air force like Naval figthers and aircraft carriers not as in ships. 

Using retired and outdated F-7MB will be expenisve and not helpful for any sceanario. Also a naval air force requires mutiple landing and take off platform ships away from land air bases which out current need(Since we are only expanding our Maritame force).


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## Bamboo Castle

Luftwaffe said:


> Ask it from my friend BDforever sheikh hasina dope shop. But he is a good chap.
> 
> It would be a disastrous decision to fall for Mig-29 once again, but I think BAF would pick Flankers by next decade since there is no immediate Threat nor can a squadron of Flankers do a zilch about IAF, 2020+ is when BAF could go for a new platform, If someone doesn't believe me that is fine with me we can always disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> Very strange considering the coffers are almost empty.




I don't want to flow with the rumor, coz, there is another rumor that BAF may go for 80 Su-30MK eventually. This procurement is going to happen in 3 phases. 24 AC on phase 1, 32 on phase 2 and 24 more on phase 3 on a 15 year development pattern. 

But I think this is just a rumor nothing serious. The more logical pattern may be and also the AF might go for: 32 Su-30MK (2 squadrons) + 16 Mig-29SMT (1 Squadron) + 32 F-7BG/BGI (2 Squadrons)..

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## eastwatch

british_bengali said:


> Sorry again,my bad wording. I meant as in a naval air force like Naval figthers and aircraft carriers not as in ships.
> 
> Using retired and outdated F-7MB will be expenisve and not helpful for any sceanario. Also *a naval air force requires multiple landing and take off platform ships away from land air bases *which out current need(Since we are only expanding our Maritame force).



Bold part; BN may not think the way you think. BN has to protect only a few thousand sq. km of sea, and our long shore line (S-E and E-W) has made it easy for the BAF to protect the sea. 

England needs AC Carriers or remote island air bases to protect its worldwide interest. BN may not need them. However, a few aircrafts operated by the BN will certainly help the defense.

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## Bamboo Castle

british_bengali said:


> Try understand the general Public of Bangladesh first. New procurements are side news in newspapers, they don't make big headlines. Why?*Thats because majority of Bangladesh don't give a damn about military equipment.I could go to Bazaar and ask if anyone knows what weapons do our Migs use.Probably all of them,with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 people,won't even know what a Mig is!!*. At the same time i could walk into a middle school in the UK and 12 years olds would know what a harrier is. Why would news agencies spend money and waste resources for procurement news when the general public don't care.



And if you ask those Bangladeshi guy how much money should we spend in Military he would probably say, why do we even need a military force, why are we wasting our money in military?



british_bengali said:


> Bdforever has a point,you could not find a BD news article on us buying a south korean corvette but AMI international do just because the BD armed forces don't bother yelling out procurement news unless asked or told to.



However, please do not fall for rumors.. You will find rumors are spreading about this and that but if you physically check them you will not find them there. Most of the rumors are brain-fart of some fan-boy. The part that you will find true did also spread as rumors but it was in fact an evaluation version that may also be a part of a bigger procurement deal.


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## british_bengali

eastwatch said:


> Bold part; BN may not think the way you think. BN has to protect only a few thousand sq. km of sea, and our long shore line (S-E and E-W) has made it easy for the BAF to protect the sea.
> 
> England needs AC Carriers or remote island air bases to protect its worldwide interest. BN may not need them. However, a few aircrafts operated by the BN will certainly help the defense.



Yes,then why allocate Obsolete Interceptors to act as maritame patrol craft?Not only will it waste resources looking after them,we could use those extra resources for newer figthers or a lot more Maritame craft like more RUAGs or actual attack helicopters or CAS aircraft for the Army or possibly the money can be spent on R&D projects. I fully understand what you are talking about that BD and the UK are different but there is no point in having two or three air services of each faction of the military patrolling the bay of bengal since the BAF is fine and capable to do so,However using the F-7s for the navy or army is a bad move and considereing BD's efforts to modernise the armed forces,it will be a step backwards. BAF can easily handle the bay of bengal skies and cooperate with the BN, which will increase cooperation between the two. 

Also i am not against the army or Navy from having aircraft but i would prefer them not to be F-7s which we are trying to get rid of, the money could be put to better use and i pray after the f-7bgis' no other f-7 will ever be bought.


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## eastwatch

british_bengali said:


> Also i am not against the army or Navy from having aircraft but *i would prefer them not to be F-7s which we are trying to get rid of*, the money could be put to better use and i pray after the f-7bgis' no other f-7 will ever be bought.



I do not think, BAF has already decided to discard its F-7MBs.


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## british_bengali

eastwatch said:


> I do not think, BAF has already decided to discard its F-7MBs.



I know that,its how the debate started with someone suggesting that the F-7 should be turned over to the navy

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## Luftwaffe

british_bengali said:


> I know that,its how the debate started with someone suggesting that the F-7 should be turned over to the navy



I would like to see F-7BGI upgraded with IFR and handed over to Navy [operated by dedicated BAF pilots] later when ever Flankers [most likely but it could end into Fulcrum] arrive.


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## Bamboo Castle

Luftwaffe said:


> I would like to see F-7BGI upgraded with IFR and handed over to Navy [operated by dedicated BAF pilots] later when ever Flankers [most likely but it could end into Fulcrum] arrive.



BN does not have the infrastructure, resources and will to operate a fighter wing. So, whatever you are talking about F-7 for BN should stop right here.


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## Luftwaffe

Bamboo Castle said:


> BN does not have the infrastructure, resources and will to operate a fighter wing. So, whatever you are talking about F-7 for BN should stop right here.



It doesn't take much money Aircrafts and Pilots are already available. Or you are going to waste it less then a decade? only an efficient Air Force can survive and an efficient innovative Air Force can make good use of their available resources. If you are making noise about no resources and infrastructure then why is BAF even looking into YAK 130/131 and why is BAF prep to get any new platform in the next few years.


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## Zabaniyah

PlanetSoldier said:


> I don't understand why they want to retire F-7MB, it's not old yet. If they wish to upgrade the fleet with new generation, that's different. I don't think BD will be able to upgrade its whole fleet to a new gen. At least these can be transferred to army and navy as all these still have lifetime.



Those MB's along with A-5's were bought back in the eighties.

So yes they are pretty old.


@british_bengali 

F-7's are no longer in production. Those BGI's were the last ever to roll off Chengdu's production lines.

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## PlanetSoldier

Loki said:


> Those MB's along with A-5's were bought back in the eighties.
> 
> So yes they are pretty old.
> 
> 
> @british_bengali
> 
> F-7's are no longer in production. Those BGI's were the last ever to roll off Chengdu's production lines.



I'm not sure but if you investigate you may find that F-7 MBs were bought in 90s and they still have lifetime.

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## Bamboo Castle

eastwatch said:


> I do not think, BAF has already decided to discard its F-7MBs.



F-7MB has already been grounded. They have been replaced by F-7BG1


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## chisty_chowdhury

Bamboo Castle said:


> F-7MB has already been grounded. They have been replaced by F-7BG1



F-7MB will join the 25th Sq. along with L-39ZA.

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## mil-avia

mil-avia said:


> *Cool photos of BAF shot by Faisal Akram Ether.*


 *&#2438;&#2455;&#2497;&#2472; &#2474;&#2494;&#2454;&#2495;&#2480; &#2465;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494;*


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## Bamboo Castle

chisty_chowdhury said:


> F-7MB will join the 25th Sq. along with L-39ZA.



F-7MB is completely grounded. F-7BG1 has replaced the F-7MB.


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## Bamboo Castle

*Bangladesh Air Force now 2013:*
1 x squadron of Mig-29 (8 aircraft) - Air Superiority
1 x squadron of F-7BG1 (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
1 x squadron of F-7BG (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
1 x squadron of A-5C/FT-6 (14 Aircraft) - Attack
1 x squadron of L-39ZA (7 aircraft) - Advanced Jet Trainer
1 x squadron of T-37B (12 aircraft) - Intermediary Jet Trainer/Multiple engine aircraft trainer



*Bangladesh Air Force 2021:*
2 x squadron of Su-30MK (24-32 aircraft) - Multi-role
1 x squadron of Mig-29SMT (16 aircraft) - Multi-role
1 x squadron of F-7BG1 (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
1 x squadron of F-7BG (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
2 x squadron of YAK-130 (24 aircraft) - Lead-In-Fighter-Trainer (LIFT)
1 x squadron of T-37B (12 aircraft) - Jet Trainer/Multiple engine aircraft trainer

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## Bamboo Castle

Loki said:


> Those MB's along with A-5's were bought back in the eighties.
> 
> So yes they are pretty old.
> 
> 
> @british_bengali
> 
> *F-7's are no longer in production. Those BGI's were the last ever to roll off Chengdu's production lines.*



I can't agree more. I think Chengdu opened the closed factory just one last time to make those 16 F-7BG1.

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## Bamboo Castle

Mig-29 of Bangladesh Air Force with new paint job: 

*506*






*507*





*100*





*375*

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## Bamboo Castle

Mig-29:






F-7BG1:






F-7BG:






F-7MB:






A-5C:






FT-6:






L-39ZA:

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## british_bengali

Bamboo Castle said:


> I can't agree more. I think Chengdu opened the closed factory just one last time to make those 16 F-7BG1.



Yep,It originally stopped Production in 2008.
I wonder what on earth we said to get them to reopen it again??


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## sidr

Any news about su-27 purchase?


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## Luftwaffe

sidr said:


> Any news about su-27 purchase?



Bhai read the Thread from the start, No I Think BAF would be more inclined towards su-30 Flanker variant.

@Bamboo Castle i dislike the color scheme of Fulcrums I think something like this is more fine looking.

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## animelive

Bamboo Castle said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force now 2013:*
> 1 x squadron of Mig-29 (8 aircraft) - Air Superiority
> 1 x squadron of F-7BG1 (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
> 1 x squadron of F-7BG (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
> 1 x squadron of A-5C/FT-6 (14 Aircraft) - Attack
> 1 x squadron of L-39ZA (7 aircraft) - Advanced Jet Trainer
> 1 x squadron of T-37B (12 aircraft) - Intermediary Jet Trainer/Multiple engine aircraft trainer
> 
> 
> 
> *Bangladesh Air Force 2021:*
> 2 x squadron of Su-30MK (24-32 aircraft) - Multi-role
> 1 x squadron of Mig-29SMT (16 aircraft) - Multi-role
> 1 x squadron of F-7BG1 (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
> 1 x squadron of F-7BG (16 aircraft) - Multi-Role
> 2 x squadron of YAK-130 (24 aircraft) - Lead-In-Fighter-Trainer (LIFT)
> 1 x squadron of T-37B (12 aircraft) - Jet Trainer/Multiple engine aircraft trainer



if i'm not wrong, this ain't a wishlist thread.


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## Bamboo Castle

animelive said:


> if i'm not wrong, this ain't a wishlist thread.



No, this is not. This is what BAF is planing by 2021. This is not much but far better than what we have now.


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## british_bengali

Bamboo Castle said:


> No, this is not. This is what BAF is planing by 2021. This is not much but far better than what we have now.



Animelive has a point,not all on that list you posted may be true but some items there can be considered to be likely. The yak 130 is a confirmed deal and will likely be signed at MAKS 2013 in a few months, the Number itself is still under negotiations since 24 will take up a majority of the $1 billion loan unless russians lower the price for us. 
T-37b will likely be placed in reserve due to age and will likely be replaced by Yak-152. F-7bg will be replaced by more modern aircraft at the time. BGI will remain at that time. However,the additional 8 Mig SMTs is debatable due to the fact we rejected them due to the £500 million dollar price tag given by russians. 
Su-30 is a logical Choice due to the fact that the jf-17,j-10 and the western aircraft choices(F-16,jas gripen) have been ruled out. su-30 is a good choice(Su-30MK2 variant allows for maritime strike which will help us secure our maritime boundary) alongside other russian aircraft such as su-27 and Migs but no variant has been confirmed. Also you have stated in other thread($1bl defence deal with russia includes)that we are to receive 40 Mig 29Ms in 2019.(unlikely due to budget constraints) 
Also the order for 32 such aircraft will likely be seen,earliest,2014, or the latest in 2019.

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## Bamboo Castle

british_bengali said:


> Animelive has a point,not all on that list you posted may be true but some items there can be considered to be likely. The yak 130 is a confirmed deal and will likely be signed at MAKS 2013 in a few months, the Number itself is still under negotiations *since 24 will take up a majority of the $1 billion loan unless russians lower the price for us.*



The $1 billion does not include the YAK-130. The YAK-130 deal is a separate defense deal Bangladesh is still negotiating for a better and friendly price. The number is still 24. There is an unconfirmed report that suggests the number can be 32 as well.

The $1 billion deal is about Mi-171 helicopters, Self propelled air defense systems, Self propelled air defense artillery systems, Self propelled Artillery Systems, conventional artillery systems, battlefield command vehicles, Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFV BTR-80A), Weapons locating radars systems, protection systems against projectiles, Rocket propelled weapons systems, Guided weapons systems, Mortar systems, Automatic grenade launchers, MANPADs, Machines guns, cannons, and infantry weapons of various types. 




british_bengali said:


> *T-37b will likely be placed in reserve due to age and will likely be replaced by Yak-152.*



The deal for the YAK-152 is off in favor of something else (I don't know what). Besides we have 12 fully operational T-37B and 14 more in stores (can also be used for Parts) makes it very unlikely for Bangladesh air force to withdraw them from services. T-37 also has multiple uses in BAF: Primary Jet Trainer and Intermediary Jet Trainer. T-37 is also used as the primary trainers for the transport aircraft. pilots gets valuable lessons of flying in side-by-side configurations operating multiple engines. This multi events make it very unlikely to be withdrawn from active duty before 2030.




british_bengali said:


> *F-7bg will be replaced by more modern aircraft at the time.* BGI will remain at that time.



The F-7BG was introduced in 2001. It is very unlikely that they will be withdrawn before 2030 (you may look at PAF F-7 or IAF Mig-21 bison for understanding. They have done various upgrades to keep them air worthy and shall remain in service beyond 2020).



british_bengali said:


> However,*the additional 8 Mig SMTs is debatable due to the fact we rejected them due to the £500 million dollar price tag* given by russians.



There are still news of negotiations coming in.



british_bengali said:


> Su-30 is a logical Choice due to the fact that the *jf-17*,j-10 and the western aircraft choices(F-16,jas gripen) have been ruled out. su-30 is a good choice(Su-30MK2 variant allows for maritime strike which will help us secure our maritime boundary) alongside other russian aircraft such as su-27 and Migs but no variant has been confirmed.



BAF never considered the JF-17 because of its less capabilities. 

Su-30MK has been primarily selected for the fighter aircraft procurement program. The contract may be signed in 2019 with delivery from 2021



british_bengali said:


> Also you have stated in other thread($1bl defence deal with russia includes)that *we are to receive 40 Mig 29Ms in 2019*.(unlikely due to budget constraints)



That contract has been divided in two parts (according to rumors within the force). 24-32 Su-30MK and 8 Mig-29SMT.



british_bengali said:


> Also the order for 32 such aircraft will likely be seen,earliest,2014, or the latest in 2019.



The contract will be signed in 2019 with delivery from 2021.

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## Bamboo Castle

F-7BG:














F-7BG cockpit:








F-7BG in foreign runway:

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## Bamboo Castle



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## Bamboo Castle

Retired BAF Helicopter:

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## Black Eagle 90

Bamboo Castle said:


> The $1 billion does not include the YAK-130. The YAK-130 deal is a separate defense deal Bangladesh is still negotiating for a better and friendly price. The number is still 24. There is an unconfirmed report that suggests the number can be 32 as well.
> 
> The $1 billion deal is about Mi-171 helicopters, Self propelled air defense systems, Self propelled air defense artillery systems, Self propelled Artillery Systems, conventional artillery systems, battlefield command vehicles, Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFV BTR-80A), Weapons locating radars systems, protection systems against projectiles, Rocket propelled weapons systems, Guided weapons systems, Mortar systems, Automatic grenade launchers, MANPADs, Machines guns, cannons, and infantry weapons of various types.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The deal for the YAK-152 is off in favor of something else (I don't know what). Besides we have 12 fully operational T-37B and 14 more in stores (can also be used for Parts) makes it very unlikely for Bangladesh air force to withdraw them from services. T-37 also has multiple uses in BAF: Primary Jet Trainer and Intermediary Jet Trainer. T-37 is also used as the primary trainers for the transport aircraft. pilots gets valuable lessons of flying in side-by-side configurations operating multiple engines. This multi events make it very unlikely to be withdrawn from active duty before 2030.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F-7BG was introduced in 2001. It is very unlikely that they will be withdrawn before 2030 (you may look at PAF F-7 or IAF Mig-21 bison for understanding. They have done various upgrades to keep them air worthy and shall remain in service beyond 2020).
> 
> 
> 
> There are still news of negotiations coming in.
> 
> 
> 
> BAF never considered the JF-17 because of its less capabilities.
> 
> Su-30MK has been primarily selected for the fighter aircraft procurement program. The contract may be signed in 2019 with delivery from 2021
> 
> 
> 
> That contract has been divided in two parts (according to rumors within the force). 24-32 Su-30MK and 8 Mig-29SMT.
> 
> 
> 
> The contract will be signed in 2019 with delivery from 2021.



I think they should look towards acquiring rather cheaper but good alternative like PAC:

Super Mushak
K-8s
JF-17 Dual seat

But they should be serious in acquiring at least 4 AEW&Cs from China on war footings...


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## Bamboo Castle

F-7MB:








F-7BG1:

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## Bamboo Castle



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## Bamboo Castle

Black Eagle 90 said:


> I think they should look towards acquiring rather cheaper but good alternative like PAC:
> 
> *Super Mushak
> K-8s
> JF-17 Dual seat*
> 
> But they should be serious in acquiring at least 4 AEW&Cs from China on war footings...



BAF has dropped the plan for the replacement of its Primary Trainer (PT-6, Bell-206, T-37) till 2024 to save cost. They have also dropped the plan for Transport aircraft (An-32) till 2024. The plan is to cut the expense in one place to accommodate some good procurement on the other. I think its a good plan.


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## Rokto14

Bamboo Castle said:


> BAF has dropped the plan for the replacement of its Primary Trainer (PT-6, Bell-206, T-37) till 2024 to save cost. They have also dropped the plan for Transport aircraft (An-32) till 2024. The plan is to cut the expense in one place to accommodate some good procurement on the other. I think its a good plan.



So after 2024, what trainer jets do you think BAF can procure to replace PT-6, Bell-206, T-37? And what about a replacement for An-32?


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## BDforever

Rokto14 said:


> So after 2024, what trainer jets do you think BAF can procure to replace PT-6, Bell-206, T-37? And what about a replacement for An-32?



1. most likely by own training aircraft to replace those training aircrafts.
2. Do not know about replacement plan of An-32, BAF uses An-32 for multi purpose- transport and bomber.

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## Bamboo Castle

Rokto14 said:


> So after 2024, what trainer jets do you think BAF can procure to replace PT-6, Bell-206, T-37? And what about a replacement for An-32?



I don't know much about it but someone suggested a single platform as trainer to replace PT-6 and T-37. The program is aimed as primary trainer, advanced trainer, counter insurgency trainer, counter insurgency aircraft, aerobatics aircraft with a single aircraft type.

An-32 was introduced in 1988 replacing the An-26 from service. On 2024 the aircraft will be 36 years old. You don't want aircraft that old in air force. Possible replacement might be An-140, CASA C-295, Alenia C-27J or May be something else.

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## Banglar Bagh



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## Luftwaffe

Bamboo Castle said:


> BAF never considered the JF-17 because of its less capabilities.

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## Luftwaffe

Bamboo Castle said:


> I don't know much about it but someone suggested a single platform as trainer to replace PT-6 and T-37. The program is aimed as primary trainer, advanced trainer, counter insurgency trainer, counter insurgency aircraft, aerobatics aircraft with a single aircraft type.
> 
> An-32 was introduced in 1988 replacing the An-26 from service. On 2024 the aircraft will be 36 years old. You don't want aircraft that old in air force. Possible replacement might be An-140, CASA C-295, Alenia C-27J or May be something else.



Tai Hurukus Trainer getting ready for Testing BAF should look into it there are 2 variants Basic and Advance/COIN.






Additional C-130s are ordered along with spares, upgrades, Engines I think BAF don't have money to purchase more Transports and it would be better to give AN-32 Life Extension with the help of Ukraine or look into Y-9...No info on Y-9.

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## Luftwaffe

Bamboo Castle said:


> I don't know much about it but someone suggested a single platform as trainer to replace PT-6 and T-37. The program is aimed as primary trainer, advanced trainer, counter insurgency trainer, counter insurgency aircraft, aerobatics aircraft with a single aircraft type.
> 
> An-32 was introduced in 1988 replacing the An-26 from service. On 2024 the aircraft will be 36 years old. You don't want aircraft that old in air force. Possible replacement might be An-140, CASA C-295, Alenia C-27J or May be something else.



Tai Hurukus Trainer getting ready for Testing BAF should look into it there are 2 version Basic and Advance/COIN.







Additional C-130s are ordered along with spares, upgrades, Engines I think BAF does not have money to purchase more Transports and it would be better to give AN-32 Life Extension with the help of Ukraine or look into Y-9...No info on Y-9.


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## british_bengali

JF-17 is better than anything we have currently in our air force. It was considered and evalutated but the engines for them are either russian(who does not want to be exported in chinese jets) or newly designed Chinese ones (which im sure the chinese arent keen to export). But there is nothing wrong with it's capabilities. It is just that we are looking at Air superiority figther and the JF-17 is mostly suited towards reconnaissance,interception and air to ground bombing,that is one of the main reasons it was ruled out alongside the Engine diplomacy. 

Any Pakistani here will tell you that the JF-17 was made to help Complement their F-16s and J-10s-it was not designed to fight aircraft such as SU-30MKI,thats the f-16s and J-10Bs .However your statement about the JF-17 capability is unjust. It is a remarkable aircraft and a milestone for the PAF.It has recently just been reported that they are running tests to check inflight Fueling capability. - Enhancing airpower: JF-17 to attain in-flight refueling capability &#8211; The Express Tribune 

As for Future Transport,i know the budget for this current fisical year has been allocated mostly to air transport(C-130 or they may have meant additional Helis) and MRLS. However apart from C-130s , i do not know if any other troop transport being evaluted.


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## Black Eagle 90

Bamboo Castle said:


> BAF has dropped the plan for the replacement of its Primary Trainer (PT-6, Bell-206, T-37) till 2024 to save cost. They have also dropped the plan for Transport aircraft (An-32) till 2024. The plan is to cut the expense in one place to accommodate some good procurement on the other. I think its a good plan.



Cutting on training would result in bad. Also they should cut in terms of operations as well like fighter operations which cost too much. Rather they should buy 4-6 Chinese AEW&Cs for such operations...


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## Bamboo Castle

british_bengali said:


> JF-17 is better than anything we have currently in our air force. It was considered and evalutated but the engines for them are either russian(who does not want to be exported in chinese jets) or newly designed Chinese ones (which im sure the chinese arent keen to export). But there is nothing wrong with it's capabilities. It is just that we are looking at Air superiority figther and the JF-17 is mostly suited towards reconnaissance,interception and air to ground bombing,that is one of the main reasons it was ruled out alongside the Engine diplomacy.
> 
> Any Pakistani here will tell you that the JF-17 was made to help Complement their F-16s and J-10s-it was not designed to fight aircraft such as SU-30MKI,thats the f-16s and J-10Bs .However your statement about the JF-17 capability is unjust. It is a remarkable aircraft and a milestone for the PAF.It has recently just been reported that they are running tests to check inflight Fueling capability. - Enhancing airpower: JF-17 to attain in-flight refueling capability  The Express Tribune
> 
> As for Future Transport,i know the budget for this current fisical year has been allocated mostly to air transport(C-130 or they may have meant additional Helis) and MRLS. However apart from C-130s , i do not know if any other troop transport being evaluted.



If you go with the capabilities of air to ground then JH-7A could have been a great fighter for Bangladesh. It can carry 3 times more weapons than Mig-29 and JF-17, it can carry all sorts of air to ground weapons. But we are not talking about an Attack aircraft or a fighter bomber. 

In air-to-air mission the JF-17 does not stand a chance against Su-30, Mig-29, F-16 and even J-10. 

In Interception role the JF-17 is no where to be found with its mediocre top speed of Mach 1.6. 

In the radar section, JF-17 is armed with KLJ-7 radar with a max range of 75-130km. Mig-29B has N019 radar with a max range of 90-150km with 130º coverage. With SMT upgrade you will get N019MP radar or N019M1 radar. 

*N019MP* is a further modified radar proposed by Phazotron for the MiG-29SMT program. It used a Baguet series processor. The maximum range remained the about the same, but the radar could detect 20 targets simultaneously, track four, and engage two. The radar had also basic air-to-ground functions, like ground mapping mode, acquisition and engagement of sea targets with radar homing missiles, and ground targets with unguided weaponry under any weather conditions, day and night. The NO19MP could generate maps of 15×15, 24×24, 50×50 or 77x77km with a resolution of 15m. Radar imagery could be transmitted via datalink to GCI centres or A-50 AWACS aircraft. Targets visible on the radar map could be designated by the pilot(using a joystick) or ground controller, and used to cue TV-guided missile seekers, whose higher resolution imagery can then be displayed or transmitted to the GCI or A-50 controller as well. Performance against slow flying helicopters was improved as well as resistance to jamming. Uses Doppler beam sharpening techniques.

or 

*N019M1* This latest radar upgrade proposal from Phazotron retains the antenna and transmitter block assemblies but replaces pretty much all the rest of the radar. It introduces new fully programmable digital processing, giving 30-50% greater range in air-to-air search and track. Greatly improved true Track-while-scan mode, with the ability to continue volume search for new targets while tracking 10. 4 targets can engaged at once with R-77 missiles. 4 different close combat modes are available. Has raid assessment mode, and target class recognition. Air to surface modes include Real beam, DBS, SAR (5x5m), and moving target detection. Can handoff target data to the Kh-31A/Kh-35A anti-shipping missiles. Allows target handoff to TV guided weapons. Collision alarm system. It is being touted as a low cost upgrade for existing MiG-29 operators.

And with SMT upgrade, JF-17 will even dare to go against Mig-29.

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## Rokto14

BDforever said:


> 1. most likely by own training aircraft to replace those training aircrafts.
> 2. Do not know about replacement plan of An-32, BAF uses An-32 for multi purpose- transport and bomber.



What about C-160 or C17 Globemaster as replacements?


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## BDforever

Rokto14 said:


> What about C-160 or C17 Globemaster as replacements?



do not know, depends on price and maintenance cost.

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## Rokto14

Bamboo Castle said:


> I don't know much about it but someone suggested a single platform as trainer to replace PT-6 and T-37. The program is aimed as primary trainer, advanced trainer, counter insurgency trainer, counter insurgency aircraft, aerobatics aircraft with a single aircraft type.
> 
> An-32 was introduced in 1988 replacing the An-26 from service. On 2024 the aircraft will be 36 years old. You don't want aircraft that old in air force. Possible replacement might be An-140, CASA C-295, Alenia C-27J or May be something else.



I searched about Russian transport aircrafts. I found Ilyushin Il 76, Antonov An-72 and An-72 ain't that bad too.


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## BDforever

can anyone tell me what is going on ? for few months, almost every day I hear Air force aircraft's sound. Is it for training or has made policy to patrol air space ?


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## Bamboo Castle

Rokto14 said:


> I searched about Russian transport aircrafts. I found Ilyushin Il 76, Antonov An-72 and An-72 ain't that bad too.



We have 4 C-130B and an additional 4 C-130E is on the process of acquiring which are good medium lift transport/cargo aircraft. In the light-medium aircraft section AN-32B is doing the job. The AN-32s are now more than 25 years old. A mid-life upgrade can increase the lifespan for 10-15 years max. So, by 2025 Bangladesh air force will need to replace those AN-32 with similar capability aircraft.

The 4 C-130Bs in the service will also need replacement in 2025. They can't upgrade the C-130B any further. Besides, They entered in BAF after refurbishment with mid-life upgrades. The air frames wont be able to take the stress after that long time in service. In the meantime, 4 C-130E will join BAF by 2017. This suggests that BAF may replace the existing C-130B with C-130J beyond 2025. The C-130Es to be added in BAF in 2017 will probably get a mid-life upgrade by 2030 and convert to C-130J as well.

This is completely my own analysis.

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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> can anyone tell me what is going on ? for few months, almost every day I hear Air force aircraft's sound. Is it for training or *has made policy to patrol air space* ?



Yes, you are right, they are patrolling the airspace to shoot down Sayedi from the moon

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## Bamboo Castle



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## Bamboo Castle



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## BDforever

Bamboo Castle said:


> We have 4 C-130B and an additional 4 C-130E is on the process of acquiring which are good medium lift transport/cargo aircraft. In the light-medium aircraft section AN-32B is doing the job. The AN-32s are now more than 25 years old. A mid-life upgrade can increase the lifespan for 10-15 years max. So, by 2025 Bangladesh air force will need to replace those AN-32 with similar capability aircraft.
> 
> The 4 C-130Bs in the service will also need replacement in 2025. They can't upgrade the C-130B any further. Besides, They entered in BAF after refurbishment with mid-life upgrades. The air frames wont be able to take the stress after that long time in service. In the meantime, 4 C-130E will join BAF by 2017. This suggests that BAF may replace the existing C-130B with C-130J beyond 2025. The C-130Es to be added in BAF in 2017 will probably get a mid-life upgrade by 2030 and convert to C-130J as well.
> 
> This is completely my own analysis.


some info is not correct, current 4 C-130B are under upgrading process into C-130H and it will increase life frame 20 years more.


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## british_bengali

BDforever said:


> can anyone tell me what is going on ? for few months, almost every day I hear Air force aircraft's sound. Is it for training or has made policy to patrol air space ?



Air force's Budget is increasing,They are likely trying to get in a lot more training Hours to give them a more proffessional force.

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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> some info is not correct, current 4 C-130B are under upgrading process into C-130H and it will increase life frame 20 years more.



Would really be happy if this is true but so far I did not come across any news via any media about this upgrade. Are you certain about this C-130H thing?


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## BDforever

Bamboo Castle said:


> Would really be happy if this is true but so far I did not come across any news via any media about this upgrade. Are you certain about this C-130H thing?



yes , i saw it few months ago in some websites about it, BD is going to buy 4 C130E which will be upgraded to C130H too

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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> yes , i saw it few months ago in some websites about it, BD is going to buy 4 C130E which will be upgraded to C130H too



BD has a plan to upgrade those C-130E into C-130H standard, yes. however, I did not find anything about C-130B to be upgraded to C-130H standard.


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## BDforever

Bamboo Castle said:


> BD has a plan to upgrade those C-130E into C-130H standard, yes. however, I did not find anything about C-130B to be upgraded to C-130H standard.



yes, under same deal with USA. i saw the detail about the deal in some sites, it is about 6 months ago.

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## M.H.J.

F-7BGI 











- MHJ ...

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## BDforever

M.H.J. said:


> F-7BGI



some wrong info in it, i saw it before. Anyway MHJ tell us something new about BD armed forces, it has been long time no update about procurements


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## cirr

M.H.J. said:


> F-7BGI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...



Hey&#65292;this is a real beauty&#65281;

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## Nike

Rokto14 said:


> What about C-160 or C17 Globemaster as replacements?



And if you look at the contract of Australia in 2006, they must pay around 780 million US dollar and additional fee for sustainment program about 80,7 million US dollar for 4 unit C 17 Globe master. And the deal was done in 2006, in which inflation rate and time of delivery will be put into consideration for new price tag.
I had a calculation about price tag per unit, training session, simulator, spares and maintenance equipment in which USA like their partner to put all of it into contract for all of their arms sales will be going around 450 millions US dollar to 550 millions US dollar for a unit of C 17 Globemaster in 2013. The cost purchasing per unit will decrease if you purchasing more units from USA and this was the standard pattern when you do a business with them.

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## Rokto14

madokafc said:


> And if you look at the contract of Australia in 2006, they must pay around 780 million US dollar and additional fee for sustainment program about 80,7 million US dollar for 4 unit C 17 Globe master. And the deal was done in 2006, in which inflation rate and time of delivery will be put into consideration for new price tag.
> I had a calculation about price tag per unit, training session, simulator, spares and maintenance equipment in which USA like their partner to put all of it into contract for all of their arms sales will be going around 450 millions US dollar to 550 millions US dollar for a unit of C 17 Globemaster in 2013. The cost purchasing per unit will decrease if you purchasing more units from USA and this was the standard pattern when you do a business with them.



Thats really too damn for BAF. Then what about C160?


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## Lipizzaner_Stallion

M.H.J. said:


> F-7BGI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...


*
I think these are just waste of money. BD Air force should go for 4th Gen fighters and in huge numbers .... based on capability of their adversaries. In front of Sukhoi 30MKIs, Mig-29s, upcoming Rafaels and 5th Gen PAK-FAs they will serve only as live shooting practice for your enemies.
*

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## J dud

Lipizzaner_Stallion said:


> *
> I think these are just waste of money. BD Air force should go for 4th Gen fighters and in huge numbers .... based on capability of their adversaries. In front of Sukhoi 30MKIs, Mig-29s, upcoming Rafaels and 5th Gen PAK-FAs they will serve only as live shooting practice for your enemies.
> *



Superiority complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Anubis

New BAF C130E was spotted over Portugal....probably coming to BD.3 more on the way.

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## BDforever

RiasatKhan said:


> New BAF C130E was spotted over Portugal....probably coming to BD.3 more on the way.



how do you know ? are you in portugal ? 

edit: i got the source, that is reliable

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## Anubis

BDforever said:


> how do you know ? are you in portugal ?
> 
> edit: i got the source, that is reliable



Photo: S3-AGD (CN: 61-2640) Bangladesh - Air Force Lockheed C-130B Hercules by THOMAS FERREIRA - JetPhotos.Net

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## BDforever

RiasatKhan said:


> Photo: S3-AGD (CN: 61-2640) Bangladesh - Air Force Lockheed C-130B Hercules by THOMAS FERREIRA - JetPhotos.Net



it says C-130B not C-130E, anyway the deal will finish in 2018


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## Anubis

BDforever said:


> how do you know ? are you in portugal ?
> 
> edit: i got the source, that is reliable



I got a question for you.....are the initials of your real name RKA??


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## BDforever

RiasatKhan said:


> I got a question for you.....are the initials of your real name RKA??



no bro  are you SA ?


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## Anubis

BDforever said:


> no bro  are you SA ?



no....but I have a hunch I know you!I just can't figure it out!

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## BDforever

RiasatKhan said:


> no....but I have a hunch I know you!I just can't figure it out!



hahaha it can not be because i am silent follower of other sources, never participate

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## british_bengali

A bit Old,however im sure anyone who looked at the title of this news report did'nt bother readin it however, it does give confirmation of something pretty interesting on future aircraft. 

Eight more fighters join BAF fleet - 
Eight more fighters join BAF fleet 
Eight more F-7BG1 fighters have been added to Bangladesh Air Force recently, raising the number to 16 in the squadron, officials said.
The defence ministry officials said that the eight new Chinese-made F-7BG1 fighter aircraft reached Bangladesh from China on Sunday. 
Each of the fighters worth about US$ 9.8 million would strengthen the operational capabilities of the Air Force, the officials told New Age on Monday.
According to the armed forces division, the Awami League-led government procured 16 F-7BG1 or FT-7BG1, three MI-171SH helicopters and two air defence radars in its second financial year.
Of the 16 F7BG1, eight advanced fighter aircraft were inducted into the force&#8217;s fleet at a ceremony attended by the prime minister, Sheikh Hasina, at the BAF Base Bangabandhu in Dhaka on April 9.
According to the armed force division, the 16 fighters and fighters training aircraft were brought from China under a state-to-state deal. 
Besides, purchasing of 12 multi-role combat planes, 12 advances jet trainers, two maritime search and rescue planes and nine Jet trainers are also under process of procurement from Russia under the state export credit agreement, the officials said. 

well, looks like we're going to be receiving russian aircraft.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Can anyone tell me the status of Bogra Airfield? As far as I know, the "airfield" was inaugurated in March 2005 and that some BAF planes do operate from there. One training aircraft even crashed there in October 2009.


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## eastwatch

I am posting an opinion from the facebook about F-7BGI. 

F-7BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far.

1) F-7BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2

2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks

3) Full glass cockpit.

4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.

5) F-7BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.

6) F-7BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)

7) afterburner: F-7BGI (82 kN) thrust

8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .

9) F-7BGI got J-7G2 Air frame with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.

10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g

11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI

12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.

13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.

14) Reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig-21s and many of the other contemporary fighters.

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## Anubis

Bamboo Castle said:


> And if you ask those Bangladeshi guy how much money should we spend in Military he would probably say, why do we even need a military force, why are we wasting our money in military?
> 
> 
> 
> However, please do not fall for rumors.. You will find rumors are spreading about this and that but if you physically check them you will not find them there. Most of the rumors are brain-fart of some fan-boy. The part that you will find true did also spread as rumors but it was in fact an evaluation version that may also be a part of a bigger procurement deal.



Actually we don't spend much on the military....yet thanks to loans from friendly nations we buy more stuff than our budget can pay for....and as the national budget doesn't show the loans in their allocation....keeps the public happy!


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## Gyp 111

F-7BGI












C-130B Hercules

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## scot

BD should invest for fifth generation or atleast 4+ generation(like Tejas) for it's armada.


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## british_bengali

scot said:


> BD should invest for fifth generation or atleast 4+ generation(like Tejas) for it's armada.



We barely have any 4.5 generation aircraft.Also investments for such aircraft are usually in the billions-which we could use to buy Aircraft instead of investing in such. 
Im sure the tejas isn't up for Export.(Althought if im wrong please correct me)


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## eastwatch

scot said:


> BD should invest for fifth generation or atleast 4+ generation(like Tejas) for it's armada.



You could have suggested BD to start from the abcd of 1.0G jet.


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## Allah Akbar

tejas can be used balughat to firmgate route but not for defence purpose.4+ GEN tempu


scot said:


> BD should invest for fifth generation or atleast 4+ generation(like Tejas) for it's armada.

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## Nishan_101

The best deal for BAF is to go to PAC and shop for:
Super Mushak
K-8
JF-17 Block-II with dual seat
UAVs

And also PAF and BAF can buy RSAF C-130s which they are selling at a cheaper rates now....

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## british_bengali

Nishan_101 said:


> The best deal for BAF is to go to PAC and shop for:
> Super Mushak
> K-8
> JF-17 Block-II with dual seat
> UAVs
> 
> And also PAF and BAF can buy RSAF C-130s which they are selling at a cheaper rates now....



Any UAVs in mind for BD? 

I am really surprised by the lack of UAVs for the BD military. Nigeria even has some(yes i know they are richer and got them from Israel) and their military is not any better than ours.


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## Nishan_101

british_bengali said:


> Any UAVs in mind for BD?
> 
> I am really surprised by the lack of UAVs for the BD military. Nigeria even has some(yes i know they are richer and got them from Israel) and their military is not any better than ours.



PAC, NESCOM and KRL-GIDS manufacture many of the types of UAVs and most of them might not be in people eyes yet. So BDs and SriLanka can come to buy them in big numbers.

For Nigeria I would say that its relation with Pakistan is getting stronger we may see a bigger defence deal with them in near future for AIr, Land and even sea system. INSHA ALLAH.


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## british_bengali

Nishan_101 said:


> PAC, NESCOM and KRL-GIDS manufacture many of the types of UAVs and most of them might not be in people eyes yet. So BDs and SriLanka can come to buy them in big numbers.
> 
> For Nigeria I would say that its relation with Pakistan is getting stronger we may see a bigger defence deal with them in near future for AIr, Land and even sea system. INSHA ALLAH.



Nigerians and Pakistan already have a very good defence relations and you guys train them. However I have read in beegeagle's website that the Indians are making a push for anti air missiles. Again im not familiar with their procurement methods but they sure need a hell of a lot of new equipment. 

I have read somewhere that BD was trying to make it's own. However i would not quote me on that and these UAVs are likely just very simple surveliance although how are Belarus doing in that area? considering the whole Military techinal deal.Im pretty sure americans will never give them to us and i have never really heard of Russian and Chinese UAVs.(Im sure they have them)


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## bd_4_ever

british_bengali said:


> Nigerians and Pakistan already have a very good defence relations and you guys train them. However I have read in beegeagle's website that the Indians are making a push for anti air missiles. Again im not familiar with their procurement methods but they sure need a hell of a lot of new equipment.
> 
> I have read somewhere that BD was trying to make it's own. However i would not quote me on that and these UAVs are likely just very simple surveliance although how are Belarus doing in that area? considering the whole Military techinal deal.Im pretty sure americans will never give them to us and i have never really heard of Russian and Chinese UAVs.(Im sure they have them)



Dont worry, we have UAVs. Our army operates them. But it aint those super cool ones. Just for small surveillance purposes. And afaik, they are locally built. I remember seeing the picture with our army official as well.


Cheers!!!

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## bd_4_ever

british_bengali said:


> Any UAVs in mind for BD?
> 
> I am really surprised by the lack of UAVs for the BD military. Nigeria even has some(yes i know they are richer and got them from Israel) and their military is not any better than ours.



Apparently, their military spending is around $3.5 billion (from wiki). Also, their army seems to be stronger of the 3, with around 200k personnel and even more paramilitary. Air force and Navy are pretty small, still larger compared to African nations. But, their naval air arm is bigger than ours. 


Cheers!!!

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## british_bengali

bd_4_ever said:


> Apparently, their military spending is around $3.5 billion (from wiki). Also, their army seems to be stronger of the 3, with around 200k personnel and even more paramilitary. Air force and Navy are pretty small, still larger compared to African nations. But, their naval air arm is bigger than ours.
> 
> 
> Cheers!!!



Strange...For a military of 3.5 billion i would expect more than 2 frigates. Their Aradu is a great ship but its old and the hamilton they got is still only armed with 76 mm gun. 
Size isn't everything. I understand what you mean but their military tech and equipment is lacking. Their airforce has never flown a 4th generation aircraft,we have. They bought F-7s for aroung 250 million and we got 16 heavily upgraded one for around 100 million.
Although they do beat us in some areas, their naval arm started much much earlier than ours. Their military is one of the most dominate in africa.
Our budget is roughly 1.6 billion...Imagine how our military would be with that much money.


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## bd_4_ever

british_bengali said:


> Strange...For a military of 3.5 billion i would expect more than 2 frigates. Their Aradu is a great ship but its old and the hamilton they got is still only armed with 76 mm gun.
> Size isn't everything. I understand what you mean but their military tech and equipment is lacking. Their airforce has never flown a 4th generation aircraft,we have. They bought F-7s for aroung 250 million and we got 16 heavily upgraded one for around 100 million.
> Although they do beat us in some areas, their naval arm started much much earlier than ours. Their military is one of the most dominate in africa.
> Our budget is roughly 1.6 billion...Imagine how our military would be with that much money.



Yah well that would not matter as half of it will enter our politicians' pockets. Having said that, their military is tested in various other African nations and underwent many operations. This is an issue with us. How much ever confidence we have in our military, it isnt tested. So we dont know.

I guess in due time, Nigeria will develop their military as well. Their army is in good shape.


Cheers!!!

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## mb444

Nigeria has a lot of issues to deal with, they have a north south divide between Muslim Christian states. They are fighting the boko haram weirdos, they have various states/tribes fighting for independence etc. Nigerias security issues are materially different than ours hence the big military and paramilitary forces.

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## Nishan_101

british_bengali said:


> Nigerians and Pakistan already have a very good defence relations and you guys train them. However I have read in beegeagle's website that the Indians are making a push for anti air missiles. Again im not familiar with their procurement methods but they sure need a hell of a lot of new equipment.
> 
> I have read somewhere that BD was trying to make it's own. However i would not quote me on that and these UAVs are likely just very simple surveliance although how are Belarus doing in that area? considering the whole Military techinal deal.Im pretty sure americans will never give them to us and i have never really heard of Russian and Chinese UAVs.(Im sure they have them)



Actually Pakistan has achieved much better technology through R&D locally as well as with Italy and China too. I am sure that Pakistan is also try to improve relations with African countries and also trying to produce more and more equipments too...

Also we have a high hope of producing cars and vehicles on our own too. INSHA ALLAH.

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## eastwatch

british_bengali said:


> Our budget is roughly 1.6 billion...Imagine how our military would be with that much money.



People unduly give importance to this $1.6 billion figure as the defense budget. The reality is import of weapons is not included in this figure. I think, it has been discussed before many times. To know the real military budget one must add the import value, also.

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## PlanetSoldier

bd_4_ever said:


> Yah well that would not matter as half of it will enter our politicians' pockets. Having said that, their military is tested in various other African nations and underwent many operations. This is an issue with us. How much ever confidence we have in our military, it isnt tested. So we dont know.
> 
> I guess in due time, Nigeria will develop their military as well. Their army is in good shape.
> 
> 
> Cheers!!!



BA is the only army in the world where every member has on field experience because of UN mission. Our army size is smaller and every member in turn is sent to UN mission but in a bigger army it's not possible.


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## damiendehorn

PlanetSoldier said:


> BA is the only army in the world where every member has on field experience because of UN mission. Our army size is smaller and every member in turn is sent to UN mission but in a bigger army it's not possible.



I doubt that's the case, as the standing army now reaches almost 300000 and then there is the BGB, navy, airforce and police who all are eligible for deployment in the UN. The majority of our forces do not get UN deployment, only a portion do, and those that do earn a lot relative to what they earn in bd.

However the deployment enables the army and other services to get on the field training and interact with forces around the world. The army has moved a long long way in last 15-20 years, and has become very professional, prob the best institute in the country, certainly the most disciplined.

The future for our forces look bright, as the economy picks up steam, the capability will expand in parallel.


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## PlanetSoldier

damiendehorn said:


> I doubt that's the case, as the standing army now reaches almost 300000 and then there is the BGB, navy, airforce and police who all are eligible for deployment in the UN. The majority of our forces do not get UN deployment, only a portion do, and those that do earn a lot relative to what they earn in bd.
> 
> However the deployment enables the army and other services to get on the field training and interact with forces around the world. The army has moved a long long way in last 15-20 years, and has become very professional, prob the best institute in the country, certainly the most disciplined.
> 
> The future for our forces look bright, as the economy picks up steam, the capability will expand in parallel.



I said about army only but the same is probably applicable to air force. BDR members had demand for UN mission, last I know it hasn't been materialized yet. And BA size is less than or within 250000 not 300000.

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## bd_4_ever

PlanetSoldier said:


> BA is the only army in the world where every member has on field experience because of UN mission. Our army size is smaller and every member in turn is sent to UN mission but in a bigger army it's not possible.



That isnt the case. Not everyone gets to go. Even though UN mission experience is valuable, it is different from facing internal threats or going into war. 


Cheers!!!

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## bd_4_ever

damiendehorn said:


> The army has moved a long long way in last 15-20 years, and has become very professional, prob the best institute in the country, certainly the most disciplined.
> 
> The future for our forces look bright, as the economy picks up steam, the capability will expand in parallel.



Well said. We just need to keep the professionalism and hard training ticking. Work with forces around the world and polish the quality as well. As the beefing up process is going on, we should be in a very formidable state with a decade.


Cheers!!!

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## damiendehorn

PlanetSoldier said:


> I said about army only but the same is probably applicable to air force. BDR members had demand for UN mission, last I know it hasn't been materialized yet. And BA size is less than or within 250000 not 300000.



As far as I know, post pilkana incident there have been some major changes. BGB elements are posted under UN but just a handful from what I have been told. The army and police have the most deployed personnel, as I used to fly to dhaka quite a lot, I often used to sit next and chat to a few, they earned good money from each deployment.

It's hard to tell the current strength of the BA as there are many conflicting figures being banded about, but it is definitely above 250000 and under 300000, still don't understand what the great secrecy is in the actual numbers? Either way not all manage to go abroad, and few manage to go multiple times.

What ever is the case it's good for all, the UN benefits from having our troops available, as other western nations are either worried about risking their nationals or it's too expensive to deploy western troops. For us we get experience and the troops earn some extra money.


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## eastwatch

It's hard to tell the current strength of the BA as there are many conflicting figures being banded about, but it is definitely above 250000 and under 300000, still don't understand what the great secrecy is in the actual numbers?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/168817-bangladesh-air-force-64.html#ixzz2gPKwIv1U

As far as I have learned from many sources, BA has now only eight divisions. If it is correct, then BA has less than 200,000 active troops. However, it has a strong 50,000 reserve troops, consisting of those trained troops who have retired from the army for some reason, but who are still young and can immediately be absorbed in the BA in times of emergency. Correct me if I am wrong.

Then of course BA has under its control BGB, Ansars and VDP under its control. No explanation is needed for BGB. It is trained with the army recruits and are a capable lightly armed infantry. Ansar is a less trained group, but it has about a million troop strength who can be mobilized very effectively during emergency. Though it is superficially under the Home Ministry (BGB also same), it is commanded by military officers making it a strong force.

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## british_bengali

Conflicting Numbers is likely just for a phycological impact on the Myanmese-They are incredibly paranoid about either us or the Thais invading them. 
As far as effiecincy goes, we have a very effiecent force and even the myanmese have noticed that we can mobilise forces much quicker than they can.


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## bd_4_ever

eastwatch said:


> As far as I have learned from many sources, BA has now only eight divisions. If it is correct, then BA has less than 200,000 active troops. However, it has a strong 50,000 reserve troops, consisting of those trained troops who have retired from the army for some reason, but who are still young and can immediately be absorbed in the BA in times of emergency. Correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Then of course BA has under its control BGB, Ansars and VDP under its control. No explanation is needed for BGB. It is trained with the army recruits and are a capable lightly armed infantry. Ansar is a less trained group, but it has about a million troop strength who can be mobilized very effectively during emergency. Though it is superficially under the Home Ministry (BGB also same), it is commanded by military officers making it a strong force.



That is what i am aware of as well. Long back i read in a book that BA had 7 divisions and were on the process of raising it to eight. So i assume your comments are right. Apart from that, i am not too worried about the numbers. As long as they are very well trained, the 200,000 or so troops shall suffice for some years to come.

According to me, the optimum strength for us should be around 300-400K. 


Cheers!!!


----------



## bd_4_ever

british_bengali said:


> Conflicting Numbers is likely just for a phycological impact on the Myanmese-They are incredibly paranoid about either us or the Thais invading them.
> As far as effiecincy goes, we have a very effiecent force and even the myanmese have noticed that we can mobilise forces much quicker than they can.



I guess its far more simple. The numbers contradict just because the BA doesnt want it published. This comes at no surprise as that is how our defence structure behaves. 

I believe the Burmese Tatmadaw (Army) is well experienced in COIN operations and frequent clashes with the Thais, hence we cant undermine their efficiency. But i think in any scenario of conflict with them, there could be a good chance that we mobilize our SWADS.


Cheers!!!

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

any update from the latest round of negotiations between BAF and Rosoboronexport?


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## bigbossman



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## british_bengali

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> any update from the latest round of negotiations between BAF and Rosoboronexport?



No news on anything so far and nothing has been confirmed as of yet.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

its quite a history now this one..... it started in February 2012.... still no final word!! 



british_bengali said:


> No news on anything so far and nothing has been confirmed as of yet.


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## british_bengali

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> its quite a history now this one..... it started in February 2012.... still no final word!!



The one your taking about in Feb 2012 was 850 million dollars...It only got changed to 1 billion dollars in Jan 2013. Even Russian experts have stated that the Loan will not be used all at once but in small orders over the next few years. 

We will probably get some news before the End of October....I hope

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

thats why I said - its quite a history now.....

February 2012:
"A delegation of Russian defence exports giant Rosoboronexport is visiting the capital to give final shape to the proposed arms purchase deal of $850 million between Dhaka and Moscow. His (Anatoly P Isaikin, chief of Rosoboronexport) visit followed initial negotiations held late last year between officials of the two countries." 
New Age | Newspaper

July 2012:
"A four-member team of officials leaves Dhaka today for Moscow for finalizing a deal for buying military hardware from Russia. Dhaka has been negotiating the deal with Moscow since last year for procuring Russian made fighter planes and choppers over the next five years under suppliers&#8217; credit worth $850 million. Bangladesh agreed to buy 10 fighter trainer planes from Rosoboronexport." 
Officials leave for Moscow today

September 2012:
"Dhaka has requested Moscow to increase its credit to US$ 1 billion from $850 million for the procurement of Russian made military hardware. Bangladesh government conveyed its request to its Russian counterpart during a negotiation held in Moscow in July."
Dhaka wants $1b credit

January 2013:
"Russian President Vladimir Putin on Jan. 15 met the prime minister of Bangladesh for talks that included the signing of a $1 billion arms contract. The arms purchase agreement included orders for armored vehicles and infantry weapons, air defense systems and Mi-17 transport helicopters, a source close to Russia&#8217;s state arms export agency told the Vedomosti business daily. The source said the purchase did not include any tank orders because Bangladesh had earlier obtained those from China. Bangladesh also opted out of its initial plans to purchase eight advanced Mig-29 fighter jets because of their $500 million price tag."
Russia, Bangladesh Seal $1 Billion Arms Deal | Defense News | defensenews.com

March 2013:
Bangladesh is planning to buy 24 Yak-130 Mitten jet trainers on $1 billion credit from Russia. &#8220;Bangladesh has a whole list of arms it wants, but so far that is a state secret. I will reveal one little secret: The purchase of Yak-130 warplanes is a very significant subject of negotiations between Russia and Bangladesh,&#8221; Rosoboronexport Deputy Chief Viktor Komardin said at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition (LIMA-2013)
Bangladesh Plans to Buy 24 Russian Jet Trainers | World | RIA Novosti

September 2013:
"The committee was formed following the government's decision to buy 24 Yak-130 Mitten jet trainers, five MI-171Sh helicopter and one Mi-17-1V helicopter from Russia using $1.0 billion state credit facility"
http://thenewnationbd.com/newsdetails.aspx?newsid=71048

September 2013:
"A Russian government delegation has arrived in Dhaka to finalise the cost to the Bangladesh government for purchasing 24 advanced jet trainer fighters and six helicopters.Both the sides are also expected to fix the value of 480 anti-tank missiles.They said the loan repayment period is in 20 installments over a 10-year period starting from April 15, 2018." 
Price to be settled through talks

the Rosoboronexport team left Bangladesh on 16 September 2013..... no final news from that negotiations yet.....



british_bengali said:


> The one your taking about in Feb 2012 was 850 million dollars...It only got changed to 1 billion dollars in Jan 2013. Even Russian experts have stated that the Loan will not be used all at once but in small orders over the next few years.
> 
> We will probably get some news before the End of October....I hope

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## asad71

eastwatch said:


> I am posting an opinion from the facebook about F-7BGI.
> 
> F-7BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far.
> 
> 1) F-7BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
> 
> 2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
> 
> 3) Full glass cockpit.
> 
> 4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
> 
> 5) F-7BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
> 
> 6) F-7BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)
> 
> 7) afterburner: F-7BGI (82 kN) thrust
> 
> 8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
> 
> 9) F-7BGI got J-7G2 Air frame with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
> 
> 10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
> 
> 11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
> 
> 12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.
> 
> 13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
> 
> 14) Reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig-21s and many of the other contemporary fighters.



The clock is ticking loud for Hasina to flee. BAF will then be able to acquire what they really need. For instance BAF pilots have flown the J-10 and like it. We would get some J-10Bs, but not till the pro-Indian group is in power.

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## tntcfive

i heard some rumour about joint venture of baf and plaaf to produce 100 fighter jet in bangladesh from 2018.if that is true then it will be a great news for bangladesh.

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## Zabaniyah

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> thats why I said - its quite a history now.....



Good riddance...


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## fatman17

*Bangladesh Air Force*
Posted on: November 1st, 2011
BANGLADESH HAS shown remarkable resolve and resilience since gaining independence 37 years ago. In doing so it has built a strong and professional military, used more often for nation-building than for conflict.



With its brake ‘chute fully extended, the Kurmitola Base Commander taxies his MiG-29 Fulcrum-A, off the runway, which the BAF’s premier air base shares with Dhaka’s Zia International Airport.
However, like so many countries in this part of the world, a crisis never seems to be far away, which demands a high state of operational readiness from its military. The Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), with a force of about 11,000 personnel operating a mixed bag of fighters, helicopters and transport aircraft from the east and west, has the responsibility of defending its air space from any intruder.



In the skies over Bangladesh, the F-7BG must be very difficult to spot, but down below the clouds, it is a different story. The BAF’s F-7 fleet wears some high-viz markings as seen here, which include 5 Sqn’s name ‘Defenders’ on the nose. Note that this example has two fuel tanks under the wings rather than one large one on the central hard point as many of the other -BGs carry.
In an exclusive interview, the BAF Chief of the Air Staff, Air Marshal SM Ziaur Rahman, told AFM that his force had three main objectives: to defend the air space of the country, provide support to ground forces and to assist the government when called for, particularly during any natural disasters. Unfortunately, Bangladesh suffers its fair share of these because, as a low-lying delta, it is regularly threatened by floods owing to monsoon rains, tidal bore and cyclones coming off the Bay of Bengal. As well as handling these crises, the BAF supports UN peacekeeping operations.



Here, the bigger wider spine of the FT-7MB is visible as it rolls down the end of the runway after a training sortie. Its colour scheme is in complete contrast to the other FT-7MB or F-7MBs of 35 Sqn ‘Thundercats’.
Like many former British colonies, the BAF is based on the RAF ranking system. Unlike Pakistan, it has kept its traditional RAF rank lapels.  There are four wings at each operational air base: Operations, Flying, Maintenance and Administration. The head of each wing is usually a Group Captain reporting to the Air Officer Commanding (AOC) of the base.
Like any professional air force, the BAF keeps its operational readiness at a high level to meet any potential security threats, although none are deemed to be at the severe level they have sometimes been in the past.

An FT-7BG sits on the ramp, ready for its next mission. The open gun-bay underneath the aircraft and the cannon pods means it was probably going on a low-level gunnery mission. The single seat F-7BGs has two guns, either side of the forward fuselage.
Bangladesh currently enjoys good relations with neighbouring India, which surrounds the majority of its borders. However, until the 1996 Ganges Water Treaty, relations between the two countries were strained. This agreement ensures India allows 45% of the River Ganges water, a main source of fresh water for the 37-year-old state, to flow down from the Himalayas into Bangladesh. However, there are concerns that India could cut off this water.
Another source of potential tension would be if India recommenced the sheltering, arming and training of Chakma rebels, should the group choose to launch another insurgency. The Chakma had run a guerrilla campaign against Bangladesh’s security forces, over land disputes, until they were finally resolved in December 1997, when the Chittagong Hill Tracts Peace Accord was signed.
There is no official maritime boundary with Myanmar in the south east, so there is also the possibility of a stand-off between the two countries over the exploration of huge amounts of oil and gas, as well as fishing rights, which conceivably could escalate into war. In November 2008, Myanmar allegedly began oil and gas extraction in the disputed waters in the Bay of Bengal, which led to the Bangladesh Navy promptly sending vessels to the area to monitor the situation. One senior government advisor vowed: “we will defend our sovereignty at all costs.”



Developed from the Sheyang F-6, the A-5III Fantan joined the BAF in the late-1980s as a ground attack/close air support aircraft. Despite the onset of obsolescence, the aircraft is now going through a service life extension along with several FT-6s, which are used to train A-5 pilots and to keep them current. All of them fly with 21 Sqn at Zahurul Haque at Chittagong, having been relocated there from Kurmitola.
In 1978 and 1982, Myanmar allegedly forced ethnic minority Muslim Rohingya refugees into Bangladesh and there is concern history could repeat itself.
*Fighter Force*
With the huge responsibility of defending its air space, the Bangladesh Air Force has built up a strong fighter force, and like many air forces that need a cost-effective solution to defending a nation’s sovereignty, has found China a good source of aircraft inventory, although there is a sprinkling of types from the USA, Russia and the Czech Republic. China has been a regular source for fighters since the late-1970s when the BAF acquired several Shenyang FT-5s (two seat MiG-17 trainers) and FT-6s (two seat MiG-19s). The FT-5s have now gone but the FT-6s soldier on. During the 1980s, Pakistan donated around 20 Shenyang F-6s, however most of these were destroyed during the terrible cyclone that hit BAF Base Zahurul Haque at Chittagong in 1991.
They may have been rendered useless by the effects of corrosion, but many of them have been preserved at BAF facilities all over the country.



A young pilot departs the runway in a PT-6 with his instructor sitting in the back. There are two primary flying training courses a year, comprising around eight students.
In the late-1980s 16 A-5IIIs were delivered to 21 Squadron at Kurmitola to fulfil the ground attack/close air support role and are still operational today alongside the dual-seat FT-6s, which are used to train A-5 pilots and keep them proficient. Both aircraft types now fly out of Chittagong in southern Bangladesh, not far from the Myanmar border. Despite their age and creeping obsolescence the BAF is putting them through a life extension programme that will enable them to fly for another ten years. BAF technicians and Chinese specialists have already carried out this work on three FT-6s at Chittagong, and attention has now been switched to three A-5s and another four FT-6s.
Kurmitola Air Base, inside Dhaka’s sprawling military cantonment, is the BAF’s showcase facility, where the majority of its fighters are based, tucked away behind the trees at Dhaka’s Zia International Airport. It has been home to a squadron of Chengdu F-7MB/FT-7Bs (Chinese-built MiG-21s) since December 1989, when the supersonic air defence fighters were delivered to 35 ‘Thundercats’ Sqn. Gp Capt Mafidur Rahman, the current Officer Commanding (OC) of the Flying Wing at Kurmitola, was a young pilot with 5 ‘Supersonics’ Sqn, flying MiG-21MFs, when he was posted to Chengdu in 1989 to train on the new fighter. He was one of the 16 pioneers, led by Wg Cdr Mirza Akter Maruf, who were trained to fly the F-7BG and who subsequently ferried the aircraft to Kurmitola. They eventually went on to form the nucleus of a new unit, 35 Sqn, when it officially stood up on March 28, 1990.



No 15 Sqn at Matiur Rahman has 12 side-by-side T-37Bs, although there are less than a handful flying at any one time. While they are used for basic flying training, the T-37Bs also fulfil a multi-engine training role for pilots progressing to transport aircraft. Both courses will see students flying 45 hours, although they differ considerably. The aircraft still fly in their former USAF Air Education Training Command (AETC) colours.
At the time, the multi-role F-7MB, equipped with two PL-7 air-to-air missiles and an arsenal of rockets and bombs, was the most modern fighter serving the BAF. Only one year later, the BAF retired the MiG-21MFs, which meant that 5 Sqn no longer had their own aircraft, and so the F-7MBs were pooled between 35 and 5 Sqn. In 1999, the BAF acquired six single-seat MiG-29 Fulcrum-As and two Fulcrum-Bs from Russia for a reputed $115 million. Ten Bangladeshi pilots and 70 technicians travelled to Krasnador in southern Russia for four months to train on the aircraft. The MiG-29s are equipped with the N019M Slot Back air interdiction radar, an IRST (Infra Red Search while Track) sensor and a Helmet Mounted Sighting system that interfaces with the R-60 (NATO name: AA-8 Aphid) and R-73 (AA-11 Archer) air-to-air missiles. The MiG-29s also have tactical air support, close air support and recce roles, and work regularly with the Army and Navy.



Since the MiG-29s have been delivered to 8 Sqn, there have been ten terms of command, with Wg Cdr Hasan Mahmood Khan taking on the role as OC no less than three times in that ten-year period. Today Wg Cdr Khair ul Afsar is the OC, having taken over in May 2008. There had been much speculation that the MiG-29s are grounded and for sale, but according to the current OC that is not true. While there has been an investigation into alleged corruption by a senior politician at the time of the MiG-29 acquisition in 1999, the BAF has always been happy with the primary air defender. Talks are currently underway to send four MiG-29s abroad, where work will be done jointly by BAF technicians and a foreign overhaul factory. This is part of the transfer of knowledge policy now being adopted, so that work on the other four aircraft can be done in country.
In 1999, when the BAF COAS was then working as OC Flying Wing at an operational base, he visited Zhuhai Air Show in China, where the double-delta winged F-7MG was being marketed. Subsequent studies of the aircraft took place over a six-year period, and the Government opted to purchase 12 F-7BGs and four FT-7BGs (B denoting Bangladesh) for the BAF in 2005.



No 9 Sqn at Tejgaon is the only BAF squadron dedicated to operating Bell 212s. In recent years they have been used for UN ops in Kuwait and East Timor, although they are all currently being used for domestic purposes.

The L-39ZAs are used for lead-in fighter training. After successfully completing their basic flying training at the BAF Academy, Jessore, students destined for fighters will go on to 25 Sqn to fly the L-39ZAs. An instructor pilot, Sqn Ldr Mahfuz stands alongside one of the students during a ground attack phase of the course.
A couple of pilots, including Gp Capt Mafidur Rahman, who had served as OC 5 Sqn three times, were sent to Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) in 2005 to evaluate the aircraft and check out the specifications, before the Government signed a formal contract later that year. In 1997, the Pakistan Air Force had also sent two pilots to Chengdu (see Pakistan’s New Fighters, October 2003, p42-49) for an evaluation of the aircraft, followed in 2001 by several PAF pilots that trained on the jets. It was not surprising then that CAC’s Chinese cooks knew how to cook a great spicy curry – much to Gp Capt Mafidur’s delight!
On April 4, 2006, the F-7BGs were formally inducted into the BAF to serve 5 Sqn, under the leadership of Wg Cdr Qazi Mazharul Karim. According to the BAF, these ‘all-weather multi-role advanced supersonic aircraft have an improved air combat manoeuvrability (when compared to the earlier F-7MB) and a longer endurance with a stronger air-to-air and air-to-ground capability’. The F-7BG is equipped with a Chinese SY-80 radar, copied from Italy’s FIAR Grifo, to provide the aircraft with its main sensor and is highly rated for its versatility.



At least four L-39ZAs were upgraded in Romania by Aerostar during 2003/04 and this is probably the reason why this example carries a civil registration as well as a military serial.
Two weeks before their official entry into service, the BAF signed a contract with PAC Kamra on March 19, 2006, that allows the procurement, repair and overhaul of spare parts for their fleet of F-7, A-5III and FT-6s.
*Flying Training*
Defending the nation is one of the top priorities of many young Bangladeshi men and women and if they have the necessary qualifications, they can enter the BAF Academy at Mathiur Rahman Air Base in Jessore. The facility is situated in the southwest of the country about 18 miles (30 kms) from the Indian border.
Wg Cdr Mazhar was the OC for Flying Training Wing at Matiur Rahman during my visit. He is a veteran F-7MB/BG fighter pilot who has served as an instructor at the Flying Academy and the advanced jet training squadron/25 Sqn, so he has a great pedigree. The base is usually very busy with T-37s, PT-6s and Bell 206s taking off, landing or flying in the circuit, however, the area is often susceptible to mist during the winter, as it was during the author’s visit, so instead of flying early the OC FTW delayed it until around 10-11am and continued non stop until 3pm.

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## fatman17

When the Officer Cadets come here, they spend the first year studying for a science engineering BSc as well as carrying out their officer training. In the second year, trainee pilots will report to 11 Sqn to fly the Nanchang PT-6 (a Chinese Yak-18). More than 40 of these Chinese radial engine trainers have been delivered to the BAF since 1977, providing the BAF with an affordable and effective solution to their flying training requirements. The Instructors will spend 120 hours teaching the cadet how to fly a military aircraft – starting from the aircraft’s ground handling characteristics right up to formation flying.
If the cadet convinces his instructors he can do this safely, he will progress to a second year of flying. Failure will mean a ground-based trade awaits him – perhaps as an engineer, or in air traffic control, education or administration.
The grades he gains during his primary flying training dictate his next career move: fighters, transports or helicopters. Generally, the top students of the course will go to fighters and they will be posted to the Basic Flying Training phase with 15 Sqn and their Cessna T-37Bs. The BAF acquired 12 T-37Bs from the USAF in 1997, to replace the CM-170R Magisters that now reside in excellent condition on the edge of the 15 Sqn ramp. A handful of ‘Tweetys’, as the T-37Bs are called, remain operational, although all 12 are still with the BAF. Students spend 35 hours spanning five months flying the T-37B. If they fail the course, they will be offered an alternative career flying transports or helicopters. Upon the successful completion of their basic flying training, the world of flying real fighters fast approaches and the next step is a move to 25 Sqn at BAF Base Zahurul Haque, Chittagong. This is where the advanced jet training is carried out with one of the eight L-39ZAs supplied in the mid-1980s. During 2003, four L-39ZAs were sent to Aerostar based at Bacau, Romania, for overhaul and a limited upgrade that included the installation of a new US gun-sight.

Two new Ulan Ude Mi-17-1Vs joined the 101 Special Flying Unit at Tejgaon in 2006 and are used to fly VVIPs.
Any pilots deemed unsuitable for fighters but good enough to fly transport aircraft will still fly the T-37 after the PT-6. It is quite unusual to fly a jet trainer while learning how to become a transport pilot, but a lack of any suitable twin-engined propeller aircraft in the BAF inventory means that there is no alternative solution. These pilots will fly 45 hours in the T-37 without any tactical or formation flying on the course. Once transport training is completed, the pilot will usually be posted to 3 Sqn at Chittagong, flying An-32s.
After completing the primary flying training course flying PT-6s, those pilots selected for the helicopter stream will move to 18 Sqn and the US-built Bell 206Ls. They may have been acquired back in the 1970s, but the four Bells remain a good platform to learn the basics of flying helicopters. Like all the other courses, pilots will go through a ground school before progressing on to a 45-hour course, which lasts six months. A successful conclusion to helicopter training, will see the pilot progress to Bell 212s or Mi-17s.

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## fatman17

*Helicopter Ops*
Not too surprisingly, given the nature of its regular humanitarian relief work and and air logistics support to the Army in the hilly districts of Chittagong, helicopters play a major part in the BAF’s day-to-day requirements. There are three operational helicopter units flying from two air bases: at Tejgaon: 31 ‘Apollo’ Sqn flies Russian-built Mi-17/171 Hips and 9 ‘Scorpions’ Sqn operates Bell 212s, while in the south of the country at Chittagong, 1 ‘Cobras’ Sqn fly a mix of Bell 212s and Mi-17/171s.
Around ten Bell 212s were delivered to 9 Sqn during 1976-77 for low-medium lift transport, which until that time was being fulfilled by former Indian Air Force Alouette IIIs and ex-Royal Navy Wessex HU.5s that had been operating with the unit since it was formed in 1975 by Air Cdr Erfanuddin.

Since joining the BAF in 2001, its four ex-USAF C-130Bs have been kept busy with the 101 Special Flying Unit. Over the past three years, the BAF has sent three of their four C-130Bs overseas for maintenance and two have gone as far as Chile to receive attention, but the fourth aircraft will be overhauled in Bangladesh.
Lightweight and with a capability of carrying up to 2,200 lbs, the Bell 212s have proved their worth over the past 30 years in many relief flights that have rescued thousands of civilians during the regular monsoon rains that sweep in off the Bay of Bengal between June and October. However, their work is not confined to the country’s domestic needs. Two Bell 212s were deployed to Kuwait and East Timor on UN Missions (see later) for several years, and during the tsunami in late-2005, a pair of Bell 212s was sent to the Maldives and Sri Lanka to help with the relief effort there for around 20 days. Since the decline in militant operations along the Chittagong Hill Tracts, the air logistics support role of the Bell 212 has diminished, although they are regularly used for disaster relief operations, both at home and abroad.

Helicopter pilots leaving the Flying Academy at Jessore will go to Tejgaon to fly either of two helicopters – Bell 212 or Mi-17. Wg Cdr Sohal Latif, OC 1 Sqn based at Chittagong, is a Mi-17 and a Bell 212 pilot. I met him at Tejgaon, along with his Academy course colleague Wg Cdr Mahmudun Nabi, the OC of 9 Sqn, who flies Bell 212s today, although he is also an Mi-17 pilot. After graduating from the Academy in 1987, they went their own ways, Sohel to Bell 212s and Nabi to Mi-8s that had been operational since 1983. When the Mi-17s were introduced in 1991 he started flying them too until the Mi-8s were eventually retired in 1995. Both pilots served on UN helicopter deployments and enjoyed their overseas operational commitments because it brought them into completely different environments – culturally and at work.
Over the years, the BAF Mi-17 force has increased substantially in size and there are now around 20 Hips of different variants (Mi-17, Mi-171, Mi-171Sh and Mi-17-1V) in service. It is not surprising that the BAF, like so many other other air forces, has looked to this relatively cheap heavyweight helicopter to fulfil many of its transport, troop carrying and special role requirements. Its robustness, as well as the ability of lifting some 6,600 lbs (3,000kg) of cargo, means it can carry four times more than the Bell 212.
The BAF purchased its first armed Mi-171Sh on March 21, 2007. During the procurement process, 30 officers and airmen were trained in this new armed role, giving the BAF a combat support capability as well as its more established logistical role. The helicopter was flown to the Rasulpur firing range where it carried out several armament missions. Subsequent work on further Mi-171s is now complete and the BAF is currently training helicopter crews and Special Forces personnel in the Combat Search and Rescue role.
As well as the three operational helicopter squadrons, there is the 101 Special Flying Unit, formed in 2001 to fly VVIPs in its two modified Mi-17-1Vs, which have been acquired over the past couple of years. Most of the unit’s pilots must be highly experienced, with Category A (VVIP) or B (VIP) qualifications although there are several Category C pilots who put the helicopters through ground runs or test-flights.
*UN Air Ops*
Despite the needs of its own country, the BAF plays an active part in United Nations peacekeeping operations. In fact Bangladesh could be said to put several western countries to shame with its regular contributions to the UN. The BAF deployments are known as (BANAIR – Bangladesh Air) and started in 1995, when seventeen 9 Sqn personnel along with one Bell 212 were deployed to Camp Khor in Kuwait (BANAIR-1). The BAF flew over 20,000 hours without a major mishap in the eight years it was there.
The BAF acknowledge the great experience they gain on such deployments. One pilot told me “It was great being there able to support the people – you felt you were really doing something. My job was to fly UN observers ensuring that the No Fly Zone was enforced, as well as ferrying UN personnel along the De-Militarized Zone (DMZ) between Iraq and Kuwait. We also fulfilled a Casevac (Casualty Evacuation) and Medevac (Medical Evacuation) role whenever needed.”
So appreciative was the UN with the BAF’s efforts that it extended the BANAIR-1 mission until the UN pulled out on March 20, 2003, following the US and its allied coalition attacked Iraq.
Within six months of BANAIR-1 ending, the BAF had set up BANAIR-2, an aviation unit
and airfield support unit (ASU) detachment at Bunia in north-west Congo as part of MONUC (United Nations Mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo). The Bangladesh Government also committed 1,300 of its soldiers to this UN Peacekeeping mission in August 2004 and to date the BAF has flown 12,000 hours in the six years they have been at Bunia.
Five Mi-17s deployed from 31 Sqn at Tejgaon are responsible for providing air support to UN troops in the area of their responsibility. Due to the poor road network in the Congo, the Mi-17s main priority is transporting UN troops around the country. BAF Hips regularly fly Pakistani Army troops around the UN’s area of responsibility, with air cover being provided by Indian Air Force Mi-25 Hinds.
It is a unique operation, in which Pakistani and Indian personnel forget their political differences and work together. There have been several incidents where Indian Air Force Mi-25 gunships have saved many Pakistani lives. The BANAIR mission, with its five Mi-17s, continues in the Democratic Republic of Congo today, although six years on it is known as BANAIR-6.
Another UN operation that saw a BAF helicopter commitment, was UNMISET (UN Mission in East Timor). From October 25, 2003 until June 7, 2005, BANAIR-1 was based in East Timor, with a pair of Bell 212s, to transport UN troops keeping the peace and supervising East Timor’s transition from being part of the Indonesia archipelago to independence.
Bangladesh has deployed over 8,000 UN peacekeepers to 12 different countries.
*Transports*
Four long range C-130B Hercules acquired from US stocks in 2001 and three short-haul An-32s that joined the inventory in 1989 currently fulfil the BAF’s air transport needs. With the domestic road and train networks being relatively slow, they are valuable assets, particularly for transporting troops and helping out with any humanitarian relief work. The An-32’s robustness and short take-off capabilities are ideal for the latter.

No.3 Sqn at Chittagong flies the An-32s, which are the real workhorses of the BAF’s transport fleet. Testimony to this is a visit to the Czech Republic in November 2007. The An-32 left Jessore on November 17 for a four-day flight that routed through Delhi (India), Karachi (Pakistan – night stopped), Dubai (UAE), King Khalid (Saudi Arabia), Amman (Jordan – night stopped), Ankara (Turkey), Istanbul (Turkey – night stopped), Budapest (Hungary) and finally Kunovice (Czech Republic). Though it was a long haul, it provided the aircrew with an opportunity to fly on international routes, which some had never experienced before. On November 25, the aircraft left the Czech Republic and returned to Bangladesh on November 28. Like the An-32s in India, the BAF examples have a limited bombing capability and often practice their skills in case of war.
Although the C-130Bs may be among the oldest Hercules now flying, three have been through recent overhauls, possibly their first since they were delivered. Work on one was carried out by AIROD in Malaysia, but two went on an epic journey to ENAER in Chile, where they stayed for a year at a time. Another C-130B has been grounded for a while, but work on this aircraft is to be carried out in Bangladesh. The BAF hopes that it can work in partnership with a foreign company that specialises in overhauling C-130s in Bangladesh and that it will transfer their technological know-how in a bid to stop the flow of much needed foreign currency out of the country as well as keeping the work here.
There have been several instances when the BAF has asked foreign companies to carry out repair work, for example on a runway barrier and a high-g chamber, but the costs were prohibitive. Instead, local people who had specialist skills found solutions and did not charge a penny – preferring to ‘do their bit’ for the country.
*Self Sufficiency*
During my travels I heard of many cases of the BAF’s ingenuity. In 2006 there was a need for a second radio transmitter for emergency purposes to be installed in their fleet of Mi-17s. Rather than spend much needed foreign currency on procuring the systems from abroad, BAF engineers looked to overcome the problem themselves. With several retired CM-170 Magisters in store, the BAF elected to take the Collins radio out of one of them and install it in a Mi-17 along with other pieces of kit and harnessing. The radio worked well in the air and on the ground, in fact the BAF believe it works better than the original radio system supplied with the aircraft! As a result all the Mi-17s have been fitted with the Magisters’ Collins radio.

You probably could not get anymore in this Mi-17 Hip! The helicopter is seen being loaded with food stuffs, medical supplies and blankets during another humanitarian relief effort - of which there are many in Bangladesh, mainly due to the flooding. BAF
Another example of the engineer’s fine work came after the F-7BGs had been delivered in 2006. Although the new Chinese fighters had been delivered with the Chinese TK-11 helmet, the BAF pilots preferred the US made HGU-55/P. When a Chinese specialist was requested to carry out the necessary modification to the unserviceable
HGU-55, the BAF were told it was not possible, because of a lack of any proper interface between the radio and the helmet. Undeterred, BAF engineers then studied both items along with their circuit boards and found that if the earphone connection of the US helmet could be modified and the earphone and microphone replaced, then the systems would work. The work was carried out and all F-7BG pilots are flying with their much preferred but modified helmet, which until then had been unserviceable.
Air Marshal Ziaur Rahman wants BAF personnel to be multi-skilled because he believes that the BAF needs around 17,000 serving personnel, but if they can multi-task then 11,000 could be sufficient. Some BAF officers, around 10-12 (although not pilots), are deputised into the Rapid Action Battalion (RAB), although this is only for a limited period (maximum two years), so that their careers are not affected. Under a government mandate, 60% of RAB personnel come from the police, with the remaining 40% are taken from the Armed Forces (Air Force, Army and Navy).
Despite all the odds, BAF personnel have overcome the hardships of running an air force on a tight budget. All the people I met were passionate about their country – which serves the BAF well – from the COAS, who in 1971 fought as a freedom fighter, right down to the lowest ranking NCO. Such emotions are often hard to find in an age in which money means everything.
AFD

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## PlanetSoldier

@fatman17 Currently total BAF members are more than 25000.


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## bigbossman



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## bigbossman



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## bigbossman




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## bigbossman



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## Anubis

Apparently they are going to replace the tweets with K8s!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Anubis said:


> Apparently they are going to replace the tweets with K8s!



Any reliable sources dude?


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## Invincible_at_Sea

*
Old BAF uniform. Image dated - 1983 
*

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## Anubis

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Any reliable sources dude?



BDmilitary.com is almost sure about it....but don't have any international report about it!

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## Varunastra

Any new developments guys??? what happened to the Su-27 procurement plan?


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## Akib Rubaiyat

Is there any reliable source link to the news of the purchasing of 8 new Hongdu JL-8s? 


UDAYCAMPUS said:


> Any new developments guys??? what happened to the Su-27 procurement plan?



From what I have heard from some Air Force personnels recently- the plans to procure Su-27 right now is out of the question. Government wants to buy a more modern series of aircraft such as the Su-30. But due to not being able to finance it now, they are looking into other alternatives such as the as J-10 or other Chinese aircrafts. China has shown interest in providing loan if Bangladesh does go for purchasing new Chinese fighters.

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## bigbossman



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## bigbossman



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## Zabaniyah

UDAYCAMPUS said:


> Any new developments guys??? what happened to the Su-27 procurement plan?



The deal is (un)officially dead

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

its 9 aircraft, not 8 that are being bought from China.... the PM herself said that.... but not sure whether its K-8 or not... but more possibility is for K-8...
Be vigilant to protect constitution



Akib Rubaiyat said:


> Is there any reliable source link to the news of the purchasing of 8 new Hongdu JL-8s?


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## Ishraq

As far as i read from different sites all through these years BA has 300000 active troops and 50000 reserved troops


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## Ishraq

can someone pleas tell me the list of aircrafts and the number of them we have in the bangladesh air force pls,anyone :\


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## M.H.J.

Bangladesh Air Force ,,, TV-commercial ...






MashaAllah ...
I'm glad they didn't show the A-5's , T-37 or L-39s in the video .
&
It would have been more amazing if the aircrafts were "YAK-130, J-10 or SU-30 along with our these MiG-29 ,,, some Mi-35 attack-helos would be the great & Some mid-range SAM" too ... ( In my dreams ! )

But , Its good they are making progress, slowly but going forward ...
Something is better than nothing ...
Alhamdulillah ... 



- MHJ ...

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

this advertisement is brilliant!!


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## Zabaniyah

A very well made advertisement for a limited air force like BAF. 

Well done 



Ishraq said:


> can someone pleas tell me the list of aircrafts and the number of them we have in the bangladesh air force pls,anyone :\



List of aircraft of the Bangladesh Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



M.H.J. said:


> Bangladesh Air Force ,,, TV-commercial ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MashaAllah ...
> I'm glad they didn't show the A-5's , T-37 or L-39s in the video .
> &
> It would have been more amazing if the aircrafts were "YAK-130, J-10 or SU-30 along with our these MiG-29 ,,, some Mi-35 attack-helos would be the great & Some mid-range SAM" too ... ( In my dreams ! )
> 
> But , Its good they are making progress, slowly but going forward ...
> Something is better than nothing ...
> Alhamdulillah ...
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...



They can buy those actually. We have the money. But there is a lack of commitment from the top levels.

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## pheonix



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## Luftwaffe

Akib Rubaiyat said:


> Is there any reliable source link to the news of the purchasing of 8 new Hongdu JL-8s?
> 
> From what I have heard from some Air Force personnels recently- the plans to procure Su-27 right now is out of the question. Government wants to buy a more modern series of aircraft such as the Su-30. But due to not being able to finance it now, they are looking into other alternatives such as the as J-10 or other Chinese aircrafts. China has shown interest in providing loan if Bangladesh does go for purchasing new Chinese fighters.


 
J-10A/B not available/ready for exports, JH-7A has no use for BAF not an air superiority aircraft.

What happened to YAK-130 deal, yak was suppose to replace T-37, L-39...


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## Luftwaffe

Ishraq said:


> can someone pleas tell me the list of aircrafts and the number of them we have in the bangladesh air force pls,anyone :\


 
@Ishraq

Mig-29 Fulcrum A [8]
A-5 Fantan [9-10]
FT-7BG [4]
F-7MB/BG/BGI 40? [MB variant shall be replaced soon]
L-39 [7]
T-37 [12]
FT-6 [6]
PT-6 [20-24]
C-130B+Es soon will be upgraded to H most likely. [4+4 soon]
AN-32 [2-3]

Rest google it.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Rosoboronexport team left BD in September after negotiations..... but haven't heard of anything concrete regarding the $1bn deal since then..... anyone has any update?


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## raihan_startech

Here are no Attractive Pic. or Discussion about Bangladesh Air force........

I try to here Following Give the over view of Bangladesh Air Force ......

_The *Bangladesh Air Force* (*BAF*, Bengali: _বাংলাদেশবিমানবাহিনী_, Bānglādēśh Bimān Bāhinī) is the aerial warfare arm of the Bangladesh Armed Forces. Being the first line of defence of Bangladesh, the air force revealed their long-term advancement and procurement plan in Defence IQ 2011 International Fighter Aircraft Conference in London. The Bangladesh Air Force currently employs more than 30,000 personnel including 1500+ pilots and navigators._

Bangladesh Air Force Base..............

* 
1)BAF Base Bashar at Dhaka
Near Old Airport, Dhaka

2)BAF Base Kurmitola at Dhaka
Near Hazrat Shahjalal International Airport, Dhaka

3)BAF Base Birsrestho Matiur Rahmn at Jessore
Near Jessore Airport, Jessore

4)BAF Base Zahurul Haque at Chittagong
Near Hazrat Shah Amanat International Airport, Chittagong

5)BAF Base Paharkanchanpur at Tangail
Near Tangail District City

6)BAF Base Cox's Bazar at Coxe's Bazar
Near Cox's Bazar Airport

BAF Radar Unit, Bogra

9)BAF Radar Unit, Moulvibazar

10)BAF Care & Maintenance Unit, Shamshernagor, Moulvibazar

11)BAF Care & Maintenance Unit, Lalmonirhat

12)BAF Recruit's Training School, Shamshernagor, Moulvibazar

13)41 Squadron, Nayanpur, Gazipur

14)203 Maintenance Unit, Rajendrapur, Gazipur*


*Bangladesh Air Force is organized into Bases, Wings, Flying Squadrons, Radar Squadrons, Training Institutes and maintenance & support units/squadrons. Overall command and control of BAF lies with Air Headquarters. Air Headquarters provide the policy guideline. Bases are the executing formations. Bases are comprised of no of Wings. The Wings are formed with several number of Squadrons.

ORGANOGRAM OF BANGLADESH AIR FORCE

Air HQ




Bases




Wing




Squadron




Flight*


Bangladesh Air Force Fighter


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## raihan_startech

The HongQi 64 (HQ-64) surface-to-air missile (SAM) was developed in the 1990s by the Shanghai Academy of Space Flight Technology, based on the Italian Alenia Aspide missile technology. The missile is available in both land- and ship-based versions, and has been promoted to the export market under the designation LieYing 60 (LY-60). The missile was previously thought to be for export only, but recent Internet-source photos confirmed that the missile is now in service with the SAM troops of the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) for short- to medium-range air defence role
Programme
The Aspide was derived from the U.S. AIM-7 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM), but with a monopulse seeker replacing the conic scan seeker for improved accuracy and better resistance to jamming. The Aspide emulated the United States’ practice with the Sparrow to have evolved from an air-to-air missile into a multi-purpose missile that can be launched from land-, ship- and aerial-platforms.
China obtained a small number of the Italian Alenia Aspide missile in the 1980s, and later signed an agreement to co-produce the missile under license. However, due to the arms embargo imposed by the E.U. in 1989, the co-production of the Aspide missile was cancelled. However, Chinese engineers used the Aspide technology to develop an indigenous model with similar performance. The air-to-air version of the missile was later commissioned under the designation PL-11, while the surface-to-air version of the missile became the HongQi 64/LY-60.
Design
The HongQi 64 was designed to engage low-/medium-altitude fast jet targets, low-flying helicopters, and sea-skimming anti-ship missiles. The missile is guided by the radio command with artificial interference capability. It was claimed to be the only medium-low-altitude air defence missile in the world that uses microprocessor intelligent module technology.
The surveillance radar detects the target aircraft and then hands it over to the appropriate tracking/illumination radar unit for the engagement. The system continuous wave semi-active homing guidance principles, and, with the allocated assets, the battery can process up to 40 targets, track 12 and engage three of them simultaneously. The use of the moving target tracking processing system and frequency agility technology also gives the system good anti-jamming capability. System reaction time is 9 seconds.
Deployment
A typical land-based HongQi 64 battery fire unit comprises one 4X4 truck-mounted surveillance radar, three 4X4 truck-mounted tracking/illumination radars, one emergency power supply vehicle, and six 6X6 truck-mounted transporter-launcher platforms. Each of the launch platform has five ready to launch missiles in individual sealed containers.
The fire unit is complemented by a technical support unit which comprises a transport and reloading vehicle, a test vehicle, an electronic maintenance vehicle, an electromechanical maintenance vehicle, a tools support vehicle, a spares and meter vehicle, and a power supply vehicle.
Specifications
*Missile dimensions:* Length 3.89m; Diameter 0.208m; Wingspan 0.68m
*Launch weight:* 220kg
*Propulsion:* Single-stage solid rocket
*Operating altitude:* 0.03~12Km
*Operating range:* 1~18km
*Maximum speed:* Mach 4.0
*Guidance:* Semi-active radar
*Warhead:* HE, prefabricated steel ball fragmentation type
*System reaction time:* 9 sec
*Single shot hit probability:* 60~80%
*Status *:Bangladesh will use it as Medium Range for limited aerial defence.The deal is not yet signed


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## BDforever

BAF's Mig-21's and it's pilots
(Notice the G-suit's of the time, it was kinda bulky as these birds flew at very high altitudes so to maintain pressure and oxygen supply these helmet's were made.) ----- collected.

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## monitor

*According to a prominent Indian defence blog Bangladesh’s air force is close to ordering from South Korea the Cheongung (Iron Hawk) MR-SAM, co-developed by a consortium of entities that included Russia’s Almaz Design Bureau, the ADD, LIG Nex1, Samsung-THALES and Doosan DST, was developed within a five-year period and entered the series-production phase last year. In Russia, the Cheongung will soon be produced as the S-350E Vityaz.*

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## BDforever

monitor said:


> *According to a prominent Indian defence blog Bangladesh’s air force is close to ordering from South Korea the Cheongung (Iron Hawk) MR-SAM, co-developed by a consortium of entities that included Russia’s Almaz Design Bureau, the ADD, LIG Nex1, Samsung-THALES and Doosan DST, was developed within a five-year period and entered the series-production phase last year. In Russia, the Cheongung will soon be produced as the S-350E Vityaz.*


and how they know it ?


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## BDforever

The Royal Air Force, UK, has trained Bangladesh Air Force fighter pilots in Dhaka.

According to an Inter Service Public Relations (ISPR) media release, 21 pilots took part in a 5-day training programme under the Qualified Weapon Instructors Course.

It says the course was aimed at developing tactical weapon system experts for the air force to meet the operational requirements of the force modernisation programme Forces Goal 2030.

The training had begun on Jan 12.

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## ejaz007

*Bangladesh Buys Russian Combat Training Jets Worth $800M*

MOSCOW, January 28 (RIA Novosti) – Bangladesh ordered 24 Russian Yak-130 light fighter jets worth $800 million in the final quarter of last year, a Russian newspaper reported Tuesday.

The deal was paid for with a loan extended by Moscow to the country a year ago, the director of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said in a separate interview published by Kommersant on Monday, without disclosing the deal’s price tag.

The newspaper said Tuesday that the sale was worth $800 million, citing unnamed sources in the defense industry. The planes are to be fitted with English-language cockpits and delivery is scheduled to begin next year.

The Yak-130 is a lightweight subsonic trainer aircraft designed to mimic the cockpit and handling capabilities of Russia’s more advanced fighters.




© RIA Novosti.
Pilot training aircraft Yak-130

The plane can also be configured to carry a small payload of ground attack and air-to-air weapons.

Russia has targeted South Asia as a growth market for arms exports. The country delivered a refitted aircraft carrier, the INS Vikramaditya, to India earlier this month and is in the process of supplying Vietnam with six advanced attack submarines.

Bangladesh Buys Russian Combat Training Jets Worth $800M | Defense | RIA Novosti

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## BDforever

ejaz007 said:


> *Bangladesh Buys Russian Combat Training Jets Worth $800M*
> 
> MOSCOW, January 28 (RIA Novosti) – Bangladesh ordered 24 Russian Yak-130 light fighter jets worth $800 million in the final quarter of last year, a Russian newspaper reported Tuesday.
> 
> The deal was paid for with a loan extended by Moscow to the country a year ago, the director of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said in a separate interview published by Kommersant on Monday, without disclosing the deal’s price tag.
> 
> The newspaper said Tuesday that the sale was worth $800 million, citing unnamed sources in the defense industry. The planes are to be fitted with English-language cockpits and delivery is scheduled to begin next year.
> 
> The Yak-130 is a lightweight subsonic trainer aircraft designed to mimic the cockpit and handling capabilities of Russia’s more advanced fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © RIA Novosti.
> Pilot training aircraft Yak-130
> 
> The plane can also be configured to carry a small payload of ground attack and air-to-air weapons.
> 
> Russia has targeted South Asia as a growth market for arms exports. The country delivered a refitted aircraft carrier, the INS Vikramaditya, to India earlier this month and is in the process of supplying Vietnam with six advanced attack submarines.
> 
> Bangladesh Buys Russian Combat Training Jets Worth $800M | Defense | RIA Novosti


good news , make it new thread bro  info might be wrong because it means it is about $33 million per training plane ! ! more than double of actual price ! !


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## Allah Akbar

BDforever said:


> good news , make it new thread bro  info might be wrong because it means it is about $33 million per training plane ! ! more than double of actual price ! !


 i think the price is 15 million real qoute. other moneys goes for the small amrs purchase . if these 24 yaks were purchased by 33 million each ,then surely hasina and her family theft a lot from it no doubt!


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## ejaz007

*Rosoboronexport To Deliver 24 Jet Trainers To Bangladesh*

*WARSAW* — Russia’s arms exporter Rosoboronexport has signed a contract for the sale of 24 Yakovlev Yak-130 jet trainers to Bangladesh’s Ministry of Defense, according to a late January 2014 report from Anatoly Isaikin, director general of Rosoboronexport.

Isaikin said that Bangladesh paid for the aircraft with a loan obtained from the Russian government, but did not disclose the amount of the deal. The contract is estimated to be worth about US $800 million, local daily Kommersant was told by a source close to the deal.

Deliveries of the aircraft are scheduled to begin in 2015. The jet trainers were fitted with an English-language cockpit.

In addition to the Bangaldesh deal, Russia will also acquire the jet trainers for its own armed forces. Under a current deal, the Russian Air Force is to receive 55 Yak-130s by 2015, of which 42 have already been delivered. Russian Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Viktor Bondarev was has reportedly said the Defense Ministry aims to place an order for a further batch of the jet trainers this year.

The two-seat subsonic Yak-130 was designed by Russian aircraft design and manufacturing company Yakovlev in cooperation with Italy’s Aermacchi, and it is manufactured by Irkutsk aviation plant. The jet trainer has a maximum speed of 1050 km/h (652 mph), a range of 2,000 kilometers (1,243 miles), and it achieves a maximum flight altitude of 12,500 meters (41,000 ft), according to data from Yakovlev.

Set up in 2000, Rosoboronexport is a subsidiary of Russia’s state-owned defense giant Rostec. The firm handles more than 80 percent of the country’s arms and military equipment exports and deals with over 70 countries.

*Email: jadamowski@defensenews.com.

Rosoboronexport To Deliver 24 Jet Trainers To Bangladesh | Defense News | defensenews.com*

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## jarves

Congratulations to Bagladesh!!!!


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## BDforever

*$800 million russian deal info:*

24 x Yak-130 = $410 m
2 x Gamma DE = $150 m
2 x Kasta 2E2 = $60 m
5 x Mi-17Sh = $90 m
8 x MiG-29 upgrade to SMT = $90 m

-----------------------------------------------------------

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

anyone has any info about the Chinese "JH-16" radar that BAF reportedly bought?..... I haven't found anything about this radar in the web....



BDforever said:


> *$800 million russian deal info:*
> 
> 24 x Yak-130 = $410 m
> *2 x Gamma DE = $150 m
> 2 x Kasta 2E2 = $60 m*
> 5 x Mi-17Sh = $90 m
> 8 x MiG-29 upgrade to SMT = $90 m
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------



I hope this is based on strong lead....


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## Luftwaffe

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> anyone has any info about the Chinese "JH-16" radar that BAF reportedly bought?..... I haven't found anything about this radar in the web....
> 
> I hope this is based on strong lead....


 
2 SLC-2 Radars in 2012.

SLC-2 Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

JH-16 3D AESA Air Surveillance Radar, is a long range, transportable, three-dimensional radar .

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Luftwaffe said:


> 2 SLC-2 Radars in 2012.
> 
> SLC-2 Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> JH-16 3D AESA Air Surveillance Radar, is a long range, transportable, three-dimensional radar .



SLC-2 is NOT an air defence radar.... its a fire-finder radar for the army field artillery...... BAF also got YLC-6C and 1L117M radars in recent times.... those are relatively older tech...... I was specifically looking for info on the "JH-16" radar.... "AESA" radar is a big thing..... its top notch tech for any air defence force, either ground-based or air-based.... its one of the hardest to jam..... China is still a novice at developing AESA radar...... Western analysts are very interested to know how far China has gone in AESA tech..... Gamma DE is an AESA radar.... and I'm glad that there is news of BAF acquiring a couple of those.....


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## Bamboo Castle

BDforever said:


> *$800 million russian deal info:*
> 
> 24 x Yak-130 = $410 m
> 2 x Gamma DE = $150 m
> 2 x Kasta 2E2 = $60 m
> 5 x Mi-17Sh = $90 m
> 8 x MiG-29 upgrade to SMT = $90 m
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------


Is this your idea of how they may have spent the $800mil or is fact? Do you have any reference to prove this??


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

anyone has any idea about the the progress of the $180 million deal for 4 C-130s and other stuff?


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## BDforever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> anyone has any idea about the the progress of the $180 million deal for 4 C-130s and other stuff?


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

BDforever said:


>


what?.... that deal is dead now? :O


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## BDforever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> what?.... that deal is dead now? :O


no info. 

edit: now i remember, the deal will be finished in 2017


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

BDforever said:


> no info.
> 
> edit: now i remember, the deal will be finished in 2017


wooow!!.... by the time the C-130s become great grandpa? :O


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## BDforever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> wooow!!.... by the time the C-130s become great grandpa? :O


as far i know it will get 100 years of service life LOL


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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> no info.
> 
> edit: now i remember, the deal will be finished in 2017



You mean completed.

BAF will be getting C-130s like-new and upgrade and other associates equipment for current C-130s as planned and DSCA request sent and most likely will be approved because of genuine reasons. It takes time, BAF is not india or singapore, like Pakistan you'll too get things a bit late. It's all waiting but 2016 at the most you'll get them.

New-Old Hercules Planes for Bangladesh

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Luftwaffe said:


> You mean completed.
> 
> BAF will be getting C-130s like-new and upgrade and other associates equipment for current C-130s as planned and DSCA request sent and most likely will be approved because of genuine reasons. It takes time, BAF is not india or singapore, like Pakistan you'll too get things a bit late. It's all waiting but 2016 at the most you'll get them.
> 
> New-Old Hercules Planes for Bangladesh



late is still good, as long as they arrive..... 
but sometimes don't..... I'm sure that Pakistan has had that experience quite a few times, isn't it?


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## BDforever

*BAF RL-5M (SSR) air surveillance radar, its made in Czech Republic and has a range of 200 Km*

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## british_bengali

*Russia to deliver 5 transport combat helicopters to Bangladesh 
KUALA-LUMPUR, April 15. /ITAR-TASS/. Russia and Bangladesh have concluded an agreement on delivery of five transport combat helicopters Mil Mi-171Sh to that country, director for special commissions and head of the delegation from Russian main arms exporting company Rosoboronexport Nikolay Dimidyuk said at the Defence Services Asia exhibition DSA-2014 in the Malaysian capital on Tuesday.

“We are holding a presentation of choppers Mi-171Sh for Malaysia today. We have recently signed a contract for delivery of five helicopter gunships of this model to Bangladesh,” he said.

According to Dimidyuk, "a lot of countries in the Asia-Pacific region" are interested in supplying Mi-171Sh, in particular, the representatives of Malaysia and Nepal.

The Mil Mi-171Sh is a Russian helicopter also known as the Mi-8M in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude. It is a medium twin-turbine transport helicopter.


*

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## BDforever

british_bengali said:


> *Russia to deliver 5 transport combat helicopters to Bangladesh
> KUALA-LUMPUR, April 15. /ITAR-TASS/. Russia and Bangladesh have concluded an agreement on delivery of five transport combat helicopters Mil Mi-171Sh to that country, director for special commissions and head of the delegation from Russian main arms exporting company Rosoboronexport Nikolay Dimidyuk said at the Defence Services Asia exhibition DSA-2014 in the Malaysian capital on Tuesday.
> 
> “We are holding a presentation of choppers Mi-171Sh for Malaysia today. We have recently signed a contract for delivery of five helicopter gunships of this model to Bangladesh,” he said.
> 
> According to Dimidyuk, "a lot of countries in the Asia-Pacific region" are interested in supplying Mi-171Sh, in particular, the representatives of Malaysia and Nepal.
> 
> The Mil Mi-171Sh is a Russian helicopter also known as the Mi-8M in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude. It is a medium twin-turbine transport helicopter.
> *


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## Black Eagle 90

british_bengali said:


> *Russia to deliver 5 transport combat helicopters to Bangladesh
> KUALA-LUMPUR, April 15. /ITAR-TASS/. Russia and Bangladesh have concluded an agreement on delivery of five transport combat helicopters Mil Mi-171Sh to that country, director for special commissions and head of the delegation from Russian main arms exporting company Rosoboronexport Nikolay Dimidyuk said at the Defence Services Asia exhibition DSA-2014 in the Malaysian capital on Tuesday.
> 
> “We are holding a presentation of choppers Mi-171Sh for Malaysia today. We have recently signed a contract for delivery of five helicopter gunships of this model to Bangladesh,” he said.
> 
> According to Dimidyuk, "a lot of countries in the Asia-Pacific region" are interested in supplying Mi-171Sh, in particular, the representatives of Malaysia and Nepal.
> 
> The Mil Mi-171Sh is a Russian helicopter also known as the Mi-8M in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude. It is a medium twin-turbine transport helicopter.
> *



BDs should recognize their needs and can make a deal with Chinese for Z-10 joining and assembling that helicopter locally.


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## BDforever

Black Eagle 90 said:


> BDs should recognize their needs and can make a deal with Chinese for Z-10 joining and assembling that helicopter locally.


can Z-10 transport troops ? no, we are not in position to buy dedicated attack helo. BD air forces knows well

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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> can Z-10 transport troops ? no, we are not in position to buy dedicated attack helo. BD air forces knows well



You are right I think at this point BD dont need Attack Helos, but in long term I think Z-19 would be an excellent choice if a new variant sort of AH-1Z type variant comes out with dual powerful engine and better Armor. On the cheap side Z-9 Attack variant would do limited job.

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## Bilal9

british_bengali said:


> *Russia to deliver 5 transport combat helicopters to Bangladesh
> KUALA-LUMPUR, April 15. /ITAR-TASS/. Russia and Bangladesh have concluded an agreement on delivery of five transport combat helicopters Mil Mi-171Sh to that country, director for special commissions and head of the delegation from Russian main arms exporting company Rosoboronexport Nikolay Dimidyuk said at the Defence Services Asia exhibition DSA-2014 in the Malaysian capital on Tuesday.
> 
> “We are holding a presentation of choppers Mi-171Sh for Malaysia today. We have recently signed a contract for delivery of five helicopter gunships of this model to Bangladesh,” he said.
> 
> According to Dimidyuk, "a lot of countries in the Asia-Pacific region" are interested in supplying Mi-171Sh, in particular, the representatives of Malaysia and Nepal.
> 
> The Mil Mi-171Sh is a Russian helicopter also known as the Mi-8M in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude. It is a medium twin-turbine transport helicopter.
> *



The definitive improved version now is the Mil Mi-38 (please google it for images) and is available in military versions with hard-points. It is identical in many respects to the Mi-171Sh as far as payload and undercarriage details. Which is no issue as the Mi-8 and Mi-171 birds have been as reliable as anvils.

The Mil Mi-38 has "glass cockpit" avionics, newer composite main rotor blades and way too many other aviation-related refinements to the plain vanilla Mi-171 to list. Power-plant choices are now either a pair of the local Klimov TV7 or Pratt & Whitney Canada PW127 turboshaft engine which have 2800 shp as output so max payload is a lot higher now (still officially rated at 30 fully-equipped para-commandos)

The older Mi-171Sh in use by Bangladesh Army Commandos I believe uses a pair of the older Klimov TV3 turboshaft with only 2100 shp each.


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## Black Eagle 90

But Z-10 is really a dedicated machines that can easily pose a threat to any enemy including INDIA which is buying Apache is good numbers.

BAF should buy 30 Z-10s along with a good deal of Pakistani UAVs and some 3 new Chinese AWE&Cs.


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## BDforever

Black Eagle 90 said:


> But Z-10 is really a dedicated machines that can easily pose a threat to any enemy including INDIA which is buying Apache is good numbers.
> 
> BAF should buy 30 Z-10s along with a good deal of Pakistani UAVs and some 3 new Chinese AWE&Cs.


1. no point of having dedicated helo when you lack in transport helo
2. what is the price of Z-10 ? around $35 million ? Mi171sh will cost $16million


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## Black Eagle 90

BDforever said:


> 1. no point of having dedicated helo when you lack in transport helo
> 2. what is the price of Z-10 ? around $35 million ? Mi171sh will cost $16million


May be not more than $7 Million.


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## BDforever

Bilal9 said:


> The definitive improved version now is the Mil Mi-38 (please google it for images) and is available in military versions with hard-points. It is identical in many respects to the Mi-171Sh as far as payload and undercarriage details. Which is no issue as the Mi-8 and Mi-171 birds have been as reliable as anvils.
> 
> The Mil Mi-38 has "glass cockpit" avionics, newer composite main rotor blades and way too many other aviation-related refinements to the plain vanilla Mi-171 to list. Power-plant choices are now either a pair of the local Klimov TV7 or Pratt & Whitney Canada PW127 turboshaft engine which have 2800 shp as output so max payload is a lot higher now (still officially rated at 30 fully-equipped para-commandos)
> 
> The older Mi-171Sh in use by Bangladesh Army Commandos I believe uses a pair of the older Klimov TV3 turboshaft with only 2100 shp each.


you left main point, Mi38 is not armed version, only transport



Black Eagle 90 said:


> May be not more than $7 Million.


 no its not  read details


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## Black Eagle 90

BDforever said:


> you left main point, Mi38 is not armed version, only transport
> 
> 
> no its not  read details


Why not get license to produce it in BD.


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## BDforever

Black Eagle 90 said:


> Why not get license to produce it in BD.


we do not have money for that beside Z-10 is new helo, china will not give TOT before its development cost come up from sale


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## Black Eagle 90

I am saying about producing new Mi-17s locally also some Kamov new helicopters only transport ones.

Kamov Ka-60 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Nike

Black Eagle 90 said:


> May be not more than $7 Million.



that's the price in 2005, i know it exactly because Indonesia Army buy them at those price of range. In 2014 with upgrading in avionic systems and safety systems, the price is up to 14 to 18 million US dollar regarding from the specification you want

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## Bamboo Castle

Does anyone have any idea of the type of Jet trainer BAF is getting from China?? I know they are getting 9 Jet trainers from china.


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## BDforever

Bamboo Castle said:


> Does anyone have any idea of the type of Jet trainer BAF is getting from China?? I know they are getting 9 Jet trainers from china.


k-8

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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> k-8



Nice, I didn't know that I thought only russian YAK-130/133 are ordered.

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## Bilal9

Luftwaffe said:


> Nice, I didn't know that I thought only russian YAK-130/133 are ordered.


 
No offense to what BDForever stated however I think it logically could be something other than K-8s because the Yak-130 already bought handily beats the K-8 at its role. The Yak-130/133s are subsonic trainer replacements for L-39ZOs (Czech) in use at this time. The BAF needs advanced supersonic trainers.

The new supersonic trainers will replace the F-7 advanced two-seat supersonic trainers in use now. For this supersonic trainer duty there are two Chinese contenders - Hongdu L-15 (Copy of Yak-130/Aermacchi M-346) and Guizhou JL-9 (or L-9, formerly known as FTC-2000). My best hunch is that its going to be the latter (JL-9) since the L-15 is too new right now. Although press reports do say that 12 of the L-15s have been sold right off the new production line to an undisclosed export buyer. The PLAAF has only bought four trial L-15s so far as well. But the JL-9 has been in use longer.

Here are pics of JL-9 and L-15s (three of each respectively).

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## Bamboo Castle

Bilal9 said:


> No offense to what BDForever stated however I think it logically could be something other than K-8s because the Yak-130 already bought handily beats the K-8 at its role. The Yak-130/133s are subsonic trainer replacements for L-39ZOs (Czech) in use at this time. The BAF needs advanced supersonic trainers.
> 
> The new supersonic trainers will replace the F-7 advanced two-seat supersonic trainers in use now. For this supersonic trainer duty there are two Chinese contenders - Hongdu L-15 (Copy of Yak-130/Aermacchi M-346) and Guizhou JL-9 (or L-9, formerly known as FTC-2000). My best hunch is that its going to be the latter (JL-9) since the L-15 is too new right now. Although press reports do say that 12 of the L-15s have been sold right off the new production line to an undisclosed export buyer. The PLAAF has only bought four trial L-15s so far as well. But the JL-9 has been in use longer.



Hongdu JL-8 sounds more suitable for the role the training jets are meant for. PM mentioned that, 9 units will be procured. I am guessing here that they will be bought to replace the 9 FT-6 in BAF inventory as the A-5C and FT-6 are scheduled to be retired before 2018. 


Guys: for your better knowledge I am posting the section bellow:

_PM said, her government has undertaken effective plans to build the air force capable of facing challenges of the 21st century. 

"We have already taken massive programmes for modernization as well as physical infrastructure development and implementation of welfare-oriented activities of the air force," she said. 

Sheikh Hasina said *16 fighter planes from China and three Mi- 171 helicopters were inducted in the air force in 2010-11 fiscal year*.

She said *one surface to air missile system, the first of its kind, was added to the air force in 2011*.

The Prime Minister said *the government has inked a deal with China to purchase nine jet trainer aircraft*. "The signing of agreement with Russia for *buying 24 advanced jet trainer aircraft and five Mi- 171 helicopters under the state credit is under process*," she said.

Sheikh Hasina said a process for procuring *two maritime search and rescue helicopters and basic transport trainer aircraft is underway*.

The Prime Minister said the government in *2010-11 and 2011- 12 fiscal years signed deals to buy four air defence radars for the air bases Paharkanchanpur, Beershreshtha Motiur Rahman and Moulvibazar as well as southeastern region and the special economic zones in the Bay of Bengal.*

She said the construction work of Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre at BAF Base Bangabandhu is at the final stage. Besides, she said, *proposals for establishing a number of new units for the air force is under process*.

Sheikh Hasina said the work setting up a *overhauling plant for F-7 fighter planes* is underway, while a tender for establishing a *overhauling plant for Mi series helicopters has been floated* in the light of the Forces Goal-2030. _
_
Source: Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha (BSS)_

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## Black Eagle 90

Bilal9 said:


> No offense to what BDForever stated however I think it logically could be something other than K-8s because the Yak-130 already bought handily beats the K-8 at its role. The Yak-130/133s are subsonic trainer replacements for L-39ZOs (Czech) in use at this time. The BAF needs advanced supersonic trainers.
> 
> The new supersonic trainers will replace the F-7 advanced two-seat supersonic trainers in use now. For this supersonic trainer duty there are two Chinese contenders - Hongdu L-15 (Copy of Yak-130/Aermacchi M-346) and Guizhou JL-9 (or L-9, formerly known as FTC-2000). My best hunch is that its going to be the latter (JL-9) since the L-15 is too new right now. Although press reports do say that 12 of the L-15s have been sold right off the new production line to an undisclosed export buyer. The PLAAF has only bought four trial L-15s so far as well. But the JL-9 has been in use longer.
> 
> Here are pics of JL-9 and L-15s (three of each respectively).



Then wait for the JF-17 Dual seat.

But K-8 and Super Mushak should be bought.


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## Bilal9

Black Eagle 90 said:


> Then wait for the JF-17 Dual seat.
> 
> But K-8 and Super Mushak should be bought.



Bangladesh already bought Yak-130 which bests the K-8 for subsonic Jet-trainer role.

There is no Super Mushhak-equivalent prop-trainer (basic trainer) standardized at BAF, other than the radial engined CJ-6. However old A-37/T-37 tweets and various other types of jet trainers are still soldiering on - taking up some of the slack.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladesh already bought Yak-130 which bests the K-8 for subsonic Jet-trainer role.
> 
> There is no Super Mushhak-equivalent prop-trainer (basic trainer) standardized at BAF, other than the radial engined CJ-6. However old A-37/T-37 tweets and various other types of jet trainers are still soldiering on - taking up some of the slack.


I think Yak-130 has another role to play in BAF......
and thats not ground attack..... a subsonic aircraft like that will get withered by AA guns over ground......
its maritime strike..... I think at least some of the 24 Yak-130s would be armed with anti-ship missiles..... I don't think we require 24 advanced jet trainers....
the Bay of Bengal is the biggest priority right now....


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> I think Yak-130 has another role to play in BAF......
> and thats not ground attack..... a subsonic aircraft like that will get withered by AA guns over ground......
> its maritime strike..... I think at least some of the 24 Yak-130s would be armed with anti-ship missiles..... I don't think we require 24 advanced jet trainers....
> the Bay of Bengal is the biggest priority right now....



The JF-17 can carry two C-802 maritime strike missiles a-la Exocet (I'm sure everyone remembers the role of the Exocet launched from a Super Etendard back in the Falklands conflict). Shades of another era -yet with striking similarities, i.e. belligerent junta govts. and refurbished military hardware...The C-802 is an exocet copy. The C-803 is a much improved variant of the Exocet and sort of an ugly cousin compared to the well-specified BrahMos.

I'm not fully convinced if the Yak 130 can carry even one C-802.


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## BDforever

Bilal9 said:


> The JF-17 can carry two C-802 maritime strike missiles a-la Exocet (I'm sure everyone remembers the role of the Exocet launched from a Super Etendard back in the Falklands conflict). Shades of another era -yet with striking similarities, i.e. belligerent junta govts. and refurbished military hardware...The C-802 is an exocet copy. The C-803 is a much improved variant of the Exocet and a ugly cousin compared to the well-specified BrahMos.
> 
> I'm not fully convinced if the Yak 130 can carry even one C-802.


i think you have mistaken, C802 missile have been improved over the period.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> The JF-17 can carry two C-802 maritime strike missiles a-la Exocet (I'm sure everyone remembers the role of the Exocet launched from a Super Etendard back in the Falklands conflict). Shades of another era -yet with striking similarities, i.e. belligerent junta govts. and refurbished military hardware...The C-802 is an exocet copy. The C-803 is a much improved variant of the Exocet and sort of an ugly cousin compared to the well-specified BrahMos.
> 
> I'm not fully convinced if the Yak 130 can carry even one C-802.


well, C-802 is a Chinese anti-ship missile..... Yak-130 is a Russian aircraft.... so, Yaks carrying Chinese weapons..... naah....
quite obviously the Yaks would carry Russian missiles.... it now needs to be seen what other stuff are shipped with the Yaks....
24 advanced trainers are too much to replace 9 L-39s......


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## BDforever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, C-802 is a Chinese anti-ship missile..... Yak-130 is a Russian aircraft.... so, Yaks carrying Chinese weapons..... naah....
> quite obviously the Yaks would carry Russian missiles.... it now needs to be seen what other stuff are shipped with the Yaks....
> 24 advanced trainers are too much to replace 9 L-39s......


Yak to replace A-5 and L-39 and K-8 for J-6

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

BDforever said:


> Yak to replace A-5 and L-39 and K-8 for J-6


yea, doesn't that mean that the Yaks are not just for training?
quite obviously they're for 21st and 25th Squadrons....

and most probably the K-8s will go to 15 Squadron, which used to operate the T-37s.....

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## BDforever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> yea, doesn't that mean that the Yaks are not just for training?
> quite obviously they're for 21st and 25th Squadrons....
> 
> and most probably the K-8s will go to 15 Squadron, which used to operate the T-37s.....


16 Yak-152 for T-37


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

BDforever said:


> 16 Yak-152 for *T-37*


you mean.... to replace the PT-6.....


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## BDforever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> you mean.... to replace the PT-6.....


oh yea , sorry  most likey CJ-7 is coming


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

BDforever said:


> oh yea , sorry


but that deal isn't official as yet as far as I know..... do you have a lead on that?
so far, only 24 Yak-130, 5 Mi-171Sh, 9 jet trainer (K-8), 2 maritime SAR helos and 3 transport trainers are official..... the PM uttered those herself....

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## Bilal9

I think we have to rule out air-launched or torpedo tube launched maritime strike for BAF or BN using C-802's or improved variants - specifically Chinese copies of Russian export Novator Alpha (3M54E KLUB/ NATO designation SS-N-27B) which is most appropriate for this role. The most improved YJ-8 model (C-802 export variant) is what Pentagon confirms as the Chinese designation CH-SS-NX-13, see here and here). Only Ming 035B is capable of launching latest YJ-8 variant as noted above, and not Ming 035G which Bangladesh is getting. Someone made sure of this. Of course Yuan, Song, late Ming classes are all capable of this, but not early Ming classes which Bangladesh is getting.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> I think we have to rule out air-launched or torpedo tube launched maritime strike for BAF or BN using C-802's or improved variants - specifically Chinese copies of Russian export Novator Alpha (3M54E KLUB/ NATO designation SS-N-27B) which is most appropriate for this role. The most improved YJ-8 model (C-802 export variant) is what Pentagon confirms as the Chinese designation CH-SS-NX-13, see here and here). Only Ming 035B is capable of launching latest YJ-8 variant as noted above, and not Ming 035G which Bangladesh is getting. Someone made sure of this. Of course Yuan, Song, late Ming classes are all capable of this, but not early Ming classes which Bangladesh is getting.


umm..... the question is, can we guarantee what we are getting?...... thing of subs are usually not visible outside.... pictures won't tell anything..... unless those are specifically mentioned, we'll never know what we got.... usually some submarine specifics are not made public.... we still don't know how much modifications the subs may go through.... its all speculation.... my belief is that even if we get to know some stuff, none would officially confirm those....

oh.... this is Air Force thread.....


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> umm..... the question is, can we guarantee what we are getting?...... thing of subs are usually not visible outside.... pictures won't tell anything..... unless those are specifically mentioned, we'll never know what we got.... usually some submarine specifics are not made public.... we still don't know how much modifications the subs may go through.... its all speculation.... my belief is that even if we get to know some stuff, none would officially confirm those....
> 
> oh.... this is Air Force thread.....



Thanks for bringing me back on topic. I was hallucinating and drifting off a bit due to lack of sleep...

The first link I posted in my last post is an excellent (I repeat excellent IMHO) discussion on the latest variations (both air-launched and torpedo-tube launched) of YJ-82 (C-802A) AShM. It details (among other things), why the latest AShM from China (air-launched variant) is no longer comparable to Exocet and more comparable to latest versions of the Russian KLUB AShM (which in turn is a copy of Harpoon II). Meaning it is no longer Subsonic and is at least Supersonic in the last (terminal) stage so as to foil counter-offensive measures from the target. Chinese bloggers and others were calling it C-803 since 2005 but the Chinese designation is something different.

Unlike the BrahMos which is Supersonic all the way - this latest Chinese missile being subsonic in the launch and cruise stages affords jet fuel efficiency, increases range (reportedly around the same as BrahMos which is always under 300 KM because of MTCR compliance) and keeps fuel weight down. Which means you can pack more explosives and anti-radiation measures (Magnetic Pulse shock). This is the reason western analysts are calling the new Chinese missile an 'AEGIS-killer'.

So IMHO this would be the replacement for the C-802 and the one to get for maritime strike use. I think JL-9 could launch this (only from a central hardpoint) but I'm sure not L-15 and definitely not JL-8 (whose export designation is K-8 Karakorum) and is a very lightweight platform. As I mentioned - Pakistani JF-17's came with this C-802 AShM family maritime strike mission capability designed-in from the outset. For any Bangladeshi Air Force missile launch platform, it has to be a retrofit and tacked-on scenario (Ghorar agey Gari attach korar moto situation).

Amader BAF mission planners derkey ami boka dhorina kintu ami shotti obak hobo jodi eta ora agey chinta korey air-launch platform select korey thakey.


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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> oh yea , sorry  most likey CJ-7 is coming



Is this the tricycle version of the Yak 152 as shown here?

This is light years better as a training platform than the CJ-6. Yak 152 is one of the best aerobatic airplanes currently available...

Of course it is not as well suited for COIN roles as Super Tucano or the Korean KAI KT-1 Woongbi but oh well.


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## BDforever

Bilal9 said:


> Is this the tricycle version of the Yak 152 as shown here?
> 
> This is light years better as a training platform than the CJ-6. Yak 152 is one of the best aerobatic airplanes currently available...


CJ-7 is developed based on Yak-152


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> Amader BAF mission planners derkey ami boka dhorina kintu ami shotti obak hobo jodi eta ora agey chinta korey air-launch platform select korey thakey.


well, lets see..... I mentioned my opinion based on assumed primary strategic concerns.... getting more AShMs operational seems like one of the priorities.... diversified platforms of delivery for AShMs may be preferred.... these are my speculations only.....


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, lets see..... I mentioned my opinion based on assumed primary strategic concerns.... getting more AShMs operational seems like one of the priorities.... diversified platforms of delivery for AShMs may be preferred.... these are my speculations only.....



Mine too if one follows basic logic but then is there any large-scale strategic defense think tank in Bangladesh who have a 20-50 or 100,000 foot global view? More importantly - does the govt. and the military actually listen or heed their concerns? Ideally IMHO all possible threats and mission scenarios would be thought of, then deterrents and compensating controls/measures/weapons would be researched and and then optimal yearly equipment planning to support long-term doctrine would be obtained. To date that trend remains to be seen in BAF. Look at the standardization of trainers in BAF for example. For Basic, Intermediate and Advanced training we are using a hodge-podge (tokai) collection of T-37's, Fougas, CJ-6's, L-39's, FT-7's etc. So would it be inaccurate to say that standardization or mission based planning does not exist? Of course this is all playing armchair Air-Vice-Marshall but the first step in solving any problem is acknowledging it exists.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> Mine too if one follows basic logic but then is there any large-scale strategic defense think tank in Bangladesh who have a 20-50 or 100,000 foot global view? More importantly - does the govt. and the military actually listen or heed their concerns? Ideally IMHO all possible threats and mission scenarios would be thought of, then deterrents and compensating controls/measures/weapons would be researched and and then optimal yearly equipment planning to support long-term doctrine would be obtained. To date that trend remains to be seen in BAF. Look at the standardization of trainers in BAF for example. For Basic, Intermediate and Advanced training we are using a hodge-podge (tokai) collection of T-37's, Fougas, CJ-6's, L-39's, FT-7's etc. So would it be inaccurate to say that standardization or mission based planning does not exist? Of course this is all playing armchair Air-Vice-Marshall but the first step in solving any problem is acknowledging it exists.



ha ha.... yea, we're all frustrated thinking about an apparent lack of many things..... but I won't conclude on anything rightaway.... and neither can I share the reasons why I won't conclude..... I would only put a full-stop by saying that I'm always optimistic.... we have a lotta potential, and I don't think most people would like to waste it....


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## BDforever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> ha ha.... yea, we're all frustrated thinking about an apparent lack of many things..... but I won't conclude on anything rightaway.... and neither can I share the reasons why I won't conclude..... I would only put a full-stop by saying that I'm always optimistic.... we have a lotta potential, and I don't think most people would like to waste it....





Bilal9 said:


> Mine too if one follows basic logic but then is there any large-scale strategic defense think tank in Bangladesh who have a 20-50 or 100,000 foot global view? More importantly - does the govt. and the military actually listen or heed their concerns? Ideally IMHO all possible threats and mission scenarios would be thought of, then deterrents and compensating controls/measures/weapons would be researched and and then optimal yearly equipment planning to support long-term doctrine would be obtained. To date that trend remains to be seen in BAF. Look at the standardization of trainers in BAF for example. For Basic, Intermediate and Advanced training we are using a hodge-podge (tokai) collection of T-37's, Fougas, CJ-6's, L-39's, FT-7's etc. So would it be inaccurate to say that standardization or mission based planning does not exist? Of course this is all playing armchair Air-Vice-Marshall but the first step in solving any problem is acknowledging it exists.


we had heavy loss in 1991 cyclone. around 60 aircrafts we lost (40 of them fighter aircrafts), since then we did not recover


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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> we had heavy loss in 1991 cyclone. around 60 aircrafts we lost (40 of them fighter aircrafts), since then we did not recover



I think a majority of these were ex-Pakistani F-6 which would have been a large maintenance headache in any case - notwithstanding the generosity of the Pakistanis. In the ultimate analysis training with up-to-date technology is better than losing valuable pilots to obsolete equipment. Look at India with its Mig-21MF/S and other upgraded variants. Even after the glass cockpit upgrades, some of these are falling out of the sky with tragic consequences. There is such a thing called MTBF (mean time between failure) which can wreak havoc with Titanium engine turbine blades or pneumatics / hydraulics or electronics. There is only so much life expectancy you can expect out of fighters, much less Chinese or Russian ones.

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## BDforever

*F-7BG cockpit:*






*FT-7BG1 cockpit:*

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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> *F-7BG cockpit:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FT-7BG1 cockpit:*



Hey nice images . Thanks!

In the first image what are the 'bundled pipes' contraption on the left of the seat? And is that black box under the HUD the target designator (seems like it)? Interesting mix of digital screens and analog gauges in the pilot's office. 

My understanding is that BGI model has the cranked delta wing.

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## BDforever

A pilot of Bangladesh Air Force with F-16 in Turkey
Bangladeshi pilots have been receiving training from turkey with F-16 and F-5 since 2003. 






F-6 fighter jet of Bangladesh Air Force floating during 1991 flood for cyclone in Chittagong Air base. Air force had heavy lose in that cyclone 
Around 40+ F-6s were lost and damaged at that time along with 5 Mi-17 Helicopters.
Air force never recovered after that...


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## BDforever

Bangladesh Air Force's Mil Mi171sh


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## Zarvan

BDforever said:


> A pilot of Bangladesh Air Force with F-16 in Turkey
> Bangladeshi pilots have been receiving training from turkey with F-16 and F-5 since 2003.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-6 fighter jet of Bangladesh Air Force floating during 1991 flood for cyclone in Chittagong Air base. Air force had heavy lose in that cyclone
> Around 40+ F-6s were lost and damaged at that time along with 5 Mi-17 Helicopters.
> Air force never recovered after that...


So are you looking forward to order F-16 other wise their is no purpose in getting trained on F-16


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## BDforever

Zarvan said:


> So are you looking forward to order F-16 other wise their is no purpose in getting trained on F-16


no more, it is part of advance training program, BD looked for 27 F16 15+ from USA during late 1990s but USA refused to sell.


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## Zarvan

BDforever said:


> no more, it is part of advance training program, BD looked for 27 F16 15+ from USA during late 1990s but USA refused to sell.


Than what are future jets you may go for


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## BDforever

Zarvan said:


> Than what are future jets you may go for


possible candidate Mig 35


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## Zarvan

BDforever said:


> possible candidate Mig 35


Mig 35 are you serious well if true than good I hope at least you order 5 squadrons

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## BDforever

halfilhal said:


> Wow...Bangladesh does not deserve to have an air force after this debacle. 40 planes and 5 helicopters trying to swim because lungis can't fly them to safety. Lets fly to turkey and post in front of F-16s which are not ours..hmmm...


hype of idiocy


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## Dem!god

halfilhal said:


> Wow...Bangladesh does not deserve to have an air force after this debacle. 40 planes and 5 helicopters trying to swim because lungis can't fly them to safety. Lets fly to turkey and post in front of F-16s which are not ours..hmmm...


why always have to be rude to others.....
every nation has its own requirement and finances....... making fun of others just to laugh is nt good......

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## Informant

BDforever said:


>



Hain? What? Hahaha wowzaaa now i have seen it all!


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## BDforever

Informant said:


> Hain? What? Hahaha wowzaaa now i have seen it all!


1991 cycle had most deadlist in Bangladesh in history.
killed at least 138,000 people and leaving as many as 10 million homeless.
1991 Bangladesh cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Informant

BDforever said:


> 1991 cycle had most deadlist in Bangladesh in history.
> killed at least 138,000 people and leaving as many as 10 million homeless.
> 1991 Bangladesh cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



What was your AF doing? Letting such assets float away, literally.


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## BDforever

Informant said:


> What was your AF doing? Letting such assets float away, literally.


ever got hit by 250 km speed storm in low area ?


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## Informant

BDforever said:


> ever got hit by 250 km storm ? get a hit survive then talk.



Werent there report before hand? I REFUSE to believe it. This is incompetency at it's best. There would have been meteorological reports regarding it. Come on!


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## BDforever

Informant said:


> Werent there report before hand? I REFUSE to believe it. This is incompetency at it's best. There would have been meteorological reports regarding it. Come on!


we are talking about year 1991 not 2014


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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> we are talking about year 1991 not 2014


I'd say Bangladesh is far better prepared for cyclones and tsunamis at this time with advance warning systems and shelters than any country in the subcontinent. But - in reality, you can't really prepare for massive eventualities like this. Just the nature of the beast. 

And yes - dead fish are everywhere after a cyclone. But rotting fish are a nuisance anyhow...

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## Luftwaffe

Informant said:


> What was your AF doing? Letting such assets float away, literally.



Japanese F-2 [copy of f-16s] got trashed due to 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami. Most will be recovered but F-6s were already old. So it was not incompetence and if that was incompetence than Japanese are also incompetent for losing a 100m+ Aircraft each.


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## Informant

Luftwaffe said:


> Japanese F-2 [copy of f-16s] got trashed due to 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami. Most will be recovered but F-6s were already old. So it was not incompetence and if that was incompetence than Japanese are also incompetent for losing a 100m+ Aircraft each.



Can you scientifically predict earthquakes? Nopes, no solid reliable technology is present. But weather is predictable and you meteorology departments for such reasons. Do you mean to tell me that the Bangla authorities failed to determine such a huge storm was on their way or their roundabouts? 

Gross incompetency. No two ways about it.


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## Bilal9

Informant said:


> Can you scientifically predict earthquakes? Nopes, no solid reliable technology is present. But weather is predictable and you meteorology departments for such reasons. Do you mean to tell me that the Bangla authorities failed to determine such a huge storm was on their way or their roundabouts?
> 
> Gross incompetency. No two ways about it.



If you wanted to trash the reputation of the Govt. in Bangladesh or Pakistan (for an event that happened 25 some odd years ago), you could find lots of ways and excuses to do it. Why limit it to natural disasters or acts of God? And the point of this exercise is?? 

This in the US is called Monday morning quarterbacking. Everybody becomes a critic after the fact. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think there were far more able experts and meteorologists in Bangladesh that looked at this post-event (and took remediatory steps) compared to any of us lay idiots posting 'opinions' on this forum. Sometimes your options are limited to remediation only - like in the Tsunami in Indonesia and Thailand. If you have a critique - then post specific constructive steps that should have been taken instead of wholesale criticism.


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## Informant

Bilal9 said:


> If you wanted to trash the reputation of the Govt. in Bangladesh or Pakistan (for an event that happened 25 some odd years ago), you could find lots of ways and excuses to do it. Why limit it to natural disasters or acts of God? And the point of this exercise is??
> 
> This in the US is called Monday morning quarterbacking. Everybody becomes a critic after the fact. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think there were far more able experts and meteorologists in Bangladesh that looked at this post-event (and took remediatory steps) compared to any of us lay idiots posting 'opinions' on this forum. Sometimes your options are limited to remediation only - like in the Tsunami in Indonesia and Thailand. If you have a critique - then post specific constructive steps that should have been taken instead of wholesale criticism.



This is not badmouthing GoB, it is pointing out the incompetency of the parties involved. Tsunami is underwatr eathquake caused which we still cannot detect. We can hurricanes and cyclones.

Im not an idiot, speak for yourself.


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## BDforever

Informant said:


> This is not badmouthing GoB, it is pointing out the incompetency of the parties involved. Tsunami is underwatr eathquake caused which we still cannot detect. We can hurricanes and cyclones.
> 
> Im not an idiot, speak for yourself.


we are talking about tsunami which can be monitored from long way.
we are not idiot, speak for yourself


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## Informant

BDforever said:


> we are talking about tsunami which can be monitored from long way.
> we are not idiot, speak for yourself



Then refute my claim, what was the BAF or GoB doing when the cyclone was detected? Im not calling anyone an idiot.


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## BDforever

Informant said:


> Then refute my claim, what was the BAF or GoB doing when the cyclone was detected? Im not calling anyone an idiot.


do you realized that we are talking about 23 years old story ?


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## Informant

BDforever said:


> do you realized that we are talking about 23 years old story ?



doesnt matter when you guys lost 40 plus combat planes.

But lets move i suppose.


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## BDforever

Informant said:


> doesnt matter when you guys lost 40 plus combat planes.
> 
> But lets move i suppose.


yes it matters , do you know why ? because there was huge technological difference from now specially in this part


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## kalu_miah

It was not a good idea to make an air base on a tidal zone in the first place. Tidal wave is historically common in this area, that should have been taken into account before making a decision to make an airbase and park so many fighter planes there. Not moving them before the cyclone was also idiotic.

Bangladesh Air force must take full responsibility for this blunder, but what can we expect from a nation who are prone to so many blunders, including 1971 war of separation. 42 long years later, we find out finally that we never became independent but rather a vassal of India? So nothing is surprising from the so called elite and leaders of this Bangladeshi people.


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## UKBengali

kalu_miah said:


> It was not a good idea to make an air base on a tidal zone in the first place. Tidal wave is historically common in this area, that should have been taken into account before making a decision to make an airbase and park so many fighter planes there. Not moving them before the cyclone was also idiotic.
> 
> Bangladesh Air force must take full responsibility for this blunder, but what can we expect from a nation who are prone to so many blunders,* including 1971 war of separation*. 42 long years later, we find out finally that we never became independent but rather a vassal of India? So nothing is surprising from the so called elite and leaders of this Bangladeshi people.



Are you seriously thinking it was a blunder to separate from Pakistan?

The old Pakistan was never going to work to start off with due to geography. There were two wings of equal population with 1000 miles of hostile India separating them. Also, West Pakistanis had a superiority complex and would never rightly allow the dominant Bengalis to run the country.

Look at the state of Pakistan now, with extreme instability and poor economic growth and the relative stability and much higher levels of growth that BD is experiencing and you can see who is better off.

All we need is for the Awami League to be kicked out, new government to take BD relations with China much closer and then BD will have true independence and development.

BD is much better off having separated from Pakistan.

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## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> It was not a good idea to make an air base on a tidal zone in the first place. Tidal wave is historically common in this area, that should have been taken into account before making a decision to make an airbase and park so many fighter planes there. Not moving them before the cyclone was also idiotic.
> 
> Bangladesh Air force must take full responsibility for this blunder, but what can we expect from a nation who are prone to so many blunders, including 1971 war of separation. 42 long years later, we find out finally that we never became independent but rather a vassal of India? So nothing is surprising from the so called elite and leaders of this Bangladeshi people.






yes they were even liar

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## livingdead

Informant said:


> This is not badmouthing GoB, it is pointing out the incompetency of the parties involved. Tsunami is underwatr eathquake caused which we still cannot detect. We can hurricanes and cyclones.
> 
> Im not an idiot, speak for yourself.


i am almost certain than govt of India did not have technology to predict the movement and extent of damage a cyclone can cause(during that period). We saw devastating cyclone in east in 99 and tsunami in 2004.
Now its much better tracked and people are evacuated.

Not sure about bangladesh though.


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## kalu_miah

UKBengali said:


> Are you seriously thinking it was a blunder to separate from Pakistan?
> 
> The old Pakistan was never going to work to start off with due to geography. There were two wings of equal population with 1000 miles of hostile India separating them. Also, West Pakistanis had a superiority complex and would never rightly allow the dominant Bengalis to run the country.
> 
> Look at the state of Pakistan now, with extreme instability and poor economic growth and the relative stability and much higher levels of growth that BD is experiencing and you can see who is better off.
> 
> All we need is for the Awami League to be kicked out, new government to take BD relations with China much closer and then BD will have true independence and development.
> 
> BD is much better off having separated from Pakistan.



I will believe that the separation was wise only when I see Bangladesh can successfully face Indian threat by:
- getting fair share of water from all common rivers
- getting close to China, ie a full mutual defense treaty and Chinese naval bases in Bangladesh soil
- perhaps develop nuclear power sector and as a result master technology to develop deterrence if needed like Japan and South Korea

What you should note, the Pakistan you are dissing have already done all of the above. They have Indus water treaty, they have Gwadar which has been handed to China and will probably become a Chinese naval base in the future and obviously they have developed nuclear power sector and have a full deterrence, the only one among all Muslim countries of the world. So, yes, looking at these vital strategic factors, it was better that we did not separate in 1971 regardless of some abuse by them (note how many political killing there was before March 1971?). Till we can show that we have done better than them, we have no reason to celebrate our separation or think that we did a good thing.

From the results I see so far, Bangladesh as a country and people has shown themselves to be inferior in all respects to Pakistani people and country, so I would even venture to say that their feeling of superiority was indeed justified and we should have stayed under their supervision and protection. The terrorism problem is a direct by product of the CIA sponsored Afghan Jihad, it will go away in a decade in my estimate.

Note also, if we did not separate, Pakistan and China was cooperating to make North East states independent and they probably would become independent if 1971 war did not take place. That would have been our greatest strategic relief for perpetuity.

So looking at all these, I can say conclusively that creation of Bangladesh was a mistake. But having said that, I also believe, after what happened in 1971, it is not possible to go back to the past. We have Bangladesh as a reality and we should try to make the best of what we have.

And I am not particularly hung up about Awami League vs BNP/Jamat. If Awami League can use their survival instinct and embrace China before BNP/Jamat, I will support Awami League in that case, as that is good for the future of Bangladesh. I have also lost my confidence on democratic system in poor illiterate country like Bangladesh. I want to see a strong force, even if dictatorial, that is fully allied with China and can become an extension of PLA. Whoever among the political parties, is able to forge a strong alliance with China, will get my vote of confidence.

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## Kompromat

kalu_miah said:


> I will believe that the separation was wise only when I see Bangladesh can successfully face Indian threat by:
> - getting fair share of water from all common rivers
> - getting close to China, ie a full mutual defense treaty and Chinese naval bases in Bangladesh soil
> - perhaps develop nuclear power sector and as a result master technology to develop deterrence if needed like Japan and South Korea
> 
> What you should note, the Pakistan you are dissing have already done all of the above. They have Indus water treaty, they have Gwadar which has been handed to China and will probably become a Chinese naval base in the future and obviously they have developed nuclear power sector and have a full deterrence, the only one among all Muslim countries of the world. So, yes, looking at these vital strategic factors, it was better that we did not separate in 1971 regardless of some abuse by them (note how many political killing there was before March 1971?). Till we can show that we have done better than them, we have no reason to celebrate our separation or think that we did a good thing.
> 
> From the results I see so far, Bangladesh as a country and people has shown themselves to be inferior in all respects to Pakistani people and country, so I would even venture to say that their feeling of superiority was indeed justified and we should have stayed under their supervision and protection. The terrorism problem is a direct by product of the CIA sponsored Afghan Jihad, it will go away in a decade in my estimate.
> 
> Note also, if we did not separate, Pakistan and China was cooperating to make North East states independent and they probably would become independent if 1971 war did not take place. That would have been our greatest strategic relief for perpetuity.
> 
> So looking at all these, I can say conclusively that creation of Bangladesh was a mistake. But having said that, I also believe, after what happened in 1971, it is not possible to go back to the past. We have Bangladesh as a reality and we should try to make the best of what we have.
> 
> And I am not particularly hung up about Awami League vs BNP/Jamat. If Awami League can use their survival instinct and embrace China before BNP/Jamat, I will support Awami League in that case, as that is good for the future of Bangladesh. I have also lost my confidence on democratic system in poor illiterate country like Bangladesh. I want to see a strong force, even if dictatorial, that is fully allied with China and can become an extension of PLA. Whoever among the political parties, is able to forge a strong alliance with China, will get my vote of confidence.




Despite all of the above, a Pakistani even today is more likely to stand up for a Bangladeshi than for an Indian (even Muslim Indians)

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## MilSpec

Aeronaut said:


> Despite all of the above, a Pakistani even today is more likely to stand up for a Bangladeshi than for an Indian (even Muslim Indians)



It is fascinating to see Bangladeshis vying for foreign powers to set up mil bases in their homeland.... I am not sure if they are aware of the price it comes with...

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## Kompromat

sandy_3126 said:


> It is fascinating to see Bangladeshis vying for foreign powers to set up mil bases in their homeland.... I am not sure if they are aware of the price it comes with...



I hope they make an informed decision.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

yet again political discussion in a permanent thread..... I'm losing interest.....


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## random123

Are they looking for JF-17 and K-8?


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## UKBengali

kalu_miah said:


> I will believe that the separation was wise only when I see Bangladesh can successfully face Indian threat by:
> - getting fair share of water from all common rivers
> - getting close to China, ie a full mutual defense treaty and Chinese naval bases in Bangladesh soil
> - perhaps develop nuclear power sector and as a result master technology to develop deterrence if needed like Japan and South Korea
> 
> What you should note, the Pakistan you are dissing have already done all of the above. They have Indus water treaty, they have Gwadar which has been handed to China and will probably become a Chinese naval base in the future and obviously they have developed nuclear power sector and have a full deterrence, the only one among all Muslim countries of the world. So, yes, looking at these vital strategic factors, it was better that we did not separate in 1971 regardless of some abuse by them (note how many political killing there was before March 1971?). Till we can show that we have done better than them, we have no reason to celebrate our separation or think that we did a good thing.
> 
> From the results I see so far, Bangladesh as a country and people has shown themselves to be inferior in all respects to Pakistani people and country, so I would even venture to say that their feeling of superiority was indeed justified and we should have stayed under their supervision and protection. The terrorism problem is a direct by product of the CIA sponsored Afghan Jihad, it will go away in a decade in my estimate.
> 
> Note also, if we did not separate, Pakistan and China was cooperating to make North East states independent and they probably would become independent if 1971 war did not take place. That would have been our greatest strategic relief for perpetuity.
> 
> So looking at all these, I can say conclusively that creation of Bangladesh was a mistake. But having said that, I also believe, after what happened in 1971, it is not possible to go back to the past. We have Bangladesh as a reality and we should try to make the best of what we have.
> 
> And I am not particularly hung up about Awami League vs BNP/Jamat. If Awami League can use their survival instinct and embrace China before BNP/Jamat, I will support Awami League in that case, as that is good for the future of Bangladesh. I have also lost my confidence on democratic system in poor illiterate country like Bangladesh. I want to see a strong force, even if dictatorial, that is fully allied with China and can become an extension of PLA. Whoever among the political parties, is able to forge a strong alliance with China, will get my vote of confidence.




 Really, Pakistan doing better than BD?

The gap is GDP/capita is closing as we speak. Despite the political situation, GDP in BD is growing at a strong 6% a year. Once China eliminates all Indian influence in BD(say 2025 when China reaches a level where it is considered to be a peer of US), BD will be free to chart it's own course. China will free South Asia of this Indian menace once and for all.

BD did not really have as much freedom as Pakistan did in 1971 to completely separate from India. BD was in a very poor situation economically and militarily mainly due to the deliberate neglect from Pakistan. In a normal country BD would have had a similar GDP/capita and similar military strength as Pakistan in 1971 but it did not.

It had no military to speak of and was desperately poor. There simply was not the funds to either build a credible military or carry out large infrastructure projects.Now there is but we have the Awami League puppets in power so it is not going to happen.

As an example to back up my point with funds for infrastructure, BD has much lower levels of debt than either Pakistan or India - BD has government debt of 18% of GDP whereas the other two are at around the 70% mark. BD could easily raise 10s of billions for many infrastructure project in the next 5 years if it wanted to but for that you need a government free of foreign interference.

With the military, defence as proportion of GDP is a paltry 2% and again could easily be raised to 3% without affecting poverty or the wider economy.

Only thing holding back BD is Indian influence. Allow this to be completely eliminated and see how much BD can progress as a unitary state and not as part of a nation with many other ethnicities that will only hold it back.

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## kalu_miah

UKBengali said:


> Really, Pakistan doing better than BD?
> 
> The gap is GDP/capita is closing as we speak. Despite the political situation, GDP in BD is growing at a strong 6% a year. Once China eliminates all Indian influence in BD(say 2025 when China reaches a level where it is considered to be a peer of US), BD will be free to chart it's own course. China will free South Asia of this Indian menace once and for all.
> 
> BD did not really have as much freedom as Pakistan did in 1971 to completely separate from India. BD was in a very poor situation economically and militarily mainly due to the deliberate neglect from Pakistan. In a normal country BD would have had a similar GDP/capita and similar military strength as Pakistan in 1971 but it did not.
> 
> It had no military to speak of and was desperately poor. There simply was not the funds to either build a credible military or carry out large infrastructure projects.Now there is but we have the Awami League puppets in power so it is not going to happen.
> 
> As an example to back up my point with funds for infrastructure, BD has much lower levels of debt than either Pakistan or India - BD has government debt of 18% of GDP whereas the other two are at around the 70% mark. BD could easily raise 10s of billions for many infrastructure project in the next 5 years if it wanted to but for that you need a government free of foreign interference.
> 
> With the military, defence as proportion of GDP is a paltry 2% and again could easily be raised to 3% without affecting poverty or the wider economy.
> 
> Only thing holding back BD is Indian influence. Allow this to be completely eliminated and see how much BD can progress as a unitary state and not as part of a nation with many other ethnicities that will only hold it back.



I wish I could share your optimism about Bangladesh. Lets just hope that we can throw out Indian influence and build a strong alliance with China.


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## Armstrong

UKBengali said:


> Are you seriously thinking it was a blunder to separate from Pakistan?
> 
> The old Pakistan was never going to work to start off with due to geography. There were two wings of equal population with 1000 miles of hostile India separating them. Also, West Pakistanis had a superiority complex and would never rightly allow the dominant Bengalis to run the country.
> 
> Look at the state of Pakistan now, with extreme instability and poor economic growth and the relative stability and much higher levels of growth that BD is experiencing and you can see who is better off.
> 
> All we need is for the Awami League to be kicked out, new government to take BD relations with China much closer and then BD will have true independence and development.
> 
> BD is much better off having separated from Pakistan.



You do realize that Pakistan has an Afghanistan to deal with that has remained destabilized for the past 3 decades, an India that is ever belligerent and an Iran that when it isn't engaging in a turf war with the Arabs in every Muslim Country then is having a go at the US - making the region extremely....extremely unstable to say the least. 

And when nearly 58% of Bangladeshis (the highest in South-Asia) are living in multi-dimensional poverty according to the UNDP Human Development Report of 2013, when Bangladesh's GDP is less than half ours, when your GDP per Capita is less than ours, when the underweight children in Bangladesh as a percentage of all children under 5 is more than ours, when Youth Unemployment is more than ours and when the income inequality in Bangladesh is worse than ours - I don't understand what causes you to issue a disparaging comment about Pakistan's State when you're in the same or worst condition as we are.....if you don't believe me you can always ask nearly 2 million illegal Bangladeshis in Pakistan ! 

And by the way this is despite us fighting an insurgency for the better of the last 3 decades on our Western Border and a State of Constant Mobilization on our Eastern Border - None of which you had to contend to !

The only thing that I agree with is that we too are glad that East-Pakistan is Bangladesh now - Good riddance !

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## Luftwaffe

Informant said:


> Can you scientifically predict earthquakes? Nopes, no solid reliable technology is present. But weather is predictable and you meteorology departments for such reasons. Do you mean to tell me that the Bangla authorities failed to determine such a huge storm was on their way or their roundabouts?
> 
> Gross incompetency. No two ways about it.



"Typhoon Cobra 1944" do research how great disaster it was or was it sheer incompetence, do let us know with massive money and brains US could have saved their equipment No? 

@BDforever



Aeronaut said:


> I hope they make an informed decision.



Cherry picking comment by one of the member _"the price it comes with"_ only applies to Bangladesh but it don't apply to Japan, S, Korea, Philippines, Australia and so on.


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## UKBengali

Armstrong said:


> You do realize that Pakistan has an Afghanistan to deal with that has remained destabilized for the past 3 decades, an India that is ever belligerent and an Iran that when it isn't engaging in a turf war with the Arabs in every Muslim Country then is having a go at the US - making the region extremely....extremely unstable to say the least.
> 
> And when nearly 58% of Bangladeshis (the highest in South-Asia) are living in multi-dimensional poverty according to the UNDP Human Development Report of 2013, when Bangladesh's GDP is less than half ours, when your GDP per Capita is less than ours, when the underweight children in Bangladesh as a percentage of all children under 5 is more than ours, when Youth Unemployment is more than ours and when the income inequality in Bangladesh is worse than ours - I don't understand what causes you to issue a disparaging comment about Pakistan's State when you're in the same or worst condition as we are.....if you don't believe me you can always ask nearly 2 million illegal Bangladeshis in Pakistan !
> 
> And by the way this is despite us fighting an insurgency for the better of the last 3 decades on our Western Border and a State of Constant Mobilization on our Eastern Border - None of which you had to contend to !
> 
> The only thing that I agree with is that we too are glad that East-Pakistan is Bangladesh now - Good riddance !



I am sorry if my comments caused offence but Pakistan is not a stable country right now. Say what you like about BD but is much more stable and economic growth is still at 6% a year and foreigners are keen to do business in the country.

I would prefer if Pakistan was doing better as it is in BD's interest for Pakistan to help keep Indians in check in South Asia.

While Pakistan GDP may be a lot higher, GDP/capita is no that much different.BD is at around 1200 with Pakistan at 1500 I think. With per capita income growing twice as fast in BD compared to Pakistan, the day is not too far off when BD surpasses Pakistan.


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## Informant

Luftwaffe said:


> "Typhoon Cobra 1944" do research how great disaster it was or was it sheer incompetence, do let us know with massive money and brains US could have saved their equipment No?
> 
> @BDforever
> 
> 
> 
> Cherry picking comment by one of the member _"the price it comes with"_ only applies to Bangladesh but it don't apply to Japan, S, Korea, Philippines, Australia and so on.



Genius 1944 and 1994( i forgot the year now) has a 50 year difference. Didnt have the technology then. If you cant logically deduce the massive, infact complete difference in technology in half a century . Do you really not see the difference?

I give up.


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## Luftwaffe

Informant said:


> Genius 1944 and 1994( i forgot the year now) has a 50 year difference. Didnt have the technology then. If you cant logically deduce the massive, infact complete difference in technology in half a century . Do you really not see the difference?
> 
> I give up.



Genius even in 1944 US had much capital and smart labour compared to 1994 Bangladesh small air force, it was a disaster, there is absolutely no need to argue after the example of "Typhoon Cobra" example nor would I be replying, good day.


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## Informant

Luftwaffe said:


> Genius even in 1944 US had much capital and smart labour compared to 1994 Bangladesh small air force, it was a disaster, there is absolutely no need to argue after the example of "Typhoon Cobra" example nor would I be replying, good day.



This is my last post here, did the US have the technology to discover a massive hurricane heading their way? NOPES. They did not have the tech in 1944. When there were zero satellites up in the air. 

I give up.


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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> Genius even in 1944 US had much capital and smart labour compared to 1994 Bangladesh small air force, it was a disaster, there is absolutely no need to argue after the example of "Typhoon Cobra" example nor would I be replying, good day.





Informant said:


> This is my last post here, did the US have the technology to discover a massive hurricane heading their way? NOPES. They did not have the tech in 1944. When there were zero satellites up in the air.
> 
> I give up.


drop the topic


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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> drop the topic



Dropped...zor a dajka dhere sey lage, I knew as as i bring Typhoon Cobra ppl would run away pants down.

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## Bilal9

Just to ponder - some details on Bangladesh' Cyclone early warning system. And here's an interesting article.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

com123 said:


> As PAF is committed towards replacing their 138+ F-7P/PG(with 50+ F-7PGs) and about 50 A-5Cs already replaced with 150 JF-17s. Then BAF can buy PAF origin F-7PGs to complement their fleet also sell of their own retired F-7Ms to the users.



A-5s have been phased out..


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## BDforever

com123 said:


> As PAF is committed towards replacing their 138+ F-7P/PG(with 50+ F-7PGs) and about 50 A-5Cs already replaced with 150 JF-17s. Then BAF can buy PAF origin F-7PGs to complement their fleet also sell of their own retired F-7Ms to the users.


 no point of getting more 3rd gen aircraft

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## Nike

sandy_3126 said:


> It is fascinating to see Bangladeshis vying for foreign powers to set up mil bases in their homeland.... I am not sure if they are aware of the price it comes with...




Hmm i can smell another Wa or Kachin rebels scenarios like was happened in Myanmar, if Bangladesh let the Chinese get their feet in Bangladesh to put Dhaka under pressure from Beijing

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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> no point of getting more 3rd gen aircraft



While this does have some logic - air forces typically have two approaches towards purchasing aircraft. One is to purchase a smaller number of highly advanced sophisticated aircraft (like the PAF F-16s or IAF Su-30MKIs) and also to have a 'force-multiplier' option by having a larger number of relatively simpler aircraft (like the PAF A-5c Fantan, F-7P/PG or IAF Mig-21s).

In case of Bangladesh, it would be Mig-29 (being upgraded to SMT version) for former role and F-7BG for the latter role.

I don't think you could use trainer aircraft (L-39, K-8, Yak-130, Alenia M-346) as force-multipliers because their flight envelope doesn't allow it. They may substitute nicely as COIN (counter insurgency) use however.

Older F-7PGs may be utilized as cannibalization sources to keep our F-7BGs flying. We do need a large number of F-7BGs to keep the aircraft count up. In that case - local capability have to be upgraded to overhaul Wopen turbojets used in these machines. And like the OP mentioned, F-7M's can be sold off to airforces still flying them.

I see A-5c's to be not as useful because these were already based on 60's technology (F-6 or Mig-19) and leave a lot to be desired aerodynamically.

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## BDforever

Bilal9 said:


> While this does have some logic - air forces typically have two approaches towards purchasing aircraft. One is to purchase a smaller number of highly advanced sophisticated aircraft (like the PAF F-16s or IAF Su-30MKIs) and also to have a 'force-multiplier' option by having a larger number of relatively simpler aircraft (like the PAF A-5c Fantan, F-7P/PG or IAF Mig-21s).
> 
> In case of Bangladesh, it would be Mig-29 (being upgraded to SMT version) for former role and F-7BG for the latter role.
> 
> I don't think you could use trainer aircraft (L-39, K-8, Yak-130, Alenia M-346) as force-multipliers because their flight envelope doesn't allow it. They may substitute nicely as COIN (counter insurgency) use however.
> 
> Older F-7PGs may be utilized as cannibalization sources to keep our F-7BGs flying. We do need a large number of F-7BGs to keep the aircraft count up. In that case - local capability have to be upgraded to overhaul Wopen turbojets used in these machines. And like the OP mentioned, F-7M's can be sold off to airforces still flying them.
> 
> I see A-5c's to be not as useful because these were already based on 60's technology (F-6 or Mig-19) and leave a lot to be desired aerodynamically.


we will have enough 2nd catagory active aircraft inventory: 24 Yak 130+ 9 K-8 + 32 (F-7BGI and BG)= 65 units
now BD is looking for 160 units of 1st catagory active aircrafts.

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## kalu_miah

BDforever said:


> we will have enough 2nd catagory active aircraft inventory: 24 Yak 130+ 9 K-8 + 32 (F-7BGI and BG)= 65 units
> now BD is looking for 160 units of 1st catagory active aircrafts.



Chengdu J-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*F-7BG1
Maximum speed:* Mach 2.0 (2,200 km/h (1,189 knots, 1,375 mph)) IAS

Yakovlev Yak-130 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*Maximum speed:* 1,050 km/h (644 mph)

Yak-130 is only good for training and COIN like Bilal9 said above. Look at the maximum speed.


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## Luftwaffe

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> A-5s have been phased out..



He is Nishan..


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## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> Chengdu J-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> *F-7BG1
> Maximum speed:* Mach 2.0 (2,200 km/h (1,189 knots, 1,375 mph)) IAS
> 
> Yakovlev Yak-130 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> *Maximum speed:* 1,050 km/h (644 mph)
> 
> Yak-130 is only good for training and COIN like Bilal9 said above. Look at the maximum speed.



speed is not everything. Yak 130 is far more superior interms of armaments and avionics.
F-7BGI is more for ground attack role like Yak-130.
Studdy about Yak-130. it is not just trainer, it is also ground attacker.

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## BDforever

com123 said:


> PAF might have about 55+ F-7PGs which are good like BDs have. They are cheap to operated and have quite similarity in terms of Airframe and Engine with F-7M/Ps to be used as spares for keeping up the F-7MG/PGs in Air. More over, BDs can request Chinese to upgrade all of the F-7BG/PGs with latest Avionics and Sensors so that it can use modern Chinese/Russian and NATO origin weapon systems.
> 
> Also there are plenty of A-5s in Chinese inventory that might have retired and I am sure BDs can gain it as Aircraft and as spares from China and Pakistan with again some atest Avionics and Sensors which would be helpful in keeping the fleet numbers up and running just like some African Nations are doing.


good then , do it for yourself. it will save your money

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## BDforever

com123 said:


> I think BDs should understand that they should have a supportive Air Force, Although they might be looking for some more capable fighter which is really a good idea. But in the mean time they should opt for more F-7MGs and A-5IIIs even from China with Avionics and weapons package; I am sure China might be able to supply surplus Aircraft Free of Cost as spares and even BDs can gain spares from other operators of F-7s and A-5s from all over the world for Cheap.


stop the nonsense now, enough said. same bla bla again and again.


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## Zhukov

Well in My assesment, Bangladesh Should be looking for 50 odd Mig35 as air superiority Fighters with Adder BVRs from Russia and 100 JF17/FC1 with SD10s Multirole Fighters and Upgrade the existing fleet to be used as long as possible before future procurements. As a start towards Modernization into a formidable airforce, and think of any kind of defence against any Indian Aggression.But ofcourse if they are interested to spend that much in Defence Budget and most importantly if they can afford.
Bengali Experts can give better opinnion.

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## Fahad Khan 2

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Well in My assesment, Bangladesh Should be looking for 50 odd Mig35 as air superiority Fighters with Adder BVRs from Russia and 100 JF17/FC1 with SD10s Multirole Fighters and Upgrade the existing fleet to be used as long as possible before future procurements. As a start towards Modernization into a formidable airforce, and think of any kind of defence against any Indian Aggression.But ofcourse if they are interested to spend that much in Defence Budget and most importantly if they can afford.
> Bengali Experts can give better opinnion.



If they act on your opinion Bangladesh will be bankrupt next day...

We should gift some of our f7-pg to BAF... But only when RAWAMI league is out of govt...


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## arp2041

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Well in My assesment, Bangladesh Should be looking for 50 odd Mig35 as air superiority Fighters with Adder BVRs from Russia and 100 JF17/FC1 with SD10s Multirole Fighters and Upgrade the existing fleet to be used as long as possible before future procurements. As a start towards Modernization into a formidable airforce, and think of any kind of defence against any Indian Aggression.But ofcourse if they are interested to spend that much in Defence Budget and most importantly if they can afford.
> Bengali Experts can give better opinnion.



Mate, you are absolutely right. Defense should be the top most priority of any sovereign nation on earth. I would love to see if BAF could afford few F-22s......love these birds. Any plans of inducting F-35 over & above F-22s will be an icing on cake.


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## UKBengali

Fahad Khan 2 said:


> If they act on your opinion Bangladesh will be bankrupt next day...
> 
> We should gift some of our f7-pg to BAF... But only when RAWAMI league is our of govt...



Actually 50 Mig-35 and 100 JF-17s are affordable. BD economy is no longer a complete basket-case.

The main problem lies in the current Indian backed puppet government in BD.

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## Zhukov

UKBengali said:


> Actually 50 Mig-35 and 100 JF-17s are affordable. BD economy is no longer a complete basket-case.
> 
> The main problem lies in the current Indian backed puppet government in BD.


Throw them out of power if they are such a problem.
If we can outset a military dictatorship why cant u throwaway an elected govt if it is against your national interest?

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## UKBengali

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Throw them out of power if they are such a problem.
> If we can outset a military dictatorship why cant u throwaway an elected govt if it is against your national interest?



Problem is the army has been completely infiltrated by regime supporters.

We can still throw them out via street protests but BD people are not willing to sustain the massive casualties this would entail.

Like they say, you get the leaders you deserve.

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## fallen_soldier

UKBengali said:


> Problem is the army has been completely infiltrated by regime supporters.
> 
> We can still throw them out via street protests but BD people are not willing to sustain the massive casualties this would entail.
> 
> Like they say, you get the leaders you deserve.


I agree.

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## eastwatch

Deleted


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## eastwatch

UKBengali said:


> Problem is the* army has been completely infiltrated by regime supporters*.
> 
> We can still throw them out via street protests but BD people are not willing to sustain the massive casualties this would entail.
> 
> Like they say, you get the leaders you deserve.



BNP is the only party that can substitute AL. But, I think, unless BNP discards alliance with Jamaat, a religion fundamentalist party, it will not be allowed to form a govt. Not only India, but also all important western countries are on the same boat on this matter. They will use all their cards again so that BNP does not come to power when in alliance with Jamaat. 

This is what they did during the last election. The foreign ambassadors regularly assured Begum Zia of a new election and dissuaded her not to join the last one. They made BKZ believe that their countries would force AL to give another election within three months. Well, it did not materialize.

By the way, why should we expect a stupid BKZ to strengthen BD's military when she did just the opposite during her last two terms. She turned BNS Bangabandhu into a museum and sued SHW for buying Mig-29s. It is no wonder why the military of today supports AL over BNP.

However, instead of saying the truth you people here are claiming that the military has been infiltrated by the Awami Leaguers. Simply speakin, BKZ is no more liked by the military because this self-centered woman gave nothing to the military.


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## Zhukov

Cannot Comment on BD politics. Its Internal matter of BD and bengalis knows best for them.
But either it be AL or BNP both are infact bengali Parties. And both should realize the indian and Burmeze Threat.
BD might not have the luxury of a non-Conventional Nuclear Deterrent like Pakistan.
So they have to strengthen there conventional forces.
And Air force is always spearhead of the Armed forces.

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## Zhukov

And a bit off topic. Do bengalis have some other Significant political forces other then conventional Bipolar system.
Like Imran Khan and Tahir ul Qadri in Addition to PMLN and PPP in Pakistan.


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## eastwatch

UKBengali said:


> Actually 50 Mig-35 and 100 JF-17s are affordable. BD economy is no longer a complete basket-case.
> 
> The main problem lies in the current Indian backed puppet government in BD.


So, let us hear from you what planes and armaments did that Indian *non-puppet* BNP govt. of BD bought during its two full terms? Also, can you remind us who wanted to sell away the Mig-29s and who made BNS Bangabondhu a naval museum? Would very much like to hear truth from you.


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## UKBengali

eastwatch said:


> So, let us hear from you what planes and armaments did that Indian *non-puppet* BNP govt. of BD bought during its two full terms? Also, can you remind us who wanted to sell away the Mig-29s and who made BNS Bangabondhu a naval museum? Would very much like to hear truth from you.



I am not a big fan of BNP either but the fact is that Awami League did not play fair
by abolishing the caretaker system.


All I want is an independent BD with a decent military - subject to making sure that poor have basic needs met first. If the Indians have something decent to offer BD, then by all means trade with them. BD should have more respect than be subservient to India.

Unfortunately BD has two poor parties in place and a 3rd force is desperately needed.

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## Zhukov

UKBengali said:


> I am not a big fan of BNP either but the fact is that Awami League did not play fair
> by abolishing the caretaker system.
> 
> 
> All I want is an independent BD with a decent military - subject to making sure that poor have basic needs met first. If the Indians have something decent to offer BD, then by all means trade with them. BD should have more respect than be subservient to India.
> 
> Unfortunately BD has two poor parties in place and a 3rd force is desperately needed.


Whatever you say guys. But BD airforce needa a serious upgrade.Even Myanmar Airforce will eat BD airforce in days let alone Formiddable Indian Airforce. Only proper aircrafts seem to be 8 obb Mig29s and some 18 F7BG. That is seriously low man.
Get your Govt to invest more on Air defence.

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## UKBengali

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Whatever you say guys. But BD airforce needa a serious upgrade.Even Myanmar Airforce will eat BD airforce in days let alone Formiddable Indian Airforce. Only proper aircrafts seem to be 8 obb Mig29s and some 18 F7BG. That is seriously low man.
> Get your Govt to invest more on Air defence.



Indian puppets will not go for a proper air force bro.

These are people that recently brought Ming sub's as anything modern would threaten Indian Navy.

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## eastwatch

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> And a bit off topic. Do bengalis have some other Significant political forces other then conventional Bipolar system.
> Like Imran Khan and Tahir ul Qadri in Addition to PMLN and PPP in Pakistan.



No, BD has no other political parties or individuals who can criticize or confront the govt in the Parliament or outside it. BD has the bipolar party system of which BNP seems to be more popular. Jamaat is fond of using religion in politics. The country's future is bleak if such a fundamentalist party ever comes to power because it is not a progressive party. President Ershad's Jatiyo party is a proxy for AL and has little credibility or popularity. 

Politicians of today have no leadership quality. No new leadership nor political parties are coming out of the young generation. Money the only thing that today's potential leaders think about. Nothing else counts to them. Seems every one of them has sold their souls to money and the power associated with it. 

We are progressing well in the economic terms, but we are losing our souls at a faster rate.


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## Zhukov

UKBengali said:


> Indian puppets will not go for a proper air force bro.
> 
> These are people that recently brought Ming sub's as anything modern would threaten Indian Navy.


Funny, But i always thought Bengladesh was an Indian Proxy State and India would do anything to strengthen its ally and its army.


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## khair_ctg

eastwatch said:


> No, BD has no other political parties or individuals who can criticize or confront the govt in the Parliament or outside it. BD has the bipolar party system of which BNP seems to be more popular. Jamaat is fond of using religion in politics. The country's future is bleak if such a fundamentalist party ever comes to power because it is not a progressive party. President Ershad's Jatiyo party is a proxy for AL and has little credibility or popularity.
> 
> Politicians of today have no leadership quality. No new leadership nor political parties are coming out of the young generation. Money the only thing that today's potential leaders think about. Nothing else counts to them. Seems every one of them has sold their souls to money and the power associated with it.
> 
> We are progressing well in the economic terms, but we are losing our souls at a faster rate.


there is no base for you to say who can use Islam where. politics is a fundamental sphere of society. the formation of BD was as a Muslim state where rather a party which does not openly advocate Islam cannot have a legitimate place. the most fundamentalist regressive major party that exists in BD is BAL - BD Awami League. its ideology rests on eradicating Islam and Muslims' heritage from the land as much as possible. according to BAL, a major advancement of that ideology was the 1971 crisis and establishing a crude India-pleasing narrative of that crisis. BAL is a militant organization and acts as an ambassador of India

every day more and more of the market is rife with Indian dumping and more and more Indian commercial and military interests are gripping BD. we are "progressing" ... on India's terms

the difference between an Indian and you is the former supports conquering its enemy country on ludicrous pretexts and knows its interest to suck it dry, and you, support letting that happen as seamlessly as possible

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## BDforever

With the Air Assets of BAF, BD Army, BD Navy & Civil Avn pull.....BD aiming to achieve the capability of deploying her Special Forces Brigade anywhere within the region in 06 hours and anywhere in the world in 48 hours...

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## Allah Akbar

BDforever said:


> With the Air Assets of BAF, BD Army, BD Navy & Civil Avn pull.....BD aiming to achieve the capability of deploying her Special Forces Brigade anywhere within the region in 06 hours and anywhere in the world in 48 hours...
> 
> View attachment 34071


ai bro what about the procurement of 4 extra c -130 . any updates ? i heard the senate approved the deal!


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## BDforever

warrantofficer said:


> ai bro what about the procurement of 4 extra c -130 . any updates ? i heard the senate approved the deal!


deal will be materialized by 2017

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## M_Saint

eastwatch said:


> So, let us hear from you what planes and armaments did that Indian *non-puppet* BNP govt. of BD bought during its two full terms? Also, can you remind us who wanted to sell away the Mig-29s and who made BNS Bangabondhu a naval museum? Would very much like to hear truth from you.


It doesn't matter on how many more arse kicks are given to a shameless liar like U because that wouldn't change cult personality type of URs as numerous of recent past haven't done any good liked Chora na shone dharmer kahini. But for other board members, BNP bought the finest of new F-7's of that time as BG's form unlike used/junk MIGs that was brokered by UR Bharati Mama to get a sweet deal from Ruskies on their MIG-29Ks for carrier. Until, the BNP GOVT re-negotiated and ex-Finnace minister on behalf of GOB paid another chunk of millions, 6 of those UB/UPG junks couldn't even fly for the lack of spare parts. But more importantly, BNP led GOB from ZIa's era planted the seed of fighting spirit that gave BD-MIL victory over Shanti Bahini, which unfortunately got diminished by now. What good would military hardware brings for mercenaries, anyway? BTW, the following is a descriptive saga of the transformation of BD-MIL as mercenaries...


*The Changing Role of Bangladesh Army-1971 to 2014*
*

Col (Rtd) Mahmudur Rahman Choudhury: *The aim of this article is to study the impact of changes on organizations, specifically the Bangladesh Army.
Humans build organizations to fulfill specific needs or purposes or goals or missions (all of these words are used synonymously). So, there are as many varied organizations as there are human needs or purposes. Sometimes an organization is termed an institution when it develops: (1) a hierarchal structure, (2) a set of commonly held values called traditions, (3) a set of rigidly enforced rules and procedures, (4) a more or less clear distribution of power, authority, responsibility and functions, (5) a formalized system of training and education to develop skills of its personnel and finally (6) a formalized system of recruitment, placement and promotions of its personnel. The Army is one such institution within a much greater and complex institution called the State. The Army’s sole purpose is to fight wars successfully. The state as such provides the Army with an absolute monopoly of the use of force and violence in fighting wars; no other state institution has such a responsibility. Of such importance is this function/activity of war-fighting that the Army holds the distinction of being one of the 5 fundamental and primary institutions of the State.
*Changes and Organizations*
In the biological world, of which humans are a part, every organism is considered an organization and changes are inherent, constant and inevitable. These changes take two forms:


(1) Changes within the organism itself. i.e. an organism is born, it grows, decays and then dies. The needs, purpose or goals of the organism – be they human or otherwise- do not change but remain constant. i.e. changes occur in processes but not in content. Such changes are “Incremental”.
(2) A second type of change called mutation occurs from generation to generation. Such mutations invariably lead to enhanced efficiency, optimization and sometimes specialization of the organism concerned. Changes occur in both content and process. Thus over time mutations may lead to totally new organisms with new need, purposes or goals. Humans developed through such mutations from single-cell organisms. Such changes are “Transformational”.
Organizations which humans create are artificial constructs. The changes they go through follow the pattern described above but these changes do not often lead to efficiency, optimization or specialization. In fact “Incremental” changes in organizations often lead to inefficiency, decay and entropy. Sometimes, though “Transformational” changes occur bringing about new needs, purposes or goals, calling forth the creation of entirely new forms of organizations.
Small unconnected changes often occur in organizations to cater to temporary local needs and some ad-hoc structures are created. Over time these changes are institutionalized because these new ad-hoc structures develop strategies and systems; retrain/reeducate personnel in new skills and styles; and develop shared values. The organization now gives a totally different look to what it originally was because both its content and process have changed, often inadvertently. This is shown diagrammatically below:
All this mutation from old to new organization is fine, specifically for private sector business and manufacturing organization/enterprises that are constantly going through such transformations. Such transformations may even be desirable for certain public sector organizations/institutions but not for the Army as we will explain in subsequent paragraphs.

*The Army and Changes*
All these conceptualizations have become too philosophical; let me illustrate all the concepts discussed with an example: The development of the personal computer (PC) and the Internet (net) has brought about global changes, worldwide. New needs or purposes gave rise to entirely new organizations to produce and market the PCs and varied organizations were created to cater to the varied services that the net generated. But a rice dealer in Bangladesh did not drop his business of rice dealing and start dealing in PCs because the need or purpose of dealing in the staple still remained. What the rice dealer did was to use the PC and the net to increase his efficiency, competitiveness and profits. To the rice dealer it was a change in process and not in content; to him it was a change in ways and means not in needs, purposes, goals or missions.
The Army like the rice dealer, caters to the single staple of successful war-fighting. Changes will have to be in ways and means (processes) but not in its goal or mission or purpose (content). Just as a rice dealer will not remain a rice dealer if he brings about or allows a change in the content of his organization, so, similarly an Army will not remain an Army if it brings about or allows a change in its content. Historically this has always been so.
For millenniums the Army fought on foot or on horses with bows, swords and lances. The equipment and weapons (means and ways) were replaced with muskets and cannons; still later with guns, missiles, nuclear ballistic missiles, with tanks and APCs, with submarines and air-craft carriers, with jet fighters, with drones and RPVs, with Satcoms but still armies were required to fight wars successfully. Nobody expected soldiers to become nuclear physicists, rocket engineers or IT system engineers. Everybody expects soldiers to capture that barren hill-top in Afghanistan even if he/she has to die for it. Therefore, the basic question dealing with changes in the Army is: Does this change lead to a change in the mission, goal or purpose of the Army? If it does, than the change ought not to take place.


*Bangladesh Army 1971- 1991*
The Bangladesh Army arose out of the revolutionary need of creating a new state through a war. The nucleus of the Army was formed out of the Bengali military and Para-military personnel who revolted against Pakistan. These were few in numbers and ill-armed and so a citizen guerrilla army was organized which fought a successful war which led to the emergence of Bangladesh on 16 December 1971.
The first change that took place in an independent Bangladesh was the disbandment of the guerrilla army. The Bangladesh Army was thus reduced to three under-manned and under-armed infantry brigades and two artillery batteries with 12 obsolete guns. Those citizens who still wished to bear arms were absorbed in the Police and the para-military Bangladesh Rifles. In February 1972 an entirely new para-military called the Jatiyo Rakkhi Bahini (JRB) was raised, which by the end of 1974 reached the same strength as the Army.
Thus we see the Army fulfilling the purpose of successful war-fighting in 1971. After the war due to a combination of internal and external factors the Army’s role, purpose or goal was not seen in the same light as during the war.
Firstly, the experience of successfully fighting a war with a rapidly raised and organized citizen guerrilla army convinced many that perhaps Bangladesh could dispense with a large conventional army to satisfy its security and defense concerns.
Secondly, the devastated economy of the country precluded any significant financial layout for the Army for at least a decade.
Thirdly, many were of the firm conviction, that surrounded on all sides with a friendly and supportive India and with a 25 Years Peace and Friendship Treaty in place, Bangladesh was extremely unlikely to fight a war in the foreseeable future or indeed face any threat to its territorial integrity. So, there was little necessity of maintaining a large conventional army.
Fourthly, internal security and chaotic law and order conditions could be tackled by well organized, equipped and trained para-military force like the JRB.
The extremely chaotic conditions of the country and the Awami League government’s inability to tackle those led to the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, which belied everything the Nation and the Liberation War stood for. Suddenly and most unexpectedly a portion of the Bangladesh Army revolted, massacring the entire political leadership along with their families. For a year from August 1975, the Country faced a continuous cycle of violence unleashed by the Army until Major General Zia ur Rahman the senior-most, popular and charismatic of the three Liberation War force commanders wrested control and enforced Martial Law. This events significantly altered the Army’s conditions.
From 1976 to 1991 the army rapidly raised 5 infantry divisions and 4 specialized independent brigades; training institutions of every sort were established; logistic installation grounded and cantonments rose in different parts of the country. The Army’s manpower was pegged at 130,000 and it received budget allocation which exceeded 10% of the national budget. The Army was equipped with modern conventional weaponry although not the most up-to-date or the most effective and it trained, round the year, for every seasonal condition. The Army’s officers and soldiers now took pride in their profession of arms.
In 1975, the ethnically different population of the Chittagong Hill Tracts in the south-east of the country started an insurgency. The Army was deployed until gradually 5 brigades were fighting a counter-insurgency war. By the time a peace treat was signed in 1996, the insurgency was destroyed at a significant cost of both soldierly and civilian lives. This counter-insurgency war was the main war-fighting business of the Army during the period.
The two martial law regimes of generals Zia and Ershad pulled the Army into myriad activities under the rubric “Nation-Building”. These tasks included: anti-smuggling; food movement operations to stave off food shortages in various parts of the country; supervision of canal-digging, road constructions and infrastructure development in rural areas of the country; disaster management of periodic floods and cyclones and post-disaster rehabilitation programs; assisting the district administrations in tackling law and order; running martial law courts, which had taken over much of the criminal jurisdiction of the judiciary; and supervising elections at various levels. In fact the Army was running the country. Officers and men, both retired and serving, were seconded to every public organization from the foreign ministry to the civil aviation ministry. Army officers even raised two political parties: Zia ur Rahman’s the Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP) and Ershad’s Jatiyo party. Today the BNP is one of the two major political forces in Bangladesh.
In 1988, a small UN observer mission was sent from Bangladesh to monitor the conclusion of the Iran-Iraq war. These were two Islamic countries and Bangladesh being a member of the Organization of Islamic Countries (OIC) felt that it ought to play some role in the peace-making efforts between the two belligerent states; it would, it was felt, enhance the image of Bangladesh. In 1991 during the first Gulf War Bangladesh sent an infantry brigade for the war sanctioned by the UN. These UN commitments and involvements would in the coming decades significantly alter the complexion of the Bangladesh Army and its personnel.
By 1991, the Army, an organization meant solely for fighting wars, was involved in three different fields:
(1) The Army was administering the country, which appeared to be its chief reason for existence.
(2) It was training for war as and when commitments from its nation-building activities permitted.
(3) It was fighting a counter-insurgency war in the CHT and executing all development activities there from running schools to dispensaries; building roads; and getting the local populace to change their way of life.


*The Bangladesh Army 1991 to 2014*
What the disenfranchised politicians thought of the Bangladesh Army could well be gauged from the mass upsurge which the AL, BNP and Jamat organized in 1991 to oust General Hussain Mohammad Ershad from power. Ershad was ousted and the Army was seen as a major threat to the establishment of democratic dispensation in Bangladesh. Great efforts were exerted to cleanse the civil administration of all military personnel and the Army was told in no uncertain terms to stick to their barracks. The Army’s energies were diverted to UN missions, to disaster management and into a myriad of other activities which were commercial and economic in nature. The government(s) quietly allowed the Army to start operating large business enterprises including banks (Appendix-1 contains a exhaustive list of all economic activities of the Army to date). What affect these economic and commercial activities had on the Army’s organization will be discussed in subsequent paragraphs. By 2014 the Army was so firmly under “civilian” control that officers seeking prize posting and promotion approached politicians rather than their senior officers and mentors.
Nonetheless the Army continued to enjoy a budgetary allocation which was the envy of all other ministries. During the period 1991 to 2014 the Army raised two new divisions and a number of other specialized units and formations besides establishing new training institutions and cantonments. New weapon systems including tanks, artillery guns, anti-tank missiles, anti-aircraft missiles and new communication equipments were inducted into the Army. Plans as of 2014 are underway for raising two further divisions. Many appointments tenable by Lieutenant Colonels about a decade back have been upgraded to Brigadiers. New structures created for various purposes created new vacancies and so new posts and appointments have increased exponentially. Secondment to the Border Guards have increased manifold where new structures have created new posts; and Army personnel are even seconded to the Police in the form of Rapid Action Battalions.
The Impact of Economic Activities on Army Organization
In truth Army’s involvement in certain types of commercial activities is unavoidable because without these activities the Army will cease to function altogether. Besides pay and allowances of personnel, the rest of the Army’s yearly budget is consumed in the procurement of food, clothing, health care, housing (basic needs); procurement of arms, armaments, ordnances and equipment. These commercial activities are in the nature of things ever since modern armies were formed in the 16th century and today every army’s (including the Bangladesh Army’s) organization incorporates these activities in its structures. In and by themselves these commercial activities are very large and significant in terms of the national budget (around 10%), but not in terms of the national economy which caters to the needs of 160 million souls. So, such commercial activities are outside the purview of this article although one could endlessly debate about the justifications and layout of various heads in the Army’s budget.
The Army’s Welfare Directorate under the Adjutant General’s Branch of the Army Headquarters was formed right after the independence of Bangladesh as was the Army Headquarters. The Welfare Directorate’s responsibility is to provide “welfare” to both serving and retired personnel. The term “welfare” is vague and may include any perks and perquisites not provided formally by the Army. This directorate had under its control two commercial organizations: (1) the Canteen Stores Department (CSD) which procures and provides consumer goods at subsidized rates to dependents of both serving and retired personnel and (2) the Sena Kalyan Sangstha (Soldiers’ Welfare Organization) which operates a number of trading and manufacturing enterprises. The Sangstha is manned by a few serving but mostly retired personnel and their dependents. By 2014 these two organizations had mutated into massive commercial enterprises as is shown in *Appendix-1.*
The Military Estate Office (MEO) has under it all the defense services real estates which are spread all over the country. In Dhaka these estates are in prime locations. In 1977, Army officers demanded that they be provided with housing on the justification that they and their dependents had nowhere to live after they retired. Since the Martial Law regime was running the country, it was not difficult to obtain regulations and sanctions to convert some of this military real estate to Defense Officers Housing Society (DOHS). Officers would pay for the land of course, including development and registration charges, but which was nowhere near the real/market value of the land. The MEO’s and CEO’s (Cantonment Executive Officer) offices, both manned by civilians under the MoD, were given the responsibility of implementing and supervising the DOHSs. This task was much beyond their terms of references but regulations were soon changed. The Movement and Quartering Directorate (M&Q) under the Quarter Master’s Generals Branch was given the responsibility to implement and set criterion for allocation plots to officers. The M&Q Directorate is responsible for movement and quartering of all Army units, formations and logistics. As to how distributing housing plots to officers falls within the mission of the M&Q is thus difficult to imagine. In addition the Military Engineering Services (MES) and the Engineers Directorate were given the task of developing the lands.
The above are but two examples of how economic activities affect Army organizations, whose structures were all created to fight wars successfully. These economic activities and the changes which they bring about diminish the Army’s ability to fulfill its purpose, goal or mission. Shown below are four more glaring examples:
(1) UN Missions
UN Missions are for peace-keeping and peace-making as opposed to war-fighting. So, these activities do not directly contribute to the Army’s ability to fight wars. Indirectly, as will be shown later, they are indeed debilitating to a soldier’s ability to successfully engage in combat. UN missions are classed under economic activities because they generate some business (procurement of equipment, vehicles, logistics, transportation etc); contribute significant foreign currency to the exchequer and to the bank accounts of individuals engaged for such missions.
Starting from humble beginnings in 1988, over the last two decades this activity has expanded exponentially. Today, an entire division strength (8 to 10 thousand personnel) is regularly rotated for UN missions. This has led to the creation of the Overseas Operations Directorate (OOD) under the General Staff Branch, headed by a Brigadier, a training center called BIPSOT headed by a Major General, and a New York based liaison office headed by a Brigadier. These organizations and the hundreds of personnel employed there have no war-time functions or indeed any function connected with the fulfillment of the Army’s purpose of war-fighting.
(2) The Army Medical Corps (AMC)
The AMC is supposed to provide medical care to personnel in war and in peace though its battalions and static installations of CMHs. In addition CMHs also provide health-care to dependents and retired personnel. All this is fine but over the last two decades the AMC has developed into a many-headed hydra running a medical college, a large general hospital and two other institutes, all on commercial basis. The AMC has now on its payroll over 1000 officers (a third of the total number of officers in service in the Army) and it has more generals than all supporting arms combined together. One wonders what these two battalion strength of doctors in uniform are going to do in a wartime Army. These officers (doctors) have flourishing private practices in every major private sector hospital in every major district in Bangladesh.. To make possible all these activities, the TO&E (Table of Organization and Equipment) of the AMC had to be radically revised.
(3) Educational Institutions
The Army operates more than 50 educational institutions from primary to university levels, all on a commercial basis. To make this possible TO&Es of Education, Engineers, Signals and EME (Electrical and Mechanical)) directorates had to be changed and new TO&Es had to be made for universities creating vacancies, posts and appointments. Hundreds of personnel employed there have nothing to do with their military profession.
(4) Infrastructure Development
Due to various factors the Army has allowed itself to be drawn into developing national infrastructures of massive proportions. For this a heavy civil engineering organization Special Works Organization) has been formed, radically changing the TO&E of the Corps of Engineers. Army engineers perform function critical to war-fighting: they lay mine-field or get rid of them, they create or destroy fortification, they create or destroy obstacles but above all they enhance mobility or impede the enemy’s and their secondary role is that of infantry. The heavy civil engineering organization does not touch, even remotely, on any of these tasks.
Impact of Economic Activities on Army Personnel
The greatest impact of the Army’s economic activities is on the attitudes, motivation and behavior of its personnel. For example, peace-keeping missions call for restraint, compromise and negotiations – skill which are inimical to soldiering. If a soldier shows restraint in combat or attempts to negotiate and compromise with the enemy, he will face the firing squad, where as these attitudes are likely to lead to praise and rewards in UN Missions.
Personnel come back from UN missions with surplus money which exceeds or equals their entire income of 25 years of military service. Personnel and their dependents then invest these surpluses in various commercial ventures and devote a major portion of their efforts in pursuing those. Army laws and regulation do not permit such activities but since all soldiers, both officers and men, are engaged in such activities the organization simply looks the other way, thus creating a “norm” of acceptance of violations of rules, regulations, values and ethos of military service. Often social problems are created because invariably some become very rich, some remain the same, while others become worse off due to loses in businesses. This creates social tensions between families and within families of military personnel. Moreover, a rich person or at least a well-off person is most unlikely to pay much attention to soldiering, having the means to pursue other, less constraining, means of livelihood. For example, Army doctors who are financially well-off due to their private practices, rarely socialize with run of the mill officers or their families.
Personnel employed in organizations which deal with the Army’s commercial/economic activities soon begin to inculcate the values and loyalties of the organization they work for. For example, personnel employed in educational institution will begin to think and act like masters/teachers; personnel employed in infrastructure development or in real estate development will begin to think and act like civil engineers/contractors. All of these attitudinal, motivational and behavioral changes cannot be handled by periodic rotation of personnel. Rotation spreads these changes to more and more people.
A Critique of “Forces Goal – 2030 for Bangladesh Army”.
Before concluding, I cannot resist the temptation of writing a few sentences about how the Army envisages its future developments which have been documented in a paper titled “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army”.
Firstly, Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army has been classified as “Confidential” thereby restricting access to it to the very few. It ought to have been unclassified or at most “Restricted” and uploaded in the Army’s web-site, so that as many as possible could study it and provide comments, remarks or critiques which would have gone a long way in improving it. Moreover it ought to be remembered that the Army is responsible for providing security and defense for the people and the land against foreign aggression and so the “people” must have a say in how this is done. Besides the “people” provide the money and the manpower for the upkeep and maintenance of the Army and so they have an inherent right to know what is happening to their money and to their soldiers.
Secondly, the paper is titled “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” but what about the Navy and the Air Force. Modern wars since World War-I have all been fought jointly by all three or more services and that too in a highly coordinated manner. So, plans for changes and developments have also got to be done jointly, together, so that each service remains “balanced” and capable of supporting the others. Besides services must be fully aware of each others capabilities and weaknesses, if they are to successfully fight wars. Each service living in a “world” by itself is a very simplistic way at looking at very complex issues and would invariably lead to inter-service tussles for funds and resources, jeopardizing the developments that the services desire so much. Ultimately, when called upon, war-fighting could be disastrous.
Thirdly, although the paper is titled “…Goals…” there are no goals in it. All it contains is a few pages of prosaic platitudes followed by a dozen or so pages of tables showing the raising of different types of units/formations over time extending upto 2030, all of which are nothing more than changes in the Army’s TO&E. The Army’s Staff Duties Directorate could have done a much more through and detailed job of it without so much fan-fare and hype. Analyzing “goals” and expressing them for complex organizations, is I am afraid, a much different exercise, involving a detailed study of geopolitics, geography, politics, economy of not only ones own country but also of the potential adversary’s – all of which is absent from the “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army”. At the end of such an analysis, typically, the “goal” is expressed in a simple form such as: “The Goal of Bangladesh Army in 2030 would be to develop the capability to fight a two front defensive/offensive war against —– . At the tactical level mission would be —–; at the operational level mission would be —-. At the strategic level the purpose of the war would be to secure the geographical, political, social and economic integrity of Bangladesh”. Only after this has been said can one go on to develop the structure for fulfilling the expected capability.
Fourthly, the development in the military follows a specific, logical pattern: doctrine – structuring – equipping/arming – training. The doctrine lays down the goal/ mission/purpose and the ways of achieving that; the structuring, equipping/arming and training provides the means for achieving that. Starting in the middle with structuring is no way to go about bringing changes in the Army. The “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” violates the existing Army and the Joint Warfare doctrines because it fails to indicate in which tier the proposed units/formations would be operating in – tactical, operational or strategic; whether singly or jointly with other services. The key concepts of the existing Army doctrine are: joint warfare, maneuver warfare and conventional war blended with the unconventional but the “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” does not structure these into the developing organization, thereby making the doctrine irrelevant. So, how is the Army going to fight a war where everything of importance remains undefined and vague.
Fifthly, the Army in its preparation of the “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” blind-sided and disregarded everything: geopolitics, geography, politics, finances, and economy. Let me write a few sentences about these.
(1) Geopolitics. The study of geopolitics shows who is a “friend” and who is a “potential adversary” because of geographical and political reasons. Without the identification of an enemy or at least a potential adversary there is no justification or logic of maintaining an Army for a potential war. More importantly for the Army, it is impossible to calculate what capability one needs to develop without a crystal clear idea of what one is up against; of the adversary and his capabilities (I have explained how this is done in an article titled Calculating Combat Capabilities published in the Bangladesh Defense Journal, February 2012). The “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” does not explain who the potential adversary/ adversaries are. So, it raises the basic question: Against whom is this Army going to fight and what for? Other important questions which “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” ought to have addressed are: What is the nature of any future conflicts? What would be the scope and extent of such conflicts? Does Bangladesh face any existential threats from such conflicts? The answers to these three important questions would define how the Army, Navy and Airforce of Bangladesh would need to be developed and structured.
(2) Geography. A single glance at the map of Bangladesh would show its four clear divisions defined by the rivers Brahamaputra/Jamuna falling into the Meghna and the Padma falling into the Meghna. Infact from ancient times, from atleast the 3rd century BC, Bangladesh (East Bengal) had been demarcated into four parts: the ancient Varendra, Vanga, Samatata and Harikela and it is from the Sanskrit word Vanga that Bengal gets its name. What immediately springs to the eyes and mind are the maritime regions of Chittagong and Khulna, which ought to be Maritime Operational Commands, with Army forces for landward defense, placed under operational command of the Maritime Commands. And yet disregarding all this geography the “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” has chosen two points of the compass – east and west – to form two Army Commands. This was done not out of any geographical considerations but to provide employment to Lieutenant Generals lounging around various offices. This whole problem of higher ranks was created by Moinuddin Ahmed, the much detested former Chief of Army Staff, who promoted himself to a General and a couple of his buddies to Lieutenant Generals for no reasons at all, save one of “prestige”.
(3) Economy and Finance. There is not a single mention in the “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” about how much money all these proposed developments are going to cost the country. The Army seems to have simply forgotten that without money nothing gets done, that the citizens provide that money by paying taxes, which the government transforms into yearly budgets, which the Parliament then debates and approves. A complete cost accounting was therefore, mandatory in working out future raisings of units and formations.
The above are but a few of the issues which can be covered in the limited space of this article. In summary, the “Forces Goal-2030 for Bangladesh Army” has been an extremely amateurish, even casual effort. So amateurish, infact that I found it hard to believe that the best brains in the Army could come up with such a “thing”. Perhaps the authors of such a piece of work were constrained by the Terms of Reference; perhaps the tasking authority (the Armed Forces Division) had a political agenda to grind or perhaps the Board of Officers simply did not have the “expertise” to execute such a task. In any case I would suggest that the Army simply “bury” this bit of paper and get on with its job.
*Concluding Remarks*
The economic/commercial activities are not only affecting the Bangladesh Army’s organization and structures but more importantly its personnel. The very fabric of the Army – its morality, its ethics, its traditions, its laws, rules and regulations – is being destroyed by such activities.
All of these activities are good for the economy and society of Bangladesh but the Army’s purpose is not to provide economic and social goods for the Nation but to be ready to fight wars and fight them successfully when needed to preserve the State and its economy and society.
I could destroy the entire logic and justification of these changes/development taking place in the Army by posing two simple questions: (1) why is the Army making such changes? And (2) what contribution are these changes making to the Army’s sole purpose, goal or mission of war-fighting? No amount of logic can justify the Army’s detraction from its purpose, goal or mission.
I am fully aware that writing this article is not going to have any affect whatsoever on the Army or its leadership but I would like to point out that the Army is funded through the taxes of its largely poor citizenry. While the poor citizenry may not be in a position to ask questions, the richer and educated citizens will invariably raise questions about the role of the Army. If the Army is producing economic and social goods and services why are we arming them with arms, armaments and ordnances – all wherewithal for war? Why indeed are we feeding, clothing and housing them? The Army can fund itself through its economic activities and the 10 to 15 percent of our budget, which we spend on the military now, can be employed for more urgent tasks of educating our people, providing them with power, and improving agricultural and industrial productivity. The Army, in my view, is working its way out of any justification for its existence.
*APPENDIX-1
Economic Enterprises/Organizations of the Bangladesh Army*
The Army is involved in a wide variety of commercial/business activities in the private sector, some of which are operated through structures specifically created for them, while others are controlled and operated through modified TO&Es of existing structures. Without a detailed study and analysis, it is difficult to understand the depth and extent of the Army’s economic activities or the contribution of these activities to the national economy and the GDP – I do not have the expertise and the qualifications to do this but I hope that someone with the requisite qualifications would carryout such a study. The findings of such a study may well surprise the parliament, the government and indeed the public! Given below is an exhaustive list of the economic enterprises that the Army operates.
1. The Sena Kalyan Sangstha. The Sangstha operates a dozen or so trading and manufacturing enterprises which market everything from bulbs to bread. It also went into real estate development a few years back.
2. CSD. The CSD operates a chain of super-market type stores throughout Bangladesh in every cantonment providing every type of consumer goods to serving and retired military personnel and in the larger stores civilians can do their shopping too. The CSD runs farms, industrial bakeries, a travel agency, at least two large gas and gasoline filling stations, and a supply and logistic chain which would be the envy of other private sector super-markets.
3. The Trust Bank Ltd. The bank has an affiliated merchant bank as well. This bank has branches in every cantonment and large city of Bangladesh and operates as other private sector commercial banks do.
4. Educational Institutions. The Army operates some 50 or so educational institutions which, beside others, include a dozen cadet colleges, two universities and a medical college. These educational institutions are run on a commercial basis but dependents of military personnel get subsidized rates.
5. Real Estate Development, Infrastructures and Construction.
The MEO disposes of huge real estates and new lands are being continuously acquired all over Bangladesh for expanding cantonments, training areas and new cantonments. Military construction projects are massive and continuous. These are controlled by the MES and Engineers Directorate both under the E-in-C or Engineer-in-Chief (a major general).
The DOHS are also in military lands – presently these are all in Dhaka but others are being developed in Chittagong, Comilla and Savar. The DOHS are controlled by three different organizations: the MEO, the CEO and M&Q Directorate. A few years back a private limited company had been formed to acquire lands for housing in Kaliganj, in the outskirts of Dhaka. A couple of years back, this project ran into severe public ire and anger on rumors of forced acquisition, which led to two deaths and scores of injuries.
A separate Engineers organization (Special Works Organization) is probably operating under the Ministry of Communication for public sector infrastructure development. This organization has already implemented the Haitirjheel and the Mirpur-Airport flyover projects in Dhaka as an independent contractor and has also been given supervisory responsibilities for the Meghna bridge project.
(6) Hospitality and Leisure Industry. The Army has built and leased out a 5-star hotel in Dhaka and is the process of building another one in Chittagong. The Army operates a number of golf courses, including two large ones in Dhaka and one in Chittagong – so far the Army has a monopoly of this golfing business. Besides it also hires out facilities, both to military personnel and civilians, for social functions such as marriages etc.
(7) Other Enterprises.
The Army operates the sole public sector Machine Tools factory (BMTF) in Bangladesh as well as the sole Ordnance factory in Gazipur. The ordnance factory produces small arms and supplies them to the armed forces, the para-military and police. The machine tools factory does diverse jobs including assembling of trucks.
The Army also has controlling stakes in a shoe/lather factory established on BMTF lands and a 50 MW power plant installed on Army land in Postogola on the outskirts of Dhaka.
[PUBLISHED IN BANGLADESH DEFENCE JOURNAL,MARCH 2014 ISSUE]

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## BDforever

Mil Mi 17sh of BAF

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## Allah Akbar

BDforever said:


> Mil Mi 17sh of BAF
> View attachment 34183


the armament is not impressive! all unguided rockets but no heavy cannon or mounted missiles like hellfire!

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## BDforever

warrantofficer said:


> the armament is not impressive! all unguided rockets but no heavy cannon or mounted missiles like hellfire!


not installed but it can carry

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## eastwatch

khair_ctg said:


> there is no base for you to say who can use Islam where. politics is a fundamental sphere of society. the formation of BD was as a Muslim state where rather a party which does not openly advocate Islam cannot have a legitimate place. the most fundamentalist regressive major party that exists in BD is BAL - BD Awami League. its ideology rests on eradicating Islam and Muslims' heritage from the land as much as possible. according to BAL, a major advancement of that ideology was the 1971 crisis and establishing a crude India-pleasing narrative of that crisis. BAL is a militant organization and acts as an ambassador of India



Islam or any religion is your personal faith. BD or even Pakistan was not created to stoning women to death or cutting one's hands for petty stealing. Go to SA to get your Islamic society in work although the Saudi Arabian themselves remain thieves, who do not want to pay salaries to their foreign muslim employees in due time.

BD's future lies with the progressive creation of a State whereby the old standards are discarded and new/better ones are introduced. You cannot suggest Hindus should re-introduce SatiDaho and Muslims should introduce all those old orthodox mindset. 

Better we discard bad old things and introduce good new values. Do not any more depend on the old books written for a very old world..


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## khair_ctg

eastwatch said:


> Islam or any religion is your personal faith. BD or even Pakistan was not created to stoning women to death or cutting one's hands for petty stealing. Go to SA to get your Islamic society in work although the Saudi Arabian themselves remain thieves, who do not want to pay salaries to their foreign muslim employees in due time.
> 
> BD's future lies with the progressive creation of a State whereby the old standards are discarded and new/better ones are introduced. You cannot suggest Hindus should re-introduce SatiDaho and Muslims should introduce all those old orthodox mindset.
> 
> Better we discard bad old things and introduce good new values. Do not any more depend on the old books written for a very old world..


How to stop persecution of religious minorities in Bangladesh? | Page 7


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## Windjammer

*Alan Warnes* @warnesyworld · 9h
Bangladesh. AF has K-8s on order. Will be based at Jessore and replace L-39ZAs. TLIAFM

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## BDforever

Windjammer said:


> *Alan Warnes* @warnesyworld · 9h
> Bangladesh. AF has K-8s on order. Will be based at Jessore and replace L-39ZAs. TLIAFM


i said it 6 months ago but no one listened


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## Nike

BDforever said:


> not installed but it can carry



How it can carry guided missile when they doesn't have guided weapon package


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## BDforever

madokafc said:


> How it can carry guided missile when they doesn't have guided weapon package


yes they have


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## Nike

Well i read in some sections in Janes, your Mi-17 doesn't have guided weapon package support. But maybe i am wrong


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## PoKeMon

BDforever said:


> yes they have



Which one?

Ataka ATGM is generally used on Mi17sh.


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## BDforever

IND_PAK said:


> Ataka ATGM is generally used on Mi17sh.


yes same one



madokafc said:


> Well i read in some sections in Janes, your Mi-17 doesn't have guided weapon package support. But maybe i am wrong


our Mi17 do not have but Mi171sh have


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## Nike

well i am mixed up then

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## PoKeMon

BDforever said:


> yes same one
> 
> 
> our Mi17 do not have but Mi171sh have



I dont think Ataka or shturm is operated by Bangladesh. Can you provide any link saying you will get these two with Mi171sh?

AFAIK army operate HJ-8, Kornet and Metis.


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## BDforever

IND_PAK said:


> I dont think Ataka or shturm is operated by Bangladesh. Can you provide any link saying you will get these two with Mi171sh?
> 
> AFAIK army operate HJ-8, Kornet and Metis.


no link, bd uses Mi171sh as armed helo


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## PoKeMon

BDforever said:


> no link, bd uses Mi171sh as armed helo



Mi171sh are combat transport helos. The question is BD is equipped with unguided rockets and canon or with Ataka ATGM (unlikely)?


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## BDforever

IND_PAK said:


> Mi171sh are combat transport helos. The question is BD is equipped with unguided rockets and canon or with Ataka ATGM (unlikely)?


all of them that is why it cost bd high, about $17 million each helo, about $2 million extra


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## PoKeMon

BDforever said:


> all of them that is why it cost bd hight about $17 million each helo



Whats your source of claim?


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## BDforever

IND_PAK said:


> Whats your source of claim?


my good intel source


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## PoKeMon

BDforever said:


> my good intel source



Bhag yaha se.....

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## BDforever

IND_PAK said:


> Bhag yaha se.....

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## Allah Akbar

IND_PAK said:


> Bhag yaha se.....


bd mil don't share or disclose every matters in public or new conference ! BDforever probably right!


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## PoKeMon

warrantofficer said:


> bd mil don't share or disclose every matters in public or new conference ! BDforever probably right!



No he is not. This is not something one would like to keep secret. If not by BDesh, Russian sources must have written about selling any guided ATGM to BAF.

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## BDforever

IND_PAK said:


> No he is not. This is not something one would like to keep secret. If not by BDesh, Russian sources must have written about selling any guided ATGM to BAF.


no they don't. I don't know what makes you feel better to believe that BAF helo does not have ATGM


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

IND_PAK said:


> No he is not. This is not something one would like to keep secret. If not by BDesh, Russian sources must have written about selling any guided ATGM to BAF.


Russian sources are also pretty secretive..... they had been like that for most of their history...... only recently they've learned how to share something in public..... think about this - there was no official confirmation that Russia ever sold Kh-35 anti-ship missiles to Myanmar.... but we now know they did....


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## PoKeMon

BDforever said:


> no they don't. I don't know what makes you feel better to believe that BAF helo does not have ATGM



Are 2-3 helos mai aa bhi gai to kya hoga?? Its just we should present the facts right.

Actually I want BAF to maintain atleast 5 sqd of 4th gen fighter and 20 combat helos.



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> Russian sources are also pretty secretive..... they had been like that for most of their history...... only recently they've learned how to share something in public..... think about this - there was no official confirmation that Russia ever sold Kh-35 anti-ship missiles to Myanmar.... but we now know they did....



I am willing to accept that you guys get Ataka ATGMs and I would be happy to know but then we need atleast an iota of hint/proof to believe so. Right now its all in the air.

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## razgriz19

Informant said:


> Werent there report before hand? I REFUSE to believe it. This is incompetency at it's best. There would have been meteorological reports regarding it. Come on!


Go ask the Japs, what they were doing when the tsunami hit destroyed a whole squadron of F-2 fighters ($125 million a copy in today's dollars)
Maybe you will find the answer from them.

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## BDforever

IND_PAK said:


> Are 2-3 helos mai aa bhi gai to kya hoga?? Its just we should present the facts right.
> 
> Actually I want BAF to maintain atleast 5 sqd of 4th gen fighter and 20 combat helos.
> .


BAF has 9 Mi171sh, 5 more on order. 

I am going to give you a heart attack, you will see new 160 fighter air-crafts by 2025 in BAF's inventory

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## Informant

razgriz19 said:


> Go ask the Japs, what they were doing when the tsunami hit destroyed a whole squadron of F-2 fighters ($125 million a copy in today's dollars)
> Maybe you will find the answer from them.



If you dont know the difference between a Tsunami and a Typhoon, please butt out.


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## Allah Akbar

BDforever said:


> BAF has 9 Mi171sh, 5 more on order.
> 
> I am going to give you a heart attack, you will see new 160 fighter air-crafts by 2025 in BAF's inventory


I don't know if we can able to see those 160 fighters in 2025 . I am 34 now and by all those formalin mixed food i wont survive till 2025 . and we will operate probably su 35 when other AF will operate PAK 50 or JSF 35 :lol

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## kalu_miah

What we should go for are J-31 and later export versions of J-20.


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## BDforever

blueaxe_101 said:


> Why not join the program?


money problem


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## kalu_miah

blueaxe_101 said:


> Why not join the program?



Indian puppet Hasina didi will not get permission from India.

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## UKBengali

kalu_miah said:


> Indian puppet Hasina didi will not get permission from India.



Any type of weapons that poses any threat to Indian army, air-force or navy will not be allowed.

Some BD members keep saying that BD needs trainers first before purchasing fighters are not thinking logically. The question is why has it taken so long for the trainers to be purchased in the first place and why purchase two types of trainers when the YAK-130 and the current light trainers will suffice? The answer must lie that the Awami League, on the instructions of their Indian masters, will be spending the decade with the procurement of trainers and so keep BD defenceless against Indian or even Myanmar air-attack.

Best course of action is let the BD military stay weak and once Indian domination is over and Awami League kicked out, with a hopefully much better economy, a crash 10 year program can be put in place to procure large numbers of platforms from China

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## kalu_miah

UKBengali said:


> Any type of weapons that poses any threat to Indian army, air-force or navy will not be allowed.
> 
> Some BD members keep saying that BD needs trainers first before purchasing fighters are not thinking logically. The question is why has it taken so long for the trainers to be purchased in the first place and why purchase two types of trainers when the YAK-130 and the current light trainers will suffice? The answer must lie that the Awami League, on the instructions of their Indian masters, will be spending the decade with the procurement of trainers and so keep BD defenceless against Indian or even Myanmar air-attack.
> 
> Best course of action is let the BD military stay weak and once Indian domination is over and Awami League kicked out, with a hopefully much better economy, a crash 10 year program can be put in place to procure large numbers of platforms from China



Indeed, in the meantime Chinese engines will get mature and replace all Russian engines hopefully.

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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Any type of weapons that poses any threat to Indian army, air-force or navy will not be allowed.
> 
> Some BD members keep saying that BD needs trainers first before purchasing fighters are not thinking logically. The question is why has it taken so long for the trainers to be purchased in the first place and why purchase two types of trainers when the YAK-130 and the current light trainers will suffice? The answer must lie that the Awami League, on the instructions of their Indian masters, will be spending the decade with the procurement of trainers and so keep BD defenceless against Indian or even Myanmar air-attack.
> 
> Best course of action is let the BD military stay weak and once Indian domination is over and Awami League kicked out, with a hopefully much better economy, a crash 10 year program can be put in place to procure large numbers of platforms from China



1. Yak corporation already has more orders before Bangladesh.
2. Bangladeshi version will be strike capable which is new for Yak 130 kind
3. ever heard about difference between advance trainer lead in figher trainer ?

you guys don't have single knowledge about military stuff, only do is political vomiting everywhere.
if you do not know, at least ask and shout your mouth

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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> 1. Yak corporation already has more orders before Bangladesh.
> 2. Bangladeshi version will be strike capable which is new for Yak 130 kind
> 3. ever heard about advance trainer difference lead in figher trainer ?
> 
> you guys don't have single knowledge about military stuff, only do is political vomiting everywhere.
> if you do not know, at least ask and shout your mouth



Blah, blah, blah etc.

Only BD needs to spend the whole decade purchasing trainers while other countries seem to have no problem purchasing both trainers and modern fighters at the same time? Money should not affect the issue as BD can have already gone for maybe only 2 squadrons of fighters to lessen the burden on the exchequer.

BD is not an air-force that has no experience with 4th generation fighters either as it has 8 Mig-29s. BD could have purchased Mig-29s and that would not be a massive training burden as it is used to the platform.

Answer this: Why did Awami League purchase 1950s vintage Ming-subs? I suppose again for training!

@kalu_miah : This is the mentality of some BD posters here.



kalu_miah said:


> Indeed, in the meantime Chinese engines will get mature and replace all Russian engines hopefully.



Don't listen to Western and Indian detractors.

All new-build J-11B have WS-10A. The J-16 used the WS-10A through the whole of it's testing program and production aircraft only use WS-10A.

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## kalu_miah

UKBengali said:


> Blah, blah, blah etc.
> 
> Only BD needs to spend the whole decade purchasing trainers while other countries seem to have no problem purchasing both trainers and modern fighters at the same time? Money should not affect the issue as BD can have already gone for maybe only 2 squadrons of fighters to lessen the burden on the exchequer.
> 
> BD is not an air-force that has no experience with 4th generation fighters either as it has 8 Mig-29s. BD could have purchased Mig-29s and that would not be a massive training burden as it is used to the platform.
> 
> Answer this: Why did Awami League purchase 1950s vintage Ming-subs? I suppose again for training!
> 
> @kalu_miah : This is the mentality of some BD posters here.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't listen to Western and Indian detractors.
> 
> All new-build J-11B have WS-10A. The J-16 used the WS-10A through the whole of it's testing program and production aircraft only use WS-10A.



I love it when Bharat Desh Forever starts showing off his "military knowledge".


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Blah, blah, blah etc.
> 
> Only BD needs to spend the whole decade purchasing trainers while o*ther countries seem to have no problem purchasing both trainers and modern fighters at the same time*? Money should not affect the issue as BD can have already gone for maybe only 2 squadrons of fighters to lessen the burden on the exchequer.
> 
> BD is not an air-force that has no experience with 4th generation fighters either as it has 8 Mig-29s. BD could have purchased Mig-29s and that would not be a massive training burden as it is used to the platform.
> 
> Answer this: Why did Awami League purchase 1950s vintage Ming-subs? I suppose again for training!


1. bold part: which country and what is its purchase ?
2. Mig29s . are you kidding me ? a old platform you wanna buy again ? you are embarrassing yourself



kalu_miah said:


> I love it when Bharat Desh Forever starts showing off his "military knowledge".


and i love it when al-aqaeda kala mia starts showing off his terrorism knowledge lol


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## FNFAL

Bangladeshi aspirations to challenge IAF..how cute
Instead bagladeshis should foucs on countering a a very assertive and powerful burma.


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## BDforever

FNFAL said:


> Bangladeshi aspirations to challenge IAF..how cute
> Instead bagladeshis should foucs on countering a a very assertive and powerful burma.


how cute indian supa powa, go feed your hungry people and make some toilet


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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> 1. bold part: which country and what is its purchase ?
> 2. Mig29s . are you kidding me ? a old platform you wanna buy again ? you are embarrassing yourself
> 
> 
> and i love it when al-aqaeda kala mia starts showing off his terrorism knowledge lol



Answer this question:

Awami League has been in power for 5 years and we still do not have the trainers that they say we need to be able to progress to buying fighters. What have they been doing all this time?

Mig-29 was just a suggestion since BD already operates the type. The best fighter would be Su-30 as it would be good for both air-defence and strike. J-10B would be another option but China may not sell and the WS-10A engine is not quite yet ready.

 At the least the trainers should be procured by now and a order for 2 squadrons for Su-30 should have already been pencilled in with definite delivery timetable.


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## FNFAL

BDforever said:


> how cute indian supa powa, go feed your hungry people and make some toilet


No toilets for illegal bdeshis.

OT: What is Bdesh doing to counter burma??Any new induction of Ground support AF?


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## kalu_miah

BDforever said:


> 1. bold part: which country and what is its purchase ?
> 2. Mig29s . are you kidding me ? a old platform you wanna buy again ? you are embarrassing yourself
> 
> 
> and i love it when al-aqaeda kala mia starts showing off his terrorism knowledge lol



I must have hit a nerve there, the moron Awami showing its true colors, calling any one opposing their Bharat mata a terrorist. Go ahead keep calling me Al Qaeda and thinking that it will make a difference, pathetic low life.

And what is wrong with being Kala, most Bangladeshi's are Kala, so are most of your Bharat Mata people, are you insulting dark skinned people?


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Answer this question:
> 
> Awami League has been in power for 5 years and we still do not have the trainers that they say we need to be able to progress to buying fighters. What have they been doing all this time?
> 
> Mig-29 was just a suggestion since BD already operates the type. The best fighter would be Su-30 as it would good for both air-defence and strike. J-10B would be another option but China may not sell and the WS-10A engine is not quite yet ready.
> 
> At the least the trainers should be procured by now and a order for 2 squadrons for Su-30 should have already been pencilled in with definite delivery timetable.


i do not know about AL, but here is military info.
1. su30 will be expensive for us, Mig 35 will be only option but it only become operational from last year.
2. BD AF requested to get yak this year but Russia denied that because it has more order on line.
3. BD pilot flied J10s and it did not impress pilots. 



kalu_miah said:


> I must have hit a nerve there, the moron Awami showing its true colors, calling any one opposing their Bharat mata a terrorist. Go ahead keep calling me Al Qaeda and thinking that it will make a difference, pathetic low life.
> 
> And what is wrong with being Kala, most Bangladeshi's are Kala, so are most of your Bharat Mata people, are you insulting dark skinned people?











FNFAL said:


> No toilets for illegal bdeshis.
> 
> OT: What is Bdesh doing to counter burma??Any new induction of Ground support AF?


forget about bdeshis , you don't have your own LOL
OT: non of your business


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## FNFAL

BDforever said:


> OT: non of your business


WHy?


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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> i do not know about AL, but here is military info.
> 1. su30 will be expensive for us, Mig 35 will be only option but it only become operational from last year.
> 2. BD AF requested to get yak this year but Russia denied that because it has more order on line.
> 3. BD pilot flied J10s and it did not empress pilots.



BD pilots have not flown J-10B which is much more advanced fighter than J-10A.

Su-30 is expensive but you get what you pay for. We are looking at 60-70 million for a plane. 24 units should come to around 1.5 billion dollars which BD's 180 billion dollar economy growing at over 6% a year can afford.

For BD it will be the ideal aircraft as it could both defend BD against air-attack and has the range and weapons load to provide air-cover to the BD Navy in the Bay of Bengal. It could also be employed in anti-ship attack far out in the Bay of Bengal.


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## kalu_miah

@BDforever I thought so, you had nothing to reply except for one of your meaningless memes. Anyway I should ignore morons like you like most Indians.


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> BD pilots have not flown J-10B which is much more advanced fighter than J-10A.
> 
> Su-30 is expensive but you get what you pay for. We are looking at 60-70 million for a plane.


you wanna buy $60-70million aircraft 

how about $30-32million, 48 Mig35 with AESA radar+ thrust vector etc tech 



kalu_miah said:


> @BDforever I thought so, you had nothing to reply except for one of your meaningless memes. Anyway I should ignore morons like you like most Indians.


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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> you wanna buy $60-70million aircraft
> 
> how about $30-32million, 48 Mig35 with AESA radar+ thrust vector etc tech




In an ideal world, BD would have both heavy and light fighters. BD is short of cash and will have to select one type.

SU-30 would be better than Mig-35 as it has longer loiter time and weapons load. Simply it is more versatile. Mig-35 is OK but it has its limitations and BD needs an aircraft that can be used in the Bay of Bengal as well.

With BDs rapidly growing economy maybe 48 SU-30s can be purchased if the Russians offer good payment terms.


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> In an ideal world, BD would have both heavy and light fighters. BD is short of cash and will have to select one type.
> 
> SU-30 would be better than Mig-35 as it has longer loiter time and weapons load. Simply it is more versatile. Mig-35 is OK but it has its limitations and BD needs an aircraft that can be used in the Bay of Bengal as well.
> 
> With BDs rapidly growing economy maybe 48 SU-30s can be purchased if the Russians offer good payment terms.


BD can not afford su30 with latest weapons right now, Mig 35's maintenance cost also lower than Su30.
Mig 35 is better for dog fight than su30. BD has different plan for BoB


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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> BD can not afford su30 with latest weapons right now, Mig 35's maintenance cost also lower than Su30.
> Mig 35 is better for dog fight than su30. BD has different plan for BoB



What is the plan for BoB?


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> What is the plan for BoB?


dedicated a squadron fighter aircraft, candidate: J10c which is under development or Su30mk2 and it will be under Navy wing, not airforce

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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> dedicated a squadron fighter aircraft, candidate: J10c which is under development or Su30mk2 and it will be under Navy wing, not airforce



Why not just buy SU-30 only as that can also be used for air force?

No point increasing logistics with two different types. What you save with buying Mig-35 you would lose with paying for maintenance of two different types of platforms.


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Why not just buy SU-30 only as that can also be used for air force?
> 
> No point increasing logistics with two different types. What you save with buying Mig-35 you would lose with paying for maintenance of two different types of platforms.


airforce will maintain big number of fighter aircrafts, Navy will not.
cost+maintenance are considered here.
Mig 35 requires 2.5 times low maintenance cost than Mig29. Su30's maintenance cost is high
with yak 130 training, you can fly mig35, su30, su35, even 5th gen fighters and other western countries' aircrafts


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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> airforce will maintain big number of fighter aircrafts, Navy will not.
> cost+maintenance are considered here.
> Mig 35 requires 2.5 times low maintenance cost than Mig29. Su30's maintenance cost is high
> with yak 130 training, you can fly mig35, su30, su35, even 5th gen fighters and other western countries' aircrafts



Well BD needs to order planes now. At this rate no fighters will be delivered this decade.


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Well BD needs to order planes now. At this rate no fighters will be delivered this decade.


i do not want to say more.
just one thing: a big surprise is coming


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## aliaselin

BDforever said:


> i do not want to say more.
> just one thing: a big surprise is coming


When and where?

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## BDforever

aliaselin said:


> When and where?


next year about Air force


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## aliaselin

BDforever said:


> next year about Air force


I guess Mig-35 from Russia

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## BDforever

aliaselin said:


> I guess Mig-35 from Russia


something more

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## SarthakGanguly

BDforever said:


> i do not want to say more.
> just one thing: a big surprise is coming


you are getting Tejas right?

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## BDforever

SarthakGanguly said:


> you are getting Tejas right?


heheehehe desperate to market tejas

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## aliaselin

BDforever said:


> something more


if BD said wanting to buy a squadron of J-31, SAC would be very happy

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## UKBengali

aliaselin said:


> if BD said wanting to buy a squadron of J-31, SAC would be very happy



When J-31 becomes ready for general export in the mid 2020s, BD is sure to be one of the first customers.

Just make sure you can build them fast enough to not keep the customers waiting too long!

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## SarthakGanguly

BDforever said:


> heheehehe desperate to market tejas


Good plane, good plane. Please buy it.

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## fallen_soldier

BDforever said:


> something more


My guess is Su-35

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## BDforever

fallen_soldier said:


> My guess is Su-35


 well here is half info: TOT

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## Allah Akbar

FNFAL said:


> No toilets for illegal bdeshis.
> 
> OT: What is Bdesh doing to counter burma??Any new induction of Ground support AF?


Hey sanitation is a huge problem in India . It's not about trolling ! In uttar pradesh women go raped and hanged in trees cause they went for call of nature in open fields at night . You also know that ! And yeah bd is focusing her social security status ,not just buying amry hardwares like you do ! you and we make the differs here


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## FNFAL

warrantofficer said:


> Hey sanitation is a huge problem in India . It's not about trolling ! In uttar pradesh women go raped and hanged in trees cause they went for call of nature in open fields at night . You also know that ! And yeah bd is focusing her social security status ,not just buying amry hardwares like you do ! you and we make the differs here


huh?


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## extra terrestrial

BDforever said:


> well here is half info: TOT



If true, it's a big, big news.

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## kalu_miah

PLA's J-10C may be able to match US and EU counterparts｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
China believes PLAAF’s J-10C fighter may be able to surpass U.S. and European counterparts | global aviation report
PLA's J-10C may be able to surpass US and EU counterparts

I would like to see Bangladesh buying J10B (FC20 export version) or the more advanced J10C. Mig35 and Su35 are good planes, but due to twin engines, operating and maintenance cost are probably higher. Russia also has terrible records of after sales service, Chinese are better in this regard.

Besides Russian technology will soon loose out to fast evolving Chinese technology, so in the long term Bangladesh would be using exclusively Chinese fighters with Chinese built engines. So we might as well start buying small quantity of Chinese built fighters lets say J10B (FC20) and then buy larger quantity of J10C newer model, when it becomes available. 5th generation J31 and J20 models should be the next steps, as and when they become available to purchase for Bangladesh.

Yak130 should be our last Russian built planes.


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## Allah Akbar

SarthakGanguly said:


> Good plane, good plane. Please buy it.


hey Tejas isn't bad ! i could buy Tejas if you transfer tech and assemble here with our Chinese technical helps

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## aliaselin

kalu_miah said:


> PLA's J-10C may be able to match US and EU counterparts｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
> China believes PLAAF’s J-10C fighter may be able to surpass U.S. and European counterparts | global aviation report
> PLA's J-10C may be able to surpass US and EU counterparts
> 
> I would like to see Bangladesh buying J10B (FC20 export version) or the more advanced J10C. Mig35 and Su35 are good planes, but due to twin engines, operating and maintenance cost are probably higher. Russia also has terrible records of after sales service, Chinese are better in this regard.
> 
> Besides Russian technology will soon loose out to fast evolving Chinese technology, so in the long term Bangladesh would be using exclusively Chinese fighters with Chinese built engines. So we might as well start buying small quantity of Chinese built fighters lets say J10B (FC20) and then buy larger quantity of J10C newer model, when it becomes available. 5th generation J31 and J20 models should be the next steps, as and when they become available to purchase for Bangladesh.
> 
> Yak130 shoul.d be our last Russian built planes.



Production capacity is a big problem. This is why I don't think BD will order J-10 in next two years.

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## Alif

BDforever said:


> well here is half info: TOT


Wallah? i thought i'd never get to see those birds in our colours! let alone ToT in my lifetime. Well i shall remind u of this post sometime in 2015 again. Just incase.

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## UKBengali

kalu_miah said:


> PLA's J-10C may be able to match US and EU counterparts｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
> China believes PLAAF’s J-10C fighter may be able to surpass U.S. and European counterparts | global aviation report
> PLA's J-10C may be able to surpass US and EU counterparts
> 
> I would like to see Bangladesh buying J10B (FC20 export version) or the more advanced J10C. Mig35 and Su35 are good planes, but due to twin engines, operating and maintenance cost are probably higher. Russia also has terrible records of after sales service, Chinese are better in this regard.
> 
> Besides Russian technology will soon loose out to fast evolving Chinese technology, so in the long term Bangladesh would be using exclusively Chinese fighters with Chinese built engines. So we might as well start buying small quantity of Chinese built fighters lets say J10B (FC20) and then buy larger quantity of J10C newer model, when it becomes available. 5th generation J31 and J20 models should be the next steps, as and when they become available to purchase for Bangladesh.
> 
> Yak130 should be our last Russian built planes.



I would prefer if Awami League only brought enough Russian planes to be able to match Myanmar air force. They won't be very effective against India as the Russians cannot be trusted to not give the secrets to India.

Buy only some small quantity of planes this decade, say 24-36, then hopefully with Awami League out of the way next decade, BD uses its far richer economy by then to put in a massive order for 100 J-31 stealth fighters.The quantity and sophistication of these J-31s would completely neutralise the Indian airforce near BD.

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## arp2041

UKBengali said:


> I would prefer if Awami League only brought enough Russian planes to be able to match Myanmar air force. They won't be very effective against India as the Russians cannot be trusted to not give the secrets to India.
> 
> Buy only some small quantity of planes this decade, say 24-36, then hopefully with Awami League out of the way next decade, BD uses its far richer economy by then to put in a massive order for 100 J-31 stealth fighters.The quantity and sophistication of these J-31s *would completely neutralise the Indian airforce near BD.*



I simply LOVE your spirit...............NEUTRALIZE IAF!!!!   

as though if Russians won't have given secrets to India BAF would have been the top AF in South Asia


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## UKBengali

arp2041 said:


> I simply LOVE your spirit...............NEUTRALIZE IAF!!!!
> 
> as though if Russians won't have given secrets to India BAF would have been the top AF in South Asia



I did say neutralise Indian air force near BD and not the whole of the Indian air force.

50 per cent of IAF would be facing Pa!istan and some near China as well.

If next decade BD can get 100 J-31s from China, the Indian air force that is facing BD can be countered.


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## PoKeMon

UKBengali said:


> I did say neutralise Indian air force near BD and not the whole of the Indian air force.
> 
> 50 per cent of IAF would be facing Pa!istan and some near China as well.
> 
> If next decade BD can get 100 J-31s from China, the Indian air force that is facing BD can be countered.



IAF invading you guys?

Dont create enemies out of butts.


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## UKBengali

IND_PAK said:


> IAF invading you guys?
> 
> Dont create enemies out of butts.



Every country needs a decent military.

By next decade the perfect conditions would be on place for BD to create a serious military:

1. Poverty virtually wiped out.

2. Economy able to support the purchase of large quantities of advanced weapons.

3. China would be ready and willing to supply BD with advanced weapons like J-31 fighter.


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## arp2041

UKBengali said:


> Every country needs a decent military.
> 
> By next decade the perfect conditions would be on place for BD to create a serious military:
> 
> 1. Poverty virtually wiped out.
> 
> 2. Economy able to support the purchase of large quantities of advanced weapons.
> 
> 3. China would be ready and willing to supply BD with advanced weapons like J-31 fighter.



4. BD is the new Supa Powa of the world with it's military spread all over the world


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## PoKeMon

UKBengali said:


> Every country needs a decent military.
> 
> By next decade the perfect conditions would be on place for BD to create a serious military:
> 
> 1. Poverty virtually wiped out.
> 
> 2. Economy able to support the purchase of large quantities of advanced weapons.
> 
> 3. China would be ready and willing to supply BD with advanced weapons like J-31 fighter.



You dont need to neutralize an imaginary army to build your army.

And in next decade the imaginary army would have attain newer heights.


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## UKBengali

arp2041 said:


> 4. BD is the new Supa Powa of the world with it's military spread all over the world



Would you like to make some serious points for once rather than trolling?



IND_PAK said:


> You dont need to neutralize an imaginary army to build your army.
> 
> And in next decade the imaginary army would have attain newer heights.



Today BD has 8 old Mig-29s and India has 300 SU-30/ Mirage 200 and Mig-29.

Next decade if BD has 50 mig 29/35 and 100 J-31s, then it would provide some fight to whatever Indian air force has by then.

BD has no wish to fight India but it needs to be ready for any eventuality.


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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> you wanna buy $60-70million aircraft
> 
> how about $30-32million, 48 Mig35 with AESA radar+ thrust vector etc tech
> 
> 
> View attachment 35069



J-10B estimated price is 40M-45M reasonable, it is not about AESA/thrust vector and whatever, China is reliable when it comes to spares, modernization and rectification of any faults, russian are notorious. Also China is ahead in AESA game compared to russians.

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## extra terrestrial

arp2041 said:


> 4. BD is the new Supa Powa of the world with it's military spread all over the world



Nope.

4. India disintegrated into 30 independent states.

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## UKBengali

Luftwaffe said:


> J-10B estimated price is 40M-45M reasonable, it is not about AESA/thrust vector and whatever, China is reliable when it comes to spares, modernization and rectification of any faults, russian are notorious. Also China is ahead in AESA game compared to russians.




BD may decide to skip J-10B altogether and buy J-31 next decade.

I have a feeling that the Awami League government will spend the current funds on buying Russian planes - probably Mig-35.


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## Luftwaffe

UKBengali said:


> Next decade if BD has 50 mig 29/35 and 100 J-31s, then it would provide some fight to whatever Indian air force has by then.



Keeping a small relevant highly modern Air Force is ideal but still if Project 301/J-31 ever makes it to production BAF can't afford 100, maintaining stealth aircraft is costly affair post 2025 small batches and eventually ending up with couple of squadrons is possible but again it would take toll on BAF Budget.


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## arp2041

UKBengali said:


> Would you like to make some serious points for once rather than trolling?
> 
> Today BD has 8 old Mig-29s and India has 300 SU-30/ Mirage 200 and Mig-29.
> 
> Next decade if BD has 50 mig 29/35 and *100 J-31s*, then it would provide some fight to whatever Indian air force has by then.
> 
> BD has no wish to fight India but it needs to be ready for any eventuality.



Chk your nos. & than ask me to get SERIOUS!!!  

Will your brother China give it for FREE??? you have not have total 100 nos. in fighters even after 40 years but the next decade will bring a MIRACLE!!! 



extra terrestrial said:


> Nope.
> 
> 4. India disintegrated into 30 independent states.



No Bhangra Desh just got drowned in BoB!!!

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## UKBengali

Luftwaffe said:


> Keeping a small relevant highly modern Air Force is ideal but still if Project 301/J-31 ever makes it to production BAF can't afford 100, maintaining stealth aircraft is costly affair post 2025 small batches and eventually ending up with couple of squadrons is possible but again it would take toll on BAF Budget.



Why do you say that BD cannot afford 100 J-31s?

BD economy is already 180 billion dollars and projected to grow 6-7% a year till 2030.

BD defence budget, when taking arms imports, is OK at 2% of GDP.

If BD orders J-31 then deliveries are likely to to take place between 2025-2030. Payments would stretch during the delivery phase. Once payments have ceased then the money would be avaible to maintain them.

BD can afford 100 J-31 as it would have only maybe 50 other fighters in its airforce.


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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> J-10B estimated price is 40M-45M reasonable, it is not about AESA/thrust vector and whatever, China is reliable when it comes to spares, modernization and rectification of any faults, russian are notorious. Also China is ahead in AESA game compared to russians.


yes it is about AESA/thrust vector issue, those are new techs. and what did you say ? china is ahead in AESA ? any reference to claim ?  china is still working on AESA


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## UKBengali

arp2041 said:


> Chk your nos. & than ask me to get SERIOUS!!!
> 
> Will your brother China give it for FREE??? you have not have total 100 nos. in fighters even after 40 years but the next decade will bring a MIRACLE!!!



Apart from maybe 50 other fourth generation fighters, BD would need to buy and maintain the 100 J-31s only.

Deliveries will probably take place between 2025-2030. At projected growth rate, BD economy is likely to grow to 500 billion dollars in 2030 in today's money.


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## extra terrestrial

arp2041 said:


> No Bhangra Desh just got drowned in BoB!!!



How's it perfect condition of BD???? You're missing the plot Bimaru.


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Why do you say that BD cannot afford 100 J-31s?
> 
> BD economy is already 180 billion dollars and projected to grow 6-7% a year till 2030.
> 
> BD defence budget, when taking arms imports, is OK at 2% of GDP.
> 
> If BD orders J-31 then deliveries are likely to to take place between 2025-2030. Payments would stretch during the delivery phase. Once payments have ceased then the money would be avaible to maintain them.
> 
> BD can afford 100 J-31 as it would have only maybe 50 other fighters in its airforce.


BD economy is not 180 billion, it is 160 billion. correct yourself


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## extra terrestrial

BDforever said:


> BD economy is not 180 billion, it is 160 billion. correct yourself



Since we are talking about purchasing aircraft, shouldn't we take the PPP value into account? GDP is USD 418 billion in PPP


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## longewala

UKBengali said:


> Why do you say that BD cannot afford 100 J-31s?
> 
> BD economy is already 180 billion dollars and projected to grow 6-7% a year till 2030.
> 
> BD defence budget, when taking arms imports, is OK at 2% of GDP.
> 
> If BD orders J-31 then deliveries are likely to to take place between 2025-2030. Payments would stretch during the delivery phase. Once payments have ceased then the money would be avaible to maintain them.
> 
> BD can afford 100 J-31 as it would have only maybe 50 other fighters in its airforce.


The question is, why do you need to spend so much on fighter jets anyway?
India, Pakistan and China have to spend because they all face the prospect of war, on multiple fronts in case of india and China. Whereas, there is very little possibility of Bangladesh ever getting mixed up in a war with their only large neighbour India, Unless you are a false flagger or one of those idiots who still symphatise with the pakistanis (despite the fact that they buthchered so many of your people in 1971), and dream of joining them in war against India. In which case, you are in a small minority and irrelevant in terms of your defense planning.


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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> BD economy is not 180 billion, it is 160 billion. correct yourself




Well BD government says GDP/capita is 1180 dollars. Multiply by 150 million population and that comes to 180 billion dollars.

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## BDforever

extra terrestrial said:


> Since we are talking about purchasing aircraft, shouldn't we take the PPP value into account? GDP is USD 418 billion in PPP


good point, but we actually do not because defence budget is based on nominal, not ppp

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## UKBengali

longewala said:


> The question is, why do you need to spend so much on fighter jets anyway?
> India, Pakistan and China have to spend because they all face the prospect of war, on multiple fronts in case of india and China. Whereas, there is very little possibility of Bangladesh ever getting mixed up in a war with their only large neighbour India, Unless you are a false flagger or one of those idiots who still symphatise with the pakistanis (despite the fact that they buthchered so many of your people in 1971), and dream of joining them in war against India. In which case, you are in a small minority and irrelevant in terms of your defense planning.



Who the hell are you anyway?

You are unknown to this forum

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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> Well BD government says GDP/capita is 1180 dollars. Multiply by 150 million population and that comes to 180 billion dollars.


i do not believe in govt. info, better take IMF, which is $1025 lol


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## Luftwaffe

UKBengali said:


> Why do you say that BD cannot afford 100 J-31s?
> 
> BD economy is already 180 billion dollars and projected to grow 6-7% a year till 2030.
> 
> BD defence budget, when taking arms imports, is OK at 2% of GDP.
> 
> If BD orders J-31 then deliveries are likely to to take place between 2025-2030. Payments would stretch during the delivery phase. Once payments have ceased then the money would be avaible to maintain them.
> 
> BD can afford 100 J-31 as it would have only maybe 50 other fighters in its airforce.



It is about maintenance the hardware the fuselage/airframe is different from 4th Gen it, the RAM coating itself costs alot. You might get J-31 for 65m but did you add complete life time costs F-16 that Pakistan bought had cost 150-160m including complete spares/support. Lets put J-31 around 175m each the total cost would reach $17.5b even if we slash it it would be around $15b. Why do you think US ordered only 195 F-22 raptors. The second largest order is from UK and followed by Turkey with 110 F-35s honestly man you can't compare BD with Turkey even by 2030. But my view is BAF might either go for downgraded PAK-FA or J-31 or similar aircraft about 32 at the most. Very slim chances of War with hindustan by than UN would be active to stop conflict with-in a week or less.


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## arp2041

BDforever said:


> i do not believe in govt. info, better take IMF, which is $1025 lol



He is amazing, he trusts the Hasina Govt. ONLY when it's suits him.............

Govt. is right with GDP nos. but wrong on other Govt. functions


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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> i do not believe in govt. info, better take IMF, which is $1025 lol



IMF is still using 1995 base year - they are too lazy to use 2005 year

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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> IMF is still using 1995 base year - they are too lazy to use 2005 year


no , they changed it 



arp2041 said:


> He is amazing, he trusts the Hasina Govt. ONLY when it's suits him.............
> 
> Govt. is right with GDP nos. but wrong on other Govt. functions


i trusted hasina ?  go to sleep , you are drunk


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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> yes it is about AESA/thrust vector issue, those are new techs. and what did you say ? china is ahead in AESA ? any reference to claim ?  china is still working on AESA



Yaar check Chinese Section, any reference to claim russian are ahead they too are working but most of Chinese J-11 fleet equipped and soon J-15/J-16 would be equipped with AESA.


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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> Yaar check Chinese Section, any reference to claim russian are ahead they too are working but most of Chinese J-11 fleet equipped and soon J-15/J-16 would be equipped with AESA.


chinese fleet still to be equipped, not yet, china still developing J series aircrafts. Russia already offered AESA with Mig 35 and Su 35 and even India got AESA with Su30mki


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## arp2041

BDforever said:


> i trusted hasina ?  go to sleep , you are drunk



abey me UK waley Bengali bhai sahab ki baat kar rha hu...................


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## BDforever

arp2041 said:


> abey me UK waley Bengali bhai sahab ki baat kar rha hu...................


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## UKBengali

Luftwaffe said:


> It is about maintenance the hardware the fuselage/airframe is different from 4th Gen it, the RAM coating itself costs alot. You might get J-31 for 65m but did you add complete life time costs F-16 that Pakistan bought had cost 150-160m including complete spares/support. Lets put J-31 around 175m each the total cost would reach $17.5b even if we slash it it would be around $15b. Why do you think US ordered only 195 F-22 raptors. The second largest order is from UK and followed by Turkey with 110 F-35s honestly man you can't compare BD with Turkey even by 2030. But my view is BAF might either go for downgraded PAK-FA or J-31 or similar aircraft about 32 at the most. Very slim chances of War with hindustan by than UN would be active to stop conflict with-in a week or less.



When BD starts taking an independent stance then India would try to bully it.

If we use your figure of 15 billion life-cycle costs over 30years, then that is only 500 million dollars a year. Remember BD economy should be around 500 billion dollars in today's money by 2030 and the military will be spending 10 billion dollars a year by 2030.

BD has the option of disposing of the maybe 50 4th generation fighters it would have by then and focus purely on the deterrent value of 100 J-31s.

Not only will the J-31 be a fair bit cheaper than F-35 but BD will not also have the burden of maintaining hundreds of other fighters.

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## Luftwaffe

BDforever said:


> chinese fleet still to be equipped, not yet. Russia already offered AESA with Mig 35 and Su 35 and even India got AESA with Su30mki



Mig-35 is not ready thus AESA is not ready. Have you checked Chinese Section, AESA is in production.

J-11B has received the AESA upgrade
The J-11B's, J-15's, and J-16's next generation radar

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## BDforever

Luftwaffe said:


> Mig-35 is not ready thus AESA is not ready. Have you checked Chinese Section, AESA is in production.
> 
> J-11B has received the AESA upgrade
> The J-11B's, J-15's, and J-16's next generation radar


Mig35 and AESA are not ready ! !  check mig 35 status and if AESA not ready then how indian su30mki got that 

and last thing about china: ok i missed that part, anyway if J10B comes better with affordable price, surely BAF will go for that  anyway according to my source, BAF is evaluating J10c development


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## kalu_miah

UKBengali said:


> I would prefer if Awami League only brought enough Russian planes to be able to match Myanmar air force. They won't be very effective against India as the Russians cannot be trusted to not give the secrets to India.
> 
> Buy only some small quantity of planes this decade, say 24-36, then hopefully with Awami League out of the way next decade, BD uses its far richer economy by then to put in a massive order for 100 J-31 stealth fighters.The quantity and sophistication of these J-31s would completely neutralise the Indian airforce near BD.



That is a good point, we need to have a credible deterrence against Myanmar, but I doubt they will mess with us. If they do, then that will be a good lesson for Awami League idiots to hurry up with their purchase of some real fighters from whatever sources. If it is Russian instead of Chinese, hopefully that will be the last batch of Russian air crafts for us before J31.


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## Luftwaffe

UKBengali said:


> When BD starts taking an independent stance then India would try to bully it.
> 
> If we use your figure of 15 billion life-cycle costs over 30years, then that is only 500 million dollars a year. Remember BD economy should be around 500 billion dollars in today's money by 2030 and the military will be spending 10 billion dollars a year by 2030.
> 
> BD has the option of disposing of the maybe 50 4th generation fighters it would have by then and focus purely on the deterrent value of 100 J-31s.
> 
> Not only will the J-31 be a fair bit cheaper than F-35 but BD will not also have the burden of maintaining hundreds of other fighters.



I am only saying BAF could get up to 32 [2 squadrons] this is the only disagreement between rest we do agree, BD has a very impressive Economy.

Who knows Chinese might come up with non advanced [stealth] airframe for affordable markets that could cost much lesser yet has lower RCS similar to J-10B...is there any possibility No Clue.... remember Chinese were working on F-7MF which would have been much cheaper around 10-11m compared to FC-1 20m but the program got cancelled in favor of FC-1/JF-17.

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## UKBengali

Luftwaffe said:


> I am only saying BAF could get up to 32 [2 squadrons] this is the only disagreement between rest we do agree, BD has a very impressive Economy.
> 
> Who knows Chinese comes up with non advanced stealth airframe for affordable markets that could cost much lesser yet has lower RCS similar to J-10B...is there any possibility No Clue.... remember Chinese were working on F-7MF which would have been much cheaper around 10-11m compared to FC-1 20m but the program got cancelled in favor of FC-1/JF-17.



OK. We shall see what happens next decade.


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## aliaselin

BDforever said:


> Mig35 and AESA are not ready ! !  check mig 35 status and if AESA not ready then how indian su30mki got that
> 
> and last thing about china: ok i missed that part, anyway if J10B comes better with affordable price, surely BAF will go for that  anyway according to my source, BAF is evaluating J10c development


India MKI uses pesa, so did su-35. mig-35 have aesa

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## BDforever

aliaselin said:


> India MKI uses pesa, so did su-35. mig-35 have aesa


some chinese claim that chinese aesa can detect object of 1m^2 from 450km and object of .1m^2 from 250km, is this correct ?


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## aliaselin

BDforever said:


> some chinese claim that chinese aesa can detect object of 1m^2 from 450km and object of .1m^2 from 250km, is this correct ?


maybe they talked about 052d used aesa or kj-2000 used, not used by fighter

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## Gyp 111

L-39ZA






Mi-17H

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## BDforever

* Aero L-39ZA Albatros*

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## asad71

Luftwaffe said:


> I am only saying BAF could get up to 32 [2 squadrons] this is the only disagreement between rest we do agree, BD has a very impressive Economy.
> 
> Who knows Chinese might come up with non advanced [stealth] airframe for affordable markets that could cost much lesser yet has lower RCS similar to J-10B...is there any possibility No Clue.... remember Chinese were working on F-7MF which would have been much cheaper around 10-11m compared to FC-1 20m but the program got cancelled in favor of FC-1/JF-17.




Our very very great friend and benefactor who has installed SHW to reign over us, does not appreciate our buying Chinese military eqpt.


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## aliaselin

From the recent pictures for J-10B，it seems I have underestimated CAC's production ability, so if BD really orders them, it will not be a problem for CAC to fullfill both PLAAF and BD air force.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

aliaselin said:


> From the recent pictures for J-10B，it seems I have underestimated CAC's production ability, so if BD really orders them, it will not be a problem for CAC to fullfill both PLAAF and BD air force.


but in fact, political go-ahead comes ahead of supplier capability..... we have to wait to see where it goes, unfortunately....


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## DefenceBD

Two AW 139 are coming

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## Indus Falcon

*Bangladesh Orders Two AW139 Helicopters for Maritime SAR*
Posted on Jul 15th, 2014

AgustaWestland announced that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) of the People’s Republic of Bangladesh has signed a contract for two AW139 intermediate twin-engine helicopters.

These helicopters, which will be delivered by the end of 2015, will be operated by the Bangladesh Air Force to perform maritime search and rescue (SAR) and other utility missions.

This contract, which also includes a comprehensive support and training package, marks the establishment of the first dedicated maritime SAR helicopter fleet in the country. The AW139 was selected after an extensive evaluation process against a wide range of requirements including performance and safety. By choosing the AW139, the Bangladesh MoD will leverage on Finmeccanica – AgustaWestland’s extensive expertise in SAR and emergency services as well as the unmatched capabilities of the bestselling and most modern helicopter for the task.

The Bangladesh Air Force’s AW139s will feature an advanced mission configuration including a search/weather radar, FLIR, search light, rescue hoist, emergency floats and a state-of-the-art 4-axis dual digital AFCS with hover and SAR modes. Thanks to the AW139, the Bangladesh Air Force will be able to carry out the most demanding all-weather SAR operations in a maritime environment and will benefit from the high role versatility of the helicopter to conduct other utility missions in support of maritime security and disaster relief operations.

Bangladesh Orders Two AW139 Helicopters for Maritime SAR >> Naval Today

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## Bilal9

Abu Nasar said:


> *Bangladesh Orders Two AW139 Helicopters for Maritime SAR*
> Posted on Jul 15th, 2014
> AgustaWestland announced that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) of the People’s Republic of Bangladesh has signed a contract for two AW139 intermediate twin-engine helicopters.
> 
> These helicopters, which will be delivered by the end of 2015, will be operated by the Bangladesh Air Force to perform maritime search and rescue (SAR) and other utility missions.
> 
> This contract, which also includes a comprehensive support and training package, marks the establishment of the first dedicated maritime SAR helicopter fleet in the country. The AW139 was selected after an extensive evaluation process against a wide range of requirements including performance and safety. By choosing the AW139, the Bangladesh MoD will leverage on Finmeccanica – AgustaWestland’s extensive expertise in SAR and emergency services as well as the unmatched capabilities of the bestselling and most modern helicopter for the task.
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force’s AW139s will feature an advanced mission configuration including a search/weather radar, FLIR, search light, rescue hoist, emergency floats and a state-of-the-art 4-axis dual digital AFCS with hover and SAR modes. Thanks to the AW139, the Bangladesh Air Force will be able to carry out the most demanding all-weather SAR operations in a maritime environment and will benefit from the high role versatility of the helicopter to conduct other utility missions in support of maritime security and disaster relief operations.
> 
> Bangladesh Orders Two AW139 Helicopters for Maritime SAR >> Naval Today



Bangladesh Navy already operates a couple of Agusta Westland AW109 Helos like this,











The Bangladesh Airforce SAR AW139 will be quite a bit bigger (here's the UK Coast Guard version below), as you can see almost twice the body size compared to the AW109.






In the same size class - Bangladesh Army also now operates some Eurocopter AS365 N3+ which were delivered a few months ago and are the company’s latest member in the Dauphin class helicopters, featuring newer and more powerful Arriel 2C turboshaft engines, an increased gross weight, a 4-axis autopilot and glass cockpit which were absent in Dauphin helos made in the past decade.











Moreover Bangladesh Navy is finalizing procurement for three Z-9C naval helicopter developed by the Harbin Aircraft Manufacture Co. (HAMC) for shipborne anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and search and rescue (SAR) missions. It is based upon the Z-9B air frame, which is a copy of the Eurocopter AS365N Dauphin II. These will be located shipboard on the two modified *Type 053H3* *Jiangwei II* frigates Bangladesh purchased last year.

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## BDforever

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladesh Navy already operates a couple of Agusta Westland AW109 Helos like this,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bangladesh Airforce SAR AW139 will be quite a bit bigger (here's the UK Coast Guard version below), as you can see almost twice the body size compared to the AW109.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same size class - Bangladesh Army also now operates some Eurocopter AS365 N3+ which were delivered a few months ago and are the company’s latest member in the Dauphin class helicopters, featuring newer and more powerful Arriel 2C turboshaft engines, an increased gross weight, a 4-axis autopilot and glass cockpit which were absent in Dauphin helos made in the past decade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover Bangladesh Navy is finalizing procurement for three Z-9C naval helicopter developed by the Harbin Aircraft Manufacture Co. (HAMC) for shipborne anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and search and rescue (SAR) missions. It is based upon the Z-9B air frame, which is a copy of the Eurocopter AS365N Dauphin II. These will be located shipboard on the two modified *Type 053H3 Jiangwei II* frigates Bangladesh purchased last year.


little wrong info, Type053H2 Jiangwei 2 will not have helo, those are for Type056 corvette and Somudro Joy frigate

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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> little wrong info, Type053H2 Jiangwei 2 will not have helo, those are for Type056 corvette and Somudro Joy frigate



My bad, I forgot - I stand corrected. Some queries...

How different are the Z9c helos from their Euro sisters Dauphin II ?
Will the Z9's arrive with the type 056 class - next spring I believe?
Have they started upgrading armament on the Somudro Joy?
Are we getting a second WHEC sometime soon (Maybe Munro)? They are rapidly decommissioning these things - as soon as they are building the replacement Legend-class National Security Cutters (NSC).


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladesh Navy already operates a couple of Agusta Westland AW109 Helos like this,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bangladesh Airforce SAR AW139 will be quite a bit bigger (here's the UK Coast Guard version below), as you can see almost twice the body size compared to the AW109.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same size class - Bangladesh Army also now operates some Eurocopter AS365 N3+ which were delivered a few months ago and are the company’s latest member in the Dauphin class helicopters, featuring newer and more powerful Arriel 2C turboshaft engines, an increased gross weight, a 4-axis autopilot and glass cockpit which were absent in Dauphin helos made in the past decade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover Bangladesh Navy is finalizing procurement for three Z-9C naval helicopter developed by the Harbin Aircraft Manufacture Co. (HAMC) for shipborne anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and search and rescue (SAR) missions. It is based upon the Z-9B air frame, which is a copy of the Eurocopter AS365N Dauphin II. These will be located shipboard on the two modified *Type 053H3 Jiangwei II* frigates Bangladesh purchased last year.




Here is one of our ASW helis:

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## BDforever

Bilal9 said:


> My bad, I forgot - I stand corrected. How different are the Z9c helos from their Euro sisters Dauphin II ?


euro copter dauphin 2 utility/transport helo where Z-9c is utility/transport+ ASW capable

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> My bad, I forgot - I stand corrected. Some queries...
> 
> How different are the Z9c helos from their Euro sisters Dauphin II ?
> Will the Z9's arrive with the type 056 class - next spring I believe?
> Have they started upgrading armament on the Somudro Joy?
> Are we getting a second WHEC sometime soon (Maybe Munro)? They are rapidly decommissioning these things - as soon as they are building the replacement Legend-class National Security Cutters (NSC).



as far as I know, the Z-9s weren't officially talked about by anyone.... so, no official time as far as I know.... others can give more info though.....
BNS SJ hasn't started the process as far as latest photos are concerned....
the second WHEC is uncertain.... it all depends on US foreign policy..... the US Ambassador in BD recommended it, but he's not controlling the State Department..... this happened before as well.... in 2008, US Ambassador officially recommended a Newport-class LST for BD.... but the State Department ultimately didn't listen.... the LSTs went to other countries.... but that was a time when BD had much less bargaining power..... things have changed now for sure.... otherwise we wouldn't have got the BNS SJ.... a lot of other countries are also competing with us to get those ships....

oh.... this is the Air Force thread.....


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> as far as I know, the Z-9s weren't officially talked about by anyone.... so, no official time as far as I know.... others can give more info though.....
> BNS SJ hasn't started the process as far as latest photos are concerned....
> the second WHEC is uncertain.... it all depends on US foreign policy..... the US Ambassador in BD recommended it, but he's not controlling the State Department..... this happened before as well.... in 2008, US Ambassador officially recommended a Newport-class LST for BD.... but the State Department ultimately didn't listen.... the LSTs went to other countries.... but that was a time when BD had much less bargaining power..... things have changed now for sure.... otherwise we wouldn't have got the BNS SJ.... a lot of other countries are also competing with us to get those ships....
> 
> oh.... this is the Air Force thread.....



Thanks for the comments - back to our regular programming now

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## Gyp 111

Pilot of L-39ZA Albatros

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## jahidus2005

just get bulk missile or self pro pored anti craft missile this will make sure no aircraft can fly over if their is a war lol


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## Zabaniyah

jahidus2005 said:


> just get bulk missile or self pro pored anti craft missile this will make sure no aircraft can fly over if their is a war lol



Not if the enemy has a SEAD or DEAD doctrine.


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## Talha Mateen

Why not BD develop their own Heavy Industry and Aeronautical complex and license produced Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17s along with Pak-China UAVs.


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## TopCat

Talha Mateen said:


> Why not BD develop their own Heavy Industry and Aeronautical complex and license produced Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17s along with Pak-China UAVs.


They already started working on it with a first indigenous aircraft by 2021.

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## Talha Mateen

iajdani said:


> They already started working on it with a first indigenous aircraft by 2021.


really with whom?


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## Bilal9

Talha Mateen said:


> Why not BD develop their own Heavy Industry and Aeronautical complex and license produced Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17s along with Pak-China UAVs.



Talha - Bangladesh already has plenty of industrial activity that could be termed 'Heavy Industry' more than appropriate for a country its size and stage of development.

Civil Construction sector - Construction of very large bridges, auditoriums, public venues and high-rise buildings

Industrial Construction sector - Construction of power generation & chemical plants, extensive shipbuilding sector.

As some of these are more capital intensive or sometimes require more advanced resources, facilities or management, those come from overseas. However aerospace products and defense armaments are not a sector that Bangladesh has targeted because production of such items as exports does not guarantee profitability.

That being said production of small armament like smaller unguided rockets, howitzers, small drones, BMP parts, Tank Parts, 6X6 and 8X8 trucks, engine assembly have continued for a couple of decades. These are for armed-forces self-sufficiency purposes. And like Iajdani mentioned - we have a nascent aerospace industry too but mainly to supplement arms bought overseas.

It is purely a question of economics and value addition I'm afraid.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Talha Mateen said:


> Why not BD develop their own Heavy Industry and Aeronautical complex and license produced Super Mushak, K-8s and JF-17s along with Pak-China UAVs.


the current focus is more on shipbuilding.... Bangladesh aims to become one of the bigger players in the shipbuilding market in the coming decades.... warship construction is also gaining ground fast....
the Air Force has a goal of producing its own basic trainer..... and UAVs are already under development, but currently they're kept away from publicity, just like many other projects....


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> the current focus is more on shipbuilding.... Bangladesh aims to become one of the bigger players in the shipbuilding market in the coming decades.... warship construction is also gaining ground fast....
> the Air Force has a goal of producing its own basic trainer..... and UAVs are already under development, but currently they're kept away from publicity, just like many other projects....



Here's an old blurb from Jane's sometime back. Interestingly - the report says that drones are to be made for non-defense usage only, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Bangladesh Navy builds UAVs, drones for surveillance, targeting trials - IHS Jane's 360


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## DESERT FIGHTER

iajdani said:


> They already started working on it with a first indigenous aircraft by 2021.



Really? please share more ... does BD even produce a simple missile even under license?


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## Bilal9

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Really? please share more ... does BD even produce a simple missile even under license?



Would it make you feel better if it didn't? Thik Hai - then so be it. 

Bhookhey Nangey will remain in that situation I guess...

But joking aside - countries have different yardsticks for progress.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bilal9 said:


> Would it make you feel better if it didn't? Thik Hai - then so be it.
> 
> Bhookhey Nangey will remain in that situation I guess...
> 
> But joking aside - countries have different yardsticks for progress.



That was a genuine question..


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## tntcfive

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Really? please share more ... does BD even produce a simple missile even under license?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

???


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## tntcfive

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Really? please share more ... does BD even produce a simple missile even under license?


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## tntcfive

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Really? please share more ... does BD even produce a simple missile even under license?





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Really? please share more ... does BD even produce a simple missile even under license?


sorry for early missed post.well bd producing c-704 and c-802.


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## Zarvan

tntcfive said:


> sorry for early missed post.well bd producing c-704 and c-802.


Well than that is good but BAF needs lot more latest Fighter Jets in there Air Force


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## tntcfive

in coming years u will find bd air force is one of the best as we have plan to procure both su-30 and j-10 as for that we ordered both yak-130 and k-8.


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## bdslph

if not in 2014 by 2015 we will know what fighter jet we will buy confirm one if


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## Bilal9

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> That was a genuine question..



We all know very well that defense matters like this will not be divulged to people who do not have a 'need to know'.

So details will not be forthcoming as soon as we think. However I'm pretty sure @iajdani has his reliable sources. If the BAF wants to get into license-building a trainer aircraft that certainly is not outside their budget and capability.

I mean - come on. People build these things in their garages in the US. A proper (modern) trainer aircraft is just a few notches above this level of difficulty (light aircraft). The Musshaq program was started some two or three decades ago. How difficult could this be? And the engine (Lycoming or Rotax or Chinese copy) is always sourced overseas.

Bangladesh has not attempted such things because the size of our Air Force was much smaller and it was cheaper to import. However there has to be some replacement to the Nanchang CJ-6 and it will be cheaper to assemble locally at least. That will be a good start.

Says here - that the Govt. set up Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre at Kurmitola Air Force Base. This is from 2011.

BAF inducts FM-90 missile system - Airforce Technology


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bilal9 said:


> We all know very well that defense matters like this will not be divulged to people who do not have a 'need to know'.
> 
> So details will not be forthcoming as soon as we think. However I'm pretty sure @iajdani has his reliable sources. If the BAF wants to get into license-building a trainer aircraft that certainly is not outside their budget and capability.
> 
> I mean - come on. People build these things in their garages in the US. A proper (modern) trainer aircraft is just a few notches above this level of difficulty (light aircraft). The Musshaq program was started some two or three decades ago. How difficult could this be? And the engine (Lycoming or Rotax or Chinese copy) is always sourced overseas.
> 
> Bangladesh has not attempted such things because the size of our Air Force was much smaller and it was cheaper to import. However there has to be some replacement to the Nanchang CJ-6 and it will be cheaper to assemble locally at least. That will be a good start.
> 
> Says here - that the Govt. set up Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre at Kurmitola Air Force Base. This is from 2011.
> 
> BAF inducts FM-90 missile system - Airforce Technology



Your neighbours are also trying... despite the budget ... they have yet to succeed... as for Mushak... yes but the newer Super Mushak is another animal... its bigger,more manevurable... has sophisticated indigenous systems no wonder we have sold dozens.. just this year PAC signed a deal worth 200 million with Iraqis to supply 20 SMs and training for Iraqi Air Force.


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## Luftwaffe

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Your neighbours are also trying... despite the budget ... they have yet to succeed... as for Mushak... yes but the newer Super Mushak is another animal... its bigger,more manevurable... has sophisticated indigenous systems no wonder we have sold dozens.. just this year PAC signed a deal worth 200 million with Iraqis to supply 20 SMs and training for Iraqi Air Force.



Honest question he Mushak/S.Mushak are more comfortable, easy to fly and fairly more modern than CJ-6 and types of basic trainers, wonder why BAF is sticking to PT-6, CJ6 ordered or firm plans to order?.

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## Bilal9

Luftwaffe said:


> Honest question he Mushak/S.Mushak are more comfortable, easy to fly and fairly more modern than CJ-6 and types of basic trainers, wonder why BAF is sticking to PT-6, CJ6 ordered or firm plans to order?.



OK - let's review Bangladesh' defence purchases for the year 2012-2013 (from a reliable source):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Army: Automatic Grenade Launchers - Unknown , 18 Self Propelled Gun - Nora B-52/K1, Anti Tank Guided weapon - Metis M & Kornet E, Weapon location Radar (WLR) - Unknown, Tank - MBT2000

Navy: 2 Frigates - Jiangwei II, 2 Submarines, Cutter - Hamilton class / USCG, 2 Maritime Patrol Aircraft - RUAG Dornier Do. 228NG

Air force: 16 Multirole Fighters - F-7BGI, 16 Multirole Fighter Aircraft - MiG-29SMT, 16 Advanced Jet Trainer - Yak-130, *16 Basic Turoprop Trainers - Yak-152*, 3 Medium Helicopters - Mi-171Sh, 2 3D Radar - YLC-2

Apparently the MBT-2000 deal included an overhaul and spare part manufacturing factory, this sort of explains the high price of the deal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mind you this is just for that year - for the year 2013-14 there will be other air force items but not that extensive.

As you can see the Yak-152/CJ-7/Hongdu L-7 is being used to replace the CJ-6/PT6. I think these will serve us well. If we decide to manufacture parts - that will be easier as well, being an aircraft powered by a rotary piston engine .

L-7 early market price is at between 200,000 to 260,000 U.S. dollars (about 2 million yuan plus). Which is far more economical than any western model (like the PC-7 inducted into the IAF) and by dint of being a tandem cockpit, a better trainer for transitioning into a jet tandem trainer cockpit like the FT-7 or Yak 130 in BAF inventory. The engine is well proven in russian and chinese service and is as reliable as an anvil.






















CJ -7 (Yak -152K) is a solitary monoplane design that includes:

Conventional pneumatic controls
Low-wing, retractable tricycle landing gear design
Fuselage is an all-metal semi-monocoque structure
The structure of the wing is all metal with an asymmetric airfoil
Cockpit sealed but not airtight, there are extravehicular air ventilation and heating devices
The steering system is mechanical
Brake mode is using pneumatic-assisted handbrake
Fuel supplied using pressure and gravity refueling in dual redundant mode
Service life is estimated to be 10,000 flight hours, good for 30 years;
Can use undeveloped grass landing strips as well as runways
Cascade tandem two-seater layout with Russian SKS-94M ejection seat installed
Anti-G system options
Single piece acrylic windshield
Duplex manipulation, heating ventilation canopy demisting.
Rear seat space includes space for 20 kg of luggage
Cockpit is electronic
Mechanical steering system
In the 2010 Zhuhai Airshow, promotional materials show that the Hongdu Group CJ -7 also offered an option of a 360-horsepower (268 kilowatts) fan-cooled four-stroke gasoline engine. Some initial models of the Yak -152 debuted with a 360-horsepower M-14X engine however (rotary engine in image above). There are reports that a Romanian CJ -7 maidened its prototype aircraft equipped with a piston-6. Previously there were rumors, that CJ -7 could also be fitted the ubiquitous M601F turboprop engine (used in various Eastern Europe and Chinese aircraft with take-off power of 777 horsepower or 580 kilowatts and a maximum cruise power of 670 horsepower or 500 kilowatts). The propeller selection includes a domestic trifoil propeller of Chinese origin. However the M 601F turboprop engine will need a variable pitch air-screw of four or five blades to improve performance and use the additional power wisely.

I cannot confirm which engine the Bangladeshi Yak-152's will be supplied with.


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## Zarvan

Bilal9 said:


> OK - let's review Bangladesh' defence purchases for the year 2012-2013 (from a reliable source):
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Army: Automatic Grenade Launchers - Unknown , 18 Self Propelled Gun - Nora B-52/K1, Anti Tank Guided weapon - Metis M & Kornet E, Weapon location Radar (WLR) - Unknown, Tank - MBT2000
> 
> Navy: 2 Frigates - Jiangwei I, 2 Submarine - Unknown , Cutter - Hamilton class / USCG Dallas, 2 Maritime Patrol Aircraft - RUAG Dornier Do. 228NG
> 
> Air force: 16 Multirole Fighters - F-7BGI, 16 Multirole Fighter Aircraft - Su-30MK2/MiG-29SMT), 16 Advanced Jet Trainer - Yak-130, *16 Basic Turoprop Trainers - Yak-152*, 3 Medium Helicopters - Mi-171Sh, 2 3D Radar - YLC-2
> 
> Apparently the MBT-2000 deal included an overhaul and spare part manufacturing factory, this sort of explains the high price of the deal.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Mind you this is just for that year - for the year 2013-14 there will be other air force items but not that extensive.
> 
> As you can see the Yak-152/CJ-7/Hongdu L-7 is being used to replace the CJ-6/PT6. I think these will serve us well. If we decide to manufacture parts - that will be easier as well, being an aircraft powered by a rotary piston engine .
> 
> L-7 early market price is at between 200,000 to 260,000 U.S. dollars (about 2 million yuan plus). Which is far more economical than any western model and by dint of being a tandem cockpit, a better trainer for transitioning into a jet tandem trainer cockpit like the FT-7 or Yak 130 in BAF inventory. The engine is well proven in russian and chinese service and is as reliable as an anvil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CJ -7 (Yak -152K) is a solitary monoplane design that includes:
> 
> Conventional pneumatic controls
> Low-wing, retractable tricycle landing gear design
> Fuselage is an all-metal semi-monocoque structure
> The structure of the wing is all metal with an asymmetric airfoil
> Cockpit sealed but not airtight, there are extravehicular air ventilation and heating devices
> The steering system is mechanical
> Brake mode is using pneumatic-assisted handbrake
> Fuel supplied using pressure and gravity refueling in dual redundant mode
> Service life is estimated to be 10,000 flight hours, good for 30 years;
> Can use undeveloped grass landing strips as well as runways
> Cascade tandem two-seater layout with Russian SKS-94M ejection seat installed
> Anti-G system options
> Single piece acrylic windshield
> Duplex manipulation, heating ventilation canopy demisting.
> Rear seat space includes space for 20 kg of luggage
> Cockpit is electronic
> Mechanical steering system
> In the 2010 Zhuhai Airshow, promotional materials show that the Hongdu Group CJ -7 also offered an option of a 360-horsepower (268 kilowatts) fan-cooled four-stroke gasoline engine. Some initial models of the Yak -152 debuted with a 360-horsepower M-14X engine however (rotary engine in image above). There are reports that a Romanian CJ -7 maidened its prototype aircraft equipped with a piston-6. Previously there were rumors, that CJ -7 could also be fitted the ubiquitous M601F turboprop engine (used in various Eastern Europe and Chinese aircraft with take-off power of 777 horsepower or 580 kilowatts and a maximum cruise power of 670 horsepower or 500 kilowatts). The propeller selection includes a domestic trifoil propeller of Chinese origin. However the M 601F turboprop engine will need a variable pitch air-screw of four or five blades to improve performance and use the additional power wisely.
> 
> I cannot confirm which engine the Bangladeshi Yak-152's will be supplied with.


You haven't bought SU-30


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## Bilal9

Zarvan said:


> You haven't bought SU-30



I know - I corrected that part. The report is from two years ago and not all accurate. But most of the items have been confirmed so far.


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## Nike

Bilal9 said:


> I know - I corrected that part. The report is from two years ago and not all accurate. But most of the items have been confirmed so far.



then it's more like the list of stuffs you want to buy for one phase of modernization programme


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## Luftwaffe

CJ-7 very awkward type of aircraft. 

The Serbian UTVA LASTA 95 is interesting.


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## Bilal9

Luftwaffe said:


> CJ-7 very awkward type of aircraft.
> 
> The Serbian UTVA LASTA 95 is interesting.



That aircraft has nice classic lines. But the 'mother' of all advanced turboprop trainer aircraft is the turboprop powered Super Tucano (EMB 314). In fact there should have been five contenders for this advanced prop trainer slash COIN role. And they appear below. Only two are made in the west, one in the good old US of A and the other in Switzerland (Beechcraft/Raytheon AT-6 and Pilatus PC-7). Both get disqualified because they are old designs and cost too much. So that leaves the Super Tucano (Brazilian), the KAI KT-1 Woongbi (Korean) and the TAI Hurkus (Turkey) in the running. My personal choice would have been the Super Tucano as it is heavily modernized and derived from the excellent EMB-312 Tucano assembled in the UK and used by the Royal Air Force. The Super Tucano can carry and launch AIM-7 sparrow missiles (or Chinese copies) and of course rocket pods. Here's an article,

Super Tucano leads the flock | Asian Defence News Articles | Defence Review Asia

Super Tucano (2 images)









KAI KT-1 Woongbi






TAI Hurkus





Pilatus PC-7 Mk-II (India)





Hawker Beechcraft T-6A Texan II (IRAQ)





But once you come down to ground reality - these sexy turboprops are not really appropriate for a CJ-6 replacement in Bangladesh. We won't really need a serious COIN capability unless things flair up with Myanmar and we try jungle bombing in the Chittagong hill tracts. The low-maintenance cheap and reliable CJ-7 is however perfect. In spite of it's short-throw tail-moment and oddball proportions. 

Back in the day the grand daddy of the Yak-152 (Russian version for Hongdu CJ-7), which was Yak-55 was so profitable for Yak that this 60 year old design (complete with rotary engine Vedeneyev M14) was put back into series production at Yak in the 80's and 90's as an aerobatic aircraft with high demand in US and Europe. But unlike the Yak 55, the Yak 152 is a far more modern and easier to handle design, yet retaining all the aerobatic prowess of its predecessor. Here's a Yak 55 image for comparison.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> That aircraft has nice classic lines. But the 'mother' of all advanced turboprop trainer aircraft is the turboprop powered Super Tucano (EMB 314). In fact there should have been five contenders for this advanced prop trainer slash COIN role. And they appear below. Only two are made in the west, one in the good old US of A and the other in Switzerland (Beechcraft/Raytheon AT-6 and Pilatus PC-7). Both get disqualified because they are old designs and cost too much. So that leaves the Super Tucano (Brazilian), the KAI KT-1 Woongbi (Korean) and the TAI Hurkus (Turkey) in the running. My personal choice would have been the Super Tucano as it is heavily modernized and derived from the excellent EMB-312 Tucano assembled in the UK and used by the Royal Air Force. The Super Tucano can carry and launch AIM-7 sparrow missiles (or Chinese copies) and of course rocket pods. Here's an article,
> 
> Super Tucano leads the flock | Asian Defence News Articles | Defence Review Asia
> 
> Super Tucano (2 images)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KAI KT-1 Woongbi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TAI Hurkus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pilatus PC-7 Mk-II (India)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hawker Beechcraft T-6A Texan II (IRAQ)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But once you come down to ground reality - these sexy turboprops are not really appropriate for a CJ-6 replacement in Bangladesh. We won't really need a serious COIN capability unless things flair up with Myanmar and we try jungle bombing in the Chittagong hill tracts. The low-maintenance cheap and reliable CJ-7 is however perfect. In spite of it's short-throw tail-moment and oddball proportions.
> 
> Back in the day the grand daddy of the Yak-152 (Russian version for Hongdu CJ-7), which was Yak-55 was so profitable for Yak that this 60 year old design (complete with rotary engine Vedeneyev M14) was put back into series production at Yak in the 80's and 90's as an aerobatic aircraft with high demand in US and Europe. But unlike the Yak 55, the Yak 152 is a far more modern and easier to handle design, yet retaining all the aerobatic prowess of its predecessor. Here's a Yak 55 image for comparison.



AIM-7 or AIM-9 ?


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> AIM-7 or AIM-9 ?



My apologies - the AIM-9 ('L' version to be exact). the Super Tucano can also carry the Brazilian replacement for the AIM-9, the *MAA-1B Piranha* which is a Brazilian 4th generation air to air missile produced by Mectron Brazil.The project is at final stage of development under qualification phase with over 40 guided flights completed by April 2012. Production was expected to begin in 2013.

The missile is fitted with a dual-color seeker, featuring 70-degree look angle with 40-degrees per second track rate, and a greater range of 50%, as well as greater maneuverability achieved by changing the aerodynamics of the flight controls of the original missile. The MAA-1B is capable of being appointed by the aircraft's radar or the HMD helmet.

Item 171 in the diagram above (please click and enlarge)

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## kalu_miah

Super Tucano Avionics is from Elbit of Israel. The newly designed TAI Hurkus is similar or better:
TAI Hürkuş - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## kalu_miah



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## Zarvan

kalu_miah said:


> Super Tucano Avionics is from Elbit of Israel. The newly designed TAI Hurkus is similar or better:
> TAI Hürkuş - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


As far as I know Indonesia is not facing any militancy why they need these planes if for training than good but as fighter no


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## Bilal9

Zarvan said:


> As far as I know Indonesia is not facing any militancy why they need these planes if for training than good but as fighter no



Indonesia always had a strong air force tradition dating from the dutch and japanese occupation days pre-WWII. Plus their tradition of manufacturing complete airplanes successfully before anyone else in the region in the 70's. _PT. Dirgantara Indonesia_ (DI) (earlier known as PT Nurtanio or IPTN) in Bandung was a huge aero complex in Indonesia and an early star of the Asian aviation scene, assembling all their air force requirements and overhauling DC-9's. Two of their successful aero transport products are JV with CASA in spain, i.e. the C-212 Aviocar and the CN-235. Pakistan may have a few of the latter. The CN-235 is also a popular maritime patrol and ASW platform.

Also their launch of their own turboprop airliner program the N250 back in the day (1995) was unprecedented among Asian countries. Thanks to scheming of first world economies and their handmaiden the IMF that airliner failed to see any sales before funding for IPTN was drastically cut. Too advanced for its time - some would say. Witness that almost no Asian or ME country (except Iran with its Russian airliner program) has had any chance at great commercial success. In any case I digress from my OT rant.

It is interesting that Indonesian AF has two types of these Turboprop trainers, both the latest Brazilian Super Tucano as well as a number of the Korean KT-1 Woongbi.

But the numerical strength and qualitative component of their training division warrants it. Their training program is quite large, as befits the size and far-flung areas of their country

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## Zarvan

Bilal9 said:


> Indonesia always had a strong air force tradition dating from the dutch and japanese occupation days pre-WWII. Plus their tradition of manufacturing complete airplanes successfully before anyone else in the region in the 70's. _PT. Dirgantara Indonesia_ (DI) (earlier known as PT Nurtanio) in Bandung was a huge aero complex in Indonesia and an early star of the Asian aviation scene, assembling all their air force requirements and overhauling DC-9's. Two of their successful aero transport products are JV with CASA in spain, i.e. the C-212 Aviocar and the CN-235. Pakistan may have a few of the latter.
> 
> It is interesting that they have two types of these Turboprop trainers, both the latest Brazilian Super Tucano as well as a number of the Korean KT-1 Woongbi.
> 
> But the numerical strength and qualitative component of their training division warrants it. Their training program is quite large, as befits the size and far-flung areas of their country


I was using mobile and I accidently thought I am writing on Indonesian section


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## Nike

Zarvan said:


> I was using mobile and I accidently thought I am writing on Indonesian section



Ah i just read it here, well we are using Super Tucano mainly as maritime and border surveillance. Their bonus is they are quite cheap to be maintained and have a low value of CfpH than a larger platform. Their added value is, they can be based in rough field with minimum facilities and can served as training platform and CAS platform. In summary, they are quite versatile. 

@Bilal9 

thanks for your positive comment about us. Hmm as far as i know, several years ago Bangladesh giving us an inquiry about CN-235 MPA/ASW version, they are quite interested after seeing Turkish Navy version in which just got their plans to be upgraded in Indonesia. Any progress about it?


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## Zarvan

madokafc said:


> Ah i just read it here, well we are using Super Tucano mainly as maritime and border surveillance. Their bonus is they are quite cheap to be maintained and have a low value of CfpH than a larger platform. Their added value is, they can be based in rough field with minimum facilities and can served as training platform and CAS platform. In summary, they are quite versatile.
> 
> @Bilal9
> 
> thanks for your positive comment about us. Hmm as far as i know, several years ago Bangladesh giving us an inquiry about CN-235 MPA/ASW version, they are quite interested after seeing Turkish Navy version in which just got their plans to be upgraded in Indonesia. Any progress about it?


Yes for Border Surveillance and check people movement and for militancy these are good Jets and also can be used as good trainer


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## Bilal9

madokafc said:


> Ah i just read it here, well we are using Super Tucano mainly as maritime and border surveillance. Their bonus is they are quite cheap to be maintained and have a low value of CfpH than a larger platform. Their added value is, they can be based in rough field with minimum facilities and can served as training platform and CAS platform. In summary, they are quite versatile.
> 
> @Bilal9
> 
> thanks for your positive comment about us. Hmm as far as i know, several years ago Bangladesh giving us an inquiry about CN-235 MPA/ASW version, they are quite interested after seeing Turkish Navy version in which just got their plans to be upgraded in Indonesia. Any progress about it?



Well the ASW aircraft purchase I think is yet to be decided. 

Pakistan has some P3c Orion (based on the Lockheed Electra) as ASW platform which is quite sophisticated. 

CN-235 would also make a fine smaller ASW platform which Turkish Navy has just demonstrated. Bangladesh just bought two German RUAG Dornier Do-228 airplanes for maritime patrol (not ASW) for which the bodies were made in India. In my opinion the CN-235 would have been a far better option because you could pull substitute SAR rescue role with this platform as well. Do-228 is not suitable for SAR duties. But sometimes purchases are made with financing companies who strongly dictate the choice of hardware vendor (profit sharing under the table).

It is of course also my opinion that if possible Bangladesh should make any possible defense purchases from a brotherly Muslim country like Indonesia. But relatively cheaper Chinese arms and easy-credit Russian terms for arms purchases made Bangladesh purchase armament from those countries so far. 

But Bangladesh will make a decision on ASW purchase and they may seriously consider the CN-235, if not anything other than the proximity of Indonesia to Bangladesh and the availability of friendly maintenance resources etc.

There is a lot of reports circulating in the local press about sourcing other armaments (especially for army) from Indonesia. Lot of Indonesian arms may already have been sourced. In any case Indonesia figures strongly in Bangladesh military circles as a supplier.

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## Gyp 111

BAF FT-7BG1

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## eastwatch

Gyp 111 said:


> BAF FT-7BG1



Thanks for the picture. But I am surprised to see only five hard points instead of expected seven.


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## Bilal9

eastwatch said:


> Thanks for the picture. But I am surprised to see only five hard points instead of expected seven.



This is the trainer version. Maybe a limit because of the extra ejection seat, instrumentation and pilot load. Possibly also extra fuel for training missions.

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## chisty_chowdhury

eastwatch said:


> Thanks for the picture. But I am surprised to see only five hard points instead of expected seven.



F-7BG1 has 5 hard points not 7 same as FT-7.

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## Bilal9

chisty_chowdhury said:


> F-7BG1 has 5 hard points not 7 same as FT-7.



If BGI has only 5 hardpoints I'm guessing one of two things:

1. There was a design revision where they felt that the small wing was overtaxed with 7 hardpoints - or they found cracks or signs of stress or fatigue on it.

2. Maybe the weight per hardpoint was moved up - for more capable i.e. AIM-9 copies with more sophisticated seekers and/or longer range i.e. heavier packed rocket motor.

I don't think the F-7BGI is BVR capable?

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## eastwatch

Bilal9 said:


> If BGI has only 5 hardpoints I'm guessing one of two things:
> 
> 1. There was a design revision where they felt that the small wing was overtaxed with 7 hardpoints - or they found cracks or signs of stress or fatigue on it.
> 
> 2. Maybe the weight per hardpoint was moved up - for more capable i.e. AIM-9 copies with more sophisticated seekers and/or longer range i.e. heavier packed rocket motor.
> 
> *I don't think the F-7BGI is BVR capable?*



Contrary to what people believe, BVR may not be that functional specially when it is short range dog fights. Even from a long range attack BVR missiles may not kill the enemy plane if its pilot is well trained on how to evade it. However, all the countries seek BVR capable planes.


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## chisty_chowdhury

Bilal9 said:


> If BGI has only 5 hardpoints I'm guessing one of two things:
> 
> 1. There was a design revision where they felt that the small wing was overtaxed with 7 hardpoints - or they found cracks or signs of stress or fatigue on it.
> 
> 2. Maybe the weight per hardpoint was moved up - for more capable i.e. AIM-9 copies with more sophisticated seekers and/or longer range i.e. heavier packed rocket motor.
> 
> I don't think the F-7BGI is BVR capable?



The F-7MF was designed to mount 7 hard points inaddition of F-16 like air-inlet but never hit production line.

BG1s can carry LGM of long range.

The sole purpose of F-7 is interception hence BVR capability is redundant here and has a firing range of 20+KM. Its not to be mixed up with the tracking range. Moreover F-7 has MMS integrated. 

At the end it seems BAF is still an airforce with limited capabilities.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bilal9 said:


> Well the ASW aircraft purchase I think is yet to be decided.
> 
> Pakistan has some P3c Orion (based on the Lockheed Electra) as ASW platform which is quite sophisticated.
> 
> CN-235 would also make a fine smaller ASW platform which Turkish Navy has just demonstrated. Bangladesh just bought two German RUAG Dornier Do-228 airplanes for maritime patrol (not ASW) for which the bodies were made in India. In my opinion the CN-235 would have been a far better option because you could pull substitute SAR rescue role with this platform as well. Do-228 is not suitable for SAR duties. But sometimes purchases are made with financing companies who strongly dictate the choice of hardware vendor (profit sharing under the table).
> 
> It is of course also my opinion that if possible Bangladesh should make any possible defense purchases from a brotherly Muslim country like Indonesia. But relatively cheaper Chinese arms and easy-credit Russian terms for arms purchases made Bangladesh purchase armament from those countries so far.
> 
> But Bangladesh will make a decision on ASW purchase and they may seriously consider the CN-235, if not anything other than the proximity of Indonesia to Bangladesh and the availability of friendly maintenance resources etc.
> 
> There is a lot of reports circulating in the local press about sourcing other armaments (especially for army) from Indonesia. Lot of Indonesian arms may already have been sourced. In any case Indonesia figures strongly in Bangladesh military circles as a supplier.



Pan also operates ATR-72s for ASW .. Plus our Orion's are upgraded hawkeyes..

The ATR upgrade:

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## Gyp 111

BAF Mig-29S during winter exercise 'Wintex 2014'.






MiG-29SE of the Bangladesh Air Force


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## Daedalus

COAS (General Dalbir Singh Suhag) interacting with Air Marshal Muhammad Enamul Bari, Chief of Air Staff, Bangladesh Air Force.

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## kurup

*B’desh Air Force chief meets top Indian defence brass*






Seeking to strengthen military ties, Bangladesh Air Force chief Muhammed Enamul Bari today met the top Indian defence brass including Defence Minister Arun Jaitley.

The Bangladesh air chief also met his Indian counterpart IAF chief Arup Raha and Army chief Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag and discussed ways of further strengthening relations between the armed forces of the two countries.

India and Bangladesh have been working towards strengthening their bilateral ties in the recent past with several high level military visits taking place.

B’desh Air Force chief meets top Indian defence brass | idrw.org


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## damiendehorn

kurup said:


> *B’desh Air Force chief meets top Indian defence brass*
> 
> View attachment 59309
> 
> 
> Seeking to strengthen military ties, Bangladesh Air Force chief Muhammed Enamul Bari today met the top Indian defence brass including Defence Minister Arun Jaitley.
> 
> The Bangladesh air chief also met his Indian counterpart IAF chief Arup Raha and Army chief Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag and discussed ways of further strengthening relations between the armed forces of the two countries.
> 
> India and Bangladesh have been working towards strengthening their bilateral ties in the recent past with several high level military visits taking place.
> 
> B’desh Air Force chief meets top Indian defence brass | idrw.org



Just normal good will visits been going on all the time with visits to many countries, China, US, Russia, etc. Why all the drums from a regular goodwill visit?


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## kurup

damiendehorn said:


> Just normal good will visits been going on all the time with visits to many countries, China, US, Russia, etc. Why all the drums from a regular goodwill visit?



Where is the drum beats ??

It's just a normal reporting of a normal visit ..... that's it .


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## damiendehorn

kurup said:


> Where is the drum beats ??
> 
> It's just a normal reporting of a normal visit ..... that's it .



I am glad you agree, this visit has no real significance. Hence not much point even talking about.


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## kurup

damiendehorn said:


> I am glad you agree, this visit has no real significance. Hence not much point even talking about.



Exactly .... and in fact you are the only one talking about it .

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## Roybot

damiendehorn said:


> Just normal good will visits been going on all the time with visits to many countries, China, US, Russia, etc. Why all the drums from a regular goodwill visit?



India gifts vintage Dakota aircraft to Bangladesh | Zee News

"*On a formal request from the Bangladesh Air Force and reviewing the historic ties, one Dakota aircraft from the IAF museum was gifted to the Bangladesh Air Force and was received by its chief Air Marshal Muhammad Enamul Bari at Palam here," an IAF release said.*

*The Dakota aircraft played a crucial role in the liberation of Bangladesh and formation of Bangladesh Air Force and was used for air dropping Army troops in Bangladesh's Tangail during the 1971 war.




*


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## damiendehorn

kurup said:


> Exactly .... and in fact you are the only one talking about it .



And you.


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## kurup

damiendehorn said:


> And you.



I am just posting the news ....... If the news is not worth it , nobody will bother to reply .


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## damiendehorn

kurup said:


> I am just posting the news ....... If the news is not worth it , nobody will bother to reply .



Question then is why?


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## kurup

damiendehorn said:


> Question then is why?



what why ???


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## FNFAL

I guess Mymmar and BD are matched equally Hardware wise.


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## Bilal9

FNFAL said:


> I guess Mymmar and BD are matched equally Hardware wise.



Yup - that in spite of the economies and industrial/logistics infrastructure which are heavily unmatched. There is no comparison.

Although Myanmar is rapidly developing at over 7% growth - years of neglect has left the industrial infrastructure largely undeveloped. Of course if someone wants to prove me wrong they are welcome to.

Myanmar's Junta-led Govt. spends an inordinate amount of money on their military, because of the need for bribes and kickbacks that primarily goes to the pockets of its junta military leaders to keep that structure afloat. Now this also happens in Bangladesh, India and Pakistan - but on a far lesser scale because of public scrutiny and because (so-called) democratically elected governments are answerable to their electorate.

Along with China and India, Bangladesh is 4th out of the top 5 fastest growing economies in the world. The export basket is rapidly diversifying from garments which used to be the majority export in the 80's and 90's. The following shows Bangladesh' export performance over the years.





copyright euromonitor

I will actually be happy to see Myanmar in that position in the future - which will hopefully mean that economic growth will propel Myanmar to transition into democracy by that time.

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## damiendehorn

Myanmar actually has a higher defence expenditure the BD, a larger armed forces and a more experienced army. 

However if you look into each aspect it all starts to look like Swiss cheese, the army is bigger but the bulk are conscripts and effectively tied up with fighting the various internal groups Karen's, Shans, kachins etc. or suppressing any form of real democracy.

The army is highly experienced and focused in counter insurgency, fighting small guerrilla warfare but much less experienced or structured to fight a major battle against a professional army.

Their economy is far less developed then BD, and far smaller. They also have to divert a far greater proportion of their resources to defence then to growth.

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## FNFAL

Bilal9 said:


> Yup - that in spite of the economies and industrial/logistics infrastructure which are heavily unmatched. There is no comparison.
> Although Myanmar is rapidly developing at over 7% growth - years of neglect has left the industrial infrastructure largely undeveloped. ......


Thanks.
Burma has actually taken a poise to modenize from the early 2000's....And the given the huge help of CHina in this matter, their army , specially in artillery and mechanised infantry formations are looking way a gen ahead , from their 80/90's days.

But yes, as is with any dicator/junta style govt..there are some fallacies.


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## Bilal9

damiendehorn said:


> Myanmar actually has a higher defence expenditure the BD, a larger armed forces and a more experienced army.
> 
> However if you look into each aspect it all starts to look like Swiss cheese, the army is bigger but the bulk are conscripts and effectively tied up with fighting the various internal groups Karen's, Shans, kachins etc. or suppressing any form of real democracy.
> 
> The army is highly experienced and focused in counter insurgency, fighting small guerrilla warfare but much less experienced or structured to fight a major battle against a professional army.
> 
> Their economy is far less developed then BD, and far smaller. They also have to divert a far greater proportion of their resources to defence then to growth.



I was reading details on the recent BAF Wintex exercise and the level of coordination and war-fighting professionalism is of quite a high standard - because of UNIFIL involvement and exercises with first world armies and navies, especially those services belonging to the Unites States. This was built on top of what already was a pretty high baseline which was experience during Pakistan Army days pre-1971. I'd venture to say that the Bangladesh Army's standards and professionalism are top shelf when compared to the rest of the armies in rest of South Asia and even when considered Asia-wide. And that is not just today - but even in the 1800's. Because of economic reasons the Army has always attracted the best and brightest.



Roybot said:


> India gifts vintage Dakota aircraft to Bangladesh | Zee News
> 
> "*On a formal request from the Bangladesh Air Force and reviewing the historic ties, one Dakota aircraft from the IAF museum was gifted to the Bangladesh Air Force and was received by its chief Air Marshal Muhammad Enamul Bari at Palam here," an IAF release said.*
> 
> *The Dakota aircraft played a crucial role in the liberation of Bangladesh and formation of Bangladesh Air Force and was used for air dropping Army troops in Bangladesh's Tangail during the 1971 war.
> 
> View attachment 62152
> *



I think this one may become part of the exhibit in the new Airforce Museum off of Old Tejgaon Airport.


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## Rokto14

BAF got 8 K-8s from China already??


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## Bilal9

Rokto14 said:


> BAF got 8 K-8s from China already??



Yes its confirmed. Waiting for images so I can see how they applied the camouflage .

Someone created a new thread on it. Which should have been updated here - there wasn't a need to create a new one.

Here's the thread,

Bangladesh air force received 9 K-8w aircraft | Page 2

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## Bilal9

A video uploaded by the US Air Force on the Bangladesh-US cope South exercize and paratrooper jump.

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## Rokto14

BAF should really get Chengdu J-10. Was looking through the aircraft. It's cheap and has like 11 hardpoints. A good and wide range of armaments too.


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## TopCat

Rokto14 said:


> BAF should really get Chengdu J-10. Was looking through the aircraft. It's cheap and has like 11 hardpoints. A good and wide range of armaments too.


J-10 is not cheap


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## Luftwaffe

iajdani said:


> J-10 is not cheap



Plus from point of view of BAF it is short legged unless it is bought in as low High mix and also than Bangladesh would later have to buy Air Refueler a couple of them so Flanker are something BAF should consider.

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## TopCat

Luftwaffe said:


> Plus from point of view of BAF it is short legged unless it is bought in as low High mix and also than Bangladesh would later have to buy Air Refueler a couple of them so Flanker are something BAF should consider.



With the Yak-130 I thought BD may go for Flanker but latest K-8 does not make any sense to me. I think BD did not give up on Chinese option either.


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## Luftwaffe

iajdani said:


> With the Yak-130 I thought BD may go for Flanker but latest K-8 does not make any sense to me. I think BD did not give up on Chinese option either.



Yes you are right but we don't know what BAF plans, but it could be replacement to T-37s which were already in storage.


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## BDforever

iajdani said:


> With the Yak-130 I thought BD may go for Flanker but latest K-8 does not make any sense to me. I think BD did not give up on Chinese option either.


K-8 for advance training and yak-130 for lead in fighter training.


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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> K-8 for advance training and yak-130 for lead in fighter training.



Excellent observations but I think they are inducting the Yak-130 for Russian AF use as well. It'll be interesting to see what kind of fighter Yak-130 lead-in graduates move up to. Some interesting features that have not been discussed,

This airplane's air intakes are on top of the fuselage, the bottom intakes are covered in case the plane has to *land on a dirt airstrip*, keeps the engines from taking in debris. (see first video below). Which means this can operate from dirt runways.
There is a huge air-brake on the top of the fuselage a la Su-31, 33, 35 series. Can be deployed in flight to dump lift and maneuver.
See the first video for evasive missile maneuvers at 3:01.
The airplane comes with advanced FADEC and fully fly-by-wire controls which means it can simulate lead-in training for any 4++ or 5th Gen. fighter. Some have stated that the immediate lead-in roles are going to be for Su-33 & Mig-35 among other Russian front line fighters. That may give some idea of what the BAF wants to induct as front line equipment.
It's Italian Counterpart AerMacchi M-346 has been ordered by the Singapore AF and many other NATO AF's.
Some HD videos (apologies to those with slower connections).

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## kalu_miah

L-15 is a supersonic trainer and uses the same engines as yak-130. BAF should look at this:
Hongdu L-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> L-15 is a supersonic trainer and uses the same engines as yak-130. BAF should look at this:
> Hongdu L-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


yak-130 is far more superior than L-`15, only speed goes not matter.


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## kalu_miah

The difference in speed is 280 mph. L-15 = 924 mph top speed, whereas yak-130 is 644 mph. I can see right away that this would be more agile as an attack fighter:
Venezuela will buy 24 Chinese L-15 and more K-8
L-15 is formally commissioned in PLAAF

The purpose of a supersonic trainer is different than subsonic trainer, the supersonic trainer can be used for supersonic flight training and also it is better as an attack fighter due to higher speed and agility.
A.S.Yakovlev Design Bureau вЂ“:вЂ“ company вЂ“:вЂ“ publications вЂ“:вЂ“ articles
"According to Oleg Demchenko, the Yakovlev Design Bureau, in the last three years, under the order of China's AV1C-2 (Aviation Industry of China/Second Group), the company has provided consulting services and prepared a concept specification for the L-15 trainer, the development of which is carried out in China. This aircraft will replace the aging K-8 and will be able to compete on China's trainer market against the FTC-2000 aircraft being developed by AV1C-1.

As per O.Demchenko, the Russian company did not participate in designing and building the full-scale mockup of the L-15 aircraft, which is expected to make a demonstration flight at China Air Show-2004 in Zhuhai. The company only assisted in evaluating the concept of the supersonic operational trainer and did associated research and development work under that project.

«We are satisfied with cooperation with the Chinese party under the L-15 project and can't but note the very high professional skills of the Chinese aviation experts. It is not inconceivable that AVIC-2 will be able to continue to cooperate with us under the supersonic trainer program, in the implementation of which the Chinese experts also utilize our experience in building a subsonic Yak-130 aircraft,» - said Oleg Demchenko.

The world's current system of training combat pilots is based on using trainers of three classes, i.e. those for initial, basic and advanced training.

Placing emphasis on re-equipping its National Air Force with modern multi-role fighters, China needs now initial and advanced training aircraft.

By contrast to the concept of the subsonic advanced training aircraft adopted by the Russian Air Force, China opted for building a supersonic trainer of this type. "About 90% of combat pilot's total basic training procedure is spent on flying subsonic trainers that are cheaper to operate than supersonic types. The switch from subsonic trainers to supersonic operational aircraft in the course of advanced flight training takes up only 10% of the required training time" noted Oleg Demchenko.

Experts believe that demand for advanced trainers on China's defense market can be quite high. At the same time, they don't think that in the near term this will exceed 200 supersonic machines of L-15 type."

L-15, Yak-130 Jet Trainers Compete for Asian Buyers | Aviation International News
December 7, 2012, 9:18 AM
"Bangladesh and Vietnam are close to buying the Yakovlev Yak-130 advanced jet trainer, according to Russia’s weapons exporter, Rosoboronexport, but in other Asian countries the aircraft faces growing competition from China in the form of the Hongdu L-15. “There are no sales prospects for our aircraft in China, because the local engineers have developed their own design. Outwardly, the L-15 bears a distinct resemblance to the Yak-130,” said Sergei Kornev, head of the Rosoboronexport department for aviation.

Kornev said that Rosoboronexport still hopes to sell the Yak-130 to a number of Asian customers since it has “certain advantages over the Chinese product.” The L-15 is designed for supersonic speed, which makes it more difficult to operate and maintain. It needs a set of dedicated equipment at an operational airfield. The Yak-130 is subsonic and is capable of autonomous operations from temporary in-theater airfields, Kornev noted.

Meanwhile, at the recent Airshow China in Zhuhai, China Aero-Technology Export-Import (Catic) signed for 12 L-15s that will be delivered to an unspecified foreign customer."

Hongdu L-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"




People's Republic of China

People's Liberation Army Air Force (First batch of L-15 is commissioned in a training center of PLAAF in EAST of China,and the quantity is not sure at the moment from public information)
In November 2012, an order for twelve L-15s by an unknown customer was announced. They are due to be delivered in 2013.[6] This batch of L-15 is begun to be handed over to the customer on June 29, 2013.[7]



Zambia

Zambian Air Force - At least 6 was ordered by Zambian in Zhuhhai Air Show, 2012.




Venezuela

Venezuela Air Force - Venezuela Defence Minister Carmen Meléndez Rivas revealed in April 2014, ordering 24 L-15. [8][9]"
BAF can consider buying a small number of L-15, engines are same as yak-130, so maintenance would be very easy.

JF-17 block 1 is also fairly cheap with starting price at $15 million, which is same price as yak-130 and L-15. So this should be considered as well, because of its low cost and this one is a real fighter with 3600 kg pay load (yak-130 has 3000 kg, L-15 has 2000 kg payload and K-8 has 1000 kg) and top speed of 1370 mph.

So for BAF:
- K-8 is the cheapest to operate single engine basic jet trainer, top speed 500 mph, payload 1000 kg
- then we have yak-130 as twin engine advanced subsonic trainers, top speed 644 mph, payload 3000 kg
- now we should get some L-15 as twin engine advanced supersonic (924 mph) trainers, top speed 924 mph, payload 2000 kg
- and finally we should also get some JF-17 block-1 for low end fighter aircraft, also good for training at very high speed, top speed 1370 mph, payload 3600 kg

Mig 29's top speed is around 1500 mph, Mig 35 same top speed and J-10 is mach 2.2 or around 1450 mph.
Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us -  Military Aircraft Maximum Speeds

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## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> The difference in speed is 280 mph. L-15 = 924 mph top speed, whereas yak-130 is 644 mph. I can see right away that this would be more agile as an attack fighter:
> Venezuela will buy 24 Chinese L-15 and more K-8
> L-15 is formally commissioned in PLAAF
> 
> The purpose of a supersonic trainer is different than subsonic trainer, the supersonic trainer can be used for supersonic flight training and also it is better as an attack fighter due to higher speed and agility.
> A.S.Yakovlev Design Bureau вЂ“:вЂ“ company вЂ“:вЂ“ publications вЂ“:вЂ“ articles
> "According to Oleg Demchenko, the Yakovlev Design Bureau, in the last three years, under the order of China's AV1C-2 (Aviation Industry of China/Second Group), the company has provided consulting services and prepared a concept specification for the L-15 trainer, the development of which is carried out in China. This aircraft will replace the aging K-8 and will be able to compete on China's trainer market against the FTC-2000 aircraft being developed by AV1C-1.
> 
> As per O.Demchenko, the Russian company did not participate in designing and building the full-scale mockup of the L-15 aircraft, which is expected to make a demonstration flight at China Air Show-2004 in Zhuhai. The company only assisted in evaluating the concept of the supersonic operational trainer and did associated research and development work under that project.
> 
> «We are satisfied with cooperation with the Chinese party under the L-15 project and can't but note the very high professional skills of the Chinese aviation experts. It is not inconceivable that AVIC-2 will be able to continue to cooperate with us under the supersonic trainer program, in the implementation of which the Chinese experts also utilize our experience in building a subsonic Yak-130 aircraft,» - said Oleg Demchenko.
> 
> The world's current system of training combat pilots is based on using trainers of three classes, i.e. those for initial, basic and advanced training.
> 
> Placing emphasis on re-equipping its National Air Force with modern multi-role fighters, China needs now initial and advanced training aircraft.
> 
> By contrast to the concept of the subsonic advanced training aircraft adopted by the Russian Air Force, China opted for building a supersonic trainer of this type. "About 90% of combat pilot's total basic training procedure is spent on flying subsonic trainers that are cheaper to operate than supersonic types. The switch from subsonic trainers to supersonic operational aircraft in the course of advanced flight training takes up only 10% of the required training time" noted Oleg Demchenko.
> 
> Experts believe that demand for advanced trainers on China's defense market can be quite high. At the same time, they don't think that in the near term this will exceed 200 supersonic machines of L-15 type."
> 
> L-15, Yak-130 Jet Trainers Compete for Asian Buyers | Aviation International News
> December 7, 2012, 9:18 AM
> "Bangladesh and Vietnam are close to buying the Yakovlev Yak-130 advanced jet trainer, according to Russia’s weapons exporter, Rosoboronexport, but in other Asian countries the aircraft faces growing competition from China in the form of the Hongdu L-15. “There are no sales prospects for our aircraft in China, because the local engineers have developed their own design. Outwardly, the L-15 bears a distinct resemblance to the Yak-130,” said Sergei Kornev, head of the Rosoboronexport department for aviation.
> 
> Kornev said that Rosoboronexport still hopes to sell the Yak-130 to a number of Asian customers since it has “certain advantages over the Chinese product.” The L-15 is designed for supersonic speed, which makes it more difficult to operate and maintain. It needs a set of dedicated equipment at an operational airfield. The Yak-130 is subsonic and is capable of autonomous operations from temporary in-theater airfields, Kornev noted.
> 
> Meanwhile, at the recent Airshow China in Zhuhai, China Aero-Technology Export-Import (Catic) signed for 12 L-15s that will be delivered to an unspecified foreign customer."
> 
> Hongdu L-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> "
> View attachment 103064
> People's Republic of China
> 
> People's Liberation Army Air Force (First batch of L-15 is commissioned in a training center of PLAAF in EAST of China,and the quantity is not sure at the moment from public information)
> In November 2012, an order for twelve L-15s by an unknown customer was announced. They are due to be delivered in 2013.[6] This batch of L-15 is begun to be handed over to the customer on June 29, 2013.[7]
> View attachment 103065
> Zambia
> 
> Zambian Air Force - At least 6 was ordered by Zambian in Zhuhhai Air Show, 2012.
> 
> View attachment 103066
> Venezuela
> 
> Venezuela Air Force - Venezuela Defence Minister Carmen Meléndez Rivas revealed in April 2014, ordering 24 L-15. [8][9]"
> BAF can consider buying a small number of L-15, engines are same as yak-130, so maintenance would be very easy.
> 
> JF-17 block 1 is also fairly cheap with starting price at $15 million, which is same price as yak-130 and L-15. So this should be considered as well, because of its low cost and this one is a real fighter with 3600 kg pay load (yak-130 has 3000 kg, L-15 has 2000 kg payload and K-8 has 1000 kg) and top speed of 1370 mph.
> 
> So for BAF:
> - K-8 is the cheapest to operate single engine basic jet trainer, top speed 500 mph, payload 1000 kg
> - then we have yak-130 as twin engine advanced subsonic trainers, top speed 644 mph, payload 3000 kg
> - now we should get some L-15 as twin engine advanced supersonic (924 mph) trainers, top speed 924 mph, payload 2000 kg
> - and finally we should also get some JF-17 block-1 for low end fighter aircraft, also good for training at very high speed, top speed 1370 mph, payload 3600 kg
> 
> Mig 29's top speed is around 1500 mph, Mig 35 same top speed and J-10 is mach 2.2 or around 1450 mph.
> Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us -
> Military Aircraft Maximum Speeds


i posted this video few days ago






also check this










no need to go for JF-17, we have mig 35 option.


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## kalu_miah

BDforever said:


> i posted this video few days ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also check this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no need to go for JF-17, we have mig 35 option.



Yak-130 speed is limitation for high speed supersonic training, L-15 can do that job. And with same engine as Yak-130, it will be very easy to maintain along with other Chinese origin fighter F-7BGI.

JF-17 block 1 is same price as Yak-130 and L-15, $15 million a piece. It can be a good entry level fighter for BAF and we will have the option to upgrade to block 2 when the upgrade becomes cheap after introduction of block 3. At 20-25 million, block 2 could be our main entry level fighter, which we could have in large numbers.

Mig 35 is derived and improved version of Mig 29, and it will be a good choice for Bangladesh because we already have experience with Mig 29. But considering poor after sales service from Russia, I would prefer BAF to go for J-10B or FC-20. Both Mig 35 and FC-20 are in $35-40 million range.

Since we currently have no idea which one will be chosen as our main air superiority fighter, Mig 35 or J-10B/FC-20, this is another reason to get some L-15 trainer for training with Chinese avionics and armament systems.

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## Genesis

@kalu_miah

Recently I seen the forums, some are saying China is trying to induct 1000+ L-15s to revolutionize training methods, so stay tuned.

Could be a rumor, could be made up, could be anything, but it does sort of make sense.

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## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> Yak-130 speed is limitation for high speed supersonic training, L-15 can do that job. And with same engine as Yak-130, it will be very easy to maintain along with other Chinese origin fighter F-7BGI.
> 
> JF-17 block 1 is same price as Yak-130 and L-15, $15 million a piece. It can be a good entry level fighter for BAF and we will have the option to upgrade to block 2 when the upgrade becomes cheap after introduction of block 3. At 20-25 million, block 2 could be our main entry level fighter, which we could have in large numbers.
> 
> Mig 35 is derived and improved version of Mig 29, and it will be a good choice for Bangladesh because we already have experience with Mig 29. But considering poor after sales service from Russia, I would prefer BAF to go for J-10B or FC-20. Both Mig 35 and FC-20 are in $35-40 million range.
> 
> Since we currently have no idea which one will be chosen as our main air superiority fighter, Mig 35 or J-10B/FC-20, this is another reason to get some L-15 trainer for training with Chinese avionics and armament systems.


1. it is not just speed, yak-130 is more versatile than L-15. you must watch the first video.
hard points , max angle of attack better than L-15, payload is high.
2. JF-17 block 1 price will be about $20 million, the $15million price tag is for Pakistan and the price is old.
3. Mig 35 price is $30 million.


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## kalu_miah

BDforever said:


> 1. it is not just speed, yak-130 is more versatile than L-15. you must watch the first video.
> hard points , max angle of attack better than L-15, payload is high.
> 2. JF-17 block 1 price will be about $20 million, the $15million price tag is for Pakistan and the price is old.
> 3. Mig 35 price is $30 million.



1. I am no pilot, so I cannot give you definite answer, but supersonic speed and 280 mph higher speed sounds like a big advantage.
2. this seems true
3. not true, it is more like 40 million:
Mig-35
_"*Unitary Cost:*_* USD$40 million*"

Russian air force lifeline for near-dead MiG-35 - Rediff.com India News
"*Priced at approximately 40 million dollars a piece, this twin-engined aircraft, said to be a derivative of the MiG-29M fighter jet*, was a huge hope for the RAC-MiG Corp for generating revenues, and the loss in the Indian tender could even effect its chances of probable sales in other nations."

Russia takes India’s MMRCA decision calmly - Indian Punchline
"The Russian interpretation, on the whole, is that India has taken a well-thought out strategic decision in opting for the European aircraft, which is why *MiG-35 although the cheapest bid (around 40 million dollars per piece)* lost to Rafael although the French bid at 79.5 million dollars per aircraft was the most expensive bid."

I think Mig 35 is a great choice for Bangladesh for air superiority role, because Chinese production lines are too busy with J-10B production for PLAAF orders and Mikoyan cannot get export orders for Mig 35:
Russian Air Force to induct a hundred MiG-35 fighters after 2016 | Russia Beyond The Headlines

And BAF should not depend on only expensive air superiority fighters to gain sufficient numerical strength in its fleet, for that you will need cheaper multi-role fighters, "stop gap" F-7BGI will not cut it for this role in the future. This is where JF-17 comes in, where we can deploy it in large numbers at 20-25 million a piece, either block 1 or 2. Introduction of JF-17 in BAF will also increase our need to train with Chinese avionics and armaments (F-7BGI experience is not enough) and that will make it necessary to induct the L-15 trainers.

We also need to complete upgrading all our existing Mig 29 to SMT version.

So bottom line:
- I agree to Mig 35 as a great choice for air superiority fighter, we should start with at least 1 squadron of these, Yak-130's will be useful to train for all Mig's, 29 or 35, so existing 24 is enough for now
- I propose considering JF-17 block 1 or 2 as multi-role fighter in BAF, we should start with 1 squadron of these
- if JF-17 is accepted as the main multi-role fighter for BAF, then we should get 4 or 5 L-15 trainers

Once our pilots have the chance to fly these planes and the ground crew has the chance to maintain them, then further decisions should be made about which ones should be ordered next based on pilot and ground crew preference and consensus.

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## kalu_miah

Russian Defense Ministry Delays Deal on MiG-35 Jets – Report | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti

*Procurement: MiG-35 Matches The F-35 In Delays*

September 4, 2013: Russia recently announced that it would not, as earlier revealed, order 37 of its new (and still in development) MiG-35D fighters. Because of development problems, this order will now be delayed until 2016. The original price was to be about $29 million per aircraft.

Described as the equivalent of the American F-35, the MiG-35D would be the low-end to the high end T-50 (the Russian F-22). The T-50 is no F-22 and the MiG-35D is no F-35. The MiG-35D is a considerably redesigned MiG-29. The 29 ton MiG-35D is armed with one 30mm autocannon and can carry over (by how much is not yet clear) five tons of bombs. The big selling point for the MiG-35D is its offensive and defensive electronics, as well as sensors for finding targets on land or sea. This stuff looks very impressive on paper but the Russians have long had problems getting performance to match promises. This is particularly the case with the advanced electronics of the MiG-35D, which are running into problems because the F-35 electronics set a very high bar.

The 27 ton American F-35 is armed with an internal 25mm cannon and four internal air-to-air missiles (or two missiles and two smart bombs), plus four external smart bombs and two missiles. All sensors are carried internally, and max weapon load is 6.8 tons. The aircraft is very stealthy when just carrying internal weapons.

The MiG-35D has little stealth capability. The MiG-35D first flew six years ago, and there are currently about ten prototypes being used for testing and development work. The MiG-35D is expected to enter service some time before the end of the decade. The MiG-35D will sell for less than half of what the F-35 goes for (currently over $120 million each).


Russia, Egypt to discus MiG-35 fighter jets deal in October: Agency - Egypt - Ahram Online

Russia, Egypt to discus MiG-35 fighter jets deal in October: Agency
Deal with Russia comes amid speculation that Egypt may be reducing its military cooperation with the United States
Ahram Online, Monday 29 Sep 2014





File Photo: A MiG-35 jet performs a low pass during the MAKS-2009 international air show in Zhukovsky, Russia on August 21, 2009 (Photo: Reuters)





Russia plans to hold talks in Egypt next month over the latter’s planned purchase of MiG-35 fighter jets, reported Russian news agency ITAR-TASS on Monday.

“They [Egyptian representatives] visited our corporation. We hope that we will be invited to technical talks next month,” Director-General of Russia’s Aircraft Corporation MiG Sergei Korotkov said.

The deal, which is reportedly worth LE21 billion ($3 billion), was reported in February amid suggestions Egypt is aiming to reduce its military cooperation with the US, whose ties with the North African country took a turn after the ouster of Islamist president Mohamed Morsi last year.

In an interview during the last presidential election, however, Egypt’s president Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi, stressed that Egypt has always had strong ties with Russia and that this does not affect cooperation with the US.

Since signing a peace treaty with Israel in 1970, Egypt has been receiving some LE9.1 billion ($1.3 billion) in annual US military aid. Egypt had strong ties with Russia in the 1950s and 1960s, as the Soviet Union was the main supplier of arms to Egypt until the early 1970s.

After Morsi's ouster, the United States held the delivery of Apache helicopters but decided to lift its ban in April. The attack aircrafts are yet to be delivered, with El-Sisi calling on the US to send them in a recent televised interview with American station, CBS.

MiG-35 Fulcrum-F Multirole Fighter - Airforce Technology
*MiG-35 Fulcrum-F Multirole Fighter, Russia*




MiG-35 is a new export variant that combines the modern systems of the MiG-29M2 with an AESA radar. The fighter plane has the thrust vectoring of the MiG-29OVT as an additional option. Improved avionics and weapon systems, notably the new AESA radar and the uniquely designed optical locator system (OLS), make the aircraft less dependent on ground-controlled interception (GCI) systems and enables the MiG-35 to conduct independent multirole missions.

MiG-35 is compatible with Russian and foreign-origin weapons applications and an integrated variety of defensive systems to increase combat survivability. The fighter plane is being marketed globally under the designation MiG-35 (single seat) and MiG-35D (dual seat). MiG Corporation made their first official international MiG-35 presentation during Aero India 2007. MiG-35 Fulcrum-F is an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F).

*MiG-35 AESA radar*
MiG-35 will be the first Russian aircraft to be fitted with active electronically scanned array radar. The Zhuk-MA's antenna consists of 160 modules, each with four receive-and-transmit modules. It is believed to offer a 160km (85nm) air target detection radius and 300km for surface ships.

Like radar, OLS allows the MiG-35 to detect targets and aim weapon systems. But, unlike radar, OLS has no emissions, meaning it cannot be detected.

OLS works like a human eye by getting the picture and later analysing it. NII PP, the federal space agency science and research institute's engineers have chosen more short-wave bands for the matrix, which has increased sensitivity of the complex several times and has increased detection range.

"MiG-35 is a new export variant that combines the modern systems of the MiG-29M2 with an AESA radar."
The OLS on the MiG-35 is considered to help pilots to spot even the USAF's stealth planes. OLS includes a complex of powerful optics with IR vision that makes it impossible for any plane to hide.

OLS solves the problem of blurred vision. At speed, each piece of dust can cause harm to the glass of the OLS. The new OLS uses leuco-sapphire, the next-hardest material after artificial diamonds, making the lifetime for such glass much longer. According to NII PP engineers, leuco-sapphire is clear for all the OLS emissions and doesn't corrupt the signal, an important factor for the optical systems.

*MiG-35 engines*
The MiG-35 is powered by two RD-33MKBs that can be fitted with KliVT swivel-nozzles and a thrust vectoring control (TVC) system. The MiG-35's combination of TVC and advanced missile-warning sensors gives it the edge during combat.

RD-33 engines generate 7% more power compared to the baseline model due to the modern materials that go into the manufacturing of the cooled blades. The engines provide a higher-than-average thrust of 9,000kgf. RD-33 engines are smokeless and include systems that reduce infrared and optical visibility. The engines may be fitted with vectored-thrust nozzles, which would result in an improvement in combat efficiency.

Russia's developmental work on thrust vectoring started in 1980s. The Sukhoi and Saturn / Lyulka engine design bureaus led the way, and their efforts resulted in the Su-30 MKI aircraft. The MiG and Klimov engine bureaus began their work in the field of thrust vector engines a little later and aimed at all-aspect thrust vectoring, as opposed to Sukhoi / Saturn's two dimensional (horizontal / vertical) vectoring.

Klimov achieved all-aspect vectoring with the aid of three hydraulic actuators that deflect the nozzles, and are mounted at 120A° intervals around the engine nacelle. This enabled MiG-35 to fly at very low speeds without angle-of-attack limitations, and ensured that it will also remain controllable in zero-speed and 'negative-speed' (tail-forward) areas for sustained periods.

*Manoeuvrability*
The MiG-35 is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter, which was shown for the first time in August 2005 during the MAKS Air Show outside Moscow. The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring control engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior manoeuvrability and enhance the fighter's performance in close air-to-air engagements.

The MiG-35 presents super-manoeuvrability, a capability to fly at supercritical angles of attack at increased level of sustained and available g-loads and high turn-angle rate, which requires a greater thrust-to-weight ratio and improved wing aerodynamic efficiency.

"The MiG-35 is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter."
*MiG-35 weapons*
The aircraft's suite of guided weapons includes Kh-31A anti-ship missiles with active radar seekers, the Kh-31P anti-radar missiles, Kh-29TE missiles and KAB-500Kr TV-guided bombs. Added, when equipped with an external optical / laser targeting pod, the fighter can use the Kh-29L air-to-surface missiles and KAB-500L laser-guided bombs. These weapons will allow the aircraft to engage aerial and land targets.

Italy-based Elettronica signed an agreement with Mikoyan in 2007 to support in incorporating ELT/568(V)2 self-protection jammer in the MiG-35. The jammer renders self defence from radar controlled anti-aircraft artillery.

*Refuelling*
An addition of a strap-on tank behind the cockpit has allowed MiG-35 to have a higher internal fuel capacity of 950l. The capacity of the external fuel tank suspended under the fuselage has increased up to 2,000l. Ferry range with three external fuel tanks has also been increased, rising to 3,100km, and with one in-flight refuelling the range will be 5,400km.

The fuel management system has also been digitised, and includes a new digital fuel metering system.

*Aero India 2007 launch*
The final version of MiG-35 was displayed for the first time at Aero India 2007. The prototype of the MiG-35 had been shown to the public in 2005 at air shows in Russia and the UK. MiG-35 is a contender to the Eurofighter Typhoon, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, JAS 39 Gripen and F-16 Falcon for the bid of more than 126 multirole combat aircraft worth $10bn to be procured by the Indian Air Force in Indian MRCA competition.

Mikoyan will commence production of the MiG-35 fighter at the Sokol aviation plant in Russia in 2013 or 2014 as part of the bid.

*Performance*
The MiG-35 can climb at the rate of 330m/s. Its maximum speed is 2,400km/h. The normal and ferry range of the aircraft are 2,000km and 3,100km respectively. The service ceiling is 17,500m. The aircraft weighs around 11,000kg and its maximum take-off weight is 29,700kg.

- MiG-35/MiG-35D

PRODUCTSMILITARY PROGRAMS

MiG-35/MiG-35D

The MiG-35 (single seat) and MiG-35D (double seat) are the "4++" generation multi-role fighters, exhibiting the further development of the MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 fighters in the field of the combat efficiency enhancement, universality and operational characteristics improvement.

The MiG-35/MiG-35D main features are the following:
– the fifth generation information-sighting systems integration into aircraft airborne avionics;
– possibility of advanced Russian and foreign origin weapons application;
– increased combat survivability due to integration of airborne integrated defense system.

State-of-the art avionics in combination with advanced weapons allow the MiG-35/MiG-35D fighters fulfill a great number of missions:
– air superiority gaining against four & fifth generation fighters;
– interception of existing and being developed air attack means;
– ground/surface targets destruction with high precision weapons without entering the air defense zone day and night in any weather conditions;
– air reconnaissance using optical-electronic and radio-technical equipment;
– participation in group actions and air control over groups of fighters.

The MiG-35/MiG-35D fighters structure is based upon the following achievements obtained on the MiG-29K/KUB, MiG-29M/M2 aircraft:
– increased weapons load stored at nine external stations;
– increased fuel capacity, in-flight refueling and possibility of using as a tanker;
– airframe & main systems anti-corrosion protection technology which meets the standards developed for carrier-based aircraft thus simplifying fighters operation in tropical weather conditions;
– significantly reduced radar signature;
– three channel fly-by-wire control system with quadruple redundancy.

In the course of the MiG-35 aircraft development the most attention was paid to operational characteristics improvement:
– reliability of aircraft, engines and avionics is significantly increased;
– lifetime and service life are extended;
– mean time between overhauls (MTBO) of engines is increased;
– the MiG-35 aircraft flight hour cost is almost 2.5 times lower than those of the MiG-29 fighter;
– the MiG-35 aircraft is intended for the on-condition maintenance.

The complex of technical and technological solutions has been developed for the MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft which provides for independent operation, like airborne oxygen generation plant.

The power plant includes two engines RD-33MK with increased thrust power, equipped with smokeless combustion chamber and new electronic control system (of FADEC type). Engines are of the module structure and have increased reliability and service life.

Upon customer request the fighters can be equipped with "all aspect" thrust vectored RD-33MK engines ensuring the aircraft superiority in the maneuvering dogfight. The power plant of two thrust vectored engines was tested on the super-maneuverable prototype-aircraft MiG-29M OVT.

The airborne avionics of the MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft is developed on the basis of the new generation technologies.

The multi-role radar with active phased array provides for advantage over the competitors due to the following factors:
– extended range of operating frequencies;
– increased quantity of detected, tracked and attacked targets;
– possibility of simultaneous attack of air and ground targets;
– extended detection range;
– enhanced resolution in the surface mapping mode;
– high jamming protection and survivability.

The IRST system with infra-red, TV and laser sighting equipment has been developed using the space technologies which were not applied previously in aviation. The system distinctive features are the increased range, detection, tracking, identification and lock-on of air, ground/surface targets in the forward and rear hemispheres, at day and night measuring the distance with laser range-finder as well as the formation of target designation and laser illumination of ground targets. The IRST system and new helmet-mounted target designation system are integrated into the armament control system. In addition to the built-in IRST system the MiG-35 aircraft is equipped with a podded one.

The MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft is provided with a defense system including in particular:
– radio electronic reconnaissance and electronic counter measures;
– optronic systems for detection of attacking missiles and laser emission;
– decoy dispensers to counteract the enemy in the radar and infrared ranges.

In addition to the "A-A" and "A-S" class weapons applied on the MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 aircraft the advanced aircraft armament, which have not been offered earlier for export, is being included into the MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft weapons. The long range weapons capable to attack targets without approaching the air defence zone are among them.

Avionics’ open architecture allows installation on aircraft of new equipment and weapons of Russian and foreign origin upon customer’s request.

Both the single and double seat versions of aircraft have the same airborne equipment and weapons as well as the high unification level of structure.

For the MiG-35/MiG-35D fighters the full set of training means was developed including the interactive computer-based training system and a number of simulators including the full-mission simulator with a motion system.

The basic version of the MiG-35/MiG-35D fighter is designed taking into account the international cooperation organization when developing new modifications of aircraft and during serial production.


----------



## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> Russian Defense Ministry Delays Deal on MiG-35 Jets – Report | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti
> 
> *Procurement: MiG-35 Matches The F-35 In Delays*
> 
> September 4, 2013: Russia recently announced that it would not, as earlier revealed, order 37 of its new (and still in development) MiG-35D fighters. Because of development problems, this order will now be delayed until 2016. The original price was to be about $29 million per aircraft.
> 
> Described as the equivalent of the American F-35, the MiG-35D would be the low-end to the high end T-50 (the Russian F-22). The T-50 is no F-22 and the MiG-35D is no F-35. The MiG-35D is a considerably redesigned MiG-29. The 29 ton MiG-35D is armed with one 30mm autocannon and can carry over (by how much is not yet clear) five tons of bombs. The big selling point for the MiG-35D is its offensive and defensive electronics, as well as sensors for finding targets on land or sea. This stuff looks very impressive on paper but the Russians have long had problems getting performance to match promises. This is particularly the case with the advanced electronics of the MiG-35D, which are running into problems because the F-35 electronics set a very high bar.
> 
> The 27 ton American F-35 is armed with an internal 25mm cannon and four internal air-to-air missiles (or two missiles and two smart bombs), plus four external smart bombs and two missiles. All sensors are carried internally, and max weapon load is 6.8 tons. The aircraft is very stealthy when just carrying internal weapons.
> 
> The MiG-35D has little stealth capability. The MiG-35D first flew six years ago, and there are currently about ten prototypes being used for testing and development work. The MiG-35D is expected to enter service some time before the end of the decade. The MiG-35D will sell for less than half of what the F-35 goes for (currently over $120 million each).
> 
> 
> Russia, Egypt to discus MiG-35 fighter jets deal in October: Agency - Egypt - Ahram Online
> 
> Russia, Egypt to discus MiG-35 fighter jets deal in October: Agency
> Deal with Russia comes amid speculation that Egypt may be reducing its military cooperation with the United States
> Ahram Online, Monday 29 Sep 2014
> 
> View attachment 103384
> 
> File Photo: A MiG-35 jet performs a low pass during the MAKS-2009 international air show in Zhukovsky, Russia on August 21, 2009 (Photo: Reuters)
> 
> View attachment 103385
> 
> Russia plans to hold talks in Egypt next month over the latter’s planned purchase of MiG-35 fighter jets, reported Russian news agency ITAR-TASS on Monday.
> 
> “They [Egyptian representatives] visited our corporation. We hope that we will be invited to technical talks next month,” Director-General of Russia’s Aircraft Corporation MiG Sergei Korotkov said.
> 
> The deal, which is reportedly worth LE21 billion ($3 billion), was reported in February amid suggestions Egypt is aiming to reduce its military cooperation with the US, whose ties with the North African country took a turn after the ouster of Islamist president Mohamed Morsi last year.
> 
> In an interview during the last presidential election, however, Egypt’s president Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi, stressed that Egypt has always had strong ties with Russia and that this does not affect cooperation with the US.
> 
> Since signing a peace treaty with Israel in 1970, Egypt has been receiving some LE9.1 billion ($1.3 billion) in annual US military aid. Egypt had strong ties with Russia in the 1950s and 1960s, as the Soviet Union was the main supplier of arms to Egypt until the early 1970s.
> 
> After Morsi's ouster, the United States held the delivery of Apache helicopters but decided to lift its ban in April. The attack aircrafts are yet to be delivered, with El-Sisi calling on the US to send them in a recent televised interview with American station, CBS.
> 
> MiG-35 Fulcrum-F Multirole Fighter - Airforce Technology
> *MiG-35 Fulcrum-F Multirole Fighter, Russia*
> 
> View attachment 103386
> 
> 
> MiG-35 is a new export variant that combines the modern systems of the MiG-29M2 with an AESA radar. The fighter plane has the thrust vectoring of the MiG-29OVT as an additional option. Improved avionics and weapon systems, notably the new AESA radar and the uniquely designed optical locator system (OLS), make the aircraft less dependent on ground-controlled interception (GCI) systems and enables the MiG-35 to conduct independent multirole missions.
> 
> MiG-35 is compatible with Russian and foreign-origin weapons applications and an integrated variety of defensive systems to increase combat survivability. The fighter plane is being marketed globally under the designation MiG-35 (single seat) and MiG-35D (dual seat). MiG Corporation made their first official international MiG-35 presentation during Aero India 2007. MiG-35 Fulcrum-F is an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F).
> 
> *MiG-35 AESA radar*
> MiG-35 will be the first Russian aircraft to be fitted with active electronically scanned array radar. The Zhuk-MA's antenna consists of 160 modules, each with four receive-and-transmit modules. It is believed to offer a 160km (85nm) air target detection radius and 300km for surface ships.
> 
> Like radar, OLS allows the MiG-35 to detect targets and aim weapon systems. But, unlike radar, OLS has no emissions, meaning it cannot be detected.
> 
> OLS works like a human eye by getting the picture and later analysing it. NII PP, the federal space agency science and research institute's engineers have chosen more short-wave bands for the matrix, which has increased sensitivity of the complex several times and has increased detection range.
> 
> "MiG-35 is a new export variant that combines the modern systems of the MiG-29M2 with an AESA radar."
> The OLS on the MiG-35 is considered to help pilots to spot even the USAF's stealth planes. OLS includes a complex of powerful optics with IR vision that makes it impossible for any plane to hide.
> 
> OLS solves the problem of blurred vision. At speed, each piece of dust can cause harm to the glass of the OLS. The new OLS uses leuco-sapphire, the next-hardest material after artificial diamonds, making the lifetime for such glass much longer. According to NII PP engineers, leuco-sapphire is clear for all the OLS emissions and doesn't corrupt the signal, an important factor for the optical systems.
> 
> *MiG-35 engines*
> The MiG-35 is powered by two RD-33MKBs that can be fitted with KliVT swivel-nozzles and a thrust vectoring control (TVC) system. The MiG-35's combination of TVC and advanced missile-warning sensors gives it the edge during combat.
> 
> RD-33 engines generate 7% more power compared to the baseline model due to the modern materials that go into the manufacturing of the cooled blades. The engines provide a higher-than-average thrust of 9,000kgf. RD-33 engines are smokeless and include systems that reduce infrared and optical visibility. The engines may be fitted with vectored-thrust nozzles, which would result in an improvement in combat efficiency.
> 
> Russia's developmental work on thrust vectoring started in 1980s. The Sukhoi and Saturn / Lyulka engine design bureaus led the way, and their efforts resulted in the Su-30 MKI aircraft. The MiG and Klimov engine bureaus began their work in the field of thrust vector engines a little later and aimed at all-aspect thrust vectoring, as opposed to Sukhoi / Saturn's two dimensional (horizontal / vertical) vectoring.
> 
> Klimov achieved all-aspect vectoring with the aid of three hydraulic actuators that deflect the nozzles, and are mounted at 120A° intervals around the engine nacelle. This enabled MiG-35 to fly at very low speeds without angle-of-attack limitations, and ensured that it will also remain controllable in zero-speed and 'negative-speed' (tail-forward) areas for sustained periods.
> 
> *Manoeuvrability*
> The MiG-35 is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter, which was shown for the first time in August 2005 during the MAKS Air Show outside Moscow. The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring control engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior manoeuvrability and enhance the fighter's performance in close air-to-air engagements.
> 
> The MiG-35 presents super-manoeuvrability, a capability to fly at supercritical angles of attack at increased level of sustained and available g-loads and high turn-angle rate, which requires a greater thrust-to-weight ratio and improved wing aerodynamic efficiency.
> 
> "The MiG-35 is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter."
> *MiG-35 weapons*
> The aircraft's suite of guided weapons includes Kh-31A anti-ship missiles with active radar seekers, the Kh-31P anti-radar missiles, Kh-29TE missiles and KAB-500Kr TV-guided bombs. Added, when equipped with an external optical / laser targeting pod, the fighter can use the Kh-29L air-to-surface missiles and KAB-500L laser-guided bombs. These weapons will allow the aircraft to engage aerial and land targets.
> 
> Italy-based Elettronica signed an agreement with Mikoyan in 2007 to support in incorporating ELT/568(V)2 self-protection jammer in the MiG-35. The jammer renders self defence from radar controlled anti-aircraft artillery.
> 
> *Refuelling*
> An addition of a strap-on tank behind the cockpit has allowed MiG-35 to have a higher internal fuel capacity of 950l. The capacity of the external fuel tank suspended under the fuselage has increased up to 2,000l. Ferry range with three external fuel tanks has also been increased, rising to 3,100km, and with one in-flight refuelling the range will be 5,400km.
> 
> The fuel management system has also been digitised, and includes a new digital fuel metering system.
> 
> *Aero India 2007 launch*
> The final version of MiG-35 was displayed for the first time at Aero India 2007. The prototype of the MiG-35 had been shown to the public in 2005 at air shows in Russia and the UK. MiG-35 is a contender to the Eurofighter Typhoon, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, JAS 39 Gripen and F-16 Falcon for the bid of more than 126 multirole combat aircraft worth $10bn to be procured by the Indian Air Force in Indian MRCA competition.
> 
> Mikoyan will commence production of the MiG-35 fighter at the Sokol aviation plant in Russia in 2013 or 2014 as part of the bid.
> 
> *Performance*
> The MiG-35 can climb at the rate of 330m/s. Its maximum speed is 2,400km/h. The normal and ferry range of the aircraft are 2,000km and 3,100km respectively. The service ceiling is 17,500m. The aircraft weighs around 11,000kg and its maximum take-off weight is 29,700kg.
> 
> - MiG-35/MiG-35D
> 
> PRODUCTSMILITARY PROGRAMS
> 
> MiG-35/MiG-35D
> 
> The MiG-35 (single seat) and MiG-35D (double seat) are the "4++" generation multi-role fighters, exhibiting the further development of the MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 fighters in the field of the combat efficiency enhancement, universality and operational characteristics improvement.
> 
> The MiG-35/MiG-35D main features are the following:
> – the fifth generation information-sighting systems integration into aircraft airborne avionics;
> – possibility of advanced Russian and foreign origin weapons application;
> – increased combat survivability due to integration of airborne integrated defense system.
> 
> State-of-the art avionics in combination with advanced weapons allow the MiG-35/MiG-35D fighters fulfill a great number of missions:
> – air superiority gaining against four & fifth generation fighters;
> – interception of existing and being developed air attack means;
> – ground/surface targets destruction with high precision weapons without entering the air defense zone day and night in any weather conditions;
> – air reconnaissance using optical-electronic and radio-technical equipment;
> – participation in group actions and air control over groups of fighters.
> 
> The MiG-35/MiG-35D fighters structure is based upon the following achievements obtained on the MiG-29K/KUB, MiG-29M/M2 aircraft:
> – increased weapons load stored at nine external stations;
> – increased fuel capacity, in-flight refueling and possibility of using as a tanker;
> – airframe & main systems anti-corrosion protection technology which meets the standards developed for carrier-based aircraft thus simplifying fighters operation in tropical weather conditions;
> – significantly reduced radar signature;
> – three channel fly-by-wire control system with quadruple redundancy.
> 
> In the course of the MiG-35 aircraft development the most attention was paid to operational characteristics improvement:
> – reliability of aircraft, engines and avionics is significantly increased;
> – lifetime and service life are extended;
> – mean time between overhauls (MTBO) of engines is increased;
> – the MiG-35 aircraft flight hour cost is almost 2.5 times lower than those of the MiG-29 fighter;
> – the MiG-35 aircraft is intended for the on-condition maintenance.
> 
> The complex of technical and technological solutions has been developed for the MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft which provides for independent operation, like airborne oxygen generation plant.
> 
> The power plant includes two engines RD-33MK with increased thrust power, equipped with smokeless combustion chamber and new electronic control system (of FADEC type). Engines are of the module structure and have increased reliability and service life.
> 
> Upon customer request the fighters can be equipped with "all aspect" thrust vectored RD-33MK engines ensuring the aircraft superiority in the maneuvering dogfight. The power plant of two thrust vectored engines was tested on the super-maneuverable prototype-aircraft MiG-29M OVT.
> 
> The airborne avionics of the MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft is developed on the basis of the new generation technologies.
> 
> The multi-role radar with active phased array provides for advantage over the competitors due to the following factors:
> – extended range of operating frequencies;
> – increased quantity of detected, tracked and attacked targets;
> – possibility of simultaneous attack of air and ground targets;
> – extended detection range;
> – enhanced resolution in the surface mapping mode;
> – high jamming protection and survivability.
> 
> The IRST system with infra-red, TV and laser sighting equipment has been developed using the space technologies which were not applied previously in aviation. The system distinctive features are the increased range, detection, tracking, identification and lock-on of air, ground/surface targets in the forward and rear hemispheres, at day and night measuring the distance with laser range-finder as well as the formation of target designation and laser illumination of ground targets. The IRST system and new helmet-mounted target designation system are integrated into the armament control system. In addition to the built-in IRST system the MiG-35 aircraft is equipped with a podded one.
> 
> The MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft is provided with a defense system including in particular:
> – radio electronic reconnaissance and electronic counter measures;
> – optronic systems for detection of attacking missiles and laser emission;
> – decoy dispensers to counteract the enemy in the radar and infrared ranges.
> 
> In addition to the "A-A" and "A-S" class weapons applied on the MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 aircraft the advanced aircraft armament, which have not been offered earlier for export, is being included into the MiG-35/MiG-35D aircraft weapons. The long range weapons capable to attack targets without approaching the air defence zone are among them.
> 
> Avionics’ open architecture allows installation on aircraft of new equipment and weapons of Russian and foreign origin upon customer’s request.
> 
> Both the single and double seat versions of aircraft have the same airborne equipment and weapons as well as the high unification level of structure.
> 
> For the MiG-35/MiG-35D fighters the full set of training means was developed including the interactive computer-based training system and a number of simulators including the full-mission simulator with a motion system.
> 
> The basic version of the MiG-35/MiG-35D fighter is designed taking into account the international cooperation organization when developing new modifications of aircraft and during serial production.


1. i know Mig 35 info very well.
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopter-airplane/Mikoyan-MIG-35/375 good source of pricing.
and recently Russia offered Mig 35 to Serbia below $30 million price.
2. JF-17 will not give you air superiority. it is second layer of air defence aircraft. try to understand that. number of aircraft is not important if it does not serve the purpose.


----------



## kalu_miah

@Bilal9 Please look at posts from last page from #1349 till above and please comment:

- I agree to Mig 35 as a great choice for air superiority fighter, we should start with at least 1 squadron of these, Yak-130's will be useful to train for all Mig's, 29 or 35, so existing 24 is enough for now
- I propose considering JF-17 block 1 or 2 as multi-role fighter in BAF, we should start with 1 squadron of these
- if JF-17 is accepted as the main multi-role fighter for BAF, then we should get 4 or 5 L-15 trainers

Source: Bangladesh Air Force | Page 91

For heavy payload air superiority fighter, I also recommend some Su 35.

We should move to Chinese 5th gen fighters after few decades in the future. For now above should be our mainstay.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> @Bilal9 Please look at posts from last page from #1349 till above and please comment:
> 
> - I agree to Mig 35 as a great choice for air superiority fighter, we should start with at least 1 squadron of these, Yak-130's will be useful to train for all Mig's, 29 or 35, so existing 24 is enough for now
> - I propose considering JF-17 block 1 or 2 as multi-role fighter in BAF, we should start with 1 squadron of these
> - if JF-17 is accepted as the main multi-role fighter for BAF, then we should get 4 or 5 L-15 trainers
> 
> Source: Bangladesh Air Force | Page 91
> 
> For heavy payload air superiority fighter, I also recommend some Su 35.
> 
> We should move to Chinese 5th gen fighters after few decades in the future. For now above should be our mainstay.


JF-17 is 2nd line multi-role, even Mig 35 can be called multirole if you compare it with JF-17

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## kalu_miah

BDforever said:


> JF-17 is 2nd line multi-role, even Mig 35 can be called multirole if you compare it with JF-17



Air superiority fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Multirole combat aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Air superiority vs strike fighter - Modern Military Aircraft
Air superiority fighters

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1


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## BDforever

kalu_miah said:


> Air superiority fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Multirole combat aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Air superiority vs strike fighter - Modern Military Aircraft
> Air superiority fighters


LOL LOL 

now go check weapon systems used by Mig 35 and Jf-17 , their radars
etc
no need to give me definition lol


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## NDLS

i like bangladesh


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## 帅的一匹



Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Zabaniyah

kalu_miah said:


> @Bilal9 Please look at posts from last page from #1349 till above and please comment:
> 
> - I agree to Mig 35 as a great choice for air superiority fighter, we should start with at least 1 squadron of these, Yak-130's will be useful to train for all Mig's, 29 or 35, so existing 24 is enough for now
> - I propose considering JF-17 block 1 or 2 as multi-role fighter in BAF, we should start with 1 squadron of these
> - if JF-17 is accepted as the main multi-role fighter for BAF, then we should get 4 or 5 L-15 trainers
> 
> Source: Bangladesh Air Force | Page 91
> 
> For heavy payload air superiority fighter, I also recommend some Su 35.
> 
> We should move to Chinese 5th gen fighters after few decades in the future. For now above should be our mainstay.



Bangladesh doesn't need air-superiority aircraft. Multi-role would fit the bill. Both the MiG-35 and Su-35 are multi-roles. 

Why would we even want Russian planes? Those R-27's are garbage.


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## kalu_miah

BAF should also get a couple of smaller AWACs planes like ZDK-03. PAF ordered 4 of these:
PLA-AF Airborne Early Warning & Control Programs

The PLA has two other AEW&C development programs under way at this time, with multiple photographs now circulating on the Internet.







_The Y-8 (An-12 Cub) AEW&C prototype using a conventional radar and rotodome. This design was recently exported to Pakistan, as the ZDK-03, on a new airframe (via Internet).










Production ZDK-03 AEW&C system, dubbed the Karakorum Eagle, one of four systems exported to Pakistan on the late production Shaanxi Y-8 airframe. The unusual camouflage is modelled on the USAF MC-2A proposal and is optimal for high altitude ISR aircraft (PAF).






The first is a conventional radar using a rotodome, the installation mounted on a Shaanxi Y-8 (An-12 Cub) transport. The resulting AEW&C system is in the class of the C-130H and P-3B AEW&C systems built by Lockheed-Martin using the APS-145 UHF radar from the E-2C. As no images are available showing the exposed main antenna, it is impossible to draw conclusions about radar operating wavelength and antenna gain and sidelobe performance. The airframe is a 'classic' Y-8 Cub, with additional vertical stabilisers on the tips of the horizontal tails._



Loki said:


> Bangladesh doesn't need air-superiority aircraft. Multi-role would fit the bill. Both the MiG-35 and Su-35 are multi-roles.
> 
> Why would we even want Russian planes? Those R-27's are garbage.



Role depends on the specific theater, country and air force. Same fighter plane can play many different roles. Russian planes are cheap and that is what we have experience with. Chinese planes would be better, but they are not ready yet for export. I am hoping that we will transition from Mig 35 and Su 35 to J-31, in 10-15 years.


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## 45'22'

BDforever said:


> LOL LOL
> 
> now go check weapon systems used by Mig 35 and Jf-17 , their radars
> etc
> no need to give me definition lol


How many fighters are u guys planning to buy and the timeframe??

I think mig 35 will do the job for bdaf


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## damiendehorn

45'22' said:


> How many fighters are u guys planning to buy and the timeframe??
> 
> I think mig 35 will do the job for bdaf



Depends on which government is in power in the next 5-10 years. Its obvious from the purchases made by the AL gov they want to buy russian aircraft either mig 35 or any flavors of the SUs.

K8 > Yak 130 > mig 35 or su 30

If the gov changes by then its prob that the purchase may be either russian or chinese.

K8 > Yak 130 > j10 or/and j31 (if that aircraft is available by 2025)

I doubt we will recieve any major fighters before 2020, remember we just got the K8s and it will be a few years before we get the yaks, time to integrate the aircrafts into the BAF, time to train fighter pilots, then there is time required for negotiations to buy new fighter etc.

As for the numbers, that will depend on what the economy is like, which gov is in power and which aircraft is chosen. Expect some where between 36 and 48.

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## 45'22'

damiendehorn said:


> Depends on which government is in power in the next 5-10 years. Its obvious from the purchases made by the AL gov they want to buy russian aircraft either mig 35 or any flavors of the SUs.
> 
> K8 > Yak 130 > mig 35 or su 30
> 
> If the gov changes by then its prob that the purchase may be either russian or chinese.
> 
> K8 > Yak 130 > j10 or/and j31 (if that aircraft is available by 2025)
> 
> I doubt we will recieve any major fighters before 2020, remember we just got the K8s and it will be a few years before we get the yaks, time to integrate the aircrafts into the BAF, time to train fighter pilots, then there is time required for negotiations to buy new fighter etc.
> 
> As for the numbers, that will depend on what the economy is like, which gov is in power and which aircraft is chosen. Expect some where between 36 and 48.


At one point u r saying u can go for k-8 or yak 130 .......at another point u r saying mig35 or sukhois.......
You know na these are different classes of fighters.......
I mean the first 2 are trainers.....

Is there any specific requirement for BAF like a2g,or point defence or air superiority or light,medium,heavy. 

2 squadrons of mig 35 would cost you a big deal +They have high maintenance cost.....

I don't think j31 would be available for you guys

So I think BAF might go with the k-8 or yak 130 .........these are cheap and will suit ur requirements


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## damiendehorn

45'22' said:


> At one point u r saying u can go for k-8 or yak 130 .......at another point u r saying mig35 or sukhois.......
> You know na these are different classes of fighters.......
> I mean the first 2 are trainers.....
> 
> Is there any specific requirement for BAF like a2g,or point defence or air superiority or light,medium,heavy.
> 
> 2 squadrons of mig 35 would cost you a big deal +They have high maintenance cost.....
> 
> I don't think j31 would be available for you guys
> 
> So I think BAF might go with the k-8 or yak 130 .........these are cheap and will suit ur requirements



You have completely misunderstood it.

We are not buying either k8 or yak130, we have already bought them!

8 K8s for intermediate training, plus 24 yak 130s for advanced training. In around 2020 or 2025 the BAF has a requirement for advanced fighters, the BAF is already looking into the type, the options are either j10, mig35, su30 or a mix of them. The numbers are between 36-48 depending on type, these will augment the existing 8 mig29s that are being upgraded to SMT standard.

The j31s are a private venture for export, so they will be available but pricey.

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## UKBengali

damiendehorn said:


> You have completely misunderstood it.
> 
> We are not buying either k8 or yak130, we have already bought them!
> 
> 8 K8s for intermediate training, plus 24 yak 130s for advanced training. In around 2020 or 2025 the BAF has a requirement for advanced fighters, the BAF is already looking into the type, the options are either j10, mig35, su30 or a mix of them. The numbers are between 36-48 depending on type, these will augment the existing 8 mig29s that are being upgraded to SMT standard.
> 
> The j31s are a private venture for export, so they will be available but pricey.




I think if BD does buy J-31s then they will be procured from 2025 onwards. There will be an order for 36-48 fourth generation aircraft before then.

Ignore the Indian who is trying to slyly troll. He is claiming that an order for 2 squadrons(24) Mig-35s may not be affordable for BD whose economy is nearing 200 billion dollars these days and growing at 6-7% a year consistently.

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## 45'22'

UKBengali said:


> I think if BD does buy J-31s then they will be procured from 2025 onwards. There will be an order for 36-48 fourth generation aircraft before then.
> 
> Ignore the Indian who is trying to slyly troll. He is claiming that an order for 2 squadrons(24) Mig-35s may not be affordable for BD whose economy is nearing 200 billion dollars these days and growing at 6-7% a year consistently.


The intention was not to troll
U can compare the price of 2 squadron of mig 35 or sukhois with ur defence budget.......u will understand it's not realistic.....that's why I asked the timeframe.......Anyways if you guys are planning it beyond 2025 then it luks possible


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## 45'22'

damiendehorn said:


> You have completely misunderstood it.
> 
> We are not buying either k8 or yak130, we have already bought them!
> 
> 8 K8s for intermediate training, plus 24 yak 130s for advanced training. In around 2020 or 2025 the BAF has a requirement for advanced fighters, the BAF is already looking into the type, the options are either j10, mig35, su30 or a mix of them. The numbers are between 36-48 depending on type, these will augment the existing 8 mig29s that are being upgraded to SMT standard.
> 
> The j31s are a private venture for export, so they will be available but pricey.


Okay nice


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## UKBengali

45'22' said:


> The intention was not to troll
> U can compare the price of 2 squadron of mig 35 or sukhois with ur defence budget.......u will understand it's not realistic.....that's why I asked the timeframe.......Anyways if you guys are planning it beyond 2025 then it luks possible



Ok. Maybe I read something between the lines that I should not

I think 36-48 fourth generation fighters between now and up to 2025. Then similar numbers of fifth generation aircraft would be procured after this date - Chinese J-31 is likely to be the favourite for both cost and strategic reasons.

BD defence budget is not as small as people think. When taking into account weapons purchases from abroad, which is not part of the official defence budget, it is now 3 billion dollars and year and it is growing in line with the pace of the economy,. It is sure to top 5 billion dollars a year by 2020.

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## Zabaniyah

kalu_miah said:


> Role depends on the specific theater, country and air force. *Same fighter plane can play many different roles.* Russian planes are cheap and that is what we have experience with. Chinese planes would be better, but they are not ready yet for export. I am hoping that we will transition from Mig 35 and Su 35 to J-31, in 10-15 years.



That is what a multi-role is all about.


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## Icewolf

BD can get new JF-17 BLK 2. But India will not allow it


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## damiendehorn

Icewolf said:


> BD can get new JF-17 BLK 2. But India will not allow it



How would india not allow it? Anyway we already know the BAF are looking at 36-48 Mig35, J10, or Su30 as their front line fighters for the next decade. The BAF evaluated the Migs but decided to defer buying fighters, instead buy 8 intermediate K8 trainers and 24 yak130 advanced trainers.

The BAF are trying to get the process right, no point buying fighters without having the pilots, engineers, admin etc in place. Dont expect to see new fighters in BAF colours before 2018-2020, its going to take time to get everything in place.


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## BDforever



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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


>



Super Family shot! All operational types (except the melange of various training types of course).


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## BDforever

cool pics of K-8w

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## BDforever



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## BDforever



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## 45'22'

BDforever said:


> View attachment 142406


Ur trainer????


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## BDforever

45'22' said:


> Ur trainer????


yes, newly purchased

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## 45'22'

BDforever said:


> yes, newly purchased


How many
It's the only trainer
Or use guys have any other trainer also


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## BDforever

45'22' said:


> How many
> It's the only trainer
> Or use guys have any other trainer also


9 of it, more advance trainers are coming, 24 unit of yak130


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## 45'22'

BDforever said:


> 9 of it, more advance trainers are coming, 24 unit of yak130


Yak130 is a very gud trainer
Could be armed also 
nice buy by RAWami


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## BDforever



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## tntcfive

good news yak-130 will come 2nd half of
2015.Russia to start deliveries of Yak-130
operational trainers to Bangladesh in 2015Russian
Aviaton » Wednesday April 23, 2014 17:58
MSKNext year Russia will start deliveries of
Yak-130 operational trainers to Bangladesh under
a contract for 16 jets ofthe type, Voenno-promishl
enniy Courier reports with reference to Director for
Special Commissions of Rosoboronexportand the
head of the company’s delegationat DSA-2014,
Nikolay Dimidyuk.«We have signed the contract
recently; Irkut Corporation is the main contractor.
The deliveries will be started in the second half of
2015», - the source said. Hereminded that
Yak-130 jets will be purchased by Bangladesh in
the network of a $1 billion credit granted by
Russia and intended for purchase of military
equipment.«We have sold 16 jets of the type to
Bangladesh and many APAC countries
areinterested in Yak-130, because it has proven
itself under severe conditions», - Dimidyuk
added.Rosoboronexport reported earlier that the
company is negotiating deliveries of Yak-130 jets
to 10 countries. Experts believe that successful
promotion of Yak-130 at the global market is
connected with the fact that Russian air forces
have put the jet into service. Under the
contractsigned in December 2011 by Russian
Ministry of Defense and Irkut Corporation 55
Yak-130s must be delivered to the air forces
during a period until 2015.

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## BDforever

tntcfive said:


> good news yak-130 will come 2nd half of
> 2015.Russia to start deliveries of Yak-130
> operational trainers to Bangladesh in 2015Russian
> Aviaton » Wednesday April 23, 2014 17:58
> MSKNext year Russia will start deliveries of
> Yak-130 operational trainers to Bangladesh under
> a contract for 16 jets ofthe type, Voenno-promishl
> enniy Courier reports with reference to Director for
> Special Commissions of Rosoboronexportand the
> head of the company’s delegationat DSA-2014,
> Nikolay Dimidyuk.«We have signed the contract
> recently; Irkut Corporation is the main contractor.
> The deliveries will be started in the second half of
> 2015», - the source said. Hereminded that
> Yak-130 jets will be purchased by Bangladesh in
> the network of a $1 billion credit granted by
> Russia and intended for purchase of military
> equipment.«We have sold 16 jets of the type to
> Bangladesh and many APAC countries
> areinterested in Yak-130, because it has proven
> itself under severe conditions», - Dimidyuk
> added.Rosoboronexport reported earlier that the
> company is negotiating deliveries of Yak-130 jets
> to 10 countries. Experts believe that successful
> promotion of Yak-130 at the global market is
> connected with the fact that Russian air forces
> have put the jet into service. Under the
> contractsigned in December 2011 by Russian
> Ministry of Defense and Irkut Corporation 55
> Yak-130s must be delivered to the air forces
> during a period until 2015.


not 16. its 24


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## tntcfive

BDforever said:


> not 16. its 24


but the contract says otherwise.


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## BDforever

tntcfive said:


> but the contract says otherwise.


your source is not correct, many other sources claimed like mine, even other russian sources


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## tntcfive

BDforever said:


> your source is not correct, many other sources claimed like mine, even other russian sources


if that is true then I will be happy.

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## SQ8

In case the BAF really decides to go all out for Indian Hardware.

Tejas Mk.1 Bangladesh Air Force. 

Note: Serials are thoroughly inaccurate and someone familiar could help with BAF serial conventions

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## BDforever

Oscar said:


> In case the BAF really decides to go all out for Indian Hardware.
> 
> Tejas Mk.1 Bangladesh Air Force.
> 
> Note: Serials are thoroughly inaccurate and someone familiar could help with BAF serial conventions
> View attachment 148043


LOL thats funny bro

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## damiendehorn

Oscar said:


> In case the BAF really decides to go all out for Indian Hardware.
> 
> Tejas Mk.1 Bangladesh Air Force.
> 
> Note: Serials are thoroughly inaccurate and someone familiar could help with BAF serial conventions
> View attachment 148043



Dont insult us...rather have 1950s tech f7s.


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## SQ8

damiendehorn said:


> Dont insult us...rather have 1950s tech f7s.



What would you rather have to replace the A-5Cs?


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## damiendehorn

Oscar said:


> What would you rather have to replace the A-5Cs?



Yaks 130s are allready being bought for dual role advanced trainers and ground attack.


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## SQ8

damiendehorn said:


> Yaks 130s are allready being bought for dual role advanced trainers and ground attack.


 
And I suppose that the Mig-29s will be upgraded and the existing F-7MGs will soldier on?

It might have been more useful to get a dedicated multi-role fighter had funds permitted it. 

BAF JAS-39F Gripen 
ঘুড়ি বিশেষ

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## BDforever

Oscar said:


> And I suppose that the Mig-29s will be upgraded and the existing F-7MGs will soldier on?
> 
> It might have been more useful to get a dedicated multi-role fighter had funds permitted it.
> 
> BAF JAS-39F Gripen
> ঘুড়ি বিশেষ
> 
> View attachment 148519


tu kiya kar raha hein ? 

anyway, good job. now do on F-22, F-35, F-15/16/18, Su35 etc

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## SQ8

BDforever said:


> tu kiya kar raha hein ?
> 
> anyway, good job. now do on F-22, F-35, F-15/16/18, Su35 etc



Ham enjoy kar raha hein.. Sarana.. Rubbing it in. Next up will be HAL Maruts in BAF colors.

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## skynet

Oscar said:


> Next up will be HAL Maruts in BAF colors.


----------



## Bong

The five-day Air-to-Air Live Firing Exercise of Bangladesh Air Force concluded at Kutubdia firing range in Chittagong on Thursday.

A good number of fighter pilots joined the exercise that began on November 11, says an ISPR release.

Besides air-to-air missile firing, different air combat maneuvers and tactics were practised and evaluated by BAF fighter aircraft during this exercise.

F-7MB, FT-7B, F-7BG and L-39ZA fighter aircraft of Bangladesh Air Force took part in the air-to-air firing.


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## Rokto14

Bong said:


> The five-day Air-to-Air Live Firing Exercise of Bangladesh Air Force concluded at Kutubdia firing range in Chittagong on Thursday.
> 
> A good number of fighter pilots joined the exercise that began on November 11, says an ISPR release.
> 
> Besides air-to-air missile firing, different air combat maneuvers and tactics were practised and evaluated by BAF fighter aircraft during this exercise.
> 
> F-7MB, FT-7B, F-7BG and L-39ZA fighter aircraft of Bangladesh Air Force took part in the air-to-air firing.



Aren't the L-39s gonna be retired soon and be replaced by K-8s?


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## Bong

Rokto14 said:


> Aren't the L-39s gonna be retired soon and be replaced by K-8s?



No. L39s are in good condition.

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## monitor

Bong said:


> No. L39s are in good condition.



L-39 will be replace by YAK-130 so far i know


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## Bong

monitor said:


> L-39 will be replace by YAK-130 so far i know



L39s and K8s are intermediate jet trainer. YAK 130s are advanced jet trainer.


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## Bong

Its confirmed, Bangladesh air force will induct SU 30s in its fleet addition/replacement to its Migs.

And later J10 for F7 replacement.


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## Icewolf

Bong said:


> Its confirmed, Bangladesh air force will induct SU 30s in its fleet addition/replacement to its Migs.
> 
> And later J10 for F7 replacement.



Confirmed by who? Your mom?? Source plz


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## Bong

Icewolf said:


> Confirmed by who? Your mom?? Source plz



Many of us have links to the air force, so confirmed by them. No on line source. But can be found on some BD military forums.

Current budget is the problem. SU 30s are certain but not the J10s.

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## he-man

Oscar said:


> Ham enjoy kar raha hein.. Sarana.. Rubbing it in. Next up will be HAL Maruts in BAF colors.



Haan bhai pakistan will buy 2nd hand maal but bangladesh should get nothing lower than gripen
Whats next?

F-22 for india


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## BDforever

Icewolf said:


> Confirmed by who? Your mom??


agar tu mera somnay hota na, tera kan ke niche ek jorse thappar deta

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## Icewolf

Bong said:


> Many of us have links to the air force, so confirmed by them. No on line source. But can be found on some BD military forums.
> 
> Current budget is the problem. SU 30s are certain but not the J10s.



Alright buddy... We have had many people with "links" to the Air Force... So unless you have concrete proof, don't spread rumors.


----------



## he-man

BDforever said:


> agar tu mera somnay hota na, tera kan ke niche ek jorse thappar deta


----------



## Icewolf

BDforever said:


> agar tu mera somnay hota na, tera kan ke niche ek jorse thappar deta



If only your hands could even reach my face!!!

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## damiendehorn

Bong said:


> Many of us have links to the air force, so confirmed by them. No on line source. But can be found on some BD military forums.
> 
> Current budget is the problem. SU 30s are certain but not the J10s.



...12 SU 30s for 2020 delivery, 8 existing migs upgraded to SMT and 4 additional refurbed migs.

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## he-man

Icewolf said:


> If only your hands could even reach my face!!!


----------



## he-man

damiendehorn said:


> ...12 SU 30s for 2020 delivery, 8 existing migs upgraded to SMT and 4 additional refurbed migs.



Dayyum


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## BDforever

damiendehorn said:


> ...12 SU 30s for 2020 delivery, 8 existing migs upgraded to SMT and 4 additional refurbed migs.


only 24 aircraft by 2020 ?


----------



## 45'22'

damiendehorn said:


> ...12 SU 30s for 2020 delivery, 8 existing migs upgraded to SMT and 4 additional refurbed migs.


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## 45'22'

BDforever said:


> only 24 aircraft by 2020 ?


1 squadron 
that luks so scary

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## Bong

BDforever said:


> only 24 aircraft by 2020 ?



Wait for Forces Goal 2030


----------



## BDforever

Bong said:


> Wait for Forces Goal 2030


24 more ?

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## damiendehorn

BDforever said:


> only 24 aircraft by 2020 ?



Primary focus is on expanding the navy...more info in due course. A lot has changed since the UN verdict on the maritime borders.

Remember the size of the country, we only need a few long range fighters like the SU 30s that happen to be very expensive, a small squad of them are adaquate for us to cover out to the extended maritime boundries, and the migs to cover the rest.

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## Bong

damiendehorn said:


> Primary focus is on expanding the navy...more info in due course. A lot has changed since the UN verdict on the maritime borders.
> 
> Remember the size of the country, we only need a few long range fighters like the SU 30s that happen to be very expensive, a small squad of them are adaquate for us to cover out to the extended maritime boundries, and the migs to cover the rest.



F7s and YAK130s can also do significant job. Remember there will be 50 of them.


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## damiendehorn

45'22' said:


> 1 squadron
> that luks so scary



Who said thats the end? The gov hasn't decided on the total numbers yet, they are taking things at stages.

All we know at this time is, the J10 is out of the picture. The only options on the table are SU 30s, mig 29SMT, mig 35 and the J17s. The BAF has no interest in the J17s from what I have been hearing, they want twin engines. J10Bs are not avaiable within the time scale either.

So what do we know so far?

K8 for intermediate training: 8 ordered
YAK 130 for advanced training: 24 ordered
Mig 29SMT for intercepters: 8 to be upgraded plus 4 more to complete the squad, goal to have 36 in total.
SU 30 for long range intercepters: 12 under negotiation with aim for 24 in total

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## extra terrestrial

damiendehorn said:


> Who said thats the end? The gov hasn't decided on the total numbers yet, they are taking things at stages.
> 
> All we know at this time is, the J10 is out of the picture. The only options on the table are SU 30s, mig 29SMT, mig 35 and the J17s. The BAF has no interest in the J17s from what I have been hearing, they want twin engines. J10Bs are not avaiable within the time scale either.
> 
> So what do we know so far?
> 
> K8 for intermediate training: 8 ordered
> YAK 130 for advanced training: 24 ordered
> Mig 29SMT for intercepters: 8 to be upgraded plus 4 more to complete the squad, goal to have 36 in total.
> SU 30 for long range intercepters: 12 under negotiation with aim for 24 in total



If we somehow manage to get the J10Bs, having two squadrons of Su 30 and J10B each, BAF could become one hell of a force!

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## ni8mare

BDforever said:


> agar tu mera somnay hota na, tera kan ke niche ek jorse thappar deta


thak ar hindi bolte hobe na .......bangali der hindi ja funnnny.

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## Rokto14

So MiG 35 is out of the picture also? And BAF is concentrating on getting more MiG 29SMT and Su-30?


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## Rokto14

We can actually have a squadron of YAK-130 since we are getting 24 of them. So 16 YAK-130 can form 1 squadron and the other 8 can be solely for training pilots


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## tntcfive

I think baf is waiting for production to start of j-10. it will be main fighter jet. we operate 3 squadron f-7 if it replace all the f-7 that's means we will have a strong fleet of j-10b more than 3 squadron.


----------



## damiendehorn

tntcfive said:


> I think baf is waiting for production to start of j-10. it will be main fighter jet. we operate 3 squadron f-7 if it replace all the f-7 that's means we will have a strong fleet of j-10b more than 3 squadron.



From what i have been hearing BAF, would prefer to have twin engine birds. The price thats been quoted for J10A is roughly the same as new Mig 29SMT, when the J10B are available, will be a lot higher.

BAF weren't too happy with the early migs they received, but now they are more experienced supporting them. They are looking at all options, but looks like we may initially get a combo of 4 used Mig 29s updated to SMT, plus 12 new SU 30s.

BAF has recently shown interest in the FC 31, as a long term replacement/supplement for the Migs and F7s, provided SAG can keep to expected schedule and provided the pricing is right.


----------



## damiendehorn

Rokto14 said:


> We can actually have a squadron of YAK-130 since we are getting 24 of them. So 16 YAK-130 can form 1 squadron and the other 8 can be solely for training pilots



All YAKs on order have a dual role, and can function as both LIFT and ground attack.

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## Flynn Swagmire

ni8mare said:


> thak ar hindi bolte hobe na .......bangali der hindi ja funnnny.


ar indiander bangla seirokom.

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## asad71

Teeth of an air force are its fighter aircraft. BAL is deliberately but with much cunning avoiding owning a strong fighter holding so that their masters are not annoyed.


----------



## Bong

asad71 said:


> Teeth of an air force are its fighter aircraft. BAL is deliberately but with much cunning avoiding owning a strong fighter holding so that their masters are not annoyed.



Quick question for you, who bought Migs and who wanted to sell acquired ones?


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## BDforever

Awesome picture of BD JL-8W aircraft

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## 帅的一匹

I think J10b will be a good choice for BD, had BD poiltes flied J10A yet?






Is the negotiation of procuring J10 still alive?

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## mil-avia

*Video showing F-7 BGI, J-10 A non-stealth and J-20 stealth fighters in Chengdu airbase :*

*



*





Related link(s).


----------



## BDforever



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## monitor

wanglaokan said:


> I think J10b will be a good choice for BD, had BD poiltes flied J10A yet?
> 
> View attachment 163871
> 
> 
> Is the negotiation of procuring J10 still alive?



previous govt had link i deal to get 36 J-10 current govt is interested to get SU-30 from Russia lets see whats come combo Su-30 and J-10B will be great to Bangladesh securing Hi lo mix fighter fro our Air force .

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## 帅的一匹

J10B is the best Asian indigenous 4.5th gen fighter, hope BD will take a close look at it.


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## mil-avia

Bangladesh Air Force museum inaugurated


----------



## Zabaniyah

Oscar said:


> And I suppose that the Mig-29s will be upgraded and the existing F-7MGs will soldier on?
> 
> It might have been more useful to get a dedicated multi-role fighter had funds permitted it.



The F-7 MG's were retired after the BGI's were in operation. Those BGI's were perhaps the last to ever get off the F-7 production line.



> BAF JAS-39F Gripen
> ঘুড়ি বিশেষ
> 
> View attachment 148519







damiendehorn said:


> Who said thats the end? The gov hasn't decided on the total numbers yet, they are taking things at stages.
> 
> All we know at this time is, the J10 is out of the picture. The only options on the table are SU 30s, mig 29SMT, mig 35 and the J17s. The BAF has no interest in the J17s from what I have been hearing, they want twin engines. J10Bs are not avaiable within the time scale either.
> 
> So what do we know so far?
> 
> K8 for intermediate training: 8 ordered
> YAK 130 for advanced training: 24 ordered
> Mig 29SMT for intercepters: 8 to be upgraded plus 4 more to complete the squad, goal to have 36 in total.
> SU 30 for long range intercepters: 12 under negotiation with aim for 24 in total



That appears to be the direction that BAF is taking.

The Sukhoi variant is likely to be the MKK (China version) for maritime strike missions to deal with sea-borne threats.


----------



## Assault Rifle

So a senior researcher in IHS Jane's who has previously worked with SIPRI told me that the deliveries of 19 T-37s from Pakistan to Bangladesh never took place. 
It was confirmed in 2009 that the 19 T-37s will remain stored in Pakistan. 

Can any Bangladeshi member like @BDforever tell me why BAF procured the unarmed T-37B instead of the T-37C which could be armed with two 250lb bombs.

Alao what is the status of the 12 T-37B in BAF inventory?


----------



## BD SU-35

Yesterday PM said that BAF will soon receive 30 aircraft including 16 combat jet, 7 Mi-17 helicopter.What will be the other 7 aircraft?


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## damiendehorn

Assault Rifle said:


> So a senior researcher in IHS Jane's who has previously worked with SIPRI told me that the deliveries of 19 T-37s from Pakistan to Bangladesh never took place.
> It was confirmed in 2009 that the 19 T-37s will remain stored in Pakistan.
> 
> Can any Bangladeshi member like @BDforever tell me why BAF procured the unarmed T-37B instead of the T-37C which could be armed with two 250lb bombs.
> 
> Alao what is the status of the 12 T-37B in BAF inventory?



Why would Bangladesh need T-37c? These are primary trainers used for basic training, the C model was developed to act as a light counter insurgency aircraft, Bangladesh has no insurgency so why would we need to arm them?

All T-37 have been taken out of active service, maybe we should donate them to india to take care of their numerous insurgencies.

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## bongbang



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## Bilal9

damiendehorn said:


> Why would Bangladesh need T-37c? These are primary trainers used for basic training, the C model was developed to act as a light counter insurgency aircraft, Bangladesh has no insurgency so why would we need to arm them?
> 
> All T-37 have been taken out of active service, maybe we should donate them to india to take care of their numerous insurgencies.



Ha ha ha 

Someone's insurgent is another person's freedom fighter....whose side should we be on (overtly or covertly)? Time to do some Chanakya strategy of our own  (JK).

By the way - the ultimate Counter Insurgency (as well as OA - Observation) version of the T-37B 'Tweet' was the *Cessna A-37 Dragonfly*. One super cute mini-Mother of a machine. . A personal favorite! Unfortunately its way past obsolete. Observe the varieties of rocket pods and bombs that are compatible.





Image courtesy Airliners.net



bongbang said:


>



Interesting video. This kind of practice is a bit unorthodox in say the USAF (keeping the para-drop door open while the trailing aircraft in the direct slipstream behind). I can visualize someone doing a para jump and hitting the following aircraft. But regulations don't forbid everything everywhere. Guessing they were practicing ultra low-level force-insertion behind enemy lines and I noticed they flew down the coast almost to Cox's Bazaar and back.

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## Jayhawk

Happy to see that BD is improving the navy dept, but BD really needs to pay attention to airforce. BD needs better fighter jets.


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## Assault Rifle

Well how many L-39ZAs remain in active service in BAF? 

Flightglobal reports that 7 out of 8 L-39ZAs acquired remain in service as one L-39ZA was lost in a crash in April 2012 which also resulted in the death of a pilot.


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## BDforever

Assault Rifle said:


> Well how many L-39ZAs remain in active service in BAF?
> 
> Flightglobal reports that 7 out of 8 L-39ZAs acquired remain in service as one L-39ZA was lost in a crash in April 2012 which also resulted in the death of a pilot.


all 8 will remain in active service, with the help of romania, the crashed one has been repaired and soon it will join air force again


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## Assault Rifle

@BDforever Romania will repair the L-39 with serial number 365309 which was damaged in May 2013 and not the L-39 with serial number 365313 which craaged in April 2012.

@BDforever Romania will repair the L-39 with serial number 365309 which was damaged in May 2013 and not the L-39 with serial number 365313 which craaged in April 2012.

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## damiendehorn

Assault Rifle said:


> @BDforever Romania will repair the L-39 with serial number 365309 which was damaged in May 2013 and not the L-39 with serial number 365313 which craaged in April 2012.
> 
> @BDforever Romania will repair the L-39 with serial number 365309 which was damaged in May 2013 and not the L-39 with serial number 365313 which craaged in April 2012.



L39s are due to be replaced/augmented by the K8 and YAK 130 for LIFT.


----------



## bongbang

saad_hawk said:


> Happy to see that BD is improving the navy dept, but BD really needs to pay attention to airforce. BD needs better fighter jets.



BD military budget's half is now going to Air department. Lol


----------



## Assault Rifle

*Jane’s World Air Forces*
*December 2014 Update*

*Bangladesh Air Force Active Fighter/Strike and trainer jet Fleet 2014:*

*16 F-7BGI*
*16 F-7BG (incl 4 FT-7BG)*
*10 F-7MB (incl 1 FT-7MB)*

*8 Mig-29(incl 2 dual seat)*

*8 A-5C*
*6 FT-6 (Used to train A-5C)*
*7 L-39ZA*
*4 K-8W (5 more to be delivered)*
*11 T-37B (some reports say T-37Bs have been retired from active service).*

*16 Yak-130 on Order.*

*Courtesy: Ben Moores Senior Analyst IHS Janes.*

*@damiendehorn*

*A-5C & L-39s will remain in Active service till Yak-130s are inducted. *


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## damiendehorn

Assault Rifle said:


> *Jane’s World Air Forces*
> *December 2014 Update*
> 
> *Bangladesh Air Force Active Fighter/Strike and trainer jet Fleet 2014:*
> 
> *16 F-7BGI*
> *16 F-7BG (incl 4 FT-7BG)*
> *10 F-7MB (incl 1 FT-7MB)*
> 
> *8 Mig-29(incl 2 dual seat)*
> 
> *8 A-5C*
> *6 FT-7*
> *7 L-39ZA*
> *4 K-8W (5 more to be delivered)*
> *11 T-37B (some reports say T-37Bs have been retired from active service).*
> 
> *16 Yak-130 on Order.*
> 
> *Courtesy: Ben Moores Senior Analyst IHS Janes.*



A5 are under virtual storage, as of the end of 2014 and T37b have been retired. L39 will be replaced by the K8 eventually. The YAK 130 are for LIFT in conjuction with the FT7.


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## tntcfive

another news we r getting 16 yak-130 in the 2nd quarter in this year. they will be fitted with kyopo radar and will be able in air to ground strick. less in number but good in quality.í ½í¸

Russia to start deliveries of Yak-130 operational trainers to Bangladesh in 2015 - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

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## BDforever

tntcfive said:


> another news we r getting 16 yak-130 in the 2nd quarter in this year. they will be fitted with *kyopo radar* and will be able in air to ground strick. less in number but good in quality.í ½í¸


bold part: is not it old tech ?


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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> bold part: is not it old tech ?



Why do you need an Airforce ?  

Navy par concentrate kar !


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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> Why do you need an Airforce ?
> 
> Navy par concentrate kar !


to bomb you

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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> to bomb you



But Bengalis can't fly !  

You guys can only swim !

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## halfilhal

Bagladeshi Air Force Equipped With Strike Trainer Aircrafts


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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> But Bengalis can't fly !
> 
> You guys can only swim !


Saiful Azam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 now you cry indian kashmiri

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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> Saiful Azam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> now you cry indian kashmiri



When he flew; he was a Pakistani !


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## tntcfive

BDforever said:


> bold part: is not it old tech ?


don't know which variant.

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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> When he flew; he was a Pakistani !


you said bengali can't fly, it is not about country, bengali refers to ethnic group,

busted ! !

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## tntcfive

Armstrong said:


> When he flew; he was a Pakistani !


and bd also was a part of ití ½í¸.


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## Armstrong

BDforever said:


> you said bengali can't fly, it is not about country, bengali refers to ethnic group,
> 
> busted ! !

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## Assault Rifle

*Jane’s World Air Forces*
*December 2014 Update*

*Bangladesh Air Force Active Rotary Wing and Transport fleet:*
*
20 Mi-17/171 5 more on order
(1 Mi-17 lost in a crash, 7 more Mi-8 delivered by USSR in 70s in storage in unknown condition including 1 on display in BAF Museum, Dhaka).*

*4 Bell 206L4

13 Bell 212*

*4 C-130B

3 An-32*

*5 Mi-171sh on order

2 Augusta Westland AW139 on order

3 Let-410 on order

Bangladesh Army:

3 Bell 206L4 (Number could be 2.
4th Bell 206L4 lost in a crash in 2009)

2 Eurocopter AS365N3

4 Cessna 152
2 Cessna 337F
1 Cessna 208
1 Piper PA31T

Bangladesh Navy:*

*2 AgustaWestland AW109

2 Dornier Do 228NG

*


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## BDforever

Assault Rifle said:


> *Jane’s World Air Forces
> December 2014 Update*
> 
> *Bangladesh Air Force Active Rotary Wing and Transport fleet:
> 
> 20 Mi-17/171 5 more on order
> (1 Mi-17 lost in a crash, 7 more Mi-8 delivered by USSR in 70s in storage in unknown condition including 1 on display in BAF Museum, Dhaka).*
> 
> *4 Bell 206L4
> 
> 13 Bell 212*
> 
> *4 C-130B
> 
> 3 An-32*
> 
> *5 Mi-171sh on order
> 
> 2 Augusta Westland AW139 on order
> 
> 3 Let-410 on order
> 
> Bangladesh Army:
> 
> 3 Bell 206L4 (Number could be 2.
> 4th Bell 206L4 lost in a crash in 2009)
> 
> 2 Eurocopter AS365N3
> 
> 4 Cessna 152
> 2 Cessna 337F
> 1 Cessna 208
> 1 Piper PA31T
> 
> Bangladesh Navy:*
> 
> *2 AgustaWestland AW109
> 
> 2 Dornier Do 228NG
> *


correction: total 28 Mil Mi series helicopters ( 9 Mil Mi-171sh, 17 Mil Mi-17 and 2 Mil Mi-17 v5) now 5 more Mil Mi171sh on order


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## Assault Rifle

@BDforever

According to SIPRI Arms Transfers database 28 Mi-17/8 have been exported to Bangladesh:

Trade Registers

Russia:
R: Bangladesh 4 Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-
H Helicopter (1992) 1993 (4)
Mi-17 version
8 Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H
Helicopter (1995) 1995 8 Mi-17
version
3 Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H
Helicopter (1998) 1999 3 $4 m
deal (not incl value of trade-in of 7 ex-
Bangladeshi Mi-8 helicopters)

3 Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H
Helicopter 2004 2007 3 BDT78
m ($1.3 m) deal; Mi-171 armed
version.

3 Mi-8/Mi-17/Hip-H
Helicopter 2010 2011 ; Mi-171 armed
version.

USSR
R: Bangladesh
(7) Mi-8T/Hip-C
Helicopter (1973) 1974 (7)

1 Mi-17 crashed in 2002 killing 4 crew members and 7 Mi-8 received in 70s are in storage. 
So there are 20 in service. 5 more are on order

Edit: Bangladesh Navy has ordered 3 Harbin Z-9 (ASW version, number on order could be 2).

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## BDforever



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## Hindustani78

A Bangladesh Air Force C-130B taxis behind a U.S. Air Force C-130H at Sylhet International Airport on Sunday before a personnel-drop mission during Exercise COPE SOUTH. The exercise is a Pacific Air Forces-sponsored, bilateral tactical airlift exercise conducted in Bangladesh, with a focus on cooperative flight operations, day and night low-level navigation, tactical airdrop, and air-land missions as well as subject-matter expert exchanges in the fields of operations, maintenance and rigging disciplines.

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## bongbang



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## BDforever

bongbang said:


>


but... but according to @khair_ctg ... US military personnels were not impressed, it was just bdnews24 site propaganda.
well this video might hurt his feelings

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## bongbang

BDforever said:


> but... but according to @khair_ctg ... US military personnels were not impressed, it was just bdnews24 site propaganda.
> well this video might hurt his feelings



Actually this training isnt any new for BD. But lot for the US. So we arent learning much but the US come here to learn

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## chaanmia

BDforever said:


> but... but according to @khair_ctg ... US military personnels were not impressed, it was just bdnews24 site propaganda.
> well this video might hurt his feelings


for them only basher kella is real  anyway,how is my avatar everybody ?

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## BDforever

chaanmia said:


> for them only basher kella is real  anyway,how is my avatar everybody ?


language

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## chaanmia

The picture is actually symbolic the language too just ignore the vulgar part


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## Arthur

bongbang said:


>


Great !!thanks for sharing!! 



BDforever said:


> but... but according to @khair_ctg ... US military personnels were not impressed, it was just bdnews24 site propaganda.
> well this video might hurt his feelings


LET HIM BURN!!!!!

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## Arthur

chaanmia said:


> for them only basher kella is real  anyway,how is my avatar everybody ?


Basherkella is the most transparent news channel in the whole continent!!  you shouldn't bad mouth them!! Its blasphemy!!!

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## BDforever

This isn't something that u see everyday _............._ 

2xF-7BG & 1xC-130B of Bangladesh Air Force with 2xC-130H of United State Air Force in Exercise

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## Hindustani78

Bangladeshi commandos jump from a U.S. Air Force C-130H aircraft Jan. 24 over a drop zone during Exercise COPE SOUTH near Sylhet, Bangladesh. COPE SOUTH helps cultivate common bonds, foster goodwill, and improve readiness and compatibility between members of the Bangladesh and U.S. Air Forces. 1st Lt. Jake Bailey/Air Force

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## Luftwaffe

Pakistan should be replacing C-130H in 7-10 years slowly could BAF be potential candidate for such a procurment considering C-130 long term excellent support by Lockheed and knowing more than 200 of them their spares available with USAF. In my personal opinion these Transports would be around 15m each without other spares etc at such a low cost these would be best addition to current fleet along with couple of these upgraded for maritime surveillance. Pakistan have 17 of E/H models atleast few would be going out in 7-10 years. PAF have long term investment in C-130s and it complete maintainance thus my opinion PAF would be looking for few C-130J non stretch version which would still cost close to $100m each with spares and vice versa.


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## Hindustani78

BDforever said:


> This isn't something that u see everyday _............._
> 
> 2xF-7BG & 1xC-130B of Bangladesh Air Force with 2xC-130H of United State Air Force in Exercise
> View attachment 188095



wo Bangladesh F-7BG Defenders, a BAF C-130B Hercules, and two U.S. Air Force C-130H Hercules aircraft prepare to take off Jan. 28 from BAF Base Bangabandhu, Bangladesh, during Exercise COPE SOUTH. The U.S. planes are assigned to the 374th Airlift Wing, Yokota Air base, Japan; the BAF F-7BGs are assigned to 5th Squadron and the BAF C-130B is assigned to 101st Special Flying Unit at BAF Base Bangabandhu. COPE SOUTH is a Pacific Air Forces-sponsored, bilateral tactical airlift exercise conducted in Bangladesh, with a focus on cooperative flight operations, day and night low-level navigation, tactical airdrop, and air-land missions as well as subject-matter expert exchanges in the fields of operations, maintenance and rigging disciplines. Bangladesh Air Force

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## masud

after reading the bangladesh air force thread, i am so angry about our air force capability. our economy is not so bed that it can,t buy 40-50 more mig 29smt. even very poor african nation has more fights then ours air force.
can some body explain me what is stop gap? speacialy we bought f-7 interceptor for stop gap or something like that?
i am not an expert but i khow one thing that " enemy can attack you any time"............ @bongbang @BDforever @Khan saheb and our other bangladeshi brothers

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## BDforever

masud said:


> after reading the bangladesh air force thread, i am so angry about our air force capability. our economy is not so bed that it can,t buy 40-50 more mig 29smt. even very poor african nation has more fights then ours air force.
> can some body explain me what is stop gap? speacialy we bought f-7 interceptor for stop gap or something like that?
> i am not an expert but i khow one thing that " enemy can attack you any time"............ @bongbang @BDforever @Khan saheb and our other bangladeshi brothers


i will explain later... kinda busy now

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## masud

BDforever said:


> i will explain later... kinda busy now


ok brother.........

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## BDforever

masud said:


> after reading the bangladesh air force thread, i am so angry about our air force capability. our economy is not so bed that it can,t buy 40-50 more mig 29smt. even very poor african nation has more fights then ours air force.
> can some body explain me what is stop gap? speacialy we bought f-7 interceptor for stop gap or something like that?
> i am not an expert but i khow one thing that " enemy can attack you any time"............ @bongbang @BDforever @Khan saheb and our other bangladeshi brothers


Govt. never gave attention at armed forces specially to air force untill recent times.
F-7BGI bought as stop gap for 2 reasons:
1. first need to introduce some new tech. 
2. before introducing to new aircraft, first need advanced training which is not available in current inventory. now yak130 is coming, so you will see new aircraft

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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> Govt. never gave attention at armed forces specially to air force untill recent times.
> F-7BGI bought as stop gap for 2 reasons:
> 1. first need to introduce some new tech.
> 2. before introducing to new aircraft, first need advanced training which is not available in current inventory. now yak130 is coming, so you will see new aircraft



Also best not to buy more than say 48 4th generation aircraft this decade and save money for 5th generation aircraft next decade.


----------



## Arthur

masud said:


> after reading the bangladesh air force thread, i am so angry about our air force capability. our economy is not so bed that it can,t buy 40-50 more mig 29smt. even very poor african nation has more fights then ours air force.
> can some body explain me what is stop gap? speacialy we bought f-7 interceptor for stop gap or something like that?
> i am not an expert but i khow one thing that " enemy can attack you any time"............ @bongbang @BDforever @Khan saheb and our other bangladeshi brothers


In the past it was lack of ambition and strong political will,i would say! Though mig-29 is great fighter i don't want to see anymore than 1squadron of them!rather BAF should go after mig-35/j-10 and Su-30 for long range strike.

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## bongbang

masud said:


> after reading the bangladesh air force thread, i am so angry about our air force capability. our economy is not so bed that it can,t buy 40-50 more mig 29smt. even very poor african nation has more fights then ours air force.
> *can some body explain me what is stop gap?* speacialy we bought f-7 interceptor for stop gap or something like that?
> i am not an expert but i khow one thing that " enemy can attack you any time"............ @bongbang @BDforever @Khan saheb and our other bangladeshi brothers



Stop gap: Something superior is coming. Wait for that. In the mean time play with some less efficient toys.These less efficient toys will fulfill the requirements of protection and training, until the efficient toys arrive.

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## masud

1) if we buying our next generation (force gole 2030) fighter then which fighter is best to buy ?
2) why we should buy this and what is the reason?

my vote is for j-31, becausr f-35 and pak fa is so costly.

i want your openion brothers...... @BDforever , @bongbang, @Khan saheb, @UKBengali and others.


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## monitor

_Posted 2/5/2015_
Two Bangladesh air force F-7BG Defenders escort a U.S. Air Force C-130H Hercules during Cope South 15 Jan. 28, 2015, near Kishoreganj, Bangladesh. Cope South is a Pacific Air Forces-sponsored, bilateral tactical airlift exercise conducted in Bangladesh, with a focus on cooperative flight operations, day and night low-level navigation, tactical airdrop, and air-land missions; as well as subject matter expert exchanges in the fields of operations, maintenance and rigging disciplines. The F-7Bs are assigned to the 5th Squadron at BAF Base Bangabandhu, Bangladesh. The C-130H is assigned to the 374th Airlift Wing at Yokota Air Base, Japan. (U.S. Air Force photo/1st Lt. Jake Bailey)

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## UKBengali

masud said:


> 1) if we buying our next generation (force gole 2030) fighter then which fighter is best to buy ?
> 2) why we should buy this and what is the reason?
> 
> my vote is for j-31, becausr f-35 and pak fa is so costly.
> 
> i want your openion brothers...... @BDforever , @bongbang, @Khan saheb, @UKBengali and others.



J-31 as it comes from a reliable supplier and the cost would be affordable for BD.

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## bongbang

masud said:


> 1) if we buying our next generation (force gole 2030) fighter then which fighter is best to buy ?
> 2) why we should buy this and what is the reason?
> 
> my vote is for j-31, becausr f-35 and pak fa is so costly.



Possibly SU 30s are coming next for 2030. Consider anything else then that. 
Im sure when j31 and pak fa becomes proven fighters for other countries, BD may show interests in those.
We cant make mistakes. We have 2040, 2050 and unlimited forces goals too

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## masud

bongbang said:


> Possibly SU 30s are coming next for 2030. Consider anything else then that.
> Im sure when j31 and pak fa becomes proven fighters for other countries, BD may show interests in those.
> We cant make mistakes. We have 2040, 2050 and unlimited forces goals too


i like su 30 mkm

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## Luftwaffe

It looks like long term program could be flankers and J-10 or Mig-35 and J-10...at supposedly $65m J-31 without other costs included purchasing handful say up to 24 would cost atleast $2.5m but do know as China progresses they will have same trend as US military Complex and companies spares and other service would be high enough don't misjudge China. Along either fulcrums or flankers and J-10 smartvweapons must be priority like ALCM, credible bvr, anti shipping anti radiation and last reasonable eyes in the skiez that is improved AEW &Cs. Additional Wide coverage of medium/high SAM systems...so its just not fighters for air force.


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## bongbang

masud said:


> i like su 30 mkm



On another thought BD should start thinking only for the options of j10,j11,j20,j31s for its long term plan.Because there maybe a long term sanction on Russia, in that case only option is China. Also more cheap f7BGI made in China and BD. I like this plane much. In a war scenario, number game is also an important factor


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## masud

if our air force want to buy fighter now, then i will like to bought JF-17. in my personal openion it is the best platfrom for our air force..........

Unit cost:
Block 1: US$15–20 million,
Block 2: US$20–25 million* .*

it,s good to intrigate many different type of air to air missile*. 







*


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## bongbang

masud said:


> if our air force want to buy fighter now, then i will like to bought JF-17. in my personal openion it is the best platfrom for our air force..........
> 
> Unit cost:
> Block 1: US$15–20 million,
> Block 2: US$20–25 million* .*
> 
> it,s good to intrigate many different type of air to air missile*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



No brother. Bangladeshis no like it. Shhhh in a pakistani forum. j10 is much better. Block 1 no no. Block 2 te to j10 e chole asbe. Hehe. See hardpoints speed mach


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## masud

bongbang said:


> No brother. Bangladeshis no like it. Shhhh in a pakistani forum. j10 is much better. Block 1 no no. Block 2 te to j10 e chole asbe. Hehe. See hardpoints speed mach



i like su-30 more then j-10.....

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## Arthur

bongbang said:


> On another thought BD should start thinking only for the options of j10,j11,j20,j31s for its long term plan.Because there maybe a long term sanction on Russia, in that case only option is China. Also more cheap f7BGI made in China and BD. I like this plane much. In a war scenario, number game is also an important factor



if you want to play number game,then jf-17 will be better than some f-7's ;I think! 



masud said:


> i like su-30 more then j-10.....


hmmm,In a real war scenario mix of low end and high end matters the most! so, I would say go for both !!


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## fallen_soldier

My wishlist is for 36x Su-35 & 52x Mig-35/Mig-29M(With AESA +TVC) + upgarde existing mig-29 to SMT.

all Migs avionics HUD,NAVFLIR,MAWS,LWS EW & Radar should from western origin. also support western, russian & chinese weapons.


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## Zabaniyah

masud said:


> if our air force want to buy fighter now, then i will like to bought JF-17. in my personal openion it is the best platfrom for our air force..........
> 
> Unit cost:
> Block 1: US$15–20 million,
> Block 2: US$20–25 million* .*
> 
> it,s good to intrigate many different type of air to air missile*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Rafael is Israeli.

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## bongbang

Khan saheb said:


> if you want to play number game,then jf-17 will be better than some f-7's ;I think!



F7 BGI isnt bad at all. Lots of F7s will come in a cheap price. Id like to have 4 f7s instead of 1 jf17. And no comparison with a superior plane like jf17 with f7. F7s will work as good interceptors. Maritime patrol, Speed mach, near BVR capability. Lots of pilots get planes for themselves. No need to operate multi role costly planes all the time. What if BD able to produce planes like f7s by itself. Something to get pride ehh. And BD should go for Chinese jxx series planes for now only. One platform is also good with different features. And lots of drones in its fleet.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

masud said:


> if our air force want to buy fighter now, then i will like to bought JF-17. in my personal openion it is the best platfrom for our air force..........
> 
> Unit cost:
> Block 1: US$15–20 million,
> Block 2: US$20–25 million* .*
> 
> it,s good to intrigate many different type of air to air missile*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *




Block 1 costs over 25 million.

Block II would cost over 35 million.

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## masud

Loki said:


> Rafael is Israeli.


i know rafael is israeli. i also khow that we don,t have any kind of polatical/economic relation. In our national passport it is written " THIS PASSPORT IS VALID FOR ALL COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD EXCEPT ISRAEL".

BUT i don,t care about any ideology. i care only what is good for my country. and the israily army & air force is one of the best in world.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Block 1 costs over 25 million.
> 
> Block II would cost over 35 million.


ohhh now i understand why our air force don,t bought this .


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## bongbang

masud said:


> i like su-30 more then j-10.....



Yes 2 different platforms. SU30 is great proven platform from su27. J10 is cheap. Close features of f16.. It seems BD may have finalized j10 deal by now if Russians had given green signal to China to sell Russian copy engine in j10. BD isnt going to buy indigenous Chinese engine now.



masud said:


> ohhh now i understand why our air force don,t bought this .



Not only price. Lot more comparison. Its a good deal for Pakistan not BD. Unproven new platform.

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## Luftwaffe

bongbang said:


> No brother. Bangladeshis no like it. Shhhh in a pakistani forum. j10 is much better. Block 1 no no. Block 2 te to j10 e chole asbe. Hehe. See hardpoints speed mach



what about over whelming enemy penetrating into air space...anyway mig-35 or flankers are one possibility...combined with something post retirement of F-7BGI.


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## Luftwaffe

black-hawk_101 said:


> BAF should seek P-3Cs from Australia to get them and upgrade them with US help. Also make some 3-5 in to AEW&Cs.
> 
> Also they should look towards F-16s Block-20s to get them and upgrade them in US.



Nishan and send you along to upgrade you as well.


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## Zabaniyah

masud said:


> i know rafael is israeli. i also khow that we don,t have any kind of polatical/economic relation. In our national passport it is written " THIS PASSPORT IS VALID FOR ALL COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD EXCEPT ISRAEL".
> 
> BUT i don,t care about any ideology. i care only what is good for my country. and the israily army & air force is one of the best in world.



Well, under our law, we cannot conduct any transaction with Israel. Including a total ban on Israeli vessels entering our ports.

That being said, wouldn't it be easier to acquire similar technology from the US? Though, not easy if we consider the political angle.


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## masud

Loki said:


> Well, under our law, we cannot conduct any transaction with Israel. Including a total ban on Israeli vessels entering our ports.
> 
> That being said, wouldn't it be easier to acquire similar technology from the US? Though, not easy if we consider the political angle.




i notice that your main objection is israil, so i thik you are little bit pro israily. now brother i also don,t like them very much. but what are they , what the capability they have you tell me? aftar sarrounding by all enemy country, after out numbered many time they still exist today.
we muslim always try to be arrogance. our phelosophy some thing like "let,s go to war, we are muslim allah will help us and we will be victories"....... but brother "ALLAH WILL NEVER HELP YOU IF YOU DON,T TRY TO HELP YOUR SELF FIRST"

NOW i answer your question . where i say we should make dill only with israeli? i chose rafale for our air force missile system because A/R-darter, PL seris air to air missile.MAA SERIS all are based on rafale tec.

i have no problem with US. Even i will like to sign militry assistant as like pakistan and jordan air force. i also like to bring f-16 with AAMRAM


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## bongbang

Loki said:


> Well, under our law, we cannot conduct any transaction with Israel. Including a total ban on Israeli vessels entering our ports.
> 
> That being said, wouldn't it be easier to acquire similar technology from the US? Though, not easy if we consider the political angle.



Hell, last some years hefty amounts of business done with Israel. Without gov knowledge.


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## Zabaniyah

masud said:


> i notice that your main objection is israil, so i thik you are little bit pro israily. now brother i also don,t like them very much. but what are they , what the capability they have you tell me? aftar sarrounding by all enemy country, after out numbered many time they still exist today.
> we muslim always try to be arrogance. our phelosophy some thing like "let,s go to war, we are muslim allah will help us and we will be victories"....... but brother "ALLAH WILL NEVER HELP YOU IF YOU DON,T TRY TO HELP YOUR SELF FIRST"
> 
> NOW i answer your question . where i say we should make dill only with israeli? i chose rafale for our air force missile system because A/R-darter, PL seris air to air missile.MAA SERIS all are based on rafale tec.
> 
> i have no problem with US. Even i will like to sign militry assistant as like pakistan and jordan air force. i also like to bring f-16 with AAMRAM



Not sure if this is trolling or just playing dumb.


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## masud

Loki said:


> Not sure if this is trolling or just playing dumb.


it,s only my personal thinking nothing more........

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## masud

Bangladesh Air Force Mil Mi-171SH combat transport helicopter:

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## masud



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## masud

BD ARMY Eurocopter AS365 N3+ Dauphin:

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## masud

Bell 212:












BAF C-130B:

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## masud

Mig 29:

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## masud



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## masud



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## IrbiS



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## Jayhawk

Thanks for the pictures Masud. Bangladesh really needs to get some better fighters for BD airfoce.

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## Bilal9

saad_hawk said:


> Thanks for the pictures Masud. Bangladesh really needs to get some better fighters for BD airfoce.



Unfortunately s long as the present Govt's policy is appeasing (pa chata chati) foreign govts. - and not diplomatic engagement and active leveraging - this ain't gonna happen.


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## Armstrong

@BDforever - Tu BAF mein kiyun nahin giyaa ?  

Tujhe East-Pakistan seh koi piyaaar nahin haiii ?


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## Bilal9

Armstrong said:


> @BDforever - Tu BAF mein kiyun nahin giyaa ?
> 
> Tujhe East-Pakistan seh koi piyaaar nahin haiii ?



What is it between you and BDForever Bhaisaab? Seems like a love-hate relationship


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## Armstrong

Bilal9 said:


> What is it between you and BDForever Bhaisaab? Seems like a love-hate relationship



@BDforever is my brother !

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## masud

saad_hawk said:


> Thanks for the pictures Masud. Bangladesh really needs to get some better fighters for BD airfoce.


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## masud



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## masud



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## ghost250

Bangladesh Air Force's latest transport bird - the L410UVP-E20....

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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> Bangladesh Air Force's latest transport bird - the L410UVP-E20....
> View attachment 200060



I'm glad these L410UVP-E20's are FAR23 certified now. Some of the earlier Walter-engined (Czech powerplant) L410's were not so and that's a cause for concern. One defunct airline, Air Parabat- used to operate a couple of these prototypes from Tejgaon airport about ten years ago. Their safety record with these planes was not exactly stellar.

I don't get why the air force would buy an airplane unless a reliable PT-6 engined variant was being offered. There are so many PT-6 engined twins available, most notably the economical Chinese Y-12F. See below.

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> I'm glad these L410UVP-E20's are FAR23 certified now. Some of the earlier Walter-engined (Czech powerplant) L410's were not so and that's a cause for concern. One defunct airline, Air Parabat- used to operate a couple of these prototypes from Tejgaon airport about ten years ago. Their safety record with these planes was not exactly stellar.
> 
> I don't get why the air force would buy an airplane unless a reliable PT-6 engined variant was being offered. There are so many PT-6 engined twins available, most notably the economical Chinese Y-12F. See below.


I have the same question too!WHY ???!!!

perhaps cheap price or diversifying of supplier??? anyone???


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## black-hawk_101

Bilal9 said:


> I'm glad these L410UVP-E20's are FAR23 certified now. Some of the earlier Walter-engined (Czech powerplant) L410's were not so and that's a cause for concern. One defunct airline, Air Parabat- used to operate a couple of these prototypes from Tejgaon airport about ten years ago. Their safety record with these planes was not exactly stellar.
> 
> I don't get why the air force would buy an airplane unless a reliable PT-6 engined variant was being offered. There are so many PT-6 engined twins available, most notably the economical Chinese Y-12F. See below.



Why not CN-235s..........??????


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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## Bilal9

Bangladesh Air Force has established Mi-17 Helicopter Overhauling plant. Russia provided technical assistance to establish the plant. Bangladesh signed a $1.5 Billion arms deal with Russia which included a overhauling plant for Mi-17s. Bangladesh currently operates 22+ Mi-17 transport helicopter and 3 Mi-171sh Armed Helicopter with 5 more on order.

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladesh Air Force has established Mi-17 Helicopter Overhauling plant. Russia provided technical assistance to establish the plant. Bangladesh signed a $1.5 Billion arms deal with Russia which included a overhauling plant for Mi-17s. Bangladesh currently operates 22+ Mi-17 transport helicopter and 3 Mi-171sh Armed Helicopter with 5 more on order.

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## british_bengali

​LIMA: Boeing, MD Helicopters spar for light attack requirement - 3/17/2015 - Flight Global 

Malaysia could be edging closer to the acquisition of a light attack helicopter, with MD Helicopterspromoting the MD 530G and Boeing the AH-6i for the role.

At its LIMA debut, MD Helicopters made a major push. The Arizona-based company brought a single MD 530G, which performed during the show’s aerial display and also took Malaysian defence officials on test flights, while the company also had a large chalet at the show.

The exact number of aircraft Kuala Lumpur needs, and whether or not there is sufficient budget for the acquisition, is not clear. Malaysia is looking at a number of options, from eight aircraft up to 24.

*Moreover, a number of other countries in the region are apparently interested in light attack helicopters, including the Philippines and Bangladesh.*

Possible acquisition??

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## Bilal9

british_bengali said:


> LIMA: Boeing, MD Helicopters spar for light attack requirement - 3/17/2015 - Flight Global
> 
> Malaysia could be edging closer to the acquisition of a light attack helicopter, with MD Helicopterspromoting the MD 530G and Boeing the AH-6i for the role.
> 
> At its LIMA debut, MD Helicopters made a major push. The Arizona-based company brought a single MD 530G, which performed during the show’s aerial display and also took Malaysian defence officials on test flights, while the company also had a large chalet at the show.
> 
> The exact number of aircraft Kuala Lumpur needs, and whether or not there is sufficient budget for the acquisition, is not clear. Malaysia is looking at a number of options, from eight aircraft up to 24.
> 
> *Moreover, a number of other countries in the region are apparently interested in light attack helicopters, including the Philippines and Bangladesh.*
> 
> Possible acquisition??



I can only see derivatives of Mi-17 such as Mi-35, the follow on to the famous 'HIND', because they already have the Mi-17 overhaul plant (see above). These all use the same turbines and powertrain more or less. Plus unlike other attack helicopters Mi-35 can carry eight fully equipped troops and a formidable payload of bombs and missiles. Simple, easy to maintain and tough. Ideal for Bangladesh-related COIN and close air support.

Mil Mi-35M




Image copyright Military-Today

The famous Mi-24 (NATO designation Hind) saw action in many hotspots, local wars, armed conflicts and special operations all around the world. Despite its age the Mi-24 remains in service with at least 50 air arms.

The Mi-24 made its name for being easy and cheap to maintain. This helicopter also proved to be reliable. However refurbishment, upgrades and modernization is necessary in order to keep these ageing gunships operational. Especially its electronics needs to be improved to meet modern demands and competitiveness in modern warfare.

Upgraded Mi-35M (NATO Designation Hind-E) was first revealed in 1999. It is an export version of the Mi-24VM. This helicopter is intended only for export. The Mil Helicopter Plant introduced a more modern Mi-28 back in 1990s. However many countries, including Russia, can not replace their ageing fleet of Mi-24 attack helicopters due to funding problems. So refurbishment and production of helicopters such as the Mi-35M continues.

Production of the Mi-35M commenced in 2005. This attack helicopter and it's derivatives are in service with Azerbaijan (24), Brazil (12), Venezuela (8) and possibly some other countries.

The main role of this helicopter is destruction of armored vehicles, enemy troops, UAVs and other helicopters. It's secondary role is delivery of troops and special cargo, evacuation of wounded. It can operate at night and in adverse weather conditions.

The Mi-35M has a number of improvements. It differs from the basic model by main rotor system of the Mi-28 and X-shape tail rotor. Main rotor's fiberglass blades have new aerodynamic profile. These are lighter but stronger due to titanium details. Helicopter also has upgraded turboshaft engines. Flight performance such as altitude and maneuverability improved due to these changes. Stub wings were shortened in order to reduce weight. Wings have a number of hardpoints for weapons and other uses.

Electronic core of the helicopter underwent fundamental modifications. A whole spectrum of new electronic systems were adopted in the cockpit. The Mi-35M is fitted with upgraded avionics and improved sensor package, including night vision system. Helicopter is also fitted with electro-optical rangefinder/targeting system with thermal imaging guidance channel, satellite positioning and navigation system, electronic multifunction displays, onboard computer and new generation jam-proof communications equipment.

This attack helicopter can carry different weapons, including podded guns, 8 Ataka-V or Shturm-V ant-tank missiles and Igla air-to-air missiles, unguided rockets or bombs. Armament depends on customer requirements. A nose turret carries a GSh-231 23-mm two-barrel cannon. The cockpit and vital components of this helicopter are significantly armored.

The Mi-35M has a payload capacity of a whooping 2 400 kg. It can carry a full infantry squad of 8 fully-equipped troops. This feature makes this helicopter unique comparing with Western attack helicopters. A large-caliber machine gun, as well as general purpose machine guns can be installed in the cargo cabin.

Landing gear of the Mi-35M is no longer retractable. This reduced overall weight of the helicopter. Also in case of the crash the landing gear absorbs some of the energy.

It is worth mentioning that other countries also offer their refurbished and upgraded versions of the Mi-24 Hind with modern avionics, weapons, engines and night operation capability. South African company Advanced Technologies and Engineering (ATE) proposes its Superhind upgrade programme. It is estimated that 1 500 Hinds remain in service so market for upgrades remain substantial.


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## Zabaniyah

british_bengali said:


> LIMA: Boeing, MD Helicopters spar for light attack requirement - 3/17/2015 - Flight Global
> 
> Malaysia could be edging closer to the acquisition of a light attack helicopter, with MD Helicopterspromoting the MD 530G and Boeing the AH-6i for the role.
> 
> At its LIMA debut, MD Helicopters made a major push. The Arizona-based company brought a single MD 530G, which performed during the show’s aerial display and also took Malaysian defence officials on test flights, while the company also had a large chalet at the show.
> 
> The exact number of aircraft Kuala Lumpur needs, and whether or not there is sufficient budget for the acquisition, is not clear. Malaysia is looking at a number of options, from eight aircraft up to 24.
> 
> *Moreover, a number of other countries in the region are apparently interested in light attack helicopters, including the Philippines and Bangladesh.*
> 
> Possible acquisition??



An American chopper? No thanks.

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## Bilal9

Loki said:


> An American chopper? No thanks.



Exactamundo 

Comes with lots and lots of strings (which can be pulled at their whim).

However - funny thing is that the US Army itself has been buying Mi-17 variants by the boatload and supplying them to Afghanistan, Pakistan and other allies. The Thais have also bought the platform quoting that three Mi-17's equal the cost of one Blackhawk. Attack helicopters would be way more expensive.

Anything based on the original Mi-8 (Mi-17, 24, 35) is as reliable as an anvil.

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## Zabaniyah

Bilal9 said:


> Exactamundo
> 
> Comes with lots and lots of strings (which can be pulled at their whim).
> 
> However - funny thing is that the US Army itself has been buying Mi-17 variants by the boatload and supplying them to Afghanistan, Pakistan and other allies. The Thais have also bought the platform quoting that three Mi-17's equal the cost of one Blackhawk. Attack helicopters would be way more expensive.
> 
> Anything based on the original Mi-8 (Mi-17, 24, 35) is as reliable as an anvil.



I said that even though I personally prefer American equipment. A Blackhawk or an AH-64 is still technically superior than any Mi-8 platform.

The politics behind American-made weapons is like that of a circus. They even tried to make the M-16 standard issue for the ANA. I mean, what a waste!
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Afghan army to 'treble in size'
Afghanistan Army: Troops Complain Of Poor Equipment And Disrespect

The countries under heavy influence of the US are to some extent forced to buy American weapons (with strings attached).

For the US to be a reliable supplier, it requires plenty of lobbying and that takes additional money. Normally, third-world countries cannot afford that kind of exposure. And that is not to mention the cost of American equipment.

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> Exactamundo
> 
> Comes with lots and lots of strings (which can be pulled at their whim).
> 
> However - funny thing is that the US Army itself has been buying Mi-17 variants by the boatload and supplying them to Afghanistan, Pakistan and other allies. The Thais have also bought the platform quoting that three Mi-17's equal the cost of one Blackhawk. Attack helicopters would be way more expensive.
> 
> Anything based on the original Mi-8 (Mi-17, 24, 35) is as reliable as an anvil.





Loki said:


> I said that even though I personally prefer American equipment. A Blackhawk or an AH-64 is still technically superior than any Mi-8 platform.
> 
> The politics behind American-made weapons is like that of a circus. They even tried to make the M-16 standard issue for the ANA. I mean, what a waste!
> BBC NEWS | South Asia | Afghan army to 'treble in size'
> Afghanistan Army: Troops Complain Of Poor Equipment And Disrespect
> 
> The countries under heavy influence of the US are to some extent forced to buy American weapons (with strings attached).
> 
> For the US to be a reliable supplier, it requires plenty of lobbying and that takes additional money. Normally, third-world countries cannot afford that kind of exposure. And that is not to mention the cost of American equipment.


Nothing is better than an old AK-47 for this part of world,I will agree with you guys wholeheartedly!!

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## Zabaniyah

Khan saheb said:


> Nothing is better than an old AK-47 for this part of world,I will agree with you guys wholeheartedly!!



Well, how old is old?  

Robustness aside, there's the AK-12, AN-94, AEK-971, etc. 

Just saying, it doesn't hurt to go for something newer and something that is superior.

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## Arthur

Loki said:


> Well, how old is old?
> 
> Robustness aside, there's the AK-12, AN-94, AEK-971, etc.
> 
> Just saying, it doesn't hurt to go for something newer and something that is superior.


Indeed!!!


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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force Basic Trainer PT-6 Video


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## Bilal9

What happened to the Hongdu L-7 (Yak-152) basic trainer replacement we were supposed to get?

Apparently PT-6's (C-J6's) are in very high demand in the US and EU civilian markets as warbirds and we could sell these off and get the L-7's which are a magnitude better in terms of handling if not ease of repair.


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## BDforever

Bangladesh Air force has gotten delivered of 2 new Mi171sh helicopter recently, it makes 11 Mi171sh fleet. 3 more on order. total number of Mil Mi17 series helicopters of BAF is now 30 units

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## bongbang

BDforever said:


> Bangladesh Air force has gotten delivered of 2 new Mi171sh helicopter recently, it makes 11 Mi171sh fleet. 3 more on order. total number of Mil Mi17 series helicopters of BAF is now 30 units









We need Antonov AH-124-100 too

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## Arthur

BAF C130 Hercules Takes off to join humanitarian efforts in Nepal:




BAF C130 in Trivubhan International Airport:




Bangladesh Under-14 Girls Football team and stranded citizens boards BAF C130 for Bangladesh:


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## nomi007

saif ul islam azam 1 of the legend officer shoot 10 Israeli jets in 1967

did bangalis take any interview from his


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## Bilal9

nomi007 said:


> saif ul islam azam 1 of the legend officer shoot 10 Israeli jets in 1967
> 
> did bangalis take any interview from his



Yes he comfortably lives in Dhaka but he has long since retired from the BAF where he commanded the main airbase here (BAF Base Bashar). He runs some successful businesses with his family members. He is one of the twenty two 'Living Eagles' of the world. He was born in 1941 so he is quite advanced in his age now.

Here's the wiki page.

Saiful Azam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## nomi007

Bilal9 said:


> Yes he comfortably lives in Dhaka but he has long since retired from the BAF where he commanded the main airbase here (BAF Base Bashar). He runs some successful businesses with his family members. He is one of the twenty two 'Living Eagles' of the world. He was born in 1941 so he is quite advanced in his age now.
> 
> Here's the wiki page.
> 
> Saiful Azam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


did any bangla channel takes interview from him


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## Bilal9

nomi007 said:


> did any bangla channel takes interview from him



Sorry Bhai I've been searching but no luck so far...


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## nomi007

Bilal9 said:


> Sorry Bhai I've been searching but no luck so far...


you have a living legend 
take any interview and discuss his view about service in paf and 1967 war

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## Bilal9

nomi007 said:


> you have a living legend
> take any interview and discuss his view about service in paf and 1967 war



Yup agree about the living legend part. I'm sure interviews were taken in the past however no one has uploaded them. Maybe he has a facebook page. His company is called Natasha Trading. I'll look it up.

OK found it.

You can send an e-mail at their address,

info (at) natashabd.com

Website is here,

Natasha Group | Contact us

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## monitor

Bangladeshi Yak-130 ajt test flight @bongbang @BDforever @Saiful Islam @Loki @iajdani and others

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## Bilal9

The first Yak-130 for the Bangladesh Air Force made its maiden flight on Apr. 29. The aircraft’s serial number is 130.12.02-0101. Delivery is expected to be in June and eight out of 16 aircraft on order have been constructed. (same image as above).

Asian Defence News: First Yak-130 for Bangladesh makes maiden flight

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## Arthur

monitor said:


> Bangladeshi Yak-130 ajt test flight @bongbang @BDforever @Saiful Islam @Loki @iajdani and others






Bilal9 said:


> The first Yak-130 for the Bangladesh Air Force made its maiden flight on Apr. 29. The aircraft’s serial number is 130.12.02-0101. Delivery is expected to be in June and eight out of 16 aircraft on order have been constructed. (same image as above).
> 
> Asian Defence News: First Yak-130 for Bangladesh makes maiden flight

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## Bilal9

Assembly line images





I'm just amazed at the amount of hardpoints and underwing stores that can be carried on the little Yak.

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## Dr. Sen

Bilal9 said:


>




Besh misti dekhte tyo plane ta.

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## Bilal9

Dr. Sen said:


> Besh misti dekhte tyo plane ta.



Dada Mishti-ta enjoy koira nen - Shigri Teto (boro-ta) ashbey. Ei elo boley


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## Dr. Sen

Bilal9 said:


> Dada Mishti-ta enjoy koira nen - Shigri Teto (boro-ta) ashbey. Ei elo boley




Dhur ekta compliment korlam, aar tui threat korchish.....

BTW tui Chitagonger bangla bolchish?


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## Bilal9

Dr. Sen said:


> Dhur ekta compliment korlam, aar tui threat korchish.....
> 
> BTW tui Chitagonger bangla bolchish?



Dada apnarey threat kortesey ke? 'Factual' kotha koilam. Shotto kotha. 

Shig-giri Biman bohor-e boro notun jongi biman jog hobey. 

Choto-tar training diya to boro kichu ekta chalaitey hobey. Nailey kinia luv ki?

BTW eita purai Dhakar Bangla. 

Ar Tui Tokari jodi ador koira koia thaken tailey thik aasey. Nailey thik nai.

Ochena manushder tui tokari kortey nai.


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## black-hawk_101

Heard that BAF is not looking to buy anything from PAC side. Instead they are looking for more or less like IAF fleet with MiG-29s, Yak-130s and may be some Russian or Swiss trainers on board. Also, India is heavily investing in BD which showcase that India will capture the BD in near decade.


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## Bilal9

black-hawk_101 said:


> Heard that BAF is not looking to buy anything from PAC side. Instead they are looking for more or less like IAF fleet with MiG-29s, Yak-130s and may be some Russian or Swiss trainers on board. Also, India is heavily investing in BD which showcase that India will capture the BD in near decade.



India does not use Yak-130 as AJT, they use BAE Hawk 128 model. Also, Indian AF does not plan to use Mig 29 for long, I believe Rafale is the eventual replacement for the Mig-21 which will face your JF-17.

Sheikh ka Beti has some say-so in purchasing AF planes but main decider is BAF personnel and planning dept. They have so far bought mostly Chinese equipment as with the Navy and Army.

Lately Russians have been offering much better terms and easy loans so Bangladesh has bought Mi-171SH and YAK-130 (among other things) and might buy larger Russian jets in the future (SU-27 successor or derivative) but it won't match Indian equipment so much. Malaysia has also bought SU-30MKK, where's the problem with that?

The only thing we could buy from Pakistan (if Hasina was somewhat neutral) is JF-17 (if offered with SD-10 and other advanced Chinese BVR and smart-bomb integration and that too from the Chinese themselves). But I hear Pakistan is going to be busy for a long time meeting its own needs at production rate of 25 per year. So even if Hasina was OK with Pakistani purchases (unlikely) even then we could not buy much.

Not only Indians but Pakistanis are also heavily investing in Bangladesh - setting up factories in our EPZ's. Bangladesh is filled with Pakistani towel factories and plants making home-textile goods (bedsheets, window-coverings, drapes etc.). Go to IKEA sometime and see how many things have 'Made in Bangladesh' written on them. These all come from Pakistani textile units that were re-located to Bangladesh.

Instead of complaining - bring your money here and invest. We are open for business.

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## chaanmia

black-hawk_101 said:


> Heard that BAF is not looking to buy anything from PAC side. Instead they are looking for more or less like IAF fleet with MiG-29s, Yak-130s and may be some Russian or Swiss trainers on board. Also, India is heavily investing in BD which showcase that India will capture the BD in near decade.



And thus internet decided thy fate -book of bullshits


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## Arthur

A Mi-17 helicopter belonging to the BAF Base Zahurul Haque crashed during a training mission.Three pilots injured.They were the pilot and the two co-pilots.

Air force helicopter crashes at Chittagong base, three injured - bdnews24.com

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## black-hawk_101

Bilal9 said:


> India does not use Yak-130 as AJT, they use BAE Hawk 128 model. Also, Indian AF does not plan to use Mig 29 for long, I believe Rafale is the eventual replacement for the Mig-21 which will face your JF-17.
> 
> Sheikh ka Beti has some say-so in purchasing AF planes but main decider is BAF personnel and planning dept. They have so far bought mostly Chinese equipment as with the Navy and Army.
> 
> Lately Russians have been offering much better terms and easy loans so Bangladesh has bought Mi-171SH and YAK-130 (among other things) and might buy larger Russian jets in the future (SU-27 successor or derivative) but it won't match Indian equipment so much. Malaysia has also bought SU-30MKK, where's the problem with that?
> 
> The only thing we could buy from Pakistan (if Hasina was somewhat neutral) is JF-17 (if offered with SD-10 and other advanced Chinese BVR and smart-bomb integration and that too from the Chinese themselves). But I hear Pakistan is going to be busy for a long time meeting its own needs at production rate of 25 per year. So even if Hasina was OK with Pakistani purchases (unlikely) even then we could not buy much.
> 
> Not only Indians but Pakistanis are also heavily investing in Bangladesh - setting up factories in our EPZ's. Bangladesh is filled with Pakistani towel factories and plants making home-textile goods (bedsheets, window-coverings, drapes etc.). Go to IKEA sometime and see how many things have 'Made in Bangladesh' written on them. These all come from Pakistani textile units that were re-located to Bangladesh.
> 
> Instead of complaining - bring your money here and invest. We are open for business.


So bd has plans to acquire iaf mig29s. Also Russians might like to sell them more used ones with upgrades.


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## Bilal9

Khan saheb said:


> A Mi-17 helicopter belonging to the BAF Base Zahurul Haque crashed during a training mission.Three pilots injured.They were the pilot and the two co-pilots.
> 
> Air force helicopter crashes at Chittagong base, three injured -
> bdnews24.com



Alhamdulillah everyone is safe. The Mi-17's are getting a bit long in the tooth. We should retire the old ones.



black-hawk_101 said:


> So bd has plans to acquire iaf mig29s. Also Russians might like to sell them more used ones with upgrades.



Mig 29's are history bhaisaab. The new ones are called Mig 35.


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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> Alhamdulillah everyone is safe. The Mi-17's are getting a bit long in the tooth. We should retire the old ones.


looks like this one was overhauled in Russia recently.The paint job is one of the newer ones.Though it can be 
dust.Report says,it caught fire after crashed.


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## black-hawk_101

Bilal9 said:


> Alhamdulillah everyone is safe. The Mi-17's are getting a bit long in the tooth. We should retire the old ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Mig 29's are history bhaisaab. The new ones are called Mig 35.


But be will buy more used ones with upgrades.


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## Arthur



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## Arthur

BAF LET-410

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## Zabaniyah

The Yak looks bigger than I had imagined.

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## Arthur

Loki said:


> The Yak looks bigger than I had imagined.


??


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## xplayer

(Y) (Y)


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## bongbang



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## monitor



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## Shams313

masud said:


>


How much we r still operating.....?...i think we have two...once in dhaka ,i saw one of these twins....


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## masud

Optimus prime said:


> How much we r still operating.....?...i think we have two...once in dhaka ,i saw one of these twins....


i have no idea...........


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## Shams313

masud said:


> i have no idea...........


yeah! we have two flying dolphin.....
.





Look at the twins.....awesome


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## black-hawk_101

Optimus prime said:


> yeah! we have two flying dolphin.....
> .
> View attachment 222766
> 
> Look at the twins.....awesome


So why a mix of fleet? Augusta n Eurocopter?


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## masud

black-hawk_101 said:


> So why a mix of fleet? Augusta n Eurocopter?


ARMY chose Eurocopter and navy chose Augusta.


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## black-hawk_101

masud said:


> ARMY chose Eurocopter and navy chose Augusta.


WOW! What a collaboration.

Though out of topic but I think PN might be looking to acquire some more Sea King with upgrades to add its existing fleet of 6.


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## Arthur

PT 6
credit :BAH

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## Bilal9

black-hawk_101 said:


> WOW! What a collaboration.
> 
> Though out of topic but I think PN might be looking to acquire some more Sea King with upgrades to add its existing fleet of 6.



The two branches of armed forces do not mix fleets because their maintenance arms are clearly different.

The Navy is also supposed to induct Z-9's at some point.

And the Army is also looking to add Z-10 attack helicopters like your Army.

Both fighting forces have quite a mix of equipment. Which will help them choose and standardize.

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## bongbang

*AgustaWestland announced that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) of the People’s Republic of Bangladesh has signed a contract for two AW139 intermediate twin-engine helicopters.*

*These helicopters, which will be delivered by the end of 2015, will be operated by the Bangladesh Air Force to perform maritime search and rescue (SAR) and other utility missions.*

This contract, which also includes a comprehensive support and training package, marks the establishment of the first dedicated maritime SAR helicopter fleet in the country. The AW139 was selected after an extensive evaluation process against a wide range of requirements including performance and safety. By choosing the AW139, the Bangladesh MoD will leverage on Finmeccanica – AgustaWestland’s extensive expertise in SAR and emergency services as well as the unmatched capabilities of the bestselling and most modern helicopter for the task.

The Bangladesh Air Force’s AW139s will feature an advanced mission configuration including a search/weather radar, FLIR, search light, rescue hoist, emergency floats and a state-of-the-art 4-axis dual digital AFCS with hover and SAR modes. Thanks to the AW139, the Bangladesh Air Force will be able to carry out the most demanding all-weather SAR operations in a maritime environment and will benefit from the high role versatility of the helicopter to conduct other utility missions in support of maritime security and disaster relief operations.

Bangladesh Orders Two AW139 Helicopters for Maritime SAR | Naval Today

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## Barmaley

first Yak-130 for Bangladesh Air Force

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## The Great One (Mod ver)

Barmaley said:


> first Yak-130 for Bangladesh Air Force


Can these be armed and reconfigured for active combat - that is without any mods?


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## Barmaley

The Great One (Mod ver) said:


> Can these be armed and reconfigured for active combat - that is without any mods?



Well, yes.

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## PlanetSoldier

Barmaley said:


> first Yak-130 for Bangladesh Air Force


Cool pic...thanks.


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## Bilal9

The Great One (Mod ver) said:


> Can these be armed and reconfigured for active combat - that is without any mods?



The short answer is that a reconfiguration is not needed for active combat. BAF likes having platforms that can fulfill multiple missions. That is a BAF philosophy since our country is small and resources a bit limited.

From wiki:

"Yak-130 is an advanced pilot training aircraft, able to replicate characteristics of Russian 4th and 5th generation fighters. This is possible through the use of open architecture digital avionics compliant with a 1553 Databus, a full digital glass cockpit, four-channel digital Fly-By-Wire System (FBWS) and Instructor controlled and variable FBWS handling characteristics and embedded simulation. The type also has a Head-up display (HUD) and a Helmet-Mounted-Sighting-System (HMSS), with a double GPS/GLONASS receiver updating an Inertial Reference System (IRS) for highly accurate navigation and precision targeting.The developer estimates that the plane can cover up to 80% of the entire pilot flight training program.

In addition to its training role, the aircraft is capable of fulfilling Light Attack and Reconnaissance duties. It can carry a combat load of 3,000 kilograms (6,600 pounds), consisting of various guided and un-guided weapons, auxiliary fuel tanks and electronic pods. According to its chief designer Konstantin Popovich, during a testing phase that ended in December 2009, the plane was tested with *"all airborne weapons with a weight of up to 500 kg that are in service in the Russian Air Force"*. Yak-130 has nine hard points: two wingtip, six under-wing and one under-fuselage."

Since this fulfills our AJT role for BAF, and missile practice is part of the training, then yes, it is capable of firing missiles. Now whether it can fire so-called third world BVR missiles (PL10 or Astra equivalent) is another question...

Since it was tested with most AA missiles in Russian inventory - including the Vympel *R-73, R-77* and *K-77 (AMRAAMski) *missile variants, which all weigh less than 500 kg (see red highlighted text above), I'd think BVR is within capability.

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## masud




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## bdslph

there are several yak130 models i wonder which one is BAF is buying


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## bongbang

Barmaley said:


> first Yak-130 for Bangladesh Air Force



What is the model of BD Yak 130s? Are they upgraded M2 version?

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## Barmaley

bongbang said:


> What is the model of BD Yak 130s? Are they upgraded M2 version?



There is no such thing as upgraded version. All of them has name "Yak-130", two seats combat-training jets.



bongbang said:


> What is the model of BD Yak 130s? Are they upgraded M2 version?



There is no such thing as upgraded version. All of them has name "Yak-130", two seats combat-training jets.


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## bongbang

Barmaley said:


> There is no such thing as upgraded version. All of them has name "Yak-130", two seats combat-training jets.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as upgraded version. All of them has name "Yak-130", two seats combat-training jets.



Watch from 10:30. The video says there is a upgrade program in Yak 130. Two upgrades. M1 and M2. I wonder if BD is getting the M2 version or not.


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## bongbang

*Bangladesh to build fighter planes one day, hopes PM*

Expressing her high hope to build fighter planes by Bangladesh on its own in future, Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday reaffirmed her strong resolve to turn Bangladesh Air Force into a strong and more effective force by the time when the country will be observing its golden jubilee of independence, reports UNB. "I hope we'll be able to build fighter planes of our own in the future, Inshaallah. Bangladesh Air Force will be turned into a strong and more effective force from strategic point through its further modernisation by the time when the country will be observing its golden jubilee of independence." she said. *The Prime Minister was addressing a function marking the induction of three L-410 training aircraft to the Air Force fleet held at the BAF Base Bashar in the city.* "Awami League government has always given special importance to development of the Air Force and ensuring welfare of the members of this force. The pace of such development will continue," she told the function. Hasina said with the induction of the three L-410 training aircraft to the Air Force fleet, the cost of necessary training would reduce as well as such aircraft would be able to conduct necessary search and rescue operations, patrol, air survey, paratrooping and thus raising the overall transport capacity of Bangladesh Air Force to international standards. The *Prime Minister mentioned that advanced Jet trainer YAK-130 would be procured soon from Russia under Loan protocol while one more Mi-171SH helicopter from Russia would be inducted soon to the Bangladesh Air Force under Russian loan protocol while a process is underway to purchase another Mi- 171E helicopter. Besides, two Agusta Westland helicopters are going to be inducted to the Air Force fleet to bring dynamism into the maritime search and rescue operations.* Mentioning that there is no alternative to labour, professional skills and honesty, the Prime Minster asked the Air Force personnel to pay attention to training and exercise imbued with the motto of highest discipline and patriotism. "Become vanguard at airspace during battle and become close friends of people in tackling natural disasters." She said not only the Bangladesh Air Force, her government has been continuing its drive to develop each and every institution and continue it. Listing her government's various steps taken for the development of the Bangladesh Air Force, *Hasina said that 4th generation state-of-the-art MIG-29 fighter planes were inducted to the Air Force fleet in 2000 alongside induction of superior and spacious C-130 transport aircraft and high-capacity air defense rada*r*. After assuming office in 2009, she said modern F-7BG1 fighter plane has already been included to the Air Force Carrier alongside induction for the first time of the Surface to Air Missile. Besides, Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center has been set up to ensure proper, safe and cost-effective maintenance and overhauling of all sorts of aircraft, radar and other machineries, including that of F-7 fighter planes. She said the overhauling activities of F-7 fighter planes has already started at the maintenance, repairing and overhauling (MRO) plant and work for completing the MRO unit for the Mi series helicopter overhauling is in the final stage. "I hope such establishments would help the Air Force achieve self-reliance and create scope for earning foreign currency through conducting overhauling activities of the aircraft and helicopters of foreign Air Force.*" She also asked the Air Force personnel concerned to become utmost careful towards ensuring flying and maintenance of these L-410 aircraft which were procured with the hard-earned taxpayers' money. According to the Air Force, the government on June 26, 2014 approved the procurement of L-410 to meet the requirement of transport trainer aircraft for BAF. Consequently, 103 Air Transport Training Unit (ATTU) started its journey as per prepared TO&E with effect from 15 April 2015. This unit will operate Czech Republic made three L- 410 aircraft. A total of four pilots and 23 BAF airmen were trained on the aircraft from the aircraft factory. The aircraft will be primarily utilized for conversion training, instructor training, air navigation, airmen aircrew training and air movement procedure training. Besides, the aircraft can be used for SAR mission, aerial survey and photo reconnaissance, para trooping, aerial delivery. The aircraft with 2 pilots and capacity of 19 passengers has a maximum range of 1400 kilometer. Hasina said her government is always sincere to ensure more participation and representation of the Bangladesh Air Force in the UN peacekeeping mission. In this connection, she said a contingent of *Bangladesh Air Force comprising 110 members and three helicopters would soon join the UN peacekeeping mission in Haiti.* Meanwhile, the Prime Minister took salute from a smartly turned-out contingent of the Air Force in connection with the induction ceremony with Wing Commander Rashed Ahmed Siddique leading it. During the parade, Sheikh Hasina handed over the 'Induction Order' to the parade commander. After the parade, the Prime Minister witnessed a static display of newly inducted three L-410 Transport Trainer Aircraft made by Czech.


Bangladesh to build fighter planes one day, hopes PM


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## bongbang

BAF Combat SAR 2015

Too much drama

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## monitor

Air Platforms
*Bangladesh preparing to receive first of three L 410 transports*
*Alan Warnes, London* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
21 April 2015
Czech manufacturer Aircraft Industries has completed the first of three L 410UVP-E20 twin-turboprop transport aircraft for the Bangladeshi Air Force (BAF).

The aircraft, 3011/OK-JPG (c/n 3011), was being flight tested before delivery at the company's factory in Kunovice in late March.

The current BAF transport fleet includes three Antonov An-32s, two of which were delivered in 1990 and the third in 1995, and four 1960s-era ex-US Air Force Lockheed C-130B Hercules, delivered from 2002.

In 2012, the US Congress was notified of a possible sale of four ex-USAF C-130Es to Bangladesh, but nothing further has been heard of that potential deal.



(101 words)


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## bdslph

bongbang said:


> BAF Combat SAR 2015
> 
> Too much drama



yup got to say we watched too much indian serial hehehhe\

but the trailer is nice though


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## masud

Is this logo under the yak is real or fack. i think it,s photoshop. .........

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## Bilal9

masud said:


> Is this logo under the yak is real or fack. i think it,s photoshop. .........



Hey! That almost looks like your avatar

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## Assault Rifle

Bangladesh Air Force Mi-17 fleet according to Russia's Union of Aviation Industrialists magazine issue May 29 2015:

14 Mi-17 delivered---1 lost in crash. 
2 Mi-17 VIP model delivered.
8 Mi-171 SH delivered---1 lost in crash. 

22 Mi-17s of various versions in active service. 

1 additional Mi-17E2 under advance stages of negotiations. Delivery eight months after completion of negotiations and signing of contract.

7 Mi-8s delivered in 1970s retired from fleet in 1998.

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## masud

Bilal9 said:


> Hey! That almost looks like your avatar


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## monitor



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## Zabaniyah

Bilal9 said:


> Hey! That almost looks like your avatar



Are you sure?


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## bongbang

*Abu Esrar appointed as new air chief*

Air Vice Marshal Abu Esrar will take over the command of the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) from June 12 next, said a release from the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Directorate on Thursday.

He is set to take over the command the BAF for three years from June 12 as the Defence Ministry issued a notification in this connection, the release added.

Air Vice Marshal Esrar will replace the outgoing air chief Air Marshal Mohammad Enamul Bari.


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## masud

if bd air force invite (RUSSIA AND CHINA) to offer 2 bilion fighter jet dill+ inculding full weapons packeg and others related equipment then what is you gyes can offar us ?


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## Avisheik

masud said:


> if bd air force invite (RUSSIA AND CHINA) to offer 2 bilion fighter jet dill+ inculding full weapons packeg and others related equipment then what is you gyes can offar us ?




They can offer us plenty of stuff.
The real question is our ability to pay off the 2bn dollar.


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## masud

Avisheik said:


> They can offer us plenty of stuff.
> The real question is our ability to pay off the 2bn dollar.



1st of all it,s nothing related to official BD AIR FORCE. it,s only my personal curiosity. and don,t understimet BD economic ability.
 




i just want to know that, what we can buy espacialy (MIG-29M2/ MIG-35 unit+ armament packeg)
examle= russia offer 46 mig 29m2 or 36 mig-35.

My question is very simple.
IT,S AN OPEN BID. WE HAVE 2 BIL. MONEY WHAT,S YOUR OFFER FOR BANGLADESH AIR FORCE?

@Horus @vostok @Barmaley @cirr plz tag them who has a good knowledge about this.


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## Kompromat

Go for J-10b with an AWACs package. Mig-29s have never won a single battle against the F series. Recently the Saudi coalition annihilated Yemeni airforce including many Mig-29s operated by Huthis.

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## masud

Horus said:


> Go for J-10b with an AWACs package. Mig-29s have never won a single battle against the F series. Recently the Saudi coalition annihilated Yemeni airforce including many Mig-29s operated by Huthis.


how many j-10b unit + awac we can buy in 2 bl..............?


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## Kompromat

masud said:


> how many j-10b unit + awac we can buy in 2 bl..............?



About 2 Squadrons including AWACs.


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## UKBengali

Horus said:


> About 2 Squadrons including AWACs.



J-10B is an excellent fighter but BD will more inclined towards SU-30 as it has better loiter time and can carry heavier weapons package.

SU-30 will be excellent fighter to provide effective defensive/offensive power out over wide areas of the Bay of Bengal.

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## Arthur

Full weapon Package:










PT 6:

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## Bilal9

I know this video may have been posted before somewhere, but it's a good one,

*Bangladesh Air Force 25th Squadron-Albatross(Jet Trainer)*


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## masud




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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## bongbang

Letest Anirban show on Bangladesh Air force indicated that, BAF is bringing Vityaz missile system or S350E MRSAM from Russia on loan along with YAK130. A bad quality video is on Youtube.

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## ghost250

but we hv purchased LY-80E!!...right...??? ..


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## TopCat

bongbang said:


> Letest Anirban show on Bangladesh Air force indicated that, BAF is bringing Vityaz missile system or S350E MRSAM from Russia on loan along with YAK130. A bad quality video is on Youtube.
> View attachment 241903


do you have the link for the video?


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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> but we hv purchased LY-80E!!...right...??? ..



This is still unconfirmed. @iajdani might be able to shed some light. Bhaisaab?


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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> This is still unconfirmed. @iajdani might be able to shed some light. Bhaisaab?



I dont think we have ever purchased LY-80E.

S-350 is the best medium range SAM in the world right now. Airforce made the right decision.

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## Bilal9

iajdani said:


> I dont think we have ever purchased LY-80E.
> 
> S-350 is the best medium range SAM in the world right now. Airforce made the right decision.



There was a discussion on it a few weeks ago in the Pakistan defence section.

S-350 Missile for Russian Air Defense


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## DANGER-ZONE

masud said:


> Is this logo under the yak is real or fack. i think it,s photoshop. .........



The hell !
You guys copied our Air Force's identical color scheme ?

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## masud

DANGER-ZONE said:


> The hell !
> You guys copied our Air Force's identical color scheme ?


----------



## nomi007

nomi007 said:


> you have a living legend
> take any interview and discuss his view about service in paf and 1967 war


@Saiful Islam


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## bongbang

iajdani said:


> do you have the link for the video?



That is a bad quality video. From 14:00







shourov323 said:


> but we hv purchased LY-80E!!...right...??? ..



By report of aviationweek.com BD already got LY80 from China.

LY-80 (HQ-16) medium-range SAM supplied to Pakistan & Bangladesh: Report

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## black-hawk_101

DANGER-ZONE said:


> The hell !
> You guys copied our Air Force's identical color scheme ?



How many of these BDs have bought and @ what price? I think BD should go for:
30 Platius
30 Yak-130s
100 used MiG-29s with upgrades


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## masud

black-hawk_101 said:


> How many of these BDs have bought and @ what price? I think BD should go for:
> 30 Platius
> 30 Yak-130s
> 100 used MiG-29s with upgrades

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## Bilal9




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## black-hawk_101

BD needs to acquire more used MiG-29s from Russia to make a fleet of about 120 of them and upgrade them with Russian help to MiG-35 standard in terms of avionics. Also, a new order to complete the fleet of Yak-130 to 30 in total.

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## Nabil365

Myanmar does not find bangladesh air force as a threat

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## Nabil365

But compare vietnam or thailand with myanmar


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## Nabil365

Should we get Su-30mk2 or more mig-29(any variant)


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## bdslph

su 30 mk2 is need for the cox bazar base for the long range in the sea area


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## Nabil365

Does Su-30mk2 has thrust vector?


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## bdslph

Su30 mk2 dont have TVC or canarad


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## Nabil365

Bangladesh should prepare to buy Qaher-313 from Iran


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## al_asad_al_mulk

Nabil365 said:


> Bangladesh should prepare to buy Qaher-313 from Iran


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## Arthur

Nabil365 said:


> Bangladesh should prepare to buy Qaher-313 from Iran



Stop your nonsense.This is a forum not Facebook,where you come and make smart *** comments and publish status daily.Say something when you have something constructive to say,otherwise read and stay shut.DON"T waste Thread space.

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## bdslph

Nabil365 said:


> Bangladesh should prepare to buy Qaher-313 from Iran



dude you have to talk realistic


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## chaanmia

Khan saheb said:


> Stop your nonsense.This is a forum not Facebook,where you come and make smart *** comments and publish status daily.Say something when you have something constructive to say,otherwise read and stay shut.DON"T waste Thread space.


hete notun aise mone hoy

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## Rokto14

Wow looks like Yak-130 is ready for delivery! How many coming by this year? And where are the new L-410 transport aircraft based at?


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## SQ8

You guys hope for a lot, but the fact remains that with Bangladesh's limited land area.. the approach was one that was identified by the Pakistan air force early on(and hopefully, many of the Bengali officers of that time carried those common ideas and training forward). There is little to fall back on, little to defend vis-a-vis the BD Army. What is needed then is the ability to disperse a lot of the BD assets quickly so that they survive onslaughts by an attacker. 
For that the Mig-29s and F-7BGI's are already well set to take off from short distances. But that will mean that BD develop a highway strip structure that can support dispersal. In addition, BD needs a serious network centric system that ensures that its assets have similar or better situational awareness than the enemy. 

Su-30MK2s may be formidable aircraft but they require large runways to operate from. By contrast, the Mig-29 can take off within 800m which is doable for many of BD roads and intersections. What BD Needs is well camouflaged secondary airbases beyond the usual setups that have been there since the times of 47. These need to use the natural foliage to their best advantage.

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## MilSpec

Oscar said:


> and F-7BGI's are already well set to take off from short distances.


I thought Mig21's have one of the most enormous takeoff runs, anything different with pg/bgi?


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## SQ8

MilSpec said:


> I thought Mig21's have one of the most enormous takeoff runs, anything different with pg/bgi?


Mirage, F-7PG and other combat aircrafts | Page 28

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## MilSpec

Oscar said:


> Mirage, F-7PG and other combat aircrafts | Page 28


wow 35%...


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## Arthur

chaanmia said:


> hete notun aise mone hoy


Still.onekei তো এই বছর ই আসলাম।আগে দেখুক বাকি সবাই কি কয়,ক্যাম্নে কয়।দেইখা শিখতে সমস্যা কি ?? 


Rokto14 said:


> Wow looks like Yak-130 is ready for delivery! How many coming by this year? And where are the new L-410 transport aircraft based at?


LET 410's are based in Tejgaon.

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## SQ8

MilSpec said:


> wow 35%...


Yup, take that on the takeoff performance of the F-7M empty was around 900m on average, which means the MG is doing in in less than 600m. While not as impressive as the Harriers 300m loaded takeoff roll, is still pretty good for a small low maintenance but well equipped point interceptor capable of being hidden in the forest.. and all it needs is some 800m of strip to maintain operations.

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## Donatello

Oscar said:


> Yup, take that on the takeoff performance of the F-7M empty was around 900m on average, which means the MG is doing in in less than 600m. While not as impressive as the Harriers 300m loaded takeoff roll, is still pretty good for a small low maintenance but well equipped point interceptor capable of being hidden in the forest.. and all it needs is some 800m of strip to maintain operations.



Well, empty take off roll isn't much useful is it? Besides, modern aerial photography has rendered the 'camouflage' approach to hiding your runways/roads/hangers, useless.

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## Nike

Oscar said:


> You guys hope for a lot, but the fact remains that with Bangladesh's limited land area.. the approach was one that was identified by the Pakistan air force early on(and hopefully, many of the Bengali officers of that time carried those common ideas and training forward). There is little to fall back on, little to defend vis-a-vis the BD Army. What is needed then is the ability to disperse a lot of the BD assets quickly so that they survive onslaughts by an attacker.
> For that the Mig-29s and F-7BGI's are already well set to take off from short distances. But that will mean that BD develop a highway strip structure that can support dispersal. In addition, BD needs a serious network centric system that ensures that its assets have similar or better situational awareness than the enemy.
> 
> Su-30MK2s may be formidable aircraft but they require large runways to operate from. By contrast, the Mig-29 can take off within 800m which is doable for many of BD roads and intersections. What BD Needs is well camouflaged secondary airbases beyond the usual setups that have been there since the times of 47. These need to use the natural foliage to their best advantage.




but defense planning is must be made accordingly with one nation need and defense planning, as an example Singapore which is an Island nation, a tiny one, they still opt for large fighter like F-15 SG and combined them with advanced medium fighter like F-16. So with Israel......

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## SQ8

Donatello said:


> Well, empty take off roll isn't much useful is it? Besides, modern aerial photography has rendered the 'camouflage' approach to hiding your runways/roads/hangers, useless.


Its not an empty roll either. TheF-7M fully loaded with three tanks takes around 1000m to hit the air. These air based off the Mig-12C airframe and hence are lighter(and shorter legged) than the later mig-21s in any case.


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## masud



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## Nabil365

What paintjobs will our su-30mk2 will be getting,similar to our mig29s?


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## Avisheik

masud said:


>



Hmm, looks like our air force is heavily concentrated in the middle of the country. To me it seems a bit unbalanced. By this picture, the southwest and the northwest seem to lack BAF infrastructure compared to the other parts of the country. Jessore the only airbase in these parts, is a training school and does not have much combat capability. 

Plus, the south east should get a radar unit as well, near cox's bazzar.


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## Arthur

masud said:


>





Avisheik said:


> Hmm, looks like our air force is heavily concentrated in the middle of the country. To me it seems a bit unbalanced. By this picture, the southwest and the northwest seem to lack BAF infrastructure compared to the other parts of the country. Jessore the only airbase in these parts, is a training school and does not have much combat capability.
> 
> Plus, the south east should get a radar unit as well, near cox's bazzar.


It's a very old map.BAF has some other installations that is not marked in the radar.Process to establish two more air base is on the way.One in Khulna other in Patuakhali.And FOB Cox-Bazar has it's own radar unit.

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## masud

Avisheik said:


> Hmm, looks like our air force is heavily concentrated in the middle of the country. To me it seems a bit unbalanced. By this picture, the southwest and the northwest seem to lack BAF infrastructure compared to the other parts of the country. Jessore the only airbase in these parts, is a training school and does not have much combat capability.
> 
> Plus, the south east should get a radar unit as well, near cox's bazzar.


the map olny show old + fixed *radar* station, i am quiet sure we have some mobile radar system............

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## monitor

News: The first Yak-130 AJT batch, consisting of 6 aircrafts will be dispatched to Bangladesh on September 17 from Russia.
খবরঃ Irkutsk কর্পোরেশন থেকে কেনা বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর ১৬টি ইয়াকোভলেভ ইয়াক-১৩০ যুদ্ধবিমানের মধ্যে প্রথম ব্যাচের ৬ টি বিমান আগামী ১৭ই সেপ্টেম্বর রাশিয়া ত্যাগ করবে।
State corporation Rostec General Director Sergei Chemezov has confirmed this.
.
"The first Yak-130 batch will be dispatched to Bangladesh on September 17 - six out of 16 vehicles envisaged by the contract will be delivered. We have seen planes being prepared for shipment in the plant's workshops," Chemezov said. He was visiting the Irkutsk Aircraft Plant together with Russian Presidential Aide Igor Levitin and acting Irkutsk Region Governor Sergei Yeroshchenko.
.
As an advanced jet training aircraft, The Yakovlev Yak-130 (NATO reporting name: Mitten) is able to replicate the characteristics of several 4+ generation fighters as well as the fifth-generation Sukhoi PAK FA. It can also perform light-attack and reconnaissance duties, carrying a combat load of 3,000 kg with it's 9 hard point.
.
In picture : A Yak-130 of BAF is flying over Russian sky for routine test flight. 
‪#‎Irkutsk‬ ‪#‎YAK130‬ ‪#‎SHIPMENT‬ ‪#‎BAF‬
Photo © ANDREY ZAKHARENKO
Shared by: Bangladesh Defence™
.
\A/

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## Nike

Khan saheb said:


> It's a very old map.BAF has some other installations that is not marked in the radar.Process to establish two more air base is on the way.One in Khulna other in Patuakhali.And FOB Cox-Bazar has it's own radar unit.



radar not radar, marked or not marked, even with google maps and google earth you can made a good maps with good details about any country military installation


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## Nabil365

If bangladesh makes or buys drones,which one will it be?


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## Bilal9

Nabil365 said:


> If bangladesh makes or buys drones,which one will it be?



*UAV*

Type 1. The smaller basic drone gathers intelligence using cameras and infrared sensors. Typically they are like larger remote control aircraft but with more sophisticated electronics and long-range transmitters including autopilot, telemetry, video transmitter and day-light cameras. The transmitted sensors/video cameras gives the Army more 'forward-control' information. This class of drone aircraft is known as Unmanned Air Vehicle (UAV)

Example: LSU-02 LAPAN: UAV from Indonesia





Launch from Frigate Helideck




Recovery using netting




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*UCAV*

Type 2. The second kind is more sophisticated and can launch guided bombs or guided missiles. They have even more sophisticated electronics and some even have satellite links. They also are larger, have higher fuel capacity and longer range capabilities, enabling longer loiter times. This class of drone aircraft is known as Unmanned combat air vehicle(UCAV). A perfect example is the 'predator' and similar drones. Link here,

General Atomics MQ-1 Predator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bangladesh currently possesses type 1 but may decide to get some type 2, all of Chinese manufacture. The Type 2 armed drones will _*improve *_counter-insurgency patrols in the CTG Hill tract area, among other things.


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## bdslph

we can buy some and produce most under TOT from china 
it will be help full for BGB and army af and navy

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## masud



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## Bilal9

^^^ Cessna 208 Caravan. Very versatile single turboprop. Army uses it as liaison transport...

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## masud



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## monitor

News: The first Yak-130 AJT/CAS batch, consisting of 6 aircrafts is dispatched and on their way to Bangladesh by two cargo aircrafts from Russia.
These aircrafts will be in BAF Base Zahurul Haque at Chittagong by today. Next shipment is scheduled very soon.
.

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## Bilal9

monitor said:


> News: The first Yak-130 AJT/CAS batch, consisting of 6 aircrafts is dispatched and on their way to Bangladesh by two cargo aircrafts from Russia.
> These aircrafts will be in BAF Base Zahurul Haque at Chittagong by today. Next shipment is scheduled very soon.
> .



Excellent news! These will be based at Zahurul Haque AB just like the *Aero L-39'*s then? They might transfer the L-39's to some other AB...


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## masud

This aircraft seen here landing at Shah Amanat International Airport( Antonov An-124 Ruslan) along with an Ilyushin Il-76 has carried YAK -130's

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## bdslph

i am excited when i can see the pics some one take pics


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## Nabil365

I really hate BGB!!!


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## Nabil365

Three BSF intruders beaten by villagers in Kurigram | Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com


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## Arthur

Nabil365 said:


> I really hate BGB!!!





Nabil365 said:


> Three BSF intruders beaten by villagers in Kurigram | Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com


What that has to do with air force??? 
You are seriously close to being labeled as a troll and false flager.Don't mislead the discussion in a sticky threads.Post it on a new thread.Or look up appropriate threads to post it.There is already a thread running on this topic.
Three BSF intruders beaten by villagers in Kurigram

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## Nabil365

Khan saheb said:


> What that has to do with air force???
> You are seriously close to being labeled as a troll and false flager.Don't mislead the discussion in a sticky threads.Post it on a new thread.Or look up appropriate threads to post it.There is already a thread running on this topic.
> Three BSF intruders beaten by villagers in Kurigram


Ok,thx anyway


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## Nabil365

If Bangladesh ever needs a stealth fighter,which one should we go for?


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## mb444

Nabil365 said:


> If Bangladesh ever needs a stealth fighter,which one should we go for?
> View attachment 258828




Is any of these available for sale to BD..... No....
Does BD have the necessary funds to purchase these..... No.......
Are most of these still in development......yes
Is it likely that the countries which are developing these are willing to sell their cutting edge tech to BD.....no

Please go through the thread and read and comprehend.... Military purchases are made after considering threat perception, funding and strategic positioning.

No one will be able to give you a lucid answer to such pie in the sky question.

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## Bilal9

Khan saheb said:


> What that has to do with air force???
> You are seriously close to being labeled as a troll and false flager.Don't mislead the discussion in a sticky threads.Post it on a new thread.Or look up appropriate threads to post it.There is already a thread running on this topic.
> Three BSF intruders beaten by villagers in Kurigram



Polapain. Bechara Bujhey nai.


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## masud

Unloading process of First batch of Yokolev Yak-130 AJT & COAS

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## Bilal9

Nabil - why don't you kindly familiarize yourself with the forum rules to avoid further issues.

Can someone kindly post a link for Nabil?

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## Bilal9

masud said:


> Unloading process of First batch of Yokolev Yak-130 AJT & COAS



Man that thing is one massive beast. An-225 is one and a half time again as big 

I think fuselages and wings come in separate packages and are assembled on site.


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## Nabil365

Bangladesh Army to buy attack helicopters | Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com


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## bdslph

China and Russia are the best offer for the BDAF


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## Invincible_at_Sea

mb444 said:


> Is any of these available for sale to BD..... No....
> Does BD have the necessary funds to purchase these..... No.......
> Are most of these still in development......yes
> Is it likely that the countries which are developing these are willing to sell their cutting edge tech to BD.....no
> 
> Please go through the thread and read and comprehend.... Military purchases are made after considering threat perception, funding and strategic positioning.
> 
> No one will be able to give you a lucid answer to such pie in the sky question.


Could not resist to login for thanking you (Y)

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## masud

Bilal9 said:


> Man that thing is one massive beast. An-225 is one and a half time again as big
> 
> I think fuselages and wings come in separate packages and are assembled on site.


probable 6 unit come.............

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## masud

Nabil365 said:


> Bangladesh Army to buy attack helicopters | Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com


yes we need dadicated attack chopper but now it,s not the correct time. wait for su-30..............


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## Nabil365

Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk is a utility helicopter we should get.When heavily upgraded it can be super stealthy.American SEALs used this heli to kill Osama.


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## Anubis



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## Rokto14

How many weeks will be needed to see the first flights by the BAF pilots using the YAKs?


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## chaanmia

Anubis said:


>


so we will assemble the wings

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## bdslph

chaanmia said:


> so we will assemble the wings



it will fly without wings hehehe
look nice body camo

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## Nabil365

Just the begin of a BIG picture
More surprises might come soon


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## mb444

Nabil365 said:


> Just the begin of a BIG picture
> More surprises might come soon




you are right... these are trainers that will prepare our pilots for next generation fighters


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## bdslph

Nabil365 said:


> Just the begin of a BIG picture
> More surprises might come soon



the camo looks like the F7 BG


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## monitor

Bilal9 said:


> Excellent news! These will be based at Zahurul Haque AB just like the *Aero L-39'*s then? They might transfer the L-39's to some other AB...


We will probably replace l-39 with Yak-130


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## mb444

monitor said:


> We will probably replace l-39 with Yak-130




replacing one set of trainer with another ..... as per the plan.... its just great that the YAKs can actually act as fighters to a capacity although limited is far in advance of anything L-39 was ever designed to do.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> replacing one set of trainer with another ..... as per the plan.... its just great that the YAKs can actually act as fighters to a capacity although limited is far in advance of anything L-39 was ever designed to do.



True. I really like the fact that you can change flight envelopes from a menu at the push of a button.


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## monitor

mb444 said:


> replacing one set of trainer with another ..... as per the plan.... its just great that the YAKs can actually act as fighters to a capacity although limited is far in advance of anything L-39 was ever designed to do.


lL-39 degine as trainer where yak-130 develope as light attack and jet trainer. A massive boast for our air force as they are loking for probably Russian heavyweight fighter like su-30


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## Imran Khan

l-15s should be replaced as they are old now i think some of them crashed in BD too ?


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## bdslph

Imran Khan said:


> l-15s should be replaced as they are old now i think some of them crashed in BD too ?



we dont have l15 that is new plane of china


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## Imran Khan

bdslph said:


> we dont have l15 that is new plane of china


sorry bro L-39 i mean to say


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## bdslph

Imran Khan said:


> sorry bro L-39 i mean to say



oh ok yes yes your right 
the Yak130 is for the palce of the A5 we use to have 
for the L39 replace ment we will need more Yak130 or other trainers


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## chisty_chowdhury

Imran Khan said:


> sorry bro L-39 i mean to say


If L-39 is gonna replace, it will be replaced by K-8 as Yak-130 has different role for BAF.


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## mb444

monitor said:


> We will probably replace l-39 with Yak-130




replacing one set of trainer with another ..... as per the plan.... its just great that the YAKs can actually act as fighters to a capacity although limited is far in advance of anything L-39 was ever designed to do.


chisty_chowdhury said:


> If L-39 is gonna replace, it will be replaced by K-8 as Yak-130 has different role for BAF.




The 9 K8s we have bought has replaced the T-37s. More may follow.

The 16 Yaks will replace the L39s.

Both will be used to train fighters, both have limited ability to step in as fighters in their own rights but I suspect they are primary role will be as trainers just like the jets they are replacing.


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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> replacing one set of trainer with another ..... as per the plan.... its just great that the YAKs can actually act as fighters to a capacity although limited is far in advance of anything L-39 was ever designed to do.
> 
> The 9 K8s we have bought has replaced the T-37s. More may follow.
> 
> The 16 Yaks will replace the L39s.
> 
> Both will be used to train fighters, both have limited ability to step in as fighters in their own rights but I suspect they are primary role will be as trainers just like the jets they are replacing.



Bangladesh having a small to medium sized air-force has no shortage of diversity for trainer prototypes...at one time or another we have operated Fouga Magisters, T-37 tweets, L-39's and now K-8's and Yak-130's.

K-8's are basic jet trainers while the Yak-130's are lead in trainers.

So the training progression is going to be: Nanchang CJ-6 --> K-8 --> Yak-130 -->Mig-29SE/Su-30

At some point a new advanced prop trainer is going to be introduced. I'd personally rather have that as a multi-role aircraft which can also be used as a COIN aircraft in a pinch.

*Some choices (all use the bulletproof, well-proven and very common Pratt and Whitney PT-6A Turboprop engine which allows fuel economy with great loiter time unlike jet engined trainers),*

Korea's KT-1 being made for Turkey, Indonesia and Peru. Here's one assembled in Peru (KT-1P). We could easily assemble this with ToT and save a ton of money...($7 Million each ex-Korea fly-away, a lot less with local assembly)






TAI Hurkus (Turkey) still in development





And the best (IMHO) Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano (9-14 Million). Indonesia just bought one squadron some for 10 Million apiece.


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## bdslph

as far as bdmilitary said the yak130 is replacing the avengers sqd of A5
so it mean we might have another type of plane trainers or yak130 / k8 in the sqd of l39

Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano is perfect for us but it has Western equip so we need permission first but i like that , we need trainer like thatit can do modern plane can do 

it cost 9 to 14 mil include what you get train weapons the kind of avionics you put etc... 
it cost 400 usd to 500 usd per hour flight that is really cheap

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## Bilal9

bdslph said:


> as far as bdmilitary said the yak130 is replacing the avengers sqd of A5
> so it mean we might have another type of plane trainers or yak130 / k8 in the sqd of l39
> 
> Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano is perfect for us but it has Western equip so we need permission first but i like that , we need trainer like thatit can do modern plane can do
> 
> it cost 9 to 14 mil include what you get train weapons the kind of avionics you put etc...
> it cost 400 usd to 500 usd per hour flight that is really cheap



Plus maintenance on these engines is cheap too. PT-6A is like the CFM-56 of the turboprop world. Pakistan Airlines Twin otters have used early version of this engine locally since the 60's. Almost every jet aircraft mechanic knows how to fix these by now. 

So KT-1 is a little cheaper but I think Super Tucano is far more capable (can carry AIM-9, China PL-9/TY-90 missiles)

As far as Basic Prop trainers go - I think we have to soldier on with the CJ-6's until CJ-7 is ready....still in trials. CJ-7 is a Yakovlev/Hongdu joint development....






More on topic,

Here are some images of the weapons fits on Belarus' Yak-130's

KAB-500Kr bombs





Four R-73s, S-25 and B-13 rockets, and with KAB-500Kr guided bombs

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## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> Plus maintenance on these engines is cheap too. PT-6A is like the CFM-56 of the turboprop world. Pakistan Airlines Twin otters have used early version of this engine locally since the 60's. Almost every jet aircraft mechanic knows how to fix these by now.
> 
> So KT-1 is a little cheaper but I think Super Tucano is far more capable (can carry AIM-9, China PL-9/TY-90 missiles)
> 
> As far as Basic Prop trainers go - I think we have to soldier on with the CJ-6's until CJ-7 is ready....still in trials. CJ-7 is a Yakovlev/Hongdu joint development....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More on topic,
> 
> Here are some images of the weapons fits on Belarus' Yak-130's
> 
> KAB-500Kr bombs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four R-73s, S-25 and B-13 rockets, and with KAB-500Kr guided bombs



woo love the yak130 armed plane , yes that is why i said for BAF should buy the embaer 
the Yak130 of BAF can do the work of A5


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## BDforever

Yak 130 at airport after arrival

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## Nabil365

Since Bangladesh is interested in attack heli,they should go for Ka-52 Alligator


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## BDforever

Nabil365 said:


> Since Bangladesh is interested in attack heli,they should go for Ka-52 Alligator
> View attachment 259629


I totally Agree, it is my favorite one


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## Nabil365

Mi-25 is decent as well....


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## BDforever

Nabil365 said:


> Mi-25 is decent as well....


nah, either i want Ka-52 or T-129


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## masud

BDforever said:


> nah, either i want Ka-52 or T-129


my choice..........t-129.

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## Nabil365

Why everyone lost interest in Apache???


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## masud

*Kamov Ka-50*
*Unit cost 500 million rubles (approx. $16 million) as of May 2011

Mil Mi-28
Unit cost US$15–16 million (2002)

Boeing AH-64 Apache
Unit cost AH-64A: US$20M (2007)
AH-64D: US$65M (2010)[4]
AH-64E: US$35.5M (FY2014)[

Eurocopter Tiger
Unit cost €27.4m[1] (Tiger HAP, FY2013)
€36.1m[1] (Tiger HAD, FY2013)

Agusta A129 Mangusta
Unit cost US$22 million (International version)

Denel Rooivalk
Unit cost $40 million (2007, estimated)

DON,T KNOW WHAT IS THE PRICE OF CHINES ATTACK HELO............



*


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## Nabil365

masud said:


> *Kamov Ka-50*
> *Unit cost 500 million rubles (approx. $16 million) as of May 2011
> 
> Mil Mi-28
> Unit cost US$15–16 million (2002)
> 
> Boeing AH-64 Apache
> Unit cost AH-64A: US$20M (2007)
> AH-64D: US$65M (2010)[4]
> AH-64E: US$35.5M (FY2014)[
> 
> Eurocopter Tiger
> Unit cost €27.4m[1] (Tiger HAP, FY2013)
> €36.1m[1] (Tiger HAD, FY2013)
> 
> Agusta A129 Mangusta
> Unit cost US$22 million (International version)
> 
> Denel Rooivalk
> Unit cost $40 million (2007, estimated)
> 
> DON,T KNOW WHAT IS THE PRICE OF CHINES ATTACK HELO............
> 
> 
> 
> *


Why is Apache so expensive?


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## masud

Nabil365 said:


> Why is Apache so expensive?


it consider to the best attack helo and every made in usa weapons is expensive...............


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## Bilal9

Found a nice video on the JF-17 posted recently. It is not often that an economical F-7 replacement becomes a reality in a country with no previous record of aircraft development (other than trainer aircraft of course).

But we don't even have that. Is it worth the money - probably.....

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## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> Found a nice video on the JF-17 posted recently. It is not often that an economical F-7 replacement becomes a reality in a country with no previous record of aircraft development (other than trainer aircraft of course).
> 
> But we don't even have that. Is it worth the money - probably.....



it is the the BLK III Jf17 i am waiting for


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## damiendehorn

bdslph said:


> it is the the BLK III Jf17 i am waiting for



If they can produce a stealthy single seat version with an advanced asea radar, thats priced under $30m.


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## BDforever

damiendehorn said:


> If they can produce a stealthy single seat version with an advanced asea radar, thats priced under $30m.


 steath+ASEA and so on under $30million


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## bdslph

BDforever said:


> steath+ASEA and so on under $30million



stealth then it will be like f35 not complete i dont think it will be under 30 mil also it will go over big improvement but it may be the cheapest stealth fighter

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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> steath+ASEA and so on under $30million



Boss you probably meant AESA....

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## Nabil365

Bangladesh Army personnel in China for air defence training | Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com


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## DANGER-ZONE

bdslph said:


> the camo looks like the F7 BG



They copied PAF F-16 camo, DITTO !

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## BDforever

mb444 said:


> you are right... these are trainers that will prepare our pilots for next generation fighters





monitor said:


> We will probably replace l-39 with Yak-130


these r not just for Training but also for land attack role Like Su25 with advanced avionics, btw 10 more on the card.

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## BDforever

Better picture of Yak130 of Bangladesh

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## chisty_chowdhury

The last two lines captured my attention.

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## asad71

At the moment people are calling BAF a flying club with plenty of trainers but no real thing.


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## Joe Shearer

asad71 said:


> At the moment people are calling BAF a flying club with plenty of trainers but no real thing.



And, in your opinion, what should they be doing instead?


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## asad71

Joe Shearer said:


> And, in your opinion, what should they be doing instead?




Once we have shed the demons that Indians have placed over us, we will be sovereign to decide our options to counter IAF which is the top potential threat to our air defense.


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## AMCA

asad71 said:


> Once we have shed the demons that Indians have placed over us, we will be sovereign to decide our options to counter IAF which is the top potential threat to our air defense.



Sir, with due respect, how can you call us hostile when we two countries have no outstanding issues? If India has to breach your air defence, what should it be over?


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## masud

AMCA said:


> Sir, with due respect, how can you call us hostile when we two countries have no outstanding issues? If India has to breach your air defence, what should it be over?


sir, every neibour country,s armed force is considered the main enemy by other country,s armed force, it,s simple is that.........

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## AMCA

masud said:


> sir, every neibour country,s armed force is considered the main enemy by other country,s armed force, it,s simple is that.........



I partially agree with you. Every country apart from a few exceptions have an influence of their immediate neighbors in their military buildup, but calling a country its threat is something different and more than being just cautious. Isnt it so?


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## masud

AMCA said:


> I partially agree with you. Every country apart from a few exceptions have an influence of their immediate neighbors in their military buildup, but calling a country its threat is something different and more than being just cautious. Isnt it so?


the behaviour of india is not friendly to bangladesh. i think the international polatics now day,s is so un-predectable. most of the indian pdf members view hare is "india creat bangladesh so india will controll bangladesh or something like that.......

long time ago 1 indian pdf vetern say me "if we can creat you then we can destroy you too". now country is rulled by it,s people and the relation of bangladesh and india does not seems good...............


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## Joe Shearer

asad71 said:


> Once we have shed the demons that Indians have placed over us, we will be sovereign to decide our options to counter IAF which is the top potential threat to our air defense.



That is verbiage.

Do you have anything practical in mind? Anything remotely resembling a plan of action, a configuration of your air force that will address specific mission objectives? Or are we condemned forever to listen to heavy breathing as a substitute for thought?


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## mb444

BAF needs to aquire a credible deterrence capability via-a-vis it's neighbours, it's as simple as that. 

We are not about to attack anyone but we need to be prepared to defend. The world is a dangerous place where things can turn in minutes.

Our defence must be assured, we can not solely depend on fate.

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## Joe Shearer

mb444 said:


> BAF needs to aquire a credible deterrence capability via-a-vis it's neighbours, it's as simple as that.
> 
> We are not about to attack anyone but we need to be prepared to defend. The world is a dangerous place where things can turn in minutes.
> 
> Our defence must be assured, we can not solely depend on fate.



All that was asked was an outline. Will these noble aspirations become specs, tenders, bid documents?


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## The Great One

mb444 said:


> credible deterrence


An Air Force having deterrence value? That's new. Can you convey that idea to the Pakistanis who may diversify their weekly threats of nuclear destruction of India with something more fresh and exciting.


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## mb444

Joe Shearer said:


> All that was asked was an outline. Will these noble aspirations become specs, tenders, bid documents?




You can have a look at the BAF modernisation plan. It's posted within the thread. It's assesses threat perception and proposes a roadmap.

All purchases have been following this plan.



The Great One said:


> An Air Force having deterrence value? That's new. Can you convey that idea to the Pakistanis who may diversify their weekly threats of nuclear destruction of India with something more fresh and exciting.



Aim that at the Pakistanis in one of the PAF threads.

Does India and IAF not state their defence build up for defence? Which country states their armed forces are for offensive capability?


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## 45'22'

BDforever said:


> Better picture of Yak130 of Bangladesh
> View attachment 262208


Talking about pics 
Beat this

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## asad71

That cannot happen as long as our defense remains outsourced to Delhi.

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## masud



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## TopCat

mb444 said:


> BAF needs to aquire a credible deterrence capability via-a-vis it's neighbours, it's as simple as that.
> 
> We are not about to attack anyone but we need to be prepared to defend. The world is a dangerous place where things can turn in minutes.
> 
> Our defence must be assured, we can not solely depend on fate.




Yes we cant afford to become syria. We must have enough deterrence.


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## bdslph

asad71 said:


> At the moment people are calling BAF a flying club with plenty of trainers but no real thing.



yes it is true but people without brains will say that 
Bangladesh dont have money like India and cannot go around and buy planes what ever you want 
every airforce has there own wants and needs 

time and things have change the trainers we had was old and we are retiring a lot of planes now so we have to replace them slowly with trainers first
so when new fighter planes come they are already ready to go to that plane 
look there is the k8 and yak130 and more of those are coming and there might be news one also
fighter we are looking for adding the Su or Mig series and J10 in future 

there is a lot of issues and things you have to do you cannot introduce a fighter plane

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## monitor

*New birds in Bangladesh Air Force's inventory.*
.
Two AgustaWestland AW139 MSAR helicopters are being delivered to Bangladesh Air Force a few days ago.
.
Some basic informations :
-------------------------------------------
• Role : Medium-lift Maritime Search And Rescue/utility helicopter
• Manufacturer : AgustaWestland
• Origin : Italy
• Operator : Bangladesh Air Force
• In service : 2 Units
• Home base : BAF Base Zahurul Haque, Chittagong.
.
Basic specifications:
----------------------------------
• Crew: 1 to 2
• Capacity: 15 passengers
• Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67C turboshaft engine, 1,142 kW (1,531 hp) each.
• Maximum speed: 310 km/h (193 mph)
• Cruising speed: 306 km/h (191 mph)
• Range: 1,250 km
• Endurance: 5 hours 56 min
• Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)
• Rate of climb: 10.9 m/s (2,140 ft/min)
.
These helicopters will be used for Search & Rescue, mainly at sea. Considering it's civilian camouflage these helicopters can also be used as an reconnaissance platform for gathering maritime activities and intelligence.
.
Photo © PSBD & bdmilitary 
‪#‎MSAR‬ ‪#‎BAF‬ ‪#‎AgustaWestlandAW139‬ 
Shared by: Bangladesh Defence





244 Likes14 Comments

@bongbang @BDforever @Saiful Islam @others

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## bongbang

masud said:


> *Kamov Ka-50*
> *Unit cost 500 million rubles (approx. $16 million) as of May 2011
> 
> Mil Mi-28
> Unit cost US$15–16 million (2002)
> 
> Boeing AH-64 Apache
> Unit cost AH-64A: US$20M (2007)
> AH-64D: US$65M (2010)[4]
> AH-64E: US$35.5M (FY2014)[
> 
> Eurocopter Tiger
> Unit cost €27.4m[1] (Tiger HAP, FY2013)
> €36.1m[1] (Tiger HAD, FY2013)
> 
> Agusta A129 Mangusta
> Unit cost US$22 million (International version)
> 
> Denel Rooivalk
> Unit cost $40 million (2007, estimated)
> 
> DON,T KNOW WHAT IS THE PRICE OF CHINES ATTACK HELO............
> 
> 
> *



*What about Mi24/25/35? Battle proven gunship based on our Mi17. Can also transport troops. These are making havoc on Syrian rebels. Comes up with upgrade which mistakes they made in Afghan scenario. I think cost is around $12 million. 

Russian Mi-24 Helicopter Pilots in Syria Wow Western Analysts










*


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## Bilal9

bongbang said:


> *What about Mi24/25/35? Battle proven gunship based on our Mi17. Can also transport troops. These are making havoc on Syrian rebels. Comes up with upgrade which mistakes they made in Afghan scenario. I think cost is around $12 million.
> 
> Russian Mi-24 Helicopter Pilots in Syria Wow Western Analysts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



$12 Million is pretty reasonable for the havoc these things can cause. Unlimited (almost) loiter and plenty of countermeasures from missiles and ack ack fire. The powerplants are also well proven.

MI-35 is actually more appropriate for countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh than say Mi-28 which is more specialized, you can at least use the Mi-35's as part time transports. Very conventional and tough as nails.

I think Pakistan has just ordered a trial run of four Mi-35's probably for use in FATA and Waziristan trouble spots (?).

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## black-hawk_101

is BAF buying used MiG-29s?


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## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> $12 Million is pretty reasonable for the havoc these things can cause. Unlimited (almost) loiter and plenty of countermeasures from missiles and ack ack fire. The powerplants are also well proven.
> 
> MI-35 is actually more appropriate for countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh than say Mi-28 which is more specialized, you can at least use the Mi-35's as part time transports. Very conventional and tough as nails.
> 
> I think Pakistan has just ordered a trial run of four Mi-35's probably for use in FATA and Waziristan trouble spots (?).



bangladesh should buy some advance mi35 12 million is cheap for the deadly chooper



black-hawk_101 said:


> is BAF buying used MiG-29s?



not that i know of


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## Skywalker

The Great One said:


> An Air Force having deterrence value? That's new. Can you convey that idea to the Pakistanis who may diversify their weekly threats of nuclear destruction of India with something more fresh and exciting.


Dont bring pakistan into it mr. Delusional indiot, you should worry about yourself and mr. Pariker whose another joker representing 1.3 billions at our eastern neighbourhood.

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## black-hawk_101

I think for BAF it's good to buy some used F-16A/B from USAF as they have many of them with upgrades like MLU-4. I am sure about 100 of the used F-16A/B MLU-4 of any Block will make a big difference for the whole region along with some 50 used MiG-29 UPGs.

I know I am saying too much and BD don't have too much money now. But investing in over 10 years is good.


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## BDforever

black-hawk_101 said:


> I think for BAF it's good to buy some used F-16A/B from USAF as they have many of them with upgrades like MLU-4. I am sure about 100 of the used F-16A/B MLU-4 of any Block will make a big difference for the whole region along with some 50 used MiG-29 UPGs.
> 
> I know I am saying too much and BD don't have too much money now. But investing in over 10 years is good.


no, operation cost high+ comes with so many conditions and possible future sanction on spare parts

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## masud

bongbang said:


> What about Mi24/25/35? Battle proven gunship based on our Mi17. Can also transport troops. These are making havoc on Syrian rebels. Comes up with upgrade which mistakes they made in Afghan scenario. I think cost is around $12 million.





Bilal9 said:


> $12 Million is pretty reasonable for the havoc these things can cause. Unlimited (almost) loiter and plenty of countermeasures from missiles and ack ack fire. The powerplants are also well proven.
> 
> MI-35 is actually more appropriate for countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh than say Mi-28 which is more specialized, you can at least use the Mi-35's as part time transports. Very conventional and tough as nails.
> 
> I think Pakistan has just ordered a trial run of four Mi-35's probably for use in FATA and Waziristan trouble spots (?).





bdslph said:


> bangladesh should buy some advance mi35 12 million is cheap for the deadly chooper



sir, i may be wrong but i am not agree with you gyes................ 
little bit history..............
in vietnam war U.S.A use hyue to transport troops rapidly but soon they need massive fire power and introduce cobra attack helo. so U.S.S.R want a helo to transport and massive fire power both in same platfrom and the result is MI-24 HIND. but it neighter a good attack helo nor a good trops carrier, so the next development is mi-28 and kamov ka-52.
mi-24 is a good platfrom against weak oponent as like isil, taliban but sitting duck against superiour enemy in 2015.............
sending attack helo against who? mayanmar & india ?.............
i don,t belive that our air force can achive any air supremacy over enemy unntill now. for me operating a big fat helo mi-24/35 is pure joke and suiecide.............
so i want a platfrom as small as possible with advance sensors with big punch..................


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## BDforever

masud said:


> sir, i may be wrong but i am not agree with you gyes................
> little bit history..............
> in vietnam war U.S.A use hyue to transport troops rapidly but soon they need massive fire power and introduce cobra attack helo. so U.S.S.R want a helo to transport and massive fire power both in same platfrom and the result is MI-24 HIND. but it neighter a good attack helo nor a good trops carrier, so the next development is mi-28 and kamov ka-52.
> 
> sending attack helo against who? mayanmar & india ?.............
> i don,t belive that our air force can achive any air supremacy over enemy unntill now. for me operating a big fat helo mi-24/35 is pure joke and suiecide.............
> so i want a platfrom as small as possible with advance sensors with big punch..................


Ka-52 alligator period


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## bdslph

BDforever said:


> Ka-52 alligator period



NOT CHEAP


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## bongbang

BDforever said:


> Ka-52 alligator period



Okay Mi35M + Ka 52 

Mi35s will be used in insurgency. Break through conflicts, reach ammunition and troops.Special operations.
Mi35 + Ka 52 combo will be used in real battlefield. Support ground troops + other helis.


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## bdslph

you have to look over all it is ok for Mi35 latest version
ka52 will be a price like a fighter jet 

ka52 nor mi29 nor apache or a129 is safe from SAM


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## BDforever

bongbang said:


> Okay Mi35M + Ka 52
> 
> Mi35s will be used in insurgency. Break through conflicts, reach ammunition and troops.Special operations.
> Mi35 + Ka 52 combo will be used in real battlefield. Support ground troops + other helis.


no need for double fleets, it raises operational cost
and Ka-52 is superior to Mi35M



bdslph said:


> you have to look over all it is ok for Mi35 latest version
> ka52 will be a price like a fighter jet
> 
> ka52 nor mi29 nor apache or a129 is safe from SAM


ka-52 price is $32M


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## bdslph

BDforever said:


> no need for double fleets, it raises operational cost
> and Ka-52 is superior to Mi35M
> ka-52 price is $32M



ka52 is my dream the most advance in the world with the mi28 but we have to be realistic this are expensive 
not sure Bangladesh can buy those 
the best is mi35 M with the the Chinese z19E or z10 is a good match 

there was some one saying there is nothing in Syria to shoot down down the Mi24(older version)
RPG is even enough to shoot down the rebel is good and well trained there is anti aircraft weapons also 
it ends how the pilot well handle it the old Mi24 can survive then the Mi35 M will 
every one is buying it is worth even Pakistan is buying


----------



## bongbang

BDforever said:


> no need for double fleets, it raises operational cost
> and Ka-52 is superior to Mi35M
> 
> 
> ka-52 price is $32M



We have many variations of Helis. Mi35M will be around $20 million. Equal performance and price as Mi28N.
We know there will be no need to use these attack helis. But we cant be totally disarmed. 50% waste of money. In the mean time of infinite peace Mi35s can be used in other works. Medic or high ranking transport. Combat deployment, paratroopers and eliminate special targets or kidnap someone from enemy heartland. Total multipurpose heli.



bdslph said:


> ka52 is my dream the most advance in the world with the mi28 but we have to be realistic this are expensive
> not sure Bangladesh can buy those
> the best is mi35 M with the the Chinese z19E or z10 is a good match
> 
> there was some one saying there is nothing in Syria to shoot down down the Mi24(older version)
> RPG is even enough to shoot down the rebel is good and well trained there is anti aircraft weapons also
> it ends how the pilot well handle it the old Mi24 can survive then the Mi35 M will
> every one is buying it is worth even Pakistan is buying



Ka52 reject. Z19E+Mi35M final.


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## BDforever

bongbang said:


> We have many variations of Helis. Mi35M will be around $20 million. Equal performance and price as Mi28N.
> We know there will be no need to use these attack helis. But we cant be totally disarmed. 50% waste of money. In the mean time of infinite peace Mi35s can be used in other works. Medic or high ranking transport. Combat deployment, paratroopers and eliminate special targets or kidnap someone from enemy heartland. Total multipurpose heli.
> .


Ka-52 is way superior than Mi35M with latest weapons (which can not be used by Mi35M) and avionics. AESA is on the process to be integrated with Ka-52. It is attack+ reconnaissance, data exchangeable system.


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## masud



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## masud



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## Stannis Baratheon

bdslph said:


> ka52 is my dream the most advance in the world with the mi28 but we have to be realistic this are expensive
> not sure Bangladesh can buy those
> the best is mi35 M with the the Chinese z19E or z10 is a good match
> 
> there was some one saying there is nothing in Syria to shoot down down the Mi24(older version)
> RPG is even enough to shoot down the rebel is good and well trained there is anti aircraft weapons also
> it ends how the pilot well handle it the old Mi24 can survive then the Mi35 M will
> every one is buying it is worth even Pakistan is buying


RPG-7 can even shoot down an Apache AH-64. But US will not tell you that. To save face they will say it crashed due to "technical faults".


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## masud

Stannis Baratheon said:


> RPG-7 can even shoot down an Apache AH-64. But US will not tell you that. To save face they will say it crashed due to "technical faults".



it remember me the movie "black hawk down".................

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## bdslph

masud said:


> it remember me the movie "black hawk down".................



you talking abt that 

DURING THE IRAQ 2003 WAR A FARMER SHOOT DOWN APACHE WITH A AK47

FEW DOLLAR SHOOT DOWN A MULTI MILLION DOLLAR STATE OF THE ART AIRCRAFT


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## masud

bdslph said:


> you talking abt that
> 
> DURING THE IRAQ 2003 WAR A FARMER SHOOT DOWN APACHE WITH A AK47
> 
> FEW DOLLAR SHOOT DOWN A MULTI MILLION DOLLAR STATE OF THE ART AIRCRAFT


sorry what,s you trying to say i don,t get it. a farmer shoot down apache so what? it does not matter how advance you are in war time you will take casulty. what,s your point plz explain...............


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## bdslph

masud said:


> sorry what,s you trying to say i don,t get it. a farmer shoot down apache so what? it does not matter how advance you are in war time you will take casulty. what,s your point plz explain...............



sorry my mistake
some are saying the mi24/35 is easy to shoot down 
so i am just giving an example it doesnot matter how adavance or old model is your helo its comes down to the pilot also 
and everything can be shoot down 
________________

by the way as bangladesh budget is limited a combo or the latest mi17 mi35 series and with the chinese like the z19e and z10 that will be good enough for us 

take note why i say this model as we dont goto war and only in peacekeeping mission


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## bdslph

su30 mk2 baby in valenzuela


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## masud

bdslph said:


> sorry my mistake
> some are saying the mi24/35 is easy to shoot down
> so i am just giving an example it doesnot matter how adavance or old model is your helo its comes down to the pilot also
> and everything can be shoot down
> ________________
> 
> by the way as bangladesh budget is limited a combo or the latest mi17 mi35 series and with the chinese like the z19e and z10 that will be good enough for us
> 
> take note why i say this model as we dont goto war and only in peacekeeping mission


i don,t like mi-24/35 for BAF, my choice T-129.
Mayanmar and india both operat mi-24/35. + indain lch+soon apache.
you want attack helo.......? then buy pure attack helo. not hybried oh you want perticipet mi-24 in peach mission? sir it,s a long time we operating mi-17 in peach mission.
turky is now developing some very good armament for t-129 (everything for 1 platfrom).
wz-10 & wz-19 both compliment each other so those are my 2nd choice (2 platfrom)

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## masud

mi-17sh can also do what mi-24 is built for. mi-17sh 1st prioroty is transporting and attacking is the 2nd option. other side mi-24/35 is oposit.
for me mi-171sh is more appropriet then mi-24/35, and i will be happy if we buy more of this mi-17sh verson.

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## TopCat

Russia going to sell a whole lot of helis in coming days.. pay off for the Syria war


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## bdslph

iajdani said:


> Russia going to sell a whole lot of helis in coming days.. pay off for the Syria war



yup but the only helicopter they deploy are the mi24 and mi17 in syria


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## masud



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## bdslph

waiting to see some cool videos of yak13o of BAF in future


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## masud



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## masud



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## bongbang

5 of 6 delivered YAKs

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## bdslph

bongbang said:


> 5 of 6 delivered YAKs
> 
> View attachment 268791





bongbang said:


> 5 of 6 delivered YAKs
> 
> View attachment 268791



in the pics looks like 5 yak130


----------



## monitor

Close up on one of the newly added BAF's Yak-130 AJT/CAS as it taxis back to the ramp after completing a routine flight at BAF Base Zahurul Haque in Chittagong.
.
Bangladesh Air Force have received 6 × Yak-130 while more 10 to follow within a very short time.
.
Photo © PSBD
‪#‎BangladeshAirForce‬ ‪#‎YAK130‬ 
Shared by: Bangladesh Defence
.
\A/

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## masud



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## masud



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## kobiraaz

Jl8 & AW139


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## Nabil365

We really need some attack helicopters....


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## masud



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## masud



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## DESERT FIGHTER

kobiraaz said:


> Jl8 & AW139



Those are K-8

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## masud



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## DESERT FIGHTER

masud said:


>


That's a cute lil jet.. I wish I had millions of dollars to buy one...

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## masud



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## Avisheik

*Live firing exercise of BAF begins*

A seven-day air-to-ground live firing exercise titled ‘Exercise Eagle Eye’ of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) began at Haludia Firing Range in Bandarban on Sunday.

A good number of BAF fighter aircraft, including MiG-29B/UB, F-7BGI/FT-7BGI, F-7BG/FT-7BG, F-7MB/FT-7B, K-8W, AN-32 transport aircraft and Mi series helicopter, will participate in the exercise.
The exercise will be continued up to November 21, says an ISPR release.

Besides the live firing exercise, different air combat maneuvers and tactics will be practiced in the exercise.
The main objective of the exercise is to assess and evaluate operational capability of BAF and identify weaknesses to develop better air defence system.
A good number of fighter and airmen will participate in the said exercise.

Live firing exercise of BAF begins | daily-sun.com

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## asad71

Delhi has pushed us away to opt for the SU-30 which will still keep a huge negative gap with IAF. We could comfortably buy a squadron of twelve SU-35s for less than a billion and face IAF in the sky. PLAAF just signed a deal for twenty four of SU-35s for two blln.


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## cloud_digger

asad71 said:


> Delhi has pushed us away to opt for the SU-30 which will still keep a huge negative gap with IAF. We could comfortably buy a squadron of twelve SU-35s for less than a billion and face IAF in the sky. PLAAF just signed a deal for twenty four of SU-35s for two blln.



Wait what??? 12 su-35 to face IAF?? Can you be a little more precise on what you mean by "face IAF"? Because honestly I cannot fathom 12 jets taking on the IAF, unless of course they are 12 TARDIS disguised as jets.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> We could comfortably buy a squadron of twelve SU-35s for less than a billion and face IAF in the sky.



And the best humor award goes to............

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## asad71

cloud_digger said:


> Wait what??? 12 su-35 to face IAF?? Can you be a little more precise on what you mean by "face IAF"? Because honestly I cannot fathom 12 jets taking on the IAF, unless of course they are 12 TARDIS disguised as jets.




IAF is bakwas. In '65 War just one squadron of F-104s kept IAF away from entering into interior of Pakistan Most dogfights were over India or on the border. One Squadron of this lethal eqpt is just fine to start wetting Indian dhotis. More will follow obviously. In the air force it is always the quality of eqot and pilots that matter-- areas where Dhoti Air Force will never advance into.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> IAF is bakwas. In '65 War just one squadron of F-104s kept IAF away from entering into interior of Pakistan Most dogfights were over India or on the border. One Squadron of this lethal eqpt is just fine to start wetting Indian dhotis. More will follow obviously. In the air force it is always the quality of eqot and pilots that matter-- areas where Dhoti Air Force will never advance into.



India will crush your paper "airforce" in a matter of hours if not minutes. Even Myanmar will not struggle to do so in a day or two.

Bangladesh Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Myanmar Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thats if your airforce is not submerged/underwater to begin with because of some flood or cyclone 

One squadron of anything is not going to change anything, because Bangladesh is simply a third or 4th tier military at best in the world by size and quality...whatever the military arm. Be thankful that your politicians and majority of people do not want a conflict with India....it will be the last thing they wish for.

No Red Flag or COPE level exercise history with any major professional airforces of the world, because who really wants to waste the jetfuel to beat some rusty ground (or water)-ridden F-7s and Mig 29s without even trying?

At least PAF has some credibility to it. BAF is just a joke and will remain so for a very long time....especially given the population of Bangladesh.

Focus on countering the Burmese first to some degree (even that looks many years away for BAF)....then we can start to talk about comparing BAF with just one wing of the IAF.

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## asad71

Nilgiri said:


> India will crush your paper "airforce" in a matter of hours if not minutes. Even Myanmar will not struggle to do so in a day or two.
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Myanmar Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Thats if your airforce is not submerged/underwater to begin with because of some flood or cyclone
> 
> One squadron of anything is not going to change anything, because Bangladesh is simply a third or 4th tier military at best in the world by size and quality...whatever the military arm. Be thankful that your politicians and majority of people do not want a conflict with India....it will be the last thing they wish for.
> 
> No Red Flag or COPE level exercise history with any major professional airforces of the world, because who really wants to waste the jetfuel to beat some rusty ground (or water)-ridden F-7s and Mig 29s without even trying?
> 
> At least PAF has some credibility to it. BAF is just a joke and will remain so for a very long time....especially given the population of Bangladesh.
> 
> Focus on countering the Burmese first to some degree (even that looks many years away for BAF)....then we can start to talk about comparing BAF with just one wing of the IAF.




Fy unkind info, BAF fliers are flying with PLAAF, PAF, Saudi AF, UAE AF, RMAF, Turkish AF and Indonesian AF. In the event the Banya Dhotis dare to attack us, all hell will break loose on her to begin the Gazwe Hind slaughter of the 4th Battle of Panipath.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> Fy unkind info, BAF fliers are flying with PLAAF, PAF, Saudi AF, UAE AF, RMAF, Turkish AF and Indonesian AF.



Yah all irrelevant sort of things I bet...and probably the only exposure BAF gets to some non-rusted hardware. No one is doing major joint tactics training with BAF, because no one cares. If they are show me the link or a video (say something on the level of Anatolian Eagle)...all I see recently is some USAF-BAF exercise with parachute drops from a C-130. Does BAF even send its aircraft overseas to take part in anything? Does it get any invitation to anything that actually matters?



asad71 said:


> In the event the Banya Dhotis dare to attack us, all hell will break loose on her to begin the Gazwe Hind slaughter of the 4th Battle of Panipath.



The only one sided slaughter that has happened in South Asia in recent times was in 1971...with your lot often saying 3 million of you got butchered by your beloved PA. Maybe we should have let that go on for a few more years so that fewer ungrateful dummies like you would exist (either sanitised by PA or the even greater eventual backlash from Bengalis).

Its good to see AL is hanging you islamist fanatic PA-loving war traitor types frequently. No wonder you are hiding in Canada.

This is the best sort of video your Airforce can put out of its "exercises":










Now compare to:





















...and it is no surprise you have soiled your lungi 

It is actually quite demeaning to compare even just one wing of our AF to your entire 4th rate banana republic AF.

I mean BAF cannot do any kind of significant major strategic maneuver training without running out of airspace. Maybe you should try get India to help in that

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## Nabil365

Nilgiri said:


> Yah all irrelevant sort of things I bet...and probably the only exposure BAF gets to some non-rusted hardware. No one is doing major joint tactics training with BAF, because no one cares. If they are show me the link or a video (say something on the level of Anatolian Eagle)...all I see recently is some USAF-BAF exercise with parachute drops from a C-130. Does BAF even send its aircraft overseas to take part in anything? Does it get any invitation to anything that actually matters?
> 
> 
> 
> The only one sided slaughter that has happened in South Asia in recent times was in 1971...with your lot often saying 3 million of you got butchered by your beloved PA. Maybe we should have let that go on for a few more years so that fewer ungrateful dummies like you would exist (either sanitised by PA or the even greater eventual backlash from Bengalis).
> 
> Its good to see AL is hanging you islamist fanatic PA-loving war traitor types frequently. No wonder you are hiding in Canada.
> 
> This is the best sort of video your Airforce can put out of its "exercises":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now compare to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and it is no surprise you have soiled your lungi
> 
> It is actually quite demeaning to compare even just one wing of our AF to your entire 4th rate banana republic AF.
> 
> I mean BAF cannot do any kind of significant major strategic maneuver training without running out of airspace. Maybe you should try get India to help in that


If Bangladesh gets attacked by india,Pakistan will try to get thier revenge.Same with Nepal and China is just waiting...for an excuse to take over india.You indians are screwd:rolf:


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## Nilgiri

Nabil365 said:


> If Bangladesh gets attacked by india,Pakistan will try to get thier revenge.



try is the operative word....and that too is a big maybe. They have no big love for you "traitors". 



Nabil365 said:


> Same with Nepal and China is just waiting



Nepal has an airforce? You do realise their top general is also the honorary top general of Indian army and vice versa?

And China? Yes just like China helped Pakistan in 1971 I suppose ....not to mention Kargil. You really think either of them (Pak/China) are going to risk a nuclear war over swampy overpopulated Bong-land?

No one is coming to your aid in any such war....so don't start anything and follow the high level orders we give you....BAL or BNP....otherwise we will blitzkrieg you within a day or two if you decide to make relations that bad or try start a conflict....and the result will make PA performance in East Bengal seem quite good in comparison.

Stay in our good books and you have nothing to worry about in the first place....we do not even need to go into such war scenarios and projections.

You are better off comparing yourselves to Myanmar Air Force....instead of making stupid assertions like "1 squadron of hypothetical Su-30s is enough to handle Indian Air Force".

You do realise that such a Su-30 purchase has to be vetted by India in the first place? Or Russia will simply tell you to sod off if we say no.

Thats the level of respect and importance of BAF in world geopolitics.

Now let this thread get back to posting pictures of the few planes you have in flying condition and hypothetical acquisition plans of less than what 1 wing of Indian AF has already committed to.

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## asad71

*The reality:*

http://nationalinter...ce-13892?page=2




*

As other nations around the region are expanding their capabilities in the air, New Delhi seems to be slipping.*



Shashank Joshi


By my calculation [4], about 79% of India's combat aircraft squadrons and 96% of its main battle tanks are of Soviet-design, a legacy of New Delhi's close relationship with Moscow in the 1970s and 1980s. A country's defense choices can define the shape of its armed forces for decades to come. This is an important lesson for Indian leaders to heed as they consider the future of the Indian Air Force (IAF), a service that set out a highly ambitious doctrine [5] in 2012, but appears to be shrinking ineluctably year by year. What is especially troubling is that problems are visible across the low, medium, and high end of the IAF combat fleet.



At the high end is the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), part of Russia's PAK-FA program (pictured) whose first prototype flew in 2010 and has been in testing since. India is notionally co-developing the aircraft, with some suggestions [6]it's willing to invest tens of billions of dollars into the project. In practice, India's role has grown increasingly limited to particular areas [7] of the aircraft like tires and radar coolant.



In recent years, there have been growing signs of discontent [8] in India: “the Russians treat Indians like they are children and the IAF officials with the gold braid on their caps are used to being treated with excessive deference and the Russians do not do that.” Others were concerned about turning the IAF into an all-Russian fleet for another generation, the risks of betting heavily on an unproven platform, and more specific doubts [9] over the aircraft's engines, stealth features, weapons carriage, radar, and safety. Unsurprisingly, then, in September 2014, the IAF reportedly slashed its prospective orders from 10 squadrons (around 220 aircraft) to 6-7 (126- 147 aircraft) and then, in August 2015 [10], to just three (63 aircraft) – in total, a 70% drop in numbers for what is supposed to be the stealthy apex of Indian air power in the 2030s and beyond.



Things are looking just as confusing at the middle end of the spectrum. India had planned to buy 126 French Rafale aircraft as part of its long-running tender for Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender. But that deal dramatically changed shape in April 2015, when Indian Prime Minister Modi – reportedly cutting out Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar – agreed a deal to buy just 36 Rafale in flyaway condition, cancelling [11]the overall tender in July.

That raised two big questions. First, would even this rump deal survive? There have been numerous reports [12]that the two sides are stuck on the price and other issues [13], while Paris' hand has been strengthened by agreements to sell the Rafale to Egypt [14]and Qatar [15]. Second, what happens to other 90 aircraft that were part of the original deal: will India just settle for fewer jets, or make up the difference somewhere else?



Sweden has offered [16]the lighter and cheaper Gripen, which was part of the original MMRCA competition, while Parrikar has even suggested, intriguingly, that “some of it can be replaced by even proper stockpiling of missiles.” Two scholars at India's Observer Research Foundation (ORF) have recently written a report [17]on India's indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), but this project is probably a good quarter century away from completion and of little relevance to the medium-term problem.



Finally, trouble is afoot at the lower end too. India spent decades developing its indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), later named the Tejas, as a replacement for its large but ageing and accident-prone fleet of MiG-21s. Two squadrons of the Tejas are scheduled [18]to arrive before 2020, and four squadrons of a higher-end Tejas Mark II in the mid 2020s. But IAF officers widely express skepticism, even scorn [19], at the quality of the Mark I, and the Mark II is increasingly delayed [20]and will struggle to live up to the promise. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which developed the Tejas, has tried to push [21] a slightly improved Mark IA variant onto the IAF, and even suggested that this could obviate the need for the Mark II altogether, but this seems unlikely to be met with enthusiasm by those who actually have to fly the aircraft in combat.



Put these three issues together, and the scale of the problem becomes apparent. The IAF presently operates around 37 combat squadrons, expected to fall to 32 [22]to 35 (estimates vary) by the end of the year. Its 'sanctioned strength [23]' was supposed to be 42 combat squadrons by 2022. On present trends, this looks to me to be entirely unattainable. MiG-21s are retiring quicker than other aircraft are coming in. Even if the 90-aircraft 'Rafale gap' is filled, I struggle to see how India gets above the mid-30s in squadron numbers by 2020. And after that point, India will start losing its dedicated ground attack aircraft (5 MiG-27 [24] and 7 Jaguar [25]squadrons). The IAF has shown little interest in procuring dedicated replacements for the strike role, suggesting that multi-role aircraft like the Su-30MKI and Rafale will have to take up the slack – underscoring the problem of numbers.



In his 2011 report on the MMRCA deal, Dogfight [26], American analyst Ashley Tellis suggested that, “in terms of raw numbers alone, the IAF must plan on confronting by 2020 as many as 1,500 fourth-generation Pakistani and Chinese fighters.” Even if we generously assume that India can stay at 37 squadrons around that date, that would still be around half of that number of aircraft. Chinese participation in an India-Pakistan war is not necessarily likely, but India would be negligent not to consider the possibility and allocate air defense assets accordingly. And as academic Walter Ladwig explored in an excellent paper [27] earlier this year, India's superiority over Pakistan in modern aircraft has fallen from 4:1 in the early 2000s to less than 2.5:1 today. That ratio is likely to fall further.



Numbers aren't everything [28] in air combat, but they certainly matter. Consideration of the air balance could, for instance, shape Indian decisions over the feasibility and effectiveness of punitive air strikes on Pakistan in response to a major terrorist attack. Another long-term implication could be that India has less 'surplus' air power for power projection in the Indian Ocean region, especially during periods of heightened tension on its land borders.

In recent years, India's military modernization has been portrayed as massive, comprehensive, and unstoppable. But much of this has been about replacement of obsolete platforms rather than numerical growth, and the growing cost of a smaller number of key platforms – particularly combat aircraft – means that even massive spending can produce limited results. Barring a major crisis that prompts India to reverse the steady 25-year slide in the percentage of GDP it spends on defense (now at an all-time low of 2.4%), New Delhi will have to choose to make sacrifices elsewhere if it is serious about plugging the gaps in the IAF. The Army, which continues to consume over half of the defense budget, would be a reasonable place to start.


----------



## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> *The reality:*
> 
> http://nationalinter...ce-13892?page=2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> As other nations around the region are expanding their capabilities in the air, New Delhi seems to be slipping.*
> 
> 
> 
> Shashank Joshi
> 
> 
> By my calculation [4], about 79% of India's combat aircraft squadrons and 96% of its main battle tanks are of Soviet-design, a legacy of New Delhi's close relationship with Moscow in the 1970s and 1980s. A country's defense choices can define the shape of its armed forces for decades to come. This is an important lesson for Indian leaders to heed as they consider the future of the Indian Air Force (IAF), a service that set out a highly ambitious doctrine [5] in 2012, but appears to be shrinking ineluctably year by year. What is especially troubling is that problems are visible across the low, medium, and high end of the IAF combat fleet.
> 
> 
> 
> At the high end is the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), part of Russia's PAK-FA program (pictured) whose first prototype flew in 2010 and has been in testing since. India is notionally co-developing the aircraft, with some suggestions [6]it's willing to invest tens of billions of dollars into the project. In practice, India's role has grown increasingly limited to particular areas [7] of the aircraft like tires and radar coolant.
> 
> 
> 
> In recent years, there have been growing signs of discontent [8] in India: “the Russians treat Indians like they are children and the IAF officials with the gold braid on their caps are used to being treated with excessive deference and the Russians do not do that.” Others were concerned about turning the IAF into an all-Russian fleet for another generation, the risks of betting heavily on an unproven platform, and more specific doubts [9] over the aircraft's engines, stealth features, weapons carriage, radar, and safety. Unsurprisingly, then, in September 2014, the IAF reportedly slashed its prospective orders from 10 squadrons (around 220 aircraft) to 6-7 (126- 147 aircraft) and then, in August 2015 [10], to just three (63 aircraft) – in total, a 70% drop in numbers for what is supposed to be the stealthy apex of Indian air power in the 2030s and beyond.
> 
> 
> 
> Things are looking just as confusing at the middle end of the spectrum. India had planned to buy 126 French Rafale aircraft as part of its long-running tender for Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender. But that deal dramatically changed shape in April 2015, when Indian Prime Minister Modi – reportedly cutting out Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar – agreed a deal to buy just 36 Rafale in flyaway condition, cancelling [11]the overall tender in July.
> 
> That raised two big questions. First, would even this rump deal survive? There have been numerous reports [12]that the two sides are stuck on the price and other issues [13], while Paris' hand has been strengthened by agreements to sell the Rafale to Egypt [14]and Qatar [15]. Second, what happens to other 90 aircraft that were part of the original deal: will India just settle for fewer jets, or make up the difference somewhere else?
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden has offered [16]the lighter and cheaper Gripen, which was part of the original MMRCA competition, while Parrikar has even suggested, intriguingly, that “some of it can be replaced by even proper stockpiling of missiles.” Two scholars at India's Observer Research Foundation (ORF) have recently written a report [17]on India's indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), but this project is probably a good quarter century away from completion and of little relevance to the medium-term problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, trouble is afoot at the lower end too. India spent decades developing its indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), later named the Tejas, as a replacement for its large but ageing and accident-prone fleet of MiG-21s. Two squadrons of the Tejas are scheduled [18]to arrive before 2020, and four squadrons of a higher-end Tejas Mark II in the mid 2020s. But IAF officers widely express skepticism, even scorn [19], at the quality of the Mark I, and the Mark II is increasingly delayed [20]and will struggle to live up to the promise. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which developed the Tejas, has tried to push [21] a slightly improved Mark IA variant onto the IAF, and even suggested that this could obviate the need for the Mark II altogether, but this seems unlikely to be met with enthusiasm by those who actually have to fly the aircraft in combat.
> 
> 
> 
> Put these three issues together, and the scale of the problem becomes apparent. The IAF presently operates around 37 combat squadrons, expected to fall to 32 [22]to 35 (estimates vary) by the end of the year. Its 'sanctioned strength [23]' was supposed to be 42 combat squadrons by 2022. On present trends, this looks to me to be entirely unattainable. MiG-21s are retiring quicker than other aircraft are coming in. Even if the 90-aircraft 'Rafale gap' is filled, I struggle to see how India gets above the mid-30s in squadron numbers by 2020. And after that point, India will start losing its dedicated ground attack aircraft (5 MiG-27 [24] and 7 Jaguar [25]squadrons). The IAF has shown little interest in procuring dedicated replacements for the strike role, suggesting that multi-role aircraft like the Su-30MKI and Rafale will have to take up the slack – underscoring the problem of numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> In his 2011 report on the MMRCA deal, Dogfight [26], American analyst Ashley Tellis suggested that, “in terms of raw numbers alone, the IAF must plan on confronting by 2020 as many as 1,500 fourth-generation Pakistani and Chinese fighters.” Even if we generously assume that India can stay at 37 squadrons around that date, that would still be around half of that number of aircraft. Chinese participation in an India-Pakistan war is not necessarily likely, but India would be negligent not to consider the possibility and allocate air defense assets accordingly. And as academic Walter Ladwig explored in an excellent paper [27] earlier this year, India's superiority over Pakistan in modern aircraft has fallen from 4:1 in the early 2000s to less than 2.5:1 today. That ratio is likely to fall further.
> 
> 
> 
> Numbers aren't everything [28] in air combat, but they certainly matter. Consideration of the air balance could, for instance, shape Indian decisions over the feasibility and effectiveness of punitive air strikes on Pakistan in response to a major terrorist attack. Another long-term implication could be that India has less 'surplus' air power for power projection in the Indian Ocean region, especially during periods of heightened tension on its land borders.
> 
> In recent years, India's military modernization has been portrayed as massive, comprehensive, and unstoppable. But much of this has been about replacement of obsolete platforms rather than numerical growth, and the growing cost of a smaller number of key platforms – particularly combat aircraft – means that even massive spending can produce limited results. Barring a major crisis that prompts India to reverse the steady 25-year slide in the percentage of GDP it spends on defense (now at an all-time low of 2.4%), New Delhi will have to choose to make sacrifices elsewhere if it is serious about plugging the gaps in the IAF. The Army, which continues to consume over half of the defense budget, would be a reasonable place to start.



Yet still magnitudes higher in power than your "1 squadron" airforce

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## Nabil365

Nilgiri said:


> try is the operative word....and that too is a big maybe. They have no big love for you "traitors".
> 
> 
> 
> Nepal has an airforce? You do realise their top general is also the honorary top general of Indian army and vice versa?
> 
> And China? Yes just like China helped Pakistan in 1971 I suppose ....not to mention Kargil. You really think either of them (Pak/China) are going to risk a nuclear war over swampy overpopulated Bong-land?
> 
> No one is coming to your aid in any such war....so don't start anything and follow the high level orders we give you....BAL or BNP....otherwise we will blitzkrieg you within a day or two if you decide to make relations that bad or try start a conflict....and the result will make PA performance in East Bengal seem quite good in comparison.
> 
> Stay in our good books and you have nothing to worry about in the first place....we do not even need to go into such war scenarios and projections.
> 
> You are better off comparing yourselves to Myanmar Air Force....instead of making stupid assertions like "1 squadron of hypothetical Su-30s is enough to handle Indian Air Force".
> 
> You do realise that such a Su-30 purchase has to be vetted by India in the first place? Or Russia will simply tell you to sod off if we say no.
> 
> Thats the level of respect and importance of BAF in world geopolitics.
> 
> Now let this thread get back to posting pictures of the few planes you have in flying condition and hypothetical acquisition plans of less than what 1 wing of Indian AF has already committed to.


China will not gain anything by fighting for Bangladesh.But they will get a country called randhia if they fight with us...:rolf:


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## cloud_digger

asad71 said:


> IAF is bakwas. In '65 War just one squadron of F-104s kept IAF away from entering into interior of Pakistan Most dogfights were over India or on the border. One Squadron of this lethal eqpt is just fine to start wetting Indian dhotis. More will follow obviously. In the air force it is always the quality of eqot and pilots that matter-- areas where Dhoti Air Force will never advance into.



Hahhaa, and this is a professional? I must say, these days anyone can become a TT or a professional. All i asked was how 12 aircraft would take on hundreds of aircraft and all this "professional " can come up with is dhotis and some bullshit about quality. They maintain 37f7 and 8 mig 29.....8 of them and they think 12 (btw 12 is not even the squadron strength of any self respecting airforce) will take on Indian airforce.


Wait wait!! I get it. This is the joke section of PDF. Now I understand. 

Carry on people, started Friday morning with a hearty laugh

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## Nabil365

cloud_digger said:


> Hahhaa, and this is a professional? I must say, these days anyone can become a TT or a professional. All i asked was how 12 aircraft would take on hundreds of aircraft and all this "professional " can come up with is dhotis and some bullshit about quality. They maintain 37f7 and 8 mig 29.....8 of them and they think 12 (btw 12 is not even the squadron strength of any self respecting airforce) will take on Indian airforce.
> 
> 
> Wait wait!! I get it. This is the joke section of PDF. Now I understand.
> 
> Carry on people, started Friday morning with a hearty laugh


As everyone says laughter is the best medicine.Laugh as much as you want

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## Nabil365

Nilgiri said:


> Yes I am sure seeing the state of the swamp living in your country (the fact they found hundreds of Bangladeshis in a mass grave in Malaysia earlier in the year) ....that you want to bring the rest of the world down to your level by some dream of a nuclear holocaust.
> 
> Aint happening, no one is going to fight a war for you on your behalf and get their population centers destroyed utterly as a result. You are literally pond scum in geopolitics. China may help Pakistan (and even thats a big stretch)....but you they will leave in the gutter as we squelch on you. Bangladesh means nothing to anyone really other than a source for cheap clothes and a big nest of annoying illegal immigrants.
> 
> @Rain Man and @gslv mk3 can tell you just how bad it is really.


Dhotis try to get sympathy....
No one in the region currently likes themhaha


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## masud

@Nabil365 just a friendly advice bro, ignor INDIAN MEMBERS TROOL- DON,T ANS THEM.


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## bigbossman

First f-7BG overhauled in Bangladesh






BAF Mig-29 Pilot interview

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## Nabil365

masud said:


> @Nabil365 just a friendly advice bro, ignor INDIAN MEMBERS TROOL- DON,T ANS THEM.


Ok brother

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## masud

bigbossman said:


> First f-7BG overhauled in Bangladesh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAF Mig-29 Pilot interview



after watching this video (5.55) i found that those overhaul mig is no near to smt lavel, it still use the same cockpit layout...........and that sucks. 
old mig-29 cockpit
.





overhaul mig-29 smt cockpit.






AT THE END THE BOTTOM LINE *" WE NEED MORE NEW CAPABLE FIGHTER"............*


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## Nabil365

masud said:


> after watching this video (5.55) i found that those overhaul mig is no near to smt lavel, it still use the same cockpit layout...........and that sucks.
> old mig-29 cockpit
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> overhaul mig-29 smt cockpit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AT THE END THE BOTTOM LINE *" WE NEED MORE NEW CAPABLE FIGHTER"............*


More....


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## BDforever

masud said:


> after watching this video (5.55) i found that those overhaul mig is no near to smt lavel, it still use the same cockpit layout...........and that sucks.
> old mig-29 cockpit
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> overhaul mig-29 smt cockpit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AT THE END THE BOTTOM LINE *" WE NEED MORE NEW CAPABLE FIGHTER"............*


overhaul and upgrades are two different things lol


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## masud

BDforever said:


> overhaul and upgrades are two different things lol


YES it,s different..............now to the point.
everyone saying that our mig is going to upgrad SMT LAVEL. so for overhaul we sent all our mig to ukrain but it,s only overhaul , it does not encrass any kind of advantages or updated avonicks. it raises some question?
1) how can we upgrad our mig to smt lavel (what is uses russien avionics) not ukriean?
2) is it not wise to send them directly russia to upgrad smt lavel? by upgrading all thinks we can also overhaul this mig at same time with less money expending.
someone is really blaffing about mig-29 upgrading.

this is how mig -29 smt upgrad......................

Airframe change: (YOU DON,T NEED TO OVERHAUL SAPERATLY)
A few changes took place during the aircraft's development. The redesigned airframe was constructed from a lightweight Aluminium-lithium alloy to increase thrust-to-weight ratio. Airintake ramps' geometry was revised, the upper intake louvers removed to make way for more fuel in the LERXs, mesh screens introduced to prevent foreign object damage (FOD) and enlarged inlet dimensions for higher airflow.
russien SMT;





OVERHAUL MIG-29 OF BAF................


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## Nilgiri

Nabil365 said:


> Dhotis try to get sympathy....
> No one in the region currently likes themhaha



Better to be feared than liked.

This whole thing started because @asad71 was all "1 squadron of Su-30s can match the whole Indian Airforce".....whats funny is seeing you lot jump in to try defend that stupid idiot trolling.

If no one brings in India in such a ridiculous way, no need for us to lay down the reality to you in such an insulting manner.

Like I said from the start, stick to matching Myanmar Airforce first....before dreaming on taking on even 1 wing of IAF.

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## asad71

1.Why are idiotic Dhotis allowed in this forum? One squadron of SU-35 (not SU-30) to start modernizing and phasing out our existing fleet of Mig-29s and FBG-7s is a project well within our reach. But we need to wait till the India planted govt is uprooted. We could then balance our inventory with those of our real friends - Turkey, S Arabia, UAE, Pakistan, Indonesia a and Malaysia.
2. In the event of a general Indo-BD war , and never mind which govt is in power at Dhaka, China, Pakistan, Turkey, the Arabs, Malaysia and Indonesia will not just sit idle sucking thumb.

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## Tipu7

asad71 said:


> 1.Why are idiotic Dhotis allowed in this forum? One squadron of SU-35 (not SU-30) to start modernizing and phasing out our existing fleet of Mig-29s and FBG-7s is a project well within our reach. But we need to wait till the India planted govt is uprooted. We could then balance our inventory with those of our real friends - Turkey, S Arabia, UAE, Pakistan, Indonesia a and Malaysia.
> 2. In the event of a general Indo-BD war , and never mind which govt is in power at Dhaka, China, Pakistan, Turkey, the Arabs, Malaysia and Indonesia will not just sit idle sucking thumb.



Will BD look forward to replace existing fleet of FBG7 with JFT Blk2.......? Is it possible in your opinion?
& why not J10b from China??? Or Mig35 instead of Su35.......???


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## asad71

Tipu7 said:


> Will BD look forward to replace existing fleet of FBG7 with JFT Blk2.......? Is it possible in your opinion?
> & why not J10b from China??? Or Mig35 instead of Su35.......???



1.Any rikshawalla in Dhaka street realizes that with Hindu India ever advancing to gobble us up, it would make sense to have joint defense with Pakistan. Gen Hamid Gul used to say, if BD deployed it's eleven Divs against India then IA's backside would be bare for PA's whipping.
2. Turkey, Jordan, S Arabia, UAE, BD, Malaysia and Indonesia would gain immensely by joint production and by maintaining common inventory.
3. We need to wait for a patriotic force to emerge to wipe out the RAW vermin from our soil. We will then have meaningful and strong defense relations.


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## bongbang

asad71 said:


> 1.Any rikshawalla in Dhaka street realizes that with Hindu India ever advancing to gobble us up, it would make sense to have joint defense with Pakistan. Gen Hamid Gul used to say, if BD deployed it's eleven Divs against India then IA's backside would be bare for PA's whipping.



He is a rickshawala so he must be thinking these dumb thoughts. Can be clearly seen its his strategy of Pakistan to keep busy IA back by BD. We dont have anything to gain from this. It makes sense for us to make better integration with US, China to tackle bigger power like India. Also from East side Indonesia, Korea, Japan. We must be in delusion and making repetitive false moves from start. Whenever we opened our door to Pak destruction followed us. If we try to go for our own strategic gain they will handsomely play their own game of hegemony. Lets not make mistakes.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> One squadron of SU-35 (not SU-30) to start modernizing and phasing out our existing fleet of Mig-29s and FBG-7s is a project well within our reach.



Its within your reach sure. Just don't expect it to win you some war with India....which is how you started this whole ruckus in the first place. Choose your words better if you dont want your AF to be humiliated.



asad71 said:


> . In the event of a general Indo-BD war , and never mind which govt is in power at Dhaka, China, Pakistan, Turkey, the Arabs, Malaysia and Indonesia will not just sit idle sucking thumb.





Indian blitzkrieg will be so fast they will have no time to react. Bangladesh has no strategic depth whatsover, it would be a massacre (of its armed forces) but at least not a genocide (like P.A in 71). Stay in India's good books and keep your butt-hurt to yourself.

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## jahidus2005

Nilgiri said:


> Its within your reach sure. Just don't expect it to win you some war with India....which is how you started this whole ruckus in the first place. Choose your words better if you dont want your AF to be humiliated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian blitzkrieg will be so fast they will have no time to react. Bangladesh has no strategic depth whatsover, it would be a massacre (of its armed forces) but at least not a genocide (like P.A in 71). Stay in India's good books and keep your butt-hurt to yourself.




that day it will be first day of invasion of india , don't ever thinking about fighting BD army cz in few years it will have to be only in land war fight bcz of more modern air defense system around the world lyk s400 nd s500 will give no chance for any aircraft to fly over bangladesh , bangladesh already starting to buy advance air defense system and upgrading , so any country trying to invade any country in future will be hard by aircraft cz of lyk s400 and s500 , and also by that time most of the countries will deploy those advance air defense system , so no country would take a risk for their aircraft being shoot down , in that case who have much larger army will play a big role to show up their strength , nd u know really well BD army is way more professional than indian army in the land bases and they showed that in 2001 fight , so just chill , BD not trying to goto war with anyone but don't stab on our back cz it wil be a huge mistake


----------



## TopCat

asad71 said:


> 1.Any rikshawalla in Dhaka street realizes that with Hindu India ever advancing to gobble us up, it would make sense to have joint defense with Pakistan. Gen Hamid Gul used to say, if BD deployed it's eleven Divs against India then IA's backside would be bare for PA's whipping.
> 2. Turkey, Jordan, S Arabia, UAE, BD, Malaysia and Indonesia would gain immensely by joint production and by maintaining common inventory.
> 3. We need to wait for a patriotic force to emerge to wipe out the RAW vermin from our soil. We will then have meaningful and strong defense relations.




I want all our land route to India to open and NE insurgency to stop. Then we can go and see the snows in Arunachal Pradesh or to Bhutan and can take my bike with me.... Chill dude and smell some flower. Its time everybody should start giving a fck about the border... all over the world.

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## Nilgiri

jahidus2005 said:


> that day it will be first day of invasion of india , don't ever thinking about fighting BD army cz in few years it will have to be only in land war fight bcz of more modern air defense system around the world lyk s400 nd s500 will give no chance for any aircraft to fly over bangladesh , bangladesh already starting to buy advance air defense system and upgrading , so any country trying to invade any country in future will be hard by aircraft cz of lyk s400 and s500 , and also by that time most of the countries will deploy those advance air defense system , so no country would take a risk for their aircraft being shoot down , in that case who have much larger army will play a big role to show up their strength , nd u know really well BD army is way more professional than indian army in the land bases and they showed that in 2001 fight , so just chill , BD not trying to goto war with anyone but don't stab on our back cz it wil be a huge mistake



Yeah don't feel like investing the time to try understand what you are trying to say. Try one or two well typed sentences next time. Thanks.


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## asad71

Nilgiri said:


> Its within your reach sure. Just don't expect it to win you some war with India....which is how you started this whole ruckus in the first place. Choose your words better if you dont want your AF to be humiliated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian blitzkrieg will be so fast they will have no time to react. Bangladesh has no strategic depth whatsover, it would be a massacre (of its armed forces) but at least not a genocide (like P.A in 71). Stay in India's good books and keep your butt-hurt to yourself.




1. Blitzkrig by the lazy, lethargic, confused, messy , undisciplined massive IA ? I can hear Guderian laughing loud in his grave.
2. India with its multiple insurgencies, third rate military, an air force more famous for killing its pilots and a navy whose officers are more interested in wife swapping, and a Defense Minister whose hobby is playing pocket billiard during an honor guard, is no match for us.


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## bongbang



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## Nilgiri

bongbang said:


>



Not bad not bad.

Finally some watcheable videos of BAF.

Love the differential thrust steering going on at 13.40

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## bdslph

bongbang said:


>



the cockpit is 1980s we need to bring all the mig29 to SMT level ASAP


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## Barmaley

Another new Yak-130.

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## bongbang



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## Nilgiri

bongbang said:


>



The SAR helicopter could use a better colour scheme.

But nice video!

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## Avisheik

Nilgiri said:


> The SAR helicopter could use a better colour scheme.
> 
> But nice video!



I guess the colour scheme is to show that it is a non-combatant. Still better than our mig 29 colour scheme though.

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## BDforever



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## Nilgiri

BDforever said:


>



Name of song+band?


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## BDforever

Nilgiri said:


> Name of song+band?


one of leading Bangladeshi Band

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## Nilgiri

BDforever said:


> one of leading Bangladeshi Band



Thanks I've heard it before...just name escaped my mind

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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force K-8






Bangladesh Air Force c-130






Bangladesh Air Force AW-139





Bangladesh Air Force Yak-130






Bangladesh Air Force Bell-212

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## Nilgiri

bigbossman said:


> Bangladesh Air Force Mig-29



The oddest looking Mig -29 I've ever seen


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## barbarosa

ask before your masters india.


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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force FT-7BGI

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## T-55

Bangladesh Air Force have commissioned the first six Yak-130

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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## bongbang

Bhai pic attachment upload dia dia ei webmaster re dashasi den. Really love your work.

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## masud

bongbang said:


> Bhai pic attachment upload dia dia ei webmaster re dashasi den. Really love your work.


but i am seeing that you don,t press the thank,s rating option.......................

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## masud



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## masud



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## monitor

Bangladesh Air Force's newly added three advanced Yak-130 AJT/CAS jets has fly pasted in victory day parade, National Parade Ground, Tejgaon, Dhaka.
.
Photo © Kashif Kawnain
#YAK130 #BAF #NPG
Shared by: Bangladesh Defence

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## Nilgiri

Great pictures @masud et al. Keep them coming!


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## BDforever

Nilgiri said:


> Great pictures @masud et al. Keep them coming!


you are back ! ! welcome back

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## masud

More yak-130 is comming soon...................

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## masud



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## masud



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## masud



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## masud

SIX DELIVERED YAK -130...................

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## masud



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## asad71

But what is next? Various reports suggest BAF will acquire Su- 30 which will still keep us behind the IAF. This will be a new a line of aircraft for our pilots and technicians. Double cockpit means twice as many pilots. And in case of war where do we run for spares, replenishment, etc? We have only one lone "ally (?)" And that ally happens to be the top most potential threat to our sovereignty.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> But what is next? Various reports suggest BAF will acquire Su- 30 which will still keep us behind the IAF. This will be a new a line of aircraft for our pilots and technicians. Double cockpit means twice as many pilots. And in case of war where do we run for spares, replenishment, etc? We have only one lone "ally (?)" And that ally happens to be the top most potential threat to our sovereignty.



We will tell you what to think, what to do and what to feel....and you will see this reflected in all major acquisitions by Bangladesh. Hasina will get it all vetted by India and RAW.

I suggest learning to enjoy being butthurt.


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## masud

it is possible that only 6 more yak-130 is comming for baf in mid of 2016. privious contact for total 16 yak-130 is reduce to 12 unit............


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## Nilgiri

masud said:


> it is possible that only 6 more yak-130 is comming for baf in mid of 2016. privious contact for total 16 yak-130 is reduce to 12 unit.



Why is that?


----------



## masud

Nilgiri said:


> Why is that?


don,t know, but probable money problem as usual...........

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## Nabil365

masud said:


> don,t know, but probable money problem as usual...........


You sure it is reduced?


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## masud

Nabil365 said:


> You sure it is reduced?


since i am not the officeal person i can only wrote what i know. nothing SURE......

Bangladesh ordered 24 Russian Yak-130 light fighter jets worth $800 million in the final quarter of 2013, NEXT reduce to 16 Yak-130 but recent convartation indicate (6 Mi-35 attack helicopters and 3 Mi-171sh +12 yak-130 fitted with English-language cockpits)

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## mb444

Reducing the no of yak is not a bad thing..... It's a trainer.... It has not added any offensive capability to BAF. In absence of any concrete attempt at getting any new fighters there was no point in getting this many trainers..... 6 is probably enough.... Money should be diverted elsewhere.... But in all likelihood is being diverted into BAL scums pockets



asad71 said:


> But what is next? Various reports suggest BAF will acquire Su- 30 which will still keep us behind the IAF. This will be a new a line of aircraft for our pilots and technicians. Double cockpit means twice as many pilots. And in case of war where do we run for spares, replenishment, etc? We have only one lone "ally (?)" And that ally happens to be the top most potential threat to our sovereignty.




From what I hear it's more Migs..... You are correct in your assessment via-a-vis BAL holding us back. Their dependence on India for survival against the democratic aspiration of BD is understandable. However to be fair BNP allowed all of the armed forces to decay in their watch. It's a shame BD political classes anti-military position although I suppose the military caused such views through their own action.

Our internal issues are damaging our security capabilities.


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## Nabil365

mb444 said:


> Reducing the no of yak is not a bad thing..... It's a trainer.... It has not added any offensive capability to BAF. In absence of any concrete attempt at getting any new fighters there was no point in getting this many trainers..... 6 is probably enough.... Money should be diverted elsewhere.... But in all likelihood is being diverted into BAL scums pockets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I hear it's more Migs..... You are correct in your assessment via-a-vis BAL holding us back. Their dependence on India for survival against the democratic aspiration of BD is understandable. However to be fair BNP allowed all of the armed forces to decay in their watch. It's a shame BD political classes anti-military position although I suppose the military caused such views through their own action.
> 
> Our internal issues are damaging our security capabilities.


Stupid Khaleda did not provide the military with any new weapons or equipments and even canceled some contracts....
Now she wants the military to rise and side her!

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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force Yak-130






Bangladesh Air Force F-7





Bangladesh Air Force Mi-171sh





Bangladesh Air Force Pilot Rescue Exercise





Bangladesh Air Force F-7 





Bangladesh Air Force SAR Exercise

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## Nilgiri

In honour of the Yak-130:








@BDforever

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## masud

Gyes we are getting more then 12 unit of yak-130. it seems i was wrong about total unit number of yak-130. now i hope we are getting 16 unit............

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## bdslph

masud said:


> it is possible that only 6 more yak-130 is comming for baf in mid of 2016. privious contact for total 16 yak-130 is reduce to 12 unit............



some are saying 11 is here in bd some 16 we will know later how many is here already and how many more we will have 2016


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## Barmaley

bdslph said:


> some are saying 11 is here in bd



There should be 14 of Yak-130 in BD already.
Another 2 will be delivered in early 2016.

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## bdslph

Barmaley said:


> There should be 14 of Yak-130 in BD already.
> Another 2 will be delivered in early 2016.



do you think more will be ordered


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## Force Awakens

I am unable to find any sources which says that BD has received the 2nd batch of 5 Yak-130s from Russia.Can someone give me a source?No fb sources.
Also has Bangladesh AF retired it's 11 T-37B trainers?


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## Barmaley

bdslph said:


> do you think more will be ordered



I don't know, but i thinks BDAF need more of new jets. As for Yak - 130, no less then 24 jets.


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## masud

Force Awakens said:


> I am unable to find any sources which says that BD has received the 2nd batch of 5 Yak-130s from Russia.Can someone give me a source?No fb sources.
> Also has Bangladesh AF retired it's 11 T-37B trainers?


i this matter i even don,t have any facebook source, which say that 2nd batch delivered...... an i am not agree with this statement.


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## Force Awakens

masud said:


> i this matter i even i don,t have facebook source, which say that 2nd batch delivered...... an i am not agree with this statement.


Ok.Thanks.
What about the T-37Bs though?


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## masud

Force Awakens said:


> Ok.Thanks.
> What about the T-37Bs though?


probable ritired, don,t know.

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## Bilal9

Sheikh Hasina cutting cake inaugurating induction of Yakovlev Yak -130 trainer and SAR Helicopter Agusta AW139 fleets in the Air Force.


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## Irfan Baloch

BD F-7 making a staffing run.

up close and on target

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## bigbossman

BANGLADESH AIR FORCE DOCUMENTARY

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## bongbang




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## chisty_chowdhury

bongbang said:


>


Can any one explain why there are 2 Dassault Rafale shown at 0:41 in this video?


----------



## BDforever

Thundercats from Squadron-35 are preparing for departure to guard the sky of Mother Bangladesh.
.Bangladesh Air Force's 2 × Interceptor Fighter jets F-7BG1 are taxiing toward Runway-14 for a routine flight sortie from Bangabandhu Air Base in Kurmitola, Dhaka. 

F 7BG1 uses KLJ-6F radar which is a Chinese version of Israeli EL/M-2032 radar, can track 9 targets simultaneously. 
Other standard avionics and equipments includes:
* Distance Measuring Equipment (DME)
* Heads Up Display (HUD)
* Helmet Mounted Display (HMD)
* Instrument Landing System (ILS) for Night Flight 
* Electronic Counter Measures (ECM)
* Internal Navigation System (INS)
* Multi Function Cockpit LCD Displays
* Stores management system
* Cockpit lighting
* Secure communications and radios
* Pulse Doppler Radar
* Tactical navigation aid (TACAN)
* Chaff flare dispenser
.
Photo © Shadman Al Samee
Information credit: Bangladesh Defence facebook page

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## Tipu7

BDforever said:


> Helmet Mounted Display (HMD)


Seriously? 

What is it's weapon package?


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## BDforever

Tipu7 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> What is it's weapon package?


not disclosed.


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## volatile

BAF we wish you best of luck for your future procurement .

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## Dazzler

Tipu7 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> What is it's weapon package?



Helmet mounted sight mated with pl-9c heat seekers. Similar to this..

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## syed1

BAF Yak 130 with rocket pods 





how do i print screen

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## ejaz007

syed1 said:


> BAF Yak 130 with rocket pods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do i print screen



Something is not right in this picture. Plane's position does not match background.


----------



## BDforever

ejaz007 said:


> Something is not right in this picture. Plane's position does not match background.


it because you are saying another runway in the background, it has already taken off from its run way which is below but camera frame could not capture it lol


----------



## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> it because you are saying another runway in the background, it has already taken off from its run way which is below but camera frame could not capture it lol



Actually the trainer is floating at idle before touchdown near the zebra marks at the North threshold of runway 14/32 (VGZR). Image has been captured with a long-range telephoto lens which has compressed the background with the trainer, as is the norm.

The Malaysia Airlines A330 (noted by the winglets visible) is waiting to enter this same runway to begin its takeoff run heading South/SouthEast.

There was work underway to add another runway but that may have been stalled for some reason. Fighter traffic and civilian traffic should not be sharing the same busy runway.

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## Michael Corleone

So? Any fighter orders placed? Due to be placed? I seriously am sick of this troll no. Of aircraft. Even Kuwait have over 32 jets being a tiny country.

Edit: 32 f/a-18


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## syed1

Last two Yak 130 has reached their home today. They'll be later assembled by Russian engineers. 




windows screen capture

Yak 130 taking off! 




free image host

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## masud



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## BDforever

syed1 said:


> Last two Yak 130 has reached their home today. They'll be later assembled by Russian engineers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> windows screen capture
> 
> Yak 130 taking off!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> free image host


so all 16 are home ?


----------



## Zabaniyah

Mohammed Khaled said:


> So? Any fighter orders placed? Due to be placed? I seriously am sick of this troll no. Of aircraft. Even Kuwait have over 32 jets being a tiny country.
> 
> Edit: 32 f/a-18



Likely MiG-35. I may be wrong though.

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## syed1

BDforever said:


> so all 16 are home ?




aye



Loki said:


> Likely MiG-35. I may be wrong though.





Mohammed Khaled said:


> So? Any fighter orders placed? Due to be placed? I seriously am sick of this troll no. Of aircraft. Even Kuwait have over 32 jets being a tiny country.
> 
> Edit: 32 f/a-18





Nothing is certain yet. It's better to wait rather than throwing stones at the pond with speculations.

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## Michael Corleone

syed1 said:


> aye
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing is certain yet. It's better to wait rather than throwing stones at the pond with speculations.


Agreed


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## Arthur



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## Michael Corleone

masud said:


> View attachment 311193


I hope they keep this color scheme for the next fighters too, THE AMOUNT OF TIME OUR AIRFORCES CHANGES Camo is pointless.


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## Arthur

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I hope they keep this color scheme for the next fighters too, THE AMOUNT OF TIME OUR AIRFORCES CHANGES Camo is pointless.


'Nai kaj, to khoi vaaz ' type situation arki.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrums with Chengdu F-7 Airguards





Chengdu F-7 Airguards





Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29s

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 315109
> 
> Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrums with Chengdu F-7 Airguards
> 
> View attachment 315115
> 
> Chengdu F-7 Airguards
> 
> View attachment 315117
> 
> Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29s
> 
> View attachment 315118
> 
> 
> View attachment 315119


Best Bangladeshi mug images ever. However I hate these third party websites adding watermarks spoiling the image.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Best Bangladeshi mug images ever. However I hate these third party websites adding watermarks spoiling the image.



Agreed,bro...I especially love the first and the second one though...More to come though...

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## Dazzler

The BAF Yak-130 camouflage looks similar to PAFs F-16s :O


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## masud

Dazzler said:


> The BAF Yak-130 camouflage looks similar to PAFs F-16s :O


it,s a common sky colour.
so does all the others world f-16 colour is. what,s the point?


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## Dazzler

masud said:


> it,s a common sky colour.
> so does all the others world f-16 colour is. what,s the point?



explain "common sky color" please. it is a theme, a pattern or a camouflage?

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## masud

Dazzler said:


> explain "common sky color" please. it is a theme, a pattern or a camouflage?


2 COLOUR COMBINATION.........PROBABLE THEME.


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## ~Phoenix~

*One of the best pictures of BAF MiG-29*

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## Michael Corleone

Dazzler said:


> The BAF Yak-130 camouflage looks similar to PAFs F-16s :O


Agree or not. This is the best camo for any aircraft. Even US and UK have similar shades. Although UK also got brown and green camo. Probably to camo along the ground

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Agree or not. This is the best camo for any aircraft. Even US and UK have similar shades. Although UK also got brown and green camo. Probably to camo along the ground


BTW,our F-7BGIs have a similar camo though..


----------



## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> BTW,our F-7BGIs have a similar camo though..


Lighter shades of grey isn't it?

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Lighter shades of grey isn't it?




Yeah,its much more lighter...and is kinda blue-ish..


----------



## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,its much more lighter...and is kinda blue-ish..
> View attachment 315538


Good though. Better than the mig and bg versions camo


----------



## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Good though. Better than the mig and bg versions camo


 Yeah..




* ⇧DAT BOOTY THO⇧*


----------



## Bilal9

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,its much more lighter...and is kinda blue-ish..
> View attachment 315538



The Chinese paint shades for F-7 BGI are not standard NATO Aircraft Grey shades which is to be expected.

The two main NATO Aircraft grey colors for F-16s are,

Light Aircraft Grey





and Dark Aircraft Grey











There is also a shade called Aggressor Grey below (in addition to the other lighter greys) which the US Navy's F-16's are painted in to simulate smaller MiGs from hostile nations.





As you can see the differences are rather subtle....

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## ~Phoenix~

Guys,any news of Sukhois or atleast any other new aircraft?







This is the Sukhoi birds of the Russian Knights....Wish we had such birds instead of those ancient F-7s


----------



## muhammadali233

~Phoenix~ said:


> Guys,any news of Sukhois or atleast any other new aircraft?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 315632
> 
> This is the Sukhoi birds of the Russian Knights....Wish we had such birds instead of those ancient F-7s


too expensive and too "unnecessary" for BAF.


----------



## ~Phoenix~

muhammadali233 said:


> too expensive and too "unnecessary" for BAF.




Why did u call it expensive? Our economy is doing better than yours,remember? And we CAN afford a few squadrons of 4th generation birds..

And why did you say "inappropiate"? Myanmar is extremely agressive towards us and they have 4 times more MiG-29s than us..Plus there is a big bully neighbour...

And I'd call the Pakistani F-16s as "inappropiate" because they first need more helicopters to fight taliban..No offence... 

Thanks...

_Harami,tui nijer ta dekh,pore kotha koish..._

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## Michael Corleone

muhammadali233 said:


> too expensive and too "unnecessary" for BAF.


Same can be said with Pakistan and f-16s when looking at their economy.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Same can be said with Pakistan and f-16s when looking at their economy.




Yeah,they can't even buy cheap helicopters to fight the taliban...


----------



## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> The Chinese paint shades for F-7 BGI are not standard NATO Aircraft Grey shades which is to be expected.
> 
> The two main NATO Aircraft grey colors for F-16s are,
> 
> Light Aircraft Grey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Dark Aircraft Grey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a shade called Aggressor Grey below (in addition to the other lighter greys) which the US Navy's F-16's are painted in to simulate smaller MiGs from hostile nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see the differences are rather subtle....


This post about grey reminds me of 50 shades of grey!

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> This post about grey reminds me of 50 shades of grey!


Haha....Same here...

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## muhammadali233

~Phoenix~ said:


> Why did u call it expensive? Our economy is doing better than yours,remember? And we CAN afford a few squadrons of 4th generation birds..


You took it straight to the heart didn't you?
as far as your economy is concerned yes you are right because BD isn't fighting war right now.Pakistan started receiving it's first more than average FDI this year because of 80% decline in Tango's after zarb e azb. Discussion was about BD not PAK however,if pak ever wanted something it surely got it e.g. Nukes,F-16's back in 1980's (keep that in mind it was the F-35 of 80's)AH-1's/8 aip subs for 6 billion$ and all the good stuff.As our economy took a hit because of floods/earthquakes and terrorism it was declining now as we are done with it,the graph shows positivity.
Moving on to BD ,SU-35 are 4++ most SU-30's are also 4+ a minimum of 80 million/aircraft when you buy from scratch.2nd hand SU-27 are old not good in BVR and too expensive to maintain(over 30K$/hr) Pakistan was offered but it later rejected for more f-16.


~Phoenix~ said:


> And why did you say "inappropiate"? Myanmar is extremely agressive towards us and they have 4 times more MiG-29s than us..Plus there is a big bully neighbour...


Never did i said "inappropriate",I want BD to have all the good stuff in the world but that isn't the point right?A fight with Burma can be considered but you won't be able to cope up with IAF no never.
Nonetheless BD milatary budget is 2 billion$ which won't be able to support expensive aircraft like Sukhois or Mig's 35/29M.
Burma is getting PAC JFT very soon,MIG-29M can be bought to counter that.


~Phoenix~ said:


> And I'd call the Pakistani F-16s as "inappropiate" because they first need more helicopters to fight taliban..No offence...


PAF newer F-16's are equipped with sniper pod's and db 110 recce pods which help targeting/observing thus are useful for precise delivering of gifts to talis from PAF. 
DB-100 and sniper can be seen in pics below.








Coming to heli's yes you are right,PAA needs more heli's and that is what they are doing.PAA is already operating 70+ Attack chopper AH-1's ,Z-10' ,fennecs,IAR 330s etc.As it is about to retire 50 AH-1s by 2017 it has placed orders for Ah-1z,Mi-35 possibly 2 other platform from these MI-28,T-129,Z-19 and Z-10 as they plan to operate 100+ dedicated attack chopper by 2020.So you shouldn't worry about that.


~Phoenix~ said:


> Thanks...


Anytime bruv.


~Phoenix~ said:


> _Harami,tui nijer ta dekh,pore kotha koish..._


I don't understand local language's please take some time to explain it to me.I can only translate the word "harami" which is as far as i know isn't the nicest of the things to say to someone.


Mohammed Khaled said:


> Same can be said with Pakistan and f-16s when looking at their economy.


Pakistan bought 8 subs for 6 billion$ still not impressed?I can brag more but you have google use it.
F-16's cost 80 million$/aircraft now ,that is why PAF is reluctant to buy more and was forcing FMS to subsidise it for them,as lobby turned against FMS,PAF is opting for newer options to fill in the gap for 190 aircraft both inhouse and foreign options are being looked at,SU-35 was offered back in 2015,EFT ,J-10,rafale,MIG-35 also cost around from 50-120 million $ which is not much when buying a newer aircraft nowadays.PAF hasn't done a big ticket purchase since 2000's so it is her turn after navy.You will not be disappointed i promise


~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,they can't even buy cheap helicopters to fight the taliban...


Pakistan paid ~1 Billion$ for 15 AH-1z,in layman terms half of BD army budget isn't it?
And is about to pay more for another batch.You can do the maths.PAA is going to replace 50 (original 60).

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## Dazzler

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,they can't even buy cheap helicopters to fight the taliban...



you should not talk about things you have no idea about.

Advise - stick to the topic, 


consider this a warning.

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## RAMPAGE

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,they can't even buy cheap helicopters to fight the taliban...




Just paid $1 billion for those AH-1Zs to US. How much is your defence budget, Remind me again?

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## Michael Corleone

muhammadali233 said:


> You took it straight to the heart didn't you?
> as far as your economy is concerned yes you are right because BD isn't fighting war right now.Pakistan started receiving it's first more than average FDI this year because of 80% decline in Tango's after zarb e azb. Discussion was about BD not PAK however,if pak ever wanted something it surely got it e.g. Nukes,F-16's back in 1980's (keep that in mind it was the F-35 of 80's)AH-1's/8 aip subs for 6 billion$ and all the good stuff.As our economy took a hit because of floods/earthquakes and terrorism it was declining now as we are done with it,the graph shows positivity.
> Moving on to BD ,SU-35 are 4++ most SU-30's are also 4+ a minimum of 80 million/aircraft when you buy from scratch.2nd hand SU-27 are old not good in BVR and too expensive to maintain(over 30K$/hr) Pakistan was offered but it later rejected for more f-16.
> 
> Never did i said "inappropriate",I want BD to have all the good stuff in the world but that isn't the point right?A fight with Burma can be considered but you won't be able to cope up with IAF no never.
> Nonetheless BD milatary budget is 2 billion$ which won't be able to support expensive aircraft like Sukhois or Mig's 35/29M.
> Burma is getting PAC JFT very soon,MIG-29M can be bought to counter that.
> 
> PAF newer F-16's are equipped with sniper pod's and db 110 recce pods which help targeting/observing thus are useful for precise delivering of gifts to talis from PAF.
> DB-100 and sniper can be seen in pics below.
> View attachment 315733
> 
> View attachment 315734
> 
> Coming to heli's yes you are right,PAA needs more heli's and that is what they are doing.PAA is already operating 70+ Attack chopper AH-1's ,Z-10' ,fennecs,IAR 330s etc.As it is about to retire 50 AH-1s by 2017 it has placed orders for Ah-1z,Mi-35 possibly 2 other platform from these MI-28,T-129,Z-19 and Z-10 as they plan to operate 100+ dedicated attack chopper by 2020.So you shouldn't worry about that.
> 
> Anytime bruv.
> 
> I don't understand local language's please take some time to explain it to me.I can only translate the word "harami" which is as far as i know isn't the nicest of the things to say to someone.
> 
> Pakistan bought 8 subs for 6 billion$ still not impressed?I can brag more but you have google use it.
> F-16's cost 80 million$/aircraft now ,that is why PAF is reluctant to buy more and was forcing FMS to subsidise it for them,as lobby turned against FMS,PAF is opting for newer options to fill in the gap for 190 aircraft both inhouse and foreign options are being looked at,SU-35 was offered back in 2015,EFT ,J-10,rafale,MIG-35 also cost around from 50-120 million $ which is not much when buying a newer aircraft nowadays.PAF hasn't done a big ticket purchase since 2000's so it is her turn after navy.You will not be disappointed i promise
> 
> Pakistan paid ~1 Billion$ for 15 AH-1z,in layman terms half of BD army budget isn't it?
> And is about to pay more for another batch.You can do the maths.PAA is going to replace 50 (original 60).


Pakistan spends billions on its defense and who can blame them. But judging by the economic condition of Pakistan that money can be put in more better goals of economic development. Oh and defense budget of bangladesharmed forces is around 3 billion usd now. Not counting in the paramilitary budget. (Border guard budget, etc. Which totals upto 5 billion) cope with IAF in numbers game? No never not Bangladesh not even Pakistan. But both our airforces are well trained and won't be giving up skies for cheap. We will build deterrence instead. I should say... However Pakistan is being sold crap by Americans now. F-16s are like what 50 years old. Pakistan should definitely go for Chinese variant of sukhoi to build their strength as Russia might be reluctant because India.


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## muhammadali233

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Pakistan spends billions on its defense and who can blame them. But judging by the economic condition of Pakistan that money can be put in more better goals of economic development. Oh and defense budget of bangladesharmed forces is around 3 billion usd now. Not counting in the paramilitary budget. (Border guard budget, etc. Which totals upto 5 billion) cope with IAF in numbers game? No never not Bangladesh not even Pakistan. But both our airforces are well trained and won't be giving up skies for cheap. We will build deterrence instead. I should say... However Pakistan is being sold crap by Americans now. F-16s are like what 50 years old. Pakistan should definitely go for Chinese variant of sukhoi to build their strength as Russia might be reluctant because India.


Don't talk about econmics of Pak these days, it will be a different story to tell next year.
Good to know,It was around 2.6billion$.
F-16's were just sold to (talking about last 10 years) UAE,Egypt,Israel,USAF,PAF and alot others that sums more than 20 billion$ in deals, so it isn't crap.even old F-16 are lethal machine which can give the latest Sukhois/migs a tough time.Whoever calls them junk is retarded af.
Chinese variant of Sukhois are not for sale.Russians delegation was here 5 days ago.
PAF operates Latest F-16's,the old ones are upgraded to Block 50 standards.Which gives more frame life and newer avionics and other major facelifts.
Anyways PAF forum are always open to debate,pay visits there to keep yourself updated,I sincerely don't wan to derail this thread.
Good day.

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## Arthur

@~Phoenix~

Please rafrain from replying to off topic posts. We don't like someone shitting BD or trolling in our thread but we try to ignore them and simply report them and move on to something constructive that we want.It is likewise.We don't go in other sections to talk shit about their country.If they do so in ours it's their lack of sensibility. Replying to off topic posts only further derails the thread. I recommend you edit last bit of your post.

I am seeing you posting very constructively since joining. And it gives me hope about you. Please don't give head to someone who simply don't have any idea.You and @Mohammed Khaled is doing fine. We have good expetations from you.
@Mohammed Khaled ,man,I think we had a understanding on this!! Ignore them!


@muhammadali233 Please don't post off topic and derail the thread. Deciding what is "unnecessary" for BD is not up to you or me. There is professionals in charge of BAF who knows their job hundreds time better than us. Don't start in the fashion you did. Won't gain respect and other will treat and engage you the same offhanded manner.



Stick to the topic everyone.

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## Arthur

muhammadali233 said:


> I gave an opinion on the aircraft instead debating why it maybe potent to them they started targeting at my flag,which i couldn't/cannot bear,cleared of their "misconceptions" is all i did,i hate derailing threads.
> If BD knows what to do and you believe in them,then what has this forum got for you?It was a discussion thread and that is what i am doing,don't try to sound like a moderator or a senior member you ain't one.
> This isn't your hood this a forum open to debate.
> Hope i never come back to this thread,full of bellends.



I will say it again, you have no qualification to give decision for BD. You are just a fan boy. What you did is a known characteristics of many trolls here.

I might not be a senior or a mod,but it is still the BAF thread in BD section. And you are not a Bangladeshi.

So yes,please don't come back.We hate to debate with people who doesn't have a clue.

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## masud

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1228979380475994


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## Arthur

BAF C-130 brings back The Elites to their home after successful completion of 'Operation Thunderbolt'.








©Wakil Choudhury

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## ~Phoenix~

*BAF MiG 29 - A Beautiful Beast*
*



*

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## asad71

BAF has been "gifted" an ACM and few AVMs although the inventory does not require more than an Air Commodore to command. Under the current dispensation BAF is to limit itself to choppers, transports and trainers. The F-7 squadrons are the best they have. One Mig -29 is for show purpose on victory day. Another dual model is to keep the pilots current. The other six are for canibalising parts to keep these two flying - the top most function of the unfortunate Air Chief.

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## Michael Corleone

asad71 said:


> BAF has been "gifted" an ACM and few AVMs although the inventory does not require more than an Air Commodore to command. Under the current dispensation BAF is to limit itself to choppers, transports and trainers. The F-7 squadrons are the best they have. One Mig -29 is for show purpose on victory day. Another dual model is to keep the pilots current. The other six are for canibalising parts to keep these two flying - the top most function of the unfortunate Air Chief.


You do realize recently air forces pilot have assured press that all mugs are operational and 4 are sent to Ukraine for overhaul. Where are you getting your source from. JUST GO AND CHECK KURMITOLA BASE. THE MIGS ARE AT THE HANGER. One two seat version and 3 single seat version.

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## bluesky

Khan saheb said:


> I will say it again, you have no qualification to give decision for BD. You are just a fan boy. What you did is a known characteristics of many trolls here.
> 
> I might not be a senior or a mod,but it is still the BAF thread in BD section. *And you are not a Bangladeshi.
> 
> So yes,please don't come back.We hate to debate with people who doesn't have a clue*.



You wrote a few good and acceptable suggestions about trolling in other posts. But, I believe, you or any one has no right to scold a fellow Forum member the way you did above irrespective of his/her nationality. It is a shame you used so hard words. A discussion forum should be participated by all people irrespective of his/her nationality. This is how the discussions become interesting and people can learn from each other.

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## Arthur

bluesky said:


> You wrote a few good and acceptable suggestions about trolling in other posts. But, I believe, you or any one has no right to scold a fellow Forum member the way you did above irrespective of his/her nationality. It is a shame you used so hard words. A discussion forum should be participated by all people irrespective of his/her nationality. This is how the discussions become interesting and people can learn from each other.



Bro,I don't have anything personal against any nationality. Where you have got that idea, I don't know. I countered a mindset not a nationality, if you somehow didn't notice.

Do you know the meaning of the last word he wrote in his last post ? It's a slang,in case you don't know the meaning, google it. I replied in a civil manner as much as possible.

I am following this forum for a pretty long time (even before opening an account). And in this period they always started it in the same manner. Older BD members had very much debated,and established otherwise their points again and again.
Now do you want this section to keep circling in those same arguments year after year? Limit it to answering the same questions or statements like "Why BD needs fighter ,warships,tanks,army,navy,air force?", "these are just unnecessary for BD" etc. etc. ??? It's custom of this forum that new member read through old pages and threads,in case you don't know. 
If he started it the same manner in any other section in this forum,he would have got it ten time folds most probably banned by the end of the month. 

Members here discussed,debated his points before and almost for years and obviously we don't need to make our points again and again with every Tom and Harry joining the forum every other week.

The real shame is, he choose to be a troll, without reading the older pages,commented something that was debated years prior,instead of contributing positively, engaged other members in the same old troll debates and he was politely advised by another member otherwise who have nothing but goodness in his heart, but since his ego couldn't handle it, he reacted in a offensive manner,used slang and were subsequently shown his place. If you haven't noticed that was his decision not mine, I just welcomed it.


If that fills the category of scolding,obviously I don't care to apply sugar.

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## sbmc27

Bhai apnar age koto? 
Damn mature bhai. 
Agreed with you in every points.
Keep it up. 


Khan saheb said:


> Bro,I don't have anything personal against any nationality. Where you have got that idea, I don't know. I countered a mindset not a nationality, if you somehow didn't notice.
> 
> Do you know the meaning of the last word he wrote in his last post ? It's a slang,in case you don't know the meaning, google it. I replied in a civil manner as much as possible.
> 
> I am following this forum for a pretty long time (even before opening an account). And in this period they always started it in the same manner. Older BD members had very much debated,and established otherwise their points again and again.
> Now do you want this section to keep circling in those same arguments year after year? Limit it to answering the same questions or statements like "Why BD needs fighter ,warships,tanks,army,navy,air force?", "these are just unnecessary for BD" etc. etc. ??? It's custom of this forum that new member read through old pages and threads,in case you don't know. If he started it in other section in this forum,he would have got it ten time folds most probably banned by the end of the month. Members here discussed,debated this before and almost for years and obviously we don't need to make our points again and again with every Tom and Harry joining the forum every other week.
> 
> The real shame is, he choose to be a troll, without reading the older pages,commented something that was debated years prior,instead of contributing positively, engaged other members in the same old troll debates and he was politely advised by another member otherwise who have nothing but goodness in his heart, but since his ego couldn't handle it, he reacted in a offensive manner,used slang and were subsequently shown his place. If you haven't noticed that was his decision not mine, I just welcomed it.
> 
> 
> If that fills the category of scolding,obviously I don't care to apply sugar.


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## BDforever

Khan saheb said:


> I am following this forum for a pretty long time (even before opening an account). And in this period they always started it in the same manner. Older BD members had very much debated,and established otherwise their points again and again.


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## Arthur

BDforever said:


>



Well you were a good ole man when you joined, I had great fun watching you pulling their knots !!!

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## BDforever

Khan saheb said:


> Well you were a good ole man when you joined, I had great fun watching you pulling their knots !!!


I still do  ...

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## Arthur

BDforever said:


> I still do  ...


yes you are,my ole friend ... 
 
All Hail BDforever!!

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## Basel

@BDforever why BD is not buying used F-16 with MLU kits from USA? F-16 will be made in India soon so its good to invest in them as they are much better in quality and maintenance then Mig-29.


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## 45'22'

Basel said:


> @BDforever why BD is not buying used F-16 with MLU kits from USA? F-16 will be made in India soon so its good to invest in them as they are much better in quality and maintenance then Mig-29.


The Jordanian ones?


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## Basel

45'22' said:


> The Jordanian ones?



BD can ask directly from USA they have plenty in good condition which can be MLUed and may be better then Jordanian ones.

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## BDforever

Basel said:


> @BDforever why BD is not buying used F-16 with MLU kits from USA? F-16 will be made in India soon so its good to invest in them as they are much better in quality and maintenance then Mig-29.


because, it is comes with so much conditions+costly + US does not give latest tech unless you are like KSA


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## Arthur

BAF AN-32 (Pictaken in Kiev,Ukraine, circa 2011)

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## Basel

BDforever said:


> because, it is comes with so much conditions+costly + US does not give latest tech unless you are like KSA



No its not as costly as buying new one and BD can choose what capability they want, if BD can afford they could have SABR AESA in MLU for their Birds if they go for used F-16s.

There is a reason PAF is buying used F-16s with MLU kits, and that is they add very advance capability in low cost.


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## Arthur

Another pic from Kiev

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## 45'22'

Basel said:


> No its not as costly as buying new one and BD can choose what capability they want, if BD can afford they could have SABR AESA in MLU for their Birds if they go for used F-16s.
> 
> There is a reason PAF is buying used F-16s with MLU kits, and that is they add very advance capability in low cost.


Maintainance wise ye acha option nahi hai
Agar f16 lena hai toh they should get rid of migs first
Pak ka alag bat hai


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## Basel

Khan saheb said:


> View attachment 316238



Why not buying used C-130 with MLU from USA its economical and will add good capability too.


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## Arthur

Basel said:


> Why not buying used C-130 with MLU from USA its economical and will add good capability too.


We requested three more and additional support for new and older one around 2011-12 from US surplus. No news since. Probably stuck at the FSA audit.

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## Basel

45'22' said:


> Maintainance wise ye acha option nahi hai
> Agar f16 lena hai toh they should get rid of migs first
> Pak ka alag bat hai



You don't have Mig-29s in numbers while F-16 are not maintenance intense as Mig-29s. US will not have issues selling them as India may not have issues with those.


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## SQ8

Khan saheb said:


> I will say it again, you have no qualification to give decision for BD. You are just a fan boy. What you did is a known characteristics of many trolls here.
> 
> I might not be a senior or a mod,*but it is still the BAF thread in BD section*. And you are not a Bangladeshi.
> 
> So yes,please don't come back.We hate to debate with people who doesn't have a clue.


That is a VERY false idea you have. ANYONE FROM ANY COUNTRY CAN COMMENT AND OFFER SUGGESTIONS ON ANY THREAD .. as long as it is reasonable.

You reported a post that does not seem to violate anything, please advise where the violation you say is trolling occured.

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## Arthur

Oscar said:


> That is a VERY false idea you have. ANYONE FROM ANY COUNTRY CAN COMMENT AND OFFER SUGGESTIONS ON ANY THREAD .. as long as it is reasonable.
> 
> You reported a post that does not seem to violate anything, please advise where the violation you say is trolling occured.



As far as I recall I reported for offtopic,trolling and abusive language.

I am sorry that I had gone extra hard un the second reply, but given the context he used slurr in response of my first request and I reacted on that.You can delete my posts if you seem it fit.


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## SQ8

Khan saheb said:


> As far as I recall I reported for offtopic,trolling and abusive language.
> 
> I am sorry that I had gone extra hard but given the context he used slurr in response of my first post to my first request and I reacted on that.You can delete my posts if you seem it fit.


I did not see that in your report. There was a 1 line post made which was then replied with a needless derailment on Pakistan when the best reply would be have the member elaborate what they meant.

On the topic:

The BAF seems to be a neglected end for now due to the reduced threat via air. However, just based on the geography of BD and the same experience had by the PAF in 71, the best route for BD is to have assets capable of deploying via dispersed airfields. But if it cannot afford or does not want them, then it can sign a treaty with India where the Indian Military forces will provide protection in case of conflict and all BD will need is a land army with border police.

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## Arthur

Oscar said:


> I did not see that in your report. There was a 1 line post made which was then replied with a needless derailment on Pakistan when the best reply would be have the member elaborate what they meant.


I didn't made any mention of Pakistan. I responded to his post #1978 where he said some platform in "unneccessery' by saying he isn't a BAF expert. Then he replied with a slurr word in the end of the post. check post #1990. There is only 2 reply in total between two of us.

Anyway I most probably reported the wrong post. You are welcome to delete my posts if you decide it fit.


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## SQ8

Khan saheb said:


> I didn't made any mention of Pakistan. I responded to his post #1978 where he said some platform in "unneccessery' by saying he isn't a BAF expert. Then he replied with a slurr word in the end of the post. check post #1990. There is only 2 reply in total between two of us.
> 
> Anyway I most probably reported the wrong post. You are welcome to delete my posts if you decide it fit.


No you, another member did. They should know better than to start off flaming in the get go.


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## bluesky

Basel said:


> You don't have Mig-29s in numbers while F-16 are not maintenance intense as Mig-29s. US will not have issues selling them *as India may not have issues with those.*



Why do you think India will not make an issue if there is a talk on buying F-16 planes? Today, USA's best Asian friend is India because of geopolitics in Asia and our region.


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## Bilal9

Oscar said:


> I did not see that in your report. There was a 1 line post made which was then replied with a needless derailment on Pakistan when the best reply would be have the member elaborate what they meant.
> 
> On the topic:
> 
> The BAF seems to be a neglected end for now due to the reduced threat via air. However, just based on the geography of BD and the same experience had by the PAF in 71, the best route for BD is to have assets capable of deploying via dispersed airfields. But if it cannot afford or does not want them, then it can sign a treaty with India where the Indian Military forces will provide protection in case of conflict and all BD will need is a land army with border police.



I would respectfully disagree with the view that BAF either

a) cannot afford or
b) does not want

air-superiority or at least air-defense assets.

To wit,

1. The dispersed airfields during PAF times are still available and some have been modernized in the last five or so years.
2. Because our AF budget is on the low side, there won't be a priority to equip BAF well at this time.

However I would posit that the BAF (along with all other armed national defense services in Bangladesh except maybe Home Ministry/RAB or armed police) do possess independent decision-making ability on their asset budgeting and procurement. Hasina plays it nice with the armed forces and leaves them alone. Doing otherwise has boded ill for the tenure of all PM's historically.

All Chief of Staff of the armed forces maintain tactful protocol with the Prime Minister and it is reportedly a quid-pro-quo situation.

They run things independently without undue influence in civilian affairs. And in return they expect and get the arms that they feel they want per the overtly published 'Forces Goal 2030' and other covert assets. Building the Navy is the priority at this time for obvious reasons. BAF is the third child after the army and will get leftover funds for now.

While Bangladesh won't be getting 4th Gen. air-superiority fighters anytime soon (your assessment is accurate about overt neglect of BAF), we still can't rule this out being available in small numbers for training needs. We won't be trumpeting the acquisition of assets and asking everyone in the neighborhood for their opinion on this, It happens when it does. I trust the judgment of the senior BAF leaders. They understand that their country is not on a war footing and that funds are limited for expensive defense purchases.

That said - for a country in Bangladesh' defense posture profile, we have had both the Navy and Army's air wing equipment heavily modernized. SHORAD defenses have also been deployed along the coastline and at logistics points.

While you are accurate about not ignoring the whims of Modi administration in this PM's tenure, things could be different in the next one. No administration lasts forever. And no administration in Bangladesh being a smaller neighbor within SAARC (which we mooted by the way) can ignore subcontinental Geo-politics.

I will finally say that signing a 'defense treaty' with India is rather out of the question. My prediction is that Bangladesh will rather choose to turn into Afghanistan if that is even attempted and that is not what policymakers in Lodhi Road even want. No one is trying to turn Bangladesh into 'Ram Rajya' and the price will be too steep.

I'd also say (a little OT) - that India's concern is a 'stable economic market entity' for selling a combination of the likes of 'Amla Hair oil' (FMCG goods) and textile looms (capital goods) and they are happy with that. If Pakistan wants to sell us FMCG, Capital goods as well as do business, we are open for that too. I personally know quite a few Pakistani families who do active trade in Bangladesh in the textile sector.

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## Basel

bluesky said:


> Why do you think India will not make an issue if there is a talk on buying F-16 planes? Today, USA's best Asian friend is India because of geopolitics in Asia and our region.



Because you have a very friendly Government towards India and F-16 MLUed even if 40 purchased are still no big threat to India, if you compare it with quality and size of Indian air force, it only add BD in Indo-US and their allies equation.


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## Michael Corleone

Basel said:


> Why not buying used C-130 with MLU from USA its economical and will add good capability too.


Considered still pending in FSA and pentagon approval.



Basel said:


> You don't have Mig-29s in numbers while F-16 are not maintenance intense as Mig-29s. US will not have issues selling them as India may not have issues with those.


F-16 is a single jet engine so comparatively no. But for two engined jets... mig29 maintenance is reasonable. Don't forget maintenance cost of f-16 is extremely high when compared with a mig 29



Oscar said:


> On the topic:
> 
> The BAF seems to be a neglected end for now due to the reduced threat via air. However, just based on the geography of BD and the same experience had by the PAF in 71, the best route for BD is to have assets capable of deploying via dispersed airfields. But if it cannot afford or does not want them, then it can sign a treaty with India where the Indian Military forces will provide protection in case of conflict and all BD will need is a land army with border police.


That is something Bangladeshi people won't be okay with. To be frank.


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## Arthur




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## Arthur




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## Basel

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Considered still pending in FSA and pentagon approval.
> 
> 
> F-16 is a single jet engine so comparatively no. But for two engined jets... mig29 maintenance is reasonable. Don't forget maintenance cost of f-16 is extremely high when compared with a mig 29
> 
> 
> That is something Bangladeshi people won't be okay with. To be frank.



F-16 is cheaper in life cycle cost and maintenance while Mig-29 is expensive. Mig-29 have two engines because when it was made USSR didn't had enough powerful engine to power F-16 class / size jet that is why Mig-29 had 2 engines.

You can compare both early F-16 and Mig-29 specifications.


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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> I would respectfully disagree with the view that BAF either
> 
> a) cannot afford or
> b) does not want
> 
> air-superiority or at least air-defense assets.
> 
> To wit,
> 
> 1. The dispersed airfields during PAF times are still available and some have been modernized in the last five or so years.
> 2. Because our AF budget is on the low side, there won't be a priority to equip BAF well at this time.
> 
> However I would posit that the BAF (along with all other armed national defense services in Bangladesh except maybe Home Ministry/RAB or armed police) do possess independent decision-making ability on their asset budgeting and procurement. Hasina plays it nice with the armed forces and leaves them alone. Doing otherwise has boded ill for the tenure of all PM's historically.
> 
> All Chief of Staff of the armed forces maintain tactful protocol with the Prime Minister and it is reportedly a quid-pro-quo situation.
> 
> They run things independently without undue influence in civilian affairs. And in return they expect and get the arms that they feel they want per the overtly published 'Forces Goal 2030' and other covert assets. Building the Navy is the priority at this time for obvious reasons. BAF is the third child after the army and will get leftover funds for now.
> 
> While Bangladesh won't be getting 4th Gen. air-superiority fighters anytime soon (your assessment is accurate about overt neglect of BAF), we still can't rule this out being available in small numbers for training needs. We won't be trumpeting the acquisition of assets and asking everyone in the neighborhood for their opinion on this, It happens when it does. I trust the judgment of the senior BAF leaders. They understand that their country is not on a war footing and that funds are limited for expensive defense purchases.
> 
> That said - for a country in Bangladesh' defense posture profile, we have had both the Navy and Army's air wing equipment heavily modernized. SHORAD defenses have also been deployed along the coastline and at logistics points.
> 
> While you are accurate about not ignoring the whims of Modi administration in this PM's tenure, things could be different in the next one. No administration lasts forever. And no administration in Bangladesh being a smaller neighbor within SAARC (which we mooted by the way) can ignore subcontinental Geo-politics.
> 
> I will finally say that signing a 'defense treaty' with India is rather out of the question. My prediction is that Bangladesh will rather choose to turn into Afghanistan if that is even attempted and that is not what policymakers in Lodhi Road even want. No one is trying to turn Bangladesh into 'Ram Rajya' and the price will be too steep.
> 
> I'd also say (a little OT) - that India's concern is a 'stable economic market entity' for selling a combination of the likes of 'Amla Hair oil' (FMCG goods) and textile looms (capital goods) and they are happy with that. If Pakistan wants to sell us FMCG, Capital goods as well as do business, we are open for that too. I personally know quite a few Pakistani families who do active trade in Bangladesh in the textile sector.



Overall a good post but I would not be surprised if BD was to have 4 squadrons of 4+ generation fighters in service in time for it's 50th birthday of independence by 2021.

We need to remember that BD economy is currently US 220 billion dollars and growing at 7% a year. The growth rate is likely to pick up to 8-9% over the next 2-3 years as projects like Padma bridge and the 4-laning of major highways is completed one after another.

Sparing 2-3 billion dollars for purchase of fighter aircraft by BAF should be achievable in the next 5 years.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> 4-laning of major highways is completed one after another



Dhaka-Mymensingh and Dhaka-Chittagong are already 4-lane all the way through. The highway from Dhaka to Padma Bridge is going to be 4 lane as well.

There are other ones in the pipeline you are saying then? What about Dhaka-Sylhet?


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## bluesky

Bilal9 said:


> Dhaka-Mymensingh and Dhaka-Chittagong are already 4-lane all the way through. The highway from Dhaka to Padma Bridge is going to be 4 lane as well.
> 
> There are other ones in the pipeline you are saying then? What about Dhaka-Sylhet?


And what about Gabtoli - Aricha road? Any news about making it 4 - lane?


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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> Dhaka-Mymensingh and Dhaka-Chittagong are already 4-lane all the way through. The highway from Dhaka to Padma Bridge is going to be 4 lane as well.
> 
> There are other ones in the pipeline you are saying then? What about Dhaka-Sylhet?



Dhaka-Sylhet 4 lane highway is planned to get started in 2017 with completion due for 2019. The funding may come from ADB.

Below is the project plan for upgrading BD road network:

http://www.rthd.gov.bd/assets/docs/Development Forum Booklet_2015.pdf

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## Michael Corleone

Basel said:


> F-16 is cheaper in life cycle cost and maintenance while Mig-29 is expensive. Mig-29 have two engines because when it was made USSR didn't had enough powerful engine to power F-16 class / size jet that is why Mig-29 had 2 engines.
> 
> You can compare both early F-16 and Mig-29 specifications.


Nope. Wrong. The reason why it actually was build with two engine or so Russians relied upon is because in case of 1 engine failure. The plane can still remain on air. Maintenance and overhaul of f-16 are more when compared with a mig. But migs have to be more often maintained than the f-16 because of its twin engines.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Nope. Wrong. The reason why it actually was build with two engine or so Russians relied upon is because in case of 1 engine failure. The plane can still remain on air. Maintenance and overhaul of f-16 are more when compared with a mig. But migs have to be more often maintained than the f-16 because of its twin engines.



Plus MiG-29 looks sexier...

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## Basel

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Nope. Wrong. The reason why it actually was build with two engine or so Russians relied upon is because in case of 1 engine failure. The plane can still remain on air. Maintenance and overhaul of f-16 are more when compared with a mig. But migs have to be more often maintained than the f-16 because of its twin engines.



Kindly google it.

and F-16 s have much longer airframe and engine life compared to Mig-29 that is on of many reasons why its cheaper to maintain and operate.

@gambit please share you views.

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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> Kindly google it.
> 
> and F-16 s have much longer airframe and engine life compared to Mig-29 that is on of many reasons why its cheaper to maintain and operate.
> 
> @gambit please share you views.



Yeah,but we are NOT going for american birds...We have plans to purchase 3-5 ( 48-80 units ) squadrons of Su-30mkk and MiG-35 by 2020...and purchase 10 squadrons ( 160 units ) of 4.5+ Generation by 2030 in order to achieve the targets of The Forces Goal 2030

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_Goal_2030#Air_Force
It says :
"Bangladesh Air Force has an ambitious plan of acquiring ten squadrons of 4++ generations fighters by 2030. These ten squadrons will consist of four multirole and six air superiority squadrons. BAF is planning to have at least four squadrons of 4++ generation fighters by 2021. The Mig-35 and Su-30 are the frontrunners among other aircraft being evaluated by Air Force officials."
It also says :
"BAC ( Bongobondhu Aeronautical Center ) is working on building indigenous surveillance UAVs by 2017."

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## UKBengali

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,but we are NOT going for american birds...We have plans to purchase 3-5 ( 48-80 units ) squadrons of Su-30mkk and MiG-35 by 2020...and purchase 10 squadrons ( 160 units ) of 4.5+ Generation by 2030 in order to achieve the targets of The Forces Goal 2030




BD will not buy 4.5 generation fighters next decade.
It will go for 5th generation planes as many countries like China, Turkey and Korea will have these
planes available for sale.


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## ~Phoenix~

UKBengali said:


> BD will not buy 4.5 generation fighters next decade.
> It will go for 5th generation planes as many countries like China, Turkey and Korea will have these
> planes available for sale.



Yeah,and your grandpa will pay for them...

We don't have more than 10 proper 4th generation aircraft...

Even though we *might *go for a small squadron ( probably 8 units ) of Shenyang J-31...




*BTW,STOP DREAMING AND GET BACK TO WORK!



*


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## UKBengali

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,and your grandpa will pay for them...
> 
> We don't have more than 10 proper 4th generation aircraft...
> 
> Even though we *might *go for a small squadron ( probably 8 units ) of Shenyang J-31...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BTW,STOP DREAMING AND GET BACK TO WORK!
> View attachment 316520
> *



How mathematically capable are you?

BD's ever growing economy means that sizeable numbers of fifth generation can be procured next decade and
maintained over the following decades.

Unless you can mathematically argue this, don't bother replying.


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## Anubis

UKBengali said:


> How mathematically capable are you?
> 
> BD's ever growing economy means that sizeable numbers of fifth generation can be procured next decade and
> maintained over the following decades.
> 
> Unless you can mathematically argue this, don't bother replying.


And who is going to sell BD 5th gen fighters?

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## ~Phoenix~

UKBengali said:


> How mathematically capable are you?
> 
> BD's ever growing economy means that sizeable numbers of fifth generation can be procured next decade and
> maintained over the following decades.
> 
> Unless you can mathematically argue this, don't bother replying.



@Loki @BDforever @Mohammed Khaled @Bilal9 @masud Make him understand,guys..



Anubis said:


> And who is going to sell BD 5th gen fighters?



Probably China or Russia...but other countries will be against this if we buy them in numbers...


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## Anubis

~Phoenix~ said:


> @Loki @BDforever @Mohammed Khaled @Bilal9 @masud Make him understand,guys..
> 
> 
> 
> Probably China or Russia...but other countries will be against this if we buy them in numbers...


Russia isn't going to sell it to us because the same aircraft will be used by the Indians...and a change in government will mean the technology might end up in Paksitan's hands....China isn't gonna sell it to us because it will end up in India's hands...unless you can find a seller who has no stake in our regional politics we aren't getting them.

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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,but we are NOT going for american birds...We have plans to purchase 3-5 ( 48-80 units ) squadrons of Su-30mkk and MiG-35 by 2020...and purchase 10 squadrons ( 160 units ) of 4.5+ Generation by 2030 in order to achieve the targets of The Forces Goal 2030
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_Goal_2030#Air_Force
> It says :
> "Bangladesh Air Force has an ambitious plan of acquiring ten squadrons of 4++ generations fighters by 2030. These ten squadrons will consist of four multirole and six air superiority squadrons. BAF is planning to have at least four squadrons of 4++ generation fighters by 2021. The Mig-35 and Su-30 are the frontrunners among other aircraft being evaluated by Air Force officials."
> It also says :
> "BAC ( Bongobondhu Aeronautical Center ) is working on building indigenous surveillance UAVs by 2017."



Why BD is ignoring 5th gen option till 2030? If they go for used MLUed F-16s (with AESA radar + new IRST if they want 4++gen fighter) will allow savings for upcoming 5th gen plane.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> Why BD is ignoring 5th gen option till 2030? If they go for used MLUed F-16s (with AESA radar + new IRST if they want 4++gen fighter) will allow savings for upcoming 5th gen plane.



No American Birds...


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## UKBengali

Anubis said:


> Russia isn't going to sell it to us because the same aircraft will be used by the Indians...and a change in government will mean the technology might end up in Paksitan's hands....China isn't gonna sell it to us because it will end up in India's hands...unless you can find a seller who has no stake in our regional politics we aren't getting them.



I think China will as the J-31 is specifically designed for export and won't have the best Chinese technology
like the J-20 will.

If China is not interested, there is also the Turkish and Korean options.

Buying 4th Gen fighters next decade will be a waste as they will soon become obsolete.


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## syed1

*Bangladesh Air Force chief leaves for UK*

July 10, 2016 12:07 am

*Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka *

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc, left here for UK on Thursday for an official visit to attend the Royal International Air Tattoo -2016, an ISPR release said.
The Bangladesh Air Force chief will also attend Farnborough International Air Show during his visit.
It is expected that the visit of the chief of air staff will play an important role in strengthening the existing friendly relationship between the armed forces of two countries.

http://newagebd.net/239434/bangladesh-air-force-chief-leaves-uk/

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## ~Phoenix~

UKBengali said:


> I think China will as the J-31 is specifically designed for export and won't have the best Chinese technology
> like the J-20 will.
> 
> If China is not interested, there is also the Turkish and Korean options.
> 
> Buying 4th Gen fighters next decade will be a waste as they will soon become obsolete.



Turkey and Korea's stealth aircrafts will be available for export after 2030....If we wait for then,we will not be able to achieve Forces Goal 2030...

We will probably stop buying 4th Gen birds after 2030,we will buy 10 squadrons ( 160 units ) of 4++ Generation birds before 2030...

Shenyang J-31 Gyrfalcon/Falconhawk is much closer in getting into our 5th Gen inventory than any other such birds...But rest assured,you won't see any 5th Gen birds in BAF before 2030...


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> @Loki @BDforever @Mohammed Khaled @Bilal9 @masud Make him understand,guys..
> 
> 
> 
> Probably China or Russia...but other countries will be against this if we buy them in numbers...


We don't have the money. PERIOD. first buy 8 more migs 29 and complete that mig 29 squadron. Then think about buying 5th gen. lmao. But all in all thinking about the future... if we want new techs... we can't keep shifting boats. Get along with Russia. Stay with Russia. Get along with China. Stay with China. These jumping boats policy is getting Bangladesh nowhere.



Basel said:


> Why BD is ignoring 5th gen option till 2030? If they go for used MLUed F-16s (with AESA radar + new IRST if they want 4++gen fighter) will allow savings for upcoming 5th gen plane.


You know the cost for maintenance for us will increase because we will have to train service crew for maintaining those fighters... keep two different trees of parts. Making it much costlier for us.



syed1 said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force chief leaves for UK*
> 
> July 10, 2016 12:07 am
> 
> *Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka *
> 
> Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc, left here for UK on Thursday for an official visit to attend the Royal International Air Tattoo -2016, an ISPR release said.
> The Bangladesh Air Force chief will also attend Farnborough International Air Show during his visit.
> It is expected that the visit of the chief of air staff will play an important role in strengthening the existing friendly relationship between the armed forces of two countries.
> 
> http://newagebd.net/239434/bangladesh-air-force-chief-leaves-uk/


Possible plane purchase. Ahem. 


Only difference between 4th gen and 5th gen is the stealth. Maneuverability stays the same. Major changes in6th gen due in development by USA, FRANCE, RUSSIA


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> We don't have the money. PERIOD. first buy 8 more migs 29 and complete that mig 29 squadron. Then think about buying 5th gen. lmao. But all in all thinking about the future... if we want new techs... we can't keep shifting boats. Get along with Russia. Stay with Russia. Get along with China. Stay with China. These jumping boats policy is getting Bangladesh nowhere.



How about clinging with both of them together at the same time?



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Only difference between 4th gen and 5th gen is the stealth. Maneuverability stays the same. Major changes in6th gen due in development by USA, FRANCE, RUSSIA



Don't be mean to them,they barely started with 5th Generation birds ( except USA ) few more decades for 6th Gen...Maybe the 6th generation ones will fire lasers and can teleport.??



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Possible plane purchase. Ahem.



I will hold a party in my house if such things happen...


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## Michael Corleone

Basel said:


> Kindly google it.
> 
> and F-16 s have much longer airframe and engine life compared to Mig-29 that is on of many reasons why its cheaper to maintain and operate.
> 
> @gambit please share you views.


Mig 29 engine life is shorter. Yes. F-16s length gives it no advantage in maintenance cost etc.



~Phoenix~ said:


> How about clinging with both of them together at the same time?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be mean to them,they barely started with 5th Generation birds ( except USA ) few more decades for 6th Gen...Maybe the 6th generation ones will fire lasers and can teleport.??
> 
> 
> 
> I will hold a party in my house if such things happen...


If the boat decides to shift direction. We will end up in the water. 
No I wasn't mean. They are developing those jets now secretly. There has been talks about this since 2014. 
Invite me to the party too  before I leave Bangladesh.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Invite me to the party too  before I leave Bangladesh.


Sure,but you'll have to pay for the costs ( including food,decoration and Momtaj hiring costs )


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## Basel

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Mig 29 engine life is shorter. Yes. F-16s length gives it no advantage in maintenance cost etc.
> 
> 
> If the boat decides to shift direction. We will end up in the water.
> No I wasn't mean. They are developing those jets now secretly. There has been talks about this since 2014.
> Invite me to the party too  before I leave Bangladesh.



Yes, it does just google it.

if you have to change whole engine after 4000 hours in Mig-29, while in F-16 its above 6000 hours then which one is costly in terms of maintenance.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> Yes, it does just google it.
> 
> if you have to change whole engine after 4000 hours in Mig-29, while in F-16 its above 6000 hours then which one is costly in terms of maintenance.


No offence,but...

That doesn't matter,we ain't gonna buy 'em anyways...Keep your F-16s to yourself...bruh...

BTW,there are other aircrafts in the world beside your "beloved F-16 with MLU"...


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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> No offence,but...
> 
> That doesn't matter,we ain't gonna buy 'em anyways...Keep your F-16s to yourself...bruh...
> 
> BTW,there are other aircrafts in the world beside your "beloved F-16 with MLU"...



Basically you are Indian ally and India is US ally that is why I proposed cheap solution for high end aircraft which will not have sanction issues to BD due to no hostility (war) is possible with India. Although BD cant afford new J-10 or Tejas forget mew western jets.

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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> Basically you are Indian ally and India is US ally that is why I proposed cheap solution for high end aircraft which will not have sanction issues to BD due to no hostility (war) is possible with India. Although BD cant afford new J-10 or Tejas forget mew western jets.




We are India's ally on the *POLITICAL FIELD ONLY*...But we are China's ally on the *MILITARY FIELD*...We even have a defence agreement that states that China will protect us if a non-ally of China attacks us...

BTW,our economy is doing better than yours...And we are gonna order 3 or more squadrons of Su-30/MiG-35 this year or the next one...


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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> We are India's ally on the *POLITICAL FIELD ONLY*...But we are China's ally on the *MILITARY FIELD*...We even have a defence agreement that states that China will protect us if a non-ally of China attacks us...
> 
> BTW,our economy is doing better than yours...And we are gonna order 3 or more squadrons of Su-30/MiG-35 this year or the next one...



Did China Offer you J-10B/C? Or partnership in 5th gen project like they offer Pakistan? They only sell you J-7 because they know you are a puppet state of India specially when Haseena is ruling.

Please post link where China declare that they will defend BD, dear they consult Pakistan before doing business with BD.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> Did China Offer you J-10B/C? Or partnership in 5th gen project like they offer Pakistan? They only sell you J-7 because they know you are a puppet state of India specially when Haseena is ruling.
> 
> Please post link where China declare that they will defend BD, dear they consult Pakistan before doing business with BD.




That was during the '80s or the '90s bruh...

BTW,China mostly sells us naval equipment and army equipment...Infact we are the largest importer of Chinese goodies...And they also help us in economic projects...

BTW,we asked USA if we could buy 27 F-16s from them and they rejected...It was back in the '80s though..


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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> That was during the '80s or the '90s bruh...
> 
> BTW,China mostly sells us naval equipment and army equipment...Infact we are the largest importer of Chinese goodies...And they also help us in economic projects...
> 
> BTW,we asked USA if we could buy 27 F-16s from them and they rejected...It was back in the '80s though..



China only sell 2nd line stuff to BD, reason is BD is under influence of India so China will never offer its top tech to BD. Time have changed India is now US ally and very good friend of BD, I proposed F-16 to BD due to several favoring reasons to BD, and one of them is that F-16 may be make in India soon, also no issue in maintenance and even new one will be cheaper due to low labor cost in India.


----------



## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> China only sell 2nd line stuff to BD, reason is BD is under influence of India so China will never offer its top tech to BD. Time have changed India is now US ally and very good friend of BD, I proposed F-16 to BD due to several favoring reasons to BD, and one of them is that F-16 may be make in India soon, also no issue in maintenance and even new one will be cheaper due to low labor cost in India.



India focusing on FGFA,HAL LCA TEJAS,Dassault Rafaels now...American birds ARE WAY TOO EXPENSIVE..
To me,I'd prefer JF-17 or FC-1 as it is cheap and versatile and low maintainance costs...but our government prefers Russian heavy birds... ( J-10B,F-16,JAS-39,F/A-18 are in evaluation but Su-30 mkk and MiG-35 is on top of the want list )


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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> India focusing on FGFA,HAL LCA TEJAS,Dassault Rafaels now...American birds ARE WAY TOO EXPENSIVE..
> To me,I'd prefer JF-17 or FC-1 as it is cheap and versatile and low maintainance costs...but our government prefers Russian heavy birds... ( J-10B,F-16,JAS-39,F/A-18 are in evaluation but Su-30 mkk and MiG-35 is on top of the want list )



BD may be able to buy Su-30 or Mig-35s but BD will not be able to fund 5th gen fighter then, because both jets are expensive to operate / maintain and Mig-35 is not even in production yet so it will be costly to buy those. Mig is facing quality issues, due to that some years ago an African Country sent back new Mig-29s to Russia and demanded Su-30s in return.

India is buying top of the line US equipment like Apache gunship, M-777 Howitzer, C-130J, P-8I MPAs etc. they are going to make F-16/18 in India soon as talks are underway. In future US fighter jet in IAF or in IN is possible.


----------



## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> BD may be able to buy Su-30 or Mig-35s but BD will not be able to fund 5th gen fighter then, because both jets are expensive to operate / maintain and Mig-35 is not even in production yet so it will be costly to buy those. Mig is facing quality issues, due to that some years ago an African Country sent back new Mig-29s to Russia and demanded Su-30s in return.



MiG-35 is different,bro..
And our economy will be changed in huge amounts at 7% growth per year and will increase growth rate to 8-9% in the next few years, so by 2025 or atleast 2030,we will be able to afford a squadron of J-31s...


----------



## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> MiG-35 is different,bro..
> And our economy will be changed in huge amounts at 7% growth per year and will increase growth rate to 8-9% in the next few years, so by 2025 or atleast 2030,we will be able to afford a squadron of J-31s...



But will China sell you J-31? Or Offer you JV in it? Because SAC need partner in this project and Chinese military currently not interested in it that is why they want Pakistan in JV with them. Due to India, China may not offer it to BD but BD can wait and go for PAK-FA from Russia when they have funds available.

Su-30SM/M2 for high-end jet will be good but it will need Tejas or JFT type jet to complement it or take role of work horse here Mig-35 can fit but will be expensive because BD have to bear development cost of Mig-35 because no one is buying it. Only Egypt may go for it but not confirmed.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> But will China sell you J-31? Or Offer you JV in it? Because SAC need partner in this project and Chinese military currently not interested in it that is why they want Pakistan in JV with them. Due to India, China may not offer it to BD but BD can wait and go for PAK-FA from Russia when they have funds available.
> 
> Su-30SM/M2 for high-end jet will be good but it will need Tejas or JFT type jet to complement it or take role of work horse here Mig-35 can fit but will be expensive because BD have to bear development cost of Mig-35 because no one is buying it. Only Egypt may go for it but not confirmed.



Egypt confirmed 50 MiG-35s costing less than 2 billion and already paid Russia a part of it and will recieve the first batch at end of this year...And Russia will buy 117+ units of MiG-35 after 2017

India wont send Tejas to us... and J-31 is made for export,right? Iran is looking to buy it as well..


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## Michael Corleone

Basel said:


> Yes, it does just google it.
> 
> if you have to change whole engine after 4000 hours in Mig-29, while in F-16 its above 6000 hours then which one is costly in terms of maintenance.


Price of parts are different. Airframe maintenance cost on f-16 is high

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Price of parts are different. Airframe maintenance cost on f-16 is high



Plus its American stuff,so it comes with political strings attached..


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## Basel

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Price of parts are different. Airframe maintenance cost on f-16 is high



No its not compared to Su-30 & Mig-29, google it.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> No its not compared to Su-30 & Mig-29, google it.



But which is better? MiG-35,Su-30 or F-16? 

We have enough money for maintainance costs...even though most money goes to the Swiss bank accounts of the officials..


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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> But which is better? MiG-35,Su-30 or F-16?
> 
> We have enough money for maintainance costs...even though most money goes to the Swiss bank accounts of the officials..



look if one can afford (also available) advance tech then they go for western systems for example India, although they purchased Su-30 from Russia back in 90s when they were not close to US they still went for systems which came from France and Israel, in MMRCA they dumped Russia and went for western jet.

Russian tech is good but not at par with west because they can't invest much in R&D while west and even China is investing heavily in R&D.

One example is that Mig-29K was not developed until India payed the bill, and still that Mig-29K is not for all future ACCs because they can have much advance Rafael-M or 5th Gen F-35 available for those.

You don't have big threat for now and in near future and no issues with current big powers then save money and buy used F-16s with MLU if you can pay then add AESA + IRIST to it and you will have 4++gen fighter in low price, can also go for new ones possibly make in India which will be cheaper then make in US those will have more range payload, more powerful and more reliable engine. F-16s are very pilot friendly and have more availability for operation compared to Mig-29 & Su-30.

BD can go for good numbers of Pak FA or possibly F-35, if BD spend money sensibly now. If BD really want to go for Russian non 5th gen then go for Su-35's latest version it has most engine and airframe life in any modern Sukhoi fighter jet ever built and its most advance too.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> India is buying top of the line US equipment like Apache gunship, M-777 Howitzer, C-130J, P-8I MPAs etc. they are going to make F-16/18 in India soon as talks are underway. In future US fighter jet in IAF or in IN is possible.



India is busy worshipping Russian birds...India and Russia are developing the PAK FA FGFA together...








They have huge numbers of Russian birds already...
And they are getting Dassault Rafaels and other better stuff,so they won't get old stuff anymore like F-16/F-18..



Basel said:


> BD can go for good numbers of Pak FA or possibly F-35, if BD spend money sensibly now. If BD really want to go for Russian non 5th gen then go for Su-35's latest version it has most engine and airframe life in any modern Sukhoi fighter jet ever built and its most advance too.



J-31 and Su-35 seems the closest option..



Basel said:


> You don't have big threat for now and in near future and no issues with current big powers then save money and buy used F-16s with MLU if you can pay then add AESA + IRIST to it and you will have 4++gen fighter in low price, can also go for new ones possibly make in India which will be cheaper then make in US those will have more range payload, more powerful and more reliable engine. F-16s are very pilot friendly and have more availability for operation compared to Mig-29 & Su-30.



Maybe,but we are going for MiG-*35* and Su-30 most probably....


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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> India is busy worshipping Russian birds...India and Russia are developing the PAK FA FGFA together...
> View attachment 316955
> View attachment 316954
> 
> They have huge numbers of Russian birds already...
> And they are getting Dassault Rafaels and other better stuff,so they won't get old stuff anymore like F-16/F-18..
> 
> 
> 
> J-31 and Su-35 seems the closest option..
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe,but we are going for MiG-*35* and Su-30 most probably....



India is not buying PAK FA, they want to built FGFA based on PAK FA which will have many western systems, Russia is pushing sale of PAK FA. India have upgraded its Russian jets with many western systems many coming from Israel.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> India is not buying PAK FA, they want to built FGFA based on PAK FA which will have many western systems, Russia is pushing sale of PAK FA. India have upgraded its Russian jets with many western systems many coming from Israel.



Israel.......eww!

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## Michael Corleone

Basel said:


> No its not compared to Su-30 & Mig-29, google it.



F-16 is a cost effective aircraft designed to perform at a level close to f-15. 
Mig 29 is designed to achieve air superiority regardless if the pilot can handle the extreme or not. 
If the pilot can't. He loses, but if the pilot can he wins. That's how it works with migs. Plus try taking off with f16 on a bombed runway! Good luck.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> F-16 is a cost effective aircraft designed to perform at a level close to f-15.
> Mig 29 is designed to achieve air superiority regardless if the pilot can handle the extreme or not.
> If the pilot can't. He loses, but if the pilot can he wins. That's how it works with migs. Plus try taking off with f16 on a bombed runway! Good luck.



Well said,bro

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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> Egypt confirmed 50 MiG-35s costing less than 2 billion and already paid Russia a part of it and will recieve the first batch at end of this year...And Russia will buy 117+ units of MiG-35 after 2017
> 
> India wont send Tejas to us... and J-31 is made for export,right? Iran is looking to buy it as well..



J-31 is for export but it also need partner to jointly develop it.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> J-31 is for export but it also need partner to jointly develop it.



They should seek help from Pakistan....or maybe Ukarine...


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## Basel

~Phoenix~ said:


> They should seek help from Pakistan....or maybe Ukarine...



It is offered to Pakistan like JFT project but Pakistan also have offer to join TFX & KFX projects too.


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## ~Phoenix~

Basel said:


> It is offered to Pakistan like JFT project but Pakistan also have offer to join TFX & KFX projects too.



Pakistan should invest heavily on them..


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## ~Phoenix~

*Bangladesh - Air Force Modernization*



As of mid-1988, the air force inventory included three squadrons of combat aircraft, some of which were probably unserviceable. These squadrons included vintage MiG-21 interceptors supplied by the Soviet Union during the Mujib period. In 1978 China supplied fifteen F-6s (the Chinese version of the Soviet MiG-19) and sixteen A-5s in 1986. The Chinese-supplied fighter inventory in early 1988 totaled two squadrons, or about thirty A-5s and F-6s. Transport aircraft included one An-26 squadron supplied by the Soviets. Helicopters, used in disaster relief and troop transport operations, included thirteen American-made Bell 212s (twin-engine Hueys) and eleven Soviet-supplied Mi-8s.

The AL government in 1996-2001 purchased eight MiG-29 fighters for the air force. On coming to power in 2001, the BNP-led four-party government brought charges against Hasina and others for corruption in that purchase. In 2007 Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group supplied to Bangladesh 12 F-7BG and 4 FT-7BG two-seater fighters.

In August 2009 Bangladesh Air Force completed plans to urgently purchase one squadron of fighter trainer aircraft and simulators for fighter planes and helicopters, and set up overhauling plants for the existing F-7 fighter planes and MI series helicopters. It had prepared long-term plans for other major defence purchases by 2021 and beyond to modernise the force. It also was seeking either 10 percent increase in budgetary allocation or special allocation for the next 10 years to achieve the target.

The report which describes the problems the air force is facing and suggests ways to overcome them, was placed before the parliamentary standing committee on defence ministry on 14 July 009 for discussion. The plans included purchasing of air defence radars and surface-to-air missile systems to protect important establishments of the force, replacement of A-5, FT-5 and F-7 fighter planes and induction of aircraft for airborne early warning, a system used for directing fighters to targets and counter attacks.

The air force was also seeking to turn Cox’s Bazar into an advanced base to increase the force’s operational capability, approval of an organogram of the Kurmitola base, increase in healthcare facility for the force members and proper steps regarding their salaries and allowances. The air force suggested that the purchases be completed in phases by 2021. After 2021, it wants to begin purchasing aircraft in phases to form three air defence squadrons. An air force squadron typically consists of three or four air units, with a total of 12 to 24 aircraft, depending on the type of aircraft and the air force.

The Air Force said the budgetary allocation for the air force has been decreased in the last two financial years. The allocation was increased to 20.90 percent of the total defence budget in FY 2005-06 from 18.56 percent in 2004-05. In FY 2006-07, the air force was given 20.97 percent of the total defence budget. But the allocation was decreased to 15.57 percent in FY 2007-08 and 15.11 percent in FY 2008-09. In the report, the air force demanded either 25 percent of the total defence budget or a special allocation in the next 10 years.

Most of the budgetary allocation is spent for maintenance, salaries and allowances, supplies and services and instalments of previous purchases. Only 4-6 percent of it is spent for major purchases, the report says. In defence of purchasing new equipment, the report said it was facing tremendous difficulties in playing due role with the aged aircraft.

As of 2009, the force has over 160 planes–fighter, transport and training aircraft–and helicopters, of which 70 percent are aged over 20 years and 18 percent inducted in the last 10 years. The July 2009 report said the air force had planned to set up overhauling plants for the existing F-7 fighter planes and MI helicopters. If two plants are set up in the country, two to three F-7 aircraft and three to four MI choppers could be overhauled each year and will not require sending abroad. The air force had so far overhauled Bell helicopters 65 times and PT-6 planes 76 times at its own maintenance unit. In the two years 2008-2009, five fighter aircraft were overhauled in the country with the help of foreign consultants.

According to the Russian military news network report on 01 December 2010, Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina of Bangladesh Army said the government would purchase a large number of various types of weapons and equipment for the protection of its exclusive economic zone, to participate in UN peacekeeping action. China had been a major arms supplier to Bangladesh, the procurement of most of the weapons may be in the favorable financial conditions or military assistance to China within the framework of supply.

As of late 2010 there were reports that Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group was negotiating with the Bangladesh Air Force for the sale of the JF-17 and the more modern F-10 fighter supply. But as of mid-2012 nothing had emerged on this front, and it appeared that Bangladesh Air Force would not procure the JF-17/FC-1 or J-10. Some observers ( especially in PDF ) suggested that the Chinese would not sell J-10 or JF-17 to an Awami governed Bangladesh, while if the BNP came into power they would scrap all the deals with Russia. Procurement will depend on which party is in power.

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on 05 December 2011 presided at the induction ceremony of surface-to-air missile system and Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre at Kurmitola Air Force Base. The missile system of FM-90 category is a short-range air defence system (SHORADS). Hasina said one squadron F-7BGI fighter planes and some other helicopters are going to be included in the arsenal of the Air Force. Besides, procurement of several transports aircraft is also under consideration.

As of 2012 it was reported that in 2011 China had agreed to a $800 million arms sale, the details of which were made public in late April 2012. It includes 16 (a squadron) F-7 BGI fighter planes and radar equipment. One squadron of stop-gap light fighter Chengdu F-7BGI had been ordered for delivery in 2012. These aircraft were a new variant equipped with advanced avionics, including HOTAS Contol, three MFD display and HUD. The aircraft are equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. These F-7s were ordered to replace the BAF's aging A-5Cs & F-7MBs and act as a 'stop gap'.

This 2011 Chinese deal was said to include three MI-171 helicopters. A total of 6 Mi-35 attack helicopters and 3 Mi-171sh support helicopters were reported to be inducted, without a clear timeline specified.

The existing Mig-29 inventory will be upgraded to Mig-29SMT standard. The air force will also acquire a squadron of Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) to replace the existing L-39 inventory. Another [poorly attested as of early 2012] deal with Russia for about $850 million would supply a squadron of multi-role combat aircraft advanced jet trainers and radars. The Bangladesh Air Force was said to be signing a contract with Russia for 16 MiG-29SMT/M2 or 8 MiG-29SMT ( really? -.- ), one squadron of 16 Yak-130AJT to replace 16 L-39s and one squadron of the single engine Hongdu / Yakovlev L-7 (Yak-152) to replace the ageing fleet of PT-6 trainers. Within two years of receiving these aircraft, the Bangladesh Air Force was to introduce 16 SU-30MK2s.( Its been ages since we got those Yaks,we better get Sukhois soon )

Bangladesh ordered 24 Russian Yak-130 ( its 16,dammit ) light fighter jets worth $800 million in the final quarter of 2013, a Russian newspaper reported 28 January 2014. The deal was paid for with a loan extended by Moscow to the country a year ago, the director of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said in a separate interview published by Kommersant, without disclosing the deal’s price tag. The newspaper said that the sale was worth $800 million, citing unnamed sources in the defense industry. The planes were to be fitted with English-language cockpits and delivery is scheduled to begin in 2015.

The Forces Goal Vision 2030 is intended to enable the Bangladesh Air Force to be one of the most advanced outfits in the region, and to effectively provide a deterrent against the threats posed by neighboring countries.Air Marshal Shah Mohammad Ziaur Rahman, the Chief of Air Staff of the Bangladesh Air Force, discussed the BAF modernization program at the Defense IQ 2011 International Fighter Aircraft Conference in London. The long-term procurement program includes plans to eventually introduce 20-32 4+ generation fighter aircraft. At that time, the aircraft being evaluated were primarily the Mig-29CMT and Lockheed Martin F-16 ( @Basel would be happy now ).The Sukhoi Su-30 and SAAB JAS-39 Gripen were also under consideration. The tiemframe ( its timeframe ) for delievery was 10-15 years, that is, sometime between 2020 and 2025. It is not clear whether this program assumes that any of these aircraft will still be in production, or whether acqusition of used is contemplated.

Bangladesh Air Force received Yakovlev Yak-130 multi-role helicopter and Agustawestland AW139 search and rescue helicopter on 06 December 2015. The Yakovlev Yak-130 is a subsonic two-seat advanced jet trainer and light attack aircraft or lead-in fighter trainer. The AW139 is a 15-seat medium sized twin-engine search and rescue helicopter developed by Italy’s AgustaWestland. Bangladesh had signed a deal with Russian state arms export agency Rosoboronexport to buy 24 Yak-130 trainers ( again its 16,dammit ) developed by the Irkut Corporation. Bangladesh also signed a deal to purchase two AW 139 helicopters, which will be used by the BAF to perform maritime search and rescue (SAR) operations and other utility missions.

Source : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/bangladesh/air-force-modernization.htm

I put my opinions in brackets BTW...

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## ~Phoenix~

<3 this video,especially the 0:55-1:15 part...

Now I seriously wanna be a pilot...
@Mohammed Khaled

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## asad71

~Phoenix~ said:


> *Bangladesh - Air Force Modernization*
> 
> 
> As of mid-1988, the air force inventory included three squadrons of combat aircraft, some of which were probably unserviceable. These squadrons included vintage MiG-29 interceptors supplied by the Soviet Union during the Mujib period. In 1978 China supplied fifteen F-6s (the Chinese version of the Soviet MiG-19) and sixteen A-5s in 1986. The Chinese-supplied fighter inventory in early 1988 totaled two squadrons, or about thirty A-5s and F-6s. Transport aircraft included one An-26 squadron supplied by the Soviets. Helicopters, used in disaster relief and troop transport operations, included thirteen American-made Bell 212s (twin-engine Hueys) and eleven Soviet-supplied Mi-8s.
> 
> The AL government in 1996-2001 purchased eight MiG-29 fighters for the air force. On coming to power in 2001, the BNP-led four-party government brought charges against Hasina and others for corruption in that purchase. In 2007 Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group supplied to Bangladesh 12 F-7BG and 4 FT-7BG two-seater fighters.
> 
> In August 2009 Bangladesh Air Force completed plans to urgently purchase one squadron of fighter trainer aircraft and simulators for fighter planes and helicopters, and set up overhauling plants for the existing F-7 fighter planes and MI series helicopters. It had prepared long-term plans for other major defence purchases by 2021 and beyond to modernise the force. It also was seeking either 10 percent increase in budgetary allocation or special allocation for the next 10 years to achieve the target.
> 
> The report which describes the problems the air force is facing and suggests ways to overcome them, was placed before the parliamentary standing committee on defence ministry on 14 July 009 for discussion. The plans included purchasing of air defence radars and surface-to-air missile systems to protect important establishments of the force, replacement of A-5, FT-5 and F-7 fighter planes and induction of aircraft for airborne early warning, a system used for directing fighters to targets and counter attacks.
> 
> The air force was also seeking to turn Cox’s Bazar into an advanced base to increase the force’s operational capability, approval of an organogram of the Kurmitola base, increase in healthcare facility for the force members and proper steps regarding their salaries and allowances. The air force suggested that the purchases be completed in phases by 2021. After 2021, it wants to begin purchasing aircraft in phases to form three air defence squadrons. An air force squadron typically consists of three or four air units, with a total of 12 to 24 aircraft, depending on the type of aircraft and the air force.
> 
> The Air Force said the budgetary allocation for the air force has been decreased in the last two financial years. The allocation was increased to 20.90 percent of the total defence budget in FY 2005-06 from 18.56 percent in 2004-05. In FY 2006-07, the air force was given 20.97 percent of the total defence budget. But the allocation was decreased to 15.57 percent in FY 2007-08 and 15.11 percent in FY 2008-09. In the report, the air force demanded either 25 percent of the total defence budget or a special allocation in the next 10 years.
> 
> Most of the budgetary allocation is spent for maintenance, salaries and allowances, supplies and services and instalments of previous purchases. Only 4-6 percent of it is spent for major purchases, the report says. In defence of purchasing new equipment, the report said it was facing tremendous difficulties in playing due role with the aged aircraft.
> 
> As of 2009, the force has over 160 planes–fighter, transport and training aircraft–and helicopters, of which 70 percent are aged over 20 years and 18 percent inducted in the last 10 years. The July 2009 report said the air force had planned to set up overhauling plants for the existing F-7 fighter planes and MI helicopters. If two plants are set up in the country, two to three F-7 aircraft and three to four MI choppers could be overhauled each year and will not require sending abroad. The air force had so far overhauled Bell helicopters 65 times and PT-6 planes 76 times at its own maintenance unit. In the two years 2008-2009, five fighter aircraft were overhauled in the country with the help of foreign consultants.
> 
> According to the Russian military news network report on 01 December 2010, Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina of Bangladesh Army said the government would purchase a large number of various types of weapons and equipment for the protection of its exclusive economic zone, to participate in UN peacekeeping action. China had been a major arms supplier to Bangladesh, the procurement of most of the weapons may be in the favorable financial conditions or military assistance to China within the framework of supply.
> 
> As of late 2010 there were reports that Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group was negotiating with the Bangladesh Air Force for the sale of the JF-17 and the more modern F-10 fighter supply. But as of mid-2012 nothing had emerged on this front, and it appeared that Bangladesh Air Force would not procure the JF-17/FC-1 or J-10. Some observers ( especially in PDF ) suggested that the Chinese would not sell J-10 or JF-17 to an Awami governed Bangladesh, while if the BNP came into power they would scrap all the deals with Russia. Procurement will depend on which party is in power.
> 
> Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on 05 December 2011 presided at the induction ceremony of surface-to-air missile system and Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre at Kurmitola Air Force Base. The missile system of FM-90 category is a short-range air defence system (SHORADS). Hasina said one squadron F-7BGI fighter planes and some other helicopters are going to be included in the arsenal of the Air Force. Besides, procurement of several transports aircraft is also under consideration.
> 
> As of 2012 it was reported that in 2011 China had agreed to a $800 million arms sale, the details of which were made public in late April 2012. It includes 16 (a squadron) F-7 BGI fighter planes and radar equipment. One squadron of stop-gap light fighter Chengdu F-7BGI had been ordered for delivery in 2012. These aircraft were a new variant equipped with advanced avionics, including HOTAS Contol, three MFD display and HUD. The aircraft are equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. These F-7s were ordered to replace the BAF's aging A-5Cs & F-7MBs and act as a 'stop gap'.
> 
> This 2011 Chinese deal was said to include three MI-171 helicopters. A total of 6 Mi-35 attack helicopters and 3 Mi-171sh support helicopters were reported to be inducted, without a clear timeline specified.
> 
> The existing Mig-29 inventory will be upgraded to Mig-29SMT standard. The air force will also acquire a squadron of Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) to replace the existing L-39 inventory. Another [poorly attested as of early 2012] deal with Russia for about $850 million would supply a squadron of multi-role combat aircraft advanced jet trainers and radars. The Bangladesh Air Force was said to be signing a contract with Russia for 16 MiG-29SMT/M2 or 8 MiG-29SMT ( really? -.- ), one squadron of 16 Yak-130AJT to replace 16 L-39s and one squadron of the single engine Hongdu / Yakovlev L-7 (Yak-152) to replace the ageing fleet of PT-6 trainers. Within two years of receiving these aircraft, the Bangladesh Air Force was to introduce 16 SU-30MK2s.( Its been ages since we got those Yaks,we better get Sukhois soon )
> 
> Bangladesh ordered 24 Russian Yak-130 ( its 16,dammit ) light fighter jets worth $800 million in the final quarter of 2013, a Russian newspaper reported 28 January 2014. The deal was paid for with a loan extended by Moscow to the country a year ago, the director of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said in a separate interview published by Kommersant, without disclosing the deal’s price tag. The newspaper said that the sale was worth $800 million, citing unnamed sources in the defense industry. The planes were to be fitted with English-language cockpits and delivery is scheduled to begin in 2015.
> 
> The Forces Goal Vision 2030 is intended to enable the Bangladesh Air Force to be one of the most advanced outfits in the region, and to effectively provide a deterrent against the threats posed by neighboring countries.Air Marshal Shah Mohammad Ziaur Rahman, the Chief of Air Staff of the Bangladesh Air Force, discussed the BAF modernization program at the Defense IQ 2011 International Fighter Aircraft Conference in London. The long-term procurement program includes plans to eventually introduce 20-32 4+ generation fighter aircraft. At that time, the aircraft being evaluated were primarily the Mig-29CMT and Lockheed Martin F-16 ( @Basel would be happy now ).The Sukhoi Su-30 and SAAB JAS-39 Gripen were also under consideration. The tiemframe ( its timeframe ) for delievery was 10-15 years, that is, sometime between 2020 and 2025. It is not clear whether this program assumes that any of these aircraft will still be in production, or whether acqusition of used is contemplated.
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force received Yakovlev Yak-130 multi-role helicopter and Agustawestland AW139 search and rescue helicopter on 06 December 2015. The Yakovlev Yak-130 is a subsonic two-seat advanced jet trainer and light attack aircraft or lead-in fighter trainer. The AW139 is a 15-seat medium sized twin-engine search and rescue helicopter developed by Italy’s AgustaWestland. Bangladesh had signed a deal with Russian state arms export agency Rosoboronexport to buy 24 Yak-130 trainers ( again its 16,dammit ) developed by the Irkut Corporation. Bangladesh also signed a deal to purchase two AW 139 helicopters, which will be used by the BAF to perform maritime search and rescue (SAR) operations and other utility missions.
> 
> Source : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/bangladesh/air-force-modernization.htm
> 
> I put my opinions in brackets BTW...




1.The report conveniently forgets to mention that BAF's top fighter, Mig-29 now numbers only two of which one is a dual model trainer. The other six are used to cannibalize parts for these two. Also not mentioned is the fact that with an inventory not deserving a commander above an Air Commodore, BAF is commanded by an Air Chief Marshal - the fattest among his colleagues around the world. Then there is the usual array of Air Marshals and AVMs. All these obviously to keep them from murmuring loud.
2. RAWAMI policy makers believe BD does not need sophisticated offensive eqpt like top fighters, MTBs and modern subs.


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## ~Phoenix~

asad71 said:


> 1.The report conveniently forgets to mention that BAF's top fighter, *Mig-21* now numbers only two of which one is a dual model trainer. The other six are used to cannibalize parts for these two.



MiG-21s were retired back in the 2000s so no one cares about that now...



asad71 said:


> Also not mentioned is the fact that with an inventory not deserving a commander above an Air Commodore, BAF is commanded by an Air Chief Marshal - the fattest among his colleagues around the world. Then there is the usual array of Air Marshals and AVMs. All these obviously to keep them from murmuring loud.
> 2. RAWAMI policy makers believe BD does not need sophisticated offensive eqpt like top fighters, MTBs and modern subs.



The bla bla commanders know much better about whats good for the air force than you so shut up...

Are we fighting a war or surrounded by hostile nations? Don't forget that our military is defence based and as the saying goes "_The best defence is a good offence._" And if you are thinking of a war with India,we have a defence agreement with China and China will be there to protect us from India + India does not have ammunition for more than 15 days of intense combat ( it would never waste its valuable ammunition on us )...And why would India attack their puppet state anyway?
If you are worried about Myanmar,they don't have a proper coast guard and their army wears sandals..
And check this out if you still have doubts...






And once again,our military is defence based...
Thank you...
^_^


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## Aung Zaya

~Phoenix~ said:


> If you are worried about Myanmar,they don't have a proper coast guard and their army wears sandals..
> And check this out if you still have doubts...


LOL... We do have our Coast Guard with 8 FACs and some high speed crafts like Super Dvora Mk 3.. and we have coast police force with some petrol boats.. 
yes.. they didn't wear sandals any more for long.. BTW. we got a member of BGB wearing lungi in last year... Do u mean wearing lungi is better equipped than wearing sandals.?


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## ghost250

a bit old though..
http://www.thedailystar.net/backpage/bgb-rescues-two-myanmar-soldiers-113197


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## bdslph

Baf is almost absolute
The modern fighter we have is yak130 trainer


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## ~Phoenix~

Aung Zaya said:


> LOL... We do have our Coast Guard with 8 FACs and some high speed crafts like Super Dvora Mk 3.. and we have coast police force with some petrol boats..



Wow,you guys actually have a coast guard!
With a bunch of what? Dvora Mk3? Eww,thats too israeli...




And you expect all eight of your this Super Bla Bla Dvora to actually stand the slightest chance against *one Minerva Class corvette *of our coast guard?


Just reminding you about the corvette...

*General characteristics*
Type: Corvette
Displacement: 1,285 tonnes
Length: 87 m (285 ft)
Beam: 10.5 m (34 ft)
Draught: 3.2–4.8 m (10–16 ft)
Propulsion: 2 Diesel Grandi Motori Trieste BM-230.20 DVM outputting 11.000 hp (8.203 kW)
Speed: 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph)
Range: 3,500 nmi (6,500 km; 4,000 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
Complement: 7 officers, 113 men
Sensors and
processing systems:

AA/ASu-Radar Selenia SPS-774 (RAN 10S) E/F Band
1 SMA SPS-728 Navigation radar
Sonar: Raytheon/Elsag DE-1167
Electronic warfare
& decoys:

Fire control: 1 Selenia SPG-75 (RTN 30X) for Albatros and 76mm
Communication: IPN-10 (Mini-SADOC), Link 11
Armament:

1 Otobreda 76 mm
Sea Sparrow or Selenia Aspide in an 8-cell launcher
6 × 324mm TLS ASW torpedoes
4 heavy machine guns
( The arament is altered though )


Minerva Class Corvette in Bangladesh Coast Guard : 4

CGS Syed Nazrul (PL 71)
CGS Tajuddin (PL 72)
CGS Mansoor Ali (PL 73)
CGS Kamruzzaman (PL 74)








1)CGS Syed Nazrul (PL 71)










2)CGS Tajuddin (PL 72)










3)CGS Mansoor Ali (PL 73)







4)CGS Kamruzzaman (PL 74)




btw,we should take this topic to the navy thread...

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## ~Phoenix~

Aung Zaya said:


> yes.. they didn't wear sandals any more for long.. BTW. we got a member of BGB wearing lungi in last year... Do u mean wearing lungi is better equipped than wearing sandals.?



Oh,finally you guys have the money to buy proper boots...Now stop recruiting children and killing your own civillians,if you can...

BTW,do you have any picture of BGB wearing lungis as proof? Our paramilitary forces are equipped,even the 8 million sized Ansar have their uniform....

Our BGB

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## Aung Zaya

~Phoenix~ said:


> Wow,you guys actually have a coast guard!
> With a bunch of what? Dvora Mk3? Eww,thats too israeli...
> View attachment 318009
> 
> And you expect all eight of your this Super Bla Bla *Dvora to actually stand the slightest chance against one Minerva Class corvette of our *coast guard?
> 
> 
> Just reminding you about the corvette...
> 
> *General characteristics*
> Type: Corvette
> Displacement: 1,285 tonnes
> Length: 87 m (285 ft)
> Beam: 10.5 m (34 ft)
> Draught: 3.2–4.8 m (10–16 ft)
> Propulsion: 2 Diesel Grandi Motori Trieste BM-230.20 DVM outputting 11.000 hp (8.203 kW)
> Speed: 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph)
> Range: 3,500 nmi (6,500 km; 4,000 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
> Complement: 7 officers, 113 men
> Sensors and
> processing systems:
> 
> AA/ASu-Radar Selenia SPS-774 (RAN 10S) E/F Band
> 1 SMA SPS-728 Navigation radar
> Sonar: Raytheon/Elsag DE-1167
> Electronic warfare
> & decoys:
> 
> Fire control: 1 Selenia SPG-75 (RTN 30X) for Albatros and 76mm
> Communication: IPN-10 (Mini-SADOC), Link 11
> Armament:
> 
> 1 Otobreda 76 mm
> Sea Sparrow or Selenia Aspide in an 8-cell launcher
> 6 × 324mm TLS ASW torpedoes
> 4 heavy machine guns
> ( The arament is altered though )
> 
> 
> Minerva Class Corvette in Bangladesh Coast Guard : 4
> 
> CGS Syed Nazrul (PL 71)
> CGS Tajuddin (PL 72)
> CGS Mansoor Ali (PL 73)
> CGS Kamruzzaman (PL 74)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1)CGS Syed Nazrul (PL 71)
> View attachment 318018
> View attachment 318019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2)CGS Tajuddin (PL 72)
> View attachment 318021
> View attachment 318022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3)CGS Mansoor Ali (PL 73)
> View attachment 318024
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4)CGS Kamruzzaman (PL 74)
> 
> 
> View attachment 318026
> 
> btw,we should take this topic to the navy thread...


well.. actually Super Dvora is different role with ur covette.. super dvora is just small fast petrol boat with the state-of-art thrust vectoring.. but in the case of one corvette Vs eight Dvora , we have hight chance to be disable ur corvette.. one Dvora's typhoon can carry up to 4 spike-er missiles.. ur corvette has just very low survial rate from from total 32 Spike-ER..




Plus some of this class in our CG can kick ur corvette..








~Phoenix~ said:


> Oh,finally you guys have the money to buy proper boots...Now stop recruiting children and killing your own civillians,if you can...
> 
> BTW,do you have any picture of BGB wearing lungis as proof? Our paramilitary forces are equipped,even the 8 million sized Ansar have their uniform....
> 
> Our BGB
> View attachment 318035
> View attachment 318031
> View attachment 318033
> View attachment 318034


wake up dude..!! dictatorship was gone since 2008.. even Noble Prize winner Daw Aung San Su Kyi is serving as state counsellor now.. lol

i'm sure u guy didn't want to see those pic.. use google in ur own..

i think even our BGF is a lot better eqiuped than ur BGB..
check some..


----------



## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Wow,you guys actually have a coast guard!
> With a bunch of what? Dvora Mk3? Eww,thats too israeli...
> View attachment 318009
> 
> And you expect all eight of your this Super Bla Bla Dvora to actually stand the slightest chance against *one Minerva Class corvette *of our coast guard?
> 
> 
> Just reminding you about the corvette...
> 
> *General characteristics*
> Type: Corvette
> Displacement: 1,285 tonnes
> Length: 87 m (285 ft)
> Beam: 10.5 m (34 ft)
> Draught: 3.2–4.8 m (10–16 ft)
> Propulsion: 2 Diesel Grandi Motori Trieste BM-230.20 DVM outputting 11.000 hp (8.203 kW)
> Speed: 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph)
> Range: 3,500 nmi (6,500 km; 4,000 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
> Complement: 7 officers, 113 men
> Sensors and
> processing systems:
> 
> AA/ASu-Radar Selenia SPS-774 (RAN 10S) E/F Band
> 1 SMA SPS-728 Navigation radar
> Sonar: Raytheon/Elsag DE-1167
> Electronic warfare
> & decoys:
> 
> Fire control: 1 Selenia SPG-75 (RTN 30X) for Albatros and 76mm
> Communication: IPN-10 (Mini-SADOC), Link 11
> Armament:
> 
> 1 Otobreda 76 mm
> Sea Sparrow or Selenia Aspide in an 8-cell launcher
> 6 × 324mm TLS ASW torpedoes
> 4 heavy machine guns
> ( The arament is altered though )
> 
> 
> Minerva Class Corvette in Bangladesh Coast Guard : 4
> 
> CGS Syed Nazrul (PL 71)
> CGS Tajuddin (PL 72)
> CGS Mansoor Ali (PL 73)
> CGS Kamruzzaman (PL 74)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1)CGS Syed Nazrul (PL 71)
> View attachment 318018
> View attachment 318019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2)CGS Tajuddin (PL 72)
> View attachment 318021
> View attachment 318022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3)CGS Mansoor Ali (PL 73)
> View attachment 318024
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4)CGS Kamruzzaman (PL 74)
> 
> 
> View attachment 318026
> 
> btw,we should take this topic to the navy thread...


Let's not show off and keep the sportsmanship like conduct.



Aung Zaya said:


> well.. actually Super Dvora is different role with ur covette.. super dvora is just small fast petrol boat with the state-of-art thrust vectoring.. but in the case of one corvette Vs eight Dvora , we have hight chance to be disable ur corvette.. one Dvora's typhoon can carry up to 4 spike-er missiles.. ur corvette has just very low survial rate from from total 32 Spike-ER..
> View attachment 318144
> 
> Plus some of this class in our CG can kick ur corvette..
> 
> View attachment 318146
> 
> 
> 
> wake up dude..!! dictatorship was gone since 2008.. even Noble Prize winner Daw Aung San Su Kyi is serving as state counsellor now.. lol
> 
> i'm sure u guy didn't want to see those pic.. use google in ur own..
> 
> i think even our BGF is a lot better eqiuped than ur BGB..
> check some..
> View attachment 318150
> 
> View attachment 318151
> 
> View attachment 318154
> 
> View attachment 318155


You talk as if the corvette our coast guard have are some dummy practice unit. Anyways. The speed boat of your coast guards are good. I have read good reviews about them. So thumbs up for that. Also why is your border guards so heavily militarised. Its like they are some commando units. Your army soldiers are not this equipped as shown in the pic. I am talking about infantry men


----------



## Aung Zaya

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Let's not show off and keep the sportsmanship like conduct.
> 
> 
> You talk as if the corvette our coast guard have are some dummy practice unit. Anyways. The speed boat of your coast guards are good. I have read good reviews about them. So thumbs up for that. Also why is your border guards so heavily militarised. Its like they are some commando units. Your army soldiers are not this equipped as shown in the pic. I am talking about infantry men


l'm not underestimating ur corvette in this case. lets talk in general.. ur corvette is not heavily armed due to CG purpose.. u cant use ASM for this a very small boat running with 50 knots.. and
Spike-ER can reached up 8000M which out of ur HMG range.. futhermore ur corvette has no CIWS.. that's why i said ur ship has low survival rate versus with 8 Super Dvora.. even if 4 boats , there is no chance to win ur corvette.. 

no they are just infantry men.. not commando..
they are heavily armed coz of insurgents in bordor region..see here.. just BGF infantry..







and u may used to see old uniform of our army.. dude.. they are changing now.. in a few year., the whole army will be like this uniform..i showed our BGF as ur guy showed me ur BGB pic..




sry for off topic post.. if u want to talk more , mention in another thread..!!


----------



## ~Phoenix~

Aung Zaya said:


> wake up dude..!! dictatorship was gone since 2008.. even Noble Prize winner Daw Aung San Su Kyi is serving as state counsellor now.. lol
> 
> i'm sure u guy didn't want to see those pic.. use google in ur own..
> 
> i think even our BGF is a lot better eqiuped than ur BGB..
> check some..



Yellow Part - Why don't you send it? I'm pretty sure that *if *some members did wear it,they would lose their jobs by now for their lack of discipline...( not wearing proper uniform )

Your sooooo powerful BGF consists of how many personnel? And how many of them are actually soldiers and not insurgents? And 90% of your BGF are insurgents,do they know how to properly use a rifle like a professional soldier?










Still using children ? Pfft..



And how much expeirence does your BGF have? They were formed in 2009..And that was 7 years ago....Our BGB was formed back in 1795..They may have changed name a thousand times,but they have carried one name all through the time - *"The Vigilant Sentinels of the National Frontier". 

BGB's history -
Ramgarh Local Battalion (1795–1861)*
Served under East India Company.
*Frontier Guards (1861–1891)*
Served under British India.
*Bengal Military Police (1891–1919)*
Served under British India.They also fought in the *First World War*.
*Eastern Frontier Rifles (1920–1947)*
Served under British India.They fought in the *Second World War *and fought for the allies during the Burma Campaign,and stopped Japanese advance. ( Myanmar heavily owes us for it )
*East Pakistan Rifles (1947–1971)*
Served under Pakistan.They formed the core of our troops during the 1971 war.
*Bangladesh Rifles (Bangladesh Liberation War, 1971–2010)*
Served under newly independent Bangladesh.The EPR was renamed to Bangladesh Rifles ( BDR ).
*Border Guard Bangladesh (2010–onward)*
Serves under Bangladesh.They were renamed to Border Guard Bangladesh after the 2009 BDR mutiny and Pilkhana massacre.
*

The list of Battles and wars BDR participated are as follows:

* First Anglo-Burmese War (1824-1826) - as Ramgarh Local Rifles
* Second Anglo-Burmese War (1852-1853) - as Ramgarh Local Rifles
* Third Anglo-Burmese War (1885-1886) - as Frontier Guards
* Anglo-Kuki or Anglo-Manipur War (1891) - as Bengal Military Police
* Second World War - Burma Campaign (1943-44) - as Eastern Frontier Rifles
* First Indo-Pak War (1948) - as East Pakistan Rifles ( EPR )
* Second Indo-Pak War (1965) - as East Pakistan Rifles ( EPR )
* Bangladesh Liberation War (1971) - as Bangladesh Rifles ( BDR )
* Chittagong Hill Tracts Counter-Insurgency War (1976-1997) - as Bangladesh Rifles ( BDR )
* 2001 Indian-Bangladeshi border conflict - as Bangladesh Rifles ( BDR )
* 2008-2009 Bangladesh-Myanmar border conflicts - as Bangladesh Rifles ( BDR )
* BDR mutiny and Pilkhana massacre - as loyal ones of the Bangladesh Rifles ( BDR )
* 2014 Bangladeshi-Myanmar border skirmish - as Border Guards Bangladesh ( BGB )
*
And what experience does your BGF have other than fighting lightly armed ethnic tribes?

And about those pictures?
I like the helmet from picture one...Looks stylish...( They look like a special force than a frontier defence force )

Second picture looks more like a VIP guard force bruh...We have SSF ( Special Security Force ) for that..









Third picture seems okay and keep it up.
The fourth picture is kinda funny,the guy is posing like a hero while the other guy is aiming is machine gun at some threat or whatever ( Acting like a hero while there maybe trouble around )



Aung Zaya said:


> well.. actually Super Dvora is different role with ur covette.. super dvora is just small fast petrol boat with the state-of-art thrust vectoring.. but in the case of one corvette Vs eight Dvora , we have hight chance to be disable ur corvette.. one Dvora's typhoon can carry up to 4 spike-er missiles.. ur corvette has just very low survial rate from from total 32 Spike-ER..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus some of this class in our CG can kick ur corvette..



Sure,but our corvette will out range your patrol boat ( long range AShMs )
A corvette is heavily armed and armored compared to a FAC...
BTW,those type of FACs should be in your navy,not the CG




Aung Zaya said:


> l'm not underestimating ur corvette in this case. lets talk in general.. ur corvette is not heavily armed due to CG purpose.. u cant use ASM for this a very small boat running with 50 knots.. and
> Spike-ER can reached up *8000M* which out of ur HMG range.. futhermore ur corvette has no CIWS.. that's why i said ur ship has low survival rate versus with 8 Super Dvora.. even if 4 boats , there is no chance to win ur corvette..



I think you forgot that during wartime,our coast guard becomes part of the navy...so during a real show,our corvette will be heavily armed and will have CIWS or whatever..It can fire torphedos,can be fitted with AShMs... An Otomat Mk 2 block IV ( which the Italian corvette is most suited to ) has a range of *200000M* and can perform various evasive manuevers,and also it maybe will be fitted with C-802A which also has a range of *200000M*,so which is better? 8km range or 200+km range? You choose..



Aung Zaya said:


> no they are just infantry men.. not commando..
> they are heavily armed coz of insurgents in bordor region..see here.. just BGF infantry..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and u may used to see old uniform of our army.. dude.. they are changing now.. in a few year., the whole army will be like this uniform..i showed our BGF as ur guy showed me ur BGB pic..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sry for off topic post.. if u want to talk more , mention in another thread..!!



Why arent you guys trying to create a peace agreement? The longer fighting goes on,the more damage happens to the country..


BTW,I think you made a thread for open discussion of both of our countries...mention me in there in your reply...

Anyways,back to topic...





What is the name of the 4 missiles under the wings? Looks like AGM-114 hellfire...

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## syed1

20mb image hosting

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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> l'm not underestimating ur corvette in this case. lets talk in general.. ur corvette is not heavily armed due to CG purpose.. u cant use ASM for this a very small boat running with 50 knots.. and
> Spike-ER can reached up 8000M which out of ur HMG range.. futhermore ur corvette has no CIWS.. that's why i said ur ship has low survival rate versus with 8 Super Dvora.. even if 4 boats , there is no chance to win ur corvette..
> 
> no they are just infantry men.. not commando..
> they are heavily armed coz of insurgents in bordor region..see here.. just BGF infantry..
> 
> View attachment 318289
> 
> 
> and u may used to see old uniform of our army.. dude.. they are changing now.. in a few year., the whole army will be like this uniform..i showed our BGF as ur guy showed me ur BGB pic..
> View attachment 318290
> 
> sry for off topic post.. if u want to talk more , mention in another thread..!!


Its admittedly devoid of any tooth. Yes. But it's main purpose is to fight of insurgents, kidnappers, pirates. In war time you can expect the situation to change and these ships fitted back to their original or at least custom weaponry setup. 

Oh okay. So same like those modern equipments all armies are adopting nowadays. Cool. 

People please for gods sake. Keep the thread to the topic. Post planes and etc but not other branches of military and rants related to em. Thanks.

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## Aung Zaya

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yellow Part - Why don't you send it? I'm pretty sure that *if *some members did wear it,they would lose their jobs by now for their lack of discipline...( not wearing proper uniform )





~Phoenix~ said:


> Yellow Part - Why don't you send it? I'm pretty sure that *if *some members did wear it,they would lose their jobs by now for their lack of discipline...( not wearing proper uniform )


we found this BGB in lungi when we arrested him.. Now happy..?






~Phoenix~ said:


> Your sooooo powerful BGF consists of how many personnel


Thousands..!!!


~Phoenix~ said:


> And how many of them are actually soldiers and not insurgents? And 90% of your BGF are insurgents,do they know how to properly use a rifle like a professional soldier?


100% are actually soldiers.. dude.. their professional skill may be more than ur BGB.. they have own training school and also APCs , Hanvee and even UCAV.. 



~Phoenix~ said:


> like the helmet from picture one...Looks stylish...( They look like a special force than a frontier defence force )


nope.. that helmat is standard issue for BGF.. u can see in second last pic..



~Phoenix~ said:


> Second picture looks more like a VIP guard force bruh...We have SSF ( Special Security Force ) for that..


that's BGF infantry.. nope SF.. BGF commnado is here.. there is no VIP gurad force in BGF..







~Phoenix~ said:


> Sure,but our corvette will out range your patrol boat ( long range AShMs )
> A corvette is heavily armed and armored compared to a FAC...
> BTW,those type of FACs should be in your navy,not the CG


yes.. currently 1 of this class in navy.. planned to build 6 or 8.. more are building for navy..


~Phoenix~ said:


> think you forgot that during wartime,our coast guard becomes part of the navy...so during a real show,our corvette will be heavily armed and will have CIWS or whatever..It can fire torphedos,can be fitted with AShMs... An Otomat Mk 2 block IV ( which the Italian corvette is most suited to ) has a range of *200000M* and can perform various evasive manuevers,and also it maybe will be fitted with C-802A which also has a range of *200000M*,so which is better? 8km range or 200+km range? You choose..


i'm talking about in case of 1 corvette vs 8 boats as u said.. during war time ,do u think we also send only this boat to the war..?



~Phoenix~ said:


> The fourth picture is kinda funny,the guy is posing like a hero while the other guy is aiming is machine gun at some threat or whatever ( Acting like a hero while there maybe trouble around


this one is taking in preparing time to go petrol.. the other man is checking MG..
like ur SF.. what can he see without removal of len cover.. ? or just posing for good photo..?




i'm done.. too many off topic here.. sry..

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> we found this BGB in lungi when we arrested him.. Now happy..?
> View attachment 318344
> 
> 
> Thousands..!!!
> 
> 100% are actually soldiers.. dude.. their professional skill may be more than ur BGB.. they have own training school and also APCs , Hanvee and even UCAV..
> 
> 
> nope.. that helmat is standard issue for BGF.. u can see in second last pic..
> 
> 
> that's BGF infantry.. nope SF.. BGF commnado is here.. there is no VIP gurad force in BGF..
> View attachment 318347
> 
> 
> 
> yes.. currently 1 of this class in navy.. planned to build 6 or 8.. more are building for navy..
> 
> i'm talking about in case of 1 corvette vs 8 boats as u said.. during war time ,do u think we also send only this boat to the war..?
> 
> 
> this one is taking in preparing time to go petrol.. the other man is checking MG..
> like ur SF.. what can he see without removal of len cover.. ? or just posing for good photo..?
> View attachment 318350
> 
> i'm done.. too many off topic here.. sry..



why are you posting burmese soldier in BD airforce thread. Go and create a thread in World Military section in main forum.


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## Nike

Bangladesh is not operator of Hellfire

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## Bilal9

madokafc said:


> Bangladesh is not operator of Hellfire



True.

It seems to be a Chinese HJ-10 variant which is a Hellfire derivative (probably the common air-launched ATGM AKD-10).

These missiles are not really super secret technology.....


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> True.
> 
> It seems to be a Chinese HJ-10 variant which is a Hellfire derivative (probably the common air-launched ATGM AKD-10).
> 
> These missiles are not really super secret technology.....


You say it like we get to buy it at local Walmart. XD


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## bigbossman

Rapid Action Battalion 




VIP protection unit




Bangladesh Police Swat

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## ~Phoenix~

madokafc said:


> Bangladesh is not operator of Hellfire


I know,but what missile was that K-8 carrying anyway?



Aung Zaya said:


> Thousands..!!!



Ours consist of a hundred thousand ^_^



Aung Zaya said:


> 100% are actually soldiers.. dude.. their professional skill may be more than ur BGB.. they have own training school and also APCs , Hanvee and even UCAV..



We have around ten training schools for our BGB,and also APCs,a patrol boat ( BGB Shahjalal ) and helicopters...

BGF has UCAVs while army doesnt ? Find somehere else to troll?




Aung Zaya said:


> i'm talking about in case of 1 corvette vs 8 boats as u said.. during war time ,do u think we also send only this boat to the war..?



And you thought we would bring only our corvette...

BTW,reply here - https://defence.pk/threads/open-discussion-bangladesh-and-myanmar-armed-force.353007/


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## alaungphaya

TopCat said:


> why are you posting burmese soldier in BD airforce thread. Go and create a thread in World Military section in main forum.



Don't call us out then. Idiot.

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## ~Phoenix~

bigbossman said:


> Rapid Action Battalion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VIP protection unit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Police Swat



How about making a thread about our Police and other Paramimitary Forces? This Air Force thread is becoming polluted with off topic posts...

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## Bilal9

~Phoenix~ said:


> How about making a thread about our Police and other Paramimitary Forces? This Air Force thread is becoming polluted with off topic posts...



Very good idea. Police, SWAT, RAB, SSF (vip protection) could also go in there.

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## TopCat

alaungphaya said:


> Don't call us out then. Idiot.


Who called you out idiot? Uncivilized monkey... Go and pick bananas instead of coming here for civilized discussion. Where did you study and how you got raised? Ask you parents to learn parenting before bad mouthing here.

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## alaungphaya

TopCat said:


> Who called you out idiot? Uncivilized monkey... Go and pick bananas instead of coming here for civilized discussion. Where did you study and how you got raised? Ask you parents to learn parenting before bad mouthing here.



The small brown animal that smells of s*** and p*** just called me a monkey.  How cute. I think I've been wrong about you bongos - I think you would make great pets. I would keep one of you as a pet but I know your owner India would get jealous. And it'll take more than your 8 MiG-29's to break out of your cage.

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## Nabil365

We should open a thread where we can Compare Bangladeshi defence forces and Myanmar defence forces?Maybe even discuss in fields both countries can work tgt in terms economics,politics,etc?But I certainly dont want uncivilised monkeys like alaungphaya.Aungzaya and other burmese brothers are welcome.What you think about it guys?

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## kobiraaz

Nabil365 said:


> We should open a thread where we can Compare Bangladeshi defence forces and Myanmar defence forces?Maybe even discuss in fields both countries can work tgt in terms economics,politics,etc?But I certainly dont want uncivilised monkeys like alaungphaya.Aungzaya and other burmese brothers are welcome.What you think about it guys?



myanmar is an insignificant nation. last time when sent frigates at their intrusion they ran back with tails between their legs. why waste time?

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## TopCat

alaungphaya said:


> The small brown animal that smells of s*** and p*** just called me a monkey.  How cute. I think I've been wrong about you bongos - I think you would make great pets. I would keep one of you as a pet but I know your owner India would get jealous. And it'll take more than your 8 MiG-29's to break out of your cage.


that shows your level of upbringing and your social and cultural development. How far is Burma from Andaman Nicobar Island? How far you guys evolved since those tribes?

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## Major d1

Mayanmar ?? What about NAF WAR ?


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## alaungphaya

TopCat said:


> that shows your level of upbringing and your social and cultural development. How far is Burma from Andaman Nicobar Island? How far you guys evolved since those tribes?


We're brought up to be more socially and culturally developed than to marry our cousins so I guess we win.

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## Nabil365

alaungphaya said:


> We're brought up to be more socially and culturally developed than to marry our cousins so I guess we win.



Yes therefore you see a high number of rapes by your army officials and hiring of kids for army.
It is a culture in Myanmar.You guys are really developed.
:laughcry

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## Michael Corleone

@aungzaya @alaungphaya @Phoenix stop spamming the thread with unrelated topics fools. Seriously calm your tits and use this as the air force thread alone.

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## syed1

upload gambar



screengrab

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## syed1

Hongdu JL-8/K-8W 



upload img



pic upload

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## asad71



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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> @Phoenix



You mentioned someone else not me...My name is ~Phoenix~ not Phoenix.I have the stylish sign ~

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> You mentioned someone else not me...My name is ~Phoenix~ not Phoenix.I have the stylish sign ~
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 321375


This mig's Bengali? What are all those? Flame sparks or some accident? From the engine? :0

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> This mig's Bengali? What are all those? Flame sparks or some accident? From the engine? :0



You expected the MiG-29 to be British then?

The flame sparks are from the after-burners...

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> You expected the MiG-29 to be British then?
> 
> The flame sparks are from the after-burners...


Myanmar migs have the same color dude. Oh well.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Myanmar migs have the same color dude. Oh well.



Our MiG-29 camo used to be the best,but those Burmese douches stole it...

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## Bilal9

~Phoenix~ said:


> You expected the MiG-29 to be British then?
> 
> The flame sparks are from the after-burners...



Those sparks look like metal sparks to me. He either hit the tail or the exhaust afterburner can edges somehow.

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## ~Phoenix~

Bilal9 said:


> Those sparks look like metal sparks to me. He either hit the tail or the exhaust afterburner can edges somehow.



Maybe,who knows?


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## syed1

host image

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Those sparks look like metal sparks to me. He either hit the tail or the exhaust afterburner can edges somehow.


If he did that... million dollar damage TBH and can't or shouldn't fly it next time unless check and cleared.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> If he did that... million dollar damage TBH and can't or shouldn't fly it next time unless check and cleared.



Dang,thats expensive...


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## kobiraaz

Bilal9 said:


> Those sparks look like metal sparks to me. He either hit the tail or the exhaust afterburner can edges somehow.





~Phoenix~ said:


> Dang,thats expensive...
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yes spark but not from friction but burnt fuel residues..


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## TopCat

kobiraaz said:


> Yes spark but not from friction but burnt fuel residues..


Some idiot lit the after burner while on the ground

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## ~Phoenix~

TopCat said:


> Some idiot lit the after burner while on the ground



Jeez,don't blame on the pilot....Hes a human,and humans make mistakes,right? Unless you are an alien tho -.-


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Some idiot lit the after burner while on the ground


Maybe it's a takeoff photo... Haven't you seen full afterburner before takeoff?


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## ~Phoenix~

THE THING EVERYONE WANTS TO SCREAM TO BOTH GOVERNMENT AND GOD


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## Michael Corleone

I fear we will buy some decent amount of fourth gen aircraft only to see more fifth gen aircraft on the market.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I fear we will buy some decent amount of fourth gen aircraft only to see more fifth gen aircraft on the market.



I know,but atleast 4th Generation birds are better than a bunch of rusty ancient F-7s...





Happy Friendship Day,Everyone! ( or Night but whatever )
If I am too lazy to give choclates to everyone,I'll tell BAF to do it for me lolz

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## monitor




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## ~Phoenix~



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## ~Phoenix~



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## Homo Sapiens

http://samorikbisoy.blogspot.com/2016/08/Bd-Airforce-Power-F7-Aircraft.html
* বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনির সক্ষমতা। *
6 days ago


 বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তে এফ-৭ সিরিজের যুদ্ধবিমান গুলো নিয়ে আমরা অনেকেই নাক কুঁচকাই বলা চলে। অনেকে তাচ্ছিল্য করে আদিম যুগের মুড়ির টিন ও বলে। তবে বাস্তবতা কিন্তু ভিন্ন,, মিগ-২১ এর চীনা লাইসেন্সড ভার্সন এই এফ-৭ কিন্তু এখনো অনেক দেশের বিমানবাহিনীতে সার্ভিস দিয়ে চলেছে। আজ একটু আলোচনা করবো কি রয়েছে আমাদের এফ-৭ গুলোয় এবং এর দ্বারা কি কি করা সম্ভব।

বর্তমানে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনী তে ৩৪ টি Chengdu F-7 BGI, BG, MB যুদ্ধবিমান সার্ভিস দিচ্ছে যার ভেতর ১৬ টি F-7BGI, F-7/Mig-21 তৃতীয় প্রজন্মের যুদ্ধবিমান হলেও F-7BGI কিন্তু 3.5++ প্রজন্মের যুদ্ধবিমান,, কারন এর কাঠামো একই থাকলেও ভেতরের প্রায় সব কিছুই আপগ্রেডেড। মিগ-২১/এফ-৭ উভয় সিরিজের ই সবথেকে উন্নত বিমান এটি। F-7BGI এর রয়েছে এক্স-ব্যান্ড KLJ-6F ফায়ার কন্ট্রোল রাডার, যার রেঞ্জ ৮৬+ কিঃমিঃ যা বিভিআর রেঞ্জের কাছাকাছি। এই রাডার টি একই সাথে ৬ টি টার্গেট ট্রেক ও একইসময় ২ টিতে মিসাইল ফায়ার করতে সক্ষম। এছাড়াও অত্যাধুনিক হেল্মেট মাউন্টেড সাইট ও হেডস-আপ ডিসপ্লে যার ফলে অনেক তথ্য হেলমেটেই পেয়ে যায় ফলে এট্যাকে যেতে অনেক এডভান্টেজ পাওয়া যায় [ কিন্তু এই হেল্মেট BAF এর নেই দাম বেশি হবার কারনে]। F-7BGI এর রয়েছে সম্পূর্ণ গ্লাস-ককপিট, ককপিটে রয়েছে ৩ টি মাল্টিফানশনাল ডিসপ্লে ও HOTAS কন্ট্রল স্টিক, যার ফলে একদিকে অধিক তথ্য বিশ্লেষণ ও সহ কন্ট্রোল স্টিকের মাধ্যমেই অনেক কাজ সম্পন্ন করা যায়। এছাড়া BGI তে ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে ৮২ নট থ্রাস্ট উৎপাদনে সক্ষম WP-14 ইঞ্জিন যা একে ম্যাক-২.২ গতি এনে দিয়েছে। F-7BGI এর কাঠামো আগের ভার্সন এর মত হলেও এর কিন্তু উইংস ও টেইল সেকশন এ কিছুটা পরিবর্তন আনা হয়েছে ডিজাইনে, এর ফলে BGI এর এঙ্গেল অফ টার্ন, ম্যানুভারিটি বাড়িয়ে তুলেছে। BGI এর হার্ডপয়েন্ট কিন্তু আবার ৭ টি, এই হার্ডপয়েন্ট গুলোয় মোট ৩০০ কেজি সমপরিমাণ এয়ার-টু-এয়ার মিসাইল, লেজার গাইডেড বম্ব, জিপিএস বম্ব সহ ফুয়েল ট্যাংক ক্যারি করা যায়। শুধু তাই নয় F-7BGI C-704 AShM ও বহন করতে সক্ষম। সুতরাং বুঝিতেই পারছেন F-7BGI কোন ফেলনা জিনিশ নয়। আর এফ-৭এমবি গুলো অনেক বেশি পুরনো হবার ফলে এগুলো কে শুধুমাত্র ট্রেইনিং এই ব্যবহার করা হয় এখন।

এবার আসি F-7BG প্রসঙ্গে, এটি মূলত F7MG এর বাংলাদেশী ভার্সন,, এই ভার্সন টি অস্ত্র বহনের পাশাপাশি উইংস এ Reconnaissance Pod ও ক্যারি করতে পারে। এছাড়া এই ভার্সন টিকে আপগ্রেড করে এতে ইতালির তৈরি Grifo-Mk-II রাডার সংযোজিত করা হয়েছে।

★★★ এবার আসি মূল কথায়,, এই এয়ারক্রাফট গুলোকে নিয়ে কি করা যেতে পারে....
সাধারণত এফ-৭ গুলোকে ইন্টারসেপ্টর ও গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক রোলেই ব্যবহার করা হয়, যদিয়োবা আকাশ যুদ্ধে বা এয়ার টু এয়ার ফাইটে F-BGI ভালো করার সম্ভাবনা অনেক রয়েছে। যেহেতু আমরা জাতীগত এবং সাংবিধানিক ভাবে ডিফেন্সিভ তাই কেউ যদি আমাদের উপর আক্রমণ করে তবে এই সামান্য এয়ার পাওয়ার নিয়ে আমরা যা করতে পারি তা হলো...

আমরা ৮ টি মিগ কে ৪ টি গ্রুপে ভাগ করে প্রতি ২ টি মিগের সাথে ৪ টি করে F-7BGI ও ৩ টি করে BG যুক্ত করতে পারি, এছাড়া ১৬ টি ইয়াক-১৩০ যেহেতু সল্প পরিসরে যুদ্ধ করতে সক্ষম তাই সেগুলো ও এর সাথে যুক্ত করলে শত্রু বাহিনীর উপর গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক করা ও স্কোয়াড্রন এর এয়ারক্রাফট গুলোকে কাভার দেয়া সম্ভব হবে শত্রু ফাইটার হতে। এছাড়া AN-32 বম্বার গুলোকে BGI দিয়ে এসকট করা যাবে যা বম্বিং করে নিরাপদে ব্যেসে ফেরত আসতে সহায়তা করবে কিছুটা।

আপাতত এর চাইতে বেশি কিছু করা আমাদের সম্ভব না আমাদের বিমান বাহিনী নিয়ে। তবে আশার কথা এই যে ২০২১ সালের স্বাধীনতার ৫০ বছর পূর্তিতে বিমান বাহিনীর জন্য এবং আমাদের জন্য অনেকটা বড় সুখবর পাবার প্রত্যাশা রয়েছে যার ইংগিত এরি মধ্য আমরা পেয়েছি প্রধানমন্ত্রীর বক্তব্যে ও বিভিন্ন মাধ্যম থেকে। (আধুনিক সমরাস্ত্র)



Bangladesh air forces capabilities.
6 days ago
F-7 Aircraft, Bd Air force, Bangladesh Airforce air craft
F-7 series at Bangladesh Air Force fighter aircraft with many of the nose called kumcakai. Many primitive covering tin, and to disparage. But the reality is different ,, but the MiG-21 and F-7 Chinese licensed version, but still with a lot of service in the Air Force said. Today there will be a discussion by our F-7 from invading and what can be done.

Our air force is currently on the 34 Chengdu F-7 BGI, BG, MB fighter is service through which 16 F-7BGI, F-7 / Mig-21, but the third-generation fighter aircraft F-7BGI ,, but because of the 3.5 generation ++ almost everything inside the same structure, but upgraded. MiG-21 / F-7 is the most advanced aircraft in both series. F-7BGI of the X-band radar KLJ-6F Fire Control, which ranges around 86+ km range, which is very near to BVR. This is the same radar to track and target 6 at the same time able to fire missiles at two. Helmet also mounted sophisticated sites and heads-up display, allowing the display to be getting a lot of information as a result of helametei etyake advantage is to go [but this is more than the cost of BAF helmet Because]. There's also a full glass-cockpit F-7BGI, the cockpit has a 3 maltifunctional display and HOTAS control stick, allowing one to analyze more data and a lot of the work can be done with the control stick. BGI has been used on the WP-14 engine, which is capable of producing 8 knots thrust it into the Mac has 22 speeds. While earlier versions of the F-7BGI structure of the wings and the tail section, but slightly altered design, the angle of the turn of BGI, maneuverity has increased. BGI's hardapoint is 7, but again, this hardpoint from invading the equivalent of a total of 300 kg of air-to-air missiles, laser guided bomb, bomb, including GPS Carey is the fuel tank. Not only F-7BGI C-704 AShM and able to carry. So, thing you can not throw away any of the F-7BGI. And a lot of the older F-7 MB only use for training purpose now.

In the context of the F-7BG come, it's basically a Bangladeshi version of F7MG ,, this version, as well as carrying weapons in the wings, and Carrie could Reconnaissance Pod. The last upgrade to this version of the Italian Grifo-Mk-II radar has been added.

I go into the aircraft, with the key words ★★★ ,, what can be done ....
F-7 space intercept and ground attack usually is used rolei, yadiyoba air or air-to-air flight F-BGI has a lot of potential to do well. Defensive racial and constitutional way we know if someone attacks us, we can do this is to get a little air ...

We have groups of 4 to 8 MiG-K with two mig-29 4 or 3 F-7BG, and the F-7BGI can add BG, -130, whereas the low range Yak-16 is able to connect with them and the enemy Ground attack on troops and squadrons of fighter aircraft of the enemy will be possible to cover space. The AN-32 bombers in the bombing, which ones can be safely escort with BGI return to base will help a little bit.

Now more than possible for us to bring our air force. However, I hope that the 50 anniversary of independence in 2021 for the Air Force, and a lot of good news for all of us hope that there is a hint of this, we have received from the Prime Minister's speech and the media. (Modern weapons)


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## bdslph

Doyalbaba said:


> http://samorikbisoy.blogspot.com/2016/08/Bd-Airforce-Power-F7-Aircraft.html
> * বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনির সক্ষমতা। *
> 6 days ago
> 
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তে এফ-৭ সিরিজের যুদ্ধবিমান গুলো নিয়ে আমরা অনেকেই নাক কুঁচকাই বলা চলে। অনেকে তাচ্ছিল্য করে আদিম যুগের মুড়ির টিন ও বলে। তবে বাস্তবতা কিন্তু ভিন্ন,, মিগ-২১ এর চীনা লাইসেন্সড ভার্সন এই এফ-৭ কিন্তু এখনো অনেক দেশের বিমানবাহিনীতে সার্ভিস দিয়ে চলেছে। আজ একটু আলোচনা করবো কি রয়েছে আমাদের এফ-৭ গুলোয় এবং এর দ্বারা কি কি করা সম্ভব।
> 
> বর্তমানে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনী তে ৩৪ টি Chengdu F-7 BGI, BG, MB যুদ্ধবিমান সার্ভিস দিচ্ছে যার ভেতর ১৬ টি F-7BGI, F-7/Mig-21 তৃতীয় প্রজন্মের যুদ্ধবিমান হলেও F-7BGI কিন্তু 3.5++ প্রজন্মের যুদ্ধবিমান,, কারন এর কাঠামো একই থাকলেও ভেতরের প্রায় সব কিছুই আপগ্রেডেড। মিগ-২১/এফ-৭ উভয় সিরিজের ই সবথেকে উন্নত বিমান এটি। F-7BGI এর রয়েছে এক্স-ব্যান্ড KLJ-6F ফায়ার কন্ট্রোল রাডার, যার রেঞ্জ ৮৬+ কিঃমিঃ যা বিভিআর রেঞ্জের কাছাকাছি। এই রাডার টি একই সাথে ৬ টি টার্গেট ট্রেক ও একইসময় ২ টিতে মিসাইল ফায়ার করতে সক্ষম। এছাড়াও অত্যাধুনিক হেল্মেট মাউন্টেড সাইট ও হেডস-আপ ডিসপ্লে যার ফলে অনেক তথ্য হেলমেটেই পেয়ে যায় ফলে এট্যাকে যেতে অনেক এডভান্টেজ পাওয়া যায় [ কিন্তু এই হেল্মেট BAF এর নেই দাম বেশি হবার কারনে]। F-7BGI এর রয়েছে সম্পূর্ণ গ্লাস-ককপিট, ককপিটে রয়েছে ৩ টি মাল্টিফানশনাল ডিসপ্লে ও HOTAS কন্ট্রল স্টিক, যার ফলে একদিকে অধিক তথ্য বিশ্লেষণ ও সহ কন্ট্রোল স্টিকের মাধ্যমেই অনেক কাজ সম্পন্ন করা যায়। এছাড়া BGI তে ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে ৮২ নট থ্রাস্ট উৎপাদনে সক্ষম WP-14 ইঞ্জিন যা একে ম্যাক-২.২ গতি এনে দিয়েছে। F-7BGI এর কাঠামো আগের ভার্সন এর মত হলেও এর কিন্তু উইংস ও টেইল সেকশন এ কিছুটা পরিবর্তন আনা হয়েছে ডিজাইনে, এর ফলে BGI এর এঙ্গেল অফ টার্ন, ম্যানুভারিটি বাড়িয়ে তুলেছে। BGI এর হার্ডপয়েন্ট কিন্তু আবার ৭ টি, এই হার্ডপয়েন্ট গুলোয় মোট ৩০০ কেজি সমপরিমাণ এয়ার-টু-এয়ার মিসাইল, লেজার গাইডেড বম্ব, জিপিএস বম্ব সহ ফুয়েল ট্যাংক ক্যারি করা যায়। শুধু তাই নয় F-7BGI C-704 AShM ও বহন করতে সক্ষম। সুতরাং বুঝিতেই পারছেন F-7BGI কোন ফেলনা জিনিশ নয়। আর এফ-৭এমবি গুলো অনেক বেশি পুরনো হবার ফলে এগুলো কে শুধুমাত্র ট্রেইনিং এই ব্যবহার করা হয় এখন।
> 
> এবার আসি F-7BG প্রসঙ্গে, এটি মূলত F7MG এর বাংলাদেশী ভার্সন,, এই ভার্সন টি অস্ত্র বহনের পাশাপাশি উইংস এ Reconnaissance Pod ও ক্যারি করতে পারে। এছাড়া এই ভার্সন টিকে আপগ্রেড করে এতে ইতালির তৈরি Grifo-Mk-II রাডার সংযোজিত করা হয়েছে।
> 
> ★★★ এবার আসি মূল কথায়,, এই এয়ারক্রাফট গুলোকে নিয়ে কি করা যেতে পারে....
> সাধারণত এফ-৭ গুলোকে ইন্টারসেপ্টর ও গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক রোলেই ব্যবহার করা হয়, যদিয়োবা আকাশ যুদ্ধে বা এয়ার টু এয়ার ফাইটে F-BGI ভালো করার সম্ভাবনা অনেক রয়েছে। যেহেতু আমরা জাতীগত এবং সাংবিধানিক ভাবে ডিফেন্সিভ তাই কেউ যদি আমাদের উপর আক্রমণ করে তবে এই সামান্য এয়ার পাওয়ার নিয়ে আমরা যা করতে পারি তা হলো...
> 
> আমরা ৮ টি মিগ কে ৪ টি গ্রুপে ভাগ করে প্রতি ২ টি মিগের সাথে ৪ টি করে F-7BGI ও ৩ টি করে BG যুক্ত করতে পারি, এছাড়া ১৬ টি ইয়াক-১৩০ যেহেতু সল্প পরিসরে যুদ্ধ করতে সক্ষম তাই সেগুলো ও এর সাথে যুক্ত করলে শত্রু বাহিনীর উপর গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক করা ও স্কোয়াড্রন এর এয়ারক্রাফট গুলোকে কাভার দেয়া সম্ভব হবে শত্রু ফাইটার হতে। এছাড়া AN-32 বম্বার গুলোকে BGI দিয়ে এসকট করা যাবে যা বম্বিং করে নিরাপদে ব্যেসে ফেরত আসতে সহায়তা করবে কিছুটা।
> 
> আপাতত এর চাইতে বেশি কিছু করা আমাদের সম্ভব না আমাদের বিমান বাহিনী নিয়ে। তবে আশার কথা এই যে ২০২১ সালের স্বাধীনতার ৫০ বছর পূর্তিতে বিমান বাহিনীর জন্য এবং আমাদের জন্য অনেকটা বড় সুখবর পাবার প্রত্যাশা রয়েছে যার ইংগিত এরি মধ্য আমরা পেয়েছি প্রধানমন্ত্রীর বক্তব্যে ও বিভিন্ন মাধ্যম থেকে। (আধুনিক সমরাস্ত্র)
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh air forces capabilities.
> 6 days ago
> F-7 Aircraft, Bd Air force, Bangladesh Airforce air craft
> F-7 series at Bangladesh Air Force fighter aircraft with many of the nose called kumcakai. Many primitive covering tin, and to disparage. But the reality is different ,, but the MiG-21 and F-7 Chinese licensed version, but still with a lot of service in the Air Force said. Today there will be a discussion by our F-7 from invading and what can be done.
> 
> Our air force is currently on the 34 Chengdu F-7 BGI, BG, MB fighter is service through which 16 F-7BGI, F-7 / Mig-21, but the third-generation fighter aircraft F-7BGI ,, but because of the 3.5 generation ++ almost everything inside the same structure, but upgraded. MiG-21 / F-7 is the most advanced aircraft in both series. F-7BGI of the X-band radar KLJ-6F Fire Control, which ranges around 86+ km range, which is very near to BVR. This is the same radar to track and target 6 at the same time able to fire missiles at two. Helmet also mounted sophisticated sites and heads-up display, allowing the display to be getting a lot of information as a result of helametei etyake advantage is to go [but this is more than the cost of BAF helmet Because]. There's also a full glass-cockpit F-7BGI, the cockpit has a 3 maltifunctional display and HOTAS control stick, allowing one to analyze more data and a lot of the work can be done with the control stick. BGI has been used on the WP-14 engine, which is capable of producing 8 knots thrust it into the Mac has 22 speeds. While earlier versions of the F-7BGI structure of the wings and the tail section, but slightly altered design, the angle of the turn of BGI, maneuverity has increased. BGI's hardapoint is 7, but again, this hardpoint from invading the equivalent of a total of 300 kg of air-to-air missiles, laser guided bomb, bomb, including GPS Carey is the fuel tank. Not only F-7BGI C-704 AShM and able to carry. So, thing you can not throw away any of the F-7BGI. And a lot of the older F-7 MB only use for training purpose now.
> 
> In the context of the F-7BG come, it's basically a Bangladeshi version of F7MG ,, this version, as well as carrying weapons in the wings, and Carrie could Reconnaissance Pod. The last upgrade to this version of the Italian Grifo-Mk-II radar has been added.
> 
> I go into the aircraft, with the key words ★★★ ,, what can be done ....
> F-7 space intercept and ground attack usually is used rolei, yadiyoba air or air-to-air flight F-BGI has a lot of potential to do well. Defensive racial and constitutional way we know if someone attacks us, we can do this is to get a little air ...
> 
> We have groups of 4 to 8 MiG-K with two mig-29 4 or 3 F-7BG, and the F-7BGI can add BG, -130, whereas the low range Yak-16 is able to connect with them and the enemy Ground attack on troops and squadrons of fighter aircraft of the enemy will be possible to cover space. The AN-32 bombers in the bombing, which ones can be safely escort with BGI return to base will help a little bit.
> 
> Now more than possible for us to bring our air force. However, I hope that the 50 anniversary of independence in 2021 for the Air Force, and a lot of good news for all of us hope that there is a hint of this, we have received from the Prime Minister's speech and the media. (Modern weapons)



By 2021 we should have bulk amount of new planes i mean modern ones and armed uav the best ones


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## Michael Corleone

Guys they talk about atleast 4 squadrons of multirole and 6 squadrons of air superiority... 10 squadrons of. 16 planes each is 160 fighter jets. 
4 squadrons before 2021 is unattainable don't you think? 64 multirole fighter jets before 2021... The order needs to be place by now or next year. It takes time to make to assemble fighter jets. Atleast 2-3 years for 64 jets. And multirole fighter like what? Mig 35 or mug 29 smt? I don't see this becoming a reality.


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## bdslph

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Guys they talk about atleast 4 squadrons of multirole and 6 squadrons of air superiority... 10 squadrons of. 16 planes each is 160 fighter jets.
> 4 squadrons before 2021 is unattainable don't you think? 64 multirole fighter jets before 2021... The order needs to be place by now or next year. It takes time to make to assemble fighter jets. Atleast 2-3 years for 64 jets. And multirole fighter like what? Mig 35 or mug 29 smt? I don't see this becoming a reality.




Maybe by 2030 nt 2021 
Unless we buy second hand instant


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Guys they talk about atleast 4 squadrons of multirole and 6 squadrons of air superiority... 10 squadrons of. 16 planes each is 160 fighter jets.
> 4 squadrons before 2021 is unattainable don't you think? 64 multirole fighter jets before 2021... The order needs to be place by now or next year. It takes time to make to assemble fighter jets. Atleast 2-3 years for 64 jets. And multirole fighter like what? Mig 35 or mug 29 smt? I don't see this becoming a reality.



It can happen if the order is placed by 2018 so don't discount it just yet.


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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> Maybe by 2030 nt 2021
> Unless we buy second hand instant


No the immediate goal is increasing squadron number to 4 and then 6 more by 2030. We already have three squadrons don't we? That's 13 squadrons.

My theory is we will get 8 mig 29smt to complete mig 29 squadrons and upgrade existing ones to smt. And buy 4 more squadrons of either mig35, or mig29 if economy calls for it or maybe j-10? I think Russian planes are more likely unless j31 matures and Bangladesh goes for that.


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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> No the immediate goal is increasing squadron number to 4 and then 6 more by 2030. We already have three squadrons don't we? That's 13 squadrons.
> 
> My theory is we will get 8 mig 29smt to complete mig 29 squadrons and upgrade existing ones to smt. And buy 4 more squadrons of either mig35, or mig29 if economy calls for it or maybe j-10? *I think Russian planes are more likely unless* j31 matures and Bangladesh goes for that.



Ya right...


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## ~Phoenix~




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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Ya right...


What's your opinion?


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## Homo Sapiens

Currently Bangladesh have 6 airbase.But 5 of them in just Dhaka and Chittagong division.Why there is no airbase in Rangpur,Sylhet or Rajshahi division?Are Bangladeshi military strategists take any account of possible hostility with India? @UKBengali ,@BDforever ,@Khan saheb what's your opinion on this matter?

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## BDforever

Doyalbaba said:


> Currently Bangladesh have 6 airbase.But 5 of them in just Dhaka and Chittagong division.Why there is no airbase in Rangpur,Sylhet or Rajshahi division?Are Bangladeshi military strategists take any account of possible hostility with India? @UKBengali ,@BDforever ,@Khan saheb what's your opinion on this matter?


1. some airports are also used as secondary air base.
2. a disclosure: 3 new airforce bases are in the line

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## Homo Sapiens

BDforever said:


> 2. a disclose: 3 new airforce bases are in the line


That's a great news.Do you have any information regarding their location?

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## BDforever

Doyalbaba said:


> That's a great news.Do you have any information regarding their location?


yes i know but i can't tell you that  so much restriction


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## Homo Sapiens

BDforever said:


> yes i know but i can't tell you that  so much restriction


OK,then.

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## Michael Corleone

Doyalbaba said:


> Currently Bangladesh have 6 airbase.But 5 of them in just Dhaka and Chittagong division.Why there is no airbase in Rangpur,Sylhet or Rajshahi division?Are Bangladeshi military strategists take any account of possible hostility with India? @UKBengali ,@BDforever ,@Khan saheb what's your opinion on this matter?


It's missing something. There is a base in Rajshahi. I am worrying about maintenance unit... Why so close to the border? Have they considered in case of future hostility?



BDforever said:


> yes i know but i can't tell you that  so much restriction


Can you just say what fighters are surely to be inducted by 2021? How many of em? 
Ps.You military?


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## BDforever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Can you just say what fighters are surely to be inducted by 2021? How many of em?
> Ps.You military?


1. only top level knows, it has been kept secret.
2. 5 squadrons is the plan
3. no, i am not in military


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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> 1. only top level knows, it has been kept secret.
> 2. 5 squadrons is the plan
> 3. no, i am not in military


3 squadron already purchased. I think 2 more squadron of 4++ fighter you will see by 2021.


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## Homo Sapiens

TopCat said:


> 3 squadron already purchased. I think 2 more squadron of 4++ fighter you will see by 2021.


3 squadron? Are you including Yak-130 and K-8? Or Mil-Mi-171sh helicopter?After declaring force goal, govt. brought only one squadron truly combat aircraft, F-7BGI.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> 3 squadron already purchased. I think 2 more squadron of 4++ fighter you will see by 2021.


3 squadrons from before. And in that mig squadron is not completely equipped. Valor,vigilance victory squadron i.e. There is talks of additional squadrons. Hopefully they order next year.


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## Arthur

Doyalbaba said:


> Currently Bangladesh have 6 airbase.But 5 of them in just Dhaka and Chittagong division.Why there is no airbase in Rangpur,Sylhet or Rajshahi division?Are Bangladeshi military strategists take any account of possible hostility with India? @UKBengali ,@BDforever ,@Khan saheb what's your opinion on this matter?



Rajshahi, Saidpur, Ishwardi airfields can support the takeoff and landing of figter jets.

Shylet, Comilla can support take off and landing of fighter jets too. As @BDforever mentioned 3 new base are in Pipeline. One is going to be on mountains.

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## TopCat

Doyalbaba said:


> 3 squadron? Are you including Yak-130 and K-8? Or Mil-Mi-171sh helicopter?After declaring force goal, govt. brought only one squadron truly combat aircraft, F-7BGI.


Yes you are correct.. 2 sqdrn of trainer cum fighter, 1 sqdrn of F-7 BGI already purchased.
2 more sqdrn of 4++ gen is more realistic than somebody claiming 60 4++ gen fighter by 2021.



Khan saheb said:


> Rajshahi, Saidpur, Ishwardi airfields can support the takeoff and landing of figter jets.
> 
> Shylet, Comilla can support take off and landing of fighter jets too. As @BDforever mentioned 3 new base are in Pipeline. One is going to be on mountains.



Barishal will get a airbase for sure. we are having a navy base and submarine base there.

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## ~Phoenix~

Yak-130 fully armed

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## Mentee

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yak-130 fully armed
> 
> View attachment 331718


If your govt is interested, we can arrange some f17 block 2 , a win win for all

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## Arthur

TopCat said:


> Barishal will get a airbase for sure. we are having a navy base and submarine base there.



4 new base actually, if you count the proposed naval airbase in Patuakhali. Patuakhali has an airstrip already. Most probably it will be expanded to a full blown air base to house the naval aviation wing. Barishal airport has the capabilities to support air force's fighter and transport aircrafts already. A project was passed in ECNEC few months ago to upgrade the airport, to give it capacity to be operational at night too.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mentee said:


> If your govt is interested, we can arrange some f17 block 2 , a win win for all



What the? F-17 was developed into F/A-18...









Pretty sure Pakistan doesn't have them as there are only two of them in the world and they are put on display on the following places

72-1569 – Western Museum of Flight in Torrance, California
72-1570 – Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile, Alabama

Don't see that as possible in any way...

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## Arthur

~Phoenix~ said:


> What the? F-17 was developed into F/A-18...
> 
> View attachment 331723
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure Pakistan doesn't have them as there are only two of them in the world and they are put on display on the following places
> 
> 72-1569 – Western Museum of Flight in Torrance, California
> 72-1570 – Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile, Alabama
> 
> Don't see that as possible in any way...


He probably meant the JF 17.

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## Michael Corleone

Mentee said:


> If your govt is interested, we can arrange some f17 block 2 , a win win for all


Nah man. Pakistan herself wants to get rid of jf17 block 2 and get j31!



~Phoenix~ said:


> Yak-130 fully armed
> 
> View attachment 331718


This is a Photoshop bruh.

Is the navy interested on achieving maritime strike capability by adding fighter jets into their fleet?

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## Hassan Guy

Bangladesh has an Air Force?


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## Mentee

~Phoenix~ said:


> What the? F-17 was developed into F/A-18...
> 
> View attachment 331723
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure Pakistan doesn't have them as there are only two of them in the world and they are put on display on the following places
> 
> 72-1569 – Western Museum of Flight in Torrance, California
> 72-1570 – Battleship Memorial Park in Mobile, Alabama
> 
> Don't see that as possible in any way...


It's obsolete bro , looks doesn't matter 



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Nah man. Pakistan herself wants to get rid of jf17 block 2 and get j31!


When did that happen 



Hassan Guy said:


> Bangladesh has an Air Force?


Your trolling skills are pathetic to say the least bro

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## Michael Corleone

Mentee said:


> It's obsolete bro , looks doesn't matter
> 
> 
> When did that happen
> 
> 
> Your trolling skills are pathetic to say the least bro


Not the entire fleet but intends to keep around 60 and sell the rest... About 251 I believe. They are in talk with the Chinese about j31

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## Mentee

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Not the entire fleet but intends to keep around 60 and sell the rest... About 251 I believe. They are in talk with the Chinese about j31


That doesn't mean they are going to abandon as much 4th+ Gen aircrafts in favor of some odd 5th gen----


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## Homo Sapiens

@BDforever any idea when the remaining five YAK-130 will arrive?


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## BDforever

Doyalbaba said:


> @BDforever any idea when the remaining five YAK-130 will arrive?


by the end of this year

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## Homo Sapiens

BDforever said:


> by the end of this year


330 BTR-82 and 2 submarine also scheduled to come by the end of 2016.What about them?


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## BDforever

Doyalbaba said:


> 330 BTR-82 and 2 submarine also scheduled to come by the end of 2016.What about them?


BTR-82 will take few time in 2017, sub will be in this year

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## bangali nazi

Doyalbaba said:


> Is there anything disclosed regarding which 2 particular ming class submarine BD getting?Their age,characteristics,capabilities?


those ming class subs build in 90s and now riffited they can fire torpedos and cy 5 torpedo rockets from their torpedo tubes and also can lay mines

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## Homo Sapiens

@bangali nazi if you don't mind,I would request you to change this offensive name.

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## ~Phoenix~

Khan saheb said:


> He probably meant the JF 17.



Oh,dang...I guess the "J" went to its "Shoshur bari" lol



Mohammed Khaled said:


> This is a Photoshop bruh.



SHHHHHHH,YOU LET THE SECRET OUT! AAAAAARRGGGGGHHHH!!



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Is the navy interested on achieving maritime strike capability by adding fighter jets into their fleet?



FC-01/JF-17? Umm,its better than BG1s...FC-01/JF-17 can be armed with

CM-400AKG ( Air Launched version of CX-01 supersonic cruise missile )
C-802 ( The Air Launched version )
Raptor II/H-4 Joint Standoff Weapon
MAR-1 Anti-Radiation Missile
Ra'ad/Hatf VIII ALCM ( Air Launched Cruise Missile )
While F-7 BG1's maritime strike capability is limited to two air launched versions of C-704...



But upcoming Su-30 MKK/MK2 would have superior maritime strike capability compared to JF-17/FC-01 but I highly doubt that the navy is getting Sukhois...For the navy,I'd prefer JF-17/FC-01 or F/A-18 Hornet.Air Force deserves better.The Air Force evaluated SAAB JAS-39 Gripen,F/A-18 Hornet,Mikoyan Gurevich MiG-35,Sukhoi Su-30,F-16 C/D Fighting Falcon,J-10 and others,but only MiG-35 and Su-30 are the possible new birds...



@Mentee



Doyalbaba said:


> 330 BTR-82 and 2 submarine also scheduled to come by the end of 2016.What about them?




I rekon 128 of them being already delivered...

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## bangali nazi

Doyalbaba said:


> @bangali nazi if you don't mind,I would request you to change this offensive name.


nothing bad to be an extream nationalist just chill dude not going ti kill any jews i love all


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## Homo Sapiens

~Phoenix~ said:


> I rekon 128 of them being already delivered...


Really!! good news indeed.We should not expect the media to flash out BTR-82 delivery news as it will be done probably in a multiple small consignment,so not newsworthy enough plus our army's unwillingness to preach will not generate interest among the news reporter.



bangali nazi said:


> nothing bad to be an extream nationalist just chill dude not going ti kill any jews i love all


You can change the name as 'Bengali patriot'.It will be a good name for you.Just my suggestion.You may consider this or any other beautiful name.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Oh,dang...I guess the "J" went to its "Shoshur bari" lol
> 
> 
> 
> SHHHHHHH,YOU LET THE SECRET OUT! AAAAAARRGGGGGHHHH!!
> 
> 
> 
> FC-01/JF-17? Umm,its better than BG1s...FC-01/JF-17 can be armed with
> 
> CM-400AKG ( Air Launched version of CX-01 supersonic cruise missile )
> C-802 ( The Air Launched version )
> Raptor II/H-4 Joint Standoff Weapon
> MAR-1 Anti-Radiation Missile
> Ra'ad/Hatf VIII ALCM ( Air Launched Cruise Missile )
> While F-7 BG1's maritime strike capability is limited to two air launched versions of C-704...
> 
> 
> 
> But upcoming Su-30 MKK/MK2 would have superior maritime strike capability compared to JF-17/FC-01 but I highly doubt that the navy is getting Sukhois...For the navy,I'd prefer JF-17/FC-01 or F/A-18 Hornet.Air Force deserves better.The Air Force evaluated SAAB JAS-39 Gripen,F/A-18 Hornet,Mikoyan Gurevich MiG-35,Sukhoi Su-30,F-16 C/D Fighting Falcon,J-10 and others,but only MiG-35 and Su-30 are the possible new birds...
> 
> 
> 
> @Mentee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rekon 128 of them being already delivered...


If the navy gets jf17 it will be a huge upgrade tbh. And btw Swedish jets or anything for that matter are designed specifically to Swedish needs... It's not versatile when you factor in requirements... Like Swedish weather... Totally different than Bangladesh or Middle East weather etc.


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## Bilal9

Doyalbaba said:


> @bangali nazi if you don't mind,I would request you to change this offensive name.



How did this get by the Mods? 

@waz bhai your intervention is respectfully requested...

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## waz

bangali nazi said:


> nothing bad to be an extream nationalist just chill dude not going ti kill any jews i love all



Change you name please.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> If the navy gets jf17 it will be a huge upgrade tbh. And btw Swedish jets or anything for that matter are designed specifically to Swedish needs... It's not versatile when you factor in requirements... Like Swedish weather... Totally different than Bangladesh or Middle East weather etc.



They can modify it for our needs,Brazil has it,South Africa does,and another oily country in the Middle East ( name slips outta my mind right now,sorry )




Doyalbaba said:


> Really!! good news indeed.We should not expect the media to flash out BTR-82 delivery news as it will be done probably in a multiple small consignment,so not newsworthy enough plus our army's unwillingness to preach will not generate interest among the news reporter.




Well, @BDforever said that first.Trust me,he has alot of credible sources and he knows "alot of things"...

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> They can modify it for our needs,Brazil has it,South Africa does,and another oily country in the Middle East ( name slips outta my mind right now,sorry )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, @BDforever said that first.Trust me,he has alot of credible sources and he knows "alot of things"...


It's basically another mig29 or f16 but cheaper. If it's for the navy... I am cool with that. I want to see Sukhoi jets in air force.

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## bongbang

Dhaka, 05 September: – Visiting Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc called on Minister of National Defence of China Chang Wanquan and discussed on bilateral issues on 02 September 2016.

Bangladesh Air Force Chief was given a guard of honour by a smartly turned out contingent at PLA Air Force Headquarters. He inspected the guard and took salute.

Mentionable, Air Chief left Dhaka for China on Tuesday (30-08-2016) at the invitation of PLA Air Force.

It is expected that the visit of Chief of Air Staff will play an important role for strengthening the existing relations between Bangladesh and China.

http://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/2016/09/05/air-chief-calls-on-national-defence-minister-of-china/






Dhaka, 06 September: – Visiting Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc called on Commander of PLA Air Force of China General Ma Xiaotian and discussed on bilateral issues as a part of his visit on 02 September 2016.

Mentionable, Chief of Air Staff left Dhaka for China on Tuesday (30-08-2016) at the invitation of PLA Air Force.

It is expected that the visit of Chief of Air Staff will play an important role for strengthening the existing relations between Bangladesh and China.

http://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/2016/09/06/air-chief-calls-on-pla-air-force-commander-of-china/

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## Michael Corleone

bongbang said:


> Dhaka, 05 September: – Visiting Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc called on Minister of National Defence of China Chang Wanquan and discussed on bilateral issues on 02 September 2016.
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force Chief was given a guard of honour by a smartly turned out contingent at PLA Air Force Headquarters. He inspected the guard and took salute.
> 
> Mentionable, Air Chief left Dhaka for China on Tuesday (30-08-2016) at the invitation of PLA Air Force.
> 
> It is expected that the visit of Chief of Air Staff will play an important role for strengthening the existing relations between Bangladesh and China.
> 
> http://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/2016/09/05/air-chief-calls-on-national-defence-minister-of-china/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dhaka, 06 September: – Visiting Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc called on Commander of PLA Air Force of China General Ma Xiaotian and discussed on bilateral issues as a part of his visit on 02 September 2016.
> 
> Mentionable, Chief of Air Staff left Dhaka for China on Tuesday (30-08-2016) at the invitation of PLA Air Force.
> 
> It is expected that the visit of Chief of Air Staff will play an important role for strengthening the existing relations between Bangladesh and China.
> 
> http://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/2016/09/06/air-chief-calls-on-pla-air-force-commander-of-china/


any news on what was discussed?


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## ~Phoenix~

bongbang said:


> Dhaka, 05 September: – Visiting Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc called on Minister of National Defence of China Chang Wanquan and discussed on bilateral issues on 02 September 2016.
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force Chief was given a guard of honour by a smartly turned out contingent at PLA Air Force Headquarters. He inspected the guard and took salute.
> 
> Mentionable, Air Chief left Dhaka for China on Tuesday (30-08-2016) at the invitation of PLA Air Force.
> 
> It is expected that the visit of Chief of Air Staff will play an important role for strengthening the existing relations between Bangladesh and China.
> 
> http://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/2016/09/05/air-chief-calls-on-national-defence-minister-of-china/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dhaka, 06 September: – Visiting Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, ndc, acsc called on Commander of PLA Air Force of China General Ma Xiaotian and discussed on bilateral issues as a part of his visit on 02 September 2016.
> 
> Mentionable, Chief of Air Staff left Dhaka for China on Tuesday (30-08-2016) at the invitation of PLA Air Force.
> 
> It is expected that the visit of Chief of Air Staff will play an important role for strengthening the existing relations between Bangladesh and China.
> 
> http://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/2016/09/06/air-chief-calls-on-pla-air-force-commander-of-china/



So,J-10 or JF-17/FC-01 Thunder or J-11?



Mohammed Khaled said:


> It's basically another mig29 or f16 but cheaper. If it's for the navy... I am cool with that. I want to see Sukhoi jets in air force.



The Gripen can even take down an F-35...Its almost as strong as Rafael...


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> So,J-10 or JF-17/FC-01 Thunder or J-11?
> 
> 
> 
> The Gripen can even take down an F-35...Its almost as strong as Rafael...


Woah woah hold your horses. Even a mig21 can shoot down a f35 in a dogfight. But that jet is no where near Rafale. Not even eurofighter.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Woah woah hold your horses. Even a mig21 can shoot down a f35 in a dogfight. But that jet is no where near Rafale. Not even eurofighter.



How so?


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## Anubis

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Woah woah hold your horses. Even a mig21 can shoot down a f35 in a dogfight. But that jet is no where near Rafale. Not even eurofighter.


A guy with a long sword can easily kill a guy with a musket in close quarters...but he has to get close.


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## ~Phoenix~

Anubis said:


> A guy with a long sword can easily kill a guy with a musket in close quarters...but he has to get close.



Gripen also has great avoinics and capabilities...


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> How so?


A jet that can hardly do Mach 1 bleeds energy and can't do evasive maneuvers is useless in a dogfight. Until all the software, sensors/jammers matures. Mig21 can shoot down a f35 any day like a piece of cake.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> A jet that can hardly do Mach 1 bleeds energy and can't do evasive maneuvers is useless in a dogfight. Until all the software, sensors/jammers matures. Mig21 can shoot down a f35 any day like a piece of cake.



And that would mean that BAF has capability to take down the most advanced aircraft on the world in close quarter combat...

To think all the NATO countries are dying to get their ( dirty ) hands on that F-35..


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> And that would mean that BAF has capability to take down the most advanced aircraft on the world in close quarter combat...
> 
> To think all the NATO countries are dying to get their ( dirty ) hands on that F-35..


Is it battle proven? Even a f15 can shoot it down. As for close quarters... Thing that doesn't move doesn't survives. Pentagon weapons examiners are still not impressed with it. The modern electronic warfare systems aren't mature yet... they say. It's just like how it was with f4 phantoms and Sabres.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Is it battle proven? Even a f15 can shoot it down. As for close quarters... Thing that doesn't move doesn't survives. Pentagon weapons examiners are still not impressed with it. The modern electronic warfare systems aren't mature yet... they say. It's just like how it was with f4 phantoms and Sabres.



Russian birds make full use of their technology...


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## muhammadali233

~Phoenix~ said:


> You mentioned someone else not me...My name is ~Phoenix~ not Phoenix.I have the stylish sign ~
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 321375


Tail strike at its finest
I sincerely hope that pilot doesn't gets to fly again.

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## ~Phoenix~

muhammadali233 said:


> Tail strike at its finest
> I sincerely hope that pilot doesn't gets to fly again.




LoL,poor pilot...


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## masud



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## ~Phoenix~

MiG-29s in dogfight with a...kite! ( See carefully )

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## Zabaniyah

Mohammed Khaled said:


> If the navy gets jf17 it will be a huge upgrade tbh. And btw Swedish jets or anything for that matter are designed specifically to Swedish needs... It's not versatile when you
> factor in requirements... Like Swedish weather... Totally different than Bangladesh or Middle East weather etc.



Gripen uses an American engine.


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## Michael Corleone

Loki said:


> Gripen uses an American engine.


There you go... another reason Bangladesh can never get gripen.


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## Zabaniyah

Mohammed Khaled said:


> There you go... another reason Bangladesh can never get gripen.



Even if it didn't have one, it really wouldn't be worth it. The Swedes have a care-bear policy regarding arms sales to countries they deem unstable. And Bangladesh generally tend to fall in that category.

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## Michael Corleone

Loki said:


> Even if it didn't have one, it really wouldn't be worth it. The Swedes have a care-bear policy regarding arms sales to countries they deem unstable. And Bangladesh generally tend to fall in that category.


The thing is Swedish makes arms meeting requirements they need... it's not versatile. And hence most probably not suitable for Bangladesh anyways.


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## bd_4_ever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> The thing is Swedish makes arms meeting requirements they need... it's not versatile. And hence most probably not suitable for Bangladesh anyways.



Well from my experience of living in Sweden, JAS Gripen is a very capable plane and has a very good demand in Europe.


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## Zabaniyah

bd_4_ever said:


> Well from my experience of living in Sweden, JAS Gripen is a very capable plane and has a very good demand in Europe.



The Gripen is not a bad plane. It is a bit small. I'd prefer the Typhoon over that and the Rafale any day. 

See, Bangladesh has a large airspace to cover, and that includes maritime airspace. One of our biggest security challenges is maritime security. We can't cover our waters properly. It is a big problem. 

For the part, we need an all-weather high performance fighter jet able to perform, recon, interception and if necessary, combat duties.


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## bd_4_ever

Loki said:


> The Gripen is not a bad plane. It is a bit small. I'd prefer the Typhoon over that and the Rafale any day.
> 
> See, Bangladesh has a large airspace to cover, and that includes maritime airspace. One of our biggest security challenges is maritime security. We can't cover our waters properly. It is a big problem.
> 
> For the part, we need an all-weather high performance fighter jet able to perform, recon, interception and if necessary, combat duties.



I agree with you. However, I would recommend P-3s/P-8s or its variants for maritime patrol. For now, 1-2 would suffice for surveillance and later with Forces Goal 2030 coming into shape, we should have combat aircraft to join. However, I am not sure if P-3s/P-8s would be sold to us. If not, we can go for something else, but of a similar caliber.

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## bdslph

P3 p8 gripen are good 
But dont knw if usa will allow though

But we have all this equivalent frm russia and china


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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> Well from my experience of living in Sweden, JAS Gripen is a very capable plane and has a very good demand in Europe.


dont get me wrong bro. it is a very capable fighter... but sweden makes weapons giving priority to their needs and doesnt make them with lots of variations for others... same with their tank programs back in the days.

the missile it fires is american... the engine is american... avionics is american. i dont think bangladesh will be allowed to have them... cuz USA!



Loki said:


> The Gripen is not a bad plane. It is a bit small. I'd prefer the Typhoon over that and the Rafale any day.
> 
> See, Bangladesh has a large airspace to cover, and that includes maritime airspace. One of our biggest security challenges is maritime security. We can't cover our waters properly. It is a big problem.
> 
> For the part, we need an all-weather high performance fighter jet able to perform, recon, interception and if necessary, combat duties.


since eurofighter, rafale is out of question... russian sukhois or chinese variants of russian sukhois... we have no other options that fits the bill. unless USA decides to let us buy thier f-18s? highly unlikely


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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> dont get me wrong bro. it is a very capable fighter... but sweden makes weapons giving priority to their needs and doesnt make them with lots of variations for others... same with their tank programs back in the days.
> 
> the missile it fires is american... the engine is american... avionics is american. i dont think bangladesh will be allowed to have them... cuz USA!
> 
> 
> since eurofighter, rafale is out of question... russian sukhois or chinese variants of russian sukhois... we have no other options that fits the bill. unless USA decides to let us buy thier f-18s? highly unlikely



USA offer is on table.. If you have money you can get it.
Why are you banging that USA will not allow us to have this and that. They are selling their top C-130 aircraft to us same as GE engines.


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## Arthur

TopCat said:


> USA offer is on table.. If you have money you can get it.
> Why are you banging that USA will not allow us to have this and that. They are selling their top C-130 aircraft to us same as GE engines.



a transport aircraft and fighters are different.

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## bd_4_ever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> dont get me wrong bro. it is a very capable fighter... but sweden makes weapons giving priority to their needs and doesnt make them with lots of variations for others... same with their tank programs back in the days.



Sweden doesnt take its military that seriously anymore. However, its still one of the most largest exporter of arms in the world. So explains why there hasnt been much expansion of Gripen's variant or any other fighter for that matter. However, the recent adventures of the Russian military around Swedish water boundaries gave them a tickle. Owing to some noises, they will probably start taking it seriously now.


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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> Sweden doesnt take its military that seriously anymore. However, its still one of the most largest exporter of arms in the world. So explains why there hasnt been much expansion of Gripen's variant or any other fighter for that matter. However, the recent adventures of the Russian military around Swedish water boundaries gave them a tickle. Owing to some noises, they will probably start taking it seriously now.


probably... time will tell.



TopCat said:


> USA offer is on table.. If you have money you can get it.
> Why are you banging that USA will not allow us to have this and that. They are selling their top C-130 aircraft to us same as GE engines.


you should ask why do we have those pesky migs instead of f-16... my answer will be that US in 1996 said a country like bangladesh doesnt need f-16 and hence didnt approve sales to us and we went for the migs... well for the longrun mig seems to have better performance (maneuvering characteristics) than f-16s so that paidoff.


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## bigbossman



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## Gandh brandi

Mohammed Khaled said:


> you should ask why do we have those pesky migs instead of f-16... my answer will be that US in 1996 said a country like bangladesh doesnt need f-16 and hence didnt approve sales to us and we went for the migs... well for the longrun mig seems to have better performance (maneuvering characteristics) than f-16s so that paidoff.


sadly one of the most compromised fighter as well.


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## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> sadly one of the most compromised fighter as well.


Unfortunately in our case... yes


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## ~Phoenix~

Loki said:


> Gripen uses an American engine.




How about replacing them with Russian counterparts? With 3D thrust vectoring engines or I'm dreaming too much!








I don't think thats photoshopped!


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> How about replacing them with Russian counterparts? With 3D thrust vectoring engines or I'm dreaming too much!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 342480
> 
> I don't think thats photoshopped!


Doesn't work like that. Have to bring changes to the airframe to adapt to that particular engine... meaning it will be a whole new aircraft.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Doesn't work like that. Have to bring changes to the airframe to adapt to that particular engine... meaning it will be a whole new aircraft.



Umm,what we were talking about? Yes,Sukhoi Su-30s! They are highly maneuoverable and versatile.Also we have MiG-35s which are great as well.I don't think we might go for J-10...


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Umm,what we were talking about? Yes,Sukhoi Su-30s! They are highly maneuoverable and versatile.Also we have MiG-35s which are great as well.I don't think we might go for J-10...


I don't think we will get j-10... the Chinese are having problems with its Russian supplied engines and they don't have their own to put in either... we were talking about, you asked if Russian engine can be put in gripen. Given the current state of stalemate in jet business. I don't think Bangladesh will get anytime soon.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I don't think we will get j-10... the Chinese are having problems with its Russian supplied engines and they don't have their own to put in either... we were talking about, you asked if Russian engine can be put in gripen. Given the current state of stalemate in jet business. I don't think Bangladesh will get anytime soon.



Yeah,but who knows? Amra Bangali,onek kisu hoite pare...England er shat e ki hoise mone nai?


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## Gandh brandi

~Phoenix~ said:


> How about replacing them with Russian counterparts? With 3D thrust vectoring engines or I'm dreaming too much!


Wouldn't work like that.




> View attachment 342480
> 
> I don't think thats photoshopped!


Isn't that our Yaks?


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## Zabaniyah

Putting a big Russian engine onto a NATO plane? And under today's political climate? lol...

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## Bilal9

Air Exercise ‘Cope South 15’ in Bangladesh, part two: 
U.S. Air Force and Bangladesh Air Force jointly exercised the ‘Cope South 15’. This tactical airlift exercise held to enhance operational capabilities between these two parties. The aim of the exercise was focused on bilateral tactical airlift exercise held at BAF Base Bangabandhu, Bangladesh. Aircraft participated in the air drill was one of the Bangladeshi C-130B and three C-130H Hercules aircraft from the USAF and 200 Bangladeshi airmen & 80 U.S. Airmen took part.

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## ~Phoenix~

Sybaris Caeser said:


> Isn't that our Yaks?




Who else's?

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,but who knows? Amra Bangali,onek kisu hoite pare...England er shat e ki hoise mone nai?


What happened with England? You talking about the cricket... and security?

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## Zabaniyah

~Phoenix~ said:


> Yeah,but who knows? Amra Bangali,onek kisu hoite pare...England er shat e ki hoise mone nai?



Yeah, that's because the English suck at the sport *they* invented  

Heck, even the Irish play better

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> What happened with England? You talking about the cricket... and security?



I'm talking about our luck bruh


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## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> Air Exercise ‘Cope South 15’ in Bangladesh, part two:
> U.S. Air Force and Bangladesh Air Force jointly exercised the ‘Cope South 15’. This tactical airlift exercise held to enhance operational capabilities between these two parties. The aim of the exercise was focused on bilateral tactical airlift exercise held at BAF Base Bangabandhu, Bangladesh. Aircraft participated in the air drill was one of the Bangladeshi C-130B and three C-130H Hercules aircraft from the USAF and 200 Bangladeshi airmen & 80 U.S. Airmen took part.



We should start this kind of exercise with china russia and nato or eu


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## Bilal9

Bilal9 said:


> Air Exercise ‘Cope South 15’ in Bangladesh, part two:
> U.S. Air Force and Bangladesh Air Force jointly exercised the ‘Cope South 15’. This tactical airlift exercise held to enhance operational capabilities between these two parties. The aim of the exercise was focused on bilateral tactical airlift exercise held at BAF Base Bangabandhu, Bangladesh. Aircraft participated in the air drill was one of the Bangladeshi C-130B and three C-130H Hercules aircraft from the USAF and 200 Bangladeshi airmen & 80 U.S. Airmen took part.



These USAF Hercs are based at Yokota AB in Japan. 374th Airlift Wing and 36th Airlift Squadron.

The 36th AS conducts theater airlift, special operations, aeromedical evacuation, search and rescue, repatriation and humanitarian relief missions with a C-130H Hercules mission-ready aircrew while being the only forward-based tactical airlift squadron in the Pacific.



~Phoenix~ said:


> Who else's?
> 
> 
> View attachment 342624



I don't think at this point a lot of countries operate the tiny but lethal YAKs.

Myanmar will become the fourth export customer for the Yak-130 after Algeria(16), Bangladesh(16), and Belarus(4) when they get three later this year along with a simulator.

I read someplace that Bangladesh was also considering a new armored ground-attack variant (YAK-131) which is being bought by the Russian Air Force. This was meant to replace the SU-25 which was an A-10 Warthog analog i.e. tank-buster.

However there are more modern SU-25 variants from Sukhoi as well which offer much better performance (load carrying as well as better armor) than this converted trainer and have been refined over decades of actual combat experience.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

~Phoenix~ said:


> How about replacing them with Russian counterparts? With 3D thrust vectoring engines or I'm dreaming too much!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 342480
> 
> I don't think thats photoshopped!


Better pic;

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## muhammadali233

~Phoenix~ said:


> So,J-10 or JF-17/FC-01 Thunder or J-11?
> 
> 
> 
> The Gripen can even take down an F-35...Its almost as strong as Rafael...


Gripen was said as "Cannon Fodder" by British pilots who took em like little birds in the sky by their eft2k.But again PAF f-16blk15 took eft2k down too in a simulated WVR 3 nil.
Gripen NG however is a different story has a better system overall comparable to F-16 blk50 in capabilities.


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## Michael Corleone

muhammadali233 said:


> Gripen was said as "Cannon Fodder" by British pilots who took em like little birds in the sky by their eft2k.But again PAF f-16blk15 took eft2k down too in a simulated WVR 3 nil.
> Gripen NG however is a different story has a better system overall comparable to F-16 blk50 in capabilities.


Is it true... majority of Pakistan f-16 are not up to date or isn't in combat preparedness because of parts that needs to be repaired... overhauled? Was there in Indian defense thread I think.


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## Dazzler

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Is it true... majority of Pakistan f-16 are not up to date or isn't in combat preparedness because of parts that needs to be repaired... overhauled? Was there in Indian defense thread I think.



You need to check your facts. Its nothing but Indian propaganda. The entire F-16 fleet is upgraded and ready to roll. All 80+ of them.

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## Michael Corleone

Dazzler said:


> You need to check your facts. Its nothing but Indian propaganda. The entire F-16 fleet is upgraded and ready to roll. All 80+ of them.


That's why I asked the question to confirm from you guys. Thank you! Anyway are they all block 50?


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## muhammadali233

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Is it true... majority of Pakistan f-16 are not up to date or isn't in combat preparedness because of parts that needs to be repaired... overhauled? Was there in Indian defense thread I think.


60 F-16s were MLUed and upgraded to Blk 50 by using Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits at TAI.
Making 'em a perfect match for the mkis.
PAF at the moment is not short at spares.In case of any aggression all F-16s will face aggressors face to face.


Spoiler



1. APG-68(V)9 with Synthetic aperture radars 2. Joint Helmet Mounted Cuing System JHMCS 3. AN/APX-113 Advanced Identify Friend or Foe Systems 4. AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems 5. Have Quick I/II Radios 6. Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminal 7. SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pods 8. Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units; MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits 9. 21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency 10. Memory (DRFM) or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM; 11. 60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems 12. 1 Unit Level Trainer and 13. 10 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets

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## Dazzler

Mohammed Khaled said:


> That's why I asked the question to confirm from you guys. Thank you! Anyway are they all block 50?



18 block 52+, rest are blk 15/ 20 MLUed.

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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force Mig-29

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## ~Phoenix~

bigbossman said:


> Bangladesh Air Force Mig-29



WHERE THE HELL YOU GETTING THESE FROM????? GRRRR


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## Michael Corleone

bigbossman said:


> Bangladesh Air Force Mig-29


I immediately set one as wallpaper. :0 <3


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I immediately set one as wallpaper. :0 <3







This is my homescreen....

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## bigbossman

BANGLADESH AIR FORCE MIG-29




BANGLADESH AIR FORCE MIG-29

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## Russell

These did a fly by today as Bangladesh welcomed the Chinese Head of State

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## ~Phoenix~

@Mohammed Khaled I found the kacha-morich of @bigbossman 's source,there is a FB page called Sha Shastro Bahini,that contains some of the most rarest and explicit images about the military starting from drones to Ming class submarines....

Heres a pic of our Ming Class submarines...

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> @Mohammed Khaled I found the kacha-morich of @bigbossman 's source,there is a FB page called Sha Shastro Bahini,that contains some of the most rarest and explicit images about the military starting from drones to Ming class submarines....
> 
> Heres a pic of our Ming Class submarines...
> View attachment 343463


He linked me to the page before. However I found it difficult to find pics through.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> He linked me to the page before. However I found it difficult to find pics through.



Oh,well,but that guy has a great collection!


----------



## kobiraaz

~Phoenix~ said:


> Oh,well,but that guy has a great collection!



That page is active for years. I used to post photos from that page IN 2012



~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 343270
> 
> This is my homescreen....



This one was used in BAF calendar

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## ~Phoenix~

DAT BOOTY THO! <3 <3 <3

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## Bilal9

~Phoenix~ said:


> @Mohammed Khaled I found the kacha-morich of @bigbossman 's source,there is a FB page called Sha Shastro Bahini,that contains some of the most rarest and explicit images about the military starting from drones to Ming class submarines....
> 
> Heres a pic of our Ming Class submarines...
> View attachment 343463



Bhai let's post this in the Navy thread please....

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## ~Phoenix~

Bilal9 said:


> Bhai let's post this in the Navy thread please....



Sure!

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## Gyp 111

Hassan Guy said:


> Bangladesh has an Air Force?


Wake up fool


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## Hassan Guy

Gyp 111 said:


> Wake up fool


what do they fly?


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## Gyp 111

Hassan Guy said:


> what do they fly?


Check Wikipedia



Aung Zaya said:


> sry for off topic post.. if u want to talk more , mention in another thread..!!



Feeling sorry for you man  You don't have a separate Defence Forum to post your equipments. Nevermind


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## bigbossman

Honestly we don't have much...except a few mig-29









a little bit of f-7MB, BG, BGI

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## bigbossman

A few Mr. Bell









Forgot the name....




One table spoon full of anthonov, c-130, LET etc etc












A few more helos...(Forgot the total numbers)

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## bigbossman

Oops i forgot her..




and her








and her...




them...




and this bad boy





and finally these 2 harmless kids

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## Aung Zaya

Gyp 111 said:


> Feeling sorry for you man  You don't have a separate Defence Forum to post your equipments. Nevermind


well.. not separate defence forum.. but we do have sticky Myanmar Thread under China and Far East Section since 2 years ago...


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> DAT BOOTY THO! <3 <3 <3
> 
> View attachment 343810


If only I got high res of that booty <3 :0



Aung Zaya said:


> well.. not separate defence forum.. but we do have sticky Myanmar Thread under China and Far East Section since 2 years ago...


Feel sorry for you... kind of racist too associating Myanmar with china.


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> kind of racist too associating Myanmar with china.



How is it racist to say Burma is part of far east? SEA nations are all included in that subforum. Is it racist that Indonesia military thread is in that subforum too?

Far East region map:






Everyone here should stop feeling sorry for Burma, there are just a handful of members from there and they have a higher consumption per capita than you as a country. This thread is about BAF anyway....lets get back on topic.

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## Gyp 111

Aung Zaya said:


> well.. not separate defence forum.. but we do have sticky Myanmar Thread under China and Far East Section since 2 years ago...


So post your military equipments there not here.


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## Aung Zaya

Gyp 111 said:


> So post your military equipments there not here.


finally u wake up..!! LOL that's BDshi @~Phoenix~ start quoting me and making a discussion between Myanmar and BD.. it was already finished may be 2 or 3 month ago..

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## Bilal9

BAF LET L410, a communications and logistics bird





C130





MIG29

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## muhammadali233

Hassan Guy said:


> what do they fly?


a total of 150 aircraft,a good number keeping in mind they do not have any adversary.


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## kobiraaz

muhammadali233 said:


> a total of 150 aircraft,a good number keeping in mind they do not have any adversary.



Yeah We operate very few just to keep the pilots Trained. Otherwise Keeping many fighters would take a toll on our economy.


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## asad71

kobiraaz said:


> Yeah We operate very few just to keep the pilots Trained. Otherwise Keeping many fighters would take a toll on our economy.



The array of fat Marshals sitting all day on their bottom doing fu--k all, takes no lesser toll.


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## Banglar Bir

Compared to our Army and Navy. our Air force is very weak. We have focussed more on integrated AD missile system. Air force turn comes in the next phase, once our boys have completed their conversion on the YAK-130, FOR 4+ GENERATION multirole aircrafts.


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## ~Phoenix~

Aung Zaya said:


> well.. not separate defence forum.. but we do have sticky Myanmar Thread under China and Far East Section since 2 years ago...



Be proud of having a thread as sticky lolz...Thats way too much for a 60 billion worth economy haha...

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## Nilgiri

~Phoenix~ said:


> Be proud of having a thread as sticky lolz...Thats way too much for a 60 billion worth economy haha...



LOL, you are back again to your shenanigans right off the bat, welcome back!

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## ~Phoenix~

Nilgiri said:


> LOL, you are back again to your shenanigans right off the bat, welcome back!



Thank you lolz,

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## Aung Zaya

~Phoenix~ said:


> Be proud of having a thread as sticky lolz...Thats way too much for a 60 billion worth economy haha...


 it seem i was too proud of having a sticky thread..?  just an answer for freshy wake-up bangladeshi..

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## Nilgiri

Aung Zaya said:


> it seem i was too proud of having a sticky thread..?  just an answer for freshy wake-up bangladeshi..



We should all have a game of darts sometime lol. I will make sure you point the darts at the dart board and not each other hehe.

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## Aung Zaya

Nilgiri said:


> We should all have a game of darts sometime lol. I will make sure you point the darts at the dart board and not each other hehe.

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## bluesky

Nilgiri said:


> LOL, you are back again to your shenanigans right off the bat, welcome back!


Why does it burn you whenever someone utters Myanmar? Defend your own poor country.

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## ~Phoenix~

bluesky said:


> Why does it burn you whenever someone utters Myanmar? Defend your own *poor* country.




Shhhh,don't you remember that Myanmar,Uganda,Sudan are the richest nations on Earth while USA,Japan and China are the poorest?!

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## Nilgiri

bluesky said:


> Why does it burn you whenever someone utters Myanmar? Defend your own poor country.



We don't need defending. We have a history of attacking and liberating poor souls from their (self declared) holocaust resulting from their earlier low-IQ decisions.

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## bd_4_ever

People, keep this thread on topic.

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## Michael Corleone

Good morning. Finally moved to Europe. What did I miss? Any purchase order placed for the Air Force?


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Good morning. Finally moved to Europe. What did I miss? Any purchase order placed for the Air Force?



Don't be impatient,dude!


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Don't be impatient,dude!


Lol dude chill. I just asked you guys. Haven't followed any news lately.


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Lol dude chill. I just asked you guys. Haven't followed any news lately.



FORCES PLAN 2030. BD STRONK.

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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Finally moved to Europe.



Where did you move bro? Change your flag silly!

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## ~Phoenix~

Nilgiri said:


> FORCES PLAN 2030. BD STRONK.



@waz Remove this troll please

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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force f-7BGI


























Bangladesh Air Force An-32

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## Bilal9

bigbossman said:


> Bangladesh Air Force f-7BGI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force An-32




@bigbossman the host server is getting taxed really badly, pages are loading too slow. Why don't you host the photos at Photobucket and link them?

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## Bilal9

U.S., Bangladesh Airmen Train During Exercise Cope South (older images)









U.S. Air Force Staff Sgt. Ben Johnis, left, coordinates with Bangladesh army jumpmasters before a troop drop mission during exercise Cope South. Johnis is a S.E.R.E. instructor assigned to the 374th Operations Support Squadron, Yokota Air Base, Japan.





A Bangladesh Air Force C-130B taxis behind a U.S. Air Force C-130H aircraft, before conducting a parachute mission during exercise Cope South.

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## bigbossman

Bangladesh Air Force F-7BGI Pilot





Bangladesh Air Force K-8 flying with L-39





Bangladesh Air Force K-8 formation flying

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## bluesky

Nilgiri said:


> We don't need defending. We have a history of attacking and liberating poor souls from their (self declared) holocaust resulting from their earlier low-IQ decisions.


Because India cannot defend itself in the NE, therefore, it is always wooing for favor from a small BD. When you guys glorify with your long Tikki that BD is surrounded by india on its three sides, the virtual reality is, India ends in our western border and the NE is a no man's land. You will see the reality of what I say in times of a war.

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## Nilgiri

bluesky said:


> Because India cannot defend itself in the NE, therefore, it is always wooing for favor from a small BD. When you guys glorify with your long Tikki that BD is surrounded by india on its three sides, the virtual reality is, India ends in our western border and the NE is a no man's land. You will see the reality of what I say in times of a war.



Any war will be the last thing you do. You think missile majority of more than 500 to 1 cares about land border geometries however a low IQ ingrate interprets it?

Just like 1971 would have been the last thing you did if India did not intervene to save your pathetic hides. In hindsight we should not have intervened and let the whole area be depopulated as much as possible for a few years....there would be a lot fewer ingrates to deal with today.

No go jerk off over forces plan 2030 some more. BD STRONK.

And dont spill the chutney on your japanese customers anymore....so they can tip you and you dont have to be so mad online in your dream time to escape reality.


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## bluesky

Nilgiri said:


> Just like 1971 would have been the last thing you did if India did not intervene to save your pathetic hides.


Like other interventions by other nations in other zones, India did so in 1971 for its own interest. There was no way, a coward India would have saved its hide in 1971 from PA troops if IA troops were not supported by our Muktis. In reality, it was our war through out the nine months. December war was supported *from behind* with big guns by a nervous IA troops. India lost only 1300 troops. It shows who were in the front line in all the battles. 

Talk about culture and some other social things. You can talk also about economy, where India has excelled. But, do not talk about battle wins with us. Warfare is not your turf. Talking big does not make a nation big.

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## Nilgiri

bluesky said:


> Like other interventions by other nations in other zones, India did so in 1971 for its own interest. There was no way, a coward India would have saved its hide in 1971 from PA troops if IA troops were not supported by our Muktis. In reality, it was our war through out the nine months. December war was supported *from behind* with big guns by a nervous IA troops. India lost only 1300 troops. It shows who were in the front line in all the battles.
> 
> Talk about culture and some other social things. You can talk also about economy, where India has excelled. But, do not talk about battle wins with us. Warfare is not your turf. Talking big does not make a nation big.




There was no ways Muktis would have had ANYTHING without India. We armed them and gave them much support for many months. If it didn't happen your whole elder family would quite likely have perished and you wont even be around.

You owe your very existence to India and you wake up with that thought each day and it makes you mad. Its ok, we care more about what we take out from BD in repayment, not what butthurt angry nobodies think.

BD itself knows very well that any war with India or even limited conflict would be the end of BD, pure and simple. Thats why you can thank your stars BAL the Indian henchman party controls BD and will control BD for a long time to come.

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## rome333

Nilgiri said:


> There was no ways Muktis would have had ANYTHING without India. We armed them and gave them much support for many months. If it didn't happen your whole elder family would quite likely have perished and you wont even be around.
> 
> You owe your very existence to India and you wake up with that thought each day and it makes you mad. Its ok, we care more about what we take out from BD in repayment, not what butthurt angry nobodies think.
> 
> BD itself knows very well that any war with India or even limited conflict would be the end of BD, pure and simple. Thats why you can thank your stars BAL the Indian henchman party controls BD and will control BD for a long time to come.



Yeah..Bully! Dream On...

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## masud

The big fat Ukrainian was in town once again!

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## BDforever

masud said:


> The big fat Ukrainian was in town once again!


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## Russell

delivering helicopters?


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## muhammadali233

bigbossman said:


> Bangladesh Air Force f-7BGI


which wax does BAF uses to polish its F-7s?Most Immaculate 7's I've seen.

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## bigbossman



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## sbmc27

He is a known psycho... 


rome333 said:


> Yeah..Bully! Dream On...


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## Bilal9

muhammadali233 said:


> which wax does BAF uses to polish its F-7s?Most Immaculate 7's I've seen.



Well maintenance is good, one can probably say that. It has gotten significantly better over the last decade for all branches of the armed forces due to UN procedures and training with other advanced air forces.

Compared to Pakistani F-7s, these are newer and probably of a newer version as well. Bangladesh got the last batch off the line (BGI version) before they discontinued production which included much better avionics (full glass cockpit etc.).

32 x F-7 in service. 10× F-7MB reportedly retired, 16 F-7BG received in 2006 and 16 F-7BGI received in 2013. These look like the BG version to me, not BGI. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> These look like the BG version to me, not BGI.


BGI. BG version has blue camo.

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## bigbossman

F-7 MB of Bangladesh Air Force


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## bd_4_ever

Its a visual pain to look at these planes! We need 4.5+ gen fighters at the earliest. Can keep these for training, alongside the K-8s.

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## ~Phoenix~

Bilal9 said:


> U.S. Air Force Staff Sgt. Ben Johnis, left, coordinates with Bangladesh army jumpmasters before a troop drop mission during exercise Cope South. Johnis is a S.E.R.E. instructor assigned to the 374th Operations Support Squadron, Yokota Air Base, Japan.



Look at the US flag on his shoulder...its inversed!







muhammadali233 said:


> which wax does BAF uses to polish its F-7s?Most Immaculate 7's I've seen.



Thats because our ones are well maintained.

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## Bilal9

~Phoenix~ said:


> Look at the US flag on his shoulder...its inversed!



The photo was probably flipped sideways.....


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## ~Phoenix~

Bilal9 said:


> The photo was probably flipped sideways.....



I noticed that in other uniforms in US soldiers as well as on video games as well...whats the kacha-morich behind it?


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## Bilal9

~Phoenix~ said:


> I noticed that in other uniforms in US soldiers as well as on video games as well...whats the kacha-morich behind it?



Okay, mystery solved.

"The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “*the star field faces forward*, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and *gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward*. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’."

http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html

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## Arthur

It looks like no C 130B replacement is coming. The EDA transfer from USA isn't going to happen.

BAF should start looking for an alternative supplier.


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## TopCat

Khan saheb said:


> It looks like no C 130B replacement is coming. The EDA transfer from USA isn't going to happen.
> 
> BAF should start looking for an alternative supplier.


EDA?


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## Species

TopCat said:


> EDA?



Excess Defence Articles

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## ~Phoenix~



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## Bilal9

Khan saheb said:


> It looks like no C 130B replacement is coming. The EDA transfer from USA isn't going to happen.
> 
> BAF should start looking for an alternative supplier.



The C130B's are too old anyways. Airframe time between overhauls is too frequent. We should look for newer ones. A few C130H models won't break the Air Force's budget too much.

We can always get the Chinese equivalent - Shaanxi Yun-9 (Y-9). Pakistan Air Force has been using these. I don't know what their experience is with them. They seem well-proven and were derived from Soviet An-12 of the 1960's (newer props, nose and powerplants).

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> The C130B's are too old anyways. Airframe time between overhauls is too frequent. We should look for newer ones. A few C130H models won't break the Air Force's budget too much.
> 
> We can always get the Chinese equivalent - Shaanxi Yun-9 (Y-9). Pakistan Air Force has been using these. I don't know what their experience is with them. They seem well-proven and were derived from Soviet An-12 of the 1960's (newer props, nose and powerplants).


Y 9 would be a good platform to induct. Considering China can offer us AEW, AWACS, EW, SIGNIT,MPA- ASW platforms on the Y9 airframe & even if needed they can offer aerial refueling platform based on it. So I believe it will be wise to change to Y-9 as the backbone of our aerial transport fleet.

Commonalty between various platforms means easy training for crew and technicians, good maintenance and logistics will ensure low cost & higher availability.

-----
There might be another option for BAF.

The Y-30.

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## Bilal9

Khan saheb said:


> Y 9 would be a good platform to induct. Considering China can offer us AEW, AWACS, EW, SIGNIT,MPA- ASW platforms on the Y9 airframe & even if needed they can offer aerial refueling platform based on it. So I believe it will be wise to change to Y-9 as the backbone of our aerial transport fleet.
> 
> Commonalty of various platforms, easy training for crew and technicians, good maintenance and logistics will ensure low cost & higher availability.
> 
> -----
> There might be another option for BAF.
> 
> The Y-30.
> 
> View attachment 352991



Agreed Y-30 is better option but still in development.

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## Arthur

*New Chinese Airlifter Could Enter Service In 2020s*
AWIN First
Bradley Perrett
Nov 11, 2014







A Chinese airlifter revealed by Avic this week will go into service in the 2020s if the factory behind the project, Shaanxi Aircraft, is given a go-ahead.

The program is at the stage of concept design, say Chinese industry officials. It should be launched into full-scale development in about two years, they add. If it is, and if development is smooth, a first flight could take place in 2020.

The air force does want such an aircraft, the officials say, expecting the type to become China’s main airlifter. The Global Times identifies the aircraft as the previously reported Y-30.

The Y-30 would have almost the same gross weight as the Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules, about 80 metric tons (176,000 lb.), but payload is intended to be 30 tons, compared with 19.6 tons of the U.S. aircraft. The type has apparently grown during the studies, since Avic has previously mentioned plans for a transport aircraft of about 60 tons gross weight.

As displayed in model form at Airshow China at Zhuhai this week, the aircraft has four turboprop engines, but many conceptual designs are under consideration, some with turbofan propulsion. An option for the turboprop is the WJ-16 engine, which is a new engine at an unknown stage of development and is supposed to generate 3,782 kW (5,072 hp.).

If jet propulsion is chosen there would be two engines, so the aircraft would be quite comparable in configuration to theEmbraer KC-390. The officials did not name the possible jet engine, but the likely candidate is the WS-20 engine under development for the much larger Y-20 heavy transport, the design gross weight of which is more than 200 tons.

The WS-20 in its current form is not at all a advanced engine, say other industry officials.

The maximum speed of the Y-30 will be 600-700 kph (370-440 mph.) and the range with payload will be 6,000-7,000 km.

Materials cannot be chosen at this early stage, but but some composites will be used.

Shaanxi Aircraft is the medium-airlifter specialist of Avic Aircraft, an Avic subsidiary that focuses on building large airplanes and their parts. It currently builds the Y-9, which is in the same class as the new aircraft and is derived from the Y-8, a Chinese version of the Antonov An-12.

The new aircraft would be wider than the Y-8, Y-9 and C-130, officials say. This is an important selling point, because the Chinese armed forces are not satisfied with the cargo dimensions of the Y-8 and Y-9.

Xian Aircraft, also part of Avic Aircraft, has developed the Y-20, the designation of which is now officially confirmed by Avic.

Chinese officials have also mentioned plans for a transport between the Y-20 and Y-30 in size. This appears to be the Y-19. The engine of the Y-19 is reportedly the WJ-10 of 5,000 kW, though that power would suggest a gross weight of perhaps only 110 tons, or less if high performance is wanted. Again, turbofan propulsion has ben considered and may still be under study, because officials say the program has not been launched.

Since the air force cannot urgently need three new airlifters—one of 80 tons, one of more than 200 tons and another in between—the Y-19 and Y-30 may compete for funding.


http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/new-chinese-airlifter-could-enter-service-2020s


----------
@Bilal9 

BAF should consider investing in the project & place order. That will be good for them.

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## Bilal9

Khan saheb said:


> BAF should consider investing in the project & place order. That will be good for them.



I agree. Though the investment is usually made when the proposing country makes parts for said program (which we don't). It's called a risk-sharing partner. I think however there is plenty of demand from China itself.

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## ~Phoenix~



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## asad71

For a clue let us look at what India has imposed on Nepal. Nepal has not been allowed to have an air force. They have an Air Service flying transports and some unarmed choppers. *The same model is being pushed into BD.*


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## ~Phoenix~

asad71 said:


> For a clue let us look at what India has imposed on Nepal. Nepal has not been allowed to have an air force. They have an Air Service flying transports and some unarmed choppers. *The same model is being pushed into BD.*




Unfortunately,we have a *CHINA™ Card*. They also have our Govt. in their pockets as well.


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## TopCat

asad71 said:


> For a clue let us look at what India has imposed on Nepal. Nepal has not been allowed to have an air force. They have an Air Service flying transports and some unarmed choppers. *The same model is being pushed into BD.*



Airforce is very expensive. If you want an offensive airforce your defence budget will pile up in billions. Its wise to build them up gradually.

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## asad71

TopCat said:


> Airforce is very expensive. If you want an offensive airforce your defence budget will pile up in billions. Its wise to build them up gradually.



But what is happening is the opposite. BAF is degrading itself gradually. Except appointing an ACM whereas this deserves a Gp Capt/Air Commodore to command.


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## ~Phoenix~

asad71 said:


> But what is happening is the opposite. BAF is degrading itself gradually. Except appointing an ACM whereas this deserves a Gp Capt/Air Commodore to command.



Please spread your propaganda somewhere else.No one believes someone who thinks terrorism as "patriotic"

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## mb444

asad71 said:


> But what is happening is the opposite. BAF is degrading itself gradually. Except appointing an ACM whereas this deserves a Gp Capt/Air Commodore to command.




I agree in some regards with you. BAF has been materially neglected for many decades.

The yak purchase I have mixed feeling about. 

Unfortunately for us the choices are very limited without even considering the monetary aspect.


Western birds comes with political, economic and strategic strings. Russian option comes with the danger of their alliance with India. This only leaves the Chinese option. China export offering is limited. What can we really buy from china as a front line fighter at this moment .... nothing. The reality is BD has to wait until china pipelines open up. In the mean time BD will most likely buy some more migs to keep the show on the road. 

The future of BAF in the short term is not positive. 

If it was up to me I would begin research and production of indeginious SAM systems to deny operational capacity to enemy fighters over our skies and beyond. I would open up a forth branch of the military dedicated for this purpose just like Iran. We can secure our airspace and beyond with effective missile systems cheaply and quickly. BAF lacks deterrence capacity at the moment, until assets acquisition is a possibility as a country we need to follow examples of other nations who faced similar issues and overcame the shortfalls innovatively.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> I agree in some regards with you. BAF has been materially neglected for many decades.
> 
> The yak purchase I have mixed feeling about.
> 
> Unfortunately for us the choices are very limited without even considering the monetary aspect.
> 
> 
> Western birds comes with political, economic and strategic strings. Russian option comes with the danger of their alliance with India. This only leaves the Chinese option. China export offering is limited. What can we really buy from china as a front line fighter at this moment .... nothing. The reality is BD has to wait until china pipelines open up. In the mean time BD will most likely buy some more migs to keep the show on the road.
> 
> The future of BAF in the short term is not positive.
> 
> If it was up to me I would begin research and production of indeginious SAM systems to deny operational capacity to enemy fighters over our skies and beyond. I would open up a forth branch of the military dedicated for this purpose just like Iran. We can secure our airspace and beyond with effective missile systems cheaply and quickly. BAF lacks deterrence capacity at the moment, until assets acquisition is a possibility as a country we need to follow examples of other nations who faced similar issues and overcame the shortfalls innovatively.



I won't be too much off the mark if I say the Chinese won't trust us with their best birds considering that we have an alliance of sorts with Indian Govt. Maybe JF-17 but certainly not the J-10 or variants.


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## Avicenna

Bangladesh should focus on her economy for the time being. On a political level Bangladesh should be more friendly with China and the US as well as Pakistan. Despite past history.


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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> I won't be too much off the mark if I say the Chinese won't trust us with their best birds considering that we have an alliance of sorts with Indian Govt. Maybe JF-17 but certainly not the J-10 or variants.




BD has no alliance with India. BD is strategically china centric, their second biggest defence customer and I do not believe there would be any such issues. This is a point that hindutva trolls propagate to make themselves feel better.

JF-17 is still reliant on russian engines. and for whatever reasons has been rejected by BAF... until J10 goes into full production after meeting the still unresolved technical challenges I do not see any issues with the chinese selling them to us. But that is atleast a decade away. 

our problem remains.... we can not buy any new front line jets that serves are security considerations fully at this point in time.

there are only three options..... wait for the chinese or join a consortium of countries seeking to produce fighter jets or get on board the only successful non western/non russian jet is active use...

First option is self explanatory and I believe is the option being exercised .

In respect of the second option there are only the Korean or the turkish option.... however not sure we have the funds or the political will for such a venture. Additionally both the ventures have stalled or are very slow moving given technical challenges and funding issues. 

The last option consider JF17s , more recent blocks..... in the guise of a new name in the same mould as F7s bought from china. Realistically if BD wants to induct something within 5 years with possibly partial technology transfer then that is the way to go. 

But given BAF acquisition and statement it is fairly clear whats going to happen..... max 2 squadrons of migs....my view they will probably buy no more than half a squadron and possibly 2 trainers and thats it for the next 5-10 years. They will induct more raders, helios etc. Anything else is pipe dream.


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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> In respect of the second option there are only the Korean or the turkish option.... however not sure we have the funds or the political will for such a venture. Additionally both the ventures have stalled or are very slow moving given technical challenges and funding issues.



The Korean and Turkish fighter programs are both relatively new (compared to Chinese/Brazilian programs) and will face significant challenges technically as you said, especially Turkey. Korea made its first foreign aircraft sale just a few years ago to Indonesia (Woongbi prop trainer) and nothing since...and that too was an 'inspiration' (knockoff) of the Brazilian Super Tucano. The Turkish also have a similar bird (Hurkus) which can double as a COIN platform. Turkey, Brazil and Korea are both in that level of development where they build okay prop-trainers but sourcing fighter jet aircraft from them will be a questionable venture at this time.

Maybe we can start our aircraft program by way of a turboprop-trainer and doing a joint venture and ToT by one of these aircrafts from the countries below.

Korean KAI KT-1 Woongbi






Brazilian EMB-314 Super Tucano





Super Tucano is also used in Afghanistan by the US as ALX or A-29.





Turkish TAI Hurkus





We were supposed to get CJ-6 replacements from China in the form of the Hongdu/Yakovlev CJ-7 but I don't know what happened. Maybe still in trials and testing.








mb444 said:


> But given BAF acquisition and statement it is fairly clear whats going to happen..... max 2 squadrons of migs....my view they will probably buy no more than half a squadron and possibly 2 trainers and thats it for the next 5-10 years. They will induct more raders, helios etc. Anything else is pipe dream.



Agreed on all points...

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## mb444

I believe BAF has plans to develop/assemble basic trainer in the next few years. should not be a problem, kit planes are easy to buy, assemble a few, then begin modifying them and develop own bespoke model.

These cost nothing $30,000 upwards and take about 1500hrs to build.

http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/30_12/buyers_guide/2014_buyers_guide_20885-1.html 

If there is a will an indigenously designed basic BAF trainer can be up and running in 1.5-2 years max. these will be the first trainers that potential pilots will fly to master basics of flying.

BD should begin with basic turbo prop trainers and move to basic turboprop small commercial aircraft to launch basic aviation industry. I am also for opening up these venturers to the private sectors rather than BAF trying to do it all on its own. 

BD needs to build its own defence industry and it is time to lift the ban on public sector engaging in defence related manufacturing.

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## Michael Corleone

masud said:


> The big fat Ukrainian was in town once again!


Big fat Ukrainian eh!? 

What happened to @Nilgiri he doesn't sound like himself anymore. Oh btw Hello guys. Good to be back.


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## muhammadali233

Bilal9 said:


> The C130B's are too old anyways. Airframe time between overhauls is too frequent. We should look for newer ones. A few C130H models won't break the Air Force's budget too much.
> 
> We can always get the Chinese equivalent - Shaanxi Yun-9 (Y-9). Pakistan Air Force has been using these. I don't know what their experience is with them. They seem well-proven and were derived from Soviet An-12 of the 1960's (newer props, nose and powerplants).


Only 4 modified Y-8 are in current service known here as ZDK-03 AEW&C,no Y-9 are in service.




Y-8 is comparable to C-130 in payload capacity whereas Y-9 is more comparable to C-130J.
The best western replacement for C-130 is C-130J or A-400M.
Chinese is Y-9 or Y-20,Russian IL-76.
Or you can always wait for the upcoming Indian transport aircraft.

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## bluesky

Bilal9 said:


> I won't be too much off the mark if I say the Chinese won't trust us with their best birds considering that we have an alliance of sorts with Indian Govt. Maybe JF-17 but certainly not the J-10 or variants.


Question is not Chinese goodwill and trust of BD. Question is if BAF has the need, willingness and the needed infrastructure to acquire big birds. China would not have sold any equipment to us if it had no trust.


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> Question is not Chinese goodwill and trust of BD. Question is if BAF has the need, willingness and the needed infrastructure to acquire big birds. China would not have sold any equipment to us if it had no trust.


Well spoken. Also to add to the point that the engines adopted for j-10 isn't doing too well! Both the Chinese variant and the other had multiple engine failure crashes. :/
But china is more willing to sell j-31 to foreign military... Pakistan has shown deep interest. If Bangladesh cash in along with Pakistan... the developmental cost that comes along can be shared and reduced... thanks to larger order.

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## Bilal9

muhammadali233 said:


> you can always wait for the upcoming Indian transport aircraft.



That project (if you are referring to the UAC *Il-214* Multi-role *Transport* Aircraft aka MTA) has been 'frozen' by the Russians. Not happening.

Also - Bangladesh has never set a precedent to purchase Indian defense products and if they do so now - it'll be quite a surprise.

I think if one is looking for a non-Chinese option, then the *Embraer KC-390* is a great option. The Brazilians wanted a C-130 replacement and it is their solution with two jet engines, having a payload of 23 tons. It is also cheaper than the C-130 at 50 Million per airplane. The C-130 costs 62 Million I believe.






Another much larger model is the *Kawasaki C-2* at $100 Million plus with impressive specs, sized halfway between C-130 and C-17. Uses CF-6 engines used in the older 747's and DC-10's, but maybe this is way larger than Bangladesh' current logistics needs.















Capacity in tons (Blue) and cost in Million US$(Red) comparison

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> That project (if you are referring to the UAC *Il-214* Multi-role *Transport* Aircraft aka MTA) has been 'frozen' by the Russians. Not happening.
> 
> Also - Bangladesh has never set a precedent to purchase Indian defense products and if they do so now - it'll be quite a surprise.
> 
> I think if one is looking for a non-Chinese option, then the *Embraer KC-390* is a great option. The Brazilians wanted a C-130 replacement and it is their solution with two jet engines, having a payload of 23 tons. It is also cheaper than the C-130 at 50 Million per airplane. The C-130 costs 62 Million I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another much larger model is the *Kawasaki C-2* at $100 Million plus with impressive specs, sized halfway between C-130 and C-17. Uses CF-6 engines used in the older 747's and DC-10's, but maybe this is way larger than Bangladesh' current logistics needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capacity in tons (Blue) and cost in Million US$(Red) comparison


Personally wouldn't go with Kawasaki c-2 because I think it's overkill not good bang for the buck and the old 747 engines are inefficient gas guzzlers. 
Kc-390 c130j30 a400m should be looked into. They're impressive for the money I think.


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## bluesky

Bilal9 said:


> We can always get the Chinese equivalent - *Shaanxi Yun-9 (Y-9)*. Pakistan Air Force has been using these. I don't know what their experience is with them. They seem well-proven and were derived from Soviet An-12 of the 1960's (newer props, nose and powerplants).


*Flight Specifications of the Chinese Shaangsi Yun-9 (Y-9) Transport Plane

*
1) Flight crew 4
2) Cargo cabin size (length/width/height) 16.2m/3.2m/2.35m
3) Empty weight 39,000kg
4) Overloading take-off weight 81,000kg
5) Maximum take-off weight 65,000 kg / 77,000kg
6) Maximum landing weight 77,000kg
7) Operational empty weight 39,000kg
8) Payload 20t or 106 paratroopers:
- Normal 25,000kg
- Maximum 30,000kg;
- 132 armed paratroopers or vehicles and weapons
9) Loading capacity: quick loading/unloading, can load nine international standard pallets of 108"×88" or eight 125"×96", low-altitude airdrop ability, airdrop weight of 20t once, max. single cargo weight (10t), airdrop of 132 parachutists at a time
10) Turboprop engines: large power, lightweight, low consumption, high reliability, easy maintenance
propellers made of advanced composite materials, high efficiency, low noise, light weight
11) max level speed 650km/h
Cruising speed 550km/h / 600~650km/h
Cruising altitude 8,000m- 9,000m
12) service ceiling height: 10,100m
13) -Range 2,200km 15t payload
-Range 5,000km max range
-Range 7,800km Ferry range
14) Flight endurance: 12 hours
15) Total body life 50000 flight hours / 20000 flight sortie/30 calendar years
16) Avionics: advanced communication system, navigation system, radar system, EFIS, integrated engine indication system, flight management system (FMS), autopilot (AP), GPS / inertial navigation equipment, electrical system, etc.


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Big fat Ukrainian eh!?
> 
> What happened to @Nilgiri he doesn't sound like himself anymore. Oh btw Hello guys. Good to be back.



The big fat ukrainian gals got to me

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## Bilal9

bluesky said:


> *Flight Specifications of the Chinese Shaangsi Yun-9 (Y-9) Transport Plane
> 
> *
> 1) Flight crew 4
> 2) Cargo cabin size (length/width/height) 16.2m/3.2m/2.35m
> 3) Empty weight 39,000kg
> 4) Overloading take-off weight 81,000kg
> 5) Maximum take-off weight 65,000 kg / 77,000kg
> 6) Maximum landing weight 77,000kg
> 7) Operational empty weight 39,000kg
> 8) Payload 20t or 106 paratroopers:
> - Normal 25,000kg
> - Maximum 30,000kg;
> - 132 armed paratroopers or vehicles and weapons
> 9) Loading capacity: quick loading/unloading, can load nine international standard pallets of 108"×88" or eight 125"×96", low-altitude airdrop ability, airdrop weight of 20t once, max. single cargo weight (10t), airdrop of 132 parachutists at a time
> 10) Turboprop engines: large power, lightweight, low consumption, high reliability, easy maintenance
> propellers made of advanced composite materials, high efficiency, low noise, light weight
> 11) max level speed 650km/h
> Cruising speed 550km/h / 600~650km/h
> Cruising altitude 8,000m- 9,000m
> 12) service ceiling height: 10,100m
> 13) -Range 2,200km 15t payload
> -Range 5,000km max range
> -Range 7,800km Ferry range
> 14) Flight endurance: 12 hours
> 15) Total body life 50000 flight hours / 20000 flight sortie/30 calendar years
> 16) Avionics: advanced communication system, navigation system, radar system, EFIS, integrated engine indication system, flight management system (FMS), autopilot (AP), GPS / inertial navigation equipment, electrical system, etc.

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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> The big fat ukrainian gals got to me


Will definitely share tanks sams and fighter jets photos once I am free.

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## Daniel808

mb444 said:


> I agree in some regards with you. BAF has been materially neglected for many decades.
> 
> The yak purchase I have mixed feeling about.
> 
> Unfortunately for us the choices are very limited without even considering the monetary aspect.
> 
> 
> Western birds comes with political, economic and strategic strings. Russian option comes with the danger of their alliance with India. This only leaves the Chinese option. China export offering is limited. What can we really buy from china as a front line fighter at this moment .... nothing. The reality is BD has to wait until china pipelines open up. In the mean time BD will most likely buy some more migs to keep the show on the road.
> 
> The future of BAF in the short term is not positive.
> 
> If it was up to me I would begin research and production of indeginious SAM systems to deny operational capacity to enemy fighters over our skies and beyond. I would open up a forth branch of the military dedicated for this purpose just like Iran. We can secure our airspace and beyond with effective missile systems cheaply and quickly. BAF lacks deterrence capacity at the moment, until assets acquisition is a possibility as a country we need to follow examples of other nations who faced similar issues and overcame the shortfalls innovatively.





Bilal9 said:


> I won't be too much off the mark if I say the Chinese won't trust us with their best birds considering that we have an alliance of sorts with Indian Govt. Maybe JF-17 but certainly not the J-10 or variants.




I wonder, why BD don't go for Chengdu J-10B as their Next Front line fighters?

Chengdu J-10B already in Full Production right now.
China's itself already show Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016 yesterday, that's mean they are Ready to export J-10B for other countries.
https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-58
https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-60



I think Bangladesh Economy is capable enough to support Bangladesh Air Force procurement of one Squadron of new fighters.

*Chengdu J-10B Information and Analysis
http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.co.id/p/fighters-ii.html#J-10B*


*Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016



















*
Hope Bangladesh would consider Xian Y-20 Strategic Airlifter too in the future.

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## masud

Daniel808 said:


> I wonder, why BD don't go for Chengdu J-10B as their Next Front line fighters?
> 
> Chengdu J-10B already in Full Production right now.
> China's itself already show Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016 yesterday, that's mean they are Ready to export J-10B for other countries.
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-58
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-60
> 
> 
> 
> I think Bangladesh Economy is capable enough to support Bangladesh Air Force procurement of one Squadron of new fighters.
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B Information and Analysis
> http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.co.id/p/fighters-ii.html#J-10B*
> 
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016
> View attachment 355915
> 
> View attachment 355916
> 
> View attachment 355917
> 
> View attachment 355918
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Hope Bangladesh would consider Xian Y-20 Strategic Airlifter too in the future.
> View attachment 355919
> 
> View attachment 355920


My view......
J-10B yes
Y-20 no

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## Daniel808

masud said:


> My view......
> J-10B yes
> Y-20 no



For Y-20, maybe in "Civilian version" for Special purpose 


*Xian Y-20 Strategic Airlifter "Civilian Version" in Zhuhai Airshow 2016*

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## masud

Daniel808 said:


> For Y-20, maybe in "Civilian version" for Special purpose
> 
> 
> *Xian Y-20 Strategic Airlifter "Civilian Version" in Zhuhai Airshow 2016*
> View attachment 355925
> 
> View attachment 355923


I Think Bangladesh biman (civilien verson) will chose more Boeing 777-300ER.....

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## TopCat

masud said:


> I Think Bangladesh biman (civilien verson) will chose more Boeing 777-300ER.....



Next batch 787, already ordered.


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## masud

TopCat said:


> Next batch 787, already ordered.


then a very good desition..........i think.


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## Michael Corleone

Daniel808 said:


> I wonder, why BD don't go for Chengdu J-10B as their Next Front line fighters?
> 
> Chengdu J-10B already in Full Production right now.
> China's itself already show Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016 yesterday, that's mean they are Ready to export J-10B for other countries.
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-58
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-60
> 
> 
> 
> I think Bangladesh Economy is capable enough to support Bangladesh Air Force procurement of one Squadron of new fighters.
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B Information and Analysis
> http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.co.id/p/fighters-ii.html#J-10B*
> 
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016
> View attachment 355915
> 
> View attachment 355916
> 
> View attachment 355917
> 
> View attachment 355918
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Hope Bangladesh would consider Xian Y-20 Strategic Airlifter too in the future.
> View attachment 355919
> 
> View attachment 355920


What's keeping us away from j-10 is engine issues and support. Otherwise... pretty good choice.

Funny thing is easy to convert civilian plane for military use.

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## bluesky

*Forces Goal 2030

Air Force*
"Forces Goal 2030 plans to make the Bangladesh Air Force a technologically advanced, well-trained and well-equipped force that can deter any threat. These plans emphasize strengthening air power and air defense capabilities.

The Air Force bought modern radar systems. JH-16 and YLC-2 radar systems were procured from China in 2013, while JY-11B[15] systems were to be delivered. Gamma DE[16] and Kasta 2E radar systems purchased from Russia under the $1 billion defense deal were to be delivered in 2016. Air Force also ordered Selex RAT-31DLradar from Italy in 2016.[17]

In 2011, BAF inducted its first SAM system, the FM 90, from China. In 2014, BAF procured one regiment of LY-80E medium range SAM systems which were to be delivered in 2015.

In 2016 12 new PT-6 Basic trainers were to be procured to replace the fleet of old PT-6s. BAF procured nine K-8 Advance jet trainers to complement the fleet of seven L-39s. In 2015, BAF added three Let L-410 Turbolets into a newly formed squadron of Transport trainers. The Air Force also procured 16 Yakovlev Yak-130 Lead-in fighter trainer aircraft from Russia. The first six aircraft were delivered while the other ten were to be delivered in 2016.

The Bangladesh Air Force procured eleven Mil Mi-171Sh helicopters from Russia from 2010 to 2015 that can be used for both transport and attack roles. BAF also procured two AgustaWestland AW139 helicopters from Italy for maritime SAR operations. One Mil Mi-171E helicopter and five Mil Mi-171Sh helicopters are on order.

Four Lockheed C-130 Hercules were to be procured from the US Air Force, along with 20 Rolls-Royce T56 engines, training and other equipment and services associated with the upgrade.

BAF intended to acquire ten squadrons of 4++ generation fighters by 2030. These ten squadrons were to consist of four multirole and six air superiority squadrons. BAF planned to have at least four squadrons of 4++ generation fighters by 2021.

Two new bases were set up, Bangabandhu air base at Dhaka and another forward operation base at Cox’s Bazar.

The government set up Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre in Dhaka to attain self-sufficiency in building and maintaining aircraft. An overhaul plant for F-7 aircraft were set up for maintenance of BAFs F-7 fleet. With Russian assistance, another maintenance plant for Mi-17 helicopters is under development there.

On 25 January 2015, Minister for Public Administration Syed Ashraful Islam said that the government planned to buy multirole combat aircraft, medium range fixed wingtransport aircraft and helicopter trainer".[18]


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## ~Phoenix~

Daniel808 said:


> I wonder, why BD don't go for Chengdu J-10B as their Next Front line fighters?
> 
> Chengdu J-10B already in Full Production right now.
> China's itself already show Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016 yesterday, that's mean they are Ready to export J-10B for other countries.
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-58
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-60
> 
> 
> 
> I think Bangladesh Economy is capable enough to support Bangladesh Air Force procurement of one Squadron of new fighters.
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B Information and Analysis
> http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.co.id/p/fighters-ii.html#J-10B*
> 
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016
> View attachment 355915
> 
> View attachment 355916
> 
> View attachment 355917
> 
> View attachment 355918
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Hope Bangladesh would consider Xian Y-20 Strategic Airlifter too in the future.
> View attachment 355919
> 
> View attachment 355920



We are already considering J-10s but we ordered 4 C-130s so don't expect Y-20s anytime soon.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> We are already considering J-10s but we ordered 4 C-130s so don't expect Y-20s anytime soon.


I heard we didn't order c-130 after all?
Also isn't sukhoi mig and f-16 being considered for future purchase?


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## Gandh brandi

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I heard we didn't order c-130 after all?
> Also isn't sukhoi mig and f-16 being considered for future purchase?


F-16? pffffttt


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## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> F-16? pffffttt


Pretty weird things going on in circulation since the time we made the Russian deal


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Pretty weird things going on in circulation since the time we made the Russian deal



That Sybaris Caesar guy is a rohingya!


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## mb444

Daniel808 said:


> I wonder, why BD don't go for Chengdu J-10B as their Next Front line fighters?
> 
> Chengdu J-10B already in Full Production right now.
> China's itself already show Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016 yesterday, that's mean they are Ready to export J-10B for other countries.
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-58
> https://defence.pk/threads/zhuhai-airshow-china-2016.456208/page-60
> 
> 
> 
> I think Bangladesh Economy is capable enough to support Bangladesh Air Force procurement of one Squadron of new fighters.
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B Information and Analysis
> http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.co.id/p/fighters-ii.html#J-10B*
> 
> 
> *Chengdu J-10B in Zhuhai Airshow 2016
> View attachment 355915
> 
> View attachment 355916
> 
> View attachment 355917
> 
> View attachment 355918
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Hope Bangladesh would consider Xian Y-20 Strategic Airlifter too in the future.
> View attachment 355919
> 
> View attachment 355920




From my understanding there is two production lines of j10s .... one with Russian engines and one with Chinese engines.

With Russian engine J10, china will require Russian agreement to sell. From a BD perspective we are already direct Russian customers... this will complicate matters and for the price it may be better to go with migs or SUs. The point for BD is we want procure defence equipment with minimal baggage. We have bought F7 derivatives from china with Russian engines before offcourse, but these weren't competing with Russian offerings directly which the J10s are. 

What BD want is Chinese fighters, unfortunately the Chinese engines is still buggy and is going through the final development phase. I would say fully perfected mass produced j10s is still 10 years away. I think BD will wait for it and as I said will probably buy half a sqd of migs and that's it.

The only other scenario I see is if BAF thinks the Chinese option is too far way before it is realised then BAF will go all in with several sqd of migs and couple of sqd of SUs.

I personally do not believe BAF will buy any F16 (even second hand) or any western fighters. BAF in time will primarily be composed of Chinese jets as we have common strategic outlook that won't change. Every other player in the field will have fluctuating and changing interest, which is not the basis of long term alliance .

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## TopCat

J-10 from china su-30 from russia is the best composition. We must have to keep a batch of chinese fighter for strategic reason.

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## ~Phoenix~

TopCat said:


> J-10 from china su-30 from russia is the best composition. We must have to keep a batch of chinese fighter for strategic reason.



60% of our defence equipment is from China,so you don't have to worry about that.

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## Bheemsen

~Phoenix~ said:


> 60% of our defence equipment is from China,so you don't have to worry about that.


Oh bangali Oh bangali look what your ABBA is doing  http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...xinjiang-mainland-halal-government-wang-zuoan


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## ~Phoenix~

Bheemsen said:


> Oh bangali Oh bangali look what your ABBA is doing  http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...xinjiang-mainland-halal-government-wang-zuoan



Yes,even Bangladesh is against extremism.

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## Michael Corleone

Now subs are checked... next purchase must be for the Air Force eh?  fingers crossed


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## Gandh brandi

~Phoenix~ said:


> That Sybaris Caesar guy is a rohingya!


Dafuq! My secret is OUT!!! How did you find out, boy?


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## Gandh brandi

BTW how compromised do you think russian/chinese systems are against western machines, aviators and tactics. There's a stereotype soviet-russian/chinese air force can't do anything without ground operators telling them what to do. And I believe during 80s a soviet engineer defected to the west with critical data about soviet air force and not to mention Mig platform as a whole was compromised after U.S. got them after german reunification. It's said that the reason U.S. got so overwhelming aerial victory against Iraqi air force was because/contributed by this very reason.


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## TopCat

Sybaris Caeser said:


> BTW how compromised do you think russian/chinese systems are against western machines, aviators and tactics. There's a stereotype soviet-russian/chinese air force can't do anything without ground operators telling them what to do. And I believe during 80s a soviet engineer defected to the west with critical data about soviet air force and not to mention Mig platform as a whole was compromised after U.S. got them after german reunification. It's said that the reason U.S. got so overwhelming aerial victory against Iraqi air force was because/contributed by this very reason.


4 SU-35 can secure entire BD airspace including Indian NE with ease. Only F-15C can come close to their potency.

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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> 4 SU-35 can secure entire BD airspace including Indian NE with ease. Only F-15C can come close to their potency.

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## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> BTW how compromised do you think russian/chinese systems are against western machines, aviators and tactics. There's a stereotype soviet-russian/chinese air force can't do anything without ground operators telling them what to do. And I believe during 80s a soviet engineer defected to the west with critical data about soviet air force and not to mention Mig platform as a whole was compromised after U.S. got them after german reunification. It's said that the reason U.S. got so overwhelming aerial victory against Iraqi air force was because/contributed by this very reason.


Nothing like that... yes the mig 29 was totally blown and yes during the soviet times orders were given from ground operations for certain maneuvers etc for the pilot to execute. Blame it in lack of and lagging behind west in computer fire control systems. Since su-30 though... it has improved a lot and now pilots can engage without aid of ground control.

Would say it is the same if not better than westerncounterpart nowadays. Mig had helmet mounted target locker for decades. F35s and f22 have just recently gotten em. 

You can check last years victory parade of Bangladesh in which the pilot was instructed from ground control to pull the nose up and tbh the ground control guy sounded super pissed. You have to look for it carefully.

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## masud



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## Nike

F16 had better kills to loss ratio than Mig 29. Speaking from the perspective of Country who operate Su30 and F16....

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## Michael Corleone

madokafc said:


> F16 had better kills to loss ratio than Mig 29. Speaking from the perspective of Country who operate Su30 and F16....


Fighting against nations whose pilots were absolute rubbish. On paper for ex. F-16 turn rate is 26... 24 with the refuel tank. 
Mig 29 Turn rate is 28... same as f-22 
But then maneuverability didn't help mig to win did it? 
The pilots were just plain douchebag.

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## bd_4_ever

TopCat said:


> 4 SU-35 can secure entire BD airspace including Indian NE with ease. Only F-15C can come close to their potency.



Interesting claim. Could you explain further? What's the price tag of SU-35s now?


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## TopCat

bd_4_ever said:


> Interesting claim. Could you explain further? What's the price tag of SU-35s now?



China bought 24 for 2 billion.


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## bd_4_ever

TopCat said:


> China bought 24 for 2 billion.



Thanks. How about the fact that only 4 can defend our airspace? I know you are generalizing but being specific would help.


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## TopCat

bd_4_ever said:


> Thanks. How about the fact that only 4 can defend our airspace? I know you are generalizing but being specific would help.



You can check the initial Syrian deployment. For a counter measure American deployment of F-15C in inglak airbase.
You have to closely follow the countermeasure to see actual field strength. You cant get it in any book. 
Only 3 Su30 was sent after shooting down of Su-24 by Turkish F-16.


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## Zabaniyah

TopCat said:


> You can check the initial Syrian deployment. For a counter measure American deployment of F-15C in inglak airbase.
> You have to closely follow the countermeasure to see actual field strength. You cant get it in any book.



It's still a generalization. Neither the Americans or the Russians would risk armed conflict with one another. Doing so would give the factions in Syria an advantage along with other consequences.

It is what we require. And not somebody else's requirements.

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## bd_4_ever

SU-35 would be a very potent purchase, no doubt. The only thing I can assume for this long delay in fighter purchase is that BAF is considering all options and will come up with the best. Having said that, I am pretty darn sure it will be Russian. Getting YAKs as trainers was a major indication towards that. As @TopCat mentioned, 24 for 2 billion to China is a good news. We can afford it quite easily, given our current standing of our economy.

I would recommend sourcing fighters from Russia and keeping army and naval purchases from China. South Korea is also a viable option for the latter. What is interesting is that we have not looked towards Europe for major military purchases apart from radios, communication devices and Noras. This is quite intriguing as Europe does have good military industry but not too sure if its the cost factor or strings attached.


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## Zabaniyah

bd_4_ever said:


> SU-35 would be a very potent purchase, no doubt. The only thing I can assume for this long delay in fighter purchase is that BAF is considering all options and will come up with the best. Having said that, I am pretty darn sure it will be Russian. Getting YAKs as trainers was a major indication towards that. As @TopCat mentioned, 24 for 2 billion to China is a good news. We can afford it quite easily, given our current standing of our economy.
> 
> I would recommend sourcing fighters from Russia and keeping army and naval purchases from China. South Korea is also a viable option for the latter. What is interesting is that we have not looked towards Europe for major military purchases apart from radios, communication devices and Noras. This is quite intriguing as Europe does have good military industry but not too sure if its the cost factor or strings attached.



Having a heavy fighter as our backbone is not rational. The Su-35 has got teeth, no doubt. But as with all Flankers, they are heavy. They are called 'flying tanks' for a reason..

And neither would it be rational to source sensitive parts all the way from Russia. 

The Yak-130 is a good trainer. It gives us many options ranging from a MiG-29 to a F-35 (yes, it can simulate Western fighters). 

The choice of the plane would depend on the air force's doctrine. What is their doctrine? We do not know. The Israelis have a beautiful doctrine that determine the SOP's for counter-BVR tactics, SEAD/DEAD operations, etc. Again, the Israeli part was a very general description, but we have seen and heard of them in action haven't we? 

It is not a matter of which plane we choose. It is all a matter of formulating a doctrine that would satisfy our security needs which in turn would determine what aircraft we need. This is one determinant that we should not disregard. 

Money shouldn't be a factor. 

Another thing: Our leadership need to actually listen to our military people. This is very important. And something I feel had not been practiced for decades. If that's not the case, there really isn't much hope. It is high time that our armed forces are a proper fighting force to reckon with. At least, so much so that some old geezer from next door wouldn't have the audacity to suggest 'upgrading' our military.

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## TopCat

Loki said:


> Having a heavy fighter as our backbone is not rational. The Su-35 has got teeth, no doubt. But as with all Flankers, they are heavy. They are called 'flying tanks' for a reason..
> 
> And neither would it be rational to source sensitive parts all the way from Russia.
> 
> The Yak-130 is a good trainer. It gives us many options ranging from a MiG-29 to a F-35 (yes, it can simulate Western fighters).
> 
> The choice of the plane would depend on the air force's doctrine. What is their doctrine? We do not know. The Israelis have a beautiful doctrine that determine the SOP's for counter-BVR tactics, SEAD/DEAD operations, etc. Again, the Israeli part was a very general description, but we have seen and heard of them in action haven't we?
> 
> It is not a matter of which plane we choose. It is all a matter of formulating a doctrine that would satisfy our security needs which in turn would determine what aircraft we need. This is one determinant that we should not disregard.
> 
> Money shouldn't be a factor.
> 
> Another thing: Our leadership need to actually listen to our military people. This is very important. And something I feel had not been practiced for decades. If that's not the case, there really isn't much hope. It is high time that our armed forces are a proper fighting force to reckon with. At least, so much so that some old geezer from next door wouldn't have the audacity to suggest 'upgrading' our military.



You are correct for the defense we dont need Flanker but J-10 or F-16 should be more rational. But looking at land size of our neighbor and their arsenal we must have couple of squadron of long range Flanker. So I would suggest if we want to have have 10 squadron of aircraft then we may have 6 air superiority J-10/F-16/Gripen, 2 Su-35, and 2/4 left over of old junks of F-7s would be great. Mig-29 cant be considered.

It would be great if we could fly 1/2 a squadron of J-10 backed by couple of Flanker with huge PESA radar nobody going to dare flying over Bangladesh airspace in a war scenario.


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## Zabaniyah

TopCat said:


> You are correct for the defense we dont need Flanker but J-10 or F-16 should be more rational. But looking at land size of our neighbor and their arsenal we must have couple of squadron of long range Flanker. So I would suggest if we want to have have 10 squadron of aircraft then we may have 6 air superiority J-10/F-16/Gripen, 2 Su-35, and 2/4 left over of old junks of F-7s would be great. Mig-29 cant be considered.
> 
> It would be great if we could fly 1/2 a squadron of J-10 backed by couple of Flanker with huge PESA radar nobody going to dare flying over Bangladesh airspace in a war scenario.



Well, not only that. We have to sustain and win the war don't we? And that with a dangerously unstable nuclear armed-country run by a religious nut job. Now that is some serious mind-bending we have to do don't we? But there's time for that. 

And like I said, it's all about the doctrine we have in mind. And it has to be the correct doctrine. 

Agreed, a small number of Flankers (or something of similar size) would be sufficient. Despite the pains, the MiG-29's we have now had taught us many important lessons. 

I really liked the J-10. It was perfect. Yet for some reason, it is increasingly falling into obscurity. 

There are many options (good ones) out there. We just need to think, look, network, be creative and know what we need. But first, we really need to put our own house in order. The state of affairs of the ruling party and beyond (particularly at grass-roots level) are not good. We must mitigate those risks. Otherwise, it'd be business as usual and we'll never see the light of day.

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## BDforever

@Loki @TopCat @bd_4_ever my prediction is Mig35 for AF, because BAF already has Mig experience+ less operational cost than Mig 29 but more advanced+ less fly away cost than su series.
But Navy will get Su series


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## Bilal9

Loki said:


> Well, not only that. We have to sustain and win the war don't we? And that with a dangerously unstable nuclear armed-country run by a religious nut job. Now that is some serious mind-bending we have to do don't we? But there's time for that.
> 
> And like I said, it's all about the doctrine we have in mind. And it has to be the correct doctrine.
> 
> Agreed, a small number of Flankers (or something of similar size) would be sufficient. Despite the pains, the MiG-29's we have now had taught us many important lessons.
> 
> I really liked the J-10. It was perfect. Yet for some reason, it is increasingly falling into obscurity.
> 
> There are many options (good ones) out there. We just need to think, look, network, be creative and know what we need. But first, we really need to put our own house in order. The state of affairs of the ruling party and beyond (particularly at grass-roots level) are not good. We must mitigate those risks. Otherwise, it'd be business as usual and we'll never see the light of day.



Excellent posts Loki Bhai.

I'd say though that the following are what I thought were the Bangladesh Defense Doctrine for air force (for *both holding *and *strike forces*).

Exhaust all other avenues (diplomatic etc.) in parallel with activating defensive measures (holding forces).
Utilization of passive defense measures like radar and satellite warning systems along with active defense (holding forces).
Place active point air defense (missile defense and air superiority holding forces) to protect major infra assets
As a last resort - use of limited offensive measures (strike forces) but only to protect our vital interests, to neutralize enemy - only to the extent strictly necessary and only after struck by enemy.
I know that these are very high level principles however *holding and strike force choices for ground attack and air superiority fighters* need to be well thought out in a combat scenario. You are welcome to share your musings.

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> Excellent posts Loki Bhai.
> 
> I'd say though that the following are what I thought were the Bangladesh Defense Doctrine for air force (for *both holding *and *strike forces*).
> 
> Exhaust all other avenues (diplomatic etc.) in parallel with activating defensive measures (holding forces).
> Utilization of passive defense measures like radar and satellite warning systems along with active defense (holding forces).
> Place active point air defense (missile defense and air superiority holding forces) to protect major infra assets
> As a last resort - use of limited offensive measures (strike forces) but only to protect our vital interests, to neutralize enemy - only to the extent strictly necessary and only after struck by enemy.
> I know that these are very high level principles however *holding and strike force choices for ground attack and air superiority fighters* need to be well thought out in a combat scenario. You are welcome to share your musings.



I may add. There few scenarios you need to consider before laying out doctrine.

1) Direct confrontation between Ind/bd
2) Direct confrontation mm/bd
3) Diemrect confrontation Ind/chn where China advances in nortth east when Ind needs air and land passage. BD must have to take a side. If BD allows India the passage right means war against China. If not and Ind push for survival then bd needs enough deterrance
4) Multinational participation in middle east and beyond. We may even need to cover our soldier overseas.


We need to consider all the scenrio before laying out doctrine.

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## bd_4_ever

BDforever said:


> @Loki @TopCat @bd_4_ever my prediction is Mig35 for AF, because BAF already has Mig experience+ less operational cost than Mig 29 but more advanced+ less fly away cost than su series.
> But Navy will get Su series



Reasonable guess but do you think getting Migs after our not-so-good experience with 29s be a wise idea? Not sure how the AF will think.

And are you sure about navy getting SU series? In that case, I would assume their operational HQ will be the forward AF base in that region?

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## asad71

BDforever said:


> @Loki @TopCat @bd_4_ever my prediction is Mig35 for AF, because BAF already has Mig experience+ less operational cost than Mig 29 but more advanced+ less fly away cost than su series.
> But Navy will get Su series



I think you should cancel out BAF's experience with Mig-29. This has been nothing but nightmarish.

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## extra terrestrial

BDforever said:


> @Loki @TopCat @bd_4_ever my prediction is Mig35 for AF, because BAF already has Mig experience+ less operational cost than Mig 29 but more advanced+ less fly away cost than su series.
> But Navy will get Su series



Navy getting Su? They are yet to get even a potent MPA... And given the fact that BAF hasn't yet bought the new generation fighters, fighters for naval air arm is simply beyond the radar...



bd_4_ever said:


> Reasonable guess but do you think getting Migs after our not-so-good experience with 29s be a wise idea? Not sure how the AF will think.



I could be wrong but I guess BAC has acquired (or in the process of acquiring) overhauling capabilities for migs which will reduce the maintenance costs... They can now produce certain spare parts...

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## BDforever

bd_4_ever said:


> Reasonable guess but do you think getting Migs after our not-so-good experience with 29s be a wise idea? Not sure how the AF will think.
> 
> And are you sure about navy getting SU series? In that case, I would assume their operational HQ will be the forward AF base in that region?


1. Mig experience was not bad
2. no, Navy is going to get dedicated fighter aircraft squadron. The kolapara Naval base is going to be epic sized with full aviation support system 


extra terrestrial said:


> Navy getting Su? They are yet to get even a potent MPA... And given the fact that BAF hasn't yet bought the new generation fighters, fighters for naval air arm is simply beyond the radar...

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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> 1. Mig experience was not bad
> 2. no, Navy is going to get dedicated fighter aircraft squadron. The kolapara Naval base is going to be epic sized with full aviation support system



If navy gets a squadron of sukui then airforce will not let go without having 1 or 2 squadron for themselves. They will never allow navy to have stronger airforce than airforce themselves. You have no idea about inter service jealousy.

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## Gandh brandi

May I ask, which plane in our arsenal serves as CAS? To dream about A2A scenarios are great and all but what about A2G? I hope we get drones for those but since attack drone business is primarily western/israeli venture, I won't gat my hopes up.


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## Arthur

Sybaris Caeser said:


> May I ask, which plane in our arsenal serves as CAS? To dream about A2A scenarios are great and all but what about A2G? I hope we get drones for those but since attack drone business is primarily western/israeli venture, I won't gat my hopes up.



Attack drone market is not dominated by western companies anymore. When it comes to military drone platforms for export, China absolutely leads the way.

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## gslv mk3

Loki said:


> And that with a dangerously unstable nuclear armed-country run by a religious nut job



Quite rich, coming from a citizen of an Islamic theocracy which ranks well ahead of us in the fragile states index. 

Keep dreaming though.

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## bigbossman



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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> SU-35 would be a very potent purchase, no doubt. The only thing I can assume for this long delay in fighter purchase is that BAF is considering all options and will come up with the best. Having said that, I am pretty darn sure it will be Russian. Getting YAKs as trainers was a major indication towards that. As @TopCat mentioned, 24 for 2 billion to China is a good news. We can afford it quite easily, given our current standing of our economy.
> 
> I would recommend sourcing fighters from Russia and keeping army and naval purchases from China. South Korea is also a viable option for the latter. What is interesting is that we have not looked towards Europe for major military purchases apart from radios, communication devices and Noras. This is quite intriguing as Europe does have good military industry but not too sure if its the cost factor or strings attached.


I think it will be one squadron at max. It's not rational for a country our size to get two squadrons of heavy fighters for 2 bill. 
I see one squadron and multiple squadrons of lighter fighters like j-10 or mig 29/35 etc.



TopCat said:


> If navy gets a squadron of sukui then airforce will not let go without having 1 or 2 squadron for themselves. They will never allow navy to have stronger airforce than airforce themselves. You have no idea about inter service jealousy.


This statement is giving me goose and maverick vibes.


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## Zabaniyah

gslv mk3 said:


> Quite rich, coming from a citizen of an Islamic theocracy which ranks well ahead of us in the fragile states index.
> 
> Keep dreaming though.



Bangladesh is a theocracy? I didn't know that. But thanks for the heads up.


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## gslv mk3

Loki said:


> Bangladesh is a theocracy? I didn't know that. But thanks for the heads up.



Of course it is an Islamic state. Which ranks ahead of us in the fragile states index.

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## Zabaniyah

BDforever said:


> @Loki @TopCat @bd_4_ever my prediction is Mig35 for AF, because BAF already has Mig experience+ less operational cost than Mig 29 but more advanced+ less fly away cost than su series.
> But Navy will get Su series



The MiG-35 is what is akin the American F-18 Super Hornet. The Russians have been way too slow in developing the MiG-35. Albeit purposefully I'd wager. The Americans on the other hand deployed the SH way back in the late 1990's. Why such a huge gap? Are the Americans more efficient than their Russian counterparts? Not necessarily.

It's all about a military's requirements. The Russians had to rely on machines that are powerful, can move vast distances, and do so reliably under harsh conditions. This is in part their doctrine. Hence, their preference for the Flanker models. The MiG had never been to big among them.

I would say there were commitment issues with MiG. I have also heard that MiG has quality issues. Recently, much of their orders come from abroad - Namely India.

Now let's ask ourselves. Considering the state of matters right now, would it be rational to buy a new platform like the MiG-35? Would there be quality issues? Can Bangladesh as the first customer for that plane afford the risk?



Bilal9 said:


> Excellent posts Loki Bhai.
> 
> I'd say though that the following are what I thought were the Bangladesh Defense Doctrine for air force (for *both holding *and *strike forces*).
> 
> Exhaust all other avenues (diplomatic etc.) in parallel with activating defensive measures (holding forces).
> Utilization of passive defense measures like radar and satellite warning systems along with active defense (holding forces).
> Place active point air defense (missile defense and air superiority holding forces) to protect major infra assets
> As a last resort - use of limited offensive measures (strike forces) but only to protect our vital interests, to neutralize enemy - only to the extent strictly necessary and only after struck by enemy.
> I know that these are very high level principles however *holding and strike force choices for ground attack and air superiority fighters* need to be well thought out in a combat scenario. You are welcome to share your musings.



I don't know about doctrine. A military's doctrine is a highly secretive matter which is why I didn't talk much about it. I know for a fact that that Soviets didn't let anyone know their doctrine to any of its arms customers. And rightly so. Who'd want someone else to know it? But they are very different from let's say the British one.

Who knows? Maybe we can ask 'Prince Moosa' to bug the supply lines of the enemy and blow them up in the middle of a fight or something  Now that would be ugly.



asad71 said:


> I think you should cancel out BAF's experience with Mig-29. This has been nothing but nightmarish.



Nightmarish due to their negligence. They used cheap parts from Central Asian countries instead of original parts from Russia. It was so bad that there were rumors of cannibalization. I'm sure you'd know better if there hadn't been so much intellectual dishonesty coming from you.

Of-course, Khaleda Zia (who never even read intelligence reports) wanted to sell them to prove SHW wrong and that she was part of the corruption scandal involving those MiGs. And that was just about it. This form of idiocity needs to stop. There needs to be change.

But, was it a worthy experience? I would say yes.



gslv mk3 said:


> Of course it is an Islamic state. Which ranks ahead of us in the fragile states index.



An Islamic state that allows women to be heads of state? It is generally discouraged in Islam.

But the fact remains that despite being a fantastic administrator, your leader allowed thousands of your own people die for his beliefs. Now that makes him a wildcard.

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## gslv mk3

Loki said:


> So, would an 'Islamic state' allow a female to be a head of state according to you? In Islam, it is generally discouraged.



Your constitution declares Islam as the state religion. That's enough to be 'Islamic'

''The state religion of the Republic is Islam, but other religions may be practiced in peace and harmony in the Republic''

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## Zabaniyah

gslv mk3 said:


> Your constitution declares Islam as the state religion. That's enough to be 'Islamic'
> 
> ''The state religion of the Republic is Islam, but other religions may be practiced in peace and harmony in the Republic''



And that is your answer in regards to a woman as a head of state?  One that shows her face in the presence of men? It's either you are mad or you are being a funny man.

And you think I don't know that already in regards to state religion? Do you understand what a theocracy is? You have a habit of making a poor choice of words my callous Indian friend.

Islam as a state religion is as hollow as an empty underground well. It serves no function at all. It was done just to make some foolish mullahs happy during Ershad's already unpopular reign at the time. And something that has no function should be deleted. Don't you agree?

Now, this is a very particular thread we have here. If you don't like seeing something you read, best to just leave that place. The nature of your leadership is indeed relevant. A deeply-religious man with quite a few skeletons in his closet who believes that buying foreign-made weapons would make him and his country more powerful.

Who knows? Maybe it is you who is being intolerant(?)

I suggest that you leave this place immediately.

@waz @WAJsal

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## gslv mk3

Loki said:


> And that is your answer in regards to a woman as a head of state?  One that shows her face in the presence of men? It's either you are mad and you are being a funny man.



Ha, so the constitution of a country has absolutely no role in determining whether a nation is secular or not ?  Or is your constitution such an useless document ?

Calling your nation a theocracy is a stretch but not as much as referring to India as 'unstable'.



Loki said:


> A deeply-religious man with quite a few skeletons in his closet who believes that buying foreign-made weapons would make him and his country more powerfu



Absolute non sense. I have no idea whether Modi is deeply religious or not but the efforts of Indian military to modernize is definitely much older than Modi Sarkar. There was billions of dollars allocated for that in the 12th five year plan (2012-17) which was laid down during the rule of 'secular' congress and even that hasn't been fully realized until now.



Loki said:


> So, I suggest that you leave this place immediately.
> 
> @waz @WAJsal



Don't try too hard. It was you who made unnecessary comments about India & it's PM.

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## Zabaniyah

gslv mk3 said:


> Calling your nation a theocracy is a stretch but not as much as referring to India as 'unstable'.



I don't know. Your folks whine or even revolt even if they don't get 1 paisa as change  

Well, jokes aside...


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## gslv mk3

Loki said:


> I don't know. Your folks whine or even revolt even if they don't get 1 paisa as change



And you folks fight over Indian TV soaps. No kidding.

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## BDforever

Loki said:


> I would say there were commitment issues with MiG. I have also heard that MiG has quality issues. Recently, much of their orders come from abroad - Namely India.


Egypt ordered Mig 35


----------



## Zabaniyah

BDforever said:


> Egypt ordered Mig 35



A country that uses (or used to) American equipment and now switching to Russian? Bad move by Sisi.


----------



## Arthur

Loki said:


> A country that uses (or used to) American equipment and now switching to Russian? Bad move by Sisi.


Not strange I would say, if you consider the switchings they did in the past between the two. 

I read somewhere that it has more to do with BVR capabilities, that they don't get with the American options. So why it would be bad? Everyone has to start new from somewhere, don't they?


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## mb444

Loki said:


> A country that uses (or used to) American equipment and now switching to Russian? Bad move by Sisi.




It was not particularly long ago that Egyptian armed forces were primarily supplied by USSR.


----------



## ~Phoenix~

Sybaris Caeser said:


> Dafuq! My secret is OUT!!! How did you find out, boy?



Umm,you might be a Russian either,but I'm pretty sure you are a false flagger.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Loki said:


> A country that uses (or used to) American equipment and now switching to Russian? Bad move by Sisi.


Embargo. And high selling price for middle eastern nations because oil.



Loki said:


> The MiG-35 is what is akin the American F-18 Super Hornet. The Russians have been way too slow in developing the MiG-35. Albeit purposefully I'd wager. The Americans on the other hand deployed the SH way back in the late 1990's. Why such a huge gap? Are the Americans more efficient than their Russian counterparts? Not necessarily.
> 
> It's all about a military's requirements. The Russians had to rely on machines that are powerful, can move vast distances, and do so reliably under harsh conditions. This is in part their doctrine. Hence, their preference for the Flanker models. The MiG had never been to big among them.
> 
> I would say there were commitment issues with MiG. I have also heard that MiG has quality issues. Recently, much of their orders come from abroad - Namely India.
> 
> Now let's ask ourselves. Considering the state of matters right now, would it be rational to buy a new platform like the MiG-35? Would there be quality issues? Can Bangladesh as the first customer for that plane afford the risk?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about doctrine. A military's doctrine is a highly secretive matter which is why I didn't talk much about it. I know for a fact that that Soviets didn't let anyone know their doctrine to any of its arms customers. And rightly so. Who'd want someone else to know it? But they are very different from let's say the British one.
> 
> Who knows? Maybe we can ask 'Prince Moosa' to bug the supply lines of the enemy and blow them up in the middle of a fight or something  Now that would be ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> Nightmarish due to their negligence. They used cheap parts from Central Asian countries instead of original parts from Russia. It was so bad that there were rumors of cannibalization. I'm sure you'd know better if there hadn't been so much intellectual dishonesty coming from you.
> 
> Of-course, Khaleda Zia (who never even read intelligence reports) wanted to sell them to prove SHW wrong and that she was part of the corruption scandal involving those MiGs. And that was just about it. This form of idiocity needs to stop. There needs to be change.
> 
> But, was it a worthy experience? I would say yes.
> 
> 
> 
> An Islamic state that allows women to be heads of state? It is generally discouraged in Islam.
> 
> But the fact remains that despite being a fantastic administrator, your leader allowed thousands of your own people die for his beliefs. Now that makes him a wildcard.


Can you explain to me how experience with mig 29 has been nightmarish for BAF. I only hear this forum has to say something bad about it. Every time I see bd pilots praising and often asking for more fighters (not necessarily it)

Also why did riyaz leave Air Force? Or was he kicked out for some reason? He seemed to have trained in f-16


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## Gandh brandi

~Phoenix~ said:


> Umm,you might be a Russian either,but I'm pretty sure you are a false flagger.


And how do you figure that? Maybe I use translate.google.com to insult burmonkeys, maybe I can cyrillicise (is that even a thing?) Bangla just like you cam romanise it. Чокчок корлэи шона хоина вачха « চকচক করলেই সোনা হয়না বাছা »



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Embargo. And high selling price for middle eastern nations because oil.
> 
> 
> Can you explain to me how experience with mig 29 has been nightmarish for BAF. I only hear this forum has to say something bad about it. Every time I see bd pilots praising and often asking for more fighters (not necessarily it)
> 
> Also why did riyaz leave Air Force? Or was he kicked out for some reason? He seemed to have trained in f-16


who's riyaz? the actor?


----------



## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> And how do you figure that? Maybe I use translate.google.com to insult burmonkeys, maybe I can cyrillicise (is that even a thing?) Bangla just like you cam romanise it. Чокчок корлэи шона хоина вачха « চকচক করলেই সোনা হয়না বাছা »
> 
> 
> who's riyaz? the actor?


Yeah yeah



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Yeah yeah


Dammit. You didn't have to right in Russian you know. I literally read it for no reason.
очень плохо


----------



## Bilal9

Sybaris Caeser said:


> চকচক করলেই সোনা হয়না বাছা



That sounds vaguely Kolkatan - no ??

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## ~Phoenix~

Sybaris Caeser said:


> And how do you figure that?



Your avatar.Its the logo of Russian Federation.



Sybaris Caeser said:


> চকচক করলেই সোনা হয়না *বাছা*



কিন্তু প্লাস্টিক চকচক করে না,অবশ্যই glitter প্লাস্টিক এ যুক্ত করা হয়েছে...


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## Gandh brandi

~Phoenix~ said:


> Your avatar.Its the logo of Russian Federation.
> 
> 
> 
> কিন্তু প্লাস্টিক চকচক করে না,অবশ্যই glitter প্লাস্টিক এ যুক্ত করা হয়েছে...


No that's the masonic two headed eagle of Byzantine empire (or eastern roman empire) that passed onto Russia that is now part of Russian Presidential Flag and their coat if arms.

Putin's Flag






CoA





My Avatar





Anyway this is the fucking internet. As long as noone finds out my real life details I could care less what you or anyone thinks.



Bilal9 said:


> That sounds vaguely Kolkatan - no ??


And what's the Real™ বাংলা with a ং version?


----------



## BDforever

news: Air force currently has 5 FM90 SAM systems

Bangladesh Air force commando member is training in US

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## Gandh brandi

Damn! The guys in the skies are training for 16th December maybe. 1x 5 man Mig formation » 3/4x 3 man F7 (maybe) » 3x 3 man Yak » 2x 4 man rotary plane » 1x 2 man white Antonovs » 1x 3 man cargo/transport planes (One's quite large, other two smaller. Darker color) » 1x 3 man white looking AW heli » 1x 3 man smaller AW(don't know the models) » 1x 3 man Mi-something » 2 single flag carrying helis. Made my day

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## Kandari-Hushiyaar

Sybaris Caeser said:


> No that's the masonic two headed eagle of Byzantine empire (or eastern roman empire) that passed onto Russia that is now part of Russian Presidential Flag and their coat if arms.
> 
> My Avatar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway this is the fucking internet. As long as noone finds out my real life details I could care less what you or anyone thinks.
> 
> 
> And what's the Real™ বাংলা with a ং version?



What does this even mean? A swastika , a crescent and a wheel?? Are you a death cult?


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## Gandh brandi

Kandari-Hushiyaar said:


> What does this even mean? A swastika , a crescent and a wheel?? Are you a death cult?


The originals are all cross as you can see including the ball on the right. I changed the upper three to dharma wheel – symbol of buddhism, crescent – symbol of islam and swastika – symbol of hinduism. And red and green of our flag in the background. Not too shabby if I say so myself. Say it as my personal coat of arms if you will

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## Bilal9

Sybaris Caeser said:


> And what's the Real™ বাংলা with a ং version?



Bangladeshis rarely say *বাছা...
*
Maybe *বাবা, *but never *বাছা*. That is a Kolkata term.

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## Gandh brandi

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladeshis rarely say *বাছা...
> *
> Maybe *বাবা, *but never *বাছা*. That is a Kolkata term.


*facepalm* And I thought Kolkatans always use polite words like বাবা/বাবু since বাবুগিরি is a kolkatan thing or sth.


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## Russell

Shobar dekhi matha nosto hoye geche...bangla class cholche....

Choluk, ami jai ga...Burger King khulse deshe teen din agey...dekhi, ekta triple whopper kheye aashi...

Obesity FTW!

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## Bilal9

Russell said:


> Shobar dekhi matha nosto hoye geche...bangla class cholche....
> 
> Choluk, ami jai ga...Burger King khulse deshe teen din agey...dekhi, ekta triple whopper kheye aashi...
> 
> Obesity FTW!



Lainey darailey 30 minutes minimum wait AFAIK.

Good luck and take a few friends. You can at least have an adda while you wait....

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## ~Phoenix~

Sybaris Caeser said:


> Damn! The guys in the skies are training for 16th December maybe. 1x 5 man Mig formation » 3/4x 3 man F7 (maybe) » 3x 3 man Yak » 2x 4 man rotary plane » 1x 2 man white Antonovs » 1x 3 man cargo/transport planes (One's quite large, other two smaller. Darker color) » 1x 3 man white looking AW heli » 1x 3 man smaller AW(don't know the models) » 1x 3 man Mi-something » 2 single flag carrying helis. Made my day



Don't you have a camera in your home? You can't just watch it alone and jerk off -.- We want the show too!
White antonov? Our ones are green.
Bigger AW and smaller AW? Air force operates AW-139s only.



Sybaris Caeser said:


> Anyway this is the fucking internet. As long as noone finds out my real life details I could care less what you or anyone thinks



Hmm,I'll find you someday and kill you :'D 



Russell said:


> Shobar dekhi matha nosto hoye geche...bangla class cholche....
> 
> Choluk, ami jai ga...Burger King khulse deshe teen din agey...dekhi, ekta triple whopper kheye aashi...
> 
> Obesity FTW!



Amar jonno ekta aino


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## Russell

@~Phoenix~ No!

Kono maane hoe na...our local copy cat - Burger n Boost (Owner is a guy who spent some time in Australia) - makes the exact same burgers (he ripped them off big time, name, logo and all lol)...for BDT 100-120 cheaper.


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## BDforever

~Phoenix~ said:


> Don't you have a camera in your home?
> White antonov? Our ones are green.
> Bigger AW and smaller AW? Air force operates AW-139s only.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm,I'll find you someday and kill you
> 
> 
> 
> Amar jonno ekta aino


1. he probably mixed it up with white Navy's Do-228NG MPA
2. AW109 of Navy and AW139 of Air force


Russell said:


> @~Phoenix~ No!
> 
> Kono maane hoe na...our local copy cat - Burger n Boost (Owner is a guy who spent some time in Australia) - makes the exact same burgers (he ripped them off big time, name, logo and all lol)...for BDT 100-120 cheaper.


location plz

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## Russell

@BDforever https://www.facebook.com/burgernboost/

Locations in Dhanmondi - 5/A - opposite the lake/rangs plaza
also Jamuna Future Park 

The burgers really are awesome - the smell and taste are an exact match for what I used to have at Hungry Jacks (Burger King in Australia) in Australia

Apologies to everyone else for the OFF TOPIC

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## Arthur

Well guys, Enough with flags, Burgers & Bangla masteri in sticky thread.

But I do believe our @Bilal9 has a great thread on restaurants & cuisine in Dhaka. 

https://defence.pk/threads/restaurants-in-dhaka.338723/

So you are very welcome to bring your discussion on tasty burgers there.

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## ~Phoenix~

Russell said:


> @~Phoenix~ No!
> 
> Kono maane hoe na...our local copy cat - Burger n Boost (Owner is a guy who spent some time in Australia) - makes the exact same burgers (he ripped them off big time, name, logo and all lol)...for BDT 100-120 cheaper.



Naaaaaaaaaaaa,Burger King and Burger King only lol



Khan saheb said:


> Well guys, Enough with flags, Burgers & Bangla masteri in sticky thread.
> 
> But I do believe our @Bilal9 has a great thread on restaurants & cuisine in Dhaka.
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/restaurants-in-dhaka.338723/
> 
> So you are very welcome to bring your discussion on tasty burgers there.



Ok ok ok,I have a bad habit of derailing threads,sorry.
I'll post some on-topic stuff now.












BAF's F-7 dropping bombs.









FM-90 SHORAD SAM System.




MiG-29 Pilots of 8th squadron with their toys behind them.





L-39ZAs and K-8W in formation.





Mil Mi-171Sh battlefield support helicopter armed with S-4,S-8 and S-25 rockets.





L-39ZAs of 25th squadron "Trendsetters"





Something you don't see everyday.

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## bigbossman

New Recruitment Advertisement of Bangladesh Air Force

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## ~Phoenix~

bigbossman said:


> New Recruitment Advertisement of Bangladesh Air Force



Sheit,that was wayy too awesome

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## bdslph

bigbossman said:


> New Recruitment Advertisement of Bangladesh Air Force




Damn awesome

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## BDforever

bigbossman said:


> New Recruitment Advertisement of Bangladesh Air Force


you posted before me

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## Michael Corleone

bigbossman said:


> New Recruitment Advertisement of Bangladesh Air Force


Tears of happiness :,) 
Watched it multiple times. 
Happy victory day guys.

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## Arthur

The Kilo Flight





©BAH

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## Zabaniyah

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Embargo. And high selling price for middle eastern nations because oil.



I guess so. Geez, it's like throwing away all those fancy American equipment. 



> Can you explain to me how experience with mig 29 has been nightmarish for BAF. I only hear this forum has to say something bad about it. Every time I see bd pilots praising and often asking for more fighters (not necessarily it)



I read about the MiG's problems in another forum (a Bangladeshi one). Unfortunately, it is no longer operational. I even forgot the name of the place since it was so long ago. 

I didn't say the Fulcrum is bad. But, we had issues with it. I mean, a poor country like Bangladesh operating a 4th gen. fighter back in the 90's was a bit overkill. But it was a good experience nonetheless. I have explained the reasons before. 

We can reference to an old article though, it may give us some insights:
*MiG-29s to be jettisoned*

*Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*

_M Anwarul Haq_

Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government.




"The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. "Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion dollars a year for spare parts and maintenance."

The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.

Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.

The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.

The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.

Hasina, the leader of the opposition in parliament, has dismissed the charges and said that the fighter planes were purchased at competitive prices for 'defence of the country'.

The Bureau of Anti-corruption (BAC) has lodged a case with the Tejgaon police station, implicating Hasina and some high officials of her government for alleged irregularities in procurement of the MIG-29s.

In a volume of the recently published White Paper, the government of Hasina is also accused of willful wrongdoing in purchase of the military equipment from Russia. The prime minister told the newsmen that most of the MiGs had been grounded and become a burden to the exchequer.

If sold out now, the aircraft will fetch a good price, the prime minister is learnt to said. Otherwise, she added, the country will require at least 100 crore taka every year for their maintenance.

"It is therefore better to sell them and spare the exchequer from such a heavy, recurring burden," she concluded.

Besides the half squadron MiGs, the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) is learnt to have a fully trained outfit to fly five squadrons, each having a standard of 16 jets. It has three squadrons of fighter jets. The fleet comprises Chinese A-5 ground attack aircraft, F-7 MB attack and defence role fighters and Czech manufactured L-39 jets. It has also some obsolete MIG-21 aircraft procured years back. It also possess two dozen helicopters, US made Bell and Russian MI-17.

The Chinese government is learnt to have offered to sell at least one dozen F-7 MB fighters which have proved to be less expensive and suitable for Bangladesh during the last government's tenure on deferred payment basis, but the deal was not accepted.

*It was learnt that in an evaluation memo by one of the country's top security agencies it was told that the purchase of eight MiG-29 aircraft will not increase the combat capacity of the BAF, rather it might reduce it. "Maintenance requirement of the MiG-29s will exhaust the budget provision.

Other fighter aircraft may lose their effectiveness for lack of maintenance," it said. Ahead of the MiG purchase in February 1999, a military technical co-operation agreement was signed with the Russian Federation in Dhaka. Some analysts said it was not clear why such a comprehensive agreement was required to purchase eight MiG-29s.*

While the US was unable to offer Bangladesh a comparable fighter jet at a competitive price, it attempted to prevent the government from buying Russian aifcraft, according to defence sources..
http://www.sdnbd.org/sdi/news/general-news/July/17-07-2002/Business.htm#MiG

Also seemed like a political ploy against Sheikh Hasina at the time. 



> Also why did riyaz leave Air Force? Or was he kicked out for some reason? He seemed to have trained in f-16



I don't know about any riyaz. Who's he? 



Khan saheb said:


> Not strange I would say, if you consider the switchings they did in the past between the two.
> 
> I read somewhere that it has more to do with BVR capabilities, that they don't get with the American options. So why it would be bad? Everyone has to start new from somewhere, don't they?



I guess they had to start from somewhere. 

The BVR part is actually true. It was due to pressure from AIPAC (the Israeli lobby in America). But still, it is a headache managing two completely different platforms from a logistical point of view. Especially in a war-time scenario. Logistics should always be easy and smooth so that we can win. 

Interesting. The Israelis apparently have an excellent counter-BVR doctrine. But there are vulnerabilities as that scenario had suggested.



mb444 said:


> It was not particularly long ago that Egyptian armed forces were primarily supplied by USSR.



Yes. Way back in the Arab-Israeli wars. But they are outdated by now. Switching to a completely different system can be costly. In Egypt's case, it may be understandable. 

The MiG-35 is good. My only criticism is that they have been way too slow in rolling it out. And very importantly, we need to ensure that the supplier is reliable and not swayed by politics. That is my prime concern.

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## Michael Corleone

Loki said:


> I guess so. Geez, it's like throwing away all those fancy American equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> I read about the MiG's problems in another forum (a Bangladeshi one). Unfortunately, it is no longer operational. I even forgot the name of the place since it was so long ago.
> 
> I didn't say the Fulcrum is bad. But, we had issues with it. I mean, a poor country like Bangladesh operating a 4th gen. fighter back in the 90's was a bit overkill. But it was a good experience nonetheless. I have explained the reasons before.
> 
> We can reference to an old article though, it may give us some insights:
> *MiG-29s to be jettisoned*
> 
> *Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*
> 
> _M Anwarul Haq_
> 
> Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government.
> 
> 
> 
> "The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. "Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion dollars a year for spare parts and maintenance."
> 
> The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.
> 
> Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.
> 
> The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.
> 
> The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.
> 
> Hasina, the leader of the opposition in parliament, has dismissed the charges and said that the fighter planes were purchased at competitive prices for 'defence of the country'.
> 
> The Bureau of Anti-corruption (BAC) has lodged a case with the Tejgaon police station, implicating Hasina and some high officials of her government for alleged irregularities in procurement of the MIG-29s.
> 
> In a volume of the recently published White Paper, the government of Hasina is also accused of willful wrongdoing in purchase of the military equipment from Russia. The prime minister told the newsmen that most of the MiGs had been grounded and become a burden to the exchequer.
> 
> If sold out now, the aircraft will fetch a good price, the prime minister is learnt to said. Otherwise, she added, the country will require at least 100 crore taka every year for their maintenance.
> 
> "It is therefore better to sell them and spare the exchequer from such a heavy, recurring burden," she concluded.
> 
> Besides the half squadron MiGs, the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) is learnt to have a fully trained outfit to fly five squadrons, each having a standard of 16 jets. It has three squadrons of fighter jets. The fleet comprises Chinese A-5 ground attack aircraft, F-7 MB attack and defence role fighters and Czech manufactured L-39 jets. It has also some obsolete MIG-21 aircraft procured years back. It also possess two dozen helicopters, US made Bell and Russian MI-17.
> 
> The Chinese government is learnt to have offered to sell at least one dozen F-7 MB fighters which have proved to be less expensive and suitable for Bangladesh during the last government's tenure on deferred payment basis, but the deal was not accepted.
> 
> *It was learnt that in an evaluation memo by one of the country's top security agencies it was told that the purchase of eight MiG-29 aircraft will not increase the combat capacity of the BAF, rather it might reduce it. "Maintenance requirement of the MiG-29s will exhaust the budget provision.
> 
> Other fighter aircraft may lose their effectiveness for lack of maintenance," it said. Ahead of the MiG purchase in February 1999, a military technical co-operation agreement was signed with the Russian Federation in Dhaka. Some analysts said it was not clear why such a comprehensive agreement was required to purchase eight MiG-29s.*
> 
> While the US was unable to offer Bangladesh a comparable fighter jet at a competitive price, it attempted to prevent the government from buying Russian aifcraft, according to defence sources..
> http://www.sdnbd.org/sdi/news/general-news/July/17-07-2002/Business.htm#MiG
> 
> Also seemed like a political ploy against Sheikh Hasina at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about any riyaz. Who's he?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they had to start from somewhere.
> 
> The BVR part is actually true. It was due to pressure from AIPAC (the Israeli lobby in America). But still, it is a headache managing two completely different platforms from a logistical point of view. Especially in a war-time scenario. Logistics should always be easy and smooth so that we can win.
> 
> Interesting. The Israelis apparently have an excellent counter-BVR doctrine. But there are vulnerabilities as that scenario had suggested.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Way back in the Arab-Israeli wars. But they are outdated by now. Switching to a completely different system can be costly. In Egypt's case, it may be understandable.
> 
> The MiG-35 is good. My only criticism is that they have been way too slow in rolling it out. And very importantly, we need to ensure that the supplier is reliable and not swayed by politics. That is my prime concern.


Oh I remember back when Bangladesh ordered 16 and then cancelled orders of 8 of them after Khaleda came to power... Russia increased the spare parts and maintenance cost. It was affordable else we wouldn't be requesting US for f-16 prior to mig purchase.
Khaleda just had to steal money nothing more nothing less. Wouldn't say hasina haven't done the same.
My guess is riyaj either quit Air Force when we decided to get mig 29 after f-16 request was rejected by USA or that he might have had done some kind of argument with his seniors about something and got dismissed? Who knows. There are many pictures of him training in f-16 in turkey.

Riyaj currently is a Bangladeshi actor making some meh to weird films for decades now.


----------



## ~Phoenix~

Loki said:


> *MiG-29s to be jettisoned*
> 
> *Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*
> 
> _M Anwarul Haq_
> 
> Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government.
> 
> 
> 
> "The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. "Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion *dollars* a year for spare parts and maintenance."
> 
> The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.
> 
> Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.
> 
> The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.



1 billion dollars a year for maintainance and spareparts of MiG-29s? Was the writer high or I'm going to shit bricks?

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## TopCat

Loki said:


> I guess so. Geez, it's like throwing away all those fancy American equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> I read about the MiG's problems in another forum (a Bangladeshi one). Unfortunately, it is no longer operational. I even forgot the name of the place since it was so long ago.
> 
> I didn't say the Fulcrum is bad. But, we had issues with it. I mean, a poor country like Bangladesh operating a 4th gen. fighter back in the 90's was a bit overkill. But it was a good experience nonetheless. I have explained the reasons before.
> 
> We can reference to an old article though, it may give us some insights:
> *MiG-29s to be jettisoned*
> 
> *Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*
> 
> _M Anwarul Haq_
> 
> Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government.
> 
> 
> 
> "The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. "Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion dollars a year for spare parts and maintenance."
> 
> The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.
> 
> Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.
> 
> The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.
> 
> The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.
> 
> Hasina, the leader of the opposition in parliament, has dismissed the charges and said that the fighter planes were purchased at competitive prices for 'defence of the country'.
> 
> The Bureau of Anti-corruption (BAC) has lodged a case with the Tejgaon police station, implicating Hasina and some high officials of her government for alleged irregularities in procurement of the MIG-29s.
> 
> In a volume of the recently published White Paper, the government of Hasina is also accused of willful wrongdoing in purchase of the military equipment from Russia. The prime minister told the newsmen that most of the MiGs had been grounded and become a burden to the exchequer.
> 
> If sold out now, the aircraft will fetch a good price, the prime minister is learnt to said. Otherwise, she added, the country will require at least 100 crore taka every year for their maintenance.
> 
> "It is therefore better to sell them and spare the exchequer from such a heavy, recurring burden," she concluded.
> 
> Besides the half squadron MiGs, the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) is learnt to have a fully trained outfit to fly five squadrons, each having a standard of 16 jets. It has three squadrons of fighter jets. The fleet comprises Chinese A-5 ground attack aircraft, F-7 MB attack and defence role fighters and Czech manufactured L-39 jets. It has also some obsolete MIG-21 aircraft procured years back. It also possess two dozen helicopters, US made Bell and Russian MI-17.
> 
> The Chinese government is learnt to have offered to sell at least one dozen F-7 MB fighters which have proved to be less expensive and suitable for Bangladesh during the last government's tenure on deferred payment basis, but the deal was not accepted.
> 
> *It was learnt that in an evaluation memo by one of the country's top security agencies it was told that the purchase of eight MiG-29 aircraft will not increase the combat capacity of the BAF, rather it might reduce it. "Maintenance requirement of the MiG-29s will exhaust the budget provision.
> 
> Other fighter aircraft may lose their effectiveness for lack of maintenance," it said. Ahead of the MiG purchase in February 1999, a military technical co-operation agreement was signed with the Russian Federation in Dhaka. Some analysts said it was not clear why such a comprehensive agreement was required to purchase eight MiG-29s.*
> 
> While the US was unable to offer Bangladesh a comparable fighter jet at a competitive price, it attempted to prevent the government from buying Russian aifcraft, according to defence sources..
> http://www.sdnbd.org/sdi/news/general-news/July/17-07-2002/Business.htm#MiG
> 
> Also seemed like a political ploy against Sheikh Hasina at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about any riyaz. Who's he?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they had to start from somewhere.
> 
> The BVR part is actually true. It was due to pressure from AIPAC (the Israeli lobby in America). But still, it is a headache managing two completely different platforms from a logistical point of view. Especially in a war-time scenario. Logistics should always be easy and smooth so that we can win.
> 
> Interesting. The Israelis apparently have an excellent counter-BVR doctrine. But there are vulnerabilities as that scenario had suggested.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Way back in the Arab-Israeli wars. But they are outdated by now. Switching to a completely different system can be costly. In Egypt's case, it may be understandable.
> 
> The MiG-35 is good. My only criticism is that they have been way too slow in rolling it out. And very importantly, we need to ensure that the supplier is reliable and not swayed by politics. That is my prime concern.


BNP had very old animosity against Russia because of Mig-21 fiasco. Former USSR declined to supply spare for our Mig-21 after Zia took over power from a coup. So BNP always suspicious about Russia.


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## bluesky

Loki said:


> 1) The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. *Each aircraft was priced $11 million* and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.
> 
> 2) The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.



*"MiG-29K"
"12 MiG-29K and 4 MiG-29KUB contract signed in 20th January 2004 is worth Rs 3,405.61 crores as per CAG. For an exchange rate of 45.43 at that time, the amount translates to $749.7 million. Hence the average cost of a single MiG-29K is $46.9 million."

"The contracts for the jets also stipulate pilot training and aircraft maintenance, including the delivery of flight simulators and interactive ground and sea-based training systems. So the unit cost of the MiG-29K variant is still unknown".*

Above is an excerpt from an article that speaks of Indian purchase of fulcrums along with the *price in 2004*. It was $46.9 million per unit. Prices were lower in terms of dollar in 1997---, but not what Begum Zia implied. During her 1st term, Hasina bought the 8 planes by only $11 million each. It was completely a friendship price because I have read some other materials that say the price was *$15 million each at that time for a purchase of a large 50 units. *

However, our stupid Khaleda initiated a policy of vengeance against Hasina claiming irregularities in the purchase of the Migs. This hypocrite tried to sell them to a 3rd country, and then filed a criminal case against Hasina, which she could not prove in the Court, anyway. Not only this, that Khaleda also made the frigate Bangabandhu a naval museum citing a high maintenance cost.

BNP government under Khaleda was against the military purchases that made military unhappy. On the contrary, Hasina understands what the military wants out of the govt., and she has been always showing positive mindedness in her tenures as the PM. Khaleda should understand why she cannot expect a military takeover whatever is the notorious & hooligan Awami domestic policy is.

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## rome333

During Khaleda tenure, there was a general notion on the air that US gonna open up a base in the coastal part of BD.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> BNP had very old animosity against Russia because of Mig-21 fiasco. Former USSR declined to supply spare for our Mig-21 after Zia took over power from a coup. So BNP always suspicious about Russia.


Lmao. Little did they know the soviets were gone.



bluesky said:


> *"MiG-29K"
> "12 MiG-29K and 4 MiG-29KUB contract signed in 20th January 2004 is worth Rs 3,405.61 crores as per CAG. For an exchange rate of 45.43 at that time, the amount translates to $749.7 million. Hence the average cost of a single MiG-29K is $46.9 million."
> 
> "The contracts for the jets also stipulate pilot training and aircraft maintenance, including the delivery of flight simulators and interactive ground and sea-based training systems. So the unit cost of the MiG-29K variant is still unknown".*
> 
> Above is an excerpt from an article that speaks of Indian purchase of fulcrums along with the *price in 2004*. It was $46.9 million per unit. Prices were lower in terms of dollar in 1997---, but not what Begum Zia implied. During her 1st term, Hasina bought the 8 planes by only $11 million each. It was completely a friendship price because I have read some other materials that say the price was *$15 million each at that time for a purchase of a large 50 units. *
> 
> However, our stupid Khaleda initiated a policy of vengeance against Hasina claiming irregularities in the purchase of the Migs. This hypocrite tried to sell them to a 3rd country, and then filed a criminal case against Hasina, which she could not prove in the Court, anyway. Not only this, that Khaleda also made the frigate Bangabandhu a naval museum citing a high maintenance cost.
> 
> BNP government under Khaleda was against the military purchases that made military unhappy. On the contrary, Hasina understands what the military wants out of the govt., and she has been always showing positive mindedness in her tenures as the PM. Khaleda should understand why she cannot expect a military takeover whatever is the notorious & hooligan Awami domestic policy is.


Some good service years wasted from bns bangabandhu thanks to stupid Khaleda. What was she thinking if we had an external aggression... fight with hay sticks?


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## bd_4_ever

Ah come on boys, stop cussing Lord Khaleda. The pro-nationalist brigade on PDF will be --->


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## mb444

I consider myself a nationalist and anti-BAL.... But I would strongly state that does not somehow makes me pro-BNP.

Nationalist first.....support of political party is situational on past record and policy position.

Party affiliation has nothing to do with being a nationalist.

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## Arthur

Well, I have put in my observation about this whole fiasco before.

1. The planes were bought rather cheap, that's for sure.

2.But the operational & maintainance cost was away above the level of BAF budget.

3. Our economy was weak. No where near the boom we are seeing now. We were almost verge of defaulting on our import bills. The reserve was very low, just a mere $ 1 billion. Gov. had to stop paying import bills, cuz if foreign reserve goes below $ 1 billion your credit rating will be negative & no one will give you easy, soft loans for infrastructure or any other purposes.

4. In that regard it wasn't a practical decision to keep the planes on air & keep carrying maintainance bills.

5. And to my true knowledge BAF high command wasn't very pleased with the situation either. They didn't liked how only eight aircraft was eating up the budget of the whole fleet. So they grounded the fighters till proper funds can be managed & allocated.

Khaleda couldn't have done anything in that regard.

The plan of selling was just a stupid idea from the useless cronies of Khaleda, who wanted some piece from the cake but of course military top bruss taught them their place.

6. And Seikh Hasina was indeed found liable, proved in the court that she indeed had made a wrong decision & caused the state economic & monetary losses through this deal. And that was during the Military supported Care Taker government.

So you people can really easy down from you political bashing band wagon. It seems kids nowadays take it as fashion trend, bashing people for useless reasons, without knowing or understanding the facts & context of things.

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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> Well, I have put in my observation about this whole fiasco before.
> 
> 1. The planes were bought rather cheap, that's for sure.
> 
> 2.But the operational & maintainance cost was away above the level of BAF budget.
> 
> 3. Our economy was weak. No where near the boom we are seeing now. We were almost verge of defaulting on our import bills. The reserve was very low, just a mere $ 1 billio. Gov. had to stop paying import bills, cuz if foreign reserve goes below $ 1 billion your credit rating will be negative & no one will give you easy, soft loans for infrastructure or any other purposes.
> 
> 4. In that regard it wasn't a practical decision to keep the planes on air & keep carrying maintainance bills.
> 
> 5. And to my true knowledge BAF high command wasn't very pleased with the situation either. They didn't liked how only eight aircraft was eating up the budget of the whole fleet. So they grounded the fighters till proper funds can be managed & allocated.
> 
> Khaleda couldn't have done anything in that regard.
> 
> The plan of selling was just a stupid idea from the useless cronies of Khaleda, who wanted some piece from the cake but of course military top bruss taught them their place.
> 
> 6. And Seikh Hasina was indeed found liable, proved in the court that she indeed had made a wrong decision & caused the state economic & monetary losses through this deal. And that was during the Military supported Care Taker government.
> 
> So you people can really easy down from you political bashing band wagon. It seems kids take it as fashion trend, bashing people for useless reasons, without knowing or understanding the facts & context of things.
> 
> 
> 
> This one fb post came on my news feed. Explains the situation & wwhat rreally should be.
> 
> যুদ্ধাপরাধের বিচার চাওয়া মানে আওয়ামী লীগ সমর্থন করা না। জোটের সমালোচনাকরা মানে মহাজোট সমর্থন করা না। মহাজোটের সমালোচনা করা মানে জোটকে সমর্থন করা না। জোট- মহাজোট মানে বাংলাদেশ না, বাংলাদেশের জনগণ না।
> 
> বাংলাদেশ মানে বাংলাদেশ জনগণ, আমাদের মুক্তির সংগ্রাম।
> 
> জনগণের মুক্তির সংগ্রাম কারো ব্যক্তিগত বা দলীয় সম্পত্তি না। আমরা এই কথাটা তখনি বলতে পারব, যখন আমরা জনগণ নিজেদের জন্যে জনগণ হয়ে উঠতে পারব। জোট-মহাজোটের চক্কর থেকে বের হতে পারব। হয় তুমি আমার বন্ধু, নয় তুমি আমার শত্রু- এই বুশ ডক্ট্রিন থেকে বের হতে পারব। জনগণের নিজস্ব গণতান্ত্রিক রাজনৈতিক শক্তি গড়ে তুলতে পারব। তা না হলে মিছে মোট খাটা সার। এই যেমন বাংলাদেশ নিয়ে খেলছে জনগণের দুশমনরা, লুটেরারা, মোনাফেকরা , গণশত্রুরা। আমাদের হুঁশ হচ্ছে না। তাদের মোট খেটে দিচ্ছি আমরা।
> 
> কত সাধনায় অর্জিত বাংলাদেশ কত সহজে আমরা হাতছাড়া করি প্রতিদিন! কত সহজে হাতছাড়া করি আমাদের জীবন, আমাদের ইতিহাস, বর্তমান , ভবিষ্যৎ , প্রিয় বাংলাদেশ!
> 
> কবে? কবে আমরা দখল নেব আমাদের জীবনের? কবে আমরা বুঝে নেব আমাদের 'দেশ'?
> 
> [ অরূপ রাহী/ ১৮.১২.২০১৩। ঈষৎ সম্পাদিত।


This is the reason military purchases decision should be left at the hands of military. The govt should only either approve or decline the request.

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## Arthur

mb444 said:


> I consider myself a nationalist and anti-BAL.... But I would strongly state that does not somehow makes me pro-BNP.
> 
> Nationalist first.....support of political party is situational on past record and policy position.
> 
> Party affiliation has nothing to do with being a nationalist.



This one fb post came on my news feed. Explains the situation & what really should matter.

যুদ্ধাপরাধের বিচার চাওয়া মানে আওয়ামী লীগ সমর্থন করা না। জোটের সমালোচনাকরা মানে মহাজোট সমর্থন করা না। মহাজোটের সমালোচনা করা মানে জোটকে সমর্থন করা না। জোট- মহাজোট মানে বাংলাদেশ না, বাংলাদেশের জনগণ না।

বাংলাদেশ মানে বাংলাদেশ জনগণ, আমাদের মুক্তির সংগ্রাম।

জনগণের মুক্তির সংগ্রাম কারো ব্যক্তিগত বা দলীয় সম্পত্তি না। আমরা এই কথাটা তখনি বলতে পারব, যখন আমরা জনগণ নিজেদের জন্যে জনগণ হয়ে উঠতে পারব। জোট-মহাজোটের চক্কর থেকে বের হতে পারব। হয় তুমি আমার বন্ধু, নয় তুমি আমার শত্রু- এই বুশ ডক্ট্রিন থেকে বের হতে পারব। জনগণের নিজস্ব গণতান্ত্রিক রাজনৈতিক শক্তি গড়ে তুলতে পারব। তা না হলে মিছে মোট খাটা সার। এই যেমন বাংলাদেশ নিয়ে খেলছে জনগণের দুশমনরা, লুটেরারা, মোনাফেকরা , গণশত্রুরা। আমাদের হুঁশ হচ্ছে না। তাদের মোট খেটে দিচ্ছি আমরা।

কত সাধনায় অর্জিত বাংলাদেশ কত সহজে আমরা হাতছাড়া করি প্রতিদিন! কত সহজে হাতছাড়া করি আমাদের জীবন, আমাদের ইতিহাস, বর্তমান , ভবিষ্যৎ , প্রিয় বাংলাদেশ!

কবে? কবে আমরা দখল নেব আমাদের জীবনের? কবে আমরা বুঝে নেব আমাদের 'দেশ'?

[ অরূপ রাহী/ ১৮.১২.২০১৩। ঈষৎ সম্পাদিত।

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## bd_4_ever

mb444 said:


> I consider myself a nationalist and anti-BAL.... But I would strongly state that does not somehow makes me pro-BNP.
> 
> Nationalist first.....support of political party is situational on past record and policy position.
> 
> Party affiliation has nothing to do with being a nationalist.



Yes of course. My bad in mis-using the word nationalist. I actually meant pro-BNP. I just indicated nationalist/national for N in BNP.


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## Bilal9

Khan saheb said:


> This one fb post came on my news feed. Explains the situation & what really should matter.
> 
> যুদ্ধাপরাধের বিচার চাওয়া মানে আওয়ামী লীগ সমর্থন করা না। জোটের সমালোচনাকরা মানে মহাজোট সমর্থন করা না। মহাজোটের সমালোচনা করা মানে জোটকে সমর্থন করা না। জোট- মহাজোট মানে বাংলাদেশ না, বাংলাদেশের জনগণ না।
> 
> বাংলাদেশ মানে বাংলাদেশ জনগণ, আমাদের মুক্তির সংগ্রাম।
> 
> জনগণের মুক্তির সংগ্রাম কারো ব্যক্তিগত বা দলীয় সম্পত্তি না। আমরা এই কথাটা তখনি বলতে পারব, যখন আমরা জনগণ নিজেদের জন্যে জনগণ হয়ে উঠতে পারব। জোট-মহাজোটের চক্কর থেকে বের হতে পারব। হয় তুমি আমার বন্ধু, নয় তুমি আমার শত্রু- এই বুশ ডক্ট্রিন থেকে বের হতে পারব। জনগণের নিজস্ব গণতান্ত্রিক রাজনৈতিক শক্তি গড়ে তুলতে পারব। তা না হলে মিছে মোট খাটা সার। এই যেমন বাংলাদেশ নিয়ে খেলছে জনগণের দুশমনরা, লুটেরারা, মোনাফেকরা , গণশত্রুরা। আমাদের হুঁশ হচ্ছে না। তাদের মোট খেটে দিচ্ছি আমরা।
> 
> কত সাধনায় অর্জিত বাংলাদেশ কত সহজে আমরা হাতছাড়া করি প্রতিদিন! কত সহজে হাতছাড়া করি আমাদের জীবন, আমাদের ইতিহাস, বর্তমান , ভবিষ্যৎ , প্রিয় বাংলাদেশ!
> 
> কবে? কবে আমরা দখল নেব আমাদের জীবনের? কবে আমরা বুঝে নেব আমাদের 'দেশ'?
> 
> [ অরূপ রাহী/ ১৮.১২.২০১৩। ঈষৎ সম্পাদিত।



Bravo!

You have to give props to this Arup Rahi guy.

He spoke my mind...

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## Avicenna

Just a question, what was the purpose of purchasing the Yak-130?


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Just a question, what was the purpose of purchasing the Yak-130?



The Yak-130 replaced the Czech-made Aero L-39 trainers (as well as the ex-US stock *Cessna T-37 *'Tweets') in the advanced jet trainer role. Not to mention a few other jet trainer types like the Fouga Magister.

Others can provide a better answer.


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## Avicenna

I hope BAF focuses on a small technologically advanced force with superior training. Especially now that the economy of Bangladesh seems to be improving. I hope there is a strong emphasis on training before buying fancy toys such as tactical fighters. Yak-130 fits the bill. I just wonder what the BAF is thinking. What do we use as primary trainers? Chinese PT-6? Also i wonder if we will buy more K-8. These need to be done before establishing additional fighter squadrons.

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## BD_India_friend

* Bangladesh is planning to procure eight new multi-role fighters *
Bangladesh’s Minister of Law Anisul Huq informed the Bangladesh Parliament that the government will be procuring eight multi-role combat aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force.

As per local news outlets, such as the Daily News, Mr. Huq noted that the fighter acquisition – alongside the procurement of six Mi-171Sh helicopters, two maritime search and rescue helicopters, one medium-range surface-to-air missile system, and one unmanned aerial vehicle system – will be made in the current fiscal year of 2016-2017.

Mr. Huq also stated that procurements contracts for two training helicopters, a short-range air defence system, a long-range air surveillance radar, and 11 PT-6 basic trainers were signed in 2015-2016.

Long-term, the Government of Bangladesh will procure additional multi-role fighters, a new medium-lift helicopter, and a mobile radar system.






*Notes & Comments:*

It appears that the Government of Bangladesh has earmarked 2016-2017 for finalizing much-awaited modernization programs for the armed forces, especially the Bangladesh Air Force, which will see the procurement of multi-role fighter aircraft and enhancements to its integrated air defence system.

At the end of November, the Bangladesh Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP) released an official tender for two anti-submarine warfare helicopters for the Bangladesh Navy.

In June, the Government of Bangladesh announced that it had increased the defence budget for 2016-2017 to $2.8 billion U.S. – i.e. a 7% increase from 2015-2016 (IHS Jane's). At the time, the Dhaka tribune added that the government would seek financing options from China and Russia to move forward with big-ticket arms acquisitions.

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## mb444

I am not that exited about the purchase of more migs to complete the squadron . It's long overdue and off course necessary.

What is particularly great is the purchase of mid range sams and various raders. This is introducing new technology after the introduction of short range sams. 

In my mind we require a forth arm of the military specifically armed and deployed with defensive and offensive missiles.

BD skies and territories needs to be free for our military to effectively operate. Missile capacity will ensure area denial to our enemies within and beyond our borders cheaply and effectively.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> What do we use as primary trainers? Chinese PT-6? Also i wonder if we will buy more K-8. These need to be done before establishing additional fighter squadrons.



More PT-6 will be coming in 2017. K-8 trainers were supplied this year - nine of them I believe.

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## Michael Corleone

BD_patriot said:


> * Bangladesh is planning to procure eight new multi-role fighters *
> Bangladesh’s Minister of Law Anisul Huq informed the Bangladesh Parliament that the government will be procuring eight multi-role combat aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force.
> 
> As per local news outlets, such as the Daily News, Mr. Huq noted that the fighter acquisition – alongside the procurement of six Mi-171Sh helicopters, two maritime search and rescue helicopters, one medium-range surface-to-air missile system, and one unmanned aerial vehicle system – will be made in the current fiscal year of 2016-2017.
> 
> Mr. Huq also stated that procurements contracts for two training helicopters, a short-range air defence system, a long-range air surveillance radar, and 11 PT-6 basic trainers were signed in 2015-2016.
> 
> Long-term, the Government of Bangladesh will procure additional multi-role fighters, a new medium-lift helicopter, and a mobile radar system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Notes & Comments:*
> 
> It appears that the Government of Bangladesh has earmarked 2016-2017 for finalizing much-awaited modernization programs for the armed forces, especially the Bangladesh Air Force, which will see the procurement of multi-role fighter aircraft and enhancements to its integrated air defence system.
> 
> At the end of November, the Bangladesh Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP) released an official tender for two anti-submarine warfare helicopters for the Bangladesh Navy.
> 
> In June, the Government of Bangladesh announced that it had increased the defence budget for 2016-2017 to $2.8 billion U.S. – i.e. a 7% increase from 2015-2016 (IHS Jane's). At the time, the Dhaka tribune added that the government would seek financing options from China and Russia to move forward with big-ticket arms acquisitions.


Wasn't last years budget 3 bill with extra 2 bill for the paramilitary forces?

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## bluesky




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## TopCat

I knew it was J-10

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> I knew it was J-10


8 of these only? :o


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## Avicenna

i think this video quoted the info about J-10 from a 2010 source.

i think BAF is likely going to go for another 8 used Mig-29 from a former USSR state.

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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> i think this video quoted the info about J-10 from a 2010 source.
> 
> i think BAF is likely going to go for another 8 used Mig-29 from a former USSR state.


not used, new version


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## Avicenna

As a non-military person (only with an interest), i wonder what the capabilities of the current BAF is. And i wonder what their thinking is in regards to the capability they hope to gain with additional platforms. That being said i dont think obtaining more Mig-29 is a good idea. I dont know the specifics about maintanance costs..etc.etc.., however Bangladesh is a small country. I would imagine a 2 engine machine requiring more resources to maintain than a single engine aircraft. 

I think what Bangaldesh needs is to create a small technologically advanced forced. Highly trained. With modern capabilties. I think the economy is getting there. We need to emphasize good training and Western philosophies in tactics and strategy. 

In terms of a new aircraft. How about retiring the Mig-29. Entertain buying the JF-17 block 3. Or used Gripens. Something with a single engine. Cheaper to maintain. With the capability to deliver modern munitions. BVR in air to air. PGM and stand off weapons for air to ground. anti ship capability. 

I think we need to see Myanmar as a more realistic adversary than India. However I hope evenutally to see the Bangladesh armed forces reach a capability level that would give pause to India bullying us in the future.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> As a non-military person (only with an interest), i wonder what the capabilities of the current BAF is. And i wonder what their thinking is in regards to the capability they hope to gain with additional platforms. That being said i dont think obtaining more Mig-29 is a good idea. I dont know the specifics about maintanance costs..etc.etc.., however Bangladesh is a small country. I would imagine a 2 engine machine requiring more resources to maintain than a single engine aircraft.
> 
> I think what Bangaldesh needs is to create a small technologically advanced forced. Highly trained. With modern capabilties. I think the economy is getting there. We need to emphasize good training and Western philosophies in tactics and strategy.
> 
> In terms of a new aircraft. How about retiring the Mig-29. Entertain buying the JF-17 block 3. Or used Gripens. Something with a single engine. Cheaper to maintain. With the capability to deliver modern munitions. BVR in air to air. PGM and stand off weapons for air to ground. anti ship capability.
> 
> I think we need to see Myanmar as a more realistic adversary than India. However I hope evenutally to see the Bangladesh armed forces reach a capability level that would give pause to India bullying us in the future.




BAF will be purchasing the latest MiGs. They are single engine and technically very good. 

J10 are not available yet as the Chinese engine development is not complete. China can not sell J10 with russian engines to anyone.

J17 block 3 is in development, it is not for sale. Migs are better.

Western jets are on offer to BAF but comes with many political and economic strings attached, as such BAF will not be buying them. In the short term BAF will be Russian and in the long term full of Chinese jets.


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## Avicenna

russian options are twin engined: mig-29/35 and su-30 have 2 engines.

at worst BAF is going to purchase used mig-29. a mid range option are new mig-35. i would be pleasantly surprised with new su-30. my hope to get blk 3 fc-1 or gripen will not happen.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> russian options are twin engined: mig-29/35 and su-30 have 2 engines.
> 
> at worst BAF is going to purchase used mig-29. a mid range option are new mig-35. i would be pleasantly surprised with new su-30. my hope to get blk 3 fc-1 or gripen will not happen.




Apologies you are correct the latest migs are twin engines are I am really expecting them. However it would not surprise me although not sure how feasible it is if we bought second hand single engine versions like what we already have .

I do not think BAF will buy sukois and introduce new maintenance infrastructure. We know the migs, have developed technical expertise and will buy more of them.

It's a waiting game.... BD will buy loads of jets it is just a question of can the Chinese provide them in time. 

In my opinion there is no possibility what so ever of western jets.


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## Gandh brandi

mb444 said:


> Apologies you are correct the latest migs are twin engines are I am really expecting them. However it would not surprise me although not sure how feasible it is if we bought second hand single engine versions like what we already have .
> 
> I do not think BAF will buy sukois and introduce new maintenance infrastructure. We know the migs, have developed technical expertise and will buy more of them.
> 
> It's a waiting game.... BD will buy loads of jets it is just a question of can the Chinese provide them in time.
> 
> In my opinion there is no possibility what so ever of western jets.


All russian jets are twin-engine. It's in their doctrine for maneuverability and harsh cold climate of Russia demands twin-engine planes. Even Canada might scrap/delay F-35 procurement and instead go for twin-engine F/A-18 since their war-mongering former conservative PM is out and it has same cold climate as Russia.


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## mb444

BAF migs are single engine, why?

I do not know who else operates single engine migs and why BD chose to go with single engine migs but one assumes we are not the only one.


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## BDforever

mb444 said:


> BAF migs are single engine, why?
> 
> I do not know who else operates single engine migs and why BD chose to go with single engine migs but one assumes we are not the only one.


you ok ? why do you guys bring such absurd topic even which does not exist ? since when BAF mig29s have become single engine even though never such mig29 designed, forget about production ?
ghum hoisilo thik moto ?  you guys seriously pisses me off

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## Avicenna

BDforever said:


> you ok ? why do you guys bring such absurd topic even which does not exist ? since when BAF mig29s have become single engine even though never such mig29 designed, forget about production ?
> ghum hoisilo thik moto ?  you guys seriously pisses me off



I think he is referring to the Chinese f-7 BAF has. I honestly think BAF is gonna go for used Mig-29 to complete the squadron. What BAF does with these 8 aircraft will show which direction it is going in.


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## mb444

BDforever said:


> you ok ? why do you guys bring such absurd topic even which does not exist ? since when BAF mig29s have become single engine even though never such mig29 designed, forget about production ?
> ghum hoisilo thik moto ?  you guys seriously pisses me off



if I am wrong I stand corrected... I was under the impression that our migs were single engine for whatever reason.


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## Avicenna

what i would love for BAF to happen is to be in a position to participate in joint exercises with other air forces in the region. Right now to be honest we have nothing to contribute. However, perhaps we could learn a thing or two from more sophisticated forces. Aren't we friendly with Thailand? China? i would love to say Pakistan but not with this current government. Maybe even Saudi Arabia or Turkey someday. But like i said right now we really have nothing to contribute to these exercises.


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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> what i would love for BAF to happen is to be in a position to participate in joint exercises with other air forces in the region. Right now to be honest we have nothing to contribute. However, perhaps we could learn a thing or two from more sophisticated forces. Aren't we friendly with Thailand? China? i would love to say Pakistan but not with this current government. Maybe even Saudi Arabia or Turkey someday. But like i said right now we really have nothing to contribute to these exercises.


lol


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## TopCat

Guys it aint be Mig this time for sure. Its the Chinese money, so it will be Chinese. And J-10A is exportable not the J-10B.


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## Avicenna

That would be really interesting. With the J-10A would be sd-10a bvr missile and pl-9c which we already have. perhaps in the future pl-10 and a hms. i want modern capabilities for this new purchase. more old mig-29 would be a disappointment. we need quality over quantity.

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## TopCat

mb444 said:


> Apologies you are correct the latest migs are twin engines are I am really expecting them. However it would not surprise me although not sure how feasible it is if we bought second hand single engine versions like what we already have .
> 
> I do not think BAF will buy sukois and introduce new maintenance infrastructure. We know the migs, have developed technical expertise and will buy more of them.
> 
> It's a waiting game.... BD will buy loads of jets it is just a question of can the Chinese provide them in time.
> 
> In my opinion there is no possibility what so ever of western jets.



We have to wait and see. 
But best combination would be SU-30/35 + J-10A/B.
I prefer SU-30 over Migs due to the fact that China produces and operates flankers. So our technician can always get extra hand from China apart from Russia.

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## Avicenna

i really do not want Mig-29. with the su-30 now that would be interesting as well. assuming myanmar is our main threat the range of the su-30 in conjunction with stand off weapons would give BAF a real advantage.

i doubt su-35 or j-10b is on the cards.

more important than weapons however is the continued attention to improving infrastructure, education and economy. that is the foundation of a country.

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## bluesky

TopCat said:


> I knew it was J-10


Before seeing the video, I thought it would be Mig-29s. I did not like people forecasting JF-17s.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> i think this video quoted the info about J-10 from a 2010 source.
> 
> i think BAF is likely going to go for another 8 used Mig-29 from a former USSR state.


It will be a bad purchase because all former soviet states have either retired their mig or are not in fly worthy condition. A smarted decision is to buy mig35 because of the cheaper maintenance and more suited to today's goals and requirements. Plus better performance.



Avicenna said:


> As a non-military person (only with an interest), i wonder what the capabilities of the current BAF is. And i wonder what their thinking is in regards to the capability they hope to gain with additional platforms. That being said i dont think obtaining more Mig-29 is a good idea. I dont know the specifics about maintanance costs..etc.etc.., however Bangladesh is a small country. I would imagine a 2 engine machine requiring more resources to maintain than a single engine aircraft.
> 
> I think what Bangaldesh needs is to create a small technologically advanced forced. Highly trained. With modern capabilties. I think the economy is getting there. We need to emphasize good training and Western philosophies in tactics and strategy.
> 
> In terms of a new aircraft. How about retiring the Mig-29. Entertain buying the JF-17 block 3. Or used Gripens. Something with a single engine. Cheaper to maintain. With the capability to deliver modern munitions. BVR in air to air. PGM and stand off weapons for air to ground. anti ship capability.
> 
> I think we need to see Myanmar as a more realistic adversary than India. However I hope evenutally to see the Bangladesh armed forces reach a capability level that would give pause to India bullying us in the future.


Russian and Chinese jets cost of maintenance is lower than American counterparts. For ex
A f-16 can take upto 26k $ per hour of flight maintenance. Mig 29 takes around 5500$.
I don't think jf-17 from mig is an upgrade. More downgrade tbh. However j-10 is a good deal and Bangladesh most probably will get those along with Russian jets... given we bought k-8 and yak-130 for training.



BDforever said:


> you ok ? why do you guys bring such absurd topic even which does not exist ? since when BAF mig29s have become single engine even though never such mig29 designed, forget about production ?
> ghum hoisilo thik moto ?  you guys seriously pisses me off


Ami hashtasi ekhane Oder kotha shune. Beshivag lok ekhane kuno kichui jane na. XD



Avicenna said:


> what i would love for BAF to happen is to be in a position to participate in joint exercises with other air forces in the region. Right now to be honest we have nothing to contribute. However, perhaps we could learn a thing or two from more sophisticated forces. Aren't we friendly with Thailand? China? i would love to say Pakistan but not with this current government. Maybe even Saudi Arabia or Turkey someday. But like i said right now we really have nothing to contribute to these exercises.


Bangladesh does excercises and participates in war games in Pakistan. It's always kept classified. Only on special forces level. Not on regular troops



TopCat said:


> Guys it aint be Mig this time for sure. Its the Chinese money, so it will be Chinese. And J-10A is exportable not the J-10B.


If we ain't getting j-10B then it's worthless jet. 
But you're wrong even j-10B is on export market and designated as FC-20 I believe. 
The A version was the first production version. Now B is produced with AESA radar and other changes in cockpit.



TopCat said:


> We have to wait and see.
> But best combination would be SU-30/35 + J-10A/B.
> I prefer SU-30 over Migs due to the fact that China produces and operates flankers. So our technician can always get extra hand from China apart from Russia.


I am certain that will be the future combinations. Flankers are more reliable cheaper and easier to maintain than the migs.

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## monitor

A Bangladesh Air Force's Yakovlev Yak-130 LIFT/CAS advanced trainer/Combat jet from Squadron-21 "Avengers" is seen test firing a R-73M Within Visual Range Air-to-Air Missiles (WVRAAM).
.
As an advanced training aircraft, The Yakovlev Yak-130 (NATO reporting name: Mitten) is able to replicate the characteristics of several 4+ generation fighters as well as the fifth-generation Sukhoi PAK FA. It can also perform light-attack and reconnaissance duties, carrying a combat load of ...

See More



_3 Comments_
_2 Shares_

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## Avicenna

Very nice!

Would love to see an Alamo launch from Mig-29.

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## syed1

41 Squadron, BAF

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## muhammadali233

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Russian and Chinese jets cost of maintenance is lower than American counterparts. For ex
> A f-16 can take upto 26k $ per hour of flight maintenance. Mig 29 takes around 5500$.
> I don't think jf-17 from mig is an upgrade. More downgrade tbh. However j-10 is a good deal and Bangladesh most probably will get those along with Russian jets... given we bought k-8 and yak-130 for training.


JF-17 a downgrade from BDAF mig-29?really?lol.
The F-7BGI is better than mig-29SE/SMT.
JF-17BLK-2 is better than anything BDAF currently fields,BLK-3 would be an overkill.


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## mb444

muhammadali233 said:


> JF-17 a downgrade from BDAF mig-29?really?lol.
> The F-7BGI is better than mig-29SE/SMT.
> JF-17BLK-2 is better than anything BDAF currently fields,BLK-3 would be an overkill.




But are your blk 2 planes for sale? Is block 3 actually in production?

BAF will buy Chinese.... I think the current BAL government won't entertain JF17 and there is no appetite for it in BAF having been evaluated. It's the J10 that BAF ideally wants..... Second and last option is russian jets.

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## syed1

31 Squadron "_Beyond the call of duty," _BAF


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## Kandari-Hushiyaar

What is this? Truck version of Fm90?


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## Avicenna

syed1 said:


> View attachment 362491
> View attachment 362490
> 
> 
> View attachment 362493
> View attachment 362493
> View attachment 362492
> View attachment 362494
> 41 Squadron, BAF



Beautiful pics! However unguided rockets fired from a Mig-29 doing air to ground isnt what i hope for.


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## mb444

mb444 said:


> But are your blk 2 planes for sale? Is block 3 actually in production?





Avicenna said:


> Beautiful pics! However unguided rockets fired from a Mig-29 doing air to ground isnt what i hope for.





Avicenna said:


> Beautiful pics! However unguided rockets fired from a Mig-29 doing air to ground isnt what i hope for.




If our new F7s are fitted with sd-10 which I read were near BVR capable missiles and these migs have been upgraded the SMT level surely they are also BVR capable. Can anyone with more technical knowledge regarding such thing comment.

These pics maybe just for show.... does not mean they lack the capacity.


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## Avicenna

I have seen Pics with BAF mig-29 carrying the aa-10. In fact one of those pics is my avatar. I am assuming they are real and not photoshopped. Moving forward I think it is prudent for BAF to embrace new capabilities and master them. in strictly air to air terms the most modern missiles BAF has are the archer and Alamo. Maybe get a platform that can mount sd-10? Or the newer Chinese missiles. Basically I know cash is short but for the future I hope capability, modern tactics and training are embraced. How about a stand off air to ground weapon? Or PGM capability? Things of that nature to give us an edge over Myanmar and some capability against India.


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## Arthur

Kandari-Hushiyaar said:


> What is this? Truck version of Fm90?


Reloading Vehicles.


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## Zabaniyah

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Oh I remember back when Bangladesh ordered 16 and then cancelled orders of 8 of them after Khaleda came to power... Russia increased the spare parts and maintenance cost. It was affordable else we wouldn't be requesting US for f-16 prior to mig purchase.
> Khaleda just had to steal money nothing more nothing less. Wouldn't say hasina haven't done the same.
> My guess is riyaj either quit Air Force when we decided to get mig 29 after f-16 request was rejected by USA or that he might have had done some kind of argument with his seniors about something and got dismissed? Who knows. There are many pictures of him training in f-16 in turkey.
> 
> Riyaj currently is a Bangladeshi actor making some meh to weird films for decades now.



I don't care about their cat-fights really. I'm just glad that it is gradually coming to an end.

As far as rejection of F-16's go, their perception is that we are a poor country and have no military threats whatsoever (which isn't entirely wrong at the time BTW). I'd say was a blessing in disguise. Just imagine the strings attached to them.

Watching Bangladeshi films makes me question if I am a Bangladeshi. Or is it the movie itself? I mean...WTF!?




mb444 said:


> I consider myself a nationalist and anti-BAL.... But I would strongly state that does not somehow makes me pro-BNP.
> 
> Nationalist first.....support of political party is situational on past record and policy position.
> 
> Party affiliation has nothing to do with being a nationalist.



Mmm...odd...I don't consider myself a nationalist. My views are very left for that matter. But that doesn't make me an AL'er, does it?

We all have our differences.



Khan saheb said:


> Well, I have put in my observation about this whole fiasco before.
> 
> 1. The planes were bought rather cheap, that's for sure.
> 
> 2.But the operational & maintainance cost was away above the level of BAF budget.
> 
> 3. Our economy was weak. No where near the boom we are seeing now. We were almost verge of defaulting on our import bills. The reserve was very low, just a mere $ 1 billion. Gov. had to stop paying import bills, cuz if foreign reserve goes below $ 1 billion your credit rating will be negative & no one will give you easy, soft loans for infrastructure or any other purposes.
> 
> 4. In that regard it wasn't a practical decision to keep the planes on air & keep carrying maintainance bills.
> 
> 5. And to my true knowledge BAF high command wasn't very pleased with the situation either. They didn't liked how only eight aircraft was eating up the budget of the whole fleet. So they grounded the fighters till proper funds can be managed & allocated.
> 
> Khaleda couldn't have done anything in that regard.
> 
> The plan of selling was just a stupid idea from the useless cronies of Khaleda, who wanted some piece from the cake but of course military top bruss taught them their place.
> 
> 6. And Seikh Hasina was indeed found liable, proved in the court that she indeed had made a wrong decision & caused the state economic & monetary losses through this deal. And that was during the Military supported Care Taker government.
> 
> So you people can really easy down from you political bashing band wagon. It seems kids nowadays take it as fashion trend, bashing people for useless reasons, without knowing or understanding the facts & context of things.



True that about the economy. Our economy is way better now in that regard.

Since 2014, deferred import bills had become very, very popular. Thanks to Bangladesh Bank for allowing financial institutions and big corporations (like Beximco) to get foreign loans. Bangladesh Bank had taken steps so that our FX reserves do not face too much pressure for deferred import bills. As per circular, we can now pay deferred bills >= $1,000,000 or 360 days tenor on a quarterly basis. And institutions abroad are willing to do transactions and give loans to us. And there are no signs of this trend slowing down! The trend is good. It is indeed a big leap since the 90's.

Bangladesh Bank also give many incentives and tax breaks to our exporters as well. Now this would give rise to even more deferred bills in the form of back-to-back L/C's (a sort of supply chain finance). And that makes our credit look good. The only question is if our banks can carry out that level of service? They have to be capable of handling that pressure, and that comes with good corporate governance. Rising NPL's is a concern here, particularly among the 4th gen banks. It is very unlikely they can offer that level of service. 

Now if the outlook is good, why not opt for something superior and something we can control? If I can build myself an autonomous fighter jet that is superior to any human piloted one out there in large numbers, I'll do it. Sounds like a stretch? Crazy even? Maybe that's because I don't trust any power that happen to be our suppliers. I know I'd bitch-slap each and every one of em if I can...

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## ~Phoenix~

Avicenna said:


> I have seen Pics with BAF mig-29 carrying the aa-10. In fact one of those pics is my avatar. I am assuming they are real and not photoshopped. Moving forward I think it is prudent for BAF to embrace new capabilities and master them. in strictly air to air terms the most modern missiles BAF has are the archer and Alamo. Maybe get a platform that can mount sd-10? Or the newer Chinese missiles. Basically I know cash is short but for the future I hope capability, modern tactics and training are embraced. How about a stand off air to ground weapon? Or PGM capability? Things of that nature to give us an edge over Myanmar and some capability against India.



Here






I have seen a BAF MiG-29 armed with the same teeth - 2 R-27s,2 R-73s and 2 R-60s in live television. However,I believe have a very low number of missiles for MiG-29s ( Never seen more than 3 MiG-29s armed at the same time )

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## Avicenna

Such a beautiful pic!


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## M_Saint

mb444 said:


> But are your blk 2 planes for sale? Is block 3 actually in production?
> 
> BAF will buy Chinese.... I think the current BAL government won't entertain JF17 and there is no appetite for it in BAF having been evaluated. It's the J10 that BAF ideally wants..... Second and last option is russian jets.


Yes they are and also block 111 are in production.

U'RE right that BAL wouldn't buy JF-17 but FC-1 AKA same as JF-17 is available from Chinese. IMO, even J-10 in large number is an overkill for BD due to its small air space but customized to supplement FC-1 is the way to go.



mb444 said:


> If our new F7s are fitted with sd-10 which I read were near BVR capable missiles and these migs have been upgraded the SMT level surely they are also BVR capable. Can anyone with more technical knowledge regarding such thing comment.
> 
> These pics maybe just for show.... does not mean they lack the capacity.


Even though F-7 BG & BGIs are the latest of the series, still lack true capability of firing SD-10 as a BVR missile but it could be housed by adding new pylon under the belly. Having good/nearly BVR capable radars in F-7s would help firing it far and that's enough for BD's defensive posturing IMO. BRO, BAF's MIGs aren't SMTs but are updated UPGs. Those were bought as 2nd hands and until former Finance minister released over $100 millions, Ruskies refuse to upgrade'em to make flyable. 

Lately 4 of it were in UKRAINE for upgrade and spare parts issue was nightmares a few years ago. Indians were the sole beneficiary of that sale that got a good deal for MIG-29Ks from Ruskies.There were graft case against Hasina about it and Frigate's purchase and she would have been convicted unless came to power by Indian's aid.


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## Zabaniyah

syed1 said:


> View attachment 362491
> View attachment 362490
> 
> 
> View attachment 362493
> View attachment 362493
> View attachment 362492
> View attachment 362494
> 41 Squadron, BAF



Those are rare photos. 

Thanks for sharing them...


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## Species

Loki said:


> Those are rare photos.
> 
> Thanks for sharing them...



Screenshots from the TVC.

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## Zabaniyah

Species said:


> Screenshots from the TVC.



It's the first time I've seen a BAF MiG-29 firing something...

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## syed1




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## Dean Winchester

BAF has a total of 153 aircraft(incl helicopters), assuming all 16 Yak-130 delivered.
Bangladesh Army has 15 aircraft.
Bangladesh Navy has 4 aircraft.
Bangladesh Police has 2 helicopters.


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## BDforever

Dean Winchester said:


> BAF has a total of 153 aircraft(incl helicopters), assuming all 16 Yak-130 delivered.
> Bangladesh Army has 12 aircraft.
> Bangladesh Navy has 4 aircraft.
> Bangladesh Police has 2 helicopters.


Coast Guard has 2 Helicopters and Army has 18, Army has taken delivery of 6 Mil171sh recently

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## Arthur

Loki said:


> It's the first time I've seen a BAF MiG-29 firing something...



Hahaha....

I don't understand the lack of interest about photography in our armed forces. 
Pretty disappointing considering they take part in live fire exercise every year, but still no photos for general consumption.

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## Dean Winchester

BDforever said:


> Coast Guard has 2 Helicopters and Army has 18, Army has taken delivery of 6 Mil171sh recently


Coast guard is yet to take delivery of any choppers.
On army I have corrected, though as far as I am aware so far 3 Mi-17 delivered.Correct me if I am wrong by giving a source.


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## Zabaniyah

BDforever said:


> Coast Guard has 2 Helicopters and Army has 18, Army has taken delivery of 6 Mil171sh recently



That guy is a troll.

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## Dean Winchester

Loki said:


> That guy is a troll.


You are talking about yourself.


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## syed1



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## syed1

One of the 14 new PT 6 of BAF which was supplied a few months ago

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## Imran Khan



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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Here
> View attachment 362782
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen a BAF MiG-29 armed with the same teeth - 2 R-27s,2 R-73s and 2 R-60s in live television. However,I believe have a very low number of missiles for MiG-29s ( Never seen more than 3 MiG-29s armed at the same time )


We bought around 100 more back in 2010



muhammadali233 said:


> JF-17 a downgrade from BDAF mig-29?really?lol.
> The F-7BGI is better than mig-29SE/SMT.
> JF-17BLK-2 is better than anything BDAF currently fields,BLK-3 would be an overkill.


Go play somewhere else kiddo. F16 has a turn rate of 26. 24 with external tanks. Mig 29 has 28. 
If that's the case then if-17 is better than Pakistani f-16 which is bullshit.


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## khanasifm

bluesky said:


> *"MiG-29K"
> "12 MiG-29K and 4 MiG-29KUB contract signed in 20th January 2004 is worth Rs 3,405.61 crores as per CAG. For an exchange rate of 45.43 at that time, the amount translates to $749.7 million. Hence the average cost of a single MiG-29K is $46.9 million."
> 
> "The contracts for the jets also stipulate pilot training and aircraft maintenance, including the delivery of flight simulators and interactive ground and sea-based training systems. So the unit cost of the MiG-29K variant is still unknown".*
> 
> Above is an excerpt from an article that speaks of Indian purchase of fulcrums along with the *price in 2004*. It was $46.9 million per unit. Prices were lower in terms of dollar in 1997---, but not what Begum Zia implied. During her 1st term, Hasina bought the 8 planes by only $11 million each. It was completely a friendship price because I have read some other materials that say the price was *$15 million each at that time for a purchase of a large 50 units. *
> 
> However, our stupid Khaleda initiated a policy of vengeance against Hasina claiming irregularities in the purchase of the Migs. This hypocrite tried to sell them to a 3rd country, and then filed a criminal case against Hasina, which she could not prove in the Court, anyway. Not only this, that Khaleda also made the frigate Bangabandhu a naval museum citing a high maintenance cost.
> 
> BNP government under Khaleda was against the military purchases that made military unhappy. On the contrary, Hasina understands what the military wants out of the govt., and she has been always showing positive mindedness in her tenures as the PM. Khaleda should understand why she cannot expect a military takeover whatever is the notorious & hooligan Awami domestic policy is.




46 mil so long ago ?? Never expected mig 29 to cost so.much but again twin engine fighter are twice as costly as single engine operating as well as intial cost, f16 was developed to address f15 high cost

Any western fighter will be more expensive and Russians do not have a single engine plus based on past experience does not leave much choice unless they adopt a trainer like l15 at 15 million or little more 20-30 mil jf/fc1 (pure chinese vs some europeans avionics)and j10 is 40/45 mil ???

Used f16 at 10/20 mil?? But may not be an.option mig 29 were/are option.perhpas due to long term financing by Russia ?? Time will tell


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Any news of 8 fighter aircraft procurement? which country going to supply? But only 8 !!, at least 16 should be procure at a time.


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## Avicenna

Probably going to be another 8 Mig-29. Most likely used.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Probably going to be another 8 Mig-29. Most likely used.


Only countries operating them that are willing to sell are countries like Bulgaria... but I am not sure if they're in fly worthy condition.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Within 2020 BD Air force needs 48 Fighter jets. SU 30 MK2, Mig 35, J 10B, Saab Gripen from these birds origin should be two which can make BD fleet strong.


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## Michael Corleone

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Within 2020 BD Air force needs 48 Fighter jets. SU 30 MK2, Mig 35, J 10B, Saab Gripen from these birds origin should be two which can make BD fleet strong.


Su 30 is going to give the coverage Bangladesh needs to protect maritime assets.


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## bdslph

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Su 30 is going to give the coverage Bangladesh needs to protect maritime assets.





Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Within 2020 BD Air force needs 48 Fighter jets. SU 30 MK2, Mig 35, J 10B, Saab Gripen from these birds origin should be two which can make BD fleet strong.



su30 is long range so good for the sea and naval use 
for the use of inside the land base j10 and other can be bought


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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> su30 is long range so good for the sea and naval use
> for the use of inside the land base j10 and other can be bought


see the more diverse you make your fleet... the more personnel you have to keep whose speciality will be to maintain a particular aircraft... this also raised cost because bangladesh will get only around 200 in total... getting small numbers of different models isnt a good idea... two differrent model is okay... any more than that is not practical for a force as small as bangladesh.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Mohammed Khaled said:


> see the more diverse you make your fleet... the more personnel you have to keep whose speciality will be to maintain a particular aircraft... this also raised cost because bangladesh will get only around 200 in total... getting small numbers of different models isnt a good idea... two differrent model is okay... any more than that is not practical for a force as small as bangladesh.



For the initial phase of till 2022 2 squadron su 30 & 2 squadron J 10, Russian & China combination it will be the perfect decision for purchase. not again mig 29. becoz its time to go ahead far away from MM.


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## bdslph

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> For the initial phase of till 2022 2 squadron su 30 & 2 squadron J 10, Russian & China combination it will be the perfect decision for purchase. not again mig 29. becoz its time to go ahead far away from MM.



in future mig35 i would like to see it is in final testing phase and also will be inducted to Russian airforce 

i dont want mig29 anymore 

yeah it is expensive and nightmares to maintain so many mig 29 mig35 j10 su30 
but if we cannot do much then we should stick to more modern j10 series


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## Bengal Tiger 71

BD needs to fixed again a big deal urgently like last deal with Russia 1 billion,equipment should be 2 squadron fighter jets, long range air defense system & 2 good quality long range missile guided frigate.


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## Michael Corleone

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> For the initial phase of till 2022 2 squadron su 30 & 2 squadron J 10, Russian & China combination it will be the perfect decision for purchase. not again mig 29. becoz its time to go ahead far away from MM.


Mig 29 isn't sold anymore... it's production line is in process of shut down.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Mig 29 isn't sold anymore... it's production line is in process of shut down.


ohh, i would like to see new birds in BAF fleet.


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## bluesky




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## Bengal Tiger 71

Coming 8 MRCA is SU 30 MK2s for BAF.

Source:https://thaimilitaryandasianregion....30/su-30sm-multirole-fighter-aircraft-russia/


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## TopCat

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Coming 8 MRCA is SU 30 MK2s for BAF.
> 
> Source:https://thaimilitaryandasianregion....30/su-30sm-multirole-fighter-aircraft-russia/


Your link is dead besides the post is from 2015


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## ~Phoenix~

Imran Khan said:


>



Only reason you would post it is in the background.

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## Imran Khan

~Phoenix~ said:


> Only reason you would post it is in the background.


I posted pia a-310 at hazrat shajalal airport . There is something else in pic ?

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## kobiraaz

TopCat said:


> Your link is dead besides the post is from 2015



Heard from a BAF pilot that the 8Mig29 will be replaced by Su30 soon.

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## bdslph

kobiraaz said:


> Heard from a BAF pilot that the 8Mig29 will be replaced by Su30 soon.



this 8 mig29 are useless it will be good if all are retired and sold and the su30 replaces them


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## rome333

bdslph said:


> this 8 mig29 are useless it will be good if all are retired and sold and the su30 replaces them


But for SU30 we will be dependent on India for spares and overhawl, their maintenance cost is also higher and we specially need them for our Navy's air arm. For air supiority single engine is enough.


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## Bilal9

rome333 said:


> But for SU30 we will be dependent on India for spares and overhawl, their maintenance cost is also higher and we specially need them for our Navy's air arm. For air supiority single engine is enough.



What happened to us evaluating the Gripen? There is a Sea Gripen version and the Brazilians are evaluating them as Douglas A-4 Skyhawk (scooter) replacement.

The Thais, South Africans, Czechs and Slovakians have them, some of them had Mig29's before this and the Gripen was a replacement. Also these countries have no enemies or threats.

I think the Volvo Flygmotor manufactured engine is a GE 404 engine though. So there are still strings attached.


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## rome333

Bilal9 said:


> What happened to us evaluating the Gripen? The Thais have them. I think the Volvo Flygmotor engine is a GE 404 engine though.


You are correct. For the same reason as with F16, we may not consider Grippen. Although both F16 and Gripen are excelent machines for their prices.
Remember as a Muslim country we always got a Bullseye back of our head.

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> What happened to us evaluating the Gripen? There is a Sea Gripen version and the Brazilians are evaluating them as Douglas A-4 Skyhawk (scooter) replacement.
> 
> The Thais, South Africans, Czechs and Slovakians have them, some of them had Mig29's before this and the Gripen was a replacement. Also these countries have no enemies or threats.
> 
> I think the Volvo Flygmotor manufactured engine is a GE 404 engine though. So there are still strings attached.


SU30 are great for a small fleet like us. Their radar can cover twice the area of BD and once the enemy locked there is no way of escaping.

Those bullcrap gripen has no deterrance capability.

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## bdslph

gripen and f16 are full of strong string attached su30 can be maintained in russia as the line of su30 are still open 
if india do the maintain it i will not trust the work 
f16 in future if india choose it it will be maintain by india for sure


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## Bilal9

bdslph said:


> gripen and f16 are full of strong string attached su30 can be maintained in russia as the line of su30 are still open
> if india do the maintain it i will not trust the work
> f16 in future if india choose it it will be maintain by india for sure



If not SU30 could we get the Chinese versions like J-11? Here's a comparison. Design can be same, but Avionics, IFF, AESA radar need to be Chinese. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia produces myriad variations of the Flanker that range from the relatively basic Su-30M2 to the top-of-the-line Su-35S Flanker-E. But moreover, there are a host of Chinese-made copies of the Flanker. And China continues to tinker with the design to develop ever more advanced and creative variations of the original Soviet design. Most of these Chinese knock-offs are unlicensed derivatives that Beijing reverse engineered and modified from the original Russian hardware. Indeed, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that Chinese and Russian derivatives of the Flanker will be fighting over sales in the coming years. One can easily imagine a scenario where Sukhoi’s Su-35 goes head-to-head with the J-11D in a future export battle.

Overall, for now at least, Russian-built Flankers retain the technical edge over their inferior Chinese copies. Sukhoi’s Su-35S is by far the most capable version of the Flanker that has been built to date. It has advanced avionics, a much-improved airframe and new motors with three-dimensional thrust vectoring. It’s a very capable fighter that—if fielded in numbers—would be a potent threat to Western air forces. Other Russian Flanker variants like the Su-30SM and Su-34 are also very capable warplanes.

But the Chinese are catching up—they’ve gone beyond just reverse engineering and have started to branch off into original works of their own. Indeed, a senior U.S. industry official once told me that the Chinese are starting to embark on an aerospace “renaissance.” The main problem for the Chinese is that they are woefully behind on engine technology. While Chinese engineers are able to build working engines in the lab, they are not able to build reliable production jet engines. It remains their single biggest Achilles’ Heel.

While the Chinese are almost certainly catching up on aircraft avionics and sensors, it is not clear how capable their systems are. It is evident that the Chinese are developing passive electronically scanned array radar and active electronically scanned array radars, but how close those systems are to “prime time” is not clear. Similarly, the Chinese are developing their own electronic warfare systems, infrared search and track and electro-optical targeting systems. But there is very little data on how those systems might perform in the real world—even if the brochures are impressive. Given that the Chinese are relative novices at building indigenous combat aircraft and their subsystems, it is highly likely that most of the original Russian-built Flanker variants are still superior to Beijing’s knock-offs.


Nonetheless, Beijing’s aerospace industry has produced an impressive array of Flanker clones. In addition to the original J-11, J-11A and the indigenized J-11B—China is working on advanced derivatives including the J-11BS, J-11D and the J-16 strike fighter. The Chinese have also developed the J-15 carrier-variant from a prototype of the Su-33 Flanker. The three most capable Chinese Flankers are the J-15, J-11D and J-16. The J-11D is in many respects the Chinese equivalent of the Su-35—but it is overall less capable with inferior maneuverability and inferior avionics and powerplant. But it’s probably cheaper—and might be an attractive export product if the Chinese could craft operationally useable engines. But that’s still a ways off.

China will eventually be able to compete with and even one day surpass Russia in the military aviation industry. The Chinese have a lot of money and they are willing to spend it on developing their capabilities. The Chinese are also more than willing to steal any technology that they don’t already possess—and that helps save development time and money. Moreover, now that they have more or less picked Russia clean of any useful technological innovations, Beijing is focusing on raiding the U.S. defense-aerospace sector for American technical knowhow.

But ultimately, China is clearly hamstrung by a lack of indigenous innovation and horrendously bad quality controls—one of the many reason Beijing continues to fail in it is efforts to build a working jet engine. Until Beijing perfects jet engines, its aerospace industry will not be able secure customers independent of Russia.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Article was written by an Indian defense analyst. hence the negative tone......

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-su-35-fighter-vs-chinas-j-11d-who-wins-14207*

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> What happened to us evaluating the Gripen? There is a Sea Gripen version and the Brazilians are evaluating them as Douglas A-4 Skyhawk (scooter) replacement.
> 
> The Thais, South Africans, Czechs and Slovakians have them, some of them had Mig29's before this and the Gripen was a replacement. Also these countries have no enemies or threats.
> 
> I think the Volvo Flygmotor manufactured engine is a GE 404 engine though. So there are still strings attached.


SU30 are great for a small fleet like us. Their radar can cover twice the area of BD and once the enemy locked there is no way of escaping.

Those bullcrap gripen has no deterrance capability.


Bilal9 said:


> If not SU30 could we get the Chinese versions like J-11? Here's a comparison. Design can be same, but Avionics, IFF, AESA radar need to be Chinese.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Russia produces myriad variations of the Flanker that range from the relatively basic Su-30M2 to the top-of-the-line Su-35S Flanker-E. But moreover, there are a host of Chinese-made copies of the Flanker. And China continues to tinker with the design to develop ever more advanced and creative variations of the original Soviet design. Most of these Chinese knock-offs are unlicensed derivatives that Beijing reverse engineered and modified from the original Russian hardware. Indeed, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that Chinese and Russian derivatives of the Flanker will be fighting over sales in the coming years. One can easily imagine a scenario where Sukhoi’s Su-35 goes head-to-head with the J-11D in a future export battle.
> 
> Overall, for now at least, Russian-built Flankers retain the technical edge over their inferior Chinese copies. Sukhoi’s Su-35S is by far the most capable version of the Flanker that has been built to date. It has advanced avionics, a much-improved airframe and new motors with three-dimensional thrust vectoring. It’s a very capable fighter that—if fielded in numbers—would be a potent threat to Western air forces. Other Russian Flanker variants like the Su-30SM and Su-34 are also very capable warplanes.
> 
> But the Chinese are catching up—they’ve gone beyond just reverse engineering and have started to branch off into original works of their own. Indeed, a senior U.S. industry official once told me that the Chinese are starting to embark on an aerospace “renaissance.” The main problem for the Chinese is that they are woefully behind on engine technology. While Chinese engineers are able to build working engines in the lab, they are not able to build reliable production jet engines. It remains their single biggest Achilles’ Heel.
> 
> While the Chinese are almost certainly catching up on aircraft avionics and sensors, it is not clear how capable their systems are. It is evident that the Chinese are developing passive electronically scanned array radar and active electronically scanned array radars, but how close those systems are to “prime time” is not clear. Similarly, the Chinese are developing their own electronic warfare systems, infrared search and track and electro-optical targeting systems. But there is very little data on how those systems might perform in the real world—even if the brochures are impressive. Given that the Chinese are relative novices at building indigenous combat aircraft and their subsystems, it is highly likely that most of the original Russian-built Flanker variants are still superior to Beijing’s knock-offs.
> 
> 
> Nonetheless, Beijing’s aerospace industry has produced an impressive array of Flanker clones. In addition to the original J-11, J-11A and the indigenized J-11B—China is working on advanced derivatives including the J-11BS, J-11D and the J-16 strike fighter. The Chinese have also developed the J-15 carrier-variant from a prototype of the Su-33 Flanker. The three most capable Chinese Flankers are the J-15, J-11D and J-16. The J-11D is in many respects the Chinese equivalent of the Su-35—but it is overall less capable with inferior maneuverability and inferior avionics and powerplant. But it’s probably cheaper—and might be an attractive export product if the Chinese could craft operationally useable engines. But that’s still a ways off.
> 
> China will eventually be able to compete with and even one day surpass Russia in the military aviation industry. The Chinese have a lot of money and they are willing to spend it on developing their capabilities. The Chinese are also more than willing to steal any technology that they don’t already possess—and that helps save development time and money. Moreover, now that they have more or less picked Russia clean of any useful technological innovations, Beijing is focusing on raiding the U.S. defense-aerospace sector for American technical knowhow.
> 
> But ultimately, China is clearly hamstrung by a lack of indigenous innovation and horrendously bad quality controls—one of the many reason Beijing continues to fail in it is efforts to build a working jet engine. Until Beijing perfects jet engines, its aerospace industry will not be able secure customers independent of Russia.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Article was written by an Indian defense analyst. hence the negative tone......
> 
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-su-35-fighter-vs-chinas-j-11d-who-wins-14207*


China committed to not to export any of the flaker variant with the Russian.


----------



## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> this 8 mig29 are useless it will be good if all are retired and sold and the su30 replaces them


They are the only things that's capable of defending our 16 Crore collective ***. Ever thought we should sell of those pesky f-7 instead?



rome333 said:


> You are correct. For the same reason as with F16, we may not consider Grippen. Although both F16 and Gripen are excelent machines for their prices.
> Remember as a Muslim country we always got a Bullseye back of our head.


Gripes comes with same strings attached to the f-16 so not an option.

If bd seriously wants 10 sdr of fighter jets... they should consider signing a big deal with irkut to make a fighter specially for us... as the Chinese, Malaysians, Indians and Venezuelans have done. That way the cost goes down with more successive production and we get a solid future proof machine with possibilities of tech transfer to build in Bangladesh. 
And as for f-16 or gripen... it will be an operational upgrade but overall combat efficiency downgrade.


----------



## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> If not SU30 could we get the Chinese versions like J-11? Here's a comparison. Design can be same, but Avionics, IFF, AESA radar need to be Chinese.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Russia produces myriad variations of the Flanker that range from the relatively basic Su-30M2 to the top-of-the-line Su-35S Flanker-E. But moreover, there are a host of Chinese-made copies of the Flanker. And China continues to tinker with the design to develop ever more advanced and creative variations of the original Soviet design. Most of these Chinese knock-offs are unlicensed derivatives that Beijing reverse engineered and modified from the original Russian hardware. Indeed, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that Chinese and Russian derivatives of the Flanker will be fighting over sales in the coming years. One can easily imagine a scenario where Sukhoi’s Su-35 goes head-to-head with the J-11D in a future export battle.
> 
> Overall, for now at least, Russian-built Flankers retain the technical edge over their inferior Chinese copies. Sukhoi’s Su-35S is by far the most capable version of the Flanker that has been built to date. It has advanced avionics, a much-improved airframe and new motors with three-dimensional thrust vectoring. It’s a very capable fighter that—if fielded in numbers—would be a potent threat to Western air forces. Other Russian Flanker variants like the Su-30SM and Su-34 are also very capable warplanes.
> 
> But the Chinese are catching up—they’ve gone beyond just reverse engineering and have started to branch off into original works of their own. Indeed, a senior U.S. industry official once told me that the Chinese are starting to embark on an aerospace “renaissance.” The main problem for the Chinese is that they are woefully behind on engine technology. While Chinese engineers are able to build working engines in the lab, they are not able to build reliable production jet engines. It remains their single biggest Achilles’ Heel.
> 
> While the Chinese are almost certainly catching up on aircraft avionics and sensors, it is not clear how capable their systems are. It is evident that the Chinese are developing passive electronically scanned array radar and active electronically scanned array radars, but how close those systems are to “prime time” is not clear. Similarly, the Chinese are developing their own electronic warfare systems, infrared search and track and electro-optical targeting systems. But there is very little data on how those systems might perform in the real world—even if the brochures are impressive. Given that the Chinese are relative novices at building indigenous combat aircraft and their subsystems, it is highly likely that most of the original Russian-built Flanker variants are still superior to Beijing’s knock-offs.
> 
> 
> Nonetheless, Beijing’s aerospace industry has produced an impressive array of Flanker clones. In addition to the original J-11, J-11A and the indigenized J-11B—China is working on advanced derivatives including the J-11BS, J-11D and the J-16 strike fighter. The Chinese have also developed the J-15 carrier-variant from a prototype of the Su-33 Flanker. The three most capable Chinese Flankers are the J-15, J-11D and J-16. The J-11D is in many respects the Chinese equivalent of the Su-35—but it is overall less capable with inferior maneuverability and inferior avionics and powerplant. But it’s probably cheaper—and might be an attractive export product if the Chinese could craft operationally useable engines. But that’s still a ways off.
> 
> China will eventually be able to compete with and even one day surpass Russia in the military aviation industry. The Chinese have a lot of money and they are willing to spend it on developing their capabilities. The Chinese are also more than willing to steal any technology that they don’t already possess—and that helps save development time and money. Moreover, now that they have more or less picked Russia clean of any useful technological innovations, Beijing is focusing on raiding the U.S. defense-aerospace sector for American technical knowhow.
> 
> But ultimately, China is clearly hamstrung by a lack of indigenous innovation and horrendously bad quality controls—one of the many reason Beijing continues to fail in it is efforts to build a working jet engine. Until Beijing perfects jet engines, its aerospace industry will not be able secure customers independent of Russia.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Article was written by an Indian defense analyst. hence the negative tone......
> 
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-su-35-fighter-vs-chinas-j-11d-who-wins-14207*





Mohammed Khaled said:


> You guys do know that f-16 maintenance cost is more than our mig29? Inspite of being a single engine jet?





Mohammed Khaled said:


> They are the only things that's capable of defending our 16 Crore collective ***. Ever thought we should sell of those pesky f-7 instead?
> 
> 
> Gripes comes with same strings attached to the f-16 so not an option.
> 
> If bd seriously wants 10 sdr of fighter jets... they should consider signing a big deal with irkut to make a fighter specially for us... as the Chinese, Malaysians, Indians and Venezuelans have done. That way the cost goes down with more successive production and we get a solid future proof machine with possibilities of tech transfer to build in Bangladesh.
> And as for f-16 or gripen... it will be an operational upgrade but overall combat efficiency downgrade.



china cannot sale equivalent to j11 as it is su series in russia no thirrd party agreement
future the jc31 j14 j15 kind of plane we can buy
f7 and mig29 we need to dispose it they are useless what we have 
jf 17 blk3 is out of question as BAL is in power and China will not open FC1 line as Pakistan will lose market
we have from china the j10 c only option and other FBC1 for bomber

we can order the su30 series specalized in BD model also the Mig35 OVT 
su 27 is old already mig35 is new plane 
other we have like su 37 35 34 they are expensive for us 

f16 and jas 39 gripen is out of question as string attached

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## bdslph

Russian Legendary MiG-35 is Back in the Game
watch that its good

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## Arthur

In case of SU 30 MK2, BAF can always turn to China for localisation of critical maintainance, overhaul & training.

China has great capabilities in maintaining these fighters both the airframe & Saturn AL 31 engine series.
@Bilal9 @rome333 

@wanglaokan

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## 帅的一匹

Khan saheb said:


> In case of SU 30 MK2, BAF can always turn to China for localisation of critical maintainance, overhaul & training.
> 
> China has great capabilities in maintaining these fighters both the airframe & Saturn AL 31 engine series.
> @Bilal9 @rome333
> 
> @wanglaokan


We can offer BAF piloted training of Su30MK, and set up overhaul and maintenance facility, also help to extend the life span of Al31 engine to 1500 hours by applying the recycling tech China owns. We can even provide Taihang turbo jet engine to power the Su30MK fighter if you need. We know how to rewrite the source code of the Su30MK so that it can carry Chinese missiles and ASM. I think Rusky will be very unhappy if we doing so.

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## rome333

Does that mean the same Probable SU30 MK2 for both Airforce and Navy's air arm?


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## gslv mk3

rome333 said:


> Does that mean the same Probable SU30 MK2 for both Airforce and Navy's air arm?



You are planning to have a fighter squadron in your Naval Air arm ?


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## Arthur

Mohammed Khaled said:


> They are the only things that's capable of defending our 16 Crore collective ***. Ever thought we should sell of those pesky f-7 instead?


To be honest, I don't understand the hate for the trusted F-7.  It's the best fighter in it's design era & price group.
At least ours are not flying coffins from the cold war.



rome333 said:


> Does that mean the same Probable SU30 MK2 for both Airforce and Navy's air arm?


Yes. It also keeps the path open
for an Al 31FN3 powered J 10 in BAF service.



wanglaokan said:


> We can offer BAF piloted training of Su30MK, and set up overhaul and maintenance facility, also help to extend the life span of Al31 engine to 1500 hours by applying the recycling tech China owns. We can even provide Taihang turbo jet engine to power the Su30MK fighter if you need. We know how to rewrite the source code of the Su30MK so that it can carry Chinese missiles and ASM. I think Rusky will be very unhappy if we doing so.


 Thanks for putting these informations in a nutshell for us in this thread. It's a great thing that BD can work with China in the field of defence & mutual interest.

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## rome333

Khan saheb said:


> To be honest, I don't understand the hate for the trusted F-7.  It's the best fighter in it's design era & price group.
> At least ours are not flying coffins from the cold war.
> 
> 
> Yes. It also keeps the path open
> for an Al 31FN3 powered J 10 in BAF service.
> 
> 
> Thanks to the very informative China Forum here I am aware of these capabilities of China. Thanks for putting those informations in a nutshell for us in this thread. It's a great thing that BD can work with China in the field of defence & mutual interest.
> 
> View attachment 368091


So its the same engine on two different airframes. Great saving options out there! Lets go shopping then. BD govt can ask for extra tax this year cause I am willing to pay!

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## bd_4_ever

For the short term (next 2-3 years): just get 16-24 SU 30s or 35s. It will do more then a better job alongside our current F7s to defend the airspace.

For the long term (2030): 10 sqds, J-10/11 and SUs should make up our inventory. I dont think we need to consider western options and Gripens for our AF. Dont need them. As @TopCat mentioned, a good fleet of SUs are more then enough to defend our airspace. Maintenance gets easier as well because we can always go to China or even develop our own capability.

We dont need more aircrafts other then that. The wider the range, the more the financial and maintenance concern. Just keep building the SAM batteries and get better AA defence umbrella. Any airforce will think twice before venturing in.

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## Avicenna

How much would 8 Su-30MK2 cost?


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## damiendehorn

Avicenna said:


> How much would 8 Su-30MK2 cost?



Depends on the specs, and other options. Price for 8 would cost $375m to $550m.....


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## bangali nazi

Avicenna said:


> How much would 8 Su-30MK2 cost?


400 million usd i think


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## ~Phoenix~

Imran Khan said:


> I posted pia a-310 at hazrat shajalal airport . There is something else in pic ?




Wrong thread then 




For those who think that J-11 is the best Chinese flanker produced.





The Shenyang J-16 is a Long Range Multi-Role Fighter/Bomber,developed from the J-11 BS with much more longer range and advanced avoinics...similar to the F-15E Strike Eagle.
With 12 pylons,the J-16 is able to carry a full range of indigenous Chinese equipment including super and subsonic anti-ship missiles, air to air missiles, satellite guided bombs, cruise missiles and electronic countermeasure (ECM) jammers.It has been speculated that the J-16's WS-10 engines lack sufficient power for the aircraft, given their design faults and the greater weight of the airframe compared to other Chinese Su-27 variants, and that an engine upgrade will be needed to allow the new plane to meet its design potential which gives us another reason why China wants Russian Su-35's thrust vectoring engines.There are two variants - the standard variant and the J-16D, the electronic warfare variant. It has wingtip pods resembling the AN/ALQ-218, up to ten fuselage and wing hardpoints, and no IRST or 30 mm cannon. It reportedly made its first flight in December 2015.

*Armament*


1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
Munitions on twelve external hardpoints, including:

8 × PL-12, and 4 × PL-9 air-to-air missiles
Various bombs and rockets including BeiDou satellite-guided bombs and laser-guided bombs
Anti-ship and anti-radiation missiles
Electronic countermeasure (ECM) pods

Kira.


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## rome333

Is not SU30 MK2 a dedicated Maritime Strike Fighter with increased payload? If so then are not we suppossed to get SU30 MKK like the Chinese, for our Airforce? Rather than SU30 MK2 for all!


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## Russell

Anything that is 'long range' is a waste of money in my estimation - our size, doctrine and posture makes it redundant.

20-25 years down the line...who knows....but, at the moment...nah.


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## ~Phoenix~

gslv mk3 said:


> You are planning to have a fighter squadron in your Naval Air arm ?



Yes.3 squadrons are planned.
Spoiler : Its most probably FC-01.





If China is unwilling to sell J-16s,we still have J-15.




The Shenyang J-15 "Flying Shark" is developed from Su-33 ( the main body structure ) and J-10B ( Nose,Engines,Avoinics,Arament ) for its carrier Liaoning,and the another much larger carrier which is under construction.( Yes,the J-31 would be in that as well as the J-15 )
Apart from those,China is developing a newer and stronger variant of J-15 "Flying Shark" which has AESA ( Active Electronic Scanned Array ) radar and rivals the F/A-18 in terms of technology,arament and capabilities.Also,they are planning to upgrade existing J-15s to that level.( We can go for this variant )

*Armament*


1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
Munitions on twelve external hardpoints, including:

8 × PL-12 or R-77, and 4 × PL-9 or R-73 air-to-air missiles
Various bombs and rockets
Anti ship and anti radiation missiles.
Electronic countermeasure (ECM) pods
We can stick with a few squadrons of Su-30s or MiG-29s or J-10s for now,but 2025 onwards we need a 5th Generation bird.
The only one possible for our budget is the Shenyang J-31 "Falcon Hawk" which is equivalent to the F-35 except it does not have VTOL capability.




The J-31 Gyr Falcon/ Falcon Hawk may have lost to the J-20 for the PLAAF role,but it still has huge potential for export,and carrier based fighter.Its more like a copy-paste of F-35 with some modifications ( remember the F-35 technology theft? ).Its the most cost economical stealth fighter as well as being a very effective one.
Pakistan expressed interest in that,as well as Ukarine and Iran.

J-31 incorporates certain stealth characters such as forward swept intake ramps with divertless supersonic inlets ( known as DSI ) bumps and a two-piece canopy.

*Airframe*
The J-31 is smaller than the Chengdu J-20. The use of twin-wheel nose landing gear led to speculations that the J-31 may intended to be a carrier based fighter.Many US key personnel have cited several improvements to the F-35C design files the Chinese may have acquired in the J-31.Like the F-35, the J-31 has two internal weapons bays that can each carry two medium range missiles, along with two heavy hardpoints and one light hardpoint on each wing, but while it seems to have added an additional light hardpoint to each wing over the capacity of the F-35, it seems to lack the capacity of the F-35 to mount a centerline gunnery or jamming pod.

Official from AVIC claimed that additive manufacturing was extensively used on the aircraft, resulting in 50% reduction in components compared to similar aircraft. However, the resulting airframe cannot be disassembled, and the static test frame had to be transported in whole as consequence.

*Engines*
According to Vladimir Barkovsky of Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (formerly known as the Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau), the engines on the prototype aircraft are RD-93s.However, China already has an engine similar to the RD-93, the Guizhou WS-19 currently installed on the JF-17/FC-01 which has the same thrust and size of the Russian RD-93. China is working on an improved variant named WS-13E with 100KN of thrust for use on the J-31. Lin Zuoming, chairman of China's AVIC has said that he hopes to put domestic engines on the fighter.As the Chinese build up confidence in newer, more reliable and powerful domestic engines, they may be able to power the J-31 sooner than the larger J-20 and in greater numbers.

*Payload*
The J-31 can carry 8000 kg (17637 lb) of payload, with four munitions totaling 2000 kg (4409 lb) internally, and 6000 kg (13228 lb) carried on six external hardpoints; primary armaments include the PL-9 short-range missile and SD-10 medium range air to air missile. It has a combat radius of 648 nmi (746 mi; 1,200 km) and a maximum take-off weight of 25,000 kg (55,000 lb).

*Stealth*
The J-31 is speculated to use stealth coatings instead of "baked in" fiber-mat stealth.AVIC claimed the aircraft to be stealthy against L-band and Ku-band radars, and would be low-observable against a number of multi-spectrum sensors.


*Avionics*


Distributed aperture system (DAS) optical early-warning system
Electro-optical targeting system (EOTS)

*General characteristics*


*Crew:* one (pilot)
*Length:* 17.3 m (56 ft 9 in)
*Wingspan:* 11.5 m (37 ft 9 in)
*Height:* 4.8 m (15 ft 9 in)
*Wing area:* 40 m2 (430 sq ft)
*Max takeoff weight:* 28,000 kg (61,729 lb)
*Powerplant:* 2 × RD-93 afterburning turbofans,85 kN (19,000 lbf) thrust each
*Powerplant:* 2 × WS-13 afterburning turbofans (projected upgrade)
*Maximum speed:* 2,200 km/h (1,367 mph; 1,188 kn)
*Maximum speed:* Mach 1.8
*Combat range:* 1,250 km (777 mi; 675 nmi) on internal fuel, or 2,000 kilometres (1,200 mi) with external tanks


*Armament - *


*Hardpoints:* 6 x external, and internal bay with a capacity of Up to 8,000 kilograms (18,000 lb), including including 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb) internally.
*Missiles:*
Air-to-air missiles:
12 x medium-range

Air-to-ground missiles:
8 x supersonic


*Bombs:*
8 × 500 kg deep-penetration bombs
30 x smaller bombs

Armament sounds impressive?
Kira.


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## Arthur

rome333 said:


> Is not SU30 MK2 a dedicated Maritime Strike Fighter with increased payload? If so then are not we suppossed to get SU30 MKK like the Chinese, for our Airforce? Rather than SU30 MK2 for all!


It's MKK for BAF I believe. Mk2 for BN.

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## bdslph

we will be need to choose one mkk or sm or mk2 
j11 and j15 is a local produce of su27 and su33 i dont know if russia will alow sale to 3rd party


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## bdslph

*Xian JH-7 Fighter Bomber Aircraft or FBC 1A, China






http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/xianjh7fighterbomber/


as china gives as to upgrade or put what we want this will become deadly i guess *


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## damiendehorn

Bangladesh has few realistic options:

a) Mig 29 (both new or/and second hand)
b) Mig 35
c) J17
d) J10b (J10a are no longer in production)
e) Su 30
f) LCA
h) J31

Of these the front runners are either the Su30 or Mig29/35 or J10b. J17 has pakistani connection so politically is not an option, the LCA is indian so militarily is not an option....J31 still has at least another 5-10 years to mature even if it reaches the production stage.


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## Avicenna

Most likely BAF is getting used Mig-29.

Maybe used or new Su-30. Or maybe new Mig-35 but after 2020.

I doubt J-10B or FC-1 will be obtained.

Anything else is unrealistic.


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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> china cannot sale equivalent to j11 as it is su series in russia no thirrd party agreement
> future the jc31 j14 j15 kind of plane we can buy
> f7 and mig29 we need to dispose it they are useless what we have
> jf 17 blk3 is out of question as BAL is in power and China will not open FC1 line as Pakistan will lose market
> we have from china the j10 c only option and other FBC1 for bomber
> 
> we can order the su30 series specalized in BD model also the Mig35 OVT
> su 27 is old already mig35 is new plane
> other we have like su 37 35 34 they are expensive for us
> 
> f16 and jas 39 gripen is out of question as string attached


We can get su30 specialized for us with mig 35 in the mix.
Mig 29 should be left out because it's not reasonable to invest in mig 29 program anymore to start up their production line especially for bd.
Su35 is derivative of su30 and can be bought if missile etc selection are standardized throughout the fleet.

Jf-17 is a bad choice for future proofing and adding tooth to our brittle air force no offense Pakistanis.
Also jc31 does have faults like the mig 29 with short range etc etc. unless those are improved to standards of a su 30 which I doubt will happen considering the class of the fighter... we should focus our options on getting a specialized jet for us which will cost less in the long run.



Avicenna said:


> Most likely BAF is getting used Mig-29.
> 
> Maybe used or new Su-30. Or maybe new Mig-35 but after 2020.
> 
> I doubt J-10B or FC-1 will be obtained.
> 
> Anything else is unrealistic.


Trust me used is something the air force despise unlike the navy because ships don't have to fly... airplane do.



Khan saheb said:


> To be honest, I don't understand the hate for the trusted F-7.  It's the best fighter in it's design era & price group.
> At least ours are not flying coffins from the cold war.
> 
> 
> Yes. It also keeps the path open
> for an Al 31FN3 powered J 10 in BAF service.
> 
> 
> Thanks for putting these informations in a nutshell for us in this thread. It's a great thing that BD can work with China in the field of defence & mutual interest.
> 
> View attachment 368091


Best from the era either some serious flaws.
Claimed a lot of young lives that's the hate starter right there


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## rome333

It is unlikely BD govt gonna spend more than $1 billion for a single Air deal. Its more likely to be within $500 million. So keep the price range in mind!
Most likely only 8 fighters we probably gonna have this time.


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## Michael Corleone

rome333 said:


> It is unlikely BD govt gonna spend more than $1 billion for a single Air deal. Its more likely to be within $500 million. So keep the price range in mind!
> Most likely only 8 fighters we probably gonna have this time.


You an get more than 8 with 500mil that's for certain.


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## rome333

Mohammed Khaled said:


> You an get more than 8 with 500mil that's for certain.


I wish you were right. But I still dont see how its gonna play out. We still got half squadron of Mig 29 to deal with and a new squadron to build.


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## Arthur

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Best from the era either some serious flaws.
> Claimed a lot of young lives that's the hate starter right there


While I mourn the losses, I will still say it's still the best fighter considering our doctrine,budget & economic situation.
As a citizen you are entitled to opinion or even hate. But even the brave pilots who fly this machine do love the aircraft. And will fly it again & again to defend their motherland. So I would be very sensible with such strong words as my experience with the pilots taught me that.

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## ~Phoenix~

bdslph said:


> we will be need to choose one mkk or sm or mk2
> j11 and j15 is a local produce of su27 and su33 i dont know if russia will alow sale to 3rd party



Shenyang J-15 is developed from an un-finished Su-33 *prototype* from *Ukarine* ( for the main body design and other stuff ) and Chengdu J-10 ( for the avoinics,engines and internal equipments ).They don't need Russian pemission to export it since the Su-33 prototype was purchased from Ukarine,not Russia.



rome333 said:


> It is unlikely BD govt gonna spend more than $1 billion for a single Air deal. Its more likely to be within $500 million. So keep the price range in mind!
> Most likely only 8 fighters we probably gonna have this time.



With $500 million purchasing-budget,even if a bird costs $30 million a pop,we can still get a squadron of it with $20 million left for missiles and training.

Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> While I mourn the losses, I will still say it's still the best fighter considering our doctrine,budget & economic situation.
> As a citizen you are entitled to opinion or even hate. But even the brave pilots who fly this machine do love the aircraft. And will fly it again & again to defend their motherland. So I would be very sensible with such strong words as my experience with the pilots taught me that.


While considering you should respect the machine you operate... 

I think our economic situation has improved enough to get some good latest fighter jets that will be able to provide us with the deterrence we seek. 
F-7 is just too old... I am not talking about the cockpit characteristics... its performance, is just too obsolete for this day and age. Just about any fighter can squat it down... there's no real deterrence really. 
But it's a good platform to continue our ground attack operations.

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> ships don't have to fly... airplane do.



Airplanes don't have to sail...ships do.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Shenyang J-15 is developed from an un-finished Su-33 *prototype* from *Ukarine* ( for the main body design and other stuff ) and Chengdu J-10 ( for the avoinics,engines and internal equipments ).They don't need Russian pemission to export it since the Su-33 prototype was purchased from Ukarine,not Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> With $500 million purchasing-budget,even if a bird costs $30 million a pop,we can still get a squadron of it with $20 million left for missiles and training.


J-15 is structurally flawed. There is a reason sukhoi Russia has abandoned it and ukraine hasn't employed or mass produced even one for themselves.



~Phoenix~ said:


> Airplanes don't have to sail...ships do.


God dammit you got me there. 
Airplanes end up in sea... ships don't end up in sky

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> While considering you should respect the machine you operate...
> 
> I think our economic situation has improved enough to get some good latest fighter jets that will be able to provide us with the deterrence we seek.
> F-7 is just too old... I am not talking about the cockpit characteristics... its performance, is just too obsolete for this day and age. Just about any fighter can squat it down... there's no real deterrence really.
> But it's a good platform to continue our ground attack operations.



In that case,its most economical to get JF-17/FC-01 which has a similar performance to the Lockheed Martin F-16 since our pilots are trained for the J-7 platform.
The current J-7s are actually great birds for intercepting and operational conversion training as well ground attack roles.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> J-15 is structurally flawed. There is a reason sukhoi Russia has abandoned it and ukraine hasn't employed or mass produced even one for themselves.



J-15 is used by CHINA AND CHINA ONLY! How can Russia and Ukarine mass produce it? The Su-33 is a different bird.The Chinese corrected the design flaws ( using components from J-10 ) and made the bird perfect.Its an all round perfect birdie,but needs a lil more powwaaahhh on its engines.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> God dammit you got me there.
> Airplanes end up in sea... ships don't end up in sky


Ships end up in their OWN territory,not others one like airplanes.


Kira.

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## bd_4_ever

^ What is Kira?

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## ~Phoenix~

bd_4_ever said:


> ^ What is Kira?



TOP SECRET.But I'll let you figure it out on your own.


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## Shorisrip

~Phoenix~ said:


> TOP SECRET.But I'll let you figure it out on your own.


Deathnote eh?

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## Avicenna

I think in terms of the capabilities BAF is seeking:

#1) Air defence of Bangladesh air space.

The first requires a light single engine fighter with BVR capability. Range is not an issue as Bangaldesh is small. FC-1 would be a good fit. Right now we have F-7 of various models. And the 8 Mig-29.

#2) Protection of Exclusive economic zone and support of BN. 

This would likely require a twin engined long ranged aircraft as the EEZ extends out 200km. Perhaps this is the reason BAF is looking at the SU-30.

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## ~Phoenix~

Shorisrip said:


> Deathnote eh?



HHUUUUUUSSHHHHHHH! OR I'LL WRITE YOUR NAME TOO! 



@Avicenna Right now,BAF is seeking medium range Surface-to-Air Missiles ( SAM ),but I saw reports somewhere that BAF purchased LY-80E which would be delivered by the end of '17 and the Ministry of Defence's plans for 2017 included 8 4th generation fighters or multi-role combat aircraft ( MRCA ) as well as a medium range SAM system.




Avicenna said:


> #1) Air defence of Bangladesh air space.
> 
> The first requires a light single engine fighter with BVR capability. Range is not an issue as Bangaldesh is small. FC-1 would be a good fit. Right now we have F-7 of various models. And the 8 Mig-29.








Our F-7 BGIs,as it is designed for the interceptor role,already have BVR capability with their 86+ km range radar.We also purchased some PL-12 BVR air-to-air missiles with them.This bird can also field light anti-ship missiles such as C-704A so they might be used to support the naval fleet as well.




Our MiG-29 SEs also have BVR capability with their Vympel R-27 A2A missiles.



Avicenna said:


> #2) Protection of Exclusive economic zone and support of BN.
> 
> This would likely require a twin engined long ranged aircraft as the EEZ extends out 200km. Perhaps this is the reason BAF is looking at the SU-30.







True.The best variants for that role are the China based one - Su-30 MK2/MKKs which sacrifices the Su-30 MKI's thrust vectoring and canards for increased payload and longer range...as well as capability to field a wide range of cruise missiles,as well as being superior to the Boeing F-15E,SE,SA as well as the Saab JAS-39 Gripen-NG in air to air combat.





Kira.

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## bdslph

~Phoenix~ said:


> Shenyang J-15 is developed from an un-finished Su-33 *prototype* from *Ukarine* ( for the main body design and other stuff ) and Chengdu J-10 ( for the avoinics,engines and internal equipments ).They don't need Russian pemission to export it since the Su-33 prototype was purchased from Ukarine,not Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> With $500 million purchasing-budget,even if a bird costs $30 million a pop,we can still get a squadron of it with $20 million left for missiles and training.
> 
> Kira.



if the j15 can be sold then that will be good bd can try to go for it in future and the j10
if all ok in j15 it will become a good export aircraft for china also 
yes it has flaws fix this and that thats is normal for any new place f35 still has problems so i am sure china will fix them in j15 but j10 all will need mostly upgrade one . though i am not sure abt the engine i know its russian and there chinese engine having flaws still not fix



Avicenna said:


> I think in terms of the capabilities BAF is seeking:
> 
> #1) Air defence of Bangladesh air space.
> 
> The first requires a light single engine fighter with BVR capability. Range is not an issue as Bangaldesh is small. FC-1 would be a good fit. Right now we have F-7 of various models. And the 8 Mig-29.
> 
> #2) Protection of Exclusive economic zone and support of BN.
> 
> This would likely require a twin engined long ranged aircraft as the EEZ extends out 200km. Perhaps this is the reason BAF is looking at the SU-30.



no one is producing fc1

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## bdslph

TopCat said:


> No flanker variant can be sold by China.
> JF-17 is not agile enough.
> J-10 is the only aircraft can be sourced from China and meet requirement.



soneone said su33 prototype was from ukraine not from russia so i am not sure 

for sure the j10c will be in BAF oneday and thats the only real choice we have as side from when they start sale stealth fighter

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## TopCat

bdslph said:


> soneone said su33 prototype was from ukraine not from russia so i am not sure
> 
> for sure the j10c will be in BAF oneday and thats the only real choice we have as side from when they start sale stealth fighter



These are all flanker variant and China had a long term stake with the Russians. 
And I dont think Ukraine gave China the permission to copy and export either.


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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> These are all flanker variant and China had a long term stake with the Russians.
> And I dont think Ukraine gave China the permission to copy and export either.


China can export J15 to BD cause Ukraine provided us the prototype TK10. This has nothing to do with Russia. They refused to sell China Su33 so we get it done by ourself.

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## Bilal9

wanglaokan said:


> China can export J15 to BD cause Ukraine provided us the prototype TK10. This has nothing to do with Russia. They refused to sell China Su33 so we get it done by ourself.



I think those are J-10's in the picture above.....

Agreed about the J-15's.






In all the discussion about the Naval air-superiority platform, we forgot about transport birds, which is a crying need right now.

New Zealand is getting rid of their six C-130H in 2020, we should put in some feeler of interest to the NZ govt. These would make great platforms after some refurbishment.

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## 帅的一匹

Bilal9 said:


> I think those are J-10's in the picture above.....
> 
> Agreed about the J-15's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In all the discussion about the Naval air-superiority platform, we forgot about transport birds, which is a crying need right now.
> 
> New Zealand is getting rid of their six C-130H in 2020, we should put in some feeler of interest to the NZ govt. These would make great platforms after some refurbishment.


Bro, I know it's J10b. I just simply love this beautiful fighter so I just post it.

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## Bilal9

wanglaokan said:


> Bro, I know it's J10b. I just simply love this beautiful fighter so I just post it.



Understood.

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## 帅的一匹

Bilal9 said:


> Understood.


Just have look at the left one J10b, with KG600 ECM Pod installed under flank of its DSI intake, same way if that's installed on F16. I can tell you that PLAAF is a big fan of USAAF in weapon design.

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## Bilal9

wanglaokan said:


> Just have look at the left one J10b, with KG600 ECM Pod installed under flank of its DSI intake, same way if that's installed on F16. I can tell you that PLAAF is a big fan of USAAF in weapon design.



It sure is. Actually what I've read is that the KG600 ECM Pod is being used by the *J-16D which is a PLAAF equivalent of the USAF EA-18G Growler*. The J-16D is going to be PLAAF's primary ELINT/SIGINT platform. Here's a write-up I found.

*Background:*
On the 19th December 2015, Chinese military watching forums began to circulate with rumours that an electronic warfare variant of the J-16 multirole strike aircraft had conducted its maiden flight, and barely a few days later on the 21st of December, photos emerged which definitively proved the veracity of the claims.
The new aircraft was thus tentatively christened “J-16D,” where “D” likely stood for *dian*, which is likely in turn short for *dianzi zhan* – Chinese for “electronic warfare” (EW).

*J-16D modifications:*
Current pictures of the J-16D indicate that it fields several meaningful modifications compared to the standard J-16. These include:
-Wingtip pods on J-16D seemingly as part of standard loadout configuration.
-Removal of internal gun on J-16D, from J-16.
-Removal of nose mounted IRST on J-16D, from J-16.
-A modified nose and slightly smaller radome on J-16D, possibly indicative of a different AESA radar compared to J-16. Such a radar may potentially have a more EW oriented role compared to the standard J-16’s.
-Various antennae and dielectric grey fairings have been added around the airframe of the aircraft, including the dorsal side of the aircraft, the side of the aircraft’s nose, and the sides of the aircraft’s intakes.

The conversion of J-16 to J-16D is very similar in concept to that of the conversion of F/A-18F to EA-18G, as both the J-16 and F/A-18F were supersonic, maneuverable, multi-role strike fighters capable of air to ground and air to air missions, and both aircraft had similar equipment removed as well as potentially added. Specifically, the EA-18G features various additional antennae to the air-frame, and is equipped with wingtip pods as standard, and is not equipped with an internal gun.




Infographic displaying various mission relevant subsystems of EA-18G
*Avionics suite:*
As a dedicated EW aircraft, the J-16D’s EW suite will likely include a passive ESM suite as well as an active, offensive ECM jamming suite, as well as various datalinks to communicate with friendly aircraft, ships and other assets to effectively conduct its mission in an integrated way.

The J-16D’s ESM suite may include an equivalent to the EA-18G’s ALQ-218 ESM system, which provides ELINT/SIGINT capabilities to detect, identify, track, locate/geolocate, and analyze emitted radio frequency sources, which can in turn help to cue and conduct electronic attacks or physical attacks against opposing air defences. On the EA-18G, the most distinctive evidence of the ALQ-218 are two wingtip pods. The ALQ-218 pods tend to be fit aboard EA-18Gs as standard configuration, and appeared to be present aboard the maiden flight the EA-18G for both the US Navy and Royal Australian Air Force. J-16D’s wingtip pods have also been speculated to have ESM roles similar to the ALQ-218, and were present aboard the J-16D’s maiden flight as well.




ALQ-218 wingtip ESM pod on EA-18G



Detail of J-16D wingtip pod, suspected to have ESM functions



A different view of J-16D on the runway, showcasing a set of four upwards facing antennae on the J-16D’s wingtip pods
The J-16D’s active offensive ECM suite will likely include a number of externally mounted ECM jamming pods. It is unknown what type of ECM pod the J-16D will mount, it may include a variant of the pods seen mounted before on JH-7/As, or it may include an entirely new type of pod such as one utilizing AESA technology like the NGJ pod being developed by the US Navy. Given the variety of AESA radars that are in service with the Chinese military across a number of platforms, it would not be out of the question for the technology to be applied for jamming purposes. Indeed, it has been speculated that the Y-9G and possibly even Y-8G standoff ECM aircraft may make use of AESA technology in their speculated side mounted jamming antennae. But considering all this, it will likely still require a number of months if not potentially years for pictures of J-16D with jamming pods to emerge in the public sphere, given Chinese military operational security.




Another view of JH-7/A’s ECM pods
J-16D will also likely be equipped with various datalinks, and may include the supposed Link 16 equivalent called JSIDLS (Joint Service Integrated Data Link system), and other datalinks designed for network centric communications and warfighting.

Various other EW mission specific counter measures and avionics may also be installed, as well as the possibility of a cockpit optimized to perform EW tasks.

*Weapons suite:*
The J-16D will likely be compatible with many weapons that the standard J-16 is confirmed or expected to field, including short range air to air missiles (such as the ImIR guided PL-10), medium range air to air missiles (such as the active radar guided PL-12 and its variants), as well as air to ground weapons including the standoff range KD-88 missile and direct attack precision guided munitions.

But as an EW/SEAD/DEAD aircraft, the J-16D will likely also carry anti radiation missiles (ARMs), which home in on and destroy sources of radio frequencies (usually radar). J-16D will likely make use of the YJ-91 and its variants, which is a domestically produced version of the Russian Kh-31 ARM. A number of other ARMs offered for export in recent years such as the CM-102 and LD-10 may also potentially find a place on the wing of J-16D, or a completely new ARM could be developed for J-16D.




JH-7A armed with YJ-91, the domestically produced version of the Russian Kh-31 ARM
It is important to note that a standard J-16D outfitted with an EW suite may have fewer available hardpoint stations for mounting weapons. A standard J-16 features twelve hardpoints: two wingtip, six underwing, two under air intakes and two centreline. However a J-16D with a standard EW configuration may include two wingtip ESM pods and three ECM pods, and assuming one of the three ECM pods are mounted centreline, then only six hardpoints will remain for other weapons and/or systems – interestingly enough that is the same number of hardpoints available to an EA-18G for a similar EW pod loadout.

*Role in Chinese military aviation:*
Overall, the conversion of J-16 to J-16D can be seen as logical and sensible, given the likely requirements of Chinese military aviation as well as the availability of the J-16 as a platform with potential for modification.

As a derivative of the Flanker family, the J-16 inherited many of the positive characteristics of the original Su-27 and the Su-30MKK it was then based on, including large internal fuel capacity, large external payload, large nose radome, as well as the Flanker family’s impressive aerodynamic and kinematic performance inherent to its airframe design (with adequately powerplants).

For those reasons, the twin seater, multirole strike capable J-16 was probably thus the optimal platform accessible by the Chinese military, to convert to an EW/SEAD/DEAD aircraft. The J-16D would be capable of performing not only the traditional EW/SEAD/DEAD missions required by an aircraft, but it would also have the speed to keep up with formations of strike aircraft to serve as an escort jammer during all phases of a strike mission, and its manoeuvrability would give it a greater chance of surviving encounters with opposing fighter aircraft if such situations arose, thus increasing the survivability of the aircraft overall. The J-16 platform would also have sufficient payload to conduct comprehensive EW/SEAD/DEAD missions independently if needed, at relatively long ranges or long endurances.




The J-16 offered an outstanding base platform for the development of a high capability, survivable EW/SEAD/DEAD aircraft
The closest international peer to the J-16D in terms of configuration and expected role, is thus unsurprisingly, the US EA-18G Growler. Similar to EA-18G, one challenge for the J-16D may be the need fulfil the demands of AEA and SEAD/DEAD in an aircrew of only two, however advances in automation technology may make such limitations less of an impediment for effective operations.




EA-18G, unequivocally the closest international analogue to the J-16D
It is important to note that the J-16D is very much a land based aircraft and not a carrier-borne naval aircraft, but there has been substantial speculation and expectation that Chinese Naval Aviation would likely leverage many EW technologies and subsystems aboard J-16D and integrate them into a variant of the J-15S, the twin seater variant of the J-15. Indeed, in recent years evidence has emerged suggesting studies have been conducted, looking into the prospect of an EW variant. The common airframe and potential for many common subsystems would make conversion of the J-15S to a potential “J-15SD” variant quite conceivable if not sensible, and it would not be surprising to see the emergence of a J-15S variant fielding many J-16D characteristics and subsystems within the next few years.
An EW variant of the carrierborne J-15 has been studied (seen here, a RCS simulation test), and any EW variant of the J-15 would likely use the twin seat J-15S variant and leverage many subsystems that were developed and installed aboard J-16D
*Conclusion:*
The J-16D will likely provide the Chinese military with a very capable and multirole EW/SEAD/DEAD capability once it enters service in meaningful numbers. It is difficult to project how many aircraft will be bought, and also impossible to predict whether only the Air Force will purchase the aircraft or if Naval Aviation will purchase it as well (for its land based operations).
The J-16D may also provide the basis for an expected conversion of the J-15S twin seat multirole fighter to a similar EW/SEAD/DEAD aircraft, which could share many characteristics and subsystems to the J-16D.

All in all, the J-16D is further evidence of the Chinese military’s already impressive investment into network centric, informationized warfare, and their investment into ECM/jamming and ELINT/SIGINT in particular.

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## 帅的一匹

If J16D is put on shelf, many countries will induct it.

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## bdslph

wanglaokan said:


> If J16D is put on shelf, many countries will induct it.



mr china bro  hehe

j15 and j16 will it be sale able to other countries for sure

i know j10 B C is being bought by pakistan and bd in future

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## Bilal9

bdslph said:


> mr china men  hehe
> 
> j15 and j16 will it be sale able to other countries for sure
> 
> i know j10 B C is being bought by pakistan and bd in future



Bhai @bdslph - it is considered somewhat rude to address someone from China as 'China Man'.

If you don't mind - just use 'brother' from now on.......


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## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> Bhai @bdslph - it is considered somewhat rude to address someone from China as 'China Man'.
> 
> If you don't mind - just use 'brother' from now on.......



ohh that i didnot know  thanks for the correction

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## TopCat

bdslph said:


> mr china bro  hehe
> 
> j15 and j16 will it be sale able to other countries for sure
> 
> i know j10 B C is being bought by pakistan and bd in future



Pakistan will keep on trying and buying F-16 from USA with discounted price. We wont see J-10 in PK arsenal anytime soon.


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## rome333

Any latest news on our half squadron Mig 29s upgration program?


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> HHUUUUUUSSHHHHHHH! OR I'LL WRITE YOUR NAME TOO!
> 
> 
> 
> @Avicenna Right now,BAF is seeking medium range Surface-to-Air Missiles ( SAM ),but I saw reports somewhere that BAF purchased LY-80E which would be delivered by the end of '17 and the Ministry of Defence's plans for 2017 included 8 4th generation fighters or multi-role combat aircraft ( MRCA ) as well as a medium range SAM system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 368708
> 
> Our F-7 BGIs,as it is designed for the interceptor role,already have BVR capability with their 86+ km range radar.We also purchased some PL-12 BVR air-to-air missiles with them.This bird can also field light anti-ship missiles such as C-704A so they might be used to support the naval fleet as well.
> View attachment 368716
> 
> Our MiG-29 SEs also have BVR capability with their Vympel R-27 A2A missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 368724
> 
> True.The best variants for that role are the China based one - Su-30 MK2/MKKs which sacrifices the Su-30 MKI's thrust vectoring and canards for increased payload and longer range...as well as capability to field a wide range of cruise missiles,as well as being superior to the Boeing F-15E,SE,SA as well as the Saab JAS-39 Gripen-NG in air to air combat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


also in the sacrifrice list are a better radar!
the cunard versions have better radar but decreased payload.


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## masud



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## Michael Corleone

as of now... all of our mig 29s are in bangladesh. youre welcome!


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> as of now... all of our mig 29s are in bangladesh. youre welcome!



That image is from 2016.I think only 4 are in BD,the rest is in Russia for what-you-know.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> That image is from 2016.I think only 4 are in BD,the rest is in Russia for what-you-know.


there were 4 in bd in 2015... those 6 has been overhauled from ukraine back then... i dont know much of 2016 tbh.
btw my dorm is right next to MIG design bureau office in ukraine.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> there were 4 in bd in 2015... those 6 has been overhauled from ukraine back then... i dont know much of 2016 tbh.
> btw my dorm is right next to MIG design bureau office in ukraine.



JUST RUSH TO THAT OFFICE AND STEAL THE MiG TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> JUST RUSH TO THAT OFFICE AND STEAL THE MiG TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!


want me to get beaten by otherwise lovely people here?


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## TopCat

~Phoenix~ said:


> JUST RUSH TO THAT OFFICE AND STEAL THE MiG TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!


You can get full autocad design from toys compnies. Even F-22


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> want me to get beaten by otherwise lovely people here?



Don't you have a gun or two?


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## masud



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## ~Phoenix~



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## Michael Corleone

our f-7s ... the BGI that's supposed to be more maneuverable is 18 degrees turn rate... makes me wonder how much for the older ones? 16? man these can be squatted out like mosquitos out the sky... suitable if only used for ground attack but dogfight? i am sorry... theyre just obsolete. atleast WVR they're.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> our f-7s ... the BGI that's supposed to be more maneuverable is 18 degrees turn rate... makes me wonder how much for the older ones? 16? man these can be squatted out like mosquitos out the sky... suitable if only used for ground attack but dogfight? i am sorry... theyre just obsolete. atleast WVR they're.



F-7s,like the MiG-31 & J-8 and other similar birdies,are mainly for interceptor and light fighter,but the F-7s can be also used for ground attacking roles too.The BGIs can even fire C-704 missiles.

Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> F-7s,like the MiG-31 & J-8 and other similar birdies,are mainly for interceptor and light fighter,but the F-7s can be also used for ground attacking roles too.The BGIs can even fire C-704 missiles.
> 
> Kira.


bangladesh's ones are in fighter or ground attack sqd?


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> bangladesh's ones are in fighter or ground attack sqd?



Mainly for frontline fighter role,but its also used for ground attack role ( Yak-130 is the main ground-attack bird though ) as well as interceptor role ( especially the F-7 BGs based at Foward Air Base,Cox's Bazar )

Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Mainly for frontline fighter role,but its also used for ground attack role ( Yak-130 is the main ground-attack bird though ) as well as interceptor role ( especially the F-7 BGs based at Foward Air Base,Cox's Bazar )
> 
> Kira.


all they say is it's (yak-130) is used for advanced training role...

f-7s for ground attack is okay but frontline fighter role is like asking enemy to kill the few fighter pilots we make after strict and harsh training...


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## Gandh brandi

Mohammed Khaled said:


> all they say is it's (yak-130) is used for advanced training role...
> 
> f-7s for ground attack is okay but frontline fighter role is like asking enemy to kill the few fighter pilots we make after strict and harsh training...



Yaks are advanced enough to fit the ground-attack role. Hell, any plane can be turned into A2G. Some in USAF is thinking of reinstating turboprops like Super Tucano after they retire A-10 warthog.


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## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> Yaks are advanced enough to fit the ground-attack role. Hell, any plane can be turned into A2G. Some in USAF is thinking of reinstating turboprops like Super Tucano after they retire A-10 warthog.


well yeah ofc... primary purpose in our airforce is to train though...

man should've kept those a-10 on service maybe upgrade them with latest tech and open production line... those are the cheapest to maintain in USAF at the moment.


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## Gandh brandi

Mohammed Khaled said:


> well yeah ofc... primary purpose in our airforce is to train though...



Main purpose fulfills if we buy potent 4++ gen crafts. But if not, they can also work as a stop-gap workaround.



> man should've kept those a-10 on service maybe upgrade them with latest tech and open production line... those are the cheapest to maintain in USAF at the moment.



Inter-service rivalry I guess. Army insists theybare perfect for A2G and CAS. But AF doesn't wanna do A2G work anymore.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

2017-2020 phase BAF need 36 Fighter crafts 4.5 generation.


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## Michael Corleone

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> 2017-2020 phase BAF need 36 Fighter crafts 4.5 generation.


if you're the defence, finance miniters... pls sign for the purchase asap


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> all they say is it's (yak-130) is used for advanced training role...
> 
> f-7s for ground attack is okay but frontline fighter role is like asking enemy to kill the few fighter pilots we make after strict and harsh training...









Wrong,Yak-130 can field a wide range of lethal A2G weaponry including some of the Kh series missiles ( eg Kh-25 ).And it has a high number of 9 hardpoints ( the largest number in BAF ) to carry a dedicated air to ground combat role.It can field Chinese,Russian,European and US weapons at the same time.Russia even wanted to replace its Su-25s with Yak-131,an upgraded version of Yak-130.


Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 371815
> 
> Wrong,Yak-130 can field a wide range of lethal A2G weaponry including some of the Kh series missiles ( eg Kh-25 ).And it has a high number of 9 hardpoints ( the largest number in BAF ) to carry a dedicated air to ground combat role.It can field Chinese,Russian,European and US weapons at the same time.Russia even wanted to replace its Su-25s with Yak-131,an upgraded version of Yak-130.
> 
> 
> Kira.


bruh i know it can be used for ground roles... i don;t think they use it for that though... for training role as they keeps on mentioning in the parade

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> bruh i know it can be used for ground roles... i don;t think they use it for that though... for training role as they keeps on mentioning in the parade



As if A-10s to the ground attack role for BAF...

Kira.


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## syed1



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## ~Phoenix~

BAF F-7 BGIs in China.

Originally posted : http://www.militaryimages.net/threads/bangladesh-armed-forces.6165/

Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> BAF F-7 BGIs in China.
> 
> Originally posted : http://www.militaryimages.net/threads/bangladesh-armed-forces.6165/
> 
> Kira.


man bangladesh's sky is just so heavenly <3

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## Shorisrip

Mohammed Khaled said:


> man bangladesh's sky is just so heavenly <3


That's China

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## Michael Corleone

Shorisrip said:


> That's China


if that's chinese sky it reminded me of bangladesh's they're equally beautiful then.... ukraine is foggy af most of the time!

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> man bangladesh's sky is just so heavenly <3




This one is Bangladeshi.





© Shamim Shorif

Moonsoon clouds over Bandarban Hill Tracts,Bangladesh during Moonsoon season.Also,this image is taken from a BAF bird by Shamim Shorif Susom,who became famous for some beautiful aerial shots.


Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> This one is Bangladeshi.
> View attachment 372631
> 
> © Shamim Shorif
> 
> Moonsoon clouds over Bandarban Hill Tracts,Bangladesh during Moonsoon season.Also,this image is taken from a BAF bird by Shamim Shorif Susom,who became famous for some beautiful aerial shots.
> 
> 
> Kira.


beautiful!

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## bdslph

The russia has present the mig35 
Mass production is on 2019 though

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## TopCat

bdslph said:


> The russia has present the mig35
> Mass production is on 2019 though




That means Mig-35 is not getting order till 2019.. too bad.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> That means Mig-35 is not getting order till 2019.. too bad.


test phase atm... egypt wants to get in bulk but has to wait

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## bdslph

egypt wants 50 babies of this mig35 ovt 
and russia will have a lot of this to replace the mig29 
mig35 has a lot of potentials 
even the mig35 are again in the contenders in the india airforce program 

bd can get at least 2 squad of this babies

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## TopCat

bdslph said:


> egypt wants 50 babies of this mig35 ovt
> and russia will have a lot of this to replace the mig29
> mig35 has a lot of potentials
> even the mig35 are again in the contenders in the india airforce program
> 
> bd can get at least 2 squad of this babies


Bangladesh should focus more in sukui program. Migs series, all of them went to gutter. Soviet era su-25 flying like hell till today.

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## bdslph

Watch the mig 35 video 

Is Bangladesh is interested in it as they r saying

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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> egypt wants 50 babies of this mig35 ovt
> and russia will have a lot of this to replace the mig29
> mig35 has a lot of potentials
> even the mig35 are again in the contenders in the india airforce program
> 
> bd can get at least 2 squad of this babies


for cheap too....



TopCat said:


> Bangladesh should focus more in sukui program. Migs series, all of them went to gutter. Soviet era su-25 flying like hell till today.


mig 35 is the answer to your concerns... it is cheaper and easier to maintain... and reliable like the sukhois...underneath its completely different



bdslph said:


> Watch the mig 35 video
> 
> Is Bangladesh is interested in it as they r saying


that guy is bengali at 1:59...
and from what this guy says... i am certain we are interested to get huge numbers of these...
oh this guys name is "saiful hauq"- ambassador bangladesh to russian federation... in the banner box
!!!!


yay i can read and write and translate russian... woo hoooo !

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## Gandh brandi

Mohammed Khaled said:


> for cheap too....
> 
> 
> mig 35 is the answer to your concerns... it is cheaper and easier to maintain... and reliable like the sukhois...underneath its completely different
> 
> 
> that guy is bengali at 1:59...
> and from what this guy says... i am certain we are interested to get huge numbers of these...
> oh this guys name is "saiful hauq"- ambassador bangladesh to russian federation... in the banner box
> !!!!
> 
> 
> yay i can read and write and translate russian... woo hoooo !


Well, you are in Ukraine  I can just read the letters. Мохаммед Кхалед ис юур наме, исн'т ит?

BTW how prevalent is Slav Squat in Ukraine? And Adidas tracksuits?

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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> yay i can read and write and translate russian... woo hoooo !



Whats the medium of communication there? Ukrainian or Russian?

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## bdslph

Mohammed Khaled said:


> for cheap too....
> 
> 
> mig 35 is the answer to your concerns... it is cheaper and easier to maintain... and reliable like the sukhois...underneath its completely different
> 
> 
> that guy is bengali at 1:59...
> and from what this guy says... i am certain we are interested to get huge numbers of these...
> oh this guys name is "saiful hauq"- ambassador bangladesh to russian federation... in the banner box
> !!!!
> 
> 
> yay i can read and write and translate russian... woo hoooo !




no offense to you bro ... 
its translated the u tube 
he said it is multi function we need this kind of ac compare to western it is affordable to us that all he said
i could be wrong anyways that will be great if we can have this


but one more thing can anyone confirm the mig35 has the TVC engine because in the original ones they had


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## Gandh brandi

TopCat said:


> Whats the medium of communication there? Ukrainian or Russian?


It's almost like BD-India there from what I heard. Older gen. know and speak both. Newer gen. know too but don't wanna speak lest it hurt their patriotic cause. Not to mention ethnic Rudsians who speak Russian in their homes too.


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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> no offense to you bro ...
> its translated the u tube
> he said it is multi function we need this kind of ac compare to western it is affordable to us that all he said
> i could be wrong anyways that will be great if we can have this
> 
> 
> but one more thing can anyone confirm the mig35 has the TVC engine because in the original ones they had


was his name and other description in substitile too'? i didn;t nothice that i guess then... 

well i can confirm the engines are the 3rd revision of the now improved... smokeless RD-33 that the mig 29 is equipped with... but this delivers more thrust and fuel efficiency than before!



TopCat said:


> Whats the medium of communication there? Ukrainian or Russian?


western part of the country speaks ukrainian for the most part... eastern part speaks russian... but both are spoken and understood....
i believe ukrainian is spoken more strictly in the west after the conflicts... but man these people are amazing.... extremely friendly... anyone gets along very well!



Sybaris Caeser said:


> Well, you are in Ukraine  I can just read the letters. Мохаммед Кхалед ис юур наме, исн'т ит?
> 
> BTW how prevalent is Slav Squat in Ukraine? And Adidas tracksuits?


woah woah !! gooood ! xD
вы говорит по русскии?
да ето мое завут!!!

well all branded sportwear things is available... people who can afford new buys em... people who can afford old buys em... people who can;t afford doesn't!

lovely people and lovely country... their country, culture, traditional clothes is a lot like bangladesh's... you feel like you're in aarong when you go to a ukrainian market.

tbh... the bitter cold of this country doen't allow you to run outdoors... summer though it's different.
yesterday i had a good night sleep after long time... 3 months and i can speak better russian then french that i took 10 years to learn.


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## bdslph

Mohammed Khaled said:


> was his name and other description in substitile too'? i didn;t nothice that i guess then...
> 
> well i can confirm the engines are the 3rd revision of the now improved... smokeless RD-33 that the mig 29 is equipped with... but this delivers more thrust and fuel efficiency than before!
> 
> 
> 
> .








that the mig35 ovt / tvc 3d thrust vector engine originally was suppose to have that a old video

but i watched the latest mig35 video its still has smoke its less but you can see it in video


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## TopCat

Buying Migs are stupid proposition.


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## bdslph

There is no doubt that Moscow and UAC have the developing world in mind, and to their credit, the prospect of an* AESA radar-equipped multi-role medium-weight fighter for USD $50 million or so per unit with the logistics and maintenance package is attractive. *In fact, the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) are apparently committing to replace their ageing MiG-29s with the MiG-35, giving the platform a domestic anchor base to build scale and help with affordability.

In his statement for the event, President Vladimir Putin noted that officials from more than 30 countries were present at the MiG-35’s launch. Besides the leading candidates, such as India or the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) clients, officials from states with emergent forces, such as *Bangladesh and Peru, were also present at the MiG-35 launch event. A Bangladeshi official told Russian media that the MiG-35 was among the platforms the Bangladesh Air Force would evaluate as part of its modernization plans.*


http://quwa.org/2017/01/31/discussion-look-russias-mig-35-pitch/


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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> that the mig35 ovt / tvc 3d thrust vector engine originally was suppose to have that a old video
> 
> but i watched the latest mig35 video its still has smoke its less but you can see it in video


That's because of the weather. Fuel burns less efficiently in Russia's terrible winter. 
But they are smokeless now. Have you seen eurofighter in NATO excercises in Poland. Even that planes fuels burnt with a yellow tint over there in winter.



TopCat said:


> Buying Migs are stupid proposition.


True. I don't support it. But hey better this then f-7s again... xD 
I know the production stopped.


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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> True. I don't support it. But hey better this then f-7s again... xD
> I know the production stopped.


F-7 is a great plane for 15 million dollar a piece. Bang for the money.
I will certainly take Mig-29 if they sell for 15 million for sure.

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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> F-7 is a great plane for 15 million dollar a piece. Bang for the money.
> I will certainly take Mig-29 if they sell for 15 million for sure.



Well 15 million might be a bit of a stretch. Russian weapons including MiG-29's are no longer cheap. Modernized yes (with glass cockpits and possibly AESA radar) - but not cheap anymore.

I'd guess that BAF considers BVR missiles as a requirement now, then that means also BVR-capable radar (possibly AESA).

Even JF-17 Block 1 can carry SD-10 BVR missile.

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## ~Phoenix~

@TopCat Mikoyan MiG-35 costs around 50 million a pop,but will even take down a F-35 or a JAS-39.No matter how much you hate the Fulcrum platform,this MiG-35 is a super reliable,cheap and moreover,effective bird.With mordernization,it has become a killer in aerial battlefield.
It got RD-33MK thrust vectoring engines,a uniquely designed NII PP OLS-UEM optical locator system ( OLS ) which relives it of ground control interception ( GCI ),Phazotron Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array ( AESA ) radar which has a range of 160 km (86 nmi) for air targets and 300 km (160 nmi) for ships.
Guess what? This sexy bird boasts 9 hard points carrying a max 7000 KG of lethal air to air and air to ground weaponry.Its air to ground/ship inventory consists of : AS-17 Krypton ( 4 Kh-31A,Kh-31P ) and AS-14 ( 4 Kh-29T,Kh-29L )
Egypt got 50 of them with high presicion targeting pods at less than 2 billion USD,so why can't we buy it?










Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> F-7 is a great plane for 15 million dollar a piece. Bang for the money.
> I will certainly take Mig-29 if they sell for 15 million for sure.


not worth it anymore... with the lower service life of the airframe... harder maintenance... and legacy avionics that our UB and SEs have... nah... 15 mil for a SMT or OVT makes sense!


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## Tehari_Haleem

TopCat said:


> Buying Migs are stupid proposition.



You just insured that BAF will deffo buy the Migs than...

For the Govt and BAF higher up's, 'Stop-Gap' will never ever stop

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## Gandh brandi

Uh oh... https://defence.pk/threads/myanmar-...kistan-to-licence-build-jf-17-fighter.475643/


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## Tehari_Haleem

Sybaris Caeser said:


> Uh oh... https://defence.pk/threads/myanmar-...kistan-to-licence-build-jf-17-fighter.475643/



Yah Dude, We'll be license producing the J-31 before this happens

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## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> Uh oh... https://defence.pk/threads/myanmar-...kistan-to-licence-build-jf-17-fighter.475643/


not new


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> not worth it anymore... with the lower service life of the airframe... harder maintenance... and legacy avionics that our UB and SEs have... nah... 15 mil for a SMT or OVT makes sense!



A pilot's skill is what matters the most.



Sybaris Caeser said:


> Uh oh...



Don't make sounds like that,dude -.-



Sybaris Caeser said:


> https://defence.pk/threads/myanmar-...kistan-to-licence-build-jf-17-fighter.475643/



Myanmar testing their made jets.







Tehari_Haleem said:


> Yah Dude, We'll be license producing the J-31 before this happens



No,we'll make things like Zumwalt class by the time they do it.




Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> A pilot's skill is what matters the most.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't make sounds like that,dude -.-
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar testing their made jets.
> View attachment 373736
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No,we'll make things like Zumwalt class by the time they do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


dare you to put pilots in flying coffins and say the same thing! our last accident... the pilot was not even found... >:/


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## Cyberian

As soon as Myanmar starts licence production of the JF-17 Thunders, Bangladesh can always approach India for the licence production of their LCA Flying Rickshaws. Alternatively, with a little increase in the defence budget Bangladesh can acquire the J-10 from China off the shelf or licence produced in Bangladesh..

Anyway, I don't think Bangladesh has anything to be worried about the Myanmarese acquisition of the Sino-Pak fighter.


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## Aung Zaya

~Phoenix~ said:


> Myanmar testing their made jets.


nope.
this is Myanmar AF is assembling and testing their jet..








and this is BD is testing their jet... but dont forget to bring ur own controller to test it..

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## ghost250

Aung Zaya said:


> nope.
> this is Myanmar AF is assembling and testing their jet..
> View attachment 373780
> 
> View attachment 373781
> 
> and this is BD is testing their jet... but dont forget to bring ur own controller to test it..
> View attachment 373782


a fully self made tiny uav is far better than assembling something..


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## Nilgiri

shourov323 said:


> a fully self made tiny uav is far better than assembling something..



The UAV is an assembly job. BD does not make any critical components (esp electronics) from scratch.

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## Aung Zaya

shourov323 said:


> a fully self made tiny uav is far better than assembling something..


 
are u sure all the ingredient in that tiny UAV is completely BD made..? lol and u should know we're assembling REAL jet. not a toy like BD BAAZ what u can buy somewhere else with few money... even buying Chinese small drone would be cheaper and better..

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## Aung Zaya

Nilgiri said:


> The UAV is an assembly job. BD does not make any critical components (esp electronics) from scratch.


I even think it was brought from China and made some sticker on it.. Something like BAAZ.. And they're still talking about making own fighter jet prototype in 2021 in their BAC.. 

Seem our UAV which was made in a decade ago have better looking than BAAZ

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## Nilgiri

Aung Zaya said:


> I even think it was brought from China and made some sticker on it.. Something like BAAZ.. And they're still talking about making own fighter jet prototype in 2021 in their BAC..
> 
> Seem our UAV which was made in a decade ago have better looking than BAAZ
> View attachment 373794



I am just describing best case situation for them lol.

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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> nope.
> this is Myanmar AF is assembling and testing their jet..
> View attachment 373780
> 
> View attachment 373781
> 
> and this is BD is testing their jet... but dont forget to bring ur own controller to test it..
> View attachment 373782


First off it's not a jet. Second all the UAV projects from 2008 actually has been done by Buet students the govt has recently hired some into the aeronautical center. Most of the dev is kept secret. And since irkut is a partner and help us produce avionics... which hasn't been advertised much I wouldn't be surprised.... plus those looks like l-104 I believe from checz republic... maybe you're license producing them? 

Our first jet prototype flies at 2021

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## ghost250

Aung Zaya said:


> I even think it was brought from China and made some sticker on it.. Something like BAAZ.. And they're still talking about making own fighter jet prototype in 2021 in their BAC..
> 
> Seem our UAV which was made in a decade ago have better looking than BAAZ
> View attachment 373794


yes,um sure that all the components r made in bangladesh..tnq..nd yes,our first jet prototype will fly at 2021..


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## Aung Zaya

Mohammed Khaled said:


> First off it's not a jet. Second all the UAV projects from 2008 actually has been done by Buet students the govt has recently hired some into the aeronautical center. Most of the dev is kept secret. And since irkut is a partner and help us produce avionics... which hasn't been advertised much I wouldn't be surprised.... plus those looks like l-104 I believe from checz republic... maybe you're license producing them?
> 
> Our first jet prototype flies at 2021


first. yes. i know.
and it's K-8W from China. not licensed production. but air-frame and some parts are made in local factory.. we're assembling them 7 years ago..

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> first. yes. i know.
> and it's K-8W from China. not licensed production. but air-frame and some parts are made in local factory.. we're assembling them 7 years ago..



60 billion dollar economy trying to make jets. Either your are stupid or Kim Jon Un.. ohh well you have no shortage of Thein Sein either. LOL


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## Aung Zaya

shourov323 said:


> yes,um sure that all the components r made in bangladesh..tnq..nd yes,our first jet prototype will fly at 2021..


lol  so what type of engine do u choose for ur jet..?  where is concept design..? who will be main supplier for avionic and electric..?



TopCat said:


> 60 billion dollar economy trying to make jets. Either your are stupid or Kim Jon Un.. ohh well you have no shortage of Thein Sein either. LOL


lol it will help a lot for our Aerospace industry.. and it will help to save extra cost for our air-force and reduce on relying the others..  u can laugh as u like. coz this is the only thing u can do.. lol


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## Arthur

Stop this fighting guys.

@waz @WAJsal bhai please take care.

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## bdslph

off topics already no need to bring burma here 
if burma want to make produce locally then we need to buy more fighter and the advance ones

dont compare with f7 with mig29 u want mig29 for 15 mil yes u can get for 12 mill even but those are flying coffin 

we need a lot of aircraft but we have limit number of choosing 

mig35 mass produce 2019
su30 we can get it off the self or brand new
j16 still testing
j10 still has some engine issue

jas 39 gripen and f16 has string attach will be hard to acquire


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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> first. yes. i know.
> and it's K-8W from China. not licensed production. but air-frame and some parts are made in local factory.. we're assembling them 7 years ago..


You guys are able to producing them without hassle because you guys got the tech transfer lisence possibly only for indigenous requirements. 

Else if you guys are doing without... it's termed as reverse engineering.... which would be near impossible for Myanmar unless it starves its population to death like North Korea.


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## ~Phoenix~

Aung Zaya said:


> I even think it was brought from China and made some sticker on it.. Something like BAAZ.. And they're still talking about making own fighter jet prototype in 2021 in their BAC..
> 
> Seem our UAV which was made in a decade ago have better looking than BAAZ
> View attachment 373794



BAAZ? Thats a soldier-carried drone.Now these are actual drones used for both targeting training/ reconaissance roles since 2013-14.













The name is yet to be disclosed,but this is used for targeting role but cameras and sensors can be fitted into the front nose for reconaissance duties.













This is LY-B160,also produced locally in BAC is a targetting drone as well a reconaissance ones.It features LOS Data-Link system with GCS and can be reused and a parachute can be used to safely retrieve the system from land or sea.


BAC is now working on an actual sophiscated MALE ( Medium Altitude Long Endurance ) UCAV which will be operational in the upcoming years.
Also,we'll make our own indigneously designed basic trainer whose first flight is scheduled on 2021,which would be similar to the Nanchang PT-6s we have. ( We overhaul and maintain them in BAC )



We also made this low-cost UGV ( Unmanned Ground Vehicle ) developed by BUET ( Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology ) and MIST ( Military University of Science and Technology ).BMTF ( Bangladesh Machine Tools Factory ) is thought to produce these drones,but no official confirmation.









There are other UGVs like the one used by DMP ( Dhaka Metropolitan Police ) & CMP ( Chittagong Metropolitan Police ) for bomb detecting and bomb disposal roles.


Bangladesh's doctrine is to keep the military as secret as possible,so there are alot of drone projects which are going on behind the screen.After all, "If you know your enemy and yourself,you need not to fear the results of a hundred battles" - Sun Tzu.




Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> BAAZ? Thats a soldier-carried drone.Now these are actual drones used for both targeting training/ reconaissance roles since 2013-14.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 373887
> View attachment 373888
> View attachment 373889
> 
> The name is yet to be disclosed,but this is used for targeting role but cameras and sensors can be fitted into the front nose for reconaissance duties.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 373892
> View attachment 373893
> View attachment 373894
> 
> This is LY-B160,also produced locally in BAC is a targetting drone as well a reconaissance ones.It features LOS Data-Link system with GCS and can be reused and a parachute can be used to safely retrieve the system from land or sea.
> 
> 
> BAC is now working on an actual sophiscated MALE ( Medium Altitude Long Endurance ) UCAV which will be operational in the upcoming years.
> Also,we'll make our own indigneously designed basic trainer whose first flight is scheduled on 2021,which would be similar to the Nanchang PT-6s we have. ( We overhaul and maintain them in BAC )
> 
> 
> 
> We also made this low-cost UGV ( Unmanned Ground Vehicle ) developed by BUET ( Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology ) and MIST ( Military University of Science and Technology ).BMTF ( Bangladesh Machine Tools Factory ) is thought to produce these drones,but no official confirmation.
> 
> View attachment 373896
> View attachment 373898
> 
> 
> There are other UGVs like the one used by DMP ( Dhaka Metropolitan Police ) & CMP ( Chittagong Metropolitan Police ) for bomb detecting and bomb disposal roles.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh's doctrine is to keep the military as secret as possible,so there are alot of drone projects which are going on behind the screen.After all, "If you know your enemy and yourself,you need not to fear the results of a hundred battles" - Sun Tzu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


there is no detailed information on the jet that will fly on 2021... all we know for sure is that it will be a prototype completely designed by us and will be a fighter jet... what roles, how many engines, what sensors and all the related is not known... or not announced in other words


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## Gandh brandi

~Phoenix~ said:


> BAAZ? Thats a soldier-carried drone.Now these are actual drones used for both targeting training/ reconaissance roles since 2013-14.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 373887
> View attachment 373888
> View attachment 373889
> 
> The name is yet to be disclosed,but this is used for targeting role but cameras and sensors can be fitted into the front nose for reconaissance duties.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 373892
> View attachment 373893
> View attachment 373894
> 
> This is LY-B160,also produced locally in BAC is a targetting drone as well a reconaissance ones.It features LOS Data-Link system with GCS and can be reused and a parachute can be used to safely retrieve the system from land or sea.
> 
> 
> BAC is now working on an actual sophiscated MALE ( Medium Altitude Long Endurance ) UCAV which will be operational in the upcoming years.
> Also,we'll make our own indigneously designed basic trainer whose first flight is scheduled on 2021,which would be similar to the Nanchang PT-6s we have. ( We overhaul and maintain them in BAC )
> 
> 
> 
> We also made this low-cost UGV ( Unmanned Ground Vehicle ) developed by BUET ( Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology ) and MIST ( Military University of Science and Technology ).BMTF ( Bangladesh Machine Tools Factory ) is thought to produce these drones,but no official confirmation.
> 
> View attachment 373896
> View attachment 373898
> 
> 
> There are other UGVs like the one used by DMP ( Dhaka Metropolitan Police ) & CMP ( Chittagong Metropolitan Police ) for bomb detecting and bomb disposal roles.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh's doctrine is to keep the military as secret as possible,so there are alot of drone projects which are going on behind the screen.After all, "If you know your enemy and yourself,you need not to fear the results of a hundred battles" - Sun Tzu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


Okay, I'll be the first to ask. How the hell is that thing flying? I don't see any propellers and I see combustion before takeoff.


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> there is no detailed information on the jet that will fly on 2021... all we know for sure is that it will be a prototype completely designed by us and will be a fighter jet... what roles, how many engines, what sensors and all the related is not known... or not announced in other words



Firstly,its not a jet fighter.It'll be a basic trainer ( like PT-6 ) or a basic jet trainer ( like L-39 ) at best.




Sybaris Caeser said:


> Okay, I'll be the first to ask. How the hell is that thing flying? I don't see any propellers and I see combustion before takeoff.



Which drone? 




Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Firstly,its not a jet fighter.It'll be a basic trainer ( like PT-6 ) or a basic jet trainer ( like L-39 ) at best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which drone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


and how are you so sure?


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## tarpitz

Aung Zaya said:


> are u sure all the ingredient in that tiny UAV is completely BD made..? lol and u should know we're assembling REAL jet. not a toy like BD BAAZ what u can buy somewhere else with few money... even buying Chinese small drone would be cheaper and better..


Even the screwdrivers and screws used in that so called UAV are "Made in China" I am sure.

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## Aung Zaya

Mohammed Khaled said:


> You guys are able to producing them without hassle because you guys got the tech transfer lisence possibly only for indigenous requirements.
> 
> Else if you guys are doing without... it's termed as reverse engineering.... which would be near impossible for Myanmar unless it starves its population to death like North Korea.


yes. it can say partly licensed produced..


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## Kandari-Hushiyaar



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## Aung Zaya

~Phoenix~ said:


> BAC is now working on an actual sophiscated MALE ( Medium Altitude Long Endurance ) UCAV which will be operational in the upcoming years.


Lol UCAV..? Do u have concept design..? What kind of weapon will it carry.. ? I'm interesting it's weapons.. How about FCS and electronic..? 


~Phoenix~ said:


> Also,we'll make our own indigneously designed basic trainer whose first flight is scheduled on 2021,which would be similar to the Nanchang PT-6s we have. ( We overhaul and maintain them in BAC )


I don't understand this part.. U means ur trainer will be developed based on PT-6's design..?

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## ~Phoenix~

Aung Zaya said:


> I don't understand this part.. U means ur trainer will be developed based on PT-6's design..?



Well,it would be a basic trainer..so I compared it to our PT-6s.



Aung Zaya said:


> Lol UCAV..? Do u have concept design..? What kind of weapon will it carry.. ? I'm interesting it's weapons.. How about FCS and electronic..?



Not disclosed yet,but be sure that it'll have AGMs like AR-5,and presicion guided bombs.Design would be based on experience gained from our existing ones...both disclosed & undisclosed.


Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> Lol UCAV..? Do u have concept design..? What kind of weapon will it carry.. ? I'm interesting it's weapons.. How about FCS and electronic..?
> 
> I don't understand this part.. U means ur trainer will be developed based on PT-6's design..?


bullshit... we have this negotiation to get yak-152 with tot atm on going.... nothing came to fruition! 
and that's the seperate goal.... current goal is to get a jet flying.... trainer like the 130 or l-39 or something similar to a mig 21.... a flying jet!

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> bullshit... we have this negotiation to get yak-152 with tot atm on going.... nothing came to fruition!
> and that's the seperate goal.... current goal is to get a jet flying.... trainer like the 130 or l-39 or something similar to a mig 21.... a flying jet!



L-39 at best.





Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> L-39 at best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


l-39 is no slouch either.... from 0 to 10... it is a big step

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> l-39 is no slouch either.... from 0 to 10... it is a big step



But don't expect anything better from that.We only have experience of making UAVs and overhauling/maintainance of aircraft.





Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> But don't expect anything better from that.We only have experience of making UAVs and overhauling/maintainance of aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


you talk like as if i am asking for a f-16 territory jet...
fun fact: oh l-39 is more nimble than a mig21 or any of its derivatives


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> oh l-39 is more nimble than a mig21 or any of its derivatives



A cessna is way more nimble than a F-22. Your point?

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## Bilal9

Sybaris Caeser said:


> Okay, I'll be the first to ask. How the hell is that thing flying? I don't see any propellers and I see combustion before takeoff.



Looks like a solid fuel rocket pack assisted take off (JATO pack) with a small petrol engine in the nose that produces thrust. The props are spinning but cannot be seen. This is a small 25 to 30cc engine, typically used with weed trimmer applications, but converted for drone use in this case.

Once you use rocket assisted takeoff, you don't need a lot of engine power to stay aloft.

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## Gandh brandi

Bilal9 said:


> Looks like a solid fuel rocket pack assisted take off (JATO pack) with a small petrol engine in the nose that produces thrust. The props are spinning but cannot be seen. This is a small 25 to 30cc engine, typically used with weed trimmer applications, but converted for drone use in this case.
> 
> Once you use rocket assisted takeoff, you don't need a lot of engine power to stay aloft.


:O wow! but recovery must be a bitch process. Phoenix said they're retrieved via parachute.

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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> A cessna is way more nimble than a F-22. Your point?


xD
well my point is i would rather hop in a l39 during combat than a stupid f-7 or mig 21...
not much of a difference in payload... speed and range will be on the latter's advantage... but still...
i think they're too obsolete to do any particular task... the way it was designed...
on the other hand... i can use a l39 to jet convert my pilots... use it for ground attack and reconnaissance role and also a bit of dogfight in visual range... planes like it are all rounder...


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> xD
> well my point is i would rather hop in a l39 during combat than a stupid f-7 or mig 21...
> not much of a difference in payload... speed and range will be on the latter's advantage... but still...
> i think they're too obsolete to do any particular task... the way it was designed...
> on the other hand... i can use a l39 to jet convert my pilots... use it for ground attack and reconnaissance role and also a bit of dogfight in visual range... planes like it are all rounder...




L-39? Seriously? 
L-39 does not have proper radar or capability to fire missiles and doesn't have any more than 2 hard points.



Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> L-39? Seriously?
> L-39 does not have proper radar or capability to fire missiles and doesn't have any more than 2 hard points.
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


what's the use of having everything when you can;t do anything with em?
f-35 has lots of stuff and in some scenarios they work... but practically it can't dance... so why not lol...

aircrafts of ww2 didn;t had many things and there was shortcomings and advantages in each in every aircraft... seriously i miss planes from those days


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## Bilal9

Sybaris Caeser said:


> :O wow! but recovery must be a bitch process. Phoenix said they're retrieved via parachute.



For medium or Heavy UAV/UCAV - launch using JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off) assists and recovery using parachute are pretty standard.

Depends on UAV/UCAV vehicle design, area of operations etc.

Anything heavier than human weight (say 200 pounds), then landing by runway may be a very good option. In ships, recovery by elastic net is practiced as well.

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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> xD
> well my point is i would rather hop in a l39 during combat than a stupid f-7 or mig 21...
> not much of a difference in payload... speed and range will be on the latter's advantage... but still...
> i think they're too obsolete to do any particular task... the way it was designed...
> on the other hand... i can use a l39 to jet convert my pilots... use it for ground attack and reconnaissance role and also a bit of dogfight in visual range... planes like it are all rounder...



Speed matters a lot when you need to intercept effectively with both C4I resources and bulk asset deployment behind in mind. Front line fighters cannot be L-39s, unless your airforce does't care about having first responders and front liners. They will get swatted pretty badly...or worse yet just bypassed.

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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> Speed matters a lot when you need to intercept effectively with both C4I resources and bulk asset deployment behind in mind. Front line fighters cannot be L-39s, unless your airforce does't care about having first responders and front liners. They will get swatted pretty badly...or worse yet just bypassed.


nah... i am not talking about frontline fighters of a huge complicated structured institution like a countries airforce...
imo i would hop in a l39 over a mig 21 any day if the scenario is WVR dogfight... and maybe a little strafing runs...

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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> i would hop in a l39 over a mig 21 any day if the scenario is WVR dogfight.



Thats a fraction of a percentage of engagements in todays air combat....even for majority of cold war (post vietnam) it was the case.

But its ok, you have identified a role for it at least. It would be a good body to have for light CAS that can defend itself in the air if something doesnt kill it from far away.....(past its assigned training role of course).


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## ~Phoenix~

Nilgiri said:


> Front line fighters cannot be L-39s




L-39s are just basic jet trainers lol.Our front line fighters are F-7 BGs of 5th Squadron based at BAF Forward Operating Base ( FOB ) at Cox's Bazar,the closest air base to Myanmar border.
Lets take a defensive scenario,Myanmar decides to attack from the air,the F-7 BGs would be immediately scrambled to intercept and give enough valuable time to prepare the air defences in Dhaka and Chittagong and allow F-7 BGIs of 35th Squadrons "Thunder Cats" and MiG-29s belonging to 8th Squadron "Victory Valor Vigilance" to be up in the air ready for combat.And in such a scenario,L-39 would be used for....




Kira.

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## Nilgiri

~Phoenix~ said:


> And in such a scenario,L-39 would be used for....



You can use for CAS and general recon. Its good to have swing role a/c as generic multi-duty birds so you can use the prima donnas in their more optimised roles.

Romans and the Greeks before them followed this philosophy in the battlefield. The Greek veteran hoplites would form the phalanx, and their regular grunts would be further behind as support and to launch spears etc....but put them in front instead and they would be shredded to pieces generally.

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## bluesky

Mohammed Khaled said:


> nah... i am not talking about frontline fighters of a huge complicated structured institution like a countries airforce...
> imo i would hop in a l39 over a mig 21 any day if the scenario is WVR dogfight... and maybe a little strafing runs...


Is not it better for BAF to buy instead 4 sqn. of Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth 5G fighters with a price tag of $95 million per piece? It is stealth and its electronics device will cause the foe missile launching system to malfunction. People seem to be unhappy with what BAF has, its current pilot training programs with YAK-130, and finally its purchase plan of 8/9 sqn. of 4+G planes during the next 15 years.

PAF started with US planes with US money, IAF started with its own money, but is an old force. BAF has only started now with 2G air crafts, but with its own money. It will take a little more time to buy better ones. But, we must be pragmatic and matured in thinking. BD cannot possibly opt for an immediate option to buy hifi toys and thus ruin its economy.


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> Is not it better for BAF to buy instead 4 sqn. of Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth 5G fighters with a price tag of $95 million per piece? It is stealth and its electronics device will cause the foe missile launching system to malfunction. People seem to be unhappy with what BAF has, its current pilot training programs with YAK-130, and finally its purchase plan of 8/9 sqn. of 4+G planes during the next 15 years.
> 
> PAF started with US planes with US money, IAF started with its own money, but is an old force. BAF has only started now with 2G air crafts, but with its own money. It will take a little more time to buy better ones. But, we must be pragmatic and matured in thinking. BD cannot possibly opt for an immediate option to buy hifi toys and thus ruin its economy.


f-16 is out of question because US wouldn't sell it to us because we dont kiss their ***... f-35 is out of question...
i am not unhappy with what BAF got but i dearly hate those mig21 variants... took too many young lives...
BAF started with 3rd gen and then downgraded to 2nd gen for short period and back to 3rd gen and now a mix of 3rd and 4th gen...
and yes we must. can't be the burmese monkeys or North korea...


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## ~Phoenix~

Nilgiri said:


> You can use for CAS and general recon. Its good to have swing role a/c as generic multi-duty birds so you can use the prima donnas in their more optimised roles.








For CAS,we have K-8Ws and lethal Yak-130s.Anyways,the L-39s would be retired out of service soon.


Kira.

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## syed1

~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 374651
> 
> For CAS,we have K-8Ws and lethal Yak-130s.Anyways,the L-39s would be retired out of service soon.
> 
> 
> Kira.



This photoshop is so terrible!

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## Russell

bluesky said:


> Is not it better for BAF to buy instead 4 sqn. of Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth 5G fighters with a price tag of $95 million per piece? It is stealth and its electronics device will cause the foe missile launching system to malfunction.



Look at the countries who are getting the F-35 and then look at Bangladesh...

US
UK
Israel
Denmark
Italy
Netherlands
Norway
S. Korea
Turkey
Japan


Forget the initial cost...maintenance...training...or 'conditions'.

Strategically, we are still nobodies as far as the US is concerned. They would never sell us anything that high tech/cutting edge.


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## Michael Corleone

Russell said:


> Look at the countries who are getting the F-35 and then look at Bangladesh...
> 
> US
> UK
> Israel
> Denmark
> Italy
> Netherlands
> Norway
> S. Korea
> Turkey
> Japan
> 
> 
> Forget the initial cost...maintenance...training...or 'conditions'.
> 
> Strategically, we are still nobodies as far as the US is concerned. They would never sell us anything that high tech/cutting edge.


they wouldn't sell us f-16 for that matter.... only *** kissing countries get their latest and greatest...


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## ~Phoenix~

syed1 said:


> This photoshop is so terrible!



It was made around 2013-15...even before we recieved them,and we have different camo and pilot dresses than that pic.





Compare the camos.




Mohammed Khaled said:


> they wouldn't sell us f-16 for that matter.... only *** kissing countries get their latest and greatest...



The newer Russian and Chinese birds MiG-35,J-16,Su-30MKI,FC-31 and Su-35 are superior to every American aircraft except the F-22 Raptor.




Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> It was made around 2013-15...even before we recieved them,and we have different camo and pilot dresses than that pic.
> View attachment 374721
> 
> Compare the camos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian birds like MiG-35,Su-30MKI and Su-35 are superior to every American aircraft except the F-22 Raptor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


the only advantage a f-22 has over su-35 is stealth... and stealth is negligible and just used as a marketing campaign... 

but russians always sell downgraded birds to others... except closer partners like india and china who buy the planes in bulk.

for ex.... even if we have nukes in future or had em for ex... we wouldn't be able to use it with our mig 29... but the same model migs of soviet air force could...


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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> the only advantage a f-22 has over su-35 is stealth... and stealth is negligible and just used as a marketing campaign...



Stealth is useless against mordern radars used in aircraft.
For example,there is no aircraft produced yet that can stand against a MiG-31 in very long range combat.It can detect,track and engage small stealth objects from 180km onwards.




Mohammed Khaled said:


> but russians always sell downgraded birds to others... except closer partners like india and china who buy the planes in bulk.



China bought a relatively few amount though.
If we purchase more than 2 squadrons at once,its highly likely the Russians will give us good quality aircraft.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> for ex.... even if we have nukes in future or had em for ex... we wouldn't be able to use it with our mig 29... but the same model migs of soviet air force could...



Wrong,our ones are not configured for nuclear warheads because we don't posses them.

Kira.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Stealth is useless against mordern radars used in aircraft.
> For example,there is no aircraft produced yet that can stand against a MiG-31 in very long range combat.It can detect,track and engage small stealth objects from 180km onwards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China bought a relatively few amount though.
> If we purchase more than 2 squadrons at once,its highly likely the Russians will give us good quality aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong,our ones are not configured for nuclear warheads because we don't posses them.
> 
> Kira.


1st point.... correct

2nd point... china bought various models in good quantity... not a meagre 8 like us...
the point is... they will provide if you're long term good partner... they wont if we keep switching sides.

nope... bruh you dont know nothing... it's not just the software update... its also the strenghtning of airframe, adding hardwares and protecting internal instruments from radiations... EM waves etc...
our ones are downgraded in this place.... its a known fact...


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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> 1st point.... correct
> 
> 2nd point... china bought various models in good quantity... not a meagre 8 like us...
> the point is... they will provide if you're long term good partner... they wont if we keep switching sides.
> 
> nope... bruh you dont know nothing... it's not just the software update... its also the strenghtning of airframe, adding hardwares and protecting internal instruments from radiations... EM waves etc...
> our ones are downgraded in this place.... its a known fact...


The current Su35 bought by PLAAF will serve as aggressor force, cause the paint job is same with Vietnam Air Force. We are not satisfied with Russian radar and weapon system anymore, it's way behind the scheme. We will produce hundreds J16 and J11D. China sure has saying where Russian fighter stand, but we just won't tell.

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## Nabil365

wanglaokan said:


> The current Su35 bought by PLAAF will serve as aggressor force, cause the paint job is same with Vietnam Air Force. We are not satisfied with Russian radar and weapon system anymore, it's way behind the scheme. We will produce hundreds J16 and J11D. China sure has saying where Russian fighter stand, but we just won't tell.


No shit bro,if China can copy the f-35 and f-22 just wonder what else they can do lol.If I'm not wrong,Su-35s were bought to study the engines.


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## 帅的一匹

Nabil365 said:


> No shit bro,if China can copy the f-35 and f-22 just wonder what else they can do lol.If I'm not wrong,Su-35s were bought to study the engines.


Bro, engine can't be reversed. If there is one thing can't be reversed, it's fighter engine. The material, the core.


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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> The current Su35 bought by PLAAF will serve as aggressor force, cause the paint job is same with Vietnam Air Force. We are not satisfied with Russian radar and weapon system anymore, it's way behind the scheme. We will produce hundreds J16 and J11D. China sure has saying where Russian fighter stand, but we just won't tell.


you guys chose the weaker radar in favor of heavier payload.... so that you didn't had to get canards in....


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## asad71

~Phoenix~ said:


> It was made around 2013-15...even before we recieved them,and we have different camo and pilot dresses than that pic.
> View attachment 374721
> 
> Compare the camos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The newer Russian and Chinese birds MiG-35,J-16,Su-30MKI,FC-31 and Su-35 are superior to every American aircraft except the F-22 Raptor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.



Let's not dream. In reality we might - at best, end up getting more trainers and choppers. Don't forget our plans for procuring T urkish F-16s was scrapped by the India installed govt. Similarly our project of acquiring a S Africa-Korea-Turkey JV sub was also scrapped. Instead we have received two dhaddu Mings which are in such poor state that a commercial vessel had to carry them! And remember how proud we had felt receiving the first of the three regts of MBT-2000s. Again scrapped. The point is very simple. We need to pay a price to host an externally installed govt. Anything they find dangerous for them, they will veto. Don't forget also that our potential adversary is well aware of the threat perception that a farmer in Patuakhali or rickshaw puller at Dhaka hold points all ten fingers at them.


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## TopCat

asad71 said:


> Let's not dream. In reality we might - at best, end up getting more trainers and choppers. Don't forget our plans for procuring T urkish F-16s was scrapped by the India installed govt. Similarly our project of acquiring a S Africa-Korea-Turkey JV sub was also scrapped. Instead we have received two dhaddu Mings which are in such poor state that a commercial vessel had to carry them! And remember how proud we had felt receiving the first of the three regts of MBT-2000s. Again scrapped. The point is very simple. We need to pay a price to host an externally installed govt. Anything they find dangerous for them, they will veto. Don't forget also that our potential adversary is well aware of the threat perception that a farmer in Patuakhali or rickshaw puller at Dhaka hold points all ten fingers at them.



I dont think BNP will have the gutts to procure all those goodies. Armed forces showing interest does not mean government would had bought them. At least Hasina is brave enough to take big budget purchase.

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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> you guys chose the weaker radar in favor of heavier payload.... so that you didn't had to get canards in....


What you mean by weaker radar? Our AESA is way lighter than Russian one, just look at the size of server of Russian AESA and our KLJ7A. Chinese one is much smaller and exquisite.

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## asad71

~Phoenix~ said:


> @asad71 I wish you went to a school.But no matter what,current government won't just throw away MiG-29s and mothball our strongest ship unlike the whore Khaleda.
> 
> 
> Kira.



Out of eight aircraft bought, only two are able to fly. Of these two, one is a dual model meant for pilot training. The other one for solo fly past on ceremonial parades. And these planes have never taken part in live firing exercise. Honestly they should try and sell these off to Malaysia or whoever.

Its no t a BKZ vs SHW issue. The political leadership should listen to the military rather than to Delhi.


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## Tehari_Haleem

Present BD BAL Govt will not buy any Defence/Offence weapons that Indian Govt feels threatens India's Military Interests and Military Dominance in it's Eastern Border.... We may outwardly spend the $ to placate the BD military, but it will by and large be Hatir Daat with the tip sawed off 






 And unfortunately for us, BNP was even worse at even pretending to be trying


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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> What you mean by weaker radar? Our AESA is way lighter than Russian one, just look at the size of server of Russian AESA and our KLJ7A. Chinese one is much smaller and exquisite.


SU-30 MKK comes with weak radars because you guys didn't want a canard to help with maneuvering which would reduce your payload capacity...


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## ~Phoenix~

asad71 said:


> Out of eight aircraft bought, only two are able to fly. Of these two, one is a dual model meant for pilot training. The other one for solo fly past on ceremonial parades. And these planes have never taken part in live firing exercise. Honestly they should try and sell these off to Malaysia or whoever.








Apparently,the 3rd MiG-29 belongs to aliens.



Kira.

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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 375132
> 
> Apparently,the 3rd MiG-29 belongs to aliens.
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


luuuuuuuuuuuuulululululululululululululululul
xD in before someone says the 3rd one is from india on loan! xD

http://survincity.com/2012/06/lviv-state-aircraft-repair-plant-upgrade-mig-29-of/
it states our deal of 16 aircraft was for 124 million dollars.... since we recieved 8... let's assume we paid half which is 62 million dollars... so we got eat aircraft for around 7.75 mil... which means after poland which bought thier migs from germany for 1 euro each... we are the second lucky douchebags who nearly got it for free..... xD

can someone explain why some of our aircrafts painted in blue and some in silver and others in grey.... why do BAF keep this colour inconsistency?


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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> SU-30 MKK comes with weak radars because you guys didn't want a canard to help with maneuvering which would reduce your payload capacity...


Russia will never sell their best to China what they've got. They sold India MKi and sold China MKK. India is more important than China in their eyes. In other perspectives, Barahtis can't reverse anything advanced Russia sell them. You know what I mean......

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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> Russia will never sell their best to China what they've got. They sold India MKi and sold China MKK. India is more important than China in their eyes. In other perspectives, Barahtis can't reverse anything advanced Russia sell them. You know what I mean......


indian version is configured according to india's wishes... china's one is configured according to chinese wish... the chinese jet though lacks in radar department is fraction easier and better in maintenance and performance department as compared to indian one... but the indian one carries superior radar and as they've advance missile integration of their own.... makes up for what their jet lacks in....


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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> indian version is configured according to india's wishes... china's one is configured according to chinese wish... the chinese jet though lacks in radar department is fraction easier and better in maintenance and performance department as compared to indian one... but the indian one carries superior radar and as they've advance missile integration of their own.... makes up for what their jet lacks in....


MKI was a tech demonstrator.


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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> MKI was a tech demonstrator.


You know what mki even means?


----------



## TopCat

I wonder how advance PAK-FA would be.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> I wonder how advance PAK-FA would be.


Lol we are not getting that no matter how much money we can have.


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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Lol we are not getting that no matter how much money we can have.



Why?


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Why?


The mass production hasn't started yet. And when it does. First it meets Russia's demand and then India because they plan to field in large numbers. We come after that. Do nottnhing before 2025


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## asad71

~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 375132
> 
> Apparently,the 3rd MiG-29 belongs to aliens.
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.



It does; unless this is an old pix.


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## ghost250

@Mohammed Khaled i cant post this picture in that thread..nd thats a R-27 under the wing of a mig-29..

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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> @Mohammed Khaled i cant post this picture in that thread..nd thats a R-27 under the wing of a mig-29..
> View attachment 375228


Why can't you post it there? Banned?


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## ghost250

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Why can't you post it there? Banned?


i did post it there..but it is invisible now..dont knw why..!!


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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> i did post it there..but it is invisible now..dont knw why..!!



I'll re-post it.....

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## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> can someone explain why some of our aircrafts painted in blue and some in silver and others in grey.... why do BAF keep this colour inconsistency?



Racism.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> it states our deal of 16 aircraft was for 124 million dollars.... since we recieved 8... let's assume we paid half which is 62 million dollars... so we got eat aircraft for around 7.75 mil... which means after poland which bought thier migs from germany for 1 euro each... we are the second lucky douchebags who nearly got it for free..... xD



At that rate,we can afford sereval hundreds of them,dayum.






asad71 said:


> It does









3 more Alien MiGs flying with 2 BAF ones.






6 Alien MiGs with 2 BAF ones at Kumirtola Air Base.







Alien MiGs,Alien MiGs,
Alien all the way,
Oh what fun is to bitch-slap
that asshole asad



Kira.

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## Shorisrip

Do you guys think that the procurement for more multi-role fighters will be this year? Hopefully we don't get only 8 but a full squadron in any case.


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## Arthur

Shorisrip said:


> Do you guys think that the procurement for more multi-role fighters will be this year? Hopefully we don't get only 8 but a full squadron in any case.


You are getting 8 by next year whether we hope for more or not.


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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> You are getting 8 by next year whether we hope for more or not.


Would be happy if we even get one.


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## ghost250

~Phoenix~ said:


> Racism.
> 
> 
> 
> At that rate,we can afford sereval hundreds of them,dayum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 375686
> 
> 3 more Alien MiGs flying with 2 BAF ones.
> 
> 
> View attachment 375687
> 
> 6 Alien MiGs with 2 BAF ones at Kumirtola Air Base.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 375689
> 
> Alien MiGs,Alien MiGs,
> Alien all the way,
> Oh what fun is to bitch-slap
> that asshole asad
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.



last time when i visited armed forces hardware display,i asked an airforce officer about the rumor about these 6 alien migs !! he smiled me back nd said all those birdies r in fine condition nd infact now r more lethal ..


----------



## asad71

Again old pi


~Phoenix~ said:


> Racism.
> 
> 
> 
> At that rate,we can afford sereval hundreds of them,dayum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 375686
> 
> 3 more Alien MiGs flying with 2 BAF ones.
> 
> 
> View attachment 375687
> 
> 6 Alien MiGs with 2 BAF ones at Kumirtola Air Base.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 375689
> 
> Alien MiGs,Alien MiGs,
> Alien all the way,
> Oh what fun is to bitch-slap
> that asshole asad
> 
> 
> 
> Kira.


Again old pix. those on ground have been cannibalized to ensure the two fly. Otherwise the ACM will be in serious trouble.


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## Michael Corleone

asad71 said:


> Again old pi
> 
> Again old pix. those on ground have been cannibalized to ensure the two fly. Otherwise the ACM will be in serious trouble.


Dickhead rumor that started from BNP times.


----------



## rome333

Check a relative pure no-nonsense Dog Fight comparison of some fighters.

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## Michael Corleone

rome333 said:


> Check a relative pure no-nonsense Dog Fight comparison of some fighters.
> View attachment 375818


somewhat close... not accurate... as most of these fighters turn rate... like su-35 and f-22 is still classified.... its just estimation....





however... performance chart (turnrate) of su 27 vs f15

www.on.ru/img/technology/pic1_9.jlockpg

It shows that at a corner Velocety of 545 Km/h and a Turn rate of 25 Degrees/sec. A SU 27 has a Turn Radius of 1150 meters.
Wich is the tightest Turn Radius of all flyable planes on LockOn ( F-15= 1250, SU33= 1280, MIG29= 1490 meters ).... So don't go into a knife fight with a SU27 flown by a pilot who knows what he's doing

at the end... it still depends on whos piloting the aircraft... american pilots have lost in air excercises against su-30 of indian air force... but was able to defeat them later on with superior execution of tactics.


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## ~Phoenix~

Shorisrip said:


> Do you guys think that the procurement for more multi-role fighters will be this year? Hopefully we don't get only 8 but a full squadron in any case.



8 more mordernized and upgraded MiG-29s to complete the 8th Squadron "Victory Valor Vigilance".
I'm sure that cunt face asad71 would fart from his face and eat from his butthole when he sees all them flying.




rome333 said:


> Check a relative pure no-nonsense Dog Fight comparison of some fighters.
> View attachment 375818



Not even related to BAF.But that is pure joke made by some Swedish guy.A Su-27 has almost same maneuverability or even more than a F-22,and Su-35 is...well,an overkill.Also,the Flanker and Raptor are the top 2 most maneuverable birds in the history of aerial warfare.



Kira.

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## Russell

@~Phoenix~ While I agree with the name calling - I refer to the jamaati dog in worse terms...I think you should edit your post. 'it' has lots of friends on this forum...they'll report you and you'll get banned again.


----------



## masud



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## Nilgiri

Russell said:


> I refer to the jamaati dog



Talking about asad71 or someone else?


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## Michael Corleone

when mig 29 decides to settle down and have a baby... here is an example of a pregnant mig 29 mother also knows as SMT. the father is OVT ;D


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## Zabaniyah

asad71 said:


> Out of eight aircraft bought, only two are able to fly. Of these two, one is a dual model meant for pilot training. The other one for solo fly past on ceremonial parades. And these planes have never taken part in live firing exercise. Honestly they should try and sell these off to Malaysia or whoever.
> 
> Its no t a BKZ vs SHW issue. The political leadership should listen to the military rather than to Delhi.



Malaysia already retired their MiG-29's. 

All eight of BAF's MiG's are in flyable condition.



~Phoenix~ said:


> 6 Alien MiGs with 2 BAF ones at Kumirtola Air Base.



Plot twist: Those are actually Burmese.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Dickhead rumor that started from BNP times.



The reasons for difficulties with MiG's early on had been discussed to death in this very forum. I can't believe people are still spreading these over it.

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## Zabaniyah

Mohammed Khaled said:


> what can you say when most of bd members are 13 yo wannabe military men...



They are old actually. And from what I gathered, he did serve in the military way back since the Pakistan days. 

Also, remember @idune ? 

Those guys are really old.


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## asad71

Loki said:


> Malaysia already retired their MiG-29's.
> 
> All eight of BAF's MiG's are in flyable condition.
> 
> 
> 
> Plot twist: Those are actually Burmese.
> 
> 
> 
> The reasons for difficulties with MiG's early on had been discussed to death in this very forum. I can't believe people are still spreading these over it.



1.It has been found impossible to refurbish the six u/s. Not even Russia is willing. Ukraine is busy otherwise. Because of nonavailability of spares, nations like Malaysia and Burma want to dispose this of. The only option is Bandhu India. They have the facility. And e shall fall further into their poisonous lap should there be a conflict with Burma.
2. PAF has been careful to have similar inventory as their true friends. It is otherwise with BAF.

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## Bilal9

asad71 said:


> 1.It has been found impossible to refurbish the six u/s. Not even Russia is willing. Ukraine is busy otherwise. Because of nonavailability of spares, nations like Malaysia and Burma want to dispose this of. The only option is Bandhu India. They have the facility. *And e shall fall further into their poisonous lap should there be a conflict with Burma.*
> 2. PAF has been careful to have similar inventory as their true friends. It is otherwise with BAF.



Absolutely true. No offense to most Indians themselves but their government - less said the better.....

The last thing BAF should have is a dependency on Indian Govt.

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## Zabaniyah

Mohammed Khaled said:


> no offense but idunes was a d**k.... ultra conservative c**t...



Some suspected him to be Bihari (which of-course he so predictably denied). I never understood him. I suspect he's schizophrenic.



> whom are you talking about before that? pakistan days?....



Asad71.



> hmmm.... so far people who have made my blood boil is that
> mullah pic profile... dont remember the name...



Al-Zakir? Saiful Islam?

I don't agree with a lot of what Zakir bhai has to say. But he is at least honest and we respect each other's opinions. And that is very important. Something that idune never quite understood. He was a very divisive member here. 



> idunes
> rome333 but lately the guy is better
> bengali nazi... i mean like wtf whats with that name...
> 
> whose post i care about;...
> bigbossman
> loki
> bd 4 ever
> phoenix but only because he is like my brother... he has been annoying too xD



lolz...

Before I came here way back in 2011, this forum was dominated by conservatives. They tended to be very pro-Pakistan, even in light to the 71' War. Some views were upsetting or even shocking to me. My views are very left. But I did learn quite a bit. That's when I started dominating slowly. As time went by, this forum slowly grew with a more diverse range of Bangladeshis. Also, the politics of Bangladesh did not go in their favor. Hence, the silence.

The mistake that the conservatives made in my view was that they antagonized many Bangladeshis way too deep. And that along with a divisive member like idune. That way, they lost any popular support. And the dumbest of them all, they went directly against India. It doesn't work that way. You gotta play smart with them (especially when they are 30 times bigger than you).

I think Bangladeshis regardless of left or right can stand united.



asad71 said:


> 1.It has been found impossible to refurbish the six u/s. Not even Russia is willing. Ukraine is busy otherwise. Because of nonavailability of spares, nations like Malaysia and Burma want to dispose this of. The only option is Bandhu India. They have the facility. And e shall fall further into their poisonous lap should there be a conflict with Burma.



What is a u/s? Why wouldn't MiG Corporation be willing to cooperate even in light of their terrible after sales service and QC issues? Spares should always come from them no matter how bad they are delivering them on time. And from where did you get the information that Burma want to dispose of its Fulcrums? And as I've said before, Malaysia had already retired them.

As far as manufacture of spares go, even India suffers problems with them. But there had been discussions between India and Russia regarding the manufacture of some spares and components in India.



> "Servicing of MiG-29K and Kamov helicopters" is a severe problem due to lack of spares," an Indian Navy official said.
> 
> Suggesting ways to improve the supply of spares, an IAF official said: "Long-term supply agreements and long-term repair agreements with (Russian) original equipment manufacturers is the solution."


http://www.defensenews.com/articles...es-to-work-with-india-to-supply-weapon-spares



> Sources told Sputnik that delegation level talks are scheduled in March to sign the contract for improving spare parts availability including manufacturing some of them in India. Meanwhile, a significant improvement has witnessed in the availability of Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft in last two years. "Sukhoi availability which had slipped to 46 per cent today is now above 63 per cent," Parrikar said.


https://sputniknews.com/military/201701041049247824-india-russia-fighter-aircraft-pact/

I don't know if this is BS, but I'll give it a go.
http://www.makeinindiadefence.com/IN MiG-29 - 9.pdf
Unbelievable that these things are on the Internet.

I admit, all that took was a simple Google search with the sole purpose of verifying that piece of information you had provided.

Just explain one thing here: If the Indians themselves struggle with spares for the own Russian birds, how on earth would they be able to supply another country's? India is far from an industrialized country as of now. So, based on the data gathered (the latest), that piece of information you provided makes no sense. That kind of capability is only possible for an industrialized country. Or at least, deep knowledge of aircraft and engine technology.

I'm saying these even though I personally prefer Western jets.


> 2. PAF has been careful to have similar inventory as their true friends. It is otherwise with BAF.



I do not see how that is relevant to the BAF.

But I'll add something here for others to see. During the Kargil Conflict, the U.S. (not surprisingly) did impose sanctions on Pakistan, and that included their F-16's. And yet, they managed to keep them running long enough to keep the Indians at bay.

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## asad71

Loki said:


> What is a u/s? Why wouldn't MiG Corporation be willing? Spares should always come from them. And from where did you get the information that Burma want to dispose of its Fulcrums? And as I've said before, Malaysia had already retired them (you should pay more attention).
> 
> As far as manufacture of spares go, even India suffers problems with them. But there had been discussions regarding the manufacture of some spares and components in India.
> 
> 
> http://www.defensenews.com/articles...es-to-work-with-india-to-supply-weapon-spares
> 
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/military/201701041049247824-india-russia-fighter-aircraft-pact/
> 
> I don't know if this is BS, but I'll give it a go.
> http://www.makeinindiadefence.com/IN MiG-29 - 9.pdf
> Unbelievable that these things are on the Internet.
> 
> I admit, all that took was a simple Google search with the sole purpose of verifying that piece of information you had provided.
> 
> Just explain one thing here: If the Indians themselves struggle with spares for the own Russian birds, how on earth would they be able to supply another country's? India is far from an industrialized country as of now. So, based on the data gathered (the latest), that piece of information you provided makes no sense. That kind of capability is only possible for an industrialized country. Or at least, deep knowledge of aircraft and engine technology.
> 
> I'm saying these even though I personally prefer Western jets.
> 
> 
> I do not see how that is irrelevant to the BAF.
> 
> But I'll add something here for others to see. During the Kargil Conflict, the U.S. (not surprisingly) did impose sanctions on Pakistan, and that included their F-16's. And yet, they managed to keep them running long enough to keep the Indians at bay.




1.During '65 and '71 Turkey, Iran, Jordan and S Arabia covertly supplied spares and even aircraft. With similar inventory, and having trained / exercised together this was simple.

2. We should have similar arrangement with Indonesia and Malaysia. Although these two have issues of their own, both have been approaching us for more engagement. We may not realize but other Muslim nations respect / value us as a major Mulim country.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> Don't call him Asad71,call him jamaati doggy.
> 
> The product is MiG-35.I am wondering how did the SMT get impregnated by the OVT....
> 
> Hush,thats my special trait.Don't publicize it!
> 
> Kira.


but what matters is how ugly SMT looks on ground... even more uglier than the normal version...
i guess it's their speciality to look good in air and nothing else...

No... i will blow your cover!!!

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## Zabaniyah

asad71 said:


> 1.During '65 and '71 Turkey, Iran, Jordan and S Arabia covertly supplied spares and even aircraft. With similar inventory, and having trained / exercised together this was simple.



That was what Turkey did during the Kargil Conflict. That was how the Pakistanis kept the F-16's flying. Those two have history together. I'm aware that the Americans did impose sanctions on both the 65' and 71' war, but that doesn't answer my questions.

It's worth mentioning that Iran and Pakistan shared better relations during the Shah era. Their relations are frosty at best right now. Though I'd like so, Muslim brotherhood is just not there like it used to be. Long gone are the Cold War days.



> 2. We should have similar arrangement with Indonesia and Malaysia. Although these two have issues of their own, both have been approaching us for more engagement. We may not realize but other Muslim nations respect / value us as a major Mulim country.



The only other country I can think of is perhaps atheist China. But Malaysia and Indonesia? Really? They don't spend much on their respective military. The Malays operate only a handful of Flankers (ironically, they were inspired after being impressed by Indian MKI's). The Indonesians are now opting for Western gear. I fail to see how their Muslim quality qualifies as anything.

You are wrong about one thing here.

Let's be clear about one thing: India is a fast emerging economy, and most countries will tend to prefer them over us, Pakistan or anyone else in the neighborhood. And that especially includes most Muslim-majority countries. They won't respect you for your religion. They respect you for your money. That's the truth nowadays, like it or not. Be wary of that.

If we do require 'friends', make them contractual for starters. They are contracts because they have objectivity in mind.

In my view, ultimately build them ourselves. Trust no one. We don't need others to do things for us, we need to get past this. Unmanned (optional), autonomous, low observable air vehicles are the future.

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## rome333

BD Airforce finally floated a tender for a Medium Range SAM system. (have been hearing this since 2014, guess they were just window-shopping all this time!!!)
To be delivered in 20 months, system must be of latest model and must be manufactured after Jan 2017, min detection range 140km, min interception range 35km; in height 15km, 4 simultaneous engagement, min kill probability 80%, TOT on maintenance, source code, software, tech guys to be involved with assembling etc etc......
Most likely to be HQ16A but I Wish to see HQ16B.
We may see Indian DRDO Akash to participate as it also matches criteria or Even Russian Buk series.....

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## Tehari_Haleem

rome333 said:


> BD Airforce finally floated a tender for a Medium Range SAM system. (have been hearing this since 2014, guess they were just window-shopping all this time!!!)
> To be delivered in 20 months, system must be of latest model and must be manufactured after Jan 2017, min detection range 140km, min interception range 35km; in height 15km, 4 simultaneous engagement, min kill probability 80%, TOT on maintenance, source code, software, tech guys to be involved with assembling etc etc......
> Most likely to be HQ16A but I Wish to see HQ16B.
> We may see Indian DRDO Akash to participate as it also matches criteria or Even Russian Buk series.....



 Floating a tender is just a eyewash, LY-80 will be selected and delivered...some unit may already be in evaluation stage


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## rome333

China's HQ-16/ LY-80 SAM has thrust vectoring making its more lethal.


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## Nilgiri

~Phoenix~ said:


> Don't call him Asad71,call him jamaati doggy.



As much as I despise him. He should not get such nickname.

He did fight for your (and his) country and put his life on the line for it.

If you did not do the same, you should not attach a moniker to him. 

By all means criticize and call him jamati period.

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## Gandh brandi

*sigh* I always miss these fun discussions


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## TopCat

http://www.janes.com/article/63500/china-develops-longer-range-hq-16-sam-variant


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## TopCat

rome333 said:


> BD Airforce finally floated a tender for a Medium Range SAM system. (have been hearing this since 2014, guess they were just window-shopping all this time!!!)
> To be delivered in 20 months, system must be of latest model and must be manufactured after Jan 2017, min detection range 140km, min interception range 35km; in height 15km, 4 simultaneous engagement, min kill probability 80%, TOT on maintenance, source code, software, tech guys to be involved with assembling etc etc......
> Most likely to be HQ16A but I Wish to see HQ16B.
> We may see* Indian DRDO Akash to participate* as it also matches criteria or Even Russian Buk series.....



Indian Akash does not qualify. I just read the document. Akash does not qualify in two grounds.
1) Must had a existing foreign buyer.
2) Must have range up to 35 km whereas akash have only 25 km
3) It also want surveillance radar, tracking radar, launcher in separate vehicle. Not sure if Akash qualify for that.

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## Arthur

*HQ16A LY-80 Ground-to-air defense missile system*







*Description

 Back to top
Design 
The HQ16A (LY-80) launcher missile system is carried by an 8x8 truck that contains a command and control station behind the cab, and behind those are six firing missile containers in two rows of three. These containers are tilted back so that the missiles can be fired straight up, just as they are from VLS (Vertical launch System) cells. In firing position, the wheels are raised off the ground and the carriage is supported at four points by hydraulic jacks, two at the rear and one on each side. 
Missile 
The HQ16A (LY-80) missile can intercept an aerial flying target from an 15 m to 18 km of altitude, while its maximum interception range for combat aircraft is 40km, and between 3.5 km and 12 km for cruise missiles flying at an altitude of 50 meters at a speed of 300 meters/second. Single-shot kill probability is a claimed figure of 85 per cent against combat aircraft, and 60 per cent against cruise missiles. The missile guidance system is of the composite type, comprising initial independent inertial guidance and intermittent illumination and semi-active homing terminal guidance.

Control and command systems

The HQ16A (LY-80) SAM components comprise a searching radar vehicle, command vehicle, radar tracking and guidance vehicle, launcher unit vehicle, and missiles canister. Technical support equipment includes missile transportation and loading vehicle, power supply vehicle, maintenance vehicle, and missile-test equipment. A single radar guidance vehicle controls two to four launcher units with six missiles ready to launch. The command vehicle is responsible to send target information and combat orders.
The searching radar vehicle is equipped with solid-state S-band 3-D passive phased-array radar mounted on the top of a mast. When the target is detected, the searching radar vehicle performs automatic IFF (Identification Friend-or-Foe), threat judgment, flight path processing and provide target engagement information for the tracking-and-guidance radar. The S-band radar has a range of 140 km and can detect targets flying at an altitude of 20 km.



Search radar vehicle from HQ-16A (LY-80) air defence missile system battery unit

The tracking and guidance radar vehicle performs target acquisition and tracking, and identification of target types. It also controls the missile launching and illuminates the target after the missile is fired. L-band passive phased-array radar is mounted at the rear of the vehicle and has a range of 85 km. The L-band radar can detect up to six targets and track four of them, and provide fire-control/guidance for up to eight missiles.



Tracking/guidance radar vehicle from HQ-16A (LY-80) air defence missile system battery unit

Specifications

Type
ground-to-air defense missile system

Country users
China
Designer Country
China

Guidance system
Inertial guidance and intermittent illumination

Speed missile
Mach 3*

*Launch Weight
690 kg

Warhead missile
70 kg

Range
3 - 42 km 

Dimensions missile
Length, 5,010 m; diameter 0,340 m

Details View













*

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## Arthur

my personal favourite

Buk M3


*Description
Buk-M3 system, features advanced electronic components and a deadly new missile and could be regarded as a completely new system. The system is designed, developed and manufactured by the Russian Defense Company Almaz-Antey. The Buk-M3 system boasts a new digital computer, high-speed data exchange system and a tele-thermal imaging target designator instead of the tele-optical trackers used in previous models. A battery of Buk-M3 missiles can track and engage up to 36 targets simultaneously, while its advanced 9R31M missile is capable of knocking down all existing flying objects, including highly maneuverable ones, even during active electronic jamming. The Buk-M3 can also engage sea and land targets, due to its vertical launch capability. According some Russian newspaper website, the Buk-M3 would be made operational before the end of 2015. In December 2015, the Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has announced that Russian Armed forces will receive in 2016 the first set of the newest medium-range air defense missile system Buk-M3.*

* 
Technical Data

Armament and radar system 
A Buk-M3 missile battery consists of two TELAR 9A317M (Transporter Erector LAuncher and Radar) and one TEL 9A316M (Transporter Erector Launcher) vehicle. The TELAR is based on the GM-569 tracked armoured chassis, carries six ready to fire missiles mounted on a turntable that can traverse a full 360°. The turret of the Buk-M3 TELAR includes fire control radar at the front and a launcher with six ready-to-fire missiles on top. The TEL uses the same tracked chassis as the TELAR Buk-M3 but the turret is fitted with two blocks of six missiles. 






Buk-M3 TEL (Transporter Erector Launcher) vehicle with two blocks of six missiles.

Missile
The Buk-M3 uses the new 9R31M missile radar-guided surface-to-air missile (SAM) with increased range and enhanced overall performance compared with the 9M38 used on the Buk-M1 and Buk-M2. The Buk-3M’s target-destruction probability has reached 0.9999 and its maximum destruction range has been increased by 25 kilometers and now stands at 70 kilometers. The Buk-M3 is able to destroy any types of air targets from a range of 2.5 to 70 km, with a speed of 3,000 m/s at an altitude from 15 m to 35 km. The Buk-M3 missile has been optimized for the interception of low-flying cruise missiles but can also engage ground and sea targets. The missile system also includes a new digital computer, high speed data exchange system and a thermal target imaging designator replacing optical trackers on previous Buk models. The 9R31M missile is fitted with high-explosive fragmentation warhead. 

Mobility
The Buk-M3 missile system is mounted on an tracked armoured chassis GM-569A as the Buk-M2. The Buk-M3 armoured vehicle is motorized with a V-46 multifuel diesel engine developing 710 hp at the maximum speed of 2.000 rpm. The hydro-mechanical transmission has a two-flow differential arrangement and includes a 4-speed planetary gearbox, an all-gear planetary reverse with a gear ratio of a unit, an integrated torque converter with a lockup friction clutch, summing rows, an input matching reduction unit comprising a bevel and a cylindrical pair of gears, control system pumps and a hydrostatic steering gear. The control of the hydro-mechanical transmission is electro-hydraulic. The cooling system of the engine and transmission system is of an ejection type and uses the traction engine exhaust energy The power required for the cooling system does not exceed 15 hp. The cooling system includes an ejector and a package of liquid-air radiators of the engine cooling and lubrication systems, the transmission oil system and the suspension shock absorber cooling system. The suspension either side consists of six dual roadwheels with the drive sprocket at the rear, idler at the front and four track-return rollers which support the inside of the double-pin track only. The vehicle can run at a maximum speed of 70 Km/h with a maximum road range of 500 km. The crew of 4 is located at the front of the vehicle. The crew enters and leave the vehicle via two large hatches located at the front of the armoured chassis. The vehicle is protected against firing of small arms and shell splinters.
Combat assets
- Target detection Stations
- 9A317M self-propelled fire unit with 6 missile (TELAR)
- 9A316M loader-launcher unit (LLU) with 12 missiles (TEL) 
- 9T243M transport and loader vehicle

Specifications

Type

Medium range surface-to-air missile systems
Armament
- Six missiles 9R31M TELAR vehicle 9A317M
- 12 missiles 9R31M TEL vehicle 9A316M

WarHead
HE high-explosive fragmentation*

*Crew
4
Range
2,500 - 70,000 m

Guidance system

terminal semi-active radar homing with inertial mid-course and course correction radio datalink updating

Radar
Phased-array radar*

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## Michael Corleone

Loki said:


> Some suspected him to be Bihari (which of-course he so predictably denied). I never understood him. I suspect he's schizophrenic.
> 
> Asad71.
> 
> Al-Zakir? Saiful Islam?
> 
> I don't agree with a lot of what Zakir bhai has to say. But he is at least honest and we respect each other's opinions. And that is very important. Something that idune never quite understood. He was a very divisive member here.
> lolz...
> 
> Before I came here way back in 2011, this forum was dominated by conservatives. They tended to be very pro-Pakistan, even in light to the 71' War. Some views were upsetting or even shocking to me. My views are very left. But I did learn quite a bit. That's when I started dominating slowly. As time went by, this forum slowly grew with a more diverse range of Bangladeshis. Also, the politics of Bangladesh did not go in their favor. Hence, the silence.
> 
> The mistake that the conservatives made in my view was that they antagonized many Bangladeshis way too deep. And that along with a divisive member like idune. That way, they lost any popular support. And the dumbest of them all, they went directly against India. It doesn't work that way. You gotta play smart with them (especially when they are 30 times bigger than you).
> 
> I think Bangladeshis regardless of left or right can stand united.
> 
> 
> 
> What is a u/s? Why wouldn't MiG Corporation be willing to cooperate even in light of their terrible after sales service and QC issues? Spares should always come from them no matter how bad they are delivering them on time. And from where did you get the information that Burma want to dispose of its Fulcrums? And as I've said before, Malaysia had already retired them.
> 
> As far as manufacture of spares go, even India suffers problems with them. But there had been discussions between India and Russia regarding the manufacture of some spares and components in India.
> 
> 
> http://www.defensenews.com/articles...es-to-work-with-india-to-supply-weapon-spares
> 
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/military/201701041049247824-india-russia-fighter-aircraft-pact/
> 
> I don't know if this is BS, but I'll give it a go.
> http://www.makeinindiadefence.com/IN MiG-29 - 9.pdf
> Unbelievable that these things are on the Internet.
> 
> I admit, all that took was a simple Google search with the sole purpose of verifying that piece of information you had provided.
> 
> Just explain one thing here: If the Indians themselves struggle with spares for the own Russian birds, how on earth would they be able to supply another country's? India is far from an industrialized country as of now. So, based on the data gathered (the latest), that piece of information you provided makes no sense. That kind of capability is only possible for an industrialized country. Or at least, deep knowledge of aircraft and engine technology.
> 
> I'm saying these even though I personally prefer Western jets.
> 
> 
> I do not see how that is relevant to the BAF.
> 
> But I'll add something here for others to see. During the Kargil Conflict, the U.S. (not surprisingly) did impose sanctions on Pakistan, and that included their F-16's. And yet, they managed to keep them running long enough to keep the Indians at bay.


most likely!

yes that's true... Mr. zakir atleast knows to respect people i will give that to him. he has the mutual respect for one another.



rome333 said:


> China's HQ-16/ LY-80 SAM has thrust vectoring making its more lethal.


based on second buk series... its to be expected



Nilgiri said:


> As much as I despise him. He should not get such nickname.
> 
> He did fight for your (and his) country and put his life on the line for it.
> 
> If you did not do the same, you should not attach a moniker to him.
> 
> By all means criticize and call him jamati period.


i am happy to see the human touch in you!  respect



Khan saheb said:


> my personal favourite
> 
> Buk M3
> 
> 
> *Description
> Buk-M3 system, features advanced electronic components and a deadly new missile and could be regarded as a completely new system. The system is designed, developed and manufactured by the Russian Defense Company Almaz-Antey. The Buk-M3 system boasts a new digital computer, high-speed data exchange system and a tele-thermal imaging target designator instead of the tele-optical trackers used in previous models. A battery of Buk-M3 missiles can track and engage up to 36 targets simultaneously, while its advanced 9R31M missile is capable of knocking down all existing flying objects, including highly maneuverable ones, even during active electronic jamming. The Buk-M3 can also engage sea and land targets, due to its vertical launch capability. According some Russian newspaper website, the Buk-M3 would be made operational before the end of 2015. In December 2015, the Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has announced that Russian Armed forces will receive in 2016 the first set of the newest medium-range air defense missile system Buk-M3.*
> 
> *
> Technical Data
> 
> Armament and radar system
> A Buk-M3 missile battery consists of two TELAR 9A317M (Transporter Erector LAuncher and Radar) and one TEL 9A316M (Transporter Erector Launcher) vehicle. The TELAR is based on the GM-569 tracked armoured chassis, carries six ready to fire missiles mounted on a turntable that can traverse a full 360°. The turret of the Buk-M3 TELAR includes fire control radar at the front and a launcher with six ready-to-fire missiles on top. The TEL uses the same tracked chassis as the TELAR Buk-M3 but the turret is fitted with two blocks of six missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buk-M3 TEL (Transporter Erector Launcher) vehicle with two blocks of six missiles.
> 
> Missile
> The Buk-M3 uses the new 9R31M missile radar-guided surface-to-air missile (SAM) with increased range and enhanced overall performance compared with the 9M38 used on the Buk-M1 and Buk-M2. The Buk-3M’s target-destruction probability has reached 0.9999 and its maximum destruction range has been increased by 25 kilometers and now stands at 70 kilometers. The Buk-M3 is able to destroy any types of air targets from a range of 2.5 to 70 km, with a speed of 3,000 m/s at an altitude from 15 m to 35 km. The Buk-M3 missile has been optimized for the interception of low-flying cruise missiles but can also engage ground and sea targets. The missile system also includes a new digital computer, high speed data exchange system and a thermal target imaging designator replacing optical trackers on previous Buk models. The 9R31M missile is fitted with high-explosive fragmentation warhead.
> 
> Mobility
> The Buk-M3 missile system is mounted on an tracked armoured chassis GM-569A as the Buk-M2. The Buk-M3 armoured vehicle is motorized with a V-46 multifuel diesel engine developing 710 hp at the maximum speed of 2.000 rpm. The hydro-mechanical transmission has a two-flow differential arrangement and includes a 4-speed planetary gearbox, an all-gear planetary reverse with a gear ratio of a unit, an integrated torque converter with a lockup friction clutch, summing rows, an input matching reduction unit comprising a bevel and a cylindrical pair of gears, control system pumps and a hydrostatic steering gear. The control of the hydro-mechanical transmission is electro-hydraulic. The cooling system of the engine and transmission system is of an ejection type and uses the traction engine exhaust energy The power required for the cooling system does not exceed 15 hp. The cooling system includes an ejector and a package of liquid-air radiators of the engine cooling and lubrication systems, the transmission oil system and the suspension shock absorber cooling system. The suspension either side consists of six dual roadwheels with the drive sprocket at the rear, idler at the front and four track-return rollers which support the inside of the double-pin track only. The vehicle can run at a maximum speed of 70 Km/h with a maximum road range of 500 km. The crew of 4 is located at the front of the vehicle. The crew enters and leave the vehicle via two large hatches located at the front of the armoured chassis. The vehicle is protected against firing of small arms and shell splinters.
> Combat assets
> - Target detection Stations
> - 9A317M self-propelled fire unit with 6 missile (TELAR)
> - 9A316M loader-launcher unit (LLU) with 12 missiles (TEL)
> - 9T243M transport and loader vehicle
> 
> Specifications
> 
> Type
> 
> Medium range surface-to-air missile systems
> Armament
> - Six missiles 9R31M TELAR vehicle 9A317M
> - 12 missiles 9R31M TEL vehicle 9A316M
> 
> WarHead
> HE high-explosive fragmentation*
> 
> *Crew
> 4
> Range
> 2,500 - 70,000 m
> 
> Guidance system
> 
> terminal semi-active radar homing with inertial mid-course and course correction radio datalink updating
> 
> Radar
> Phased-array radar*


i prefer buk over anything else really

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## sbmc27

Please don't make any abusive language.
Actually he is not our ultimate enemy, how bad he could be. 


~Phoenix~ said:


> Don't call him Asad71,call him jamaati dogg


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> i am happy to see the human touch in you!  respect



If people here weren't so sensitive and go into nasty trolling escalation mode over little things each time, the conservations might be a lot better. Why does this subforum suck so much, is something its residents should really think about.


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## Nilgiri

Philia said:


> What is internet without trolls and memes?



Haha...

But I do find this subforum is way more sensitive than others. I hope BD people over time become more confident, it will make for more mature conversations rather than 99% getting dragged into the equivalent of "yo mamma" insults with little effort (and often among themselves too).

Such attitude/complex afflicts whole region for sure, but BD especially I have realised. I guess given the violent history (esp turmoil and nature of birth of BD) and its location/size/conditions what have you....it can be empathised with...but I still hope for change as fast as possible.

If this forum had like 5 or 6 more of @Loki, each replacing a regular BD troll it would be quite a good one imo.

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## bd_4_ever

I remember posting a thread back in 2011-2012 about our interest in Buk-Systems. Guess I was right. But given how we have become more China-centric, HQ-16 A/B seems more of a possibility. Given BAF also wants assembly facilities, I doubt Russians would give that.

However, I wouldn't mind either. Both are quite good.

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## Arthur

bd_4_ever said:


> I remember posting a thread back in 2011-2012 about our interest in Buk-Systems. Guess I was right. But given how we have become more China-centric, HQ-16 A/B seems more of a possibility. Given BAF also wants assembly facilities, I doubt Russians would give that.
> 
> However, I wouldn't mind either. Both are quite good.


Russia is going to replace older BUK series systems with BUK M3 series. We can try to grab the older systems to build up numbers. BUK M3 would give a good qualitative edge though even if only 5-6 regiments are added.

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## TopCat

Khan saheb said:


> Russia is going to replace older BUK series systems with BUK M3 series. We can try to grab the older systems to build up numbers. BUK M3 would give a good qualitative edge though even if only 5-6 regiments are added.



The tender document explicitly asked for brand new, manufactured after Jan-2017.

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## rome333

TopCat said:


> The tender document explicitly asked for brand new, manufactured after Jan-2017.


And our own Tech guys Must be there actively participating with the assembling process, at suppliers expense.


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## bd_4_ever

Khan saheb said:


> Russia is going to replace older BUK series systems with BUK M3 series. We can try to grab the older systems to build up numbers. BUK M3 would give a good qualitative edge though even if only 5-6 regiments are added.





TopCat said:


> The tender document explicitly asked for brand new, manufactured after Jan-2017.



Then it is likely to be Chinese systems. Can anyone share a part of the tender here?

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## Arthur

TopCat said:


> The tender document explicitly asked for brand new, manufactured after Jan-2017.


I understand that. Just talking the how we can easily achieve large number, outside this tender.


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## TopCat

bd_4_ever said:


> Then it is likely to be Chinese systems. Can anyone share a part of the tender here?


http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/user_view/index.php
its in the public domain and in the first page under airforce section

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## Gandh brandi

Nilgiri said:


> If people here weren't so sensitive and go into nasty trolling escalation mode over little things each time, the conservations might be a lot better. Why does this subforum suck so much, is something its residents should really think about.


The word you're looking for is circle-jerk. I understand your sentiment that you shouldn't stay quiet when someone insults you but that's the whole point of poking you. Generally I could care less what anyone talks about me, my mother, my country, my belief on the internet just as long as the guy who made the disparaging remark doesn't come across me irl. Internet anonymity makes one invincible that's that. "Pluck the good apple, ignore the bad," that's my motto.

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## Vengeful One

IISS Military Balance 2016 says that Bangladesh Air Force has 28 Mi-17s (in 3 variants) and BD Army has 6 Mi-17s (1 Variant).

Are these figures accurate?


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## Callsign Chaos

Vengeful One said:


> IISS Military Balance 2016 says that Bangladesh Air Force has 28 Mi-17s (in 3 variants) and BD Army has 6 Mi-17s (1 Variant).
> 
> Are these figures accurate?


BAF has 30 Mi-17s & BA 6 Mi-17s.


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## Michael Corleone

Callsign Chaos said:


> BAF has 30 Mi-17s & BA 6 Mi-17s.


is that currently in country or counting the ones that serve in UN too?


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## syed1



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## Callsign Chaos

Mohammed Khaled said:


> is that currently in country or counting the ones that serve in UN too?


Includes one's under UN too.


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## Michael Corleone

syed1 said:


> View attachment 378726
> View attachment 378724
> View attachment 378725


what maneuver was it doing?


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## syed1



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## asad71

IN is looking for Mig 29's for its carriers. If BAF's Mig 29s can be refitted to naval version then this is a golden opportunity to get rid of the junk in BAF's inventory.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> IN is looking for Mig 29's for its carriers. If BAF's Mig 29s can be refitted to naval version then this is a golden opportunity to get rid of the junk in BAF's inventory.



We are not interested. We get stuff brand new for commencement of operations.... not stuff that will basically cost almost the same (and even more when accounting for future performance limitations) to overhaul structurally. They are all going to the scrap yard when you retire them.


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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> We are not interested. We get stuff brand new for commencement of operations.... not stuff that will basically cost almost the same (and even more when accounting for future performance limitations) to overhaul structurally. They are all going to the scrap yard when you retire them.


maybe i will buy one to crash and die.... always been a dream to own one!

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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> maybe i will buy one to crash and die.... always been a dream to own one!



Sure, it might cost an arm and a leg....and then eventually your other arm, leg and everything else


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## Kailash Rava

the current mig-29 should b upgraded to SMT like standard ..till replacement is done

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## Avicenna

Realistically, Bangladesh needs to focus more on development of its infrastructure, healthcare, education and general well being of its people. 

Having said this, a certain level of capability is always prudent to have.

I don't think there will ever be conflict with India. Even if there is, a few modern toys here and there arn't going to change the inevitable defeat. Myanmar is a more likely, however still remote, possibility.

The point is, its unwise to spend on the military when the money is needed in so many other areas.

Maybe buying the 8 Mig-35s and upgrading its legacy -29s to SMT or comparable standard is the most bang for the buck.

More important than actually fielding modern types in quantity in the present however, is the introduction and familiarization of the BAF with new technologies and improving itself by implementing the philosophies and training that define a capable modern air arm. 

Perhaps buying the Yak-130 to start is evidence of this. Time will tell.

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## Kailash Rava

Mohammed Khaled said:


> what maneuver was it doing?


its hard to tell may be hes doing inside loop ..or zoom climbing or just climbing vertically upward.
mig-29 can also do cobra maneuvers


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## Michael Corleone

Kailash Rava said:


> its hard to tell may be hes doing inside loop ..or zoom climbing or just climbing vertically upward.
> mig-29 can also do cobra maneuvers


judging by the fins at second look i think it's just a vertical climb


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## asad71

Nilgiri said:


> We are not interested. We get stuff brand new for commencement of operations.... not stuff that will basically cost almost the same (and even more when accounting for future performance limitations) to overhaul structurally. They are all going to the scrap yard when you retire them.



We could also offer them to PAF for use as bogey in their exercises / drills.


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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> We could also offer them to PAF for use as bogey in their exercises / drills.



You are free to do with them whatever you want.

No one is buying them to operate them.


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## Kailash Rava

asad71 said:


> IN is looking for Mig 29's for its carriers. If BAF's Mig 29s can be refitted to naval version then this is a golden opportunity to get rid of the junk in BAF's inventory.





asad71 said:


> We could also offer them to PAF for use as bogey in their exercises / drills.


i dont know y u want to get rid of those mig-29s u have ..if u do u will only have those 37 f-7 jets to fight with.
those migs r the best fighter u have right now.


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## asad71

Kailash Rava said:


> i dont know y u want to get rid of those mig-29s u have ..if u do u will only have those 37 f-7 jets to fight with.
> those migs r the best fighter u have right now.



With one airworthy and another dual available, we can't to much fighting. ts better you take them and give us JF-17s in barter.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> With one airworthy and another dual available, we can't to much fighting. ts better you take them and give us JF-17s in barter.



You aren't getting crap in any barter, trade-in, grant or donation.

Pay for what you want in cold hard cash beggar from the OEM....or get lost.

Its preferable that BD can not do much fighting.....you end up hurting yourselves rather than anyone else.

Grow up, mature and become something of worth before you want real military supplies from anyone.....so you dont have to hoo-haah each time you buy 8 planes or 2 rusty subs or 1 small ship etc etc like you do now....all the while getting absolutely no serious C4I which is way more important.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

our 70-year old "mature" neighbour is sweating even with us getting 8-10 little birdies.... imagine what will they do when they hear something like a joint military exercise in the Bay of Bengal excluding India.... (oops!! forgot to put any partner name in the blanks!! )

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> our 70-year old "mature" neighbour is sweating even with us getting 8-10 little birdies.... imagine what will they do when they hear something like a joint military exercise in the Bay of Bengal excluding India.... (oops!! forgot to put any partner name in the blanks!! )


Who says they're sweating? I haven't seen any reports of reaction from India in matters of purchase of new fighters


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## Kailash Rava

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> our 70-year old "mature" neighbour is sweating even with us getting 8-10 little birdies.... imagine what will they do when they hear something like a joint military exercise in the Bay of Bengal excluding India.... (oops!! forgot to put any partner name in the blanks!! )


Lol..y do u think that?..
We want your military to b strong ...


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## asad71

Nilgiri said:


> You aren't getting crap in any barter, trade-in, grant or donation.
> 
> Pay for what you want in cold hard cash beggar from the OEM....or get lost.
> 
> Its preferable that BD can not do much fighting.....you end up hurting yourselves rather than anyone else.
> 
> Grow up, mature and become something of worth before you want real military supplies from anyone.....so you dont have to hoo-haah each time you buy 8 planes or 2 rusty subs or 1 small ship etc etc like you do now....all the while getting absolutely no serious C4I which is way more important.



Any worthwhile security regime for us must include clear / close military tie-up with China and Pakistan. Incorporating Indonesia and Turkey into this will keep the dog's tail permanently twisted down. Constant barking will cease.

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## Nilgiri

asad71 said:


> Any worthwhile security regime for us must include clear / close military tie-up with China and Pakistan. Incorporating Indonesia and Turkey into this will keep the dog's tail permanently twisted down. Constant barking will cease.



Constant Sheikh Hasinaaing makes you a barking mad guy 

Remember this is what you fought 1971 for, so she can be sitting where she is and smiling at you while you rage in Canada....year after year....making senile predictions to help self-medicate that.

Enjoy it for the rest of your life  while you dream of India annexing Bhutan (so you can finally say told you so) and this great Ummah - China alliance that you dream for BD.....while almost every Pakistani on this forum says they want absolutely nothing to do with BD.....whoever is in power.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Who says they're sweating? I haven't seen any reports of reaction from India in matters of purchase of new fighters


then what are the Indians doing in BD Air Force thread you think?..... to talk about rust-buckets?



Kailash Rava said:


> Lol..y do u think that?..
> We want your military to b strong ...


of course you would.... why wouldn't you?..... if you had any control over that matter, you would've said otherwise........ 



Nilgiri said:


> this great Ummah - China alliance that you dream for BD.....while almost every Pakistani on this forum says they want absolutely nothing to do with BD.....whoever is in power.


@*Mohammed Khaled* ..... see what I mean? 
platforms take just days to transfer, brother.... but intention is another issue altogether.... don't just count the platforms only.... they'll sweat over unpredictability, not over the platforms....


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> then what are the Indians doing in BD Air Force thread you think?..... to talk about rust-buckets?
> 
> 
> of course you would.... why wouldn't you?..... if you had any control over that matter, you would've said otherwise........
> 
> 
> @*Mohammed Khaled* ..... see what I mean?
> platforms take just days to transfer, brother.... but intention is another issue altogether.... don't just count the platforms only.... they'll sweat over unpredictability, not over the platforms....


bruh... if you think this is an official govt to govt fight that's goin on in this website... youre mad!

i mean he is talking sense here.... although sometimes he goes over the edge.... we always talk about war with india.. and alliance with china when china will choose pakistan over bangladesh anyday... we haven't been good friends to china or pakistan for the matter tbh.... what else do you expect

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> bruh... if you think this is an official govt to govt fight that's goin on in this website... youre mad!
> 
> i mean he is talking sense here.... although sometimes he goes over the edge.... we always talk about war with india.. and alliance with china when china will choose pakistan over bangladesh anyday... we haven't been good friends to china or pakistan for the matter tbh.... what else do you expect



aren't we all talking about a state decision to buy 8 aircraft?..... without anything happening, we wouldn't be having this discussion.... thats how statecraft is.... it fetches reaction from others.... everyone automatically takes sides in such reactions.... its the reactions that reflect statecraft...

let me give you a perspective..... BAF K-8Ws were flown to BD over Myanmar airspace.... those could've been shipped at Ctg Port..... again, the submarines were shipped on a heavy lift ship; not on own power.... BN training ships went to Port Blair alright, but they also went to Sri Lanka.... this isn't just platform delivery or training exercise; its statecraft; state's intentions come to fruition that way..... 

BD statecraft has become unpredictable to the Indians.... and thats all that panic is all about.... hope I made myself clear to you, brother.....

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> aren't we all talking about a state decision to buy 8 aircraft?..... without anything happening, we wouldn't be having this discussion.... thats how statecraft is.... it fetches reaction from others.... everyone automatically takes sides in such reactions.... its the reactions that reflect statecraft...
> 
> let me give you a perspective..... BAF K-8Ws were flown to BD over Myanmar airspace.... those could've been shipped at Ctg Port..... again, the submarines were shipped on a heavy lift ship; not on own power.... BN training ships went to Port Blair alright, but they also went to Sri Lanka.... this isn't just platform delivery or training exercise; its statecraft; state's intentions come to fruition that way.....
> 
> BD statecraft has become unpredictable to the Indians.... and thats all that panic is all about.... hope I made myself clear to you, brother.....


Understood by why does all this even matters... India should ignore what Bangladesh does using it sovereign right just as how Bangladesh ignores what India does as theirs

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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> India should ignore what Bangladesh does using it sovereign right just as how Bangladesh ignores what India does as theirs



Buddy, you need to add a zero at the end of the 8 for India to even take notice. You are always on default ignore mode when it comes to military...given we have it covered several times over. Few online defence speshulists flamewarring and trolling changes nothing on the ground reality.

India is much more interested in BD economy and politics (given these are in use daily, militaries only very rarely). It would be ideal for BD military and its fans to simply ignore India's military and focus organically growing your security apparatus over time (and ignore those that want to troll you about it by shoving x,y,z in your face out of the blue).

That way you will get a genuine serene confidence. You will also quickly realise its C4I that matters 2 - 3 times more than the end point gear (which 99% of you seem to be focused on all the time).....just like knowledge levels are way more important to an economy than what it physically creates/uses.


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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> Buddy, you need to add a zero at the end of the 8 for India to even take notice. You are always on default ignore mode when it comes to military...given we have it covered several times over. Few online defence speshulists flamewarring and trolling changes nothing on the ground reality.
> 
> India is much more interested in BD economy and politics (given these are in use daily, militaries only very rarely). It would be ideal for BD military and its fans to simply ignore India's military and focus organically growing your security apparatus over time (and ignore those that want to troll you about it by shoving x,y,z in your face out of the blue).
> 
> That way you will get a genuine serene confidence. You will also quickly realise its C4I that matters 2 - 3 times more than the end point gear (which 99% of you seem to be focused on all the time).....just like knowledge levels are way more important to an economy than what it physically creates/uses.


tbh... i am a fine of our armed forces.... if anything i am interested about bangladesh other than food and my village....
with that said.... i dont even care about indian military in the sense of comparing it to ours... which is better or not... or how india poses a military threat on us as some bengalis might believe.... i think india and bangladesh are business partners and it should stay that way... and given the size of india.... i am not surpised by the superior quantity that's required to protect your country.... we're a small country... we require less....

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## TopCat

Nilgiri said:


> Buddy, you need to add a zero at the end of the 8 for India to even take notice. *You are always on default ignore mode when it comes to military...given we have it covered several times over*. Few online defence speshulists flamewarring and trolling changes nothing on the ground reality.
> 
> India is much more interested in BD economy and politics (given these are in use daily, militaries only very rarely). It would be ideal for BD military and its fans to simply ignore India's military and focus organically growing your security apparatus over time (and ignore those that want to troll you about it by shoving x,y,z in your face out of the blue).
> 
> That way you will get a genuine serene confidence. You will also quickly realise its C4I that matters 2 - 3 times more than the end point gear (which 99% of you seem to be focused on all the time).....just like knowledge levels are way more important to an economy than what it physically creates/uses.



Give this advice to your tout Parkhar... He went nuts..

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Understood by why does all this even matters... India should ignore what Bangladesh does using it sovereign right just as how Bangladesh ignores what India does as theirs



well, let me quote from a book by Mr J N Dixit, a veteran Indian diplomat on Sri Lanka..... after Sri Lanka's interactions with Pakistan and China, on 06 July 1987, India sent an official letter to Mr. Athulathmudali, the National Security Minister of Sri Lanka:
"India had taken note of the recent interaction between Sri Lanka on the one hand and Pakistan and China on the other. Sri Lanka should be aware that whatever the results of these interactions, Sri Lanka's unity, integrity and stability ultimately depended on good neighbourly relations with India. There should be no illusion in this regard and Sri Lanka should recognise the realities of regional relationship in a sober manner, in this perspective."
India forced Sri Lanka to sign a treaty in that very month and deployed troops there....

the point is, India will never let its neighbours think that you have any independence to do whatever you like..... this is a reality for BD..... and the fact that BD in the 21st century would not bound by any restrictive thoughts.... and thats a reality for India.... India talks about BD and Indians talk about BD is because of that.... that makes all these discussions here relevant.... the discussions are relevant for the two states as they carry the reflections of their policies and their interactions....

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## asad71

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, let me quote from a book by Mr J N Dixit, a veteran Indian diplomat on Sri Lanka..... after Sri Lanka's interactions with Pakistan and China, on 06 July 1987, India sent an official letter to Mr. Athulathmudali, the National Security Minister of Sri Lanka:
> "India had taken note of the recent interaction between Sri Lanka on the one hand and Pakistan and China on the other. Sri Lanka should be aware that whatever the results of these interactions, Sri Lanka's unity, integrity and stability ultimately depended on good neighbourly relations with India. There should be no illusion in this regard and Sri Lanka should recognise the realities of regional relationship in a sober manner, in this perspective."
> India forced Sri Lanka to sign a treaty in that very month and deployed troops there....
> 
> the point is, India will never let its neighbours think that you have any independence to do whatever you like..... this is a reality for BD..... and the fact that BD in the 21st century would not bound by any restrictive thoughts.... and thats a reality for India.... India talks about BD and Indians talk about BD is because of that.... that makes all these discussions here relevant.... the discussions are relevant for the two states as they carry the reflections of their policies and their interactions....



A nation that disturbs its neighbors must be prepared for insurgencies and internal chaos. A very good example is Bharat.

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## Arthur

Guys, we are far way from the topic here.


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, let me quote from a book by Mr J N Dixit, a veteran Indian diplomat on Sri Lanka..... after Sri Lanka's interactions with Pakistan and China, on 06 July 1987, India sent an official letter to Mr. Athulathmudali, the National Security Minister of Sri Lanka:
> "India had taken note of the recent interaction between Sri Lanka on the one hand and Pakistan and China on the other. Sri Lanka should be aware that whatever the results of these interactions, Sri Lanka's unity, integrity and stability ultimately depended on good neighbourly relations with India. There should be no illusion in this regard and Sri Lanka should recognise the realities of regional relationship in a sober manner, in this perspective."
> India forced Sri Lanka to sign a treaty in that very month and deployed troops there....
> 
> the point is, India will never let its neighbours think that you have any independence to do whatever you like..... this is a reality for BD..... and the fact that BD in the 21st century would not bound by any restrictive thoughts.... and thats a reality for India.... India talks about BD and Indians talk about BD is because of that.... that makes all these discussions here relevant.... the discussions are relevant for the two states as they carry the reflections of their policies and their interactions....


sri lanka has nothing to defend themselves with... no detterence for that matter.... no proper structured armed forces or training for that matter.... bangladesh has them all.... so i don;t see bangladesh facing these problems like what sri lanka, nepal or bhutan faces

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## Russell

Khan saheb said:


> Guys, we are far way from the topic here.


what else is new....every single thread in this subforum is a clusterfcuk

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## Nilgiri

TopCat said:


> Give this advice to your tout Parkhar... He went nuts..



What ....according to who? You? BD is the most sensationalist, sensitive, crybaby bunch in defense community that I have ever seen.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> sri lanka has nothing to defend themselves with... no detterence for that matter.... no proper structured armed forces or training for that matter.... bangladesh has them all.... so i don;t see bangladesh facing these problems like what sri lanka, nepal or bhutan faces


geopolitical reality shapes actions, but does not change geopolitical motives..... PAK and BD are too big to swallow for India, but never too strong to spread influence or subvert.... CHT rebels in BD and Baluch rebels in PAK are some of the overt examples.... there are many more covert ones, which needs not be detailed here...

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> geopolitical reality shapes actions, but does not change geopolitical motives..... PAK and BD are too big to swallow for India, but never too strong to spread influence or subvert.... CHT rebels in BD and Baluch rebels in PAK are some of the overt examples.... there are many more covert ones, which needs not be detailed here...


Anyways. Let move on. Stay on topic... Air Force!

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Anyways. Let move on. Stay on topic... Air Force!



sure it is..... 

Indian military offers are now talk of the town.... let put something on the plate.....

I think if India is really interested in developing military-to-military co-op, they can help BAF develop the Thakurgaon airfield..... India can provide BD with their latest air-search radar in this regard.... other stuff like construction and etc. can be handled by the BAF.....

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> sure it is.....
> 
> Indian military offers are now talk of the town.... let put something on the plate.....
> 
> I think if India is really interested in developing military-to-military co-op, they can help BAF develop the Thakurgaon airfield..... India can provide BD with their latest air-search radar in this regard.... other stuff like construction and etc. can be handled by the BAF.....


I don't think that's going to be a possibility. Anyways how highfrom sea level is Rajshahi


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I don't think that's going to be a possibility. Anyways how highfrom sea level is Rajshahi


not much of height anywhere except the eastern parts of BD.... doesn't that negate the presence of any radar in the rest of the country?..... well, definitely not.... you just have to use what is available.... the Paharkanchanpur radar watches up to the Meghalaya hills, not beyond it.... the Bogra radar watches the north Bengal well.... but still there is the low level thingy..... and GoB is already thinking of activating the Thakurgaon Airport to turn it into a regional hub (with Nepal and Bhutan).... it can be good place to improve BAF radar coverage over the north-western areas....

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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> not much of height anywhere except the eastern parts of BD.... doesn't that negate the presence of any radar in the rest of the country?..... well, definitely not.... you just have to use what is available.... the Paharkanchanpur radar watches up to the Meghalaya hills, not beyond it.... the Bogra radar watches the north Bengal well.... but still there is the low level thingy..... and GoB is already thinking of activating the Thakurgaon Airport to turn it into a regional hub (with Nepal and Bhutan).... it can be good place to improve BAF radar coverage over the north-western areas....



The best I know is - Thakurgaon Airport (IATA: TKR, ICAO: VGSG) currently is no more than a grass-surfaced 6000 ft. long STOL port, it's not even a full fledged airport. It does not have any air services to my knowledge, are there combat aircraft operating from it?

Saidpur Airport (less than 25-30 miles away from Thakurgaon) is a full fledged 8000 ft. long airport (the northernmost we have) and is equidistant from Rangpur and Dinajpur. It is served daily by four domestic air carriers including Biman.

How would Thakurgaon be a better candidate then.

Not challenging your view - I'm really interested to know the reason.

Also Saidpur/Thakurgaon is surrounded by four Indian airports/airbases, Purnea, Bagdogra, Hashimara and Coochbehar, all greater length than 6000 feet except the last one.

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## syed1

Mittens!

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## Michael Corleone

syed1 said:


> View attachment 382746
> Mittens!


wow 6 flying at ones.... training flights yeah?


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> The best I know is - Thakurgaon Airport (IATA: TKR, ICAO: VGSG) currently is no more than a grass-surfaced 6000 ft. long STOL port, it's not even a full fledged airport. It does not have any air services to my knowledge, are there combat aircraft operating from it?
> 
> Saidpur Airport (less than 25-30 miles away from Thakurgaon) is a full fledged 8000 ft. long airport (the northernmost we have) and is equidistant from Rangpur and Dinajpur. It is served daily by four domestic air carriers including Biman.
> 
> How would Thakurgaon be a better candidate then.
> 
> Not challenging your view - I'm really interested to know the reason.
> 
> Also Saidpur/Thakurgaon is surrounded by four Indian airports/airbases, Purnea, Bagdogra, Hashimara and Coochbehar, all greater length than 6000 feet except the last one.


its the GoB plan to open Thakurgaon airport..... it used to be operational, but was closed down when Saidpur became operational.....

to make it operational, it need infrastructure..... and logically the BAF has to get involved when an airport becomes operational..... as for the requirement for radar, I have already mentioned above....

and if there are Indian airports around, does that mean we should not build our airports??.... what sort of logic is that?..... entirety of BD is surrounded by India.... does that mean that BD should not have any airports??.... there are too many weird logic that can be put forward if that is to be taken seriously.... Jessore is too close to Indian border.... so is Sylhet, Syedpur, Lalmonirhat, Rajshahi, Comilla..... Feni is too close to the Indian border.... does that mean the Dhaka-Ctg highway should be over the Bay of Bengal??....


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## syed1

Mohammed Khaled said:


> wow 6 flying at ones.... training flights yeah?


WINTEX 2017 is going on.

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## TopCat

syed1 said:


> View attachment 382766
> 
> 
> 
> WINTEX 2017 is going on.


Looks like an attack formation


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Looks like an attack formation


what is this suppose to be? an arrow? a spitfire formation? A 1-3-2?

can someone upload videos or is there any of this excercise?


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## Russell

snippet from the exercise *last year *-

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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> its the GoB plan to open Thakurgaon airport..... it used to be operational, but was closed down when Saidpur became operational.....
> 
> to make it operational, it need infrastructure..... and logically the BAF has to get involved when an airport becomes operational..... as for the requirement for radar, I have already mentioned above....
> 
> and if there are Indian airports around, does that mean we should not build our airports??.... what sort of logic is that?..... entirety of BD is surrounded by India.... does that mean that BD should not have any airports??.... there are too many weird logic that can be put forward if that is to be taken seriously.... Jessore is too close to Indian border.... so is Sylhet, Syedpur, Lalmonirhat, Rajshahi, Comilla..... Feni is too close to the Indian border.... does that mean the Dhaka-Ctg highway should be over the Bay of Bengal??....



Chillax brother. 

The point I was curious about was that of making Thakurgaon a regional air-hub, you or someone else had mentioned.

BD should have airports of course but the presence of other competing regional air hubs like *Bagdogra Airport*, (IATA: *IXB*, ICAO: *VEBD*) very close to Thakurgaon (maybe less than 60 miles) makes it an interesting proposition.

Bagdogra (Siliguri) is one of the major air hubs in India, serving Darjeeling tourist air-traffic from all of India (even from outside of India via Kolkata and Delhi).

Investing in a military airbase at Thakurgaon is great and you have my support.

However if we are expecting commercial traffic to end up there (even for Darjeeling) that may be a tough sell for a lot of folks. You could only be expecting Darjeeling air-traffic from Dhaka (which Saidpur already serves very well).

Here are some Bagdogra airport videos, it is roughly what CTG was say ten years ago before they improved it.










Here are some from Saidpur ( we have long way to go to compete),

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## Exiled_Soldier

Bilal9 said:


> Investing in a military airbase at Thakurgaon is great and you have my support.



There are some hidden agendas meant to be expressed in subtle manner. Military purpose but wrapped up in civil manner. Ghuraia pechaia eto time nile hoibe

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## Bilal9

Exiled_Soldier said:


> There are some hidden agendas meant to be expressed in subtle manner. Military purpose but wrapped up in civil manner. Ghuraia pechaia eto time nile hoibe



Bussi bussi - afnera ki koisen ami bussi.......

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## 帅的一匹

So J10b doesn't stand a chance?


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## Tehari_Haleem

wanglaokan said:


> So J10b doesn't stand a chance?



 I'm sure it will when it's time to replace our F-7s in next 10 years bro...this particular tender is for Dual Engine/Dual Seat Fighters

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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> So J10b doesn't stand a chance?



Not in this tender. But J-10 or any other smaller chinese fighter will complement these fighters for sure.
As we expected, our airforce will consists of SU-30 and J-10 in next 15/20 years.

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## 帅的一匹

Tehari_Haleem said:


> I'm sure it will when it's time to replace our F-7s in next 10 years bro...this particular tender is for Dual Engine/Dual Seat Fighters


Does BAF interested in FC31?


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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> Does BAF interested in FC31?



Hmm.... depending on the budget. For BD the budget is slim. They are only buying 8 SU-30 this time.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

wanglaokan said:


> So J10b doesn't stand a chance?


it would be interesting to see how J-10B acclimatizes with BD's conditions..... a few demos over here might help some ppl identify bottlenecks....

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## Arthur

wanglaokan said:


> Does BAF interested in FC31?


BAF has Fifth generation fighter acquisition plans. And who would be the ideal supplier for a bang for the buck fifth generation fighters for Bangladesh? 

I wonder!

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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> BAF has Fifth generation fighter acquisition plans. And who would be the ideal supplier for a bang for the buck fifth generation fighters for Bangladesh?
> 
> I wonder!


Do you have source I can read up on? About the 5th gen fighter plan?


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## Arthur

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Do you have source I can read up on? About the 5th gen fighter plan?


The Forces Goal 2030.

But in due time, we will be talking about it, just like we are discussing MRCA tender.

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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> The Forces Goal 2030.
> 
> But in due time, we will be talking about it, just like we are discussing MRCA tender.


We don't even have to contest which jet we will be going for then... unless pak fa is out and our requirements of large fighters like sukhoi turns into stealth requirement hence pak fa... else j31 uncontested


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> We don't even have to contest which jet we will be going for then... unless pak fa is out and our requirements of large fighters like sukhoi turns into stealth requirement hence pak fa... else j31 uncontested



I think that BD airforce of 2030 will be composed of SU-30(4 squadrons)and J-31(6 squadrons).
An airforce of both Russian and Chinese planes would be strategically and technologically advantageous for BD.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> I think that BD airforce of 2030 will be composed of SU-30(4 squadrons)and J-31(6 squadrons).
> An airforce of both Russian and Chinese planes would be strategically and technologically advantageous for BD.


By also means large ground crew training... purchase of more and variety of spares which would have otherwise been common and lots of money for training on maintenance of many kinds of plane on the fleet with lack of commonality


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> By also means large ground crew training... purchase of more and variety of spares which would have otherwise been common and lots of money for training on maintenance of many kinds of plane on the fleet with lack of commonality



Only two fighter planes would be in BD air-force by 2030 in this case. Mig-29s and the J-7s would all have been retired. BD should not buy PAK-FA even if it is offered since India may also get it as well. Better that your
main opponent knows little about your primary fighter.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Only two fighter planes would be in BD air-force by 2030 in this case. Mig-29s and the J-7s would all have been retired. BD should not buy PAK-FA even if it is offered since India may also get it as well. Better that your
> main opponent knows little about your primary fighter.


What about the j-7s that was just bought in 2013... those aren't retiring so fast... nor are the 2006 models

Mig 29 got 2 more overhauls before they're retired... that's 20 years approx.

Funny because we are getting sukhoi jets and you're saying better that your opponents know less about your primary fighter... and why do we always place India as our arch enemy? As long as they don't go North Korea on us I don't see your reason of freaking out so much


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> What about the j-7s that was just bought in 2013... those aren't retiring so fast... nor are the 2006 models
> 
> Mig 29 got 2 more overhauls before they're retired... that's 20 years approx.
> 
> Funny because we are getting sukhoi jets and you're saying better that your opponents know less about your primary fighter... and why do we always place India as our arch enemy? As long as they don't go North Korea on us I don't see your reason of freaking out so much



Mig-29 won't be seeing past 2030 as they would be 30 years old by then.

Maybe the 2013 F-7s will still be around but the 2006 ones can be retired as the airframes would
be pretty old by then.

If J-31 enters BD air-force then it would become the best fighter by a wide-margin and so a real
deterrent for even the most advanced militaries .

Military planning is always based on capability and not current relations. Can anyone forsee the world
of 2030 and beyond?

If BD was planning against Myanmar then 10 squadrons of fighters would be over-kill. It needs
to provide real deterrence to India as well.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

debate on FC-31 is okay as a fifth generation stealth fighter solution.... but a stealth fighter is not likely to give the number strength.... single engine interceptors would play the most vital role.... after the acquisition tender of half-a-sqn of MRCAs, it would be most appropriate to think of the single-engine interceptors.... it is crazy in the 21st century to depend only on F-7s for air defence...

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## Bengal Tiger 71

So BAF going to procure 8 + 4 Su 30?


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Mig-29 won't be seeing past 2030 as they would be 30 years old by then.
> 
> Maybe the 2013 F-7s will still be around but the 2006 ones can be retired as the airframes would
> be pretty old by then.
> 
> If J-31 enters BD air-force then it would become the best fighter by a wide-margin and so a real
> deterrent for even the most advanced militaries .
> 
> Military planning is always based on capability and not current relations. Can anyone forsee the world
> of 2030 and beyond?
> 
> If BD was planning against Myanmar then 10 squadrons of fighters would be over-kill. It needs
> to provide real deterrence to India as well.


now i agree with you again!


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## Sine Nomine

@Bilal9 Any chances of BAF-PAF Exercise in near future...


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## Michael Corleone

قناص said:


> @Bilal9 Any chances of BAF-PAF Exercise in near future...


it would be great to see.... we can learn a lot from each other.... perhaps also adopt each others training curriculum.
royal air force has before adopted some from us as they did from basically every good airforce they had an excercise with...
how much is the minimum flight hours training in fighter jets in pakistan? in US it's 180... bd it's 120... russia from 80 to 130 depending on pilot skills...


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## Sine Nomine

Mohammed Khaled said:


> it would be great to see.... we can learn a lot from each other.... perhaps also adopt each others training curriculum.
> royal air force has before adopted some from us as they did from basically every good airforce they had an excercise with...
> how much is the minimum flight hours training in fighter jets in pakistan? in US it's 180... bd it's 120... russia from 80 to 130 depending on pilot skills...


Depends upon type of Aircraft beinh flown by pilot.
@Oscar sir will shed more light on flight hours for basic and each conversion.


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## Bilal9

قناص said:


> @Bilal9 Any chances of BAF-PAF Exercise in near future...


Not in the near future. But some equipment is already common (except cutting edge) so maybe in the distant future after regime change.


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## rome333

Next month Chinese delegation is coming to discuss the sell of J10B or FC1. Our much desired frigates purchase may be on the cards as well. Lets see.

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## BDforever

rome333 said:


> Next month Chinese delegation is coming to discuss the sell of J10B or FC1. Our much desired frigates purchase may be on the cards as well. Lets see.


coming to sell FC-20 , BD is planning to replace aging F7MB (which has been recently decommissioned), with 14 units including 2 two-seated variant.

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## TopCat

rome333 said:


> Next month Chinese delegation is coming to discuss the sell of J10B or FC1. Our much desired frigates purchase may be on the cards as well. Lets see.


Where is the link?


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## rome333

BDforever said:


> coming to sell FC-20 , BD is planning to replace aging F7MB (which has been recently decommissioned), with 14 units including 2 two-seated variant.


No tender this time. Gov2Gov deal. 14 single seat, 2 dual seat. Procurement in 2018. মাথাই নষ্ট মামা !!!

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## BDforever

rome333 said:


> No tender this time. Gov2Gov deal. 14 single seal, 2 dual seat. Procurement in 2018. মাথাই নষ্ট মামা !!!


12 from Russia, 16 from China and existing 8 = 36 units

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## TopCat

@wanglaokan Seems like J-10 is coming along according to the member.



rome333 said:


> No tender this time. Gov2Gov deal. 14 single seat, 2 dual seat. Procurement in 2018. মাথাই নষ্ট মামা !!!


Where is the source? BD military?


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## Exiled_Soldier

এইটা হলে তো পুরাই মাথা নষ্ট। আমি আমার ট্রোল একান্ট বদলাইয়া বাংলাদেশের পতাকা লাগামু 

মায়ামারের শালারা এখন থেকে আর বেশি আগাইতে সাহস পাবে না। জেএফ১৭ নিয়া বেশি আগায় যাইতে চাইছিল। তার বিপরীতে কি পাইল মিগ৩৫/এসিইউ৩০। ১৬ টা জেএফ১৭ কে ঠান্ডা করতে ওই আটটাই যথেষ্ট। আর চায়নার নতুন বিমান আর আগের মিগ দিয়ে বাংলাদেশ মায়ানমার থেকে আরো বেশি আগায় যাবে  এখন থেকে ওরা বাংলাদেশের সমতুল্য থাকার চেষ্টা করবে। মিং এর বিপরীতে মিং বা শিশুমার, ইয়াক ১৩০ বিপরীতে ইয়াক ১৩০। নইলে খবর আছে

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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> @wanglaokan Seems like J-10 is coming along according to the member.
> 
> 
> Where is the source? BD military?


Very good news! Congratulations!

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## Deino

Found this too ... But how reliable is this ???? 

https://www.facebook.com/Strategica...8693710634463/601071690063329/?type=3&theatre







I'm even more sceptical since MiG-35 - wasn't there just a RFP for a twin-engine type last month - and J-10B are too much overlap in capabilities. A combo of J-10 & JF-17 would be fine just as a combo of MiG-35 and JF-17 but not to nearly medium-weight fighters.

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## Arthur

Deino said:


> Found this too ... But how reliable is this ????
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Strategica...8693710634463/601071690063329/?type=3&theatre
> 
> View attachment 384136
> 
> 
> I'm even more sceptical since MiG-35 - wasn't there just a RFP for a twin-engine type last month - and J-10B are too much overlap in capabilities. A combo of J-10 & JF-17 would be fine just as a combo of MiG-35 and JF-17 but not to nearly medium-weight fighters.


A combination of Su 30 & J 10B is possibility too. The tender asks for an twin engine jet, it can be both mig or a Sukhoi.

Let's consider previous events too. BAF eveluated J10 A as back as a decade ago. And they are also looking for a heavy longrange strike aircraft too (for both AF & Navy) .

A Mig 35, JF 17 combination works for the air force. But it doesn't fit the maritime strike profile that much.

But a combination of Su 30 & J 10 fits both air force & maritime strike profile.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Curious mind wants to know, if we buy SU-30, then can we source spare parts from China?


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## Arthur

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Curious mind wants to know, if we buy SU-30, then can we source spare parts from China?


That's possible I think. But you have to consider if Russia would allow a third party(I.e. China) as spare or maintenance or overhauling source. They might dismiss the warranty that comes under a purchase deal.

And I don't know whether Chinese companies has the necessary license (or if Russia would extend such license) to provide spare & maintenance to third parties other than the PLAAF or PLANAF.

Maybe @wanglaokan @Deino has more knowledge on this issue.


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## Deino

Khan saheb said:


> A combination of Su 30 & J 10B is possibility too. The tender asks for an twin engine jet, it can be both mig or a Sukhoi.
> 
> Let's consider previous events too. BAF eveluated J10 A as back as a decade ago. And they are also looking for a heavy longrange strike aircraft too (for both AF & Navy) .
> 
> A Mig 35, JF 17 combination works for the air force. But it doesn't fit the maritime strike profile that much.
> 
> But a combination of Su 30 & J 10 fits both air force & maritime strike profile.



Agreed, but as far as I know a combo of J-10 and Su-30 is well beyond the budget available.

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## BDforever

Deino said:


> Agreed, but as far as I know a combo of J-10 and Su-30 is well beyond the budget available.


budget is no longer an issue ! !

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> budget is no longer an issue ! !


How?


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## rome333

OrdinaryGenius said:


> How?


Guess geo-politics is heating things up sooner than expected.

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## BDforever

OrdinaryGenius said:


> How?


bd is capable to spend like that.

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## 帅的一匹

Khan saheb said:


> That's possible I think. But you have to consider if Russia would allow a third party(I.e. China) as spare or maintenance or overhauling source. They might dismiss the warranty that comes under a purchase deal.
> 
> And I don't know whether Chinese companies has the necessary license (or if Russia would extend such license) to provide spare & maintenance to third parties other than the PLAAF or PLANAF.
> 
> Maybe @wanglaokan @Deino has more knowledge on this issue.


China can provide spare parts/training for you Su30MKB, As long as Russian don't oppose . We also have overhauling center in China.

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## Avicenna

Will be completely amazed if BAF goes for both Su-30 variant and J-10 variant. 

But I HIGHLY doubt this. Also it would not make much sense. Why such a leap in capability?

If BAF does go for two types, engine commonality will be an issue for the hi-low mix.

In that case Mig-35 and FC-1 with RD-93/33MK makes sense as does J-10 and Su-30 with the AL-31.

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## Michael Corleone

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Curious mind wants to know, if we buy SU-30, then can we source spare parts from China?





Khan saheb said:


> That's possible I think. But you have to consider if Russia would allow a third party(I.e. China) as spare or maintenance or overhauling source. They might dismiss the warranty that comes under a purchase deal.
> 
> And I don't know whether Chinese companies has the necessary license (or if Russia would extend such license) to provide spare & maintenance to third parties other than the PLAAF or PLANAF.
> 
> Maybe @wanglaokan @Deino has more knowledge on this issue.


no you can't do that... no unless you get the chinese reverse engineered copies.....



Deino said:


> Agreed, but as far as I know a combo of J-10 and Su-30 is well beyond the budget available.





OrdinaryGenius said:


> How?


which is why they getting 8 of the bigger jets this time... makes perfect sense.... if the budget allows they can max out at 12... 4 less than a sdr needs in BAF... so 2019-2020... we could see newer orders from russia and possibly china

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## 帅的一匹

Guys you know it's J10A or B coming to BAF?


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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> Guys you know it's J10A or B coming to BAF?


Most likely J10B

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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


> Most likely J10B


Guys, how do you know J10 is coming? Any reliable source?

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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> Any reliable source?

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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


>


Message taken

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## Tehari_Haleem

wanglaokan said:


> Guys, how do you know J10 is coming? Any reliable source?



 Power of deduction Watson, there's only J-10, F-16 and Jas-39 that could realistically replace our single engine fighter force, guess who'll be the front runner going by BAF history ?

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## 帅的一匹

I want to see it in BAF's paint.

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## fatman17

FORCE REPORT: Bangladesh
Bangladesh’s potent and professional air force is increasingly active internationally through participation in UN missions.
report in this months AFM.

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## BDforever

fatman17 said:


> FORCE REPORT: Bangladesh
> Bangladesh’s potent and professional air force is increasingly active internationally through participation in UN missions.
> report in this months AFM.


can u post here ?


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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> I want to see it in BAF's paint.


  china has offered to sell j10B to export customers!


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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> china has offered to sell j10B to export customers!


As J20 is into PLAAF service, there is no reason to hold up J10b's export anymore.

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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> As J20 is into PLAAF service, there is no reason to hold up J10b's export anymore.


could you provide a comparison between jf-17 and j-10// how they stack up and which is better? why china didn't just give j-10 to pakistan with tech transfer and instead made jf-17?


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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> could you provide a comparison between jf-17 and j-10// how they stack up and which is better? why china didn't just give j-10 to pakistan with tech transfer and instead made jf-17?


Wow! It's a tough question to answer! If you really want an answer, Ok~~I think J10b is better in payload, range, maneuver, avionics, aerodynamics, and lower RCS. I'm a strong supporter of PAF going for J10b. Very sad that they have other things in mind. Let us put it in a simple way! If PAF inducts J10b, means JF17 export will die out. JF17 is their backbone project, they have to stick it.

I have knew very long time ago that BAF will jump JF17 and directly buy J10 from China. Cause I know you guys.......national pride.

Am I right Mohammed?

As PAF is going for FC31, they won't mind us put J10b on the shelf.

J10b is my favorite fighter, it beat J20 in my heart.

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## Deino

BDforever said:


> budget is no longer an issue ! !




Care to explain ??


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## BDforever

Deino said:


> Care to explain ??


$240 billion economy @2% defence spending= $4.8 billion Defence budget

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## damiendehorn

BDforever said:


> $240 billion economy @2% defence spending= $4.8 billion Defence budget



@Deino - Well currently were not spending 2% of our GDP on defence (its between 1.2% and 1.6%). Regardless, our GDP is growing @ roughly 7% and defence purchases are paid over multiple years so a deal for J10/Su35 can be afforded easily (unless there is a severe economic downturn).

For example 16 J10b's @ $60m each should cost roughly $1.2bn-$1.6bn. Paid over 15-20 years, would mean paying the supplier just over $107m per year. Su's would like wise be similar in price....at current GDP growth rates easily within budget.

On a sidenote by the end of the contract term 15-20 years, Bangladesh would be $1trn economy....

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## Michael Corleone

damiendehorn said:


> @Deino - Well currently were not spending 2% of our GDP on defence (its between 1.2% and 1.6%). Regardless, our GDP is growing @ roughly 7% and defence purchases are paid over multiple years so a deal for J10/Su35 can be afforded easily (unless there is a severe economic downturn).
> 
> For example 16 J10b's @ $60m each should cost roughly $1.2bn-$1.6bn. Paid over 15-20 years, would mean paying the supplier just over $107m per year. Su's would like wise be similar in price....at current GDP growth rates easily within budget.
> 
> On a sidenote by the end of the contract term 15-20 years, Bangladesh would be $1trn economy....


j10 B cost around 30mil a pop... that's more around the league of 600+millions with other stuffs.... and since china accepts installment pay... it's easy to go by.

NATO recommended budget for a nations military is 4% of their GDP... if india or any neighbor had a reason to be concerned of BD arming itself for war.... our budget would have been 10 bill.... 4% of 240billion

so the military budget (para included) of 5 bill for 2016-2017 is 2% of 240 billion...

hence @BDforever estimates are right

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## BDforever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> hence @bd_4_ever estimates are right


he is different guy

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## damiendehorn

Mohammed Khaled said:


> j10 B cost around 30mil a pop... that's more around the league of 600+millions with other stuffs.... and since china accepts installment pay... it's easy to go by.
> 
> NATO recommended budget for a nations military is 4% of their GDP... if india or any neighbor had a reason to be concerned of BD arming itself for war.... our budget would have been 10 bill.... 4% of 240billion
> 
> so the military budget (para included) of 5 bill for 2016-2017 is 2% of 240 billion...
> 
> hence @bd_4_ever estimates are right



$30m flyaway price is very doubtful, there are various things that need to be considered.

1. $30m+ is the per unit flyaway price for the PLAAF excluding support and access.
2. When a fighter is exported you need to add a portion of the development cost.
3. You then have to add the cost of support.
4. You then add the cost of other weapon system and packages etc.

Dont expect to pay anywhere south of $60m for a system like the j10b.

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## Michael Corleone

damiendehorn said:


> $30m flyaway price is very doubtful, there are various things that need to be considered.
> 
> 1. $30m+ is the per unit flyaway price for the PLAAF excluding support and access.
> 2. When a fighter is exported you need to add a portion of the development cost.
> 3. You then have to add the cost of support.
> 4. You then add the cost of other weapon system and packages etc.
> 
> Dont expect to pay anywhere south of $60m for a system like the j10b.


oh well.... alright! 
let's see how much and what other details are thrown into the internet in a few days


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## 帅的一匹

damiendehorn said:


> $30m flyaway price is very doubtful, there are various things that need to be considered.
> 
> 1. $30m+ is the per unit flyaway price for the PLAAF excluding support and access.
> 2. When a fighter is exported you need to add a portion of the development cost.
> 3. You then have to add the cost of support.
> 4. You then add the cost of other weapon system and packages etc.
> 
> Dont expect to pay anywhere south of $60m for a system like the j10b.


Around 45 millions USD per

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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> Around 45 millions USD per


We will get a discount on top of that for sure.... I dont think we will pay more than 35 million as we already be using existing weapons system.

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## damiendehorn

wanglaokan said:


> Around 45 millions USD per



Let hope your right. That would be great, considering Qatar paid $7bn for 24 rafales ($291m each), india bought 36 rafales for $8bn ($222m each) and Egypt paid god knows what for their 24.

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## TopCat

damiendehorn said:


> Let hope your right. That would be great, considering *Qatar *paid $7bn for 24 rafales ($291m each), *india* bought 36 rafales for $8bn ($222m each) and Egypt paid god knows what for their 24.



These are known milking cow in the world.

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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> Wow! It's a tough question to answer! If you really want an answer, Ok~~I think J10b is better in payload, range, maneuver, avionics, aerodynamics, and lower RCS. I'm a strong supporter of PAF going for J10b. Very sad that they have other things in mind. Let us put it in a simple way! If PAF inducts J10b, means JF17 export will die out. JF17 is their backbone project, they have to stick it.
> 
> I have knew very long time ago that BAF will jump JF17 and directly buy J10 from China. Cause I know you guys.......national pride.
> 
> Am I right Mohammed?
> 
> As PAF is going for FC31, they won't mind us put J10b on the shelf.
> 
> J10b is my favorite fighter, it beat J20 in my heart.


jf-17 was bought up back in 2008 but then we requested for j-10s at that time... china had internal demand to meet and so it didn't lead up anywhere, we settled for f-7BGIs instead... back then jf-17 was new to the market too i believe!?

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## Russell

damiendehorn said:


> Let hope your right. That would be great, considering Qatar paid $7bn for 24 rafales ($291m each), india bought 36 rafales for $8bn ($222m each) and Egypt paid god knows what for their 24.



And the Frenchies initially wanted $12bil from the Indians. I get the Rafale is absolutely brilliant - but, bloody hell.

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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> jf-17 was bought up back in 2008 but then we requested for j-10s at that time... china had internal demand to meet and so it didn't lead up anywhere, we settled for f-7BGIs instead... back then jf-17 was new to the market too i believe!?


With squadrons of J10, BAF can confidently look to its east and even west.

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## Michael Corleone

Russell said:


> And the Frenchies initially wanted $12bil from the Indians. I get the Rafale is absolutely brilliant - but, bloody hell.


the french are "greedy bustards" at least according to the british who condemn their greedyness over rhineland after WW1.


----------



## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Will be completely amazed if BAF goes for both Su-30 variant and J-10 variant.
> 
> But I HIGHLY doubt this. Also it would not make much sense. Why such a leap in capability?
> 
> If BAF does go for two types, engine commonality will be an issue for the hi-low mix.
> 
> In that case Mig-35 and FC-1 with RD-93/33MK makes sense as does J-10 and Su-30 with the AL-31.


Engine commonality isn't an issue in case of an su30 & J10 combination. Both uses Al 31 series enginess from Russia.

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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> Engine commonality isn't an issue in case of an su30 & J10 combination. Both uses Al 31 series enginess from Russia.


just the ideal toys i dreamt one day BAF would play with....


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## damiendehorn

Mohammed Khaled said:


> just the ideal toys i dreamt one day BAF would play with....



Lets hope, its just speculation right now....no gov confermation as of yet.


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## 帅的一匹

damiendehorn said:


> Lets hope, its just speculation right now....no gov confermation as of yet.


Both government want to make the deal low tune, so that Indian won't jump in and promote Tejas.

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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> Both government want to make the deal low tune, so that Indian won't jump in and promote Tejas.


Tejas against j10... i would laugh XD more like against k-8

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## fatman17

BDforever said:


> can u post here ?


When I get it, I will do it

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## BDforever

fatman17 said:


> When I get it, I will do it


can you post few points in here ? i assume you read it already


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## ziaulislam

Mohammed Khaled said:


> jf-17 was bought up back in 2008 but then we requested for j-10s at that time... china had internal demand to meet and so it didn't lead up anywhere, we settled for f-7BGIs instead... back then jf-17 was new to the market too i believe!?


nope, you cant buy a fighter from a country whom you blame for *genocide*(not killing but genocide)
bangladesh will never buy anything from pakistan, the political price is too much for ruling party


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## syed1

WINTEX 2017

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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> nope, you cant buy a fighter from a country whom you blame for *genocide*(not killing but genocide)
> bangladesh will never buy anything from pakistan, the political price is too much for ruling party


in some parts you're correct in others you're wrong.... pakistan is in our official list of arms sellers
ps. bangladesh air force was offered jf-17 by china at a time we asked for j-10...

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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> nope, you cant buy a fighter from a country whom you blame for *genocide*(not killing but genocide)
> bangladesh will never buy anything from pakistan, the political price is too much for ruling party



I'm fairly sure Bangladesh received excess J-6 from PAF inventory as far back as 1991. So your argument 
is invalid.

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## Tehari_Haleem

Avicenna said:


> I'm fairly sure Bangladesh received excess J-6 from PAF inventory as far back as 1991. So your argument
> is invalid.



 We did squeeze some more juice outta those J-6 birds, just like how we could have been flying the recently retired F-7P's or cannibalizing those to keep our own 39 F-7s on the air for next 10 years, if we didn't burn all the possible bridges

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

ziaulislam said:


> nope, you cant buy a fighter from a country whom you blame for *genocide*(not killing but genocide)
> bangladesh will never buy anything from pakistan, the political price is too much for ruling party



those are more like political rhetoric.... even the PM rejected the suggestion from some quarters to cut relations with Pakistan.... continuing diplomatic relationship with Pakistan is one of the key elements of Bangladesh's India policy.... its a priceless bargain, which Bangladesh can't afford to lose, whatever the cost....

on the other hand, in terms of military deals, its just an extension of that diplomatic deal.... if Bangladesh goes forward with a military deal with India, there would be no stopping of similar deals with China, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia and others.... at that time, India would lose their bargain completely (which they have already lost mostly).....

as far as I can think, JF-17 for BAF is more of a real future thing than a dream....


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## ziaulislam

Avicenna said:


> I'm fairly sure Bangladesh received excess J-6 from PAF inventory as far back as 1991. So your argument
> is invalid.



wrong that was a different time, different politics, means that you are absolutely ignorant of current situation in Bangladesh.
those people who were in govt in 1991 have been hung for treason, permanently branded as traitors. decades of brain washing will make the new generation completely anti pakistan



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> those are more like political rhetoric.... even the PM rejected the suggestion from some quarters to cut relations with Pakistan.... continuing diplomatic relationship with Pakistan is one of the key elements of Bangladesh's India policy.... its a priceless bargain, which Bangladesh can't afford to lose, whatever the cost....
> 
> on the other hand, in terms of military deals, its just an extension of that diplomatic deal.... if Bangladesh goes forward with a military deal with India, there would be no stopping of similar deals with China, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia and others.... at that time, India would lose their bargain completely (which they have already lost mostly).....
> 
> as far as I can think, JF-17 for BAF is more of a real future thing than a dream....


wrong
recent Bangladeshi PM is suggesting to apply to UN about Pakistani genocide in 1971

the relation ship between Bangladesh and Pakistan will be and now are no different than almost at war Pakistan and india(who do maintain diplomatic relationship)

This would ensure that current political party will be the only party left in Bangladesh, infact it won uncontested the last election and i expect that to continue, more like in pattern of single party dictatorship.

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## Michael Corleone

if only we could get to convince china in tech transfer to make j-10 in our country for our needs... not necessarily for foreign sales... we requested it around 10 years back, we should try again now that china has j-20 and higher tech to prevent loss in advantage


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

ziaulislam said:


> wrong that was a different time, different politics, means that you are absolutely ignorant of current situation in Bangladesh.
> those people who were in govt in 1991 have been hung for treason, permanently branded as traitors. decades of brain washing will make the new generation completely anti pakistan
> 
> 
> wrong
> recent Bangladeshi PM is suggesting to apply to UN about Pakistani genocide in 1971
> 
> the relation ship between Bangladesh and Pakistan will be and now are no different than almost at war Pakistan and india(who do maintain diplomatic relationship)
> 
> This would ensure that current political party will be the only party left in Bangladesh, infact it won uncontested the last election and i expect that to continue, more like in pattern of single party dictatorship.



well, there's no point arguing about a relationship when it is beneficial for both..... a rift between Bangladesh and Pakistan only helps India.... both Bangladesh and Pakistan know this and have continued military relationship behind the scenes.... Bangladesh has recently acquired some military hardware (plz don't prompt me on this if you don't know) that reflects this.... those who know this, know that Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship (including military relationship) will continue, unlike what JI politicians in both the countries think.... both the countries would never forgo such a huge bargain for the petty interests of JI..... 

remember, this isn't 1971.... there's no point clinging to the notion that India's shadow hangs over Bangladesh.... if you fail to realize this, all your calculations would be wrong....

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, there's no point arguing about a relationship when it is beneficial for both..... a rift between Bangladesh and Pakistan only helps India.... both Bangladesh and Pakistan know this and have continued military relationship behind the scenes.... Bangladesh has recently acquired some military hardware (plz don't prompt me on this if you don't know) that reflects this.... those who know this, know that Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship (including military relationship) will continue, unlike what JI politicians in both the countries think.... both the countries would never forgo such a huge bargain for the petty interests of JI.....
> 
> remember, this isn't 1971.... there's no point clinging to the notion that India's shadow hangs over Bangladesh.... if you fail to realize this, all your calculations would be wrong....


If I remember correctly even at the end of last year pakistans SSG and 1st para commando battalion of bd army excercised together in Pakistan!

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## fatman17

BDforever said:


> can you post few points in here ? i assume you read it already


Actually waiting for my copy

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## Avicenna

a bit off topic but does anyone know when Myanmar will take delivery of its jf-17s?

I am assuming they will get the sd-10a as well.

right now we have some r-27s. But from whatever I've read they are very unreliable. 

I wonder what BAF's next bvr missile will be for the new platform or platforms?


----------



## ~Phoenix~

Mohammed Khaled said:


> egypt buying rafales too? these masri saeedis need load and aid every year to survive yet have the money to spend on rafales?



The package with the French includes a FREMM multi purpose frigate and a huge supply of missiles.

Also add 50 MiG-35s with high presicion pods,Ka-50 and Ka-52K choppers,2 large Mistral Class carriers,current inventory of 200-250 F-16s,a 700 million worth military satellite and much more.
Egypt is just arming itself for another Arab-Israeli war!


Kira.


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## rome333

Funny thing is these arab countries always have very fancy toys and in huge numbers. Ironically they always come short in execution.


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## Michael Corleone

~Phoenix~ said:


> The package with the French includes a FREMM multi purpose frigate and a huge supply of missiles.
> 
> Also add 50 MiG-35s with high presicion pods,Ka-50 and Ka-52K choppers,2 large Mistral Class carriers,current inventory of 200-250 F-16s,a 700 million worth military satellite and much more.
> Egypt is just arming itself for another Arab-Israeli war!
> 
> 
> Kira.





rome333 said:


> Funny thing is these arab countries always have very fancy toys and in huge numbers. Ironically they always come short in execution.


more like they're ready for another *** kicking by the israelis.... jews are clever and smart people... in arab world everyone hates egyptians, because of how dumb and stupid they're... it's surprising they made the pyramids tbh...

and this time... there isn;t good pilots from PAF or BAF for that matter to cover for them in their war... we don't have those kinds of relations anymore. this time they will be signing declaration of surrender



Khan saheb said:


> Some of these were never reassembled & put into service. Still in the crates, in storage the way they were delivered.


why don't the airforce get rid off them through public auction then? or put them to jet conversion training curriculum? i think they're not airworthy?


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## fatman17

Avicenna said:


> a bit off topic but does anyone know when Myanmar will take delivery of its jf-17s?
> 
> I am assuming they will get the sd-10a as well.
> 
> right now we have some r-27s. But from whatever I've read they are very unreliable.
> 
> I wonder what BAF's next bvr missile will be for the new platform or platforms?


Delivery starting in 2017


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## fatman17

~Phoenix~ said:


> The package with the French includes a FREMM multi purpose frigate and a huge supply of missiles.
> 
> Also add 50 MiG-35s with high presicion pods,Ka-50 and Ka-52K choppers,2 large Mistral Class carriers,current inventory of 200-250 F-16s,a 700 million worth military satellite and much more.
> Egypt is just arming itself for another Arab-Israeli war!
> 
> 
> Kira.


Egypt gets FMS grants from US and annual 5B $ gift from KSA. Their economy is failing.

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## ziaulislam

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, there's no point arguing about a relationship when it is beneficial for both..... a rift between Bangladesh and Pakistan only helps India.... both Bangladesh and Pakistan know this and have continued military relationship behind the scenes.... Bangladesh has recently acquired some military hardware (plz don't prompt me on this if you don't know) that reflects this.... those who know this, know that Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship (including military relationship) will continue, unlike what JI politicians in both the countries think.... both the countries would never forgo such a huge bargain for the petty interests of JI.....
> 
> remember, this isn't 1971.... there's no point clinging to the notion that India's shadow hangs over Bangladesh.... if you fail to realize this, all your calculations would be wrong....


honestly, i have never seen such a denial..
just put on the news and listen to your PM, the daughter of Mr Mujeeb ur rehman both used politics to strength their rule


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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> honestly, i have never seen such a denial..
> just put on the news and listen to your PM, the daughter of Mr Mujeeb ur rehman both used politics to strength their rule


Denial is what has led to separation of India into two more states... it's what people of this region are champion of!


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## Arefin007

*Aircraft of Bangladesh Air Force *
List of Aircraft of Bangladesh Air Force
*Man Power*:14,000+
*Total Active Aircraft*:138+
*Total Aircraft Delivered*:200+
*Fighter Aircraft*:50
*Attack Aircraft*:7
*Attack Helicopter*:3+8
*Transport Aircraft*:7
*Unarmed Helicopter*:41
*Trainer Aircraft*:36
*On order*:24 Yak-130
4 C-130B
5 Mi-171sh
*Future Plan*:48 Su-30MK2/F-16 (3 squadron)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_kZ3x8nVb...186_494581547336557_7132321269588632922_n.jpg


----------



## Arefin007

*Combat aircraft
Aircraft Image Origin Series In service*



*MiG-29  *




Russia S 6
UB 2



*F-7 *

 China BG 16
BGI 16
MB 16 


*chang A-5 * 

 China C 10

*Aero L-39 Albatros * 

 Czechoslovakia ZA 7

*Shenyang FT-6 *



China 6




*Trainer Aircraft*
*Nanchang PT-6 * 

 China A 24


*Bell 206 Long Ranger * 

 USA L-2 2
L-4 2


*ssna T-37 Tweet*

 USA B 12


*Transport Aircraft*
*Lockheed C-130 Hercules* 

 USA B 4+4



*Antonov An-32* 

 Ukraine C 3 

*V.I.P. Transport Helicopter*


*Mil Mi-17V-5 * 

 Russia V 2 

*Attack Helicopter*


*Mil Mi-171 * 

 Russia Sh 3+5 

*Helicopter*

*Mil Mi-17 * 

 Russia H 22 


*Bell 212 * 

 USA 13


*Air Defence*

*FM-90 SAM * 






* On Order:*

*5 Mi-171sh * 







http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AsnqnzMYP2Q/U2c17qzm3NI/AAAAAAAAD6E/Ib2CGnnbElo/s1600/Nanchang+PT-6A.jpg
*24 Yak-130 * 








http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gvLtyRLP4...rx1sK1c/s1600/Bangladesh_air_force_A-5III.png
*4 C-130E Hercules * 





 Link: http://www.defencebd.com/p/aircraft-of-bangladesh-air-force.html

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## Michael Corleone

Arefin007 said:


> *Combat aircraft
> Aircraft Image Origin Series In service*
> 
> 
> 
> *MiG-29  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia S 6
> UB 2
> 
> 
> 
> *F-7 *
> 
> China BG 16
> BGI 16
> MB 16
> 
> 
> *chang A-5 *
> 
> China C 10
> 
> *Aero L-39 Albatros *
> 
> Czechoslovakia ZA 7
> 
> *Shenyang FT-6 *
> 
> 
> 
> China 6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trainer Aircraft*
> *Nanchang PT-6 *
> 
> China A 24
> 
> 
> *Bell 206 Long Ranger *
> 
> USA L-2 2
> L-4 2
> 
> 
> *ssna T-37 Tweet*
> 
> USA B 12
> 
> 
> *Transport Aircraft*
> *Lockheed C-130 Hercules*
> 
> USA B 4+4
> 
> 
> 
> *Antonov An-32*
> 
> Ukraine C 3
> 
> *V.I.P. Transport Helicopter*
> 
> 
> *Mil Mi-17V-5 *
> 
> Russia V 2
> 
> *Attack Helicopter*
> 
> 
> *Mil Mi-171 *
> 
> Russia Sh 3+5
> 
> *Helicopter*
> 
> *Mil Mi-17 *
> 
> Russia H 22
> 
> 
> *Bell 212 *
> 
> USA 13
> 
> 
> *Air Defence*
> 
> *FM-90 SAM *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * On Order:*
> 
> *5 Mi-171sh *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *24 Yak-130 *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4 C-130E Hercules *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: http://www.defencebd.com/p/aircraft-of-bangladesh-air-force.html


half of em retired


----------



## ghost250

finally bangladesh airforce has published a tender for the upgradation of mig-29 fighter jet..

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## Michael Corleone

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bd-m...der-new-tender-for-mig-29-smt-upgrade.484614/


tender for mig 29 upgrade: http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1125.pdf

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## Fledgingwings

So ......where does BAF starts with?


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## The Eagle

Avicenna said:


> Who is the moderator of this sub-forum?
> 
> One of my messages was deleted. And I was given a pre warning for de-railing the thread.
> 
> However, there have been subsequent posts not related to the BAF.
> 
> Where is the consistency?





Mohammed Khaled said:


> The moderator is annoying. Keeps deleting many of my post yet keeps other off topic post directed at me.



Why not to report such posts rather than playing drama queen and Victim Card. Next posts of you making accusations without any substance you will be receiving real warning with fraction. Report such posts without quoting back or doing the same and move on.

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## Michael Corleone

The Eagle said:


> Why not to report such posts rather than playing drama queen and Victim Card. Next posts of you making accusations without any substance you will be receiving real warning with fraction. Report such posts without quoting back or doing the same and move on.


Did report the post but to no result and the same continuation!
Submitting up complaints publicly seems to have itched you a bit, but that wasn't intended!


----------



## The Eagle

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Did report the post but to no result and the same continuation!
> Submitting up complaints publicly seems to have itched you a bit, but that wasn't intended!



Not a good way when the one hasn't done proper homework first. Always report such post and move on without quoting back or being itched unnecessarily. Sometimes, choice of words can do wonders that I hope you understand. No further off-topic discussion and carry on with subject in hand.

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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> half of em retired



This one however - is not. 

BAF MSAR AW139

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## Michael Corleone

guys with our pilots doing 120 flight hours a year... if on average each of our migs did 120 a year by now it has done 2040 flight hours... 1980s original mig 29 airframe had a service life of 2500.... by some source that was improved upto 3000.... assuming we have 1000 flight hours left... with further servicing pushing it to 1000 more flight hours... we can push our mig 29 till 2033 max.... or 2025 on average.... with mig 29 servicing cost increasing to the point it doesn't make sense to operate them anymore at this stage of their life,... it's financially more viable to sell and replace those completely with j-10 to form a complete sqd... or buy sukhois which are more reliable and cheaper to maintain.... idk how much but mig 29s with 2000 flight hours costs around 5m each to keep them running smooth and dandy!


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## Avicenna

rome333 said:


> I have received a warning from the moderator named The Eagle that I insulted Pakistan/Pakistani by calling them savages and racist during a tit for tat conservation. Interestingly that thread was all about throwing dirt and I replied when some **** insulted by motherland using abusive words.
> Anyway yesterday the very same moderator deleted my massages implying similar staff. If he really had such a thing that thread, he could have just closed it. Also whenever similar dirty exchanges between Indians and us happens I hardly see any moderator nearby! He is a **** himself and that irritates him, understandable. But two different treatment for similar situations, not buying it.
> Anyway I have decided to leave this forum as I believe it is failing to serve the purpose. I also see many elements of pure Racism persist here from the forum administrators. All the Best for Everybody. This is rome333. THANK YOU.



Hey bro. I would encourage you not to leave. Despite its flaws, this sub forum (and the entire forum as a whole) is a nice gathering place to discuss topics we are all collectively interested in that most folks out there dont care about. So please stay and chime in with your thoughts in the future.

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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> But this is one thing I couldn't disagree with! Why spam all the threads



Anyways lets get back to the discussion. This individual obviously is burning all the bridges with this forum (though I suppose he will lurk and watch from afar henceforth).

Btw bro, have there been any good BAF videos that have been created lately (esp on board/go pro etc)? Please post them here.


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## Homo Sapiens

rome333 said:


> I have received a warning from the moderator named The Eagle that I insulted Pakistan/Pakistani by calling them savages and racist during a tit for tat conservation. Interestingly that thread was all about throwing dirt and I replied when some **** insulted by motherland using abusive words.
> Anyway yesterday the very same moderator deleted my massages implying similar staff. If he really had such a thing that thread, he could have just closed it. Also whenever similar dirty exchanges between Indians and us happens I hardly see any moderator nearby! He is a **** himself and that irritates him, understandable. But two different treatment for similar situations, not buying it.
> Anyway I have decided to leave this forum as I believe it is failing to serve the purpose. I also see many elements of pure Racism persist here from the forum administrators. All the Best for Everybody. This is rome333. THANK YOU.


Despite it's shortcoming and obvious bias,this is a good platform to discuss our defence, economy,foreign policy and interaction with other Bangladeshi members with similar enthusiasm.It will be good delight to us if you not leave this forum entirely.Come back again after some times.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

the Arms Exhibition going on in Dhaka is displaying that Bangladesh Army is in the process of acquiring FM-3000 and FK-3 (HQ-22) SAMs.... also QW-12 MANPADS is there in the list.... Oerlikon 35mm AAA is also there....

the most interesting displays are -
1. a scale model of a JF-17
2. AEW&C shown over a display

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## Nabil365

I want j-10 not jf17!

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Nabil365 said:


> I want j-10 not jf17!


i am fully agree with you. Myanmar already waiting for receive JF 17 & they also want TOT then why BD want to procure JF 17 where as we have better option J 10B. if this is true then it will be a big wrong decision.

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## bd_4_ever

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> the Arms Exhibition going on in Dhaka is displaying that Bangladesh Army is in the process of acquiring FM-3000 and FK-3 (HQ-22) SAMs.... also QW-12 MANPADS is there in the list.... Oerlikon 35mm AAA is also there....
> 
> the most interesting displays are -
> 1. a scale model of a JF-17
> 2. AEW&C shown over a display



Have you visited? Could you upload some photos if you captured?


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> the Arms Exhibition going on in Dhaka is displaying that Bangladesh Army is in the process of acquiring FM-3000 and FK-3 (HQ-22) SAMs.... also QW-12 MANPADS is there in the list.... Oerlikon 35mm AAA is also there....
> 
> the most interesting displays are -
> 1. a scale model of a JF-17
> 2. AEW&C shown over a display


Does weapons manufacturers advert in Bangladesh in these kind of exhibitions?
Could you post some pics?
It will be stupid if we go for jf-17 without tot. Like fucking hedious decision ever.


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## Major 13625

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> the Arms Exhibition going on in Dhaka is displaying that Bangladesh Army is in the process of acquiring FM-3000 and FK-3 (HQ-22) SAMs.... also QW-12 MANPADS is there in the list.... Oerlikon 35mm AAA is also there....
> 
> the most interesting displays are -
> 1. a scale model of a JF-17
> 2. AEW&C shown over a display


plz post some photo


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## Michael Corleone

Here is the pic

https://m.facebook.com/groups/19349...p_level_post_id.265193693928200&__tn__=*s#_=_

As much I don't want jf-17... you know what would be funny?

Bd getting jf-17 with tot instead of Burma... 
double blow to India and Myanmar lol

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## Major 13625

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Here is the pic
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/193498051097765?view=permalink&id=265193693928200&_ft_=qid.6400719565613339705:mf_story_key.-47966230915219436:top_level_post_id.265193693928200&__tn__=*s#_=_
> 
> As much I don't want jf-17... you know what would be funny?
> 
> Bd getting jf-17 with tot instead of Burma...
> double blow to India and Myanmar lol


Bro r u sure? i thought we r getting j 10b.


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## Michael Corleone

Major 13625 said:


> Bro r u sure? i thought we r getting j 10b.


I wasn't sure either. But look... got the mig 29 there in pic... pt-6 too
Who knows maybe the Chinese convinced us to get jf-17 instead with possibility to build it in home in future!? I seriously hope it's j-10 still.

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## Major 13625

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I wasn't sure either. But look... got the mig 29 there in pic... pt-6 too
> Who knows maybe the Chinese convinced us to get jf-17 instead with possibility to build it in home in future!? I seriously hope it's j-10 still.


I also hope it will be j 10b. but nai mamar chite kana mama valo? if j 10 never comes than it will good with jf 17


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## Michael Corleone

Major 13625 said:


> I also hope it will be j 10b. but nai mamar chite kana mama valo? if j 10 never comes than it will good with jf 17


If it's jf-17 without tot. I swear these defence planners are fucking losers. And 2030 defence goal is just another rant liKe digital Bangladesh.


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## Major 13625

Mohammed Khaled said:


> If it's jf-17 without tot. I swear these defence planners are fucking losers. And 2030 defence goal is just another rant liKe digital Bangladesh.


we might getting su 30 which India operates. wise defense planners must have to put another Chinese aircraft for any kind of future conflict. jf 17 block 3 is a good option but with out tot it will dead horse. Agree with u. we must wait and see


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## Michael Corleone

Major 13625 said:


> we might getting su 30 which India operates. wise defense planners must have to put another Chinese aircraft for any kind of future conflict. jf 17 block 3 is a good option but with out tot it will dead horse. Agree with u. we must wait and see


Most probably we will get the tot if the airplane is being planed. PAC is busy meeting pakistans demands... it certainly can't attain to bulk order from other countries and have to create package with higher price to sell.


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## ghost250

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Most probably we will get the tot if the airplane is being planed. PAC is busy meeting pakistans demands... it certainly can't attain to bulk order from other countries and have to create package with higher price to sell.


now,um waiting to see the reactns of pakisthani members...


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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> now,um waiting to see the reactns of pakisthani members...


They won't be shit to us if you don't be shit to them. If they come to sting for no reason... then you can roast em if you can!

Pakistan and china... bd all benefits if this happens too... then I see Indians pushing tejas for Burmese people.


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## Major 13625

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Most probably we will get the tot if the airplane is being planed. PAC is busy meeting pakistans demands... it certainly can't attain to bulk order from other countries and have to create package with higher price to sell.


Bro i have read once that BAC is working on a jet prototype that would fly in 2021. Instead of indigenous jet jf 17b3 with tot might do very well


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## bd_4_ever

We wont get JF-17, atleast not under the present govt. Get over it people. J-10 is much better and suited to BAF.


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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> We wont get JF-17, atleast not under the present govt. Get over it people. J-10 is much better and suited to BAF.


what's that model doing in dhaka military exhibition? does bangladesh allow foreign weapons seller to demonstrate their product?

i would be really happy if we get j-10


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## Nilgiri

J-10, JF-17, J-10, JF-17.....on and on it goes....

Maybe BAF figured it can earn some much needed revenue from this revolving door of its enthusiasts lol....by keeping them guessing....and then boom...some really limited purchase with no ToT in the end (as usual).

Poor SOB's the lot of ya. Some of you already invested so much into saying the JF-17 is less agile, crap, blah blah (just because Myanmar getting them obv)...its almost like a win-win for everyone else no matter what is finally picked by this utter farce that is BD military/govt....if anything is picked at all beyond the Su-30 (and has even that finally been officially confirmed/finalised/signed ?)


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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> J-10, JF-17, J-10, JF-17.....on and on it goes....
> 
> Maybe BAF figured it can earn some much needed revenue from this revolving door of its enthusiasts lol....by keeping them guessing....and then boom...some really limited purchase with no ToT in the end (as usual).
> 
> Poor SOB's the lot of ya. Some of you already invested so much into saying the JF-17 is less agile, crap, blah blah (just because Myanmar getting them obv)...its almost like a win-win for everyone else no matter what is finally picked by this utter farce that is BD military/govt....if anything is picked at all beyond the Su-30 (and has even that finally been officially confirmed/finalised/signed ?)


i will still say jf-17 is not upto the mark... if something it's more like a remodeled f-7....and not because it's pakistani, oh no!


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> i will still say jf-17 is not upto the mark... if something it's more like a remodeled f-7....and not because it's pakistani, oh no!



Then why has it even entered the scenario? Is the J-10 production line closed or something?

I know China can probably pump out JF-17 CKD/SKD for BD assembly (along lines of PAC which now PDF members claim has moved to near full manufacturing past the engine), but has BD even put in an official number of how many they are looking for? Because it (local assembly) would make little to no sense if its just like 1 squadron (because thats probably what China could churn out itself for the cheapest cost).

Also tell me, has Su-30 been officially signed...for 12 aircraft?


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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> Then why has it even entered the scenario? Is the J-10 production line closed or something?
> 
> I know China can probably pump out JF-17 CKD/SKD for BD assembly (along lines of PAC which now PDF members claim has moved to near full manufacturing past the engine), but has BD even put in an official number of how many they are looking for? Because it (local assembly) would make little to no sense if its just like 1 squadron (because thats probably what China could churn out itself for the cheapest cost).
> 
> Also tell me, has Su-30 been officially signed...for 12 aircraft?


first news spread about chinese delegations coming to bd for j-10 sales... bdmilitary post the rumor of pk requesting chinese to block off j-10 sales and kaboom... we are here....

pk does make the whole aircraft themselves now sans engine.... china has moved most of the productions to pk with prototype only still developed and flown in chengdu....
and i don't know how it's reasonable for china to allocate a production line for manufacturing just 16 fighters for us in their country either with no other foreign customers in sight....

it seems to me this is all just guessing game with words jumping around from peoples mouth.... i would still place my bet on j-10 provided we are getting the sukhois..... otherwise it just doesnt make sense


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## Zibago

Nilgiri said:


> Then why has it even entered the scenario? Is the J-10 production line closed or something?
> 
> I know China can probably pump out JF-17 CKD/SKD for BD assembly (along lines of PAC which now PDF members claim has moved to near full manufacturing past the engine), but has BD even put in an official number of how many they are looking for? Because it (local assembly) would make little to no sense if its just like 1 squadron (because thats probably what China could churn out itself for the cheapest cost).
> 
> Also tell me, has Su-30 been officially signed...for 12 aircraft?


Am i the only one who thinks BD will go for L-15 instead of Jf-17?


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> first news spread about chinese delegations coming to bd for j-10 sales... bdmilitary post the rumor of pk requesting chinese to block off j-10 sales and kaboom... we are here....
> 
> pk does make the whole aircraft themselves now sans engine.... china has moved most of the productions to pk with prototype only still developed and flown in chengdu....
> and i don't know how it's reasonable for china to allocate a production line for manufacturing just 16 fighters for us in their country either with no other foreign customers in sight....
> 
> it seems to me this is all just guessing game with words jumping around from peoples mouth.... i would still place my bet on j-10 provided we are getting the sukhois..... otherwise it just doesnt make sense



OK so you are saying 16 is the requirement on top of the 12 SU-30 (and can you tell me if Su-30 has been signed)?

Was Mig-35 also looked at regarding this 16? Or it has to be single engine fighter? I mean whats wrong by doing it by weight class?

Has Chinese local production of J-10 stopped?

It says on wiki that 400 were produced so far and about 264 are in operation....so I'm guessing the difference are chinese reserves/immediate export on order.

Couldn't the 16 thus potentially come out of this remainder? It would make for quicker delivery.

I think Chinese were expecting a lot more sales....but I am not up to date on the J-10 B (supposed export - only) program....if its continued (open) or scrapped or what....regarding the production line.


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## Avicenna

Zibago said:


> Am i the only one who thinks BD will go for L-15 instead of Jf-17?



So how did you come to this conclusion?


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## Nilgiri

Zibago said:


> Am i the only one who thinks BD will go for L-15 instead of Jf-17?



I doubt it....given they have the Yak-130 assigned in the role already.

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## Zibago

Nilgiri said:


> I doubt it....given they have the Yak-130 assigned in the role already.


Will Fake Hasina really kill her years of anti Pakistan image by purchasing something that directly results in funding Pakistan,s military?
I dont think so 
Maybe she will go for J-10 but it costs more

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## Nilgiri

Zibago said:


> Will Fake Hasina really kill her years of anti Pakistan image by purchasing something that directly results in funding Pakistan,s military?
> I dont think so
> Maybe she will go for J-10 but it costs more



BD military/govt chain is really questionable. There are endless rumor mills and competing paranoia at this early on stage (because you are talking about massive amount of enthusiasts per actual realised defense item on ground compared to most other militaries).

They even supposedly leaked some draft defense MOU with India.....like WTF. So yeah everything with enough salt.

Even with the Su-30 I will wait for the deal to be signed and the ink to dry before I take it into consideration.

As for JF-17, yup I would have next to no faith in that happening for BD....given what you stated and also Myanmar getting it (they are annoyed enough as it is that Myanmar also got Yak-130).

J-10 pricier sure....but at lease some semblance of reality given there seems to be spare stocks of them sitting around in the first place....so 16 should be no biggie....esp with some generous chinese loan (as usual) to help.

But for time being even that is just speculation now....just like if suddenly it comes they are looking at reserve stock F-16 (though unlikely given NATO system footprint is very small in BD military) etc...

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Nilgiri said:


> As for JF-17, yup I would have next to no faith in that happening for BD....



we thought an early leak would make it easier for you swallow the pill....
too bad that its not working on you.... hate to feel its gonna be tough for you once it happens....
we hope you won't complain to your Uncle Trump once something like that materializes....

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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> OK so you are saying 16 is the requirement on top of the 12 SU-30 (and can you tell me if Su-30 has been signed)?
> 
> Was Mig-35 also looked at regarding this 16? Or it has to be single engine fighter? I mean whats wrong by doing it by weight class?
> 
> Has Chinese local production of J-10 stopped?
> 
> It says on wiki that 400 were produced so far and about 264 are in operation....so I'm guessing the difference are chinese reserves/immediate export on order.
> 
> Couldn't the 16 thus potentially come out of this remainder? It would make for quicker delivery.
> 
> I think Chinese were expecting a lot more sales....but I am not up to date on the J-10 B (supposed export - only) program....if its continued (open) or scrapped or what....regarding the production line.


16 we need, to replace those f-7 mbs.... i believe we have 12 or 14 of them now because they crashed....
j-10 is a medium class fighter... mig 35, i really don;t know maybe because it makes more sense to have a plane with same engine... su-30 and j-10 than two different... mig 35 and su-30... and count the existing mig -29 on top of that... yes RD-33 but they're still the 1st gen version on our mig-29

no, j-10 production didn;t stop

idk... maybe the difference is for export... maybe it;s not... but then... we want planes that were manufactured no earlier than January of this year...

j-10 B is the more advanced version of the plane which wasn;t cleared for export until recently.... so yeah!

china seems to be focusing to replace j-10B with j-31... but then again... i would rather hop in a j-10 than a j31 because of concerns with it's range and aerodynamic inefficiencies....

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## Zibago

Nilgiri said:


> BD military/govt chain is really questionable. There are endless rumor mills and competing paranoia at this early on stage (because you are talking about massive amount of enthusiasts per actual realised defense item on ground compared to most other militaries).
> 
> They even supposedly leaked some draft defense MOU with India.....like WTF. So yeah everything with enough salt.
> 
> Even with the Su-30 I will wait for the deal to be signed and the ink to dry before I take it into consideration.
> 
> As for JF-17, yup I would have next to no faith in that happening for BD....given what you stated and also Myanmar getting it (they are annoyed enough as it is that Myanmar also got Yak-130).
> 
> J-10 pricier sure....but at lease some semblance of reality given there seems to be spare stocks of them sitting around in the first place....so 16 should be no biggie....esp with some generous chinese loan (as usual) to help.
> 
> But for time being even that is just speculation now....just like if suddenly it comes they are looking at reserve stock F-16 (though unlikely given NATO system footprint is very small in BD military) etc...


From what i observed following their political events they have a tussle between Hadsina and ARMY and their ARMY has sympathies with opposition parties so yeah we cant day anything with 100% certainity when govt is at war with its institutions and SU,30 costs even more than j10 and has a higher operational cost so i would put a big no on it that leaves us with only jf17 and j10
I personally dont think Myanmar having a deal for jf17 will be a major issue but i think she will avoid it be ause of the Pakistani element only maybe if govg changes we may see positive change but for the time being i only see MOU,s over stuff that wont be bought in near future with politics being biggest reason
On f16,s i dont think getting them would be that easy it will take time and will cost them a hefty amount

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## Michael Corleone

Zibago said:


> Will Fake Hasina really kill her years of anti Pakistan image by purchasing something that directly results in funding Pakistan,s military?
> I dont think so
> Maybe she will go for J-10 but it costs more


calm titas... we got tank upgrade kits from paksitan. a few years back... yes when she was in power....


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## Zibago

So realistic option for BD is j10 in small numbers

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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> calm titas... we got tank upgrade kits from paksitan. a few years back... yes when she was in power....



Link? I thought those were from China.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> we want planes that were manufactured no earlier than January of this year...



Oh ok....its listed in the requirement somewhere it has to be pretty much brand new?



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> we thought an early leak would make it easier for you swallow the pill....
> too bad that its not working on you.... hate to feel its gonna be tough for you once it happens....
> we hope you won't complain to your Uncle Trump once something like that materializes....



Like I said, all kinds of things are "leaked" and never materialise in BD. A very poor strike rate, just like your cricket team .

Whatever you acquire, previously leaked or not, means next to nothing, given:

a) the number (so low!), thus low starting capability

b) lack of dedicated C4I network, degrades the puny capability further

c) we have the vice in a much more important area , the capability never mattered in first place 



Zibago said:


> On f16,s i dont think getting them would be that easy it will take time and will cost them a hefty amount



Yah what I am saying is that the BD military rumor mill will probably churn it out at some point ....its just my observation so far.


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## Michael Corleone

does bd even having a plan to introduce AWACS?



Nilgiri said:


> Link? I thought those were from China.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh ok....its listed in the requirement somewhere it has to be pretty much brand new?
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, all kinds of things are "leaked" and never materialise in BD. A very poor strike rate, just like your cricket team .
> 
> Whatever you acquire, previously leaked or not, means next to nothing, given:
> 
> a) the number (so low!), thus low starting capability
> 
> b) lack of dedicated C4I network, degrades the puny capability further
> 
> c) we have the vice in a much more important area , the capability never mattered in first place
> 
> 
> 
> Yah what I am saying is that the BD military rumor mill will probably churn it out at some point ....its just my observation so far.


yeah... that's compulsory...
i really dont have a source atm... but the t62 g i guess? those were upgraded with pakistani fire control and fire damage/NBC protection suit....


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> i really dont have a source atm... but the t62 g i guess? those were upgraded with pakistani fire control and fire damage/NBC protection suit....



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type-69-mk-ii-g-main-battle-tank.17482/

_The Type 69 Mk. II G is a rebuilt Type 69 II with modern armaments and combat systems supplied by China.

All Bangladesh Army Type 59/69/79 MBTs are being upgraded to this new standard at present locally at the Armys Heavy Workshop facility, which is capable of building and modernising tanks, armoured vehicles and artillery systems.
_

It is what is said in other forums too.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> does bd even having a plan to introduce AWACS?



Anything on forces plan 2030 regarding it?


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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type-69-mk-ii-g-main-battle-tank.17482/
> 
> _The Type 69 Mk. II G is a rebuilt Type 69 II with modern armaments and combat systems supplied by China.
> 
> All Bangladesh Army Type 59/69/79 MBTs are being upgraded to this new standard at present locally at the Armys Heavy Workshop facility, which is capable of building and modernising tanks, armoured vehicles and artillery systems.
> _
> 
> It is what is said in other forums too.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything on forces plan 2030 regarding it?


i believe at least half of them are upgraded from pakistani kits... the caretaker govt even paid for it... there has been post in this website... but no further infos



Nilgiri said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type-69-mk-ii-g-main-battle-tank.17482/
> 
> _The Type 69 Mk. II G is a rebuilt Type 69 II with modern armaments and combat systems supplied by China.
> 
> All Bangladesh Army Type 59/69/79 MBTs are being upgraded to this new standard at present locally at the Armys Heavy Workshop facility, which is capable of building and modernising tanks, armoured vehicles and artillery systems.
> _
> 
> It is what is said in other forums too.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything on forces plan 2030 regarding it?


nah don;t think so...


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> i believe at least half of them are upgraded from pakistani kits... the caretaker govt even paid for it... there has been post in this website... but no further infos



No idea about it tbh, the info is so hazy and sketchy like many parts of BD military. Besides now you are saying its caretaker govt, so if it is true its not a stretch (esp if simply allowing follow on from previous BNP). The real haseena juice started only after she took full control and had more of her clique in the right military positions.


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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> No idea about it tbh, the info is so hazy and sketchy like many parts of BD military. Besides now you are saying its caretaker govt, so if it is true its not a stretch (esp if simply allowing follow on from previous BNP). The real haseena juice started only after she took full control and had more of her clique in the right military positions.


i mean the care takers payed for it... that's also when we got the assault rifle manufacturing plant started... the kits arrived during hasina's reign....


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## bd_4_ever

Zibago said:


> From what i observed following their political events they have a tussle between Hadsina and ARMY and their ARMY has sympathies with opposition parties so yeah we cant day anything with 100% certainity when govt is at war with its institutions and SU,30 costs even more than j10 and has a higher operational cost so i would put a big no on it that leaves us with only jf17 and j10



That is partially true. Historically Army has been a bit BNP-leaning, due to the legacy of Ziaur Rahman. As a result of which, you would notice that Hasina makes a substantial amount of effort to please the military. Massive upgrades, procurement, benefits etc.. things that have never materialized during Khaleda Zia. As a result, Hasina has managed to keep the military relatively quiet. There is a political reason behind such massive spending and that is to ensure military does not act against her.



> I personally dont think Myanmar having a deal for jf17 will be a major issue but i think she will avoid it be ause of the Pakistani element only maybe if govg changes we may see positive change but for the time being i only see MOU,s over stuff that wont be bought in near future with politics being biggest reason



I highly doubt this govt. will buy JF-17. Not saying its a bad plane but J-10/20 is better. Would fit our doctrine of 'look-China' policy. Unless this govt. changes, defence relations with Pakistan would be at minimal. But this is politics and everyone changes colors within the blink of an eye. I would not be surprised if she buys JF-17 for whatever unknown reason.

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## The Eagle

rome333 said:


> I have received a warning from the moderator named The Eagle that I insulted Pakistan/Pakistani by calling them savages and racist during a tit for tat conservation. Interestingly that thread was all about throwing dirt and I replied when some **** insulted by motherland using abusive words.
> Anyway yesterday the very same moderator deleted my massages implying similar staff. If he really had such a thing that thread, he could have just closed it. Also whenever similar dirty exchanges between Indians and us happens I hardly see any moderator nearby! He is a **** himself and that irritates him, understandable. But two different treatment for similar situations, not buying it.
> Anyway I have decided to leave this forum as I believe it is failing to serve the purpose. I also see many elements of pure Racism persist here from the forum administrators. All the Best for Everybody. This is rome333. THANK YOU.



You are responsible for your offense and one wrong wouldn't make other right. Rest about your language in this post, let me remind you politely first that don't ever use such language when quoting me. 

You do that again and see the action and still, I am ignoring this for last time that you may correct yourself rather than playing a victim card. You use abusive and inappropriate language against others and yet justify the same as you did that in a reply so you think that is plausible, NO. I could have taken action against you for this but still, as a courtesy, leaving you with a chance to correct yourself. 

If you find any post in violation, report the same without quoting back and move on. The one who looses the arguments, stoop to such level of conversation by insulting others now it is up-to you how you take part in debate and conversations. 

Thanks

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Nilgiri said:


> Like I said, all kinds of things are "leaked" and never materialise in BD. A very poor strike rate, just like your cricket team .



see, we know where we are..... and its not in our habit to inflate things that is not a reality.... we do have our limitations, which we don't portray as our strong points, and we aim to rectify those.... we simply can't afford to portray ourselves like a "balloon state", e.g. India.... we don't claim for things that we are not....

the difference between Bangladesh and its ungainly weak neighbour is that everything here counts, whereas a percentage of things count over there.... the people in that large state are unable to understand how it feels to have everything count on your side.... and on the other hand, they are on the receiving end of that.... even a small fishing trawler from this side near its other neighbour on the other side gives them sleepless nights..... they always have to think of string of pearls, string of laddu, or whatever.... thats all because pearls/laddu everything counts here.... anything and everything is able to scare the big ungainly weak neighbour.... the things that were "supposed" to happen, but didn't happen - these were to feed into your imagination and also into your false sense of security (that it doesn't exist or not gonna happen)....

the secret here for us is that never kill someone who's always afraid of you.....

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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> see, we know where we are..... and its not in our habit to inflate things that is not a reality.... we do have our limitations, which we don't portray as our strong points, and we aim to rectify those.... we simply can't afford to portray ourselves like a "balloon state", e.g. India.... we don't claim for things that we are not....
> 
> the difference between Bangladesh and its ungainly weak neighbour is that everything here counts, whereas a percentage of things count over there.... the people in that large state are unable to understand how it feels to have everything count on your side.... and on the other hand, they are on the receiving end of that.... even a small fishing trawler from this side near its other neighbour on the other side gives them sleepless nights..... they always have to think of string of pearls, string of laddu, or whatever.... thats all because pearls/laddu everything counts here.... anything and everything is able to scare the big ungainly weak neighbour.... the things that were "supposed" to happen, but didn't happen - these were to feed into your imagination and also into your false sense of security (that it doesn't exist or not gonna happen)....
> 
> the secret here for us is that never kill someone who's always afraid of you.....



Well said Sir - well said.

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## ziaulislam

First jf-17 not happening, we are ready to sell, its BD who will not buy.
Second, no country is giving you TOT unless you buy above 100s. Even than its mostly Assembly. Look at su 30 deal for example

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## ziaulislam

China will be a bit hesitant selling it top of the line fighters like J 10s plus finances, cost is twice that of jf-17 but still jf 17 not happening in current govt

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Nilgiri said:


> it needs a few spankings which we administer when required.  But its a physical trauma victim from birth, so we go easy.....dont worry (but still discipline is needed, what to do?)


don't wish for so early.... 
its coming in your way..... be patient.... he he

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## 帅的一匹

FC20 is coming to BD for sure

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## Gandh brandi

MiG-35 for us. I'm sure of it now. Mexico likely to procure Russian MiG-35. Says nothing to do with Trump

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Sybaris Caeser said:


> MiG-35 for us. I'm sure of it now. Mexico procuring Russian MiG-35. Says nothing to do with Trump



there was supposed to be no trouble on that side of the ocean!!..... something seriously went wrong for the World Policeman.... oh, thats what people call "a decline"..... 



wanglaokan said:


> FC20 is coming to BD for sure


plz give them (you know whom I'm talking about) a break!!
they have enough already..... FC-20.... and then JF-17.... they can't take it amymore!!


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## syed1

Future 
Integrated ADS of BAF which includes AEW&C

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## Michael Corleone

Sybaris Caeser said:


> MiG-35 for us. I'm sure of it now. Mexico likely to procure Russian MiG-35. Says nothing to do with Trump


not happening.... bet?



syed1 said:


> View attachment 386718
> View attachment 386717
> 
> 
> Future
> Integrated ADS of BAF which includes AEW&C


we dont have AEW&C rn yeah? that airbus that we ordered... possible use of that ?


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## Nilgiri

Mohammed Khaled said:


> we dont have AEW&C rn yeah? that airbus that we ordered... possible use of that ?



What airbus that you ordered?


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## Flynn Swagmire

Nilgiri said:


> What airbus that you ordered?


Just one C-295W...

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## Nilgiri

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Just one C-295W...



That will always be CASA to me 

Official role is troop transport or VIP transport right now?

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## Flynn Swagmire

Nilgiri said:


> That will always be CASA to me
> 
> Official role is troop transport or VIP transport right now?


For UN mission I think...

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## Arefin007

there is an aew&c version of c295w fitted with aesa radar


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## syed1

Mohammed Khaled said:


> not happening.... bet?
> 
> 
> we dont have AEW&C rn yeah? that airbus that we ordered... possible use of that ?





I clearly said "future integrated ADS of BAF." So obviously a lot of things shown here are for illustrations. We will get them or something similiar to that in the future.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Nilgiri said:


> That will always be CASA to me
> 
> Official role is troop transport or VIP transport right now?



don't worry.... the AEW&C will be another deal.... you'll know in due time....


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## syed1

*Irkut Su-30 Jets On Bangladesh Radar, Seeks India’s Help With Service, Maintenance*
Defenseworld.net Exclusive
05:10 AM, March 23, 2017
2417 views




Malaysian Su-30MKM fighter at LIMA'17
- A +
Russia’s Su-30SM jets made by Irkut Corp are on the procurement radar of Bangladesh which has put out a request for information (RFI) to buy eight multi-role fighter jets with an option of four more planes for its air force.

“We are seeking information about the Su-30 and other planes”, Md Humayun Kabir, Defence Advisor in the Bangladesh High Commission, Kuala Lumpur told Defenseworld.net after his meeting with Irkut Corp executives at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aviation (LIMA) exhibition yesterday.

“Since India is a big operator of Su-30 jets, we may need the help of India with service and maintenance should the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) select the Russian plane”, Hymayun Kabir said adding that the procurement process had just begun and he would not like to say which other aircraft manufacturers have been approached or are in contention to supply aircraft to the BAF.

He said in his meeting with Irkut executives he asked if there would be synergy between the YAK-130 combat/trainer planes bought by the BAF in the past and the Su-30SM jets. The Irkut executives told him that the YAK-130 could train its pilots to fly the Su-30SM jets as the latter were designed to train pilots to fly the advanced Su-30s.

The Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP) has issued an RFI issued an in early March this year detailing the type of aircraft it needs. According to reports, the aircraft should be a twin-engine design, with each powerplant providing at least 5,500 kg in dry thrust and more than 8,000 kg with afterburn.

It must have a minimum of eight hardpoints and a minimum payload of 5,000 kg, according to the tender.

The new fighters must provide a platform for anti-surface, maritime and offensive counter-air operations.

The government wants the fighter to be equipped with an electronically-scanned array radar with an air-to-air range and air-to-surface range of 150 km and 50 km, respectively.

The fighter must also be equipped with an integrated electronic warfare (EW) and electronic countermeasures (ECCM) suite; infrared search and track (IRST) system with a target tracking range of at least 50 km; helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system with cueing; head-up display (HUD) and modern glass cockpit.

The BAF is seeking a complete package comprising of the aircraft, maintenance and training package, and a set of air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions. The aircraft are to be delivered in two batches, with each comprising of four aircraft. The second batch must be delivered 18-24 months after the first.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/18...s_Help_With_Service__Maintenance#.WNd0jDzWPv4


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## bigbossman



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## syed1

Model of FC 1 in armed forces hardware show 2017

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## Flynn Swagmire

syed1 said:


> View attachment 386796
> View attachment 386797
> 
> 
> 
> Model of FC 1 in armed forces hardware show 2017


So, we are going for JF-17/FC-1! Not J-10!

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## bigbossman

OrdinaryGenius said:


> So, we are going for JF-17/FC-1! Not J-10!


no..this is only for show. This was given as a gift. BAF has no plan to procure jf-17.


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## Flynn Swagmire

bigbossman said:


> no..this is only for show. This was given as a gift. BAF has no plan to procure jf-17.


Lets wait and see...


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## syed1

OrdinaryGenius said:


> So, we are going for JF-17/FC-1! Not J-10!




It's just a model. noting more, nothing less. If BAF really had a plan to show off FC 1 model as future procurement than we would've seen BAF roundel on this model's tail.


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## Major 13625

BAL will not go for jf 17s, its just politics before SHW visiting India to make them agree in some issues. BAF might go for j 10b and it will be su 30 for MRCA, mig 35 would be a good choice but delivery wont be possible before 2019 and BAF wont wait so such. so j 10b and su 30.

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## khanasifm

Baf opponent has selected JF and may go in big numbers compared to baf which has total of 2-3 fighter /fighter bomber Sqn chances are slim but you never know Su-30 looks like replacing mig-29 and not f7s and a5s , not sure if a5s are operational ??


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## Major 13625

khanasifm said:


> Baf opponent has selected JF and may go in big numbers compared to baf which has total of 2-3 fighter /fighter bomber Sqn chances are slim but you never know Su-30 looks like replacing mig-29 and not f7s and a5s , not sure if a5s are operational ??


su 30s are not replacing migs as BAF is going to upgrade those migs. a5s are not operational and BAF is going to replace its aging fleet of f7s by j 10s


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## Michael Corleone

we aren;t going for jf-17... if we did, we would have chosen mig 35....


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## tarpitz

damiendehorn said:


> Let hope your right. That would be great, considering Qatar paid $7bn for 24 rafales ($291m each), india bought 36 rafales for $8bn ($222m each) and Egypt paid god knows what for their 24.


Myanmar spent $ 620 m for 12 JF 17 (almost $ 52m each) although the cost of a single plane is just around $30m. So if BD consider J 10, you will have to pay not less than $100m for each bird I guess.


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## Arthur

tarpitz said:


> Myanmar spent $ 620 m for 12 JF 17 (almost $ 52m each) although the cost of a single plane is just around $30m. So if BD consider J 10, you will have to pay not less than $100m for each bird I guess.


Myanmar Deal also includes local assembly. That's not the case for J 10.

Generally the cost also includes training, spares and weapon systems.

Bangladesh won't be paying somewhat more than 70 -80 million per unit (weapons, spare, training included).

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## Michael Corleone

tarpitz said:


> Myanmar spent $ 620 m for 12 JF 17 (almost $ 52m each) although the cost of a single plane is just around $30m. So if BD consider J 10, you will have to pay not less than $100m for each bird I guess.


myanmar is getting that at those price probably because of the talks with tot that's on the table too

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## TopCat

tarpitz said:


> Myanmar spent $ 620 m for 12 JF 17 (almost $ 52m each) although the cost of a single plane is just around $30m. So if BD consider J 10, you will have to pay not less than $100m for each bird I guess.



$620 million for 12 JF... do you have a link?


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> $620 million for 12 JF... do you have a link?


sounds like sukhoi territory to me tbh.

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## tarpitz

Mohammed Khaled said:


> sounds like sukhoi territory to me tbh.


Yep. The cost of JF 17 is just around $30m. But if you consider armaments, pilot trainings, flight simulator, ground facilities and spare parts, the cost of a new type of aircraft normally goes up.


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## Michael Corleone

tarpitz said:


> Yep. The cost of JF 17 is just around $30m. But if you consider armaments, pilot trainings, flight simulator, ground facilities and spare parts, the cost of a new type of aircraft normally goes up.


then dont you think getting some sukhois for that money would have been much better... or y'all could have got the assembly/production plant of f-7 when it shut down.... it was offered to us....


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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> then dont you think getting some sukhois for that money would have been much better... or y'all could have got the assembly/production plant of f-7 when it shut down.... it was offered to us....


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> then dont you think getting some sukhois for that money would have been much better... or y'all could have got the assembly/production plant of f-7 when it shut down.... it was offered to us....



well, do you think if Myanmar bought Sukhoi, there could be Pakistan in this discussion?.... no....
the issue is, selling JF-17 to Myanmar has a much bigger political benefit for India and the USA... that way, there can be an argument that BAF shouldn't go for JF-17/FC-1.... 

remember, India is quite happy with BAF going for Russian jets rather than Chinese/Pak jets.... 

politics decides sources of platforms....

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, do you think if Myanmar bought Sukhoi, there could be Pakistan in this discussion?.... no....
> the issue is, selling JF-17 to Myanmar has a much bigger political benefit for India and the USA... that way, there can be an argument that BAF shouldn't go for JF-17/FC-1....
> 
> remember, India is quite happy with BAF going for Russian jets rather than Chinese/Pak jets....
> 
> politics decides sources of platforms....


nah nah nah.... it's a hypothetical question i asked him bro... read it again... it doesn't make sense for jf-17 to cost as much as sukhoi 30 without tot.... tot is definitely involved in this deal... from knockdown kits or not...

and bd goes china route so many times even if it causes pelvic cramps for the indians....


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> nah nah nah.... it's a hypothetical question i asked him bro... read it again... it doesn't make sense for jf-17 to cost as much as sukhoi 30 without tot.... tot is definitely involved in this deal... from knockdown kits or not...
> 
> and bd goes china route so many times even if it causes pelvic cramps for the indians....



ha ha.... its never the cost, buddy.... 
its politics.... always....


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> ha ha.... its never the cost, buddy....
> its politics.... always....


ofc it is.... but then myanmar isnt a significant player in the region... it doesnt matter who they get their purchase from.... for us though... different story


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> ofc it is.... but then myanmar isnt a significant player in the region... it doesnt matter who they get their purchase from.... for us though... different story



thats exactly the point.... the issue is not Myanmar.... 
the issue is who introduced JF-17 to Myanmar?..... are these the same people who didn't like newly-bought BAF aircraft flying from China to BD over Myanmar?.... and are these the same people who sparked off ethnic cleansing in Rakhaine after killing some Myanmar police members?


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## 帅的一匹



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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> ofc it is.... but then myanmar isnt a significant player in the region... it doesnt matter who they get their purchase from.... for us though... different story



these are the developments from the last one week..... see, where Myanmar is....

*India steps up supply of military equipment to Myanmar to counter China*
Mar 24, 2017
Steadily cranking up military ties with Myanmar as part of the overall policy to counter China's strategic inroads in the region, India is now also going to export lightweight torpedoes to the country.

India is already providing rocket launchers, mortars, rifles, radars, night-vision devices, Gypsies, bailey bridges, communication and Inmarsat sets as well as road construction equipment like dozers, tippers and soil compacters to the Myanmarese armed forces.

The export documents for the $37.9 million deal with Myanmar for the indigenously developed torpedoes, in turn, were presented to finance-cum-defence minister Arun Jaitley at function here on Friday.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...mar-to-counter-china/articleshow/57815200.cms


*Military drill carries China’s message for Myanmar peace *
2017/3/30
China launched a military drill near its border with Myanmar aimed at "testing the troops' capabilities in rapid maneuver, precise destruction, vertical blockade, and joint strikes" on Tuesday, the Xinhua News Agency reported. Carried out amid intensive clashes between Myanmar government troops and ethnic armed forces, the exercise has demonstrated China's determination and will to safeguard its border security.
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1040256.shtml

now, think about it.... where does JF-17 stand here?..... who wants JF-17 on which side?

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## ziaulislam

Khan saheb said:


> Myanmar Deal also includes local assembly. That's not the case for J 10.
> 
> Generally the cost also includes training, spares and weapon systems.
> 
> Bangladesh won't be paying somewhat more than 70 -80 million per unit (weapons, spare, training included).


Doesn't inculde local Assembly
Somehow people confuse the fly away price with export price
J-10 would cost with training and support atleast 70-80 million nearly 70% more than thunder and 80-100% less than rafal, almost same as sukhoi and more expensive than mig29

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## ziaulislam

Cost all dependent upon sub systems. An aesa radar with strong EW alone will cost More than the whole airframe


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> these are the developments from the last one week..... see, where Myanmar is....
> 
> *India steps up supply of military equipment to Myanmar to counter China*
> Mar 24, 2017
> Steadily cranking up military ties with Myanmar as part of the overall policy to counter China's strategic inroads in the region, India is now also going to export lightweight torpedoes to the country.
> 
> India is already providing rocket launchers, mortars, rifles, radars, night-vision devices, Gypsies, bailey bridges, communication and Inmarsat sets as well as road construction equipment like dozers, tippers and soil compacters to the Myanmarese armed forces.
> 
> The export documents for the $37.9 million deal with Myanmar for the indigenously developed torpedoes, in turn, were presented to finance-cum-defence minister Arun Jaitley at function here on Friday.
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...mar-to-counter-china/articleshow/57815200.cms
> 
> 
> *Military drill carries China’s message for Myanmar peace *
> 2017/3/30
> China launched a military drill near its border with Myanmar aimed at "testing the troops' capabilities in rapid maneuver, precise destruction, vertical blockade, and joint strikes" on Tuesday, the Xinhua News Agency reported. Carried out amid intensive clashes between Myanmar government troops and ethnic armed forces, the exercise has demonstrated China's determination and will to safeguard its border security.
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1040256.shtml
> 
> now, think about it.... where does JF-17 stand here?..... who wants JF-17 on which side?


india knows... militarily and now economically too... bangladesh is more or less under china's influence.... so the new player in town is their only option to counter china... while burma doesnt want to upset china because it too has chinese assistance.... it's playing pretty chill nowadays and will jump boats for sure depending on the conditions.



ziaulislam said:


> Doesn't inculde local Assembly
> Somewho yoy people confuse the fly away price with export price
> J-10 would cost with training and support atleast 70-80 million nearly 70% more than thunder and 80-100% less than rafale, almost same as sukhoi and more expensive than mig


but then a j-10 is a different class of fighter... on par with mig 35... but not on the same class as a sukhoi.... so j-10s cost really speaks for the things you get with it... it's not overpriced at all... reasonable


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## tntcfive

dgdp issued a tender for 4×radar for upgrading mig-29 B .which will be aesa.


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## Arthur

Tender issued for new Radar for Mig 29

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## ghost250



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## masud



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## TopCat

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 388875


Alhamdulillah...

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

great to know that air surveillance of Bangladesh airspace is almost complete as far as ground-based radars are concerned.... 

now we should start thinking of airborne radar coverage for some early warning and control....

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## monitor

A very encouraging news coming we are going to roll out FN-16 Eagles man portable and vehicle mounted low altitudes air defense missile from Bangladesh ordinance factory in July.

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## The Ronin

nice


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## Bilal9

monitor said:


> View attachment 388904
> View attachment 388903
> A very encouraging news coming we are going to roll out FN-16 Eagles man portable and vehicle mounted low altitudes air defense missile from Bangladesh ordinance factory in July.



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-army.168816/page-249#post-9340589

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## 帅的一匹

Just a moment ago I saw a Chinese source that BAF will induct 50 units of FC20/J10b, the first round of negotiation between BAF and CAC had finished. BAF has no interests in Jf17.

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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> Just a moment ago I saw a Chinese source that BAF will induct 50 units of FC20/J10b, the first round of negotiation between BAF and CAC had finished. BAF has no interests in Jf17.


You killing me bro...

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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> You killing me bro...


https://mil.sina.cn/sd/2017-04-06/detail-ifyeceza1393050.d.html?vt=4&pos=24&HTTPS=1
It says China will offer excellent discount in order to reach a 50 units package deal of FC20 with BAF.

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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> https://mil.sina.cn/sd/2017-04-06/detail-ifyeceza1393050.d.html?vt=4&pos=24&HTTPS=1
> It says China will offer excellent discount in order to reach a 50 units package deal of FC20 with BAF.



I know we are going to get the same price as the PLAF. It had been always like that.
50 is a huge number. Indians will be shut permanently. 48 could be the exact number. 3 squadron.

J-10B got the AESA radar right?

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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> I know we are going to get the same price as the PLAF. It had been always like that.
> 50 is a huge number. Indians will be shut permanently. 48 could be the exact number. 3 squadron.


With 50units of FC20, BAF is a kicking *** airforce in the sub-continent. It shows the high level of bilateral relationship between China and BD.

2 squadrons of FC20 will replace the J7 fleet in BAF.



TopCat said:


> I know we are going to get the same price as the PLAF. It had been always like that.
> 50 is a huge number. Indians will be shut permanently. 48 could be the exact number. 3 squadron.
> 
> J-10B got the AESA radar right?


Maybe PESA. But I'm sure its a good one, same type of radar with PLAAF J10b's.

It will go with Russian Al31 series 3 engine with Max 13.5 tons of wet thrust, with WS10b replaceable! Weapon package including PL10E and SD10A.

The source is from Huitong, a famous and reliable Chinese military expert.

A strong signal of China and BD join hands to deter India's aggression and bully in the subcontinent.

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## Russell

50? Can't be...bloody hell.


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## 帅的一匹

With Pakistan at west flank, BD at east flank and China at North flank, we can keep India at bay.



Russell said:


> 50? Can't be...bloody hell.


Excellent discount says everything.

I don't have exact number, but FC20 goes to BAF for sure. The number will be big this time.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

wanglaokan said:


> With Pakistan at west flank, BD at east flank and China at North flank, we can keep India at bay.
> 
> 
> Excellent discount says everything.
> 
> I don't have exact number, but FC20 goes to BAF for sure. The number will be big this time.

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## masud

Don,t worry *our neighbour*, we are still under your controll........
and we will use this only for peaceful purposes............................

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## Major 13625

wanglaokan said:


> Just a moment ago I saw a Chinese source that BAF will induct 50 units of FC20/J10b, the first round of negotiation between BAF and CAC had finished. BAF has no interests in Jf17.


yea u r right i have also seen about it from other sources

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## Russell

Major 13625 said:


> yea u r right i have also seen about it from other sources


post them!

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## Major 13625

wanglaokan said:


> With 50units of FC20, BAF is a kicking *** airforce in the sub-continent. It shows the high level of bilateral relationship between China and BD.
> 
> 2 squadrons of FC20 will replace the J7 fleet in BAF.
> 
> 
> Maybe PESA. But I'm sure its a good one, same type of radar with PLAAF J10b's.
> 
> It will go with Russian Al31 series 3 engine with Max 13.5 tons of wet thrust, with WS10b replaceable! Weapon package including PL10E and SD10A.
> 
> The source is from Huitong, a famous and reliable Chinese military expert.
> 
> A strong signal of China and BD join hands to deter India's aggression and bully in the subcontinent.


m not sure but as much as i know su 30 and j 10 uses same engines?



Russell said:


> post them!


have seen them in BD military but i cant post them as the confidential rules sorry bro.



Major 13625 said:


> m not sure but as much as i know su 30 and j 10 uses same engines?
> 
> 
> have seen them in BD military but i cant post them as the confidential rules sorry bro.


The following updates on BAF:


BAF has selected J-10B to replace existing F-7MB after negotiations with the Chinese delegation that arrived recently in Dhaka
7 more jet trainers will be procured to replace the L-39ZA - Possibly more K-8Ws will arrive at the shortest possible time
RAT-31DL radar arrived in Bangladesh. Now one unit is operational in Barisal.



TopCat said:


> You killing me bro...


Sina military editor: In order to better readers for a variety of military content, to meet the reader's different reading needs, to discuss the domestic and international strategic trends, Sina military exclusive launch of "deep military" section, the depth of the military news behind the hidden situation, Facing the complex military strategic environment, welcome attention.

We have talked about Pakistan's business interests from the hope that China will not provide to the Bangladesh FC-20 / J-10B fighter. Military experts huitong pointed out that although Bangladesh and Pakistan are China's traditional friendly countries and weapons market, but in fact there is a deep history between the two countries resentment. Bangladesh was part of Pakistan, but the territory was completely separated by India, separated by nearly 2,000 kilometers on both sides, for a variety of reasons to Bangladesh in 1971 chose independence, although ultimately rely on the support of the Indian army to obtain an independent war victory, but Bangladesh Has accused Pakistan of killing hundreds of thousands of Bengal people. So the Bangladeshi Air Force on the purchase of Pakistan's Xiaolong fighters bear a negative attitude, and look to all aspects of performance better J-10B fighter.
Or export to Bangladesh! F-10B excellent performance
25 sheets
Or export to Bangladesh! F-10B excellent performance

Some time ago the news that a delegation of China Aviation Technology is about to go to Dhaka, ready to very favorable prices to the Bangladesh Air Force, including 50 FC-20 and / or Xiaolong fighters plus a defense package of procurement plans.

According to the latest military website in Bangladesh, the Bangladesh Air Force has decided to purchase J-10B fighter, to replace the old J-7BM. It is reported that the decision was made by the Bangladeshi Air Force after negotiations with a delegation that had previously arrived in Dhaka. Bangladesh military website last month reported that the Bangladeshi Air Force intends to purchase up to 50 FC-20 and / or Xiaolong fighters, and this latest report shows Xiaolong fighters have been out.

If the successful contract, which will be J-10B fighter aircraft / FC-20 Raptors series aircraft for the first time export, but also in the flight into the fly following FT-5, F-7 series, and Xiaolong fighter series after the military exports to obtain another A major breakthrough. F-10B fighter aircraft in 2009 first flight, belonging to the three generations of semi-aircraft, is the J-10A improved, and its engine intake with a new design, from rectangular to oval. The maximum takeoff weight of the aircraft up to 19 tons, is a medium-sized fighters, carrying capacity of 6 tons to 8 tons, combat radius of about 1000 km, the flight speed of up to 1-1.5 Mach, compared with the J -10A Lower nose to the pilot's vision more open, in the flat round head of the installation of the diameter of about 1 meter of active phased array radar, the cabin outside the increase in electronic interference and search tracking equipment, electronic information system performance significantly improved.

Military experts huitong introduced to the three generations as a fighter, the Bangladesh Air Force J-10B fighter with its advanced airborne passive phased array radar, powerful AL-31FN Series3 engine, with the new PL-10E / SD-10A air bomb, Will be the neighboring Myanmar Air Force ordered Xiaolong fighter / Block II (mechanical scanning pulse Doppler radar with PL-5E / SD-10A) three generations of fighters to maintain a comparative advantage, while the performance can also be ordered with the Indian Air Force is the same Three generations of gust fighter (passive phased array radar with MICA) to contend, is expected to F-10B fighter aircraft will play a significant increase in the effectiveness of the combat effectiveness of the Bangladesh Air Force, the Bangladesh air force with all day and night precision strike, Anti-air suppression and other capabilities.

The report also said the Bangladeshi Air Force would purchase seven jet trainers to replace the old L-39ZA. The trainer is probably the K-8W produced by Zhonghonghong, and five K-8Ws are currently serving in the Bangladesh Air Force. From the reality to see the J-10B fighter's exit is happy, but Pakistan is certainly some unhappy, how to comfort is that we need to consider the issue. (Author's signature: heyday military)

The purpose of this article is to convey more information, does not mean that Ben Wang agree with their views and their authenticity. Where the copyright notice of this work, all copyright belongs to Sina, where the author of the copyright, the original author or publisher of the original, without the authority of this site or author may not be reproduced, excerpts or use other means to use the above works.

Sina military: the most military fans preferred military portal!

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## masud



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## syed1



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## ziaulislam

masud said:


> View attachment 389174
> View attachment 389175


typical inferiority complex
how come it matters to us what Bangladesh does
they are at other side of world
if any, Bangladesh getting weapons help us, coz new enemy for india
anyway congrats for hasina to for abling to steer and fool who bangladeshi population for hr own goals of dictator ship, last elections were shame as she won uncontested, this would be like long dictatorship


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## ziaulislam

no reason why we gifted f-6s and f-7s lol


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## Arthur

ziaulislam said:


> typical inferiority complex
> how come it matters to us what Bangladesh does
> they are at other side of world
> if any, Bangladesh getting weapons help us, coz new enemy for india
> anyway congrats for hasina to for abling to steer and fool who bangladeshi population for hr own goals of dictator ship, last elections were shame as she won uncontested, this would be like long dictatorship


It's a Chinese report, from a Chinese source. So nothing to do with us. If you have any complaints or anything to say contact mil.sina.cn . period.

@Russell bhai don't respond. It only help them to derail the discusson.

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## ghost250

syed1 said:


> View attachment 389195
> View attachment 389196


??????????????????...is it a "wildcat"...??


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## Russell

F-7BGI 'Thundercat'

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## Flynn Swagmire

^^^উপরের জিয়া মিয়ার পুস্ত দেখিয়া গাইতে মন চাইলঃ

এসব দেখি কানার হাটবাজার...

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## Arthur

wanglaokan said:


> With 50units of FC20, BAF is a kicking *** airforce in the sub-continent. It shows the high level of bilateral relationship between China and BD.
> 
> 2 squadrons of FC20 will replace the J7 fleet in BAF.
> 
> 
> Maybe PESA. But I'm sure its a good one, same type of radar with PLAAF J10b's.
> 
> It will go with Russian Al31 series 3 engine with Max 13.5 tons of wet thrust, with WS10b replaceable! Weapon package including PL10E and SD10A.
> 
> The source is from Huitong, a famous and reliable Chinese military expert.


An excellent addition to BAF arsenal. With 32 F 7G/GI & 50 J 10B, 12 Su 30 by 2021; BAF will kick *** off of any misadventure.
I think eventually the number will grow upto as much as 100 units, when time comes to retire the rest of the F 7's.



wanglaokan said:


> A strong signal of China and BD join hands to deter India's aggression and bully in the subcontinent.





masud said:


> Don,t worry *our neighbour*, we are still under your controll........
> and we will use this only for peaceful purposes............................


Other than giving nightmares to the bully? 
Yeah,all for peaceful purposes!!

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## asad71

*ERJ-145 AEW&CS for BAF?*

During the Armed Forces Defence Hardware Exhibition 2017 one poster showed the BAF Air Defence Network. There was a Airborne early warning and control aircraft on the picture. The aircraft is the Embraer E-99 manufactured in Brazil. The aircraft is actually based on the ERJ-145 operated by our local airline Novoair. Anyway it gives hope that the Bangladesh Air Force will induct AEW&CS aircraft in the future.

_source - facebook_

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202970979551624&set=gm.319016941851913&type=3


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## Blue Marlin

asad71 said:


> *ERJ-145 AEW&CS for BAF?*
> 
> During the Armed Forces Defence Hardware Exhibition 2017 one poster showed the BAF Air Defence Network. There was a Airborne early warning and control aircraft on the picture. The aircraft is the Embraer E-99 manufactured in Brazil. The aircraft is actually based on the ERJ-145 operated by our local airline Novoair. Anyway it gives hope that the Bangladesh Air Force will induct AEW&CS aircraft in the future.
> 
> _source - facebook_


if thats the case then expect it have an indian radar and suite.


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## Avicenna

Huitong is an authority. If it's on his website it is definelty at least somewhat credible. Frankly I am astounded! If true, 50 or so J-10B is a leap in capability!

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## Russell

Avicenna said:


> Huitong is an authority. If it's on his website it is definelty at least somewhat credible. Frankly I am astounded! If true, 50 or so J-10B is a leap in capability!


That's why I was thrown...20-24 over the next 5 years or whatever...fine.

But, 50 

Then again - it is in line with some of stated goals of the Armed Forces

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## Flynn Swagmire

Avicenna said:


> Huitong is an authority. If it's on his website it is definelty at least somewhat credible. Frankly I am astounded! If true, 50 or so J-10B is a leap in capability!


ভাই লিংক হপে লিংক?


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## UKBengali

50 J-10Bs would completely transform the air-picture over the Indian NE. If true, the BD airforce by 2021 would be strong enough to take on the whole of the Indian air-force based in the region.

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## Avicenna

OrdinaryGenius said:


> ভাই লিংক হপে লিংক?


Can't read Bengali Bhai. What are you saying?

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## Avicenna

Avicenna said:


> Can't read Bengali Bhai. What are you saying?




Also if BAF is buying the J-10 why bother upgrading the old Mig-29s? Unless the other part of the plan is to buy the 8 Mig-35s. But that doesn't make any sense either to buy the Mig-35 and J-10.


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## 帅的一匹

FC20A will come in batches, the ultimate number will be at least 48 to 50 units.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Avicenna said:


> Can't read Bengali Bhai. What are you saying?





Avicenna said:


> Also if BAF is buying the J-10 why bother upgrading the old Mig-29s? Unless the other part of the plan is to buy the 8 Mig-35s. But that doesn't make any sense either to buy the Mig-35 and J-10.



Well, I was asking for the link where you found Bangladesh is going to buy ~50 J10. Anyway, I found it...

And I can't understand, why the hell Bangladesh Airforce is not retireing MiGs...


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## TopCat

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Well, I was asking for the link where you found Bangladesh is going to buy ~50 J10. Anyway, I found it...
> 
> And I can't understand, why the hell Bangladesh Airforce is not retireing MiGs...


Why should they retire Migs when they have some hours left?


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## Flynn Swagmire

TopCat said:


> Why should they retire Migs when they have some hours left?


Well, I dont find investing on MiGs is valuable anymore. Just get J-10s.

Thats my personal opinion. So it doesn't matter...

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## dy1022



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## Arthur

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Well, I was asking for the link where you found Bangladesh is going to buy ~50 J10. Anyway, I found it...
> 
> And I can't understand, why the hell Bangladesh Airforce is not retireing MiGs...





OrdinaryGenius said:


> Well, I dont find investing on MiGs is valuable anymore. Just get J-10s.
> 
> Thats my personal opinion. So it doesn't matter...


Mig 29 has a much more important role in BAF other then mere air policing. It gives our pilots valuable experience with the fighter, thus enhancing their fighting abilities against it.
Reason? you know that.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Khan saheb said:


> Mig 29 in BAF has a much more iimportant role in BAF other then mere air policing. It gives our pilots valuable experience with the fighter, thus enhancing their fighting abilities against it.
> Reason? you know that.


Owww, now I got it. Thanks bro. 

Our military guys are clever...

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## dy1022



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## bdslph

guys any news on buying air refueling planes as we will need 2 or 3 of this as we are expanding


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## TopCat

bdslph said:


> guys any news on buying air refueling planes as we will need 2 or 3 of this as we are expanding

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## Major 13625

bdslph said:


> guys any news on buying air refueling planes as we will need 2 or 3 of this as we are expanding


After inducting these planes AWACS and refueling aircraft will also come

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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> FC20A will come in batches, the ultimate number will be at least 48 to 50 units.


are you sure ? is it confirmed ?


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## 帅的一匹

90%

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## Avicenna

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Firstly its just a rumor, although a credible one, as per Huitong's website. 

Secondly, I would be in favor of such a purchase only if it comes with significant discounts. Otherwise i dont think Bangladesh can or should allocate such a large amount towards such a buy.

Its a win win though i guess if it does go through. Bangladesh gets a 4th gen platform in the class of the F-16. And also the ability to eventually equip it with the next generation of Chinese AAM such as the PL-10, SD-10, and others as they come along. The Chinese win because this will finally be the first export order for the J-10 which may entice others to buy the J-10 in the future. 

Politically, I would be very happy it this J-10 and K-8W deal went through. I STRONGLY want better relations with China for Bangladesh. If Bangaldesh must choose between India and China (and this is a GROSS simplification) I believe China must be the choice. Keep relations cordial and friendly with India of course. But I dont think there is any comparison in the trajectories of the future of the two nations.

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## bd_4_ever

50 from China?

আমার এত খুশি লাগে কিযেরলাই?!

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## Flynn Swagmire

bd_4_ever said:


> 50 from China?
> 
> আমার এত খুশি লাগে কিযেরলাই?!


Its not official yet. So, we should keep calm...

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## Avicenna

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Its not official yet. So, we should keep calm...



Keep calm and Bengali on.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Avicenna said:


> Keep calm and Bengali on.


Luuul


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## bdslph

correct me if i am wrong the J10B cost around 40 to 50 million each or whats the price
and also if ever 50 ac they will give a good discount and friendly price to BD but i dont think it will be that cheap still


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## UKBengali

bdslph said:


> correct me if i am wrong the J10B cost around 40 to 50 million each or whats the price
> and also if ever 50 ac they will give a good discount and friendly price to BD but i dont think it will be that cheap still



Say 50 million per plane, then 2.5 billion for 50.
China can allow BD to pay in installments say over
5 years, then cost is affordable.

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## Russell

UKBengali said:


> Say 50 million per plane, then 2.5 billion for 50.
> China can allow BD to pay in installments say over
> 5 years, then cost is affordable.


If something like this does happen...it'll be over a duration longer than 5 years.

We want the Russians to deliver 8 jets in 24-36 months....the Chinese aren't going to deliver 50 in 5 years.

8 years...I can see that happening.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Say 50 million per plane, then 2.5 billion for 50.
> China can allow BD to pay in installments say over
> 5 years, then cost is affordable.


it wont be more than 35 million for sure.


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## dy1022

TopCat said:


> it wont be more than 35 million for sure.




depends on different weapon packages, sensors, radar, fire control, Electrics, EW, IRST,HUD,etc...

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## Major 13625

India is going to offer $500 million LoC to purchase Russian Jet
প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার সফরে ভারত থেকে ৫০০ কোটি ঋণ পাওয়ার কথা। আর সেই অর্থ দিয়েই নাকি বাংলাদেশ কিনবে মিগ-৩৫ যুদ্ধবিমান। এছাড়া মিগ-২৯এস ফাইটার জেটের কিছু অংশও কেনা হবে ওই টাকায়। বিশেষজ্ঞদের মতে, রাশিয়ান বিমান কেনার জন্য ভারতের অর্থ সাহায্য আদতে ঢাকা, নয়াদিল্লি ও মস্কোর মধ্যে পারস্পরিক সহযোগিতার বার্তা দিচ্ছে।

চারদিনের সফরে শুক্রবারই ভারতে এসেছেন শেখ হাসিনা। ‘ইন্ডিয়ান ডিফেন্স নিউজ’-এ প্রকাশিত তথ্য অনুযায়ী, ভারতের সঙ্গে ২৫ বছরের প্রতিরক্ষা চুক্তি স্বাক্ষর করতে আগ্রহী নন হাসিনা। কারণ বিরোধীরা তাকে সবসময় ‘ভারতের হাতের পুতুল’ বলে আখ্যা দিয়ে থাকে। ঠিক যেমন ভারত ও রাশিয়ার সঙ্গে প্রতিরক্ষা চুক্তি রয়েছে আফগানিস্তানের সঙ্গে। তেমনই চুক্তির অফার দেওয়া হয়েছিল ভারতের পক্ষ থেকে।

মার্চ মাসেই Analysis of World Arms Trade (CAWAT)-এর তরফ থেকে বলা হয়েছিল, বাংলাদেশে এয়ার ফোর্সের জন্য আটটি মিগ-৩৫ মাল্টি-রোল ফাইটার জেট কেনা হতে পারে। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশের ডিফেন্স বাজেট ২৮০ কোটি ডলার। তাই সেদেশের পক্ষে এতগুলি রাশিয়ান যুদ্ধবিমান কেনা সম্ভব নয়। বাংলাদেশকে মূলত অস্ত্র রফতানি করে চীন। তবে রাশিয়ান অস্ত্রের উপর এদেশের ব্যাপক বিশ্বাস রয়েছে। বাংলাদেশ রাশিয়ার তৈরি বিটিআর ট্যাংক, মিগ যুদ্ধবিমান ও এমআই-১৭ হেলিকপ্টার ব্যবহার করে।
উল্লেখ্য, এই প্রথম কোনও দেশকে এত টাকার ঋণ দিচ্ছে ভারত। হাসিনার এবারের সফরে ৩০টিরও বেশি চুক্তি স্বাক্ষরিত হতে পারে বলে অনুমান করা হচ্ছে। জানা গিয়েছে, ২০১০ ও ২০১৫ সালে ভারত দু’টি লাইন অব ক্রেডিটের মাধ্যমে ৩০০ কোটি ডলার দিয়েছিল। আগের দু’টি লাইন অব ক্রেডিটে প্রথমে টাকার অঙ্ক নির্দিষ্ট করে পরে প্রকল্প নির্ধারণ করা হয়েছিল। কিন্তু এবারে প্রাথমিক ২৭টি প্রকল্পের মধ্যে ১৮টি প্রকল্প বাছাই করে মোট অঙ্ক যোগ করে লাইন অব ক্রেডিট নির্ধারণ করা হয়েছে।

এই ঋণে সুদের হার ১ শতাংশ। ২০ বছরের মধ্যে পরিশোধযোগ্য। প্রথম পাঁচ বছর গ্রেস পিরিয়ড থাকবে। প্রকল্পে ব্যবহৃত ৭৫ শতাংশ পণ্য ভারত থেকে আমদানি করতে হবে এবং প্রকল্পভেদে প্রয়োজন পড়লে এ’টি কমতে পারে। ভারতের এক্সিম ব্যাংক এই অর্থ যোগান দেবে। প্রকল্পগুলোর মধ্যে আছে রূপপুর নিউক্লিয়ার বিদ্যুৎ প্রকল্প, পায়রা বন্দরে টার্মিনাল নির্মাণ, বুড়িগঙ্গা নদী সংরক্ষণ, রেল রাইনে সহায়তা, বিদ্যুৎ খাতে সহায়তা, চট্টগ্রাম ড্রাই ডকে সহায়তা, সড়ক খাতে সহায়তা ইত্যাদি। সূত্র-কলকাতা ২৪*৭।

উৎসঃ _পূর্বপশ্চিম_

http://www.newsbangla.net/newsdetail/detail/200/298543


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

bdslph said:


> guys any news on buying air refueling planes as we will need 2 or 3 of this as we are expanding



thats a good point you've brought up..... I was also thinking about it after seeing that nose nozzle on the J-10..... such aircraft would be crucial to cover the BoB.... and it would also become important once we go for AEW aircraft....

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## TopCat

Major 13625 said:


> India is going to offer $500 million LoC to purchase Russian Jet
> প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার সফরে ভারত থেকে ৫০০ কোটি ঋণ পাওয়ার কথা। আর সেই অর্থ দিয়েই নাকি বাংলাদেশ কিনবে মিগ-৩৫ যুদ্ধবিমান। এছাড়া মিগ-২৯এস ফাইটার জেটের কিছু অংশও কেনা হবে ওই টাকায়। বিশেষজ্ঞদের মতে, রাশিয়ান বিমান কেনার জন্য ভারতের অর্থ সাহায্য আদতে ঢাকা, নয়াদিল্লি ও মস্কোর মধ্যে পারস্পরিক সহযোগিতার বার্তা দিচ্ছে।
> 
> চারদিনের সফরে শুক্রবারই ভারতে এসেছেন শেখ হাসিনা। ‘ইন্ডিয়ান ডিফেন্স নিউজ’-এ প্রকাশিত তথ্য অনুযায়ী, ভারতের সঙ্গে ২৫ বছরের প্রতিরক্ষা চুক্তি স্বাক্ষর করতে আগ্রহী নন হাসিনা। কারণ বিরোধীরা তাকে সবসময় ‘ভারতের হাতের পুতুল’ বলে আখ্যা দিয়ে থাকে। ঠিক যেমন ভারত ও রাশিয়ার সঙ্গে প্রতিরক্ষা চুক্তি রয়েছে আফগানিস্তানের সঙ্গে। তেমনই চুক্তির অফার দেওয়া হয়েছিল ভারতের পক্ষ থেকে।
> 
> মার্চ মাসেই Analysis of World Arms Trade (CAWAT)-এর তরফ থেকে বলা হয়েছিল, বাংলাদেশে এয়ার ফোর্সের জন্য আটটি মিগ-৩৫ মাল্টি-রোল ফাইটার জেট কেনা হতে পারে। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশের ডিফেন্স বাজেট ২৮০ কোটি ডলার। তাই সেদেশের পক্ষে এতগুলি রাশিয়ান যুদ্ধবিমান কেনা সম্ভব নয়। বাংলাদেশকে মূলত অস্ত্র রফতানি করে চীন। তবে রাশিয়ান অস্ত্রের উপর এদেশের ব্যাপক বিশ্বাস রয়েছে। বাংলাদেশ রাশিয়ার তৈরি বিটিআর ট্যাংক, মিগ যুদ্ধবিমান ও এমআই-১৭ হেলিকপ্টার ব্যবহার করে।
> উল্লেখ্য, এই প্রথম কোনও দেশকে এত টাকার ঋণ দিচ্ছে ভারত। হাসিনার এবারের সফরে ৩০টিরও বেশি চুক্তি স্বাক্ষরিত হতে পারে বলে অনুমান করা হচ্ছে। জানা গিয়েছে, ২০১০ ও ২০১৫ সালে ভারত দু’টি লাইন অব ক্রেডিটের মাধ্যমে ৩০০ কোটি ডলার দিয়েছিল। আগের দু’টি লাইন অব ক্রেডিটে প্রথমে টাকার অঙ্ক নির্দিষ্ট করে পরে প্রকল্প নির্ধারণ করা হয়েছিল। কিন্তু এবারে প্রাথমিক ২৭টি প্রকল্পের মধ্যে ১৮টি প্রকল্প বাছাই করে মোট অঙ্ক যোগ করে লাইন অব ক্রেডিট নির্ধারণ করা হয়েছে।
> 
> এই ঋণে সুদের হার ১ শতাংশ। ২০ বছরের মধ্যে পরিশোধযোগ্য। প্রথম পাঁচ বছর গ্রেস পিরিয়ড থাকবে। প্রকল্পে ব্যবহৃত ৭৫ শতাংশ পণ্য ভারত থেকে আমদানি করতে হবে এবং প্রকল্পভেদে প্রয়োজন পড়লে এ’টি কমতে পারে। ভারতের এক্সিম ব্যাংক এই অর্থ যোগান দেবে। প্রকল্পগুলোর মধ্যে আছে রূপপুর নিউক্লিয়ার বিদ্যুৎ প্রকল্প, পায়রা বন্দরে টার্মিনাল নির্মাণ, বুড়িগঙ্গা নদী সংরক্ষণ, রেল রাইনে সহায়তা, বিদ্যুৎ খাতে সহায়তা, চট্টগ্রাম ড্রাই ডকে সহায়তা, সড়ক খাতে সহায়তা ইত্যাদি। সূত্র-কলকাতা ২৪*৭।
> 
> উৎসঃ _পূর্বপশ্চিম_
> 
> http://www.newsbangla.net/newsdetail/detail/200/298543




If the news is true, I would say take that money..
If a country is that stupid then I wont worry about them. Just milk them... @Nilgiri @Roybot

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## Major 13625

TopCat said:


> If the news is true, I would say take that money..
> If a country is that stupid then I wont worry about them. Just milk them... @Nilgiri @Roybot


yea we want milks


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## tarpitz

TopCat said:


> it wont be more than 35 million for sure.


35 million for J 10B is extremely cheap.

Myanmar have to spend almost 52 million for each JF 17.

In 2011 Iraq purchased 18 F-16IQ (Block 52) for $3 billion, an average unit cost of $165 million. The total weapons system contract was worth $4.2 billion.

Later, in 2013, Iraq increased its order by $830 million.

In 2014, the United Arab Emirates ordered 25 F-16s Block 60 aircraft for $5 billion. The order was increased to 30 aircraft with the average cost was $200 million.

ln 2017, Romania purchased 12 refurbished used F-16A/Bs from Portugal for €628 million, roughly $680 million, an average of $56 million per unit.

http://nation.time.com/2011/09/28/sticker-shock-iraqi-f-16s-165-million-each/

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ssible-deal-for-quotblock-61quot-f-16-395235/

http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/201...es-first-six-f-16abs-delivered-from-portugal/

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## Species

TopCat said:


> If the news is true, I would say take that money..
> If a country is that stupid then I wont worry about them. Just milk them... @Nilgiri @Roybot



China threat has made them go nuts, nation of nitwits!

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## 帅的一匹

UKBengali said:


> Say 50 million per plane, then 2.5 billion for 50.
> China can allow BD to pay in installments say over
> 5 years, then cost is affordable.


Why not 10 years? Take your time.

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## TopCat

tarpitz said:


> 35 million for J 10B is extremely cheap.
> 
> Myanmar have to spend almost 52 million for each JF 17.
> 
> In 2011 Iraq purchased 18 F-16IQ (Block 52) for $3 billion, an average unit cost of $165 million. The total weapons system contract was worth $4.2 billion.
> 
> Later, in 2013, Iraq increased its order by $830 million.
> 
> In 2014, the United Arab Emirates ordered 25 F-16s Block 60 aircraft for $5 billion. The order was increased to 30 aircraft with the average cost was $200 million.
> 
> ln 2017, Romania purchased 12 refurbished used F-16A/Bs from Portugal for €628 million, roughly $680 million, an average of $56 million per unit.
> 
> http://nation.time.com/2011/09/28/sticker-shock-iraqi-f-16s-165-million-each/
> 
> https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ssible-deal-for-quotblock-61quot-f-16-395235/
> 
> http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/201...es-first-six-f-16abs-delivered-from-portugal/



Ask how much Pakistan pays for F-16.. you will get your answer.

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## 帅的一匹

tarpitz said:


> 35 million for J 10B is extremely cheap.
> 
> Myanmar have to spend almost 52 million for each JF 17.
> 
> In 2011 Iraq purchased 18 F-16IQ (Block 52) for $3 billion, an average unit cost of $165 million. The total weapons system contract was worth $4.2 billion.
> 
> Later, in 2013, Iraq increased its order by $830 million.
> 
> In 2014, the United Arab Emirates ordered 25 F-16s Block 60 aircraft for $5 billion. The order was increased to 30 aircraft with the average cost was $200 million.
> 
> ln 2017, Romania purchased 12 refurbished used F-16A/Bs from Portugal for €628 million, roughly $680 million, an average of $56 million per unit.
> 
> http://nation.time.com/2011/09/28/sticker-shock-iraqi-f-16s-165-million-each/
> 
> https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ssible-deal-for-quotblock-61quot-f-16-395235/
> 
> http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/201...es-first-six-f-16abs-delivered-from-portugal/


It's not about money, it's about strategic alliance.

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## bdslph

only some one from inside Chinese military can say how much it will be j10b and how much they are willing to offer after discount or friendly price but it cannot be too less as it is a good air craft

maybe china will give us more time to pay and other good offer to sweeten the deal will sure other countries wont or cant give this

well my opinion go for the 50 j10b as until now china never gave us any problem

F16 is more expensive then J10B 

about the AWAS and the AAR planes China is making some we can buy from them in Future

some one said are interested in the E99 from BRazil doesnot that has USA and EU parts on the plane



Major 13625 said:


> India is going to offer $500 million LoC to purchase Russian Jet
> প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার সফরে ভারত থেকে ৫০০ কোটি ঋণ পাওয়ার কথা। আর সেই অর্থ দিয়েই নাকি বাংলাদেশ কিনবে মিগ-৩৫ যুদ্ধবিমান। এছাড়া মিগ-২৯এস ফাইটার জেটের কিছু অংশও কেনা হবে ওই টাকায়। বিশেষজ্ঞদের মতে, রাশিয়ান বিমান কেনার জন্য ভারতের অর্থ সাহায্য আদতে ঢাকা, নয়াদিল্লি ও মস্কোর মধ্যে পারস্পরিক সহযোগিতার বার্তা দিচ্ছে।
> 
> চারদিনের সফরে শুক্রবারই ভারতে এসেছেন শেখ হাসিনা। ‘ইন্ডিয়ান ডিফেন্স নিউজ’-এ প্রকাশিত তথ্য অনুযায়ী, ভারতের সঙ্গে ২৫ বছরের প্রতিরক্ষা চুক্তি স্বাক্ষর করতে আগ্রহী নন হাসিনা। কারণ বিরোধীরা তাকে সবসময় ‘ভারতের হাতের পুতুল’ বলে আখ্যা দিয়ে থাকে। ঠিক যেমন ভারত ও রাশিয়ার সঙ্গে প্রতিরক্ষা চুক্তি রয়েছে আফগানিস্তানের সঙ্গে। তেমনই চুক্তির অফার দেওয়া হয়েছিল ভারতের পক্ষ থেকে।
> 
> মার্চ মাসেই Analysis of World Arms Trade (CAWAT)-এর তরফ থেকে বলা হয়েছিল, বাংলাদেশে এয়ার ফোর্সের জন্য আটটি মিগ-৩৫ মাল্টি-রোল ফাইটার জেট কেনা হতে পারে। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশের ডিফেন্স বাজেট ২৮০ কোটি ডলার। তাই সেদেশের পক্ষে এতগুলি রাশিয়ান যুদ্ধবিমান কেনা সম্ভব নয়। বাংলাদেশকে মূলত অস্ত্র রফতানি করে চীন। তবে রাশিয়ান অস্ত্রের উপর এদেশের ব্যাপক বিশ্বাস রয়েছে। বাংলাদেশ রাশিয়ার তৈরি বিটিআর ট্যাংক, মিগ যুদ্ধবিমান ও এমআই-১৭ হেলিকপ্টার ব্যবহার করে।
> উল্লেখ্য, এই প্রথম কোনও দেশকে এত টাকার ঋণ দিচ্ছে ভারত। হাসিনার এবারের সফরে ৩০টিরও বেশি চুক্তি স্বাক্ষরিত হতে পারে বলে অনুমান করা হচ্ছে। জানা গিয়েছে, ২০১০ ও ২০১৫ সালে ভারত দু’টি লাইন অব ক্রেডিটের মাধ্যমে ৩০০ কোটি ডলার দিয়েছিল। আগের দু’টি লাইন অব ক্রেডিটে প্রথমে টাকার অঙ্ক নির্দিষ্ট করে পরে প্রকল্প নির্ধারণ করা হয়েছিল। কিন্তু এবারে প্রাথমিক ২৭টি প্রকল্পের মধ্যে ১৮টি প্রকল্প বাছাই করে মোট অঙ্ক যোগ করে লাইন অব ক্রেডিট নির্ধারণ করা হয়েছে।
> 
> এই ঋণে সুদের হার ১ শতাংশ। ২০ বছরের মধ্যে পরিশোধযোগ্য। প্রথম পাঁচ বছর গ্রেস পিরিয়ড থাকবে। প্রকল্পে ব্যবহৃত ৭৫ শতাংশ পণ্য ভারত থেকে আমদানি করতে হবে এবং প্রকল্পভেদে প্রয়োজন পড়লে এ’টি কমতে পারে। ভারতের এক্সিম ব্যাংক এই অর্থ যোগান দেবে। প্রকল্পগুলোর মধ্যে আছে রূপপুর নিউক্লিয়ার বিদ্যুৎ প্রকল্প, পায়রা বন্দরে টার্মিনাল নির্মাণ, বুড়িগঙ্গা নদী সংরক্ষণ, রেল রাইনে সহায়তা, বিদ্যুৎ খাতে সহায়তা, চট্টগ্রাম ড্রাই ডকে সহায়তা, সড়ক খাতে সহায়তা ইত্যাদি। সূত্র-কলকাতা ২৪*৭।
> 
> উৎসঃ _পূর্বপশ্চিম_
> 
> http://www.newsbangla.net/newsdetail/detail/200/298543



india has us cornered first they try to sale there own but they saw we will not buy so they keep in the business with a good interest rate . buy Russian weapons and parts but sometimes after sales maintenance we will need to do in INdia. well they are very tricky ppl once signed they will make us to do more business with them. 
well i would say well done india

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

bdslph said:


> some one said are interested in the E99 from BRazil doesnot that has USA and EU parts on the plane








well, its not about the aircraft, actually... its more about the radar.... thats a Swedish system....
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newssaab-modernise-brazilian-e99-aircraft-erieye-system

Sweden is a progressive country with a long history and a breeding ground for state-of-the-art technology....

I don't see any issues with Swedish technology being adopted....


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## bdslph

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, its not about the aircraft, actually... its more about the radar.... thats a Swedish system....
> http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newssaab-modernise-brazilian-e99-aircraft-erieye-system
> 
> Sweden is a progressive country with a long history and a breeding ground for state-of-the-art technology....
> 
> I don't see any issues with Swedish technology being adopted....



i dont have problem with the swedish tech because iti s one of the best but what i am saying about string attach 
over all i read the spec it is excellent enough for us


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## monitor

*BAF female officer briefing PAK soldiers in UN peace keeping mission in Africa.*

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

bdslph said:


> i dont have problem with the swedish tech because iti s one of the best but what i am saying about string attach
> over all i read the spec it is excellent enough for us



can you please give an idea, how much of the Erieye system is American?


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## Flynn Swagmire

monitor said:


> View attachment 389668
> 
> *BAF female officer briefing PAK soldiers in UN peace keeping mission in Africa.*


Seems like they dont like it...


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## asad71

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bdmilitaryplus/permalink/319417565145184/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bdmilitaryplus/permalink/319389721814635/

BAF has selected the LY-80E aidef system.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202973224847755&set=gm.319253701828237&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202973224847755&set=gm.319253701828237&type=3


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## Major 13625

monitor said:


> View attachment 389668
> 
> *BAF female officer briefing PAK soldiers in UN peace keeping mission in Africa.*


They can put an attractive female officer! To buy attention

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## Michael Corleone

Major 13625 said:


> They can put an attractive female officer! To buy attention


She isn't attractive though. And army should be professional not sexualised. Comes from an overly sexually freed person.


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## Stuttgart001

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, its not about the aircraft, actually... its more about the radar.... thats a Swedish system....
> 
> Sweden is a progressive country with a long history and a breeding ground for state-of-the-art technology....
> 
> I don't see any issues with Swedish technology being adopted....


This plane is a AEW rather than a AWACS. Go and buy a AWACS that will be your airborne headquarter.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

TopCat said:


> Ask how much Pakistan pays for F-16.. you will get your answer.



5.5 billion for 18 F-16s + 500 AMRAAMs+JHMS etc.

When an aircraft is bought, its spares,training,infra and maintanance costs are also to be considered not just fly away costs.

JF-17 block II costs around 35 million (fly away)... now include the infra for new jets(types), training,spares and other expenses.


35 million for J-10 was signed vy musharaf in mid 2000s .. thats like a decade ago... im sure it has gone up now..

Even if China sells it for say 45 million (realistic price would be in that bracket).

Bangladesh would still have to pay for infra to support the new type of aircraft,training,spares & maintaining costs... do the math.

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## TopCat

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> 5.5 billion for 18 F-16s + 500 AMRAAMs+JHMS etc.



I was talking about F-16 not AMRAAMs


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## DESERT FIGHTER

TopCat said:


> I was talking about F-16 not AMRAAMs



Pak is one of the oldest F-16 users, we have the infrastructure to support F-16s,Training,maintenance and logistics supply.... so naturally it would cost us compartively lesser than a new user who would have to start from the beggining.

F-16s are also bought from USA through FMF.

But google the previous deal which is still lingering .. for 8 F-16 Block 52+ we have to pay 700 million.. thats 87.5 million per plane (minus infra,training,maintenance or logistic costs).

All of which and more are to be incurred by a new user.



monitor said:


> View attachment 389668
> 
> *BAF female officer briefing PAK soldiers in UN peace keeping mission in Africa.*



Appears to be a pic from late 2000s.

That camo was replaced by Pak Army in 2012.



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> can you please give an idea, how much of the Erieye system is American?



Its not an american system but purely swedish.

Would probably cost around 700+ million dollars.

Pak operates 4 of these.










In total PAF has 8 AWACS and several other EW/ELIENT/Electronic warfare aircraft.

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## asad71




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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Stuttgart001 said:


> This plane is a AEW rather than a AWACS. Go and buy a AWACS that will be your airborne headquarter.



actually that should depend on the source of the system rather than the system itself.... any kind of string attached makes a good platform bad....


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## 帅的一匹

KJ500 AWACS

Only three countries on this planet can produce DESA AWACS, China is one of them.

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## Flynn Swagmire

wanglaokan said:


> KJ500 AWACS
> 
> Only three countries on this planet can produce DESA AWACS, China is one of them.


Well, tbh, I dont like the carrier aircraft... does China got better than this carrier aircraft?


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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> KJ500 AWACS
> 
> Only three countries on this planet can produce DESA AWACS, China is one of them.


That has be a little over self-confident. There are few counties could produce it. US, Isreal,sweden. Also Britain and France use US-made AWACS. But i do not doubt their ability to design and produce such a plane. For them, it is not a matter of technology but money and time.
China should be humble even we have had so much achievement. 
Never underestimate other country.



OrdinaryGenius said:


> Well, tbh, I dont like the carrier aircraft... does China got better than this carrier aircraft?


There is another AWAC KJ-2000 the aircraft of which is IL-76.

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## 帅的一匹

Stuttgart001 said:


> That has be a little over self-confident. There are few counties could produce it. US, Isreal,sweden. Also Britain and France use US-made AWACS. But i do not doubt their ability to design and produce such a plane. For them, it is not a matter of technology but money and time.
> China should be humble even we have had so much achievement.
> Never underestimate other country.
> 
> 
> There is another AWAC KJ-2000 the aircraft of which is IL-76.


Our new DESA is generation ahead of UK and Israel, only E2D can bring the equation.



OrdinaryGenius said:


> Well, tbh, I dont like the carrier aircraft... does China got better than this carrier aircraft?


Bro, waiting C919 being matured. I just can't wait if we put a DESA on it.

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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> Our new DESA is generation ahead of UK and Israel, only E2D can bring the equation.


They do have the ability.


> Bro, waiting C919 being matured. I just can't wait if we put a DESA on it.


C919 is a commercial jet and not big enough.Besides, its engines are made by P&W. So I prefer to put it on Y-20.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

if BAF want to procure Mig 35 instead of Su 30 on Indian loan it will be wrong decision. other thing on defense pact is co operation between our three doc yards with Indian Two doc yard & Defense industry to industry. so Indian experts are easily enter the....................!! 

Now BD needs to raise the procurement of J 10b to counter India.
Guys what types of military hardware BD need to choose by this loan.


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## Stuttgart001

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Now BD needs to raise the procurement of J 10b to counter India.
> Guys what types of military hardware BD need to choose by this loan.


Good choice for BAF ! You will not be disappointed at J-10B.
Coming to others hardware, I think a EW plane is very useful for BAF. 
The plane could jam and destroy the foe's electric equipment.
No matter how many weapons you have ,if you are suppressed in EW field, these weapon are piece of shit.
A lot of classic blitzkriegs implemented by Isreal AF are due to their efficient usage of EW weapons which blinded the enemy totally.

I recommend BAF of EJ-10 which is modified based on J-10, which won't add too much logistical jobs. 

As for AWAC, KJ-500 is good and qualified.

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## 帅的一匹

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> if BAF want to procure Mig 35 instead of Su 30 on Indian loan it will be wrong decision. other thing on defense pact is co operation between our three doc yards with Indian Two doc yard & Defense industry to industry. so Indian experts are easily enter the....................!!
> 
> Now BD needs to raise the procurement of J 10b to counter India.
> Guys what types of military hardware BD need to choose by this loan.


India can't dictate BAF to buy Su30 or Mig29? I think the 500 millions aid comes with pre condition. Highly suspicious



Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> if BAF want to procure Mig 35 instead of Su 30 on Indian loan it will be wrong decision. other thing on defense pact is co operation between our three doc yards with Indian Two doc yard & Defense industry to industry. so Indian experts are easily enter the....................!!
> 
> Now BD needs to raise the procurement of J 10b to counter India.
> Guys what types of military hardware BD need to choose by this loan.


I trust BD, but has a question mark on Hasina.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Stuttgart001 said:


> There is another AWAC KJ-2000 the aircraft of which is IL-76.


Bro, KJ-2000 is a heavy awac system. Bangladesh just cant jump on using heavy awacs without any experience...



wanglaokan said:


> Bro, waiting C919 being matured. I just can't wait if we put a DESA on it.


Aren't C919 uses non Chinese engine?



wanglaokan said:


> I trust BD, but has a question mark on Hasina.


Well, our military allegiances to our constitution...


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## Stuttgart001

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Bro, KJ-2000 is a heavy awac system. Bangladesh just cant jump on using heavy awacs without any experience....


I understand. 
If BAF wants a light AWAC system and excludes KJ-500, just buy a plane and then China could modify it with the equipment of KJ-500.
But I am afraid it will cost more.


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## Areesh

Stuttgart001 said:


> There is another AWAC KJ-2000 the aircraft of which is IL-76.



I hope PAF goes for Kj2000 sometime in future. We have 7 AWACS in our airforce but we would need more to have AWACS available in case of a war.


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## Stuttgart001

Areesh said:


> I hope PAF goes for Kj2000 sometime in future. We have 7 AWACS in our airforce but we would need more to have AWACS available in case of a war.


Dude, there is a better baby available for PAF in future. KJ-3000 is under test right now.

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## masud

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> if BAF want to procure Mig 35 instead of Su 30 on Indian loan it will be wrong decision. other thing on defense pact is co operation between our three doc yards with Indian Two doc yard & Defense industry to industry. so Indian experts are easily enter the....................!!
> 
> Now BD needs to raise the procurement of J 10b to counter India.
> Guys what types of military hardware BD need to choose by this loan.


MY Choice................
since india and china both buying s-400 , then why we don,t buy them too (i want chines verson s-400 and Krasukha-4 ).
it,s a defencive weapons so i don,t think india will have any objection.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasukha_EW_System





If money left then want to buy this...................

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## Bengal Tiger 71

masud said:


> MY Choice................
> since india and china both buying s-400 , then why we don,t buy them too (i want chines verson s-400 and Krasukha-4 ).
> it,s a defencive weapons so i don,t think india will have any objection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasukha_EW_System
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If money left then want to buy this...................


Cool , but be practical.

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## Areesh

Stuttgart001 said:


> Dude, there is a better baby available for PAF in future. KJ-3000 is under test right now.



Didn't know about it. Looks like a beast. Interesting prospect for Pakistan that is already using Chinese AWACS.


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## Stuttgart001

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Cool , but be practical.


Right.
Wait and see the performance of S-400 in Syria.
Although China has sign a contract to pursue S-400, I personally doubt whether S-400 is as capable as Russia claims.
According to Russia, the most range of S-400 is 400 Km.
But the missile 40N6 which is alleged to have a 400km range is still under development ,no-one knows when it could be practical.

China with S-300PMU2 and HQ-9/9A does not need air defense systems urgently and China not like india wouldn't like to be the guinea pig of new systems .
China prefers to buy something tested and robust. So the new Su-35 and S-400 obviously could not give China an appetite.
However, our friend Russia is kind of shortage of money in recent years. China should buy goods to support them.
That is why the negotiation about Su-35 and S-400 lasted so long with a lot of rumors.
Anyway, China has bought the S-400 which is more or less better than S-300PMU2.


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## masud

Stuttgart001 said:


> Right.
> Wait and see the performance of S-400 in Syria.
> Although China has sign a contract to pursue S-400, I personally doubt whether S-400 is as capable as Russia claims.
> According to Russia, the most range of S-400 is 400 Km.
> But the missile 40N6 which is alleged to have a 400km range is still under development ,no-one knows when it could be practical.
> 
> China with S-300PMU2 and HQ-9/9A does not need air defense systems urgently and China not like india wouldn't like to be the guinea pig of new systems .
> China prefers to buy something tested and robust. So the new Su-35 and S-400 obviously could not give China an appetite.
> However, our friend Russia is kind of shortage of money in recent years. China should buy goods to support them.
> That is why the negotiation about Su-35 and S-400 lasted so long with a lot of rumors.
> Anyway, China has bought the S-400 which is more or less better than S-300PMU2.


can you tell me bro, which air defence is more capable then S-400? with proff ?


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## Stuttgart001

masud said:


> can you tell me bro, which air defence is more capable then S-400? with proff ?


I can't. Because the real capability of S-400 is untested.
For a sophisticated weapon system ,the robustness is the most important.
If I can choose, i prefer the latest Patriot SAM.
Let's take Su-30mki as an example. Russian gave indian a list of beautiful datas about Su-30mki shining indian eyes.
They could not wait a moment to pour money in it.
Actually, some new technology used in Su-30mki are untest and unpractical and need lots of improvement . To a new sophisticated system, this phenomenon is very normal.
So Indian bought Su-30mki and operated it while a lot of deciencies exposed during the usage. To fix it, indian wasted a huge amount of money which is supposed to paid by Russia.
Now, some of Su-30mki technologies have been improved and modified and applied on Su-35.

India is the guinea pig of Russian Weapons.

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## masud

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Cool , but be practical.


from now on we only have 1 capable radar system in barisal, everything eals is out dated. we must protect out capital DHAKA. IN CHINES VERSON S-400 there is a lot of chines input system which later we can intregrated to HQ-9 , FD-2000 ETC ETC and can create an effective umbralla (national air defence system).


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## Stuttgart001

masud said:


> from now on we only have 1 capable radar system in barisal, everything eals is out dated. we must protect out capital DHAKA. IN CHINES VERSON S-400 there is a lot of chines input system which later we can intregrated to HQ-9 , FD-2000 ETC ETC and can create an effective umbralla (national air defence system).


If the imagery enemy of Bangladesh' SAM is indian, i suggest to choose another SAM instead of S-400 which India has already bought. 
India will know the weakness of S-400.


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## masud

Stuttgart001 said:


> If the imagery enemy of Bangladesh' SAM is indian, i suggest to choose another SAM instead of S-400 which India has already bought.
> India will know the weakness of S-400.


indias number 1 enemy is china, then why china also buying the same S-400 system? what i know that every single platfrom has it,s own uniqe system and that is built for those particular nation.


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## Major 13625

We must induct HQ 9, today or tomorrow.


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## Fledgingwings

Which aircraft is the frontline Fighter for BAF??


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## Major 13625

Fledgingwings said:


> Which aircraft is the frontline Fighter for BAF??


mig 29


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## Stuttgart001

masud said:


> indias number 1 enemy is china, then why china also buying the same S-400 system?


S-400 will not be the mainstay of China' air defense.
China is so big that there are a lot of different SAMs providing multi-lays of protection.
As for long-rang SAM, HQ-9 and its variants are always the mainstay of air defense force.
3 billion S-400 could only cover a couple of cities but there are a lot of cities in China. We can deploy S-400 away from india.
Why China bought S-400?
IMO, there are two main reasons:
First, Russia has suffer a lot because of the sanction and low oil price. They want money and provide China an offer of S-400 and Su-35.China should buy something to support Russia. In fact, China had already bought huge amount oil from Russia in advance .
Second, S-400 is alleged to be very powerful and more advanced than S-300 which China already has and is familiar with. China could learn something to improve our indigenous SAM system.


> what i know that every single platfrom has it,s own unique system and that is built for those particular nation.


Yes. If you are willing to pay the money, you can ask supplier for modifying according to you unique requestments.
But people usually want to customize the fighter jet or warship ,never hear about SAM system.

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## Major 13625

Stuttgart001 said:


> S-400 will not be the mainstay of China' air defense.
> China is so big that there are a lot of different SAMs providing multi-lays of protection.
> As for long-rang SAM, HQ-9 and its variants are always the mainstay of air defense force.
> 3 billion S-400 could only cover a city but there are a lot of cities in China. We can deploy S-400 away from indian.
> Why China bought S-400?
> IMO, there are two main reasons:
> First, Russia has suffer a lot because of the sanction and low oil price. They want money and provide China an offer of S-400 and Su-35.China should buy something so a support to Russia. In fact, China had already bought huge amount oil from Russia in advance .
> Second, S-400 is alleged to be very powerful and more advanced than S-300 which China already has and is familiar with. China could learn something to improve our indigenous SAM system.


you forget to mention! China will have experience about s 400! which India will operate, It would give China edge over India


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## Stuttgart001

Major 13625 said:


> you forget to mention! China will have experience about s 400! which India will operate, It would give China edge over India


But China bought S-400 before india did it.
So I think it should not be a reason .


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## 帅的一匹

Stuttgart001 said:


> But China bought S-400 before india did it.
> So I think it should not be a reason .


S400 is just a defence weapon. Russia always overclaim their weapon for sale, quite normal.


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## masud

wanglaokan said:


> S400 is just a defence weapon. Russia always overclaim their weapon for sale, quite normal.


I think S-400 is one of the best air defence system now in market. don,t know about it,s price but some where read it may be arround 400 milion. if we deploy 1 complit battery in DHAKA then what area it can cover, can any one help, to gave a clear image. @Barmaley @vostok can you help me bro to understand the effectiveness..................


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## Fledgingwings

Major 13625 said:


> mig 29


How many in service?


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## Abdul_Jalil

Lionaides said:


> is there any pic of F-7BGI...if anyone have that...please share ...


Two photo of the bird.


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## Bilal9

masud said:


> I think S-400 is one of the best air defence system now in market. don,t know about it,s price but some where read it may be arround 400 milion. if we deploy 1 complit battery in DHAKA then what area it can cover, can any one help, to gave a clear image. @Barmaley @vostok can you help me bro to understand the effectiveness..................



The predecessor of S-400 (S-350E Vityaz) is so good that the Koreans collaborated with Almaz to build their own version of it *(Cheolmae-2 or KM-SAM Anti-missile Missile)*, instead of going with the purchase of THAAD missiles from the US - much to the chagrin of US suppliers.

The KM-SAM is the middle-tier of South Korea's three-tier aerial and missile defense system. Though it was developed in Russia by the Almaz Design Bureau with assistance from Samsung Thales, LIG Nex1, and Doosan DST, localization and industrialization were done in South Korea enough to consider it an indigenous system. The Cheongung (Iron Hawk) can intercept targets up to an altitude of 15 km (49,000 ft) at a range of 40 km (25 mi). It is to replace upgraded MIM-23 Hawk batteries in South Korea and be made available for export. Almaz-Antey continued with the program after prototypes were transferred and have created a distinctly Russian version called the Vityaz missile system.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KM-SAM

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## Abdul_Jalil

Green Soldier said:


> Two photo of the bird.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

wanglaokan said:


> S400 is just a defence weapon. Russia always overclaim their weapon for sale, quite normal.



well, even its not overplayed, it still is the best option available..... 
it has a deterrent effect that can't be ignored.... this deterrent is now desired by quite a few newly emerging powers in Asia and Africa.... its true that Russia may restrict the distribution of S-400.... yet, Russia may not have the option to completely stop its export.... in some specific cases, Russia also needs the influence that it cannot buy without selling the S-400....


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## 帅的一匹

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, even its not overplayed, it still is the best option available.....
> it has a deterrent effect that can't be ignored.... this deterrent is now desired by quite a few newly emerging powers in Asia and Africa.... its true that Russia may restrict the distribution of S-400.... yet, Russia may not have the option to completely stop its export.... in some specific cases, Russia also needs the influence that it cannot buy without selling the S-400....


China is selling FD2000 to Iraq and Saudi, we are selling our influence as well. I don't know when 40N6 missile will be in service?

The max range of 48N6 is around 250KM, the domestic PLA HQ9 has around 230KM range. Until 40N6 put in service, both two will be in the same class. And we had developed HQ19(Chinese Thad), which had been in service since early this year. I think HQ19 won't be for sale.

China and Russia are friend, so we will always do military business.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

wanglaokan said:


> China is selling FD2000 to Iraq and Saudi, we are selling our influence as well. I don't know when 40N6 missile will be in service?
> 
> The max range of 48N6 is around 250KM, the domestic PLA HQ9 has around 230KM range. Until 40N6 put in service, both two will be in the same class. And we had developed HQ19(Chinese Thad), which had been in service since early this year. I think HQ19 won't be for sale.
> 
> China and Russia are friend, so we will always do military business.



thanks for clarifying....
yea, there are some limited options in the market for sure.... 
and anyone willing to shop, has to shop within that limited option keeping geopolitical balance in mind...


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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> China is selling FD2000 to Iraq and Saudi, we are selling our influence as well. I don't know when 40N6 missile will be in service?


I doubt the meaning and efficiency of such a long-range missile.
You know the range of Patriot III is 80 km.



wanglaokan said:


> The max range of 48N6 is around 250KM, the domestic PLA HQ9 has around 230KM range. Until 40N6 put in service, both two will be in the same class. And we had developed HQ19(Chinese Thad), which had been in service since early this year. I think HQ19 won't be for sale.


I am afraid not.
You know india want to buy a anti-missile system like Iseali Iron Dome to neutralize Pakistan's ballistic missiles.
If India really buy Iron Dome or something similar, Pakistan definitely need HQ-19 to do the same work.


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## TopCat

Stuttgart001 said:


> I am afraid not.
> You know india want to buy a anti-missile system like Iseali Iron Dome to neutralize Pakistan's ballistic missiles.
> If India really buy Iron Dome or something similar, Pakistan definitely need HQ-19 to do the same work.



India already bought Arrow missile for 2 billion dollar. Iron Dome is for smaller rockets.


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## Major 13625

Fledgingwings said:


> How many in service?


8 mig 29 and 37 f7



masud said:


> I think S-400 is one of the best air defence system now in market. don,t know about it,s price but some where read it may be arround 400 milion. if we deploy 1 complit battery in DHAKA then what area it can cover, can any one help, to gave a clear image. @Barmaley @vostok can you help me bro to understand the effectiveness..................


Hq 9 can cover 49000 square km i think s 400 may be more


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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> India already bought Arrow missile for 2 billion dollar. Iron Dome is for smaller rockets.


India is going for S400?


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## masud

wanglaokan said:


> India is going for S400?


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/complete-information-on-indias-almaz-antey-40r6-s-400-triumf.407104/


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Stuttgart001 said:


> I doubt the meaning and efficiency of such a long-range missile.
> You know the range of Patriot III is 80 km.



thats a good point you've brought up.... range of missiles are related to their purpose....
and the Patriot certainly doesn't have the same purpose as that of S-400.... which is why they're not likely to have a similar profile....

regarding export of such missiles to other countries, it depends on the purpose that country is trying to fulfill.... the emerging powers' needs have to be taken into account in order to make sense of such deals.... and such purpose is related to geopolitics given the sensitive nature of these systems.... its not just military needs we're talking about.... its the geopolitical purpose of these systems that needs to be taken into account....


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## Stuttgart001

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> thats a good point you've brought up.... range of missiles are related to their purpose....
> and the Patriot certainly doesn't have the same purpose as that of S-400.... which is why they're not likely to have a similar profile....
> regarding export of such missiles to other countries, it depends on the purpose that country is trying to fulfill.... the i powers' needs have to be taken into account in order to make sense of such deals.... and such purpose is related to geopolitics given the sensitive nature of these systems.... its not just military needs we're talking about.... its the geopolitical purpose of these systems that needs to be taken into account....


There are two main types of SAM systems.
First, Patriot series, is defensive and used to intercept the vehicle in the atmosphere, like planes, cruise missile , SRBM and MRBM.
Second, Standard series, Standard 1 and 2 play the similar role to Patriot with a range of about 100 km. Standard 3 and post variants is offensive and used to intercept vehicle out of atmosphere,like MRBM, SLBM, ICBM, satellite etc.
The latest Standard has a range of 1200 km could shoot down ballistic missile in the mid fight stage.

S-400 is kind of a mix of defensive and offensive systems.

I prefer US's style.
I think 200km range for HQ-9 is enough and all we need to do is to make it more accurate and agiler and react faster. 
Let HQ-19 do other work.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Stuttgart001 said:


> There are two main types of SAM systems.
> First, Patriot series, is defensive and used to intercept the vehicle in the atmosphere, like planes, cruise missile , SRBM and MRBM.
> Second, Standard series, Standard 1 and 2 play the similar role to Patriot with a range of about 100 km. Standard 3 and post variants is offensive and used to intercept vehicle out of atmosphere,like MRBM, SLBM, ICBM, satellite etc.
> The latest Standard has a range of 1200 km could shoot down ballistic missile in the mid fight stage.
> 
> S-400 is kind of a mix of defensive and offensive systems.
> 
> I prefer US's style.
> I think 200km range for HQ-9 is enough and all we need to do is to make it more accurate and agiler and react faster.
> Let HQ-19 do other work.



thats a good summary you've given... thanks a lot for that....

I am more interested in the geopolitical game that is played around such systems.... e.g. think about the purchase, supply or deployment of these systems in different geographical area.... they certainly would mean different things in different area..... and different systems in the same place would also mean different things... right?

e.g. think about S-400 in the hands on Indonesia or Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Turkey or Morocco..... these countries all control major international sea routes.... 

again, there's the origin issue.... HQ-9 in Indonesia would create a clash involving Japan.... but S-400.... well, Japan may just swallow it if it's exchanged with HQ-9.....

its not just the capability of the system that creates geopolitics.... its 1) the potential capability and 2) the origin of the design and the designing country's strategic intentions - these are part of geopolitics


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## Michael Corleone

AIr force was suppose to decide in a month right? Who's gonna win the tender??


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

everyone talks about active radar, which is always a target of enemy anti-radiation missiles.... what about passive surveillance systems?.....

this is a good video that shows how it works..... its a Czech-made system shown in the video....

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## bdslph

i have a question why we dont buy any helicopter from China yet in like bulk 8 or 15 helicopter 
i know we have 2 or 3 in navy


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## masud

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> everyone talks about active radar, which is always a target of enemy anti-radiation missiles.... what about passive surveillance systems?.....
> 
> this is a good video that shows how it works..... its a Czech-made system shown in the video....


i just got an evil idea..........
first some of our air force old junk plan need to smach mobile tower, then We should ask our mobile phone operator (grameen phone, robi etc...) to install this king of system to avoid Mid air coalition. it will be cost efective............


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

masud said:


> i just got an evil idea..........
> first some of our air force old junk plan need to smach mobile tower, then We should ask our mobile phone operator (grameen phone, robi etc...) to install this king of system to avoid Mid air coalition. it will be cost efective............



ha ha ha..... that is a weird plan.... actually those towers have their own purpose and limitations.... those shouldn't be mixed up with other purpose, even if you can....

rather, the point here is, a very good air warning system has not been discussed.... whereas, in wartime, most active radars would be switched on and off to avoid being targeted....


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## Major 13625



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## Stuttgart001

Major 13625 said:


> View attachment 390865


Could anybody translated this in English ?


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## Arthur

Major 13625 said:


> View attachment 390865





Stuttgart001 said:


> Could anybody translated this in English ?


It's a screenshot from an official BAF document, that says :

In process to be inducted in BAF :

I. 3 Medium Range Transport Aircraft
ii. 2 Training Helicopters.
iii. 1 Short Range AD Radar (SHORAD) System.
iv. Integrated AD Network.
v. 1 Long Range AD Radar System.
vi. UAV
vii. 11 PT 6 primary trainer aircraft.

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## Stuttgart001

Khan saheb said:


> It's a screenshot from an official BAF document, that says :
> 
> In proceess to be inducted in BAF :
> 
> I. 3 Medium Range Transport Aircraft
> ii. 2 Training Helicopters.
> iii. 1 Radar for SHORAD System.
> iv. Integrated AD Network.
> v. 1 Long Range AD Radar System.
> vi. UAV
> vii. 11 PT 6 primary trainer aircraft.


Great!
A big shopping !

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## Michael Corleone

Major 13625 said:


> View attachment 390865


Congrats! Cheers guys!


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## bd_4_ever

Major 13625 said:


> View attachment 390865



Good share! 

These are just indications that BAF is preparing for a big sum of aircraft purchase.

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## 帅的一匹

bd_4_ever said:


> Good share!
> 
> These are just indications that BAF is preparing for a big sum of aircraft purchase.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

I was wondering where the Indian $500 million would fit in here.....


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## TopCat

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> I was wondering where the Indian $500 million would fit in here.....



May be some truck or even some helos from India. I dont think BD will use them to purchase arms from a 3rd country. It just does not look decent.


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## bd_4_ever

wanglaokan said:


>


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## Major 13625

This time BAF will go for c295 instead of c130, BAF officers discuss about it with army.
can anyone give us suggestion what will be those components?
Short Range AD Radar (SHORAD) System.
Integrated AD Network.
Long Range AD Radar System.
UAV



wanglaokan said:


>


Chinise UAVs are awesome. They have shown their best in middle east. We may buy them

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Major 13625 said:


> This time BAF will go for c295 instead of c130, BAF officers discuss about it with army.



this is a good move.... its been way too long that we've been blackmailed with C-130.... no more of such... its time to go forward....



Major 13625 said:


> can anyone give us suggestion what will be those components?
> Short Range AD Radar (SHORAD) System.
> Integrated AD Network.
> Long Range AD Radar System.
> UAV



SHORAD radar would be for the same FM-90, I think.... there's no point going for different systems to fulfill the same purpose....

LR radar could be the Leonardo radar already in place..... or may be something new to replace some of the old ones or something 'totally' new.... like getting a radar coverage over some less-than-secured airspace...

UAV may have two options.... one for small UAVs that we had been testing.... another one could be long-range ones to patrol over the Bay of Bengal....

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## 帅的一匹

Now I love BD section, you guys always plan something new everyday. I got surprise everyday.

Remind me The status of China in the early 1990s, rising at unbelievable speed.

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## Flynn Swagmire

wanglaokan said:


> Now I love BD section, you guys always plan something new everyday. I got surprise everyday.
> 
> Remind me The status of China in the early 1990s, rising at unbelievable speed.


Shhhh, some people won't like that. BTW, we try to follow China as a role model...

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## 帅的一匹

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Shhhh, some people won't like that. BTW, we try to follow China as a role model...


Feel pride you saying it

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## Flynn Swagmire

wanglaokan said:


> Feel pride you saying it


No need to believe me. Just observe it yourself...


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## Arthur

Major 13625 said:


> This time BAF will go for c295 instead of c130, BAF officers discuss about it with army.





Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> this is a good move.... its been way too long that we've been blackmailed with C-130.... no more of such... its time to go forward.


C 295 is more in the class of lightweight -Medium Range aircraft ; while C130 is a medium weight - medium range aircraft.

Considering BAF few years ago requested additional C130, I believe they want something in that weight class. And that EDA request is not going to materialise, as I have mentioned last year. So new platform is the way I believe. 

My choice aircraft would be the Shaanxi Y-9 

@wanglaokan bro, do you know the unit cost of Y 9?
@Bilal9 Remember this discussion?
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-154#post-8920748

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## Bilal9

Khan saheb said:


> C 295 is more in the class of lightweight -Medium Range aircraft ; while C130 is a medium weight - medium range aircraft.
> 
> Considering BAF few years ago requested additional C130, I believe they want something in that weight class. And that EDA request is not going to materialise, as I have mentioned last year. So new platform is the way I believe.
> 
> My choice aircraft would be the Shaanxi Y-9
> 
> @wanglaokan bro, do you know the unit cost of Y 9?
> @Bilal9 Remember this discussion?
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-154#post-8920748



Yup, Shaanxi Y-9 has gone into serial production.

http://defence-blog.com/news/fourte...tary-transport-aircraft-spotted-in-china.html

And variants of it are used for the exact same needs as we use our C-130's for.....

http://defence-blog.com/news/chines...of-a-new-y-9-military-transport-aircraft.html

Unfortunately I don't see a lot of progress on the Y-30 transport which was supposed to use newer more fuel-efficient design and engines.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> May be some truck or even some helos from India. I dont think BD will use them to purchase arms from a 3rd country. It just does not look decent.



BD should buy absolutely nothing from India militarily.
It's whole defence doctrine is based on India as it's primary threat.

500 million US dollars is nothing for a 250 billion dollar economy growing at over 7% a year.

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## 帅的一匹

Bilal9 said:


> Yup, Shaanxi Y-9 has gone into serial production.
> 
> http://defence-blog.com/news/fourte...tary-transport-aircraft-spotted-in-china.html
> 
> And variants of it are used for the exact same needs as we use our C-130's for.....
> 
> http://defence-blog.com/news/chines...of-a-new-y-9-military-transport-aircraft.html
> 
> Unfortunately I don't see a lot of progress on the Y-30 transport which was supposed to use newer more fuel-efficient design and engines.


Y30 will make maiden flight at year 2020. Y-9 is definitely cheaper than C130, but less payload and range.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

wanglaokan said:


> Y-9 is definitely cheaper than C130, but less payload and range.



okay, this is good....
how good is Y-9 in terms of maintenance?.... can it be maintained anywhere in the jungle of Africa where there is no industrial backup?.... thats gonna be crucial if we want those to be useful for our Congo operations.... Bangladesh is also considering Mi-28 and Mi-171Sh helos with Congo in mind....



Khan saheb said:


> C 295 is more in the class of lightweight -Medium Range aircraft ; while C130 is a medium weight - medium range aircraft.



as Bangladesh is looking for a two-engine aircraft, this certainly gives another perspective.... its the purpose that needs to be taken into account.... C-130 and Y-9 are four-engine aircraft.... much larger.... with totally different purpose.... 

20-30 tons category and 10 ton category are not the same.... we can also think of the difference in philosophy of carrying more than 100 people in one aircraft, or distributing them among more than one with each having capacity to carry 40 to 70 people .... different options may be desired for different purpose...

range is another issue though.... that depends on how far you need to go and on what purpose.... your purpose may determine whether you'll be using another airport on the way or not.... if yes, shorter range is okay.... if not, much longer range required....

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## Arthur

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> as Bangladesh is looking for a two-engine aircraft, this certainly gives another perspective.... its the purpose that needs to be taken into account.... C-130 and Y-9 are four-engine aircraft.... much larger.... with totally different purpose..


I didn't knew about the two engine thingy before. Any source you know about that we don't?

On that notion BAF 'S An 32 fleet is also needs to be replaced. Those are already somewhat 30 or more years old. I don't know how much life is left in them.



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> 20-30 tons category and 10 ton category are not the same.... we can also think of the difference in philosophy of carrying more than 100 people in one aircraft, or distributing them among more than one with each having capacity to carry 40 to 70 people .... different options may be desired for different purpose...


Of course... by definition.
IMHO while twine engine aircraft might suitable for army in their airborne troop operation. But for airforce it's not only about droping troops.

It's also hugely about how much war spporting materials & equipments you can carry to how much distances.

While C 295 will carry x amount to m distance,C130 carry almost 2x amount to m distance. You see the difference. While this weight to distance ratio is very relative ; but hands down you need both to fill their own shoes. It can't be expected of one do the job of other.

Last of all how much airframe you expect to maintain. How you plan to support a large amount of twine engine airframes? Where you will keep them? We can't just turn the whole airport to transport aircraft hub,we have limited spac. Also a large fleet is vulnerable in sense that you can't easily move or hide them.

A bigger airframe is there for a reason. Don't you think AFs that fought two World wars spent considerable amount of time thinking before inventing the wheel? Larger aircrafts cuts your maintenance & logistics hassle for 'x' amount of cargo displacement, if you only have small transporters in fleet. You will be spending more on MS&L just to displace the same amount of cargo, that could have been done much efficiently with a mix fleet of large & small aircraft.



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> range is another issue though.... that depends on how far you need to go and on what purpose.... your purpose may determine whether you'll be using another airport on the way or not.... if yes, shorter range is okay.... if not, much longer range required....


Very logical. No argument their.

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## Flynn Swagmire

We should consider AN-178 to replace AN-32. I think its a good aircraft...

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## Major 13625

Hey guys we need cheap cost effective long range UAVs! Remember the first gulf war? First US sends UAVs to test those Iraqi radars , Israel also used them to make Egypt firing its hole SAM stock to those UAVs pretending as fighters. I think a few hundreds of UAVs can breach any air defense system. UAVs could act as fake targets and enemy could fire its SAMs on it which will clear the path for next fighters. Expert opinion expecting?



Khan saheb said:


> C 295 is more in the class of lightweight -Medium Range aircraft ; while C130 is a medium weight - medium range aircraft.
> 
> Considering BAF few years ago requested additional C130, I believe they want something in that weight class. And that EDA request is not going to materialise, as I have mentioned last year. So new platform is the way I believe.
> 
> My choice aircraft would be the Shaanxi Y-9
> 
> @wanglaokan bro, do you know the unit cost of Y 9?
> @Bilal9 Remember this discussion?
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-154#post-8920748


Khan saheb do u know how much time left for our AN32s? will BAF replace them! or will they serve further?

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## monitor

Khan saheb said:


> I didn't knew about the two engine thingy before. Any source you know about that we don't?
> 
> On that notion BAF 'S An 32 fleet is also needs to be replaced. Those are already somewhat 30 or more years old. I don't know how much life is left in them.
> 
> 
> Of course... by definition.
> IMHO while twine engine aircraft might suitable for army in their airborne troop operation. But for airforce it's not only about droping troops.
> 
> It's also hugely about how much war spporting materials & equipments you can carry to how much distances.
> 
> While C 295 will carry x amount to m distance,C130 carry almost 2x amount to m distance. You see the difference. While this weight to distance ratio is very relative ; but hands down you need both to fill their own shoes. It can't be expected of one do the job of other.
> 
> Last of all how much airframe you expect to maintain. How you plan to support a large amount of twine engine airframes? Where you will keep them? We can't just turn the whole airport to transport aircraft hub,we have limited spac. Also a large fleet is vulnerable in sense that you can't easily move or hide them.
> 
> A bigger airframe is there for a reason. Don't you think AFs that fought two World wars spent considerable amount of time thinking before inventing the wheel? Larger aircrafts cuts your maintenance & logistics hassle for 'x' amount of cargo displacement, if you only have small transporters in fleet. You will be spending more on MS&L just to displace the same amount of cargo, that could have been done much efficiently with a mix fleet of large & small aircraft.
> 
> 
> Very logical. No argument their.





OrdinaryGenius said:


> We should consider AN-178 to replace AN-32. I think its a good aircraft...









We are buying C-295 to either supplement or totally replace our aging an-32 .

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## 帅的一匹

OrdinaryGenius said:


> We should consider AN-178 to replace AN-32. I think its a good aircraft...


I think China also procured AN178?


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Khan saheb said:


> It's also hugely about how much war spporting materials & equipments you can carry to how much distances.



well, that depends on the purpose.... where in the map you wanna carry goods.... talked about the distance and stop-over requirements above....



Khan saheb said:


> Last of all how much airframe you expect to maintain. How you plan to support a large amount of twine engine airframes? Where you will keep them?



four engines mean four engines to maintain.... more people, more effort.... need accommodation and equipment space for more people..... in a remote place like African jungle, this counts....



Khan saheb said:


> We can't just turn the whole airport to transport aircraft hub,we have limited spac. Also a large fleet is vulnerable in sense that you can't easily move or hide them.



sorry brother, not agreeing here in case of space.... you can't just say because of lack of space we wouldn't have airports or have lesser number of aircraft.... thats the argument used by the Indian subversion in Bangladesh.... 



Khan saheb said:


> A bigger airframe is there for a reason. Don't you think AFs that fought two World wars spent considerable amount of time thinking before inventing the wheel? Larger aircrafts cuts your maintenance & logistics hassle for 'x' amount of cargo displacement, if you only have small transporters in fleet. You will be spending more on MS&L just to displace the same amount of cargo, that could have been done much efficiently with a mix fleet of large & small aircraft.



there is no argument about the mix of aircraft.... fully agree....

but bigger aircraft isn't just about carrying more cargo.... its also about the size of the cargo and the condition of the runway and maintenance facilities.... this again brings us back to the question - where we want our aircraft to land and on what purpose....



Major 13625 said:


> UAVs could act as fake targets and enemy could fire its SAMs on it which will clear the path for next fighters. Expert opinion expecting?



that time has passed, buddy.... UAVs do much more today..... 
for the SAMs, there's a good lot of SEAD equipment and tactics available today.... I don't think UAV is an option today...

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## Major 13625

* Бангладеш может купить эскадрилью российских вертолетов Ми-35М *
Вооруженные силы Бангладеш намерены приобрести российские боевые вертолеты Ми-35М. Всего будет заказано примерно 12 таких машин.
Это будет сделано в рамках плана развития бангладешской армии Forces Goal 2030. Планируется закупить шесть Ми-35М, а впоследствии, вероятно, еще шесть единиц. Ими будут оснащена недавно сформированная группа армейской авиации сухопутных войск Бангладеш, пишет местный ресурс Bdmilitary.com.

Как передает военный блог bmpd, в минобороны страны рассматривалсь несколько разных вариантов вертолетов для войск — в том числе, американский Bell AH-1Z, турецкий TAI T129 и китайский Z-10. Однако выбор по совокупности критериев, включая наличие опыта боевого применения, боевые характеристики, стоимость, и доступность запасных частей, был сделан в пользу «россиянина» Ми-35М.



Обслуживание винтокрылых аппаратов наладят на предприятии Bangabadhu Aeronautical Centre. Оно уже имеет сертификат на сервисные работы по вертолетам семейства Ми-17.

Ранее бангладешские военные уже получили из России шесть транспортно-боевых вертолетов Ми-171Ш.

Вертолет Ми-35М предназначен для уничтожения бронетанковой техники и живой силы противника, оказания огневой поддержки подразделениям Сухопутных войск и десантам, эвакуации раненых, а также перевозки грузов в кабине и на внешней подвеске. На вооружении вертолета — противотанковые ракеты «Штурм-В», неуправляемые ракеты С-8 калибра 80 мм и С-24 калибра 240 мм, один 12,7-мм и два 7,62-мм пулемета, 30-мм гранатомет и бомбы весом от 50 до 500 килограммов.

https://defence.ru/editors-choice/bangladesh-mozhet-kupit-eskadrilyu-rossiiskikh-vertoletov-mi-35m/


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Major 13625 said:


> * Бангладеш может купить эскадрилью российских вертолетов Ми-35М *
> Вооруженные силы Бангладеш намерены приобрести российские боевые вертолеты Ми-35М. Всего будет заказано примерно 12 таких машин.
> Это будет сделано в рамках плана развития бангладешской армии Forces Goal 2030. Планируется закупить шесть Ми-35М, а впоследствии, вероятно, еще шесть единиц. Ими будут оснащена недавно сформированная группа армейской авиации сухопутных войск Бангладеш, пишет местный ресурс Bdmilitary.com.
> 
> Как передает военный блог bmpd, в минобороны страны рассматривалсь несколько разных вариантов вертолетов для войск — в том числе, американский Bell AH-1Z, турецкий TAI T129 и китайский Z-10. Однако выбор по совокупности критериев, включая наличие опыта боевого применения, боевые характеристики, стоимость, и доступность запасных частей, был сделан в пользу «россиянина» Ми-35М.
> 
> 
> 
> Обслуживание винтокрылых аппаратов наладят на предприятии Bangabadhu Aeronautical Centre. Оно уже имеет сертификат на сервисные работы по вертолетам семейства Ми-17.
> 
> Ранее бангладешские военные уже получили из России шесть транспортно-боевых вертолетов Ми-171Ш.
> 
> Вертолет Ми-35М предназначен для уничтожения бронетанковой техники и живой силы противника, оказания огневой поддержки подразделениям Сухопутных войск и десантам, эвакуации раненых, а также перевозки грузов в кабине и на внешней подвеске. На вооружении вертолета — противотанковые ракеты «Штурм-В», неуправляемые ракеты С-8 калибра 80 мм и С-24 калибра 240 мм, один 12,7-мм и два 7,62-мм пулемета, 30-мм гранатомет и бомбы весом от 50 до 500 килограммов.
> 
> https://defence.ru/editors-choice/bangladesh-mozhet-kupit-eskadrilyu-rossiiskikh-vertoletov-mi-35m/



translation of first part:
"Bangladesh may buy a squadron of Russian Mi-35 m
Bangladesh armed forces intend to purchase Russian Mi-35 m attack helicopters. All will be ordered approximately 12 such machines.
This will be done in the context of the development plan of the Bangladesh Army Forces 2030 Goal. It is planned to purchase six Mi-35 m, and subsequently, probably still six units. They are equipped with a newly formed group of Army aviation, the army of Bangladesh, says a local resource Bdmilitary.com."

this was actually a BDMilitary report, not an independent Russian source, unless BDMilitary posted it after getting tipped from Russia.... anyway, the point is, Mi-35 is an old platform and concept..... I don't see a real purpose of Mi-35 against modern armor.... its use is more in the COIN role, which is not a real priority for us at the moment.... 

COIN is for a country that is plagued with internal troubles.... but heavy anti-armor helos tell everyone that the country is giving a look towards the potential enemy that wishes to show a red-eye.... Mi-28 is thus for a strong country; while Mi-35 is for an internally weak country....

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## TopCat

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> translation of first part:
> "Bangladesh may buy a squadron of Russian Mi-35 m
> Bangladesh armed forces intend to purchase Russian Mi-35 m attack helicopters. All will be ordered approximately 12 such machines.
> This will be done in the context of the development plan of the Bangladesh Army Forces 2030 Goal. It is planned to purchase six Mi-35 m, and subsequently, probably still six units. They are equipped with a newly formed group of Army aviation, the army of Bangladesh, says a local resource Bdmilitary.com."
> 
> this was actually a BDMilitary report, not an independent Russian source, unless BDMilitary posted it after getting tipped from Russia.... anyway, the point is, Mi-35 is an old platform and concept..... I don't see a real purpose of Mi-35 against modern armor.... its use is more in the COIN role, which is not a real priority for us at the moment....
> 
> COIN is for a country that is plagued with internal troubles.... but heavy anti-armor helos tell everyone that the country is giving a look towards the potential enemy that wishes to show a red-eye.... Mi-28 is thus for a strong country; while Mi-35 is for an internally weak country....



Mi-35 and Mi-24 can be used in both transporting and attacking. Very useful for newly formed army aviation.
Russia used Mi24 far more than mi-28 in Syria.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

TopCat said:


> Mi-35 and Mi-24 can be used in both transporting and attacking. Very useful for newly formed army aviation.
> Russia used Mi24 far more than mi-28 in Syria.



carrying 8 troops inside an attack helicopter is a Cold War concept, not applicable today..... Russia used the Mi-24 in Syria because Syrian opposition wasn't using many tanks.... Syrian Army hardly required any anti-tank missiles because of that.... for Russia, Syria was more of a COIN operation, where Mi-24 was needed....

Bangladesh's reality is different.... Bangladesh Army is being equipped with thousands of anti-tank weapons because of the threat perception.... a heavy attack helicopter like the Mi-28 goes with this threat perception....

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## Major 13625

By 2022-24 the Bangladesh Air Force will induct the FD-2000 Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile system. It promises to be a strategic game changer for the country's air defence network, which will have LY-80E running already.

The FD-2000 (export version of HQ-9) is an advanced long-range air defense missile weapon system designed and manufactured by the Chinese Defense Company CPMIEC (China Precision Machinery Import & Export Corporation). It can perform air-defense engagement mission in massive air raid under intense electronic jamming. It can intercept not only aircraft, armed helicopter and UAV, but also cruise missile, air-to-ground missile and stand-off precision guided bomb. The FD-2000 is used as air-defense system to protect political, military and economic facilities. With two-level of command and control capability, it can command other air defense weapons to form a layered aor defense system. The FD-2000 was unveiled for the first time to the public at the 8th Zhuhai Airshow in 2012. The export version of HQ-9 provides extra anti-stealth capability by incorporating YLC-20 passive sensor as an option.

*Variants 
- FD-2000: *export version of HQ-9 with Anti stealth capabilities.
*- FT-2000:* with passive homing-all-the-way variant of the HQF-91 LR-SAM, which operates in conjunction with a ground-based DWL-002 passive surveillance system (PSS), which has been developed by CETC International Co Ltd.
*- HHQ9*: naval version
*- HQ-9B:* with extra range and dual seeker.

*Missile launcher unit*
The FD-2000 Launcher Erector Truck (TEL) has four missile containers. In firing position, the missiles containers are placed at the vertical to the rear side of the truck, two stabilizers are deployed at the rear and center of the chassis.
*Missiles*
The HongQi 9 (HQ-9) is a two-stage missile. The first stage has a diameter of 700 mm and the 2nd stage 560 mm, with a total mass of almost 2 tons and a length of 6.8m. The missile is armed with a 180 kg warhead, has a maximum speed of Mach 4.2. and has a maximum range of 125 km up to an altitude of 27 km. The missile has a proximity fuse with an effective range of 35 m, which goes active when the missile is 5km away from its target.
*Truck tractor *
The missile containers are mounted on a Chinese Taian TA-5380 8x8 truck chassis which is based on the Russian truck the MAZ-543. The TAS-5380 is powered by an air-cooled diesel engine.
*Command and control vehicles*
A battery of FD-2000 consists:
- 1 Command and coordination vehicle
- 6 Command and Control vehicle
- 6 Target designation radar
- 6 guidance radar vehicle
- 48 Missile launching vehicle
- 198 missile in conatiner
- 1 set of positioning and orientation vehicle
- 1 set of communication vehicle
- 1 set of power supply vehicle
- 1 set of support equipment



Major 13625 said:


> By 2022-24 the Bangladesh Air Force will induct the FD-2000 Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile system. It promises to be a strategic game changer for the country's air defence network, which will have LY-80E running already.
> 
> The FD-2000 (export version of HQ-9) is an advanced long-range air defense missile weapon system designed and manufactured by the Chinese Defense Company CPMIEC (China Precision Machinery Import & Export Corporation). It can perform air-defense engagement mission in massive air raid under intense electronic jamming. It can intercept not only aircraft, armed helicopter and UAV, but also cruise missile, air-to-ground missile and stand-off precision guided bomb. The FD-2000 is used as air-defense system to protect political, military and economic facilities. With two-level of command and control capability, it can command other air defense weapons to form a layered aor defense system. The FD-2000 was unveiled for the first time to the public at the 8th Zhuhai Airshow in 2012. The export version of HQ-9 provides extra anti-stealth capability by incorporating YLC-20 passive sensor as an option.
> 
> *Variants
> - FD-2000: *export version of HQ-9 with Anti stealth capabilities.
> *- FT-2000:* with passive homing-all-the-way variant of the HQF-91 LR-SAM, which operates in conjunction with a ground-based DWL-002 passive surveillance system (PSS), which has been developed by CETC International Co Ltd.
> *- HHQ9*: naval version
> *- HQ-9B:* with extra range and dual seeker.
> 
> *Missile launcher unit*
> The FD-2000 Launcher Erector Truck (TEL) has four missile containers. In firing position, the missiles containers are placed at the vertical to the rear side of the truck, two stabilizers are deployed at the rear and center of the chassis.
> *Missiles*
> The HongQi 9 (HQ-9) is a two-stage missile. The first stage has a diameter of 700 mm and the 2nd stage 560 mm, with a total mass of almost 2 tons and a length of 6.8m. The missile is armed with a 180 kg warhead, has a maximum speed of Mach 4.2. and has a maximum range of 125 km up to an altitude of 27 km. The missile has a proximity fuse with an effective range of 35 m, which goes active when the missile is 5km away from its target.
> *Truck tractor *
> The missile containers are mounted on a Chinese Taian TA-5380 8x8 truck chassis which is based on the Russian truck the MAZ-543. The TAS-5380 is powered by an air-cooled diesel engine.
> *Command and control vehicles*
> A battery of FD-2000 consists:
> - 1 Command and coordination vehicle
> - 6 Command and Control vehicle
> - 6 Target designation radar
> - 6 guidance radar vehicle
> - 48 Missile launching vehicle
> - 198 missile in conatiner
> - 1 set of positioning and orientation vehicle
> - 1 set of communication vehicle
> - 1 set of power supply vehicle
> - 1 set of support equipment


The air defence efforts are led by an officer of Lt Gen rank under the Central Integrated Air Defence System. CIADS is composed of a 5-layer air defence network comprising of multi-tier GBADS.


Type 90 AAG
FN-16 MANPAD
FM-90 SHORAD
FM-3000 SHORAD
LY-80E/D MRSAM
FK-3 MR-LRSAM
FD-2000 LRSAM

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## Species

Major 13625 said:


> By 2022-24 the Bangladesh Air Force will induct the FD-2000 Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile system. It promises to be a strategic game changer for the country's air defence network, which will have LY-80E running already.
> 
> The FD-2000 (export version of HQ-9) is an advanced long-range air defense missile weapon system designed and manufactured by the Chinese Defense Company CPMIEC (China Precision Machinery Import & Export Corporation). It can perform air-defense engagement mission in massive air raid under intense electronic jamming. It can intercept not only aircraft, armed helicopter and UAV, but also cruise missile, air-to-ground missile and stand-off precision guided bomb. The FD-2000 is used as air-defense system to protect political, military and economic facilities. With two-level of command and control capability, it can command other air defense weapons to form a layered aor defense system. The FD-2000 was unveiled for the first time to the public at the 8th Zhuhai Airshow in 2012. The export version of HQ-9 provides extra anti-stealth capability by incorporating YLC-20 passive sensor as an option.
> 
> *Variants
> - FD-2000: *export version of HQ-9 with Anti stealth capabilities.
> *- FT-2000:* with passive homing-all-the-way variant of the HQF-91 LR-SAM, which operates in conjunction with a ground-based DWL-002 passive surveillance system (PSS), which has been developed by CETC International Co Ltd.
> *- HHQ9*: naval version
> *- HQ-9B:* with extra range and dual seeker.
> 
> *Missile launcher unit*
> The FD-2000 Launcher Erector Truck (TEL) has four missile containers. In firing position, the missiles containers are placed at the vertical to the rear side of the truck, two stabilizers are deployed at the rear and center of the chassis.
> *Missiles*
> The HongQi 9 (HQ-9) is a two-stage missile. The first stage has a diameter of 700 mm and the 2nd stage 560 mm, with a total mass of almost 2 tons and a length of 6.8m. The missile is armed with a 180 kg warhead, has a maximum speed of Mach 4.2. and has a maximum range of 125 km up to an altitude of 27 km. The missile has a proximity fuse with an effective range of 35 m, which goes active when the missile is 5km away from its target.
> *Truck tractor *
> The missile containers are mounted on a Chinese Taian TA-5380 8x8 truck chassis which is based on the Russian truck the MAZ-543. The TAS-5380 is powered by an air-cooled diesel engine.
> *Command and control vehicles*
> A battery of FD-2000 consists:
> - 1 Command and coordination vehicle
> - 6 Command and Control vehicle
> - 6 Target designation radar
> - 6 guidance radar vehicle
> - 48 Missile launching vehicle
> - 198 missile in conatiner
> - 1 set of positioning and orientation vehicle
> - 1 set of communication vehicle
> - 1 set of power supply vehicle
> - 1 set of support equipment
> 
> 
> The air defence efforts are led by an officer of Lt Gen rank under the Central Integrated Air Defence System. CIADS is composed of a 5-layer air defence network comprising of multi-tier GBADS.
> 
> 
> Type 90 AAG
> FN-16 MANPAD
> FM-90 SHORAD
> FM-3000 SHORAD
> LY-80E/D MRSAM
> FK-3 MR-LRSAM
> FD-2000 LRSAM



News about FD-2000 is something new!

@wanglaokan


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## Major 13625



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## 帅的一匹

Species said:


> News about FD-2000 is something new!
> 
> @wanglaokan


FD2000 is a state of art, BD must go for it. Strong recommendation.

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## Flynn Swagmire

wanglaokan said:


> FD2000 is a state of art, BD must go for it. Strong recommendation.


A question bro, if HQ9 is good enough, then why China purchasing S400 from Russia?


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## 帅的一匹

OrdinaryGenius said:


> A question bro, if HQ9 is good enough, then why China purchasing S400 from Russia?


I have a BMW, it can't prevent me buying a Mercedez. Russia boast how good is S400. We buy some and check whether it's really as good as they promote. To study your competitor is a way to make progress and set up sales tactics accordingly. 知己知彼，百战不殆. Means you will win every war if you knows your enemy's pros and cons.

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## Sine Nomine

@wanglaokan bro any idea about max J-10b combat radius on internal fuel.


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## 帅的一匹

قناص said:


> @wanglaokan bro any idea about max J-10b combat radius on internal fuel.


1250KM with full load.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

wanglaokan said:


> 知己知彼，百战不殆. Means you will win every war if you knows your enemy's pros and cons.



well said, brother....
let me share another one with you....

you'll win every war if both warring parties belong to you....

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## 帅的一匹

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well said, brother....
> let me share another one with you....
> 
> you'll win every war if both warring parties belong to you....


China government is calm and pragmatic, they never hesitate on something might help us building up advantages. We have money and Russia doesn't.

All we need to do is get the best they have and keep ours at the darkness side.

Any update on J10b to BAF?

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## Sine Nomine

wanglaokan said:


> 1250KM with full load.


And full load is 6000+?


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

wanglaokan said:


> Any update on J10b to BAF?



well, we though you could give another perspective on that.... 
any ToT possibilities there?..... at least an MRO facility is a basic need....

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## 帅的一匹

قناص said:


> And full load is 6000+?


7000KG



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, we though you could give another perspective on that....
> any ToT possibilities there?..... at least an MRO facility is a basic need....


If it comes at 50, MRO is a must. An assembly line will be just too expensive, it depends on BAF's determination.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

wanglaokan said:


> If it comes at 50, MRO is a must. An assembly line will be just too expensive, it depends on BAF's determination.



Bangladesh is determined to have its own aircraft..... and that requires some early work.... building up MRO centers has happened for several aircraft models.... its time to move on to the next level.... I hope there's likely to be some determination in that line....

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## monitor

The Bangladesh Air Force purchase the Selex RAT-31DL air defence radar from Italy. The radar station is being built at Barisal to monitor the approaches from the Bay of Bengal. This long range radar has an instrumented range of over 500 km and is the longest ranging radar of the Bangladesh Air Force. Bangladesh Army and Air Force are upgrading their multi-level air defence network from the ground up using Italian, Chinese, Russian and Belarusian technologies.




Like
More update : Bangladesh air force will buy another 5 MI-17 helicopter from Russia. Deal were sign during FM Mahmud ali's visit to Russia. And army too will by more MI-117SH for army airborne command.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

any knows about the update news of BAF fighter aircraft procurement 8+4 & J 10b. both matter are silent!!!


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## bdslph

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> any knows about the update news of BAF fighter aircraft procurement 8+4 & J 10b. both matter are silent!!!



this was just rumor talking and plus some new reports , news that is all no deal is signed until now its not that simple


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

the new Mi-28 looks cool....

"The armoured cabin can withstand 20 mm calibre guns and the composite main rotor blade can safely complete flight even after being hit by 20-30 mm caliber shells. Moreover, the fuel system can suppress explosion or ignition of fuel tank."




http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2016/10/russia-commence-mi28-flight-testing-of.html

meanwhile.... South African Rooivalk helicopters prove the usefulness of attack helicopters over Congo....





"Early reports from sources in the area indicate that the action was successful, with the Rooivalks’ tactical approach through the clouds taking the M23 defenders by surprise and their rocket fire being accurate enough to disperse them and destroy one of the 14.5 mm anti-aircraft guns that had been previously used to fire at the Rooivalks and other helicopters."
https://www.africandefence.net/after-23-years-rooivalks-fire-first-shots-in-drc/

"Two South African Air Force Rooivalk attack helicopters were used to provide close air support while an Oryx hoisted crewmembers aboard with another providing support"
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...ash-in-the-drc&catid=124:military-helicopters





"Our combat helicopters have inflicted losses in the ranks of the ADF (Allied Democratic Forces) and the operations are continuing," he said.
"MONUSCO attacked the ADF with combat helicopters in the depths of Semuliki", a village near the Ugandan border, Congolese military spokesman Mak Hazukay said. 
http://www.newvision.co.ug/new_visi...tack-adf-rebels-dr-congo#sthash.Z9IGuGXn.dpuf

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## Species

wanglaokan said:


> China government is calm and pragmatic, they never hesitate on something might help us building up advantages. We have money and Russia doesn't.
> 
> All we need to do is get the best they have and keep ours at the darkness side.
> 
> Any update on J10b to BAF?



14 will be procured in the first phase to replace the F-7MBs.

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## Michael Corleone

Species said:


> 14 will be procured in the first phase to replace the F-7MBs.


Are they retired yet or nah? Man I am disturbed to see those rust buckets in service still. My profound hate arises from how many young pilots died because of those. :/ back when I still dreamt of becoming a fighter pilot/childhood days


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Are they retired yet or nah? Man I am disturbed to see those rust buckets in service still. My profound hate arises from how many young pilots died because of those. :/ back when I still dreamt of becoming a fighter pilot/childhood days



how many F-7MBs crashed?


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## 帅的一匹

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Are they retired yet or nah? Man I am disturbed to see those rust buckets in service still. My profound hate arises from how many young pilots died because of those. :/ back when I still dreamt of becoming a fighter pilot/childhood days


too age to fly. I think J7BM has lower crash rate than IAF mig21? Hope J10 will replace it soon.


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> how many F-7MBs crashed?


11 are left as far as I know... 16 were bought.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> 11 are left as far as I know... 16 were bought.



hmm.... total of five crashed in 26 years.... 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2015.... 
three pilots lost their lives in the process....

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## masud



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## Arthur



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## Arthur



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## Major 13625

The road in Ramu Cantonment, Cox's Bazar is made as a runway. An Army Aviation Cessna aircraft already land and took off using this road. 
The length of this highway strip is about 7000 feet. Thus, it is possible to use this strip during emergency for military aircraft and fighter jets.
.
Ramu Cantonment is the newest army base located in Ramu of Cox's Bazar, Bangladesh and home for 10th Infantry Division, two infantry brigade, one artillery brigade & other various units of Bangladesh Army. It is one of the most strategically important army installment of our country against Myanmar.

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## Michael Corleone

If it wasn't my eyes or me deciding to drop Air Force career plan


Major 13625 said:


> The road in Ramu Cantonment, Cox's Bazar is made as a runway. An Army Aviation Cessna aircraft already land and took off using this road.
> The length of this highway strip is about 7000 feet. Thus, it is possible to use this strip during emergency for military aircraft and fighter jets.
> .
> Ramu Cantonment is the newest army base located in Ramu of Cox's Bazar, Bangladesh and home for 10th Infantry Division, two infantry brigade, one artillery brigade & other various units of Bangladesh Army. It is one of the most strategically important army installment of our country against Myanmar.
> View attachment 394137


would love to see mig or any fighter videos taking off from this road.


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## BDforever

Major 13625 said:


> The road in Ramu Cantonment, Cox's Bazar is made as a runway. An Army Aviation Cessna aircraft already land and took off using this road.
> The length of this highway strip is about 7000 feet. Thus, it is possible to use this strip during emergency for military aircraft and fighter jets.
> .
> Ramu Cantonment is the newest army base located in Ramu of Cox's Bazar, Bangladesh and home for 10th Infantry Division, two infantry brigade, one artillery brigade & other various units of Bangladesh Army. It is one of the most strategically important army installment of our country against Myanmar.
> View attachment 394137


first thing come to my mind is driving my car on this beautiful road

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> first thing come to my mind is driving my car on this beautiful road


Model?

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## BDforever

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Model?


Nissan X Trail may be

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## Michael Corleone

BDforever said:


> Nissan X Trail may be


Thank god you didn't commit blasphemy by buying that Hedious car called Nissan zuke.

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> Nissan X Trail may be


A good offroader... Base or with added options?

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## BDforever

OrdinaryGenius said:


> A good offroader... Base or with added options?


with additional options

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> with additional options


Total cost bruh?

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## BDforever

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Total cost bruh?


forgot ahem

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> forgot ahem

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## khanasifm

AFM article on baf not showing A5 sqn 1 mig plus 3 f7s sqn at I guess low strength ???? All with less than 14 aircraft I am guessing ??

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## Arthur

khanasifm said:


> AFM article on baf not showing A5 sqn 1 mig plus 3 f7s sqn at I guess low strength ???? All with less than 14 aircraft I am guessing ??


2 F 7 Squadrons. With 16 each. All A 5 's were retired few years ago, replaced by Yak 130.


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## khanasifm

A5s still around ????


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## khanasifm

Sorry missed the previous post


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## masud

last yak -130 unit.

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## Michael Corleone

masud said:


> last yak -130 unit.
> View attachment 394748


Hopefully the last to retire <3


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## Species

Unconfirmed reports are saying BAF is looking to buy KJ-200 AWACS.
@wanglaokan @Stuttgart001

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## UKBengali

Species said:


> Unconfirmed reports are saying BAF is looking to buy KJ-200 AWACS.
> @wanglaokan @Stuttgart001



Hope this is true as BD needs this to provide guidance to it's fighter aircraft.

I dont think BD will buy any more than 4 as only 1-2 aircraft will suffice to provide radar coverage over the whole of BD airspace!

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## Species

UKBengali said:


> Hope this is true as BD needs this to provide guidance to it's fighter aircraft.
> 
> I dont think BD will buy anymore than as only 1-2 aircraft will suffice to provide radar coverage over the whole of BD airspace!



Though it is still unconfirmed, but I think we should go for KJ-2000 at least.


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## 帅的一匹

Species said:


> Unconfirmed reports are saying BAF is looking to buy KJ-200 AWACS.
> @wanglaokan @Stuttgart001


Good for BAF! Why not KJ500?

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## masud



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## Species

wanglaokan said:


> Good for BAF! Why not KJ500?



Not sure bro, still unconfirmed. Perhaps they are evaluating the platform.


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## 帅的一匹

The latest version of KJ200, they installed a big AESA in the nose. So it can scan 360 degree now.

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## UKBengali

@wanglaokan :

Bro, do you know the unit cost of these planes?

BD would need around 4 I presume.


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## fatman17

UKBengali said:


> @wanglaokan :
> 
> Bro, do you know the unit cost of these planes?
> 
> BD would need around 4 I presume.


50 to 70 mill $ per copy is my guess

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## Dean Winchester

fatman17 said:


> 50 to 70 mill $ per copy is my guess


Atleast 150-200 million for kj-200.

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## 帅的一匹

fatman17 said:


> 50 to 70 mill $ per copy is my guess


The unit price of ZDK03 to PAF is 300 millions USD.



Dean Winchester said:


> Atleast 150-200 million for kj-200.


Bingo

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## fatman17

wanglaokan said:


> The unit price of ZDK03 to PAF is 300 millions USD.
> 
> 
> Bingo


273 mill $ for 4 aircrafts

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## Stuttgart001

I doubt BD would purchase KJ-200.
You know, KJ-200 and KJ-2000 is the second generation AWACS of China which has served for ten years , while KJ-3000 and KJ-500 the third generation are inducted by China military force now.
It is more reasonable to think about KJ-500.

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## 帅的一匹

fatman17 said:


> 273 mill $ for 4 aircrafts


I checked it again, you are right.

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## Stuttgart001

fatman17 said:


> 273 mill $ for 4 aircrafts


Yeah, it is alleged that 4 costed $278 mil on Chinese website.

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## masud

i like this...............
SAAB-2020.......AEW&C. 





bye the way which platfrom is more capable compare to saab 2000 vs kj-500, i am interested to know............


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## Stuttgart001

masud said:


> i like this...............
> SAAB-2020.......AEW&C.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bye the way which platfrom is more capable compare to saab 2000 vs kj-500, i am interested to know............


I don't know the real capability of SAAB2000 AEW&C.
But there's two thing I am sure:
Firstly, the AESA of KJ-500 is comprised of more T/R modules than that of SAAB-2000.d
Secondly, the platform Y-9 of KJ-500 is bigger than the SAAB 2000, which means more instrument and more power of radiation of KJ-500.

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## masud

Stuttgart001 said:


> I don't know the real capability of SAAB2000 AEW&C.
> But there's two thing I am sure:
> Firstly, the AESA of KJ-500 is comprised of more T/R modules than that of SAAB-2000.d
> Secondly, the platform Y-9 of KJ-500 is bigger than the SAAB 2000, which means more instrument and more power of radiation of KJ-500.


probable our pakistani brother can shade some knowladge on this topic, since they are operating the both type of aew&c........


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## Stuttgart001

masud said:


> probable our pakistani brother can shade some knowladge on this topic, since they are operating the both type of aew&c........


What Pakistan has is ZDK-03 ,not KJ-500.


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## 帅的一匹

masud said:


> i like this...............
> SAAB-2020.......AEW&C.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bye the way which platfrom is more capable compare to saab 2000 vs kj-500, i am interested to know............


KJ500 is a generation ahead, it has digital phased array radar.

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## masud

Stuttgart001 said:


> What Pakistan has is ZDK-03 ,not KJ-500.


When we are buying 2 unit we always prefer to european system, as like navys Dornier Do-228NG i think our air force will also like to buy there system from europe too.
BUT if china gave discount on there awan&c then WHY NOT..........D


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## Stuttgart001

masud said:


> When we are buying 2 unit we always prefer to european system, as like navys Dornier Do-228NG i think our air force will also like to buy there system from europe too.
> BUT if china gave discount on there awan&c then WHY NOT..........D


The price of SAAB 2000 AE&C is $160 mil per unit .
I think BD would make the best choice catering to the need of his military force.

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## masud

Stuttgart001 said:


> The price of SAAB 2000 AE&C is $160 mil per unit .
> I think BD would make the best choice catering to the need of his military force.


$160 mil per unit is simple too much for us i think..............
ok the chines option look batter to me...............

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## razgriz19

masud said:


> probable our pakistani brother can shade some knowladge on this topic, since they are operating the both type of aew&c........


PAF operates Y-8 based aircraft not Y-9. KJ500 is based on Y-9 if I'm correct. 
But keep in mind PAF aircraft are fitted with P&W engines and not the chinese.
The aircraft itself definitely produces more power so it can run more powerful systems.

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## khanasifm

razgriz19 said:


> PAF operates Y-8 based aircraft not Y-9. KJ500 is based on Y-9 if I'm correct.
> But keep in mind PAF aircraft are fitted with P&W engines and not the chinese.
> The aircraft itself definitely produces more power so it can run more powerful systems.



It's y-8 iii which was the basis of y9 so close enough

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## 帅的一匹

khanasifm said:


> It's y-8 iii which was the basis of y9 so close enough


To be honest, KJ500 is way powerful than ZDK03.Generation ahead. If I can name a thing compared to it, maybe E2D. The logic of because I have a American engine so it's better, for me, is weird.

China is a country leading in the development of Radar technology. If we call ourself third, no one can claim itself second.

The DAR on the KJ500 is the best in Asia, that's it.

The engine(WJ-6c) of Y9 has 25% increase in power than WJ-6 engine of Y8. It also has 60% increase in range than Y8. It can stay in the air for more than 8 hours, same with KJ2000.

If BAF want to Induct AWACS, I suggest them to go for the best. Being the best or nothing.

Three KJ500 will do all the magic for BAF.

Three KJ500 and 50 J10b will make BAF one of the best in the sub continent.

The prosperous and robust economy of BD shall financially afford it.

@asad71 @UKBengali @BDforever

i want to see a kicking *** strong BAF there, it fits the very interets of China.

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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> To be honest, KJ500 is way powerful than ZDK03.Generation ahead. If I can name a thing compared to it, maybe E2D. The logic of because I have a American engine so it's better, for me, is weird.
> 
> China is a country leading in the development of Radar technology. If we call ourself third, no one can claim itself second.
> 
> The DAR on the KJ500 is the best in Asia, that's it.
> 
> The engine(WJ-6c) of Y9 has 25% increase in power than WJ-6 engine of Y8. It also has 60% increase in range than Y8. It can stay in the air for more than 8 hours, same with KJ2000.
> 
> If BAF want to Induct AWACS, I suggest them to go for the best. Being the best or nothing.
> 
> Three KJ500 will do all the magic for BAF.
> 
> Three KJ500 and 50 J10b will make BAF one of the best in the sub continent.
> 
> The prosperous and robust economy of BD shall financially afford it.
> 
> @asad71 @UKBengali @BDforever
> 
> i want to see a kicking *** strong BAF there, it fits the very interets of China.


This week, Myanmar’s deputy defense minister made a bit of a splash when he announced that the country’s military was considering purchasing submarines.
“Our neighbors have submarines and we want them as well…” Deputy Defense Minister Major General Myint New told reporters at a press conference according to The Irrawaddy, adding that the country’s military was considering acquiring the capability. “Submarines are necessary armed units for a navy.”

lol

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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


> This week, Myanmar’s deputy defense minister made a bit of a splash when he announced that the country’s military was considering purchasing submarines.
> “Our neighbors have submarines and we want them as well…” Deputy Defense Minister Major General Myint New told reporters at a press conference according to The Irrawaddy, adding that the country’s military was considering acquiring the capability. “Submarines are necessary armed units for a navy.”
> 
> lol


They have zero experience in operating subs.

Seems they wanna run a arm race with BD.

Seems they wanna run a arm race with BD.

Seems they wanna run a arm race with BD.

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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> They have zero experience in operating subs.
> 
> Seems they wanna run a arm race with BD.
> 
> Seems they wanna run a arm race with BD.


according to latest news they are buying SY-400 system from you

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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> To be honest, KJ500 is way powerful than ZDK03.Generation ahead. If I can name a thing compared to it, maybe E2D. The logic of because I have a American engine so it's better, for me, is weird.
> 
> China is a country leading in the development of Radar technology. If we call ourself third, no one can claim itself second.
> 
> The DAR on the KJ500 is the best in Asia, that's it.
> 
> The engine(WJ-6c) of Y9 has 25% increase in power than WJ-6 engine of Y8. It also has 60% increase in range than Y8. It can stay in the air for more than 8 hours, same with KJ2000.
> 
> If BAF want to Induct AWACS, I suggest them to go for the best. Being the best or nothing.
> 
> Three KJ500 will do all the magic for BAF.


No need to be so arbitrary.
We Chinese armament has its strength and weakness both, but apparently China is developing its military tech way faster than any other nation ,due to tons of money invested and hard working of our scientists and engineers and improvement of civil tech.

Taking the drones for example, Chinese drones may be a little behind US's in some aspects.
But the Chinese drones could contribute more much than US's drone with equal value in battle field.

When the tech of the armaments belong in the same classification, the quantity matters.
I think BD would make the best choice for BD after considering their need.

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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


> according to latest news they are buying SY-400 system from you


You have source.? I just Check, SY-400 is a Lone range multiple rocket launcher by VLS?


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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> You have source.? I just Check, SY-400 is a Lone range multiple rocket launcher by VLS?


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myanmar-looks-to-buy-chinese-sy-400-ballistic-missile-systems.493809/


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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


> This week, Myanmar’s deputy defense minister made a bit of a splash when he announced that the country’s military was considering purchasing submarines.
> “Our neighbors have submarines and we want them as well…” Deputy Defense Minister Major General Myint New told reporters at a press conference according to The Irrawaddy, adding that the country’s military was considering acquiring the capability. “Submarines are necessary armed units for a navy.”
> 
> lol


So, what's their plan?

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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> So, what's their plan?


no idea

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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


> no idea


 this is an attacking weapon system has 400KM range.

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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> this is an attacking weapon system has 400KM range.


Any weapon with the range more than or equal 300km could not be exported legally.
So i doubt it is real.

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## 帅的一匹

Stuttgart001 said:


> Any weapon with the range more than or equal 300km could not be exported legally.
> So i doubt it is real.


I highly doubt it. But 300Km is only meant to restrict missile, SY400 is a rocket launcher.

If China sell SY400 to Myanmar, can you see through any reason behind it?


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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> I highly doubt it. But 300Km is only meant to restrict missile, SY400 is a rocket launcher.
> 
> If China sell SY400 to Myanmar, can you see through any reason behind it?


I don't know. China is not like US who always links armament sales with political requirement.
If they insist buying it , it is hard for China to refuse cause Burmar is a friendly nation of China generally.


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## 帅的一匹

Stuttgart001 said:


> I don't know. China is not like US who always links armament sales with political requirement.
> If they insist buying it , it is hard for China to refuse cause Burmar is a friendly nation of China generally.


Yeh, you are right. BD can have it as well. But what if it turn to be a arm race?


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## Stuttgart001

wanglaokan said:


> Yeh, you are right. BD can have it as well. But what if it turn to be a arm race?


If they want an arm race , there will be one ,no matter who they buy weapon from.
A few nations like Russia and Ukraine could provide similar weapon.


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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> Yeh, you are right. BD can have it as well. But what if it turn to be a arm race?


BD will no way buy ballistic missiles as it has very limited use in battle field. We will rather use the money in SAM

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## Stuttgart001

TopCat said:


> BD will no way buy ballistic missiles as it has very limited use in battle field. We will rather use the money in SAM


The missile of advanced SAM is sometimes more expensive than its target short range ballistic missile.

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## TopCat

Stuttgart001 said:


> The missile of advanced SAM is sometimes more expensive than its target short range ballistic missile.



Thats true.. yet BD has no intention to fire missile to some population center in Myanmar. So ballistic missile has not use for us.
And how many MM could fire? 50-100!! then what will they do? Its only the weaker state which resort to missile program thinking they can destroy the enemy without leaving their living room. But real battle is fought in the war field not in the living room.

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## masud



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## 帅的一匹

masud said:


> View attachment 395162


whats the difference between WS2D and SY400?


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## Stuttgart001

TopCat said:


> Thats true.. yet BD has no intention to fire missile to some population center in Myanmar. So ballistic missile has not use for us.
> And how many MM could fire? 50-100!! then what will they do? Its only the weaker state which resort to missile program thinking they can destroy the enemy without leaving their living room. But real battle is fought in the war field not in the living room.


Such weapon is not suitable for the civil target for which the unguided rocket is more cost-efficient .


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## TopCat

Stuttgart001 said:


> Such weapon is not suitable for the civil target for which the unguided rocket is more cost-efficient .


Guided or unguided it is very hard to make any real damage to military target with ballistic missile without thermo nuclear warhead or in hypersonic speed as they are pretty much defensively protected. I would rather try with cruise missiles which can fly in very low altitude.

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## Stuttgart001

TopCat said:


> Guided or unguided it is very hard to make any real damage to military target with ballistic missile without thermo nuclear warhead or in hypersonic speed as they are pretty much defensively protected. I would rather try with cruise missiles which can fly in very altitude.


Do you think the cruise missile is more difficult to intercept than the SRBM ?


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## TopCat

Stuttgart001 said:


> Do you think the cruise missile is more difficult to intercept than the SRBM ?



Yes.. Its very hard unless launcher is tracked.


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## Stuttgart001

TopCat said:


> Yes.. Its very hard unless launcher is tracked.


I don't think so.
Cruise missile as kind of a small and low-speed jet guilded by GPS is easy to hard-kill or soft-kill.


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## TopCat

Stuttgart001 said:


> I don't think so.
> Cruise missile as kind of a small and low-speed jet guilded by GPS is easy to hard-kill or soft-kill.



Ya but your radar wont see them over the horizon. The moment you realize it is over your head.


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## Stuttgart001

TopCat said:


> Ya but your radar wont see them over the horizon. The moment you realize it is over your head.


No, the detecting range of radar for a cruise missile is not too short for a SAM to react totally.
If you have muilt-layer SAM system and AWACs, it will not be hard to counter quite a few of cruise missiles.
Even the modern AA gun could shoot down cruise missiles.


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## TopCat

Stuttgart001 said:


> No, the detecting range of radar for a cruise missile is not too short for a SAM to react totally.
> If you have muilt-layer SAM system and AWACs, it will be not hard to counter quite a few of cruise missiles.



Comparatively cruise missile is harder to intercept than ballistic missile. That was the point.
When 100's of missile fired that we seen in Syria it is very hard to intercept majority of them. Pantsir S1  could not intercept a single one of them.

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## Stuttgart001

TopCat said:


> Comparatively cruise missile is harder to intercept than ballistic missile. That was the point.
> When 100's of missile fired that we seen in Syria it is very hard to intercept majority of them. Pantsir S1  could not intercept a single one of them.


We don't know what's behind the closed door in Syria.
But IMO if you could not intercept a cruise missile, there would be less chance to counter a SRBM which is far way faster.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Comparatively cruise missile is harder to intercept than ballistic missile. That was the point.
> When 100's of missile fired that we seen in Syria it is very hard to intercept majority of them. Pantsir S1  could not intercept a single one of them.



There was no AWACS deployed that could detect
them coming in from the sea.


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## masud

wanglaokan said:


> whats the difference between WS2D and SY400?


i don,t know the difference, but BD army is interested in WS series weapons. if we go to countar sy400 then ws-2 series is our core interest, *i think*..............


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## Stuttgart001

masud said:


> i don,t know the difference, but BD army is interested in WS series weapons. if we go to countar sy400 then ws-2 series is our core interest, *i think*..............


To be honest, the two weapons have no substantial differecy and they are made by two different Chinese state-owned corporations .


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## LookSee

TopCat said:


> Comparatively cruise missile is harder to intercept than ballistic missile. That was the point.
> When 100's of missile fired that we seen in Syria it is very hard to intercept majority of them. Pantsir S1 could not intercept a single one of them.


There is a difference between "could" and "need to"


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## 帅的一匹

Stuttgart001 said:


> To be honest, the two weapons have no substantial differecy and they are made by two different Chinese state-owned corporations .


I can't find any source that China sell SY400 to Myanmmar.


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## UKBengali

wanglaokan said:


> To be honest, KJ500 is way powerful than ZDK03.Generation ahead. If I can name a thing compared to it, maybe E2D. The logic of because I have a American engine so it's better, for me, is weird.
> 
> China is a country leading in the development of Radar technology. If we call ourself third, no one can claim itself second.
> 
> The DAR on the KJ500 is the best in Asia, that's it.
> 
> The engine(WJ-6c) of Y9 has 25% increase in power than WJ-6 engine of Y8. It also has 60% increase in range than Y8. It can stay in the air for more than 8 hours, same with KJ2000.
> 
> If BAF want to Induct AWACS, I suggest them to go for the best. Being the best or nothing.
> 
> Three KJ500 will do all the magic for BAF.
> 
> Three KJ500 and 50 J10b will make BAF one of the best in the sub continent.
> 
> The prosperous and robust economy of BD shall financially afford it.
> 
> @asad71 @UKBengali @BDforever
> 
> i want to see a kicking *** strong BAF there, it fits the very interets of China.



Bro, you forgot the 50 J-31s that should also be inducted in 2025-2030 period.

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## asad71

wanglaokan said:


> To be honest, KJ500 is way powerful than ZDK03.Generation ahead. If I can name a thing compared to it, maybe E2D. The logic of because I have a American engine so it's better, for me, is weird.
> 
> China is a country leading in the development of Radar technology. If we call ourself third, no one can claim itself second.
> 
> The DAR on the KJ500 is the best in Asia, that's it.
> 
> The engine(WJ-6c) of Y9 has 25% increase in power than WJ-6 engine of Y8. It also has 60% increase in range than Y8. It can stay in the air for more than 8 hours, same with KJ2000.
> 
> If BAF want to Induct AWACS, I suggest them to go for the best. Being the best or nothing.
> 
> Three KJ500 will do all the magic for BAF.
> 
> Three KJ500 and 50 J10b will make BAF one of the best in the sub continent.
> 
> The prosperous and robust economy of BD shall financially afford it.
> 
> @asad71 @UKBengali @BDforever
> 
> i want to see a kicking *** strong BAF there, it fits the very interets of China.



1.Indo-US mischief in the region make a strategic partnership of BD and PRC essential for peace in SA. China (and Pakistan) need to note fols:

a. Throughout history the Burmese race has been rapacious and blood-thirsty. China herself should know this. 
b. The Burmese race and rules have always been treacherous. The degree of treachery they can sink down to is impossible for others to comprehend.
c. By introducing Suu Kyi into Burmese politics, USA and the West have gained an entry into Burma's corridors of power. This lady is simply a stooge of USA.

2. BD and Chinese mily must jointly work out a strategic thinking to confront either a threat to BD or breakout of a total anti-Indian war in NE. Not only BAF, but BN and BA's requirements must be addressed by China.

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## Michael Corleone

asad71 said:


> 1.Indo-US mischief in the region make a strategic partnership of BD and PRC essential for peace in SA. China (and Pakistan) need to note fols:
> 
> a. Throughout history the Burmese race has been rapacious and blood-thirsty. China herself should know this.
> b. The Burmese race and rules have always been treacherous. The degree of treachery they can sink down to is impossible for others to comprehend.
> c. By introducing Suu Kyi into Burmese politics, USA and the West have gained an entry into Burma's corridors of power. This lady is simply a stooge of USA.
> 
> 2. BD and Chinese mily must jointly work out a strategic thinking to confront either a threat to BD or breakout of a total anti-Indian war in NE. Not only BAF, but BN and BA's requirements must be addressed by China.


just pointing our there is nothing such as burmese race or bengali race.... 
there is mainly four races of people namely.... caucasoids, mongoloid, negroids and australoids..... bengalis are caucasoids with mix of mongoloids on some part.... so are the indians and pakistanis.... but skin tone differs based on the region they live. burmese are mongoloids.

air force thread guys.... stay on topic.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

So Su 30 SME deal is final now J10 B. any update?


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## masud

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> So Su 30 SME deal is final now J10 B. any update?


Soon BAF is going to look like this...............

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## Michael Corleone

masud said:


> Soon BAF is going to look like this...............


But this is the assembly plant bruh.


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## khanasifm

Has janes defence or Defense news or baf /Sukohi announced the Su deal ?? I have not seen anything yet at theses forum or may be I missed the announcement ??


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## Anubis

Mohammed Khaled said:


> But this is the assembly plant bruh.


THe assemble Yaks and Sukhois in the same plant side by side? Thats a bit weird.


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## Flynn Swagmire

Mohammed Khaled said:


> But this is the assembly plant bruh.





Anubis said:


> THe assemble Yaks and Sukhois in the same plant side by side? Thats a bit weird.



It cant be an assembly plant! Its likely a maintenance workshop...


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## Michael Corleone

Anubis said:


> THe assemble Yaks and Sukhois in the same plant side by side? Thats a bit weird.





OrdinaryGenius said:


> It cant be an assembly plant! Its likely a maintenance workshop...


i mean like the russian propaganda videos that i have been seeing.... they used some footage of this building and plane saying it was assembly plant... then other footage showed sukhoi 30/35 production plant and it wasz serial assembly.... but then yeah most likely a maintenance shop.

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## Michael Corleone

Guys, seen a classified drone made by BAC. Rail propelled and parachute assisted landing... its super sleek though! Main purpose is BEV of battlefield/ military compounds etc


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## Michael Corleone

Some source also tells me 1 y-20 is in pipeline for Bangladesh Air Force goals. Apparently running multiple cargo runs at times hikes up cost for planes sized around c-130


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## Banglar Bir

*‎Syed Amar Khan‎ to BDMilitary+*
10 hrs ·
Its official - BAF is purchasing a good number of aircraft, helicopters and radar systems from Italy. This next lot of purchase includes *C-27J TTA, AW139 MSARH, AW109 ULH and RAT-31DL ASR*.

Evan Ahmed Shafi As I heard from an authentic source BAF will buy 3X C-27J, 2X AW-139, UAV system, Another Selex RAT-31DL from Italy.

BAF will buy 1X strategic transport (Y-20), 1X AEW&C (KJ-200), 7X K-8w, 16X J-10B from China.

BAF will buy 2X Training Helicopter from USA or any European County

https://www.bdmilitary.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-buy-ital…/

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## bdslph

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *‎Syed Amar Khan‎ to BDMilitary+*
> 10 hrs ·
> Its official - BAF is purchasing a good number of aircraft, helicopters and radar systems from Italy. This next lot of purchase includes *C-27J TTA, AW139 MSARH, AW109 ULH and RAT-31DL ASR*.
> 
> Evan Ahmed Shafi As I heard from an authentic source BAF will buy 3X C-27J, 2X AW-139, UAV system, Another Selex RAT-31DL from Italy.
> 
> BAF will buy 1X strategic transport (Y-20), 1X AEW&C (KJ-200), 7X K-8w, 16X J-10B from China.
> 
> BAF will buy 2X Training Helicopter from USA or any European County
> 
> https://www.bdmilitary.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-buy-ital…/



we are buying too many different transport helicopter and transport plane it will rise the cost a lot


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## Banglar Bir

Never put your eggs in one basket, diversify, avoid being reliant on a single source.


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## TopCat

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Never put your eggs in one basket, diversify, avoid being reliant on a single source.


What we are doing is like buying basket for every egg.

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## Arthur

bdslph said:


> we are buying too many different transport helicopter and transport plane it will rise the cost a lot


C 27 most probably to replace An 32.
And no, we are buying Bell, AW & Mil. That's three different platform in threw different weight -Role catagory. So no they are not buying too many of too ultimately different eggs. We are buying different eggs of different birds with different purposes.



TopCat said:


> What we are doing is like buying basket for every egg.

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## khanasifm

Not sure who will bu y c27 https://www.stripes.com/news/us-funded-afghan-c-27s-scrapped-for-6-cents-per-pound-1.307578


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## bdslph

khanasifm said:


> Not sure who will bu y c27 https://www.stripes.com/news/us-funded-afghan-c-27s-scrapped-for-6-cents-per-pound-1.307578



something big fishy is there these are resale able planes plus they said hard to find part . most probably Afghanistan could not afford the parts plus C27 is not that old model plane you can buy brand new and used up to you
. parts are able in italy UK or in USA 

i could be wrong some one can say better 

if we have C27 J then we need USA permission


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## Arthur

khanasifm said:


> Not sure who will bu y c27 https://www.stripes.com/news/us-funded-afghan-c-27s-scrapped-for-6-cents-per-pound-1.307578


Afgan Air Force had the old, out of production A variant. The problem they faced was logistical & shortage of spare, which was out of production. Peantagon bought those from Italian air force, and signed a contract with Alenia for spares & training. But as the spares was out of production both alenia & Pentagon was unable to support the fleet & ANAAF fleet were sitting on the ground most of the time. US tried to bypass this logistical problem but due to contractual reason couldn't do so. IMO that deal was a scam to begin with. This problem had nothing to do with the aircraft itself .



bdslph said:


> something big fishy is there these are resale able planes plus they said hard to find part . most probably Afghanistan could not afford the parts plus C27 is not that old model plane you can buy brand new and used up to you
> . parts are able in italy UK or in USA
> 
> i could be wrong some one can say better
> 
> *if we have C27 J then we need USA permission*


We don't unless we buy from USAF's reserve or EDA.

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## BanglarBagh

Hello, everyone. I'm new to this forum. I ask for guidance from all the senior members.

Well, we needed a replacement for our old an-32s. c-27j would prove to be a worthy replacement. moreover in future we can get mc-27j istar and ec-27 jedi development of the same platform which will be a huge boost to baf arsenal. well this is just my personal opinion. baf planners would know better.

i like the idea of a y-20. but for kj-200 i'm not so sure. why don't they go for kj-500?

finally, i'm really looking forward to the j-10b!!!

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## Arthur

BanglarBagh said:


> Hello, everyone. I'm new to this forum. I ask for guidance from all the senior members.
> 
> Well, we needed a replacement for our old an-32s. c-27j would prove to be a worthy replacement. moreover in future we can get mc-27j istar and ec-27 jedi development of the same platform which will be a huge boost to baf arsenal. well this is just my personal opinion. baf planners would know better.
> 
> i like the idea of a y-20. but for kj-200 i'm not so sure. why don't they go for kj-500?
> 
> finally, i'm really looking forward to the j-10b!!!


Welcome to the forum. You can visit
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chill-bangladesh-thread.362263/page-26#post-9485441
& introduce with other BD members.

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## bdslph

Y-20 we should go for at least 3 planes will be perfect for all mission for BD armed Forces
KJ-200 is not that based on Y8 and it is the older model why are we going for this
(may be it will be off the self and will be a lot cheaper )
why not the KJ 2000 which is newer model and better


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## 帅的一匹

bdslph said:


> Y-20 we should go for at least 3 planes will be perfect for all mission for BD armed Forces
> KJ-200 is not that based on Y8 and it is the older model why are we going for this
> (may be it will be off the self and will be a lot cheaper )
> why not the KJ 2000 which is newer model and better


KJ500 is carrying DAR, and it's very cost saving!

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## Deino

bdslph said:


> Y-20 we should go for at least 3 planes will be perfect for all mission for BD armed Forces
> KJ-200 is not that based on Y8 and it is the older model why are we going for this
> (may be it will be off the self and will be a lot cheaper )
> why not the KJ 2000 which is newer model and better




IMO at least unrealistic for the next years to come since the PLAAf will need all aircraft rolling-off the line.

Concerning the KJ-2000, simply since it is not newer and the PLAAF only has 4 operational; I can't think that they would sell any of them.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> IMO at least unrealistic for the next years to come since the PLAAf will need all aircraft rolling-off the line.
> 
> Concerning the KJ-2000, simply since it is not newer and the PLAAF only has 4 operational; I can't think that they would sell any of them.


KJ500 is more pragmatic.

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## Stuttgart001

The reason why China does not induct large AWACs like KJ-2000 is to wait for the Y-20 which is used as the platform of China's latest large AWACs KJ-3000.

In the coming years, KJ-3000 will enter sevice in PLAAF.



Deino said:


> IMO at least unrealistic for the next years to come since the PLAAf will need all aircraft rolling-off the line.
> 
> Concerning the KJ-2000, simply since it is not newer and the PLAAF only has 4 operational; I can't think that they would sell any of them.


Since Y-20 is in the making at full speed, the large AWACS will be on the table on the condition that the need of PLAAF would have been met.


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## BanglarBagh

The aircrafts I wish to see in BAF by 2030

FA
1. 48* J-31 3 squadrons
2. 48* J-10B 3 squadrons
3. 64* Su-30SME 4 squadrons

TA
1. 2* Y-20 STA
2. 4* Y-9 TTA
3. 4* C-27J TTA

SMA
1. 2* KJ-500 AWACS
2. 2* ART (Based on Y-9)
3. 3* EC-27 Jedi
4. 3* MC-27J ISTAR

GAA (primary role as trainers)
1. 16* Yak-130
2. 16* K-8W

RWA
1. 20* Mi-171SH
2. 20* Mi-171
3. 10* AW-139
4. 16* Kazan Ansat
5. 4* Training Helicopters

And finally, I would love to see EMB-314 Super Tucanos replacing the CJ-6s as the basic trainers. (can also be used as GAA in limited conditions)

Everyone, what do you think about this list. Give me your opinions!!!

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## Bengal Tiger 71

BanglarBagh said:


> The aircrafts I wish to see in BAF by 2030
> 
> FA
> 1. 48* J-31 3 squadrons
> 2. 48* J-10B 3 squadrons
> 3. 64* Su-30SME 4 squadrons
> 
> TA
> 1. 2* Y-20 STA
> 2. 4* Y-9 TTA
> 3. 4* C-27J TTA
> 
> SMA
> 1. 2* KJ-500 AWACS
> 2. 2* ART (Based on Y-9)
> 3. 3* EC-27 Jedi
> 4. 3* MC-27J ISTAR
> 
> GAA (primary role as trainers)
> 1. 16* Yak-130
> 2. 16* K-8W
> 
> RWA
> 1. 20* Mi-171SH
> 2. 20* Mi-171
> 3. 10* AW-139
> 4. 16* Kazan Ansat
> 5. 4* Training Helicopters
> 
> And finally, I would love to see EMB-314 Super Tucanos replacing the CJ-6s as the basic trainers. (can also be used as GAA in limited conditions)
> 
> Everyone, what do you think about this list. Give me your opinions!!!


*2018 - 2025 fy*
1. 64* Su-30SME 4 squadrons
2. 48* J-10B 3 squadrons

*2025 - 2030 fy*
3. 48* J-31 3 squadrons

also i would like to see in forces goal 2030-
1. 400 new tanks
2. Long range air defense system
3. long range cruise missiles
4. 2 Destroyer, above 6000 ton
5. 4 Submarine kilo/ Song class
6. buildup special forces at least brigade level in more no. (para commando, SWADS) 
7. buildup missile system for anti ship & anti aircraft in locally.


it's all are dream but could be true.

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## masud



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## Avicenna

BanglarBagh said:


> The aircrafts I wish to see in BAF by 2030
> 
> FA
> 1. 48* J-31 3 squadrons
> 2. 48* J-10B 3 squadrons
> 3. 64* Su-30SME 4 squadrons
> 
> TA
> 1. 2* Y-20 STA
> 2. 4* Y-9 TTA
> 3. 4* C-27J TTA
> 
> SMA
> 1. 2* KJ-500 AWACS
> 2. 2* ART (Based on Y-9)
> 3. 3* EC-27 Jedi
> 4. 3* MC-27J ISTAR
> 
> GAA (primary role as trainers)
> 1. 16* Yak-130
> 2. 16* K-8W
> 
> RWA
> 1. 20* Mi-171SH
> 2. 20* Mi-171
> 3. 10* AW-139
> 4. 16* Kazan Ansat
> 5. 4* Training Helicopters
> 
> And finally, I would love to see EMB-314 Super Tucanos replacing the CJ-6s as the basic trainers. (can also be used as GAA in limited conditions)
> 
> Everyone, what do you think about this list. Give me your opinions!!!



This list has no basis in reality.

Instead of buying weapons like some women buy shoes, use that money to improve the economy, infrastructure, healthcare and education first.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> This list has no basis in reality.
> 
> Instead of buying weapons like some women buy shoes, use that money to improve the economy, infrastructure, healthcare and education first.



Please think before you speak.

That list has a basis in reality as BD "Forces Goal 2030" specifically mentions 10 squadrons of modern fighter aircraft by 2030.

BD can well afford this as it's economy is set to grow around 8-9% a year average between now and 2030. There is no need to increase defence spending as a percentage of GDP even as a lot of these weapons will come from China at steep discounts and favourable repayment terms.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Please think before you speak.
> 
> That list has a basis in reality as BD "Forces Goal 2030" specifically mentions 10 squadrons of modern fighter aircraft by 2030.
> 
> BD can well afford this as it's economy is set to grow around 8-9% a year average between now and 2030. There is no need to increase defence spending as a percentage of GDP even as a lot of these weapons will come from China at steep discounts and favourable repayment terms.



So 10 squadrons of modern multi-role aircraft. how much do you think the aircraft itself and its related weapons, training and other infrastructure needed to maintain that number will cost? 

Beyond the cost. What is the purpose? People spouting lists with no basis in reality piss me off. Forces goal 2030
or whatever is fine. But having a mix of nearly 100 Flankers, J-10B, and FC-31 is incredulous to me, and for that matter by 13 yrs. 

Ridiculous!


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## LookSee

BanglarBagh said:


> The aircrafts I wish to see in BAF by 2030
> 
> FA
> 1. 48* J-31 3 squadrons
> 2. 48* J-10B 3 squadrons
> 3. 64* Su-30SME 4 squadrons
> 
> TA
> 1. 2* Y-20 STA
> 2. 4* Y-9 TTA
> 3. 4* C-27J TTA
> 
> SMA
> 1. 2* KJ-500 AWACS
> 2. 2* ART (Based on Y-9)
> 3. 3* EC-27 Jedi
> 4. 3* MC-27J ISTAR
> 
> GAA (primary role as trainers)
> 1. 16* Yak-130
> 2. 16* K-8W
> 
> RWA
> 1. 20* Mi-171SH
> 2. 20* Mi-171
> 3. 10* AW-139
> 4. 16* Kazan Ansat
> 5. 4* Training Helicopters
> 
> And finally, I would love to see EMB-314 Super Tucanos replacing the CJ-6s as the basic trainers. (can also be used as GAA in limited conditions)
> 
> Everyone, what do you think about this list. Give me your opinions!!!


I doubt Bangladesh can afford this, I mean you can probably can *buy* them but to keep them running and not be parked in hangers? I really doubt this.

Also three different types of fighters? That will be a nightmare.


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## Flynn Swagmire

BanglarBagh said:


> The aircrafts I wish to see in BAF by 2030
> 
> FA
> 1. 48* J-31 3 squadrons
> 2. 48* J-10B 3 squadrons
> 3. 64* Su-30SME 4 squadrons
> 
> TA
> 1. 2* Y-20 STA
> 2. 4* Y-9 TTA
> 3. 4* C-27J TTA
> 
> SMA
> 1. 2* KJ-500 AWACS
> 2. 2* ART (Based on Y-9)
> 3. 3* EC-27 Jedi
> 4. 3* MC-27J ISTAR
> 
> GAA (primary role as trainers)
> 1. 16* Yak-130
> 2. 16* K-8W
> 
> RWA
> 1. 20* Mi-171SH
> 2. 20* Mi-171
> 3. 10* AW-139
> 4. 16* Kazan Ansat
> 5. 4* Training Helicopters
> 
> And finally, I would love to see EMB-314 Super Tucanos replacing the CJ-6s as the basic trainers. (can also be used as GAA in limited conditions)
> 
> Everyone, what do you think about this list. Give me your opinions!!!





Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> *2018 - 2025 fy*
> 1. 64* Su-30SME 4 squadrons
> 2. 48* J-10B 3 squadrons
> 
> *2025 - 2030 fy*
> 3. 48* J-31 3 squadrons
> 
> also i would like to see in forces goal 2030-
> 1. 400 new tanks
> 2. Long range air defense system
> 3. long range cruise missiles
> 4. 2 Destroyer, above 6000 ton
> 5. 4 Submarine kilo/ Song class
> 6. buildup special forces at least brigade level in more no. (para commando, SWADS)
> 7. buildup missile system for anti ship & anti aircraft in locally.
> 
> 
> it's all are dream but could be true.


Bhais, we dont pump OIL from our soil... 

Think with logic not with emotion...

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## TopCat

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Bhais, we dont pump OIL from our soil...
> 
> Think with logic not with emotion...


By 2030 our defence budget will be 8-10 billion dollar. You have to spend those to something.

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## Flynn Swagmire

TopCat said:


> By 2030 our defence budget will be 8-10 billion dollar. You have to spend those to something.


Yes we will. And 8-10 billions wont be much at 2030 exchange rate.


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## TopCat

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Yes we will. And 8-10 billions wont be much at 2030 exchange rate.


I dont think dollar will massively loose its value as you anticipate.

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## Flynn Swagmire

TopCat said:


> I dont think dollar will massively loose its value as you anticipate.


Even if it doesn't somehow, cost to procure and maintain military gears will rise as always. We have to increase military welfare too.


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## TopCat

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Even if it doesn't somehow, cost to procure and maintain military gears will rise as always. We have to increase military welfare too.



Still it is enough to maintain a small airforce like 160 aircraft. Besides armed forces has to defend a massive economy by then.

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## Michael Corleone

Bd won't do the stupid mistake of Pakistan of try and build Air Force with fighters of various kinds... it's suicide.
J-10 and su30 makes sense with engine commonality...
J31 and j10 with su 30 in a time frame of 2030 is ridiculous. J31 more probably after 2030... not before that.

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## Flynn Swagmire

TopCat said:


> Still it is enough to maintain a small airforce like 160 aircraft. Besides armed forces has to defend a massive economy by then.


Well you are being too much optimistic. Im more conservative.


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## LookSee

TopCat said:


> Still it is enough to maintain a small airforce like 160 aircraft. Besides armed forces has to defend a massive economy by then.


160 is a small airforce? I'd hate to see a medium sized one then..


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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Bd won't do the stupid mistake of Pakistan of try and build Air Force with fighters of various kinds... it's suicide.
> J-10 and su30 makes sense with engine commonality...
> J31 and j10 with su 30 in a time frame of 2030 is ridiculous. J31 more probably after 2030... not before that.


I agree with you regarding j-31. Yet it will also depend on Indian induction of PAK FA.
To be a practical war planner i will certainly keep at least 1/2 a squadron of stealth fighter to train our no stealth fighter.



LookSee said:


> 160 is a small airforce? I'd hate to see a medium sized one then..



When you have massive armies all around 160 looks tiny


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> So 10 squadrons of modern multi-role aircraft. how much do you think the aircraft itself and its related weapons, training and other infrastructure needed to maintain that number will cost?
> 
> Beyond the cost. What is the purpose? People spouting lists with no basis in reality piss me off. Forces goal 2030
> or whatever is fine. But having a mix of nearly 100 Flankers, J-10B, and FC-31 is incredulous to me, and for that matter by 13 yrs.
> 
> Ridiculous!



The mix is actually 160 SU-30SMEs, J-10B and FC-31 by 2030 and that is realistic.

How good are you at mathematics? If you are poor at this then no need to discuss further.

BD GDP spending on defence is at around 1.5-1.6% when arms purchases are take into account, and so it is now at around 3.2 billion US dollars with a GDP of 250 billion dollars.
BD economy is set to hit 1 trillion US dollars by 2030. Let us reduce this figure by 30% to take into account inflation and so we have an economy of 700 billion dollars in today's money. That would make the defence budget 10 billion US dollars today.

10 billion US dollars is ample money to support an air-force that will be compact at around 250 aircraft of all types.

Only an ability to run mathematics in your head like a calculator will allow anyone to understand why BD's planners are spot on with this "Force Goal 2030" plan.



TopCat said:


> I agree with you regarding j-31. Yet it will also depend on Indian induction of PAK FA.
> To be a practical war planner i will certainly keep at least 1/2 a squadron of stealth fighter to train our no stealth fighter.
> 
> 
> 
> When you have massive armies all around 160 looks tiny




J-31 will start arriving in BD airfoce by 2025. 2030 is too far as BD has a stated goal to deter India by 2030 and not after


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## bd_4_ever

People jumping into 160 figure - how about reaching 60 first and then we can target +100 more?

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> The mix is actually 160 SU-30SMEs, J-10B and FC-31 by 2030 and that is realistic.
> 
> How good are you at mathematics? If you are poor at this then no need to discuss further.
> 
> BD GDP spending on defence is at around 1.5-1.6% when arms purchases are take into account, and so it is now at around 3.2 billion US dollars with a GDP of 250 billion dollars.
> BD economy is set to hit 1 trillion US dollars by 2030. Let us reduce this figure by 30% to take into account inflation and so we have an economy of 700 billion dollars in today's money. That would make the defence budget 10 billion US dollars today.
> 
> 10 billion US dollars is ample money to support an air-force that will be compact at around 250 aircraft of all types.
> 
> Only an ability to run mathematics in your head like a calculator will allow anyone to understand why BD's planners are spot on with this "Force Goal 2030" plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-31 will start arriving in BD airfoce by 2025. 2030 is too far as BD has a stated goal to deter India by 2030 and not after



How old are you man like 12? Typical fan boi statements. 

Bangladesh with 160 4+ gen fighters. Lol. what are you smoking? 

And furthermore, who would all those planes be for? Please dont say India....

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## LookSee

UKBengali said:


> J-31 will start arriving in BD airfoce by 2025. 2030 is too far as BD has a stated goal to deter India by 2030 and not after


I don't see how you guys can get it at 2025, way too early considering we're in 2017, it will need to finish its various testing and since its not a priority jet of the Chinese it won't go as fast as the J20.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> How old are you man like 12? Typical fan boi statements.
> 
> Bangladesh with 160 4+ gen fighters. Lol. what are you smoking?
> 
> And furthermore, who would all those planes be for? Please dont say India....



So you are poor at mathematics then?
No need to bother trying to discuss mathematical
topics with the likes of you then.


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## bd_4_ever

UKBengali said:


> So you are poor at mathematics then?
> No need to bother trying to discuss mathematical
> topics with the likes of you then.



Taking your calculation into account, a 10 billion dollar defence budget will not only be for maintaining a fleet of 250 aircrafts, but the remainder of the 2 sections as well. Our navy is big and it will only get bigger by years, with more subs, helicopters and fleet vessels to come. Not to forget Army, which stands at 400k (correct me if I am wrong) and should touch around 550k-600k by that time. That is a formidable force along with newer equipments that will come. You need money to maintain that as well.

250 modern aircrafts are a big number you are talking about.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> I agree with you regarding j-31. Yet it will also depend on Indian induction of PAK FA.
> To be a practical war planner i will certainly keep at least 1/2 a squadron of stealth fighter to train our no stealth fighter.
> 
> 
> 
> When you have massive armies all around 160 looks tiny


I think when stealth will become an absolute requirement considering the economy will be steonGwr... I would like to think PAK FA and j31 bought will be bought...


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## BanglarBagh

Well I think BAF can cut down the FA numbers from 160 to 120 with each squadron consisting of 12 fighters. Although, traditional BAF FA squadrons are 16 units; a 12 units squadron is not a bad number. This initiative might just work out the problems regarding budgetary limitations.

Well, I'm no expert but a simple idea!!!


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Avicenna said:


> This list has no basis in reality.
> 
> Instead of buying weapons like some women buy shoes, use that money to improve the economy, infrastructure, healthcare and education first.


this logic also applicable for u.


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## Avicenna

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> this logic also applicable for u.



Care to expand on that statement?


----------



## UKBengali

LookSee said:


> I don't see how you guys can get it at 2025, way too early considering we're in 2017, it will need to finish its various testing and since its not a priority jet of the Chinese it won't go as fast as the J20.



Second prototype came out


bd_4_ever said:


> Taking your calculation into account, a 10 billion dollar defence budget will not only be for maintaining a fleet of 250 aircrafts, but the remainder of the 2 sections as well. Our navy is big and it will only get bigger by years, with more subs, helicopters and fleet vessels to come. Not to forget Army, which stands at 400k (correct me if I am wrong) and should touch around 550k-600k by that time. That is a formidable force along with newer equipments that will come. You need money to maintain that as well.
> 
> 250 modern aircrafts are a big number you are talking about.



Sure and most will come from China
at good prices and easy payment terms.

If the defence budget needs to be raised by
0.1-0.2% points then so be it.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> The mix is actually 160 SU-30SMEs, J-10B and FC-31 by 2030 and that is realistic.
> 
> How good are you at mathematics? If you are poor at this then no need to discuss further.
> 
> BD GDP spending on defence is at around 1.5-1.6% when arms purchases are take into account, and so it is now at around 3.2 billion US dollars with a GDP of 250 billion dollars.
> BD economy is set to hit 1 trillion US dollars by 2030. Let us reduce this figure by 30% to take into account inflation and so we have an economy of 700 billion dollars in today's money. That would make the defence budget 10 billion US dollars today.
> 
> 10 billion US dollars is ample money to support an air-force that will be compact at around 250 aircraft of all types.
> 
> Only an ability to run mathematics in your head like a calculator will allow anyone to understand why BD's planners are spot on with this "Force Goal 2030" plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-31 will start arriving in BD airfoce by 2025. 2030 is too far as BD has a stated goal to deter India by 2030 and not after



LOL where did you get the goal to deter India by 2030? Please share with us your source for that statement.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Avicenna said:


> Care to expand on that statement?


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## LookSee

UKBengali said:


> Second prototype came out


Still a long long way to go, due to the many changes between the first and second, they will need to build more prototypes to confirm the changes made is 1) correct or 2) not correct which would make development even longer. You have to remember this is a 5th gen so they can't go all slap dash with it.

At best I see it at 2030-2035 at best or 2040 or later at worse due to infrastructure that needs to be laid and a training regimen that needs to be developed.

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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> Well I think BAF can cut down the FA numbers from 160 to 120 with each squadron consisting of 12 fighters. Although, traditional BAF FA squadrons are 16 units; a 12 units squadron is not a bad number. This initiative might just work out the problems regarding budgetary limitations.
> 
> Well, I'm no expert but a simple idea!!!


A regular sqd consist of 18-24 planes... 16 is a hardline limit, making it 12? Bruh you want to expand your divisions like Hitler's tank brigade without equipping them amply? Bruh. BRUH!

Don't dream of a 160 strong fighter sqd with only 32 planes to train pilots (jet conversion)


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## BanglarBagh

I o


Mohammed Khaled said:


> A regular sqd consist of 18-24 planes... 16 is a hardline limit, making it 12? Bruh you want to expand your divisions like Hitler's tank brigade without equipping them amply? Bruh. BRUH!
> 
> Don't dream of a 160 strong fighter sqd with only 32 planes to train pilots (jet conversion)



I only thought about it since our air space is not that large to begin with and we also have budgetary limitations! There may be far better solutions as I said already I'm no expert. Anyway, it was just wishful thinking!

BTW, what would your suggestion be for BAF procurement plans for 2030 time limit?


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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> I o
> 
> 
> I only thought about it since our air space is not that large to begin with and we also have budgetary limitations! There may be far better solutions as I said already I'm no expert. Anyway, it was just wishful thinking!
> 
> BTW, what would your suggestion be for BAF procurement plans for 2030 time limit?


For now I would say to quickly complete the su30 sqd to 16 and not stall out like the mig 29 sqd... and get more of j10b or c if possible... and then add a sukhoi sqd each two to three years...


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## UKBengali

LookSee said:


> Still a long long way to go, due to the many changes between the first and second, they will need to build more prototypes to confirm the changes made is 1) correct or 2) not correct which would make development even longer. You have to remember this is a 5th gen so they can't go all slap dash with it.
> 
> At best I see it at 2030-2035 at best or 2040 or later at worse due to infrastructure that needs to be laid and a training regimen that needs to be developed.



OK. BD will get J-31s by 2050 if that makes you happy in that case.

Dude this thread is full of kids that are talking when they simply do not have the aptitude
in either geopolitics or mathematics to be able to make informed views and so i am out of here now.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> OK. BD will get J-31s by 2050 if that makes you happy in that case.
> 
> Dude this thread is full of kids that are talking when they simply do not have the amplitude
> in either geopolitics are mathematics to be able to make informed views and so i am out of here now.



The pot is calling the kettle black...

In what world does Bangladesh need 150+ 4th and 5th gen aircraft? Especially in a time frame peri-2030, this is simply not possible for a variety of reasons nor is warranted. Just one specific example. How do you expect to train the number of pilots needed to support such a fleet? 16 Yaks? 9 K-8? 7 or so L-39? Come on man....

While I agree that Bangladesh needs self defensive capability obviously, there simply does not exist a threat to justify such an allocation of funds to support the above. Then again, I'm not in government or the military or even in the country for that matter, but I am speaking as a layman with interest and some knowledge on both military aviation and geopolitics. 

What I would propose would be BAF to aspire to be a small but modern force that has adopted western philosophies in its tactics in addition to utilizing modern technologies. 

I would cite the example of Singapore, Israel, Finland, Sweden and even Finland as an example. 

If your worried about India, fine. Study the model of smaller nations neighboring larger ones that it is threatened by and maybe emulate their approach. 

Specifically, a robust radar network and communications. Excellent pilot training. Modern philosophies and approach to the role of air power in the early 21st century. Mastery of BVR tactics and acquiring the associated hardware. AEW/AWACS. SAM capability from short to long range. AESA. IRST. PGM and stand off munitions. Stealth. This must all be done however in the context of the greater picture. Bangladesh has other problems that the money needs to be spent on. 

So what I would suggest is perhaps buying smaller quantities of high caliber kit like what they are doing already apparently. I was very encouraged with the Yak 130 purchase. And the content for the tender for the 8 MRCA is also very encouraging. I hope AEW/AWACS is on the cards as well soon. I hope for a full squadron the Flankers. And 2 or 3 of the J-10B/C. I would see that as realistic and wise given the above. 

The point I'm trying to make is ESTABLISH THE INFRASTRUCTURE and MASTER the TECHNOLOGIES.

You can always scale up if needed by changing geopolitics.

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## LookSee

UKBengali said:


> OK. BD will get J-31s by 2050 if that makes you happy in that case.
> 
> Dude this thread is full of kids that are talking when they simply do not have the aptitude
> in either geopolitics or mathematics to be able to make informed views and so i am out of here now.


So we happen to disagree on something and this is the way you decide to react? disappointed.

Thought this was a "forum"

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*



শুভ সকাল....

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ভবিষ্যত













Future of Bangladesh Airforce

এখানের অনেকগুলোই কেনা হয়েছে, কিছু প্রকৃয়াধীন আছে আর কিছু procurement list এ আছে।

ইনশাআল্লাহ্‌ আপনাদের নিশ্চিত করে বলতে পারি...এ সবগুলোই বিমানবাহিনীর বহরে ২০২৫ (2025) এর মধ্যেই দেখতে পাবেন।





TAI Anka UAV, K-8,LY-80E,C-27J Spartan, AEW&C, KJ-200, GDF-Type-90,J-10B.SU 30 SME,Mig 35.

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## fatman17

What is the Doctrine of BAF. seems to be a professional organisation.

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## Nabil365

Most of you guys are jumping around on how su-30s will be a game changer.
The real game changer here is that RAT radar.

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## Michael Corleone

True... without radar... Air Force is a sitting duck, their importance proven in Britain during ww2 Battle of Britain...

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## monitor

One unit of EADS C-295 under construction in Spain will join our fleet in September.

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## Banglar Bir

Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB






Best news of the day.
আজকের দিনের সবচেয়ে ভালো খবর.....
4x C-130B Hercules of BAF have been made operational once again.
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B Hercules এখন সচল এবং উড্ডয়নকক্ষম।বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B থাকলেও ১৯৯৯ সাল থেকে একটি বিমান ইঞ্জিনের সমস্যার জন্য গ্রাউন্ডেড ছিল।বর্তমানে তা রিপেয়ার এবং মেইনটেইনেন্স এর মাধ্যমে আবার চালু করা হলো।

আজ সেই বিমানটি (সিরিয়াল-৯৬২,৩নং ছবি) মালয়েশিয়া(Malaysia) থেকে সম্পুর্ন চালু অবস্থায় ফ্লাই করেছে।
Very soon 3x brand new,state of the art C-27J Spartan will be added to the fleet.
খুব শীঘ্রই বিমানবাহিনীতে ৩ টি সম্পুর্ন নতুন এবং অত্যাধুনিক C-27J Spartan যুক্ত হবে।ফলে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনী আরো সহজে,কম সময়ে যেকোন সামগ্রী যথাস্থানে যথাসময় পৌছে দিতে সক্ষম হবে।

ছবিতে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B Hercules এক ফ্রেমে আবদ্ধ করা হলো।





BAF AW-139 SAR helicopter.

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## Banglar Bir

fatman17 said:


> What is the Doctrine of BAF. seems to be a professional organisation.



*Forces Goal 2030*
The Bangladesh Air Force has an ambitious modernisation plan to be implemented in upcoming years under Force's Goal 2030. As per the goal, air force is to be a strong deterrent force to well protect the sky of Bangladesh. Plans are made to strengthen both air power and land based air defence capabilities. BAF has taken the delivery of sixteen Chengdu F-7BGI fighter aircraft, nine K-8W basic trainer aircraft, eleven Mil Mi-171Sh combat transport helicopters three Let L-410 Turbolet transport trainer aircraft, sixteen Yakovlev Yak-130 advanced jet trainers and two AgustaWestland AW139 maritime SAR helicopters from 2010 to 2015.BAF is now awaiting to take delivery of 11 PT-6 basic trainers and two training helicopters.

BAF earned the Surface to Air Missile capability by introducing FM-90 short range air defence missile in 2011. Bangladesh air force will receive Italian origin long range Selex RAT-31DL air defence radar and a short range air defence radar soon.

Plans are there to procure eight multirole combat aircraft, six Mi-171Sh helicopters, two maritime search and rescue helicopters, one medium range surface-to-air missile system and one unmanned aerial vehicle system soon.

"Banglar Akash Rakhibo Mukto" is their motto. The rest are classified, I presume.

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## Michael Corleone

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best news of the day.
> আজকের দিনের সবচেয়ে ভালো খবর.....
> 4x C-130B Hercules of BAF have been made operational once again.
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B Hercules এখন সচল এবং উড্ডয়নকক্ষম।বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B থাকলেও ১৯৯৯ সাল থেকে একটি বিমান ইঞ্জিনের সমস্যার জন্য গ্রাউন্ডেড ছিল।বর্তমানে তা রিপেয়ার এবং মেইনটেইনেন্স এর মাধ্যমে আবার চালু করা হলো।
> 
> আজ সেই বিমানটি (সিরিয়াল-৯৬২,৩নং ছবি) মালয়েশিয়া(Malaysia) থেকে সম্পুর্ন চালু অবস্থায় ফ্লাই করেছে।
> Very soon 3x brand new,state of the art C-27J Spartan will be added to the fleet.
> খুব শীঘ্রই বিমানবাহিনীতে ৩ টি সম্পুর্ন নতুন এবং অত্যাধুনিক C-27J Spartan যুক্ত হবে।ফলে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনী আরো সহজে,কম সময়ে যেকোন সামগ্রী যথাস্থানে যথাসময় পৌছে দিতে সক্ষম হবে।
> 
> ছবিতে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B Hercules এক ফ্রেমে আবদ্ধ করা হলো।
> View attachment 398194
> 
> 
> BAF AW-139 SAR helicopter.
> View attachment 398195


All the three wasn't grounded.. 3 were working two were in bd and one in UN and one grounded.


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## Banglar Bir

Mohammed Khaled said:


> All the three wasn't grounded.. 3 were working two were in bd and one in UN and one grounded.



বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B Hercules এখন সচল এবং উড্ডয়নকক্ষম।বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B থাকলেও *১৯৯৯ সাল থেকে একটি বিমান ইঞ্জিনের সমস্যার জন্য গ্রাউন্ডেড ছিল।বর্তমানে তা রিপেয়ার এবং মেইনটেইনেন্স এর মাধ্যমে আবার চালু করা হলো।*

আজ সেই বিমানটি (সিরিয়াল-৯৬২,৩নং ছবি) মালয়েশিয়া(Malaysia) থেকে সম্পুর্ন চালু অবস্থায় ফ্লাই করেছে।

@Mohammed Khaled. Any further developments regarding upgrading the existing Mig-29 to SMT standard?


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## Flynn Swagmire

মালয়েশিয়া থেকে ফ্লাই করেছে মানে? কোথায় গ্রাউন্ডেড ছিল ১৮ বছর?


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## Michael Corleone

BANGLAR BIR said:


> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B Hercules এখন সচল এবং উড্ডয়নকক্ষম।বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ৪ টি C-130B থাকলেও *১৯৯৯ সাল থেকে একটি বিমান ইঞ্জিনের সমস্যার জন্য গ্রাউন্ডেড ছিল।বর্তমানে তা রিপেয়ার এবং মেইনটেইনেন্স এর মাধ্যমে আবার চালু করা হলো।*
> 
> আজ সেই বিমানটি (সিরিয়াল-৯৬২,৩নং ছবি) মালয়েশিয়া(Malaysia) থেকে সম্পুর্ন চালু অবস্থায় ফ্লাই করেছে।
> 
> @Mohammed Khaled. Any further developments regarding upgrading the existing Mig-29 to SMT standard?


I don't think we'll upgrade them to SMT variant... for the age of the fleet... the upgrade is not worthwhile considering it does lower some performance figure which is mandatory by BAF

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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I don't think we'll upgrade them to SMT variant... for the age of the fleet... the upgrade is not worthwhile considering it does lower some performance figure which is mandatory by BAF



Thought that was a done deal?

The Migs are to get new avionics and radars.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Thought that was a done deal?
> 
> The Migs are to get new avionics and radars.


Yes but SMT upgrades get... fuselage expansion, strengthening, fuel capacity increase, 3D thrust vectoring on latest offerings...


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Yes but SMT upgrades get... fuselage expansion, strengthening, fuel capacity increase, 3D thrust vectoring on latest offerings...



Don't think BD is interested in all that.

Think all we will see is new radar and avionics. This will not affect the performance 
of the aircraft one bit.

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## zain41

just out of curiosity as i think all of us can see bangladesh has been making alot of purchases and progress in the military department why are these purchases being made in regards to who is bangladeshs main threat who are they trying to counter


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## UKBengali

zain41 said:


> just out of curiosity as i think all of us can see bangladesh has been making alot of purchases and progress in the military department why are these purchases being made in regards to who is bangladeshs main threat who are they trying to counter



BD cannot say it openly but it is India.
Myanmar is insignificant.

What you have and are seeing is the building blocks with the 16 Yak-130
and 8 K-8 trainers brought from Russia and China.
Now 12 SU-30SME will come by 2019 and we will almost certainly see
a contract soon for J-10bs

BD will finish it's military modernisation by 2030 and will then be able
to deter ANY ONE of it's neighbours.

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## zain41

UKBengali said:


> BD cannot say it openly but it is India.
> Myanmar is insignificant.
> 
> What you have and are seeing is the building blocks with the 16 Yak-130
> and 8 K-8 trainers brought from Russia and China.
> Now 12 SU-30SME will come by 2019 and we will almost certainly see
> a contract soon for J-10bs
> 
> BD will finish it's military modernisation by 2030 and will then be able
> to deter ANYONE of it's neighbours.



bangladesh will need to expand sooner or later. due to growing population.is an invasion of myanmar being planned

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Don't think BD is interested in all that.
> 
> Think all we will see is new radar and avionics. This will not affect the performance
> of the aircraft one bit.


True... the turn rate doesn't drop at all except when the external fuel pod is being carried... which is normal... other than that it's still good enough to go...



zain41 said:


> bangladesh will need to expand sooner or later. due to growing population.is an invasion of myanmar being planned


You know we won't do that no matter how nuts our military leaders might be... it goes against the constitution and the basic principles the armed forces was founded... we don't want to be the aggressors.


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> You know we won't do that no matter how nuts our military leaders might be... it goes against the constitution and the basic principles the armed forces was founded... we don't want to be the aggressors.



Are you a still a student? Then you will become wiser as you grow into a mature adult.

F*ck constitution etc. These things are written for a certain time and place. Everything is transient in life.

BD MUST expand in the future in order to become a prosperous and powerful country. The Indian NE will be split 
between China and BD by 2050 - note this need not come via war as multi-ethnic India will naturally disintegrate.

As regards Myanmar, Arakan will become part of BD as this is natural due to population demographics and geography. This will I think require military action but no big deal to beat the crap out of Myanmar with little cost
in life and treasure to BD.

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## Aung Zaya

UKBengali said:


> As regards Myanmar, Arakan will become part of BD as this is natural due to population demographics and geography. This will I think require military action but no big deal to beat the crap out of Myanmar with little cost
> in life and treasure to BD


lol wet dream.!!


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Are you a still a student? Then you will become wiser as you grow into a mature adult.
> 
> F*ck constitution etc. These things are written for a certain time and place. Everything is transient in life.
> 
> BD MUST expand in the future in order to become a prosperous and powerful country. The Indian NE will be split
> between China and BD by 2050 - note this need not come via war as multi-ethnic India will naturally disintegrate.
> 
> As regards Myanmar, Arakan will become part of BD as this is natural due to population demographics and geography. This will I think require military action but no big deal to beat the crap out of Myanmar with little cost
> in life and treasure to BD.


The level of profanity directed at rule of law shows your maturity well enough....
Maturity doesn't come with age or a persons current profession... it's experience...

BD will expand and become powerful militarily and economically no one doubts that
Keep dreaming... the current geography of bd won't expand I bet you 100$ to 2050 if you wanna place wager... (will be given in inflated price)

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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Yes but SMT upgrades get... fuselage expansion, strengthening, fuel capacity increase, 3D thrust vectoring on latest offerings...



Yep fuselage expansion is most visible - the SMT versions get a camel-hump in the rear of the pits for electronics.







Compare this to our version.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Yep fuselage expansion is most visible - the SMT versions get a camel-hump in the rear of the pits for electronics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare this to our version.


That's for internal fuel capacity...


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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> That's for internal fuel capacity...



Oh sorry my bad.

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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> The level of profanity directed at rule of law shows your maturity well enough....
> Maturity doesn't come with age or a persons current profession... it's experience...
> 
> BD will expand and become powerful militarily and economically no one doubts that
> Keep dreaming... the current geography of bd won't expand I bet you 100$ to 2050 if you wanna place wager... (will be given in inflated price)



You are a little kid who has little life experience.

Read a history book and see how borders change
all the time.

PS - Lol BD will become powerful in it's current borders. Shows how
little you have learnt in life so far.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Oh sorry my bad.


No apologies please! We're brothers here



UKBengali said:


> You are a little kid who has little life experience.
> 
> Read a history book and see how borders chang
> all the time..


I am amused by the fact that I am pushing your buttons this easy...
Read a history book, see speeches given in past military ceremonies...
Our military swears they won't ever wage war against and be the aggressor, that it is not what the country was founded upon, but if our sovereignty is threatened, a befitting response will come...
So unless Myanmar decides its time to mess with Bangladesh and come back for some fight... we won't be seeing any... 
the last time bd went close to war was around 2008 when Myanmar started sending drilling ships accompanied by Burmese navy warships.... too bad they ran back to their shore or you would have had your quench of blood.


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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Are you a still a student? Then you will become wiser as you grow into a mature adult.
> 
> BD MUST expand in the future in order to become a prosperous and powerful country. The Indian NE will be split
> between China and BD by 2050 - note this need not come via war as multi-ethnic India will naturally disintegrate.



Daydreaming about the disintegration of a far more powerful nation is really wise and mature.


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I am amused by the fact that I am pushing your buttons this easy...
> Read a history book, see speeches given in past military ceremonies...
> Our military swears they won't ever wage war against and be the aggressor, that it is not what the country was founded upon, but if our sovereignty is threatened, a befitting response will come...
> So unless Myanmar decides its time to mess with Bangladesh and come back for some fight... we won't be seeing any...
> the last time bd went close to war was around 2008 when Myanmar started sending drilling ships accompanied by Burmese navy warships.... too bad they ran back to their shore or you would have had your quench of blood.



You are not pushing my buttons - I am just stating you are a little kid(compared to a mature adult). Is that not a fact?

Again your complete lack of life experience shows. BD is saying what it needed to say for the time.
In the future it will talk and act different as the situation allows.



gslv mk3 said:


> Daydreaming about the disintegration of a far more powerful nation is really wise and mature.



Is there an India ethnic group to hold the artificial state intact.

Yugoslavia, Soviet Union etc all collapsed so what is different about India then?


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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Is there an India ethnic group to hold the artificial state intact.



There is no need for such an uniform ethnic group. There are several multi-ethnic nations that are far more stronger & prosperous than BD


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> There is no need for such an uniform ethnic group. There are several multi-ethnic nations that are far more stronger & prosperous than BD



Name a single one that has been in existence for at least 100 years?


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## Flynn Swagmire

Guys, please don't go off topic...

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Soviet Union etc all collapsed so what is different about India then?



Soviet union was hardly multi-ethnic & collapsed due to economic failure.



UKBengali said:


> Name a single one that has been in existence for at least 100 years?



most nation states aren't that old.


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## LookSee

UKBengali said:


> Are you a still a student? Then you will become wiser as you grow into a mature adult.
> 
> F*ck constitution etc. These things are written for a certain time and place. Everything is transient in life.
> 
> BD MUST expand in the future in order to become a prosperous and powerful country. The Indian NE will be split
> between China and BD by 2050 - note this need not come via war as multi-ethnic India will naturally disintegrate.
> 
> As regards Myanmar, Arakan will become part of BD as this is natural due to population demographics and geography. This will I think require military action but no big deal to beat the crap out of Myanmar with little cost
> in life and treasure to BD.


You are completely delusional, borders change yes but you guys will never have the sort of power to willingly change them/capture land in order to do so, especially in modern days. Unless you think BD will have the sort of power a la China/Russia to do so.. which is utterly insane.

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> Soviet union was hardly multi-ethnic & collapsed due to economic failure.
> 
> 
> 
> most nation states aren't that old.



@OrdinaryGenius : Yes, this is off-topic.

If you want to discuss then open a new thread and I will be happy to show you the complete failure of ALL multi-ethnic states to survive over time and the reasons why.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Yugoslavia, Soviet Union etc all collapsed so what is different about India then?



Most projection predict India will become an economy larger than US by 2050. And you're predicting that such a huge, powerful economy will disintegrate. Nice delusions.


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## Avicenna

gslv mk3 said:


> Most projection predict India will become an economy larger than US by 2050. And you're predicting that such a huge, powerful economy will disintegrate. Nice delusions.


your all delusional.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> You are not pushing my buttons - I am just stating you are a little kid(compared to a mature adult). Is that not a fact?
> 
> Again your complete lack of life experience shows. BD is saying what it needed to say for the time.
> In the future it will talk and act different as the situation allows.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there an India ethnic group to hold the artificial state intact.
> 
> Yugoslavia, Soviet Union etc all collapsed so what is different about India then?


Define kid...
Arguing with your delusional mind will further make your stubborn mind utter some nonsense....
Whatever you say


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## Banglar Bir

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Define kid...
> Arguing with your delusional mind will further make your stubborn mind utter some nonsense....
> Whatever you say


Cut it out brothers, unnecessary mudslinging amongst ourselves.


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## BanglarBagh

gslv mk3 said:


> Most projection predict India will become an economy larger than US by 2050. And you're predicting that such a huge, powerful economy will disintegrate. Nice delusions.



I don't know about disintegration. but you surely don't believe india will be a larger economy than US in 2050. that is the most delusional thing i have heard so far. even china can't think of overtaking the US, do you know why? because US prints dollars which india doesn't. unless you already planned to replace US dollars by rupees as international currency, which might be another delusion!!!

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## Nabil365

BanglarBagh said:


> I don't know about disintegration. but you surely don't believe india will be a larger economy than US in 2050. that is the most delusional thing i have heard so far. even china can't think of overtaking the US, do you know why? because US prints dollars which india doesn't. unless you already planned to replace US dollars by rupees as international currency, which might be another delusion!!!


No no no India is a Supa Pawa.

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## masud



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## Michael Corleone

All 4 c-130 are upgraded to H variant and are in service now. The upgrades were carried out in Malaysia.


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## masud

Two more Dornier Do 228 & Two AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat will join Bangladesh Navy (BN)
http://www.dailybdnews.net/?p=20715

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## bdslph

masud said:


> Two more Dornier Do 228 & Two AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat will join Bangladesh Navy (BN)
> http://www.dailybdnews.net/?p=20715



thats a navy news


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## masud

bdslph said:


> thats a navy news


My mistek..........

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## masud



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## Banglar Bir

Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB




A large Defence deal is likely to be concluded between China and Bangladesh by year end.

এই বছরের শেষ দিকেই চীনের সাথে বেশ বড় ধরনের সামরিক চুক্তি হতে যাচ্ছে যা আমরা অনেক আগেই বলেছিলাম।
Agreement for One Billion U.S $ likely to be concluded for Bangladesh Airforce, for these hardwares 
বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য প্রায় ১ বিলিয়ন ডলারের চুক্তি হতে পারে যার মধ্যে থাকবে ১৬ টি 16x J-10B/FC-20 যুদ্ধবিমান ,৭ টি 7x K-8W, জেট ট্রেইনার, ১ টি স্ট্র‍্যাটিজিক ট্রান্সপোর্ট 1X Xian Y-20 Strategic Transport (likely সম্ভবত), ১ টি 1x KJ-200 AEW&C বিমান (সম্ভবত- likely) এবং and AD Missile System এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল সিস্টেম।




ছবিতে চাইনিজ J-10B ফাইটার বিমানের সাথে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর কয়েকজন বৈমানিক এবং চীনের বিমানবাহিনী প্রধান কতৃক বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী প্রধানকে J-10B এর রেপ্লিকা উপহার দেয়া হচ্ছে।

Photo-ছবি- বিডিমিলিটারী BDMilitary এবং ISPR.

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## bdslph

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A large Defence deal is likely to be concluded between China and Bangladesh by year end.
> 
> এই বছরের শেষ দিকেই চীনের সাথে বেশ বড় ধরনের সামরিক চুক্তি হতে যাচ্ছে যা আমরা অনেক আগেই বলেছিলাম।
> Agreement for One Billion U.S $ likely to be concluded for Bangladesh Airforce, for these hardwares
> বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য প্রায় ১ বিলিয়ন ডলারের চুক্তি হতে পারে যার মধ্যে থাকবে ১৬ টি 16x J-10B/FC-20 যুদ্ধবিমান ,৭ টি 7x K-8W, জেট ট্রেইনার, ১ টি স্ট্র‍্যাটিজিক ট্রান্সপোর্ট 1X Xian Y-20 Strategic Transport (likely সম্ভবত), ১ টি 1x KJ-200 AEW&C বিমান (সম্ভবত- likely) এবং and AD Missile System এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল সিস্টেম।
> View attachment 398720
> 
> ছবিতে চাইনিজ J-10B ফাইটার বিমানের সাথে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর কয়েকজন বৈমানিক এবং চীনের বিমানবাহিনী প্রধান কতৃক বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী প্রধানকে J-10B এর রেপ্লিকা উপহার দেয়া হচ্ছে।
> 
> Photo-ছবি- বিডিমিলিটারী BDMilitary এবং ISPR.



that a big confirmation then and it might be more then a billion USD deal

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## Banglar Bir

bdslph said:


> that a big confirmation then and it might be more than a billion USD deal







Mohammed Khaled said:


> No apologies please! We're brothers here
> I am amused by the fact that I am pushing your buttons this easy...
> Read a history book, see speeches given in past military ceremonies...
> Our military swears they won't ever wage war against and be the aggressor, that it is not what the country was founded upon, but if our sovereignty is threatened, a befitting response will come...
> So unless Myanmar decides its time to mess with Bangladesh and come back for some fight... we won't be seeing any...
> the last time bd went close to war was around 2008 when Myanmar started sending drilling ships accompanied by Burmese navy warships.... too bad they ran back to their shore or you would have had your quench of blood.


We won't need to, always remember the proven fact that, "Disintegration Occurs from Within", direct external intervention, solidifies and unites. However, little efforts/material assistance,etc. always has its positive rewards,in the longer run.

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## Banglar Bir

Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB









LY-80E MRSAM System, Bangladesh Air Force forthcoming induction. আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীর আপকামিং মিডিয়াম রেঞ্জ সারফেস টু এয়ার মিসাইল সিস্টেম (MRSAM).
A tender was floated last February, for a Battery of MRSAM, it's now nearly 100% confirmed that this Chinese system will be inducted. Range 30 Km. However, the procurement of
LY-80 D for Bangladesh Army will have a range of 70Km.
এটি চীনের তৈরি একটি অত্যাধুনিক মিডিয়াম রেঞ্জ মিসাইল সিস্টেম। বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ফেব্রুয়ারি মাসে ১ ব্যাটারির জন্য টেন্ডার ছাড়া হয়েছে এবং সেই টেন্ডার LY-80E জিতে নিয়েছে তা প্রায় ১০০% নিশ্চিত। এটির রেঞ্জ ৩০ কিমি। তবে সেনাবাহিনীর জন্য যে LY-80D কেনা হবে তার রেঞ্জ ৭০ কিমি হবে।

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর Under BAF'S Integrated Air Defence system এর অধীনে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য মিনিমাম ২ রেজিমেন্ট a minimum of 2x Regiments of LY-80E will be purchased.কেনা হবে যা বিমানবাহিনীর BAF's Northern Command এবং and Southern Command এর হাতে থাকবে এবং মুল কমান্ড থাকবে, main command will be retained by the Central Command এর হাতে।

টেন্ডার অনুযায়ী অর্ডার দেয়ার withinin 20 months after placement of order, the items have to be delivered ২০ মাসের মধ্যে ডেলিভারি দিতে হবে। তাই আশা করা যায় ২০১৮(middle of 2018) সালের মাঝামাঝি সময়ে তা বিমানবাহিনীর these will be intrigated by into BAF's Air Defence unit .এ যুক্ত হবে।

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## UKBengali

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A large Defence deal is likely to be concluded between China and Bangladesh by year end.
> 
> এই বছরের শেষ দিকেই চীনের সাথে বেশ বড় ধরনের সামরিক চুক্তি হতে যাচ্ছে যা আমরা অনেক আগেই বলেছিলাম।
> Agreement for One Billion U.S $ likely to be concluded for Bangladesh Airforce, for these hardwares
> বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য প্রায় ১ বিলিয়ন ডলারের চুক্তি হতে পারে যার মধ্যে থাকবে ১৬ টি 16x J-10B/FC-20 যুদ্ধবিমান ,৭ টি 7x K-8W, জেট ট্রেইনার, ১ টি স্ট্র‍্যাটিজিক ট্রান্সপোর্ট 1X Xian Y-20 Strategic Transport (likely সম্ভবত), ১ টি 1x KJ-200 AEW&C বিমান (সম্ভবত- likely) এবং and AD Missile System এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল সিস্টেম।
> View attachment 398720
> 
> ছবিতে চাইনিজ J-10B ফাইটার বিমানের সাথে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর কয়েকজন বৈমানিক এবং চীনের বিমানবাহিনী প্রধান কতৃক বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী প্রধানকে J-10B এর রেপ্লিকা উপহার দেয়া হচ্ছে।
> 
> Photo-ছবি- বিডিমিলিটারী BDMilitary এবং ISPR.



So hope that this news is true.

With 1 KJ-200, 16 J-10B, 12 SU-30SME and 8 upgraded Mig-29s BD will at last have an air-force worthy of the name.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> So hope that this news is true.
> 
> With 1 KJ-200, 16 J-10B, 12 SU-30SME and 8 upgraded Mig-29s BD will at last have an air-force worthy of the name.


Don't forget LY-80D


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Don't forget LY-80D



The most interesting part is the additional 7 K-8W.
So then BD will have 16 YAK-130 and 15 K-8W trainers. This amount of trainers can train for many more planes than the 36 fighters tallied in my last post.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> The most interesting part is the additional 7 K-8W.
> So then BD will have 16 YAK-130 and 15 K-8W trainers. This amount of trainers can train for many more planes than the 36 fighters tallied in my last post.



Good move to standardize the trainers to three types including these two jet types and the prop CJ-6.

In the past we had so many types. L-39's were the only modern ones but then we had ancient T-37 Tweets and Fouga Magisters among so many other types.

However by now we should have gotten new prop trainer type with the Hongdu CJ-7 (L-7), instead of CJ-6's again. Looks a lot more modern - what do you guys think?

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## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> Good move to standardize the trainers to three types including these two jet types and the prop CJ-6.
> 
> In the past we had so many types. L-39's were the only modern ones but then we had ancient T-37 Tweets and Fouga Magisters among so many other types.
> 
> However by now we should have gotten new prop trainer type with the Hongdu CJ-7 (L-7), instead of CJ-6's again. Looks a lot more modern - what do you guys think?



we can make CJ7 i mean assebble in bd even as it is easy to make that and we can mass produce it 
with co license for selling maybe  
L7 we should buy that one not the older version

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## 帅的一匹

UKBengali said:


> So hope that this news is true.
> 
> With 1 KJ-200, 16 J-10B, 12 SU-30SME and 8 upgraded Mig-29s BD will at last have an air-force worthy of the name.



Brother, at the back ground its J10A.

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## 帅的一匹

I think the FC20 fighters sold to BAF might be J10A. In my understanding with the Chinese way of export.


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## 帅的一匹

But it highly possible BAF will follow J10b order in the near future if they feel J10A is really good. China is ready to cooperate with BD in all military fields. I hope the FC20 sold to BAF will fit AESA.

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## 帅的一匹

I can't wait to see J10 in BAF's color . Party time!

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## Banglar Bir

*16x Migs 35 likely to be added to BAF Fleet by 2022-23. 160 x MRCA, within 2030.*

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## 帅的一匹

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *16x Migs 35 likely to be added to BAF Fleet by 2022-23. 160 x MRCA, within 2030.*
> 
> View attachment 398962



Its Su30SE or Mig35 coming to BAF?


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## TopCat

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *16x Migs 35 likely to be added to BAF Fleet by 2022-23. 160 x MRCA, within 2030.*
> 
> View attachment 398962


Gajakhuri ...

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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> Gajakhuri ...



Bro, so you know when FC20 will be delivered to BAF?


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## masud



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## Banglar Bir

TopCat said:


> Gajakhuri ...


We should not rule out the possibility, Moscow will definitely want a slice of the Pie, why offer the entire cake to China? For Russians $$$$$$$ matters, my friend.


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## 帅的一匹

BANGLAR BIR said:


> We should not rule out the possibility, Moscow will definitely want a slice of the Pie, why offer the entire cake to China? For Russians $$$$$$$ matters, my friend.



A combination of Russian twin engine and Chinese single engine is perfect solution for BAF. Then waiting the FC31 get matured.

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## Banglar Bir

wanglaokan said:


> A combination of Russian twin engine and Chinese single engine is perfect solution for BAF. Then waiting the FC31 get matured.



Indeed a proven " All Weather, Time Tested Friend and Strategic Partner",as stated by your great leaders at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Good move to standardize the trainers to three types including these two jet types and the prop CJ-6.
> 
> In the past we had so many types. L-39's were the only modern ones but then we had ancient T-37 Tweets and Fouga Magisters among so many other types.
> 
> However by now we should have gotten new prop trainer type with the Hongdu CJ-7 (L-7), instead of CJ-6's again. Looks a lot more modern - what do you guys think?


i am sure the chinese will phase out cj-6 productions in coming years... cj-7 and yak-152 should be equally concentrated on..... they're more fuel efficient and will certainly cost a lot less to maintain.....

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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> Bro, so you know when FC20 will be delivered to BAF?


I think they will work on it after finalizing deal fo sukuis. The order is not placed yet. I heard it will be by the end of the year.

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## bdslph

is that J10 B short take off i cannot understand the distance

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## Banglar Bir

Syed Amar Khan‎BDMilitary+
Yesterday · 
BAF actually uses FN MAG MMGs. They are mounted on the AgustaWestland helicopters purchased from Leonardo Company. More will come as Bangladesh armed forces will become a major client of Italian giant Leonardo.

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## Arthur

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Syed Amar Khan‎BDMilitary+
> Yesterday ·
> BAF actually uses FN MAG MMGs. They are mounted on the AgustaWestland helicopters purchased from Leonardo Company. More will come as Bangladesh armed forces will become a major client of Italian giant Leonardo.
> View attachment 399388


FN MAG is the primary MG installed onboard BAF helicopters. These are not limited to AW 139.

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## ghost250

http://www.dailybdnews.net/?p=20915

*ডেইলি বিডি নিউজঃ* ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র তাণ্ডব থেকে বাঁচাতে চট্টগ্রামস্থ বিমান বাহিনী ঘাঁটি বিএএফ বেস জহুরে বিরাজ করছে সর্তকবস্থা। ইতিমধ্যে বিমান ঘাঁটির বেশীরভাগ বিমানকে নিরাপদে রাখতে অন্যত্র সরিয়ে নেয়া হয়েছে। বিমানবাহিনী ছাড়াও বাংলাদেশ নেভাল এভিয়েশনের বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টার সমুহও সরিয়ে নেয়া হয়েছে নিরাপদ আশ্রয়ে। এছাড়া শাহ আমানত বিমানবন্দর ও কক্সবাজার বিমানবন্দরে উড়োজাহাজ চলাচল বন্ধ করেছে সিভিল এভিয়েশন অথরিটি। চট্টগ্রামের শাহ্ আমানত আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর ও বরিশাল বিমানবন্দরে আবহাওয়া পরিস্থিতি বিবেচনা করে সর্তক অবস্থানে থাকতে বলা হয়েছে।

এদিকে ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র কারণে চট্টগ্রাম নৌঘাটি থেকে ১০টি যুদ্ধজাহাজ ও চট্টগ্রাম কোস্টগার্ডের দুটি জাহাজ নিরাপদ আশ্রয়ে রাখতে মংলায় নিয়ে আসা হয়েছে।

একটি বিশ্বস্ত সুত্রে জানা যায়, চট্টগ্রামস্থ বিমান বাহিনী ঘাঁটি বিএএফ বেস জহুরের বেশিরভাগ বিমান ঢাকাস্থ বিএএফ বেস বঙ্গবন্ধু এবং যশোরের বিএএফ বেস মতিউর রহমানে স্থানান্তর করা হয়েছে।

ঘূর্ণিঝড় মোরার কারণে মঙ্গলবার সকাল থেকে দুপুর ২টা পর্যন্ত চট্টগ্রামে শাহ আমানত বিমানবন্দরে উড়োজাহাজ ওঠা-নামা বন্ধ থাকবে। ১০ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সঙ্কেত নিয়ে আসা ঘূর্ণিঝড়টি মঙ্গলবার সকাল নাগাদ চট্টগ্রাম উপকূলে আঘাত হানবে বলে আভাস দেওয়া হচ্ছে, তাই সতর্কতা হিসেবে বিমানবন্দর কর্তৃপক্ষের এই পদক্ষেপ। শাহ আমানতে সোমবার রাতে শেষ ফ্লাইটটি রাত ১১টায়, সে পর্যন্ত কার্যক্রম স্বাভাবিকভাবে চলবে বলে জানিয়েছেন বিমানবন্দরটির ব্যবস্থাপক উইং কমান্ডার মোহাম্মদ রিয়াজুল কবির।

সোমবার রাত ১১টার পর থেকে মঙ্গলবার সকাল পর্যন্ত আর কোনো ফ্লাইট নেই শাহ আমানতে।

রিয়াজুল কবির ডেইলি বিডি নিউজ কে বলেন, আগামীকাল (মঙ্গলবার) সকাল পৌনে ৬টা থেকে দুপুর ২টা পর্যন্ত শাহ আমানত আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দরে কোনো ফ্লাইট চলাচল করবে না। এয়ারলাইন্সগুলোকে চিঠি পাঠিয়ে তা জানিয়ে দেওয়া হয়েছে বলে জানান তিনি।

এছাড়া, ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র কারণে চট্টগ্রাম ও কক্সবাজার সমুদ্রবন্দরসমূহকে ‘সাত’ নম্বর হুঁশিয়ারি সংকেত নামিয়ে ‘১০ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সংকেত’ দেখিয়ে যেতে বলা হয়েছে। এছাড়া পায়রা ও মংলা বন্দরকে ‘৫’ নম্বর হুঁশিয়ারি সংকেত নামিয়ে ‘৮’ নম্বর পুনঃ ‘৮’ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সংকেত দেখাতে বলা হয়েছে।

উল্লেখ্য, ১৯৯১ সালের ২৯ এপ্রিল বাংলাদেশে আঘাত হানা ঘূর্ণিঝড় মেরি অ্যানের আঘাতে বিভিন্ন ধরণের ১৫০ জঙ্গিবিমান, প্রশিক্ষণ বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টার হারায় বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী। এমনকি পাঁচটি এমআই-৮ হেলিকপ্টার, যেগুলো সদ্য সোভিয়েত ইউনিয়ন থেকে আনা হয়েছিলো, এবং তখনো খণ্ড খণ্ড অবস্থায় হ্যাঙ্গারে বাক্সবন্দী ছিলো; সেগুলোও জলোচ্ছ্বাসে পুরোপুরি বিকল হয়।

এছাড়া বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীও প্রচণ্ড ক্ষতির সম্মুখীন হয়। বেশ কিছু ছোট রণতরী ধ্বংস হয়। ফ্রিগেট আবু বকর দড়ি ছিঁড়ে কালুরঘাট রেলসেতুর সাথে ধাক্কা লেগে এতোটাই ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত হয় যে, বছর দুয়েক আগে ডিকমিশন্ড হবার আগ পর্যন্ত এটি আর কখনো পূর্ণরূপে কর্মক্ষম ছিলো না। যুদ্ধ জাহাজ উমর ফারুক এবং ওসমান সহ প্রতিটি অক্ষত রণতরীই কোন না কোন ক্ষতির শিকার হয়।

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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> http://www.dailybdnews.net/?p=20915
> 
> *ডেইলি বিডি নিউজঃ* ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র তাণ্ডব থেকে বাঁচাতে চট্টগ্রামস্থ বিমান বাহিনী ঘাঁটি বিএএফ বেস জহুরে বিরাজ করছে সর্তকবস্থা। ইতিমধ্যে বিমান ঘাঁটির বেশীরভাগ বিমানকে নিরাপদে রাখতে অন্যত্র সরিয়ে নেয়া হয়েছে। বিমানবাহিনী ছাড়াও বাংলাদেশ নেভাল এভিয়েশনের বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টার সমুহও সরিয়ে নেয়া হয়েছে নিরাপদ আশ্রয়ে। এছাড়া শাহ আমানত বিমানবন্দর ও কক্সবাজার বিমানবন্দরে উড়োজাহাজ চলাচল বন্ধ করেছে সিভিল এভিয়েশন অথরিটি। চট্টগ্রামের শাহ্ আমানত আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর ও বরিশাল বিমানবন্দরে আবহাওয়া পরিস্থিতি বিবেচনা করে সর্তক অবস্থানে থাকতে বলা হয়েছে।
> 
> এদিকে ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র কারণে চট্টগ্রাম নৌঘাটি থেকে ১০টি যুদ্ধজাহাজ ও চট্টগ্রাম কোস্টগার্ডের দুটি জাহাজ নিরাপদ আশ্রয়ে রাখতে মংলায় নিয়ে আসা হয়েছে।
> 
> একটি বিশ্বস্ত সুত্রে জানা যায়, চট্টগ্রামস্থ বিমান বাহিনী ঘাঁটি বিএএফ বেস জহুরের বেশিরভাগ বিমান ঢাকাস্থ বিএএফ বেস বঙ্গবন্ধু এবং যশোরের বিএএফ বেস মতিউর রহমানে স্থানান্তর করা হয়েছে।
> 
> ঘূর্ণিঝড় মোরার কারণে মঙ্গলবার সকাল থেকে দুপুর ২টা পর্যন্ত চট্টগ্রামে শাহ আমানত বিমানবন্দরে উড়োজাহাজ ওঠা-নামা বন্ধ থাকবে। ১০ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সঙ্কেত নিয়ে আসা ঘূর্ণিঝড়টি মঙ্গলবার সকাল নাগাদ চট্টগ্রাম উপকূলে আঘাত হানবে বলে আভাস দেওয়া হচ্ছে, তাই সতর্কতা হিসেবে বিমানবন্দর কর্তৃপক্ষের এই পদক্ষেপ। শাহ আমানতে সোমবার রাতে শেষ ফ্লাইটটি রাত ১১টায়, সে পর্যন্ত কার্যক্রম স্বাভাবিকভাবে চলবে বলে জানিয়েছেন বিমানবন্দরটির ব্যবস্থাপক উইং কমান্ডার মোহাম্মদ রিয়াজুল কবির।
> 
> সোমবার রাত ১১টার পর থেকে মঙ্গলবার সকাল পর্যন্ত আর কোনো ফ্লাইট নেই শাহ আমানতে।
> 
> রিয়াজুল কবির ডেইলি বিডি নিউজ কে বলেন, আগামীকাল (মঙ্গলবার) সকাল পৌনে ৬টা থেকে দুপুর ২টা পর্যন্ত শাহ আমানত আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দরে কোনো ফ্লাইট চলাচল করবে না। এয়ারলাইন্সগুলোকে চিঠি পাঠিয়ে তা জানিয়ে দেওয়া হয়েছে বলে জানান তিনি।
> 
> এছাড়া, ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র কারণে চট্টগ্রাম ও কক্সবাজার সমুদ্রবন্দরসমূহকে ‘সাত’ নম্বর হুঁশিয়ারি সংকেত নামিয়ে ‘১০ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সংকেত’ দেখিয়ে যেতে বলা হয়েছে। এছাড়া পায়রা ও মংলা বন্দরকে ‘৫’ নম্বর হুঁশিয়ারি সংকেত নামিয়ে ‘৮’ নম্বর পুনঃ ‘৮’ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সংকেত দেখাতে বলা হয়েছে।
> 
> উল্লেখ্য, ১৯৯১ সালের ২৯ এপ্রিল বাংলাদেশে আঘাত হানা ঘূর্ণিঝড় মেরি অ্যানের আঘাতে বিভিন্ন ধরণের ১৫০ জঙ্গিবিমান, প্রশিক্ষণ বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টার হারায় বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী। এমনকি পাঁচটি এমআই-৮ হেলিকপ্টার, যেগুলো সদ্য সোভিয়েত ইউনিয়ন থেকে আনা হয়েছিলো, এবং তখনো খণ্ড খণ্ড অবস্থায় হ্যাঙ্গারে বাক্সবন্দী ছিলো; সেগুলোও জলোচ্ছ্বাসে পুরোপুরি বিকল হয়।
> 
> এছাড়া বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীও প্রচণ্ড ক্ষতির সম্মুখীন হয়। বেশ কিছু ছোট রণতরী ধ্বংস হয়। ফ্রিগেট আবু বকর দড়ি ছিঁড়ে কালুরঘাট রেলসেতুর সাথে ধাক্কা লেগে এতোটাই ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত হয় যে, বছর দুয়েক আগে ডিকমিশন্ড হবার আগ পর্যন্ত এটি আর কখনো পূর্ণরূপে কর্মক্ষম ছিলো না। যুদ্ধ জাহাজ উমর ফারুক এবং ওসমান সহ প্রতিটি অক্ষত রণতরীই কোন না কোন ক্ষতির শিকার হয়।


Where is mongla?


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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Where is mongla?



Where the Red Dot is....

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## asad71

Russia has revealed new details of the Su-30SME export variant of the Sukhoi ‘Flanker’ fighter that it launched in early 2016. 

Speaking at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace (LIMA) exhibition in Malaysia, president of Irkut Corporation Oleg Demchenko revealed performance specifications for the twin-seat derivative of the Su-30SM that recently entered service with Russia and Kazakhstan (the Su-30SM is itself a development of the Su-30MKI sold to India). 

The Su-30SME has a normal take-off weight of 26,090 kg, a maximum take-off weight of 34,000 kg, a speed of 1.75 Mach, and normal/maximum fuel weights of 5,270/9,300 kg respectively. It has operational range of 1,280 km at sea-level and at a speed of 800 km/h; of 3,000 km flying at a high altitude and at a speed of 900 km/h; and of 5,600 km with one air refuelling contact. 

The Su-30SME is powered by two AL-31FP afterburner jet engines with thrust vectoring control. The powerplants have a combined thrust of 25,000 kg, and afford the fighter a combat payload of up to 8,000 kg mounted from its 12 hardpoints. 

The avionics suite of the Su-30SME has been upgraded and the aircraft equipped for infrared and laser targeting pods for ground target acquisition and engagement. The new fire control radar can acquire and track 15 aerial targets simultaneously while being able to attack four at once. Other features include an integrated electro-optical targeting sensor coupled with a laser inertial navigation system, a helmet-mounted target designator, and satellite navigation system compatible with the GLONASS and NAVSTAR formats. 

“The Su-30SME is an upgraded modern platform based on Russian equipment,” Demchenko said. “As the basic Russian Su-30SM version develops, the capabilities of the export Su-30SME will also expand.”



R



shourov323 said:


> http://www.dailybdnews.net/?p=20915
> 
> *ডেইলি বিডি নিউজঃ* ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র তাণ্ডব থেকে বাঁচাতে চট্টগ্রামস্থ বিমান বাহিনী ঘাঁটি বিএএফ বেস জহুরে বিরাজ করছে সর্তকবস্থা। ইতিমধ্যে বিমান ঘাঁটির বেশীরভাগ বিমানকে নিরাপদে রাখতে অন্যত্র সরিয়ে নেয়া হয়েছে। বিমানবাহিনী ছাড়াও বাংলাদেশ নেভাল এভিয়েশনের বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টার সমুহও সরিয়ে নেয়া হয়েছে নিরাপদ আশ্রয়ে। এছাড়া শাহ আমানত বিমানবন্দর ও কক্সবাজার বিমানবন্দরে উড়োজাহাজ চলাচল বন্ধ করেছে সিভিল এভিয়েশন অথরিটি। চট্টগ্রামের শাহ্ আমানত আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর ও বরিশাল বিমানবন্দরে আবহাওয়া পরিস্থিতি বিবেচনা করে সর্তক অবস্থানে থাকতে বলা হয়েছে।
> 
> এদিকে ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র কারণে চট্টগ্রাম নৌঘাটি থেকে ১০টি যুদ্ধজাহাজ ও চট্টগ্রাম কোস্টগার্ডের দুটি জাহাজ নিরাপদ আশ্রয়ে রাখতে মংলায় নিয়ে আসা হয়েছে।
> 
> একটি বিশ্বস্ত সুত্রে জানা যায়, চট্টগ্রামস্থ বিমান বাহিনী ঘাঁটি বিএএফ বেস জহুরের বেশিরভাগ বিমান ঢাকাস্থ বিএএফ বেস বঙ্গবন্ধু এবং যশোরের বিএএফ বেস মতিউর রহমানে স্থানান্তর করা হয়েছে।
> 
> ঘূর্ণিঝড় মোরার কারণে মঙ্গলবার সকাল থেকে দুপুর ২টা পর্যন্ত চট্টগ্রামে শাহ আমানত বিমানবন্দরে উড়োজাহাজ ওঠা-নামা বন্ধ থাকবে। ১০ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সঙ্কেত নিয়ে আসা ঘূর্ণিঝড়টি মঙ্গলবার সকাল নাগাদ চট্টগ্রাম উপকূলে আঘাত হানবে বলে আভাস দেওয়া হচ্ছে, তাই সতর্কতা হিসেবে বিমানবন্দর কর্তৃপক্ষের এই পদক্ষেপ। শাহ আমানতে সোমবার রাতে শেষ ফ্লাইটটি রাত ১১টায়, সে পর্যন্ত কার্যক্রম স্বাভাবিকভাবে চলবে বলে জানিয়েছেন বিমানবন্দরটির ব্যবস্থাপক উইং কমান্ডার মোহাম্মদ রিয়াজুল কবির।
> 
> সোমবার রাত ১১টার পর থেকে মঙ্গলবার সকাল পর্যন্ত আর কোনো ফ্লাইট নেই শাহ আমানতে।
> 
> রিয়াজুল কবির ডেইলি বিডি নিউজ কে বলেন, আগামীকাল (মঙ্গলবার) সকাল পৌনে ৬টা থেকে দুপুর ২টা পর্যন্ত শাহ আমানত আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দরে কোনো ফ্লাইট চলাচল করবে না। এয়ারলাইন্সগুলোকে চিঠি পাঠিয়ে তা জানিয়ে দেওয়া হয়েছে বলে জানান তিনি।
> 
> এছাড়া, ঘূর্ণিঝড় ‘মোরা’র কারণে চট্টগ্রাম ও কক্সবাজার সমুদ্রবন্দরসমূহকে ‘সাত’ নম্বর হুঁশিয়ারি সংকেত নামিয়ে ‘১০ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সংকেত’ দেখিয়ে যেতে বলা হয়েছে। এছাড়া পায়রা ও মংলা বন্দরকে ‘৫’ নম্বর হুঁশিয়ারি সংকেত নামিয়ে ‘৮’ নম্বর পুনঃ ‘৮’ নম্বর মহাবিপদ সংকেত দেখাতে বলা হয়েছে।
> 
> উল্লেখ্য, ১৯৯১ সালের ২৯ এপ্রিল বাংলাদেশে আঘাত হানা ঘূর্ণিঝড় মেরি অ্যানের আঘাতে বিভিন্ন ধরণের ১৫০ জঙ্গিবিমান, প্রশিক্ষণ বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টার হারায় বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী। এমনকি পাঁচটি এমআই-৮ হেলিকপ্টার, যেগুলো সদ্য সোভিয়েত ইউনিয়ন থেকে আনা হয়েছিলো, এবং তখনো খণ্ড খণ্ড অবস্থায় হ্যাঙ্গারে বাক্সবন্দী ছিলো; সেগুলোও জলোচ্ছ্বাসে পুরোপুরি বিকল হয়।
> 
> এছাড়া বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীও প্রচণ্ড ক্ষতির সম্মুখীন হয়। বেশ কিছু ছোট রণতরী ধ্বংস হয়। ফ্রিগেট আবু বকর দড়ি ছিঁড়ে কালুরঘাট রেলসেতুর সাথে ধাক্কা লেগে এতোটাই ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত হয় যে, বছর দুয়েক আগে ডিকমিশন্ড হবার আগ পর্যন্ত এটি আর কখনো পূর্ণরূপে কর্মক্ষম ছিলো না। যুদ্ধ জাহাজ উমর ফারুক এবং ওসমান সহ প্রতিটি অক্ষত রণতরীই কোন না কোন ক্ষতির শিকার হয়।



After devastation by consecutive cyclones in 1960 and 1961, AM Asghar Khan had issued standing orders for PAF to abandon Chittagong as a base. Instead Chiringa was selected for reconstructing as the PAF base in the area. That was also to be a SEATO air base. However, BA Engrs have ruined the large runway during BNP rule. Oil Ahmed had allowed the roads and highway contractor working on Arakan Rd, to use the runway to base their materials, etc. Now BA has conveniently made this into a Cantt.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
35 mins · 
আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌.....

আমরা বেশ কয়েকমাস আগে থেকেই বলছিলাম বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAFএবং and China চীনের মধ্যে বেশ বড় a quite subtintial defence agreement সামরিক চুক্তি হতে যাচ্ছে যার আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১৬ টি J-10B, ৭ টি K-8w, ১ টি Xian Y-20 হেভি ট্রান্সপোর্ট এবং ১ টি KJ-200 AEW&C বিমান কেনা হবে।

Today this has been proved আজকে তা প্রমানিত হলো....একটি রাশিয়ান a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between সাইট দাবি করেছে BAF and China বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং চীনের মধ্যে for US $ 1x Billion ১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলারের সামরিক সরঞ্জাম কেনার চুক্তি হচ্ছে।যার আওতায় which would include ১৬ টি 16x J-10B, ৭ টি 7x K-8w, ১ টি 1x Y-20 এবং ১ টি 1x KJ-200 AEW&C এবং along with other equipmentsআরো অন্যান্য সরঞ্জাম কেনা হবে।

এরপরেও অনেকে বলবে আমরা ভুয়া নিউজ দেই



:3

লিংক-http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2643443.html

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## asad71

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 35 mins ·
> আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌.....
> 
> আমরা বেশ কয়েকমাস আগে থেকেই বলছিলাম বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAFএবং and China চীনের মধ্যে বেশ বড় a quite subtintial defence agreement সামরিক চুক্তি হতে যাচ্ছে যার আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১৬ টি J-10B, ৭ টি K-8w, ১ টি Xian Y-20 হেভি ট্রান্সপোর্ট এবং ১ টি KJ-200 AEW&C বিমান কেনা হবে।
> 
> Today this has been proved আজকে তা প্রমানিত হলো....একটি রাশিয়ান a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between সাইট দাবি করেছে BAF and China বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং চীনের মধ্যে for US $ 1x Billion ১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলারের সামরিক সরঞ্জাম কেনার চুক্তি হচ্ছে।যার আওতায় which would include ১৬ টি 16x J-10B, ৭ টি 7x K-8w, ১ টি 1x Y-20 এবং ১ টি 1x KJ-200 AEW&C এবং along with other equipmentsআরো অন্যান্য সরঞ্জাম কেনা হবে।
> 
> এরপরেও অনেকে বলবে আমরা ভুয়া নিউজ দেই
> 
> 
> 
> :3
> 
> লিংক-http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2643443.html
> View attachment 401021



Allah be praised. And let us pray that no awlad e Mirjafar controls our destiny. If a traitor is enthroned by us, e will surely see a replication of 23 June 1757.

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## 帅的一匹

asad71 said:


> Allah be praised. And let us pray that no awlad e Mirjafar controls our destiny. If a traitor is enthroned by us, e will surely see a replication of 23 June 1757.


Don't worry. China is at its best shape since the last 500 years. No one can't stop China and BD cooperate.



BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 35 mins ·
> আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌.....
> 
> আমরা বেশ কয়েকমাস আগে থেকেই বলছিলাম বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAFএবং and China চীনের মধ্যে বেশ বড় a quite subtintial defence agreement সামরিক চুক্তি হতে যাচ্ছে যার আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১৬ টি J-10B, ৭ টি K-8w, ১ টি Xian Y-20 হেভি ট্রান্সপোর্ট এবং ১ টি KJ-200 AEW&C বিমান কেনা হবে।
> 
> Today this has been proved আজকে তা প্রমানিত হলো....একটি রাশিয়ান a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between সাইট দাবি করেছে BAF and China বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং চীনের মধ্যে for US $ 1x Billion ১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলারের সামরিক সরঞ্জাম কেনার চুক্তি হচ্ছে।যার আওতায় which would include ১৬ টি 16x J-10B, ৭ টি 7x K-8w, ১ টি 1x Y-20 এবং ১ টি 1x KJ-200 AEW&C এবং along with other equipmentsআরো অন্যান্য সরঞ্জাম কেনা হবে।
> 
> এরপরেও অনেকে বলবে আমরা ভুয়া নিউজ দেই
> 
> 
> 
> :3
> 
> লিংক-http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2643443.html
> View attachment 401021


Can any member translate it for me, highly appreciated!

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## Michael Corleone

asad71 said:


> Allah be praised. And let us pray that no awlad e Mirjafar controls our destiny. If a traitor is enthroned by us, e will surely see a replication of 23 June 1757.


Mir zafar wasn't of true Bengali origin just like how most Bengali muslims aren't. But along with you I pray the same that hopefully no traitors stop our countries deserved place.


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## Banglar Bir

wanglaokan said:


> Don't worry. China is at its best shape since the last 500 years. No one can't stop China and BD cooperate.
> Can any member translate it for me, highly appreciated!



আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌..... "Praise be to Allah".
For the last few months we have been stating that a substantial agreement will be concluded between BAF and China, the items covered would be, as under
16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Xian Y-20 Heavy Transport and 1X KJ-200 AEW&C .

Today. this has been proved, a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between BAF and China for an amount of US $ 1x Billion as Military assistance.These would include 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Y-20 and 1x KJ-200 AEW&C along with other equipments.

Even now many will claim that we publish false news.




:3

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## 帅的一匹

BANGLAR BIR said:


> আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌..... "Praise be to Allah".
> For the last few months we have been stating that a substantial agreement will be concluded between BAF and China, the items covered would be, as under
> 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Xian Y-20 Heavy Transport and 1X KJ-200 AEW&C .
> 
> Today. this has been proved, a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between BAF and China for an amount of US $ 1x Billion as Military assistance.These would include 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Y-20 and 1x KJ-200 AEW&C along with other equipments.
> 
> Even now many will claim that we publish false news.
> 
> 
> 
> :3


Well done China.

As India give 500 millions, we should double that to show our close relationship with BD.

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## Flynn Swagmire

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 35 mins ·
> আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌.....
> 
> আমরা বেশ কয়েকমাস আগে থেকেই বলছিলাম বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAFএবং and China চীনের মধ্যে বেশ বড় a quite subtintial defence agreement সামরিক চুক্তি হতে যাচ্ছে যার আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১৬ টি J-10B, ৭ টি K-8w, ১ টি Xian Y-20 হেভি ট্রান্সপোর্ট এবং ১ টি KJ-200 AEW&C বিমান কেনা হবে।
> 
> Today this has been proved আজকে তা প্রমানিত হলো....একটি রাশিয়ান a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between সাইট দাবি করেছে BAF and China বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং চীনের মধ্যে for US $ 1x Billion ১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলারের সামরিক সরঞ্জাম কেনার চুক্তি হচ্ছে।যার আওতায় which would include ১৬ টি 16x J-10B, ৭ টি 7x K-8w, ১ টি 1x Y-20 এবং ১ টি 1x KJ-200 AEW&C এবং along with other equipmentsআরো অন্যান্য সরঞ্জাম কেনা হবে।
> 
> এরপরেও অনেকে বলবে আমরা ভুয়া নিউজ দেই :3
> 
> লিংক-http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2643443.html
> View attachment 401021


What! We are getting Y-20 transporter?

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## 帅的一匹

OrdinaryGenius said:


> What! We are getting Y-20 transporter?


I won't feel surprise per China-BD relationship.

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## Banglar Bir

OrdinaryGenius said:


> What! We are getting Y-20 transporter?

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## Avicenna

BANGLAR BIR said:


> আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌..... "Praise be to Allah".
> For the last few months we have been stating that a substantial agreement will be concluded between BAF and China, the items covered would be, as under
> 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Xian Y-20 Heavy Transport and 1X KJ-200 AEW&C .
> 
> Today. this has been proved, a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between BAF and China for an amount of US $ 1x Billion as Military assistance.These would include 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Y-20 and 1x KJ-200 AEW&C along with other equipments.
> 
> Even now many will claim that we publish false news.
> 
> 
> 
> :3



If true, this is very reasonable and excellent news!


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## masud

1st china gave us militry HELP................
2nd India try to counter china with 500 milion...........
3rd china just out gun india with imprassive Air force contract.........
4th Russia came up with there Modern naval vassels..........
NOW WHAT? I am expecting U.S.A to out-perform them all.............

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## Nabil365

masud said:


> 1st china gave us militry HELP................
> 2nd India try to counter china with 500 milion...........
> 3rd china just out gun india with imprassive Air force contract.........
> 4th Russia came up with there Modern naval vassels..........
> NOW WHAT? I am expecting U.S.A to out-perform them all.............


Bhai English na likh te parle Bangla te likhben.Baname bhul diye bhora.


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## masud

Nabil365 said:


> Bhai English na likh te parle Bangla te likhben.Baname bhul diye bhora.


i know my english is horrible and i am sorry for that...................
kinto ai forum a khob kom sonkhok manos-e bangla boja tai banan vul thakle o ki bolte chassi seita bojate parlei holo....... PP

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## Michael Corleone

masud said:


> i know my english is horrible and i am sorry for that...................
> kinto ai forum a khob kom sonkhok manos-e bangla boja tai banan vul thakle o ki bolte chassi seita bojate parlei holo....... PP


jara bhuje tader jonnoi lekhen..... baki shob shalara ghada.



masud said:


> 1st china gave us militry HELP................
> 2nd India try to counter china with 500 milion...........
> 3rd china just out gun india with imprassive Air force contract.........
> 4th Russia came up with there Modern naval vassels..........
> NOW WHAT? I am expecting U.S.A to out-perform them all.............


most probably some retired *** junk ships for free.....


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## mb444

BANGLAR BIR said:


> আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌..... "Praise be to Allah".
> For the last few months we have been stating that a substantial agreement will be concluded between BAF and China, the items covered would be, as under
> 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Xian Y-20 Heavy Transport and 1X KJ-200 AEW&C .
> 
> Today. this has been proved, a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between BAF and China for an amount of US $ 1x Billion as Military assistance.These would include 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Y-20 and 1x KJ-200 AEW&C along with other equipments.
> 
> Even now many will claim that we publish false news.
> 
> 
> 
> :3




If we are going Chinese for the BAF, which by the way I totally approve has the Russian SU or MIG deal that has been spoken off been shelved? Or will that be an addition to these purchase. We need a strong BAF more the merrier I say.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> If we are going Chinese for the BAF, which by the way I totally approve has the Russian SU or MIG deal that has been spoken off been shelved? Or will that be an addition to these purchase. We need a strong BAF more the merrier I say.



Additional purchase for SU-30SME. The Sukhoi and J-10 will complement each other.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB with Abdullah Rahim and 2 others.*
20 hrs · 





♦বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF'S Future Long Range Air Defense Missiles ভবিষ্যতের লং রেঞ্জ এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল সিস্টেম HQ-9



♦

এটি মুলত রাশিয়ান S-300 এবং মার্কিন MIM-104 Patriot এর Chinese Versionচাইনিজ ভার্সন। যদিও এটাকে more advanced than S-300 এর চেয়ে অনেক উন্নত মনে করা হয়।

এটির রাডার হিসেবে আছে চাইনিজ Air Radar -HT-233 PESA Radar যার রেঞ্জ ৩০০ কিমি। Range 300 km.

এটির লঞ্চিং প্লাটফর্ম হিসেবে Launching Platform-Taian TA580/TAS5380 8×8 transporter erector launcher (TEL)।প্রতিটি ট্রাক ৪ টি মিসাইল বহন করে।Capable of carrying 8 x Missiles

মিসাইলের ওয়ারহেড Missile Warhead 180 kg ১৮০ কেজি এবং এটি ম্যাক-৪.২ স্পিডে Speed Mach 4.2 লক্ষ্যের দিকে ছুটে যায়।মিসাইলের রেঞ্জ Missile Range 200-280 km২০০ কিমি থেকে ২৮০ কিমি এবং কিল রেট ৯৮%.Kill Rate-98%

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর এয়ারডিফেন্স ইউনিটের জন্য ২০২২ induction by 2022 সালের মধ্যে লং রেঞ্জ মিসাইল হিসেবে এটির স্থান প্রায় পাকাপোক্ত বলা যায়।

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## asad71

Wonderful! But at first we need an independent Air Def Command which should be commanded by a BAF GDP officer. Another tri-services command should be an independent Coastal Command under a BN executive branch officer. Both under three star officers.

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## UKBengali

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB with Abdullah Rahim and 2 others.*
> 20 hrs ·
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF'S Future Long Range Air Defense Missiles ভবিষ্যতের লং রেঞ্জ এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল সিস্টেম HQ-9
> 
> 
> 
> ♦
> 
> এটি মুলত রাশিয়ান S-300 এবং মার্কিন MIM-104 Patriot এর Chinese Versionচাইনিজ ভার্সন। যদিও এটাকে more advanced than S-300 এর চেয়ে অনেক উন্নত মনে করা হয়।
> 
> এটির রাডার হিসেবে আছে চাইনিজ Air Radar -HT-233 PESA Radar যার রেঞ্জ ৩০০ কিমি। Range 300 km.
> 
> এটির লঞ্চিং প্লাটফর্ম হিসেবে Launching Platform-Taian TA580/TAS5380 8×8 transporter erector launcher (TEL)।প্রতিটি ট্রাক ৪ টি মিসাইল বহন করে।Capable of carrying 8 x Missiles
> 
> মিসাইলের ওয়ারহেড Missile Warhead 180 kg ১৮০ কেজি এবং এটি ম্যাক-৪.২ স্পিডে Speed Mach 4.2 লক্ষ্যের দিকে ছুটে যায়।মিসাইলের রেঞ্জ Missile Range 200-280 km২০০ কিমি থেকে ২৮০ কিমি এবং কিল রেট ৯৮%.Kill Rate-98%
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর এয়ারডিফেন্স ইউনিটের জন্য ২০২২ induction by 2022 সালের মধ্যে লং রেঞ্জ মিসাইল হিসেবে এটির স্থান প্রায় পাকাপোক্ত বলা যায়।
> View attachment 401341





Simply more excellent news!

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## bdslph

i more wanting the s400 or the latest Chinese SAM


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
3 hrs · 
এই অর্থবছরে (২০১৮-১৯) in FY 2018-2019 অর্থবছরে বিমানবাহিনীর additional purchases will be made for BAF BAF জন্য আরো বেশ কিছু কেনাকাটা হবে বলে শোনা গেছে....

চীনের থেকে বিমানবাহিনীর ১ বিলিয়ন ডলার ঋন নিয়ে বিভিন্ন সরঞ্জাম কেনা হচ্ছে যা আপনাদের জানানো হয়েছে।
The list of equipment's to be procured under U.S $ 1 Billion Chinese credit was intimated earlier.
এবার বাজেটের টাকা within our budget দিয়ে আরো বেশ কিছু বিমান few aircraft's and Air Defense System এবং এয়ারডিফেন্স সিস্টেম কেনা হবে এবং এগুলো প্রায় নিশ্চিত। আসুন দেখে নেয়া যাক আরো কি কি কেনা হতে পারে এই অর্থবছরে-

>৫ টি রাশিয়ান 5 X Mi-171sh Russian Helicoptersহেলিকপ্টার 
>২ টি ইটালিয়ান 2 x Italian AW-139 SAR Helicopters হেলিকপ্টার 
>৩ টি 3 x AW-119 Training Helicoptersট্রেনিং হেলিকপ্টার
>৩ টি মিডিয়াম ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান ( 3 x medium transport C-27J Spartan/ CASA CN-295W)
>১টি 1 x Selex RAT-31DL AESA Radar Systemরাডার সিস্টেম
>নতুন New UAV system
>আরো ১/২ ব্যাটারি 1/2 Batteries x FM-90 SAM system

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## asad71

China has direct stake in strengthening our mily. We must utilize this. No other country - even Russia or USA would go that far in assisting us. We need to appoint very smart diplomats and DA at Beijing. Objective should be to acquire eqpt that would keep IAF and IN at bay. Our requirement being small, will not strain our economy.

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## UKBengali

asad71 said:


> China has direct stake in strengthening our mily. We must utilize this. No other country - even Russia or USA would go that far in assisting us. We need to appoint very smart diplomats and DA at Beijing. Objective should be to acquire eqpt that would keep IAF and IN at bay. Our requirement being small, will not strain our economy.



No need to increase defence spending as percentage of GDP when China is ready to supply at cost price and soft loans.


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## BDforever

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 3 hrs ·
> এই অর্থবছরে (২০১৮-১৯) in FY 2018-2019 অর্থবছরে বিমানবাহিনীর additional purchases will be made for BAF BAF জন্য আরো বেশ কিছু কেনাকাটা হবে বলে শোনা গেছে....
> 
> চীনের থেকে বিমানবাহিনীর ১ বিলিয়ন ডলার ঋন নিয়ে বিভিন্ন সরঞ্জাম কেনা হচ্ছে যা আপনাদের জানানো হয়েছে।
> The list of equipment's to be procured under U.S $ 1 Billion Chinese credit was intimated earlier.
> এবার বাজেটের টাকা within our budget দিয়ে আরো বেশ কিছু বিমান few aircraft's and Air Defense System এবং এয়ারডিফেন্স সিস্টেম কেনা হবে এবং এগুলো প্রায় নিশ্চিত। আসুন দেখে নেয়া যাক আরো কি কি কেনা হতে পারে এই অর্থবছরে-
> 
> >৫ টি রাশিয়ান 5 X Mi-171sh Russian Helicoptersহেলিকপ্টার
> >২ টি ইটালিয়ান 2 x Italian AW-139 SAR Helicopters হেলিকপ্টার
> >৩ টি 3 x AW-119 Training Helicoptersট্রেনিং হেলিকপ্টার
> >৩ টি মিডিয়াম ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান ( 3 x medium transport C-27J Spartan/ CASA CN-295W)
> >১টি 1 x Selex RAT-31DL AESA Radar Systemরাডার সিস্টেম
> >নতুন New UAV system
> >আরো ১/২ ব্যাটারি 1/2 Batteries x FM-90 SAM system
> 
> View attachment 401449


so six Mi71sh for BA and five Mi171sh for BAF ?

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
50 mins ·
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF PURCHASEজন্য কেনা COST LIST বিমানের মুল্য তালিকা HAS BEEN PUBLISHED TODAY আজ প্রকাশিত হয়েছে-

>১২ (৮+৪) টি 12 X(8+4) SU-30SME হেভি MRCA=520 Million US $ এর দাম ৫২০ মিলিয়ন (ক্রেডিট)-Credit,
>১৬ টি 16X J-10B মিডিয়াম MRCA এর দাম ৬৯০ US$ 690 Millionমিলিয়ন (ক্রেডিট)-Credit
>৭ টি 7 X K-8w AJT এর দাম ৭০ মিলিয়ন US $ 70 Million (ক্রেডিট)-Credit
>১ টি 1 x Xian Y-20 স্ট্র‍্যাটিজিক ট্রান্সপোর্ট এর দাম ১৬০ মিলিয়ন US$ 160 Million (ক্রেডিট)-Credit
>১ টি 1 x KJ-200 AEW&C এর দাম ৮০ মিলিয়ন (ক্রেডিট)US$ 80 Million-Credit
>৬ টি 6 x AW-139 MSAR হেলিকপ্টার এর দাম ৮০ মিলিয়ন (ক্যাশ) US $ 80 Million-Cash
>৩ টি 3X C-27J Spartan এর দাম ১৫০ মিলিয়ন (ক্যাশ) US $ 150 Million-Cash
>৩ টি 3 X AW-119 LUH এর দাম ৬ মিলিয়ন (ক্যাশ) US $ 6 Million-Cash




সোর্স-বিডিমিলিটারী+



BDforever said:


> so six Mi71sh for BA and five Mi171sh for BAF ?


Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
31 May ·
#Good_News

বিডিমিলিটারী+ এর তথ্যানুসারে বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনী আরো কয়েকটি Mi-171sh ক্লোজ এয়ার সাপোর্ট CAS হেলিকপ্টার কিনতে যাচ্ছে।

বর্তমানে সেনাবাহিনীর বহরে এরকম Currently has 6 x৬ টি হেলিকপ্টার আছে। গতমাসে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য আরো ৫ টি last month 5x Mi-171sh were purchased কেনা হয়েছে।

বাংলাদেশ সসস্ত্র বাহিনীর Bangladesh Armed Forces plans to acquire বহরে মোট 50+ of such Helicopters in their fleet৫০+ এরকম হেলিকপ্টার রাখার প্ল্যান আছে।

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## asad71

Fine. But BAF should transfer the choppers to BA. Chopper is not an air force ac.

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## Deino

Hmmm ... is this officially confirmed already ?

https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/bangladesh-air-force-1-billion-aircraft-deal-china/

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## masud

Deino said:


> Hmmm ... is this officially confirmed already ?
> 
> https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/bangladesh-air-force-1-billion-aircraft-deal-china/
> 
> View attachment 401606


don,t know about official, but i think There's no smoke without fire..............

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## bdslph

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 50 mins ·
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF PURCHASEজন্য কেনা COST LIST বিমানের মুল্য তালিকা HAS BEEN PUBLISHED TODAY আজ প্রকাশিত হয়েছে-
> 
> >১২ (৮+৪) টি 12 X(8+4) SU-30SME হেভি MRCA=520 Million US $ এর দাম ৫২০ মিলিয়ন (ক্রেডিট)-Credit,
> >১৬ টি 16X J-10B মিডিয়াম MRCA এর দাম ৬৯০ US$ 690 Millionমিলিয়ন (ক্রেডিট)-Credit
> >৭ টি 7 X K-8w AJT এর দাম ৭০ মিলিয়ন US $ 70 Million (ক্রেডিট)-Credit
> >১ টি 1 x Xian Y-20 স্ট্র‍্যাটিজিক ট্রান্সপোর্ট এর দাম ১৬০ মিলিয়ন US$ 160 Million (ক্রেডিট)-Credit
> >১ টি 1 x KJ-200 AEW&C এর দাম ৮০ মিলিয়ন (ক্রেডিট)US$ 80 Million-Credit
> >৬ টি 6 x AW-139 MSAR হেলিকপ্টার এর দাম ৮০ মিলিয়ন (ক্যাশ) US $ 80 Million-Cash
> >৩ টি 3X C-27J Spartan এর দাম ১৫০ মিলিয়ন (ক্যাশ) US $ 150 Million-Cash
> >৩ টি 3 X AW-119 LUH এর দাম ৬ মিলিয়ন (ক্যাশ) US $ 6 Million-Cash
> View attachment 401589
> 
> সোর্স-বিডিমিলিটারী+
> 
> 
> Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> 31 May ·
> #Good_News
> 
> বিডিমিলিটারী+ এর তথ্যানুসারে বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনী আরো কয়েকটি Mi-171sh ক্লোজ এয়ার সাপোর্ট CAS হেলিকপ্টার কিনতে যাচ্ছে।
> 
> বর্তমানে সেনাবাহিনীর বহরে এরকম Currently has 6 x৬ টি হেলিকপ্টার আছে। গতমাসে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য আরো ৫ টি last month 5x Mi-171sh were purchased কেনা হয়েছে।
> 
> বাংলাদেশ সসস্ত্র বাহিনীর Bangladesh Armed Forces plans to acquire বহরে মোট 50+ of such Helicopters in their fleet৫০+ এরকম হেলিকপ্টার রাখার প্ল্যান আছে।
> 
> View attachment 401591



does not china have a good helicopter that BD can buy and also i read somewhere that BD will buy the Ka26 utility civilian helicopter from Russia is that true 

by the way we should buy more from China as they give a very good price and affordable

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## 帅的一匹

bdslph said:


> does not china have a good helicopter that BD can buy and also i read somewhere that BD will buy the Ka26 utility civilian helicopter from Russia is that true
> 
> by the way we should buy more from China as they give a very good price and affordable


Z15, a joint venture 7 tons utility helicopter between China AVIC and Eurocopters.

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## bdslph

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 401824
> View attachment 401823
> 
> 
> Z15, a joint venture 7 tons utility helicopter between China AVIC and Eurocopters.



z15 looks so huge and totally new its a good project did it finish the test flight and ready to export

and its medium weight utility helicopter

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## Banglar Bir

All rotary wings choppers needs to be handed over to Army+ Navy Aviation groups respectively, while the Air-force should concentrate on fixed wings MRCA's, Strategic Airlift A/C, Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses SEADS(Wild Weasel), AWACS, Air to Air fulfilling aircraft's, integrated Medium/Long range Air Defense Missiles, HI-LOW Surveillance Radars, ECM systems, highly trained +well equipped commando forces to protect all BAF installations,upgrading and converting and reinforcing the structures of all WW-2 era runways, existing national Highways, capable of handling all BAF platforms, etc, thus converting their existing manpower and resources into a highly capable and a formidable force.

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## 帅的一匹

bdslph said:


> z15 looks so huge and totally new its a good project did it finish the test flight and ready to export
> 
> and its medium weight utility helicopter


Ready for export.

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## bdslph

wanglaokan said:


> Ready for export.



can it be use for military purpose

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## 帅的一匹

bdslph said:


> can it be use for military purpose


Not sure yet, it's for commercial. We are also studying the feasibility of being it onboard through modifications.


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## asad71

_*This is Important:*_

We should convince China not to balance our procurement with Burma's. Similarly, we should tell the Russians not to balance us with India. Often our eqpt will be more advanced / potent than what our neighbors carry. Our needs are small in quantity so will be better in quality.

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## TopCat

asad71 said:


> _*This is Important:*_
> 
> We should convince China not to balance our procurement with Burma's. Similarly, we should tell the Russians not to balance us with India. Often our eqpt will be more advanced / potent than what our neighbors carry. Our needs are small in quantity so will be better in quality.



The days for balancing by burmese are gone. We needed to get that burmese irriatant out from our asss once and for all. With Su-30 and J-10 and all the goodies in BOB they will pay more attention to defend their great city in rangoon

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## asad71

TopCat said:


> The days for balancing by burmese are gone. We needed to get that burmese irriatant out from our asss once and for all. With Su-30 and J-10 and all the goodies in BOB they will pay more attention to defend their great city in rangoon



And the other one?


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## TopCat

asad71 said:


> And the other one?


We can pay more attention there which is long due.


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## bdslph

for Burmese the thing is China will not want war or fight between us 
china need friendship with both of us 
but we can afford and buy high end weapons from china 
burma is still close country that is why the military is weak

but when we have the kj200 some y20 j10b and the su30 sme and the mig 29 ungraded to smt 
that will be a deadly for burma 

well peace is the best way

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## Avicenna

asad71 said:


> _*This is Important:*_
> 
> We should convince China not to balance our procurement with Burma's. Similarly, we should tell the Russians not to balance us with India. Often our eqpt will be more advanced / potent than what our neighbors carry. Our needs are small in quantity so will be better in quality.



Please be realistic. What you are asking for is ridiculous.

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## Michael Corleone

Burmese Air Force military cargo aircraft gone missing.


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## Nabil365

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Burmese Air Force military cargo aircraft gone missing.


A former executive at the aviation ministry said many of the aircraft in Myanmar's fleet were old and decrepit. "Myanmar air force has very bad safety performance," he said, asking to remain nameless.
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...carrying-more-than-100-people-missing-8925848


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## asad71

Avicenna said:


> Please be realistic. What you are asking for is ridiculous.


What do you find ridiculous? Please explain.



bdslph said:


> for Burmese the thing is China will not want war or fight between us
> china need friendship with both of us
> but we can afford and buy high end weapons from china
> burma is still close country that is why the military is weak
> 
> but when we have the kj200 some y20 j10b and the su30 sme and the mig 29 ungraded to smt
> that will be a deadly for burma
> 
> well peace is the best way



The Mujahids. Unleashing the Mujahids will bring Burma to knees.


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## mb444

asad71 said:


> _*This is Important:*_
> 
> We should convince China not to balance our procurement with Burma's. Similarly, we should tell the Russians not to balance us with India. Often our eqpt will be more advanced / potent than what our neighbors carry. Our needs are small in quantity so will be better in quality.




I don't see how this is feasible. Chinese or the Russians are sellers of weapons, they will sell to whomever is willing to buy. They will not wish to lose potential sale so will be willing to consider bigger clients. If we are not a big client why would they care? In the Russia-india-BD scenario we have no leverage.

In the china-BD-burma scenario its different. China is our number one ally in every respect from economy to strategically to militarily. BD will always be the bigger client of China and then Burma ever can so we have leverage. However it is not in any of the three countries interest to allow for any conflinct in the region so I do not see china doing anything negative to harm BDs interest.

However coming back to your point, I am afraid no buyer of weapon have ever had much leverage over the seller of weapon in history and it is not about to change now.

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## 帅的一匹

mb444 said:


> I don't see how this is feasible. Chinese or the Russians are sellers of weapons, they will sell to whomever is willing to buy. They will not wish to lose potential sale so will be willing to consider bigger clients. If we are not a big client why would they care? In the Russia-india-BD scenario we have no leverage.
> 
> In the china-BD-burma scenario its different. China is our number one ally in every respect from economy to strategically to militarily. BD will always be the bigger client of China and then Burma ever can so we have leverage. However it is not in any of the three countries interest to allow for any conflinct in the region so I do not see china doing anything negative to harm BDs interest.
> 
> However coming back to your point, I am afraid no buyer of weapon have ever had much leverage over the seller of weapon in history and it is not about to change now.


Russia count on selling weapon to make ends meet, we aren't. Doing business with BD/invest heavily in BD/selling arms to BD is a integrated package. China and BD don't have controversial in any aspect.

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## bdslph

wanglaokan said:


> Russia count on selling weapon to make ends meet, we aren't. Doing business with BD/invest heavily in BD/selling arms to BD is a integrated package. China and BD don't have controversial in any aspect.



i wish China invest more in the field of Military and even opening up J10 service in BD after we buy 50 ac and other also


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## 帅的一匹

bdslph said:


> i wish China invest more in the field of Military and even opening up J10 service in BD after we buy 50 ac and other also


For sure

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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> Russia count on selling weapon to make ends meet, we aren't. Doing business with BD/invest heavily in BD/selling arms to BD is a integrated package. China and BD don't have controversial in any aspect.



One thing we liked about China is that when nobody used to give us any weapons, neither we nor China had enough money, China still looked after us. Everybody in our defense services know it.

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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> One thing we liked about China is that when nobody used to give us any weapons, neither we nor China had enough money, China still looked after us. Everybody in our defense services know it.


A friend through sick and thin, I had to say old generation of Chinese government is very far-sighted.

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## Banglar Bir

mb444 said:


> However it is not in any of the three countries interest to allow for any conflinct in the region so I do not see china doing anything negative to harm BDs interest..


That precisely should be our Geo Strategic vision.


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## bdslph

wanglaokan said:


> A friend through sick and thin, I had to say old generation of Chinese government is very far-sighted.



the thing i like about china and one of the reason why china became success full in military specially sale in air force planes is not because its cheap or something 
because its no string attached and also no interfere in the internal affairs of the nation

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## masud

i am interested to know that, can J-10 IS CAPABLE of BUDDY refuling ? may be the ans is yes but i need some link, thanks in advance............


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## Species

Major aircraft and air defence systems that will join the Bangladesh Air Force as per Armed Forces Goal 2030. [Part 1]

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## 帅的一匹

masud said:


> i am interested to know that, can J-10 IS CAPABLE of BUDDY refuling ? may be the ans is yes but i need some link, thanks in advance............


Not yet, but will be in the future.

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## masud

wanglaokan said:


> Not yet, but will be in the future.


Then BAF will go for this, I think.............

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## Michael Corleone

masud said:


> Then BAF will go for this, I think.............
> View attachment 402543


Jets having to buddy refuel is a sin.

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## Bilal9

masud said:


> Then BAF will go for this, I think.............
> View attachment 402543



Buddy refueling is handy and convenient when underbelly center-line hose and drogue boom pods and extra tanks can be fitted quickly to buddy platforms as @masud posted.

One doesn't need specialty tankers which may become scarce during conflict scenarios.









Su-30 MKIs of the Indian Air Force carry Cobham (UK) 754 buddy Hose and Drogue refueling pods in the fuselage center-line to ensure fueling compatibility with their fleets of Mirage and Jaguars....






... and these Cobham 754 buddy refueling pods are also installed under wings of the Indian AF IL-78s.

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## syed1

Can anyone translate this please:

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## TopCat

syed1 said:


> Can anyone translate this please:


@wanglaokan @Stuttgart001 @Beast


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## bdslph

syed1 said:


> Can anyone translate this please:



are we getting 14 j10b is it saying that


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## syed1

bdslph said:


> are we getting 14 j10b is it saying that




My guess is this VLOG talks about BD might get J 10 based on from what they read articles published by Bangladeshi defence site like bdmilitary.com


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## bluesky

Sorry, opened another thread. Please watch the confirmation of $1 billion purchase.


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## Banglar Bir

*বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী ও রাশিয়ার মধ্যে হেলিকপ্টার ক্রয় সংক্রান্ত চুক্তি স্বাক্ষর*





ঢাকা, ১৩ জুন:- বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী ও রাশিয়ার মধ্যে ০৫টি এমআই-১৭১ এসএইচ মিলিটারী পরিবহন হেলিকপ্টার ক্রয় সংক্রান্ত্র চুক্তি গত ১২ জুন ২০১৭ তারিখে বিমান বাহিনীর সদর দপ্তরে স্বাক্ষরিত হয়।

বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান এয়ার চীফ মার্শাল আবু এসরার, বিবিপি, এনডিসি, এসিএসসি উক্ত চুক্তিস্বাক্ষর অনুষ্ঠানে উপস্থিত ছিলেন। বাংলাদেশের পক্ষে সহকারী বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান (পরিচালন ও প্রশিক্ষণ) এয়ার ভাইস মার্শাল এম নাঈম হাসান, বিবিপি, ওএসপি, এএফডব্লিউসি, পিএসসি এবং রাশিয়ার পক্ষে ঔড়রহঃ ঝঃড়পশ ঈড়সঢ়ধহু “জড়ংড়নড়ৎড়হবীঢ়ড়ৎঃ” এর উবঢ়ঁঃু ঈযরবভ ড়ভ ঝবপঃরড়হ গৎ. অমববা উসরঃৎু চুক্তি স্বাক্ষর করেন।

বর্তমান সরকার বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর আধুনিকায়নে অত্যন্ত সচেষ্ট। তারই ধারাবাহিকতায় রাশিয়ার তৈরী এমআই-১৭১ এসএইচ মিলিটারী পরিবহন হেলিকপ্টার বিমান বাহিনীতে সংযোজনের পরিকল্পনা হাতে নেয়া হয় যা জাতিসংঘ শান্তিরক্ষা কার্যক্রমে ব্যবহার করা হবে।

উক্ত অনুষ্ঠানে অন্যান্যদের মধ্যে সশস্ত্র বাহিনী বিভাগের প্রিন্সিপাল স্টাফ অফিসার, বিমান সদরের প্রিন্সিপাল স্টাফ অফিসারগণ এবং উর্দ্ধতন কর্মকর্তা ছাড়াও বাংলাদেশে রাশিয়ান দূতাবাসের প্রতিনিধিগণ উপস্থিত ছিলেন।

http://www.ispr.gov.bd/auto-draft-2/

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## monitor

Rosoboronexport JSC of Russia will supply 24 Yak-130 Advanced Jet Trainer and 22 Mi-171 combat support helicopters to the Bangladesh Air Force utilising funds from the $1 billion defence credit signed back in 2013/14. 
The Russians exported 6 Mi-171 helicopters including one VVIP version to the Bangladesh Air Force for $18.56 million each, whilst they also delivered 16 Yak-130 AJTs. A second deal was signed yesterday for 5 more Mi-171Sh units. 
The Russian delegation is now finalising the deal for Su-30SME Heavy Multi-Role Combat Aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force. Eight units will be purchased, with another four coming later to complete one squadron.



Rosoboronexport JSC of Russia will supply 24 Yak-130 Advanced Jet Trainer and 22 Mi-171 combat suppo...

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## UKBengali

monitor said:


> Rosoboronexport JSC of Russia will supply 24 Yak-130 Advanced Jet Trainer and 22 Mi-171 combat support helicopters to the Bangladesh Air Force utilising funds from the $1 billion defence credit signed back in 2013/14.
> The Russians exported 6 Mi-171 helicopters including one VVIP version to the Bangladesh Air Force for $18.56 million each, whilst they also delivered 16 Yak-130 AJTs. A second deal was signed yesterday for 5 more Mi-171Sh units.
> The Russian delegation is now finalising the deal for Su-30SME Heavy Multi-Role Combat Aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force. Eight units will be purchased, with another four coming later to complete one squadron.
> 
> 
> 
> Rosoboronexport JSC of Russia will supply 24 Yak-130 Advanced Jet Trainer and 22 Mi-171 combat suppo...



What is the source?

So hope this news is true.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> What is the source?
> 
> So hope this news is true.


The source is legit. 
Same source that said we will get two Chinese MLU frigates next year and the tear after.

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## BanglarBagh

Mohammed Khaled said:


> The source is legit.
> Same source that said we will get two Chinese MLU frigates next year and the tear after.



about the yak-130, are we getting more 24 units or 8 more units to make it a total of 24?


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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> about the yak-130, are we getting more 24 units or 8 more units to make it a total of 24?


8 more which will serve the roll a5 used to.

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## monitor

__ https://www.facebook.com/





A nice video of YAK-130 operate by Bangladesh Air Force .


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## monitor

F-7BG1 operated by BAF.

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## bdslph

monitor said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nice video of YAK-130 operate by Bangladesh Air Force .



where is the video


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## ziaulislam

BANGLAR BIR said:


> আলহামদুলিল্লাহ্‌..... "Praise be to Allah".
> For the last few months we have been stating that a substantial agreement will be concluded between BAF and China, the items covered would be, as under
> 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Xian Y-20 Heavy Transport and 1X KJ-200 AEW&C .
> 
> Today. this has been proved, a Russian site, stated that an agreement has been concluded between BAF and China for an amount of US $ 1x Billion as Military assistance.These would include 16x J-10B, 7x K-8w, 1x Y-20 and 1x KJ-200 AEW&C along with other equipments.
> 
> Even now many will claim that we publish false news.
> 
> 
> 
> :3


Numbers dont make sense but can still be true


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## bdslph

ziaulislam said:


> Numbers dont make sense but can still be true



yes it can be true the number 
but from your point of view why this cannot be real just curious thanks


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## masud



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## Avicenna

This ladies and gentleman is the basis of the future for the BAF....

What a gorgeous shade of gray.


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## asad71

That's J-10C although we know of inducting the Blk B so far.


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## masud



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## 帅的一匹



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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 405225
> View attachment 405226
> View attachment 405227
> View attachment 405228


any news ?


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## TopCat

J-10 looks more like a euro fighter than F-16 other than dual engine

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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


> any news ?


No bro

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> J-10 looks more like a euro fighter than F-16 other than dual engine


Yep. But block c renderings looks like f-16... the conformal fuel tanks

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## Beast

For our Bangladesh friend, I have some inquiries on the engine used on F-7BGI. Is the engine WP-13F or the more modern WP-14 Kunlun engine? There is large number of unreliable source stating its still using the under powered WP-13F engine. Since Bangladesh F-7 supposed to be the last series of the legendary J-7 series which is also the most advanced version. I supposed the engine also received a significant upgrade that included engine.

WP-13 and WP-14 engine are hell lot different in terms of perfomance. WP-13F is an uprated modernised of Russian R-11 engine for Mig. While WP-14 Kunlun is a brand new engine with no link to R-11 and has different core with design IP right held by the Chinese which offer 50% more thrust than WP-13F.

From my Chinese source, WP-14 is still being manufactured and used even now. The targeted aircraft will be the old remaining J-8F and the JL-9G advanced trainer. I supposed BAF shall have no reason to accept a F-7BGI with a old WP-13F engine that will have 50% less thrust compare to WP-14 Kunlun engine. WP-14 Kunlun estimated to have a dry thrust of 6000kg and afterburner of 8600-9000kg of max thrust. It will offer F-7BGI tremendous increase performance in ascending acceleration, cruising speed and turn rate.

There is a news of WP-14 kunlun used by PLAAF for its J-7G in the 2009 but other than that, there is very little disclosed by PLAAF and BAF regarding this engine. It is only recently, a PLAAF sponsor documentary that shed some light on WP-14 kunlun engine which still exist and apparently used by PLAAF for its aircraft. I supposed BAF are too using such engine but there is no confirmation.

http://china-defense.blogspot.sg/2009/06/making-plaafs-quartermaster-happy.html

WP-14 Kunlun engine

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## Michael Corleone

Beast said:


> For our Bangladesh friend, I have some inquiries on the engine used on F-7BGI. Is the engine WP-13F or the more modern WP-14 Kunlun engine? There is large number of unreliable source stating its still using the under powered WP-13F engine. Since Bangladesh F-7 supposed to be the last series of the legendary J-7 series which is also the most advanced version. I supposed the engine also received a significant upgrade that included engine.
> 
> WP-13 and WP-14 engine are hell lot different in terms of perfomance. WP-13F is an uprated modernised of Russian R-11 engine for Mig. While WP-14 Kunlun is a brand new engine with no link to R-11 and has different core with design IP right held by the Chinese which offer 50% more thrust than WP-13F.
> 
> From my Chinese source, WP-14 is still being manufactured and used even now. The targeted aircraft will be the old remaining J-8F and the JL-9G advanced trainer. I supposed BAF shall have no reason to accept a F-7BGI with a old WP-13F engine that will have 50% less thrust compare to WP-14 Kunlun engine. WP-14 Kunlun estimated to have a dry thrust of 6000kg and afterburner of 8600-9000kg of max thrust. It will offer F-7BGI tremendous increase performance in ascending acceleration, cruising speed and turn rate.
> 
> There is a news of WP-14 kunlun used by PLAAF for its J-7G in the 2009 but other than that, there is very little disclosed by PLAAF and BAF regarding this engine. It is only recently, a PLAAF sponsor documentary that shed some light on WP-14 kunlun engine which still exist and apparently used by PLAAF for its aircraft. I supposed BAF are too using such engine but there is no confirmation.
> 
> http://china-defense.blogspot.sg/2009/06/making-plaafs-quartermaster-happy.html
> 
> WP-14 Kunlun engine
> View attachment 405344


we are still using WP-13.... that's what was provided in the package atleast, on the older MB variant.

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## Beast

Mohammed Khaled said:


> we are still using WP-13.... that's what was provided in the package atleast, on the older MB variant.


Any confirmation from reliable source or link? WP-13 will hardly offer ground breaking performance if really used on F-7BGI.


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## Michael Corleone

Beast said:


> Any confirmation from reliable source or link? WP-13 will hardly offer ground breaking performance if really used on F-7BGI.


WP-14 is also used on a new fighter that's based on f-7... which was offered to sudan. i am not really sure about the once that's in BGI and BGs


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## masud

may be it was posted befor................

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## masud



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## Nabil365

http://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/foreign-affairs/2017/06/25/russia-offers-mig35-india/
So Bangladesh buying mig-35?


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## Michael Corleone

Nabil365 said:


> http://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/foreign-affairs/2017/06/25/russia-offers-mig35-india/
> So Bangladesh buying mig-35?


Filled with misinformation. India was offered first and they rejected... Then bd and now to India again.

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## Zabaniyah

Nabil365 said:


> http://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/foreign-affairs/2017/06/25/russia-offers-mig35-india/
> So Bangladesh buying mig-35?





> It has highly advanced avionics and weapons systems, including the *NESA radar.*



RIP journalism.

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## BDforever

Loki said:


> RIP journalism.


don't be surprised 

vala ni bhai ? kita koren ?

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## Zabaniyah

BDforever said:


> don't be surprised
> 
> vala ni bhai ? kita koren ?



I valo asee. Just chilling. 

BTW, I'm not Sylheti

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## BDforever

Loki said:


> BTW, *I'm not Sylheti*


Me neither

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> don't be surprised
> 
> vala ni bhai ? kita koren ?





Loki said:


> I valo asee. Just chilling.
> 
> BTW, I'm not Sylheti





BDforever said:


> Me neither



আমরা সিলেটীদের খুচা দেওয়ার তীব্র নিন্দা জানাই। আপনাদের বিরুদ্ধে সরকার কোন ব্যবস্থা না নিলে ঈদের পরেই হরতাল (ঈদের পরেই কোন ঈদে হরতাল হবে সেটা জানিয়ে দিব)।

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## Nilgiri

Loki said:


> RIP journalism.



NESA = Nearly ESA

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## EastBengalPro

Lots of rumors in different FB BD DEFENCE pages regarding acquiring of J-10B.

- China may not sell J-10B

- BAF may procure JF-17

- BAF may procure both J-10B AND JF-17.


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## Nilgiri

Comillaboy said:


> Lots of rumors in different FB BD DEFENCE pages regarding acquiring of J-10B.
> 
> - China may not sell J-10B
> 
> - BAF may procure JF-17
> 
> - BAF may procure both J-10B AND JF-17.



 @madokafc remember the earlier thread...and now the meandering.

When you say wait and see to some people they cry so much here.

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## Michael Corleone

Calm tits fellas. Let's not discuss until final order has been placed.

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## EastBengalPro

Nilgiri said:


> @madokafc remember the earlier thread...and now the meandering.
> 
> When you say wait and see to some people they cry so much here.



While that thread had some sources mentioned, these rumors have been posted by some random facebookers. So its better to wait for some official announcement and dont forget to Congratulate us If we really make the J-10B deal

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## Bilal9

Nilgiri said:


> @madokafc remember the earlier thread...and now the meandering.
> 
> When you say wait and see to some people they cry so much here.



First get a few flimsy ultralights for your Tamil Nadu airforce (a la LTTE) then come boast .

Some folks have zero shame.

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## gslv mk3

Bilal9 said:


> First get a few flimsy ultralights for your Tamil Nadu airforce (a la LTTE) then come boast .



Tamil Nadu has IAF & INAA

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## Nilgiri

Bilal9 said:


> First get a few flimsy ultralights for your Tamil Nadu airforce (a la LTTE) then come boast .
> 
> Some folks have zero shame.



First build more than 500 cars a year from scratch to have something worth protecting with an airforce.

One assembly line in one factory in TN produces in a day more than your entire "country" does in a year.

Plus Tamil soldiers (in IA) were involved in your liberation too....so lick our boots you ingrate talking about shame.



Comillaboy said:


> dont forget to Congratulate us If we really make the J-10B deal



Sure I will. But what do we get to do if you dont make this "deal" and it turned out to be rumor mill as usual?

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## Nike

Nilgiri said:


> First build more than 500 cars a year from scratch to have something worth protecting with an airforce.
> 
> One assembly line in one factory in TN produces in a day more than your entire "country" does in a year.
> 
> Plus Tamil soldiers (in IA) were involved in your liberation too....so lick our boots you ingrate talking about shame.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I will. But what do we get to do if you dont make this "deal" and it turned out to be rumor mill as usual?



just grab a cup of popcorn then

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## Species

Nilgiri said:


> First build more than 500 cars a year from scratch to have something worth protecting with an airforce.
> 
> One assembly line in one factory in TN produces in a day more than your entire "country" does in a year.
> 
> Plus Tamil soldiers (in IA) were involved in your liberation too....so lick our boots you ingrate talking about shame.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I will. But what do we get to do if you dont make this "deal" and it turned out to be rumor mill as usual?



No, there were no Tamil soldiers in the war. Tamils are not even considered real Hindus by Indians, let alone martial.

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> No, there were no Tamil soldiers in the war. Tamils are not even considered real Hindus by Indians, let alone martial.



Is stupidity your trademark or something ? There is a whole regiment for us in the IA. And Bangladeshis should be the last one talking about 'martial races'.

http://madrasregiment.org/indopak1971.htm

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Is stupidity your trademark or something ? There is a whole regiment for us in the IA. And Bangladeshis should be the last one talking about 'martial races'.
> 
> http://madrasregiment.org/indopak1971.htm



The gaddar regiment of British India? LOL
Brits used to love dog and gaddars and they used to feed them in the same plate.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> The gaddar regiment of British India? LOL
> Brits used to love dog and gaddars and they used to feed them in the same plate.



And they loved to starve illiterate Bangladeshis to death. lovely.

We have one of the most decorated & oldest regiments & all you have is the history of getting slaughtered en masse & then crying about it 40 years later

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> And they loved to starve illiterate Bangladeshis to death. lovely.
> 
> We have one of the most decorated & oldest regiments & all you have is the history of getting slaughtered en masse & then crying about it 40 years later



Thats why we are a respectable nation not kicked around by Indians and Sinhalese. Everything has a price.

Look how kallu tamil soldiers are depicted in the 21st century bollywood movies. You people still feel honored being an Indian.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Thats why we are a respectable nation



We did see how the world respects you folks in 1971.



TopCat said:


> not kicked around by Indians



You aren't kicked around by the Indians ? we have your government by the balls.



TopCat said:


> Sinhalese



Interesting. Sinhalese then blame us Indians for every problem & insurgency they had.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> We did see how the world respects you folks in 1971.
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't kicked around by the Indians ? we have your government by the balls.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Sinhalese then blame us Indians for every problem & insurgency they had.







Evil means dark skinned in Indian dictionary.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Evil means dark skinned in Indian dictionary.



I wonder who is the evil here. If you have seen the movie that is. 
http://www.ask4tick.com/admin/news/bahubali-2-movie-shows-news.jpg


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> I wonder who is the evil here. If you have seen the movie that is.
> http://www.ask4tick.com/admin/news/bahubali-2-movie-shows-news.jpg




Thats the evil leader who is a migrant from north using south's monkeys like what Ram/ravan did.
Perfect example of Brits and Madras regiment.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Thats the evil leader who is a migrant from north using south's monkeys like what Ram/ravan did.



lol, you are an excellent example fo a logically challenged poster. try better.



TopCat said:


> Perfect example of Brits and Madras regiment.



An what is the analogy for mass murdered Bangladeshis ?

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> lol, you are an excellent example fo a logically challenged poster. try bet
> 
> An what is the analogy for mass murdered Bangladeshis ?



Actually the people with low self esteem and respect are the one logically challenged. I am amazed by the stupidity of south Indians.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Actually the people with low self esteem and respect are the one logically challenged



Apparently south Indians are well respected and are considered as intellectuals elsewhere. Bangladeshis, well less said the better.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Apparently south Indians are well respected and are considered as intellectuals elsewhere. Bangladeshis, well less said the better.


Ya right....

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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> Thats why we are a respectable nation not kicked around by Indians and Sinhalese. Everything has a price.
> 
> Look how kallu tamil soldiers are depicted in the 21st century bollywood movies. You people still feel honored being an Indian.



Both Bahubali movies don't have anything to do with reality of course. All the huge palaces depicted in those movies are completely fictional. Just a feel-good fable as far as I know.

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> Both Bahubali movies don't have anything to do with reality of course. All the huge palaces depicted in those movies are completely fictional. Just a feel-good fable as far as I know.


The point was not about the palaces but about the dark skinned people from south are considered evil even in 21st century bollywood. These tamilians should had some shame to identify themselves as Indians or Hindus. 
Bangladesh can extend some educational programme for the south Indians to how to raise their self respect. I am willing to donate 10 dollar for the cause.

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## gslv mk3

Bilal9 said:


> Both Bahubali movies don't have anything to do with reality of course. All the huge palaces depicted in those movies are completely fictional. Just a feel-good fable as far as I know.



As opposed to the guy travelling to the moon on a flying mule ? Tag me when your film industry can produce anything remotely comparable



TopCat said:


> The point was not about the palaces but about the dark skinned people from south are considered evil even in 21st century bollywood.



Stupidity is not a crime. It is a Telugu movie from south India with actors & crew from Andhra Pradesh, Telegana, Tamil Nadu & Kerala.



TopCat said:


> These tamilians should had some shame to identify themselves as Indians or Hindus.



As opposed to 'dark skinned fish & rice eating inferior Bengalis' ? (no I didn't say it, your former compatriots did)



TopCat said:


> Bangladesh can extend some educational programme for the south Indians to how to raise their self respect. I am willing to donate 10 dollar for the cause.



South India is among the most literate region of S. Asia & do not require hand outs from an illiterate nation. Why don't you folks pool your dollars to fund some technology development program so that Bangladesh can file at least 1 patent per year at USPTO ? (much in contrast with South India, an engineering & technology hub)


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Stupidity is not a crime. It is a Telugu movie from south India with actors & crew from Andhra Pradesh, Telegana, Tamil Nadu & Kerala.


It is well know that most south Indian hates their own skin. So majore characters were with lighter skin with heavy fair and lovely makeup and all the evils are with dark skinned with some tar on them to make them more evil. 
What you were called in Mohabharat? Rakshak? 




> As opposed to 'dark skinned fish & rice eating inferior Bengalis' ? (no I didn't say it, your former compatriots did)


We love our skin. Be it dark white or grey. Its called self respect.



> South India is among the most literate region of S. Asia & do not require hand outs from an illiterate nation. Why don't you folks pool your dollars to fund some technology development program so that Bangladesh can file at least 1 patent per year at USPTO ? (much in contrast with South India, an engineering & technology hub)



Bangladeshis can use latrine but you cant. You consider yourself literate. Ohh come on!!! LOL

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> It is well know that most south Indian hates their own skin. So majore characters were with lighter skin with heavy fair and lovely makeup and all the evils are with dark skinned with some tar on them to make them more evil.



LMAO they look like genuine brown skinned Indians as in the picture posted above. BTW south Indians aren't monoethnic like Bangladeshis.



TopCat said:


> Bangladeshis can use latrine but you cant. You consider yourself literate. Ohh come on!!! LOL



South India has far better sanitation conditions and human development than any Bangladeshi swamp.


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> LMAO they look like genuine brown skinned Indians as in the picture posted above. BTW south Indians aren't monoethnic like Bangladeshis.


Most of them look like upper caste migrated bhramin or mix from north India.The point is not who looks what but how you want to depict yourself. The film clearly showed that. I already posted the clip. If you had any respect to yourself you will leave this thread and never come back.



> South India has far better sanitation conditions and human development than any Bangladeshi swamp.


No they are not. You have 60% people poo in the sea beach or by the roadside.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Most of them look like upper caste migrated bhramin or mix from north India.The point is not who looks what but how you want to depict yourself. The film clearly showed that.



Haha, that's how most south Indians, particularly telugu people look. You got problem with that ? Maybe some insecurity with your skin ?



TopCat said:


> No they are not.



Says who, some one from a country a country which don't even have a proper statistics bureau ? 

South India has the highest HDI in the region (Barring Sri Lanka, but Kerala has still higher), now deal with it.


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Haha, that's how most south Indians, particularly telugu people look. You got problem with that ? Maybe some insecurity with your skin ?


YOu again dont have any shame. Dravid people returned by google unedited





> Says who, some one from a country a country which don't even have a proper statistics bureau ?
> 
> South India has the highest HDI in the region (Barring Sri Lanka, but Kerala has still higher), now deal with it.



You have 60% people pooe in open, posted by your own statistical department not Bangladesh. Now get lost.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> You have 60% people pooe in open, posted by your own statistical department not Bangladesh. Now get lost.



South India ? It isn't true for India either.



TopCat said:


> YOu again dont have any shame. Dravid people returned by google unedited



Who the hell is 'Dravid' ? Rahul Dravid ?

Google 'Telugu people'. Or don't bother, here is a famous Telugu lady


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## Flynn Swagmire

gslv mk3 said:


> Google 'Telugu people'. Or don't bother, here is a famous Telugu lady


Eww... Although no worries for her. She lives in India. The country got more men than women.

Oy, can somebody post some Bangladeshi dalit girls pic. I am on mobile with limited data.

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## gslv mk3

OrdinaryGenius said:


> Eww... Although no worries for her. She lives in India. The country got more men than women.



That's all you could come up with ? Beyond pathetic.


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## Michael Corleone

Shut up off topic wee cunt sluts. Pfffttt.....

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## Arthur

@waz @The Eagle please take care of the off topic. Thanks in advance.

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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Is stupidity your trademark or something ? There is a whole regiment for us in the IA.
> 
> http://madrasregiment.org/indopak1971.htm



There were no Tamils or troops from Mardras Regiment in East Pakistan. All they did was sitting in the Punjab front and batmaning for the troops from Sikh and Rajput regiments.

Anyway take a look at this cute Madrasi with a turban 








gslv mk3 said:


> And Bangladeshis should be the last one talking about 'martial races'.



Let's define martial race as 'people who have got their own independent nation-state and who are not victims of blatant racism in their own country due to being dark-skinned', okay?


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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> There were no Tamils or troops from Mardras Regiment in East Pakistan.



1.Lt Col J Kumar on the left is from Madras regiment 2. Officers can be from any ethnicity in any regiment in the IA.



Species said:


> There were no Tamils or troops from Mardras Regiment in East Pakistan.



Who the F are you to proclaim this? Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw ? Ever heard of Operation Cactus-Lilly



Species said:


> All they did was sitting in the Punjab front and batmaning for the troops from Sikh and Rajput regiments.



Google Battle of Basantar.



Species said:


> Let's define martial race as 'people who have got their own independent nation-state



After being literally saved from death by the Indians whom you spite. We are happy to be the most prosperous & developed region of a multi ethnic nation.



Species said:


> who are not victims of blatant racism in their own country due to being dark-skinned'



plain BS.


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## Michael Corleone

Ps. Martial race bullshit was started by the British to encourage the chamchas and backstabbers of people of india (pre independence)


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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> 1.Lt Col J Kumar on the left is from Madras regiment 2. Officers can be from any ethnicity in any regiment in the IA.
> 
> 
> 
> ever heard of Operation Cactus-Lilly
> 
> 
> 
> Google Battle of Basantar.
> 
> 
> 
> after being literally saved from death by the Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> plain BS.



Dude, tamils and all the south indians in IA are only for batmaning, in fact there were none of them in East Pakistan.

Pride of the Sikhs, Rajputs and North Indians is understandable but it's rather funny to see South Indians taking pride over the 1971 war. Even funnier when South Indians show their online bravado in defence forums.

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> in fact there were none of them in East Pakistan.



Meh..

_Under Operation Cactus Lily, which began on December 3, 1971, the task assigned to the brigade was to capture Chachro and Khinsar in Barmer sector. The task was successfully completed under the leadership of Brig Gurjit Singh Randhawa, who was the commander heading 330 brigade in 1971. The brigade, which fought against the 55 Infantry Brigade of Pakistan, captured key posts like Chachro and Khinsar, spread over 2400 sq km; the battalions went upto 70 kms deep into Pakistan. The battalions which took part in the operation under 330 Infantry Brigade were – *9 Madras*, 2 Grenadiers, 20 Rajput, 2 Rajputana Rifles and 48 Field Regiment. In Operation Cactus Lily, five soldiers lost their lives and 17 were wounded. While 2 Grenadiers was awarded with one Shaurya Chakra, one VSM (Vishisht Sena Medal) and one SM (Sena Medal), 2 Rajputana Rifles was given three SMs and four Mention-In-Dispatches.
_
Also, do tell me how operations are possible in your swampland, without the help of well renowned MEG aka Madras Sappers








Species said:


> Dude, tamils and all the south indians in IA are only for batmaning



All this battle honours for batmanning...and this is just about '71.











And here is another good account of battle of Basantar..

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spotlights/war-in-the-west-1971-pakistans-day-of-reckoning/2/



Species said:


> but it's rather funny to see South Indians taking pride over the 1971 war. Even funnier when South Indians show their online bravado in defence forums.



Also some history....

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/open-page/the-might-of-the-thambis/article7626363.ece

_The history of 9 Madras is as fascinating as its exploits in the battlefield for over three centuries. Raised in 1704 as the Nair Pattaalam — later Nair Brigade — by the sovereign of Venad (later Travancore), it is the oldest unit in the Indian Army.* The Nair Brigade under King Marthanda Varma trounced the invading Dutch forces in a decisive battle on August 10, 1741 at Colachel, putting an end to their imperialistic dreams in India*; *it was the first-ever victory achieved by an Indian native force over the Europeans*. A number of Dutch officers were taken prisoner, among them Eustace Benedict de Lannoy, who was later to train the Travancore Army on modern European lines._

_*This army defeated Tipu Sultan’s forces in the Battle of Nedumkotta in December 1789, a battle which stemmed the Mysorean onslaught on Travancore.* It left Tipu permanently lame.
_
^Nothing unexpected from the land of 'Kalaripayattu', probably the world's oldest martial art.


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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Meh..
> 
> _Under Operation Cactus Lily, which began on December 3, 1971, the task assigned to the brigade was to capture Chachro and Khinsar in Barmer sector. The task was successfully completed under the leadership of Brig Gurjit Singh Randhawa, who was the commander heading 330 brigade in 1971. The brigade, which fought against the 55 Infantry Brigade of Pakistan, captured key posts like Chachro and Khinsar, spread over 2400 sq km; the battalions went upto 70 kms deep into Pakistan. The battalions which took part in the operation under 330 Infantry Brigade were – *9 Madras*, 2 Grenadiers, 20 Rajput, 2 Rajputana Rifles and 48 Field Regiment. In Operation Cactus Lily, five soldiers lost their lives and 17 were wounded. While 2 Grenadiers was awarded with one Shaurya Chakra, one VSM (Vishisht Sena Medal) and one SM (Sena Medal), 2 Rajputana Rifles was given three SMs and four Mention-In-Dispatches._
> 
> 
> 
> All this battle honours for batmanning...and this is just about '71.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is another good account of battle of Basantar..
> 
> http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spotlights/war-in-the-west-1971-pakistans-day-of-reckoning/2/
> 
> 
> 
> Also some history....
> 
> http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/open-page/the-might-of-the-thambis/article7626363.ece



Google Chachro and Khinsar and tell me where they are.

Batmans also have their own role in battlefield, they also deserve gallantry awards, no denying in that!


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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> Batmans also have their own role in battlefield, they also deserve gallantry awards, no denying in that!



Keep whining here, like how you did in 1971.

_From 1941 onwards, the regiment had done well to bag the battle hours at Mount Popa, Tamu Road, Ukhrul, Ava, Kama, Titwal, Poonch, Kalidhar, Maharajke, Basantar and Siramani. There have been quite a handful of theatre honours too: Burma (1942- 45), Jammu and Kashmir (1947-48 and 1965), *Punjab (1965 and 1971), Sindh (1971) and East Pakistan (1971).*_

_The Indian Army’s moment of glory was deservedly shared by the Madras Regiment and the MEG, who both played their roles to the hilt in the operations. Three battalions of the Madras Regiment, 4, 8, and 26, took the field, all of them with formations which moved in from the West Bengal border. 

For the operations in the Eastern Theatre during 1971, the Madras Regiment won the Battle Honour, SIRAMANI and the Theatre Honour, EAST PAKISTAN 1971._

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spotlights/the-bangladesh-war-1971-indian-armys-finest-hour/


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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Keep whining here, like how you did in 1971.
> 
> _From 1941 onwards, the regiment had done well to bag the battle hours at Mount Popa, Tamu Road, Ukhrul, Ava, Kama, Titwal, Poonch, Kalidhar, Maharajke, Basantar and Siramani. There have been quite a handful of theatre honours too: Burma (1942- 45), Jammu and Kashmir (1947-48 and 1965), *Punjab (1965 and 1971), Sindh (1971) and East Pakistan (1971).*_



I don't know what you trying to prove with these random texts. I asked you to google Chachro and Khinsar which happen to be in Rajasthan and Sindh border while you claimed to be in the East Pakistan theatre. So there goes your logic of Madras Regiment fighting in East Pakistan. 

There must not be any shame in batmaning, as I said, they also play significant role in an Army's victory.

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> I asked you to google Chachro and Khinsar which happen to be in Rajasthan and Sindh border while you claimed to be in the East Pakistan theatre. So there goes your logic of Madras Regiment fighting in East Pakistan.



You have literally zero proof for proving that Madras Regiment or MEG hasn't fought in the east pakistan sector.



Species said:


> There must not be any shame in batmaning, as I said, they also play significant role in an Army's victory.



It's funny to watch losers, who have the distinction of getting slaughtered in millions criticizing one of the oldest & the most battle honored regiment of the Indian army.


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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> You have literally zero proof for proving that Madras Regiment or MEG hasn't fought in the east pakistan sector.



Okay, how do you prove something negative?  

The onus is on you to prove whether they were in East Pakistan or not, which you have failed to do.



gslv mk3 said:


> t's funny that losers who have the distinction of getting slaughtered in millions critisizing one of the oldesr & the most battle honored regiment in the Indian army.



And Russians have lost millions in the two World Wars, your logic being..?

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> Okay, how do you prove something negative?
> 
> The onus is on you to prove whether they were in East Pakistan or not, which you have failed to do.



Yep, a regiment would be awarded theater honours without actually being present at the theater. Anyway...

From the book 'Madras, Chennai: A 400-year Record of the First City of Modern India, Volume 1', not complete though.












Species said:


> And Russians have lost millions in the two World Wars, your logic being..?



The two world wars weren't a one sided genocide of millions. 

BTW, I would love to know about the battle honours of BD army.


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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Yep, a regiment would be awarded theater honours without actually being present at the theater. Anyway...
> 
> From the book 'Madras, Chennai: A 400-year Record of the First City of Modern India, Volume 1', not complete though.



I already said I'm respectful to the South Indian batmans who won the gallantry awards in 1971, I don't know what more you expect. 



gslv mk3 said:


> BTW, I would love to know about the battle honours of BD army.



Sure,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_awards_and_decorations_of_Bangladesh#Wartime_gallantry_awards


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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> Sure,
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_awards_and_decorations_of_Bangladesh#Wartime_gallantry_awards



_A battle honour is an award of a right by a government or sovereign to a military unit to emblazon the name of a battle or operation on its flags ("colours"), uniforms or other accessories where ornamentation is possible._

_In European military tradition, military units may be acknowledged for their achievements in specific wars or operations of a military campaign. *In Great Britain and those countries of the Commonwealth which share a common military legacy with the British, battle honours are awarded to selected military units as official acknowledgement for their achievements in specific wars or operations of a military campaign.*_



Species said:


> I already said I'm respectful to the South Indian batmans who won the gallantry awards in 1971



You are pathetic.


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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> _A *battle honour* is an award of a right by a government or sovereign to a military unit to emblazon the name of a battle or operation on its flags ("colours"), uniforms or other accessories where ornamentation is possible._
> 
> _In European military tradition, military units may be acknowledged for their achievements in specific wars or operations of a military campaign. *In Great Britain and those countries of the Commonwealth which share a common military legacy with the British, battle honours are awarded to selected military units as official acknowledgement for their achievements in specific wars or operations of a military campaign.*_
> 
> 
> 
> You are pathetic.



Serving the combatants, as the batmans do, is indeed an achievement.


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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> Serving the combatants, as the batmans do, is indeed an achievement.



getting slaughtered en masse is the greatest achievement, you faggot.

I admit that's where we wronged- Pakistanis knew how to handle these thankless scums.


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## Michael Corleone

RIP AIRFORCE THREAD. PLEASE TAKE YOUR FIGHTS TO CHILL BD THREAD.


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## Avicenna

This stuff is WAY off topic. Please let's get back to BAF....


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## Flynn Swagmire

gslv mk3 said:


> That's all you could come up with ? Beyond pathetic.


with Indians? yes...

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## Nilgiri

Species said:


> No, there were no Tamil soldiers in the war. Tamils are not even considered real Hindus by Indians, let alone martial.



Heh thats funny because I have Tamil elder relatives who were there...obviously you know nothing about the operations involved.

You can't even speak for your own country quite obviously, so don't speak for ours.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

meanwhile..... whats the air traffic like over West Bengal?.....
the usual thing, or anything new?

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## Species

Nilgiri said:


> Heh thats funny because I have Tamil elder relatives who were there...obviously you know nothing about the operations involved.
> 
> You can't even speak for your own country quite obviously, so don't speak for ours.



I've elder relatives who have landed on the moon.

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## Bilal9

Species said:


> I've elder relatives who have landed on the moon.




OK guys game over because our resident trolls have finished doing their business out in the open and have returned to the Sanghi Internet dhaba they infest.

Sanghis please take the OT topics somewhere else......



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> meanwhile..... whats the air traffic like over West Bengal?.....
> the usual thing, or anything new?





This is what happens when you commit kanjoosi over infrastructure.....

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> OK guys game over because our resident trolls have finished doing their business out in the open and have returned to the Sanghi Internet dhaba they infest.
> 
> Sanghis please take the OT topics somewhere else......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you commit kanjoosi over infrastructure.....



lets discuss something about the air..... do we? 

how about the new Sukhois are heard to be going to the south to fly over the BoB.....
what about protecting the skies in the middle?

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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> lets discuss something about the air..... do we?
> 
> how about the new Sukhois are heard to be going to the south to fly over the BoB.....
> what about protecting the skies in the middle?



Well protecting the skies has to be a coordinated job, we have to have not only shore-based long-range marine radar but that coordinated with shipborne sensors and satellite feeds, with help from the Chinese. All this has to feed into a coordinated combat mgmt. System to track and engage assets like the SU-35SM (FLANKER Es) to counter enemy threats.

Talking about the SU-35SM (FLANKER Es), there was an article in AusAirPower comparing it to the new Super Hornets Australia was getting. The difference was quite Stark and revealing at the same time. This might shed some light on the capabilities of the SU-35SM that we are getting and that which Vietnam and Indonesia are also getting. A bit dated but very detailed nonetheless.... we should look at BVR missile payload & range for our ' Falklands scenario' and consider how it will play out.

F/A-18E/F Super Hornet vs. Sukhoi Flanker

*Dr Carlo Kopp, MIEEE, MAIAA, PEng*
Originally published Defence Today Vol.6 No.1
April/May 2007
Updated May, 2007.
© 2006, 2007 Carlo Kopp

*




*

Recent reports that the F/A-18F Super Hornet has been arbitrarily chosen as an interim fighter for the RAAF have raised considerable interest in the capabilities of this evolved third generation fighter, relative to the Russian Flanker. This analysis will test the Super Hornet against its most likely opponent in the region, the Sukhoi Flanker. 
*
The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet* 

The Super Hornet is the follow-on to the 'Classic' Hornet, and is at this time flown only by the US Navy. It was blooded during Operation Southern Watch and used during the invasion of Iraq, primarily flown in battlefield interdiction and close air support roles, where it has proven more effective than the 'Classic' Hornet. The Super Hornet is what the 'Classic' Hornet was initially intended to be, when the VFAX program which led to the F/A-18A/B was launched during the early 1970s. The aim was a multirole fighter to replace the A-4 Skyhawk, A-7 Corsair II and the F-4 Phantom. Bureaucratic 'optimisation' resulted in the 'Classic' Hornet, rather than the F-15A sized VFAX as intended. The origins of the Super Hornet are in the period following the end of the Cold War, when collapsing budgets saw the US Navy role away from blue water sea control operations, to littoral 'gunboat diplomacy' in global trouble spots. Since 911 this has been the dominant role of the US Navy. With catastrophically declining funding the US Navy could not buy more F-14Ds, and needed something larger than the 'Classic' Hornet, which proved too small to be effective and demanding of aerial refuelling support. The intended replacement for the F-14, the Navy Advanced Tactical Fighter, a 'swing wing' F-22 derivative, was too expensive for the downsized US Navy budget. The retirement of the A-6 Intruder and KA-6D tanker during this period further exacerbated the US Navy's woes. Legislation mandated a full flyoff competition for a new fighter, and the Navy thus manoeuvred around this by seeking a redesign of the existing 'Classic' Hornet . 

The Super Hornet is substantially a new aircraft, which shares only limited structural commonality with the F/A-18A-D family of fighters. While the F/A-18E/F forward fuselage is derived from the F/A-18C design, the wing, centre and aft fuselage, tail surfaces and powerplants are entirely new. The baseline avionic system is however largely derived from the F/A-18C, with planned growth through further evolved derivatives of the radar, EW and core avionic systems, and entirely new systems where appropriate. 

The designation F/A-18E/F reflects the fact that the aircraft is derived from the F/A-18A-D, even if it is a significantly larger airframe design - the program was implemented as an Engineering Change Proposal (ECP) to avoid a costly demonstration program and fly-off. A side effect of this idiosyncrasy in nomenclature is that the F/A-18E/F is frequently dismissed as just another Hornet, yet the aircraft is very different in many respects. 

From a design perspective, the most notable change in the Super Hornet is its size, designed around an internal fuel (JP5) capacity of 14,700 lb, or 36% more than the F/A-18C/E. This most closely compares to the clean F-15C, which has around 10% less internal fuel than the Super Hornet. 

Sizing around a 36% greater internal fuel load than the F/A-18C, with the aim of retaining the established agility performance of the F/A-18C, resulted in a larger wing of 500 sqft area, against the 400 sqft area of the F/A-18C, a 25% increase. The consequent sizing changes result in a 30,885 lb empty weight (31,500 lb basic weight) aircraft, a 30% increase against the F/A-18C. Not surprisingly, the aircraft's empty weight is 8% greater than the F-15C, reflecting the structural realities of catapult launches and tailhook recoveries. 

The larger F414 engine, a refanned and evolved F404 derivative, delivers 20,700 lb static SL thrust in afterburner, which is around 8% less than the F100-PW-220 in the F-15C. 

The simplest metric of the F/A-18E/F is that it is an F-15A-D sized F/A-18C derivative, optimised for the naval environment. 

Size is where the similarity between the Super Hornet and Eagle end, since the Super Hornet is optimised aerodynamically around the F/A-18A-D configuration, with a focus on transonic manoeuvre and load carrying performance, and carrier recovery characteristics. In terms of raw performance, the Super Hornet is very similar to the F/A-18C, but provides significantly better CAP endurance and operating radius by virtue of its larger wing and internal fuel load. 

With three 480 USG drop tanks, full internal fuel, combat and reserve fuel allowances, 8 x AIM-120 AMRAAMs and 2 x AIM-9 Sidewinders, the aircraft has a point intercept radius cited in excess of 650 NMI, with some assumptions made about expended missiles. This is radius performance in the class of the clean F-15C. 
Like the F/A-18A-D, the F/A-18E/F was designed from the outset for a dual role fighter bomber mission environment. The enlarged wings have three hardpoints each, typically loaded with a pair of 480 USG tanks inboard and weapons on the pair of outboard stations. The wingtip Sidewinder rail is retained. 

A notable aerodynamic feature is a significantly enlarged strake design over the baseline Hornet, intended to improve vortex lifting characteristics in high AoA manoeuvre, and reduce the static stability margin to enhance pitching characteristics - Boeing cite pitch rates in excess of 40 degrees per second. 

Structurally the Super Hornet is built largely from aluminium alloys, with extensive use of carbon fibre composite skins in the wings, and titanium in several critical areas. The design load factor limit of 7.5G is identical to the F/A-18A-D, at an unspecified gross weight. 

Until recently, Super Hornets were delivered with the Raytheon APG-73 radar, not unlike the F/A-18A/B HUG radar. Most recent deliveries see the new APG-79 Active Electronically Steered Array (AESA) radar fitted. The APG-79 is considered to have slightly better range performance than the Joint strike Fighter's APG-81 AESA, but inferior to the F-22A's larger APG-77. 

The Super Hornet is fitted with a new AN/ALQ-124 Integrated Defensive Countermeasures system (IDECM) EWSP system, including the ALE-50 towed decoy, more capable than the legacy package in US or RAAF 'Classic' Hornets. There is thus little commonality between the Super Hornet and 'Classic' Hornet variants.






Notes: O/B - seeker off-boresight acquisition angle; IRH - heatseeking, single or dual colour scanning seeker; SARH - semi-active radar homing seeker; DL - datalink for midcourse guidance corrections - either analogue or digital; IMU - inertial package for midcourse guidance; Passive RF - passive radio frequency anti-radiation seeker; ARH - active radar homing seeker; Acquisition Range is that at which the seeker can acquire its target; Kinematic Range is A-pole or F-pole; Target G - max load factor of target vehicle; Launch G - max load factor of launch aircraft; APU - Aviatsionnaya Puskovaya Ustanovka (rail launcher); AKU - Aviatsionnaya Katapultnaya Ustanovka (ejector); This is a current open source compilation based on manufacturers' and third party data therefore figures should be treated with appropriate caution (Author).







*Air Combat in the Current Era* 

To make a comparison between the Super Hornet and Flanker, it is necessary to explore the kind of air combat we will see in the region over coming years. Aerial combat between fighters has seen considerable evolution since the 1940s, driven in part by weapons technology, in part by sensor technology and in part by airframe aerodynamic performance. The last two decades have seen two important trends. 

The first is the ascendancy of Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat, as advances in sensors have permitted long range missile engagements with increasing confidence that the target is indeed a hostile. 

The second trend has been the proliferation of extremely agile heatseeking missiles for close combat, and associated Helmet Mounted Displays or Sights. The effectiveness and lethality of fourth generation heatseeking missiles makes close combat with a situationally aware opponent a high risk game. Missiles such as the AIM-9X, ASRAAM, Python 4 and 5, Iris T, R-73 and R-74 give no quarter, and with exceptional G capability, often aided by Thrust Vector Control (TVC), these missiles are almost impossible to defeat by manoeuvre. Increasingly such missiles are acquiring Focal Plane Array imaging seekers, supplanting the scanning seekers dominant for decades, making them virtually immune to flares and jammers developed to defeat scanning seekers.

Whoever takes the first shot in a close in engagement most likely wins. Does this preclude close combat in the future? Only in the minds of those observers who imagine that all future aerial conflict will be highly assymetric, not unlike the Desert Storm, Allied Force and Iraqi Freedom air campaigns. 

Reality is somewhat different. In global terms, most modern fighter aircraft are today being purchased by nations in the Pacific-Rim and South Asian regions. These nations are mostly building modern force structures for their air forces, including Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft, tanker aircraft, passive electronic surveillance and intelligence aircraft (Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance – ISR), and most likely in coming years, stand off support jamming aircraft. Datalinking and networking is increasing available. The United States, or US aligned nations will thus confront an environment which is at best asymmetric in the quality of specific force structure components, but not asymmetric in force structure, like the air campaigns of the 1990s. 

The dominance of BVR combat is contingent on having what amounts to 'information superiority', or what is an asymmetric advantage in 'big picture' situational awareness. Once both sides operate AEW&C, passive ISR, networks and high power support jammers, the 'fog of war' yet again re-emerges, as sensors are degraded or blinded, networks and datalinks degrade or drop out, and a clear picture of the battlespace is again difficult to acquire. 

In this sense, the uncontested dominance of BVR combat will only last as long as it takes for the key force multipliers to become more widely available to non US-aligned air forces. The proliferation of 100 to 200 nautical mile range “counter-ISR” missiles like the Russian R-172, R-37 and Kh-31 variants add yet another variable to this mix. This is the future air combat environment, where information is the new high ground, and being where one is not expected to be is increasingly valuable. 

In comparing the Super Hornet and the Flanker, we must be mindful of the environment they will operate in. The notion that these two types will be flown against each other in the asymmetric world of the 1990s is at best naïve, at worst foolish. 






The Su-30MKI and Su-35 use the thrust vectoring AL-31FU powerplant (Irkut)
*
Sukhoi Flanker vs the Super Hornet* 

In assessing the Flanker against the Super Hornet it is clear from the outset that the advantage in firepower, speed, raw agility, range and manoeuvre performance goes to the Flanker. Given that operational Flankers span variants from B through H, and type designations from Su-27S, through Su-30s to Su-35s, there are a wide range of configurations possible. 

This has been further complicated by the Russian propensity to customise configurations for clients, and perform ongoing technology upgrades to operational variants. Another byproduct of Russian marketing is that the label Su-30 spans an upgraded Su-27SKM (Su-30KI) up to the Indian Su-30MKI, which uses extensive ly features demonstrated in the Su-37. 

In terms of aerodynamic performance the Flanker sits broadly in the class of the F-15 family, with similar thrust / weight ratios at similar weights. The empty weight of Flanker variants ranges between 37,240 - 40,800 lb and internal fuel capacities between 20,750 - 22,600 lb. 

At this time all production Flankers are flying with variants of the Saturn/Salyut Al-31F, which deliver static sea level thrust ratings in the 27 klb to 32 klb class, depending on the variant. This engine is comparable to the latest P&W F100 and GE F110 series engines, outperforming the smaller F404 series. In terms of supersonic speed, supersonic and subsonic acceleration and climb performance, the Super Hornet cannot compete with any Flanker variant. 

High speed turning performance, where thrust limited, also goes to the Flanker, as does supersonic manoeuvre performance. The Super Hornet is severely handicapped by its lower combat thrust/weight ratio, and hybrid wing planform. It is worth observing that high alpha trim drag and pitch rates of the canard equipped Flanker variants, such as the Su-33 and Su-30MKI, will be superior to the versions without canards.






Where the Super Hornet is apt to be more competitive against the Flanker is in the near stall low speed high alpha flight regimes, where the Super Hornet's strakes and wing work well and advanced flight controls perform superbly. This is however not a regime favoured by combat pilots and thus not of significance in an assessment of combat potential. 

The big gain in coming years for the Flanker in relative performance come with the new Al-41F engine, Russia's F119, now in Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP). The Al-41F delivers up to 40 klb class sea level static thrust, and high altitude dry thrust ratings to power the defunct supercruising MFI (Multi-Role Fighter). 







Al-41FU supercruise powerplant.








The Russians have been flying derated 33 klb Al-41Fs in a Su-27S since 2004. _With Al-41F engines installed the Flanker's robust margin in kinematic performance against the Super Hornet grows considerably in all regimes of flight – it provides the Flanker with 'F-22-like' raw agility and performance. _With wing sweep, planform, forebody shaping and inlets built for Mach 2+ dash, a clean Flanker with Al-41Fs should supercruise effectively. A supercruising Flanker with TVC nozzles, ie AL-41FU, can use downward TVC to offset supersonic trim drag and thus achieve lower fuel burn in this regime. 

However, its supersonic energy bleed performance may not measure up to the refined design of the newer supercruise optimised designs, such as the F-22 or MFI. The bigger issue for the Flanker in supercruise is the drag of external stores, which will compromise it decisively against an optimsied design in supersonic combat. 

The fix for this limitation is a centreline tunnel conformal weapons pod for the R-74 and R-77 family AAMs. If and when reports of such a design emerge, we can be certain that Sukhoi are planning to play the supercruise game in earnest. 

In terms of combat radius performance the Flanker outperforms the Super Hornet, even with the latter carrying external tanks. There is no substitute for clean internal fuel. The Flanker's radar aperture is twice the size of the Hornet family apertures, due to the larger nose cross section.






The APG-79 provides comparable range performance to the JSF APG-81, making it inferior to the F-22A's APG-77, but better than in service Flanker radars.






The most capable radar in an operational Flanker is the NIIP N-011M BARS, a hybrid passive ESA design using a backplane feed and a range of transmitter tubes with varying peak power ratings. The hybird design provides equally good receiver sensitivity to Western AESA designs (Irkut). 






The space feed passive array presents an opportunity for Flanker users to gain AESA like power and agility using legacy transmitter technology (Author)

In terms of radar capabilities, existing Flankers are equipped mostly with variants of N-001, comparable to early F-15 APG-63s. The Su-35 carries the N-011, closer to a late model APG-63/70, and the Su-30MKI the NIIP N-011M BARS which is a hybrid phased array closest in technology to the much smaller RBE2 in the Rafale. The BARS can be supplied with a range of Travelling Wave Tube (TWT) power ratings, but cannot compete with the Super Hornet's liquid cooled APG-79 AESA. 

The new Pero N-001 antenna upgrade package, using a space feed reflective passive phased array, is apt to have much better peak power handling potential to the BARS, in a much cheaper design, but is yet to enter production. The PLA is reported to have been evaluating one fo two prototypes. A major concern is that a low loss waveguide feed suitable for very high peak and average power levels is easily integrated in a space feed arrangement of this type, and thus a peak power rating exceeding that of the APG-79 is not that difficult to effect, TWT performance permitting. Cooling is not an issue in an airframe the size of the Flanker. 

NIIP and Phazotron are known to have been working on an AESA design, and given the aperture size of the Flanker, an AESA radar in the power-aperture rating class of the F-22's APG-77 is a distinct possibility for a post 2010 Flanker. The only issue for the Russian radar houses will be the availability of Gallium Arsenide HEMT (High Electron Mobility Transistor) transistors for the radar modules. Compared to the Super Hornet's APG-79, a Flanker sized AESA even with inferior radar module performance can match the power-aperture rating and thus range of the APG-79. 



May/June 2007 Update Block - Irbis E Hybrid Phased Array


The baseline N011M radar uses a vertically polarised 0.9 metre diameter aperture hybrid phased array, with individual per element receive path low noise amplifiers delivering a noise figure cited at 3 dB, similar to an AESA. Three receiver channels are used, one presumably for sidelobe blanking and ECCM. The EGSP-6A transmitter uses a single Chelnok Travelling Wave Tube, available in variants with peak power ratings between 4 and 7 kiloWatts, and CW illumination at 1 kW. Cited detection range for a closing target (High PRF) is up to 76 NMI, for a receding target up to 50 NMI. The phased array can electronically steer the mainlobe through +/-70 degrees in azimuth and +/-40 degrees in elevation. The whole array can be further steered mechanically. Polarisation can be switched by 90 degrees for surface search modes.






NIIP Irbis E Prototypes (above, below)










NIIP Irbis E Components (above)

The follow on to the BARS is the new Irbis-E (Snow Leopard) hybrid phased array, in development since 2004 and planned for the Su-35 block upgrade, and as a block upgrade or new build radar for other Flanker variants. The Irbis-E is an evolution of the BARS design, but significantly more powerful. While the hybrid phased array antenna is retained, the noise figure is slightly worse at 3.5 dB, but the receiver has four rather than three discrete channels. The biggest change is in the EGSP-27 transmitter, where the single 7 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok TWT is replaced with a pair of 10 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok tubes, ganged to provide a total peak power rating of 20 kiloWatts. The radar is cited at an average power rating of 5 kiloWatts, with 2 kiloWatts CW rating for illumination. NIIP claim twice the bandwidth and improved frequency agility over the BARS, and better ECCM capability. The Irbis-E has new Solo-35.01 digital signal processor hardware and Solo-35.02 data processor, but retains receiver hardware, the master oscillator and exciter of the BARS. A prototype has been in flight test since late 2005.

The performance increase in the Irbis-E is commensurate with the increased transmitter rating, and NIIP claim a detection range for a closing 3 square metre coaltitude target of 190 - 215 NMI (350-400 km), and the ability to detect a closing 0.01 square metre target at ~50 NMI (90 km). In Track While Scan (TWS) mode the radar can handle 30 targets simultaneously, and provide guidance for two simultaneous shots using a semi-active missile like the R-27 series, or eight simultaneous shots using an active missile like the RVV-AE/R-77 or ramjet RVV-AE-PD/R-77M. The Irbis-E was clearly designed to support the ramjet RVV-AE-PD/R-77M missile in BVR combat against reduced signature Western fighters like the Block II Super Hornet or Eurofighter Typhoon. Curiously, NIIP do not claim superiority over the F-22A's APG-77 AESA, yet their cited performance figures exceed the public (and no doubt heavily sanitised) range figures for the APG-77.


The existing N011M series lacks a Low Probability of Intercept capability, in part due to antenna bandwidth limits and in part due to processor limitations. This is likely to change over the coming decade, with the Irbis-E, as customers demand an ability to defeat or degrade Western ESM equipment and the technology to do this becomes more accessible. 


The N012 tail warning radar has been reported to be part of the Su-30MKI suite and is offered as a retrofit to other models.









The IDECM EWSP suite on the Super Hornet is more advanced than the EWSP suites on older Flanker variants. Defensive systems include a Radar Warning Receiver, mostly variants of the SPO-32 / L150 Pastel digital receiver carried. Newer Flankers however carry the podded wingtip mounted KNIRTI SPS-171 / L005S Sorbtsiya-S mid/high band defensive jammer, this system being an evolution of a jammer developed for the Backfire C. The Sorbtsiya-S, unlike most Western jamming pods, is designed to operate in pairs and uses forward and aft looking steerable wideband phased arrays to maximise jamming effect. It is worth observing that the Sorbtsiya is clearly built to provide cross-eye jamming modes against monopulse threats, and the wideband mainlobe steering capability provided by the phased array permits best possible utilisation of available jamming power. A graded dielectric lens is employed. Russian contractors have been using Digital RF Memory (DRFM) technology, which is of the same generation as Super Hornet EWSP. The Super Hornet does not have any compelling advantage in EWSP capability. 

Computing capability in operational Flankers is mostly provided by legacy Russian hardware, but with some COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) processors now appearing in radar upgrades and missile seekers. While this is an area where the Sukhois are barely competitive against the current Super Hornet, it is the easiest of all of the performance gaps for the Russians to close. 

In summary, the Flanker outperforms the Super Hornet decisively in aerodynamic performance. What advantage the Super Hornet now has in the APG-79 radar will vanish in coming years as Russian AESAs emerge. The one area in which the Flanker currently trails the Super Hornet is in radar signature (stealth) performance. The Super Hornet has inlet geometry shaping, inlet tunnel S-bends, and an AESA shroud all of which reduce its forward sector signature well below that of the Flanker. 

In the short term, this is an advantage the Super Hornet retains, with the caveat that external stores put hard limits on signature improvement for the Super Hornet. However, Russian researchers have done some excellent work over the last decade in absorbent materials and laminate techniques for radar signature reduction, which offer the potential for the Flanker to achieve similar signature reduction to the F/A-18E/F. If funded, a reduced signature Flanker is feasible in the next half decade. 

In conclusion, the Flanker in all current variants kinematically outclasses the Super Hornet in all high performance flight regimes. The only near term advantage the latest Super Hornets have over legacy Flanker variants is in the APG-79 AESA and radar signature reduction features, an advantage which will not last long given highly active ongoing Russian development effort in these areas. The supercruising Al-41F engine will further widen the performance gap in favour of the Flanker. What this means is that post 2010 the Super Hornet is uncompetitive against advanced Flankers in BVR combat, as it is now uncompetitive in close combat.







KnAAPO/Sukhoi Su-27SKM Multirole Flanker Prototype. Further images.
http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-SuperBug-vs-Flanker.html

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> Well protecting the skies has to be a coordinated job, we have to have not only shore-based long-range marine radar but that coordinated with shipborne sensors and satellite feeds, with help from the Chinese. All this has to feed into a coordinated combat mgmt. System to track and engage assets like the SU-35SM (FLANKER Es) to counter enemy threats.
> 
> Talking about the SU-35SM (FLANKER Es), there was an article in AusAirPower comparing it to the new Super Hornets Australia was getting. The difference was quite Stark and revealing at the same time. This might shed some light on the capabilities of the SU-35SM that we are getting and that which Vietnam and Indonesia are also getting. A bit dated but very detailed nonetheless.... we should look at BVR missile payload & range for our ' Falklands scenario' and consider how it will play out.
> 
> F/A-18E/F Super Hornet vs. Sukhoi Flanker
> 
> *Dr Carlo Kopp, MIEEE, MAIAA, PEng*
> Originally published Defence Today Vol.6 No.1
> April/May 2007
> Updated May, 2007.
> © 2006, 2007 Carlo Kopp
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Recent reports that the F/A-18F Super Hornet has been arbitrarily chosen as an interim fighter for the RAAF have raised considerable interest in the capabilities of this evolved third generation fighter, relative to the Russian Flanker. This analysis will test the Super Hornet against its most likely opponent in the region, the Sukhoi Flanker.
> *
> The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet*
> 
> The Super Hornet is the follow-on to the 'Classic' Hornet, and is at this time flown only by the US Navy. It was blooded during Operation Southern Watch and used during the invasion of Iraq, primarily flown in battlefield interdiction and close air support roles, where it has proven more effective than the 'Classic' Hornet. The Super Hornet is what the 'Classic' Hornet was initially intended to be, when the VFAX program which led to the F/A-18A/B was launched during the early 1970s. The aim was a multirole fighter to replace the A-4 Skyhawk, A-7 Corsair II and the F-4 Phantom. Bureaucratic 'optimisation' resulted in the 'Classic' Hornet, rather than the F-15A sized VFAX as intended. The origins of the Super Hornet are in the period following the end of the Cold War, when collapsing budgets saw the US Navy role away from blue water sea control operations, to littoral 'gunboat diplomacy' in global trouble spots. Since 911 this has been the dominant role of the US Navy. With catastrophically declining funding the US Navy could not buy more F-14Ds, and needed something larger than the 'Classic' Hornet, which proved too small to be effective and demanding of aerial refuelling support. The intended replacement for the F-14, the Navy Advanced Tactical Fighter, a 'swing wing' F-22 derivative, was too expensive for the downsized US Navy budget. The retirement of the A-6 Intruder and KA-6D tanker during this period further exacerbated the US Navy's woes. Legislation mandated a full flyoff competition for a new fighter, and the Navy thus manoeuvred around this by seeking a redesign of the existing 'Classic' Hornet .
> 
> The Super Hornet is substantially a new aircraft, which shares only limited structural commonality with the F/A-18A-D family of fighters. While the F/A-18E/F forward fuselage is derived from the F/A-18C design, the wing, centre and aft fuselage, tail surfaces and powerplants are entirely new. The baseline avionic system is however largely derived from the F/A-18C, with planned growth through further evolved derivatives of the radar, EW and core avionic systems, and entirely new systems where appropriate.
> 
> The designation F/A-18E/F reflects the fact that the aircraft is derived from the F/A-18A-D, even if it is a significantly larger airframe design - the program was implemented as an Engineering Change Proposal (ECP) to avoid a costly demonstration program and fly-off. A side effect of this idiosyncrasy in nomenclature is that the F/A-18E/F is frequently dismissed as just another Hornet, yet the aircraft is very different in many respects.
> 
> From a design perspective, the most notable change in the Super Hornet is its size, designed around an internal fuel (JP5) capacity of 14,700 lb, or 36% more than the F/A-18C/E. This most closely compares to the clean F-15C, which has around 10% less internal fuel than the Super Hornet.
> 
> Sizing around a 36% greater internal fuel load than the F/A-18C, with the aim of retaining the established agility performance of the F/A-18C, resulted in a larger wing of 500 sqft area, against the 400 sqft area of the F/A-18C, a 25% increase. The consequent sizing changes result in a 30,885 lb empty weight (31,500 lb basic weight) aircraft, a 30% increase against the F/A-18C. Not surprisingly, the aircraft's empty weight is 8% greater than the F-15C, reflecting the structural realities of catapult launches and tailhook recoveries.
> 
> The larger F414 engine, a refanned and evolved F404 derivative, delivers 20,700 lb static SL thrust in afterburner, which is around 8% less than the F100-PW-220 in the F-15C.
> 
> The simplest metric of the F/A-18E/F is that it is an F-15A-D sized F/A-18C derivative, optimised for the naval environment.
> 
> Size is where the similarity between the Super Hornet and Eagle end, since the Super Hornet is optimised aerodynamically around the F/A-18A-D configuration, with a focus on transonic manoeuvre and load carrying performance, and carrier recovery characteristics. In terms of raw performance, the Super Hornet is very similar to the F/A-18C, but provides significantly better CAP endurance and operating radius by virtue of its larger wing and internal fuel load.
> 
> With three 480 USG drop tanks, full internal fuel, combat and reserve fuel allowances, 8 x AIM-120 AMRAAMs and 2 x AIM-9 Sidewinders, the aircraft has a point intercept radius cited in excess of 650 NMI, with some assumptions made about expended missiles. This is radius performance in the class of the clean F-15C.
> Like the F/A-18A-D, the F/A-18E/F was designed from the outset for a dual role fighter bomber mission environment. The enlarged wings have three hardpoints each, typically loaded with a pair of 480 USG tanks inboard and weapons on the pair of outboard stations. The wingtip Sidewinder rail is retained.
> 
> A notable aerodynamic feature is a significantly enlarged strake design over the baseline Hornet, intended to improve vortex lifting characteristics in high AoA manoeuvre, and reduce the static stability margin to enhance pitching characteristics - Boeing cite pitch rates in excess of 40 degrees per second.
> 
> Structurally the Super Hornet is built largely from aluminium alloys, with extensive use of carbon fibre composite skins in the wings, and titanium in several critical areas. The design load factor limit of 7.5G is identical to the F/A-18A-D, at an unspecified gross weight.
> 
> Until recently, Super Hornets were delivered with the Raytheon APG-73 radar, not unlike the F/A-18A/B HUG radar. Most recent deliveries see the new APG-79 Active Electronically Steered Array (AESA) radar fitted. The APG-79 is considered to have slightly better range performance than the Joint strike Fighter's APG-81 AESA, but inferior to the F-22A's larger APG-77.
> 
> The Super Hornet is fitted with a new AN/ALQ-124 Integrated Defensive Countermeasures system (IDECM) EWSP system, including the ALE-50 towed decoy, more capable than the legacy package in US or RAAF 'Classic' Hornets. There is thus little commonality between the Super Hornet and 'Classic' Hornet variants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notes: O/B - seeker off-boresight acquisition angle; IRH - heatseeking, single or dual colour scanning seeker; SARH - semi-active radar homing seeker; DL - datalink for midcourse guidance corrections - either analogue or digital; IMU - inertial package for midcourse guidance; Passive RF - passive radio frequency anti-radiation seeker; ARH - active radar homing seeker; Acquisition Range is that at which the seeker can acquire its target; Kinematic Range is A-pole or F-pole; Target G - max load factor of target vehicle; Launch G - max load factor of launch aircraft; APU - Aviatsionnaya Puskovaya Ustanovka (rail launcher); AKU - Aviatsionnaya Katapultnaya Ustanovka (ejector); This is a current open source compilation based on manufacturers' and third party data therefore figures should be treated with appropriate caution (Author).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Air Combat in the Current Era*
> 
> To make a comparison between the Super Hornet and Flanker, it is necessary to explore the kind of air combat we will see in the region over coming years. Aerial combat between fighters has seen considerable evolution since the 1940s, driven in part by weapons technology, in part by sensor technology and in part by airframe aerodynamic performance. The last two decades have seen two important trends.
> 
> The first is the ascendancy of Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat, as advances in sensors have permitted long range missile engagements with increasing confidence that the target is indeed a hostile.
> 
> The second trend has been the proliferation of extremely agile heatseeking missiles for close combat, and associated Helmet Mounted Displays or Sights. The effectiveness and lethality of fourth generation heatseeking missiles makes close combat with a situationally aware opponent a high risk game. Missiles such as the AIM-9X, ASRAAM, Python 4 and 5, Iris T, R-73 and R-74 give no quarter, and with exceptional G capability, often aided by Thrust Vector Control (TVC), these missiles are almost impossible to defeat by manoeuvre. Increasingly such missiles are acquiring Focal Plane Array imaging seekers, supplanting the scanning seekers dominant for decades, making them virtually immune to flares and jammers developed to defeat scanning seekers.
> 
> Whoever takes the first shot in a close in engagement most likely wins. Does this preclude close combat in the future? Only in the minds of those observers who imagine that all future aerial conflict will be highly assymetric, not unlike the Desert Storm, Allied Force and Iraqi Freedom air campaigns.
> 
> Reality is somewhat different. In global terms, most modern fighter aircraft are today being purchased by nations in the Pacific-Rim and South Asian regions. These nations are mostly building modern force structures for their air forces, including Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft, tanker aircraft, passive electronic surveillance and intelligence aircraft (Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance – ISR), and most likely in coming years, stand off support jamming aircraft. Datalinking and networking is increasing available. The United States, or US aligned nations will thus confront an environment which is at best asymmetric in the quality of specific force structure components, but not asymmetric in force structure, like the air campaigns of the 1990s.
> 
> The dominance of BVR combat is contingent on having what amounts to 'information superiority', or what is an asymmetric advantage in 'big picture' situational awareness. Once both sides operate AEW&C, passive ISR, networks and high power support jammers, the 'fog of war' yet again re-emerges, as sensors are degraded or blinded, networks and datalinks degrade or drop out, and a clear picture of the battlespace is again difficult to acquire.
> 
> In this sense, the uncontested dominance of BVR combat will only last as long as it takes for the key force multipliers to become more widely available to non US-aligned air forces. The proliferation of 100 to 200 nautical mile range “counter-ISR” missiles like the Russian R-172, R-37 and Kh-31 variants add yet another variable to this mix. This is the future air combat environment, where information is the new high ground, and being where one is not expected to be is increasingly valuable.
> 
> In comparing the Super Hornet and the Flanker, we must be mindful of the environment they will operate in. The notion that these two types will be flown against each other in the asymmetric world of the 1990s is at best naïve, at worst foolish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Su-30MKI and Su-35 use the thrust vectoring AL-31FU powerplant (Irkut)
> *
> Sukhoi Flanker vs the Super Hornet*
> 
> In assessing the Flanker against the Super Hornet it is clear from the outset that the advantage in firepower, speed, raw agility, range and manoeuvre performance goes to the Flanker. Given that operational Flankers span variants from B through H, and type designations from Su-27S, through Su-30s to Su-35s, there are a wide range of configurations possible.
> 
> This has been further complicated by the Russian propensity to customise configurations for clients, and perform ongoing technology upgrades to operational variants. Another byproduct of Russian marketing is that the label Su-30 spans an upgraded Su-27SKM (Su-30KI) up to the Indian Su-30MKI, which uses extensive ly features demonstrated in the Su-37.
> 
> In terms of aerodynamic performance the Flanker sits broadly in the class of the F-15 family, with similar thrust / weight ratios at similar weights. The empty weight of Flanker variants ranges between 37,240 - 40,800 lb and internal fuel capacities between 20,750 - 22,600 lb.
> 
> At this time all production Flankers are flying with variants of the Saturn/Salyut Al-31F, which deliver static sea level thrust ratings in the 27 klb to 32 klb class, depending on the variant. This engine is comparable to the latest P&W F100 and GE F110 series engines, outperforming the smaller F404 series. In terms of supersonic speed, supersonic and subsonic acceleration and climb performance, the Super Hornet cannot compete with any Flanker variant.
> 
> High speed turning performance, where thrust limited, also goes to the Flanker, as does supersonic manoeuvre performance. The Super Hornet is severely handicapped by its lower combat thrust/weight ratio, and hybrid wing planform. It is worth observing that high alpha trim drag and pitch rates of the canard equipped Flanker variants, such as the Su-33 and Su-30MKI, will be superior to the versions without canards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where the Super Hornet is apt to be more competitive against the Flanker is in the near stall low speed high alpha flight regimes, where the Super Hornet's strakes and wing work well and advanced flight controls perform superbly. This is however not a regime favoured by combat pilots and thus not of significance in an assessment of combat potential.
> 
> The big gain in coming years for the Flanker in relative performance come with the new Al-41F engine, Russia's F119, now in Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP). The Al-41F delivers up to 40 klb class sea level static thrust, and high altitude dry thrust ratings to power the defunct supercruising MFI (Multi-Role Fighter).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al-41FU supercruise powerplant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians have been flying derated 33 klb Al-41Fs in a Su-27S since 2004. _With Al-41F engines installed the Flanker's robust margin in kinematic performance against the Super Hornet grows considerably in all regimes of flight – it provides the Flanker with 'F-22-like' raw agility and performance. _With wing sweep, planform, forebody shaping and inlets built for Mach 2+ dash, a clean Flanker with Al-41Fs should supercruise effectively. A supercruising Flanker with TVC nozzles, ie AL-41FU, can use downward TVC to offset supersonic trim drag and thus achieve lower fuel burn in this regime.
> 
> However, its supersonic energy bleed performance may not measure up to the refined design of the newer supercruise optimised designs, such as the F-22 or MFI. The bigger issue for the Flanker in supercruise is the drag of external stores, which will compromise it decisively against an optimsied design in supersonic combat.
> 
> The fix for this limitation is a centreline tunnel conformal weapons pod for the R-74 and R-77 family AAMs. If and when reports of such a design emerge, we can be certain that Sukhoi are planning to play the supercruise game in earnest.
> 
> In terms of combat radius performance the Flanker outperforms the Super Hornet, even with the latter carrying external tanks. There is no substitute for clean internal fuel. The Flanker's radar aperture is twice the size of the Hornet family apertures, due to the larger nose cross section.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The APG-79 provides comparable range performance to the JSF APG-81, making it inferior to the F-22A's APG-77, but better than in service Flanker radars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most capable radar in an operational Flanker is the NIIP N-011M BARS, a hybrid passive ESA design using a backplane feed and a range of transmitter tubes with varying peak power ratings. The hybird design provides equally good receiver sensitivity to Western AESA designs (Irkut).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The space feed passive array presents an opportunity for Flanker users to gain AESA like power and agility using legacy transmitter technology (Author)
> 
> In terms of radar capabilities, existing Flankers are equipped mostly with variants of N-001, comparable to early F-15 APG-63s. The Su-35 carries the N-011, closer to a late model APG-63/70, and the Su-30MKI the NIIP N-011M BARS which is a hybrid phased array closest in technology to the much smaller RBE2 in the Rafale. The BARS can be supplied with a range of Travelling Wave Tube (TWT) power ratings, but cannot compete with the Super Hornet's liquid cooled APG-79 AESA.
> 
> The new Pero N-001 antenna upgrade package, using a space feed reflective passive phased array, is apt to have much better peak power handling potential to the BARS, in a much cheaper design, but is yet to enter production. The PLA is reported to have been evaluating one fo two prototypes. A major concern is that a low loss waveguide feed suitable for very high peak and average power levels is easily integrated in a space feed arrangement of this type, and thus a peak power rating exceeding that of the APG-79 is not that difficult to effect, TWT performance permitting. Cooling is not an issue in an airframe the size of the Flanker.
> 
> NIIP and Phazotron are known to have been working on an AESA design, and given the aperture size of the Flanker, an AESA radar in the power-aperture rating class of the F-22's APG-77 is a distinct possibility for a post 2010 Flanker. The only issue for the Russian radar houses will be the availability of Gallium Arsenide HEMT (High Electron Mobility Transistor) transistors for the radar modules. Compared to the Super Hornet's APG-79, a Flanker sized AESA even with inferior radar module performance can match the power-aperture rating and thus range of the APG-79.
> 
> 
> 
> May/June 2007 Update Block - Irbis E Hybrid Phased Array
> 
> 
> The baseline N011M radar uses a vertically polarised 0.9 metre diameter aperture hybrid phased array, with individual per element receive path low noise amplifiers delivering a noise figure cited at 3 dB, similar to an AESA. Three receiver channels are used, one presumably for sidelobe blanking and ECCM. The EGSP-6A transmitter uses a single Chelnok Travelling Wave Tube, available in variants with peak power ratings between 4 and 7 kiloWatts, and CW illumination at 1 kW. Cited detection range for a closing target (High PRF) is up to 76 NMI, for a receding target up to 50 NMI. The phased array can electronically steer the mainlobe through +/-70 degrees in azimuth and +/-40 degrees in elevation. The whole array can be further steered mechanically. Polarisation can be switched by 90 degrees for surface search modes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NIIP Irbis E Prototypes (above, below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NIIP Irbis E Components (above)
> 
> The follow on to the BARS is the new Irbis-E (Snow Leopard) hybrid phased array, in development since 2004 and planned for the Su-35 block upgrade, and as a block upgrade or new build radar for other Flanker variants. The Irbis-E is an evolution of the BARS design, but significantly more powerful. While the hybrid phased array antenna is retained, the noise figure is slightly worse at 3.5 dB, but the receiver has four rather than three discrete channels. The biggest change is in the EGSP-27 transmitter, where the single 7 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok TWT is replaced with a pair of 10 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok tubes, ganged to provide a total peak power rating of 20 kiloWatts. The radar is cited at an average power rating of 5 kiloWatts, with 2 kiloWatts CW rating for illumination. NIIP claim twice the bandwidth and improved frequency agility over the BARS, and better ECCM capability. The Irbis-E has new Solo-35.01 digital signal processor hardware and Solo-35.02 data processor, but retains receiver hardware, the master oscillator and exciter of the BARS. A prototype has been in flight test since late 2005.
> 
> The performance increase in the Irbis-E is commensurate with the increased transmitter rating, and NIIP claim a detection range for a closing 3 square metre coaltitude target of 190 - 215 NMI (350-400 km), and the ability to detect a closing 0.01 square metre target at ~50 NMI (90 km). In Track While Scan (TWS) mode the radar can handle 30 targets simultaneously, and provide guidance for two simultaneous shots using a semi-active missile like the R-27 series, or eight simultaneous shots using an active missile like the RVV-AE/R-77 or ramjet RVV-AE-PD/R-77M. The Irbis-E was clearly designed to support the ramjet RVV-AE-PD/R-77M missile in BVR combat against reduced signature Western fighters like the Block II Super Hornet or Eurofighter Typhoon. Curiously, NIIP do not claim superiority over the F-22A's APG-77 AESA, yet their cited performance figures exceed the public (and no doubt heavily sanitised) range figures for the APG-77.
> 
> 
> The existing N011M series lacks a Low Probability of Intercept capability, in part due to antenna bandwidth limits and in part due to processor limitations. This is likely to change over the coming decade, with the Irbis-E, as customers demand an ability to defeat or degrade Western ESM equipment and the technology to do this becomes more accessible.
> 
> 
> The N012 tail warning radar has been reported to be part of the Su-30MKI suite and is offered as a retrofit to other models.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IDECM EWSP suite on the Super Hornet is more advanced than the EWSP suites on older Flanker variants. Defensive systems include a Radar Warning Receiver, mostly variants of the SPO-32 / L150 Pastel digital receiver carried. Newer Flankers however carry the podded wingtip mounted KNIRTI SPS-171 / L005S Sorbtsiya-S mid/high band defensive jammer, this system being an evolution of a jammer developed for the Backfire C. The Sorbtsiya-S, unlike most Western jamming pods, is designed to operate in pairs and uses forward and aft looking steerable wideband phased arrays to maximise jamming effect. It is worth observing that the Sorbtsiya is clearly built to provide cross-eye jamming modes against monopulse threats, and the wideband mainlobe steering capability provided by the phased array permits best possible utilisation of available jamming power. A graded dielectric lens is employed. Russian contractors have been using Digital RF Memory (DRFM) technology, which is of the same generation as Super Hornet EWSP. The Super Hornet does not have any compelling advantage in EWSP capability.
> 
> Computing capability in operational Flankers is mostly provided by legacy Russian hardware, but with some COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) processors now appearing in radar upgrades and missile seekers. While this is an area where the Sukhois are barely competitive against the current Super Hornet, it is the easiest of all of the performance gaps for the Russians to close.
> 
> In summary, the Flanker outperforms the Super Hornet decisively in aerodynamic performance. What advantage the Super Hornet now has in the APG-79 radar will vanish in coming years as Russian AESAs emerge. The one area in which the Flanker currently trails the Super Hornet is in radar signature (stealth) performance. The Super Hornet has inlet geometry shaping, inlet tunnel S-bends, and an AESA shroud all of which reduce its forward sector signature well below that of the Flanker.
> 
> In the short term, this is an advantage the Super Hornet retains, with the caveat that external stores put hard limits on signature improvement for the Super Hornet. However, Russian researchers have done some excellent work over the last decade in absorbent materials and laminate techniques for radar signature reduction, which offer the potential for the Flanker to achieve similar signature reduction to the F/A-18E/F. If funded, a reduced signature Flanker is feasible in the next half decade.
> 
> In conclusion, the Flanker in all current variants kinematically outclasses the Super Hornet in all high performance flight regimes. The only near term advantage the latest Super Hornets have over legacy Flanker variants is in the APG-79 AESA and radar signature reduction features, an advantage which will not last long given highly active ongoing Russian development effort in these areas. The supercruising Al-41F engine will further widen the performance gap in favour of the Flanker. What this means is that post 2010 the Super Hornet is uncompetitive against advanced Flankers in BVR combat, as it is now uncompetitive in close combat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnAAPO/Sukhoi Su-27SKM Multirole Flanker Prototype. Further images.
> http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-SuperBug-vs-Flanker.html



very very detailed post!

my concern about the Sukhoi is the PESA radar, which is not up to the AESA.....
in the air superiority role against Western platforms, AESA would be a major issue....
but if we consider the aircraft as a flying command post controlling smaller fighters, PESA is still a potent weapon.... one aircraft can guide several other fighters with smaller radars.... and at the same time, it becomes a very well-protected AWACS.....

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> very very detailed post!
> 
> my concern about the Sukhoi is the PESA radar, which is not up to the AESA.....
> in the air superiority role against Western platforms, AESA would be a major issue....
> but if we consider the aircraft as a flying command post controlling smaller fighters, PESA is still a potent weapon.... one aircraft can guide several other fighters with smaller radars.... and at the same time, it becomes a very well-protected AWACS.....


Sm variant comes with aesa. We will get em. Don't worry.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Sm variant comes with aesa. We will get em. Don't worry.


What?


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> very very detailed post!
> 
> my concern about the Sukhoi is the PESA radar, which is not up to the AESA.....
> in the air superiority role against Western platforms, AESA would be a major issue....
> but if we consider the aircraft as a flying command post controlling smaller fighters, PESA is still a potent weapon.... one aircraft can guide several other fighters with smaller radars.... and at the same time, it becomes a very well-protected AWACS.....



Well Passive or Active Electronically Scanned Array, both types of radars have their pluses and minuses. But in a mini AWACS configuration, like you said, SU-35SM could guide smaller strike fighters with less capable radars in a maritime strike situation.

The Sukhoi SU-35SM Flanker-E specializes in the air superiority role, is high flying, fast and carries an enormous payload. Combined with its advanced suite of avionics especially jamming, this makes the Su-35 an extremely dangerous foe to any Western fighter, with the exception of the stealthy Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. That is why the Chinese PLA Air Force was keen to induct the new jet.

Fielded in numbers, even AESA equipped F-15Cs and F/A-18E/F Super Hornets would both have their hands full.

The F-35 has stealth and sensor management as advantages over Su-35 but the latter as a 4++ gen fighter ir a potent weapon even without AESA. The F-35 was built primarily as a small strike fighter and does not have the sheer speed or altitude capability of the Su-35 or F-22. The Su's ability to go high and fast is a big concern, including for F-35.

As an air-superiority fighter, the SU-35SMs major advantages are its combination of high altitude capability and blistering speed—which allow the fighter to impart the maximum possible amount of launch energy to its arsenal of long-range air-to-air missiles.

The Su-35 would be launching its weapons from high supersonic speeds around Mach 1.5 at altitudes greater than 45,000 ft; the F-35 would primarily be operating in the 30,000-ft range at speeds around Mach 0.9.

The Su-35 builds on the already refined and lighweight su-27 Flanker airframe, which in many respects already exceeded the aerodynamic performance of the Boeing F-15 Eagle. The Su-35 adds an even lighter airframe, with three-dimensional thrust vectoring, advanced avionics and powerful jamming capability. Having large powerful engines, the ability to supercruise for a long time and very good avionics make this a tough platform, also having a big off-boresight capability and a very capable jamming suite. Adding a conformal weapons pod underneath between the engines would help supercruise even further.

The addition of the electronic attack (EA) capability makes it superior in Many respects to Western fighters because the Su-35’s advanced digital radio frequency memory jammers can seriously degrade the performance of Western radars. It effectively blinds the mini onboard radars found on US-made missiles like the AIM-120 AMRAAM as Well as French and other western air-to-air missiles.

Ultimately its a game of jamming creatively and working against that jamming. The SU-35SM is a great player in this game.
WESTERN airforces haven't been pursuing appropriate methods to counter EA jamming for some time. While the F-22 Raptor is stealthy, they will have a hard time working their way through the EA jamming to target the Su-35s and western missiles will have a hard time killing them.

The Su-35 also carries a potent infrared search and track capability that could pose a serious problem for Western fighters. It also has non-EM [electro-magnetic] sensors to help it detect other aircraft, which could be useful in long-range detection.

Another of the Su-35’s major advantages is that it carries an enormous payload of air-to-air missiles. It is essentially a high-end truck which can carry a ton of air-to-air ordnance into a fight.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB* 


সারপ্রাইজ দেয়ার কথা ছিলো আপনাদের মনে আছে??

বলেছিলাম খুশি হবেন অনেক.......

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAF TO PROCURE ২ টি 2X C-130J Super Hercules ক্রয় করছে।এই বিমান C-130 এর নতুন, সর্বাধুনিক এবং বৃহৎ সদস্য। বাংলাদেশ হতে যাচ্ছে এই বিমানের নবম এশিয়ান অপারেটর এবং বিশ্বের ২০ তম অপারেটর।

প্রথমে অত শিউর ছিলাম না।আজ তা নিশ্চিত করেছে confirmed by PSBD.

বাংলাদেশ from Royal Air Force (RAF) থেকে কিনছে।

প্রতিবেশী দেশগুলোর মধ্যে কেবলমাত্র ভারত এই অত্যাধুনিক বিমান ব্যবহার করে।

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
2 hrs · 


বিমানবাহিনীর recent procurement list যার অনেকগুলা অর্ডার হয়ে গেছে এবং বাকিগুলো অর্ডার করা হচ্ছে এবং এটি ১০০% কনফার্মড




♦২ টি 2 X C-130J MK-5 Super Hercules



♦৭ টি 7 X K-8W IJT/light attack aircraft



♦১+১ টি 1 + 1`AW-119 (1 more to order)



♦৫+২ টি 5 +2 Mi-171sh (2 more will be ordered soon)



♦১ ব্যাটারি 1 X Battery Medium Range SAM



♦৪ টি 4 x Chinese Drones চাইনিজ ড্রোন (UAV)

এগুলোর সবগুলোই এই বছর কেনা হবে তা 100% confirmed ১০০% কনফার্ম। বাকি আপডেট পরে জানানো হবে।

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## BanglarBagh

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 2 hrs ·
> 
> 
> বিমানবাহিনীর recent procurement list যার অনেকগুলা অর্ডার হয়ে গেছে এবং বাকিগুলো অর্ডার করা হচ্ছে এবং এটি ১০০% কনফার্মড
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦২ টি 2 X C-130J MK-5 Super Hercules
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৭ টি 7 X K-8W IJT/light attack aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১+১ টি 1 + 1`AW-119 (1 more to order)
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৫+২ টি 5 +2 Mi-171sh (2 more will be ordered soon)
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১ ব্যাটারি 1 X Battery Medium Range SAM
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৪ টি 4 x Chinese Drones চাইনিজ ড্রোন (UAV)
> 
> এগুলোর সবগুলোই এই বছর কেনা হবে তা 100% confirmed ১০০% কনফার্ম। বাকি আপডেট পরে জানানো হবে।




Any news about MRCA procurement?


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
2 July at 11:11 · 


Ok guy's...... Let's make it clear.

গত কিছুদিন আগে আমরা আপনাদের একটা সারপ্রাইজ all were told about a few Surprises পাওয়ার সম্ভাবনার কথা জানিয়েছিলাম এবং বলেছিলাম এটা হয়তো আপনাদের ভালো লাগবে না আবার খারাপও লাগবে না......সেটা আপনাদের অনুরোধের ভিত্তিতে আজ clear করা হচ্ছে। *★তবে এই নিউজ এখনো news is yet NOT authentic না★*

বাংলাদেশ সসস্ত্রবাহিনীর এক কর্মকর্তার বরাত দিয়ে জানা গেছে *"বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১ স্কোয়াড্রন 1 x squadron of CAC FC-1/PAC JF-17 block-3 could be procured কেনা হতে পারে"। যদিও Block-3 not yet produced এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায় নি তবে production may start by year end এই বছরের শেষ দিকে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে বলে ধারনা করা হচ্ছে।*

যদিও এটার সত্যতা নিয়ে বেশ সন্দেহ আছে...doubtful about the truth .কারন আপনি যদি চীন থেকে এই বিমান অর্ডার দেন তাহলেও এই বিমান Manufactured by করবে Pakistan Aeronautical Center (PAC).কারন JF-17 এর প্রোডাকশন লাইন কেবল পাকিস্তানে আছে। চীন এই প্রোজেক্টে সাহায্য করলেও নিজেদের বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য এই বিমান ব্যবহার করে না।

এছাড়া বাংলাদেশের সাথে পাকিস্তানের বর্তমান শীতল due to cold diplomatic relations কূটনীতিক সম্পর্ক এই ডিলের অন্তরায়। বর্তমান আওয়ামীলীগ সরকারের আমলে পাকিস্তানের সাথে বাংলাদেশের সম্পর্ক মোটেও ভালো না।সেই হিসাবে এই দুই দেশের মধ্যে মাল্টিমিলিয়ন even thinking about this multi billion $ project could be foolish ডলারের ডিফেন্স ডিল হওয়ার কথা চিন্তা করাটাও বোকামি বলে আমরা মনে করি।তবে কোন কারনে যদি কেনা হয় তাহলে আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার বিতর্কিত হবে এবং আমাদের জানামতে জাতীয় নির্বাচনের আগে এত বড় ভুল আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার করবে না। However, due to the cold relations between Awami League Government and Pakistan, it may not be feasible. 

আরেকটা কথা শোনা গেছে যে যদি কোন কারনে বা দূর্ঘটনাবশত বাংলাদেশ JF-17 Block-3 কিনে তাইলে বাংলাদেশ ২০২২ এর আগে J-10 যুদ্ধবিমান কিনবে না।

*আর সারপ্রাইজটা হলো "আমরা একটা another unconfirmed reports states that পেয়েছি যাতে কয়েকজন দাবি করছেন বাংলাদেশ Bangladesh may procure both JF-17 and এবং J-10 দুইটাই কিনবে।যদি JF-17 will be কেনা হয় তাইলে এটার জন্য আলাদা স্কোয়াড্রন খোলা হবে এবং for replacing F-7 ফ্লিটকে J-10B এর বদলে সর্বাধুনিক J-10C দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে যা এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায়নি এবং J-10C wont go into production before 2019 ২০১৯ এর আগে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে না"*

তবে JF-17 যদি কেনা হয় তাইলে ONLY Block-3 should be procured, ব্যতীত অন্য কোন ভার্সন এমনকি NOT even Block-2 কেনাও উচিৎ না।

আর আমার এই কথাটা আপনাদের কাছে খারাপ লাগলেও লাগতে পারে কিন্তু কথাটা আসলেই সত্য " JF-17 Block-2's RADAR ,AVIONICS AND PAYLOAD worse than এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স এবং পেলোড ভারতের নির্মিত Indian HAL Tejas থেকেও খারাপ।HAL Tejas একটা সংকর (



:3) বিমান হলেও এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স, পেলোড, আর্মামেন্ট JF-17 থেকে ভালো। আর RADAR CROSS SECTION রাডার ক্রস সেকশনের কথা যদি আমরা বলি তাইলে in JF-17 এ 0% composite materials কম্পোজিট ম্যাটেরিয়াল ইউজ করা হয়েছে যার ফলে এই রাডার ক্রস সেকশন J-10B এবং HAL Tejas থেকেও বেশি"
*



♦বি.দ্র- আমরা যে নিউজ পেয়েছি তা এখনো NOT Authentic না।তবে আমাদের পাওয়া নিউজ যদি সত্য হয় তাইলে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীতে BAF will induct ১২ টি 12 X SU-30 SME, ১৬ টি 16 X FC-1 Block-3 এবং and ৩২ টির মত 32 x J-10C ফাইটার থাকবে।

কনফার্ম নিউজ পেলে জানানো হবে। Once news are confirmed we will post the news.*

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## Bilal9

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 
> 
> সারপ্রাইজ দেয়ার কথা ছিলো আপনাদের মনে আছে??
> 
> বলেছিলাম খুশি হবেন অনেক.......
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAF TO PROCURE ২ টি 2X C-130J Super Hercules ক্রয় করছে।এই বিমান C-130 এর নতুন, সর্বাধুনিক এবং বৃহৎ সদস্য। বাংলাদেশ হতে যাচ্ছে এই বিমানের নবম এশিয়ান অপারেটর এবং বিশ্বের ২০ তম অপারেটর।
> 
> প্রথমে অত শিউর ছিলাম না।আজ তা নিশ্চিত করেছে confirmed by PSBD.
> 
> বাংলাদেশ from Royal Air Force (RAF) থেকে কিনছে।
> 
> প্রতিবেশী দেশগুলোর মধ্যে কেবলমাত্র ভারত এই অত্যাধুনিক বিমান ব্যবহার করে।



Excellent news!

Way more capable than those refurbished A models....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Avicenna

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 2 July at 11:11 ·
> 
> 
> Ok guy's...... Let's make it clear.
> 
> গত কিছুদিন আগে আমরা আপনাদের একটা সারপ্রাইজ পাওয়ার সম্ভাবনার কথা জানিয়েছিলাম এবং বলেছিলাম এটা হয়তো আপনাদের ভালো লাগবে না আবার খারাপও লাগবে না......সেটা আপনাদের অনুরোধের ভিত্তিতে আজ clear করা হচ্ছে। *★তবে এই নিউজ এখনো authentic না★*
> 
> বাংলাদেশ সসস্ত্রবাহিনীর এক কর্মকর্তার বরাত দিয়ে জানা গেছে *"বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১ স্কোয়াড্রন CAC FC-1/PAC JF-17 block-3 কেনা হতে পারে"। যদিও Block-3 এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায় নি তবে এই বছরের শেষ দিকে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে বলে ধারনা করা হচ্ছে।*
> 
> যদিও এটার সত্যতা নিয়ে বেশ সন্দেহ আছে....কারন আপনি যদি চীন থেকে এই বিমান অর্ডার দেন তাহলেও এই বিমান Manufacture করবে Pakistan Aeronautical Center (PAC).কারন JF-17 এর প্রোডাকশন লাইন কেবল পাকিস্তানে আছে। চীন এই প্রোজেক্টে সাহায্য করলেও নিজেদের বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য এই বিমান ব্যবহার করে না।এছাড়া বাংলাদেশের সাথে পাকিস্তানের বর্তমান শীতল কূটনীতিক সম্পর্ক এই ডিলের অন্তরায়। বর্তমান আওয়ামীলীগ সরকারের আমলে পাকিস্তানের সাথে বাংলাদেশের সম্পর্ক মোটেও ভালো না।সেই হিসাবে এই দুই দেশের মধ্যে মাল্টিমিলিয়ন ডলারের ডিফেন্স ডিল হওয়ার কথা চিন্তা করাটাও বোকামি বলে আমরা মনে করি।তবে কোন কারনে যদি কেনা হয় তাহলে আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার বিতর্কিত হবে এবং আমাদের জানামতে জাতীয় নির্বাচনের আগে এত বড় ভুল আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার করবে না।
> 
> আরেকটা কথা শোনা গেছে যে যদি কোন কারনে বা দূর্ঘটনাবশত বাংলাদেশ JF-17 Block-3 কিনে তাইলে বাংলাদেশ ২০২২ এর আগে J-10 যুদ্ধবিমান কিনবে না।
> 
> *আর সারপ্রাইজটা হলো "আমরা একটা unconfirmed report পেয়েছি যাতে কয়েকজন দাবি করছেন বাংলাদেশ JF-17 এবং J-10 দুইটাই কিনবে।যদি JF-17 কেনা হয় তাইলে এটার জন্য আলাদা স্কোয়াড্রন খোলা হবে এবং F-7 ফ্লিটকে J-10B এর বদলে সর্বাধুনিক J-10C দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে যা এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায়নি এবং ২০১৯ এর আগে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে না"*
> 
> তবে JF-17 যদি কেনা হয় তাইলে Block-3 ব্যতীত অন্য কোন ভার্সন এমনকি Block-2 কেনাও উচিৎ না।
> আর আমার এই কথাটা আপনাদের কাছে খারাপ লাগলেও লাগতে পারে কিন্তু কথাটা আসলেই সত্য " JF-17 Block-2 এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স এবং পেলোড ভারতের নির্মিত HAL Tejas থেকেও খারাপ।HAL Tejas একটা সংকর (
> 
> 
> 
> :3) বিমান হলেও এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স, পেলোড, আর্মামেন্ট JF-17 থেকে ভালো। আর রাডার ক্রস সেকশনের কথা যদি আমরা বলি তাইলে JF-17 এ ০% কম্পোজিট ম্যাটেরিয়াল ইউজ করা হয়েছে যার ফলে এই রাডার ক্রস সেকশন J-10B এবং HAL Tejas থেকেও বেশি"
> *
> 
> 
> 
> ♦বি.দ্র- আমরা যে নিউজ পেয়েছি তা এখনো Authentic না।তবে আমাদের পাওয়া নিউজ যদি সত্য হয় তাইলে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীতে ১২ টি SU-30SME, ১৬ টি FC-1 Block-3 এবং ৩২ টির মত J-10C ফাইটার থাকবে।
> 
> কনফার্ম নিউজ পেলে জানানো হবে।*



What does that say?


----------



## Michael Corleone

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 2 July at 11:11 ·
> 
> 
> Ok guy's...... Let's make it clear.
> 
> গত কিছুদিন আগে আমরা আপনাদের একটা সারপ্রাইজ পাওয়ার সম্ভাবনার কথা জানিয়েছিলাম এবং বলেছিলাম এটা হয়তো আপনাদের ভালো লাগবে না আবার খারাপও লাগবে না......সেটা আপনাদের অনুরোধের ভিত্তিতে আজ clear করা হচ্ছে। *★তবে এই নিউজ এখনো authentic না★*
> 
> বাংলাদেশ সসস্ত্রবাহিনীর এক কর্মকর্তার বরাত দিয়ে জানা গেছে *"বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১ স্কোয়াড্রন CAC FC-1/PAC JF-17 block-3 কেনা হতে পারে"। যদিও Block-3 এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায় নি তবে এই বছরের শেষ দিকে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে বলে ধারনা করা হচ্ছে।*
> 
> যদিও এটার সত্যতা নিয়ে বেশ সন্দেহ আছে....কারন আপনি যদি চীন থেকে এই বিমান অর্ডার দেন তাহলেও এই বিমান Manufacture করবে Pakistan Aeronautical Center (PAC).কারন JF-17 এর প্রোডাকশন লাইন কেবল পাকিস্তানে আছে। চীন এই প্রোজেক্টে সাহায্য করলেও নিজেদের বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য এই বিমান ব্যবহার করে না।এছাড়া বাংলাদেশের সাথে পাকিস্তানের বর্তমান শীতল কূটনীতিক সম্পর্ক এই ডিলের অন্তরায়। বর্তমান আওয়ামীলীগ সরকারের আমলে পাকিস্তানের সাথে বাংলাদেশের সম্পর্ক মোটেও ভালো না।সেই হিসাবে এই দুই দেশের মধ্যে মাল্টিমিলিয়ন ডলারের ডিফেন্স ডিল হওয়ার কথা চিন্তা করাটাও বোকামি বলে আমরা মনে করি।তবে কোন কারনে যদি কেনা হয় তাহলে আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার বিতর্কিত হবে এবং আমাদের জানামতে জাতীয় নির্বাচনের আগে এত বড় ভুল আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার করবে না।
> 
> আরেকটা কথা শোনা গেছে যে যদি কোন কারনে বা দূর্ঘটনাবশত বাংলাদেশ JF-17 Block-3 কিনে তাইলে বাংলাদেশ ২০২২ এর আগে J-10 যুদ্ধবিমান কিনবে না।
> 
> *আর সারপ্রাইজটা হলো "আমরা একটা unconfirmed report পেয়েছি যাতে কয়েকজন দাবি করছেন বাংলাদেশ JF-17 এবং J-10 দুইটাই কিনবে।যদি JF-17 কেনা হয় তাইলে এটার জন্য আলাদা স্কোয়াড্রন খোলা হবে এবং F-7 ফ্লিটকে J-10B এর বদলে সর্বাধুনিক J-10C দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে যা এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায়নি এবং ২০১৯ এর আগে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে না"*
> 
> তবে JF-17 যদি কেনা হয় তাইলে Block-3 ব্যতীত অন্য কোন ভার্সন এমনকি Block-2 কেনাও উচিৎ না।
> আর আমার এই কথাটা আপনাদের কাছে খারাপ লাগলেও লাগতে পারে কিন্তু কথাটা আসলেই সত্য " JF-17 Block-2 এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স এবং পেলোড ভারতের নির্মিত HAL Tejas থেকেও খারাপ।HAL Tejas একটা সংকর (
> 
> 
> 
> :3) বিমান হলেও এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স, পেলোড, আর্মামেন্ট JF-17 থেকে ভালো। আর রাডার ক্রস সেকশনের কথা যদি আমরা বলি তাইলে JF-17 এ ০% কম্পোজিট ম্যাটেরিয়াল ইউজ করা হয়েছে যার ফলে এই রাডার ক্রস সেকশন J-10B এবং HAL Tejas থেকেও বেশি"
> *
> 
> 
> 
> ♦বি.দ্র- আমরা যে নিউজ পেয়েছি তা এখনো Authentic না।তবে আমাদের পাওয়া নিউজ যদি সত্য হয় তাইলে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীতে ১২ টি SU-30SME, ১৬ টি FC-1 Block-3 এবং ৩২ টির মত J-10C ফাইটার থাকবে।
> 
> কনফার্ম নিউজ পেলে জানানো হবে।*


I have got the same information... though my sources tell me j-10 will be supplemented by Jf -17 and not purchase individual platform... i.e. Either j-10 or j-10 with jf-17 (with the later having some form of tot deal)


----------



## Banglar Bir

Avicenna said:


> What does that say?


EARLIER POST EDITED,KINDLY READ ONCE AGAIN. SALAM.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> I have got the same information... though my sources tell me j-10 will be supplemented by Jf -17 and not purchase individual platform... i.e. Either j-10 or j-10 with jf-17 (with the later having some form of tot deal)



*আর সারপ্রাইজটা হলো "আমরা একটা another unconfirmed reports states that পেয়েছি যাতে কয়েকজন দাবি করছেন বাংলাদেশ Bangladesh may procure both JF-17 and এবং J-10 দুইটাই কিনবে।যদি JF-17 will be কেনা হয় তাইলে এটার জন্য আলাদা স্কোয়াড্রন খোলা হবে এবং for replacing F-7 ফ্লিটকে J-10B এর বদলে সর্বাধুনিক J-10C দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে যা এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায়নি এবং J-10C wont go into production before 2019 ২০১৯ এর আগে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে না"*


----------



## TopCat

BANGLAR BIR said:


> EARLIER POST EDITED,KINDLY READ ONCE AGAIN. SALAM.
> 
> 
> 
> *আর সারপ্রাইজটা হলো "আমরা একটা another unconfirmed reports states that পেয়েছি যাতে কয়েকজন দাবি করছেন বাংলাদেশ Bangladesh may procure both JF-17 and এবং J-10 দুইটাই কিনবে।যদি JF-17 will be কেনা হয় তাইলে এটার জন্য আলাদা স্কোয়াড্রন খোলা হবে এবং for replacing F-7 ফ্লিটকে J-10B এর বদলে সর্বাধুনিক J-10C দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে যা এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায়নি এবং J-10C wont go into production before 2019 ২০১৯ এর আগে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে না"*




All are bs news..
There will not be any jf17. People are just trying to troll indians with this news.

If Bangladesh wanted they could had bought JF-17 instead of F-7 BGI.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## Avicenna

If true then why 3 types? It makes no sense. 

Either Mig-35 with -29 upgrade and JF-17 OR

J-10B with SU-30SME.

Those 2 combinations would make the most sense no? At least from the engine commonlality persepctive.


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## Nilgiri

Species said:


> I've elder relatives who have landed on the moon.



Good for you. Now enjoy the pictures and evidence already posted you ingrate.

http://madrasregiment.org/indopak1971.htm

Middle finger to all the worthless ingrates that hit thanks to you too


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## Species

Nilgiri said:


> Good for you. Now enjoy the pictures and evidence already posted you ingrate.
> 
> http://madrasregiment.org/indopak1971.htm
> 
> Middle finger to all the worthless ingrates that hit thanks to you too



Posted and already busted. Those Madrasis were batmaning in Punjab and Rajasthan, not East Pakistan.



BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 2 July at 11:11 ·
> 
> 
> Ok guy's...... Let's make it clear.
> 
> গত কিছুদিন আগে আমরা আপনাদের একটা সারপ্রাইজ all were told about a few Surprises পাওয়ার সম্ভাবনার কথা জানিয়েছিলাম এবং বলেছিলাম এটা হয়তো আপনাদের ভালো লাগবে না আবার খারাপও লাগবে না......সেটা আপনাদের অনুরোধের ভিত্তিতে আজ clear করা হচ্ছে। *★তবে এই নিউজ এখনো news is yet NOT authentic না★*
> 
> বাংলাদেশ সসস্ত্রবাহিনীর এক কর্মকর্তার বরাত দিয়ে জানা গেছে *"বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ১ স্কোয়াড্রন 1 x squadron of CAC FC-1/PAC JF-17 block-3 could be procured কেনা হতে পারে"। যদিও Block-3 not yet produced এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায় নি তবে production may start by year end এই বছরের শেষ দিকে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে বলে ধারনা করা হচ্ছে।*
> 
> যদিও এটার সত্যতা নিয়ে বেশ সন্দেহ আছে...doubtful about the truth .কারন আপনি যদি চীন থেকে এই বিমান অর্ডার দেন তাহলেও এই বিমান Manufactured by করবে Pakistan Aeronautical Center (PAC).কারন JF-17 এর প্রোডাকশন লাইন কেবল পাকিস্তানে আছে। চীন এই প্রোজেক্টে সাহায্য করলেও নিজেদের বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য এই বিমান ব্যবহার করে না।
> 
> এছাড়া বাংলাদেশের সাথে পাকিস্তানের বর্তমান শীতল due to cold diplomatic relations কূটনীতিক সম্পর্ক এই ডিলের অন্তরায়। বর্তমান আওয়ামীলীগ সরকারের আমলে পাকিস্তানের সাথে বাংলাদেশের সম্পর্ক মোটেও ভালো না।সেই হিসাবে এই দুই দেশের মধ্যে মাল্টিমিলিয়ন even thinking about this multi billion $ project could be foolish ডলারের ডিফেন্স ডিল হওয়ার কথা চিন্তা করাটাও বোকামি বলে আমরা মনে করি।তবে কোন কারনে যদি কেনা হয় তাহলে আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার বিতর্কিত হবে এবং আমাদের জানামতে জাতীয় নির্বাচনের আগে এত বড় ভুল আওয়ামীলীগ সরকার করবে না। However, due to the cold relations between Awami League Government and Pakistan, it may not be feasible.
> 
> আরেকটা কথা শোনা গেছে যে যদি কোন কারনে বা দূর্ঘটনাবশত বাংলাদেশ JF-17 Block-3 কিনে তাইলে বাংলাদেশ ২০২২ এর আগে J-10 যুদ্ধবিমান কিনবে না।
> 
> *আর সারপ্রাইজটা হলো "আমরা একটা another unconfirmed reports states that পেয়েছি যাতে কয়েকজন দাবি করছেন বাংলাদেশ Bangladesh may procure both JF-17 and এবং J-10 দুইটাই কিনবে।যদি JF-17 will be কেনা হয় তাইলে এটার জন্য আলাদা স্কোয়াড্রন খোলা হবে এবং for replacing F-7 ফ্লিটকে J-10B এর বদলে সর্বাধুনিক J-10C দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে যা এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায়নি এবং J-10C wont go into production before 2019 ২০১৯ এর আগে প্রোডাকশনে যাবে না"*
> 
> তবে JF-17 যদি কেনা হয় তাইলে ONLY Block-3 should be procured, ব্যতীত অন্য কোন ভার্সন এমনকি NOT even Block-2 কেনাও উচিৎ না।
> 
> আর আমার এই কথাটা আপনাদের কাছে খারাপ লাগলেও লাগতে পারে কিন্তু কথাটা আসলেই সত্য " JF-17 Block-2's RADAR ,AVIONICS AND PAYLOAD worse than এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স এবং পেলোড ভারতের নির্মিত Indian HAL Tejas থেকেও খারাপ।HAL Tejas একটা সংকর (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :3) বিমান হলেও এর রাডার, এভিয়োনিক্স, পেলোড, আর্মামেন্ট JF-17 থেকে ভালো। আর RADAR CROSS SECTION রাডার ক্রস সেকশনের কথা যদি আমরা বলি তাইলে in JF-17 এ 0% composite materials কম্পোজিট ম্যাটেরিয়াল ইউজ করা হয়েছে যার ফলে এই রাডার ক্রস সেকশন J-10B এবং HAL Tejas থেকেও বেশি"
> *
> 
> 
> 
> ♦বি.দ্র- আমরা যে নিউজ পেয়েছি তা এখনো NOT Authentic না।তবে আমাদের পাওয়া নিউজ যদি সত্য হয় তাইলে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীতে BAF will induct ১২ টি 12 X SU-30 SME, ১৬ টি 16 X FC-1 Block-3 এবং and ৩২ টির মত 32 x J-10C ফাইটার থাকবে।
> 
> কনফার্ম নিউজ পেলে জানানো হবে। Once news are confirmed we will post the news.*



These pages will keep sensationalizing the issue.

BAF urgently needs new aircraft to raise new squadrons as well as replace the aging fighters. PAC will be occupied with PAF's own demand for JF-17 Block III and there is no chance of BAF procuring block II. The same is true for J-10C since CAC will be busy in supplying PLAAF for some years. Perhaps, we may see J-10C coming in later years but the first batches will surely be J-10B.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *
1 hr · 


বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের "বঙ্গবন্ধু এয়ারফোর্স বেইস" এর জন্য নতুন a new tender has been floated for purchase of Surveillance Radar কেনার দরপত্র আহ্বান করেছে....

টেন্ডার লিংক-http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1235.pdf

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## Banglar Bir

*World Military News In Bangla - বাংলাতে বিশ্বের সামরিক খবর*
19 hrs · 
আসুন দেখে নেই সারা দেশে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীর ঘাঁটি গুলো। সারা দেশে বিমানবাহিনীর মোট ১৩ টি ঘাঁটি রয়েছে.......
১."বাশার বিমানবাহিনী ঘাঁটি" পুরাতন বিমানবন্দর ঢাকা।

২."কক্সবাজার বিমানবাহিনী ঘাঁটি" কক্সবাজার জেলা।

৩."বঙ্গবন্ধু বিমানবাহিনী ঘাঁটি" ঢাকা

৪."বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ মতিউর রহমান বিমানবাহিনী ঘাঁটি"
যশোর।

৫."জহুরুল বিমানবাহিনী ঘাঁটি" চট্টগ্রাম।

৬."বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ঘাঁটি" টাঙ্গাইল।

৭."বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী রাডার ইউনিট" বগুড়া।

৮."বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী রাডার ইউনিট"মৈালভিবাজার।

৯."বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী কেয়ার এবং 
মেইন্টনেন্স ইউনিট" মৈালভিবাজার।

১০."বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী রিক্রুটড এন্ড ট্রেইনিং
স্কুল"মৈালভিবাজার।

১১."৪১ স্কোয়াড্রন" গাজিপুর।

১২.২০৩ মেইন্টনেন্স ইউনিট গাজিপুর।

১৩."বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী কেয়ার এবং 
মেইন্টনেন্স ইউনিট" লালমনিরহাট

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bangladesh is already using K-8W..... people do not need to know that the "W"-version has production line only in Pakistan.... nobody actually saw the aircraft fly from Pakistan..... thought the Indians know this and they panicked..... someone even initiated some problems in Rakhaine after we got our K-8Ws flying over Myanmar territory.....

anyway, "Chinese-made" FC-1 (not as JF-17) can be marketed here, no issues....
the main point would be, whether the JF-17 is good enough for our requirements....
Tejas doesn't even come in the scene, since we aren't considering it.... so, whether JF-17 is equal to Tejas is not even a discussion.... discussion can be done on what other options would we have to FC-1/JF-17.... would we get ToT for that?..... if not, no point discussing it even..... theoretical discussion is not beneficial....

BAF is going for local production in the coming days..... so, any partner willing to provide ToT would get priority.....

from engine commonality perspective, Klimov and NPO Saturn are both Russian companies....
if one can be acquired, so can be the other....


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> Bangladesh is already using K-8W..... people do not need to know that the "W"-version has production line only in Pakistan.... nobody actually saw the aircraft fly from Pakistan..... thought the Indians know this and they panicked..... someone even initiated some problems in Rakhaine after we got our K-8Ws flying over Myanmar territory.....
> 
> anyway, "Chinese-made" FC-1 (not as JF-17) can be marketed here, no issues....
> the main point would be, whether the JF-17 is good enough for our requirements....
> Tejas doesn't even come in the scene, since we aren't considering it.... so, whether JF-17 is equal to Tejas is not even a discussion.... discussion can be done on what other options would we have to FC-1/JF-17.... would we get ToT for that?..... if not, no point discussing it even..... theoretical discussion is not beneficial....
> 
> BAF is going for local production in the coming days..... so, any partner willing to provide ToT would get priority.....
> 
> from engine commonality perspective, Klimov and NPO Saturn are both Russian companies....
> if one can be acquired, so can be the other....


Chasing tot deals for a mediocre (based on our requirement) 100 or so fighters is not economically practical option.

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## Arthur

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> Bangladesh is already using K-8W..... people do not need to know that the "W"-version has production line only in Pakistan.... nobody actually saw the aircraft fly from Pakistan..... thought the Indians know this and they panicked..... someone even initiated some problems in Rakhaine after we got our K-8Ws flying over Myanmar territory.....
> 
> anyway, "Chinese-made" FC-1 (not as JF-17) can be marketed here, no issues....
> the main point would be, whether the JF-17 is good enough for our requirements....
> Tejas doesn't even come in the scene, since we aren't considering it.... so, whether JF-17 is equal to Tejas is not even a discussion.... discussion can be done on what other options would we have to FC-1/JF-17.... would we get ToT for that?..... if not, no point discussing it even..... theoretical discussion is not beneficial....
> 
> BAF is going for local production in the coming days..... so, any partner willing to provide ToT would get priority.....
> 
> from engine commonality perspective, Klimov and NPO Saturn are both Russian companies....
> if one can be acquired, so can be the other....



JF 17 isn't an option or on consideration. It never was & it never will be. If China don't sell us J 10 they may also say good buy to many future major defence deals which would surely had gone their way. Military top brass don't suffer unreliable partners for that matter, nor the Chinese are about letting down their allies.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Chasing tot deals for a mediocre (based on our requirement) 100 or so fighters is not economically practical option.





Khan saheb said:


> JF 17 isn't an option or on consideration. It never was & it never will be.



great!.... good to know such definitive answers from your side.....
and I'm sure you have an alternative fighter that we can produce......
and I'm also sure that you won't argue against producing fighter aircraft in Bangladesh within the next decade or so....


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> great!.... good to know such definitive answers from your side.....
> and I'm sure you have an alternative fighter that we can produce......
> and I'm also sure that you won't argue against producing fighter aircraft in Bangladesh within the next decade or so....


If such a fighter is planned. Nothing advance within 2030. Maybe a program will start within this year's and if it thus our squadron count will increase too. 

There is a possibility to acquire tech for j-31 to be future proof.


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## TopCat

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> great!.... good to know such definitive answers from your side.....
> and I'm sure you have an alternative fighter that we can produce......
> and I'm also sure that you won't argue against producing fighter aircraft in Bangladesh within the next decade or so....


First try to offer some courses on composite materials and nano technology in the universities. 2nd try to produce some of those materials. I think those are harder than actually producing an aircraft.

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## Avicenna

There will likely be no TOT of anything military aviation related. Buy 2 or 3 squadrons of a modern multirole and associated munitions. And continue to improve the economy and infrastructure. And practice good diplomacy on the global stage. These should be the realistic goals.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> First try to offer some courses on composite materials and nano technology in the universities. 2nd try to produce some of those materials. I think those are harder than actually producing an aircraft.


BUET and related uni must be teaching about composite materials? No?

Such industry capability should be attained before even thinking about modern high performance jet fighters to be indigenously built. 
I agree.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

TopCat said:


> First try to offer some courses on composite materials and nano technology in the universities. 2nd try to produce some of those materials. I think those are harder than actually producing an aircraft.



hmm..... do you have to invent the process to make bread in order to eat bread?

almost every country in the world currently uses carbon fiber, but only a handful control the technology to make it.... does that mean that before you can invent your own carbon-fiber process you stop using it altogether?

if your purpose of bringing up this issue is to prove that Bangladesh cannot possibly be thinking of manufacturing aircraft, then this is an agenda that I am not at all aligned with, unfortunately.....


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## TopCat

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> hmm..... do you have to invent the process to make bread in order to eat bread?
> 
> almost every country in the world currently uses carbon fiber, but only a handful control the technology to make it.... does that mean that before you can invent your own carbon-fiber process you stop using it altogether?
> 
> if your purpose of bringing up this issue is to prove that Bangladesh cannot possibly be thinking of manufacturing aircraft, then this is an agenda that I am not at all aligned with, unfortunately.....



No you dont need to know how to make a bread to eat it, so you dont need to know making a plane to fly it. But you certainly need to know how to make a bread and ingredients if you want to use it as input for a different product.
Every country which produces aircraft from scratch can make their own carbon fiber. Trust me on this.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

TopCat said:


> No you dont need to know how to make a bread to eat it, so you dont need to know making a plane to fly it. But you certainly need to know how to make a bread and ingredients if you want to use it as input for a different product.
> Every country which produces aircraft from scratch can make their own carbon fiber. Trust me on this.



technology is a phone-call, pen-drive or air flight away..... its the intention that matters, which brings in technology - some that is knows to people as "ToT"

intention will bring technology..... that requires geopolitical alignment..... perhaps you forgot that the United States built its rocket arsenal with the help of German scientists and the Russian also did something similar regarding submarines after WWII..... building your base around others' technology has been done by the most powerful countries..... I am flabbergasted to know that you are citing "lack of knowhow" as a reason for not building manufacturing facilities....

and on another note, can you please give me the details of carbon fiber making process followed by all the countries that make aircraft?


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## TopCat

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> technology is a phone-call, pen-drive and air flight away..... its the intention that matters, which brings in technology - some that is knows to people as "ToT"
> 
> intention will bring technology..... that requires geopolitical alignment..... perhaps you forgot that the United States built its rocket arsenal with the help of German scientists and the Russian also did something similar regarding submarines after WWII..... building your base around others' technology has been done by the most powerful countries..... I am flabbergasted to know that you are citing "lack of knowhow" as a reason for not building manufacturing facilities....
> 
> and on another note, can you please give me the details of carbon fiber making process followed by all the countries that make aircraft?



You live in fantasy world.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

TopCat said:


> You live in fantasy world.



fantasy is created to keep people in shackles....
this colonial game is something I am super allergic to....


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## Nike

got info from my partner about UK to sold some of their C130J to BD. Ex Afghan theater mostly what they will offered

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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> hmm..... do you have to invent the process to make bread in order to eat bread?
> 
> almost every country in the world currently uses carbon fiber, but only a handful control the technology to make it.... does that mean that before you can invent your own carbon-fiber process you stop using it altogether?
> 
> if your purpose of bringing up this issue is to prove that Bangladesh cannot possibly be thinking of manufacturing aircraft, then this is an agenda that I am not at all aligned with, unfortunately.....


If I may offer my humble opinion.

Producing GFRP or CFRP STRUCTURES need only a few technologies that are neither classified, nor critical.

1. You need Carbon fibres or Glass fibres (AKA 'row') woven into GFRP/CFRP 'CLOTH'.
2. You will also need two part epoxy resin and hardener mixed in prescribed ratio to make a liquid. You will brush on this liquid into flat laid CFRP OR GFRP cloth DRAPED OVER the mold of the part. Molds have oil type mold release on them so that resin will not stick to the mold. Sometimes GFRP OR CFRP cut fibres (flakes) are sprayed on over the resin to form a layer. Multiple layers are formed this way to make the part thicker and stronger.
3. The mold and resin layer is then put into a large oven the size of the mold (autoclave) and cured (hardened).
4. Higher quality and strength for aerospace part use (such as wing parts or assemblies) can be obtained by using better quality expensive resin and fiber.
5. CFRP is common for aerospace use, GFRP is commonly used for boat hulls.
6. In Bangladesh there are several GFRP boat builders, there is one called Taratari Shipyard. They made the boats for Hatirjheel transportation link.

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> If I may offer my humble opinion.
> 
> Producing GFRP or CFRP STRUCTURES need only a few technologies that are neither classified, nor critical.
> 
> 1. You need Carbon fibres or Glass fibres (AKA 'row') woven into GFRP/CFRP 'CLOTH'.
> 2. You will also need two part epoxy resin and hardener mixed in prescribed ratio to make a liquid. You will brush on this liquid into flat laid CFRP OR GFRP cloth DRAPED OVER the mold of the part. Molds have oil type mold release on them so that resin will not stick to the mold. Sometimes GFRP OR CFRP cut fibres (flakes) are sprayed on over the resin to form a layer. Multiple layers are formed this way to make the part thicker and stronger.
> 3. The mold and resin layer is then put into a large oven the size of the mold (autoclave) and cured (hardened).
> 4. Higher quality and strength for aerospace part use (such as wing parts or assemblies) can be obtained by using better quality expensive resin and fiber.
> 5. CFRP is common for aerospace use, GFRP is commonly used for boat hulls.
> 6. In Bangladesh there are several GFRP boat builders, there is one called Taratari Shipyard.India

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## Sine Nomine

madokafc said:


> got info from my partner about UK to sold some of their C130J to BD. Ex Afghan theater mostly what they will offered


May be not gonna happen,since ISAF is increasing troops level.


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## Bilal9

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> May be not gonna happen,since ISAF is increasing troops level.



Two C130J is confirmed to be added to defence inventory, for starters. They might end up buying more J units, most probably refurbished.

This is in addition to the C130As already in service.

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## Avicenna

Actually its 4 C-130E in service.

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## Nike

two unit, you want me to mention the reg. number of the said planes?

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## BDforever

1 yak130 training aircraft has crushed in Chittagong, pilots are safe.

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> C130A





Avicenna said:


> Actually its 4 C-130E in service.





madokafc said:


> two unit, you want me to mention the reg. number of the said planes?


4 C 130B in service. Delivered under a $15 million deal.








SIPRI Arms Transfer Database

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## Michael Corleone

Yak-130 serial no 120 crashed in Chittagong today. Pilots ejected safely after steering it off residential areas where all the flight controls failed midflight. Investigation underway.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> If I may offer my humble opinion.
> 
> Producing GFRP or CFRP STRUCTURES need only a few technologies that are neither classified, nor critical.
> 
> 1. You need Carbon fibres or Glass fibres (AKA 'row') woven into GFRP/CFRP 'CLOTH'.
> 2. You will also need two part epoxy resin and hardener mixed in prescribed ratio to make a liquid. You will brush on this liquid into flat laid CFRP OR GFRP cloth DRAPED OVER the mold of the part. Molds have oil type mold release on them so that resin will not stick to the mold. Sometimes GFRP OR CFRP cut fibres (flakes) are sprayed on over the resin to form a layer. Multiple layers are formed this way to make the part thicker and stronger.
> 3. The mold and resin layer is then put into a large oven the size of the mold (autoclave) and cured (hardened).
> 4. Higher quality and strength for aerospace part use (such as wing parts or assemblies) can be obtained by using better quality expensive resin and fiber.
> 5. CFRP is common for aerospace use, GFRP is commonly used for boat hulls.
> 6. In Bangladesh there are several GFRP boat builders, there is one called Taratari Shipyard. They made the boats for Hatirjheel transportation link.



brother, I was actually talking about the chemical process to make the fiber itself.... Cytec, Hexcel, SGL, Toho, Toray, Zoltek, Mitsubishi and Nippon are producers of carbon fiber that I know of.... in 2011, Iran announced that they have invented the process....

https://www.thoughtco.com/carbon-fiber-manufacturers-820398


anyway, the point was not to go into technical details.... rather it was a simple thing that I tried to tell - you don't need to invent the wheel in order to make a car....

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## Avicenna

Avicenna said:


> Actually its 4 C-130E in service.


I'm a bit confused. So they have 4 C-130B. But did they ever recieve any C-130E? or was it an upgrade?

Sorry to hear about the Yak.


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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


>



There is quite a collection of FRP fabricators locally. Most garments industry pressure vessels, acid tanks, dyeing tanks, fish farming aquaculture tanks, constitutional furniture, playground equipment and speedboats are made locally.

What has to be done is have training for higher quality resins and finishing items to start high quality export items in earnest.


Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> brother, I was actually talking about the chemical process to make the fiber itself.... Cytec, Hexcel, SGL, Toho, Toray, Zoltek, Mitsubishi and Nippon are producers of carbon fiber that I know of.... in 2011, Iran announced that they have invented the process....
> 
> https://www.thoughtco.com/carbon-fiber-manufacturers-820398
> 
> 
> anyway, the point was not to go into technical details.... rather it was a simple thing that I tried to tell - you don't need to invent the wheel in order to make a car....



Well yeah. But the quantities we would use may not warrant even the establishing of a small chemical extrusion plant for these fibers. We can get small quantities from anyone, including China.

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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> I'm a bit confused. So they have 4 C-130B. But did they ever recieve any C-130E? or was it an upgrade?
> 
> Sorry to hear about the Yak.


bought C130B, upgraded them to C-130H


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## Avicenna

H? not E?

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> There is quite a collection of FRP fabricators locally. Most garments industry pressure vessels, acid tanks, dyeing tanks, fish farming aquaculture tanks, constitutional furniture, playground equipment and speedboats are made locally.
> 
> What has to be done is have training for higher quality resins and finishing items to start high quality export items in earnest.
> 
> 
> Well yeah. But the quantities we would use may not warrant even the establishing of a small chemical extrusion plant for these fibers. We can get small quantities from anyone, including China.



that's exactly the point, Bhai....
I can source the components or technology or expertise from others if it has no strings attached.... I don't need to produce it to use it as a component for my own produced systems.... that's why I said that we can't delay our aircraft production aims just because we can't yet make all the components.... I would give another example.....

there are some "shushil" who bring up the issue of our inexperience regarding nuclear power as an argument against Rooppur nuclear power plant.... the point is, you can always gradually build your expertise, but that shouldn't delay your decision to start the project.... you can't sit for an exam only after being 100% confident about the results..... 
such delay tactics serve the agenda of colonialists who want to scuttle our strategic projects to keep us subservient....

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## bdslph

*Russian Newest MiG 29 SMT-Testing of air combat!*



BDforever said:


> bought C130B, upgraded them to C-130H





Avicenna said:


> H? not E?



the best way to know what model its ask the pilot of C130 of BAF that is better

the 2 C130 J i guess would given in good price as off the selves 
the brand new C130j will cost 70 millions USD i guess more or less 

will this replace the old c130


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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> *Russian Newest MiG 29 SMT-Testing of air combat!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the best way to know what model its ask the pilot of C130 of BAF that is better
> 
> the 2 C130 J i guess would given in good price as off the selves
> the brand new C130j will cost 70 millions USD i guess more or less
> 
> will this replace the old c130


The existing c-130 are e variants. 
No they'll not replace the old variants but complement them in the fleet. 
C-130 are very durable aircraft... they keep on ticking with maintenance like a corolla.

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## bdslph

did BD AF go to MAKS 2017 to make any purchase

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*

Most probably by this year end সম্ভবত এই বছরের শেষদিকে (November- Decemberনভেম্বর-ডিসেম্বর) মাসে China 1 Billion $চীনের সাথে ১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলারের প্রতিরক্ষা সরঞ্জাম কেনার defence agreement likely to be concludedচুক্তি হবার সম্ভাবনা আছে।

১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলার লোনের আওতায় ১৬ টি 16 X J-10B/FC-20 মাল্টিরোল ফাইটার,১ টি 1 X KJ-200 AEW&C এবং ১ টি 1 X Xian Y-20 হেভি ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান কেনার কথা।






J-10C HAS NOT YET ENTERED PRODUCTION এখনো প্রোডাকশনে যায় নি

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *
BAF বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য 2017-18 ২০১৭-১৮ অর্থবছরে চারটি (৪ টি) 4 X ARMED ARIEL HEAVY আনমেনড এরিয়াল ভেহিকল DRONES (ড্রোন) কেনা হচ্ছে FROM CHINA চীন থেকে।এর জন্য ৮০ কোটি টাকা বরাদ্দ করা হয়েছে।যে দুইটি ড্রোনের মডেল নিয়ে কানাঘুষা চলছে তা হলো চাইনিজ CHINESE CH-4B এবং সবচেয়ে আধুনিক CH-5 UCAV

প্রথমে CH-4B নিয়ে আলোচনা করা যাক-




♦CH-4B UCAV

CH-4B হলো চীনের Rainbow series এর সবচেয়ে বড় UCAV.এই ড্রোনটি মার্কিন যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper ড্রোনের চাইনিজ ভার্সন বলে ধরা হয়।এটি একাধারে নজরদারী এবং লক্ষ্যবস্তুতে হামলা করতে সক্ষম। এই ড্রোনের রেঞ্জ ৩৫০০-৫০০০ কিমি এবং একনাগাড়ে ৩০-৪০ ঘন্টা উড়তে সক্ষম।এই UAV একবারে ২৫০-৩৪৫ কেজি মিসাইল ও বোমা বহনে সক্ষম।মিশর,ইরাক, সৌদিআরব এই UAV ব্যবহার করে।




♦CH-5 UCAV

এটি চীনের নির্মিত সবচেয়ে আধুনিক এবং শক্তিশালী UCAV. এটিকে অস্ত্রের গুদাম বললেও ভুল হবে না।এটি ১০০০ কেজি অস্ত্র এবং গোলাবারুদ বহন করতে সক্ষম।এটি ১০কিমি উপর দিয়ে প্রায় ৬০ ঘন্টা উড়তে সক্ষম।এর রেঞ্জ ১০হাজার কিমি।এটি একসাথে ২৪ টি মিসাইল বহন করতে সক্ষম।

যদিও বাজেট অনুসারে CH-5 UCAV আসার সম্ভাবনা খুব কম।
DUE TO BUDGET LIMITATIONS INDUCTING THIS MODEL WOULD BE DIFFICULT.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
ফোর্সেস গোল Forces Goal 2030২০৩০ এবং বিমানবাহিনীর নিজস্ব BAF Integrated Air Defence System এর আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য দেশের Northern Western and North East উত্তর পুর্ব এবং উত্তর পশ্চিমাঞ্চলে 2 x new active air basesদুইটি নতুন এবং সক্রিয় এয়ারফোর্স বেইস গঠন করা হচ্ছে।

সিলেটের ওসমানী আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর Sylhet and Rajshahi Airports to be upgradedএবং রাজশাহীর শাহ মখদুম বিমানবন্দরকে সংস্কার এবং সম্প্রসারণ করে সেখানে capable for MRCAযুদ্ধবিমান উঠানামার উপযোগী করে গড়ে তোলা হবে।

খুব শীঘ্রই এই সম্পর্কিত কাজ শুরু হবে বলে আশা করা যাচ্ছে।Rajshahi airportরাজশাহী বিমানবন্দর বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ২০০৫ সাল থেকে ব্যবহার করে আসছে কিন্তু সেটা পুর্নাঙ্গ এয়ারবেস নয়।সেখানে সামান্য কয়েকটি PT-6 প্রশিক্ষন বিমান এবং কিছু হেলিকপ্টার আছে।সিলেটে বিমানবাহিনীর একটি C-130E পরিবহন বিমান এবং কয়েকটি হেলিকপ্টার আছে।

এছাড়া দেশের দক্ষিন পশ্চিমাঞ্চলে বিশেষ করে খুলনা অঞ্চলে একটি নতুন আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর করার কথা ছিলো তা বিভিন্ন কারনে পিছানো হয়েছে।খুলনায় "খান জাহান আলী আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর" বানানোর কথা ছিলো।

এছাড়া ঢাকার অদুরে নতুন একটি আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর "বঙ্গবন্ধু আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দর" বানানোর পরিকল্পনা নেয়া হয়েছে।

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## Bengal Tiger 71

As a strategic movement with India,Air base of BAF should be Dhaka, Sylhet, Coxbazar, Jessore, Kuakata, Saiyeedpur, Thakurgaon.


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB added 3 new photos.*

MAKS 2017 তে রাশিয়া তাদের Mi-171sh হেলিকপ্টারের এক অত্যাধুনিক ভার্সন উন্মুক্ত করেছে।রাশিয়ান বিমান নির্মান সংস্থা Rostec তাদের এই নতুন Mi-171sh-VN Special Mission Helicopter প্রদর্শন করে।

এতে বেশ কিছু নতুন এবং উন্নত ফিচার যুক্ত করা হয়েছে আর অস্ত্রসস্ত্রও উন্নত করা হয়েছে।

এতে ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে Composite main rotor blade এবং "X" শেইপ এন্টি টর্ক প্রোপেলার। হেলিকপ্টারের দিকে নিক্ষেপিত মিসাইল জ্যাম করার জন্য এতে ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে "President S defence system" যা এর দিকে নিক্ষেপিত মিসাইলের ওয়ারহেড জ্যাম করে দিতে সক্ষম।

ককপিট এবং কার্গো কম্পার্টমেন্টে আছে Kevlar flooring. যা পাইলট এবং ক্রুদের সুরক্ষা দিবে।

সবচেয়ে অসাধারণ হলো এর অস্ত্রব্যবস্থা।এতে আছে অত্যাধুনিক গাইডেড সিস্টেম যার ফলে এই হেলিকপ্টার বিভিন্ন গাইডেড মিসাইল ও বোমা বহন করতে সক্ষম। এটি ৪ হাজার কেজি পেলোড নিতে পারে।হেলিকপ্টারের দরজায় দুটি 12.7mm Kord মেশিনগান এবং ট্রাসে আরো ২ টি মেশিনগান নিতে পারে।এটি ৮ টি Ataka guided missile, ২ টি Gsh-23mm গানসহ UPK-23-250 gun pods বহন করতে পারে।সাথে আছে ২ টি OFAB-250-270 এরিয়াল বোমা।

এতে আছে দুইটি chin-mounted hyrostabilised platforms যা optoelectronic systems এর জন্য ব্যবহৃত হবে।এছাড়া আরো আছে FLIR system, একটি infrared searchlight এবং glass cockpit suitable for night vision googles.

*এটি বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং সেনাবাহিনীর জন্য best অপশন হবে বলে আমরা মনে করি।*

লিংক-http://www.airrecognition.com/…/3638-new-mi-171sh-vn-specia…










...এটা মাল্টিপারপাস হেলিকপ্টার।
আমাদের এট্যাক হেলিকপ্টার এখনো অর্ডার করে নি

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## Avicenna

Digitized camo? interesting....

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## bdslph

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB added 3 new photos.*
> 
> MAKS 2017 তে রাশিয়া তাদের Mi-171sh হেলিকপ্টারের এক অত্যাধুনিক ভার্সন উন্মুক্ত করেছে।রাশিয়ান বিমান নির্মান সংস্থা Rostec তাদের এই নতুন Mi-171sh-VN Special Mission Helicopter প্রদর্শন করে।
> 
> এতে বেশ কিছু নতুন এবং উন্নত ফিচার যুক্ত করা হয়েছে আর অস্ত্রসস্ত্রও উন্নত করা হয়েছে।
> 
> এতে ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে Composite main rotor blade এবং "X" শেইপ এন্টি টর্ক প্রোপেলার। হেলিকপ্টারের দিকে নিক্ষেপিত মিসাইল জ্যাম করার জন্য এতে ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে "President S defence system" যা এর দিকে নিক্ষেপিত মিসাইলের ওয়ারহেড জ্যাম করে দিতে সক্ষম।
> 
> ককপিট এবং কার্গো কম্পার্টমেন্টে আছে Kevlar flooring. যা পাইলট এবং ক্রুদের সুরক্ষা দিবে।
> 
> সবচেয়ে অসাধারণ হলো এর অস্ত্রব্যবস্থা।এতে আছে অত্যাধুনিক গাইডেড সিস্টেম যার ফলে এই হেলিকপ্টার বিভিন্ন গাইডেড মিসাইল ও বোমা বহন করতে সক্ষম। এটি ৪ হাজার কেজি পেলোড নিতে পারে।হেলিকপ্টারের দরজায় দুটি 12.7mm Kord মেশিনগান এবং ট্রাসে আরো ২ টি মেশিনগান নিতে পারে।এটি ৮ টি Ataka guided missile, ২ টি Gsh-23mm গানসহ UPK-23-250 gun pods বহন করতে পারে।সাথে আছে ২ টি OFAB-250-270 এরিয়াল বোমা।
> 
> এতে আছে দুইটি chin-mounted hyrostabilised platforms যা optoelectronic systems এর জন্য ব্যবহৃত হবে।এছাড়া আরো আছে FLIR system, একটি infrared searchlight এবং glass cockpit suitable for night vision googles.
> 
> *এটি বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং সেনাবাহিনীর জন্য best অপশন হবে বলে আমরা মনে করি।*
> 
> লিংক-http://www.airrecognition.com/…/3638-new-mi-171sh-vn-specia…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...এটা মাল্টিপারপাস হেলিকপ্টার।
> আমাদের এট্যাক হেলিকপ্টার এখনো অর্ডার করে নি



that is one of the latest version of mi17 helicopter 
the chinese are also buying the other version also latest model 

did we strike any deal on mak2017 for fighter

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## Incog_nito

I think J-10, MiG-29s, and may be some used M-2000s or F-16s will suit them best.

I think BD will be the first launch customer of J-10B.

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## Michael Corleone

Oxair Online said:


> I think J-10, MiG-29s, and may be some used M-2000s or F-16s will suit them best.
> 
> I think BD will be the first launch customer of J-10B.


Well you're right we will get j-10 but we aren't getting any mirage or f-16...

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## Avicenna

No Western fighters unfortunately. 

BAF either can't afford them as in European options, or won't be permitted to get them as in US platforms, not to mention no subsidies.

So Russian or Chinese it will have to be.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> won't be permitted to get them as in US platforms


From where do you get these gems


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## Banglar Bir

Avicenna said:


> No Western fighters unfortunately.
> BAF either can't afford them as in European options, or won't be permitted to get them as in US platforms, not to mention no subsidies.
> *So Russian or Chinese it will have to be*.


To many strings attached to Western platforms + they control the KILL SWITCH, Freedom with Chinese equipment's with ensured spares + Ordinances.

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *

এই ছবি গুলো যথাসম্ভব ২০১৩ সালের। যখন বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী তাদের মিগ -২৯ বিমান ইউক্রেন এ পাঠায় ওভারহোলিং করার জন্য।

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> From where do you get these gems



From the perspective of a Bengali American citizen who is well informed in how likely such an approval of sales would be to Bangladesh. Especially in the current geopolitical context regarding China.

So again, no US platforms....

Also, you must be dreaming if you think the US will release AMRAAMS to Bangladesh.

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## Banglar Bir

* চীন দিচ্ছে ১বিলিয়ন ডলারের অস্ত্র | ভারতকে চীনের জবাব | Bangladesh-China J-10B Jet Y-20 Deal*
*



*

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## Michael Corleone

BANGLAR BIR said:


> To many strings attached to Western platforms + they control the KILL SWITCH, Freedom with Chinese equipment's with ensured spares + Ordinances.
> 
> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *
> 
> এই ছবি গুলো যথাসম্ভব ২০১৩ সালের। যখন বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী তাদের মিগ -২৯ বিমান ইউক্রেন এ পাঠায় ওভারহোলিং করার জন্য।


Fun fact this airport which is in boryspil near Kiev is one of the smallest airport I've been in. But the only one with more number of pretty police officers I've ever seen.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*

BAF Floats Tender বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী আবার নতুন দরপত্র ছেড়েছে......

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের বহরে থাকা K-8w জেট প্রশিক্ষন বিমান,PT-6 বেসিক প্রশিক্ষন বিমান এবং F-7BG যুদ্ধবিমানের ইঞ্জিনের জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করেছে।




♦বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের K-8w বিমানের জন্য ২ টি 2X AL-25TLK ইঞ্জিনের জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করেছে।

লিংক-http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1255.pdf




♦বিমানবাহিনী তাদের PT-6 বেসিক ট্রেইনার বিমানের জন্য ৮ টি 8 X HS-6A ইঞ্জিন কেনার দরপত্র ডেকেছে।

লিংক-http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1254.pdf




♦বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের F-7BG যুদ্ধবিমানের জন্য ৪ টি 4 X WP-13F ইঞ্জিন কেনার দরপত্র আহবান করেছে।

লিংক-http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1256.pdf

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## bdslph

we have Y20 one plane but in future i am sure we will add more 1 or 2 
this is a awesome plane it will do all the heavy duty work and good enough for us 
the J10b is we are the launch customer and i am happy about it 

j10c still not in production but i would love to see it in future in BAF , i think we will get that version also

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## 帅的一匹

bdslph said:


> we have Y20 one plane but in future i am sure we will add more 1 or 2
> this is a awesome plane it will do all the heavy duty work and good enough for us
> the J10b is we are the launch customer and i am happy about it
> 
> j10c still not in production but i would love to see it in future in BAF , i think we will get that version also


I think you trying to say J10D my brother, J10c had entered into service two years ago.



Avicenna said:


> From the perspective of a Bengali American citizen who is well informed in how likely such an approval of sales would be to Bangladesh. Especially in the current geopolitical context regarding China.
> 
> So again, no US platforms....
> 
> Also, you must be dreaming if you think the US will release AMRAAMS to Bangladesh.


What's the problem between BD and USA?

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## Avicenna

wanglaokan said:


> I think you trying to say J10D my brother, J10c had entered into service two years ago.
> 
> 
> What's the problem between BD and USA?



There isn't any problem at all between BD and US. The US is just very selective to who it sells high performance fighters. Not to mention BVR capable missiles or other top line gear. 

There's no reason for the US to allow Bangladesh to obtain any US made fighters.

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## 帅的一匹

Avicenna said:


> There isn't any problem at all between BD and US. The US is just very selective to who it sells high performance fighters. Not to mention BVR capable missiles or other top line gear.
> 
> There's no reason for the US to allow Bangladesh to obtain any US made fighters.


It's because USA doesn't have visions.


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## Avicenna

To be honest, I can't see any strategic importance Bangladesh offers the US. There's no imperative for the US to either allow Bangladesh to buy or transfer to Bangladesh any US made fighters. 

On the other hand, C-130 as well as T-37 have been supplied or transferred as EDA. Not to mention the Hamiltons for the navy.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> To be honest, I can't see any strategic importance Bangladesh offers the US. There's no imperative for the US to either allow Bangladesh to buy or transfer to Bangladesh any US made fighters.
> 
> On the other hand, C-130 as well as T-37 have been supplied or transferred as EDA. Not to mention the Hamiltons for the navy.


That's why they've wanted base in the country to house an aircraft carrier fleet... to thwart Chinese influence.

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## Avicenna

When was that?


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> To be honest, I can't see any strategic importance Bangladesh offers the US. There's no imperative for the US to either allow Bangladesh to buy or transfer to Bangladesh any US made fighters.
> 
> On the other hand, C-130 as well as T-37 have been supplied or transferred as EDA. Not to mention the Hamiltons for the navy.



Bangladesh can become more strategic than Taiwan or Cuba it it wants to. But we are smarter than that.
Bangladesh can buy F-16 if it wants to. F-16 just dont serve our own strategic thinking.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Bangladesh can become more strategic than Taiwan or Cuba it it wants to. But we are smarter than that.
> Bangladesh can buy F-16 if it wants to. F-16 just dont serve our own strategic thinking.


What deluded world do you live in man?


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> What deluded world do you live in man?


How old are yu kid?


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## Avicenna

Old enough.

The question is how old r YOU?

Or rather do you even know what your taking about?


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Old enough.
> 
> The question is how old r YOU?
> 
> Or rather do you even know what your taking about?



I live in this country. I lived in USA. I had witnessed a lot of things that you did not except some newspaper.
In 1973 BD acquired Mig-21 the most advanced fighter jets of that time. 
BD played strategic, so it was respected as strategic.
If you play dummy yu will be treated as dummy. Now look into the mirror and tell me what you see.


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## Avicenna

A handsome devil.

I was born in Bangladesh but was raised in the US since I was a small child.

In terms of being a dummy, you have no idea how highly educated I am either by profession or my knowledge and interest in the things I discuss on PDF.

So please, let's discuss the points you raised in the most recent of one of your ridiculous posts.

Bangladesh can not buy F-16s.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> A handsome devil.
> 
> I was born in Bangladesh but was raised in the US since I was a small child.
> 
> In terms of being a dummy, you have no idea how highly educated I am either by profession or my knowledge and interest in the things I discuss on PDF.
> 
> So please, let's discuss the points you raised in the most recent of one of your ridiculous posts.
> 
> Bangladesh can not buy F-16s.


Well, even if Bangladesh could. F-16s don't serve people any purpose anymore. America wouldn't be so willing to sell off everything to India if it hadn't met its end of development cycle or already had not met its performance threshold...
Ps. US is not a worthwhile option anymore... European and eastern options are far better with less cost.

Ps. Bangladesh didn't buy mig 21. They were gifted a squadron by then Soviet Union. Bangladesh also got type 59 tanks as gifts from Egypt after the war. We didn't buy much until the mid 80s.


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## Banglar Bir

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Ps. Bangladesh didn't buy mig 21. They were gifted a squadron by then Soviet Union.


These Mig-21, AN -24/ 26, Mi-8 and radar equipment's were NOT gifted, rather these were purchased under BARTER trade, formally an arrangement between WARSAW Pact countries.

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## Michael Corleone

BANGLAR BIR said:


> These Mig-21, AN -24/ 26, Mi-8 and radar equipment's were NOT gifted, rather these were purchased under BARTER trade, formally an arrangement between WARSAW Pact countries.


What did we have to provide in the BARTER trade? Jute or rice? Because afaik we were hit by a fsmine after the war!..?

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## Avicenna

The problem with US fighter aircraft is there are always political strings attached in some way or another. But in terms of actual military capability, you can't beat American hardware. It's best in the world.

And to this day, I would take a late model F-16 over anything else Russian or Chinese.

This of course does not include the J-20 which is not appropriate or available to Bangladesh.

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## Avicenna

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Well, even if Bangladesh could. F-16s don't serve people any purpose anymore. America wouldn't be so willing to sell off everything to India if it hadn't met its end of development cycle or already had not met its performance threshold...
> Ps. US is not a worthwhile option anymore... European and eastern options are far better with less cost.
> 
> Ps. Bangladesh didn't buy mig 21. They were gifted a squadron by then Soviet Union. Bangladesh also got type 59 tanks as gifts from Egypt after the war. We didn't buy much until the mid 80s.



European options are WAY more expensive than American ones. 

And Russian and Chinese ones are qualitatively inferior.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> European options are WAY more expensive than American ones.
> 
> And Russian and Chinese ones are qualitatively inferior.




Chinese airplanes like J-10C are inferior than latest F-16s?

You have no evidence to make that assertion at all.


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## Avicenna

Yea i don't other than history and track record.

But in addition to individual aircraft is the integration and sharing of info between systems as well as training.

In short, a lot of variables that affect the outcome of any engagement.

We on the outside have uber superficial knowlege of these matters based on "specs".

But at the eyeball test level, if I had a choice, I would go American every single time.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> European options are WAY more expensive than American ones.
> 
> And Russian and Chinese ones are qualitatively inferior.


European options like Rafale or eurofigjter are more expensive but they're equal to fifth gen or the latest f-15 developments etc which have been slayed at a more higher price for purchase. 
Russian systems are superior WVR. BVR they still lack behind the west.... It's stupid to dismiss rissian aircrafts as qualitatively interior. They're like the over engineered Mercedes from the 60s and 80s. Extremely reliable. (except mig 29 lol)

Chinese are lacking behind but the tech they're currently developing are some of the best with j-10c slated by Western observers to be superior to f-16


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## Avicenna

Lol your comparing Rafale and Eurofighter to the F-15. How about the F-35? Forget about the F-22 since its not exportable.

Russian aircraft are reliable? Says who?

Chinese systems are new, unproven, and barely completely Chinese. 

Post-WW2, American made hardware has DOMINATED the skies.


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Chinese are lacking behind but the tech they're currently developing are some of the best with j-10c slated by Western observers to be superior to f-16



Even Eurofighter and Rafale may have no real advantage over the J-10C that has an AESA radar, upgraded 137kN engine and very long range AAMs with 200km range.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Even Eurofighter and Rafale may have no real advantage over the J-10C that has an AESA radar, upgraded 137kN engine and very long range AAMs with 200km range.



I hope that is the case. 

Time will tell.

Options are good for nations who don't have US or European options.


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## Banglar Bir

Mohammed Khaled said:


> What did we have to provide in the BARTER trade? Jute or rice? Because afaik we were hit by a famine after the war!..?


Agro products, remember how the prices of essential edibles shot up, during those years.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Even Eurofighter and Rafale may have no real advantage over the J-10C that has an AESA radar, upgraded 137kN engine and very long range AAMs with 200km range.


Yes. As predicted by Western sources.



Avicenna said:


> Lol your comparing Rafale and Eurofighter to the F-15. How about the F-35? Forget about the F-22 since its not exportable.
> 
> Russian aircraft are reliable? Says who?
> 
> Chinese systems are new, unproven, and barely completely Chinese.
> 
> Post-WW2, American made hardware has DOMINATED the skies.


F-15 silent eagle... I would even give it an edge over Rafale or eurofigther at some instances. 

Ask the Israelis about Russian aircrafts. 

That I will agree about the Chinese but then hear me out with my next answer. 

American made hardware were/are barely American... Evolutionary design development carried over by German scientist from operation paperclip. Even many french or British weapons of the past had German scientist behind its development. Can't take about present day.


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## Avicenna

Yea you are factually correct about German influence and origin over many post-WW2 achievements, both in the West and Soviet Union.

However, the US came up with the F-86, F-4, F-14,15,16,18, F-22, and now F-35. (as well as many other lesser known designs)

And for that matter, B-52, B-1, and B-2 with the B-21 under development.

Look at the kill ratios though all the conflicts between US made and non US made aircraft.

Granted there are ALOT of variable other than hardware, but except for some portions of Vietnam, its overwhelmingly in favor of the US made equipment.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Yea you are factually correct about German influence and origin over many post-WW2 achievements, both in the West and Soviet Union.
> 
> However, the US came up with the F-86, F-4, F-14,15,16,18, F-22, and now F-35. (as well as many other lesser known designs)
> 
> And for that matter, B-52, B-1, and B-2 with the B-21 under development.
> 
> Look at the kill ratios though all the conflicts between US made and non US made aircraft.
> 
> Granted there are ALOT of variable other than hardware, but except for some portions of Vietnam, its overwhelmingly in favor of the US made equipment.


Most US aircraft victories post 60s are against Arab nations.... Some of the biggest noobs...

B1 had German engineers research and development work behind it. Germans knew more of flying wing than any other nation. 

I guess one factor that helped US pull an edge over Soviet Union is US's willingness to employ people of other ethinicity into their defence industries. For ex. Abdus sattars research on lightweught alloys have helped in development of f-14, f-15, f-16... And other fighters after that. Meanwhile Soviet union created hidden cities and closed them off from the world and engineers etc would only be employed from the residents of those cities. For ex Dnipropetrovsk where I love now is home to yuzhmash which developed Satan ICBM. Yuzhmash is highly underfunded company atm and now outsources work and builts rockets and other vehicles for nasa on budget.

So yeah it's Soviet unions iron curtain that ultimately led to this is crumbling.


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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> B1 had German engineers research and development work behind it. Germans knew more of flying wing than any other nation.



If you are talking about flying wing then maybe you're talking about the B-2, not the B-1 which is a conventional aircraft.

The predecessor of the B-2 flying wing stealth bomber that inspired the design were several flying wings developed much earlier and which started testing at MUROC or Edwards AFB in 1947, developed not far from where I live now. 

Many propulsion options were tried...(experimental designation for turbine engine driven prop flying wing was XB-35, and RB-49/YRB-49 for flying wings powered with turbojets). German scientists were not even on the scene in the US at the time - however Germans did develop their own flying wing bomber at the same time.

This is what they looked like back in the day in 1949...

XB-35






YB-49











German experimental WWII Flying Wing bomber Horten 229, a much, much smaller design. Never flown.





B2





And here's the B-1B Lancer with wings swept full forward, a more conventional design.

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> If you are talking about flying wing then maybe you're talking about the B-2, not the B-1 which is a conventional aircraft.
> 
> The predecessor of the B-2 flying wing stealth bomber that inspired the design were several flying wings developed much earlier and which started testing at MUROC or Edwards AFB in 1947, developed not far from where I live now.
> 
> Many propulsion options were tried...(experimental designation for turbine engine driven prop flying wing was XB-35, and RB-49/YRB-49 for flying wings powered with turbojets). German scientists were not even on the scene in the US at the time - however Germans did develop their own flying wing bomber at the same time.
> 
> This is what they looked like back in the day in 1949...
> 
> XB-35
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YB-49
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German experimental WWII Flying Wing bomber Horten 229, a much, much smaller design. Never flown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's the B-1B Lancer with wings swept full forward, a more conventional design.




Nothing beats the TU-95 bear.
One of the engineering marble.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Nothing beats the TU-95 bear.
> One of the engineering marble.



That engine noise is menacing!


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Most US aircraft victories post 60s are against Arab nations.... Some of the biggest noobs...
> 
> B1 had German engineers research and development work behind it. Germans knew more of flying wing than any other nation.
> 
> I guess one factor that helped US pull an edge over Soviet Union is US's willingness to employ people of other ethinicity into their defence industries. For ex. Abdus sattars research on lightweught alloys have helped in development of f-14, f-15, f-16... And other fighters after that. Meanwhile Soviet union created hidden cities and closed them off from the world and engineers etc would only be employed from the residents of those cities. For ex Dnipropetrovsk where I love now is home to yuzhmash which developed Satan ICBM. Yuzhmash is highly underfunded company atm and now outsources work and builts rockets and other vehicles for nasa on budget.
> 
> So yeah it's Soviet unions iron curtain that ultimately led to this is crumbling.



Maybe spending 12-14% of GDP on defence also had something to do with it?

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## Anubis

Mohammed Khaled said:


> What did we have to provide in the BARTER trade? Jute or rice? Because afaik we were hit by a fsmine after the war!..?


We gave them hope for a communist satellite...almost inside India.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Maybe spending 12-14% of GDP on defence also had something to do with it?


Soviets spent more than the west. But corruption within killed them.



Bilal9 said:


> If you are talking about flying wing then maybe you're talking about the B-2, not the B-1 which is a conventional aircraft.
> 
> The predecessor of the B-2 flying wing stealth bomber that inspired the design were several flying wings developed much earlier and which started testing at MUROC or Edwards AFB in 1947, developed not far from where I live now.
> 
> Many propulsion options were tried...(experimental designation for turbine engine driven prop flying wing was XB-35, and RB-49/YRB-49 for flying wings powered with turbojets). German scientists were not even on the scene in the US at the time - however Germans did develop their own flying wing bomber at the same time.
> 
> This is what they looked like back in the day in 1949...
> 
> XB-35
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YB-49
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German experimental WWII Flying Wing bomber Horten 229, a much, much smaller design. Never flown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's the B-1B Lancer with wings swept full forward, a more conventional design.


Horten 229 did fly once. Was stored away due to budgetary restraints. 
I'm sorry my bad. It's B2. 
All the American research was done by American engineer and aviator. Later his work and Horten brothers research helped in B2 development. Horten's charcoal painted skin inspired development of new paint material used in b2, f22 and f-35 although the perfect forms of those paints are applied on b2 and f-35. Chemical composition varies and are classified.

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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Soviets spent more than the west. But corruption within killed them.
> 
> 
> .



Any country that spent 12-14% of GDP on defence for 4 decades would collapse economically, corruption or no corruption. As a comparison US average was around 6% in the same period.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Any country that spent 12-14% of GDP on defence for 4 decades would collapse economically, corruption or no corruption. As a comparison US average was around 6% in the same period.


But US had a way larger economy and 6% of their spending was not far behind the soviets.


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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> Nothing beats the TU-95 bear.
> One of the engineering marble.



The Tu-95 was developed from the Tu-4 'Bull' which was a B-29 reverse copy ordered by Stalin. 

http://www.moninoaviation.com/40a.html

Tu-4 like the B-29 had straight wings and radial engines. 

Tu-95 introduced swept wings and huge contra-rotating air-screws (props) driven by massively powerful turboprops. Considered a technical marvel even today. Given right conditions, the Tu-95 can approach very high subsonic speeds which is amazing for a prop-powered bomber.


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## bdslph

I WAS GOING TO ASK IN ARMY FORUM AS ITS POSTED THERE 
WELL WHY IS THERE NO NEWS OF SU30 SME OR MIG35 OR SU35 OR SU37 
IT WOULD BE IN THE SAME DEAL YEAH


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## Bilal9

A lot of Soviet fighters back in the day (including very early MiG and Sukhoi designs) benefited from German WWII research and resident German scientists' work in Russia itself post-war on jet aircraft. 

That - alongwith the British 'mistake' of exporting the then new whittle turbojet powerplant to Russia, which the Russians copied immediately, helped the Russians become the forerunners of jet fighter development alongwith the west.

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## BanglarBagh

bdslph said:


> I WAS GOING TO ASK IN ARMY FORUM AS ITS POSTED THERE
> WELL WHY IS THERE NO NEWS OF SU30 SME OR MIG35 OR SU35 OR SU37
> IT WOULD BE IN THE SAME DEAL YEAH



I don't think it will be in the same deal that is rumored to happen when Medvedev arrives. The deal with medvedev is assumed to be another $1B credit line to purchase different equipment for the Army mainly.
As for the 8+4 MRCA, I think BAF will purchase those using the $500M credit line from India. But, I'm also confused about one thing "why has there been no news on this?". Su-30SME was supposedly confirmed(well some may argue about valid source on that). Still there should be some news about the MRCA as BAF itself floated a tender!!!
Can anyone shed some more light on this issue?


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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> I don't think it will be in the same deal that is rumored to happen when Medvedev arrives. The deal with medvedev is assumed to be another $1B credit line to purchase different equipment for the Army mainly.
> As for the 8+4 MRCA, I think BAF will purchase those using the $500M credit line from India. But, I'm also confused about one thing "why has there been no news on this?". Su-30SME was supposedly confirmed(well some may argue about valid source on that). Still there should be some news about the MRCA as BAF itself floated a tender!!!
> Can anyone shed some more light on this issue?


Who knows maybe it has been ordered but not announced publicly yet... maybe they ordered 12 altogether and want to play it quiet?


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
3 hrs · 




♦Good News From BAF



♦

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের বহরে থাকা প্রায় nearly all Aircrafts সব বিমানের এভিয়োনিক্স এবং স্পেয়ার পার্টসের BAF hasfloated tender for Avionics and Spares for জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করেছে।

দরপত্রে যেসব যুদ্ধবিমান,পরিবহন বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টারের উল্লেখ আছে তা হলো-




♦Fighter-
MiG-29B



♦Fighter Trainer-
Yak-130,K-8w




♦Trainer
PT-6




♦Transport
LET-410 Turbolet, C-130B Hercules




♦Helicopters
Mi-17/171/171sh series, Bell-212, AW-139

এ সবগুলো বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টারের এভিয়োনিক্স এবং স্পেয়ার পার্টসের জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করা হয়েছে।







Mohammed Khaled said:


> Who knows maybe it has been ordered but not announced publicly yet... maybe they ordered 12 altogether and want to play it quiet?


Playing it quiet from whom, its on Indian loans?

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## Michael Corleone

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 3 hrs ·
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Good News From BAF
> 
> 
> 
> ♦
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের বহরে থাকা প্রায় nearly all Aircrafts সব বিমানের এভিয়োনিক্স এবং স্পেয়ার পার্টসের BAF hasfloated tender for Avionics and Spares for জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করেছে।
> 
> দরপত্রে যেসব যুদ্ধবিমান,পরিবহন বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টারের উল্লেখ আছে তা হলো-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Fighter-
> MiG-29B
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Fighter Trainer-
> Yak-130,K-8w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Trainer
> PT-6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Transport
> LET-410 Turbolet, C-130B Hercules
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Helicopters
> Mi-17/171/171sh series, Bell-212, AW-139
> 
> এ সবগুলো বিমান ও হেলিকপ্টারের এভিয়োনিক্স এবং স্পেয়ার পার্টসের জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করা হয়েছে।
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Playing it quiet from whom, its on Indian loans?


No but they keep questioning our decisions, maybe to avoid any explanations altogether.


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## Avicenna

I was looking at some BAF F-7BGI pics. I have to say its a really pretty airplane. Especially in the two-tone gray.

Does anybody have cockpit pics of the BGI?


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## bluesky

BanglarBagh said:


> As for the 8+4 MRCA, I think BAF will purchase those using the* $500M credit line from India*.


I thought the Indian line of credit is for buying made in India military products whatever these may be.


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## BanglarBagh

bluesky said:


> I thought the Indian line of credit is for buying made in India military products whatever these may be.



nope! BD military top brass rejected procurement of any Indian military products, AFAIK!!!

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## Species

BanglarBagh said:


> I don't think it will be in the same deal that is rumored to happen when Medvedev arrives. The deal with medvedev is assumed to be another $1B credit line to purchase different equipment for the Army mainly.
> As for the 8+4 MRCA, I think BAF will purchase those using the $500M credit line from India. But, I'm also confused about one thing "why has there been no news on this?". Su-30SME was supposedly confirmed(well some may argue about valid source on that). Still there should be some news about the MRCA as BAF itself floated a tender!!!
> Can anyone shed some more light on this issue?



Are you sure? Because what I've heard, the Su-30SMEs will be purchased with our own money while the Indian loan will be used to purchase some Mig-35s to complete the Mig squadron according to some rumours.


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## BanglarBagh

Species said:


> Are you sure? Because what I've heard, the Su-30SMEs will be purchased with our own money while the Indian loan will be used to purchase some Mig-35s to complete the Mig squadron according to some rumours.



well tbh I'm not sure about it, since it's just rumors and assumptions. but what puzzles me more is the news of procuring mig-35 you just mentioned! are you sure about this?!!
because when the rumor of $1B with China was floating around almost everyone of us in the forum were talking about the su-30sme and j-10b combination that was supposed to have been selected for BAF. mig-35 was completely out of the picture AFAIR!!
and IMO I think migs are a bad choice since mig-29 has a terrible track record for maintenance issues and mig-35 an evolution of the earlier may not be any better in this particular area. although the mig-35 is a far better aircraft compared to mig-29 as the specs suggest!!!


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## Species

BanglarBagh said:


> well tbh I'm not sure about it, since it's just rumors and assumptions. but what puzzles me more is the news of procuring mig-35 you just mentioned! are you sure about this?!!
> because when the rumor of $1B with China was floating around almost everyone of us in the forum were talking about the su-30sme and j-10b combination that was supposed to have been selected for BAF. mig-35 was completely out of the picture AFAIR!!
> and IMO I think migs are a bad choice since mig-29 has a terrible track record for maintenance issues and mig-35 an evolution of the earlier may not be any better in this particular area. although the mig-35 is a far better aircraft compared to mig-29 as the specs suggest!!!



J-10Bs are confirmed and it's a separate deal. So is Su-30SME. The Mig-35 part is still a rumour as we haven't heard anything about how the Indian loan will be utilized.


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## BanglarBagh

Species said:


> J-10Bs are confirmed and it's a separate deal. So is Su-30SME. The Mig-35 part is still a rumour as we haven't heard anything about how the Indian loan will be utilized.



Agreed on the j-10b and the su-30sme. 
but my question is, why go for mig-35 when we already chose the earlier two platforms. just for the sake of completing the mig-29 squadron the eight of which have already spent more than half of their lifespan is not a very good idea!
IMO, after building up on the j-10b and su-30sme platforms BAF should go for 5th gen. platforms that will be on offer in the future from China.

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## UKBengali

BanglarBagh said:


> Agreed on the j-10b and the su-30sme.
> but my question is, why go for mig-35 when we already chose the earlier two platforms. just for the sake of completing the mig-29 squadron the eight of which have already spent more than half of their lifespan is not a very good idea!
> IMO, after building up on the j-10b and su-30sme platforms BAF should go for 5th gen. platforms that will be on offer in the future from China.



I cannot see the future BAF fleet having any room for Mig-29. Having too many types is a logistics nightmare.

Expect J-10B, SU-30SME and J-31s flying in BAF in the future

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## BanglarBagh

UKBengali said:


> I cannot see the future BAF fleet having any room for Mig-29. Having too many types is a logistics nightmare.
> 
> Expect J-10B, SU-30SME and J-31s flying in BAF in the future



About the j-31, I saw in Chinese forums that the development of the project is somewhat uneasy now! do you have any info on this?!!


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## Species

BanglarBagh said:


> Agreed on the j-10b and the su-30sme.
> but my question is, why go for mig-35 when we already chose the earlier two platforms. just for the sake of completing the mig-29 squadron the eight of which have already spent more than half of their lifespan is not a very good idea!
> IMO, after building up on the j-10b and su-30sme platforms BAF should go for 5th gen. platforms that will be on offer in the future from China.



Again, it's just a rumour. I believe the speculation came from Russia's offer to both Bangladesh and India for selling Mig 35s.


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## UKBengali

BanglarBagh said:


> About the j-31, I saw in Chinese forums that the development of the project is somewhat uneasy now! do you have any info on this?!!




Sorry, I do not.

I would be very surprised if the J-31 is not ready for export by the mid 2020s at the latest.


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *




♦Bad News



♦

বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর একটি Bangladesh Navies Dornior DO-228NG বিমান কিছুক্ষন আগে চট্টগ্রাম বিমানবন্দরে ল্যান্ড during landing skidded off the runwayকরার সময়ে ছিটকে পড়েছে।নিয়মিত উড্ডয়নের অংশ হিসেবে উড়ার পর অবতরনের সময়ে রানওয়ে পিচ্ছিল এবং ভেজা থাকায় তা ছিটকে রানওয়ের পাশে থেমে যায়।

Pilot and crew are safeপাইলট এবং ক্রু নিরাপদে আছেন।বিমানের কোন ক্ষতি হয় নি Aircraft not damaged।খুব শীঘ্রই তা আবার অপারেশনাল হবে।
লিংক-http://www.dhakatribune.com/…/chittagong-airport-nair-forc…/


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## Banglar Bir

Apologies, posted in the wrong thread.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

UKBengali said:


> Sorry, I do not.
> 
> I would be very surprised if the J-31 is not ready for export by the mid 2020s at the latest.



i think now BAF should go for SU30 SME at least 2 sqd & wait for 5 generation fleet of China j31. all countries are going to modernize their air fleet with 5 generation aircraft.so now su30 & next 5 gen. great combination.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh* 




Bangladesh Air force has invited tenders for বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের overhauling of engines of Antonov An-32 বিমানের ইঞ্জিন ওভারহোলিং করার জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করেছে।এই Antonov An-32 was purchased in 1987 বিমান ১৯৮৭ সালে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীতে যুক্ত হয় এবং ধারনা করা হচ্ছে by 2022-23 these could be replaced by Italian C-27J Spartan or Antonov An-132 দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে।


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## Banglar Bir

*Money to be returned: Bangladesh Air Force's One Yak-130 Crashed |*




Published on Jul 31, 2017
A Russian made Yak-130 of Bangladesh Air Force has been crashed due to technical faults in Chittagong district’s Lohagora area in 11th July. BAF formed up an investigation team who are currently probing the incident.

Later Russia also provided their technical assistances to investigate the crash properly. Result of the investigation will come out soon.

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## Bilal9

BANGLAR BIR said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air force has invited tenders for বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের overhauling of engines of Antonov An-32 বিমানের ইঞ্জিন ওভারহোলিং করার জন্য দরপত্র আহ্বান করেছে।এই Antonov An-32 was purchased in 1987 বিমান ১৯৮৭ সালে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীতে যুক্ত হয় এবং ধারনা করা হচ্ছে by 2022-23 these could be replaced by Italian C-27J Spartan or Antonov An-132 দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে।



AN-132 first flight...earlier this year.

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## bdslph

Bilal9 said:


> AN-132 first flight...earlier this year.



an 132 is a good palne to replace an32 in BAF but i think we are going for the C27 J

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> AN-132 first flight...earlier this year.


the whole manufactring is to be done in saudi arabia.... they bought antonov's plant to produce this to boost their aviation production capacity.

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## Banglar Bir

Defense Update Bangladesh
Published on Aug 12, 2017
To fulfill the needs of an advanced jet trainer requirement of BAF Government of Bangladesh bought 16 Russian Yakovlev built Yak-130 for the country’s air force. This year BAF also ordered 14 more Yak trainer jets.

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*

ছবিটি কিন্তু বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর this picture is not BAF's C-130B না!!!

এটি South Korean Air Force দক্ষিন কোরিয়ান বিমানবাহিনীর C-130J Super Hercules. একটা জিনিস লক্ষ্য করলে হয়তো বুঝবেন যে দক্ষিন কোরিয়ান C-130J এবং আমাদের and our C-130B camouflage are the sameএর ক্যামোফ্লাজ একই।

আশা করা যায় আমাদের আপকামিং C-130J Super Hercules এও একই ক্যামোফ্লাজ ইউজ করা হবে।

(কমেন্টে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর C-130B এর ছবি দেয়া হলো।আপনারাই বুঝতে পারবেন যে ক্যামোফ্লাজ বলতে গেলে একই)





Lockheed C-130B Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force...

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য যুক্তরাজ্য থেকে কেনা ২ টি C-130J Super Hercules গুলো by 2019 ২০১৯ সালে দেশে আসবে বলে জানা গেছে। এই বিশাল পরিবহন বিমান দুইটি ঢাকার তেজগাঁও এর Tezgaon stationed at BAF Base Basher"বাশার এয়ারফোর্স বেইস" এ রাখা হবে।এর জন্য বিমানবন্দরের for which work will commence shortly সংস্কার এবং হ্যাঙ্গার নির্মানের জন্য জমি নির্ধারন করা হয়েছে এবং খুব শীঘ্রই কাজ শুরু হচ্ছে।

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## BanglarBagh

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Defense Update Bangladesh
> Published on Aug 12, 2017
> To fulfill the needs of an advanced jet trainer requirement of BAF Government of Bangladesh bought 16 Russian Yakovlev built Yak-130 for the country’s air force. This year BAF also ordered 14 more Yak trainer jets.
> 
> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 
> ছবিটি কিন্তু বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর this picture is not BAF's C-130B না!!!
> 
> এটি South Korean Air Force দক্ষিন কোরিয়ান বিমানবাহিনীর C-130J Super Hercules. একটা জিনিস লক্ষ্য করলে হয়তো বুঝবেন যে দক্ষিন কোরিয়ান C-130J এবং আমাদের and our C-130B camouflage are the sameএর ক্যামোফ্লাজ একই।
> 
> আশা করা যায় আমাদের আপকামিং C-130J Super Hercules এও একই ক্যামোফ্লাজ ইউজ করা হবে।
> 
> (কমেন্টে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর C-130B এর ছবি দেয়া হলো।আপনারাই বুঝতে পারবেন যে ক্যামোফ্লাজ বলতে গেলে একই)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lockheed C-130B Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force...
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য যুক্তরাজ্য থেকে কেনা ২ টি C-130J Super Hercules গুলো by 2019 ২০১৯ সালে দেশে আসবে বলে জানা গেছে। এই বিশাল পরিবহন বিমান দুইটি ঢাকার তেজগাঁও এর Tezgaon stationed at BAF Base Basher"বাশার এয়ারফোর্স বেইস" এ রাখা হবে।এর জন্য বিমানবন্দরের for which work will commence shortly সংস্কার এবং হ্যাঙ্গার নির্মানের জন্য জমি নির্ধারন করা হয়েছে এবং খুব শীঘ্রই কাজ শুরু হচ্ছে।



14 more yaks!!! great news!
but about the crashed yak, are the 14 to be procured include this one? because if it does there will be 29 in total!
since yakovlev has agreed to repay the money for the crashed jet, IMO BAF should just get a replacement jet instead to make it a total of 30!

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## Banglar Bir

BanglarBagh said:


> about the crashed yak, are the 14 to be procured include this one? because if it does there will be 29 in total!
> since yakovlev has agreed to repay the money for the crashed jet, IMO BAF should just get a replacement jet instead to make it a total of 30!


Kindly let us all be patient and wait for the official report of the C of I.


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB* 
*



♦Kh-35 Anti-Ship Cruise Missile



♦*

Bangladesh Airforce+ Navy বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর/বিমানবাহিনীর upcoming Anti-ship Cruise Missile আপকামিং এন্টিশিপ ক্রুজ মিসাইল হলো রাশিয়ার নির্মিত Kh-35. এটি সাবসনিক গতিবেগে subsonic speed of 300 km৩০০ কিমি দূরবর্তী লক্ষ্যে নির্ভুলভাবে আঘাত হানতে সক্ষম।এর ইন্টারনাল গাইডেন্স সিস্টেমের পাশাপাশি আছে ARGS-35E X-band terminal active radar homing সিস্টেম যা নির্দিষ্ট লক্ষ্যে আঘাত হানা নিশ্চিত করে।

বাংলাদেশের প্রতিবেশী দেশ ভারত এবং মিয়ানমার এই মিসাইল ব্যবহার করে।ভারত ব্যাপক হারে এটি ব্যবহার করলেও মিয়ানমার তাদের নির্মিত ফ্রিগেট Aung Zeya তে এরকম ৮ টি মিসাইল ইন্সটল করেছে।

আমাদের জন্য মোট 50 X ৫০ টি Kh-35 AshM কেনার সম্ভাবনা আছে।এর লঞ্চিং প্লাটফর্ম হবে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীর আপকামিংforthcoming 12( 8+4) ১২ (৮+৪) টি SU-30SME (ডিলটি খুব শীঘ্রই স্বাক্ষর হবে)। প্রতিটি বিমান ২ টি করে Kh-35 বহন করতে পারে।





*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB * 



♦ Unknown History of BAF বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর অজানা কাহিনী



♦

আজ যে কাহিনীর কথা আপনাদের জানাবো তার কথা আপনারা কেউই জানেন না (খুব অল্প সংখ্যক কয়েকজন বাদে)......

যখন বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিণী জন্ম নিচ্ছিল,তখন বাংলাদেশের বিমান বাহিণীকে ভারত India offered 2X দুইটি ব্রিটেন নির্মিত de Havilland Vampire Fightersফাইটার দিয়ে সাহায্য করতে চেয়েছিল।যদিও আমাদের নীতি নির্ধারকেরা এই প্রস্তাব বাদ করে দেন, rejected by our policy makers।

কারন ভ্যাম্পায়ার ফাইটার গুলো ভারতীয় বাহিনীতে যোগ দেয় সেই built in the 50'sপঞ্চাশের দশকে,ইতিমধ্যে '৬৫ এর যুদ্ধে গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক রুলে ভাল পারফরম্যান্স দেখালেও উন্নত F-86 had much better performanceএফ-৮৬ এর হাতে মার খায়।এই কারণে ভারত আস্তে আস্তে সার্ভিস থেকে বের করে দেয়।সেই হিসেবে '৭১ এর যুগে ঢাকায় থাকা স্যাবর গুলোর তুলনায় এই গুলো ছিল একেবারেই অরক্ষিত এবং রাতে আক্রমণ চালানোর অনুপযোগী।এছাড়াও পাকিস্তান থেকে চলে আসা বিমান বাহিনীর সদস্যরা আমেরিকান বিমান চালানার অভিজ্ঞতা থাকলেও পুরনো ভ্যাম্পায়ার সম্পর্কে তাদের অভিজ্ঞতা ছিল শুন্যের কোঠায় এবং স্বল্প সময়ে শিখার কোন সুযোগ ও ছিল না।তাই তারা এর বিপরীতে প্রস্তাব রাখেন,তাদেরকে ভারতীয় BAF requested relacing these with Hawker Hunterবিমান বাহিনীর "হকার হান্টার" দেওয়া হৌক,যা বাতিল হয়ে যায় আন্তর্জাতিক রাজনীতির কারণে কেননা বিমানটি তখনো ভারতীয় বাহিনীতে একটিভ ডিউটিতে আছে।নতুবা অন্য কোন যুগপযোগী বিমান একটি ব্যাবহার যোগ্য রানওয়ে সহকারে দেওয়া হওক।

তথ্য কৃতজ্ঞতায়: শরীফ তমাল ভাই এর ব্লগ
মাসুদ রানা- বাংলাদেশ কাউন্টার ইন্টিলিজেন্স থেকে সংগ্রহীত।


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## Bilal9

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Kh-35 Anti-Ship Cruise Missile
> 
> 
> 
> ♦*
> 
> Bangladesh Airforce+ Navy বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর/বিমানবাহিনীর upcoming Anti-ship Cruise Missile আপকামিং এন্টিশিপ ক্রুজ মিসাইল হলো রাশিয়ার নির্মিত Kh-35. এটি সাবসনিক গতিবেগে subsonic speed of 300 km৩০০ কিমি দূরবর্তী লক্ষ্যে নির্ভুলভাবে আঘাত হানতে সক্ষম।এর ইন্টারনাল গাইডেন্স সিস্টেমের পাশাপাশি আছে ARGS-35E X-band terminal active radar homing সিস্টেম যা নির্দিষ্ট লক্ষ্যে আঘাত হানা নিশ্চিত করে।
> 
> বাংলাদেশের প্রতিবেশী দেশ ভারত এবং মিয়ানমার এই মিসাইল ব্যবহার করে।ভারত ব্যাপক হারে এটি ব্যবহার করলেও মিয়ানমার তাদের নির্মিত ফ্রিগেট Aung Zeya তে এরকম ৮ টি মিসাইল ইন্সটল করেছে।
> 
> আমাদের জন্য মোট 50 X ৫০ টি Kh-35 AshM কেনার সম্ভাবনা আছে।এর লঞ্চিং প্লাটফর্ম হবে আমাদের বিমানবাহিনীর আপকামিংforthcoming 12( 8+4) ১২ (৮+৪) টি SU-30SME (ডিলটি খুব শীঘ্রই স্বাক্ষর হবে)। প্রতিটি বিমান ২ টি করে Kh-35 বহন করতে পারে।
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *
> 
> 
> 
> ♦ Unknown History of BAF বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর অজানা কাহিনী
> 
> 
> 
> ♦
> 
> আজ যে কাহিনীর কথা আপনাদের জানাবো তার কথা আপনারা কেউই জানেন না (খুব অল্প সংখ্যক কয়েকজন বাদে)......
> 
> যখন বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিণী জন্ম নিচ্ছিল,তখন বাংলাদেশের বিমান বাহিণীকে ভারত India offered 2X দুইটি ব্রিটেন নির্মিত de Havilland Vampire Fightersফাইটার দিয়ে সাহায্য করতে চেয়েছিল।যদিও আমাদের নীতি নির্ধারকেরা এই প্রস্তাব বাদ করে দেন, rejected by our policy makers।
> 
> কারন ভ্যাম্পায়ার ফাইটার গুলো ভারতীয় বাহিনীতে যোগ দেয় সেই built in the 50'sপঞ্চাশের দশকে,ইতিমধ্যে '৬৫ এর যুদ্ধে গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক রুলে ভাল পারফরম্যান্স দেখালেও উন্নত F-86 had much better performanceএফ-৮৬ এর হাতে মার খায়।এই কারণে ভারত আস্তে আস্তে সার্ভিস থেকে বের করে দেয়।সেই হিসেবে '৭১ এর যুগে ঢাকায় থাকা স্যাবর গুলোর তুলনায় এই গুলো ছিল একেবারেই অরক্ষিত এবং রাতে আক্রমণ চালানোর অনুপযোগী।এছাড়াও পাকিস্তান থেকে চলে আসা বিমান বাহিনীর সদস্যরা আমেরিকান বিমান চালানার অভিজ্ঞতা থাকলেও পুরনো ভ্যাম্পায়ার সম্পর্কে তাদের অভিজ্ঞতা ছিল শুন্যের কোঠায় এবং স্বল্প সময়ে শিখার কোন সুযোগ ও ছিল না।তাই তারা এর বিপরীতে প্রস্তাব রাখেন,তাদেরকে ভারতীয় BAF requested relacing these with Hawker Hunterবিমান বাহিনীর "হকার হান্টার" দেওয়া হৌক,যা বাতিল হয়ে যায় আন্তর্জাতিক রাজনীতির কারণে কেননা বিমানটি তখনো ভারতীয় বাহিনীতে একটিভ ডিউটিতে আছে।নতুবা অন্য কোন যুগপযোগী বিমান একটি ব্যাবহার যোগ্য রানওয়ে সহকারে দেওয়া হওক।
> 
> তথ্য কৃতজ্ঞতায়: শরীফ তমাল ভাই এর ব্লগ
> মাসুদ রানা- বাংলাদেশ কাউন্টার ইন্টিলিজেন্স থেকে সংগ্রহীত।



Vampires were sorely in need of replacement by that time and were more than obsolete. The vampire pictured above is the T.11 trainer version by the way. IAF SINGLE SEATERS were the FB.5 VERSION and formed their 7th squadron to start with.

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## BDforever

Banglar Bir said:


> Defense Update Bangladesh
> Published on Aug 12, 2017
> To fulfill the needs of an advanced jet trainer requirement of BAF Government of Bangladesh bought 16 Russian Yakovlev built Yak-130 for the country’s air force. This year BAF also ordered 14 more Yak trainer jets.


video says 8 mores not 14.


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## Banglar Bir

BDforever said:


> video says 8 mores not 14.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB with Abdullah Rahim and Nowshad Hasan.* 



♦MU-90 Torpedo



♦

BN বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর আপকামিং Anti Submarine Torpedos এন্টি-সাবমেরিন টর্পেডো হলো manufactured jointly by Italy and France ইটালি এবং ফ্রান্সের যৌথ ভাবে নির্মিত MU-90 Impact Torpedo.

বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর জন্য কেনা ৪ টি to be used by 4 x AW-159 Wildcat হেলিকপ্টারের সাথে এই টর্পেডো আমাদের বহরে যুক্ত হতে যাচ্ছে। এটি ১০ কিমি (সর্বোচ্চ গতিবেগে) থেকে ২৩ কিমি (সর্বনিম্ন বেগে) পর্যন্ত যেতে সক্ষম।

এতে আছে ৩২.৭ কেজির হেভি এক্সপ্লোসিভ ওয়ারহেড। এটি পানির সর্বোচ্চ ১০০০ মিটার নিচে অবস্থিত সাবমেরিনেও আঘাত করতে সক্ষম।

আমাদের প্রতিটি AW-159 হেলিকপ্টার এরকম ২ টি টর্পেডো বহন করবে।

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## Banglar Bir

*বিমানবাহিনীতে যুক্ত হতে যাচ্ছে রাশিয়ার তৈরী অত্যাধুনিক সু ৩০*




Published on Jun 9, 2017
বাংলাদেশ রাশিয়া থেকে ৮ টি এস ইউ ৩০ মাল্টিরোল যুদ্ধবিমান কিনতে চলেছে।বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীকে আধুনিকায়নের ধারাবাহিকতায় ৮ টি মাল্টিরোল যুদ্ধবিমানের টেন্ডার কল করা হয়েছিল যা রাশিয়ার ইর্কুট কর্পোরেশন জিতে নিয়েছে। এই প্রতিষ্টানের তৈরী এস ইউ ৩০ এর সর্বশেষ আপগ্রেটেড ভার্সন এস ইউ ৩০ এসএমই হতে চলেছে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর সর্বাধুনিক চতুর্থ প্রজন্মের মাল্টিরোল যুদ্ধবিমান। এই বিমানটি ১৯৯৬ সালে সার্ভিছে আসলেও বাংলাদেশের জন্য ২০১২ সালের আপগ্রেটেড ভার্সন কেনা হচ্ছে।
এস ইউ ৩০ ২ জন পাইলটের দ্বারা পরিচালিত ঘন্টায় ২৫০০ কিলোমিটার গতির একটি যুদ্ধ বিমান।ক্ষিপ্র গতির এই বিমান নিয়ে ঢাকা থেকে চট্টগ্রাম যেতে সময় লাগবে মাত্র ৬ থেকে ৭ মিনিট। 
প্রায় ৭৩ ফুট দৈর্ঘ এবং ৪৮ ফুট প্রস্থের এই বিমান একবার রসদ নিয়ে একটানা ৩৫oo কিলোমিটার পারি দিতে সক্ষম অর্থাৎ ঢাকা থেকে চট্টগ্রামে ১৫ বার পারি দেওয়ার সমান। 
এই বিমানের ক্ষিপ্রতা দেয় দুটি এ এল ৩১ এফ এল লো বাইপাস টার্বোফ্যান ইঞ্জিন। বিমানটি খালি অবস্থায় ওজন ১৭.৭ টন এবং ফুয়েল সহ মিসাইল ও বোমা লোডেড অবস্থায় এর ওজন দাঁড়ায় প্রায় ২৫ টন। 
বিমানটির রাডার ব্যবস্থার মধ্যে রয়েছে এন০০১ রাডার সিস্টেম যা ইলেকট্রিক পালস ব্যবহার করে এই বিমান কে ১৯০ কিলোমিটার ৩৬০ ডিগ্রি রাডার সাপোর্ট দেয়। অর্থাৎ বিমানটি ঢাকার উপরে থাকলে রাজশাহীর আকাশে থাকা শত্রু বিমানকে ডিটেক্ট করতে পারে। আর এই এরিয়ার মধ্যে একি সময় ৬ টি টার্গেট লক করে ৪টা টার্গেট শুট করার ক্ষমতা রাখে। 
অস্ত্র হিসাবে এই বিমানে রয়েছে একটি ১৫০ রাউন্ড গুলির, জি এস এই ৩০-১ ৩০ মিলিমিটার ক্যানন। 
বিমানটিতে রয়েছে সর্বমোট ১২ টি বোমা মিসাইল বহন করার হার্ড পয়েন্ট। যার ৬ টি হার্ডপয়েন্টে শত্রু বিমান বিদ্ধংসী আর ২৭ ই আর রাখা যাই আর এই মিসাইল ১৩০ কিলোমিটার দূর থেকে শত্রু বিমানকে আঘাত করতে সক্ষম অর্থাৎ বিমানটি ঢাকার আকাশে থেকে এই মিসাইল ফায়ার করার মাদ্ধমে যশোরের আকাশে থাকা শত্রু বিমানকে ধ্বংস করতে পারবে। 
এছাড়া এই বিমানটি মাটিতে থাকা শত্রুর রাডার সিস্টেম বা পানিতে শত্রুর জাহাজকে ধ্বংস করতে ব্যবহার করে কে এইস ৩১ পি এ এন্টি রাডার বা এন্টি শিপ মিসাইল যা ১১০ কিলোমিটার দূরে থাকা শত্রুর রাডার সিস্টেম বা শত্রুর জাহাজকে ধ্বংস করতে পারে অর্থাৎ বিমানটি কুয়াকাটার আকাশে থেকে আমাদের পশ্চিম জলসীমার শেষ প্রান্তে অথবা কক্সবাজারের আকাশ থেকে সেন্টমার্টিনের আসে পাশে থাকা শত্রু জাহাজকে আঘাত করতে পারবে। 
এছাড়া এই বিমানে আরো বিভিন্ন ধরণের কার্যকরী দূর পাল্লার মিসাইল বহন করতে সক্ষম। মিসাইল ছাড়াও বিমানটি মাটিতে থাকা শত্রুকে নিশ্চিন্য করে দিতে প্রায় ৮ টন বোমাও বহন করতে পারে।
২০১৮ সালের মধ্যে বিমানবাহিনীর বহরে চীনের ১৬ টি যে ১০ বি এবং এই ৮ টি বিমান যুক্ত হলে আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষায় বাংলাদেশ বহুগুনে এগিয়ে যাবে। 
Bengal Voice

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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> *বিমানবাহিনীতে যুক্ত হতে যাচ্ছে রাশিয়ার তৈরী অত্যাধুনিক সু ৩০*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Published on Jun 9, 2017
> বাংলাদেশ রাশিয়া থেকে ৮ টি এস ইউ ৩০ মাল্টিরোল যুদ্ধবিমান কিনতে চলেছে।বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীকে আধুনিকায়নের ধারাবাহিকতায় ৮ টি মাল্টিরোল যুদ্ধবিমানের টেন্ডার কল করা হয়েছিল যা রাশিয়ার ইর্কুট কর্পোরেশন জিতে নিয়েছে। এই প্রতিষ্টানের তৈরী এস ইউ ৩০ এর সর্বশেষ আপগ্রেটেড ভার্সন এস ইউ ৩০ এসএমই হতে চলেছে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর সর্বাধুনিক চতুর্থ প্রজন্মের মাল্টিরোল যুদ্ধবিমান। এই বিমানটি ১৯৯৬ সালে সার্ভিছে আসলেও বাংলাদেশের জন্য ২০১২ সালের আপগ্রেটেড ভার্সন কেনা হচ্ছে।
> এস ইউ ৩০ ২ জন পাইলটের দ্বারা পরিচালিত ঘন্টায় ২৫০০ কিলোমিটার গতির একটি যুদ্ধ বিমান।ক্ষিপ্র গতির এই বিমান নিয়ে ঢাকা থেকে চট্টগ্রাম যেতে সময় লাগবে মাত্র ৬ থেকে ৭ মিনিট।
> প্রায় ৭৩ ফুট দৈর্ঘ এবং ৪৮ ফুট প্রস্থের এই বিমান একবার রসদ নিয়ে একটানা ৩৫oo কিলোমিটার পারি দিতে সক্ষম অর্থাৎ ঢাকা থেকে চট্টগ্রামে ১৫ বার পারি দেওয়ার সমান।
> এই বিমানের ক্ষিপ্রতা দেয় দুটি এ এল ৩১ এফ এল লো বাইপাস টার্বোফ্যান ইঞ্জিন। বিমানটি খালি অবস্থায় ওজন ১৭.৭ টন এবং ফুয়েল সহ মিসাইল ও বোমা লোডেড অবস্থায় এর ওজন দাঁড়ায় প্রায় ২৫ টন।
> বিমানটির রাডার ব্যবস্থার মধ্যে রয়েছে এন০০১ রাডার সিস্টেম যা ইলেকট্রিক পালস ব্যবহার করে এই বিমান কে ১৯০ কিলোমিটার ৩৬০ ডিগ্রি রাডার সাপোর্ট দেয়। অর্থাৎ বিমানটি ঢাকার উপরে থাকলে রাজশাহীর আকাশে থাকা শত্রু বিমানকে ডিটেক্ট করতে পারে। আর এই এরিয়ার মধ্যে একি সময় ৬ টি টার্গেট লক করে ৪টা টার্গেট শুট করার ক্ষমতা রাখে।
> অস্ত্র হিসাবে এই বিমানে রয়েছে একটি ১৫০ রাউন্ড গুলির, জি এস এই ৩০-১ ৩০ মিলিমিটার ক্যানন।
> বিমানটিতে রয়েছে সর্বমোট ১২ টি বোমা মিসাইল বহন করার হার্ড পয়েন্ট। যার ৬ টি হার্ডপয়েন্টে শত্রু বিমান বিদ্ধংসী আর ২৭ ই আর রাখা যাই আর এই মিসাইল ১৩০ কিলোমিটার দূর থেকে শত্রু বিমানকে আঘাত করতে সক্ষম অর্থাৎ বিমানটি ঢাকার আকাশে থেকে এই মিসাইল ফায়ার করার মাদ্ধমে যশোরের আকাশে থাকা শত্রু বিমানকে ধ্বংস করতে পারবে।
> এছাড়া এই বিমানটি মাটিতে থাকা শত্রুর রাডার সিস্টেম বা পানিতে শত্রুর জাহাজকে ধ্বংস করতে ব্যবহার করে কে এইস ৩১ পি এ এন্টি রাডার বা এন্টি শিপ মিসাইল যা ১১০ কিলোমিটার দূরে থাকা শত্রুর রাডার সিস্টেম বা শত্রুর জাহাজকে ধ্বংস করতে পারে অর্থাৎ বিমানটি কুয়াকাটার আকাশে থেকে আমাদের পশ্চিম জলসীমার শেষ প্রান্তে অথবা কক্সবাজারের আকাশ থেকে সেন্টমার্টিনের আসে পাশে থাকা শত্রু জাহাজকে আঘাত করতে পারবে।
> এছাড়া এই বিমানে আরো বিভিন্ন ধরণের কার্যকরী দূর পাল্লার মিসাইল বহন করতে সক্ষম। মিসাইল ছাড়াও বিমানটি মাটিতে থাকা শত্রুকে নিশ্চিন্য করে দিতে প্রায় ৮ টন বোমাও বহন করতে পারে।
> ২০১৮ সালের মধ্যে বিমানবাহিনীর বহরে চীনের ১৬ টি যে ১০ বি এবং এই ৮ টি বিমান যুক্ত হলে আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষায় বাংলাদেশ বহুগুনে এগিয়ে যাবে।
> Bengal Voice


Order hoye ghece?


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## Banglar Bir

*BAF initiates move to declare Air Defence Identification Zone*
Shakhawat Hossain  | Published: 00:38, Aug 16,2017
Bangladesh Air Force has taken initiatives to establish the Air Defence Identification Zone for strengthening its surveillances over the country’s sky territory in the wake of declaration of ADIZ by neighbouring India and Myanmar. 

Officials said a five-member technical committee headed by an air commodore has already been appointed by the BAF in connection with establishing the ADIZ.

The committee is expected to give its report to the BAF before the end of this year, they said.
Prime minister Sheikh Hasina, who is also in charge of defence ministry, gave approval to the identification process in July.

The officials said declaration of ADIZ by neighbouring countries India and Myanmar prompted BAF to improve its existing surveillance system to monitor the country’s sky boundary.
ADIZ provides an early warning system to help a country detect possible incursions into its sovereign airspace. It even stretches beyond the boundary of a country’s national airspace to determine air threat much earlier.

The US and Soviet Union relied on ADIZ during the Cold War to ensure they were not surprised by sudden incursions into their national airspace.

The officials said establishment of ADIZ would be a major task for the BAF in the current fiscal year in addition to procurement of eight multi-role combat aircraft and a long-range air defence radar to be set up in Barisal at a cost of Tk 147 crore.

Russian fighter manufacturers are the major contender to supply the fighters that would strengthen BAF’s defense capability against aerial threats as well as providing it with a platform for anti-surface, maritime and offensive counter-air operations.

On December 9, 2016, law minister Anisul Huq in parliament said that the government would procure eight multi-role combat aircraft for the Bangladesh Air Force.

He noted that acquisition of fighters would be completed in the current fiscal year.
According to the Forces Goal Vision 2030, the air force has long-term procurement plans including acquiring new generation fighter aircraft between 2020 and 2025.

The air force also purchased 24 training-cum-combat aircraft from Russia under $1 billion supplier’s credit in 2012. It also purchased Yakovlev Yak-130 multi-role helicopters and AgustaWestland AW139 search and rescue helicopters in 2015. 
http://www.newagebd.net/article/22055/baf-initiates-move-to-declare-air-defence-identification-zone

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## Banglar Bir

CASA CN-295W of Bangladesh Army Aviation... Scheduled to be delivered in September 2017

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## Banglar Bir

*Bangladesh Air Force Buying RAF C-130J Super Hercules*



Defense Update Bangladesh




Published on Aug 17, 2017
Recently Bangladesh shopping some high-tech military equipment for its armed forces from across the globe. 

Directorate General Defense Purchase (DGDP) overlooks the purchasing processes. Bangladesh Air Force has making a deal with United Kingdom’s Royal Air Force for two of its Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules tactical medium airlifter. Currently BAF operating four Lockheed Martin C-130B/E Hercules and wants some few more. 

C-130J Super Hercules is the latest advanced version with an upgraded engine and other advanced systems and sensors. This aircraft has sought huge success in the military transport aircraft market while almost 300 unit has been built various customers. 
Bangladesh Air Force acquiring C-130J Super Hercules planes to enhance military air operations under “Forces Goal – 2030”. And, these aircrafts can also be used during any natural disaster management operation as Bangladesh is a highly natural calamities prone country.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
J-10 যুদ্ধবিমানে ব্যবহৃত PJ-9/LD-10 Anti Radiation Missile এবং C-701 Anti-Ship Missile.

মানে J-10B বিমান এন্টি রেডিয়েশন এবং মেরিটাইম স্ট্রাইক দুই কাজই করতে পারে।

আমাদের আপকামিং BAF's upcoming J-10B/J-10C will use these Missilesতে এসব মিসাইল ব্যবহার করা হবে।*


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## Avicenna

Please have a look at this link.

https://twitter.com/xinfengcao

The pics of the J-10C are AMAZING!!!!

It essentially looks like a single engined cross between the Typhoon and Rafale. With a little bit of F-32 with the air intake.

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## bdslph

Avicenna said:


> Please have a look at this link.
> 
> https://twitter.com/xinfengcao
> 
> The pics of the J-10C are AMAZING!!!!
> 
> It essentially looks like a single engined cross between the Typhoon and Rafale. With a little bit of F-32 with the air intake.



i think we should have ordered the J10C


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## Bengal Tiger 71

BAF should go for J10 model latest version.


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## bdslph

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BAF should go for J10 model latest version.



BD is going for the J10B but the J10 C is the latest version


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## Banglar Bir

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BAF should go for J10 model latest version.


Sabr bro,Sabr.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

bdslph said:


> BD is going for the J10B but the J10 C is the latest version


whats our problem!!!


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## Michael Corleone

J-10c not cleared for export... j-10 b got cleared recently. Don't expect to get hands on j-10 c without a j-10 d in China's hand

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
*যেসব মেম্বার এবং ফলোয়ার অনেক আগে থেকে আমাদের পেইজ ফলো করেন বা করছেন তারা নিশ্চয়ই দেখবেন আমরা অন্যান্য পেইজ বা গ্রুপ থেকে কিছুটা আলাদা পোস্ট দেয়ার চেষ্টা করি....আমাদের পেইজ শুধু বাংলাদেশ সামরিক বাহিনীর নিউজ এবং আপডেট দিয়ে থাকে।আমাদের পেইজে বাংলাদেশি ছাড়াও কিছু ভারতীয় আছেন, যাদের আমরা অনেক সম্মান করি এবং তারা সেই সম্মান deserve করে।কারন তারা যুক্তি দিয়ে কথা বলে....

এখন মুল প্রসঙ্গে ফিরে আসি.....আমাদের প্রতিবেশী সুপার পাওয়ারফুল ভারতের একটি বিখ্যাত পেইজ যা ইতিমধ্যে imaginary news বানোয়াট এবং আজাইরা নিউজ বানানোর জন্য বেশ জনপ্রিয়তা পেয়েছে...হ্যা আমি সেই পেইজের কথাই বলছি।আসলে নাম উল্লেখ করে একটা দেশকে বিকৃত করার ইচ্ছা নেই।

তাদের মতে "according to the Indian site , we are purchasing Mig-35 on Indian loans ভারতীয় লোনে আমরা মিগ-৩৫ কিনছি","আমাদের as we do not have the financial capabilities required for the maintenance of to SU-30 এর মত বিমান রক্ষনাবেক্ষন করার টাকা নেই","আমরা we are NOT purchasing J-10, and the nws is false কিনছি তা ভুয়া"

For those immature school boy admins....

মিগ-৩৫ যদি কেনা হয় নিজেদের টাকায় কিনবে এবং সেটা দিয়ে মিগ স্কোয়াড্রন ফুল ফিল করবে।তোমাদের লোনের টাকা এখনো আমরা গ্রহন করি নি।আর তোমরা আমাদের পায়ে পড়ে লোন দিয়েছো যখন চীনের সাথে ৪০ বিলিয়ন ডলারের চুক্তি হয়।

আমাদের দেশের বর্তমান যে অর্থনৈতিক অবস্থা তাতে ১২ টা we can easily maintain 12X SU-30SME মেইনটেইন করা this is not an issueকোন ব্যাপার না।

আর যেখানে বিমানবাহিনীর উর্ধতন কর্মকর্তারা whereas purchase of J-10 has been nearly confirmedকেনা প্রায় নিশ্চিত করেছেন সেখানে তারা this site is stating that negotiations are ongoing for JF-17 নিয়ে কথা বলছে।

সবচেয়ে হাস্যকর ব্যাপার "তাদের সোর্স" বলে উল্লেখ করছে।

আসলে এই পেইজটাকে "ভারতীয় সামরিক চটি পেইজ" বলে আখ্যা দেয়া যায়।যাদের কাজ নিত্যনতুন খবর বানিয়ে বানিয়ে সবাইকে আকৃষ্ট করা।

আশা করি তারা আরোhope they are Mature enough and show respect to others হবে এবং সবাইকে সম্মান দিতে শিখবে।*


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## bdslph

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> *যেসব মেম্বার এবং ফলোয়ার অনেক আগে থেকে আমাদের পেইজ ফলো করেন বা করছেন তারা নিশ্চয়ই দেখবেন আমরা অন্যান্য পেইজ বা গ্রুপ থেকে কিছুটা আলাদা পোস্ট দেয়ার চেষ্টা করি....আমাদের পেইজ শুধু বাংলাদেশ সামরিক বাহিনীর নিউজ এবং আপডেট দিয়ে থাকে।আমাদের পেইজে বাংলাদেশি ছাড়াও কিছু ভারতীয় আছেন, যাদের আমরা অনেক সম্মান করি এবং তারা সেই সম্মান deserve করে।কারন তারা যুক্তি দিয়ে কথা বলে....
> 
> এখন মুল প্রসঙ্গে ফিরে আসি.....আমাদের প্রতিবেশী সুপার পাওয়ারফুল ভারতের একটি বিখ্যাত পেইজ যা ইতিমধ্যে imaginary news বানোয়াট এবং আজাইরা নিউজ বানানোর জন্য বেশ জনপ্রিয়তা পেয়েছে...হ্যা আমি সেই পেইজের কথাই বলছি।আসলে নাম উল্লেখ করে একটা দেশকে বিকৃত করার ইচ্ছা নেই।
> 
> তাদের মতে "according to the Indian site , we are purchasing Mig-35 on Indian loans ভারতীয় লোনে আমরা মিগ-৩৫ কিনছি","আমাদের as we do not have the financial capabilities required for the maintenance of to SU-30 এর মত বিমান রক্ষনাবেক্ষন করার টাকা নেই","আমরা we are NOT purchasing J-10, and the nws is false কিনছি তা ভুয়া"
> 
> For those immature school boy admins....
> 
> মিগ-৩৫ যদি কেনা হয় নিজেদের টাকায় কিনবে এবং সেটা দিয়ে মিগ স্কোয়াড্রন ফুল ফিল করবে।তোমাদের লোনের টাকা এখনো আমরা গ্রহন করি নি।আর তোমরা আমাদের পায়ে পড়ে লোন দিয়েছো যখন চীনের সাথে ৪০ বিলিয়ন ডলারের চুক্তি হয়।
> 
> আমাদের দেশের বর্তমান যে অর্থনৈতিক অবস্থা তাতে ১২ টা we can easily maintain 12X SU-30SME মেইনটেইন করা this is not an issueকোন ব্যাপার না।
> 
> আর যেখানে বিমানবাহিনীর উর্ধতন কর্মকর্তারা whereas purchase of J-10 has been nearly confirmedকেনা প্রায় নিশ্চিত করেছেন সেখানে তারা this site is stating that negotiations are ongoing for JF-17 নিয়ে কথা বলছে।
> 
> সবচেয়ে হাস্যকর ব্যাপার "তাদের সোর্স" বলে উল্লেখ করছে।
> 
> আসলে এই পেইজটাকে "ভারতীয় সামরিক চটি পেইজ" বলে আখ্যা দেয়া যায়।যাদের কাজ নিত্যনতুন খবর বানিয়ে বানিয়ে সবাইকে আকৃষ্ট করা।
> 
> আশা করি তারা আরোhope they are Mature enough and show respect to others হবে এবং সবাইকে সম্মান দিতে শিখবে।*



i dont think its true we will buy one platform only most probably su30 Sme 
mig35 is not still clear 100 percent and mass production will start on after 2020


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## Banglar Bir

*Past, Present and Future Fighters of BAF.....(more will be added soo*n










)





*Antonov An-32 of Bangladesh Air Force
BAF has 3 of them and one of them was converted into Bombers*





*MiG-29B, L-39ZA & Cessna T-37 Tweet in one frame




PT-6




*

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## Banglar Bir

*FT- 7 at CTG



*

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## Banglar Bir

*Past,Present and Future helicopter's of BAF....(mil Mi-28 will be operated by BAF)*

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## Banglar Bir

*Special Forces of BAF




*

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## Banglar Bir

*বঙ্গবন্ধু এরোনটিকাল সেন্টার after overhauling of BAF's F-7MB at BAC এ ওভারহোলিং করার পর বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর F-7MB যুদ্ধবিমান*

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
1 hr · 


*বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন single engine MRCA এর জন্য বলতে গেলে uncontested leader is অপ্রতিদ্বন্দ্বী প্রার্থী হলো চীনের Chinese J-10 যুদ্ধবিমান।*

*এই বছরের শেষ দিকে চীনের সাথে by the end of this year under the US$ 1 BILLION loan ১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলার চুক্তির আওতায় ১৬ টি BAF will probably procure 16 X J-10 Chinese MRCA কেনার কথা আছে

প্রথমে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী firstly, BAF intented to purchase the J-10B version, an upgraded version of ভার্সন কিনতে চেয়েছিলো যা ছিলো J-10A এর আপগ্রেডেড এবং মর্ডান ভার্সন।

The good news is most likely BAF will purchase the latest J-10C version তবে খুশির খবর হলো "বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী খুব সম্ভবত সবচেয়ে লেটেস্ট the latest J-10C কিনবে"।

J-10C has entered service this year এই বছরেই সার্ভিসে প্রবেশ করেছে।সব রকম পরীক্ষায় উত্তীর্ণ হবার পর তা চাইনিজ এয়ারফোর্সের সার্ভিসে এসেছে।এটি much better than J-10B থেকে অনেক উন্নত।uses composite materials, as such RCS is much lessএতে কম্পোজিট ম্যাটেরিয়াল ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে ফলে এর রাডার ক্রস সেকশন (RCS) J-10B এর চেয়ে অনেক কম।

এতে আছে অত্যাধুনিক KLJ-10A AESA range may be around 220 km রাডার যার রেঞ্জ অপ্রকাশিত। তবে অনেকের মতে ২২০ কিমি।এছাড়া এতে রাশিয়ান রাডারও ইন্সটল করা যাবে।এটি একটি হাই-ম্যানুভারেবল ফাইটার।

আর এই ভার্সনে চাইনিজ this version uses Chinese WS-10A engines ইঞ্জিন ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে যা পুর্বের AL-31 ইঞ্জিনের সমস্যা সমাধান করবে বলে আশা করা হচ্ছে এবং এর থ্রাস্টও তুলনামূলক বেশি।এছাড়া এই বিমানে দুরপাল্লার মিশন পরিচালনার জন্য এক্সটারনাল ফুয়েল ট্যাংক এবং রিফুয়েলিং প্রোব আছে যা দিয়ে মাঝ আকাশে রিফুয়েলিং করতে পারবে।

Cockpit has ককপিটে আছে ৩ টি মাল্টিফাংশনাল ডিসপ্লে (3D-MFD) + এবং হেড আপ ডিসপ্লে (HUD). 
আছে হেলমেট মাউন্টেন সাইট (HMS) যার মাধ্যমে পাইলট যেদিকে তাকাবে অটোমেটিকভাবে সেদিকে টার্গেট লক হবে।

আর এর অস্ত্রসজ্জায়ও নতুনত্ব এসেছে।এই বিমান অত্যাধুনিক latest PL-12 missiles মিসাইল আছে যার রেঞ্জ range 100 km১০০ কিমি।আর খুব রিসেন্ট ছবিতে একে চাইনিজ recent version uses PL-15 missiles, range 300 km মিসাইল বহন করতে দেখা গেছে যার রেঞ্জ ৩০০ কিমি এবং speed Mach-4 স্পিড ম্যাক-৪!!!!

এই মিসাইল মুলত এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি ওয়ার্নিং বিমান,ফুয়েল ট্যাংকার এবং স্ট্র‍্যাটিজিক ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান ধ্বংস করতে সক্ষম।

এছাড়াAlso C-802A, C-701 AShM এন্টিশিপ মিসাইল,রাশিয়ান and Kh-31P বা চাইনিজ YJ-91 anti radiation missiles can be mounted এন্টি রেডিয়েশন মিসাইল বহন করতে সক্ষম।

Hopefully by end of this year the agreement with China will be concluded আশা করা যায় এই বছরের শেষ দিকেই (নভেম্বর-ডিসেম্বর) চীনের সাথে চুক্তি হবে।*

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## UKBengali

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 1 hr ·
> 
> 
> *বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন single engine MRCA এর জন্য বলতে গেলে uncontested leader is অপ্রতিদ্বন্দ্বী প্রার্থী হলো চীনের Chinese J-10 যুদ্ধবিমান।*
> 
> *এই বছরের শেষ দিকে চীনের সাথে by the end of this year under the US$ 1 BILLION loan ১ বিলিয়ন মার্কিন ডলার চুক্তির আওতায় ১৬ টি BAF will probably procure 16 X J-10 Chinese MRCA কেনার কথা আছে
> 
> প্রথমে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী firstly, BAF intented to purchase the J-10B version, an upgraded version of ভার্সন কিনতে চেয়েছিলো যা ছিলো J-10A এর আপগ্রেডেড এবং মর্ডান ভার্সন।
> 
> The good news is most likely BAF will purchase the latest J-10C version তবে খুশির খবর হলো "বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী খুব সম্ভবত সবচেয়ে লেটেস্ট the latest J-10C কিনবে"।
> 
> J-10C has entered service this year এই বছরেই সার্ভিসে প্রবেশ করেছে।সব রকম পরীক্ষায় উত্তীর্ণ হবার পর তা চাইনিজ এয়ারফোর্সের সার্ভিসে এসেছে।এটি much better than J-10B থেকে অনেক উন্নত।uses composite materials, as such RCS is much lessএতে কম্পোজিট ম্যাটেরিয়াল ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে ফলে এর রাডার ক্রস সেকশন (RCS) J-10B এর চেয়ে অনেক কম।
> 
> এতে আছে অত্যাধুনিক KLJ-10A AESA range may be around 220 km রাডার যার রেঞ্জ অপ্রকাশিত। তবে অনেকের মতে ২২০ কিমি।এছাড়া এতে রাশিয়ান রাডারও ইন্সটল করা যাবে।এটি একটি হাই-ম্যানুভারেবল ফাইটার।
> 
> আর এই ভার্সনে চাইনিজ this version uses Chinese WS-10A engines ইঞ্জিন ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে যা পুর্বের AL-31 ইঞ্জিনের সমস্যা সমাধান করবে বলে আশা করা হচ্ছে এবং এর থ্রাস্টও তুলনামূলক বেশি।এছাড়া এই বিমানে দুরপাল্লার মিশন পরিচালনার জন্য এক্সটারনাল ফুয়েল ট্যাংক এবং রিফুয়েলিং প্রোব আছে যা দিয়ে মাঝ আকাশে রিফুয়েলিং করতে পারবে।
> 
> Cockpit has ককপিটে আছে ৩ টি মাল্টিফাংশনাল ডিসপ্লে (3D-MFD) + এবং হেড আপ ডিসপ্লে (HUD).
> আছে হেলমেট মাউন্টেন সাইট (HMS) যার মাধ্যমে পাইলট যেদিকে তাকাবে অটোমেটিকভাবে সেদিকে টার্গেট লক হবে।
> 
> আর এর অস্ত্রসজ্জায়ও নতুনত্ব এসেছে।এই বিমান অত্যাধুনিক latest PL-12 missiles মিসাইল আছে যার রেঞ্জ range 100 km১০০ কিমি।আর খুব রিসেন্ট ছবিতে একে চাইনিজ recent version uses PL-15 missiles, range 300 km মিসাইল বহন করতে দেখা গেছে যার রেঞ্জ ৩০০ কিমি এবং speed Mach-4 স্পিড ম্যাক-৪!!!!
> 
> এই মিসাইল মুলত এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি ওয়ার্নিং বিমান,ফুয়েল ট্যাংকার এবং স্ট্র‍্যাটিজিক ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান ধ্বংস করতে সক্ষম।
> 
> এছাড়াAlso C-802A, C-701 AShM এন্টিশিপ মিসাইল,রাশিয়ান and Kh-31P বা চাইনিজ YJ-91 anti radiation missiles can be mounted এন্টি রেডিয়েশন মিসাইল বহন করতে সক্ষম।
> 
> Hopefully by end of this year the agreement with China will be concluded আশা করা যায় এই বছরের শেষ দিকেই (নভেম্বর-ডিসেম্বর) চীনের সাথে চুক্তি হবে।*



J-10C would be the equal of the Rafale and even 6 would destroy the MAF.

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## bdslph

UKBengali said:


> J-10C would be the equal of the Rafale and even 6 would destroy the MAF.



J10c is different from Rafale . Rafale is superior and advance then this J10C

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *



*BAF has selected pilots for receiving training on বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ট্রান্সপোর্ট স্কোয়াড্রনগুলো থেকে বাছাই করা পাইলটেরা সম্ভবত এই মাসে সৌদিআরব যাচ্ছেন C-130J Super Hercules এর উপর প্রশিক্ষন নিতে।

সেখানে after receiving the 9 months duration traning from Saudi Arabia, they will travel to the U.K and fly back the two aircrafts to Bangladesh ৯ মাসের প্রশিক্ষন শেষ করে তারা UK তে যাবে বিমান গ্রহন এবং দেশে নিয়ে আসার জন্য।

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী UK থেকে ২ টি 2 X C-130J Super Hercules will be added to thier fleet by 2018-19 ক্রয় করেছে এবং ২০১৮-১৯ সালে এগুলো বিমানবাহিনীর বহরে যুক্ত হচ্ছে।*

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## Banglar Bir

*




Eid post something rare,(probably the rarest)
The original helicopters of Bangladesh Army Aviation Hiller UH-212.
These actually belonged to Pakistan Army left behind in 1971.
2 such existed,however they never flew. 
Saw the Pilots of Army Aviation EME, trying in vain to 
repair them. At least one did hover for a few meters only.
They were later sold to an unknown customer in 1980.
People think Westland Wessex was rare




Anyone have any photo of it plz share*

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## Bilal9

Banglar Bir said:


> *
> View attachment 422736
> 
> Eid post something rare,(probably the rarest)
> The original helicopters of Bangladesh Army Aviation Hiller UH-212.
> These actually belonged to Pakistan Army left behind in 1971.
> 2 such existed,however they never flew.
> Saw the Pilots of Army Aviation EME, trying in vain to
> repair them.
> They were later sold to an unknown customer in 1980.
> People think Westland Wessex was rare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any photo of it plz share*



Mil gaya Bhaisaab...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-army-aviation-corps-updated.45739/page-109

Apparently Defence.pk is the best resource on the net for Pakistan-Bangladesh related information.

Pakistan Army Aviators learned how to fly their first helis in the UH-12/OH-23's and while undergoing flying training at Ft. Wolters (Texas) in 1957 to 1960/64.

Our senior member @nomi007 sahab had personal experience flying these.....Thanks in advance to him for sharing any further info.....

AFAIK these were donated by the US to Pakistan under the US Mutual Aid Program.

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## Banglar Bir

Yes, as a member of SEATO+CENTO,as US assistance programme, even the Willys Jeeps had stickers of US-Pakistan shaking hand,attached to these equipments.Unfortunately, post 1971, the Indian Army had looted them, the BER, were left behind which we subsequently inherited.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*



*বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য চীনে নির্মিত Shaanxi Y-8 AEW&C has been cancelled বিমান কেনার কথা থাকলেও শেষ মুহুর্তে বিমানবাহিনী তা বাতিল করতে যাচ্ছে। এর কারন হিসেবে বিভিন্ন সীমাবদ্ধতার কথা জানা গেছে।

এখন চীনের বদলে বিমানবাহিনী স্পেনে নির্মিত instead Spanish manufactured CASA CN-295 AEW&C অথবা মার্কিন যুক্তরাষ্ট্রে নির্মিত or Lockheed C-130 AEW&C কিনবে বলে শোনা যাচ্ছে।

চীনা বিমানের সীমাবদ্ধতার কথা যদি বলা হয় তাইলে বলা যায় এর রাডারের রেডিয়াস এবং রেঞ্জ।চীনের নির্মিত Y-8 বিমানে যে রাডার ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে তা ৩০০ ডিগ্রি কাভার দিতে সক্ষম এবং রেঞ্জ ৩০০ কিমি।এছাড়া এটি বাদ যাওয়ার অন্যতম কারন পাইলটদের চাইনিজ জিনিসের প্রতি অনীহা।

অন্যদিকে CASA CN-295 AEW&C অথবা C-130 AEW&C বিমানের কাভারেজ ৩৬০ ডিগ্রি এবং রেঞ্জ ভার্সন ও রাডার অনুসারে ৫০০ কিমি পর্যন্ত। এছাড়া বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী চাইনিজ পরিবহন বিমান ব্যবহার করে নি,তাছাড়া AEW&C বেশ sophisticated জিনিস।তাই বুঝেশুঝে কেনা হচ্ছে।

অনেকে আমাদের প্রশ্ন করেছেন AEW&C কি এবং এর কাজ কি?

AEW&C মানে Airborne Early Warning & Control. এক কথায় "উড়ন্ত রাডার"।এই সিস্টেমে একটি বিমানের উপর রাডার মাউন্টেন থাকে।এটি যেকোন এরিয়াল সাসপেক্ট বা সম্ভাব্য শত্রু বিমান নির্নয় ও তা বিনাশ করার ব্যবস্থা করে থাকে।

এখন এর ব্যবহার এবং বাংলাদেশের জন্য কতটুকু উপযুক্ত তা যদি জানতে চান তাহলে শুনুন-

সাধারনত যেকোন আকাশসীমায় যুদ্ধবিমান এবং অন্যান্য সামরিক আকাশযান ডিটেক্ট করার কাজ রাডারের।কিন্তু আপনার শত্রুর হাতে যদি Anti-Radiation Missile (ARM) থাকে তাহলে অনেক দুর থেকেই আপনার রাডার ধ্বংস বা জ্যামিং সিস্টেমের মাধ্যমে অকার্যকর করে দিতে পারে।এক্ষেত্রে AEW&C বিমানের অবস্থান,গতিবিধি নিকটস্থ বেইসে জানালে এয়ারডিফেন্স আর্টিলারী, SAM বা ইন্টারসেপ্টর ফাইটার ব্যবস্থা নিতে পারবে।

এছাড়া গ্রাউন্ড ফোর্সের যদি এয়ার সাপোর্টের দরকার হয় সেই হিসেবে গ্রাউন্ড ফোর্স এবং গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক জেটের মধ্যে "ভায়া" হিসেবে কাজ করে AEW&C

নৌবাহিনীর ক্ষেত্রে যদি শত্রু বিমান,জাহাজ আসে তাহলে নেভি শিপ,সাবমেরিন এবং কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স সিস্টেমকে সব তথ্য সরবরাহ করবে AEW&C.

তবে যদি ব্যক্তিগত মতামতের কথা জিজ্ঞাসা করেন তাহলে CASA CN-295 AEW&C কেই এগিয়ে রাখা যায়।কারন বাংলাদেশ আর্মি এভিয়েশন already এই বিমান ব্যবহার করবে।তবে এই বিমানের রাডার ইজরাইলের নির্মিত।যদি ইজরাইলী রাডার নেয় তাইলে কোন থার্ড পার্টি বা অন্য দেশ থেকে কিনে ব্যবহার করতে হবে।

C-130 AEW&C. as the are on old airframes, chances are slim এর সম্ভাবনা কম।যদি কিনে তাহলে লেটেস্ট মডেলের বদলে পুরানো এয়ারফ্রেম ব্যবহার করবে।*

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## BanglarBagh

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 
> 
> 
> *বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য চীনে নির্মিত Shaanxi Y-8 AEW&C has been cancelled বিমান কেনার কথা থাকলেও শেষ মুহুর্তে বিমানবাহিনী তা বাতিল করতে যাচ্ছে। এর কারন হিসেবে বিভিন্ন সীমাবদ্ধতার কথা জানা গেছে।
> 
> এখন চীনের বদলে বিমানবাহিনী স্পেনে নির্মিত instead Spanish manufactured CASA CN-295 AEW&C অথবা মার্কিন যুক্তরাষ্ট্রে নির্মিত or Lockheed C-130 AEW&C কিনবে বলে শোনা যাচ্ছে।
> 
> চীনা বিমানের সীমাবদ্ধতার কথা যদি বলা হয় তাইলে বলা যায় এর রাডারের রেডিয়াস এবং রেঞ্জ।চীনের নির্মিত Y-8 বিমানে যে রাডার ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে তা ৩০০ ডিগ্রি কাভার দিতে সক্ষম এবং রেঞ্জ ৩০০ কিমি।এছাড়া এটি বাদ যাওয়ার অন্যতম কারন পাইলটদের চাইনিজ জিনিসের প্রতি অনীহা।
> 
> অন্যদিকে CASA CN-295 AEW&C অথবা C-130 AEW&C বিমানের কাভারেজ ৩৬০ ডিগ্রি এবং রেঞ্জ ভার্সন ও রাডার অনুসারে ৫০০ কিমি পর্যন্ত। এছাড়া বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী চাইনিজ পরিবহন বিমান ব্যবহার করে নি,তাছাড়া AEW&C বেশ sophisticated জিনিস।তাই বুঝেশুঝে কেনা হচ্ছে।
> 
> অনেকে আমাদের প্রশ্ন করেছেন AEW&C কি এবং এর কাজ কি?
> 
> AEW&C মানে Airborne Early Warning & Control. এক কথায় "উড়ন্ত রাডার"।এই সিস্টেমে একটি বিমানের উপর রাডার মাউন্টেন থাকে।এটি যেকোন এরিয়াল সাসপেক্ট বা সম্ভাব্য শত্রু বিমান নির্নয় ও তা বিনাশ করার ব্যবস্থা করে থাকে।
> 
> এখন এর ব্যবহার এবং বাংলাদেশের জন্য কতটুকু উপযুক্ত তা যদি জানতে চান তাহলে শুনুন-
> 
> সাধারনত যেকোন আকাশসীমায় যুদ্ধবিমান এবং অন্যান্য সামরিক আকাশযান ডিটেক্ট করার কাজ রাডারের।কিন্তু আপনার শত্রুর হাতে যদি Anti-Radiation Missile (ARM) থাকে তাহলে অনেক দুর থেকেই আপনার রাডার ধ্বংস বা জ্যামিং সিস্টেমের মাধ্যমে অকার্যকর করে দিতে পারে।এক্ষেত্রে AEW&C বিমানের অবস্থান,গতিবিধি নিকটস্থ বেইসে জানালে এয়ারডিফেন্স আর্টিলারী, SAM বা ইন্টারসেপ্টর ফাইটার ব্যবস্থা নিতে পারবে।
> 
> এছাড়া গ্রাউন্ড ফোর্সের যদি এয়ার সাপোর্টের দরকার হয় সেই হিসেবে গ্রাউন্ড ফোর্স এবং গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক জেটের মধ্যে "ভায়া" হিসেবে কাজ করে AEW&C
> 
> নৌবাহিনীর ক্ষেত্রে যদি শত্রু বিমান,জাহাজ আসে তাহলে নেভি শিপ,সাবমেরিন এবং কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স সিস্টেমকে সব তথ্য সরবরাহ করবে AEW&C.
> 
> তবে যদি ব্যক্তিগত মতামতের কথা জিজ্ঞাসা করেন তাহলে CASA CN-295 AEW&C কেই এগিয়ে রাখা যায়।কারন বাংলাদেশ আর্মি এভিয়েশন already এই বিমান ব্যবহার করবে।তবে এই বিমানের রাডার ইজরাইলের নির্মিত।যদি ইজরাইলী রাডার নেয় তাইলে কোন থার্ড পার্টি বা অন্য দেশ থেকে কিনে ব্যবহার করতে হবে।
> 
> C-130 AEW&C. as the are on old airframes, chances are slim এর সম্ভাবনা কম।যদি কিনে তাহলে লেটেস্ট মডেলের বদলে পুরানো এয়ারফ্রেম ব্যবহার করবে।*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 422974



the first 2 reasons are unreasonable. why chose KJ-200 if you they want 360 coverage and longer range. they could have chosen KJ-500. KJ-500 specs are below,

http://www.deagel.com/Support-Aircraft/KJ-500_a002124002.aspx

KJ-500 radar offers 360 coverage with a max detection range of 470km. the radar is Chinese made so no reason to go for israeli made radar with a third party deal. as for performance and reliability; I think Chinese systems are more than enough for our air force. rather than going for much more expensive western equipment these can be procured. PAF is a foreign customer of ZDK-03 which was developed into much more capable KJ-500.
why do the BAF pilots look down on Chinese equipment is beyond my understanding, when even the US is concerned of their technological advancement.
IMO, there is some political influence behind this change of mind!!!




Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 
> 
> 
> *বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য চীনে নির্মিত Shaanxi Y-8 AEW&C has been cancelled বিমান কেনার কথা থাকলেও শেষ মুহুর্তে বিমানবাহিনী তা বাতিল করতে যাচ্ছে। এর কারন হিসেবে বিভিন্ন সীমাবদ্ধতার কথা জানা গেছে।
> 
> এখন চীনের বদলে বিমানবাহিনী স্পেনে নির্মিত instead Spanish manufactured CASA CN-295 AEW&C অথবা মার্কিন যুক্তরাষ্ট্রে নির্মিত or Lockheed C-130 AEW&C কিনবে বলে শোনা যাচ্ছে।
> 
> চীনা বিমানের সীমাবদ্ধতার কথা যদি বলা হয় তাইলে বলা যায় এর রাডারের রেডিয়াস এবং রেঞ্জ।চীনের নির্মিত Y-8 বিমানে যে রাডার ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে তা ৩০০ ডিগ্রি কাভার দিতে সক্ষম এবং রেঞ্জ ৩০০ কিমি।এছাড়া এটি বাদ যাওয়ার অন্যতম কারন পাইলটদের চাইনিজ জিনিসের প্রতি অনীহা।
> 
> অন্যদিকে CASA CN-295 AEW&C অথবা C-130 AEW&C বিমানের কাভারেজ ৩৬০ ডিগ্রি এবং রেঞ্জ ভার্সন ও রাডার অনুসারে ৫০০ কিমি পর্যন্ত। এছাড়া বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী চাইনিজ পরিবহন বিমান ব্যবহার করে নি,তাছাড়া AEW&C বেশ sophisticated জিনিস।তাই বুঝেশুঝে কেনা হচ্ছে।
> 
> অনেকে আমাদের প্রশ্ন করেছেন AEW&C কি এবং এর কাজ কি?
> 
> AEW&C মানে Airborne Early Warning & Control. এক কথায় "উড়ন্ত রাডার"।এই সিস্টেমে একটি বিমানের উপর রাডার মাউন্টেন থাকে।এটি যেকোন এরিয়াল সাসপেক্ট বা সম্ভাব্য শত্রু বিমান নির্নয় ও তা বিনাশ করার ব্যবস্থা করে থাকে।
> 
> এখন এর ব্যবহার এবং বাংলাদেশের জন্য কতটুকু উপযুক্ত তা যদি জানতে চান তাহলে শুনুন-
> 
> সাধারনত যেকোন আকাশসীমায় যুদ্ধবিমান এবং অন্যান্য সামরিক আকাশযান ডিটেক্ট করার কাজ রাডারের।কিন্তু আপনার শত্রুর হাতে যদি Anti-Radiation Missile (ARM) থাকে তাহলে অনেক দুর থেকেই আপনার রাডার ধ্বংস বা জ্যামিং সিস্টেমের মাধ্যমে অকার্যকর করে দিতে পারে।এক্ষেত্রে AEW&C বিমানের অবস্থান,গতিবিধি নিকটস্থ বেইসে জানালে এয়ারডিফেন্স আর্টিলারী, SAM বা ইন্টারসেপ্টর ফাইটার ব্যবস্থা নিতে পারবে।
> 
> এছাড়া গ্রাউন্ড ফোর্সের যদি এয়ার সাপোর্টের দরকার হয় সেই হিসেবে গ্রাউন্ড ফোর্স এবং গ্রাউন্ড এট্যাক জেটের মধ্যে "ভায়া" হিসেবে কাজ করে AEW&C
> 
> নৌবাহিনীর ক্ষেত্রে যদি শত্রু বিমান,জাহাজ আসে তাহলে নেভি শিপ,সাবমেরিন এবং কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স সিস্টেমকে সব তথ্য সরবরাহ করবে AEW&C.
> 
> তবে যদি ব্যক্তিগত মতামতের কথা জিজ্ঞাসা করেন তাহলে CASA CN-295 AEW&C কেই এগিয়ে রাখা যায়।কারন বাংলাদেশ আর্মি এভিয়েশন already এই বিমান ব্যবহার করবে।তবে এই বিমানের রাডার ইজরাইলের নির্মিত।যদি ইজরাইলী রাডার নেয় তাইলে কোন থার্ড পার্টি বা অন্য দেশ থেকে কিনে ব্যবহার করতে হবে।
> 
> C-130 AEW&C. as the are on old airframes, chances are slim এর সম্ভাবনা কম।যদি কিনে তাহলে লেটেস্ট মডেলের বদলে পুরানো এয়ারফ্রেম ব্যবহার করবে।*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 422974



the first 2 reasons are unreasonable. why chose KJ-200 if you they want 360 coverage and longer range. they could have chosen KJ-500. KJ-500 specs are below,

http://www.deagel.com/Support-Aircraft/KJ-500_a002124002.aspx

KJ-500 radar offers 360 coverage with a max detection range of 470km. the radar is Chinese made so no reason to go for israeli made radar with a third party deal. as for performance and reliability; I think Chinese systems are more than enough for our air force. rather than going for much more expensive western equipment these can be procured. PAF is a foreign customer of ZDK-03 which was developed into much more capable KJ-500.
why do the BAF pilots look down on Chinese equipment is beyond my understanding, when even the US is concerned of their technological advancement.
IMO, there is some political influence behind this change of mind!!!

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## Banglar Bir

BanglarBagh said:


> the first 2 reasons are unreasonable. why chose KJ-200 if you they want 360 coverage and longer range. they could have chosen KJ-500. KJ-500 specs are below.
> *IMO, there is some political influence behind this change of mind!!!*


That's also my gut feeling,let's wait and see what the final decision stands.

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## bdslph

we are shifting too much on the EU USA things if ever there is a situation then good luck we are screwed

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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> why do the BAF pilots look down on Chinese equipment is beyond my understanding


Because more Bengali pilots died flying their death coffins than any other did. Lmao 

But Chinese manufacturing has improved a lot since then. But still common platforms should be bought.


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## BanglarBagh

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Because more Bengali pilots died flying their death coffins than any other did. Lmao
> 
> But Chinese manufacturing has improved a lot since then. But still common platforms should be bought.



Yes, I understand your point. But, that was maybe 2 decades ago! since, then Chinese technology and manufacturing quality has come a long way. and right now the overall quality of Chinese defense products is not something to be looked down on!!

As for common platform; the procurement of CASA-295 for BA triggers the AEW&C version procurement for BAF. I have no qualms with that. It is a good choice, but my problem is with third party deal for Israeli radar. Maybe, that can be fixed by getting the radar from China or Russia to custom fix on the C-295!!!


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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> Yes, I understand your point. But, that was maybe 2 decades ago! since, then Chinese technology and manufacturing quality has come a long way. and right now the overall quality of Chinese defense products is not something to be looked down on!!
> 
> As for common platform; the procurement of CASA-295 for BA triggers the AEW&C version procurement for BAF. I have no qualms with that. It is a good choice, but my problem is with third party deal for Israeli radar. Maybe, that can be fixed by getting the radar from China or Russia to custom fix on the C-295!!!


Why you're so butt hurt about Israeli radar? We already use weapons that had their basis designed in Israel or by Israeli engineers.


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## mb444

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Why you're so butt hurt about Israeli radar? We already use weapons that had their basis designed in Israel or by Israeli engineers.




It is better to buy from China who are not dependent on anyone else for permission to sell.

China is a trusted friend and in times of war can not be bullied by others. 

I would go all Chinese personally. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for us. 

Western platforms comes with strings that would inhibit operational freedom thus compromise BD sovereignty


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## BanglarBagh

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Why you're so butt hurt about Israeli radar? We already use weapons that had their basis designed in Israel or by Israeli engineers.



If we can buy it directly from the manufacturer then we should. But for Israel products we have to include third party deal. thus the deal becomes more expensive and complex in the process. and it also comes with so many strings attached! 
If BAF really wants Israeli radar it should make a direct deal with Israel. that's all I'm saying. 
and as for being butt hurt which I'm really not it comes from a distrust of Israeli people. not because of the longstanding Muslim World vs Israel saga but personal experiences of meeting and interacting with several Israel nationals!!!


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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> If we can buy it directly from the manufacturer then we should. But for Israel products we have to include third party deal. thus the deal becomes more expensive and complex in the process. and it also comes with so many strings attached!
> If BAF really wants Israeli radar it should make a direct deal with Israel. that's all I'm saying.
> and as for being butt hurt which I'm really not it comes from a distrust of Israeli people. not because of the longstanding Muslim World vs Israel saga but personal experiences of meeting and interacting with several Israel nationals!!!


I get you. Well personally I think even if we go with western awec... we would employ Chinese radars some of which has israeli tech in it without any problem. We first need to get that aircraft sans radar. Idk if such a deal is possible. I don't think China would be willing to sell radar like that. Or Spain the aircraft.



mb444 said:


> It is better to buy from China who are not dependent on anyone else for permission to sell.
> 
> China is a trusted friend and in times of war can not be bullied by others.
> 
> I would go all Chinese personally. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for us.
> 
> Western platforms comes with strings that would inhibit operational freedom thus compromise BD sovereignty


Well yeah because they can carbon copy literally anything on earth they can get their hands on. 

China is playing with Burma in the rohynga crisis. I wonder which side they choose if a conflict arises. Most probably us but then you never know. 

If we are going for that casa something aircraft with Chinese radars. I have no objection as it helps with ease of maintenance. 

Bd should above all start investing in different R&D to produce these in house further increasing our strength in sovereignty. 
In war situation country that has to import their weapons will lag behind significantly.

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## mb444

Without doubt the indigenous capacity is the way to proceed. 

BD has made some moves in this direction however in my opinion not anything of any substance.

In terms of rohingya, our national interest will never 100% align with others. We have to do what is right for us.

BD needs to a take an aggressive posture and fully be prepared to go inside Burma to secure a safe zone if necessary. 

World powers would not bat an eyelid.

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## Michael Corleone

Have anyone seen the latest video where Bangladeshi mig 29 are doing tail slide, pugachev cobras and other manoeuvres in skies of Bangladesh? Plus it's being done in high altitude and hard to observe without dslr camera or aid of optics.
Video was posted in bd military group in Facebook

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## Avicenna

CN-295 AEW is a gorgeous airplane. 

But I wonder about the compatibility of this with any potential SU-30 and J-10 platforms.

I wish Bangladesh would take a good look at the Gripen. Although access to Western BVR missiles would be a problem.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> CN-295 AEW is a gorgeous airplane.
> 
> But I wonder about the compatibility of this with any potential SU-30 and J-10 platforms.
> 
> I wish Bangladesh would take a good look at the Gripen. Although access to Western BVR missiles would be a problem.


One airforce officer states that f-16 is still under consideration and that airforce officers are divided on choice of j-10 or f-16


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## Nabil365

Mohammed Khaled said:


> One airforce officer states that f-16 is still under consideration and that airforce officers are divided on choice of j-10 or f-16


F-16 Blk 70 would be great.

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## Michael Corleone

Nabil365 said:


> F-16 Blk 70 would be great.


I'm sure the US would deny us again. And even if we do get it would be second hand frames. I'm not sure which path bd would take yet.

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## Avicenna

Mohammed Khaled said:


> One airforce officer states that f-16 is still under consideration and that airforce officers are divided on choice of j-10 or f-16



Why would the US release even second hand F-16s to Bangladesh?

That doesn't make sense geopolitically.

Bangladesh is limited to Chinese and Russian options. 

Although the Gripen would also be interesting. Unfortunately, it has a US based engine and would probably also require US approval, not to mention inavailability of AMRAAMS.

Still, a BAF with small amounts of Western gear would really be a game changer, if those capabilities were properly employed.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I'm sure the US would deny us again. And even if we do get it would be second hand frames. I'm not sure which path bd would take yet.



no aircraft with American strings attached..... out of the question....

this is what is required.... 


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/baf-buying-jf-17.485102/page-8#post-9318035


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> no aircraft with American strings attached..... out of the question....
> 
> this is what is required....
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/baf-buying-jf-17.485102/page-8#post-9318035


I would ask this if Burma didn't get one. J-10, 31 is my desire


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Why would the US release even second hand F-16s to Bangladesh?
> 
> That doesn't make sense geopolitically.
> 
> Bangladesh is limited to Chinese and Russian options.
> 
> Although the Gripen would also be interesting. Unfortunately, it has a US based engine and would probably also require US approval, not to mention inavailability of AMRAAMS.
> 
> Still, a BAF with small amounts of Western gear would really be a game changer, if those capabilities were properly employed.



And US wont mind a little cash on the side?

BD is not an enemy of US. It has sold to countries like Malaysia that are not exactly US allies.

As long as BD can put in a decent order for like 24 aircraft, then I cannot forsee any real reason for US to refuse.
What happened in the 1990s is a different time and place. I think the US was genuinely trying to save BD money for what it saw as little gain. Now BD's economy is far far larger and so can afford to pay for a decent amount of planes.

Personally I think BD would be stupid to go for F-16 when the J-10B that is almost as good, if not as good, is available at lower cost and no strings attached.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> And US wont mind a little cash on the side?
> 
> BD is not an enemy of US. It has sold to countries like Malaysia that are not exactly US allies.
> 
> As long as BD can put in a decent order for like 24 aircraft, then I cannot forsee any real reason for US to refuse.
> What happened in the 1990s is a different time and place. I think the US was genuinely trying to save BD money for what it saw as little gain. Now BD's economy is far far larger and so can afford to pay for a decent amount of planes.
> 
> Personally I think BD would be stupid to go for F-16 when the J-10B that is almost as good, if not as good, is available at lower cost and no strings attached.




I do not think BD can fork out cash for US birds. Chinese we would buy in easy terms and it's in Chinese interest to have a strong BD. 

I do not it's worth wasting time with US.

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## Avicenna

Like I said countless times before, the real game is between the US and China. India, Pakistan, Russia, Iran, Middle East and Central Asia are all pawns/players. Bangladesh and Myanmar are as well but on a lesser level. 

In that context, what does the US have to gain by granting access to American fighters to Bangladesh? Not sure. Cash ain't a thing because it's a pittance the amount would be.

China on the other hand may want a stronger Bangladesh for their own reasons. As well as a Bangladesh that at least isn't friendly to India, if not neutral. I am surprised the Chinese havnt influenced Bengali politics by helping the BNP.

In terms of the BAF, it would be great to have a small amount of very modern western systems in addition to Chinese systems to make up the majority of the fleet and armaments. 

But no matter what is bought, the key will be training, effective tactics and strategy, as well as political willingness to use these forces. 

Right now that is clearly lacking, at least the political aspect.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Like I said countless times before, the real game is between the US and China. India, Pakistan, Russia, Iran, Middle East and Central Asia are all pawns/players. Bangladesh and Myanmar are as well but on a lesser level.
> 
> In that context, what does the US have to gain by granting access to American fighters to Bangladesh? Not sure. Cash ain't a thing because it's a pittance the amount would be.
> 
> China on the other hand may want a stronger Bangladesh for their own reasons. As well as a Bangladesh that at least isn't friendly to India, if not neutral. I am surprised the Chinese havnt influenced Bengali politics by helping the BNP.
> 
> In terms of the BAF, it would be great to have a small amount of very modern western systems in addition to Chinese systems to make up the majority of the fleet and armaments.
> 
> But no matter what is bought, the key will be training, effective tactics and strategy, as well as political willingness to use these forces.
> 
> Right now that is clearly lacking, at least the political aspect.


You are still counting F-16 as per F-35.
USA for sure will not sell F-22 to anyone. BD can't lay hand on F-35 neither USA will sell them. But 60's F-16 they will sell to anybody with decent track record and cash.


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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> You are still counting F-16 as per F-35.
> USA for sure will not sell F-22 to anyone. BD can't lay hand on F-35 neither USA will sell them. But 60's F-16 they will sell to anybody with decent track record and cash.



Nope. Unless there is some dramatic geopolitical shift, I can't see the US ever releasing the F-16, as old as it is, to Bangladesh.

The only caveat is that Trump is president and that he may be in favor is such a move for profits purposes. It would still have to get through congress and you can be sure the India lobby wouldn't allow that. 

Also, I doubt Bangladesh can afford a sizable number of new build F-16s, and a smaller amount wouldn't be enough of an enticement to get Trump excited.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I would ask this if Burma didn't get one. J-10, 31 is my desire


Pakistani shouldn't have listed to the CIA agents.... they guessed this beforehand and thats why suggested fighter sales to Myanmar; so that animosity with Bangladesh increases and Bangladesh goes further from JF-17.... its quite obvious that American strategic partner India is the biggest beneficiary of this malicious deal...

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> Pakistani shouldn't have listed to the CIA agents.... they guessed this beforehand and thats why suggested fighter sales to Myanmar; so that animosity with Bangladesh increases and Bangladesh goes further from JF-17.... its quite obvious that American strategic partner India is the biggest beneficiary of this malicious deal...


Ofc. Then they offer India to build f-16 with a new potential market near home... Bangladesh. Which makes America and India more profit.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> In terms of the BAF, it would be great to have a small amount of very modern western systems in addition to Chinese systems to make up the majority of the fleet and armaments.



Guys I'm no fighter or air force expert, but what I do know that every air force needs a high cost/ low cost air superiority fighter mix. In Pakistan's case, it is F16 BLOCK 70/ JF 17. In India's case it is SU30 MKI/ RAFALE.

WHAT will be the mix for Bangladesh?



Avicenna said:


> China on the other hand may want a stronger Bangladesh for their own reasons. As well as a Bangladesh that at least isn't friendly to India, if not neutral. I am surprised the Chinese havnt influenced Bengali politics by helping the BNP.



China is simply biding time - they have the luxury. Economically and technologically they are AT LEAST three decades ahead of Bharat.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Bilal9 said:


> Guys I'm no fighter or air force expert, but what I do know that every air force needs a high cost/ low cost air superiority fighter mix. In Pakistan's case, it is F16 BLOCK 70/ JF 17. In India's case it is SU30 MKI/ RAFALE.
> 
> WHAT will be the mix for Bangladesh?
> 
> 
> 
> China is simply biding time - they have the luxury. Economically and technologically they are AT LEAST three decades ahead of Bharat.


i think SU 30 & J10B otherwise BD has no choice. BD should not go for Mig 35. other one choice is SU 35, at this moment BD will not buy. no possibility of western aircraft.


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## Bilal9

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> i think SU 30 & J10B otherwise BD has no choice. BD should not go for Mig 35. other one choice is SU 35, at this moment BD will not buy. no possibility of western aircraft.



By the time we decide J10C may be available like someone mentioned.

But I doubt the PLA air force will be that eager to export its best technology to a country (and possibly even air force) infiltrated by Indians.

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## Avicenna

At this point, to me it's almost pointless this debate on which fighters Bangladesh is going to buy.

What good is it with an Indian stooge as PM?

First step is to take back the country.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> In India's case it is SU30 MKI/ RAFALE.


in india's case both are expensive and hence why you see them struggling to keep up their sqd number.



Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> other one choice is SU 35


su 35 is more heavier variant of that series and cost more.... some 1 billion for 12 jets i think that indonesia is buying.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Mohammed Khaled said:


> in india's case both are expensive and hence why you see them struggling to keep up their sqd number.
> 
> 
> su 35 is more heavier variant of that series and cost more.... some 1 billion for 12 jets i think that indonesia is buying.


despite of that u need something good birds, if it may small no. but ur enemy will think twice.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Ofc. Then they offer India to build f-16 with a new potential market near home... Bangladesh. Which makes America and India more profit.



not only that.... think about the potential usage area for the F-16.... 
on whom would those be used?


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## Michael Corleone

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> despite of that u need something good birds, if it may small no. but ur enemy will think twice.


yes but 1 can't fight 10 alone. number is needed as well.



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> not only that.... think about the potential usage area for the F-16....
> on whom would those be used?


eh well, china has superior birds now, so most likely agaisnt pak and bd. although bd won't be a huge focus as msot of india's sqd are concentrated to protect high value areas from pakistan and china.


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## Avicenna

Mohammed Khaled said:


> yes but 1 can't fight 10 alone. number is needed as well.
> 
> 
> eh well, china has superior birds now, so most likely agaisnt pak and bd. although bd won't be a huge focus as msot of india's sqd are concentrated to protect high value areas from pakistan and china.



Might as well buy some unarmed gliders.

There's no political will to use these fancy toys.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Might as well buy some unarmed gliders.
> 
> There's no political will to use these fancy toys.


Well, why spend a dime. Kids can make them some paper kites. 

Hasina doesn't have balls. (Literally and figuratively)

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## ziaulislam

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I would ask this if Burma didn't get one. J-10, 31 is my desire


Not gona happen relations not good between Bangladesh and Pakistan now


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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> Not gona happen relations not good between Bangladesh and Pakistan now


I know. We don't want those either. Maybe 6-8 years back when we got the f-7 bgi not needed anymore.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

After AL govt. in power 2009 if BAF bought SU 30 instead of F7BGI then today it will serve better than today fleet as per current situation. always need better future planing. we know we have limited budget despite of that we have to go ahead. BD need to take learn from present situation & need to set a future plan for stand up own foot when nobody with us.

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## UKBengali

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> After AL govt. in power 2009 if BAF bought SU 30 instead of F7BGI then today it will serve better than today fleet as per current situation. always need better future planing. we know we have limited budget despite of that we have to go ahead. BD need to take learn from present situation & need to set a future plan for stand up own foot when nobody with us.



Do you think Awami League even cares about
standing on own two feet?
Even if they had the weaponry available I am not sure they will want to use them.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

We heard that Fighter jet & Frigates are deployed in MM land & sea border . but any news about army deployment not heard.



UKBengali said:


> Do you think Awami League even cares about
> standing on own two feet?
> Even if they had the weaponry available I am not sure they will want to use them.


i think main reason is next election & domestic foreign policy.


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## Banglar Bir

SK tv
Published on Sep 12, 2017


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## chatterjee

Banglar Bir said:


> SK tv
> Published on Sep 12, 2017


U should change your name to Banglar Modon


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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> SK tv
> Published on Sep 12, 2017


U know sktv is bullshit right? Don't lose your credibility by entertaining false news brother.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Mohammed Khaled said:


> eh well, china has superior birds now, so most likely agaisnt pak and bd. although bd won't be a huge focus as msot of india's sqd are concentrated to protect high value areas from pakistan and china.



why would India be fielding its top squadrons against 8 MiG-29s and a few F-7s?.... any particular concern for them?


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## Avicenna

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> why would India be fielding its top squadrons against 8 MiG-29s and a few F-7s?.... any particular concern for them?



Pretty sure it has nothing to do with BAF.


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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> why would India be fielding its top squadrons against 8 MiG-29s and a few F-7s?.... any particular concern for them?


Ofc not


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## ghost250



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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 425799
> View attachment 425800



Don't tell me we're getting AW-101's.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> Don't tell me we're getting AW-101's.



well, I'm not thinking about the aircraft.... I'm thinking about what platform would be carrying them....

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## Bilal9

If you 


Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, I'm not thinking about the aircraft.... I'm thinking about what platform would be carrying them....


If you mean frigates, it will be the new larger frigates to be built locally, AFAIK......the one variant to get would be the hm1 used by the Royal Navy, very effective anti-sub platform.

By the way India and Indonesia both use it by now.


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB

Vympel R-27 BVR missile and BAF এবং বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী।

Vympel R-27 are Russian made মুলত রাশিয়ার নির্মিত লং রেঞ্জ BVR (Beyond Visual Range) Air to Air Missiles এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল। এটি বিশ্বব্যাপী ব্যবহৃত একটি BVR মিসাইল।

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ১৯৯৯ back in 1999, these Missiles were purchased along with the সালে রাশিয়া থেকে MiG-29 যুদ্ধবিমান কেনার সময়ে এই মিসাইল কিনে।
আমাদের দেশের কিছু ফেইসবুক জেনারেল, এয়ারমার্শাল এর মতে "বিমানবাহিনীর হাতে যথেষ্ট পরিমানে এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল নেই".....তাদের জন্য-

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ১৯৯৯ সালে বিমানের সাথে বেশ কিছু R-27, R-73 মিসাইল কিনে। ২০১০ সালে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য অন্যান্য মিসাইলের পাশাপাশি ৮০ টা Vympel R-27 BVR কেনা হয় মিগ-২৯ এর জন্য।
In 2011 BAF purchased numerious ২০১১ সালে চীন থেকে ব্যপক পরিমানChinise manufactured PL-5E, PL-7 Missiles কেনা হয়।
During 2013 BAF purchased Chinise ২০১৩ সালে F-7BGI এর সাথে আসে সর্বাধুনিক latest made PL-9 Missiles মিসাইল।The same year, significany A2A Missiles were purchased from Russia under the US $ 1 Billion credit ২০১৩ সালে রাশিয়ার সাথে ১ বিলিয়ন ডলারের সামরিক চুক্তির আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য বিপুল পরিমান এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল কেনা হয়।

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর after upgradation of the existing fleet of MiG-29's কে আপগ্রেড করার পর আরো অত্যাধুনিক ও দুরপাল্লার long range Vympel R-77 BVR Missiles will be procured কেনা হবে।

এখন প্রতিটি মিসাইলেরই একটা নির্দিষ্ট মেয়াদ থাকে।সাধারনত সেটা ৮-১০ বছর হয়।এর মধ্যে যদি মিসাইলটি ফায়ার না করা হয় তাহলে সেটি বাতিল হয়ে যায়।তবে মিসাইলের "মোটর প্রোপালেন্ট" চেঞ্জ করে ওভারহোলিং করলে এর সার্ভিস লাইফ বাড়ানো সম্ভব।

তাই অযথা গুজবে কান দিবেন না.....বিমানবাহিনীর আপকামিং ফাইটার জেটের জন্যও মিসাইল মজুদ করা আছে।চিন্তার কোন কারন নেই*





*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*

*অনেকেই আমাদের কাছে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ব্যবহৃত অস্ত্র, ক্ষেপনাস্ত্র নিয়ে পোস্ট চেয়েছেন।আজ বিমানবাহিনীর ব্যবহৃত বিভিন্ন অস্ত্র নিয়ে আলোচনা করবো-
Weapons used by BAF:



♦ক্ষুদ্রাস্ত্র- Small Arms
>Type 92 Semi-automatic pistol
>Walther PPK Semi-automatic pistol
>Glock-17/18 pistol
>Type-56 Assult Rifle
>BD-08 Assult Rifle
>Taurus SMT-9 SMG
>Type-56 LMG
>Type-80 LMG
>SPAS-12 Shotguns




♦Heavy Machine Gun
>FN-MAG
>PKM




♦Anti-tank Weapons
>RPG-7




♦Sniper Rifle
>Type-85/SDV Dragonov (DMR)
>Falcon bolt action Sniper




♦Multiple Grenade Launcher
>Milkor MGL




♦Air Defence Missiles
>FM-90 SHORAD (3 regiments)
>FN-16 MANPAD
>LY-80E [on order]
>S-300/HQ-9 (LRSAM candidates)




♦Air to Air Missile (with range)
>PL-2 (6-10km)
>PL-5E (18km)
>PL-7 (14km)
>PL-9 (23km)
>Vympel R-60 (8km)
>Vympel R-73 (30-40km)
>Vympel R-27 BVR (80-130km)
>Vympel R-77 BVR [upcoming] (80-193km)




♦Anti-Radiation Missile
>Kh-31P (110km) [upcoming]




♦Anti-ship Missile
>Kh-35 AshM (130-300km) [upcoming]




♦Bombs
>KAB-500 TV Guided Bomb
>KAB-1500L (Upcoming)
>LS PGB
>LT PGB
>OFAB-100-120
>OFAB 250-270
>Various Unguided Bombs & Rockets.*


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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> 
> Vympel R-27 BVR missile and BAF এবং বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী।
> 
> Vympel R-27 are Russian made মুলত রাশিয়ার নির্মিত লং রেঞ্জ BVR (Beyond Visual Range) Air to Air Missiles এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল। এটি বিশ্বব্যাপী ব্যবহৃত একটি BVR মিসাইল।
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ১৯৯৯ back in 1999, these Missiles were purchased along with the সালে রাশিয়া থেকে MiG-29 যুদ্ধবিমান কেনার সময়ে এই মিসাইল কিনে।
> আমাদের দেশের কিছু ফেইসবুক জেনারেল, এয়ারমার্শাল এর মতে "বিমানবাহিনীর হাতে যথেষ্ট পরিমানে এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল নেই".....তাদের জন্য-
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ১৯৯৯ সালে বিমানের সাথে বেশ কিছু R-27, R-73 মিসাইল কিনে। ২০১০ সালে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য অন্যান্য মিসাইলের পাশাপাশি ৮০ টা Vympel R-27 BVR কেনা হয় মিগ-২৯ এর জন্য।
> In 2011 BAF purchased numerious ২০১১ সালে চীন থেকে ব্যপক পরিমানChinise manufactured PL-5E, PL-7 Missiles কেনা হয়।
> During 2013 BAF purchased Chinise ২০১৩ সালে F-7BGI এর সাথে আসে সর্বাধুনিক latest made PL-9 Missiles মিসাইল।The same year, significany A2A Missiles were purchased from Russia under the US $ 1 Billion credit ২০১৩ সালে রাশিয়ার সাথে ১ বিলিয়ন ডলারের সামরিক চুক্তির আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য বিপুল পরিমান এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল কেনা হয়।
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর after upgradation of the existing fleet of MiG-29's কে আপগ্রেড করার পর আরো অত্যাধুনিক ও দুরপাল্লার long range Vympel R-77 BVR Missiles will be procured কেনা হবে।
> 
> এখন প্রতিটি মিসাইলেরই একটা নির্দিষ্ট মেয়াদ থাকে।সাধারনত সেটা ৮-১০ বছর হয়।এর মধ্যে যদি মিসাইলটি ফায়ার না করা হয় তাহলে সেটি বাতিল হয়ে যায়।তবে মিসাইলের "মোটর প্রোপালেন্ট" চেঞ্জ করে ওভারহোলিং করলে এর সার্ভিস লাইফ বাড়ানো সম্ভব।
> 
> তাই অযথা গুজবে কান দিবেন না.....বিমানবাহিনীর আপকামিং ফাইটার জেটের জন্যও মিসাইল মজুদ করা আছে।চিন্তার কোন কারন নেই*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 
> *অনেকেই আমাদের কাছে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ব্যবহৃত অস্ত্র, ক্ষেপনাস্ত্র নিয়ে পোস্ট চেয়েছেন।আজ বিমানবাহিনীর ব্যবহৃত বিভিন্ন অস্ত্র নিয়ে আলোচনা করবো-
> Weapons used by BAF:
> 
> 
> 
> ♦ক্ষুদ্রাস্ত্র- Small Arms
> >Type 92 Semi-automatic pistol
> >Walther PPK Semi-automatic pistol
> >Glock-17/18 pistol
> >Type-56 Assult Rifle
> >BD-08 Assult Rifle
> >Taurus SMT-9 SMG
> >Type-56 LMG
> >Type-80 LMG
> >SPAS-12 Shotguns
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Heavy Machine Gun
> >FN-MAG
> >PKM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Anti-tank Weapons
> >RPG-7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Sniper Rifle
> >Type-85/SDV Dragonov (DMR)
> >Falcon bolt action Sniper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Multiple Grenade Launcher
> >Milkor MGL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Air Defence Missiles
> >FM-90 SHORAD (3 regiments)
> >FN-16 MANPAD
> >LY-80E [on order]
> >S-300/HQ-9 (LRSAM candidates)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Air to Air Missile (with range)
> >PL-2 (6-10km)
> >PL-5E (18km)
> >PL-7 (14km)
> >PL-9 (23km)
> >Vympel R-60 (8km)
> >Vympel R-73 (30-40km)
> >Vympel R-27 BVR (80-130km)
> >Vympel R-77 BVR [upcoming] (80-193km)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Anti-Radiation Missile
> >Kh-31P (110km) [upcoming]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Anti-ship Missile
> >Kh-35 AshM (130-300km) [upcoming]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦Bombs
> >KAB-500 TV Guided Bomb
> >KAB-1500L (Upcoming)
> >LS PGB
> >LT PGB
> >OFAB-100-120
> >OFAB 250-270
> >Various Unguided Bombs & Rockets.*


Is the weapons bay on the whole fleet common? Can Russian missiles be fired by Chinese or Chinese missiles fired by Russian aircrafts in the fleet?


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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Is the weapons bay on the whole fleet common? Can Russian missiles be fired by Chinese or Chinese missiles fired by Russian aircrafts in the fleet?



I doubt this sort of weapons integration would work without very extensive customization.....

Unless of course the Chinese Missiles are copies of Russian ones and uses the same control software, firing command sequence, fire-control radar signal commonality etc. etc.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB 

চাইনিজ Chinese CH-4B UCAV along with their Armaments এবং তার অস্ত্রসস্ত্র

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী চীন থেকে BAF will purchase 4 X UAV কিনবে এই বছরে যা অনেক আগেই বলা হয়েছে।সেই হিসেবে অনেকের মতে CH-4B UCAV অনেক এগিয়ে আছে।এটির সর্বোচ্চ রেঞ্জRange 3500-5000 km ৩৫০০-৫০০০ কিমি এবং টানা 30-40 flying hours ৩০-৪০ ঘন্টা উড়তে সক্ষম।ভুমি থেকে ৫০০০ মিটার উপরে উঠতে পারে।এটির 6 X hardpoints Capable of various Missiles+ bombs ৬ টি হার্ডপয়েন্ট আছে যাতে বিভিন্ন বোমা ও মিসাইল বহন করতে পারে।

আর সবচেয়ে ভালো খবর হলো বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য Good news is that BAC manufactured (বঙ্গবন্ধু এরোনটিকাল সেন্টার) যে Surveillance UAV has already entered into service বানানোর কথা ছিলো তা ইতিমধ্যে সার্ভিসে চলে এসেছে।দেশে বানানো নতুন UAV টি ২০১৮ তে আসার কথা থাকলেও এই বছরেই চলে এসেছে এবং আগের BAC Buzz থেকে অনেক উন্নত,সাইজে বড় ও শক্তিশালী।*

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## Bilal9



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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> 
> চাইনিজ Chinese CH-4B UCAV along with their Armaments এবং তার অস্ত্রসস্ত্র
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী চীন থেকে BAF will purchase 4 X UAV কিনবে এই বছরে যা অনেক আগেই বলা হয়েছে।সেই হিসেবে অনেকের মতে CH-4B UCAV অনেক এগিয়ে আছে।এটির সর্বোচ্চ রেঞ্জRange 3500-5000 km ৩৫০০-৫০০০ কিমি এবং টানা 30-40 flying hours ৩০-৪০ ঘন্টা উড়তে সক্ষম।ভুমি থেকে ৫০০০ মিটার উপরে উঠতে পারে।এটির 6 X hardpoints Capable of various Missiles+ bombs ৬ টি হার্ডপয়েন্ট আছে যাতে বিভিন্ন বোমা ও মিসাইল বহন করতে পারে।
> 
> আর সবচেয়ে ভালো খবর হলো বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য Good news is that BAC manufactured (বঙ্গবন্ধু এরোনটিকাল সেন্টার) যে Surveillance UAV has already entered into service বানানোর কথা ছিলো তা ইতিমধ্যে সার্ভিসে চলে এসেছে।দেশে বানানো নতুন UAV টি ২০১৮ তে আসার কথা থাকলেও এই বছরেই চলে এসেছে এবং আগের BAC Buzz থেকে অনেক উন্নত,সাইজে বড় ও শক্তিশালী।*


Do you have the picture of the indigenous drone.


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## Banglar Bir

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Do you have the picture of the indigenous drone.


Sabr, bro Sabr.

*বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর L-39ZA এর সাথে R-73 short range training Air to Air Missile*
*L-39ZA মুলত জেট প্রশিক্ষন বিমান হলেও এটি বিভিন্ন মিসাইল,রকেট ও বোমাও বহন করতে পারে।শুধু তাই নয়, আমাদের K-8w বিমানও PL-2 Short range AA missile বহন করে।*


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> If you
> 
> If you mean frigates, it will be the new larger frigates to be built locally, AFAIK......the one variant to get would be the hm1 used by the Royal Navy, very effective anti-sub platform.
> 
> By the way India and Indonesia both use it by now.



frigates are not likely to carry troops.....

and you won't need such huge and expensive ASW helicopters unless your frigates or destroyers carry some expensive sonars like hull-mounded MF or tower array.... and of course your targets are nuclear SSBNs....

frigates will carry AW159.... nimble and effective for medium-size ships....


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## Nike

Though Indonesia using bell 412, Panther and Bolcow as organic copter on their frigate or Corvette. AW101 is heavy class, and only AF using it. 

BD should go for Panther or the Dauphin


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## Michael Corleone

madokafc said:


> Though Indonesia using bell 412, Panther and Bolcow as organic copter on their frigate or Corvette. AW101 is heavy class, and only AF using it.
> 
> BD should go for Panther or the Dauphin


i think we already use dauphin in the navy.

edit:army we use em in the army


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## Jinn Baba

If Pakistan and Bangladesh had better relations, the JF17 (especially upcoming block 3) would have been perfect for you guys.

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## Banglar Bir

Jinn Baba said:


> If Pakistan and Bangladesh had better relations, the JF17 (especially upcoming block 3) would have been perfect for you guys.


InshaAllah, SABR brother, STRATEGIC partnership is the correct terminology.

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## UKBengali

Jinn Baba said:


> If Pakistan and Bangladesh had better relations, the JF17 (especially upcoming block 3) would have been perfect for you guys.



Not is is not.

JF-17 is known as the worst 4th generation fighter.

BD is most interested in the SU-30SME and the J-10B with AESA.


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## Major Sam

UKBengali said:


> Not is is not.
> 
> JF-17 is known as the worst 4th generation fighter.
> 
> BD is most interested in the SU-30SME and the J-10B with AESA.



living in lala land


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## Jinn Baba

UKBengali said:


> Not is is not.
> 
> JF-17 is known as the worst 4th generation fighter.
> 
> BD is most interested in the SU-30SME and the J-10B with AESA.



If it's reputation you want then buy yourselves some F22s. Everything else pales in comparison.

BUT if you want an aircraft that you can afford to induct in numbers, that is affordable to fly and maintain, and that gives you all the capabilities you need then that is the JF17.

Both the Su30 and J10 are larger, more expensive to buy and more expensive to maintain. The J10 has also not been sold by China to any other country, and may not be for sale.

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## UKBengali

Jinn Baba said:


> If it's reputation you want then buy yourselves some F22s. Everything else pales in comparison.
> 
> BUT if you want an aircraft that you can afford to induct in numbers, that is affordable to fly and maintain, and that gives you all the capabilities you need then that is the JF17.
> 
> Both the Su30 and J10 are larger, more expensive to buy and more expensive to maintain. The J10 has also not been sold by China to any other country, and may not be for sale.



BD wants better aircraft than Myanmar and ones the equal of Indian air force.

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## Michael Corleone

Jinn Baba said:


> If it's reputation you want then buy yourselves some F22s. Everything else pales in comparison.
> 
> BUT if you want an aircraft that you can afford to induct in numbers, that is affordable to fly and maintain, and that gives you all the capabilities you need then that is the JF17.
> 
> Both the Su30 and J10 are larger, more expensive to buy and more expensive to maintain. The J10 has also not been sold by China to any other country, and may not be for sale.


F22 pales in comparison to eurofighter and rafale in regards to electronics, its advantage is stealth though. 

Our requirements asks for an aircraft better than jf-17, china has already cleared j-10 a and b for sale to export market.

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## Banglar Bir

Defense Update Bangladesh
Published on Sep 20, 2017
Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) holds an air exercise using L-39 Albatros. This aircraft has been conduct ground strike training to augment forces capabilities. BAF operating seven L-39 Albatros primary trainer cum light attack aircrafts manufactured by the Aero Vodochody of Czechoslovakia. These aircrafts of Bangladesh Biman Bahini are armed to conduct light attack missions. Guided-unguided rockets, aerial bombs are the main weapons.

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB 
AW-101 Merlin along with String Ray torpedoes হেলিকপ্টারের সাথে স্টিং রে টর্পেডো।

শেষ খবর পাওয়া পর্যন্ত বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনী ব্রিটেন/ইটালি থেকে সম্ভবত ২ টি BN will purchase 2 X AW-101 Helicopters হেলিকপ্টার কিনবে।এগুলো একাধারে role in ASW হিসেবে এবং নেভাল স্পেশাল ফোর্স and SWADS ops এর জন্য কেনা হচ্ছে (স্পেশাল অপারেশনের জন্য)তবে কোন কিছুই এখনো ১০০% নিশ্চিত না।

এর আগে ব্রিটেন থেকে নৌবাহিনীর জন্য মোট ৪ টি (২ টি টেন্ডার এবং ২ টি G2G) AW-159 Wildcat purchased earlier from the U.K are scheduled to arrive in 2018 কেনা হয়েছে যা ২০১৮ সালে দেশে আসবে*


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## LuCiFeR_DeCoY

UKBengali said:


> Not is is not.
> 
> JF-17 is known as the worst 4th generation fighter.
> 
> BD is most interested in the SU-30SME and the *J-10B* with AESA.


You still favor Chinese aircraft after their support to Myanmar over Bangladesh for decades? There is little doubt that they will stop supplying ammunition if there is a Myanmar Bangladesh standoff like they did in 90's. We have to check our emotion and looks for alternative sources. 
There are a couple of aircraft project going on like South Korean KAI FX, Turkish TFX and others. They said KAI FX block 3 will be as stealthy as F35 and it will be cheaper. Our economy is growing steadily and we can afford four squadrons of quality aircraft to confront that radical country.

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## Avicenna

LuCiFeR_DeCoY said:


> You still favor Chinese aircraft after their support to Myanmar over Bangladesh for decades? There is little doubt that they will stop supplying ammunition if there is a Myanmar Bangladesh standoff like they did in 90's. We have to check our emotion and looks for alternative sources.
> There are a couple of aircraft project going on like South Korean KAI FX, Turkish TFX and others. They said KAI FX block 3 will be as stealthy as F35 and it will be cheaper. Our economy is growing steadily and we can afford four squadrons of quality aircraft to confront that radical country.



Agree. 

Diversify suppliers. Maybe a East-West mix of hardware may be more appropriate given the current situation.

In terms of the BAF, maybe small numbers of a Western type such as the Gripen? Not sure if politically feasible. But money talks. And if the Bangladeshi economy really is doing as well as you people say it is, financially its affordable. Botswana is supposedly looking for 8 Gripens. I think Bangladesh can afford it. Especially, in the context that BD spends so little a percentage of its GDP on the military to start with.

More important than what to buy however, is to have a government in place willing to use it.

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## UKBengali

LuCiFeR_DeCoY said:


> You still favor Chinese aircraft after their support to Myanmar over Bangladesh for decades? There is little doubt that they will stop supplying ammunition if there is a Myanmar Bangladesh standoff like they did in 90's. We have to check our emotion and looks for alternative sources.
> There are a couple of aircraft project going on like South Korean KAI FX, Turkish TFX and others. They said KAI FX block 3 will be as stealthy as F35 and it will be cheaper. Our economy is growing steadily and we can afford four squadrons of quality aircraft to confront that radical country.



Short term, BD has no choice but to go with China for cost/performance reasons. Long term, Turkey is the best bet with it's 5th generation fighter.
So by 2030, BD should be getting in order SU-30SME, J-10B and then Turkish TF-X.
As for resupply in times of war, BD needs to make sure it has plenty of stock of bombs and missiles and then it should be fine.


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## Avicenna

May need to re-assess MRCA due to political realities.

Russia and China have not been so helpful to Bangaldesh during this crisis.

Procurement has to be seen through a different political lense at this point from when that tender was originally placed.


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## Jinn Baba

Mohammed Khaled said:


> F22 pales in comparison to eurofighter and rafale in regards to electronics, its advantage is stealth though.
> 
> Our requirements asks for an aircraft better than jf-17, china has already cleared j-10 a and b for sale to export market.



Look at any air defence exercise in which F22s participated- they dominated the competition! Nothing beats it in the air superiority role.

But in a J10 vs JF17 competition, J10 is the better aircraft. I think the Chinese even found it to be better to their Su27s in air combat; so it would be a good addition to BAF if you can get them in good numbers.


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## Imran Khan

*i love the way PDF salesmen and costumers behave *


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## LuCiFeR_DeCoY

Avicenna said:


> Agree.
> 
> Diversify suppliers. Maybe a East-West mix of hardware may be more appropriate given the current situation.
> 
> In terms of the BAF, maybe small numbers of a Western type such as the Gripen? Not sure if politically feasible. But money talks. And if the Bangladeshi economy really is doing as well as you people say it is, financially its affordable. Botswana is supposedly looking for 8 Gripens. I think Bangladesh can afford it. Especially, in the context that BD spends so little a percentage of its GDP on the military to start with.
> 
> *More important than what to buy however, is to have a government in place willing to use it.*


Botswana's GDP is around 13 billion compared to BD's 248 billion, and our GDP growth is above 6% since last decade (7.24% in 2017).So I believe that we have better purchasing power than them. 
But you are right, what we buy is not more important than government's ability or desire to use them in a critical situation.



UKBengali said:


> Short term, BD has no choice but to go with China for cost/performance reasons. Long term, Turkey is the best bet with it's 5th generation fighter.
> So by 2030, BD should be getting in order *SU-30SME, J-10B* and then Turkish TF-X.
> As for resupply in times of war, BD needs to make sure it has plenty of stock of bombs and missiles and then it should be fine.


will it be cost effective to maintain two different kinds of aircraft despite we have migs. Turkey is so far the best option for us but their aircraft yet to pass the design phase.South Korean aircraft will be good enough for that radical nation as they won't be using F-22 or F-35 anytime soon.
And yes, China might be a short-term solution if we store plenty of necessary equipment. But what will be our option if the war goes more than a week or month?

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> May need to re-assess MRCA due to political realities.
> 
> Russia and China have not been so helpful to Bangaldesh during this crisis.
> 
> Procurement has to be seen through a different political lense at this point from when that tender was originally placed.



I understand where you are coming from but BD needs an aircraft like the SU-30SME that can carry large ordnance deep over the Bay of Bengal to support the BD Navy. Only other comparable aircraft is the F-15 and that would cost more and the US is unlikely to sell it to BD anyway.

Any war with Myanmar is likely to be short and sharp as BD should have built up overwhelming military superiority over them by 2025, even before the "Forces Goal 2030" plan is completed.

J-10B would come in very handy as it can be used against both Myanmar and will be an excellent deterrent to Indian dreams of forever dominating BD.

Over the long run(2025 onwards) yes BD should seriously look at procuring the Turkish TF-X fighter. The fact that the engine will be UK is also a big boost as the UK is a friendly country to BD and will not try to impede sales to BD.

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## Michael Corleone

Jinn Baba said:


> so it would be a good addition to BAF if you can get them in good numbers.


which i'm sure would be the norm


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## Avicenna

In terms of the BAF, this is potentially a fork in the road in terms of procurement yes?

The next platform has to be congruent with political realities.

I would think the equation has changes in light of the actions of the the various players in this crisis.

Its a very difficult and complex situation I think. I don't know what to do. But it definitely provides fodder to thinking and debate appropriate for a forum such as this.

I would think the starting point would be what kind if capability is the BAF seeking? What are the objectives? What is its role? 

I think the shift that needs to be realized is that Myanmar is threat number 1. The ruling military is dangerous and will be for as long as they are in power there.

The problem is we need China infinitely more than they need us. That being said, I would seek to send them a message by engaging the West more. Especially the UK.

Maybe Gripen may be an option. It has plenty of UK components. Sweden is friendly towards humanitarian causes.

And Bangladesh truely is a non-malevolent player. Maybe a small quantity of Gripens would send a message to the Chinese that they can't take us for granted while setting up a Western oriented supply of weapons and tactics.

A major issue however would be access to a BVR missile such as AMRAAM. European options may be too expensive.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Agree.
> 
> Diversify suppliers. Maybe a East-West mix of hardware may be more appropriate given the current situation.
> 
> In terms of the BAF, maybe small numbers of a Western type such as the Gripen? Not sure if politically feasible. But money talks. And if the Bangladeshi economy really is doing as well as you people say it is, financially its affordable. Botswana is supposedly looking for 8 Gripens. I think Bangladesh can afford it. Especially, in the context that BD spends so little a percentage of its GDP on the military to start with.
> 
> More important than what to buy however, is to have a government in place willing to use it.


it's not so expensive to acquire gripens compared to other western offers.... i wonder if it's similar to or better than j-10 in which case we can look for that given the current situations....

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## Avicenna

Mohammed Khaled said:


> it's not so expensive to acquire gripens compared to other western offers.... i wonder if it's similar to or better than j-10 in which case we can look for that given the current situations....



Even if only for the political message, I would want the Gripen. Not to mention it is a world class fighter.

Maybe even used Gripen C from the Swedish inventory. Gripen E is coming online. Maybe just buy some new builds. 

An added benefit is that Thailand has Gripen in its inventory. Maybe train together. Myanmar and Thailand are not friendly from my impression. 

This action by Myanmar was inexcusable and directly hostile, if not in a military sense. A more active policy by Bangladesh is needed. There must be a response.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB * 
*ছবিতে রাশিয়ার নির্মিত Russian Kh-59 TV guided Cruise Missile.

এটি মুলত একটি সাবসনিক ক্রুজ মিসাইল যা মুলত ভুমিতে আক্রমনের জন্য ব্যবহৃত হয়।এটি Sub sonic Cruise missile এর পাশাপাশি can also be used as Air-launched cruise missile,Air-to-surface missile,Anti-ship missile,Land-attack missile হিসেবেও ব্যবহার করা হয়।এটির রেঞ্জ range 150-280 km ১৫০-২৮০ কিমি।গাইডেন্স সিস্টেম হিসেবে আছে guidence system- inertial guidance (then TV guidance ), millimeter wave active radar seeker.

লঞ্চিং প্লাটফরম হিসেবে ব্যবহার করা হয় launching platform Sukhoi Su-30MK যুদ্ধবিমান।

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী মুলত এসব মিসাইলই বেশি করে চাচ্ছে যা এক কথায় বিভিন্ন কাজে ব্যবহার করা যাবে।SU-30SME এর অন্যান্য অত্যাধুনিক অস্ত্রের সাথে এটিও আসবে .আমাদের প্রতিবেশী দেশ ভারত এই মিসাইল ব্যবহার করে।বলে শোনা যাচ্ছে।*










*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB * 
*New twist in খুব সম্ভবত MRCA for BAF নিয়ে নতুন টুইস্ট নিয়ে আসছে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী.....

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ২০১৭ সালের ফেব্রুয়ারিতে ডাকা ৮+৪ টি মাল্টিরোল যুদ্ধবিমানের জন্য দরপত্র চেয়েছিলো। যার একমাত্র অংশগ্রহণকারী দেশ ছিলো রাশিয়া।এই টেন্ডারে প্রধান প্রতিদ্বন্দ্বী ছিলো ৩ রাশিয়ান বিস্ট SU-35, SU-30SME, MiG-35.. তবে টেন্ডার অনুসারে MiG-35 প্রথমেই বাদ পরে।এই টেন্ডারে সবচেয়ে এগিয়ে ছিলো SU-30SME। কিন্তু বিমানবাহিনী সম্ভবত নতুন করে আবার দরপত্র ছাড়তে পারে।অনেকের মতে বিমানবাহিনীর টেন্ডার অনুসারে মুলত মেরিটাইম স্ট্রাইক এবং দুরপাল্লার ভুমিতে আক্রমণযোগ্য ক্ষেপনাস্ত্র সংবলিত বিমান চায়।যদি বিমানবাহিনী SU-30SME নেয় তাহলে বড় ধরনের কাস্টমাইজ করা লাগবে।এখন আবার টেন্ডার যদি দেয় তাহলে দেখা যাবে কি ধরনের WITH NEW MODIFICATIONS মডিফিকেশন চায় বিমানবাহিনী।*




*টেন্ডার এ বিমান এর কোনো চেঞ্জ আসবে না। চেঞ্জ আসলে আসবে in the revised tender the additions incorporated are weapons capacity, range, আর and engine power এর। আর কোনো চেঞ্জ আসবে না।*


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## Shahzaz ud din

UKBengali said:


> Not is is not.
> 
> JF-17 is known as the worst 4th generation fighter.
> 
> BD is most interested in the SU-30SME and the J-10B with AESA.


*SU-30SME and the J-10B with AESA
BD will get them in 2117 untill then*


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## Bengal Tiger 71

UKBengali said:


> I understand where you are coming from but BD needs an aircraft like the SU-30SME that can carry large ordnance deep over the Bay of Bengal to support the BD Navy. Only other comparable aircraft is the F-15 and that would cost more and the US is unlikely to sell it to BD anyway.
> 
> Any war with Myanmar is likely to be short and sharp as BD should have built up overwhelming military superiority over them by 2025, even before the "Forces Goal 2030" plan is completed.
> 
> J-10B would come in very handy as it can be used against both Myanmar and will be an excellent deterrent to Indian dreams of forever dominating BD.
> 
> Over the long run(2025 onwards) yes BD should seriously look at procuring the Turkish TF-X fighter. The fact that the engine will be UK is also a big boost as the UK is a friendly country to BD and will not try to impede sales to BD.


BAF should try for Typhoon


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## Shahzaz ud din

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BAF should try for Typhoon


BAF should try for Typhoon
I would want the Gripen
BD should seriously look at procuring the Turkish TF-X
BD needs an aircraft like the SU-30SME 

 _I am sure finally BD will end up with TEJAS_

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Even if only for the political message, I would want the Gripen. Not to mention it is a world class fighter.
> 
> Maybe even used Gripen C from the Swedish inventory. Gripen E is coming online. Maybe just buy some new builds.
> 
> An added benefit is that Thailand has Gripen in its inventory. Maybe train together. Myanmar and Thailand are not friendly from my impression.
> 
> This action by Myanmar was inexcusable and directly hostile, if not in a military sense. A more active policy by Bangladesh is needed. There must be a response.


F-16 is the most suited considering Turkey has huge overhauling and assembling plant. BD will not have to worry about maintenance. Not sure about price difference between Gripen and F-16


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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> it's not so expensive to acquire gripens compared to other western offers.... i wonder if it's similar to or better than j-10 in which case we can look for that given the current situations....



চীন দেশের অবস্থা হবে শ্যাম রাখি না কুল রাখি এমন.... 

GRIPEN seems to be a far more sorted out platform as far as we know - being older. All Swedish fighter platforms are supposed to be flexible enough to use lengths of road to take off or land, in case airstrips get bombed. Also - Swedish keep their platforms for a long time and all fighters (SAABs especially) boast simple yet advanced design, and very capable and obsolescence-proof platforms for each generation.

Saab 32 Lansen (First Flight early 1950's, immediately after WWII)





Saab 35 Draken(First Flight Mid 50's)






Saab 37 Viggen(First Flight Late 60's)





Saab 39 Gripen (First Flight Late 80's)












Thailand and South Africa are so far major export operators of the Gripen. Thailand integrated their Gripen's information systems with their Army and Navy systems (Gripen Integrated Air Defence System) which is a smart move. I don't know if this is possible with China's J-10 or if they are willing to do this for us.

All being said, I don't know enough about J-10 or its capabilities...like range, radar, BVR capability etc. Need to look into it.

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## Nike

some Korean duped the KFX/IFX as F22 little brother. Most of their armaments can be carried is either European and American design, like Taurus Kelp, Amraam, Meteor, Brimstone, HARM, jsow and among other. Indonesian variants will be optimized for Maritime Attack, suitable for long range engagements and had software coded to do so.






As part of commitments Indonesia must bought 50 to 80 samples of KFX/IFX to reach economics scale to build the Aircraft...

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## TopCat

madokafc said:


> View attachment 427146
> some Korean duped the KFX/IFX as F22 little brother. Most of their armaments can be carried is either European and American design, like Taurus Kelp, Amraam, Meteor, Brimstone, HARM, jsow and among other. Indonesian variants will be optimized for Maritime Attack, suitable for long range engagements and had software coded to do so.
> 
> View attachment 427147


Thats an excellent project but how far did it go?


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## Nike

TopCat said:


> Thats an excellent project but how far did it go?



Tunnel wind testing, picking up supplier for parts like avionic, lamp systems, tyres systems, engine system is bid phase, research on AESA radar, constructing assembly factory in Indonesia and South Korea. After all they are in full swing progress. Indonesian side is in charge to develop some parts like Wing, Tail fin, Some fuselages and so on





Indonesian Fighter Assembly Factory is in progress. Tools will be sourced from Indonesian states gov. Owned company

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## UKBengali

Gripen is Swedish airframe, Italian radar, US engine and lots of other parts from UK.
Sweden has a policy of no resupply to countries engaged in war.

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## TopCat

madokafc said:


> View attachment 427151
> View attachment 427150
> 
> 
> Tunnel wind testing, picking up supplier for parts like avionic, lamp systems, tyres systems, engine system is bid phase, research on AESA radar, constructing assembly factory in Indonesia and South Korea. After all they are in full swing progress. Indonesian side is in charge to develop some parts like Wing, Tail fin, Some fuselages and so on
> 
> View attachment 427152
> 
> Indonesian Fighter Assembly Factory is in progress. Tools will be sourced from Indonesian states gov. Owned company


If that is the case then I will certainly want BD to look into this project rather than Chinese J-10.
What engine will be used in it? GE or Rolls Royce?



UKBengali said:


> Gripen is Swedish airframe, Italian radar, US engine and lots of other parts from UK.
> Sweden has a policy of no resupply to countries engaged in war.


It is a war machine and they dont want to resupply at the time of war?? No wonder why britain use it as trainer


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## Banglar Bir

*আজকালকার তরুণ প্রজন্ম সাকিব আল হাসানের নাম জানে, কারণ সে ক্রিকেট খেলায় বিশ্বের শীর্ষ অলরাউন্ডার, কিন্তু এই বৃদ্ধের নাম কয়জন জানে ?

বাংলাদেশের তরুণ প্রজন্ম এই বৃদ্ধের খবর না রাখলেও সারা বিশ্ব কিন্তু এই বৃদ্ধের খবর ঠিকই রেখেছে। ওয়াল্র্ড র‌্যাংকিং এর বেস্ট ফাইটার পাইলটদের তালিকায় জ্বল জ্বল করছে এই ব্যক্তির নাম। কারণ তিনি সবচেয়ে বেশি ইসরাইলী বিমান ধ্বংস করতে পেরেছিলেন। অনেকে হয়ত ধরতে পেরেছেন, তার নাম সাইফুল আযম। বাড়ি- পাবনা।*
(১- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aces_of_aces, ২- http://bit.ly/2xpLaed)

*সাইফুল আযমের বীরত্বগাঁথার শুরু ১৯৬৫ সালের পাক-ভারত যুদ্ধ দিয়ে। ভারতীয় যুদ্ধবিমানের একটি ফ্লাইট অফিসার মহাদেবকে ভূপাতিত করেছিলেন সাইফুল আযম। এজন্য তাকে ১৯৬৬ সালে পাকিস্তানের তৃতীয় সর্বোচ্চ সামরিক সম্মাননা সিতারা-ই-জুরত এ ভূষিত করা হয়। এছাড়া পাকিস্তান বিমান বাহিনীর ২ নম্বর স্কোয়াড্রনের অধিনায়ক হিসেবেও তাকে পদোন্নতি দেয়া হয়।

এরপর ১৯৬৬ সালে আযমকে জর্দান বিমান বাহিনীর উপদেষ্টা হিসেবে ডেপুটেশনে পাঠায় পাকিস্তান। ১৯৬৭ সালে আরব-ইসরাইল যুদ্ধ শুরু হলে জর্দান বিমান বাহিনীর ১ নম্বর স্কোয়াড্রনের হয়ে হকার হান্টার নিয়ে আকাশে উড়েছিলেন তিনি।

যুদ্ধ শুরু হয়ে গেল আযমকে ইসরাইলের সুপার মিসটেরে যুদ্ধবিমান থেকে জর্দানের মূল ঘাঁটি মাফরাক রক্ষার দায়িত্ব দেয়া হয়। ৫ জুন আযম তার হকার হান্টার দিয়ে ইসরাইলের একটি বিমান তাৎক্ষণিক বিধ্বস্ত করেন এবং গুলিতে আরেকটিতে আগুন ধরে গেলে সেটি সীমান্তে ইসরাইলি ভূ-খণ্ডে গিয়ে পড়ে।

ইসরাইলি হামলা ঠেকাতে পরদিন তাকে দ্রুত ইরাকি বিমান বাহিনীতে পাঠানো হয়। কয়েক ঘণ্টার মধ্যেই তৎকালীন সবচেয়ে আধুনিক দুটি মিরাজ যুদ্ধবিমানের পাহারায় ইসরাইলি বিমান বাহিনীর চারটি ভাতোর বোম্বার পশ্চিম ইরাকের বিমান ঘাঁটিতে হামলা চালায়।

এবারও ইরাকি হান্টার নিয়ে প্রতিরোধে নামেন এই অকুতোভয় বৈমানিক। ইসরাইলি একটি মিরাজের পাইলট ক্যাপ্টেন গিদিয়োন দ্রোর সাইফুল আযমের উইংম্যানসহ দুটি ইরাকি যুদ্ধবিমান ভূ-পাতিত করে। কিন্তু আযমের পাল্টা হামলায় দ্রোর ধরাশায়ী হয়।

এছাড়া ক্যাপ্টেন গোলানের ভাতোর বোম্বারও ভূ-পাতিত করেন সাইফুল আযম। দুজনকে বন্দি করে ইরাকি সেনারা এবং তাদের বিনিময়ে পরবর্তীতে ইসরাইলের হাতে আটক কয়েক হাজার ইরাকি ও জর্দানি সেনাকে মুক্ত করা হয়। আযম ৭২ ঘণ্টায় চারটি ইসরাইলি যুদ্ধবিমান ভূপাতিত করেন।

এই বীরত্ব ও অসীম সাহসিকতারর জন্য সাইফুল আযম জর্দানের অর্ডার অব ইন্ডিপেন্ডেন্স এবং ইরাকের নাত আল-সুজাত সম্মাননায় ভূষিত হন। এছাড়া ২০০০ সালে যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের বিমান বাহিনীর দেয়া এক সম্মাননায় তাকে বিশ্বের ‘২২ জীবিত ঈগলের (ওয়ান অব দি টুয়েন্টে টু লিভিং ঈগলস)’ একজনে ভূষিত করা হয়।* (১- http://bit.ly/2xxkyIK, ২-http://bit.ly/2xxkyIK)

*বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে নিভৃতচারী এই বীরের কীর্তিগাথাও অনেকটা অজানা এ দেশের মানুষের কাছে। বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ ফ্লাইট লেফট্যানেন্ট মতিউর রহমানের পাকিস্তানি বিমান ছিনতাইয়ের অন্যতম কারিগর ছিলেন তিনি।

মুক্তিযুদ্ধের সময় পাকিস্তানে থাকা এই বীর কয়েকজন বাঙালি সহকর্মীকে নিয়ে দেশটির বেশ কয়েকটি বোয়িং বিমান এবং যুদ্ধবিমান ছিনতাই ও ধ্বংসের পরিকল্পনা করেন। শেষ পর্যন্ত গোয়েন্দাদের হাতে ধরা পড়ে মুখোমুখি হন কোর্ট মার্শালের। প্রায় ২১ দিন নির্জন সেলে কেটেছে মৃত্যুর ভয়ে।

তবে পাক-ভারত এবং আরব-ইসরাইল যুদ্ধের বীরত্বের জন্য ঊর্ধ্বতন কর্মকর্তাদের হস্তক্ষেপে মৃত্যুদণ্ড না দিয়ে তাকে আটকে রাখা হয়। যুদ্ধ শেষ হওয়ার পরও নজরদারিতে থাকা আযমকে বিমান বাহিনী কার্যক্রমে অংশ নিতে দেয়া হয়নি।

স্বাধীনতার পর দেশে ফিরে ঢাকায় বিমান বাহিনীর ঘাঁটিতে যোগ দেন এই বৈমানিক। ১৯৭৭ সালে তাকে ঢাকা বিমান ঘাঁটির অধিনায়ক করা হয় এবং গ্রুপ ক্যাপ্টেন হিসেবে পদোন্নতি দেয়া হয়। সর্বশেষ ১৯৭৯ সালে অবসরে গেলেও বেসামরিক পরিবহন বিমান কর্তৃপক্ষের চেয়ারম্যান পদে দুদফা দায়িত্ব পালন করেন তিনি। (http://bit.ly/2fCaCDZ)

গত কয়েকদিন আগে খবর এসেছে, জীবন-মৃত্যুর সন্ধিক্ষণে আছে এই বীর। বার্ধক্যজনিত বিভিন্ন রোগে আক্রান্ত হয়ে ঢাকার এ্যাপোলো হাসপাতালের ইনসেনটিভ কেয়ার ইউনিট (আইসিইউ) তে ভর্তি আছেন। তার পরিবার দেশবাসির নিকট দোয়া কামনা করেছেন। (http://bit.ly/2xxuuSr)

ছবি : হাসপাতালে ভতি হওয়ার কিছুদিন পুর্বে অসুস্থ সাইফুল আযমের ছবি।

[উইকিপিডিয়াতে (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aces_of_aces) পৃথিবীর শীর্ষ ফাইটার পাইলটদের তালিকায় দুইজন বাংলাদেশীর নাম আছে, যদিও তাদের নাম আছে পাকিস্তানীদের তালিকায়। একজন সাইফুল আজম, অন্যজন এমএম আলম বা মুহম্মদ মাহমুদ আলম। আরমানিটোলা স্কুল ও ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ের সাবেক ছাত্র স্কোয়াড্রন লিডার এম এম আলম ৬৫ এর যুদ্ধে মাত্র ৩০ সেকেন্ডে ৫টি ভারতীয় বিমান ভূ-পাতিত করেছিলেন। দেশ স্বাধীনের পর এমএম আলম পাকিস্তানের চলে গিয়েছিলেন। এমএম আলম ২০১৩ সালের ১৮ই মার্চ ৭৭ বয়সে করাচিতে মারা যান (http://bit.ly/2hi869I এই দুই ব্যক্তিকে নিয়ে পোস্ট দেওয়ার উদ্দেশ্য আজকালকার প্রজন্ম কেবল যুদ্ধাস্ত্র’র উপর বেজ করে গ্লোবাল ফায়ার পাওয়ার নামক ওয়েবসাইট র‌্যাংকিং দেখে বাংলাদেশকে হেয় করে। বলে মিয়ানমার ৩১ তম, বাংলাদেশ ৫৭ তম। কিন্তু দুঃখজন ঐ যুদ্ধাস্ত্রগুলো যারা চালাবে তাদের র‌্যাংকিং করে না )।

এ সম্পর্কে আমার আরো লেখা- *http://bit.ly/2xl0cQQ

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## Bilal9

Banglar Bir said:


> *আজকালকার তরুণ প্রজন্ম সাকিব আল হাসানের নাম জানে, কারণ সে ক্রিকেট খেলায় বিশ্বের শীর্ষ অলরাউন্ডার, কিন্তু এই বৃদ্ধের নাম কয়জন জানে ?
> 
> বাংলাদেশের তরুণ প্রজন্ম এই বৃদ্ধের খবর না রাখলেও সারা বিশ্ব কিন্তু এই বৃদ্ধের খবর ঠিকই রেখেছে। ওয়াল্র্ড র‌্যাংকিং এর বেস্ট ফাইটার পাইলটদের তালিকায় জ্বল জ্বল করছে এই ব্যক্তির নাম। কারণ তিনি সবচেয়ে বেশি ইসরাইলী বিমান ধ্বংস করতে পেরেছিলেন। অনেকে হয়ত ধরতে পেরেছেন, তার নাম সাইফুল আযম। বাড়ি- পাবনা।*
> (১- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aces_of_aces, ২- http://bit.ly/2xpLaed)
> 
> *সাইফুল আযমের বীরত্বগাঁথার শুরু ১৯৬৫ সালের পাক-ভারত যুদ্ধ দিয়ে। ভারতীয় যুদ্ধবিমানের একটি ফ্লাইট অফিসার মহাদেবকে ভূপাতিত করেছিলেন সাইফুল আযম। এজন্য তাকে ১৯৬৬ সালে পাকিস্তানের তৃতীয় সর্বোচ্চ সামরিক সম্মাননা সিতারা-ই-জুরত এ ভূষিত করা হয়। এছাড়া পাকিস্তান বিমান বাহিনীর ২ নম্বর স্কোয়াড্রনের অধিনায়ক হিসেবেও তাকে পদোন্নতি দেয়া হয়।
> 
> এরপর ১৯৬৬ সালে আযমকে জর্দান বিমান বাহিনীর উপদেষ্টা হিসেবে ডেপুটেশনে পাঠায় পাকিস্তান। ১৯৬৭ সালে আরব-ইসরাইল যুদ্ধ শুরু হলে জর্দান বিমান বাহিনীর ১ নম্বর স্কোয়াড্রনের হয়ে হকার হান্টার নিয়ে আকাশে উড়েছিলেন তিনি।
> 
> যুদ্ধ শুরু হয়ে গেল আযমকে ইসরাইলের সুপার মিসটেরে যুদ্ধবিমান থেকে জর্দানের মূল ঘাঁটি মাফরাক রক্ষার দায়িত্ব দেয়া হয়। ৫ জুন আযম তার হকার হান্টার দিয়ে ইসরাইলের একটি বিমান তাৎক্ষণিক বিধ্বস্ত করেন এবং গুলিতে আরেকটিতে আগুন ধরে গেলে সেটি সীমান্তে ইসরাইলি ভূ-খণ্ডে গিয়ে পড়ে।
> 
> ইসরাইলি হামলা ঠেকাতে পরদিন তাকে দ্রুত ইরাকি বিমান বাহিনীতে পাঠানো হয়। কয়েক ঘণ্টার মধ্যেই তৎকালীন সবচেয়ে আধুনিক দুটি মিরাজ যুদ্ধবিমানের পাহারায় ইসরাইলি বিমান বাহিনীর চারটি ভাতোর বোম্বার পশ্চিম ইরাকের বিমান ঘাঁটিতে হামলা চালায়।
> 
> এবারও ইরাকি হান্টার নিয়ে প্রতিরোধে নামেন এই অকুতোভয় বৈমানিক। ইসরাইলি একটি মিরাজের পাইলট ক্যাপ্টেন গিদিয়োন দ্রোর সাইফুল আযমের উইংম্যানসহ দুটি ইরাকি যুদ্ধবিমান ভূ-পাতিত করে। কিন্তু আযমের পাল্টা হামলায় দ্রোর ধরাশায়ী হয়।
> 
> এছাড়া ক্যাপ্টেন গোলানের ভাতোর বোম্বারও ভূ-পাতিত করেন সাইফুল আযম। দুজনকে বন্দি করে ইরাকি সেনারা এবং তাদের বিনিময়ে পরবর্তীতে ইসরাইলের হাতে আটক কয়েক হাজার ইরাকি ও জর্দানি সেনাকে মুক্ত করা হয়। আযম ৭২ ঘণ্টায় চারটি ইসরাইলি যুদ্ধবিমান ভূপাতিত করেন।
> 
> এই বীরত্ব ও অসীম সাহসিকতারর জন্য সাইফুল আযম জর্দানের অর্ডার অব ইন্ডিপেন্ডেন্স এবং ইরাকের নাত আল-সুজাত সম্মাননায় ভূষিত হন। এছাড়া ২০০০ সালে যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের বিমান বাহিনীর দেয়া এক সম্মাননায় তাকে বিশ্বের ‘২২ জীবিত ঈগলের (ওয়ান অব দি টুয়েন্টে টু লিভিং ঈগলস)’ একজনে ভূষিত করা হয়।* (১- http://bit.ly/2xxkyIK, ২-http://bit.ly/2xxkyIK)
> 
> *বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে নিভৃতচারী এই বীরের কীর্তিগাথাও অনেকটা অজানা এ দেশের মানুষের কাছে। বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ ফ্লাইট লেফট্যানেন্ট মতিউর রহমানের পাকিস্তানি বিমান ছিনতাইয়ের অন্যতম কারিগর ছিলেন তিনি।
> 
> মুক্তিযুদ্ধের সময় পাকিস্তানে থাকা এই বীর কয়েকজন বাঙালি সহকর্মীকে নিয়ে দেশটির বেশ কয়েকটি বোয়িং বিমান এবং যুদ্ধবিমান ছিনতাই ও ধ্বংসের পরিকল্পনা করেন। শেষ পর্যন্ত গোয়েন্দাদের হাতে ধরা পড়ে মুখোমুখি হন কোর্ট মার্শালের। প্রায় ২১ দিন নির্জন সেলে কেটেছে মৃত্যুর ভয়ে।
> 
> তবে পাক-ভারত এবং আরব-ইসরাইল যুদ্ধের বীরত্বের জন্য ঊর্ধ্বতন কর্মকর্তাদের হস্তক্ষেপে মৃত্যুদণ্ড না দিয়ে তাকে আটকে রাখা হয়। যুদ্ধ শেষ হওয়ার পরও নজরদারিতে থাকা আযমকে বিমান বাহিনী কার্যক্রমে অংশ নিতে দেয়া হয়নি।
> 
> স্বাধীনতার পর দেশে ফিরে ঢাকায় বিমান বাহিনীর ঘাঁটিতে যোগ দেন এই বৈমানিক। ১৯৭৭ সালে তাকে ঢাকা বিমান ঘাঁটির অধিনায়ক করা হয় এবং গ্রুপ ক্যাপ্টেন হিসেবে পদোন্নতি দেয়া হয়। সর্বশেষ ১৯৭৯ সালে অবসরে গেলেও বেসামরিক পরিবহন বিমান কর্তৃপক্ষের চেয়ারম্যান পদে দুদফা দায়িত্ব পালন করেন তিনি। (http://bit.ly/2fCaCDZ)
> 
> গত কয়েকদিন আগে খবর এসেছে, জীবন-মৃত্যুর সন্ধিক্ষণে আছে এই বীর। বার্ধক্যজনিত বিভিন্ন রোগে আক্রান্ত হয়ে ঢাকার এ্যাপোলো হাসপাতালের ইনসেনটিভ কেয়ার ইউনিট (আইসিইউ) তে ভর্তি আছেন। তার পরিবার দেশবাসির নিকট দোয়া কামনা করেছেন। (http://bit.ly/2xxuuSr)
> 
> ছবি : হাসপাতালে ভতি হওয়ার কিছুদিন পুর্বে অসুস্থ সাইফুল আযমের ছবি।
> 
> [উইকিপিডিয়াতে (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aces_of_aces) পৃথিবীর শীর্ষ ফাইটার পাইলটদের তালিকায় দুইজন বাংলাদেশীর নাম আছে, যদিও তাদের নাম আছে পাকিস্তানীদের তালিকায়। একজন সাইফুল আজম, অন্যজন এমএম আলম বা মুহম্মদ মাহমুদ আলম। আরমানিটোলা স্কুল ও ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ের সাবেক ছাত্র স্কোয়াড্রন লিডার এম এম আলম ৬৫ এর যুদ্ধে মাত্র ৩০ সেকেন্ডে ৫টি ভারতীয় বিমান ভূ-পাতিত করেছিলেন। দেশ স্বাধীনের পর এমএম আলম পাকিস্তানের চলে গিয়েছিলেন। এমএম আলম ২০১৩ সালের ১৮ই মার্চ ৭৭ বয়সে করাচিতে মারা যান (http://bit.ly/2hi869I এই দুই ব্যক্তিকে নিয়ে পোস্ট দেওয়ার উদ্দেশ্য আজকালকার প্রজন্ম কেবল যুদ্ধাস্ত্র’র উপর বেজ করে গ্লোবাল ফায়ার পাওয়ার নামক ওয়েবসাইট র‌্যাংকিং দেখে বাংলাদেশকে হেয় করে। বলে মিয়ানমার ৩১ তম, বাংলাদেশ ৫৭ তম। কিন্তু দুঃখজন ঐ যুদ্ধাস্ত্রগুলো যারা চালাবে তাদের র‌্যাংকিং করে না )।
> 
> এ সম্পর্কে আমার আরো লেখা- *http://bit.ly/2xl0cQQ



Sad to see what happened to the Ace....we don't honor them enough. :-(

Interesting that almost all Indians/Pakistanis on that list were more or less Bengalis.......coincidence, or what does it say about Bengali aviators?



madokafc said:


> Tools will be sourced from Indonesian states gov. Owned company



It will be PT Dirgantara I'm guessing. Unless you have another company now.


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## Nike

Bilal9 said:


> Sad to see what happened to the Ace....we don't honor them enough. :-(
> 
> Interesting that almost all Indians/Pakistanis on that list were more or less Bengalis.......coincidence, or what does it say about Bengali aviators?
> 
> 
> 
> It will be PT Dirgantara I'm guessing. Unless you have another company now.



For manufacturing tools like cutting tools, CnC mills and so on will be sourced from Barata, Pindad Heavy engineering and several privates companies

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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> *আজকালকার তরুণ প্রজন্ম সাকিব আল হাসানের নাম জানে, কারণ সে ক্রিকেট খেলায় বিশ্বের শীর্ষ অলরাউন্ডার, কিন্তু এই বৃদ্ধের নাম কয়জন জানে ?
> 
> বাংলাদেশের তরুণ প্রজন্ম এই বৃদ্ধের খবর না রাখলেও সারা বিশ্ব কিন্তু এই বৃদ্ধের খবর ঠিকই রেখেছে। ওয়াল্র্ড র‌্যাংকিং এর বেস্ট ফাইটার পাইলটদের তালিকায় জ্বল জ্বল করছে এই ব্যক্তির নাম। কারণ তিনি সবচেয়ে বেশি ইসরাইলী বিমান ধ্বংস করতে পেরেছিলেন। অনেকে হয়ত ধরতে পেরেছেন, তার নাম সাইফুল আযম। বাড়ি- পাবনা।*
> (১- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aces_of_aces, ২- http://bit.ly/2xpLaed)
> 
> *সাইফুল আযমের বীরত্বগাঁথার শুরু ১৯৬৫ সালের পাক-ভারত যুদ্ধ দিয়ে। ভারতীয় যুদ্ধবিমানের একটি ফ্লাইট অফিসার মহাদেবকে ভূপাতিত করেছিলেন সাইফুল আযম। এজন্য তাকে ১৯৬৬ সালে পাকিস্তানের তৃতীয় সর্বোচ্চ সামরিক সম্মাননা সিতারা-ই-জুরত এ ভূষিত করা হয়। এছাড়া পাকিস্তান বিমান বাহিনীর ২ নম্বর স্কোয়াড্রনের অধিনায়ক হিসেবেও তাকে পদোন্নতি দেয়া হয়।
> 
> এরপর ১৯৬৬ সালে আযমকে জর্দান বিমান বাহিনীর উপদেষ্টা হিসেবে ডেপুটেশনে পাঠায় পাকিস্তান। ১৯৬৭ সালে আরব-ইসরাইল যুদ্ধ শুরু হলে জর্দান বিমান বাহিনীর ১ নম্বর স্কোয়াড্রনের হয়ে হকার হান্টার নিয়ে আকাশে উড়েছিলেন তিনি।
> 
> যুদ্ধ শুরু হয়ে গেল আযমকে ইসরাইলের সুপার মিসটেরে যুদ্ধবিমান থেকে জর্দানের মূল ঘাঁটি মাফরাক রক্ষার দায়িত্ব দেয়া হয়। ৫ জুন আযম তার হকার হান্টার দিয়ে ইসরাইলের একটি বিমান তাৎক্ষণিক বিধ্বস্ত করেন এবং গুলিতে আরেকটিতে আগুন ধরে গেলে সেটি সীমান্তে ইসরাইলি ভূ-খণ্ডে গিয়ে পড়ে।
> 
> ইসরাইলি হামলা ঠেকাতে পরদিন তাকে দ্রুত ইরাকি বিমান বাহিনীতে পাঠানো হয়। কয়েক ঘণ্টার মধ্যেই তৎকালীন সবচেয়ে আধুনিক দুটি মিরাজ যুদ্ধবিমানের পাহারায় ইসরাইলি বিমান বাহিনীর চারটি ভাতোর বোম্বার পশ্চিম ইরাকের বিমান ঘাঁটিতে হামলা চালায়।
> 
> এবারও ইরাকি হান্টার নিয়ে প্রতিরোধে নামেন এই অকুতোভয় বৈমানিক। ইসরাইলি একটি মিরাজের পাইলট ক্যাপ্টেন গিদিয়োন দ্রোর সাইফুল আযমের উইংম্যানসহ দুটি ইরাকি যুদ্ধবিমান ভূ-পাতিত করে। কিন্তু আযমের পাল্টা হামলায় দ্রোর ধরাশায়ী হয়।
> 
> এছাড়া ক্যাপ্টেন গোলানের ভাতোর বোম্বারও ভূ-পাতিত করেন সাইফুল আযম। দুজনকে বন্দি করে ইরাকি সেনারা এবং তাদের বিনিময়ে পরবর্তীতে ইসরাইলের হাতে আটক কয়েক হাজার ইরাকি ও জর্দানি সেনাকে মুক্ত করা হয়। আযম ৭২ ঘণ্টায় চারটি ইসরাইলি যুদ্ধবিমান ভূপাতিত করেন।
> 
> এই বীরত্ব ও অসীম সাহসিকতারর জন্য সাইফুল আযম জর্দানের অর্ডার অব ইন্ডিপেন্ডেন্স এবং ইরাকের নাত আল-সুজাত সম্মাননায় ভূষিত হন। এছাড়া ২০০০ সালে যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের বিমান বাহিনীর দেয়া এক সম্মাননায় তাকে বিশ্বের ‘২২ জীবিত ঈগলের (ওয়ান অব দি টুয়েন্টে টু লিভিং ঈগলস)’ একজনে ভূষিত করা হয়।* (১- http://bit.ly/2xxkyIK, ২-http://bit.ly/2xxkyIK)
> 
> *বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে নিভৃতচারী এই বীরের কীর্তিগাথাও অনেকটা অজানা এ দেশের মানুষের কাছে। বীরশ্রেষ্ঠ ফ্লাইট লেফট্যানেন্ট মতিউর রহমানের পাকিস্তানি বিমান ছিনতাইয়ের অন্যতম কারিগর ছিলেন তিনি।
> 
> মুক্তিযুদ্ধের সময় পাকিস্তানে থাকা এই বীর কয়েকজন বাঙালি সহকর্মীকে নিয়ে দেশটির বেশ কয়েকটি বোয়িং বিমান এবং যুদ্ধবিমান ছিনতাই ও ধ্বংসের পরিকল্পনা করেন। শেষ পর্যন্ত গোয়েন্দাদের হাতে ধরা পড়ে মুখোমুখি হন কোর্ট মার্শালের। প্রায় ২১ দিন নির্জন সেলে কেটেছে মৃত্যুর ভয়ে।
> 
> তবে পাক-ভারত এবং আরব-ইসরাইল যুদ্ধের বীরত্বের জন্য ঊর্ধ্বতন কর্মকর্তাদের হস্তক্ষেপে মৃত্যুদণ্ড না দিয়ে তাকে আটকে রাখা হয়। যুদ্ধ শেষ হওয়ার পরও নজরদারিতে থাকা আযমকে বিমান বাহিনী কার্যক্রমে অংশ নিতে দেয়া হয়নি।
> 
> স্বাধীনতার পর দেশে ফিরে ঢাকায় বিমান বাহিনীর ঘাঁটিতে যোগ দেন এই বৈমানিক। ১৯৭৭ সালে তাকে ঢাকা বিমান ঘাঁটির অধিনায়ক করা হয় এবং গ্রুপ ক্যাপ্টেন হিসেবে পদোন্নতি দেয়া হয়। সর্বশেষ ১৯৭৯ সালে অবসরে গেলেও বেসামরিক পরিবহন বিমান কর্তৃপক্ষের চেয়ারম্যান পদে দুদফা দায়িত্ব পালন করেন তিনি। (http://bit.ly/2fCaCDZ)
> 
> গত কয়েকদিন আগে খবর এসেছে, জীবন-মৃত্যুর সন্ধিক্ষণে আছে এই বীর। বার্ধক্যজনিত বিভিন্ন রোগে আক্রান্ত হয়ে ঢাকার এ্যাপোলো হাসপাতালের ইনসেনটিভ কেয়ার ইউনিট (আইসিইউ) তে ভর্তি আছেন। তার পরিবার দেশবাসির নিকট দোয়া কামনা করেছেন। (http://bit.ly/2xxuuSr)
> 
> ছবি : হাসপাতালে ভতি হওয়ার কিছুদিন পুর্বে অসুস্থ সাইফুল আযমের ছবি।
> 
> [উইকিপিডিয়াতে (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aces_of_aces) পৃথিবীর শীর্ষ ফাইটার পাইলটদের তালিকায় দুইজন বাংলাদেশীর নাম আছে, যদিও তাদের নাম আছে পাকিস্তানীদের তালিকায়। একজন সাইফুল আজম, অন্যজন এমএম আলম বা মুহম্মদ মাহমুদ আলম। আরমানিটোলা স্কুল ও ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ের সাবেক ছাত্র স্কোয়াড্রন লিডার এম এম আলম ৬৫ এর যুদ্ধে মাত্র ৩০ সেকেন্ডে ৫টি ভারতীয় বিমান ভূ-পাতিত করেছিলেন। দেশ স্বাধীনের পর এমএম আলম পাকিস্তানের চলে গিয়েছিলেন। এমএম আলম ২০১৩ সালের ১৮ই মার্চ ৭৭ বয়সে করাচিতে মারা যান (http://bit.ly/2hi869I এই দুই ব্যক্তিকে নিয়ে পোস্ট দেওয়ার উদ্দেশ্য আজকালকার প্রজন্ম কেবল যুদ্ধাস্ত্র’র উপর বেজ করে গ্লোবাল ফায়ার পাওয়ার নামক ওয়েবসাইট র‌্যাংকিং দেখে বাংলাদেশকে হেয় করে। বলে মিয়ানমার ৩১ তম, বাংলাদেশ ৫৭ তম। কিন্তু দুঃখজন ঐ যুদ্ধাস্ত্রগুলো যারা চালাবে তাদের র‌্যাংকিং করে না )।
> 
> এ সম্পর্কে আমার আরো লেখা- *http://bit.ly/2xl0cQQ


My god, he looks terrible here. Age I guess. I saw other photos of him in good shape, idk how old they were though. Well all military men who serve well with distinctions come to a bitter, miserable end.


----------



## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
BAF's latest addations & ongoing deals বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর যেসব উল্লেখযোগ্য চুক্তি হয়েছে এবং প্রকৃয়াধীন আছে অর্থাৎ খুব শীঘ্রই চুক্তি হবে তার কয়েকটি আজ আপনাদের জানানোর চেষ্টা করবো-*




♦*৭ টি 7 x K-8w এর ডিল হয়ে গেছে যা arriving by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ দেশে আসবে



♦আরো ৮ টি 8 x Yak-130 deal signed (নতুন for newly raised "105 squardon"১০৫ স্কোয়াড্রন" এর জন্য) এর চুক্তি হয়েছে।



♦৩-৪ টি 3 -4 Male UAV



♦৫ টি 5 x Mi-171sh + আরো ২ টি 2 x Mi-171sh helicopters (for BGB এর জন্য)



♦১ ব্যাটারি 1 x battery of LY-80E যা arriving by end of 2018 ২০১৮ এর শেষ দিকে আসবে



♦২ টি 2 x C-130J Super Hercules arriving in 2018 যা ২০১৮ তে সার্ভিসে আসবে



♦১ টি 1 x CASA CN-295 AEW&C deal to be signed this year যার ডিল এই বছর স্বাক্ষর হবে।



♦৮+৪ টি 8 +4 X SU-30SME ,deal to be concluded this year যার চুক্তি এই বছরে স্বাক্ষর হবে।



♦১২-১৬ টি 12-16 x MiG-35 যার ডিল deal by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ স্বাক্ষর হবে এবং এটি পুরাতন to replace the older F-7MB কে রিপ্লেস করবে



♦১ টি 1 x AW-119 to be delivered this November followed by another next year এই বছরের নভেম্বরে ডেলিভারি পাবে এবং আরেকটি আগামী বছর আসবে।



♦আরো ২-৩ টি 2-3 X AW-139 SAR helicopters from Italy হেলিকপ্টার কেনা হবে ইটালি থেকে।



♦সম্ভবত আরো ১ রেজিমেন্ট 1 X REGIMENT OF FM-90 SHORAD likely for BAF কেনা হবে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য।



♦অত্যাধুনিক এয়ার টু এয়ার এবং এয়ার টু ল্যান্ড, এন্টিশিপ মিসাইল,গাইডেড বোমা,ভুমিতে আক্রমণযোগ্য ক্রুজ মিসাইল,এন্টিরেডিয়েশন মিসাইল A2A,AShM,Land attack CRUISE missile,guided bombs, wii be along with the MRCA এর সাথে আসছে।
এগুলো to be added by 2020-2030 deal to be finalised ২০২০-২৩ এর মধ্যে যুক্ত হচ্ছে......*


----------



## Bengal Tiger 71

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> BAF's latest addations & ongoing deals বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর যেসব উল্লেখযোগ্য চুক্তি হয়েছে এবং প্রকৃয়াধীন আছে অর্থাৎ খুব শীঘ্রই চুক্তি হবে তার কয়েকটি আজ আপনাদের জানানোর চেষ্টা করবো-*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦*৭ টি 7 x K-8w এর ডিল হয়ে গেছে যা arriving by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ দেশে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦আরো ৮ টি 8 x Yak-130 deal signed (নতুন for newly raised "105 squardon"১০৫ স্কোয়াড্রন" এর জন্য) এর চুক্তি হয়েছে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৩-৪ টি 3 -4 Male UAV
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৫ টি 5 x Mi-171sh + আরো ২ টি 2 x Mi-171sh helicopters (for BGB এর জন্য)
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১ ব্যাটারি 1 x battery of LY-80E যা arriving by end of 2018 ২০১৮ এর শেষ দিকে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦২ টি 2 x C-130J Super Hercules arriving in 2018 যা ২০১৮ তে সার্ভিসে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১ টি 1 x CASA CN-295 AEW&C deal to be signed this year যার ডিল এই বছর স্বাক্ষর হবে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৮+৪ টি 8 +4 X SU-30SME ,deal to be concluded this year যার চুক্তি এই বছরে স্বাক্ষর হবে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১২-১৬ টি 12-16 x MiG-35 যার ডিল deal by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ স্বাক্ষর হবে এবং এটি পুরাতন to replace the older F-7MB কে রিপ্লেস করবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১ টি 1 x AW-119 to be delivered this November followed by another next year এই বছরের নভেম্বরে ডেলিভারি পাবে এবং আরেকটি আগামী বছর আসবে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦আরো ২-৩ টি 2-3 X AW-139 SAR helicopters from Italy হেলিকপ্টার কেনা হবে ইটালি থেকে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦সম্ভবত আরো ১ রেজিমেন্ট 1 X REGIMENT OF FM-90 SHORAD likely for BAF কেনা হবে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦অত্যাধুনিক এয়ার টু এয়ার এবং এয়ার টু ল্যান্ড, এন্টিশিপ মিসাইল,গাইডেড বোমা,ভুমিতে আক্রমণযোগ্য ক্রুজ মিসাইল,এন্টিরেডিয়েশন মিসাইল A2A,AShM,Land attack CRUISE missile,guided bombs, wii be along with the MRCA এর সাথে আসছে।
> এগুলো to be added by 2020-2030 deal to be finalised ২০২০-২৩ এর মধ্যে যুক্ত হচ্ছে......*


If Mig 35 is coming beside Su 30sme then what will be the future of J10B deal?


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## Banglar Bir

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> If Mig 35 is coming beside Su 30sme then what will be the future of J10B deal?


Still plenty of time left till 2020-2030, hope our strategic partners "China" kindly evaluate and reconsiders their position regarding Bangladesh.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

if J10 B deal not fixed then BD need to go other origin beside russia.


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## tarpitz

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> BAF's latest addations & ongoing deals বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর যেসব উল্লেখযোগ্য চুক্তি হয়েছে এবং প্রকৃয়াধীন আছে অর্থাৎ খুব শীঘ্রই চুক্তি হবে তার কয়েকটি আজ আপনাদের জানানোর চেষ্টা করবো-*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]*৭ টি 7 x K-8w এর ডিল হয়ে গেছে যা arriving by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ দেশে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]আরো ৮ টি 8 x Yak-130 deal signed (নতুন for newly raised "105 squardon"১০৫ স্কোয়াড্রন" এর জন্য) এর চুক্তি হয়েছে।
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]৩-৪ টি 3 -4 Male UAV
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]৫ টি 5 x Mi-171sh + আরো ২ টি 2 x Mi-171sh helicopters (for BGB এর জন্য)
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]১ ব্যাটারি 1 x battery of LY-80E যা arriving by end of 2018 ২০১৮ এর শেষ দিকে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]২ টি 2 x C-130J Super Hercules arriving in 2018 যা ২০১৮ তে সার্ভিসে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]১ টি 1 x CASA CN-295 AEW&C deal to be signed this year যার ডিল এই বছর স্বাক্ষর হবে।
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]৮+৪ টি 8 +4 X SU-30SME ,deal to be concluded this year যার চুক্তি এই বছরে স্বাক্ষর হবে।
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]১২-১৬ টি 12-16 x MiG-35 যার ডিল deal by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ স্বাক্ষর হবে এবং এটি পুরাতন to replace the older F-7MB কে রিপ্লেস করবে
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]১ টি 1 x AW-119 to be delivered this November followed by another next year এই বছরের নভেম্বরে ডেলিভারি পাবে এবং আরেকটি আগামী বছর আসবে।
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]আরো ২-৩ টি 2-3 X AW-139 SAR helicopters from Italy হেলিকপ্টার কেনা হবে ইটালি থেকে।
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]সম্ভবত আরো ১ রেজিমেন্ট 1 X REGIMENT OF FM-90 SHORAD likely for BAF কেনা হবে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য।
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji815]অত্যাধুনিক এয়ার টু এয়ার এবং এয়ার টু ল্যান্ড, এন্টিশিপ মিসাইল,গাইডেড বোমা,ভুমিতে আক্রমণযোগ্য ক্রুজ মিসাইল,এন্টিরেডিয়েশন মিসাইল A2A,AShM,Land attack CRUISE missile,guided bombs, wii be along with the MRCA এর সাথে আসছে।
> এগুলো to be added by 2020-2030 deal to be finalised ২০২০-২৩ এর মধ্যে যুক্ত হচ্ছে......*


Dream shopping list.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Bengal Tiger 71

tarpitz said:


> Dream shopping list.


তোরে কেউ নাক গলাইতে কইছে?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


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## UKBengali

Banglar Bir said:


> Still plenty of time left till 2020-2030, hope our strategic partners "China" kindly evaluate and reconsiders their position regarding Bangladesh.



No point in going for J-10 if BD is getting both Mig-35 and SU-30SME.
Next fighter after these two should be 5th gen.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Flynn Swagmire

tarpitz said:


> Dream shopping list.


Yep! Any problem?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> BAF's latest addations & ongoing deals বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর যেসব উল্লেখযোগ্য চুক্তি হয়েছে এবং প্রকৃয়াধীন আছে অর্থাৎ খুব শীঘ্রই চুক্তি হবে তার কয়েকটি আজ আপনাদের জানানোর চেষ্টা করবো-*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ♦*৭ টি 7 x K-8w এর ডিল হয়ে গেছে যা arriving by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ দেশে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦আরো ৮ টি 8 x Yak-130 deal signed (নতুন for newly raised "105 squardon"১০৫ স্কোয়াড্রন" এর জন্য) এর চুক্তি হয়েছে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৩-৪ টি 3 -4 Male UAV
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৫ টি 5 x Mi-171sh + আরো ২ টি 2 x Mi-171sh helicopters (for BGB এর জন্য)
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১ ব্যাটারি 1 x battery of LY-80E যা arriving by end of 2018 ২০১৮ এর শেষ দিকে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦২ টি 2 x C-130J Super Hercules arriving in 2018 যা ২০১৮ তে সার্ভিসে আসবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১ টি 1 x CASA CN-295 AEW&C deal to be signed this year যার ডিল এই বছর স্বাক্ষর হবে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦৮+৪ টি 8 +4 X SU-30SME ,deal to be concluded this year যার চুক্তি এই বছরে স্বাক্ষর হবে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১২-১৬ টি 12-16 x MiG-35 যার ডিল deal by 2018-19 ২০১৮-১৯ এ স্বাক্ষর হবে এবং এটি পুরাতন to replace the older F-7MB কে রিপ্লেস করবে
> 
> 
> 
> ♦১ টি 1 x AW-119 to be delivered this November followed by another next year এই বছরের নভেম্বরে ডেলিভারি পাবে এবং আরেকটি আগামী বছর আসবে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦আরো ২-৩ টি 2-3 X AW-139 SAR helicopters from Italy হেলিকপ্টার কেনা হবে ইটালি থেকে।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦সম্ভবত আরো ১ রেজিমেন্ট 1 X REGIMENT OF FM-90 SHORAD likely for BAF কেনা হবে বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য।
> 
> 
> 
> ♦অত্যাধুনিক এয়ার টু এয়ার এবং এয়ার টু ল্যান্ড, এন্টিশিপ মিসাইল,গাইডেড বোমা,ভুমিতে আক্রমণযোগ্য ক্রুজ মিসাইল,এন্টিরেডিয়েশন মিসাইল A2A,AShM,Land attack CRUISE missile,guided bombs, wii be along with the MRCA এর সাথে আসছে।
> এগুলো to be added by 2020-2030 deal to be finalised ২০২০-২৩ এর মধ্যে যুক্ত হচ্ছে......*


I suppose this is a big **** you to China for supporting Burma? Regarding j10b?



Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> তোরে কেউ নাক গলাইতে কইছে?


XD :,)



UKBengali said:


> No point in going for J-10 if BD is getting both Mig-35 and SU-30SME.
> Next fighter after these two should be 5th gen.


If we don't get j10, I hardly think china will sell us any j31. So our option will be pak fa. Or any other subsequent fighter that's coming up from turkey or Korea.


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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> My god, he looks terrible here. Age I guess. I saw other photos of him in good shape, idk how old they were though. Well all military men who serve well with distinctions come to a bitter, miserable end.



All of us are headed there brother. The point is to pass away with some dignity. If you asked me - posting pictures of people in their last existence in that condition (i.e. no control over excretory functions etc.) is inhumane.

No one needs to see that sad reality - we (the govt. and the armed services) should at least give him some dignity in his last years. He deserves this at a minimum for serving his country with distinction.

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## Bilal9

Some more tidbits, 

Group Capt. Saiful Azam in the Jordanian airbase where he had fought the Israeli AF in six-day-war decades ago. 







At Sarghoda in the old alma-mater during a reunion in 2006 - Azam Saab was the oldest Sargodhian from East Pakistan.





























*Have Jet — Will Travel: The Story of Saiful Azam, Fighter Pilot*
by Editor • 21 August, 2013 • 3 Comments




A painting by artist Rehan Siraj of Saiful Azam of the Pakistani Air Force shooting down an Israeli bomber over Iraq in 1967.

Saiful Azam might not be the highest scoring fighter ace of the jet age. That honour goes to Israel’s Giora Epstein (17 victories between 1967 and 1973). Yet the Bangladeshi-born aviator downed at least five enemy planes during a 20-year military career – one that saw him fly for no fewer than four different air forces. It’s a record that stands to this day.

Born in 1941 and raised in India, Azam left home at 18 to enlist in the Pakistani Air Force (PAF).

After learning the fundamentals of aviation, Azam was sent for advanced air combat training at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona. Following his stint in the U.S., the junior pilot was posted to his native Bangladesh (then known as East Pakistan) as a military flight instructor.




Saiful Azam being decorated for heroism.

When India and Pakistan went to war over the disputed Kashmir region in 1965, Azam was sent to Punjab where he flew Canadian-made PAF Sabre jets. Sometime during the 17-day conflict, which was fought between August and September, aircraft from the squadron were jumped by a flight of British-built Indian Folland Gnat interceptors. In the ensuing melee, the 24-year-old pilot managed to bring down one of the attacking aircraft. The victory was widely applauded in Pakistan considering that the Indian Air Force outnumbered the PAF more than 5 to 1. 

Azam was awarded a Pakistani medal (Sitara-i-Ju'rat - the _Star of Courage_, which is the equivalent of the Distinguished Service Cross and the Silver Star respectively) and given command of his own squadron.

In late 1966, Azam was dispatched to Amman as a technical advisor to the Royal Jordanian Air Force. After only a few months in the region, he suddenly found himself at war as Israeli jets mounted a string of pre-emptive surprise attacks on Syria, Egypt and Jordan on June 5, 1967. The raids, which were part of the opening moves of the Six Day War, thwarted top secret Arab plans for an upcoming invasion of the Jewish state. As fighting broke out all along the border with Israel, the Jordanians quickly appointed Azam and his Pakistani comrades to the RJAF. Within hours the foreign pilots were intercepting enemy jets in Jordanian Hawker Hunters. During one of these encounters, Azam managed to bring down an Israeli Dassault Super Mystère while damaging another as a flight of the French-built jets struck the Jordanian air base at Mafraq. The crippled Mystère crashed on its way back to base.

The following day, Azam and his colleagues were hastily transferred to the Iraqi air force where they were similarly “deputized” into the service. It was the third air force into which the Bangladeshi-born flier was inducted.

Within hours, Azam was in the air attacking a flight of four Israeli Vautour bombers and their Mirage escorts. During the raid, one of the Mirages destroyed two Iraqi jets, but Saiful brought the aircraft down along with one of the enemy bombers. After scoring four kills in just two days (a remarkable feat), Azam was awarded an Iraqi medal for bravery and was inducted into Jordan’s Order of Independence.

Being the highest shooter of Israeli aircraft in the history of dog-fighting to date, Saiful Azam was decorated with Jordan's Husame Isteqlal and Iraq's Medal of Bravery, the Noth-es-Shuja.

After serving two more years in the Middle East, Azam returned to Pakistan.

Saiful Azam did not fly during the Bangladesh Independence War of 1971, as he was a Bangladeshi and hence grounded in Pakistan. After independence however he joined the newly formed Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) or Bangladesh Biman Bahini as the Director of Operations. In 1977, he became Wing Commander and Base Commander of the BAF airbase in Dhaka. After retiring as Group Captain in 1988, Azam twice served as Chairman, Civil Aviation Authority.

Azam’s four victories during the Six Day War give him the distinction of downing more Israeli aircraft than any other fighter pilot in history. Yet, according to Pakistani sources his contributions and those of other volunteer fliers of the Arab Israeli wars have been more or less forgotten. Ironically, Azam was recognized by the United States Air Force in 2000 as being one of the world’s 20 greatest living flying aces.

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## Banglar Bir




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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> All of us are headed there brother. The point is to pass away with some dignity. If you asked me - posting pictures of people in their last existence in that condition (i.e. no control over excretory functions etc.) is inhumane.
> 
> No one needs to see that sad reality - we (the govt. and the armed services) should at least give him some dignity in his last years. He deserves this at a minimum for serving his country with distinction.


True. 
If he's suffering from a terminal disease. It's better to administer euthanasia than let the patient suffer. That's inhumane in eastern and Muslim countries.


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## Banglar Bir

Bilal9 said:


> Some more tidbits,
> Group Capt. Saiful Azam in the Jordanian airbase where he had fought the Israeli AF in six-day-war decades ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At Sarghoda in the old alma-mater during a reunion in 2006 - Azam Saab was the oldest Sargodhian from East Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Have Jet — Will Travel: The Story of Saiful Azam, Fighter Pilot*
> by Editor • 21 August, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> A painting by artist Rehan Siraj of Saiful Azam of the Pakistani Air Force shooting down an Israeli bomber over Iraq in 1967.
> 
> Saiful Azam might not be the highest scoring fighter ace of the jet age. That honour goes to Israel’s Giora Epstein (17 victories between 1967 and 1973). Yet the Bangladeshi-born aviator downed at least five enemy planes during a 20-year military career – one that saw him fly for no fewer than four different air forces. It’s a record that stands to this day.
> 
> Born in 1941 and raised in India, Azam left home at 18 to enlist in the Pakistani Air Force (PAF).
> After learning the fundamentals of aviation, Azam was sent for advanced air combat training at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona. Following his stint in the U.S., the junior pilot was posted to his native Bangladesh (then known as East Pakistan) as a military flight instructor.
> 
> 
> 
> Saiful Azam being decorated for heroism.
> When India and Pakistan went to war over the disputed Kashmir region in 1965, Azam was sent to Punjab where he flew Canadian-made PAF Sabre jets. Sometime during the 17-day conflict, which was fought between August and September, aircraft from the squadron were jumped by a flight of British-built Indian Folland Gnat interceptors. In the ensuing melee, the 24-year-old pilot managed to bring down one of the attacking aircraft. The victory was widely applauded in Pakistan considering that the Indian Air Force outnumbered the PAF more than 5 to 1.
> 
> Azam was awarded a Pakistani medal (Sitara-i-Ju'rat - the _Star of Courage_, which is the equivalent of the Distinguished Service Cross and the Silver Star respectively) and given command of his own squadron.
> 
> In late 1966, Azam was dispatched to Amman as a technical advisor to the Royal Jordanian Air Force. After only a few months in the region, he suddenly found himself at war as Israeli jets mounted a string of pre-emptive surprise attacks on Syria, Egypt and Jordan on June 5, 1967. The raids, which were part of the opening moves of the Six Day War, thwarted top secret Arab plans for an upcoming invasion of the Jewish state. As fighting broke out all along the border with Israel, the Jordanians quickly appointed Azam and his Pakistani comrades to the RJAF. Within hours the foreign pilots were intercepting enemy jets in Jordanian Hawker Hunters. During one of these encounters, Azam managed to bring down an Israeli Dassault Super Mystère while damaging another as a flight of the French-built jets struck the Jordanian air base at Mafraq. The crippled Mystère crashed on its way back to base.
> 
> The following day, Azam and his colleagues were hastily transferred to the Iraqi air force where they were similarly “deputized” into the service. It was the third air force into which the Bangladeshi-born flier was inducted.
> 
> Within hours, Azam was in the air attacking a flight of four Israeli Vautour bombers and their Mirage escorts. During the raid, one of the Mirages destroyed two Iraqi jets, but Saiful brought the aircraft down along with one of the enemy bombers. After scoring four kills in just two days (a remarkable feat), Azam was awarded an Iraqi medal for bravery and was inducted into Jordan’s Order of Independence.
> 
> Being the highest shooter of Israeli aircraft in the history of dog-fighting to date, Saiful Azam was decorated with Jordan's Husame Isteqlal and Iraq's Medal of Bravery, the Noth-es-Shuja.
> After serving two more years in the Middle East, Azam returned to Pakistan.
> 
> Saiful Azam did not fly during the Bangladesh Independence War of 1971, as he was a Bangladeshi and hence grounded in Pakistan. After independence however he joined the newly formed Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) or Bangladesh Biman Bahini as the Director of Operations. In 1977, he became Wing Commander and Base Commander of the BAF airbase in Dhaka. After retiring as Group Captain in 1988, Azam twice served as Chairman, Civil Aviation Authority.
> Azam’s four victories during the Six Day War give him the distinction of downing more Israeli aircraft than any other fighter pilot in history. Yet, according to Pakistani sources his contributions and those of other volunteer fliers of the Arab Israeli wars have been more or less forgotten. Ironically, Azam was recognized by the United States Air Force in 2000 as being one of the world’s 20 greatest living flying aces.


*Heroes never Die*,there legends are embedded in history,their legend and valor inspires the younger generations ahead.

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## Banglar Bir

*Bangladesh receives refurbished An-32 transport aircraft*
Read news from Defence Blog at Flipboard.com | Subscribe to the newsletter from Defence Blog
By Dylan Malyasov -
Sep 26, 2017




The Bangladesh Air Force has received an Antonov An-32 transport aircraft following an extensive refurbishment effort.

The handover of the transport aircraft (S/N 1702) took place on 25 September at the Ukraine’s SE PLANT 410 CA aircraft-repair enterprise located at Kyiv. SE PLANT 410 CA Director General Viktor Gankevich handed over the overhauled aircraft certificates and keys to the pilots-in-command, and thanked for the long-lasting fruitful cooperation.

Employees of the company are handing over a practically new aircraft, which is ready to carry out any missions, Viktor Gankevych said during his speech.

According to the Ukroboronprom State Concern Deputy Director General for Aircraft Industry and Operations Volodymyr Korobov, the modernized aircraft received modern equipment, new automatic ground collision avoidance system, satellite navigation system and other important equipment for safe flights.

It is planned that all three An-32 transport aircraft of the Bangladesh Air Force will be modernized in Ukraine.

The project of An-32 modernization – as well as the program on military aircraft and helicopters repair – were discussed by leadership of the UkrOboronProm and the Head of the delegation of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Bangladesh Mr. Naim Nasan at specialized aerospace exhibition AeroIndia-2017.

As reported, SE Plant 410 CA was awarded the certificate “Best Exporter of 2016”. The enterprise closely cooperates with its international partners from Bangladesh, Kazakhstan, India, Hungary and Sudan.

The Ukraine-made An-32 light military transport multi-purpose aircraft can be operated in various climate conditions, including hot climate (up to + 50°C) and from the mountain airfields (up to 4500 m elevation).

The main aircraft purpose is to transport cargoes over short and medium range air routes. It can be used for carrying military personnel, aerial delivery of paratroopers and palletized and non-palletized cargoes. Its ambulance version can be used in missions of Emergency Ministry.

The aircraft has a high maneuverability for flights to mountain based airfields with difficult approaches.




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyaso




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov




Photo by Dylan Malyasov
*RELATED NEWS :*
Bangladesh Army looks to buy 680 Ukraine-made multipurpose armored vehicles
Bangladesh orders five Russian Mi-171Sh military transport helicopters
Bangladesh confirms acquisition of Russian armored personnel carriers for use in UN missions
First Yak-130 for Bangladesh makes maiden flight
Bangladesh Air Force received Yak-130 Aircraft from Russia
In Irkutsk continues test flights of Yak-130 Air Force Bangladesh
Russia-made Yak-130 aircraft crashed in Bangladesh
http://defence-blog.com/news/bangladesh-receives-refurbished-an-32-transport-aircraft.html

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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> *Heroes never Die*,there legends are embedded in history,their legend and valor inspires the younger generations ahead.


LEGENDS LIVE FOREVER BUT HEROES NEVER DIE. :,)

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB *
বাংলাদেশ সসস্ত্রবাহিনীর সার্ভিসে থাকা এবং আপকামিং Agustawestland ফ্যামিলির সদস্যরা.....



♦AW-101 SOF (Navy) [upcoming]



♦AW-109 SAR (Navy) 



♦AW-119 (Air Force) [upcoming]



♦AW-139 SAR (Air Force) 



♦AW-159 ASW (Navy)

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Upcoming Russian PM visit maybe SU30 & other equipment deal will be sign.

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## UKBengali

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Upcoming Russian PM visit maybe SU30 & other equipment deal will be sign.



I am confident that BD will order 8+4 SU-30 SMEs
when the Russian PM visits.
With this single squadron of Sukhois, BAF will dominate the Mig-29s and JF-17s of MAF.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

UKBengali said:


> I am confident that BD will order 8+4 SU-30 SMEs
> when the Russian PM visits.
> With this single squadron of Sukhois, BAF will dominate the Mig-29s and JF-17s of MAF.


BAF should also go for numbers urgently. god knows after procuring 8+4 su30, next deal of this birds how many days will be take.

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## UKBengali

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BAF should also go for numbers urgently. god knows after procuring 8+4 su30, next deal of this birds how many days will be take.



12 SU-30 SMEs will be able to shoot down the 50 or do Mig-29 and JF-17 that Myanmar will soon have with ease. That is enough with the planned upgrade of the Mig-29s to achieve dominance over MAF.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> 12 SU-30 SMEs will be able to shoot down the 50 or do Mig-29 and JF-17 that Myanmar will soon have with ease. That is enough with the planned upgrade of the Mig-29s to achieve dominance over MAF.



How are you so sure? 

Never underestimate your enemy OR overestimate yourself.

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## Homo Sapiens



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## Bengal Tiger 71

UKBengali said:


> 12 SU-30 SMEs will be able to shoot down the 50 or do Mig-29 and JF-17 that Myanmar will soon have with ease. That is enough with the planned upgrade of the Mig-29s to achieve dominance over MAF.


MM have 31 Mig 29 beside they are procuring 16 JF 17 other hand Russian news few weeks ago said that MM also interested for Mig 35. now u can calculate how many no. BAF need.

12 SU 30 is only enough becoz it has good tactical operation range but not enough to face this no. with enemy.


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## UKBengali

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> MM have 31 Mig 29 beside they are procuring 16 JF 17 other hand Russian news few weeks ago said that MM also interested for Mig 35. now u can calculate how many no. BAF need.
> 
> 12 SU 30 is only enough becoz it has good tactical operation range but not enough to face this no. with enemy.



Whenever a SU-30 has faced Mig-29, the Sukhoi has always won. Mig-29 is no match for a SU-30.
SU-30SME can be loaded with 10 R-77s, and couple this with it's radar and other avionics it will shoot down MAF Mig-29 and JF-17 with ease.
BD does need more SU-30s but not urgently.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

At least BAF should order 1 sqd. at a time what always 8, 8+4 what kind of think tank BD have.
BD need to repair the Thakurgaon airport for BAF base it will be a strategic base near chicken neck.

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## EastBengalPro

Mig has opened a office in Myanmar. Russia turns towards MM in rohingya issue because MM are now reluctant to use land forces to face off with rebels as land forces embraces heavy casualties and now they are more willing to use air force to tackle those rebels. More business interest for Russia and MM are likely to be first users of mig 35 in this region.


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## Banglar Bir

*Bangladesh Air Force Commando "41 SQN"*

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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> View attachment 428752


most probably in america....


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## Banglar Bir



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## Bilal9

Banglar Bir said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force Commando "41 SQN"*
> View attachment 428752





Mohammed Khaled said:


> most probably in america....



He's wearing standard Bangladesh Air Force camo. Helmet I'm not so sure of....looks like US Army issue but could be somewhere other than in the US.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> He's wearing standard Bangladesh Air Force camo. Helmet I'm not so sure of....looks like US Army issue but could be somewhere other than in the US.


i am talking about body armor and the helmet..... US issue

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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> i am talking about body armor and the helmet..... US issue



And - right you are.


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## Bilal9

LET 410 UVP SE-20, engines are GE units. Probably one of the most appropriate-technology liaison aircraft in South Asia for short hops.

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> LET 410 UVP SE-20, engines are GE units. Probably one of the most appropriate-technology liaison aircraft in South Asia for short hops.


Looks nice!!


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## Michael Corleone

the 2x c-130j from RAF comes with air refueling capability, i have come to know from a military friend of mine that bangladeshi pilots are training with the RSAF on air refueling.... this marks a major boost in capability to BAF which have been stagnating for quiet some time now.

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## Avicenna

Mohammed Khaled said:


> the 2x c-130j from RAF comes with air refueling capability, i have come to know from a military friend of mine that bangladeshi pilots are training with the RSAF on air refueling.... this marks a major boost in capability to BAF which have been stagnating for quiet some time now.



Two questions.

How reliable is your friend?

Secondly, what equipment would the BAF pilots train on that have A2A refueling capability?

I cant see BAF pilots driving F-15s. LOL.

Same goes for Typhoons, Tornados, or any other Saudi equipment. 

So I take this with a grain of salt.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Two questions.
> 
> How reliable is your friend?
> 
> Secondly, what equipment would the BAF pilots train on that have A2A refueling capability?
> 
> I cant see BAF pilots driving F-15s. LOL.
> 
> Same goes for Typhoons, Tornados, or any other Saudi equipment.
> 
> So I take this with a grain of salt.


Well he is in defense sector.
He previously informed me about the tank upgrade details, mbt-2000 purschase and frigate program details 

He didn't give me further details but told me that c-130j air refueling training is being done in Saudi Arabia with c130 and tornados ... but then it might also be a lot of simulator work than actual flying.

And the c130j of RAF come and with that capability standard. So I can believe this dude. If you know a guy called Syed then he is it.

Also he just shared some info regarding the Russia bd fighter deal that I am not willing to share atm... but it's seems promising to say the least.


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## BDforever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Well he is in defense sector.
> He previously informed me about the tank upgrade details, mbt-2000 purschase and frigate program details
> 
> He didn't give me further details but told me that c-130j air refueling training is being done in Saudi Arabia with c130 and tornados ... but then it might also be a lot of simulator work than actual flying.
> 
> And the c130j of RAF come and with that capability standard. So I can believe this dude. If you know a guy called Syed then he is it.
> 
> Also he just shared some info regarding the Russia bd fighter deal that I am not willing to share atm... but it's seems promising to say the least.


I know who you are talking about, I caught your source at first time you talked about him


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## Avicenna

I don't know any guys.

I hope the news is true but I am skeptical.

There currently are not any types in BAF inventory that have A2A refueling capability.

The 2 C-130J will have it apparently to receive fuel. 

But BAF will also need a refueller type to give fuel. Those are expensive. 

Maybe this is in preparation for the SU-30, Mig-35 or J-10s. And BAF is looking at some refuellers as well.

Hopefully, your friend is correct.

This would mark a major upgrade in capabilities. 

I remain skeptical.


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## Michael Corleone

BDforever said:


> I know who you are talking about, I caught your source at first time you talked about him


Well is he credible according to you?



Avicenna said:


> SU-30


I figure this might be it. I'm not sold out on it like 100% but given the future upgrade plan it is viable to believe in this.


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## BDforever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Well is he credible according to you?


he is reliable but sometimes he becomes too sentimental that he can't control himself lol


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী চীন থেকে অজানা সংখ্যক BAF will obtain Chinise PL-5E II A2A missiles,range 20 km, এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল কিনতে যাচ্ছে। এটি PL-5E এর সর্বাধুনিক ভার্সন যার রেঞ্জ ২০ কিমি।এগুলো বিমানবাহিনীর to be used in the F-7 series fighters সিরিজের বিমানে ব্যবহার করা হবে*
লিংক-http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1621.pdf

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## Michael Corleone

BDforever said:


> he is reliable but sometimes he becomes too sentimental that he can't control himself lol


that i noticed... xD i disagree with him at those times.... he seems to like my opinion in the group threads... are you in the group?



Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী চীন থেকে অজানা সংখ্যক BAF will obtain Chinise PL-5E II A2A missiles,range 20 km, এয়ার টু এয়ার মিসাইল কিনতে যাচ্ছে। এটি PL-5E এর সর্বাধুনিক ভার্সন যার রেঞ্জ ২০ কিমি।এগুলো বিমানবাহিনীর to be used in the F-7 series fighters সিরিজের বিমানে ব্যবহার করা হবে*
> লিংক-http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1621.pdf


so they're not BVR capable after all

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## Banglar Bir

Mohammed Khaled said:


> that i noticed... xD i disagree with him at those times.... he seems to like my opinion in the group threads... are you in the group?
> so they're not BVR capable after all


20 km.BVR??????????????


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## Michael Corleone

Banglar Bir said:


> 20 km.BVR??????????????


no brother.... missiles qualofy as BVR when the range is over 37km... this qualifies as WVR


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## Banglar Bir

BDforever said:


> he is reliable but sometimes he becomes too sentimental that he can't control himself lol


*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য কেনা ২ টি 2 X C-130J Super Hercules of BAF will have Air to Air refuelling system এ এরিয়েল রিফুয়েলিং সিস্টেম থাকবে।
প্রতিটি উইং এর নিচে under each wing there are Fuel tanks with 400/500 litres capicity ৪০০/৫০০ লিটার বহন ক্ষমতা সম্পন্ন মোট ২/৪ টি এক্সটারনাল ফুয়েল ট্যাংক থাকবে যার মাধ্যমে এরিয়েল রিফুয়েলিং করা সম্ভব হবে।
যার ফলে যুদ্ধকালীন সময়ে বিমানবাহিনীর আপকামিং এবং ইতিমধ্যে inventory তে থাকা বিমানে রিফুয়েলিং করা সম্ভব হবে।

তাহলে খুব সহজেই বুঝা যাচ্ছে আপকামিং upcoming MRCA এবং and Single Engine MRCA will have probes installed for A2A refuelling তে এরিয়াল রিফুয়েলিং প্রোব লাগানো থাকবে*

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## BDforever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> that i noticed... xD i disagree with him at those times.... he seems to like my opinion in the group threads... are you in the group?


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## Banglar Bir

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BAF should also go for numbers urgently. god knows after procuring 8+4 su30, next deal of this birds how many days will be take.


*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
আপনারা অনেকেই BAF সম্পর্কে অভিযোগ করেছেন যে বাফ MRCA নিতে বেশি দেরী করছে। 
আবার অনেকেই বলছেন যে BAF আর MRCA নিবে না। এইটি হল মিথ্যা কথা, কারণ সংসদ এ বাফ যে ৮ টি MRCA নিবে তা বলা হয়েছিল। আবার অনেকেই এটিকে রাজনৈতিক ভাবে বিবেচনা করছে, যা মোটেও নয়। 
এখন বলি আসল ঘটনা কি।
সরকার আগেই বলেছিল যে বাফ নতুন MRCA নিবে আর এর জন্য টেন্ডার ও ডাকা হয়েছিল। এরপর টেন্ডার এর সকল শর্ত Su-30 এর সাথে মিলে যাওয়াই বাফ Su-30 নিবে এটা শিউর। সরকার ও বাফ সব কিছু ঠিক করার পরে প্রব্লেম করে রাশিয়া। 
তারা আমাদের যে এয়ারক্রাফট অফার করে তা Su-30 নামে মাত্র। 
আসলে তা Su-27 এর একটা ডিজিটাল ভার্সন। যা আমাদের MRCA কিনার প্রধান বাধা । 
আর BAF এই এয়ারক্রাফট নেয়ার কোনো মানে ছিল না। 
তাই আমরা রাশিয়া কে আরও ভাল এয়ারক্রাফট অফার করতে বলি। আর এই জন্যই এত দেরি হচ্ছে। 
আসলে তারা Su-30 এর দামে Su-27 এর একটি যাচ্ছেতাই ভার্সন দিতে চাচ্ছিল।

আর এই জন্যই MRCA এর ব্যাপার এ দেরি হচ্ছে। আর আমরা সাধারণ জনগণ দেখি এয়ারক্রাফট এর বাইরে জিনিষ যেমন শেপ, পেলোড, আরমানেন্ট এই টাইপ এর গুন, আর BAF দেখে টেস্ট ডাটা। যা প্রকাশ করা হয় না। আর রাশিয়া চাচ্ছে আমরা যেন মিগ-৩৫ আর সুখোই-৩০। এক সাথে অর্ডার করি।আর বাফ চায় আগে যেন MRCA কিনা হয়*




*Many of you have complained that BAF is delaying the process of purchasing the MRCA's. Again many have stated that BAF will not purchase the MRCA.However, this is not the actual truth.Many others are considering it,as a political issue, which is not the case
Now, let me inform you all about the real factual position.
The government had earlier stated that the BAF would purchase new MRCA and a tender was invited accordingly. 
According to the tender, all the conditions should match those of the Su-30 and the BAF would accordingly obtain the Su-30. 
After finalising, by the government for the BAF, The Russians offer, was for the aircrafts were "so called" Su-30 . 
These were actually a digitalised version of Su-27. 
Which was the main obstacle of the MRCA. As, there was no point in purchasing such aircraft for the BAF. 
As such, we asked Russia to offer us with better aircrafts.Thus,the delay.
In fact, the Russians were intending to sell us another version of Su-27. And that's why MRCA purchase are being delayed. 
BAF only takes into cognizance,the aircraft's, payloads, armanants, and test data,etc. Which are never revealed. 
Moreover, the Russians wants us to order & purchase the MiG-35 and Sukhoi-30,simountensiouly.
BAF only wants the MRCA beforehand.*

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
*তুরস্ক বাংলাদেশকে Turkey offers T-129 Attack Helicopter to Bangladesh অফার করেছে। *
*বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনীর ২৪ টি 24 X Attack Helicopter for BA এর চাহিদার প্রেক্ষিতে এই অফার করা হয়েছে। *
*Attack Helicopter এর হট লিস্ট এ এখন Mil Mi-28NM আর T-129 আছে। দেখা যাক বাংলাদেশ কোনটি কিনে।*
*সূত্র: বিডিমিলিটারি+*

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## Avicenna

PLEASE BUY THE T-129. IF FOR NOTHING ELSE THAN POLITICAL REASONS.

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## 帅的一匹

Avicenna said:


> PLEASE BUY THE T-129. IF FOR NOTHING ELSE THAN POLITICAL REASONS.


To be honest, T129 is a good choice.

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## BDforever

Bangladesh Airforce Special Force Unit




@DESERT FIGHTER

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## Michael Corleone

BDforever said:


> Bangladesh Airforce Special Force Unit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER


What assault rifle is that guys? Imported yeah?


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## BDforever

Mohammed Khaled said:


> What assault rifle is that guys? Imported yeah?


American M4 carbine , trained by USA

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## bluesky

Vito Corleone said:


> that i noticed... xD i disagree with him at those times.... he seems to like my opinion in the group threads... are you in the group?
> *so they're not BVR capable after al*l


BVR capability is certainly not a sure success when one thinks of speed running of each plane. Contrary to what people think, BVR (Beyond Visible Range) has very low number of combat success. Here is an excerpt from an internet analysis.

"-----In practice, BVR promise fell short. During the entire Cold War, 407 kills were made with missiles in eight conflicts, with reliable data for ninth conflict, Iran-Iraq war, not being avaliable. *Only four saw use of radar-guided BVR missiles*: Rolling Thunder and Linebacker in Vietnam, Yom Kippur War, and conflict over Bekaa Valley". 

"In total, 144 kills were made with guns, 308 with heat-seeking missiles and 73 with radar-guided missiles. Out of 73 radar-guided missile kills, 69 were scored *within visual range (WVR)*, with remaining four being carefully staged outside combat". 

"Even though majority of BVR missile shots in Vietnam were made from visual range, killing was still 9.6%. In fact, F-4 consistently under performed until it was given guns and pilots were *taught how to dogfight.*
Further, in these 407 kills, most targets were unaware and fired at from the rear, and *there were almost no head-on BVR shots due to high closing speeds of aircraft involved*. This shows that good rearward visibility from cockpit is still important despite all technological advancements.-----"

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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> BVR capability is certainly not a sure success when one thinks of speed running of each plane. Contrary to what people think, BVR (Beyond Visible Range) has very low number of combat success. Here is an excerpt from an internet analysis.
> 
> "-----In practice, BVR promise fell short. During the entire Cold War, 407 kills were made with missiles in eight conflicts, with reliable data for ninth conflict, Iran-Iraq war, not being avaliable. *Only four saw use of radar-guided BVR missiles*: Rolling Thunder and Linebacker in Vietnam, Yom Kippur War, and conflict over Bekaa Valley".
> 
> "In total, 144 kills were made with guns, 308 with heat-seeking missiles and 73 with radar-guided missiles. Out of 73 radar-guided missile kills, 69 were scored *within visual range (WVR)*, with remaining four being carefully staged outside combat".
> 
> "Even though majority of BVR missile shots in Vietnam were made from visual range, killing was still 9.6%. In fact, F-4 consistently under performed until it was given guns and pilots were *taught how to dogfight.*
> Further, in these 407 kills, most targets were unaware and fired at from the rear, and *there were almost no head-on BVR shots due to high closing speeds of aircraft involved*. This shows that good rearward visibility from cockpit is still important despite all technological advancements.-----"



The examples that you cited stop at about 1982 with the Bekaa Valley conflict. Your talking about Sparrows and the like. 

BVR missiles and radars have improved. As have ECM and ECCM of course. But the point is, BVR is probably alot more reliable now than in that time period.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> The examples that you cited stop at about 1982 with the Bekaa Valley conflict. Your talking about Sparrows and the like.
> 
> BVR missiles and radars have improved. As have ECM and ECCM of course. But the point is, BVR is probably alot more reliable now than in that time period.


You keep on believing what you like to believe. But, tell us what better functions the BVR has except siting a plane 20 km away instead of 1 km. However, BVR has not been able to change the killing result of air warfare, but some ignorant try to criticize our BSF for that reason. I think, our BSF has not yet bought BVR capable planes for the reasons that I cited in my previous post. I do not say, it will not do so in the future because young people believe in fancy technology. 

However, you have to give me strong reasons by citing war examples to prove that a plane with BVR is a killing bird. Experience so far has proved nothing of that sort. BVR is only an expensive but non-functional toy fantasy. WVR fighting is still the main weapon for the pilots.


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> You keep on believing what you like to believe. But, tell us what better functions the BVR has except siting a plane 20 km away instead of 1 km. However, BVR has not been able to change the killing result of air warfare, but some ignorant try to criticize our BSF for that reason. I think, our BSF has not yet bought BVR capable planes for the reasons that I cited in my previous post. I do not say, it will not do so in the future because young people believe in fancy technology.
> 
> However, you have to give me strong reasons by citing war examples to prove that a plane with BVR is a killing bird. Experience so far has proved nothing of that sort. BVR is only an expensive but non-functional toy fantasy. WVR fighting is still the main weapon for the pilots.



Your clueless.


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## mb444

Banglar Bir said:


> *তবে কি বিমান বাহিনী সুখোই-৩০ কিনছে না | WHY Bangladesh Air Force Not Buying Su-30 SME?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defense Update Bangladesh
> Published on Oct 18, 2017
> Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) Not Buying Su-30 SME Under MRCA Program. Bangladesh Air Force’s Su-30 SME acquisition plagued due to high price asking by Moscow.
> Rather Russia wants Bangladesh to buy its new Mig-35D. But BAF is not willing to buy any more Migs. UAC asked $60m for each Su-30S ME whereas they offering it to Philippines Air Force in a $45m price tags.
> Bangladesh Air Force currently lacks in needed air power due to aging fleet of F-7BG and some of 8 Mig-29s. Country needs 2-3 more squadrons of 4++ generation fighter jets to maintain air power balance. Recent acquisition of BAF comprises only some trainer aircrafts and utility helicopters.
> No new advanced fighter jet has been bought in near past.
> Initially Bangladesh sought for Su-35S, that’s too, slowed regarding high-price.
> In the meantime China offered Bangladesh a $1b loan to buy chinese military aircrafts includes J-10B 4.5th generation fighter aircraft.
> BAF also needs J-10B like jet but it can’t compromise with the deep strike, long-range capabilities too. Hence, Su-30 ME or Su-35S is a must needed capability for Bangladesh Air Force right now.
> Russia using this card to increase price. Although, BAF surely wait for the reduction in price.




Hilarious..... anyhow what's the rush? BD national policy is non violence even if invaded .... so what does it really matter....


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> The examples that you cited stop at about 1982 with the Bekaa Valley conflict. Your talking about Sparrows and the like.
> 
> BVR missiles and radars have improved. As have ECM and ECCM of course. But the point is, BVR is probably alot more reliable now than in that time period.


BVR is still unproven imo. BVR results of the Iraqi war can as well be blamed on incompetence of Iraqi pilots. This is just terrible.


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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> Your clueless.


So, your Pundit brain could not find anything to support your criticism of BAF purchases of non-BVR planes. May I ask, why do you believe in that BVR fantasy idea?


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> So, your Pundit brain could not find anything to support your criticism of BAF purchases of non-BVR planes. May I ask, why do you believe in that BVR fantasy idea?



Ok genius. Just a few points... The benchmark IMO for aerial warfare is the USAF, USN, and the IAF. Now, the first two have been wrong in the past. I.e. The gunless versions of the Phantom. However, look at all the reports in the air excercies with 5th and 4th gen aircraft. The 4th gen don't even know the 5th gen are there. 5th gen have been DOMiNATING. Now, this as all theoretical and not actual combat or whatever. But the fact is. The USAF, USN, the IAF and a lot of other first rate air arms with means are choosing the F-35 which is reportedly kinectically inferior to its Russian and Chinese counterparts. BVR capability and situational awareness. (Sensor fusion needed in the BVR realm) are key components in all this. Not to mention stealth.

The BAF not choosing "BVR types" has more to do with the inadequacies of Bangladesh/BAF than any kind of strategic procurement plan.

Any thoughts otherwise are an alternate reality.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Ok genius. Just a few points... The benchmark IMO for aerial warfare is the USAF, USN, and the IAF. Now, the first two have been wrong in the past. I.e. The gunless versions of the Phantom. However, look at all the reports in the air excercies with 5th and 4th gen aircraft. The 4th gen don't even know the 5th gen are there. 5th gen have been DOMiNATING. Now, this as all theoretical and not actual combat or whatever. But the fact is. The USAF, USN, the IAF and a lot of other first rate air arms with means are choosing the F-35 which is reportedly kinectically inferior to its Russian and Chinese counterparts. BVR capability and situational awareness. (Sensor fusion needed in the BVR realm) are key components in all this. Not to mention stealth.
> 
> The BAF not choosing "BVR types" has more to do with the inadequacies of Bangladesh/BAF than any kind of strategic procurement plan.
> 
> Any thoughts otherwise are an alternate reality.




I agree with your general premise. BVR planes with AWACS backup and ramjet powered AAMs are really deadly.
@bluesky fails to realise that more than one BVR missile can be fired at an enemy plane to increase the hit probability. I saw a program a while back that a favourite tactic that will be used in BVR is to fire one missile first and the opposing plane will make evasive manouevres and so hopefully survive. Then within a short timespan another BVR missile is fired and that will almost certainly hit the target due to the fact the opposing plane is busy trying to avoid the first BVR missile.

One point that I will disagree with you is one on the F-35. The Jews actually wanted the F-22 but the US said no. The UK RAF wanted the F-22 and the USAF said no. For the USAF, it is no big deal to have large numbers of F-35 as they will have F-22s for air-dominance. Even the US admits that the F-35 will be totally obsolette by 2030 when planes from a lot of other countries are in service.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I agree with your general premise. BVR planes with AWACS backup and ramjet powered AAMs are really deadly.
> @bluesky fails to realise that more than one BVR missile can be fired at an enemy plane to increase the hit probability. I saw a program a while back that a favourite tactic that will be used in BVR is to fire one missile first and the opposing plane will make evasive manouevres and so hopefully survive. Then within a short timespan another BVR missile is fired and that will almost certainly hit the target due to the fact the opposing plane is busy trying to avoid the first BVR missile.
> 
> One point that I will disagree with you is one on the F-35. The Jews actually wanted the F-22 but the US said no. The UK RAF wanted the F-22 and the USAF said no. For the USAF, it is no big deal to have large numbers of F-35 as they will have F-22s for air-dominance. Even the US admits that the F-35 will be totally obsolette by 2030 when planes from a lot of other countries are in service.



Everybody wants the F-22. 

The reality is when nations have a choice between the F-35 or Eurocanards, they go for the F-35. Or both in a few cases. This may be due to political reasons sure. But BVR, sitaultional awareness, stealth are the hallmarks of modern combat. 

When was the last time you had an actual WVR engagement in all the conflicts the world has seen in the last 20 years.

The only one I can recall recently is the Syrian SU-22 shot down recently by a USN super hornet.


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## Bilal9

bluesky said:


> BVR capability is certainly not a sure success when one thinks of speed running of each plane. Contrary to what people think, BVR (Beyond Visible Range) has very low number of combat success. Here is an excerpt from an internet analysis.
> 
> "-----In practice, BVR promise fell short. During the entire Cold War, 407 kills were made with missiles in eight conflicts, with reliable data for ninth conflict, Iran-Iraq war, not being avaliable. *Only four saw use of radar-guided BVR missiles*: Rolling Thunder and Linebacker in Vietnam, Yom Kippur War, and conflict over Bekaa Valley".
> 
> "In total, 144 kills were made with guns, 308 with heat-seeking missiles and 73 with radar-guided missiles. Out of 73 radar-guided missile kills, 69 were scored *within visual range (WVR)*, with remaining four being carefully staged outside combat".
> 
> "Even though majority of BVR missile shots in Vietnam were made from visual range, killing was still 9.6%. In fact, F-4 consistently under performed until it was given guns and pilots were *taught how to dogfight.*
> Further, in these 407 kills, most targets were unaware and fired at from the rear, and *there were almost no head-on BVR shots due to high closing speeds of aircraft involved*. This shows that good rearward visibility from cockpit is still important despite all technological advancements.-----"



BVR and WVR Missiles can be easily defeated with all sorts of countermeasures such as cobra maneuvers, magnetic and optical chaff, signal jamming, exhaust deflectors, heat shields, magnetic nodule coatings in stealth aircraft etc. They are upping the ante on these things every day. I probably missed half the list of the countermeasures though....

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> BVR and WVR Missiles can be easily defeated with all sorts of countermeasures such as cobra maneuvers, magnetic and optical chaff, signal jamming, exhaust deflectors, heat shields, magnetic nodule coatings in stealth aircraft etc. They are upping the ante on these things every day. I probably missed half the list of the countermeasures though....


imo the only success against enemies with BVR was against incompetent pilot with lack of situational awareness

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
*বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী BAF has floated tenders তাদের Special Commondo Unit স্পেশাল কমান্ডো ইউনিট "41 Squadron" এর জন্য ২০০ টি 200 X 9x19mm SMG's সাব-মেশিনগান, ২২০ টি 220 X mm পিস্তল and 100X , ১০০ টি 7.62mm Pistols পিস্তল এবং দেড় লক্ষ রাউন্ড along with 1,500,00 rounds of 9x19mm SMG Ammo সাব-মেশিনগান এর গুলির জন্য টেন্ডার আহ্বান করেছে।*
*১ম টেন্ডার লিংক-* http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1684.pdf
*
২য় টেন্ডার লিংক-* http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1688.pdf

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## masud



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## Avicenna

masud said:


> View attachment 433952
> View attachment 433953



3 pairs of Mittens in the air!


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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> 3 pairs of Mittens in the air!


i always read it as Kittens

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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> i always read it as Kittens



You naughty kittens - you lost your mittens!

You shall have no pie....

But 'mittens' as a code-name is as high on the 'cute 'factor as anything else....

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
1 hr · 



*♦Good News



♦
Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) has received it's first AW-119 Training helicopter.
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের প্রথম the first AW-119 hasbeen received ট্রেইনার হেলিকপ্টারের ডেলিভারি পেয়েছে।
ইটালি থেকে এরকম 2 X of these were purchased from Italy ২ টি কেনা হয়েছে যার প্রথমটির ডেলিভারি দেয়া হয়েছে।
বাকিটা পরে আসবে।
But sorry to say that camouflage is ridiculous.
বিকালে ছবি আপলোড করা হবে
(ছবিটা প্রতীকী)*

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## bdslph

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 1 hr ·
> 
> 
> 
> *♦Good News
> 
> 
> 
> ♦
> Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) has received it's first AW-119 Training helicopter.
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের প্রথম the first AW-119 hasbeen received ট্রেইনার হেলিকপ্টারের ডেলিভারি পেয়েছে।
> ইটালি থেকে এরকম 2 X of these were purchased from Italy ২ টি কেনা হয়েছে যার প্রথমটির ডেলিভারি দেয়া হয়েছে।
> বাকিটা পরে আসবে।
> But sorry to say that camouflage is ridiculous.
> বিকালে ছবি আপলোড করা হবে
> (ছবিটা প্রতীকী)*



maybe they will also use it for private . if some one wants to fly somewhere else then they can rent it out if that is the case the camo is ok.






*Многофункциональный истребитель Су-30СМ*

*SU30 SM in ACTION new video *


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## Banglar Bir

*The very first AW-119 of Bangladesh Air Force.
These will be used for training purpose and we can clearly see the squadron insignia of "Squadron-18"*

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## BDforever

Banglar Bir said:


> *The very first AW-119 of Bangladesh Air Force.
> These will be used for training purpose and we can clearly see the squadron insignia of "Squadron-18"*
> 
> View attachment 434135


 that camo  is this from circus ?

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## Banglar Bir

BDforever said:


> that camo  is this from circus ?


Basic Training and SAR Aircrafts are basically known as " Lipstick" in BAF, starting from PT-6, even Fouga Magisters,K-8,were nicknamed as such. Some distinguished members, expert in AC's, could perhaps explain the reasons.

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## Bilal9

Banglar Bir said:


> Basic Training and SAR Aircrafts are basically known as " Lipstick" in BAF, starting from PT-6, even Fouga Magisters,K-8,were nicknamed as such. Some distinguished members, expert in AC's, could perhaps explain the reasons.



Training and SAR aircraft have a higher than normal probability to get lost or Allah forbid, crash.

If they meet ground sooner than normal, these aircraft have to be found.

Hence the gaudy coloring and eye-catching schemes, some in Dayglo orange, yellow and red.

This is common across all air arms of armed forces the world over.

I fondly remember our Fouga Magisters back in the day...

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
Cockpit of Bangladesh Air Force's new bird AW-119KX.
This is the latest version of AW-119. It has fully glass cockpit.
Real beauty*

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## Bilal9

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> Cockpit of Bangladesh Air Force's new bird AW-119KX.
> This is the latest version of AW-119. It has fully glass cockpit.
> Real beauty*



Wow, Real Beauty this is..... Full Glass EFIS comprising PFD, EADI and EHSI.

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## Banglar Bir

Bilal9 said:


> *Full Glass EFIS comprising PFD, EADI and EHSI.*


Brother instead of searching in the internet by every moron like me ,why don't you kindly explain in simple terms what these really means.

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## bdslph

Banglar Bir said:


> *The very first AW-119 of Bangladesh Air Force.
> These will be used for training purpose and we can clearly see the squadron insignia of "Squadron-18"*
> 
> View attachment 434135



why camo and name are becoming worse every time under this government 
what kind of camo is that your right its for circus clown


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Banglar Bir said:


> *The very first AW-119 of Bangladesh Air Force.
> These will be used for training purpose and we can clearly see the squadron insignia of "Squadron-18"*
> 
> View attachment 434135


Camo looking same. Crickter's are returning home from south africa.

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## Bilal9

Banglar Bir said:


> Brother instead of searching in the internet by every moron like me ,why don't you kindly explain in simple terms what these really means.



An *electronic flight instrument system* (*EFIS*) is a flight deck instrument display system that displays flight data electronically rather than electro-mechanically (using analog dials and gauges like in the old days).

An EFIS normally consists of a primary flight display (PFD), multi-function display (MFD), and an engine indicating and crew alerting system (EICAS) display.

Please follow the bolded hyperlinks for each item.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
5 hrs ·
*From Bangladesh,with Love.....
BAF in their forthcoming Medium range AD Missiles বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের আপকামিং মিডিয়াম রেঞ্জ এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল will deploy LY-80E MRSAM along te Burmese border কে মিয়ানমার সীমান্তের কাছে মোতায়ন করবে।সেখানে এতদিন শর্ট রেঞ্জ এয়ারডিফেন্স সিস্টেম in addition to FM-90 SAM, already positioned there ছিলো।তার সাথে এখন LY-80 যোগ হবে।

By March-April 2018 ২০১৮ সালের মার্চ-এপ্রিল মাসে LY-80 will be received কে ডেলিভারি দেয়া হবে।আপাতত initially 1 X Battery has been purchased ১ ব্যাটারি কিনলেও পরেsubsequently under G2G,addational purchases will be made এর মাধ্যমে আরো কেনা হবে।এই মিসাইলের রেঞ্জ range 40-45 KM ৪০-৪৫ কিমি।*

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## Banglar Bir

*An undelivered promise: BAF*
*BDforever*





*




Have we been flying ‘strategically blind’?BIGSTOCK*
*BAF stands at the front-line of our nation’s defense*
In modern warfare, combatants are able to intrude into enemy airspace to strike directly at civilian targets with little warning. This ability will only increase with time.

We can therefore see how it is critically important for the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) to have the ability to anticipate, pre-empt, and respond to such threats to its people, military, and civil infrastructure.

Since the inception of air warfare, the inherent characteristics of speed, reach, and flexibility mean that air power is the first line of defense against any threat posed by a rogue nation or terrorist organisation.

As such, we need to consider the possibility that we are flying “strategically blind,” given that we are living next to a hostile aggressor who does not respect human rights, democratic values, or regional harmony.
*The current situation*
As a uniformed military organisation, it is BAF’s duty to be at the front-line of our nation’s defense.

BAF’s principal focus should be to change significantly in professionalism, technical mastery, operational capability, air defense systems, and adherence to air force values. BAF should build an infrastructure capable of operating the current and future generation fighter jets.

Significant emphasis should be given to developing the workforce, technology, and war-fighting capabilities. BAF must place greater emphasis on ensuring their personnel can exploit the full potential of our future platforms and systems. This requirement will extend to the existing leaders of BAF becoming the practitioners of the high-tech war machine in the information age.
*A history of prosecution*
BAF currently does not have a formally documented and widely-accessible air warfare strategy, nor does it have many publicly identifiable strategic thinkers. Such weaknesses were dictated by the previous BNP-led government, and not enough attention is given to how BAF can offer input into the process which leads to its creation of a capable air force.

BAF officers were retrenched and prosecuted by the BNP-led government for recommending the procurement of fighter jets in the past.
*Not thinking strategically *
*Strategic imagination was almost entirely ignored during the recent MRCA tender floated by BAF which allows only Russia to participate with only one type of fighter jet. The Russians also used the opportunity to present a favourable deal which led to delay or the withdrawal of the MMRA tender.*

For BAF to be able to fully defend the people of Bangladesh, this must change.

Initiatives such as the procurement of medium multi-role fighter jets and air defense systems are critical. BAF should re-evaluate the MMRA tender and allow Boeing and Saab Defense to participate in the bidding
*The priority *
Emphasis must be given to the establishment of air force bases, an air force command and communication centre, air traffic control independent of civilian air traffic control, training facilities, and, most importantly, medium and long-range air defense systems in order to protect national assets such as the Rooppur nuclear power plant, our transport infrastructure, seaports, and container terminals.
*Medium multi-role combat aircraft for BAF*
Initiatives such as the procurement of medium multi-role fighter jets and air defense systems are critical given the circumstances. I believe BAF should re-evaluate the MMRA tender and allow Boeing and Saab Defense to participate in the bidding to supply at least a squadron of fighter jets and associated support infrastructure.

*The following sections articulate how Saab Gripen NG and Boeing F/A-18 E/F matches Bangladesh’s requirements.*
*Gripen next generation*
*Pros*: Gripen NG is a network-centric, Information Age fighter jet. The Gripen provides technological advantages over any other fighter jet available in this region. The Gripen NG is packed with an advanced radar and avionics suite that outmatches any potential opponent. It is packed with features and is armed with new generation air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions.

The Gripen also brings maritime strike capabilities in its portfolio. Sweden has been neutral in any direct political conflict which makes it easy to align with Bangladesh’s strategic goal.
*Cons*: The Gripen is not combat-proven. Sweden was never in Bangladesh’s defense spotlight.
*F/A-18E/F Super Hornet *
*Pros*: F/A-18 is combat proven and widely used by many countries. The new generation F/A-18 is packed with advanced avionics, electronics, and software that outmatches any potential threats BAF may face in the future. The F/A-18’s unmatched capability to strike any naval assets is beyond doubt. The F/A-18 is also packed with a vast array of munitions to overwhelm the enemy with sheer firepower.

*Cons*: Although the current political environment in Washington, DC is favourable to Bangladesh, the F/A-18 comes with a political clause in the future acquisition of any F/A-18 armaments. As long as Bangladesh remains a democratic nation, political risks can be mitigated, and support systems can be outsourced from a third country.

BAF should deploy the systems, sensors, and networks to demonstrate efficient air and situational awareness around Bangladesh. The more technologically-advanced capabilities will characterise the future of BAF for intelligence, surveillance, war-fighting, reconnaissance systems, and long-range air defense and strike weapons employed by the air force.
_Raihan Al-Beruni is a contractor and analyst for a global defense and security supplier based in Australia. 
http://www.dhakatribune.com/opinion/op-ed/2017/11/01/an-undelivered-promise/_

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## bdslph

Banglar Bir said:


> *An undelivered promise: BAF*
> *BDforever*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have we been flying ‘strategically blind’?BIGSTOCK
> BAF stands at the front-line of our nation’s defense*
> In modern warfare, combatants are able to intrude into enemy airspace to strike directly at civilian targets with little warning. This ability will only increase with time.
> 
> We can therefore see how it is critically important for the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) to have the ability to anticipate, pre-empt, and respond to such threats to its people, military, and civil infrastructure.
> 
> Since the inception of air warfare, the inherent characteristics of speed, reach, and flexibility mean that air power is the first line of defense against any threat posed by a rogue nation or terrorist organisation.
> 
> As such, we need to consider the possibility that we are flying “strategically blind,” given that we are living next to a hostile aggressor who does not respect human rights, democratic values, or regional harmony.
> *The current situation*
> As a uniformed military organisation, it is BAF’s duty to be at the front-line of our nation’s defense.
> 
> BAF’s principal focus should be to change significantly in professionalism, technical mastery, operational capability, air defense systems, and adherence to air force values. BAF should build an infrastructure capable of operating the current and future generation fighter jets.
> 
> Significant emphasis should be given to developing the workforce, technology, and war-fighting capabilities. BAF must place greater emphasis on ensuring their personnel can exploit the full potential of our future platforms and systems. This requirement will extend to the existing leaders of BAF becoming the practitioners of the high-tech war machine in the information age.
> *A history of prosecution*
> BAF currently does not have a formally documented and widely-accessible air warfare strategy, nor does it have many publicly identifiable strategic thinkers. Such weaknesses were dictated by the previous BNP-led government, and not enough attention is given to how BAF can offer input into the process which leads to its creation of a capable air force.
> 
> BAF officers were retrenched and prosecuted by the BNP-led government for recommending the procurement of fighter jets in the past.
> *Not thinking strategically *
> *Strategic imagination was almost entirely ignored during the recent MRCA tender floated by BAF which allows only Russia to participate with only one type of fighter jet. The Russians also used the opportunity to present a favourable deal which led to delay or the withdrawal of the MMRA tender.*
> 
> For BAF to be able to fully defend the people of Bangladesh, this must change.
> 
> Initiatives such as the procurement of medium multi-role fighter jets and air defense systems are critical. BAF should re-evaluate the MMRA tender and allow Boeing and Saab Defense to participate in the bidding
> *The priority *
> Emphasis must be given to the establishment of air force bases, an air force command and communication centre, air traffic control independent of civilian air traffic control, training facilities, and, most importantly, medium and long-range air defense systems in order to protect national assets such as the Rooppur nuclear power plant, our transport infrastructure, seaports, and container terminals.
> *Medium multi-role combat aircraft for BAF*
> Initiatives such as the procurement of medium multi-role fighter jets and air defense systems are critical given the circumstances. I believe BAF should re-evaluate the MMRA tender and allow Boeing and Saab Defense to participate in the bidding to supply at least a squadron of fighter jets and associated support infrastructure.
> 
> *The following sections articulate how Saab Gripen NG and Boeing F/A-18 E/F matches Bangladesh’s requirements.*
> *Gripen next generation*
> *Pros*: Gripen NG is a network-centric, Information Age fighter jet. The Gripen provides technological advantages over any other fighter jet available in this region. The Gripen NG is packed with an advanced radar and avionics suite that outmatches any potential opponent. It is packed with features and is armed with new generation air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions.
> 
> The Gripen also brings maritime strike capabilities in its portfolio. Sweden has been neutral in any direct political conflict which makes it easy to align with Bangladesh’s strategic goal.
> *Cons*: The Gripen is not combat-proven. Sweden was never in Bangladesh’s defense spotlight.
> *F/A-18E/F Super Hornet *
> *Pros*: F/A-18 is combat proven and widely used by many countries. The new generation F/A-18 is packed with advanced avionics, electronics, and software that outmatches any potential threats BAF may face in the future. The F/A-18’s unmatched capability to strike any naval assets is beyond doubt. The F/A-18 is also packed with a vast array of munitions to overwhelm the enemy with sheer firepower.
> 
> *Cons*: Although the current political environment in Washington, DC is favourable to Bangladesh, the F/A-18 comes with a political clause in the future acquisition of any F/A-18 armaments. As long as Bangladesh remains a democratic nation, political risks can be mitigated, and support systems can be outsourced from a third country.
> 
> BAF should deploy the systems, sensors, and networks to demonstrate efficient air and situational awareness around Bangladesh. The more technologically-advanced capabilities will characterise the future of BAF for intelligence, surveillance, war-fighting, reconnaissance systems, and long-range air defense and strike weapons employed by the air force.
> _Raihan Al-Beruni is a contractor and analyst for a global defense and security supplier based in Australia.
> http://www.dhakatribune.com/opinion/op-ed/2017/11/01/an-undelivered-promise/_



2 things STRING ATTACHED AND EXPENSIVE 

WE DONT HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT FROM RUSSIA AND CHINA


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## mb444

Utter gibberish.... to blame BNP when they have been out of power for so long is a height of stupidity although there is some merit in the claims.

BAF does not seem to have much vision and is directionless. It is time to correct this as a matter of priority.

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## bdslph

the article is some how garbage though
the Blame lies within BAF


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## Bengal Tiger 71

Myanmar getting 1sqd. JF 17 Block 2 last of this year, where BAF was raise a tender Feb 17 8+4 only, till now nobody knows what is going on. one side they have 31 Mig 29 BAF have 8, they are getting JF 17 BAF has none. ridiculous. as per BD military website news Russia want to give TOT of Mig 35. China giving J10B. then what is next F35!!!

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## bdslph

what we need is like 50 J10 B & C Model, Mig35 1squad, SU30 1squad
the present 8 Mig29 upgrade them to SMT model and add more 8 Mig29 SMT to full the squad. 

i am not saying this to be done in one year but in quickly few years time


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## Flynn Swagmire

bdslph said:


> what we need is like 50 J10 B & C Model, Mig35 1squad, SU30 1squad
> the present 8 Mig29 upgrade them to SMT model and add more 8 Mig29 SMT to full the squad.
> 
> i am not saying this to be done in one year but in quickly few years time


Do you think we pump oil brah?

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## Bengal Tiger 71

bdslph said:


> what we need is like 50 J10 B & C Model, Mig35 1squad, SU30 1squad
> the present 8 Mig29 upgrade them to SMT model and add more 8 Mig29 SMT to full the squad.
> 
> i am not saying this to be done in one year but in quickly few years time


3 version, just sheet!! within 5 year time period Su 30 2 sqd., J10B 2 sqd. if BAF bought 2 origin then overhaul plant could be made in BD. i know what is possible for BD within this time. last 10 years no 4+ birds came. only training fleet are procured. now time to boost up.


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## BDforever

Cannon Fodder said:


> Do you think we pump oil brah?


we have and some are shield off for now
FYI large amount of democracy usually found and suppose to be found in delta area around the world. Now go figure

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> we have and some are shield off for now
> FYI large amount of democracy usually found and suppose to be found in delta area around the world. Now go figure


I said we dont "pump" oil...

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## ghost250

1. Russia is not keen on exporting Su-30/Su-35 to Bangladesh without selling MiG-35.

2. The BAF did not show any major interest on the MiG-35 however to ensure its success Russia has offered both credit and transfer of technology to produce a lot of components of the aircraft and an MRO plant. The first batch of MiGs would be built in Russia though but assembled by BAC.

3. BAF has ordered some special plant for manufacturing plastics and synthetic components for airframes of aircraft and UAVs.

4. BAF has also ordered an aerial ammunition MRO plant for BAC.

5. BAC wants to built fighters, trainers, UAVs and munitions for BAF and export.
(syed amar khan-bdmilitary)

thats all we have now about MRCA..


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## Bengal Tiger 71

shourov323 said:


> 1. Russia is not keen on exporting Su-30/Su-35 to Bangladesh without selling MiG-35.
> 
> 2. The BAF did not show any major interest on the MiG-35 however to ensure its success Russia has offered both credit and transfer of technology to produce a lot of components of the aircraft and an MRO plant. The first batch of MiGs would be built in Russia though but assembled by BAC.
> 
> 3. BAF has ordered some special plant for manufacturing plastics and synthetic components for airframes of aircraft and UAVs.
> 
> 4. BAF has also ordered an aerial ammunition MRO plant for BAC.
> 
> 5. BAC wants to built fighters, trainers, UAVs and munitions for BAF and export.
> (syed amar khan-bdmilitary)
> 
> thats all we have now about MRCA..


Which is better JF 17 block 2 or Mig 35?


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
In Sha Allah...... within 2020-21
BAF is going to buy HQ-9/FD 2000 SAM system from China to secure it's territory. It's a Long Range Surface to Air Missile System developed by China.Mainly it's an upgraded version of Russian S-300 SAM system.It's range is 200 km. It is effective against any kind of aerial threats like Fighter Aircraft, UAV,Cruise missile even Ballistic missiles in "Limited role".
It will surely boost BAF capabilities.*





*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
Zhuk-ME AESA Radar
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের ৬ টি 6 X MiG-29B ফাইটারে এই AESA রাডার বসাচ্ছে। এটি রাশিয়ার নির্মিত অন্যতম সেরা Russian AESA Radar System রাডার সিস্টেম। এর ডিটেকশন রেঞ্জ range 180 km ১৮০ কিমি,একসাথে ১০ টি টার্গেট ডিটেক্ট করে একই সাথে ৪ টি টার্গেটে হামলা করতে পারবে।

২০১৮ সালের শুরুর দিকে এই কাজ শুরু হবে।বাকি দুইটি 2 X MIG-29UB তে নতুন with OLS (optical locator system) বসানো হবে।
নতুন Zhuk-ME AESA রাডার বসানোর ফলে আমাদের মিগ-২৯ গুলো আরো শক্তিশালী capable to launch BVR মিসাইল R-77 Missiles বহন করতে সক্ষম হবে।*







shourov323 said:


> 1. Russia is not keen on exporting Su-30/Su-35 to Bangladesh without selling MiG-35.
> 2. The BAF did not show any major interest on the MiG-35 however to ensure its success Russia has offered both credit and transfer of technology to produce a lot of components of the aircraft and an MRO plant. The first batch of MiGs would be built in Russia though but assembled by BAC.
> 3. BAF has ordered some special plant for manufacturing plastics and synthetic components for airframes of aircraft and UAVs.
> 4. BAF has also ordered an aerial ammunition MRO plant for BAC.
> 5. BAC wants to built fighters, trainers, UAVs and munitions for BAF and export.
> (syed amar khan-bdmilitary)
> thats all we have now about MRCA..


*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB* 
*আপনারা এখন প্রায় সকলেই জানেন যে রাশিয়া তাদের মিগ-৩৫ বিমান এর মেইনটেইনেন্স, ওভারহোলিং ও আরও কিছু স্পেয়ার পার্টস বাংলাদেশ এ বানানোর অফার করেছে। টট অফার করেছে কিনা তা এখনো শিউর হয়ে বলা যাচ্ছে না।
কিন্তু করলে ভাল না করলে প্রব্লেম নেই। 
এখন আসি মূল কথায়।

আপনারা অনেকেই BAF উপর বিরক্ত ছিলেন, তারা MRCA এর ব্যাপার এ এত দেরী করছে কেন? হয়ত এইই অফার এর জন্যই!!! এখন BAF যদি মিগ -৩৫ কিনে তা হবে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর মেরুদণ্ড। 
আর যেহেতু আগেই বলেছিলাম MRCA ২০২২/২৪ এর আগে আসবে না তাই হয়ত BAF আগে মিগ-৩৫ কিনে পরে আস্তে ধীরে MRCA এর জন্য যাবে। 
আর মিগ-৩৫ MRCA এর ৮৫% কাজ করতে পারে। তাই এখন পর্যন্ত BAF এর কাজ কাম দেখে মনে হচ্ছে BAF আগে তাদের মেইন এয়ারক্রাফট কিনে পরে MRCA কিনবে। 
এখন যদি মিগ-৩৫ কিনে তাইলে হেভী MRCA এর দরকার এখনি নেই।তারা হয়ত Su-30 না কিনে আরও কিছু টাকা দিয়ে একসাথে Su-35 ই নিয়ে নিবে।
মিগ-৩৫ এর ডিল আর MRCA এর ডিল পুরোপুরি আলাদা। মিগ-৩৫ ডিল হলে তা হবে G2G মাধ্যমে আর MRCA এর হবে টেন্ডার এর মাধ্যমে।*





*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB added a new photo.
ছবিটি দেখে বিখ্যাত Hackler & Koch Mp-5 মনে হলেও এটি this is a Swiss made সুইজারল্যান্ড এর নির্মিত Brugger & Thomet BT-96 9mm SMG.
এটি মুলত clone of Mp-5 এর ক্লোন। বর্তমানে অন্যতম সেরা সাবমেশিনগানের একটি।

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF's Special Commondo Unit স্পেশাল কমান্ডো ইউনিট "41 Squardon ৪১ স্কোয়াড্রন" এর জন্য 200 X SMG'S ২০০ টি সাব-মেশিনগানের যে টেন্ডার ডেকেছিলো তার অন্যতম প্রতিদ্বন্দ্বী এটি।
অন্যান্যগুলোর মধ্যে আছে SIG MPX এবং Kriss Vector SMG*

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> In Sha Allah...... within 2020-21
> BAF is going to buy HQ-9/FD 2000 SAM system from China to secure it's territory. It's a Long Range Surface to Air Missile System developed by China.Mainly it's an upgraded version of Russian S-300 SAM system.It's range is 200 km. It is effective against any kind of aerial threats like Fighter Aircraft, UAV,Cruise missile even Ballistic missiles in "Limited role".
> It will surely boost BAF capabilities.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> Zhuk-ME AESA Radar
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের ৬ টি 6 X MiG-29B ফাইটারে এই AESA রাডার বসাচ্ছে। এটি রাশিয়ার নির্মিত অন্যতম সেরা Russian AESA Radar System রাডার সিস্টেম। এর ডিটেকশন রেঞ্জ range 180 km ১৮০ কিমি,একসাথে ১০ টি টার্গেট ডিটেক্ট করে একই সাথে ৪ টি টার্গেটে হামলা করতে পারবে।
> 
> ২০১৮ সালের শুরুর দিকে এই কাজ শুরু হবে।বাকি দুইটি 2 X MIG-29UB তে নতুন with OLS (optical locator system) বসানো হবে।
> নতুন Zhuk-ME AESA রাডার বসানোর ফলে আমাদের মিগ-২৯ গুলো আরো শক্তিশালী capable to launch BVR মিসাইল R-77 Missiles বহন করতে সক্ষম হবে।*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> আপনারা এখন প্রায় সকলেই জানেন যে রাশিয়া তাদের মিগ-৩৫ বিমান এর মেইনটেইনেন্স, ওভারহোলিং ও আরও কিছু স্পেয়ার পার্টস বাংলাদেশ এ বানানোর অফার করেছে। টট অফার করেছে কিনা তা এখনো শিউর হয়ে বলা যাচ্ছে না।
> কিন্তু করলে ভাল না করলে প্রব্লেম নেই।
> এখন আসি মূল কথায়।
> 
> আপনারা অনেকেই BAF উপর বিরক্ত ছিলেন, তারা MRCA এর ব্যাপার এ এত দেরী করছে কেন? হয়ত এইই অফার এর জন্যই!!! এখন BAF যদি মিগ -৩৫ কিনে তা হবে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর মেরুদণ্ড।
> আর যেহেতু আগেই বলেছিলাম MRCA ২০২২/২৪ এর আগে আসবে না তাই হয়ত BAF আগে মিগ-৩৫ কিনে পরে আস্তে ধীরে MRCA এর জন্য যাবে।
> আর মিগ-৩৫ MRCA এর ৮৫% কাজ করতে পারে। তাই এখন পর্যন্ত BAF এর কাজ কাম দেখে মনে হচ্ছে BAF আগে তাদের মেইন এয়ারক্রাফট কিনে পরে MRCA কিনবে।
> এখন যদি মিগ-৩৫ কিনে তাইলে হেভী MRCA এর দরকার এখনি নেই।তারা হয়ত Su-30 না কিনে আরও কিছু টাকা দিয়ে একসাথে Su-35 ই নিয়ে নিবে।
> মিগ-৩৫ এর ডিল আর MRCA এর ডিল পুরোপুরি আলাদা। মিগ-৩৫ ডিল হলে তা হবে G2G মাধ্যমে আর MRCA এর হবে টেন্ডার এর মাধ্যমে।*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB added a new photo.
> ছবিটি দেখে বিখ্যাত Hackler & Koch Mp-5 মনে হলেও এটি this is a Swiss made সুইজারল্যান্ড এর নির্মিত Brugger & Thomet BT-96 9mm SMG.
> এটি মুলত clone of Mp-5 এর ক্লোন। বর্তমানে অন্যতম সেরা সাবমেশিনগানের একটি।
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF's Special Commondo Unit স্পেশাল কমান্ডো ইউনিট "41 Squardon ৪১ স্কোয়াড্রন" এর জন্য 200 X SMG'S ২০০ টি সাব-মেশিনগানের যে টেন্ডার ডেকেছিলো তার অন্যতম প্রতিদ্বন্দ্বী এটি।
> অন্যান্যগুলোর মধ্যে আছে SIG MPX এবং Kriss Vector SMG*


Amar mone hoi BAF jodi Russiar shate boro akta deal kore, bishesh kore Russia chacche Mig 35 kinuk BD ata hole Russia ke hoito rohingya issue te pashe paowa jete pare. kintu amader shobari Mig ar bapare alergi ache. akdike MM ar JF17 r dada der Su 30, Rafale BAF ar Mig 35 kotota advantage nite parbe sheta chintar bishoi. jai hok jetai kinuk within 5 year BAF ar dorker 48 baz pakhi. kono dhilami korle shamne onek bipod ache. akhoni desher shimante dhukche duidin por dekhajabe dhil churche.

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## Banglar Bir

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> .*kintu amader shobari Mig ar bapare alergi ache. jai hok jetai kinuk within 5 year BAF ar dorker 48 baz pakhi. kono dhilami korle shamne onek bipod ache. akhoni desher shimante dhukche duidin por dekhajabe dhil churche.*


Bhaijan, amadar so called boro bhai chai na amra Su-30 SME pai,tadar pressure ae Mig-35 kinta force korcha.
Apnar baki shob kothar satha ami sompurno akmot.


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## BDforever

Banglar Bir said:


> Bhaijan, amadar so called boro bhai chai na amra Su-30 SME pai,tadar pressure ae Mig-35 kinta force korcha.
> Apnar baki shob kothar satha ami sompurno akmot.


su30sme hoche boro bhai er biman er downgrade version. Ami chai na BAF aita kinuk. bikolpo gula hochey Mig35, J10 or Jas39NG, Su series er operational cost beshi

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## Banglar Bir

BDforever said:


> su30sme hoche boro bhai er biman er downgrade version. Ami chai na BAF aita kinuk. bikolpo gula hochey Mig35, J10 or Jas39NG, Su series er operational cost beshi


Shukran brother.

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## Flynn Swagmire

BDforever said:


> su30sme hoche boro bhai er biman er downgrade version. Ami chai na BAF aita kinuk. bikolpo gula hochey Mig35, J10 or Jas39NG, Su series er operational cost beshi


We should start looking for European options. Their weapons are expensive but reliable and efficient...

And if I am not wrong, we do have better understanding with Europeans.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Ata amra shobai bujtesi je jonnoi deal ta atodin atke ache. shamne to aro deshe election jao possibility chilo akhon


Cannon Fodder said:


> We should start looking for European options. Their weapons are expensive but reliable and efficient...
> 
> And if I am not wrong, we do have better understanding with Europeans.


BD think tank need to seriously consider for SAB Gripan. next upcoming fleet 1 version from Europe & other one from Russia/China. good combination. any war time these two sides partner any one will be with us. so go for it.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BD think tank need to seriously consider for SAB Gripan. next upcoming fleet 1 version from Europe & other one from Russia/China. good combination. any war time these two sides partner any one will be with us. so go for it.


Our think tanks are one of the lowest quality out there... (no offense)


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## Banglar Bir

*Turkish defense industry eyes ASEAN aerospace market
DAILY SABAH WITH ANADOLU AGENCY*
ISTANBUL
Published November 7, 2017





TAI officials explain Turkish defense products to the authorities from ASEAN countries at the Thailand Defense and Security Fair, Bangkok, Nov. 7.
*The growing defense industry aims to expand to become the largest defense exporter with Turkish Aerospace Industries seeking export and cooperation opportunities in Bangkok*
The domestic defense industry has experienced a swift transformation in less than a decade. Turkey has become more involved in co-production and co-development defense projects, which have also created export opportunities heavily sought after by the country's main defense companies.

A leading defense company, Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) now eyes to enter the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) market with the aerospace platforms it manufactures. The company is reported to have conducted a series of negotiations with the representatives and supply authorities of the countries that attended the Thailand Defense and Security Fair, which will close its gates tomorrow.

TAI General Manager Temel Kotil and company executives accompanying him have met delegations from Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines and Vietnam as well as delegations from Singapore and South Korea and discussed the cooperation and export opportunities in the Asia-Pacific region.

*The advanced attack and tactical reconnaissance helicopter ATAK, the unmanned armed vehicle (UAV) ANKA and the new generation basic trainer HÜRKUŞ received a lot attention from high-level fair attendees.*

ASEAN countries are an important potential export market for TAI's aerospace platforms. A proposal was already drawn up to export the ATAK helicopter to Thailand. In the upcoming days, a delegation from TAI will visit Thailand and continue its negotiations to start exports to the country.

Furthermore, the ANKA UAV drew Malaysian interest. TAI also submitted a proposal to the authorities in the country and is waiting for the results of the evaluations. For the export of ANKA, consultations with Indonesia also continue and a proposal for the platform was communicated to the Indonesian authorities.

*Apart from ASEAN countries, the South Asian country of Bangladesh is reported to have shown keen interest in ANKA, armed and unarmed HÜRKUŞ and the ATAK helicopter. *

Negotiations for the sale of 30 attack helicopters are going with the Pakistani government. Being a pilot himself, Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi examined the T129 ATAK Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopter, which has an important place in Turkey's defense industry exports, and participated in a test flight last month.

Following the test flight, Abbasi was reportedly said, "As a pilot, I can say this is the best and most effective attack helicopter in the world. The Pakistani Armed Forces tested this helicopter for four years in all possible conditions and to the finest detail and found it to be the number-one choice and the most successful in technical terms."

The Pakistani prime minister also informed that the negotiations are continuing positively at full speed, announcing that the Pakistani Armed Forces will add the ATAK helicopter to its inventory.
*Dubai, the destination for Gulf countries*
TAI is scheduled to attend the Dubai Airshow, which will run from Nov. 12 to Nov. 16 to explore opportunities in the Gulf states. The ATAK helicopter will fly in Dubai for the first time during the first three days of the fair. TAI will also bring its ANKA-S, Hürkuş and T625 helicopters to the Dubai Airshow.

TAI is the largest defense and aviation industry exporter in the country for the sixth year in a row, according to the Turkish Exporters Assembly's (TİM) evaluations for the year 2016.

TAI leads Turkey's efforts in aerospace technology and is ranked among the top 100 global players in aerospace and defense. The company has five areas of operation, including aero-structures, planes, helicopters, UAVs and space systems.
*Turkish defense and aviation firms have made $1.07 billion exports worldwide in the first eight months of 2017, a slight increase from last year's $1.06 billion. 

The largest export of $443.9 million was made with the U.S. Germany came second with exports valued at $140.2 million. 
India came in third with $66.2 million. 
In 2016, the U.S. was the largest defense export market for Turkey followed by Germany, Malaysia, Azerbaijan, the U.K., the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. 

The top export items in 2015 were aircraft and helicopter parts, engines, tanks and other armored land vehicle parts, ammunition, turbojets for civilian aircraft, hunting rifles, and receiver/transmitter equipment for military use.

According to the Turkish Defense Industry Association, Turkey currently exports one-third of its defense industry production, worth about $5 billion. 
Meanwhile, according to the Undersecretariat of Defense Industries (SSM), the current domestic participation rate in defense projects is 50-60 percent and the defense industry has an aggressive goal to reach $25 billion and be self-sufficient by 2023. 
The SSM data of Turkey's 2016 defense exports reached $1.9 billion, which was $487 million in 2006.
https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/...dustry-eyes-asean-aerospace-market-1510079935*

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## Allah Akbar

Banglar Bir said:


> *The very first AW-119 of Bangladesh Air Force.
> These will be used for training purpose and we can clearly see the squadron insignia of "Squadron-18"*
> 
> View attachment 434135


Suvo pohela boishakh


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## Bilal9

warrantofficer said:


> Suvo pohela boishakh





Remind you of something, eh?

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## Banglar Bir

Bilal9 said:


> Remind you of something, eh?

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## Banglar Bir

*BDMilitary
New post (Bangladesh Air Force wants to purchase Turkish-built aircraft) has been published on Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com*




Bangladesh Air Force wants to purchase Turkish-built aircraft
*The Bangladesh Air Force displayed a keen interest in purchasing Turkish built military aircraft including Hürkuş primary training aircraft, T-129 ATACK attack…*
BDMILITARY.COM

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## Banglar Bir

*ব্রেকিংঃ বিমান বাহিনী লং রেঞ্জ মিসাইল কিনছে এবার 
Bangladesh Air Force Buying FD 2000 LRSAM*




New Defense BD Channel
*Published on Nov 5, 2017*




*Bangladesh Air Force going to induct Chinese FD-2000 long-range surface-to-air missile defense system. 

This acquisition will be activated just after deployment of the LY-80E medium-range air defense system. 

BAF currently has no such defensive military equipment rather some FM-90B short-range air defence missile systems in active service. 

FD-2000 is the export designation of the domestic Chinese version of HQ-9 long-range SAM system. It’s developed by the CPMIEC. 

Bangladesh Armed Forces has seeking some affordable and cost-effective air defense systems, which can be integrated into country’s existing air defence command network. BAF previously evaluating some options and choose Chinese one. 

This SAM platform will be deployed to protect Bangladesh’s important civil-military installations around the country. 

This long-range missile defense system has 200km of slant range. 
Can engage targets up to 27km altitude. 
Its main search radar can track 100 targets and designate 50 of them. 
Main fire control radar guide 6 interceptor missiles to hit 6 targets simultaneously. 
It is very much capable to operate under intensive enemy electronic jamming environment. 
FD-2000 SAM system can intercept fighter aircraft, attack helicopters, UAVs as well as cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air-to-ground missiles and stand-off range precision guided bombs too. 
Search and tracking radars have anti-stealth capabilities to track & shoot down stealth aircrafts.*

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## PDF

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Which is better JF 17 block 2 or Mig 35?


Mig 35 wins hands down currently. Even after the block III of JF-17 is unveiled, I still think The Mig 35 will be better. But JF-17 has its own advantages....Anyway, lets see what BAF inducts to its inventory not in rumors or papers but rather on the ground.

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## ghost250

a f-7 carrying a precision guided munition (FT-2)..

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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 435920
> 
> 
> a f-7 carrying a precision guided munition (FT-2)..



BAF also has the LS-500 munition variant which uses the same gliding mechanism as the FT2.



Banglar Bir said:


> *BDMilitary
> New post (Bangladesh Air Force wants to purchase Turkish-built aircraft) has been published on Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force wants to purchase Turkish-built aircraft
> *The Bangladesh Air Force displayed a keen interest in purchasing Turkish built military aircraft including Hürkuş primary training aircraft, T-129 ATACK attack…*
> BDMILITARY.COM



Great aircraft but IMHO the Pilatus PC-21 is so much more sleek and refined...just my two cents...

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## Banglar Bir

Bilal9 said:


> BAF also has the LS-500 munition variant which uses the same gliding mechanism as the FT2.
> Great aircraft but IMHO the Pilatus PC-21 is so much more sleek and refined...just my two cents...


*Honestly speaking, my area of expertise does not cover Combat Aircrafts and Naval platforms.*
As regarding Military hardware purchases, I rather perceive/take into cognizance the establishment of strong and firm ties/strategic partnership and assured bondages with friendly States, keeping into consideration the present Geo Strategic/Politics scenario of our region, including full assurances during the times of our National crisis, relating to any defence related matters.
My earlier experiences only solidified my beliefs,when Pakistan immensely assisted our devastated/crippled Armed Forces stationed in Chittogong, after the devastating Tsunami, during the previous crisis with Burma, once again relating to the Rohingya refugees.

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## Bilal9

M.Musa said:


> Mig 35 wins hands down currently. Even after the block III of JF-17 is unveiled, I still think The Mig 35 will be better. But JF-17 has its own advantages....Anyway, lets see what BAF inducts to its inventory not in rumors or papers but rather on the ground.



According to a well-regarded Bangladesh military site - Rosoboronexport has offered CKD assembly offer for MiG-35 to BAF. But like you said, let's see what happens on the ground.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
আমাদের দাদাদের চটি পেইজ যারা নাকি সত্য ব্যতীত মিথ্যা নিউজ দেয় না...








দাদাদের মতে আমাদের An indian Website has stated that one of our Yak-130 crashed due to Pilot error,whereas the Airforce inquiry team asertained that the accident occured due to faults in the Russian "Fly by Wire" system পাইলটের ভুলে ক্র‍্যাশ করেছে।
যেখানে এয়ারফোর্স তদন্ত করে বলেছে "ফ্লাই বাই ওয়্যার" সিস্টেমে সমস্যার জন্য বিমান ক্র‍্যাশ করেছে।
রাশিয়ান এয়ারফোর্সের একদিনে ২ টা Yak-130 ক্র‍্যাশ করে এই "ফ্লাই বাই ওয়্যার" এর সমস্যার জন্য। তাদের মতে এটা "pilot's error".... রাশিয়ান পাইলট কালা পারে না







তাদের পাইলট বিশ্বসেরা!!!! তাদের কোন বিমান ক্র‍্যাশ করে না কিন্তু......








আসলে যারা নির্লজ্জ, such mischevious and filthy liars বেহায়া যাদের that within a week 5 of the IAF's Crashed ১ সপ্তাহে ৫ টা এয়ারক্রাফট ক্র‍্যাশ রেকর্ড আছে তারা অন্য দেশের পাইলটের কোয়ালিটি নিয়ে প্রশ্ন তোলে।







Most funny part is they are asking for G2G links 
We should pray that they should grow up and be mature enough.*

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB added 2 new photos.
ছবিতে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF F-7BGI Fighter ফাইটার বিমানের বেলি হার্ডপয়েন্ট এ চীনের নির্মিত শক্তিশালী FT-2 PGB (Precision Guided Bomb) mounted on a hardpoint.
এটি ৬০০ কেজি ওজনের একটি weight 600 kg Precision Guided Bomb যা range 90km ৯০ কিমি দুরের লক্ষ্যবস্তুকে গুড়িয়ে দেয়ার জন্য যথেষ্ট।

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর BAF F-7BGI also uses other variants of এরকম আরো LS-PGB, LT-PGB নামক বিভিন্ন মডেলের শক্তিশালী Precision Guided Bomb ব্যবহার করে।*

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## Banglar Bir

*



**About Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center*
Defense Update Bangladesh
*Published on Nov 3, 2017
Bangladesh Air Force’s Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center (BAC) is the country’s first of its kind. 

This is a Bangladesh Ministry of Defense-owned aerospace defense security and advanced technology venture mainly focusing on avionics, aviation, and high-tech electronics. 

BAC is poised to build modern fighter jets in Bangladesh within next decade. 
BAC’s work domain includes aircraft design, development & manufacturing, and producing avionics systems for country’s armed forces. 

Manufacture and maintenance of radar, unmanned aerial vehicle and other defense systems for Bangladesh Army & Bangladesh Navy. 

It also performs maintenance and overhauling of the civil-military airplanes. 
There are strict restriction of exporting any product, technology or services to any foreign party. Bangladesh Air Force is operating and managing all the activities of this aviation industry. 

BAC is going to make operational an F-7 overhaul plant for BAF’s F-BG+F-7BGI fleet upgradation. Unmanned aerial vehicles will be built in BAC soon. 

An advanced 4.5th generation fighter jet development/manufacturing program has been planned to be done in BAC. Other allied aviation products like fighter jet spares, civil airplane’s parts, aerial munitions, aviation electronics, ground based radar systems etc. also are the products of BAC.*

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## Zabaniyah

Bilal9 said:


> According to a well-regarded Bangladesh military site - Rosoboronexport has offered CKD assembly offer for MiG-35 to BAF. But like you said, let's see what happens on the ground.



MiG-35 is the very likely candidate.

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## blain2

M.Musa said:


> Mig 35 wins hands down currently. Even after the block III of JF-17 is unveiled, I still think The Mig 35 will be better. But JF-17 has its own advantages....Anyway, lets see what BAF inducts to its inventory not in rumors or papers but rather on the ground.


Just my opinion. Bangladesh could very well be in situation very similar to Pakistan's if push came to shove with India (for any number of reasons). At that point, Mig-35 or any Russian hardware becomes problematic if India puts pressure on the Russians.

If the aircraft has a good AI radar, can integrate good BVR and WVR missiles, has the ability to carry out multi-role missions and provides an open architecture to integrate more capabilities in the future, then it is effective in the South Asian theater for at least the next 20 years. If you can add a sanctions-free supply through China, then the option is even better which leads me to believe that BAF may actually benefit more from the FC-1 than Mig-35. Also if the BD Aeronautical Center is to take on manufacturing etc., the future is with the Chinese. Thinking long term the ToT, in whatever limited capacity in the beginning, would be easier with the Chinese.

Chinese products have continually improved and while they may not have all the bells and whistles of the top-end American and European HW, currently China is at least putting the same amount of funding in its R&D as all of the major Euro-powers combined. This makes for a very interesting prognosis for Chinese products in the future.

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## PDF

When I said MIG 35 is better, I was stating it in the light of its capabilities. But, Yes, the procurement of an aircraft is not only dependent on the capabilities but on major other factors including state to state relations, availability of spares, maintenance etc... 
The best option for Bangladesh would be to go Chinese as you have stated. But, it is up to Bangladesh to decide what is their requirement. Buying over qualified products can also be disadvantageous for them.


blain2 said:


> Just my opinion. Bangladesh could very well be in situation very similar to Pakistan's if push came to shove with India (for any number of reasons). At that point, Mig-35 or any Russian hardware becomes problematic if India puts pressure on the Russians.
> 
> If the aircraft has a good AI radar, can integrate good BVR and WVR missiles, has the ability to carry out multi-role missions and provides an open architecture to integrate more capabilities in the future, then it is effective in the South Asian theater for at least the next 20 years. If you can add a sanctions-free supply through China, then the option is even better which leads me to believe that BAF may actually benefit more from the FC-1 than Mig-35. Also if the BD Aeronautical Center is to take on manufacturing etc., the future is with the Chinese. Thinking long term the ToT, in whatever limited capacity in the beginning, would be easier with the Chinese.
> 
> Chinese products have continually improved and while they may not have all the bells and whistles of the top-end American and European HW, currently China is at least putting the same amount of funding in its R&D as all of the major Euro-powers combined. This makes for a very interesting prognosis for Chinese products in the future.

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## UKBengali

blain2 said:


> Just my opinion. Bangladesh could very well be in situation very similar to Pakistan's if push came to shove with India (for any number of reasons). At that point, Mig-35 or any Russian hardware becomes problematic if India puts pressure on the Russians.
> 
> If the aircraft has a good AI radar, can integrate good BVR and WVR missiles, has the ability to carry out multi-role missions and provides an open architecture to integrate more capabilities in the future, then it is effective in the South Asian theater for at least the next 20 years. If you can add a sanctions-free supply through China, then the option is even better which leads me to believe that BAF may actually benefit more from the FC-1 than Mig-35. Also if the BD Aeronautical Center is to take on manufacturing etc., the future is with the Chinese. Thinking long term the ToT, in whatever limited capacity in the beginning, would be easier with the Chinese.
> 
> Chinese products have continually improved and while they may not have all the bells and whistles of the top-end American and European HW, currently China is at least putting the same amount of funding in its R&D as all of the major Euro-powers combined. This makes for a very interesting prognosis for Chinese products in the future.



Sorry JF-17 is the least capable 4th gen aircraft in production. BAF needs a heavier and far more advanced fighter like SU-30.
In the light of China's blatant support for Myanmar over Rohingya issue, Chinese supply must also be suspect.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Sorry JF-17 is the least capable 4th gen aircraft in production. BAF needs a heavier and far more advanced fighter like SU-30.
> In the light of China's blatant support for Myanmar over Rohingya issue, Chinese supply must also be suspect.




Unfortunately for us .... western option does seem the least risky option.

In war time I do not believe we can trust either the Russians nor the Chinese.

In the long run BAF should explore opportunities to partner with Turkey in their indeginious fighter program.

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## Bilal9

Just for fun.....

















In my opinion - when maintenance (Engine MTBF needs) considered, Gripen is a far better choice.

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## Bilal9

Gripen Engine - Volvo Reaktions Motor 12 (RM12), derived from GE F404 (specific improvements added per F414)

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## Bilal9

Please watch these two videos on the Gripen, very revealing as far as design/operational philosophy and efficiency.

Typically Swedish. And I mean that in a VERY positive sense.

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## Nabil365

Bilal9 said:


> Please watch these two videos on the Gripen, very revealing as far as design/operational philosophy and efficiency.
> 
> Typically Swedish. And I mean that in a VERY positive sense.


Anyway its not joining BAF anytime soon.


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## Avicenna

Nabil365 said:


> Anyway its not joining BAF anytime soon.



Why not though?

If Botswana can buy a dozen, why not Bangladesh?

There seriously has to be a broadening of thought when it comes to defense procurement.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Unfortunately for us .... western option does seem the least risky option.
> 
> In war time I do not believe we can trust either the Russians nor the Chinese.
> 
> In the long run BAF should explore opportunities to partner with Turkey in their indeginious fighter program.



BD has a very complex geopolitical environment.

Let us look at the 3 major realistic weapons suppliers and the pros and cons of each:

1. China :

Pros:Fantasticly affordable as the prices of weapons are low cost and the Chinese will supply on soft loan basis. Since China does not like India that much it could be relied upon to resupply BD in case of conflict with India. In short, BD can afford vast quantities of Chinese arms and resupply will not be an issue of war with India.

Cons: China cannot be relied upon to resupply in case of war with Myanmar as it has major economic interests in that country.

2. Russia:

Pros: Relatively affordable weapons with loans provided. Russia will not have an issue of resupply if BD is at war with Mynamar.

Cons: Although Russian weapons like fighters are cheap to buy, they require far more expensive maintenance than Western types and so the "life-cycle" cost is the same. BD's major threat is India and so Russia cannot be relied upon to not leak secrets or resupply in case of conflict with India.

3. France :

Pros: Fantastic weapons like Rafale fighters. France will resupply in case of conflict with Myanmar.

Cons: Very expensive upfront cost for weapons. Since India is a major buyer of French weapons, cannot be wholly trusted to resupply BD in case of conflict with India.

So you see, none of the realistic 3 major suppliers can be wholly trusted. Gripen and Eurofighter are not realistic as they are multi-national efforts and would need the clearance from many countries.

I say that BD buys fighters from Russua( SU-30SME), China( J-10b) and wait for Turkish TF-X towards the latter part of the 2020s. If BD military planners are smart, they will stock enough supplies that BD can utterly destroy the Myanmarese military and have enough ammunition left to deter Myanmar from trying to prolong any conflict.

Until countries like Turkey can produce the major systems that BD needs and BD itself can produce much more in-house, it will find itself in a predicament with weapons suppliers.



Avicenna said:


> Why not though?
> 
> If Botswana can buy a dozen, why not Bangladesh?
> 
> There seriously has to be a broadening of thought when it comes to defense procurement.



Are you aware that Gripen has US engine and will need US clearance to export to BD?
Gripen has parts from all over the Western world and cannot really be called a Swedish fighter.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> BD has a very complex geopolitical environment.
> 
> Let us look at the 3 major realistic weapons suppliers and the pros and cons of each:
> 
> 1. China :
> 
> Pros:Fantasticly affordable as the prices of weapons are low cost and the Chinese will supply on soft loan basis. Since China does not like India that much it could be relied upon to resupply BD in case of conflict with India. In short, BD can afford vast quantities of Chinese arms and resupply will not be an issue of war with India.
> 
> Cons: China cannot be relied upon to resupply in case of war with Myanmar as it has major economic interests in that country.
> 
> 2. Russia:
> 
> Pros: Relatively affordable weapons with loans provided. Russia will not have an issue of resupply if BD is at war with Mynamar.
> 
> Cons: Although Russian weapons like fighters are cheap to buy, they require far more expensive maintenance than Western types and so the "life-cycle" cost is the same. BD's major threat is India and so Russia cannot be relied upon to not leak secrets or resupply in case of conflict with India.
> 
> 3. France :
> 
> Pros: Fantastic weapons like Rafale fighters. France will resupply in case of conflict with Myanmar.
> 
> Cons: Very expensive upfront cost for weapons. Since India is a major buyer of French weapons, cannot be wholly trusted to resupply BD in case of conflict with India.
> 
> So you see, none of the realistic 3 major suppliers can be wholly trusted. Gripen and Eurofighter are not realistic as they are multi-national efforts and would need the clearance from many countries.
> 
> I say that BD buys fighters from Russua( SU-30SME), China( J-10b) and wait for Turkish TF-X towards the latter part of the 2020s. If BD military planners are smart, they will stock enough supplies that BD can utterly destroy the Myanmarese military and have enough ammunition left to deter Myanmar from trying to prolong any conflict.
> 
> Until countries like Turkey can produce the major systems that BD needs and BD itself can produce much more in-house, it will find itself in a predicament with weapons suppliers.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware that Gripen has US engine and will need US clearance to export to BD?
> Gripen has parts from all over the Western world and cannot really be called a Swedish fighter.


Go USA


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Go USA




USA will have too many conditions attached. They may even ask for a base of some kind for supply of fighters to BD.

Also USA is trying to use India against China and so cannot be trusted to supply BD in case of war with India


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> BD has a very complex geopolitical environment.
> 
> Let us look at the 3 major realistic weapons suppliers and the pros and cons of each:
> 
> 1. China :
> 
> Pros:Fantasticly affordable as the prices of weapons are low cost and the Chinese will supply on soft loan basis. Since China does not like India that much it could be relied upon to resupply BD in case of conflict with India. In short, BD can afford vast quantities of Chinese arms and resupply will not be an issue of war with India.
> 
> Cons: China cannot be relied upon to resupply in case of war with Myanmar as it has major economic interests in that country.
> 
> 2. Russia:
> 
> Pros: Relatively affordable weapons with loans provided. Russia will not have an issue of resupply if BD is at war with Mynamar.
> 
> Cons: Although Russian weapons like fighters are cheap to buy, they require far more expensive maintenance than Western types and so the "life-cycle" cost is the same. BD's major threat is India and so Russia cannot be relied upon to not leak secrets or resupply in case of conflict with India.
> 
> 3. France :
> 
> Pros: Fantastic weapons like Rafale fighters. France will resupply in case of conflict with Myanmar.
> 
> Cons: Very expensive upfront cost for weapons. Since India is a major buyer of French weapons, cannot be wholly trusted to resupply BD in case of conflict with India.
> 
> So you see, none of the realistic 3 major suppliers can be wholly trusted. Gripen and Eurofighter are not realistic as they are multi-national efforts and would need the clearance from many countries.
> 
> I say that BD buys fighters from Russua( SU-30SME), China( J-10b) and wait for Turkish TF-X towards the latter part of the 2020s. If BD military planners are smart, they will stock enough supplies that BD can utterly destroy the Myanmarese military and have enough ammunition left to deter Myanmar from trying to prolong any conflict.
> 
> Until countries like Turkey can produce the major systems that BD needs and BD itself can produce much more in-house, it will find itself in a predicament with weapons suppliers.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware that Gripen has US engine and will need US clearance to export to BD?
> Gripen has parts from all over the Western world and cannot really be called a Swedish fighter.



Lol yes I’m aware of the gripen’s engine etc etc.

The point I’m trying to make. Let’s use Malaysia as an example. In 2017 it has su-30mkm, f-18D, and had mig-29. In the 80’s it had some f-5 and a-4. What I am saying is because of it economic achievement it was able to become a market for more advanced western types. Now there is a competition to perhaps buy the Rafale or some other fancy western gear.

If Bangladesh truely is improving on the economic front, then perhaps it opens up non traditional sources of weapons. Money talks after all. 

Who is in charge of defense procurement anyways? Like who makes the decisions to buy so and so? 

Bangladesh is a responsible nation and is seen as such by the west. We have good relations with the US. I’m not saying buy a US platform. As we know there are all sorts of strings attached.

But why not diversify your sources. And most importantly. Increase your capabilities starting at the infrastructure level as to support a higher level of combat fighting capability. In my opinion, western systems confer an advantage over Russian and Chinese gear.


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> USA will have too many conditions attached. They may even ask for a base of some kind for supply of fighters to BD.
> 
> Also USA is trying to use India against China and so cannot be trusted to supply BD in case of war with India



In case of war it will be only the USA which we will be counting on to mediate and stop the war at the end of the day. So keeping in a good term with USA is a must despite it being an ally of India.
Most of the string/conditions are related to democracy and human rights and proliferation. I dont think we have any objection to those.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> In case of war it will be only the USA which we will be counting on to mediate and stop the war at the end of the day. So keeping in a good term with USA is a must despite it being an ally of India.
> Most of the string/conditions are related to democracy and human rights and proliferation. I dont think we have any objection to those.



Exactly. In fact, Bangladesh has often been praised by the US. I tend to think we are also favorable seen by European nations. And we contribute to the UN. The point being we are a responsible peaceful nation. Politically I see no to few barriers to obtain western gear. Money is of course the issue. But if the economy truley is improving, perhaps BAF should make a play for the Gripen and a western sourced aew/awacs.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Lol yes I’m aware of the gripen’s engine etc etc.
> 
> The point I’m trying to make. Let’s use Malaysia as an example. In 2017 it has su-30mkm, f-18D, and had mig-29. In the 80’s it had some f-5 and a-4. What I am saying is because of it economic achievement it was able to become a market for more advanced western types. Now there is a competition to perhaps buy the Rafale or some other fancy western gear.
> 
> If Bangladesh truely is improving on the economic front, then perhaps it opens up non traditional sources of weapons. Money talks after all.
> 
> Who is in charge of defense procurement anyways? Like who makes the decisions to buy so and so?
> 
> Bangladesh is a responsible nation and is seen as such by the west. We have good relations with the US. I’m not saying buy a US platform. As we know there are all sorts of strings attached.
> 
> But why not diversify your sources. And most importantly. Increase your capabilities starting at the infrastructure level as to support a higher level of combat fighting capability. In my opinion, western systems confer an advantage over Russian and Chinese gear.




Malyasia is not a good comparison as India does not have a problem with it getting either US or French gear.

US wants to use India as a bulwark against China and so may not be inclined to upset India by selling to BD. Remember how nuts that the Indians went when BD brought those two Ming-35Gs from China!

France really cares about the most amount of money it can get and would not want to risk losing 10s of billions of dollars of sales to India by selling 1-2 billion dollars of Rafale fighters to BD. Remmber that India paid 250 million dollars per Rafale and so BD would be looking at spending nearly 3 billion US dollars for just 12 Rafales. OK this comes with weapons and maintenance for 10 years but BD could get 30+ J-10s fighters for the same cost.

My point is that for deterrence against India, the Western suppliers are not much better than Russia, whereas China would gladly supply BD with as much weapons as it wants at low cost and soft loans to boot.

Chinese weapons may be a little worse than what can be provided by either EU or US now but remember that Chinese weapons technology is improving faster than that of the West. I am confident in 5-10 years that Chinese gear will be just as good as anything that can be provided by West.

So I say BD's best options now are Russia and China for cost and strategic reasons. Buy Su-30SME from Russia and you have a fighter way better than anything than Myanmar has and supplies in case of war with it. Procure J-10b from China and then you have a reliable fighter and crucially guaranteed supplies in case of conflict with India in the future.

Over the long run, BD should slowly build up it's own defence base but look mainly towards Turkey as that country is hugely improving it's military industry and will always stand by BD in case of war with either Myanmar or India.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Malyasia is not a good comparison as India does not have a problem with it getting either US or French gear.
> 
> US wants to use India as a bulwark against China and so may not be inclined to upset India by selling to BD. Remember how nuts that the Indians went when BD brought those two Ming-35Gs from China!
> 
> France really cares about the most amount of money it can get and would not want to risk losing 10s of billions of dollars of sales to India by selling 1-2 billion dollars of Rafale fighters to BD. Remmber that India paid 250 million dollars per Rafale and so BD would be looking at spending nearly 3 billion US dollars for just 12 Rafales. OK this comes with weapons and maintenance for 10 years but BD could get 30+ J-10s fighters for the same cost.
> 
> My point is that for deterrence against India, the Western suppliers are not much better than Russia, whereas China would gladly supply BD with as much weapons as it wants at low cost and soft loans to boot.
> 
> Chinese weapons may be a little worse than what can be provided by either EU or US now but remember that Chinese weapons technology is improving faster than that of the West. I am confident in 5-10 years that Chinese gear will be just as good as anything that can be provided by West.
> 
> So I say BD's best options now are Russia and China for cost and strategic reasons. Buy Su-30SME from Russia and you have a fighter way better than anything than Myanmar has and supplies in case of war with it. Procure J-10b from China and then you have a reliable fighter and crucially guaranteed supplies in case of conflict with India in the future.
> 
> Over the long run, BD should slowly build up it's own defence base but look mainly towards Turkey as that country is hugely improving it's military industry and will always stand by BD in case of war with either Myanmar or India.



You make several good points. 

However, what is to stop Russia from being influenced by Indian concerns?

I agree though, Turkey may be a significant component of the answer.

I hope Bangladesh starts buying Turkish weapons.

China, I am conflicted over. I hate the Chinese response to Rohingya situation. But they have THEIR interests.

Vis a vis Myanmar, I can't see Chinese sourced wares as dependable.

Perhaps a split of Chinese, Russian, Turkish, and European options? I dunno....

Money and political realities as well as the vision of the BD government will be the determinants as to what direction BAF goes.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> BD has a very complex geopolitical environment.
> 
> Let us look at the 3 major realistic weapons suppliers and the pros and cons of each:
> 
> 1. China :
> 
> Pros:Fantasticly affordable as the prices of weapons are low cost and the Chinese will supply on soft loan basis. Since China does not like India that much it could be relied upon to resupply BD in case of conflict with India. In short, BD can afford vast quantities of Chinese arms and resupply will not be an issue.
> 
> Cons: China cannot be relied upon to resupply in case of war with Myanmar as it has major economic interests in that country.
> 
> 2. Russia:
> 
> Pros: Relatively affordable weapons with loans provided. Russia will not have an issue of resupply if BD is at war with Mynamar.
> 
> Cons: Although Russian weapons like fighters are cheap to buy, they require far more expensive maintenance than Western types and so the "life-cycle" cost is the same. BD's major threat is India and so Russia cannot be relied upon to not leak secrets or resupply in case of conflict with India.
> 
> 3. France :
> 
> Pros: Fantastic weapons like Rafale fighters. France will resupply in case of conflict with Myanmar.
> 
> Cons: Very expensive upfront cost for weapons. Since India is a major buyer of French weapons, cannot be wholly trusted to resupply BD in case of conflict with India.
> 
> So you see, none of the realistic 3 major suppliers can be wholly trusted. Gripen and Eurofighter are not realistic as they are multi-national efforts and would need the clearance from many countries.
> 
> I say that BD buys fighters from Russua( SU-30SME), China( J-10b) and wait for Turkish TF-X towards the latter part of the 2020s, If BD military planners are smart, they will stock enough supplies that BD can utterly destroy the Myanmarese military and have enough ammunition left to deter Myanmar from trying to prolong any conflict.
> 
> Until countries like Turkey can produce the major systems that BD needs and BD itself can produce much more in-house, it will find itself in a predicament with weapons suppliers.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware that Gripen has US engine and will need US clearance to export to BD?
> Gripe has parts from all over the Western world and cannot really be called a Swedish fighter.



Thank you. I am aware of the scenario. BD should explore partnering opportunities in the Turkish fighter programme for BAF. There are no other programme that we can participate in such as the Korean or the Indonesian one. JF17 takes us back to reliance to china/Russia so not feasible.

BD should carry on working with the Chinese in developing our defense sector. But we need to plan and develop on the basis that BD is friendless.

BAF immediate needs I believe probably have be meet via the Chinese.

We need them also to deploy an effective BN and BA.

But I would urge diversification and indeginisation. Approach turkey for BAF and missile tech, approach Iran to understand strategy of coping with enemies at all side. 

On diplomatic side engage all and raise national profile. GOB fooled itself and allowed situation to develop thus. It's time to pick ourselves up and be ready to take the fight to the enemy.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Thank you. I am aware of the scenario. BD should explore partnering opportunities in the Turkish fighter programme for BAF. There are no other programme that we can participate in such as the Korean or the Indonesian one. JF17 takes us back to reliance to china/Russia so not feasible.
> 
> BD should carry on working with the Chinese in developing our defense sector. But we need to plan and develop on the basis that BD is friendless.
> 
> BAF immediate needs I believe probably have be meet via the Chinese.
> 
> We need them also to deploy an effective BN and BA.
> 
> But I would urge diversification and indeginisation. Approach turkey for BAF and missile tech, approach Iran to understand strategy of coping with enemies at all side.
> 
> On diplomatic side engage all and raise national profile. GOB fooled itself and allowed situation to develop thus. It's time to pick ourselves up and be ready to take the fight to the enemy.



BD has very limited resources. Not sure how much development of the defence sector can happen if the primary export is RMG. Lets be realistic here.

You are correct in that Bangladesh is friendless. Lets start there and rectify that situation. 

Also, lets move away from India. Also lets start to diversify the source of military hardware. 

Also lets continue to develop infrastructure and the economy.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> BD has very limited resources. Not sure how much development of the defence sector can happen if the primary export is RMG. Lets be realistic here.
> 
> You are correct in that Bangladesh is friendless. Lets start there and rectify that situation.
> 
> Also, lets move away from India. Also lets start to diversify the source of military hardware.
> 
> Also lets continue to develop infrastructure and the economy.




Beyond BAL who cares about India. BD forces must do what is necessary and remove these traitors.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Beyond BAL who cares about India. BD forces must do what is necessary and remove these traitors.



Totally agreed.
India has absolutely nothing to offer BD
and so relations must be downgraded to bare minimum.

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## bd_4_ever

Good discussion up here. I would personally think China and Russia are the most feasible sources as of now.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> BD has very limited resources. Not sure how much development of the defence sector can happen if the primary export is RMG. Lets be realistic here.



If we had started thirty years ago, starting with making small arms, tank parts, mortars and ammunition expendables, we would not have had to buy those small items (even grenades) from foreign companies. The problem was we never had visionary leaders, only thieves who were interested solely to line their own pockets, all the way from top to bottom leaders.

But start somewhere we *must*.

The neighbor country's aircraft industry was started by the Americans in WWII (HAL was a repair station for C-124's and Dakotas set up by the USAAF). And it has made that country self-sufficient. They could've had spectacular fighter aircraft by now, if it wasn't for the various corrupt politicians rooting for foreign products like Hawks and Rafales.

Even private companies like Tata and Mahindra have started making small riveted aviation items for the Boeing and Airbuses of the world (a passenger door here, a maintenance panel there). Same with Indonesia. When Dr. Habibie set PT Dirgantara (IPTN) up in Indonesia (JV with Casa Spain) in the late sixties, they did not have any homegrown technical expertise to make even motorcycles. But he had the vision that Indonesia as a country with far-flung locations needed an aircraft industry. So they simply set up one. Products include,

CN-235 (shorter predecessor to our C-295s)






New utility airplane N-219 (flew last month) - there is absolutely no reason we cannot make parts (and eventually the complete aircraft) for something like this. It is very doable with licensing at Bangabanhu Aeronautical Center.













Granted we aren't as resource-rich as those large countries, but we must start things, even if on a smaller scale. I am glad to report Naval build-wise, this is already happening in Bangladesh.

In the early 1900's, the US did not even have an aviation industry, they relied on copied European airplanes to get around. Now look where they are.



> You are correct in that Bangladesh is friendless. Lets start there and rectify that situation.



Our Diplomacy is weak and we don't leverage our friends in the West and negotiate enough. *That is where rectification can start, active lobbying at Washington and Brussels*.



> Also, lets move away from India.



Correct. Bhartis will at best want us to be weak/subservient and at worst want us to be a chronic third-world hellhole, dependent on them for everything. It is clear in their actions apparent from putting double barriers on our border with them and then, more recently, Rohingya episode. President Zia started this with our look East policy preferring relations with ASEAN in preference to that of India some two decades ago. This is truer than ever.



> Also lets start to diversify the source of military hardware.



Absolutely. Crying need of the day. Maybe Turkey.



> Also lets continue to develop infrastructure and the economy.



That is proceeding but we need to make the wheels turn much faster. Govt. policy needs to change for FDI as well.

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> If we had started thirty years ago, starting with small arms, tank parts, mortars and ammunition expendables, we would not have had to buy these items (even grenades) from foreign companies. The problem was we never had visionary leaders, only thieves who were interested solely to line their own pockets, all the way from top to bottom leaders.
> 
> But start somewhere we *must*.
> 
> The neighbor country's aircraft industry was started by the Americans (HAL was a repair station for C-124's and Dakotas set up by the USAAF). And it has made that country self-sufficient. They could've had spectacular fighter aircraft by now, if it wasn't for the various corrupt politicians rooting for foreign products like Hawks and Rafales.
> 
> Even private companies like Tata and Mahindra have started making small riveted aviation items for the Boeing and Airbuses of the world (a passenger door here, a maintenance panel there). Same with Indonesia. When Dr. Habibie set PT Dirgantara (IPTN) up in Indonesia (JV with Casa Spain) in the late sixties, they did not have any homegrown technical expertise to make even motorcycles. But he had the vision that Indonesia as a country with far-flung locations needed an aircraft industry. So they simply set up one. Products include,
> 
> CN-235 (shorter predecessor to our C-295s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New utility airplane N-219 (flew last month) - there is absolutely no reason we cannot make parts (and eventually the complete aircraft) for something like this. It is very doable with licensing at Bangabanhu Aeronautical Center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Granted we aren't as resource-rich as those large countries, but we must start things, even if on a smaller scale. I am glad to report Naval build-wise, this is already happening in Bangladesh.
> 
> In the early 1900's, the US did not even have an aviation industry, they relied on copied European airplanes to get around. Now look where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> Our Diplomacy is weak and we don't leverage our friends in the West and negotiate enough. That is where rectification can start, active lobbying at Washington and Brussels.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. Bhartis will at best want us to be weak/subservient and at worst want us to be a third world hellhole for good, dependent on them. It is clear in their actions (putting double barriers on their border and then more recently Rohingya episode. President Zia started this with our look East policy some two decades ago. But more true than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. Crying need of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> That is proceeding but we need to make the wheels turn much faster. Govt. policy needs to change for FDI as well.



In all honesty. Buy the weapons to maintain a credible ability to defend national interests or at the very least deter neighbors from hostile acts.

More important than building some sort of indigenous defence industry is the continued improvement of healthcare, education, infrastructure. You cant compare a nascent American aviation industry relying on European sources with Bangladesh. The US at that time and Bangladesh in the present are oceans apart in circumstance and situation. 

At the very least, I hope Bangladesh gives the attack helicopter contract to Turkey. Perhaps also buy some Turkish UAVs and trainers. 

At least attempt to open a discussion to buy the Gripen. Who makes that call in the government? The Defence Minister?

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## Banglar Bir

Bilal9 said:


> *The problem was we never had visionary leaders, only thieves who were interested solely to line their own pockets, all the way from top to bottom leaders.*


An brilliant and true reflection of actual reality.Many thanks.

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## Nike

Bilal9 said:


> If we had started thirty years ago, starting with small arms, tank parts, mortars and ammunition expendables, we would not have had to buy these items (even grenades) from foreign companies. The problem was we never had visionary leaders, only thieves who were interested solely to line their own pockets, all the way from top to bottom leaders.
> 
> But start somewhere we *must*.
> 
> The neighbor country's aircraft industry was started by the Americans (HAL was a repair station for C-124's and Dakotas set up by the USAAF). And it has made that country self-sufficient. They could've had spectacular fighter aircraft by now, if it wasn't for the various corrupt politicians rooting for foreign products like Hawks and Rafales.
> 
> Even private companies like Tata and Mahindra have started making small riveted aviation items for the Boeing and Airbuses of the world (a passenger door here, a maintenance panel there). Same with Indonesia. When Dr. Habibie set PT Dirgantara (IPTN) up in Indonesia (JV with Casa Spain) in the late sixties, they did not have any homegrown technical expertise to make even motorcycles. But he had the vision that Indonesia as a country with far-flung locations needed an aircraft industry. So they simply set up one. Products include,
> 
> CN-235 (shorter predecessor to our C-295s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New utility airplane N-219 (flew last month) - there is absolutely no reason we cannot make parts (and eventually the complete aircraft) for something like this. It is very doable with licensing at Bangabanhu Aeronautical Center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Granted we aren't as resource-rich as those large countries, but we must start things, even if on a smaller scale. I am glad to report Naval build-wise, this is already happening in Bangladesh.
> 
> In the early 1900's, the US did not even have an aviation industry, they relied on copied European airplanes to get around. Now look where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> Our Diplomacy is weak and we don't leverage our friends in the West and negotiate enough. That is where rectification can start, active lobbying at Washington and Brussels.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. Bhartis will at best want us to be weak/subservient and at worst want us to be a third world hellhole for good, dependent on them. It is clear in their actions (putting double barriers on their border and then more recently Rohingya episode. President Zia started this with our look East policy some two decades ago. But more true than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. Crying need of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> That is proceeding but we need to make the wheels turn much faster. Govt. policy needs to change for FDI as well.



You put too much credit on B J Habibie. 
The father of Indonesian aircraft industry is not BJ Habibie, but Nurtanio pringgoadikusumo and Wiweko Soepono. They create and laid foundation for our aircraft industry using what is left from Dutch and Japanese workshop in Bandung Andir military airfield. 

At first, during war of independence they designing and building military glider for para operation purpose and then move on to building their own aircraft for demonstration and training purpose











In 50' and 60' decades they had designing and flying with this aircrafts. The development programme for Aircraft industry in Indonesia got a major halt during Economic and political crisis in Late 60s decade. 








Sport type Aircraft designed for training purpose and cross country travelling. 





This is a light attack aircraft, Nu 200 Si Kumbang. designed by Nurtanio for ground attack roles as optimized for their rugged design and inexpensive operational cost. 


















In early 60's Nurtanio trying to license producing piper cub and Pzl 104 training craft but economical and political instability came to halt his aims. 





In late 70s is the time when Habibie starting to lead the Nurtanio Aircraft industry (1978), in which IPTN actually still alive and kicking with their co project with Aviocar CASA industry to developt CN212 in 1971 and starting to license producing them in 1976 two years before Habibie lead the Nurtanio Aircraft industry.

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
BAF Chief বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান এয়ার চীফ মার্শাল আবু এসরার, বিবিপি, এনডিসি, এসিএসসি সস্ত্রীক তিনজন সফরসঙ্গীসহ ০৫ দিনের এক সরকারী সফরে আজ রবিবার (১২-১১-২০১৭) left for Turkey on 12 Nov,2017 along with his entourage তুরস্কের উদ্দেশ্যে ঢাকা ত্যাগ করেন।

সফরকালে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান তুরস্কের প্রতিরক্ষা সচিব ইসমাইল দেমির, সশস্ত্র বাহিনীর প্রধান হুলুসি আকার ও বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান হাসান সহ উর্ধ্বতন সামরিক ও বেসামরিক কর্মকর্তাগণের সাথে পারস্পরিক স¦ার্থ সংশ্লিষ্ট বিষয়ে মতবিনিময় এবং পেশাগত বিষয়ে আলোচনা করবেন।

এছাড়াও তিনি ঐদেশের বিভিন্ন সামরিক ও বেসামরিক স্থাপনা পরিদর্শন করবেন। বিমান বাহিনী প্রধানের এই সফর দুই দেশের সশস্ত্র বাহিনীর মধ্যে পারস্পরিক সম্পর্ক উন্নয়ন এবং বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর for enhancing the development of BAF উন্নয়নে বিভিন্ন পদক্ষেপ গ্রহণে গুরুত্বপূর্ণ ভূমিকা পালন করবে বলে আশা করা যায়।*
Link- http://www.ispr.gov.bd/%e0%a6%ac%e0%a6%bf%e0%a6%ae%e0%a6%b…/

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## Allah Akbar

Banglar Bir said:


> *BDMilitary
> New post (Bangladesh Air Force wants to purchase Turkish-built aircraft) has been published on Bangladesh Military Forces - BDMilitary.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force wants to purchase Turkish-built aircraft
> *The Bangladesh Air Force displayed a keen interest in purchasing Turkish built military aircraft including Hürkuş primary training aircraft, T-129 ATACK attack…*
> BDMILITARY.COM


Biman ki Banglalink dore paichos 

BD airforce should go for atleast 2 squadron JF17 block 2 for backup and ground support or naval wings. The way the russians are playing with bd , i hope there will be no option left but the qaher 313 stealth fighter and will dogfight with toyota allion at the street

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## masud



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## mb444

warrantofficer said:


> Biman ki Banglalink dore paichos
> 
> BD airforce should go for atleast 2 squadron JF17 block 2 for backup and ground support or naval wings. The way the russians are playing with bd , i hope there will be no option left but the qaher 313 stealth fighter and will dogfight with toyota allion at the street




What???

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## Bilal9

warrantofficer said:


> Biman ki Banglalink dore paichos
> 
> BD airforce should go for atleast 2 squadron JF17 block 2 for backup and ground support or naval wings. The way the russians are playing with bd , i hope there will be no option left but the qaher 313 stealth fighter and will dogfight with toyota allion at the street



Bhai we should not do 'Tui Tokari' towards other forum members - I hope I am mistaken on this.


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## mehedi44

We are still in negotiation while MM.......continues to ramp up theit arsenal

Myanmar Airforce JF-17

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

mehedi44 said:


> We are still in negotiation while MM.......continues to ramp up theit arsenal
> 
> Myanmar Airforce JF-17



well, they received the JF-17 while we were thinking and thinking and thinking..... still thinking....

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## TopCat

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, they received the JF-17 while we were thinking and thinking and thinking..... still thinking....


we survived from jf-17

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## mb444

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, they received the JF-17 while we were thinking and thinking and thinking..... still thinking....



BAF is very slow off the mark..... they should get on with it. Atleast BD needs to accelerate missile production and deployment.


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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> we survived from jf-17



Exactly.... and I don't think there is any imminent attack from Myanmar anytime soon...

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## dy1022

J10B/C for BAF?

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## Flynn Swagmire

dy1022 said:


> J10B/C for BAF?


How did you identified?


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## dy1022

Cannon Fodder said:


> How did you identified?




My little suggestion for BAF! Besides J20 and J31, J10B/C= the best that China could offer to BAF with 1Billion credit/Soft loan.

But I don't know what's going on right now. @UKBengali 
























J31


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## Allah Akbar

Its a popular commercial dialogue, not to mean anyone . i thought you guys know that commercial. the camo of that trainer was look a like banglalink mark


Bilal9 said:


> Bhai we should not do 'Tui Tokari' towards other forum members - I hope I am mistaken on this.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> Exactly.... and I don't think there is any imminent attack from Myanmar anytime soon...


let's dismantle the air force then?......



mb444 said:


> BAF is very slow off the mark..... they should get on with it. Atleast BD needs to accelerate missile production and deployment.


well, inaction can hardly be justified by the term "slow".....
missile production "acceleration" is one thing, and getting aircraft on an emergency basis is another.....
I just am not in favour of some influential media in Bangladesh who say that Bangladesh doesn't need a military to scare Myanmar, rather Bangladesh should beg to the Western powers to scare Myanmar.....

playing others' game will never get us anywhere, to be honest...... their game IS wasting time.....

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## UKBengali

dy1022 said:


> My little suggestion for BAF! Besides J20 and J31, J10B/C= the best that China could offer to BAF with 1Billion credit/Soft loan.
> 
> But I don't know what's going on right now. @UKBengali
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J31



Nor do I.

The negotiations with Russia for the SU-30SMEs seemed to have hit a sticking point and so this may be the reason of the delay in purchase of J-10B. However I cannot see a reason why BD cannot negotiate with both Russia and China for aircraft at the same time. The chance of getting 16 J-10b, 1 Y-20, 1 KJ-200 and 7 K-8Ws for only 1 billion US dollar and with soft loans is too good an opportunity to miss out on.

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## Banglar Bir

New Defense BD Channel
*Published on Nov 17, 2017
Bangladesh Air Force’s Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center (BAC) is the country’s first of its kind. This is a Bangladesh Ministry of Defense-owned aerospace defense security and advanced technology venture mainly focusing on avionics, aviation, and high-tech electronics. BAC poised to build modern fighter jets in Bangladesh within next decade. 

BAC’s work domain includes aircraft design, development & manufacturing, and producing avionics systems for country’s armed forces. 

Manufacture and maintenance of radar, unmanned aerial vehicle and other defense systems for Bangladesh Army & Bangladesh Navy. It also performs maintenance and overhauling of the civil-military airplanes. There are strict restriction of exporting any product, technology or services to any foreign party. 

Bangladesh Air Force is operating and managing all the activities of this aviation industry. BAC is going to make operational an F-7 overhaul plant for BAF’s F-BG+F-7BGI fleet upgradation. Unmanned aerial vehicles will be built in BAC soon. An advanced 4.5th generation fighter jet development/manufacturing program has been planned to be done in BAC. 

Other allied aviation products like fighter jet spares, civil airplane’s parts, aerial munitions, aviation electronics, ground based radar systems etc. also are the products of BAC.*


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## Nabil365

Banglar Bir said:


> New Defense BD Channel
> *Published on Nov 17, 2017
> Bangladesh Air Force’s Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center (BAC) is the country’s first of its kind. This is a Bangladesh Ministry of Defense-owned aerospace defense security and advanced technology venture mainly focusing on avionics, aviation, and high-tech electronics. BAC poised to build modern fighter jets in Bangladesh within next decade.
> 
> BAC’s work domain includes aircraft design, development & manufacturing, and producing avionics systems for country’s armed forces.
> 
> Manufacture and maintenance of radar, unmanned aerial vehicle and other defense systems for Bangladesh Army & Bangladesh Navy. It also performs maintenance and overhauling of the civil-military airplanes. There are strict restriction of exporting any product, technology or services to any foreign party.
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force is operating and managing all the activities of this aviation industry. BAC is going to make operational an F-7 overhaul plant for BAF’s F-BG+F-7BGI fleet upgradation. Unmanned aerial vehicles will be built in BAC soon. An advanced 4.5th generation fighter jet development/manufacturing program has been planned to be done in BAC.
> 
> Other allied aviation products like fighter jet spares, civil airplane’s parts, aerial munitions, aviation electronics, ground based radar systems etc. also are the products of BAC.*


So it is confirmed that mig35 is coming?Cause we got tot offered for that.


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## Flynn Swagmire

fuk! We should go for gripen e. Efficient and reliable...

MiGs and Sukhois does have superb aerodynamics and rugged constructions. But, I think Russian electronics are not as good as their Western counterparts!

In this age, electronics matters most. Our think tanks should know that...

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## Nabil365

Mon


Cannon Fodder said:


> fuk! We should go for gripen e. Efficient and reliable...
> 
> MiGs and Sukhois does have superb aerodynamics and rugged constructions. But, I think Russian electronics are not as good as their Western counterparts!
> 
> In this age, electronics matters most. Our think tanks should know that...


Money talks.

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## UKBengali

Cannon Fodder said:


> fuk! We should go for gripen e. Efficient and reliable...
> 
> MiGs and Sukhois does have superb aerodynamics and rugged constructions. But, I think Russian electronics are not as good as their Western counterparts!
> 
> In this age, electronics matters most. Our think tanks should know that...



BD should go for something like the Malaysian SU-30MKM. It has a mixture of Russian, French and S African
electronics.

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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> BD should go for something like the Malaysian SU-30MKM. It has a mixture of Russian, French and S African
> electronics.


Sorry, we should try to do business with them, who are with our interest, not against.

Thats how you build strong friendship...


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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> BD should go for something like the Malaysian SU-30MKM. It has a mixture of Russian, French and S African
> electronics.


IF Russia is willing to give us assembly line, then this is very much doable. A MIG 35 with mix capability to use both western and Russian armaments and electronics will be game changer for BD. 




Cannon Fodder said:


> Sorry, we should try to do business with them, who are with our interest, not against.
> 
> Thats how you build strong friendship...


There is no permanent friend or foe when it comes to geo politics. France has always been a good international arms supplier ,they supplied us Fuga Majister & A2A missiles previously. If approached I don't see any reason for them not to sell. And it will be good for BD.

South Africa has some decent and cheap options for BD. If played the right card we can get TOT and Joint Production from them cheaply compared to other countries.

And these two were never against us. I don't see why we shouldn't start formal cooperation with them. In the long run our allies lies within the MENA block. We shall tread our cards very carefully.

China isn't any friend of BD. We do business and that's it. Same goes for Russia. Always keep in mind, Countries like China & Russia is no ones friend. They won't hesitate to abandon you just like now.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Khan saheb said:


> There is no permanent friend or foe when it comes to geo politics. France has always been a good international arms supplier ,they supplied us Fuga Majister & A2A missiles previously. If approached I don't see any reason for them not to sell. And it will be good for BD.
> 
> South Africa has some decent and cheap options for BD. If played the right card we can get TOT and Joint Production from them cheaply compared to other countries.
> 
> And these two were never against us. I don't see why we shouldn't start formal cooperation with them. In the long run our allies lies within the MENA block. We shall tread our cards very carefully.
> 
> China isn't any friend of BD. We do business and that's it. Same goes for Russia. Always keep in mind, Countries like China & Russia is no ones friend. They won't hesitate to abandon you just like now.


Well, politically and diplomatically friendship means interest. If you dont offer any benefit other party will abandon you...

I do agree with your above comment...


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## Banglar Bir

*Gaining an advantage in the sky*
Raihan Al-Beruni
Published at 04:39 PM November 20, 2017
Last updated at 10:56 PM November 20, 2017




Russian MiG fighters have been in the market for decades BIGSTOCK
*Russian MiG fighter jets have been in the market for many decades, and are known as among the cheapest options for any air force.
A historical view of MiG*
The new MiG-35 and its legacy MiG-29 have their baggage, and few success stories in any air warfare around the world from the Korean War to the Gulf War.

*It was the Dassault Mirage jet which saved the Indian Air Force in the Kargil conflict, not the MiG. *Although IAF has an extensive inventory of MiGs, the Kargil success was one of the driving factors for IAF to select Dassault Rafale.
*The modern 4.5 generation fighter*
A modern fighter jet must offer technological and informational advantages over the enemy aircraft to be able to defend the skies successfully. This critical factor has to lead the development of an intermediate 4.5 generation fighter jet before bringing the fifth-generation fighter jet.

A 4.5 generation fighter jet must have an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar and reduced radar cross (RCS). If the MiG is compared with its counterparts like Gripen NG or F/A-18E/F, then obviously* the MiGs lack an advanced radar and reduced RCS.*

Almost all Russian fighter jets are manufactured with speed and agility in mind rather than avionics, radar, and RCS, including the recently developed Sukhoi-57.
*A comparison with its European counterpart*
The Zhuk-ME radar of MiG-35 is an X band radar manufactured by the Phazotron NIIR Corporation. According to an independent military think tank, Zhuk radar has +- 70 degree oblique view, n*ot a Wide Field of Regard.*

The radar uses multiple four channel transceiver modules generating an output of 5 watts per channel, installed on a liquid-cooled base plate to dissipate the generated heat. If a specific transceiver is overheated, *it will be switched off by the radar computer until it cools down.*

The Raven AESA radar of *Gripen NG* is an X band Active Electronically Scan Array (AESA) radar manufactured by Leonardo airborne and space systems. According to the manufacturer’s specification, the Raven radar provides plus/minus 100 degree wide field of regard.

The radar makes use of AESA alert-confirm techniques to confirm targets for the first detection. This combined with optimised AESA waveforms results in increased track initiation ranges, while simultaneously maintaining situational awareness.

This is combined with the full capabilities of a detection, tracking, and prosecution system to meet the needs of emerging threats.

The APG-79 radar of F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is also an AESA radar. According to manufacturer’s specifications, the APG-79 radar of the Super Hornet is optimised situational awareness and provides superior air-to-air and air-to-surface capability.

The agile beam enables the multimode radar to interleave in near-real time, so that pilot and crew can use both modes simultaneously. The manufacturer claims that the APG-79 AESA radar is built on solid-state transmit and receive modules to virtually eliminate any mechanical breakdown.

In short, if I translate this technical jargon into non-technical language, then the Zhuk-ME radar of MiG-35 can be compared with a visually impaired person, the APG-79 radar of Super Hornet with a person with excellent vision, and the Raven radar of Gripen to that of a person with perfect vision.
*The MiG-35 RCS*
The primary measure of stealth aircraft is the low observability (LO), also known as the radar cross section (RCS) of the target, whether this is an aircraft, missiles, or ships.
*How does it work?*
The radar pulse goes out from the transmitter, hits the target, and bounces back.

The radar receiver measures the energy in the return signal in decibel (dB) units, but that is a hard way for normal people to visualise the size of a target. So, you can convert the decibel to square metres to get the picture. So, for an aircraft with an RCS of 5 dB, it would be 3.16 square metres.

The RCS of an aircraft depends on its characteristics, the orientation of the target to the radar source. Many aircrafts will have a smaller frontal RCS, but bigger rear and side RCS.

Also, some fighter jets have their largest RCS from the side and the rear, due to the exhaust nozzles. Moreover, RCS depends on the wavelength of the radar signal and how far away the target is. The lower the RCS value, the less possible that the conventional radar will detect the aircraft from a distance.

*According to military think tank mil-embedded.com, the Russian 4++ generation MiG-35 has an RCS of 15 square metres and 4.5 generation Su-35 has an RCS of 3 square metres.*

The 4.5 generation F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighter jet has an RCS of 1 square metre. The next generation Gripen incorporated stealth designs into its basic structure without compromising performance. Hence, the Gripen ended up with such a low RCS of only 0.1 square metres.

If BAF procures MiGs again, Bangladesh will end up spending hard-earned billions to achieve no technological and strategic advantage over any regional air force

The Gripen is a small fighter jet with low RCS, but computer modelling was used to optimise areas such as the curves of the aircraft and the engine intakes along with their inlet tubes to deflect radar waves. Special Radar Absorbing Materials (RAM) were also used in critical areas enabling the Gripen to lower its RCS even further and giving it an excellent advantage against radar.

To understand RCS in plain English, an average man has an RCS of about 1 square metre and a bird has an RCS of about 0.1 square metres.The challenge of a surface-to-air missile or air-to-air missile to shoot down a Gripen NG with RCS of about 0.1 square metres is like shooting down a bird flying at the speed of sound. For MiG-35 with an RCS of about 15 square metres, it is like shooting down a bus flying at the speed of sound.
*The sales tactics
As of now, no details are available publicly about ToT from either Rosoboronexport or BAF. 
I doubt that Rosoboronexport is genuinely offering transfer of any vital technology to Bangladesh. 
It is the standard sales tactics worked in the past 50 years towards India, but China is an exception.*

China received large-scale assistance from the Soviet Union during The Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance, and Mutual Assistance.

Due to massive industrialisation, China is able to reproduce Soviet-made weapons domestically.

The Russian sales tactics led to the Indian Air Force dearly having no spare parts for its Sukhoi fleet, and an abundance of fighter jets are resting under the Indian hanger.
*The Bangladeshi point of view
As for Bangladeshi MRCA deals, Russia will behave the same way they did with India and Iran. 
Once the sales are over, Russia will withdraw the support and supplies of spare parts. Bangladesh’s previous MiG deal was a dud, and until recently, those MiGs were stored under the hanger.*

*If BAF procures MiGs again, Bangladesh will end up spending hard-earned billions to achieve no technological and strategic advantage over any regional air force.*

*The BAF should ask one question: Are they offering free target drones as MiG-35 to Myanmar Air Force?*
_Raihan Al-Beruni is a contractor and analyst for a global defense and security supplier based in Australia._
http://www.dhakatribune.com/uncategorized/2017/11/20/gaining-advantage-sky/

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## TopCat

Mig-35 should be out of question.
If they need genuine TOT then they should start from trainer aircraft. Then gradually go up and participate in joint development with Korea or Turkey.
Russia will not under any circumstances let us master the skill of aircraft building. Its just a ploy. We will become a crippled air force.

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## Banglar Bir




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## Nabil365

TopCat said:


> Mig-35 should be out of question.
> If they need genuine TOT then they should start from trainer aircraft. Then gradually go up and participate in joint development with Korea or Turkey.
> Russia will not under any circumstances let us master the skill of aircraft building. Its just a ploy. We will become a crippled air force.


This might become a tejas 2.0.
It takes time to develop all this,can’t just jump around.


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## mehedi44

_*So Brazil is recieving complete TOT gor 36 gripen............also with a local assembly of /production of 12 aircraft out of 36....so why can't we go for such deal.....even limited scale assembly facility would be great for our af...the hefty price tag is an issue but in the long term it would be a good value for money...and we should never compromise on our defense... if we can not induct in nimbers we can induct at a rate of 4 aircraft per year...we can start with C/D variant...on later stage we can go for newer/ advanced variants......

A fourth test aircraft is being built for Brazil, one of 28 Gripen NG single-seaters for the nation, which is also to acquire eight two-seaters. Embraer and Saab are creating production and test facilities in Brazil,*_
which is seen as ultimately having a requirement for around 100 aircraft. Saab has also proposed the Gripen for local production in India.

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## mehedi44

I BLV unmanned platforms will be the key to military supremacy in future....US..CHINA are pondering over swarming tactics in air war....they r investing more and more in R& D of this pltform....BD vdefense strategist should seriously ponder over investing in this platform...i dont think it would require a huge amount of upfront investment....as the traditional fighter aircraft technlogy demands.....to start with, we can initiate production of medium/long range unarmed surveillance drone with E/O pods......Afterwards we can aim for tot of high tech drones and its components like E/O pods, radars, sensors, aviation suit, GPS system...it is my understanding that these tech are not so highly sensitive like the traditional air platforms..hence could be obtained easily...if we start now, 10/15 years later we might be able to bbuild advanced armed drones capable of carrying higher payload to take the place of asw helicpters/mpa's .............................................................................................. the thought of our Padma class opvs carrying such air platforms give me................... !!!!!!!!! even we might bulid an aircraft carrier for those drone...( joking....but i beieve we will eventually watch it happening in the next decade..).....even we might build long range armed drone submarines/ underwater drones...and each of opvs/ fac boats would carry 1/2 of them.....they would give a hell of a bad dream to our opponents































http://www.noufors.com/images/Drones/Military Drones/

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## mehedi44

few more


















































* DARPA goes deep: New Hydra project to see underwater drones deploying drones *
Published time: 6 Sep, 2013 11:19 Edited time: 10 Sep, 2013 13:50





DARPA 'Hydra' (Image from darpa.mil)
The sky is no longer the limit for US drone warfare, with secret military research agency DARPA considering a conquest of the seven seas with an underwater drone carrier.
America’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) recently held a presentation of its new Hydra unmanned underwater drone carrier project at John's Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. ‘Proposer’s Day’ was set to beef up interest from defense contractors.

_“The Hydra program will develop and demonstrate an unmanned undersea system, providing a novel delivery mechanism for insertion of unmanned air and underwater vehicles into operational environments,”_ says the Hydra Proposers' Day website.

In order to tout military contractors, DARPA’s Tactical Technology Office (TTO) envisages that their Hydra unmanned submarine carrier would use “modular payloads within a standardized enclosure to enable scalable, cost-effective deployment of rapid response assets.”

Hydra network is expected to be capable of deploying both the unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) and ‘conventional’ unmanned aircraft (UAVs), notably all of that remaining submerged. Also DARPA engineers consider developing for the submersible a special capsule for stealth underwater transportation of troops.

_“The rising number of ungoverned states, piracy, and proliferation of sophisticated defenses severely stretches current resources and impacts the nation’s ability to conduct special operations and contingency missions,”_ DARPA’s proposal paper maintains.

In broader terms, the Hydra project implies building an underwater drone fleet to ensure surveillance, logistics and offensive capabilities at any given time globally, throughout the world’s oceans, including shallow waters and probably any river deltas or systems.

_“The climate of budget austerity runs up against an uncertain security environment,"_ said Hydra program manager Scott Littlefield in a media release. _"An unmanned technology infrastructure staged below the ocean’s surface could relieve some of that resource strain and expand military capabilities in this increasingly challenging space.”_

DARPA’s gadget gurus believe they’ll have a functional demo of an underwater Hydra drone network by 2018, in case they find sufficient funding.

This all sounds sci-fi, yet drones deploying drones could be the future of unmanned warfare. Concurrently with the Hydra project, DARPA is developing a similar program with Lockheed Martin aimed at developing unmanned vehicles and drones to supply troops by air and land.

Last January DARPA also announced another program exploring an upward falling payloads (UFPs) concept, implying storage of necessary supplies on seabed in waterproof containers. Yet the UFP and Hydra are two separate projects, a DARPA spokesman stressed.

_“The basic difference is that UFP involves systems deployed at the bottom of the deep sea for years at a time, while Hydra plans for modules in shallower water that are submerged for weeks or months at a time,”_ he explained the difference on request from InformationWeek.

The Hydra platform might also be in demand in case of natural disasters, as drones could deliver emergency equipment close to coastline of the affected areas.

_“Hydra will integrate existing and emerging technologies in new ways to create an alternate means of delivering a variety of payloads close to the point of use,”_ informs DARPA, which eyes the not-so-remote future primarily through the prism of military application of innovative technology.

With all the technological ambitions in hand, DARPA may soon be seen setting Guillermo del Toro’s movie ‘Pacific Rim’ as benchmark. In any case, surfers in, say, 2020, will have to act with discretion. Who knows what will be watching them from underneath.

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## Banglar Bir

__ https://www.facebook.com/




*Bangladesh Defence*



#BangladeshAirForce #BAF
Shared by: Bangladesh Defence

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB added a new photo.*
Yesterday at 11:30 · 




*বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর স্পেশাল কমান্ডো ইউনিট "41 Squardon ৪১ স্কোয়াড্রন" এর জন্য বিভিন্ন অস্ত্রের যে টেন্ডার ডাকা হয়েছিলো সেসব অস্ত্রের ডেলিভারী আগামী বছরের শুরুর দিক থেকে ডেলিভারী গ্রহন করবে বলে জানা গেছে।

গতমাসে বিমানবাহিনীর কমান্ডো ইউনিটের জন্য ২০০ টি 200X 9mm সাব-মেশিনগান, ২২০ টি 9mm সাইড আর্ম (পিস্তল), ৫০ টি 50 X 12 gauge combat shotguns এবং ১০ টি 10 X 7.62mmx39mm স্নাইপার রাইফেলের টেন্ডার আহ্বান করেছিলো। টেন্ডার অনুসারে এগুলো Counter Terrorism (CT) পারপাসে কেনা হচ্ছে।

বিডিমিলিটারীর মতে এয়ারফোর্স কমান্ডো ইউনিটের জন্য যেসব অস্ত্র আসবে-





♦9mm SMG হিসেবে যুক্তরাষ্ট্রে নির্মিত Kriss Vector Gen-II or অথবা SIG MPX



♦শটগান হিসেবে রাশিয়ান Saiga-12



♦9mm Side arm হিসেবে যেকোন পিস্তল



♦7.62mm Sniper হিসেবে চাইনিজ Type-85

এছাড়া বিমানবাহিনীর পাইলটদের জন্য ১০০ টি 100 X 7.65mm PDW (Personal Defence Weapon) কেনারও টেন্ডার দেয়া হয়েছিলো।*

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## masud



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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*



*New combat dress of Bangladesh Navy and Bangladesh Air Force
From January 2018 BAF and BN will receive new ২০১৮ সালের জানুয়ারী মাস থেকে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং নৌবাহিনী নতুন combat dress পেতে যাচ্ছে।

প্রথম ছবিতে বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর এবং দ্বিতীয় ছবিতে বিমানবাহিনীর কম্বেট ড্রেস যা ২০১৮ সালের জানুয়ারী মাস থেকে চালু হচ্ছে।
underneath BN combat dress *




*




Above BAF combat dress*

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## Banglar Bir

*



যে ড্রোন বিমান বাহিনীর জরুরী প্রয়োজন 
Bangladesh Air Force's UAV Options*




New Defense BD Channel
P*ublished on Nov 25, 2017
Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) Needs A Fleet of Efficient Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) to Reduce Pressure on Manned Combat Aircraft. 

BAF doesn’t operate any capable unmanned aerial system (UAS) or UAVs right now. But, to ensure force’s capabilities it’s now time to acquire some drones to conduct surveillance and reconnaissance missions in the regions where manned aircraft operations costs unnecessarily. 

There are handful options for Bangladesh regarding UAV/UCAVs. First of all China can be the most predictable source as several Chinese surveillance and armed UAVs are emerged as capable system. 

Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group recently unveiled Wing Loong II Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle (UCAV) which is the successor of the previous version Wing Loong I. on the other side China Aerospace Science and Industries Corporation (CASIC) also offering it’s new version of the RainBow series armed drones named CH-5, which is the most powerful & capable Chinese combat UAV. 

Besides these two there are many other Chinese military drones which can make their way to the Bangladesh Air Force, and those are cheap, cost effective solutions. 

Other than China BAF can also go for Turkish military drones, mostly TAI developed Anka and –Kale-Baykar’s Bayraktar & Bayraktar TB2 armed UAV. 

Turkish ones may cost more than Chinese ones but those are reliable and almost similar to the western UAVs.*

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB* 




*One of the best picture of Bell-212 operated by Border Guard Bangladesh (BGB).....

BGB will receive their 2 x Mi-171 Transport helicopter soon.
Those choppers will be operated by BAF pilots.*

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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*






*♦Radars used by BAF বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ব্যবহৃত রাডারসমুহ



♦

Radar হলো যুদ্ধক্ষেত্র এবং শান্তিকালীন উভয় সময়ে ব্যবহৃত একটি অতি প্রয়োজনীয় Object detection System যা Radio waves ব্যবহারের মাধ্যমে আকাশ পথে আগত যেকোন বস্তু শনাক্ত এবং এর রেঞ্জ, গতিবেগ এবং কৌণিক অবস্থান সম্পর্কেও ধারনা দিয়ে থাকে।

দ্বিতীয় বিশ্বযুদ্ধের পুর্বে এবং চলাকালে এই রাডার আবিষ্কৃত হয়।এটি মুলত একটি স্বাধীন দেশের অভ্যন্তরে আকাশপথে বিনা অনুমতিতে, গোপন অনুপ্রবেশ এসব ডিটেক্ট করতে ব্যবহৃত হয়ে থাকে।

আজ আমরা বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর ব্যবহৃত রাডার সিস্টেমগুলো সম্পর্কে জানবো-




♦Selex RAT-31DL AESA Radar-Italy

ইটালি থেকে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এই অত্যাধুনিক এবং সবচেয়ে শক্তিশালী 3D Solid-state Long Range Surveillance Active Phased Array Radar (AESA) রাডারটি ক্রয় করেছে।
এর রেঞ্জ ৫০০ কিমি এবং ৩০ কিমি পর্যন্ত উচ্চতার যেকোন object ডিটেক্ট করতে সক্ষম।
এটি এখনো অর্ডারে আছে।
এখনো দেশে আসে নি।এটি বরিশালে স্থাপন করা হবে।




♦AN / TPS - 43 Air Surveillance Radar-USA

এটি মার্কিন যুক্তরাষ্ট্রে নির্মিত একটি Air Surveillance Radar system. এটির রেঞ্জ ২০০ মাইল (৩২১কিমি).




♦JY-11B AESA Radar-China

এটি চীনে নির্মিত অত্যাধুনিক Low Altitude Air Surveillance Radar. এটির রেঞ্জ ২৮০ কিমি এবং যেকোন নিচু দিয়ে উড়ে যাওয়া বিমান বা অবজেক্ট ডিটেক্ট করতে পারে।




♦YLC -6 M 2 D Air Surveillance Radar-China

এটি চীনে নির্মিত 2D Air Surveillance Radar system. এটির রেঞ্জ ২৫০+ কিমি।




♦RL -5 M Air Surveillance Radar

বিমানবাহিনীর ব্যবহৃত এই রাডারটির রেঞ্জ ২৫০+ কিমি




♦Kasta 2 E 2 Low Altitude Air Surveillance Radar-Russian

রাশিয়ার নির্মিত এইই রাডার সিস্টেম ২০১২-১৩ সালে ক্রয় করে।
১৫০ কিমি রেঞ্জের এই রাডার নিচ দিয়ে উড়ে যাওয়া এরিয়াল টার্গেট ডিটেক্ট করে থাকে।




♦JH -16 3 D AESA Air Surveillance Radar-China
*
*চীনে নির্মিত **Chinese** AESA রাডারটি বিমানবাহিনী ব্যবহার করে থাকে।*
*



♦1 L 117 M 3 D Air Surveillance Radar




♦Type 513 B Air Surveillance Radar

আমাদের সম্পুর্ন আকাশসীমা এবং প্রতিবেশী দেশের কিছু অংশ আমাদের রাডারের আওতায় আছে।এছাড়া এই বছরে "বঙ্গবন্ধু এয়ারফোর্স বেইস" এর জন্য নতুন Air Surveillance Radar কেনার জন্য দরপত্র দেয়া হয়েছিলো যেখানে ২৮০ কিমি রেঞ্জের কথা উল্লেখ ছিলো*

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## masud

BAF mig-A$$............

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## masud



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## Bengal Tiger 71

Guys we need to avoid posting in BD Air Force thread until BAF clear the deal of MRCA.


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## Banglar Bir

*Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর there is little hope for BAF's MRCA purchase before 2020-2021 নিয়ে ২০২০-২১ এর আগে কোন আশা নেই।অর্থাৎ ২০২০-২১ এর আগে অর্ডার করা হবে না।

তবে However as a Stop Gap by 2018 হিসেবে ২০১৮ সালে under G2G এর ভিত্তিতে new fighter is expected. according to reliable sources নতুন ফাইটার জেট কেনা হবে বলে নির্ভরযোগ্য সুত্রানুসারে জানা গেছে।

২০২১-২২ এ বিমানবাহিনীর পুরাতন F-7MB গুলো অবসরে যাবে এবং F-7BG কে ২৫ নং স্কোয়াড্রনে পাঠানো হবে।সেই হিসেবে ৫ নং স্কোয়াড্রনের জন্য নতুন ফাইটারের ডিল ২০১৮-১৯ এ হবে তা মোটামুটি নিশ্চিত বলা যায়।২০২১-২২ এই তা বহরে যুক্ত হবে।

প্রধান first Candidate হিসেবে আছে রাশিয়ান is MiG-35 এবং চাইনিজ and J-10B/C. কিন্তু চাইনিজ ফাইটারের প্রতি বিমানবাহিনীর এখন আর ইচ্ছা নেই।তাই সম্পুর্ন F-7 ফ্লিট কে রাশিয়ান to be relaced by MiG-35 দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে এবং MiG-35 ই হবে আমাদের পরবর্তী the next Backbone fighter.

এছাড়া ২০২০-২১ পর্যন্ত আরো নতুন জেট ট্রেইনার,মিডিয়াম হেলিকপ্টার,সার্চ এন্ড রেসকিউ হেলিকপ্টার,এট্যাক হেলিকপ্টার, ড্রোন,ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান এবং মধ্যম ও দুরপাল্লার এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল এবং রাডার ক্রয় করা হবে বলে নির্ভরযোগ্য সুত্রানুসারে জানা গেছে।

পরবর্তী কোন আপডেট পেলে জানানো হবে*

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## Nabil365

Banglar Bir said:


> *Defence Technology of Bangladesh-DTB
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর there is little hope for BAF's MRCA purchase before 2020-2021 নিয়ে ২০২০-২১ এর আগে কোন আশা নেই।অর্থাৎ ২০২০-২১ এর আগে অর্ডার করা হবে না।
> 
> তবে However as a Stop Gap by 2018 হিসেবে ২০১৮ সালে under G2G এর ভিত্তিতে new fighter is expected. according to reliable sources নতুন ফাইটার জেট কেনা হবে বলে নির্ভরযোগ্য সুত্রানুসারে জানা গেছে।
> 
> ২০২১-২২ এ বিমানবাহিনীর পুরাতন F-7MB গুলো অবসরে যাবে এবং F-7BG কে ২৫ নং স্কোয়াড্রনে পাঠানো হবে।সেই হিসেবে ৫ নং স্কোয়াড্রনের জন্য নতুন ফাইটারের ডিল ২০১৮-১৯ এ হবে তা মোটামুটি নিশ্চিত বলা যায়।২০২১-২২ এই তা বহরে যুক্ত হবে।
> 
> প্রধান first Candidate হিসেবে আছে রাশিয়ান is MiG-35 এবং চাইনিজ and J-10B/C. কিন্তু চাইনিজ ফাইটারের প্রতি বিমানবাহিনীর এখন আর ইচ্ছা নেই।তাই সম্পুর্ন F-7 ফ্লিট কে রাশিয়ান to be relaced by MiG-35 দিয়ে রিপ্লেস করা হবে এবং MiG-35 ই হবে আমাদের পরবর্তী the next Backbone fighter.
> 
> এছাড়া ২০২০-২১ পর্যন্ত আরো নতুন জেট ট্রেইনার,মিডিয়াম হেলিকপ্টার,সার্চ এন্ড রেসকিউ হেলিকপ্টার,এট্যাক হেলিকপ্টার, ড্রোন,ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান এবং মধ্যম ও দুরপাল্লার এয়ারডিফেন্স মিসাইল এবং রাডার ক্রয় করা হবে বলে নির্ভরযোগ্য সুত্রানুসারে জানা গেছে।
> 
> পরবর্তী কোন আপডেট পেলে জানানো হবে*


I told you guys before that Mig-35 is coming!

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## bluesky

*http://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/foreign-affairs/2017/06/25/russia-offers-mig35-india/
Russia offers MiG 35 to India, after Bangladesh*
Ashis Biswas
Published at 09:32 PM June 25, 2017



MiG-35 702 BLUE of Russian Air Force *Bigstock*
*Experts say the fourth generation MiG 35 is a vastly updated version of the earlier MiG 29 series specialised aircrafts.*

After first offering to sell the advanced MiG 35 fighter plane to Bangladesh in April this year, Russia has now offered the same to India.

First publicly presented at the 2007 Bangalore air show, the MiG 35 has since been much improved. According to one report, during Indian Defence Minister Arun Jaitley’s last visit to Moscow, officials of both countries discussed the possibility of India purchasing the plane to enhance its air force.

Experts say the fourth generation MiG 35 is a vastly updated version of the earlier MiG 29 series specialised aircrafts. It has highly advanced avionics and weapons systems, including the NESA radar. It has a multi-role profile and its new location system enables it to operate freely from inputs provided from ground, adding to its operational flexibility.

Interestingly enough, *of all the countries in South Asia, Russia first offered to sell the plane to Bangladesh.* The proposal was made right after the recent Hasina-Modi summit meeting on April 7 this year, where it was announced that the Indian government would extend a special $500 million line of credit to Bangladesh to enable it to strengthen its armed forces.

In addition to Bangladesh, Afghanistan has also secured much needed weapons for its army with India’s help via a similar arrangement.

At the time, the BNP had alleged that the Bangladesh government would end using the Indian line of credit to pay for obsolete arms and weapons. Bangladesh should not buy “old Russian warplanes,” BNP members had said, adding that India’s motives were “suspect”.

The opposition leaders had further alleged that there were some undeclared, hidden clauses in the deal worked out between Prime Ministers Sheikh Hasina and Narendra Modi and had urged that these be made public.

In the case of the MiG 35, however, the BNP’s charges do not seem convincing. Bangladesh and India aside, Egypt has already ordered 46 MiG 35s under a $2.5 billion deal with Russia. Each plane costs around $46 million. Other countries, including the UAE, which is in the process of signing a memorandum of understanding with Russia, and Kazhakstan, have also expressed interest. Had the plane been truly “obsolete” as the BNP claimed, this would never have been the case.

The allegation of obsolescence is further weakened by the Nizhni Novgorod Russian MiG producing unit’s current record: A reported 11,000 have been sold abroad out of an aggregate of 45,000 planes in 2016.

India too has just concluded a $10.5 billion arms purchasing deal with Russia.

In terms of Bangladesh, there is little doubt that between India and China there is a clear economic rivalry concerning project implementation, securing of orders and various other issues, including the sale of arms. China enjoys a big lead. Though India has pressed for a 25-year Defence Pact with Bangladesh, Prime Minister Hasina did not accept. While Bangladesh is keen to maintain cordial relations with its neighbours, it also clearly does not wish to put all its eggs in one basket.

Irrespective, Bangladesh is reportedly looking into buying 8 MiG 35s in the first phase.

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## bd_4_ever

So its Mig-35 as stop-gap eh?

Good job BAF leadership. Effing idiots with no backup plans.

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## mb444

Don’t have much knowledge on jets but are these migs complete duds? Can someone knowledgeable layout the issue. Why the hell should we operate same things as our primary enemy. BA and BN have not made such error. Why is BAF so keen on Russian birds? Not saying they are bad but given Russia india defense relationship its suicidal.

This leaves only western and Chinese option. 

What happened to the much talked about Chinese package ? We should get on with that already.

Whatever the difficulty we need to explore western platforms. In war we can not rely on Russia I do not think.

BAF needs to be a mix of Chinese and western jets I think to maximise our options.

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## Allah Akbar

mb444 said:


> Don’t have much knowledge on jets but are these migs complete duds? Can someone knowledgeable layout the issue. Why the hell should we operate same things as our primary enemy. BA and BN have not made such error. Why is BAF so keen on Russian birds? Not saying they are bad but given Russia india defense relationship its suicidal.
> 
> This leaves only western and Chinese option.
> 
> What happened to the much talked about Chinese package ? We should get on with that already.
> 
> Whatever the difficulty we need to explore western platforms. In war we can not rely on Russia I do not think.
> 
> BAF needs to be a mix of Chinese and western jets I think to maximise our options.


Russia will betray in war time .I personally like to purchase latest new jf 17 as a light attack figheter ,j 10-b/c for medium attack jet and a squadron of f15 eagle or euro fighter for the heavy and deep strike and counter measrue the burmese mig fleet . ignore russia .and for sake no more migs .russia has long histroy of betrayal .naser kicked all russians out of egypt for this why and go for american arms again.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Don’t have much knowledge on jets but are these migs complete duds? Can someone knowledgeable layout the issue. Why the hell should we operate same things as our primary enemy. BA and BN have not made such error. Why is BAF so keen on Russian birds? Not saying they are bad but given Russia india defense relationship its suicidal.
> 
> This leaves only western and Chinese option.
> 
> What happened to the much talked about Chinese package ? We should get on with that already.
> 
> Whatever the difficulty we need to explore western platforms. In war we can not rely on Russia I do not think.
> 
> BAF needs to be a mix of Chinese and western jets I think to maximise our options.



BAF needs heavy birds like SU-30SME or F-15.

For F-15, the price could be a USN naval base in BD on Bay of Bengal which is totally out of the question.

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## monitor

Capture by me in farmgate area today a training aircraft of BAF rehearsal for victory day 2017

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## asad71

All being discussed here are speculation till there is a firm and unfettered political will to acquire top order eqpt. In such major acquisition, the nation's foreign policy and def outlook are important. If we get Chinese eqpt then any ally with similar eqpt could consider supplements from each other in case of war. Here we are discussing Russian eqpt. Which air force can that possibly supplement?


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## Centaur

bluesky said:


> Though India has pressed for a 25-year Defence Pact with Bangladesh, Prime Minister Hasina did not accept. While Bangladesh is keen to maintain cordial relations with its neighbours, it also clearly does not wish to put all its eggs in one basket.


Thanks to Prime minister sheikh hasina. 

*How ever hope BAF will buy more jets in near future in order to become a balanced air force.*


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## monitor

PT-6 training aircraft and another transport aircraft in farmgate.

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## monitor

Bangladesh Air Force buying Mig-35 as replacement for F-7 beside program for buying MRCA . 
Mig-35 will come as a govt. to govt. deal not tender like MRCA >

Souce : BDMILITAY.COM

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## monitor

Bangladesh air force buying M-35M helicopter from Russia .air force initially wanted Turkish T-129 but it's price is more and carry less weapons so air force decided to buy 12 initially.

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## UKBengali

monitor said:


> Bangladesh air force buying M-35M helicopter from Russia .air force initially wanted Turkish T-129 but it's price is more and carry less weapons so air force decided to buy 12 initially.



Hope this is not true.

BD needs to buy from Turkey for strategic reasons.

@Avicenna

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## BDforever

monitor said:


> Bangladesh air force buying M-35M helicopter from Russia .air force initially wanted Turkish T-129 but it's price is more and carry less weapons so air force decided to buy 12 initially.


ahem, Mi35M for Airforce and Mi28NM/T-129 for Army(not before 2021-2022)


UKBengali said:


> Hope this is not true.
> 
> BD needs to buy from Turkey for strategic reasons.
> 
> @Avicenna

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Hope this is not true.
> 
> BD needs to buy from Turkey for strategic reasons.
> 
> @Avicenna



Not surprised. I don't have much hope in regards to Bangladeshi leadership to change their thinking.

That being said, of course there are benefits to choosing the Mil-Mi 35. Namely cheaper, more weapons load and most importantly commonality with the Mil-Mi 171. 

Also, seems like a lot of countries are buying the type recently.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Not surprised. I don't have much hope in regards to Bangladeshi leadership to change their thinking.
> 
> That being said, of course there are benefits to choosing the Mil-Mi 35. Namely cheaper, more weapons load and most importantly commonality with the Mil-Mi 171.
> 
> Also, seems like a lot of countries are buying the type recently.



What is the point of larger weapons load when the helicopter cannot be fully used against India? Russia has too much stake with the Indians.
12 now and more later(next decade) will allow economies of scale down the line.
Anyway, this is not definite yet and so the Turkish helicopter is still possible.

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## Zabaniyah

mb444 said:


> Don’t have much knowledge on jets but are these migs complete duds? Can someone knowledgeable layout the issue. Why the hell should we operate same things as our primary enemy. BA and BN have not made such error. Why is BAF so keen on Russian birds? Not saying they are bad but given Russia india defense relationship its suicidal.



BAF had been operating MiG-29's since the 90's. In fact, the MiG deal was signed in the mid 90's during the ruling AL government. BA uses BTR-80's. 

We asked the Americans for F-16's way back in the 80's, but they refused to sell them to us. 



warrantofficer said:


> Russia will betray in war time .I personally like to purchase latest new jf 17 as a light attack figheter ,j 10-b/c for medium attack jet and a squadron of f15 eagle or euro fighter for the heavy and deep strike and counter measrue the burmese mig fleet . ignore russia .and for sake no more migs .russia has long histroy of betrayal .naser kicked all russians out of egypt for this why and go for american arms again.



Have you considered how much an F-15 costs? Not to mention the extra investment for the required infrastructure to support them? It would similarly apply for the Typhoon or any Western jet for the matter. India's Rafale deal did not go exactly as planned not just because of money, but due to lack of understanding between the parties. 

And for the record, the Americans did sanction the Pakistanis during the 65' War and the Kargil War. So one has to be careful. The Americans make brilliant weapons though. In fact, I would pick an American bird over a Russian/Chinese one any day. There's a reason why the Russians and Chinese still fear and respect the humble F-16. 

The only rationale I can think of as far as Russian birds go is that they are the only ones that can fulfill the tender from a price/performance perspective. MiG-35 has identical maintenance schedule as the MiG-29 and training costs would be negligible. 



UKBengali said:


> What is the point of larger weapons load when the helicopter cannot be fully used against India? Russia has too much stake with the Indians.
> 12 now and more later(next decade) will allow economies of scale down the line.
> Anyway, this is not definite yet and so the Turkish helicopter is still possible.



When I saw the price of an Altay MBT, I was flabbergasted. Even the M1 Abrams is cheaper.


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## Nike

Zabaniyah said:


> BAF had been operating MiG-29's since the 90's. In fact, the MiG deal was signed in the mid 90's during the ruling AL government. BA uses BTR-80's.
> 
> We asked the Americans for F-16's way back in the 80's, but they refused to sell them to us.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered how much an F-15 costs? Not to mention the extra investment for the required infrastructure to support them? It would similarly apply for the Typhoon or any Western jet for the matter. India's Rafale deal did not go exactly as planned not just because of money, but due to lack of understanding between the parties.
> 
> And for the record, the Americans did sanction the Pakistanis during the 65' War and the Kargil War. So one has to be careful. The Americans make brilliant weapons though. In fact, I would pick an American bird over a Russian/Chinese one any day. There's a reason why the Russians and Chinese still fear and respect the humble F-16.
> 
> The only rationale I can think of as far as Russian birds go is that they are the only ones that can fulfill the tender from a price/performance perspective. MiG-35 has identical maintenance schedule as the MiG-29 and training costs would be negligible.
> 
> 
> 
> When I saw the price of an Altay MBT, I was flabbergasted. Even the M1 Abrams is cheaper.



I doubt Bd had sent request for F16 in 80 decade, as at the time not many US Allies operating them (barring Israel), and at the time for second tier ally like South Korea, Thailand, Singapore and so on they offered F8 Crusader, F 5E and F4 Phantom as F16 is quite new and sophisticated enough to deter the balance of power and not to mention the fledging economy Bd at those difficult time cant afford it. And most likely US still harboring a suspicion against bd in which still on the orbit of India and Soviet.


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## Avicenna

madokafc said:


> I doubt Bd had sent request for F16 in 80 decade, as at the time not many US Allies operating them (barring Israel), and at the time for second tier ally like South Korea, Thailand, Singapore and so on they offered F8 Crusader, F 5E and F4 Phantom as F16 is quite new and sophisticated enough to deter the balance of power and not to mention the fledging economy Bd at those difficult time cant afford it. And most likely US still harboring a suspicion against bd in which still on the orbit of India and Soviet.



I have to corroborate what @Zabaniyah said. I vaguely remember hearing about that too back in the day. I wish someone would share the details of that situation, as unlikely as it may seem.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I have to corroborate what @Zabaniyah said. I vaguely remember hearing about that too back in the day. I wish someone would share the details of that situation, as unlikely as it may seem.



That was from the late 1990s when Awami League was in power.
BD government wanted 27 F-16s but the US refused saying it was not "appropriate" for BD. BD then went ahead and placed an order for 16 Mig-29s with options for another 16.

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## masud

Now days BAF is really a joke, .....i really hope, BAF will buy J-10C/D.............

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## Hindustani78

Bangladesh's air force planes release colored smoke during celebrations marking the country's 46th Victory Day in Dhaka, Bangladesh, Saturday, Dec. 16, 2017.(AP Photo)





Bangladesh air force planes release coloured smoke during celebrations marking the country''s 46th Victory Day in Dhaka, on Saturday, December 16, 2017. — AP/PTI

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## dy1022

masud said:


> Now days BAF is really a joke, .....i really hope, BAF will buy J-10C/D.............


 


1152 T/R unit for J10B/C's AESA

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## masud

dy1022 said:


> 1152 T/R unit for J10B/C's AESA


i know bro it,s an awsome machine...........
i don,t know why BAF is naglacted compare to ARMY AND NAVY........ and i am really frasted to hare abou stop gap-stop gap buying. If Bangladesh gov don,t want to purchase any capable jet (because of money problem) then Our government should diss-miss the AIR FORCE branch.............because it will save more government money..............

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## masud



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## Incog_nito

So, JF-17 is not in their story? J-10B or MiG-29s?


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## ghost250

large formation of pt-6 flying over BAF base matiur..






__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## ghost250

Russia has refunded the Bangladesh Air Force the full equivalent cost of one Yak-130 for the first crashed aircraft.

The first airframe that crashed suffered problems with digital FBW system, which was acknowledged by the Russian manufacturer.

The Bangladesh Air Force might also get refund for the last two crashes because it is becoming more clear that BAF pilots were not responsible for the crash. The aircraft digital controls suffered problems during formation flying leading them to crash according to air force sources.

The Bangladesh Air Force will exercise their right to purchase additional Yak-130s under the same offer.




BDMILITARY

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## bdslph

shourov323 said:


> Russia has refunded the Bangladesh Air Force the full equivalent cost of one Yak-130 for the first crashed aircraft.
> 
> The first airframe that crashed suffered problems with digital FBW system, which was acknowledged by the Russian manufacturer.
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force might also get refund for the last two crashes because it is becoming more clear that BAF pilots were not responsible for the crash. The aircraft digital controls suffered problems during formation flying leading them to crash according to air force sources.
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force will exercise their right to purchase additional Yak-130s under the same offer.
> View attachment 445531
> 
> BDMILITARY



if the said is true then the YAK130 we should not purchase it any more better buy the Chinese ones

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## dy1022

bdslph said:


> if the said is true then the YAK130 we should not purchase it any more better buy the Chinese ones

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## Zabaniyah

madokafc said:


> I doubt Bd had sent request for F16 in 80 decade, as at the time not many US Allies operating them (barring Israel), and at the time for second tier ally like South Korea, Thailand, Singapore and so on they offered F8 Crusader, F 5E and F4 Phantom as F16 is quite new and sophisticated enough to deter the balance of power and not to mention the fledging economy Bd at those difficult time cant afford it. And most likely US still harboring a suspicion against bd in which still on the orbit of India and Soviet.



Yes, they did. 
http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html

I know, it is a bit ironic. It took the US a long time to finally recognize Bangladesh. Bangladesh never participated in any anti-American activities. So we are on amicable terms with them. The country with whom we have an extremely complicated relationship with is India. 

I suspect the BD government at the time were concerned about the insurgency ravaging in the south eastern region of the country (i.e. Shanti Bahini). But that's just my opinion. Thank God we didn't need those jets. That would have been like pouring fuel over fire.

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## Nike

Zabaniyah said:


> Yes, they did.
> http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html
> 
> I know, it is a bit ironic. It took the US a long time to finally recognize Bangladesh. Bangladesh never participated in any anti-American activities. So we are on amicable terms with them. The country with whom we have an extremely complicated relationship with is India.
> 
> I suspect the BD government at the time were concerned about the insurgency ravaging in the south eastern region of the country (i.e. Shanti Bahini). But that's just my opinion. Thank God we didn't need those jets. That would have been like pouring fuel over fire.



Thats late 90s propose not back in 80s decade, @UKBengali has said precisely

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## Zabaniyah

madokafc said:


> Thats late 90s propose not back in 80s decade, @UKBengali has said precisely



Read please:


> *The United States, which refused to sell Bangladesh its F-16 warplanes several years ago, is concerned about Dhaka's plan to buy eight Russian MiG-29s, State Department officials said on Thursday.*




Just because the report is dated 1999, doesn't mean the events took place at that time. Weapon assessments take time. It's like shopping for groceries or playing a game of Command & Conquer as a lot of guys here think.

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## Nike

Zabaniyah said:


> Read please:
> 
> 
> Just because the report is dated 1999, doesn't mean the events took place at that time. Weapon assessments take time. It's like shopping for groceries or playing a game of Command & Conquer as a lot of guys here think.



several years ago is not decade ago, you know when most report mentioned word of several, thats literally they mean one, two, three or at most nine year.


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## Zabaniyah

madokafc said:


> several years ago is not decade ago, you know when most report mentioned word of several, thats literally they mean one, two, three or at most nine year.



Okay, whichever floats your boat your highness.

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## Nike

Zabaniyah said:


> Okay, whichever floats your boat your highness.



Nah, most people using simple word with simple meaning for their report so they just doesnt give miss data. Dont know when you put word several years ago to mentioned a thing happened more than 15 years ago in your own report.

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## Avicenna

madokafc said:


> Nah, most people using simple word with simple meaning for their report so they just doesnt give miss data. Dont know when you put word several years ago to mentioned a thing happened more than 15 years ago in your own report.



You're being ridiculous. You're wrong, now move on.

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## monitor

লেখক- Tanvir Ahamed Zeesun

#২০১৯ সালের মধ্যে যেসব ইন্ট্রিগ্রেটেড এয়ার ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম বাংলাদেশে অর্ন্তভুক্তিকরন করা হবে:
১.এফকে-৩ (আর্মি)
২.এফএম-৩০০০(আর্মি)
৩.এল.ওয়াই-৮০ডি(আর্মি এবং এয়ারফোর্স)(সম্ভবত)
৪.অটোমেটেড রাডার কন্ট্রোল এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান।
৫.আগের ম্যানুয়াল এয়ার ডিফেন্স গানসমুহের রাডার কন্ট্রোল ব্যবস্থার আধুনিকায়ন এবং পর্যায়ক্রমিক রিপ্লেসমেন্ট।
৬.আরো এফ.এম.৯০ শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম।(আর্মি,এয়ারফোর্স)(আমাদের ফ্লাগশিপ বংগবন্ধু ফ্রিগেটেও এফ.এম.৯০ এর নেভাল ভার্সন ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে)
৭.আরো ম্যানপ্যাড সংগ্রহকরণ।
৮.আরো নতুন রাডার এবং এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি রাডার এন্ড ওয়ার্নিং সিস্টেম (সি-২৯৫এ.ই.ডব্লিউ& সি)সংযোজন।

১.কক্সবাজারের রামুতে আপাতত এয়ার ডিফেন্স রাডার এবং এফ এম ৯০ শোর্ডস আছে,এবং আপাতত নতুন এয়ার ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম না আসা অবধি এফ.এম.-৯০ বি ক্যান্টনমেন্ট এবং এফ.এম-৯০ সি এয়ারবেসের নিরাপত্তা দেবে,ভবিষ্যতে এর সাথে মিডিয়াম রেঞ্জ স্যাম যুক্ত হবে।ইতিমধ্যে রাডার এবং রাডারকন্ট্রোল্ড এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান ও মোতায়েন রয়েছে সেখানে।

কক্সবাজারে নির্মাণাধীন সাবমেরিন বেসের নিরাপত্তার জন্য কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম বসবে।অনেকে রাশিয়ান ডিফেন্স সিস্টেমের কথা বললেও হয়ত সেখানে চাইনিজ কোন প্লাটফর্মই বসানো হবে।(সি-৮০২ সম্ভবত)

২.পটুয়াখালীতে আর্মি ক্যান্টনমেন্ট হবে সেটা মোটামুটি আপনারা সবাই জানেন।এর সাথে বাংলাদেশের সবচাইতে বড় নেভী বেস পটুয়াখালীর রামনাবাদে নির্মাণাধীন যাতে নেভীর জন্য আধুনিক এভিয়েশন সুবিধা থাকবে।যার অর্থ নেভীতে আরো নতুন এন্টি সাবমেরিন হেলিকপ্টার,মেরিটাইম এয়ারক্রাফট,মেরি
টাইম সার্চ এন্ড রেস্কিউ হেলিকপ্টার যুক্ত হচ্ছে।এছাড়া খুব শীঘ্রই বরিশালে এয়ারবেসের নির্মাণ কাজ ও শুরু হবে আশা করা যায়,নেভী বেসের নিরাপত্তার জন্য ইন্ট্রিগ্রেটেড কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম অপরিহার্য,আর রামনাবাদে যে কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স ফ্যাসিলিটি থাকবে তা বলার অপেক্ষা রাখেনা,ইতিমধ্যে এয়ার ফোর্স ইতালি থেকে ৫০০+ কি:মি: লং রেঞ্জ রেডিয়াস র্যাঞ্জের স্যালেক্স র্যাট-৩১ডিএল এ.ই.এস.এ রাডার ও অর্ডার করেছে যা বরিশালে বসবে।

৩.সিলেটের ওসমানী আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দরের সম্প্রসারণ এর পাশাপাশি তা যাতে সামরিক কাজেও ব্যবহার করা যায় সে কাজ চলমান আছে,মোতায়েন আছে অত্যাধুনিক রাডার যার আওতায় ভারতের ও কিছুটা অংশ রয়েছে এবং যশোর এয়ারপোর্ট এবং এয়ার বেজের আধুনিকায়ন এর পাশাপাশি রাজশাহীতে এয়ারফোর্সের জন্য শাহ-মখদুম এয়ারপোর্ট এর আধুনিকায়ন এর কথা রয়েছে।শাহ মখদুম এয়ারবেজের আধুনিকায়ন সাপেক্ষে সৈয়দপুর এয়ারবেজের আধুনিকায়ন এর কথা রয়েছে।

৪.উত্তরাঞ্চলীয় এলাকার নিরাপত্তার জন্য শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম,এয়ার ডিফেন্স রাডার,এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান মোতায়েন রয়েছে,আরো আধুনিকায়ন চলমান রয়েছে।যশোরে এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান,ম্যানপ্যাড বিদ্যমান।সামনে আরো নতুন ম্যানপ্যাড আসবে,বাংলাদেশ অর্ডিন্যান্স ফ্যাক্টরিতে আমরা নিজেরাও লাইসেন্স নিয়ে ম্যানপ্যাড বানাই( এফ.এন-১৬)।বংগবন
্ধু এরোনটিক্যাল কমপ্লেক্স ইতোমধ্যে ছোট খাটো টার্গেট+সার্ভেলেন্স ড্রোন,ট্রেনিং এয়ারক্রাফট বানানো নিয়ে গবেষনা করছে।

#টাংগাইল এর পাহাড়কাঞ্চনপুরে ইতিমধ্যে বিমানবাহিনীর মাইক্রোওয়েভ রাডার কেন্দ্র বিদ্যমান।এখানে রাডার মেরামত এবং ওভারহলিং ও করা হয়।

#অত্যাধুনিক এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি ওয়ার্নিং সিস্টেম (সি ২৯৫ এ.ই.ডব্লিউ&সি) বংগবন্ধু এয়ারবেসে থাকবে যার মাধ্যমে সমগ্র দেশের রাডার ব্যবস্থা ইন্ট্রিগ্রেটেড থাকবে বলে আশা করা যায়।বর্তমানে পুরো দেশ রাডারের আওতায় থাকলেও সামনে সে সক্ষমতা যে আরো বাড়বে এতে সন্দেহ নেই,আর্লি এয়ারবোর্ন ওয়ার্নিং সিস্টেম পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রাম আমাদের পূর্ণ রাডার সিস্টেমের আওতায় আনবে,যেহেতু উঁচু-নীচু পাহাড়ি এলাকা রাডারের মাইক্রোওয়েভ তরঙ্গ প্রচারে বাধা দেয়,আর সে সুযোগটুকুই মায়ানমার বার বার কাজে লাগায় আকাশসীমা লংঘনের জন্য এবং তার জন্যেও ব্যবস্থা হচ্ছে ।এছাড়া যুদ্ধকালীন সময়ে এটি আমাদের মোবাইল রাডার হিসেবেও এটি কাজ করবে।আমাদের দেশের আয়তন হিসেবে আপাতত ১ টি দিয়ে কাজ শুরু হলেও,২ টি এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি ওয়ার্নিং রাডার সিস্টেম (C-295aew&c)ইজ মোর দ্যান এনাফ।

৫.প্রশ্ন উঠতে পারে বাংলাদেশে এত রাডার কেন?সব স্ট্রাটেজিক জায়গায় রাডার,স্যাম সিস্টেম এর চাইতে রাডার সিস্টেম ই বেশী।কেন বেশি?

#বাস্তব কথা হচ্ছে রাডার হচ্ছে চোখের মতো,ছোট ছোট ডট যা আপনার আমার কাছে কিছুই না,তা দিয়েই শত্রু বিমান,ড্রোন,মিস
াইল খুজে বের করে সামরিক বাহিনী।শান্তিকালীন সময়ে বেসামরিক প্যান্সেঞ্জার,কার্গো বিমান পরিচালনা,আবহাওয়া পূর্বাভাস দেয়া (ইতিমধ্যে আবহাওয়ার জন্য বিমান বাহিনীর ডপলার পালস্ রাডার আছে,এবং আরো নতুন নতুন ডপলার পালস্ রাডার কেনা হচ্ছে),আর সামরিক ক্ষেত্রে নজরদারীর প্রধান উপাদানই হলো রাডার,সামনে আসা মিগ-৩৫,সু ৩০ এর মতো বিমানের লাইফলাইন ই হবে এসব রাডার,,যুদ্ধকালীন সময়ে শত্রুদেশের প্রথম টার্গেটই হবে এসব রাডার ব্যবস্থা অকার্যকর করে দেয়া,,আকাশ দখলে রাখতে শুধু স্যাম,আর বিমানই থাকলে চলে না।বরং দরকার পরে অত্যাধুনিক রাডারের,কারন অন্ধকারে ঢিল মেরে কতটা লাভ হবে,যদি আপনি শত্রু কোথায় দেখতেই না পান?তখন কাজে আসবে AEW&C
৬.ইন্ট্রিগেটেড আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষার অন্যতম শর্ত হলো স্যাম সিস্টেম,আর সেটা হয় আকাশের স্তর ভেদে,যেমন:ভেরি শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম বা ম্যানপ্যাড ৪-৬ কি:মি রেডিয়াস,শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম ১৫-২০ কি:মি,শর্ট টু মিডিয়াম ২০-৫০ কি:মি:,মিডিয়াম টু লং ৭০-১১০ কি:মি,লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম ১৩০-২০০+ কি:মি,এবং এর সাথে বিভিন্ন ক্যালিবারের এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান অন্তর্ভুক্ত।এখন প্রশ্ন উঠতে পারে বাংলাদেশ একেবারে লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম কিনছে না কেন??জাতিসংঘে আমাদের স্বাক্ষরিত নিরস্ত্রীকরণ সনদ অনুযায়ী আমরা ৩০০+ কি:মি: রেঞ্জের অস্ত্র কিনতে পারব না( এটা খারাপ দিক না,আমরা যুদ্ধবাজ বা পারমানবিক শক্তিধর দেশ না,এই ছোট দেশে ১৬+ কোটি লোক বাস করে,যুদ্ধ হলে কতটা ক্ষতি হবে নিশ্চয়ই ভাবতে পারছেন..দেশের সামরিকিকরন করতে গিয়ে উত্তর কোরিয়া করে ফেলবেন দেশকে?দেশের অভ্যন্তরীণ সমস্যার তো অভাব নেই),তেমনিভাবে শুধু লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম মোতায়েন করলেও খেয়াল রাখতে হবে তা যেন শান্তিকালীন সময়ে পার্শ্ববর্তী দেশের আকাশ-সীমা লংঘন না করে(এটা আন্তর্জাতিক নিয়ম,আর তা মানতেই হবে),এর মানে এস ৪০০ কিনলেও তা কিন্তু চট্টগ্রামের আশেপাশে মায়ানমার বর্ডারের কাছেও রাখতে পারবেন না।এমনভাবে রাখতে হবে যাতে সেই ৩০০কি:মি যেন বাংলাদেশের আকাশসীমার বাইরে না যায়,,বেশ জটিল হিসেব।আর যদি কোন কারনে লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম ফেইল করে তবে আপনার নিরাপত্তা কি?ছোট খাটো সার্ভিলেন্স ড্রোন নামানোর জন্য লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম ইউজ করা মানে ব্যপারটা"মশা মারতে কামান দাগার মতো হয়ে যায় না"??কয়েকহাজার ডলারের ডি.জে.আই ম্যাভিক নামাতে তখন কয়েকলক্ষ ডলারের মিসাইলই ব্যবহার করতে হবে।

#এই জন্যই স্তরে স্তরে আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষার ব্যবস্থা করা হয় যাতে একটি সিস্টেম ফেইল করলে অপরটি কার্যকর হয় এবং আপনি নিরাপদ থাকেন।প্রথমে শর্ট,এরপর মিডিয়াম এবং সবশেষে লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম আর যে দেশ আক্রমন করবে তারা প্রথমেই সিভিলিয়ানদের টার্গেট করবে না,বরং প্রথম টার্গেটই হবে গুরুত্বপূর্ণ সামরিক স্থাপনা এবং দেশের গুরুত্বপূর্ণ অর্থনৈতিক অঞ্চল,যাতে আপনার সামরিক বাহিনী এবং অর্থনীতি পংগু হয়ে যায় এবং লং টার্মে আপনি যুদ্ধ করতে না পারেন।এক একটি বোমা,বিমানের ও দাম আছে,আক্রমণকারী দেশ চাইবে না তার মিলিয়ন ডলারের গোলাবারুদ,বিমান,পাইলট এবং ক্রু অহেতুক বিপদে পড়ুক।পাল্টা প্রতিরোধ আর আক্রমনের স্বীকার হউক।যুদ্ধ যতই দ্রুত আর কম খরচে শেষ করা যায় ততই মংগল আর সেই জন্যই যুদ্ধে সামরিক স্থাপনা প্রথমেই গুড়িয়ে দেয়া হয় যাতে আক্রান্ত দেশ প্রতিরোধ গড়তে না পারে।

#আমাদের এয়ারস্পেস যথেষ্ট ছোট,যশোর এয়ারবেজ থেকে ফ্লাই করে একটি মিগ২৯ এর চট্টগ্রাম আসতে ৮-৯ মিনিট সময় লাগে। আমাদের সমুদ্রসীমা মোটামুটিভাবে আমাদের দেশের মোট আয়তনের চাইতে একটু কম,সেই হিসেবে ২০২৫ সাল অনুযায়ী ১-২ স্কোয়াড্রন এফ৭ বিজি/বিজি১ (লাইট এটাকিং+ইন্টারসেপ্টর),১ স্কোয়াড্রন মিগ ২৯(এয়ার সুপিরিয়রিটি+লাইট এম.আর.সি.এ),২-৩ স্কোয়াড্রন মিগ ৩৫(মিডিয়াম এম.আর.সি.এ),১ স্কোয়াড্রন সু ৩০ (হেভী এম.আর.সি.এ) যথেষ্ঠ আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষার জন্য,,এবং এ সংখ্যা ফোর্সেস গোল ২০৩০ এর আওতায় আরো বাড়বে।আর এর সাথে ট্রেনিং এয়ারক্রাফট যেমন -কে৮w,ইয়াক১৩০ এসব দিয়ে লাইট এটাক করা সম্ভব।এমনি এমনি তো এসব আর মিসাইল ক্যারি করেনা ।সামনে আরো কে৮,ইয়াক ১৩০ আসবে,,হয়ত পিটি৬ এর বদলে ইয়াক ১৫২ ও আনা হতে পারে কখনো।

এছাড়া সি১৩০,এএন৩২,সি ২৯৫w(এএন৩২ ফ্লিট এর ভবিষ্যৎ রিপ্লেসমেন্ট, সংখ্যা ৩-৪ টি) এম.আই.১৭১ শাহ ট্রান্সপোর্ট হেলি (লাইট এটাক ও করতে পারে),(অলরেডি আছে,আরো নতুন অর্ডার হচ্ছে এবং হবে)এম.আই ৩৫( এটাক হেলি এয়ার ফোর্সের জন্য),(২০১৯-২০২০ সালে যুক্ত হতে পারে)এম.আই ২৮ এন.এম (ডেডিকেটেড হেভী এটাক হেলি আর্মির জন্য) এসব তো আসছেই (২০২১ এর পরে)

#আর এখনই এর চাইতে বড় এয়ারফোর্স এর মানে হলো অতিরিক্ত খরচ,তাই বলা যায় আমাদের এয়ারফোর্স এখন সঠিক পথেই আছে,দেশের সামরিক ব্যয় অর্থনীতি দ্বারা নিয়ন্ত্রিত,অর্থনীতি ভাল হবার মানে সামরিক ব্যয় বৃদ্ধি,আর আরো আধুনিক অস্ত্র এবং প্রযুক্তি সংগ্রহের সম্ভাবনা।তাই সবাই ট্যাক্স দিন,অর্থের অপচয় কমান আর দেশপ্রেমিক হউন।যাতে অর্থনীতি ভাল হয়,টাকা থাকলে সামরিক আধুনিকায়ন কোন ব্যপারই না।

#আধুনিক যুদ্ধে আকাশ যার দখলে,বিজয় ও তার দখলে।আর্টিলারি যেমন রণাঙ্গনের বিধাতা,আধুনিক বিমান বাহিনীও তেমনি মুক্ত আকাশের বিধাতা এবং সেই সাথে স্থল বাহিনীর সহায়তাকারী।যখনই আর্মি গ্রাউন্ডে পারবেনা,বিমানবাহিনীর ই ডাক পড়বে,সাগরে নেভীর পেট্রলিং এ নেভাল এভিয়েশনের পাশাপাশি বিমানবাহিনীর ই ডাক পড়বে।আবার বিমান বা জাহাজকে দিন শেষে রসদের জন্য মাটিতেই আসতে হবে,মানে আর্মির সাহায্য নিতেই হবে।অর্থাৎ,যুদ্ধক্ষেত্রে আর্মি,নেভী আর এয়ারফোর্স একে অপরের পরিপূরক।একে অপরকে ছাড়া অসম্পূর্ণ।যদিও আরেকটু সময় লাগবে নতুন বিমান বাংলার আকাশে দেখতে,তবু বিমান বাহিনীর কার্যক্রম শুরুর দিকে ধীর হলেও এখন দ্রুততার সাথেই এগুচ্ছে।নেভী অনেকদূর এগিয়েছে,আর্মিও পিছিয়ে নেই,এখন আশার কথা হল বিমানবাহিনী ও এগুচ্ছে।

#অনেকে মিয়ানমারের হেলিকপ্টারের আকাশ সীমা লংঘনের কথা বলেন।হ্যা এটা সত্যি আকাশ সীমা লংঘিত হয়েছে,কিন্তু আর্ন্তজাতিক নীতি অনুযায়ী আপনি তখনই সে হেলিকপ্টারকে শ্যুট করতে পারবেন না,বরং ওদের সাথে রেডিও কমিউনিকেশন করে বলতে হবে তারা ভুল যায়গায় আছে,এবং যতদ্রুত সম্ভব যেন চলে যায়।যদি নেভিগেশন ফেইল্যার থাকে,এবং আপনি ভুলক্রমে সেটাকে সামরিক উস্কানি ভেবে শুট ডাউন করেও ফেলেন,আন্তর্জাতিক চাপে পড়ে ক্ষমা চাওয়া,ক্ষতিপূরণ দেয়া পর্যন্ত লাগতে পারে।আর হেলিকপ্টার হাইলি মোবাইল এয়ার বর্ন ভেহিকল,দ্রুত এসে দ্রুত চলেও যেতে পারে,আপনি চাইলেও এসে ধাওয়া করতে পারবেন না।এপারে কয়েকশত গজ ক্রস করে সেটি সীমান্ত পার ও হয়ে যাবে,অথচ দেখা যাবে আপনি মিগ-২৯ বা এফ ৭ কে রানওয়ে থেকে ফ্লাই ও করতে পারেননি।কারন ফ্লাইট রেডি আর টেক-অফেও নূন্যতম ৯-১০ মিনিট সময় লাগে তাহলে একটা হেলিকপ্টারের জন্য সীমান্তে কি করবেন?উত্তর হলো কড়া প্রতিবাদ,আন্তর্জাতিক অংগনে এসব ছোট খাটো ঘটনার প্রতিবাদের ইমপ্যাক্ট কিন্তু কম না,তাই সবজায়গায় মায়ানমারের মাথামোটা জেনারেলদের মতো আবেগী হলে তো চলবে না। একমাত্র জাতিসংঘের বিমান,হেলিকপ্টার ছাড়া কোন সামরিক বা বেসামরিক বিমান,হেলিকপ্টার বিনা অনুমতিতে বাংলাদেশের আকাশসীমায় ঢুকতে পারেনা।

#যারা শুধু এফ.এম ৯০ স্যাম আর পয়েন্ট এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান নিয়ে সমালোচনা করেন তাদের বলছি,,লেজার গাইডেড বোমা মারতে হলে আগে টার্গেট নির্ধারন করতে হয়,এরপর নিচে নেমে বোমা ছুড়তে হয় যাতে মিসাইলের একুরেসি ঠিক থাকে,আর নিচে নামা মানেই শর্ট রেঞ্জ মিসাইলের নাগালে এসে যাওয়া,,এরপর একটি মিসাইল লক হয়ে উড়ে যাওয়া স্যাম যে পাইলটের ঘাম ছুটিয়ে দিতে পারে,বাদর নাচ নাচিয়ে ছাড়তে পারে সে ব্যপারে কি কোন সন্দেহ আছে?পাইলট মিসাইল লকের সিগনালেই অস্থির হয়ে যাবে।যদি এফ এম ৯০ জ্যাম ও করা হয়,সেকেন্ডে এয়ার ডিফেন্স গানের কয়েকশত রাউন্ড গুলি যে প্লেনকে ঝাঝড়া করে দিতে পারে তা কি অস্বীকার করতে পারবেন?২০১১ এর আগে তো আমাদের স্যাম ও ছিল না।এখন আছে,আর সামনে আরো আধুনিক স্যাম কিন্তু আসছে,আমরা আক্রমন করব না,বরং তা প্রতিহত করব।

#বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর জাহাজসমুহে ইতিমধ্যে ডাটা লিংক ইন্সটলেশন এর কাজ চলমান,যার মানে হল সাবমেরিন,মেরিটাইম এয়ারক্রাফট,ফ্রিগেট,কর্ভেট,হেলিকপ্টার এসবের মধ্যে যোগাযোগ ব্যবস্থার সমন্বয় এবং সেই সাথে একই রাডার যোগাযোগ ব্যবস্থা গ্রাউন্ড স্টেশনে থাকা রাডারের সাথে সমন্বয়ের মাধ্যমে আমাদের সমুদ্রসীমার বিশাল অঞ্চলের নজরদারী এবং নিরাপত্তা দেয়া।

#ইতিমধ্যে আপনারা জানেন বিমানবাহিনী ৩-৪ টি এটাক ইউ.এ.ভি কিনতে যাচ্ছে যা ২০২০-২০২১ এর মধ্যে সংযুক্ত হবে বলে আশা করা যায়।উল্লেখ্য এসব ইউ.এ.ভি"সি ব্যান্ড"রাডার সিগনেচার বহন করবে কমিউকেশন এর জন্য।উল্লেখ্য আমাদের আপকামিং "বংগবন্ধু স্যাটেলাইট"(বি.
ডি.এস-১)ও একটি "সি ব্যান্ড" ট্রান্সপোন্ডার কমিউনিকেশন স্যাটেলাইট।ড্রোন চালাতে দরকার স্যাটেলাইট আর ভবিষ্যৎ এ ডাটা লিংকের মাধ্যমে আমরা নিজেদের স্যাটেলাইট ও যে ড্রোন পরিচালনা আর সামরিক কমিউনিকেশনে ব্যবহার করব সে নিয়ে কোন সন্দেহ নেই।

#স্যাম সিস্টেম প্রকিউরমেন্ট তথ্যসমূহ বাংলাদেশ সমরাস্ত্র প্রদর্শনী ২০১৭ থেকে সংগ্রহকৃত।

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## Avicenna

monitor said:


> লেখক- Tanvir Ahamed Zeesun
> 
> #২০১৯ সালের মধ্যে যেসব ইন্ট্রিগ্রেটেড এয়ার ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম বাংলাদেশে অর্ন্তভুক্তিকরন করা হবে:
> ১.এফকে-৩ (আর্মি)
> ২.এফএম-৩০০০(আর্মি)
> ৩.এল.ওয়াই-৮০ডি(আর্মি এবং এয়ারফোর্স)(সম্ভবত)
> ৪.অটোমেটেড রাডার কন্ট্রোল এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান।
> ৫.আগের ম্যানুয়াল এয়ার ডিফেন্স গানসমুহের রাডার কন্ট্রোল ব্যবস্থার আধুনিকায়ন এবং পর্যায়ক্রমিক রিপ্লেসমেন্ট।
> ৬.আরো এফ.এম.৯০ শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম।(আর্মি,এয়ারফোর্স)(আমাদের ফ্লাগশিপ বংগবন্ধু ফ্রিগেটেও এফ.এম.৯০ এর নেভাল ভার্সন ব্যবহার করা হয়েছে)
> ৭.আরো ম্যানপ্যাড সংগ্রহকরণ।
> ৮.আরো নতুন রাডার এবং এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি রাডার এন্ড ওয়ার্নিং সিস্টেম (সি-২৯৫এ.ই.ডব্লিউ& সি)সংযোজন।
> 
> ১.কক্সবাজারের রামুতে আপাতত এয়ার ডিফেন্স রাডার এবং এফ এম ৯০ শোর্ডস আছে,এবং আপাতত নতুন এয়ার ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম না আসা অবধি এফ.এম.-৯০ বি ক্যান্টনমেন্ট এবং এফ.এম-৯০ সি এয়ারবেসের নিরাপত্তা দেবে,ভবিষ্যতে এর সাথে মিডিয়াম রেঞ্জ স্যাম যুক্ত হবে।ইতিমধ্যে রাডার এবং রাডারকন্ট্রোল্ড এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান ও মোতায়েন রয়েছে সেখানে।
> 
> কক্সবাজারে নির্মাণাধীন সাবমেরিন বেসের নিরাপত্তার জন্য কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম বসবে।অনেকে রাশিয়ান ডিফেন্স সিস্টেমের কথা বললেও হয়ত সেখানে চাইনিজ কোন প্লাটফর্মই বসানো হবে।(সি-৮০২ সম্ভবত)
> 
> ২.পটুয়াখালীতে আর্মি ক্যান্টনমেন্ট হবে সেটা মোটামুটি আপনারা সবাই জানেন।এর সাথে বাংলাদেশের সবচাইতে বড় নেভী বেস পটুয়াখালীর রামনাবাদে নির্মাণাধীন যাতে নেভীর জন্য আধুনিক এভিয়েশন সুবিধা থাকবে।যার অর্থ নেভীতে আরো নতুন এন্টি সাবমেরিন হেলিকপ্টার,মেরিটাইম এয়ারক্রাফট,মেরি
> টাইম সার্চ এন্ড রেস্কিউ হেলিকপ্টার যুক্ত হচ্ছে।এছাড়া খুব শীঘ্রই বরিশালে এয়ারবেসের নির্মাণ কাজ ও শুরু হবে আশা করা যায়,নেভী বেসের নিরাপত্তার জন্য ইন্ট্রিগ্রেটেড কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স সিস্টেম অপরিহার্য,আর রামনাবাদে যে কোস্টাল ডিফেন্স ফ্যাসিলিটি থাকবে তা বলার অপেক্ষা রাখেনা,ইতিমধ্যে এয়ার ফোর্স ইতালি থেকে ৫০০+ কি:মি: লং রেঞ্জ রেডিয়াস র্যাঞ্জের স্যালেক্স র্যাট-৩১ডিএল এ.ই.এস.এ রাডার ও অর্ডার করেছে যা বরিশালে বসবে।
> 
> ৩.সিলেটের ওসমানী আন্তর্জাতিক বিমানবন্দরের সম্প্রসারণ এর পাশাপাশি তা যাতে সামরিক কাজেও ব্যবহার করা যায় সে কাজ চলমান আছে,মোতায়েন আছে অত্যাধুনিক রাডার যার আওতায় ভারতের ও কিছুটা অংশ রয়েছে এবং যশোর এয়ারপোর্ট এবং এয়ার বেজের আধুনিকায়ন এর পাশাপাশি রাজশাহীতে এয়ারফোর্সের জন্য শাহ-মখদুম এয়ারপোর্ট এর আধুনিকায়ন এর কথা রয়েছে।শাহ মখদুম এয়ারবেজের আধুনিকায়ন সাপেক্ষে সৈয়দপুর এয়ারবেজের আধুনিকায়ন এর কথা রয়েছে।
> 
> ৪.উত্তরাঞ্চলীয় এলাকার নিরাপত্তার জন্য শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম,এয়ার ডিফেন্স রাডার,এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান মোতায়েন রয়েছে,আরো আধুনিকায়ন চলমান রয়েছে।যশোরে এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান,ম্যানপ্যাড বিদ্যমান।সামনে আরো নতুন ম্যানপ্যাড আসবে,বাংলাদেশ অর্ডিন্যান্স ফ্যাক্টরিতে আমরা নিজেরাও লাইসেন্স নিয়ে ম্যানপ্যাড বানাই( এফ.এন-১৬)।বংগবন
> ্ধু এরোনটিক্যাল কমপ্লেক্স ইতোমধ্যে ছোট খাটো টার্গেট+সার্ভেলেন্স ড্রোন,ট্রেনিং এয়ারক্রাফট বানানো নিয়ে গবেষনা করছে।
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> #টাংগাইল এর পাহাড়কাঞ্চনপুরে ইতিমধ্যে বিমানবাহিনীর মাইক্রোওয়েভ রাডার কেন্দ্র বিদ্যমান।এখানে রাডার মেরামত এবং ওভারহলিং ও করা হয়।
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> #অত্যাধুনিক এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি ওয়ার্নিং সিস্টেম (সি ২৯৫ এ.ই.ডব্লিউ&সি) বংগবন্ধু এয়ারবেসে থাকবে যার মাধ্যমে সমগ্র দেশের রাডার ব্যবস্থা ইন্ট্রিগ্রেটেড থাকবে বলে আশা করা যায়।বর্তমানে পুরো দেশ রাডারের আওতায় থাকলেও সামনে সে সক্ষমতা যে আরো বাড়বে এতে সন্দেহ নেই,আর্লি এয়ারবোর্ন ওয়ার্নিং সিস্টেম পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রাম আমাদের পূর্ণ রাডার সিস্টেমের আওতায় আনবে,যেহেতু উঁচু-নীচু পাহাড়ি এলাকা রাডারের মাইক্রোওয়েভ তরঙ্গ প্রচারে বাধা দেয়,আর সে সুযোগটুকুই মায়ানমার বার বার কাজে লাগায় আকাশসীমা লংঘনের জন্য এবং তার জন্যেও ব্যবস্থা হচ্ছে ।এছাড়া যুদ্ধকালীন সময়ে এটি আমাদের মোবাইল রাডার হিসেবেও এটি কাজ করবে।আমাদের দেশের আয়তন হিসেবে আপাতত ১ টি দিয়ে কাজ শুরু হলেও,২ টি এয়ারবোর্ন আর্লি ওয়ার্নিং রাডার সিস্টেম (C-295aew&c)ইজ মোর দ্যান এনাফ।
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> ৫.প্রশ্ন উঠতে পারে বাংলাদেশে এত রাডার কেন?সব স্ট্রাটেজিক জায়গায় রাডার,স্যাম সিস্টেম এর চাইতে রাডার সিস্টেম ই বেশী।কেন বেশি?
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> #বাস্তব কথা হচ্ছে রাডার হচ্ছে চোখের মতো,ছোট ছোট ডট যা আপনার আমার কাছে কিছুই না,তা দিয়েই শত্রু বিমান,ড্রোন,মিস
> াইল খুজে বের করে সামরিক বাহিনী।শান্তিকালীন সময়ে বেসামরিক প্যান্সেঞ্জার,কার্গো বিমান পরিচালনা,আবহাওয়া পূর্বাভাস দেয়া (ইতিমধ্যে আবহাওয়ার জন্য বিমান বাহিনীর ডপলার পালস্ রাডার আছে,এবং আরো নতুন নতুন ডপলার পালস্ রাডার কেনা হচ্ছে),আর সামরিক ক্ষেত্রে নজরদারীর প্রধান উপাদানই হলো রাডার,সামনে আসা মিগ-৩৫,সু ৩০ এর মতো বিমানের লাইফলাইন ই হবে এসব রাডার,,যুদ্ধকালীন সময়ে শত্রুদেশের প্রথম টার্গেটই হবে এসব রাডার ব্যবস্থা অকার্যকর করে দেয়া,,আকাশ দখলে রাখতে শুধু স্যাম,আর বিমানই থাকলে চলে না।বরং দরকার পরে অত্যাধুনিক রাডারের,কারন অন্ধকারে ঢিল মেরে কতটা লাভ হবে,যদি আপনি শত্রু কোথায় দেখতেই না পান?তখন কাজে আসবে AEW&C
> ৬.ইন্ট্রিগেটেড আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষার অন্যতম শর্ত হলো স্যাম সিস্টেম,আর সেটা হয় আকাশের স্তর ভেদে,যেমন:ভেরি শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম বা ম্যানপ্যাড ৪-৬ কি:মি রেডিয়াস,শর্ট রেঞ্জ স্যাম ১৫-২০ কি:মি,শর্ট টু মিডিয়াম ২০-৫০ কি:মি:,মিডিয়াম টু লং ৭০-১১০ কি:মি,লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম ১৩০-২০০+ কি:মি,এবং এর সাথে বিভিন্ন ক্যালিবারের এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান অন্তর্ভুক্ত।এখন প্রশ্ন উঠতে পারে বাংলাদেশ একেবারে লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম কিনছে না কেন??জাতিসংঘে আমাদের স্বাক্ষরিত নিরস্ত্রীকরণ সনদ অনুযায়ী আমরা ৩০০+ কি:মি: রেঞ্জের অস্ত্র কিনতে পারব না( এটা খারাপ দিক না,আমরা যুদ্ধবাজ বা পারমানবিক শক্তিধর দেশ না,এই ছোট দেশে ১৬+ কোটি লোক বাস করে,যুদ্ধ হলে কতটা ক্ষতি হবে নিশ্চয়ই ভাবতে পারছেন..দেশের সামরিকিকরন করতে গিয়ে উত্তর কোরিয়া করে ফেলবেন দেশকে?দেশের অভ্যন্তরীণ সমস্যার তো অভাব নেই),তেমনিভাবে শুধু লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম মোতায়েন করলেও খেয়াল রাখতে হবে তা যেন শান্তিকালীন সময়ে পার্শ্ববর্তী দেশের আকাশ-সীমা লংঘন না করে(এটা আন্তর্জাতিক নিয়ম,আর তা মানতেই হবে),এর মানে এস ৪০০ কিনলেও তা কিন্তু চট্টগ্রামের আশেপাশে মায়ানমার বর্ডারের কাছেও রাখতে পারবেন না।এমনভাবে রাখতে হবে যাতে সেই ৩০০কি:মি যেন বাংলাদেশের আকাশসীমার বাইরে না যায়,,বেশ জটিল হিসেব।আর যদি কোন কারনে লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম ফেইল করে তবে আপনার নিরাপত্তা কি?ছোট খাটো সার্ভিলেন্স ড্রোন নামানোর জন্য লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম ইউজ করা মানে ব্যপারটা"মশা মারতে কামান দাগার মতো হয়ে যায় না"??কয়েকহাজার ডলারের ডি.জে.আই ম্যাভিক নামাতে তখন কয়েকলক্ষ ডলারের মিসাইলই ব্যবহার করতে হবে।
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> #এই জন্যই স্তরে স্তরে আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষার ব্যবস্থা করা হয় যাতে একটি সিস্টেম ফেইল করলে অপরটি কার্যকর হয় এবং আপনি নিরাপদ থাকেন।প্রথমে শর্ট,এরপর মিডিয়াম এবং সবশেষে লং রেঞ্জ স্যাম আর যে দেশ আক্রমন করবে তারা প্রথমেই সিভিলিয়ানদের টার্গেট করবে না,বরং প্রথম টার্গেটই হবে গুরুত্বপূর্ণ সামরিক স্থাপনা এবং দেশের গুরুত্বপূর্ণ অর্থনৈতিক অঞ্চল,যাতে আপনার সামরিক বাহিনী এবং অর্থনীতি পংগু হয়ে যায় এবং লং টার্মে আপনি যুদ্ধ করতে না পারেন।এক একটি বোমা,বিমানের ও দাম আছে,আক্রমণকারী দেশ চাইবে না তার মিলিয়ন ডলারের গোলাবারুদ,বিমান,পাইলট এবং ক্রু অহেতুক বিপদে পড়ুক।পাল্টা প্রতিরোধ আর আক্রমনের স্বীকার হউক।যুদ্ধ যতই দ্রুত আর কম খরচে শেষ করা যায় ততই মংগল আর সেই জন্যই যুদ্ধে সামরিক স্থাপনা প্রথমেই গুড়িয়ে দেয়া হয় যাতে আক্রান্ত দেশ প্রতিরোধ গড়তে না পারে।
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> #আমাদের এয়ারস্পেস যথেষ্ট ছোট,যশোর এয়ারবেজ থেকে ফ্লাই করে একটি মিগ২৯ এর চট্টগ্রাম আসতে ৮-৯ মিনিট সময় লাগে। আমাদের সমুদ্রসীমা মোটামুটিভাবে আমাদের দেশের মোট আয়তনের চাইতে একটু কম,সেই হিসেবে ২০২৫ সাল অনুযায়ী ১-২ স্কোয়াড্রন এফ৭ বিজি/বিজি১ (লাইট এটাকিং+ইন্টারসেপ্টর),১ স্কোয়াড্রন মিগ ২৯(এয়ার সুপিরিয়রিটি+লাইট এম.আর.সি.এ),২-৩ স্কোয়াড্রন মিগ ৩৫(মিডিয়াম এম.আর.সি.এ),১ স্কোয়াড্রন সু ৩০ (হেভী এম.আর.সি.এ) যথেষ্ঠ আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষার জন্য,,এবং এ সংখ্যা ফোর্সেস গোল ২০৩০ এর আওতায় আরো বাড়বে।আর এর সাথে ট্রেনিং এয়ারক্রাফট যেমন -কে৮w,ইয়াক১৩০ এসব দিয়ে লাইট এটাক করা সম্ভব।এমনি এমনি তো এসব আর মিসাইল ক্যারি করেনা ।সামনে আরো কে৮,ইয়াক ১৩০ আসবে,,হয়ত পিটি৬ এর বদলে ইয়াক ১৫২ ও আনা হতে পারে কখনো।
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> এছাড়া সি১৩০,এএন৩২,সি ২৯৫w(এএন৩২ ফ্লিট এর ভবিষ্যৎ রিপ্লেসমেন্ট, সংখ্যা ৩-৪ টি) এম.আই.১৭১ শাহ ট্রান্সপোর্ট হেলি (লাইট এটাক ও করতে পারে),(অলরেডি আছে,আরো নতুন অর্ডার হচ্ছে এবং হবে)এম.আই ৩৫( এটাক হেলি এয়ার ফোর্সের জন্য),(২০১৯-২০২০ সালে যুক্ত হতে পারে)এম.আই ২৮ এন.এম (ডেডিকেটেড হেভী এটাক হেলি আর্মির জন্য) এসব তো আসছেই (২০২১ এর পরে)
> 
> #আর এখনই এর চাইতে বড় এয়ারফোর্স এর মানে হলো অতিরিক্ত খরচ,তাই বলা যায় আমাদের এয়ারফোর্স এখন সঠিক পথেই আছে,দেশের সামরিক ব্যয় অর্থনীতি দ্বারা নিয়ন্ত্রিত,অর্থনীতি ভাল হবার মানে সামরিক ব্যয় বৃদ্ধি,আর আরো আধুনিক অস্ত্র এবং প্রযুক্তি সংগ্রহের সম্ভাবনা।তাই সবাই ট্যাক্স দিন,অর্থের অপচয় কমান আর দেশপ্রেমিক হউন।যাতে অর্থনীতি ভাল হয়,টাকা থাকলে সামরিক আধুনিকায়ন কোন ব্যপারই না।
> 
> #আধুনিক যুদ্ধে আকাশ যার দখলে,বিজয় ও তার দখলে।আর্টিলারি যেমন রণাঙ্গনের বিধাতা,আধুনিক বিমান বাহিনীও তেমনি মুক্ত আকাশের বিধাতা এবং সেই সাথে স্থল বাহিনীর সহায়তাকারী।যখনই আর্মি গ্রাউন্ডে পারবেনা,বিমানবাহিনীর ই ডাক পড়বে,সাগরে নেভীর পেট্রলিং এ নেভাল এভিয়েশনের পাশাপাশি বিমানবাহিনীর ই ডাক পড়বে।আবার বিমান বা জাহাজকে দিন শেষে রসদের জন্য মাটিতেই আসতে হবে,মানে আর্মির সাহায্য নিতেই হবে।অর্থাৎ,যুদ্ধক্ষেত্রে আর্মি,নেভী আর এয়ারফোর্স একে অপরের পরিপূরক।একে অপরকে ছাড়া অসম্পূর্ণ।যদিও আরেকটু সময় লাগবে নতুন বিমান বাংলার আকাশে দেখতে,তবু বিমান বাহিনীর কার্যক্রম শুরুর দিকে ধীর হলেও এখন দ্রুততার সাথেই এগুচ্ছে।নেভী অনেকদূর এগিয়েছে,আর্মিও পিছিয়ে নেই,এখন আশার কথা হল বিমানবাহিনী ও এগুচ্ছে।
> 
> #অনেকে মিয়ানমারের হেলিকপ্টারের আকাশ সীমা লংঘনের কথা বলেন।হ্যা এটা সত্যি আকাশ সীমা লংঘিত হয়েছে,কিন্তু আর্ন্তজাতিক নীতি অনুযায়ী আপনি তখনই সে হেলিকপ্টারকে শ্যুট করতে পারবেন না,বরং ওদের সাথে রেডিও কমিউনিকেশন করে বলতে হবে তারা ভুল যায়গায় আছে,এবং যতদ্রুত সম্ভব যেন চলে যায়।যদি নেভিগেশন ফেইল্যার থাকে,এবং আপনি ভুলক্রমে সেটাকে সামরিক উস্কানি ভেবে শুট ডাউন করেও ফেলেন,আন্তর্জাতিক চাপে পড়ে ক্ষমা চাওয়া,ক্ষতিপূরণ দেয়া পর্যন্ত লাগতে পারে।আর হেলিকপ্টার হাইলি মোবাইল এয়ার বর্ন ভেহিকল,দ্রুত এসে দ্রুত চলেও যেতে পারে,আপনি চাইলেও এসে ধাওয়া করতে পারবেন না।এপারে কয়েকশত গজ ক্রস করে সেটি সীমান্ত পার ও হয়ে যাবে,অথচ দেখা যাবে আপনি মিগ-২৯ বা এফ ৭ কে রানওয়ে থেকে ফ্লাই ও করতে পারেননি।কারন ফ্লাইট রেডি আর টেক-অফেও নূন্যতম ৯-১০ মিনিট সময় লাগে তাহলে একটা হেলিকপ্টারের জন্য সীমান্তে কি করবেন?উত্তর হলো কড়া প্রতিবাদ,আন্তর্জাতিক অংগনে এসব ছোট খাটো ঘটনার প্রতিবাদের ইমপ্যাক্ট কিন্তু কম না,তাই সবজায়গায় মায়ানমারের মাথামোটা জেনারেলদের মতো আবেগী হলে তো চলবে না। একমাত্র জাতিসংঘের বিমান,হেলিকপ্টার ছাড়া কোন সামরিক বা বেসামরিক বিমান,হেলিকপ্টার বিনা অনুমতিতে বাংলাদেশের আকাশসীমায় ঢুকতে পারেনা।
> 
> #যারা শুধু এফ.এম ৯০ স্যাম আর পয়েন্ট এয়ার ডিফেন্স গান নিয়ে সমালোচনা করেন তাদের বলছি,,লেজার গাইডেড বোমা মারতে হলে আগে টার্গেট নির্ধারন করতে হয়,এরপর নিচে নেমে বোমা ছুড়তে হয় যাতে মিসাইলের একুরেসি ঠিক থাকে,আর নিচে নামা মানেই শর্ট রেঞ্জ মিসাইলের নাগালে এসে যাওয়া,,এরপর একটি মিসাইল লক হয়ে উড়ে যাওয়া স্যাম যে পাইলটের ঘাম ছুটিয়ে দিতে পারে,বাদর নাচ নাচিয়ে ছাড়তে পারে সে ব্যপারে কি কোন সন্দেহ আছে?পাইলট মিসাইল লকের সিগনালেই অস্থির হয়ে যাবে।যদি এফ এম ৯০ জ্যাম ও করা হয়,সেকেন্ডে এয়ার ডিফেন্স গানের কয়েকশত রাউন্ড গুলি যে প্লেনকে ঝাঝড়া করে দিতে পারে তা কি অস্বীকার করতে পারবেন?২০১১ এর আগে তো আমাদের স্যাম ও ছিল না।এখন আছে,আর সামনে আরো আধুনিক স্যাম কিন্তু আসছে,আমরা আক্রমন করব না,বরং তা প্রতিহত করব।
> 
> #বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর জাহাজসমুহে ইতিমধ্যে ডাটা লিংক ইন্সটলেশন এর কাজ চলমান,যার মানে হল সাবমেরিন,মেরিটাইম এয়ারক্রাফট,ফ্রিগেট,কর্ভেট,হেলিকপ্টার এসবের মধ্যে যোগাযোগ ব্যবস্থার সমন্বয় এবং সেই সাথে একই রাডার যোগাযোগ ব্যবস্থা গ্রাউন্ড স্টেশনে থাকা রাডারের সাথে সমন্বয়ের মাধ্যমে আমাদের সমুদ্রসীমার বিশাল অঞ্চলের নজরদারী এবং নিরাপত্তা দেয়া।
> 
> #ইতিমধ্যে আপনারা জানেন বিমানবাহিনী ৩-৪ টি এটাক ইউ.এ.ভি কিনতে যাচ্ছে যা ২০২০-২০২১ এর মধ্যে সংযুক্ত হবে বলে আশা করা যায়।উল্লেখ্য এসব ইউ.এ.ভি"সি ব্যান্ড"রাডার সিগনেচার বহন করবে কমিউকেশন এর জন্য।উল্লেখ্য আমাদের আপকামিং "বংগবন্ধু স্যাটেলাইট"(বি.
> ডি.এস-১)ও একটি "সি ব্যান্ড" ট্রান্সপোন্ডার কমিউনিকেশন স্যাটেলাইট।ড্রোন চালাতে দরকার স্যাটেলাইট আর ভবিষ্যৎ এ ডাটা লিংকের মাধ্যমে আমরা নিজেদের স্যাটেলাইট ও যে ড্রোন পরিচালনা আর সামরিক কমিউনিকেশনে ব্যবহার করব সে নিয়ে কোন সন্দেহ নেই।
> 
> #স্যাম সিস্টেম প্রকিউরমেন্ট তথ্যসমূহ বাংলাদেশ সমরাস্ত্র প্রদর্শনী ২০১৭ থেকে সংগ্রহকৃত।



Please post in English. Or translate.


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## monitor

Avicenna said:


> Please post in English. Or translate.



use google translate.

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## Avicenna

monitor said:


> use google translate.



I just did. Thanks google!

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## Bilal9

This is the part I like the best so far.

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## UKBengali

Zabaniyah said:


> Read please:
> 
> 
> Just because the report is dated 1999, doesn't mean the events took place at that time. Weapon assessments take time. It's like shopping for groceries or playing a game of Command & Conquer as a lot of guys here think.




@madokafc ; @Avicenna : @warrantofficer 

I have to disagree here.

Remember it was the 1996-2001 Awami League regime that wanted 27 F-16s in their time in power in that period.

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## monitor

Bangladesh air force is buying S-350E air defense system from Russia. It already shown in arms show and in anirban. Air force were close to buying LY-80 but as S-350E shown better performance and similarities with S-400 this system was chosen.

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## Avicenna

monitor said:


> Bangladesh air force is buying S-350E air defense system from Russia. It already shown in arms show and in anirban. Air force were close to buying LY-80 but as S-350E shown better performance and similarities with S-400 this system was chosen.



What is the source?


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## monitor

*Russia ready to offer S-350E missile system to foreign country 13008171*
POSTED ON WEDNESDAY, 30 AUGUST 2017 07:38



 
*Military Defense Industry Technology - S-350E Vityaz*


*Russian defense industry ready to offer new S-350E Vityaz air defense missile systems to foreign customers.*
Russia will offer to foreign customers already next year the latest air defense *S-350E Vityaz* systems. They are more compact and cheaper compared to *S-400* but enjoy all *S-300* capabilities and can engage in close combat without additional defense by *Pantsir*and *Tor* armaments. Experts believe that after Vityaz completes tests and becomes operational it will oust *Buk* missile complexes from foreign markets, Izvestia daily reported.

*




Battery of S-350E Vityaz air defense missile system at MAKS 2013, Airshow in Russia.*

The Almaz-Antey Concern presented at the Army-2017 forum the export version of the latest Russian anti-aircraft and anti-missile *S-350 Vityaz* complex. Its Deputy Director General for foreign economic activities Vyacheslav Dzirkaln said government acceptance tests of the complex are to be completed by the end of the year. At present the concern is accumulating data on combat launches to intercept real targets in various conditions. Test trials of three new anti-aircraft guided missiles for the complex are close to completion as well.

The S-350 borrowed the experience accumulated during the design of the anti-aircraft missile complex RM-SAM for South Korea. In particular, Russian experts obtained access to foreign technologies in hardware components. By the architecture the Korean complex is similar to Vityaz and uses the same radar while missiles and launchers are Korean.

In order to utilize the experience a domestic system was created and navymen immediately welcomed its compact size and universal characteristics. The fleet ordered a seaborne anti-aircraft system called Redut for mounting on frigates of the distant sea zone.

The ground-based Vityaz is designated for air defense of headquarters, administrative centers and enterprises. It does not fire in motion but its deployment time is only five minutes. It can shoot down aerodynamic targets, aircraft or cruise missiles at a distance of up to 60 kilometers and altitudes from 10 meters to 30 kilometers. The complex shoots down ballistic targets at a distance of up to 30 kilometers and an altitude of up to 25 kilometers.

The base-case Vityaz comprises a combat control point, multifunctional 50N6E radar and a launcher. They are mounted on a cross-country wheeled chassis. S-350 advantages include compact size and a big number of missiles (12) on one launcher. There can be up to eight weapons in one squadron.

Besides, Vityaz does not need protection as it can fight all air attack means by itself. It has three types of missiles for that - small, medium and intermediate range. The complex can simultaneously target up to 32 missiles (provided the second radar). To ensure safety of the crew complex elements can be deployed at a distance of up to two kilometers from each other.

*




TEL (Transporter Erector Launcher) of S-350E Vityaz at MAKS 2013, Airshow in Russia.*

The combat crew of *S-350E* is only three men like with *S-400*. The operation is fully automatic. The crew only deploys the complex and controls the combat engagement which decreases requirements to the skills of the men.

Vityaz can be of interest to foreign customers as it surpasses *S-300*characteristics. One complex actually ensures the creation of an in-depth air defense.

Expert Andrei Frolov told Izvestia that after Vityaz completes government acceptance tests and becomes operational it can be a desirable product for foreign customers and will compete with Buk complexes.

"Vityaz is a principally new complex and not a modernization of the Soviet-era system. Therefore, the S-350E surpasses even *Buk-M3*. Besides, it will be cheaper than *S-400*. All that can attract major foreign buyers," he said.

Frolov believes the new complex can be acquired by countries which fear attacks by drones and cruise missiles but have limited finances.

"The buyers will get a compact small and medium-range complex with anti-missile defense capabilities. It is important for countries which want to obtain a fully-fledged anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense system without major expenses. Potential buyers include India, Algeria, Armenia, Vietnam and those Middle East countries which cannot afford *S-400*," he said.

The *S-350 Vityaz* design began in 2007 when there was a need for a new anti-aircraft weapon for the ground forces and the navy. The complex was publicly demonstrated for the first time in 2013. However problems with the design of new missiles postponed the commissioning of the complex, Izvestia said.



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Avicenna said:


> What is the source?



Bdmilitary

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## Avicenna

Great news if it really materializes!

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## ghost250

source..P

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## monitor

Bangladesh air force bought another two battery of FM-90 SHOARD. Air force already have 5-6 Battery of B version but this two will be latest C version with better radar with more range, strong anti jamming technology.

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## Avicenna

I thought the MRCA tender was for 8+4 examples. Where are you getting 16 MIG-35?


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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> I thought the MRCA tender was for 8+4 examples. Where are you getting 16 MIG-35?


there is a difference between MMRCA and MRCA bro

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> I thought the MRCA tender was for 8+4 examples. Where are you getting 16 MIG-35?



Those 16 might come under G2G deal as replacement of F-7.


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## Avicenna

BDforever said:


> there is a difference between MMRCA and MRCA bro



Please explain?

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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> Please explain?


MRCA is for long range heavy duty and MMRCA for short range air defence duty.

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Please explain?



MMRCA= Medium Multi role Combat Aircraft. Ex- J10, Mig 35
MRCA= Multi role Combat Aircraft. Ex- Su 30, Su 35

BAF will buy long range fighter like Su 30/35 for deep strike, maritime strike as the tender is already afloat as well as replacing our F-7 fleet with medium range fighter like J-10/Mig-35

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## Nike

Its 2018 already

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## TopCat

madokafc said:


> Its 2018 already


Its south asian bureaucracy. But once the first buy is done the subsequent buyings are very quick for the same item.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

monitor said:


> View attachment 445953
> 
> Bangladesh air force bought another two battery of FM-90 SHOARD. Air force already have 5-6 Battery of B version but this two will be latest C version with better radar with more range, strong anti jamming technology.
> 
> View attachment 445958


Khali list list r list, shudhu shunei jacchi 5 years dhore BAF ar jonno ai fighter oi fighter kinteche. kochu kinche 10 bochore.jedin banglar akashe gorjon tulbe shedin believe korbo. amader faka buli bondho kora uchit. amra chinta korei sheta news baniye feli. 2021 shaler age mone hoi na kono MRCA ashbe.

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## The Ronin

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Khali list list r list, shudhu shunei jacchi 5 years dhore BAF ar jonno ai fighter oi fighter kinteche. kochu kinche 10 bochore.jedin banglar akashe gorjon tulbe shedin believe korbo. amader faka buli bondho kora uchit. amra chinta korei sheta news baniye feli. 2021 shaler age mone hoi na kono MRCA ashbe.



Who bought the F-7bgi as stop gap and Yak-130s?? You??

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## ghost250

locally overhauled hip nd f-7BG..

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## bluesky

F-7 BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far. In fact, F-7 BGI is a very good stop gap 3.5+ option for BAF while run upto the 4th Gen Fighters.

1) F-7 BGI has a speed of *Mach 2.2*
2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
3) Full glass cockpit.
4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with *86 km+ Range. 37km is the BVR.* It can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
6) F-7 BGI can carry *C-704 Antiship Missiles* (Therefore maritime also possible)
7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (*82 kN) thrust*
8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the *70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .*
9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
11) Service ceiling: *17,500 m* (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
12) 3 Multi functional *HUD displays and Hotas*.
13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.

I find people who regularly criticize F-7 planes as obsolete. The above data sow it is not. In fact, it has more capabilities than the JF-17. Can someone come up with comparing data of JF-17 and tell us why BAF should discard F-7 and induct JF-17? Gripen and other Russian frames are different.

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## The Ronin

bluesky said:


> 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles





bluesky said:


> F-7 BGI can carry *C-704 Antiship Missiles*



What?? No, these are wrong info. It has 5 hard point just like others, can't carry any anti-ship missiles.

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## bluesky

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7-specs.htm

*Jianjiji J-7/F-7 Specifications*
Role Interceptor; ground attack; trainer
Designer Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau, Soviet Union/Russia
611 Aircraft Design Institute, Chengdu
Manufacturer Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (J-7) 
Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (J-7I, J-7II, J-7C/D, J-7E/G, J-7FS) 
Guizhou Aviation Industrial Group Co. (J-7C/D, JJ-7/FT-7)
Variants
J-7
J-7I F-7A
J-7II F-7B
F-7BG F-7M Airguard
F-7MP Skybolt
F-7P Skybolt
J-7IIA
J-7III J-7C
J-7IV J-7D
J-7E F-7N
J-7G F-7MG
F-7PG
J-7IIH J-7H
J-7FS
JJ-7 FT-7
BG = Bangladesh
NI = Nigeria
P = Pakistan
S = Sri Lanka
First flight
Jan 1966 J-7
Jun 1969 J-7I
Dec 1978 J-7II
Aug 1983 F-7M
07 Mar 1984 J-7IIA
26 Apr 1984 J-7C
09 Jun 1988 F-7MP
May 1990 J-7E
20 Aug 1991 J-7D
Jun 2002 J-7G
CREW J-7 (F-7) One 
JJ-7 (FT-7) Two
DIMENSIONS
Length 14.855m (J-7II); 
15.591m (J-7C);
14.885m (J-7E)
Wingspan 7.154m (J-7II, J-7C);
8.32m (J-7E)
Height 4.103m (J-7II/E);
4.251m (J-7C)
Wing area 23 square meters
WEIGHTS
Empty 5,275kg
Normal take-off 7,370kg (J-7II); 
7,680kg (J-7E)
Max take-off 9,100kg (J-7E)
Normal landing 5,480kg (J-7II)
Fuel capacity 2,080kg (J-7II); 
4,165kg (J-7E)
PROPULSION
Powerplant 1X Liyang WP-7 (J-7I)
1X Liyang WP-7B (J-7II, F-7A/B)
1X Liyang WP-7N (F-7MG/PG) 
1X Liyang WP-13F (J-7C/D, J-7E/G, F-7MG/PG)
Thrust (dry) WP-7: 38.245kN (3,900kg; 8,598lb)
WP-13F: 44.1kN (4,497kg, 9,914lb) 
Thrust (afterburning) WP-7: 56.388kN (5,750kg; 12,677lb)
WP-7B: 58.8kN (5,996kg; 13,219lb)
WP-7N: 59.83kN (6,100kg; 13,450lb)
WP-13F: 65.17kN (6,645kg; 14,650lb)
PERFORMANCE
Max level speed Mach 2.0 (high altitude)
Max climb rate 180m/s (sea-level)
Service ceiling 18,800m
Range (without refuelling)
Ferry range 1,740km (two AAMs and two 480 liter drop tanks); or 
2,230km (three 720 liter drop tanks)
Combat radius
45 minutes flight and 5 minutes combat Loitering two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks 11,000m altitude
650km Long-range interception two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks Mach 1.5 speed
600km Long-range interdiction two 150kg bombs three 720 liter drop tanks hi-lo-hi
370km Close air support four rocket launchers no drop tank lo-lo-lo
In-flight refuelling No
G limit +7G
ARMAMENT
Fixed weapon

J-7: 1X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds

J-7I: 2X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds per gun

J-7C/D: 2X Type 23-III (23mm), 100 rounds per gun

J-7E: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)

F-7MG: 2X Type 30-I (30mm)

J-7G: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)
Externalhardpoints 3 (J-7/I); or
5 (J-7C/D/E)
Air-to-air missiles

PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R550, AIM-9

Bomb 250/500kg free-bomb

Other 57/90/130mm unguided rocket launcher
AVIONICS

Flight control WL-7 radio compass; 0101 HR A2 altitude radio altimeter; LTC-2 horizon gyro; XS-6 marker beacon receiver; VOR; Distance Measure Equipment (DME); Instrument Landing System (ILS)

Fire control SM-3A optical sight (J-7); AFS-3A lead-computing sight with Type 222 ranging radar input (J-7II); GEC-Marconi Type 956 HUD, and weapon-aiming computer system with input from the GEC-Marconi Type 226 'Skyranger' ranging radar (F-7M/P); or Italian Grifo-7 fire-control radar (F-7PG).

Countermeasures South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8602 RWR interfaced with the South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8605 internal radar noise jammer and China National Import and Export Corporation GT-1 chaff/flare dispenser, and Type 602 'Odd Rods' IFF.


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7-specs.htm
> 
> *Jianjiji J-7/F-7 Specifications*
> Role Interceptor; ground attack; trainer
> Designer Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau, Soviet Union/Russia
> 611 Aircraft Design Institute, Chengdu
> Manufacturer Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (J-7)
> Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (J-7I, J-7II, J-7C/D, J-7E/G, J-7FS)
> Guizhou Aviation Industrial Group Co. (J-7C/D, JJ-7/FT-7)
> Variants
> J-7
> J-7I F-7A
> J-7II F-7B
> F-7BG F-7M Airguard
> F-7MP Skybolt
> F-7P Skybolt
> J-7IIA
> J-7III J-7C
> J-7IV J-7D
> J-7E F-7N
> J-7G F-7MG
> F-7PG
> J-7IIH J-7H
> J-7FS
> JJ-7 FT-7
> BG = Bangladesh
> NI = Nigeria
> P = Pakistan
> S = Sri Lanka
> First flight
> Jan 1966 J-7
> Jun 1969 J-7I
> Dec 1978 J-7II
> Aug 1983 F-7M
> 07 Mar 1984 J-7IIA
> 26 Apr 1984 J-7C
> 09 Jun 1988 F-7MP
> May 1990 J-7E
> 20 Aug 1991 J-7D
> Jun 2002 J-7G
> CREW J-7 (F-7) One
> JJ-7 (FT-7) Two
> DIMENSIONS
> Length 14.855m (J-7II);
> 15.591m (J-7C);
> 14.885m (J-7E)
> Wingspan 7.154m (J-7II, J-7C);
> 8.32m (J-7E)
> Height 4.103m (J-7II/E);
> 4.251m (J-7C)
> Wing area 23 square meters
> WEIGHTS
> Empty 5,275kg
> Normal take-off 7,370kg (J-7II);
> 7,680kg (J-7E)
> Max take-off 9,100kg (J-7E)
> Normal landing 5,480kg (J-7II)
> Fuel capacity 2,080kg (J-7II);
> 4,165kg (J-7E)
> PROPULSION
> Powerplant 1X Liyang WP-7 (J-7I)
> 1X Liyang WP-7B (J-7II, F-7A/B)
> 1X Liyang WP-7N (F-7MG/PG)
> 1X Liyang WP-13F (J-7C/D, J-7E/G, F-7MG/PG)
> Thrust (dry) WP-7: 38.245kN (3,900kg; 8,598lb)
> WP-13F: 44.1kN (4,497kg, 9,914lb)
> Thrust (afterburning) WP-7: 56.388kN (5,750kg; 12,677lb)
> WP-7B: 58.8kN (5,996kg; 13,219lb)
> WP-7N: 59.83kN (6,100kg; 13,450lb)
> WP-13F: 65.17kN (6,645kg; 14,650lb)
> PERFORMANCE
> Max level speed Mach 2.0 (high altitude)
> Max climb rate 180m/s (sea-level)
> Service ceiling 18,800m
> Range (without refuelling)
> Ferry range 1,740km (two AAMs and two 480 liter drop tanks); or
> 2,230km (three 720 liter drop tanks)
> Combat radius
> 45 minutes flight and 5 minutes combat Loitering two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks 11,000m altitude
> 650km Long-range interception two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks Mach 1.5 speed
> 600km Long-range interdiction two 150kg bombs three 720 liter drop tanks hi-lo-hi
> 370km Close air support four rocket launchers no drop tank lo-lo-lo
> In-flight refuelling No
> G limit +7G
> ARMAMENT
> Fixed weapon
> 
> J-7: 1X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds
> 
> J-7I: 2X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds per gun
> 
> J-7C/D: 2X Type 23-III (23mm), 100 rounds per gun
> 
> J-7E: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)
> 
> F-7MG: 2X Type 30-I (30mm)
> 
> J-7G: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)
> Externalhardpoints 3 (J-7/I); or
> 5 (J-7C/D/E)
> Air-to-air missiles
> 
> PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R550, AIM-9
> 
> Bomb 250/500kg free-bomb
> 
> Other 57/90/130mm unguided rocket launcher
> AVIONICS
> 
> Flight control WL-7 radio compass; 0101 HR A2 altitude radio altimeter; LTC-2 horizon gyro; XS-6 marker beacon receiver; VOR; Distance Measure Equipment (DME); Instrument Landing System (ILS)
> 
> Fire control SM-3A optical sight (J-7); AFS-3A lead-computing sight with Type 222 ranging radar input (J-7II); GEC-Marconi Type 956 HUD, and weapon-aiming computer system with input from the GEC-Marconi Type 226 'Skyranger' ranging radar (F-7M/P); or Italian Grifo-7 fire-control radar (F-7PG).
> 
> Countermeasures South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8602 RWR interfaced with the South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8605 internal radar noise jammer and China National Import and Export Corporation GT-1 chaff/flare dispenser, and Type 602 'Odd Rods' IFF.



I think you stated before you are not that familiar with military aviaiton.

That being said, I would take a JF-17 block 2 over a F-7BGI any day of the week.

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## Tanveer666

bluesky said:


> F-7 BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far. In fact, F-7 BGI is a very good stop gap 3.5+ option for BAF while run upto the 4th Gen Fighters.
> 
> 1) F-7 BGI has a speed of *Mach 2.2*
> 2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
> 3) Full glass cockpit.
> 4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
> 5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with *86 km+ Range. 37km is the BVR.* It can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
> 6) F-7 BGI can carry *C-704 Antiship Missiles* (Therefore maritime also possible)
> 7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (*82 kN) thrust*
> 8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the *70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .*
> 9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
> 10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
> 11) Service ceiling: *17,500 m* (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
> 12) 3 Multi functional *HUD displays and Hotas*.
> 13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
> 
> I find people who regularly criticize F-7 planes as obsolete. The above data sow it is not. In fact, it has more capabilities than the JF-17. Can someone come up with comparing data of JF-17 and tell us why BAF should discard F-7 and induct JF-17? Gripen and other Russian frames are different.




Any credible source to back all this up?


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> I think you stated before you are not that familiar with military aviaiton.
> 
> That being said, I would take a JF-17 block 2 over a F-7BGI any day of the week.


They are asking 35 million for a JF-17. I will buy 4 F-7 instead of a single JF-17 any day of the week

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## AMG_12

TopCat said:


> They are asking 35 million for a JF-17. I will buy 4 F-7 instead of a single JF-17 any day of the week


You're not only paying for the aircraft but the generation gap as well. Again, JF-17 is one of the only 4th generation fighter whose operation costs are extremely low. So all in all, it's a very good investment.

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## bdslph

TopCat said:


> They are asking 35 million for a JF-17. I will buy 4 F-7 instead of a single JF-17 any day of the week



there is a huge difference between Jf17 and F7


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## TopCat

bdslph said:


> there is a huge difference between Jf17 and F7


For 35 million we have many more options

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> I think you stated before you are not that familiar with military aviaiton.
> 
> That being said, I would take a JF-17 block 2 over a F-7BGI any day of the week.


Yes, i am not familiar with military aviation. But, can you say why a 35 million dollar JF-17 would be better than a 15 million dollar F-7BGI when the former has many issues including the drag problem? Even its speed is lower than the latter (1.6 mach vs 2.0).


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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> Yes, i am not familiar with military aviation. But, can you say why a 35 million dollar JF-17 would be better than a 15 million dollar F-7BGI when the former has many issues including the drag problem? Even its speed is lower than the latter (1.6 mach vs 2.0).


The only thing about jf-17 it is capable of firing most of the chinese weapons. Thats about it.

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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> Yes, i am not familiar with military aviation. But, can you say why a 35 million dollar JF-17 would be better than a 15 million dollar F-7BGI when the former has many issues including the drag problem? Even its speed is lower than the latter (1.6 mach vs 2.0).



Firstly, lets look at the time frame of the F-7BG and F-7BGI purchases. The BGs were delivered in 2006 and the BGI in 2013 approximately. At that time, the JF-17 was just enterting block 2 phase production. I would characterize the block 1 as an incomplete product. Additionally, your right, the price difference is tremendous and at that point in time I can see the wisdom of getting the F-7s, not to mention familiarity with the platform, ease of integration along the lines of training and maintainence. So I'm not making the arguement that BAF should have bought the JF-17 instead of the F-7 IN THAT TIME FRAME. 

However, in comparing the 2 platforms in 2018 and also generally speaking, I would absolutely want the JF-17 block 2 and above over the F-7BGI.

Firstly, the proof is in the pudding, where the PAF will eventually have the platform as their main type to replace their F-7P and eventually non ROSE Mirage. That alone gives me confidence in the type. You can say that they dont really have an option otherwise politically, but do remember the JF-17 underwent a reconfiguration at some point during its development to better handle emerging Indian threats such as the Flanker. Its said the JF-17 received alot of input from the Russians and may acutally be based on their original MIG-33. 

You mentioned top speed. So what? It takes alot of fuel and these types rarely if ever operationally approach their top speeds. Another member mentioned that the only difference is the JF-17's ability to fire more weapons from the Chinese inventory. Yea, I would say that important. Bangladesh better have a counter for the SD-10s that will soon be in Myanmar Air Force inventory. Active radar homing BVR is a game changer. Not to mention the PL-10 and other goodies that the Chinese are working on and fielded already. 

Not to mention the block 3 which they are working on with AESA, new engine, HMS and probably newer weapon system capabilities. 

So yea I would take a JF-17 over an F-7 any day of the week.

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## The Ronin

Doesn't the price rises with new block of JF-17? And what Block 3 will offer is already there with other fighters like Su-30, J-10, Mig-35 with more hard-point. So why bother comparing these two. JF-17 will be last option if BAF really become totally hopeless.


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## Avicenna

I would think block 3 is somewhat comparable to the Gripen.

BAF is held hostage to the Russians or Chinese. The West isnt willing to sell unless
Bangladesh is willing to spend.

Case in point, the Russians peddling hard to the BAF the Mig-35, to keep MIG in business, rather then selling the SU-30s outright.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I would think block 3 is somewhat comparable to the Gripen.
> 
> BAF is held hostage to the Russians or Chinese. The West isnt willing to sell unless
> Bangladesh is willing to spend.
> 
> Case in point, the Russians peddling hard to the BAF the Mig-35, to keep MIG in business, rather then selling the SU-30s outright.



JF-17 Block 3 is a poor man's Gripen E - inferior in all aspects.

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## Bilal9

Black Bird 007 said:


> What?? No, these are wrong info. It has 5 hard point just like others, can't carry any anti-ship missiles.



We need a heavy duty (or even light-duty fighter) platform with a mid-body hardpoint which can carry a medium sized ALCM like the DENEL (Kentron Division) Torgos for anti-shipping mission purposes. Simply getting MRCA's and MMRCA's without pinpointing exact scenarios and missions they will be used for (or worse, for bragging rights hoping that will be a deterrent) is pointless. The South Africans (DENEL) developed the TORGOS for use with their Gripens. That is one option if you can adapt it to (integrate with) F-7BG launch and track systems. AFAIK F-7BG and Gripen are same weight class and same missile-weight capabilities.






Look at the use scenario for Pakistan's HATF/RA'AD and Mirage 5 and see what a homegrown missile and a decades old launch platform gives you. This is called bang-for-the-buck.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> JF-17 Block 3 is a poor man's Gripen E - inferior in all aspects.



Yup and thats exactly what we are. Poor men.

I give the Pakistanis full credit in terms of the JF-17 program. What they did was really admirable. You have to remember what a difficult environment it was for them post Pressler amendment. Anytime a muslim nation embraces self sufficiency, albeit with some Chinese help, we should applaud it. They navigated a VERY difficult situation to field an operational fighter which they are staking the lions share of their air capabilities on. 

Poor man's Gripen or not, kudos to Pakistan.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Firstly, lets look at the time frame of the F-7BG and F-7BGI purchases. The BGs were delivered in 2006 and the BGI in 2013 approximately. At that time, the JF-17 was just enterting block 2 phase production. I would characterize the block 1 as an incomplete product. Additionally, your right, the price difference is tremendous and at that point in time I can see the wisdom of getting the F-7s, not to mention familiarity with the platform, ease of integration along the lines of training and maintainence. So I'm not making the arguement that BAF should have bought the JF-17 instead of the F-7 IN THAT TIME FRAME.
> 
> However, in comparing the 2 platforms in 2018 and also generally speaking, I would absolutely want the JF-17 block 2 and above over the F-7BGI.
> 
> Firstly, the proof is in the pudding, where the PAF will eventually have the platform as their main type to replace their F-7P and eventually non ROSE Mirage. That alone gives me confidence in the type. You can say that they dont really have an option otherwise politically, but do remember the JF-17 underwent a reconfiguration at some point during its development to better handle emerging Indian threats such as the Flanker. Its said the JF-17 received alot of input from the Russians and may acutally be based on their original MIG-33.
> 
> You mentioned top speed. So what? It takes alot of fuel and these types rarely if ever operationally approach their top speeds. Another member mentioned that the only difference is the JF-17's ability to fire more weapons from the Chinese inventory. Yea, I would say that important. Bangladesh better have a counter for the SD-10s that will soon be in Myanmar Air Force inventory. Active radar homing BVR is a game changer. Not to mention the PL-10 and other goodies that the Chinese are working on and fielded already.
> 
> Not to mention the block 3 which they are working on with AESA, new engine, HMS and probably newer weapon system capabilities.
> 
> So yea I would take a JF-17 over an F-7 any day of the week.



Bhai even if JF-17 is a great platform technically, the chances of getting it from Pakistan (and far more importantly, the AL govt. approving that purchase) is close to nil.

Theoretically - great platform and maybe quite cost effective as well. But does it compare with first world or Russian options technically, or has any chance of getting inducted? I have my doubts.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Yup and thats exactly what we are. Poor men.
> 
> I give the Pakistanis full credit in terms of the JF-17 program. What they did was really admirable. You have to remember what a difficult environment it was for them post Pressler amendment. Anytime a muslim nation embraces self sufficiency, albeit with some Chinese help, we should applaud it. They navigated a VERY difficult situation to field an operational fighter which they are staking the lions share of their air capabilities on.
> 
> Poor man's Gripen or not, kudos to Pakistan.



I am not trying to take anything away from JF-17 as it is a good effort by Pakistan to develop their own aerospace industry. My point is that even the JF17 Block 3 would be not that useful for BD as it will be facing Rafales and SU-30s of India. Myanmar is not the only potential foe that BD has to worry about.

While the average BD citizen is poor, the country as a whole is not since there are 160 million people in BD. 250 billion US dollar GDP growing at over 7% a year can afford decent numbers of sophisticated Western aircraft.
The problem is that I am not sure whether BD government is willing to start exploring Western options yet.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I am not trying to take anything away from JF-17 as it is a good effort by Pakistan to develop their own aerospace industry. My point is that even the JF17 Block 3 would be not that useful for BD as it will be facing Rafales and SU-30s of India. Myanmar is not the only potential for that BD has to worry about.
> 
> While the average BD citizen is poor, the country as a whole is not since there are 160 million people in BD. 250 billion US dollar GDP growing at over 7% a year can afford decent numbers of sophisticated Western aircraft.
> The problem is that I am not sure whether BD government is willing to start exploring Western options yet.



What are you saying? It's the JF-17 that PAF is dependent on to TAKE ON the Flankers and Rafales amongst others. 

And for the record PAF is infinitely more capable than the BAF. It's laughable to even compare.

Now that being said, if BAF undertakes an effective program to increase its size and capabilities, there is nothing to preclude it from achieving similar capabilities. But seriously, that is a long long LONG way off.

In terms of the BAF acquiring the JF-17. Yea thats not happening I agree.

For my two cents, I wish BAF went with the Gripen/Eireye pathway.


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## Bilal9

Can someone explain to me why Pakistan will sell us their top grade 'deploy in numbers' fighter (JF-17 Block III) when they *know* that the BAF is more or less infiltrated by the RAW and that Indians would be privy to the operational weaknesses of that platform ?

It fails to make sense to me - that's all.

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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> Can someone explain to me why Pakistan will sell us their top grade 'deploy in numbers' fighter (JF-17 Block III) when they *know* that the BAF is more or less infiltrated by the RAW and that Indians would be privy to the operational weaknesses of that platform ?
> 
> It fails to make sense to me - that's all.




Is the situation that much different when they sold it to the Burmese monkeys? India has a fairly robust relationship with them.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> Is the situation that much different when they sold it to the Burmese monkeys? India has a fairly robust relationship with them.



Well if I trust the Pakistani fauji thinkers (?) to preserve their own interest, they would not sell the latest and the greatest to non-trustable customers like Myanmar. If you notice, the Myanmarese were given Block I versions, the software for launching missiles and IFF transponders are most probably set up differently as well, graded a level lower, just like the Russians and Chinese exports.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> Firstly, lets *look at the time frame of the F-7BG and F-7BGI purchases*. The BGs were delivered in 2006 and the BGI in 2013 approximately. At that time, the JF-17 was just enterting block 2 phase production. I would characterize the block 1 as an incomplete product. Additionally, your right, the price difference is tremendous and at that point in time I can see the wisdom of getting the F-7s, not to mention familiarity with the platform, ease of integration along the lines of training and maintainence. So I'm not making the arguement that BAF should have bought the JF-17 instead of the F-7 IN THAT TIME FRAME


The reality is irrespective of the times when two groups of machines are manufactured, the quality of each depends upon the quality of armament, other input and specifications. All the plane technology were fully matured even though it was built twenty years ago. So, because F-7 was produced quite a time before JF-17 was produced, therefore, the latter is better than the former is not true. 

We have to note that F-7 planes have been derived from a matured Mig-21 plane, which was once called "Poor man's F-16." Mig-21 is no more being produced, but it is being produced by the designation of F-7 in China. F-7 is certainly not worse than JF-17. It still remains the poor man's F-16.


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> The reality is irrespective of the times when two groups of machines are manufactured, the quality of each depends upon the quality of armament, other input and specifications. All the plane technology were fully matured even though it was built twenty years ago. So, because F-7 was produced quite a time before JF-17 was produced, therefore, the latter is better than the former is not true.
> 
> We have to note that F-7 planes have been derived from a matured Mig-21 plane, which was once called "Poor man's F-16." Mig-21 is no more being produced, but it is being produced by the designation of F-7 in China. F-7 is certainly not worse than JF-17. It still remains the poor man's F-16.



Your ignorance on this topic is apparent in this post.

Read up on the history of the J-7. Its only in its F-7PG iteration that it was called a mini F-16.
It is no longer being produced. The BGI were the last ones made and the line closed in 2013.

PAF is replacing its F-7P with the Thunder. You wanna ask the Pakistanis which platform they would rather have? SD-10 alone makes the JF-17 superior.

Also, i am giving you the benefit of the doubt here, perhaps I misunderstand you. But when a plane is made and put into use is of course important in determining which is better.
I would much rather have an F-22 than an F-4.

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## PDF

Bilal9 said:


> Well if I trust the Pakistani fauji thinkers (?) to preserve their own interest, they would not sell the latest and the greatest to non-trustable customers like Myanmar. If you notice, the Myanmarese were given Block I versions, the software for launching missiles and IFF transponders are most probably set up differently as well, graded a level lower, just like the Russians and Chinese exports.


The avionics Myanmar chose were mostly of the Chinese. Pakistan have mostly western and_ indigenous_ avionics in its JF17 which is a strong point for our defense. We have partial FBW in JF 17A while the Jf 17B and the jets from block III will have full FBW. I hope we do not export our systems a graded lower rather they should be at the same level as ours to all of our friendly countries(hope its the case with the Nigerian AF). Anyway, Bangladesh needs to decide quickly whether it will go for Russian jets or not.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> Your ignorance on this topic is apparent in this post.
> 
> Read up on the history of the J-7. Its only in its F-7PG iteration that it was called a mini F-16.
> It is no longer being produced. The BGI were the last ones made and the line closed in 2013.
> 
> PAF is replacing its F-7P with the Thunder. You wanna ask the Pakistanis which platform they would rather have? SD-10 alone makes the JF-17 superior.
> 
> Also, am dim giving you the benefit of the doubt here, perhaps I misunderstand you. But when a plane is made and put into use is of course important in determining which is better.
> I would much rather have an F-22 than an F-4.


There are a few now retired PAF officers who had served in the 1970s and 1980s lamenting how the PAF didn't pick-up the Northrop F-20 when given the chance.

Despite it being not as capable as the F-16 and with a shorter upgrade ceiling, they all asked, "would we have preferred F-7s to the F-20s in the 1990s if given the chance? I doubt it." According to one of them, during the Carter administration the US had even offered the F-20 with manufacturing in Pakistan (remember: it was an export-centric design).

When the time came to look for an F-6 replacement (late 1980s), the F-20 was a dead fish so they had to work on the Sabre II, which tried bringing the F-20's radar and avionics to the F-7P airframe. At that time, Dassault even offered to shift the Mirage F-1's production line to Pakistan, and we saw how the Moroccans were able to configure the F-1 to contemporary standards (F2000).

The lesson the PAF learned from the F-20 issue was that a new 'low-end' fighter that can bring the capabilities of the current high-end is better than fielding swaths of old low-end jets. Yes - the Su-30SME or Su-35 can knock out an intruding IAF fighter, but what are you going to do when those jets are on the ground being serviced?

Does one expect the Russians to back either belligerent (esp. the smaller one) in a fight with a steady stream of spare parts? I doubt it. You'll need that quantity-heavy, lower-cost but still contemporary asset to sustain your physical air presence and continually force the adversary to over-commit in its own assets in each engagement (thus having it too feel the heavy cost of fighting).

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## Bilal9

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> There are a few now retired PAF officers who had served in the 1970s and 1980s lamenting how the PAF didn't pick-up the Northrop F-20 when given the chance.
> 
> Despite it being not as capable as the F-16 and with a shorter upgrade ceiling, they all asked, "would we have preferred F-7s to the F-20s in the 1990s if given the chance? I doubt it." According to one of them, during the Carter administration the US had even offered the F-20 with manufacturing in Pakistan (remember: it was an export-centric design).
> 
> When the time came to look for an F-6 replacement (late 1980s), the F-20 was a dead fish so they had to work on the Sabre II, which tried bringing the F-20's radar and avionics to the F-7P airframe. At that time, Dassault even offered to shift the Mirage F-1's production line to Pakistan, and we saw how the Moroccans were able to configure the F-1 to contemporary standards (F2000).
> 
> The lesson the PAF learned from the F-20 issue was that a new 'low-end' fighter that can bring the capabilities of the current high-end is better than fielding swaths of old low-end jets. Yes - the Su-30SME or Su-35 can knock out an intruding IAF fighter, but what are you going to do when those jets are on the ground being serviced?
> 
> Does one expect the Russians to back either belligerent (esp. the smaller one) in a fight with a steady stream of spare parts? I doubt it. You'll need that quantity-heavy, lower-cost but still contemporary asset to sustain your physical air presence and continually force the adversary to over-commit in its own assets in each engagement (thus having it too feel the heavy cost of fighting).



Your weighing in here with your views about fielding 'active' numbers vs. quality is indeed much appreciated Sir. The F-20 (my understanding was that it was a modernized F-5) was not a rip-roaring export success for the US at any rate, even not considering Pakistan.

So - given that SHW's govt. at this time will be reluctant to buy JF17's, I'm curious what other economical option you would suggest (maybe to assemble locally)?

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Bilal9 said:


> Your weighing in here with your views about fielding 'active' numbers vs. quality is indeed much appreciated Sir. The F-20 (my understanding was that it was a modernized F-5) was not a rip-roaring export success for the US at any rate, even not considering Pakistan.
> 
> So - given that SHW's govt. at this time will be reluctant to buy JF17's, I'm curious what other economical option you would suggest (maybe to assemble locally)?


The F-20 and F-16-79 were developed for the export market in Carter's time, who had maintained restrictions on the technology the US could export. This was lifted during Reagan's time, at which point, countries wanted the F-16-proper - basically leaving the F-20 and F-16-79 to wither.

IMO it'd be wise for Bangladesh to avoid Russian planes all together. I know the MiG-35 and Su-30SME are solid platforms, but you're not just buying the fighter, but the after-sale support, training and logistics packages. The Russians have every incentive - especially as a probable credit/loan-source - to tie Bangladesh to the Russian industry for spare parts, MRO, etc. Sure, I think one could try pushing the Russians to open up shop in Bangladesh by investing in the local MRO base and manufacturing parts under the UAC brand (but in BD), but that's no guarantee for war-time security (as Moscow can ask UAC-BD to stop or recall critical staff). There's also the risk of tying one's budding aviation industry to foreign ownership - e.g. capital outflows from profit, inability to control pricing domestically, etc.

The alternative (if not JF-17/FC-1) should be the JAS-39C/D or E/F or the J-10A (or if possible J-10C, though AVIC hasn't put it up for export). The JAS-39E/F's all-in costs (i.e. flyaway cost plus after-sale support etc) is around $130-150 m per jet, which is the lowest of the Western fighters. Sweden is also willing to release loans for sales.

Avoid local assembly, push for stockpiling as many spare parts and spare engines as possible and aim for domestic overhauling. Once you finish paying for the purchase, leverage a follow-on purchase to having Saab outsource some parts manufacturing work for all Gripen (or other products) to Bangladesh.

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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> IMO it'd be wise for Bangladesh to avoid Russian planes all together. I know the MiG-35 and Su-30SME are solid platforms, but you're not just buying the fighter, but the after-sale support, training and logistics packages. The Russians have every incentive - especially as a probable credit/loan-source - to tie Bangladesh to the Russian industry for spare parts, MRO, etc. Sure, I think one could try pushing the Russians to open up shop in Bangladesh by investing in the local MRO base and manufacturing parts under the UAC brand (but in BD), but that's no guarantee for war-time security (as Moscow can ask UAC-BD to stop or recall critical staff). There's also the risk of tying one's budding aviation industry to foreign ownership - e.g. capital outflows from profit, inability to control pricing domestically, etc.



Post soviets Migs had problem is service and support as Mig factory was in Ukraine. Russians already sorted themselves out. And russian fighters are cheap compared to their capabilities.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Post soviets Migs had problem is service and support as Mig factory was in Ukraine. Russians already sorted themselves out. And russian fighters are cheap compared to their capabilities.



Russian planes have high operational costs compared to Western types.
Gripen E life cycle cost will be same as Mig-35, even though Gripen E is so much a better fighter.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> Your ignorance on this topic is apparent in this post.
> 
> Read up on the history of the *J-7. Its only in its F-7PG iteration that it was called a mini F-16.*
> It is no longer being produced. The BGI were the last ones made and the line closed in 2013.



Was F-7PG a plane different from the F-7 group? 


Avicenna said:


> *Your ignorance on this topic is apparent in this post.*
> 
> Read up on the history of the J-7. Its only in its F-7PG iteration that it was called a mini F-16.
> It is no longer being produced. The BGI were the last ones made and the line closed in 2013.
> 
> PAF is replacing its F-7P with the Thunder. You wanna ask the Pakistanis which platform they would rather have? SD-10 alone makes the JF-17 superior.
> 
> Also, i am giving you the benefit of the doubt here, perhaps I misunderstand you. But when a plane is made and put into use is of course important in determining which is better.
> I would much rather have an F-22 than an F-4.


I accept your scolding me a novice and ignorant on avionics. But, you have failed to pinpoint the advantages of JF-17 Block 2 even over F-7BGI. Instead of getting emotional you must send a comparison table for even an ignorant like me to understand fully why BAF should discard F-7BGI and induct JF-17 instead?

When the BAF bought the BGI planes there were rumors all across the country that it would induct JF-17. It may not have materialized due to geopolitical reason, but there were also talks that the F-7BGIs are for an interim period and BAF would purchase 5G planes. So, why do you think when the BAF did not even consider JF at that time, how it can consider it now when it altready has F-7BGI (poor man's F-16) in its arsenal. Is JF-17 a 5G plane?

So, BAF certainly is planning to buy Russian or western planes. It may be considering also J-10s from China. So, however you tit, I do not think JF-17 will anytime be inducted by the BAF. This plane is not even at par with Tejas except the ceiling height.


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## Tanveer666

bluesky said:


> The reality is irrespective of the times when two groups of machines are manufactured, the quality of each depends upon the quality of armament, other input and specifications. All the plane technology were fully matured even though it was built twenty years ago. So, because F-7 was produced quite a time before JF-17 was produced, therefore, the latter is better than the former is not true.
> 
> *We have to note that F-7 planes have been derived from a matured Mig-21 plane, which was once called "Poor man's F-16.*" Mig-21 is no more being produced, but it is being produced by the designation of F-7 in China. F-7 is certainly not worse than JF-17. It still remains the poor man's F-16.


source regarding the bolded parts?


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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> Was F-7PG a plane different from the F-7 group?
> 
> I accept your scolding me a novice and ignorant on avionics. But, you have failed to pinpoint the advantages of JF-17 Block 2 even over F-7BGI. Instead of getting emotional you must send a comparison table for even an ignorant like me to understand fully why BAF should discard F-7BGI and induct JF-17 instead?
> 
> When the BAF bought the BGI planes there were rumors all across the country that it would induct JF-17. It may not have materialized due to geopolitical reason, but there were also talks that the F-7BGIs are for an interim period and BAF would purchase 5G planes. So, why do you think when the BAF did not even consider JF at that time, how it can consider it now when it altready has F-7BGI (poor man's F-16) in its arsenal. Is JF-17 a 5G plane?
> 
> So, BAF certainly is planning to buy Russian or western planes. It may be considering also J-10s from China. So, however you tit, I do not think JF-17 will anytime be inducted by the BAF. This plane is not even at par with Tejas except the ceiling height.


Basically we need a plane which should permanently shut monkeys up from the south so that we can concentrate on our big dada in the west.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Basically we need a plane which should permanently shut monkeys up from the south so that we can concentrate on our big dada in the west.



SU-30SME and any Western 4th generation fighter can shoot down their Mig-29s and JF-17s down with ease.


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> Was F-7PG a plane different from the F-7 group?
> 
> I accept your scolding me a novice and ignorant on avionics. But, you have failed to pinpoint the advantages of JF-17 Block 2 even over F-7BGI. Instead of getting emotional you must send a comparison table for even an ignorant like me to understand fully why BAF should discard F-7BGI and induct JF-17 instead?
> 
> When the BAF bought the BGI planes there were rumors all across the country that it would induct JF-17. It may not have materialized due to geopolitical reason, but there were also talks that the F-7BGIs are for an interim period and BAF would purchase 5G planes. So, why do you think when the BAF did not even consider JF at that time, how it can consider it now when it altready has F-7BGI (poor man's F-16) in its arsenal. Is JF-17 a 5G plane?
> 
> So, BAF certainly is planning to buy Russian or western planes. It may be considering also J-10s from China. So, however you tit, I do not think JF-17 will anytime be inducted by the BAF. This plane is not even at par with Tejas except the ceiling height.



F-7PG is a Pakistan specific, modified version of the J-7E. The J-7E had some structural changes most notably on the wings to give improved flight performance. I have no knowledge of the specific subsystems on the PG or BGI but yes you can make the arguement that the BGI is sort of a "mini F-16".

I am not advocating for discarding the BG/BGI for the JF-17. I am just making the assertion that the JF-17 is by far a superior platform. Tables are almost meaningless. Higher service ceilings of the Tejas by itself are meaningless. I suppose the real issue is the capability the platform brings to the table. Again, just one case in point vis a vis Thunder/BGI, the SD-10. BGI, as far as I know can not mount the SD-10. At least I have not seen any credible info that it can. For the Thunder, it is a primary weapon. If you look at the historical context of the JF-17. Pakistan was SCREWED in the 90's to the mid 2000's before it got its hands on some -C5 AMRAAMS. PAF was at a serious disadvantage to the IAF becuse of the availability of types such as the R-77 to the latter. The war on terror and its ripple political effects allowed PAF to obtain the AMRAAM. However, if not for that, PAF would have only had the SD-10 as an active radar homing AAM. 

This alone IMO, makes the Thunder a better platform than the BGI. It brings a capability to BAF that wouldnt be present with the BG/BGI.

However, with that being said, at this point, if I was running the BAF, I would break the cycle of China/Russia and bite the bullet and go to Gripen/Eireye.

Not gonna happen though unfortunately.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> This alone IMO, makes the Thunder a better platform than the BGI. It brings a capability to BAF that wouldnt be present with the BG/BGI.
> 
> However, with that being said, at this point, if I was running the BAF, I would break the cycle of China/Russia and bite the bullet and go to Gripen/Eireye.
> 
> Not gonna happen though unfortunately.



I still think there is hope.

Remember that the "life-cycle" cost of the Gripen E is no more than for either Russian Mig-35 or Chinese J-10B.
It seems that BAF really does not want the Mig-35 and the Chinese J-10B may not be that desireable due to suspicion over it's effectiveness against China's client state Myanmar.

Western countries can and do give out loans to buy their arms and so the Gripen E is definitely affordable for BD in numbers as Russian or Chinese options. The two big questions are whether US will approve due to engine and is BD able to think out of the Chinese/Russian box.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> F-7PG is a Pakistan specific, modified version of the J-7E. The J-7E had some structural changes most notably on the wings to give improved flight performance. I have no knowledge of the specific subsystems on the PG or BGI but yes you can make the arguement that the BGI is sort of a "mini F-16".


I am happy that you forgot to call me a stupid this time. But, even a stupid like me knows that PG is Pakistan specific. But, is not the F-7 plane itself a derivation of the basic Mig-21? Even some people regard JF is partly a derivation from F-7. Read other sources. In the initial stage, the Chinese named it *Super-7*. Do you really understand that it is because it was derived from F-7?

About Mig-21 being called in those days by, "Poor man's F-16", people should find out the truth by themselves. Our BGI is supposed to be a better plane than PG, is not it? PAF has 50 units of F-7PG and IAF has many units of Mig-21. These two airforces are not thinking of dismantling these planes of theirs, but, here, in the PDF our arm chaired warriors are talking left and right to destroy F-7 planes of ours, as if they earn $15 million every minute.

BAF must buy a better plane than JF-17 that has a speed of only 1.6 mach. Read the explanation of many of the controversial specifications of the Thunder. Note the speed and others below:

*Technical data sheet of JF-17
Empty Weight - 6586 kgs / 14520 lbs
* Engine Thrust
- Emergency takeoff Thrust - 8700 kgf / 19200 lbf
- Afterburner Thrust - 8300 kgf / 18300 lbf
* Radar Range(Detection) - 75 km for 3m2 target
* Speed - Mach 1.6*****
* Weapons Payload - 3400 kgs / 7500lbs*


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## Bilal9

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The F-20 and F-16-79 were developed for the export market in Carter's time, who had maintained restrictions on the technology the US could export. This was lifted during Reagan's time, at which point, countries wanted the F-16-proper - basically leaving the F-20 and F-16-79 to wither.
> 
> IMO it'd be wise for Bangladesh to avoid Russian planes all together. I know the MiG-35 and Su-30SME are solid platforms, but you're not just buying the fighter, but the after-sale support, training and logistics packages. The Russians have every incentive - especially as a probable credit/loan-source - to tie Bangladesh to the Russian industry for spare parts, MRO, etc. Sure, I think one could try pushing the Russians to open up shop in Bangladesh by investing in the local MRO base and manufacturing parts under the UAC brand (but in BD), but that's no guarantee for war-time security (as Moscow can ask UAC-BD to stop or recall critical staff). There's also the risk of tying one's budding aviation industry to foreign ownership - e.g. capital outflows from profit, inability to control pricing domestically, etc.
> 
> The alternative (if not JF-17/FC-1) should be the JAS-39C/D or E/F or the J-10A (or if possible J-10C, though AVIC hasn't put it up for export). The JAS-39E/F's all-in costs (i.e. flyaway cost plus after-sale support etc) is around $130-150 m per jet, which is the lowest of the Western fighters. Sweden is also willing to release loans for sales.
> 
> Avoid local assembly, push for stockpiling as many spare parts and spare engines as possible and aim for domestic overhauling. Once you finish paying for the purchase, leverage a follow-on purchase to having Saab outsource some parts manufacturing work for all Gripen (or other products) to Bangladesh.



Many Thanks for your valuable comments. All wonderful and practical suggestions. @Avicenna bhai would you concur?

Is there a standard list of critical spares to stockpile besides engines? And which spares for the engines themselves?

And what is the ratio of extra engines to keep around handy per how many fighters?

I am sure best practices dictate such a ratio but I have a hunch that spares for the engine for Gripen E/F (GE F414G) would not be as frequently needed as Russian ones, because Mean time between overhaul would be longer.

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## Tanveer666

bluesky said:


> I am happy that you forgot to call me a stupid this time. But, even a stupid like me knows that PG is Pakistan specific. But, is not the F-7 plane itself a derivation of the basic Mig-21? Even some people regard JF is partly a derivation from F-7. Read other sources. In the initial stage, the Chinese named it *Super-7*. Do you really understand that it is because it was derived from F-7?
> 
> About Mig-21 being called in those days by, "Poor man's F-16", people should find out the truth by themselves. Our BGI is supposed to be a better plane than PG, is not it? PAF has 50 units of F-7PG and IAF has many units of Mig-21. These two airforces are not thinking of dismantling these planes of theirs, but, here, in the PDF our arm chaired warriors are talking left and right to destroy F-7 planes of ours, as if they earn $15 million every minute.
> 
> BAF must buy a better plane than JF-17 that has a speed of only 1.6 mach. Read the explanation of many of the controversial specifications of the Thunder. Note the speed and others below:
> 
> *Technical data sheet of JF-17
> Empty Weight - 6586 kgs / 14520 lbs
> * Engine Thrust
> - Emergency takeoff Thrust - 8700 kgf / 19200 lbf
> - Afterburner Thrust - 8300 kgf / 18300 lbf
> * Radar Range(Detection) - 75 km for 3m2 target
> * Speed - Mach 1.6*****
> * Weapons Payload - 3400 kgs / 7500lbs*



JF-17 does have a better payload though, F7-BGI has a payload of 4000 lbs. Wouldn't JF-17 be useful in ground attack roles,at least compared to F7-BG/BGI for its superior payload?


EDIT: Also, PAF is gradually replacing all its f7's with jf-17's, is it not? And india is trying to do the same with Tejas. And while i agree that we should replace F7 MB's with something better than Jf-17, but i dont think GOB is willing to spend $5-6 billion for BAF


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Bilal9 said:


> Many Thanks for your valuable comments. All wonderful and practical suggestions. @Avicenna bhai would you concur?
> 
> Is there a standard list of critical spares to stockpile besides engines? And which spares for the engines themselves?
> 
> And what is the ratio of extra engines to keep around handy per how many fighters?
> 
> I am sure best practices dictate such a ratio but I have a hunch that spares for the engine for Gripen E/F (Volvo/GE flygmotor) would not be as frequently needed as Russian ones, because Mean time between overhaul would be longer.


The engine is your main dynamic component, so spare engines, line replaceable units (LRU) for the engines and critical components (e.g. crystal blades) would be key. 

The specific set of spare parts stockpiles depends user-to-user (e.g. Pakistan bought 2 spare engines for the AH-1Z fleet) and the extent of your maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) base. If you're going to select any jet - be it Gripen, MiG-35, J-10A or Su-30SME/Su-35 - go all in with the MRO as well in addition to stockpiling or, ideally, license manufacturing wearable parts.

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## bluesky

Tanveer666 said:


> JF-17 does have a better payload though, F7-BGI has a *payload of 4000 lbs.* Wouldn't JF-17 be useful in ground attack roles,at least compared to F7-BG/BGI for its superior payload?



No, the F-7BGI fighter jets can carry 3000 kgs (6,600 lbs) of weapons payload. Upgraded F-7BGI can carry and fire BVR & WVR air-to-air missiles, GPS/Laser guided bombs, Anti-Ship Missiles (AShM) and two types of rocket pods to fire unguided rockets. New engine has a wet thrust of 82kN. How about the thrust of JF-17? It is same like BGI.

So, I think, JF-17 will not be useful for BAF. Only Swedish, Russian or Chinese J-10 with Russian engine will be a mark of upgrading for our BAF. The govt is targeting any or combination of these planes. Anyway, a plane with only a speed of 1.6 mach was obviously not considered before buying the BGIs, and BAF is certainly not considering it now. BAF is certainly not swayed by the JF propaganda.


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## The Ronin

bluesky said:


> Upgraded F-7BGI can carry and fire BVR & WVR air-to-air missiles, GPS/Laser guided bombs, Anti-Ship Missiles (AShM)



no bvr, wvr, AShM. only near bvr.

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## AMG_12

bluesky said:


> No, the F-7BGI fighter jets can carry 3000 kgs (6,600 lbs) of weapons payload. Upgraded F-7BGI can carry and fire BVR & WVR air-to-air missiles, GPS/Laser guided bombs, Anti-Ship Missiles (AShM) and two types of rocket pods to fire unguided rockets. New engine has a wet thrust of 82kN. How about the thrust of JF-17? It is same like BGI.
> 
> So, I think, JF-17 will not be useful for BAF. Only Swedish, Russian or Chinese J-10 with Russian engine will be a mark of upgrading for our BAF. The govt is targeting any or combination of these planes. Anyway, a plane with only a speed of 1.6 mach was obviously not considered before buying the BGIs, and BAF is certainly not considering it now. BAF is certainly not swayed by the JF propaganda.


Can you provide a source for your claims? Bdmilitary isn't a credible source. If F7BGI has all those capabilities, I don't see a reason for BAF to procure a 4th Gen fighter.


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## Tanveer666

bluesky said:


> No, the F-7BGI fighter jets can carry 3000 kgs (6,600 lbs) of weapons payload. Upgraded F-7BGI can carry and fire BVR & WVR air-to-air missiles, GPS/Laser guided bombs, Anti-Ship Missiles (AShM) and two types of rocket pods to fire unguided rockets. New engine has a wet thrust of 82kN. How about the thrust of JF-17? It is same like BGI.
> 
> So, I think, JF-17 will not be useful for BAF. Only Swedish, Russian or Chinese J-10 with Russian engine will be a mark of upgrading for our BAF. The govt is targeting any or combination of these planes. Anyway, a plane with only a speed of 1.6 mach was obviously not considered before buying the BGIs, and BAF is certainly not considering it now. BAF is certainly not swayed by the JF propaganda.




BAF themselves said that F7 BGI has 4000 lbs of payload. I very clearly remember the commentator saying 4000 pounds of payload while F7 BGI was performing aerial acrobatics for the 2016 victory day parade.


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Many Thanks for your valuable comments. All wonderful and practical suggestions. @Avicenna bhai would you concur?
> 
> Is there a standard list of critical spares to stockpile besides engines? And which spares for the engines themselves?
> 
> And what is the ratio of extra engines to keep around handy per how many fighters?
> 
> I am sure best practices dictate such a ratio but I have a hunch that spares for the engine for Gripen E/F (GE F414G) would not be as frequently needed as Russian ones, because Mean time between overhaul would be longer.



@Bilal Khan (Quwa) is straight gangsta. His viewpoints and suggestions are always appreciated and taken with gravity.

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## Hunting Eagle

Avicenna said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) is straight gangsta. His viewpoints and suggestions are always appreciated and taken with gravity.[/QUO



Hi, all the best wishes to everybody, I am a newbie here.
Regarding the BAF figjterjet choices I become confused when I see there choice su30(I mean the BAF Pilots regardless of the geopolitical issue) incomparable to grippers it is more costly to maintain, more easy to breakdown, far less of a dogfighter let alone having far less bvr capability, combat range far less important when other parameters (above mentioned) are weaker even in comparison to a small figjterjet like gripen.


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## bdslph

then Pakistan would have bought the F7 BGI instead of JF17 
as we are saying same or equal and Pakistan would not have wasted there money 

when comparing there should me complete transparent fair table of the jf 17 models and the f7 models


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## TopCat

Hunting Eagle said:


> Hi, all the best wishes to everybody, I am a newbie here.
> Regarding the BAF figjterjet choices I become confused when I see there choice su30(I mean the BAF Pilots regardless of the geopolitical issue) incomparable to grippers it is more costly to maintain, more easy to breakdown, far less of a dogfighter let alone having far less bvr capability, combat range far less important when other parameters (above mentioned) are weaker even in comparison to a small figjterjet like gripen.


BD will maintain a very small fleet of heavy mrca but main work horse will be mig-35 or j-10.

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## bluesky

bdslph said:


> then Pakistan would have bought the F7 BGI instead of JF17
> as we are saying same or equal and Pakistan would not have wasted there money
> 
> when comparing there should me complete transparent fair table of the jf 17 models and the f7 models


Yes, genius. you are right about this point. Yes, instead of *developing its own JF-1*7, Pakistan should have bought F-7s. But, do not you even know that PAF has already 50 units of F-7PG? Do not please talk like a small kid.

BAF bought BGI may be because its speed is mach. 2.0+ against JF's 1.6. Do you think BAF Officers follow the opinion of ignorant BD posters of PDF? When BAF has BGIs, it is certainly considering to buy a better plane with higher level of weapons and speed. It is certainly not JF-17, although some of you guys are talking Muslim Ummah.


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## mb444

BD bought BGI at a throwaway price as per our eternal quest for stopgap solution where as PK developed the JF series looking to the future. There is really no comparison.

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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> Yes, genius. you are right about this point. Yes, instead of *developing its own JF-1*7, Pakistan should have bought F-7s. But, do not you even know that PAF has already 50 units of F-7PG? Do not please talk like a small kid.
> 
> BAF bought BGI may be because its speed is mach. 2.0+ against JF's 1.6. Do you think BAF Officers follow the opinion of ignorant BD posters of PDF? When BAF has BGIs, it is certainly considering to buy a better plane with higher level of weapons and speed. It is certainly not JF-17, although some of you guys are talking Muslim Ummah.



Please help me understand you. Are you saying Pakistan should have bought more F-7 rather than develop the JF-17? Also, why do you keep focusing on max speed?


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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> Please help me understand you. Are you saying Pakistan should have bought more F-7 rather than develop the JF-17? Also, why do you keep focusing on max speed?


It is good that Pakistan has developed its own jets. Whatever may be the speed or other faults, every Pakistani should take pride of this achievement by their engineers in collaboration with the Chinese.

But, BD is a different country since 1970. Why BD should pay double to buy JF-17 as a stop-gap plane, when it can buy a fairly good plane like F-7BGI at very low price from China? So, it was the best decision by the BAF top people. 

Now, when BAF is considering to buy a new plane, how should it decide for a plane with slower speed and maneuvering? Speed is important to outmaneuver your enemy planes. Do not please think that dog fighting is no more needed. In reality, the strength of BVR war has not been proved in an actual war. But, the WVR style of dog fighting is still the way of the pilots. So, speed is needed.

The planes to be inducted newly are supposed to be 4.5G. Whatever the JF propaganda machine says , JF is certainly not in the league of 4.5G planes.


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## The Ronin

Somewhere in PDF i said our military is not satisfied with some of their hardware's quality. Chinese IJT is the top topic among them as it is often discussed in many group discussion. Now don't ask for proof or source from official as they are not stupid enough to talk about this kinda thing in open public, cause some people will start racket about wasting tax payers money or BAF's ability to choose the right thing instead of looking at budget limit first.

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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> It is good that Pakistan has developed its own jets. Whatever may be the speed or other faults, every Pakistani should take pride of this achievement by their engineers in collaboration with the Chinese.
> 
> But, BD is a different country since 1970. Why BD should pay double to buy JF-17 as a stop-gap plane, when it can buy a fairly good plane like F-7BGI at very low price from China? So, it was the best decision by the BAF top people.
> 
> Now, when BAF is considering to buy a new plane, how should it decide for a plane with slower speed and maneuvering? Speed is important to outmaneuver your enemy planes. Do not please think that dog fighting is no more needed. In reality, the strength of BVR war has not been proved in an actual war. But, the WVR style of dog fighting is still the way of the pilots. So, speed is needed.
> 
> The planes to be inducted newly are supposed to be 4.5G. Whatever the JF propaganda machine says , JF is certainly not in the league of 4.5G planes.



I agree with the first half completely. However, in regards to speed. You contradict yourself completely regarding aircraft speeds. WVR takes place in the subsonic realm. Fast speeds are more beneficial for BVR combat. If you believe so much in the WVR fight, then it behooves you to have a highly manuevable aircraft and top speed is irrelevant. You can’t dogfight at Mach 2.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I agree with the first half completely. However, in regards to speed. You contradict yourself completely regarding aircraft speeds. WVR takes place in the subsonic realm. Fast speeds are more beneficial for BVR combat. If you believe so much in the WVR fight, then it behooves you to have a highly manuevable aircraft and top speed is irrelevant. You can’t dogfight at Mach 2.


True. But what learned from spending some time in this forum that speed is an essential tool to force your opponent in a WVR fight.

Look comparing F 7 with Jf 17 is like comparing 50 year old apple to a 20 year old orange. While F 7's father Mig 21 was designed 50 years ago it was designed to be an interceptor, which can climb very fast and high and can dominate in WVR.

But JF 17 resulted from the thinking of Modern Multi role fighter. It's a multi role fighter. it's a jack of all trade kind of fighter. So it's neither as fast nor can climb as fast as an interceptor.

This explanation is as simple as that. Their is no point in comparing.



Black Bird 007 said:


> Somewhere in PDF i said our military is not satisfied with some of their hardware's quality. Chinese IJT is the top topic among them as it is often discussed in many group discussion. Now don't ask for proof or source from official as they are not stupid enough to talk about this kinda thing in open public, cause some people will start racket about wasting tax payers money or BAF's ability to choose the right thing instead of looking at budget limit first.
> View attachment 447184


 I heard that Egypt wasn't too happy with the base model either. They heavily modified it before inducting it in the air force.

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## Allah Akbar

BD will buy su35 as a stop gap in 2050 .dont be disappointed bro


Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Khali list list r list, shudhu shunei jacchi 5 years dhore BAF ar jonno ai fighter oi fighter kinteche. kochu kinche 10 bochore.jedin banglar akashe gorjon tulbe shedin believe korbo. amader faka buli bondho kora uchit. amra chinta korei sheta news baniye feli. 2021 shaler age mone hoi na kono MRCA ashbe.





Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Khali list list r list, shudhu shunei jacchi 5 years dhore BAF ar jonno ai fighter oi fighter kinteche. kochu kinche 10 bochore.jedin banglar akashe gorjon tulbe shedin believe korbo. amader faka buli bondho kora uchit. amra chinta korei sheta news baniye feli. 2021 shaler age mone hoi na kono MRCA ashbe.


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## The Ronin

Khan saheb said:


> i heard that Egypt wasn't too happy with the base model either. They heavily modified it before inducting it in the air force.


 even Bolivia, Tanzinia too.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> I agree with the first half completely. However, in regards to speed. You contradict yourself completely regarding aircraft speeds. WVR takes place in the subsonic realm. Fast speeds are more beneficial for BVR combat. If you believe so much in the WVR fight, then it behooves you to have a highly manuevable aircraft and top speed is irrelevant. You can’t dogfight at Mach 2.


You are certainly right to say that dogfight cannot be done with supersonic speed. But, a supersonic speed can be lowered to subsonic, is not it? Now, people in other thread are telling that BAF may purchase Chinese J-10C. Read its specifications that I have posted as well as in other sources. It is this kind of plane that BAF needs, but not JF-17.


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## 帅的一匹

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The engine is your main dynamic component, so spare engines, line replaceable units (LRU) for the engines and critical components (e.g. crystal blades) would be key.
> 
> The specific set of spare parts stockpiles depends user-to-user (e.g. Pakistan bought 2 spare engines for the AH-1Z fleet) and the extent of your maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) base. If you're going to select any jet - be it Gripen, MiG-35, J-10A or Su-30SME/Su-35 - go all in with the MRO as well in addition to stockpiling or, ideally, license manufacturing wearable parts.


The main problem of exporting JF17 to BAF will be the engine availability . Russia is not willing to create a competitor in Bangladesh market, which means they will not supply RD93 engine. And I don't think PAF is ready to export jF17 BLKIII as well, still they worry about the RAW stuff. 
Another problem, BAF might not want the same fighter Myanmar airforce has.

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## ziaulislam

wanglaokan said:


> The main problem of exporting JF17 to BAF will be the engine availability . Russia is not willing to create a competitor in Bangladesh market, which means they will not supply RD93 engine. And I don't think PAF is ready to export jF17 BLKIII as well, still they worry about the RAW stuff.
> Another problem, BAF might not want the same fighter Myanmar airforce has.


Absolutely wrong.
Russian exported stuff to Pakistan despite Indians suicide threats lol

Issue is Bangladesh has severe anti Pakistan sentiments...so not going to happen

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## The Ronin

wanglaokan said:


> Another problem, BAF might not want the same fighter Myanmar airforce has.


If we can afford Su-30, Mig-35 , J-10 then i don't see the necessity of looking at JF-17.

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## 帅的一匹

ziaulislam said:


> Absolutely wrong.
> Russian exported stuff to Pakistan despite Indians suicide threats lol
> 
> Issue is Bangladesh has severe anti Pakistan sentiments...so not going to happen


Even if they cut the RD93, we still have WS13 as backup.

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## Avicenna

As much as I want the Gripen for BAF, J-10C is a Chinese beauty!

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## BanglarBagh

Well To be specific it's a Beast inside a Beauty!!!

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## 帅的一匹



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## The Ronin

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 447838
> View attachment 447840
> View attachment 447841
> View attachment 447842



Wiki says J-10 has 11 hard points, but i can't find any pic with all 11 hard point, only can 8 hard point. Can you provide any real (no CGI) pic with 11 hard point?


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## 帅的一匹

Black Bird 007 said:


> Wiki says J-10 has 11 hard points, but i can't find any pic with all 11 hard point, only can 8 hard point. Can you provide any real (no CGI) pic with 11 hard point?








To make it eleven hard point, you need to count in the dual rack and the hard points of side lower part of the intake.

But if you look closely, there is also a bomb hanging on the rear side belly of the fuselage, maybe the dual rack is just counted as one.

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## Allah Akbar

Avicenna said:


> As much as I want the Gripen for BAF, J-10C is a Chinese beauty!


Gripen can be one of the best pick as a medium strike fighter . I prefer western avionics over the Russian and Chinese . f15 eagle has no single loss . the kill ratio is 109:0 .Bangladesh should go for western planes like gripen ,eurofighter .Europe is ready to sell eurofighter .


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## ziaulislam

wanglaokan said:


> Even if they cut the RD93, we still have WS13 as backup.


they will probably think about j 10

Pakistan has no issue with Bangladesh since 1973 when we asked china to not veto their entry in UN any more
its more their internal politics persecution of opposition so Bangladesh can go towards a single party dictatorship, 

Pakistan is by stander of those political targets

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## Avicenna

warrantofficer said:


> Gripen can be one of the best pick as a medium strike fighter . I prefer western avionics over the Russian and Chinese . f15 eagle has no single loss . the kill ratio is 109:0 .Bangladesh should go for western planes like gripen ,eurofighter .Europe is ready to sell eurofighter .



Bangladesh can't afford Eurofighter or Rafale. Let's be realistic.

Even Gripen is a stretch although it is a reasonable option if Bangladesh WANTS to take the financial hit.

More likely options like MiG-35 and J-10 from traditional suppliers are certainly more affordable but more of the business as usual type of transaction.

Gripen may be more upfront but it will break Bangladesh out of its traditional relationships strategically and tactically provide the BAF with the highest quality gear out there.

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## Avicenna

Come on Bangladesh! Put a couple of fazools together and get this!

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh can't afford Eurofighter or Rafale. Let's be realistic.
> 
> Even Gripen is a stretch although it is a reasonable option if Bangladesh WANTS to take the financial hit.
> 
> More likely options like MiG-35 and J-10 from traditional suppliers are certainly more affordable but more of the business as usual type of transaction.
> 
> Gripen may be more upfront but it will break Bangladesh out of its traditional relationships strategically and tactically provide the BAF with the highest quality gear out there.



Gripen has much lower operational costs than either Russian or Chinese planes, so the total
"life-cycle" costs will be similar.
I would rate Gripen E as superior to Mig-35, roughly equal to J-10B but inferior to J-10C.

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## Avicenna

Based on my non scientific non professional opinion, I would rather have the Gripen or J-10C.

I DO NOT want any MiG-35.

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## Doctor Strange

Avicenna said:


> Come on Bangladesh! Put a couple of fazools together and get this!



BD political opponents and civil society will kill the Govt with criticism if they go for such costly option. If anything such happens, should be secret deal. And with westerners its not possible. For civil society its better to not have any weapon at all. Their perception comes through Mukti Guerilla warfare. No need of air force etc BS. First people should be bombarded with brainstorming to make ways for these sophisticated items. 



Avicenna said:


> Based on my non scientific non professional opinion, I would rather have the Gripen or J-10C.
> 
> I DO NOT want any MiG-35.



I thought I saw Mig29 in your avatar before. For discussion purpose, is it possible to fit BD's existing Chinese Russian missiles in the Gripen?

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## UKBengali

The Good said:


> BD political opponents and civil society will kill the Govt with criticism if they go for such costly option. If anything such happens, should be secret deal. And with westerners its not possible. For civil society its better to not have any weapon at all. Their perception comes through Mukti Guerilla warfare. No need of air force etc BS. First people should be bombarded with brainstorming to make ways for these sophisticated items.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I saw Mig29 in your avatar before. For discussion purpose, is it possible to fit BD's existing Chinese Russian missiles in the Gripen?




Gripen E is no more costly than Mig-35 or J-10B as it has much lower operating costs.

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## Doctor Strange

UKBengali said:


> Gripen E is no more costly than Mig-35 or J-10B as it has much lower operating costs.



Yes but BD will have to acquire new range of missiles and bombs for any western platforms. Which will increase the unit cost even more. BD is no India to switch between platforms so easily. Gripen is a mixture of beauty and beast. But I see no hope for these other than Chinese and Russian platforms for now.

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## Shahzaz ud din

wanglaokan said:


> And I don't think PAF is ready to export jF17 BLKIII as well, still they worry about the RAW stuff


Brother you nailed it.No body should even think about this in prevailing situation that PAK will even sell JF-17 model to BD. Reason behind is that the Indian influence in BD is at the peak right now.So PAK cannot take any risk.RAW can stage few mishaps very easily and then game will be over.There will be full fledged propaganda against technology and capability of JF-17 all over the world. JF-17 is in development phase so PAK cannot afford to take any kind of risk.
I think PAK need 250 JF-17 of all blocks I,II and III.This target will be achieved in 2022.Till
then PAK will accept few small orders from friendly countries only.Then PAK will move to its ultimate project of a 5th-generation fighter, medium altitude long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and munitions under the banner of “Project Azm” (i.e. resolve or determination).
The AZM (resolve ) of BAF and PAF is quite different in scale and capability. BAF needs limited number of planes for border patrol where as PAK striving hard to be self sufficient in this field with the help of .
Idea of self sufficiency is far more superior then getting expensive planes with string attached with no guarantee of spare parts.It does not matter how your kid look like but you still love him the most. JF-17 is the great achievement of a developing country like Pakistan.
JF-17 and PAF are pride of nation and we know its way forward






There is only one possibility when PAK could take some calculated risk if BD is ready for long term dealing. If BD wants self sufficiency then it should follow PAK route.Order 100-200 planes with overhauling facility and complete TOT.It will be a great breakthrough in terms of technology and geopolitics of entire region.


If BD is ready for joint venture to make 200 state of the art JF-17 then you are 
otherwise .

_Note: Please don't compare JF-17 with other planes unnecessarily.It is very close to our hearts .It really hurts when somebody criticize JF-17 in jealousy.



_

Specially BD will be glad to know that JF 17 block 3 is nearing production which will be a 4+ generation fighter.This happened only in space of 15 years that JF 17 is entering its third version with already five JF 17 squadrons operational and JF 17 used in precision strikes .





*JF-17 Block 3 should have following features :*
1) AESA radar
2) CFT
3) IRST
4) Datalink with Erieye and ZDK03
5) In-Flight Refueling
6) RAM paint
7) Integration of A-Darter missiles with HOBS capability and HMS/HMD (South African Archer / Denel Cobra HMD)
8) 13 hardpoints
9) WS-13 TVC engine with 22000+ lb thrust with afterburner


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## Bilal9

So then - we have to really look at the advantages of Chinese and Russian platforms and if they outweigh the high MTBO and reliability figures of Western Platforms, besides simply cost, which does not apply any longer. And Westerners are liable to be just as reliable or unreliable a supplier. 

We are no longer price buyers, we need to look at quality and reliability. Over time, a reliable platform costs less anyway. In Bengali - we have a saying 'Shostar tin obostha'. Cheap is just that, cheap.

Bangladesh AF experience with Yak 130 AJT, and even worse, Chinese K-8 AJT, has been pretty sub-par. If these rather simple training platforms are this bad, do we need to take a chance with the backbone MRCA and MMRCA platforms being Russian and Chinese? Maybe quantity component can be cheap for fielding large numbers of fighters, but quality component too? I have my doubts.

I believe we have seen @Bilal Khan (Quwa) bhai's analysis already a few pages back. Please review it again. That was a very realistic and factual analysis of Bangladesh situation and what we need to do going forward.

I don't think the argument "We are a third world nation with no alternative other than Russian and Chinese" flies any longer (no pun intended). At some point, we have to get out of that mindset.

Bangladesh may not be in India's position yet - to support Multiple types of platforms, but there is no denying that effort has to be made towards incorporating and transitioning to Western platforms at some point and Bangladesh has to get there. In a few months we will no longer belong to the coterie of LDC nations when it is formally announced. We are no longer a foreign aid recipient, we are donors and foreign investors. If not now - then when?

It has become plain and clear through the Rohingya debacle that Russians and Chinese are definitely not more reliable development partners than Western ones. If both types of vendors are equally (un)reliable and equally costly, then shouldn't we choose the best one regardless of political camp?

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## Avicenna

Avicenna said:


> Based on my non scientific non professional opinion, I would rather have the Gripen or J-10C.
> 
> I DO NOT want any MiG-35.





Bilal9 said:


> So then - we have to really look at the advantages of Chinese and Russian platforms and if they outweigh the high MTBO and reliability figures of Western Platforms, besides simply cost, which does not apply any longer. And Westerners are liable to be just as reliable or unreliable a supplier.
> 
> We are no longer price buyers, we need to look at quality and reliability. Over time, a reliable platform costs less anyway. In Bengali - we have a saying 'Shostar tin obostha'. Cheap is just that, cheap.
> 
> Bangladesh AF experience with Yak 130 AJT, and even worse, Chinese K-8 AJT, has been pretty sub-par. If these rather simple training platforms are this bad, do we need to take a chance with the backbone MRCA and MMRCA platforms being Russian and Chinese? Maybe quantity component can be cheap for fielding large numbers of fighters, but quality component too? I have my doubts.
> 
> I believe we have seen @Bilal Khan (Quwa) bhai's analysis already a few pages back. Please review it again. That was a very realistic and factual analysis of Bangladesh situation and what we need to do going forward.
> 
> I don't think the argument "We are a third world nation with no alternative other than Russian and Chinese" flies any longer (no pun intended). At some point, we have to get out of that mindset.
> 
> Bangladesh may not be in India's position yet - to support Multiple types of platforms, but there is no denying that effort has to be made towards incorporating and transitioning to Western platforms at some point and Bangladesh has to get there. In a few months we will no longer belong to the coterie of LDC nations when it is formally announced. We are no longer a foreign aid recipient, we are donors and foreign investors. If not now - then when?
> 
> It has become plain and clear through the Rohingya debacle that Russians and Chinese are definitely not more reliable development partners than Western ones. If both types of vendors are equally (un)reliable and equally costly, then shouldn't we choose the best one regardless of political camp?



Just a thought. I wonder if Bangladesh can't lease some examples of ex-Swedish Air Force Gripen C/D in the interim much like Hungary and Czech Republic. This will keep immediate costs down. At the same time perhaps buy some time to outright purchase Gripen E/F if the economy improves more.

Who even makes these procurement decisions for the BAF? Is there a lack of imagination at play?

Regardless, politically Bangladesh is a moderate, potentially West leaning nation. I can't see any political hurdles to get the Gripen if Bangladesh has the money.

@A.P. Richelieu @UKBengali @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Just a thought. I wonder if Bangladesh can't lease some examples of ex-Swedish Air Force Gripen C/D in the interim much like Hungary and Czech Republic. This will keep immediate costs down. At the same time perhaps buy some time to outright purchase Gripen E/F if the economy improves more.
> 
> Who even makes these procurement decisions for the BAF? Is there a lack of imagination at play?
> 
> Regardless, politically Bangladesh is a moderate, potentially West leaning nation. I can't see any political hurdles to get the Gripen if Bangladesh has the money.
> 
> @A.P. Richelieu @UKBengali



I concur 100%. If possible we should lease a few of these fighters to see the prospect (adaptation to Bangladesh conditions etc.) before outright purchase. That being said - please see the following (Thai AF bought 12 in 2008, and they went full bore orders for 12 more in 2013 along with Erieye radar and CandC suite). Thailand Weather and scenario is not a heck of a lot different than ours, their training and standards may be a bit better though.

*How Thai Air Force acquire Gripen fleets*

_national January 14, 2017 18:53_

By The Nation

*Thailand aims to become a leading power in Asean by having one of the strongest air forces in the region by the end of this decade.*

In 2008, the Royal Thai Air Force spent up to Bt34 billion on the purchase of 12 Swedish-made Gripen fighter jets as part of an effort to replace the ageing F-5A/B jets.

The JAS 39 Gripen is a light, single-engine, multi-role fighter aircraft manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab.

The Royal Thai Air Force ordered a complete aircraft and command and control system from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration in a government-to-government deal, according to GlobalSecurity.org website.

The order includes a first batch of six Gripen C/D with associated equipment and services, one Saab 340 aircraft equipped with Erieye radar (AEW), a Saab 340 for transport and training plus an integrated command and control system with data links, the site said.

The second batch of six Gripen C fighters and another Saab 340 Erieye AEW was ordered in 2010 and the delivery completed in 2013.

The Gripen are now based at the Surat Thani airbase, where they replaced a depleted and rapidly ageing squadron of F5 fighters.

In early September 2013, during the delivery of three Gripen fighter jets, which was the last batch of the total of 12 Gripen jets, one of them was struck by lightning while flying over India. The accident caused minor damage to its electronic system, authorities said.

Later, while presiding over a ceremony to commission the Gripen Integrated Air Defence System at the Wing 7 Air Force base in Surat Thani, then Supreme Commander General Thanasak Patimapragorn, who is now a deputy premier, said that the Thai Air Force’s procurement of the Gripen fighters would make it a leading force in the Asean by 2019.

The Gripen jets will be an integral part in the building up of an Armed Forces network that will boost national defences.

Thailand is now the only country in the region with the Swedish planes in its fleet.

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## 帅的一匹

A PDF member tell me that There is no permanent friend and enemy in this world, so BAF just need to take the best offer. 
I think China is doing fine with BD in the long term.

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## Avicenna

wanglaokan said:


> A PDF member tell me that There is no permanent friend and enemy in this world, so BAF just need to take the best offer.
> I think China is doing fine with BD in the long term.



Bangladesh needs China. And I advocate for a strong China-Bangladesh relationship.

However, a mix of East and West would be good for BAF.

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## 帅的一匹

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh needs China. And I advocate for a strong China-Bangladesh relationship.
> 
> However, a mix of East and West would be good for BAF.


Absolutely


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> I concur 100%. If possible we should lease a few of these fighters to see the prospect (adaptation to Bangladesh conditions etc.) before outright purchase. That being said - please see the following (Thai AF bought 12 in 2008, and they went full bore orders for 12 more in 2013 along with Erieye radar and CandC suite). Thailand Weather and scenario is not a heck of a lot different than ours, their training and standards may be a bit better though.
> 
> *How Thai Air Force acquire Gripen fleets*
> 
> _national January 14, 2017 18:53_
> 
> By The Nation
> 
> *Thailand aims to become a leading power in Asean by having one of the strongest air forces in the region by the end of this decade.*
> 
> In 2008, the Royal Thai Air Force spent up to Bt34 billion on the purchase of 12 Swedish-made Gripen fighter jets as part of an effort to replace the ageing F-5A/B jets.
> 
> The JAS 39 Gripen is a light, single-engine, multi-role fighter aircraft manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab.
> 
> The Royal Thai Air Force ordered a complete aircraft and command and control system from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration in a government-to-government deal, according to GlobalSecurity.org website.
> 
> The order includes a first batch of six Gripen C/D with associated equipment and services, one Saab 340 aircraft equipped with Erieye radar (AEW), a Saab 340 for transport and training plus an integrated command and control system with data links, the site said.
> 
> The second batch of six Gripen C fighters and another Saab 340 Erieye AEW was ordered in 2010 and the delivery completed in 2013.
> 
> The Gripen are now based at the Surat Thani airbase, where they replaced a depleted and rapidly ageing squadron of F5 fighters.
> 
> In early September 2013, during the delivery of three Gripen fighter jets, which was the last batch of the total of 12 Gripen jets, one of them was struck by lightning while flying over India. The accident caused minor damage to its electronic system, authorities said.
> 
> Later, while presiding over a ceremony to commission the Gripen Integrated Air Defence System at the Wing 7 Air Force base in Surat Thani, then Supreme Commander General Thanasak Patimapragorn, who is now a deputy premier, said that the Thai Air Force’s procurement of the Gripen fighters would make it a leading force in the Asean by 2019.
> 
> The Gripen jets will be an integral part in the building up of an Armed Forces network that will boost national defences.
> 
> Thailand is now the only country in the region with the Swedish planes in its fleet.



This is exactly right. Not sure why Bangladesh can't do something similar?

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## The Ronin

Janbaz Rao said:


> Brother you nailed it.No body should even think about this in prevailing situation that PAK will even sell JF-17 model to BD. Reason behind is that the Indian influence in BD is at the peak right now.So PAK cannot take any risk.RAW can stage few mishaps very easily and then game will be over.There will be full fledged propaganda against technology and capability of JF-17 all over the world. JF-17 is in development phase so PAK cannot afford to take any kind of risk.
> I think PAK need 250 JF-17 of all blocks I,II and III.This target will be achieved in 2022.Till
> then PAK will accept few small orders from friendly countries only.Then PAK will move to its ultimate project of a 5th-generation fighter, medium altitude long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and munitions under the banner of “Project Azm” (i.e. resolve or determination).
> The AZM (resolve ) of BAF and PAF is quite different in scale and capability. BAF needs limited number of planes for border patrol where as PAK striving hard to be self sufficient in this field with the help of .
> Idea of self sufficiency is far more superior then getting expensive planes with string attached with no guarantee of spare parts.It does not matter how your kid look like but you still love him the most. JF-17 is the great achievement of a developing country like Pakistan.
> JF-17 and PAF are pride of nation and we know its way forward
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is only one possibility when PAK could take some calculated risk if BD is ready for long term dealing. If BD wants self sufficiency then it should follow PAK route.Order 100-200 planes with overhauling facility and complete TOT.It will be a great breakthrough in terms of technology and geopolitics of entire region.
> 
> 
> If BD is ready for joint venture to make 200 state of the art JF-17 then you are
> otherwise .
> 
> _Note: Please don't compare JF-17 with other planes unnecessarily.It is very close to our hearts .It really hurts when somebody criticize JF-17 in jealousy.
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Specially BD will be glad to know that JF 17 block 3 is nearing production which will be a 4+ generation fighter.This happened only in space of 15 years that JF 17 is entering its third version with already five JF 17 squadrons operational and JF 17 used in precision strikes .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JF-17 Block 3 should have following features :*
> 1) AESA radar
> 2) CFT
> 3) IRST
> 4) Datalink with Erieye and ZDK03
> 5) In-Flight Refueling
> 6) RAM paint
> 7) Integration of A-Darter missiles with HOBS capability and HMS/HMD (South African Archer / Denel Cobra HMD)
> 8) 13 hardpoints
> 9) WS-13 TVC engine with 22000+ lb thrust with afterburner



Oh my god!!! Can you believe this guy??!! We will sell JF-17 to India!! LMAO!! Nope we won't sell it to them!! We will sell them in Dholaikhal!! That will be a very good bargain!! Jealousy??!! Owwww you wish!! JF-17 is the last thing we want!! First you should check the possibility if we buy your mighty thunderrr or not before saying all those crap!! 13 hard point?? Show me the space for it?? Even big fighter like Su-30 have only 12 hard point. As Bilal Khan from QUWA didn't mention anything about increasing hard point in his article either. And the only country that needs border patrol is yours as Pakistan have terrorist threat from one side and India on the other side. You are not our defense expert to say how much fighter we need and where we should need. BD will have 160 various kinds of fighter after 2030. Good luck with your JF-17.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Avicenna said:


> Just a thought. I wonder if Bangladesh can't lease some examples of ex-Swedish Air Force Gripen C/D in the interim much like Hungary and Czech Republic. This will keep immediate costs down. At the same time perhaps buy some time to outright purchase Gripen E/F if the economy improves more.
> 
> Who even makes these procurement decisions for the BAF? Is there a lack of imagination at play?
> 
> Regardless, politically Bangladesh is a moderate, potentially West leaning nation. I can't see any political hurdles to get the Gripen if Bangladesh has the money.
> 
> @A.P. Richelieu @UKBengali @Bilal Khan (Quwa)



Right now, I would say no. The Air Force is believed to need all available Gripen Cs.

I think that there may be some Gripen As in storage that can be updated to Gripen C.

The main plan is to introduce 60-70 Gripen E, and keep the Gripen D dual seaters.
The Gripen Cs will not be cannibalized for the Gripen E as was originally planned,
mainly because that would reduce the strength of the Air Force as aircraft would be pulled out
for the rebuild.
The faith of the surplus Gripen Cs are still to be determined.
When Gripen E delivery starts, the current Gripen C might be available for sales or for lease,
but some political parties are in favour of keeping them in the Air Force, to increase the strength.

SAAB is of course offering new build Gripen C/Ds if people are interested.



The Good said:


> BD political opponents and civil society will kill the Govt with criticism if they go for such costly option. If anything such happens, should be secret deal. And with westerners its not possible. For civil society its better to not have any weapon at all. Their perception comes through Mukti Guerilla warfare. No need of air force etc BS. First people should be bombarded with brainstorming to make ways for these sophisticated items.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I saw Mig29 in your avatar before. For discussion purpose, is it possible to fit BD's existing Chinese Russian missiles in the Gripen?



There are a few issues.
Mechanically, the missiles must be possible to mount on the hardpoint.
Maybe the hardpoints need to be modified.
Then there is a need to communicate with the missile, so you need a communication bus.
Have no clue what the missiles require. A bridge between the NATO standard bus used by Gripen and the bus used by the missiles may be needed.
Finally, if the Gripen can communicate with the missile on a hardware level, you need to support the communication protocol to use it.
For this, you need information from the missile manufacturer.
The S/W architecture of Gripen E will allow Bangla-Desh to write their own S/W as an App that can be uploaded to the Gripen E, without requalifying the critical flight control system.
IIRC this is the way to introduce support for new weapons.

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## Flynn Swagmire

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The S/W architecture of Gripen E will allow Bangla-Desh to write their own S/W as an App that can be uploaded to the Gripen E, without requalifying the critical flight control system.
> IIRC this is the way to introduce support for new weapons.


Thats why I like Gripen and want to see it in BAF! But...

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## Bilal9

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I think that there may be some Gripen As in storage that can be updated to Gripen C.



Were the ones supplied to Thailand in 2013 stored Gripen 'A's upgraded to Gripen 'C's? How about the ones leased to Hungary, the Czech Republic and other countries?

I understand in every 12 supplied - you need to have a minimum of two double seaters (Gripen D)?

Also - I understand in 2013 Thailand was given a complete package of 12 Gripens with a SAAB 340 EriEye. Please share any detail you know about this. Specifically - I'm curious how easy/difficult it will be to incorporate and integrate datafeed from EriEye system and the Gripens into a Maritime Tactical Data Link (TDL) scenario which includes inputs from Bangladesh Navy (BN) vessels and their sensors/radars (BN has started specifying TDL and invited RFP from vendors. Per the tender document TDL is strictly going to be Western origin or NATO standard insofar can be gauged)...the Thais claim their Gripens have been integrated into their Naval TDL system successfully already. 

At this time - I'd like to ask @Bilal Khan (Quwa) bhai to weigh in on the TDL factor as well please. My Thanks in advance....

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## A.P. Richelieu

Bilal9 said:


> Were the ones supplied to Thailand in 2013 stored Gripen 'A's upgraded to Gripen 'C's? How about the ones leased to Hungary, the Czech Republic and other countries?
> 
> I understand in every 12 supplied - you need to have a minimum of two double seaters (Gripen D)?
> 
> Also - I understand in 2013 Thailand was given a complete package of 12 Gripens with a SAAB 340 EriEye. Please share any detail you know about this. Specifically - I'm curious how easy/difficult it will be to incorporate and integrate datafeed from EriEye system and the Gripens into a Maritime Tactical Data Link (TDL) scenario which includes inputs from Bangladesh Navy (BN) vessels and their sensors/radars (BN has started specifying TDL and invited RFP from vendors. Per the tender document TDL is strictly going to be Western origin or NATO standard insofar can be gauged)...the Thais claim their Gripens have been integrated into their Naval TDL system successfully already.
> 
> At this time - I'd like to ask @Bilal Khan (Quwa) bhai to weigh in on the TDL factor as well please. My Thanks in advance....


The Thai and Hungarian Gripen Cs were rebuilt Gripen A.
As for the Gripen D, there is no requirement to have any.
They are all rebuilt from Gripen As, and you need two Gripen A, to build one Gripen D.
The Czech Gripens came from the batch of aircrafts which were Gripen C to start with.

Do not know anything abouth the BD TDL.

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## Bilal9

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Do not know anything abouth the BD TDL.



I included the link, here is the tender specification in acrobat format again, your response is entirely optional. If you have friends at Ericsson I'm sure they'd be delighted to know as it came out less than a month ago. 

http://www.dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1035.pdf

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## UKBengali

A.P. Richelieu said:


> SAAB is of course offering new build Gripen C/Ds if people are interested.



SAAB has brought out a new radar for Gripen C called the PS-05/A Mark 4:

https://saabgroup.com/sv/Media/news-press/news/2015-04/upgraded-ps-05a-radar-gives-gripen-cd/

"A new Air-to-Air mode has been implemented and demonstrated which takes full advantage of the signal processing capacity and the flexible waveform generation in PS-05/A Mk4. This mode increases acquisition range with 100% at low altitudes compared to previous version of PS- 05/A. This radar mode will also be useful for detection of targets with very low Radar Cross Section. The Meteor missile downlink is optimized to maintain radar performance during long-range data linking scenarios"

100% increase in acquisition range is just amazing!

Are you able to advise if this new radar on Gripen C means that it is comparable to Gripen E now?

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## Tanveer666

I was wondering, if hypothetically BD were to procure Gripen or any western platform, would the current lot of YAk-130's and K-8's be sufficient for training?


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## UKBengali

Tanveer666 said:


> I was wondering, if hypothetically BD were Gripen or any western platform, would the current lot of YAk-130's and K-8's be sufficient for training?



Yes. Yak-130 can train for _any_ 4th or 5th generation fighter.

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## A.P. Richelieu

UKBengali said:


> SAAB has brought out a new radar for Gripen C called the PS-05/A Mark 4:
> 
> https://saabgroup.com/sv/Media/news-press/news/2015-04/upgraded-ps-05a-radar-gives-gripen-cd/
> 
> "A new Air-to-Air mode has been implemented and demonstrated which takes full advantage of the signal processing capacity and the flexible waveform generation in PS-05/A Mk4. This mode increases acquisition range with 100% at low altitudes compared to previous version of PS- 05/A. This radar mode will also be useful for detection of targets with very low Radar Cross Section. The Meteor missile downlink is optimized to maintain radar performance during long-range data linking scenarios"
> 
> 100% increase in acquisition range is just amazing!
> 
> Are you able to advise if this new radar on Gripen C means that it is comparable to Gripen E now?



This is basically replacing the original signal processing unit of the PS/05 with a new much more powerful unit.
The new performance is used to increase the detection capability vs stealth targets.
The previous version applied a filter which filtered away targets smaller than ? m2.
This filter is now removed, which increases the number of targets which has to be processed.
By implementing the algorithms in programmable H/W, this can still be handled.

It is still not an AESA radar, and will not have as many modes as the Selex Raven radar in Gripen E. It is lacking the SAR mode, IIRC.
The Raven radar in Gripen E, even if it is a Selex product, has been developed in cooperation with the SAAB-Ericsson radar department, so it would be surprising if it did not support the stealth detection functionality of the PS/05.
SAAB-Ericsson has an AESA follow-on which of course builds on the knowledge gained by developing the PS/05 and to a certain extent the Raven.
This uses GaN instead of the GaAs used in all other fighter radars, which can increase the detection range by maybe 70%.
SAAB is out on the market selling GaN based radar for ground and AWACS application,
but will only productize the fighter radar together with an end customer.
It has been offered to India, for their MII single engine tender.

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

BAC is planning to start making avionics components soon. They have a plan to make many of the electrical boards and different types of avionics components at BAC premises to ensure spares are readily available.

You guys already know about their plans to make rubber and polymer components of all their in-service aircraft.
Not only this, BAC is making seeker and guidance system of air defence missiles whilst BOF makes bodies for the missiles at the highly secretive Air Defence Factory opened with China's technical assistance.
Source- You know who.

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## BDforever

The Ronin said:


> BAC is planning to start making avionics components soon. They have a plan to make many of the electrical boards and different types of avionics components at BAC premises to ensure spares are readily available.
> 
> You guys already know about their plans to make rubber and polymer components of all their in-service aircraft.
> Not only this, BAC is making seeker and guidance system of air defence missiles whilst BOF makes bodies for the missiles at the highly secretive Air Defence Factory opened with China's technical assistance.
> Source- You know who.


your source is not reliable because 'The Good' BD member did not approved it just like he did not approve my 'Naval Aviation plan by 2025' thread.

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## The Ronin

BDforever said:


> your source is not reliable because 'The Good' BD member did not approved it just like he did not approve my 'Naval Aviation plan by 2025' thread.



Well i don't blame him. We can't be 100% sure about some news unless we see these in 2-3 more sources or with hard evidence. And when the supply comes then there is no chance for us to doubt. And we can't blame BD military either it's not their fault if defense purchase plan gets changed, delayed or canceled.

Btw there's another rumor that BAC will produce some UCAV components too.

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## The Ronin

Straight outta M.R.O plant! 
A BAF Mi-171 seen during a test flight at Tejgaon.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


>



Are those practice bombs hanging underneath? looks like it.

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## The Ronin

"Bangladesh Air Force bases. New fighter bases are being developed in Sylhet (proper) and Barisal. Cox's Bazar is used as a FOB. It can be used to perform SEADS on Myanmar forces in case of war.

For its size Bangladesh has enough air bases. All they need is adequate number of aircraft and air defence systems now."
" In case of any emergency, airport runways would be targeted, which is why, more active runways are required to keep planes flying... reminder of some old runways - Thakurgaon, Shamshernagar, Lalmonirhat, Tangail, Comilla, Ishwardi, as well as Rajshahi, Saidpur, Bogra, Patuakhali... Feni airport had been purposefully destroyed"
"Cox's Bazar was turned into a full base from a FOB last year. They are probably building residential facilities right now"

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## Arthur

The Ronin said:


> Thakurgaon, Shamshernagar, Lalmonirhat, Tangail, Comilla, Ishwardi, as well as Rajshahi, Saidpur, Bogra, Patuakhali... Feni airport had been purposefully destroyed"



Not really. Other than the Feni airfield, all the airfields were renovated to STOL ports. Comilla, Thakurgaon, Rajshahi, Sayedpur Airports are fully capable of supporting take off and landing of STOL capable aircrafts.

Lalmonirhat and Patuakhali airfields don't have much of a runway ATM, but the lands are under the control of Civil Aviation Authority.

Tangail airfield was turned into a BAF Radar base. There is proposal to build a Air base for BAF here, and make it the main operations base of BAF. Additionally Airports and bases will be built in Khulna and CHT.

Shamshernagar and Patukhali Airfields will be upgraded to full fledged Air Bases. Shamshernagar for Airforce, Patuakhali for Navy.

All these airfields were built during the British period during WW2. So it's normall that some less important runways won't be renovated to save budget.

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## monitor



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## Bengal Tiger 71

Govt. need to repair Thakurgaon air port for BAF base, it will be the strategical base near the chicken neck.

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## TopCat

Khan saheb said:


> Not really. Other than the Feni airfield, all the airfields were renovated to STOL ports. Comilla, Thakurgaon, Rajshahi, Sayedpur Airports are fully capable of supporting take off and landing of STOL capable aircrafts.
> 
> Lalmonirhat and Patuakhali airfields don't have much of a runway ATM, but the lands are under the control of Civil Aviation Authority.
> 
> Tangail airfield was turned into a BAF Radar base. There is proposal to build a Air base for BAF here, and make it the main operations base of BAF. Additionally Airports and bases will be built in Khulna and CHT.
> 
> Shamshernagar and Patukhali Airfields will be upgraded to full fledged Air Bases. Shamshernagar for Airforce, Patuakhali for Navy.
> 
> All these airfields were built during the British period during WW2. So it's normall that some less important runways won't be renovated to save budget.


Looks like no of airports are bigger than no of war worthy aircraft of bangaldesh air force. No?

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Looks like no of airports are bigger than no of war worthy aircraft of bangaldesh air force. No?



LOL there are more air bases according to that map than there are MiG-29s in the inventory.

Pathetic.

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> LOL there are more air bases according to that map than there are MiG-29s in the inventory.
> 
> Pathetic.



Well thanks to Golapi for that, lets hope things will change starting from this year with MMRCA deal by G2G and possibly the MRCA tender too.


----------



## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> 4 operational Mig-29?? 20% of Yak-130? Where did you get those figure from?  We lost 3 Yak-130, one can be repaired one will be given by Russia free cause the first one crashed because of faulty FBW before warranty expired just receiving after 1 year. And we have 8 Mig-29SE, all are operational, can be spotted often flying fully armed. How's your second hand Mig-29's fleet?? Heard only 12 are operational now, can find only one pic with full armament. And More MRCA,MMRCA and AJT will be procured so don't worry.




To be fair, i have never seen more than 3 migs flying together in formation in recent years.


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## Arthur

TopCat said:


> Looks like no of airports are bigger than no of war worthy aircraft of bangaldesh air force. No?


Airports are for civilian use not military. Having many Airports/Airfields doesn't necessarily mean we have to have air force base or deploy combat aircraft in every single one of them. War situations are different matter.



Avicenna said:


> LOL there are more air bases according to that map than there are MiG-29s in the inventory.
> 
> Pathetic.


BAF has only 4 operational Air bases. Jessor, Dhaka, Chittagong and Cox's Bazar. This map shows the rough locations of some of the airport/airfields under the control of Bangladesh civil aviation authority. And then they missed a few. For example there is two more air fields in Chittagong Division.



The Ronin said:


> Well thanks to Golapi for that, lets hope things will change starting from this year with MMRCA deal by G2G and possibly the MRCA tender too.



Not only Golapi. To be fair none of our gov. never had much of a vision about BAF.
Not a fan of Golapi. But we must call a spade a spade. BAF is a collective failure of our political and military establishment. One must accept the truth, if he/she wants to improve this situation. Acceptance shows the path to amend the mistakes.

Goodday.

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## The Ronin

Khan saheb said:


> Not only Golapi. To be fair none of our gov. never had much of a vision about BAF.
> Not a fan of Golapi. But you must call a spade a spade. BAF is a collective failure of our political and military establishment. One must accept the truth, if he/she wants to improve this situation. Acceptance shows the path to amend the mistakes.



Agree, BAF has their faults too. I remember we lost few fighters and helicopters because of their negligence in a cyclone. Btw we didn't get the refund after canceling the order, did we? So shouldn't govt ask Khaleda to pay them back for wasting country's money?

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## The Ronin

Serial No- 503










Tanveer666 said:


> To be fair, i have never seen more than 3 migs flying together in formation in recent years.



Happy??

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Serial No- 503
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy??



Thanks for the pics. Beautiful. 

But in which of those pictures are 3 or more aircraft flying in formation?


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> But in which of those pictures are 3 or more aircraft flying in formation?



Looks like we usually fly 3 Mig-29 in formation that's far i can find on the Internet, but i can give you a mix formation of our fighter. Anyway here are two photos.Damn!! Samee, Tasdid or Sonet vai would be more helpful here.









Any way this is last year's promo by BAF, if you look closely in 48 seconds there are 4 fighters, though i am not sure if the last one really Mig-29 or not.






@Tanveer666 mone hoy oto borolok hoi nai 4 ta double engine fighter eksathe fly koranor moto.

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## Bilal9



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## tarpitz

The Ronin said:


> 4 operational Mig-29?? 20% of Yak-130? Where did you get those figure from?  We lost 3 Yak-130, one can be repaired one will be given by Russia free cause the first one crashed because of faulty FBW before warranty expired just receiving after 1 year, don't know if other will given free by Russia or not cause investigation isn't completed yet. And we have 8 Mig-29SE, all are operational, can be spotted often flying fully armed. How's your second hand Mig-29's fleet?? Heard only 12 are operational now, can find only one pic with full armament. And More MRCA,MMRCA and AJT will be procured so don't worry.


For the MiGs, other BD members told different stories.




For the Yak, no credible information from Russian side.

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## The Ronin

@tarpitz only one member said that. i gave you all 8's photos from BAF's and Jet Photo's site.

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## BDforever

tarpitz said:


> For the MiGs, other BD members told different stories.
> View attachment 449084
> 
> For the Yak, no credible information from Russian side.


@Cannon Fodder congratz



The Ronin said:


> Any way this is last year's promo by BAF, if you look closely in 48 seconds there are 4 fighters, though i am not sure if the last one really Mig-29 or not.


before going to 48 seconds, you missed 37 seconds  (pause at 37 seconds)

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## The Ronin

BDforever said:


> before going to 48 seconds, you missed 37 seconds  (pause at 37 seconds)



Vai that was cut scene edited actually D We only have two UB version but notice, there are 3.

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## Flynn Swagmire

tarpitz said:


> For the MiGs, other BD members told different stories.
> View attachment 449084
> 
> For the Yak, no credible information from Russian side.


CONgratulations! You have won the "Golden Banana" award for digging into the only thread I started in my entire PDF time (5 years ago) and finding the most uptodate and wisest info I posted, ever...


BDforever said:


> @Cannon Fodder congratz

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## Trumpcard

Nice 


The Ronin said:


> Looks like we usually fly 3 Mig-29 in formation that's far i can find on the Internet, but i can give you a mix formation of our fighter. Anyway here are two photos.Damn!! Samee, Tasdid or Sonet vai would be more helpful here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any way this is last year's promo by BAF, if you look closely in 48 seconds there are 4 fighters, though i am not sure if the last one really Mig-29 or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Tanveer666 mone hoy oto borolok hoi nai 4 ta double engine fighter eksathe fly koranor moto.



Nice video!

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## monitor



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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=752686784935415

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## Bilal9

monitor said:


> View attachment 449219

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## The Ronin

Bilal9 said:


>



The last pic is a South African Mi-24 upgraded by Poland. Damn!! If we could buy something like this instead of Mi-35.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> The last pic is a South African Mi-24 upgraded by Poland. Damn!! If we could buy something like this instead of Mi-35.



Well once we buy the platforms, then further upgrades down the line for newer COIN, TOW and Laser-designated anti-tank missiles will be possible. Mi 35 seems to have become very popular nowadays with almost all modern armies and aftermarket options will be plentiful no doubt....

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## TopCat

tarpitz said:


> MAF MiG 29SE are being upgraded to SM standard.
> And finally. . .
> View attachment 449332
> 
> View attachment 449333


Dude post these in the MM defence forum. Reported

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## ghost250

BDforever said:


> MAF Mig29 did not get any major upgrades including keeping old radar lol


nd most probably they r buying those old su-30k which were in service with indian airforce,angola bought 12 of those nd the rest 6 are for burmese airforce..

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## TopCat

shourov323 said:


> nd most probably they r buying those old su-30k which were in service with indian airforce,angola bought 12 of those nd the rest 6 are for burmese airforce..


do they have anything left in them?

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> do they have anything left in them?



These may have been the ones that Russia was trying to sell to BAF.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> These may have been the ones that Russia was trying to sell to BAF.


Nope.. BD tender document clearly stated brand new and the manufacturing date should not be less than jan 2017


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Nope.. BD tender document clearly stated brand new and the manufacturing date should not be less than jan 2017



There were reports that Russia was trying to convince BAF to buy SU-30Ks which was rejected.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> There were reports that Russia was trying to convince BAF to buy SU-30Ks which was rejected.


No they wanted to sell newly built older model with digital display. They probably did not agree to disclose the software interfaces so that BD could use ammunition from other sources. Thats where it snagged I suspect. I may be wrong.

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## The Ronin



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## Nike

USMC will sold their cobra surplus

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## monitor



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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

Cox's Bazaar air port master plan. Air Force Chief also there present. Source- nasir uddin, plane spotters Bangladesh

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## Flynn Swagmire

The Ronin said:


> Cox's Bazaar air port master plan. Air Force Chief also there present. Source- nasir uddin, plane spotters Bangladesh


Military only or dual purpose?


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## monitor

Cannon Fodder said:


> Military only or dual purpose?


Air chief's present hints this airport Can be use Air force too . A dedicated Airbase also possible.

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## The Ronin

Btw don't know if its true or not but one guy is saying in a post related to this Cox's Bazar base that someone in the parliament said that we are buying 1 squadron (not 8) MRCA for Cox's Bazar base. I trust this guy, cause he never gives false info and he is a hardcore defense enthusiastic. Knows many thing and keeps check on lots of news on BD's military development. Still can anyone check today's parliament assembly's video?



Cannon Fodder said:


> Military only or dual purpose?



Dual purpose.

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## Flynn Swagmire

monitor said:


> Air chief's present hints this airport Can be use Air force too . A dedicated Airbase also possible.


Dedicated Airbase will require more land and investments! Dual purpose Airport will save land and money (I think so)...

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## The Ronin

This place. Construction works for expansion is visible here.

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> Btw don't know if its true or not but one guy is saying in a post related to this Cox's Bazar base that someone in the parliament said that we are buying 1 squadron (not 8) MRCA for Cox's Bazar base. I trust this guy, cause he never gives false info and he is a hardcore defense enthusiastic. Knows many thing and keeps check on lots of news on BD's military development. Still can anyone check today's parliament assembly's video?
> 
> 
> 
> Dual purpose.



1 squadron = 16 planes?


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## ghost250

UKBengali said:


> 1 squadron = 16 planes?


something "big" is coming..


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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> 1 squadron = 16 planes?



looks like it. Law minister naki bolse.

@shourov323 i think you should change your avatar bro.  I got your facebook id. 

@UKBengali 
http://m.risingbd.com/national/news...-তাল-মিলিয়ে-তিন-বাহিনীতে-আধুনিক-যুদ্ধ-সরঞ্জাম

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> looks like it. Law minister naki bolse.
> 
> @shourov323 i think you should change your avatar bro.  I got your facebook id.
> 
> @UKBengali
> http://m.risingbd.com/national/news...-তাল-মিলিয়ে-তিন-বাহিনীতে-আধুনিক-যুদ্ধ-সরঞ্জাম


naAaaAaAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaa...eeee hote pare naaaaa...

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## monitor



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## bd_4_ever

monitor said:


> View attachment 449615



So Sukhois are confirmed? I thought their production gets over in 2022. What about that? Supplies/Support?

And MIGs too. So its going to be all Russian as expected long back. Nothing so 'big' in it, is it.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

So both BD & MM are going to procure Su30.


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## Bilal9

monitor said:


> View attachment 449615



You guys just made my week. 






In any case, they should requisition that whole area and build protection on the coastal side against tsunami and tidal surges. MMRCA stationed there need to be protected against natural disasters unlike what happened to the MiG-19s in CTG back in the day.

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## BDforever

The Ronin said:


> @shourov323 i think you should change your avatar bro.  I got your facebook id.

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## The Ronin



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## Eagl3Eyes

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> So both BD & MM are going to procure Su30.


Why Su30 not Su35 ?

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## Bengal Tiger 71

BD should go for Su 35 1 sqd., J10B/F15E 3-4sqd.. its time to think bigger. govt. are expending air bases so its a minimum requirement till 2022.


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## Dazzler

looks damn cool, BGI with four pl-5EII..

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## BDforever

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Is 1 squadron not 12-24 aircraft? Not sure , Wikipedia suggest something but not the exact number and confusing .
> Do you know how many planes made in 1 squadron? This information will be helpful thanks .


yes 12-24 units, varies country to country and role. We maintain 16 units= 1 squadron while India maintain 18 units=1 squadron for fighter jets and 12 units for trainers probably.

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## Centaur

BDforever said:


> yes 12-24 units, varies country to country and role. We maintain 16 units= 1 squadron while India maintain 18 units=1 squadron for fighter jets and 12 units for trainers probably.


Ok thank you very much brother for this information.

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## ghost250

Brand new k-8 spotted at jessore..

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## UKBengali

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 450306
> 
> Brand new k-8 spotted at jessore..



Think this may be the batch of 9 BAF ordered
last year.

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## masud



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## The Ronin

The Bangladesh Air Force has purchase one squadron of J-10C single engine multi-role combat aircraft along with another 23 more K-8W intermediate jet trainers in a separate deal alongside the MRCA procurements from Russia.

The Hongdu Aviation Industry Group (HAIG) started.....

https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-...buys-j-10c-fighters-k-8w-trainers-from-china/

Was there any deal in 2017?


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## BDforever

The Ronin said:


> View attachment 450373
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force has purchase one squadron of J-10C single engine multi-role combat aircraft along with another 23 more K-8W intermediate jet trainers in a separate deal alongside the MRCA procurements from Russia.
> 
> The Hongdu Aviation Industry Group (HAIG) started.....
> 
> https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-...buys-j-10c-fighters-k-8w-trainers-from-china/
> 
> Was there any deal in 2017?


as far as i know, a Chinese delegation was suppose to come in April last year and make a deal. But I did not get any news further.

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## The Ronin

BDforever said:


> as far as i know, a Chinese delegation was suppose to come in April last year and make a deal. But I did not get any news further.



They came according to Plane Spotters BD, well Mig-35 or J-10 whichever BAF will buy it's ok but hope China will give the latest TVC engine of J-10C cause i am worried about this only thing. Double engine and cost effective single engine combo not bad for BAF.

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> They came according to Plane Spotters BD, well Mig-35 or J-10 whichever BAF will buy it's ok but hope China will give the latest TVC engine of J-10C cause i am worried about this only thing. Double engine and cost effective single engine combo not bad for BAF.


YOu really dont need TVC in a single engine aircraft. You can achieve the desired maneuverability with canard.

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## The Ronin

Ummm looks like the deal was signed in March, first batch of BAF pilots completed training in China, more were sent at the end of last year. This is some serious claim (there is also a talking about operating both J-10 and Mig-35 but lets not talki about that). I really want to create a separate thread but....... 



TopCat said:


> YOu really dont need TVC in a single engine aircraft. You can achieve the desired maneuverability with canard.



Just hoping it comes with a good engine, that's it.

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## Russell

If this is true...half the people in that K-8 thread need to take the walk of shame...

So much impotent rage

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## Bengal Tiger 71

BD think tankers should keep in mind that Russia & China is now same forum so buy any thing from this country next one should Europe.J10C from China other one from Europe, MBT2000 from china other one EU, never depend one country/Coalition. now the team for BD keep in mind two neighbor Turkey will help against both, Europe against MM, China against Babu moshai, Russia for only strengthening forces.but don't let go Russia becoz they are going to become next decade of no. one power in the world.

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## UKBengali

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BD think tankers should keep in mind that Russia & China is now same forum so buy any thing from this country next one should Europe.J10C from China other one from Europe, MBT2000 from china other one EU, never depend one country/Coalition. now the team for BD keep in mind two neighbor Turkey will help against both, Europe against MM, China against Babu moshai, Russia for only strengthening forces.but don't let go Russia becoz they are going to become next decade of no. one power in the world.




Brilliant post bhai.

I would not buy anything bar the SU-30SME from Russia, and that is only because it has a large range and weapons load that BD cannot get anywhere else. Russia will within a decade fall far behind the US, EU and China in weapons technology and so it is a lost cause.

Turkey in the next 10-15 years will become a key supplier for BD as it's weapons technology matures and can offer nearly the full range of weapons that BD military needs.

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Ummm *looks like the deal was signed in March*, first batch of BAF pilots completed training in China, more were sent at the end of last year. This is some serious claim (there is also a talking about operating both J-10 and Mig-35 but lets not talki about that). I really want to create a separate thread but.......
> 
> 
> 
> Just hoping it comes with a good engine, that's it.



If such a deal was signed, wouldn't there be official statements from both BD and china?


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## The Ronin

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BD think tankers should keep in mind that Russia & China is now same forum so buy any thing from this country next one should Europe.J10C from China other one from Europe, MBT2000 from china other one EU, never depend one country/Coalition. now the team for BD keep in mind two neighbor Turkey will help against both, Europe against MM, China against Babu moshai, Russia for only strengthening forces.but don't let go Russia becoz they are going to become next decade of no. one power in the world.



And who will give money for these mix platform and face maintenance nightmare?? Not everyone posses the money and will to buy and handle all these mix platforms like India and ME countries. Russia and China will be our major arms supplier for long time.



Tanveer666 said:


> If such a deal was signed, wouldn't there be official statements from both BD and china?



Look not everything get published when a country buy or sell any military hardware. I remember how long everyone argued about BAF trainer AW-119's photo with Bangladesh's photo on it from factory cause some thought it's for BAF and some thought it's for an civil aviation. Many of us thought it's AW-159 which it wasn't.







Same can be said about AW-159 nobody said we are gonna buy except a tender which indicated the purchase. But photo emerged with our pilot taking training on it.






Same thing is happening with Oerlikon GDF too, army just showed a plan but nobody announced the purchase, yet there's a tender for 35mm ammo.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> This is the combat radius of all BAF front line fighter aircraft from their main fighter bases.
> 
> As you can see even without mid air refuelling arrangement BAF fighters can cover Myanmar, North East India including West Bengal and Bihar, Nepal and Bhutan.
> 
> This long range is deterrence enough as multiple deep sea ports, international airports, hydroelectricity dams, powerplants, bridges and defence industries are within reach of Bangladeshi fighter aircraft.
> 
> There is 3 different radius for different fighters. This includes the future aircrafts of BAF.



This doesn't seem right.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Why?? Can't Su-30, Su-35 do this??



Firstly, assuming BAF gets its hands on either Flanker variant, in theory this may be possible. (Based on ideal circumstances to get maximum theoretical radius of action on these types.)

In reality, the radius is MUCH MUCH less. Any sort of combat, low level flying, carrying of ordanance will degrade range of course.

Also, I highly doubt BAF can carry out operations deep into India (LOL!) or Myanmar. 

Lets not embarrass ourselves with simplistic graphics such as this.

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## The Ronin

J-10 procurement intensified!!!

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2044816795794553

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## Nahid

we should sell 8 mig-29, replaced it with 16 SU-30MKB (Future 32 unit). F-7 Replaced by J-10C/D (Future 64 Unit).

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## UKBengali

Nahid said:


> we should sell 8 mig-29, replaced it with 16 SU-30MKB (Future 32 unit). F-7 Replaced by J-10C/D (Future 64 Unit).



The Mig-29s have around 10 years of service life left in them and so not going to be around forever.
Best thing about those 8 Mig-29s is that both India and Myanmar have them in numbers. BAF pilots know this aircraft inside out and so useful to keep, even though it is a maintenance issue.

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## The Ronin

Why BAF don't buy Malaysian Mig-29N as a stop gap and fill the Mig squadron?? Anyway......

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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> Why BAF don't buy Malaysian Mig-29N as a stop gap and fill the Mig squadron?? Anyway......
> 
> View attachment 450825




So the position now is 3 frontline fighters...I would be very happy if this materialises. 

On the basis of the above plan BAF will be able to provide credible defense against our primary enemy.


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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Why BAF don't buy Malaysian Mig-29N as a stop gap and fill the Mig squadron?? Anyway......
> 
> View attachment 450825



Thats alot of airplanes. I'm gonna take this with a big grain of salt.


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## The Ronin

During BAF chief air marshal Abu Esrar's visit in China in 2016, PLAAF chief Lt General Ding Laihang. presented him a J-10B replica.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> During BAF chief air marshal Abu Esrar's visit in China in 2016, PLAAF chief Lt General Ding Laihang. presented him a J-10B replica.



Boy that is a 'loaded' image with meaning - if anything...and in 2016 too.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1692170727472636

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## Dot

Current BAF chief Air Marshal Abu Esrar in an old photo. Credit: DTB

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## Avicenna

Nice A-5. Do you have any more classic pics?


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Nice A-5. Do you have any more classic pics?



First aircrafts of BAF. Kilo Fight's crew.

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Nice A-5. Do you have any more classic pics?


https://www.baf.mil.bd/?page_id=221

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Nice A-5. Do you have any more classic pics?

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## Avicenna

That J-6 banking with the drop tanks in that camouflage looks so menacing.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Times to One Step Ahead-BAF
Myanmar Buying Su30 then why not BAF go for Su35. Basically it is costly but 1sqd. is enough for kickoff.

*Specifications (Su-35S)*
*



*


*General characteristics*


*Crew:* 1
*Length:* 21.9 m (72 ft 11 in)
*Wingspan:* (with wingtip pods) 15.3 m (50 ft 2 in)
*Height:* 5.9 m (19 ft 5 in)
*Wing area:* 62 m² (667 ft²)
*Empty weight:* 17,200 kg[_citation needed_] (37,920 lb)
*Loaded weight:* 25,300 kg (56,660 lb) at 50% internal fuel
*Max. takeoff weight:* 34,500 kg (76,060 lb)
*Fuel capacity:* 11,500 kg (25,400 lb) internally
*Powerplant:* 2 × Saturn AL-41F1S afterburning turbofans
*Dry thrust:* 86.3 kN (19,400 lbf) each
*Thrust with afterburner:* 142 kN (31,900 lbf) each

*Performance*


*Maximum speed:*
*At altitude:* Mach 2.25 (2,400 km/h; 1,490 mph)
*At sea level:* Mach 1.13 (1,400 km/h; 870 mph)

*Range:*
*At altitude:* 3,600 km (2,240 mi; 1,940 nmi)
*At sea level:* 1,580 km (980 mi; 850 nmi)

*Ferry range:* 4,500 km (2,800 mi; 2,430 nmi) with 2 external fuel tanks
*Service ceiling:* 18,000 m (59,100 ft)
*Rate of climb:* >280 m/s (>55,000 ft/min)
*Wing loading:*
*With 50% fuel:* 408 kg/m² (84.9 lb/ft²)
*With full internal fuel:* 500.8 kg/m² ()

*Thrust/weight:* 1.13 at 50% fuel (0.92 with full internal fuel)
*Maximum g-load:* +9 g
*Armament*


*Guns:* 1 × internal 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-301 autocannon with 150 rounds
*Hardpoints:* 12 hardpoints, consisting of 2 wingtip rails, and 10 wing and fuselage stations with a capacity of 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of ordnance and provisions to carry combinations of:
*Rockets:* S-25
*Missiles:*
Air-to-air missiles:
8 × R-27RE/TE
R-40
R-60
6 × R-73E
12 × R-77M/P/T
6 × R-74

Air-to-surface missiles:
Kh-25ML
6 × Kh-29L/TE
3 × 3M-14AE

Anti-ship missiles:
3 × 3M-54AE1
6 × Kh-31A/AD
Kh-35U
5 × Kh-59MK
1 × Yakhont

Anti-radiation missiles:
Kh-25MP
6 × Kh-31P/PD
5 × Kh-58UShE


*Bombs:*
8 × KAB-500KR TV-guided bombs
8 × KAB-500L laser-guided bombs
8 × KAB-500OD guided bombs
8 × KAB-500S-E satellite-guided bombs
3 × KAB-1500KR TV-guided bombs
3 × KAB-1500L laser-guided bombs
GBU-500 laser-guided bomb
GBU-500T TV-guided bomb
GBU-1000 laser-guided bomb
GBU-1000T TV-guided bomb


*Avionics*


Irbis-E passive electronically scanned array radar
OLS-35 infra-red search and track system
L175M Khibiny-M electronic countermeasures system.
*Specifications (SU 30 SME)
*




*General characteristics*


*Crew:* 2
*Length:* 21.935 m (73 ft)
*Wingspan:* 14.7 m (48 ft 3 in)
*Height:* 6.36 m (20 ft 10 in)
*Wing area:* 62 m² (667 ft²)
*Empty weight:* 17,700 kg (39,021 lb)
*Loaded weight:* 24,900 kg (54,900 lb) with 56% fuel
*Max. takeoff weight:* 34,500 kg (76,060 lb)
*Fuel capacity:* 9,400 kg (20,724 lb) internally[101]
*Powerplant:* 2 × Saturn AL-31FL turbofans
*Dry thrust:* 74.5 kN (16,750 lbf) each
*Thrust with afterburner:* 122.58 kN (27,560 lbf) each

*Performance*


*Maximum speed:* Mach 2.0 (2,120 km/h; 1,320 mph) at altitude
*Range:* 3,000 km (1,860 mi; 1,620 nmi) at altitude
*Service ceiling:* 17,300 m (56,800 ft)
*Rate of climb:* 230 m/s (45,275 ft/min)
*Wing loading:*
*With 56% fuel:* 401 kg/m² (82.3 lb/ft²)
*With full internal fuel:* 468.3 kg/m² ()

*Thrust/weight:*
*With full fuel:* 0.86
*With 56% fuel:* 1

*Maximum g-load:* +9 g
*Armament*


*Guns:* 1 × 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-301 autocannon with 150 rounds
*Hardpoints:* 12 hardpoints with a capacity of up to 8,000 kg (18,000 lb) and provisions to carry combinations of:
*Rockets:*
S-8KOM/BM/OM
S-13T/OF
S-25OFM-PU

*Missiles:*
Air-to-air missiles:
R-27R/ER/T/ET/P
R-73E
RVV-AE

Air-to-surface missiles:
Kh-29T/L
Kh-59M/ME

Anti-ship missiles:
Kh-31A

Anti-radiation missiles:
Kh-31P


*Bombs:*
KAB-500KR general-purpose bomb
KAB-500OD bomb
KAB-1500KR GP bomb
KAB-1500L laser-guided bomb
FAB-500T GP bomb
BETAB-500SHP bomb
ODAB-500PM bomb
OFAB-250-270 bomb
OFAB-100-120 bomb
P-50T bomb
RBK-500 cluster bombs
SPBE-D bomb


*Avionics*


Bars planar array radar
OEPS-27 electro-optical targeting system

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=812717148905197

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## AMG_12

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Times to One Step Ahead-BAF
> Myanmar Buying Su30 then why not BAF go for Su35. Basically it is costly but 1sqd. is enough for kickoff.
> 
> *Specifications (Su-35S)*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *General characteristics*
> 
> 
> *Crew:* 1
> *Length:* 21.9 m (72 ft 11 in)
> *Wingspan:* (with wingtip pods) 15.3 m (50 ft 2 in)
> *Height:* 5.9 m (19 ft 5 in)
> *Wing area:* 62 m² (667 ft²)
> *Empty weight:* 17,200 kg[_citation needed_] (37,920 lb)
> *Loaded weight:* 25,300 kg (56,660 lb) at 50% internal fuel
> *Max. takeoff weight:* 34,500 kg (76,060 lb)
> *Fuel capacity:* 11,500 kg (25,400 lb) internally
> *Powerplant:* 2 × Saturn AL-41F1S afterburning turbofans
> *Dry thrust:* 86.3 kN (19,400 lbf) each
> *Thrust with afterburner:* 142 kN (31,900 lbf) each
> 
> *Performance*
> 
> 
> *Maximum speed:*
> *At altitude:* Mach 2.25 (2,400 km/h; 1,490 mph)
> *At sea level:* Mach 1.13 (1,400 km/h; 870 mph)
> 
> *Range:*
> *At altitude:* 3,600 km (2,240 mi; 1,940 nmi)
> *At sea level:* 1,580 km (980 mi; 850 nmi)
> 
> *Ferry range:* 4,500 km (2,800 mi; 2,430 nmi) with 2 external fuel tanks
> *Service ceiling:* 18,000 m (59,100 ft)
> *Rate of climb:* >280 m/s (>55,000 ft/min)
> *Wing loading:*
> *With 50% fuel:* 408 kg/m² (84.9 lb/ft²)
> *With full internal fuel:* 500.8 kg/m² ()
> 
> *Thrust/weight:* 1.13 at 50% fuel (0.92 with full internal fuel)
> *Maximum g-load:* +9 g
> *Armament*
> 
> 
> *Guns:* 1 × internal 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-301 autocannon with 150 rounds
> *Hardpoints:* 12 hardpoints, consisting of 2 wingtip rails, and 10 wing and fuselage stations with a capacity of 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of ordnance and provisions to carry combinations of:
> *Rockets:* S-25
> *Missiles:*
> Air-to-air missiles:
> 8 × R-27RE/TE
> R-40
> R-60
> 6 × R-73E
> 12 × R-77M/P/T
> 6 × R-74
> 
> Air-to-surface missiles:
> Kh-25ML
> 6 × Kh-29L/TE
> 3 × 3M-14AE
> 
> Anti-ship missiles:
> 3 × 3M-54AE1
> 6 × Kh-31A/AD
> Kh-35U
> 5 × Kh-59MK
> 1 × Yakhont
> 
> Anti-radiation missiles:
> Kh-25MP
> 6 × Kh-31P/PD
> 5 × Kh-58UShE
> 
> 
> *Bombs:*
> 8 × KAB-500KR TV-guided bombs
> 8 × KAB-500L laser-guided bombs
> 8 × KAB-500OD guided bombs
> 8 × KAB-500S-E satellite-guided bombs
> 3 × KAB-1500KR TV-guided bombs
> 3 × KAB-1500L laser-guided bombs
> GBU-500 laser-guided bomb
> GBU-500T TV-guided bomb
> GBU-1000 laser-guided bomb
> GBU-1000T TV-guided bomb
> 
> 
> *Avionics*
> 
> 
> Irbis-E passive electronically scanned array radar
> OLS-35 infra-red search and track system
> L175M Khibiny-M electronic countermeasures system.
> *Specifications (SU 30 SME)
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *General characteristics*
> 
> 
> *Crew:* 2
> *Length:* 21.935 m (73 ft)
> *Wingspan:* 14.7 m (48 ft 3 in)
> *Height:* 6.36 m (20 ft 10 in)
> *Wing area:* 62 m² (667 ft²)
> *Empty weight:* 17,700 kg (39,021 lb)
> *Loaded weight:* 24,900 kg (54,900 lb) with 56% fuel
> *Max. takeoff weight:* 34,500 kg (76,060 lb)
> *Fuel capacity:* 9,400 kg (20,724 lb) internally[101]
> *Powerplant:* 2 × Saturn AL-31FL turbofans
> *Dry thrust:* 74.5 kN (16,750 lbf) each
> *Thrust with afterburner:* 122.58 kN (27,560 lbf) each
> 
> *Performance*
> 
> 
> *Maximum speed:* Mach 2.0 (2,120 km/h; 1,320 mph) at altitude
> *Range:* 3,000 km (1,860 mi; 1,620 nmi) at altitude
> *Service ceiling:* 17,300 m (56,800 ft)
> *Rate of climb:* 230 m/s (45,275 ft/min)
> *Wing loading:*
> *With 56% fuel:* 401 kg/m² (82.3 lb/ft²)
> *With full internal fuel:* 468.3 kg/m² ()
> 
> *Thrust/weight:*
> *With full fuel:* 0.86
> *With 56% fuel:* 1
> 
> *Maximum g-load:* +9 g
> *Armament*
> 
> 
> *Guns:* 1 × 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-301 autocannon with 150 rounds
> *Hardpoints:* 12 hardpoints with a capacity of up to 8,000 kg (18,000 lb) and provisions to carry combinations of:
> *Rockets:*
> S-8KOM/BM/OM
> S-13T/OF
> S-25OFM-PU
> 
> *Missiles:*
> Air-to-air missiles:
> R-27R/ER/T/ET/P
> R-73E
> RVV-AE
> 
> Air-to-surface missiles:
> Kh-29T/L
> Kh-59M/ME
> 
> Anti-ship missiles:
> Kh-31A
> 
> Anti-radiation missiles:
> Kh-31P
> 
> 
> *Bombs:*
> KAB-500KR general-purpose bomb
> KAB-500OD bomb
> KAB-1500KR GP bomb
> KAB-1500L laser-guided bomb
> FAB-500T GP bomb
> BETAB-500SHP bomb
> ODAB-500PM bomb
> OFAB-250-270 bomb
> OFAB-100-120 bomb
> P-50T bomb
> RBK-500 cluster bombs
> SPBE-D bomb
> 
> 
> *Avionics*
> 
> 
> Bars planar array radar
> OEPS-27 electro-optical targeting system


According to BDmilitary, Bangladesh is the world's biggest importer of weapons (pun intended), yet we don't see a bird flying in Bangladesh? Can anyone shed some light on this? Myanmar purchased 6 Su30 which are potent platforms and will eat Bangladeshi air force for breakfast.


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## Anubis

Game.Invade said:


> According to BDmilitary, Bangladesh is the world's biggest importer of weapons (pun intended), yet we don't see a bird flying in Bangladesh? Can anyone shed some light on this? Myanmar purchased 6 Su30 which are potent platforms and will eat Bangladeshi air force for breakfast.


Bangladesh takes its time when purchasing military hardware...if there were any immediate threat of invasion then its military might have taken a faster route......Myanmar isn't going to war with Bangladesh tomorrow...Unlike Pakistan our neighborhood isn't that hot.

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## The Ronin

Game.Invade said:


> According to BDmilitary, Bangladesh is the world's biggest importer of weapons (pun intended), yet we don't see a bird flying in Bangladesh? Can anyone shed some light on this? Myanmar purchased 6 Su30 which are potent platforms and will eat Bangladeshi air force for breakfast.



If you could read all those previous post and thread you would've already gotten your answer. Tender for 8+4 heavy MRCA was issued last year, 16 MRCA will be procured this year (not 8+4). Plus those 6 Su-30 hasn't even arrived yet. 

http://www.janes.com/article/68662/bangladesh-issues-tender-for-eight-multirole-combat-aircraft
https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/bangladesh-air-force-buy-fc-20-china/

So instead of worrying about others i think you should worry about yourself. 

https://timesofislamabad.com/01-Feb...pare-parts-for-military-equipment-to-pakistan

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## AMG_12

The Ronin said:


> If you could read all those previous post and thread you would've already gotten your answer. Tender for 8+4 heavy MRCA was issued last year, 16 MRCA will be procured this year (not 8+4). Plus those 6 Su-30 hasn't even arrived yet.
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/68662/bangladesh-issues-tender-for-eight-multirole-combat-aircraft
> https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/bangladesh-air-force-buy-fc-20-china/
> 
> So instead of worrying about others i think you should worry about yourself.
> 
> https://timesofislamabad.com/01-Feb...pare-parts-for-military-equipment-to-pakistan


I've been reading through almost all the previous pages and most of it is feel good articles sourced back to BDmilitary.com.. About the arrival of 6 Su30, they've placed an order while BD is yet to select and negotiate. Turkish Military has been supplying major spare parts for the F-16. Our military is as good as it has ever been with a good industrial base, procurement policy and vision. For further information, consult the relevant PDF gentlemen in the relevant sections and they may guide you of where our military stands as of today.


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## Avicenna

Game.Invade said:


> According to BDmilitary, Bangladesh is the world's biggest importer of weapons (pun intended), yet we don't see a bird flying in Bangladesh? Can anyone shed some light on this? Myanmar purchased 6 Su30 which are potent platforms and will eat Bangladeshi air force for breakfast.



Firstly, look up the definition of what a pun is. 

Secondly, don't worry about what Bangaldesh does or doesnt do.

Troll posts not welcome in the BD subforum.

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## The Ronin



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## Bilal9

As a forward airbase or radar station for chicken's neck situation - this could have some use. Otherwise as a STOL passenger airport, I don't see a lot of takers, either from Bangladesh, or from surrounding countries. Connectivity to Dhaka from Thimphu and Kathmandu is well established, even with small jet commuter aircraft.

Current state,

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## The Ronin



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## Bengal Tiger 71

BAF looking for 6th generation fighter craft.
So now.............................

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## araberuni7

Since I am a new member. I could not embed a link. But the reference is Dhakatribune news Openion Page. 

*Contested skies: BAF’s uncertain future *
In recent times, regional harmony is distressed, and disruption rules. At times, defense capability dominates; at other times, offensive capability dominates. This is noticeably the case in today’s arcane world of air warfare.

While much investment has gone into the improvement of infrastructure, education, health care, and so forth, the defense capability and air superiority stay behind — as more powerful regional air force emerges as the technologically advanced air force, the operational environment is not standing still. The dynamics of air warfare change more quickly than the acquisition of new fighter jets in an air force.

*The contested skies *

The skies of South Asia and South-East Asia are increasingly contested by superior fighter jets of these regions supplied by China, Russia, the US, and the EU.

Emerging threats are making airborne tanker, airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft, and even civilian aircraft more vulnerable — and, the emergence of advanced anti-stealth surface-to-air missiles, stealth-fighter jet technology, long-range cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and even hobbyist drones are proliferating everywhere in the world.

*The game changer *

The recent acquisition of plus fourth generation JF-17 block II and Su-30SME (Standardized, Modernized, Export) fighter jets by neighbouring Myanmar poses a severe threat to Bangladesh’s national security.

The government of Bangladesh needs significant investment in air superiority capabilities, which would be a good starting point for Bangladesh Air Force to discuss the strategic impacts of known, and emerging changes in the air superiority operational environment in this region.

The procurement of Su-30 is the beginning of new era in Myanmar Air Force. The Chinese-made J-31 and the Russian Su-57 will dominate the Asian market in the near future — they were even sold to Myanmar Air Force.

*The vulnerable BAF*

The vulnerabilities in BAF will cost the nation dearly, unless we train pilots and introduce fifth-generation fighter jets soon.

It is evident that the BAF lacks air-superiority and ground attack capability. The alarming concern of Bangladesh is that the Bangladesh military, especially BAF, does not have an area denial strategy at all.

*Commitment to national security *

Bangladesh Air Force needs to create a plan that enables them to continually acquire new fighter jets in small batches, so that in the next 20-30 years, BAF can maintain its air capabilities.

BAF was so inactive in the past 20 years that Bangladesh government is financially stretched out at the moment to procure a large number of fighter jets.

It is beyond belief that BAF cannot carefully craft a tender and create a challenging environment for vendors and suppliers so that Bangladesh can take advantage of the competition.

Bangladesh has to commit herself to national security — otherwise, Bangladesh might face serious conflict in the future as enemies can take full advantages of her weak military capacity.

*Area denial approach*

The development of an integrated air defense system covering vast areas are expensive, but at times like this, most countries have no choice but to endure the cost and establish an area denial strategy to deny airspace to the adversary.

The area denial approach implies a reduced dependency on the air force, perhaps lessening Bangladesh’s burdens — while the rebuilding of strike capability slowly implies continuing to share the burden with the army and navy in major “must-win” wars past 2030.

*Engaging in Russian roulette*

BAF must learn the lesson dealing with an untrustworthy partner like the Russian Rosoboronexport, which desperately tried to dump MiG-35 fighter jet on Bangladesh through the manipulation of the cost of fighter jets in each segment of RFP to the recent MRCA tender.

The business strategy of the Rosoboronexport is simple, to place the prospective buyer in a contested situation where Rosoboronexport can fully exploit the buyer to rip them off financially and technologically.

*Dragging the feet too long*

BAF is dragging its feet for too long to make up their mind — while the skies become heavily contested. BAF needs to be restructured, and needs to carefully plan and develop practical strategic options to address this situation. No one else is going to rescue Bangladesh, not the People’s Republic of China, nor the OIC.

“Friendship to all and malice to none” foreign policy does not apply to those who violate Bangladesh’s sovereignty. Bangladesh has placed itself in this situation, and they have to save themselves.

The truth of the matter is that the EU and the US have some consistency in their business strategies, not like the Russian roulette-style business strategy.

The Obama administration would not have withdrawn Bangladesh’s GSP status if the Bangladeshi government openly cooperated with the international community and accepted support from the US and the EU, when Rana Plaza collapsed.

The Western countries are the most significant export destination of Bangladeshi goods and services. Bangladesh’s export destination will not change — regardless of who is ruling those countries and the policies being made in those countries do not directly affect the national security of Bangladesh.

Although the Chinese manufacturers are the most significant defense supplier of Bangladesh military, the Italian, Spanish, American, British, and German suppliers remain pivotal to the Bangladeshi military’s operational capabilities.

Peace is by choice. However, the battle is inflicted on Bangladesh by the neighbouring Myanmar.

Bangladesh is heading towards a conflict with Myanmar, whether Bangladeshis admit it or not. Bangladeshi land, air, and sea are already contested by the neighbouring countries.

It would be foolish not to admit the current situation and counter the future threats. If Bangladesh does not adapt quickly and establish deterrence capabilities, then, soon, there will be millions of Rakhine, Karen, Kachin, and Shan ethnic minorities in Bangladesh.

*Making a clear choice *

The current options of Bangladesh are to modify defense procurement plans. That may worry some, but strategic ends cannot be determined independently of the capability means. The two are interdependent.

It makes sense to discuss alternative ways to exit from the current situation that might reasonably bring strategic ends to the traditional security posture. The alignment of the defense strategy is crucial right now to avoid conflict in the near future.

Even if the cost of acquisition of fighter jets is billions of dollars right now, it will maintain GDP growth of Bangladesh above 7%, keeping the current trajectory — but any conflict with Myanmar will lead to a nosedive of GDP growth and a economic disaster for future generations.

Any conflict with Myanmar will ruin the vision of Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, which is for us to become a middle income economy by 2021. The point being made here is that spending a few billion dollars to maintain peace and deterrence is worthwhile, and it will avoid conflicts.

Bangladesh has three options. It is up to Bangladesh to choose one and carefully implement that option.

*Join the Chinese domain *

This “back to the future” approach implies abandoning the current policy as China rises and its sphere of influence expands to Southeast Asia and across the globe. Strategically, this alters Bangladesh from the long-term foreign policy “friendship with all and malice to none.”

While Bangladesh could contribute by providing a safe base area to the Chinese navy in any conflict, in which the skies over the Bay of Bengal were seriously contested, this level of involvement would give Bangladesh much influence on overall allied strategy and over-supplies of Chinese military hardware to Myanmar.

*Significant changes to goal 2030 *

Currently, Bangladesh Air Force is facing doom.

What we can do is enhance current operational plans and future equipment programs, which means lowering other national projects to fund the defense of Bangladesh. Bangladesh goes to “air defense heavy” and acquires fewer fighter squadrons.

This option changes Bangladesh’s current capability development plans to stress air defense. A start would include acquiring significant numbers of advanced surface-to-air missiles like HQ-16A or CAMM-ER and FD-2000 or Aster 30, and sensors for integrated air and missile defense, changing fourth-generation plus fighter jet upgrade plans, and focusing on making airbases and national infrastructure more resilient.

Strategically, the “air defense heavy” approach would allow Bangladesh to remain deeply engaged in Southeast Asia and make a meaningful, perhaps decisive contribution in times of serious conflict.

Because this approach is less reliant on external support, it would allow Bangladesh to mount independent operations in an area critical to Bangladesh’s sovereignty.

*Rebuilding strike capability *

This option entails adjusting the current defense posture to focus on reconfiguring Bangladesh’s strike capability combining a fourth and a fifth-generation fighter jet to be efficient in contested airspace beyond 2030.

Bangladesh also lowers the cost of integrated air and missile defense. This applies to all of the elements that comprise the strike capabilities, not just the fourth and fifth generation fighter jets.

If Bangladesh wants to maintain a good strike capability in the future, Bangladesh needs to take positive steps to do so.

Air superiority may seem expensive, but it can have a significant impact on the range of strategies that can realistically be considered.

To maintain peace and GDP growth of Bangladesh, it is time for a big air-superiority rethink.

_Raihan Al-Beruni is a contractor and analyst for a global defense and security supplier based in Australia._

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## Bilal9

Fine article, except,



araberuni7 said:


> The recent acquisition of plus fourth generation JF-17 block II and Su-30SME (Standardized, Modernized, Export) fighter jets by neighbouring Myanmar poses a severe threat to Bangladesh’s national security.



That is some serious balderdash.....

Just buying whatever doesn't pose a threat to any rival airforce.....

1. You have to train ace pilots to 'fly' the damn things to pose a 'severe threat' to anything except seagulls.

2. Plus keep the platforms in 'operable readiness' shape.

I have lingering doubts that Myanma Air-Farce can do either effectively or in large numbers.....

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> Fine article, except,
> 
> 
> 
> That is some serious balderdash.....
> 
> Just buying whatever doesn't pose a threat to any rival airforce.....
> 
> 1. You have to train ace pilots to 'fly' the damn things to pose a 'severe threat' to anything except seagulls.
> 
> 2. Plus keep the platforms in 'operable readiness' shape.
> 
> I have lingering doubts that Myanma Air-Farce can do either.....


I differ.. They had been flying Mig-29 for a while.
I was impressed by the speed they completed the barbed wire fencing and road in our border while we are debating on it for the last 2 years in the parliament without any budget, tender or work order. That only shows the inefficiency we have in our system. Don't live in the fools paradise that MM army are incompetent. I am sure they know how to shoot.

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## monitor

বঙ্গবন্ধু এরোনটিকাল সেন্টার (BAC) তে ওভারহোলিং করার সময়ে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর FT-7MB যুদ্ধবিমান।

এখানে বিমানবাহিনীর প্রায় সব যুদ্ধবিমান, হেলিকপ্টার ও প্রশিক্ষন বিমানের ওভারহোলিং ও মেইনটেইনেন্স করা হয়।

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

TopCat said:


> I differ.. They had been flying Mig-29 for a while.
> I was impressed by the speed they completed the barbed wire fencing and road in our border while we are debating on it for the last 2 years in the parliament without any budget, tender or work order. That only shows the inefficiency we have in our system. Don't live in the fools paradise that MM army are incompetent. I am sure they know how to shoot.



Its not that I agree with you in all details.... but I do agree that a level of threat has been posed....

the fact is, when my neighbours create border disputes with me and then buy expensive military hardware, its not something that I take easily.... to be honest, its time to put some serious effort behind defence, otherwise we would be caught again with our pants down....

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## SipahSalar

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=812717148905197


Now hold on a second. Is that really squadron called Thunder Cats?


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## SipahSalar

The Ronin said:


> Yes squadron name. Why?


Just interesting because there used to be cartoons called Thunder Cats back in the 90's. Used to be very popular with the kids 






Someone in BAF must have been a big fan of the show! *Even the logo on the Mig-21 is the EXACT SAME from thundercats. *You can see the logo on the thudercats belts.

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## ghost250

https://quwa.org/2018/02/08/tai-sees-growth-of-interest-in-t129-anka-uav/

Bangladesh has emerged as a market of interest. Dhaka is reportedly interested in the T129 and Anka UAV – a request-for-proposals has already been released for medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAVs...


Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is looking to build upon the interest its products, most notably the T129 attack helicopter and Anka unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), at the 2018 Singapore Air Show.

TAI Vice President for Corporate Marketing and Communications, Tamer Ozmen, told journalists that the company is nearing a signature on a prospective sale of 30 T129s to Pakistan. He also stated that TAI is in “advanced discussions” for selling the T129 to Bangladesh, Philippines and Thailand.

Regarding Pakistan, Ozmen confirmed that the T129 was selected due to its performance in hot-and-high conditions. In August 2017, another TAI official said that the T129 possessed competitive life-cycle costs.

TAI is now embarking on expanding its business activities to other markets, especially in Southeast Asia.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=856337021209876

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## mb444

araberuni7 said:


> Since I am a new member. I could not embed a link. But the reference is Dhakatribune news Openion Page.
> 
> *Contested skies: BAF’s uncertain future *
> In recent times, regional harmony is distressed, and disruption rules. At times, defense capability dominates; at other times, offensive capability dominates. This is noticeably the case in today’s arcane world of air warfare.
> 
> While much investment has gone into the improvement of infrastructure, education, health care, and so forth, the defense capability and air superiority stay behind — as more powerful regional air force emerges as the technologically advanced air force, the operational environment is not standing still. The dynamics of air warfare change more quickly than the acquisition of new fighter jets in an air force.
> 
> *The contested skies *
> 
> The skies of South Asia and South-East Asia are increasingly contested by superior fighter jets of these regions supplied by China, Russia, the US, and the EU.
> 
> Emerging threats are making airborne tanker, airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft, and even civilian aircraft more vulnerable — and, the emergence of advanced anti-stealth surface-to-air missiles, stealth-fighter jet technology, long-range cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and even hobbyist drones are proliferating everywhere in the world.
> 
> *The game changer *
> 
> The recent acquisition of plus fourth generation JF-17 block II and Su-30SME (Standardized, Modernized, Export) fighter jets by neighbouring Myanmar poses a severe threat to Bangladesh’s national security.
> 
> The government of Bangladesh needs significant investment in air superiority capabilities, which would be a good starting point for Bangladesh Air Force to discuss the strategic impacts of known, and emerging changes in the air superiority operational environment in this region.
> 
> The procurement of Su-30 is the beginning of new era in Myanmar Air Force. The Chinese-made J-31 and the Russian Su-57 will dominate the Asian market in the near future — they were even sold to Myanmar Air Force.
> 
> *The vulnerable BAF*
> 
> The vulnerabilities in BAF will cost the nation dearly, unless we train pilots and introduce fifth-generation fighter jets soon.
> 
> It is evident that the BAF lacks air-superiority and ground attack capability. The alarming concern of Bangladesh is that the Bangladesh military, especially BAF, does not have an area denial strategy at all.
> 
> *Commitment to national security *
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force needs to create a plan that enables them to continually acquire new fighter jets in small batches, so that in the next 20-30 years, BAF can maintain its air capabilities.
> 
> BAF was so inactive in the past 20 years that Bangladesh government is financially stretched out at the moment to procure a large number of fighter jets.
> 
> It is beyond belief that BAF cannot carefully craft a tender and create a challenging environment for vendors and suppliers so that Bangladesh can take advantage of the competition.
> 
> Bangladesh has to commit herself to national security — otherwise, Bangladesh might face serious conflict in the future as enemies can take full advantages of her weak military capacity.
> 
> *Area denial approach*
> 
> The development of an integrated air defense system covering vast areas are expensive, but at times like this, most countries have no choice but to endure the cost and establish an area denial strategy to deny airspace to the adversary.
> 
> The area denial approach implies a reduced dependency on the air force, perhaps lessening Bangladesh’s burdens — while the rebuilding of strike capability slowly implies continuing to share the burden with the army and navy in major “must-win” wars past 2030.
> 
> *Engaging in Russian roulette*
> 
> BAF must learn the lesson dealing with an untrustworthy partner like the Russian Rosoboronexport, which desperately tried to dump MiG-35 fighter jet on Bangladesh through the manipulation of the cost of fighter jets in each segment of RFP to the recent MRCA tender.
> 
> The business strategy of the Rosoboronexport is simple, to place the prospective buyer in a contested situation where Rosoboronexport can fully exploit the buyer to rip them off financially and technologically.
> 
> *Dragging the feet too long*
> 
> BAF is dragging its feet for too long to make up their mind — while the skies become heavily contested. BAF needs to be restructured, and needs to carefully plan and develop practical strategic options to address this situation. No one else is going to rescue Bangladesh, not the People’s Republic of China, nor the OIC.
> 
> “Friendship to all and malice to none” foreign policy does not apply to those who violate Bangladesh’s sovereignty. Bangladesh has placed itself in this situation, and they have to save themselves.
> 
> The truth of the matter is that the EU and the US have some consistency in their business strategies, not like the Russian roulette-style business strategy.
> 
> The Obama administration would not have withdrawn Bangladesh’s GSP status if the Bangladeshi government openly cooperated with the international community and accepted support from the US and the EU, when Rana Plaza collapsed.
> 
> The Western countries are the most significant export destination of Bangladeshi goods and services. Bangladesh’s export destination will not change — regardless of who is ruling those countries and the policies being made in those countries do not directly affect the national security of Bangladesh.
> 
> Although the Chinese manufacturers are the most significant defense supplier of Bangladesh military, the Italian, Spanish, American, British, and German suppliers remain pivotal to the Bangladeshi military’s operational capabilities.
> 
> Peace is by choice. However, the battle is inflicted on Bangladesh by the neighbouring Myanmar.
> 
> Bangladesh is heading towards a conflict with Myanmar, whether Bangladeshis admit it or not. Bangladeshi land, air, and sea are already contested by the neighbouring countries.
> 
> It would be foolish not to admit the current situation and counter the future threats. If Bangladesh does not adapt quickly and establish deterrence capabilities, then, soon, there will be millions of Rakhine, Karen, Kachin, and Shan ethnic minorities in Bangladesh.
> 
> *Making a clear choice *
> 
> The current options of Bangladesh are to modify defense procurement plans. That may worry some, but strategic ends cannot be determined independently of the capability means. The two are interdependent.
> 
> It makes sense to discuss alternative ways to exit from the current situation that might reasonably bring strategic ends to the traditional security posture. The alignment of the defense strategy is crucial right now to avoid conflict in the near future.
> 
> Even if the cost of acquisition of fighter jets is billions of dollars right now, it will maintain GDP growth of Bangladesh above 7%, keeping the current trajectory — but any conflict with Myanmar will lead to a nosedive of GDP growth and a economic disaster for future generations.
> 
> Any conflict with Myanmar will ruin the vision of Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, which is for us to become a middle income economy by 2021. The point being made here is that spending a few billion dollars to maintain peace and deterrence is worthwhile, and it will avoid conflicts.
> 
> Bangladesh has three options. It is up to Bangladesh to choose one and carefully implement that option.
> 
> *Join the Chinese domain *
> 
> This “back to the future” approach implies abandoning the current policy as China rises and its sphere of influence expands to Southeast Asia and across the globe. Strategically, this alters Bangladesh from the long-term foreign policy “friendship with all and malice to none.”
> 
> While Bangladesh could contribute by providing a safe base area to the Chinese navy in any conflict, in which the skies over the Bay of Bengal were seriously contested, this level of involvement would give Bangladesh much influence on overall allied strategy and over-supplies of Chinese military hardware to Myanmar.
> 
> *Significant changes to goal 2030 *
> 
> Currently, Bangladesh Air Force is facing doom.
> 
> What we can do is enhance current operational plans and future equipment programs, which means lowering other national projects to fund the defense of Bangladesh. Bangladesh goes to “air defense heavy” and acquires fewer fighter squadrons.
> 
> This option changes Bangladesh’s current capability development plans to stress air defense. A start would include acquiring significant numbers of advanced surface-to-air missiles like HQ-16A or CAMM-ER and FD-2000 or Aster 30, and sensors for integrated air and missile defense, changing fourth-generation plus fighter jet upgrade plans, and focusing on making airbases and national infrastructure more resilient.
> 
> Strategically, the “air defense heavy” approach would allow Bangladesh to remain deeply engaged in Southeast Asia and make a meaningful, perhaps decisive contribution in times of serious conflict.
> 
> Because this approach is less reliant on external support, it would allow Bangladesh to mount independent operations in an area critical to Bangladesh’s sovereignty.
> 
> *Rebuilding strike capability *
> 
> This option entails adjusting the current defense posture to focus on reconfiguring Bangladesh’s strike capability combining a fourth and a fifth-generation fighter jet to be efficient in contested airspace beyond 2030.
> 
> Bangladesh also lowers the cost of integrated air and missile defense. This applies to all of the elements that comprise the strike capabilities, not just the fourth and fifth generation fighter jets.
> 
> If Bangladesh wants to maintain a good strike capability in the future, Bangladesh needs to take positive steps to do so.
> 
> Air superiority may seem expensive, but it can have a significant impact on the range of strategies that can realistically be considered.
> 
> To maintain peace and GDP growth of Bangladesh, it is time for a big air-superiority rethink.
> 
> _Raihan Al-Beruni is a contractor and analyst for a global defense and security supplier based in Australia._




Singularly the most lucid analysis I have ever read regarding BD geostrategic positioning.


It is time to chose a side and me personally would advocate closer interaction and coordination with the Chinese. I would not go the whole hog and burn our bridges with the west however. BD needs to play the game ..... our current positioning no longer serves our future interests in the even evolving global geopolitical scenario.

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## araberuni7

I am not sure whether you guys have observed this serious typo of BAF. Look at this 





Lucky, the Chinese and the Turkish read English portion of the tender. I am 100% sure BAF is not buyig UAV from Russia!

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## BDforever



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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> I am not sure whether you guys have observed this serious typo of BAF. Look at this
> View attachment 453616
> 
> 
> Lucky, the Chinese and the Turkish read English portion of the tender. I am 100% sure BAF is not buyig UAV from Russia!


And that idiot amar khan from bdmilitary spreading the rumor that bd already bought wing long from China

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## BDforever

TopCat said:


> And that idiot amar khan from bdmilitary spreading the rumor that bd already bought wing long from China


have your source confirmed it that BD has not bought wing long ?

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## araberuni7

TopCat said:


> And that idiot amar khan from bdmilitary spreading the rumor that bd already bought wing long from China



Well, his domain is registered under the name of ashiqur rahman. He used to live in Sydney sometimes ago, but no longer he lives here.

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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> have your source confirmed it that BD has not bought wing long ?


If you knew the legal implication of every word written in a tender document you wont be asking the question. Even the PM cant buy anything outside Russia under this tender.


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## BDforever

TopCat said:


> If you knew the legal implication of every word written in a tender document you wont be asking the question. Even the PM cant buy anything outside Russia under this tender.


Yea right, now go to sue, whinny boy.


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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> Yea right, now go to sue, whinny boy.


I dont have to sue a non existent wing long.. sweet heart.


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## 帅的一匹

The Ronin said:


> Seriously, weren't you there when everyone was saying this was a typing mistake?? Russia only have Orion UAV which isn't armed and i doubt it's even operational yet.
> 
> https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1926.pdf&h=ATPvdnG5J8J80NGLTQd0CaFqXK3aj5X88CxG8NSD-XY2zQkmoYRr0EPalPzmgjCEqasbzyA-HPDRXd_sjWqHSu_2byacz75q8LAdeAUGwPoGw6_JkZ-SF4l2i7J_gheCWKnxQRoSmEX4Ig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? What??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...armed_drone_data_pictures_video_11906174.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://quwa.org/2018/01/25/avic-to-launch-new-wing-loong-uav-variant-in-2018/


Wing loong ID is a variant designed for BD.

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Seriously, weren't you there when everyone was saying this was a typing mistake?? Russia only have Orion UAV which isn't armed and i doubt it's even operational yet.
> 
> https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/1926.pdf&h=ATPvdnG5J8J80NGLTQd0CaFqXK3aj5X88CxG8NSD-XY2zQkmoYRr0EPalPzmgjCEqasbzyA-HPDRXd_sjWqHSu_2byacz75q8LAdeAUGwPoGw6_JkZ-SF4l2i7J_gheCWKnxQRoSmEX4Ig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? What??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...armed_drone_data_pictures_video_11906174.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://quwa.org/2018/01/25/avic-to-launch-new-wing-loong-uav-variant-in-2018/



If that was a typo, should't BAF remove that RFP and reupload the corrected one?


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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Does it matter?? Cause those suppliers can't read this language. *It's published just to notify us *



No it's published to notify the suppliers, comrade.


----------



## Dot

Harsh Ground Reality!




credit - Sadiq Mahmud

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## Avicenna

Dot said:


> Harsh Ground Reality!
> View attachment 454094
> 
> credit - Sadiq Mahmud


LOL!!


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## 帅的一匹

Dot said:


> Harsh Ground Reality!
> View attachment 454094
> 
> credit - Sadiq Mahmud


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## Nahid

Dot said:


> Harsh Ground Reality!
> View attachment 454094
> 
> credit - Sadiq Mahmud


i am in favore of j-10 c.

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## bluesky

*Yes, J-10C would be a better option than Mig-35. The latter was rejected by the IAF.

Engines and radar to blame for MiG-35 failure in MMRCA contest*


04 AUGUST, 2011 

SOURCE: FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL 
BY: VLADIMIR KARNOZOV 
LONDON
Radar and engine performance shortcomings were to blame for the MiG-35 failing to make the shortlist in India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest.

The revelations are contained in feedback from India to Russia's arms export agency, Rosoboronexport.

The MiG-35's radar, the Zhuk-MAE active electronically scanned array (AESA), from Russia's Phazotron, failed to achieve the required acquisition and tracking ranges. And its Klimov RD-33MK engines also fell short of the Indian performance criteria.

Speaking to the media on 3 August, Vladimir Barkovsky, chief of MiG's engineering centre, said: "The Klimov and Chernyshev [engine companies] briefed [India] at length about their capabilities and intentions to improve their offering, but unfortunately their arguments were not taken into account."

Despite this, the same RD-33MK met Indian navy requirements and powers the newly-built MiG-29K/KUB fighters being delivered to the service.

Barkovsky also defended the Zhuk-MAE AESA radar, pointing out that the prototype nature of the model fitted to the MiG-35 meant that it did not meet the tender specifications, particularly regarding range.

He said: "We told the tender committee that this particular unit is experimental, and that in future we will make a larger radar antenna [capable of being used at a longer range]."

Barkovsky pointed out that the Eurofighter Typhoon is yet to be fitted with a working AESA radar.

"While the Russians demonstrated their radar fitted to the real fighter and working, [Eurofighter] demonstrated their radar on a helicopter," he said.

"The positive outcome of the Indian tender is that we made a huge effort on the radar development and demonstrated what nobody expected of us, and thus surprised many, including some in our home country," Barkovsky added.

The company will continue the MiG-35 project, he said, and look for other export customers.

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## bdslph

I do love to have the Gripen i know its a wet dream but its for the best


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## Avicenna

Any word on the Mig-35 purchase?


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## araberuni7

bluesky said:


> *Yes, J-10C would be a better option than Mig-35. The latter was rejected by the IAF.
> 
> Engines and radar to blame for MiG-35 failure in MMRCA contest*
> 
> 
> 04 AUGUST, 2011
> 
> SOURCE: FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL
> BY: VLADIMIR KARNOZOV
> LONDON
> Radar and engine performance shortcomings were to blame for the MiG-35 failing to make the shortlist in India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest.
> 
> The revelations are contained in feedback from India to Russia's arms export agency, Rosoboronexport.
> 
> The MiG-35's radar, the Zhuk-MAE active electronically scanned array (AESA), from Russia's Phazotron, failed to achieve the required acquisition and tracking ranges. And its Klimov RD-33MK engines also fell short of the Indian performance criteria.
> 
> Speaking to the media on 3 August, Vladimir Barkovsky, chief of MiG's engineering centre, said: "The Klimov and Chernyshev [engine companies] briefed [India] at length about their capabilities and intentions to improve their offering, but unfortunately their arguments were not taken into account."
> 
> Despite this, the same RD-33MK met Indian navy requirements and powers the newly-built MiG-29K/KUB fighters being delivered to the service.
> 
> Barkovsky also defended the Zhuk-MAE AESA radar, pointing out that the prototype nature of the model fitted to the MiG-35 meant that it did not meet the tender specifications, particularly regarding range.
> 
> He said: "We told the tender committee that this particular unit is experimental, and that in future we will make a larger radar antenna [capable of being used at a longer range]."
> 
> Barkovsky pointed out that the Eurofighter Typhoon is yet to be fitted with a working AESA radar.
> 
> "While the Russians demonstrated their radar fitted to the real fighter and working, [Eurofighter] demonstrated their radar on a helicopter," he said.
> 
> "The positive outcome of the Indian tender is that we made a huge effort on the radar development and demonstrated what nobody expected of us, and thus surprised many, including some in our home country," Barkovsky added.
> 
> The company will continue the MiG-35 project, he said, and look for other export customers.



IAF to _ROSOBORONEXPORT_


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## The Ronin

Brazil’s Taurus has won a contract to supply various types of small arms to the Bangladesh Air Force.

The contract was awarded through two international tenders advertised on 22 and 23 October 2017 by the Directorate General Defence Purchase (DGDP).

https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/brazil-gets-bangladesh-air-force-small-arms-contract/

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## The Ronin

The Bangladesh Air Force and Rosoboronexport arms supply agency of Russia will sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for Heavy Multi-Role Combat Aircraft very shortly. The combat aircraft are capable of performing air-to-air, air-to-surface, maritime strike and reconnaissance roles. 

https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-...-sign-mou-on-multi-role-combat-aircraft-soon/

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> The Bangladesh Air Force and Rosoboronexport arms supply agency of Russia will sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for Heavy Multi-Role Combat Aircraft very shortly. The combat aircraft are capable of performing air-to-air, air-to-surface, maritime strike and reconnaissance roles.
> 
> https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-...-sign-mou-on-multi-role-combat-aircraft-soon/


weird, just a month ago we signed a deal with china for J-10C and now this? Do we even have the money to maintain that many platforms?


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## monitor

So many defense program going on in is truly unprecedented .

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## Nahid

monitor said:


> View attachment 454990
> 
> So many defense program going on in is truly unprecedented .


what is this? details plz.


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## monitor

Nahid said:


> what is this? details plz.



No details are available but this could be BAF evaluation for getting medium rang air defense system .

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## ghost250

monitor said:


> View attachment 454990
> 
> So many defense program going on in is truly unprecedented .


thats the search radar vehicle of LY-80E sam system..

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## Tanveer666

shourov323 said:


> thats the search radar vehicle of LY-80E sam system..


No S350?


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## monitor

shourov323 said:


> thats the search radar vehicle of LY-80E sam system..




If true then it's clear Bangladesh air force is considering LY-80 as their medium range air defense solution.










A privious visit by our defense delegates.

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## araberuni7

I have seen that masked photo in the year 2012 or 2013. bdmilitary posted that photo saying that this is a pre-shipment inspection. So ideally shipment takes 5 years by sea, accoording to bdmilitary. 

Another story here: 

In the year 2017, BAF find it very hard to justify $60 million dollar per Su-30SME, now all of a sudden BAF can justify 8X Su-35, 16x MiG-35 and 16X J-10C. 

Let's calculate. $720 million for MiG-35 (assuming overpriced than Egypt. $45m/MiG), $800 million for J-10C (Assuming overpriced than J-10B, $50m with full suite of electronics & ground support), $880 million for Su-35 (comparing price with Indonesian Su-35, $110 million/Su-35)

Sum up $800m+$800m+$720m = $2.32B just for the fighter jets. 

Any idiot can post anything in "brag book". That doesn't mean that Bangladesh signs contracts with billions of dollar every months. Bangladesh has $3.2B budget in a year.

Let bdmilitary supply rice and lantils to DGDB and post few fake news. These fake news are called patritism. You need think about national security and strategic defence for 160 million people. Don't tell me, have faith on few idiots who doesn't know what they are doing because *ground reality tells otherwise. *

I am against any war but I am in favor of deterence. $3.2B is a lot of money if you carefully plan and execute those plan. 

$67B GDP threathens the national security of $220B GDP. That tells lot of stroy and ground reality of "having faith on idiots" 

BTW, G2G signs MoU. DGDP goes to tender, evaluate tenders and sign contract. DGDP does not sign MoU.

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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> I have seen that masked photo in the year 2012 or 2013. bdmilitary posted that photo saying that this is a pre-shipment inspection. So ideally shipment takes 5 years by sea, accoording to bdmilitary.
> 
> Another story here:
> 
> In the year 2017, BAF find it very hard to justify $60 million dollar per Su-30SME, now all of a sudden BAF can justify 8X Su-35, 16x MiG-35 and 16X J-10C.
> 
> Let's calculate. $720 million for MiG-35 (assuming overpriced than Egypt. $45m/MiG), $800 million for J-10C (Assuming overpriced than J-10B, $50m with full suite of electronics & ground support), $880 million for Su-35 (comparing price with Indonesian Su-35, $110 million/Su-35)
> 
> Sum up $800m+$800m+$720m = $2.32B just for the fighter jets.
> 
> Any idiot can post anything in "brag book". That doesn't mean that Bangladesh signs contracts with billions of dollar every months. Bangladesh has $3.2B budget in a year.
> 
> Let bdmilitary supply rice and lantils to DGDB and post few fake news. These fake news are called patritism. You need think about national security and strategic defence for 160 million people. Don't tell me, have faith on few idiots who doesn't know what they are doing because *ground reality tells otherwise. *
> 
> I am against any war but I am in favor of deterence. $3.2B is a lot of money if you carefully plan and execute those plan.
> 
> $67B GDP threathens the national security of $220B GDP. That tells lot of stroy and ground reality of "having faith on idiots"
> 
> BTW, G2G signs MoU. DGDP goes to tender, evaluate tenders and sign contract. DGDP does not sign MoU.


I couldn't say it any better.


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## Tanveer666

araberuni7 said:


> BAF find it very hard to justify $60 million dollar per Su-30SME



i thought the russians didn't offer us SU-30SME's in the first place.

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## 帅的一匹

Tanveer666 said:


> i thought the russians didn't offer us SU-30SME's in the first place.


Is there any possibility that BAF turns for Su35 after Myanmar ordered Su30?

And J10b/c is coming as an independent 
Goverment to goverment deal(soft loan or military aid).

Some one in BAF section said BAF is gonna retire those old Mig-29 directly from its inventory, make the Mig-35 deal highly uncertain.

If I were the chief of BAF, I will go for Su35 and J10AESA combo.

Make bangs for those bucks!

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## Tanveer666

wanglaokan said:


> Is there any possibility that BAF turns for Su35 after Myanmar ordered Su30?
> 
> And J10b/c is coming as an independent
> Goverment to goverment deal(soft loan or military aid).
> 
> Some one in BAF section said BAF is gonna retire those old Mig-29 directly from its inventory, make the Mig-35 deal highly uncertain.
> 
> If I were the chief of BAF, I will go for Su35 and J10AESA combo.
> 
> Make bangs for those bucks!



that probably would've been they way to go under ideal circumstances. Infact many speculated this combo in the old bdmillitary forum, with 1-2 squadrons of Su35 and j-10b replacing F7; but alas, the russians apparently won't sell us Su35 if we don't buy mig35.


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## BDforever

wanglaokan said:


> Some one in BAF section said BAF is gonna retire those old Mig-29 directly from its inventory, make the Mig-35 deal highly uncertain.


Did you talk to BAF member ?


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## Nahid

araberuni7 said:


> I have seen that masked photo in the year 2012 or 2013. bdmilitary posted that photo saying that this is a pre-shipment inspection. So ideally shipment takes 5 years by sea, accoording to bdmilitary.
> 
> Another story here:
> 
> In the year 2017, BAF find it very hard to justify $60 million dollar per Su-30SME, now all of a sudden BAF can justify 8X Su-35, 16x MiG-35 and 16X J-10C.
> 
> Let's calculate. $720 million for MiG-35 (assuming overpriced than Egypt. $45m/MiG), $800 million for J-10C (Assuming overpriced than J-10B, $50m with full suite of electronics & ground support), $880 million for Su-35 (comparing price with Indonesian Su-35, $110 million/Su-35)
> 
> Sum up $800m+$800m+$720m = $2.32B just for the fighter jets.
> 
> Any idiot can post anything in "brag book". That doesn't mean that Bangladesh signs contracts with billions of dollar every months. Bangladesh has $3.2B budget in a year.
> 
> Let bdmilitary supply rice and lantils to DGDB and post few fake news. These fake news are called patritism. You need think about national security and strategic defence for 160 million people. Don't tell me, have faith on few idiots who doesn't know what they are doing because *ground reality tells otherwise. *
> 
> I am against any war but I am in favor of deterence. $3.2B is a lot of money if you carefully plan and execute those plan.
> 
> $67B GDP threathens the national security of $220B GDP. That tells lot of stroy and ground reality of "having faith on idiots"
> 
> BTW, G2G signs MoU. DGDP goes to tender, evaluate tenders and sign contract. DGDP does not sign MoU.


totaly agree with you.


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## BDforever

surprise news ! ! 





@wanglaokan

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## UKBengali

araberuni7 said:


> I have seen that masked photo in the year 2012 or 2013. bdmilitary posted that photo saying that this is a pre-shipment inspection. So ideally shipment takes 5 years by sea, accoording to bdmilitary.
> 
> Another story here:
> 
> In the year 2017, BAF find it very hard to justify $60 million dollar per Su-30SME, now all of a sudden BAF can justify 8X Su-35, 16x MiG-35 and 16X J-10C.
> 
> Let's calculate. $720 million for MiG-35 (assuming overpriced than Egypt. $45m/MiG), $800 million for J-10C (Assuming overpriced than J-10B, $50m with full suite of electronics & ground support), $880 million for Su-35 (comparing price with Indonesian Su-35, $110 million/Su-35)
> 
> Sum up $800m+$800m+$720m = $2.32B just for the fighter jets.
> 
> Any idiot can post anything in "brag book". That doesn't mean that Bangladesh signs contracts with billions of dollar every months. Bangladesh has $3.2B budget in a year.
> 
> Let bdmilitary supply rice and lantils to DGDB and post few fake news. These fake news are called patritism. You need think about national security and strategic defence for 160 million people. Don't tell me, have faith on few idiots who doesn't know what they are doing because *ground reality tells otherwise. *
> 
> I am against any war but I am in favor of deterence. $3.2B is a lot of money if you carefully plan and execute those plan.
> 
> $67B GDP threathens the national security of $220B GDP. That tells lot of stroy and ground reality of "having faith on idiots"
> 
> BTW, G2G signs MoU. DGDP goes to tender, evaluate tenders and sign contract. DGDP does not sign MoU.




You make some good points but your mathematical reasoning is incorrect.

For a start, BD spends 4 billion US dollars a year on defence, when you take arms imports into account.
The budget is also growing by 7% a year in real terms. BD does not need to pay for the weapons upfront as it gets credit from both Russia and China.

Assume that it is true that BD has ordered 8 Su-35 + 16 J-10C + 16 Mig35 and the cost is 2.32 US billion dollars as you calculate, then this is affordable. BD will pay around 2.5-3 billion US dollars over 5 years. Even at the higher end that is 600 million US dollars a year. BD is spending around 1 billion US dollars now on arms purchases(imports + domestic production) and this will rise to 1.5 billion US dollars in 5 years. and so BD has 6-7 billion dollars available in the next 5 years to buy arms. Since the BAF will be prioritised, 2.32 billion US dollars is affordable and this still leaves many billions for Army and Navy.



wanglaokan said:


> Is there any possibility that BAF turns for Su35 after Myanmar ordered Su30?
> 
> And J10b/c is coming as an independent
> Goverment to goverment deal(soft loan or military aid).
> 
> Some one in BAF section said BAF is gonna retire those old Mig-29 directly from its inventory, make the Mig-35 deal highly uncertain.
> 
> If I were the chief of BAF, I will go for Su35 and J10AESA combo.
> 
> Make bangs for those bucks!




Bro, buying Mig-35 if the Russians have offered an assembly line is worth it. 
We need to remember that BD is a fast developing country of 160 million people and it wants to
build an aviation industry for strategic reasons.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> You make some good points but your mathematical reasoning is incorrect.
> 
> For a start, BD spends 4 billion US dollars a year on defence, when you take arms imports into account.
> The budget is also growing by 7% a year in real terms. BD does not need to pay for the weapons upfront as it gets credit from both Russia and China.
> 
> Assume that it is true that BD has ordered 8 Su-35 + 16 J-10C + 16 Mig35 and the cost is 2.32 US billion dollars as you calculate, then this is affordable. BD will pay around 2.5-3 billion US dollars over 5 years. Even at the higher end that is 600 million US dollars a year. BD is spending around 1 billion US dollars now on arms purchases(imports + domestic production) and this will rise to 1.5 billion US dollars in 5 years. and so BD has 6-7 billion dollars available in the next 5 years to buy arms. Since the BAF will be prioritised, 2.32 billion US dollars is affordable and this still leaves many billions for Army and Navy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, buying Mig-35 if the Russians have offered an assembly line is worth it.
> We need to remember that BD is a fast developing country of 160 million people and it wants to
> build an aviation industry for strategic reasons.



I find it difficult to believe that BD will actually get 10 squadrons of anything.

That being said, if all these reports are true, it looks like the Russians are blackmailing BD into buying the MiG-35 to get access to the SU-35.

And if that truly is the case, then perhaps the plan is to locally assemble the MiG-35 in numbers while outright buying the SU-35.

The J-10 may just be a hedge to keep a Chinese source for diversification reasons rather than any capability the J-10 brings. It’s apparently redundant getting both the Firebird and Fulcrums.

Of course all this can just be speculation and fanboi dreams.

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## 帅的一匹

BDforever said:


> surprise news ! !
> View attachment 455687
> 
> @wanglaokan


Means BAF is not interested in Mig-29 series, or Russia tags very high price for the updation.
Or maybe they are ready to receive new squadrons.

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## araberuni7

wanglaokan said:


> Is there any possibility that BAF turns for Su35 after Myanmar ordered Su30?
> 
> And J10b/c is coming as an independent
> Goverment to goverment deal(soft loan or military aid).
> 
> Some one in BAF section said BAF is gonna retire those old Mig-29 directly from its inventory, make the Mig-35 deal highly uncertain.
> 
> If I were the chief of BAF, I will go for Su35 and J10AESA combo.
> 
> Make bangs for those bucks!



I would love to see you as BAF chief. So why this simple equation everyone understand except BAF!

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## Avicenna

araberuni7 said:


> I would love to see you as BAF chief. So why this simple equation everyone understand except BAF!



Its really not that difficult right? SU-35 and J-10B or C.

Thats it!

Problem is the unknown behind the scene politics that are talking place. 

OR its just that the BAF is incompetent.

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## araberuni7

Let's break it down to what we have to play with instead what we can dream off having.

$3.2 Billion in total per year + sum extra cash for Forces Goal Shipping List

Assuming and comparing with regional forces. Please feel free to input and be rational about your position. 

Salary for three forces = $600m
Maintaining existing operational capability (cantonment, air base, naval base) = $300m
Maintenance of all military hardware = $300m
Training = $150m
UN Peacekeeping = $200m
Operating BOF, BMTF, KSY and another enterprise = $250m (I am conservative here. it may be more from my experience. let's assume small enterprise)
Funding developmental work and managing project at BOF, BMTF, KSY and another enterprise = $350m
Total = $2.15B


We have left with $1.05B for actual procurement of military hardware for three forces. It's evident that BAF is stretched and tormented by a shortfall of money. But that’s their problem too why are inactive, not active like BN.

*@Avicenna BAF is incompetent, PERIOD 
Agreed with @BDforever, @Nahid @Major Saheb @ UKBegali*

So how the other guys do it when they buy European hardware, for example, Malaysia defence budget USD3.6 and Indonesia defence budget are USD8.17.

The civilian and military organisation are better managed in both regional militaries. Indonesia is better at managing their fund and negotiating with Russian and American. Malaysia is better at managing contract and negotiating with partners to get best out of them. Malaysia always bought fighter jets from America and Russia to balance the power. Malaysia shortlisted Typhoon and Rafale to replace MiG-29. British offered RMAF a generous package of LoC.

Bangladesh has been so focused on China and Russia that they lost track of other ways we can manage the relationship with EU, America and also China/Russia. Bangladeshis aren't well maintained when comes any projects or any procurement regardless of civilian or military projects. Our fundamental understanding of projects is who gets what? We are very nationalist, patriot but not focused on building anything and learning a better way to do our job. We know what we know. We don't care what other know and learn from them quickly for example Indian is learnt that private defence sector works better than public defence sector. 

I rather stop now.

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## BDforever

The Ronin said:


> Hola!!


old news and wait for the delivery

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## The Ronin

BDforever said:


> old news and wait for the delivery



Damn!! DTB got me, i forgot to notice the date. Still this is new to me cause i missed it. So Mig-35 is sure?? One thing is confirm then??

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## BDforever

The Ronin said:


> Damn!! DTB got me, i forgot to notice the date. Still this is new to me cause i missed it. So Mig-35 is sure?? One thing is confirm then??


so many things are confirmed that I can't share lol

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> That being said, if all these reports are true, it looks like the Russians are blackmailing BD into buying the MiG-35 to get access to the SU-35.


It’s the other way around thanks to our Chinese friends selling us j10c, j-10B production line have stopped since last year. 


wanglaokan said:


> Means BAF is not interested in Mig-29 series, or Russia tags very high price for the updation.
> Or maybe they are ready to receive new squadrons.


These have finished their first major overhauls, two more left and still have some life left in them, their will be minimum upgrades from third party vendors like Ukraine but that’s about it, too little amount of planes to warrant complete upgradation as funds are allocated for more serious purchase.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

OMG!!! fighter aircraft dealings r going on. so many news will not be discloses before election.

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## bluesky

BDforever said:


> so many things are confirmed that I can't share lol


Tell us. Some people will understand the truths and acknowledge them. However, here a few are just speculating things like how to become the BAF Chief, Russia is blackmailing BD, etc. etc.

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## BDforever

bluesky said:


> Tell us. Some people will understand the truths and acknowledge them. However, here a few are just speculating things like how to become the BAF Chief, Russia is blackmailing BD, etc. etc.


parbo na, nished asey

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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> parbo na, nished asey


Are you the wife of this fat belly air force chief?

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## bluesky

BDforever said:


> parbo na, nished asey


But, can we expect some good outcome from the present BAF Chief? Or, we will propose a new teenage BAF Chief from this PDF who can take quick decision about inducting about 60 sq. of 5G planes? I hope this new teenager Chief will not require any base to house the planes.

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## Tanveer666

TopCat said:


> Are you the wife of this fat belly air force chief?


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Are you the wife of this fat belly air force chief?


If yes, she’s definitely satisfied, she gets penetrated twice. XD


----------



## bluesky

TopCat said:


> Are you the wife of this fat belly air force chief?


How about this idea? BIMAN appoints the next BAF Chief and he buys all the planes although air bases have not yet been built, and the new Chief asks India to provide the bases. Since, the PDF BD members have little patience left, how about my super idea?

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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> How about this idea? BIMAN appoints the next BAF Chief and he buys all the planes although air bases have not yet been built, and the new Chief asks India to provide the bases. Since, the PDF BD members have little patience left, how about my super idea?


How about for the next 3 chief comes and go with newly built airbase with no aircraft in them? Cox's bazar, Dhaka, Chittagong airbases can hold at leat 4 more squadron of fighter jets.

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## The Ronin

BAF commando member with Brazilian Taurus SMT-9 compact 9mm SMG.

Taurus has won the SMG contract of BAF and they will supply 200 SMG within few months.

Source- DTB

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## Allah Akbar

A huge amount of them used by the APBN already


The Ronin said:


> BAF commando member with Brazilian Taurus SMT-9 compact 9mm SMG.
> 
> Taurus has won the SMG contract of BAF and they will supply 200 SMG within few months.
> 
> Source- DTB


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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> BAF commando member with Brazilian Taurus SMT-9 compact 9mm SMG.
> 
> Taurus has won the SMG contract of BAF and they will supply 200 SMG within few months.
> 
> Source- DTB


I thought airforce fight with pilot and fighter not with commando. What a bunch of idiots.

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## Arthur

TopCat said:


> I thought airforce fight with pilot and fighter not with commando. What a bunch of idiots.


Read up a bit. will ya?
USAF Special Operations Command. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Special_Operations_Command

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## TopCat

Khan saheb said:


> Read up a bit. will ya?
> USAF Special Operations Command.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Special_Operations_Command


Ya now we are USAF...

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## MiG-35-BD

nice gun. Wish I could join BAF and play with them.


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## Avicenna

Banglerdash Air Force is pathetic.

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## Tanveer666

Avicenna said:


> Banglerdash Air Force is pathetic.



Ain't that a surprise!


----------



## muhammadali233

F-35 is also confirmed along with J-10,Mig-35 and Su-30s,news just in,really wtf....
Seriously what is happening?BD can aquire single platform no doubt not 3 like the conflicting reports posted here, a single platform can cost around 5+Billion$ that too for the intial batch.BD is surely not following Qatar model,qatar has the money and strong relations needed to support multiple platforms,BD has neither.


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## Avicenna

muhammadali233 said:


> F-35 is also confirmed along with J-10,Mig-35 and Su-30s,news just in,really wtf....
> Seriously what is happening?BD can aquire single platform no doubt not 3 like the conflicting reports posted here, a single platform can cost around 5+Billion$ that too for the intial batch.BD is surely not following Qatar model,qatar has the money and strong relations needed to support multiple platforms,BD has neither.



Honestly, i am perplexed as well.

Its not that difficult to choose something and act.


----------



## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Honestly, i am perplexed as well.
> 
> Its not that difficult to choose something and act.



BAF were only authorised by government last year to buy fighters. Takes 18-24 months to conclude a deal.

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## Imran Khan

muhammadali233 said:


> F-35 is also confirmed along with J-10,Mig-35 and Su-30s,news just in,really wtf....
> Seriously what is happening?BD can aquire single platform no doubt not 3 like the conflicting reports posted here, a single platform can cost around 5+Billion$ that too for the intial batch.BD is surely not following Qatar model,qatar has the money and strong relations needed to support multiple platforms,BD has neither.


they have some plan change the ballance of power is south asia with massive airforce .

200 f-35
350 j-10
265 mig 35
398 su-35

and 7 mig-29 with support of 20 j-7

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## Avicenna

Zulfiqar1919 said:


> Let's be honest, Bangladesh is basically India's b****. They will never amount to anymore more. That's what they get for preferring bengali nationalism to Islam.



Yea. And thats where you're wrong. 

The current government basically is India's bitch.

But Bangladesh doesnt have to be that.

As for nationalism vs Islam. That arguement doesnt hold water.

But stirring that hornets nest will send this thread to the trash can.



Imran Khan said:


> they have some plan change the ballance of power is south asia with massive airforce .
> 
> 200 f-35
> 350 j-10
> 265 mig 35
> 398 su-35
> 
> and 7 mig-29 with support of 20 j-7



Your sarcasm isnt appreciated.

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## The-Hack

Imran Khan said:


> they have some plan change the ballance of power is south asia with massive airforce .
> 
> 200 f-35
> 350 j-10
> 265 mig 35
> 398 su-35
> 
> and 7 mig-29 with support of 20 j-7


More over:
119 F-22 Raptors
95 F-18 Super Hornet
43 Dassault Rafale
Probably 17 Euro-fighter Typhoon
Also news about 15 to 20 X-15's

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## Tanveer666

Zulfiqar1919 said:


> Let's be honest, Bangladesh is basically India's b****. They will never amount to anymore more. That's what they get for preferring bengali nationalism to Islam.



careful folks.





EDIT: damn it how do i post images


----------



## The-Hack

Avicenna said:


> Banglerdash Air Force is pathetic.


hahaha, oh man 
Pathetic



Tanveer666 said:


> careful folks.


your picture is not visible...........


----------



## Avicenna

Gonna try to re-direct this thread from attempts at trolling and other snide comments back to 
relevant matters.

What are the functional air bases that BAF has currently?

And what is under construction? When will they be complete by?

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Gonna try to re-direct this thread from attempts at trolling and other snide comments back to
> relevant matters.
> 
> What are the functional air bases that BAF has currently?
> 
> And what is under construction? When will they be complete by?


Five in operation. Dhaka, Chittagong, Cox's Bazar, Bogra and Jessor. Two under construction Sylhet And Patuakhali(most probably Barishal airport will be enhanced to support BAF operations).

@The Eagle bhai, can you clear the thread of off topic posts,Please? Thanks.

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## The-Hack

*https://www.baf.mil.bd/?page_id=1125*

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## Avicenna

Khan saheb said:


> Five in operation. Dhaka, Chittagong, Cox's Bazar, Bogra and Jessor. Two under construction Sylhet And Patiakhali(most probably Barishal airport will be enhanced to support BAF operati).



So that will make a total of 7 functional AF bases.

Now what are the current squadrons in BAF service. By that I mean the Mig-29s, F-7s, L-39s, Yak-130s.


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## The-Hack

Tanveer666 said:


> careful folks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: damn it how do i post images


you can learn any thing from members introduction forum
Post your problem and waiting for valid reply

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## araberuni7

US Excess Defence Article (EDA) Request by Bangladesh.

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## Bilal9

@The Eagle bhai last two pages have too many troll posts. Your assistance is appreciated.

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## Tanveer666

araberuni7 said:


> US Excess Defence Article (EDA) Request by Bangladesh.
> View attachment 457702



So we are getting the c-130H rather than RAF c-130J


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## TopCat

Tanveer666 said:


> So we are getting the c-130H rather than RAF c-130J


That was later cancelled and we are now getting them from britain.


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## araberuni7

TopCat said:


> That was later cancelled and we are now getting them from britain.


Yes wc-130 is cancelled but c-130h is approved for delivery. I have doubt over raf c-130j!


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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> Yes wc-130 is cancelled but c-130h is approved for delivery. I have doubt over raf c-130j!


That was Feb 2017 when it was approved. But later I heard thats not gonna come.


----------



## Avicenna

araberuni7 said:


> Yes wc-130 is cancelled but c-130h is approved for delivery. I have doubt over raf c-130j!



http://www.c-130hercules.net/forums...ladesh-to-buy-two-raf-c130j-transport-planes/

Not sure how legit this is.


----------



## The Ronin

We are getting C-130J from RAF that is 100% confirmed. Even BAF official said it last year. Maybe these two will join the fleet this year. Why are you doubting about it now?

http://airrecognition.com/index.php...x-raf-hercules-c5-airlifters-procurement.html





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=583667265143521

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## Tanveer666

Avicenna said:


> http://www.c-130hercules.net/forums...ladesh-to-buy-two-raf-c130j-transport-planes/
> 
> Not sure how legit this is.





The Ronin said:


> We are getting C-130J from RAF that is 100% confirmed. Even BAF official said it last year. Maybe these two will join the fleet this year. Why are you doubting about it now?
> 
> http://airrecognition.com/index.php...x-raf-hercules-c5-airlifters-procurement.html



Both of the cite Bdmillitary as their source. so it's all but confirmed.

But one thing to note is that airrrecognition is saying that the four C-130's that we operate are the E variant and that they were bought in 2012! is this true? i thought we purchased the B variants, back in the late 90's?

EDIT: i think they were referring to this : http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/bangladesh-c-130e-aircraft

but its about "overhauling the existing C-130's

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## araberuni7

This is the correct report from UK. Reference iNews Great Britain & Marshall Aerospace 

Bangladesh is also planning to buy two of the ex-RAF aircraft, which are capable of tactical operations, parachute insertions and the air dispatch of cargo, in a similar deal. Sri Lanka is also understood to be discussing the purchase of RAF aircraft.

Which means Bangladesh did not sign the agreement yet. Only Bahrain signed the contract and paid £30 to Britain for the aircraft to be refurbished by Marshall Aerospace.

Again bdmilitary is full of sh#$t.

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## Shorisrip

araberuni7 said:


> Only Bahrain signed the contract and paid £30 to Britain for the aircraft to be refurbished by Marshall Aerospace.



That's super cheap.

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Nah, that is E variant which was canceled, this is mentioned in the report. also the article is from 2012. The request for H variant was made in 2017. So we can hope for one H variant from USA and two Super Hercules from UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep bringing BD Military in every news. You did it before about the 1 billion deal including J-10 on East Pendulum. *Plane spotter talk about C-130J before BD Military*. Do you have any proof that Plane Spotter cited the news from BD military??



Did not know that.


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> So we are getting the c-130H rather than RAF c-130J


H was declined by US, offered B so we got ex RAF...

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## Tanveer666

araberuni7 said:


> This is the correct report from UK. Reference iNews Great Britain & Marshall Aerospace
> 
> Bangladesh is also planning to buy two of the ex-RAF aircraft, which are capable of tactical operations, parachute insertions and the air dispatch of cargo, in a similar deal. Sri Lanka is also understood to be discussing the purchase of RAF aircraft.
> 
> Which means Bangladesh did not sign the agreement yet. Only Bahrain signed the contract and paid £30 to Britain for the aircraft to be refurbished by Marshall Aerospace.
> 
> Again bdmilitary is full of sh#$t.



https://inews.co.uk/news/revealed-britain-sells-ex-raf-aircraft-bahrain-human-rights-abusers/ here it is. 



Shorisrip said:


> That's super cheap.



its a symbolic price.


----------



## Centaur

BDforever said:


> parbo na, nished asey


Bhai kothay posting apnar? Deshe naki baire? ami kintu mela agei kisuta andaz kore felsi ze apni asol jinis , khali upore upore fastfood shop chalan 
@BDforever


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## TopCat

Centaur said:


> Bhai kothay posting apnar? Deshe naki baire? ami kintu mela agei kisuta andaz kore felsi ze apni asol jinis , khali upore upore fastfood shop chalan
> @BDforever


Its her...

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## Centaur

TopCat said:


> Its her...


Oh I see. So do you guys know each other in real life?


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## TopCat

Centaur said:


> Oh I see. So do you guys know each other in real life?


Ya i dated her....


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## Centaur

TopCat said:


> Ya i dated her....


Well I saw *his profile. Probably he is a 'he'. *However that doesn't concern me if he is a 'he' or 'she'.


----------



## 帅的一匹

It shows China is big fan of USAAF F16, look at the radar discharge strips design. kudos to F16.

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## Bilal9

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 459429



Nice Hongdu L-15.

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## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 459429
> 
> 
> It shows China is big fan of USAAF F16, look at the radar discharge strips design. kudos to F16.


Did not get your point.


----------



## 帅的一匹

The Ronin said:


> It rather looks like Yak-130 with twin engine.


The rear part is different

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## Major 13625

Hey I have a question, as per forces goal 2030 BAF is going to induct 10 squadron fighters! but what about those yaks, k 8s and f 7 bgs? will BAF include them as those10 squadrons? or exclude them?


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## TopCat

Major 13625 said:


> Hey I have a question, as per forces goal 2030 BAF is going to induct 10 squadron fighters! but what about those yaks, k 8s and f 7 bgs? will BAF include them as those10 squadrons? or exclude them?


In the last 10 years when goal was set we did not buy nothing. We will buy couple of squadron of fighter at best in the next 10 years. So don't worry about the complex numbers.

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## Tanveer666

Major 13625 said:


> Hey I have a question, as per forces goal 2030 BAF is going to induct 10 squadron fighters! but what about those yaks, k 8s and f 7 bgs? will BAF include them as those10 squadrons? or exclude them?


include them, most likey.


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## Michael Corleone

Major 13625 said:


> Hey I have a question, as per forces goal 2030 BAF is going to induct 10 squadron fighters! but what about those yaks, k 8s and f 7 bgs? will BAF include them as those10 squadrons? or exclude them?


The trainers are bought and a special fighter training school has been setup. These will not be among the 10 planned. If the economy stays stable, 5 squadrons is guaranteed till 2030 but as the economy grows so will the purchasing speed


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> In the last 10 years when goal was set we did not buy nothing. We will buy couple of squadron of fighter at best in the next 10 years. So don't worry about the complex numbers.



Not sure how you came to this conclusion.
Navy announced that it will build 6 frigates by 2030 and why should BAF not buy 10 fighter squadrons in next 12 years to match this?
BD economy is getting larger every year and I can see defence budget being 10 billion US dollars in today's money by 2030.


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## MiG-35-BD

No airforce counts trainer aircraft as "squadrons". BAF being a professional force not run by internet trolls, surely will not either.

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## Major 13625

yak 130 and k 8 are trainers, not even light fighters. light fighters are like tejas or gripen. yeah they can act as attack aircraft but we can't count them as fighters.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Not sure how you came to this conclusion.
> Navy announced that it will build 6 frigates by 2030 and why should BAF not buy 10 fighter squadrons in next 12 years to match this?
> BD economy is getting larger every year and I can see defence budget being 10 billion US dollars in today's money by 2030.


For that they need to buy a squadron every year. Do you think bd airforce have that kind of balls or they can justify this to parliament. I dont think so.


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## Major 13625

All I have seen till now army modernizing for UN missions and disaster management. They have induct some modern weapons but those are inadequate in numbers and pose no credible threat to others. people would say why? BD is not going to war with anybody! I agree. but some time you need to have deterrent power to negotiate. Look at iran or DPRK, western countries negotiate with them cz they have credible powers. Even now trump wanna meet kim! why? bcz that guy has balls. And if u follow Gandhi matobad than countries like MM will push you. All you can do, flag meeting and patrolling border with BGP and taking selfies!

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## Tanveer666

Major 13625 said:


> All I have seen till now army modernizing for UN missions and disaster management. They have induct some modern weapons but those are inadequate in numbers and pose no credible threat to others. people would say why? BD is not going to war with anybody! I agree. but some time you need to have deterrent power to negotiate. Look at iran or DPRK, western countries negotiate with them cz they have credible powers. Even now trump wanna meet kim! why? bcz that guy has balls. And if u follow Gandhi matobad than countries like MM will push you. All you can do, flag meeting and patrolling border with BGP and taking selfies!



tell us something we dont know.....


----------



## Major 13625

Tanveer666 said:


> tell us something we dont know.....


What should I say? u know I know...if things like this going on we will get fu★★ sooner or later. Do u think MM will take back those one million rohigya? They are just wasting time to relieve them from international pressure. After some years this issue will become dead and all those burden will fall upon BD.

On November 23, 2017, Bangladesh and
Myanmar signed an agreement on the
return of displaced Myanmar persons
sheltered in Bangladesh.
Myanmar has verified only 374 Rohingyas
from over 8,000 identified by Bangladesh for
possible repatriation to their homeland in
Rakhine state, the relief and refugee
repatriation commissioner said on
Wednesday.
Abul Kalam told UNB that the Myanmar
authorities had conveyed the meagre total to
the Bangladesh embassy in Yangon.
Asked whether the verified Rohingyas are
ready to go back to Myanmar, the
commissioner said they were “yet to talk to
them over the matter”.
In the past six months, almost 700,000
Rohingya refugees have fled violent
persecution by the Myanmar military and
local Moghs in their Rakhine state homeland.
Since the influx began, local residents in the
Cox’s Bazar have been struggling with major
challenges, from overstretched infrastructure
to major hikes in food prices.
On November 23 last year, Bangladesh and
Myanmar signed an ‘arrangement’ on the
return of displaced Myanmar persons
sheltered in Bangladesh.
To facilitate the process, the two countries
later signed a document on Physical
Arrangement, which stipulated that the
repatriation will be completed “preferably
within two years” from the start date.
There was no specific timeframe to start the
repatriation but Bangladesh had expressed
the hope that it would start “soon”.
Last month, Bangladesh handed a list of
8,032 Rohingya from 1,673 families to
Myanmar, to start the first phase of
repatriations.
On Wednesday, Myint Thu, the permanent
secretary at Myanmar’s ministry of foreign
affairs, told reporters in Naypyidaw that they
had scrutinized the list.
The subsequent decision to accept only 374
Rohingya came one day after the United
Nations Special Adviser to the Secretary-
General on the Prevention of Genocide,
Adama Dieng, described the scorched earth
campaign carried out by the Myanmar
security forces as “predictable and
preventable.”
“Despite the numerous warnings I’ve made of
the risk of atrocity crimes, the international
community has buried its head in the sand,”
he said. “This has cost the Rohingya
population of Myanmar their lives, their
dignity and their homes.”


----------



## Tanveer666

Major 13625 said:


> What should I say? u know I know...if things like this going on we will get fu★★ sooner or later. *Do u think MM will take back those one million rohigya*? They are just wasting time to relieve them from international pressure. After some years this issue will become dead and all those burden will fall upon BD.
> 
> On November 23, 2017, Bangladesh and
> Myanmar signed an agreement on the
> return of displaced Myanmar persons
> sheltered in Bangladesh.
> Myanmar has verified only 374 Rohingyas
> from over 8,000 identified by Bangladesh for
> possible repatriation to their homeland in
> Rakhine state, the relief and refugee
> repatriation commissioner said on
> Wednesday.
> Abul Kalam told UNB that the Myanmar
> authorities had conveyed the meagre total to
> the Bangladesh embassy in Yangon.
> Asked whether the verified Rohingyas are
> ready to go back to Myanmar, the
> commissioner said they were “yet to talk to
> them over the matter”.
> In the past six months, almost 700,000
> Rohingya refugees have fled violent
> persecution by the Myanmar military and
> local Moghs in their Rakhine state homeland.
> Since the influx began, local residents in the
> Cox’s Bazar have been struggling with major
> challenges, from overstretched infrastructure
> to major hikes in food prices.
> On November 23 last year, Bangladesh and
> Myanmar signed an ‘arrangement’ on the
> return of displaced Myanmar persons
> sheltered in Bangladesh.
> To facilitate the process, the two countries
> later signed a document on Physical
> Arrangement, which stipulated that the
> repatriation will be completed “preferably
> within two years” from the start date.
> There was no specific timeframe to start the
> repatriation but Bangladesh had expressed
> the hope that it would start “soon”.
> Last month, Bangladesh handed a list of
> 8,032 Rohingya from 1,673 families to
> Myanmar, to start the first phase of
> repatriations.
> On Wednesday, Myint Thu, the permanent
> secretary at Myanmar’s ministry of foreign
> affairs, told reporters in Naypyidaw that they
> had scrutinized the list.
> The subsequent decision to accept only 374
> Rohingya came one day after the United
> Nations Special Adviser to the Secretary-
> General on the Prevention of Genocide,
> Adama Dieng, described the scorched earth
> campaign carried out by the Myanmar
> security forces as “predictable and
> preventable.”
> “Despite the numerous warnings I’ve made of
> the risk of atrocity crimes, the international
> community has buried its head in the sand,”
> he said. “This has cost the Rohingya
> population of Myanmar their lives, their
> dignity and their homes.”



I think it was obvious from the start, that they weren't taking 'em back. 

And regarding your first statment, i fully agree with it. After all '_Weakness invites provocation'_ and this is exactly we are facing right now. Anyway lets hope that BD defence officals are fully aware of this "saying' and are taking necessary steps to rectify them. After all, it does it quite a long time to make defense procurements.

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## mb444

BD military is not fit for purpose and BD politicians have utterly failed in developing a proper geostrategic position.

Forces goal will not be achieved and there is not even a pretence that it is being followed. Forces goal at any rate did not really envision a credible defense force as it did not consider actions and military buildup by our foes.

Forces goal should be read by the posters here.... it is a document that assumes BD exists in a vacuum.... it suggests building up of forces without clarifying why and in response to what. It is not worth the paper it is written on. It’s a statement of intent without any strategic underpinnings and as with any intention without purpose , it will fail....and have failed.

BD deserved better but we are cursed with moronic politicians and a cowardly military interested in running businesses than fighting our enemies.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> BD military is not fit for purpose and BD politicians have utterly failed in developing a proper geostrategic position.
> 
> Forces goal will not be achieved and there is not even a pretence that it is being followed. Forces goal at any rate did not really envision a credible defense force as it did not consider actions and military buildup by our foes.
> 
> Forces goal should be read by the posters here.... it is a document that assumes BD exists in a vacuum.... it suggests building up of forces without clarifying why and in response to what. It is not worth the paper it is written on. It’s a statement of intent without any strategic underpinnings and as with any intention without purpose , it will fail....and have failed.
> 
> BD deserved better but we are cursed with moronic politicians and a cowardly military interested in running businesses than fighting our enemies.




BD Navy has openly stated that it will start building the first of 6 frigates by end of this year or early next. All six ships will be in service by 2030. This will give BD the 2nd most powerful Navy in S Asian - even more powerful than what Pakistan will have by 2030.

Yes, BAF should have had at least 1 squadron(16) of 4+ generation fighters by now but the World Bank did play it dirty over the Padma Bridge funding earlier this decade. This forced BD to spend 4 billion US dollars building the bridge itself. Funding will by in large come to an end this year, and so this 1 billion dollars a year that will be free from next year could in theory be spent on buying 4+ gen fighter aircraft.

I think that "Forces Goal 2030" will be achieved to give BD a far more powerful military than Myanmar, and one strong enough to resist all but an all-out attack by India.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> BD military is not fit for purpose and BD politicians have utterly failed in developing a proper geostrategic position.
> 
> Forces goal will not be achieved and there is not even a pretence that it is being followed. Forces goal at any rate did not really envision a credible defense force as it did not consider actions and military buildup by our foes.
> 
> Forces goal should be read by the posters here.... it is a document that assumes BD exists in a vacuum.... it suggests building up of forces without clarifying why and in response to what. It is not worth the paper it is written on. It’s a statement of intent without any strategic underpinnings and as with any intention without purpose , it will fail....and have failed.
> 
> BD deserved better but we are cursed with moronic politicians and a cowardly military interested in running businesses than fighting our enemies.


This is why I never joined... anyways do you have the document link!?


----------



## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> BD Navy has openly stated that it will start building the first of 6 frigates by end of this year or early next. All six ships will be in service by 2030. This will give BD the 2nd most powerful Navy in S Asian - even more powerful than what Pakistan will have by 2030.



Very accurate. With the addition of subs and ASW aviation components even more so.

However I am waiting for the Pakistani trolls to come running right now.....


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Bilal9 said:


> I am waiting for the Pakistani trolls to come running right now.....


An alleged deal for 6 frigates will make BD Navy powerful compared to Pak?

While deals for :

4 Type 54A
4 MILGEMS
4 SWIFTSHIP Corvettes
2-4 Damen ships
8 Submarines
4 Mini subs

etc etc

Will make Pak weak..

And yet you have the audacity to call Pakistanis "trolls" ?

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## Avicenna

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> An alleged deal for 6 frigates will make BD Nany powerful compared to Pak?
> 
> While deals for :
> 
> 4 Type 54A
> 4 MILGEMS
> 4 SWIFTSHIP Corvettes
> 2-4 Damen ships
> 8 Submarines
> 4 Mini subs
> 
> etc etc
> 
> Will make Pak weak..
> 
> And yet you have the audacity to call Pakistanis "trolls" ?



Some of the stupidity being posted here only makes your job easier.

That being said, a lot of the times you guys start it.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155262365981003

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Avicenna said:


> Some of the stupidity being posted here only makes your job easier.
> 
> That being said, a lot of the times you guys start it.


Its mostly indians bro.

Than come some pissed off Pak members who are pissed off at the same behaviour we just saw.

Nilgiri tags me in almost all his troll posts but i never post there...

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## Avicenna

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its mostly indians bro.
> 
> Than come some pissed off Pak members who are pissed off at the same behaviour we just saw.
> 
> Nilgiri tags me in almost all his troll posts but i never post there...



Its the same 4 or 5 members who troll.

In anycase, strive for unity amongst BD and PK.

Its for the greater good.

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## bluesky

Major 13625 said:


> On November 23, 2017, Bangladesh and
> Myanmar signed an agreement on the
> return of displaced Myanmar persons
> sheltered in Bangladesh.
> Myanmar has verified only 374 Rohingyas
> from over 8,000 identified by Bangladesh for
> possible repatriation to their homeland in
> Rakhine state, the relief and refugee
> repatriation commissioner said on
> Wednesday.
> Abul Kalam told UNB that the Myanmar
> authorities had conveyed the meagre total to
> the Bangladesh embassy in Yangon.
> Asked whether the verified Rohingyas are
> ready to go back to Myanmar, the
> commissioner said they were “yet to talk to
> them over the matter”.
> In the past six months, almost 700,000
> Rohingya refugees have fled violent
> persecution by the Myanmar military and
> local Moghs in their Rakhine state homeland.
> Since the influx began, local residents in the
> Cox’s Bazar have been struggling with major
> challenges, from overstretched infrastructure
> to major hikes in food prices.
> On November 23 last year, Bangladesh and
> Myanmar signed an ‘arrangement’ on the
> return of displaced Myanmar persons
> sheltered in Bangladesh.
> To facilitate the process, the two countries
> later signed a document on Physical
> Arrangement, which stipulated that the
> repatriation will be completed “preferably
> within two years” from the start date.
> There was no specific timeframe to start the
> repatriation but Bangladesh had expressed
> the hope that it would start “soon”.
> Last month, Bangladesh handed a list of
> 8,032 Rohingya from 1,673 families to
> Myanmar, to start the first phase of
> repatriations.
> On Wednesday, Myint Thu, the permanent
> secretary at Myanmar’s ministry of foreign
> affairs, told reporters in Naypyidaw that they
> had scrutinized the list.
> The subsequent decision to accept only 374
> Rohingya came one day after the United
> Nations Special Adviser to the Secretary-
> General on the Prevention of Genocide,
> Adama Dieng, described the scorched earth
> campaign carried out by the Myanmar
> security forces as “predictable and
> preventable.”
> “Despite the numerous warnings I’ve made of
> the risk of atrocity crimes, the international
> community has buried its head in the sand,”
> he said. “This has cost the Rohingya
> population of Myanmar their lives, their
> dignity and their homes.”



Are u practicing poetry writing here? If not, please stop writing in this style. I have seen another of your post in Bengali and posted in poetry form.

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## TopCat

Any new sensation from bdmilitary yet? Looks like people stopped posting their gems in the forum @BDforever also long gone.


----------



## The Ronin

করাচীতে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর এন-৩২ ট্রান্সপোর্ট এয়ারক্রাফট।

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## mb444

TopCat said:


> Any new sensation from bdmilitary yet? Looks like people stopped posting their gems in the forum @BDforever also long gone.




laugh when you see stupidity and gently steer people to the light.....everyone wants BD to progress but we are hampered by our idiotic and cowardly leadership... everyone of us are impatient with the wait that has been too long for signs of progressive leadership.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> @BDforever also long gone.



What happened to him ??


----------



## ghost250

3x mig 29 formation..

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## Tanveer666

shourov323 said:


> 3x mig 29 formation..
> View attachment 460102



old pic. but i didn't realize mig29's were stationed in CTG.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> old pic. but i didn't realize mig29's were stationed in CTG.


But they aren’t.

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## TopCat

shourov323 said:


> 3x mig 29 formation..
> View attachment 460102


Why are you posting the same junk again and again.... YOu think people did not see Mig-29 before?

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> But they aren’t.



Poster does not realise how small BD is.

Apart from the far South East and North West, fighters stationed in Dhaka can protect BD airspace easily without having to worry about running out of fuel.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Poster does not realise how small BD is.
> 
> Apart from the far South East and North West, fighters stationed in Dhaka can protect BD airspace easily without having to worry about running out of fuel.


Its all about survivability. More airport, more bases means more ways to survive in a battle.


----------



## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Its all about survivability. More airport, more bases means more ways to survive in a battle.



I know that but that is not the point I was trying to make here.


----------



## ghost250

TopCat said:


> Why are you posting the same junk again and again.... YOu think people did not see Mig-29 before?


no,i think u didnt see that before..


----------



## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> But they aren’t.



CXB.


----------



## The Ronin

BAF Chief was in UK and was interested in the Eurofighter. Is this a signal on BAF finally Westernining a part of its inventory?

Bangladesh graduated from a LDC to a developing country. Now the US and many other Western countries are trying to sell it sophisticated weapons.

The Bangladesh-UK and Bangladesh-US strategic dialogue and Italy's deep involvement with the Bangladesh Navy frigate project are signs of our foreign policy shift to cooperate more with Western countries instead of relying on traditional partners such as Russia and China too much. This will provide the military access to better weapons and equipment as well as make defence procurement deals much more competitive. I rather see BAF purchase a refurbished F-16 instead of a J-10 if you know what I mean.

Source- Syed Amar Khan

Thanks for the photos Evan Ahmed Shafi


----------



## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> BAF Chief was in UK and was interested in the Eurofighter. Is this a signal on BAF finally Westernining a part of its inventory?
> 
> Bangladesh graduated from a LDC to a developing country. Now the US and many other Western countries are trying to sell it sophisticated weapons.
> 
> The Bangladesh-UK and Bangladesh-US strategic dialogue and Italy's deep involvement with the Bangladesh Navy frigate project are signs of our foreign policy shift to cooperate more with Western countries instead of relying on traditional partners such as Russia and China too much. This will provide the military access to better weapons and equipment as well as make defence procurement deals much more competitive. I rather see BAF purchase a refurbished F-16 instead of a J-10 if you know what I mean.
> 
> Source- Syed Amar Khan
> 
> Thanks for the photos Evan Ahmed Shafi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 460819



Oh boy....

Pure Fantasy. 

Gripen would be nice though.

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## KAI KAI Baloch

The Ronin said:


> BAF Chief was in UK and was interested in the Eurofighter. Is this a signal on BAF finally Westernining a part of its inventory?
> 
> Bangladesh graduated from a LDC to a developing country. Now the US and many other Western countries are trying to sell it sophisticated weapons.
> 
> The Bangladesh-UK and Bangladesh-US strategic dialogue and Italy's deep involvement with the Bangladesh Navy frigate project are signs of our foreign policy shift to cooperate more with Western countries instead of relying on traditional partners such as Russia and China too much. This will provide the military access to better weapons and equipment as well as make defence procurement deals much more competitive. I rather see BAF purchase a refurbished F-16 instead of a J-10 if you know what I mean.
> 
> Source- Syed Amar Khan
> 
> Thanks for the photos Evan Ahmed Shafi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 460819


BAF chief is a healthy looking guy!

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Oh boy....
> 
> Pure Fantasy.
> 
> Gripen would be nice though.


I will not just trash this report away... I had a gut feeling about it. We may buy few 2nd hand euro fighter from UK. This is the only country which was always with us. All weather friend for sure. I dont know why, but brits like Bengal for some colonial reason.

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## araberuni7

Sayed Amar works for bdmilitary hence the report is a BS. The current BAF chief and his predecessor were incompetent idiots. They are just spending government money to enjoy champagne breakfast and business class travel. The previous BAF chief also visited the UK. That doesn't mean anything. 

Spoiler alert$
There might be selfie of BAF chief standing in front of Trident Ballistic Missile for Idiots at bdmilitary to run propaganda that Bangladesh bought Trident ballistic missile. 
$60 million Sukhoi was too expensive now the rice distributor is talking about $140 million Typhoon.

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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> Sayed Amar works for bdmilitary hence the report is a BS. The current BAF chief and his predecessor were incompetent idiots. They are just spending government money to enjoy champagne breakfast and business class travel. The previous BAF chief also visited the UK. That doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Spoiler alert$
> There might be selfie of BAF chief standing in front of Trident Ballistic Missile for Idiots at bdmilitary to run propaganda that Bangladesh bought Trident ballistic missile.
> $60 million Sukhoi was too expensive now the rice distributor is talking about $140 million Typhoon.


Leaving aside this idiot Amra Khan... how likely UK could help us militarily in this situation? BD can not afford Typhoon.. but UK can afford to help. NO?

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## araberuni7

TopCat said:


> Leaving aside this idiot Amra Khan... how likely UK could help us militarily in this situation? BD can not afford Typhoon.. but UK can afford to help. NO?



Yes UK can help BD a lot from defence and strategic point of view. This conversation has to come from Armed Forces Division chaired by Sheikh Hasina. We don't have political engagement in defence relationship that's why our idiotic military leaders do anything. MRCA was not a blunder if Sheikh Hasina directly negotiated with V Putin.

BTW BAE Systems offered line of credit to Malaysia so does the Saab Defence. This is political level not military level. We can get similar treatment if we engage politically.

Sheikh has a defence advisor who is her relatives but he doesn't seems to know any defence or military matter. We could get lot of excess defense equipment from British Army, RN and RAF. Specially Bangladesh Army's riverine brigade needs better training from Royal Marines. British have funding to train Bangladesh Military. They offer similar training to other countries. Again we don't have political engagement.
Boris Johnson visited Bangladesh but we failed to achieve any strategic benefits. British still supply arms to Myanmar. Hasina should have asked Boris to stop supplying arms to Myanmar. Give you an example: Indian noise in DC stops military aid to Pakistan.
Bangladeshis don't think strategically. We learnt nothing at all from Aung Sung. She recently visited Australia and made sure Myanmar retains training facilities from Australian Army. It's free and Paid by my tax money. It hurts!
Bangladeshi PM never make noise to stop that happening from either Britain or from Australia.

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## Nahid

The Ronin said:


> BAF Chief was in UK and was interested in the Eurofighter. Is this a signal on BAF finally Westernining a part of its inventory?
> 
> Bangladesh graduated from a LDC to a developing country. Now the US and many other Western countries are trying to sell it sophisticated weapons.
> 
> The Bangladesh-UK and Bangladesh-US strategic dialogue and Italy's deep involvement with the Bangladesh Navy frigate project are signs of our foreign policy shift to cooperate more with Western countries instead of relying on traditional partners such as Russia and China too much. This will provide the military access to better weapons and equipment as well as make defence procurement deals much more competitive. I rather see BAF purchase a refurbished F-16 instead of a J-10 if you know what I mean.
> 
> Source- Syed Amar Khan
> 
> Thanks for the photos Evan Ahmed Shafi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 460819


My reaction after reading the sourch name.....(Source- Syed Amar Khan).

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## Avicenna

araberuni7 said:


> Yes UK can help BD a lot from defence and strategic point of view. This conversation has to come from Armed Forces Division chaired by Sheikh Hasina. We don't have political engagement in defence relationship that's why our idiotic military leaders do anything. MRCA was not a blunder if Sheikh Hasina directly negotiated with V Putin.
> 
> BTW BAE Systems offered line of credit to Malaysia so does the Saab Defence. This is political level not military level. We can get similar treatment if we engage politically.
> 
> Sheikh has a defence advisor who is her relatives but he doesn't seems to know any defence or military matter. We could get lot of excess defense equipment from British Army, RN and RAF. Specially Bangladesh Army's riverine brigade needs better training from Royal Marines. British have funding to train Bangladesh Military. They offer similar training to other countries. Again we don't have political engagement.
> Boris Johnson visited Bangladesh but we failed to achieve any strategic benefits. British still supply arms to Myanmar. Hasina should have asked Boris to stop supplying arms to Myanmar. Give you an example: Indian noise in DC stops military aid to Pakistan.
> Bangladeshis don't think strategically. We learnt nothing at all from Aung Sung. She recently visited Australia and made sure Myanmar retains training facilities from Australian Army. It's free and Paid by my tax money. It hurts!
> Bangladeshi PM never make noise to stop that happening from either Britain or from Australia.



Bangladesh is run by nimrods. The witch lady next door has a cool political game. We, not so much.

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## Michael Corleone

KAI KAI Baloch said:


> BAF chief is a healthy looking guy!


Too much healthy in fact. XD



araberuni7 said:


> MRCA was not a blunder if Sheikh Hasina directly negotiated with V Putin.


Hasina doesn’t know jackshit about fighter jets though. People need to grasp the fact that we didn’t have cash lying around to go and buy fighter jets, this wasn’t military officers fault imo, when you go to the shop to buy 10 mangoes and then change your mind at the cashier station and get only one, the seller will have leverage or shall I say, dirty tricks to make you beg for how much mangoes he wants you to buy.

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## araberuni7

Michael Corleone said:


> Too much healthy in fact. XD
> 
> 
> Hasina doesn’t know jackshit about fighter jets though. People need to grasp the fact that we didn’t have cash lying around to go and buy fighter jets, this wasn’t military officers fault imo, when you go to the shop to buy 10 mangoes and then change your mind at the cashier station and get only one, the seller will have leverage or shall I say, dirty tricks to make you beg for how much mangoes he wants you to buy.



Hasina does not need to know about Fighter Jet. This is not her role to know. Her role is to make political influence over military purchase. That's what India, Indonesia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Myanmar, Vietnam, the Philipines and Malaysia do when their PM/President visit USA/Russia/France/UK/China to negotiate directly with prospective supplier's country.

Example: India's Green Pine Radar or S-400 purchase. Sweden's MIM PAC 3 purchase. Indonesia's 28X F-16 EDA or Su-35 and Eqypt's Rafale or MiG deal. I am sure Modi does not know sh$t about S-400 but IAF prepped him, provided all documentation and MoD provided pricing advise then he went to talk to V Putin to buy S-400.

This is what we expect from Hasina and our military leader. It's not about technical details but about political influence.

I am guessing the idoit @The Ronin AKA Sayed Amar post many nonsenses from bdmilitary office then disappear to make sure we swear at BAF's cleaner promoted as Cheif.

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> BAF Chief was in UK and was interested in the Eurofighter. Is this a signal on BAF finally Westernining a part of its inventory?
> 
> Bangladesh graduated from a LDC to a developing country. Now the US and many other Western countries are trying to sell it sophisticated weapons.
> 
> The Bangladesh-UK and Bangladesh-US strategic dialogue and Italy's deep involvement with the Bangladesh Navy frigate project are signs of our foreign policy shift to cooperate more with Western countries instead of relying on traditional partners such as Russia and China too much. This will provide the military access to better weapons and equipment as well as make defence procurement deals much more competitive. I rather see BAF purchase a refurbished F-16 instead of a J-10 if you know what I mean.
> 
> Source- Syed Amar Khan
> 
> Thanks for the photos Evan Ahmed Shafi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 460819


Wow, according to reichmarshall amra khan, we have procured SU-35,SU-30, MIG -35, J-10 and now Typhoon!



Avicenna said:


> Gripen would be nice though.



Gripen is also out of our reach, 16 of them would cost us around $2.5 billion. That sum is unbearable for BD, unless Sweden offers us a long term loan.


----------



## Avicenna

Tanveer666 said:


> Wow, according to reichmarshall amra khan, we have procured SU-35,SU-30, MIG -35, J-10 and now Typhoon!
> 
> 
> 
> Gripen is also out of our reach, 16 of them would cost us around $2.5 billion. That sum is unbearable for BD, unless Sweden offers us a long term loan.



Gripen is THE most affordable Western option and if there was political will and foresight, a very reasonable option.

If Gripen is out of reach, then don't even mention the Typhoon. 

The only option may be the surplus Tranche 1 that exist. But those platforms are limited in capability.

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## bluesky

araberuni7 said:


> I am guessing the idoit @The Ronin AKA Sayed Amar post many nonsenses from bdmilitary office then disappear to make sure we swear at BAF's *cleaner promoted as Cheif.*


Is it real that @Ronin is Syed Amar Khan? In that case will he be promoted as *Chief* of BAF or its *Chef*?


----------



## Major 13625

bluesky said:


> Is it real that @Ronin is Syed Amar Khan? In that case will he be promoted as *Chief* of BAF or its *Chef*?





bluesky said:


> Is it real that @Ronin is Syed Amar Khan? In that case will he be promoted as *Chief* of BAF or its *Chef*?


I am quite sure. sayed amar kahn aka Ronin.

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## Michael Corleone

araberuni7 said:


> Hasina does not need to know about Fighter Jet. This is not her role to know. Her role is to make political influence over military purchase. That's what India, Indonesia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Myanmar, Vietnam, the Philipines and Malaysia do when their PM/President visit USA/Russia/France/UK/China to negotiate directly with prospective supplier's country.
> 
> Example: India's Green Pine Radar or S-400 purchase. Sweden's MIM PAC 3 purchase. Indonesia's 28X F-16 EDA or Su-35 and Eqypt's Rafale or MiG deal. I am sure Modi does not know sh$t about S-400 but IAF prepped him, provided all documentation and MoD provided pricing advise then he went to talk to V Putin to buy S-400.
> 
> This is what we expect from Hasina and our military leader. It's not about technical details but about political influence.
> 
> I am guessing the idoit @The Ronin AKA Sayed Amar post many nonsenses from bdmilitary office then disappear to make sure we swear at BAF's cleaner promoted as Cheif.


Now you’re contradicting yourself about Hasina, that she should have discussed her sales with Putin, how would she if she doesn’t know what she’s talking about!?

Ps. Let’s talk with respect about the chief, the dude is probably more educated and experienced than you or me, we often make fun of his weight and that’s okay but insulting an elderly like that should not be normal. 

Ps. This dude had to built the airforce from ground up, remember that. We didn’t even have pesky missiles, trainers etc thanks to Decline during BNP times.



bluesky said:


> Is it real that @Ronin is Syed Amar Khan? In that case will he be promoted as *Chief* of BAF or its *Chef*?


I can assure you he’s not. Syed came to me asking to find out who Ronin was....

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Really this is........!! how many days is remaining to disclose the MRCA deal of BAF. its frustrating. 


Do not disturb,BAF is sleeping.

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## The Ronin

P.C- Evan Ahmed Shafi

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## araberuni7

Off the shelf Gripen cost $85m 16x $85m =$1.3B aprox. Armaments +training +Giraffe Radar for comms+support +Infrastructure would cost additional $700m. But it is worthwhile. Placing 24 order may give us better deal.
Why Gripen is called Smart Fighter.
Gripen is a multi-role and a swing-role fighter.
One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track targets, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto target’s track through triangulation from several radars or allows one fighter to jam targets while another tracks it, or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to “burn through” jamming transmissions.
Russian and Chinese Fighters dont do that. 

Gripen's engine doesnt bleed energy while an angular maneuver but Russian Engines do bleed energy. 
Plus Meteor AMRAAM which the most advanced AAM currently available in market.
Plus IRIS-T SRAAM, GBU, Storm Shadow and RBS-15. 
Nice dream! 
I still believe BAF chief is an idiotic A hole.

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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> Off the shelf Gripen cost $85m 16x $85m =$1.3B aprox. Armaments +training +Giraffe Radar for comms+support +Infrastructure would cost additional $700m. But it is worthwhile. Placing 24 order may give us better deal.
> Why Gripen is called Smart Fighter.
> Gripen is a multi-role and a swing-role fighter.
> One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track targets, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto target’s track through triangulation from several radars or allows one fighter to jam targets while another tracks it, or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to “burn through” jamming transmissions.
> Russian and Chinese Fighters dont do that.
> 
> Gripen's engine doesnt bleed energy while an angular maneuver but Russian Engines do bleed energy.
> Plus Meteor AMRAAM which the most advanced AAM currently available in market.
> Plus IRIS-T SRAAM, GBU, Storm Shadow and RBS-15.
> Nice dream!
> I still believe BAF chief is an idiotic A hole.


Gripen is a great fighter, even can kill 4 SU-30 in one shot.. yet it does not provided deterrence. We need more in deterrence than actual fighting capability. Buying a fighter from a nuclear armed nation itself is a big deterrence which implies political alignment.

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## araberuni7

TopCat said:


> Gripen is a great fighter, even can kill 4 SU-30 in one shot.. yet it does not provided deterrence. We need more in deterrence than actual fighting capability. Buying a fighter from a nuclear armed nation itself is a big deterrence which implies political alignment.



That's a good point indeed. However none of us are running the organisation. Its been run by a fatty. 
BTW RTAF bought 12 Gripen C/D. RTAF Gripen C slaughtered J-11 in Chinese multinational exercise. Having Gripen E will put high pressure on MAF.

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## Dot

J-11 vs Gripen C 
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion....-first-strike-falcon-joint-military-exercise/

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## bluesky

TopCat said:


> Buying a fighter from a nuclear armed nation itself is a *big deterrence which implies political alignmen*t.


What big deterrence you are talking about? Did not Russia and China vetoed against Bd on Rohingya issue, although we are purchasing $12 billion worth of nuclear power stations from Russia and have purchased many sq. of Chinese fighter planes? They sell their technology only for commercial purpose and certainly do not seek any political alignment with a small, weak and non-important nation called Bangladesh. We have to understand our position vis-a-vis global politics.

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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> What big deterrence you are talking about? Did not Russia and China vetoed against Bd on Rohingya issue, although we are purchasing $12 billion worth of nuclear power stations from Russia and have purchased many sq. of Chinese fighter planes? They sell their technology only for commercial purpose and certainly do not seek any political alignment with a small, weak and non-important nation called Bangladesh. We have to understand our position vis-a-vis global politics.


We need to buy one of our major line of fighter from western nations. I prefer UK.
As long as you act like a meek and weak, you will be treated like meek and weak.

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## Avicenna

I really think Bangladesh needs REAL capability first. The Gripen will theoretically provide that in spades.

The political "deterence" factor is real. However, China is unlikely to support BD vis a vis Myanmar. They have their own interests it seems. The Russians are money whores.

Given all considerations, I truely believe Bangladesh's interests lie with the West. 

Bangladesh is not some pariah state. Its a responsible member of the world community. The UN involvement alone gives it some geopolitical capital.

I say foster closer relations with the West, i.e. post Brexit UK. BUY THE GRIPEN.

This is truely a fork in the road in regards to the BAF. 

BE BOLD AND BUY THE GRIPEN!

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## Major 13625

AFAIK a 17 member delegation team from BAF will visit Russia on march 27! And they will sign MRCA deal. Is it true?

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## TopCat

Major 13625 said:


> AFAIK a 17 member delegation team from BAF will visit Russia on march 27! And they will sign MRCA deal. Is it true?


No... if it was about tender then the deal should be signed in Dhaka. No need to go to Russia.


----------



## Michael Corleone

araberuni7 said:


> Off the shelf Gripen cost $85m 16x $85m =$1.3B aprox. Armaments +training +Giraffe Radar for comms+support +Infrastructure would cost additional $700m. But it is worthwhile. Placing 24 order may give us better deal.
> Why Gripen is called Smart Fighter.
> Gripen is a multi-role and a swing-role fighter.
> One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track targets, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto target’s track through triangulation from several radars or allows one fighter to jam targets while another tracks it, or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to “burn through” jamming transmissions.
> Russian and Chinese Fighters dont do that.
> 
> Gripen's engine doesnt bleed energy while an angular maneuver but Russian Engines do bleed energy.
> Plus Meteor AMRAAM which the most advanced AAM currently available in market.
> Plus IRIS-T SRAAM, GBU, Storm Shadow and RBS-15.
> Nice dream!
> I still believe BAF chief is an idiotic A hole.


How do you reckon we get clearance of the engine spares and missiles from US!?


----------



## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> How do you reckon we get clearance of the engine spares and missiles from US!?



That’s a great question. At least attempt it. Political lobby. Plus this Trump administration is eager to sell.


----------



## Nike

Avicenna said:


> I really think Bangladesh needs REAL capability first. The Gripen will theoretically provide that in spades.
> 
> The political "deterence" factor is real. However, China is unlikely to support BD vis a vis Myanmar. They have their own interests it seems. The Russians are money whores.
> 
> Given all considerations, I truely believe Bangladesh's interests lie with the West.
> 
> Bangladesh is not some pariah state. Its a responsible member of the world community. The UN involvement alone gives it some geopolitical capital.
> 
> I say foster closer relations with the West, i.e. post Brexit UK. BUY THE GRIPEN.
> 
> This is truely a fork in the road in regards to the BAF.
> 
> BE BOLD AND BUY THE GRIPEN!



Don't think Grippen is the best choice for Bangladesh. First, Sweden track record to always put human Rights issue for their arms transfer, recent case against Saudi Arabia is a good examples. Second, there is a need for many supplier from many countries to supply parts and tech for a single Grippen to be built well itself will cause logistic issue if you handle it carelessly albeit Saab will handle the management, just like Thailand got several parts needed for maintenance routine delayed several times and causing drop in operational readiness. Third Grippen is not all that great in raw Comparative performance , compared to other fighter out there like Su 35, F16 block 72, Eurofighter, Rafale. They said their cutting edge is in network centric performance and environment, like hell as the other fighter built after dessert storm era don't have network centric capability built in mind.

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## araberuni7

Michael Corleone said:


> How do you reckon we get clearance of the engine spares and missiles from US!?



That's a high point indeed. America cleared the sale of Engines to Thailand during the time of the military coup. Besides Gripen's engines are licensed produced in Sweden by Volvo. Saab Defence has a reasonably excellent reputation with the American. This is not an issue at all. Unlike the Russian and the Chinese, Saab has an excellent after sales support record.

We worry too much about America, but in fact, America and EU are saving our *** from Myanmar.

For missiles, we use MBDA and Denel Dynamics. Also, Sweden can supply stockpiles of missiles and bombs to Bangladesh. They have done it. In fact, European countries these days do not pay much attention as long as you pay them they are happy. The UK has supplied a large number of missiles from their inventory to Saudi Arabia. We can source weapons from the UK as well. Often Sweden supply Armament with the fighter jets.
Look at the IAF Su-30MKI. Russian screwed IAF on after sales support. I doubt half the Su-30MKI would be operational. The Chinese are a bit better, but they have the same issue.
BTW Gripen E/F uses COTS for the software and electronics. These are not proprietary software. Giraffe AMB is Sweden's IP so no need to ask for permission from anybody. RBS-15 is also Saab's IP.
I know it's costly exercise but if BAF buys Gripen, then it will send a message to MAF and fear God in their heart that 16 Gripen E supported by Saab GlobalEye or Airbus AEWC can kill 31 MiG, 6 Su-30 and 12 Junk Fighter in any day or night in any weather.



madokafc said:


> Don't think Grippen is the best choice for Bangladesh. First, Sweden track record to always put human Rights issue for their arms transfer, recent case against Saudi Arabia is a good examples. Second, there is a need for many supplier from many countries to supply parts and tech for a single Grippen to be built well itself will cause logistic issue if you handle it carelessly albeit Saab will handle the management, just like Thailand got several parts needed for maintenance routine delayed several times and causing drop in operational readiness. Third Grippen is not all that great in raw Comparative performance , compared to other fighter out there like Su 35, F16 block 72, Eurofighter, Rafale. They said their cutting edge is in network centric performance and environment, like hell as the other fighter built after dessert storm era don't have network centric capability built in mind.



Woow that's a statement from someone who is not aware of recent development. Please read IAF study on Gripen E vs F-16 Block 70 (F-16V). IAF team of expert concluded that Gripen E is not only superior to F-16 Block 70 but also advanced in many ways to F/A-18 Super Hornet E/F. BVR rating of Gripen E is higher than any Russian and Chinese Fighter jet including so called Su-30MKI which is parked in their garage. This is not me saying this is an independent study by IAF.

Gripen C beat J-11A which is Su-30MKK. The Chinese pilot gobsmacked when they saw Gripen C roaring ahead of twin engines J-11A. Su-30MKK or J-11A was not a close match to C variant of Gripen. Think what E variant of Gripen would do.
*
Operational Environment*
The one superior advantage of the Gripen is its ability to take off, fully loaded, from a runway only 2,800′ long and land in as little as 2,600′. This was a design requirement from the beginning, believing that the Swedish Air Force would have to improvise after a first strike attack against its air bases and thus force the Air Force to fly from unimproved highways and small commuter airports. This has to be an appealing feature for all its current export country customers.

The Gripen can be tasked with air dominance and area denial role, the Gripen can also perform naval denial helping to protect territorial sovereignty. Gripen is not just a multirole but a swing role meaning it can switch operational role in flight.

One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track targets, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto targets track through triangulation from several radars or allows one fighter to jam targets while another tracks it, or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to “burn through” jamming transmissions.
*Comparing with other Aircraft*

The Gripen is now an 18 years old platform with excellent factory support. Probably on par with a Boeing F/A-18E/F super hornet model or F-15E Strike Eagle. The F-15E, Strike Eagle Model, has a full suite of electronics which earlier models did not have while the JAS39 E/F models already do.

The Gripen would over-match against advanced Chinese built J-10C and J-16 in addition to PLAAF Su-35.

The Gripen has a tighter turning radius and does not bleed off energy as quickly and thus has a speed advantage in air combat manoeuvring (ACM) against the Su-30.







V Putin and Xi can't match it.

Those who are spectics of Gripen E. Please read this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ipen-F-35-competitor-takes-maiden-flight.html

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## Avicenna

araberuni7 said:


> That's a high point indeed. America cleared the sale of Engines to Thailand during the time of the military coup. Besides Gripen's engines are licensed produced in Sweden by Volvo. Saab Defence has a reasonably excellent reputation with the American. This is not an issue at all. Unlike the Russian and the Chinese, Saab has an excellent after sales support record.
> 
> We worry too much about America, but in fact, America and EU are saving our *** from Myanmar.
> 
> For missiles, we use MBDA and Denel Dynamics. Also, Sweden can supply stockpiles of missiles and bombs to Bangladesh. They have done it. In fact, European countries these days do not pay much attention as long as you pay them they are happy. The UK has supplied a large number of missiles from their inventory to Saudi Arabia. We can source weapons from the UK as well. Often Sweden supply Armament with the fighter jets.
> Look at the IAF Su-30MKI. Russian screwed IAF on after sales support. I doubt half the Su-30MKI would be operational. The Chinese are a bit better, but they have the same issue.
> BTW Gripen E/F uses COTS for the software and electronics. These are not proprietary software. Giraffe AMB is Sweden's IP so no need to ask for permission from anybody. RBS-15 is also Saab's IP.
> I know it's costly exercise but if BAF buys Gripen, then it will send a message to MAF and fear God in their heart that 16 Gripen E supported by Saab GlobalEye or Airbus AEWC can kill 31 MiG, 6 Su-30 and 12 Junk Fighter in any day or night in any weather.
> 
> 
> 
> Woow that's a statement from someone who is not aware of recent development. Please read IAF study on Gripen E vs F-16 Block 70 (F-16V). IAF team of expert concluded that Gripen E is not only superior to F-16 Block 70 but also advanced in many ways to F/A-18 Super Hornet E/F. BVR rating of Gripen E is higher than any Russian and Chinese Fighter jet including so called Su-30MKI which is parked in their garage. This is not me saying this is an independent study by IAF.
> 
> Gripen C beat J-11A which is Su-30MKK. The Chinese pilot gobsmacked when they saw Gripen C roaring ahead of twin engines J-11A. Su-30MKK or J-11A was not a close match to C variant of Gripen. Think what E variant of Gripen would do.
> *
> Operational Environment*
> The one superior advantage of the Gripen is its ability to take off, fully loaded, from a runway only 2,800′ long and land in as little as 2,600′. This was a design requirement from the beginning, believing that the Swedish Air Force would have to improvise after a first strike attack against its air bases and thus force the Air Force to fly from unimproved highways and small commuter airports. This has to be an appealing feature for all its current export country customers.
> 
> The Gripen can be tasked with air dominance and area denial role, the Gripen can also perform naval denial helping to protect territorial sovereignty. Gripen is not just a multirole but a swing role meaning it can switch operational role in flight.
> 
> One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track targets, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto targets track through triangulation from several radars or allows one fighter to jam targets while another tracks it, or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to “burn through” jamming transmissions.
> *Comparing with other Aircraft*
> 
> The Gripen is now an 18 years old platform with excellent factory support. Probably on par with a Boeing F/A-18E/F super hornet model or F-15E Strike Eagle. The F-15E, Strike Eagle Model, has a full suite of electronics which earlier models did not have while the JAS39 E/F models already do.
> 
> The Gripen would over-match against advanced Chinese built J-10C and J-16 in addition to PLAAF Su-35.
> 
> The Gripen has a tighter turning radius and does not bleed off energy as quickly and thus has a speed advantage in air combat manoeuvring (ACM) against the Su-30.
> 
> View attachment 461187
> 
> 
> V Putin and Xi can't match it.
> 
> Those who are spectics of Gripen E. Please read this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ipen-F-35-competitor-takes-maiden-flight.html



A very excellent post!

"I know it's costly exercise but if BAF buys Gripen, then it will send a message to MAF and fear God in their heart that 16 Gripen E supported by Saab GlobalEye or Airbus AEWC can kill 31 MiG, 6 Su-30 and 12 Junk Fighter in any day or night in any weather."

Exactly the point I wanted to make.


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## Nike

araberuni7 said:


> That's a high point indeed. America cleared the sale of Engines to Thailand during the time of the military coup. Besides Gripen's engines are licensed produced in Sweden by Volvo. Saab Defence has a reasonably excellent reputation with the American. This is not an issue at all. Unlike the Russian and the Chinese, Saab has an excellent after sales support record.
> 
> We worry too much about America, but in fact, America and EU are saving our *** from Myanmar.
> 
> For missiles, we use MBDA and Denel Dynamics. Also, Sweden can supply stockpiles of missiles and bombs to Bangladesh. They have done it. In fact, European countries these days do not pay much attention as long as you pay them they are happy. The UK has supplied a large number of missiles from their inventory to Saudi Arabia. We can source weapons from the UK as well. Often Sweden supply Armament with the fighter jets.
> Look at the IAF Su-30MKI. Russian screwed IAF on after sales support. I doubt half the Su-30MKI would be operational. The Chinese are a bit better, but they have the same issue.
> BTW Gripen E/F uses COTS for the software and electronics. These are not proprietary software. Giraffe AMB is Sweden's IP so no need to ask for permission from anybody. RBS-15 is also Saab's IP.
> I know it's costly exercise but if BAF buys Gripen, then it will send a message to MAF and fear God in their heart that 16 Gripen E supported by Saab GlobalEye or Airbus AEWC can kill 31 MiG, 6 Su-30 and 12 Junk Fighter in any day or night in any weather.
> 
> 
> 
> Woow that's a statement from someone who is not aware of recent development. Please read IAF study on Gripen E vs F-16 Block 70 (F-16V). IAF team of expert concluded that Gripen E is not only superior to F-16 Block 70 but also advanced in many ways to F/A-18 Super Hornet E/F. BVR rating of Gripen E is higher than any Russian and Chinese Fighter jet including so called Su-30MKI which is parked in their garage. This is not me saying this is an independent study by IAF.
> 
> Gripen C beat J-11A which is Su-30MKK. The Chinese pilot gobsmacked when they saw Gripen C roaring ahead of twin engines J-11A. Su-30MKK or J-11A was not a close match to C variant of Gripen. Think what E variant of Gripen would do.
> *
> Operational Environment*
> The one superior advantage of the Gripen is its ability to take off, fully loaded, from a runway only 2,800′ long and land in as little as 2,600′. This was a design requirement from the beginning, believing that the Swedish Air Force would have to improvise after a first strike attack against its air bases and thus force the Air Force to fly from unimproved highways and small commuter airports. This has to be an appealing feature for all its current export country customers.
> 
> The Gripen can be tasked with air dominance and area denial role, the Gripen can also perform naval denial helping to protect territorial sovereignty. Gripen is not just a multirole but a swing role meaning it can switch operational role in flight.
> 
> One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track targets, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto targets track through triangulation from several radars or allows one fighter to jam targets while another tracks it, or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to “burn through” jamming transmissions.
> *Comparing with other Aircraft*
> 
> The Gripen is now an 18 years old platform with excellent factory support. Probably on par with a Boeing F/A-18E/F super hornet model or F-15E Strike Eagle. The F-15E, Strike Eagle Model, has a full suite of electronics which earlier models did not have while the JAS39 E/F models already do.
> 
> The Gripen would over-match against advanced Chinese built J-10C and J-16 in addition to PLAAF Su-35.
> 
> The Gripen has a tighter turning radius and does not bleed off energy as quickly and thus has a speed advantage in air combat manoeuvring (ACM) against the Su-30.
> 
> View attachment 461187
> 
> 
> V Putin and Xi can't match it.
> 
> Those who are spectics of Gripen E. Please read this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ipen-F-35-competitor-takes-maiden-flight.html



Meh, there is many hidden additional cost factor when operating Grippen hence there is less countries interested on Grippen compared with F 16 or even Flanker. 

The same IAF expert who ditch Grippen E offer from SAAB and instead chose Rafale and adding more Su 30 MKI in recent procurement program, sure that says alot about Grippen Mighty in paper sheet and mock training against earlier model of J 11 (in which rip off of Flanker). Not to say Indonesia choice of Flanker E / Su 35 over Grippen E because they are short legged and must carry additional fuel tanks. Beside Brazil, there is not much country picking Grippen E seriously (if not US spy cases Brazil surely will deal for F/A 18).

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## Avicenna

madokafc said:


> Meh, there is many hidden additional cost factor when operating Grippen hence there is less countries interested on Grippen compared with F 16 or even Flanker.
> 
> The same IAF expert who ditch Grippen E offer from SAAB and instead chose Rafale and adding more Su 30 MKI in recent procurement program, sure that says alot about Grippen Mighty in paper sheet and mock training against earlier model of J 11 (in which rip off of Flanker). Not to say Indonesia choice of Flanker E / Su 35 over Grippen E because they are short legged and must carry additional fuel tanks. Beside Brazil, there is not much country picking Grippen E seriously (if not US spy cases Brazil surely will deal for F/A 18).



Quite simply, if its good enough for Sweden, its good enough for Bangladesh.

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## bluesky

TopCat said:


> We need to buy one of our major line of fighter from western nations. I prefer UK.
> As long as you *act like a meek and weak, you will be treated like meek and weak*.


Remind you, however a cat roars, it is not treated as a tiger. BD is nothing in the world politics, however boldly we try to project ourselves. Buy UK is ok, though!! But, I do not expect any political alignment out of this purchase.

New generation British guys are a breed so different from the time of Robert Clive. This generation regret many other actions taken by their old-time national heroes in different parts of the globe. This may the reason why Britain is a little sympathetic to BD. I think, it will work in our favor in times of an imposed war even if we do not buy their jets. They know, we are very poor and weak.

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## Bilal9

I wanted to mention that we finally gave some honor to our flying-ace Group Captain (Ret'd) Saiful Azam Shaheb. Gladdens the heart that he received some recognition from the country of his birth after many many years....this was at the RAOWA convention center marking the organizations' 36th anniversary.

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## araberuni7

madokafc said:


> Meh, there is many hidden additional cost factor when operating Grippen hence there is less countries interested on Grippen compared with F 16 or even Flanker.
> 
> The same IAF expert who ditch Grippen E offer from SAAB and instead chose Rafale and adding more Su 30 MKI in recent procurement program, sure that says alot about Grippen Mighty in paper sheet and mock training against earlier model of J 11 (in which rip off of Flanker). Not to say Indonesia choice of Flanker E / Su 35 over Grippen E because they are short legged and must carry additional fuel tanks. Beside Brazil, there is not much country picking Grippen E seriously (if not US spy cases Brazil surely will deal for F/A 18).



Truth is brutal sometimes. The main reason Indonesia choose to buy Su-35 because the Russian is willing to accept *palm oil and coffee as a currency*. 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ade-palm-coffee-for-sukhoi-jets-idUSKBN1AM05X

Sweden does not accept palm oil or coffee as currency. But Sweden offers Line of Credit to Brazil and Malaysia. Maybe Bangladesh will get LoC if we approach Saab. 

AFAIK, IAF is ditching Su-57 as well in favor of F-35. IAF will add 324 Tejas than Su-30MKI. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...k-2-jet-is-delivered/articleshow/63306776.cms

IAF had enough of Su-30MKI hence they will order more western fighter jet. 36 more Rafale. Just keep on eye IAF. 

The main reason IAF choose Rafale over Gripen because Rafale can carry Nuke Gripen doesn't. Rafale is perfect fit for India's nuclear posture. France also promises to fix Kaveri engine and Uttam Radar which has been in development for years. 

I get frustrated when people post nonsense without reading the actual analysis. But I don't expect everyone to be analytical and problem solver either.

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## Michael Corleone

araberuni7 said:


> That's a high point indeed. America cleared the sale of Engines to Thailand during the time of the military coup. Besides Gripen's engines are licensed produced in Sweden by Volvo. Saab Defence has a reasonably excellent reputation with the American. This is not an issue at all. Unlike the Russian and the Chinese, Saab has an excellent after sales support record.
> 
> We worry too much about America, but in fact, America and EU are saving our *** from Myanmar.
> 
> For missiles, we use MBDA and Denel Dynamics. Also, Sweden can supply stockpiles of missiles and bombs to Bangladesh. They have done it. In fact, European countries these days do not pay much attention as long as you pay them they are happy. The UK has supplied a large number of missiles from their inventory to Saudi Arabia. We can source weapons from the UK as well. Often Sweden supply Armament with the fighter jets.
> Look at the IAF Su-30MKI. Russian screwed IAF on after sales support. I doubt half the Su-30MKI would be operational. The Chinese are a bit better, but they have the same issue.
> BTW Gripen E/F uses COTS for the software and electronics. These are not proprietary software. Giraffe AMB is Sweden's IP so no need to ask for permission from anybody. RBS-15 is also Saab's IP.
> I know it's costly exercise but if BAF buys Gripen, then it will send a message to MAF and fear God in their heart that 16 Gripen E supported by Saab GlobalEye or Airbus AEWC can kill 31 MiG, 6 Su-30 and 12 Junk Fighter in any day or night in any weather.
> 
> 
> 
> Woow that's a statement from someone who is not aware of recent development. Please read IAF study on Gripen E vs F-16 Block 70 (F-16V). IAF team of expert concluded that Gripen E is not only superior to F-16 Block 70 but also advanced in many ways to F/A-18 Super Hornet E/F. BVR rating of Gripen E is higher than any Russian and Chinese Fighter jet including so called Su-30MKI which is parked in their garage. This is not me saying this is an independent study by IAF.
> 
> Gripen C beat J-11A which is Su-30MKK. The Chinese pilot gobsmacked when they saw Gripen C roaring ahead of twin engines J-11A. Su-30MKK or J-11A was not a close match to C variant of Gripen. Think what E variant of Gripen would do.
> *
> Operational Environment*
> The one superior advantage of the Gripen is its ability to take off, fully loaded, from a runway only 2,800′ long and land in as little as 2,600′. This was a design requirement from the beginning, believing that the Swedish Air Force would have to improvise after a first strike attack against its air bases and thus force the Air Force to fly from unimproved highways and small commuter airports. This has to be an appealing feature for all its current export country customers.
> 
> The Gripen can be tasked with air dominance and area denial role, the Gripen can also perform naval denial helping to protect territorial sovereignty. Gripen is not just a multirole but a swing role meaning it can switch operational role in flight.
> 
> One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track targets, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto targets track through triangulation from several radars or allows one fighter to jam targets while another tracks it, or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to “burn through” jamming transmissions.
> *Comparing with other Aircraft*
> 
> The Gripen is now an 18 years old platform with excellent factory support. Probably on par with a Boeing F/A-18E/F super hornet model or F-15E Strike Eagle. The F-15E, Strike Eagle Model, has a full suite of electronics which earlier models did not have while the JAS39 E/F models already do.
> 
> The Gripen would over-match against advanced Chinese built J-10C and J-16 in addition to PLAAF Su-35.
> 
> The Gripen has a tighter turning radius and does not bleed off energy as quickly and thus has a speed advantage in air combat manoeuvring (ACM) against the Su-30.
> 
> View attachment 461187
> 
> 
> V Putin and Xi can't match it.
> 
> Those who are spectics of Gripen E. Please read this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ipen-F-35-competitor-takes-maiden-flight.html


See ignorance we can buy em, great but liscenced produced technology has to be cleared by America to sell to a third party. That includes, radar, engines, missiles etc



Avicenna said:


> That’s a great question. At least attempt it. Political lobby. Plus this Trump administration is eager to sell.


Yep. If bd has a chance, this is it.

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## araberuni7

Michael Corleone said:


> See ignorance we can buy em, great but liscenced produced technology has to be cleared by America to sell to a third party. That includes, radar, engines, missiles etc
> 
> 
> Yep. If bd has a chance, this is it.



Yes agreed on engine. 
Radar and Missile do not need to be cleared by America. Raven radar and missiles are EU origin.

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## Avicenna

araberuni7 said:


> Yes agreed on engine.
> Radar and Missile do not need to be cleared by America. Raven radar and missiles are EU origin.



Trump is ready to sell. All that’s needed is some effective political lobbying in Washington.

Bangladesh should hire a PR firm or something. 

Learn from other countries how they get their interests looked after by lobbying in Washington.

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## Michael Corleone

araberuni7 said:


> Yes agreed on engine.
> Radar and Missile do not need to be cleared by America. Raven radar and missiles are EU origin.


Ah cool, read up some new stuff I thought they were still using AARAAM and sidewinders


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## ghost250



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## Avicenna

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 461238



Nice camo on the C-130.


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## Michael Corleone

madokafc said:


> Meh, there is many hidden additional cost factor when operating Grippen hence there is less countries interested on Grippen compared with F 16 or even Flanker.
> 
> The same IAF expert who ditch Grippen E offer from SAAB and instead chose Rafale and adding more Su 30 MKI in recent procurement program, sure that says alot about Grippen Mighty in paper sheet and mock training against earlier model of J 11 (in which rip off of Flanker). Not to say Indonesia choice of Flanker E / Su 35 over Grippen E because they are short legged and must carry additional fuel tanks. Beside Brazil, there is not much country picking Grippen E seriously (if not US spy cases Brazil surely will deal for F/A 18).


what hidden cost are you mentioning about!?



Bilal9 said:


> I wanted to mention that we finally gave some honor to our flying-ace Group Captain (Ret'd) Saiful Azam Shaheb. Gladdens the heart that he received some recognition from the country of his birth after many many years....this was at the RAOWA convention center marking the organizations' 36th anniversary.


He passed away right


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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> He passed away right



No no - I believe Saiful Azam saheb still lives in Dhaka Cantt. DOHS area with his relatives. Along with the other famous Bengali flying ACE M.M. Alam (who was born in Chittagong and passed away in Pakistan in 2013 and is interred at Masroor AB), he was the recipient of Sitara-e-Jurat. According to the PAF, he scored more kills than any other pilots against the Israeli AF flying for the Jordanian AF. He was decorated with Jordan’s Order of Independence medal as well.

More here,
http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/08/21/have-jet-will-travel-the-amazing-story-of-saiful-azam/

You don't hear from him much nowadays because he was a BNP supporter/politician back in the day and also because his health is really frail.

Our former president Ziaur Rahman, who was a commissioned military officer by career, was also decorated for gallantry and won the distinguished and prestigious Hilal-e-Jurat medal. Zia served in the Khemkaran sector in Punjab as the commander of a Pakistani company unit of about 500 soldiers, which was the scene of the most intense tank battle between Indian and Pakistani armies.

The Pakistani government awarded Zia's unit with the highest numbers of gallantry awards for heroic performances during the war. Zia's unit won 2 Sitara-e-Jurat medals and 9 Tamgha-e-Jurat medals from the Army for their brave roles in the 1965 War with India.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bilal9 said:


> No no - I believe Saiful Azam saheb still lives in Dhaka Cantt. DOHS area with his relatives. *Along with the other famous Bengali flying ACE M.M. Alam *(who was born in Chittagong and passed away in Pakistan in 2013 and is interred at Masroor AB), he was the recipient of Sitara-e-Jurat. According to the PAF, he scored more kills than any other pilots against the Israeli AF flying for the Jordanian AF. He was decorated with Jordan’s Order of Independence medal as well.
> 
> More here,
> http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/08/21/have-jet-will-travel-the-amazing-story-of-saiful-azam/
> 
> You don't hear from him much nowadays because he was a BNP supporter/politician back in the day and also because his health is really frail.
> 
> Our former president Ziaur Rahman, who was a commissioned military officer by career, was also decorated for gallantry and won the distinguished and prestigious Hilal-e-Jurat medal. Zia served in the Khemkaran sector in Punjab as the commander of a Pakistani company unit of about 500 soldiers, which was the scene of the most intense tank battle between Indian and Pakistani armies.
> 
> The Pakistani government awarded Zia's unit with the highest numbers of gallantry awards for heroic performances during the war. Zia's unit won 2 Sitara-e-Jurat medals and 9 Tamgha-e-Jurat medals from the Army for their brave roles in the 1965 War with India.


MM Alam wasnt a bengali but a Bihari.


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=812249228951989

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## KapitaanAli

Gripen E is great on paper and perfect for BAF.
But Saab is best at making brochures and not planes, so never induct them without trials. Let Brazil do it first.


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## araberuni7

Again nonsense. As I said only Bahrain paid for the C-130. No money no honey. This idiot's are trolling...


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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> Again nonsense. As I said only Bahrain paid for the C-130. No money no honey. This idiot's are trolling...


Plane spotters are very accurate in their information. They are mostly from dhaka airport. They have a lot of information in their disposal. I hardly seen them b$hitting.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> No no - I believe Saiful Azam saheb still lives in Dhaka Cantt. DOHS area with his relatives. Along with the other famous Bengali flying ACE M.M. Alam (who was born in Chittagong and passed away in Pakistan in 2013 and is interred at Masroor AB), he was the recipient of Sitara-e-Jurat. According to the PAF, he scored more kills than any other pilots against the Israeli AF flying for the Jordanian AF. He was decorated with Jordan’s Order of Independence medal as well.
> 
> More here,
> http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/08/21/have-jet-will-travel-the-amazing-story-of-saiful-azam/
> 
> You don't hear from him much nowadays because he was a BNP supporter/politician back in the day and also because his health is really frail.
> 
> Our former president Ziaur Rahman, who was a commissioned military officer by career, was also decorated for gallantry and won the distinguished and prestigious Hilal-e-Jurat medal. Zia served in the Khemkaran sector in Punjab as the commander of a Pakistani company unit of about 500 soldiers, which was the scene of the most intense tank battle between Indian and Pakistani armies.
> 
> The Pakistani government awarded Zia's unit with the highest numbers of gallantry awards for heroic performances during the war. Zia's unit won 2 Sitara-e-Jurat medals and 9 Tamgha-e-Jurat medals from the Army for their brave roles in the 1965 War with India.


Well thank god if he’s still alive, seen a post in Facebook a couple of months back that he got sick and then passed away.

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## Tanveer666

KapitaanAli said:


> Gripen E is great on paper and perfect for BAF.
> But Saab is best at making brochures and not planes, so never induct them without trials. Let Brazil do it first.


isn't india also considering gripen for their single engine MRCA tender?


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## KapitaanAli

Tanveer666 said:


> isn't india also considering gripen for their single engine MRCA tender?



There's no more SEF tender. It was killed due to pressure and a new tender that includes both SE and TE is in the works, which should ideally be won by Rafale, again.

Very unlikely that F16 or Gripen would win it since IAF will choose on merit.
Very unlikely that F16 or Gripen would be made to win by MoD since Tejas Mk2 is now more or less confirmed.

For all this talk about Gripen E, you won't see FOC before 2025.
Why bother!


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## Tanveer666

KapitaanAli said:


> There's no more SEF tender. It was killed due to pressure and a new tender that includes both SE and TE is in the works, which should ideally be won by Rafale, again.
> 
> Very unlikely that F16 or Gripen would win it since IAF will choose on merit.
> Very unlikely that F16 or Gripen would be made to win by MoD since Tejas Mk2 is now more or less confirmed.



is the new tender called AMCA? and why go through the time consuming procerss of publishing a new tender, evaluating the bid and such? why not just directly order all of the rafale's via a G2G deal (like the 36 rafale order).


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## KapitaanAli

Tanveer666 said:


> is the new tender called AMCA? and why go through the time consuming procerss of publishing a new tender, evaluating the bid and such? why not just directly order all of the rafale's via a G2G deal (like the 36 rafale order).


AMCA is 5th gen and a domestic project of which the TD construction process has now started. There's no name for new tender yet, but it's basically MMRCA V2.0.

The govt probably wants to make sure there are no more accusations. They've done enough nonsense by bringing up SEF tender out of nowhere and trying to give it to friends which would've killed Mk2. Add to that the accusations on Rafale deal.

So, by the book this time. Probably just a formality. France wanting to announce 36 more Rafale when Macron visited hints at the same. GoI didn't announce to avoid jumping the gun.

Let's go back to BAF.

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Well thank god if he’s still alive, seen a post in Facebook a couple of months back that he got sick and then passed away.



He is barely around, hanging by a thread. Good that we decorated him for our satisfaction.


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## UKBengali

KapitaanAli said:


> There's no more SEF tender. It was killed due to pressure and a new tender that includes both SE and TE is in the works, which should ideally be won by Rafale, again.
> 
> Very unlikely that F16 or Gripen would win it since IAF will choose on merit.
> Very unlikely that F16 or Gripen would be made to win by MoD since Tejas Mk2 is now more or less confirmed.
> 
> For all this talk about Gripen E, you won't see FOC before 2025.
> Why bother!



Gripen E is perfect for BD as it will be much better than all Myanmar air-force fighters bar the SU-30SME. It is also Western and so can be used freely against Myanmar. 
It also is cheap enough as per total "life-cycle" costs that it is affordable for BAF. Rafale is too expensive for BD.
If BAF has to wait a little while to get it, then so be it.

@Avicenna

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## Tanveer666

That being said,


UKBengali said:


> Gripen E is perfect for BD as it will be much better than all Myanmar air-force fighters bar the SU-30SME. It is also Western and so can be used freely against Myanmar.
> It also is cheap enough as per total "life-cycle" costs that it is affordable for BAF. Rafale is too expensive for BD.
> If BAF has to wait a little while to get it, then so be it.
> 
> @Avicenna



lifecycle cost maybe cheaper, but the unit cost of gripen NGs are still expensive. Brazil bought 36 of them at $160 mil a piece (the figure includes 25 years of maintenance cost (?) and weaponry) BD doesn't have that sort of cash lying around, unless the swede's offer us a loan. 

However,for this price($5.8B), we could get easily 24-28 SU-35's (+weapons+ToT) if we really wanted to.


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## UKBengali

Tanveer666 said:


> That being said,
> 
> 
> lifecycle cost maybe cheaper, but the unit cost of gripen NGs are still expensive. Brazil bought 36 of them at $160 mil a piece (the figure includes 25 years of maintenance cost (?) and weaponry) BD doesn't have that sort of cash lying around, unless the swede's offer us a loan.
> 
> However,for this price($5.8B), we could get easily 24-28 SU-35's (+weapons+ToT) if we really wanted to.



Err BD does for 16 Gripen E that will not need to be paid for immediately. If a contract is signed now do not expect first deliveries till 2021. BD will pay around 2 billion US dollars over 5 years. This is just 400 million dollars a year for a country that found 1 billion US dollars a year from 2014 to build Padma Bridge.

BD has a 273 billion US dollar economy growing at more than 7% a year.

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## Avicenna

Gripen is a REAL possibility for BAF. I don't know who the hell makes procurement decisions?

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Gripen is a REAL possibility for BAF. I don't know who the hell makes procurement decisions?


Not really if the j-10 procurement information/ pilot training in China is anything real. 

One squadron worth of pilots had finished training back in December and another began in January.


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## araberuni7

KapitaanAli said:


> Gripen E is great on paper and perfect for BAF.
> But Saab is best at making brochures and not planes, so never induct them without trials. Let Brazil do it first.



After having 31+ squadrons of fighter jet, Indian always worried that Bangladesh may induct an advanced fighter jet. Indian made Tejas took 30 years to take off from runway. 80%+ hardware and components of Tejas are made by or originated in Western Countries and Israel. 

Gripen is inducted by NATO countries and other countries. Gripen doesn't need brochure. 
I hate to say this but truth tells all. Gripen is the most advanced 4.5 fighter jet currently available in market in the following categories. 

Advanced Electronics, Information Management, Radar, Networks, Sensor, EW, Software, Engine and Armamanent. 

Source http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/raven-1
http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/meteor/

The Raven ES-05 radar for the Gripen E is a wide field of regard system optimised for multi-role/swing role operations. The system features a comprehensive mode suite for both A/A and A/G including interleaved operation, and has high availability and reliability. The Gripen E avionics also integrate the Skyward-G IRST, providing full operational search and track functionality with a stealth capability, and the Identification Friend-or-Foe (IFF) delivering the full range of IFF capabilities and IFF data fusion with target data from other aircraft sensors.

If western electronics isn't that advanced then India wouldn't buy Rafale. You guys buy Rafale and lecture us to buy junk yard MiG. We know that f%$king politics dude!

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Not really if the j-10 procurement information/ pilot training in China is anything real.
> 
> One squadron worth of pilots had finished training back in December and another began in January.



Why not both? An east west mix.

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## araberuni7

Tanveer666 said:


> That being said,
> 
> 
> lifecycle cost maybe cheaper, but the unit cost of gripen NGs are still expensive. Brazil bought 36 of them at $160 mil a piece (the figure includes 25 years of maintenance cost (?) and weaponry) BD doesn't have that sort of cash lying around, unless the swede's offer us a loan.
> 
> However,for this price($5.8B), we could get easily 24-28 SU-35's (+weapons+ToT) if we really wanted to.


Just a minor moderation. Brazilian Gripen is $110m plus cost because Brazilian Gripen will be manufactured/assembled in Brazil. That's costly ToT.
If Bangladesh buy Gripen then that will be off the shelf and fly-way condition. It will be $85m per Gripen or less than $85m.

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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> After having 31+ squadrons of fighter jet, Indian always worried that Bangladesh may induct an advanced fighter jet. Indian made Tejas took 30 years to take off from runway. 80%+ hardware and components of Tejas are made by or originated in Western Countries and Israel.
> 
> Gripen is inducted by NATO countries and other countries. Gripen doesn't need brochure.
> I hate to say this but truth tells all. Gripen is the most advanced 4.5 fighter jet currently available in market in the following categories.
> 
> Advanced Electronics, Information Management, Radar, Networks, Sensor, EW, Software, Engine and Armamanent.
> 
> Source http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/raven-1
> http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/meteor/
> 
> The Raven ES-05 radar for the Gripen E is a wide field of regard system optimised for multi-role/swing role operations. The system features a comprehensive mode suite for both A/A and A/G including interleaved operation, and has high availability and reliability. The Gripen E avionics also integrate the Skyward-G IRST, providing full operational search and track functionality with a stealth capability, and the Identification Friend-or-Foe (IFF) delivering the full range of IFF capabilities and IFF data fusion with target data from other aircraft sensors.
> 
> If western electronics isn't that advanced then India wouldn't buy Rafale. You guys buy Rafale and lecture us to buy junk yard MiG. We know that f%$king politics dude!


Typhoon is the way to go instead of sukuis. J-10 should replace F-7.
We can crrtainly maintain a sqdn of typhoon. Forget gripen. Nobody in bd even gave a thought of it. Why are you wasting your time which has no possibility in bd despite being a good fighter.


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## Tanveer666

UKBengali said:


> Err BD does for 16 Gripen E that will not need to be paid for immediately. If a contract is signed now do not expect first deliveries till 2021. BD will pay around 2 billion US dollars over 5 years. This is just 400 million dollars a year for a country that found 1 billion US dollars a year from 2014 to build Padma Bridge.
> 
> BD has a 273 billion US dollar economy growing at more than 7% a year.




"Just" 400 million is still quite a lot. We would be paying just over 1% of our *foreign reserve* for 5 years. I don't think Finance ministry will approve. And like I said, we could procure 12 Su-35s for the same price.


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## TopCat

Tanveer666 said:


> "Just" 400 million is still quite a lot. We would be paying just over 1% of our for 5 years. I don't think Finance ministry will approve. And like I said, we could procure 12 Su-35s for the same price.


We have 56 billion dollar budget this year. Govt can find money if it wants. But they are afraid of their neighbor as well as afraid of a strong military.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Typhoon is the way to go instead of sukuis. J-10 should replace F-7.
> We can crrtainly maintain a sqdn of typhoon. Forget gripen. Nobody in bd even gave a thought of it. Why are you wasting your time which has no possibility in bd despite being a good fighter.



Typhoon is overkill and WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.

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## MiG-35-BD

BD economy in horrible shape despite fudged "growth rates". Doubt we can buy anything other than a few "MiG-35s"

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## UKBengali

MiG-35-BD said:


> BD economy in horrible shape despite fudged "growth rates". Doubt we can buy anything other than a few "MiG-35s"



Yeah, BD is fooling IMF, World Bank and ADB.



TopCat said:


> Typhoon is the way to go instead of sukuis. J-10 should replace F-7.
> We can crrtainly maintain a sqdn of typhoon. Forget gripen. Nobody in bd even gave a thought of it. Why are you wasting your time which has no possibility in bd despite being a good fighter.



Typhoon is too expensive as it will cost twice that of Gripen to buy and operate.
SU-30 is required for it's massive range and payload.


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## KapitaanAli

araberuni7 said:


> After having 31+ squadrons of fighter jet, Indian always worried that Bangladesh may induct an advanced fighter jet. Indian made Tejas took 30 years to take off from runway. 80%+ hardware and components of Tejas are made by or originated in Western Countries and Israel.
> 
> Gripen is inducted by NATO countries and other countries. Gripen doesn't need brochure.
> I hate to say this but truth tells all. Gripen is the most advanced 4.5 fighter jet currently available in market in the following categories.
> 
> Advanced Electronics, Information Management, Radar, Networks, Sensor, EW, Software, Engine and Armamanent.
> 
> Source http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/raven-1
> http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/meteor/
> 
> The Raven ES-05 radar for the Gripen E is a wide field of regard system optimised for multi-role/swing role operations. The system features a comprehensive mode suite for both A/A and A/G including interleaved operation, and has high availability and reliability. The Gripen E avionics also integrate the Skyward-G IRST, providing full operational search and track functionality with a stealth capability, and the Identification Friend-or-Foe (IFF) delivering the full range of IFF capabilities and IFF data fusion with target data from other aircraft sensors.
> 
> If western electronics isn't that advanced then India wouldn't buy Rafale. You guys buy Rafale and lecture us to buy junk yard MiG. We know that f%$king politics dude!


Gripen E is in works since around 2006.
And that is by a company that has been making fighter aircrafts for decades.
You'll see FOC only around 2025.
It has only flown one prototype by last year.

If you're yet to make even one aircraft component, it's best to avoid being emotional about other's programmes that started from scratch with no support structure. (And took 11-12 years from final design to first flight.)

And good job linking me brochures to disprove my point that some companies are best at making brochures. Yeah, Meteor and Raven is great, but you'll see the variation from Gripen's brochure numbers and find that their scenario for those numbers isn't your requirement, when you trial them.
Maybe those variations won't be serious. All I asked was to do the trials yourself.

Tejas is indeed based on Western philosophy than Russian. So? I didn't ask you to buy Russian/Chinese.
But since you brought it up, let me tell you, the only way BAF will buy fighters is through lines of credit, and there are three countries that'll give that to you.
Sweden isn't one of them.

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## UKBengali

Tanveer666 said:


> "Just" 400 million is still quite a lot. We would be paying just over 1% of our for 5 years. I don't think Finance ministry will approve. And like I said, we could procure 12 Su-35s for the same price.



Gripen E is required as BD needs a Western supplier as per Rohingya issue. Cannot just depend on Russia and China.
400 million US dollar is around 1% of BD budget this year but will be much less by 2022 when the final payment is made.

@KapitaanAli : BD has no need for line of credit for 16 Gripen E. It can pay the full cost by the time the last planes land in BD. Gripen E is good enough to f*uck the MAF badly.

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## Tanveer666

TopCat said:


> We have 56 billion dollar budget this year. Govt can find money if it wants. But they are afraid of their neighbor as well as afraid of a strong military.





UKBengali said:


> Gripen E is required as BD needs a Western supplier as per Rohingya issue. Cannot just depend on Russia and China.
> 400 million US dollar is around 1% of BD budget this year but will be much less by 2022 when the final payment is made



We may have a $56B budget this year, but our foreign reserve is just $33B. that maybe further reduced due to increased imports and lower remittance being sent from abroad.

EDIT: @UKBengali our last major defense procurement of $1Billion was due to a loan by russia Do you really think we can procure $2B fighter with our own money? Our foreign reserves are simply not large enough to justfy these kind of procurements. currently maximum amount we may spendfor procurement is around $1B


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## UKBengali

Tanveer666 said:


> We may have a $56B budget this year, but our foreign reserve is just $33B. that maybe further reduced due to increased imports and lower remittance being sent from abroad.
> 
> EDIT: @UKBengali our last major defense procurement of $1Billion was due to a loan by russia Do you really think we can procure $2B fighter with our own money? Our foreign reserves are simply not large enough to justfy these kind of procurements. currently maximum amount we may spendfor procurement is around $1B




Dude, you are not looking at how the BD economy is progressing.The economy is now 276 billion US dollars with growth exceeding 7% a year and is on an upward trajectory.

Like I say BD found 4 billion US dollars out of it's own money between 2014-2018 to build Padma Bridge and so can find 2 billion US dollars between 2018-2022 to purchase 16 Gripen E. These fighters are critical for BAF since the Rohingya crisis has exposed BD has no friends at all it can count on, apart from far away Turkey that is not fully developed enough yet to supply all of BD's weapons imports.

I simply cannot state how important a squadron of 16 Gripen E(with 1-2 AWACs) is for the national security of BD. These planes are far far more needed than either Russian Su-30SMEs or Chinese J-10Cs as both those countries supported the Barman savages over the Rohingyas.


Like @Avicenna has stated, BD has a good reputation in the Western world and BD need only hire some good lobbyists in Washington and there is a good chance that the US will clear the engine transfer to allow Sweden to sell Gripens to BD.

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## MiG-35-BD

those of us who actually live in Bangladesh and know the economy know that this is a lot of trash about 7% growth. The business environment is in a severe downturn. Bangladeshi figures for "GDP" are trash, madeup numbers. IMF and WB are not the police that they will come and "catch you". 

Try to at least act mature instead of making snide remarks.

Probably talking to a teen with raging hormones so worthless to respond. 

Nobody in BD thinks BAF will be gettin Typhoons and Gripens and what-not. These are childhood wet dreams of some child in his cot living in the UK.

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## Tanveer666

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you are not looking at how the BD economy is progressing.The economy is now 276 billion US dollars with growth exceeding 7% a year and is on an upward trajectory.
> 
> Like I say BD found 4 billion US dollars out of it's own money between 2014-2018 to build Padma Bridge and so can find 2 billion US dollars between 2018-2022 to purchase 16 Gripen E. These fighters are critical for BAF since the Rohingya crisis has exposed BD has no friends at all it can count on, apart from far away Turkey that is not fully developed enough yet to supply all of BD's weapons imports.
> 
> I simply cannot state how important a squadron of 16 Gripen E(with 1-2 AWACs) is for the national security of BD. These planes are far far more needed than either Russian Su-30SMEs or Chinese J-10Cs as both those countries supported the Barman savages over the Rohingyas.
> 
> 
> Like @Avicenna has stated, BD has a good reputation in the Western world and BD need only hire some good lobbysists in Washington and there is a good chance that the US will clear the engine transfer to allow Sweden to sell Gripens to BD.



we all agree on the importance of procuring these fighters. I am simply pointing out, it is not financially practical for BD to purchase them without any loans. If sweden offers us a loan, then fine. But if they don't (and there is a good chance that they won't) GoB wont spend $2B dollars after it, especially since the fighters dont provide any tangible benifit which they can show to the voters (unlike padma bridge) so they wont pursue it.



MiG-35-BD said:


> those of us who actually live in Bangladesh and know the economy know that this is a lot of trash about 7% growth. The business environment is in a severe downturn. Bangladeshi figures for "GDP" are trash, madeup numbers. IMF and WB are not the police that they will come and "catch you".
> 
> Try to at least act mature instead of making snide remarks.
> 
> Probably talking to a teen with raging hormones so worthless to respond.
> 
> Nobody in BD thinks BAF will be gettin Typhoons and Gripens and what-not. These are childhood wet dreams of some child in his cot living in the UK.




unfortunately i have to agree with you. we have around 30 million unemployed, and at least 10 million of them have tertiary education. The signs don't look too good.

Things aren't looking too good in the banking sector either.


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## UKBengali

Tanveer666 said:


> we all agree on the importance of procuring these fighters. I am simply pointing out, it is not financially practical for BD to purchase them without any loans. If sweden offers us a loan, then fine. But if they don't (and there is a good chance that they won't) GoB wont spend $2B dollars after it, especially since the fighters dont provide any tangible benifit which they can show to the voters (unlike padma bridge) so they wont pursue it.



Is 1 million Rohingyas being pushed into BD not good enough to show docile BD population what happens when you leave yourself defenceless?
India is also becoming emboldened and trying to label millions of their Muslims as BD'shis and may try the same stunt as Myanmar has done.

Sometimes I wonder what planet some people in BD live on.



MiG-35-BD said:


> those of us who actually live in Bangladesh and know the economy know that this is a lot of trash about 7% growth. The business environment is in a severe downturn. Bangladeshi figures for "GDP" are trash, madeup numbers. IMF and WB are not the police that they will come and "catch you".
> 
> Try to at least act mature instead of making snide remarks.
> 
> Probably talking to a teen with raging hormones so worthless to respond.
> 
> Nobody in BD thinks BAF will be gettin Typhoons and Gripens and what-not. These are childhood wet dreams of some child in his cot living in the UK.



Was this a reference to me by any chance?

So BD government is making up electricity consumption and booming exports are made up as well? Everything is AL hoax that no-one outside is questioning?

This is just your opinion that 7% growth rate is wrong.You have no basis to make this claim apart from "I live in BD and so must know more than people outside". What is your level of education dude? Do you have the skills to make it in the real world and are not just some frustrated loser who wants to trash BD for his own failings?


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## asad71

UKBengali said:


> Is 1 million Rohingyas being pushed into BD not good enough to show docile BD population what happens when you leave yourself defenceless?
> India is also becoming emboldened and trying to label millions of their Muslims as BD'shis and may try the same stunt as Myanmar has done.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder what planet some people in BD live on.
> 
> 
> 
> Was this a reference to me by any chance?
> 
> So BD government is making up electricity consumption and booming exports are made up as well? Everything is AL hoax that no-one outside is questioning?
> 
> This is just your opinion that 7% growth rate is wrong.You have no basis to make this claim apart from "I live in BD and so must know more" than people outside. What is your level of education dude? Do you have the skills to make it in the real world and are not just some frustrated loser who wants to trash BD for his own failings?



Pushing in Assamese and Arakanese into an already overpopulated BD is part of the Buddhist-Brahminic project of ethnic cleaning of Muslims from SA. But it is bound to backfire because the Muslims are a motivated community. From these refugees will rise a force totally motivated in Islamic ideology to eventually drown the Delhi Brahmins in the Ganges and the Burmese Buddhists in the Irrawaddy. Bound to happen, no doubt.


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## The Ronin

BAF ground crew load the Mi-171Sh's pylon mounted cannons with deadly HEI rounds.

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> BAF ground crew load the Mi-171Sh's pylon mounted cannons with deadly HEI rounds.




Are those 50 cal ammo?


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

MiG-35-BD said:


> those of us who actually live in Bangladesh and know the economy know that this is a lot of trash about 7% growth. The business environment is in a severe downturn. Bangladeshi figures for "GDP" are trash, madeup numbers. IMF and WB are not the police that they will come and "catch you".
> 
> Try to at least act mature instead of making snide remarks.
> 
> Probably talking to a teen with raging hormones so worthless to respond.
> 
> Nobody in BD thinks BAF will be gettin Typhoons and Gripens and what-not. These are childhood wet dreams of some child in his cot living in the UK.



rather you should try to go around Bangladesh..... 
try Bogra, Rajshahi, Khulna, Jessore, Faridpur, Narsingdi, Tangail, Mymensingh, Jamalpur, Comilla, Lakshmipur, Maizdi, Brahmanbaria, Habiganj, Gazipur, N-Ganj, Feni, Ishwardi, Saidpur, and whatever other place you would like to add to it.... look around and talk to people.... count the number of new buildings under construction and also their number of floors.... count the bags of cement and amount of rods they're using..... and also count the number of industries under construction as we speak....

my words are nothing.... see for yourself....

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Why not both? An east west mix.


Realistically, we haven’t been able to purchase fighter jets for 8 years now... realistically, j-10 deal was done after 1billion was arranged for as credit by China, realistically... we don’t have money allocated for any major defence purchase in airforce atm to warrant two aircrafts of the same types to operate.

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## Arthur

The Ronin said:


> View attachment 461689


It's almost Two decades now that Bangladesh achieved a 100% radar coverage over it's territory. 
So What's the point of this incomplete and that "something shouldn't be in public domain" map again?


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you are not looking at how the BD economy is progressing.The economy is now 276 billion US dollars with growth exceeding 7% a year and is on an upward trajectory.
> 
> Like I say BD found 4 billion US dollars out of it's own money between 2014-2018 to build Padma Bridge and so can find 2 billion US dollars between 2018-2022 to purchase 16 Gripen E. These fighters are critical for BAF since the Rohingya crisis has exposed BD has no friends at all it can count on, apart from far away Turkey that is not fully developed enough yet to supply all of BD's weapons imports.
> 
> I simply cannot state how important a squadron of 16 Gripen E(with 1-2 AWACs) is for the national security of BD. These planes are far far more needed than either Russian Su-30SMEs or Chinese J-10Cs as both those countries supported the Barman savages over the Rohingyas.
> 
> 
> Like @Avicenna has stated, BD has a good reputation in the Western world and BD need only hire some good lobbyists in Washington and there is a good chance that the US will clear the engine transfer to allow Sweden to sell Gripens to BD.



Guys.. just hold you horses...
YOu have to first think about the BAF requirement. BAF is looking for deep attack aircraft so the tender was all about. How Gripen fit in that? We may replace F-7 with gripen but J-10 is a far better contender as we are using chinese missiles which are far more economic and have a good prospect of TOT in the future.
The reason I suggested Typhoon is because of fewer number of aircraft which can be afforded for a squadron for sure. I hope BAF dont go for Mig-25 $hit.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Guys.. just hold you horses...
> YOu have to first think about the BAF requirement. BAF is looking for deep attack aircraft so the tender was all about. How Gripen fit in that? We may replace F-7 with gripen but J-10 is a far better contender as we are using chinese missiles which are far more economic and have a good prospect of TOT in the future.
> The reason I suggested Typhoon is because of fewer number of aircraft which can be afforded for a squadron for sure. I hope BAF dont go for Mig-25 $hit.



Top requirement for BAF is a Western aircraft as per Rohingya issue. Typhoon would be a better fighter but is more expensive and has higher operating costs.

BD can afford a single squadron(16) of Gripen Es while also purchasing SU-30SME and J-10C. Gripen E will wipe out MAF's Mig-29s and JF-17s and it is likely to also be better than the SU-30SME at air-to-air combat as well.


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Top requirement for BAF is a Western aircraft as per Rohingya issue. Typhoon would be a better fighter but is more expensive and has higher operating costs.
> 
> BD can afford a single squadron(16) of Gripen Es while also purchasing SU-30SME and J-10C. Gripen E will wipe out MAF's Mig-29s and JF-17s and it is likely to also be better than the SU-30SME at air-to-air combat as well.


I will rather ditch entire SU-30 and procure Typhoon. Gripen will be redundant for either J-10 or Typhoon.


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## gslv mk3

KapitaanAli said:


> If you're yet to make even one aircraft component, it's best to avoid being emotional about other's programmes



Lol, so damn true. I don't think there is a single certified aerospace vendor there...

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> I will rather ditch entire SU-30 and procure Typhoon. Gripen will be redundant for either J-10 or Typhoon.



You do know that only the SU-30SME has the range and payload to support the BN far out in the Bay of Bengal?
Again Typhoon is too expensive to buy and operate for an airforce like BD.

Let me try to explain what BAF needs and why:

1. Gripen E- Relatively cheap to buy and operate. Far superior than any MAF fighter apart from the Su-30SME but it should still be better than that with it's superior network centric warfare and Meteor ramjet AAM. It also comes from a source where it can be freely used against Myanmar.

2. SU-30SME - only realistic option to get a heavy fighter that can support BN far out in Bay of Bengal and carry heavy load deep into enemy territory.

3. J-10C - Best Chinese 4th generation fighter and potential to take on anything in the IAF arsenal. Can be freely used against India.

@Avicenna
@araberuni7


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## araberuni7

Its the job of Saab to clear Engine from Washington not Bangladesh. Saab has done it for RTAF Gripen. Typhoon is too costly for BAF to procure a squadron. But Typhoon Trache 3 is great indeed. Cost will prohabit BD to procure Typhoon. 
Bangladeshi military leaders are weak and pathetic not the economy. Our politicians are also licking Indians a$$ that's a major problem too.

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## UKBengali

araberuni7 said:


> Its the job of Saab to clear Engine from Washington not Bangladesh. Saab has done it for RTAF Gripen. Typhoon is too costly for BAF to procure a squadron. But Typhoon Trache 3 is great indeed. Cost will prohabit BD to procure Typhoon.
> Bangladeshi military leaders are weak and pathetic not the economy. Our politicians are also licking Indians a$$ that's a major problem too.




BD should pre-empt this by lobbying Washington first.
Thailand had an advantage as it already has US fighters and so has already been "pre-approved".

Saab is hardly likely to make too much effort for a single squadron of 16 planes.


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## araberuni7

UKBengali said:


> You do know that only the SU-30SME has the range and payload to support the BN far out in the Bay of Bengal?
> Again Typhoon is too expensive to buy and operate for an airforce like BD.
> 
> Let me try to explain what BAF needs and why:
> 
> 1. Gripen E- Relatively cheap to buy and operate. Far superior than any MAF fighter apart from the Su-30SME but it should still be better than that with it's superior network centric warfare and Meteor ramjet AAM. It also comes from a source where it can be freely used against Myanmar.
> 
> 2. SU-30SME - only realistic option to get a heavy fighter that can support BN far out in Bay of Bengal and carry heavy load deep into enemy territory.
> 
> 3. J-10C - Best Chinese 4th generation fighter and potential to take on anything in the IAF arsenal. Can be freely used against India.
> 
> @Avicenna
> @araberuni7


Su-30SME is chicken in front of Gripen E. Russian fighter has very high radar signatures. Gripen can kill not just Su-30SME but also Su-35 on basis on high radar signatures. Russian Zhuk-AE or Zhuk-ME radar can be jammed by Gripen. 
Zhuk-AE radar known to be overheated and need high maintenance. This is exactly why Russia didn't supply Zhuk-AE radar to Egyptian Air Force. Zhuk-AE is still 5/6 years behind schedule. Dont believe that shitty Wikipedia.
BN's seaspray would detect MAF and MN assets from a very long distance. 
Point is European radar is and always great today and decades to come.


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## UKBengali

araberuni7 said:


> Su-30SME is chicken in front of Gripen E. Russian fighter has very high radar signatures. Gripen can kill not just Su-30SME but also Su-35 on basis on high radar signatures. Russian Zhuk-AE or Zhuk-ME radar can be jammed by Gripen.
> Zhuk-AE radar known to be overheated and need high maintenance. This is exactly why Russia didn't supply Zhuk-AE radar to Egyptian Air Force. Zhuk-AE is still 5/6 years behind schedule. Dont believe that shitty Wikipedia.
> BN's seaspray would detect MAF and MN assets from a very long distance.
> Point is European radar is and always great today and decades to come.




We still need to respect the SU-30-series but I have already made the point that the Gripen-E has advantage with better network-centric warfare and Meteor AAM.
16 Gripen Es would totally neutralise the 50 or so Mi-29s, JF-17s and SU-30SME that Myanmar will have soon and so that is what BAF should get before anything else. I am sure that the idiots in BAF/AL are too busy negotiating for Russian and Chinese aircraft at this very minute but maybe they will surprise us!

PS - Russian aircraft radars are poor compared to EU/US but the Chinese have made huge strides as per J-11/J-10C and J-20. I would not be very surprised if the AESA inside the J-10C is somewhat similar in performance to Rafale and Typhoon's AESA radar.

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## wiseone2

UKBengali said:


> Top requirement for BAF is a Western aircraft as per Rohingya issue. Typhoon would be a better fighter but is more expensive and has higher operating costs.
> 
> BD can afford a single squadron(16) of Gripen Es while also purchasing SU-30SME and J-10C. Gripen E will wipe out MAF's Mig-29s and JF-17s and it is likely to also be better than the SU-30SME at air-to-air combat as well.



having few combat aircraft does not give you the ability to launch attacks on enemy air bases deep inside Myanmar
enough said

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## UKBengali

wiseone2 said:


> having few combat aircraft does not give you the ability to launch attacks on enemy air bases deep inside Myanmar
> enough said



Ok if you say so.

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## wiseone2

UKBengali said:


> Ok if you say so.


you said just otherwise


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> rather you should try to go around Bangladesh.....
> try Bogra, Rajshahi, Khulna, Jessore, Faridpur, Narsingdi, Tangail, Mymensingh, Jamalpur, Comilla, Lakshmipur, Maizdi, Brahmanbaria, Habiganj, Gazipur, N-Ganj, Feni, Ishwardi, Saidpur, and whatever other place you would like to add to it.... look around and talk to people.... count the number of new buildings under construction and also their number of floors.... count the bags of cement and amount of rods they're using..... and also count the number of industries under construction as we speak....
> 
> my words are nothing.... see for yourself....



Too many false-flaggers in the Bangladesh section these days...trying to put down and discourage our upward trajectory for whatever reason. I'd say ignore these people.

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## araberuni7

This is why BAF should avoid shitty MiG-35. 

Russia’s Phazotron-NIIR Corp. completed factory trials of its Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array radar. “The radar is combat-ready,” says Yuri Gouskov, chief designer. A 600-mm.-dia. (24-in.) prototype with 680 transmit/receive (TR) modules has been tested on a MiG-35 since 2008. Fight tests verified its operating range against air and ground targets and in ground-mapping modes. The prototype has a detection range of 60-65 km. (37-40 mi.). The production variant has a detection of range of 130KM. *http://aviationweek.com/awin/zhuk-aesa-radar-good-go *

The ZHUK AE is the russians AESA and has been fitted to the MiG 35 prototype being offered to india as their new "low" capability fighter to complement their "high" capability SU 30MKI. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-to-blame-for-mig-35-failure-in-mmrca-360364/ 

The Zhuk Radar is quite small and there would have to be cooling constraints in the smaller nosecone. Given these limitations and the imaturity of the system you could assume it would still be quite inferior to *western and Russian radars* in all peramiters. auairpower.net 

The radar uses multiple four channel transceivers modules generating an output of 5watt per channel, installed on a liquid cooled base plate to dissipate the generated heat. *If a specific transceiver is overheated, it will be switched off by the radar computer until it cools down. *
http://defense-update.com/features/du-1-07/aesaradar_zhuk_AE.htm
*
*


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> PS - Russian aircraft radars are poor compared to EU/US but the Chinese have made huge strides as per J-11/J-10C and J-20. I would not be very surprised if the AESA inside the J-10C is somewhat similar in performance to Rafale and Typhoon's AESA radar


Has been reported to be better in every way compared to the latest f-16 block 70


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> You do know that only the SU-30SME has the range and payload to support the BN far out in the Bay of Bengal?
> Again Typhoon is too expensive to buy and operate for an airforce like BD.
> 
> Let me try to explain what BAF needs and why:
> 
> 1. Gripen E- Relatively cheap to buy and operate. Far superior than any MAF fighter apart from the Su-30SME but it should still be better than that with it's superior network centric warfare and Meteor ramjet AAM. It also comes from a source where it can be freely used against Myanmar.
> 
> 2. SU-30SME - only realistic option to get a heavy fighter that can support BN far out in Bay of Bengal and carry heavy load deep into enemy territory.
> 
> 3. J-10C - Best Chinese 4th generation fighter and potential to take on anything in the IAF arsenal. Can be freely used against India.
> 
> @Avicenna
> @araberuni7



Do we know what the objectives and doctrine of the BAF is? Has it changed since the Rohingya crisis? 

IMO, the politics of the matter have changed. How did the various players conduct themselves during a period of open antagonism to BD? Who were our friends? Who were or helped our enemies? And what was the situation inside the country? What was the thinking?

These are all questions that need to be thought about and addressed. 

It really doesnt matter if BD buys a few Mig-35s or SU-35s or Gripens or J-10s.

What needs to be addressed is a coherent military and political strategy to safeguard the interests of Bangladesh.

Back to the BAF, I would think the objectives would be to:

1) Safeguard the airspace of the nation from intruders.
2) Provide assistance to BD ground forces.
3) Ensure protection of naval forces in BOB.
4) Abilitiy to conduct offensive operations in enemy territory.

The above is an EXTREMELY simplistic list of course.

Now the question is which platforms will be best suited to the jobs.

The other questions are which can BD afford? Which ones have advantageous political ramifications?
And which ones are politically even feasible.

For me I think a political shift needs to happen at this point. Given the supposedly improving economy, as well as the evident increased interest in European radars and short ranged SAMS, I would like for their to be a real examination of the Gripen. I think in terms of capability, its a world class platform. Its small, relatively cheap, and would absolutely upgrade the capabilties of the BAF. 

I think its affordable. BD can surely afford 16 examples if it really wanted to. Hell even Botswana is supposedly considering the type to replace its CF-5s. 

Couple a squadron of 16 Gripen E and 1-2 Eireye or successor platforms and BD has a legitemate capability.

Of course training and profiecency of the types' capabilities will be key.

Politically, it would align BD with the West. And perhaps BD would be seen more as a realistic market for future weapons sales. It would put BD on the path to more options going forward rather than the usual Russian and Chinese wares.

I think BAF has 1 Fulcrum squadron (1/2 strength) and 3 F-7MB, BG, BGI squadrons?

Lets just look at a replacement on a 1:1 basis for now.

16 Gripens and 48 other fighters ( Russian/Chinese ). That would be my approach.

Honestly, I don't have much faith in the leadership of the BAF or Bangladesh for that matter.

I have seen too many petty and simplistic "politics" amongst the Bengali uncles here in the states while growing up.

I can only imagine that this is the case on a governmental level in the country. 

Its a shame.

Back to the BAF, realistically I see only some Mig-35s coming.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Do we know what the objectives and doctrine of the BAF is? Has it changed since the Rohingya crisis?
> 
> IMO, the politics of the matter have changed. How did the various players conduct themselves during a period of open antagonism to BD? Who were our friends? Who were or helped our enemies? And what was the situation inside the country? What was the thinking?
> 
> These are all questions that need to be thought about and addressed.
> 
> It really doesnt matter if BD buys a few Mig-35s or SU-35s or Gripens or J-10s.
> 
> What needs to be addressed is a coherent military and political strategy to safeguard the interests of Bangladesh.
> 
> Back to the BAF, I would think the objectives would be to:
> 
> 1) Safeguard the airspace of the nation from intruders.
> 2) Provide assistance to BD ground forces.
> 3) Ensure protection of naval forces in BOB.
> 4) Abilitiy to conduct offensive operations in enemy territory.
> 
> The above is an EXTREMELY simplistic list of course.
> 
> Now the question is which platforms will be best suited to the jobs.
> 
> The other questions are which can BD afford? Which ones have advantageous political ramifications?
> And which ones are politically even feasible.
> 
> For me I think a political shift needs to happen at this point. Given the supposedly improving economy, as well as the evident increased interest in European radars and short ranged SAMS, I would like for their to be a real examination of the Gripen. I think in terms of capability, its a world class platform. Its small, relatively cheap, and would absolutely upgrade the capabilties of the BAF.
> 
> I think its affordable. BD can surely afford 16 examples if it really wanted to. Hell even Botswana is supposedly considering the type to replace its CF-5s.
> 
> Couple a squadron of 16 Gripen E and 1-2 Eireye or successor platforms and BD has a legitemate capability.
> 
> Of course training and profiecency of the types' capabilities will be key.
> 
> Politically, it would alight BD with the West. And perhaps BD would be seen more as a realistic market for future weapons sales. It would put BD on the path to more options going forward rather than the usual Russian and Chinese wares.
> 
> I think BAF has 1 Fulcrum squadron (1/2 strength) and 3 F-7MB, BG, BGI squadrons?
> 
> Lets just look at a replacement on a 1:1 basis for now.
> 
> 16 Gripens and 48 other fighters ( Russian/Chinese ). That would be my approach.
> 
> Honestly, I don't have much faith in the leadership of the BAF or Bangladesh for that matter.
> 
> I have seen too many petty and simplistic "politics" amongst the Bengali uncles here in the states while growing up.
> 
> I can only imagine that this is the case on a governmental level in the country.
> 
> Its a shame.
> 
> Back to the BAF, realistically I see only some Mig-35s coming.


Yes, realistically we can’t afford eurofighter in the long run, not at least if we want full operational readiness with highly trained pilots... and as we have been familiar with eastern systems, have most of the stuff we need that are compatible with eastern stuff, I don’t see us going fully western until much later, like after bd had already have become a developed country... so 5-6th generation


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## muhammadali233

UKBengali said:


> 16 Gripen Es would totally neutralise the 50 or so Mi-29s, JF-17s and SU-30SME that Myanmar will have soon and so that is what BAF should get before anything else.


A squad of gripens would enough for to take down the usaf.
For real tho,In which lalalala land do you live in?16 Gripens would take down 50+ Latest Su30s and jf 17s?Saabs gripen is known as a cannon fodder inside and outside europe,countries which operate these don't have a a proper foe.If you had said 2 squad of Rafale it would have been digestable but 16?lol you made day boi.


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## Arthur

BAF has opened tender for expansion and upgrade of it's mi-17 MRO facilities.

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## Avicenna

muhammadali233 said:


> A squad of gripens would enough for to take down the usaf.
> For real tho,In which lalalala land do you live in?16 Gripens would take down 50+ Latest Su30s and jf 17s?Saabs gripen is known as a cannon fodder inside and outside europe,countries which operate these don't have a a proper foe.If you had said 2 squad of Rafale it would have been digestable but 16?lol you made day boi.



Cannon fodder?

What are you smoking?

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## araberuni7

muhammadali233 said:


> A squad of gripens would enough for to take down the usaf.
> For real tho,In which lalalala land do you live in?16 Gripens would take down 50+ Latest Su30s and jf 17s?Saabs gripen is known as a cannon fodder inside and outside europe,countries which operate these don't have a a proper foe.If you had said 2 squad of Rafale it would have been digestable but 16?lol you made day boi.



The Chinese learnt to value electronics, avionics, software, radar, information sharing, digitisation and advanced armament. Indians no longer believe in Russian BS. For ****, Peking duck is the best fighter jet because it is cheap and have some scrap metal ToT.

you are an ignorant. For the record, Gripen E has the most advanced electronics, EW, radar, networks, avionics, digitisation and armament comparing with other 4.5 gen fighters. A group of four Gripen E can blind a squadron of Russian or Chinese origin fighter jet in a BVR or WVR combat.

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## Avicenna

araberuni7 said:


> The Chinese learnt to value electronics, avionics, software, radar, information sharing, digitisation and advanced armament. Indians no longer believe in Russian BS. For ****, Peking duck is the best fighter jet because it is cheap and have some scrap metal ToT.
> 
> you are an ignorant. For the record, Gripen E has the most advanced electronics, EW, radar, networks, avionics, digitisation and armament comparing with other 4.5 gen fighters. A group of four Gripen E can blind a squadron of Russian or Chinese origin fighter jet in a BVR or WVR combat.



Give me a Gripen E any day of the week over a MiG, Sukhoi, or Chengdu product.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Give me a Gripen E any day of the week over a MiG, Sukhoi, or Chengdu product.



Gripen E with Meteor and AWACs would slaughter any MAF fighter, including Su-30SME.

I am not sure about J-10C as that has the latest Chinese stealth coatings and avionics. It is said
that the J-10C has a modified version of the J-20's electronics.

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## Neptune_

Wish we didn't have Burma as our neighbour. If that was the case we wouldn't have to spend millions of dollars behind these fancy toys, instead we could've used it behind something productive.

But considering the current circumstances, we badly need modernise our airforce.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Do we know what the objectives and doctrine of the BAF is? Has it changed since the Rohingya crisis?
> 
> IMO, the politics of the matter have changed. How did the various players conduct themselves during a period of open antagonism to BD? Who were our friends? Who were or helped our enemies? And what was the situation inside the country? What was the thinking?
> 
> These are all questions that need to be thought about and addressed.
> 
> It really doesnt matter if BD buys a few Mig-35s or SU-35s or Gripens or J-10s.
> 
> What needs to be addressed is a coherent military and political strategy to safeguard the interests of Bangladesh.
> 
> Back to the BAF, I would think the objectives would be to:
> 
> 1) Safeguard the airspace of the nation from intruders.
> 2) Provide assistance to BD ground forces.
> 3) Ensure protection of naval forces in BOB.
> 4) Abilitiy to conduct offensive operations in enemy territory.
> 
> The above is an EXTREMELY simplistic list of course.
> 
> Now the question is which platforms will be best suited to the jobs.
> 
> The other questions are which can BD afford? Which ones have advantageous political ramifications?
> And which ones are politically even feasible.
> 
> For me I think a political shift needs to happen at this point. Given the supposedly improving economy, as well as the evident increased interest in European radars and short ranged SAMS, I would like for their to be a real examination of the Gripen. I think in terms of capability, its a world class platform. Its small, relatively cheap, and would absolutely upgrade the capabilties of the BAF.
> 
> I think its affordable. BD can surely afford 16 examples if it really wanted to. Hell even Botswana is supposedly considering the type to replace its CF-5s.
> 
> Couple a squadron of 16 Gripen E and 1-2 Eireye or successor platforms and BD has a legitemate capability.
> 
> Of course training and profiecency of the types' capabilities will be key.
> 
> Politically, it would align BD with the West. And perhaps BD would be seen more as a realistic market for future weapons sales. It would put BD on the path to more options going forward rather than the usual Russian and Chinese wares.
> 
> I think BAF has 1 Fulcrum squadron (1/2 strength) and 3 F-7MB, BG, BGI squadrons?
> 
> Lets just look at a replacement on a 1:1 basis for now.
> 
> 16 Gripens and 48 other fighters ( Russian/Chinese ). That would be my approach.
> 
> Honestly, I don't have much faith in the leadership of the BAF or Bangladesh for that matter.
> 
> I have seen too many petty and simplistic "politics" amongst the Bengali uncles here in the states while growing up.
> 
> I can only imagine that this is the case on a governmental level in the country.
> 
> Its a shame.
> 
> Back to the BAF, realistically I see only some Mig-35s coming.


End of the day a dictatorial political party give more preference to its own backer than the country's backer. AL will not antagonize China and India as without them most of their leaders will be lynched under BNP/Jamat rule.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> End of the day a dictatorial political party give more preference to its own backer than the country's backer. AL will not antagonize China and India as without them most of their leaders will be lynched under BNP/Jamat rule.



Bangladesh's problems are much more than just deciding what fancy toys to buy.

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## araberuni7

TopCat said:


> End of the day a dictatorial political party give more preference to its own backer than the country's backer. AL will not antagonize China and India as without them most of their leaders will be lynched under BNP/Jamat rule.



What choice do we have? People are feedup of BNP i.e. Tarek Rahman.

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## muhammadali233

araberuni7 said:


> The Chinese learnt to value electronics, avionics, software, radar, information sharing, digitisation and advanced armament. Indians no longer believe in Russian BS. For ****, Peking duck is the best fighter jet because it is cheap and have some scrap metal ToT.
> 
> you are an ignorant. For the record, Gripen E has the most advanced electronics, EW, radar, networks, avionics, digitisation and armament comparing with other 4.5 gen fighters. A group of four Gripen E can blind a squadron of Russian or Chinese origin fighter jet in a BVR or WVR combat.


lol


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## asad71

1.BAF is a classical case of deceit by political leadership. A Service with inventory deserving command by an Air Cdre, or best an AVM, has been loaded with chief of the rank of ACM. (Fyi, Asghar Khan and Nur Khan were AMs). BAF therefore has a row of AMs, AVMs and Air Cdres. Obviously a scheme to bribe officers. Main inventory continues to be F-7s and Mig-29s. And of course lots of trainers and choppers which really belong to the army.
2. Do not forget, Bengalis make good pilots. Buch Alauddin, MM Alam, Saiful Azam are some. Across the border were Lieut P Roy of WW I and AM Mukhajee first chief of IAF.
3. Air Force is an offensive machine. Unless a nation is free to choose for itself, air force inventory will remain absurdly poor.

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## The Ronin

২০২০ সালের মাঝামাঝি বা শেষ দিকে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের অর্ডার করা মিডিয়াম রেঞ্জ এয়ারডিফেন্স সিস্টেম HQ-16/LY-80D এর ডেলিভারি পাবে।

টেন্ডার অনুসারে অর্ডার দেয়ার ২০ মাসের মধ্যে ডেলিভারি পাবে বিমানবাহিনী। ২০১৮ সালের ফেব্রুয়ারি মাসে চীনের সাথে এই চুক্তি স্বাক্ষরিত হয়।

আর বিমানবাহিনী ১৭ (মতান্তরে ৪০ জন) সদস্যের দল আজ রাশিয়া গিয়েছে।সেখানে রাশিয়ার সাথে যুদ্ধবিমান ক্রয় সংক্রান্ত প্রায় ১২৫০+ মিলিয়নের লোন এর চুক্তি হবে যার আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ২৪ টি 4++ জেনারেশনের MiG-35 যুদ্ধবিমান কেনা হবে।

এছাড়া বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য আরো ৮+৩ বা ১১ টি Yak-130 ফাইটার ট্রেইনার বিমান এবং MRCA হিসেবে Sukhoi SU-35/30SME এর খসড়া চুক্তিও স্বাক্ষরিত হবার কথা রয়েছে।

এগুলো বাস্তবায়ন হলে প্রায় ২.৫ বিলিয়নের চুক্তি হবে রাশিয়া এবং বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর মধ্যে।এছাড়া অনেকের মতে Singapore Air Show তেই বিমানবাহিনী তাদের প্রায় সব ডিল ফাইনাল করে ফেলেছে,শুধু আনুষ্ঠানিকতা বাকি।

Credit-DTB

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## araberuni7

#FakeNews

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## asgur

Although we never needed these, cool video:




__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Avicenna

asgur said:


> Although we never needed these, cool video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



The Yaks have a really nice paint scheme.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> The Yaks have a really nice paint scheme.


Seeing the bg planes get silver paints now, I guess future bd fighters will all be grey or silver... makes sense that way

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## Avicenna

Well in the past BAF J-6 had a similar color scheme.

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## 帅的一匹

When will J10 be delivered?


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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> When will J10 be delivered?


Timeframe beginning from Late December to early next year

Also, calm about the gripen... there will be no gripen. First deal will have 24 mig 35s in order, with loan financing....

Total 4 sqd of mig 35 is planned and two j-10

I don’t want to say anything about the sukhois

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> Gripen E with Meteor and AWACs would slaughter any MAF fighter, including Su-30SME.
> 
> I am not sure about J-10C as that has the latest Chinese stealth coatings and avionics. It is said
> that the J-10C has a modified version of the J-20's electronics.



Also - one term....

100% sortie rate as demonstrated in Thai AF.

If they can't get off the ground, your vaunted Su-35 isn't worth it's weight in inferior pot-metal.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

The Ronin said:


> ২০২০ সালের মাঝামাঝি বা শেষ দিকে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী তাদের অর্ডার করা মিডিয়াম রেঞ্জ এয়ারডিফেন্স সিস্টেম HQ-16/LY-80D এর ডেলিভারি পাবে।
> 
> টেন্ডার অনুসারে অর্ডার দেয়ার ২০ মাসের মধ্যে ডেলিভারি পাবে বিমানবাহিনী। ২০১৮ সালের ফেব্রুয়ারি মাসে চীনের সাথে এই চুক্তি স্বাক্ষরিত হয়।
> 
> আর বিমানবাহিনী ১৭ (মতান্তরে ৪০ জন) সদস্যের দল আজ রাশিয়া গিয়েছে।সেখানে রাশিয়ার সাথে যুদ্ধবিমান ক্রয় সংক্রান্ত প্রায় ১২৫০+ মিলিয়নের লোন এর চুক্তি হবে যার আওতায় বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য ২৪ টি 4++ জেনারেশনের MiG-35 যুদ্ধবিমান কেনা হবে।
> 
> এছাড়া বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য আরো ৮+৩ বা ১১ টি Yak-130 ফাইটার ট্রেইনার বিমান এবং MRCA হিসেবে Sukhoi SU-35/30SME এর খসড়া চুক্তিও স্বাক্ষরিত হবার কথা রয়েছে।
> 
> এগুলো বাস্তবায়ন হলে প্রায় ২.৫ বিলিয়নের চুক্তি হবে রাশিয়া এবং বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর মধ্যে।এছাড়া অনেকের মতে Singapore Air Show তেই বিমানবাহিনী তাদের প্রায় সব ডিল ফাইনাল করে ফেলেছে,শুধু আনুষ্ঠানিকতা বাকি।
> 
> Credit-DTB


is it true or making us April ful.
link pls.


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## araberuni7

BAF Chief is visiting Malaysia for amusement and selfie shot. This guy is a nutcase and a retarded A..hole.
Source ISPR

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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> BAF Chief is visiting Malaysia for amusement and selfie shot. This guy is a nutcase and a retarded A..hole.
> Source ISPR


Fat people are lazy and stupid --- Donald Trump

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## Centaur

TopCat said:


> Fat people are lazy and stupid --- Donald Trump



Sob thika vala hoy @TopCat vaire BAF chief banaile. Hajar hoileo romoni mohon smart man .

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## Bengal Tiger 71

As per strategic world politics BAF should go for-
J10B- 3 sqd
SU 35- 3 sqd
Euro Fighter Typhoon-2 sqd
within 2021,2025 2+1+1 sqd total 64 birds
after 2025 update version of J series + SU 35+ EFT= 64


why BAF is buying more and more Yak 130, better go for fighter crafts.


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## araberuni7

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> why BAF is buying more and more Yak 130, better go for fighter crafts.



BAF was sleeping whilst MAF was procuring fighter jets, Radar and SAM. MAF pilots recieved *tactical training* in Pakistan, India, China, UK and Australia.

The most of BAF pilots bearly had 250 flying hours or less in any trainer. BAF officers played videos games on BAF bases for the last 20 years. Hence they need an advanced trainer to train them for fighter jets. That's my assumption.

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## Tanveer666

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> As per strategic world politics BAF should go for-
> J10B- 3 sqd
> SU 35- 3 sqd
> Euro Fighter Typhoon-2 sqd
> within 2021,2025 2+1+1 sqd total 64 birds
> after 2025 update version of J series + SU 35+ EFT= 64
> 
> 
> why BAF is buying more and more Yak 130, better go for fighter crafts.




Too bad we will settle for just mig-35 or j-10


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## ghost250



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## araberuni7

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 462308


On a Bell Helicopter? To transport rice for disaster relief in cyclone affected area or UN mission! Is that all! 
You are trying to protect incompetent people who doesn't understand national security!


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## ghost250

araberuni7 said:


> On a Bell Helicopter? To transport rice for disaster relief in cyclone affected area or UN mission! Is that all!
> You are trying to protect incompetent people who doesn't understand national security!


.. didnt try to prove anythng..i just found this pic on fb nd posted here...simple...what the hell is wrong with u??

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## Centaur

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Euro Fighter Typhoon-2 sqd


Isn't it over priced? I think Gripen NG would be much better for us . Atleast eurofighter doesn't make much sense IMHO.


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## araberuni7

shourov323 said:


> .. didnt try to prove anythng..i just found this pic on fb nd posted here...simple...what the hell is wrong with u??


Did you ask same question to BAF Chief? What the hell is wrong with you? Why is he unfit to serve as a chief?
Ask Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, why is $67B economy threatening national security of $276B economy?
Why is Bangladesh feeding 500000 refugees?

BTW Australian cattle rancher has 200000 hours or maybe more on Bell chopper that doesn't prove anything.
We expect more from uniformed and professional organisation. If BAF is really professional at all!

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## Avicenna

Its been weeks.... Any word on any deals for fighters?

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## Bilal9

Guys one humble request - let's not get into petty off-topic fights with each other in an international forum.

It compromises the 'optics' of our nation...

Report rudeness to the mods if necessary.

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## Michael Corleone

araberuni7 said:


> BAF was sleeping whilst MAF was procuring fighter jets, Radar and SAM. MAF pilots recieved *tactical training* in Pakistan, India, China, UK and Australia.
> 
> The most of BAF pilots bearly had 250 flying hours or less in any trainer. BAF officers played videos games on BAF bases for the last 20 years. Hence they need an advanced trainer to train them for fighter jets. That's my assumption.


You can’t fly a commercial aircraft with cpl without at least 3000 hr on the clock. So you’re saying bd Air Force pilots are worse than any commercial pilot out there. Stop speaking out of your bum please

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Michael Corleone said:


> You can’t fly a commercial aircraft with cpl without at least 3000 hr on the clock. So you’re saying bd Air Force pilots are worse than any commercial pilot out there. Stop speaking out of your bum please



well, lets not waste our time on people who have the aim of misleading you by monopolizing your time....

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## wiseone2

Avicenna said:


> Its been weeks.... Any word on any deals for fighters?



i would invest in infrastructure to train pilots more than the actual combat aircraft

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> You can’t fly a commercial aircraft with cpl without at least 3000 hr on the clock. So you’re saying bd Air Force pilots are worse than any commercial pilot out there. Stop speaking out of your bum please


Ofcourse they are worse. Look at BAF chief.. he suppose to have the highest flying hours. I am sure all his heart aeteries will freeze on 3 G's

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## araberuni7

Michael Corleone said:


> You can’t fly a commercial aircraft with cpl without at least 3000 hr on the clock. So you’re saying bd Air Force pilots are worse than any commercial pilot out there. Stop speaking out of your bum please



The recent Yak accident was a proof that BAF pilot with a rank of squadron leader does know how to break a formation or he miscalculated his move. I am sure these people deserve to be disciplined.
BAF is crying for $60m then squadron leader is crashing aircraft. Helicopter pilot is landing on trees not using rhe instrument landing option.
I am critical of BAF for these reasons. I am critical of BAF's incompetence.

Since you mention commercial aircarft. For your reference, the ex-pilot of BAF was flying that commercial aircraft that involved in accident at Kathmandu airport and Sayedpoor airport. He approached runway from wrong direction. Thats the findings.

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## Avicenna

Is there any kind of recruitment drive going on in BD for the air force?

Has anyone studied how the Israelis select individuals for their air force?

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Is there any kind of recruitment drive going on in BD for the air force?
> 
> Has anyone studied how the Israelis select individuals for their air force?


Nah. They are the docile bunch of the three.

BN already recruiting officers in hundreds. they are publishing two circulars for Officer Cadets, three circular for Sailors and combatants every year. 

BA seems to be on the drive too. They are publishing circulars for Short commissions for professional cores every year (short commission were stopped in last decade, now as they need more officers, they revived it). Number of recruits were increased for regular commission and combatant posts. 

BAF on the other hand is hibernating.

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## araberuni7

Khan saheb said:


> Nah. They are the docile bunch of the three.
> 
> BN already recruiting officers in hundreds. they are publishing two circulars for Officer Cadets, three circular for Sailors and combatants every year.
> 
> BA seems to be on the drive too. They are publishing circulars for Short commissions for professional cores every year (short commission were stopped in last decade, now as they meed more officers, so they revived it again). Number of recruits were increased for regular commission and combatant posts.
> 
> *BAF on the other hand is hibernating.*



I am not the only one who is critical of BAF. You are also critical of BAF. For BAF, *hibernating* is the spiral downhill as you go says BAF Chief. Nevermind BAF will land helo on trees.


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## Michael Corleone

araberuni7 said:


> The recent Yak accident was a proof that BAF pilot with a rank of squadron leader does know how to break a formation or he miscalculated his move. I am sure these people deserve to be disciplined.
> BAF is crying for $60m then squadron leader is crashing aircraft. Helicopter pilot is landing on trees not using rhe instrument landing option.
> I am critical of BAF for these reasons. I am critical of BAF's incompetence.
> 
> Since you mention commercial aircarft. For your reference, the ex-pilot of BAF was flying that commercial aircraft that involved in accident at Kathmandu airport and Sayedpoor airport. He approached runway from wrong direction. Thats the findings.


1st, BAF has an outstanding flight safety record. 
2. First yak crash was for malfunction of flight control surface. Second was during a dogfight simulation in less visibility. 
3. Nepalese control room provided wrong instructions, the plane had fault in it and big the captain and first officer was not willing to fly the aircraft without proper inspection... it’s both US bangla and the control rooms fault and no one names their runway in interchangeable numbers... ie 20 and 02

Please research what you’re speaking about. I’ve seen you say many stupid things before this but I’ve purposely held myself off. As for gripen... we requested second hand gripen before j-10 but was rejected.



TopCat said:


> Ofcourse they are worse. Look at BAF chief.. he suppose to have the highest flying hours. I am sure all his heart aeteries will freeze on 3 G's


Mate you can’t graduate from airforce academy with 3000 hr on the propeller trainer. The training is for 3 years for a reason... RAF have adopted longer training syllabus based on BAF 
But yeah that fat **** will burst a vein if he doesn’t control his eating habit...
Ps. 3G isn’t unbearable force. 
Also have to admit this current chief had to do with everything from scratch... radars, SAM, UAV, training squadrons etc etc etc so we should give him a break.

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## Bilal9

wiseone2 said:


> i would invest in infrastructure to train pilots more than the actual combat aircraft



I believe they have more than enough trainers in proportional ratio, particularly IJT's. 

For IJT alone they have,

8 L-39ZA units on service, soon to be retired...






8 units of K-8W in service, 16 more on order...





and the latest addition, Yak-130 (16 in service). Yak-130's maybe more of AJT, than IJT.

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## bluesky

Bilal9 said:


> I believe they have more than enough trainers in proportional ratio, particularly IJT's.
> 
> For IJT alone they have,
> 
> 8 L-39ZA units on service, soon to be retired...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 units of K-8W in service, 16 more on order...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the latest addition, Yak-130 (16 in service). Yak-130's maybe more of AJT, than IJT.


With so many training planes in the BAF why the PDF posters, specially the @TopCat is unhappy? Why should he think that BAF needs only training planes, but not the combat ones? I think, he has issue with the BAF Chief? I suspect, somehow they are related as Bhaira, and many Bhairas do not like each other.

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## Homo Sapiens



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## mb444

bluesky said:


> With so many training planes in the BAF why the PDF posters, specially the @TopCat is unhappy? Why should he think that BAF needs only training planes, but not the combat ones? I think, he has issue with the BAF Chief? I suspect, somehow they are related as Bhaira, and many Bhairas do not like each other.



the issue is BAF has too many trainers and not enough actual fighting force.... its fine if we saw incremental development but there has been none..... BD has regressed in the last 20 years and it is no ones fault but BAF.


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> the issue is BAF has too many trainers and not enough actual fighting force.... its fine if we saw incremental development but there has been none..... BD has regressed in the last 20 years and it is no ones fault but BAF.


Ahem BNP AHEM...
old pilots retired to the point there was no more fighter pilots, old pilots serve extra or their career was extended for training of new pilots, 
Also the scrutinizing is more in BAF compared to army or navy when selecting cadets, a little problem here and there and they reject applicants, I know an applicant who got rejected because he was 3 lbs less than the mandated requirement... like cmon -_-

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> the issue is BAF has too many trainers and not enough actual fighting force.... its fine if we saw incremental development but there has been none..... BD has regressed in the last 20 years and it is no ones fault but BAF.



Really?
Back in the 1996-2001 AL period, BAF wanted 27 F-16s that was approved by the government but this was rejected by the US.
As an alternative an order was placed with Russia for 16 Mig-29s with an option for 16 more. The BNP government that came into power in 2002 cancelled the remaining 8 yet to arrive, to leave BAF with the only 8 current Mig-29s.
BAF did mess up with the MRCA tender last year but the main fault is BNP, followed by AL who should have given BAF the funds years ago to go purchase a single squadron of 4+ gen fighters.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Really?
> Back in the 1996-2001 AL period, BAF wanted 27 F-16s that was approved by the government but this was rejected by the US.
> As an alternative an order was placed with Russia for 16 Mig-29s with an option for 16 more. The BNP government that came into power in 2002 cancelled the remaining 8 yet to arrive, to leave BAF with the only 8 current Mig-29s.
> BAF did mess up with the MRCA tender last year but the main fault is BNP, followed by AL who should have given BAF the funds years ago to go purchase a single squadron of 4+ gen fighters.


How could you give money when it was tied up in other important things like electricity and providing farmers with enough water. I still remember went Hasina came to power 10 years back... these were the issues reported daily in news channels. Buying fighters back then would be stupid really.

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> How could you give money when it was tied up in other important things like electricity and providing farmers with enough water. I still remember went Hasina came to power 10 years back... these were the issues reported daily in news channels. Buying fighters back then would be stupid really.



Not immediately in 2009 but by end of first term in 2014 would have been ok.
I know that things like electricity that was totally messed up by BNP and infrastructure like
Padma Bridge( World Bank played dirty tricks over the funding and so BD had to go it alone),
had to take priority but BD could have found 2 billion US dollars over several years from 2014 onwards to purchase that squadron of 4+ gen fighters. I am sure that with a BAF that could take on MAF, Barmans would have thought twice before pushing out Rohingyas,


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Not immediately in 2009 but by end of first term in 2014 would have been ok.
> I know that things like electricity that was totally messed up by BNP and infrastructure like
> Padma Bridge( World Bank played dirty tricks over the funding and so BD had to go it alone),
> had to take priority but BD could have found 2 billion US dollars over several years from 2014 onwards to purchase that squadron of 4+ gen fighters. I am sure that with a BAF that could take on MAF, Barmans would have thought twice before pushing out Rohingyas,


Most probably do but I guess they wanted to increase headroom in power generation, the navy had to be built so they prioritized that and pilots again had to be trained.


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## wiseone2

bluesky said:


> With so many training planes in the BAF why the PDF posters, specially the @TopCat is unhappy? Why should he think that BAF needs only training planes, but not the combat ones? I think, he has issue with the BAF Chief? I suspect, somehow they are related as Bhaira, and many Bhairas do not like each other.



training is not just hardware - training aircraft. it is software - culture, tactics, strategy, trained pilots and eco-system

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Ahem BNP AHEM...
> old pilots retired to the point there was no more fighter pilots, old pilots serve extra or their career was extended for training of new pilots,
> Also the scrutinizing is more in BAF compared to army or navy when selecting cadets, a little problem here and there and they reject applicants, I know an applicant who got rejected because he was 3 lbs less than the mandated requirement... like cmon -_-




BNP at fault no doubt... but politicians aside BAF can not be absolved in this mess.... they are not passive players here. What was the tactics hope for the best and let capacity degrade? I am in agreement with everything you said.



UKBengali said:


> Not immediately in 2009 but by end of first term in 2014 would have been ok.
> I know that things like electricity that was totally messed up by BNP and infrastructure like
> Padma Bridge( World Bank played dirty tricks over the funding and so BD had to go it alone),
> had to take priority but BD could have found 2 billion US dollars over several years from 2014 onwards to purchase that squadron of 4+ gen fighters. I am sure that with a BAF that could take on MAF, Barmans would have thought twice before pushing out Rohingyas,




Absolutely you let yourself become weak beyond a point and the animals will attack. Lessons hopefully has been learnt. Rohingya issue is squarely BDs fault... the bandors would never have dared otherwise.... they still won’t if BD show some spine. We are allowing dangerous precedent to be created .

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## Avicenna

Do you guys think the recent purchases of radar, trainers and building Sylhet and Barisal air bases are evidence of upgradation of infrastructure before actual fighter purchases?

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## wiseone2

mb444 said:


> BNP at fault no doubt... but politicians aside BAF can not be absolved in this mess.... they are not passive players here. What was the tactics hope for the best and let capacity degrade? I am in agreement with everything you said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely you let yourself become weak beyond a point and the animals will attack. Lessons hopefully has been learnt. Rohingya issue is squarely BDs fault... the bandors would never have dared otherwise.... they still won’t if BD show some spine. We are allowing dangerous precedent to be created .



your ability to attack myanmar is near zero. whining at the BAF will not solve anything
whether you like it or not you cannot intervene in Arakan which belongs to Myanmar
even in the future myanmar can raise the cost of intervention

it is simple arithmetic - 700,000 rohingyas or 165 million Bangladeshis

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## bluesky

wiseone2 said:


> training is not just hardware - training aircraft. it is software - culture, tactics, strategy, trained pilots and eco-system


Thanks for your expert talking. Do you Indians think our BAF training curriculum does not include what you said and more as well?

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## UKBengali

wiseone2 said:


> your ability to attack myanmar is near zero. whining at the BAF will not solve anything
> whether you like it or not you cannot intervene in Arakan which belongs to Myanmar
> even in the future myanmar can raise the cost of intervention
> 
> it is simple arithmetic - 700,000 rohingyas or 165 million Bangladeshis



BD has 3.5x larger economy and is building a strong military.
Myanmar is tiny,multi- ethnic mess that will be dealt with like all savages are.


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## wiseone2

UKBengali said:


> BD has 3.5x larger economy and is building a strong military.
> Myanmar is tiny,multi- ethnic mess that will be dealt with like all savages are.



USA has an economy 3.5x of Russia. Ignoring nukes for a moment USA cannot conquer Russia easily 

You are assuming Bangladesh is capable of launching military offensives. You are assuming Myanmar cannot hurt Bangladeshi maritime trade. You are assuming India and China stay out of the fray.



bluesky said:


> Thanks for your expert talking. Do you Indians think our BAF training curriculum does not include what you said and more as well?



your budget was tiny in the past. what makes you think there was any institutional memory of an air force should be ?

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## Aung Zaya

UKBengali said:


> BD has 3.5x larger economy and is building a strong military.
> Myanmar is tiny,multi- ethnic mess that will be dealt with like all savages are.


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## Species

wiseone2 said:


> USA has an economy 3.5x of Russia. Ignoring nukes for a moment USA cannot conquer Russia easily
> 
> You are assuming Bangladesh is capable of launching military offensives. You are assuming Myanmar cannot hurt Bangladeshi maritime trade. You are assuming India and China stay out of the fray.
> 
> 
> 
> your budget was tiny in the past. what makes you think there was any institutional memory of an air force should be ?



We have dealt with Myanmar before and everytime they had to bear a humiliating defeat. Heck, we even saved their asses from their own rebels like Arakan Army multiple times.

It's true that we have ignored our military all these years but Myanmar's only advantage is its a Chinese satellite state, hence we cannot touch it. Now, its only Beijing that we have to talk to solve any issues we have with Myanmar and that's how we are approaching.

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## Homo Sapiens

Species said:


> Now, its only Beijing that we have to talk to solve any issues we have with Myanmar and that's how we are approaching


Exactly, burma is now in the iron grip of Beijing. It's remaining lace of sovereignty is eroding day by day as well. So we have to negotiate with China directly to solve the Rohingya crisis.

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## Michael Corleone

wiseone2 said:


> your ability to attack myanmar is near zero. whining at the BAF will not solve anything
> whether you like it or not you cannot intervene in Arakan which belongs to Myanmar
> even in the future myanmar can raise the cost of intervention
> 
> it is simple arithmetic - 700,000 rohingyas or 165 million Bangladeshis


Let’s be real here. Your ability to attack Pakistan, China or Bangladesh is absolute zero too. But China did attack y’all and won in 62 didn’t they!?

We never think of “attacking” others, our posture is deterrence.

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## UKBengali

wiseone2 said:


> USA has an economy 3.5x of Russia. Ignoring nukes for a moment USA cannot conquer Russia easily
> 
> You are assuming Bangladesh is capable of launching military offensives. You are assuming Myanmar cannot hurt Bangladeshi maritime trade. You are assuming India and China stay out of the fray.




So you are comparing BD versus Myanmar with USA versus Russia? 

USA and Russia share no land border and the closest is between Alaska and Siberia, which will require a sea crossing and traversing thousands of square kms of land in order to reach major population centres.
With no nukes USA can conquer any country bar China. Russian army is no match for the US army. In a protracted war USA will win due to much larger economy and industrial production capability.

BN is far far superior to MN. You do know that BD has two submarines while MN has zero? Also BN is the only one of the two navies that has proper SAM systems on 3 of it's ships. 2 more Type-056 corvettes(FL-3000N SAM) with upgraded radars will join BN this year to widen the lead even further.

Like BD posters have said, China is the key player here as Myanmar is a Chinese satellite now. BD can conquer northern Arakan in a few years once the BAF has received 1-2 squadrons of new fighters and the MRSAM systems are ready but it may not do so as it prefers a diplomatic solution with China over this.


PS - India is irrelevant and in this.


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## Arthur

Guys, are people stupid or something?

This endian is provoking you to derail this thread & you people are helping him by responding to his bs. 

Please stay on topic!

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Do you guys think the recent purchases of radar, trainers and building Sylhet and Barisal air bases are evidence of upgradation of infrastructure before actual fighter purchases?


Yes. They would need a lot of space for new fighter squadrons. Till now air force has no dedicated air base & shares infrastructure with civil aviation. 

But this is not an ideal situation. Air force needs at least 2 dedicated airbases to carry out daily operations smoothly.

Shamshernagar air base will be the first dedicated air force base. Barisal would still share infrastructure with civil airport, but as passenger flights are not using this airport, that won't be a big problem. I hope in future they will built a air base in Tangail.

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## Aung Zaya

UKBengali said:


> BN is far far superior to MN. You do know that BD has two submarines while MN has zero?


lol far far superior ? with this rusty noisy sub can make zero effect to MN. 


UKBengali said:


> BN is the only one of the two navies that has proper SAM systems on 3 of it's ships. 2 more Type-056 corvettes(FL-3000N SAM) with upgraded radars will join BN this year to widen the lead even further.


 just check what the naval expert penguin said.  

















How about BD's tiny Af ?  even no need to compare. just a sitting deck before Myanmar's SU 30SME.


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## Arthur

The Ronin said:


> Heard Cox's Bazaar will be dedicated air base too, is it true?


It will have necessary infrastructure to support air force operations but it will share the same runway with the airport. So still not a dedicated air base. Much like the Dhaka or Chittagong base. But Gov. has plan to built a dedicated air base in Chittagong Hill Tracks. So nothing to worry about.


The Ronin said:


> Where? Where?? I don't see any.  You're jumping too early. And try to keep in mind the difference between frigate and corvette. In that case your frigate has shitty air-defense than our old Ulsan class


Don't respond to a troll, bro.

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## UKBengali

Khan saheb said:


> It will have necessary infrastructure to support air force operations but it will share the same runway with the airport. So still not a dedicated air base. Much like the Dhaka or Chittagong base. But Gov. has plan to built a dedicated air base in Chittagong Hill Tracks. So nothing to worry about.




I do not think that there is any point in housing all BAF aircraft in dedicated air-bases as they are expensive to build and require a lot of land in densely populated country like BD.
In times of war, the airports where miltary planes are located will naturally be solely used by the air-force to fly combat missions from. I would prefer that fighters are taken away from major airports like Dhaka and Chittagong and moved to other airports or placed in dedicated airbases.

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## ghost250

Aung Zaya said:


> lol far far superior ? with this rusty noisy sub can make zero effect to MN.
> 
> just check what the naval expert penguin said.
> 
> View attachment 463109
> 
> 
> View attachment 463108
> 
> 
> View attachment 463110
> 
> 
> How about BD's tiny Af ?  even no need to compare. just a sitting deck before Myanmar's SU 30SME.


yes,u can call those sub whatever u want..but those subs can send ur whole manpad navy to stone age..now dont tell me that u rnow building chuppa duppa 135m frigate or buying invisible kilo class submarine!!

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## Aung Zaya

shourov323 said:


> yes,u can call those sub whatever u want..but those subs can send ur whole manpad navy to stone age..now dont tell me that u rnow building chuppa duppa 135m frigate or buying invisible kilo class submarine!!


lol but how.? the satellite image of 135m F15 construction and training for kilo class are already posted in Myanmar defense forum. go and check. it's more solid evidence than any other dreams of ur Su30 , MiG35 tot ( lol ) ,J10.
go and get first urs before u're talking about the others. 



The Ronin said:


> Where? Where?? I don't see any.  You're jumping too early.


i dont see ur 4th corvette as well what Ukbangali said.


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## The Ronin

Aung Zaya said:


> i dont see ur 4th corvette as well what Ukbangali said.



Your first comment already proved that you're an A**HOLE!! There was no need to prove it in your second comment again!! Those corvettes were ordered at least 2 years ago, their delivery time is close. If there's already 3rd corvette's picture is available then it's not hard to assume that the 4th one is almost ready to. Maybe the paint-job isn't finished yet. @cirr will wake you up as soon as he gets the pic, ok? On the other hand the news about your Su-30SME was published only few months ago. No one know if the construction has started yet or not. Even if it does it will take at least two years to deliver. In the meantime will order 16 fighters this year too while the tender deadline for 8+4 MRCA has passed already. BAF's delegation team and foreign minster is already in Moscow. Something about MRCA procurement might happen. So yeah, keep dreaming about BAF's fighter being duck against suppa pawa Burmese Su-30.

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## wiseone2

Michael Corleone said:


> Let’s be real here. Your ability to attack Pakistan, China or Bangladesh is absolute zero too. But China did attack y’all and won in 62 didn’t they!?
> 
> We never think of “attacking” others, our posture is deterrence.



Deterrence ?? Do you think your puny air force will deter Myanmar from slaughtering Rohingyas ?

We attacked Pakistan in 1971 and broke it into two. Did you forget how Bangladesh was born ?



Species said:


> We have dealt with Myanmar before and everytime they had to bear a humiliating defeat. Heck, we even saved their asses from their own rebels like Arakan Army multiple times.
> 
> It's true that we have ignored our military all these years but Myanmar's only advantage is its a Chinese satellite state, hence we cannot touch it. Now, its only Beijing that we have to talk to solve any issues we have with Myanmar and that's how we are approaching.



Myanmar is not a Chinese satellite. The military generals run the country they seem fit. They have multiple choices for partners - China, India, USA, ASEAN and Russia.

Keep dreaming if you think you are going to get the Chinese do your wet jobs for you



shourov323 said:


> yes,u can call those sub whatever u want..but those subs can send ur whole manpad navy to stone age..now dont tell me that u rnow building chuppa duppa 135m frigate or buying invisible kilo class submarine!!



having submarines is one thing. operating them is another. using them in effective naval war is a third level.


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## Species

wiseone2 said:


> Myanmar is not a Chinese satellite. The military generals run the country they seem fit. They have multiple choices for partners - China, India, USA, ASEAN and Russia.
> 
> Keep dreaming if you think you are going to get the Chinese do your wet jobs for you



Well, okay if you say so. 

Meanwhile, *Why is Myanmar seeking more time to sign 3-nation vehicle pact?*

Myanmar is completely inside China's orbit and India is a nobody here. They thought they could get away from China's grip but the Northern offensive by the rebels made them to rethink.

You could analyze the Rohingya issue as well, China is the one mediating the crisis between us, India is nowhere to be seen. It's in China's interest to solve the crisis as soon as possible because they have investments on both sides of the border. 

You can of course think otherwise if it makes you sleep better. In my opinion, India should just give up these meaningless geopolitical ambitions considering its limited strength and better concentrate on raising the living standard of its huge population in abject poverty.

Let's not derail the thread further.

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## wiseone2

Species said:


> Well, okay if you say so.
> 
> Meanwhile, *Why is Myanmar seeking more time to sign 3-nation vehicle pact?*
> 
> Myanmar is completely inside China's orbit and India is a nobody here. They thought they could get away from China's grip but the Northern offensive by the rebels made them to rethink.
> 
> You could analyze the Rohingya issue as well, China is the one mediating the crisis between us, India is nowhere to be seen. It's in China's interest to solve the crisis as soon as possible because they have investments on both sides of the border.
> 
> You can of course think otherwise if it makes you sleep better. In my opinion, India should just give up these meaningless geopolitical ambitions considering its limited strength and better concentrate on raising the living standard of its huge population in abject poverty.
> 
> Let's not derail the thread further.



Cut the Crap dude
at the end of the day Myanmar has blatantly kicked out hundreds of thousand of Rohingyas. What has China done for Bangladesh ? Veto UN Security Council resolution. Those people are never returning their homes in Myanmar. They are never getting their rights as Burmese citizens. Tell me what exactly is China mediating. The only peace that is negotiated is the peace of the graveyard.

Myanmar generals run the show. Chinese are tolerated because they do not interfere in internal affairs of Myanmar or they interfere the least. The moment they interfere they are out.


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## Species

wiseone2 said:


> Cut the Crap dude
> at the end of the day Myanmar has blatantly kicked out hundreds of thousand of Rohingyas. What has China done for Bangladesh ? Veto UN Security Council resolution. Those people are never returning their homes in Myanmar. They are never getting their rights as Burmese citizens. Tell me what exactly is China mediating. The only peace that is negotiated is the peace of the graveyard.
> 
> Myanmar generals run the show. Chinese are tolerated because they do not interfere in internal affairs of Myanmar or they interfere the least. The moment they interfere they are out.



Lol, you have no idea what's going on in the region, better keep it that way.

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## wiseone2

Species said:


> Lol, you have no idea what's going on in the region, better keep it that way.



what has China done for the Rohingyas ??


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## UKBengali

wiseone2 said:


> Cut the Crap dude
> at the end of the day Myanmar has blatantly kicked out hundreds of thousand of Rohingyas. What has China done for Bangladesh ? Veto UN Security Council resolution. Those people are never returning their homes in Myanmar. They are never getting their rights as Burmese citizens. Tell me what exactly is China mediating. The only peace that is negotiated is the peace of the graveyard.
> 
> Myanmar generals run the show. Chinese are tolerated because they do not interfere in internal affairs of Myanmar or they interfere the least. The moment they interfere they are out.




You aware that Myanmar is a total Western Pariah now?
Without China it will suffer total economic collapse.


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## wiseone2

UKBengali said:


> You aware that Myanmar is a total Western Pariah now?
> Without China it will suffer total economic collapse.



Look at the entire history of Myanmar. When has Myanmar ever been on good terms with the West ??

At the end of the day ASEAN, China, Russia, India and even Bangladesh are trading with Myanmar


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## UKBengali

wiseone2 said:


> Look at the entire history of Myanmar. When has Myanmar ever been on good terms with the West ??
> 
> At the end of the day ASEAN, China, Russia, India and even Bangladesh are trading with Myanmar



Point stands that Myanmar is a Chinese satellite.

It's exports to China are no less than 50% of total exports and China is also the far the largest investor in Myanmar. Only China has saved Myanmar from devastating UN sanctions as Russia is just following China's lead on the matter.

So how is Myanmar not a Chinese satellite dude?

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## Michael Corleone

wiseone2 said:


> We attacked Pakistan in 1971 and broke it into two. Did you forget how Bangladesh was born ?


16 days of Indian participation didn’t change the fighting that went on for 8 months.

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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> Your first comment already proved that you're an A**HOLE!! There was no need to prove it in your second comment again!! Those corvettes were ordered at least 2 years ago, their delivery time is close. If there's already 3rd corvette's picture is available then it's not hard to assume that the 4th one is almost ready to. Maybe the paint-job isn't finished yet. @cirr will wake you up as soon as he gets the pic, ok? On the other hand the news about your Su-30SME was published only few months ago. No one know if the construction has started yet or not. Even if it does it will take at least two years to deliver. In the meantime will order 16 fighters this year too while the tender deadline for 8+4 MRCA has passed already. BAF's delegation team and foreign minster is already in Moscow. Something about MRCA procurement might happen. So yeah, keep dreaming about BAF's fighter being duck against suppa pawa Burmese Su-30.


the most important point is that these ships already arrived BD or not. idiot!! the status like building or not is not very different as u dont have them in hand. 
oh.!! yes. ur baf chief is going to England. getting typhoons. and again to China, getting J-10 and now again moscow ? 
BTW , how about LY-80 ? BD delegation arrived China for LY-80 since 2014 according to BD defence forum's news. now they have not come back since then ? 


The Ronin said:


> So yeah, keep dreaming about BAF's fighter being duck against suppa pawa Burmese Su-30.


lol then so ur talkings like our navy got destroyed by grandpa subs is beyond dreaming.

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## Arthur

Aung Zaya said:


> the most important point is that these ships already arrived BD or not. idiot!! the status like building or not is not very different as u dont have them in hand.
> oh.!! yes. ur baf chief is going to England. getting typhoons. and again to China, getting J-10 and now again moscow ?
> BTW , how about LY-80 ? BD delegation arrived China for LY-80 since 2014 according to BD defence forum's news. now they have not come back since then ?
> 
> lol then so ur talkings like our navy got destroyed by grandpa subs is beyond dreaming.


LoL! Monkey jumping lile a monkey!
Listen dumbass comeback when your suppa duppa manpad corvettes,subs and rusty decade old secondhand sukhois arrive. now don't troll in this thread.

Shhuu! shhuu!



wiseone2 said:


> it is fine to make fun of myanmar navy. the bangladesh navy is no better as a practical matter.


My point is very simple @umbone2.

Not interested in phallus measuring. This is a sticky thread & those who don't have anything constructive to share, are welcome not to come back.

Now shuu!

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## Homo Sapiens

@wiseone2 @Khan saheb @UKBengali @Species @shourov323 @Michael Corleone some significant developments you guys are missing here.According to a recent report of SIPRI, Bangladesh for the first time in history entered among the top 20 major arms importer in the world. Bangladesh(19th) now import 1.5 percent of all arms sold in the world in 2012-2016 period.This share is 5 times more than previous 5 years(2007-2011). In 2007-2011 period the global share in arms import was just 0.3 for Bangladesh. And was nowhere near top 20. It is the 2nd fastest growth in the world after Oman. And the things is just going to accelerate in the coming years.I would not be surprised if BD enters among the top 10 arms importer by 2025-2030 period.

And not only import, we are putting much emphasize on building arms indigenously.Many indigenous arms production for army and navy is going on in BOF and various shipyards.One significant development in this sector is, govt. decided to export arms after a nearly 30 years gap. So it looks like govt. is sincere to see a vibrant indigenous defence industry.Even though we are late in arms manufacturing, we are progressing fast.

In the last 5 years, army expanded from 7 division to 10 division thus fulfilling our target of a 10 division strong army.Only thing left is to strengthen some of the under strength division with adequate manpower and equipments.This is in line of our defence strategy to maintain a 10 division strong active army and a reserve force of 1 million personnels.Unlike Indian or burmese army which are bulky and under equipped compare to it's number of personnel(only good for eating defence budget in form of salary and pension thus limiting the option of weapon purchase), Bangladesh army is going to be a leaner, smarter and flexible fighting forces rich in firepower and backed up by a vast reserve of trained fighting men.

These points indicate that, BD is going to be a serious military power in the near future capable of defending against any enemy attack successfully.

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## UKBengali

@Homo Sapiens : I have noticed that BD share of world imports had risen 5 times in the 2012-2016 period compared to 5 years before.

Too many posters do not understand that it will really take till 2030 to have a modernised BD military since BD is coming from such a low base.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Your first comment already proved that you're an A**HOLE!! There was no need to prove it in your second comment again!! Those corvettes were ordered at least 2 years ago, their delivery time is close. If there's already 3rd corvette's picture is available then it's not hard to assume that the 4th one is almost ready to. Maybe the paint-job isn't finished yet. @cirr will wake you up as soon as he gets the pic, ok? On the other hand the news about your Su-30SME was published only few months ago. No one know if the construction has started yet or not. Even if it does it will take at least two years to deliver. In the meantime will order 16 fighters this year too while the tender deadline for 8+4 MRCA has passed already. BAF's delegation team and foreign minster is already in Moscow. Something about MRCA procurement might happen. So yeah, keep dreaming about BAF's fighter being duck against suppa pawa Burmese Su-30.



Indian rejected airframes. Yep. Those six are those exact airframes 


wiseone2 said:


> who knows ?? you could have fought for 8 decades and still be beating the crap of each other


like the fighting in your homelands Kashmir!? Bitch please

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## Homo Sapiens

wiseone2 said:


> Explain to me why the Bangladeshi army will avoid the Indian army fate of money spent on salary, pensions. The Indian army is by no means under-equipped.


Indian army is bulky and under equipped in comparison to the size and a big portion of it's budget is going to salary and pension.This is not my personal opinion but the opinion of respected defence analysts.


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## The Ronin



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## Michael Corleone

Homo Sapiens said:


> Indian army is bulky and under equipped in comparison to the size and a big portion of it's budget is going to salary and pension.This is not my personal opinion but the opinion of respected defence analysts.


And their chiefs themselves say they don’t have ammo and shit

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## Homo Sapiens

Michael Corleone said:


> And their chiefs themselves say they don’t have ammo and shit


They have only 10 days worth of ammunition according to the statement of army chief.

While Bangladesh may not have enough heavy weapon(Tanks, APC, Artillery, MRLS) in the army, but in small arms and ammunition, it has in excess of need which we are seeking to export.Read these report.


*বাংলাদেশ থেকে রপ্তানি হবে অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ*
https://www.dailymail24.com/2017/07/31/

বাংলাদেশ এবার অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানিতে আগ্রহী। ছোট অস্ত্র রপ্তানির জন্য প্রস্তুত আছে বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনী। বাংলাদেশ সমরাস্ত্র কারখানা (বিওএফ) কর্তৃক উৎপাদিত অস্ত্র, গোলাবারুদ এবং বিস্ফোরক রপ্তানি করার বিষয়ে প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয় বাণিজ্য মন্ত্রণালয়ের কাছে মতামতসহ রপ্তানি প্রক্রিয়াকরণ পদ্ধতি সম্পর্কে অবহিত করার অনুরোধ জানিয়েছে। এখন শুধু সরকারের পণ্য রপ্তানির তালিকায় ক্ষুদ্রাস্ত্র ও গুলির নাম যোগ হবার অপেক্ষা, তাহলেই শুরু হবে রপ্তানি।


*বাংলাদেশ সমরাস্ত্র কারখানা-বিওএফ দেশের অস্ত্র তৈরির একমাত্র প্রতিষ্ঠান। গত ২১ মে প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয় পরিদর্শন করেন। এ সময় বিওএফ কর্তৃপক্ষ প্রধানমন্ত্রীকে অবহিত করে, বর্তমানে যে পরিমাণ অস্ত্র, বিস্ফোরক ও গোলাবারুদ উৎপাদন হচ্ছে তা দেশের অভ্যন্তরীণ চাহিদা পূরণ করে উদ্বৃত্ত থাকে।* এই প্রতিষ্ঠান অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানির অনুমোদন চেয়ে আবেদন করেছিলো বাণিজ্য মন্ত্রণালয়ে। আওয়ামী লীগের আগের সরকারের আমলে প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয় সম্পর্কিত সংসদীয় স্থায়ী কমিটি অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানিতে অনুমোদন দিয়েছিল। ওই ধারাবাহিকতায় পরে অনুমোদন দেয় সেনা সদর ও সরকার।

জাতিগত সহিংসতায় ক্ষতবিক্ষত আফ্রিকার বিভিন্ন দেশে শান্তি রক্ষায় কাজ করছে বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনী। বেশ কয়েকটি দেশের বাহিনীকে আধুনিকায়নের কাজও করছে বাংলাদেশ। ওই দেশগুলোতে রপ্তানির সুযোগ বেশি। ১৯৮৪ সালে প্রথমবারের মতো অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানি করে বাংলাদেশ আয় করেছিলো চার কোটি ডলার। পরে অবশ্য অস্ত্র না রপ্তানির সিদ্ধান্ত হয়। এখন আবার রপ্তানি শুরু হলে দক্ষিণ এশিয়ায় ভারত-পাকিস্তানের পর বাংলাদেশ হবে অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানিতে তৃতীয় দেশ।

*অস্ত্র-গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানি করতে চায় বাংলাদেশ*
http://www.prothomalo.com/bangladesh/article/193720/
*উদ্বৃত্ত অস্ত্র রপ্তানির প্রক্রিয়া শুরু*
https://www.bdsuccess.org/2015/08/04/14/55/8005

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## Michael Corleone

Homo Sapiens said:


> They have only 10 days worth of ammunition according to the statement of army chief.
> 
> While Bangladesh may not have enough heavy weapon(Tanks, APC, Artillery, MRLS) in the army, but in small arms and ammunition, it has in excess of need which we are seeking to export.Read these report.
> 
> 
> *বাংলাদেশ থেকে রপ্তানি হবে অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ*
> https://www.dailymail24.com/2017/07/31/
> 
> বাংলাদেশ এবার অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানিতে আগ্রহী। ছোট অস্ত্র রপ্তানির জন্য প্রস্তুত আছে বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনী। বাংলাদেশ সমরাস্ত্র কারখানা (বিওএফ) কর্তৃক উৎপাদিত অস্ত্র, গোলাবারুদ এবং বিস্ফোরক রপ্তানি করার বিষয়ে প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয় বাণিজ্য মন্ত্রণালয়ের কাছে মতামতসহ রপ্তানি প্রক্রিয়াকরণ পদ্ধতি সম্পর্কে অবহিত করার অনুরোধ জানিয়েছে। এখন শুধু সরকারের পণ্য রপ্তানির তালিকায় ক্ষুদ্রাস্ত্র ও গুলির নাম যোগ হবার অপেক্ষা, তাহলেই শুরু হবে রপ্তানি।
> 
> 
> *বাংলাদেশ সমরাস্ত্র কারখানা-বিওএফ দেশের অস্ত্র তৈরির একমাত্র প্রতিষ্ঠান। গত ২১ মে প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয় পরিদর্শন করেন। এ সময় বিওএফ কর্তৃপক্ষ প্রধানমন্ত্রীকে অবহিত করে, বর্তমানে যে পরিমাণ অস্ত্র, বিস্ফোরক ও গোলাবারুদ উৎপাদন হচ্ছে তা দেশের অভ্যন্তরীণ চাহিদা পূরণ করে উদ্বৃত্ত থাকে।* এই প্রতিষ্ঠান অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানির অনুমোদন চেয়ে আবেদন করেছিলো বাণিজ্য মন্ত্রণালয়ে। আওয়ামী লীগের আগের সরকারের আমলে প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয় সম্পর্কিত সংসদীয় স্থায়ী কমিটি অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানিতে অনুমোদন দিয়েছিল। ওই ধারাবাহিকতায় পরে অনুমোদন দেয় সেনা সদর ও সরকার।
> 
> জাতিগত সহিংসতায় ক্ষতবিক্ষত আফ্রিকার বিভিন্ন দেশে শান্তি রক্ষায় কাজ করছে বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনী। বেশ কয়েকটি দেশের বাহিনীকে আধুনিকায়নের কাজও করছে বাংলাদেশ। ওই দেশগুলোতে রপ্তানির সুযোগ বেশি। ১৯৮৪ সালে প্রথমবারের মতো অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানি করে বাংলাদেশ আয় করেছিলো চার কোটি ডলার। পরে অবশ্য অস্ত্র না রপ্তানির সিদ্ধান্ত হয়। এখন আবার রপ্তানি শুরু হলে দক্ষিণ এশিয়ায় ভারত-পাকিস্তানের পর বাংলাদেশ হবে অস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানিতে তৃতীয় দেশ।
> 
> *অস্ত্র-গোলাবারুদ রপ্তানি করতে চায় বাংলাদেশ*
> http://www.prothomalo.com/bangladesh/article/193720/
> *উদ্বৃত্ত অস্ত্র রপ্তানির প্রক্রিয়া শুরু*
> https://www.bdsuccess.org/2015/08/04/14/55/8005


Yeah, I mean the trainees in academy are now given extra ammos just to finish off the reserve because they too have shelf lives... although bullets etc are all around 5 year old in reserve garrisons

Also there was a report last year that they would slow down or stop bd-08 rifle production because of the excess amount it has been produced till date.

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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> Yeah, I mean the trainees in academy are now given extra ammos just to finish off the reserve because they too have shelf lives... although bullets etc are all around 5 year old in reserve garrisons
> 
> Also there was a report last year that they would slow down or stop bd-08 rifle production because of the excess amount it has been produced till date.


BOF previously produced 10,000 rifles per production run. Now they had reduced the rate to 5,000 rifles per production run.
All the old SKS rifles in service with BA,BN,BAF was replaced with BD-08. Though BOF can still produce type 56 assault rifles.

There is still a large number of old SKS and Type 56AR in service with BGB, Police & Ansar. And none of them are pleased with these old rifles anymore. These old rifles needs to be replaced immediately. Gov. should have maintained the previous manufacturing rate & replaced all of those old rifles in service.

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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> BOF previously produced 10,000 rifles per production run. Now they had reduced the rate to 5,000 rifles per production run.
> All the old SKS rifles in service with BA,BN,BAF was replaced with BD-08. Though BOF can still produce type 56 assault rifles.
> 
> There is still a large number of old SKS and Type 56AR in service with BGB, Police & Ansar. And none of them are pleased with this old rifles anymore. This old rifles needs to be replaced immediately. Gov. should have maintained the previous manufacturing rate & replaced all of those old rifles in service.


Yes I wonder why they slowed the productions when they could have replaced those ww2 era stuff at a faster rate.

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## mb444

Homo Sapiens said:


> @wiseone2 @Khan saheb @UKBengali @Species @shourov323 @Michael Corleone some significant developments you guys are missing here.According to a recent report of SIPRI, Bangladesh for the first time in history entered among the top 20 major arms importer in the world. Bangladesh(19th) now import 1.5 percent of all arms sold in the world in 2012-2016 period.This share is 5 times more than previous 5 years(2007-2011). In 2007-2011 period the global share in arms import was just 0.3 for Bangladesh. And was nowhere near top 20. It is the 2nd fastest growth in the world after Oman. And the things is just going to accelerate in the coming years.I would not be surprised if BD enters among the top 10 arms importer by 2025-2030 period.
> 
> And not only import, we are putting much emphasize on building arms indigenously.Many indigenous arms production for army and navy is going on in BOF and various shipyards.One significant development in this sector is, govt. decided to export arms after a nearly 30 years gap. So it looks like govt. is sincere to see a vibrant indigenous defence industry.Even though we are late in arms manufacturing, we are progressing fast.
> 
> In the last 5 years, army expanded from 7 division to 10 division thus fulfilling our target of a 10 division strong army.Only thing left is to strengthen some of the under strength division with adequate manpower and equipments.This is in line of our defence strategy to maintain a 10 division strong active army and a reserve force of 1 million personnels.Unlike Indian or burmese army which are bulky and under equipped compare to it's number of personnel(only good for eating defence budget in form of salary and pension thus limiting the option of weapon purchase), Bangladesh army is going to be a leaner, smarter and flexible fighting forces rich in firepower and backed up by a vast reserve of trained fighting men.
> 
> These points indicate that, BD is going to be a serious military power in the near future capable of defending against any enemy attack successfully.



Hope so dude.


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## Bilal9

wiseone2 said:


> We attacked Pakistan in 1971 and broke it into two. Did you forget how Bangladesh was born ?



If we didn't bring the Pakistani army to its knees from March until December 1971 using guerrilla warfare, it would have taken IA at least three years to make PA in the East surrender. Read Manekshaw's bio please...he had enough respect for the Muktis, however Sanghis are very adept at the chest-beating part.

Nice move to score an easy goal when there is no one to oppose...PA was confined to their barracks by December...

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> If we didn't bring the Pakistani army to its knees from March until December 1971 using guerrilla warfare, it would have taken IA at least three years to make PA in the East surrender. Read Manekshaw's bio please...he had enough respect for the Muktis, however Sanghis are very adept at the chest-beating part.
> 
> Nice move to score an easy goal when there is no one to oppose...PA was confined to their barracks by December...


Heck he even respected the valiant ways pak soldiers fought. They didn’t give up until the last bullet

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## Nilgiri

Bilal9 said:


> Read Manekshaw's bio please...he had enough respect for the Muktis,



Listen here you effeminate twink, don't ever bring up Manekshaw whenever it suits you this way when you cried and bitched about him otherwise. You inconsistent hypocritical craphead.



Bilal9 said:


> Manekshaw was such a coward



@DESERT FIGHTER see what I mean about them being this way inherently? They have no solid backbone on any of their positions/history/demeanour....and they thus have to beg for credibility and approval from everyone else.

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## Avicenna

Any news on any fighter purchases? Its been SEVERAL weeks.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Any news on any fighter purchases? Its been SEVERAL weeks.




I think it is fairly safe to conclude that no fighters have been bought.

They eventually will be bought and the models chosen and numbers would pose zero threat to anyone and will not serve BD interest. 

I am betting on a lot more yaks, transport planes and toothless VIP transport helios before any fighter purchase. I would not be surprised if we end up purchasing some more 3rd generation second hand garbage for somewhere. I think it is safe to conclude that BAL will not take steps to raise BD heads or equip our forces with anything that actually increases our capacity.

Meanwhile the fat f**k that runs BAF will get fatter and would probably soon need the likes of a C130 to move around.

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## TopCat

mb444 said:


> I think it is fairly safe to conclude that no fighters have been bought.
> 
> They eventually will be bought and the models chosen and numbers would pose zero threat to anyone and will not serve BD interest.
> 
> I am betting on a lot more yaks, transport planes and toothless VIP transport helios before any fighter purchase. I would not be surprised if we end up purchasing some more 3rd generation second hand garbage for somewhere. I think it is safe to conclude that BAL will not take steps to raise BD heads or equip our forces with anything that actually increases our capacity.
> 
> Meanwhile the fat f**k that runs BAF will get fatter and would probably soon need the likes of a C130 to move around.



BD will not go to purchase any strategic fighter before the election only to ire the Indian backing for the AL. Submarine itself was too big of a fish for them to swallow.
@BDforever knows the secret.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> BD will not go to purchase any strategic fighter before the election only to ire the Indian backing for the AL. Submarine itself was too big of a fish for them to swallow.
> @BDforever knows the secret.



AL no longer needs Indian backing.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> AL no longer needs Indian backing.


You are wrong. They will stage a sham election with a lots of rigging. They only country they will be banking on are India and China once western pressure builds on.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> You are wrong. They will stage a sham election with a lots of rigging. They only country they will be banking on are India and China once western pressure builds on.




Really?
Who in their right mind will vote for the BNP?
BD people are getting jobs and power. What can BNP offer?

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## Centaur

UKBengali said:


> What can BNP offer?


Loadsheding with barking of উন্নয়নের জোয়ারে দেশ ভাইসা যাইতাছে !

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## UKBengali

Centaur said:


> Loadsheding with barking of উন্নয়নের জোয়ারে দেশ ভাইসা যাইতাছে !




We are going off-topic but the Indians would probably prefer for BNP to come into power.
A weak BD is in their interests after-all.

On topic: BAF was only given the required funds last year and it usually takes 18-24 months for a contract to be signed.
I am expecting deals towards the latter part of this year or early next year for fighter jets.

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## Centaur

UKBengali said:


> We are going off-topic but the Indians would probably prefer for BNP to come into power.
> *A weak BD is in their interests after-all.*


Exactly.


UKBengali said:


> On topic: BAF was only given the required funds last year and it usually takes 18-24 months for a contract to be signed.
> I am expecting deals towards the latter part of this year or early next year for fighter jets.


I am hopeful and I can wait even longer . Some folks here just spewing poison , talking about few weeks .
But planes are not toys that you buy with few thousands of taka . Since every plane cost nearly 50-60 million dollars, so probably we need lots of well trained pilots ,so we need trainers too in order to train pilots .
So before finishing pilot training what's the point of buying plane? These PDF guys don't want to understand that .

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Really?
> Who in their right mind will vote for the BNP?
> BD people are getting jobs and power. What can BNP offer?


You have no clue about the common mass... some people just vote some xyz only because they hate AL.
In fair election BNP will win land slide.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> You have no clue about the common mass... some people just vote some xyz only because they hate AL.
> In fair election BNP will win land slide.



Your evidence for this please?


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Your evidence for this please?


Since 2008, AL rigged every election including Upazilla/Union election. If they were that popular they would not had rigged election. Just wait for few days till Gazipur and Khulna city election. You will know.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Since 2008, AL rigged every election including Upazilla/Union election. If they were that popular they would not had rigged election. Just wait for few days till Gazipur and Khulna city election. You will know.



I do understand that AL used to rig elections but now there is no need for them to rig any elections
anymore.

The masses mainly care for food and electricity which they are getting now. The common man does not much care for freedom of speech in comparison

Why would they vote for BNP who had the distinction of constant power cuts? Do the masses have such bad memories?

Economy is just getting better and better and so you would have to be a die-hard BNP supporter and or hate AL so much to risk this all.


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## muhammadali233

UKBengali said:


> I do understand that AL used to rig elections but now there is no need for them to rig any elections
> anymore.
> 
> The masses mainly care for food and electricity which they are getting now. The common man does not much care for freedom of speech in comparison



Last time I read 1/3rd of Bangladesh don't have access to electricity so edit the masses part.


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## UKBengali

muhammadali233 said:


> Last time I read 1/3rd of Bangladesh don't have access to electricity so edit the masses part.



It is more like 1/6th now.
By end of decade the whole country will have access.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> I do understand that AL used to rig elections but now there is no need for them to rig any elections
> anymore.
> 
> The masses mainly care for food and electricity which they are getting now. The common man does not much care for freedom of speech in comparison
> 
> Why would they vote for BNP who had the distinction of constant power cuts? Do the masses have such bad memories?
> 
> Economy is just getting better and better and so you would have to be a die-hard BNP supporter and or hate AL so much to risk this all.


There are no shortage of die hard bnp supporter who were completely deprived. They will do anything to go back to power. AL will not take any chances.



UKBengali said:


> It is more like 1/6th now.
> By end of decade the whole country will have access.


100 percent electrification is just a matter of 2/3 years now. Massive expansion is going on

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> There are no shortage of die hard bnp supporter who were completely deprived. They will do anything to go back to power. AL will not take any chances.
> 
> 
> 100 percent electrification is just a matter of 2/3 years now. Massive expansion is going on



OK. I get your point but I still think that in a free and fair election AL will win.

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## Bilal9

Guys I gently suggest we get back to the topic after we answer Muhammadali Bhai. 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSEFQa6U8AAn1ag.jpg

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## Nilgiri

Good red pilling @TopCat . this is your better field compared to economics

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## Tanveer666

Bilal9 said:


> Guys I gently suggest we get back to the topic after we answer Muhammadali Bhai.
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSEFQa6U8AAn1ag.jpg




then why are we having load sheedings for 2-3 hours a day? I admit, things were fine for the last couple of years, but FROM this YEAR load sheddings are getting much more frequent; i wonder why.

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## 帅的一匹

Dear J10, when will you come to BAF?

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## Avicenna

wanglaokan said:


> Dear J10, when will you come to BAF?
> View attachment 465097
> View attachment 465098
> View attachment 465099



What a beautiful Chinese masterpiece!

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## bd_4_ever

So, did the fatso Chief get anything done in the meanwhile?

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## Bilal9

Tanveer666 said:


> then why are we having load sheedings for 2-3 hours a day? I admit, things were fine for the last couple of years, but this load sheddings are getting much more frequent; i wonder why.



load-shedding levels will go up and down, depending on how much power is being generated. For the near and mid-term at least Bangladesh will be power-starved because of massive ever-increasing industrial demand.

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## Arthur

Just to give yourself peace, don't expect anything to happen before the election. 

But the WINTEX-2019 will be VERY interesting. 

Regards.

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## mb444

Khan saheb said:


> Just to give you guys peace, don't expect anything to happen before the election.
> 
> But the WINTEX-2019 will be VERY interesting.
> 
> Regards.




I agree .... our yaks will blow everyone away with laughter....

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> I agree .... our yaks will blow everyone away with laughter....



Pun intended - or not?


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## bluesky

Tanveer666 said:


> then why are we having load sheedings for 2-3 hours a day? I admit, things were fine for the last couple of years, but this load sheddings are getting much more frequent; i wonder why.


No, you are imagining things. We must believe what Hasina, @UKBengali and @Bilal9 say. BD people are swimming inside abundant electricity.

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## Nilgiri

bluesky said:


> No, you are imagining things. We must believe what Hasina, @UKBengali and @Bilal9 say. BD people are swimming inside abundant electricity.



Bhadralok/Chotolok complex is strong in them.

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## bluesky

wanglaokan said:


> Dear J10, when will you come to BAF?
> View attachment 465097
> View attachment 465098
> View attachment 465099


Indians think, J-10s will not come to BAF.

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## Bilal9

bluesky said:


> Indians think, J-10s will not come to BAF.



Should most people in Bangladesh really care about what Indians think regarding our arms purchases?

Maybe not....

We should buy whatever fits our military doctrine.

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## Tanveer666

Bilal9 said:


> load-shedding levels will go up and down, depending on how much power is being generated. For the near and mid-term at least Bangladesh will be power-starved because of massive ever-increasing industrial demand.



yes, but from 2014-2015 onwards load shedding was greatly reduced, in fact in 2016 and 2017 it was virtually non existent. But these last couple of weeks load shedding was almost a daily occurrence.


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## Arthur

This thread is NOT about electricity, people. If we want a good forum environment, we should really learn how to not take baits. But being Bengalis, I think most of us still hasn't learned the craft. 

Anyway can we go back to the topic?

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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> yes, but from 2014-2015 onwards load shedding was greatly reduced, in fact in 2016 and 2017 it was virtually non existent. But these last couple of weeks load shedding was almost a daily occurrence.


Went to bd back in around 2005... shit the load shedding was like 22 hours 
Last time in 2016.... never had a power cut except when a generator blew up. Fixed in an hour.

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## Bilal9

Tanveer666 said:


> yes, but from 2014-2015 onwards load shedding was greatly reduced, in fact in 2016 and 2017 it was virtually non existent. But these last couple of weeks load shedding was almost a daily occurrence.



Bhai let's discuss this in a separate thread. Let's not derail this important thread.

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## Tanveer666

Bilal9 said:


> Bhai let's discuss this in a separate thread. Let's not derail this important thread.


yeah got a little carried away  ; my bad.

so @Khan Sahab bhai, no MRCA procurement until after the election? does this include the alleged j10 deal?

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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> yeah got a little carried away  ; my bad.
> 
> so @Khan Sahab bhai, no MRCA procurement until after the election? does this include the alleged j10 deal?


J-10 is done but what about the Russian one? Heard military delegation went to Moscow along with foreign minister... didn’t keep up with news after that.

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## Arthur

Tanveer666 said:


> yeah got a little carried away  ; my bad.
> 
> so @Khan Sahab bhai, no MRCA procurement until after the election? does this include the alleged j10 deal?


According to some BAL political higher ups, a foreign state is getting really restless with recent military development & next election. And BAL wants to maintain the support. So BAL has taken the policy of not to shake the boat too much.
But they will place the order immediately after they win the election (now don't ask me how they are so sure of winning :cough :cough).



Michael Corleone said:


> J-10 is done but what about the Russian one? Heard military delegation went to Moscow along with foreign minister... didn’t keep up with news after that.


They did. Nothing else after that. 

And if the BAF Commodore's comment is any indication a new fighter jet might participate in next years WINTEX. 

সবকিছুই এখন 'পাগলা নৌকা বেশি নাড়াইস না' মোডে চলতেছে! লল!

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## Tanveer666

Khan saheb said:


> According to some BAL political higher ups, a foreign state is getting really restless with recent military development & next election. And BAL wants to maintain the support. So BAL has taken the policy of not to shake the boat too much.
> But they will place the order immediately after they win the election (now don't ask me how they are so sure of winning :cough :cough).
> 
> 
> They did. Nothing else after that.
> 
> And if the BAF Commodore's *comment *is any indication a new fighter jet might participate in next years WINTEX.
> 
> সবকিছুই এখন 'পাগলা নৌকা বেশি নাড়াইস না' মোডে চলতেছে! লল!



what comment?


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## The Ronin

Well law minister did say we are gonna buy 16 jet this year whether it's MRCA or MMRCA, it will happen sure like the UAV procurement. His words about UAV procurement came true too. So lets wait few more months, there's still time before election.

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## The Ronin



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## 帅的一匹



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## Avicenna

What curves! Lovely!

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## Nilgiri

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 467077
> View attachment 467078



It is very good looking and capable platform must be said.

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> It is very good looking and capable platform must be said.



Word is that BD is getting 16 J-10Cs.

Would love to see J-10C of BAF duelling Rafale of IAF.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Word is that BD is getting 16 J-10Cs.
> 
> Would love to see J-10C of BAF duelling Rafale of IAF.



Word is, courtesy of Mr Will 

You'd love to see a great many things....how much of the fantasy is actually bourne out, you will see in the end.

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Armed Forces is keen to purchase T-129 attack helicopters from Turkey. DSA-2018 exhibition in Malaysia saw the powerful Defence Advisor to Bangladesh PM, Maj Gen Siddique discussing about purchase of different types of hardware with Leonardo. It included ASW helicopters, ASW aircraft, radar systems, transport/utility helicopters and attack helicopters.

PC- BD military.

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Armed Forces is keen to purchase A129 attack helicopters from Italy



What are we suppose to arm them with? Do Europeans have an alternative to Hellfire?


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=791708764366550







Tanveer666 said:


> What are we suppose to arm them with? Do Europeans have an alternative to Hellfire?



Spike-ER, UMTAS, OMTAS.


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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Spike-ER, UMTAS, OMTAS.



Spike = Israeli, so slim chance;

for the Turkish ones we might as well go procure it directly from turkey.

But I see your point.


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## The Ronin

Tanveer666 said:


> Spike = Israeli, so slim chance;



Army bought spike from Singapore long time ago. That's an old news.


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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Army bought spike from Singapore long time ago. That's an old news.


I thought those were in limited numbers


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## The Ronin

Tanveer666 said:


> I thought those were in limited numbers



Doesn't mean you can't get them i large quantity if you want. If Israel is ok with it then i don't see any problem.


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## monitor



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## 帅的一匹

https://view.inews.qq.com/a/20180418V10VD700?uid=8730528

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## Tanveer666

wanglaokan said:


> https://view.inews.qq.com/a/20180418V10VD700?uid=8730528


what is that?


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> what is that?


j-10c video in flash player


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## monitor




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## Bengal Tiger 71

monitor said:


> View attachment 467585


Why not procuring Mi 35, Mi 28, Apache attack helos.!!!


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## araberuni7

Indian just screwed Russia for big time. I can say that a big boot went into Vlad's arse. India withdraws from Su-57 AKA FGFA program. 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sukhoi-pak-fa-fgfa-updates-news-discussions.118201/page-187

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## Tanveer666

araberuni7 said:


> Indian just screwed Russia for big time. I can say that a big boot went into Vlad's arse. India withdraws from Su-57 AKA FGFA program.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sukhoi-pak-fa-fgfa-updates-news-discussions.118201/page-187




Its been a long time coming. They have been dissatisfied with the progress of FGFA project for quite a while.

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## TopCat

Tanveer666 said:


> Its been a long time coming. They have been dissatisfied with the progress of FGFA project for quite a while.


Actually they are not dissatisfied but India wanted a complete new technology to be transferred to them for very little money. I dont think any manufacturer will do that.

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## Tanveer666

The article clearly stated that Indians were dissatisfied.


TopCat said:


> Actually they are not dissatisfied


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## TopCat

Tanveer666 said:


> The article clearly stated that Indians were dissatisfied.


Grapes are sour. Then why were they pressing for TOT till the end when the technology is no good for them.

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## araberuni7

Actually Russian promised too much and delivered too little. Sukhoi admitted that Su-57 will be delivered with same engine as Su-35 until proposed engine pass the tests. Radar is another issue then stealth is questionable. Add to that the Su-57 is complex to manufacture and maintain. It takes weeks to replace a single Engine. Plus Russian never disclosed much details to India about technology.

Russian business strategy sucks. They promised Zhuk-AE to Egyptian Air Force but delivering MiG-35 with mechanically scanned legacy Zhuk phased array because Zhuk-AE is not production ready.
Meanwhile Modi meet his Swedish counterpart to discuss Gripen and other ToT. India had enough of Russian BS. No shame saying that we should learn from India when comes to dealing with Mafia gangs of the East.

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## Armchair

TopCat said:


> Grapes are sour. Then why were they pressing for TOT till the end when the technology is no good for them.



Exactly. Even F-16 wasn't good enough for them in the MRCA. Nothing is good enough for these holy cows. Glad Russia still milked their holyness for 250 million USD which is now a sunk cost. 

I hope Bangladesh Air Force can upgrade itself and become a viable force. Right now we only have a handful of MiG-29s and F-7s. 100 units of the FC-1 would be just what the doctor ordered.

More than that actually:
1. an integrated air defense networked c41
2. LRSAMs, at least 2 batteries
3. Something like the Pantsir


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## araberuni7

Armchair said:


> 3. Something like the Pantsir


Pantsir has a shitty target detection capability. Ask the Syrian!

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## Armchair

araberuni7 said:


> Pantsir has a shitty target detection capability. Ask the Syrian!


I did ask them. They say its an excellent system that shot down droves of enemy munitions.


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## araberuni7

Armchair said:


> I did ask them. They say its an excellent system that shot down droves of enemy munitions.


Syrian said that they fired 25 missile to shoot down 1 F-16I. So the hit ratio is 4%. If the SA-5 cannot detect a single missile or 1970s Tornado GR4 than WTF Pantsir can do.

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## Armchair

araberuni7 said:


> Syrian said that they fired 25 missile to shoot down 1 F-16I. So the hit ratio is 4%. If the SA-5 cannot detect a single missile or 1970s Tornado GR4 than WTF Pantsir can do.



Those were other systems not the Pantsir. The Pantsir works great.


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## TopCat

araberuni7 said:


> Syrian said that they fired 25 missile to shoot down 1 F-16I. So the hit ratio is 4%. If the SA-5 cannot detect a single missile or 1970s Tornado GR4 than WTF Pantsir can do.


Downing a plane is very hard when they fly too high and beyond the range of the SRSM. The reason Israel and USA dont want anybody to get a hand on S-300 which has the range to chase down a aircraft.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Tanveer666 said:


> The article clearly stated that Indians were dissatisfied.



this is what the Russian government media has to say about India..... 

*Press review: India's Russian submarine leak and Russia-US ties 'beyond repair'*
Press Review
November 09, 2017,

*Kommersant: Submarine scandal surfaces between Russia and India*
An unprecedented scandal broke out between Russia and India with Moscow suspecting that New Delhi granted US Navy representatives access to the Russian nuclear submarine of Project 971i, operated by the Indian Navy since 2011. According to Kommersant, the incident threatens to seriously complicate negotiations both on the lease of the second nuclear submarine, and on other projects in the field of military-technical cooperation between the two countries.

Several sources in Russian state structures have confirmed that with the newspaper saying that the Indian partners have recently committed several "unfriendly acts towards Russia." First, according to them, the US Navy delegation visited the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (property of the Indian Navy) and Russian officials were forced to issue a note of protest. After some time, a high-ranking military source told Kommersant, the American delegation was already on board the Chakra.

Kommersant’s source working in the military technical cooperation system, called the fact that the US Navy appeared on a Russian submarine (located on the base near Vishakhapatnam, pending repairs) outrageous. "There were well-trained technical specialists, though unlikely to get any real information," the source said.

According to the newspaper, *this whole string of incidents can have a very adverse impact on defense cooperation between the two countries, which has been successfully developing over the past five years. * According to several sources, specialized Russian structures are preparing retaliatory measures against their Indian partners. "Very difficult conversations are on the horizon, we have a lot of questions," a source said. Some who spoke to Kommersant believe that, in particular, the negotiations on leasing the second nuclear submarine, which the Indian Navy planned to obtain from Russia, will be seriously complicated.

According to Kommersant, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who intends to come to India in December with one of the largest deals on Russian arms, will have to iron out the problems that have accumulated. In addition to the Chakra issue, he must negotiate the creation of a fifth-generation fighter under an agreement which was signed back in 2007, but neither the airplane's conception nor its financial parameters have been determined yet.
More:
http://tass.com/pressreview/974730


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## araberuni7

TopCat said:


> Downing a plane is very hard when they fly too high and beyond the range of the SRSM. The reason Israel and USA dont want anybody to get a hand on S-300 which has the range to chase down a aircraft.


Agreed. It was actually hit one so it was within the range and altitude of pantsir but not using single shot. It took 25 shots. I am sure the seeker of panrsir sucks.


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## araberuni7

India also booted MiG-35 on the ground of Radar. In fact MiG-35 can't compete due the stipulation set by IAF. IAF wants GaN-based AESA radar. Gripen is leading the contest. Vlad's arse is hurting now.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indian-air-force-news-discussions.30328/page-267

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## The Ronin

The problem is Syria don't have enough radar coverage.


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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

The youngest QFI (Qualified Instructor) of Bangladesh Armed Forces














He is from Bangladesh Navy





Salute you sir for this achievement.

#Hail_Navy




#Naval_aviator 
#Dornior_DO228NG 
#MPA
DTB


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## Nike

The Ronin said:


>


Piston engine?


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## Tanveer666

madokafc said:


> Piston engine?


for training


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## Michael Corleone

madokafc said:


> Piston engine?


Yes


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## The Ronin



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## monitor



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## Michael Corleone

monitor said:


> View attachment 470955
> View attachment 470956


The maximum you experience around sonic boom or Mach 1 is 1G because your body is in an accelerated motion along with the aircraft... so you wouldn’t really have to wear a suit if all you’re doing is going fast in a straight line because that’s like sitting in a chair.


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## 帅的一匹



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## Bilal9

monitor said:


> View attachment 470955
> View attachment 470956



Crossing the sound barrier without a G-Suit past his prime.

That man is known as the pilot's pilot. Gonads made of steel.

May not seem impressive but how many CAS Air-Chiefs have you seen did that?

Not many.

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## muhammadali233

Bilal9 said:


> Crossing the sound barrier without a G-Suit past his prime.
> 
> That man is known as the pilot's pilot. Gonads made of steel.
> 
> May not seem impressive but how many CAS Air-Chiefs have you seen did that?
> 
> Not many.


From 1976 to almost till 2003 100's of people of all ages crossed the sound barrier everyday without the G-suits.

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## Tanveer666

araberuni7 said:


> Syrian said that they fired 25 missile to shoot down 1 F-16I. So the hit ratio is 4%. If the SA-5 cannot detect a single missile or 1970s Tornado GR4 than WTF Pantsir can do.


I thought S-200 was used to shoot down F16


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## Michael Corleone

muhammadali233 said:


> From 1976 to almost till 2003 100's of people of all ages crossed the sound barrier everyday without the G-suits.


People don’t understand the science behind all this... xD


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## Michael Corleone

Okieh guys highly likely that one of our fighter jet pilots will face court martial following info leak with pictures by him... regarding the training going on in China and j-10 procurement. Funny thing is he was super embarrassing with all his lies with me, saying he was there for k8 and f7 training which actually are done in bd...
He’s a flying officer rank, name will be secret for now because let’s face it... shit is bad for him atm

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Okieh guys highly likely that one of our fighter jet pilots will face court martial following info leak with pictures by him... regarding the training going on in China and j-10 procurement. Funny thing is he was super embarrassing with all his lies with me, saying he was there for k8 and f7 training which actually are done in bd...
> He’s a flying officer rank, name will be secret for now because let’s face it... shit is bad for him atm



Saw the photo in group!! later he requested to remove the photo!! Damn i missed the chance to share it here!! Guess this proof further that J-10 will come for sure. Even hearing BAF will release tender for single engine aircraft. Bad news for some guy in this forum!!

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Saw the photo in group!! later he requested to remove the photo!! Damn i missed the chance to share it here!! Guess this proof further that J-10 will come for sure. Even hearing BAF will release tender for single engine aircraft. Bad news for some guy in this forum!!


You don’t know how much that flying officer asked me to remove the story leaked... even after removing the photo.... his panic leads me to believe the story that members from BAC went to Pakistan to check out jf-17 production and talks on manufacturing assistance.... I guess BAC is thinking about what would happen if BNP is coming to power...

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## LKJ86

The Ronin said:


> Saw the photo in group!! later he requested to remove the photo!! Damn i missed the chance to share it here!! Guess this proof further that J-10 will come for sure. Even hearing BAF will release tender for single engine aircraft. Bad news for some guy in this forum!!


What photo?


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## BDforever

LKJ86 said:


> What photo?


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## TopCat

You people still think that J-10 deal was sealed?


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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> Okieh guys highly likely that one of our fighter jet pilots will face court martial following info leak with pictures by him... regarding the training going on in China and j-10 procurement. Funny thing is he was super embarrassing with all his lies with me, saying he was there for k8 and f7 training which actually are done in bd...
> He’s a flying officer rank, name will be secret for now because let’s face it... shit is bad for him atm



So the j-10 procurement is official? 

So no mig-35 for us?


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## Pakistani Aircraft

Nilgiri said:


> Word is, courtesy of Mr Will
> 
> You'd love to see a great many things....how much of the fantasy is actually bourne out, you will see in the end.



Fantasies like India becoming a super power by 2020, or fantasies like India not having $513 billion of external debt by the end of 2017?

You'd wish India wasn't this poor belonging to a block of nations called the third world but that's what it is.


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## The Ronin

Tanveer666 said:


> So no mig-35 for us?



Don't mix up two things. Nobody said that. stick with the topics for now. After election it will be more clear about all three aircraft.



LKJ86 said:


> What photo?



Photo of our two pilots training in China. You will find another photo in my previous thread.

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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> So the j-10 procurement is official?
> 
> So no mig-35 for us?


It’s not the c variant or the b... bd wants a specialized variant and talks on that is ongoing as there are plans to manufacture jets in BAC...

Interesting news... PAC invited BAC officials to visit the manufacturing plants of jf-17... possibly even talk sales but ofc highly unlikely bd will go for those...

As for mig 35, personally I don’t think we would get two fighters of the same class with same performance... not viable economically... what I reckon is that there would be a new tender that would life off the requirement of a twin engine letting j10 slide in and be announced as winner of that class... and then sukhois purchased probably with g2g deal

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## Nilgiri

Pakistani Aircraft said:


> Fantasies like India becoming a super power by 2020, or fantasies like India not having $513 billion of external debt by the end of 2017?
> 
> You'd wish India wasn't this poor belonging to a block of nations called the third world but that's what it is.



You ran away like a #$#% the last time you tried to have discussion on it:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...ns-to-513-billion.552346/page-3#post-10392484

Tell me if you want a round 2 on it...I would advise you to read the rest of the thread first though....so you don't come off as a complete moron on the subject.


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> As for mig 35, personally I don’t think we would get two fighters of the same class with same performance... not viable economically





Michael Corleone said:


> and then sukhois purchased probably with g2g deal



"IF" Russia don't play anymore drama about Mig-35 then might happen. But IF they do and IF govt wants to replace all F-7 with J-10 and Mig-35 then this will sure happen. Medium fighters is the main requirement so these two will be procured for in big amount. politics has a big role here. As for heavy fighters like Su-30/35 govt will buy these in small amount.


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## Michael Corleone

Missile development, manufacturing and overhauling equipments are coming one by one to bd from China...
Under deals by BAC and norinco, they’re to supply, missile development equipments, electronics, testing lab etc etc are arriving one by one...

These new developments should be key indicators in which direction bd is going with aircrafts purchase.... which again points to Chinese options

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> Missile development, manufacturing and overhauling equipments are coming one by one to bd from China...
> Under deals by BAC and norinco, they’re to supply, missile development equipments, electronics, testing lab etc etc are arriving one by one...
> 
> These new developments should be key indicators in which direction bd is going with aircrafts purchase.... which again points to Chinese options


According to Syed Amra Khan.. right???


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> According to Syed Amra Khan.. right???


Nope

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## 帅的一匹

Michael Corleone said:


> Nope


How many J10 fighters BAF will induct?

16 or 32?


----------



## ghost250

http://www.ispr.gov.bd/বিমান-বাহিনী-ও-যুক্তরাজ্/

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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> How many J10 fighters BAF will induct?
> 
> 16 or 32?


This is still not sure but first batch will have to 16 afaik...

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## muhammadali233

wanglaokan said:


> How many J10 fighters BAF will induct?
> 
> 16 or 32?


the order won't be for more than 10 aircrafts and i don't see it increasing, as those will replace migs not f-7s as they are almost new.Purely my guess.

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## 帅的一匹

Is there any plan that BAF will expand their airforce? For example 32 J10?


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## muhammadali233

shourov323 said:


> http://www.ispr.gov.bd/বিমান-বাহিনী-ও-যুক্তরাজ্/
> 
> View attachment 473211


Translate please


----------



## TopCat

wanglaokan said:


> Is there any plan that BAF will expand their airforce? For example 32 J10?


All F7 will be phased out. So certainly 48.

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## Armchair

Just another storm in a tea cup. Who saw what some picture of some pilot near a J-10 and now fan boy children are talking about contract signing.


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## Bilal9

Armchair said:


> Just another storm in a tea cup. Who saw what some picture of some pilot near a J-10 and now fan boy children are talking about contract signing.



Let's wait and see.... 



muhammadali233 said:


> Translate please



*Bangladesh Air Force and UK signed a deal to purchase military transport aircraft*

Dhaka, May 10: An agreement between Bangladesh Air Force and United Kingdom for the purchase of two C-130J MK 5 Transportation Aircraft, was signed on Thursday (10-5-2018) at the headquarters of Air Force under the G2G contract.

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Abu Esrar, BBP, NDC, ACSC attended the signing ceremony. United Kingdom High Commissioner to Bangladesh Mrs. Ellison Blake signed the Agreement on behalf of the UK and Air Vice Marshal M Sanaul Haq, Assistant Chief of Air Staff (Plan) OSP, GUP, NDC, PSC signed on behalf of Bangladesh Joint Secretary .

Principal Staff Officer of Armed Forces Division, Principal Staff Officer of Air staff and other senior officials were present in the ceremony, representatives of UK Embassy in Bangladesh were also present.

It is to be noted that this agreement was signed for the use of the UK-made C-130J MK 5 transport aircraft as part of the implementation of Forces Goal-2030. This sophisticated transport aircraft is currently operating in 17 developed countries of the world. Air transport capability in the air force is expected to increase significantly when the Air Force adds these two C-130J Transport Aircraft.

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## The Ronin

shourov323 said:


> http://www.ispr.gov.bd/বিমান-বাহিনী-ও-যুক্তরাজ্/
> 
> View attachment 473211



How dare ISPR slaps "Beguni" so hard!! Unlike Jon Snow he knows everything. He totally denied that C-130 reports by calling Plan Spotters idiot and saying they are trolling. তিনি বানী দিয়াছিলেন, "No money No honey!!". So where's money and honey both coming from now?? Why ISPR made him fool? আমরা এর তেব্র প্রতিবাদ জানাই। ঈদের পরে আন্দোলন!!

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> How dare ISPR slaps "Beguni" so hard!! Unlike Jon Snow he knows everything. He totally denied that C-130 reports by calling Plan Spotters idiot and saying they are trolling. তিনি বানী দিয়াছিলেন, "No money No honey!!". So where's money and honey both coming from now?? Why ISPR made him fool? আমরা এর তেব্র প্রতিবাদ জানাই। ঈদের পরে আন্দোলন!!


heter r amdr pussy saheb er call list e naki shb brigadier ,general der nmbr e vora...tader na janaiyaii etttoo boro decisn niya nilo..

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## Michael Corleone

Armchair said:


> Just another storm in a tea cup. Who saw what some picture of some pilot near a J-10 and now fan boy children are talking about contract signing.


Lol that pilot is getting court martialled... what you’re on about... some 20+yo posted his training photos in stories and then that spread like wildfire... until it was removed on his request, not before him getting reported to the cyber division though.



The Ronin said:


> How dare ISPR slaps "Beguni" so hard!! Unlike Jon Snow he knows everything. He totally denied that C-130 reports by calling Plan Spotters idiot and saying they are trolling. তিনি বানী দিয়াছিলেন, "No money No honey!!". So where's money and honey both coming from now?? Why ISPR made him fool? আমরা এর তেব্র প্রতিবাদ জানাই। ঈদের পরে আন্দোলন!!





shourov323 said:


> heter r amdr pussy saheb er call list e naki shb brigadier ,general der nmbr e vora...tader na janaiyaii etttoo boro decisn niya nilo..


Kar Kotha bolchen bhaira

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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> Lol that pilot is getting court martialled... what you’re on about... some 20+yo posted his training photos in stories and then that spread like wildfire... until it was removed on his request, not before him getting reported to the cyber division though.
> 
> 
> 
> Kar Kotha bolchen bhaira


amdr al beguni saheb nd tar chela mundu der kotha boltesii,Mr. moderator..


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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> amdr al beguni saheb nd tar chela mundu der kotha boltesii,Mr. moderator..


Bhai moderator ke lol ami to shadaron manush


----------



## Bilal9

I have admired the Antonov An-2 (and it's Chinese licensed brother the Nanchang/Shijiazhuang Y-5) biplane ever since my laid my eyes on one at an airshow earlier in my life.

This is probably the best designed utility (bush) aircraft ever (and Cheaper as well), compared to the classic, the Canadian DeHavilland Otter. A superb bush plane (due to the biplane's insanely low wing-loading), and because it uses the Soviet/Chinese copies of the DC-3's wright radial 9 cylinder engine (both of which are simple to maintain and as reliable as rocks), and because it stalls at about 30 miles per hour, you cannot CRASH the darned thing because it will simply FLOAT down to the ground hands off. 

Thousands are still in use in insane out of the way places (some in Alaska as well).

If there was a safe airplane this is it. IMHO we should have gotten a few to train our pilots and for para-jump duties (the PLA Airforce uses these for that purpose). This is what it looks like below. I know - kind of ugly. But the story gets better.










Much loved by the pilots - there were early attempts to 'improve' performance by fitting a turboprop.

This is the AN-3 model,






Some also came with floats (perfect for Bangladesh situation)...





But the best news I saved for last, that a brand new design of this aircraft is going to be serially built by the Helicopter plant at Ulan-Ude, the same place we get our Mi-17's from. The new aircraft has wings and fuselage completely re-designed by a company called SiBNIA and Ulan-ude will build these out of composites and will be even lighter than the one built out of duralumin built back in the 50's. Below is an image of a deeply modified An-2m with all new composite wings and tail, Honeywell TPE331-12UAN engine (very common and safe) with 5 bladed prop by Hartzell Propeller (also common and safe). Some images and videos.














 




















Kamov Ka-62 had a maiden flight last month. Russian equivalent to the Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk. With Fenestron a la Dauphin and *Harbin Z-9. *The helicopter is in the 6-7 ton take-off weight class.


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## bdslph

until now no new agreement on fighter jets 
is it all just wet dreams still

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## Nike

Bangladesh delegation visit to PT DI production facilities

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## Species

madokafc said:


> Bangladesh delegation visit to PT DI production facilities
> 
> View attachment 476043
> View attachment 476044
> View attachment 476045



Not an expert on analysing body languages but it looks like BAF officials have a pretty good personal bonding with their Indonesian counterparts.

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## Avicenna

Species said:


> Not an expert on analysing body languages but it looks like BAF officials have a pretty good personal bonding with their Indonesian counterparts.



Yea. Looks genuinely friendly. MashAllah.

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## bd_4_ever

*Bangladesh appoints Masihuzzaman Serniabat as new Air Force chief*

Masihuzzaman Serniabat has been appointed as the new chief of Bangladesh Air Force with a promotion to air marshal.

Serniabat succeeds Air Marshal Abu Esrar, the defence ministry said in a statement on Tuesday.

The new Air Force chief will take over on Jun 12 for three years


Finally.. can we expect this guy to get some work done compared to the previous fat-a$$?!

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## TopCat

bd_4_ever said:


> *Bangladesh appoints Masihuzzaman Serniabat as new Air Force chief*
> 
> Masihuzzaman Serniabat has been appointed as the new chief of Bangladesh Air Force with a promotion to air marshal.
> 
> Serniabat succeeds Air Marshal Abu Esrar, the defence ministry said in a statement on Tuesday.
> 
> The new Air Force chief will take over on Jun 12 for three years
> 
> 
> Finally.. can we expect this guy to get some work done compared to the previous fat-a$$?!


Thanks god

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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> *Bangladesh appoints Masihuzzaman Serniabat as new Air Force chief*
> 
> Masihuzzaman Serniabat has been appointed as the new chief of Bangladesh Air Force with a promotion to air marshal.
> 
> Serniabat succeeds Air Marshal Abu Esrar, the defence ministry said in a statement on Tuesday.
> 
> The new Air Force chief will take over on Jun 12 for three years
> 
> 
> Finally.. can we expect this guy to get some work done compared to the previous fat-a$$?!


The previous fat *** got the air force from nothing to 16 f7 bgi, 16 yak-130, 9 k-8, 3 l140, 16 pt6, SAM systems so he did good

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## bd_4_ever

Michael Corleone said:


> The previous fat *** got the air force from nothing to 16 f7 bgi, 16 yak-130, 9 k-8, 3 l140, 16 pt6, SAM systems so he did good



If we are going to be happy about those, bar the SAMs, then I must say our standards are pretty low.

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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> If we are going to be happy about those, bar the SAMs, then I must say our standards are pretty low.


Well yes... better to admit that than live in denial. Pesky budgets doesn’t even buy street hookers now


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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> Well yes... better to admit that than live in denial. Pesky budgets doesn’t even buy street hookers now


We have similar budget as Malaysia. We got a know how to spend them


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## bd_4_ever

Michael Corleone said:


> Well yes... better to admit that than live in denial. Pesky budgets doesn’t even buy street hookers now



I think its not the budget rather the foresight, planning and execution on behalf of the BAF Top Brass. Prime benchmark is BN and how it is expanding. Even 10 years ago, we didnt think we would make our own frigates. But since 2001, we have Mig-29s. See the difference?

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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> I think its not the budget rather the foresight, planning and execution on behalf of the BAF Top Brass. Prime benchmark is BN and how it is expanding. Even 10 years ago, we didnt think we would make our own frigates. But since 2001, we have Mig-29s. See the difference?


Man they’re so incompetent. None of their “officers” look like they’re officers... all unfit milfs


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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> None of their “officers” look like they’re officers... all unfit milfs


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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


>


XD

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Man they’re so incompetent. None of their “officers” look like they’re officers... all unfit milfs


Good God! I am not surprised by the comments. 

There are four stages of competencies. 

Unconscious incompetence 

Conscious incompetence
Conscious competence 

Unconscious competence
Bangladesh Navy = Unconscious competence
Bangladesh Army = Conscious competence
Bangladesh Air Force = Unconscious incompetence


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## bd_4_ever

polanski said:


> Good God! I am not surprised by the comments.
> 
> There are four stages of competencies.
> 
> Unconscious incompetence
> 
> Conscious incompetence
> Conscious competence
> 
> Unconscious competence
> Bangladesh Navy = Unconscious competence
> Bangladesh Army = Conscious competence
> Bangladesh Air Force = Unconscious incompetence



Pretty accurate I must say


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## Armchair

polanski said:


> Good God! I am not surprised by the comments.
> 
> There are four stages of competencies.
> 
> Unconscious incompetence
> 
> Conscious incompetence
> Conscious competence
> 
> Unconscious competence
> Bangladesh Navy = Unconscious competence
> Bangladesh Army = Conscious competence
> Bangladesh Air Force = Unconscious incompetence



Curious - you being an American, how would you know what is the state of Bangladesh armed forces? Assuming the flags you've put up are accurate.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Good God! I am not surprised by the comments.
> 
> There are four stages of competencies.
> 
> Unconscious incompetence
> 
> Conscious incompetence
> Conscious competence
> 
> Unconscious competence
> Bangladesh Navy = Unconscious competence
> Bangladesh Army = Conscious competence
> Bangladesh Air Force = Unconscious incompetence


The navy is far better than the other branches... 
while the army has decent western platforms inducted or coming soon. 
It’s the O2 force I’m worried about


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## polanski

Armchair said:


> Curious - you being an American, how would you know what is the state of Bangladesh armed forces? Assuming the flags you've put up are accurate.


How does Janes 360 know about all these countries? How does "the war zone" write blog about countries they never visited? I am just a curious soul who read about Asian defence market.


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## Bilal9

Armchair said:


> Curious - you being an American, how would you know what is the state of Bangladesh armed forces? Assuming the flags you've put up are accurate.



You are on to something brother, he be a Sanghi Hindu extremist as usual. No other group is this shameless to casually falsify flags. Another false flagger.



polanski said:


> How does Janes 360 know about all these countries? How does "the war zone" write blog about countries they never visited? I am just a curious soul who read about Asian defence market.



So what town in the United States do you call home?


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> How does Janes 360 know about all these countries? How does "the war zone" write blog about countries they never visited? I am just a curious soul who read about Asian defence market.


I beet you’re also the types that would claim anything Russian and Chinese is trash compared to US product... yet get pissed when your friends get trashy toys


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## Nilgiri

Bilal9 said:


> You are on to something brother, he be a Sanghi Hindu extremist as usual. No other group is this shameless to casually falsify flags. Another false flagger.



The inquisition overreach is strong in this one. @django @Desert Fox @Ocean the list grows....

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## django

Nilgiri said:


> The inquisition overreach is strong in this one. @django @Desert Fox @Ocean the list grows....


LOL, it's like a broken record with these folks.Kudos yaar

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> I beet you’re also the types that would claim anything Russian and Chinese is trash compared to US product... yet get pissed when your friends get trashy toys



It would be stupid compare military products without military doctrine, operational requirements and the actual technology. The main problem in Asian countries that they don't follow military doctrine and create operational requirements. Example: Su-57 fulfils Russian requirements, not Indian requirements.

American and EU products are high tech because of their defence doctrine and operational requirements. South Asian countries (except India) are happy with low tech products because of their requirements and standard set by themsleves.

The F-35I Adir is happiliy flying over Syria and Lebanon. The Syrian S-300PMU2 did Sh$%t. Russian generals said that S-300 was switched off! The War Zone laughed at him! Russian towed their aircraft carrier and crash land Su-33 on the deck. Heck, Russian even towed their missile cruiser. Russian even towed INS Vikramaditya and realise $25m is not enough for sea trial hence demanded $500m from India. Russian also taught Bangladeshi Air Force a 101 lesson about how mafia works!

India is fixated on China and Pakistan. Pakistan is fixated on India. Bangladesh is fixated on Myanmar. Myanmar is fixated on Bangladesh. Nobody is pausing a bit and thinking what are they doing and why are they doing?

But the change is happening in Indian defence market. It will happen soon and it will impact Asian defence market for sure. France, Italian and British is dominating the Middle East. The way France and Italy are marketing in South East Asia, it's a matter of time Ruski will be out of South East Asia. America will take control of Indian market with an exception of S-400. Currently, Indian military has awarded almost $12B contract to American defence manufactuer and pending delivery.

I'm not talking few million dollar sales, I am talking about billions in the sale. Don't hold your breath buddy; American and European will dominate in this market segment.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Russian also taught Bangladeshi Air Force a 101 lesson about how mafia works!


That’s indeed true.... we set spec requirements to purposely select su30... they first come with mig 35 and then offer us TOT and then places a condition that we can get sukhoi if we invest in mig.... pathetic situation really... (the same way they screwed with the Indians in sukhoi deals) and that’s why the tender has been called off

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## 帅的一匹

Michael Corleone said:


> That’s indeed true.... we set spec requirements to purposely select su30... they first come with mig 35 and then offer us TOT and then places a condition that we can get sukhoi if we invest in mig.... pathetic situation really... (the same way they screwed with the Indians in sukhoi deals) and that’s why the tender has been called off


How is J10 deal doing?


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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> we set spec requirements to purposely select su30... they first come with mig 35 and then offer us TOT and then places a condition that we can get sukhoi if we invest in mig.... pathetic situation really... (the same way they screwed with the Indians in sukhoi deals) and that’s why the tender has been called off


why are there too much complex steps for BD to buy Su-30 from Russia ? it's totally non-sense that BD must invest in MiG to buy Su-30.Myanmar already signed for 6 Su-30 and no need to invest with MiG.Russia is willing to sell almost everything in their inventory if they can get a big cash. may be U got trapped in wrong info from BDmilitary or there must have other factors behind this if ur info is true.

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> why are there too much complex steps for BD to buy Su-30 from Russia ? it's totally non-sense that BD must invest in MiG to buy Su-30.Myanmar already signed for 6 Su-30 and no need to invest with MiG.Russia is willing to sell almost everything in their inventory if they can get a big cash. may be U got trapped in wrong info from BDmilitary or there must have other factors behind this if ur info is true.


MM got the plane through political pursuation.
BD kept the politics out. BD air force independently worked with UAC and negotiated. Our govt dont want to get involved in the negotiation and asked the airforce to get the best bargain. UAC also saw an opportunity to sell 48 Mig-29 and they did not want to let go the business.

We still have the European option open besides the Chinese option


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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> MM got the plane through political pursuation.
> BD kept the politics out. BD air force independently worked with UAC and negotiated. Our govt dont want to get involved in the negotiation and asked the airforce to get the best bargain. UAC also saw an opportunity to sell 48 Mig-29 and they did not want to let go the business.
> 
> We still have the European option open besides the Chinese option


lol it's selling fighter planes with deadly weapons , not toys. Unlike western countries , politic play important role regarding arm trade with Russia as UAC is state owned company. our deal also made by AF alone.there is no work for civilian gov in arm trade. their work is adding or cutting the budget based on our ability and report.


TopCat said:


> We still have the European option open besides the Chinese option


i dont think BD have western option.

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> lol it's selling fighter planes with deadly weapons , not toys. Unlike western countries , politic play important role regarding arm trade with Russia as UAC is state owned company. our deal also made by AF alone.there is no work for civilian gov in arm trade. their work is adding or cutting the budget based on our ability and report.


I did not say civilian government. Your armed force is controlled by army government and they pursued it in the top level.


> i dont think BD have western option.


Your entitled to your feel good opinion.


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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> I did not say civilian government. Your armed force is controlled by army government and they pursued it in the top level.


nope. u are just blaming the others trying to cover ur own incompetence.

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> nope. u are just blaming the others trying to cover ur own incompetence.


We blamed you for not purchasing SU-30?


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## bdslph

until now no deal of j10c su30 mig29 or mig35 

its all transport and trainer we are buying and have 

years and years already passing by i just hear is just rumors 

there is no western option plus we dont have money for it 

russia and china is only our option


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## The Ronin

#A_New_Era_of_BD_Airforce

বিশ্বের ২১ তম এবং এশিয়ার ৭ম দেশ হিসাবে বাংলাদেশ নিজেদের
#Air_Defence_Identification_Zone (ADIZ) ঘোষনা করতে যাচ্ছে।

এয়ার ডিফেন্স আইডেন্টিফিকেশন জোন হচ্ছে সেই এলাকা যা একটি দেশের নিজ্বস আকাশ সীমার বাইরে মহিসোপান অঞ্চল এবং আন্তর্জাতিক আকাশ সীমার মাঝে নিজের নজরদারী ও ক্ষমতা প্রকাশ করা। এই সক্ষমতা অর্জনের ফলে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী বাংলাদেশ নিজের আকাশ সীমা ছাড়াও গভীর সমুদ্রে মহীসোপানভুক্ত আকাশ সীমা ভারতের পশ্চিম বাংলা, আসাম, ত্রিপুরা, ভুটানের কিছু অংশ এবং পূর্ব দক্ষিনের মিয়ানমার এর আকাশ সীমার ভিতরে ৫০-১৫০ কিমি পর্যন্ত অঞ্চলে যে কোন বেসামরিক বিমান এবং ট্রান্সপোর্ট বিমান এর উড্ডয়নে উপর নজর রাখতে পারবে এবং বাংলাদেশে আকাশ সীমা ব্যবহারের আগে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর ঠিক করে দেয়া আকাশ পথ অনুসরন করতে হবে। বিশেষত এত দিন বাংলাদেশ এর আকাশ সীমা যেসব আন্তর্জাতিক বিমান সংস্থা ব্যবহার করতো তারা শুধু সিভিল এভিয়েশন অথরিটি থেকে অনুমতি নিয়ে বাংলাদেশ ভিতরে যেকোন অঞ্চল দিয়ে ঢুকতে পারতো যা বাংলাদেশ এর নিরাপত্তা বিঘ্নিত করতো। নিজ দেশের বাইরে অতিরিক্ত অঞ্চলে নজরদারী না থাকায় বাংলাদেশ আগে থেকে তাদের পথ নির্নয় করতে পারতো না। কিন্তু বর্তমান ব্যবস্থায় যেকোন বিমান বাংলাদেশের আকাশ সীমায় প্রবেশের ১ ঘন্টা আগেই তা বিমান বাহিনীর নজরদারীর আওতায় চলে আসবে এবং বাংলাদেশ কোন অঞ্চল তারা ব্যবহার করবে তা আগে থেকে বাংলাদেশ নির্নয় করে দিবে। বিশেষত ভারতীয় এবং মধ্য প্রাচ্যের বিভিন্ন বিমান সংস্থা আছে যারা বাংলাদেশ ফ্লাইট পরিচালনা না করলেও বাংলাদেশ আকাশ সীমা ব্যবহার করে থাকে। রেজিস্টার না থাকায় এসব বিমানের নিরাপত্তা নিয়ে প্রশ্ন থেকেই যায় তাই ২০১৬ সালে বিমান বাহিনীর প্রস্তাবে প্রধানমন্ত্রী মন্ত্রীসভার এক বৈঠকে নিজেদের ADIZ গঠন করার সিধান্ত নেয়। আর সেই উদ্দেশ্যে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী তাদের আকাশ সীমা রাডার এর সম্পূর্ন নজরদারির অধীনে নিয়ে আসার কাজ শুরু করে আর ADIZ এর মুল কেন্দ্র হিসাবে বরিশাল কে বেছে নেয়া হয় যেখানে ইতালি থেকে কেনা RAT31L AESA রাডার আগামী মাসে বসানো হচ্ছে।

দক্ষিন এশিয়ায় ভারত এবং পাকিস্তান এর নিজ্বস ADIZ আছে। মুলত এটি একটি ক্ষমতার বহিঃপ্রকাশ হিসাবে দেখা হয় যেখানে প্রতিবেশী দেশ গুলো কে সেই ADIZ মানার বাধ্যবাধকতা মেনে চলতে হয়। তবে সম্পর্কে বৈরীতা থাকলে অনেক ক্ষেত্রেই ADIZ না মানার ঘটনাও আছে যেমন দক্ষিন কোরিয়ার বিমান কয়েকবার চীনের ADIZ লংঘ্ন করার ঘটনা আছে। ADIZ মুলত বেসামরিক বিমান চলাচলের উপর নজরদারী করার লক্ষ্যে গড়ে তুলা হলেও এটি প্রতিবেশী দেশ গুলো সামরিক বিমান চলাচলের উপর নজর রাখতে সক্ষম।

#A_New_Era_of_BD_Airforce

Bangladesh is the 21st in the world and 7th Asia in Asia
#Air_Defence_Identification_Zone (ADIZ) is going to announce.

The Air Defense Identification Zone is the area which is one of the countries to express its own surveillance and capabilities within the territorial areas and international airspace beyond the limit of the sky. In addition to achieving this capability, Bangladesh Air Force Bangladesh has no airplane airspace and any airplane airspace in the deep sea, within 50-150 km area of West Bengal, Assam, Tripura, parts of Bhutan and parts of Myanmar in East South, Before the use of the sky limit in Bangladesh, Bangladesh Air Force will be able to monitor the flight Just follow the path to the aqua sky. Especially so many international airlines that used the airspace of Bangladesh could enter through any territory within Bangladesh, with permission from the Civil Aviation Authority, which obstructed the security of Bangladesh. Bangladesh was not able to track their way before due to lack of surveillance in the additional areas outside their home country. But in the current system any aircraft will come under the supervision of the Air Force one hour before the entry of the skyline of Bangladesh and Bangladesh will decide which areas they will use beforehand. Especially in the Indian and Middle Eastern firms there are those who do not operate Bangladesh flights, but Bangladesh uses the sky limit. The reason for the security of these aircraft remains unresolved due to non-registration, so in 2016, the Prime Minister decided to form ADIZ at a meeting of the Prime Minister at a meeting of the cabinet. And for that purpose Bangladesh Air Force started to bring them under the complete surveillance of their sky border radar and Barisal was chosen as the main center of ADIZ, where the RAT31L AESA radar bought from Italy is being set up next month.

In South Asia, India and Pakistan have ADIZ's resignations. Basically it is seen as an expression of power where neighboring countries have to comply with the obligations of those ADIZ. However, if there is hostility in many cases, there is no case of non-ADIZ disciplines such as South Korea's airspace several times due to China's ADIZ violation. Although ADIZ has been targeted to oversee civil aviation, it is able to keep an eye on the military air movement of neighboring countries.

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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> How is J10 deal doing?


All tenders have been taken down, expect more news after election but pilots are still being sent to China for the training and j-10 is suppose to be a g2g deal... wether it has been signed or will be signed is not confirmed... govt will only release information after the election imo



Aung Zaya said:


> why are there too much complex steps for BD to buy Su-30 from Russia ? it's totally non-sense that BD must invest in MiG to buy Su-30.Myanmar already signed for 6 Su-30 and no need to invest with MiG.Russia is willing to sell almost everything in their inventory if they can get a big cash. may be U got trapped in wrong info from BDmilitary or there must have other factors behind this if ur info is true.


Because we hadn’t been very good buyers in the past... we went for 16 mig 29 with 16 options back in the days after we received eight we cancelled the orders... our planes were then not sold for some time before a deal was negotiated with Belarus from which they backed out and later y’all bought our migs... if anything I learnt about russians living with them is that they hate unreliable partners... unreliable people are сука блять



Aung Zaya said:


> there is no work for civilian gov in arm trade.


Because your govt is basically the military still

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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> All tenders have been taken down



What? After all that dramabaaz here? Page and pages, and threads and threads of it down the drain @BDforever 

Praise be to Haseena.

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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> What? After all that dramabaaz here? Page and pages, and threads and threads of it down the drain @BDforever
> 
> Praise be to Haseena.


Lul, they’ve been taken down in the sense the deals will be concluded in G2G level...

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## Nilgiri

@madokafc @Gibbs @Aung Zaya @django @Desert Fox 

Look at what all the version 1.0 will will will will will + CGI ended up as in the end 

Hey back to square one i guess...heres to version 2.0 doing better

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## polanski

Bilal9 said:


> You are on to something brother, he be a Sanghi Hindu extremist as usual. No other group is this shameless to casually falsify flags. Another false flagger.
> 
> So what town in the United States do you call home?



Dude, You are not the only one who lives in the USA. By the look of your language, you are a Muslim extremist. The biggest problem is that people stand in the visa queue on the Western country. Once they arrive in a western country, they felt that they accomplished something. If you travel to many countries like me, then you will lose those senses.

Besides, I could officially use three flags here, but there are only two options. I know Asian defence market very well. Hence I know Bangladeshi defence market. I am also other threads too which are not related to Bangladesh. I only consider Bangladesh military as an excellent and risk-free Excess Defence Article (EDA) recipient for non-lethal weapons. 

I visited 9 US states. I lived in two. That's probably none of your business. Way too off topics. Let's concentrate on the thread. I apologise guys.

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## Bilal9

polanski said:


> Dude, You are not the only one who lives in the USA. By the look of your language, you are a Muslim extremist. The biggest problem is that people stand in the visa queue on the Western country. Once they arrive in a western country, they felt that they accomplished something. If you travel to many countries like me, then you will lose those senses.
> 
> Besides, I could officially use three flags here, but there are only two options. I know Asian defence market very well. Hence I know Bangladeshi defence market. I am also other threads too which are not related to Bangladesh. I only consider Bangladesh military as an excellent and risk-free Excess Defence Article (EDA) recipient for non-lethal weapons.
> 
> I visited 9 US states. I lived in two. That's probably none of your business. Way too off topics. Let's concentrate on the thread. I apologise guys.



Yeah by the looks of your post it is obvious you are a VERY recent US transplant and an Indian Sanghi. 

Fee fi fo fum - I smell a Sanghi Man!! 

BTW no American I know uses the word 'apologise'.

Just let us know which Sanghi Shakha your report to in India....


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## Zarvan

Problem is your Government is slave of India and until you start considering India your main enemy instead of Mayanmar things won't change


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## UKBengali

Zarvan said:


> Problem is your Government is slave of India and until you start considering India your main enemy instead of Mayanmar things won't change



"Slave" that buys weapons from China?
BD does not like or trust India but what is the benefit of making an enemy of India? India occupies no land claimed by BD, unlike Pakistan.
BD needs to build up it's economic and military power first before it can deal with India to it's own advantage.


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## TopCat

Zarvan said:


> Problem is your Government is slave of India and until you start considering India your main enemy instead of Mayanmar things won't change


Why would anybody want to make anybody an enemy? We are not actually xenophobic or religious nutt jobs. We have differences with India but end of the day we have to live with them as neighbor. You cant quarrel with your neighbor all day and live peacefully. Thats not what even PK has to do.

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## Nilgiri

Bilal9 said:


> BTW no American I know uses the word 'apologise'.



@jhungary @TexasJohn @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote 

look at this loon-bat lol.

@jhungary I guess you aren't a proper American:

https://defence.pk/pdf/search/12944243/?q=apologise&o=date&c[user][0]=143217

even though you did a million times more for the USA than this keyboard conspiracy theorist (and quite likely an illegal immigrant/poser).

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## Hamartia Antidote

Nilgiri said:


> @jhungary @TexasJohn @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote
> 
> look at this loon-bat lol.
> 
> @jhungary I guess you aren't a proper American:
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/search/12944243/?q=apologise&o=date&c[user][0]=143217
> 
> even though you did a million times more for the USA than this keyboard conspiracy theorist (and quite likely an illegal immigrant/poser).



Most people say "sorry" but "apologize" is fine too if you have a better upbringing.

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## AMG_12

Nilgiri said:


> @jhungary @TexasJohn @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote
> 
> look at this loon-bat lol.
> 
> @jhungary I guess you aren't a proper American:
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/search/12944243/?q=apologise&o=date&c[user][0]=143217
> 
> even though you did a million times more for the USA than this keyboard conspiracy theorist (and quite likely an illegal immigrant/poser).


He'll be labelled "Indian" if he agrees with you

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## Michael Corleone

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Most people say "sorry" but "apologize" is fine too if you have a better upbringing.


Sometimes I am ashamed by the shit people say in this forum, I ask forgiveness for the idiots above!

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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> Sometimes I am ashamed by the shit people say in this forum, I ask forgiveness for the idiots above!



Are you calling bill-tard an idiot? That's not nice! Yer obv a false flagger @Game.Invade

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## bluesky

J10C may be the only available option after F16 block 70 and Gripen E, however, J10 fighter jets have their own issues, specially with crash rates. J10 has crashed 10 times since its induction (last year the latest one) to the Chinese PLAAF - this is what I have read somewhere. 

However, J10s are considered to have a very good avionics and weapon package. Equipped with Chinese aesa radar (chinese aesa are not considered as good as Americans, though) the J10 offers a good value for money.

I do not know exactly the detail of AESA radar, but I personally wish this plane to be inducted by the BAF when the new air force bases are ready to house them.



Bilal9 said:


> BTW no American I know uses the word *'apologise*'.


Are you talking about the spelling to be written as "*Apologize*"? I am not living in America, but I know there are some differences in spelling between British and American versions. But, are you here to teach people English?

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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> J10C may be the only available option after F16 block 70 and Gripen E, however, J10 fighter jets have their own issues, specially with crash rates. J10 has crashed 10 times since its induction (last year the latest one) to the Chinese PLAAF - this is what I have read somewhere.
> 
> However, J10s are considered to have a very good avionics and weapon package. Equipped with Chinese aesa radar (chinese aesa are not considered as good as Americans, though) the J10 offers a good value for money.
> 
> I do not know exactly the detail of AESA radar, but I personally wish this plane to be inducted by the BAF when the new air force bases are ready to house them.
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the spelling to be written as "*Apologize*"? I am not living in America, but I know there are some differences in spelling between British and American versions. But, are you here to teach people English?


J10 problems are sorted out though... now testing is going on for a TVC engine


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## Bilal9

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Most people say "sorry" but "apologize" is fine too if you have a better upbringing.



I was referring to the spelling....

No American I know spells 'apologize' with an 's' instead of the usual 'z'.

So - welcome to the behavior of lying false-flagger low-lifes who claim to be American born, yet cannot spell 'apologize' properly. It's been a hallmark of trolls here. The false-flaggers are being spawned at an unprecedented rate, and they all support a few trolls with Indian flags. 

I'm sorry, can't stand liars.


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## The Ronin

Is it possible to get Italian Vixen AESA with J-10 like the Pakistani JF-17 offers??

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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> we went for 16 mig 29 with 16 options back in the days after we received eight we cancelled the orders.



I never found any concrete information that we actually ordered 16/32 migs rather than just 8.


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> I never found any concrete information that we actually ordered 16/32 migs rather than just 8.


In the other forum there’s a guy with detailed post of each airframe number etc and all related info... I don’t visit that forum often


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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> Is it possible to get Italian Vixen AESA with J-10 like the Pakistani JF-17 offers??



Good combination. Italian radars like the Vixen 'could be' a great add-on to the J-10 if they are similar in size to the SELEX Grifo. If it fits the JF-17 radome you'd think it would fit the J-10 which MAY be similar in size.

There was a discussion thread from 2011 here,

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-radar-dome-size.95288/page-2


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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> In the other forum there’s a guy with detailed post of each airframe number etc and all related info... I don’t visit that forum often


which one? defbd? could you PM me the post or link?


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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> Good combination. Italian radars like the Vixen 'could be' a great add-on to the J-10 if they are similar in size to the SELEX Grifo. If it fits the JF-17 radome you'd think it would fit the J-10 which MAY be similar in size.
> 
> There was a discussion thread from 2011 here,
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-radar-dome-size.95288/page-2




Vixen is too small for the J-10.

Chinese AESA radar technology is arguably better than anyone bar the US right now - just look at the amount of ships, SAM systems and fighters they are already deployed on. The J-10Cs AESA is supposed to a miniaturised one that is fitted to the 5th gen J-20 fighter.

Too many people think that European must be better than China. Only area that EU has a clear lead over China is in engine technology.


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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Where did @polanski say he was US-born?
> 
> All he said was:
> 
> 
> 
> Implying he could very well have come from another country that prefers Queen's english over webster American....but how does that figure into you labelling him as Sanghi automatically?
> 
> @Game.Invade @Michael Corleone @Gibbs
> 
> Again, an actual US military veteran here uses the spelling "apologise":
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/search/12944243/?q=apologise&o=date&c[user][0]=143217
> 
> ....I dare you to tell him to his face that he is a false flagging low-life. @jhungary
> 
> So stop derailing this thread with your butthurt "yer a false flagger if you dont agree with me whaaaaa" nonsense (that you are going full on with @bluesky lately)....and proving to everyone else that YOU are the low life.




If @bluesky is not a false flagger then he is mentally unbalanced. Recently a poster got banned for being "emotionally unstable". The way he talks about his own "countrymen" is frankly weird.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> If @bluesky is not a false flagger then he is mentally unbalanced. Recently a poster got banned for being "emotionally unstable". The way he talks about his own "countrymen" is frankly weird.



@itsanufy , @Aung Zaya @Gibbs the groupthink paranoia sure has spread and deepened from the original infection points

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> @itsanufy , @Aung Zaya @Gibbs the groupthink paranoia sure has spread and deepened from the original infection points



lol @ butt-hurt.

He is either a false flagger, account is hacked or is mentally unstable.

Stop tagging morons will ya!

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> lol @ butt-hurt.
> 
> He is either a false flagger, account is hacked or is mentally unstable.
> 
> Stop tagging morons will ya!



পুরান পাগলে ভাত পায়না নতুন পাগলের আমদানি। 

তাও আবার সেলফ ক্রিয়েটেড পাগল।

Old pagals going to waste - here comes new pagal....


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> which one? defbd? could you PM me the post or link?


Yep that one... it’s not difficult to find all the info... just sign up and go to the air force section


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> But, the famous @Bilal9 thinks I am an Indian, because I used some words, which ones I do not remember, only Indians use. This shows his own failure to grasp the twists in the international language, although I find his English writing better than average. But, Bangladesh people are now-a-days encouraged to forget English.


Judging by your English alone, you’re Bangladeshi confirmed.

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## bluesky

UKBengali said:


> lol @ butt-hurt.
> 
> He is either a false flagger, account is hacked or is mentally unstable.
> 
> Stop tagging morons will ya!


Are not you the one who tags himself with a British flag? I do not see you have any knowledge about a modern and developed country although you claim you reside in the UK. A hypocrite of highest degree.

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## Flynn Swagmire

bluesky said:


> Are not you the one who tags himself with a British flag? I do not see you have any knowledge about a modern and developed country although you claim you reside in the UK. A hypocrite of highest degree.


Bhai, please calm down...

@Bilal9 Bhai, you too...

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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> Yep that one... it’s not difficult to find all the info... just sign up and go to the air force section


It seems i am blacklisted on that forum T.T; can you post it here?


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## monitor

Bangladesh getting delivery of Italian London range servelance radar next month. It's a selex RAT31DL 500 km radar will be install in Barisal airbase .

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## Tanveer666

monitor said:


> Bangladesh getting delivery of Italian London range servelance radar next month. It's a selex RAT31DL 500 km radar will be install in Barisal airbase .
> View attachment 480730


wait, didn't we receive those last year?


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> It seems i am blacklisted on that forum T.T; can you post it here?


Nah, they know my user id very well... people tried to taint my image, using my quotes from this forum... I don’t want to share info shared there. It’s an invite only forum


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## polanski

Considering the current defence budget of Bangladesh, would Bangladeshi Air Force consider 24 F-16 C/D through excess defense article (EDA). Trump administration may approve weapon sale considering his track record as off now. Anything against Russian has a possibility of an approval. Trump famously said in a meeting that f$ck Obama policy. Bangladeshi Air Force can upgrade those aircrafts at TAI and ASELSAN turkey or can be upgraded by Lockheed Martin before handing over to Bangladesh. 

Vietnam is considering F-16 and P3C from EDA. The sale would occur under the Department of Defense’s Excess Defense Articles program, which provides used U.S. military equipment to partner nations at a reduced price. Vietnam seeks deals similar to ones the United States gave to Taiwan and Indonesia, according to the the source.
Source The Diplomat.

BTW, like @jhungary says. Anyone who doubt my flag is more than welcome to see me next time I visit Singapore. I will ride your back!

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## Species

polanski said:


> BTW, like @jhungary says. Anyone who doubt my flag is more than welcome to see me next time I visit Singapore. I will ride your back!



People with your flag always ride backs of those visiting them in Singapore?


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Considering the current defence budget of Bangladesh, would Bangladeshi Air Force consider 24 F-16 C/D through excess defense article (EDA). Trump administration may approve weapon sale considering his track record as off now. Anything against Russian has a possibility of an approval. Trump famously said in a meeting that f$ck Obama policy. Bangladeshi Air Force can upgrade those aircrafts at TAI and ASELSAN turkey or can be upgraded by Lockheed Martin before handing over to Bangladesh.
> 
> Vietnam is considering F-16 and P3C from EDA. The sale would occur under the Department of Defense’s Excess Defense Articles program, which provides used U.S. military equipment to partner nations at a reduced price. Vietnam seeks deals similar to ones the United States gave to Taiwan and Indonesia, according to the the source.
> Source The Diplomat.
> 
> BTW, like @jhungary says. Anyone who doubt my flag is more than welcome to see me next time I visit Singapore. I will ride your back!



BAF apparently wants new builds.

As much as US kit has traditionally been superior, there are alot of strings attached with it.

BAF will likely go the Chinese or Russian route as usual.

Although I personally favor a mixed East West split buy.

Would be great to maybe get EDA F-16s and new build SU-35.

One can dream....

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> BAF apparently wants new builds.
> 
> As much as US kit has traditionally been superior, there are alot of strings attached with it.
> 
> BAF will likely go the Chinese or Russian route as usual.
> 
> Although I personally favor a mixed East West split buy.
> 
> Would be great to maybe get EDA F-16s and new build SU-35.
> 
> One can dream....




If BD is going to buy aircraft that needs US approval, it may as well go for the Gripen E.
This has a newer design and so will be competitive for longer and also has the advantage of being even cheaper than F-16 to operate and maintain.

As for SU-35, as long as Government gives BAF the funds then it is absolutely possible.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> If BD is going to buy aircraft that needs US approval, it may as well go for the Gripen E.
> This has a newer design and so will be competitive for longer and also has the advantage of being even cheaper than F-16 to operate and maintain.
> 
> As for SU-35, as long as Government gives BAF the funds then it is absolutely possible.



I wonder if part of the problem is a lack of vision. I don't know. It's easy for us living room generals to make pronouncements but we REALLY don't know the content of conversations and the thoughts that exist behind closed doors amongst those who actually make the decisions. 

However, from the outside, it is fairly apparent BD CAN AFFORD a more capable air force. Certainly, from the level that currently exists. I really think a shift needs to take place where there needs to be more sourcing from the West. The Gripen would be wonderful. I can not see any political barriers to obtaining it. BD isnt some pariah state. The obvious problem is of course finances. But that being said, I do think its an affordable option if the political will is there to obtain it. The SU-35 also should be obtainable. Once Russia sees BD has Western options, the stunt that MiG apparently pulled no longer becomes a problem. Russia will be more than happy to sell Bangaldesh the Su-35.

http://www.janes.com/article/80943/saab-s-gripen-positioned-for-philippines-fighter-requirement

Learn how to place a tender from this BAF!

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I wonder if part of the problem is a lack of vision. I don't know. It's easy for us living room generals to make pronouncements but we REALLY don't know the content of conversations and the thoughts that exist behind closed doors amongst those who actually make the decisions.
> 
> However, from the outside, it is fairly apparent BD CAN AFFORD a more capable air force. Certainly, from the level that currently exists. I really think a shift needs to take place where there needs to be more sourcing from the West. The Gripen would be wonderful. I can not see any political barriers to obtaining it. BD isnt some pariah state. The obvious problem is of course finances. But that being said, I do think its an affordable option if the political will is there to obtain it. The SU-35 also should be obtainable. Once Russia sees BD has Western options, the stunt that MiG apparently pulled no longer becomes a problem. Russia will be more than happy to sell Bangaldesh the Su-35.
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/80943/saab-s-gripen-positioned-for-philippines-fighter-requirement
> 
> Learn how to place a tender from this BAF!




I think that BAF really messed up the tender but will have learnt from this. You never ever design a tender where only one party can meet the requirement as then you give up your buyers leverage.

Advanced fighters are coming from Russia and/or China. I am not sure if the Gripen will be feasible as the USN really wants a base in BD and the Trump administration may insist on this, which would be a definite no-no for BD.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I think that BAF really messed up the tender but will have learnt from this. You never ever design a tender where only one party can meet the requirement as then you give up your buyers leverage.
> 
> Advanced fighters are coming from Russia and/or China. I am not sure if the Gripen will be feasible as the USN really wants a base in BD and the Trump administration may insist on this, which would be a definite no-no for BD.



We are making assumptions. At least float an appropriate tender and invite SAAB into the discussion.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> We are making assumptions. At least float an appropriate tender and invite SAAB into the discussion.



I do not have much confidence in BD political and military leadership to go Western in the next 5-10 years.
Their best chance to lobby in Washington for arms was over the Rohingya issue and they have done a big fat zero on this as far as can be seen. With the prevailing disgust in Western capitals over the Rohingya atrocities and cleansing, and this to me was genuine humanitarian concern, BD had the chance to ask for US technology but did not take it.

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh and Russia are enhancing defence cooperation. BD delegation in Russia.

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## Michael Corleone

Dates are unchanged, expect new aircrafts starting 2019


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Dates are unchanged, expect new aircrafts starting 2019




Arriving in BD or deal being signed?


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Arriving in BD or deal being signed?


Remember delegation going to Russian last year but there was no proof? These pictures above are from then, aircrafts will start to be delivered from 2019, ie after the elections

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Remember delegation going to Russian last year but there was no proof? These pictures above are from then, aircrafts will start to be delivered from 2019, ie after the elections




I hope you are correct. 

But as I see it BAF lacks doctrine and vision. 2030 vision is no longer applicable. Nations around us are modernising we are doing nothing. I hate to be negative but BAF leadership needs to be sacked and we need to start afresh.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> I hope you are correct.
> 
> But as I see it BAF lacks doctrine and vision. 2030 vision is no longer applicable. Nations around us are modernising we are doing nothing. I hate to be negative but BAF leadership needs to be sacked and we need to start afresh.


The new BAF chief is a certified su-30 pilot, he completed his training in 30 hours of flight time. He’s to implement the goal laid out by esrar, so now it’s just a matter of time until we see results.

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Does he still think that (that you are just me specifically) when other BD members are starting to not support that?  .... I wonder how much time he has spent complaining to the mods by this point to try get you banned/deleted....must be a lot. Poor guy, you didn't take his ABC test!...why do you have to be so nasty like that?



Can we have some humility?

You have just come back from yet another ban
and doing the same thing as before.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> Can we have some humility?
> 
> You have just come back from yet another ban
> and doing the same thing as before.



Mass-trolling and thread-derailing, that is their Mantra....now they have come to a sticky thread to derail it by inviting more trolls. Just ignore these people...tired of their tactics.

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## ghost250

BAF signed the contract for a second squadron of K-8Ws...






K8 Jet Trainer

Bangladesh and China on Wednesday signed a contract to procure training aircrafts for Bangladesh Air Force,

The signing ceremony to procure K-8W Jet trainer aircrafts was held at Air Headquarters at Dhaka Cantonment under a government-to-government mechanism as part of implementing Forces Goal-2030.

Newly appointed chief of air staff Air Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat was present at the ceremony.

The contract was signed by assistant chief of air staff (Planning) Air Vice Marshal M Sanaul Huq and Liu Jianhai, vice president of CATIC on behalf of Bangladesh and China respectively, said an Inter Services Public Relations release.

Among others, representatives of Air Headquarters, Armed Forced Division and Foreign Ministry were present in the ceremony.

China ambassador in Bangladesh Zhang-Zuo and president CATIC also were present at the ceremony.

BAF has been flying K-8W Jet Trainer aircraft since 2014.

Source: newagebd.net

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## monitor



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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

UKBengali said:


> If BD is going to buy aircraft that needs US approval, it may as well go for the Gripen E.
> This has a newer design and so will be competitive for longer and also has the advantage of being even cheaper than F-16 to operate and maintain.
> 
> As for SU-35, as long as Government gives BAF the funds then it is absolutely possible.



isn't the Gripen E using the same GE F414 engine as used in Super Hornet and Tejas mkii?.... getting a Super Hornet engine would not be too different from getting a Super Hornet..... how much guarantee is there that there will not be any strings attached to GE F414 engine?


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## Bilal9

*C-130Js for Bangladesh Air Force*

By bdreports24, May 11, 2018

Bangladesh has selected the UK’s Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group to modify a pair of ex-Royal Air Force-operated Lockheed Martin C-130Js and provide long-term support for the tactical transports.

Announced by Marshall on 10 May, the deal will include work in designing, developing and installing a new medical evacuation fit for Dhaka’s Hercules. This will “enable the Bangladesh air force to carry out important tasks within the country and overseas delivering support to UN missions,” the Cambridge-based company says.






Marshall says it will provide a “total support solution” to the Asia-Pacific nation, including aircraft maintenance, engineering and logistics services and spare parts. This will “ensure the effective operation of the fleet”, it adds.

The Bangladesh air force says the ex-RAF transports will provide “a key enhancement to our current airlift capability… as we prepare to take the step from the B- to J-model.” Flight Fleets Analyzer records the service as currently using four C-130B/Es, aged between 56 and 58 years. The UK’s surplus “Super Hercules” are on average 19 years old, it shows.

The RAF has already retired its five short-fuselage C-130Js, having focused its operations on the stretched -30 model, 19 of which remain in use. One of its surplus airlifters has already been bought by the US Navy and will be employed in support of its Blue Angels aerobatic display team, where it will replace an aged T-model transport.


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## bdslph

our air force is becoming more like Transport & Trainer Air Force hahahaha 
i want to see some real deal

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## asad71

Almost all of what is being posted here is either speculation or disinfo planted by the deep state. BAF must remain a trainer, chopper and transport force. Senior officers are very happy promoted to AMs, ACMs, etc without an inventory to justify. MRCA, Submarine and Battle Tank are offensive / attacking eqpt. In our threat perception study recently adopted in the Staff College, Mirpur, we got no enemy to attack!?! Therefore, no MRCA. No more MBTs after one regt was delivered. And a lot of explanations had to be provided for acquiring the daddu / aged subs. Still to be sure, anti-sub eqpt were almost immediately supplied to Burma by our only ally / bandhu India!?!

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## UKBengali

asad71 said:


> Almost all of what is being posted here is either speculation or disinfo planted by the deep state. BAF must remain a trainer, chopper and transport force. Senior officers are very happy promoted to AMs, ACMs, etc without an inventory to justify. MRCA, Submarine and Battle Tank are offensive / attacking eqpt. In our threat perception study recently adopted in the Staff College, Mirpur, we got no enemy to attack!?! Therefore, no MRCA. No more MBTs after one regt was delivered. And a lot of explanations had to be provided for acquiring the daddu / aged subs. Still to be sure, anti-sub eqpt were almost immediately supplied to Burma by our only ally / bandhu India!?!



How does BAF intend to protect the skies of BD without modern fighters? They are also needed defensively.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> How does BAF intend to protect the skies of BD without modern fighters? They are also needed defensively.



Judging BAF by performance and doctrine, they are not planning to defend BD skies. 

Very sad but true. BAF is unfit for purpose.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Judging BAF by performance and doctrine, they are not planning to defend BD skies.
> 
> Very sad but true. BAF is unfit for purpose.



I wish I knew what is happening with BAF.
Let us wait till 2019.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I wish I knew what is happening with BAF.
> Let us wait till 2019.




BAF has unfortunately not taken any step whatsoever in the last two decade to develop any capacity. It is beyond a joke. 

BA and BN is developing own Ariel capacity. It is time in my opinion to sack and disband BAF in its current state and start again. It is rotten to the core and blaming the government does not explain such profound ineptitude.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> BAF has unfortunately not taken any step whatsoever in the last two decade to develop any capacity. It is beyond a joke.
> 
> BA and BN is developing own Ariel capacity. It is time in my opinion to sack and disband BAF in its current state and start again. It is rotten to the core and blaming the government does not explain such profound ineptitude.



I agree that the leadership of BAF is the worse by far.
However even a squadron of decent modern fighters costs at least one billion US dollars.
BAF does need government clearance before it can go out and buy fighters.
It looks like they totally messed up the tender last year and the Russians tried to take advantage by insisting on the crappy Mig-35, before they would release SU-30SME. I am glad that BD stuck to its guns as they need a fighter that can take on both the Barman savages and the Hinduvta fanatics.
It is very frustrating that AL has not yet brought a single modern fighter in 9 years in power but I get the feeling that both J-10C and SU-30SME contracts will be signed next year. AL morons feel they cannot antagonise India before the elections are over.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I agree that the leadership of BAF is the worse by far.
> However even a squadron of decent modern fighters costs at least one billion US dollars.
> BAF does need government clearance before it can go out and buy fighters.
> It looks like they totally messed up the tender last year and the Russians tried to take advantage by insisting on the crappy Mig-35, before they would release SU-30SME. I am glad that BD stuck to itsi guns as they need a fighter that can take on both the Barman savages and the Hinduvta fanatics.
> It is very frustrating that AL has not yet brought a single modern fighter in 9 years in power but I get the feeling that both J-10C and SU-30SME contracts will be signed next year. AL morons feel they cannot antagonise India before the elections are over.




Let us hope you are correct.


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## Michael Corleone

k8-W crashed... pilots killed


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> k8-W crashed... pilots killed



Terrible news.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Terrible news.


yes!  may god bless them and help their family grieve their loss.

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## Shahzaz ud din

*Two reserve fuel tanks of a Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) fall down on a paddy field!*


Two reserve fuel tanks of a Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) aircraft fall down on a paddy field in Nabinagar upazila of Brahmanbaria on August 8, 2017. Photo: Star

Star Online Report

Farmers were working peacefully on a farmland in Brahmanbaria today when a loud noise of something very heavy falling from the sky shattered the serenity and spread panic among them.

After a while, the same terrifying thud again; and none had any other option but to run away.






The two empty - 14 to 15 feet long - fuel tanks fell down from the aircraft in Nilnagar village around 11:00am on August 8, 2017. Photo: Star
This was the state of affairs when two reserve fuel tanks of a Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) aircraft fell down on a paddy field in Nabinagar upazila of Brahmanbaria, a local correspondent reports quoting police.

The two empty - 14 to 15 feet long - fuel tanks fell down from the aircraft in Nilnagar village around 11:00am but no one was injured in the incident.

On information, police recovered the tanks and brought it to the Nabinagar Police Station, Aslam Sikder, officer-in-charge of the police station said.

People could have died if two of the tanks dropped on any residence, said Abdur Rouf, chairman of Zinodpur union parishad.


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## Michael Corleone

DANCING GIRL said:


> *Two reserve fuel tanks of a Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) fall down on a paddy field!*
> 
> 
> Two reserve fuel tanks of a Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) aircraft fall down on a paddy field in Nabinagar upazila of Brahmanbaria on August 8, 2017. Photo: Star
> 
> Star Online Report
> 
> Farmers were working peacefully on a farmland in Brahmanbaria today when a loud noise of something very heavy falling from the sky shattered the serenity and spread panic among them.
> 
> After a while, the same terrifying thud again; and none had any other option but to run away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The two empty - 14 to 15 feet long - fuel tanks fell down from the aircraft in Nilnagar village around 11:00am on August 8, 2017. Photo: Star
> This was the state of affairs when two reserve fuel tanks of a Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) aircraft fell down on a paddy field in Nabinagar upazila of Brahmanbaria, a local correspondent reports quoting police.
> 
> The two empty - 14 to 15 feet long - fuel tanks fell down from the aircraft in Nilnagar village around 11:00am but no one was injured in the incident.
> 
> On information, police recovered the tanks and brought it to the Nabinagar Police Station, Aslam Sikder, officer-in-charge of the police station said.
> 
> People could have died if two of the tanks dropped on any residence, said Abdur Rouf, chairman of Zinodpur union parishad.


Dropping tanks is normal...


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## mb444

BAF is a demoralised and rudderless force. Dear god, let’s start over. There is no reason for this liability to continue. I don’t care who gets into power GOB needs to take control. Put BA or BN in charge of BAF. Sack the leadership.


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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> BAF is a demoralised and rudderless force. Dear god, let’s start over. There is no reason for this liability to continue. I don’t care who gets into power GOB needs to take control. Put BA or BN in charge of BAF. Sack the leadership.



I would not discount fifth columnists' involvement either in all these events. Incompetence is not the only cause.

Traitors are everywhere and we have become fat, lazy and non-complacent. I had one BAF guy tell me one of the RAW plants was a ab-initio trainer in Jessore and used to go meet with his 'handler' every Sunday outside town to pass on details. He eventually got caught. There were others with high-power SSB radios with encrypted transmission channels. Nowadays everyone can use encrypted apps for communication of course.

Why aren't we watching these traitors, so-called Muslims-in-name-only or Hindus themselves? If you back-stab the country of your birth as a fifth columnist - you deserve nothing but the electric chair...

There were plenty of RAW plants everywhere in BAF. They need to be found out and rooted out.

Also, we need to plant our own plants inside IAF operations and do a way better job than we are doing at present. Especially along border airbases. Money can do wonders....

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> I would not discount fifth columnists' involvement either in all these events. Incompetence is not the only cause.
> 
> Traitors are everywhere and we have become fat, lazy and non-complacent. I had one BAF guy tell me one of the RAW plants was a ab-initio trainer in Jessore and used to go meet with his 'handler' every Sunday outside town to pass on details. He eventually got caught. There were others with high-power SSB radios with encrypted transmission channels. Nowadays everyone can use encrypted apps for communication of course.
> 
> Why aren't we watching these traitors, so-called Muslims-in-name-only or Hindus themselves? If you back-stab the country of your birth as a fifth columnist - you deserve nothing but the electric chair...
> 
> There were plenty of RAW plants everywhere in BAF. They need to be found out and rooted out.
> 
> Also, we need to plant our own plants inside IAF operations and do a way better job than we are doing at present. Especially along border airbases. Money can do wonders....



Do you know what happened to the traitor?


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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> I would not discount fifth columnists' involvement either in all these events. Incompetence is not the only cause.
> 
> Traitors are everywhere and we have become fat, lazy and non-complacent. I had one BAF guy tell me one of the RAW plants was a ab-initio trainer in Jessore and used to go meet with his 'handler' every Sunday outside town to pass on details. He eventually got caught. There were others with high-power SSB radios with encrypted transmission channels. Nowadays everyone can use encrypted apps for communication of course.
> 
> Why aren't we watching these traitors, so-called Muslims-in-name-only or Hindus themselves? If you back-stab the country of your birth as a fifth columnist - you deserve nothing but the electric chair...
> 
> There were plenty of RAW plants everywhere in BAF. They need to be found out and rooted out.
> 
> Also, we need to plant our own plants inside IAF operations and do a way better job than we are doing at present. Especially along border airbases. Money can do wonders....



I don’t disagree with anything you say. But what capacity does BAF actually have that would bother anyone.

What are our military intelligence doing? We can not blame BAL for everything. The military has a duty of care and need to keep their house in order. 

BAF is pathetic due to lack of vision. As I said someone need to take charge at the moment it is lame duck.

We literally have hundreds of trained pilots for whom we have spent close to £500k to train who can not realistically be utilised for anything. As the rohingya debacle has proved BA and BN is on their own.

It’s time to rethink. If BAF can not protect our skies let BA and BN build up a missile force that would do the job within and beyond our border.

BAF really needs to justify its existence at this point and not be a clown of the region by developing capacities like aerobatics when it has no defensive or offensive capacities.


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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> Do you know what happened to the traitor?


 
Nope never found out. The BAF dude was a retired guy...but the point is BAF is rife with RAW plants. They have penetrated our defense apparatus with single-minded intent. Chaiwala is sparing no expense to keep us in check because this is crucial for them.



mb444 said:


> But what capacity does BAF actually have that would bother anyone.


 Well even defensively it needs to develop deterrents. A country of 160 million cannot let its Air Force be an Air Farce. You cannot let foreigners walk all over you and dictate your defense doctrine. Sometimes its better to purge and clean house and start over....



mb444 said:


> It’s time to rethink. If BAF can not protect our skies let BA and BN build up a missile force that would do the job within and beyond our border.


 Well SHORAD and Tactical Missiles can only do partial jobs from Army standpoint. But as we have seen from the recent conflicts in Syria and Afghanistan, air superiority has an extremely important role to play....drone or no drone.

One could argue that what good is a multi-crore MBT (T-72S cost is about Rs.5-6 crore, whereas T-90 is about Rs.12-13 crore) when you can defeat these with a hundred dollar RPG-29 round?

For that matter - you could even defeat multi-crore low flying helis with these advanced RPG's or a baktar shikan missile which aren't too expensive.

But air superiority via high flying drone or manned aircraft has its own intrinsic value which is far greater than simple recce tasks. I will pick this discussion up at a later time.

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## Shahzaz ud din

Bilal9 said:


> There were plenty of RAW plants everywhere in BAF. They need to be found out and rooted out.


Herculean task

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## ziaulislam

Bilal9 said:


> I would not discount fifth columnists' involvement either in all these events. Incompetence is not the only cause.
> 
> Traitors are everywhere and we have become fat, lazy and non-complacent. I had one BAF guy tell me one of the RAW plants was a ab-initio trainer in Jessore and used to go meet with his 'handler' every Sunday outside town to pass on details. He eventually got caught. There were others with high-power SSB radios with encrypted transmission channels. Nowadays everyone can use encrypted apps for communication of course.
> 
> Why aren't we watching these traitors, so-called Muslims-in-name-only or Hindus themselves? If you back-stab the country of your birth as a fifth columnist - you deserve nothing but the electric chair...
> 
> There were plenty of RAW plants everywhere in BAF. They need to be found out and rooted out.
> 
> Also, we need to plant our own plants inside IAF operations and do a way better job than we are doing at present. Especially along border airbases. Money can do wonders....


look people voted for friendly pro indian govt, why does BAF even need to exist..if bangladesh has any issue it has super power india to help it..
i think BAF is okay with current level, there is no need to spend on navy either, just keep land forces and save the money


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## Flynn Swagmire

ziaulislam said:


> look people voted


When?


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

ziaulislam said:


> look people voted for friendly pro indian govt, why does BAF even need to exist..if bangladesh has any issue it has super power india to help it..
> i think BAF is okay with current level, there is no need to spend on navy either, just keep land forces and save the money



you have brought up a really burning issue that being discussed throughout the world..... e.g. what would happen to the USAF when Mexico and Canada divide the USA among themselves?

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## monitor

#Exclusive












এই দুইটিই বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর কেনা C-130J Super Hercules.

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ব্রিটিশ রয়েল এয়ারফোর্স থেকে যে ২ টি C-130J কিনেছে সেগুলোর সিরিয়াল নাম্বার যথাক্রমে ZH881 (নিচেরটা) এবং ZH883 (উপরেরটা)।

... See More



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## The Ronin

Newly overhauled F-7MB of Bangladesh Air Force during flight test.

Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center (BAC) has overhauled these aircraft and expanding it's lifetime.

BAF has plan to replace these aircrafts within 2020. BAF has 8-10 F-7MB in their current inventory






The Bangladesh Air Force purchased 2 x C-130J (C-130 Mk5) from the Royal Air Force in recent months. The aircraft will be delivered in Q1/2019.

Aircraft with RAF serial numbers ZH881 and ZH883 were purchased by the BAF.









881 retained the refuelling gear in December 2017.






883 retained the refuelling gear in December 2017.

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## ghost250



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## 帅的一匹

im very curious why.BD is more interested in procuring transport airplane and trainer, and not fighter jets....

to make the force looks less aggresive?

or J10 deal will be made public after the election?


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## Avicenna

wanglaokan said:


> im very curious why.BD is more interested in procuring transport airplane and trainer, and not fighter jets....
> 
> to make the force looks less aggresive?
> 
> or J10 deal will be made public after the election?



To transport mangoes to Turkey.

Lol.

I am sure there will be some news at some point.

It's inevitable that at least the F-7MB have to be replaced.

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## The Ronin

wanglaokan said:


> im very curious why.BD is more interested in procuring transport airplane and trainer



Gotta replace the existing C-130B/E fleet (at least 65 years old) and L-39Z trainer (expected to retire soon).

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## mb444

wanglaokan said:


> im very curious why.BD is more interested in procuring transport airplane and trainer, and not fighter jets....
> 
> to make the force looks less aggresive?
> 
> or J10 deal will be made public after the election?



Primarily because BAF is run by retards.


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## Shahzaz ud din

The Ronin said:


> at least 65 years old


So this 65 years oldC-130B actually belongs to PAF. Kindly return this as soon as possible.


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## Michael Corleone

DANCING GIRL said:


> So this 65 years oldC-130B actually belongs to PAF. Kindly return this as soon as possible.


Bought in the 80-90s why don’t you start with your citizens stranded in the east for a change

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## Avicenna

DANCING GIRL said:


> So this 65 years oldC-130B actually belongs to PAF. Kindly return this as soon as possible.



I know your trolling, but at least try to be an informed troll.


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## The Ronin

People criticize a lot about trainer and transport procurement. But how much do we have actually?? Only one squadron of IJT and AJT. Even less after 2 AJT and one IJT crash. And i said previously that L-39 will be replaced. Plus C-130J will replace the C-130B/E and we require at least 12 transport ac. So our impatience critics should do some reality check before nagging about MRCA. It's already clear that they won't say anything about MRCA this year, that doesn't mean they can't buy other stuff. So why waste time crying about it every time?? After election they can start their criticism if they don't see any progress. Till then snooze for 7 months.



DANCING GIRL said:


> So this 65 years oldC-130B actually belongs to PAF. Kindly return this as soon as possible.

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## 帅的一匹



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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> People criticize a lot about trainer and transport procurement. But how much do we have actually?? Only one squadron of IJT and AJT. Even less after 2 AJT and one IJT crash. And i said previously that L-39 will be replaced. Plus C-130J will replace the C-130B/E and we require at least 12 transport ac. So our impatience critics should do some reality check before nagging about MRCA. It's already clear that they won't say anything about MRCA this year, that doesn't mean they can't buy other stuff. So why waste time crying about it every time?? After election they can start their criticism if they don't see any progress. Till then snooze for 7 months.




Criticism is absolutely valid. Let’s take trainers for instance. Why bother buying any without actual jets. How long do you actually think it takes to train a fighter pilot? And do realise that you can not actually complete fighter pilot training without actual fighter jets. The yaks were a complete and utter waste of time without complementary jets.

And as to transport jets, why do we need them. To support UN mission or logistical reasons during floods etc.

First it would be cheaper to charter a jet to transport UN troops and Helios are more helpful in disaster zones than these transport planes.

BAF is run by morons. It’s leadership needs to be sacked. BAF lacks doctrine, purpose,vision or discipline. Disband it and let BAand BN take over.


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## The Ronin

There are 2-3 pilots available for each fighters AFAIK. Each AJT pilot needs at least 1/2 years training. Now how much pilots do you need for 16 fighters and how long will it take to train them?? And BAF already issued tender long ago. If the other side play democracy with selling aircraft you can't blame only BAF. Plus budget and government's eagerness also matters here. 

About transport AC, why only talk about UN troop transport and disaster relief operation?? What will you do when army needs to transport huge amount of troops and equipment in case of war or big military exercise like we do in Gold Island?? Do you think only 6 transport will suffice??


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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 486960


sexy! how is the crash rate now? the domestic engines are on all models now?


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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> There are 2-3 pilots available for each fighters AFAIK. Each AJT pilot needs at least 1/2 years training. Now how much pilots do you need for 16 fighters and how long will it take to train them?? And BAF already issued tender long ago. If the other side play democracy with selling aircraft you can't blame only BAF. Plus budget and government's eagerness also matters here.
> 
> About transport AC, why only talk about UN troop transport and disaster relief operation?? What will you do when army needs to transport huge amount of troops and equipment in case of war or big military exercise like we do in Gold Island?? Do you think only 6 transport will suffice??




The failure of BAF lies entirely with BAF. Failure in tender negotiations is no ones but BAF. They do not know what they are doing, it’s because they have no vision or strategy whatsoever. 

The force have allowed degradation ofservice and have turned it into a joke. BAF has choice of going Chinese Russian or western platform. These are known variables, if plan a does not work you shift to plan b and c. Basic contingency planning. BAF failed to produce even plan a. Neither GOB or sellers can be blamed in face of BAF management Ineptitude.

As to transport planes.... what is the actual purpose of BAF. Protect BD skies. It will fail in that mission even against the monkeys. BAF will be eliminated before it has a chance to transport any troops anywhere. 

Supporting war games or natural disaster is a secondary objective but BAF is currently prioritising developing a aerobatics squadron!!!!! 

I am at a loss to insult these fools any further. BAF is a failed organisation and BD is damaged the longer it exists.

It really is time to go back to the drawing board. If we can not procure jets , develop an arsenal of defensive and offensive missiles until jets can be procured. Disband BAF and let BA and BN take over.


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## 帅的一匹

Michael Corleone said:


> sexy! how is the crash rate now? the domestic engines are on all models now?


i think majority are still AL 31FN. there is no crash recently.


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## The Ronin

mb444 said:


> They do not know what they are doing, it’s because they have no vision or strategy whatsoever.



Look like you know everything. 



mb444 said:


> BAF has choice of going Chinese Russian or western platform. These are known variables, if plan a does not work you shift to plan b and c. Basic contingency planning. BAF failed to produce even plan a. Neither GOB or sellers can be blamed in face of BAF management Ineptitude.



Chinese and Russian were the Plan A, still is and always will be due to budget unless govt change the plan. And there's rumor for single engine tender. Another rumor is BAF is trying to shift to European MRCA after Russia's Mig diplomacy which can be your so called plan B. Now if you only point finger at BAF and want to overlook US sanction and Russia's mafia style business then it's pointless to argue with you.



mb444 said:


> but BAF is currently prioritising developing a aerobatics squadron!!!!!



BAF already perform aerobatics in victory day parade with K-8W. And only few trainers from the IJT squadron will participates in the aerobatics besides performing regular training.



mb444 said:


> BAF is a failed organisation and BD is damaged the longer it exists.





mb444 said:


> Disband BAF and let BA and BN take over.



??? What benefit will come out form this and who will enjoy it?? It's like you cut off your whole leg because of an infection. While you people say "দুষ্ট গরুর চেয়ে শূন্য গোয়াল ভাল" i say "নাই মামার চেয়ে কানা মামা ভাল"। I wish you all critics and trolls get whooped seriously after election. 



mb444 said:


> develop an arsenal of defensive and offensive missiles



They might be working on it (Bajro project).


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## polanski

The Ronin said:


> Russia's mafia style business then it's pointless to argue with


Why did Bangladeshi Air Force Officers think that Russia will play nice with Bangladesh when they never played nice with India for 70 years. Russian blackmails Armenia, Belarus and Azerbaijan over Iskander procurements. Russia blackmailed Belarus over Buk-MB deliveries to Myanmar. Eventually Russian agreed to supply missile parts to Belarus for Buk-MB. Russia blackmailed Turkey to buy S-400 otherwise Nuclear Powerplant deal was off by the Russian. Russia blackmailed Belarus over gas prices of Gazprom. Putin didn't hesitate to turn off gas tap of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Poland. 

All military transactions have a political and economic price to pay, East or West. 

Maybe Bangladeshi Air Force officers are school boys so that they don't know that Russia will play mafia trick or Shiek Hasina offered a cool hand job to Putin during her 2013 visit to Moscow. 
Don't blame others for your incompetence. When you invite tender, open the tender for multiplayer competition. Canada, Germany, Denmark, UK, USA, Russia, India, Malaysia, Singapore and Brazil invite multi-vendors to participate in a tender. 
American allows multiple domestic vendors to participate in a tender. 
You screwed up and blamed Russian for that. From the sales points of view, Russian screwed you. I think thats fairly simple equations. Wakeup and salvage whatever left. 
The West will help if you seek help. Don't blame budget either because you have $3.45B to spend. The UK, Italy, France and Sweden offer credit these days not just Chinese. Heck American Citi Group may offer credit for aircraft procurement if you ask. 
Stop blaming others for your misfortune. I am guessing you're a Muslim. There is a saying in Muslim faith which I heard from my Muslim colleague and she said... "God doesn't help those who doesn't help themselves". Help yourself or nobody will help you. Stop blaming Russian for your stupid act.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Why did Bangladeshi Air Force Officers think that Russia will play nice with Bangladesh when they never played nice with India for 70 years. Russian blackmails Armenia, Belarus and Azerbaijan over Iskander procurements. Russia blackmailed Belarus over Buk-MB deliveries to Myanmar. Eventually Russian agreed to supply missile parts to Belarus for Buk-MB. Russia blackmailed Turkey to buy S-400 otherwise Nuclear Powerplant deal was off by the Russian. Russia blackmailed Belarus over gas prices of Gazprom. Putin didn't hesitate to turn off gas tap of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Poland.
> 
> All military transactions have a political and economic price to pay, East or West.
> 
> Maybe Bangladeshi Air Force officers are school boys so that they don't know that Russia will play mafia trick or Shiek Hasina offered a cool hand job to Putin during her 2013 visit to Moscow.
> Don't blame others for your incompetence. When you invite tender, open the tender for multiplayer competition. Canada, Germany, Denmark, UK, USA, Russia, India, Malaysia, Singapore and Brazil invite multi-vendors to participate in a tender.
> American allows multiple domestic vendors to participate in a tender.
> You screwed up and blamed Russian for that. From the sales points of view, Russian screwed you. I think thats fairly simple equations. Wakeup and salvage whatever left.
> The West will help if you seek help. Don't blame budget either because you have $3.45B to spend. The UK, Italy, France and Sweden offer credit these days not just Chinese. Heck American Citi Group may offer credit for aircraft procurement if you ask.
> Stop blaming others for your misfortune. I am guessing you're a Muslim. There is a saying in Muslim faith which I heard from my Muslim colleague and she said... "God doesn't help those who doesn't help themselves". Help yourself or nobody will help you. Stop blaming Russian for your stupid act.



This is actually a really good post.

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## polanski

The Ronin said:


> Same with the F-16 and gripen. It's not only up to our gov't and BAF, it's also up to seller and other govt. USA is the best example. How about Qatari Typhoon deal, the price hiked after Saudi blockade.??


Here are no string attached deal for Bangladesh:
F-16, Gripen, Typhoon, Super Hornet. 
Trump will sell F-16 and Super Hornet to anyone who is willing to pay. Let the vendor manage the headache not you. Set a lead time 6-12 months, they will figure out how to deliver the damn thing. 
Bangladesh may not be able to pay $110m/F-16 Block 70/72 base price but can afford $70m/super hornet. Gripen E is $85m a pop and no string attached for engine. Italian variant of typhoon is cheaper than British variant but still way too expensive $120m/bird for Bangladesh. Italian are more likely to compromise to secure a order than British. But Bangladesh has better relationship with Britain. British offered $3B credit to RMAF. 
Benefits of having western platforms is that you source support and armament from Canada , Australia (Super Hornet), Italy, Britain, Germany (Typhoon), Sweden (Gripen) or South Africa (Gripen), Turkey (F-16). 
Don't BS me. I have been to many sales meetings than anyone in this forum. Your Kornet deal sucked because single vendor approach. You are a small buyer. You must invite multiple vendors to compete and take advantage of competition. There are many anti-tank missile manufacturers in East Europe and West. Why did you not approach Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Poland, France, Sweden, Bulgaria, Germany and Italy offer anti-tank missiles. Why do you suck Russian BS? Looks like bad habits and poor understanding how defense industry works. Defence Industry is a competitive market. Just place Russian in a competition and they will bend over (Example Indian MRCA) or simply run (Example Brazilian MRCA).

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## TopCat

polanski said:


> Here are no string attached deal for Bangladesh:
> F-16, Gripen, Typhoon, Super Hornet.
> Trump will sell F-16 and Super Hornet to anyone who is willing to pay. Let the vendor manage the headache not you. Set a lead time 6-12 months, they will figure out how to deliver the damn thing.
> Bangladesh may not be able to pay $110m/F-16 Block 70/72 base price but can afford $70m/super hornet. Gripen E is $85m a pop and no string attached for engine. Italian variant of typhoon is cheaper than British variant but still way too expensive $120m/bird for Bangladesh. Italian are more likely to compromise to secure a order than British. But Bangladesh has better relationship with Britain. British offered $3B credit to RMAF.
> Benefits of having western platforms is that you source support and armament from Canada , Australia (Super Hornet), Italy, Britain, Germany (Typhoon), Sweden (Gripen) or South Africa (Gripen), Turkey (F-16).
> Don't BS me. I have been to many sales meetings than anyone in this forum. Your Kornet deal sucked because single vendor approach. You are a small buyer. You must invite multiple vendors to compete and take advantage of competition. There are many anti-tank missile manufacturers in East Europe and West. Why did you not approach Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Poland, France, Sweden, Bulgaria, Germany and Italy offer anti-tank missiles. Why do you suck Russian BS? Looks like bad habits and poor understanding how defense industry works. Defence Industry is a competitive market. Just place Russian in a competition and they will bend over (Example Indian MRCA) or simply run (Example Brazilian MRCA).


I will take 70m for super hornet any day. It will also help us politically with USA. J-10 can back this up.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> The failure of BAF lies entirely with BAF. Failure in tender negotiations is no ones but BAF. They do not know what they are doing, it’s because they have no vision or strategy whatsoever.
> 
> The force have allowed degradation ofservice and have turned it into a joke. BAF has choice of going Chinese Russian or western platform. These are known variables, if plan a does not work you shift to plan b and c. Basic contingency planning. BAF failed to produce even plan a. Neither GOB or sellers can be blamed in face of BAF management Ineptitude.
> 
> As to transport planes.... what is the actual purpose of BAF. Protect BD skies. It will fail in that mission even against the monkeys. BAF will be eliminated before it has a chance to transport any troops anywhere.
> 
> Supporting war games or natural disaster is a secondary objective but BAF is currently prioritising developing a aerobatics squadron!!!!!
> 
> I am at a loss to insult these fools any further. BAF is a failed organisation and BD is damaged the longer it exists.
> 
> It really is time to go back to the drawing board. If we can not procure jets , develop an arsenal of defensive and offensive missiles until jets can be procured. Disband BAF and let BA and BN take over.


Can’t blame them alone when good fellas were purged in BNP times. All we got now is degenerates.



polanski said:


> Russia blackmailed Turkey to buy S-400 otherwise Nuclear Powerplant deal was off by the Russian.


Your third line proves you’re talking out of your ***.



polanski said:


> You screwed up and blamed Russian for that. From the sales points of view, Russian screwed you.


But yes I agree with the rest

Lads, it’s been around 5-6 years that I’m with y’all in this forum on and off. It’s been over 10 years since we got something that can be called fighter jets... let’s stop speculating and bullshiting until the election is over... tbh it’s exhausting

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> Obviously Russia is partially responsi





polanski said:


> Here are no string attached deal for Bangladesh:
> F-16, Gripen, Typhoon, Super Hornet.
> Trump will sell F-16 and Super Hornet to anyone who is willing to pay. Let the vendor manage the headache not you. Set a lead time 6-12 months, they will figure out how to deliver the damn thing.
> Bangladesh may not be able to pay $110m/F-16 Block 70/72 base price but can afford $70m/super hornet. Gripen E is $85m a pop and no string attached for engine. Italian variant of typhoon is cheaper than British variant but still way too expensive $120m/bird for Bangladesh. Italian are more likely to compromise to secure a order than British. But Bangladesh has better relationship with Britain. British offered $3B credit to RMAF.
> Benefits of having western platforms is that you source support and armament from Canada , Australia (Super Hornet), Italy, Britain, Germany (Typhoon), Sweden (Gripen) or South Africa (Gripen), Turkey (F-16).
> Don't BS me. I have been to many sales meetings than anyone in this forum. Your Kornet deal sucked because single vendor approach. You are a small buyer. You must invite multiple vendors to compete and take advantage of competition. There are many anti-tank missile manufacturers in East Europe and West. Why did you not approach Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Poland, France, Sweden, Bulgaria, Germany and Italy offer anti-tank missiles. Why do you suck Russian BS? Looks like bad habits and poor understanding how defense industry works. Defence Industry is a competitive market. Just place Russian in a competition and they will bend over (Example Indian MRCA) or simply run (Example Brazilian MRCA).


miyavhai,apni ki by any chance "raihan al beruni" nakii??

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## The Ronin

Looks like you are missing two thing. First one budget. Yes we are a small buyer cause we have small budget. Yes we can afford western aircraft but still in few amount. And about credits not only aircraft but also ammo, spares and other things matters. If there's no string attached then why we didn't get 16/20 rolls royce engine for C-130, WC-130, Phalanx CIWS for our Hamilton class cutter?? Why didn't we get permissions for arming our cutters with Otomat missile?? Are you forgetting that we need your congress approval for anything related to american military equipment?? Look how Turkey and India faced problem because of S-400 deal.

You got a wrong idea that we only buy things from Russia and China because of our officers. Let's say our army tried to buy Long range MLRS from Brazil and Turkey (according to a member here). But Turkey asked 400 million per battery. So they are back to Chinese. So like one idiot said "No money no honey".

And the second thing is i didn't talk about Kornet. I talked about buying ATGM Tigr vehicle with Russian credit which they didn't approve. Read carefully.



shourov323 said:


> miyavhai,apni ki by any chance "raihan al beruni" nakii??



That came in my mind too. 



Michael Corleone said:


> let’s stop speculating and bullshiting until the election is over



মানবজাতির বড়ই তাড়াহুড়া।

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## bdslph

there are simple offer and payment systems 
depends on the how we deal with it 
what we are doing now blame russia for this and that blame other for this and that 
we cannot afford much for the european and western planes 
even indian have a hard time they are rich and have resource and also pakistan 
you have money go and buy F16 BLOCK 70/72 Near to 1.6 to 2 billion USD 16 to 17 aircraft including everything  
western and eu easy to sanction latin american one use american things also the swedish jas gripen 
india has TEJAS if you want it hehehe ................ 
for the BEST RESULT IS CHINA J10 C BUY 2 SQUAD for NOW


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## Flynn Swagmire

Western countries are our biggest export customer. So, we should prefer them over Russia and China or anyone else...

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force lab is getting a lot of new equipment. This is some of the new gear.

PCI board manufacturing machinery is also to be installed soon.

#BD Military

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force lab is getting a lot of new equipment. This is some of the new gear.
> 
> PCI board manufacturing machinery is also to be installed soon.
> 
> #BD Military


People think only getting show pieces is necessary for an air force. These are the things we often don’t talk about in this forum

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> People think only getting show pieces is necessary for an air force. These are the things we often don’t talk about in this forum


I agree there are many things are necessary for a successful airforce but are these really necessary for a clown force without an iota of strategic objective or means to achieving them.

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force lab is getting a lot of new equipment. This is some of the new gear.
> 
> PCI board manufacturing machinery is also to be installed soon.
> 
> #BD Military



Looks more like a model lab in an first year university course.


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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> Look like you know everything.
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese and Russian were the Plan A, still is and always will be due to budget unless govt change the plan. And there's rumor for single engine tender. Another rumor is BAF is trying to shift to European MRCA after Russia's Mig diplomacy which can be your so called plan B. Now if you only point finger at BAF and want to overlook US sanction and Russia's mafia style business then it's pointless to argue with you.
> 
> 
> 
> BAF already perform aerobatics in victory day parade with K-8W. And only few trainers from the IJT squadron will participates in the aerobatics besides performing regular training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ??? What benefit will come out form this and who will enjoy it?? It's like you cut off your whole leg because of an infection. While you people say "দুষ্ট গরুর চেয়ে শূন্য গোয়াল ভাল" i say "নাই মামার চেয়ে কানা মামা ভাল"। I wish you all critics and trolls get whooped seriously after election.
> 
> 
> 
> They might be working on it (Bajro project).




You come up with as many excuses as you like but culpability lies with BAF. 

If BD does not have money why bother with floating a tender? Why create a single source tender only to have it fail, what prework was done beforehand. Where does the blame lies. 

You probably do not have experience of tendering process so you are making such statements. It’s ok, but let me tell you who does work in this area that a tender only goes out following extensive preparatory work where you examine the market, you examine potential bidders, you assess your own power dynamics vis-a-vis potential sellers etc.

A failed tender comes down to the purchasing company never the sellers. Don’t believe me please go canvass any procurement specialist.

Stop perpetuating excuse for BAF failures to nonsense such as there is going to be delay because of upcoming sham election. Why should this matter, BD is not a democracy with an effective opposition so that political “purdah” comes into effect prior to election. Anyhow military purchases if transparent should be above political calculus. 

Disbanding BAF will have great advantage. The resources could be diverted to effective organisation such as BN and BA. 

Currently BAF is a force that will fail at every level to defend our skies. Would you disagree with this basic statement?

If you accept that BAF is a failed organisation then it comes down to what to do with it. I propose starting over as it is rotten to the core and it can not be reformed. 

At some point you need to cut your losses and face reality. An ineffective Air Force is not in BDs interest, we need to defend our skies and BAF can’t do it as demonstrated during the rohingya debacle. Holding on to this white elephant fundamentally degrades our security. 

We need to look to the future and be honest with ourselves. We need to innovatively maximise our defense capacity within our means and in response to our enemies. We are in a situation I believe where we actually do not have an airforce. 

It’s a terrible reality but without acceptance of this we can not move forward.

Having accepted this we need to set goals. First denial of our air space via multilayered missile capabilities. Who is best to direct such an initiative, I would say BA.

Second objective extension of missile capacity beyond our borders to restrict operational freedom of the enemy. Again army or a new missile focused defense arm with clear doctrine is necessary. 

Third objective develop an effective offensive airforce. look at options and develop as best as possible as quickly as possible with a rebranding and a new purpose that dumps BAF and it’s legacy of utter failure since inception.

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## polanski

The Ronin said:


> If there's no string attached then why we didn't get 16/20 rolls royce engine for C-130, WC-130, Phalanx CIWS for our Hamilton class cutter?? Look how Turkey and India faced problem because of S-400 deal.
> 
> You got a wrong idea that we only buy things from Russia and China because of our officers. Let's say our army tried to buy Long range MLRS from Brazil and Turkey (according to a member here). But Turkey asked 400 million per battery. So they are back to Chinese. So like one idiot said "No money no honey".
> 
> And the second thing is i didn't talk about Kornet. I talked about buying ATGM Tigr vehicle with Russian credit which they didn't approve. Read carefully.
> That came in my mind too.
> 
> মানবজাতির বড়ই তাড়াহুড়া।


To buy CIWS, Engine and Harpoon, you need to go through *Foreign Military Sale* not *Excess Defence Article.* These are two different things*.* Hamilton class came through EDA. That's why you can't get it. You have to apply for foreign military sale to upgrade Hamilton class. I don't get it, Bangladeshi don't apply for foreign military sale but blame American not giving offensive armament like you blaming Russian for screwing Bangladesh Air Force.


Here are few rules for American military procurement.

New procurements and upgradation of equipment go to foreign military sale hence approved by Congress.

Refurbished second-hand goods go through excess defence article.


For Russian interest in Turkey and India is more than S-400. Russian wants a bigger piece of the pie than just S-400. Turkey has to give up something to get a Nuclear deal. The nuclear deal is worth $20B. It's big money for Russian state which is suffering from many financial challenges.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...uilt-nuclear-plant-facing-delay-idUSKCN1GL1W2

There many MLRS on this planet which is cheaper than even Chinese if the price is your number one concern. Belarusian Polonez is based on Chinese A300 but cheaper than Chinese A300. Serbian sumadija is also cheaper than Chinese A300.


Serbian Milosh, Serbian Lazar, Ukrainian KrAZ Spartan and Finland's Patria AMV can be configured with ATGM. There are many options on this planet.


It's your country bro, not mine. I don't care if you buy or don't buy.


You are asking money from us to feed refugees but its your job to defend your territory. You failed to defend your territory then hypocritically go to America and EU to ask donations to feed refugees. Why don't go to Putin and Xi, then ask donations to feed refugees?

Please speak in english. Do I have to use google translator to communicate with you?

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## TopCat

polanski said:


> You are asking money from us to feed refugees but its your job to defend your territory. You failed to defend your territory then hypocritically go to America and EU to ask donations to feed refugees. Why don't go to Putin and Xi, then ask donations to feed refugees?



You are right on the money....


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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> How?? By letting refugees entering our territory??


Its not refugee entering the country (which is alright) but pushing them inside our territory labelling them as Bangladeshi. That made us a party to the whole episode. Most of the Bangladeshis dont have this simple common sense.

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## polanski

The Ronin said:


> How?? By letting refugees entering our territory??


I just googled and found tons of evidence. Refugees are one of them. One million refugees! You allowed one million refugees! You guys must be very generous people who destroy thier forest and let one million refugees settle in their motherland. 




Rohingya Refugees in Bangladeshi territory 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-where-rohingya-shelter-idUSKCN1GD54X?il=0 

Besides, here are more evidence...





Transocean Offshore Drilling Rig escorted by Myanmar Navy Frigate within Bangladeshi Exclusive economic zone





Myanmar Air Force Helicopter is hovering over Bangladeshi Airspace. There are many photos in internet that might be harmful to your national internal interest. 

Google says Myanmar border police killed Bangladeshi border guard on and off. 

BTW, that photo of lab doesnt make sense because Myanmar can bomb inside Bangladesh if there is a real war. Myanmar has better air defence and a better air force than Bangladesh. 

Look I don't have time to argue for nothing. Leave it whether you guys think good for your country. one thing more sure, it will messy because refugeess always smuggle arms and drugs to feed themselves. This is how it works globally.


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## Destranator

Hi Beruni,

While I agree with many of your opinions, let us not be so harsh towards our own country.
The Rohingya issue is a big challenge for Bangladesh.

How's the weather in Perth BTW?




polanski said:


> I just googled and found tons of evidence. Refugees are one of them. One million refugees! You allowed one million refugees! You guys must be very generous people who destroy thier forest and let one million refugees settle in their motherland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rohingya Refugees in Bangladeshi territory
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-where-rohingya-shelter-idUSKCN1GD54X?il=0
> 
> Besides, here are more evidence...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transocean Offshore Drilling Rig escorted by Myanmar Navy Frigate within Bangladeshi Exclusive economic zone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar Air Force Helicopter is hovering over Bangladeshi Airspace. There are many photos in internet that might be harmful to your national internal interest.
> 
> Google says Myanmar border police killed Bangladeshi border guard on and off.
> 
> BTW, that photo of lab doesnt make sense because Myanmar can bomb inside Bangladesh if there is a real war. Myanmar has better air defence and a better air force than Bangladesh.
> 
> Look I don't have time to argue for nothing. Leave it whether you guys think good for your country. one thing more sure, it will messy because refugeess always smuggle arms and drugs to feed themselves. This is how it works globally.





polanski said:


> I just googled and found tons of evidence. Refugees are one of them. One million refugees! You allowed one million refugees! You guys must be very generous people who destroy thier forest and let one million refugees settle in their motherland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rohingya Refugees in Bangladeshi territory
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-where-rohingya-shelter-idUSKCN1GD54X?il=0
> 
> Besides, here are more evidence...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transocean Offshore Drilling Rig escorted by Myanmar Navy Frigate within Bangladeshi Exclusive economic zone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar Air Force Helicopter is hovering over Bangladeshi Airspace. There are many photos in internet that might be harmful to your national internal interest.
> 
> Google says Myanmar border police killed Bangladeshi border guard on and off.
> 
> BTW, that photo of lab doesnt make sense because Myanmar can bomb inside Bangladesh if there is a real war. Myanmar has better air defence and a better air force than Bangladesh.
> 
> Look I don't have time to argue for nothing. Leave it whether you guys think good for your country. one thing more sure, it will messy because refugeess always smuggle arms and drugs to feed themselves. This is how it works globally.

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## ghost250

polanski said:


> I just googled and found tons of evidence. Refugees are one of them. One million refugees! You allowed one million refugees! You guys must be very generous people who destroy thier forest and let one million refugees settle in their motherland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rohingya Refugees in Bangladeshi territory
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-where-rohingya-shelter-idUSKCN1GD54X?il=0
> 
> Besides, here are more evidence...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transocean Offshore Drilling Rig escorted by Myanmar Navy Frigate within Bangladeshi Exclusive economic zone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar Air Force Helicopter is hovering over Bangladeshi Airspace. There are many photos in internet that might be harmful to your national internal interest.
> 
> Google says Myanmar border police killed Bangladeshi border guard on and off.
> 
> BTW, that photo of lab doesnt make sense because Myanmar can bomb inside Bangladesh if there is a real war. Myanmar has better air defence and a better air force than Bangladesh.
> 
> Look I don't have time to argue for nothing. Leave it whether you guys think good for your country. one thing more sure, it will messy because refugeess always smuggle arms and drugs to feed themselves. This is how it works globally.


how r u borhani saheb??

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> how r u borhani saheb??


What you mean? Is this Bangladeshi language? Please speak in english.



Al-Ansar said:


> Hi Beruni,
> 
> While I agree with many of your opinions, let us not be so harsh towards our own country.
> The Rohingya issue is a big challenge for Bangladesh.
> 
> How's the weather in Perth BTW?


What do you mean by Our? Don't count me with you. I am not a f$%king Bangladeshi. 

I never been to Perth, Eastern Ontario, Canada? I am sure you have never been to Canada either.


----------



## Destranator

polanski said:


> What you mean? Is this Bangladeshi language? Please speak in english.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by Our? Don't count me with you. I am not a f$%king Bangladeshi.
> 
> I never been to Perth, Eastern Ontario, Canada? I am sure you have never been to Canada either.



Oh come on, Raihan bhai.

I recognised you by the pattern of your written English in different forums.

As I said, I agree with a lot of what you have to say about modernisation of our air force.

I am glad that Dhaka Tribune chose to publish your articles as there needs to more public dialogue on defence matters.

Poor support from China and Russia in regards to the Rohigya has to an extent swung public opinion in favour of defence spending.


----------



## The Ronin

polanski said:


> I just googled and found tons of evidence. Refugees are one of them. One million refugees! You allowed one million refugees! You guys must be very generous people who destroy thier forest and let one million refugees settle in their motherland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rohingya Refugees in Bangladeshi territory
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-where-rohingya-shelter-idUSKCN1GD54X?il=0
> 
> Besides, here are more evidence...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transocean Offshore Drilling Rig escorted by Myanmar Navy Frigate within Bangladeshi Exclusive economic zone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar Air Force Helicopter is hovering over Bangladeshi Airspace. There are many photos in internet that might be harmful to your national internal interest.
> 
> Google says Myanmar border police killed Bangladeshi border guard on and off.



Oh yeah what do you suggest then?? Start a war?? And destroy the economy and bring more suffering?? And for your kind info that rig incident was handled by our diplomats and military properly. After that govt settled the maritime dispute. That's what started Navy's (and other forces) modernization under FG30. What?? You didn't google these??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bangladesh–Myanmar_naval_standoff

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...67597275445/&usg=AOvVaw0Lp6f9wbVGpLRldDFGxTcK



polanski said:


> BTW, that photo of lab doesnt make sense because Myanmar can bomb inside Bangladesh if there is a real war. Myanmar has better air defence and a better air force than Bangladesh.



With what?? Their Mig-29s are only for air superiority role. And their AD doesn't matter unless we don't invade their airspace. Just because they outnumber us in aircraft doesn't mean our fighter can't fight with them. And i hardly believe that they have enough ammo to launch an air assault against us. Not a single photo of their Mig with full armament is available on the internet. And what's this have anything to do with that lab?? That's a good initiative to become self-dependent and gather knowledge for our students. Stop saying BS.



Cycle Macson said:


> Western countries are our biggest export customer. So, we should prefer them over Russia and China or anyone else...



BS logic.



mb444 said:


> Stop perpetuating excuse for BAF failures to nonsense such as there is going to be delay because of upcoming sham election. Why should this matter



Because they don't want anything like the previous Mig scandal. Besides China,Russia and other countries political support also matters here.



shourov323 said:


> how r u borhani saheb??



actually @mb444 sounds more like Al Beruni.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

After election i think BAF will disclose minimum two tender about which country will supply MRCA. BN will also disclose submarine deal. Before election govt. do not want to frightened India.

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## Flynn Swagmire

The Ronin said:


> BS logic.


How?


----------



## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Oh yeah what do you suggest then?? Start a war?? And destroy the economy and bring more suffering?? And for your kind info that rig incident was handled by our diplomats and military properly. After that govt settled the maritime dispute. That's what started Navy's (and other forces) modernization under FG30. What?? You didn't google these??
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bangladesh–Myanmar_naval_standoff
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwipvZ6z3K_cAhXQXisKHc6-AUMQFggnMAA&url=https://www.facebook.com/BD.Defence/photos/inside-story-of-naf-war/594767597275445/&usg=AOvVaw0Lp6f9wbVGpLRldDFGxTcK
> 
> 
> 
> With what?? Their Mig-29s are only for air superiority role. And their AD doesn't matter unless we don't invade their airspace. Just because they outnumber us in aircraft doesn't mean our fighter can't fight with them. And i hardly believe that they have enough ammo to launch an air assault against us. Not a single photo of their Mig with full armament is available on the internet. And what's this have anything to do with that lab?? That's a good initiative to become self-dependent and gather knowledge for our students. Stop saying BS.
> 
> 
> 
> BS logic.
> 
> 
> 
> Because they don't want anything like the previous Mig scandal. Besides China,Russia and other countries political support also matters here.
> 
> 
> 
> actually @mb444 sounds more like Al Beruni.


You people likes to live in lala land.. 
Mr. plensky have valid points. Our politicians never understand the meaning sovereignty. British took over entire Arakan and later Burma only because those savages killed one of the British officer in Coxs Bazar. How many time we needed to get raped before we can say lubricant needed.

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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> Oh come on, Raihan bhai.
> 
> I recognised you by the pattern of your written English in different forums.
> 
> As I said, I agree with a lot of what you have to say about modernisation of our air force.
> 
> I am glad that Dhaka Tribune chose to publish your articles as there needs to more public dialogue on defence matters.
> 
> Poor support from China and Russia in regards to the Rohigya has to an extent swung public opinion in favour of defence spending.



Bengalis always love to make things personal.

His identity doesn't matter. Personally, i don't think he is Bengali.

What he is saying however is extremely valid whether some here like it or not.

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## mb444

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> After election i think BAF will disclose minimum two tender about which country will supply MRCA. BN will also disclose submarine deal. Before election govt. do not want to frightened India.



What are you basing this on?

Why would india be bothered about Hasina given she is only in power with Indian support overriding BD democracy. 

What do you think will happen india will just switch support to BNP!!!! India has put all its basket in BAL basket. 

BAL is subservient to India, expect no deal even if there was any will in BAF due to lack of competence.


----------



## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> You come up with as many excuses as you like but culpability lies with BAF.
> 
> If BD does not have money why bother with floating a tender? Why create a single source tender only to have it fail, what prework was done beforehand. Where does the blame lies.
> 
> You probably do not have experience of tendering process so you are making such statements. It’s ok, but let me tell you who does work in this area that a tender only goes out following extensive preparatory work where you examine the market, you examine potential bidders, you assess your own power dynamics vis-a-vis potential sellers etc.
> 
> A failed tender comes down to the purchasing company never the sellers. Don’t believe me please go canvass any procurement specialist.
> 
> Stop perpetuating excuse for BAF failures to nonsense such as there is going to be delay because of upcoming sham election. Why should this matter, BD is not a democracy with an effective opposition so that political “purdah” comes into effect prior to election. Anyhow military purchases if transparent should be above political calculus.
> 
> Disbanding BAF will have great advantage. The resources could be diverted to effective organisation such as BN and BA.
> 
> Currently BAF is a force that will fail at every level to defend our skies. Would you disagree with this basic statement?
> 
> If you accept that BAF is a failed organisation then it comes down to what to do with it. I propose starting over as it is rotten to the core and it can not be reformed.
> 
> At some point you need to cut your losses and face reality. An ineffective Air Force is not in BDs interest, we need to defend our skies and BAF can’t do it as demonstrated during the rohingya debacle. Holding on to this white elephant fundamentally degrades our security.
> 
> We need to look to the future and be honest with ourselves. We need to innovatively maximise our defense capacity within our means and in response to our enemies. We are in a situation I believe where we actually do not have an airforce.
> 
> It’s a terrible reality but without acceptance of this we can not move forward.
> 
> Having accepted this we need to set goals. First denial of our air space via multilayered missile capabilities. Who is best to direct such an initiative, I would say BA.
> 
> Second objective extension of missile capacity beyond our borders to restrict operational freedom of the enemy. Again army or a new missile focused defense arm with clear doctrine is necessary.
> 
> Third objective develop an effective offensive airforce. look at options and develop as best as possible as quickly as possible with a rebranding and a new purpose that dumps BAF and it’s legacy of utter failure since inception.



BAF leadership is certainly poor compared to BA and BN.
Even with the meagre resources at their disposal they should have been at least able to do more.

MRSAM and the 6 frigates will start coming into service in the early 2020s and that should provide enough air protection against the savages at least at last.

While a lot of people have lost all hope in BAF, I think we shall see some concrete deals announced for modern fighter aircraft next year. AL for some unknown reason cares about what the Hinduvtas think just before an election.



mb444 said:


> What are you basing this on?
> 
> Why would india be bothered about Hasina given she is only in power with Indian support overriding BD democracy.
> 
> What do you think will happen india will just switch support to BNP!!!! India has put all its basket in BAL basket.
> 
> BAL is subservient to India, expect no deal even if there was any will in BAF due to lack of competence.



Actually India would prefer BNP to win this time.
All they care about is a weak BD to take advantage of.

Remember it was AL in the late 1990s that ordered 16 + 16 Mig-29s and BNP in the early
2000s that cancelled the order after only 8 were received.


----------



## mb444

UKBengali said:


> BAF leadership is certainly poor compared to BA and BN.
> Even with the meagre resources at their disposal they should have been at least able to do more.
> 
> MRSAM and the 6 frigates will start coming into service in the early 2020s and that should provide enough air protection against the savages at least at last.
> 
> While a lot of people have lost all hope in BAF, I think we shall see some concrete deals announced for modern fighter aircraft next year. AL for some unknown reason cares about what the Hinduvtas think just before an election.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually India would prefer BNP to win this time.
> All they care about is a weak BD to take advantage of.
> 
> Remember it was AL in the late 1990s that ordered 16 + 16 Mig-29s and BNP in the early
> 2000s that cancelled the order after only 8 were received.




For all of BNPs chest thumping nationalism post Zia it is a party that has caused serious damage to BDs security apparatus. For them a weak military was desirable for internal reason. 

Pox on both BAL and BNP. National defense should be above such petty consideration. 

I hope you are correct regarding BAF but I just can not see it to be honest. Expect more lame trainers and an aerobatics team.


----------



## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> For all of BNPs chest thumping nationalism post Zia it is a party that has caused serious damage to BDs security apparatus. For them a weak military was desirable for internal reason.
> 
> Pox on both BAL and BNP. National defense should be above such petty consideration.
> 
> I hope you are correct regarding BAF but I just can not see it to be honest. Expect more lame trainers and an aerobatics team.



BAF will have 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters aircraft by 2021 for sure. Money is there for this procurement. These will be far superior to anything the savages have bar the SU-30 SME they are buying.
With the ongoing Army and Naval buildup, BD military will have comprehensive superiority by the 50th birthday of BD in 2021.
My only concern is that BD society is full of cowards, some of whom are in influential positions, who may not unleash the military at the savages.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> BAF will have 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters aircraft by 2021 for sure. Money is there for this procurement. These will be far superior to anything the savages have bar the SU-30 SME they are buying.
> With the ongoing Army and Naval buildup, BD military will have comprehensive superiority by the 50th birthday of BD in 2021.
> My only concern is that BD society is full of cowards, some of whom are in influential positions, who may not unleash the military at the savages.



Yea I’m gonna have to agree with the last sentence.

This is ultimately the main problem.


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## Destranator

Decades of BAF inaction has left a gaping whole in our aerial defence capabilities which will take decades to recover from even if BAF goes all-in today.

It takes years to develop the right aircraft management system and competence. As an organisation BAF has never been exposed to the challenges of maintaining dozens of highly sophisticated aircraft.

Even if BAF is gifted 3 squadrons of Su-35s tomorrow for free, they will struggle to make them fully operational for years.

In my opinion, the only way to keep BAF on its toes at all times would be through formation of a proper Joint Chief of Staff's Committee consisting of multiple permanent 3-4 star general rank posts. The current Armed Forces Division can be transformed into one.

The purpose of this committee would be, among other things, to prioritise essential procurement for the three services. Currently, due to lack of accountability and coordination, the army is unnecessarily expanding manpower like crazy (3 divisions formed in 3 years) while the air force has zero aircraft with proper BVR or air-to-ground precision strike capabilities.

The army itself lacks sufficient bulletproof jackets (you can see troops ofte geared up without BPJs), modern comms equipment, guided artillery, etc. and yet they are creating new units which would slow down troop-level modernisation even further.

In times of conflict, I believe the enemy would first resort to artillery shelling followed by aerial bombardment. Given our small landmass this would be very effective in quickly diminishing our defence capabilities.

The best way to survive the above would be to induct and deploy sufficient artillery resources for a heavy counterattack and create dozens of additional airstrips all over the country for scattering fighter jets around so that the enemy is unable to destroy all our fighter aircraft.

More to follow...

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Blame them for the mess they created. Hasina is the one who allowed these Rohingyas not military. They can't do shit if our pussy leaders don't give any orders, even if they have massive strength.



Hasina did the right thing allowing Rohingya in. Burmese knew Hasina had no reply so they started the mess in the first place. They would not dare to do that with India or with China. Even Thailand took their revenge for Karen and have massive influence inside Myanmar.


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## Homo Sapiens




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## Flynn Swagmire

The Ronin said:


> We will get our equipment from wherever we can buy and maintain in an affordable price, within our budget. Just because they are our export customer doesn't mean we *have to* buy from them.


Did I said we "have to"? I said we should prefer them!

Yes, we should prefer sensible western countries and their products. Because, they always helped us...

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Hasina did the right thing allowing Rohingya in. Burmese knew Hasina had no reply so they started the mess in the first place. They would not dare to do that with India or with China. Even Thailand took their revenge for Karen and have massive influence inside Myanmar.



Hasina had 8 years to build up BAF in 2017.
She should stop blaming BNP all the time and get things done.
Even if she brought a single squadron of 16 modern fighters, savages may have been deterred.


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Just because they outnumber us in aircraft doesn't mean our fighter can't fight with them.


truth be told, they can't! taking into account the pilots have the same skills and training


UKBengali said:


> These will be far superior to anything the savages have bar the SU-30 SME they are buying.


their sukhois are the ex indian airframes.... barebones... so i don't see how it will be on par


UKBengali said:


> BD society is full of cowards


true that! :/



UKBengali said:


> Hasina had 8 years to build up BAF in 2017.
> She should stop blaming BNP all the time and get things done.


true but then also take into account hasina had to prioritise budget into things like electricity more for her first tenure...
and then when she had enough... it was time to get things like transport trainers etc so she had to compromise....
without substantial budget increase i don't see how we can move forward... decades of stagnation has left the old officers retired and the old fleet into extinction....


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## UKBengali

@Michael Corleone 

I am being generous to the savages with the SU-30s being as capable as the fighters BD will be deploying soon. Even then they have only 6 and BD will have 2-3 squadrons by 2021. Both their Mig-29s and JF-17s will be swotted out of the sky by BAF.
I disagree that AL had other priorities and could not have procured a single squadron of modern fighters by 2017. They found 4 billion US dollars for Padma Bridge and 1 billion dollars should have been made available to BAF to get 1 squadron of 4th gen fighters by last year or even earlier. AL should have foreseen what the savages next door could do to Rohingyas after what happened in 2012 and 2016.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> I am being generous to the savages with the SU-30s being as capable as the fighters BD will be deploying soon. Even then they have only 6 and BD will have 2-3 squadrons by 2021. Both their Mig-29s and JF-17s will be swotted out of the sky by BAF.
> I disagree that AL had other priorities and could not have procured a single squadron of modern fighters by 2017. They found 4 billion US dollars for Padma Bridge and 1 billion dollars should have been made available to BAF to get 1 squadron of 4th gen fighters by last year or even earlier. AL should have foreseen what the savages next door could do to Rohingyas after what happened in 2012 and 2016.


3 billion dollar defense budget is still not enough for fast results. And with every passing days, the forces goals seems to fail for BAF

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> 3 billion dollar defense budget is still not enough for fast results. And with every passing days, the forces goals seems to fail for BAF



Actually it is around 4 billion US dollars as arms imports are financed separately.

Whichever way you look at it, AL cannot give an adequate explanation as to why they have not brought a single 4th generation fighter since 2009.

No logical explanation has been given as to why 150 million US dollars was wasted buying 16 F-7BGIs in 2011 when the money could have modernised the 8 Mig-29s in the fleet. Even if BAF had only these 8 Mig-29s with new radars and missiles they could have presented a real threat to the 32 or so old Mig-29s of the MAF last year during the Rohingya exodus. Too much of BD scarce resources are being wasted it seems.

If the leadership of BAF are not capable of delivering then AL should have replaced them.

BD air-space now cannot be defended from either neighbour with an economy of nearly 300 billion US dollars growing at 8% a year. Something is seriously wrong!!!!

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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> You shouldn't talk about that. You are also preaching BAF's destruction here. You think a AD network handled by BA and BN and offensive missiles are enough to counter the threat?? NO!! Fighters and BAF still matter, always will. No matter how small, weak and inferior they are compared to enemy AF they can still deter the enemy. All three forces complement each other, always will. Asking for disbanding the AF means cutting off your hand. when your opponent possesses full strength (AD, missile, AF).



You misunderstood a few things. I do not seek BAF destruction for the sake off it. I want BAF rebadged and started over because as an organisation it has failed and it is beyond redemption. It’s management is poor because it failed amoungst many things to emphasise the value of the Air Force to the politicians. It is beyond hope.

In an war event BAF in its current state will be decimated in a few hours probably on the ground before it is able to get any of the birds into the skies. That is it’s state, we are not just numarically poor compared to our enemies but also qualitatively poor. This situation needs to be faced before it can be turned around.

Regarding missile force as an alternative to an airforce is not ideal but look at what Iran has been able to achieve so my suggestion is not without precedence. It is merely a short term suggestion and given where we are now it would be an improvement.

BD needs an effective airforce, it currently does not have one. We need to lift morale of a totally demoralised organisation and rebranding will go a long way in doing that. In that journey by co opting BN and BA management We introduce efficient and effective leadership and increase interoperability for the future three services.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Actually it is around 4 billion US dollars as arms imports are financed separately.
> 
> Whichever way you look at it, AL cannot give an adequate explanation as to why they have not brought a single 4th generation fighter since 2009.
> 
> No logical explanation has been given as to why 150 million US dollars was wasted buying 16 F-7BGIs in 2011 when the money could have modernised the 8 Mig-29s in the fleet. Even if BAF had only these 8 Mig-29s with new radars and missiles they could have presented a real threat to the 32 or so old Mig-29s of the MAF last year during the Rohingya exodus. Too much of BD scarce resources are being wasted it seems.
> 
> If the leadership of BAF are not capable of delivering then AL should have replaced them.
> 
> BD air-space now cannot be defended from either neighbour with an economy of nearly 300 billion US dollars growing at 8% a year. Something is seriously wrong!!!!




I actually happen to think the -BGI purchase wasnt a bad idea.

For 150 million? Lotta bang for the buck. If for nothing else than keeping your airmen up in the air.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I actually happen to think the -BGI purchase wasnt a bad idea.
> 
> For 150 million? Lotta bang for the buck. If for nothing else than keeping your airmen up in the air.



Official reason given was "stop-gap" back in 2011 when 16 were ordered for 150 million US dollars.

I can tell you that was enough money to buy 8 more Mig-29s in those days and then some of the money spent buying trainers could have been used to upgrade the 8 Mig-29s that were ordered back in 1999. 16 modernised Mig-29s would have been sufficient to take on the savages airforce last year.

It is a tale of complete and utter sheer strategic ineptitude on the part of BAF and AL government that BD was not ready to face the savages in 2017, when they pushed 700,000 more(in addition to 300,000 already in BD) Rohingya into BD, labelling them as BD'shis.

You know something, I kind of wish that the savages sent their Mig-29s to go and bomb Dhaka as that seems like the only thing that would drill some sense into the idiots and cowards that pervade BD society.

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## Destranator

Stop-gap measure alright but the cost outweighs the benefits in the long run.
The F-7BGIs will be occupying a squadron for 20+ years which could have been spared for modern fighters.

Regardless of what certain FB warriors propagate to defend BAF, the fact of the matter is BAF's fighter squadron allocation is unlikely to exceed 5-6 squadrons before 2030.

Had BAF not inducted the 32 x BG/BGIs we could have phased out all the trash by 2020 and fully embraced next generation fighter tech.


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## ghost250

Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, BBP, OSP, ndu, psc has assumed the Command of Bangladesh Air Force B.A.F on 12 June 2018. The Air Marshal is well known for his passion for flying and remained an active flyer throughout his carrier. Upon assumption of Command, he reiterated his eagerness to fly and leads from the front for invigorating BAF personnel. On 20 June 2018, he flew Chengdu FT-7 BG fighter aircraft and flew Chengdu F-7 BG (solo) on 21 June 2018.





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## muhammadali233

UKBengali said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> I am being generous to the savages with the SU-30s being as capable as the fighters BD will be deploying soon. Even then they have only 6 and BD will have 2-3 squadrons by 2021. Both their Mig-29s and JF-17s will be swotted out of the sky by BAF.


you are a funny guy


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## Bilal9

What we


mb444 said:


> You misunderstood a few things. I do not seek BAF destruction for the sake off it. I want BAF rebadged and started over because as an organisation it has failed and it is beyond redemption. It’s management is poor because it failed amoungst many things to emphasise the value of the Air Force to the politicians. It is beyond hope.
> 
> In an war event BAF in its current state will be decimated in a few hours probably on the ground before it is able to get any of the birds into the skies. That is it’s state, we are not just numarically poor compared to our enemies but also qualitatively poor. This situation needs to be faced before it can be turned around.
> 
> Regarding missile force as an alternative to an airforce is not ideal but look at what Iran has been able to achieve so my suggestion is not without precedence. It is merely a short term suggestion and given where we are now it would be an improvement.
> 
> BD needs an effective airforce, it currently does not have one. We need to lift morale of a totally demoralised organisation and rebranding will go a long way in doing that. In that journey by co opting BN and BA management We introduce efficient and effective leadership and increase interoperability for the future three services.



I see people doing everything except call out the real issue.

At the risk of stating the nearly obvious - what we may be discounting and/or under-estimating is the amount of 'foreign' interference in building an effective deterrent in the form of air superiority.

Interference from India against BAF purchases come in all forms, but most markedly in building offensive air cover. You can cover Bangladesh in defensive missile cover - short or medium range, fine. But try Long Range Missile cover beyond GMLRS (say around 300 KM limit), and see how far you can get with that.

Same with fighters. Light fighter and trainer jets like F-7BGI and Yak-130 are one thing, but try a 'proper' medium payload fighter like the Su-30SM and see how far you get. The answer is 'nowhere', as seen in the last decade.

The multirole Su-30SM in Bangladesh scenario could be deployed in counter-air strikes, counter-land and counter-sea missions. It could conduct electronic counter-countermeasures and early warning tasks to assist tank forces. The aircraft can also act as a command-and-control platform within a fleet of combat aircraft performing joint missions, although this may be too exotic for BAF at this point.

Su-30SM type aircraft can carry a hefty payload and has excellent range to carry the fight deep inside savage territory to attack strategic or command/control assets that cannot be reachable by GMLRS. Moreover, Su-30SM offers the flexibility to carry out air-to-air, air-to-sea level and air-to-ground mission because it doesn’t need a separate fighter escort. The aircraft has a second crew-member helpful for complex missions.

Xiaolong FC-1 Block 3 may be ready soon or more expensive J-10B too (and these are great to field in numbers in border airfields as deterrents) - but these aren't Su-30SM level birds which we sorely need.

But the basic fact is that as long as the air-force does not get approval to buy Su-30SM type birds, we only have cheap talk being bandied about. It is not BAF brass' fault to convince the country's leadership when the leadership itself is beholden to India's whims.

We may be calling the BAF brass names for nothing. The problem is who is sitting on the PM's seat.

If Hasina is India's biggest stooge (and weapon) then she will shoot down anything India does not approve of.

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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> What we
> 
> 
> I see people doing everything except call out the real issue.
> 
> At the risk of stating the nearly obvious - what we may be discounting and/or under-estimating is the amount of 'foreign' interference in building an effective deterrent in the form of air superiority.
> 
> Interference from India against BAF purchases come in all forms, but most markedly in building offensive air cover. You can cover Bangladesh in defensive missile cover - short or medium range, fine. But try Long Range Missile cover beyond GMLRS (say around 300 KM limit), and see how far you can get with that.
> 
> Same with fighters. Light fighter and trainer jets like F-7BGI and Yak-130 are one thing, but try a 'proper' medium payload fighter like the Su-30SM and see how far you get. The answer is 'nowhere', as seen in the last decade.
> 
> The multirole Su-30SM in Bangladesh scenario could be deployed in counter-air strikes, counter-land and counter-sea missions. It could conduct electronic counter-countermeasures and early warning tasks to assist tank forces. The aircraft can also act as a command-and-control platform within a fleet of combat aircraft performing joint missions, although this may be too exotic for BAF at this point.
> 
> Su-30SM type aircraft can carry a hefty payload and has excellent range to carry the fight deep inside savage territory to attack strategic or command/control assets that cannot be reachable by GMLRS. Moreover, Su-30SM offers the flexibility to carry out air-to-air, air-to-sea level and air-to-ground mission because it doesn’t need a separate fighter escort. The aircraft has a second crew-member helpful for complex missions.
> 
> Xiaolong FC-1 Block 3 may be ready soon or more expensive J-10B too (and these are great to field in numbers in border airfields as deterrents) - but these aren't Su-30SM level birds which we sorely need.
> 
> But the basic fact is that as long as the air-force does not get approval to buy Su-30SM type birds, we only have cheap talk being bandied about. It is not BAF brass' fault to convince the country's leadership when the leadership itself is beholden to India's whims.
> 
> We may be calling the BAF brass names for nothing. The problem is who is sitting on the PM's seat.
> 
> If Hasina is India's biggest stooge (and weapon) then she will shoot down anything India does not approve of.




Every airforce in the world will face opposition from neighbouring countries when it seeks to enhance capabilities. This is the same for BA and BN.

What you are saying is not an unique scenario to BAF. It’s failures are it’s own, let us not try to find external reasons why BAF failed, it failed because it is lead by morons who since inception has not even managed to develop an operational doctrine.

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## TopCat

mb444 said:


> Every airforce in the world will face opposition from neighbouring countries when it seeks to enhance capabilities. This is the same for BA and BN.
> 
> What you are saying is not an unique scenario to BAF. It’s failures are it’s own, let us not try to find external reasons why BAF failed, it failed because it is lead by morons who since inception has not even managed to develop an operational doctrine.


We should go for typhoon and j-10. Avoid Russian craft once and for all.


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## LKJ86

TopCat said:


> Avoid Russian craft once and for all.


Why???


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## Bilal9

LKJ86 said:


> Why???



At this time - Russian aircraft are not 'perceived' to be any less expensive than European made aircraft (especially in the way Russians are wheeling and dealing - using leverage in negative ways). European equipment comes with certain inherent benefits such as much better parts support, lower MTBF and interim overhaul periods, and a much better chance of ToT and component manufacture which we should demand from expensive defense purchases.

Bangladesh focus for purchases has also changed. We are not looking for the cheapest of the cheap (lowest bidder) anymore for defense, focus on defense purchases is more quality driven and longer focused now - also because purchasing committee members are more experienced and informed on defense priorities compared to past decades. They understand that cheap defense products are actually more expensive in the long run.

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> What we
> 
> 
> I see people doing everything except call out the real issue.
> 
> At the risk of stating the nearly obvious - what we may be discounting and/or under-estimating is the amount of 'foreign' interference in building an effective deterrent in the form of air superiority.
> 
> Interference from India against BAF purchases come in all forms, but most markedly in building offensive air cover. You can cover Bangladesh in defensive missile cover - short or medium range, fine. But try Long Range Missile cover beyond GMLRS (say around 300 KM limit), and see how far you can get with that.
> 
> Same with fighters. Light fighter and trainer jets like F-7BGI and Yak-130 are one thing, but try a 'proper' medium payload fighter like the Su-30SM and see how far you get. The answer is 'nowhere', as seen in the last decade.
> 
> The multirole Su-30SM in Bangladesh scenario could be deployed in counter-air strikes, counter-land and counter-sea missions. It could conduct electronic counter-countermeasures and early warning tasks to assist tank forces. The aircraft can also act as a command-and-control platform within a fleet of combat aircraft performing joint missions, although this may be too exotic for BAF at this point.
> 
> Su-30SM type aircraft can carry a hefty payload and has excellent range to carry the fight deep inside savage territory to attack strategic or command/control assets that cannot be reachable by GMLRS. Moreover, Su-30SM offers the flexibility to carry out air-to-air, air-to-sea level and air-to-ground mission because it doesn’t need a separate fighter escort. The aircraft has a second crew-member helpful for complex missions.
> 
> Xiaolong FC-1 Block 3 may be ready soon or more expensive J-10B too (and these are great to field in numbers in border airfields as deterrents) - but these aren't Su-30SM level birds which we sorely need.
> 
> But the basic fact is that as long as the air-force does not get approval to buy Su-30SM type birds, we only have cheap talk being bandied about. It is not BAF brass' fault to convince the country's leadership when the leadership itself is beholden to India's whims.
> 
> We may be calling the BAF brass names for nothing. The problem is who is sitting on the PM's seat.
> 
> If Hasina is India's biggest stooge (and weapon) then she will shoot down anything India does not approve of.




I think there is a danger of seeing the Hinduvtas as having a hand in everything in BD.

If India was so influential, BD would never have brought submarines as believe me those modernised Mings are a serious danger to Indian Navy near BD shores. Also BN has announced the program for 6 cutting-edge frigates and those will pose a serious threat to both IN and IAF with their long-range missile systems.

The fault is not entirely BAF's as AL should have changed the leadership if the BAF was not being led properly. If both BA and BN are implementing structured plans to modernise, then so can BAF.

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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> BN has announced the program for 6 cutting-edge frigates


What frigates?


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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> What frigates?



That is off-topic but if you search you will see a couple of threads on pdf about this.


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## The Ronin

A BAF K-8W fires its rockets at Rasulpur firing range.







The immediate past BAF COAS visited India and inspected LCH and some other Indian made combat helicopters to get an idea about the manufacturing capabilities of HAL.


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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> A BAF K-8W fires its rockets at Rasulpur firing range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The immediate past BAF COAS visited India and inspected LCH and some other Indian made combat helicopters to get an idea about the manufacturing capabilities of HAL.


 

The fat f**k could not move forward with this nonsense because he could not even get into the helicopter and nor did the Indian crap have the horse power to lift his a*s off the ground.

Just look at the fat t**d, he is even too fat for his hat!!!!! How does this retard become the head of BAF. Unsurprisingly he was as very successful in the job!!!!!!!

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## monitor



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## The Ronin

But SAAB do not have any 360 radar dome. If we really want something with SAAB radar then why not use Embraer R-99 platform like India did on Embraer ERJ 145.


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## mb444

monitor said:


> View attachment 488989



good if true, but what is the point of getting awacs when we do not have fighters to direct?

this is the same as getting so many trainers, we are thinking about training up pilots, we are thinking about command and control of our front line jets.... all good.... but there are no frontline jets....

the entire planning process in BAF is wrong, build capability incrementally and strategically to complement each development.

Order of fighters to delivery takes around 2 years, trainers take max 9 months, awacs around 2 years as well. Any idiot can figure out that fighters needs to be ordered first, then the advanced trainers as we already have basic and intermediate trainers and then awacs.

there is no point in getting awacs training so early. Pilots receiving the awacs training will already be fully trained pilots, they will simply be familiarising themselves with this particular bird. They will also learn command strategies. There is no point to this without having clarity about the future fleet composition and capabilities.

I will however choose to believe my heart that this is at least a sign that some kind of positive plan is being put in to action by BAF, but my head says these idiots are incapable of planning a party in a brewery.



The Ronin said:


> But SAAB do not have any 360 radar dome. If we really want something with SAAB radar then why not use Embraer R-99 platform like India did on Embraer ERJ 145.




quite possibly because BAF is unaware of what an awacs is and what its capabilities should be. also very possible that there is a complete lack of technical competence in their purchasing division as has already been proved.

The item is most likely fake news or just another means of defrauding the exchequer. 

Awacs in the absence of fighters, aerobatics team a greater priority then fighters, F7s a stop gap in the 21st century, transport planes for UN mission greater priority than fighters even when we face the monkeys carrying out genocide on our borders, prioritising a helios fleet with little to no offensive capacity, touting YAKs as some kind of light fighters given the opposition they will face is the history of BAF. its the clown force of the region.

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## Michael Corleone

the reports on wing long 2 UAv from bdmilitary turns out to be legit... gr8 what a surprise yay *sigh
all the doubting posters here

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## The Ronin

Wing Loong II it is. 








Michael Corleone said:


> the reports on wing long 2 UAv from bdmilitary turns out to be legit... gr8 what a surprise yay *sigh
> all the doubting posters here



who doubted it?? there was tender issued for uav.

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## AMG_12

Michael Corleone said:


> the reports on wing long 2 UAv from bdmilitary turns out to be legit... gr8 what a surprise yay *sigh
> all the doubting posters here


Can you share any images/official proof of it's procurement? 
Thanks .


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## monitor

Game.Invade said:


> Can you share any images/official proof of it's procurement?
> Thanks .



Our air chief sitting beside a model of UAV proof its official or serious consideration.

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## Aung Zaya

monitor said:


> Our air chief sitting beside a model of UAV proof its official or serious consideration.



there is nothing to be legit too. China has the tradition of giving a scale models as the promotion of its products. 
Myanmar also received models of Z-10s , Y-9 AWACS and even also got unknown type of submarine. any creditable source besides that ?


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## ghost250

Aung Zaya said:


> there is nothing to be legit too. China has the tradition of giving a scale models as the promotion of its products.
> Myanmar also received models of Z-10s , Y-9 AWACS and even also got unknown type of submarine. any creditable source besides that ?



because wing loong 2 nd ch-5 these two r only viable options here..nd there was a tender for uav..so,it is not that difficult to figure out,right??nd yes,there is no official confirmation yet..


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## The Ronin

Could be TAI Anka-S. Anyway Wing Loong or Anka whatever it is will come for sure cause tender was issued.

Mig-29B

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## bd_4_ever

There is no doubt about the UAV. The tender was published long back and it was even posted here in this section. It will highly likely be Wing Long. If not that, then Anka. These are the only two options.

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## The Ronin



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## Bilal9




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## The Ronin

BAF put out a new tender for the overhaul/upgradation for 4xMig-29 aircraft. 
The bidders has been asked to provide bids on multiple options on dealing with the aircraft ranging from giving them a basic overhaul to upgrading the jets to mig-29SM. Overhaul is due for 2019. 
The upgrade packages suggest the sinlge seater aircraft to be upgraded to carry r-77 missiles, r-27t1 missiles, kh-31 antiship missiles, and to have provisions to use r-27T1 missiles for the Mig-29UB. R-27T1 missiles will give the mig-29UB somewhat of a BVR capability

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2371.pdf
http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/2371.pdf

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> BAF put out a new tender for the overhaul/upgradation for 4xMig-29 aircraft.
> The bidders has been asked to provide bids on multiple options on dealing with the aircraft ranging from giving them a basic overhaul to upgrading the jets to mig-29SM. Overhaul is due for 2019.
> The upgrade packages suggest the sinlge seater aircraft to be upgraded to carry r-77 missiles, r-27t1 missiles, kh-31 antiship missiles, and to have provisions to use r-27T1 missiles for the Mig-29UB. R-27T1 missiles will give the mig-29UB somewhat of a BVR capability
> 
> http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2371.pdf
> http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/2371.pdf



What's going on here guys?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> What's going on here guys?



Good question as there was a tender last year to overhaul all 8 Mig-29s.

Something just does not seem right with BAF.

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## Avicenna

Yea man seriously. WTF?

None of this makes sense.


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## mb444

They have reduced the tender by 50% presumably to save money to buy a squadron of Micky mouse birds for aerobatics. BAF knows priorities more than us mere mortals.

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## The Ronin

Okay the thing is they didn't send those because of Rohingya issue in 2017. why don't you guys realise they cannot afford to send all 8 MiGs to overseas at the same time? Half of them will remain for operational requirements. This is always the case during any overhauling. No country stands down their entire fighter fleet for upgrading in one go.

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> Okay the thing is they didn't send those because of Rohingya issue in 2017. why don't you guys realise they cannot afford to send all 8 MiGs to overseas at the same time? Half of them will remain for operational requirements. This is always the case during any overhauling. No country stands down their entire fighter fleet for upgrading in one go.



Makes sense.


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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Okay the thing is they didn't send those because of Rohingya issue in 2017. why don't you guys realise they cannot afford to send all 8 MiGs to overseas at the same time? Half of them will remain for operational requirements. This is always the case during any overhauling. No country stands down their entire fighter fleet for upgrading in one go.


Can you give me a source it says our Migs were in firing position at the event of Rohingya? Dont make fiction


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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> That's called precaution. You don't wanna accept it it's your problem. Nobody is stupid enough to overhaul their best fighter fleet in overseas while your aggressive neighbor killing people, violating air space, creating bunker and taking position near border. Will they do anything by announcing it??


BDAF if stupid enough to do anything including making a very fat guy as its chief.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Good question as there was a tender last year to overhaul all 8 Mig-29s.
> 
> Something just does not seem right with BAF.


how many times do you want to overhaul bondhu!? 
four of them had their first overhaul in ukraine.... the other four are left....
three overhauls per aircraft with a 10 year gap approx on each



Avicenna said:


> Yea man seriously. WTF?
> 
> None of this makes sense.


read reply to Ukbengali bro!



TopCat said:


> BDAF if stupid enough to do anything including making a very fat guy as its chief.


fat dude did the background work whose results the new chief will implement....
fat dude had to buy f7bgi... establish sam units... buy simulators... buy transport aircrafts... buy helicopters... buy trainer aircrafts ( and lots of it) to keep the thing alive..... i don't blame the fat dude anymore.

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## 帅的一匹

russian after servie sucks and charge very high price, only 4 out of 18 Su30MKI of Royal malaysian airforce can fly. they haf been bled white by russians.
actually Royal malaysia airforce wanna call helps from China to maintian those SU30mkm, but Sukhoi strongly protest agianst it.

and 10 out of 10 Malaysian airforce Mig29N are grounded. thats a disaster.

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## bluesky

wanglaokan said:


> russian after servie sucks and charge very high price, only 4 out of 18 Su30MKI of Royal malaysian airforce can fly. they haf been bled white by russians.
> actually Royal malaysia airforce wanna call helps from China to maintian those SU30mkm, but Sukhoi strongly protest agianst it.
> 
> and 10 out of 10 Malaysian airforce Mig29N are grounded. thats a disaster.


I think BAF must consider all the negative aspects of buying Russian planes. Even BAF has to pay a very large amount of dollar for the maintenance of our Mig-29.


As far as I remember Russia also bled India when the latter bought its first aircraft carrier. Russia changes mind depending upon the weakness of its client. It is only China that can see eyeball to eyeball with Russia. But, previously it was different even with China.


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## TopCat

Typhoon is the way to go.


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## The Ronin

wanglaokan said:


> only 4 out of 18 Su30MKI of Royal malaysian airforce can fly.



That's not Russia's fault. RMAF can't maintain it.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Typhoon is the way to go.



Far too expensive for a country like BD.

You are looking at nearly 4 billion US dollars for a single squadron of 16 planes. Add in the relatively high operation cost for a twin engine plane and BAF will not be able to buy another fighter for 5 years at least.

Gripen E is a much better fit for BAF as it's unit cost is 1/3rd cheaper than Typhoon and costs much less to operate.

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## Destranator

Guys no Western jets will join BAF in the near future. The numbers just don't add up.

The goverment won't dish out billions of dollars for fighter jets when funding any major development project is still a struggle for us. Let us not dwell in Bdmilitary's brain farts.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Guys no Western jets will join BAF in the near future. The numbers just don't add up.
> 
> The goverment won't dish out billions of dollars for fighter jets when funding any major development project is still a struggle for us. Let us not dwell in Bdmilitary's brain farts.




Dude, Gripen E is no more expensive than either Russian or Chinese planes.

Let us see what BAF goes for next year.

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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> Guys no Western jets will join BAF in the near future. The numbers just don't add up.
> 
> The goverment won't dish out billions of dollars for fighter jets when funding any major development project is still a struggle for us. Let us not dwell in Bdmilitary's brain farts.



Second hand Gripen C?


----------



## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Far too expensive for a country like BD.
> 
> You are looking at nearly 4 billion US dollars for a single squadron of 16 planes. Add in the relatively high operation cost for a twin engine plane and BAF will not be able to buy another fighter for 5 years at least.
> 
> Gripen E is a much better fit for BAF as it's unit cost is 1/3rd cheaper than Typhoon and costs much less to operate.


J-10 is coming for sure. BD can still operate 8 Typhoon along with j-10. Biman just bought 3 dash this month for more money than Typhoon.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> J-10 is coming for sure. BD can still operate 8 Typhoon along with j-10. Biman just bought 3 dash this month for more money than Typhoon.



Binman will earn money from the planes it buys.

Not sure what the point of just 8 Typhoon would be.

BAF should aim for at least 2-3 squadrons of each fighter type.


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Binman will earn money from the planes it buys.
> 
> Not sure what the point of just 8 Typhoon would be.
> 
> BAF should aim for at least 2-3 squadrons of each fighter type.


I dont think bd is looking for anything more than a squadron in heavy fighter class. Biman is a loosing concern.


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## Michael Corleone

wanglaokan said:


> russian after servie sucks and charge very high price, only 4 out of 18 Su30MKI of Royal malaysian airforce can fly. they haf been bled white by russians.
> actually Royal malaysia airforce wanna call helps from China to maintian those SU30mkm, but Sukhoi strongly protest agianst it.
> 
> and 10 out of 10 Malaysian airforce Mig29N are grounded. thats a disaster.


They flew them excessively... drained the life out of those birdies and do not have proper deal or people in place for maintenance. Maybe these issues also add up to Bangladesh’s procurement delays



UKBengali said:


> Far too expensive for a country like BD.
> 
> You are looking at nearly 4 billion US dollars for a single squadron of 16 planes. Add in the relatively high operation cost for a twin engine plane and BAF will not be able to buy another fighter for 5 years at least.
> 
> Gripen E is a much better fit for BAF as it's unit cost is 1/3rd cheaper than Typhoon and costs much less to operate.


Same. I don’t believe the reports of BAF interested or plans to buy those tbh

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Same. I don’t believe the reports of BAF interested or plans to buy those tbh



The latest theory being propagated is "Wait until after the elections and watch BAF re-map the global geo-political landscape with their procurements."

We will see.

Sounds kind of like "Eid-er por andolon" @Mage.


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## ghost250

According to some sources,BAF has ordered 8 more yak-130..they will join our fleet very soon..

#credit-defres


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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> The latest theory being propagated is "Wait until after the elections and watch BAF re-map the global geo-political landscape with their procurements."
> 
> We will see.
> 
> Sounds kind of like "Eid-er por andolon" @Mage.


f that... let's wait to see until this current andolon die down


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## Destranator

shourov323 said:


> According to some sources,BAF has ordered 8 more yak-130..they will join our fleet very soon..
> 
> #credit-defres



They should buy another 50 and train Indian and Burmese pilots as well in exchange of $$.

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## Nike

wanglaokan said:


> russian after servie sucks and charge very high price, only 4 out of 18 Su30MKI of Royal malaysian airforce can fly. they haf been bled white by russians.
> actually Royal malaysia airforce wanna call helps from China to maintian those SU30mkm, but Sukhoi strongly protest agianst it.
> 
> and 10 out of 10 Malaysian airforce Mig29N are grounded. thats a disaster.



Indonesia outsourcing the overhaul and maintenance of her flanker fleet to Belarus. So far so good no problem happened. 

Dont forget, MKM is kinda special because using lot of western Nav. Systems and components like Sagem Safran Nav., iff transponder and other stuff.


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## Imran Khan

so still you guys buying here j-10 grippen typhon su-30 in thread @Nilgiri i ws thinking they forget this game  but they did not

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> so still you guys buying here j-10 grippen typhon su-30 in thread @Nilgiri i ws thinking they forget this game  but they did not



We can buy whatever the hell we want or not buy anything at all.

How does it affect your life in any way?

You can go on a honeymoon with @Nilgiri and have a good time. Both speak Hindi as first language anyway.

Let the real Imran Khan fix the mess you guys have created.



Marine Rouge said:


> Indonesia outsourcing the overhaul and maintenance of her flanker fleet to Belarus. So far so good no problem happened.
> 
> Dont forget, MKM is kinda special because using lot of western Nav. Systems and components like Sagem Safran Nav., iff transponder and other stuff.



If BAF some day ends up with Flankers I would like to see them cooperate with Indonesia and China in regards to maintennance.

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## Imran Khan

Al-Ansar said:


> We can buy whatever the hell we want or not buy anything at all.
> 
> How does it affect your life in any way?
> 
> You can go on a honeymoon with @Nilgiri and have a good time. Both speak Hindi as first language anyway.
> 
> Let the real Imran Khan fix the mess you guys have created.
> 
> 
> 
> If BAF some day ends up with Flankers I would like to see them cooperate with Indonesia and China in regards to maintennance.


lollzzz what you guys buy in last 30 years ?

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> lollzzz what you guys buy in last 30 years ?



I think your drunk.


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> I think your drunk.


no i am not its morning here i always drink after 5-6pm
now please inform us what you guys buy in last 30 years ?

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> no i am not its morning here i always drink after 5-6pm
> now please inform us what you guys buy in last 30 years ?


We bought whatever could be bought responsibly so that we don't end up begging to IMF for repaying Chinese loans.

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> no i am not its morning here i always drink after 5-6pm
> now please inform us what you guys buy in last 30 years ?



Good morning then.

30 years ago takes us back to 1988?

BAF in 1988 were already flying J-6.

I think some time in the late 80's or early 90's bought some A-5.

Also there was a shipment of J-6 donated by Pakistan in 1991. (Destroyed in the cyclone)

Also in the 90's bought some F-7MB. Then bought 8 MiG-29 in 2000.

Then some more F-7BG in 2006 and then finally some F-7BGI in 2013.

In the last 30 years....A-5, F-7 in various models, and the MiG-29.

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## ghost250

Avicenna said:


> Good morning then.
> 
> 30 years ago takes us back to 1988?
> 
> BAF in 1988 were already flying J-6.
> 
> I think some time in the late 80's or early 90's bought some A-5.
> 
> Also there was a shipment of J-6 donated by Pakistan in 1991.
> 
> Also in the 90's bought some F-7. Then bought 8 MiG-29 in 2000.
> 
> Then some more F-7BG in 2006 and then finally some F-7BGI in 2013.
> 
> In the last 30 years....A-5, F-7 in various models, and the MiG-29.



16 yak-130,8 more on order..
9 k-8w...16 more on order..
4 c-130B,2 more c-130j nd one c-130 H on order..
3 Let L-410 Turbolet..
42 different types helicopters..
FM-90 SHOARD 
LY-80D MRSAM.......



Al-Ansar said:


> We bought whatever could be bought responsibly so that we don't end up begging to IMF for repaying Chinese loans.

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## El Sidd

Will the BAF personnel take part in the protest?

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## Imran Khan

Al-Ansar said:


> We bought whatever could be bought responsibly so that we don't end up begging to IMF for repaying Chinese loans.


but you people livineg worse then beggers.imf did give you beggers 25bn$ what you guys deserve



shourov323 said:


> 16 yak-130,8 more on order..
> 9 k-8w...16 more on order..
> 4 c-130B,2 more c-130j nd one c-130 H on order..
> 3 Let L-410 Turbolet..
> 42 different types helicopters..
> FM-90 SHOARD
> LY-80D MRSAM.......


you will fight war with traners

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> but you people livineg worse then beggers
> 
> 
> you will fight war with traners



You sure you not drinking brah?


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> You sure you not drinking brah?


do you want some ?

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> do you want some ?



No.


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Good morning then.
> 
> 30 years ago takes us back to 1988?
> 
> BAF in 1988 were already flying J-6.
> 
> I think some time in the late 80's or early 90's bought some A-5.
> 
> Also there was a shipment of J-6 donated by Pakistan in 1991. (Destroyed in the cyclone)
> 
> Also in the 90's bought some F-7MB. Then bought 8 MiG-29 in 2000.
> 
> Then some more F-7BG in 2006 and then finally some F-7BGI in 2013.
> 
> In the last 30 years....A-5, F-7 in various models, and the MiG-29.


so here is good answer finally after bd guys bark so much .

now look at the time bd buy all this scraf since 1988 in last 30 years world have options of some best fighters like

mirage2000
tornados
f14
f5 freedom fighter
f16
f18
f15
su24
su27
jaguars
miraje f1
etc so many fighter rather they buy f7 and 120mn$ mig29 so what make them think now they are day nights posting almost every top fighters on earth . i am sure end will be some cheap option

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## AMG_12

shourov323 said:


> 16 yak-130,8 more on order..
> 9 k-8w...16 more on order..
> 4 c-130B,2 more c-130j nd one c-130 H on order..
> 3 Let L-410 Turbolet..
> 42 different types helicopters..
> FM-90 SHOARD
> LY-80D MRSAM.......


Come and see the living standards of Pakistanis in contrast to bangbandhus. Despite IMF and weak economy, our living standards are a thousand times better than bd and will remain so for the next hundred years. Just loook at your infrastructure lol, it's worse than most African third world countries with poorer economic conditions.



Imran Khan said:


> so here is good answer finally after bd guys bark so much .
> 
> now look at the time bd buy all this scraf since 1988 in last 30 years world have options of some best fighters like
> 
> mirage2000
> tornados
> f14
> f5 freedom fighter
> f16
> f18
> f15
> su24
> su27
> jaguars
> miraje f1
> etc so many fighter rather they buy f7 and 120mn$ mig29 so what make them think now they are day nights posting almost every top fighters on earth . i am sure end will be some cheap option


BAF is waiting for new upgrade of J7 while the fanboys daydream of 4th generation fighters. When the world reach 6th generation, theyll buy 4th generation, always 2 generations behind the rest..

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> but you people livineg worse then beggers.imf did give you beggers 25bn$ what you guys deserve



Yes, sure we are the ones "living the lives of beggars":
*Pakistani rupee tumbles as central bank faces a crisis*

*Pakistan curbs imports amid a foreign exchange crisis

Pakistan set to seek up to $12bn IMF bailout
*
*China sanctions $2b loan for Pakistan to stem decline in forex reserves
*


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## ghost250

Game.Invade said:


> Come and see the living standards of Pakistanis in contrast to bangbandhus. Despite IMF and weak economy, our living standards are a thousand times better than bd and will remain so for the next hundred years. Just loook at your infrastructure lol, it's worse than most African third world countries with poorer economic conditions.
> 
> 
> BAF is waiting for new upgrade of J7 while the fanboys daydream of 4th generation fighters. When the world reach 6th generation, theyll buy 4th generation, always 2 generations behind the rest..



if u want to talk about the ecomony,infrastructure then its not the right thread..nd really i dont want to compare our country with urs.....nd yes,we r so poor that we didnt beg to USA for some f-16....nd for ur kind info we r operating 4th generation fighters since 1998....


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## Imran Khan

Al-Ansar said:


> Yes, sure we are the ones "living the lives of beggars":
> *Pakistani rupee tumbles as central bank faces a crisis*
> 
> *Pakistan curbs imports amid a foreign exchange crisis*
> 
> *Pakistan set to seek up to $12bn IMF bailout*
> 
> *China sanctions $2b loan for Pakistan to stem decline in forex reserves*


lolllz greece got 3 bailout so bd is better then greece ? .its simple we spend more then we earn .every house need power gas and water . per capita usage of cars is higher .we can not like lime cattle .

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## Avicenna

For the people derailing this thread.....take it elsewhere.

I posted an article earlier from The Diplomat in another thread reporting that BAF bought 23 K-8W.

The article stated that the trainers were needed because BAF planned on retiring some older trainers.

Aren’t the T-37 retired already? Are there still JJ-6 in service? What trainers were they referring to?

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Aren’t the T-37 retired already? Are there still JJ-6 in service? What trainers were they referring to?



The 7 remaining L-39s. Don't read Diplomat, they often give wrong info in BD related article.

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## Imran Khan

shourov323 said:


> if u want to talk about the ecomony,infrastructure then its not the right thread..nd really i dont want to compare our country with urs.....nd yes,we r so poor that we didnt beg to USA for some f-16....nd for ur kind info we r operating 4th generation fighters since 1998....


but same time you beg Pakistan for retired f-6s and USA for retired C-130 . what a excellence air force you guys have 1and half squadron air force after 50 years of independence .

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## polanski

Imran Khan said:


> but same time you beg Pakistan for retired f-6s and USA for retired C-130 . what a excellence air force you guys have 1and half squadron air force after 50 years of independence .


These hypocrites also beg money from America and EU to feed Rohingya refugees. 
They need to go to Putin and Xi to beg money for Rohingya. I am sure Putin will kick their a$$ if they beg money for Rohingya. 
bdmilitary.com and defense update Bangladesh buy fighter jet and helicopter every week. They bought su-30mk2 in 2012 and HQ-16 in 2012. Only problem is these military equipment never reached Bangladesh. These are absolutely morons.

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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> lolllz greece got 3 bailout so bd is better then greece ? .its simple we spend more then we earn .every house need power gas and water . per capita usage of cars is higher .we can not like lime cattle .


Which doesn’t put you in a position to talk about financial sanity and purchasing power. Piss off mate!



Avicenna said:


> For the people derailing this thread.....take it elsewhere.
> 
> I posted an article earlier from The Diplomat in another thread reporting that BAF bought 23 K-8W.
> 
> The article stated that the trainers were needed because BAF planned on retiring some older trainers.
> 
> Aren’t the T-37 retired already? Are there still JJ-6 in service? What trainers were they referring to?


Four squadron of trainers planned. Two k-8 and two yak-130... more yak order in line... yet to be signed off

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## ghost250

Imran Khan said:


> but same time you beg Pakistan for retired f-6s and USA for retired C-130 . what a excellence air force you guys have 1and half squadron air force after 50 years of independence .


because we were poor and that was way back in 90s..but u are super rich people..what kind of rich people beg to others ??


polanski said:


> These hypocrites also beg money from America and EU to feed Rohingya refugees.
> They need to go to Putin and Xi to beg money for Rohingya. I am sure Putin will kick their a$$ if they beg money for Rohingya.
> bdmilitary.com and defense update Bangladesh buy fighter jet and helicopter every week. They bought su-30mk2 in 2012 and HQ-16 in 2012. Only problem is these military equipment never reached Bangladesh. These are absolutely morons.


tor lenja deikha felaisi re beruni..ki re khankir pola beruni,nijer desh er naam e bodnam r mitthachar korte shorom kore na tor??

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## Imran Khan

polanski said:


> These hypocrites also beg money from America and EU to feed Rohingya refugees.
> They need to go to Putin and Xi to beg money for Rohingya. I am sure Putin will kick their a$$ if they beg money for Rohingya.
> bdmilitary.com and defense update Bangladesh buy fighter jet and helicopter every week. They bought su-30mk2 in 2012 and HQ-16 in 2012. Only problem is these military equipment never reached Bangladesh. These are absolutely morons.


the problem is if someone try to correct them they start bashing. we are on defense forum and sure we discuss defense anf weapons here but Bangladesh is not a military power or a military worth talks every day . so they bash day night others troll and day dream . Bangladesh need to work many more years before think about some fighters . Bangladesh need development more then weapons and bd gov know it .a country with 170 million people having an airline owned 8 planes .gov have to feed millions under deep poverty public .weapons did not help BD . but they need something to talk on defense forums so they start doing it since ages 1998 was the year i got internet in my home in Pakistan since then i am reading these rants .rather then simply accepting these fact they bash india paksitan day night here .



Michael Corleone said:


> Which doesn’t put you in a position to talk about financial sanity and purchasing power. Piss off mate!
> 
> 
> Four squadron of trainers planned. Two k-8 and two yak-130... more yak order in line... yet to be signed off


why not ? its truth that BD is poor country and gov can not barrow and spend like others . you need to show something to get loans . 

for 1 and half squadron fighters a stupid need 4 squadrons of trainers  or bangladesh may be train them and then lease them to some countries  

yak and k8 are not trainers they are light attack fighters for bangladesh

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> @Imran Khan @Nilgiri
> Bangladesh cannot buy fighter jets because they have a master (India) to warship.
> Besides this hypocritical idiot's blame America and EU for sanctions which they dont understand. Bangladesh does not fall into the category of US CAATSA act but these morons think US will sanction after buying F-16 or Gripen or Super Hornet.
> Actually fact is this https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/
> 
> Think BAF Wing Commander was in a role of deputy director of Rapid Action Battalion for two years. If you don't fly for two years, you will be out of touch of the previous roles. Why are BAF sending fighter jet pilot to UN peacekeeping mission? They are coming back from UN mission and crashing aircraft. These are retards, that's all.


Only one k-8 crashed... the article says k-8 crashes regularly...
Yak-130 have been compensated for as per guarantee after technical fault was found. 

Fanboy hate articles are now considered realiable source in this forum!? But then ofc the hypocrites here use Wordpress articles when it sings to their agenda. 
Just see the flight safety record of the regional air force before coming up with wacky suggestions

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## Imran Khan

shourov323 said:


> because we were poor and that was way back in 90s..but u are super rich people..what kind of rich people beg to others ??
> 
> tor lenja deikha felaisi re beruni..ki re khankir pola beruni,nijer desh er naam e bodnam r mitthachar korte shorom kore na tor??


super rich ahhhhhahahahahahahhah


can you show me some of rich of BD  we called here a poor BHOOKA BENGALI even now 

can you open a page of etreame poverty of world in 2018

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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> the problem is if someone try to correct them they start bashing. we are on defense forum and sure we discuss defense anf weapons here but Bangladesh is not a military power or a military worth talks every day . so they bash day night others troll and day dream . Bangladesh need to work many more years before think about some fighters . Bangladesh need development more then weapons and bd gov know it .a country with 170 million people having an airline owned 8 planes .gov have to feed millions under deep poverty public .weapons did not help BD . but they need something to talk on defense forums so they start doing it since ages 1998 was the year i got internet in my home in Pakistan since then i am reading these rants .rather then simply accepting these fact they bash india paksitan day night here .
> 
> 
> why not ? its truth that BD is poor country and gov can not barrow and spend like others . you need to show something to get loans .
> 
> for 1 and half squadron fighters a stupid need 4 squadrons of trainers  or bangladesh may be train them and then lease them to some countries
> 
> yak and k8 are not trainers they are light attack fighters for bangladesh


They’re in training squadron. None are in attack squadron. 
But yes, a poor country with political incompetency brings bad luck to whatever it has that can be called military


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## The Ronin

polanski said:


> bdmilitary.com and defense update Bangladesh buy fighter jet and helicopter every week.



Hang on a second if you are really an American how do you understand what Defense Update Bangladesh say in their video cause all of them in Bengali!!

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> Only one k-8 crashed... the article says k-8 crashes regularly...
> Yak-130 have been compensated for as per guarantee after technical fault was found.
> 
> Fanboy hate articles are now considered realiable source in this forum!? But then ofc the hypocrites here use Wordpress articles when it sings to their agenda.
> Just see the flight safety record of the regional air force before coming up with wacky suggestions


one need proper airforce to see safety records regional countries have more # of wings in one wing then whole Bangladesh air force . i think indian-pakistani one command have three or 4 times more then bd airforce .so how its honest ?

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> Hang on a second if you are really an American how do you understand what Defense Update Bangladesh say in their video cause all of them in Bengali!!




ki bolechhilum dada??eida "al haguni..."

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re in training squadron. None are in attack squadron.
> But yes, a poor country with political incompetency brings bad luck to whatever it has that can be called military


can you explain what will be use of trainer squadrons ?



shourov323 said:


> ki bolechhilum dada??eida "al haguni..."


english dude english

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> ki bolechhilum dada??eida "al haguni..."


Write in English. If you can't write in English then open a Bangladeshi forum where you will speak in your own language. Whole world knows who are you, half Indian and half Bangladeshi. I am sure your master (Modi) is happy for your stupidity.


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## ghost250

polanski said:


> Write in English. If you can't write in English then open a Bangladeshi forum where you will speak in your own language. Whole world knows who are you, half Indian and half Bangladeshi. I am sure your master (Modi) is happy for your stupidity.


tui ekta jaroj ...i was telling him that u r a great person,Mr. polanski..now tell me how did u understand "defense update of bangladesh" videos??bcoz they all r in bangla..are khankir pola akhno shomoy aseh..shikar kor j tui al beruni...

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Write in English. If you can't write in English then open a Bangladeshi forum where you will speak in your own language. Whole world knows who are you, half Indian and half Bangladeshi. I am sure your master (Modi) is happy for your stupidity.


This is the internet, ain’t no rules and regulations to speak in a particular language.



Imran Khan said:


> one need proper airforce to see safety records regional countries have more # of wings in one wing then whole Bangladesh air force . i think indian-pakistani one command have three or 4 times more then bd airforce .so how its honest ?


Even if the number was a lot... would that automatically result to more crashes in BAF!?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...ts_involving_military_aircraft_(2010–present)
Records of all the air forces crashes. Does it mean all the air forces are equally incompetent!?

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## Destranator

polanski said:


> @Imran Khan @Nilgiri
> Bangladesh cannot buy fighter jets because they have a master (India) to warship.
> Besides this hypocritical idiot's blame America and EU for sanctions which they dont understand. Bangladesh does not fall into the category of US CAATSA act but these morons think US will sanction after buying F-16 or Gripen or Super Hornet.
> Actually fact is this https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/
> 
> Think BAF Wing Commander was in a role of deputy director of Rapid Action Battalion for two years. If you don't fly for two years, you will be out of touch of the previous roles. Why are BAF sending fighter jet pilot to UN peacekeeping mission? They are coming back from UN mission and crashing aircraft. These are retards, that's all.


Mr. Raihan Al-Beruni,
Please learn to construct proper English sentences before pretending to be American.



The Ronin said:


> Hang on a second if you are really an American how do you understand what Defense Update Bangladesh say in their video cause all of them in Bengali!!


Which non-Bangladeshi American takes so much interest in Bangladeshi defence matters? The opinions and pattern of grammatical errors in his posts are identical to those of Beruni's past posts in PDF and the now-defunct bdmilitary forum.

His articles in Dhaka Tribune are heavily edited.

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## 帅的一匹

Marine Rouge said:


> Indonesia outsourcing the overhaul and maintenance of her flanker fleet to Belarus. So far so good no problem happened.
> 
> Dont forget, MKM is kinda special because using lot of western Nav. Systems and components like Sagem Safran Nav., iff transponder and other stuff.


They induct a platform that they can't afford to fix. What a embarrassment.

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## AMG_12

Imran Khan said:


> one need proper airforce to see safety records regional countries have more # of wings in one wing then whole Bangladesh air force . i think indian-pakistani one command have three or 4 times more then bd airforce .so how its honest ?


According to Global Fire Power, Bangladesh is 57th largest military but according to PDF bangbandhus, their military might is comparable to that of superpowers and so they continue with the chest thumping. A single PAF base has more assets at it's disposal than whole BAF combined, quantitatively. BD guys shouldn't even talk about Qualitative edge cinsidering the fact J7 is their bread and butter.

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## ghost250

Game.Invade said:


> According to Global Fire Power, Bangladesh is 57th largest military but according to PDF bangbandhus, their military might is comparable to that of superpowers and so they continue with the chest thumping. A single PAF base has more assets at it's disposal than whole BAF combined, quantitatively. BD guys shouldn't even talk about Qualitative edge cinsidering the fact J7 is their bread and butter.


yes..though u r supa pawa,super rich..we kicked ur *** in 71..now plz cry a river..


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## Nike

wanglaokan said:


> They induct a platform that they can't afford to fix. What a embarrassment.



Should they do it in modest way, Malaysian love bling bling Arms.


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## Imran Khan

Game.Invade said:


> According to Global Fire Power, Bangladesh is 57th largest military but according to PDF bangbandhus, their military might is comparable to that of superpowers and so they continue with the chest thumping. A single PAF base has more assets at it's disposal than whole BAF combined, quantitatively. BD guys shouldn't even talk about Qualitative edge cinsidering the fact J7 is their bread and butter.


you are missing once again important fact Bangladesh have no airbase all they are using are civilion airports as air bases . 4 civilian airports are being used as military bases . so in case of war enemy have to attack civilian airport .even there is no special military academy for air force they use civilian jessore air port as academy .also remember there is no airport /base in bangladesh with two runways .even capital airport with one runway .a single shot of ANTI RUNWAY PENETRATION BOMB and airport/base will be out of war .

situation of 4 major airports/bases are worse then bus terminals or railway stations of Pakistani tair-3 cities.our homes in pakistan are bigger then many airports in bangladesh


jessore airport/base






shah amanat airport chitagong 2nd larjest in BD



\

cox bazar air base /port





tajgaon old dahaka airport used as base





and BD largest airbase /port dahaka







shourov323 said:


> yes..though u r supa pawa,super rich..we kicked ur *** in 71..now plz cry a river..


who stop you guys since 1971 to be a developed country ? its internet era we can see sonar bangla from here . and 1971 was good that we are freed from that place . we are happy .
how many airports you guys made since 1971?
how many metro are in bangladesh since 1971?
how many rail links you guys made since 1971
how many cities like gawadar -islamabad you guys made since 1971?
how many sea pots you guys made since 1971 ?
what is military buildup since you are free from 1971?
how your air force and airlines look like since 1971 ?
how many expressways motorways you guys made since 1971 ?
did we stopped you make flood system for bd since 1971 even dahaka go under water ?
the rickshaw which in your trade mark was banned and given yellow cabs in pakistan some 30 years ago .do we stopped you since 1971 ?


all i can see dirt poor country and too much bla bla on internet . @Nilgiri

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## AMG_12

Every cause and solution of a problem in Bangladesh is to bring in 1971, blame Pakistan for the piss poor condition of their country and move on. It's also a case of red herring, something theyre well qualified in.



Imran Khan said:


> you are missing once again important fact Bangladesh have no airbase all they are using are civilion airports as air bases . 4 civilian airports are being used as military bases . so in case of war enemy have to attack civilian airport .even there is no special military academy for air force they use civilian jessore air port as academy .also remember there is no airport /base in bangladesh with two runways .even capital airport with one runway .a single shot of ANTI RUNWAY PENETRATION BOMB and airport/base will be out of war .
> 
> situation of 4 major airports/bases are worse then bus terminals or railway stations of Pakistani tair-3 cities.our homes in pakistan are bigger then many airports in bangladesh
> 
> 
> jessore airport/base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shah amanat airport chitagong 2nd larjest in BD
> 
> 
> 
> \
> 
> cox bazar air base /port
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tajgaon old dahaka airport used as base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and BD largest airbase /port dahaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who stop you guys since 1971 to be a developed country ? its internet era we can see sonar bangla from here . and 1971 was good that we are freed from that place . we are happy .
> how many airports you guys made since 1971?
> how many metro are in bangladesh since 1971?
> how many rail links you guys made since 1971
> how many cities like gawadar -islamabad you guys made since 1971?
> how many sea pots you guys made since 1971 ?
> what is military buildup since you are free from 1971?
> how your air force and airlines look like since 1971 ?
> how many expressways motorways you guys made since 1971 ?
> did we stopped you make flood system for bd since 1971 even dahaka go under water ?
> the rickshaw which in your trade mark was banned and given yellow cabs in pakistan some 30 years ago .do we stopped you since 1971 ?
> 
> 
> all i can see dirt poor country and too much bla bla on internet .


Exactly, look at their military infrastructure. They stalled all development after 1971 and started worshipping bangbandhu. Our GT roads are better than their runways let alone our forward bases. The country is a clusterfck but all they're concerned about is telling us Pakistanis how good of traitors they were and how their economy is doing wonders while they drown in their own swamp of a country.

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## ghost250

Imran Khan said:


> you are missing once again important fact Bangladesh have no airbase all they are using are civilion airports as air bases . 4 civilian airports are being used as military bases . so in case of war enemy have to attack civilian airport .even there is no special military academy for air force they use civilian jessore air port as academy .also remember there is no airport /base in bangladesh with two runways .even capital airport with one runway .a single shot of ANTI RUNWAY PENETRATION BOMB and airport/base will be out of war .
> 
> situation of 4 major airports/bases are worse then bus terminals or railway stations of Pakistani tair-3 cities.our homes in pakistan are bigger then many airports in bangladesh
> 
> 
> jessore airport/base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shah amanat airport chitagong 2nd larjest in BD
> 
> 
> 
> \
> 
> cox bazar air base /port
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tajgaon old dahaka airport used as base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and BD largest airbase /port dahaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who stop you guys since 1971 to be a developed country ? its internet era we can see sonar bangla from here . and 1971 was good that we are freed from that place . we are happy .
> how many airports you guys made since 1971?
> how many metro are in bangladesh since 1971?
> how many rail links you guys made since 1971
> how many cities like gawadar -islamabad you guys made since 1971?
> how many sea pots you guys made since 1971 ?
> what is military buildup since you are free from 1971?
> how your air force and airlines look like since 1971 ?
> how many expressways motorways you guys made since 1971 ?
> did we stopped you make flood system for bd since 1971 even dahaka go under water ?
> the rickshaw which in your trade mark was banned and given yellow cabs in pakistan some 30 years ago .do we stopped you since 1971 ?
> 
> 
> all i can see dirt poor country and too much bla bla on internet .



why u pakisthani's so concerned about us??its u nd ur countrymen started jumping ups and downs in this subforum..u dragged ur sorry *** here nd started comparing ur pathetic airforce with our airforce,an airforce which couldnt do shit when US bombed and wiped out ur sorry asses in ur tribal areas.."we have more asset than ur entire airforce..." bla bla....where was ur chupa pawa airforce that time??..nd if u want to compare our infrastructure and economy with urs then plz open a new thread..



Game.Invade said:


> Every cause and solution of a problem in Bangladesh is to bring in 1971, blame Pakistan for the piss poor condition of their country and move on. It's also a case of red herring, something theyre well qualified in.
> 
> 
> Exactly, look at their military infrastructure. They stalled all development after 1971 and started worshipping bangbandhu. Our GT roads are better than their runways let alone our forward bases. The country is a clusterfck but all they're concerned about is telling us Pakistanis how good of traitors they were and how their economy is doing wonders while they drown in their own swamp of a country.


yes,our economy is doing wonders..

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/why-is-bangladesh-booming/

https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/bangladesh-set-to-reach-economic-par-with-india/

https://qz.com/india/964114/the-happiest-economic-story-in-the-world-right-now/

if u have problem with our success stories then plz tell ur mods to shut down this subforum..

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## Imran Khan

shourov323 said:


> why u pakisthani's so concerned about us??its u nd ur countrymen started jumping ups and downs in this subforum..u dragged ur sorry *** here nd started comparing ur pathetic airforce with our airforce,an airforce which couldnt do shit when US bombed and wiped out ur sorry asses in ur tribal areas.."we have more asset than ur entire airforce..." bla bla....where was ur chupa pawa airforce that time??..nd if u want to compare our infrastructure and economy with urs then plz open a new thread..


lolllzz we are concerned or we show you mirror which you do not want to see? our arse is here because it is PAKISTAN defense forum you are here because you want to be PAKISTAN defense forum . we did not join kangla desh forums . yeah our air force is pathetic  so you have no answer but BLA BLA BLA 

there is very little to discuss on bangladesh defense forum as there is no noticeable military in Bangladesh so you guys troll waste bandwidth of pakistani forum and keep bashing . hardly after months a military news come from bangladesh its also our fault ?

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## Avicenna

zain41 said:


> There’s no point in arguing with bengalis they are just delusional as ****



No. There's a crap load of trolling by non-Bengalis here. What do you want the Bengalis here to do? Just shut up and take it?

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## Imran Khan

Game.Invade said:


> Every cause and solution of a problem in Bangladesh is to bring in 1971, blame Pakistan for the piss poor condition of their country and move on. It's also a case of red herring, something theyre well qualified in.
> 
> 
> Exactly, look at their military infrastructure. They stalled all development after 1971 and started worshipping bangbandhu. Our GT roads are better than their runways let alone our forward bases. The country is a clusterfck but all they're concerned about is telling us Pakistanis how good of traitors they were and how their economy is doing wonders while they drown in their own swamp of a country.


its not joke pakistani motorways can land aircrafts and take from them . 

mirage landing on motorway M2










takeoff from motorway





f-7 landing on motorway










k8 landing on motorway

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> its not joke pakistani motorways can land aircrafts and take from them .
> 
> mirage landing on motorway M2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> takeoff from motorway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> f-7 landing on motorway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 490811
> 
> 
> k8 landing on motorway



Thats great.

Why do you post here so often then?


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> No. There's a crap load of trolling by non-Bengalis here. What do you want the Bengalis here to do? Just shut up and take it?


if they have real military news we will be happy to disscuss 
buying f-16 f-18 rafale typhoon j-10 su-35 mig-35 gripin every other week threads invite trolling . and if someone rise question they start bashing rather then answer . 0.01% technical discussion here



Avicenna said:


> Thats great.
> 
> Why do you post here so often then?


it is all over internet first was mashaq then k-8 and then fighter jets landings here

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> if they have real military news we will be happy to disscuss
> buying f-16 f-18 rafale typhoon j-10 su-35 mig-35 gripin every other week threads invite trolling . and if someone rise question they start bashing rather then answer . 0.01% technical discussion here



No body is saying anything other than BAF will be inducting a new type soon. 

It's anybody's guess as to what it is.

Most likely candidates are some sort of Fulcrum or Flanker variant. 

J-10 is a rumor, but also plausible given BAF's acquistion history.

Gripen and Typhoon are fanboy dreams.

This is the BAF subforum. People come here to discuss things related to the BAF.

What the hell are you doing here other than taunting and trolling?


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> No body is saying anything other than BAF will be inducting a new type soon.
> 
> It's anybody's guess as to what it is.
> 
> Most likely candidates are some sort of Fulcrum or Flanker variant.
> 
> J-10 is a rumor, but also plausible given BAF's acquistion history.
> 
> Gripen and Typhoon are fanboy dreams.
> 
> This is the BAF subforum. People come here to discuss things related to the BAF.
> 
> What the hell are you doing here other than taunting and trolling?


well i am sure it will be chines or russian fighter but not sure about J-10 as it will go in indian hands china will hesitate to sale . but one thing is sure next fighter will be from china or russia EU or US materiel is very expensive and also its had to geet for BD and maintain . mig-35 is best candidate for me .


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## zain41

Avicenna said:


> No. There's a crap load of trolling by non-Bengalis here. What do you want the Bengalis here to do? Just shut up and take it?[/QUOTE.
> 
> Mate there is a reason for the crap load of trolling y’all get too easily excited over little things and I think In general you guys ignore underlying issues and portray Bangladesh as some sort of utopia and also honestly I think everyone here is sick of 1971 being used as an escape goat it’s been 50 years since then!!


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## Imran Khan

shourov323 said:


> waste bandwidth??but ur mods dont think so..nd yes,we will post more of our success stories to see u porkis burning ..now go,tell ur mods to shut down this subforum...nd stop crying..


lets see @Eagle @waz @Oscar whats mods think about

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## zain41

Avicenna said:


> You know you should remove this post. Really immature.



This is exactly the type of stuff I am talking about


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## ghost250

Avicenna said:


> You know you should remove this post. Really immature.


um not the one who started this name calling first,vhaijaan..


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## Imran Khan

zain41 said:


> Mate there is a reason for the crap load of trolling y’all get too easily excited over little things and I think In general you guys ignore underlying issues and portray Bangladesh as some sort of utopia and also honestly I think everyone here is sick of 1971 being used as an escape goat it’s been 50 years since then!!



well its the new era like shoukat aziz did to us all the economy was in media not on ground . they got too excited with news and statics its common human behavior . but we paksitanis learnt now a days a news for su-35 mig-35 or even j-31 for paksitan did not make us excited we make fun of the news ourselves . did not i have posted so much on AH1Z threads ?

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## Avicenna

shourov323 said:


> um not the one who started this name calling first,vhaijaan..



Doesn't matter. Two wrongs dont make a right.

Keep this subforum clean of the crap. Discuss BAF related issues.

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## Imran Khan

shourov323 said:


> um not the one who started this name calling first,vhaijaan..


you are idiot i will eat you and pork too  if i got a chance or there will be shortage of beef and bakra .

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> @Imran Khan @Game.Invade
> 
> Why you so mean to these BD fanboys guys? Let them have their dreams lol....it is just an escape from reality, please understand.
> 
> Let them sing their BAF song and be merry:



Cute.

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## Imran Khan

Nilgiri said:


> @Imran Khan @Game.Invade
> 
> Why you so mean to these BD fanboys guys? Let them have their dreams lol....it is just an escape from reality, please understand.
> 
> Let them sing their BAF song and be merry:


but there is no airbase even to park fighter jets sarkaar kya choubary ke chat per park kareen gay  i was unaware untill today that BD have no airbases and not a single airport with duel runway or even dahaka have single runway a tyre brust and airport shut down .how airforce will operate ? . even tair 2 cities multan and faisalabad and tair 3 city turbat airports have 2 runways

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> but there is no airbase even to park fighter jets sarkaar kya choubary ke chat per park kareen gay  i was unaware untill today that BD have no airbases and not a single airport with duel runway or even dahaka have single runway a tyre brust and airport shut down .how airforce will operate ? . even multan and faisalabad type airports have 2 runways



Yea very true. But it appears they are taking some action to address that.

There will be a new AFB in Syhlet and Barisal.

And the FOB in Cox's Bazar will undergo some sort of upgrade and apparently the new planes will be based there.

How much of this is true is anybody's guess but that's the official word from some guy in the government.


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Yea very true. But it appears they are taking some action to address that.
> 
> There will be a new AFB in Syhlet and Barisal.
> 
> And the FOB in Cox's Bazar will undergo some sort of upgrade and apparently the new planes will be based there.
> 
> How much of this is true is anybody's guess but that's the official word from some guy in the government.


they plan and talks are very old sir . gov can not dilver so they talk . 

since last 15 years they are planning a duel runway on capital Dhaka airport and not yet purchased the land .since 2002 they are replacing mig-29 i think it will be years to be this dream of having an airbase will be true

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> they plan and talks are very old sir . gov can not dilver so they talk .
> 
> since last 15 years they are planning a duel runway on capital Dhaka airport and not yet purchased the land .since 2002 they are replacing mig-29 i think it will be years to be this dream of having an airbase will be true



Maybe. But thats all we have to go on for now.


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## waz

If your posts are not about the BAF then please don’t post here.

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## Nilgiri

Imran Khan said:


> how airforce will operate ?



Hire a good team of ex-soviet AF landing gear engineers


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Maybe. But thats all we have to go on for now.


they are building at cox bazar civilian airport at runway end some tarmic sir . this airport not even have proper taxiways . they make slots od runway to turn aircrafts . this place did not deserve to be an airport let alone an airbase . airbases need massive hangers taxiways from all sides of runways bathways emergancy exits and launching stations and so on . if someone dron a single bomb on this cox bazar base/port's on any place of runway it will be out of war.look here

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## Bilal9

Imran Khan said:


> they are building at cox bazar civilian airport at runway end some tarmic sir . this airport not even have proper taxiways . they make slots od runway to turn aircrafts . this place did not deserve to be an airport let alone an airbase . airbases need massive hangers taxiways from all sides of runways bathways emergancy exits and launching stations and so on . if someone dron a single bomb on this cox bazar base/port's on any place of runway it will be out of war.look here
> View attachment 490817
> 
> 
> View attachment 490818



I don't think they have started the construction of hangars and taxiways at CXB. Plus Google images are usually at least two years old. Usually older.

I believe the runway was also widened and lengthened recently which is not shown in your map above. Expanding the runway is only the first of a series of steps to upgrade the airport, which includes building a brand new terminal and passenger/cargo handling facilities as well as BAF installations adjacent to the runway.

From wiki,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox's_Bazar_Airport#Upgrade

"The airport is in process of being upgraded to an international airport, in order to attract more tourists,[1][2] which will make it the fourth international airport in Bangladesh.[3] The two phases of upgrading, will make the airport able to provide better facilities for parking, landing and take-off for wide-body aircraft. The whole project is ৳6 billion (US$77 million) project.[4]

The airport's runway currently has been expanded from 6790 feet to 9000 feet, and will be widened from 150 feet to 200 feet. The runway's load capability will be strengthened for wide-body operation, while the runway lighting will also get an upgrade. Equipment such as instrument landing system, distance measuring equipment, AMeDAS and VOR will be installed.[5]"

Therefore CXB has a wider runway (and almost as long) compared to Dhaka. Which is sufficient to handle B787-10, B777-300ER, B777-9, B747-8 as well as A380 aircraft.

More importantly - what is your point? 

Airbase/airport construction with dual runways in Bangladesh does not get same type of priority as does in a 'fauji' country like Pakistan where a lion's share of the yearly budget goes into defense-related infrastructure. Pakistan more or less is in a constant war-footing, we are not, as far as I can see. Our priority is preparedness and training more or less, which has intensified as the economy has improved and funding becomes available. We also have to balance regional politics in defense purchases unlike Pakistan.

More defense infrastructure (like CXB airbase) is being built but I doubt we will be in a situation like Pakistan to be armed to the teeth for nuclear war. Our economy and quality of human resources development (housing, health, literacy) will take priority at this time so their quality of labor can be eventually used as a basis to improve the economy in a robust manner.

Dhaka (DAC) does just fine 99% of the time with a single runway (14/32 with Length X Width of 10500 ft x 150 ft) and high speed exits and taxiways. One or two aircraft accidents in a year does not warrant the cost of building a second runway. BAF base Bashar at Dhaka is adjacent to the airport and BAF can utilize the runway for maximum utilization and efficiency for training and instrument test sorties.

DAC was built in the 1960's and was state of the art then. The Bashar airbase was built opposite the airport later so BAF could utilize the runway. 

Until recently, passenger handling at the two DAC terminals was sufficient and did not exceed design capacity. Dhaka's new third passenger terminal is being built (construction will start third or fourth quarter of this year) to more than double DAC's passenger handling capacity in the interim before a brand new multi-runway larger international airport will be built away from Dhaka. At that time DAC will revert to being an airforce facility and domestic operations airport for which it's scope will extend to two more decades. Tons more infra is being built on the airport property such as several five star hotels and convention centers. You probably are not aware of any of this.

Building runways in a mostly moisture-less rocky and sandy country like Pakistan and a humid swampy land like Bangladesh are way different affairs, both cost-wise and activity-wise. So there is no point in comparing these situations.

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## Imran Khan

Bilal9 said:


> I don't think they have started the construction of hangars and taxiways at CXB. Plus Google images are usually at least two years old. Usually older.
> 
> I believe the runway was also widened and lengthened recently which is not shown in your map above.
> 
> From wiki,
> 
> "The airport is in process of being upgraded to an international airport, in order to attract more tourists,[1][2] which will make it the fourth international airport in Bangladesh.[3] The two phases of upgrading, will make the airport able to provide better facilities for parking, landing and take-off for wide-body aircraft. The whole project is ৳6 billion (US$77 million) project.[4]
> 
> The airport's runway currently has been expanded from 6790 feet to 9000 feet, and will be widened from 150 feet to 200 feet. The runway's load capability will be strengthened for wide-body operation, while the runway lighting will also get an upgrade. Equipment such as instrument landing system, distance measuring equipment, AMeDAS and VOR will be installed.[5]"
> 
> Therefore CXB has a wider runway (and almost as long) compared to Dhaka.
> 
> More importantly - what is your point?
> 
> Airbase/airport construction with dual runways in Bangladesh does not get same type of priority as does in a 'fauji' country like Pakistan where a lion's share of the yearly budget goes into defense-related infrastructure. Pakistan more or less is in a constant war-footing, we are not, as far as I can see. Our priority is preparedness and training more or less, which has intensified as the economy has improved and funding becomes available. We also have to balance regional politics in defense purchases unlike Pakistan.
> 
> More defense infrastructure (like CXB airbase) is being built but I doubt we will be in a situation like Pakistan to be armed to the teeth for nuclear war. Our economy and quality of human resources development (housing, health, literacy) will take priority at this time so their quality of labor can be eventually used as a basis to improve the economy in a robust manner.
> 
> Dhaka (DAC) does just fine 99% of the time with a single runway (14/32 with Length X Width of 10500 ft x 150 ft) and high speed exits and taxiways. One or two aircraft accidents in a year does not warrant the cost of building a second runway. BAF base Bashar at Dhaka is adjacent to the airport and BAF can utilize the runway for maximum utilization and efficiency.
> 
> DAC was built in the 1960's and was state of the art then. Until recently, passenger handling at the two terminals was sufficient and did not exceed design capacity. Dhaka's new third terminal is being built (construction will start third or fourth quarter of this year) to double its passenger handling capacity in the interim before a brand new multi runway larger international airport will be built away from Dhaka. At that time DAC will revert to being an airforce facility and domestic operations airport for which it's scope will extend to two more decades. Tons more infra is being built on the airport property such as several five star hotels and convention centers. You probably are not aware of any of this.
> 
> Building runways in a mostly moisture-less rocky and sandy country like Pakistan and a humid swampy land like Bangladesh are way different affairs, both cost-wise and activity-wise. So there is no point in comparing these situations.


my dear google images arenot 2 years old in fact they mention the dateon it what date image was taken 19/02/2018 counstruction site is clearly visible from runway end is apron .
you guys are really hard to understand . when we said same that health education is priority not to buy jets you troll us and then you yourself say same . that is what we are saying since ages here . runways upgrade is not only airport . multiple options runways are must for major airport today upgraded radars communication systems lounges and services are important too . please google how many time DAC was shut down because of single runway .even routine cleaning and maintenance they shut down airport .
last time it was 15 days ago it was shut down for 2 hours 
http://www.unb.com.bd/bangladesh-ne...ne-blast-while-landing-at-Dhaka-airport/76123


DAC was an airport but today its messed up bus stand and all of the airport pics you seen above not worth to call airports .while you bashing my forces for lion shear i don't think our airports are for forces they are for civilions billions of$ paid to build upgrade airports for us common public .
last but no last you guys are really smart calling whole Pakistan humid swampy land. just wow . from karachi to skardu paksitan is humid swampy land. how many airports in bangladesh are covered in ICE ?

these are airbases 





these are airports as per CAA

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Yea very true. But it appears they are taking some action to address that.
> 
> There will be a new AFB in Syhlet and Barisal.
> 
> And the FOB in Cox's Bazar will undergo some sort of upgrade and apparently the new planes will be based there.
> 
> How much of this is true is anybody's guess but that's the official word from some guy in the government.



Don't forget Mongla and Payra will have new combined airbases and airports as well. These are well beyond planning funding and land-acquisition phase.



Imran Khan said:


> my dear google images arenot 2 years old in fact they mention the dateon it what date image was taken 19/02/2018 counstruction site is clearly visible from runway end is apron .
> you guys are really hard to understand . when we said same that health education is priority not to buy jets you troll us and then you yourself say same . that is what we are saying since ages here . runways upgrade is not only airport . multiple options runways are must for major airport today upgraded radars communication systems lounges and services are important too . please google how many time DAC was shut down because of single runway .even routine cleaning and maintenance they shut down airport .
> last time it was 15 days ago it was shut down for 2 hours
> http://www.unb.com.bd/bangladesh-ne...ne-blast-while-landing-at-Dhaka-airport/76123
> 
> 
> DAC was an airport but today its messed up bus stand and all of the airport pics you seen above not worth to call airports .while you bashing my forces for lion shear i don't think our airports are for forces they are for civilions billions of$ paid to build upgrade airports for us common public .
> last but no last you guys are really smart calling whole Pakistan humid swampy land. just wow . from karachi to skardu paksitan is humid swampy land. how many airports in bangladesh are covered in ICE ?
> 
> these are airbases
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these are airports as per CAA



Please read my post again.


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> they are building at cox bazar civilian airport at runway end some tarmic sir . this airport not even have proper taxiways . they make slots od runway to turn aircrafts . this place did not deserve to be an airport let alone an airbase . airbases need massive hangers taxiways from all sides of runways bathways emergancy exits and launching stations and so on . if someone dron a single bomb on this cox bazar base/port's on any place of runway it will be out of war.look here
> View attachment 490817
> 
> 
> View attachment 490818


there is a marine drive in cox bazar designed with fighter operations in mind... well protected hangars mean shit in such a small country...

also the current international airport will shut down once the new airport is up and running... they declared kurmitola as base for this very reason... the aeronautical center is also located here... this i heard will be kept free from civilian traffic... ADIZ has been set up for this very purpose

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> there is a marine drive in cox bazar designed with fighter operations in mind... well protected hangars mean shit in such a small country...
> 
> also the current international airport will shut down once the new airport is up and running... they declared kurmitola as base for this very reason... the aeronautical center is also located here... this i heard will be kept free from civilian traffic... ADIZ has been set up for this very purpose



BD is not really that small. Only looks like it as India and Myanmar are so large.

I agree that Marine Drive will provide extra runways for fighter aircraft to take off in terms of war and the perfect aircraft for this very purpose is Gripen. Gripen has been designed to be able to take off from highways in times of war.

@Avicenna

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## Homo Sapiens

Imran Khan said:


> . even tair 2 cities multan and faisalabad and tair 3 city turbat airports have 2 runways


No, these three airport has single runway.Double runway present in Karachi Jinnah, Lahore A.Iqbal and the new Islamabad airport.All other airports has single runway.Check wikipedia.



Bilal9 said:


> Airbase/airport construction with dual runways in Bangladesh does not get same type of priority as does in a 'fauji' country like Pakistan where a lion's share of the yearly budget goes into defense-


Comparing military infrastructure and weapon inventory of Pakistan with Bangladesh is like comparing apple with orange.Much of Pakistan's military infrastructure like airbase were built in 1950s and 1960s when fat defence budget paid by both east and west Pakistan was spent to strengthen the defence of west Pakistan.Plus US was pouring billion dollar of military aid then.In 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, Pakistan's defence budget was 7-8 times bigger than Bangladesh in nominal terms, 6-7 percent of Pak GDP was being spent on military then.Then Pakistan's per capita GDP was 2-3 times of Bangladesh.Pakistan's defence budget is 3 times bigger than Bangladesh even today.There is no wonder that Pakistan will have multiple dedicated airbase with 2-3 runway while Bangladesh may not even have a single dedicated airbase up till date.One do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that there will be a huge gap between these two military.

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## Avicenna

Please stop comparing Pakistan and Bangladesh. 

It’s like comparing apples and oranges.

Rather think about whatever unique challenges Bangladesh faces. i.e. potential skirmishes with Myanmar and whatever steps BAF needs to take to deal with them.

In terms if Cox’s Bazaar. Man its so close to the border. I know BAF plans on using it as a FOB. But its so vulnerable to short range SSM. 

I know I am beating this dead horse to death but Gripen/Eireye would be perfect for BAF for a number of reasons. One of which is its short field performance and thus its ability to use roadways. @UKBengali 

Bangladesh isn’t planning for war against India or for that matter Myanmar.

It just needs the ability to defend itself effectively in case of actual conflict as well as have enough of a perceived strength to deter potential political situations which may lead to that conflict.

As we have seen, no one takes the Bangladesh military seriously today.

The goal should be to change that with FG 2030.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Please stop comparing Pakistan and Bangladesh.
> 
> It’s like comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> Rather think about whatever unique challenges Bangladesh faces. i.e. potential skirmishes with Myanmar and whatever steps BAF needs to take to deal with them.
> 
> In terms if Cox’s Bazaar. Man its so close to the border. I know BAF plans on using it as a FOB. But its so vulnerable to short range SSM.
> 
> I know I am beating this dead horse to death but Gripen/Eireye would be perfect for BAF for a number of reasons. One of which is its short field performance and thus its ability to use roadways. @UKBengali
> 
> Bangladesh isn’t planning for war against India or for that matter Myanmar.
> 
> It just needs the ability to defend itself effectively in case of actual conflict as well as have enough of a perceived strength to deter potential political situations which may lead to that conflict.
> 
> As we have seen, no one takes the Bangladesh military seriously today.
> 
> The goal should be to change that with FG 2030.



Coz Bazaar airbase is being set up to allow strike/fighter planes to fly far out into Bay of Bengal - best location in BD for this purpose. The threat in mind is India and not Myanmar.


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## zain41

UKBengali said:


> Coz Bazaar airbase is being set up to allow strike/fighter planes to fly far out into Bay of Bengal - best location in BD for this purpose. The threat in mind is India and not Myanmar.



Indian navy can easily take it out tho hmm

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Coz Bazaar airbase is being set up to allow strike/fighter planes to fly far out into Bay of Bengal - best location in BD for this purpose. The threat in mind is India and not Myanmar.



There’s a much more likely scenario of conflict with Myanmar rather than India.

I’m not educated in military tactics other than playing various flight simulations and Harpoon while growing up so I don’t know much if at all. But speaking as a layman, I would think the main goal would be to deny Bangladesh airspace to any intruding aircraft. Secondly, combat air support for BA as well as Air interdiction. Thirdly, support of BN forces in the BOB.

In that context, what equipment do you think is needed? Both fighter aircraft as well as SAMS as well as support aircraft?

Given the current financial and political constraints and you were the Air Chief what would you do?

@UKBengali @bluesky @Homo Sapiens @Centaur @Cycle Macson @The Ronin @shourov323 @Bilal9 @mb444 @Al-Ansar @Michael Corleone

And any others I may have missed.

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## Imran Khan

Homo Sapiens said:


> No, these three airport has single runway.Double runway present in Karachi Jinnah, Lahore A.Iqbal and the new Islamabad airport.All other airports has single runway.Check wikipedia.
> 
> 
> Comparing military infrastructure and weapon inventory of Pakistan with Bangladesh is like comparing apple with orange.Much of Pakistan's military infrastructure like airbase were built in 1950s and 1960s when fat defence budget paid by both east and west Pakistan was spent to strengthen the defence of west Pakistan.Plus US was pouring billion dollar of military aid then.In 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, Pakistan's defence budget was 7-8 times bigger than Bangladesh in nominal terms, 6-7 percent of Pak GDP was being spent on military then.Then Pakistan's per capita GDP was 2-3 times of Bangladesh.Pakistan's defence budget is 3 times bigger than Bangladesh even today.There is no wonder that Pakistan will have multiple dedicated airbase with 2-3 runway while Bangladesh may not even have a single dedicated airbase up till date.One do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that there will be a huge gap between these two military.


i am not 6 years old to get info from wiki

multan old runway was single until 2010 and then they made new bigger unway so now they have both primry use is new bigger runway emergancy and smaller aircraft can use old smaller runway

you can see it by you own eyes







turbat made new runway some 5 years ago so old one one is operational as secendry runway





faisalabad have go another runway few years ago when load was for hujj flights and b747s land here frequently






and lolllz at your info only lahore karachi islamabad have deul runway ? what about quetta peshawar ?






and your claim of 1950 and being a victim of 1971 is too funny . those airports of 1970s are nor flying clubs like walton and old karachi airport . paksitan build massive airports in 1980s and then again in recent years multan sialkot faisalabad turbat gawadar islamabad got new airpots . even now work is ongoing at peshawar quetta and many more places . these are civilian projects . its not bangladesh we blame everything to 1971 lolllz you think we are using 50 years old air bases ? if we do the same india will have overtake us since ages .karachi city have more runways hen whole bangladesh as a country 
2 runways at jinnah terminal
2 runways at PAF masroor
1 runway at PN /paf base faisal
2 runways a malir can be operational at war times 

PAF has own style of work in 2015 December ground breaking of bholari
*Khawaja Asif lays foundation stone of PAF Bholari base in Jamshoro*
http://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/312294-Khawaja-Asif-lays-foundation-stone-of-PAF-Bholari-

2017 base was operational
*Pakistan Air Force Inaugurates Bholari Airbase*
http://flytewise.com/archives/206

airforce work like this not 50 years of independence and have no base call airbase







zain41 said:


> Indian navy can easily take it out tho hmm


they are one beach even high waves on sea can take down these airports/bases
runway and sea have few meters distance . lets blame 1971 for it

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## Imran Khan

zain41 said:


> They have a victim complex bro trust me there’s no point


its been 50 years now still they blame us for development i am surprised
in 1970s karachi used old airport
pindi use dhammiyal
lahore use walton
peshawar use badhaber
they all are ghost places now .world is moved long ahead since then . PAF have moved from old places to new like mirpur khas bholari shahbaz and kamra mianwali and many new era bases .
some airports are made for even not really needed do you know kadanwari airport thar desert ? they made it for thar coal . an desert airport in cholistan can handle b747 was made for hunting trips of shekhs i was really surprice when shekhs really landed an VVIP b747 jumbo jet of UAEroyal fleet at al habib(chandna air port in middle of desert )

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## Homo Sapiens

Avicenna said:


> Please stop comparing Pakistan and Bangladesh.
> 
> It’s like comparing apples and oranges.


Bangladeshi posters here did not start this comparison.The common tactic is, when some Bangladeshi posters discuss among themselves possible fighter procurement or other development in other threads, some pakistanis jump here and start mocking, ridiculing.If any Bangladeshi poster counter their mocking, then they start comparing roads, airport etc.This is the pattern happening all the times.

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## Avicenna

waz said:


> If your posts are not about the BAF then please don’t post here.



Please note this thread after you posted this. You were as clear as day.

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## Homo Sapiens

Imran Khan said:


> situation of 4 major airports/bases are worse then bus terminals or railway stations of Pakistani tair-3 cities.our homes in pakistan are bigger then many airports in bangladesh
> 
> 
> jessore airport/base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shah amanat airport chitagong 2nd larjest in BD
> 
> 
> 
> \
> 
> cox bazar air base /port
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tajgaon old dahaka airport used as base
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and BD largest airbase /port dahaka


If you put things into it's proper context then the looks of these airports will make sense.Domestic air passenger volume in BD is very small.It crossed 1 million only recently.Even 5 years ago, it was less than half a million.Biman Bangladesh airlines even suspended domestic operation other than Chittagong and Sylhet for many years.These domestic terminal buildings, which were built in 1960s and 1970s was more than enough to handle that small amount of passenger every year.Building modern and beautiful terminal building would have been an wastage of scarce public money back then.Bangladesh has lowest tax to GDP ratio in south Asia and among the lowest in the world.So not much option for govt. to doll out money on less important things. It is only now that capacity of these airports are running out and govt. has taken initiative to upgrade these domestic airports.

*Land acquisition starts for upgrading eight airports*
*CAAB submits report to JS body*
https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/...tarts-for-upgrading-eight-airports-1527910635

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## polanski

@Imran Khan @Nilgiri @Aung Zaya 

Here is the true state of Bangladesh Military. How do an Army fund $300m-$400m dollar to build connecting road for padma bridge unless they divert defense budget to commercial activities. That applies to all three branches of military. Then they cry that military does not have money to buy weapons. 
Bangladesh Navy started commercial coal supply business to power station, a Indo-Bangla joint venture. Then Navy buys gradpa submarine and complaint about short of funding to buy new submarine.

Air force if full retarded people. Howcome fighter jet pilots are transferred to Rapid Action Battalion and UN peace support missions. What a fighter pilot does in Rapid Action Battalion and UN peace support mission. Bangladesh does not have noticable fighter jet and never used them in peace missions. Thats why it is called "peace support mission", morons! 
https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/bangladesh-military-as-inept-as-it-is-corrupt/

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## The Ronin

shourov323 said:


> ki bolechhilum dada??eida "al haguni..."



He was cool and polite when he first joined in this thread. Said he don't care about BD. But now he suddenly got triggered and went berserk like Al Beruni. "ইদুনে"ও হইতে পারে, ঐ ব্যাটা অনেকদিন হইছে কিছু বলে না।



polanski said:


> @Imran Khan @Nilgiri @Aung Zaya
> 
> Here is the true state of Bangladesh Military. How do an Army fund $300m-$400m dollar to build connecting road for padma bridge unless they divert defense budget to commercial activities. That applies to all three branches of military. Then they cry that military does not have money to buy weapons.
> Bangladesh Navy started commercial coal supply business to power station, a Indo-Bangla joint venture. Then Navy buys gradpa submarine and complaint about short of funding to buy new submarine.
> 
> Air force if full retarded people. Howcome fighter jet pilots are transferred to Rapid Action Battalion and UN peace support missions. What a fighter pilot does in Rapid Action Battalion and UN peace support mission. Bangladesh does not have noticable fighter jet and never used them in peace missions. Thats why it is called "peace support mission", morons!
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/bangladesh-military-as-inept-as-it-is-corrupt/





polanski said:


> @Imran Khan @Nilgiri
> Bangladesh cannot buy fighter jets because they have a master (India) to warship.
> Besides this hypocritical idiot's blame America and EU for sanctions which they dont understand. Bangladesh does not fall into the category of US CAATSA act but these morons think US will sanction after buying F-16 or Gripen or Super Hornet.
> Actually fact is this https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/
> 
> Think BAF Wing Commander was in a role of deputy director of Rapid Action Battalion for two years. If you don't fly for two years, you will be out of touch of the previous roles. Why are BAF sending fighter jet pilot to UN peacekeeping mission? They are coming back from UN mission and crashing aircraft. These are retards, that's all.





polanski said:


> These hypocrites also beg money from America and EU to feed Rohingya refugees.
> They need to go to Putin and Xi to beg money for Rohingya. I am sure Putin will kick their a$$ if they beg money for Rohingya.
> bdmilitary.com and defense update Bangladesh buy fighter jet and helicopter every week. They bought su-30mk2 in 2012 and HQ-16 in 2012. Only problem is these military equipment never reached Bangladesh. These are absolutely morons.





polanski said:


> Write in English. If you can't write in English then open a Bangladeshi forum where you will speak in your own language. Whole world knows who are you, half Indian and half Bangladeshi. I am sure your master (Modi) is happy for your stupidity.



What's your problem huh?? Why are you acting like a rabid dog here suddenly?? What hypocrisy has to do anything with Rohingya donation?? With BAF's fighter procurement?? What point are you trying to establish here by repeating the same trash??!! Are you trying to suggest that we should beg money to you for buying fighters now?? If so, then it's up to our govt to decide!! That's non of your fucking business!! Many countries takes donation!! Even your Pakistani buddy here takes military aid which we don't even do. Still your president is angry with them for not eradicating terrorism properly. So why are you fixated on us?? If you have problem with the donation stop paying tax or cry in front of White House!! Ask your HRW not poke their nose too much here. (https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...et-rohingyas-pursue-livelihoods-outside-camps). But that doesn't give you mofo any right to come in our sub-forum and call us names and insult us. So behave yourself. People from other 3rd world countries behave far better than a trash like you from first world even when they troll or criticize here. So fart somewhere else.

If our officer join RAB or UN mission, it's up to him. RAB was created from all military and law enforcement from the very beginning!! If our military divert money to building bridge, buy coal, it's up to them!! Development gets more priority here than military. We are not warmonger like you nor we are in any hostile situation completely. Bloody wanker don't you know your daddy WB stopped funding for Padma Bridge for corruption but couldn't prove anything against us??? Where were you when Canada slapped you hard because of it???

And i don't think your trash talk about Rohingya donation matters actually. It's up to US and European govt to decide. You are only an American. you are neither European nor part of US Govt. You are actually NOBODY!! So don't act like a wild BABOON here.



polanski said:


> It's your country bro, not mine. I don't care if you buy or don't buy.



Looks like you bloody yanks can't keep up with your words. That's right!! this is OUR COUNTRY. You are an fucking OUTSIDER living far away in a different continent. This country has nothing to do with you, you own nothing here!! So stop barking here if you don't care!! BUGGER OFF A-HOLE!!!



Al-Ansar said:


> Which non-Bangladeshi American takes so much interest in Bangladeshi defence matters?



Doesn't matter whether he cares or not!! But he can't insult us like that!! Mofo just ran his filthy mouth without any provocation!! How dare he!! He still didn't answer my question.

@The Eagle @waz @WebMaster plz check this @polanski account thoroughly. Definitely a Bangladeshi false flagger pretending to be an American. Most probably previous account was @ara-beruni. A-HOLE is running his mouth and flaming the thread for quite sometimes.



polanski said:


> complaint about short of funding to buy new submarine.



Nobody said that here. Stop creating fairy tale here. Those Mings didn't even reach FOC yet. Nobody is stupid enough to buy new sub before creating enough skilled sailor first. BN is focused on 6 frigate project. New sub will be ordered after 2019.



polanski said:


> Then they cry that military does not have money to buy weapons.



Stop twisting words!! It's true we still can't afford western platform but there's no problem with Russian and Chinese!!

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## Bilal9

All hope is lost for Bangladesh Military Services. 

Military Services are actually doing nation building work instead of sitting around the mess drinking!

Engineering corps are building dams and bridges just like in the US, armed services members are getting paid for their own high quality NATO level training by working for the UN just like those of Scandinavian countries...

Thank God for the military in Bangladesh that they have seen the light unlike backward thinking armies of the subcontinent.

No need for further discussions on this topic, Thank You Very Much!

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## ghost250

@waz can u plz tell them again not to derail the thread?? ...


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> BD is not really that small. Only looks like it as India and Myanmar are so large.
> 
> I agree that Marine Drive will provide extra runways for fighter aircraft to take off in terms of war and the perfect aircraft for this very purpose is Gripen. Gripen has been designed to be able to take off from highways in times of war.
> 
> @Avicenna


that was the point i was trying to imply.... they can lose some airbases without much hesitation... for us it would be a disaster and hence there are more unprepared airfields than airbases in our country...


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## 帅的一匹

BAF Marshal flys J 7BGI 
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av28729395

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## Avicenna

wanglaokan said:


> BAF Marshal flys J 7BGI
> https://www.bilibili.com/video/av28729395



That is argueably the gayest music ever for an airplane video.


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## WebMaster

polanski said:


> These hypocrites also beg money from America and EU to feed Rohingya refugees.
> They need to go to Putin and Xi to beg money for Rohingya. I am sure Putin will kick their a$$ if they beg money for Rohingya.
> bdmilitary.com and defense update Bangladesh buy fighter jet and helicopter every week. They bought su-30mk2 in 2012 and HQ-16 in 2012. Only problem is these military equipment never reached Bangladesh. These are absolutely morons.


Quit the insults or you will get banned.

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## Imran Khan

wanglaokan said:


> BAF Marshal flys J 7BGI
> https://www.bilibili.com/video/av28729395


birds can be seen while landing a bit risky to fly


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## Nilgiri

Homo Sapiens said:


> Check wikipedia.



 That is how you get doctors diploma in BD? No wonder. 

@Imran Khan nice job on the ownage. 



Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh isn’t planning for war against India or for that matter Myanmar.



Smart man, but you can see from the reply below yours the delusion is too much.



polanski said:


> Then Navy buys gradpa submarine and complaint about short of funding to buy new submarine.



Typically how BD operates in general

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## 帅的一匹

Avicenna said:


> That is argueably the gayest music ever for an airplane video.


 the background music is weird. BAF Marshal flied both sigle and dual seater.


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## ghost250

Nilgiri said:


> That is how you get doctors diploma in BD? No wonder.
> 
> @Imran Khan nice job on the ownage.
> 
> 
> 
> Smart man, but you can see from the reply below yours the delusion is too much.
> 
> 
> 
> Typically how BD operates in general




https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ubmarines-from-China/articleshow/26750741.cms

though we bought old submarines,u indians almost had a heart attack that time..u will commit suicide whn we will buy more advanced one.. ..
"Why would Bangladesh need submarines? ..



Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

now have a good cry....


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## Nilgiri

shourov323 said:


> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ubmarines-from-China/articleshow/26750741.cms
> 
> though we bought old submarines,u indians almost had a heart attack that time..u will commit suicide whn we will buy more advanced one.. ..
> "Why would Bangladesh need submarines? ..
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at:
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
> 
> now have a good cry....



Good, you must buy the claptrap put out in media about "concerns" as first stage to ensure you stay as docile consumers (of say indian motorcycles) no matter what happens at borders and politically inside 

You prove all stereotypes about your lot so easily. Now go bash some Pakistanis about 1971 when we give you the order to....ready?

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Smart man, but you can see from the reply below yours the delusion is too much.



Delusion?

BD main threat is India and the military trains to fight you 1.2/3 billion lot all the time.

BAF also mainly trains to fight India - that is why it needs extremely high performance fighters and has already rejected JF-17 and Mig-35. Barman savages are no real threat.


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> birds can be seen while landing a bit risky to fly
> View attachment 491133


explains the helicopter crash i guess, send them to the gas chamber


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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Delusion?
> 
> BD main threat is India and the military trains to fight you 1.2/3 billion lot all the time.
> 
> BAF also mainly trains to fight India - that is why it needs extremely high performance fighters and has already rejected JF-17 and Mig-35. Barman savages are no real threat.



Sort it out with @Avicenna then, who is the real threat to BD right now.....given one so brazenly send 1 million people into your land in just a few days (and made sure with aerial violations that they stayed there) and you responded with just a few tears and fist shakes.....and in your personal case, guaranteed promises to at least shoot down the airspace violators...and it just kept happening and you slunk away. 

You just got manhandled and bloodied by them so bad...and you say "no real threat" LOL.

I feel for you man, you are much more natural BNP supporter (as far as India goes)....but they suck at politics and development optics....so you have bought into the "stability" BAL supposedly gives.....even though SHW loves having Modi drop by for some chai and some 1971 paintings exchanging

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Sort it out with @Avicenna then, who is the real threat to BD right now.....given one so brazenly send 1 million people into your land in just a few days (and made sure with aerial violations that they stayed there) and you responded with just a few tears and fist shakes.
> 
> You just got manhandled and bloodied by them so bad...and you say "no real threat" LOL.
> 
> I feel for you man, you are much more natural BNP supporter (as far as India goes)....but they suck at politics and development optics....so you have bought into the "stability" BAL supposedly gives.....even though SHW loves having Modi drop by for some chai and some 1971 paintings exchanging




Nah - I meant the real medium-long term threat is India.
Myanmar is just a temporary pest that can be put down once BAF has 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters and 1-2 of the next-gen frigates come into service. 

There are plenty of people like me in AL and they are just biting their lip as all focus is on the economy and infrastructure. I need not remind you what the BD military under AL did to your "military" in 2001.


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## AMG_12

UKBengali said:


> Delusion?
> 
> BD main threat is India and the military trains to fight you 1.2/3 billion lot all the time.
> 
> BAF also mainly trains to fight India - that is why it needs extremely high performance fighters and has already rejected JF-17 and Mig-35. Barman savages are no real threat.


Well can you give us one proof which states JF17 was offered to BD let alone rejected? Don't show me a picture of BD airmen posing with Thunder as I can show you a picture of PAF officials with F22 during Red Flag 2006 but I'm pretty sure it wasn't on offer. You see, you bring in these kind of madeup stories and then complain of derailment.

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## 帅的一匹

Game.Invade said:


> Well can you give us one proof which states JF17 was offered to BD let alone rejected? Don't show me a picture of BD airmen posing with Thunder as I can show you a picture of PAF officials with F22 during Red Flag 2006 but I'm pretty sure it wasn't on offer. You see, you bring in these kind of madeup stories and then complain of derailment.


As Myanmar is going for Jf17, the possibility of BAF inducting it is getting lower.



Imran Khan said:


> birds can be seen while landing a bit risky to fly
> View attachment 491133


They need some bird scaring equipment.

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## polanski

WebMaster said:


> Quit the insults or you will get banned.


@WebMaster They started it. I didn't. They write in Bangladeshi language to insult me. Please feel free to apply to the rules equally to everyone.


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## Destranator

polanski said:


> @WebMaster They started it. I didn't. They write in Bangladeshi language to insult me. Please feel free to apply to the rules equally to everyone.



How do you know it is to insult you?

@WebMaster He is a falseflagger. Please check his IP logs and cross check with @araberuni7 . The location should be Australia unless he is using VPN.


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## ghost250

Bangladesh airforce is on the verge to order 8 mil mi-35M helicopter gunships from russia..

pic credit-DTB

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## khanasifm

wanglaokan said:


> As Myanmar is going for Jf17, the possibility of BAF inducting it is getting lower.
> 
> 
> They need some bird scaring equipment.



Baf fly f-7s and k-8s so does Myanmar ?? Not sure what’s the logic 

http://www.scramble.nl/orbats/bangladesh/airforce


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## TopCat

Al-Ansar said:


> How do you know it is to insult you?
> 
> @WebMaster He is a falseflagger. Please check his IP logs and cross check with @araberuni7 . The location should be Australia unless he is using VPN.


what is yyiueyy


Al-Ansar said:


> How do you know it is to insult you?
> 
> @WebMaster He is a falseflagger. Please check his IP logs and cross check with @araberuni7 . The location should be Australia unless he is using VPN.



What is your problem.. he could be anything. If you dont like his opinion or criticism for BAF you can just simply ignore. I find his analysis interesting.

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## Destranator

TopCat said:


> what is yyiueyy
> 
> 
> What is your problem.. he could be anything. If you dont like his opinion or criticism for BAF you can just simply ignore. I find his analysis interesting.



And who are you to lecture me on that?

This guys falseflags and defames Bangladesh. Only a spineless person would not find it objectionable.

I agree with many of his technical opinions but he brings nothing new to the table.


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## 帅的一匹

khanasifm said:


> Baf fly f-7s and k-8s so does Myanmar ?? Not sure what’s the logic
> 
> http://www.scramble.nl/orbats/bangladesh/airforce


now they are considering MIG35 or SU 30.

the current rohongyas incident might change their minds.

they dont think of procuring JF 17 at the first begining although both Pakistan and China enthusiastically promoted it. they dont like indial, and dont trust Pakistan either.

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## The Ronin

polanski said:


> @WebMaster They started it. I didn't. They write in Bangladeshi language to insult me. Please feel free to apply to the rules equally to everyone.



Shameless liar!! Nobody attacked you until your last four threads. Filthy false flagger!!



TopCat said:


> What is your problem.. he could be anything. If you dont like his opinion or criticism for BAF you can just simply ignore. I find his analysis interesting.



I know you like this type of guy whoever insults our military and abuse them. You team-up with them and defend them just like you did with Al Beguni. What opinion did he give in his last four thread instead of insults and abusive word?? Bloody wanker doesn't even know how RAB was created in first place, why military funds is diverted to Padma bridge, says we can't afford new sub and don't have money to buy anything. Tells us to beg money to Russia-China for Rohingya donation (did it before). Mention other trolls to join him. Even other trolls here behave much than this wild Baboon!! Why an American cares so much about a 3rd world country's military?? How does this trash know what Defense Update Bangladesh say in their video?? This trash is definitely a false flagger!! Either he is Idune or Al- Haguni.

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> I know you like this type of guy whoever insults our military and abuse them. You team-up with them and defend them just like you did with Al Beguni. What opinion did he give in his last four thread instead of insults and abusive word?? Bloody wanker doesn't even know how RAB was created in first place, why military funds is diverted to Padma bridge, says we can't afford new sub and don't have money to buy anything. Tells us to beg money to Russia-China for Rohingya donation (did it before). Mention other trolls to join him. Even other trolls here behave much than this wild Baboon!! Why an American cares so much about a 3rd world country's military?? How does this trash know what Defense Update Bangladesh say in their video?? This trash is definitely a false flagger!! Either he is Idune or Al- Haguni.


If you cant take criticism lightly you should not join a forum where people express differing opinion. Go back to primary school.

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## The Ronin

TopCat said:


> If you cant take criticism lightly you should not join a forum where people express differing opinion. Go back to primary school.



Abusing and insulting people without any provocation, spewing garbage without knowing anything isn't criticism. Learn the definition of criticism first before suggesting people to go to primary school first.

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Abusing and insulting people without any provocation, spewing garbage without knowing anything isn't criticism. Learn the definition of criticism first before suggesting people to go to primary school first.


You people started abusing him personally calling different names.
He had no intention to attack anybody personally as far as my concern.

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## Michael Corleone

stop fighting for gods sake!

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> stop fighting for gods sake!



It's the Bengali way to bicker like little school girls.

Please stop.

Back to BAF, does anybody know how many CJ-6 are in service?

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## The Ronin

polanski said:


> Does Myanmar have any plan to buy long range MLRS to achieve striking capability at Chittagong Port of Bangladesh. If Myanmar wants to achieve maximum advantage against potential threat than the sweet spot is chittagong port knowing Bangladesh does not have any defensive capability on the ground or Bangladesh does not have any fighter jet. I think for Myanmar to have best outcome of any conflict with Bangladesh, Myanmar must maintain first strike capability towards Chittagong port. A300 MLRS or Polonez MLRS.
> 
> What you guys think?





polanski said:


> What do you mean by "we love u"? I am an American. Do you love America? May not be... Maybe you love China.
> 
> BTW Bangladesh military is just UN peacekeeping police. No more than this.
> 
> Myanmar will have upper hand, I guess so.





polanski said:


> I work in a Industry that relates to military. I travel in South East Asia. I read lot of story about shitty Rohingya. Whether I wish a war or not, it may happen. It didn't happen because Bangladesh military is a disaster relief agency and a police force.
> Being an atheist, I never liked people with four wives.
> An well prepared military always win the war if they have the right tools of the trade. Myanmar has few right tools. Need more right tools. Myanmar is also battle hardened, that brings positive and negative both.
> Right now Myanmar needs long range bombers. Since you can't go west, your best bet is Su-34 or H-6K. You also need long range MLRS to achieve striking capability on enemies vital infrastructure i.e. Chittagong port, airport, power station and bridges.
> Those who believe in four wives, they will loose very soon.





polanski said:


> Guys Look at your neighbor is crashing thier aircraft left right center
> 
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/
> 
> Please don't keep water in your mouth, you will guarantee spit out...





polanski said:


> Be very aware that UN peacekeeping mission screwed Bangladesh military. Now Bangladesh military does want to serve the country instead go UN mission to make money.
> Myanmar military is advancing toward a better military in Southeast Asia. Keep the momentum and pace. MAF is well advanced than BAF. The moment you sent fighter pilot to peacekeeping mission, they forget flying aircraft. This is why Bangladesh crashed so many aircrafts.



https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/bangladesh-military-as-inept-as-it-is-corrupt/

@Michael Corleone @Avicenna tell Al-Haguni, Al-Beguni, Al-Buduni, Al-Chiruni aka @polanski and his hardcore fan @TopCat to do that. Now i understand why suddenly @TopCat pops up and start defending that jerk. Dear @TopCat do these threads look like criticism to you now?? Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh.

Al-Beruni is exposed now!! Caught red handed!!

@The Eagle @waz @WebMaster sorry for bothering you again. Notice these garbage threads above written by @polanski in Myanmar Defense Forum. Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh. Check those two links. He opened his own website in word press and trying so hard to belittle Bangladesh Military. I am 100% This @polanski is actually a Bangladeshi original account is @araberuni7. Full name is Al-Beruni. Uses pen name Ryan Smith in websites. This guy's sole job is mock, insult, belittle, write garbage about Bangladesh Military and attack whoever disagree with or have different. He started using fake ID when he called Plane Spotters liar and stupid for C-1360J procurement news but proved wrong miserably. Plz ban this guy and block his IP address permanently so this fake-fraud cannot pollute this forum again.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/bangladesh-military-as-inept-as-it-is-corrupt/
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Avicenna tell Al-Haguni, Al-Beguni, Al-Buduni, Al-Chiruni aka @polanski and his hardcore fan @TopCat to do that. Now i understand why suddenly @TopCat pops up and start defending that jerk. Dear @TopCat do these threads look like criticism to you now?? Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh.
> 
> Al-Beruni is exposed now!! Caught red handed!!
> 
> @The Eagle @waz @WebMaster sorry for bothering you again. Notice these garbage threads above written by @polanski in Myanmar Defense Forum. Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh. Check those two links. He opened his own website in word press and trying so hard to belittle Bangladesh Military. I am 100% This @polanski is actually a Bangladeshi original account is @araberuni7. Full name is Al-Beruni. Uses pen name Ryan Smith in websites. This guy's sole job is mock, insult, belittle, write garbage about Bangladesh Military and attack whoever disagree with or have different. He started using fake ID when he called Plane Spotters liar and stupid for C-1360J procurement news but proved wrong miserably. Plz ban this guy and block his IP address permanently so this fake-fraud cannot pollute this forum again.



LOL I will say some of the articles in that word press website are like ones written by Al-Beruni in the past.

Like verbatim.

Anyways, stop crying to the mods. Either ignore him. Or keep your posts limited to the BAF.

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## UKBengali

wanglaokan said:


> now they are considering MIG35 or SU 30.
> 
> the current rohongyas incident might change their minds.
> 
> they dont think of procuring JF 17 at the first begining although both Pakistan and China enthusiastically promoted it. they dont like indial, and dont trust Pakistan either.




I am pretty much 100% confident that a version of J-10 will be coming to BD in the next 1-2 years.
Mig-35 I am not so sure but the SU-30 is also almost guaranteed.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/bangladesh-military-as-inept-as-it-is-corrupt/
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Avicenna tell Al-Haguni, Al-Beguni, Al-Buduni, Al-Chiruni aka @polanski and his hardcore fan @TopCat to do that. Now i understand why suddenly @TopCat pops up and start defending that jerk. Dear @TopCat do these threads look like criticism to you now?? Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh.
> 
> Al-Beruni is exposed now!! Caught red handed!!
> 
> @The Eagle @waz @WebMaster sorry for bothering you again. Notice these garbage threads above written by @polanski in Myanmar Defense Forum. Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh. Check those two links. He opened his own website in word press and trying so hard to belittle Bangladesh Military. I am 100% This @polanski is actually a Bangladeshi original account is @araberuni7. Full name is Al-Beruni. Uses pen name Ryan Smith in websites. This guy's sole job is mock, insult, belittle, write garbage about Bangladesh Military and attack whoever disagree with or have different. He started using fake ID when he called Plane Spotters liar and stupid for C-1360J procurement news but proved wrong miserably. Plz ban this guy and block his IP address permanently so this fake-fraud cannot pollute this forum again.


or account ke ignore list e add koren.... that's all



UKBengali said:


> I am pretty much 100% confident that a version of J-10 will be coming to BD in the next 1-2 years.
> Mig-35 I am not so sure but the SU-30 is also almost guaranteed.


i would only j-10 is a fighter that you can expect to see....
others are all up in the bum.... not confirmed yet


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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/bangladesh-military-as-inept-as-it-is-corrupt/
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Avicenna tell Al-Haguni, Al-Beguni, Al-Buduni, Al-Chiruni aka @polanski and his hardcore fan @TopCat to do that. Now i understand why suddenly @TopCat pops up and start defending that jerk. Dear @TopCat do these threads look like criticism to you now?? Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh.
> 
> Al-Beruni is exposed now!! Caught red handed!!
> 
> @The Eagle @waz @WebMaster sorry for bothering you again. Notice these garbage threads above written by @polanski in Myanmar Defense Forum. Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh. Check those two links. He opened his own website in word press and trying so hard to belittle Bangladesh Military. I am 100% This @polanski is actually a Bangladeshi original account is @araberuni7. Full name is Al-Beruni. Uses pen name Ryan Smith in websites. This guy's sole job is mock, insult, belittle, write garbage about Bangladesh Military and attack whoever disagree with or have different. He started using fake ID when he called Plane Spotters liar and stupid for C-1360J procurement news but proved wrong miserably. Plz ban this guy and block his IP address permanently so this fake-fraud cannot pollute this forum again.


Good work Ronin. See I have been telling this for weeks now. The opinions and patterns of grammatical deficiencies of @araberuni7 and @polanski are identical.
https://defence.pk/pdf/search/13557938/

For example, he will write, "given by Russian to BD." to mean "given by the Russians to BD".

I could easily tell as i have read Al-Beruni's posts on multiple platforms over the years.

I couldn't care less if he did not disparage BD daily while pretending to be American and siding with known trolls.

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 491165
> 
> 
> Bangladesh airforce is on the verge to order 8 mil mi-35M helicopter gunships from russia..
> 
> pic credit-DTB


I have a photo of myself standing in front of Saab GlobalEye that doesn't mean I bought Saab GlobalEye. 
Stop posting rumors. Post it when deal is finalized. 
Dude, have some self-respect and dignity then people will respect you.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/bangladesh-military-as-inept-as-it-is-corrupt/
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Avicenna tell Al-Haguni, Al-Beguni, Al-Buduni, Al-Chiruni aka @polanski and his hardcore fan @TopCat to do that. Now i understand why suddenly @TopCat pops up and start defending that jerk. Dear @TopCat do these threads look like criticism to you now?? Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh.
> 
> Al-Beruni is exposed now!! Caught red handed!!
> 
> @The Eagle @waz @WebMaster sorry for bothering you again. Notice these garbage threads above written by @polanski in Myanmar Defense Forum. Look how he is wishing war between Myanmar and Bangladesh. Check those two links. He opened his own website in word press and trying so hard to belittle Bangladesh Military. I am 100% This @polanski is actually a Bangladeshi original account is @araberuni7. Full name is Al-Beruni. Uses pen name Ryan Smith in websites. This guy's sole job is mock, insult, belittle, write garbage about Bangladesh Military and attack whoever disagree with or have different. He started using fake ID when he called Plane Spotters liar and stupid for C-1360J procurement news but proved wrong miserably. Plz ban this guy and block his IP address permanently so this fake-fraud cannot pollute this forum again.



Ajaira akamer kam korar ato time pai kemney? On welfare and dole like that retard? Amazing.....

One who bad mouths and hates their own country this much should renounce their own citizenship...



The Ronin said:


> "ইদুনে"ও হইতে পারে, ঐ ব্যাটা অনেকদিন হইছে কিছু বলে না।





ইদুনি , আল হাগুণী, আল চিরুণী , এর তো নামের অভাব নাই! একই অঙ্গে এতো রূপ !

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## polanski

Bilal9 said:


> Ajaira akamer kam korar ato time pai kemney? On welfare and dole like that retard? Amazing.....
> 
> One who bad mouths and hates their own country this much should renounce their own citizenship...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ইদুনি , আল হাগুণী, আল চিরুণী , এর তো নামের অভাব নাই! একই অঙ্গে এতো রূপ !


@waz @WebMaster 
Who's detailing the thread now? Who's insulting now. Isn't it a insult? Please apply your rules equally.

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## Bilal9

polanski said:


> @waz @WebMaster
> Who's detailing the thread now? Who's insulting now. Isn't it a insult? Please apply your rules equally.



No where in that post did I even mention your name. What are you talking about ?

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## ghost250

polanski said:


> I have a photo of myself standing in front of Saab GlobalEye that doesn't mean I bought Saab GlobalEye.
> Stop posting rumors. Post it when deal is finalized.
> Dude, have some self-respect and dignity then people will respect you.


self respect and dignity??!!!!.. u r saying it??!!!...lolzzz..
nd "plane spotters bangladesh" alrdy confirmed this rumors/news...they r more aunthetic thn ur shitty wordpress website..wanna cry again???dorja bondho kore kado..

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> self respect and dignity??!!!!.. u r saying it??!!!...lolzzz..
> nd "plane spotters bangladesh" alrdy confirmed this rumors/news...they r more aunthetic thn ur shitty wordpress website..wanna cry again???dorja bondho kore kado..



You started to blame everything on me including poverty of Bangladesh where I never lived and never will. Someone wrote wordpress to help you understand your deficiencies and learn from there. Instead of bashing all other members, self-reflect on what went wrong with your country and military and improve so that people stop laughing at you. Country like Bangladesh and Iran can switch off internet but there are people seating next to you will disclose everything to internet without you being realized. 
If you think propaganda will save your country then you will be in deep shocked. For example: Argentine Air Force sunk British destroyer which lead to the evolution of stealth ships. 
MAF JF-17 will be armed with anti-radiation and long range anti-ship missile. Thanks to Pakistan and your friend, China. 

Without concentrating on defense forum, contrate what will happen to you? MA is also procuring SY-400. MA and MAF doesn't spread propaganda. They just buy and publish in the news. 
Indian is also upgrading bases in Andamar island which will block your submarine's mobility. 
People will genuinely praise you if you are sincere on your efforts.

Have you ever thought, you are discussing fishy news in Pakistani defense forum and Pakistan is supplying real arms to Myanmar. Where do you stand? 

Stop thinking about me, I have unlimited broadband internet to burn...

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## The Ronin

polanski said:


> @waz @WebMaster
> Who's detailing the thread now? Who's insulting now. Isn't it a insult? Please apply your rules equally.



Awwww Bangladeshi false flagger @araberuni7 aka Ryan Smith cries for justice when wanker himself sides with trolls and vomit garbage about Bangladesh military everywhere. Serves you right!! Go crawl back to your gutter and come back with your real ID to bark here you spineless creature. Your cover is blown up already.



polanski said:


> I have a photo of myself standing in front of Saab GlobalEye that doesn't mean I bought Saab GlobalEye.
> Stop posting rumors. Post it when deal is finalized.
> Dude, have some self-respect and dignity then people will respect you.



At least we don't have sole purpose of insulting BD military here with trash talk. The fascist GOB doesn't run this forum. We can post whatever we want. We don't troll or insult others like you do without any provocation. Bugger off if you don't like and stay quite. Didn't Plane Spotter and C-130J news slap you hard enough??!! Remember?? No money no honey?? Now you came back to challenge Plan Spotters again??? Tor baper ki amra eikhane ki post kori ba na kori kulangarer baccha?? Tor eto jole kn Bangladesh niya all time??



polanski said:


> Dude, have some self-respect and dignity then people will respect you.



Stop lecturing others about respect and dignity when you don't have those in the first place!! Worm!!



polanski said:


> Instead of bashing



Woohoo look who is talking!!



polanski said:


> MAF doesn't spread propaganda. They just buy and publish in the news.



Can anybody answer to false flagger @polanski aka @araberuni7 aka Ryan Smith that how many years we have been listening about Burmese navy destroyer and submarine procurement?? Where's their destroyer and Kilo class sub?? 










polanski said:


> MAF JF-17 will be armed with anti-radiation and long range anti-ship missile.



Looks like this false flagger doesn't know that we are also upgrading our Mig-29 to carry Kh-35

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2371.pdf



Homo Sapiens said:


> @shourov323 @The Ronin check out his posts in 120 and 121 pages.He is advocating myanmar should buy long range MLRS and strike Chittagong port, destroy vital infrastructures.Assuring myanmar that they can easily defeat ''the people with four wives''
> 
> I have never seen any native english speaking American write this shitty English.
> @shourov323 @The Ronin look at this American.





shourov323 said:


> he is a false flagger,bro...myanmarese posters nd indian trolls r more sensible thn this al haguni guy..have u forgotten that how this charal claimed that we have no towed artillery guns..he also claimed that we dont have money to buy c-130j's..how pathetic can a man be....defaming his own country..



What can you say, he is a decedent of Mir Jafor whose head is filled with cow dung. Even Mir Jafor would feel shame to talk trash like him if he was alive. Isn't there any rules to kick out this guy permanently?? What's the rules here for using multiple fake ID to talk trash here?? Shouldn't admin and mods kick him out permanently?? 

Why don't DB Police track down and arrest this guy instead of Shahidul Alam and gift him some DIM THERAPY!! 



polanski said:


> I have a photo of myself standing in front of Saab GlobalEye that doesn't mean I bought Saab GlobalEye.
> Stop posting rumors. Post it when deal is finalized.



One other thing. That Mi-35 photo is from training session. Why don't you ask Erick Rostovspotter who took the photo to fill your fat head with some info.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Someone wrote wordpress to help you understand your deficiencies and learn from there.


with crashed iraqi mig 29 in the collage with the article ridiculing bangladesh's crash rate... tough reliable source....fml



The Ronin said:


> Ryan Smith


i mean the name gives it out that it's a fake alias

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Ask Sibghat and others. It's Al Beruni's pen-name.


you're Syed aren't you?


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> NO WAY!!!


cheers:


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> you're Syed aren't you?



No I am Syed.

BAF buying refurbished B-2 spirits after the election
MAF with 31 Fulcrums are somehow inferior
Army chief buying BMW 7 series is perfectly reasonable while troops patrol CHT without BPVs on.


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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> Can anybody answer to false flagger @polanski aka @araberuni7 aka Ryan Smith that how many years we have been listening about Burmese navy destroyer and submarine procurement?? Where's their destroyer and Kilo class sub??


LOL 
that one is made by a fan for Apirl Fool. later he explained about it and all Myanmars know that.  but we are now constructing 8 war ships in Navy yard at once and one 135m frigate with approximately 4000 ton is also included in that list of war ships under constrcution which was presented to commander in chief at the meeting. 





regarding with subs , dont worry. stay tune..!! we will denounce very soon. the negotiation is now in final stage. 
training programme was already started in India since last year.











The Ronin said:


> Looks like this false flagger doesn't know that we are also upgrading our Mig-29 to carry Kh-35
> 
> http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2371.pdf


i dont see anything about Kh-35 in that link. as far as i know, Mig-29SM can carry 2 x Kh-31A not Kh-35. only advanced version like Mig-29M/M2/K can carry Kh-35. 
even if so, we are already upgraded 10 out of 31 Mig-29B to SM standard so far and more will be upgraded at the end of this year. 


The Ronin said:


> One other thing. That Mi-35 photo is from training session. Why don't you ask Erick Rostovspotter who took the photo to fill your fat head with some info.


can u show me that link. ?

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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> I know that was fan made but some of your Burmese buddies still bragged about building destroyer a lot, talked about a different design. Good luck with your future frigate project.


ok. In this forum ? i didnot see that photo here in this forum . may be u mixed up with what u see in FB. sometimes some people in FB used that pic to prove their claim in the argument. although they know it it's fake. but people in here dont use that one and avoid that kind of argument. if i missed, let me know.



The Ronin said:


> Wait didn't your officers train in Pakistan??


Once pak offered their old subs to MN a decade ago and the deal was close to finalize. but we failed to finish it. perhaps , due to political reason like sanction. now India offered us again for kilo class.
the deal can take time as we're considering to take soft loan from Russia or third countries. FYI ,














these photos appeared from our commander in chief's Russia trip. during his trip, he also visited Russia airbase and tried the Su-30 simulator by himself. later we can finalize the Su-30 deal. hope kilo class deal to be like that.



The Ronin said:


> You mean the photo??


sure.I also saw many photos of Erick Rostovspotter. Normally he dont put silly caption something like "photos from training".just with simple label like Russia Airforce. just wonder if u have the link that he is referring to "the photos of training programme". let me know.

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## The Ronin

Yak -130 aircraft of Bangladesh Air Force!!

And carrying two of unguided free fall bomb! !


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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> Seriously??!! Isn't it obvious from our officer's dress-up???


yes. seriously..!! 
I'm not trying to ruin ur dream. just curious.!! there is no proof of training programme in that pic. i'm asking the fact, not a make-up stories. if it's hard to find out, let be it. 
check this photo , we flied MiG-35 since long time ago. 




it's doesnt mean we're getting Mig-35. need the second source to comfirm this. now i'm asking u the secondary source which can prove ur claim.

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## The Ronin

Army sorted out Mi-35 and Mi-28 according to Plane Spotters. So either one of them is expected. @Aung Zaya you have a point. DTB could be wrong. Why don't you try prove them wrong. You can ask himself here.


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> Army sorted out Mi-35 and Mi-28 according to Plane Spotters. So either one of them is expected. @Aung Zaya you have a point. DTB could be wrong. Why don't you try prove them wrong. You can ask himself here.
> 
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


ok.yes. i want this. thank u. all the best guy.  
but it say test flight , not training.

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## The Ronin

Aung Zaya said:


> but it say test flight , not training.



Maybe DTB exaggerated it.

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## tarpitz

Aung Zaya said:


> LOL
> that one is made by a fan for Apirl Fool. later he explained about it and all Myanmars know that. [emoji14] but we are now constructing 8 war ships in Navy yard at once and one 135m frigate with approximately 4000 ton is also included in that list of war ships under constrcution which was presented to commander in chief at the meeting.
> View attachment 491412
> 
> 
> regarding with subs , dont worry. stay tune..!! we will denounce very soon. the negotiation is now in final stage.
> training programme was already started in India since last year.
> 
> View attachment 491414
> 
> View attachment 491415
> 
> 
> i dont see anything about Kh-35 in that link. as far as i know, Mig-29SM can carry 2 x Kh-31A not Kh-35. only advanced version like Mig-29M/M2/K can carry Kh-35.
> even if so, we are already upgraded 10 out of 31 Mig-29B to SM standard so far and more will be upgraded at the end of this year.
> 
> can u show me that link. ?


@Aung Zaya 
As far as I know MAF MiG 29 will not be carring Kh series anti ship missiles.
Newly arrived JF 17 blk 2 with C 802 AKG are dedicated for the maritime strike. That is why thry are based at Pathein.

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## Aung Zaya

tarpitz said:


> @Aung Zaya
> As far as I know MAF MiG 29 will not be carring Kh series anti ship missiles.
> Newly arrived JF 17 blk 2 with C 802 AKG are dedicated for the maritime strike. That is why thry are based at Pathein.


according to user's maunal, every MiG-29SM can carry couple of kh-31 AshM and so do our Mig-29SMs. My guess is frontline attacker for maritime strike would be JF-17 with C-802AKG which is more advanced and MiG-29SM with Kh-31 would take secondry role. whether buying kh-31 or not is navy cheif decision.it's nothing wrong even if they invest all on C-802AKG instead of old-school Kh-31A like u said.

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## Homo Sapiens



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## Destranator

Aung Zaya said:


> according to user's maunal, every MiG-29SM can carry couple of kh-31 AshM and so do our Mig-29SMs. My guess is frontline attacker for maritime strike would be JF-17 with C-802AKG which is more advanced and MiG-29SM with Kh-31 would take secondry role. whether buying kh-31 or not is navy cheif decision.it's nothing wrong even if they invest all on C-802AKG instead of old-school Kh-31A like u said.



I think with Su-30s being inducted as offensive platforms, you guys can dedicate MiG-29s to air defence and let the JF-17s take care of maritime strike.

31 upgraded Fulcrums should be able to prevent the enemy from achieving complete air superiority to the enemy minimising the prospect of complete obliteration of your KPIs by bombardment.

Yak-130s should be sufficient for COIN.

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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> according to user's maunal, every MiG-29SM can carry couple of kh-31 AshM and so do our Mig-29SMs. My guess is frontline attacker for maritime strike would be JF-17 with C-802AKG which is more advanced and MiG-29SM with Kh-31 would take secondry role. whether buying kh-31 or not is navy cheif decision.it's nothing wrong even if they invest all on C-802AKG instead of old-school Kh-31A like u said.


What variants of mig29 do you have in our air force in numbers please! 
Also how many are retired if any!?



Al-Ansar said:


> I think with Su-30s being inducted as offensive platforms, you guys can dedicate MiG-29s to air defence and let the JF-17s take care of maritime strike.
> 
> 31 upgraded Fulcrums should be able to prevent the enemy from achieving complete air superiority to the enemy minimising the prospect of complete obliteration of your KPIs by bombardment.
> 
> Yak-130s should be sufficient for COIN.


Idk how any of that adds up... mig 29 of theirs still has to play air superiority role with the f7s as interceptors or primary role aircrafts... sukhoi most likely for maritime strike with possibly multi role or superiority missions as required


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## Aung Zaya

Al-Ansar said:


> I think with Su-30s being inducted as offensive platforms, you guys can dedicate MiG-29s to air defence and let the JF-17s take care of maritime strike.
> 
> 31 upgraded Fulcrums should be able to prevent the enemy from achieving complete air superiority to the enemy minimising the prospect of complete obliteration of your KPIs by bombardment.
> 
> Yak-130s should be sufficient for COIN.



good choice. yes. our AF's strategy is like that. 
ok. too much off topic here. 
u re welcome to Myanmar defence forum under China and far east if u want to discuss related with our armed force. 


Michael Corleone said:


> What variants of mig29 do you have in* our* air force in numbers please!
> Also how many are retired if any!?


u mean our inventory ? 
Official number is 31 now although we have evidence of up to 36 in tail number. the next batch of our MiG-29 have kicked off overhaul and upgrade programme in Myanmar. seem 4 out of 10 were completed as we can see in recent photos in which Russian pilots are testing them. if u want to see , check Myanmar defence forum. so there is no plan to give retire them till next decade. even if so , at most 4 or 5 from earliest batch.

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## polanski

Homo Sapiens said:


>



Your name "Homo" for a reason off course. Another blame! When do you guys blame yourself not others? 

Few weeks ago, one of your Bangladeshi mate said that government let air force deal with new procurement. Government did not want to involve with procurement. 
This week you changed your story. 

What I like about other regional air force that they don't change stories. India, Pakistan, Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia do not change story. 

Next excuse would be Sheikh Hasina has menopause so BAF can't buy fighter jet. 

Look at MAF, Suu Kyi also had menopause but they bought JF-17 Block II. 

Bangladeshi bandit posted a video, watch out Myanmar.... 

I would say watch out Bangladesh, JF-17 is capable of carrying anti-radiation missiles that can knock out your radar stations. 

@tarpitz @Aung Zaya

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## ghost250

polanski said:


> Your name "Homo" for a reason off course. Another blame! When do you guys blame yourself not others?
> 
> Few weeks ago, one of your Bangladeshi mate said that government let air force deal with new procurement. Government did not want to involve with procurement.
> This week you changed your story.
> 
> What I like about other regional air force that they don't change stories. India, Pakistan, Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia do not change story.
> 
> Next excuse would be Sheikh Hasina has menopause so BAF can't buy fighter jet.
> 
> Look at MAF, Suu Kyi also had menopause but they bought JF-17 Block II.
> 
> Bangladeshi bandit posted a video, watch out Myanmar....
> 
> I would say watch out Bangladesh, JF-17 is capable of carrying anti-radiation missiles that can knock out your radar stations.
> 
> @tarpitz @Aung Zaya


Khankir pola,tor lojja shorom hoibo na jiboneo..

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> Khankir pola,tor lojja shorom hoibo na jiboneo..


When you lost your language you post in Bangladeshi language. Calm down..
I will have a Champaign toast! More is coming from other side of border. India will send four million Asami to Bangladesh. More donations from USA and EU, I am guessing.


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## Destranator

polanski said:


> When you lost your language you post in Bangladeshi language. Calm down..
> I will have a Champaign toast! More is coming from other side of border. India will send four million Asami to Bangladesh. More donations from USA and EU, I am guessing.



An "American" who claims to have nothing to do with BD, is posting about so-called Bangladeshis in the Indian state of Assam and that too in broken English.

He is also triggered by Bengali youtube videos.

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## The Ronin

Composite shot












BAF Yak-130 flying

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Champaign


Can’t spell champagne though xD

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Your name "Homo" for a reason off course. Another blame! When do you guys blame yourself not others?
> 
> Few weeks ago, one of your Bangladeshi mate said that government let air force deal with new procurement. Government did not want to involve with procurement.
> This week you changed your story.
> 
> What I like about other regional air force that they don't change stories. India, Pakistan, Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia do not change story.
> 
> Next excuse would be Sheikh Hasina has menopause so BAF can't buy fighter jet.
> 
> Look at MAF, Suu Kyi also had menopause but they bought JF-17 Block II.
> 
> Bangladeshi bandit posted a video, watch out Myanmar....
> 
> I would say watch out Bangladesh, JF-17 is capable of carrying anti-radiation missiles that can knock out your radar stations.
> 
> @tarpitz @Aung Zaya



Please stop posting.

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## Bilal9

Al-Ansar said:


> I think with Su-30s being inducted as offensive platforms, you guys can dedicate MiG-29s to air defence and let the JF-17s take care of maritime strike.
> 
> 31 upgraded Fulcrums should be able to prevent the enemy from achieving complete air superiority to the enemy minimising the prospect of complete obliteration of your KPIs by bombardment.
> 
> Yak-130s should be sufficient for COIN.



To be honest - even L-39's can be easily modified to fit COIN roles effectively. K-8's will need gun pods and rocket pods. Guided missiles are overkill and expensive for COIN role.


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## UKBengali

When did this become a MAF thread?

BD is far richer than Myanmar(3.5x GDP) and is just starting a huge military upgrade programme to be completed by 2030. It's military modernisation will be done in conjunction with economic and social development.
Unlike it's neighbours BD does not leave it's people hungry while it buys bullets.


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## Bilal9

Al-Ansar said:


> An "American" who claims to have nothing to do with BD, is posting about so-called Bangladeshis in the Indian state of Assam and that too in broken English.
> 
> He is also triggered by Bengali youtube videos.



Ei beqoof Bangladeshi na, American to na-ee. I can bet money on this...probably some Sanghi troll again. Damn cockroaches are everywhere these days. Put them on the 'ignore' list. Quickest way not to waste time on these idiots. All they do is derail threads and now a sticky thread. In reality that is all they CAN do. 

Report him to the mods. Case closed.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> To be honest - even L-39's can be easily modified to fit COIN roles effectively. K-8's will need gun pods and rocket pods. Guided missiles are overkill and expensive for COIN role.



sorry brother.... couldn't understand which insurgency we're talking about here...


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## Bilal9

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> sorry brother.... couldn't understand which insurgency we're talking about here...



There is no insurgency to speak of at the present time. But Hill tracts can become insurgency hotbed as seen before. There are destabilizing elements outside our country who want this of course. Insurgencies can be dealt with very effectively by air platform led COIN ops assisting ground operations (as evidenced in Vietnam).

Granted we don't have neither resources nor training of the US Marines, and the Shanti Bahini does not compare to the North Vietnamese either...


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## The Ronin

Aerial view of "Motijheel" commercial area from the B.A.F aircraft. Motijheel, Dhaka. Early (1980s)

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Aerial view of "Motijheel" commercial area from the B.A.F aircraft. Motijheel, Dhaka. Early (1980s)



Do you have any F-6 photos from that era?


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Do you have any F-6 photos from that era?

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## The Ronin

Very rare one

BAF Antonov An-26 in 1973. The picture was taken after delivery with Soviet pilots. BAF had 6xAntonov An-26 in their inventory. All of those were retired in 1996-97

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Very rare one
> 
> BAF Antonov An-26 in 1973. The picture was taken after delivery with Soviet pilots. BAF had 6xAntonov An-26 in their inventory. All of those were retired in 1996-97



BD airforce had a great start at the beginning but It could not keep up as it failed to align itself strategically in later years.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> BD airforce had a great start at the beginning but It could not keep up as it failed to align itself strategically in later years.



BAF was fine till the BNP morons got into power in 2002.

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## Abdul_Jalil

Can anyone tell me which features are add in our upgraded MiG-29 and F-7bgi? such as arms, radar, engine etc.


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## Avicenna

Green Soldier said:


> Can anyone tell me which features are add in our upgraded MiG-29 and F-7bgi? such as arms, radar, engine etc.



Ejection seats.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Ejection seats.


I'd like BAF to test out the ejection seats in all of their F-7s mid-flight to make sure they are in working order. This would also go a long way in assisting the modernisation process.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Aerial view of "Motijheel" commercial area from the B.A.F aircraft. Motijheel, Dhaka. Early (1980s)


wow motijheel looks hella organised .... less congested too i suppose?



UKBengali said:


> BAF was fine till the BNP morons got into power in 2002.


no one talks about this.... everyone whines how hasina fails to buy anything



Al-Ansar said:


> I'd like BAF to test out the ejection seats in all of their F-7s mid-flight to make sure they are in working order. This would also go a long way in assisting the modernisation process.


so you want 30 million dollars in the drain? cool!

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## bluesky

UKBengali said:


> BAF was fine till the BNP morons got into power in 2002.


You are right on the BNP morons. But, what your BAL morons have done during its almost ten years in power? Nothing at all. The Burmese did not dare to expel the Rohingyas when BNP was in power. But, Burma is kicking BAL *** every now and then because its psychologists have analyzed the weak character of Hasia the talking machine.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal9 said:


> There is no insurgency to speak of at the present time. But Hill tracts can become insurgency hotbed as seen before. There are destabilizing elements outside our country who want this of course. Insurgencies can be dealt with very effectively by air platform led COIN ops assisting ground operations (as evidenced in Vietnam).
> 
> Granted we don't have neither resources nor training of the US Marines, and the Shanti Bahini does not compare to the North Vietnamese either...



well, an insurgency is best handled with intelligence, not the military.... this is fully possible, as such movements can't go ahead without outside interference.... investing your money behind a probable insurgency will only divert resources from powerful platforms that might have scared the **** out of competition.....


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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> There is no insurgency to speak of at the present time. But Hill tracts can become insurgency hotbed as seen before. There are destabilizing elements outside our country who want this of course. Insurgencies can be dealt with very effectively by air platform led COIN ops assisting ground operations (as evidenced in Vietnam).
> 
> Granted we don't have neither resources nor training of the US Marines, and the Shanti Bahini does not compare to the North Vietnamese either...


Hill people are now well integrated. I dont think there will be any insurgency in foreseable future


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## The Ronin

Yet 18 people were killed in last 5 months, heard 7 were killed today in news report. Unless military eradicate UPDF and other terrorist group completely this will keep going on. The upcoming UCAV can be helpful for this work i guess.


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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> Hill people are now well integrated. I dont think there will be any insurgency in foreseable future



Well you're right.

Certainly the insurgency if any will not be created from WITHIN the native element of the hill tribes who are mostly peace loving simple people.

The problem (if any, in the future) will certainly come from elements external to Bangladesh in India and Burma, whether state-sponsored or not. That is where our focus should be, intelligence-wise and resource-utilization-wise, to PREVENT insurgencies ahead of time before they become huge headaches.

This intelligence will be much easier to gain using UCAVs as @The Ronin bhai has stated above.

At the same time, we should,

a) Re-populate these extreme remote-border areas (Dighinala in Khagrachhori for example) with people from other over-crowded areas in Bangladesh with agricultural incentives and cheap loans, and,

b) Ensure that harmony and positive fellow-feeling is cultivated among different ethnic groups to avoid confrontation and clashes.

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## Michael Corleone

__ https://www.facebook.com/





amateur movie makers video.... better than BTV camera crew imo

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amateur movie makers video.... better than BTV camera crew imo



I agree, well shot and nice angles/editing.

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## The Ronin

The man is holding the patch of 1400+ flying hour in F-7BG

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## LKJ86



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## Bengal Tiger 71

BAF procuring Fighter jet from China sources BDMilitary.com. Anyone have the trusted information about this issue?


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## Avicenna

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BAF procuring Fighter jet from China sources BDMilitary.com. Anyone have the trusted information about this issue?



LOL. Not again....

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## Michael Corleone

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BAF procuring Fighter jet from China sources BDMilitary.com. Anyone have the trusted information about this issue?


Dude is it difficult to go back a few pages and read up to date!?


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## khanasifm

So far rumour r baf is inducting su-30, mig-29/35 , j-10 ... did I miss any ? Till Jane’s or an OEM /baf announce anything firm order it just here say unless I missed it


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## Michael Corleone

এয়ার মার্শাল মশিউজ্জামান সেরনিয়াবাত এর কাছ থেকে ৫৮ নং ফ্লাইট সেফটি কোর্সের সর্বোচ্চ পারফরমেন্সের ট্রফি নিচ্ছেন পাকিস্তান এয়ারফোর্সের স্কোয়াড্রন লিডার কাসিফ সাইফ।

ভারত,পাকিস্হান,আমেরিকা সহ বিশ্বের অনেক দেশের অফিসার ক্যডেটরাই বাংলাদেশে প্রয়োজনীয় মিলিটারি ট্রেনিং গ্রহণের জন্যে আসেন।

Pakistan Air Force Squadron Leader Kasf Saif is taking the highest performance trophy of 58 Flight Safety Course from former Air Marshal Moshiuzzaman Serniabat. Officers of many countries including India, Pakistan, Americn, came to receive necessary military training in Bangladesh.


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## Anubis

khanasifm said:


> So far rumour r baf is inducting su-30, mig-29/35 , j-10 ... did I miss any ? Till Jane’s or an OEM /baf announce anything firm order it just here say unless I missed it


You missed EFT and Gripen...both have been reported at different times...keep naming all the fighters eventually BAF is going to pick one of them and we can claim to be right.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Anubis said:


> You missed EFT and Gripen...both have been reported at different times...keep naming all the fighters eventually BAF is going to pick one of them and we can claim to be right.


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## polanski

If the rate of crash continue then there will be no Air Force for Bangladesh. There will two Air Forces surrounding Bangladesh those are Indian and Myanmar. 

Talks are underway for India to procure F-35 after India has been excluded from CAATSA Act and withdrawal of Su-57 program.

Myanmar will have advanced Fighter Jets soon. Talks are underway with a partner nation to procure fighter jet advanced than Su-30 which Myanmar ordered. 

As far as Bangladesh concern, they will always be like the below link. 

https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/

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## Lord Of Gondor

polanski said:


> *Talks are underway for India to procure F-35* after India has been excluded from CAATSA Act and withdrawal of Su-57 program.


A lie.


> “We have not officially asked for a briefing on the F-35 nor has any request been made to the Americans,” IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa told The Indian Express.


https://indianexpress.com/article/i...ighter-jet-says-iaf-chief-b-s-dhanoa-5082304/


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> If the rate of crash continue then there will be no Air Force for Bangladesh. There will two Air Forces surrounding Bangladesh those are Indian and Myanmar.
> 
> Talks are underway for India to procure F-35 after India has been excluded from CAATSA Act and withdrawal of Su-57 program.
> 
> Myanmar will have advanced Fighter Jets soon. Talks are underway with a partner nation to procure fighter jet advanced than Su-30 which Myanmar ordered.
> 
> As far as Bangladesh concern, they will always be like the below link.
> 
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/


you're full of shit... shit!

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## Destranator

polanski said:


> If the rate of crash continue then there will be no Air Force for Bangladesh. There will two Air Forces surrounding Bangladesh those are Indian and Myanmar.
> 
> As far as Bangladesh concern, they will always be like the below link.
> 
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/



Raita-Al-Biriyani's at it at again. 

How does it concern a random "American" on what BAF would ever be?

At least learn English before pretending to be American.


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## tarpitz

polanski said:


> If the rate of crash continue then there will be no Air Force for Bangladesh. There will two Air Forces surrounding Bangladesh those are Indian and Myanmar.
> 
> Talks are underway for India to procure F-35 after India has been excluded from CAATSA Act and withdrawal of Su-57 program.
> 
> Myanmar will have advanced Fighter Jets soon. Talks are underway with a partner nation to procure fighter jet advanced than Su-30 which Myanmar ordered.
> 
> As far as Bangladesh concern, they will always be like the below link.
> 
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/


Nice Article.

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## The Ronin



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## bdslph

khanasifm said:


> So far rumour r baf is inducting su-30, mig-29/35 , j-10 ... did I miss any ? Till Jane’s or an OEM /baf announce anything firm order it just here say unless I missed it





Anubis said:


> You missed EFT and Gripen...both have been reported at different times...keep naming all the fighters eventually BAF is going to pick one of them and we can claim to be right.



waiting for the news of f22 raptor f35 b52 bomber ahahahahaa 

you also miss one F16 we will go for send hand ones lol 

for western if ever we go f16 blk 60 or blk 70 or f15x 
jas39 gripen smart fighter blok

china j10c and other 
russia su35 su30

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## Incog_nito

I feel BAF is buying J-10Cs (a twin-seat version of J-10B) & some more used upgraded Mig-29s from Russia and other operators.


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## The Ronin

The MiG-29 upgrade has been canceled.

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> The MiG-29 upgrade has been canceled.


Seems like BAF is not going for any Russian option anymore other than helis.


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## The Ronin

TopCat said:


> Seems like BAF is not going for any Russian option anymore other than helis.



Too soon to jump to that conclusion.


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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> The MiG-29 upgrade has been canceled.



I'm very happy about this.

New airplanes are on the way.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I'm very happy about this.
> 
> New airplanes are on the way.



Just speculating but BAF now seems no longer interested in Mig-35.
My guess is that J-10C and SU-30SME are coming soon.


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## LKJ86

TopCat said:


> Seems like BAF is not going for any Russian option anymore other than helis.





Avicenna said:


> I'm very happy about this.
> 
> New airplanes are on the way.


Why???


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> Why???



MiG-29 upgrade would only make sense if they planned on keeping the original aircraft but also supplemented
with a Mig-35 buy.

I don't think it would have made sense for any other scenario that didn't involve a MiG-35 buy.

Of course this is all speculation on my part, but it seems the MiG-35 ship has sailed.

I think either J-10 or Su-30 or Su-35 is on the way.


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## LKJ86

IM Ozair said:


> I feel BAF is buying J-10Cs (a twin-seat version of J-10B) & some more used upgraded Mig-29s from Russia and other operators.


J-10C is not a twin-seat version of J-10B.
J-10A/B/C are single-seat versions.
J-10S is the twin-seat version of J-10A.

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force has sought a Westernised version of the Su-30 similar in configuration to the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI.

Essentially what BAF will get in a further upgraded Su-30MKM because the RMAF Su-30 is fitted with Western avionics minus the Israeli avionics and countermeasures that are fitted on the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI.

Bangladesh and India signed a defence MoU covering joint training. As part of that MoU the Bangladesh Air Force has started sending its pilots to India for advanced courses and high G training. BAF authorities found the training in India to be cheaper and logistically less of a challenge because if courses are lasting a long time pilots can have their families there or visit more frequently compared to if they were sent to Russia for the same training.

However the deals with Russia are of bilateral nature. Russia will supply the Su-30 with configuration based upon BAF requirements. It will provide munitions, training, spares and maintenance associated with the Su-30 program.

The BAF is purchasing fighters from multiple sources due to the ground realities today where the country is balancing between the East and the West. Similar programs are carried out by Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia.

But one thing we have been confirmed by mid and high ranking officers of the BAF is that MiG-35 will not be joining the Bangladesh Air Force. We can expect one or two squadron of Su-30 with Western avionics to join the force.

#BDMilitary.com Exclusive

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force has sought a Westernised version of the Su-30 similar in configuration to the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI.
> 
> Essentially what BAF will get in a further upgraded Su-30MKM because the RMAF Su-30 is fitted with Western avionics minus the Israeli avionics and countermeasures that are fitted on the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI.
> 
> Bangladesh and India signed a defence MoU covering joint training. As part of that MoU the Bangladesh Air Force has started sending its pilots to India for advanced courses and high G training. BAF authorities found the training in India to be cheaper and logistically less of a challenge because if courses are lasting a long time pilots can have their families there or visit more frequently compared to if they were sent to Russia for the same training.
> 
> However the deals with Russia are of bilateral nature. Russia will supply the Su-30 with configuration based upon BAF requirements. It will provide munitions, training, spares and maintenance associated with the Su-30 program.
> 
> The BAF is purchasing fighters from multiple sources due to the ground realities today where the country is balancing between the East and the West. Similar programs are carried out by Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia.
> 
> But one thing we have been confirmed by mid and high ranking officers of the BAF is that MiG-35 will not be joining the Bangladesh Air Force. We can expect one or two squadron of Su-30 with Western avionics to join the force.
> 
> #BDMilitary.com Exclusive
> 
> View attachment 495994



This makes some sense.

East/West is the way to go.

The only thing is I would have hoped NO training be done in India.

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## Abdul_Jalil

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force has sought a Westernised version of the Su-30 similar in configuration to the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI.
> 
> Essentially what BAF will get in a further upgraded Su-30MKM because the RMAF Su-30 is fitted with Western avionics minus the Israeli avionics and countermeasures that are fitted on the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI.
> 
> Bangladesh and India signed a defence MoU covering joint training. As part of that MoU the Bangladesh Air Force has started sending its pilots to India for advanced courses and high G training. BAF authorities found the training in India to be cheaper and logistically less of a challenge because if courses are lasting a long time pilots can have their families there or visit more frequently compared to if they were sent to Russia for the same training.
> 
> However the deals with Russia are of bilateral nature. Russia will supply the Su-30 with configuration based upon BAF requirements. It will provide munitions, training, spares and maintenance associated with the Su-30 program.
> 
> The BAF is purchasing fighters from multiple sources due to the ground realities today where the country is balancing between the East and the West. Similar programs are carried out by Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia.
> 
> But one thing we have been confirmed by mid and high ranking officers of the BAF is that MiG-35 will not be joining the Bangladesh Air Force. We can expect one or two squadron of Su-30 with Western avionics to join the force.
> 
> #BDMilitary.com Exclusive
> 
> View attachment 495994


The Su-30 with western equipments are a good option for BAF. We should buy them with their maintains and arms production capability (with ToT). Insh-Allah These birds will give us an extraordinary air power.


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## Abdul_Jalil

The Ronin said:


>


Why bro?


----------



## Indos

Does Bangladesh ever have any interest to induct JF 17 Thunder ?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> This makes some sense.
> 
> East/West is the way to go.
> 
> The only thing is I would have hoped NO training be done in India.



I agree.

If this is true, the moron who decided this should be shot.
BAF could have chosen Malaysia instead.

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## The Ronin

Indos said:


> Does Bangladesh ever have any interest to induct JF 17 Thunder ?



had long ago, now don't need to consider that.



Abdul_Jalil said:


> Why bro?



You gotta buy certain amount of aircraft to get that and you better stop dreaming about it cause those Russian mafia won't give those. They are notorious about handing over technology these days.

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## Indos

The Ronin said:


> had long ago, now don't need to consider that.



InshaALLAH this bird will be flying in 2021, hoping Bangladesh to consider this KFX/IFX for future acquisition 







Myanmar will absolutely get the Chinese STEALTH (J 31) in the future, so you guys maybe prefer South Korean/Indonesian fighter to balance them

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## Anubis

Indos said:


> InshaALLAH this bird will be flying in 2021, hoping Bangladesh to consider this KFX/IFX for future acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar will absolutely get the Chinese STEALTH (J 31) in the future, so you guys maybe prefer South Korean/Indonesian fighter to balance them


Bangladesh will consider buying 5th gen when the world moves to 7th gen aircrafts with anti-gravity and invisibility capabilities.

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## LKJ86

Indos said:


> InshaALLAH this bird will be flying in 2021, hoping Bangladesh to consider this KFX/IFX for future acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar will absolutely get the Chinese STEALTH (J 31) in the future, so you guys maybe prefer South Korean/Indonesian fighter to balance them


Impressive...

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## Indos

Anubis said:


> Bangladesh will consider buying 5th gen when the world moves to 7th gen aircrafts with anti-gravity and invisibility capabilities.



Come on man, even poor Indonesia during 1960's can have huge air force, we dont know what will happen in the future, your economy are growing quite fast, I guess at least 2030 you guys will go STEALTH



LKJ86 said:


> Impressive...



Engine is still coming from US and AESA radar from South Korean (I hope they really can make it). Overall, inshaALLAH.

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> InshaALLAH this bird will be flying in 2021, hoping Bangladesh to consider this KFX/IFX for future acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar will absolutely get the Chinese STEALTH (J 31) in the future, so you guys maybe prefer South Korean/Indonesian fighter to balance them




For strategic and technological reasons, BAF will probably buy the Turkish TF-X being developed with the UK.

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## The Ronin

Indos said:


> InshaALLAH this bird will be flying in 2021, hoping Bangladesh to consider this KFX/IFX for future acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar will absolutely get the Chinese STEALTH (J 31) in the future, so you guys maybe prefer South Korean/Indonesian fighter to balance them


 
really would love to see some of these or TAI FX fighter in BAF but that's just a wet dream. Don't even have enough squadron of good fighters yet.



Indos said:


> Engine is still coming from US



And this is the problem. plus our AJT is suited for Su-57 only. 



UKBengali said:


> For strategic and technological reasons, BAF will probably buy the Turkish TF-X being developed with the UK.



Wet dream.

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## Anubis

The Ronin said:


> really would love to see some of these or TAI FX fighter in BAF but that's just a wet dream. Don't even have enough squadron of good fighters yet.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the problem. *plus our AJT is suited for Su-57 only.*
> 
> 
> 
> Wet dream.


I highly doubt they bought yaks with 5 gen in mind...they bought them to train for 4th gen and because they can perform ground attack...your overestimate our airforce's farsightedness.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> This makes some sense.
> 
> East/West is the way to go.
> 
> The only thing is I would have hoped NO training be done in India.


Truth be told, in today’s world... even Pakistan admits to some degree that Indians have caught up in skills and training doctrine as themselves in regards to Air Force. Most probably once everything is operational... it would be convenient to get high g training done in bd with all the necessary machineries purchased.



UKBengali said:


> I agree.
> 
> If this is true, the moron who decided this needs should be shot.
> BAF could have chosen Malaysia instead.


Malaysian sukhois have parts shortage issues due to constructing budget... they themselves trained in India.



Indos said:


> InshaALLAH this bird will be flying in 2021, hoping Bangladesh to consider this KFX/IFX for future acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Myanmar will absolutely get the Chinese STEALTH (J 31) in the future, so you guys maybe prefer South Korean/Indonesian fighter to balance them


What good is stealth when you’re carrying your loads on outer surface



Anubis said:


> I highly doubt they bought yaks with 5 gen in mind...they bought them to train for 4th gen and because they can perform ground attack...your overestimate our airforce's farsightedness.


Or nearsightedness because I don’t see them making any decisions looking far into the future.

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> What good is stealth when you’re carrying your loads on outer surface



Block 2 and 3 will be more stealth and have internal weapon bays. 



Anubis said:


> I highly doubt they bought yaks with 5 gen in mind...they bought them to train for 4th gen and because they can perform ground attack...your overestimate our airforce's farsightedness.



I didn't say that either!! Let them strengthen their air force first.


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## Indos

Michael Corleone said:


> What good is stealth when you’re carrying your loads on outer surface
> 
> .



Block 1 is not fully STEALTH, there will be block 2 and block 3 (according to the plan) which is Full Stealth. Block 2 maybe can be rolled out after 2030.

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## TopCat

Amra Khan started trolling again and our PDF fan boys started jumping.

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## Destranator

TopCat said:


> Amra Khan started trolling again and our PDF fan boys started jumping.


People here run with anything Amra khan says trying to present it as information from their own "sources".

However, no one (including Amra Khan) comes back to apologise when nothing materialises.

What happened to BAF "punishing China and Russia" by going all Western with Rafales and Typhoons? Usual brain farts of Khan baba?

What we should be discussing is the reformation of BAF as an organisation and formation of a Joint Chief of Staff's Office which would coordinate and streamline the modernisation of the three forces.

BAF is a spineless organisation at present.

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> Block 1 is not fully STEALTH, there will be block 2 and block 3 (according to the plan) which is Full Stealth. Block 2 maybe can be rolled out after 2030.



Good for Indonesia but like I say BD's 5th gen fighter will most probably be Turkish.



Al-Ansar said:


> People here run with anything Amra khan says trying to present it as information from their own "sources".
> 
> However, no one (including Amra Khan) comes back to apologise when nothing materialises.
> 
> What happened to BAF "punishing China and Russia" by going all Western with Rafales and Typhoons? Usual brain farts of Khan baba?
> 
> What we should be discussing is the reformation of BAF as an organisation and formation of a Joint Chief of Staff's Office which would coordinate and streamline the modernisation of the three forces.
> 
> BAF is a spineless organisation at present.



Dude, we all know this is speculation but the chances are good that SU-30 and J-10 will be coming to BAF.
No harm in a little discussion on this and so please relax.


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## Imran Khan

TopCat said:


> Amra Khan started trolling again and our PDF fan boys started jumping.


finally i see some light from BD members



Al-Ansar said:


> People here run with anything Amra khan says trying to present it as information from their own "sources".
> 
> However, no one (including Amra Khan) comes back to apologise when nothing materialises.
> 
> What happened to BAF "punishing China and Russia" by going all Western with Rafales and Typhoons? Usual brain farts of Khan baba?
> 
> What we should be discussing is the reformation of BAF as an organisation and formation of a Joint Chief of Staff's Office which would coordinate and streamline the modernisation of the three forces.
> 
> BAF is a spineless organisation at present.


fans want to see every fighter in country .

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Good for Indonesia but like I say BD's 5th gen fighter will most probably be Turkish.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, we all know this is speculation but the chances are good that SU-30 and J-10 will be coming to BAF.
> No harm in a little discussion on this and so please relax.



Let's get some 4+ gen planes before we talk about 5th.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Let's get some 4+ gen planes before we talk about 5th.



The topic was raised by our Indonesian friend and we are just advising him there is almost zero chance that BD will buy their fighter.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> The topic was raised by our Indonesian friend and we are just advising him there is almost zero chance that BD will buy their fighter.



Difficult to say that. It’s a joint South Korean-Indonesian project.

There is a precedent for getting South Korean sourced equipment.

Not so for Turkish ones.

If and when Bangladesh decided to go 5th gen.....say in like 20 to 30 years....

Who really knows what the criteria and circumstances will be.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Difficult to say that. It’s a joint South Korean-Indonesian project.
> 
> There is a precedent for getting South Korean sourced equipment.
> 
> Not so for Turkish ones.
> 
> If and when Bangladesh decided to go 5th gen.....say in like 20 to 30 years....
> 
> Who really knows what the criteria and circumstances will be.



Let us not make wild speculation like in 20-30 years from now.
Really retarded to get 5th gen in 2050 as by then some countries would be operating 6th gen aircraft for maybe 2 decades.

Korea simply cannot be strategically reliable enough and does not have the economies of scale of the much larger Turkish economy.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Indos said:


> Block 1 is not fully STEALTH, there will be block 2 and block 3 (according to the plan) which is Full Stealth. Block 2 maybe can be rolled out after 2030.


i'm sure once the turkish jet is out... nations like pakistan bangladesh will opt for those instead of j31 ... let's wait and see

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> i'm sure once the turkish jet is out... nations like pakistan bangladesh will opt for those instead of j31 ... let's wait and see



Pakistan will probably get both J-31 and TF-X due to it's strategic relationship with China.
J-31 should be available for export in the mid-2020s while we are looking at the early 2030s for the TF-X.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Pakistan will probably get both J-31 and TF-X due to it's strategic relationship with China.
> J-31 should be available for export in the mid-2020s while we are looking at the early 2030s for the TF-X.


pakistan would get an alternative in the form of project azm


----------



## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> pakistan would get an alternative in the form of project azm



Project AZM would mean that Pakistan still relied heavily on the Chinese.
For sure the engines, composite airframe and air-to-air missiles would have to come from China pretty much wholly.
Other areas would require different amounts of Chinese technical support.
Pakistan is showing signs of wanting to buy huge quantities of Turkish arms and the TF-X would be ideal, but this would not be available till the 2030s, which is the same timeframe for project AZM.
J-31 will be available in mid-2020s.

If India gets it's hands on a 5th gen fighter next decade, then Pakistan will get J-31 for sure.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Project AZM would mean that Pakistan still relied heavily on the Chinese.
> For sure the engines, composite airframe and air-to-air missiles would have to come from China pretty much wholly.
> Other areas would require different amounts of Chinese technical support.
> Pakistan is showing signs of wanting to buy huge quantities of Turkish arms and the TF-X would be ideal, but this would not be available till the 2030s, which is the same timeframe for project AZM.
> J-31 will be available in mid-2020s.
> 
> If India gets it's hands on a 5th gen fighter next decade, then Pakistan will get J-31 for sure.


imo... project azm will be nothing but a rebranded j-31 with some mods done for pakistan's needs


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> imo... project azm will be nothing but a rebranded j-31 with some mods done for pakistan's needs



So J-31 next decade and TF-X in the 2030s if you are right.


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> So J-31 next decade and TF-X in the 2030s if you are right.


When PAF has bought F-16 already, is there any need to buy J-10 again?


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## Anubis

UKBengali said:


> So J-31 next decade and TF-X in the 2030s if you are right.


Why would they get TFX when they'll already have J-31?


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## UKBengali

Anubis said:


> Why would they get TFX when they'll already have J-31?



Turkish plane with UK engine and design assistance.
Pakistan has already rejected Chinese arms like warships and attack helicopters in favour of Turkish products.
Reasons are due to both capability and balancing IMO.

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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> Pakistan has already rejected Chinese arms like warships



So who is buying 8 Yuan class sub and 2 Type-54A frigate then??


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## mb444

No one will be purchasing the Turkish jets for atleast three decades if not longer . First they have to build it which is going to take time. Then they have to test it which is going to take at least a decade as this is a new design and not a simple copy. After that one assumes there will be several years of operational testing by the Turkish airforce only if that is successful will there be an actual development of a production line which will first serve Turkish requirement before considering international sales. For foreign buyers no one will consider purchasing a Turkish jet until it has been in active service for atleast another decade with the Turkish airforce. 

Turkey has taken on a mammoth project and they are breaking new grounds with this project. It simply will take time to mature. It is not a feasible option for BD given our pressing needs for a jet. However It would be amazing if BD actually sought to participate in this project as a means of gaining valuable technical knowledge and acquiring access to a new generation of fighters. However we are talking of BAF the singularly most inept element of our defense forces.... so I would not hold out any hope.

Here’s to BAF aerobatics team, our future first and only line of air defense.

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> So who is buying 8 Yuan class sub and 2 Type-54A frigate then??




Dude....

China rejected Chinese Z-10 in favour of Turkish T-129.

Pakistan looks like it does not want to put all it's eggs into the Chinese basket.



mb444 said:


> No one will be purchasing the Turkish jets for atleast three decades if not longer . First they have to build it which is going to take time. Then they have to test it which is going to take at least a decade as this is a new design and not a simple copy. After that one assumes there will be several years of operational testing by the Turkish airforce only if that is successful will there be an actual development of a production line which will first serve Turkish requirement before considering international sales. For foreign buyers no one will consider purchasing a Turkish jet until it has been in active service for atleast another decade with the Turkish airforce.
> 
> Turkey has taken on a mammoth project and they are breaking new grounds with this project. It simply will take time to mature. It is not a feasible option for BD given our pressing needs for a jet. However It would be amazing if BD actually sought to participate in this project as a means of gaining valuable technical knowledge and acquiring access to a new generation of fighters. However we are talking of BAF the singularly most inept element of our defense forces.... so I would not hold out any hope.
> 
> Here’s to BAF aerobatics team, our future first and only line of air defense.





TF-X is due for first flight in 2023 and delivered to TAF by 2029. It is stated to be fully operational by 2031.

As for the risk and complexity, last I heard it will use the core of the EJ-2000 engine to produce a new engine delivering around 30% more thrust and BAe will be consultants in the design process.
With Both BAe and Rolls Royce involved there is a good chance of success and keeping to the timeline. Also we need to take into account that the Turkish defence industry is quite advanced and so they will be able to absorb a lot of the tech and be able to design and produce sub-systems like AESA radars on time and with the required quality.

You are kind of talking about the worst possible scenario here. Remember no-one ever believed that the Chinese J-20 will be in operational service in 2017 but it was. UK + Turkey are more advanced and experienced than China ever was in producing a 5th generation fighter.

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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> Dude....
> 
> China rejected Chinese Z-10 in favour of Turkish T-129.
> 
> Pakistan looks like it does not want to put all it's eggs into the Chinese basket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TF-X is due for first flight in 2023 and delivered to TAF by 2029. It is stated to be fully operational by 2031.
> 
> As for the risk and complexity, last I heard it will use the core of the EJ-2000 engine to produce a new engine delivering around 30% more thrust and BAe will be consultants in the design process.
> With Both BAe and Rolls Royce involved there is a good chance of success and keeping to the timeline. Also we need to take into account that the Turkish defence industry is quite advanced and so they will be able to absorb a lot of the tech and be able to design and produce sub-systems like AESA radars on time and with the required quality.
> 
> You are kind of talking about the worst possible scenario here. Remember no-one ever believed that the Chinese J-20 will be in operational service in 2017 but it was. UK + Turkey are more advanced and experienced than China ever was in producing a 5th generation fighter.


Pakistan never puts all it's eggs into the Chinese basket.
Pakistan has many weapons from USA, UK, France, Ukraine, and so on.
Is this a news?


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Here’s to BAF aerobatics team, our future first and only line of air defense


Well the Japanese did prevent the Australians shooting at them by performing aerobatics.

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## The Ronin

যুদ্ধবিমানের রক্ষণাবেক্ষণ আর ওভারহোলিং এর জন্য বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী এবং বঙ্গবন্ধু এরোনটিক্যাল সেন্টার (BAC) সবসময় চীনের উপর নির্ভরশীল ছিলো।

তবে সম্প্রতি বিমানবাহিনীর 214 MRO Unit সম্পুর্ণ দেশীয়ভাবে একটি পুরাতন F-7MB যুদ্ধবিমানের ওভারহোলিং সম্পন্ন করেছে কোনরকম সাহায্য ছাড়া। আজকে আনুষ্ঠানিকভাবে F-7MB (414) যুদ্ধবিমানটি বিমানবাহিনীর হাতে তুলে দেয়া হলো।

#DTB







Pilot of K-8w Intermediate Jet Training Aircraft (IJT) of BAF

© Aviadict

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## The Ronin



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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> Let us not make wild speculation like in 20-30 years from now.
> Really retarded to get 5th gen in 2050 as by then some countries would be operating 6th gen aircraft for maybe 2 decades.
> 
> Korea simply cannot be strategically reliable enough and does not have the economies of scale of the much larger Turkish economy.




Just lol at your insight

Korean economy is at least twice the size of Turkish economy, not to mention this KFX/IFX is joint development between two trillion US dollar economy Indonesia and South Korea. Meanwhile Turkey economy is in crisis and their size is just 800 billion US dollar

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## UKBengali

Marine Rouge said:


> Just lol at your insight
> 
> Korean economy is at least twice the size of Turkish economy, not to mention this KFX/IFX is joint development between two trillion US dollar economy Indonesia and South Korea. Meanwhile Turkey economy is in crisis and their size is just 800 billion US dollar



Lol at your insight.

In PPP Turkish economy is larger and growing quicker.
R&D is in PPP and the planes will only be produced post 2030 when Turkey will be fully industrialised.


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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> Lol at your insight.
> 
> In PPP Turkish economy is larger and growing quicker.
> R&D is in PPP and the planes will only be produced post 2030 when Turkey will be fully industrialised.



Lol at your insight once more

Even by ppp Indonesia is much much larger than Turkey and growing much faster. By PPP turkey and South Korea is comparable 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

And now, R and Developtment in Aeronautical in Indonesia and South Korea is much faster compared to Turkey. Money is real and the progress is real


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## LKJ86

Marine Rouge said:


> Just lol at your insight
> 
> Korean economy is at least twice the size of Turkish economy, not to mention this KFX/IFX is joint development between two trillion US dollar economy Indonesia and South Korea. Meanwhile Turkey economy is in crisis and their size is just 800 billion US dollar


Both South Korea and Turkey are lack of core technologies to develop the fifth generation fighter independently. They all rely on the help of west. The input doesn't need too much.
Although Korean economy is at least twice the size of Turkish economy, it is meaningless.


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## Nike

LKJ86 said:


> Both South Korea and Turkey are lack of core technologies to develop the fifth generation fighter independently. They all rely on the help of west. The input doesn't need too much.
> Although Korean economy is at least twice the size of Turkish economy, it is meaningless.



South Korea had more Portofolio on tech industry and software development compared to Turk, and South Korea military industry is beneficial of their military budget and military budget is important regarding military project like this one, in turn all depend on how large an economy of one country it is.

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## UKBengali

Marine Rouge said:


> Lol at your insight once more
> 
> Even by ppp Indonesia is much much larger than Turkey and growing much faster. By PPP turkey and South Korea is comparable
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
> 
> And now, R and Developtment in Aeronautical in Indonesia and South Korea is much faster compared to Turkey. Money is real and the progress is real



Lol @ trying to compare with Turkey.

Turkey has GDP per capita PPP of nearly 30,000 US dollars and growing 6-7%% a year. 
Turkey had already signed billion dollar defence contracts to sell helicopters and ships.
Korea has too small a population to compete with Turkey.

Indonesia should compare with other middle-income countries like Brazil and not a near 1st world country like Turkey.


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## blinder

Seen test flying in Italy, the next AW139 #811:

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## muhammadali233

blinder said:


> Seen test flying in Italy, the next AW139 #811:
> 
> View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


whats up with the color scheme?


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## Destranator

muhammadali233 said:


> whats up with the color scheme?


SAR helo.

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Government has approved funds for new fighter aircraft and a whole gamut of other types of aircraft and sensors.

#BD Military.


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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Government has approved funds for new fighter aircraft and a whole gamut of other types of aircraft and sensors.


Any detail news?


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Lol @ trying to compare with Turkey.
> 
> Turkey has GDP per capita PPP of nearly 30,000 US dollars and growing 6-7%% a year.
> Turkey had already signed billion dollar defence contracts to sell helicopters and ships.
> Korea has too small a population to compete with Turkey.
> 
> Indonesia should compare with other middle-income countries like Brazil and not a near 1st world country like Turkey.


TIL, turkey is a first world country XD 

Jokes aside... Indonesia is nowhere near turkey.


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> TIL, turkey is a first world country XD
> 
> Jokes aside... Indonesia is nowhere near turkey.



What the poster cannot get through her head is by 2030 Turkey will be a fully industrialised country of around 100 million people.
No way S Korea with 50 million people can compete with Turkey by then.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

UKBengali said:


> What the poster cannot get through her head is by 2030 Turkey will be a fully industrialised country of around 100 million people.
> No way S Korea with 50 million people can compete with Turkey by then.



I struggle to understand how Turkey, South Korea and Indonesia are compared..... a simple understanding of geopolitics would tell anyone that Turkey was part of an empire that led the Muslim world for 500 years, with land possessions and influence in three continents.... five century legacies do not die easy.... Indonesia was part of that influence too.... Korea was not even in the picture, until it came under US influence as a result of conflict with the Communists, and the resulting threat to Japan....

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## The Ronin

Fast-jets at CXB! 
CXB had its first fighter visitors on the 4th of this month. The duo is seen here enjoying a time out on the ramp in the vacationers' paradise.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> What the poster cannot get through her head is by 2030 Turkey will be a fully industrialised country of around 100 million people.
> No way S Korea with 50 million people can compete with Turkey by then.


Quite the opposite. Turkey doesn’t come close to the industrial might of the South Koreans. Industrialization alone doesn’t guarantee superiority. Technical expertise in fields Korea struggled to master and have only found successful in recent times are what needs to be conquered by turkey after which one could dream of a competition between them.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Fast-jets at CXB!
> CXB had its first fighter visitors on the 4th of this month. The duo is seen here enjoying a time out on the ramp in the vacationers' paradise.



Beautiful camo in the rain.


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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> Fast-jets at CXB!
> CXB had its first fighter visitors on the 4th of this month. The duo is seen here enjoying a time out on the ramp in the vacationers' paradise.



Trendsetters....

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1001138626729714

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Trendsetters....



Usually based out of Chittogong? Do we know how many F-7MB they fly?


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Usually based out of Chittogong? Do we know how many F-7MB they fly?



Trendsetters 25 SQN is based in Base BangaBandhu in Dhaka AFAIK. No idea on how many F-7MB but should be a full SQN with a couple of FT-7MBs, unless they lost a few hulls....

Looks like they deputed some to CXB but in preparation for what?


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Trendsetters 25 SQN is based in Base BangaBandhu in Dhaka AFAIK. No idea on how many F-7MB but should be a full SQN with a couple of FT-7MBs, unless they lost a few hulls....
> 
> Looks like they deputed some to CXB but in preparation for what?



The info out there is incorrect I believe.

I use scramble.nl as a reference but they seem to have No. 25 Sqdrn based outta Chittagong and mixed with L-39 and FT-7 which clearly isn’t the case.

Then I read another source (I forget exactly where) which states about 8-10 F-7MB currently in service.

One recently crashed a few years ago soon after take off as I recall from Chittagong.

As for Bangabundhu, No.5 and No. 35 are based there with the -BG and BGI as well as the Fulcrum half squadron.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> The info out there is incorrect I believe.
> 
> I use scramble.nl as a reference but they seem to have No. 25 Sqdrn based outta Chittagong and mixed with L-39 and FT-7 which clearly isn’t the case.
> 
> Then I read another source (I forget exactly where) which states about 8-10 F-7MB currently in service.
> 
> One recently crashed a few years ago soon after take off as I recall from Chittagong.
> 
> As for Bangabundhu, No.5 and No. 35 are based there with the -BG and BGI as well as the Fulcrum half squadron.



You are right - F-7 BGI's are definitely based out of Dhaka....don't know about MB's.


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## blinder

Avicenna said:


> The info out there is incorrect I believe.
> I use scramble.nl as a reference but they seem to have No. 25 Sqdrn based outta Chittagong and mixed with L-39 and FT-7 which clearly isn’t the case.


But why do L-39 have 25sq Trendsetter markings then? See:
https://www.baf.mil.bd/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/L-39-1.png


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## Avicenna

blinder said:


> But why do L-39 have 25sq Trendsetter markings then? See:
> https://www.baf.mil.bd/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/L-39-1.png



I think that used to be the case where L-39 was part of No.25 but since the K-8 where introduced I think the L-39 was merged with their squadron.

So this may be an old pic.

But truthfully I don’t know.

The stuff I have read is conflicting.

https://www.docdroid.net/file/downl...r-force-elefsis-airforces-monthly-2017-04.pdf

This article is from April 2017.


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## blinder

Indeed, a puzzle. By the way, the L-39s still had these markings December 2017. 
Also, the L-39 in the article has a 25sq badge too.
If they operate along the K-8, then why not apply a proper 15sq emblem?


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## Avicenna

blinder said:


> Indeed, a puzzle. By the way, the L-39s still had these markings December 2017.
> Also, the L-39 in the article has a 25sq badge too.
> If they operate along the K-8, then why not apply a proper 15sq emblem?



Good question, who knows?

I think maybe the L-39 are on their way to retirement and thus they don’t care to update the markings.

The second batch of K-8W is most likely a direct replacement for the remaining L-39.

It would also make sense that whatever new fighter aircraft BAF plans to buy is a replacement for the remaining F-7MB.

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## The Ronin

The Bangladesh Air Force has been authorized to raise new fighter squadrons and reorganise existing units to facilitate its expansion under Armed Forces Goal 2030.

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, also holding the Defence Minister’s portfolio has tasked the BAF top brass with coming up with a 40 year masterplan to modernise the force ensuring an effective deterrence capability against perceived threats.

https://goo.gl/FXqofY

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Good question, who knows?
> 
> I think maybe the L-39 are on their way to retirement and thus they don’t care to update the markings.
> 
> The second batch of K-8W is most likely a direct replacement for the remaining L-39.
> 
> It would also make sense that whatever new fighter aircraft BAF plans to buy is a replacement for the remaining F-7MB.



I concur. It seems L-39's and F-7MB's have outlived their tenure in BAF. Probably will be sold to restorers and airshow related private parties in the West. Could end up at Chino (near my neck of the woods).


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## Dazzler

The heroes of Pathankot attack (65), the hotshots!

Notice flying officer (then) Matiur Rahman, second from the left

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## Homo Sapiens

*সংসদে আনিসুল হক*
*আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষায় ক্ষেপণাস্ত্র সংযোজন হবে*
নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদক, ঢাকা
১১ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১৮, ২০:৩২
আপডেট: ১১ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১৮, ২৩:০৮






আইনমন্ত্রী আনিসুল হক। ছবি: প্রথম আলোসংসদ কাজে প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয়ের দায়িত্বপ্রাপ্ত মন্ত্রী আনিসুল হক বলেন, দেশের প্রতিরক্ষা ব্যবস্থাকে শক্তিশালী করতে বর্তমানে ‘ফোর্সেস গোল ২০৩০’ বিভিন্ন ধাপে চলমান আছে। এর আওতায় সেনাবাহিনীর জন্য বিভিন্ন নতুন ইউনিট সংযোজন, নৌবাহিনীর জন্য চট্টগ্রাম ড্রাইডকে আধুনিক ফ্রিগেট তৈরি, বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য বঙ্গবন্ধু অ্যারোনটিক্যাল সেন্টার ও মাল্টিরোল কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট এবং আকাশ প্রতিরক্ষাব্যবস্থার জন্য আধুনিক ক্ষেপণাস্ত্র সংযোজনের বিষয়টি চলমান আছে।

আজ মঙ্গলবার সংসদে মামুনুর রশীদের প্রশ্নের জবাবে আনিসুল হক এ কথা বলেন। প্রশ্নোত্তরের আগে বিকেল পাঁচটার পর স্পিকার শিরীন শারমিন চৌধুরীর সভাপতিত্বে সংসদের অধিবেশন শুরু হয়।

নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরীর এক সম্পূরক প্রশ্নের জবাবে আনিসুল হক বলেন, বঙ্গোপসাগরে জরিপ কাজ চালানোর জন্য একটি বিশেষায়িত জাহাজ কেনার কাজ চলছে। সেটি আসার পর সাগরে ডিজিটাল ম্যাপিংয়ের কাজ শুরু হবে।

নিজাম উদ্দিন হাজারীর প্রশ্নের জবাবে শামসুর রহমান শরীফ বলেন, ২০০৯ সাল থেকে এ পর্যন্ত সারা দেশে মোট ২ লাখ ৭৬ হাজার ৩৪৯ জন ভূমিহীন কৃষককে ১ লাখ ৪৫ হাজার ৭৩১ একর কৃষিজমি বরাদ্দ দেওয়া হয়েছে।

সানজিদা খানমের প্রশ্নের জবাবে বিমান ও পর্যটনমন্ত্রী এ কে এম শাহজাহান কামাল বলেন, চাহিদার আলোকে বিমানের রুট সম্প্রসারণের জন্য বিমানবহরে নতুন প্রজন্মের চারটি বোয়িং-৭৮৭ উড়োজাহাজ কেনার জন্য বোয়িং কোম্পানির সঙ্গে চুক্তি হয়েছে। চুক্তি অনুযায়ী ইতিমধ্যে একটি বোয়িং বিমান বহরে যুক্ত হয়েছে। আগামী নভেম্বরে আরও একটি বোয়িং যুক্ত হবে। বাকি দুটি যুক্ত হবে ২০১৯ সালে। এ ছাড়া একটি ড্যাশ-৮ উড়োজাহাজ এ মাসে বিমান বহরে যুক্ত হবে। আরও তিনটি ড্যাশ-৮ ২০২০ সালে যুক্ত হবে।

উম্মে রাজিয়ার প্রশ্নের জবাবে বিমানমন্ত্রী বলেন, বর্তমানে দেশে পাঁচটি বিমানবন্দর পরিত্যক্ত অবস্থায় আছে। এগুলোর মধ্য অন্যতম ঈশ্বরদী, ঠাকুরগাঁও, শমশের নগর ও কুমিল্লা বিমানবন্দর।

নবী নেওয়াজের প্রশ্নের জবাবে শাহজাহান কামাল বলেন, নোয়াখালী, বাগেরহাট ও পটুয়াখালী জেলায় তিনটি বিমানবন্দর নির্মাণের পরিকল্পনা সরকারের রয়েছে। এ জন্য বাগেরহাট জেলায় ভূমি অধিগ্রহণের কাজ শুরু হয়েছে। নোয়াখালীতে একটি এয়ারস্ট্রিপ আছে। সেটিকে উন্নয়নের মাধ্যমে বিমানবন্দরে রূপান্তর করা হবে।

ইয়াসিন আলীর প্রশ্নের জবাবে মুক্তিযুদ্ধবিষয়ক মন্ত্রী আ ক ম মোজাম্মেল বলেন, রাজাকার, আল বদর ও মানবতাবিরোধীদের তালিকা প্রকাশের বিষয়ে উদ্যোগ গ্রহণ করা হয়েছে। অচিরেই এই তালিকা প্রকাশ করা হবে।
https://www.prothomalo.com/bangladesh/article/1557146/আকাশ-প্রতিরক্ষায়-ক্ষেপণাস্ত্র-সংযোজন-হবে

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## TopCat

I have a good feeling for this guy.

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## Destranator

Good to see a 4th gen fighter pilot in charge. Hopefully he will place fighter procurement on afterburner.

Side notes:
Our government agencies need to stop using bread toasters to tape videos.

And please stop with the retarded songs in military videos.

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## Michael Corleone

chief mentions to the airmen that our next fighter will be cost effective...
mig 35 (i don't think so atm) /j-10 
any other guesses?



Al-Ansar said:


> Good to see a 4th gen fighter pilot in charge. Hopefully he will place fighter procurement on afterburner.
> 
> Side notes:
> Our government agencies need to stop using bread toasters to tape videos.
> 
> And please stop with the retarded songs in military videos.


these are BTV yaba dealers!

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> chief mentions to the airmen that our next fighter will be cost effective...
> mig 35 (i don't think so atm) /j-10
> any other guesses?
> 
> 
> these are BTV yaba dealers!



Gripen E life-cycle cost is no more than Mig-35 or J-10.

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## Imran Khan

UKBengali said:


> Gripen E life-cycle cost is no more than Mig-35 or J-10.


say hi to su-30 sir


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> say hi to su-30 sir


pilots have been trained and qualified for su-30 including the chief... let's see if it actually comes to bd


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> pilots have been trained and qualified for su-30 including the chief... let's see if it actually comes to bd


then better stick on them sir discussing j-10 and gripen etc should be closed and focus on be su-30 which is real deal

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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> then better stick on them sir discussing j-10 and gripen etc should be closed and focus on be su-30 which is real deal


i can clearly say, gripen is a wet dream of a few members of this forum.... it's never coming

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> i can clearly say, gripen is a wet dream of a few members of this forum.... it's never coming


i can not say it clearly or hidden they will start abusing me


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> So is Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale.  How the heck shit has gone this far??!!  We are becoming more laughing stock day by day.


I dare not say anything about this XD I’ve been butchered once already with out of context words from here.



The Ronin said:


> My bet on J-10. Mig-35 and Sukhoi might not come since we can't pay them in $$. Wonder how will we buy attack helicopter and other things


Truth be told, idk for sure (sukhoi or mig or both) idc... even with the orders placed... the airspace is sitting duck open for 3-4 years more

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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> pilots have been trained and qualified for su-30 including the chief... let's see if it actually comes to bd



LOL, so this is where its come to huh.



Michael Corleone said:


> I dare not say anything about this XD I’ve been butchered once already with out of context words from here.



I'm waiting for the next round of "confirmed" wet dreaming of 1000 page threads.



Michael Corleone said:


> i can clearly say, gripen is a wet dream of a few members of this forum.... it's never coming



See, you are learning! Smart boy!

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## bluesky

Nilgiri said:


> I'm waiting for the next round of "confirmed" wet dreaming of 1000 page threads.


We understand that the Indians would like to wait another 1000 years to see BAF not inducting Sukhoi or J-10. But wait for the election to close this year, you will certainly see our birds. You better keep ready your binocular.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> I dare not say anything about this XD I’ve been butchered once already with out of context words from here.
> 
> 
> Truth be told, idk for sure (sukhoi or mig or both) idc... even with the orders placed... the airspace is sitting duck open for 3-4 years more



Curious to know, what took you so long to acknowledge the truth?

Acknowledging what's wrong is the "First Step" to rectify it. Bangladeshi are in utter dream that Americans and Europeans are bad peoples and Russians are darling and honeybees!

Meanwhile Russian decided to supply few devastating weapons capabilities to Myanmar. India, America and Pakistan are training Myanmar Army and Myanmar Navy. If Myanmar releases all political prisoners than America may extend more assistance to Myanmar Navy. The current Australian government recently extended training funds for Myanmar Army.

If Myanmar Army induct SY-400 than that would be devastating blow to coastal air bases of Bangladesh.

You may say these are BS. But please help yourself and Google what I said.

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## Nilgiri

bluesky said:


> We understand that the Indians would like to wait another 1000 years to see BAF not inducting Sukhoi or J-10. But wait for the election to close this year, you will certainly see our birds. You better keep ready your binocular.



No need to keep anything "ready"....just wait for you to crash 3 together at same time midair of whatever you eventually get (if you even get it)...again and again till you have 0 again  ... you need to keep your asian games recent accomplishment some good company you know.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

i think any big deal news about BAF MRCA & BN Submarine purchase we have to wait till next govt. form. no news from armed forces will not publish during this before election. we all know parikar babura are waiting to threaten BD govt. why need to purchase these for Bangladesh.So we need to keep silence about discussion about BAF will buy this, BAf will buy that.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Curious to know, what took you so long to acknowledge the truth?


Because I’m sick of the games played by people



polanski said:


> Acknowledging what's wrong is the "First Step" to rectify it. Bangladeshi are in utter dream that Americans and Europeans are bad peoples and Russians are darling and honeybees!


Far from truth, Bangladeshis love/ dream to go to western countries/ live there... more than half the trade is with them... not Russia. Bangladeshis have neutral option of Russia 


polanski said:


> If Myanmar Army induct SY-400 than that would be devastating blow to coastal air bases of Bangladesh.


Not happening



Nilgiri said:


> LOL, so this is where its come to huh.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for the next round of "confirmed" wet dreaming of 1000 page threads.
> 
> 
> 
> See, you are learning! Smart boy!


Well, I know of what’s coming and what’s not but I dare not open my mouth and start another shitstorm here or elsewhere. 

Well, personally I was always skeptical of gripen story... but people here can keep dreaming if they want to


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Michael Corleone said:


> I dare not say anything about this XD I’ve been butchered once already with out of context words from here.
> 
> 
> Truth be told, idk for sure (sukhoi or mig or both) idc... even with the orders placed... the airspace is sitting duck open for 3-4 years more



okay, just forget about what others are throwing at us..... and take the conversation on training....

how many types of fighter aircraft can our pilots fly?..... you would need several years to make a good pilot on a specific type of aircraft, right?.... but it doesn't take that long to deliver an aircraft, right?.... and if the aircraft is already existing, it would require only enough time to fly in, right?.....

having pilots trained on several types of aircraft is a lot more powerful deterrent than a single type of fighter squadron....


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## polanski

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> okay, just forget about what others are throwing at us..... and take the conversation on training....
> 
> how many types of fighter aircraft can our pilots fly?..... you would need several years to make a good pilot on a specific type of aircraft, right?.... but it doesn't take that long to deliver an aircraft, right?.... and if the aircraft is already existing, it would require only enough time to fly in, right?.....
> 
> having pilots trained on several types of aircraft is a lot more powerful deterrent than a single type of fighter squadron....


I didn't want to reply to this thread but such an idiotic post deserves a reply.
To retain knowledge and skills, a fighter jet pilot must fly his/her designated fighter aircraft minimum 17-20 flying hours per month plus the war games.
Currently, all modern air force maintain 17 flying hours per month.
This is dedicated fighter squadron hours. Some pilots even scores more hours by flying training aircraft to maintain edge on the flying skills.
You can fly sukhoi or j-10 once a year but that doesn't make anybody pilot. This is exactly why Bangladeshi pilots crashed more aircraft than other regional air force.
You are sending your pilot to Rapid Action Battalion and UN peace support mission that's why crashed aircraft.
Think simply, you have to work on a profession regularly to maintain skills whether you are an accountant or a doctor or a pilot.

The main reason Indian Air Force is stressed that they train everyday which has positive side. One of the reasons IAF bought Rafale is that Rafale's availability for service is 75% compared su-30's 55% availability. So that the IAF pilots can fly more and train hard for combat readiness.
Same for MAF, RTAF, RMAF and PAF. These guys train on real combat aircraft.

You can fly K-8 and Yak-130 but you will never be combat ready. Key word is combat ready.

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## Michael Corleone

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> okay, just forget about what others are throwing at us..... and take the conversation on training....
> 
> how many types of fighter aircraft can our pilots fly?..... you would need several years to make a good pilot on a specific type of aircraft, right?.... but it doesn't take that long to deliver an aircraft, right?.... and if the aircraft is already existing, it would require only enough time to fly in, right?.....
> 
> having pilots trained on several types of aircraft is a lot more powerful deterrent than a single type of fighter squadron....


Russian and Chinese fighters mostly. In the 90s pilots were trained in f-16 but that’s about it. Heard BAF officers were sent along with navy officials to France but wouldn’t scratch my head around it

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Michael Corleone said:


> Russian and Chinese fighters mostly. In the 90s pilots were trained in f-16 but that’s about it. Heard BAF officers were sent along with navy officials to France but wouldn’t scratch my head around it



hmm, right.... but there are certain things that are well left to speculation only.... I believe you understand what I mean.... just take a look at the severe response this post attracted....


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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> Russian and Chinese fighters mostly. In the 90s pilots were trained in f-16 but that’s about it. Heard BAF officers were sent along with navy officials to France but wouldn’t scratch my head around it


BD pilots were never trained for f-16 in 90's.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> BD pilots were never trained for f-16 in 90's.


Riyaz was, in turkey.



polanski said:


> I didn't want to reply to this thread but such an idiotic post deserves a reply.
> To retain knowledge and skills, a fighter jet pilot must fly his/her designated fighter aircraft minimum 17-20 flying hours per month plus the war games.
> Currently, all modern air force maintain 17 flying hours per month.
> This is dedicated fighter squadron hours. Some pilots even scores more hours by flying training aircraft to maintain edge on the flying skills.
> You can fly sukhoi or j-10 once a year but that doesn't make anybody pilot. This is exactly why Bangladeshi pilots crashed more aircraft than other regional air force.
> You are sending your pilot to Rapid Action Battalion and UN peace support mission that's why crashed aircraft.
> Think simply, you have to work on a profession regularly to maintain skills whether you are an accountant or a doctor or a pilot.
> 
> The main reason Indian Air Force is stressed that they train everyday which has positive side. One of the reasons IAF bought Rafale is that Rafale's availability for service is 75% compared su-30's 55% availability. So that the IAF pilots can fly more and train hard for combat readiness.
> Same for MAF, RTAF, RMAF and PAF. These guys train on real combat aircraft.
> 
> You can fly K-8 and Yak-130 but you will never be combat ready. Key word is combat ready.


I wonder where you’re getting your crash figures from, any legitimate source?

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Riyaz was, in turkey.
> 
> 
> I wonder where you’re getting your crash figures from, any legitimate source?



Bangladeshi Press and Digital Media
You would not be surprised that people has mobile phone with camera and they publish the accident before ISPR says anything.
There are even video records of K-8 pilots sparodic maneuvers before crashing the aircraft which I will post on right time in this forum.

You can ask your people to delete all the photos from their phones or delete them from the content provider. Google keeps cache content, that would be main problem.
Sajeeb Wazed doesn't like press freedom but you can access internet in America. Nobody switch off Facebook or Twitter or WhatsApp to suppress students in other parts of the world.

It will always be leaked to internet. Pilots family said that they came back from UN mission before crashing the K-8 aircraft and died on accident.

No BS at all.

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## Destranator

polanski said:


> Bangladeshi Press and Digital Media
> You would not be surprised that people has mobile phone with camera and *they publish the accident before ISPR says anything.*
> There are even video records of K-8 pilots sparodic maneuvers before crashing the aircraft which I will post on right time in this forum.
> 
> You can ask your people to delete all the photos from their phones or delete them from the content provider. Google keeps cache content, that would be main problem.
> *Sajeeb Wazed doesn't like press freedom* but you can access internet in America. Nobody switch off Facebook or Twitter or WhatsApp to suppress students in other parts of the world.
> 
> It will always be leaked to internet. *Pilots family said that they came back from UN mission* before crashing the K-8 aircraft and died on accident.
> 
> No BS at all.



So much interest in BD affairs from a "non-Bangladeshi"...



polanski said:


> I didn't want to reply to this thread but such an idiotic post deserves a reply.
> To retain knowledge and skills, a fighter jet pilot must fly his/her designated fighter aircraft minimum 17-20 flying hours per month plus the war games.
> Currently, all modern air force maintain 17 flying hours per month.
> This is dedicated fighter squadron hours. Some pilots even scores more hours by flying training aircraft to maintain edge on the flying skills.
> You can fly sukhoi or j-10 once a year but that doesn't make anybody pilot. This is exactly why Bangladeshi pilots crashed more aircraft than other regional air force.
> You are sending your pilot to Rapid Action Battalion and UN peace support mission that's why crashed aircraft.
> Think simply, you have to work on a profession regularly to maintain skills whether you are an accountant or a doctor or a pilot.
> 
> The main reason Indian Air Force is stressed that they train everyday which has positive side. One of the reasons IAF bought Rafale is that Rafale's availability for service is 75% compared su-30's 55% availability. So that the IAF pilots can fly more and train hard for combat readiness.
> Same for MAF, RTAF, RMAF and PAF. These guys train on real combat aircraft.
> 
> You can fly K-8 and Yak-130 but you will never be combat ready. Key word is combat ready.


Now this one is a very good post, Raihan. Indeed, flying J-10s or F-16s a few times don't make you competent flyers of those platforms.

BAF is trying to plug the shortfall in flying hours on fighter aircraft with trainers but this is not good enough.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

China said Friday it was "outraged" over U.S. economic sanctions against a Chinese military agency and its director over the purchase of Russian fighter jets and surface-to-air missile equipment, and demanded the U.S. cancel the measure. Few Weeks earlier USA also threatened India for avoid to buy s400 from Russia otherwise they will also have to face economic sanctions. So on the basis of this circumstances BD has only the way to buy MRCA from China or West.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Bangladeshi Press and Digital Media
> You would not be surprised that people has mobile phone with camera and they publish the accident before ISPR says anything.
> There are even video records of K-8 pilots sparodic maneuvers before crashing the aircraft which I will post on right time in this forum.
> 
> You can ask your people to delete all the photos from their phones or delete them from the content provider. Google keeps cache content, that would be main problem.
> Sajeeb Wazed doesn't like press freedom but you can access internet in America. Nobody switch off Facebook or Twitter or WhatsApp to suppress students in other parts of the world.
> 
> It will always be leaked to internet. Pilots family said that they came back from UN mission before crashing the K-8 aircraft and died on accident.
> 
> No BS at all.


but this is no legitimate excuse to the original source that i asked for to back up your claim that BAF has the highest crash rate among regional airforce....


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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> but this is no legitimate excuse to the original source that i asked for to back up your claim that BAF has the highest crash rate among regional airforce....


Be innovative.. Calculate the (Total No of Crash)/ (No of total flying hours). You cant crash a plane while sitting on the tarmac.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Be innovative.. Calculate the (Total No of Crash)/ (No of total flying hours). You cant crash a plane while sitting on the tarmac.


speaking of being "innovative" where are you getting your flight data from?
irony is the suggestion is coming from people of the least innovative country

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## Michael Corleone

India lost 264 aircraft from 2000 to 2015.... for ex. So provide me a legitimate figure with source...


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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> India lost 264 aircraft from 2000 to 2015.... for ex. So provide me a legitimate figure with source...



What is the avg yearly flying hours of a BAF pilot would you say in that time period (2000 - 2015)?

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## polanski

Bangladesh Air Force is a semi-professional air guard. You cannot consider F-7 AKA Mig-21 as a fighter jet. 
India is putting them on the shelf. Nigeria tried to used them against Boka Haram, it didn't work. So they fail back to A-29 and JF-17. 
As far as the statistics concerned, please look at logo and pilots photo. 
Bangladesh Air Guard crashed Yak among all Yak operators. Russia crashed few of them because the technical issues. And Yak is Russian junk anyway. 
Bangladesh Air Guard crashed K-8, PT-6 and Cesna. 
The most important fact is that Bangladesh Air Guard crashed aircraft and helicopters at low visibility situation either at night or at fog. This tells me that the pilots and instructors aren't trained to fly at night and dont have flying skills using instruments.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Bangladesh Air Force is a semi-professional air guard. You cannot consider F-7 AKA Mig-21 as a fighter jet.
> India is putting them on the shelf. Nigeria tried to used them against Boka Haram, it didn't work. So they fail back to A-29 and JF-17.
> As far as the statistics concerned, please look at logo and pilots photo.
> Bangladesh Air Guard crashed Yak among all Yak operators. Russia crashed few of them because the technical issues. And Yak is Russian junk anyway.
> Bangladesh Air Guard crashed K-8, PT-6 and Cesna.
> The most important fact is that Bangladesh Air Guard crashed aircraft and helicopters at low visibility situation either at night or at fog. This tells me that the pilots and instructors aren't trained to fly at night and dont have flying skills using instruments.



Legitimate point.

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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> What is the avg yearly flying hours of a BAF pilot would you say in that time period (2000 - 2015)?


@polanski have the data, i am waiting to hear from him



polanski said:


> As far as the statistics concerned, please look at logo and pilots photo.


sums up your bs claims



polanski said:


> Bangladesh Air Guard crashed Yak among all Yak operators. Russia crashed few of them because the technical issues. And Yak is Russian junk anyway.
> Bangladesh Air Guard crashed K-8, PT-6 and Cesna.


all of the crashes have been technical faults and have been compensated for by russia....
what's your point? crashes are never supposed to happen? might as well keep the airframes in the hangar... zero crash rate that way

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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> all of the crashes have been technical faults and *have been compensated for by russia*....


LOL 
still claim like a child. so any source ?

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> all of the crashes have been technical faults and have been compensated for by russia....



Russia doesn't have a refund policy. Russia never refunded major arms importer like China, India, Vietnam, Iran and Algeria. Bangladesh is few million dollars buyer. Why would Russia refund anything to Bangladesh to set precedence on thier refund policy. Why would Russia refund for rookie mistakes of Bangladeshi pilots?
Stop your BS.

[IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/36460036_898681786968983_4214826646525444096_n.jpg?w=840[/IMG]
K-8 Sunk.
[IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
Yal-130 Crashed
[IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak-130.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
Another Yak-130
[IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/moron.jpg?w=547&h=365[/IMG]
Wing Commander Rajib Hossain making a phone call after Yak-130 crashed. It's not his phone though!
[B]Wing Commander Rajib Hossain (pictured) was absent from any flying activities for two years whilst acting as Deputy Director of Rapid Action Battalion.
[IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/mi-17_helicopter_crash.jpg?w=589&h=366[/IMG][/B]
Mi-17 crashed
[ATTACH=full]500763[/ATTACH]
Mi-17 crashed Kuwaiti delegates!

Do you need more statistics?

Have fun!
@nilgiri @Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Imran Khan

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Russia doesn't have a refund policy. Russia never refunded major arms importer like China, India, Vietnam, Iran and Algeria. Bangladesh is few million dollars buyer. Why would Russia refund anything to Bangladesh to set precedence on thier refund policy. Why would Russia refund for rookie mistakes of Bangladeshi pilots?
> Stop your BS.
> 
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/36460036_898681786968983_4214826646525444096_n.jpg?w=840[/IMG]
> K-8 Sunk.
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
> Yal-130 Crashed
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak-130.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
> Another Yak-130
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/moron.jpg?w=547&h=365[/IMG]
> Wing Commander Rajib Hossain making a phone call after Yak-130 crashed. It's not his phone though!
> [B]Wing Commander Rajib Hossain (pictured) was absent from any flying activities for two years whilst acting as Deputy Director of Rapid Action Battalion.
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/mi-17_helicopter_crash.jpg?w=589&h=366[/IMG][/B]
> Mi-17 crashed
> [ATTACH=full]500763[/ATTACH]
> Mi-17 crashed Kuwaiti delegates!
> 
> Do you need more statistics?
> 
> Have fun!
> @nilgiri @Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Imran Khan


aircrafts sold comes with warranty.... lmao
https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...ngladesh-rescue-team-evacuated-us-within-5min
stop living in the dream world of polanski air force, where planes are refueled with unicorn blood and they never crash....


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## ghost250

https://thedefensepost.com/2018/04/03/myanmar-military-plane-crash-pilot-dies/

*Army says technical failure to blame for F-7 fighter jet crash...*

*http://alert5.com/2016/06/15/myanmar-mi-2-crashes/*

*Three Myanmar airmen were killed when their Mi-2 helicopter went down in a valley near the Yangon-Mandalay highway on Jun. 14.*

*http://alert5.com/2013/01/13/myanmar-mi-35-crashed-in-the-countrys-north/*

*Myanmar Mi-35 crashed in the country’s north...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/military-plane-crash-in-burma-kills-4-1.2771816

Military plane crash in Burma kills 4




Military personnel inspect the wreckage of a Burma military aircraft that crashed in an area close to the airport in Naypyitaw, Burma on Wednesday, Feb. 10, 2016. (AP / Aung Shine Oo)





0
















0









0

The Associated Press 
Published Wednesday, February 10, 2016 2:56AM EST 
NAYPYITAW, Burma - Four Burma military personnel were killed and one survived when an air force utility aircraft crashed after taking off from the airport in the capital Naypyitaw.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=166859

The MiG-29 caught fire and burnt to pieces after it fell onto a farmland near Myothit township of Magway at 8:30 a.m. (local time). Two army officers escaped death with parachutes but were injured....

want more??
*

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## mb444

polanski said:


> Russia doesn't have a refund policy. Russia never refunded major arms importer like China, India, Vietnam, Iran and Algeria. Bangladesh is few million dollars buyer. Why would Russia refund anything to Bangladesh to set precedence on thier refund policy. Why would Russia refund for rookie mistakes of Bangladeshi pilots?
> Stop your BS.
> 
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/36460036_898681786968983_4214826646525444096_n.jpg?w=840[/IMG]
> K-8 Sunk.
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
> Yal-130 Crashed
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak-130.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
> Another Yak-130
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/moron.jpg?w=547&h=365[/IMG]
> Wing Commander Rajib Hossain making a phone call after Yak-130 crashed. It's not his phone though!
> [B]Wing Commander Rajib Hossain (pictured) was absent from any flying activities for two years whilst acting as Deputy Director of Rapid Action Battalion.
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/mi-17_helicopter_crash.jpg?w=589&h=366[/IMG][/B]
> Mi-17 crashed
> [ATTACH=full]500763[/ATTACH]
> Mi-17 crashed Kuwaiti delegates!
> 
> Do you need more statistics?
> 
> Have fun!
> @nilgiri @Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Imran Khan




Yes it does....if it did not no one would buy their systems. However to establish systems failure as opposed to human error or operational failure maybe difficult to establish in all but the most clear cut scenario.

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## Imran Khan

polanski said:


> Russia doesn't have a refund policy. Russia never refunded major arms importer like China, India, Vietnam, Iran and Algeria. Bangladesh is few million dollars buyer. Why would Russia refund anything to Bangladesh to set precedence on thier refund policy. Why would Russia refund for rookie mistakes of Bangladeshi pilots?
> Stop your BS.
> 
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/36460036_898681786968983_4214826646525444096_n.jpg?w=840[/IMG]
> K-8 Sunk.
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
> Yal-130 Crashed
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/yak-130.png?w=416&h=416&crop=1[/IMG]
> Another Yak-130
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/moron.jpg?w=547&h=365[/IMG]
> Wing Commander Rajib Hossain making a phone call after Yak-130 crashed. It's not his phone though!
> [B]Wing Commander Rajib Hossain (pictured) was absent from any flying activities for two years whilst acting as Deputy Director of Rapid Action Battalion.
> [IMG]https://exoatmospheric.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/mi-17_helicopter_crash.jpg?w=589&h=366[/IMG][/B]
> Mi-17 crashed
> [ATTACH=full]500763[/ATTACH]
> Mi-17 crashed Kuwaiti delegates!
> 
> Do you need more statistics?
> 
> Have fun!
> @nilgiri @Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Imran Khan


shiit happen but in smaller fleets it should not happen

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## Michael Corleone

Bangladeshi pilots and aviation engineers are being issued UK standard license by Great Britain.


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## The Ronin

That retard barking here again??!! Look how well he is licking boot of Americans and Europeans like always he does when the talk wasn't about who is good or bad in first place. As if we don't know how much "good" they are. Never saw him giving a proof about how many fighter pilots did he see to participate in UN missions who he blames for crashing our aircraft. He keeps playings the same broken record about that wing commander, guess that's only thing in his stock for barking against BAF. And why so much fuss about using other people phone? What point he is trying to make?? So he will just sit there after a crash and not inform his family and BAF about the situation? Then the idiot keep crying about 1.5 year old news about Myanmar buying SY-400 when there's no new update yet. Before suggesting other to google anything he should google himself what does Bangladesh Police uniform look like. Hope this retard get some sleep after 1 squadron fighter and new SAM procurement. So he can dream about his western master paying him a penny after trying so hard to promote their fighters to us. Still waiting for him to proof that our AF has higher crash rate than any other regional AF. The moron calls Yak-130 junk because of few crash while it was partially joint development by Italy and Russia. Also while the idiot talking about Australia's close relations with Burma, he probably doesn't know that they are considering sanctions against them.

https://www.thedailystar.net/rohing...-considers-targeted-sanctions-myanmar-1635940



Michael Corleone said:


> Truth be told, idk for sure (sukhoi or mig or both) idc... even with the orders placed... the airspace is sitting duck open for 3-4 years more



3-4 more years?? Delivery of a batch is supposed to be in one year or little longer, but why will it take that long? After law minister's announcement about SAM and 1 squadron fighter (two times by now), chief's talk about cost effective fighter and if we take your admin's word for J-10's deal signing then hopefully by 2019??

And looks like we should not expect anything Russian after the sanctions against China. Does anyone know any details?? Will we be effected or able to buy Russian equipment??

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## The Ronin

অস্ট্রিয়াতে অফিশিয়াল ট্যুরে বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর সদস্যদের ছবি।

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> That retard barking here again??!! Look how well he is licking boot of Americans and Europeans like always he does when the talk wasn't about who is good or bad in first place. As if we don't know how much "good" they are. Never saw him giving a proof about how many fighter pilots did he see to participate in UN missions who he blames for crashing our aircraft. He keeps playings the same broken record about that wing commander, guess that's only thing in his stock for barking against BAF. And why so much fuss about using other people phone? What point he is trying to make?? So he will just sit there after a crash and not inform his family and BAF about the situation? Then the idiot keep crying about 1.5 year old news about Myanmar buying SY-400 when there's no new update yet. Before suggesting other to google anything he should google himself what does Bangladesh Police uniform look like. Hope this retard get some sleep after 1 squadron fighter and new SAM procurement. So he can dream about his western master paying him a penny after trying so hard to promote their fighters to us. Still waiting for him to proof that our AF has higher crash rate than any other regional AF. The moron calls Yak-130 junk because of few crash while it was partially joint development by Italy and Russia. Also while the idiot talking about Australia's close relations with Burma, he probably doesn't know that they are considering sanctions against them.
> 
> https://www.thedailystar.net/rohing...-considers-targeted-sanctions-myanmar-1635940
> 
> 
> 
> 3-4 more years?? Delivery of a batch is supposed to be in one year or little longer, but why will it take that long? After law minister's announcement about SAM and 1 squadron fighter (two times by now), chief's talk about cost effective fighter and if we take your admin's word for J-10's deal signing then hopefully by 2019??
> 
> And looks like we should not expect anything Russian after the sanctions against China. Does anyone know any details?? Will we be effected or able to buy Russian equipment??


Alenia Aermacchi, BAE, airbus defence, SAAB have all sent their representatives and their offers for the next fighter/ transport aircrafts purchase, and tbh it’s all but set atm which fighter is about to be purchased... I can name one now but any shift in stance after election would leave my words worthless... so let’s wait until after elections... and I too think that Bangladesh will face sanctions if we decide to buy Russian products atm given we’ve got a little orange boy in US’s helm



shourov323 said:


> The MiG-29 caught fire and burnt to pieces after it fell onto a farmland near Myothit township of Magway at 8:30 a.m. (local time). Two army officers escaped death with parachutes but were injured....


I remember the time he posted that mig 29 pic and claiming it was BAF mig, had the audacity to pin that pic in his article too. XD


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Alenia Aermacchi, BAE, airbus defence, SAAB have all sent their representatives and their offers for the next fighter/ transport aircrafts purchase, and tbh it’s all but set atm which fighter is about to be purchased... I can name one now but any shift in stance after election would leave my words worthless... so let’s wait until after elections... and I too think that Bangladesh will face sanctions if we decide to buy Russian products atm given we’ve got a little orange boy in US’s helm




So you think with Russia jets likely not an option, BD will go with Western as well as Chinese fighters?


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladeshi pilots and aviation engineers are being issued UK standard license by Great Britain.


Evidence?



Michael Corleone said:


> Alenia Aermacchi, BAE, airbus defence, SAAB have all sent their representatives and their offers for the next fighter/ transport aircrafts purchase, and tbh it’s all but set atm which fighter is about to be purchased... I can name one now but any shift in stance after election would leave my words worthless... so let’s wait until after elections... and I too think that Bangladesh will face sanctions if we decide to buy Russian products atm given we’ve got a little orange boy in US’s helm
> 
> 
> I remember the time he posted that mig 29 pic and claiming it was BAF mig, had the audacity to pin that pic in his article too. XD


In your previous post, you were so negligent about European fighter. What happened today that you switched side? Now you are blaming America because you couldn't buy fighter jet from Russia. That doesn't make sense! Donald Trump didn't stop you from doing anything. American economy is booming and jobs market is great under Trump's leadership.

Other guy blamed India for Bangladesh Military's poor state.

One of your guy @monitor posting f European Union in this forum. Taking trash about T-129 engine.
Which one of you are correct? Is there anyone in Bangladesh who takes responsibility of anything without finger pointing America or India.

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## The Ronin

Doesn't this simple thing really go through his think skull or does he only pretend to not seeing anything. Who put CAATSA act in action to weaponize the Dollar?? Why China got sanctioned?? Why Philippines has been warned by US for buying Kilo class? Why India is trying to bypass the CAATSA act to buy S-400?? Sure Trump didn't stop anyone from anything, we really shouldn't blame America for being unable to buy Russian fighter?? It was the Martian alien who put the CAATSA act in action, right?? 

And that's why we are talking about possibility of buying western fighters now. and about Bangladeshi pilots and aviation engineers are being issued UK standard license by Great Britain. It was old news i guess, saw here posted before. anyway here it is:

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...t-engineers-get-uk-standard-aviation-licenses


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Evidence?
> 
> 
> In your previous post, you were so negligent about European fighter. What happened today that you switched side? Now you are blaming America because you couldn't buy fighter jet Russia. That doesn't make sense! Donald Trump didn't stop you from doing anything. American economy is booming and jobs market is great under Teump's leadership.
> 
> Other guy blamed India for Bangladesh Military's poor state.
> 
> One of your guy @monitor posting f European Union in this forum. Taking trash about T-129 engine.
> Which one of you are correct? Is there anyone in Bangladesh who takes responsibility of anything without finger pointing America or India.



Actually the economy was doing great before Trump. 

He had nothing to do with it.

Also, I doubt you are from the United States.


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## Michael Corleone

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/b...ia-on-aviation-safety-icao-audit-2983411.html



polanski said:


> Evidence?


Should be the last guy asking me for “evidence” xD 



polanski said:


> In your previous post, you were so negligent about European fighter. What happened today that you switched side? Now you are blaming America because you couldn't buy fighter jet from Russia. That doesn't make sense! Donald Trump didn't stop you from doing anything. American economy is booming and jobs market is great under Trump's leadership.
> 
> Other guy blamed India for Bangladesh Military's poor state.
> 
> One of your guy @monitor posting f European Union in this forum. Taking trash about T-129 engine.
> Which one of you are correct? Is there anyone in Bangladesh who takes responsibility of anything without finger pointing America or India.


I’m not blaming America for anything. Russian arms export is under embargo and it’s unlikely we will break the rules if we’re offered alternatives. What made me switched sides!? Let’s just say “evidence” XD 

Anyways options are all on the table, political stance and interest will seal the fate of the fighter deal.



UKBengali said:


> So you think with Russia jets likely not an option, BD will go with Western as well as Chinese fighters?


Russian jets are also being actively pushed by many seniors in the air force... su35 is being requested but defence ministry (sheikh hasina) rejected it once on cost ground.... and is asking the air force to provide long term cost effective platform that wouldn’t be obsolete in a decades time. 
It will be pitched alongside EFT/ su-30 as can be heard from Air Force officials

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/b...ia-on-aviation-safety-icao-audit-2983411.html
> 
> 
> Should be the last guy asking me for “evidence” xD
> 
> 
> I’m not blaming America for anything. Russian arms export is under embargo and it’s unlikely we will break the rules if we’re offered alternatives. What made me switched sides!? Let’s just say “evidence” XD
> 
> Anyways options are all on the table, political stance and interest will seal the fate of the fighter deal.
> 
> 
> Russian jets are also being actively pushed by many seniors in the air force... su35 is being requested but defence ministry (sheikh hasina) rejected it once on cost ground.... and is asking the air force to provide long term cost effective platform that wouldn’t be obsolete in a decades time.
> It will be pitched alongside EFT/ su-30 as can be heard from Air Force officials



Only EU fighter that BD can really afford is Gripen.
Eurofighter and Rafale are too expensive to purchase and operate.
Major problem is that it has an US engine and not sure if US would allow export to BD.

SU-30SME is most likely out as BD cannot afford US sanctions.

@Avicenna : You think US would allow BD to buy Gripen?

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Russian jets are also being actively pushed by many seniors in the air force... su35 is being requested but defence ministry (sheikh hasina) rejected it once on cost ground.... and is asking the air force to provide long term cost effective platform that wouldn’t be obsolete in a decades time.
> It will be pitched alongside EFT/ su-30 as can be heard from Air Force officials



This??


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Only EU fighter that BD can really afford is Gripen.
> Eurofighter and Rafale are too expensive to purchase and operate.
> Major problem is that it has an US engine and not sure if US would allow export to BD.
> 
> SU-30SME is most likely out as BD cannot afford US sanctions.
> 
> @Avicenna : You think US would allow BD to buy Gripen?





The Ronin said:


> This??
> 
> View attachment 501187


Let’s not speculate, fazil der chance na dei!

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Only EU fighter that BD can really afford is Gripen.
> Eurofighter and Rafale are too expensive to purchase and operate.
> Major problem is that it has an US engine and not sure if US would allow export to BD.
> 
> SU-30SME is most likely out as BD cannot afford US sanctions.
> 
> @Avicenna : You think US would allow BD to buy Gripen?



I think if Bangaldesh ever approached the US for access to the Gripen, they would probably try to sell F-16s from the boneyard refurbished first.

I really don't know how realistic all this is.

The only way it can make sense is if the US sees Bangaldesh in a different light given bigger circumstances in the region.

Also it would require Bangladesh to essentially come under the US sphere vis a vis China.

Only in that respect do I see approval of anything to Bangladesh.

Also, off topic, I wonder how the Phillipines can entertain the Gripen or used F-16s for the requirement and somehow Bangladesh can't for any naysayers out there.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> I think if Bangaldesh ever approached the US for access to the Gripen, they would probably try to sell F-16s from the boneyard refurbished first.
> 
> I really don't know how realistic all this is.
> 
> The only way it can make sense is if the US sees Bangaldesh in a different light given bigger circumstances in the region.
> 
> Also it would require Bangladesh to essentially come under the US sphere vis a vis China.
> 
> Only in that respect do I see approval of anything to Bangladesh.
> 
> Also, off topic, I wonder how the Phillipines can entertain the Gripen or used F-16s for the requirement and somehow Bangladesh can't for any naysayers out there.



Phillipines was a US colony and up until fairly recently a semi protectorate. They have access to the US in a manner that we do not.

This non sensical US sanctions complicates matters enormously for BAF. Russian birds are quite clearly out of question. BAF needs to lock down Chinese jets as a priority and then look for an western option.

I see silver lining in this. Although the way BAF is I don't think US sanction matter. Before any decision is made trump would have completed his second term....

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## Avicenna

Please keep this thread on topic.

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## Avicenna

Saddam Hussien said:


> lol kid, your china is nothing but a pariah state. why would want sympathy from you.



Hey can you stop?

Please keep this thread on topic.


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## moweike

Saddam Hussien said:


> lol kid, your china is nothing but a pariah state. why would want sympathy from you.


utterly discomfited？lol Did the quarrel start?I will not abuse your country,This is a cowardly act

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## UserUnknown2025

Saddam Hussien said:


> listen china kid, so you would keep your investment safe instend of helping people who are being killed. wow , it shows a lot of chinese mindset. i am happy that the japanese commited genocide aganist your people in ww2.


@UKBengali
Why do you blame everything on China? Did China kill them? You don’t blame the perpetrators but instead a country which has nothing to do with the “genocide”. And now you go as far as to say you are happy for what the Japanese did to innocent Chinese people. If you blame someone just because they didn’t do everything they could have to help someone else, I can blame BD for not stopping the Japanese invasion of China, the Mongolian invasion of China, and every other bad thing that has ever happened in China. China provides BD an opportunity to become developed and have a BD miracle just as China had its China miracle, but all China gets are nothing but attacks. Sometimes I wonder why China still help these ungrateful undeveloped countries. It should just let them become nothing but a market for other countries to plunder. That’s right, in the eyes of others countries like BD are nothing but emerging markets, not even normal countries.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Stop off topic and abusing posts! @waz bhai...



Saddam Hussien said:


> i am happy that the japanese commited genocide aganist your people in ww2.


Please, shut up! Crime against humanity must not be supported...

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## Flynn Swagmire

Saddam Hussien said:


> and what is china doing.


For now, let them...


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## waz

This is NOT the place to discuss political affairs, this section is strictly related to the air arm of the armed forces of Bangladesh.
I shall delete the off-topic posts, and please heed my warning or more stringent action will follow e.g. a ban.

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force issues tender for an advanced Air Craft Aresting barrier than can stop an aircraft in less than 500 feet or around 150m .The system should be completely Remote controlled and would be controlled by the ATC tower . And it should be from USA/UK/Russia/Japan?Turkey/EU Countries (NOT CHINA ) and should be compatible to F-7 , Yak-130 , L-39 ,k-8w and Mig-29.

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2537.pdf

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## UserUnknown2025

Flynn Swagmire said:


> For now, let them...


Hide your strength, bide your time? And revenge when you can?

Will BD get the new Chinese light fighter?



Saddam Hussien said:


> and what is china doing.
> 
> 
> then why china veto aganist bangladesh in the UN?


Because what is happening is the internal affairs of Myanmar. If BD were Myanmar, China would also veto. 

Does BD plan to obtain fifth gem fighter?

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## Flynn Swagmire

UserUnknown2025 said:


> Hide your strength, bide your time? And revenge when you can?


BD isn't an ambitious or hateful country.


UserUnknown2025 said:


> Will BD get the new Chinese light fighter?


I have no insider info...


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> They are making bunch of Yak pilots which can be used as ground attack plane as they have no other plans.


ours aren't configured for ground attack.... and you don't need 50 more g suits for a fleet of 13

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> ours aren't configured for ground attack.... and you don't need 50 more g suits for a fleet of 13


3 pilots per craft. Besides they may send them to laundry shop once in a while.. right.
All of them configured for land attack after we retired A-5s

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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> aircrafts sold comes with warranty.... lmao
> https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...ngladesh-rescue-team-evacuated-us-within-5min
> stop living in the dream world of polanski air force, where planes are refueled with unicorn blood and they never crash....



Warranty has fine print that has to show the fault lies with provider and not the user. So we need to see the clear evidence that Yakolev accepted fault.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force issues tender for an advanced Air Craft Aresting barrier than can stop an aircraft in less than 500 feet or around 150m .The system should be completely Remote controlled and would be controlled by the ATC tower . And it should be from USA/UK/Russia/Japan?Turkey/EU Countries (NOT CHINA ) and should be compatible to F-7 , Yak-130 , L-39 ,k-8w and Mig-29.
> 
> http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2537.pdf



Very interesting......

Not about the BAF but interesting article.

If the Philippines can do it with Duerte, why can't Bangaldesh? i.e. Gripen or some other Western platform

I'm telling you. Change the status quo and go hard after Western fighters and learn western tactics. 

This can only help Bangladesh militarily in the long run.

https://www.janes.com/article/83427/philippine-air-force-prioritises-fighter-aircraft-procurement

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> Very interesting......
> 
> Not about the BAF but interesting article.
> 
> If the Philippines can do it with Duerte, why can't Bangaldesh? i.e. Gripen or some other Western platform
> 
> I'm telling you. Change the status quo and go hard after Western fighters and learn western tactics.
> 
> This can only help Bangladesh militarily in the long run.
> 
> https://www.janes.com/article/83427/philippine-air-force-prioritises-fighter-aircraft-procurement


Durte has balls to talk straight and bomb terrorists. Bangladeshi politicians don't have balls and lead by menopause lady. 
Please rename this thread to Bangladesh Air Guard. Other two threads can be renamed to UN peacekeeping police and second hand littoral border police respectively. 
Basically let me understand @Michael Corleone you asked for 8× MRCA and specify fighter jet with western Avionics and radar then buy 8x Yak instead of MRCA. 
Then obviously your Air Guard is lead by bounce of A$$ Holes.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Durte has balls to talk straight and bomb terrorists. Bangladeshi politicians don't have balls and lead by menopause lady.
> Please rename this thread to Bangladesh Air Guard. Other two threads can be renamed to UN peacekeeping police and second hand littoral border police respectively.
> Basically let me understand @Michael Corleone you asked for 8× MRCA and specify fighter jet with western Avionics and radar then buy 8x Yak instead of MRCA.
> Then obviously your Air Guard is lead by bounce of A$$ Holes.



To tell you the truth, I think there is something going on behind the scenes where its not status quo anymore in terms of source of procurement.

So I would just give it some time and see where the chips fall.

Personally, as a pessimist, I can see some hope for optimism.

I have a feeling the US may start to take Bangladesh more seriously going forward. (For their own needs of course)

And if Bangladesh is smart, perhaps it can leverage this for more access to Western arms at favorable terms.


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> To tell you the truth, I think there is something going on behind the scenes where its not status quo anymore in terms of source of procurement.
> 
> So I would just give it some time and see where the chips fall.
> 
> Personally, as a pessimist, I can see some hope for optimism.
> 
> I have a feeling the US may start to take Bangladesh more seriously going forward. (For their own needs of course)
> 
> And if Bangladesh is smart, perhaps it can leverage this for more access to Western arms at favorable terms.


BD was considered as Chinese side kick by the western strategist. After the Rohingya crisis that speculation should go away and better military contacts should develop with the western countries.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Durte has balls to talk straight and bomb terrorists. Bangladeshi politicians don't have balls and lead by menopause lady.
> Please rename this thread to Bangladesh Air Guard. Other two threads can be renamed to UN peacekeeping police and second hand littoral border police respectively.
> Basically let me understand @Michael Corleone you asked for 8× MRCA and specify fighter jet with western Avionics and radar then buy 8x Yak instead of MRCA.
> Then obviously your Air Guard is lead by bounce of A$$ Holes.


It was previously planned to buy total of 24 of them... 3 crashed... one will be paid for because of FBW failure. The other two are still being investigated
Why do you have hypoxia of your asshole with what a bunch of morons do in S.A. ?
Procurement plans are still underway. Preparation of high performance fighter is necessary first...



Nilgiri said:


> Warranty has fine print that has to show the fault lies with provider and not the user. So we need to see the clear evidence that Yakolev accepted fault.


That I agree with you. The Russian experts have accepted fault of the first crash and the other two crashes are still under investigation


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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> The Russian experts have accepted fault of the first crash



Can I get a source on this? Thanks.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> It was previously planned to buy total of 24 of them... 3 crashed... one will be paid for because of FBW failure. The other two are still being investigated
> Why do you have hypoxia of your asshole with what a bunch of morons do in S.A. ?
> Procurement plans are still underway. Preparation of high performance fighter is necessary first...
> 
> 
> That I agree with you. The Russian experts have accepted fault of the first crash and the other two crashes are still under investigation


I think you should stop barking at the members at PDF. You wake up with hangover then blame American, Indian, Chinese and Russian for your failure. Find a new blame game boy!

I don't think any Air Force need precursors to buy Aircraft unless you are an Air Guard. I have a very good advice for you, instead of spending money on military, spend that money on contraception that will be helpful for your country.

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## polanski

Saddam Hussien said:


> how about you stfu and mind your own business


We have ousted you long time ago in Iraq. Is this reincarnation of an evil dictator who used gas on his own people. 
I am minding my own business actually. We donate lot of money in Bangladesh. I have my say at your business. Don't ask anything from Excess Defense Article.

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## Destranator

polanski said:


> We have ousted you long time ago in Iraq. Is this reincarnation of an evil dictator who used gas on his own people.
> I am minding my own business actually. We donate lot of money in Bangladesh. I have my say at your business. Don't ask anything from Excess Defense Article.


Beruni, you're not even American. 

Learn English before lecturing here on EDA.

Just piss off.

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## The Ronin

Since when America donates money to BAF or other major part of the military?? Go cry to those places where your donation actually goes. We can live without your bunch of Metal Shark boats, 40 years old junk cutters and money and assistance in anti-terrorism training. Whatever "right" you had is gone now. So take Saddam's advice and keep your stinky mouth shut. This moron is acting like his country's ambassador here, poking nose in every thing where they don't actually have any right to say anything. 

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/foreign-affairs/2017/05/25/us-cut-funding-bangladesh


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> We have ousted you long time ago in Iraq. Is this reincarnation of an evil dictator who used gas on his own people.
> I am minding my own business actually. We donate lot of money in Bangladesh. I have my say at your business. Don't ask anything from Excess Defense Article.



Now your just being weird.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> I think you should stop barking at the members at PDF. You wake up with hangover then blame American, Indian, Chinese and Russian for your failure. Find a new blame game boy!
> 
> I don't think any Air Force need precursors to buy Aircraft unless you are an Air Guard. I have a very good advice for you, instead of spending money on military, spend that money on contraception that will be helpful for your country.


If anyone is barking in this forum... it’s you. Didn’t blame anyone so stop speaking out of your *** stank...
And if there’s any need of contraception it’s your “claimed” country... abortion as a form of birth control is a choice here unlike yours. 


polanski said:


> We have ousted you long time ago in Iraq. Is this reincarnation of an evil dictator who used gas on his own people.
> I am minding my own business actually. We donate lot of money in Bangladesh. I have my say at your business. Don't ask anything from Excess Defense Article.


Seriously I would love to smoke the weed you’re smoking.

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## polanski

Saddam Hussien said:


> if terrorist groups like taliban and isis can fight without airforce than why not bangladesh which has a professional army and navy but small airforce.


So you are comparing Bangladesh Military with terrorists groups. That makes sense for Bangladesh. Afterall you are a Muslim and idolized a dictator. Good to know, You have found your mojo.

You are as nutcase as your countrymen like the Al Pacino guy in this forum who blames Donald Trump for Bangladesh Air Guard's MRCA hoax.



Michael Corleone said:


> If anyone is barking in this forum... it’s you. Didn’t blame anyone so stop speaking out of your *** stank...
> And if there’s any need of contraception it’s your “claimed” country... abortion as a form of birth control is a choice here unlike yours.
> 
> Seriously I would love to smoke the weed you’re smoking.


Can you explain why did you posted photo of Al Pacino on your profile if you dislikes America so much? Is it the effect of methamphetamine or yabba?

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Geography is _Kader_ - Ibni Haldun

What a geography BD is located, and how ill prepared she is!!!! Looks like too many constraints are working on her!!! Even with money at hand it's difficult to procure aircrafts of choice....

Hopefully, some Muslim countries will come forward to help her in developing a good defense/offence capability....

If you're a Muslim country and you don't have proper defense capabilities and you're not ready to die, you're as good as dead!!! Thus the necessity for the unity is taught....

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## The Ronin

All in one.

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর প্রায় সব বিমান (২০১৪ সালের) একই ফ্রেমে।এই ছবিতে C-130B,An-32,F-7BG,F-7MB,F-7BGI,MiG-29SE & UB,L-39ZA,A-5III, PT-6 সবই আছে (তখনো বাংলাদেশ K-8w, L-410 এবং Yak-130 এর ডেলিভারি পায় নি)।

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Can you explain why did you posted photo of Al Pacino on your profile if you dislikes America so much? Is it the effect of methamphetamine or yabba?


and how did you formulate your opinion of my supposed hatred of america/? and if you don't understand the reason i have al pacino's photo on my profile... then good luck coming off as an legitimate american to others.... brooklyn slum dweller!



The Ronin said:


> All in one.
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর প্রায় সব বিমান (২০১৪ সালের) একই ফ্রেমে।এই ছবিতে C-130B,An-32,F-7BG,F-7MB,F-7BGI,MiG-29SE & UB,L-39ZA,A-5III, PT-6 সবই আছে (তখনো বাংলাদেশ K-8w, L-410 এবং Yak-130 এর ডেলিভারি পায় নি)।


these must be all the pilots combined?


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> and how did you formulate your opinion of my supposed hatred of america/? and if you don't understand the reason i have al pacino's photo on my profile... then good luck coming off as an legitimate american to others.... brooklyn slum dweller!
> 
> 
> these must be all the pilots combined?


The main problem of Bangladesh is that all Bangladeshi have American dream but they cannot have it hence they say America is bad. Once Bangladeshis are in America then they forget what was like in Bangladesh.

Look at your political, military and Financial elite who live in America, UK and Australia then talk trash about America. This is the biggest hypocrisy I have ever seen. 

And you specifically who idolized Al Pacino to hide his Slumdog face. The entire Bangladesh is a slum.
Have you ever seen Google Earth, check out Bangladeshi Airbases. How horrible conditions are they? If you're not stealing money then at least you have fixed these horrible runways, shelters and infrastructure.
Let me tell you the truth why Bangladesh does not buy fighter jet because you don't have any infrastructure to support it and you don't have pilots to fly it. You are still using civilian air traffic control to communicate. So stop your political rant and go back to bdmilitary forum where you buy fighter jet every weekend.

Keep downloading YouTube video, edit it and claim that Bangladesh bought it. Confirmed this or Confirmed that. Keep doing it.


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> The main problem of Bangladesh is that all Bangladeshi have American dream but they cannot have it hence they say America is bad. Once Bangladeshis are in America then they forget what was like in Bangladesh.
> 
> Look at your political, military and Financial elite who live in America, UK and Australia then talk trash about America. This is the biggest hypocrisy I have ever seen.
> 
> And you specifically who idolized Al Pacino to hide his Slumdog face. The entire Bangladesh is a slum.
> Have you ever seen Google Earth, check out Bangladeshi Airbases. How horrible conditions are they? If you're not stealing money then at least you have fixed these horrible runways, shelters and infrastructure.
> Let me tell you the truth why Bangladesh does not buy fighter jet because you don't have any infrastructure to support it and you don't have pilots to fly it. You are still using civilian air traffic control to communicate. So stop your political rant and go back to bdmilitary forum where you buy fighter jet every weekend.
> 
> Keep downloading YouTube video, edit it and claim that Bangladesh bought it. Confirmed this or Confirmed that. Keep doing it.



WTF is wrong with you? There are alot of Bangladeshi immigrants THRIVING in the US.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> The main problem of Bangladesh is that all Bangladeshi have American dream but they cannot have it hence they say America is bad. Once Bangladeshis are in America then they forget what was like in Bangladesh.
> 
> Look at your political, military and Financial elite who live in America, UK and Australia then talk trash about America. This is the biggest hypocrisy I have ever seen.
> 
> And you specifically who idolized Al Pacino to hide his Slumdog face. The entire Bangladesh is a slum.
> Have you ever seen Google Earth, check out Bangladeshi Airbases. How horrible conditions are they? If you're not stealing money then at least you have fixed these horrible runways, shelters and infrastructure.
> Let me tell you the truth why Bangladesh does not buy fighter jet because you don't have any infrastructure to support it and you don't have pilots to fly it. You are still using civilian air traffic control to communicate. So stop your political rant and go back to bdmilitary forum where you buy fighter jet every weekend.
> 
> Keep downloading YouTube video, edit it and claim that Bangladesh bought it. Confirmed this or Confirmed that. Keep doing it.


well, i never had the american dream... kuwaiti dream however sounds better... nothing beats the scent of dinar...

as for me hiding my "slumdog face" would love to see your smug, i wonder why such a stud like you would waste his time trolling in internet instead of getting laid...
have you ever been to any of the airbases? stop speaking out of your ***...
out air traffic control is operated by the airforce members... so military working in civilian operations so do some research before who start with your fartmachine.

and stop worrying about bangladesh, worry about gun shooting, birth control, abortion and the dollar that is bound to crash in the future...

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> well, i never had the american dream... kuwaiti dream however sounds better... nothing beats the scent of dinar...
> 
> as for me hiding my "slumdog face" would love to see your smug, i wonder why such a stud like you would waste his time trolling in internet instead of getting laid...
> have you ever been to any of the airbases? stop speaking out of your ***...
> out air traffic control is operated by the airforce members... so military working in civilian operations so do some research before who start with your fartmachine.
> 
> and stop worrying about bangladesh, worry about gun shooting, birth control, abortion and the dollar that is bound to crash in the future...



This guy is a recent immigrant at best. His English is terrible.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Avicenna said:


> This guy is a recent immigrant at best. His English is terrible.


US accepts immigrant without IELTS?


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## Michael Corleone

Flynn Swagmire said:


> US accepts immigrant without IELTS?


Apparently they accept toilet cleaners with qualifications to troll on the internet and act American.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> This guy is a recent immigrant at best. His English is terrible.


Use the forum's search function to find and read *araberuni7*'s posts. It will lead you to polanski's real life ID.


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## Allah Akbar

Avicenna said:


> This guy is a recent immigrant at best. His English is terrible.


He is more like a leguna driver . His mouth has no licence but desperate to deliver shitz

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## Bengal Tiger 71

BD military.com share BAF cocluded their MRCA procurement process, they submitted report to PMO. which aircraft BAF want to buy any body knows about this report?


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## The Ronin

Squadron & Arm patch of new "Squadron-105 AJTU"

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর নবগঠিত 105 AJTU "The Trident" এর স্কোয়াড্রন প্যাচ এবং আর্ম প্যাচ।রাশিয়ার নির্মিত Yakolev Yak-130 Advance Jet Trainer গুলো এখন এই স্কোয়াড্রনের অধীনে পরিচালিত হচ্ছে।

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## TopCat

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BD military.com share BAF cocluded their MRCA procurement process, they submitted report to PMO. which aircraft BAF want to buy any body knows about this report?


Due to Trump they cant buy Sukui series that I can say. 
Bdmilitiary is hoax anyways. So chill and think about St. Martin for now..

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Due to Trump they cant buy Sukui series that I can say.
> Bdmilitiary is hoax anyways. So chill and think about St. Martin for now..



Very good as it will force BAF to go Western.
@Avicenna


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## Destranator

TopCat said:


> Due to Trump they cant buy Sukui series that I can say.
> Bdmilitiary is hoax anyways. So chill and think about St. Martin for now..


Bdmilitary has been "concluding" BAF's MRCA procurement once a month for the last 5 years.

I am skeptical of any Russian jets being procured in the near future thanks to Markin nishedhagga.

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## Tanveer666

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BD military.com share BAF cocluded their MRCA procurement process, they submitted report to PMO. which aircraft BAF want to buy any body knows about this report?


The only way to know is when we take delivery of them.

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## Roybot

Bangladesh should go for either F-16s or Gripen. Its a no brainer really.

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## Tanveer666

Nilgiri said:


> They need lot more yaks first....a good song when they play marbles with them like last time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to see you buddy!


Hey, long tine no see.



Roybot said:


> Bangladesh should go for either F-16s or Gripen. Its a no brainer really.


Too bad the amerikanskis won't give them to us.

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## Nilgiri

Tanveer666 said:


> Hey, long tine no see.
> 
> 
> Too bad the amerikanskis won't give them to us.



You sticking around? (i.e should I start tagging you) or just passing by again?

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## Tanveer666

Nilgiri said:


> You sticking around? (i.e should I start tagging you) or just passing by again?


Sure, why not!

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## muhammadali233

The Ronin said:


> All in one.
> 
> বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর প্রায় সব বিমান (২০১৪ সালের) একই ফ্রেমে।এই ছবিতে C-130B,An-32,F-7BG,F-7MB,F-7BGI,MiG-29SE & UB,L-39ZA,A-5III, PT-6 সবই আছে (তখনো বাংলাদেশ K-8w, L-410 এবং Yak-130 এর ডেলিভারি পায় নি)।


thats is all i guess


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## TopCat

Roybot said:


> Bangladesh should go for either F-16s or Gripen. Its a no brainer really.


BD already source J-10 for single engine version. We are talking about heavy fighter for maritime strike here.


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## LKJ86

TopCat said:


> BD already source J-10 for single engine version.


Are you sure? J-10C?


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## TopCat

LKJ86 said:


> Are you sure? J-10C?


That is what everybody saying.


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## Roybot

TopCat said:


> BD already source J-10 for single engine version. We are talking about heavy fighter for maritime strike here.



China will never sell J-10s to Bangladesh.

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## LKJ86

Roybot said:


> China will never sell J-10s to Bangladesh.


Why not?


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## Roybot

LKJ86 said:


> Why not?



J-10s are the main stay of PLAAF and will be the next 10-15 years. China would prefer to keep the capabilities of this platform a secret. Anything BAF has/will have, is and will be an open book for India and USA. Bangladeshis will deny this, but that is the truth.



TopCat said:


> Because @Roybot is jello to his wife.. He looks poor compared to his BD wife.
> Not sure she is still with him.. !! most unlikely though.



Pathetic little Bangladeshi, why do you always act like a cunt? Two people are having a civilized conversation, but you have to come and shit with your jaahil mouth.

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## LKJ86

Roybot said:


> Anything BAF has/will have, is and will be an open book for India and USA.


Can you give me an example?


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## Roybot

LKJ86 said:


> Can you give me an example?



No of course not. You can't expect such examples to be out in the open surely!

Bottom line is, China will not sell anything cutting edge to any country and risk its capabilities getting exposed. This is the one of the strongest points of Chinese weapon systems, they are relatively unknown and enemies have to keep guessing just how capable Chinese weapons are.

Your country would prefer to keep this advantage. This is also the reason why China always has a second line of weapon systems specifically designed and manufactured for export to other countries.

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## Bilal9

Roybot said:


> J-10s are the main stay of PLAAF and will be the next 10-15 years. China would prefer to keep the capabilities of this platform a secret. Anything BAF has/will have, is and will be an open book for India and USA. Bangladeshis will deny this, but that is the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetic little Bangladeshi, why do you always act like a cunt? Two people are having a civilized conversation, but you have to come and shit with your jaahil mouth.



Ha ha ha - Dada got triggered...

Take a chill pill, this is just a forum.....

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## Roybot

Bilal9 said:


> Ha ha ha - Dada got triggered...
> 
> Take a chill pill, this is just a forum.....



Why on earth would I get triggered, its just unnecessary to involve someone's personal life into all this. I am a well wisher of Bangladesh, and want nothing but good for Bangladesh. 

P.S: Am not a Bengali, not sure if that is why you are calling me Dada. I would rather prefer Bhai/Vai.


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## Michael Corleone

Roybot said:


> Anything BAF has/will have, is and will be an open book for India and USA. Bangladeshis will deny this, but that is the truth.


I disagree strongly. The military never liked India, never will imo... they’re just to suspicious to involve India in anything other than a yearly excercise

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## UKBengali

Roybot said:


> No of course not. You can't expect such examples to be out in the open surely!
> 
> Bottom line is, China will not sell anything cutting edge to any country and risk its capabilities getting exposed. This is the one of the strongest points of Chinese weapon systems, they are relatively unknown and enemies have to keep guessing just how capable Chinese weapons are.
> 
> Your country would prefer to keep this advantage. This is also the reason why China always has a second line of weapon systems specifically designed and manufactured for export to other countries.






China would dearly love to sell J-10C version and their most advanced frigate tech to BD.
BD seems like it is not interested in the frigate tech(most likely will go with an EU design) but the J-10C will almost certainly be purchased to be used against India if required.

By "cutting-edge" you probably mean stuff like Type-052D destroyer, Type-055 Cruiser, latest long-range SAMs and J-20 fighter etc.
Also we can of course take out nuclear weapons and stuff like SSNs and SSBNs, although some Chinese posters think that China may sell BD the improved Type-093SSN if BD asks.



Roybot said:


> J-10s are the main stay of PLAAF and will be the next 10-15 years. China would prefer to keep the capabilities of this platform a secret. Anything BAF has/will have, is and will be an open book for India and USA. Bangladeshis will deny this, but that is the truth.




It is your opinion that BD will give away J-10 tech to India and or USA. Think about it this way, BD military has not purchase a single bullet from India yet.

J-10 can be exported as the J-20 is in service. Anyway China may not export it's own J-10C version but make a customised version which will have different type of radar(although not necessarily inferior) and EW systems. This means that even if BD betrayed the tech to a 3rd party, China's national security is not massively affected.


@wanglaokan
@Chinese-Dragon
@ChineseTiger1986

Can you guys provide your thoughts on this matter?


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## TopCat

Roybot said:


> No of course not. You can't expect such examples to be out in the open surely!
> 
> Bottom line is, China will not sell anything cutting edge to any country and risk its capabilities getting exposed. This is the one of the strongest points of Chinese weapon systems, they are relatively unknown and enemies have to keep guessing just how capable Chinese weapons are.
> 
> Your country would prefer to keep this advantage. This is also the reason why China always has a second line of weapon systems specifically designed and manufactured for export to other countries.


If they are afraid of stealing the tech they can always omit that from export version. That is why every country have a export version for their product when it comes to defense. 
BD is the 2nd largest buyer of Chinese weapons. Most of the high tech they sold came to BD.


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## Roybot

UKBengali said:


> China would dearly love to sell J-10C version and their most advanced frigate tech to BD.
> BD seems like it is not interested in the frigate tech(most likely will go with an EU design) but the J-10C will almost certainly be purchased to be used against India if required.
> 
> By "cutting-edge" you probably mean stuff like Type-052D destroyer, Type-055 Cruiser, latest long-range SAMs and J-20 fighter etc.
> Also we can of course take out nuclear weapons and stuff like SSNs and SSBNs, although some Chinese posters think that China may sell BD the improved Type-093SSN if BD asks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is your opinion that BD will give away J-10 tech to India and or USA. Think about it this way, BD military has not purchase a single bullet from India yet.
> 
> J-10 can be exported as the J-20 is in service. Anyway China may not export it's own J-10C version but make a customised version which will have different type of radar(although not necessarily inferior) and EW systems. This means that even if BD betrayed the tech to a 3rd party, China's national security is not massively affected.
> 
> 
> @wanglaokan
> @Chinese-Dragon
> @ChineseTiger1986
> 
> Can you guys provide your thoughts on this matter?



Of course it is just my mere opinion based on observation, none of us here are policy makers exactly! 

J-10 will be exported maybe 10-15 years down the line, but as long it operates as PLAAF's primary interceptor they would rather keep its capabilities a secret.



TopCat said:


> If they are afraid of stealing the tech they can always omit that from export version. That is why every country have a export version for their product when it comes to defense.
> BD is the 2nd largest buyer of Chinese weapons. Most of the high tech they sold came to BD.



Its not about tech so much, its more to do with what this fighter is capable of in the air.

Of course Bangladesh buys a lot of Chinese weapons, as do a lot of other countries. That is why Chinese have a separate range of products especially meant for export. None of what China sells to Bangladesh is its front line weapon.

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## TopCat

Roybot said:


> Its not about tech so much, its more to do with what this fighter is capable of in the air.
> 
> Of course Bangladesh buys a lot of Chinese weapons, as do a lot of other countries. That is why Chinese have a separate range of products especially meant for export. None of what China sells to Bangladesh is its front line weapon.


What are the front line weapons chinese sells to other country that will not be sold to BD? 
J-10C is not a export restricted weapon and is show cased in various air show as a sellable item.
@wanglaokan @LKJ86


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## LKJ86

Roybot said:


> Of course it is just my mere opinion based on observation, none of us here are policy makers exactly!
> 
> J-10 will be exported maybe 10-15 years down the line, but as long it operates as PLAAF's primary interceptor they would rather keep its capabilities a secret.


J-10/FC-20 has got the export permission, and trained with Thailand's JAS-39 in 2017 and 2018.

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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> What are the front line weapons chinese sells to other country that will not be sold to BD?
> J-10C is not a export restricted weapon and is show cased in various air show as a sellable item.
> @wanglaokan @LKJ86


how is the J10 deal going? i m eager to wait for it.


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## LKJ86

TopCat said:


> What are the front line weapons chinese sells to other country that will not be sold to BD?


If you can pay for it, you can get what you want.
For instance, Saudi Arabia has bought DF-3 and DF-21 ballistic missiles.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> BD seems like it is not interested in the frigate tech(most likely will go with an EU design) but the J-10C will almost certainly be purchased to be used against India if required.


was, until china demanded part ownerships of naval yards in bangladesh.... which is why frigate program stalled.... now it's open to everyone....


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> was, until china demanded part ownerships of naval yards in bangladesh.... which is why frigate program stalled.... now it's open to everyone....




Whatever it is, looks like it will not go with China now.

Makes sense to go for EU design as BD needs to reduce dependence on China.

The only large order I can see that BD will make with China now is some squadrons(2-3) of a BD version of J-10C.
After that, nada.

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## mb444

China will sell J10 to BD without any issue....although it will be the export version.

The US wont be particularly interested as China still has a fair way to go challenging the west in military technology. Even if they were BD will not share.

As with India, it is the usual hindutva wet dream that BD will share its military secret with its biggest enemy and pi**ing off its primary source of military hardware.

Too much bovine urine leads to such nonsense.



UKBengali said:


> Whatever it is, looks like it will not go with China now.
> 
> Makes sense to go for EU design as BD needs to reduce dependence on China.
> 
> The only large order I can see that BD will make with China now is some squadrons(2-3) of a BD version of J-10C.
> After that, nada.




BD will progressively diversify where it buys military hardware from, but I fully expect China to remain our primary military partner for the simple reason we share a common enemy.

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## LKJ86

mb444 said:


> we share a common enemy


I agree.


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## Nilgiri

LKJ86 said:


> Can you give me an example?



You can simply wait and see reality bear out. @Chinese-Dragon made some very good analysis earlier about why China provided very old training subs to BD...and that is about the most BD can expect from China now onwards (esp with the whole Myanmar thing going on + BD overreliance on Indian diplomatic buffer).

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> You can simply wait and see reality bear out. @Chinese-Dragon made some very good analysis earlier about why China provided very old training subs to BD...and that is about the most BD can expect from China now onwards (esp with the whole Myanmar thing going on + BD overreliance on Indian diplomatic buffer).




Duh - BN did not have the funds to buy more expensive Chinese modern subs.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Duh - BN did not have the funds to buy more expensive Chinese modern subs.



@Chinese-Dragon took that into account too. There is nothing of high-tech forefront value that China will offer to BD from onset (funds or no funds)....not without BD massive change in BD attitude and current geopolitical dependency on Chinese opponents (further exacerbated by Myanmar/Rohingya)....not to mention inherent lack of strategic space within BD to protect any Chinese high-tech (say any actual C4I infra, top tier missiles, high value assets like J-10)...and possibly even mid-tech (given the numbers employed within China regarding those) here on out.

But of course, everyone can watch for themselves what China even offers to BD here on out. BD likely will go to Europe/US to meet any requirements there in coming years....as funds become available (given CAATSA on Russia).

@Michael Corleone @Avicenna @Anubis what is your take on it?

@dy1022 @Feng Leng @TaiShang

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> @Chinese-Dragon took that into account too. There is nothing of high-tech forefront value that China will offer to BD from onset (funds or no funds)....not without BD massive change in BD attitude and current geopolitical dependency on Chinese opponents (further exacerbated by Myanmar/Rohingya)....not to mention inherent lack of strategic space within BD to protect any Chinese high-tech (say any actual C4I infra, top tier missiles, high value assets like J-10)...and possibly even mid-tech (given the numbers employed within China regarding those) here on out.
> 
> But of course, everyone can watch for themselves what China even offers to BD here on out. BD likely will go to Europe/US to meet any requirements there in coming years....as funds become available (given CAATSA on Russia).
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Avicenna @Anubis what is your take on it?
> 
> @dy1022 @Feng Leng @TaiShang




So @Chinese-Dragon is now the defence minister of China? 

Dude, we know you are butt-hurt at BD but now this is going to another level.

Like I say a version of the J-10C is highly likely to be brought and maybe submarines. After this nothing major is likely. 

BD has decided to diversify away from China now both for economic and political reasons. Turkey is another factor now and as their defence industry starts pumping out world-class products, they will be the No. 1 go to defence supplier for Muslim countries like BD.

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## The Ronin

*WILL CHINA CLEAR THE CAC J-10B FOR EXPORT?*
Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) is offering a static display of its J-10B multi-role fighter at the Zhuhai Air Show, which is taking place this week.

In addition to the fighter, many new and existing air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions were also being shown alongside the People Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF)’s emerging mainstay fighter.

It does not appear that Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) branded placards are near the J-10B, but it is possible that this fighter could be ready for export in the short-term. Currently, only the J-10A – under the designation FC-20 – is available for export.

It is not clear to what extent the changes to the J-10’s airframe is sensitive in the view of the PLAAF, though the subsystems – i.e. active electronically-scanned array radar and electronic warfare (EW) and electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite – should be of more concern.

However, with the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET) showcasing an overtly export-centric AESA radar for the JF-17, it appears that the Chinese are in the position to release their next-generation subsystems to the market without risking their national security interests.

AVIC will not need to compete on pure performance, but rather, on the reality that it is offering capable solutions with current technologies at an affordable price. An export version of the J-10B would benefit from layers of economies-of-scale thanks to China’s expansive domestic market.

For example, the J-10 platform is the mainstay multi-role fighter platform of the PLAAF. At this stage, the research and development overhead will have been heavily distributed, resulting in a thin added cost to the prospective export-customer (on top of the cost of labour and materials).

It is the same case for the AESA radar and ECM/EW technology onboard the J-10B. The development of these subsystems is not tied to the J-10B but is, in fact, relevant to many applications, including solutions on land and at sea. If not already, the Chinese will be scale this technology expansively, once again putting subsystems from NRIET et. al on a favourable cost footing.

With the next-generation FC-31 being offered for export, it is curious that the J-10B has yet to enter AVIC’s portfolio. Clearly, the Chinese are not hesitant to release their AESA radar and newer EW/ECM technology, lest they would not be offering the FC-31.

In contrast to the FC-31, which has yet to secure backing (much fewer orders) from the PLAAF or People Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), the J-10B is a complete, adopted, and production ready fighter.

Access to the J-10B does not necessitate a separate investment in research and development (which is the case for the FC-31), and the J-10B already carries industry contemporary subsystems.

For an air force in need of a mature medium-weight fighter platform with qualitative drivers today, such as an AESA radar, the J-10B is more attractive than the FC-31. It is a tangible product.

One can point to Pakistan, but in addition, this fighter could readily attract a wider pool of countries that simply would not have access to the market’s existing AESA radar-equipped medium-weight fighters. The Zhuk-AME-equipped MiG-35 is essentially the only other option for countries such as Algeria or Iran.

The CAC J-10B has potential to secure sales in the short-term, which could be AVIC’s ticket to increase its relevance in the global fighter market.

https://quwa.org/2016/11/02/will-china-clear-cac-j-10b-export/

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Like I say a version of the J-10C is highly likely



Yah we know how "likely" your predictions are lol. BD will shoot down the next MM AF violator 100%!....and reality plays out as usual! 

@Aung Zaya @polanski 

Everyone can actually see for themselves what pans out in the end here too is all I am saying. We have seen the 1000 page long threads obliviating and celebrating and STRONKING before in BD section havent we? @Imran Khan @Game.Invade @DESERT FIGHTER ....and in the end reality (big fat dunce) transpires there too all too frequently. It sort of illustrates what BD is to everyone better than anything else ever could haha.

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## AMG_12

Nilgiri said:


> Yah we know how "likely" your predictions are lol. BD will shoot down the next MM AF violator 100%!....and reality plays out as usual!
> 
> @Aung Zaya @polanski
> 
> Everyone can actually see for themselves what pans out in the end here too is all I am saying. We have seen the 1000 page long threads obliviating and celebrating and STRONKING before in BD section havent we? @Imran Khan @Game.Invade @DESERT FIGHTER ....and in the end reality (big fat dunce) transpires there too all too frequently. It sort of illustrates what BD is to everyone better than anything else ever could haha.


LOL, it's funny how they fall for all the crap from BDmilitary but question credibility of other posters. All they gon get is more secondhand J7s. When the world moves to 6th Gen, BD gonna get 4th gen fighters, always 2 gen behind the civilised world.

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## Bilal9

I don't honestly see Chinese sharing their primary 'numbers' fighter technology (J-10B) with Bangladesh, where it is wide open to observation by RAW agents. It is a matter of official policy.

In any case, BAF has had air-force level personnel exchanges with Turkey at all levels since the 1970's, which has only gotten stronger due to mutual interest. Same with army and navy equipment as well. This will keep happening regardless of Western offers/efforts to equip our armed forces.

China is a reliable military ally to us. However no country puts its eggs in one basket in these sort of relationships.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Nilgiri said:


> Yah we know how "likely" your predictions are lol. BD will shoot down the next MM AF violator 100%!....and reality plays out as usual!
> 
> @Aung Zaya @polanski
> 
> Everyone can actually see for themselves what pans out in the end here too is all I am saying. We have seen the 1000 page long threads obliviating and celebrating and STRONKING before in BD section havent we? @Imran Khan @Game.Invade @DESERT FIGHTER ....and in the end reality (big fat dunce) transpires there too all too frequently. It sort of illustrates what BD is to everyone better than anything else ever could haha.


If I got a penny everytime joy bangla party posted "news" and mil gear in BD military thread... I'd almost be a millionaire.

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> @Chinese-Dragon took that into account too. There is nothing of high-tech forefront value that China will offer to BD from onset (funds or no funds)....not without BD massive change in BD attitude and current geopolitical dependency on Chinese opponents (further exacerbated by Myanmar/Rohingya)....not to mention inherent lack of strategic space within BD to protect any Chinese high-tech (say any actual C4I infra, top tier missiles, high value assets like J-10)...and possibly even mid-tech (given the numbers employed within China regarding those) here on out.
> 
> But of course, everyone can watch for themselves what China even offers to BD here on out. BD likely will go to Europe/US to meet any requirements there in coming years....as funds become available (given CAATSA on Russia).
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Avicenna @Anubis what is your take on it?
> 
> @dy1022 @Feng Leng @TaiShang



The truth is none of us really know what the hell is going on.

I think if we look at history as any kind of guide, clearly Bangladesh has been a customer of Chinese arms.

I don't think China sees Bangladesh as some sort of security risk and at the same time I don't think China will offer Bangaldesh access to anything more advanced than they would another traditional client such as say Sudan.

I really don't see any barrier to Bangaldesh purchasing something such as FC-20 aka J-10A as this is clearly available for export. Also its 20 years old at this point and no where near being cutting edge Chinese technology.

The real issue is that I think the procurement equation has changed somewhat given the recent events.

Bangladesh was really diplomatically isolated with this whole Rohingya debacle.

Both China and India had their own interests in mind which ran counter to those of Bangladesh despite all the sweet talk after the fact.

That being said, I agree with you that I think Bangladesh will look more towards the West at this point. 

What that actaully translates into who knows.

Also, dealing with the West has its own set of pitfalls which I think Bangladesh will find out with time.

However, at this point, it has to take its security seriously for the first time in its existence.

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## Michael Corleone

Nilgiri said:


> @Chinese-Dragon took that into account too. There is nothing of high-tech forefront value that China will offer to BD from onset (funds or no funds)....not without BD massive change in BD attitude and current geopolitical dependency on Chinese opponents (further exacerbated by Myanmar/Rohingya)....not to mention inherent lack of strategic space within BD to protect any Chinese high-tech (say any actual C4I infra, top tier missiles, high value assets like J-10)...and possibly even mid-tech (given the numbers employed within China regarding those) here on out.
> 
> But of course, everyone can watch for themselves what China even offers to BD here on out. BD likely will go to Europe/US to meet any requirements there in coming years....as funds become available (given CAATSA on Russia).
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Avicenna @Anubis what is your take on it?
> 
> @dy1022 @Feng Leng @TaiShang


China expects bd to be like Sri Lanka... 

There will be military level talks between Russia and bd on December 3-8 regarding purchase of new weapons.... on the table are, SAMs to protect the nuclear plant... BTR 80s, more yak-130s, T-90s and MRCA

Idk how they expect to get this deal through without pissing off the orange cucumber

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> China expects bd to be like Sri Lanka...
> 
> There will be military level talks between Russia and bd on December 3-8 regarding purchase of new weapons.... on the table are, SAMs to protect the nuclear plant... BTR 80s, more yak-130s, T-90s and MRCA
> 
> Idk how they expect to get this deal through without pissing off the orange cucumber



The orange cucumber couldnt care less about Bangladesh.


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## Aung Zaya

Nilgiri said:


> Yah we know how "likely" your predictions are lol. BD will shoot down the next MM AF violator 100%!....and reality plays out as usual!
> 
> @Aung Zaya @polanski
> 
> Everyone can actually see for themselves what pans out in the end here too is all I am saying. We have seen the 1000 page long threads obliviating and celebrating and STRONKING before in BD section havent we? @Imran Khan @Game.Invade @DESERT FIGHTER ....and in the end reality (big fat dunce) transpires there too all too frequently. It sort of illustrates what BD is to everyone better than anything else ever could haha.


i can still remember that just a few days ago BDshi here said Chinese military hardwares are not qualified for their standand and seeking the western high-quality ones instead so that they can reduce dependance on China as China didnt stand with them in regarding with current immigration crisis. now they wanted again J-10C.

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## UKBengali

Aung Zaya said:


> i can still remember that just a few days ago BDshi here said Chinese military hardwares are not qualified for their standand and seeking the western high-quality ones instead so that they can reduce dependance on China as China didnt stand with them in regarding with current immigration crisis. now they wanted again J-10C.



Unless the J-10 comes with AESA and up to date electronics, BAF simply will not buy it.
Up to China whether they are interested in selling around 30-40 fighter jets to BD. This is good money making and marketing opportunity for them to make their first export sale.
BD economy is booming and defence budget can certainly afford 2-3 squadrons of J-10s from China over the next 2-3 years.

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## tarpitz

Aung Zaya said:


> i can still remember that just a few days ago BDshi here said Chinese military hardwares are not qualified for their standand and seeking the western high-quality ones instead so that they can reduce dependance on China as China didnt stand with them in regarding with current immigration crisis. now they wanted again J-10C. [emoji38][emoji38]


Let them keep dreaming. [emoji3][emoji16]

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force is working on building its infrastructure at this stage. The work will be completed before deliveries of new fighter aircraft start in 2020. Shamshernagar, Barisal, Cox's Bazar and Sylhet are earmarked for massive construction works. As we already know a forward base in Cox's Bazar is under construction and . There is probably something happening in Ctg too. The aircraft shelters are of different design, better protected and of course cool looking assets. Probably those will be Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS) or Protective Aircraft Shelter (PAS). প্রাথমিকভাবে কক্সবাজার,চট্টগ্রাম, বরিশাল ও সিলেটের শমশেরনগরে চীনের সাহায্য নিয়ে এবং ঢাকা ও চট্টগ্রামে যুক্তরাজ্যের একটি কোম্পানি নির্মান করবে বলে শোনা যাচ্ছে।

There's also talk about AF receiving advanced aerospace simulators for aerospace medicine section. The advanced simulators from EU will help pilots to deal with effects from spatial disorientation, simulation of vestibular system, simulation of adverse weather conditions and so on. Check previous thread for photos.

BAF also issued tender 20X 6 tonnes truck for various roles to be delivered in short notice. The model selected for the procurement is Isuzu FTS33l from Japan . It must carry 3 personnel in the front compartment and 20 troops in the back. We are assuming it would be for transportation of base protection troops, equipment and keeping up with the supplies. The trucks are cross country capable. They will be supplied in CBU form by Uttara Motors.

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/2566.pdf

Tender for 6 ton 4x4 towing tractor for C-130.

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2535.pdf

Bangladesh Air Force issued tenders for 2X AC Bus (to be used as squadron coaster for pilots mainly) to be delivered within mid 2019 the shortlisted buses include Nissan Ja452s(Japanese), Hyundai Express Noble (South Korean) and Volvo 9400 b11r (with Malaysian body) .

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/2558.pdf

Another interesting buy is the Air Force getting its own ambulances. 4x Japanese ambulance are to be brought at the same time frame. The models shortlisted are Toyota Hiace LH202R and Nissan Urvan ambulance with high roof model LWS4RDFE25DW3 . Both are around 3000cc.

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2559.pdf

Lastly but not the least a tender has been issued for 1x Mark Lifter (man lifter ) to be supplied from to be used to work on C-130 air craft . The countries eligible to bid are US , UK , Germany , EU countries and Japan.

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/2557.pdf

Source- DGDP, DTB and BD Military



Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> BD military.com share BAF cocluded their MRCA procurement process



That was about the 8 MRCA with maritime strike capability. Negotiation is done. Deal will be signed after election in 2019.



Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> they submitted report to PMO. which aircraft BAF want to buy any body knows about this report?



This was about a heavy MRCA for basically air superiority role. For 1/2 squadron at least. PM wants a fighter that that won't be obsolete in decades. So BAF proposed three options EFT, Rafale and Su-35. However some top level commanders prefers Su-35 but EFT has big chance.

But if we put BD Military's news aside the only thing 100% confirmed by Law Minister is one squadron of fighters (for cox's bazar if i am not mistaken) and new modern SAM system. While the AF chief suggested the next fighter will be cost-effective. This "one squadron", "cost effective" fighter could be the same or two separate things. BAF have to replace F-7MBs with something sooner. According to BD Military one squadron customized J-10B is coming first which is not impossible even if some guys disagree. Don't see any other good "cost effective" fighter than J-10 in affordable price.

Question:-  Is it possible to install different AESA radar in J-10 like the Pakistanis are thinking about their JF-17 with Vixen AESA radar? (I think i asked this before, got tagged in thread for the answer though didn't get anything satisfying.)

Anyway has anyone got the new BAF Anirban 2018 video with good quality? Heard they showed some new informative stuff.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Any tender for toilet paper from Bangladesh Airforce?


Bengalis use bodna! XD

SRBM project bajra cancelled in favor of sourcing them from friendly country with tot on the table... it was deemed impractical to invest so much in research alone

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## gslv mk3

Michael Corleone said:


> SRBM project bajra cancelled in favor of sourcing them from friendly country with tot on the table... it was deemed impractical to invest so much in research alone



What is the present state of technology in Bangladesh to develop such a system ? 

Import looks like a practical option.


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## UKBengali

tarpitz said:


> Let them keep dreaming. [emoji3][emoji16]




Hey buddy - it will be China's loss and not BD's.

China gets the chance to earn a few billions from selling a version of J-10C and also gets it's first export order.

BAF can just go and order another fighter(albeit with more cost) if China does not sell but we know they will as it is in their economic and strategic interest for a strong BD.


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## Michael Corleone

gslv mk3 said:


> What is the present state of technology in Bangladesh to develop such a system ?
> 
> Import looks like a practical option.


Exactly why it was cancelled. To develop such a system without substantial prior knowledge/ technological expertise was deemed impractical. They’ll be sourced from outside and researched on from there to improve the potential

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## The Ronin

FM-90C tracking vehicle AESA radar, range- 45km.

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## The Ronin

বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর নতুন Level-D flight simulator of Mi-171 series helicopter. সমগ্র এশিয়াতে কেবলমাত্র বাংলাদেশই Mi-171 এর Level-D full flight simulator ইউজ করে।বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনী ঘাঁটি বাশারে Helicopter Simulator Institute (HSI) তে রাশিয়ার সহায়তায় এটি স্থাপন করেছে বিমানবাহিনী যা ইতিমধ্যে অপারেশনাল এবং পাইলটদের ট্রেনিং দিচ্ছে।
এই সিমুলেটরে রাশিয়ান Mi সিরিজের যেকোন হেলিকপ্টারের সিমুলেশন করা যাবে যা ভবিষ্যতে আরো আধুনিক হেলিকপ্টারের ট্রেনিং ও দক্ষ পাইলট বানাতে সাহায্য করবে।

PC- DTB

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## Michael Corleone

anyone seen the 500hr flight certified mig 29 pilot in the new anirban?

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> anyone seen the 500hr flight certified mig 29 pilot in the new anirban?



500+

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> anyone seen the 500hr flight certified mig 29 pilot in the new anirban?


Flew with simulator probably.


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## Tanveer666

TopCat said:


> Flew with simulator probably.


We too broke to buy them simulators!


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Flew with simulator probably.


simulator hours do not count.... lmao


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## The Ronin

BAF issued tender for one more UAV system (3/4 aerial platform).

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/2593.pdf

BAF member with CH-5 UAV

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## polanski

Mothball of Bangladesh Air Guard. These stupids are thinking of flying aircraft. This is exactly why Bangladesh does not need an Air Guard. The "Force" word doesn't apply for Bangladesh. 

Besides, BBC reports that Bangladeshi Air wings or Air Guard personnel were *infected with HIV* at UN peacekeeping mission. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1696063.stm

https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.co...h-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/

http://hivinemergencies.org/contexts/peacekeeping/

@Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Nilgiri

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## Destranator

Raihan Al Beruni/@araberuni7/@polanski/Ryan Smith the self-hating muppet is at it again. Please report this scumbag every time he posts garbage like the above.
@Michael Corleone @shourov323 @Mage @The Ronin @UKBengali @Bilal9 



polanski said:


> Mothball of Bangladesh Air Guard. These stupids are thinking of flying aircraft. This is exactly why Bangladesh does not need an Air Guard. The "Force" word doesn't apply for Bangladesh.
> 
> Besides, BBC reports that Bangladeshi Air wings or Air Guard personnel were *infected with HIV* at UN peacekeeping mission. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1696063.stm
> 
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.co...h-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/
> 
> http://hivinemergencies.org/contexts/peacekeeping/
> 
> @Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Nilgiri

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## Imran Khan

pair of F-7BM formation takeoff with afterburner

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## polanski

Bangladesh Air Guard crashed F-7.Debris is being collected by Bangladeshi coast guard. 
https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/201...ir-forces-f-7-fighter-jet-pilot-still-missing


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## ghost250

Extreme low pass of BAF F-7BGI





__ https://www.facebook.com/






credit-DTB

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Bangladesh Air Guard crashed F-7.Debris is being collected by Bangladeshi coast guard.
> https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/201...ir-forces-f-7-fighter-jet-pilot-still-missing



This is old.

Seems like your happy about it though.

RIP to the pilot.


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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> This is old.
> 
> Seems like your happy about it though.
> 
> RIP to the pilot.


I take it as another social news. This is what happen when people don't understand national security, geopolitics and geo-strategy. It is more than what everyone think.

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## Imran Khan

polanski said:


> Bangladesh Air Guard crashed F-7.Debris is being collected by Bangladeshi coast guard.
> https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/201...ir-forces-f-7-fighter-jet-pilot-still-missing


this seems EFT of f7

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Mothball of Bangladesh Air Guard. These stupids are thinking of flying aircraft. This is exactly why Bangladesh does not need an Air Guard. The "Force" word doesn't apply for Bangladesh.
> 
> Besides, BBC reports that Bangladeshi Air wings or Air Guard personnel were *infected with HIV* at UN peacekeeping mission. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1696063.stm
> 
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.co...h-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/
> 
> http://hivinemergencies.org/contexts/peacekeeping/
> 
> @Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Nilgiri


This is a brand new frame being moved for assembly dumbasssss

Anyone can be infected with HIV, even doctors like me... it’s not necessary that sexual acts spread HIV, cut wound can easily get someone infected



shourov323 said:


> Extreme low pass of BAF F-7BGI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> credit-DTB


It’s fun living near the airport, the kind of stunts they pull are breathtaking



polanski said:


> I take it as another social news. This is what happen when people don't understand national security, geopolitics and geo-strategy. It is more than what everyone think.


This guy understands

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> This is a brand new frame being moved for assembly dumbasssss
> 
> Anyone can be infected with HIV, even doctors like me... it’s not necessary that sexual acts spread HIV, cut wound can easily get someone infected
> 
> 
> It’s fun living near the airport, the kind of stunts they pull are breathtaking
> 
> 
> This guy understands


i saw these pics some 7 years ago sir


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## bluesky

polanski said:


> Bangladesh Air Guard crashed F-7. Debris is being collected by Bangladeshi coast guard.
> https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/201...ir-forces-f-7-fighter-jet-pilot-still-missing


I think this must be the first air crash since the Wright brothers developed the airplane. So, the debris must be kept in the US national museum for everyone to see this historical milestone and make you its caretaker. But, should it be in the US or Dhaka?


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## Destranator

bluesky said:


> I think this must be the first air crash since the Wright brothers developed the airplane. So, the debris must be kept in the US national museum for everyone to see this historical milestone and make you its caretaker. But, should it be in the US or Dhaka?



Please don't fall for Beruni's trap and bash the US. He is a self-loathing Bangladeshi living in Australia who pretends to be an American here.

The US is a top ally of Bangladesh and post 1975 has been our largest economic development partner in various ways.

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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> i saw these pics some 7 years ago sir


yes brother! these were taken in russia.... they're not recent or mothballs like that idiot claimed them to be

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> yes brother! these were taken in russia.... they're not recent or mothballs like that idiot claimed them to be


this was set of images . as i remember some 5 or 7 images long times ago .but i am sure more then 7 years or even more . these pics were from streets of some russian city . these were posted here on PDF .

lets come back on topic

F-86 sabre was first and last US made fighter jet in BAF ?

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> F-86 sabre was first and last US made fighter jet in BAF ?



That is correct. It is said that there were attempts to get F-16s in the 80s-90s by Ershad and Hasina but the US refused. We then turned to the Russians and got Fulcrums instead.


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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> That is correct. It is said that there were attempts to get F-16s in the 80s-90s by Ershad and Hasina but the US refused. We then turned to the Russians and got Fulcrums instead.



AL wanted 27 F-16s in the late 1990s but US refused and so the Mig-29 was brought instead.

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## Imran Khan

UKBengali said:


> AL wanted 27 F-16s in the late 1990s but US refused and so the Mig-29 was brought instead.


27 F-16 was good numbers then . any idea why USA refused ?


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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> 27 F-16 was good numbers then . any idea why USA refused ?



"Thy need not offensive platforms. Thou shalt focus on development...".


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## The Ronin

#1. After reading this shitty article: https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.co...h-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/







It's cute to see this clown using photos and old maps to create garbage.  This clown is a terrible liar.  How ridiculously he claiming BAF's radar station, Mig-29 and C-130 is mothballed from an old google map image.  "Mothballed", "cannibalized", "deserted" 

#2. This photo:







Michael Corleone said:


> This is a brand new frame being moved for assembly dumbasssss



His reply was enough for that clown. The same photo was posted in this article below dated in January, 2013 in different caption.

https://antifarid.wordpress.com/tag/russia/

That's how they deliver/move aircraft, then assemble it. You can't load the whole body intact inside a cargo. Anyway here is some similar cases.

BAF AW-119 after delivery





Army Aviation's Mi-171sh





BAF Yak-130 after delivery
















#3.






He is claiming these are ruined F-7BGI while from the wing and camo it looks like phased out/decommissioned 2 FT-6 and 6 A-5.

FT-6









A-5













How this clown claim those are ruined F-7BGI when the MB version is still good and operational. That's what a F-7BGI's wing and camo looks like you dumb-***. I bet he could've zoomed more to get more clear view of those aircraft but didn't because his lie will be more exposed.







#4. "Cox Bazar dual pupose airport. Bangladesh Air Force deserted the airbase after fancy photo shoot of Yak-130"  This photo is old like his grandma  Another joke from Ryan Smith/ Al Beguni the clown. 






This is what Cox's Bazar airport looks like now you clown. Forgot again how to google or what?? 
























So BAF deserted the base after a fancy photo shoot of Yak-130, eh? 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1001130326730544





#5. He claimed all C-130 is donated and provided a Janes article as proof which didn't say anywhere that the aircraft is donated. Meanwhile his "mothballed" C-130..........





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1018894818287428





#6. While he is dreaming about "mothballed" radar station........

https://ops.group/blog/bangladesh-is-now-one-big-adiz/
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/bangladesh-air-force-ordered-aesa-radar-selex-rat-31dl-haque






http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2018/jan/01/bangladesh-to-build-two-new-air-bases-1741625.html












From development fair.







#7. He wrote Bangladesh media reported that BAF fighter pilot get only 20 flight hour but didn't provide any proof about this serious claim. Like he tried to do about so called "donated" C-130.

#8. Again this scumbag tried to belittle BAF by saying their officers in UN missions is infected with AIDS. Showing photos from AIDS awareness program and article as proof. The article didn't say anywhere that our any military officials got infected with HIV.

#9. "During the 2017 stand-off with Myanmar, the Myanmar Air Force was able to fly helicopter and drones over Bangladeshi airspace for more than 72 hours without any reciprocation from Bangladesh Air Force or the Army. Bangladeshi politicians resort to knocking the Chinese doorstep to help them bail out from an embarrassing situation." Where's the proof about this?? Another BS by Al-Haguni!! The Dhaka Tribune article provided as proof didn't say anything about it.

#10. "Bangladesh would be the smallest air force with combat capabilities with eight Mig-29s third generation fixed-wing aircraft that are limited in modern capability,– can carry only short-range A2A missile and free-fall bombs."

Didn't this clown say that our Mig-29s is mothballed? If our Mig 29 can only carry SRAAM then what's this?  Your mother's dildo?






#11. If MAF crashes their 2/3 Mig-29 how come they still have 31 Mi-29? Looks like this clown is not only good at writing shitty article, he also suck at math.


This shitty article was filled with lies, false claim and BS. This is more pathetic attempt to belittle Bangladesh Military than his previous BS article. The old images he provided in his article only indicates how slow his internet speed like this ad.






This guy must have some pretty bad past with BAF or probably his wordpress website has no visitor so he chose to publish BS article to attract people who hates BD/ BD Military. This clown must be pretty lonely. This song is perfect for him.






@Al-Ansar you know there's a proverb in Bengali that, "Dog's tail never gets straight". That's exactly his case. He will never change. That POS doesn't have any self-dignity. That's why he keep coming back after all these insult. Lets just leave him alone, he can shit all about BD Military day and night in this sub-forum or Myanmar defense forum if that give that poor guy a little happiness in his lonely life then be it.

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## Destranator

LOL @The Ronin , nailed it.

Do you know how I knew straightaway that @polanski is in fact Al-Beruni? The pattern of his grammatical errors. I have been reading his posts both here and in the now-defunct Bdmilitary forum. While he pretends to be American as @polanski, his struggle to differentiate between nouns and adjectives persists. 

See the texts in bold below:




polanski said:


> I think you should stop barking at the members at PDF. You wake up with hangover then blame *American, Indian, Chinese and Russian *for your failure. Find a new blame game boy!
> 
> I don't think any Air Force need precursors to buy Aircraft unless you are an Air Guard. I have a very good advice for you, instead of spending money on military, spend that money on contraception that will be helpful for your country.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-353



araberuni7 said:


> Actually Russian promised too much and delivered too little. Sukhoi admitted that Su-57 will be delivered with same engine as Su-35 until proposed engine pass the tests. Radar is another issue then stealth is questionable. Add to that the Su-57 is complex to manufacture and maintain. It takes weeks to replace a single Engine. Plus *Russian* never disclosed much details to India about technology.
> 
> Russian business strategy sucks. They promised Zhuk-AE to Egyptian Air Force but delivering MiG-35 with mechanically scanned legacy Zhuk phased array because Zhuk-AE is not production ready.
> Meanwhile Modi meet his Swedish counterpart to discuss Gripen and other ToT. India had enough of Russian BS. No shame saying that we should learn from India when comes to dealing with Mafia gangs of the East.





araberuni7 said:


> Pantsir has a shitty target detection capability. Ask the Syrian!


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-312



araberuni7 said:


> So you think BAF officers are intelligent?
> 
> It was never about the financial situation of Bangladesh that contributed to the depleted capability of BAF. The entire Organisation is incompetent and corrupt. Do you know, UAC offered BAF 12X MiG-29SMT instead of Yak-130. If this Organisation is not corrupt then how come they buy Yak-130 with the same price as MiG-29SMT. BAF’s Yak-130 is overpriced than Belarus Yak-130.
> 
> Even BA is frustrated by the behaviour of BAF officers. BAF is in the state of ruin because of themselves not because of any government. BAF repeated made many mistakes while drafting tender. What on earth BAF declare MRCA tender with limited bidding by only Russian vendor. If corruption was not involved then, BAF could have open the tender for another vendor like Chengdu as well.
> 
> We all know how *Russian* works in South East and South Asian defence market. Kickback, bribes and pleasure trip to Moscow are the few tricks of Rosoboronexport. The previous Chief of BAF and current chief of BAF have many pleasure trip as off now, namely Turkey, China, Russia, India, USA, Italy...
> 
> The main problem is BAF officers are incompetent. You want proof then read MRCA specification written by BAF.




https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bang...rs-for-dedicated-acrobatic-team.541092/page-8

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> #1. After reading this shitty article: https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.co...h-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/
> 
> View attachment 505009
> 
> 
> It's cute to see this clown using photos and old maps to create garbage.  This clown is a terrible liar.  How ridiculously he claiming BAF's radar station, Mig-29 and C-130 is mothballed from an old google map image.  "Mothballed", "cannibalized", "deserted"
> 
> #2. This photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His reply was enough for that clown. The same photo was posted in this article below dated in January, 2013 in different caption.
> 
> https://antifarid.wordpress.com/tag/russia/
> 
> That's how they deliver/move aircraft, then assemble it. You can't load the whole body intact inside a cargo. Anyway here is some similar cases.
> 
> BAF AW-119 after delivery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army Aviation's Mi-171sh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAF Yak-130 after delivery
> View attachment 505018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is claiming these are ruined F-7BGI while from the wing and camo it looks like phased out/decommissioned 2 FT-6 and 6 A-5.
> 
> FT-6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A-5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How this clown claim those are ruined F-7BGI when the MB version is still good and operational. That's what a F-7BGI's wing and camo looks like you dumb-***. I bet he could've zoomed more to get more clear view of those aircraft but didn't because his lie will be more exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #4. "Cox Bazar dual pupose airport. Bangladesh Air Force deserted the airbase after fancy photo shoot of Yak-130"  This photo is old like his grandma  Another joke from Ryan Smith/ Al Beguni the clown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what Cox's Bazar airport looks like now you clown. Forget how to google or what??
> 
> 
> View attachment 505052
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 505053
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So BAF deserted the base after a fancy photo shoot of Yak-130, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1001130326730544
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #5. He claimed all C-130 is donated and provided a Janes article as proof which didn't say anywhere that the aircraft is donated. Meanwhile his "mothballed" C-130..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1018894818287428
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #6. While he is dreaming about "mothballed" radar station........
> 
> https://ops.group/blog/bangladesh-is-now-one-big-adiz/
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/bangladesh-air-force-ordered-aesa-radar-selex-rat-31dl-haque
> 
> View attachment 505059
> 
> 
> http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2018/jan/01/bangladesh-to-build-two-new-air-bases-1741625.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From development fair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #7. He wrote Bangladesh media reported that BAF fighter pilot get only 20 flight hour but didn't provide any proof about this serious claim. Like he tried to do about so called "donated" C-130.
> 
> #8. Again this scumbag tried to belittle BAF by saying their officers in UN missions is infected with AIDS. Showing photos from AIDS awareness program and article as proof. The article didn't say anywhere that our any military officials got infected with HIV.
> 
> #9. "During the 2017 stand-off with Myanmar, the Myanmar Air Force was able to fly helicopter and drones over Bangladeshi airspace for more than 72 hours without any reciprocation from Bangladesh Air Force or the Army. Bangladeshi politicians resort to knocking the Chinese doorstep to help them bail out from an embarrassing situation." Where's the proof about this?? Another BS by Al-Haguni!! The Dhaka Tribune article provided as proof didn't say anything about it.
> 
> #10. "Bangladesh would be the smallest air force with combat capabilities with eight Mig-29s third generation fixed-wing aircraft that are limited in modern capability,– can carry only short-range A2A missile and free-fall bombs."
> 
> Didn't this clown say that our Mig-29s is mothballed? If our Mig 29 can only carry SRAAM then what's this?  Your mother's dildo?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #11. If MAF crashes their 2/3 Mig-29 how come they still have 31 Mi-29? Looks like this clown is not only good at writing shitty article, he also suck at math.
> 
> 
> This shitty article was filled with lies, false claim and BS. This is more pathetic attempt to belittle Bangladesh Military than his previous BS article. The old images he provided in his article only indicates how slow his internet speed like this ad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy must have some pretty bad past with BAF or probably his wordpress website has no visitor so he chose to publish BS article to attract people who hates BD/ BD Military. This clown must be pretty lonely. This song is perfect for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Al-Ansar you know there's a proverb in Bengali that, "Dog's tail never gets straight". That's exactly his case. He will never change. That POS doesn't have any self-dignity. That's why he keep coming back after all these insult. Lets just leave him alone, he can shit all about BD Military day and night in this sub-forum or Myanmar defense forum if that give that poor guy a little happiness in his lonely life.



brother,why r u trying to explain everything to this pola_magi guy?? writing shitty wordpress articles nd sucking burmese dick is the only thing this hijra is good at....

@Al-Ansar

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> #1. After reading this shitty article: https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.co...h-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/
> 
> View attachment 505009
> 
> 
> It's cute to see this clown using photos and old maps to create garbage.  This clown is a terrible liar.  How ridiculously he claiming BAF's radar station, Mig-29 and C-130 is mothballed from an old google map image.  "Mothballed", "cannibalized", "deserted"
> 
> #2. This photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His reply was enough for that clown. The same photo was posted in this article below dated in January, 2013 in different caption.
> 
> https://antifarid.wordpress.com/tag/russia/
> 
> That's how they deliver/move aircraft, then assemble it. You can't load the whole body intact inside a cargo. Anyway here is some similar cases.
> 
> BAF AW-119 after delivery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army Aviation's Mi-171sh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAF Yak-130 after delivery
> View attachment 505018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is claiming these are ruined F-7BGI while from the wing and camo it looks like phased out/decommissioned 2 FT-6 and 6 A-5.
> 
> FT-6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A-5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How this clown claim those are ruined F-7BGI when the MB version is still good and operational. That's what a F-7BGI's wing and camo looks like you dumb-***. I bet he could've zoomed more to get more clear view of those aircraft but didn't because his lie will be more exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #4. "Cox Bazar dual pupose airport. Bangladesh Air Force deserted the airbase after fancy photo shoot of Yak-130"  This photo is old like his grandma  Another joke from Ryan Smith/ Al Beguni the clown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what Cox's Bazar airport looks like now you clown. Forget how to google or what??
> 
> 
> View attachment 505052
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 505053
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So BAF deserted the base after a fancy photo shoot of Yak-130, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1001130326730544
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #5. He claimed all C-130 is donated and provided a Janes article as proof which didn't say anywhere that the aircraft is donated. Meanwhile his "mothballed" C-130..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1018894818287428
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #6. While he is dreaming about "mothballed" radar station........
> 
> https://ops.group/blog/bangladesh-is-now-one-big-adiz/
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/bangladesh-air-force-ordered-aesa-radar-selex-rat-31dl-haque
> 
> View attachment 505059
> 
> 
> http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2018/jan/01/bangladesh-to-build-two-new-air-bases-1741625.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From development fair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #7. He wrote Bangladesh media reported that BAF fighter pilot get only 20 flight hour but didn't provide any proof about this serious claim. Like he tried to do about so called "donated" C-130.
> 
> #8. Again this scumbag tried to belittle BAF by saying their officers in UN missions is infected with AIDS. Showing photos from AIDS awareness program and article as proof. The article didn't say anywhere that our any military officials got infected with HIV.
> 
> #9. "During the 2017 stand-off with Myanmar, the Myanmar Air Force was able to fly helicopter and drones over Bangladeshi airspace for more than 72 hours without any reciprocation from Bangladesh Air Force or the Army. Bangladeshi politicians resort to knocking the Chinese doorstep to help them bail out from an embarrassing situation." Where's the proof about this?? Another BS by Al-Haguni!! The Dhaka Tribune article provided as proof didn't say anything about it.
> 
> #10. "Bangladesh would be the smallest air force with combat capabilities with eight Mig-29s third generation fixed-wing aircraft that are limited in modern capability,– can carry only short-range A2A missile and free-fall bombs."
> 
> Didn't this clown say that our Mig-29s is mothballed? If our Mig 29 can only carry SRAAM then what's this?  Your mother's dildo?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #11. If MAF crashes their 2/3 Mig-29 how come they still have 31 Mi-29? Looks like this clown is not only good at writing shitty article, he also suck at math.
> 
> 
> This shitty article was filled with lies, false claim and BS. This is more pathetic attempt to belittle Bangladesh Military than his previous BS article. The old images he provided in his article only indicates how slow his internet speed like this ad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy must have some pretty bad past with BAF or probably his wordpress website has no visitor so he chose to publish BS article to attract people who hates BD/ BD Military. This clown must be pretty lonely. This song is perfect for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Al-Ansar you know there's a proverb in Bengali that, "Dog's tail never gets straight". That's exactly his case. He will never change. That POS doesn't have any self-dignity. That's why he keep coming back after all these insult. Lets just leave him alone, he can shit all about BD Military day and night in this sub-forum or Myanmar defense forum if that give that poor guy a little happiness in his lonely life then be it.


i can't believe you went through the effort to burn this guy to churn.... no one could have done this better! xD

he's most probably a BAF reject xD



Imran Khan said:


> this was set of images . as i remember some 5 or 7 images long times ago .but i am sure more then 7 years or even more . these pics were from streets of some russian city . these were posted here on PDF .
> 
> lets come back on topic
> 
> F-86 sabre was first and last US made fighter jet in BAF ?


yes you're right brother, f-16 was sought but refused citing poor economy by the US, in 2009 there was request to buy f-18 from USMC, but the marines needed fighters and bought them back into their service, still serving today... some pilots received training on that too

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> i can't believe you went through the effort to burn this guy to churn.... no one could have done this better! xD
> 
> he's most probably a BAF reject xD
> 
> 
> yes you're right brother, f-16 was sought but refused citing poor economy by the US, in 2009 there was request to buy f-18 from USMC, but the marines needed fighters and bought them back into their service, still serving today... some pilots received training on that too


those f-18 was from surplus ?i think su-30 or j-10 will be better for BD . USA play too much dirty always after you buy from them

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## The Ronin

Imran Khan said:


> any idea why USA refused ?



http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html

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## Imran Khan

The Ronin said:


> http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html


how they know what is appropriate for other countries  yanks they follow interests 

A State Department official said Bangladesh had wanted to buy several F-16s but the United States felt the planes were "not really appropriate" for Bangladesh



Al-Ansar said:


> "Thy need not offensive platforms. Thou shalt focus on development...".


USA will sale if there is cash involved a big cash


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> This is a brand new frame being moved for assembly dumbasssss
> 
> Anyone can be infected with HIV, even doctors like me... it’s not necessary that sexual acts spread HIV, cut wound can easily get someone infected
> 
> 
> It’s fun living near the airport, the kind of stunts they pull are breathtaking
> 
> 
> This guy understands


You must be stupid idiot. Did you ever see a brand new airframe towed behind a sedan car. You A..hole. this is exactly why you have Air Guard not Air Force.
You again blame America for your failure
Show me a copy of a document whereby Bangladeshi government sent a request of foreign military sale of 27 F-16. You can't afford cheap Chinese and Russian junk. How could I believe Bangladesh sent foreign military sale of 27 F-16. Stop spreading propaganda. You have said same sh$t enough. Nobody believes your BS anymore not me.
Meanwhile 90000 Bangladeshi troops were screened for HIV/STI. You are obviously out of your mind. There is an epidemic going on otherwise why is screening 90000 troops.
Publish this news on your local newspaper, you will be dragged on the street by your people and take your pants off. People don't read English newspapers so you save skin.

BTW one of you can't even write in English in this forum who desperately try to write in English but his native language pops up because he cannot complete a sentence in English.


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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> You must be stupid idiot. Did you ever see a brand new airframe towed behind a sedan car. You A..hole. this is exactly why you have Air Guard not Air Force.
> You again blame America for your failure
> Show me a copy of a document whereby Bangladeshi government sent a request of foreign military sale of 27 F-16. You can't afford cheap Chinese and Russian junk. How could I believe Bangladesh sent foreign military sale of 27 F-16. Stop spreading propaganda. You have said same sh$t enough. Nobody believes your BS anymore not me.
> Meanwhile 90000 Bangladeshi troops were screened for HIV/STI. You are obviously out of your mind. There is an epidemic going on otherwise why is screening 90000 troops.
> Publish this news on your local newspaper, you will be dragged on the street by your people and take your pants off. People don't read English newspapers so you save skin.
> 
> BTW one of you can't even write in English in this forum who desperately try to write in English but his native language pops up because he cannot complete a sentence in English.




Dude, we know that BD placed an order for 16 + 16 Mig-29s in 1999 and the first 8 were delivered in 2001. If AL had stayed in power in 2001, they would have brought all 32 Mig-29s.

If BD can afford 32 Mig-29s then they can afford 24 F-16s as the total cost would be similar.

Now please explain why a highly educated American has such a bad grasp of the English language?

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## The Ronin

#1. A IDIOT who thinks a sedan car is towing this big trailer with that big airframe calling @Michael Corleone idiot .................... Two minutes silence for this imbecile. Why a sedan car will tow this thing in the first place??!! What kind of brain this guy have??!!

@vostok sorry for dragging you into this but this guy above believes that a new Russian helicopter can't be transported like this. Can you give your opinion?






Meanwhile...........















#2. "You can't afford cheap Chinese and Russian junk." What?? What does it even mean?? 

#3. I already provided link about the effort of GoB to buy F-16 from USA. Not some crappy wordpress website who spew garbage about BAF deliberately.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html

#4.We sent 90000 soldiers outside back then? Doesn't this figure seem too far fetched?? Who needs that many soldiers from a single country during peace time? where were they deployed?? 

#5. People read English newspaper, some even publish the news from it in Bengali. Not everyone is uneducated idiot like you who can't even google what Cox's Bazar airport or Bangladesh Police uniform look like. I saw even worse news about military official but never saw anyone got dragged on the street by our people. 

#6. We all know very well who spreads propaganda with images from old google maps and BS.



Michael Corleone said:


> i can't believe you went through the effort to burn this guy to churn



I just love Beguni, had some yesterday. Delicious and yummy. But i can't believe that this imbecile believes a sedan car is towing that trailer.

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## polanski

UKBengali said:


> Dude, we know that BD placed an order for 16 + 16 Mig-29s in 1999 and the first 8 were delivered in 2001. If AL had stayed in power in 2001, they would have brought all 32 Mig-29s.
> 
> If BD can afford 32 Mig-29s then they can afford 24 F-16s as the total cost would be similar.
> 
> Now please explain why a highly educated American has such a bad grasp of the English language?


You did not answer the question. Show me an evidence whereby stated that the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh had sent a request of foreign military sale of 27 F-16 and America declined a sale of 27 F-16. 
Stop bashing American. We established your Navy Special operatives. Ask Dan Mozena former high commissioner of USA to Bangladesh.



UKBengali said:


> Dude, we know that BD placed an order for 16 + 16 Mig-29s in 1999 and the first 8 were delivered in 2001. If AL had stayed in power in 2001, they would have brought all 32 Mig-29s.
> 
> If BD can afford 32 Mig-29s then they can afford 24 F-16s as the total cost would be similar.
> 
> Now please explain why a highly educated American has such a bad grasp of the English language?


You did not answer the question. Show me an evidence whereby stated that the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh had sent a request of foreign military sale of 27 F-16 and America declined a sale of 27 F-16. 
Stop bashing American. We established your Navy Special operatives. Ask Dan Mozena former high commissioner of USA to Bangladesh.


----------



## Destranator

polanski said:


> You did not answer the question. Show me an evidence whereby stated that the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh had sent a request of foreign military sale of 27 F-16 and America declined a sale of 27 F-16.
> Stop bashing American. We established your Navy Special operatives. Ask Dan Mozena former high commissioner of USA to Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> You did not answer the question. Show me an evidence whereby stated that the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh had sent a request of foreign military sale of 27 F-16 and America declined a sale of 27 F-16.
> Stop bashing American. We established your Navy Special operatives. Ask Dan Mozena *former high commissioner* of USA to Bangladesh.



From when on does the US appoint High Commissioners instead of ambassadors??!!!! Is the US a member of the Commonwealth of Nations?
And why would a real American even confuse a high commissioner for an ambassador? Hayre bekub Beguni. 

"Stop bashing _America*n*_"
American what, you illiterate idiot? Complete the damn sentence.


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## vostok

The Ronin said:


> #1. A IDIOT who thinks a sedan car is towing this big trailer with that big airframe calling @Michael Corleone idiot .................... Two minutes silence for this imbecile. Why a sedan car will tow this thing in the first place??!! What kind of brain this guy have??!!
> 
> @vostok sorry for dragging you into this but this guy above believes that a new Russian helicopter can't be transported like this. Can you give your opinion?

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## Imran Khan

The Ronin said:


> #1. A IDIOT who thinks a sedan car is towing this big trailer with that big airframe calling @Michael Corleone idiot .................... Two minutes silence for this imbecile. Why a sedan car will tow this thing in the first place??!! What kind of brain this guy have??!!
> 
> @vostok sorry for dragging you into this but this guy above believes that a new Russian helicopter can't be transported like this. Can you give your opinion?
> 
> View attachment 505269
> 
> 
> Meanwhile...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #2. "You can't afford cheap Chinese and Russian junk." What?? What does it even mean??
> 
> #3. I already provided link about the effort of GoB to buy F-16 from USA. Not some crappy wordpress website who spew garbage about BAF deliberately.
> 
> http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html
> 
> #4.We sent 90000 soldiers outside back then? Doesn't this figure seem too far fetched?? Who needs that many soldiers from a single country during peace time? where were they deployed??
> 
> #5. People read English newspaper, some even publish the news from it in Bengali. Not everyone is uneducated idiot like you who can't even google what Cox's Bazar airport or Bangladesh Police uniform look like. I saw even worse news about military official but never saw anyone got dragged on the street by our people.
> 
> #6. We all know very well who spreads propaganda with images from old google maps and BS.
> 
> 
> 
> I just love Beguni, had some yesterday. Delicious and yummy. But i can't believe that this imbecile believes a sedan car is towing that trailer.


these Bangladeshi helicopters were in Russia for upgrade i thought .. !

if it was scrapping why not in bangladesh why transport russia ?

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> #1. A IDIOT who thinks a sedan car is towing this big trailer with that big airframe calling @Michael Corleone idiot .................... Two minutes silence for this imbecile. Why a sedan car will tow this thing in the first place??!! What kind of brain this guy have??!!


twat, if you look at the shadows underneath... they're parallel, not aligned on the same plain.... if you knew simple geometry or anything about optical illusion, you wouldn't speak to me rn



Imran Khan said:


> those f-18 was from surplus ?i think su-30 or j-10 will be better for BD . USA play too much dirty always after you buy from them


certainly, the deal not working out for us is good in the long term



polanski said:


> You must be stupid idiot. Did you ever see a brand new airframe towed behind a sedan car. You A..hole. this is exactly why you have Air Guard not Air Force.
> You again blame America for your failure
> Show me a copy of a document whereby Bangladeshi government sent a request of foreign military sale of 27 F-16. You can't afford cheap Chinese and Russian junk. How could I believe Bangladesh sent foreign military sale of 27 F-16. Stop spreading propaganda. You have said same sh$t enough. Nobody believes your BS anymore not me.
> Meanwhile 90000 Bangladeshi troops were screened for HIV/STI. You are obviously out of your mind. There is an epidemic going on otherwise why is screening 90000 troops.
> Publish this news on your local newspaper, you will be dragged on the street by your people and take your pants off. People don't read English newspapers so you save skin.
> 
> BTW one of you can't even write in English in this forum who desperately try to write in English but his native language pops up because he cannot complete a sentence in English.


if you're looking for f-16 request proof, scroll up...
all UN troops are screened for HIV... heck people who immigrate to other countries also get screened.... i got screened for HIV and hepatitis when i moved to europe... what's wrong with that you conservative "supposedly american" mindfuck?
til now the total number of troops we sent amounts to around 100k, and their tour last 2-3 years... based on your estimate of 90000 back in 2000s it should mean we haven't sent troops for a while... so either you're taking figures out of your *** or UN is wrong...

the best i would rate you in your english proficiency is a D+ so go finish your IELTS program before acting american and judging others....


----------



## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Ummm i was actually supporting you. Why did you suddenly get angry? I already know that trailer wasn't towed by the sedan, even marked with red color to point it.


He clearly misread your post. Easy to misread as the word "idiot" was mentioned twice in the same sentence.

I think both of you were baffled by the genious of the HIGH COMMISSIONER of the US who tows a helicopter by a sedan.

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## Imran Khan

guys what is the issue even it was going to be scrapped ? everything have life span when its end we have to scrap it


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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> guys what is the issue even it was going to be scrapped ? everything have life span when its end we have to scrap it



All photos are of new platforms awaiting delivery.


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## Imran Khan

The Ronin said:


> It is a issue if someone uses the photo for his ridiculous propaganda. As you already asked why would we need to scrap it in Russia when many decommissioned aircraft is grounded in local area.


yeah why someone will send russia and pay money for scrap them 5000 miles away.



Al-Ansar said:


> All photos are of new platforms awaiting delivery.


its very old photo 2011 or 2010 . should not be issue of disscuss in 2018 .

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> yeah why someone will send russia and pay money for scrap them 5000 miles away.
> 
> 
> its very old photo 2011 or 2010 . should not be issue of disscuss in 2018 .


Agreed. Wouldn't have been in discussion had it not been for that moron.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Ummm i was actually supporting you. Why did you suddenly get angry? I already know that trailer wasn't towed by the sedan, even marked with red color to point it.


ouch, sorry brother. i thought i was replying to that idiot! this dude must not have simple cognitive skills...
why would i be angry at you? 
i had just woken up when i replied to the previous... my bad

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## polanski

vostok said:


> View attachment 505329
> View attachment 505330
> View attachment 505331
> View attachment 505332



Jesus Christ! Is this how a helicopter transported in Russia. The first helicopter on the picture is operational but rest of them may not be operational.



Michael Corleone said:


> the best i would rate you in your english proficiency is a D+ so go finish your IELTS program before acting american and judging others....



Southeast Asian students study IETLS to study aboard. American does not need to go through vetting process such as IELTS but you do.


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## The Ronin

Not only in Russia


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Southeast Asian students study IETLS to study aboard. American does not need to go through vetting process such as IELTS but you do.


you assume too much little b. i never had to do IELTS, but as for you... "supposedly native english speaker who also claims to be american" your english is whack... must have been to some govt, funded community school


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## bluesky

The Ronin said:


> #1. A IDIOT who thinks a sedan car is towing this big trailer with that big airframe calling @Michael Corleone idiot .................... Two minutes silence for this imbecile. Why a sedan car will tow this thing in the first place??!! What kind of brain this guy have??!!


But, I would not have been surprised if @Michael Corleone claimed that a camel was pulling the big trailer. He did not say so, can he be then called an idiot?

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## polanski

Russia cancelled Su-57 program and exposed as fruad. This is what happen you deal with mafia and gangster V Putin. 
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...hter-jet-features-su-57-photos-radars-beaming

https://amp.businessinsider.com/russia-admits-defeat-su-57-not-going-into-mass-production-2018-7


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## The Ronin

bluesky said:


> But, I would not have been surprised if @Michael Corleone claimed that a camel was pulling the big trailer. He did not say so, can he be then called an idiot?



@Michael Corleone didn't say anything. That other idiot did. Is it wrong calling him an idiot? Doesn't his obsession and constant ridiculous effort in belittling Russia, China, BD military and specially BAF amaze you? Even other PDF members provide much more reliable info if they try to troll us. But what this moron provides as evidence to humiliate our military is laughable. Check his two article and my previous thread. This a-hole pretends like he knows everything but looks like he can't even google a simple thing like what does our police uniform, cox bazar air port or F-7BGI look like. As @Michael Corleone already said, this guy is full of shit. Can you show me a sedan car is pulling that big trailer with an big Mi-17 helicopter body? Anyway we talked enough about this POS, don't want to derail the thread anymore.

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## The Ronin

BAF issued tender for 24 PL-5EII Air to Air Missile, they also bought the same amount of missiles last year.

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/2631.pdf


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## monitor




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## TopCat

polanski said:


> Looks like you have one too. Your buttocks hurt when people tell the truth. Your boyfriend screwed you on MRCA but you can't tell anything because you're worried that boyfriend won't supply spare parts of Yak and it will be become another mothball like third generation MiG.
> Someone posted logistics win the battle from F$ckBook. That's donated aircraft from UK and US. Ask Vladimir Putin to donate few used condoms, he will say no.


What is the likely hood of saudi paying for Typhoon for baf?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

TopCat said:


> What is the likely hood of saudi paying for Typhoon for baf?

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> What is the likely hood of saudi paying for Typhoon for baf?



ZERO

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## polanski

@top gun

Mohammed Bin Salman AKA MBS has no interest on Bangladesh. Bangladesh is not Egypt or Pakistan. MBS won't spend any money on Bangladesh military. What is the benefit?
Saudi won't send ground troops inside Yamen. It would not be UN peacekeeping mission. Houthis are heavily armed militias.

Saudi would prefer Egyptian and Pakistani troops over Bangladeshi. Even for the purpose of special Ops, Pakistan would be better choice. MBS so far proved to be intelligent.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/9/donald-trumps-arab-nato-middle-east-strategic-alli/
https://www.dawn.com/news/1217769


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> @top gun
> 
> Mohammed Bin Salman AKA MBS has no interest on Bangladesh. Bangladesh is not Egypt or Pakistan. MBS won't spend any money on Bangladesh military. What is the benefit?
> Saudi won't send ground troops inside Yamen. It would not be UN peacekeeping mission. Houthis are heavily armed militias.
> 
> Saudi would prefer Egyptian and Pakistani troops over Bangladeshi. Even for the purpose of special Ops, Pakistan would be better choice. MBS so far proved to be intelligent.
> 
> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/9/donald-trumps-arab-nato-middle-east-strategic-alli/
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1217769


saudi won't send troops because they got their *** whopped....

and neither pakistan/ egypt nor bangladesh will participate in saudis war with other nations....

what is possible however is participation of troops in case of a external invasion of saudi... ie protection of mecca and medina

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## mb444

TopCat said:


> What is the likely hood of saudi paying for Typhoon for baf?



None whatsoever ....why would Saudi pay anything to be used in BD? Both nations are roughly in the pro west camp and in Arab affairs BD is likely to take the Saudi position but we are not allied in any significant way.



polanski said:


> @top gun
> 
> Mohammed Bin Salman AKA MBS has no interest on Bangladesh. Bangladesh is not Egypt or Pakistan. MBS won't spend any money on Bangladesh military. What is the benefit?
> Saudi won't send ground troops inside Yamen. It would not be UN peacekeeping mission. Houthis are heavily armed militias.
> 
> Saudi would prefer Egyptian and Pakistani troops over Bangladeshi. Even for the purpose of special Ops, Pakistan would be better choice. MBS so far proved to be intelligent.
> 
> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/9/donald-trumps-arab-nato-middle-east-strategic-alli/
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1217769




MBS intelligent!!!! Lol....everything this guy touches fails .... to name some of his achievements......failed to subdue the Houthi rebels of Yemen, failed on the blockade of Qatar, failed on the Aramco IPO, failed to browbeat Palestinians into a crappy deal with the Zionist entity, shot himself in the foot with Germany and Canada with childish histrionics, failed objective of kidnapping Hariri and controlling Lebanon, spectacularly failed with khashoggi affair that is rocking the foundation of the kingdom.....whatever MBS is let's not tag intelligent as a descriptor to it.

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## ghost250

4 x F-7 in a formation with 3x Mig-29 over BoB(??!!!)





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## polanski

mb444 said:


> None whatsoever ....why would Saudi pay anything to be used in BD? Both nations are roughly in the pro west camp and in Arab affairs BD is likely to take the Saudi position but we are not allied in any significant way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MBS intelligent!!!! Lol....everything this guy touches fails .... to name some of his achievements......failed to subdue the Houthi rebels of Yemen, failed on the blockade of Qatar, failed on the Aramco IPO, failed to browbeat Palestinians into a crappy deal with the Zionist entity, shot himself in the foot with Germany and Canada with childish histrionics, failed objective of kidnapping Hariri and controlling Lebanon, spectacularly failed with khashoggi affair that is rocking the foundation of the kingdom.....whatever MBS is let's not tag intelligent as a descriptor to it.


I don't deny that he has some failures but you have take into account everything. MBS has given drivers license to Saudi women, allowed Saudi women to seat next to men in WWE events, allowed women to go to cinema, opened cinema, liberalize economy, Saudi Arabia 2030, and established better relationships with Israel, UAE and Egypt. It's a fact that Saudi and Israel work together to deter Iran infiltrating Yamen, Lebanon and Syria. Saudi will have a diplomatic ties with Israel at some point. 
Don't forget Israel was among first few countries which recognized Bangladesh in 1971.


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> I don't deny that he has some failures but you have take into account everything. MBS has given drivers license to Saudi women, allowed Saudi women to seat next to men in WWE events, allowed women to go to cinema, opened cinema, liberalize economy, Saudi Arabia 2030, and established better relationships with Israel, UAE and Egypt. It's a fact that Saudi and Israel work together to deter Iran infiltrating Yamen, Lebanon and Syria. Saudi will have a diplomatic ties with Israel at some point.
> Don't forget Israel was among first few countries which recognized Bangladesh in 1971.



MBS is a putz. It looks like he has finally gone too far.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> I don't deny that he has some failures but you have take into account everything. MBS has given drivers license to Saudi women, allowed Saudi women to seat next to men in WWE events, allowed women to go to cinema, opened cinema, liberalize economy, Saudi Arabia 2030, and established better relationships with Israel, UAE and Egypt. It's a fact that Saudi and Israel work together to deter Iran infiltrating Yamen, Lebanon and Syria. Saudi will have a diplomatic ties with Israel at some point.
> Don't forget Israel was among first few countries which recognized Bangladesh in 1971.


Yeah. Israel is a better friend than Saudi could ever be. **** Saudi


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## The Ronin

Whoa!! it's actually true!! I thought it will be 10 squadron of various aircraft!! Thanks @Species for the link.







https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/delta-force-keeping-bengali-skies-free.276730/

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Whoa!! it's actually true!! I thought it will be 10 squadron of various aircraft!! Thanks @Species for the link.
> 
> View attachment 507238
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/delta-force-keeping-bengali-skies-free.276730/



Being high on Bdmilitary's weed, we tend to conveniently ignore the bit about practicality and financial constraints in the same article and go on to open a million threads purely based on Ashiq/Ammar's weekly brainfarts.

AM Ziaur Rahman is quoted as stating in the article that 5 squadrons in totals would be a good short term acquisition. 5 years have elapsed since this article was published. What have we procured so far in the "short term"?

We often love to add an additional layer of delusion by claiming that BAF wants 10 NEW fighter squadrons courtesy of the same Amra Khan's BS. AM Rahman never expressed such a crazy ambition; he was referring to the overall fighter fleet.

@TopCat



monitor said:


> View attachment 505844


More recycled BS by DTB originating from Ashiq banaya.
The US has approved our application for only one C-130H under the EDA program. The US branch of military service which currently operates this unit will make the final call on whether to transfer to BAF. So even procurement of this single unit is not certain yet. See how many applications were rejected in the past:
http://www.dsca.mil/programs/excess-defense-articles-eda

There is no question of BAF receiving 3-4 C-130s from the US by 2021.
As for the RAF, while they are selling multiple unit there are many interested parties. They are likely to sell to multiple countries to extend the courtesy beyond internet superpower BD.

Yet we have Amra Khan giving away false hopes of BAF operating 11(!) C130s soon, also assuming that our 70 year old C-130Bs will never retire.

He also loves to claim that our C-130Bs have been "upgraded to H standards". He must have upgraded them himself in his garage.

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## The Ronin

Al-Ansar said:


> Being high on Bdmilitary's weed, we tend to conveniently ignore the bit about practicality and financial constraints in the same article and go on to open a million threads purely based on Ashiq/Ammar's weekly brainfarts.
> 
> AM Ziaur Rahman is quoted as stating in the article that 5 squadrons in totals would be a good short term acquisition. 5 years have elapsed since this article was published. What have we procured so far in the "short term"?
> 
> We often love to add an additional layer of delusion by claiming that BAF wants 10 NEW fighter squadrons courtesy of the same Amra Khan's BS. AM Rahman never expressed such a crazy ambition; he was referring to the overall fighter fleet.
> 
> @TopCat



Boy o boy!! I understand you hate BD Military and Amar Khan but that behavior wasn't necessary. I try my best not share anything from him here unless it's reliable. And this is not from BD Military or Amar Khan. The article form Air Forces Monthly/ Air Forces Daily. And AM Rahman talked about acquiring 10 squadron fighter in mid-term plan under FG2030. The article already said a dedicated maritime unit might be too expensive and we might have to wait little longer for this. The recent tender was about that fighter. And you gotta keep in mind you can't buy all of them overnight. India, China, Indonesia took years to finalize their fighter deal. Myanmar took two years. And why it seems crazy plan to you? budget will increase if ther current govt continues. Look like you are the one who is quiet high on his hatred about BD Military and Amar Khan.

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## mb444

polanski said:


> I don't deny that he has some failures but you have take into account everything. MBS has given drivers license to Saudi women, allowed Saudi women to seat next to men in WWE events, allowed women to go to cinema, opened cinema, liberalize economy, Saudi Arabia 2030, and established better relationships with Israel, UAE and Egypt. It's a fact that Saudi and Israel work together to deter Iran infiltrating Yamen, Lebanon and Syria. Saudi will have a diplomatic ties with Israel at some point.
> Don't forget Israel was among first few countries which recognized Bangladesh in 1971.


 

Unfortunately I do not share your views on Iran or the illegal Zionist entity.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Being high on Bdmilitary's weed, we tend to conveniently ignore the bit about practicality and financial constraints in the same article and go on to open a million threads purely based on Ashiq/Ammar's weekly brainfarts.
> 
> AM Ziaur Rahman is quoted as stating in the article that 5 squadrons in totals would be a good short term acquisition. 5 years have elapsed since this article was published. What have we procured so far in the "short term"?
> 
> We often love to add an additional layer of delusion by claiming that BAF wants 10 NEW fighter squadrons courtesy of the same Amra Khan's BS. AM Rahman never expressed such a crazy ambition; he was referring to the overall fighter fleet.





Let us use the language of mathematics to try to get an answer to this.

BD economy is currently at around 300 billion US dollars with defence budget around 4 billion US dollars.
Taking the HSBC estimate(most likely to be higher in reality) of BD economy growing by an average of 7.1% between now and 2030, we come to a defence budget of 9.1 billion US dollars in today's money in 2030.

If BD was spending 9.1 US billion dollars today then it could afford to operate an airforce of 160 modern fighters, plus the special mission(AEW), transport and trainer aircraft.

In my opinion, BAF of 2030 will have 250 aircraft in total, with 160 fighter aircraft.

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## Indos

UKBengali said:


> Let us use the language of mathematics to try to get an answer to this.
> 
> BD economy is currently at around 300 billion US dollars with defence budget around 4 billion US dollars.
> Taking the HSBC estimate(most likely to be higher in reality) of BD economy growing by an average of 7.1% between now and 2030, we come to a defence budget of 9.1 billion US dollars in today's money in 2030.
> 
> If BD was spending 9.1 US billion dollars today then it could afford to operate an airforce of 160 modern fighters, plus the special mission(AEW), transport and trainer aircraft.
> 
> In my opinion, BAF of 2030 will have 250 aircraft in total, with 160 fighter aircraft.



Indonesia defense budget is 8 billion USD but we only have 16 Su 27/30, 23 F 16 Block 52, 9-10 F 16 Block 15, 24 Hawk 200, 15 Supertucano, and 15 T-50 Golden Eagle.

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> Indonesia defense budget is 8 billion USD but we only have 16 Su 27/30, 23 F 16 Block 52, 9-10 F 16 Block 15, 24 Hawk 200, 15 Supertucano, and 15 T-50 Golden Eagle.



Looking at countries like Pakistan with 9 billion dollar defence budget who have hundreds of fighter aircraft.


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## Indos

UKBengali said:


> Looking at countries like Pakistan with 9 billion dollar defence budget who have hundreds of fighter aircraft.



Ya, Indonesia start to have 8 billion USD is starting at 2013 if I am not mistaken, during 2000-2010 we only have 4 billion USD defense budget. I think Pakistan has already got 8-9 billion USD defense budget since early 2000 where Pakistan keep acquiring fighter until Today (JF 17).

But for 5 generation fighter induction, the amount of money being spent will be much larger. I think you need to have around 12 billion USD to have a descent amount of 5 generation fighters in your air force. In 2030, 4 generation fighter has already been so obsolete.

And you need to spend money on Stealth frigates, sub marines, tanks, and missile as well.

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> Ya, Indonesia start to have 8 billion USD is starting at 2013 if I am not mistaken, during 2000-2010 we only have 4 billion USD defense budget. I think Pakistan has already got 8-9 billion USD defense budget since early 2000 where Pakistan keep acquiring fighter until Today (JF 17).
> 
> But for 5 generation fighter induction, the amount of money being spent will be much larger. I think you need to have around 12 billion USD to have a descent amount of 5 generation fighters in your air force. In 2030, 4 generation fighter has already been so obsolete.




BD growth looks almost certain to be higher than the 7.1% that HSBC has forecast to 2030 - more like the 8-9% average mark so we can assume defence budget at least 10 billion US dollars in today's money by 2030 if the budget is the same percentage of GDP as today.

BD official plan for "Forces Goal 2030" is to have 10 fighter squadrons of 16 each and so if some extra money needs to be found then so be it - by then no big deal to allocate 1-2 extra US billions per year to defence from GDP of 7-800 billion US dollars.

BD has officially announced plan to build 6 next-gen 4000+ tonne frigates at home for the Navy and so makes no sense that the airforce will also not become as powerful as the Navy as well.


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## polanski

UKBengali said:


> Let us use the language of mathematics to try to get an answer to this.
> 
> BD economy is currently at around 300 billion US dollars with defence budget around 4 billion US dollars.
> Taking the HSBC estimate(most likely to be higher in reality) of BD economy growing by an average of 7.1% between now and 2030, we come to a defence budget of 9.1 billion US dollars in today's money in 2030.
> 
> If BD was spending 9.1 US billion dollars today then it could afford to operate an airforce of 160 modern fighters, plus the special mission(AEW), transport and trainer aircraft.
> 
> In my opinion, BAF of 2030 will have 250 aircraft in total, with 160 fighter aircraft.


Good Luck with that. 
Don't tell me that Bangladesh military has fixed their constipation of brain. The most inept organization in South and Southeast Asia. Bangladesh is also ruled by granny who is too afraid to make any decision. The Granny is the puppet of India. 

Look at Rodrigo Duterte of Philippines, he ordered to produce a report on military modernization program. In the last six month, he authorized $5.46 billions to procure two squadrons of Gripen E/F, additional squadrons of FA-50. 
This is the difference between ruled by balls and ruled by vagina. 

During Gaghis khan era, military used be just a land force. Now military is about strong Air Force and strong Navy. Ground troops comes last but must be well trained and well equipped with Technology. Bangladesh is in ganghis khan era. 

Back to point, Myanmar, Pakistan and India are also ruled by balls. So their Militaries are also strong enough to be called a military.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Good Luck with that.
> Don't tell me that Bangladesh military has fixed their constipation of brain. The most inept organization in South and Southeast Asia. Bangladesh is also ruled by granny who is too afraid to make any decision. The Granny is the puppet of India.
> 
> Look at Rodrigo Duterte of Philippines, he ordered to produce a report on military modernization program. In the last six month, he authorized $5.46 billions to procure two squadrons of Gripen E/F, additional squadrons of FA-50.
> This is the difference between ruled by balls and ruled by vagina.
> 
> During Gaghis khan era, military used be just a land force. Now military is about strong Air Force and strong Navy. Ground troops comes last but must be well trained and well equipped with Technology. Bangladesh is in ganghis khan era.
> 
> Back to point, Myanmar, Pakistan and India are also ruled by balls. So their Militaries are also strong enough to be called a military.



I have to agree with you somewhat here.


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## Flynn Swagmire

polanski said:


> Good Luck with that.
> Don't tell me that Bangladesh military has fixed their constipation of brain. The most inept organization in South and Southeast Asia. Bangladesh is also ruled by granny who is too afraid to make any decision. The Granny is the puppet of India.
> 
> Look at Rodrigo Duterte of Philippines, he ordered to produce a report on military modernization program. In the last six month, he authorized $5.46 billions to procure two squadrons of Gripen E/F, additional squadrons of FA-50.
> This is the difference between ruled by balls and ruled by vagina.
> 
> During Gaghis khan era, military used be just a land force. Now military is about strong Air Force and strong Navy. Ground troops comes last but must be well trained and well equipped with Technology. Bangladesh is in ganghis khan era.
> 
> Back to point, Myanmar, Pakistan and India are also ruled by balls. So their Militaries are also strong enough to be called a military.


Had to agree with you here ...


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Look at Rodrigo Duterte of Philippines, he ordered to produce a report on military modernization program. In the last six month, he authorized $5.46 billions to procure two squadrons of Gripen E/F, additional squadrons of FA-50.
> This is the difference between ruled by balls and ruled by vagina.


for someone from america, you sure hella sexist

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## Nike

Indos said:


> Ya, Indonesia start to have 8 billion USD is starting at 2013 if I am not mistaken, during 2000-2010 we only have 4 billion USD defense budget. I think Pakistan has already got 8-9 billion USD defense budget since early 2000 where Pakistan keep acquiring fighter until Today (JF 17).
> 
> But for 5 generation fighter induction, the amount of money being spent will be much larger. I think you need to have around 12 billion USD to have a descent amount of 5 generation fighters in your air force. In 2030, 4 generation fighter has already been so obsolete.
> 
> And you need to spend money on Stealth frigates, sub marines, tanks, and missile as well.



The worth mentioning fighter in Pakistan fleet is their 64 or so F16 and 64-128 JF 17, the rest is old Mirage and J7 fleet need to be replaced soon, by 2025 is actually will be dangerous to keep them flying as it will be much older than my father, the actual number worthy mentioned is not so much different from us. 

BTW, alot of Pakistan defense budget is allocated toward their Nuclear weapons project especially for their safety, security and research development including maintenance units and deliver units. Major share allocated toward Army as their got thousands tanks fleets and hundred thousand troops along with thousands artillery units. 

While in Indonesia we are still at growing phase as we don't have many asset to begin with, much fund directed toward Navy and Airforce expansion (50% of procurement funds) . 

Bangladesh got it right actually, except for the air force as they should have more 4 gen fighter and utility Helicopter units than the current ones.

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## Avicenna

Marine Rouge said:


> The worth mentioning fighter in Pakistan fleet is their 64 or so F16 and 64-128 JF 17, the rest is old Mirage and J7 fleet need to be replaced soon, by 2025 is actually will be dangerous to keep them flying as it will be much older than my father, the actual number worthy mentioned is not so much different from us.
> 
> BTW, alot of Pakistan defense budget is allocated toward their Nuclear weapons project especially for their safety, security and research development including maintenance units and deliver units. Major share allocated toward Army as their got thousands tanks fleets and hundred thousand troops along with thousands artillery units.
> 
> While in Indonesia we are still at growing phase as we don't have many asset to begin with, much fund directed toward Navy and Airforce expansion (50% of procurement funds) .
> 
> Bangladesh got it right actually, except for the air force as they should have more 4 gen fighter and utility Helicopter units than the current ones.



Pakistan actually has 76 F-16. And about 100 JF-17.


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## Imran Khan

Marine Rouge said:


> The worth mentioning fighter in Pakistan fleet is their 64 or so F16 and 64-128 JF 17, the rest is old Mirage and J7 fleet need to be replaced soon, by 2025 is actually will be dangerous to keep them flying as it will be much older than my father, the actual number worthy mentioned is not so much different from us.
> 
> BTW, alot of Pakistan defense budget is allocated toward their Nuclear weapons project especially for their safety, security and research development including maintenance units and deliver units. Major share allocated toward Army as their got thousands tanks fleets and hundred thousand troops along with thousands artillery units.
> 
> While in Indonesia we are still at growing phase as we don't have many asset to begin with, much fund directed toward Navy and Airforce expansion (50% of procurement funds) .
> 
> Bangladesh got it right actually, except for the air force as they should have more 4 gen fighter and utility Helicopter units than the current ones.


total 85 f16 were delivered to pakistan 76 are active . do you think ait force is just fighter jets force ? 

we have biggest fleet of AWACS in south asia
transport have a nice fleet 
refulers and heavy lifters trainers drones choppers etc are also part of airforce . nuclear budget come under SPD .

now please come back on topic its bangladesh air force thread

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Pakistan actually has 76 F-16. And about 100 JF-17.




With budget of around 9 billion US dollars and the JF-17 fleet will grow to 150.
No idea why people think BD cannot afford 160 fighters by 2030.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> With budget of around 9 billion US dollars and the JF-17 fleet will grow to 150.
> No idea why people think BD cannot afford 160 fighters by 2030.



@polanski is correct on this one.

Look at the Phillipines. Gonna go out and get some Gripens and FA-50.

BAF is pathetic. Bengalis talk but dont do. You and I both know this.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> @polanski is correct on this one.
> 
> Look at the Phillipines. Gonna go out and get some Gripens and FA-50.
> 
> BAF is pathetic. Bengalis talk but dont do. You and I both know this.



Agree on the talk part but money is NOT the issue.

BD economy is 300 billion US dollars and growing at 8% a year, and forecast to be one of the fastest growing economies till 2030.
2019 will be the year to finally know whether AL talks or actually does.
Let us wait and see next year I say.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> for someone from america, you sure hella sexist


Bro, I will be voting Republican this midterm. I am not denying the fact. You can read post. Hate me but I like Trump.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Bro, I will be voting Republican this midterm. I am not denying the fact. You can read post. Hate me but I like Trump.


I won’t hate you for liking trump... he’s a realist. He does what he says, be it good or bad. Others are bunch of weak spined slime

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Agree on the talk part but money is NOT the issue.
> 
> BD economy is 300 billion US dollars and growing at 8% a year, and forecast to be one of the fastest growing economies till 2030.
> 2019 will be the year to finally know whether AL talks or actually does.
> Let us wait and see next year I say.



Money is just one aspect. Hopefully, the economy will continue to improve.

But the bigger issue is political and one of a lack of vision.

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## mb444

polanski said:


> Good Luck with that.
> Don't tell me that Bangladesh military has fixed their constipation of brain. The most inept organization in South and Southeast Asia. Bangladesh is also ruled by granny who is too afraid to make any decision. The Granny is the puppet of India.
> 
> Look at Rodrigo Duterte of Philippines, he ordered to produce a report on military modernization program. In the last six month, he authorized $5.46 billions to procure two squadrons of Gripen E/F, additional squadrons of FA-50.
> This is the difference between ruled by balls and ruled by vagina.
> 
> During Gaghis khan era, military used be just a land force. Now military is about strong Air Force and strong Navy. Ground troops comes last but must be well trained and well equipped with Technology. Bangladesh is in ganghis khan era.
> 
> Back to point, Myanmar, Pakistan and India are also ruled by balls. So their Militaries are also strong enough to be called a military.




Ruled by a woman has advantage in that they will prioritise feeding and clothing and educating her people over military.

I am no fan of hasina but I would personally have her then some blowhard crackpot wasting money. BD needs to improve BAF but not over basic priorities of the population.

BD is a fortress nation and we do not have anyone near us who is crazy enough to take on a nation of 160 million.

Hasina for all her fault is a shrewd operator and believe can put BD into a trajectory to becoming a developed nation within 20 years.

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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> Good Luck with that.
> Don't tell me that Bangladesh military has fixed their constipation of brain. The most inept organization in South and Southeast Asia. Bangladesh is also ruled by granny who is too afraid to make any decision. The Granny is the puppet of India.
> 
> Look at Rodrigo Duterte of Philippines, he ordered to produce a report on military modernization program. In the last six month, he authorized $5.46 billions to procure two squadrons of Gripen E/F, additional squadrons of FA-50.
> This is the difference between ruled by balls and ruled by vagina.
> 
> During Gaghis khan era, military used be just a land force. Now military is about strong Air Force and strong Navy. Ground troops comes last but must be well trained and well equipped with Technology. Bangladesh is in ganghis khan era.
> 
> Back to point, Myanmar, Pakistan and India are also ruled by balls. So their Militaries are also strong enough to be called a military.




You sound really butt-hurt at BD military, especially the airforce?

OK, you think that BD will lose in a war with Myanmar?

1. BN is far superior to MN. BN is strong enough that the SAM systems on it's 3(soon to be 5) ships can put even up a stiff defence against MAF. MN will be sunk if they dare venture out into the Bay of Bengal by the modernised Ming-035Gs of the BN.

2. The professional BA infantry would make light work of the Barmans in northern Arakan. MAF would be severely restricted by the 2 regiments of FM-90 SAMs that BA has procured last year. FM-90 SAM is a world-class short range SAM that can simultaneously attack 3 targets out to a distance of 15km. Anyway the forests and mountains of Arakan would aid BA infantry to cover themselves from any air-attack.

3.BAF is the one area where there is serious concern. It is 2018 and the only 4th generation fighters that the air-force has is 8 Mig-29s that came into service back in 2001. Now guess who cancelled the order for 16 + 16 options of Mig-29s that AL signed with Russia in 1999 when they came into power in 2001? It is none other than the useless BNP!
But being fair, AL does not really have an excuse why after nearly 10 years in power, not a single squadron of 4th generation fighters has joined the BAF. AL only authorised the money to allow BAF to tender for fighter aircraft at the start of last year. This tender was completely messed up by BAF which can be blamed on them - hopefully BAF has learned from this.

You may not like Hasina but she has delivered economic growth like never before. All major world organisations see a robust BD economy for the next 10-15 years at least. We shall see next year whether she is serious about making the BAF into a world-class fighting force by 2030.

You see BD military can even go on the offensive against Myanmar but the problem now is the BAF lacks the fighter squadrons to protect vital assets like Chittagong port from MAF. All it would take is 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters for BAF and Myanmar would again be a severe military disadvantage against BD.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> You sound really butt-hurt at BD military, especially the airforce?
> 
> OK, you think that BD will lose in a war with Myanmar?
> 
> 1. BN is far superior to MN. BN is strong enough that the SAM systems on it's 3(soon to be 5) ships can put even up a stiff defence against MAF. MN will be sunk if they dare venture out into the Bay of Bengal by the modernised Ming-035Gs of the BN.
> 
> 2. The professional BA infantry would make light work of the Barmans in northern Arakan. MAF would be severely restricted by the 2 regiments of FM-90 SAMs that BA has procured last year. FM-90 SAM is a world-class short range SAM that can simultaneously attack 3 targets out to a distance of 15km. Anyway the forests and mountains of Arakan would aid BA infantry to cover themselves from any air-attack.
> 
> 3.BAF is the one area where there is serious concern. It is 2018 and the only 4th generation fighters that the air-force has is 8 Mig-29s that came into service back in 2001. Now guess who cancelled the order for 16 + 16 options of Mig-29s that AL signed with Russia in 1999 when they came into power in 2001? It is none other than the useless BNP!
> But being fair, AL does not really have an excuse why after nearly 10 years in power, not a single squadron of 4th generation fighters has joined the BAF. AL only authorised the money to allow BAF to tender for fighter aircraft at the start of last year. This tender was completely messed up by BAF which can be blamed on them - hopefully BAF has learned from this.
> 
> You may not like Hasina but she has delivered economic growth like never before. All major world organisations see a robust BD economy for the next 10-15 years at least. We shall see next year whether she is serious about making the BAF into a world-class fighting force by 2030.
> 
> You see BD military can even go on the offensive against Myanmar but the problem now is the BAF lacks the fighter squadrons to protect vital assets like Chittagong port from MAF. All it would take is 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters for BAF and Myanmar would again be a severe military disadvantage against BD.



LOL.

I would like to partake in the illicit substances that have caused you to write this.

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## Hassan Guy

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> I would like to partake in the illicit substances that have caused you to write this.


hit me up

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> I would like to partake in the illicit substances that have caused you to write this.




LOL?

Any actual analysis or just a quick one line troll?


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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> You sound really butt-hurt at BD military, especially the airforce?
> 
> OK, you think that BD will lose in a war with Myanmar?
> 
> 1. BN is far superior to MN. BN is strong enough that the SAM systems on it's 3(soon to be 5) ships can put even up a stiff defence against MAF. MN will be sunk if they dare venture out into the Bay of Bengal by the modernised Ming-035Gs of the BN.
> 
> 2. The professional BA infantry would make light work of the Barmans in northern Arakan. MAF would be severely restricted by the 2 regiments of FM-90 SAMs that BA has procured last year. FM-90 SAM is a world-class short range SAM that can simultaneously attack 3 targets out to a distance of 15km. Anyway the forests and mountains of Arakan would aid BA infantry to cover themselves from any air-attack.
> 
> 3.BAF is the one area where there is serious concern. It is 2018 and the only 4th generation fighters that the air-force has is 8 Mig-29s that came into service back in 2001. Now guess who cancelled the order for 16 + 16 options of Mig-29s that AL signed with Russia in 1999 when they came into power in 2001? It is none other than the useless BNP!
> But being fair, AL does not really have an excuse why after nearly 10 years in power, not a single squadron of 4th generation fighters has joined the BAF. AL only authorised the money to allow BAF to tender for fighter aircraft at the start of last year. This tender was completely messed up by BAF which can be blamed on them - hopefully BAF has learned from this.
> 
> You may not like Hasina but she has delivered economic growth like never before. All major world organisations see a robust BD economy for the next 10-15 years at least. We shall see next year whether she is serious about making the BAF into a world-class fighting force by 2030.
> 
> You see BD military can even go on the offensive against Myanmar but the problem now is the BAF lacks the fighter squadrons to protect vital assets like Chittagong port from MAF. All it would take is 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters for BAF and Myanmar would again be a severe military disadvantage against BD.


Wow! Just wow!


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> LOL?
> 
> Any actual analysis or just a quick one line troll?



Actually, I will try to offer my opinion at a later time.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> No man. Carry on.



You are the kind of person that gets impressed by some fancy jets and thinks that is all.

I suggest you start by studying 1973 Arab-Israeli war and see how decent SAM systems can blunt an advanced air-force - Myanmar is far from this btw.

Once you have done this, you may have a different perspective.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> I would like to partake in the illicit substances that have caused you to write this.


Share a bud with your brother here

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## khanasifm

Turning into Another thread of x vs y or BD vs ...  

Not sure [emoji848] .... why it’s always about the other guy  

Thread is about bd af and its capabilities etc keep political views out of it

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## Devilduck

UKBengali said:


> You sound really butt-hurt at BD military, especially the airforce?
> 
> OK, you think that BD will lose in a war with Myanmar?
> 
> 1. BN is far superior to MN. BN is strong enough that the SAM systems on it's 3(soon to be 5) ships can put even up a stiff defence against MAF. MN will be sunk if they dare venture out into the Bay of Bengal by the modernised Ming-035Gs of the BN.
> 
> 2. The professional BA infantry would make light work of the Barmans in northern Arakan. MAF would be severely restricted by the 2 regiments of FM-90 SAMs that BA has procured last year. FM-90 SAM is a world-class short range SAM that can simultaneously attack 3 targets out to a distance of 15km. Anyway the forests and mountains of Arakan would aid BA infantry to cover themselves from any air-attack.
> 
> 3.BAF is the one area where there is serious concern. It is 2018 and the only 4th generation fighters that the air-force has is 8 Mig-29s that came into service back in 2001. Now guess who cancelled the order for 16 + 16 options of Mig-29s that AL signed with Russia in 1999 when they came into power in 2001? It is none other than the useless BNP!
> But being fair, AL does not really have an excuse why after nearly 10 years in power, not a single squadron of 4th generation fighters has joined the BAF. AL only authorised the money to allow BAF to tender for fighter aircraft at the start of last year. This tender was completely messed up by BAF which can be blamed on them - hopefully BAF has learned from this.
> 
> You may not like Hasina but she has delivered economic growth like never before. All major world organisations see a robust BD economy for the next 10-15 years at least. We shall see next year whether she is serious about making the BAF into a world-class fighting force by 2030.
> 
> You see BD military can even go on the offensive against Myanmar but the problem now is the BAF lacks the fighter squadrons to protect vital assets like Chittagong port from MAF. All it would take is 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters for BAF and Myanmar would again be a severe military disadvantage against BD.


How many jungle warfare BAF had engaged before and how many victories you had before my man?

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## Nike

Myanmar got decent Air Defense system, much better than Bd I would say on paper. 

Their modernized kvadrat m, Buk, Shilka, numerous 2-23 mm aa gun and mobile manpads units will be pain in the ***

Bd doesn't have modern AA gun system I recall

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## UKBengali

Marine Rouge said:


> Myanmar got decent Air Defense system, much better than Bd I would say on paper.
> 
> Their modernized kvadrat m, Buk, Shilka, numerous 2-23 mm aa gun and mobile manpads units will be pain in the ***
> 
> Bd doesn't have modern AA gun system I recall



BD lacks in medium-sized SAM for sure.
Army is now equipped with plenty of FM-90C SAMs. These will inflict a severe toll on MAF.
Tenders out now for man portable SAM, long range guided MLRS and landing craft as well.


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## The Ronin

MRSAM is coming next year or later. Procurement process is ongoing. 



Marine Rouge said:


> Bd doesn't have modern AA gun system I recall



Either we received or waiting for delivery of our 35mm Oerlikon GDF-009.

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## ghost250

Touch and go performed by BAFs f-7bg and f-7bgi in BAF base bashar(tejgaon)...





__ https://www.facebook.com/






credit-DTB

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## polanski

UKBengali said:


> You sound really butt-hurt at BD military, especially the airforce?
> 
> OK, you think that BD will lose in a war with Myanmar?
> 
> 1. BN is far superior to MN. BN is strong enough that the SAM systems on it's 3(soon to be 5) ships can put even up a stiff defence against MAF. MN will be sunk if they dare venture out into the Bay of Bengal by the modernised Ming-035Gs of the BN.
> 
> 2. The professional BA infantry would make light work of the Barmans in northern Arakan. MAF would be severely restricted by the 2 regiments of FM-90 SAMs that BA has procured last year. FM-90 SAM is a world-class short range SAM that can simultaneously attack 3 targets out to a distance of 15km. Anyway the forests and mountains of Arakan would aid BA infantry to cover themselves from any air-attack.
> 
> 3.BAF is the one area where there is serious concern. It is 2018 and the only 4th generation fighters that the air-force has is 8 Mig-29s that came into service back in 2001. Now guess who cancelled the order for 16 + 16 options of Mig-29s that AL signed with Russia in 1999 when they came into power in 2001? It is none other than the useless BNP!
> But being fair, AL does not really have an excuse why after nearly 10 years in power, not a single squadron of 4th generation fighters has joined the BAF. AL only authorised the money to allow BAF to tender for fighter aircraft at the start of last year. This tender was completely messed up by BAF which can be blamed on them - hopefully BAF has learned from this.
> 
> You may not like Hasina but she has delivered economic growth like never before. All major world organisations see a robust BD economy for the next 10-15 years at least. We shall see next year whether she is serious about making the BAF into a world-class fighting force by 2030.
> 
> You see BD military can even go on the offensive against Myanmar but the problem now is the BAF lacks the fighter squadrons to protect vital assets like Chittagong port from MAF. All it would take is 2-3 squadrons of modern fighters for BAF and Myanmar would again be a severe military disadvantage against BD.



You have serious constipation of brain, dumbo! 
MAF has 31 Mig-29MB. China recently supplied JF-17 with long range anti-ship and anti-radiation missile. Soon there will be six Su-30SME. There will be more anti-ship and anti-radiation missile plus the long range guided missile. 

Go to back school and study little bit about math and physics. Bangladesh will have zero chance to react if MAF decides to pre-emptive strike against Bangladeshi vital infrastructure. You have few MANPAD and HQ-7. 

How do you cover your arse from 250km range anti-ship and anti-radiation missile. 

You are dreaming and your pathetic propaganda sucks! Keep driving Trust Cab and manufacture ice cream.

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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> You have serious constipation of brain, dumbo!
> MAF has 31 Mig-29MB. China recently supplied JF-17 with long range anti-ship and anti-radiation missile. Soon there will be six Su-30SME. There will be more anti-ship and anti-radiation missile plus the long range guided missile.
> 
> Go to back school and study little bit about math and physics. Bangladesh will have zero chance to react if MAF decides to pre-emptive strike against Bangladeshi vital infrastructure. You have few MANPAD and HQ-7.
> 
> How do you cover your arse from 250km range anti-ship and anti-radiation missile.
> 
> You are dreaming and your pathetic propaganda sucks! Keep driving Trust Cab and manufacture ice cream.



Can we cut out the insults dude as you sound like a complete twit?

FM-90 same as HQ-7? Dude it is one generation ahead. There are around a dozen batteries available where each has 12 missiles and can target 3 targets at any one time out to 15km. That can seriously blunt MAF which is not that large(~50 modern fighters after both JF-17 and Su-30 are inducted)

I also do not think that BD yet has any Manpads as it has just tendered to both Chinese and Western suppliers for manpad. Try and get your facts straight next time.

Now did I say that BD can defend infrastructure? Of course I conceded that point and that is the main reason that BD cannot go to war against savages at this point. AL has to take responsibility for not having at least inducted at least one squadron of 4th generation fighters after nearly 10 years in power and some MRSAM to defend Chittagong and Dhaka would not have gone amiss either.

But to say that Myanmar will easily beat BD in war just because it has a superior airforce is ridiculous. Egypt was able to hold off the far more numerous and more advanced for it's time Jewish airforce in 1973 just by using SAMs and anti-aircraft guns. Yes BD will take heavy losses but that does not mean that BD will lose on the ground against the rag-tag savages army.

Study and learn a bit of military history and then talk.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> You are the kind of person that gets impressed by some fancy jets and thinks that is all.
> 
> I suggest you start by studying 1973 Arab-Israeli war and see how decent SAM systems can blunt an advanced air-force - Myanmar is far from this btw.
> 
> Once you have done this, you may have a different perspective.



Actually I'm the exact opposite of that "type of person".

Just to address a few points with some random unrelated thoughts.

1) BAF at this point couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag. If the way it botched the MRCA tender is any reflection of its competence. I really don't even know what to say. You can forget about "swatting the MAF" or whatever else empty bravado you choose to type.

2) NEVER underestimate your enemy. Truthfully, I doubt Myanmar's training and competence as well. But its better to overestimate your enemy than underestimate them.

3) I'm very aware of history. Specifically the '67 and '73 Arab-Israeli wars. You're comparing apples and oranges.

4) I want BAF and for that matter all of the BD armed services to be strong and capable. But this will need far more than buying fancy and expensive equipment. The people behind the machines have to learn how to effectively employ the systems to achieve specific objectives. And honestly, I'm also concerned about judgement of the policy makers and military strategists that will send or not send these men and women into conflict. 

5) Bangladesh got b*tch slapped in the last year. Let's all be clear about that.

6) @polanski has a point about a distinct lack of masculine aggression with Bangladesh. 

I will try to post later regarding specific military and tactical issues with BAF regarding a potential conflict with Myanmar.

I have no formal training in military affairs. Just a casual interest since i was 4. But I am formally trained in a highly technical and complex field requiring rapid analysis of data and subsequent action with high stakes. 

So as to say my words are not that of some fan boi to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

polanski said:


> Mothball of Bangladesh Air Guard. These stupids are thinking of flying aircraft. This is exactly why Bangladesh does not need an Air Guard. The "Force" word doesn't apply for Bangladesh.
> 
> Besides, BBC reports that Bangladeshi Air wings or Air Guard personnel were *infected with HIV* at UN peacekeeping mission. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1696063.stm
> 
> https://exoatmospheric.wordpress.co...h-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/
> 
> http://hivinemergencies.org/contexts/peacekeeping/
> 
> @Aung Zaya @tarpitz @Nilgiri


I have to break the silence!!!! If it's true what's written in the article then how come BD folks can still laugh????? Shouldn't they pull all their resources to have a decent AF ASAP????? What are they waiting for?????
Some heart-wrenching excerpts from the article (I don't want even my sworn enemy to be in such a precarious condition):

Bangladesh would be the smallest air force with combat capabilities with eight Mig-29s third generation fixed-wing aircraft that are limited in modern capability,– can carry only short-range A2A missile and free-fall bombs. The most important part of it, Bangladesh Air Force or domestically known as BAF’s aircraft are not ready at any time to be mounted with weapons. BAF’s pilots are also prone to crash aircraft in a clear sky.

Bangladesh Air Force doesn’t have the ability to fly at night. By 2018 Bangladesh Air Force became more ineffective, almost all of the BAF’s aircraft couldn’t even fly not because of the aircraft because of the pilots who are barely trained to fly. 

During the 2017 stand-off with Myanmar, the Myanmar Air Force was able to fly helicopter and drones over Bangladeshi airspace for more than 72 hours without any reciprocation from Bangladesh Air Force or the Army. Bangladeshi politicians resort to knocking the Chinese doorstep to help them bail out from an embarrassing situation.

In the 2017 confrontation with Myanmar (who also under sanctions by the West for ethnic cleansing) launched a series of provocation to Bangladesh with _a constant threat to wiping out the vital infrastructure of Bangladesh like the Chittagong Seaport, Chittagong Airport and Cox Bazar airbase, _Bangladesh resort to China to intervene and resolve the stand-off. Meanwhile, Bangladeshi politicians try to sort out the dispute whilst Bangladesh Air Force steps aside like a bystander.

The Myanmar Air Force which currently operates thirty-one Mig-29BM,–placed order for six Su-30SME and 16 JF17 from Pakistan. _On the first day of any war, Bangladesh’s primitive airbases which are also used by civilian aero planes could have been taken out of the equation if a war broke between Bangladesh and Myanmar._

Bangladesh media reported that BAF’s pilots get something like 20 flight hours a year. And when they do train, fuel reserves for actual flying are so scarce that their primary simulator is their imagination.
Little effort to modernise the military, *corruption, diversion of funds, primitive military infrastructure, poor management decision and poorly trained pilots* contributed to the current state. _*Bangladesh Army and Navy could be under potential threat of extinction by any regional air force while their air cover is away.*_



Avicenna said:


> Actually I'm the exact opposite of that "type of person".
> 
> Just to address a few points with some random unrelated thoughts.
> 
> 1) BAF at this point couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag. If the way it botched the MRCA tender is any reflection of its competence. I really don't even know what to say. You can forget about "swatting the MAF" or whatever else empty bravado you choose to type.
> 
> 2) NEVER underestimate your enemy. Truthfully, I doubt Myanmar's training and competence as well. But its better to overestimate your enemy than underestimate them.
> 
> 3) I'm very aware of history. Specifically the '67 and '73 Arab-Israeli wars. You're comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> 4) I want BAF and for that matter all of the BD armed services to be strong and capable. But this will need far more than buying fancy and expensive equipment. The people behind the machines have to learn how to effectively employ the systems to achieve specific objectives. And honestly, I'm also concerned about judgement of the policy makers and military strategists that will send or not send these men and women into conflict.
> 
> 5) Bangladesh got b*tch slapped in the last year. Let's all be clear about that.
> 
> 6) @polanski has a point about a distinct lack of masculine aggression with Bangladesh.
> 
> I will try to post later regarding specific military and tactical issues with BAF regarding a potential conflict with Myanmar.
> 
> I have no formal training in military affairs. Just a casual interest since i was 4. But I am formally trained in a highly technical and complex field requiring rapid analysis of data and subsequent action with high stakes.
> 
> So as to say my words are not that of some fan boi to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.


Many a great pilot in the PAF was from the East Pak....

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## polanski

UKBengali said:


> Can we cut out the insults dude as you sound like a complete twit?
> 
> FM-90 same as HQ-7? Dude it is one generation ahead. There are around a dozen batteries available where each has 12 missiles and can target 3 targets at any one time out to 15km. That can seriously blunt MAF which is not that large(~50 modern fighters after both JF-17 and Su-30 are inducted)
> 
> I also do not think that BD yet has any Manpads as it has just tendered to both Chinese and Western suppliers for manpad. Try and get your facts straight next time.
> 
> Now did I say that BD can defend infrastructure? Of course I conceded that point and that is the main reason that BD cannot go to war against savages at this point. AL has to take responsibility for not having at least inducted at least one squadron of 4th generation fighters after nearly 10 years in power and some MRSAM to defend Chittagong and Dhaka would not have gone amiss either.
> 
> But to say that Myanmar will easily beat BD in war just because it has a superior airforce is ridiculous. Egypt was able to hold off the far more numerous and more advanced for it's time Jewish airforce in 1973 just by using SAMs and anti-aircraft guns. Yes BD will take heavy losses but that does not mean that BD will lose on the ground against the rag-tag savages army.
> 
> Study and learn a bit of military history and then talk.



You need to study military history first. Do not post half-truth. 
Israeli Air Force launched pre-emptive strike on Egypt, Syria and Jordan to wipe out airbases. Then Israeli Army slaughtered Egyptian and Syrian armies. Read the history again aka six days Arab Israeli war. 

Why do you think Jordan and Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel because they don't want to be f$cked by Israel again. 

BTW HQ-7 is not that good, off course not great. HQ-7 has zero effect against stand-off weapons. 

Russian SAM is useless against low observable stand-off weapons and fighter jets. Check the fact. Don't mix your propaganda BS with reality.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

polanski said:


> You need to study military history first. Do not post half-truth.
> Israeli Air Force launched pre-emptive strike on Egypt, Syria and Jordan to wipe out airbases. Then Israeli Army slaughtered Egyptian and Syrian armies. Read the history again aka six days Arab Israeli war.
> 
> Why do you think Jordan and Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel because they don't want to be f$cked by Israel again.
> 
> BTW HQ-7 is not that good, off course not great. HQ-7 has zero effect against stand-off weapons.
> 
> Russian SAM is useless against low observable stand-off weapons and fighter jets. Check the fact. Don't mix your propaganda BS with reality.


I just wish that JF17s along with the entire weapons package aren't used against BD!!!! The problem is the PAF is also a part of the selling team!!! It means they might be required to train the Burmese pilots!!!! And, that's a deadly combination!!! I hope they hold the Burmese pilots to a lower training regime...

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## Homo Sapiens

UKBengali said:


> But to say that Myanmar will easily beat BD in war just because it has a superior airforce is ridiculous. Egypt was able to hold off the far more numerous and more advanced for it's time Jewish airforce in 1973 just by using SAMs and anti-aircraft guns. Yes BD will take heavy losses but that does not mean that BD will lose on the ground against the rag-tag savages army.


You are mostly right in this part. Air force alone can not win the war unless it enjoy overwhelming superiority against the opponent. Myanmar has bigger air force than Bangladesh, no doubt.But experts say that, it's maintenance is very poor. So how many of their Mig-29 is currently air worthy, is a big question. Their Su-30 and JF-17 is yet to come. So, statistically Myanmar airforce do not have wider margin superiority against BAF and air defence of Bangladesh yet. But it may change once their Su-30 and jf-17 join the force and if BAF continue to their legendary foot dragging.


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## Bengal Tiger 71

This AL govt. ruling BD 10 years, at least 1 sqd. they should buy 4+ gen. fighter,BAF are reorgananizing, new bases, training jets are coming but we can't open our sky.this no purchasing decision BD has gone 15 years behind from others.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Actually I'm the exact opposite of that "type of person".
> 
> Just to address a few points with some random unrelated thoughts.
> 
> 1) BAF at this point couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag. If the way it botched the MRCA tender is any reflection of its competence. I really don't even know what to say. You can forget about "swatting the MAF" or whatever else empty bravado you choose to type.
> 
> 2) NEVER underestimate your enemy. Truthfully, I doubt Myanmar's training and competence as well. But its better to overestimate your enemy than underestimate them.
> 
> 3) I'm very aware of history. Specifically the '67 and '73 Arab-Israeli wars. You're comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> 4) I want BAF and for that matter all of the BD armed services to be strong and capable. But this will need far more than buying fancy and expensive equipment. The people behind the machines have to learn how to effectively employ the systems to achieve specific objectives. And honestly, I'm also concerned about judgement of the policy makers and military strategists that will send or not send these men and women into conflict.
> 
> 5) Bangladesh got b*tch slapped in the last year. Let's all be clear about that.
> 
> 6) @polanski has a point about a distinct lack of masculine aggression with Bangladesh.
> 
> I will try to post later regarding specific military and tactical issues with BAF regarding a potential conflict with Myanmar.
> 
> I have no formal training in military affairs. Just a casual interest since i was 4. But I am formally trained in a highly technical and complex field requiring rapid analysis of data and subsequent action with high stakes.
> 
> So as to say my words are not that of some fan boi to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.



Please say where I said BAF can take down MAF.?
Whatever field you are in has no relevance to this discussion.
Again read about October war of 1973 and try to learn something about how effective modern SAM's are against highly advanced strike aircraft and then come back.

Just some clueless fanboys I am talking to here again.


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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> clueless fanboys


That is you mate...

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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> You need to study military history first. Do not post half-truth.
> Israeli Air Force launched pre-emptive strike on Egypt, Syria and Jordan to wipe out airbases. Then Israeli Army slaughtered Egyptian and Syrian armies. Read the history again aka six days Arab Israeli war.
> 
> Why do you think Jordan and Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel because they don't want to be f$cked by Israel again.
> 
> BTW HQ-7 is not that good, off course not great. HQ-7 has zero effect against stand-off weapons.
> 
> Russian SAM is useless against low observable stand-off weapons and fighter jets. Check the fact. Don't mix your propaganda BS with reality.




Dude, you even know the difference between the 1967 war where the Jewish air-force wiped out the Arab airforces in a pre-emptive strike, and the 1973 one where Egyptian and Syrian SAMs and anti-aircraft guns grounded an airforce that was far larger and more advanced than the Myanmar one even after all the JF-17s and SU-30SMEs have joined the fleet?
I am not interested in teaching you basics and so please Google and learn a bit about military warfare.

FM-90 SAM not that good? LOL it is more than sufficient to protect BD army against Myanmarese air-attack if BD was to get involved in a war against the Barman army.
You clearly have not read my previous posts properly but here are the capabilities of just one FM-90 battery of which BD has 12 or so in total and rising:

https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newsbaf-inducts-fm-90-missile-system/

FM-90 has one command vehicle with 3 launchers of 4 missiles each giving total of 12 missiles.
Simultaneous attack of 3 targets out to 15-17km.

See FM-90 is not a point defence missile and has enough simultaneous target ability and range to down score after score of Barman jets.

Russian SAMs? You aware that FM-90 SAM is an enhanced version of the reverse engineered French Crotale SAM?

You are pretty clueless as can be seen but unfortunately there are a few BD'shi juveniles on pdf that have been impressed by your nonsense so far.


----------



## Michael Corleone

At the end of the day... a small rag tag air force like BAF or MAF can’t accomplish the objectives their respective countries desire.


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## AMG_12

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you even know the difference between the 1967 war where the Jewish air-force wiped out the Arab airforces in a pre-emptive strike, and the 1973 one where Egyptian and Syrian SAMs and anti-aircraft guns grounded an airforce that was far larger and more advanced than the Myanmar one even after all the JF-17s and SU-30SMEs have joined the fleet?
> I am not interested in teaching you basics and so please Google and learn a bit about military warfare.
> 
> FM-90 SAM not that good? LOL it is more than sufficient to protect BD army against Myanmarese air-attack if BD was to get involved in a war against the Barman army.
> You clearly have not read my previous posts properly but here are the capabilities of just one FM-90 battery of which BD has 12 or so in total and rising:
> 
> https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newsbaf-inducts-fm-90-missile-system/
> 
> FM-90 has one command vehicle with 3 launchers of 4 missiles each giving total of 12 missiles.
> Simultaneous attack of 3 targets out to 15-17km.
> 
> See FM-90 is not a point defence missile and has enough simultaneous target ability and range to down score after score of Barman jets.
> 
> Russian SAMs? You aware that FM-90 SAM is an enhanced version of the reverse engineered French Crotale SAM?
> 
> You are pretty clueless as can be seen but unfortunately there are a few BD'shi juveniles on pdf that have been impressed by your nonsense so far.


FM90 is short range AD system used for point defence or in armoured columns as AD umbrella. We have been using it since it's inception (the French Crotale from where it originated and on to it's Chinese variants). I don't think it offers any thing extra as claimed by you. I don't think BD military stand a chance if Myanmar air force procures standoff weapons with Thunders and SU fighters which they certainly would.

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## UKBengali

Game.Invade said:


> FM90 is short range AD system used for point defence or in armoured columns as AD umbrella. We have been using it since it's inception (the French Crotale from where it originated and on to it's Chinese variants). I don't think it offers any thing extra as claimed by you. I don't think BD military stand a chance if Myanmar air force procures standoff weapons with Thunders and SU fighters which they certainly would.




Dude, are you even thinking about the scenario that I am painting before you post?

In a land conflict between BD army and the savages, MAF can only get involved by providing CAS. They need to come in close to be able to effectively hit the BD army in the field. This is where the sophisticated FM-90 comes into play with it's ability to hit missiles, drones, helicopters and planes flying at ground level all the way to 6km up in the air.
Each FM-90 battery has 12 missiles and they can attack 3 targets simultaneously out to a distance of 15-17km. This makes it a very formidable weapon to protect an army against numerous attacking CAS aircraft.
MAF aircraft will be shot down in droves if they want to get involved in any land conflict between BD and Myanmar.

The best use of the MAF is to attack cities and other infrastructure as BAF is weak and BD lacks MRSAM at this moment in time.

If they were employed against BN, there will soon be 5 ships that will have close-range SAM defences and so they will need to fire a lot of missiles(many dozens) to be able to cripple the BD Navy. But soon everything will change when the next-gen air-defence frigates start rolling out with their MFR AESA radars and dozens of VLS silos housing medium range SAMs.

Yep, BAF is letting the side down but both BA and BN are preparing for having to fight without proper airforce.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Game.Invade said:


> FM90 is short range AD system used for point defence or in armoured columns as AD umbrella. We have been using it since it's inception (the French Crotale from where it originated and on to it's Chinese variants). I don't think it offers any thing extra as claimed by you. I don't think BD military stand a chance if Myanmar air force procures standoff weapons with Thunders and SU fighters which they certainly would.


Looks like JF17 isn't just a war plane, it's a war plan!!!! And, that may be their marketing pitch!!! With these plethora of weapons, WVR/BVR/EW capability, newer blocks on-line with enhanced capabilities, training from a top-class standing AF itself etc. should entice the folks who really want to have an edge....

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## truthseeker2010

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Looks like JF17 isn't just a war plane, it's a war plan!!!! And, that may be their marketing pitch!!! With these plethora of weapons, WVR/BVR/EW capability, newer blocks on-line with enhanced capabilities, training from a top-class standing AF itself etc. should entice the folks who really want to have an edge....



You forgot one important thing, BD's behavior towards Pak since Haseena, you reap what you sow...........

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

truthseeker2010 said:


> You forgot one important thing, BD's behavior towards Pak since Haseena, you reap what you sow...........


Only if hanging/jailing pro-Pak old BD Muslim folks could have solved their strategic and security issues!!!! BD has now almost no leverage whatsoever in any negotiations with her any neighbors!!! Like a beast of burden her job is to keep on carrying the exponentially increasing weightage - be it Rohingas, Muslims in Assam etc. or anything else - and, that too with a smile!!!! It's like kissing the very dagger which is approaching toward one's throat!!! _Allah Kahr etsin..._

Now, the _Ehl-i Iman_ understand the significance of the following picture: BD is destined to be disposed at the mercy of her overwhelmingly non-Muslim neighbors....

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## TopCat

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Only if hanging/jailing pro-Pak old BD Muslim folks could have solved their strategic and security issues!!!! BD has now almost no leverage whatsoever in any negotiations with her any neighbors!!! Like a beast of burden her job is to keep on carrying the exponentially increasing weightage - be it Rohingas, Muslims in Assam etc. or anything else - and, that too with a smile!!!! It's like kissing the very dagger which is approaching toward one's throat!!! _Allah Kahr etsin..._
> 
> Now, the _Ehl-i Iman_ understand the significance of the following picture: BD is destined to be disposed at the mercy of her overwhelmingly non-Muslim neighbors....
> 
> View attachment 510993


@M_Saint became a Turk now.. . You can change the flag but cant change who you are.

Its not the first time Muslim army faced humiliation. It does not matter whether you are muslim or no, but it matters whether you are in the right side of the morality or not. Muslim usually the one first screw the morality part.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Dude, are you even thinking about the scenario that I am painting before you post?
> 
> In a land conflict between BD army and the savages, MAF can only get involved by providing CAS. They need to come in close to be able to effectively hit the BD army in the field. This is where the sophisticated FM-90 comes into play with it's ability to hit missiles, drones, helicopters and planes flying at ground level all the way to 6km up in the air.
> Each FM-90 battery has 12 missiles and they can attack 3 targets simultaneously out to a distance of 15-17km. This makes it a very formidable weapon to protect an army against numerous attacking CAS aircraft.
> MAF aircraft will be shot down in droves if they want to get involved in any land conflict between BD and Myanmar.
> 
> The best use of the MAF is to attack cities and other infrastructure as BAF is weak and BD lacks MRSAM at this moment in time.
> 
> If they were employed against BN, there will soon be 5 ships that will have close-range SAM defences and so they will need to fire a lot of missiles(many dozens) to be able to cripple the BD Navy. But soon everything will change when the next-gen air-defence frigates start rolling out with their MFR AESA radars and dozens of VLS silos housing medium range SAMs.
> 
> Yep, BAF is letting the side down but both BA and BN are preparing for having to fight without proper airforce.




Yours is a best case scenario.... the fact on the ground is BAF is a joke and at this moment leaves BN and BA dangerously exposed.

BD needs to sort BAF but in all seriousness the level of degradation is such that it's going to take too long. As I suggested before, it may be better to to sack the the leadership, rebadge and relaunch with a new purpose for the medium term under the leadership of competent officers of the BA and BN.

Money is tight, rather than buying a few jets in the short term that would not pose a threat quantitatively or quantitatively to our neighbours divert the money towards acquiring indigenous SAM capabilities and build a massive arsenal similar to Iranian strategy. 

Develop the new look BAF for the short term as ancillary support force for BA and BN, by this I mean assist in Ariel intelligence, surveillance and movement of man and material.


In the medium term develop BAF as integrated support function for BA and BN with appropriate assets that will provide air cover in land and sea.

Finally in the long term plan for a BAF that is an bona fide arm of the military with offensive assets that is able to strike deep and hard into enemy territory.

In SAMs we should concentrate and raise a 4th arm of our military. BAFs issues are deep and will take time to resolve. We must innovatively address the gaps in our defense immediately and prepare for a strong and purposeful BAF in time.

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## ghost250

#BAHExclusive | HISTORY MADE | DEFENDERS AT OLD AIRPORT | Just some minutes ago 4x F-7 landed at Old Airport, Tejgaon aka BAF Base Bashar, Tejgaon. 

After PM’s order to use and utilize this airport today 2x F-7BG1 and 2x F-7BG landed in this airport. This is the first time F-7 landed in this airport. Kudos to the pilots for such great landing.
credit-Bangladesh Aviation Hub






THE SCORPIONS| A recently overhauled Bell-212 from ‘Squadron 9 Scorpions’ having a fly by over Tejgaon. These choppers are overhauled by BAF and some are overhauled from Canada. The new paint scheme having the squadron insignia made her more gorgeous.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Yours is a best case scenario.... the fact on the ground is BAF is a joke and at this moment leaves BN and BA dangerously exposed.
> 
> BD needs to sort BAF but in all seriousness the level of degradation is such that it's going to take too long. As I suggested before, it may be better to to sack the the leadership, rebadge and relaunch with a new purpose for the medium term under the leadership of competent officers of the BA and BN.
> 
> Money is tight, rather than buying a few jets in the short term that would not pose a threat quantitatively or quantitatively to our neighbours divert the money towards acquiring indigenous SAM capabilities and build a massive arsenal similar to Iranian strategy.
> 
> Develop the new look BAF for the short term as ancillary support force for BA and BN, by this I mean assist in Ariel intelligence, surveillance and movement of man and material.
> 
> 
> In the medium term develop BAF as integrated support function for BA and BN with appropriate assets that will provide air cover in land and sea.
> 
> Finally in the long term plan for a BAF that is an bona fide arm of the military with offensive assets that is able to strike deep and hard into enemy territory.
> 
> In SAMs we should concentrate and raise a 4th arm of our military. BAFs issues are deep and will take time to resolve. We must innovatively address the gaps in our defense immediately and prepare for a strong and purposeful BAF in time.



Yep, those morons in BAF have purchased another 23K-8W trainers in the summer. This money could have properly modernised all 8 Mig-29s instead.

Totally agree that BA and BN officers need to take over BAF while new leadership emerges from the ranks of the junior officers of the BAF.


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## truthseeker2010

UKBengali said:


> Yep, BAF is letting the side down but both BA and BN are preparing for having to fight without proper airforce.



Without aircover, even the US military would be a sitting duck


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## ghost250

https://defencebangla.com/rumman-ta...3s5fEd8hlUzzmlFNUXV34UTdRAvLFoujrc0_QqY8RZs84


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## TopCat

shourov323 said:


> https://defencebangla.com/rumman-ta...3s5fEd8hlUzzmlFNUXV34UTdRAvLFoujrc0_QqY8RZs84


I m damn sure his ejection seat did not work. Same happened to two of the burmese pilots last month.

Stop spreading fantasy and fiction


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## ghost250

TopCat said:


> I m damn sure his ejection seat did not work. Same happened to two of the burmese pilots last month.
> 
> Stop spreading fantasy and fiction



i can believe whatever i wish ,so do u..stop advising others what to believe or what not..now, shu shu top_pussy saheb....

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## UKBengali

truthseeker2010 said:


> Without aircover, even the US military would be a sitting duck



SAMs and anti-aircraft guns can do the job.
Russian supplied S-300s to Syria are now protecting Syria from
air attacks.

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## truthseeker2010

UKBengali said:


> SAMs and anti-aircraft guns can do the job.
> Russian supplied S-300s to Syria are now protecting Syria from
> air attacks.



Lol, Syrian airspace is the most crowded in the world.


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## UKBengali

truthseeker2010 said:


> Lol, Syrian airspace is the most crowded in the world.




So in the last month, who has attacked the Syrian military or government?

Jews are scared witless and are no longer daring to fly into Syria or even attempting attacks from outside as the S-300 can shoot them down over 100kms outside Syrian airspace.


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## monitor

Saudi acrobatic team will conduct acrobatic shows in Bangladesh for the very first time. Ispr confirmed

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## Avicenna

monitor said:


> View attachment 512343
> Saudi acrobatic team will conduct acrobatic shows in Bangladesh for the very first time. Ispr confirmed



LOL. Useless.


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## mb444

truthseeker2010 said:


> Lol, Syrian airspace is the most crowded in the world.



Syrian airforce hardly did anything when its country was overrun. Syria as a nation state is no more , its population is fractured. The analogy does not apply in any way to BD.

Any external aggression on BD soil will be rebuffed by the entire population. We are a fortress nation. Our differences are political but against external aggression these will be set aside in a moment's notice.

Please do not equate BD to Arab nations none of which are a democracy nor are its leadership accountable to it's people. The dynamics are completely different.

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## ghost250

An AN-124-100 #RA-82044 landed at HSIA with a huge quantity of unknown military equipment from Russia. The photos were shared at #PSBD by Safa Haque‎.

My guess would be hardware for the Army and Air Force. BAF keeps on ordering sizable quantities of spares, testing equipment for Yak-130 whereas the Army already purchased thousands of Russian made Kornet ATGM and Igla-S MANPADS. BAF also ordered 5 Mi-171Sh which were supposed to be delivered this year also.

Thanks for the photos Mr Haque and PSBD.

#PSBDExclusive #BangladeshAirForce #BangladeshArmy

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## Imran Khan

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 512959
> 
> 
> An AN-124-100 #RA-82044 landed at HSIA with a huge quantity of unknown military equipment from Russia. The photos were shared at #PSBD by Safa Haque‎.
> 
> My guess would be hardware for the Army and Air Force. BAF keeps on ordering sizable quantities of spares, testing equipment for Yak-130 whereas the Army already purchased thousands of Russian made Kornet ATGM and Igla-S MANPADS. BAF also ordered 5 Mi-171Sh which were supposed to be delivered this year also.
> 
> Thanks for the photos Mr Haque and PSBD.
> 
> #PSBDExclusive #BangladeshAirForce #BangladeshArmy


Its routine sir these birds always carry support meterial parts etc .

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## Bengal Tiger 71

18 years gone now BAF procuring 4 gen fighter jet Su30. the no. is not a sqd. at least first batch, only 12. when they will fulfill forces goal.very slow procurement & the small no's.


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## UKBengali

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> 18 years gone now BAF procuring 4 gen fighter jet Su30. the no. is not a sqd. at least first batch, only 12. when they will fulfill forces goal.very slow procurement & the small no's.




Fighters are very expensive.

Even 12 SU-30SMEs from Russia will cost 1 billion US dollars when you add in training and weapons.
Infrastructure will be separate cost.

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## The Ronin

BAF issued tender for 200 9mm Sub Machine Guns again and this time only North American and EU countries can participate. 

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/a_doc/2656.pdf

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## ghost250

5*mig29's in formation...

credit-frontlinebd

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> LOL. Useless.


i would have loved to see red sparrows.... i've seen their show in kuwait. have personal experience with one of the pilots who did i nice stunt front of my house. i don't expect the saudis to do much more than some fly past



mb444 said:


> Syria as a nation state is no more , its population is fractured.


i have many syrian friends acquaintances who moved to syria after their graduation... they're studying there without any problems, yes there is a civil war but it still exist as a nation state... no where close to what lybia is now... for which i would agree with what you said


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## The Ronin

BAF issued tender for two surveillance radar ( one primary and one secondary) and Precision Approach Radar (PAR) for BAF base BB. These radar will be procured from US/UK/Japan or EU countries. 

http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2742.pdf

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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 512959
> 
> 
> An AN-124-100 #RA-82044 landed at HSIA with a huge quantity of unknown military equipment from Russia. The photos were shared at #PSBD by Safa Haque‎.
> 
> My guess would be hardware for the Army and Air Force. BAF keeps on ordering sizable quantities of spares, testing equipment for Yak-130 whereas the Army already purchased thousands of Russian made Kornet ATGM and Igla-S MANPADS. BAF also ordered 5 Mi-171Sh which were supposed to be delivered this year also.
> 
> Thanks for the photos Mr Haque and PSBD.
> 
> #PSBDExclusive #BangladeshAirForce #BangladeshArmy


carrying reactor and other related parts for roopur

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## Buddhistforlife

UKBengali said:


> Dude, are you even thinking about the scenario that I am painting before you post?
> 
> In a land conflict between BD army and the savages, MAF can only get involved by providing CAS. They need to come in close to be able to effectively hit the BD army in the field. This is where the sophisticated FM-90 comes into play with it's ability to hit missiles, drones, helicopters and planes flying at ground level all the way to 6km up in the air.
> Each FM-90 battery has 12 missiles and they can attack 3 targets simultaneously out to a distance of 15-17km. This makes it a very formidable weapon to protect an army against numerous attacking CAS aircraft.
> MAF aircraft will be shot down in droves if they want to get involved in any land conflict between BD and Myanmar.
> 
> The best use of the MAF is to attack cities and other infrastructure as BAF is weak and BD lacks MRSAM at this moment in time.
> 
> If they were employed against BN, there will soon be 5 ships that will have close-range SAM defences and so they will need to fire a lot of missiles(many dozens) to be able to cripple the BD Navy. But soon everything will change when the next-gen air-defence frigates start rolling out with their MFR AESA radars and dozens of VLS silos housing medium range SAMs.
> 
> Yep, BAF is letting the side down but both BA and BN are preparing for having to fight without proper airforce.


So according to you Myanmar is a 'Savage' state for protecting its sovereignty and the interest of the majority Buddhist population? Clap clap..

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## UKBengali

Gurkha13 said:


> So according to you Myanmar is a 'Savage' state for protecting its sovereignty and the interest of the majority Buddhist population? Clap clap..




Post already thanked by your fellow savage I see.

Do not worry as people like me will be driving the whole of BD military soon and the airforce will become as powerful as our Army and Navy are. This issue will be settled once and for all in BD's favour with little mercy shown to savages.

Now take your off-topic nonsense elsewhere as this is a BAF thread.

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## Michael Corleone

Gurkha13 said:


> So according to you Myanmar is a 'Savage' state for protecting its sovereignty and the interest of the majority Buddhist population? Clap clap..


your decription matches the description of most western countries term for an apartheid state... and the fact that you guys are savages is nothing new

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## Buddhistforlife

Homo Sapiens said:


> So you are a Bangladeshi tribal from CHT who regularly follow Bengali language facebook posts? Why are you hiding behind burmese and Nepali flag? To spread anti-state propaganda and anti-muslim hatred?


I am 1/5th Burmese, 1/5th Chakma, 1/5th Indian, 1/5th Israeli and 1/5th Nepali Gurkha.


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## Destranator

Gurkha13 said:


> I am 1/5th Burmese, 1/5th Chakma, 1/5th Indian, 1/5th Israeli and 1/5th Nepali Gurkha.


And a 5/5 muppet. Present evidence of BA shooting this kid or piss off.



Aung Zaya said:


> No doubt..!! UN will remain silent on this.



Yes because UN does not have the time or resource to address local robberies gone wrong.

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## Nike

Many irrelevant posts about BD air forces


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> I am 1/5th Burmese, 1/5th Chakma, 1/5th Indian, 1/5th Israeli and 1/5th Nepali Gurkha.


You lost me when you said you’re 1/5 Israeli 
BS

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## Tanveer666

Buddhistforlife said:


> I am 1/5th Burmese, 1/5th Chakma, 1/5th Indian, 1/5th Israeli and 1/5th Nepali Gurkha.


And a 100% mutt.


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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> You lost me when you said you’re 1/5 Israeli
> BS



1/5 doesnt even make sense to begin with. Parts are always halves, quarters , 1/8ths 1/16ths etc because 2 parents for every child.



Tanveer666 said:


> And a 100% mutt.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Imran Khan

Buddhistforlife said:


> I am 1/5th Burmese, 1/5th Chakma, 1/5th Indian, 1/5th Israeli and 1/5th Nepali Gurkha.


better if you stick on one . everyone is son/daughter of one man


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## Buddhistforlife

Imran Khan said:


> better if you stick on one . everyone is son/daughter of one man


Yeah we are all son of adam lol

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## monitor



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## ghost250



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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 521569
> View attachment 521570


still my love for those bell will be ever life

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## Bilal9

Love the paint-scheme on these new AW-139's. 

Going by High-Viz paint and marking, I am guessing the initial few are for SAR and liaison duty. Are they getting any for army air support or is the Mil-17 (even the Bells) the ones for that role?

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## The Ronin



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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


>


finally,MRSAM is coming..

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## mb444

The Ronin said:


>


Utter nonsense.... these idiots needs to be sacked for gross incompetence


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Utter nonsense.... these idiots needs to be sacked for gross incompetence


what's with you?

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## UKBengali

shourov323 said:


> finally,MRSAM is coming..



Any news when?


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> what's with you?



Frustrated I guess.... there has not been any movement with BAF.

Our capabilities are degrading day by day whilst BAF management talks a bunch of crap.

Our army and navy is exposed... Rohingya debacle occured as a direct result of BAF non performance.

These guys are going on about transport aircrafts and radar.... BAF has no teeth...what is the point ..our skies are completely exposed... 

BAF needs complete overhaul. .. the current leadership is hopeless.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Frustrated I guess.... there has not been any movement with BAF.
> 
> Our capabilities are degrading day by day whilst BAF management talks a bunch of crap.
> 
> Our army and navy is exposed... Rohingya debacle occured as a direct result of BAF non performance.
> 
> These guys are going on about transport aircrafts and radar.... BAF has no teeth...what is the point ..our skies are completely exposed...
> 
> BAF needs complete overhaul. .. the current leadership is hopeless.


dude you can't have a less than 1 billion dollar budget and want a good airforce, 
the navy arming is not slowing down anytime soon so if you want to see results you have no other choice but to increase the military budget substantially.
wait until the end of election and more news on the fighter deals before giving up hope but don't have high hopes either.

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> dude you can't have a less than 1 billion dollar budget and want a good airforce,
> the navy arming is not slowing down anytime soon so if you want to see results you have no other choice but to increase the military budget substantially.
> wait until the end of election and more news on the fighter deals before giving up hope but don't have high hopes either.




Since about a quarter of BAF was wiped out in the 90's flooding BAF has been on life support. We have periodic stop gap solution.

Will election make a difference....let's hope so.

If we can not afford jets we need to develop a SAM arsenal just like the Iranians.

BAF needs a doctrine which is missing. It is rudderless moving from one crisis to another.

I do not have a problem with waiting but there has to be a strategy. The current BAF leadership do not have a plan.

If it is to serve as an auxiliary force to BA and BN so be it.... but for sake of the nation there needs to be a strategy and not wasting money on trainers and jets for aerobatics.

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## Homo Sapiens



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## ghost250

UKBengali said:


> Any news when?


our air cheif didnt mention that specific time vai..but he said that it will come in 2019 with long range radar and c-130j..

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> They issued tender for overhauling and life extension of Mig-29 again?
> 
> http://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/2834.pdf


This time these $hit going to India. Keep your finger crossed.


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## UKBengali

shourov323 said:


> our air cheif didnt mention that specific time vai..but he said that it will come in 2019 with long range radar and c-130j..



I think there will be even better news next year for BAF.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> This time these $hit going to India. Keep your finger crossed.


fingers crossed 
not possible, the first line removes any such possibility
"the bidder must be manufacturer/ designer of the aircraft"
i believe the deal will be signed in the meeting in december along with the MRCA deal

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> fingers crossed
> not possible, the first line removes any such possibility
> "the bidder must be manufacturer/ designer of the aircraft"
> i believe the deal will be signed in the meeting in december along with the MRCA deal


There will not be any mrca deal in December.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> There will not be any mrca deal in December.


there is supposed to be a defence meeting with russia though


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## Species

Michael Corleone said:


> there is supposed to be a defence meeting with russia though



They might negotiate but there won't be any deal on the MRCA before elections.


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## ghost250

https://www.baronweather.com/news/b...BWzF__hn2kfkx3NEZvTu6Tdyrsf9iztJYSCfr_03H0bLY

*Bangladesh Air Force Purchase Additional Baron GEN 3 Radar to Expand Network*


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## Michael Corleone

Species said:


> They might negotiate but there won't be any deal on the MRCA before elections.


Yes, topcat and you are right, the December meet is about other weapons, tanks and SAMs more anti tank etc. MRCA deal in around March


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Yes, topcat and you are right, the December meet is about other weapons, tanks and SAMs more anti tank etc. MRCA deal in around March


How is weather like in Dhaka? Looks like lot SAMs are coming from December 2010. So far Pechora, Buk, LY-80 Procured. What else left... ohh MBDA CAMM-ER, Aster and Lockheed THAAD. Maybe KSAM too. 
Blah blah blah....

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> How is weather like in Dhaka? Looks like lot SAMs are coming from December 2010. So far Pechora, Buk, LY-80 Procured. What else left... ohh MBDA CAMM-ER, Aster and Lockheed THAAD. Maybe KSAM too.
> Blah blah blah....


air force chief told in his speech that it has been procured and are to arrive shortly along with the c-130s
worry about your country/ whatever that is... asswipe immigrant

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> air force chief told in his speech that it has been procured and are to arrive shortly along with the c-130s
> worry about your country/ whatever that is... asswipe immigrant


Ahhh you don't like people telling truth. This is coming from a Methamphetamine dealer like you.
You are posting same photo from December 2010 like a group of donkey standing in front of a truck load of peking duck. Your previous air Guard chief said that Bangladesh will buy F-22 Raptor, J-20 and Su-57 that doesn't mean you will buy. That means this is juicy story hide incompetence.
Myanmar Air Force chief took photo in front of F-15 in Singapore air show but he never said Myanmar will buy F-15.
Here is the difference, you take photo of Peking duck and spread the news that Bangladesh is going to buy. Breaking news Bangladesh bought Su-35. Confirmed Bangladesh bought J-10C.
Reality is different. Reality is you're very lucky to have 1 million Muslim brothers of yours back to their home country.

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## polanski

Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz said:


> Are you retarded, do you think if you order weapons today, you will get it in a week.It takes a few years for the SAM to get build, tested, and deliver and get training on it. Listen fanboy, how about using your common sense before commenting.LOL


Woow you are working at the ship breaking yard.
It doesn't take few years to build even complex missiles Systems like PAC 3, Aster or THAAD. Did you see the order delivery track record of SAM to Arab countries by European and American suppliers. The Systems is designed, built and tested before offered to an export customer.

A mass production facility already exists before offered to export customers. American supplied THAAD to South Korea within few months of order. Russian is supplying S-400 to Turkey within 10 months.
Raytheon supplied NASAMS II to OMAN just under six months of contract signing ceremony.
You donkey is speaking out of your butt.

MOD EDIT: LANGUAGE

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

A drowning man catches at a straw...

BD folks didn't have to go this way, but they did!!!! With the assassination of _Merhum_ Zia-ur Rehman, within "two weeks" of the return of Hasina from Delhi (Indira was then PM), the sprouting Deep State/Nation got crushed too!!!! Now, BD has only corrupt-to-the-core proxies.....

Without a burgeoning Deep State, which can withstand the foreign pressure and put out the tricks out of the sleeves, forget about the proper defense capabilities.....

Sorry to say, the Burmese Deep State, although corrupt, is now miles ahead of BD in the defense planning/procurement/execution etc....

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## Nilgiri

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> A drowning man catches at a straw...
> 
> BD folks didn't have to go this way, but they did!!!! With the assassination of _Merhum_ Zia-ur Rehman, within "two weeks" of the return of Hasina from Delhi (Indira was then PM), the sprouting Deep State/Nation got crushed too!!!! Now, BD has only corrupt-to-the-core proxies.....
> 
> Without a burgeoning Deep State, which can withstand the foreign pressure and put out the tricks out of the sleeves, forget about the proper defense capabilities.....
> 
> Sorry to say, the Burmese Deep State, although corrupt, is now miles ahead of BD in the defense planning/procurement/execution etc....



I just love your posts dude haha.

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## Avicenna

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> A drowning man catches at a straw...
> 
> BD folks didn't have to go this way, but they did!!!! With the assassination of _Merhum_ Zia-ur Rehman, within "two weeks" of the return of Hasina from Delhi (Indira was then PM), the sprouting Deep State/Nation got crushed too!!!! Now, BD has only corrupt-to-the-core proxies.....
> 
> Without a burgeoning Deep State, which can withstand the foreign pressure and put out the tricks out of the sleeves, forget about the proper defense capabilities.....
> 
> Sorry to say, the Burmese Deep State, although corrupt, is now miles ahead of BD in the defense planning/procurement/execution etc....



Give it a rest pal.


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## ghost250

polanski said:


> I am minding my business as we donate and feed Rohingya terrorists not you. Corruption and incompetence are two correct words for your country. I am here to educate you how defense procurement works if there is no corruption. Who told to you open cement factory without buying arms. You diverted funds.
> Myanmar's military leaders also steal money but they put national Security First then stealing money second. You steal money first then think about national Security.
> This is Pakistani Defense Forum. Who do you think you are to tell me piss off! Go back to your dumbest forum where you buy fighter jet every week.


yeah,who the hell is he to tell u to piss of...only ur monkey masters can tell u that..now go and suck ur tiny masters dick,asshole..

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> yeah,who the hell is he to tell u to piss of...only ur monkey masters can tell u that..now go and suck ur tiny masters dick,asshole..


Here you again. Slumdog millionaire makes an entry. How do you know that my master has a tiny dick? Do you suck it regularly? 
Buy a book called military for dummies and read it. Once you read it then pass on the book to the chief of Bangladesh air Guard.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Ahhh you don't like people telling truth. This is coming from a Methamphetamine dealer like you.
> You are posting same photo from December 2010 like a group of donkey standing in front of a truck load of peking duck. Your previous air Guard chief said that Bangladesh will buy F-22 Raptor, J-20 and Su-57 that doesn't mean you will buy. That means this is juicy story hide incompetence.
> Myanmar Air Force chief took photo in front of F-15 in Singapore air show but he never said Myanmar will buy F-15.
> Here is the difference, you take photo of Peking duck and spread the news that Bangladesh is going to buy. Breaking news Bangladesh bought Su-35. Confirmed Bangladesh bought J-10C.
> Reality is different. Reality is you're very lucky to have 1 million Muslim brothers of yours back to their home country.


stop spewing bullshit, No one in BAF ever claimed that we're getting f-22, j-20 or su-57
speaking of incompetence, you tooth would break trying to pronounce methamphetamine you *** wipe.
bangladeshi pilots never took photos along su-57 or f22 or j-20 so idk where you're getting this from.
and your previous attempts at defaming BAF was exposed by everyone here, if you have some shame. you would stop showing up here.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> stop spewing bullshit, No one in BAF ever claimed that we're getting f-22, j-20 or su-57
> speaking of incompetence, you tooth would break trying to pronounce methamphetamine you *** wipe.
> bangladeshi pilots never took photos along su-57 or f22 or j-20 so idk where you're getting this from.
> and your previous attempts at defaming BAF was exposed by everyone here, if you have some shame. you would stop showing up here.


I think you should have some shame. You shamelessly claim that you will sign military deal on Christmas break. Stop spreading false and misleading information here. You are exposed by your vulnerabilities and incompetence.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> I think you should have some shame. You shamelessly claim that you will sign military deal on Christmas break. Stop spreading false and misleading information here. You are exposed by your vulnerabilities and incompetence.


a defence meet is planned to take place in december, i didn't say it was a military deal. you're numbing out the word incompetence by using it too often. cut your crap and wank to some internet **** jobless crook

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> a defence meet is planned to take place in december, i didn't say it was a military deal. you're numbing out the word incompetence by using it too often. cut your crap and wank to some internet **** jobless crook


Who do you negotiate when nobody at work. You are really numb to the word incompetent. It doesn't bother you at all. So what do you do to pay your bills, steal money from defence budget!

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## TopCat

Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz said:


> Are you retarded, do you think if you order weapons today, you will get it in a week.It takes a few years for the SAM to get build, tested, and deliver and get training on it. Listen fanboy, how about using your common sense before commenting.LOL


Nobody ordered any fighter jets yet.
YOu need to order first and then wait. 
He was right...

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## polanski

Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz said:


> OHH, So you are funding terroism , well that not suprising as your are a dumb american. Go Feed and shelter your homeless people in america, nobody is asking for your so call *help*. I like how you think the burmese will win as they have a better air force, being a military fanboy and knowing about weapons is different from being an actual officer that plans for war. Now **** off, american pig.


LANGUAGE


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## Destranator

Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz said:


> OHH, So you are funding terroism , well that not suprising as your are a dumb american. Go Feed and shelter your homeless people in america, nobody is asking for your so call *help*. I like how you think the burmese will win as they have a better air force, being a military fanboy and knowing about weapons is different from being an actual officer that plans for war. Now **** off, american pig.



This is Raihan Al Beruni (look him up) pretending to be American.
He's got pyschological issues.
Don't take his bait and attack the US.

He is the Bangladeshi counterpart of @Hakikat ve Hikmet who pretends to be Turkish.

@Mage @Atlas

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## Arsalan

Guys,, cool it down a bit!!

No need to attack each other or get personal. This is a debate and discussion forum, lets just do that. 

*DO NOT INSULT FELLOW MEMBERS*

Thank you.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Who do you negotiate when nobody at work. You are really numb to the word incompetent. It doesn't bother you at all. So what do you do to pay your bills, steal money from defence budget!


and this jackass says i'm the one smoking yaba


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## Species

Al-Ansar said:


> This is Raihan Al Beruni (look him up) pretending to be American.
> He's got pyschological issues.
> Don't take his bait and attack the US.
> 
> He is the Bangladeshi counterpart of @Hakikat ve Hikmet who pretends to be Turkish.
> 
> @Mage @Atlas



He's not Raihan Al Beruni. 

Take a look at his obsession. His repetitive posts, posting the same links repetitively , attempts to derail the thread and talking about 'corruption' and 'incompetence'..

Sounds familiar?


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## Destranator

Species said:


> He's not Raihan Al Beruni.
> 
> Take a look at his obsession. His repetitive posts, posting the same links repetitively , attempts to derail the thread and talking about 'corruption' and 'incompetence'..
> 
> Sounds familiar?


For starters, look at the patterns of grammatical errors @araberuni7 and @polanski make.

Read the posts in the below pages which detail why he is in fact Beruni.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-338

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-339

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-360

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## Species

Al-Ansar said:


> For starters, look at the patterns of grammatical errors @araberuni7 and @polanski make.
> 
> Read the posts in the below pages which detail why he is in fact Beruni.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-338
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-339
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-360



Lol no, he's not Beruni. Raihan Al Beruni is a western lobbyist and this polanski guy suggests Myanmar to buy A300 MLRS to destroy Chittagong port. 

Heck, he has been even glorifying Myanmar's Jf-17 to provoke Bangladeshis.

Raihan Al Beruni is against BAF's policies and the activities of BDmilitary forum, not against Bangladeshis in general. This polanski guy calls Rohingyas 'terrorists' and claims Muslims can never win a war.

What he's basically doing, taking leafs from the wordpress articles written by Al Beruni and provoke Bangladeshis here to derail this sticky thread.

Anyway, lets not give that low-life troll any more attention.

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## polanski

Species said:


> Lol no, he's not Beruni. Raihan Al Beruni is a western lobbyist and this polanski guy suggests Myanmar to buy A300 MLRS to destroy Chittagong port.
> 
> Heck, he has been even glorifying Myanmar's Jf-17 to provoke Bangladeshis.
> 
> Raihan Al Beruni is against BAF's policies and the activities of BDmilitary forum, not against Bangladeshis in general. This polanski guy calls Rohingyas 'terrorists' and claims Muslims can never win a war.
> 
> What he's basically doing, taking leafs from the wordpress articles written by Al Beruni and provoke Bangladeshis here to derail this sticky thread.
> 
> Anyway, lets not give that low-life troll any more attention.


Great who is trolling now? So you are trolling each other and blaming on me. Bring productive discussions people will contribute regardless of nationality. You bring trash here so people troll. You will sign a MRCA deal on Christmas day. Good on you.

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## Michael Corleone

Species said:


> He's not Raihan Al Beruni.
> 
> Take a look at his obsession. His repetitive posts, posting the same links repetitively , attempts to derail the thread and talking about 'corruption' and 'incompetence'..
> 
> Sounds familiar?


i guess i know whom you're talking about. and i have been having the ame suspicion

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## The Ronin

In 1977, US didn't approve Italy's request to sell F-104S Starfighter and Fiat G.91Y aircraft to Bangladesh. 

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/...oJBaqnGsIb2MNYJhx2w-ksoBEs1rN37OSPXIhH0PQ_gRE

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## Nike

The Ronin said:


> In 1977, US didn't approve Italy's request to sell F-104S Starfighter and Fiat G.91Y aircraft to Bangladesh.
> 
> https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/...oJBaqnGsIb2MNYJhx2w-ksoBEs1rN37OSPXIhH0PQ_gRE



At that times better to stick with Mig21 and the likes. Those Fiat is already an old design by late seventy standard.

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## Species

Marine Rouge said:


> At that times better to stick with Mig21 and the likes. Those Fiat is already an old design by late seventy standard.



Mig 21s were already grounded as Russia declined to provide spare parts after Sheikh Mujib's assassination in 1975.

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## Nilgiri

Marine Rouge said:


> At that times better to stick with Mig21 and the likes. Those Fiat is already an old design by late seventy standard.



G91 original I would agree. G91Y would have been fine acquisition for BD at the time for its purposes....would have served at least 20 years or more in BAF....and BD may have made some good connections with EU tech chain...Italians have good aviation pedigree.

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## Allah Akbar

polanski said:


> I think you should have some shame. You shamelessly claim that you will sign military deal on Christmas break. Stop spreading false and misleading information here. You are exposed by your vulnerabilities and incompetence.


It is a military forum and behave .stay on topic .Bangladesh buy mrca or not is none of your headache

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## polanski

yajuj majuj said:


> It is a military forum and behave .stay on topic .Bangladesh buy mrca or not is none of your headache


True. Its not my headache at all but bring constructive conversation not trash from Facebook and fabricated story.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> True. Its not my headache at all but bring constructive conversation not trash from Facebook and fabricated story.


Your “constructive conversations” are laced with malice

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Your “constructive conversations” are laced with malice


I used to like Beruni's articles about BAF but he lost me with his malocious posts using this fake falseflagging account.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> I used to like Beruni's articles about BAF but he lost me with his malocious posts using this fake falseflagging account.


this isn''t beruni for sure, this isn't american either



Species said:


> Mig 21s were already grounded as Russia declined to provide spare parts after Sheikh Mujib's assassination in 1975.


for a short time, they were back in operation and finally retired in 89/90
from what i count with our mig 29 fleet... there had been years when they were grounded... based on your flight hours.
one conclusion that can be drawn from this is that from back when BNP govt. grounded them in order to sell them.
air force officers refused and placed them in storage... many officers were dishonorably discharged but that god the AF held on strong with patience.... they were flying again from 2004/2005

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## Michael Corleone

Okay so 8 mi35 attack helicopter has been approved

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Okay so 8 mi35 attack helicopter has been approved



*Bangladesh looks west for attack helicopters*
4th December 2018 - 07:11 GMT | by Neelam Mathews in Delhi

Bangladesh has approved the purchase of eight Western attack helicopters for the first time, these to be used by the air force to support the army. Consequently, an RfP will be issued by January 2019.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/bangladesh-looks-west-attack-helicopters/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-looks-west-for-attack-helicopters.590032/#post-10993675

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> *Bangladesh looks west for attack helicopters*
> 4th December 2018 - 07:11 GMT | by Neelam Mathews in Delhi
> 
> Bangladesh has approved the purchase of eight Western attack helicopters for the first time, these to be used by the air force to support the army. Consequently, an RfP will be issued by January 2019.
> 
> https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/bangladesh-looks-west-attack-helicopters/
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-looks-west-for-attack-helicopters.590032/#post-10993675


Eight more to be bought in 2020

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Wait, Mi-35? Why is everyone bringing Russian helicopter here? Do you have access to this article? Did your admin say that?


Don't hold your breath. Another Bdmilitary special. @TopCat


----------



## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Wait, Mi-35? Why is everyone bringing Russian helicopter here? Do you have access to this article? Did your admin say that?


the plan was to get either mi35 or t-129 but with the engine sourcing issue they went ahead with that.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Don't hold your breath. Another Bdmilitary special. @TopCat


more like the other sources are talking about it.


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Except BD Military, DTB and DefRes? Is BD military also talking about Mi-35 in this particular article? Will U.S sanctions effect these purchase?


See bd military is instead saying that these are not priority purchase, mi171 is needed in quantity and there’s more chance that the contract will go to Leonardo since they’re also establishing MRO plant, bd military is with more wildcats and 129 in mind... while yesterday’s source was from I think India!? And then spread on by DTB and DefRes

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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> one conclusion that can be drawn from this is that from back when BNP govt. grounded them in order to sell them


They were grounded because they were expensive to maintain. Around 10-15 million per year for the fleet(compared to the unit cost of 15 milllion). They were simply too expensive to maintain, that's Why BNP wanted to sell them off altogether.


----------



## Nilgiri

Tanveer666 said:


> They were grounded because they were expensive to maintain. Around 10-15 million per year for the fleet(compared to the unit coat of 15 milllion). They were simply too expensive to maintain, that's Why BNP wanted to sell them off altogether.



Did that costing change somehow when they were reintroduced into service?


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## Tanveer666

Nilgiri said:


> Did that costing change somehow when they were reintroduced into service?


I don't think so, then again im not so knowledgeable about the matter. In the early 2000's we were poor, and thats when i heard about the rumors of only 2-3 of our migs were operational.

But bd was much stronger economically by the late 2000's, so i guess we could afford to maintain them by then.
And I know for a fact that the migs were not grounded from 2008 and onwards. ( I recall seeing them in the skies every now and then from around 2008-9)

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## UKBengali

Tanveer666 said:


> I don't think so, then again im not so knowledgeable about the matter. In the early 2000's we were poor, and thats when i heard about the rumors of only 2-3 of our migs were operational.
> 
> But bd was much stronger economically by the late 2000's, so i guess we could afford to maintain them by then.
> And I know for a fact that the migs were not grounded from 2008 and onwards. ( I recall seeing them in the skies every now and then from around 2008-9)



Lol.
BD was not so poor it could not maintain 8 Mig-29 fighters.
BNP had a vendetta against AL and the BAF and that is why they wanted to sell the Mig-29s.

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## Tanveer666

UKBengali said:


> Lol.
> BD was not so poor it could not maintain 8 Mig-29 fighters.
> BNP had a vendetta against AL and the BAF and that is why they wanted to sell the Mig-29s.


We kinda were, at least if you consider our foreign reserves at that time.

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## polanski

@Tanveer666 

Can someone answer a truthfully? Assuming, your numbers i.e. dollar figures are correct. If Bangladeshi cannot effort $15m maintenance costs then how could they acquire future fighter jets. Fighter Jets are expensive to maintain regardless of east and west west fighter jets. 

$3.45B puts you at the same club as Malaysia, Myanmar, Vietnam and Philippines. Mind you Philippines drains money on couter terrorism and controlling dugs and mafias. 

Did $3.45B make any impact on moral of Bangladesh military as whole considering Bangladesh don't fight terrorism like Indonesia or Philippines?


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## Destranator

Nilgiri said:


> Did that costing change somehow when they were reintroduced into service?



Costs were not the issue. Khaleda is an incompetent, butthurt politician who would rather take the country backwards than allow BAL take any credit.

She expressed intent to "sell off" the Fulcrums citing costs but failed to deliver on that front too despite them being much sought after fighters back then.

Any twin-engine fighter costs money.

They also decommissioned our only missile frigate at the time for the same reason.

BNP's whole schtick under Khaleda's "leadership (lol) " was to fear monger about India but do nothing productive once elected.

BAL are butthurt champions too but they are also do-ers. They get things done, good or bad, unlike BNP.

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## Destranator

polanski said:


> @Tanveer666
> 
> Can someone answer a truthfully? Assuming, your numbers i.e. dollar figures are correct. If Bangladeshi cannot effort $15m maintenance costs then how could they acquire future fighter jets. Fighter Jets are expensive to maintain regardless of east and west west fighter jets.
> 
> $3.45B puts you at the same club as Malaysia, Myanmar, Vietnam and Philippines. Mind you Philippines drains money on couter terrorism and controlling dugs and mafias.
> 
> Did $3.45B make any impact on moral of Bangladesh military as whole considering Bangladesh don't fight terrorism like Indonesia or Philippines?


Beruni, you really need to work on your comprehension skills. No one is claiming that we cannot afford $15 mn maintenance *at present*.

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## Tanveer666

polanski said:


> @Tanveer666
> 
> Can someone answer a truthfully? Assuming, your numbers i.e. dollar figures are correct. If Bangladeshi cannot effort $15m maintenance costs then how could they acquire future fighter jets. Fighter Jets are expensive to maintain regardless of east and west west fighter jets.
> 
> $3.45B puts you at the same club as Malaysia, Myanmar, Vietnam and Philippines. Mind you Philippines drains money on couter terrorism and controlling dugs and mafias.
> 
> Did $3.45B make any impact on moral of Bangladesh military as whole considering Bangladesh don't fight terrorism like Indonesia or Philippines?




This whole ordeal happened almost 15 years ago, our gdp at the time was 1/5of our current gdp, and foreign reserves 1/10th of current. Now, could it be that we could afford to maintain them but our erstwhile gov. chose to neglect them? Sure. But again that was 15 years ago.

But,No one is saying that we cannot afford them right now.

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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> They were grounded because they were expensive to maintain. Around 10-15 million per year for the fleet(compared to the unit cost of 15 milllion). They were simply too expensive to maintain, that's Why BNP wanted to sell them off altogether.


and for what? ofc only to fill their wallets... i don;t see anything significant happening in BNP era except people getting killed left and right

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## monitor

https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadman_samee/26773628487




BAF MIG-29UB

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## muhammadali233

monitor said:


> https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadman_samee/26773628487
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAF MIG-29UB


a beautiful relic.


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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> and for what? ofc only to fill their wallets... i don;t see anything significant happening in BNP era except people getting killed left and right


True...true...


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## Homo Sapiens

How much truth in this video?


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## Michael Corleone

Homo Sapiens said:


> How much truth in this video?


why don't you take this with a grain of salt and compare this with future procurements instead


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## Species

Michael Corleone said:


> why don't you take this with a grain of salt and compare this with future procurements instead



How they (both BDmilitary and others) are claiming BAF is going for Su-30? If I'm not wrong, production of Su-30 in Russia will cease to exist after their delivery to Myanmar. I don't think India is licensed to export them either.


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## Michael Corleone

Species said:


> If I'm not wrong, production of Su-30 in Russia will cease to exist after their delivery to Myanmar.


the same was said before myanmar's purchase decision... also myanmar's aircrafts were mothballs from the 90s that were returned by the indian air force.
let's see what happens. i for one am not interested in any speculative debate


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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> the same was said before myanmar's purchase decision... also myanmar's aircrafts were mothballs from the 90s that were returned by the indian air force.
> let's see what happens. i for one am not interested in any speculative debate


I thought mm bought brand new su- 30

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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> I thought mm bought brand new su- 30


Myanmar bought brand new Su-30SM and it's comfirmed by Russia side. not old Su-30 being sent to Angola.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> the same was said before myanmar's purchase decision... also myanmar's aircrafts were mothballs from the 90s that were returned by the indian air force.
> let's see what happens. i for one am not interested in any speculative debate



UMAF buying "old Su-30s" is typical BS propagated by the jealous you-know-who. There is no evidence of that. Don't believe anything the master flip-flopper says without official confirmation backing it.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> UMAF buying "old Su-30s" is typical BS propagated by the jealous you-know-who. There is no evidence of that. Don't believe anything the master flip-flopper says without official confirmation backing it.


but what would you say about eight of our migs that we bailed on? those are now in MMaf isn't it?


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> but what would you say about eight of our migs that we bailed on? those are now in MMaf isn't it?



Both Bangladesh and Myanmar, among other third world countries, bought surplass Fulcrums sitting ducks since the Cold War. Myanmar did not buy "our" MiG-29s. Is this another claim of his?


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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> Myanmar bought brand new Su-30SM and it's comfirmed by Russia side. not old Su-30 being sent to Angola.


When are you getting you jf-17 delivery


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## polanski

TopCat said:


> When are you getting you jf-17 delivery


Some JF-17 already delivered. Rest will be delivered next year. Myanmar is already flying JF-17. In the year 2019, MAF will fly both Su-30SME and JF-17. MAF is also upgrading MiG locally with the help of Russian ally.

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## TopCat

polanski said:


> Some JF-17 already delivered. Rest will be delivered next year. Myanmar is already flying JF-17. In the year 2019, MAF will fly both Su-30SME and JF-17. MAF is also upgrading MiG locally with the help of Russian ally.


Any idea what holding BD airforce back? New air chief seems like a person of doers.


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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> When are you getting you jf-17 delivery


Myanmar already recieved first batch of Jf-17.

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## ghost250

TopCat said:


> Any idea what holding BD airforce back? New air chief seems like a person of doers.


vai,apni "maal" ekta purai..

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## Imran Khan

TopCat said:


> When are you getting you jf-17 delivery


thunders were flying 2 months ago in myanmar 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/china-delivers-6-jf-17-thunder-fighters-to-myanmar.582594/

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## Avicenna

The reality is MyAF is leaving BAF in the dust. There is no question about that.

The question is what will be the BAF response?


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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> The question is what will be the BAF response?



Eat more rosogolla and complain with mouthful.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BD can always compensate by hanging old BD folks, as long as there're some still alive, accusing them to be pro-Pak war criminals!!! Thus it'll be like a revenge for Jf-17s....

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## polanski

TopCat said:


> Any idea what holding BD airforce back? New air chief seems like a person of doers.


No clue bro. Ask BAF chief. You can't educate people who refuse to learn. AFAIK MAF is going to be formidable force by next decade.

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## Tanveer666

Al-Ansar said:


> Both Bangladesh and Myanmar, among other third world countries, bought surplass Fulcrums sitting ducks since the Cold War. Myanmar did not buy "our" MiG-29s. Is this another claim of his?


It is widely believed(IN bdmillitary forum/fb group) that we actually ordered 16 migs in 1999 and after receiving the first 8, the newly formed BNP gov decided not to accept the delivery of the remaining 8 migs (some claim that we even had to pay the russians demurrage for not honoring the original agreement of 16 migs ). And these 8 migs were later sold to MM.
Edit: regarding the 'demurrage' BAF supposedly paid to the russains, the fella i was chatting with claimed thay we apparently paid the russians full price of the 8 migs. Im not aure how probable this 'situation' would be, (paying the price of 8 migs but not receiving them) 



TopCat said:


> Any idea what holding BD airforce back? New air chief seems like a person of doers.


Thats what they said about the old chief

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## Nilgiri

Tanveer666 said:


> Thats what they said about the old chief











Tanveer666 said:


> Im not aure how probable this 'situation' would be, (paying the price of 8 migs but not receiving them)



Generally will be held in the escrow account assigned to the deal....and BD can simply recover it there.

Or conversely (if already withdrawn by Russia), Russia would have forwarded it in some other way (say taken off from payment for other future deals).

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## polanski

On 23 November 2018, Bangladesh Air Guard crashed one more aircraft. This is common trend. You will see that they will blame aircraft, weather and maintenance. They will never acknowledge that poorly trained pilots who barely has few hours on actually aircraft they are supposed to fly.
Plus Bangladeshi pilots do not spend time on simulators. All modern air force pilots spend hundreds of hours on simulators if not thousands hours to practice before doing the real thing.
Add to that Russian and Chinese products are low quality and poor supply of spares and poorly maintained at their home country. Forget about the conditions at export countries.
Egyptian manage to crash brand new MiG-29M2. Again quality over quantity was choosen by Egyptian.
Think a reverse engineered bad aircraft turned into a nightmare for China AKA J-15 AKA Su-33. Chinese should have thought why Russia abandon the Su-33 before reverse engineering Su-33. J-15 crashed randomly.
Russia has limited budget and millions of projects then quality and innovation will suffer. That's what happened with Russian. So far they cancelled Su-57, T-15, Radar project, Aircraft Carrier project, Frigate project, Amphibious Assault Ship, and Submarine projects.
Nuclear missiles and ballistic missiles project chewing most of the money plus the tension with NATO, Ukraine and Georgia. Putin didn't realize that maintaining Crimea is feeding unemployed millions. Russia pays for even fresh water for Crimea.

An export customer suffers for spare, training, support and maintenance. Many examples are Su-30MKM, MiG-29K. Myanmar and India exercise sovereign rights to buy from any vendors and countries. Bangladesh is an exception. Bangladesh stick to Russia, India and China. In return Russia and China screw Bangladesh. This is the reality.

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## Destranator

Tanveer666 said:


> It is widely believed(IN bdmillitary forum/fb group) that we actually ordered 16 migs in 1999 and after receiving the first 8, the newly formed BNP gov decided not to accept the delivery of the remaining 8 migs (some claim that we even had to pay the russians demurrage for not honoring the original agreement of 16 migs ). *And these 8 migs were later sold to MM.*
> Edit: regarding the 'demurrage' BAF supposedly paid to the russains, the fella i was chatting with claimed thay we apparently paid the russians full price of the 8 migs. Im not aure how probable this 'situation' would be, (paying the price of 8 migs but not receiving them)



The above is quite possibly true except for the bold part.

The Russians had a good number of Fulcrums in storage so it is not necessary that they supplied those exact same undelivered units to MM. 
Ashiq as usual might have made that bit up to berate MM and minimise the reality of UMAF operating a four times as large a fleet of Fulcrum conpared to BAF.

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## Tanveer666

Al-Ansar said:


> The above is quite possibly true except for the bold part.
> 
> The Russians had a good number of Fulcrums in storage so it is not necessary that they supplied those exact same undelivered units to MM.
> Ashiq as usual might have made that bit up to berate MM and minimise the reality of UMAF operating a four times as large a fleet of Fulcrum conpared to BAF.


So we really "donated" $100m to russia? Kinda shocking isn't it. If it really happened under BNP's watch would BAL use it a rallying point against BNP?



polanski said:


> On 23 November 2018, Bangladesh Air Guard crashed one more aircraft. This is common trend. You will see that they will blame aircraft, weather and maintenance. They will never acknowledge that poorly trained pilots who barely has few hours on actually aircraft they are supposed to fly.
> Plus Bangladeshi pilots do not spend time on simulators. All modern air force pilots spend hundreds of hours on simulators if not thousands hours to practice before doing the real thing.
> Add to that Russian and Chinese products are low quality and poor supply of spares and poorly maintained at their home country. Forget about the conditions at export countries.
> Egyptian manage to crash brand new MiG-29M2. Again quality over quantity was choosen by Egyptian.
> Think a reverse engineered bad aircraft turned into a nightmare for China AKA J-15 AKA Su-33. Chinese should have thought why Russia abandon the Su-33 before reverse engineering Su-33. J-15 crashed randomly.
> Russia has limited budget and millions of projects then quality and innovation will suffer. That's what happened with Russian. So far they cancelled Su-57, T-15, Radar project, Aircraft Carrier project, Frigate project, Amphibious Assault Ship, and Submarine projects.
> Nuclear missiles and ballistic missiles project chewing most of the money plus the tension with NATO, Ukraine and Georgia. Putin didn't realize that maintaining Crimea is feeding unemployed millions. Russia pays for even fresh water for Crimea.
> 
> An export customer suffers for spare, training, support and maintenance. Many examples are Su-30MKM, MiG-29K. Myanmar and India exercise sovereign rights to buy from any vendors and countries. Bangladesh is an exception. Bangladesh stick to Russia, India and China. In return Russia and China screw Bangladesh. This is the reality.


 Hi al beruni bhai.

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## Nilgiri

Tanveer666 said:


> So we really "donated" $100m to russia? Kinda shocking isn't it. If it really happened under BNP's watch would BAL use it a rallying point against BNP?



There is plenty of ways to recover the money if something didnt get delivered as stipulated. The financing mechanism always involves escrow....and besides BD does lot of longer term deals with Russia that it can just transfer any existing over-balance to use in those.

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## Tanveer666

Nilgiri said:


> There is plenty of ways to recover the money if something didnt get delivered as stipulated. The financing mechanism always involves escrow....and besides BD does lot of longer term deals with Russia that it can just transfer any existing over-balance to use in those.


Valid point

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## polanski

Tanveer666 said:


> So we really "donated" $100m to russia? Kinda shocking isn't it. If it really happened under BNP's watch would BAL use it a rallying point against BNP?
> 
> 
> Hi al beruni bhai.


Can you write in English? What's that mean?


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## tarpitz

TopCat said:


> When are you getting you jf-17 delivery


Today.
First batch of JF 17 commissioned on today.

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## tarpitz

tarpitz said:


> Today.
> First batch of JF 17 commissioned on today.
> View attachment 526630
> View attachment 526631

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## TopCat

tarpitz said:


> View attachment 527144


Looks good and new... congrats.

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## ghost250

with ukrenian/russian assistance overhauled mi-17/171sh in MRO plant ...

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## polanski

One of Bangladeshi said that it takes 4/5 years to deliver fighter jets as it is designed, built and tested once someone place an order. 

I couldn't find a thumbs down button here!


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## ghost250

polanski said:


> One of Bangladeshi said that it takes 4/5 years to deliver fighter jets as it is designed, built and tested once someone place an order.
> 
> I couldn't find a thumbs down button here!


https://thediplomat.com/2014/06/burma-to-purchase-chinese-pakistani-jf-17-fighter-jets/

http://www.mizzima.com/news-domestic/myanmar-air-force-induct-jf-17-fighters-end-2017

..so,it took almost 4 years ..whats the big fuss here,bokachu???

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## TopCat

polanski said:


> One of Bangladeshi said that it takes 4/5 years to deliver fighter jets as it is designed, built and tested once someone place an order.
> 
> I couldn't find a thumbs down button here!


He probably meant.. what is called intend to purchase and discussed in forum than actually placing the order. After placing the order it should not take more than a year to start getting the delivery

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> https://thediplomat.com/2014/06/burma-to-purchase-chinese-pakistani-jf-17-fighter-jets/
> 
> http://www.mizzima.com/news-domestic/myanmar-air-force-induct-jf-17-fighters-end-2017
> 
> ..so,it took almost 4 years ..whats the big fuss here,bokachu???


Ahhhhhh what happened to your classified fighter jet program you wrote at the diplomat. Are you buying F-22 Raptor so it's classified? Why do you care about India, China and Russia? Isn't Bangladesh a sovereign nation or satellite state of India?
Every human has fear, that's what make us human but every human try to overcome the fear and challenges. Looks like Bangladesh has given up on everything because they fear what India would do if Bangladeshi buy fighter jet.
Truth is Bangladeshi pilots no longer fly night mission after Yak and K-8 incidents. Recent accident was at day time and the future accident will be at day times. MAF knows you're vulnerable so they started night mission. Truth is you don't have infrastructure, training facilities, communication facilities to train any pilots. You don't have pilots so you don't buy fighter jets. So you can't tell that in public so it's classified.

Don't bring pathetic story (confirmed and breaking news or fake news) for public to troll you.
BTW I am really enjoying the game where Bangladesh is always behind the game and caught by surprise.

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## Avicenna

tarpitz said:


> View attachment 527144



Don't worry guys there is an order for 8 FTC-2000 and options for 4 to counter these!

BAF will not let you down!

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## ghost250

polanski said:


> Ahhhhhh what happened to your classified fighter jet program you wrote at the diplomat. Are you buying F-22 Raptor so it's classified? Why do you care about India, China and Russia? Isn't Bangladesh a sovereign nation or satellite state of India?
> Every human has fear, that's what make us human but every human try to overcome the fear and challenges. Looks like Bangladesh has given up on everything because they fear what India would do if Bangladeshi buy fighter jet.
> Truth is Bangladeshi pilots no longer fly night mission after Yak and K-8 incidents. Recent accident was at day time and the future accident will be at day times. MAF knows you're vulnerable so they started night mission. Truth is you don't have infrastructure, training facilities, communication facilities to train any pilots. You don't have pilots so you don't buy fighter jets. So you can't tell that in public so it's classified.
> 
> Don't bring pathetic story (confirmed and breaking news or fake news) for public to troll you.
> BTW I am really enjoying the game where Bangladesh is always behind the game and caught by surprise.


yes,yes..we dont "have infrastructure, training facilities, communication facilities to train any pilots"....yes,yes,we got it.....is that gonna let u sleep at night peacefully??...nd what??"Bangladeshi pilots no longer fly night mission after Yak and K-8 incidents"??!!.....from where did u get this info??from ur rear end just like "we have no long range AAM or towed gun" u claimed before??...

https://www.mmtimes.com/news/two-f-7-fighter-jets-crash-magwe-killing-pilots-young-girl.html

nd dont worry about our fighter porecurement pgrm..it will see daylight in due time...now go write a webpress article about baf...or how to destroy ctg port .......personally,i feel bad for u now....

@The Ronin

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> yes,yes..we dont "have infrastructure, training facilities, communication facilities to train any pilots"....yes,yes,we got it.....is that gonna let u sleep at night peacefully??...nd what??"Bangladeshi pilots no longer fly night mission after Yak and K-8 incidents"??!!.....from where did u get this info??from ur rear end just like "we have no long range AAM or towed gun" u claimed before??...
> 
> https://www.mmtimes.com/news/two-f-7-fighter-jets-crash-magwe-killing-pilots-young-girl.html
> 
> nd dont worry about our fighter porecurement pgrm..it will see daylight in due time...now go write a webpress article about baf...or how to destroy ctg port .......personally,i feel bad for u now....
> 
> @The Ronin


Can you complete a sentence in English? I personally do not feel bad about Bangladesh. On the contrary, I am happy to see India + Myanmar and Myanmar + Pakistan (your Muslim brother) progresses toward a better military alliance. @Nilgiri @Aung Zaya

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## ghost250

polanski said:


> Can you complete a sentence in English? I personally do not feel bad about Bangladesh. On the contrary, I am happy to see India + Myanmar and Myanmar + Pakistan (your Muslim brother) progresses toward a better military alliance. @Nilgiri @Aung Zaya


military alliance??!!l yes,we r afraid..
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/23819#.XBiRItszYdX

plz tell ur master india to give burma more of these old obsolete jets and sensors...


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## Michael Corleone

Bangladesh air guard get their pilot wings playing video games. Didn’t y’all know?

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> military alliance??!!l yes,we r afraid..
> http://www.defenseworld.net/news/23819#.XBiRItszYdX
> 
> plz tell ur master india to give burma more of these old obsolete jets and sensors...


Thanks for proving my point. Did you read the article before posting it. The article says that Pakistan is supplying JF-17 to Myanmar Air Force.

If you don't know yet then just for you, India is supplying sonar, countermeasures, decoy and radar to Myanmar Navy. 

BTW Modi is the big brother of the current government of Bangladesh. So Modi is your master.

As far as India concerned, India is our valued customer and currently placed $10B various order to American companies. @Nilgiri @Aung Zaya @tarpitz

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## ghost250

polanski said:


> Thanks for proving my point. Did you read the article before posting it. The article says that Pakistan is supplying JF-17 to Myanmar Air Force.
> 
> If you don't know yet then just for you, India is supplying sonar, countermeasures, decoy and radar to Myanmar Navy.
> 
> BTW Modi is the big brother of the current government of Bangladesh. So Modi is your master.
> 
> As far as India concerned, India is our valued customer and currently placed $10B various order to American companies. @Nilgiri @Aung Zaya @tarpitz


..tell them to supply burma as much as junks they have..we r happy for it.......calling for help from ur masters again??


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## Bilal9

Guys let's not bring in discussion about or comparing other air forces, let the discussion limited only to BAF topics please. Troll posts will be reported.

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## ghost250

locally upgraded Bell with flir..




MRO plant for missiles..








credit-BDMIL

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## ghost250

@Imran Khan

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## Imran Khan

nice to see still we have relations with BAF[/USER][/QUOTE]


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## Destranator

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 527401
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan



PAF bile güvenli uçacak!!!!
Even PAF will fly safe!!!!

@Hakikat ve Hikmet

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## Homo Sapiens

Avicenna said:


> Don't worry guys there is an order for 8 FTC-2000 and options for 4 to counter these!
> 
> BAF will not let you down!


Our defence procurement is not myanmar specific. We have no arms race with them. And we do not buy weapon at tit-for-tat basis on what myanmar brings. Out of 10 division Bangladesh army, only 1 located closer to myanmar border. Our defence planner think about protecting our entire border. So our procurement will not resemble with those of myanmar either on variety, quantity or timing of procurement.

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## Aung Zaya

polanski said:


> If you don't know yet then just for you, India is supplying sonar, countermeasures, decoy and radar to Myanmar Navy.


Coastal radar system , and some undisclosed things.

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## Species

Aung Zaya said:


> Coastal radar system , and some undisclosed things.



Any Kamanev centrifuge?


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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> Coastal radar system , and some undisclosed things.


Free?


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## Michael Corleone

BlueBot said:


> I come here once in 15-20 days maybe, and barely post.
> 
> On topic, yes, Bangal cuisine is actually better, they are more foodies too. Same also applies to sweet dishes (pithe puli). Though I will have a biased opinion on this matter for obvious reasons.


must have missed the convo above but compared to what ?


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## polanski

TopCat said:


> Free?


It's not free but cost effective. 

The most important of all, MA, MAF and MN are trained by India, Pakistan, Israel, USA and Australia. This year MAF crashed 1 aircraft and Bangladesh crashed numerous aircrafts both rotary craft and fixed wing aircraft. Training is helping Myanmar military a lot. Myanmar is well trained, well-equipped military and battle hardened. 
Bangladesh is dreaming that one day Saudi will pay them bag full of cash then they will start training again.



Homo Sapiens said:


> Our defence procurement is not myanmar specific. We have no arms race with them. And we do not buy weapon at tit-for-tat basis on what myanmar brings. Out of 10 division Bangladesh army, only 1 located closer to myanmar border. Our defence planner think about protecting our entire border. So our procurement will not resemble with those of myanmar either on variety, quantity or timing of procurement.


Because you can't compete and already accepted defeat even after $3.45 billion budget.

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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> Because you can't compete and already accepted defeat even after $3.45 billion budget.




How did you figure this out?

BA, BN and BAF are all equipped with modern SAMs.

PS - Heard about the 6 Modern frigates that will be constructed in BD up to 2030, that will have both AESA MFR and dozens of VLS for SAMs?


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## Avicenna

Homo Sapiens said:


> Our defence procurement is not myanmar specific. We have no arms race with them. And we do not buy weapon at tit-for-tat basis on what myanmar brings. Out of 10 division Bangladesh army, only 1 located closer to myanmar border. Our defence planner think about protecting our entire border. So our procurement will not resemble with those of myanmar either on variety, quantity or timing of procurement.



LOL I was being flippant and sarcastic.

Also, its a problem that Bangladesh doesn't see a tit for tat situation with Myanmar.

Surely Bangladesh isnt titting and tatting with India.

Keep buying K-8s then......and good luck with the aerobatics team.

Perhaps the BAF's most important next procurement is some shame.

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## polanski

UKBengali said:


> How did you figure this out?
> 
> BA, BN and BAF are all equipped with modern SAMs.
> 
> PS - Heard about the 6 Modern frigates that will be constructed in BD up to 2030, that will have both AESA MFR and dozens of VLS for SAMs?


Bangladesh only has few HQ-7 junk with high CEP and low hit ratio. You think Myanmar will seat down until 2030. MAF will probably buy HQ-9 or even European SAM by 2030. It may happen sooner than any regional military by the pace of their progress.

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## Homo Sapiens

Avicenna said:


> LOL I was being flippant and sarcastic.
> 
> Also, its a problem that Bangladesh doesn't see a tit for tat situation with Myanmar.
> 
> Surely Bangladesh isnt titting and tatting with India.
> 
> Keep buying K-8s then......and good luck with the aerobatics team.
> 
> Perhaps the BAF's most important next procurement is some shame.





polanski said:


> Because you can't compete and already accepted defeat even after $3.45 billion budget


Although myanmar is our next door neighbor, but culturally myanmar is as alien to us as Mongolia. There is no cultural contact or people to people contact with them with us. They do not have any mental space for Bangladesh, noe do we have.Fundamentally this two countries belong to two different world. Their orientation is towards east, To the countries of ASEAN and Far East. Our orientation is towards west, to the countries of South Asia and Middle East. This is true from the time immemorial. We Bangladeshi refuse to accept such a country as a rival of Bangladesh or giving day to day attention.

We do not have ant territorial problem with them. Only problem, Rohingya crisis can not be solved by military means. Because ultimately our goal is to make the Rohingya accepted and assimilated within myanmar. So nothing can be achieved by engaging hostile way with them. That's why Bangladesh is frustrating the burmese attempt to create hostility with us by their various provocation. Bangladesh will solve this crisis by engaging the international community sooner or later.

That does not mean we should ignore the military build up there or should not take note. Of course we should, but we need to rest it on our military planners. We the common people should not be too swayed away by the myanmar military build up and create an ''rival'' in popular imagination which it is not. Our defence doctrine should encompass all of our border and there myanmar should not occupy the lead concerns. Our military planners know these things very well and that's why no one can say that our military is directed towards myanmar.


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## polanski

Homo Sapiens said:


> Although myanmar is our next door neighbor, but culturally myanmar is as alien to us as Mongolia. There is no cultural contact or people to people contact with them with us. They do not have any mental space for Bangladesh, noe do we have.Fundamentally this two countries belong to two different world. Their orientation is towards east, To the countries of ASEAN and Far East. Our orientation is towards west, to the countries of South Asia and Middle East. This is true from the time immemorial. We Bangladeshi refuse to accept such a country as a rival of Bangladesh or giving day to day attention from our people.
> 
> We do not have ant territorial problem with them. Only problem, Rohingya crisis can not be solved by military means. Because ultimately our goal is to make the Rohingya accepted and assimilated within myanmar. So nothing can be achieved by engaging hostile way with them. That's why Bangladesh is frustrating the burmese attempt to create hostility with us by their various provocation. Bangladesh will solve this crisis by engaging the international community sooner or later.
> 
> That does not mean we should ignore the military build up there or should not take note. Of course we should, but we need to rest it on our military planners. We the common people should not be too swayed away by the myanmar military build up and create an ''rival'' in popular imagination which it is not. Our defence doctrine should encompass all of our border and there myanmar should not occupy the lead concerns. Our military planners know these things very well and that's why no one can say that our military is directed towards myanmar unlike some rival countries in the world.


Bangladesh does not have any military planners. PERIOD. 
Rohingya muslims will never go back to Myanmar.
US, EU, India, China and Russia don't care about Muslim Rohingya. China is spending $7B to build offshore container terminal and deep sea port near Rakhine state. China doesn't want Rohingya go back to Rakhine state. OIC doesn't care about Rohingya.
Bangladesh is alone to deal with these Muslims.
Although EU and America pays for food and shelter of these alien muslims that doesn't mean Americans and EU give a damn about them. Get your fact check before posting here.

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## Nike

polanski said:


> Bangladesh only has few HQ-7 junk with high CEP and low hit ratio. You think Myanmar will seat down until 2030. MAF will probably buy HQ-9 or even European SAM by 2030. It may happen sooner than any regional military by the pace of their progress.



Not as fast as Indonesia or Vietnam

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## Arsalan

@Nilgiri, bro,, back to air force please?
@BlueBot @polanski ??

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> even European SAM by 2030


if and a HUUUUUUUUGEGEEEE IF, european nation decides to sell anything to myanmar... burmese military is under sanctions so idk where do you think they'll get those from.... the only thing they can get is chinese or russian

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> if and a HUUUUUUUUGEGEEEE IF, european nation decides to sell anything to myanmar... burmese military is under sanctions so idk where do you think they'll get those from.... the only thing they can get is chinese or russian


Or iron dome..

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Or iron dome..


if they can afford the big bucks... who am i to judge xD
can't even take care of a million of their people and acting rich

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## Allah Akbar

Myanmar is a nation like North Korea.They will die in femine and starvation to death but they will buy arms whatever it costs.Burnese people’s mentality is same too.They are simply war mongers.If the war breaks out it will be a short war because none can effort a long war.the both country will be ruined.bd has more manpower and money.remember in war who has more manpower is the winner.example operation barbarosa.so Polanski just shut up


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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> Bangladesh only has few HQ-7 junk with high CEP and low hit ratio. You think Myanmar will seat down until 2030. MAF will probably buy HQ-9 or even European SAM by 2030. It may happen sooner than any regional military by the pace of their progress.




LOL.

BD has around a dozen batteries of FM-90C SAMs. These are some of the most sophisticated short-range SAMs in the world.

BA will have plenty of air-protection from these systems that can engage 3 targets simultaneously out to a range of 17km.

Who gives a rats if Myanmar buys long range SAMs? All that matters is that BN will build 6 modern air-defence frigates that will be able to turn Arakan into a no-fly zone for MAF.

BD has economy of nearly 300 billion US dollars growing at 8% a year and there is no way that a puny 70-80 billion US dollar economy will be able to compete over the medium to long term.

Now I suggest you get some Burnol to get over your butt-hurt at BD.


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## Nilgiri

Arsalan said:


> @Nilgiri, bro,, back to air force please?
> @BlueBot @polanski ??



Well it was nice respite while it lasted. Back to "serious BAF conversation" now...like few posts after yours (I'm trying to keep a straight face!)

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> if and a HUUUUUUUUGEGEEEE IF, european nation decides to sell anything to myanmar... burmese military is under sanctions so idk where do you think they'll get those from.... the only thing they can get is chinese or russian


Myanmar already uses European Systems. Currently Sweden and Great Britain supply arms to Myanmar. If you have money you can either launder the money or buy arms from any country. Myanmar is buying arms from all countries. Mind you USN invited MN to train with them not BN.
Off course Israel is supplying arms to Myanmar.

Back to air Guard conversations: Tell me what did you do when you saw Myanmar is hovering heli on Bangladeshi airspace.
Tell me what will you do if Myanmar violates once again? What is your response? Go to china and India? Give me example.



Allah Akbar said:


> Myanmar is a nation like North Korea.They will die in femine and starvation to death but they will buy arms whatever it costs.Burnese people’s mentality is same too.They are simply war mongers.If the war breaks out it will be a short war because none can effort a long war.the both country will be ruined.bd has more manpower and money.remember in war who has more manpower is the winner.example operation barbarosa.so Polanski just shut up


BD has more money but can't defend its land, air and sea. It watches on their national television that Myanmar is hovering helicopters and Drones over Bangladeshi airspace. Bangladesh has to watch that MN escorting Korean oil exploration ship inside Bangladeshi EEZ.
I know more french languages than you.

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## Nilgiri

polanski said:


> BD has more money but can't defend its land, air and sea.



All sides of the "argument" have to be held up! Because if you dig into it....some nasty conclusion like "BD doesn't have money" could surface as well!

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## ghost250

polanski said:


> Myanmar already uses European Systems. Currently Sweden and Great Britain supply arms to Myanmar. If you have money you can either launder the money or buy arms from any country. Myanmar is buying arms from all countries. Mind you USN invited MN to train with them not BN.
> Off course Israel is supplying arms to Myanmar.
> 
> Back to air Guard conversations: Tell me what did you do when you saw Myanmar is hovering heli on Bangladeshi airspace.
> Tell me what will you do if Myanmar violates once again? What is your response? Go to china and India? Give me example.
> 
> 
> BD has more money but can't defend its land, air and sea. It watches on their national television that Myanmar is hovering helicopters and Drones over Bangladeshi airspace. Bangladesh has to watch that MN escorting Korean oil exploration ship inside Bangladeshi EEZ.
> I know more french languages than you.



are u farting from ur mouth again??..."USN invited MN to train with them "...when and where??
"Sweden and Great Britain supply arms to Myanmar..."...r u talking about this??

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/326357/india-probing-presence-of-swedish-arms-in-myanmar

now dont post ur wordpress article as a reffernence...

yes,myanmar navy ship came inside our EEZ but when send our warships..they actually fled by hiding their tails between their legs..and one more thing,u forgot to add "fighter aircraft" in this line...."It watches on their national television that Myanmar is hovering helicopters and Drones over Bangladeshi airspace"...

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## AMG_12

UKBengali said:


> LOL.
> 
> BD has around a dozen batteries of FM-90C SAMs. These are some of the most sophisticated short-range SAMs in the world.
> 
> BA will have plenty of air-protection from these systems that can engage 3 targets simultaneously out to a range of 17km.
> 
> Who gives a rats if Myanmar buys long range SAMs? All that matters is that BN will build 6 modern air-defence frigates that will be able to turn Arakan into a no-fly zone for MAF.
> 
> BD has economy of nearly 300 billion US dollars growing at 8% a year and there is no way that a puny 70-80 billion US dollar economy will be able to compete over the medium to long term.
> 
> Now I suggest you get some Burnol to get over your butt-hurt at BD.


SHORADs like FM90 are point defense and usually provide air cover to armoured columns. Sometimes you've to be realistic in assessing weapon systems, if BD military put all its hopes in SHORADs then there's something wrong with your military planners.

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## ghost250

Game.Invade said:


> SHORADs like FM90 are point defense and usually provide air cover to armoured columns. Sometimes you've to be realistic in assessing weapon systems, if BD military put all its hopes in SHORADs then there's something wrong with your military planners.


BAF will get MRSAM in 2019....president alrdy announced that in BAF parade....nd one more thing,we r not a rag tag military nation like myanmar..we dont have a arms race with them..we have other priorities,we r fulfilling those..beside,our military modernisation started in 2010 nd only a small percentage of GDP is being used for military..so it will take time..

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## Tanveer666

shourov323 said:


> BAF will get MRSAM in 2019.


Say, didn't we put out a tender for MRSAM in early 2017 (about the same time as the mrca tender)


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## ghost250

Tanveer666 said:


> Say, didn't we put out a tender for MRSAM in early 2017 (about the same time as the mrca tender)


yes ... president and BAF chief confirmed this for numerous times..

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## AMG_12

shourov323 said:


> BAF will get MRSAM in 2019....president alrdy announced that in BAF parade....nd one more thing,we r not a rag tag military nation like myanmar..we dont have a arms race with them..we have other priorities,we r fulfilling those..beside,our military modernisation started in 2010 nd only a small percentage of GDP is being used for military..so it will take time..


We can talk about MRSAM once it's inducted. 
I didn't claim BD is a military state like Myanmar, it's some of the fanboys who overstate the capabilities of the equipment owned by your armed forces and would go to any length to defend their points. My comment was targeted at them.

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## bd_4_ever

shourov323 said:


> yes ... president and BAF chief confirmed this for numerous times..



Nice! Any idea from where we getting them?


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## ghost250

bd_4_ever said:


> Nice! Any idea from where we getting them?


BAF chief didnt mention that bro.....most probably,ly-80D will come...


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Myanmar already uses European Systems. Currently Sweden and Great Britain supply arms to Myanmar. If you have money you can either launder the money or buy arms from any country. Myanmar is buying arms from all countries. Mind you USN invited MN to train with them not BN.
> Off course Israel is supplying arms to Myanmar.
> 
> Back to air Guard conversations: Tell me what did you do when you saw Myanmar is hovering heli on Bangladeshi airspace.
> Tell me what will you do if Myanmar violates once again? What is your response? Go to china and India? Give me example.


I’m pretty sure EU countries placed a ban on weapon sales and whatever Myanmar got was from before the crisis. 
BN recently had excercise with USN and so did the AF search for pictures in previous posts

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## Destranator

polanski said:


> Myanmar already uses European Systems. Currently Sweden and Great Britain supply arms to Myanmar. If you have money you can either launder the money or buy arms from any country. Myanmar is buying arms from all countries. Mind you USN invited MN to train with them not BN.
> Off course Israel is supplying arms to Myanmar.
> 
> Back to air Guard conversations: Tell me what did you do when you saw Myanmar is hovering heli on Bangladeshi airspace.
> Tell me what will you do if Myanmar violates once again? What is your response? Go to china and India? Give me example.
> 
> 
> BD has more money but can't defend its land, air and sea. It watches on their national television that Myanmar is hovering helicopters and Drones over Bangladeshi airspace. Bangladesh has to watch that MN escorting Korean oil exploration ship inside Bangladeshi EEZ.
> I know more french languages than you.



Beruni you PoS, who do you think the USN is training with below? Have you even ever been to the US? Stick to providing IT support or repairing computers for Daffodil you false-flagging psychopath!









So much for the US cooperating with Burma:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/17/us/politics/myanmar-sanctions-rohingya.html

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## Tanveer666

Al-Ansar said:


> Stick to providing IT support or repairing computers for Daffodil you false-flagging psychopath!


Say, isn't al beruni in Australia?

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## UKBengali

Game.Invade said:


> SHORADs like FM90 are point defense and usually provide air cover to armoured columns. Sometimes you've to be realistic in assessing weapon systems, if BD military put all its hopes in SHORADs then there's something wrong with your military planners.



Dude, range of up to 17km is not point-defence.
BA will be well protected against MAF in war.


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## Destranator

Tanveer666 said:


> Say, isn't al beruni in Australia?


He is. He works in IT here and used work for Daffodil Computers in BD. 

Unlike what he claims at the bottom of his articles, he has no background in defence contracting.

He's lucky he migrated much earlier.
There is no way he would score enough in his English test if he wanted to migrate today given his writing and reading skills as evident here.


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## Buddhistforlife

polanski said:


> Bangladesh does not have any military planners. PERIOD.
> Rohingya muslims will never go back to Myanmar.
> US, EU, India, China and Russia don't care about Muslim Rohingya. China is spending $7B to build offshore container terminal and deep sea port near Rakhine state. China doesn't want Rohingya go back to Rakhine state. OIC doesn't care about Rohingya.
> Bangladesh is alone to deal with these Muslims.
> Although EU and America pays for food and shelter of these alien muslims that doesn't mean Americans and EU give a damn about them. Get your fact check before posting here.


No one cares about them anymore. The world already forgot who are the rohingyas. 

I think the rohingyas will be permanently settled in Bangladesh. Already millions of them have fled to different parts of Bangladesh so its not thay easy to relocate them even if its possible.


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## UKBengali

Buddhistforlife said:


> No one cares about them anymore. The world already forgot who are the rohingyas.
> 
> I think the rohingyas will be permanently settled in Bangladesh. Already millions of them have fled to different parts of Bangladesh so its not thay easy to relocate them even if its possible.




Dude, you thick?

There are only 1 million Rohingyas in BD and so how can millions have fled all over BD?

BD military is being prepared to finish off you savages in due time.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you thick?
> 
> There are only 1 million Rohingyas in BD and so how can millions have fled all over BD?
> 
> BD military is being prepared to finish off you savages in due time.



Please stop.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Please stop.



Do you have anything of substance to say?


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## Tanveer666

UKBengali said:


> Do you have anything of substance to say?


But the real question is... 
Do you?

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Please stop.





UKBengali said:


> Do you have anything of substance to say?





Tanveer666 said:


> But the real question is...
> Do you?



Reading on such a "battle of ideas", I feel like Dave Rubin. 

@Mage @Nilgiri @UKBengali @Avicenna @Tanveer666

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## Nilgiri

Tanveer666 said:


> But the real question is...
> Do you?



DUDE! SAVAGE!

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force personnels at Royal Air Force base.







Officials from the Bangladesh Air Force visited the An-132D plant in Ukraine.






The Bangladesh Air Force upgraded two Bell 212 already indigenously. This is what the upgrade included:

* Auto-pilot system
* Remotely controlled search light with IR beam
* Full NVG compatible cockpit
* LED lighting in cockpit
* Helmet mounted NVG
* Australian-made FLIR system
* Emergency medical service kit
* Removable tactical officer/SAR station
* New direction finding system
* New HF radio

The external modifications are marked in red squares for your reference.






Note the pylons. These Bell 212s can be armed any time with gun pods and rockets.








polanski said:


> Myanmar already uses European Systems. Currently Sweden and Great Britain supply arms to Myanmar.



So what Europeans, Swedish and British arms and systems is Myanmar getting *after the Rohingya issue and embargo?* If i remember correctly the answer @Aung Zaya gave to my questions previously in MM Defense Forum that these ATR-72 will be used as MPA and other necessary sensors will be added later. Now every MPA comes with a radar dome beneath the fuselage if i am not wrong which is missing in MN's ATR-72. Doesn't that mean you didn't get any MPA related radar and sensors because of the sanctions? Correct me if i am wrong.













polanski said:


> Mind you USN invited MN to train with them not BN.



Oh? So when did USN participated in any exercise with MN? Any link or photos?

https://navaltoday.com/2018/11/05/bangladesh-us-navy-kick-off-24th-carat-exercise/





























polanski said:


> Bangladesh has to watch that MN escorting Korean oil exploration ship inside Bangladeshi EEZ.



Yes yes we were watching.

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## AMG_12

UKBengali said:


> Dude, range of up to 17km is not point-defence.
> BA will be well protected against MAF in war.


Since you've so much faith in the system, I suggest all countries invest heavily in SHORADs instead of wasting money on expensive fighter jets or in BD case K8s and F7s.

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## UKBengali

Tanveer666 said:


> But the real question is...
> Do you?



You are pretty simple dude.


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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> If i remember correctly the answer @Aung Zaya gave to my questions previously in MM Defense Forum that these ATR-72 will be used as MPA and other necessary sensors will be added later. Now every MPA comes with a radar dome beneath the fuselage if i am not wrong which is missing in MN's ATR-72. Doesn't that mean you didn't get any MPA related radar and sensors because of the sanctions?


well. what many people misunderstood in this forum is the reason of putting embargos against Myanmar due to rakhine crisis which is not true. Arm embargo have never been lift since it was introduced since dacade ago. But when we need , we're capable of managing to get required western systems. The most obvious example is Italian naval main guns on our ships. Regarding with ATR-72 , dont be confused. I dont say we're inducting ATR-72MPA. What i said is they will be after making some deal with some nations like our ATR-42 MPA deal which already inducted around 2015 as just ATR-42 transport and then later reappeared as ATR-42 MPA in 2017.

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## UKBengali

Game.Invade said:


> Since you've so much faith in the system, I suggest all countries invest heavily in SHORADs instead of wasting money on expensive fighter jets or in BD case K8s and F7s.



Dude, your thinking is very shallow.
BAF will procure MR-SAM next year as announced by President and BAF chief.
FM-90C is enough to protect BA in the field against an adversary like MAF.
Your cognitive ability is not advanced enough to debate with me and so do not reply.


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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> In Kyan Sitta class? Didn't it come from India?


no.



The Ronin said:


> So these will be modified later through third party?


yes.

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## tarpitz

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force personnels at Royal Air Force base.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officials from the Bangladesh Air Force visited the An-132D plant in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force upgraded two Bell 212 already indigenously. This is what the upgrade included:
> 
> * Auto-pilot system
> * Remotely controlled search light with IR beam
> * Full NVG compatible cockpit
> * LED lighting in cockpit
> * Helmet mounted NVG
> * Australian-made FLIR system
> * Emergency medical service kit
> * Removable tactical officer/SAR station
> * New direction finding system
> * New HF radio
> 
> The external modifications are marked in red squares for your reference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the pylons. These Bell 212s can be armed any time with gun pods and rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what Europeans, Swedish and British arms and systems is Myanmar getting *after the Rohingya issue and embargo?* If i remember correctly the answer @Aung Zaya gave to my questions previously in MM Defense Forum that these ATR-72 will be used as MPA and other necessary sensors will be added later. Now every MPA comes with a radar dome beneath the fuselage if i am not wrong which is missing in MN's ATR-72. Doesn't that mean you didn't get any MPA related radar and sensors because of the sanctions? Correct me if i am wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 527888
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh? So when did USN participated in any exercise with MN? Any link or photos?
> 
> https://navaltoday.com/2018/11/05/bangladesh-us-navy-kick-off-24th-carat-exercise/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes yes we were watching.












The ATR 72-500 that entered service on the Af Day is just a transport aircraft.
MAF has 2 ATR 42-320 MPAs, 0006 and 0007.
MAF has total of 6 x ATR 42/72 transport and 2 x ATR 42 MPAs.
I hope you will see dome and FLIR.
We also have maintenance facilities for ATR aircraft. Although owned by the Myanmar National Airlines, it also handle MAF's ATRs.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/aec/ATR-aircraft-repair-done-in-Yangon-for-the-first-t-30288729.html

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Please stop.





Tanveer666 said:


> But the real question is...
> Do you?


exactly... 

tbh imho, rohyngas are here to stay... maybe a couple of hundred here and there but 1 million!? don't expect them all to be resettled there.


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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> exactly...
> 
> tbh imho, rohyngas are here to stay... maybe a couple of hundred here and there but 1 million!? don't expect them all to be resettled there.


MM will be begging for their return. Just keep patience. We seen it many times.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

IMO ... Bangladesh should pursue the Gripen C/D, but with the Leonardo Grifo-E GaN AESA radar.

With the Gripen, the BAF will be free of relying on China, Russia or India. I don't think the US will be a factor in any way seeing that there's no animosity between Dhaka and Washington.

Moreover, seeing how Bangladesh's macro-economic standing is quite good, I think it's in good shape to also get a long-term line-of-credit from Sweden. Of the Western fighters, the Gripen is apparently the most economical to fly and support through the long-term. The C/D's acquisition cost is also lower than the E/F.

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## Tanveer666

TopCat said:


> MM will be begging for their return. Just keep patience. We seen it many times.


Why is that?

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## Nilgiri

Tanveer666 said:


> Why is that?



Coz he (Genghiz lineage babu) sez so!

@Aung Zaya @tarpitz

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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO ... Bangladesh should pursue the Gripen C/D, but with the Leonardo Grifo-E GaN AESA radar.
> 
> With the Gripen, the BAF will be free of relying on China, Russia or India. I don't think the US will be a factor in any way seeing that there's no animosity between Dhaka and Washington.
> 
> Moreover, seeing how Bangladesh's macro-economic standing is quite good, I think it's in good shape to also get a long-term line-of-credit from Sweden. Of the Western fighters, the Gripen is apparently the most economical to fly and support through the long-term. The C/D's acquisition cost is also lower than the E/F.



I agree completely.

This is IMO a pivotal moment for BAF. The F-7 needs replacement. And the air arm is hoping for expansion.

In addition, the political equation has changed somewhat. The Rohingya debacle pretty much showed where Bangladesh really stands with Russia, India and China.

On the other hand, the US may have started to view Bangladesh a little differently vis a vis the China/USA rivalry sensing an oppurtunity to steer Bangladesh away from China.

As you have said, fundamentally, Bangaldesh is a Western oriented nation in good standing with those countries.

In addition, if the Bangladeshi economy truley is improved and improving as some say, finances will not be as much of an issue.

Thus, at this point in time, there is an intersection of variables that are conducive to Bangaldesh breaking the cycle of Chinese and Russian supplied fighters and buy Western.

The Gripen is the obvious choice.

F-16s are still out of reach mostly for political purposes. Also F-16s as we have seen carry many many strings.

The Gripen is both politically and economically a good choice as I can't really see any reason why Sweden would be prevented from selling the platform to Bangladesh.

In addition, from the US side, this also allows Bangaldesh to fall a little bit further away from the Chinese sphere of influence without directly involving the US. (i.e. F-16 supply)

But I fear there is a real lack of vision and insight into the above mentioned political realities by the decision makers of the BAF.

Also, by far Western platforms and training are superior to anything Russia/China sourced.

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## TopCat

Tanveer666 said:


> Why is that?


Because I seen BD and how desperate we were to bring back chakma refugee. It was not that we loved them but to bring an end to the international condemnation. For mm to go back to the growth they must have to end this rohingya situation.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> This is IMO a pivotal moment for BAF. The F-7 needs replacement. And the air arm is hoping for expansion.
> 
> In addition, the political equation has changed somewhat. The Rohingya debacle pretty much showed where Bangladesh really stands with Russia, India and China.
> 
> On the other hand, the US may have started to view Bangladesh a little differently vis a vis the China/USA rivalry sensing an oppurtunity to steer Bangladesh away from China.
> 
> As you have said, fundamentally, Bangaldesh is a Western oriented nation in good standing with those countries.
> 
> In addition, if the Bangladeshi economy truley is improved and improving as some say, finances will not be as much of an issue.
> 
> Thus, at this point in time, there is an intersection of variables that are conducive to Bangaldesh breaking the cycle of Chinese and Russian supplied fighters and buy Western.
> 
> The Gripen is the obvious choice.
> 
> F-16s are still out of reach mostly for political purposes. Also F-16s as we have seen carry many many strings.
> 
> The Gripen is both politically and economically a good choice as I can't really see any reason why Sweden would be prevented from selling the platform to Bangladesh.
> 
> In addition, from the US side, this also allows Bangaldesh to fall a little bit further away from the Chinese sphere of influence without directly involving the US. (i.e. F-16 supply)
> 
> But I fear there is a real lack of vision and insight into the above mentioned political realities by the decision makers of the BAF.
> 
> Also, by far Western platforms and training are superior to anything Russia/China sourced.


The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping. 

For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine. 

Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?

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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping.
> 
> For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine.
> 
> Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?



I agree. This is why im concerned with the thought process, or lack there of, of those making these decisions.

I get the sense that the folks making the calls are not very sophiscticated in their thinking.

The route taken so far does seem to be haphazard, as you've said.

It's a shame because there is alot of potential for BAF to become a potent little force if the correct things are done.

This would have been the PERFECT opportunity to transition into the Western ecosystem of fighter aircraft.

Regarding the Yaks, I think perhaps they were planning on getting some SU-30 eventually until the Russians played games with the pricing supposedly.

All the more reason to buy Western. The Russians wouldnt be able to pull that sorta stunt again.


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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping.
> 
> For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine.
> 
> Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?



Dude, you started well but now are totally lost.

What you are looking for would cost BAF at least 3 billion US dollars and needed US clearance at a time well before Rohingya issue.

BD government had only in the last 2 years managed to implement tax reforms and now tax to GDP ratio is increasing at 0.5% every year.

BD is not a military state like Pakistan is.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The sense I get with Bangladesh's armed forces modernization is that there's a lot of 'sprawl' ... i.e., get a lot of different kinds of things ... but no 'consolidation' and synergy-mapping.
> 
> For example, there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130; the BAF might have been better-off fast-tracking a modern fighter first (e.g., Gripen) and, if it had gotten Gripen, wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT. Why? Same GE F404 engine.
> 
> Likewise, I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured. Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens) and a Saab land-based Giraffe 8A, 4A and 1X-based air surveillance set-up (and work around a single air and sea surveillance picture), and then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)?



some good points Bilal Bhai... the one that I most liked is the suggestion towards standardization.... this effort has just begun with some areas only.... platforms are still being experimented with, which the concepts are getting solidified... 

the Navy is acquiring vessels that are more-or-less similar in design, which can be modified to serve different purpose... the Air Force is standardizing Mi-series and AW-series helicopters.... other forces are also following Air Force lines when it comes to flying platforms.... the Army has standardized BTR-series vehicles.... SHORAD systems are being standardized across the Air Force and the Army.... some different platforms are still being evaluated before a long-term decision is to be made.... 

in fact, policies had been made without focus all these years.... or should I say, there was hardly a policy... now things have just started to look more organized.... long-time allies are still being evaluated, which ultimately will ensure steady supply of critical items.... also current and future ToT possibilities would be part of the considerations, as the state considers setting up technology-based defence industries... platforms, I believe, would follow such thoughts....

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## Avicenna

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> some good points Bilal Bhai... the one that I most liked is the suggestion towards standardization.... this effort has just begun with some areas only.... platforms are still being experimented with, which the concepts are getting solidified...
> 
> the Navy is acquiring vessels that are more-or-less similar in design, which can be modified to serve different purpose... the Air Force is standardizing Mi-series and AW-series helicopters.... other forces are also following Air Force lines when it comes to flying platforms.... the Army has standardized BTR-series vehicles.... SHORAD systems are being standardized across the Air Force and the Army.... some different platforms are still being evaluated before a long-term decision is to be made....
> 
> in fact, policies had been made without focus all these years.... or should I say, there was hardly a policy... now things have just started to look more organized.... long-time allies are still being evaluated, which ultimately will ensure steady supply of critical items.... also current and future ToT possibilities would be part of the considerations, as the state considers setting up technology-based defence industries... platforms, I believe, would follow such thoughts....



I hope this is the case.

Also I like your signature. Very true.

I would hope Bangaldesh finds itself sourcing from EU, UK, Sweden, Turkey, South Korea and Japan more and from China and Russia less.

I don't mind Bangaldesh cooperating a little closer with the US, knowing full well there's no free lunch with the US.

The real benefit I am seeking is more access to Western training and tactics.






Also, if the Phillipines can, so can Bangladesh.

The same also goes for Botswana.


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## Imran Khan

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you started well but now are totally lost.
> 
> What you are looking for would cost BAF at least 3 billion US dollars and needed US clearance at a time well before Rohingya issue.
> 
> BD government had only in the last 2 years managed to implement tax reforms and now tax to GDP ratio is increasing at 0.5% every year.
> 
> BD is not a military state like Pakistan is.


money will not save you from enemy . rohingya episode is an example did mayanmar asked you about your GDP - EXPORTS -TAX RATE - FOREX RESERVES before pumping one million rohingya to your country ?no they did not .
i am not trolling but there is a story 

A famous account describes how Hulagu imprisoned the caliph in a roomful of treasure and brought him gold on a tray instead of food. The caliph protested that he could not eat gold, and Hulagu asked him why he hadn’t used his money to strengthen his army and defend against the Mongols.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you started well but now are totally lost.
> 
> *What you are looking for would cost BAF at least 3 billion US dollars and needed US clearance at a time well before Rohingya issue.*
> 
> BD government had only in the last 2 years managed to implement tax reforms and now tax to GDP ratio is increasing at 0.5% every year.
> 
> BD is not a military state like Pakistan is.


Not only is $3bn the baseline of what it'd take to modernize an air force, but for a country such as Bangladesh -- i.e. with good macro outlook -- it should be able to get a 10-15 year-term line-of-credit from Sweden to back the deal. It's doable.

This isn't about being a military state or not, the BAF has to reach a certain threshold of capability to meet minimum deterrence. IMO, with Myanmar and India, your air combat capabilities should be built on high availability, low service costs, comprehensive air and surface surveillance, and potent capability. 

The Gripen + Erieye ER + Giraffe 4A/8A should do it, and even if it takes a $5 billion program spread across 20 years, it'd be worth it (outlay is $250 m a year).

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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Not only is $3bn the baseline of what it'd take to modernize an air force, but for a country such as Bangladesh -- i.e. with good macro outlook -- it should be able to get a 10-15 year-term line-of-credit from Sweden to back the deal. This isn't about being a military state or not, the BAF has to reach a certain threshold of capability to meet minimum deterrence.






Yak-130 were brought in 2013. At that time BD was not in any position fiscally to spend 3 billion US dollars on Gripens, AWACs and other equipment.

Now in 2018, the situation has totally changed with a much more improved BD economy and the US more likely to allow the sale of Gripen to BD with US engine due to Rohingya issue.

Let us wait and see as we will almost certainly see the fighter jet aircraft contract signed next year.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

UKBengali said:


> Yak-130 were brought in 2013. At that time BD was not in any position fiscally to spend 3 billion US dollars on Gripens, AWACs and other equipment.
> 
> Now in 2018, the situation has totally changed with a much more improved BD economy and the US more likely to allow the sale of Gripen to BD with US engine due to Rohingya issue.
> 
> Let us wait and see as we will almost certainly see the fighter jet aircraft contract signed next year.


They shouldn't have gotten the Yak-130 at all. Just delay all purchases until the fighter is first selected, and then move from there. But now, you're on the hook for Yak-130s while having a number of other, but bigger, priorities.


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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They shouldn't have gotten the Yak-130 at all. Just delay all purchases until the fighter is first selected, and then move from there. But now, you're on the hook for Yak-130s while having a number of other, but bigger, priorities.




Easy to say that with hindsight but BAF kind of like needs a heavy fighter like SU-30 and that is likely the rational behind the YAK-130 purchase.


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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Not only is $3bn the baseline of what it'd take to modernize an air force, but for a country such as Bangladesh -- i.e. with good macro outlook -- it should be able to get a 10-15 year-term line-of-credit from Sweden to back the deal. It's doable.
> 
> This isn't about being a military state or not, the BAF has to reach a certain threshold of capability to meet minimum deterrence. IMO, with Myanmar and India, your air combat capabilities should be built on high availability, low service costs, comprehensive air and surface surveillance, and potent capability.
> 
> The Gripen + Erieye ER + Giraffe 4A/8A should do it, and even if it takes a $5 billion program spread across 20 years, it'd be worth it (outlay is $250 m a year).



HEY BAF PROCUREMENT GUYS!

LISTEN TO THIS GUY!


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

UKBengali said:


> Easy to say that with hindsight but BAF kind of like needs a heavy fighter like SU-30 and that is likely the rational behind the YAK-130 purchase.


I don't buy the 'hindsight' argument. The BAF knew (with the MiG-29) exactly what the issues would be with flying Russian aircraft, i.e., low upfront cost, but heavily reliant on Russia for life-cycle maintenance and munitions. This was always an issue and it wasn't going to change with the Su-30, MiG-29M/M2, MiG-35 or Su-35. 

At some point, planners just have to take a step back and examine other doctrines, not just jump into every single opportunity. Otherwise, you end up with a haphazard, sprawling approach. 

@Avicenna what would be ironic though is that if the BAF went for Gripen and cast away Chinese and Russian planes, it'd return to its pre-1971 roots of flying Western fighters!

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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I don't buy the 'hindsight' argument. The BAF knew (with the MiG-29) exactly what the issues would be with flying Russian aircraft, i.e., low upfront cost, but heavily reliant on Russia for life-cycle maintenance and munitions. This was always an issue and it wasn't going to change with the Su-30, MiG-29M/M2, MiG-35 or Su-35.
> 
> At some point, planners just have to take a step back and examine other doctrines, not just jump into every single opportunity. Otherwise, you end up with a haphazard, sprawling approach.
> 
> @Avicenna what would be ironic though is that if the BAF went for Gripen and cast away Chinese and Russian planes, it'd return to its pre-1971 roots of flying Western fighters!




Actually there is no alternative for BAF but to go for SU-30 as a heavy fighter, than can fly out deep into the Bay of Bengal to deliver heavy ordnance such as bombs and missiles. BAF desperately wanted the SU-30SME as it can then assist BN if need be. US will not sell BD F-15E.

I agree with you that Gripen is actually the best option for BD in terms of capability and cost but not sure whether BAF top-brass would even be negotiating with anyone apart from Russia and China for new fighters. They seem to be the least competent and strategically minded out of the 3 branches of the military


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

UKBengali said:


> Actually there is no alternative for BAF but to go for SU-30 as a heavy fighter, than can fly out deep into the Bay of Bengal to deliver heavy ordnance such as bombs and missiles. BAF desperately wanted the SU-30SME as it can then assist BN if need be. US will not sell BD F-15E.
> 
> I agree with you that Gripen is actually the best option for BD in terms of capability and cost but not sure whether BAF top-brass would even be negotiating with anyone apart from Russia and China for new fighters. They seem to be the least competent and strategically minded out of the 3 branches of the military


The Su-30 is also costlier to maintain and probably has a longer turnaround time than the Gripen, i.e., lower ops availability. Unless the BAF is going emulate India and have a lot of Su-30s, it makes very little sense. 

Besides, the Gripen can also deploy long-range missiles, such as the RBS-15Mk3 anti-ship missile, to keep threats out of BD's EEZ. However, to secure your maritime domain, the best approach is for the BAF and BN to collaborate; South Korean-built Type 209/1400 SSKs and RBS-15Mk3-equipped FACs can deter enemy ships, and the Gripen with BVRAAM can keep your skies clear.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> allow the sale of Gripen to BD with US engine due to Rohingya issue.


rohynga issue isn't big enough to warrant sale of advanced military products to bangladesh... myanmar isn't threatening bd with war so this point is irrelevant. US would however be flexible to grant some access to their products should bangladesh take their sides in international policies



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They shouldn't have gotten the Yak-130 at all. Just delay all purchases until the fighter is first selected, and then move from there. But now, you're on the hook for Yak-130s while having a number of other, but bigger, priorities.


i think a lot had to do with the financial situation and the plan that 2008 air chief had in mind.
fighter pilot number decreased to all time low after decade of ignorance... no fighters or trainers and so the yaks were bought to train new generation of fighter pilots... even then some they manage to crash two yaks from pilot error during breakoff... thankfully the first batch of pilot for a new squadron have passed (11) and will be among the first to fly the future new jet...
air chief and many senior fighter pilots are already certified in sukhoi fighters so i don't think there's any going back now

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> rohynga issue isn't big enough to warrant sale of advanced military products to bangladesh... myanmar isn't threatening bd with war so this point is irrelevant. US would however be flexible to grant some access to their products should bangladesh take their sides in international policies
> 
> 
> i think a lot had to do with the financial situation and the plan that 2008 air chief had in mind.
> fighter pilot number decreased to all time low after decade of ignorance... no fighters or trainers and so the yaks were bought to train new fighter pilots... even then some they manage to crash two yaks from pilot error during breakoff... thankfully the first batch of pilot for a new squadron have passed (11) and will be among the first to fly the future new jet...
> air chief and many senior fighter pilots are already certified in sukhoi fighters so i don't think there's any going back now



Hi/low mix?

Su-30 and Gripen?

The way it seems if Bangladesh’s primary antagonist is Myanmar, I have serious doubts as to the Chinese as we have seen.

Although such a mix presents logistical problems of course.

Politically Bangladesh is in a pickle.

Though it’s not too late. 

Please if any BAF guys are reading this.

Pursue the Gripen and get into the Western ecosystem.

This is a critical juncture for the BAF.

The wrong decisions here (I.e. short sighted ness) is gonna bite Bangladesh in the a33.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Michael Corleone said:


> rohynga issue isn't big enough to warrant sale of advanced military products to bangladesh... myanmar isn't threatening bd with war so this point is irrelevant. US would however be flexible to grant some access to their products should bangladesh take their sides in international policies
> 
> 
> i think a lot had to do with the financial situation and the plan that 2008 air chief had in mind.
> fighter pilot number decreased to all time low after decade of ignorance... no fighters or trainers and so the yaks were bought to train new generation of fighter pilots... even then some they manage to crash two yaks from pilot error during breakoff... thankfully the first batch of pilot for a new squadron have passed (11) and will be among the first to fly the future new jet...
> air chief and many senior fighter pilots are already certified in sukhoi fighters so i don't think there's any going back now


The alternative was to take the approach of Indonesia and the Philippines -- i.e. the South Korean T-50. The big advantage of that trainer is that it uses the GE F404 (i.e., engine commonality with the Gripen) and that it has a light fighter variant (FA-50). That would have been a good starting point, even in lieu of fighters in the short-term (until a good long-term solution is found).

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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The Su-30 is also costlier to maintain and probably has a longer turnaround time than the Gripen, i.e., lower ops availability. Unless the BAF is going emulate India and have a lot of Su-30s, it makes very little sense.
> 
> Besides, the Gripen can also deploy long-range missiles, such as the RBS-15Mk3 anti-ship missile, to keep threats out of BD's EEZ. However, to secure your maritime domain, the best approach is for the BAF and BN to collaborate; South Korean-built Type 209/1400 SSKs and RBS-15Mk3-equipped FACs can deter enemy ships, and the Gripen with BVRAAM can keep your skies clear.




SU-30 and Gripen are two completely different types of aircraft. They have their own roles.

BAF can purchase both SU-30SME for heavy long range strike and Gripen as a light air-superiority fighter.

SU-30 in IAF has an availability of 50% which is not that good but this is the only game in town for a heavy long-ranged strike fighter. As well as helping out BD in Bay of Bengal with a massive missile/bomb load it can also be used if need be for deep strike into enemy territory.

Gripen and SU-30SME is the best combo for BAF going forward. BAF wants SU-30SME but no idea if it is trying to get Gripen.



Michael Corleone said:


> rohynga issue isn't big enough to warrant sale of advanced military products to bangladesh... myanmar isn't threatening bd with war so this point is irrelevant. US would however be flexible to grant some access to their products should bangladesh take their sides in international policies




Dude, I am talking about US agreeing to release engine for Gripen sale to BD.
No one was talking about BD getting F-35 etc.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The alternative was to take the approach of Indonesia and the Philippines -- i.e. the South Korean T-50. The big advantage of that trainer is that it uses the GE F404 (i.e., engine commonality with the Gripen) and that it has a light fighter variant (FA-50). That would have been a good starting point, even in lieu of fighters in the short-term (until a good long-term solution is found).




The problem is the US components. It has both an US engine and US missiles such as sidewinder and AMRAAM.

If we are not sure of being able to get Gripen with just US engine, then there is less certainty over getting this jet that has more US components.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

UKBengali said:


> SU-30 and Gripen are two completely different types of aircraft. They have their own roles.
> 
> BAF can purchase both SU-30SME for heavy long range strike and Gripen as a light air-superiority fighter.
> 
> SU-30 in IAF has an availability of 50% which is not that good but this is the only game in town for a heavy long-ranged strike fighter. As well as helping out BD in Bay of Bengal with a massive missile/bomb load it can also be used if need be for deep strike into enemy territory.
> 
> Gripen and SU-30SME is the best combo for BAF going forward. BAF wants SU-30SME but no idea if it is trying to get Gripen.


Honestly, forget about the 'hi/lo' combination. This is an outdated concept unless you need a specialist to carry out a few isolated roles, such as deep-strike. But unless you really need it, they're not that feasible.

Today, the key is to ensure that your mainstay fighter platform has modern subsystems, e.g., AESA radar, integrated EW/ECM suite, etc. Second, you can meet your long-range attack needs by getting the right munitions, e.g., AShM, SOW, ALCM, etc. As it stands, the Gripen fits the bill.

Going for the SU-30SME at this point would be burning resources. Basically a repeat of your MiG-29 saga, it should be avoided IMHO. If you need long-range attack assets, then invest in assembling your own cruise missiles.



> The problem is the US components. It has both an US engine and US missiles such as sidewinder and AMRAAM.
> 
> If we are not sure of being able to get Gripen with just US engine, then there is less certainty over getting this jet that has more US components.


Unless you're planning to invade India, take US officials hostage, or have a clandestine nuclear weapons program (or all three), you don't need to worry about US sanctions on US components.

PS: for deep strike, you can acquire lots of cruise missiles today and use them as a stopgap until the KF-X or TF-X come alive, and in 10-15 years, select one of those.

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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Honestly, forget about the 'hi/lo' combination. This is an outdated concept. Today, the key is to ensure that your mainstay fighter platform has modern subsystems, e.g., AESA radar, integrated EW/ECM suite, etc. Second, you can meet whatever long-range attack needs you have by getting the right munitions, e.g., AShM, SOW, ALCM, etc. As it stands, the Gripen fits the bill. Going for the SU-30SME at this point would be burning resources.




This is the first time I have heard that the Gripen C/D is anything more than a short-legged light fighter. It simply cannot deliver a heavy bomb-load to far away targets like SU-30. Using missiles for long-range attacks means you deliver less load to target. Anyway Gripen C/D cannot carry nearly as much weight as SU-30. Gripen can carry a maximum of 5.3T whereas SU-30 can have 8T.

If you are talking about Gripen E then the picture is better as that can carry 7T.
With a single 290 gallon external tank, the Gripen E has a combat radius of 1300km compared to 1500Km for SU-30SME which only needs internal fuel. Range is a big killer in favour of Su-30SME here.
Su-30SME has 12 hardpoints as opposed to 10 for Gripen E.

BD economy is strong enough that it can buy both aircraft now and this is the thinking in BAF.

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## ghost250

UKBengali said:


> This is the first time I have heard that the Gripen C/D is anything more than a short-legged light fighter. It simply cannot deliver a heavy bomb-load to far away targets like SU-30. Using missiles for long-range attacks means you deliver less load to target. Anyway Gripen C/D cannot carry nearly as much weight as SU-30. Gripen can carry a maximum of 5.3T whereas SU-30 can have 8T.
> 
> If you are talking about Gripen E then the picture is better as that can carry 7T.
> With a single 290 gallon external tank, the Gripen E has a combat radius of 1300km compared to 1500Km for SU-30SME which only needs internal fuel. Range is a big killer in favour of Su-30SME here.
> Su-30SME has 12 hardpoints as opposed to 10 for Gripen E.
> 
> BD economy is strong enough that it can buy both aircraft now and this is the thinking in BAF.


i dont think sukhois r coming..BAF chief mentioned about cost effective fighter..nd sukhois r not cost effective at all..all we can get now is mig-35..


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The alternative was to take the approach of Indonesia and the Philippines -- i.e. the South Korean T-50. The big advantage of that trainer is that it uses the GE F404 (i.e., engine commonality with the Gripen) and that it has a light fighter variant (FA-50). That would have been a good starting point, even in lieu of fighters in the short-term (until a good long-term solution is found).


but then i've heard the current yaks are also used in ground strike roles... had we gone with T-50... we would have needed new missiles, pods, rockets etc



UKBengali said:


> Dude, I am talking about US agreeing to release engine for Gripen sale to BD.
> No one was talking about BD getting F-35 etc.


US ridiculed bangladesh's request for f-16 20 years ago because they thought such an "advanced" jet is not appropriate for us... heck forget about those, they hadn't even agreed to selling us c-130s engines, which resulted in one airframe sitting ducks for decade... if sourcing a legacy technology (turboprop) is so difficult, how do you reckon we source something like a turbofan engine?

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> US ridiculed bangladesh's request for f-16 20 years ago because they thought such an "advanced" jet is not appropriate for us... heck forget about those, they hadn't even agreed to selling us c-130s engines, which resulted in one airframe sitting ducks for decade... if sourcing a legacy technology (turboprop) is so difficult, how do you reckon we source something like a turbofan engine?



1996 is not the same as 2018.

In 1996, BD could not really afford to pay for 27 F-16s and the US was in a way doing BD a favour.
Now BD has a 300 US billion dollar economy growing at 8% a year. The Western media is now full of articles praising BD economy and it is no longer seen as the basket case like it was in the past

US is not even selling Gripen to BD but just not vetoing it. They have allowed the sale of Gripen to lots of other countries like S Africa that are not even considered US allies.

Anyway, no-one knows if the BAF are even actively considering the Gripen and so the whole speculation may all just be pointless.

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> US ridiculed bangladesh's request for f-16 20 years ago because they thought such an "advanced" jet is not appropriate for us... heck forget about those, *they hadn't even agreed to selling us c-130s engines*, which resulted in one airframe sitting ducks for decade... if sourcing a legacy technology (turboprop) is so difficult, how do you reckon we source something like a turbofan engine?



May be the engine is a rarity these days, may be they dont want to spare those old engines as they might need them for their own aircraft in service. Sourcing from junk yard is not always easy. If they could sell C-130, there were no other reason for them to sell a engine for it.

USA congress will not allow a LDC country which lives on handout to spend billion in F-16. It was probably Lockheed or somebody from defense department wanted to initiate a sale on strategic ground.

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## The Ronin

But doesn't BAF have to buy a complete different European trainer if it selects Gripen? Beside the engine and weapon package is American. Don't think we will get the whole/half weapon even if we manage to get the fighter somehow. USA have been denying to give us fighter since 70s.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> wait for the US T-X to materialize and get that as its LIFT.



USA will give their latest trainer to us?! As LIFT? When we can't even think about Super Tucano or T-50?! No freaking way!! Besides cost will be higher in the beginning, don't think it will decrease even later like other American fighters. And weapon package is still an issue. Read somewhere Philippine didn't get the full weapon package with their T-50.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> there was no need IMO to get 16 (?) Yak-130;





Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> They shouldn't have gotten the Yak-130 at all. Just delay all purchases until the fighter is first selected, and then move from there. But now, you're on the hook for Yak-130s while having a number of other, but bigger, priorities.



BAF probably have/had plan to induct more Su-30 and use some Yak-130 for ground attack to replace A-5. *Don't forget those were procured under 1 billion Russian credit. And currently there's no better alternative than Russian fighter for maritime strike role. *

We are already lagging behind in numbers and quality. You want us to delay more? 



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I don't understand why the LY80 is being procured.



Cheap, cheaper than fighters. Don't you think we are in dire need of MRSAM and multi layer air defense? Cause SHORADS and MANPADS can't do shit actually against fighter or some missiles.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Why not start with surveillance -- e.g., 3 Erieye ER AEW&C (with the Gripens)



BAF have plans to induct AEW&C, hoping for C-295. But this is not the priority now.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> then proceed with the Umkhonto ER (30-35 km)



BN could've gotten it with Korean corvette but the Chinese Type-56 won the tender because they offered ToT.



Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> Navy is acquiring vessels that are more-or-less similar in design



Such as?



Avicenna said:


> Also, if the Phillipines can, so can Bangladesh.
> 
> The same also goes for Botswana.



Did Philippine choose Gripen yet?

Don't think Botswana still did either.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...ns-for-botswana&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Besides, the Gripen can also deploy long-range missiles, such as the RBS-15Mk3 anti-ship missile, to keep threats out of BD's EEZ. However, to secure your maritime domain, the best approach is for the BAF and BN to collaborate; South Korean-built Type 209/1400 SSKs and RBS-15Mk3-equipped FACs can deter enemy ships, and the Gripen with BVRAAM can keep your skies clear.



Jeez!! Looks like you are all in for Swedish chocolate. RBS-15Mk3 anti-ship missile was never on our military's radar, don't think it ever will be. They will stuck around Otomat, Exocet, Chinese and Russian missile.

FAC is a no go as BoB is getting rougher day by day. We are building larger and better Durjoy class LPC with C-704 missile and torpedo. BN can later modify them with better armament with longer range. The ASW version will patrol with Type-56 to reduce the workload. 

Getting S.Korean Chang Bogo isn't a bad idea. BN has plan operate 6 sub by 2030. if we can manage to get 3 from Chinese/Russian (Amur/S-20) and 3 from Western (Chang Bogo/Type-212/214) possibly with ToT then we won't have to fully rely on one of them. If i am not wrong Indonesia got 3 Chang Bogo with ToT.



shourov323 said:


> i dont think sukhois r coming..BAF chief mentioned about cost effective fighter..nd sukhois r not cost effective at all..all we can get now is mig-35..



What? Where did you get this?

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

UKBengali said:


> This is the first time I have heard that the Gripen C/D is anything more than a short-legged light fighter. It simply cannot deliver a heavy bomb-load to far away targets like SU-30. Using missiles for long-range attacks means you deliver less load to target. Anyway Gripen C/D cannot carry nearly as much weight as SU-30. Gripen can carry a maximum of 5.3T whereas SU-30 can have 8T.
> 
> If you are talking about Gripen E then the picture is better as that can carry 7T.
> With a single 290 gallon external tank, the Gripen E has a combat radius of 1300km compared to 1500Km for SU-30SME which only needs internal fuel. Range is a big killer in favour of Su-30SME here.
> Su-30SME has 12 hardpoints as opposed to 10 for Gripen E.
> 
> BD economy is strong enough that it can buy both aircraft now and this is the thinking in BAF.


The Gripen C/D has been certified to carry the KEPD 350 ALCM and the RBS-15Mk3. Those are two tier-one stand-off range weapons for deep-strike and anti-shipping.

Sure, the C/D's range is less, but that's why you rely on the ALCM/AShMs -- there's enough range there to keep your EEZ clear. The rest, e.g. payload capacity and hardpoints, is for BAF an issue on the margins, and focusing on it now will be a resource drain.

Besides, I don't know why you're even thinking about deep-strike. You'd need to build substantial OCA capabilities to undertake deep strike in enemy territory, and seeing how you yourself said BAF has a resource limit, how will it build it in short order? In the end, the Su-30SME itself will launch SOWs from within Bangladeshi territory, and at that point, you would have been better off with the Gripen C/D.


Michael Corleone said:


> but then i've heard the current yaks are also used in ground strike roles... had we gone with T-50... we would have needed new missiles, pods, rockets etc
> 
> 
> US ridiculed bangladesh's request for f-16 20 years ago because they thought such an "advanced" jet is not appropriate for us... heck forget about those, they hadn't even agreed to selling us c-130s engines, which resulted in one airframe sitting ducks for decade... if sourcing a legacy technology (turboprop) is so difficult, how do you reckon we source something like a turbofan engine?


IMO...I doubt that. If you're in a good macro-economic position, then you should be able to enter the FMS process with the US with very little trouble. You should get your diplomats in the US to work harder.


The Ronin said:


> But doesn't BAF have to buy a complete different European trainer if it selects Gripen? Beside the engine and weapon package is American. Don't think we will get the whole/half weapon even if we manage to get the fighter somehow. USA have been denying to give us fighter since 70s.
> 
> 
> 
> USA will give their latest trainer to us?! As LIFT? When we can't even think about Super Tucano or T-50?! No freaking way!! Besides cost will be higher in the beginning, don't think it will decrease even later like other American fighters. And weapon package is still an issue. Read somewhere Philippine didn't get the full weapon package with their T-50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAF probably have/had plan to induct more Su-30 and use some Yak-130 for ground attack to replace A-5. *Don't forget those were procured under 1 billion Russian credit. And currently there's no better alternative than Russian fighter for maritime strike role. *
> 
> We are already lagging behind in numbers and quality. You want us to delay more?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap, cheaper than fighters. Don't you think we are in dire need of MRSAM and multi layer air defense? Cause SHORADS and MANPADS can't do shit actually against fighter or some missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> BAF have plans to induct AEW&C, hoping for C-295. But this is not the priority now.
> 
> 
> 
> BN could've gotten it with Korean corvette but the Chinese Type-56 won the tender because they offered ToT.
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Philippine choose Gripen yet?
> 
> Don't think Botswana still did either.
> 
> http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...ns-for-botswana&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez!! Looks like you are all in for Swedish chocolate. RBS-15Mk3 anti-ship missile was never on our military's radar, don't think it ever will be. They will stuck around Otomat, Exocet, Chinese and Russian missile.
> 
> FAC is a no go as BoB is getting rougher day by day. We are building larger and better Durjoy class LPC with C-704 missile and torpedo. BN can later modify them with better armament with longer range. The ASW version will patrol with Type-56 to reduce the workload.
> 
> Getting S.Korean Chang Bogo isn't a bad idea. BN has plan operate 6 sub by 2030. if we can manage to get 3 from Chinese/Russian (Amur/S-20) and 3 from Western (Chang Bogo/Type-212/214) possibly with ToT then we won't have to fully rely on one of them. If i am not wrong Indonesia got 3 Chang Bogo with ToT.
> 
> 
> 
> What? Where did you get this?


Unless the Chinese are going to help you forge ship grade steel, then "ToT" is a stretch and just an excuse to ignore one bidder over the other. It's a common tactic and a lot of states, including Pakistan, have fallen for it time and time again. 

Second, the Russian line-of-credit is a loan, you still have to pay it off, and now you're seeing an exit of money over 5-10 years due to that deal. 

Third, IMO, a lot of the barriers you have to getting US/European weaponry is from your end. There is always a way when you have a good macro-economic position, so you need to leverage that more actively.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> 1996 is not the same as 2018.
> 
> In 1996, BD could not really afford to pay for 27 F-16s and the US was in a way doing BD a favour.
> Now BD has a 300 US billion dollar economy growing at 8% a year. The Western media is now full of articles praising BD economy and it is no longer seen as the basket case like it was in the past
> 
> US is not even selling Gripen to BD but just not vetoing it. They have allowed the sale of Gripen to lots of other countries like S Africa that are not even considered US allies.
> 
> Anyway, no-one knows if the BAF are even actively considering the Gripen and so the whole speculation may all just be pointless.


yet it's still difficult to buy 8 jets with the current economy, pity


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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The Gripen C/D has been certified to carry the KEPD 350 ALCM and the RBS-15Mk3. Those are two tier-one stand-off range weapons for deep-strike and anti-shipping.
> 
> Sure, the C/D's range is less, but that's why you rely on the ALCM/AShMs -- there's enough range there to keep your EEZ clear. The rest, e.g. payload capacity and hardpoints, is for BAF an issue on the margins, and focusing on it now will be a resource drain.
> 
> Besides, I don't know why you're even thinking about deep-strike. You'd need to build substantial OCA capabilities to undertake deep strike in enemy territory, and seeing how you yourself said BAF has a resource limit, how will it build it in short order? In the end, the Su-30SME itself will launch SOWs from within Bangladeshi territory, and at that point, you would have been better off with the Gripen C/D.
> 
> IMO...I doubt that. If you're in a good macro-economic position, then you should be able to enter the FMS process with the US with very little trouble. You should get your diplomats in the US to work harder.
> 
> Unless the Chinese are going to help you forge ship grade steel, then "ToT" is a stretch and just an excuse to ignore one bidder over the other. It's a common tactic and a lot of states, including Pakistan, have fallen for it time and time again.
> 
> Second, the Russian line-of-credit is a loan, you still have to pay it off, and now you're seeing an exit of money over 5-10 years due to that deal.
> 
> Third, IMO, a lot of the barriers you have to getting US/European weaponry is from your end. There is always a way when you have a good macro-economic position, so you need to leverage that more actively.



I think the main barrier is from the Bangladeshi side.

I have a rather low opinion of Bangladeshi decision makers from my observations of pettiness and short sightedness growing up and seeing my elders in "official" positions in various capacities. (immigrants in the NYC area)

Politics and personal agrandizement seem to top any actual good works.

I can imagine this to be the case on the national level.

Still its not too late.

Even with the Yak-130, I don't see why Bangaldesh can't buy the Gripen.

Is there that much of a difference between the Yak and the M346?

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> I think the main barrier is from the Bangladeshi side.
> 
> I have a rather low opinion of Bangladeshi decision makers from my observations of pettiness and short sightedness growing up and seeing my elders in "official" positions in various capacities.
> 
> Politics and personal agrandizement seem to top any actual good works.
> 
> I can imagine this to be the case on the national level.
> 
> Still its not too late.
> 
> Even with the Yak-130, I don't see why Bangaldesh can't buy the Gripen.
> 
> Is there that much of a difference between the Yak and the M346?


They're the same class, they can make due with the Yak-130. My issue was getting 16(!) LIFT without a proper multi-role fighter to feed upwards.

I fully remember writing about the first bid for 8 a year or so ago. Sad nothing came of it, especially now that the Myanmar Air Force has a proper BVR+AShW element via the FC-1. I wouldn't be surprised if the MAF follows up with the GB6+ER, which seems to be a small ALCM.

36 Gripen C/D with Grifo-E would end it for them IMO.

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## LKJ86

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The Gripen C/D has been certified to carry the KEPD 350 ALCM and the RBS-15Mk3. Those are two tier-one stand-off range weapons for deep-strike and anti-shipping.
> 
> Sure, the C/D's range is less, but that's why you rely on the ALCM/AShMs -- there's enough range there to keep your EEZ clear. The rest, e.g. payload capacity and hardpoints, is for BAF an issue on the margins, and focusing on it now will be a resource drain.
> 
> Besides, I don't know why you're even thinking about deep-strike. You'd need to build substantial OCA capabilities to undertake deep strike in enemy territory, and seeing how you yourself said BAF has a resource limit, how will it build it in short order? In the end, the Su-30SME itself will launch SOWs from within Bangladeshi territory, and at that point, you would have been better off with the Gripen C/D.


There was J-10A vs Thailand's Gripen C/D during China & Thailand airforce joint exercise in 2017 and 2018. Gripen C/D didn't perform well.

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.







__ https://www.facebook.com/




listen carefully from 1.35


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## Avicenna

shourov323 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> listen carefully from 1.35



I can't really make it out?

The most cost effective one?


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Even with the Yak-130, I don't see why Bangaldesh can't buy the Gripen.
> 
> Is there that much of a difference between the Yak and the M346?



Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I fully remember writing about the first bid for 8 a year or so ago. Sad nothing came of it



It has only been one year or so. No need to be sad. Other countries like India, Indonesia, Myanmar also took times for their fighter deal and other procurement. Hopefully we might hear something good at the first Q of 2019. 

@shourov323 he said the most cost effective one. Didn't indicate anything specifically. In that case J-10 and JF-17 is most cost effective one available.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.
> 
> 
> 
> It has only been one year or so. No need to be sad. Other countries like India, Indonesia, Myanmar also took times for their fighter deal and other procurement. Hopefully we might hear something good at the first Q of 2019.
> 
> @shourov323 he said the most cost effective one. Didn't indicate anything specifically. In that case J-10 and JF-17 is most cost effective one available.



Cost effective and cheap are two different things. 

I don't know how he meant it but probably meant cheap.


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Cost effective and cheap are two different things.
> 
> I don't know how he meant it but probably meant cheap.



Price and maintenance cost of J-10 and Jf-17 will definitely be cheaper than any other existing fighter.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Price and maintenance cost of J-10 and Jf-17 will definitely be cheaper than any other existing fighter.



Can you really go Chinese given the politics of the day?

Do you really think if BD and Myanmar goes hot, that the Chinese won't back Myanmar and cut off supplies to BD?

This is what I mean when I say I fear short sighted ness.

What the hell will Bangladesh do then?


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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.
> 
> 
> 
> It has only been one year or so. No need to be sad. Other countries like India, Indonesia, Myanmar also took times for their fighter deal and other procurement. Hopefully we might hear something good at the first Q of 2019.
> 
> @shourov323 he said the most cost effective one. Didn't indicate anything specifically. In that case J-10 and JF-17 is most cost effective one available.


but both r single engine fighter..nd MRCA tender clearly mentioned about twin engine..


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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> There was J-10A vs Thailand's Gripen C/D during China & Thailand airforce joint exercise in 2017 and 2018. Gripen C/D didn't perform well.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BD’s ultimate policies - be it military, economy or something else - is taken by the folks who owe their bodies and souls to India. They have billions stacked outside in safe environs. Any indications of going anything south, they’re gone in a moment’s notice. The rest is all Fasa-Fiso..

Bottom-line: India takes BD’s ultimate defense decisions

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## The Ronin

shourov323 said:


> but both r single engine fighter..nd MRCA tender clearly mentioned about twin engine..



Oh, yeah forgot that part. But everyone has been talking about Su-30 and Russian didn't even receive any of their Mig-35 yet. Could it be that they are making another G2G deal for single engine. "Most cost effective" doesn't actually go for Russian fighter.



Avicenna said:


> Can you really go Chinese given the politics of the day?
> 
> Do you really think if BD and Myanmar goes hot, that the Chinese won't back Myanmar and cut off supplies to BD?



That's actually another question. The previous topic was about cost.

Besides China have strong position both in BD and Myanmar. They are still second biggest defense supplier of BD. I don't think they will choose any side *in case* war breaks out between us. They will try to stop both party. War is a serious matter. Nobody in govt of any country is stupid enough to launch a full scale war to risk their relation, business, economy and more life no matter how much some foolish, hotheaded netizens cry about it or dangle their military superiority around other country. Specially country like us with stable economy and development for few years. Every country prefer tackling things diplomatically or in other way over giving battle cry.

Another thing is we don't really know what actually goes on between these countries government. Don't what might happen in future project or business but doesn't look like our relation with India, China, Russia and Myanmar has become that bad.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/busine...-trade-remains-healthy-amidst-rohingya-crisis

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## Avicenna

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> BD’s ultimate policies - be it military, economy or something else - is taken by the folks who owe their bodies and souls to India. They have billions stacked outside in safe environs. Any indications of going anything south, they’re gone in a moment’s notice. The rest is all Fasa-Fiso..
> 
> Bottom-line: India takes BD’s ultimate defense decisions



Go away please.

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Go away please.



Say it again...this time with more conviction...

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## Tanveer666

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> BD’s ultimate policies - be it military, economy or something else - is taken by the folks who owe their bodies and souls to India. They have billions stacked outside in safe environs. Any indications of going anything south, they’re gone in a moment’s notice. The rest is all Fasa-Fiso..
> 
> Bottom-line: India takes BD’s ultimate defense decisions


Oy gevalt! The goyim knows! SHUT IT DOWN

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## Nilgiri

Tanveer666 said:


> Oy gevalt! The goyim knows! SHUT IT DOWN



Oy vey! Have a shekel!

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## kenyannoobie

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you started well but now are totally lost.
> 
> What you are looking for would cost BAF at least 3 billion US dollars and needed US clearance at a time well before Rohingya issue.
> 
> BD government had only in the last 2 years managed to implement tax reforms and now tax to GDP ratio is increasing at 0.5% every year.
> 
> BD is not a military state like Pakistan is.



That GDP/tax ratio is critical to the 3rd world! Good for you-you're electrification process is on steroids! Right now in Kenya we're at 75% headed for 100% by 2022 and imo you're the only ones ahead of us in this regard. Again;good for you.

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## Nilgiri

BlueBot said:


> Yes..



Dat delayed response haha...you weren't kidding. Have a happy new year my friend.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Go away please.


Why be averse to pure entertainment? He is serving as the party clown for free.

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## Nilgiri

Al-Ansar said:


> Why be averse to pure entertainment? He is serving as the party clown for free.



THIS x1000. Like why are we in rush to get rid of the fun haha. The crow laugh that will never stop.

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## Avicenna

Any new word or rumors on the multirole fighter purchase?


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Any new word or rumors on the multirole fighter purchase?


No ...

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Any new word or rumors on the multirole fighter purchase?


Let us not encourage BS internet gossip being pasted here. BAL will be blowing up ear drums when they procure fighters.

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## The Ronin

Very rare photo of two BAF FT-5s in the original deco.

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## Avicenna

Election over. MRCA Time!

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## Destranator

I'd like to hear the latest excuses for non-procurement of fighters from the known internet figures.

Even a hasty 2 squadron procurement will not be enough to fill the void created over decades. BAF was already very late to the 4th generation game with MiG-29 procurement back in 1999.

What we need is a Joint Chief's committee to kick BAF's butt on a regular basis besides streamlining the currently joke of a defence procurement system.

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## Avicenna

It's really a matter of shame at this point. 

No excuses.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

So we are waiting for announce the MRCA, Indigenous Frigate, Battle Tank, Medium range air defense system deal. i think Submarine deal will not take place before 2020-21.


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## JohnWick

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> So we are waiting for announce the MRCA, Indigenous Frigate, Battle Tank, Medium range air defense system deal. i think Submarine deal will not take place before 2020-21.


Submarine and tanks in air force thread?

@Bengal Tiger 71 
Lack of an airforce or What?

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## Bengal Tiger 71

its about the procurement announcement of BAF,BN & Army. there is not provide any other forces equipment specification. whats ur prblm Mr. ISI racist.

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## Michael Corleone

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> i think Submarine deal will not take place before 2020-21.


submarines not coming before 2024


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## BanglarBagh

how credible is this news? is BAF really going for 32 MiG-35. can any1 verify?


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## Destranator

BanglarBagh said:


> how credible is this news? is BAF really going for 32 MiG-35. can any1 verify?



Please don't post rumours from the internet here as it leads to people talking out of their intestines, degrading the forum. When a deal is signed, there will be an eventual official press release.

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## BanglarBagh

Al-Ansar said:


> Please don't post rumours from the internet here as it leads to people talking out of their intestines, degrading the forum. When a deal is signed, there will be an eventual official press release.



Wow! why are you getting so angry? I was just asking if this is true and if someone can actually verify this! Can't I even post my queries?


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## Destranator

BanglarBagh said:


> Wow! why are you getting so angry? I was just asking if this is true and if someone can actually verify this! Can't I even post my queries?


Not getting angry, only preventing a thread derailment. Your query cannot be reliably addressed without an official confirmation and so all you will get is one-liners like "deal will be signed/fighters will be inducted by 20XX. Source: My a$$" followed by ridicule by non-Bangladeshis and then a two way trollfest.
The person making the tall claim will never come back and apologise when he is proven wrong. Typical South Asian moral deficiency.


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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> how credible is this news? is BAF really going for 32 MiG-35. can any1 verify?


leaking air out of his rectum already i see.... 
nothing announced officially, i would like to see his source

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## Allah Akbar

Michael Corleone said:


> leaking air out of his rectum already i see....
> nothing announced officially, i would like to see his source


This is his business spreading rumours in YouTube and get money. Don’t take him seriously

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## The Ronin

Close up on the Mikoyan! The other day for the very first time a MiG-29 landed in Cox’s Bazar.

So rest be assured vacationers dont panic if you see fighters in the skies of Cox’s Bazar - Its just our boys playing tag!









BanglarBagh said:


> how credible is this news? is BAF really going for 32 MiG-35. can any1 verify?



DUB is cancer!!!

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## The Ronin

#PSBDExclusive

History has been made!
The other day, for the very first time, a MiG-29 landed at Cox’s Bazar airport. Here are some exclusive shots of the monumental arrival.

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## monitor

Aerial view of the Bangladesh Air Force Academy at Jessore!

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## Tanveer666

monitor said:


> Aerial view of the Bangladesh Air Force Academy at Jessore!


all show and no go!


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## monitor

Tanveer666 said:


> all show and no go!



In future we will have something to showoff rather then just having a magnificent building .


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## Tanveer666

monitor said:


> In future we will have something to showoff rather then just having a magnificent building .


soon, brother.


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## Michael Corleone

where is the runway near the academy?


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## Avicenna

monitor said:


> Aerial view of the Bangladesh Air Force Academy at Jessore!



Nice looking building for sure.

InshAllah, it produces just as nice of a product.


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## Allah Akbar

Avicenna said:


> Any new word or rumors on the multirole fighter purchase?


Bd has successfully singed a deal purchasing two squadrons of f35 lightning from Uk and replacing it’s age old f7bgi in 2040


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## Avicenna

Allah Akbar said:


> Bd has successfully singed a deal purchasing two squadrons of f35 lightning from Uk and replacing it’s age old f7bgi in 2040



You forgot to take ur meds this AM.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> You forgot to take ur meds this AM.



Or may have been smoking something extra special....


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Or may have been smoking something extra special....



Off topic but I’m In LA for the weekend. As a pseudo-foodie are there any good restaurants I need to check out?

Also any cool masjids I need to see in the area?

I went to King Fahad masjid in Culver City for Jummah today.

I really enjoyed it.

@Cookie Monster @Bilal9 or any other so cal folks....

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## Cookie Monster

Avicenna said:


> Off topic but I’m In LA for the weekend. As a pseudo-foodie are there any good restaurants I need to check out?
> 
> Also any cool masjids I need to see in the area?
> 
> I went to King Fahad masjid in Culver City for Jummah today.
> 
> I really enjoyed it.
> 
> @Cookie Monster @Bilal9 or any other so cal folks....


When u say good restaurants...do u have any particular type of cuisine in mind? In my case...I am constantly surrounded by American and/or non Pakistani restaurants. I only get to eat desi food when I go home to my parents...I m either too busy...or when I have time...too lazy to cook desi food for myself.

Sooo the "good" restaurants for me are desi restaurants that make delicious desi foods...since I get to eat non desi food mostly on a daily basis...it doesn't hold that same value to me bcuz its human nature to get bored with something u consume daily.

With that said whenever I go to/come from LAX, I love to stop by Al-Watan restaurant. It's location/ambience isn't much...but the food is delicious.

However I'm not sure if ur query was specifically about desi food. In that case I'll list some restaurants(in LA area...though keep in mind LA is huge) below I've been to in the past on various different occasions.
Angelini Osteria(Italian)
Providence(Sea Food)
Parkway Grill(American)
Baco Mercat(a bit of a mix)
Perch(I forget...)

I've been at these restaurants at one point or another...but mostly always bcuz it was some special occasion with either friends or family. So u may want to look up pricing and whether or not u have to book in advance.

Also if u want something with a scenic view(like for a date or something ) u may wanna head to Malibu. Plenty of restaurants there with a beach view.

As for Masjids...yeah that's the only cool masjid I guess u can say. There are other Masjids here but they aren't like something u see in Pakistan or other Muslim countries. Most are just leased/rented buildings that u won't even know are Masjids until u go inside. The whole dome with minarets kinds of Masjids are rare.

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## Avicenna

Cookie Monster said:


> When u say good restaurants...do u have any particular type of cuisine in mind? In my case...I am constantly surrounded by American and/or non Pakistani restaurants. I only get to eat desi food when I go home to my parents...I m either too busy...or when I have time...too lazy to cook desi food for myself.
> 
> Sooo the "good" restaurants for me are desi restaurants that make delicious desi foods...since I get to eat non desi food mostly on a daily basis...it doesn't hold that same value to me bcuz its human nature to get bored with something u consume daily.
> 
> With that said whenever I go to/come from LAX, I love to stop by Al-Watan restaurant. It's location/ambience isn't much...but the food is delicious.
> 
> However I'm not sure if ur query was specifically about desi food. In that case I'll list some restaurants(in LA area...though keep in mind LA is huge) below I've been to in the past on various different occasions.
> Angelini Osteria(Italian)
> Providence(Sea Food)
> Parkway Grill(American)
> Baco Mercat(a bit of a mix)
> Perch(I forget...)
> 
> I've been at these restaurants at one point or another...but mostly always bcuz it was some special occasion with either friends or family. So u may want to look up pricing and whether or not u have to book in advance.
> 
> Also if u want something with a scenic view(like for a date or something ) u may wanna head to Malibu. Plenty of restaurants there with a beach view.
> 
> As for Masjids...yeah that's the only cool masjid I guess u can say. There are other Masjids here but they aren't like something u see in Pakistan or other Muslim countries. Most are just leased/rented buildings that u won't even know are Masjids until u go inside. The whole dome with minarets kinds of Masjids are rare.



Thanks for the suggestions. I got here Thursday night. So far went to Parks Korean BBQ, EuroAsia (Russian), the In and Out at LAX, and salt and straw (ice cream). 

I love all foods. Wanna try sushi, Thai and kabobs, either Persian, Armenian or Arab.

Also appreciate desi suggestions.

I’m staying at the hotels near LAX till Monday.

No dates.....wife is at home and I had some work here and brought my dad.

Tomorrow is chill day just gonna drive around to Venice, Santa Monica, probably up to Malibu.

This room is so cool, it’s 324AM and I’m looking at LAX from my room watching planes take off.

An aviation lovers dream!


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## UKBengali

Please can we cut out the off-topic posts please?

There is a messaging function available for this kind of thing.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Off topic but I’m In LA for the weekend. As a pseudo-foodie are there any good restaurants I need to check out?
> 
> Also any cool masjids I need to see in the area?
> 
> I went to King Fahad masjid in Culver City for Jummah today.
> 
> I really enjoyed it.
> 
> @Cookie Monster @Bilal9 or any other so cal folks....


check out buzzfeed's youtube channel, they must have recommendations for places to eat at in LA

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Please can we cut out the off-topic posts please?
> 
> There is a messaging function available for this kind of thing.



Yea guilty as charged. Apologies.

Back to the BAF.

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force has installed new VHF (Very High Frequency) antenna in F-7BGI locally. The antenna is visible before the tail fin (yellow colored).

Photos: Taz Joardar


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Off topic but I’m In LA for the weekend. As a pseudo-foodie are there any good restaurants I need to check out?
> 
> Also any cool masjids I need to see in the area?
> 
> I went to King Fahad masjid in Culver City for Jummah today.
> 
> I really enjoyed it.
> 
> @Cookie Monster @Bilal9 or any other so cal folks....



So sorry bud - hadn't seen this earlier. I'm quite busy bud check out this list. The LA culinary adventures thing nowadays is Korean Fusion Cuisine as well as Mexican. There are tons of joints but these should be satisfactory.

Check these places out. They represent LA's gastronomic scene very well.

https://www.mysuitcasejourneys.com/best-places-to-eat-in-la/

https://www.thrillist.com/eat/los-angeles/the-50-best-things-to-eat-in-la-iconic-foods-bucket-list#

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force has installed new VHF (Very High Frequency) antenna in F-7BGI locally. The antenna is visible before the tail fin (yellow colored).
> 
> Photos: Taz Joardar


we'll be the last nation on earth operating these.. lmao... by then it would be what... 50? 70 yo design? xD


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## Destranator

Interesting that since post #5670 on page 378, Beruni has stopped posting all together. Maybe I revealed way too much about him. 

Miss his expert commentary on how Burma is the next NATO member.
@Atlas @Mage @The Ronin

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## Nilgiri

Al-Ansar said:


> Miss his expert commentary on how Burma is the next NATO member.



Where was that lol?


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## Destranator

Nilgiri said:


> Where was that lol?


I was being hyperbolic..lol. His whole schtick was NATO countries are dying to sell their weapons to Burma at a time when they have imposed heavy sanctions.

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## Avicenna

Any news on MRCA?

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## Bengal Tiger 71

why BAF delay to make a deal, really frustrated matter. AL govt. is now 11 year running in power but no fighter jet bought without f7. otherhand they always blammed bnp for everything.


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## ghost250

https://www.asiapacificdefensejourn...wmhdkkUy_liyLvFRZRVfR9Jyhm2aEneEIyhvUj0YgkgJc

In a bid to gain its first export market for the type, China has been reported to be seriously offering their Chengdu J-10C multi-role fighter aircraft to both Laos and Bangladesh, which are cheaper options compared to Russian fighters like the MiG-35 and Su-27/30 family, or Western fighters from Europe or the US.

It is expected that both countries would only order an equivalent of 1 or 2 squadrons each, based on indicated requirements and budget allowances.

It was originally believed that Laos will be using its newly acquired Yakolev Yak-130 armed advanced trainers from Russia as its main combat aircraft, but information coming from the Lao People's Liberation Army Air Force (LPLAAF) indicated that they are looking for a more advanced fighter aircraft, and that the Yak-130 will be used to help train and transition its pilots to more advanced fighters.

Bangladesh currently operate the Yak-130 as well for light ground attack and training requirements.

The Chengdu J-10 is currently in use only by the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) and Navy (PLAN), with the updated J-10C variant still looking for its first customer. Compared to the J-10A and J-10B, the current J-10C is equipped with an AESA fire control radar with improved range,, and can be equipped with the PL-10 IR-guided short range air-to-air missile, and the PL-15 long range air-to-air missile.

Laos is located in between Thailand in the west, Vietnam in the east, China in its north and Cambodia south of its borders. While it does not see any threat from its neighbors, any future Laotian fighter aircraft will size-up with the Royal Thai Air Force's (RTAF) Lockheed Martin F-16A/B Fighting Falcons and Saab JAS-39C/D Gripens, and with Vietnam People's Air Force (VPAF) Sukhoi Su-27P/SK and Su-30MK2V fighters.

Meanwhile, Bangladesh faces its regional rival Myanmar, with both countries improving their air forces. And while the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) has recently ordered the *Sukhoi Su-30*  from Russia, it may be needing a smaller and cheaper fighter in its fighter mix.

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## LKJ86

shourov323 said:


> In a bid to gain its first export market for the type, China has been reported to be seriously offering their Chengdu J-10C multi-role fighter aircraft to both Laos and Bangladesh, which are cheaper options compared to Russian fighters like the MiG-35 and Su-27/30 family, or Western fighters from Europe or the US.


In fact, J-10C is also very expensive.


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## The Ronin

*China likely to export its J-10C fighter jets to Bangladesh and Laos*

China is likely to export its *J-10*C aircraft to Pakistan, as we already know, but two countries - Bangladesh and Laos - could acquire it before Pakistan. Both have indeed shown interest in the latest version of the J-10 fighters and both could sign before the Pakistani government.

Pakistan has already shown its interest in the purchase of the latest *J-10*C aircraft, being the first country to manifest its interest in the acquisition of an exported version of this aircraft. Nevertheless, Pakistan has not yet decided to sign any official contract with China.

Two countries could pass Pakistan on the purchase of these jets. Laos and Bangladesh are indeed said to be interested in such an acquisition, building up a sole international market for these Chinese fighter aircraft. If both countries ended to sign contracts for the acquisition of the J-10C, it would mean an export of an expected maximum of 24 aircraft (2 squadrons) for each of them. This information, if confirmed by both governments, may increase the interest of other countries for this product, leading to new international orders for China.

As far as it concerns Laos, the Royal Lao Air Force remains outdated, mainly using MiG-21 fighters, *F-16* fighters and also *JAS 39 Gripen* fighter jets. Therefore, in order to reduce the gap between its forces and the Vietnamese and Thai ones. Regarding Bangladesh, to counter the 36 recently purchased *Rafale *fighters from India (expected to be deployed at the India's borders with Pakistan and Bangladesh), the country is in need of such 4th-generation aircraft (with equal performance to the Rafale).

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...8fC8bzpZAXwLe8CL39Mqm5LDzvTR-7q1rL-oyc9Fqo4ok

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## Species

The Ronin said:


> *China likely to export its J-10C fighter jets to Bangladesh and Laos*
> 
> China is likely to export its *J-10*C aircraft to Pakistan, as we already know, but two countries - Bangladesh and Laos - could acquire it before Pakistan. Both have indeed shown interest in the latest version of the J-10 fighters and both could sign before the Pakistani government.
> 
> Pakistan has already shown its interest in the purchase of the latest *J-10*C aircraft, being the first country to manifest its interest in the acquisition of an exported version of this aircraft. Nevertheless, Pakistan has not yet decided to sign any official contract with China.
> 
> Two countries could pass Pakistan on the purchase of these jets. Laos and Bangladesh are indeed said to be interested in such an acquisition, building up a sole international market for these Chinese fighter aircraft. If both countries ended to sign contracts for the acquisition of the J-10C, it would mean an export of an expected maximum of 24 aircraft (2 squadrons) for each of them. This information, if confirmed by both governments, may increase the interest of other countries for this product, leading to new international orders for China.
> 
> As far as it concerns Laos, the Royal Lao Air Force remains outdated, mainly using MiG-21 fighters, *F-16* fighters and also *JAS 39 Gripen* fighter jets. Therefore, in order to reduce the gap between its forces and the Vietnamese and Thai ones. Regarding Bangladesh, to counter the 36 recently purchased *Rafale *fighters from India (expected to be deployed at the India's borders with Pakistan and Bangladesh), the country is in need of such 4th-generation aircraft (with equal performance to the Rafale).
> 
> https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...8fC8bzpZAXwLe8CL39Mqm5LDzvTR-7q1rL-oyc9Fqo4ok



Air Recognition is a credible source.


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## Destranator

Species said:


> Air Recognition is a credible source.


The article is simply hot air with no specifics. Stating the obvious that J-10 is a sensible option for BAF. Chengdu can not shove J-10s down BAF's throat if BAF keep twiddling their thumbs. Even the writer admits that there is no evidence of any order being placed.

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## Nilgiri

Al-Ansar said:


> The article is simply hot air with no specifics. Stating the obvious that J-10 is a sensible option for BAF. Chengdu can not shove J-10s down BAF's throat if BAF keep twiddling their thumbs. Even the writer admits that there is no evidence of any order being placed.



Is BD still looking at Mig 35 too?


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## Destranator

Nilgiri said:


> Is BD still looking at Mig 35 too?



There is no official word but MiG-35 should be on the table. It is time for BAF to stop "looking" and start acting. 

Since their mutiny during the Japanese Red Army hijack incident and the following massacre by Zia, BAF has become a spineless organisation.

Unlike BA and BN, they are not good at arm-twisting the cabinet and bureaucrats when it comes to procurement.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> There is no official word but MiG-35 should be on the table. It is time for BAF to stop "looking" and start acting.
> 
> Since their mutiny during the Japanese Red Army hijack incident and the following massacre by Zia, BAF has become a spineless organisation.
> 
> Unlike BA and BN, they are not good at arm-twisting the cabinet and bureaucrats when it comes to procurement.



Not really.
BAF managed to persuade AL in 1999 to place an order for 16+16 Mug-29s.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Not really.
> BAF managed to persuade AL in 1999 to place an order for 16+16 Mug-29s.



And?? For comparision, look up the year in which IAF commissioned MiG-29s.

FYI, there is no evidence of BAF ordering 32 MiGs - another piece of hoax propagated by you know who.

8+8 were ordered. Come BNP to power in 2001 and they violated the agreement by refusing to pay for the second lot of 8.

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## Allah Akbar

Species said:


> Air Recognition is a credible source.


Youtube


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## Bilal9

Guys - is it realistic that you can counter Rafales with J-10s? Even those equipped with AESA radar and PL-15s (equipped with whatever advanced sensor)?

@Two what is the PLAAF view and general consensus in China please? Thanks for your opinion...


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## SBUS-CXK

Bilal9 said:


> Guys - is it realistic that you can counter Rafales with J-10s? Even those equipped with AESA radar and PL-15s (equipped with whatever advanced sensor)?
> 
> @Two what is the PLAAF view and general consensus in China please? Thanks for your opinion...


The J-10A is sufficient to support any high-intensity combat.
It's all the world's top fighters, and there's not much difference in technology. More important is the pilots fighting skills.

https://www.aviationcv.com/aviation-blog/2017/top-10-fighter-jets-world-2017

And aviation materials and processing are very important. As we all know, there are some China small Private Companies（as Bright Laser Technologies）, in fact it has the world's leading technology.

*Airbus partners with China Aviation Materials*








On November 21, Yang Xiaoming, general manager of Chinese aviation company China Aviation Materials (CAAC), signed a deal, "Airbus, China Aviation Equipment Group, Hongyuan Company's Supply Agreement on Aviation Forge Parts (Amendment 4)", with Airbus and metal AM company Bright Laser Technologies. This is a significant supply agreement for 3D printed aviation parts between Airbus, China Aviation Equipment Group, and Bright Laser Technologies.

The official signing of this 3D printing agreements shows the success already achieved by China Aviation Materials' in exploring new technologies and new products, and its growth in the field of industrial cooperation over many years. The next step for China Aviation Materials will be to work closely with Bright Laser Technologies to promote the use of 3D printing technology on Airbus’ commercial aircraft. BLT, which was founded back in 1990, has become the country’s largest supplier of additively manufactured metal parts in the wake of founder Professor Huang Wei-dong first launcing research into metal additive manufacturing in 1995.

https://www.3ders.org/articles/2017...trucks-saint-gobain-rocket-crafters-riva.html

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## ziaulislam

Bd should be focusing on economy they don't need air force in presence of india..rightly they are doing so...

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## UKBengali

ziaulislam said:


> Bd should be focusing on economy they don't need air force in presence of india..rightly they are doing so...




Where did you get this idea from?

All 3 branches of the military are being modernised as per "Forces Goal 2030". Only BAF seems to be lacking at this moment.

A country that will near 200 million people by 2030 and a GDP in excess of 1 trillion US dollars definitely needs a strong military to safeguard it's interests.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Guys - is it realistic that you can counter Rafales with J-10s? Even those equipped with AESA radar and PL-15s (equipped with whatever advanced sensor)?
> 
> @Two what is the PLAAF view and general consensus in China please? Thanks for your opinion...


HELL TO THE NO



Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 536195
> View attachment 536196
> 
> 
> Your army needs humanity before weapons. Look at the photos above.


Says the Buddhist XD


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## Species

We might need some clean up here.
@Dubious @Slav Defence

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## Dubious

Species said:


> We might need some clean up here.
> @Dubious @Slav Defence


I tried a bit I think better people would be @Oscar and @Irfan Baloch

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## SBUS-CXK

Michael Corleone said:


> HELL TO THE NO
> 
> 
> Says the Buddhist XD


Usually, we compare Chinese airplanes with US airplanes.


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## Michael Corleone

Two said:


> Usually, we compare Chinese airplanes with US airplanes.


well, compared to something like the f-16 j-10c matches it or exceed it in certain areas.... other than that, european/ other US airrcrafts are far superior than chinese or russian systems

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> well, compared to something like the f-16 j-10c matches it or exceed it in certain areas.... other than that, european/ other US airrcrafts are far superior than chinese or russian systems



I do not think that the Western planes are "far superior" to the J-10C. The J-10C has a lot of tech that was developed for J-20 incorporated into it. Western planes are better for sure but probably not by much.


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## The Ronin

Maybe for the first time we saw BAF MIG-29SE flying with fuel tanks 

Maybe after a decades.... 

PC- M Shahriar Sonet

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## LKJ86

Michael Corleone said:


> well, compared to something like the f-16 j-10c matches it or exceed it in certain areas.... other than that, european/ other US airrcrafts are far superior than chinese or russian systems


J-10 has little chances to train with European or USA fighter aircrafts.
But in 2017, J-10A completely defeated JAS-39C/D during China-Thailand airforce joint exercise.


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Maybe for the first time we saw BAF MIG-29SE flying with fuel tanks
> 
> Maybe after a decades....
> 
> PC- M Shahriar Sonet


i literally don't get it, what's the point of flying an offensive weapon when you're going to load all it's hardpoint with refuel tanks.... seems counterintuitive



LKJ86 said:


> J-10 has little chances to train with European or USA fighter aircrafts.
> But in 2017, J-10A completely defeated JAS-39C/D during China-Thailand airforce joint exercise.


could also be the result of a poorly trained thai pilots.... or them concealing it's ability...


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## LKJ86

Michael Corleone said:


> could also be the result of a poorly trained thai pilots.... or them concealing it's ability...


During China-Thailand airforce joint exercise in 2015, JAS-39C/D performed better than Su-27SK. And two years later (2017), PLAAF brought J-10A to Thailand for the first time, and defeated JAS-39C/D.


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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Maybe for the first time we saw BAF MIG-29SE flying with fuel tanks
> 
> Maybe after a decades....
> 
> PC- M Shahriar Sonet



I wonder what this means?


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## SBUS-CXK

Michael Corleone said:


> well, compared to something like the f-16 j-10c matches it or exceed it in certain areas.... other than that, european/ other US airrcrafts are far superior than chinese or russian systems


Ah, you probably don't know who J-10A's imaginary enemy is. I tell you. The enemy of J-10A is Taiwan F-16A/B. So Taiwan has always sought F-16C/D.... Until J-10B/C appeared. Taiwan began to calm down.

I really don't think... Bengalis know J-10 and F-16 better than Taiwanese. 

oh btw. Taiwan also has European fighters. But they may never have thought of using European fighters against the J-10A.



Michael Corleone said:


> could also be the result of a poorly trained thai pilots.... or them concealing it's ability...


Ah. That's interesting. J-10A defeated the JAS-39C/D because the Thai pilots did not have good training??? Follow your logic: Excellent pilots can use the J-10A to defeat your "far superior" Western fighters. think about it. If these excellent pilots are driving J-31. Even J-20... What happened?

@LKJ86 @UKBengali

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## Avicenna

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/199383/china-says-laos,-bangladesh-may-order-j_10c-fighters.html

This has been posted before but this is from another source.

A Sole International Market for China's J-10 Fighter Jets is Taking Shape
(Source: China Military Online; issued Jan 24, 2019)



In what seems a clear nudge to Pakistan, China’s People’ Liberation Army says that both Laos and Bangladesh have officially shown interest in the latest version of its J-10C fighter, and cautioned that both could sign orders before Pakistan. (PLA photo)

When it comes to China’s exporting of high-end military equipment, the exporting of J-10 fighter jets to Pakistan is an inevitable topic.

Although Pakistan already offered an olive branch to China’s J-10 fighter jets and its Chief of Army Staff Qamar Javed Bajwa even personally mounted on a J-10C during the “Shaheen-VII” China-Pakistan joint air exercise at the end of 2018, it remains hard for the country to make up its mind to sign the official contract to purchase J-10 aircraft.

It is recently reported that two other countries are likely to purchase China’s J-10 fighter jets before Pakistan. A sole international market for China’sJ-10 fighter jets is taking shape.

Laos is one of the aforesaid two countries. On January 14th, the Royal Lao Air Force completed a test flight of the Yakovlev Yak-130 advanced jet trainer imported from Russia. In the past, a dominant view was that Laos would make the Yakovlev Yak-130 the main fighter jets in its air force.

However, Laos’ domestic media recently conjectured that importing the Yakovlev Yak-130 was just a move to prepare for the purchase of new main fighter jets, which is likely to be China’s J-10C. Moreover, Laos' netizens posted many photoshopped images of J-10C fighter jets in the digital painting of the Royal Lao Air Force. Upon analyzing the demand of the Royal Lao Air Force, it isn’t totally a rumor that Laos will purchase J-10 fighter jets.

From both historical and geographical perspectives, Laos is a country lacking a sense of security. It borders comparatively powerful Thailand in the west and ambitious Vietnam in the east. The Royal Thai Air Force has long been equipped with US F-16 fighter jets and Swedish JAS 39 Gripen fighter jets. The Vietnamese Air Force is equipped with Su-27 and Su-30 fighter jets from Russia and is reported to purchase the latest Su-57 fighter jets.

However, the main fighter jets of the Royal Lao Air Force remain the outdated MiG-21 fighters. Facing air threat in both west and east directions, Laos is in urgent need to introduce the advanced 4th-generation fighter jets to reinforce its air force. Indeed, China’s J-10 is the best choice due to its reliable performance and stable supply.

The other country is Bangladesh. In 2018, the Bangladeshi Air Force sent a delegation to conduct a field survey of the performance of the J-10C. Then, Bangladesh became the first country to express the intention to purchase the aircraft. Of all international clients of Chinese military equipment, Bangladesh is an important but easily neglected country.

In 2018, the Bangladeshi Army announced to cancel the contract of purchasing Russia’s T-72B3 tanks, but imported 300 heavily upgraded Type 59 tanks from China. the Bangladeshi Navy imported in 2018 two Type 053 H3 frigates from China to establish a main fleet, including five Chinese-made frigates as backbone vessels.

The Bangladeshi Air Force has realistic demand for J-10 fighters. The first batch of 36 Rafale fighter jets that India purchased will form two squadrons to be deployed near India’s borders with Pakistan and Bangladesh, respectively.

Compared with that of Pakistan, the Bangladeshi Air Force is comparatively weak and lacks strong support from any third country. Facing the abruptly mounting pressure from the Indian Air Force, Bangladesh finds it necessary to commission the 4th-generation fighter jets with equal performance to the Rafale.

Considering the long-standing cooperation in arms between China and Bangladesh and the maturity and outstanding performance of the J-10 series, it is necessary for Bangladesh to choose the J-10C—the most advanced type of the J-10 series—to reinforce its air force.

Even if Laos and Bangladesh sign contracts to purchase China's J-10 fighter jets, their purchased volumes will be enough to equip only 1-2 squadrons (namely, 12-24 units of aircraft) considering the limited sizes of their air forces.

Moreover, it is unlikely for the two countries to build assembly lines or major overhauling facilities. Nevertheless, the export orders for J-10 fighter jets from the two countries are still very significant, which are worth seizing for China through certain compromises over price and technology.

Both Laos and Bangladesh are weaker than their neighboring countries in terms of air force. The fighters equipped by their rivals are not only more advanced, but also major competitors for the J-10 in the international arms market. Therefore, the performance of the J-10 in the two countries will be crucial for the Chinese fighter jets to expand exports to foreign countries including Pakistan.

From the perspective of the overall development of the international warplane market, the 4th-generation aircraft remains the most popular before the 5th-generation stealth fighters are shelved.

Europe’s Typhoon and Rafale fighters are notorious for their extremely high prices and maintenance costs (with a unit price of nearly US$100 million).Russian fighters lag behind in performance, and US fighter jets face high export barriers.

Although those early aircraft models have grabbed large volumes of orders, they are considered “would-be foes” by latecomers, which makes it hard for them to win new clients. In this context, the J-10C fighter jets, which was born in a time when China’s overall jet fighter R&D capacity sees exponential growth, emits unimaginable attraction and even becomes the only choice for a big proportion of customers in the international market.

Against the backdrop of counter-terrorism worldwide, the US and Europe loosened restrictions on arms export, and China’s fighter jets had yet to be mature in performance. But now the situation has changed. The contradiction between emerging demand and traditional supply in the international military aircraft market is becoming increasingly prominent, and the J-10 series has gradually become a jet fighter with global competitiveness after continuous improvements.

In the future, if China's J-10 can be exported to Laos, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, it will be only a matter of time for the fighter to win more international orders

-ends-

On second look, its the same article. Oh well.


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## Michael Corleone

LKJ86 said:


> JAS-39C/D performed better than Su-27SK.


well c'mon you're comparing an analog cockpit to a fully digitized one



The Ronin said:


> Ummmmmm there's still four hard points left. Sooooooo what are you trying point here? It's not like we are at war or something.


I mean the air force chief says these planes are up daily on patrol missions... considering that I would expect the non-trainer versions to at least carry two missiles on their patrols... but strangely they rarely if ever do that.



Two said:


> Ah, you probably don't know who J-10A's imaginary enemy is. I tell you. The enemy of J-10A is Taiwan F-16A/B. So Taiwan has always sought F-16C/D.... Until J-10B/C appeared. Taiwan began to calm down.
> 
> I really don't think... Bengalis know J-10 and F-16 better than Taiwanese.
> 
> oh btw. Taiwan also has European fighters. But they may never have thought of using European fighters against the J-10A.


frankly speaking, taiwan can't hope to match china in military be in technologically or quantitatively... so even if taiwan soughts f-15s, in a prolonged conflict they will not win... judging by the size size of the two economy, their close proximity etc



Two said:


> Ah. That's interesting. J-10A defeated the JAS-39C/D because the Thai pilots did not have good training??? Follow your logic: Excellent pilots can use the J-10A to defeat your "far superior" Western fighters. think about it. If these excellent pilots are driving J-31. Even J-20... What happened?


truth be told I would like to see some exercises against the westerners or even Russians... I'm not bashing on the Thai military, what I'm saying is that even the US lost air exercises against India, heck even the RAF did... but this might be just due to them concealing their abilities



Avicenna said:


> In 2018, the Bangladeshi Army announced to cancel the contract of purchasing Russia’s T-72B3 tanks, but imported 300 heavily upgraded Type 59 tanks from China. the Bangladeshi Navy imported in 2018 two Type 053 H3 frigates from China to establish a main fleet, including five Chinese-made frigates as backbone vessels.


bogus article hence proved, there was no t-72b3 tanks contract at all... the chinese offered free barebones t59s provided bangladesh will buy upgrade kits from them... i believe an upgrade kit costs 1 million... so pretty good beater tanks for 300mil which is a good deal as current tank techs have reached their obsolescence

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## SBUS-CXK

Michael Corleone said:


> frankly speaking, taiwan can't hope to match china in military be in technologically or quantitatively... so even if taiwan soughts f-15s, in a prolonged conflict they will not win... judging by the size size of the two economy, their close proximity etc
> 
> 
> truth be told I would like to see some exercises against the westerners or even Russians... I'm not bashing on the Thai military, what I'm saying is that even the US lost air exercises against India, heck even the RAF did... but this might be just due to them concealing their abilities.


Any country will concealing their abilities. of course. China has done the same.
According to our tradition, we have developed this strategy very early. This is a Chinese culture. ——韬光养晦 “hide one's capabilities and bide one's time” - Translation of the Pentagon. I was shocked. There are similar cultures in foreign countries??? 

Oh, how powerful. US, Russia, Europe, India, probably Bangladesh etc "hide one's capabilities and bide one's time".

I'm very scared now. F-15 and F-16 are far ahead of J-10. Even they are still “hide one's capabilities and bide one's time”. Can be determined. China has lost.

@Michael Corleone Bro, are you from SFAC?


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> I wonder what this means?



It means we are training for longer range missions. How long - is left up to your imaginations.

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## Bengal Tiger 71

As per military equipment offer from USA, primarily BD should go for F16 Block 70/72 1 sqd, before 2000 AL govt. wanted to buy that now they will not lose this chance to having US origin fighter.


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## Michael Corleone

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> As per military equipment offer from USA, primarily BD should go for F16 Block 70/72 1 sqd, before 2000 AL govt. wanted to buy that now they will not lose this chance to having US origin fighter.


let's see, some people have been saying those cost 220mil with everything per unit... but it seems to steep when f35 comes at about 100mil per pop



Two said:


> @Michael Corleone Bro, are you from SFAC?


what's that?


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## SBUS-CXK

Michael Corleone said:


> let's see, some people have been saying those cost 220mil with everything per unit... but it seems to steep when f35 comes at about 100mil per pop
> 
> 
> what's that?


SFAC - Strategic Fooyou Agency of China.
the main work of SFAC members is almost the same as yours.


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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force has already established their own Flight Simulation Centre(FSC) for PT-6 basic trainer in the BAF Base Matiur Rahman, Jessore. They have already purchased two unit of BPR PT-6/VC Aircraft Flight Simulator and also ordered one more from Austria (the tender was in DGDP website for a loooong time). Here you can see some exclusive 3D pictures of BAF Flight Simulation Centre and BPR PT-6/VC Aircraft Flight Simulator with the description. With over 60 PT-6 in service, the most beloved and iconic aircraft of BAF will stay in service for another 12 years.






























BAF has recently received aerodynamics teaching equipments from TecQuipment, a UK based company. These equipment will be used for researching subsonic and supersonic wind-tunnel. BAF already established wind tunnel in Jessore Air Base with the assistance of the same company.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Air Force has already established their own Flight Simulation Centre(FSC) for PT-6 basic trainer in the BAF Base Matiur Rahman, Jessore. They have already purchased two unit of BPR PT-6/VC Aircraft Flight Simulator and also ordered one more from Austria (the tender was in DGDP website for a loooong time). Here you can see some exclusive 3D pictures of BAF Flight Simulation Centre and BPR PT-6/VC Aircraft Flight Simulator with the description. With over 60 PT-6 in service, the most beloved and iconic aircraft of BAF will stay in service for another 12 years.
> 
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> 
> BAF has recently received aerodynamics teaching equipments from TecQuipment, a UK based company. These equipment will be used for researching subsonic and supersonic wind-tunnel. BAF already established wind tunnel in Jessore Air Base with the assistance of the same company.


they must be taking the piss out of themselves... every year either more trainers or radars and simulators... no fucking fighters.... :/

i wonder what type of aircraft are they trying to build... since establishing wind tunnels are like some of the first step towards research into aircraft manufacturing...


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> they must be taking the piss out of themselves... every year either more trainers or radars and simulators... no fucking fighters.... :/
> 
> i wonder what type of aircraft are they trying to build... since establishing wind tunnels are like some of the first step towards research into aircraft manufacturing...



Let us wait. 

If no fighters are ordered this year, then BAF is dead for sure.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> they must be taking the piss out of themselves... every year either more trainers or radars and simulators... no fucking fighters.... :/
> 
> i wonder what type of aircraft are they trying to build... since establishing wind tunnels are like some of the first step towards research into aircraft manufacturing...



Hopefully its the BAF being self aware of the enormity of the training deficit.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Let us wait.
> 
> If no fighters are ordered this year, then BAF is dead for sure.


You better host the funeral here in that unfortunate circumstance, should it happen
i'll be present :/


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> they must be taking the piss out of themselves... every year either more trainers or radars and simulators... no fucking fighters.... :/
> 
> i wonder what type of aircraft are they trying to build... since establishing wind tunnels are like some of the first step towards research into aircraft manufacturing...




Fighters must be ordered as a priority but this is a good move. We need to get into the game and develop own capacity..

First step develop a trainer jet....good move...

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> First step develop a trainer jet....good move...


i feel like the first aircrafts that may come out of this will still be a TOT based aircraft, judgin by lack of R&D and the amount of catchup to do...


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> i feel like the first aircrafts that may come out of this will still be a TOT based aircraft, judgin by lack of R&D and the amount of catchup to do...



We do not have a technical base. TOT is the only way to leapfrog... in this respect i think we need to partner up and the only credible partners are the chinese.

I read on the forum that the chinese offered their J7 mothballed production line to BD. Whilst i know it made no sense to build j7s now....i cannot help thinking it was a lost opportunity.... we would have gotten valuable knowhow in technology.

We need to start somehow.... i say buy the j10s in numbers and get tot. It would be a quantum leap for BAF.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> We do not have a technical base. TOT is the only way to leapfrog... in this respect i think we need to partner up and the only credible partners are the chinese.
> 
> I read on the forum that the chinese offered their J7 mothballed production line to BD. Whilst i know it made no sense to build j7s now....i can help thinking it was a lost opportunity.... we would have gotten valuable knowhow in technology.
> 
> We need to start somehow.... i say buy the j10s in numbers and get tot. It would be a quantum leap for BAF.



J7 technology was already old (1962 vintage) when they started producing them in numbers in China (late 70's, 80's) - because it was based on the Soviet MiG-21 F13 model (one of the very first early variants).






Since the F13, there has been significant changes in the subsequent versions, PF, PFM, R, SPS, M, MF, Bis and finally culminating with the Bison with glass cockpit, which the Indians operate.

During early 70's we operated the MF type, which was far more advanced than the F13 aerodynamically, but also heavier and more expensive. It used to make up the bulk of the IAF fighter inventory until they started falling out of the sky, at which point IAF upgraded some to the Bison version, which looks just like an MF version, except far better sensors/electronics, bubble canopy, spine tanks and wing fillets.






The Chinese tried to mass produce the MF version, but they deemed it too expensive to make compared to their J7 model. One can honestly say that they milked the lightweight J7 design for all its worth, culminating in a version with a proper glass cockpit, a better radar worthy of semi-BVR launches and even a double delta wing (ours). Well done!






They got rid of the J7 line the same reason why countries like Pakistan got rid of their J7's, they are unbelievably outdated against even some basic fighters, like say the Rafale or the Gripen. Heck even Tornados or EFA would give that thing a run for its money. But J10 will be another story.

But us getting the J7/F7 production line would've done scarce little other than basic experience on bolting together planes and testing them, like some other countries are doing. Not worth it. If we have to do THAT, why not do it with a far more current design and way better capability?

Pakistan's JF17 design was tailormade for that country to replace their J7s/F7s. India didn't succeed so well replacing their MiG-21MF's with their Tejas LCA, and had to shell out too much to get Rafales at the end.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> J7 technology was already old (1962 vintage) when they started producing them in numbers in China (late 70's, 80's) - because it was based on the Soviet MiG-21 F13 model (one of the very first early variants).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the F13, there has been significant changes in the subsequent versions, PF, PFM, R, SPS, M, MF, Bis and finally culminating with the Bison with glass cockpit, which the Indians operate.
> 
> During early 70's we operated the MF type, which was far more advanced than the F13 aerodynamically, but also heavier and more expensive. It used to make up the bulk of the IAF fighter inventory until they started falling out of the sky, at which point IAF upgraded some to the Bison version, which looks just like an MF version, except far better sensors/electronics, bubble canopy, spine tanks and wing fillets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese tried to mass produce the MF version, but they deemed it too expensive to make compared to their J7 model. One can honestly say that they milked the lightweight J7 design for all its worth, culminating in a version with a proper glass cockpit, a better radar worthy of semi-BVR launches and even a double delta wing (ours). Well done!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They got rid of the J7 line the same reason why countries like Pakistan got rid of their J7's, they are unbelievably outdated against even some basic fighters, like say the Rafale or the Gripen. Heck even Tornados or EFA would give that thing a run for its money. But J10 will be another story.
> 
> But us getting the J7/F7 production line would've done scarce little other than basic experience on bolting together planes and testing them, like some other countries are doing. Not worth it. If we have to do THAT, why not do it with a far more current design and way better capability?
> 
> Pakistan's JF17 design was tailormade for that country to replace their J7s/F7s. India didn't succeed so well replacing their MiG-21MF's with their Tejas LCA, and had to shell out too much to get Rafales at the end.


tbh this design is decent, even for current times... current jets aren't fast by much compared to this, ceiling height is also comparable and the payloads is comparable to some light fighters... where it falls short is it's basic design... the nost mounted air intake leaves little to no room for good radar... the streamlining leaves less room for fuel, cockpit avionics and payload... taking all these into account a jf-17 is not bad for what it's worth... a j-10c or a mig 35 production line will go a long way for bd... well into the 50s, when hopefully an indigenous fighter jet could be created

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> tbh this design is decent, even for current times... current jets aren't fast by much compared to this, ceiling height is also comparable and the payloads is comparable to some light fighters... where it falls short is it's basic design... the nost mounted air intake leaves little to no room for good radar... the streamlining leaves less room for fuel, cockpit avionics and payload... taking all these into account a jf-17 is not bad for what it's worth... a j-10c or a mig 35 production line will go a long way for bd... well into the 50s, when hopefully an indigenous fighter jet could be created



Well you have made very good points.

Fast is one thing, maneuverable is even better (corrected with the double-delta or cranked delta wings on the latest J7 variants supplied to us), and the Chinese WP-13/14 power-plant has become quite reliable and has boasted increased MTBF over the years - but these days, as even basic fighters have BVR (our fighter if created locally should have it), sensors and radar (meaning where to place them) becomes more critical. Granted sensors and radars themselves are getting smaller and smaller but even current 'cheap' radars like the Italian Grifo (or the Chinese KLJ-7 developed from the Russian Phazotron radars as used in the JF17) that some basic fighters use, has a minimum size. One cannot get away from it. AESA in the later variants is better, negating the need for mechanical steering. Grifo comes in many sizes and variants.












https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...galileo-improves-grifo-radar-new-applications

So you have to place the radar on the nose and have to move the engine intakes to the side (taking care of boundary control layer issues) and you end up with the Guizhou JL-9 (or FTC-2000 as it is called nowadays).

This line is still open and still being produced albeit in very small numbers, as I understand it. But compared to the F7 (J7) there may be aerodynamic issues because it is not as 'clean' a design. As you can see, intake backward, It is the same F7 we use. But now you have space to put the radar on the nose.

The PLANAF is planning to use it as a Carrier based trainer. They are still milking the J7 design!!

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## LKJ86

Bilal9 said:


> The PLANAF is planning to use it as a Carrier based trainer. They are still milking the J7 design!!


JL-9H with DSI intake

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## Bilal9

LKJ86 said:


> JL-9H with DSI intake
> View attachment 536919
> 
> View attachment 536921



Yes the DSI Intake was similarly adopted with the JF-17 design as well - as I recall, after deeming the boundary layer splitter may be sub-optimal with the initial prototype.

It may have been adopted as a new feature with the JL-9G/FTC-2000G variant?

However if you are going to put this in a carrier (with the fuel and missile weight) you will need far stronger legs...


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## LKJ86

Bilal9 said:


> Yes the DSI Intake was similarly adopted with the JF-17 design as well - as I recall, after deeming the boundary layer splitter may be sub-optimal with the initial prototype.
> 
> It may have been adopted as a new feature with the JL-9G/FTC-2000G variant?


The comparison between FTC-2000 and FTC-2000G
















Bilal9 said:


> However if you are going to put this in a carrier (with the fuel and missile weight) you will need far stronger legs...


It will be JL-10.
JL-9H is just used for land-based training.

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## Bilal9

LKJ86 said:


> The comparison between FTC-2000 and FTC-2000G
> View attachment 536927
> View attachment 536928
> View attachment 536929
> View attachment 536930
> 
> 
> 
> It will be JL-10.
> JL-9H is just used for land-based training.



Wow!! Really appreciate your explanation. Exhaust, wingspan, tailplanes all larger.

Well guys - we have our new fighter program right there, maybe with ToT. 

At $6-7 Million a pop - this is very cost effective, probably even cheaper if assembled locally.

One last question, noticed that the exhaust is larger, so this may use a different engine than the WP 13/14? If not - then why?


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## LKJ86

Bilal9 said:


> Wow!! Really appreciate your explanation. Exhaust, wingspan, tailplanes all larger.
> 
> Well guys - we have our new fighter program right there, maybe with ToT.
> 
> At $6-7 Million a pop - this is very cost effective, probably even cheaper if assembled locally.
> 
> One last question, noticed that the exhaust is larger, so this may use a different engine than the WP 13/14? If not - then why?


FTC-2000G still uses WP-13 engine.
Low cost is always a chief consideration.

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## Bilal9

LKJ86 said:


> FTC-2000G still uses WP-13 engine.
> Low cost is always a chief consideration.



Yup - understood. This is going to be way cheaper than even JF-17. But then - also somewhat less capable all around. Which suits a different market to a tee. Whether for us or not - I will leave for everyone to comment on...


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## LKJ86

Bilal9 said:


> Yup - understood. This is going to be way cheaper than even JF-17. But then - also somewhat less capable all around. Which suits a different market to a tee. Whether for us or not - I will leave for everyone to comment on...


It is sure that FTC-2000G is much cheaper than JF-17.

It may use the PESA radar of JL-10, if needed.

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## Bilal9

LKJ86 said:


> It is sure that FTC-2000G is much cheaper than JF-17.



FTC-2000G is estimated to have a price-tag of US$6-8 Million whereas each copy of JF-17 costs the Pakistani Govt. $20-25 Million (per Pakistani sources). I don't know if graft figures in this equation but it is likely.

The Gripen and J-10 are in another class and costs $45 million and $35 million each, respectively.

I have seen discussions from credible sources who say that the FTC-2000G is capable of lifting over 3.3 tons of external stores and ordnance, and can be configured to have various role changes.

The word 'light ground attack' and 'bang-for-the-buck' comes to mind.


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> FTC-2000G is estimated to have a price-tag of US$6-8 Million whereas each copy of JF-17 costs the Pakistani Govt. $20-25 Million (per Pakistani sources). I don't know if graft figures in this equation but it is likely.
> 
> The Gripen and J-10 are in another class and costs $45 and $35 million each, respectively.
> 
> I have seen discussions from credible sources who say that the FTC-2000G is capable of lifting over 3.3 tons of external stores and ordnance, and can be configured to have various role changes.
> 
> The word 'light ground attack' and 'bang-for-the-buck' comes to mind.



No thanks.

Bangladesh is gonna have to grow up some day.

Might as well be now.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> No thanks.
> 
> Bangladesh is gonna have to grow up some day.
> 
> Might as well be now.



Are you suggesting some other fighter to be built locally under ToT? Which one?


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## Nike

Dont know if its related or not, in the past Indonesia and Yugoslav had made cooperation to build light fighter alas Yugoslav break before the cooperation started and then we are trying to acquire locally made fighter capabilities by buying design in Hawk series from BAE after bought at least 3 squadrons worth Hawk and design license, but we got duped severaly during western arms embargoe after what happened in Santa Cruz incidents. Just recently we are looking seriously to acquire capabilities to build fighter and this time with South Korea. 

Indonesia Aviation industry is only got two decent partners who never left us in our dire needs, a friend indeed. One is gov. of Spain and their casa (althought they are currently merged with Airbus) second is German France consortium AIRBUS system. 

To nurture defense industry especially Aviation industry one need decent and proven partner who never left you behind even in your darkest hour. We got valuable lesson during last decades

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Are you suggesting some other fighter to be built locally under ToT? Which one?



“ToT” isn’t an immediate priority for me.

Fielding an effective fighting force is.

When your potential adversaries are fielding JF-17 possibly with AESA, SU-30SME, not to mention SU-30MKI, or Rafales and BAF buys an uber evolved F-7 in 2019, there’s a problem.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> “ToT” isn’t an immediate priority for me.
> 
> Fielding an effective fighting force is.
> 
> When your potential adversaries are fielding JF-17 possibly with AESA, SU-30SME, not to mention SU-30MKI, or Rafales and BAF buys an uber evolved F-7 in 2019, there’s a problem.



I get your point - however, an airforce needs to field two types of platforms per tried and true Russian Airforce principle, if I may. What you mention is only one part of an equation.

One is a *cheap, effective and expendable platform *(maybe not so reliable but workable) in *NUMBERS*. I'd compare this to the ubiquitous T-34 Tank fielded in numbers in the Battles around Moscow in the early 40's. The Russians simply out-produced the Germans with these tanks (last count was some 20,000 produced) and other armor and the Germans could not destroy enough of them. For every one that broke down, there was five/six of them ready to go.

The other is the *QUALITY *offensive platform that you field against any high quality weapons fielded by your enemy. That is what you are talking about. It has it's place, but it cannot be fielded in numbers because of cost and hence will need to be fielded selectively and strategically, in the right place and at the right time.

Both types of fighters have their place in an air force.


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> I get your point - however, an airforce needs to field two types of platforms per tried and true Russian Airforce principle, if I may. What you mention is only one part of an equation.
> 
> One is a *cheap, effective and expendable platform *(maybe not so reliable but workable) in *NUMBERS*. I'd compare this to the ubiquitous T-34 Tank fielded in numbers in the Battles around Moscow in the early 40's. The Russians simply out-produced the Germans with these tanks (last count was some 20,000 produced) and other armor and the Germans could not destroy enough of them. For every one that broke down, there was five/six of them ready to go.
> 
> The other is the *QUALITY *offensive platform that you field against any high quality weapons fielded by your enemy. That is what you are talking about. It has it's place, but it cannot be fielded in numbers because of cost and hence will need to be fielded selectively and strategically, in the right place and at the right time.
> 
> Both types of fighters have their place in an air force.



I agree with that principle of course.

It seems every air arm in the world seeks that balance from the USAF to the BAF. (Especially in light of expensive 5th gen options)

That being said, how many fighters is the BAF seeking to field?

Right now there are 2 F-7BG and BGI squadrons at about 15 and 16 aircraft apiece.

And the half strength Fulcrum squadron with 8.

Then an unknown number, probably around 10 or so legacy F-7MB.

Then 13 Yak-130, which I hesitate to call combatants. (At least in the supersonic multi role sense) so I will exclude those in the count.

So about 50 total aircraft comprising 3.5 squadrons or really 4 I suppose?

How many total new planes is the BAF seeking to acquire?

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## Species

Avicenna said:


> “ToT” isn’t an immediate priority for me.
> 
> Fielding an effective fighting force is.
> 
> When your potential adversaries are fielding JF-17 possibly with AESA, SU-30SME, not to mention SU-30MKI, or Rafales and BAF buys an uber evolved F-7 in 2019, there’s a problem.



I believe the need for ToT stems from the struggles BAF faced in terms of unreliable suppliers throughout its history. In 1975, almost the entire fleet of BAF had to be grounded as the Soviets refused to supply spare parts after the military coup. I guess the same thing happened with the Mig 29s when BNP came into power. There were even rumours of cannibalizing different units of the aircraft to keep them operational. 

Perhaps, there is a concern that China also couldn't be trusted if there is a conflict with Myanmar. The West is not reliable either, given the political strings they attach. In short, there is simply no alternative to building indigenous capabilities and earning self-sufficiency as much as possible.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Well you have made very good points.
> 
> Fast is one thing, maneuverable is even better (corrected with the double-delta or cranked delta wings on the latest J7 variants supplied to us), and the Chinese WP-13/14 power-plant has become quite reliable and has boasted increased MTBF over the years - but these days, as even basic fighters have BVR (our fighter if created locally should have it), sensors and radar (meaning where to place them) becomes more critical. Granted sensors and radars themselves are getting smaller and smaller but even current 'cheap' radars like the Italian Grifo (or the Chinese KLJ-7 developed from the Russian Phazotron radars as used in the JF17) that some basic fighters use, has a minimum size. One cannot get away from it. AESA in the later variants is better, negating the need for mechanical steering. Grifo comes in many sizes and variants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...galileo-improves-grifo-radar-new-applications
> 
> So you have to place the radar on the nose and have to move the engine intakes to the side (taking care of boundary control layer issues) and you end up with the Guizhou JL-9 (or FTC-2000 as it is called nowadays).
> 
> This line is still open and still being produced albeit in very small numbers, as I understand it. But compared to the F7 (J7) there may be aerodynamic issues because it is not as 'clean' a design. As you can see, intake backward, It is the same F7 we use. But now you have space to put the radar on the nose.
> 
> The PLANAF is planning to use it as a Carrier based trainer. They are still milking the J7 design!!


i wonder how much increase in drag in trying to increase the overall height of the fuselage....

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## Destranator

Species said:


> I believe the need for ToT stems from the struggles BAF faced in terms of unreliable suppliers throughout its history. In 1975, almost the entire fleet of BAF had to be grounded as the Soviets refused to supply spare parts after the military coup. I guess the same thing happened with the Mig 29s when BNP came into power. There were even rumours of cannibalizing different units of the aircraft to keep them operational.
> 
> Perhaps, there is a concern that China also couldn't be trusted if there is a conflict with Myanmar. The West is not reliable either, given the political strings they attach. In short, there is simply no alternative to building indigenous capabilities and earning self-sufficiency as much as possible.




This is not a correct charecterisation of events. The Soviets used to respect BB a lot. Relations were such that when BB visited Russia in 1972, he got them to supply a squadron of brand new MiG-21s for free. It is only natural that the Soviets would choose not to empower a military, that grabbed power by assassinating the man they admired, by supplying military spares.

When BNP returned to power in 2001, they deliberately violated agreements with Russia by refusing to pay for the 8 Fulcrums supplied and cancelling the order for another 8. Russia then took us to court to retrieve due payment. This was all purely due to the saltiness of the 8th grade educated woman in charge.

BNP chose to retire the MiG-29s and Ulsan frigate, the lone missile frigate of BN at the time, purely out of jealousy and in complete disregard for national security. There were no attempts to buy any spares back then. Labelling Russia as the unreliable party in this context is deeply ironic. 

Do not get me wrong: Russian manufacturers do have reliability issues but in the grand scheme of things Russia is among the more reliable military suppliers in the world for us as they usually supply if you pay them right and do not attach political strings like the West does.

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> i wonder how much increase in drag in trying to increase the overall height of the fuselage....



The height increase of the fuselage (if you're talking about the pilots' canopy) does not induce a lot of extra drag. The Mirage two-seaters all look like this and that is a highly efficient airframe.










In any case we are talking Mach 1.2 and not Mach 2 with supercruise etc. I reckon the main drag is induced by wing tip/tail tip shapes, and the wing planform.

As you can see, wing was not only made larger, but there is a little twist in the wing-joiner fillet. Also, the tailplanes were made larger and the wingtips and tail's tip were clipped and rounded to reduce drag (a la 80's/90's Russian aircraft like Su-27). The long fins under the exhaust are also gone. I also believe some of the components may be made of GFRP/CFRP to reduce weight.










From left to right: FTC-2000G，JL-10，Yak-130，M-346，T-50，T-X

Now if they could fit a cheap turbofan with FADEC to this design - that'd increase the range quite a bit (at least say 70%). Turbojets are notorious gas-guzzlers, but they are also simpler to maintain and reliable in rough use compared to Turbofans. But Turbofans are more expensive and then we'd have a tough choice to make, a 60's era design with the expense and the relative economics of say, the Gripen. Do we want such a thing?

I think better to just leave it at cheap, somewhat reliable and expendable. That is not a detriment to this machine. It is what it is and is superb as a 'bang-for-the-buck' platform. Kind of like a modern day Chinese T-38 Talon.


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## TopCat

LKJ86 said:


> It is sure that FTC-2000G is much cheaper than JF-17.
> 
> It may use the PESA radar of JL-10, if needed.
> View attachment 536935
> 
> View attachment 536937


What is that made of


Bilal9 said:


> The height increase of the fuselage (if you're talking about the pilots' canopy) does not induce a lot of extra drag. The Mirage two-seaters all look like this and that is a highly efficient airframe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In any case we are talking Mach 1.2 and not Mach 2 with supercruise etc. I reckon the main drag is induced by wing tip/tail tip shapes, and the wing planform.
> 
> As you can see, wing was not only made larger, but there is a little twist in the wing-joiner fillet. Also, the tailplanes were made larger and the wingtips and tail's tip were clipped and rounded to reduce drag (a la 80's/90's Russian aircraft like Su-27). The long fins under the exhaust are also gone. I also believe some of the components may be made of GFRP/CFRP to reduce weight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From left to right: FTC-2000G，JL-10，Yak-130，M-346，T-50，T-X
> 
> Now if they could fit a cheap turbofan with FADEC to this design - that'd increase the range quite a bit (at least say 70%). Turbojets are notorious gas-guzzlers, but they are also simpler to maintain and reliable in rough use compared to Turbofans. But Turbofans are more expensive and then we'd have a tough choice to make, a 60's era design with the expense and the relative economics of say, the Gripen. Do we want such a thing?
> 
> I think better to just leave it at cheap, somewhat reliable and expendable. That is not a detriment to this machine. It is what it is and is superb as a 'bang-for-the-buck' platform. Kind of like a modern day Chinese T-38 Talon.


Canopy Actually increases liftl

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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> What is that made of



PESA radar is a newer and more inexpensive version of AESA radar as far as I know. AESA uses Active Electronic Scanning using an array, and I believe PESA uses Passive Electronic Scanning. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_electronically_scanned_array



> Canopy Actually increases liftl



And you'd be right.

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> When your potential adversaries are fielding JF-17 possibly with AESA, SU-30SME, not to mention SU-30MKI, or Rafales and BAF buys an uber evolved F-7 in 2019, there’s a problem.



Excellent. Now I know which one I will be rooting for 

Can't wait for all the flood of threads that go to nothing again. @Imran Khan @Aung Zaya


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## Imran Khan

Nilgiri said:


> Excellent. Now I know which one I will be rooting for
> 
> Can't wait for all the flood of threads that go to nothing again. @Imran Khan @Aung Zaya


Bhai mery ko is lafry main nhi parna

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> I agree with that principle of course.
> 
> It seems every air arm in the world seeks that balance from the USAF to the BAF. (Especially in light of expensive 5th gen options)
> 
> That being said, how many fighters is the BAF seeking to field?
> 
> Right now there are 2 F-7BG and BGI squadrons at about 15 and 16 aircraft apiece.
> 
> And the half strength Fulcrum squadron with 8.
> 
> Then an unknown number, probably around 10 or so legacy F-7MB.
> 
> Then 13 Yak-130, which I hesitate to call combatants. (At least in the supersonic multi role sense) so I will exclude those in the count.
> 
> So about 50 total aircraft comprising 3.5 squadrons or really 4 I suppose?
> 
> How many total new planes is the BAF seeking to acquire?



I will leave the question of force strength and strategy to people far more intelligent than myself. But we need to standardize those two types of operational fighters (not Lead In trainer platforms) and at least produce the simpler/cheaper fighter platform locally with ToT, like Pakistan is doing. For the higher grade platform, we need to have fully independent capability to stock/overhaul/supply critical spare parts, both engine and air frame-wise.

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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> PESA radar is a newer and more inexpensive version of AESA radar as far as I know. AESA uses Active Electronic Scanning using an array, and I believe PESA uses Passive Electronic Scanning.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_electronically_scanned_array
> 
> 
> 
> And you'd be right.


Did you notice the rivet holes in them? Murir tin has better craftsmanship than this. I guess the aircraft body is made of aluminium. No wonder its 7 million a piece.


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## Species

Al-Ansar said:


> This is not a correct charecterisation of events. The Soviets used to respect BB a lot. Relations were such that when BB visited Russia in 1972, he got them to supply a squadron of brand new MiG-21s for free. It is only natural that the Soviets would choose not to empower a military, that grabbed power by assassinating the man they admired, by supplying military spares.
> 
> When BNP returned to power in 2001, they deliberately violated agreements with Russia by refusing to pay for the 8 Fulcrums supplied and cancelling the order for another 8. Russia then took us to court to retrieve due payment. This was all purely due to the saltiness of the 8th grade educated woman in charge.
> 
> BNP chose to retire the MiG-29s and Ulsan frigate, the lone missile frigate of BN at the time, purely out of jealousy and in complete disregard for national security. There were no attempts to buy any spares back then. Labelling Russia as the unreliable party in this context is deeply ironic.
> 
> Do not get me wrong: Russian manufacturers do have reliability issues but in the grand scheme of things Russia is among the more reliable military suppliers in the world for us as they usually supply if you pay them right and do not attach political strings like the West does.



Well, you have explained the political causes of the issue which might be true but that's not really the point here. What I'm saying is, end of the day, BAF had to struggle because of the erratic supply (for whatever the reasons are), that's enough to justify going indigenous which I think BAF too is looking forward to. There is every possibility that the same issues could occur again; geopolitics is a tricky business. 

And there is no free lunch my friend. Soviets supplied those Mig-21s as BB was pro-Soviet. After the coup in 1975, they correctly predicted that the new government would be pro-West, hence, stopped the supply of those spare parts. Perhaps, the same thing happened with the Mig-29s as well since BNP, to this day, is quite pro-West. 

Note that, countries like Poland or Egypt also went through similar changes in their foreign policies and geopolitical pursuits but never had to face the same challenges as BAF. Something wrong with our negotiations and dealings perhaps? Debatable, and a bit off-topic as well.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Did you notice the rivet holes in them? Murir tin has better craftsmanship than this. I guess the aircraft body is made of aluminium. No wonder its 7 million a piece.


The ft2000 (f7 successor) whatever it’s model name may be?



Species said:


> Well, you have explained the political causes of the issue which might be true but that's not really the point here. What I'm saying is, end of the day, BAF had to struggle because of the erratic supply (for whatever the reasons are), that's enough to justify going indigenous which I think BAF too is looking forward to. There is every possibility that the same issues could occur again; geopolitics is a tricky business.
> 
> And there is no free lunch my friend. Soviets supplied those Mig-21s as BB was pro-Soviet. After the coup in 1975, they correctly predicted that the new government would be pro-West, hence, stopped the supply of those spare parts. Perhaps, the same thing happened with the Mig-29s as well since BNP, to this day, is quite pro-West.
> 
> Note that, countries like Poland or Egypt also went through similar changes in their foreign policies and geopolitical pursuits but never had to face the same challenges as BAF. Something wrong with our negotiations and dealings perhaps? Debatable, and a bit off-topic as well.


Forgive me for saying this but Lund pro west. They effectively gave BAF the death sentence, had they tried to purchase f16 with lobbying and sold off the mig29 as justifications, I would have been singing a different song


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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> Did you notice the rivet holes in them? Murir tin has better craftsmanship than this. I guess the aircraft body is made of aluminium. No wonder its 7 million a piece.



Bhai murir tin er byaparta riveting quality er opor nirbhar korey. Prototype guli oto bhalobhabey banano hoina.

The better the riveting (the more flush) the better it looks,which ideally needs to be countersunk.

How flush, depends on the riveter expert as well as the riveting tool itself, both of which maybe suspect here. But that can be corrected using QC and has nothing to do with the price. See below.






If you are buying a product from China - you specify the quality, they will conform. Or quality is better controlled if we make with ToT locally.

The point is, we should have bought this in addition to the Yak 130's, and would have asked for ToT as well, which China would have easily agreed to. Every nation has to start somewhere.


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## Tanveer666

Bilal9 said:


> Bhai murir tin er byaparta riveting quality er opor nirbhar korey. Prototype guli oto bhalobhabey banano hoina.
> 
> The better the riveting (the more flush) the better it looks,which ideally needs to be countersunk.
> 
> How flush, depends on the riveter expert as well as the riveting tool itself, both of which maybe suspect here. But that can be corrected using QC and has nothing to do with the price. See below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are buying a product from China - you specify the quality, they will conform. Or quality is better controlled if we make with ToT locally.
> 
> The point is, we should have bought this in addition to the Yak 130's, and would have asked for ToT as well, which China would have easily agreed to. Every nation has to start somewhere.


do we have the adequate local demand (for aircraft) so that whatever we save from building them locally outweigh the cost of setting up the plant?


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> The better the riveting (the more flush) the better it looks,which ideally needs to be countersunk.


Tig welding or adhesive bonding is used for those aircrafts with flush appearance. Earlier mig 29s had both riveting and welding... you could typically notice the rivers near the end of the plane because the drags caused on those surface is negligible but welds were used exactly to mitigate that near the frontal structures



Tanveer666 said:


> do we have the adequate local demand (for aircraft) so that whatever we save from building them locally outweigh the cost of setting up the plant?


A minimum of 10 more squadron is required as per the forces goal... Bangladesh squadrons typically have 16 planes in a squadron so 160 aircraft at least needed... now the question is will they try to purchase two platforms like we have been hearing... if they do... getting tot will be unlikely, if a single platform is chosen then most likely yes.

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Tig welding or adhesive bonding is used for those aircrafts with flush appearance. Earlier mig 29s had both riveting and welding... you could typically notice the rivers near the end of the plane because the drags caused on those surface is negligible but welds were used exactly to mitigate that near the frontal structures
> 
> 
> A minimum of 10 more squadron is required as per the forces goal... Bangladesh squadrons typically have 16 planes in a squadron so 160 aircraft at least needed... now the question is will they try to purchase two platforms like we have been hearing... if they do... getting tot will be unlikely, if a single platform is chosen then most likely yes.



More than that - the over-riding reason to get ToT is that we need to advance the game of being self-sufficient in producing armament and defense platforms. Just producing/assembling a few missiles and trucks and welding together turrets for old tanks is not going to be sufficient even for the next five years, the way local expectation in the armed services is developing. 

Better plan for it now- before the leaders are caught with their pants down....

Bangabandhu Aeronautical center is already doing complete overhaul for Mi-171 Helis/powerplants and may go to production of some of the more common consumables/spares soon. Same with the BTR-80's and BTR-80A at the Ordnance Factory where they overhaul/refurbish them locally (we have maybe even 800 plus of these things by now and we maybe the world's largest user thanks to UN operations).


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## Avicenna

https://www.defmin.fi/en/administrative_branch/strategic_capability_projects/hx_fighter_program

Crickets in this thread....

Off topic link to Finland's fighter program.

Perhaps Bangladesh can learn a thing or two.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> https://www.defmin.fi/en/administrative_branch/strategic_capability_projects/hx_fighter_program
> 
> Crickets in this thread....
> 
> Off topic link to Finland's fighter program.
> 
> Perhaps Bangladesh can learn a thing or two.



Great find and Good call brother!

We should follow their progress....being in Europe (and I believe being a part of NATO) they may have advantages however....

These were the main points I believe (I believe the third point is very important for us), in typical robust (simple) Scandinavian fashion they broke down the main points. 

*Comparison and selection of fighters – what criteria will be used to make the selection?*

The selection of fighters will be a significant decision in terms of security policy, defence policy and national economy. Many factors affect this decision. The following have been specified as areas of key importance for making the decision:


*Capabilities: The system's capability to win fights during its service life.*
*Costs: Can we afford to purchase, use and develop the system throughout is life cycle?*
*Security of supply and the domestic industry’s role: The usability of the system in times of peace and war.*
*Security and defence policy impacts: Potential impacts of the selection on Finland’s security and defence cooperation.*
While the most crucial area for making the decision on the fighter selection is capabilities, all other areas are also important. The comparison of fighters will be carried out by the best experts in Finland. The defence administration will then make a proposal on the type and number of fighters to be procured. The final decision will be made by the Government in 2021. The funding for the project will be approved by Parliament.


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Great find and Good call brother!
> 
> We should follow their progress....being in Europe (and I believe being a part of NATO) they may have advantages however....
> 
> These were the main points I believe (I believe the third point is very important for us), in typical robust (simple) Scandinavian fashion they broke down the main points.
> 
> *Comparison and selection of fighters – what criteria will be used to make the selection?*
> 
> The selection of fighters will be a significant decision in terms of security policy, defence policy and national economy. Many factors affect this decision. The following have been specified as areas of key importance for making the decision:
> 
> 
> *Capabilities: The system's capability to win fights during its service life.*
> *Costs: Can we afford to purchase, use and develop the system throughout is life cycle?*
> *Security of supply and the domestic industry’s role: The usability of the system in times of peace and war.*
> *Security and defence policy impacts: Potential impacts of the selection on Finland’s security and defence cooperation.*
> While the most crucial area for making the decision on the fighter selection is capabilities, all other areas are also important. The comparison of fighters will be carried out by the best experts in Finland. The defence administration will then make a proposal on the type and number of fighters to be procured. The final decision will be made by the Government in 2021. The funding for the project will be approved by Parliament.



Not a member of NATO.

In fact, previous to the end of the Cold War, had to balance NATO and Warsaw Pact with both Mig-21 and Draken in service.

The fact, that when they didn't have to do that anymore, they chose the Hornet and now in a subsequent fighter competition includes only Western options should tell us something.

In anycase, love the transparency and rational nature of the website.

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## VikingRaider

Bilal9 said:


> Great find and Good call brother!
> 
> We should follow their progress....being in Europe (and I believe being a part of NATO) they may have advantages however....
> 
> These were the main points I believe (I believe the third point is very important for us), in typical robust (simple) Scandinavian fashion they broke down the main points.
> 
> *Comparison and selection of fighters – what criteria will be used to make the selection?*
> 
> The selection of fighters will be a significant decision in terms of security policy, defence policy and national economy. Many factors affect this decision. The following have been specified as areas of key importance for making the decision:
> 
> 
> *Capabilities: The system's capability to win fights during its service life.*
> *Costs: Can we afford to purchase, use and develop the system throughout is life cycle?*
> *Security of supply and the domestic industry’s role: The usability of the system in times of peace and war.*
> *Security and defence policy impacts: Potential impacts of the selection on Finland’s security and defence cooperation.*
> While the most crucial area for making the decision on the fighter selection is capabilities, all other areas are also important. The comparison of fighters will be carried out by the best experts in Finland. The defence administration will then make a proposal on the type and number of fighters to be procured. The final decision will be made by the Government in 2021. The funding for the project will be approved by Parliament.




Brother ,what is the best aircraft for BAF in your opinion ? @UKBengali said that Gripen , @TopCat think that Eurofighter typhoon , some other poster want Rafale , I said that it's f-16 , *although I have very little idea about military equipment* , but suggested f-16 only because it is best selling . @The Ronin wants Russian stuffs , so actually what do we really need?

I am actually screwed up between those various decisions (নানা মুনির নানা মতের ভিতর ) although no one wrote a proper explanation , can you please give me relief with some explanation that what aircraft is better for us and why ? I want comparison between western stuffs only . Thanks in advance !
@Bilal9

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## TopCat

Atlas said:


> Brother ,what is the best aircraft for BAF in your opinion ? @UKBengali said that Gripen , @TopCat think that Eurofighter typhoon , some other poster want Rafale , I said that it's f-16 , *although I have very little idea about military equipment* , but suggested f-16 only because it is best selling . @The Ronin wants Russian stuffs , so actually what do we really need?
> 
> I am exactly screwed up between those various decisions (নানা মুনির নানা মতের ভিতর ) although no one wrote a proper explanation , can you please give me relief with some explanation that what aircraft is better for us and why ? I want comparison between western stuffs only . Thanks in advance !
> @Bilal9


4 sqdn of J-10 backed by 1 sqdn Typhoon along with older F-7 will create a great air force.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> 4 sqdn of J-10 backed by 1 sqdn Typhoon along with older F-7 will create a great air force.




You aware that BD would need to pay around 4 billion USA dollars just for 1 squadron(16) of Typhoons?
16 Gripens would come in at 2.5 billion US dollars.

Compare the running costs below per hour(data from 2012):

https://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes/

1. Gripen - 4,700 US dollars
2. Typhoon - 18,000 US dollars

BAF would be spending all it's money just to maintain the 16 Typhoons. Typhoon is a rich man's plane and the only Western fighter that BD can afford is Gripen.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> You aware that BD would need to pay around 4 billion USA dollars just for 1 squadron(16) of Typhoons?
> 16 Gripens would come in at 2.5 billion US dollars
> 
> Compare the running costs below per hour(data from 2012):
> 
> https://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes/
> 
> 1. Gripen - 4,700 US dollars
> 2. Typhoon - 18,000 US dollars
> 
> BAF would be spending all it's money just to maintain the 16 Typhoons. Typhoon is a rich man's plane and the only Western fighter that BD can afford is Gripen.


There are a lot of inflated price along with pilot salary(most likely)... If India can afford 100s of Rafael, I am sure we can afford 1 sqdn too. There are no reason Typhoon require 18000 dollar whereas Gripen requires only 4700 dollar. Can you tell me where those extra money going to be spent on? Fuel.. oxyzen?? There should be pretty much same maintenance with 2 engine instead of one.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> There are a lot of inflated price along with pilot salary(most likely)... If India can afford 100s of Rafael, I am sure we can afford 1 sqdn too. There are no reason Typhoon require 18000 dollar whereas Gripen requires only 4700 dollar. Can you tell me where those extra money going to be spent on? Fuel.. oxyzen?? There should be pretty much same maintenance with 2 engine instead of one.




I am not saying that the difference is as large as the data suggests but Typhoon would sure cost much more to run.

Two engines would require a lot more maintenance than one and the larger Typhoon would burn a lot more fuel than Gripen.

Whichever way you look at it, BD would pay a lot more(around 50%) to buy the Typhoon upfront and also pay a lot more to operate them as well.

Yes, Typhoon is a better fighter overall and means that the USA has no say but it is just too expensive for BAF. It would be a case of BD spending all it's money on just 16 Typhoons or 16 Gripens and 2-3 squadrons of J-10Cs instead - I would go for the latter.


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## VikingRaider

TopCat said:


> There are a lot of inflated price along with pilot salary(most likely)... If India can afford 100s of Rafael, I am sure we can afford 1 sqdn too. There are no reason Typhoon require 18000 dollar whereas Gripen requires only 4700 dollar. Can you tell me where those extra money going to be spent on? Fuel.. oxyzen?? There should be pretty much same maintenance with 2 engine instead of one.


I read somewhere ( actually in quora ) that typhoon *maintenance* cost is extremely high ? I do not know if it is a reliable figure or not , but I also read the same statistics somewhere I can not find the link now . Please take a look ( answer by Brandon beck) and write that if this figure is realistic or not ?
https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-the-flying-cost-per-hour-of-the-F35A-Rafale-and-Typhoon-compare

@TopCat

However @UKBengali , I honestly believe that we should not go for cheaper products , as they are not daily goods that we will buy everyday . And also perhaps numbers should not be an issue for military .

India has nearly 2 times bigger army than Pakistan , but that did not make India victorious against Pakistan in wars , but almost all wars were tie !
What is your opinion about it?


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## UKBengali

@Atlas

It is a question of strategy. 

BD needs fighters that it can use against either India and Myanmar with no problems. 
J-10C can be procured from China in numbers and there would be no question of not getting supplies from China if BD was at war with India.
UK has deep ties with India and cannot be relied on in case BD was at war with India. 

Gripen is more than good enough to take on Myanmar air force and even if Sweden sanctioned BD in a conflict, it will have enough supplies stockpiled that the small MAF can be wiped out with what BD has in place.

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## VikingRaider

UKBengali said:


> @Atlas
> 
> It is a question of strategy.
> 
> BD needs fighters that it can use against either India and Myanmar with no problems.
> J-10C can be procured from China in numbers and there would be no question of not getting supplies from China if BD was at war with India.
> UK has deep ties with India and cannot be relied on in case BD was at war with India.
> 
> Gripen is more than good enough to take on Myanmar air force and even if Sweden sanctioned BD in a conflict, it will have enough supplies stockpiled that the small MAF can be wiped out with what BD has in place.


Okay understood . Maybe your line of thinking about India and UK relationship is correct , since India is bigger market for UK or anyone because of it's mammoth size of population.

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## Avicenna

Atlas said:


> Okay understood . Maybe your line of thinking about India and UK relationship is correct , since India is bigger market for UK or anyone because of it's mammoth size of population.



Just a few quick points.

The only Western option that I beleive is realistically possible is the Gripen. I discount even used F-16s due to politics.

But the Gripen should be available, but like what was said earlier by others, I think the Bangaldeshi side is the main barrier.

The Gripens would be useful for any conflict with Myanmar which is far more likely than anything with India.

On the other hand, a Chinese or Russian option should be sought to 1) Increase numbers and 2) Be used if there is any conflict with India as any Western options would without a doubt be sanctioned.

However, such a conflict is extremely unlikely and if it indeed takes place, a few planes here and there wont matter much.

India would be in Dhaka if they wanted to be. Not to mention the nuclear aspect.

Thus realistically, the BAF needs to buy the Gripen and fill out the inventory with either a Russian or Chinese option.

I personally would go Swedish and Chinese and get the Gripen and a J-10C variant.

I would steer clear of the Mig-35 as well as a Flanker variant.

Unless BD can afford a significant number of Flankers.

The maintancence and actual mission readiness concern me.

In addition, I wouldn't mind some variant of the FC-1.

So yea, BAF buy some Gripen C/D with AESA and J-10C.

If not then perhaps get a BAF specific FC-1.

BAF needs numbers as well. I doubt the 160 as per FG 2030 but perhaps approaching 80 if even 5 squadrons are to be fielded.

Current and future air bases being in Dhaka, Chittagong, Cox's Bazaar as well as Barisal and Syhlet.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Just a few quick points.
> 
> The only Western option that I beleive is realistically possible is the Gripen. I discount even used F-16s due to politics.
> 
> But the Gripen should be available, but like what was said earlier by others, I think the Bangaldeshi side is the main barrier.
> 
> The Gripens would be useful for any conflict with Myanmar which is far more likely than anything with India.
> 
> On the other hand, a Chinese or Russian option should be sought to 1) Increase numbers and 2) Be used if there is any conflict with India as any Western options would without a doubt be sanctioned.
> 
> However, such a conflict is extremely unlikely and if it indeed takes place, a few planes here and there wont matter much.
> 
> India would be in Dhaka if they wanted to be. Not to mention the nuclear aspect.
> 
> Thus realistically, the BAF needs to buy the Gripen and fill out the inventory with either a Russian or Chinese option.
> 
> I personally would go Swedish and Chinese and get the Gripen and a J-10C variant.
> 
> I would steer clear of the Mig-35 as well as a Flanker variant.
> 
> Unless BD can afford a significant number of Flankers.
> 
> The maintancence and actual mission readiness concern me.
> 
> In addition, I wouldn't mind some variant of the FC-1.
> 
> So yea, BAF buy some Gripen C/D with AESA and J-10C.
> 
> If not then perhaps get a BAF specific FC-1.
> 
> BAF needs numbers as well. I doubt the 160 as per FG 2030 but perhaps approaching 80 if even 5 squadrons are to be fielded.
> 
> Current and furture air bases being in Dhaka, Chittagong, Cox's Bazaar as well as Barisal and Syhlet.




I tend to agree with most of what you say here.

Respectfully disagree that BD cannot build a formidable deterrent to India by 2030.

Yes in 2019 getting 160 modern fighters seems unrealistic but it is still technically possible. All major economic organisations predict BD economy to remain robust till 2030 and so it is not a question of finance but one of will.

If BAF was to sign contracts this year for two types of aircraft, then there is no reason that follow on orders could not make up 10 squadrons(160 planes) by 2030.

If BD actually follows through on "Forces Goal 2030" then only a full-scale attack by India could defeat the BD military in the field. Since India also has Pakistan and China to think about, it could not really entertain this and so BD achieves deterrence.

Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country.

We shall find out this year if AL are actually serious about getting 10 squadrons of modern fighters by 2030 as per "Forces Goal 2030". No contract signed this year and then we can say that BAF is dead for sure.

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## VikingRaider

UKBengali said:


> Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country


Right , if anyone can hit others with NUKE , then no one can stop others making NUKE too as self defence.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I tend to agree with most of what you say here.
> 
> Respectfully disagree that BD cannot build a formidable deterrent to India by 2030.
> 
> Yes in 2019 getting 160 modern fighters seems unrealistic but it is still technically possible. All major economic organisations predict BD economy to remain robust till 2030 and so it is not a question of finance but one of will.
> 
> If BAF was to sign contracts this year for two types of aircraft, then there is no reason that follow on orders could not make up 10 squadrons(160 planes) by 2030.
> 
> If BD actually follows through on "Forces Goal 2030" then only a full-scale attack by India could defeat the BD military in the field. Since India also has Pakistan and India to think about, it could not really entertain this and so BD achieves deterrence.
> 
> Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country.
> 
> We shall find out this year if AL are actually serious about getting 10 squadrons of modern fighters by 2030 as per "Forces Goal 2030". No contract signed this year and then we can say that BAF is dead for sure.



I think this first order will tell us alot where BAF is going.

If its more of the same old....then BAF is in for some trouble.

If they surprise us somehow with something out of the box, perhaps things are changing for the better.

Who knows....


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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Nuclear weapons are off the table because India could not face the international condemnation of using nuclear weapons on a much smaller and non-nuclear country.



Why would we use nukes against Bangladesh?....a country that lock stop condemns everything bad that happens to India? You are a client state thats spoken for....with a few piecemeal optics allowed to maintain some semblance of independence....which again is permitted to you (by the one that set you up as the country you are now)...not defined by you.

Next time actually shoot down a MAF airspace violator when they are shoving 2 million people into you....rather than just braying about it being the final final final time and shaking your fist....and then going silent when another violation happens and even more of your chittagong illegals shoved into your face.

Actually climb the first rung of the ladder, before you start making plans of how the view might look from the top of the cliff. BD 2030 is a joke. Cant wait for yet more failures and delays this year regarding actual acquisitions (as limited and puny as they are to begin with). BD military threads are always a whole lot of fun....100's of pages for nothing in the end.



Atlas said:


> Right , if anyone can hit others with NUKE , then no one can stop others making NUKE too as self defence.



Nuclear weapons have already been used against a country that did not possess them. So Bangladesh has no excuse, start making them (according to your logic). Instead you signed the NPT....and have zilch on any basic know-how of the technology. That was "your" decision again obviously. Hence why Myanmar has its easy way with you (combined with you being fearful of using anything conventional to begin with).

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> India would be in Dhaka if they wanted to be. Not to mention the nuclear aspect.



Yes they could and granted the Nuke aspect too - but you may be overlooking the Pakistan aspect and the China aspect too. They could take advantage of that situation and I'm sure they have looked into that scenario for wargames purposes.

And what could India GAIN by being in Dhaka (air superiority wise), our role being primarily defensive? As unlikely as that is?

No one does anything without some objective, and what would that be - in this scenario?


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Yes they could and granted the Nuke aspect too - but you may be overlooking the Pakistan aspect and the China aspect too. They could take advantage of that situation and I'm sure they have looked into that scenario for wargames purposes.
> 
> And what could India GAIN by being in Dhaka (air superiority wise), our role being primarily defensive? As unlikely as that is?
> 
> No one does anything without some objective, and what would that be - in this scenario?



This was exactly my point.

The probability of conflict with India is nearly nil.

Whereas, the probability of conflict with Myanmar is substantially greater, though also admittedly quite small.

Regardless, as it pertains to the BAF, it has to be prepared to defend BD air space as well as support the army and navy.

The choice of type or types to be bought has to reflect these operational objectives and also be effective against the two potential adversaries while taking into account financial and political considerations.

Again, as for India. I can't imagine a scenario in which India and Bangladesh would be in physical conflict.

However, Bangladesh has to be ready for all eventualities.


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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Why would we use nukes against Bangladesh?....a country that lock stop condemns everything bad that happens to India? You are a client state thats spoken for....with a few piecemeal optics allowed to maintain some semblance of independence....which again is permitted to you (by the one that set you up as the country you are now)...not defined by you.
> 
> Next time actually shoot down a MAF airspace violator when they are shoving 2 million people into you....rather than just braying about it being the final final final time and shaking your fist....and then going silent when another violation happens and even more of your chittagong illegals shoved into your face.
> 
> Actually climb the first rung of the ladder, before you start making plans of how the view might look from the top of the cliff. BD 2030 is a joke. Cant wait for yet more failures and delays this year regarding actual acquisitions (as limited and puny as they are to begin with). BD military threads are always a whole lot of fun....100's of pages for nothing in the end.



BD showed India in 2001 who dominates in the infantry area. 
Poor Indians died in droves at the hands of the far better BD forces. Lol @ 400 Indian's being defeated by less than 20 BD military. 
BD Military has little respect for the skill of the Indian soldier(bar the Sikhs of course) but currently lags in modern fighters and medium range SAM systems. 
One MRSAM battery that was ordered will arrive this year and let us see about the fighter procurement in 2019.

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## VikingRaider

UKBengali said:


> BD showed India in 2001 who dominates in the infantry area.
> Poor Indians died in droves at the hands of the far better BD forces. Lol @ 400 Indian's being defeated by less than 20 BD military.
> BD Military has little respect for the skill of the Indian soldier(bar the Sikhs of course) but currently lags in modern fighters and medium range SAM systems.
> One MRSAM battery that was ordered will arrive this year and let us see about the fighter procurement in 2019.


@UKBengali ,it's clear from the discussion of some Bangladeshi gentlemen that the possibility of war between Bangladesh and India is almost nil , and it looks they think that India can any time reach in Dhaka if they want either by air superiority or by NUKE, but they are not entering because they have nothing to gain?

What is your opinion about it? Is our sovereignty and existence really dependant on Indian charity? Please write your opinion too! 

However if I got the wrong meaning of those messages ( of other gentlemen) then I am sorry, but if I got it correctly then I regret that I posted here to gain knowledge.


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## UKBengali

Atlas said:


> @UKBengali ,it's clear from the discussion of some Bangladeshi gentleman that the possibility of war between Bangladesh and India is almost nil .
> 
> It looks they think that India can any time reach in dhaka if they want either by air superiority or by NUKE, but they are not entering because they have nothing to gain?
> 
> What is your opinion about it? Is our sovereignity and existence really dependant on Indian charity?
> 
> Well if I got the wrong meaning of those messages ( of other gentlemen) then I am sorry, but if I got it correctly then I regret that I posted here to gain knowledge.



Well India can invade BD in it's current state but they will suffer massive casualties in the terrain of BD. BD military and population will bleed the Indian's dry.India is struggling to hold onto Kashmir and BD will be 10 times as worse.

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## VikingRaider

UKBengali said:


> Well India can invade BD in it's current state but they will suffer massive casualties in the terrain of BD. BD military and population will bleed the Indian's dry.India is struggling to hold onto Kashmir and BD will be 10 times as worse.


Yes that's the reason India will dare not to invade Bangladesh. And it's not hyderabad state surrounded by india with majority of populace who were fond of India.

Even if Hyderabad was not surrounded by India then it was not very easy for India to annex it. Like Pakistan also could not occupy Kashmir fully just after partition.

So in the case of Bangladesh ( full of 160 million population and most are hostile towards India) it's actually impossible. the reality is India (or any country ) must kill every people they find at there way to reach Dhaka and that's not possible for any country .

It's not AL and BNP , issue where peoples will not come to protest, *but it's about the issue of sovereignty, so in this case every people will be ready to die willingly before letting Indian or any other (foreign) army to reach to Dhaka, it's called true patriotism that is not related to any political party or bickering in an online forum by happy gentlemen *.

So defence is completely different than such imagination that, "India could anytime reach to Dhaka if they want, but they will not reach Dhaka because they have nothing to gain" . War is totally different and India will show know charity in this case. So for those gentlemen, no need to overestimate India too much ( no need to underestimate too)

*So surely we will remain safe and independent not because of Indian charity, but because we deserve the sovereignty. *


So still really India could reach in Dhaka even after all strong security barrier ( including willing human shield? I don't think so! ) then what is the fuss of purchasing defense equipment?

Surely we have a vision and that's why we are going to get better equipment, so that we can increase our security against any country.



UKBengali said:


> India is struggling to hold onto Kashmir and BD will be 10 times as worse.


That's why no question of holding it or not, because first they have to get it by breaking every single defense barrier ( including *volunteer* *human shield** ( **patriot Bangladeshi peoples**) *who will die happily, before letting enter any hostile (foreign) army in Dhaka to take the sovereignty of Mother land Bangladesh) and need to bear the expense of war, and the expense is unbelievable for them, and they can't bear it.

So the question of holding this territory should come( that if it's 10 or hundred times harder or not) only if they really have this ability to reach Dhaka .*USA* didn't win in *Vietnam* because every *Viet people was willing to be martyr against the hostility*, and what can India or others will do , while every Bangladeshi will be ready to die to protect the sovereignty of Bangladesh? They can actually do nothing .

Bangladesh believe in peace with others, but if anyone start invading with the intention to take our sovereignty from us, then perhaps they will know how hard this work will be!

So indeed we need better equipment that we can prevent any nation ( whom some of our compatriots over estimating!) from disturbing us , not only Miyanmer.

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## VikingRaider

Nilgiri said:


> Nuclear weapons have already been used against a country that did not possess them.


India also got NUKE and then Pakistan and yet it was not supported by superpowers . Later they maybe accepted,or just remained silent .


Nilgiri said:


> So Bangladesh has no excuse, start making them (according to your logic). Instead you signed the NPT....and have zilch on any basic know-how of the technology. That was "your" decision again obviously.


Exactly but with the assurance that no one will use NUKE against us I believe. So this is the reality, India or anyone can't use their NUKE on any non NUKE power, and still if it does and humanity is not destroyed from the world completely, then they ( who used NUKE in war in present day) will be disarmed from the NUKE.

Or others will break the agreement and chaos will start. That's why NUKE threat is not an option in present days warfare ( unless it's WW3) I believe .

And if world war 3 started, the world will not survive , and NUKE will have no use then ( post war) , and we all ( if anyone survive) have to make bamboo stick to fight and later we can move to superior technology ( sword, spear bow etc etc ).

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> BD showed India in 2001 who dominates in the infantry area.
> Poor Indians died in droves at the hands of the far better BD forces. Lol @ 400 Indian's being defeated by less than 20 BD military.
> BD Military has little respect for the skill of the Indian soldier(bar the Sikhs of course) but currently lags in modern fighters and medium range SAM systems.
> One MRSAM battery that was ordered will arrive this year and let us see about the fighter procurement in 2019.



LOL back to the fake numbers and "infantry". Since when is (unprepared and caught off guard) BSF "infantry"... or representative of infantry in the actual Indian military?

If you have no respect for anything else....then don't send your officers for training at our defence schools (where they get the baksheesh in the end to follow orders of her holiness SHW too). It is not our fault that what Bangladesh does is in stark dissonance to what you want it to do (since you are just one of those "sylhetis" that aren't even seen as proper Bangladeshi by them). Why you think Hasina dutifully makes announcement on supporting India on Kashmir...even before we call her? The same Hasina you supported to stay in power .....it gives me immense joy to see you so angry at that.

Anyway it was dealt with in pilkhana, and now your own people (who aren't coward radicalised sylhetis that live in ghettos in the country that commited an actual real famine genocide against Bengalis) know what the long term result is:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bsf-...rom-brahmanbaria-border.597653/#post-11110966

*These are just hogwash. After some huff and puff, BGB will arrange a welcome ceremony to accept the Rohingyas following an order from the ministry. Currently BGB has no works other than to exchange sweets with BSF, conducting flag lowering ceremony with BSF and assist the Awami govt. to manipulate the election. This illegitimate govt. will not do anything which may disturb the mind of it's principal international backer.*


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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> India also got NUKE and then Pakistan and yet it was not supported by superpowers . Later they maybe accepted,or just remained silent .



Neither (India or Pakistan) signed the NPT. Bangladesh did. You will never get nuclear weapons out of your own decision. It's really that simple. You don't have vast oil reserves like Iran to start a grey area either....or openly rebel and leave like North Korea. You are heavily reliant on RMG and manpower export...and are all around a docile people that don't want to start trouble.



Atlas said:


> Exactly but with the assurance that no one will use NUKE against us I believe.



Only China and India have explicit no first use policy. The rest all reserve the right to strike first against other countries, some are vague about non-nuclear power countries....others are clear that they are considered as potential targets (based on conventional forces) as well.

So no there is no ultimate assurance given by NPT that its signatories will not ever be subject to a nuclear attack in return.

In fact Pakistan for example has not signed the NPT, does not have NFU policy, and has hinted first strike could be used against purely conventional forces. Given the lingering issues it has with Bangladesh (and you with them)....there is not a 0% potential use of "assurance"/"guarantee" level.



Atlas said:


> So this is the reality, India or anyone can't use their NUKE on any non NUKE power, and still if it does and humanity is not destroyed from the world completely, then they ( who used NUKE in war in present day) will be disarmed from the NUKE.



India wont (explicit NFU). Other countries however can definitely use nuclear weapons against Bangladesh. They have reserved the right to. Take it up with them before signing things like NPT. But you didn't (for the first) and you did (for the latter). One of those countries even used nuclear weapons against a country that did not possess them (Japan). So there is precedent.

Why we are even talking about this is strange. Bangladesh and India will not be having any war and there is no real conventional deterrence Bangladesh will be building up since it enjoys good relations with India in first place (the whole point of engaging in soft power and good relations is you do not have to have large defence budget that soaks up money that could be used for economic and social development).



Atlas said:


> Or others will break the agreement and chaos will start. That's why NUKE threat is not an option in present days warfare ( unless it's WW3) I believe .



In the end it depends on how you value the piece of paper that countries have signed. How you value their credibility and their word. US for example does not value the word of Iran's (which is NPT member) that highly at all. So this already brings into question how words will be honoured during war time. 

Bangladesh would simply be wise to stay away from all of that as far as possible and get on with its economic growth (given your really low energy consumption, lack of credible institutions, heavy corruption and over reliance on just 2 things for economy for example). You are not really anyones target....hardly anyone even notices you (past those that have history with you in some way). 

Talking about India needing a "full scale" attack on Bangladesh (spawns of its loins in first place) to "defeat" it (with some vague pie in the sky future projection given BD long history of sketchy low piecemeal acquisition)...is frankly the stupidest conversation ever. We don't and never will. It is the loser conversation of a stupid sylheti....bitter that his people are most ignored among the ignored....the weakest among the weak....and the most cowardly among the cowards. Real Bengali (Bangal) people from Dhaka elite etc, know much better and are far more pragmatic and engage with basic sense of better realpolitik.



Atlas said:


> And if world war 3 started, the world will not survive , and NUKE will have no use then ( post war) , and we all ( if anyone survive) have to make bamboo stick to fight and later we can move to superior technology ( sword, spear bow etc etc ).



No one is starting ww3 over Bangladesh. Relax. No one even lifts a real finger now as it is for the Rohingya situation. Bangladesh is a docile, ignored, quiet part of the world (bar the occaisional flare up like Pilkhana or Gulshan)...and it will stay that way. Whatever you do acquire is for posturing with Myanmar (whom with 3 - 4 times less ppl, you still wont engage either)....because it stands no chance against India (it simply in the end is piecemeal aggressor training purposes for India, which is why China or anyone else gives nothing top of the line to BD for India to check out). That is not going to change.

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## VikingRaider

Nilgiri said:


> *Why we are even talking about this is strange*. Bangladesh and India will not be having any war and there is no real conventional deterrence


Indeed it's very much strange . I was simply talking with @UKBengali and others that what *aircraft* do we need actually and it led to third world war isn't it?

When we will strengthen our defence then surely we have to take something in consideration that we need to counter any country( including India, *if* necessary; but that surely does not mean that Bangladesh and India is going to fight with each others, that's simply what type of equipment we need to get for our force and nothing else! ) , and this is the way of defence force and it was a simple discussion and I am surprised that why it became an issue . Let's finish this discussion here because it totally lost it's track and that is unexpected! My question was @UKBengali and other Bangladeshi fellows were just to know their opinion of what airplane do we need to buy!!!
Thank you!
@Nilgiri

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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> just to know their opinion of what airplane do we need to buy!!!



I say just get more Mig 29 (i.e Mig 35)....simple, reliable, does the job great. You will get them fast and on time. You already are familiar with the training and weapons options too.

Everything else means you gotta start relatively new diplomacy/new logistics etc....which just plays into the govt corruption and delays and blah blah.

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> LOL back to the fake numbers and "infantry". Since when is (unprepared and caught off guard) BSF "infantry"... or representative of infantry in the actual Indian military?
> 
> If you have no respect for anything else....then don't send your officers for training at our defence schools (where they get the baksheesh in the end to follow orders of her holiness SHW too). It is not our fault that what Bangladesh does is in stark dissonance to what you want it to do (since you are just one of those "sylhetis" that aren't even seen as proper Bangladeshi by them). Why you think Hasina dutifully makes announcement on supporting India on Kashmir...even before we call her? The same Hasina you supported to stay in power .....it gives me immense joy to see you so angry at that.
> 
> Anyway it was dealt with in pilkhana, and now your own people (who aren't coward radicalised sylhetis that live in ghettos in the country that commited an actual real famine genocide against Bengalis) know what the long term result is:
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bsf-...rom-brahmanbaria-border.597653/#post-11110966
> 
> *These are just hogwash. After some huff and puff, BGB will arrange a welcome ceremony to accept the Rohingyas following an order from the ministry. Currently BGB has no works other than to exchange sweets with BSF, conducting flag lowering ceremony with BSF and assist the Awami govt. to manipulate the election. This illegitimate govt. will not do anything which may disturb the mind of it's principal international backer.*




Now using the words of a child who is barely out of university(if that) to back up your points?



Pathetic even by your standards!

Yes it was a planned attack of 400 BSF men against less than 20 BD guards. They got simply trashed and went back to India with their tail between their legs - the ones that survived that is. The BJP government of the time just took it like a champ.

Now let us get back to topic. We know that BAF will get the first MRSAM battery this year. Question is when the MRCA contract will be signed?

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Neither (India or Pakistan) signed the NPT. Bangladesh did. You will never get nuclear weapons out of your own decision. It's really that simple. You don't have vast oil reserves like Iran to start a grey area either....or openly rebel and leave like North Korea. You are heavily reliant on RMG and manpower export...and are all around a docile people that don't want to start trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Only China and India have explicit no first use policy. The rest all reserve the right to strike first against other countries, some are vague about non-nuclear power countries....others are clear that they are considered as potential targets (based on conventional forces) as well.
> 
> So no there is no ultimate assurance given by NPT that its signatories will not ever be subject to a nuclear attack in return.
> 
> In fact Pakistan for example has not signed the NPT, does not have NFU policy, and has hinted first strike could be used against purely conventional forces. Given the lingering issues it has with Bangladesh (and you with them)....there is not a 0% potential use of "assurance"/"guarantee" level.
> 
> 
> 
> India wont (explicit NFU). Other countries however can definitely use nuclear weapons against Bangladesh. They have reserved the right to. Take it up with them before signing things like NPT. But you didn't (for the first) and you did (for the latter). One of those countries even used nuclear weapons against a country that did not possess them (Japan). So there is precedent.
> 
> Why we are even talking about this is strange. Bangladesh and India will not be having any war and there is no real conventional deterrence Bangladesh will be building up since it enjoys good relations with India in first place (the whole point of engaging in soft power and good relations is you do not have to have large defence budget that soaks up money that could be used for economic and social development).
> 
> 
> 
> In the end it depends on how you value the piece of paper that countries have signed. How you value their credibility and their word. US for example does not value the word of Iran's (which is NPT member) that highly at all. So this already brings into question how words will be honoured during war time.
> 
> Bangladesh would simply be wise to stay away from all of that as far as possible and get on with its economic growth (given your really low energy consumption, lack of credible institutions, heavy corruption and over reliance on just 2 things for economy for example). You are not really anyones target....hardly anyone even notices you (past those that have history with you in some way).
> 
> Talking about India needing a "full scale" attack on Bangladesh (spawns of its loins in first place) to "defeat" it (with some vague pie in the sky future projection given BD long history of sketchy low piecemeal acquisition)...is frankly the stupidest conversation ever. We don't and never will. It is the loser conversation of a stupid sylheti....bitter that his people are most ignored among the ignored....the weakest among the weak....and the most cowardly among the cowards. Real Bengali (Bangal) people from Dhaka elite etc, know much better and are far more pragmatic and engage with basic sense of better realpolitik.
> 
> 
> 
> No one is starting ww3 over Bangladesh. Relax. No one even lifts a real finger now as it is for the Rohingya situation. Bangladesh is a docile, ignored, quiet part of the world (bar the occaisional flare up like Pilkhana or Gulshan)...and it will stay that way. Whatever you do acquire is for posturing with Myanmar (whom with 3 - 4 times less ppl, you still wont engage either)....because it stands no chance against India (it simply in the end is piecemeal aggressor training purposes for India, which is why China or anyone else gives nothing top of the line to BD for India to check out). That is not going to change.



Yup.

Pretty much this.

Now back to the BAF speculation!

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Yup.
> 
> Pretty much this.
> 
> Now back to the BAF speculation!



You got your horse on the Gripen I take it? Its probably the best one of the western options....along with F-16. But it comes at a price of course.

Personally I feel BD should have just negotiated one big mega deal with the Russians and achieved some economy of scale there. i.e get the nuclear power plant + Mig 35 + weapons package + servicing +any TOT/capacity dev and any other acquisitions (spread it out for duration of the nuclear deal loan capex etc)....and save probably significant money and time in the end...and get stuff rolling so we don't need another 1000 page thread about this and that speculation/confirmed/deal-breaker.

It could also have started interesting dynamic in (over time) influencing/hedging with Russia which is underlooked player compared to India,China, US tripartite in BD politics.


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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> You got your horse on the Gripen I take it? Its probably the best one of the western options....along with F-16. But it comes at a price of course.
> 
> Personally I feel BD should have just negotiated one big mega deal with the Russians and achieved some economy of scale there. i.e get the nuclear power plant + Mig 35 + weapons package + servicing +any TOT/capacity dev and any other acquisitions (spread it out for duration of the nuclear deal loan capex etc)....and save probably significant money and time in the end...and get stuff rolling so we don't need another 1000 page thread about this and that speculation/confirmed/deal-breaker.
> 
> It could also have started interesting dynamic in (over time) influencing/hedging with Russia which is underlooked player compared to India,China, US tripartite in BD politics.



Yea I favor buying the Gripen.

A couple of points.

You are totally correct in one of your previous posts regarding Bangladesh essentially being insignificant.

To me that is a blessing. 

Additionally, Bengalis are at their core a docile people. 

Not to say Bengalis won't fight hard when they need to fight. (Analagous to a cornered snake)

That being said, any weapons purchased are STRICTLY defensive.

I'm confident in saying Bangladesh has no designs on its neighbors.

The situation is somewhat reminicient of Sweden.

The Gripen is tailor made for a country like Bangaldesh.

It's short-field performance will come in handy during conflict when BD's few airfields may be out of commision.

Its technologically advanced.

Its the most affordable Western option. Both in up front costs and operating costs.

Also it would allow Bangladesh to mature in its capabilities.

Paired with Eireye and Giraffe as @Bilal Khan (Quwa) suggested earlier, it is MORE than sufficient to protect Bangladesh from any threat from Myanmar.

Additionally, its capable of maritime strike with its RBS-15.

So there is air defence of the homeland, as well as support for the army and navy.

Also importantly, it potentially upgrades Bangladesh's capabilities and opens the door for real contributions in exercises with foreign air arms.

Is buying the Gripen really all that more expensive than buying the Mig-35? (Given the inherent cost savings of the Mig-29 support being in place)

If I was running the BAF, I would buy an eventual 2 squadrons worth. Numbering 32 examples.

For the balance, I would try to buy the J-10CE if available.

If not, I would approach China for a BAF specific FC-1 to fill out the air force worth another 2 -3 squadrons. Numbering 32 to 48 aircraft.

Also important is the infrastructure, support systems as well as adequate training to effective utilize the equipment's capabilities.

Honestly, more than the costs of the equipment, it concerns me more the BAF's ability to absorb such platforms effectively and use it to its maximum effect.

Gripen is quite a jump from F-7 and early Mig-29s. (Although obviously other countries have made that leap. i.e. Czech Republic and Hungary.)

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Yea I favor buying the Gripen.
> 
> A couple of points.
> 
> You are totally correct in one of your previous posts regarding Bangladesh essentially being insignificant.
> 
> To me that is a blessing.
> 
> Additionally, Bengalis are at their core a docile people.
> 
> Not to say Bengalis won't fight hard when they need to fight. (Analagous to a cornered snake)
> 
> That being said, any weapons purchased are STRICTLY defensive.
> 
> I'm confident in saying Bangladesh has no designs on its neighbors.
> 
> The situation is somewhat reminicient of Sweden.
> 
> The Gripen is tailor made for a country like Bangaldesh.
> 
> It's short-field performance will come in handy during conflict when BD's few airfields may be out of commision.
> 
> Its technologically advanced.
> 
> Its the most affordable Western option. Both in up front costs and operating costs.
> 
> Also it would allow Bangladesh to mature in its capabilities.
> 
> Paired with Eireye and Giraffe as @Bilal Khan (Quwa), it is MORE than sufficient to protect Bangladesh from any threat from Myanmar.
> 
> Additionally, its capable of maritime strike with its RBS-15.
> 
> So there is air defence of the homeland, as well as support for the army and navy.
> 
> Also importantly, it potentially upgrades Bangladesh's capabilities and opens the door for real contributions in exercises with foreign air arms.
> 
> Is buying the Gripen really all that more expensive than buying the Mig-35? (Given the inherent cost savings of the Mig-29 support being in place)
> 
> If I was running the BAF, I would buy an eventual 2 squadrons worth. Numbering 32 examples.
> 
> For the balance, I would try to buy the J-10CE if available.
> 
> If not, I would approach China for a BAF specific FC-1 to fill out the air force worth another 2 -3 squadrons. Numbering 32 to 48 aircraft.
> 
> Also important is the infrastructure, support systems as well as adequate training to effective utilize the equipment's capabilities.
> 
> Honestly, more than the costs of the equipment, it concerns me more the BAF's ability to absorb such platforms effectively and use it to its maximum effect.
> 
> Gripen is quite a jump from F-7 and early Mig-29s. (Although obviously other countries have made that leap. i.e. Czech Republic and Hungary.)



Thanks. What is the timeframe you see where a firm decision will be made....and how long will the acquisition + implementation be after it?

Will it be this year? (for the decision)?


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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Thanks. What is the timeframe you see where a firm decision will be made....and how long will the acquisition + implementation be after it?
> 
> Will it be this year? (for the decision)?



I have no idea man.

I'm just a part-time keyboard warrior in Texas.

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Is buying the Gripen really all that more expensive than buying the Mig-35? (Given the inherent cost savings of the Mig-29 support being in place)



I would say now its not really that much more expensive (than Mig 35) given BD did not negotiate combined package with the (high cost) nuclear power plant deal with Russia....so did not benefit from any cost saving by doing that.

So yeah Gripen is a viable concept to go for given you also get fairly higher capacity/capability in the platform compared to Mig 35...given superior western avionics, integration and weapon packages....and of course the total life cycle costs (esp when normalised to flight hours available).

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> I would say now its not really that much more expensive (than Mig 35) given BD did not negotiate combined package with the (high cost) nuclear power plant deal with Russia....so did not benefit from any cost saving by doing that.
> 
> So yeah Gripen is a viable concept to go for given you also get fairly higher capacity/capability in the platform compared to Mig 35...given superior western avionics, integration and weapon packages....and of course the total life cycle costs (esp when normalised to flight hours available).



Exactly.

Plus it confers a host of political advantages going forward in my opinion.

But as others have said, the main barrier to any Gripen purchase is probably lack of interest or vision from Bangladesh.

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## Michael Corleone

Wow I lose my Apple ID and everything with it and this forum becomes alive 

Well well. As for building a formidable force against India by 2030, I would first figure building one against Burma. Dismal state... :/

As for India invading Bangladesh, never happening but for arguments sake bd and India is at war, India invaded... it would be like castrating ones own genitalia... droves of population will move into India and there’s no fighting that amount of Bengali in uncontrolled mob xD

As for fighter purchases. I don’t think bd should invest in eurofighter (which I think it still cant afford, or dream to), platforms like Gripen should come with tot and manufacturing because let’s face it, sixth gen fighters are being developed, not many countries have fifth gen... most are skipping to develop the next gen... in order to be state of the art, a cost effective option of j10/ mig 35 or Gripen will do for the next 30 years... meanwhile local manufacturing capabilities should be increased and a co development project should be sought like the Turkish or British or the Chinese next gen designs... maybe Russian even now that India isn’t interested in those... what I’m trying to say is major purchases now would be a stupid move when all countries have effectively started work on successors of current modern fighters.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Wow I lose my Apple ID and everything with it and this forum becomes alive
> 
> Well well. As for building a formidable force against India by 2030, I would first figure building one against Burma. Dismal state... :/
> 
> As for India invading Bangladesh, never happening but for arguments sake bd and India is at war, India invaded... it would be like castrating ones own genitalia... droves of population will move into India and there’s no fighting that amount of Bengali in uncontrolled mob xD
> 
> As for fighter purchases. I don’t think bd should invest in eurofighter (which I think it still cant afford, or dream to), platforms like Gripen should come with tot and manufacturing because let’s face it, sixth gen fighters are being developed, not many countries have fifth gen... most are skipping to develop the next gen... in order to be state of the art, a cost effective option of j10/ mig 35 or Gripen will do for the next 30 years... meanwhile local manufacturing capabilities should be increased and a co development project should be sought like the Turkish or British or the Chinese next gen designs... maybe Russian even now that India isn’t interested in those... what I’m trying to say is major purchases now would be a stupid move when all countries have effectively started work on successors of current modern fighters.



This is all conjecture of course, but I think the time period between major advancements in fighter aircraft are going to increase. Analagous to Moore's Law with CPUs.

Resulting in platforms hanging around in some form for longer.

BAF is going from the "souped-up" F-7 era to the "next generation".

Lets master THAT jump first.

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## VikingRaider

https://aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/ So if we need to choose between Gripen and Mig 35 then gripen should be the better choice I think ?this link suggest that Gripen flying cost is much lower than mig , so why even think of Russian stuff if we can get European stuff at lower flying cost ? @Avicenna , @Nilgiri @UKBengali . I seriously prefer western stuffs to Russian .

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## AMG_12

Atlas said:


> https://aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/ So if we need to choose between Gripen and Mig 35 then gripen should be the better choice I think ?this link suggest that Gripen flying cost is much lower than mig , so why even think of Russian stuff if we can get European stuff at lower flying cost ? @Avicenna , @Nilgiri @UKBengali . I seriously prefer western stuffs to Russian .


Both are different class of fighters with different roles, it's not a fair comparison IMO.

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## LKJ86

Atlas said:


> https://aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/ So if we need to choose between Gripen and Mig 35 then gripen should be the better choice I think ?this link suggest that Gripen flying cost is much lower than mig , so why even think of Russian stuff if we can get European stuff at lower flying cost ? @Avicenna , @Nilgiri @UKBengali . I seriously prefer western stuffs to Russian .


Which version of Gripen?

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## VikingRaider

LKJ86 said:


> Which version of Gripen?


This version in the link !



Game.Invade said:


> Both are different class of fighters with different roles, it's not a fair comparison IMO.


Well actually I want to discuss so that I can learn something . I have no good idea about military stuffs tbh. Finally I am convinced by @UKBengali logic that Gripen should be our goal . And I also agree with him . But others opinions are more than welcome too . Thanks guys .


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## AMG_12

Atlas said:


> This version in the link !
> 
> 
> Well actually I want to discuss so that I can learn something . I have no good idea about military stuffs tbh.


The newer version of Gripen & MIG both qualify as 4++ generation fighters. MIGs have a longer range and is a good option for long range strike missions, Gripen has a short range but is supplemented by superior avionics and standoff weapons. Overall depends on the requirements of BAF.

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## LKJ86

Atlas said:


> This version in the link !


Gripen-E?
Really expensive...

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## VikingRaider

LKJ86 said:


> Gripen-E?
> Really expensive...


Please provide the real cost calculation if you have this . I mean unit cost , flying cost, maintenance cost of Gripen E so that it can be compared to other European planes and also with mig 35.


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## Avisheik

Didnt bd open a tender for 8 jets from russia last year? I thought we would be getting su 30 or mig 35


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## LKJ86

Atlas said:


> Please provide the real cost calculation if you have this . I mean unit cost , flying cost, maintenance cost of Gripen E so that it can be compared to other European planes and also with mig 35.


I mean it is too expensive to that size of fighter aircrafts.
If Bangladesh can afford Gripen-E, why not consider Typhoon, or Rafale?

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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> I mean it is too expensive to that size of fighter aircrafts.
> If Bangladesh can afford Gripen-E, why not consider Typhoon, or Rafale?



Dude what are you smoking? Gripen E is 2/3rd the cost of Typhoon and Rafale and far cheaper to operate. It is single engined after all.

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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> I mean it is too expensive to that size of fighter aircrafts.
> If Bangladesh can afford Gripen-E, why not consider Typhoon, or Rafale?



Typhoon and Rafale are WAY too expensive for BD.

Actually this talk about the Gripen itself is really pushing it as well but it is a far more realistic option.

Gripen C with AESA is reasonable.

It would also be mutually beneficial for BD and China if J-10CE is bought by BD.

It’s a shame J-10 hasn’t been exported yet.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Typhoon and Rafale are WAY too expensive for BD.
> 
> Actually this talk about the Gripen itself is really pushing it as well but it is a far more realistic option.
> 
> Gripen C with AESA is reasonable.
> 
> It would also be mutually beneficial for BD and China if J-10CE is bought by BD.
> 
> It’s a shame J-10 hasn’t been exported yet.



Gripen E has far more payload and so can be used far more effectively in maritime strike role than Gripen C. 

Look, if BD can afford Russian or Chinese fighters that cost massive amounts to operate it can afford Gripen E, which despite higher unit and weapon costs, costs a fraction to operate.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Gripen E has far more payload and so can be used far more effectively in maritime strike role than Gripen C.
> 
> Look, if BD can afford Russian or Chinese fighters that cost massive amounts to operate it can afford Gripen E, which despite higher unit and weapon costs, costs a fraction to operate.



Agreed.

Hopefully someone from BAF is reading all this.


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## VikingRaider

Avicenna said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Hopefully someone from BAF is reading all this.


But why BAF ( or any airforce) will accept the advise of civilians ( if you and @UKBengali are not civilians but military related person then that's different case ) , since they ( military ) are expert on this subject.

It's like a doctor must not take advice from others( who are not doctors), neither an engineer will take advice from any amateur person when he design something right?

What is your comment on this? @Avicenna.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Typhoon and Rafale are WAY too expensive for BD.
> 
> Actually this talk about the Gripen itself is really pushing it as well but it is a far more realistic option.
> 
> Gripen C with AESA is reasonable.
> 
> It would also be mutually beneficial for BD and China if J-10CE is bought by BD.
> 
> It’s a shame J-10 hasn’t been exported yet.


I will compare SU-35 and Typhoon and see how they match up in cost per unit with long term maintenance. Gripen is a complete different class of aircraft. Our air force will pick the aircraft based on the role they are seeking, not based on foes.
As far as I remember BAF sent recommendation for Typhoon and SU-35/30 for maritime strike fighter craft to PM.
For the lighter class we should pick between J-10 or Gripen. Thats the fair comparison.
I am not worried about the budget though. We are not living in 90's anymore. You got to pay what you got to pay

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## Avicenna

Atlas said:


> But why BAF ( or any airforce) will accept the advise of civilians ( if you and @UKBengali are not civilians but military related person then that's different case ) , since they ( military ) are expert on this subject.
> 
> It's like a doctor must not take advice from others( who are not doctors), neither an engineer will take advice from any amateur person when he design something right?
> 
> What is your comment on this? @Avicenna.



Haha. I was only half kidding.

Of course they are the experts in that they have much more experience (obviously) and are privy to more knowledge regarding their operational needs and factors in making the decision of what type.

However, its never bad to hear ideas.

At worst, it does no harm.

At best case, it may offer a new perspective that you were not seeing.

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## Nilgiri

Atlas said:


> https://aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/ So if we need to choose between Gripen and Mig 35 then gripen should be the better choice I think ?this link suggest that Gripen flying cost is much lower than mig , so why even think of Russian stuff if we can get European stuff at lower flying cost ? @Avicenna , @Nilgiri @UKBengali . I seriously prefer western stuffs to Russian .



Well Mig 35 the specific advantages (over gripen) is its 2 engines (which is not a small thing), weapons array (similar to what BD uses already and is comfortable with in doctrine/training etc) and also general training/use/role (given Mig 29 in use with BAF already). i.e you already have the contacts and soft power to some degree invested with Russia given Mig 29 (i.e you will just pop in more neatly and quickly and expand/scale relevantly to the newer iteration of Mig 29 that is Mig 35 essentially).

For Gripen or F-16 etc, BD will have to explore a few other matters much more compared to Mig 35 to really get the most out of them for the extra capital cost and also to really make use of their lower flight hour operating costs. i.e BD will have to be more commited to doing things "new" and the cost and time that requires too (for changing of attitude and training regimens and also creating and investing into soft power links for training with Sweden + US etc).

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Well Mig 35 the specific advantages (over gripen) is its 2 engines (which is not a small thing), weapons array (similar to what BD uses already and is comfortable with in doctrine/training etc) and also general training/use/role (given Mig 29 in use with BAF already). i.e you already have the contacts and soft power to some degree invested with Russia given Mig 29 (i.e you will just pop in more neatly and quickly and expand/scale relevantly to the newer iteration of Mig 29 that is Mig 35 essentially).
> 
> For Gripen or F-16 etc, BD will have to explore a few other matters much more compared to Mig 35 to really get the most out of them for the extra capital cost and also to really make use of their lower flight hour operating costs. i.e BD will have to be more commited to doing things "new" and the cost and time that requires too (for changing of attitude and training regimens and also creating and investing into soft power links for training with Sweden + US etc).



For Bangladesh's purposes, I don't see how Russia offers much of anything politically.

Better to look to the West. i.e. US and Europe.

In regards to the Mig-35, two engines confer an advantage sure. Especially for maritime operations theoretically.

However, I assume operating costs will be much higher than the Gripen.

Also, I'd rather see Bangladesh embrace Western tactics over Russian ones.

Which requires of course obtaining the hardware needed to implement them. i.e. aircraft, munitions, support.

The cost will be greater up front for sure.

But I think of it as an upfront investment which hopefully will pay dividends going forward.

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## Imran Khan

Nilgiri said:


> Well Mig 35 the specific advantages (over gripen) is its 2 engines (which is not a small thing), weapons array (similar to what BD uses already and is comfortable with in doctrine/training etc) and also general training/use/role (given Mig 29 in use with BAF already). i.e you already have the contacts and soft power to some degree invested with Russia given Mig 29 (i.e you will just pop in more neatly and quickly and expand/scale relevantly to the newer iteration of Mig 29 that is Mig 35 essentially).
> 
> For Gripen or F-16 etc, BD will have to explore a few other matters much more compared to Mig 35 to really get the most out of them for the extra capital cost and also to really make use of their lower flight hour operating costs. i.e BD will have to be more commited to doing things "new" and the cost and time that requires too (for changing of attitude and training regimens and also creating and investing into soft power links for training with Sweden + US etc).


you guys are still discussing it ? dont you guys feel bor ? its been now 10 years this talk is on going here . its far better if you guys discuss current capabilities of BAF rather then gripen mig-35 f-16 f-18 EU fighter rafale j-10 here . even i click this thread after 3 or 5 years i see same talks going on here

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> you guys are still discussing it ? dont you guys feel bor ? its been now 10 years this talk is on going here . its far better if you guys discuss current capabilities of BAF rather then gripen mig-35 f-16 f-18 EU fighter rafale j-10 here . even i click this thread after 3 or 5 years i see same talks going on here



It's a discussion forum pal.

That's what we do here.....discuss.

The fact is BAF IS looking for a new fighter.

What its going to be is of course up for discussion/speculation.

In my opinion, the selection of the new fighter is of monumental significance for the BAF.

It sets up the next 40 years in my opinion.

Historically, if you look back BAF was actually interested in F-16 way back in 1999.

Of course the US laughed at BD.

Thats when the Mig-29s were bought as a result of US refusal to supply the F-16.

Things have changed somewhat.

US hardware may in fact be an option. Or at the very least from other Western nations.

Also the economy is certainly in better shape in 2019 than in 1999.

Gripen is DEFINITELY in the realm of possibilities.

The only problem is the apparent tunnel vision by the BAF into looking at only Russian and Chinese options.

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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Its a discussion forum pal.
> 
> Thats what we do here.....discuss.
> 
> The fact is BAF IS looking for a new fighter.
> 
> What its going to be is of course up for discussion/speculation.


but my dear sir its like 3rd batch of BD members doint it since 2006 and we see nothing on ground . i will happily join it if it was real current air force debate . but any how you are right please carry-on guys

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> but my dear sir its like 3rd batch of BD members doint it since 2006 and we see nothing on ground . i will happily join it if it was real current air force debate . but any how you are right please carry-on guys



Yea you're correct. 

Much inaction.

Oh well.

All we can do is talk about it here and wait.

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## Nilgiri

Imran Khan said:


> you guys are still discussing it ? dont you guys feel bor ? its been now 10 years this talk is on going here . its far better if you guys discuss current capabilities of BAF rather then gripen mig-35 f-16 f-18 EU fighter rafale j-10 here . even i click this thread after 3 or 5 years i see same talks going on here



I'm not seriously discussing. I just like to see what few reasonable BD members think on few issues . Rest I will watch and see.


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Yea you're correct.
> 
> Much inaction.
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> All we can do is talk about it here and wait.


dont you guys have military professionals on defense forums in BD sir . i mean real officals not fanboys ? whom can give hints whats going on ?


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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> dont you guys have military professionals on defense forums in BD sir . i mean real officals not fanboys ? whom can give hints whats going on ?



I have no idea.


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## Imran Khan

Nilgiri said:


> I'm not seriously discussing. I just like to see what few reasonable BD members think on few issues . Rest I will watch and see.


it was early days i still remember in 2007-08-09 we have some BD members here they always discuss about new fighters . then i did not visit BD section for years again when i checked in 2012-13 discuss was same members were changed . then i became busy in life and recently few months ago i again visited BD section things are same . it will far better if they talk about current SQNS weapons startgies and fighters .its my 2 cent while every human is free to discuss its a forum as our friend @Avicenna said

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> it was early days i still remember in 2007-08-09 we have some BD members here they always discuss about new fighters . then i did not visit BD section for years again when i checked in 2012-13 discuss was same members were changed . then i became busy in life and recently few months ago i again visited BD section things are same . it will far better if they talk about current SQNS weapons startgies and fighters .its my 2 cent while every human is free to discuss its a forum as our friend @Avicenna said



I think BAF had some F-7MB and A-5 in the late 90's as well as some residual J-6.

Of course there was the Mig-29 purchase in the late 90's-early 2000's as well.

Instead of the planned 16, BAF was left with only 8.

The 2006 F-7BG purchase (16) and subsequent 2013 F-7BGI (16) purchase were labeled as "stop-gap".

However this allowed BAF to retire its J-6 and A-5 completely.

Now it has its 8 Fulcrums and 31 F-7BG and BGI as well as a few F-7MB left.

Apparently from official sources BAF is looking for 8 "MRCA" and 4 options.

A tender was issued in 2017? which essentially painted a picture for either a Fulcrum or Flanker.

That's where we are at now.

Something is coming. 

Anybody's guess as to what it is.

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## Nilgiri

Imran Khan said:


> it was early days i still remember in 2007-08-09 we have some BD members here they always discuss about new fighters . then i did not visit BD section for years again when i checked in 2012-13 discuss was same members were changed . then i became busy in life and recently few months ago i again visited BD section things are same . it will far better if they talk about current SQNS weapons startgies and fighters .its my 2 cent while every human is free to discuss its a forum as our friend @Avicenna said



I like Bangladeshis/Bengalis. You have a weekend lunch/dinner with them at their place...and they keep insisting you to stay after etc. You say your goodbyes after that, and somehow a way is found for the visit to be extended past even that. Then you do 2nd and 3rd goodbye etc.. and finally you can leave at some point....but only when you have fully committed/assured to drop by again...and even then they can find way to reel you back in for more extended talk and tea if you aren't careful and decisive.  

So such thing is reflected in these certain conversation topics  They are hospitable good people deep down (to a fault almost) once you have made a friendship/acquaintance with them (or helped them out with some small thing in your opinion, but not theirs)..... that like to have a good extended banter or drawn out hosting for those that will indulge them. Thankfully their food is quite top notch.

@Joe Shearer @scorpionx @Tanveer666 @bluesky @Mage @itsanufy @dray / Rain Man @Tshering22 @anant_s @VCheng

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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> I think BAF had some F-7MB and A-5 in the late 90's as well as some residual J-6.
> 
> Of course there was the Mig-29 purchase in the late 90's-early 2000's as well.
> 
> Instead of the planned 16, BAF was left with only 8.
> 
> The 2006 F-7BG purchase (16) and subsequent 2013 F-7BGI (16) purchase were labeled as "stop-gap".
> 
> However this allowed BAF to retire its J-6 and A-5 completely.
> 
> Now it has its 8 Fulcrums and 31 F-7BG and BGI as well as a few F-7MB left.
> 
> Apparently from official sources BAF is looking for 8 "MRCA" and 4 options.
> 
> A tender was issued in 2017? which essentially painted a picture for either a Fulcrum or Flanker.
> 
> That's where we are at now.
> 
> Something is coming.
> 
> Anybody's guess as to what it is.


in this case su-30 will be option as its already handful in india and india can help you guys for training support and maintenance too .its simple for me . BD should buy SU-30 10 years ago along with india .as i know india is helping some other regional countries to maintain su-30s too

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## Joe Shearer

Nilgiri said:


> I like Bangladeshis/Bengalis. You have a weekend lunch/dinner with them at their place...and they keep insisting you to stay after etc. You say your goodbyes after that, and somehow a way is found for the visit to be extended past even that. Then you do 2nd and 3rd goodbye etc.. and finally you can leave at some point....but only when you have fully committed/assured to drop by again...and even then they can find way to reel you back in for more extended talk and tea if you aren't careful and decisive.
> 
> So such thing is reflected in these certain conversation topics  They are hospitable good people deep down (to a fault almost) once you have made a friendship/acquaintance with them (or helped them out with some small thing in your opinion, but not theirs)..... that like to have a good extended banter or drawn out hosting for those that will indulge them. Thankfully their food is quite top notch.
> 
> @Joe Shearer @scorpionx @Tanveer666 @bluesky @Mage @itsanufy @dray / Rain Man @Tshering22 @anant_s @VCheng



Not a bad summing up!

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## monitor

One more! 
#BAF #FT7BG #A2Arender #composite #creativeaviation #aviationart #canonaviation






18

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## Bengal Tiger 71

2009 to 2019 this ten year BD gets a govt. who is still in power. then why they did not buy at least a sqd of genuine fighter jet. pls don't say any body give example of f7. really this is very ridiculous in 1999 this govt was wanted to buy f16 now after the ten years what they bought for BAF?


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## Al-zakir

Recently, we have witnessed JF-17 in action. Magnificent killer on the air. BD should have acquired them when they had offer on the table. It’s probably too late now. 

I don’t know why Bd lean toward India over Pakistan. Pakistan would have armed Bd to teeth.

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## Avicenna

Al-zakir said:


> Recently, we have witnessed JF-17 in action. Magnificent killer on the air. BD should have acquired them when they had offer on the table. It’s probably too late now.
> 
> I don’t know why Bd lean toward India over Pakistan. Pakistan would have armed Bd to teeth.



I don't think its too late.

BD can always go the China route and get a BAF specific version of FC-1.

That would only make the most sense out of all the options.

Glad to see Thunder perform well.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I don't think its too late.
> 
> BD can always go the China route and get a BAF specific version of FC-1.
> 
> That would only make the most sense out of all the options.
> 
> Glad to see Thunder perform well.



It is only proven to shot down Mig-21.

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## ~Phoenix~

Yakolev 130 of BAF's 25th Sqn

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> I don't think its too late.
> 
> BD can always go the China route and get a BAF specific version of FC-1.
> 
> That would only make the most sense out of all the options.
> 
> Glad to see Thunder perform well.


Instead of going for FC-1, BD should opt for a complete different aircraft jointly developed by BD with some foreign partner. In the meantime buy J-10 as front line fighter.
As BD has no problem in buying Engine or Avionics from east or west, there should not be any problem for BD engineers to design a air frame... may be we could start with low tech and then go up the ladder.



~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 544218
> 
> Yakolev 130 of BAF's 25th Sqn


Please stop posting posters all the time. What purpose does it serve? Its not a kindergarten school.


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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Instead of going for FC-1, BD should opt for a complete different aircraft jointly developed by BD with some foreign partner. In the meantime buy J-10 as front line fighter.
> As BD has no problem in buying Engine or Avionics from east or west, there should not be any problem for BD engineers to design a air frame... may be we could start with low tech and then go up the ladder.
> 
> 
> Please stop posting posters all the time. What purpose does it serve? Its not a kindergarten school.



BD is in no position to develop anything.

Just buy something off the shelf and develop a real tactical capability first.

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## thunderr

UKBengali said:


> It is only proven to shot down Mig-21.



Naah you are a liar ! Don't be an indian


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## Deino

thunderr said:


> Naah you are a liar ! Don't be an indian



Nope ... all "facts" and videos so far presented as proof that a Su-30MKI was chased and later downed were later proven wrong. As such You must admit, regardless all claims and many reports the so far only proven kill was that MiG-21 Bision. 
Otherwise the Su-30MKI is as much unconfirmed as the F-16 claimed by India.

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## Species

TopCat said:


> Instead of going for FC-1, BD should opt for a complete different aircraft jointly developed by BD with some foreign partner. In the meantime buy J-10 as front line fighter.
> As BD has no problem in buying Engine or Avionics from east or west, there should not be any problem for BD engineers to design a air frame... may be we could start with low tech and then go up the ladder.



That should be the way forward and I hope BAF is also thinking that way. Modernization of BAC and the establishment of the Aviation and Aerospace university are pointing at it.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> BD is in no position to develop anything.
> 
> Just buy something off the shelf and develop a real tactical capability first.



While I agree - one has to start for change somewhere.....

I don't believe what we have today is either ideal or self-sufficient. If you start getting indigenous capability at 10% in any large arms purchase that is still a start of something. Then you can ramp up slowly - given budget and resources. No nation got to 100% in one day. Just dismissing this away is the wrong approach. 

Nations one tenth our size are efficient producers of multiple arms lines (ex: Belorussian Republic). Not to speak of Romania, Serbia, Bosnia etc. Hungary is however in another league.

A nation of hundred and sixty million cannot remain beholden to outside sources forever for every minor arms requirement, it is neither sustainable nor practical. We already possess the talent for being self-sufficient in this, all that is required is to manage and harness it. Or we can grow talent, given our growing budget. It is simply that the resolve at the top level for the political guts is absent.

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## mb444

TopCat said:


> Instead of going for FC-1, BD should opt for a complete different aircraft jointly developed by BD with some foreign partner. In the meantime buy J-10 as front line fighter.
> As BD has no problem in buying Engine or Avionics from east or west, there should not be any problem for BD engineers to design a air frame... may be we could start with low tech and then go up the ladder.
> 
> 
> Please stop posting posters all the time. What purpose does it serve? Its not a kindergarten school.



I belive BD is aiming at building a basic trainer following establishment or upgrading of overhauling facilities supporting migs, F7s and Yaks. 

The latter work is complete... one hopes trainer work has commenced...



Bilal9 said:


> Nations one tenth our size are efficient producers of multiple arms lines (ex: Belorussian Republic). Not to speak of Romania, Serbia, Bosnia etc. Hungary is however in another league.



Whilst i agree with your posts ... the arms industry in each of these countries were put there by the russians as a means of extending the logistics networks during the cold war. Each country have carried on. None of them have developed anything new. BD needs to aim higher these countries.

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> While I agree - one has to start for change somewhere.....
> 
> I don't believe what we have today is either ideal or self-sufficient. If you start getting indigenous capability at 10% in any large arms purchase that is still a start of something. Then you can ramp up slowly - given budget and resources. No nation got to 100% in one day. Just dismissing this away is the wrong approach.
> 
> Nations one tenth our size are efficient producers of multiple arms lines (ex: Belorussian Republic). Not to speak of Romania, Serbia, Bosnia etc. Hungary is however in another league.
> 
> A nation of hundred and sixty million cannot remain beholden to outside sources forever for every minor arms requirement, it is neither sustainable nor practical. We already possess the talent for being self-sufficient in this, all that is required is to manage and harness it. Or we can grow talent, given our growing budget. It is simply that the resolve at the top level for the political guts is absent.



Yea I agree.

The talent is there. 

Alot of the Bengali folks in the US that I have met are indicative of that.

But all I'm trying to say is I want the BD military to develop teeth.

Real capability.

Specifically the BAF.

Invest the lion's share of limited resources into that first.

Then by all means build what needs to be built to get indiginization underway.

BD has potential.

But we got alot of things to fix first to tap that.

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## Michael Corleone

well, Khan says that news on those fighters will be announced this month.... let's see

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> well, Khan says that news on those fighters will be announced this month.... let's see




I so hope this is true.

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## ziaulislam

best option is gripen but sanctions can loom and j10a ...
a localized version FC1 would have been perfect but relationships with pakistan mean that it will not happen

if bangladesh wants less than 20 jets it should go for cost effective gripen
if it wants 60-80 jets it should got for j10 vs fc1

in my opinion no need for any jets, Bangladesh has good relationship with everyone and Myanmar will not mess with Bangladesh with china and india support


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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> best option is gripen but sanctions can loom and j10a ...
> a localized version FC1 would have been perfect but relationships with pakistan mean that it will not happen
> 
> if bangladesh wants less than 20 jets it should go for cost effective gripen
> if it wants 60-80 jets it should got for j10 vs fc1
> 
> in my opinion no need for any jets, Bangladesh has good relationship with everyone and Myanmar will not mess with Bangladesh with china and india support



Disagree with the last part.

I used to be a peacenik in regards to BD military.

No more.

BD has to grow up.

InshAllah, I hope the impending fighter choice is a good one.


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## ~Phoenix~

TopCat said:


> Please stop posting posters all the time. What purpose does it serve? Its not a kindergarten school.



So I post a picture of a jet and you're saying that this should be on a kindergarten school? OK and what should be on here then? Your bla bla discussions about what jet we should get and whatsoever? As if you know more than the top officials on what we should get? Theres a reason why they're the top officials deciding how our armed forces would be improved and you're still a umm.. Keyboard war planner. 

Please stop yanking about what jets we are gonna get or and future bla bla bla stuff. This is getting boring hearing the same stuff for years. Its not as if we're getting anything anytime soon. 

Tumio jano amio jani baaltao aibona.

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## Signalian

Islamabad gave several squadrons of F-6 fighter aircraft as a gift to the Bangladeshi air force in the late 1980s although most of these were destroyed in a cyclonic storm which hit coastal Bangladesh in 1991.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2158900.stm


This is something new for me.

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## Avicenna

Signalian said:


> Islamabad gave several squadrons of F-6 fighter aircraft as a gift to the Bangladeshi air force in the late 1980s although most of these were destroyed in a cyclonic storm which hit coastal Bangladesh in 1991.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2158900.stm
> 
> 
> This is something new for me.



Yea i was a little kid but I remember that.


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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> best option is gripen but sanctions can loom and j10a ...
> a localized version FC1 would have been perfect but relationships with pakistan mean that it will not happen
> 
> if bangladesh wants less than 20 jets it should go for cost effective gripen
> if it wants 60-80 jets it should got for j10 vs fc1
> 
> in my opinion no need for any jets, Bangladesh has good relationship with everyone and Myanmar will not mess with Bangladesh with china and india support


china can sell fc1... this is why pakistan couldn't stop burmese sell of fc1\
china will never come to fight someone else's war... india intends to keep us in their shadow...



Signalian said:


> Islamabad gave several squadrons of F-6 fighter aircraft as a gift to the Bangladeshi air force in the late 1980s although most of these were destroyed in a cyclonic storm which hit coastal Bangladesh in 1991.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2158900.stm
> 
> 
> This is something new for me.


has been discussed here... most of them were still in crates in cox's bazar... about 100 of them, totally destroyed along with mi series helicopters etc...bad timing, weather forecast? idk but the airforce is struggling since

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## ziaulislam

Michael Corleone said:


> china can sell fc1... this is why pakistan couldn't stop burmese sell of fc1\
> china will never come to fight someone else's war... india intends to keep us in their shadow...
> 
> 
> has been discussed here... most of them were still in crates in cox's bazar... about 100 of them, totally destroyed along with mi series helicopters etc...bad timing, weather forecast? idk but the airforce is struggling since



PAKISTAN HAS NO CONCERNS OF SELLING FC 1 TO ANYONE INCLUDING INDIA..
avionics are separate for pakistani jets, and each customers can get their own choice of western, hybrid, or pure Chinese avionics, the Burmese air frame was manufactured in Pakistan and pictures are available

Pakistan will be more than happy to sell it to Bangladesh, its Bangladesh that will not buy it

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## ziaulislam

Signalian said:


> Islamabad gave several squadrons of F-6 fighter aircraft as a gift to the Bangladeshi air force in the late 1980s although most of these were destroyed in a cyclonic storm which hit coastal Bangladesh in 1991.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2158900.stm
> 
> 
> This is something new for me.


relations were perfect before the hussina era of dictatorship in Bangladesh

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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> relations were perfect before the hussina era of dictatorship in Bangladesh



Hasina is a bump in the road.

The hearts of the people is what really matters.


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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> PAKISTAN HAS NO CONCERNS OF SELLING FC 1 TO ANYONE INCLUDING INDIA..
> avionics are separate for pakistani jets, and each customers can get their own choice of western, hybrid, or pure Chinese avionics, the Burmese air frame was manufactured in Pakistan and pictures are available
> 
> Pakistan will be more than happy to sell it to Bangladesh, its Bangladesh that will not buy it


yes because the productions of both the jets are split... fc-1 do get their basic airframe made in pakistan before being sent to china for assembly...

bd was interested in those back in 2007-2008 but then lost interest in favor of j-10 and china was not willing to sell those so we got the bgi as stop gap



Avicenna said:


> Hasina is a bump in the road.
> 
> The hearts of the people is what really matters.


for a country with people like of bangladesh... dictatorship is essential for growth in the early years... lots of similarities with slavic countries people... they're not fit as of now to choose who's good for the country....

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> yes because the productions of both the jets are split... fc-1 do get their basic airframe made in pakistan before being sent to china for assembly...
> 
> bd was interested in those back in 2007-2008 but then lost interest in favor of j-10 and china was not willing to sell those so we got the bgi as stop gap



So why did BAF not go back to JF-17?


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## LKJ86

ziaulislam said:


> PAKISTAN HAS NO CONCERNS OF SELLING FC 1 TO ANYONE INCLUDING INDIA..


Impossible

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> So why did BAF not go back to JF-17?


BAf was hardpressed on getting j-10 but then regime change bought about new air chief who wanted sukhois and other better fighters... unfortunately the dude dreamt too big and 10 yearss later we're still waiting to hear announcement of the purchase... BAF's dismal state can be blamed on budget and their officers.... in comparison everyone knows how advanced the navy has gotten compared to before

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> BAf was hardpressed on getting j-10 but then regime change bought about new air chief who wanted sukhois and other better fighters... unfortunately the dude dreamt too big and 10 yearss later we're still waiting to hear announcement of the purchase... BAF's dismal state can be blamed on budget and their officers.... in comparison everyone knows how advanced the navy has gotten compared to before



Well if budget was the major issue, then JF-17 would have been perfect as that costs 15-20 million dollars per plane.
Once China said no to J-10 then there would have been enough money to buy 1-2 squadrons of JF-17, instead of spending 150 million dollars on the 16 F-7BGI and the excess trainers.
BAF have been led by idiots over the last decade.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Well if budget was the major issue, then JF-17 would have been perfect as that costs 15-20 million dollars per plane.
> Once China said no to J-10 then there would have been enough money to buy 1-2 squadrons of JF-17, instead of spending 150 million dollars on the 16 F-7BGI and the excess trainers.
> BAF have been led by idiots over the last decade.


yeah...


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## SABRE

BAF should consider buying used MiG-29s from different countries & have them upgraded. Perhaps, it should also consider partnering with India on LCA MKII.



Michael Corleone said:


> china can sell fc1... this is why pakistan couldn't stop burmese sell of fc1



Pakistan didn't wholeheartedly intend to stop Burmese JF-17 sales. A lot of work on the aircraft was, in fact, done by Pakistan & then rerouted through China, where some avionics were incorporated on them & subsequently dispatched to Myanmar. Plus, where would the BD gain training from? CAC has simulators & pilots from PLAAF who can do that but the actual/proper hands-on experience on JF-17/FC-1 is with PAF. Overall, Pakistan wouldn't have any problem with BD buying JF-17/FC-1. Its is a Pakistan-China joint venture. Its purchase from either country benefits both.



ziaulislam said:


> *PAKISTAN HAS NO CONCERNS OF SELLING FC 1 TO ANYONE INCLUDING INDIA..*
> avionics are separate for pakistani jets, and each customers can get their own choice of western, hybrid, or pure Chinese avionics, the Burmese air frame was manufactured in Pakistan and pictures are available
> 
> Pakistan will be more than happy to sell it to Bangladesh, its Bangladesh that will not buy it



Pakistan selling JF-17 to India (or even India buying it)? That's the most preposterous thing I have heard.


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## Michael Corleone

SABRE said:


> BAF should consider buying used MiG-29s from different countries & have them upgraded. Perhaps, it should also consider partnering with India on LCA MKII.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan didn't wholeheartedly intend to stop Burmese JF-17 sales. A lot of work on the aircraft was, in fact, done by Pakistan & then rerouted through China, where some avionics were incorporated on them & subsequently dispatched to Myanmar. Plus, where would the BD gain training from? CAC has simulators & pilots from PLAAF who can do that but the actual/proper hands-on experience on JF-17/FC-1 is with PAF. Overall, Pakistan wouldn't have any problem with BD buying JF-17/FC-1. Its is a Pakistan-China joint venture. Its purchase from either country benefits both.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan selling JF-17 to India (or even India buying it)? That's the most preposterous thing I have heard.


bangladesh do have their people sent to pakistan regularly for training and so does pakistan.... it's not like the military communications is cut off from pakistan.

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## SABRE

Michael Corleone said:


> bangladesh do have their people sent to pakistan regularly for training and so does pakistan.... it's not like the military communications is cut off from pakistan.



There has not been a major military training programme or a major military exercise between the two countries. 
BD military officials have visited Pakistan but only for regular courses. PAF's major exercises entail joint training, joint flights, development of joint tactics, etc. There is nothing 'joint' with BAF. Besides, JF-17/FC-1 will be a completely different story. It's not just the aircraft but politics that comes with it. The Indians won't be happy with it & Shiekh Hasina cannot afford to make India unhappy. BNP might be a different story. India & Awami League would also not be comfortable in either stationing PAF pilots in BD, or sending BD pilots to Pakistan, in fear of indoctrination. China can step in. Hassina won't have much problem with that but India would. The politics of JF-17 has perhaps kept BD away from buying it. Otherwise, it is an ideal jet for the country.

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## mb444

SABRE said:


> There has not been a major military training programme or a major military exercise between the two countries.
> BD military officials have visited Pakistan but only for regular courses. PAF's major exercises entail joint training, joint flights, development of joint tactics, etc. There is nothing 'joint' with BAF. Besides, JF-17/FC-1 will be a completely different story. It's not just the aircraft but politics that comes with it. The Indians won't be happy with it & Shiekh Hasina cannot afford to make India unhappy. BNP might be a different story. India & Awami League would also not be comfortable in either stationing PAF pilots in BD, or sending BD pilots to Pakistan, in fear of indoctrination. China can step in. Hassina won't have much problem with that but India would. The politics of JF-17 has perhaps kept BD away from buying it. Otherwise, it is an ideal jet for the country.




I agree with your statement. JF17 was a national priority for pakistan whilst BAF does seem like a national joke. Heres hoping they turn it around.

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## SABRE

mb444 said:


> I agree with your statement. JF17 was a national priority for pakistan whilst BAF does seem like a national joke. Heres hoping they turn it around.


 
Dynamics of Pakistan's arms acquisitions are significantly different from that of BD. 

I believe balancing between India and China, & also bashing Pakistan for political reasons, is not going in favour of BD. Awami League/Hasina knows JF-17s would come with restrictions under their rule, & it will require a big political compromise on their end. FC-20A is probably a similar story. The only good option for BAF under the current regime is going to Russia. There were big talks of new MiG-29 & Su-30 from Russia in the early 2000s but nothing came of it. So, I guess that story wasn't serious either. My suggestion, once again, for BAF would be to buy 2nd hand MiG-29s, have them upgraded, and join India's LCA programme.


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## UKBengali

SABRE said:


> Dynamics of Pakistan's arms acquisitions are significantly different from that of BD.
> 
> I believe balancing between India and China, & also bashing Pakistan for political reasons, is not going in favour of BD. Awami League/Hasina knows JF-17s would come with restrictions under their rule, & it will require a big political compromise on their end. FC-20A is probably a similar story. The only good option for BAF under the current regime is going to Russia. There were big talks of new MiG-29 & Su-30 from Russia in the early 2000s but nothing came of it. So, I guess that story wasn't serious either. My suggestion, once again, for BAF would be to buy 2nd hand MiG-29s, have them upgraded, and join India's LCA programme.



LCA programme?



BD can buy J-10C from China if it has the cash for it.

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## Avicenna

SABRE said:


> Dynamics of Pakistan's arms acquisitions are significantly different from that of BD.
> 
> I believe balancing between India and China, & also bashing Pakistan for political reasons, is not going in favour of BD. Awami League/Hasina knows JF-17s would come with restrictions under their rule, & it will require a big political compromise on their end. FC-20A is probably a similar story. The only good option for BAF under the current regime is going to Russia. There were big talks of new MiG-29 & Su-30 from Russia in the early 2000s but nothing came of it. So, I guess that story wasn't serious either. My suggestion, once again, for BAF would be to buy 2nd hand MiG-29s, have them upgraded, and join India's LCA programme.



If BD ends up buying the LCA, they might as well just disband the BAF.

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## SBUS-CXK

Avicenna said:


> If BD ends up buying the LCA, they might as well just disband the BAF.


LOL

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## Bilal9

Two said:


> LOL



The LCA is a hard sell in India itself, to put it mildly....

And now it is 20 year old technology 'has been' (that never was).


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## SBUS-CXK

Bilal9 said:


> The LCA is a hard sell in India itself, to put it mildly....


We all know...
But Ecuador may be more understanding.

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## Christina Chan

The LCA Tejas keeps progressing...for almost 40 years.

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## Michael Corleone

SABRE said:


> Dynamics of Pakistan's arms acquisitions are significantly different from that of BD.
> 
> I believe balancing between India and China, & also bashing Pakistan for political reasons, is not going in favour of BD. Awami League/Hasina knows JF-17s would come with restrictions under their rule, & it will require a big political compromise on their end. FC-20A is probably a similar story. The only good option for BAF under the current regime is going to Russia. There were big talks of new MiG-29 & Su-30 from Russia in the early 2000s but nothing came of it. So, I guess that story wasn't serious either. My suggestion, once again, for BAF would be to buy 2nd hand MiG-29s, have them upgraded, and join India's LCA programme.


the 2000s deal was adequate until khaleda decided to **** BAF up for good...
purged all the good officers and cancelled the 8 completely ready for delivery... cancelled the 16 more on process of being manufactured and tried putting mig 29s up for sale... 
it's not that she only fucked BAF up, she even put the most advanced frigate of that time in the region/ still the best one in BN fleet... up in the dock without any maintainance... that thing needed so much repair to be bought back to service when hasina came back to power.... she cancelled the order for the other ulsan class frigate too...

even back in 2018 the talk of the day was j-10 would come with su30 since they share common engines, it would be easier to maintain and shit.... but russia offered mig 35 with limited transfer of tech on conditions for acquiring su 30 and the deal was backtracked for some more... heard we're supposed to hear some kind of announcement this month... let's see... hopefully those incompetent fucks made up their mind

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## bluesky

Signalian said:


> Islamabad gave several squadrons of F-6 fighter aircraft as a gift to the Bangladeshi air force in the late 1980s although most of these were destroyed in a cyclonic storm which hit coastal Bangladesh in 1991.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2158900.stm
> 
> This is something new for me.


Yes, both news is true. 
1) BAF received a number of jet planes from the PAF. 
2) These planes were stationed in Chittagong/Patenga. The BAF Chief neglected to move the planes to other destinations before a cyclone hit the shore. The planes were destroyed probably by the seawater and the BAF Chief lost his job as a consequence.

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## bdslph

Michael Corleone said:


> the 2000s deal was adequate until khaleda decided to **** BAF up for good...
> purged all the good officers and cancelled the 8 completely ready for delivery... cancelled the 16 more on process of being manufactured and tried putting mig 29s up for sale...
> it's not that she only fucked BAF up, she even put the most advanced frigate of that time in the region/ still the best one in BN fleet... up in the dock without any maintainance... that thing needed so much repair to be bought back to service when hasina came back to power.... she cancelled the order for the other ulsan class frigate too...
> 
> even back in 2018 the talk of the day was j-10 would come with su30 since they share common engines, it would be easier to maintain and shit.... but russia offered mig 35 with limited transfer of tech on conditions for acquiring su 30 and the deal was backtracked for some more... heard we're supposed to hear some kind of announcement this month... let's see... hopefully those incompetent fucks made up their mind



this 2 person have screwed up the military making bad decisions


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## SABRE

Michael Corleone said:


> the 2000s deal was adequate until khaleda decided to **** BAF up for good...
> purged all the good officers and cancelled the 8 completely ready for delivery... cancelled the 16 more on process of being manufactured and tried putting mig 29s up for sale...
> it's not that she only fucked BAF up, she even put the most advanced frigate of that time in the region/ still the best one in BN fleet... up in the dock without any maintainance... that thing needed so much repair to be bought back to service when hasina came back to power.... she cancelled the order for the other ulsan class frigate too...
> 
> even back in 2018 the talk of the day was j-10 would come with su30 since they share common engines, it would be easier to maintain and shit.... but russia offered mig 35 with limited transfer of tech on conditions for acquiring su 30 and the deal was backtracked for some more... heard we're supposed to hear some kind of announcement this month... let's see... hopefully those incompetent fucks made up their mind



Hasina hasn't done much in that case either. She has had a controversial but stable rule in BD for a long time now (two consecutive terms now, right?). She has governed a better economy. Yet, she has made no attempt to improve BAF. Both AL & BNP might have their reasons for not pursuing BAF's modernization, or both have been simply careless. In either case, BAF's combat capability is depleting fast. I am not that well aware of BD's security dynamics, so I can't say anything about the possibility of any war with Myanmar, but Myanmar Air Force is quickly modernising. Not only does BAF appear in need of new fighter jets to catch up, but *IMO*, it will need to retire F-7s in a decades time.


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## Michael Corleone

SABRE said:


> Hasina hasn't done much in that case either. She has had a controversial but stable rule in BD for a long time now (two consecutive terms now, right?). She has governed a better economy. Yet, she has made no attempt to improve BAF. Both AL & BNP might have their reasons for not pursuing BAF's modernization, or both have been simply careless. In either case, BAF's combat capability is depleting fast. I am not that well aware of BD's security dynamics, so I can't say anything about the possibility of any war with Myanmar, but Myanmar Air Force is quickly modernising. Not only does BAF appear in need of new fighter jets to catch up, but *IMO*, it will need to retire F-7s in a decades time.


well yeah... her main focus has been the navy since it was the weakest among all the force... BAF doesn't have a combat capability to speak of tbh... the focus should shift to BAF

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## mb444

SABRE said:


> Hasina hasn't done much in that case either. She has had a controversial but stable rule in BD for a long time now (two consecutive terms now, right?). She has governed a better economy. Yet, she has made no attempt to improve BAF. Both AL & BNP might have their reasons for not pursuing BAF's modernization, or both have been simply careless. In either case, BAF's combat capability is depleting fast. I am not that well aware of BD's security dynamics, so I can't say anything about the possibility of any war with Myanmar, but Myanmar Air Force is quickly modernising. Not only does BAF appear in need of new fighter jets to catch up, but *IMO*, it will need to retire F-7s in a decades time.


F7 BGIs are not bad but they can not conceivably remain as frontline fighters.... they have near BVR capability supposedly but whilst they have a good 20 years life in them in the long run beyond acting as interceptor within BD airspace supplimented by land based air defense they are as good as useless.

BAF absolutely need to be prioritised or alternatively prioritise a massive missile force like Iran. The latter would be a cheaper option providing BA and BN of some support. BAF have no capacity to support the rest of the forces in any manner whatsoever.


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> F7 BGIs are not bad but they can not conceivably remain as frontline fighters.... they have near BVR capability supposedly but whilst they have a good 20 years life in them in the long run beyond acting as interceptor within BD airspace supplimented by land based air defense they are as good as useless.
> 
> BAF absolutely need to be prioritised or alternatively prioritise a massive missile force like Iran. The latter would be a cheaper option providing BA and BN of some support. BAF have no capacity to support the rest of the forces in any manner whatsoever.


missiles cost more tbh... especially if you intend to make your own...


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> missiles cost more tbh... especially if you intend to make your own...



Missiles whilst not cheap are technologically easier to master.... BD does not need cutting edge stuff. With enough of them you can keep the enemy unbalanced. BD can easily neutralise the air bases around us forcing enemy to use their long range fighters and minimising operational freedom of ground troops.

In any potential conflict missiles will significantly increase our operational range. Its a phycological thing.... the enemy will know that BD can start hitting targets before any wars crosses into our border. Depending on the type of missiles we can put in place air cover that BAF is in no position to provide.

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## ghost250

bangladesh airforce got the delivery of 5 more mil mi-171sh helicopters from russia..
source-DTB,DEFRES






#Dogfight_simulation_of_MiG_29SE_of_BAF 

Here we go 2x MiG-29 engaged in dog fight over Dhaka. Demonstrates chasing the foe at a very low altitude to get a clear shot as well as to the safe zone far from the locality(DTB)

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## ghost250

Independence Day and Military Hardware Display Inauguration flypast by Bangladesh Air Force (DTB)





__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> Independence Day and Military Hardware Display Inauguration flypast by Bangladesh Air Force (DTB)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


apparently the pilots of the military hardware display are telling the public that mig 35 and su-35 are what's going to be bought


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## SABRE

Michael Corleone said:


> apparently the pilots of the military hardware display are telling the public that mig 35 and su-35 are what's going to be bought



MiG-35 makes sense for BAF. Su-35 is overkill and burden in terms of maintenance cost for the country the size of BD. It would be better to buy more of MiG-35 and spend on upgrading existing MiG-29 and buying more used ones. 60+ MiG-35/29 would be sufficient to counter small regional threats, maintain for next 30 to 40 years, and retire the legacy aircraft in mid to long run. Nothing you can buy would matter to IAF given their virtually unsurpassable quantitative and qualitative edge. Plus, they are not a threat as long as Hasina is in power Perhaps, not even if BNP comes to power. Myanmar Su-30 deal is more symbolic and going to be problematic in terms of operations.

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## Michael Corleone

SABRE said:


> Nothing you can buy would matter to IAF given their virtually unsurpassable quantitative and qualitative edge.


quantitaive maybe but qualitative... i doubt that... given what i saw in reccent fight with pakistan... i actually expected india to do really good... not that it benefits me in any way. but i thought their pilots have matured and become as good as pakistans but now i realize they still have their ego... 
eh well...
idk why the 35s... tbh 30s are decent enough if establishing a maritime strike is all, they're buying that for...

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> apparently the pilots of the military hardware display are telling the public that mig 35 and su-35 are what's going to be bought



In your opinion how reliable is this?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> In your opinion how reliable is this?


in my opinion, i could give zero fucks to what the incompetent fucks have to say about the future....


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

SABRE said:


> MiG-35 makes sense for BAF. Su-35 is overkill and burden in terms of maintenance cost for the country the size of BD. It would be better to buy more of MiG-35 and spend on upgrading existing MiG-29 and buying more used ones. 60+ MiG-35/29 would be sufficient to counter small regional threats, maintain for next 30 to 40 years, and retire the legacy aircraft in mid to long run. Nothing you can buy would matter to IAF given their virtually unsurpassable quantitative and qualitative edge. Plus, they are not a threat as long as Hasina is in power Perhaps, not even if BNP comes to power. Myanmar Su-30 deal is more symbolic and going to be problematic in terms of operations.


Well, in my POV only Gripen E makes sense for BAF. Other options are either too expensive or hanger queen.

~36 Gripen E with ~6 Global Eye AEW combo will do the defensive job for BAF.

BTW, weapons package also matters...

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## Avicenna

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Well, in my POV only Gripen E makes sense for BAF. Other options are either too expensive or hanger queen.
> 
> ~36 Gripen E with ~6 Global Eye AEW combo will do the defensive job for BAF.
> 
> BTW, weapons package also matters...



Agree.

Sad to see which direction BAF seems to be going. (If rumors are true)

The whole India/Pakistan skirmish does not look favorably on the Flanker.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Agree.
> 
> Sad to see which direction BAF seems to be going. (If rumors are true)
> 
> The whole India/Pakistan skirmish does not look favorably on the Flanker.



Let us wait and see. BAF may just pull a surprise on us all!

I would not take one air battle and write off the Flanker as it is a formidable air superiority fighter looking at it's specs. Tactics, pilot skill and the whole support package decide the outcome of air warfare.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Let us wait


bruh i'll be married in a few years and BAF is yet to buy a fighter... i've been waiting since puberty

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## Keysersoze

That's a 8 billion dollar deal. Can the BAF afford that in all honesty?


Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Well, in my POV only Gripen E makes sense for BAF. Other options are either too expensive or hanger queen.
> 
> ~36 Gripen E with ~6 Global Eye AEW combo will do the defensive job for BAF.
> 
> BTW, weapons package also matters...

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Avicenna said:


> Sad to see which direction BAF seems to be going. (If rumors are true)


Its awful...


Avicenna said:


> The whole India/Pakistan skirmish does not look favorably on the Flanker


What did you expect from that hanger queen?



UKBengali said:


> Let us wait and see. BAF may just pull a surprise on us all!


Yep, what ever they will purchase, they will go for the most inferior version with with fucked up weapons package. Thats for sure...


UKBengali said:


> I would not take one air battle and write off the Flanker as it is a formidable air superiority fighter looking at it's specs. Tactics, pilot skill and the whole support package decide the outcome of air warfare.


Flankers has inferior electronics and weapons package compared to its western counterparts. It is a proven hanger queen too. BD can't make skillful pilots with this hanger queen.



Michael Corleone said:


> bruh i'll be married in a few years and BAF is yet to buy a fighter... i've been waiting since puberty


#MeToo



Keysersoze said:


> That's a 8 billion dollar deal. Can the BAF afford that in all honesty?


I dont know mate! They should be able to afford this amount. But, if they cant, we should rename them as air guards...

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## Imran Khan

still buying jets on PDF ? ohhh man

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Imran Khan said:


> still buying jets on PDF ? ohhh man


Thats what we can do...


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## Imran Khan

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Thats what we can do...


i have given my honest advise many time lets talk about what BD have in hands and leave this purchase purchase aside . but in last many years even before BG purchase they were doing same . lets move on guys its not worth .


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## Avicenna

Keep twidling your thumbs BAF!

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## SABRE

Michael Corleone said:


> quantitaive maybe but qualitative... i doubt that... given what i saw in reccent fight with pakistan... i actually expected india to do really good... not that it benefits me in any way. but i thought their pilots have matured and become as good as pakistans but now i realize they still have their ego...
> eh well...
> idk why the 35s... tbh 30s are decent enough if establishing a maritime strike is all, they're buying that for...



In a highly asymmetrical competition, like in the case of IAF & BAF (if such competition exists), the bigger state with an accessive quantity has a higher probability of having comparative/relative quality against a smaller opponent. IAF in comparison to BAF has both quantity and quality. The reasons for IAF's bad performance against PAF are manifold. One can write a thesis on it. But I don't think those mistakes are relevant in IAF vs. BAF situation. As East Pakistan, Bangladesh produced some of the greatest fighter pilots in the region. World class, in fact. But the lack of availability of quality (& quantity) aircraft and training seems to have wasted away the potential. Anyway, with Myanmar acquiring JF-17s and Su-30 I think Hasina would find something for BAF. Whether that 'something' is going to be based on availability or BAF's requirements and preference or Hasina's own political interest would be the deciding point.

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## Avicenna

SABRE said:


> In a highly asymmetrical competition, like in the case of IAF & BAF (if such competition exists), the bigger state with an accessive quantity has a higher probability of having comparative/relative quality against a smaller opponent. IAF in comparison to BAF has both quantity and quality. The reasons for IAF's bad performance against PAF are manifold. One can write a thesis on it. But I don't think those mistakes are relevant in IAF vs. BAF situation. As East Pakistan, Bangladesh produced some of the greatest fighter pilots in the region. World class, in fact. But the lack of availability of quality (& quantity) aircraft and training seems to have wasted away the potential. Anyway, with Myanmar acquiring JF-17s and Su-30 I think Hasina would find something for BAF. Whether that 'something' is going to be based on availability or BAF's requirements and preference or Hasina's own political interest would be the deciding point.



The last sentence is why I am so concerned.

As far as Bengalis in leadership positions are concerned, corruption and personal self-interest trumps all.


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Keep twidling your thumbs BAF!


its first bird of 2nd batch interested to see how many A and how many B models in these 10 units . so far 1 i confirmed remain 9 .

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Avicenna said:


> Bengalis in leadership positions are concerned, corruption and personal self-interest trumps all.


Hand over the state power to us Sylhetis! We will make Bangladesh great again.

#MBGA 

BTW, Dont take this seriously...


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## Michael Corleone

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> I dont know mate! They should be able to afford this amount. But, if they cant, we should rename them as air guards...


or flying club

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Michael Corleone said:


> or flying club


much better...

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## monitor

Ex-RAF C-17 Globemaster III will be purchased and operated jointly by the Bangladesh Army and Air Force. The Special Forces units will use these behemoths for rapid deploying in regional and international theatres to support Bangladeshi forces deployed around the world.

Large scale Special Forces and Airborne Infantry will be availed the support of the mighty C-17s.

UK continues to be a strong defence partner of Bangladesh. It is supplying C-130Js to BAF. Two will join the air fleet within months.

#BDMilitary.com #BangladeshAirForce




@Imran Khan we will soon add some sexy bird inshaallah .

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## Avisheik

monitor said:


> Ex-RAF C-17 Globemaster III will be purchased and operated jointly by the Bangladesh Army and Air Force. The Special Forces units will use these behemoths for rapid deploying in regional and international theatres to support Bangladeshi forces deployed around the world.
> 
> Large scale Special Forces and Airborne Infantry will be availed the support of the mighty C-17s.
> 
> UK continues to be a strong defence partner of Bangladesh. It is supplying C-130Js to BAF. Two will join the air fleet within months.
> 
> #BDMilitary.com #BangladeshAirForce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan we will soon add some sexy bird inshaallah .



How credible is this news?? These ca 17s bought by uk 2008 they have only 8 of them. Whats their reason for selling this bird?


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## Imran Khan

Avisheik said:


> How credible is this news?? These ca 17s bought by uk 2008 they have only 8 of them. Whats their reason for selling this bird?


fans and more fans 

UK paid 260mnBP for services and support 5 years .
https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/uk-mod-signs-260m-fms-deal-us-support-rafs-c-17-aircraft/



monitor said:


> Ex-RAF C-17 Globemaster III will be purchased and operated jointly by the Bangladesh Army and Air Force. The Special Forces units will use these behemoths for rapid deploying in regional and international theatres to support Bangladeshi forces deployed around the world.
> 
> Large scale Special Forces and Airborne Infantry will be availed the support of the mighty C-17s.
> 
> UK continues to be a strong defence partner of Bangladesh. It is supplying C-130Js to BAF. Two will join the air fleet within months.
> 
> #BDMilitary.com #BangladeshAirForce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan we will soon add some sexy bird inshaallah .


they give away C-130s you guys start collecting C-17s too

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## Avicenna

Myanmar Air Force JF-17M including the two-seater.

How's that aerobatics team coming along BAF?


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## Aryeih Leib

Is it true ?


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## Avicenna

https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/russia-offers-best-in-class-su-30sme-mig-35-577830.html

*Russia Offers Best-in-Class Su-30SME, MiG-35 Fighters To Bangladesh - Aircraft Corporation*

Umer Jamshaid 4 days ago Mon 25th March 2019 | 04:22 PM






*Dhaka previously announced a tender to purchase eight fighters for its air force*

LANGKAWI (Malaysia) (UrduPoint news / Sputnik - 25th March, 2019) Russia offers its best-in-class Su-30SME (NATO reporting name: Flanker-C) and MiG-35 (NATOreporting name: Fulcrum-F) aircraft to Bangladesh in a bidding competition, Ilya Tarasenko, the vice president for military-technical cooperation at the United Aircraft Corporation, told Sputnik.

Dhaka previously announced a tender to purchase eight fighters for its air force.

"Our countries have been cooperating for many years. The fleet of the Bangladesh Air Force consists mainly of Russian-made aircraft. We believe that our offer in the class of two-seat heavy and medium fighters of 4+ generation and this is Su-30SME and MiG-35 aircraft is the best in class," Tarasenko said ahead of the 2019 Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition, set to start on Tuesday.

Russian-made MiG-29 aircraft, Mil Mi-17 helicopters and Yak-130 trainer aircraft are used by Bangladesh.

This was the only other piece I found that mentioned something referring to your post.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/russia-offers-best-in-class-su-30sme-mig-35-577830.html
> 
> *Russia Offers Best-in-Class Su-30SME, MiG-35 Fighters To Bangladesh - Aircraft Corporation*
> 
> Umer Jamshaid 4 days ago Mon 25th March 2019 | 04:22 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dhaka previously announced a tender to purchase eight fighters for its air force*
> 
> LANGKAWI (Malaysia) (UrduPoint news / Sputnik - 25th March, 2019) Russia offers its best-in-class Su-30SME (NATO reporting name: Flanker-C) and MiG-35 (NATOreporting name: Fulcrum-F) aircraft to Bangladesh in a bidding competition, Ilya Tarasenko, the vice president for military-technical cooperation at the United Aircraft Corporation, told Sputnik.
> 
> Dhaka previously announced a tender to purchase eight fighters for its air force.
> 
> "Our countries have been cooperating for many years. The fleet of the Bangladesh Air Force consists mainly of Russian-made aircraft. We believe that our offer in the class of two-seat heavy and medium fighters of 4+ generation and this is Su-30SME and MiG-35 aircraft is the best in class," Tarasenko said ahead of the 2019 Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition, set to start on Tuesday.
> 
> Russian-made MiG-29 aircraft, Mil Mi-17 helicopters and Yak-130 trainer aircraft are used by Bangladesh.
> 
> This was the only other piece I found that mentioned something referring to your post.




If this is true in anyway...BD should on an emergency basis get 2.5 sqd of mig and a sqd of su-30 with an option for further 2 sqd of migs and a sqd of su.

However likely purchase.... 8 mig...4 su.... BAF are morons

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## Michael Corleone

Avisheik said:


> How credible is this news?? These ca 17s bought by uk 2008 they have only 8 of them. Whats their reason for selling this bird?


budget cuts


Imran Khan said:


> they give away C-130s you guys start collecting C-17s too


we bought em... two more are to be bought but i think they'll come under EDA


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> If this is true in anyway...BD should on an emergency basis get 2.5 sqd of mig and a sqd of su-30 with an option for further 2 sqd of migs and a sqd of su.
> 
> However likely purchase.... 8 mig...4 su.... BAF are morons



I'm not happy at all about any MiG-35 purchase.

I don't see how this makes any sense.

A split buy of SU-30SME and MiG-35?


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> If this is true in anyway...BD should on an emergency basis get 2.5 sqd of mig and a sqd of su-30 with an option for further 2 sqd of migs and a sqd of su.
> 
> However likely purchase.... 8 mig...4 su.... BAF are morons


true, the way you say makes more economic sense because then they will be selling in the preciously agreed price



Avicenna said:


> I'm not happy at all about any MiG-35 purchase.


i'm not happy to have any air force without fighter jets.... or f7s for that matter


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> true, the way you say makes more economic sense because then they will be selling in the preciously agreed price
> 
> 
> i'm not happy to have any air force without fighter jets.... or f7s for that matter



From some accounts MiG-35 is just a moderatly upgraded MiG-29.

no AESA.

no TVC.

Primary motive is for exports to keep MiG in business.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I'm not happy at all about any MiG-35 purchase.
> 
> I don't see how this makes any sense.
> 
> A split buy of SU-30SME and MiG-35?


it's not going to be 8 mig 35 and 4 su-30... that doesn't make sense especially when you think of training maintenance crew and infrastructure and spares.
most like 16 migs and 8 sukhois with 4 optional

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> it's not going to be 8 mig 35 and 4 su-30... that doesn't make sense especially when you think of training maintenance crew and infrastructure and spares.
> most like 16 migs and 8 sukhois with 4 optional



What's with the Russian love?

What happened to China?

J-10C would have been nice. (but more importantly, SD-10 and PL-15)

Perhaps things are not so well with China?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> From some accounts MiG-35 is just a moderatly upgraded MiG-29.
> 
> no AESA.
> 
> no TVC.
> 
> Primary motive is for exports to keep MiG in business.


well the airframe is newly designed, it has higher service life and payload capacity compared to the previous mig 29s measely 2400hrs... mig 29 was designed to be fast replaceable disposable plates but this is more like what a mig 29 should have been... open architecture so add your own stuff and TVC and AESA standard however if you want to haggle, they'll have to go.... remember egypt deal? they later haggled down to mig 29s... which was stupid and would sting them in downtime and maintenance cost



Avicenna said:


> What's with the Russian love?
> 
> What happened to China?
> 
> J-10C would have been nice. (but more importantly, SD-10 and PL-15)
> 
> Perhaps things are not so well with China?


well something leads me to believe they don't want to get into china's bed forever.... remember the khulna shipyard deal and how it was called off.... now they come with better offer that doesn't include chinese ownership of the yard
the chinese only have light and medium on offer... bd wants medium and heavy... and after india played some politics with the russians... their condition was get the mig and you can take the sukhoi... which tbf is not bad of a deal... we'll get part tot to make some spares in bd, especially things like rubber gaskets canopy etc for the migs.... the cost of maintenance will be less than the mig 29s

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> well the airframe is newly designed, it has higher service life and payload capacity compared to the previous mig 29s measely 2400hrs... mig 29 was designed to be fast replaceable disposable plates but this is more like what a mig 29 should have been... open architecture so add your own stuff and TVC and AESA standard however if you want to haggle, they'll have to go.... remember egypt deal? they later haggled down to mig 29s... which was stupid and would sting them in downtime and maintenance cost
> 
> 
> well something leads me to believe they don't want to get into china's bed forever.... remember the khulna shipyard deal and how it was called off.... now they come with better offer that doesn't include chinese ownership of the yard



Yea legitmate points.

I guess we wait for official confirmation?

Which to me means something from the BAF or the manufacturers.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Yea legitmate points.
> 
> I guess we wait for official confirmation?
> 
> Which to me means something from the BAF or the manufacturers.


BAF never announces anything officially... all they would do at most is announce it in anirban after the delivery. unofficially BAF officials have talked about their intentions in LIMA

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> BAF never announces anything officially... all they would do at most is announce it in anirban after the delivery. unofficially BAF officials have talked about their intentions in LIMA



So would you say this article is reliable?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> So would you say this article is reliable?


idk the fact is there is this malaysian/indonesian (can't tell which, because their language is similar) that quotes UAC representative and even the pakistani source quotes UAC representative... BAF official haven;t done any press briefing and only said things off camera to bdmilitary... so idk... could have some truth to it.... it's still murky at best

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> well the airframe is newly designed, it has higher service life and payload capacity compared to the previous mig 29s measely 2400hrs... mig 29 was designed to be fast replaceable disposable plates but this is more like what a mig 29 should have been... open architecture so add your own stuff and TVC and AESA standard however if you want to haggle, they'll have to go.... remember egypt deal? they later haggled down to mig 29s... which was stupid and would sting them in downtime and maintenance cost
> 
> 
> well something leads me to believe they don't want to get into china's bed forever.... remember the khulna shipyard deal and how it was called off.... now they come with better offer that doesn't include chinese ownership of the yard
> the chinese only have light and medium on offer... bd wants medium and heavy... and after india played some politics with the russians... their condition was get the mig and you can take the sukhoi... which tbf is not bad of a deal... we'll get part tot to make some spares in bd, especially things like rubber gaskets canopy etc for the migs.... the cost of maintenance will be less than the mig 29s



I believe the Yak 130's (Mitten trainers) we have, can be software-programmed to mimic the flight envelopes of both the MiG-35 and the Su-30SME, as well as the rest of the fighters in the current Russian inventory.

The Yak-130 was designed from the outset with that goal.

So - our buying the Yak-130 was part of the plan I believe.


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> I believe the Yak 130's (Mitten trainers) we have, can be software-programmed to mimic the flight envelopes of both the MiG-35 and the Su-30SME, as well as the rest of the fighters in the current Russian inventory.
> 
> The Yak-130 was designed from the outset with that goal.
> 
> So - our buying the Yak-130 was part of the plan I believe.



Yes it is part of the plan. 

But let me ask you.

Politically, does Russia bring anything to the table?

Or is this just transactional in nature?


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## Bilal9

As for the China Ship Yard ownership thingie, I guess they are looking for new design/build partners in the West. Should not be an issue given the Navy budget situation, and also as this has been proclaimed by the PM already.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Yes it is part of the plan.
> 
> But let me ask you.
> 
> Politically, does Russia bring anything to the table?
> 
> Or is this just transactional in nature?



Their interest is long term arms business, they want more of our defense dollars vis-a-vis China. I believe at some point they may be planning to offer us the non-nuclear LADA or AMUR class (project 677) as well, which is smaller and cheaper than the KILO class. Quieter as well. 

But more later in the Navy section.

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## The Ronin

Wait, this is what they meant when they said, "next fighter will be cost effective"??!! Their operational cost is higher than J-10/Gripen. And more important question is why they are putting all eggs in one basket. Weird!!  Why not buy one from Russsian and another from Chinese or Western. I hope Turkey and Korea will complete their fighter project soon so that we won't have to rely on West or Russia/China for fighter in future. 



Avicenna said:


> no AESA.
> 
> no TVC.



Zhuk-A/AE AESA radar and optional TVC. It's not like TVC is always necessary.



Michael Corleone said:


> remember the khulna shipyard deal and how it was called off



I don't know this story. What happened?

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Wait, this is what they meant when they said, "next fighter will be cost effective"??!! Their operational cost is higher than J-10/Gripen. And more important question is why they are putting all eggs in one basket. Weird!!  Why not buy one from Russsian and another from Chinese or Western. I hope Turkey and Korea will complete their fighter project soon so that we won't have to rely on West or Russia/China for fighter in future.
> 
> 
> 
> Zhuk-A/AE AESA radar and optional TVC. It's not like TVC is always necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know this story. What happened?



BAF are a bunch of muppets.

If they go completely Russian, its the same as going completely Chinese.

You're held hostage.

Do a split buy from 2 different sources.

Damn man.

Also, I don't need TVC. 

But I really need a GOOD AESA.


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## Bilal9

Su-35 is overkill at this time.

Just look at how it floats....


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> it's not going to be 8 mig 35 and 4 su-30... that doesn't make sense especially when you think of training maintenance crew and infrastructure and spares.
> most like 16 migs and 8 sukhois with 4 optional




I agree it does not. But given BAF history they are a paper tiger without pretense. Assets would be bought to tick boxes rather than developing capabilities.

I personally would have gone chinese irrespective of the problems with the monkeys and would have gone in numbers.

Looking at Migs simply displays lack of long term planning.

Its just me but as i have said before BD should develop a potent missile capability before wasting money on BAF. They are only a logistic unit with a bloated management structure. They do not add anything to national defense.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> I agree it does not. But given BAF history they are a paper tiger without pretense. Assets would be bought to tick boxes rather than developing capabilities.
> 
> I personally would have gone chinese irrespective of the problems with the monkeys and would have gone in numbers.
> 
> Looking at Migs simply displays lack of long term planning.
> 
> Its just me but as i have said before BD should develop a potent missile capability before wasting money on BAF. They are only a logistic unit with a bloated management structure. They do not add anything to national defense.



I think buying Russian is betting on the wrong horse here.

Russian aviation is on its way down.

Chinese aviation on the other hand is on its way up.

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## Ali_Baba

Avicenna said:


> I think buying Russian is betting on the wrong horse here.
> 
> Russian aviation is on its way down.
> 
> Chinese aviation on the other hand is on its way up.



True. Russia is currently incapable of making a new greenfield design. The Su-57 is derivative of the Su-27. Russian lacks money to invest.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> I agree it does not. But given BAF history they are a paper tiger without pretense. Assets would be bought to tick boxes rather than developing capabilities.
> 
> I personally would have gone chinese irrespective of the problems with the monkeys and would have gone in numbers.
> 
> Looking at Migs simply displays lack of long term planning.
> 
> Its just me but as i have said before BD should develop a potent missile capability before wasting money on BAF. They are only a logistic unit with a bloated management structure. They do not add anything to national defense.


okay so i got confirmation that there will be 32 mig 35 and 12 sukhoi 30... first deal will be for sukhoi 30 and more yak 130... mig 35s will come a year later.... after sukhoi delivery is complete

MIG 29 deal was good, except what happened post awami govt.... that destroyed BAF for good.
BAF should focus more on anti aircraft guns than missiles... missile bunkers have been completed in Chittagong for LY_80.... new chinese GMLRS are on the paper with range extension plan to 800 or so km.... 

everything will be good if we don't deviate

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I think buying Russian is betting on the wrong horse here.
> 
> Russian aviation is on its way down.
> 
> Chinese aviation on the other hand is on its way up.



Yep, I think it is no fluke that the JF-17 most likely shot down a SU-30MKI on February 27th. Simply Chinese radar and electronic technology is ahead than that of Russia.
As time goes by, China will first catch up with EU and may even equal US in military tech decades into the future.
I really hope BAF leaders are not so retarded to buy both Mig-35 and SU-30SME. SU-30SME I can live with due to massive payload and range but never Mig-35.



Michael Corleone said:


> okay so i got confirmation that there will be 32 mig 35 and 12 sukhoi 30... first deal will be for sukhoi 30 and more yak 130... mig 35s will come a year later.... after sukhoi delivery is complete
> 
> MIG 29 deal was good, except what happened post awami govt.... that destroyed BAF for good.
> BAF should focus more on anti aircraft guns than missiles... missile bunkers have been completed in Chittagong for LY_80.... new chinese GMLRS are on the paper with range extension plan to 800 or so km....
> 
> everything will be good if we don't deviate



100% for sure bro?

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Yep, I think it is no fluke that the JF-17 most likely shot down a SU-30MKI on February 27th. Simply Chinese radar and electronic technology is ahead than that of Russia.
> As time goes by, China will first catch up with EU and may even equal US in military tech decades into the future.
> I really hope BAF eaders are not so retarded to buy both Mig-35 and SU-30SME. SU-30SME I can live with due to massive payload and range but never Mig-35.
> 
> 
> 
> 100% for sure bro?


bro, i got confirmation from a guy whose friend is in the airforce and was present in LIMA. so yeah... this time the sources seem to be legit because bangladesh side is yet to release any information officially.... all info this time is from UAC representatives....

there is plans to make parts and avionics in bd with irkut technology.
and the pilot demand is high right now... there is a shortage of pilots and retired pilots are being hired in NCO roles.... most likely many pilots will be sent abroad for training... so don't be surprised if you see bangladeshi cadets in turkish, pakistani, russian, saudi, Kuwait, US or UK for training in various platforms like transport/ helicopter/ fighters etc



The Ronin said:


> Why not buy one from Russsian and another from Chinese or Western.


the russian clause for su30 might have something to do with it



The Ronin said:


> I don't know this story. What happened?


well, they wanted majority ownership of khulna yard and CDDL, which would help them to build their own ship their if they want



Bilal9 said:


> I believe the Yak 130's (Mitten trainers) we have, can be software-programmed to mimic the flight envelopes of both the MiG-35 and the Su-30SME, as well as the rest of the fighters in the current Russian inventory.
> 
> The Yak-130 was designed from the outset with that goal.
> 
> So - our buying the Yak-130 was part of the plan I believe.


you're exactly right... more yak to be ordered with sukhoi 
bd if they plan to get su57 15-20 years down the line can still depend on yak 130 
it's a good jet.... serving attack role along with training so yeah...

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> bro, i got confirmation from a guy whose friend is in the airforce and was present in LIMA. so yeah... this time the sources seem to be legit because bangladesh side is yet to release any information officially.... all info this time is from UAC representatives....
> 
> there is plans to make parts and avionics in bd with irkut technology.
> and the pilot demand is high right now... there is a shortage of pilots and retired pilots are being hired in NCO roles.... most likely many pilots will be sent abroad for training... so don't be surprised if you see bangladeshi cadets in turkish, pakistani, russian, saudi, Kuwait, US or UK for training in various platforms like transport/ helicopter/ fighters etc



Ok. At least BAF will be getting these fighters in numbers and the Mig-35 will be coming with AESA radar which should at least match the radars of the fighters of MAF.
I am happy that BAF had got the SU-30SME as this fighter can provide support to BN deep into the Bay of Bengal and can also carry out heavy strikes deep into enemy territory.
If the BD economy stays strong, in 5 years time they can always buy another fighter.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Ok. At least BAF will be getting these fighters in numbers and the Mig-35 will be coming with AESA radar which should at least match the radars of the fighters of MAF.
> I am happy that BAF had got the SU-30SME as this fighter can provide support to BN deep into the Bay of Bengal and can also carry out heavy strikes deep into enemy territory.
> If the BD economy stays strong, in 5 years time they can always buy another fighter.


i'm pretty sure these two will be the only fighters for the next 30-40 years... maybe the pilot shortage is why BAF will get those SU30 and not the navy.... navy and army aviation needs to catch up


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> i'm pretty sure these two will be the only fighters for the next 30-40 years... maybe the pilot shortage is why BAF will get those SU30 and not the navy.... navy and army aviation needs to catch up



30-40 years is a very long time.
Remember BD is predicted to be the fastest growing large economy in the world till 2030. As time goes by, money will become less of an issue.


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Yep, I think it is no fluke that the JF-17 most likely shot down a SU-30MKI on February 27th. Simply Chinese radar and electronic technology is ahead than that of Russia.
> As time goes by, China will first catch up with EU and may even equal US in military tech decades into the future.
> I really hope BAF leaders are not so retarded to buy both Mig-35 and SU-30SME. SU-30SME I can live with due to massive payload and range but never Mig-35.
> 100% for sure bro?



Mig-35 is a better fighter than any of the Chinese fighter made for export.
Russia will keep investing on military technology to keep parity with the USA. Thats the only way they can secure a vast country extended from the middle of Europe to the end of Asia. If needed they will mobilize entire of their population to military and they can afford it.
China still a long long way to go.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Mig-35 is a better fighter than any of the Chinese fighter made for export.
> Russia will keep investing on military technology to keep parity with the USA. Thats the only way they can secure a vast country extended from the middle of Europe to the end of Asia. If needed they will mobilize entire of their population to military and they can afford it.



Russia cannot afford to compete with USA as their economy sucks.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Russia cannot afford to compete with USA as their economy sucks.


I dont think they ever had a better economy than USA.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> I dont think they ever had a better economy than USA.




They have half the economy of Soviet Union and spend half as much of GDP on defence and so have one quarter of the budget as during Cold War.
No way Russia can compete with USA ever again.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> They have half the economy of Soviet Union and spend half as much of GDP on defence and so have one quarter of the budget as during Cold War.
> No way Russia can compete with USA ever again.


Its not about GDP bro.. its about resources. They have plenty of them. Most of the Soviet Era GDP came along with liability and Russia had to carry many ailing union members of eastern europe which is not the case anymore.
I still remember Soviet Union had to import wheat from America, now Russia is a big exporter. There were hardly any gas left for export in Soviet time, now they are the big fish along with Opec.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Its not about GDP bro.. its about resources. They have plenty of them. Most of the Soviet Era GDP came along with liability and Russia had to carry many ailing union members of eastern europe which is not the case anymore.



Their SU-57 is a miserable failure.
They are behind USA, EU and are about equal with China these days. In 5-10 years China will have surpassed them.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Their SU-57 is a miserable failure.
> They are behind USA, EU and are about equal with China these days. In 5-10 years China will have surpassed them.


Dont buy this, specially Indian propaganda. Indians are idiots which rejected their own Tejas.. 
It takes time to mature a platform. Russian started working on stealth at least 20 years after USA.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> 30-40 years is a very long time.
> Remember BD is predicted to be the fastest growing large economy in the world till 2030. As time goes by, money will become less of an issue.


true...

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> okay so i got confirmation that there will be 32 mig 35 and 12 sukhoi 30... first deal will be for sukhoi 30 and more yak 130... mig 35s will come a year later.... after sukhoi delivery is complete
> 
> MIG 29 deal was good, except what happened post awami govt.... that destroyed BAF for good.
> BAF should focus more on anti aircraft guns than missiles... missile bunkers have been completed in Chittagong for LY_80.... new chinese GMLRS are on the paper with range extension plan to 800 or so km....
> 
> everything will be good if we don't deviate




If your source is accurate then BD will have only 3 sqd of 4th generation fighters, around 3 sqd of 3rd generation F7s and 2 sqd of yaks playing some kind of support role.... give or take 8 sqd.... but really 6 sqd of active frontline fighters. 

Unless this is first of a series of purchases BAF is aiming for 50% of our offensive requirement. 

I can not say i am happy but i would rather have this then nothing at all.


Would have preferred a medium term strategy of straight 10SQD of J10s with tot and maybe couple of SQD of SU.

However time is of the essence so heres hoping BAF gets this deal done.

BAFs own assessment is 10 active sqd... i would personally say BD needs to maintain 15 sqd but i am an arm chair general .... 

But without raising my hope too much i am hoping your info is correct. BAF seriously need more assets and at this stage this is good enough.

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> there is a shortage of pilots and retired pilots are being hired in NCO roles.... most likely many pilots will be sent abroad for training... so don't be surprised if you see bangladeshi cadets in turkish, pakistani, russian, saudi, Kuwait, US or UK for training in various platforms like transport/ helicopter/ fighters etc



I guess buying more trainers makes sense now. Last i heard that BAF only made 11 MRCA pilots so far.



Michael Corleone said:


> the russian clause for su30 might have something to do with it



So that Mig-35 blackmail part was true?!  Putin you dirty mofo!! 



mb444 said:


> 10SQD of J10s with tot



That's ToT part is only a wet dream. Highly unlikely.

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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> That's ToT part is only a wet dream. Highly unlikely.




Everything starts off with a dream. We do not have the technological base at the minute but you have to start somewhere.

I believe plan is being materialised to build trainers.... logical steps to build fully fledged jets. 

If there is a will there is a way, although when it comes to BAF will is in short supply.

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## Species

Michael Corleone said:


> okay so i got confirmation that there will be 32 mig 35 and 12 sukhoi 30... first deal will be for sukhoi 30 and more yak 130... mig 35s will come a year later.... after sukhoi delivery is complete



This appears to be Mig Disaster 2.0 for BAF.

Seeing the numbers, it appears Su 30s would form the maritime strike squadron which is cool. But are they planning to replace f 7s with Mig 35s? That's an imprudent choice since we have a small landmass and using twin-engine medium fighters for interceptor or land attack roles doesn't make sense considering their massive maintenance costs. Are they going for an offensive doctrine? Where will they source their budget from?

To replace F 7s, the best platforms would be J-10s or Gripens or any decent single-engine light/medium fighters.

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## UKBengali

Species said:


> This appears to be Mig Disaster 2.0 for BAF.
> 
> Seeing the numbers, it appears Su 30s would form the maritime strike squadron which is cool. But are they planning to replace f 7s with Mig 35s? That's an imprudent choice since we have a small landmass and using twin-engine medium fighters for interceptor or land attack roles doesn't make sense considering their massive maintenance costs. Are they going for an offensive doctrine? Where will they source their budget from?
> 
> To replace F 7s, the best platforms would be J-10s or Gripens or any decent single-engine light/medium fighters.



Budget is not the issue. 
By the times all these aircraft are inducted, BAF budget would have nearly doubled. 

My concern is why buy Mig-35s when BAF should be going for J-10Cs and Gripen Es.

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## Species

UKBengali said:


> Budget is not the issue.
> By the times all these aircraft are inducted, BAF budget would have nearly doubled.
> 
> My concern is why buy Mig-35s when BAF should be going for J-10Cs and Gripen Es.



Even if the budget is doubled, I don't see any justification in wasting money on unnecessarily extra maintenance costs with these twin-engined Mig 35s as the backbone fighters for BAF. Even China uses single-engined J10s as their backbone fighter despite having a huge landmass.

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## UKBengali

Species said:


> Even if the budget is doubled, I don't see any justification in wasting money on unnecessarily extra maintenance costs with these twin-engined Mig 35s as the backbone fighters for BAF. Even China uses single-engined J10s as their backbone fighter despite having a huge landmass.



Word is that BAF so badly wanted SU-30SME that they had to accept Russian blackmail and buy these Mig-35s. While more expensive to operate that say J-10C, they will be cheaper than the SU-30SMEs. Other matter is that BD would get some ToT for buying the Mig-35.


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## Species

UKBengali said:


> Word is that BAF so badly wanted SU-30SME that they had to accept Russian blackmail and buy these Mig-35s. While more expensive to operate that say J-10C, they will be cheaper than the SU-30SMEs. Other matter is that BD would get some ToT for buying the Mig-35.



Well all these blackmailing shits are only heard when it comes to deals involving Bangladesh. Myanmar also bought Su 30SMEs according to the media. Haven't heard of any blackmails against Myanmar. I'm guessing it's a result of some corruption involved.

About the ToT part, I would really like to see this happening but I would hold my horses till its official confirmation.


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## UKBengali

Species said:


> Well all these blackmailing shits are only heard when it comes to deals involving Bangladesh. Myanmar also bought Su 30SMEs according to the media. Haven't heard of any blackmails against Myanmar. I'm guessing it's a result of some corruption involved.
> 
> About the ToT part, I would really like to see this happening but I would hold my horses till its official confirmation.



Myanmar was hardly going to buy Mig-35 when they committed to JF-17 already.
Also Myanmar is so cash-strapped they could only afford 6 SU-30s.

If the source is true that BAF has brought 32 Mig-35s, then Russia gains a substantial export order for their latest 4th gen fighter which is larger than their own order.


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## Michael Corleone

Species said:


> This appears to be Mig Disaster 2.0 for BAF.
> 
> Seeing the numbers, it appears Su 30s would form the maritime strike squadron which is cool. But are they planning to replace f 7s with Mig 35s? That's an imprudent choice since we have a small landmass and using twin-engine medium fighters for interceptor or land attack roles doesn't make sense considering their massive maintenance costs. Are they going for an offensive doctrine? Where will they source their budget from?
> 
> To replace F 7s, the best platforms would be J-10s or Gripens or any decent single-engine light/medium fighters.


it's not bad as it seems// twin engine comes with it's benefits... for a country like bangladesh with many bird, foreign object in the air... two engine jet ensures if one engine goes down... there is another engine to save the pilot and not end up in a disaster.... i do not see mig 35 as an hindrance.... as long as they can get a good understanding.... these will serve us better than f-7s ever did



The Ronin said:


> I guess buying more trainers makes sense now. Last i heard that BAF only made 11 MRCA pilots so far.


i'm pretty sure existing pilots already had qualified for serving in upcoming jets... that maybe new pilot numbers.... but yes, pilot shortage exist and the amount of trainers acquired is not enough to train enough number of pilots... so they'll be sent abroad for filling the gaps quickly



The Ronin said:


> So that Mig-35 blackmail part was true?!  Putin you dirty mofo!!


eh well... bd should have known better imo... there is no brothers and sisters in international politics, just business

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## bd_4_ever

I am glad to see that the lazy BAF finally getting some work done.

However, I personally think MiG 35 isn't a bad deal, if we are also getting SU 30s. Our economy is in a good standing and we should have enough money to maintain them. Given how slow and careful our procurement usually is, I believe all obstacles must have been cleared by now. And that's why they are closing the deals.

Problem is this is putting all eggs in Russian basket. Not too sure how reliable they would be in times of conflict (if any). Not to forget, they also sided with Myanmar in the Rohingya crisis. But its strange that we changed some of our defence policies regarding China but nothing so against Russia.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> If your source is accurate then BD will have only 3 sqd of 4th generation fighters, around 3 sqd of 3rd generation F7s and 2 sqd of yaks playing some kind of support role.... give or take 8 sqd.... but really 6 sqd of active frontline fighters.
> 
> Unless this is first of a series of purchases BAF is aiming for 50% of our offensive requirement.
> 
> I can not say i am happy but i would rather have this then nothing at all.
> 
> 
> Would have preferred a medium term strategy of straight 10SQD of J10s with tot and maybe couple of SQD of SU.
> 
> However time is of the essence so heres hoping BAF gets this deal done.
> 
> BAFs own assessment is 10 active sqd... i would personally say BD needs to maintain 15 sqd but i am an arm chair general ....
> 
> But without raising my hope too much i am hoping your info is correct. BAF seriously need more assets and at this stage this is good enough.


i hope it works out the way i've been informed... i can't speak about anything anymore as i've been told not to...
but yeah... this is not the end... just the beginning. this must be the strength by the golden jubilee of the country if god willing...
at this point i just want to see them get some modern hardware without any clause and hiccups

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## Avicenna

bd_4_ever said:


> I am glad to see that the lazy BAF finally getting some work done.
> 
> However, I personally think MiG 35 isn't a bad deal, if we are also getting SU 30s. Our economy is in a good standing and we should have enough money to maintain them. Given how slow and careful our procurement usually is, I believe all obstacles must have been cleared by now. And that's why they are closing the deals.
> 
> Problem is this is putting all eggs in Russian basket. Not too sure how reliable they would be in times of conflict (if any). Not to forget, they also sided with Myanmar in the Rohingya crisis. But its strange that we changed some of our defence policies regarding China but nothing so against Russia.



I'm guessing the thinking behind this apparent faith in Russia is cold hard cash.

In potential conflict with Myanmar, the Russians will likely support whoever has more to offer.

As Bangaldesh can probably at this time afford more than Myanmar, I guess the Russians would be likely not to hurt BD interests as BD will now become a major export market for Russian wares with this reported deal.

On the other hand, in any remote conflict with India, BD is (rhymes with bucked but starts with an f).

In fact, I am sure the Indians and Russians have discussed this deal and have pushed their own interests given the kind of bitches they are when their neighbors buy weapons.

In my opinion, I'm glad BAF is finally getting stuff in substantial numbers.

But I'm not happy with the choice.

This reported deal sets up a fork in the road for the next 50 years.

I wouldn't have chosen it.

Gripen and J-10 would have been my choice.

But all we can do here is type on keyboards.

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## TopCat

What will be K-8 used for if BAF decides solely russian fighters

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> What will be K-8 used for if BAF decides solely russian fighters



Primary jet trainer.

I don’t think it really matters what the pilots move on to.

I could be wrong.


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## AMG_12

UKBengali said:


> Myanmar was hardly going to buy Mig-35 when they committed to JF-17 already.
> Also Myanmar is so cash-strapped they could only afford 6 SU-30s.
> 
> If the source is true that BAF has brought 32 Mig-35s, then Russia gains a substantial export order for their latest 4th gen fighter which is larger than their own order.


Any official word on the procurement? (bdmilitary and hearsay aren't official)
Going by your logic of "cash strapped", they procured 16 Thunders and 6 Sukhois. In contrast, BAF is still claims and rumors. *A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush*. 
@Imran Khan

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## Avicenna

Game.Invade said:


> Any official word on the procurement? (bdmilitary and hearsay aren't official)
> Going by your logic of "cash strapped", they procured 16 Thunders and 6 Sukhois. In contrast, BAF is still claims and rumors. *A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush*.
> @Imran Khan



UAC officials are talking about it.

No numbers mentioned.

Also BD can probably afford a hell of a lot more than you give credit for.

Potentially 32 MiG-35 and 12 SU-30SME is quite a sizable purchase if true.

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## AMG_12

Avicenna said:


> UAC officials are talking about it.
> 
> No numbers mentioned.
> 
> Also BD can probably afford a hell of a lot more than you give credit for.
> 
> Potentially 32 MiG-35 and 12 SU-30SME is quite a sizable purchase if true.


Please, it's not a question of economics. Cash strapped Countries like Pakistan & Myanmar are procuring at a higher pace than BD, so it has little to do with affordability. Let's not derail it. To me, it's the geopolitical implications of a strong BD military that is stagnating its growth. 
Does it make sense to procure 2 different kinds of twin-engined fighters?


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## Avicenna

Game.Invade said:


> Please, it's not a question of economics. Cash strapped Countries like Pakistan & Myanmar are procuring at a higher pace than BD, so it has little to do with affordability. Let's not derail it. To me, it's the geopolitical implications of a strong BD military that is stagnating its growth.
> Does it make sense to procure 2 different kinds of twin-engined fighters?



That’s a good question.

And a complex one.

I wish I had the ability to know the rational for this reported choice.

Any path BAF chose would come with its own set of pros and cons.

I really wonder what the procurement guys were thinking when they came up what this plan.

(If true)

I started off hating this reported purchase.

But the more I think about it, it’s not that bad and there is some benefit to this path.

Procuring fighters is as much if not more so political than tactical.

If this reported purchase is true, it says a lot about what BD thinks about the various traditional weapons suppliers in its history.

Or it could just be that the decision makers are incompetent.

Time will tell.

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## AMG_12

Avicenna said:


> That’s a good question.
> 
> And a complex one.
> 
> I wish I had the ability to know the rational for this reported choice.
> 
> Any path BAF chose would come with its own set of pros and cons.
> 
> I really wonder what the procurement guys were thinking when they came up what this plan.
> 
> (If true)
> 
> I started off hating this reported purchase.
> 
> But the more I think about it, it’s not that bad and there is some benefit to this path.
> 
> Procuring fighters is as much if not more so political than tactical.
> 
> If this reported purchase is true, it says a lot about what BD thinks about the various traditional weapons suppliers in its history.
> 
> Or it could just be that the decision makers are incompetent.
> 
> Time will tell.


It's also about knowing and acknowledging your enemy and future adversary. This to me is a determining factor in weapon procurement. Pakistan has stuck to Indian centric weapons since it's existence with slight modification as we learn from our mistakes and realize our shortcomings. Wish BD all the best.

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## Avicenna

Game.Invade said:


> It's also about knowing and acknowledging your enemy and future adversary. This to me is a determining factor in weapon procurement. Pakistan has stuck to Indian centric weapons since it's existence with slight modification as we learn from our mistakes and realize our shortcomings. Wish BD all the best.



Yea if this reported purchase is true, BD has been neutered in regards to India.

This is for Myanmar.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Yea if this reported purchase is true, BD has been neutered in regards to India.
> 
> This is for Myanmar.



I do not think we can rule out BAF also going for J-10Cs as well, say 5 years in the future.
If the reports of BD growth up to 2030 are true, then BAF funds will grow very fast up to then. Plenty of money will be available to buy some squadrons of Chinese fighters.
The one reason that I have hope for J-10C is the large purchase of K-8s last summer - Yak-130 can do everything this can do and so makes little sense to buy this as it is not substantially cheaper.
BAF may have been persuaded the Mig-35 was not such a bad
idea as it already operates Mig-29 which is basically the same plane.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I do not think we can rule out BAF also going for J-10Cs as well, say 5 years in the future.
> If the reports of BD growth up to 2030 are true, then BAF funds will grow very fast up to then. Plenty of money will be available to buy some squadrons of Chinese fighters.
> The one reason that I have hope for KJ-10C is the large purchase of K-8s last summer - Yak-130 can do everything this can do and so makes little sense to buy this as it is not substantially cheaper.
> BAF may have been persuaded the Mig-35 was not such a bad
> idea as it already operates Mig-29 which is basically the same plane.



It makes NO sense for BD to buy J-10 and MiG-35.

Also K-8 is the initial jet trainer with pilots moving on to YAK-130.

The advantage of the Yak is its ability to simulate flight characteristics of the more advanced Russian fighters while being cheaper to operate than its two seat variants.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> It makes NO sense for BD to buy J-10 and MiG-35.
> 
> Also K-8 is the initial jet trainer with pilots moving on to YAK-130.
> 
> The advantage of the Yak is its ability to simulate flight characteristics of the more advanced Russian fighters while being cheaper to operate than its two seat variants.



I kind of agree with you.
Buying both Mig-35 and J-10C is dumb.
From my understanding, pilots can move straight onto Yak-130 without K-8 intermediate trainer . Reason I say this is that the RAF here operates one propeller trainer and one jet trainer. There is no intermediate jet trainer required.
My hope is that BAF was so desperate for SU-30 and brought the Mig-35 which is good enough for Myanmar, thinking that it will have enough money in 5 years to then go Chinese.
BAF will have a large enough budget to operate 3 fighters as the economy looks set to stay strong.
Dumb I know but we are talking about BD and BAF here!

Edit - as far as I am aware you can move straight from K-8 to J-10C 2 seater for final training. BAF may have purchased no less than 23 K-8s last summer.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I kind of agree with you.
> Buying both Mig-35 and J-10C is dumb.
> From my understanding, pilots can move straight onto Yak-130 without K-8 intermediate trainer . Reason I say this is that the RAF here operates one propeller trainer and one jet trainer. There is no intermediate jet trainer required.
> My hope is that BAF was so desperate for SU-30 and brought the Mig-35 which is good enough for Myanmar, thinking that it will have enough money in 5 years to then go Chinese.
> BAF will have a large enough budget to operate 3 fighters as the economy looks set to stay strong.
> Dumb I know but we are talking about BD and BAF here!



I’m really disappointed in BAF.

I would love to know their thought process behind this decision.

If there is any redeeming factors to buying the -35 and -30SME.

It’s that they are new build examples.

Russia is or will be operating them.

Other countries have also bought them.

For the Sukhoi, specifically Malaysia and Indonesia.

Perhaps BD can work closer with those two countries and learn from their experiences with the platform.

Also, no matter how you look at it, 32 MiG-35 and 12 Su-30SME is a lot of firepower.

Now the question is if it’s really true.

And moreover, BAF need to train capable people to fly these things.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I’m really disappointed in BAF.
> 
> I would love to know their thought process behind this decision.
> 
> If there is any redeeming factors to buying the -35 and -30SME.
> 
> It’s that they are new build examples.
> 
> Russia is or will be operating them.
> 
> Other countries have also bought them.
> 
> For the Sukhoi, specifically Malaysia and Indonesia.
> 
> Perhaps BD can work closer with those two countries and learn from their experiences with the platform.
> 
> Also, no matter how you look at it, 32 MiG-35 and 12 Su-30SME is a lot of firepower.
> 
> Now the question is if it’s really true.
> 
> And moreover, BAF need to train capable people to fly these things.



I am inclined to think this is true as both Hasina and a minister talked about advanced fighter aircraft procurements last year. The minister even was specific about naval strike fighters (SU-30SME?).
Despite the fact that BAF should have gone for either J-10C or Gripen E instead of Mig-35, I am pleased that if this is true MAF will have been totally neutralised. Mig-35 should at least be able to hold it's own against MAF JF-17s and will be superior to their more numerous Mig-29s. In essence BAF will attain air superiority against MAF and this is at least something to be pleased about.

Now what about AWACs, can you integrate say either Chinese or Swedish AWACs with Mig-35/SU-30SME?


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I am inclined to think this is true as both Hasina and a minister talked about advanced fighter aircraft procurements last year. The minister even was specific about naval strike fighters (SU-30SME?).
> Despite the fact that BAF should have gone for either J-10C or Gripen E instead of Mig-35, I am pleased that if this is true MAF will have been totally neutralised. Mig-35 should at least be able to hold it's own against MAF JF-17s and will be superior to their more numerous Mig-29s. In essence BAF will attain air superiority against MAF and this is at least something to be pleased about.
> 
> Now what about AWACs, can you integrate say either Chinese or Swedish AWACs with Mig-35/SU-30SME?



About the AWACS I have no idea.

Also, MiG-35 has the advantage of two engines for potential over sea operations.

However, other than that, I’m not sure how it’s superior to a JF-17, especially a potentially Block 3 Thunder.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> About the AWACS I have no idea.
> 
> Also, MiG-35 has the advantage of two engines for potential over sea operations.
> 
> However, other than that, I’m not sure how it’s superior to a JF-17, especially a potentially Block 3 Thunder.



After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.
However Myanmar may not be able to afford many more fighters soon as I think JF-17 Block 3 will be lethal.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.
> However Myanmar may not be able to afford many more fighters soon as I think JF-17 Block 3 will be lethal.



I think I have been wrong.

Chinese hardware may have caught up to the West.

If that’s the case, JF-17M worries me.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I think I have been wrong.
> 
> Chinese hardware may have caught up to the West.
> 
> If that’s the case, JF-17M worries me.




Still think that Gripen E will outgun JF-17 Block 3 but it may not be much superior. Gripen E will at least have the advantage of superior networking between multiple fighters. 

From what can be gleaned it seems that PAF totally jammed the hell out of the Indian Russian and Jewish systems on February the 27th. 

Interestingly I read a report from a Chinese radar expert years ago(sorry did not bookmark the link!) who claimed that China is only behind the USA in radar technology. No idea how he came to that conclusion but he may not be far off the mark!

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Still think that Gripen E will outgun JF-17 Block 3 but it may not be much superior. Gripen E will at least have the advantage of superior networking between multiple fighters.
> 
> From what can be gleaned it seems that PAF totally jammed the hell out of the Indian Russian and Jewish systems on February the 27th.
> 
> Interestingly I read a report from a Chinese radar expert years ago(sorry did not bookmark the link!) who claimed that China is only behind the USA in radar technology. No idea how he came to that conclusion but he may not be far off the mark!



What really concerns me is the trajectory that the Russians and Chinese are taking.

Chinese aviation seems to be ascending while Russian aviation seems to be descending.

The prospect of Myanmar fielding PL-15 specifically concerns me.

Also FC-31 may be in the cards eventually, if not some other completely new 5th gen design in the future.

So Myanmar has a nice pipeline there.

As for BD, if it goes Russian, the SU-57 isn’t reputed to be all that good.

China seems to be Uber active.

Russia, not so much.

If I was BD, I would have bought Western AND Chinese and not involved Russia.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> What really concerns me is the trajectory that the Russians and Chinese are taking.
> 
> Chinese aviation seems to be ascending while Russian aviation seems to be descending.
> 
> The prospect of Myanmar fielding PL-15 specifically concerns me.
> 
> Also FC-31 may be in the cards eventually, if not some other completely new 5th gen design in the future.
> 
> So Myanmar has a nice pipeline there
> 
> As for BD, if it goes Russian, the SU-57 isn’t reputed to be all that good.
> 
> China seems to be Uber active.
> 
> Russia, not so much.
> 
> If I was BD, I would have bought Western AND Chinese and not involved Russia.




I am confident that China would have sold BD J-10C or J-10 with an AESA radar and the deadly SD-10A at the very least. This would have been enough for SU-30MKI, although not for Rafale with AESA and Meteor. J-10C with PL-15 would be capable of facing Rafale with Meteor I am sure.

India has rejected SU-57 and Russia hardly seems keen. By all accounts that aircraft is not 5th gen in the league of either US F-22/F-35 or even Chinese J-20.

As for Myanmar getting FC-31, that is not likely before 2030 as there seems to be little progress on that. PAF is working on Project AZM and that is the direction they are heading towards and so that is an indication that FC-31 is not making much progress.

JF-17 Block 3 with PL-15 would be able to obliterate both Mig-35 and SU-30SME it seems and that is massive worry.

If this is true, it is disappointing but it is better than having practically no airforce at all.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> I kind of agree with you.
> Buying both Mig-35 and J-10C is dumb.
> From my understanding, pilots can move straight onto Yak-130 without K-8 intermediate trainer . Reason I say this is that the RAF here operates one propeller trainer and one jet trainer. There is no intermediate jet trainer required.
> My hope is that BAF was so desperate for SU-30 and brought the Mig-35 which is good enough for Myanmar, thinking that it will have enough money in 5 years to then go Chinese.
> BAF will have a large enough budget to operate 3 fighters as the economy looks set to stay strong.
> Dumb I know but we are talking about BD and BAF here!
> 
> Edit - as far as I am aware you can move straight from K-8 to J-10C 2 seater for final training. BAF may have purchased no less than 23 K-8s last summer.


i don't think that will happen... at least not chinese fighter.... 
i guess BAF bought those k8 so that rookie pilots could get their flight hours up in that and to keep the YAK flight hours in check... idk, don't quote me on that but this could be one reason



UKBengali said:


> After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.
> However Myanmar may not be able to afford many more fighters soon as I think JF-17 Block 3 will be lethal.


you also have to count the training.... indian pilots i guess are still inferior. back in the days... india had the numerical and technological advantage... but that didn't stop few numbered less technologically advanced pakistani planes to shoot them down.


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> i don't think that will happen... at least not chinese fighter....
> i guess BAF bought those k8 so that rookie pilots could get their flight hours up in that and to keep the YAK flight hours in check... idk, don't quote me on that but this could be one reason
> 
> 
> you also have to count the training.... indian pilots i guess are still inferior. back in the days... india had the numerical and technological advantage... but that didn't stop few numbered less technologically advanced pakistani planes to shoot them down.



K-8 is the first jet new pilots are gonna train on.

Probably much cheaper to buy and operate than a YAK.

They perform two different roles.

The YAK probably substitutes the training in two seat versions of the supersonic fighters because it’s cheaper to operate and also confer a limited ground attack role.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Interestingly I read a report from a Chinese radar expert years ago(sorry did not bookmark the link!) who claimed that China is only behind the USA in radar technology. No idea how he came to that conclusion but he may not be far off the mark!


they've made many substantial claims over the years.... many of which is in the realms of sci- fi



Avicenna said:


> As for BD, if it goes Russian, the SU-57 isn’t reputed to be all that good.


what makes you say that? 



UKBengali said:


> India has rejected SU-57 and Russia hardly seems keen. By all accounts that aircraft is not 5th gen in the league of either US F-22/F-35 or even Chinese J-20.


india rejected sukhoi because it wanted full TOT while russia was willing to only give it partial access, indians claimed earlier that it is jointly involved in developing the russian fighter which was not the case and the russians wanted more money for india to get access to things they developed from scratch... tbh i wouldn't keep j-20 ahead of su-57 in any way... the f-22 have lower radar signature but without proper upgrade program for it... i fear su-57 might have already caught upto it in many aspects.... if i were to choose between the f22 and su57... i would get in a su 57 any time of the day.... however, the japanese plan to acquire f22 design to improve upon seems promising, in which case i'm pretty sure all cons related to f22 will be ironed out and then there's no beating that plane.....

j-20 is more of a f35 with more payload and speed... it's meant to be hidden and strike from a distance... not dogfight like the f22 or su 57



Avicenna said:


> K-8 is the first jet new pilots are gonna train on.
> 
> Probably much cheaper to buy and operate than a YAK.
> 
> They perform two different roles.
> 
> The YAK probably substitutes the training in two seat versions of the supersonic fighters because it’s cheaper to operate and also confer a limited ground attack role.


i guess, but this is all up for debate, cons of not having an insight look into the workings of BAF


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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.



Did PAF actually used JF-17? Only credible evidence was that American AA missile from fired from F-16, so yes they used F-16. And shooting IAF Mig-21 was the only other thing with proof. The rest were pure BS and propaganda. Also how did you came to that conclusion? these two haven't meet each others yet.



Avicenna said:


> Also FC-31 may be in the cards eventually, if not some other completely new 5th gen design in the future.



Even if they plan about it it will take years. AVIC still hasn't started full production of FC-31. After strengthening BAF's fire-power, lets say after 2025 they can also start considering about 5th gen. Hopefully by that time Turkish and Korean 5th gen fighter jet project will be completed including Chinese and Russian ones.



UKBengali said:


> India has rejected SU-57 and Russia hardly seems keen. By all accounts that aircraft is not 5th gen in the league of either US F-22/F-35 or even Chinese J-20.



Another made up BS claim? Su-57 maybe totally not on par with F-22 but how it's not better than F-35 or J-20? The F-35 can't internally carry more weapons than Su-57, the only advantage it has is it's technological edge. 



Michael Corleone said:


> the japanese plan to acquire f22 design to improve upon seems promising, in which case i'm pretty sure all cons related to f22 will be ironed out and then there's no beating that plane



Didn't US refuse to share their F-22 tech with Japs?

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## mb444

I fail to understand how jf17 block one could possibly be better than the mig-35.

The latter is twin engined with longer range, more payload, faster, higher service ceiling.

All a mig needs to do is fly higher to neutralize JF17.

It could be my understanding is wrong. Can anyone correct my understanding.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> I fail to understand how jf17 block one could possibly be better than the mig-35.
> 
> The latter is twin engined with longer range, more payload, faster, higher service ceiling.
> 
> All a mig needs to do is fly higher to neutralize JF17.
> 
> It could be my understanding is wrong. Can anyone correct my understanding.



Yea I would think it’s a complex question.

Every platform has its inherent advantages and disadvantages.

It’s also a function of the way the platforms are utilized via tactics as well as quality of the pilots as well as the support and particular situation of the particular engangment.

For the Thunder, it appears to have a small visual and RCS, excellent manuverablility in the horizontal plane, and a capable BVR capability.

Two engines on the Fulcrum is an advantage over the water but is more expensive to operate.

However most notably the upgrade path to the Mig-35 is limited.

The Thunder is a much younger design with more potential for maturation and upgrade.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Yea I would think it’s a complex question.
> 
> Every platform has its inherent advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> It’s also a function of the way the platforms are utilized via tactics as well as quality of the pilots as well as the support and particular situation of the particular engangment.
> 
> For the Thunder, it appears to have a small visual and RCS, excellent manuverablility in the horizontal plane, and a capable BVR capability.
> 
> Two engines on the Fulcrum is an advantage over the water but is more expensive to operate.
> 
> However most notably the upgrade path to the Mig-35 is limited.
> 
> The Thunder is a much younger design with more potential for maturation and upgrade.



I accept what you say. But we should not write off the russians. Chinese are progressing but russia is a bona fide technological power that is keeping the entire western union in check.

Mig 35 flys at mach 2.2 with better rader with a service ceiling of 19k whilst jf17 with mach 1.6 with service ceiling of 16k.

JF 17 is not stealth it can not evade rader. Dog fight i just can not see happening between migs and the bandars jf17.

It would be mig vs mig and mig 35 is better than theirs.

If BAF gets migs backed by Su .... just can not see JF17 block one doing anything at all. JF17 will only conceivably win against f7s.

Jf17 vs mig21 was a differing proposition.

I just can not see BAF not doing analysis on this.

However i agree with you... would have preferred not going with the russians. But a fighing force of twin engined jets maybe expensive but gives BAF massive penetrative and loitering capacity.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> I accept what you say. But we should not write off the russians. Chinese are progressing but russia is a bona fide technological power that is keeping the entire western union in check.
> 
> Mig 35 flys at mach 2.2 with better rader with a service ceiling of 19k whilst jf17 with mach 1.6 with service ceiling of 16k.
> 
> JF 17 is not stealth it can not evade rader. Dog fight i just can not see happening between migs and the bandars jf17.
> 
> It would be mig vs mig and mig 35 is better than theirs.
> 
> If BAF gets migs backed by Su .... just can not see JF17 block one doing anything at all. JF17 will only conceivably win against f7s.
> 
> Jf17 vs mig21 was a differing proposition.
> 
> I just can not see BAF not doing analysis on this.
> 
> However i agree with you... would have preferred not going with the russians. But a fighing force of twin engined jets maybe expensive but gives BAF massive penetrative and loitering capacity.



The upper range of speed is mostly theoretical. It takes a lot of gas to get up there as well as time. It’s not really relevant to most combat scenarios with possibly the exception of BVR with the advantage of more kinetic energy prior to launch giving increased range to the misslies launched in the faster and higher aircraft. But I am talking above my comfort level in the validity of that statement.

At the end of the day the Russian Air Force flies the SU-30SM and will fly the MiG-35.

Certainly if nothing else, what’s good enough for the Russian Air Force is good enough for the Bangladesh Air Force.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> The upper range of speed is mostly theoretical. It takes a lot of gas to get up there as well as time. It’s not really relevant to most combat scenarios with possibly the exception of BVR with the advantage of more kinetic energy prior to launch giving increased range to the misslies launched in the faster and higher aircraft. But I am talking above my comfort level in the validity of that statement.
> 
> At the end of the day the Russian Air Force flies the SU-30SM and will fly the MiG-35.
> 
> Certainly if nothing else, what’s good enough for the Russian Air Force is good enough for the Bangladesh Air Force.




Thanks for your reply. I still doubt this news and numbers.

Given the choice is russian, chinese or western we are hardly spoilt for choice. Given the immediate threat that the bandars pose russians are likely the best partner in conflict.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I still doubt this news and numbers.
> 
> Given the choice is russian, chinese or western we are hardly spoilt for choice. Given the immediate threat that the bandars pose russians are likely the best partner in conflict.



I used to be a real peacenik when it came to BD.

But this whole Rohingya thing and the vitriol from Burma makes me think Bangladesh needs to treat its defense more seriously.

I think the best path forward is to keep the peace.

Improve the economy and infrastructure.

And improve human development.

This ultimately opens up more options in regards to defense acquisition in due time.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> I used to be a real peacenik when it came to BD.
> 
> But this whole Rohingya thing and the vitriol from Burma makes me think Bangladesh needs to treat its defense more seriously.
> 
> I think the best path forward is to keep the peace.
> 
> Improve the economy and infrastructure.
> 
> And improve human development.
> 
> This ultimately opens up more options in regards to defense acquisition in due time.




Absolutely. BD needs to play the game. It has to be economy that is the focus. Strong economy is what we need. A nation of homogenious 165m ppl is simply unconquerable.

The bandars are a minor headache. But as the economy increases BDs posture needs to be to always extend the hand of peace but always prepared to turn it into a mailed fist when necessary.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Did PAF actually used JF-17? Only credible evidence was that American AA missile from fired from F-16, so yes they used F-16. And shooting IAF Mig-21 was the only other thing with proof. The rest were pure BS and propaganda. Also how did you came to that conclusion? these two haven't meet each others yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if they plan about it it will take years. AVIC still hasn't started full production of FC-31. After strengthening BAF's fire-power, lets say after 2025 they can also start considering about 5th gen. Hopefully by that time Turkish and Korean 5th gen fighter jet project will be completed including Chinese and Russian ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Another made up BS claim? Su-57 maybe totally not on par with F-22 but how it's not better than F-35 or J-20? The F-35 can't internally carry more weapons than Su-57, the only advantage it has is it's technological edge.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't US refuse to share their F-22 tech with Japs?


They’re considering selling it so that US wouldn’t have to spent a dime in development cost for upgraded component


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## SABRE

So, has there been any confirmation on what BAF is buying?


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## Avicenna

SABRE said:


> So, has there been any confirmation on what BAF is buying?



Nope.

Nothing official.

Just rumblings from UAC that some sort of activity is going on.

No concrete numbers or specific type or types.


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## PDF

Please stop referring to Burmese in abusive manner. Let's mantain civility. Disciplinary action will be followed if rules are violated.
Thank you.

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## monitor

অস্ট্রেলিয়ার Trakkabeam Company বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর মেরিটাইম সার্চ এন্ড রেসকিউ হেলিকপ্টার AW-139 এর জন্য A800 STC সার্চ লাইট এবং Power Control Interface Unit (PCIU) ও Trakka Control Pannel এর ডেলিভারি দিয়েছে (প্রথম ছবি)

এগুলো বাংলাদেশ বিমানবাহিনীর AW-139 হেলিকপ্টারগুলোতে ইউজ করা হবে।এছাড়া বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর AW-109 হেলিকপ্টারেও এই সার্চলাইট ইউজ করা হয়।

একইসাথে বিমানবাহিনী গত ডিসেম্বর মাসে ডেলিভারি পাওয়া AW-139 গুলো অপারেশনাল করেছে।দ্বিতীয় ছবিতে আমাদের নতুন AW-139 SAR হেলিকপ্টার চট্টগ্রামের জহুরুল হক বিমানঘাঁটিতে অবস্থান করছে

See Translation

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## Avicenna

I used to watch these documentaries way back in the 90's.

This one is about the MiG-29.

Enjoy.

It makes me a little excited about the prospect of MiG-35 coming.

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## Tagaung

32 mig 35 and 12 su 30...! 
Are you guys trolling or serious. I dont think Bangladesh military budget can afford that.
In my opinion, 8-12 aircraft of 4+ generation is more likely to be possible.

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## BDforever

Tagaung said:


> 32 mig 35 and 12 su 30...!
> Are you guys trolling or serious. I dont think Bangladesh military budget can afford that.
> In my opinion, 8-12 aircraft of 4+ generation is more likely to be possible.


with your around $ 2.5 billion budget, you can afford jf17, su30 etc but we can't with bigger budget ! ! !

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## Tagaung

BDforever said:


> with your around $ 2.5 billion budget, you can afford jf17, su30 etc but we can't with bigger budget ! ! !


it is true that you guys have more budget, i think it is about $ 3.9 billion, but most of it you spend is on personals and generals,
that is why you guys only spend around 11.52 billion Bangladesh taka or $ 137 million on military acquisitions.
while we spend around 33% of $ 2.3 billion on procurement and operation, so about 750 million dollars on weapons.

source
https://www.janes.com/article/80793/bangladesh-announces-usd3-45-billion-defence-budget

TBH, i wish our military to spend more on personal to make our soldiers lives a bit more better.


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## BDforever

Tagaung said:


> it is true that you guys have more budget, i think it is about $ 3.9 billion, but most of it you spend is on personals and generals,
> that is why you guys only spend around 11.52 billion Bangladesh taka or $ 137 million on military acquisitions.
> while we spend around 33% of $ 2.3 billion on procurement and operation, so about 750 million dollars on weapons.
> 
> source
> https://www.janes.com/article/80793/bangladesh-announces-usd3-45-billion-defence-budget
> 
> TBH, i wish our military to spend more on personal to make our soldiers lives a bit more better.


yes we spend good amount on personal but does not mean we spend more than $3.5 billion USD 
it is tricky budgeting, like it includes training, new bases etc and whatever left goes to procurement and later adjusted increased budget allocated if needed 
give you simple examples, you can't buy 16 yak130 with that procurement budgets or buy 2 C13B corvette (type056 version), BDarmy also earn from UN mission as well as from Kuwait govt and now from Saudi govt. for our military bases there as well as they participate in different govt. infrastructural projects, so you can assume our defence budget is around $4.5 billion and you can split 60% for procurement and rest 40% for other stuffs.


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## Tagaung

BDforever said:


> yes we spend good amount on personal but does not mean we spend more than $3.5 billion USD
> it is tricky budgeting, like it includes training, new bases etc and whatever left goes to procurement and later adjusted increased budget allocated if needed
> give you simple examples, you can't buy 16 yak130 with that procurement budgets or buy 2 C13B corvette (type056 version), BDarmy also earn from UN mission as well as from Kuwait govt and now from Saudi govt. for our military bases there as well as they participate in different govt. infrastructural projects, so you can assume our defence budget is around $4.5 billion and you can split 60% for procurement and rest 40% for other stuffs.


Are you a senior officer in BD military? if not i cannot take your word for it, sorry. give me a reliable source for your claim. I give the janes magazine as a source for the claim that BD military only spend around $ 137 million in weapons. you have to do the same if you want to claim otherwise, bro.
To be clear, i am not insulting you guys, i just think that your military leadership is incompetent or corrupt or both.

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## BDforever

Tagaung said:


> Are you a senior officer in BD military? if not i cannot take your word for it, sorry. give me a reliable source for your claim. I give the janes magazine as a source for the claim that BD military only spend around $ 137 million in weapons. you have to do the same if you want to claim otherwise, bro.
> To be clear, i am not insulting you guys, i just think that your military leadership is incompetent or corrupt or both.


lets keep that way

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## Tagaung

BDforever said:


> lets keep that way


ok
any more pictures of this event?





is that a heavy machine gun? looks really nice.

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## BDforever

Tagaung said:


> ok
> any more pictures of this event?
> 
> View attachment 552003
> is that a heavy machine gun? looks really nice.


no more pictures 
and that is ATGM Metis-M1 , bring your tank

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## Tagaung

BDforever said:


> no more pictures
> and that is ATGM Metis-M1 , bring your tank


no way, those things are really nasty in syrian and iraqi civil war. good choice.

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## BDforever

Tagaung said:


> no way, those things are really nasty in syrian and iraqi civil war. good choice.


we also have PF-98, on the other hand RPG-29 and Carl Gustov M4s are also coming

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## Tagaung

BDforever said:


> we also have PF-98, on the other hand RPG-29 and Carl Gustov M4s are also coming


Carl Gustov M4s are also good for bunker busting as well. we use it in Kachin conflict. you guys are really lucky that you dont have civil conflict.

have you guys decided on what to buy for multirole aircraft??

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-airforce-inviting-tender-for-8-mrca.480735/ 
this thread is from feb 2017. I haven't heard any news since then.
Here's my Honest advice guys, take it or leave it. you guys need to look into your air force generals or MoD
senior officers for corruptions.

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## BDforever

Tagaung said:


> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-airforce-inviting-tender-for-8-mrca.480735/
> this thread is from feb 2017. I haven't heard any news since then.
> Here's my Honest advice guys, take it or leave it. you guys need to look into your air force generals or MoD
> senior officers for corruptions.


deal has been made, but can't say since there is no official declaration. One thing I can tell you, whatever is coming will create lot of headache in the region. Our defence equipment is getting mixed of East and West techs

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## UKBengali

Tagaung said:


> Are you a senior officer in BD military? if not i cannot take your word for it, sorry. give me a reliable source for your claim. I give the janes magazine as a source for the claim that BD military only spend around $ 137 million in weapons. you have to do the same if you want to claim otherwise, bro.
> To be clear, i am not insulting you guys, i just think that your military leadership is incompetent or corrupt or both.



Dude, that figure is for internal weapons procurements. 
Imports are budgeted separately.

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## Tagaung

UKBengali said:


> Dude, that figure is for internal weapons procurements.
> Imports are budgeted separately.


if you read the article i cited, you would know it's not true.
If you haven't read it, here is the summary. 
In the Janes defence article, BD military budget is BDT 290 billion ($ 3.45 billion).
BD military budget allocates BTD279.1 billion for “non-development expenditure”, including military salaries and costs for maintenance and operations, and BTD11.52 billion for “development expenditure”, including military acquisitions.
so 279 + 11= 290 billion BDT which is 3.45 billion USD. the math adds up.

So unless you manage to create money out of thin air, there is no way.
And I haven't heard of any other military that are budgeted separately for import weapons from Military budget. you are welcome to prove me wrong by citing a reliable source.

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## tarpitz

Tagaung said:


> if you read the article i cited, you would know it's not true.
> If you haven't read it, here is the summary.
> In the Janes defence article, BD military budget is BDT 290 billion ($ 3.45 billion).
> BD military budget allocates BTD279.1 billion for “non-development expenditure”, including military salaries and costs for maintenance and operations, and BTD11.52 billion for “development expenditure”, including military acquisitions.
> so 279 + 11= 290 billion BDT which is 3.45 billion USD. the math adds up.
> 
> So unless you manage to create money out of thin air, there is no way.
> And I haven't heard of any other military that are budgeted separately for import weapons from Military budget. you are welcome to prove me wrong by citing a reliable source.


[emoji1787][emoji23][emoji38][emoji3]

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## ghost250

tarpitz said:


> [emoji1787][emoji23][emoji38][emoji3]


https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...HhyspAYFWECpFPduAPK6yQWW4f4jnPtRGVE5fI1R-Mqo8 

*Military Captain, Squadron Killed by AA Rebels in N. Rakhine*

YANGON — A Myanmar military, or Tatmadaw, captain and his entire squad were killed during a clash with troops of the Arakan Army (AA) in a remote area of northern Rakhine State’s Buthidaung Township on Friday, according to military sources and relatives of the victims.




By MOE MYINT 8 April 2019

YANGON — A Myanmar military, or Tatmadaw, captain and his entire squad were killed during a clash with troops of the Arakan Army (AA) in a remote area of northern Rakhine State’s Buthidaung Township on Friday, according to military sources and relatives of the victims.

Brig-Gen Zaw Min Tun of the Office of the Commander in Chief acknowledged that Capt. Chit Ko Ko was killed along with some other troops in a battle with the AA on Friday. He declined to provide a total death toll of army troops.

A long-time friend of Capt. Chit Ko Ko, Saw Lwin Saw, wrote a post on his Facebook page on Friday claiming that the crew comprised not more than 20 soldiers led by Capt. Chit Ko Ko was ordered by their commander to attack AA fighters in Buthidaung’s War Net Yone region situated near the border with Bangladesh on Friday.

The squad was unexpectedly surrounded on every side by AA rebels. In the fighting, his friend was hit with a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) and afterwards, other government troops were not able to retrieve his body, he said.

Saw Lwin Saw said that his friend had been on duty in Monywa, Sagaing Region, but was recently summoned for reinforcement to Ann Township, Rakhine State where the military’s Western Command has their base. Some Facebook users took to the social media platform to criticize Capt. Chit Ko Ko’s senior commander for failing to supply additional troops while his crew was surrounded.

The Arakan Army (AA) announced battle updates via its website on Saturday, reporting that its fighters had fought with about 150 military troops from the Ann-based Light Infantry Battalion (LIB) No. 373 in the War Net Yone region, close to the border on Friday and that about 12 government soldiers were killed.

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## UKBengali

Tagaung said:


> if you read the article i cited, you would know it's not true.
> If you haven't read it, here is the summary.
> In the Janes defence article, BD military budget is BDT 290 billion ($ 3.45 billion).
> BD military budget allocates BTD279.1 billion for “non-development expenditure”, including military salaries and costs for maintenance and operations, and BTD11.52 billion for “development expenditure”, including military acquisitions.
> so 279 + 11= 290 billion BDT which is 3.45 billion USD. the math adds up.
> 
> So unless you manage to create money out of thin air, there is no way.
> And I haven't heard of any other military that are budgeted separately for import weapons from Military budget. you are welcome to prove me wrong by citing a reliable source.




Dude you stupid?

Let us look at BD arms imports:

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/bangladesh/arms-imports

2012 206,000,000
2013 662,000,000
2014 201,000,000
2015 625,000,000
2016 438,000,000


So we see that there was a total of 2.132 billion dollars over 2012-2016 which comes to over 400 million dollars per year.

Arms imports are SEPARATE from the defence budget.


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## Michael Corleone

Tagaung said:


> Carl Gustov M4s are also good for bunker busting as well. we use it in Kachin conflict. you guys are really lucky that you dont have civil conflict


That’s because we don’t go about killing our countrymen for their religion or sects

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## bluesky

BDforever said:


> no more pictures
> and that is ATGM Metis-M1 , bring your tank







*

Specifications


Weight* 13.8 kg
*Length* 980 mm
*Diameter* 130 mm
*Warhead* HEAT tandem warhead, Armor penetration behind 900-950 mm. Thermobaric anti-personnel/anti-material warhead is also available.
*Engine* solid-fuel rocket
*Operational range *
0.08 - 2 km
*Speed* 200 m/s
*Guidance
system *SACLOS wire

Bangladesh Army has received 120 units of this ATGM and 1200 missiles.

@Tagaung

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## tarpitz

bluesky said:


> *
> 
> Specifications
> 
> 
> Weight* 13.8 kg
> *Length* 980 mm
> *Diameter* 130 mm
> *Warhead* HEAT tandem warhead, Armor penetration behind 900-950 mm. Thermobaric anti-personnel/anti-material warhead is also available.
> *Engine* solid-fuel rocket
> *Operational range *
> 0.08 - 2 km
> *Speed* 200 m/s
> *Guidance
> system *SACLOS wire
> 
> Bangladesh Army has received 120 units of this ATGM and 1200 missiles.
> 
> @Tagaung


Without proper air cover, infantry is just nothing.


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## BDforever

tarpitz said:


> Without proper air cover, infantry is just nothing.


don't worry, we have few covers and within this year many more are also coming


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## Nike

BDforever said:


> don't worry, we have few covers and within this year many more are also coming



You already said this since, well, 2012 or before....

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## BDforever

Marine Rouge said:


> You already said this since, well, 2012 or before....


well then we have some of those

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## Nilgiri

BDforever said:


> well then we have some of those



Cat meme?

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## UKBengali

tarpitz said:


> Without proper air cover, infantry is just nothing.




What do you think those batteries of FM-90C SAMs and FN-16 MANPADS are for?

They will shoot down your air-force in droves if they try to attack BA.


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## tarpitz

UKBengali said:


> What do you think those batteries of FM-90C SAMs and FN-16 MANPADS are for?
> 
> They will shoot down your air-force in drives if they try to attack BA.


Golden idea . .

It means that if you want to provide air cover to 2 km max ranged ATGM, you will have to deploy your FM 90 ( 10 km max range SHORAD) about 1 km or so behind the ATGMs(do not forget the weapon release line of fighter aircraft).

So you are depliying your FM 90 within the visual range of enemy tank(3 km). 

3 km from the frontline is also within the enemy artillery range.

RIP AD gunners.

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## Tagaung

UKBengali said:


> Dude you stupid?
> 
> Let us look at BD arms imports:
> 
> https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/bangladesh/arms-imports
> 
> 2012 206,000,000
> 2013 662,000,000
> 2014 201,000,000
> 2015 625,000,000
> 2016 438,000,000
> 
> 
> So we see that there was a total of 2.132 billion dollars over 2012-2016 which comes to over 400 million dollars per year.
> 
> Arms imports are SEPARATE from the defence budget.



well, again if you read the article clearly, it never said about other years. It said only for 2018/2019 budget year.
This is the original source of of your index mundi citation. In 2018, it is only 100 million USD. The 2 years that are above 500 million USD are 2013, 2014 and 2015, the reason is because you guys purchase 2 second hand submarines from China.
And if you follow the conversation, you would see, I said BD military will not be buying 32 MIG 35 and 12 Su 30. And I never said about buying in 2025 or 2030. 
the reason i first engage in this thread, is to put an end to your make believe news. *"a friend of a friend of a friend said* *this"* is not news or facts and it is just simply rumors and you should treat it like that. If you believe those things, you are either delusional or desperate. 

And one last thing. Calling someone "*stupid, savage or monkeys*" says a lot about one's character. And i never said those words as an insult, unless i genuinely mean it.

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## Tagaung

Michael Corleone said:


> That’s because we don’t go about killing our countrymen for their religion or sects


well, if you do a bit of reading, you would know it's not true. I think more than half of the rebels are the Buddhists.
Out of 14 major armed groups, only 3 are Christian and 1 is Muslim. there are even Burmese, Buddhist rebels. If you look at history, it started when Burmese communist party(Ba Ka Pa) decide to mutiny against the central government. It has nothing to do with religion, it was about political ideology.
The second phase is around 1988 uprising, and it was about the dictatorial government. so that is why about 10,000 Burmese-Buddhist, mostly students ABSDF( All burma student democratic front), decided to become rebels.
Do a bit of reading before saying such a statement.


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## Homo Sapiens

UKBengali said:


> *Dude*, that figure is for internal weapons procurements.
> Imports are budgeted separately.





UKBengali said:


> *Dude* you stupid?



Seems like this 'Dude' word is the hallmark of your posts. Do you use it this frequently in spoken conversation also?

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## Avicenna

Homo Sapiens said:


> Seems like this 'Dude' word is the hallmark of your posts. Do you use it this frequently in spoken conversation also?



Its a form of Tourette's.


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## Michael Corleone

Tagaung said:


> well, if you do a bit of reading, you would know it's not true. I think more than half of the rebels are the Buddhists.
> Out of 14 major armed groups, only 3 are Christian and 1 is Muslim. there are even Burmese, Buddhist rebels. If you look at history, it started when Burmese communist party(Ba Ka Pa) decide to mutiny against the central government. It has nothing to do with religion, it was about political ideology.
> The second phase is around 1988 uprising, and it was about the dictatorial government. so that is why about 10,000 Burmese-Buddhist, mostly students ABSDF( All burma student democratic front), decided to become rebels.
> Do a bit of reading before saying such a statement.
> 
> View attachment 552384


and yet, how many buddhist are fleeing to save their lives? none
cry the victim's moan all you want... the rest of the world knows what's the real deal


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## Tagaung

Michael Corleone said:


> and yet, how many buddhist are fleeing to save their lives? *none*
> cry the victim's moan all you want... the rest of the world knows what's the real deal


what??? do u really not think before you type? a bit of googling will show you, there are a million people who are displaced. And about *400,000 karen people* who are 80% buddhist have to flee to Thailand as refugees.
you guys only care about one group of people and turn a blind eye to others. 

*P.S* i am not defending violence against Muslims, I am just showing some people of their biases. 

TBH, I dont think you care about Muslims. if you do, you would say something about Uyghurs in China.
so, either you dont care or just afraid of China. 
I think you use Rohingya crisis as a justification for the hatred toward us.

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## Michael Corleone

Tagaung said:


> what??? do u really not think before you type? a bit of googling will show you, there are a million people who are displaced. And about *400,000 karen people* who are 80% buddhist have to flee to Thailand as refugees.
> you guys only care about one group of people and turn a blind eye to others.
> 
> *P.S* i am not defending violence against Muslims, I am just showing some people of their biases.
> 
> TBH, I dont think you care about Muslims. if you do, you would say something about Uyghurs in China.
> so, either you dont care or just afraid of China.
> I think you use Rohingya crisis as a justification for the hatred toward us.


problem is, it's your extremist buddhist population and your national army that's comitting genocide against rohyngas... including rape. can't deny that
ps rohyngas are not all muslims... there are hindu rohyngas too
anyways stop with the debate... and stay on topic.... airforce


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## Tagaung

Michael Corleone said:


> problem is, it's your extremist buddhist population and your national army that's comitting genocide against rohyngas... including rape. can't deny that
> ps rohyngas are not all muslims... there are hindu rohyngas too
> anyways stop with the debate... and stay on topic.... airforce



ok, i won't derail the conversation any longer. Just watch the video. Rohingya crisis explained by independence bystander.


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## UKBengali

tarpitz said:


> Golden idea . .
> 
> It means that if you want to provide air cover to 2 km max ranged ATGM, you will have to deploy your FM 90 ( 10 km max range SHORAD) about 1 km or so behind the ATGMs(do not forget the weapon release line of fighter aircraft).
> 
> So you are depliying your FM 90 within the visual range of enemy tank(3 km).
> 
> 3 km from the frontline is also within the enemy artillery range.
> 
> RIP AD gunners.



FM-90C has range of 15km against all targets. 

It will be well out of range of your "army". 

It and the FN-16 will take care of any attacking aircraft.



Homo Sapiens said:


> Seems like this 'Dude' word is the hallmark of your posts. Do you use it this frequently in spoken conversation also?



No only on this forum when trying to explain 
simple concepts to certain posters.

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## bdslph

Marine Rouge said:


> You already said this since, well, 2012 or before....



even before that


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## Bilal9

Homo Sapiens said:


> Seems like this 'Dude' word is the hallmark of your posts. Do you use it this frequently in spoken conversation also?



It is as common to informal lingo (at least in the US) as 'bud' (US) or 'mate' (in Australia).



Tagaung said:


> what??? do u really not think before you type? a bit of googling will show you, there are a million people who are displaced. And about *400,000 karen people* who are 80% buddhist have to flee to Thailand as refugees.
> you guys only care about one group of people and turn a blind eye to others.
> 
> *P.S* i am not defending violence against Muslims, I am just showing some people of their biases.
> 
> TBH, I dont think you care about Muslims. if you do, you would say something about Uyghurs in China.
> so, either you dont care or just afraid of China.
> I think you use Rohingya crisis as a justification for the hatred toward us.



No one is hating you.

But going by this discussion, your country seems to be one heck of a clusterf*ck situation.

I think peace needs to return to your country, and for that international sanctions against your country and especially the Tatmadaw generals are a necessity. Foreign Investments are propping up this de-stabilizing junta situation and that needs to stop.

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

C-130J Super Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF)

Registration- S3-AGE

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## BDforever

The Ronin said:


> C-130J Super Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF)
> 
> Registration- S3-AGE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


ah, so you know now


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## Philip the Arab

Bangladesh SAM system options.

China- China offers a variety of SAM systems that could all meet Bangladesh's needs in SHORAD, and HIMAD roles. These are some that I think would work for Bangladesh at a fairly cheap price.

*Long range air defense* HQ-22- 3 systems should be procured that can each cover pretty much all of Bangladesh individually. Would help with Indian, and Myanmar aggression if need be. The *HQ-22* (export version FK-3) is China’s new generation medium-range, radar-guided surface-to-air missile. It is a second-generation variant of the HQ-12, has a range of up to 170km and an effective altitude from 50 m to 27 km. It is relatively cheaper to produce than the HQ-9 and will form one of the mainstays of China’s air defense system, replacing the Cold-War era HQ-2. Command guidance/semi active radar homing guidance.










*Medium range air defense* Sky-Dragon 50- 8 systems of this should cover all of Bangladesh and would greatly help Bangladesh's air defense capabilities when it comes to medium range air defense.









*Armament*
4 missiles DK-10/SD-10A
*Country users *
Rwanda
*Designer Country*
China
*Command and control vehicles*
- IBIS 150 3D target designation radar
- One command post
- on reloader truck
*Crew*
3
*Killing probability *
>= 0.80
*Detection range *
130 km
*Missile range*
3 to 50 km
*Missile altitude *
30m to 20 km
*Capacity of engagement*
4 different targets simultaneously


Bangladesh has already mostly good SHORAD systems so that is not needed but I have one recommendation.

*Short range air defense* Sky Dragon 50- The Sky Dragon 12 is a short-range surface-to-air defense missile (SAM) system developed and manufactured by the Chinese Defense Company NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation). The system was unveiled for the first time during the defense exhibition in South Africa, AAD, September 2014. The Sky Dragon 12 short-range SAM system is designed for key-point and field air-defense of small-size military objects and areas against mass air threats, such as aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles, UAVs and precision-guided weapons, as well as reinforcing 35mm AA (Anti-Aircraft) gun air-defense group coverage, forming the AWS2 missile/gun integrated air defense weapon system. This system is derived from the Tunguska M1 missile.










*Armament*
12 Tianlong 12/ SD-12/ FK-1000 missiles
*Country users *
-
a
*Designer Country*
China
*Accessories*
Ku-band tracking-guidance radar, electro-optic
tracker
*Crew*
3
*Killing probability *
>= 0.80
*Tracking-guidance range *
- Radar: 15 km
- Electro-Optic tracker: 12 km
*Missile range*
2 to 12 km
*Missile altitude *
15m to 15 km
a
*Capacity of engagement*
4 different targets simultaneously


Also, could Bangladesh purchase Ah-1 Cobras for sale from Jordan as a stop-gap measure until newer attack helicopters are available? 17 are available for sale as part of a massive sell off. These Ah-1's can be upgraded in America to carry the Hellfire missiles, and have glass cockpit, and better thermal camera. The life of the helicopters are extended by at least 20 years also. C-130 and two AC-295s for sale could also prove valuable for Bangladesh.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-01-05/gunships-sale-part-mass-jordanian-sell


https://news.northropgrumman.com/ne...llc-and-northrop-grumman-begin-flight-testing

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## Philip the Arab

@BDforever 
@UKBengali 
@Bilal9 
@bdslph 
Do you agree with those air-defense choices or not? I forgot to ask any of your guys opinions on it but I thoroughly think a lot of money should go into modern air defenses.

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## BDforever

Philip the Arab said:


> @BDforever
> @UKBengali
> @Bilal9
> @bdslph
> Do you agree with those air-defense choices or not? I forgot to ask any of your guys opinions on it but I thoroughly think a lot of money should go into modern air defenses.


agree with your planning and good news is BD forces also implementing it, 4 layers air defence systems.
GDF-009 skyguard has been bought , FK-3 is in the pipeline, we have FM90C, LY80D/E is also coming.
different kinds of MANPAD have been bought also.
And so many things are also coming

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## Philip the Arab

Does anyone know what multi-role combat aircraft squadron are being procured?


To ensure the security of the maritime boundary, government is procuring one squadron of multirole combat aircraft which will be based at Cox's Bazar airbase.


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## BDforever

Philip the Arab said:


> Does anyone know what multi-role combat aircraft squadron are being procured?
> 
> 
> To ensure the security of the maritime boundary, government is procuring one squadron of multirole combat aircraft which will be based at Cox's Bazar airbase.


not allowed to say

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## Avicenna

BDforever said:


> not allowed to say



Can you give us a clue?

The silence is deafening!

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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> Can you give us a clue?
> 
> The silence is deafening!


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## Bilal9

There are certain things that are best left classified and we should respect that. 

Too many false flaggers in this forum fishing for info one way or the other.

Besides we can speculate all we want, but the decision makers won't ask us.


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## Michael Corleone

BDforever said:


>


meena!? is that you?


----------



## BDforever

Michael Corleone said:


> meena!? is that you?


purnima ..MK vai

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## Michael Corleone

BDforever said:


> purnima ..MK vai


lol

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## Bilal9

Tomra ki khajura alaap chalaitaso bujlam na. Buija luv o khub ekta nai.

Chalaiya jao....

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## BDforever

The Ronin said:


> Kita korbo vai? Ei thread+sub forum to purai gollay gese. Kichui kine na temon military. BAF er obostha to aro kharap. Hala ra ki kortase Allah ei jane. Jodi BD Military r news sotti hisabe nei tahole BAF ki suicide kortase na? Mig-35 ar Su-30/35 kintase. Totally Russia dependent howa to chorom bokami. BAF ki etota stupid? @BDforever tomare to deikha mone hoy tumi vitorer khobor jano. What's your opinion on this?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you EAS or SAK?


I am ninja agent


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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Kita korbo vai? Ei thread+sub forum to purai gollay gese. Kichui kine na temon military. BAF er obostha to aro kharap. Hala ra ki kortase Allah ei jane. Jodi BD Military r news sotti hisabe nei tahole BAF ki suicide kortase na? Mig-35 ar Su-30/35 kintase. Totally Russia dependent howa to chorom bokami. BAF ki etota stupid? @BDforever tomare to deikha mone hoy tumi vitorer khobor jano. What's your opinion on this?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you EAS or SAK?



Amra ehkanay English kota boltay ucheed.

Also, BAF is moronic no doubt.

And this thread might as well not exist given its level of activity.


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Amra ehkanay English kota boltay ucheed.
> 
> Also, BAF is moronic no doubt.
> 
> And this thread might as well not exist given its level of activity.


BAF has very limited option. It cant buy Russian due to US sanction. Indian pressure as well as MM situation made BAF not to go for Chinese options. BD government is in no mood to allocate funding for more than 50 million for a single fighter in near future. We should not blame BAF for all of its misery. @BDforever

This is totally my understanding of the situation.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> BAF has very limited option. It cant buy Russian due to US sanction. Indian pressure as well as MM situation made BAF not to go for Chinese options. BD government is in no mood to allocate funding for more than 50 million for a single fighter in near future. We should not blame BAF for all of its misery. @BDforever
> 
> This is totally my understanding of the situation.



What Indian pressure?
BD need not pay any heed to Indian concerns as India needs BD like BD needs India. Chinese fighters would be used against IAF as they are still a potential threat to BD. Western fighters are the most reliable against Myanmar as the Russians may buckle to Chinese pressure there.
As for that 50 million per unit figure, that is silly as that does not take into account the "life-cycle" costs, capability and readiness rates. With 12 Gripen Es, BAF would need 18 Mig-35s to have the same readiness rate. So it would pay exactly the same upfront for a better overall capability.
Problem now mainly seems to be BAF ineptitude.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> BAF has very limited option. It cant buy Russian due to US sanction. Indian pressure as well as MM situation made BAF not to go for Chinese options. BD government is in no mood to allocate funding for more than 50 million for a single fighter in near future. We should not blame BAF for all of its misery. @BDforever
> 
> This is totally my understanding of the situation.



The alternative, my friend is to sit on her hands, while its belligenrent nieghbor arms up.

And then cry to the UN when that neighbor does something hostile.

Of course alot of good that will do.

The problem is ineptitude.

Other countries have barriers as well and yet are able to make due.

Bangladesh is pathetic.

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## Pakistani Fighter

TopCat said:


> BAF has very limited option. It cant buy Russian due to US sanction. Indian pressure as well as MM situation made BAF not to go for Chinese options. BD government is in no mood to allocate funding for more than 50 million for a single fighter in near future. We should not blame BAF for all of its misery. @BDforever
> 
> This is totally my understanding of the situation.


Become Pakistan's friend. We can help you out


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## SBUS-CXK

The Ronin said:


> Wait, this is what they meant when they said, "next fighter will be cost effective"??!! Their operational cost is higher than J-10/Gripen. And more important question is why they are putting all eggs in one basket. Weird!!  Why not buy one from Russsian and another from Chinese or Western. I hope Turkey and Korea will complete their fighter project soon so that we won't have to rely on West or Russia/China for fighter in future.
> 
> 
> 
> Zhuk-A/AE AESA radar and optional TVC. It's not like TVC is always necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know this story. What happened?


I'm not looking down on Turkey / South Korea / Indonesia.
Tell me - how many planes did they make in 70 years?


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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> Kita korbo vai? Ei thread+sub forum to purai gollay gese. Kichui kine na temon military. BAF er obostha to aro kharap. Hala ra ki kortase Allah ei jane. Jodi BD Military r news sotti hisabe nei tahole BAF ki suicide kortase na? Mig-35 ar Su-30/35 kintase. Totally Russia dependent howa to chorom bokami. BAF ki etota stupid? @BDforever tomare to deikha mone hoy tumi vitorer khobor jano. What's your opinion on this?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you EAS or SAK?



BAF er kotha ar boila luv nai.

Kisu ekta to kinuk. Hatey kisu na thakley Bandor go Bandrami aro beshi baira jabey.

BAF er bhitorer khobor discuss na korlei bhalo. Ekhaney ganjam laganor onek mokkel ready aasey.

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## ghost250

Bilal9 said:


> BAF er kotha ar boila luv nai.
> 
> Kisu ekta to kinuk. Hatey kisu na thakley Bandor go Bandrami aro beshi baira jabey.
> 
> BAF er bhitorer khobor discuss na korlei bhalo. Ekhaney ganjam laganor onek mokkel ready aasey.


mig 35 akhno serial production er jnno ready naa..amr mone hoy BAF eitar jnno wait kortese...2020 shaler age kisuh e order korbe naa..r air cheif alrdy cost effective fighter er kotha bolsn,so twin engine cost effective fighter mone hoy shudhu mig35 e aseh

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Amra ehkanay English kota boltay ucheed.



I was actually talking to Bilal vai. Read his quote below. That's the reason. 



Bilal9 said:


> Ekhaney ganjam laganor onek mokkel ready aasey.





Bilal9 said:


> BAF er bhitorer khobor discuss na korlei bhalo.



Vai bhitorer khobor keu asolei jane naki amar sondeho ase. jai hok June er porei bujha jabe kahini ki, jodi sotti hoya thake arki. 



Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Become Pakistan's friend. We can help you out













TopCat said:


> Indian pressure



What Indian pressure? Most of our armaments come from China. Did we care about Indian pressure when we bought Ming sub or Type53H3 frigate? Even if we choose Type 54A variant as our next frigate BN won't give a damn about Indian pressure. 



shourov323 said:


> mig 35 akhno serial production er jnno ready naa



I thought they already started serial production. Didn't Russia order some?



shourov323 said:


> 2020 shaler age kisuh e order korbe naa



Eigula abar ki bolen re vai?!  Kisuh na mane ki? Kono aircraft e na?



Two said:


> I'm not looking down on Turkey / South Korea / Indonesia.
> Tell me - how many planes did they make in 70 years?



I was actually talking about their 5th gen fighter project. Only American fighters are successful so far and saw some action. Don't know what "70 years" have to do with this. And Indonesia is only funding KFX project AFAIK.

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## Indos

The Ronin said:


> I was actually talking about their 5th gen fighter project. Only American fighters are successful so far and saw some action. Don't know what "70 years" have to do with this. And Indonesia is only funding KFX project AFAIK.



Indonesia is not only funding KFX fighter but also participate in designing the fighter since 2011. We contribute around 30 designer in 2011-2014 (first phase) and around 80 engineers (designer) since 2015 until now.

"KAI added that up to 150 engineers and technicians from Indonesia are expected to travel to South Korea this year to participate in the fighter development programme. KAI added that 28 Indonesian engineers were originally involved but this number had increased to 72."

https://www.janes.com/article/85680/indonesia-resumes-kfx-payments
"



Two said:


> I'm not looking down on Turkey / South Korea / Indonesia.
> Tell me - how many planes did they make in 70 years?



PT Dirgantara Indonesia has made 403 plane (and helicopter) since 1976.

https://money.kompas.com/read/2017/...man.pt.dirgantara.indonesia.41.tahun.terakhir

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## SBUS-CXK

Indos said:


> Indonesia is not only funding KFX fighter but also participate in designing the fighter since 2011. We contribute around 30 designer in 2011-2014 (first phase) and around 80 engineers (designer) since 2015 until now.
> 
> "KAI added that up to 150 engineers and technicians from Indonesia are expected to travel to South Korea this year to participate in the fighter development programme. KAI added that 28 Indonesian engineers were originally involved but this number had increased to 72."
> 
> https://www.janes.com/article/85680/indonesia-resumes-kfx-payments
> "
> 
> 
> 
> PT Dirgantara Indonesia has made 403 plane (and helicopter) since 1976.
> 
> https://money.kompas.com/read/2017/...man.pt.dirgantara.indonesia.41.tahun.terakhir


Hi, friend. First of all, congratulations to Indonesia.

But I've seen Taiwanese news. The S.korea “？？？” aircraft was designed by AIDC. It's actually Taiwan technology. It's true?

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## Indos

Two said:


> Hi, friend. First of all, congratulations to Indonesia.
> 
> But I've seen Taiwanese news. The S.korea “？？？” aircraft was designed by AIDC. It's actually Taiwan technology. It's true?



You read a fake news

KFX was first design by ADD (Agency for Defense Development) and PT Dirgantara Indonesia around 2011 until 2014 and the result is C 103 design. Since 2015 there are KAI and Lockheed Martin who join the program (along with PT Dirgantara engineers) and the result is C 109 as a final design. Today they are doing critical design with the objective to make a prototype in 2021.

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## SBUS-CXK

Indos said:


> You read a fake news
> 
> KFX was first design by ADD (Agency for Defense Development) and PT Dirgantara Indonesia around 2011 until 2014 and the result is C 103 design. Since 2015 there are KAI and Lockheed Martin who join the program (along with PT Dirgantara engineers) and the result is C 109 as a final design. Today they are doing critical design with the objective to make a prototype in 2021.


I watched Taiwan TV news. they're talking about T50. SK employs Taiwanese technicians (former AIDC employees) to help SK develop aircraft.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/search?keyword=AIDC

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## Bilal9

Two said:


> Hi, friend. First of all, congratulations to Indonesia.
> 
> But I've seen Taiwanese news. The S.korea “？？？” aircraft was designed by AIDC. It's actually Taiwan technology. It's true?



I seriously doubt it. The renegade province and AIDC could hardly get a re-make of the Ching-Kuo off the ground. Not about money, it is about their priorities. When Big Daddy provides - why go looking for self-sufficiency?

Maybe a few engineers got jobs - but help from the govt. maybe not.


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## Avicenna

So looking like most likely choice is MiG-35?

Post 2020 delivery dates?

Anything?


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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> I was actually talking to Bilal vai. Read his quote below. That's the reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vai bhitorer khobor keu asolei jane naki amar sondeho ase. jai hok June er porei bujha jabe kahini ki, jodi sotti hoya thake arki.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Indian pressure? Most of our armaments come from China. Did we care about Indian pressure when we bought Ming sub or Type53H3 frigate? Even if we choose Type 54A variant as our next frigate BN won't give a damn about Indian pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they already started serial production. Didn't Russia order some?
> 
> 
> 
> Eigula abar ki bolen re vai?!  Kisuh na mane ki? Kono aircraft e na?
> 
> 
> 
> I was actually talking about their 5th gen fighter project. Only American fighters are successful so far and saw some action. Don't know what "70 years" have to do with this. And Indonesia is only funding KFX project AFAIK.


buke pathhor badhen re vai..kissu korar nai..sukhoi series er kisuh order korar echchha thakle etttoo din e diye dito...ei bochhor e gmlrs nd mrsam niyai khushi thakte hbe amdr..

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## SBUS-CXK

Bilal9 said:


> I seriously doubt it. The renegade province and AIDC could hardly get a re-make of the Ching-Kuo off the ground. Not about money, it is about their priorities. When Big Daddy provides - why go looking for self-sufficiency?
> 
> Maybe a few engineers got jobs - but help from the govt. maybe not.


According to I know from taiwan TV news.

ching kuo is “*Light of Taiwan*” （please Google this word）. if necessary. It will bomb the Three Gorges Dam on the mainland. and it has a very powerful cluster bomb. can paralyse the mainland airport. in short, it's very powerful. 

just like the Turkish / S.Korea “???” aircraft same powerful. 

Bangladesh do not want to buy Ching-kuo?

@Bilal9


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## Bilal9

Two said:


> According to I know from taiwan TV news.
> 
> ching kuo is “*Light of Taiwan*” （please Google this word）. if necessary. It will bomb the Three Gorges Dam on the mainland. and it has a very powerful cluster bomb. can paralyse the mainland airport. in short, it's very powerful.
> 
> just like the Turkish / S.Korea “???” aircraft same powerful.
> 
> Bangladesh do not want to buy Ching-kuo?
> 
> @Bilal9





Surely you jest my friend....


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## SBUS-CXK

Bilal9 said:


> Surely you jest my friend....


I just said what I saw on Taiwan TV news.
you can't imagine my experience at that time.
Even now. I'm still trembling!!!!!









“China build the Three Gorges Dam with 100 years.
Only one bomb can destroy the Three Gorges Dam.
Kill a million people instantly.
Shanghai will be flooded...”

I am serious. Bangladesh should consider the Ching-kuo. It's really powerful.


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> So looking like most likely choice is MiG-35?
> 
> Post 2020 delivery dates?
> 
> Anything?


USA is serious about sanction regarding high end Russian aviation products. I dont think BD will even take slightest chance on that. They already threatened Egypt. Even a single diplomatic gesture will make BD not to walk that way. USA still is our daddy.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> USA is serious about sanction regarding high end Russian aviation products. I dont think BD will even take slightest chance on that. They already threatened Egypt. Even a single diplomatic gesture will make BD not to walk that way. USA still is our daddy.



USA takes in 6 billion dollars of BD exports every year and controls Japan who gives 2 billion US dollars of very low interest loans every year.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> USA takes in 6 billion dollars of BD exports every year and controls Japan who gives 2 billion US dollars of very low interest loans every year.


You forgot about WB and IMF.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> You forgot about WB and IMF.



Actually this is a good thing as Russian aviation is on the way down. 
BD needs a Chinese/Western mix of planes.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Actually this is a good thing as Russian aviation is on the way down.


contrary, growth is down yes... but future projects will all be multinational efforts, so expect china and russia to cooperate in the field


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## SipahSalar

24 JAS 39 Gripens' armed with Meteors is best option imo if money is not an issue.

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> contrary, growth is down yes... but future projects will all be multinational efforts, so expect china and russia to cooperate in the field



Only co-operation between China and Russia is in civil field - Russia has nothing to offer China in the military aerospace field.


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Only co-operation between China and Russia is in civil field - Russia has nothing to offer China in the military aerospace field.


Not true.. Russia still has a lot of technology which even Americans will buy. Russia historically is a military nation (a$$hole in true sense) and there is no reason they will not be in the future. They need scary weapons to keep control of 1/3rd of entire globe's land mass.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Not true.. Russia still has a lot of technology which even Americans will buy. Russia historically is a military nation (a$$hole in true sense) and there is no reason they will not be in the future. They need scary weapons to keep control of 1/3rd of entire globe's land mass.




OK. Can you give me as list what they can offer China in the military aerospace field?


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> OK. Can you give me as list what they can offer China in the military aerospace field?


They bought SU-35, S-400 for a reason... I will by SU-57 over J-20 anyday. Their space program still a long way ahead of China who still uses Russian rocket technology. I can name hundreds of projects where China cant come close. How many helicopter variant China can offer? Could BD buy a aircraft from China other than F-7 which is also a Mig-21?

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> OK. Can you give me as list what they can offer China in the military aerospace field?



Engine for one. China has so far only copied russian engines. 

China to date has not developed any tech that we know off by itself. This is not the case with US or Russia.

China is expanding its scientific base and is spending a lot of money on R&D. It will take time for them to catch up when it comes to cutting edge. It will happen in time.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> They bought SU-35, S-400 for a reason... I will by SU-57 over J-20 anyday. Their space program still a long way ahead of China who still uses Russian rocket technology. I can name hundreds of projects where China cant come close. How many helicopter variant China can offer? Could BD buy a aircraft from China other than F-7 which is also a Mig-21?




SU-35 is more to do with Chinese wanting to compare their fighters with Russian ones - they did not buy any more than 24 which tells you that they do not consider it much better than what they have.
S-400 is world's best SAM no doubt and China are still playing catch up in this field.
SU-57 is acknowledged failure and even the Russians are not buying it.



mb444 said:


> Engine for one. China has so far only copied russian engines.
> 
> China to date has not developed any tech that we know off by itself. This is not the case with US or Russia.
> 
> China is expanding its scientific base and is spending a lot of money on R&D. It will take time for them to catch up when it comes to cutting edge. It will happen in time.




J-20 uses Chinese engines now - WS-15 will equalise the engine tech between China and Russia.


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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> SU-35 is more to do with Chinese wanting to compare their fighters with Russian ones - they did not buy any more than 24 which tells you that they do not consider it much better than what they have.
> S-400 is world's best SAM no doubt and China are still playing catch up in this field.
> SU-57 is acknowledged failure and even the Russians are not buying it.


China is catching up for sure.. but its advantage so far is what Stalin had in 40's, are the numbers. China got great economy and great many people which itself make it a super power.

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## SBUS-CXK

TopCat said:


> They bought SU-35, S-400 for a reason... I will by SU-57 over J-20 anyday. Their space program still a long way ahead of China who still uses Russian rocket technology. I can name hundreds of projects where China cant come close. How many helicopter variant China can offer? Could BD buy a aircraft from China other than F-7 which is also a Mig-21?





TopCat said:


> China is catching up for sure.. but its advantage so far is what Stalin had in 40's, are the numbers. China got great economy and great many people which itself make it a super power.


We feel shame. a country cannot produce its own weapons, even all weapons need to be imported. This is a shame for China! This is why when China buy SU-35 and S-400. the Chinese people feel sad.

But even so. we don't have to wait too long time. China made weapon is enough to maintain the third military power in the world（not rely on Su-35 and S-400）. we just accumulate industrial capital. This is completely different from other countries imported weapons.

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## UKBengali

Two said:


> We feel shame. a country cannot produce its own weapons, even all weapons need to be imported. This is a shame for China! This is why when China buy SU-35 and S-400. the Chinese people feel sad.
> 
> But even so. we don't have to wait too long time. China made weapon is enough to maintain the third military power in the world（no't rely on Su-30 and S-400）. we just accumulate industrial capital. This is completely different from other countries imported weapons.




Why did China buy SU-35? It makes no sense to buy that!


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## SBUS-CXK

UKBengali said:


> Why did China buy SU-35? It makes no sense to buy that!


the J-20 production capacity is insufficient (CAC produces J-10, J-10C, J-20, JF17, JF-17 Block II and Block III at the same time). For example. in 2018, CAC delivered 75 J-10C to the PLAAF. This year, China need to deliver more JF-17 to Pakistan (total 62).

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## Avicenna

China is clearly on its way up.

There is no question about that.

In regards to BAF, I of course am a proponent of a Western/Chinese mix.

If CAATSA is a factor here, then what do you think BAF will do?

It clearly needs and desires new aircraft.


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> Why did China buy SU-35? It makes no sense to buy that!


What will the consequences be, if China doesn't buy Su-35?


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> What will the consequences be, if China doesn't buy Su-35?



From my recollection, the SU-35 purchase was being negotiated for quite some time until it acutally happened.

The main motivation might have been for China to get access to the engine and other Russian goodies.

However, as time went on, and advances were made on the Chinese side, the main motivation may have been to acquire the SU-35 and see how it compares to Chinese types.

As time goes on, China will have less and less of a need for Russian gear and in fact the Russians may end up buying Chinese at some point in time.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> From my recollection, the SU-35 purchase was being negotiated for quite some time until it acutally happened.
> 
> The main motivation might have been for China to get access to the engine and other Russian goodies.
> 
> However, as time went on, and advances were made on the Chinese side, the main motivation may have been to acquire the SU-35 and see how it compares to Chinese types.
> 
> As time goes on, China will have less and less of a need for Russian gear and in fact the Russians may end up buying Chinese at some point in time.


What will the consequences be, if Bangladesh or India doesn't buy fighters from foreign countries?

And what will the consequences be, if China doesn't buy Su-35?

Do you know the the difference?


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> What will the consequences be, if Bangladesh or India doesn't buy fighters from foreign countries?
> 
> And what will be consequences be, if China doesn't buy Su-35?
> 
> Do you know the the difference?



Bangladesh and India are dependent on foreign countries for any military aircraft.

In 2019, China much less so if at all.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh and India are dependent on foreign countries for any military aircraft.
> 
> In 2019, China much less so if at all.


In short, if China doesn't buy Su-35, it is also OK to China.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Only co-operation between China and Russia is in civil field - Russia has nothing to offer China in the military aerospace field.


and yet china buys russian aerospace products to improve its own designs 
there are plans even to buy su57 now.... perhaps it was designed by the chinese and bought by the russians according to your thoughts?

not saying china is inferior... in fact superior in any fields like cyberspace... aerospace is still a field china is not superior to russia... maybe on par with russia nowadays but not superior


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> and yet china buys russian aerospace products to improve its own designs
> there are plans even to buy su57 now.... perhaps it was designed by the chinese and bought by the russians according to your thoughts?
> 
> not saying china is inferior... in fact superior in any fields like cyberspace... aerospace is still a field china is not superior to russia... maybe on par with russia nowadays but not superior




Just a Russian report that China will buy SU-57.
I would be extremely surprised if this happens.


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> In short, if China doesn't buy Su-35, it is also OK to China.



yea China dosent NEED the Su-35 in 2019 if thats what your saying.

its astonishing the rise of chinese military aviation in the last 25 years.

no question.

i have been an avid follower since the mid 90's visiting hui tongs website several times a day.

but there are still things China lags behind in.

most notably the engines.

but i am sure that gap will be closed as time goes on.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> yea China dosent NEED the Su-35 in 2019 if thats what your saying.
> 
> its astonishing the rise of chinese military aviation in the last 25 years.
> 
> no question.
> 
> i have been an avid follower since the mid 90's visiting hui tongs website several times a day.
> 
> but there are still things China lags behind in.
> 
> most notably the engines.
> 
> but i am sure that gap will be closed as time goes on.


I didn't say China is the best in world.

The challenges China faces are from USA, not Russia, and China still has a lot to do.


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> I didn't say China is the best in world.
> 
> The challenges China faces are from USA, not Russia, and China still has a lot to do.



Yes I agree.

The big game for the foreseeable future is between China and the US.


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## LKJ86

The 4.5th-generation heavyweight fighter that China needs is not just like Su-35, but much better than Su-35, specially with better radar, avionics, and ammunition. China is interested in some subsystems of Su-35. That is why China buys Su-35 to save time.


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> The 4.5th-generation heavyweight fighter that China needs is not just like Su-35, but much better than Su-35, specially with better radar, avionics, and ammunition. China is interested in some subsystems of Su-35. That is why China buys Su-35 to save time.



What is your thoughts on J-11D?


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> What is your thoughts on J-11D?


It is 5th-generation fighter era now. Is it too late to develop a new 4.5-generation heavyweight air-superiority fighter, while J-20 is ready at that moment?


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> It is 5th-generation fighter era now. Is it too late to develop a new 4.5-generation heavyweight air-superiority fighter, while J-20 is ready at that moment?



You will need a mix of 5 and 4.5.

USAF is going to start buying F-15 variant new builds again.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> You will need a mix of 5 and 4.5.
> 
> USAF is going to start buying F-15 variant new builds again.


F-15X is used for multirole, and J-16 is doing that job.
J-11D is mainly for air superiority, similar to Su-35.


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> F-15X is used for multirole, and J-16 is doing that job.
> J-11D is mainly for air superiority, similar to Su-35.



Not true.

F-15X is intended to replace legacy F-15C.

This is the air to air role.

If anything I would say Su-35, J-11D, and F-15X are analagous.

Acutally comparing the 3 may be relevant in comparing the three nations abilities.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Not true.
> 
> F-15X is intended to replace legacy F-15C.
> 
> This is the air to air role.
> 
> If anything I would say Su-35, J-11D, and F-15X are analagous.
> 
> Acutally comparing the 3 may be relevant in comparing the three nations abilities.


If USA uses F-15X for air to air role, China will be very happy.


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## Avicenna

Keep twidling your thumbs BAF.

Time is ticking.

Others are active.

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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Maybe.
> 
> Hopefully it will never come to that.


In air-combat exercises, PLAAF has found that J-10C and J-16 mean nothing to J-20.


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## Deino

Allegedly the first Su-30SME

https://dambiev.livejournal.com/1588309.html

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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> In air-combat exercises, PLAAF has found that J-10C and J-16 mean nothing to J-20.



Yea but similarly F-35 and F-22 are superior to F-15 and F-16.

We wont really know until things turn hot how it will all turn out.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Yea but similarly F-35 and F-22 are superior to F-15 and F-16.
> 
> We wont really know until things turn hot how it will all turn out.


China used to think that 4.5th-generation fighters can be against 5th-generation fighters.
But after J-20 is in service, China finds she was wrong completely.


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> China used to think that 4.5th-generation fighters can be against 5th-generation fighters.
> But after J-20 is in service, China finds she was wrong completely.



Yea apparently, 5th gen is far superior.

But things dont exist in a vacuum.

There will be other systems in play if conflict breaks out.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Yea apparently, 5th gen is far superior.
> 
> But things dont exist in a vacuum.
> 
> There will be other systems in play if conflict breaks out.


For PLAAF, J-20 is for air superiority, while J-16 (high cost) and J-10C (low cost) for multirole.
That is why I said " If China doesn't buy Su-35, it is also OK to China."


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## SBUS-CXK

Michael Corleone said:


> and yet china buys russian aerospace products to improve its own designs
> there are plans even to buy su57 now.... perhaps it was designed by the chinese and bought by the russians according to your thoughts?
> 
> not saying china is inferior... in fact superior in any fields like cyberspace... aerospace is still a field china is not superior to russia... maybe on par with russia nowadays but not superior





UKBengali said:


> Just a Russian report that China will buy SU-57.
> I would be extremely surprised if this happens.


but China refuses to buy SU-57.
China has never agreed to buy SU-57.
China also has no plans to buy SU-57.
and why do some people think China may buy SU-57?

@Michael Corleone you said. It's just Russia's idea. As long as you think it's right. There is no need to consider facts.


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## LKJ86

Two said:


> but China refuses to buy SU-57.
> China has never agreed to buy SU-57.
> China also has no plans to buy SU-57.
> and why do some people think China may buy SU-57?
> 
> @Michael Corleone you said. It's just Russia's idea. As long as you think it's right. There is no need to consider facts.


It is impossible for China to have two different 5th-generation heavyweight air-superiority fighters at the same time.

When Franker family fighters were introduced, China doesn't develop her own 4/4.5th-generation heavyweight fighters any more.


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## Michael Corleone

Two said:


> but China refuses to buy SU-57.
> China has never agreed to buy SU-57.
> China also has no plans to buy SU-57.
> and why do some people think China may buy SU-57?
> 
> @Michael Corleone you said. It's just Russia's idea. As long as you think it's right. There is no need to consider facts.


idk if china intends to buy any... i'm not saying they'll buy... so please weigh in the difference between what i say and what you think i'm saying


----------



## SBUS-CXK

LKJ86 said:


> It is impossible for China to have two different 5th-generation heavyweight air-superiority fighters.


J-20 and J-31 is enough.

@Michael Corleone you make too many jokes tonight.

btw.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons

Non-signatories
(India, Israel, Pakistan, South Sudan)



Michael Corleone said:


> idk if china intends to buy any... i'm not saying they'll buy... so please weigh in the difference between what i say and what you think i'm saying


What excuses do you need?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons

Non-signatories
(India, Israel, Pakistan, South Sudan)


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## LKJ86

Two said:


> J-20 and J-31 is enough.


Just like that China will never buy Mig-29/35, while China has J-10 already.

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## Michael Corleone

Two said:


> What excuses do you need?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons
> 
> Non-signatories
> (India, Israel, Pakistan, South Sudan)


context? to the su57?


----------



## SBUS-CXK

Michael Corleone said:


> context? to the su57?


You make too many excuses. hope you can correct it.


----------



## beyond2018

UKBengali said:


> Why did China buy SU-35? It makes no sense to buy that!



We need to know the latest technology level of our peers，and Russian Su-35 is a good and only option

In fact,there's a suspected leak about the combat of Su-35 VS J-10B, but I can't say much more here.

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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> Just like that China will never buy Mig-29/35, while China has J-10 already.



The fact that China bought the Flanker rather than the Fulcrum in the early 90's showed true vision.


----------



## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> The fact that China bought the Flanker rather than the Fulcrum in the early 90's showed true vision.


If China bought Mig-29 at that moment, there is no J-10 any more.

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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> If China bought Mig-29 at that moment, there is no J-10 any more.



Yes.

There was a vision and plan in place.

The result of which is really striking.

The Flanker shell has served China very well.


----------



## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> The Flanker shell has served China very well.


It is good for SAC in the past and now, but bad for SAC in the future.

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## Michael Corleone

Two said:


> You make too many excuses. hope you can correct it.


my friend you're all over the place. i sugest you hone your english proficiency first


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## SBUS-CXK

Michael Corleone said:


> my friend you're all over the place. i sugest you hone your english proficiency first


hi, friend. I suggest you read more books. Don't make any excuses.


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## Michael Corleone

Two said:


> hi, friend. I suggest you read more books. Don't make any excuses.


mate... you don't have to suggest me to read books... i read so much that i've lost my perfect 20/20 vision and didn't enroll in the air force because of it

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> mate... you don't have to suggest me to read books... i read so much that i've lost my perfect 20/20 vision and didn't enroll in the air force because of it



How true that is.....

Too much crap to read....


----------



## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> How true that is.....
> 
> Too much crap to read....


i've become near sighted from being around books too much.

sounds stupid but those who have had this experience can tell you

well could have got a LASIK, but mom was being stubborn about joining the airforce... and i would have to leave out a year to recover.... LASIK clients need to apply 6 months after it's done


----------



## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> i've become near sighted from being around books too much.
> 
> sounds stupid but those who have had this experience can tell you
> 
> well could have got a LASIK, but mom was being stubborn about joining the airforce... and i would have to leave out a year to recover.... LASIK clients need to apply 6 months after it's done



Don't do LASIK.

The complications from it are underrated and underreported.

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## TopCat

Dont get carried away by the Russian and Chinese technology.
Just see the Japanese new fighter and its edge over any fighter of eastern block..
This will give a glimpse over the F-22 technology which is mostly unknown to days. Japs are trying to bridge the gap between F-35 and F-22 with this aircraft.





This fighter uses active stealth technology which we dont know if F-22 is using or not.


----------



## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Dont get carried away by the Russian and Chinese technology.
> Just see the Japanese new fighter and its edge over any fighter of eastern block..
> This will give a glimpse over the F-22 technology which is mostly unknown to days. Japs are trying to bridge the gap between F-35 and F-22 with this aircraft.



Japan is creating a 6th gen fighter that will come into service by around 2030.
Everything, including engine, will be indigenous.


----------



## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Japan is creating a 6th gen fighter that will come into service by around 2030.
> Everything, including engine, will be indigenous.


It is already flying.. Thats what matters. Its not a paper plane. this demonstrate how far behind Chinese are.


----------



## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> It is already flying.. Thats what matters. Its not a paper plane. this demonstrate how far behind Chinese are.



China already has J-20 in service with 4+ gen engine(WS-10X) 
WS-15 engine will be ready by middle part of next decade at the latest. 
China is a little ahead of Japan in aerospace now.


----------



## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> China already has J-20 in service with 4+ gen engine(WS-10X)
> WS-15 engine will be ready by middle part of next decade at the latest.
> China is a little ahead of Japan in aerospace now.


I dont think J-20 will come close to this Japanese plane not by any big margin. China is still struggling with radar and engine which Japs dont even consider a parameter leapfrog.


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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> I dont think J-20 will come close to this Japanese plane not by any big margin. China is still struggling with radar and engine which Japs dont even consider a parameter leapfrog.



Chinese radar technology is good now. 
It is only engines and that will be fixed when WS-15 comes into service. 
Yes this new Japanese plane will be better than J-20 but China is already developing a 6th gen successor to J-20 which will come into service in the mid-2030s.


----------



## LKJ86

TopCat said:


> It is already flying..


Are you kidding?


----------



## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Chinese radar technology is good now.
> It is only engines and that will be fixed when WS-15 comes into service.
> Yes this new Japanese plane will be better than J-20 but China is already developing a 6th gen successor to J-20 which will come into service in the mid-2030s.


My main point is not about Japanese plane but the matured technology that F-22 has which many people forgot. Japanese plane exposed some of the technology that F-22 currently using which is wayyyy ahead of its time and rivals.


----------



## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> My main point is not about Japanese plane but the matured technology that F-22 has which many people forgot. Japanese plane exposed some of the technology that F-22 currently using which is wayyyy ahead of its time and rivals.



Really not sure what you are trying to say here?


----------



## Bilal9

Two said:


> I just said what I saw on Taiwan TV news.
> you can't imagine my experience at that time.
> Even now. I'm still trembling!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “China build the Three Gorges Dam with 100 years.
> Only one bomb can destroy the Three Gorges Dam.
> Kill a million people instantly.
> Shanghai will be flooded...”
> 
> I am serious. Bangladesh should consider the Ching-kuo. It's really powerful.
> 
> View attachment 555338



Ha ha 

Renegade province should focus on diplomatic avenues than wasting money on fighters...

Not my quote - but a quote from an older friend of mine (former KMT member).

How will the Ching Kuo get to the Dam? And the PLAAF fighters will be sitting pretty meanwhile? 

The original Ching Kuo is an eighties platform (early early 4th Gen), and that too not potent enough. Even in front of FC-1 it doesn't stand a chance IMHO. Although some compare it to J-10, I don't believe it.

Now the new version may be a bit better with glass cockpit and everything (Hsiang Sheng).



UKBengali said:


> Really not sure what you are trying to say here?



He may be indicating Supercruise or stealth features?



Michael Corleone said:


> i've become near sighted from being around books too much.
> 
> sounds stupid but those who have had this experience can tell you
> 
> well could have got a LASIK, but mom was being stubborn about joining the airforce... and i would have to leave out a year to recover.... LASIK clients need to apply 6 months after it's done



LASIK surgery at one of the nicer LA clinics will set you back about $20,000 for both eyes.


----------



## Bengal71

Michael Corleone said:


> i've become near sighted from being around books too much.
> 
> sounds stupid but those who have had this experience can tell you
> 
> well could have got a LASIK, but mom was being stubborn about joining the airforce... and i would have to leave out a year to recover.... LASIK clients need to apply 6 months after it's done



Which airforce were you going to join? You are not a citizen of Qatar or Kuwait, can you join their AF?


----------



## Michael Corleone

Bengal71 said:


> Which airforce were you going to join? You are not a citizen of Qatar or Kuwait, can you join their AF?


my intentions was to join BAF... dammit if only my father enrolled in the officer cadet training in kuwait airforce pre war... i would have chance of joining kuwaiti air force.

my father did get accepted in kuwaiti armed forces back in the day... true story
backed out at the last moment



Bilal9 said:


> LASIK surgery at one of the nicer LA clinics will set you back about $20,000 for both eyes.


yet the only reason keeping me away from this are the horror stories and the statistical success rates


----------



## Bengal71

Michael Corleone said:


> my intentions was to join BAF... dammit if only my father enrolled in the officer cadet training in kuwait airforce pre war... i would have chance of joining kuwaiti air force.
> 
> my father did get accepted in kuwaiti armed forces back in the day... true story
> backed out at the last moment
> 
> 
> yet the only reason keeping me away from this are the horror stories and the statistical success rates



So if you can join Kuwaiti armed forces, do they give you citizenship?

Don't do laser surgery on your eyes. Specs are good enough.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Bengal71 said:


> So if you can join Kuwaiti armed forces, do they give you citizenship?
> 
> Don't do laser surgery on your eyes. Specs are good enough.


i won't be able to join because the rules have changed... but back in the days... yes that's how it was 
my time is long gone... plus fighter pilots can't wear lens or spectacles 
i'll stick to medicine for the time being

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## SABRE

So, any updates on what fighter BAF is planning to buy? I thought something was to be done earlier this month.


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## UKBengali

SABRE said:


> So, any updates on what fighter BAF is planning to buy? I thought something was to be done earlier this month.




I would not hold my breath.

The idiots at BAF only planned to buy from Russia and with US sanctions, BD would not dare to buy from them.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I would not hold my breath.
> 
> The idiots at BAF only planned to buy from Russia and with US sanctions, BD would not dare to buy from them.




If Trump is serious and santions russia, BD needs to recognise the threat. It is more than likely that trump will win 2020. 

BAF can not remain as it..... there are no western option without issue.... we either go chinese with chinese engine or go swedish or french.

Chinese are also on trumps rader...

I would go with the french. They maintain an independent policy and thus maximum flexibility. It does not matter that the indians have them. Thats my two cent...


----------



## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> If Trump is serious and santions russia, BD needs to recognise the threat. It is more than likely that trump will win 2020.
> 
> BAF can not remain as it..... there are no western option without issue.... we either go chinese with chinese engine or go swedish or french.
> 
> Chinese are also on trumps rader...
> 
> I would go with the french. They maintain an independent policy and thus maximum flexibility. It does not matter that the indians have them. Thats my two cent...



France is too expensive. They would be little better than US/Sweden as they only care about money - just need to remember how they did not sell avionics for JF-17 to Pakistan as the Indians dangled the 126 aircraft MMRCA contract to them back in the 2000s.

BAF needs to see the urgency and order 2-3 squadrons of customised J-10s(AESA radar etc) this year before the inevitable sanctions are placed on China as well. 

Like I have said before, for cost and strategic reasons BAF needs to move to a Chinese and Swedish fighter fleet asap.

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## LKJ86

mb444 said:


> I would go with the french. They maintain an independent policy and thus maximum flexibility. It does not matter that the indians have them. Thats my two cent...


Russia won't agree with you.
Mistral-class assault ships...

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## mb444

LKJ86 said:


> Russia won't agree with you.
> Mistral-class assault ships...



Who will pressure France on BD to such a degree as the Americans did regarding the mistral.....

For BD the french would be more reliable than any other western weapons supplier


----------



## LKJ86

mb444 said:


> Who will pressure France on BD to such a degree as the Americans did regarding the mistral.....


If so, why can't other western weapons suppliers be trusted?


----------



## mb444

LKJ86 said:


> If so, why can't other western weapons suppliers be trusted?



My rationale is simply that the french jets are mostly built by the french thus are immune to pressures. 

Whilst US are swedish options offcourse will come with US political bindings.

BD does not have any allies and lacks leverage globally... it would be very silly to buy any weapons that we can not use....


----------



## LKJ86

mb444 said:


> My rationale is simply that the french jets are mostly built by the french thus are immune to pressures.


You are too naive.

Only the ones builded by yourself are immune to pressures.

And don't forget the S-400 deal between Russia and Turkey.

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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> You are too naive.
> 
> Only the ones builded by yourself are immune to pressures.
> 
> And don't forget the S-400 deal between Russia and Turkey.



BD has started Indigenous arms production as it knows it can only rely on itself in times of war - Turkey(only country who would try to help BD for sure) may not be able to assist as it may not be able to airlift/sealift supplies in case of say war with India.
BN recognises this danger and is building an extremely capable Navy based around 8 next-gen frigates to try to keep it's vital sea lanes open in this case.

BD has started the process of indigenisation in a big way now - China is the major supplier of ToT for the BD home arms industry.


----------



## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> BD has started Indigenous arms production as it knows it can only rely on itself in times of war - Turkey(only country who would try to help BD for sure) may not be able to assist as it may not be able to airlift/sealift supplies in case of say war with India.
> BN recognises this danger and is building an extremely capable Navy based around 8 next-gen frigates to try to keep it's vital sea lanes open in this case.
> 
> BD has started the process of indigenisation in a big way now - China is the major supplier of ToT for the BD home arms industry.



What?

Please tell me about this process of indiginisation.

For an encore please inform me of the BD arms industry as well.

You must be smoking some good sh$t.


----------



## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> What?
> 
> Please tell me about this process of indiginisation.
> 
> For an encore please inform me of the BD arms industry as well.
> 
> You must be smoking some good sh$t.



Please learn to research before commenting. 
Examples are FN-16 Manpads, Durjoy class LPCs and looking for partner for next-gen frigate to be built in BD. There is lots of other things happening as well. 
Process has started but will of course take many decades to complete.


----------



## SABRE

UKBengali said:


> BD has started Indigenous arms production as it knows it can only rely on itself in times of war - Turkey(only country who would try to help BD for sure) may not be able to assist as it may not be able to airlift/sealift supplies in case of say war with India.
> BN recognises this danger and is building an extremely capable Navy based around 8 next-gen frigates to try to keep it's vital sea lanes open in this case.
> 
> BD has started the process of indigenisation in a big way now - China is the major supplier of ToT for the BD home arms industry.



As long as Hasina is in power there will be no war with India and if she plays her cards well BD might be highly dependent on India by the time any opposition is able to take over. Regardless of geopolitics, the extent to which BD's arms industries will be producing weapons will not be quantitatively and qualitatively sufficient to take on India. The asymmetry between the two countries' armed forces is just too wide for BD to narrow down, even in the long run. BD's symmetrical rival is Myanmar. My knowledge of Myanmar's armed forces is quite meager, for that matter also of BD's armed forces, but from what it appears BD can pose challenges to them except maybe in the air power where Myanmar has taken a quick leap ahead. Even in their current composition Myanmar Air Force seems quite ahead in numbers. In the next five to eight years time if they are able to acquire all of their JF-17s and Su-30s they can inflict heavy damage to BD's armed forces in the case of near term war. Something that BD should also factor in is that Myanmar's pilots might be getting training from Chinese, Russian, and Pakistani air forces, thus diversifying the ways of operations and tactics. In that case, BAF not only needs to factor in the technology & supplier when evaluating potential fighter aircraft but also operational and tactical training package as well.

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## UKBengali

SABRE said:


> As long as Hasina is in power there will be no war with India and if she plays her cards well BD might be highly dependent on India by the time any opposition is able to take over. Regardless of geopolitics, the extent to which BD's arms industries will be producing weapons will not be quantitatively and qualitatively sufficient to take on India. The asymmetry between the two countries' armed forces is just too wide for BD to narrow down, even in the long run. BD's symmetrical rival is Myanmar. My knowledge of Myanmar's armed forces is quite meager, for that matter also of BD's armed forces, but from what it appears BD can pose challenges to them except maybe in the air power where Myanmar has taken a quick leap ahead. Even in their current composition Myanmar Air Force seems quite ahead in numbers. In the next five to eight years time if they are able to acquire all of their JF-17s and Su-30s they can inflict high damage to BD's armed forces in the case of near term war. Something that BD should also factor in is that Myanmar's pilots might be getting training from Chinese, Russian, and Pakistani air forces, thus diversifying the ways of operations and tactics. In that case, BAF not only needs to factor in the technology & supplier when evaluating potential fighter aircraft but also operational and tactical training package as well.



Even BAF in next 5 years will get 2-3 squadrons of high performance fighters. Remember that BAF knows how to fly 4th gen fighters as it has had 8 Mig-29s since 2001.
BN and BA are superior to their Myanmar counterparts. 

I think you are overestimating the damage that MAF can do to BA and BN as both are armed with highly effective SAMs - MAF can do damage to BD infrastructure and civilian shipping for sure.


----------



## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Please learn to research before commenting.
> Examples are FN-16 Manpads, Durjoy class LPCs and looking for partner for next-gen frigate to be built in BD. There is lots of other things happening as well.
> Process has started but will of course take many decades to complete.



BD will be depenedant on others for her defence for the foreseeable future.

Putting things together in a factory is a far cry from thinking about, designing and then manufacturing in quantiites what a nation needs.

BD has bigger fish to fry in terms of where to allocate her LIMITED resources.

So talk like that where it makes it seem BD has any ability to chart an independant course is foolish.

Case in point.

Its 2019, and there STILL hasnt been anything tangible in the BAF procurement of 4+ gen fighters.

They can't even effectively BUY planes.

What makes you think BD can design and manufacture them?

I will say, of course you have to start somewhere.

Build more schools.

Get the local population more educated at least on a basic level.

And improve the quantity and quality of higher education.

These are the building blocks to progress in a nation.

Despite what some irrelevant people say here, Bengalis are intellectually very capable.

The real goal is to harness that within the population and utilize it.

For defence matters and everything else.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> BD will be depenedant on others for her defence for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Putting things together in a factory is a far cry from thinking about, designing and then manufacturing in quantiites what a nation needs.
> 
> BD has bigger fish to fry in terms of where to allocate her LIMITED resources.
> 
> So talk like that where it makes it seem BD has any ability to chart an independant course is foolish.
> 
> Case in point.
> 
> Its 2019, and there STILL hasnt been anything tangible in the BAF procurement of 4+ gen fighters.
> 
> They can't even effectively BUY planes.
> 
> What makes you think BD can design and manufacture them?
> 
> I will say, of course you have to start somewhere.
> 
> Build more schools.
> 
> Get the local population more educated.
> 
> These are the building blocks to progress in a nation.



Like I say process will take decades. 

Schools are not really the issue as nearly every child gets a 
decent education in the stem subjects(maths, science) now but better higher education as BD lacks knowledge in this sector. The best way to get this is to sponsor many bright students to go overseas into elite institutions and then get some work experience in the sector in countries like USA and UK. Then they can be lured back to BD to apply their talents in their homeland both in universities and also in industry. 

A start is being made with plans to start off with a trainer and then move onto a fighter aircraft. 

What BD has going for it is a large population and growing economy- large talent pool and lots of money are required to build an aerospace industry. 

Fighter procurement shambles cannot be linked to building an aerospace industry over many decades. There are both budgetary and other things that we do not know about that has caused the BAF to be the pathetic force it is today. 

This all needs effective leadership and what I can see is that the government seems serious about this. Better to see the glass as half-full than half-empty. Positivity has a momentum all of it's own.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Like I say process will take decades.
> 
> Schools are not really the issue as nearly every child gets a
> decent education in the stem subjects(maths, science) now but better higher education as BD lacks knowledge in this sector. The best way to get this is to sponsor many bright students to go overseas into elite institutions and then get some work experience in the sector in countries like USA and UK. Then they can be lured back to BD to apply their talents in their homeland both in universities and also in industry.
> 
> A start is being made with plans to start off with a trainer and then move onto a fighter aircraft.
> 
> What BD has going for it is a large population and growing economy- large talent pool and lots of money are required to build an aerospace industry.
> 
> Fighter procurement shambles cannot be linked to building an aerospace industry over many decades. There are both budgetary and other things that we do not know about that has caused the BAF to be the pathetic force it is today.
> 
> This all needs effective leadership and what I can see is that the government seems serious about this. Better to see the glass as half-full than half-empty. Positivity has a momentum all of it's own.



I am a pessimist to be honest.

But there is value in your post.

I hope and pray BD can realize its potential going forward.

Anyways, back to BAF.

Crickets.......

So maybe theres hope for a Western choice?

Is the Russian plan continuing or what?


----------



## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I am a pessimist to be honest.
> 
> But there is value in your post.
> 
> I hope and pray BD can realize its potential going forward.
> 
> Anyways, back to BAF.
> 
> Crickets.......
> 
> So maybe theres hope for a Western choice?
> 
> Is the Russian plan continuing or what?



I really cannot see BD daring to buy from Russia now - US can hit BD in so many ways and make it very painful. 

While I would prefer for BAF to get Gripen E or Gripen C with AESA radar, something tells me that if they go Western then it will be US planes - probably refurbished F-16s. Not really that bad a choice as they would be better than anything Myanmar has.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I really cannot see BD daring to buy from Russia now - US can hit BD in so many ways and make it very painful.
> 
> While I would prefer for BAF to get Gripen E or Gripen C with AESA radar, something tells me that if they go Western then it will be US planes - probably refurbished F-16s. Not really that bad a choice as they would be better than anything Myanmar has.



I would be happy with that.

Refurbished F-16 arent a bad choice or Gripen.

Of course, that puts you in the US orbit.

But BD is a benign country without any issues that are opposed to US policy.

Its utility to the US and China are fairly limited anyways.

What I do think BD has to prepare for is an increasingly hostile Myanmar next door.

The only thing these people will understand is military strength.


----------



## mb444

LKJ86 said:


> You are too naive.
> 
> Only the ones builded by yourself are immune to pressures.
> 
> And don't forget the S-400 deal between Russia and Turkey.




Bangladesh is not going to be building any fighters any time soon.

Bangladesh simply has choices between a limited number of sources.

Of these russian is the best choice but not if it encourages US sanctions. Chinese planes are untested and in a conflict with burma they are likely to be unreliable so i would not want chinese jets at this stage.

BD also can not efford much... leaves only a few western options and off these French comes with least strings.


----------



## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I would be happy with that.
> 
> Refurbished F-16 arent a bad choice or Gripen.
> 
> Of course, that puts you in the US orbit.
> 
> But BD is a benign country without any issues that are opposed to US policy.
> 
> Its utility to the US and China are fairly limited anyways.
> 
> What I do think BD has to prepare for is an increasingly hostile Myanmar next door.
> 
> The only thing these people will understand is military strength.



I think when US urged BD to buy arms from them, the chances of BD being cleared for Gripen went to pretty much zero. 
USA wants to bring BD under it's influence it seems.



mb444 said:


> Bangladesh is not going to be building any fighters any time soon.
> 
> Bangladesh simply has choices between a limited number of sources.
> 
> Of these russian is the best choice but not if it encourages US sanctions. Chinese planes are untested and in a conflict with burma they are likely to be unreliable so i would not want chinese jets at this stage.
> 
> BD also can not efford much... leaves only a few western options and off these French comes with least strings.



Chinese planes untested? 
Tell that to PAF who sent JF-17s to face SU-30MKIs earlier this year. 
French planes are extremely expensive to buy and operate.

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## Pakistani Fighter

UKBengali said:


> BD has started Indigenous arms production as it knows it can only rely on itself in times of war - Turkey(only country who would try to help BD for sure) may not be able to assist as it may not be able to airlift/sealift supplies in case of say war with India.
> BN recognises this danger and is building an extremely capable Navy based around 8 next-gen frigates to try to keep it's vital sea lanes open in this case.
> 
> BD has started the process of indigenisation in a big way now - China is the major supplier of ToT for the BD home arms industry.


Stop lying. Pakistan will be the only country to help Bangladesh


----------



## UKBengali

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Stop lying. Pakistan will be the only country to help Bangladesh



Yeah like how Pakistan has supplied Myanmar with JF-17s.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

UKBengali said:


> Yeah like how Pakistan has supplied Myanmar with JF-17s.


Let India threaten you with Air Strike. You will se our DG ISPR respond to that


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## UKBengali

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Let India threaten you with Air Strike. You will se our DG ISPR respond to that



India is not the actual threat to BD but Myanmar. 

Believe it or not, but the relations between India and BD are actually pretty good.


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## Pakistani Fighter

UKBengali said:


> India is not the actual threat to BD but Myanmar.
> 
> Believe it or not, but the relations between India and BD are actually pretty good.


Yeah I know. But once Hasina is dethroned. You will see


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## UKBengali

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Yeah I know. But once Hasina is dethroned. You will see



That will not happen.

BD and India are so tightly locked in economically and politically that no sane future government in BD will do anything to harm India's national interest as that would only harm BD.


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## Deathstar

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Yeah I know. But once Hasina is dethroned. You will see


Lol i guess u dont know about Indo-Bangladesh cooperation , barring migrant issue all other including land agreement has been solved with Bangladesh , we helped them with aid during Rohingya crisis , what Pakistan did to help Bangladesh again?infact Bangladesh has surpassed Pakistan in terms of development

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I think when US urged BD to buy arms from them, the chances of BD being cleared for Gripen went to pretty much zero.
> USA wants to bring BD under it's influence it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese planes untested?
> Tell that to PAF who sent JF-17s to face SU-30MKIs earlier this year.
> French planes are extremely expensive to buy and operate.



We do not really know what happened. You can not base such descisions on incomplete info.

Chinese planes are untested in my opinion. They are making progress but you can not hurry maturity. 

Pre rohingya debacle i would have said go chinese and build up numbers which is a deterrant in off itself.

But a conflict is coming and we need to prepare accordingly.

Now all things considered russia was the way to go.... if that path is blocked i am firmly of the opinion that french is the least problematic option.

We have not bothered to develop things ourselves so at the mercy of weapon sellers..... every option is bad....we need to weigh things up and choose a path with least obstacles


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## Pakistani Fighter

mb444 said:


> We do not really know what happened. You can not base such descisions on incomplete info.
> 
> Chinese planes are untested in my opinion. They are making progress but you can not hurry maturity.
> 
> Pre rohingya debacle i would have said go chinese and build up numbers which is a deterrant in off itself.
> 
> But a conflict is coming and we need to prepare accordingly.
> 
> Now all things considered russia was the way to go.... if that path is blocked i am firmly of the opinion that french is the least problematic option.
> 
> We have not bothered to develop things ourselves so at the mercy of weapon sellers..... every option is bad....we need to weigh things up and choose a path with least obstacles


You can buy from us


----------



## mb444

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> You can buy from us



I assume you are pakistani.... the same calculus applies....BD can not rely on you in the event of a war with burma.... you are a weapons seller to burma.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> We do not really know what happened. You can not base such descisions on incomplete info.
> 
> Chinese planes are untested in my opinion. They are making progress but you can not hurry maturity.
> 
> Pre rohingya debacle i would have said go chinese and build up numbers which is a deterrant in off itself.
> 
> But a conflict is coming and we need to prepare accordingly.
> 
> Now all things considered russia was the way to go.... if that path is blocked i am firmly of the opinion that french is the least problematic option.
> 
> We have not bothered to develop things ourselves so at the mercy of weapon sellers..... every option is bad....we need to weigh things up and choose a path with least obstacles



French fighters are TOO expensive.

No WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.

Maybe you can buy 1 Rafale.

LOL.

BAF like any air arm needs quality as well as quantity.

Politically, it seems the Chinese are in Myanmar's camp.

And you are quite correct in that conflict may be coming.

Like it or not, BD needs to court the US and source its weapons accordingly.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> We do not really know what happened. You can not base such descisions on incomplete info.
> 
> Chinese planes are untested in my opinion. They are making progress but you can not hurry maturity.
> 
> Pre rohingya debacle i would have said go chinese and build up numbers which is a deterrant in off itself.
> 
> But a conflict is coming and we need to prepare accordingly.
> 
> Now all things considered russia was the way to go.... if that path is blocked i am firmly of the opinion that french is the least problematic option.
> 
> We have not bothered to develop things ourselves so at the mercy of weapon sellers..... every option is bad....we need to weigh things up and choose a path with least obstacles



India brought 36 Rafale for 8.1 US billion dollars. That included training, weapons, maintenance and infrastructure.
I am pretty sure that the French would insist on BD buying 24 planes as a minimum - at a cost of likely 6 billion US dollars.
The Rafale also costs much more than a single-engine plane to operate.
BD just cannot afford to go French as it is a rich man's plane or a country like India with more than 1 billion population.
Gripen and F-16 are affordable planes for countries with small defence budgets and that is why you see them in the airforces of S Africa and Thailand.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> India brought 36 Rafale for 8.1 US billion dollars. That included training, weapons maintenance and infrastructure.
> I am pretty sure that the French would insist on BD buying 24 planes as a minimum - at a cost of likely 6 billion US dollars.
> The Rafale also costs much more than a single-engine plane to operate.
> BD just cannot afford to go French as it is a rich man's plane or a country like India with more than 1 billion population.
> Gripen and F-16 are affordable planes for countries with small defence budgets and that is why you see them in the airforces of S Africa and Thailand.



Yea even Brazil ultimately chose the Gripen over Rafale.

Although of course we don't know the actual factors in that decision.

Going forward, I see the US courting India and to a far far lesser extent BD as a hedge against China in the 
"Indo-Pacific" region.

There is a reason for that name change.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Yea even Brazil ultimately chose the Gripen over Rafale.
> 
> Although of course we don't know the actual factors in that decision.
> 
> Going forward, I see the US courting India and to a far far lesser extent BD as a hedge against China in the
> "Indo-Pacific" region.
> 
> There is a reason for that name change.



USA just wants to make sure that BD and China do not forget the Rohingya issue and go back to relations pre-2017, unlikely that may be. 
Getting BD into the US arms eco-system kind of guarantees that. 
BD may not be a major player but it still is a player of some kind in the game of US-China confrontation.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Even BAF in next 5 years will get 2-3 squadrons of high performance fighters.


this has been happening for the past 1 decade mind you... no result though

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> this has been happening for the past 1 decade mind you... no result though



I have hope still.


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## Pakistani Fighter

mb444 said:


> I assume you are pakistani.... the same calculus applies....BD can not rely on you in the event of a war with burma.... you are a weapons seller to burma.


Why and How is Burma your enemy?


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## Michael Corleone

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Why and How is Burma your enemy?


those chimps are messing with us since the 2000s they have not learnt their lesson back in 2001 and came to challenge us at sea drilling in our territory... ran away and are now testing our patience time to time with their shenanigans


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> French fighters are TOO expensive.
> 
> No WAY TOO EXPENSIVE.
> 
> Maybe you can buy 1 Rafale.
> 
> LOL.
> 
> BAF like any air arm needs quality as well as quantity.
> 
> Politically, it seems the Chinese are in Myanmar's camp.
> 
> And you are quite correct in that conflict may be coming.
> 
> Like it or not, BD needs to court the US and source its weapons accordingly.


If we go for any european plane then it will be Typhoon through UK. They are our most trusted ally and at the time of war, you can get constant supply no matter you are able to pay or not. Weapons purchase is all about strategic relation not about which one is cheapest or most potent.


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## LKJ86



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## ghost250

"The UK further expressed its readiness to support Bangladesh with procurement of high calibre Multi Role Combat Aircraft alongside other modernisation programmes".....


uuumm, typhoon??

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...9Z33_jmBfSJvd1cCe1MEn23RxTM40l7syQEorTA6Ntdog

#DTB

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## Pakistan Space Agency

What fighter aircraft has Bangladesh officially ordered or has received this decade?

Cab someone shed some light?


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## UKBengali

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> What fighter aircraft has Bangladesh officially ordered or has received this decade?
> 
> Cab someone shed some light?



F-7BGI fighter from China
K-8W trainer from China
Yak-130 trainer from Russia


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## Pakistan Space Agency

UKBengali said:


> F-7BGI fighter from China
> K-8W trainer from China
> Yak-130 trainer from Russia


How many F-7BGI fighters have been acquired?


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## UKBengali

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> How many F-7BGI fighters have been acquired?



16.


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## mb444

shourov323 said:


> "The UK further expressed its readiness to support Bangladesh with procurement of high calibre Multi Role Combat Aircraft alongside other modernisation programmes".....
> 
> 
> uuumm, typhoon??
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...9Z33_jmBfSJvd1cCe1MEn23RxTM40l7syQEorTA6Ntdog
> 
> #DTB




Great if true.... but the typhoon costs more than the rafale which is apparently beyond the means of BD.

2 sqd of typhoon completented by chinese J10s would completely change the situation and we would be able to not only defend but comfortably take the fight to the enemies.

I would love to see the eurofighter in BD skies.... but i just dont see it...

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## Avicenna

shourov323 said:


> "The UK further expressed its readiness to support Bangladesh with procurement of high calibre Multi Role Combat Aircraft alongside other modernisation programmes".....
> 
> 
> uuumm, typhoon??
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...9Z33_jmBfSJvd1cCe1MEn23RxTM40l7syQEorTA6Ntdog
> 
> #DTB



Alhamdulilah!

Fantastic!

It's a start.



mb444 said:


> Great if true.... but the typhoon costs more than the rafale which is apparently beyond the means of BD.
> 
> 2 sqd of typhoon completented by chinese J10s would completely change the situation and we would be able to not only defend but comfortably take the fight to the enemies.
> 
> I would love to see the eurofighter in BD skies.... but i just dont see it...



Gripen perhaps.

Alot of UK components.

Either way, good to see some interest in Euro countries selling to BD.

The language in this UK document was explicit as can be without naming names.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Alhamdulilah!
> 
> Fantastic!
> 
> It's a start.
> 
> 
> 
> Gripen perhaps.
> 
> Alot of UK components.
> 
> Either way, good to see some interest in Euro countries selling to BD.
> 
> The language in this UK document was explicit as can be without naming names.




Gripens production line is not extensive.... pricing wise although lower i do not think 2nd generation is available anymore..... sweden kept production line open for a bit and i think they are geared up for 3rd generation....the swedish are not rich enough to have multiple production line open.... 3rd generation gripens are not too far from rafale in cost...

Any how I would fully support BD going british to build up BAF.... given colonial links BD should push for the typhoon, a deal can be worked out that benefits both.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Gripens production line is not extensive.... pricing wise although lower i do not think 2nd generation is available anymore..... sweden kept production line open for a bit and i think they are geared up for 3rd generation....the swedish are not rich enough to have multiple production line open.... 3rd generation gripens are not too far from rafale in cost...
> 
> Any how I would fully support BD going british to build up BAF.... given colonial links BD should push for the typhoon, a deal can be worked out that benefits both.


pretty sure a barter agreement can be arranged if necessary... clothes/ spices/ pharmaceuticals and some cash 

at this point. bd should get what it can't afford tbh. no point in not buying anything and have the economy tank once the adversary attacks the ports

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## Pakistan Space Agency

I see more chances of F-16s or J-10s in Bangladeshi colours rather than any European fighter (although I see a lot of resistance from India to this approach).

Any reason why Bangladesh never acquired Mirages like Pakistan/India did? It could've built up it's own Mirage related assembly/repair facilities by now like Pakistan/India have.


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## Michael Corleone

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> I see more chances of F-16s or J-10s in Bangladeshi colours rather than any European fighter (although I see a lot of resistance from India to this approach).
> 
> Any reason why Bangladesh never acquired Mirages like Pakistan/India did? It could've built up it's own Mirage related assembly/repair facilities by now like Pakistan/India have.


when pakistan stacked up mirages... bangladesh was hella poor to warrant a well armed military... we just got handed down lots of f-6s from pakistan... but the Air chief at the time could care less to move them to dhaka and let them sit in crates in Cox's bazar when a cyclone hit the area and killed all the fleet
bd went to US for f16 after that but US told BD to concentrate on building a good economy, there's no reason a country like bd would need f16s
which is why we bought mig 29s albeit the next govt cancelled the order and tried to sell the fleet
basically our own govt. was agaisnt our air force.
Hasina is doing her best to get the air force back up tbh

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Michael Corleone said:


> ... Hasina is doing her best to get the air force back up tbh


I'm really surprised how slow Bangladesh's approach to modernising their air force is even today.

Even Iraq is now flying F-16s after what they've been through.


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> when pakistan stacked up mirages... bangladesh was hella poor to warrant a well armed military... we just got handed down lots of f-6s from pakistan... but the Air chief at the time could care less to move them to dhaka and let them sit in crates in Cox's bazar when a cyclone hit the area and killed all the fleet
> bd went to US for f16 after that but US told BD to concentrate on building a good economy, there's no reason a country like bd would need f16s
> which is why we bought mig 29s albeit the next govt cancelled the order and tried to sell the fleet
> basically our own govt. was agaisnt our air force.
> Hasina is doing her best to get the air force back up tbh




Pretty much agree but Hasina needs to kick the butt of the leaders of the air-force on why they have not yet signed a deal for 4th gen fighters yet.
Idiots keep signing contract after contract for trainers but not for fighters.

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> pretty sure a barter agreement can be arranged if necessary... clothes/ spices/ pharmaceuticals and some cash
> 
> at this point. bd should get what it can't afford tbh. no point in not buying anything and have the economy tank once the adversary attacks the ports




Barter arrangements!!!! Clothes, pharma etc are produced and sold by private companies. BD gov do not produce anything and we have no oil. Additionally barter works only with the likes of Russia who have shortage of hard currency... wont work with UK..... thats a complete non starter...



Pakistan Space Agency said:


> I see more chances of F-16s or J-10s in Bangladeshi colours rather than any European fighter (although I see a lot of resistance from India to this approach).
> 
> Any reason why Bangladesh never acquired Mirages like Pakistan/India did? It could've built up it's own Mirage related assembly/repair facilities by now like Pakistan/India have.



No money and priority was to get the country on its feet economically post 1971.



Pakistan Space Agency said:


> I'm really surprised how slow Bangladesh's approach to modernising their air force is even today.
> 
> Even Iraq is now flying F-16s after what they've been through.



We dont have oil.


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## TopCat

mb444 said:


> Gripens production line is not extensive.... pricing wise although lower i do not think 2nd generation is available anymore..... sweden kept production line open for a bit and i think they are geared up for 3rd generation....the swedish are not rich enough to have multiple production line open.... 3rd generation gripens are not too far from rafale in cost...
> 
> Any how I would fully support BD going british to build up BAF.... given colonial links BD should push for the typhoon, a deal can be worked out that benefits both.


Even though sound bitter but our colonial past has a special place in the british society specially for the Bengal region. So you will find brits always behind BD in international arena.
I strongly support purchasing of Typhoon over any Russian fighter. I believe BD has hardly any other choice other than going with F-16.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Even though sound bitter but our colonial past has a special place in the british society specially for the Bengal region. So you will find brits always behind BD in international arena.
> I strongly support purchasing of Typhoon over any Russian fighter. I believe BD has hardly any other choice other than going with F-16.



Too expensive honestly.

I don't know what they meant by saying UK will support BD with efforts to obtain fighters.

I just can't believe Typhoon in BAF service.

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## TopCat

mb444 said:


> I see more chances of F-16s or J-10s in Bangladeshi colours rather than any European fighter (although I see a lot of resistance from India to this approach).
> 
> Any reason why Bangladesh never acquired Mirages like Pakistan/India did? It could've built up it's own Mirage related assembly/repair facilities by now like Pakistan/India have.


I dont think BD has strong political relation with France. We have almost nothing from French source.



Avicenna said:


> Too expensive honestly.
> 
> I don't know what they meant by saying UK will support BD with efforts to obtain fighters.
> 
> I just can't believe Typhoon in BAF service.


BAF shortlisted SU-35 and Typhoon for the purchase. I am sure some sort of negotiation is going on behind the scence. BD can certainly afford 8 Typhoon in short term.

How about Jaguar. Do they still make them?

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> I dont think BD has strong political relation with France. We have almost nothing from French source.
> 
> 
> BAF shortlisted SU-35 and Typhoon for the purchase. I am sure some sort of negotiation is going on behind the scence. BD can certainly afford 8 Tophoon in short term.
> 
> How about Jaguar. Do they still make them?



Jaguars are old and out of production a long time ago.

Really, UK has nothing to offer that fits what BD is looking for other than Typhoon.

LOL unless we are talking Tempest down the road. (Joking of course)

The other remote possibility are used Tranche 1 Typhoons.

Or perhaps it was a reference to Saab-BAE Gripen.

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## TopCat

TopCat said:


> Or perhaps it was a reference to Saab-BAE Gripen.


No I am dont think brits will mediate with Saab. As Brits is one of the party (not the sole party) of Typhoon, they might try to get a discount for BD from other parties. Thats what he probably meant.
BD will certainly not gonna pay the same price as the other Arabs paid. Make sure of that.

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> No I am dont think brits will mediate with Saab. As Brits is one of the party (not the sole party) of Typhoon, they might try to get a discount for BD from other parties. Thats what he probably meant.



Who knows.

I will just say that it was an interesting note in that document.

I wasnt expecting something like that.

So it looks like both the US and UK have addressed weapons sales to BD.

I am 100% in favor of sourcing the new fighter from the West.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Who knows.
> 
> I will just say that it was an interesting note in that document.
> 
> I wasnt expecting something like that.
> 
> So it looks like both the US and UK have addressed weapons sales to BD.


Yap, some politics is going on behind the scene... BD will certainly be pulled in the western block...

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Yap, some politics is going on behind the scene... BD will certainly be pulled in the western block...



Bangladesh is a very reasonable country.

Politically, I don't see any reason why it cant or shouldnt buy from the West, now that finances have improved.

F-16, Typhoon, Gripen.

I will take any of them over Mig-35 or Su-30.

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## UKBengali

@Avicenna @TopCat

I think that Typhoon in small numbers(8-12) is totally affordable for BAF.
While it can be freely used against Myanmar we can forget about India as the UK is in India big-time economically.
Anyway the chances of conflict with India in the next 1-2 decades is remote and BD would be in big trouble if relations with India came to war.
The concern with Typhoon is that it will cost 30-40% more to acquire and more than twice as much to operate than say Gripen E, which is probably out of reach now that it looks like USA is trying to sell F-16s to BD.
Maybe the cost of Typhoon is the price that BD needs to pay to get the most reliable Western jet it can get - even a squadron(12) of the latest Typhoon with AESA radar and Meteor BVRAAM, when acting with say Saab Global Eye AWACs, can pretty much neutralise the MAF.
Question is will BD government find the 4 billion US dollars even this small purchase will entail?

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> @Avicenna @TopCat
> Question is will BD government find the 4 billion US dollars even this small purchase will entail?


With political backing this price comes down substantially. From where did you come up with 4billion number

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> With political backing this price comes down substantially. From where did you come up with 4billion number




What other countries have paid.

This figure would include the 12 planes, 2-3 Global Erieye, Weapons(missiles and bombs), training, infrastructure setup, and 5-10 years of maintenance support.

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## Michael Corleone

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> I'm really surprised how slow Bangladesh's approach to modernising their air force is even today.
> 
> Even Iraq is now flying F-16s after what they've been through.


Iraq has oil, Bangladesh doesn’t


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> @Avicenna @TopCat
> 
> I think that Typhoon in small numbers(8-12) is totally affordable for BAF.
> While it can be freely used against Myanmar we can forget about India as the UK is in India big-time economically.
> Anyway the chances of conflict with India in the next 1-2 decades is remote and BD would be in big trouble if relations with India came to war.
> The concern with Typhoon is that it will cost 30-40% more to acquire and more than twice as much to operate than say Gripen E, which is probably out of reach now that it looks like USA is trying to sell F-16s to BD.
> Maybe the cost of Typhoon is the price that BD needs to pay to get the most reliable Western jet it can get - even a squadron(12) of the latest Typhoon with AESA radar and Meteor BVRAAM, when acting with say Saab Global Eye AWACs, can pretty much neutralise the MAF.
> Question is will BD government find the 4 billion US dollars even this small purchase will entail?



Who knows man.

All this is just really interesting speculation to me.

But I do think there is some political maneuvering being done behind the scenes which perhaps is delaying the purchase.

I really think the equation has changed post Rohingya.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/tatmadaw-underscores-strategic-partnership-with-china-russia.617039/

And to prove my point I see the above.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Who knows man.
> 
> All this is just really interesting speculation to me.
> 
> But I do think there is some political maneuvering being done behind the scenes which perhaps is delaying the purchase.
> 
> I really think the equation has changed post Rohingya.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/tatmadaw-underscores-strategic-partnership-with-china-russia.617039/
> 
> And to prove my point I see the above.



Yep, I think that without Rohingya and US sanctions on Russia, then BAF would have already ordered Russian and maybe Chinese fighters as well.

Buying US would mean that BD would have to align even more with US policies but procuring something like the Typhoon gives BD more control over the use of the aircraft and it's foreign policy.

Although Typhoon is really, really expensive, BD can afford them in limited numbers and that should suffice to keep the MAF at bay.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Yep, I think that without Rohingya and US sanctions on Russia, then BAF would have already ordered Russian and maybe Chinese fighters as well.
> 
> Buying US would mean that BD would have to align even more with US policies but procuring something like the Typhoon gives BD more control over the use of the aircraft and it's foreign policy.
> 
> Although Typhoon is really, really expensive, BD can afford them in limited numbers and that should suffice to keep the MAF at bay.



One thing to note is that there is no love lost between UK and Burma going back to WW2 days.

I think BD needs to engage more with the the West, be it US, UK or other Euro nations.

I really do think conflict in some form is a possibility going forward with Myanmar.

At the very least BD needs to be prepared for such an eventuality.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> One thing to note is that there is no love lost between UK and Burma going back to WW2 days.
> 
> I think BD needs to engage more with the the West, be it US, UK or other Euro nations.
> 
> I really do think conflict in some form is a possibility going forward with Myanmar.
> 
> At the very least BD needs to be prepared for such an eventuality.


Ya Monkeys feel pride of siding with Japs in every state visit to Japan which even makes japan ashamed. But these monkeys conveniently skip the fact that they jumped ship at last moment when they realized Japanese were loosing. Who will feel love lost for them? May be another monkey... or not.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Perhaps it could be for their old tornados? I'm pretty sure most were going to be retired this year right?


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Perhaps it could be for their old tornados? I'm pretty sure most were going to be retired this year right?



No way.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> No way.


Seems like Something Bangladesh would do, probably affordable as well


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Seems like Something Bangladesh would do, probably affordable as well



Doesn't fulfill requirements.

Too expensive to operate.

Not multi-role.

Zero percent chance.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Doesn't fulfill requirements.
> 
> Too expensive to operate.
> 
> Not multi-role.
> 
> Zero percent chance.



MAF JF-17 Block 2s would eat the Tornados for breakfast.


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Doesn't fulfill requirements.
> 
> Too expensive to operate.
> 
> Not multi-role.
> 
> Zero percent chance.



The ground-attack Tornados were expensive high-end NATO spec platforms and are gas guzzlers (well all seventies era jets can be, but these double engine platforms REALLY were).

The ground attack variants were optimized for low level supersonic missions, putting tremendous fatigue on the air-frames. I'd doubt if any of them will pass a 'c' or 'd' check once the are disassembled.

The swing wings will be another source of maintenance headaches.

The Tornado interceptor however had a different problem.

This is from wiki,

"Essentially they took a heavy air-frame optimized for low-level flight (Tornado ground attack version), with engines optimized for low-level flight, with a radar optimized for attacking ground targets from low-level flight, and attempted to turn it into an interceptor intended to attack bombers at medium and high altitudes.

Despite its ‘F’ designation, and the euphemistic ‘interim’ description, the F.Mk 2 did not have a functioning radar and lacked several other vital components for a modern fighter. The center of gravity issues caused by the absent radar were solved with a large chunk of concrete ballast satirically dubbed the ‘Blue Circle radar’ after a cement brand. Sometimes a heavy metal plate was substituted instead of the concrete chunk. Despite the Tornado’s terrible high altitude performance and poor agility, huge amounts of money and time led to the F.Mk 3 – which eventually matured into a capable weapon system.

So - long story short, bad design to start with, and refurbishing these would be a money-losing exercise.

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## Arthur

Typhoons are plausible option for BAF. Even old tranche 1 would be good leap in capabilities.

I am in support of Typhoons for few reason.

1. Good counter to any current and future inductions by our neighbours.

2. Technological superiority.

3. Will be possible to acquire in number.

Now on the third point. There is a good number of old Ttyphoons in UK, Italy & Germany. These airframes are not that old and many still has good amount of hours left in them. I believe UK and Italy will be willing to sell them if we come up with a reasonable proposal. 12 new+ 20/24 old tranche 1= total 32/36 unit will be good a number.

Only downside would be older Typhoons are really costly to maintain. But we have to consider that EU armed forces are under domestic pressure to cut costs. So any amount in maintenance for these airframes are often hyped up by the media. 

But whatever we do regarding the Typhoons, we have to hurry. AFAIK Malaysia too is interested in Typhoons.

On the matter of AESA equipped figher. Well they are surely good. But it's not essential for us to equip every single of them with one. It will only put a hole in our pocket. A good old fourth generation radar equipped aircraft backed up by a AESA equipped AWACS like Eryie ER or Global Eryie is good enough for BAF. 
Look more closely, there is a good lesson for us in 27'th February.

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## Bengal71

Bilal9 said:


> The ground-attack Tornados were expensive high-end NATO spec platforms and are gas guzzlers (well all seventies era jets can be, but these double engine platforms REALLY were).
> 
> The ground attack variants were optimized for low level supersonic missions, putting tremendous fatigue on the air-frames. I'd doubt if any of them will pass a 'c' or 'd' check once the are disassembled.
> 
> The swing wings will be another source of maintenance headaches.
> 
> The Tornado interceptor however had a different problem.
> 
> This is from wiki,
> 
> "Essentially they took a heavy air-frame optimized for low-level flight (Tornado ground attack version), with engines optimized for low-level flight, with a radar optimized for attacking ground targets from low-level flight, and attempted to turn it into an interceptor intended to attack bombers at medium and high altitudes.
> 
> Despite its ‘F’ designation, and the euphemistic ‘interim’ description, the F.Mk 2 did not have a functioning radar and lacked several other vital components for a modern fighter. The center of gravity issues caused by the absent radar were solved with a large chunk of concrete ballast satirically dubbed the ‘Blue Circle radar’ after a cement brand. Sometimes a heavy metal plate was substituted instead of the concrete chunk. Despite the Tornado’s terrible high altitude performance and poor agility, huge amounts of money and time led to the F.Mk 3 – which eventually matured into a capable weapon system.
> 
> So - long story short, bad design to start with, and refurbishing these would be a money-losing exercise.



Typhoons are not a good choice. If we go for western fighter, the only good option is Rafale although it's expensive. American jets and Gripens are susceptible to American mood swing, you pretty much handover your balls to the Americans for them to squeeze whenever they feel like.

BD should go for two jets, J-10 in high numbers, Rafale in lower numbers. Russian platforms should be dumped entirely. Only good thing from Russia that can be acquired are small arms, ATGMs, transport helicopters.


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## TopCat

Bengal71 said:


> Typhoons are not a good choice. If we go for western fighter, the only good option is Rafale although it's expensive. American jets and Gripens are susceptible to American mood swing, you pretty much handover your balls to the Americans for them to squeeze whenever they feel like.
> 
> BD should go for two jets, J-10 in high numbers, Rafale in lower numbers. Russian platforms should be dumped entirely. Only good thing from Russia that can be acquired are small arms, ATGMs, transport helicopters.


Every platform has its limitation. 
Eurofighter is a complex design and were meant for air superiority.. I dont think we need ground attack role for this fighter to begin with.. This will be a killing machine for any Burmese fighters venturing our borders.


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## Bengal71

TopCat said:


> Every platform has its limitation.
> Eurofighter is a complex design and were meant for air superiority.. I dont think we need ground attack role for this fighter to begin with.. This will be a killing machine for any Burmese fighters venturing our borders.



It's maintenance cost is a nightmare as far as I read. Besides you need to have ground attack capability too. Rafale can do both the jobs, so can F-16s but they are sanction prone.


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## Michael Corleone

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Seems like Something Bangladesh would do, probably affordable as well


there aren't any spares... nada ... it's all attrition and bust



Bengal71 said:


> Typhoons are not a good choice.


explain why?



Bengal71 said:


> BD should go for two jets, J-10 in high numbers, Rafale in lower numbers.


i am not even going to debate this


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## Rahil Ahmed

I think the most important thing for Bangladesh to do now is to actually pick sides, they can not state in this state of diplomatic limbo forever, if they decide to continue like this they will risk completely isolating themselves from everyone

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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> I think the most important thing for Bangladesh to do now is to actually pick sides, they can not state in this state of diplomatic limbo forever, if they decide to continue like this they will risk completely isolating themselves from everyone



In a way this is correct.

All countries are gonna have to do this in one way or another.

Most importantly Bangladesh has to protect its interests and defend against hostility by Myanmar whether overt military, economic or diplomatic.

Having said this, if China fully backs Myanmar, perhaps Bangladesh should engage the US and the West in arms sales.

Of course China is also important to Bangladesh and as a result Chinese sensitivities have to be taken into account.

But if hostilities ever break out between Myanmar and Bangladesh, Bangladesh better choose the side it sees as giving more help.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> In a way this is correct.
> 
> All countries are gonna have to do this in one way or another.
> 
> Most importantly Bangladesh has to protect its interests and defend against hostility by Myanmar whether overt military, economic or diplomatic.
> 
> Having said this, if China fully backs Myanmar, perhaps Bangladesh should engage the US and the West in arms sales.
> 
> Of course China is also important to Bangladesh and as a result Chinese sensitivities have to be taken into account.
> 
> But if hostilities ever break out between Myanmar and Bangladesh, Bangladesh better choose the side it sees as giving more help.


It has to be done before Hostilities break out because there is no Guarantee that someone will be willing to back us in such a Situation, which is why we need to be prepared beforehand. I think now is the Ideal time to make the move as many seem to be engaged in the current situation and we need to use it to our advantage. I personally think that it would be a mistake for Bangladesh to align themselves with the Superpowers (USA and China) as of right now, I think they really should focus on developing ties with Mid tier powers such as the UK, Indonesia, or Turkey, so that we would not be completely alone.


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## bd_4_ever

So guys, a quick insight. I met up with my relative who is in the Army. Asked him a few things while and he shared the following without much details:-

a) BD Army will be getting GMLRS. He has first hand knowledge of this and he said that the country of preference is Turkey. When I asked why not Chinese, he said they weren't happy with the previous MLRS they received from China. Needs lot of maintenance and has issues and overall, Turkish quality is better. 

b) He said that a LOT of things have been purchased for the BAF. He wasnt willing to say much and diverted away saying that a BAF officer would know better but I did remember him saying "onek kichu kena hoye gese. Jokhon PM commission korbe, tokhon paper e ashbe". He didnt say the country of purchase or the timeline. When I insisted on if its coming within this year, he says "hote pare".

c) We purchased Turkish APCs recently and deployed them in UN mission, especially after the Mali incident when 8 of our soldiers lost their lives. 

d) Talking about the Rohingya fiasco, he said that the Army was fully prepared for a conflict with Myanmar. Army assumed that it was inevitable. Many high ranking officials and troops had been mobilized to Ramu. It was all set but the govt. wanted to dialogue and not get into a fight initially as it would obscure the Rohingya plight in the Intl. arena.

e) Upon asking him about our army strength, he said "eito dhoro 3-4 lakhs", without giving any other concrete details.

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

bd_4_ever said:


> So guys, a quick insight. I met up with my relative who is in the Army. Asked him a few things while and he shared the following without much details:-
> 
> a) BD Army will be getting GMLRS. He has first hand knowledge of this and he said that the country of preference is Turkey. When I asked why not Chinese, he said they weren't happy with the previous MLRS they received from China. Needs lot of maintenance and has issues and overall, Turkish quality is better.
> 
> b) He said that a LOT of things have been purchased for the BAF. He wasnt willing to say much and diverted away saying that a BAF officer would know better but I did remember him saying "onek kichu kena hoye gese. Jokhon PM commission korbe, tokhon paper e ashbe". He didnt say the country of purchase or the timeline. When I insisted on if its coming within this year, he says "hote pare".
> 
> c) We purchased Turkish APCs recently and deployed them in UN mission, especially after the Mali incident when 8 of our soldiers lost their lives.
> 
> d) Talking about the Rohingya fiasco, he said that the Army was fully prepared for a conflict with Myanmar. Army assumed that it was inevitable. Many high ranking officials and troops had been mobilized to Ramu. It was all set but the govt. wanted to dialogue and not get into a fight initially as it would obscure the Rohingya plight in the Intl. arena.
> 
> e) Upon asking him about our army strength, he said "eito dhoro 3-4 lakhs", without giving any other concrete details.


মনে শান্তি পেলাম ভাই। এতটাও বেহাল অবস্থা না আমাদের...

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## ghost250

bd_4_ever said:


> So guys, a quick insight. I met up with my relative who is in the Army. Asked him a few things while and he shared the following without much details:-
> 
> a) BD Army will be getting GMLRS. He has first hand knowledge of this and he said that the country of preference is Turkey. When I asked why not Chinese, he said they weren't happy with the previous MLRS they received from China. Needs lot of maintenance and has issues and overall, Turkish quality is better.
> 
> b) He said that a LOT of things have been purchased for the BAF. He wasnt willing to say much and diverted away saying that a BAF officer would know better but I did remember him saying "onek kichu kena hoye gese. Jokhon PM commission korbe, tokhon paper e ashbe". He didnt say the country of purchase or the timeline. When I insisted on if its coming within this year, he says "hote pare".
> 
> c) We purchased Turkish APCs recently and deployed them in UN mission, especially after the Mali incident when 8 of our soldiers lost their lives.
> 
> d) Talking about the Rohingya fiasco, he said that the Army was fully prepared for a conflict with Myanmar. Army assumed that it was inevitable. Many high ranking officials and troops had been mobilized to Ramu. It was all set but the govt. wanted to dialogue and not get into a fight initially as it would obscure the Rohingya plight in the Intl. arena.
> 
> e) Upon asking him about our army strength, he said "eito dhoro 3-4 lakhs", without giving any other concrete details.


so,for army kasirga(type-B) is confirmed....nd army also confirmed it at defence hardware show...nd BAF er lot of things bolte MRSAM,ucav,c-130 eigula bujhiyechhn mone hoy


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## Rahil Ahmed

bd_4_ever said:


> So guys, a quick insight. I met up with my relative who is in the Army. Asked him a few things while and he shared the following without much details:-
> 
> a) BD Army will be getting GMLRS. He has first hand knowledge of this and he said that the country of preference is Turkey. When I asked why not Chinese, he said they weren't happy with the previous MLRS they received from China. Needs lot of maintenance and has issues and overall, Turkish quality is better.
> 
> b) He said that a LOT of things have been purchased for the BAF. He wasnt willing to say much and diverted away saying that a BAF officer would know better but I did remember him saying "onek kichu kena hoye gese. Jokhon PM commission korbe, tokhon paper e ashbe". He didnt say the country of purchase or the timeline. When I insisted on if its coming within this year, he says "hote pare".
> 
> c) We purchased Turkish APCs recently and deployed them in UN mission, especially after the Mali incident when 8 of our soldiers lost their lives.
> 
> d) Talking about the Rohingya fiasco, he said that the Army was fully prepared for a conflict with Myanmar. Army assumed that it was inevitable. Many high ranking officials and troops had been mobilized to Ramu. It was all set but the govt. wanted to dialogue and not get into a fight initially as it would obscure the Rohingya plight in the Intl. arena.
> 
> e) Upon asking him about our army strength, he said "eito dhoro 3-4 lakhs", without giving any other concrete details.


Are we sure this is credible? I mean I guess we'll have to wait until its official to see if its true


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Are we sure this is credible? I mean I guess we'll have to wait until its official to see if its true



I believe him.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> I believe him.


Im not sure Bangladesh seems to be a bit to docile, If it were true wouldn't they at least try to be a bit more aggressive?


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Im not sure Bangladesh seems to be a bit to docile, If it were true wouldn't they at least try to be a bit more aggressive?



I think BD is gonna buy more stuff eventually.

Give them a chance.

I also get frustrated sometimes with the lack of apparent action.

But all we can do is wait.


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1145848618925380

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## bd_4_ever

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> মনে শান্তি পেলাম ভাই। এতটাও বেহাল অবস্থা না আমাদের...





Rahil Ahmed said:


> Are we sure this is credible? I mean I guess we'll have to wait until its official to see if its true





Avicenna said:


> I think BD is gonna buy more stuff eventually.
> 
> Give them a chance.
> 
> I also get frustrated sometimes with the lack of apparent action.
> 
> But all we can do is wait.





shourov323 said:


> so,for army kasirga(type-B) is confirmed....nd army also confirmed it at defence hardware show...nd BAF er lot of things bolte MRSAM,ucav,c-130 eigula bujhiyechhn mone hoy



The news is reliable. Point is, you will only get so much out from an active member of the BD military, given how tight lipped they are. These things will never come in the media unless and until instructed from the top brass in the military.

Another thing is while talking about the Rohingya incident, he causally mentioned that our navy is light years ahead of our eastern neighbour. There is absolutely no comparison. He mentioned that the development curve our navy saw in last 10 years in unprecedented. 

Talking about being aggressive, we need to define was 'aggressive' is. Is it in the sense that BD picks a fight? Or in the sense of massive military build-up? We have to remember that, regardless of the Rohingya fiasco, our foreign policy has always been staying calm and collected and not pick a fight unless all channels have been exhausted. I doubt this will change even with the Rohingya incident. At the end of the day, Myanmar didnt fire a bullet at BD and thus BD has no reason to hit back militarily. Many people dont like this fact and want to go into a conflict cuz its 'cool' or means 'showing your balls', but that's not how it works. 

Toys are coming, that are sure. Knowing BD and how slow everything is there, this is normal. We are not in a state of war, so we can take our own sweet time. Plus these purchases depend a lot on the govt. mood and how and when they want to commission it. So blaming Military brass always doesnt work either. I get frustrated too sometimes, mainly on BAF but that's about it. End of the day, we gotta wait.

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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> ) He said that a LOT of things have been purchased for the BAF. He wasnt willing to say much and diverted away saying that a BAF officer would know better but I did remember him saying "onek kichu kena hoye gese. Jokhon PM commission korbe, tokhon paper e ashbe". He didnt say the country of purchase or the timeline. When I insisted on if its coming within this year, he says "hote pare".


he probably meant those UAV and the c130s not the fighter jets... because that would have definitely been known by the international media


The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1145848618925380


can't wait to see one of these in the aircraft museum

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## Buddhistforlife

bd_4_ever said:


> The news is reliable. Point is, you will only get so much out from an active member of the BD military, given how tight lipped they are. These things will never come in the media unless and until instructed from the top brass in the military.
> 
> Another thing is while talking about the Rohingya incident, he causally mentioned that our navy is light years ahead of our eastern neighbour. There is absolutely no comparison. He mentioned that the development curve our navy saw in last 10 years in unprecedented.
> 
> Talking about being aggressive, we need to define was 'aggressive' is. Is it in the sense that BD picks a fight? Or in the sense of massive military build-up? We have to remember that, regardless of the Rohingya fiasco, our foreign policy has always been staying calm and collected and not pick a fight unless all channels have been exhausted. I doubt this will change even with the Rohingya incident. At the end of the day, Myanmar didnt fire a bullet at BD and thus BD has no reason to hit back militarily. Many people dont like this fact and want to go into a conflict cuz its 'cool' or means 'showing your balls', but that's not how it works.
> 
> Toys are coming, that are sure. Knowing BD and how slow everything is there, this is normal. We are not in a state of war, so we can take our own sweet time. Plus these purchases depend a lot on the govt. mood and how and when they want to commission it. So blaming Military brass always doesnt work either. I get frustrated too sometimes, mainly on BAF but that's about it. End of the day, we gotta wait.


Listen, Bangladesh and Myanmar should stop the arms race and focus more on developing other sectors like education, infrastructure and economy. Army, military gadgets, nuclear weapons is bullshit. Look at Malaysia, they don't have a powerful military but still they are well developed with a powerful economy and better education system. On the other hand Pakistan and North Korea are nuclear armed states, have a powerful army but they are economically backward, have a poor education system, have poor medical facilities and are not technologically advanced. 

Common people of Bangladesh and Myanmar will not benefit if Bangladesh or Myanmar develops their military arsenal.

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## bd_4_ever

Buddhistforlife said:


> Listen, Bangladesh and Myanmar should stop the arms race and focus more on developing other sectors like education, infrastructure and economy. Army, military gadgets, nuclear weapons is bullshit. Look at Malaysia, they don't have a powerful military but still they are well developed with a powerful economy and better education system. On the other hand Pakistan and North Korea are nuclear armed states, have a powerful army but they are economically backward, have a poor education system, have poor medical facilities and are not technologically advanced.
> 
> Common people of Bangladesh and Myanmar will not benefit if Bangladesh or Myanmar develops their military arsenal.



I know. My post was not related to arms race rather just an insight from an insider I know. This is not a personal opinion.
Conflict during this development phase of ours is not the solution and that's why I back up the govt.'s decision to use dialogue and not get into a fight. It has kept our growth trajectory smooth and that's important to me. We dont have intentions to be a military state but rather have solid defence to foil any mis-adventures.


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## Buddhistforlife

bd_4_ever said:


> I know. My post was not related to arms race rather just an insight from an insider I know. This is not a personal opinion.
> Conflict during this development phase of ours is not the solution and that's why I back up the govt.'s decision to use dialogue and not get into a fight. It has kept our growth trajectory smooth and that's important to me. We dont have intentions to be a military state but rather have solid defence to foil any mis-adventures.


No country should be ruled by the military. Military rule is harmful for a country. I know the army is patriotic but the army is okay in the battlefield and not in the parliament or in the chair of the ruler. 

History proved that any country which comes under the control of the military suffers social unrest, economic downturn, spreading of extremism and xenophobia etc. Pakistan, Myanmar, North Korea are examples of how dictatorship and military rule can destroy a nation.

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## UKBengali

Buddhistforlife said:


> Listen, Bangladesh and Myanmar should stop the arms race and focus more on developing other sectors like education, infrastructure and economy. Army, military gadgets, nuclear weapons is bullshit. Look at Malaysia, they don't have a powerful military but still they are well developed with a powerful economy and better education system. On the other hand Pakistan and North Korea are nuclear armed states, have a powerful army but they are economically backward, have a poor education system, have poor medical facilities and are not technologically advanced.
> 
> Common people of Bangladesh and Myanmar will not benefit if Bangladesh or Myanmar develops their military arsenal.




Dude, BD does not seen Myanmar as a peer as it's economy will soon become 5 times the size of yours.

Just think how much more powerful the BA and BN are over your equivalent - once BAF gets modernised you will be a cakewalk for BD.

Now let us get back to the topic of BAF.


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## Buddhistforlife

UKBengali said:


> Dude, BD does not seen Myanmar as a peer as it's economy will soon become 5 times the size of yours.
> 
> Just think how much more powerful the BA and BN are over your equivalent - once BAF gets modernised you will be a cakewalk for BD.
> 
> Now let us get back to the topic of BAF.


I expect you to correct your behaviour.I didn't provoke you so stop abusing. Either you stop abusing or I will report your account.


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## UKBengali

Buddhistforlife said:


> I expect you to correct your behaviour.I didn't provoke you so stop abusing. Either you stop abusing or I will report your account.



Report away dude and you are diverting topic of course.


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## Buddhistforlife

UKBengali said:


> Report away dude and you are diverting topic of course.


Where did I divert? This was a friendly chat between me and Bd_4_ever and suddenly you came outta nowhere and started saying Bangladesh did this, Myanmar did that.


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## mb444

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Perhaps it could be for their old tornados? I'm pretty sure most were going to be retired this year right?



Old tornados no....tempest not production ready or rather production has not began. RN aircraft carriers are without jets.... typhoons wont be decommissioned for a while until tempest begins induction and the US jets starts to come.... i think 2021...



Rahil Ahmed said:


> I think the most important thing for Bangladesh to do now is to actually pick sides, they can not state in this state of diplomatic limbo forever, if they decide to continue like this they will risk completely isolating themselves from everyone


BD will choose the west always....because they are our primary trading partners...


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## The Ronin



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## Arthur

ছেঁড়া কাথায় শুয়ে রাফাল স্বপ্ন না দেখাই ভালো। 
কেনার বেলায় ফ্রেঞ্চরা পকেট কেটে গাছতলা দেখাই দিবে! আর যুদ্ধ টুদ্ধ বাধলে রিসাপ্লাই পাওয়ার কথা ভুলে যান। ফ্রেঞ্চরা ভারতকে ছেড়ে বাংলাদেশকে জিন্দেগিতেও কোন স্পেয়ার, আর্মামেন্ট বিক্রি করবেনা।

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## Bengal71

Khan saheb said:


> ছেঁড়া কাথায় শুয়ে রাফাল স্বপ্ন না দেখাই ভালো।
> কেনার বেলায় ফ্রেঞ্চরা পকেট কেটে গাছতলা দেখাই দিবে! আর যুদ্ধ টুদ্ধ বাধলে রিসাপ্লাই পাওয়ার কথা ভুলে যান। ফ্রেঞ্চরা ভারতকে ছেড়ে বাংলাদেশকে জিন্দেগিতেও কোন স্পেয়ার, আর্মামেন্ট বিক্রি করবেনা।



রাফাল ভারতের জন্য না, বার্মার জন্য। ভারতের জন্য J-10।


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## Arthur

Bengal71 said:


> রাফাল ভারতের জন্য না, বার্মার জন্য। ভারতের জন্য J-10।


ভাই ওয়ারফেয়ার এতো সিম্পল না। আপনি যেই অস্ত্র যার কাছ থেকেই কেনেন না কেনো, এটা সব শত্রুর বিরুদ্ধেই ব্যবহার হবে। যেটা আপনি ১০০ ভাগ ব্যবহার করতে পারবেন না সেটা কিনবেন কেনো? 

আর বিলিয়ন বিলিয়ন ডলার জাস্ট একটা দেশকে কাউন্টার করতে খরচ করার কোন যুক্তি নাই। মায়ানমারও এমন কোন রাবণের লঙ্কা নয় যে রাফাল লাগবে ওদের কাউন্টার করতে। BAF বর্তমান শক্তি ওদের শায়েস্তা করতে যথেষ্ট।

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## Bengal71

Khan saheb said:


> ভাই ওয়ারফেয়ার এতো সিম্পল না। আপনি যেই অস্ত্র যার কাছ থেকেই কেনেন না কেনো, এটা সব শত্রুর বিরুদ্ধেই ব্যবহার হবে। যেটা আপনি ১০০ ভাগ ব্যবহার করতে পারবেন না সেটা কিনবেন কেনো?
> 
> আর বিলিয়ন বিলিয়ন ডলার জাস্ট একটা দেশকে কাউন্টার করতে খরচ করার কোন যুক্তি নাই। মায়ানমারও এমন কোন রাবণের লঙ্কা নয় যে রাফাল লাগবে ওদের কাউন্টার করতে। BAF বর্তমান শক্তি ওদের শায়েস্তা করতে যথেষ্ট।



এমন কোনো জেট মার্কেট এ নাই যেটা আমাদের সব শত্রুর বিরুদ্ধে ১০০% ব্যবহার করা যাবে।


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## Arthur

Bengal71 said:


> এমন কোনো জেট মার্কেট এ নাই যেটা আমাদের সব শত্রুর বিরুদ্ধে ১০০% ব্যবহার করা যাবে।


আছে ভাই, আছে। রাশিয়ান মাল কিনলে আপনি পারবেন। চায়না মাল কিনলেও পারবেন। যে জিনিস ব্যবহার করতে পারবে না সেটা কেও কেনো কিনতে যাবে? যারা অস্ত্র বিক্রি করে তারাও এইটা বোঝে। এইজে ধরেন আমেরিকা এফ ১৬ বেচলো পাকিদের কাছে, ওরা তো ঠিকই ব্যবহার করলো ভারতের বিরুদ্ধে। ক্রেতা ব্যবহার করলে তা আটকানোর উপায় বিক্রেতার কাছে আসলে নাই।

সবই কূটনীতি আর রাজনীতির বিষয়। রাশিয়া বা ব্রিটেনের যে সিচুয়েশন তাতে ওরা অস্ত্র বিক্রি করতে পারলেই খুশি। ফ্রান্স বা জার্মানি বা চীনের কিন্তু অত গরজ নাই।

বাফ কিন্তু আজকে প্রায় তেরো -চৌদ্দ বছর ধররে j10 কেনার চেষ্টা করতেছে। ২০০৫-২০০৬ সাল থেকেই। কিন্তু চীন বিক্রি করতে রাজি না বলেই, শেষে বাধ্য হয়েই এফ ৭ কেনা হইসে। তাই কিছু ব্যাপার হিসাব না করলেই না।


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## Bengal71

Khan saheb said:


> আছে ভাই, আছে। রাশিয়ান মাল কিনলে আপনি পারবেন। চায়না মাল কিনলেও পারবেন। যে জিনিস ব্যবহার করতে পারবে না সেটা কেও কেনো কিনতে যাবে? যারা অস্ত্র বিক্রি করে তারাও এইটা বোঝে। এইজে ধরেন আমেরিকা এফ ১৬ বেচলো পাকিদের কাছে, ওরা তো ঠিকই ব্যবহার করলো ভারতের বিরুদ্ধে। ক্রেতা ব্যবহার করলে তা আটকানোর উপায় বিক্রেতার কাছে আসলে নাই।
> 
> সবই কূটনীতি আর রাজনীতির বিষয়। রাশিয়া বা ব্রিটেনের যে সিচুয়েশন তাতে ওরা অস্ত্র বিক্রি করতে পারলেই খুশি। ফ্রান্স বা জার্মানি বা চীনের কিন্তু অত গরজ নাই।
> 
> বাফ কিন্তু আজকে প্রায় তেরো -চৌদ্দ বছর ধররে j10 কেনার চেষ্টা করতেছে। ২০০৫-২০০৬ সাল থেকেই। কিন্তু চীন বিক্রি করতে রাজি না বলেই, শেষে বাধ্য হয়েই এফ ৭ কেনা হইসে। তাই কিছু ব্যাপার হিসাব না করলেই না।



বার্মার বিরুদ্ধে রাশিয়ান মাল ব্যবহার করা যাবে না. রাশিয়ানরা চীনাদের কথার এক পা বাইরে যাবে না. বার্মার সাথে যুদ্ধ লাগলে রাশিয়ান মালের স্পেযার পার্ট পাওয়া যাবে না. চীন মাল ভারতীয়দের বিরুদ্ধে ফ্রি স্টাইলে ব্যবহার করা যাবে, চীনারা খুশি মনে সব সাপ্লাই দিবে.


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## Michael Corleone

see from what i see happening... nothing is written on hard stone. but j-10/ mig 35 has possibility of showing up in BAF while EFT/su 35 i don't think so
and if those incompetent fucks in the govt again plans to buy 8 then this airforce can sod off to destination fu**ed for good


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> see from what i see happening... nothing is written on hard stone. but j-10/ mig 35 has possibility of showing up in BAF while EFT/su 35 i don't think so
> and if those incompetent fucks in the govt again plans to buy 8 then this airforce can sod off to destination fu**ed for good



Mig-35/SU-35 is no go due to US sanctions on Russia.
J-10 is available but not sure if BD/BAF are intelligent enough to get that.
Typhoon is available and UK would sell it but BD may not want the pay the 3 billion US dollars just for 12 planes and the infrastructure around them.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Mig-35/SU-35 is no go due to US sanctions on Russia.
> J-10 is available but not sure if BD/BAF are intelligent enough to get that.
> Typhoon is available and UK would sell it but BD may not want the pay the 3 billion US dollars just for 12 planes and the infrastructure around them.


yeah j10 seems to me is what we end up getting...


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> yeah j10 seems to me is what we end up getting...



If the J-10 comes with AESA and PL-15 BVRAAM then it will be a very good fighter for BAF.


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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> Mig-35/SU-35 is no go due to US sanctions on Russia.
> J-10 is available but not sure if BD/BAF are intelligent enough to get that.


J 10 is not available. If it was that available like we think we would have got them by now. Forget AESA, PL15 etcetra. China gains nothing by upsetting India nor it has any interest in upsetting the statas quo vis a vis the bamars. 



UKBengali said:


> Typhoon is available and UK would sell it but BD may not want the pay the 3 billion US dollars just for 12 planes and the infrastructure around them.


Well if Russian option is truly blocked I don't think we have any other option in the twin engine strike segment. And buying the same platform as the Bamars & Indians are redandant in my opinion.


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## Rahil Ahmed

UKBengali said:


> If the J-10 comes with AESA and PL-15 BVRAAM then it will be a very good fighter for BAF.


How many of them could they buy?


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## UKBengali

Khan saheb said:


> J 10 is not available. If it was that available like we think we would have got them by now.



Nope. BAF has been solely focused on Russian planes till US sanctions came in.
Typhoon is a little better than J-10 but massively more expensive. BAF can buy either subject to how much government gives them.



Rahil Ahmed said:


> How many of them could they buy?



Lots as they are relatively cheap to buy and operate. The training, bombs and missiles
would be cheaper than Western fighters.
My estimate is that BD can buy 40 over the next 5 years.


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## Michael Corleone

Khan saheb said:


> J 10 is not available. If it was that available like we think we would have got them by now. Forget AESA, PL15 etcetra. China gains nothing by upsetting India nor it has any interest in upsetting the statas quo vis a vis the bamars.


nah it is and the plan was get russian and chinese until russian's introduced the clause.... for now though... it seems like we are nowhere


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## Avicenna

Guys exclusive pic of new BAF fighter.

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## mb444

Khan saheb said:


> J 10 is not available. If it was that available like we think we would have got them by now. Forget AESA, PL15 etcetra. China gains nothing by upsetting India nor it has any interest in upsetting the statas quo vis a vis the bamars.
> 
> 
> Well of Russian option is truly blocked I don't think we have any other option in the twin engine strike segment.




BD needs to be realistic..... in our conflicts china and russia seems fairly unreliable partner.... if so pivot westward as far as BAF is considered

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

I always credit western countries for Bangladeshs current prosperity and we try to emulate them! So, in my pov our security establishments should be pro west too.

Our prosperity relies with western democratic countries. No one can replace them...

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## Arthur

mb444 said:


> BD needs to be realistic..... in our conflicts china and russia seems fairly unreliable partner.... if so pivot westward as far as BAF is considered


Exactly. China & Russia can't be relied upon anymore. Lots has changed since 17. Ignoring this new reality will be our hemlock. 

Businesse? -Yes 
Strategic Reliance -HELL NO.



Avicenna said:


> Guys exclusive pic of new BAF fighter.
> 
> View attachment 559404


Simply.. magnificent!!!

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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> Nope. BAF has been solely focused on Russian planes till US sanctions came in.
> Typhoon is a little better than J-10 but massively more expensive. BAF can buy either subject to how much government gives them.
> 
> 
> 
> Lots as they are relatively cheap to buy and operate. The training, bombs and missiles
> would be cheaper than Western fighters.
> My estimate is that BD can buy 40 over the next 5 years.



I find it hard to believe that J-10 is not available for BAF.


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## mb444

Bengal71 said:


> I find it hard to believe that J-10 is not available for BAF.



I think it is available but post rohingya debacle we need to consider chinas reliability as a military partner.

What good is it if we can not use it in time of war.

In some ways BAFs ineptitude may have been a blessing in disguise.

There is no good option for BAF. All things considered western option is the only viable one.

BD needs to get its checkbook out and go western. There will be strings attached.... but against the simian conglomerate we can not be buying critical military asset from someone who is firmly in the enemies camp.

BD will not throw a hissy fit but I am expecting BD to diversify away from china.

The moral of the story is to develop own capacity, we have no allies and we are in a very volatile neighbourhood.

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## Bengal71

mb444 said:


> I think it is available but post rohingya debacle we need to consider chinas reliability as a military partner.
> 
> What good is it if we can not use it in time of war.
> 
> In some ways BAFs ineptitude may have been a blessing in disguise.
> 
> There is no good option for BAF. All things considered western option is the only viable one.
> 
> BD needs to get its checkbook out and go western. There will be strings attached.... but against the simian conglomerate we can not be buying critical military asset from someone who is firmly in the enemies camp.
> 
> BD will not throw a hissy fit but I am expecting BD to diversify away from china.
> 
> The moral of the story is to develop own capacity, we have no allies and we are in a very volatile neighbourhood.



I don't think everything is finished with China after the Rohingya debacle, politics and international relations are not a zero sum game.

If I were the PM, below would be my plan:

1. Get J-10 in high numbers from China with limited spare part manufacturing capability.
2. Get relatively large stockpile of spares parts, spare engines and ordnance.
3. Get it written in the contracts that BAF reserves the full right to integrate any bombs and/or missiles etc with the jets. Buy Chinese ordnance but also get missiles bombs etc from other sources like Turkey, Brazil, South Africa etc.
4. Buy a Western platform that has the least likelihood of sanctions. At this current stage the only westerns platform that will work is Rafale from France. Gripen with their US engines and other subsystems are sanction prone, any American jet is sanction prone, Typhoon is too costly maintenance wise and made by multiple countries which is problematic.
5. Buy absolutely nothing for the Air Force from Russia. Their weapons are shit and they will not go one step against Chinese dictate in this region, besides they have a far greater monetary interest in India.


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## mb444

Bengal71 said:


> I don't think everything is fished after the Rohingya debacle, politics and international relations is not a zero sum game.
> 
> If I were the PM, below would be my plan:
> 
> 1. Get J-10 in high numbers from China with limited spare part manufacturing capability.
> 2. Get relatively large stockpile of spares parts, spare engines and ordnance.
> 3. Get it written in the contracts that BAF reserves the full right to integrate any bombs and/or missiles etc with the jets. Buy Chinese ordnance but also get missiles bombs etc for other sources like Turkey, Brazil, South Africa etc.
> 4. Buy a Western platform that has the least likelihood of sanctions. At this current stage the only westerns platform that will work is Rafale from France. Gripen with their US engines and other subsystems are sanction prone, any American jet is sanction prone, Typhoon is too costly maintenance wise and made by multiple countries which is problematic.
> 5. Buy absolutely nothing for the Air Force from Russia. Their weapons are shit and they with go one step against Chinese dictate in this region, besides they have a far greater monetary interest in India.



Your assessment is a food for thought. 

BAF is in dire position and currently not fit for purpose.

The other option.... let BAF be for a little while .. build up internal capacity and deploy and stockpile a massive missile force like the iranians.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Bengal71 said:


> I don't think everything is finished with China after the Rohingya debacle, politics and international relations are not a zero sum game.
> 
> If I were the PM, below would be my plan:
> 
> 1. Get J-10 in high numbers from China with limited spare part manufacturing capability.
> 2. Get relatively large stockpile of spares parts, spare engines and ordnance.
> 3. Get it written in the contracts that BAF reserves the full right to integrate any bombs and/or missiles etc with the jets. Buy Chinese ordnance but also get missiles bombs etc for other sources like Turkey, Brazil, South Africa etc.
> 4. Buy a Western platform that has the least likelihood of sanctions. At this current stage the only westerns platform that will work is Rafale from France. Gripen with their US engines and other subsystems are sanction prone, any American jet is sanction prone, Typhoon is too costly maintenance wise and made by multiple countries which is problematic.
> 5. Buy absolutely nothing for the Air Force from Russia. Their weapons are shit and they with go one step against Chinese dictate in this region, besides they have a far greater monetary interest in India.


I honestly like the Russian option, If Russian planes have been enough to keep the west in check for half a century, I think its worth considering, if things don't work out we can always have the J-10's as a plan B


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## Avicenna

Take the checkbook out and go Western.

Thinking long term, Myanmar is the main antagonist.

India is a remote and almost completely a theoretical one.

China and Russia are for whatever reason firmly in Myanmar's camp.

With this in mind, I would want the BAF to buy a western platform.

If BD wants to hedge then buy both Western and Chinese.

Russian options are nearly fully matured at this point and quite frankly done poorly in combat.

Also, as a side note, I think at the very least a J-10A export version is available to BD.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Take the checkbook out and go Western.
> 
> Thinking long term, Myanmar is the main antagonist.
> 
> India is a remote and almost completely a theoretical one.
> 
> China and Russia are for whatever reason firmly in Myanmar's camp.
> 
> With this in mind, I would want the BAF to buy a western platform.
> 
> If BD wants to hedge then buy both Western and Chinese.
> 
> Russian options are nearly fully matured at this point and quite frankly done poorly in combat.
> 
> Also, as a side note, I think at the very least a J-10A export version is available to BD.



J-10A is available with air-cooled AESA.
China will definitely sell that to BD.


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> J-10A is available with air-cooled AESA.
> China will definitely sell that to BD.


The production of J-10A and J-10B has stopped for a long time.

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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> The production of J-10A and J-10B has stopped for a long time.



Refurbished J-10As with air-cooled AESA, upgraded electronics, SD-10A/B would be available for BD at the least. I do not know if China would sell J-10C with PL-15 though.


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> Refurbished J-10As with air-cooled AESA, upgraded electronics, SD-10A/B would be available for BD at the least. I do not know if China would sell J-10C with PL-15 though.


If China exports J-10, it will be J-10CE for sure.

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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> If China exports J-10, it will be J-10CE for sure.



In your opinion, will China sell J-10C to BD with PL-15, as long as BAF puts in a sizeable order like 40 planes? 
Of course it may not be exactly the same as what China operates.


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## Pakistani Fighter

mb444 said:


> BD needs to be realistic..... in our conflicts china and russia seems fairly unreliable partner.... if so pivot westward as far as BAF is considered


You can have Pakistan as a reliable partner


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> In your opinion, will China sell J-10C to BD with PL-15, as long as BAF puts in a sizeable order like 40 planes?
> Of course it may not be exactly the same as what China operates.


IMO, while India has bought Rafale, and China focuses on 5th-generation fighters, J-10C and PL-15 for export to BD are possible.

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## Bengal71

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> You can have Pakistan as a reliable partner



Firstly you don't have a plane of your own to offer, JF-17 is Chinese plane.

Secondly, if a war breaks out with Burma, Chinese will take the side of Burmese and you too will take the side of China. So I don't think Pakistan will be a reliable partner for us.



UKBengali said:


> In your opinion, will China sell J-10C to BD with PL-15, as long as BAF puts in a sizeable order like 40 planes?
> Of course it may not be exactly the same as what China operates.



J-10c will be sold to us if we want to buy, don't you worry about that. China is not the US, they will sell as long as we can pay.


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## LKJ86

Bengal71 said:


> Secondly, if a war breaks out with Burma, Chinese will take the side of Burmese and you too will take the side of China. So I don't think Pakistan will be a reliable partner for us.


During the Iran-Iraq war, China sold a large number of weapons to Iran and Iraq at the same time.


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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> Firstly you don't have a plane of your own to offer, JF-17 is Chinese plane.
> 
> Secondly, if a war breaks out with Burma, Chinese will take the side of Burmese and you too will take the side of China. So I don't think Pakistan will be a reliable partner for us.




Well said.

Pakistanis think that the Jf-17 is their plane when they are China's junior partner in the project, and they are so scared of China they do not criticise them over the oppression of Muslims in china.


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## Bengal71

LKJ86 said:


> During the Iran-Iraq war, China sold a large number of weapons to Iran and Iraq at the same time.



You did not have direct interest in Iran or Iraq. In our case, you have direct interest in Burma, that country is another North Korea in the making.

But that's not a problem, we can still buy J-10 and just not count on it for Burma. For them we should get European jet.

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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> You did not have direct interest in Iran or Iraq. In our case, you have direct interest in Burma, that country is another North Korea in the making.
> 
> But that's not a problem, we can still buy J-10 and just not count on it for Burma. For them we should get European jet.





Looks like J-10C(India) and Typhoon(Myanmar) is the way to go now.

US wants BD to buy US aircraft and so BD has no option but to buy maybe refurbished F-16s as it will not likely give Gripen E clearance to BD now.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> Looks like J-10C(India) and Typhoon(Myanmar) is the way to go now.
> 
> US wants BD to buy US aircraft and so BD has no option but to buy maybe refurbished F-16s as it will not likely give Gripen E clearance to BD now.



Typhoon is not good for us, it's operating costs are huge I hear. It's also an air superiority jet, not multi-role like rafale or gripen. I say we go for Rafale even if it costs an arm and leg. We can afford two squadrons with installment payment if there is a political will. 2 squadrons will destroy burmese AF 3 times over without any loss.


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## Windjammer

Bengal71 said:


> Firstly you don't have a plane of your own to offer, JF-17 is Chinese plane.
> 
> Secondly, if a war breaks out with Burma, Chinese will take the side of Burmese and you too will take the side of China. So I don't think Pakistan will be a reliable partner for us.


Are you a Maulvi Bazari or something, if JF-17 was just a Chinese plane, why would PAF/PAC flying, marketing and displaying is all over the world.


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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> Typhoon is not good for us, it's operating costs are huge I hear. It's also an air superiority jet, not multi-role like rafale or gripen. I say we go for Rafale even if it costs an arm and leg. We can afford two squadrons with installment payment if there is a political will. 2 squadrons will destroy burmese AF 3 times over without any loss.



Rafale is expensive to acquire and operate as well, although a little cheaper than Typhoon.

Typhoon is better option as BD has much better relations with UK and so can count on UK support - remember that the Typhoon is essentially a totally British jet with Germany, Italy and Spain being roped in for economic reasons.
UK would always support BD as long as it is not fighting India but Typhoon is for Myanmar. J-10CE can be brought to deal with India.

BAF would be buying the new Tranche 3A that is a true multi-role fighter and it can carry the UK Spear 3 anti-ship missile



Windjammer said:


> Are you a Maulvi Bazari or something, if JF-17 was just a Chinese plane, why would PAF/PAC flying, marketing and displaying is all over the world.




Look at it this way:

China can build JF-17 without Pakistani help, can Pakistan say the same?


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## Windjammer

UKBengali said:


> Look at it this way:
> 
> China can build JF-17 without Pakistani help, can Pakistan say the same?


We are not exactly discussing the capabilities of respective countries here rather a product that is result of a joint venture.

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## UKBengali

Windjammer said:


> We are not exactly discussing the capabilities of respective countries here rather a product that is result of a joint venture.




Yes we are.

JF-17 is not a Pakistani plane as long as you cannot make it yourself. The comment was in reference to Pakistan being able to supply Jf-17 to BD. China has to approve as well and so cannot sell to whom you want.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> Well said.
> 
> Pakistanis think that the Jf-17 is their plane when they are China's junior partner in the project, and they are so scared of China they do not criticise them over the oppression of Muslims in china.






Evidence for your claims? If true please post them here.

So when will bangladesh condemn indian atrocities against Kashmiris?

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## UKBengali

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Evidence for your claims? If true please post them here.
> 
> So when will bangladesh condemn indian atrocities against india?




Indian atrocities against India?


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> Yes we are.
> 
> JF-17 is not a Pakistani plane as long as you cannot make it yourself. The comment was in reference to Pakistan being able to supply Jf-17 to BD. China has to approve as well and so cannot sell to whom you want.





Apart from the Engines, we can make most of the components of JF-17 ourselves. Which is why we are now in a position to initiate and evaluate the 5th generation fighter program: Project AZM. Which Will mainly be a Pakistani venture. 

PS Can bangladesh produce fighter jets?



UKBengali said:


> Indian atrocities against India?




Typo. Indian atrocities against kashmiris

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## UKBengali

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Apart from the Engines, we can make most of the components of JF-17 ourselves. Which is why we are now in a position to initiate and evaluate the 5th generation fighter program: Project AZM. Which Will mainly be a Pakistani venture.
> 
> PS Can bangladesh produce fighter jets?



Radar, airframe, electronics and FBW are still Chinese.

Although I totally respect where Pakistan is and it is doing better than India as regards aerospace technology.

Project AZM - Good luck with that.




PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Typo. Indian atrocities against kashmiris




I condemn this totally and India needs to withdraw from Kashmir.

Most BD'shis do as well and wish BD government would do the same - this is the one unresolved conflict from partition and needs to be resolved with freedom for Kashmiris.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

UKBengali said:


> Radar, airframe, electronics and FBW are still Chinese.
> 
> Although I totally respect where Pakistan is and it is doing better than India as regards aerospace technology.
> 
> Project AZM - Good luck with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I condemn this totally and India needs to withdraw from Kashmir.
> 
> Most BD'shis do as well and wish BD government would do the same - this is the one unresolved conflict from partition and needs to be resolved with freedom for Kashmiris.







The radar, electronics, airframe and FBW capabilities are slowly being indigenized and co-produced by Pakistan. This will only increase as our scientific and technological capabilities are significantly expanding.

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## Windjammer

UKBengali said:


> Yes we are.
> 
> JF-17 is not a Pakistani plane as long as you cannot make it yourself. The comment was in reference to Pakistan being able to supply Jf-17 to BD. China has to approve as well and so cannot sell to whom you want.


It's a joint venture, Pakistan produces some 58% of the parts, each country is committed to meet it's required input.
Besides, BD already operates Chinese F-7, A-5 and the jointly produced K-8s, so why would there be any issues regarding the supply of say JF-17s.

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## UKBengali

Windjammer said:


> It's a joint venture, Pakistan produces some 58% of the parts, each country is committed to meet it's required input.
> Besides, BD already operates Chinese F-7, A-5 and the jointly produced K-8s, so why would there be any issues regarding the supply of say JF-17s.




OK, I did not mean to sound negative on Pakistani input.

Anyway good luck with indigenisation of JF-17 and with Project AZM.

JF -17 proved itself back in February against SU-30MKI - shows how good Pakistani input was in the plane.

My comment about JF-17 was more to do with not trusting China over Myanmar - as long as they build the radar and other electronics they can control it's effectiveness against Myanmar.

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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> OK, I did not mean to sound negative on Pakistani input.
> 
> Anyway good luck with indigenisation of JF-17 and with Project AZM.
> 
> JF -17 proved itself back in February against SU-30MKI - shows how good Pakistani input was in the plane.
> 
> My comment about JF-17 was more to do with not trusting China over Myanmar - as long as they build the radar and other electronics they can control it's effectiveness against Myanmar.



And in turn not trusting Pakistan in that regard.


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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> And in turn not trusting Pakistan in that regard.




I do not think if the JF-17 was a totally built by Pakistan, there would be any issues not trusting Pakistan.
China can ask but if Pakistan got to a level it could build the whole plane itself it would be in a position to reject any Chinese pressure.

Pakistan does not really have any reason to sell jets to BD and then backstab over Myanmar - it just would mean they would never sell anything to BD again and the trust of their equipment would be suspect and hamper additional sales in other countries.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> I do not think if the JF-17 was a totally built by Pakistan, there would be any issues not trusting Pakistan.
> China can ask but if Pakistan got to a level it could build the whole plane itself it would be in a position to reject any Chinese pressure.
> 
> Pakistan does not really have any reason to sell jets to BD and then backstab over Myanmar - it just would mean they would never sell anything to BD again and the trust of their equipment would be suspect and hamper additional sales in other countries.



Even if Pakistan made every component of the jet, they still can't be trusted against Burma. Burmese are Chinese bitch and Pakistan's relation with China....oh well

BTW, Pakistan can supply from it's own stockpile under the table but I doubt they will even do that. If we have money, we should get other jets. Better yet, just get an assembly plant of J-10, Chinese are businessmen, they won't say no if money is shown.


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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> Even if Pakistan made every component of the jet, they still can't be trusted against Burma. Burmese are Chinese bitch and Pakistan's relation with China....oh well
> 
> BTW, Pakistan can supply from it's own stockpile under the table but I doubt they will even do that. If we have money, we should get other jets. Better yet, just get an assembly plant of J-10, Chinese are businessmen, they won't say no if money is shown.




For JF-17 to be totally built by Pakistan(apart from engines) could take another 1-2 decades and so we are not talking about anything in the near future. This whole JF-17 sale to BD is moot in this case.

Yes, J-10CE seems the way to go and the Chinese have no reason not to sell it to BD. They want money just like everyone else and have the 5th generation J-20 already in service.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> For JF-17 to be totally built by Pakistan(apart from engines) could take another 1-2 decades and so we are not talking about anything in the near future. This whole JF-17 sale to BD is moot in this case.
> 
> Yes, J-10CE seems the way to go and the Chinese have no reason not to sell it to BD. They want money just like everyone else and have the 5th generation J-20 already in service.



Yes exactly, JF-17 is not even in question. I was just responding because a Pakistani member was saying we can take them as reliable supplier.



UKBengali said:


> OK, I did not mean to sound negative on Pakistani input.
> 
> Anyway good luck with indigenisation of JF-17 and with Project AZM.
> 
> JF -17 proved itself back in February against SU-30MKI - shows how good Pakistani input was in the plane.
> 
> My comment about JF-17 was more to do with not trusting China over Myanmar - as long as they build the radar and other electronics they can control it's effectiveness against Myanmar.



There is no evidence JF-17 shot down the MKI. More likely it was the F-16 but that's a different matter.

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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> There is no evidence JF-17 shot down the MKI. More likely it was the F-16 but that's a different matter.




True but JF-17s were sent against SU-30MKI and not a single one got shot down. At the least it held it's own which is more than anyone expected!


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> True but JF-17s were sent against SU-30MKI and not a single one got shot down. At the least it held it's own which is more than anyone expected!



We don't even know if they JF-17s were sent there, even if they were in what capacity. Anyway that's off topic.


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## mb444

You guys are not stating the obvious.... how is Pakistan going ro be a reliable partner for BD given the JF17 has been sold to the monkeys.

In any war situation this would be a liability as chinese pressure would ensure that pakistan takes the sides of the monkeys.

Pakistan establishment may want to side with us, its people may want to side with us but real politic will win the day.

BAF is super critical..... we need to spend the money.... there is no other option. I would go with rafale if feasible..... french unlikely to screw us over because that is not their business model.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> You guys are not stating the obvious.... how is Pakistan going ro be a reliable partner for BD given the JF17 has been sold to the monkeys.
> 
> In any war situation this would be a liability as chinese pressure would ensure that pakistan takes the sides of the monkeys.
> 
> Pakistan establishment may want to side with us, its people may want to side with us but real politic will win the day.
> 
> BAF is super critical..... we need to spend the money.... there is no other option. I would go with rafale if feasible..... french unlikely to screw us over because that is not their business model.



JF-17 is only a theoretical acquisition anyway as Pakistan has no hope of indigenising it without another 1-2 decades.

I would not be too sure about the Rafale as the French ONLY care about money as they did not sell JF-17 radar/electronics to Pakistan due to India baiting them with the 126 MMRCA contract.

If say BAF had a squadron(16) of Rafales and it came to war with Myanmar, would you trust the greedy French to not supply/assist BD if the savages daddy(China) offered a massive economic inducement of some kind or another?

At least the UK has some historical connection with BD and has always supported us since independence. Typhoon is now the best option as far as a Western fighter is concerned.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> JF-17 is only a theoretical acquisition anyway as Pakistan has no hope of indigenising it without another 1-2 decades.
> 
> I would not be too sure about the Rafale as the French ONLY care about money as they did not sell JF-17 radar/electronics to Pakistan due to India baiting them with the 126 MMRCA contract.
> 
> If say BAF had a squadron(16) of Rafales and it came to war with Myanmar, would you trust the greedy French to not supply/assist BD if the savages daddy(China) offered a massive economic inducement of some kind or another?
> 
> At least the UK has some historical connection with BD and has always supported us since independence. Typhoon is now the best option as far as a Western fighter is concerned.



I just don't buy that because of some historical connection UK will be good with us. UK has historical connection with all countries in the subcontinent. 

If the French won't play ball either then we may just have to drink the poison, F-16. Only uncle sam gives no fvck to nobody and does what he wants.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Bengal71 said:


> I just don't buy that because of some historical connection UK will be good with us. UK has historical connection with all countries in the subcontinent.
> 
> If the French won't play ball either then we may just have to drink the poison, F-16. Only uncle sam gives no fvck to nobody and does what he wants.


I second that, I don't really like any of the European or Chinese options, for me the way to go is just a ton of F-16's or Mig 35's


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## TopCat

Typhoon are fckibg lethal in air to air concat. We don't need much ground ATTAck like Japanese air force which is optimized for air to air combat. BD air force will never be a aggressor which need prolonged bombing campaign.

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> Typhoon are fckibg lethal in air to air concat. We don't need much ground ATTAck like Japanese air force which is optimized for air to air combat. BD air force will never be a aggressor which need prolonged bombing campaign.





Tranche 3 Typhoon has a lot of air to ground capability. UK is making a brand new anti-ship missile specifically for it.

It is also better than Rafale in air-to-air.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Tranche 3 Typhoon has a lot of air to ground capability. UK is making a brand new anti-ship missile specifically for it.
> 
> It is also better than Rafale in air-to-air.


If we buy rafael we will have good opportunity in turkish uk fighter program too.


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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> I just don't buy that because of some historical connection UK will be good with us. UK has historical connection with all countries in the subcontinent.
> 
> If the French won't play ball either then we may just have to drink the poison, F-16. Only uncle sam gives no fvck to nobody and does what he wants.




UK does not like Myanmar and so will support BD over it.

France simply cares about money.


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## mb444

In terms of total cost of ownership rafale and the typhoon are probably very similar.

Only reason i like the rafale is that it was designed to be multi-role.

UK is unlikely to screw BD over given its connection to BD which is simply not colonial. BD diaspora and continious people, business and economic relationship counts.

Anyhow all this is conjecture, only BAF knows what it wants and I worry that they are going to be making the wrong choice as they seem to have done in their entire history.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> In terms of total cost of ownership rafale and the typhoon are probably very similar.
> 
> Only reason i like the rafale is that it was designed to be multi-role.
> 
> UK is unlikely to screw BD over given its connection to BD which is simply not colonial. BD diaspora and continious people, business and economic relationship counts.
> 
> Anyhow all this is conjecture, only BAF knows what it wants and I worry that they are going to be making the wrong choice as they seem to have done in their entire history.




I agree on the whole but BAF used to be a very professional and well-led force.

During the 1st AL term of 1996-2001, it wanted 27 F-16s. The US refused saying that the aircraft was not suitable for BD - more than likely due to the fact that BD was very poor at the time.
After this indignity BD put in an order for 16 + 16 options of Mig-29. 8 Mig-29s were delivered to BD before AL lost power and the new BNP government cancelled the remaining 8(pissing off Russia) and the options for a further 16.

BNP scum hounded the competent BAF leadership out and replaced them with retards and so BAF suffers to this day.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I agree on the whole but BAF used to be a very professional and well-led force.
> 
> During the 1st AL term of 1996-2001, it wanted 27 F-16s. The US refused saying that the aircraft was not suitable for BD - more than likely due to the fact that BD was very poor at the time.
> After this indignity BD put in an order for 16 + 16 options of Mig-29. 8 Mig-29s were delivered to BD before AL lost power and the new BNP government cancelled the remaining 8(pissing off Russia) and the options for a further 16.
> 
> BNP scum hounded the competent BAF leadership out and replaced them with retards and so BAF suffers to this day.



Keep in mind.

BAF currently has about 35-40 F-7 variants and 8 Mig-29s.

So your looking at about 45-50 planes that need to be purchased at least.

What is the budget here?

Thats ultimately gonna determine what and how many are bought right?

Any guesses as to what BAF can spend here?

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## monitor

The Bangladesh Air Force is undertaking negotiations with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) for a further batch of C-130J tactical transport aircraft.

The BAF is set to receive its first pair of C-130J from the United Kingdom in the second half of 2019. At present the two aircraft are being refitted and overhauled by Marshall Aerospace.

https://www.bdmilitary.com/…/uk-offers-mrca-c-130j-to-bang…/







Avicenna said:


> Keep in mind.
> 
> BAF currently has about 35-40 F-7 variants and 8 Mig-29s.
> 
> So your looking at about 45-50 planes that need to be purchased at least.
> 
> What is the budget here?
> 
> Thats ultimately gonna determine what and how many are bought right?
> 
> Any guesses as to what BAF can spend here?



we are going to get second hand Euro fighter from Britain and Su-30 from Russia .

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## Rahil Ahmed

monitor said:


> The Bangladesh Air Force is undertaking negotiations with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) for a further batch of C-130J tactical transport aircraft.
> 
> The BAF is set to receive its first pair of C-130J from the United Kingdom in the second half of 2019. At present the two aircraft are being refitted and overhauled by Marshall Aerospace.
> 
> https://www.bdmilitary.com/…/uk-offers-mrca-c-130j-to-bang…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we are going to get second hand Euro fighter from Britain and Su-30 from Russia .


Is that Confirmed or just your guess?


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## monitor

Four C-130J, not 3.

Four replaces 4 existing C-130B*








Rahil Ahmed said:


> Is that Confirmed or just your guess?



All are information from bdmilitary.com


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## Rahil Ahmed

monitor said:


> Four C-130J, not 3.
> 
> Four replaces 4 existing C-130B*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All are information from bdmilitary.com


Any Idea if BD Millitary is Credible?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Keep in mind.
> 
> BAF currently has about 35-40 F-7 variants and 8 Mig-29s.
> 
> So your looking at about 45-50 planes that need to be purchased at least.
> 
> What is the budget here?
> 
> Thats ultimately gonna determine what and how many are bought right?
> 
> Any guesses as to what BAF can spend here?




Look, BD is not exactly that short of money as it has a defence budget of 4-4.5 billion US dollars a year as arms imports are not counted in the official defence expenditure.

The economy is also growing very fast(8% right now) and everyone agrees that it will stay good for a long time into the future as everything like exports, debt, infrastructure, political stability etc looks ok. BAF can buy knowing that it's budget will increase rapidly into the foreseeable future.

What is the fundamental problem is the ineptness of the BAF leadership to me it seems. There are always bottlenecks at any time but BAF leadership seems to not be able to get past them. If you look at the MRCA proposal form early 2017, it only had one supplier Russia that could fulfil the conditions and so not surprised that the Russians reportedly played hard ball with BD. And now BD is in a position that it cannot buy any planes from Russia without seriously annoying USA and so Russia looks like it is out of the picture.

China is unreliable as regards Myanmar and so the only real way to deal with the Barmans is to go Western. Has BAF been seriously considering Western fighters till maybe this year? You can bet absolutely no as the leadership to me seems to lack any strategic vision. 

China would be useful against India but war is remote with them and BD would be in serious trouble if it came to anything near that. So buying planes from them is not an immediate priority.

As to the answer to your question, I would say 1-2 squadrons of Euro-canards and 3-4 squadrons of J-10s over the next 5 years is within BAF's budget.


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## Arthur

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Any Idea if BD Millitary is Credible?


On the matter of Fighter purchase?
No.



Avicenna said:


> Keep in mind.
> 
> BAF currently has about 35-40 F-7 variants and 8 Mig-29s.
> 
> So your looking at about 45-50 planes that need to be purchased at least.
> 
> What is the budget here?
> 
> Thats ultimately gonna determine what and how many are bought right?
> 
> Any guesses as to what BAF can spend here?


$1 billion initially. This will expand over time. I think 3 billion over 5-8 years. We will still need a generous buyers credit though.

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## monitor

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Any Idea if BD Millitary is Credible?



something is better then none . until now many of their information proved right .

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## Rahil Ahmed

It seems that its just a ploy to make money, Make interesting sounding articles, to be able to read them force the viewer to pay Money.


monitor said:


> something is better then none . until now many of their information proved right .

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Look, BD is not exactly that short of money as it has a defence budget of 4-4.5 billion US dollars a year as arms imports are not counted in the official defence expenditure.
> 
> The economy is also growing very fast(8% right now) and everyone agrees that it will stay good for a long time into the future as everything like exports, debt, infrastructure, political stability etc looks ok. BAF can buy knowing that it's budget will increase rapidly into the foreseeable future.
> 
> What is the fundamental problem is the ineptness of the BAF leadership to me it seems. There are always bottlenecks at any time but BAF leadership seems to not be able to get past them. If you look at the MRCA proposal form early 2017, it only had one supplier Russia that could fulfil the conditions and so not surprised that the Russians reportedly played hard ball with BD. And now BD is in a position that it cannot buy any planes from Russia without seriously annoying USA and so Russia looks like it is out of the picture.
> 
> China is unreliable as regards Myanmar and so the only real way to deal with the Barmans is to go Western. Has BAF been seriously considering Western fighters till maybe this year? You can bet absolutely no as the leadership to me seems to lack any strategic vision.
> 
> China would be useful against India but war is remote with them and BD would be in serious trouble if it came to anything near that. So buying planes from them is not an immediate priority.
> 
> As to the answer to your question, I would say 1-2 squadrons of Euro-canards and 3-4 squadrons of J-10s over the next 5 years is within BAF's budget.



So a full strength squadron in BAF is 16 examples?

So 16-32 Tranche 3B Typhoon is gonna be how much?

We can look to what Kuwait and Qatar paid for theirs.

https://gulfbusiness.com/kuwait-receive-first-eurofighter-typhoon-fighter-jets-late-2020/

Qatar 6.8B for 24

Kuwait 8.7B for 28.

Of course this is not just for the aircraft but it may give us a rough guage of the costs invloved with the latest type.

Far more likely for BAF if it does go the Typhoon route (still skeptical) is old Tranche 1 examples that UK wanted to phase out.

And definitely, if any Western type is purchased, either the BAF has to shrink or a second type has to be bought to fill out the numbers.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> So a full strength squadron in BAF is 16 examples?
> 
> So 16-32 Tranche 3B Typhoon is gonna be how much?
> 
> We can look to what Kuwait and Qatar paid for theirs.
> 
> https://gulfbusiness.com/kuwait-receive-first-eurofighter-typhoon-fighter-jets-late-2020/
> 
> Qatar 6.8B for 24
> 
> Kuwait 8.7B for 28.
> 
> Of course this is not just for the aircraft but it may give us a rough guage of the costs invloved with the latest type.
> 
> Far more likely for BAF if it does go the Typhoon route (still skeptical) is old Tranche 1 examples that UK wanted to phase out.
> 
> And definitely, if any Western type is purchased, either the BAF has to shrink or a second type has to be bought to fill out the numbers.


I think a good idea would be to go with a good idea would be to get 1 squadron of typhoons an a lot of F-16s.


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> So a full strength squadron in BAF is 16 examples?
> 
> So 16-32 Tranche 3B Typhoon is gonna be how much?
> 
> We can look to what Kuwait and Qatar paid for theirs.
> 
> https://gulfbusiness.com/kuwait-receive-first-eurofighter-typhoon-fighter-jets-late-2020/
> 
> Qatar 6.8B for 24
> 
> Kuwait 8.7B for 28.
> 
> Of course this is not just for the aircraft but it may give us a rough guage of the costs invloved with the latest type.
> 
> Far more likely for BAF if it does go the Typhoon route (still skeptical) is old Tranche 1 examples that UK wanted to phase out.
> 
> And definitely, if any Western type is purchased, either the BAF has to shrink or a second type has to be bought to fill out the numbers.


BAF is seeking a Single Engine Twin engine mix. Number of Twin engine won't exceed 24 (2 squadron). 

Twin engine fighters won't replace single engine. They will purchase a single engine fighter to replace F 7. This is where Gripen and J 10 comes in.

So the final numbers are :

-12/24 Twin engine.
-36-40 Single engine.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> S
> 
> And definitely, if any Western type is purchased, either the BAF has to shrink or a second type has to be bought to fill out the numbers.




BAF does not necessarily have to shrink if Euro-canards are brought as long as the economy stays on it's current fast growth.
The budget for BAF could be more than double what it is in real terms in 10 years.


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## TopCat

monitor said:


> we are going to get second hand Euro fighter from Britain and Su-30 from Russia .


SU-30 and Typhoon combination is nothing but bull$hit

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## Bengal71

Syed Abal Khan of BDMilitary is a complete cheater. None of his claims are credible. All false.

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## Rahil Ahmed

We need the Air force to at least buy a Murir Tin for our skies


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## Nike

Bengal71 said:


> Syed Abal Khan of BDMilitary is a complete cheater. None of his claims are credible. All false.



At least my source about Bd trying to get C130j ex UK is more credible lol

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## Michael Corleone

Marine Rouge said:


> At least my source about Bd trying to get C130j ex UK is more credible lol


i remember khan talking about those c130s from quite some time


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## Rahil Ahmed

Man I kind of am half wishing Bangladesh sells its soul to the US, just to see something happening, way better than wherever we are now


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## Bengal71

Michael Corleone said:


> i remember khan talking about those c130s from quite some time



Yes he did. But for fighter jets, there is no fighter jet in the world he didn't talk about. Now whichever BAF buys, he will say "I told you so". He is a fraud and has no connection within the military, even if he did the military won't say anything about their procurements.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Bengal71 said:


> Yes he did. But for fighter jets, there is no fighter jet in the world he didn't talk about. Now whichever BAF buys, he will say "I told you so". He is a fraud and has no connection within the military, even if he did the military won't say anything about their procurements.


Yeah some of these articles are just ridiculous, I even saw one that would cost $100 to read


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## Mahim Pervez

Bengal71 said:


> Yes he did. But for fighter jets, there is no fighter jet in the world he didn't talk about. Now whichever BAF buys, he will say "I told you so". He is a fraud and has no connection within the military, even if he did the military won't say anything about their procurements.


At first, The deal of C-130J was announced by PSBD ( Plane Spotters of Bangladesh ) and then ISPR confirmed. He came to know about the deal from them.It was not a news from his sources.

Better follow PSBD for fighter jet deal. They will surely post if something is gonna really come . Otherwise EFT, Gripen etc are just hoax.

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## The Ronin

Didn't really want to say anything but these pricks can really nag about the same crap over and over again. This forum is already infested with trolls and now some Bangladeshi idiots encourage those miserable SOB to make things worse. Yes some news Syed published become wrong because he is not the fucking decision maker. He just publishes the news he gets from his source. Every year DGDP holds at least two meeting to decide which things they will purchase or not.

Now some of our Bangladeshi and foreign idiots have built a weird syndrome that anything comes from BD Military they will not believe it. They will only believe when some foreign website like Defense blog or Army/Navy or Air Recognition will publish anything about Bangladesh. But those sites only gives update about order, still it's BD Military who provides you more details, photos and videos. So who told you to go to his site or read his news? Why do you still follow his news or discuss about it? Did he beg you to do it? No, you are the one starts moaning like whiny little bitch every time someone mentions Syed Amar Khan's name.

It's like you are an ex-gf of Syed Amar Khan who was used, banged and dumped by him and his name makes your pussy wet every time. So if you don't like him or don't believe him, then kindly avoid his news but don't come whine about him here and there every now and then. That guy's only and main fault is he tries to give us update on anything in advance and publish news first but we cunts can't accept it. Like that Bengali proverb-"Dog's stomach can't disgest/tolerate ghee". Many us just can't appreciate someone's effort and love to criticize-troll like dumb-*** even when it's not worth it. We Bangladeshis always good at remembering someone's bad shit instead of good things.

So i don't see you bitches whine when Seikh Hasina announced that BN will buy Harbin Z-9C but later bought AW-159 Wildcat instead, Battle Machine posted about BAF's Su-30 procurement or DGDP issue and cancels tender about Mig-29's upgrade two times. Are those not Syed Amar Khan's fault? 

I also didn't see you idiots celebrate when Syed Amar Khan's news about six frigate, second hand Type 53H3 frigate, building two more C-13B in China when those were actually supposed to be built in KSY, survey and hydro-graphic survey vessel, more Type-59 from China, C-295W, BAF building wind tunnel in Jessore, Japan giving patrol vessel, new K-8W, oceanographic survey vessel, MRSAM, Oerlikon GDF, BCG buying OPV and helicopter etc came true.

When one/two years ago BD Military talked about J-10 and even shared photos some very particular people laughed about it but now we found out that BAF really went to inspect the fighter jet. If anybody talked about Eurofighter Typhoon first it would be Syed Amar Khan. I remember how one photo of our BAF Chief with Typhoon started troll fest in PDF and among Bangladeshis. Even i laughed when SAK said PM has two options for heavy MRCA, one is Typhoon and other is Su-35. And now UK really offered us the Typhoon.

Said it before and will say it again, military procurement takes time. It's not like your Eid shopping. It depends on budget, geopolitics and other circumstances. BD govt, DGDP or SAK don't give a single flying **** about you impatient civilian bitches who can't hold orgasm over military procurement news. You are not the center of their attention, they will take as long as they want to buy thing and SAK will publish news even if you bitches cry river. If you think you are better in this shit then go open your own website or try to join the decision makers. Otherwise plz, for god sake, আল্লাহর ওয়াস্তে stop whining about the same crap. It's fucking annoying.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...6ndoYRW-niZL-CofospbPWczipcWGKhkDQdX_flrQo4Pw

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/japan-back-bay-bengal

https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/national/china-offers-j-10-fighter-jets-to-bangladesh-1548474148

http://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-i...award-survey-boat-contract-to-local-shipyard/

And about the two C-130J, the news came first on BD Military even the Air Recognition reported it base on their report. Still PDF trolls specially Al-Biryani, Al-Beguni refused to believe that news.

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...x-raf-hercules-c5-airlifters-procurement.html












Now before you idiots with two kilobytes memory give credit to PSBD again, i gotta remind you that Syed Amar Khan was the one AGAIN who posted about negotiations for three/four more ex-RAF C-130J first before PSBD verified it. Keep that in mind kono yaro!!
















So my suggestion to you don't believe and ignore SAK's news or keep track and check which news came true. Maybe some of his news don't come true but not everything he writes is total BS.



Marine Rouge said:


> At least my source about Bd trying to get C130j ex UK is more credible lol



"At least my source about Bd trying to get C130J ex UK is more credible lol" blah blah blah. I clearly remember Al-Biryani, Al-Beguni but don't remember you or your so called source jumping around when we discussed about C-130J here. I only remember you correcting me the airframes age. Anyway how about you ask your "SAUCE" for any update on the ongoing negotiations between BAF and RAF for additional C-130J instead of jerking off here? Now shoo.



Michael Corleone said:


> i remember khan talking about those c130s from quite some time



That magi noddles is a fucking troll. Always lurks here and in Myanmar section for chances to troll or be sarcastic about anything Bangladesh even when no one is provoking his/her or talking about his/her country. This POS was more hyped about Type-53H3 and C-13B's arrival than any of us but didn't saw him/her celebrate when new corvettes arrived. Wonder why.



Bengal71 said:


> Syed Abal Khan of BDMilitary is a complete cheater. None of his claims are credible. All false.





Bengal71 said:


> Yes he did. But for fighter jets, there is no fighter jet in the world he didn't talk about. Now whichever BAF buys, he will say "I told you so". He is a fraud and has no connection within the military, even if he did the military won't say anything about their procurements.



Make up your goddamn mind. Which one is it? First you say all his news are false now one thread later you admit about C-130J and only blame him for fighter jets. And he only talked about buying J-10, Su-30,35, Mig-35 and EFT. We all discuss about those here every time. Don't see anyone's head roll on the ground for that.



Rahil Ahmed said:


> Yeah some of these articles are just ridiculous, I even saw one that would cost $100 to read



Well Bangladeshis don't hesitate to cut-copy-paste anything people writes specially some youtubers.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Didn't really want to say anything but these pricks can really nag about the same crap over and over again. This forum is already infested with trolls and now some Bangladeshi idiots encourage those miserable SOB to make things worse. Yes some news Syed published become wrong because he is not the fucking decision maker. He just publishes the news he gets from his source. Every year DGDP holds at least two meeting to decide which things they will purchase or not.
> 
> Now some of our Bangladeshi and foreign idiots have build a weird syndrome that anything comes from BD Military they will not believe it. They will only believe when some foreign website like Defense blog or Army/Navy or Air Recognition will publish anything about Bangladesh. But those sites only gives update about order, still it's BD Military who provides you more details, photos and videos. So who told you to go to his site or read his news? Why do you still follow his news or discuss about it? Did he beg you to do it? No, you are the one starts moaning like whiny little bitch every time someone mentions Syed Amar Khan's name.
> 
> It's like you are an ex-gf of Syed Amar Khan who was used, banged and dumped by him and his name makes your pussy wet every time. So if you don't like him or don't believe him, then kindly avoid his news but don't come whine about him here and there every now and then. That guy's only and main fault is he tries to give us update on anything in advance and publish news first but we cunts can't accept it. Like that Bengali proverb-"Dog's stomach can't disgest/tolerate ghee". Many us just can't appreciate someone's effort and love to criticize-troll like dumb-*** even when it's not worth it. We Bangladeshis always good at remembering someone's bad shit instead of good things.
> 
> So i don't see you bitches whine when Seikh Hasina announced that BN will buy Harbin Z-9C but later bought AW-159 Wildcat instead, Battle Machine posted about BAF's Su-30 procurement or DGDP issue and cancels tender about Mig-29's upgrade two times. Are those not Syed Amar Khan's fault?
> 
> I also didn't see you idiots celebrate when Syed Amar Khan's news about six frigate, second hand Type 53H3 frigate, building two more C-13B in China when those were actually supposed to be built in KSY, survey and hydro-graphic survey vessel, more Type-59 from China, C-295W, BAF building wind tunnel in Jessore, Japan giving patrol vessel, new K-8W, oceanographic survey vessel, MRSAM, BCG buying OPV and helicopter etc came true.
> 
> When one/two years ago BD Military talked about J-10 and even shared photos some very particular people laughed about it but now we found out that BAF really went to inspect the fighter jet. If anybody talked about Eurofighter Typhoon first it would be Syed Amar Khan. I remember how one photo of our BAF Chief with Typhoon started troll fest in PDF and among Bangladeshis. Even i laughed when SAK said PM has two options for heavy MRCA, one is Typhoon and other is Su-35. And now UK really offered us the Typhoon.
> 
> Said it before and will say it again, military procurement takes time. It's not like your Eid shopping. It depends on budget, geopolitics and other circumstances. BD govt, DGDP or SAK don't give a single flying **** about you impatient civilian bitches who can't hold orgasm over military procurement news. You are not the center of their attention, they will take as long as they want to buy thing and SAK will publish news even if you bitches cry river. If you think you are better in this shit then go open your own website or try to join the decision makers. Otherwise plz, for god sake, আল্লাহর ওয়াস্তে stop whining about the same crap. It's fucking annoying.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...6ndoYRW-niZL-CofospbPWczipcWGKhkDQdX_flrQo4Pw
> 
> https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/japan-back-bay-bengal
> 
> https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/national/china-offers-j-10-fighter-jets-to-bangladesh-1548474148
> 
> http://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-i...award-survey-boat-contract-to-local-shipyard/
> 
> And about the two C-130J, the news came first on BD Military even the Air Recognition reported it base on their report. Still PDF trolls specially Al-Biryani, Al-Beguni refused to believe that news.
> 
> https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...x-raf-hercules-c5-airlifters-procurement.html
> 
> View attachment 560420
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now before you idiots with two kilobytes memory give credit to PSBD again, i gotta remind you that Syed Amar Khan was the one AGAIN who posted about negotiations for three/four more ex-RAF C-130J first before PSBD verified it. Keep that in mind kono yaro!!
> 
> View attachment 560412
> 
> 
> View attachment 560413
> 
> 
> View attachment 560414
> 
> 
> So my suggestion to you don't believe and ignore SAK's news or keep track and check which news came true. Maybe some of his news don't come true but not everything he writes is total BS.
> 
> 
> 
> "At least my source about Bd trying to get C130J ex UK is more credible lol" blah blah blah. I clearly remember Al-Biryani, Al-Beguni but don't remember you or your so called source jumping around when we discussed about C-130J here. I only remember you correcting me the airframes age. Anyway how about you ask your "SAUCE" for any update on the ongoing negotiations between BAF and RAF for additional C-130J instead of jerking off here? Now shoo.
> 
> 
> 
> That magi noddles is a fucking troll. Always lurks here and in Myanmar section for chances to troll or be sarcastic about anything Bangladesh even when no one is provoking his/her or talking about his/her country. This POS was more hyped about Type-53H3 and C-13B's arrival than any of us but didn't saw him/her celebrate when new corvettes arrived. Wonder why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make up your goddamn mind. Which one is it? First you say all his news are false now one thread later you admit about C-130J. And he only talked about buying J-10, Su-30,35, Mig-35 and EFT.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Bangladeshis don't hesitate to cut-copy-paste anything people writes specially some youtubers.


good that someone finally said something... i didn;t have the time to gather evidence and proof to defend SAK and i think coming from me.... people would then call me chamcha and so i kept quite...
there are few stuff that he still haven't told the people in the group and told me... i also remember him getting angry at me for sharing some of those stuff here with people... so i rather keep quite and let Khan inform people and stick to being a critique or analyse a situation when i have free time


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## monitor

Upgraded Bell 212of BAF

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## The Ronin

The Bangladesh Air Force will be sending pilots to RAF air base Brize Norton in Oxfordshire to train with No. XXIV Squadron on the newest C-130J transport aircraft.

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## Avicenna

Very nice pic!

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## nahtanbob

Avicenna said:


> So a full strength squadron in BAF is 16 examples?
> 
> So 16-32 Tranche 3B Typhoon is gonna be how much?
> 
> We can look to what Kuwait and Qatar paid for theirs.
> 
> https://gulfbusiness.com/kuwait-receive-first-eurofighter-typhoon-fighter-jets-late-2020/
> 
> Qatar 6.8B for 24
> 
> Kuwait 8.7B for 28.
> 
> Of course this is not just for the aircraft but it may give us a rough guage of the costs invloved with the latest type.
> 
> Far more likely for BAF if it does go the Typhoon route (still skeptical) is old Tranche 1 examples that UK wanted to phase out.
> 
> And definitely, if any Western type is purchased, either the BAF has to shrink or a second type has to be bought to fill out the numbers.



F-16s are the most cost effective Western multi-role fighter

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## Rahil Ahmed

nahtanbob said:


> F-16s are the most cost effective Western multi-role fighter


That also come with many strings attached

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## nahtanbob

Rahil Ahmed said:


> That also come with many strings attached


that is true


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## Rahil Ahmed

nahtanbob said:


> that is true


I don't mind buying American arms, the problem is that it would limit Bangladesh's option in the future. Especially with things for the Air force since most of BAF's effectiveness would be venerable to American Foreign Policy


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## nahtanbob

Rahil Ahmed said:


> I don't mind buying American arms, the problem is that it would limit Bangladesh's option in the future. Especially with things for the Air force since most of BAF's effectiveness would be venerable to American Foreign Policy



you need weapons for self-defense. Going to war with India and Myanmar should be one of last resort


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## Avicenna

nahtanbob said:


> F-16s are the most cost effective Western multi-role fighter



Agreed.

I'm all for F-16's for BAF.

Bangladesh is a really docile nation that really has no offensive designs.

And certainly, I can't see any reason why BD wouldn't play by Uncle Sam's rules.

What BD does need is strong political backing by someone that matters.

Of course BD can't alienate China too much but if push ever comes to shove with Myanmar it needs a "friend" who can offer more than words, even if its not altruistic in nature.

Also, I can not picture a scenario where Bangladesh goes to war against India.

Unless India ever decides to invade.

The chances of which are nearly nil.

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## Rahil Ahmed

nahtanbob said:


> you need weapons for self-defense. Going to war with India and Myanmar should be one of last resort


Yes, but my point is once you buy American, you are stuck in the Ecosystem, lets say 3 years after the purchase of F-16's that Bangladesh wants to buy some Chinese planes, Do you think the US would allow them to do so? No. They want Bangladesh to turn in to another major client state that will exclusively buy from the US


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Yes, but my point is once you buy American, you are stuck in the Ecosystem, lets say 3 years after the purchase of F-16's that Bangladesh wants to buy some Chinese planes, Do you think the US would allow them to do so? No. They want Bangladesh to turn in to another major client state that will exclusively buy from the US



Yea thats ok.

At least it means access.

The US is open for business under Trump.

Which is much better than the scenario in the 90's when BD WANTED to buy F-16s and was laughed at.


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## nahtanbob

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Yes, but my point is once you buy American, you are stuck in the Ecosystem, lets say 3 years after the purchase of F-16's that Bangladesh wants to buy some Chinese planes, Do you think the US would allow them to do so? No. They want Bangladesh to turn in to another major client state that will exclusively buy from the US



Cut this China crap ...

Your textile exports are going to Japan, Western Europe and USA. If they cut off your exports you are staring at 4th world status

*Top 10 Export Partners Of Bangladesh*
*Rank* *Country* *Export in Billion US-Dollar (2016)*
1 United States 6.10
2 Germany 5.49
3 United Kingdom 3.52
4 France 2.73
5 Spain 2.52
6 Italy 1.46
7 Canada 1.22
8 Japan 1.21
9 Belgium Luxembourg 1.16
10 Netherlands 1.10


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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Also, I can not picture a scenario where Bangladesh goes to war against India.
> 
> Unless India ever decides to invade.
> 
> The chances of which are nearly nil.



We have nothing to gain and everything to lose...it wont happen. We just want Bangladesh to get richer and stronger and more confident....and hopefully have as little ego as possible. We are all too poor for war....we will settle things of contention peacefully as they should be.

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> We have nothing to gain and everything to lose...it wont happen. We just want Bangladesh to get richer and stronger and more confident....and hopefully have as little ego as possible. We are all too poor for war....we will settle things of contention peacefully as they should be.



Yea i agree.

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## Mahim Pervez

The Ronin said:


> Didn't really want to say anything but these pricks can really nag about the same crap over and over again. This forum is already infested with trolls and now some Bangladeshi idiots encourage those miserable SOB to make things worse. Yes some news Syed published become wrong because he is not the fucking decision maker. He just publishes the news he gets from his source. Every year DGDP holds at least two meeting to decide which things they will purchase or not.
> 
> Now some of our Bangladeshi and foreign idiots have built a weird syndrome that anything comes from BD Military they will not believe it. They will only believe when some foreign website like Defense blog or Army/Navy or Air Recognition will publish anything about Bangladesh. But those sites only gives update about order, still it's BD Military who provides you more details, photos and videos. So who told you to go to his site or read his news? Why do you still follow his news or discuss about it? Did he beg you to do it? No, you are the one starts moaning like whiny little bitch every time someone mentions Syed Amar Khan's name.
> 
> It's like you are an ex-gf of Syed Amar Khan who was used, banged and dumped by him and his name makes your pussy wet every time. So if you don't like him or don't believe him, then kindly avoid his news but don't come whine about him here and there every now and then. That guy's only and main fault is he tries to give us update on anything in advance and publish news first but we cunts can't accept it. Like that Bengali proverb-"Dog's stomach can't disgest/tolerate ghee". Many us just can't appreciate someone's effort and love to criticize-troll like dumb-*** even when it's not worth it. We Bangladeshis always good at remembering someone's bad shit instead of good things.
> 
> So i don't see you bitches whine when Seikh Hasina announced that BN will buy Harbin Z-9C but later bought AW-159 Wildcat instead, Battle Machine posted about BAF's Su-30 procurement or DGDP issue and cancels tender about Mig-29's upgrade two times. Are those not Syed Amar Khan's fault?
> 
> I also didn't see you idiots celebrate when Syed Amar Khan's news about six frigate, second hand Type 53H3 frigate, building two more C-13B in China when those were actually supposed to be built in KSY, survey and hydro-graphic survey vessel, more Type-59 from China, C-295W, BAF building wind tunnel in Jessore, Japan giving patrol vessel, new K-8W, oceanographic survey vessel, MRSAM, Oerlikon GDF, BCG buying OPV and helicopter etc came true.
> 
> When one/two years ago BD Military talked about J-10 and even shared photos some very particular people laughed about it but now we found out that BAF really went to inspect the fighter jet. If anybody talked about Eurofighter Typhoon first it would be Syed Amar Khan. I remember how one photo of our BAF Chief with Typhoon started troll fest in PDF and among Bangladeshis. Even i laughed when SAK said PM has two options for heavy MRCA, one is Typhoon and other is Su-35. And now UK really offered us the Typhoon.
> 
> Said it before and will say it again, military procurement takes time. It's not like your Eid shopping. It depends on budget, geopolitics and other circumstances. BD govt, DGDP or SAK don't give a single flying **** about you impatient civilian bitches who can't hold orgasm over military procurement news. You are not the center of their attention, they will take as long as they want to buy thing and SAK will publish news even if you bitches cry river. If you think you are better in this shit then go open your own website or try to join the decision makers. Otherwise plz, for god sake, আল্লাহর ওয়াস্তে stop whining about the same crap. It's fucking annoying.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...6ndoYRW-niZL-CofospbPWczipcWGKhkDQdX_flrQo4Pw
> 
> https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/japan-back-bay-bengal
> 
> https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/national/china-offers-j-10-fighter-jets-to-bangladesh-1548474148
> 
> http://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-i...award-survey-boat-contract-to-local-shipyard/
> 
> And about the two C-130J, the news came first on BD Military even the Air Recognition reported it base on their report. Still PDF trolls specially Al-Biryani, Al-Beguni refused to believe that news.
> 
> https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...x-raf-hercules-c5-airlifters-procurement.html
> 
> View attachment 560420
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now before you idiots with two kilobytes memory give credit to PSBD again, i gotta remind you that Syed Amar Khan was the one AGAIN who posted about negotiations for three/four more ex-RAF C-130J first before PSBD verified it. Keep that in mind kono yaro!!
> 
> View attachment 560412
> 
> 
> View attachment 560413
> 
> 
> View attachment 560414
> 
> 
> So my suggestion to you don't believe and ignore SAK's news or keep track and check which news came true. Maybe some of his news don't come true but not everything he writes is total BS.
> 
> 
> 
> "At least my source about Bd trying to get C130J ex UK is more credible lol" blah blah blah. I clearly remember Al-Biryani, Al-Beguni but don't remember you or your so called source jumping around when we discussed about C-130J here. I only remember you correcting me the airframes age. Anyway how about you ask your "SAUCE" for any update on the ongoing negotiations between BAF and RAF for additional C-130J instead of jerking off here? Now shoo.
> 
> 
> 
> That magi noddles is a fucking troll. Always lurks here and in Myanmar section for chances to troll or be sarcastic about anything Bangladesh even when no one is provoking his/her or talking about his/her country. This POS was more hyped about Type-53H3 and C-13B's arrival than any of us but didn't saw him/her celebrate when new corvettes arrived. Wonder why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make up your goddamn mind. Which one is it? First you say all his news are false now one thread later you admit about C-130J and only blame him for fighter jets. And he only talked about buying J-10, Su-30,35, Mig-35 and EFT. We all discuss about those here every time. Don't see anyone's head roll on the ground for that.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Bangladeshis don't hesitate to cut-copy-paste anything people writes specially some youtubers.


How funny! So what if SAK had posted the news on 10th July 2018. BanglaTribune, PSBD and other got this news earlier than him and published too. Deal was officially signed on 10 May 2018 and how can you think we all got the news then. We all were informed long ago.


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## Mahim Pervez

Syed Amar Khan heard the news from him. Ask SAK with whom he was chatting.


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## Mahim Pervez

9 July 2017 [emoji6]


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## Mahim Pervez

The Ronin said:


> Nope, Air Recognition posted it few days later after he reported it. At least 10/8 days later. The point is he reported it before PSBD.



What about this one? Please provide us with the link when SAK said first about C-130J procurement ( being sure )


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## Mahim Pervez

The Ronin said:


> And even if you manage prove me wrong here, there are other examples where this guy reported right things many times.



I'm not denying this but he never spread hoax isn't true also. I can remember BDmilitary posted that BN rejected Brahmos offer, Russia offered Admiral Gorshkov to BN and so on and all of the above statements were false. So blindly believing him is difficult to us. Never mind.

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> And now UK really offered us the Typhoon.


Been out of the loop for a while, when did this happen? 


The Ronin said:


> Al-Biryani, Al-Beguni


LMAO


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## Mahim Pervez

Tanveer666 said:


> Been out of the loop for a while, when did this happen?



Official statement from UK Govt. UK didn't mention Typhoon btw. They want to SUPPORT Bangladesh with procurement of MRCA.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Yea thats ok.
> 
> At least it means access.
> 
> The US is open for business under Trump.
> 
> Which is much better than the scenario in the 90's when BD WANTED to buy F-16s and was laughed at.


BD was supposed to sign SOFA agreement in exchange for military support. A major reason for President Clinton's visit was to push the deal forward.

Not only F16 but F4 Phantom and few other thing were included.

Hasina herself really wanted the deal to go through, but many Senior and root level BAL leaders opposed it which resulted in BD backing out of it.

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## The Ronin

Mahim Pervez said:


> What about this one? Please provide us with the link when SAK said first about C-130J procurement ( being sure )
> View attachment 561538



I would have provided it if i found it. The closest thing i found and could remember easily was that report from Air Recognition as i told you that was reported at least 10 days later.



Mahim Pervez said:


> I'm not denying this but he never spread hoax isn't true also. I can remember BDmilitary posted that BN rejected Brahmos offer, Russia offered Admiral Gorshkov to BN and so on and all of the above statements were false. So blindly believing him is difficult to us. Never mind.



I already said that in my previous threads clearly. Not everything he publishes comes true but also not he says become false. He is not 100% reliable but i still consider him as a good source not only for the news but other infos and material he provides more than any other sources. About the examples you mentioned India is trying be our defense supplier for a while now, specially navy's. Check old threads in Navy section, if it is not removed yet you will find a photo of a magazine's page where it says Indian shipbuilder (most probably Reliance Naval and Engineering Limited) offered to build our future frigate.

Now what armament do you expect them to offer generally with the initial offer? Brahmos is the only anti-ship missile they produce and use in their naval ship. If i am not wrong we signed a defense pact/MoU with India with 500 million credit. There was a MoU signed between Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Limited, India and Khulna Shipyard Limited among other MoUs. News also surfaced about Kamorta class offer, OPV offer to BCG and last thing i found today is they even offered their OPV to navy during Padma class project. So it wouldn't be so surprising if India offers Brahmos. Except the BCG's OPV none of them came from SAK.

http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/85145







And project 22356 is the export version of Admiral Gorshkov, so he is not wrong. The frigate is in Rosoboronexport's catalog. I don't understand why you think Russia can't offer their naval ship. And more curious thing is how do you guys just jump to conclusion and say everything BD Military say is false with so much confidence without bringing any proof? Did any source from Rosoboronexport, India or our military said anything to you?

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/surface-ships-ships-and-boats/22356/

Ok, even if your examples was invalid i still know and can mention some news he reported didn't see the light. But as i also said this before in previous thread you can't blame this guy. He only publishes the news not buys those things. I also mentioned few examples of how govt and military decides and changes plans on military procurement. And i said it military purchase is not that easy. Before Rohingya issue, CAATSA act it was so obvious we will buy Chinese and Russian fighter and ships but now it seems military is trying to diversify their resources more. and american and british fighter jet is open for us. BAF was interested in JF-17 but later ended up with F-7BGI. So shit will change every time, you can't blame that guy for it.

And nobody is telling you to believe him blindly. Whether you believe him or not it's totally up to you. I like to keep check and match his news with every other reports from other sources for confirmation. Problem starts when you non-believers annoyingly keep mentioning and whining about SAK and his news, mock and abuse him where he doesn't really deserve it. Well, why do you still follow him when you say you don't like or believe him? Just keep quiet and ignore, don't make the thread trashier or derail it.


----------



## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm all for F-16's for BAF.
> 
> Bangladesh is a really docile nation that really has no offensive designs.
> 
> And certainly, I can't see any reason why BD wouldn't play by Uncle Sam's rules.
> 
> What BD does need is strong political backing by someone that matters.
> 
> Of course BD can't alienate China too much but if push ever comes to shove with Myanmar it needs a "friend" who can offer more than words, even if its not altruistic in nature.
> 
> Also, I can not picture a scenario where Bangladesh goes to war against India.
> 
> Unless India ever decides to invade.
> 
> The chances of which are nearly nil.




What makes you think that BD will remain "docile" 1-2 decades down the line?

BD will be a different country even 1 decade down the line.

You adjust your posture as the circumstances dictate.

BD military will always plan for war against India as that is the only realistic threat to BD sovereignty.

PS - Getting F-16s and having to be dictated by USA is not something a proud BD would really want.



Arthur said:


> BD was supposed to sign SOFA agreement in exchange for military support. A major reason for President Clinton's visit was to push the deal forward.
> 
> Not only F16 but F4 Phantom and few other thing were included.
> 
> Hasina herself really wanted the deal to go through, but many Senior and root level BAL leaders opposed it which resulted in BD backing out of it.





Good that BD rejected this as BD needs to maintain it's sovereignty.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> What makes you think that BD will remain "docile" 1-2 decades down the line?
> 
> BD will be a different country even 1 decade down the line.
> 
> You adjust your posture as the circumstances dictate.
> 
> BD military will always plan for war against India as that is the only realistic threat to BD sovereignty.
> 
> PS - Getting F-16s and having to be dictated by USA is not something a proud BD would really want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good that BD rejected this as BD needs to maintain it's sovereignty.



Its precisely this attitude which hurts Bangaldesh.

Understand who you are and what is realisitic.

There are few countries on earth that can truely go it alone.

Bangaldesh isnt one of them.

Make a friend (US/Europe) play by their rules. 

If not Bangladesh will remain vulnerable as we have so clearly seen.

Myanmar has strong political support from the bigger players.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Its precisely this attitude which hurts Bangaldesh.
> 
> Understand who you are and what is realisitic.
> 
> There are few countries on earth that can truely go it alone.
> 
> Bangaldesh isnt one of them.
> 
> Make a friend (US/Europe) play by their rules.
> 
> If not Bangladesh will remain vulnerable as we have so clearly seen.
> 
> Myanmar has strong political support from the bigger players.



Yes BD needs friends but not at the expense of having no sovereignty that procurement of solely US F-16s would provide. 

Anything BD buys now may be in service to 2050.
Both BD and the world order is likely to be totally different by mid-century. 

BD needs to balance both US and China for maximum sovereignty. 

BD's most reliable partner in the Muslim world is Turkey and they are coming up strong. BD needs to gradually procure much more weapons from them as their capability to supply and BD financial capability to procure increases. 

Whatever happens BD economy and technical capability needs to keep growing that it is capable to defend itself and follow an independent foreign policy.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Yes BD needs friends but not at the expense of having no sovereignty that procurement of solely US F-16s would provide.
> 
> Anything BD buys now may be in service to 2050.
> Both BD and the world order is likely to be totally different by mid-century.
> 
> BD needs to balance both US and China for maximum sovereignty.
> 
> BD's most reliable partner in the Muslim world is Turkey and they are coming up strong. BD needs to gradually procure much more weapons from them as their capability to supply and BD financial capability to procure increases.
> 
> Whatever happens BD economy and technical capability needs to keep growing that it is capable to defend itself and follow an independent foreign policy.



If I'm concerned about Bangladeshi sovereignty perhaps we should discuss the elephant in the room that is India.

But I won't derail this post by going there.

Also, Turkey is not as strong as you think. (Although, I wish them well)

The strongest kid in school is still the US.

China may be getting stronger but in 2019, its still no contest.

More importantly in regards to BD, China WILL NOT support BD when it comes to Myanmar.

Any words that may suggest them being a neutral arbiter are lip service at best.

They have their own interests in mind.

And similarly, BD needs to look after hers.

And it can't do that by going it alone.

Look at Iran. Its completely isolated now because it didnt manage its geopolitics properly.

It has NO friends (neither Russia nor China) because the mullahs thought they can go it alone.

It is COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.

If the US chooses, it can DESTROY Iran tommorow.

So take a lesson from that and kiss the ring.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> If I'm concerned about Bangladeshi sovereignty perhaps we should discuss the elephant in the room that is India.
> 
> But I won't derail this post by going there.
> 
> Also, Turkey is not as strong as you think. (Although, I wish them well)
> 
> The strongest kid in school is still the US.
> 
> China may be getting stronger but in 2019, its still no contest.
> 
> More importantly in regards to BD, China WILL NOT support BD when it comes to Myanmar.
> 
> Any words that may suggest them being a neutral arbiter are lip service at best.
> 
> They have their own interests in mind.
> 
> And similarly, BD needs to look after hers.
> 
> And it can't do that by going it alone.
> 
> Look at Iran. Its completely isolated now because it didnt manage its geopolitics properly.
> 
> It has NO friends (neither Russia nor China) because the mullahs thought they can go it alone.
> 
> It is COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.
> 
> If the US chooses, it can DESTROY Iran tommorow.
> 
> So take a lesson from that and kiss the ring.


You are right.. even USA cant do everything alone. They always look for allies in every corner of the globe.
If our people are too incompetent then they should work with India and try to act as force multiplier and get involved in big game.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> If I'm concerned about Bangladeshi sovereignty perhaps we should discuss the elephant in the room that is India.
> 
> But I won't derail this post by going there.
> 
> Also, Turkey is not as strong as you think. (Although, I wish them well)
> 
> The strongest kid in school is still the US.
> 
> China may be getting stronger but in 2019, its still no contest.
> 
> More importantly in regards to BD, China WILL NOT support BD when it comes to Myanmar.
> 
> Any words that may suggest them being a neutral arbiter are lip service at best.
> 
> They have their own interests in mind.
> 
> And similarly, BD needs to look after hers.
> 
> And it can't do that by going it alone.
> 
> Look at Iran. Its completely isolated now because it didnt manage its geopolitics properly.
> 
> It has NO friends (neither Russia nor China) because the mullahs thought they can go it alone.
> 
> It is COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.
> 
> If the US chooses, it can DESTROY Iran tommorow.
> 
> So take a lesson from that and kiss the ring.



I am thinking of BD balancing between the USA and China. 
It has good ties with both but no subservient relationship with either. 
BD buys both Western and Chinese arms, plus Turkish as they are available. It also produces as much in-house like it does with ToT from China currently and Turkey in the future. 

This is not the same as Iran who actively works against US interests and so is isolated. 

Remember the world of 2050 will be a lot different to the world of today. BD is large enough population wise to not have to choose one camp over another.

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## Avicenna

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/05/article/to-pacify-trump-indonesia-seeks-american-arms/

As I said, the US is open for business if Bangladesh wants.

The way I see this potentially going, is the US may want to disrupt Chinese interests in Arakan as @Bilal9 has stated before.

Not directly of course, but to irritate China using Bangladesh as their proxy to limit Chinese access to BoB.

Bangladesh can fit in with countries like Vietnam and India to hedge against China.

And the sale of American weapons would facilitate this.

As BAF is publicly shopping for new fighters, the F-16 makes all the sense in the world at this point.

Especially in light of CAATSA and Bangaldesh's new found financial improvements.

I think its up to Bangaldesh at this point to decide.

The arguement about "giving up soverignty" is a false one.

The alternative is to be diplomatically isolated and vulnerable with NO BACKING the next time Myanmar acts up.

Of course there are points to be made against the above as in the video below which are definitely reasonable, although I disagree with several of the points.

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## mb444

BD needs to take a position going with F16 at this point is not a bad option. Even with issues with US issues i would say just dive in.

Alternatively just go with the eurofighter. Thats mainly British. We will have more leverage there. BD has 3 mps in the uk parliament and the backing of its diaspora.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> BD needs to take a position going with F16 at this point is not a bad option. Even with issues with US issues i would say just dive in.
> 
> Alternatively just go with the eurofighter. Thats mainly British. We will have more leverage there. BD has 3 mps in the uk parliament and the backing of its diaspora.




Definitely would not want to go with the USA and just buy less of the more expensive Typhoons.

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## Avisheik

I joined this forum 8 years ago, almost everything about the navy procurement has come true.

Except the 5th gen aircrafts, all other types such as rafael, gripen, sukhois, migs, chengdus, Jf17, has been discussed and argued over regarding their specs, geopolitical consequences, economical effect, reliability, TOT etc. 

But every news about the fighters for the air force has been just hot air so far. I am beginning to suspect that the J7s werent stop gap as intended, but rather the fighter purchase for the decade.

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## mb444

Avisheik said:


> I joined this forum 8 years ago, almost everything about the navy procurement has come true.
> 
> Except the 5th gen aircrafts, all other types such as rafael, gripen, sukhois, migs, chengdus, Jf17, has been discussed and argued over regarding their specs, geopolitical consequences, economical effect, reliability, TOT etc.
> 
> But every news about the fighters for the air force has been just hot air so far. I am beginning to suspect that the J7s werent stop gap as intended, but rather the fighter purchase for the decade.



Entirely feasible. BAF is not fit for purpose and should be broken up and subsumed as BA logistics force.

We should divert our resources to building up a missile force.

After that we should implement a BAF that is fit for purpose. Sack the current management and deadweight and put the resources to better use.


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## Rahil Ahmed

You guys have any idea when the defense minister is going to release the next wave of information? Maybe in June?


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> You guys have any idea when the defense minister is going to release the next wave of information? Maybe in June?



Thats the million dollar question!


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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> Thats the million dollar question!


Is there a pattern in the time in which they decide to release this kind of information?


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Is there a pattern in the time in which they decide to release this kind of information?



I dont know.


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## The Ronin

Rahil Ahmed said:


> You guys have any idea when the defense minister is going to release the next wave of information? Maybe in June?



PM and others barely talk about any defense procurement. They might only talk if any MP ask them anything in parliament or they might announce any big procurement in military parade or commissioning ceremony. Except those you have to rely on DGDP, ISPR and local news sources.


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## mb444

Defense procurement is a secret and it should be. Personally if it was up to me they should be announced with maximum opacity only once the assets have been delivered.

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## Michael Corleone

Guys, anyone known about a video showing wind tunnel of the new jet laboratory in bangladesh?


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Guys, anyone known about a video showing wind tunnel of the new jet laboratory in bangladesh?



Is this the one you are talking about? Probably not i guess.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Is this the one you are talking about? Probably not i guess.


aha, well i'm not sure if it's here or the BAC itself but there's more goodies 
i don;t want to excite people with news but something good will happen soon...

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> aha, well i'm not sure if it's here or the BAC itself but there's more goodies
> i don;t want to excite people with news but something good will happen soon...


I don't think there is much room for improvement for BAF given they have already procured MiG-35s, Su-30s/35s, Gripens, EFTs and J-10A/B/Cs. For reasons of national security they have hidden them all in Khan baba's basement.

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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> I don't think there is much room for improvement for BAF given they have already procured MiG-35s, Su-30s/35s, Gripens, EFTs and J-10A/B/Cs. For reasons of national security they have hidden them all in Khan baba's basement.



LOL!


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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> I don't think there is much room for improvement for BAF given they have already procured MiG-35s, Su-30s/35s, Gripens, EFTs and J-10A/B/Cs. For reasons of national security they have hidden them all in Khan baba's basement.


lol, must be a big basement. why am i not invited :/


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## SABRE

So, still no decision on the future fighter? I thought the decision was due 1.5 months back.

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## UKBengali

SABRE said:


> So, still no decision on the future fighter? I thought the decision was due 1.5 months back.




My guess is that BAF was going to go for an order of Mig-35 and SU-30 as alluded to @Michael Corleone, but the US sanctions on Russia have put paid to that.

Some kind of Western/Chinese mix now seems like the only feasible option.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> My guess is that BAF was going to go for an order of Mig-35 and SU-30 as alluded to @Michael Corleone, but the US sanctions on Russia have put paid to that.
> 
> Some kind of Western/Chinese mix now seems like the only feasible option.


yes, this is more likely... actually about the EFTs, Khan told me about them right when the sanctions were put in place... and later he told everyone... but i was and still am somewhat skeptical. atleast back then i thought he's gone mad but i didn't tell him or anyone anything because i myself have no solid proof of it working or not.. 
haven't talked to him in a long time but will ask him about it


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## Avicenna

Fun fact.

The sponser of CAATSA is an advocate for Bangladesh regarding the Rohingya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countering_America's_Adversaries_Through_Sanctions_Act






He has taken the position that it was genocide.

Another fun fact.

The costs for a de novo user of the latest block F-16 is around 1.6 billion USD for 8 examples.

https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/bulgaria-f-16cd-block-7072-aircraft-support

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Another fun fact.
> 
> The costs for a de novo user of the latest block F-16 is around 1.6 billion USD for 8 examples.
> 
> https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/bulgaria-f-16cd-block-7072-aircraft-support




So 200 million US dollars for each F-16 and this includes everything including missiles, bombs, training, infrastructure and maintenance services.

This compares favourably with the Euro-canards that are around 250 million dollars per plane for the same package.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> So 200 million US dollars for each F-16 and this includes everything including missiles, bombs, training, infrastructure and maintenance services.
> 
> This compares favourably with the Euro-canards that are around 250 million dollars per plane for the same package.



So the example in this case is Bulgaria who is transitioning from Mig-29 and Mig-21(although I think they are retired already?) to the F-16.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Bulgarian_military_aircraft

NO American infrastructure in place and thus a fresh start.

Much like Bangladesh theoretically if it were to choose the same route.

So 8 for 1.6b.

Extrapolate to 16 for about 3 billion.

So its gonna cost Bangaldesh about 3 billion for a full strength squadron of Block 70/72 F-16 based on a real world example.

Or stick to the 8. 

I would rather have 8 Block 70/72 for 1.6b than 12 Su-30SME variant for about 1b.

Bangladesh can always buy in batches.

And with the F-16 you really only need 2 or 3 squadrons 32-48 aircraft total.

So for 3 squadrons (48 aircraft) extrapolate out to about 9 billion.

Anyways, I was just bored.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> So the example in this case is Bulgaria who is transitioning from Mig-29 and Mig-21(although I think they are retired already?) to the F-16.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Bulgarian_military_aircraft
> 
> NO American infrastructure in place and thus a fresh start.
> 
> Much like Bangladesh theoretically if it were to choose the same route.
> 
> So 8 for 1.6b.
> 
> Extrapolate to 16 for about 3 billion.
> 
> So its gonna cost Bangaldesh about 3 billion for a full strength squadron of Block 70/72 F-16 based on a real world example.
> 
> Or stick to the 8.
> 
> I would rather have 8 Block 70/72 for 1.6b than 12 Su-30SME variant for about 1b.
> 
> Bangladesh can always buy in batches.
> 
> And with the F-16 you really only need 2 or 3 squadrons 32-48 aircraft total.
> 
> So for 3 squadrons (48 aircraft) extrapolate out to about 9 billion.
> 
> Anyways, I was just bored.




Yep, Block 70 would be a truly awesome machine that could knock out anything that Myanmar has with ease.

BAF can afford the plane but not sure if USA would release this version to BD, even though US has already urged BD to buy weapons from it.

I actually think that BAF will somehow now end up with small numbers of Typhoons as it's options are rather limited now with USA sanctions on Russia and that is an even better plane than F-16 Block 70. Anything to stay out of the US eco-system suits me.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Yep, Block 70 would be a truly awesome machine that could knock out anything that Myanmar has with ease.
> 
> BAF can afford the plane but not sure if USA would release this version to BD, even though US has already urged BD to buy weapons from it.
> 
> I actually think that BAF will somehow now end up with small numbers of Typhoons as it's options are rather limited now with USA sanctions on Russia and that is an even better plane than F-16 Block 70. Anything to stay out of the US eco-system suits me.



I just want Bangladesh to buy a modern Western platform.

Learn to employ it effectively and more generally for the BAF to have some sort of resurrgence.

And perhaps most importnantly, to get meaningful Western political backing.

I really see Myanmar as being a problem going forward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/969_Movement

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/...yanmar-buddhists-wary-of-muslim-minority.html

https://elevenmyanmar.com/news/bangladesh-not-cooperating-with-myanmar-in-returnees-issue-minister

Their BS is not limited by international borders it seems.

It's best for Bangaldesh to be prepared with a neighbor such as this.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I just want Bangladesh to buy a modern Western platform.
> 
> Learn to employ it effectively and more generally for the BAF to have some sort of resurrgence.
> 
> And perhaps most importnantly, to get meaningful Western political backing.
> 
> I really see Myanmar as being a problem going forward.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/969_Movement
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/...yanmar-buddhists-wary-of-muslim-minority.html
> 
> https://elevenmyanmar.com/news/bangladesh-not-cooperating-with-myanmar-in-returnees-issue-minister
> 
> Their BS is not limited by international borders it seems.
> 
> It's best for Bangaldesh to be prepared with a neighbor such as this.




BD military is well aware of this pest in the neighbourhood and both the Army and Navy are preparing well for any future show-down with Myanmar.

BAF is in a bit of a pickle now, and a lot of it is due to incompetence on their part in the past. I am hopeful that within 2-3 years 1-2 squadrons of modern fighters will be joining the air-force to even the odds with MAF. As long as BAF can fend off the MAF, I am confident that BD will win any fight with Myanmar.


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## Arthur

Sorry to be bearer of BAD news (if they weren't doing bad enough already!!!).

No Fighter Induction before 2021. We may "MAY" see new fighters in 2021.

The nearest possible date for negotiations is in November this year & early next year. So guys, stop torturing your fineselves & have a nice long nap.

Ba bye.

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## Nilgiri

Arthur said:


> Sorry to be bearer of BAD news (if they weren't doing bad enough already!!!).
> 
> No Fighter Induction before 2020. We may "MAY" see new fighters in 2021.
> 
> The nearest possible date for negotiations is in November this year & early next year. So guys, stop torturing your fineselves & have a nice long nap.
> 
> Ba bye.





@Imran Khan @Game.Invade @Marine Rouge @Aung Zaya @bluesky 

All those pages of threads and big CERTAIN/CONFIRMED/SIGNED stuff.......leading to.........

We will now have more programming as usual of some random BAF ppl posing with brochures and cockpits.

This also btw is big reality check on BD economy to produce the actual deployable forex dollars w.r.t Taka GDP claim. Lot of BD People here don't get this (the govt can never be wrong on such things!)....but maybe they will later.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Extremely unfortunate for BD her entire defense is compromised!! She is at the mercy of her hostile neighbors. For a reason some folks remain ever ready to eat “grass” to have a smoothly oiled military machine to take on the 7x larger arch enemy from the _Eshep-i Sair _(companions of the fire) within a moment’s notice with a motto like - you won’t be able to surprise us but we’ll surprise you, we won’t think about to retaliate we will retaliate etc....

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## bluesky

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Extremely unfortunate for BD her entire defense is compromised!! She is at the mercy of her hostile neighbors. For a reason some folks remain ever ready to eat “grass” to have a smoothly oiled military machine to take on the arch enemy from the _Eshep-i Sair _(companions of the fire) within a moment’s notice with a motto like - you won’t be able to surprise us but we’ll surprise you, we won’t think about to retaliate we will retaliate etc....


Compromise is an essential element in life, politics, war, and international/regional relationship. It is no use to be inflexible when we are too weak economically. A large military power requires a large amount of wealth infusion in the military. We are doing step by step, slow and steady. The future will see it is a pragmatic policy.

We all are fond of telling the story of Plassey but know little about the *1764* *Battle of Buxar* between (British + Mir Zafar) and (Nawab Mir Qasim of Bengal + Emperor Shah Alam + Nawab of Lukhnow). Mir Qasim had not yet fully trained his troops in the European system with the help of French, Portuguese or Armenian trainers.

But, like other hotheaded Muslims, he initiated a quarrel that finally caused the defeat of the combined troops in 1764. It is the year when Bengal was lost that ultimately caused the entire Hindustan also to be lost to the British. 

Do you want this to be repeated? We should be thankful to get two chunks of land that are Muslim-majority. An immature fight will only cause their premature dismantling.


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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Sorry to be bearer of BAD news (if they weren't doing bad enough already!!!).
> 
> No Fighter Induction before 2021. We may "MAY" see new fighters in 2021.
> 
> The nearest possible date for negotiations is in November this year & early next year. So guys, stop torturing your fineselves & have a nice long nap.
> 
> Ba bye.



What is the source of this info?

And if true what do you think is the reason?


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## Imran Khan

Nilgiri said:


> @Imran Khan @Game.Invade @Marine Rouge @Aung Zaya @bluesky
> 
> All those pages of threads and big CERTAIN/CONFIRMED/SIGNED stuff.......leading to.........
> 
> We will now have more programming as usual of some random BAF ppl posing with brochures and cockpits.
> 
> This also btw is big reality check on BD economy to produce the actual deployable forex dollars w.r.t Taka GDP claim. Lot of BD People here don't get this (the govt can never be wrong on such things!)....but maybe they will later.


what happened early morning i thought BD got first batch of f-35 on eid day

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> what happened early morning i thought BD got first batch of f-35 on eid day



Laugh all you want now.

But be sure to pass the sweets when you see an F-16, Typhoon or Gripen in BAF livery in 2021+.

This delay may be indicative of something along those lines.

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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Laugh all you want now.
> 
> But be sure to pass the sweets when you see an F-16, Typhoon or Gripen in BAF livery in 2021+.
> 
> This delay may be indicative of something along those lines.


why should we wait for 2021 lets have sweets and fun tonight. @Nilgiri n tu bhi ja ghareeb insaan

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> why should we wait for 2021 lets have sweets and fun tonight
> 
> View attachment 563430
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> View attachment 563440



You should probably lay off the Jack.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> What is the source of this info?
> 
> And if true what do you think is the reason?


Deductions from official release & some math.

Look here, if even we finalise a Russian order this year, they will take atleast two years to complete with first delivery after one year.

So you have order at 2019, delivery starts at late 2020 or early 2021. Sukhoi is busy with Egyptian order, then you have Indonesian & Burmese order 

This timeline may get pushed further to first delivery in 2021 while delivery completes at 2023 if we go for Typhoons.

The fastest way here would be if we take the Russian offer and order Mig 29M like Egypt or old Su 27 from Sukhoi stock. This way we can start induction by mid to late 2020. 

Money was never the issue, BAF has just taken a 'গোদাই লস্করি চাল' here.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Deductions from official release & some math.
> 
> Look here, if even we finalise a Russian order this year, they will take atleast two years to complete with first delivery after one year.
> 
> So you have order at 2019, delivery starts at late 2020 or early 2021.
> 
> This timeline may get pushed further to first delivery ain 2021 while delivery completes at 2023 if we go for Typhoons.
> 
> The fastest way here would be if we take the Russian offer and order Mig 29 M or old Su 27 from Sukhoi stock. This way we can start induction by mid to late 2020.
> 
> Money was never the issue here, BAF has just taken a "গোদাই লস্করি চাল ' here.



I agree with you about the timing.

There’s no need to rush so long as the decision is the correct one.

In any case, other things need to be addressed as well before the arrival of the airplanes.

Such as taking care of infrastructure, support and training needs.

Also, what better 50th year birthday present for Bangladesh than some fancy new fighters.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I agree with you about the timing.
> 
> There’s no need to rush so long as the decision is the correct one.
> 
> In any case, other things need to be addressed as well before the arrival of the airplanes.
> 
> Such as taking care of infrastructure, support and training needs.
> 
> Also, what better 50th year birthday present for Bangladesh than some fancy new fighters.


You just drove the final nail with 50' th anniversary thing.

Anyway UK defence chief's visit is due in November, hope there will be some moving forward.

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## Armchair

It's quite embarrassing to see these childish responses and ridiculous claims here. Everytime some new plane is supposedly going to be procured and the members here act as if such and such plane has already been bought. 

It's sad to see Bengalis act like this. We need greater maturity. Try to see how people discuss in other threads, maybe you will learn something.

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## Avicenna

Armchair said:


> It's quite embarrassing to see these childish responses and ridiculous claims here. Everytime some new plane is supposedly going to be procured and the members here act as if such and such plane has already been bought.
> 
> It's sad to see Bengalis act like this. We need greater maturity. Try to see how people discuss in other threads, maybe you will learn something.



Get lost with your condescension.

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## Destranator

The saga of Amra Khan...

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Why don't you start contribute that way then? If you have nothing to contribute other than this 'holier than thou' attitude, you are just a troll.



This particular guy has limited knowledge based on his posts in other threads.

In any case, he is completely off base by his rude post here.

I know my level of knowledge and I believe you are well informed as well.

His condescension really pissed me off quite honestly.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> This particular guy has limited knowledge based on his posts in other threads.
> 
> In any case, he is completely off base by his rude post here.
> 
> I know my level of knowledge and I believe you are well informed as well.
> 
> His condescension really pissed me off quite honestly.


Let go, brother. Twenty nine days straight fasting had me at the edge there.

Eid Mubarak to all.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Let go, brother. Twenty nine days straight fasting had me at the edge there.
> 
> Eid Mubarak to all.



Yea man I broke with my response.

Gonna disengage from any negativity.

Eid Mubarak to all!

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## Bilal9

Bhaiera Ramzan shesh hoisey, ashen amra ongikar kori troll-der key 'ignore' korey dibo, don't respond to trolls.

If we Bangladeshis stop tagging and replying to trolls then they have no one to troll.

Let's 'ignore' these folks. 'Ignore' is the kiss of death for this idiots as when I 'ignore' someone they stop appearing in posts seen by me.

Let us stop wasting time with these idiots where they add nothing useful to our lives or knowledge.

*EID MUBARAK!! *

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## Zee-shaun

Imran Khan said:


> why should we wait for 2021 lets have sweets and fun tonight. @Nilgiri n tu bhi ja ghareeb insaan
> 
> View attachment 563430
> 
> 
> View attachment 563431
> 
> 
> View attachment 563432
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 563433
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 563441
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> 
> View attachment 563434
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> 
> View attachment 563435
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 563438
> 
> 
> View attachment 563437
> 
> View attachment 563439
> 
> 
> View attachment 563440


Best post of the century.

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> Bhaiera Ramzan shesh hoisey, ashen amra ongikar kori troll-der key 'ignore' korey dibo, don't respond to trolls.
> 
> If we Bangladeshis stop tagging and replying to trolls then they have no one to troll.
> 
> Let's 'ignore' these folks. 'Ignore' is the kiss of death for this idiots as when I 'ignore' someone they stop appearing in posts seen by me.
> 
> Let us stop wasting time with these idiots where they add nothing useful to our lives or knowledge.




A certain Tamil is getting very close to getting a permanent ignore from me.

He used to have some entertainment value but is now very repetitive and dull.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Get lost with your condescension.



I have my doubts whether this person is actually Bangladeshi or not. Pretty close to giving him an 'ignore'.



UKBengali said:


> A certain Tamil is getting very close to getting a permanent ignore from me.
> 
> He used to have some entertainment value but is now very repetitive and dull.



Aajkey bathroom a gesilam, dekhi arek Tamil oikhaney bosha, diner ordhek time e bathroom a katai.

Shalara je ki shosta dail ar ulta palta jinish khai bujhina. Sharadin paikhanai boisha thakey.

Shombhoboto Mashkolair dail er effect (toxicity).

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## Bengal71

Bilal9 said:


> I have my doubts whether this person is actually Bangladeshi or not. Pretty close to giving him an 'ignore'.
> 
> 
> 
> Aajkey bathroom a gesilam, dekhi arek Tamil oikhaney bosha, diner ordhek time e bathroom a katai.
> 
> Shalara je ki shosta dail ar ulta palta jinish khai bujhina. Sharadin paikhanai boisha thakey.
> 
> Shombhoboto Mashkolair dail er effect (toxicity).





Indian der vitor oder khabar shobchaite joghonno.

Ar gaye durgonder jonno Indian der je durnam hoise eitra pisone mul culprit tamilra. gondher chote oder shamne jawa jai na.


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## bluesky

*Eid Mubarak!!!*


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> *Eid Mubarak!!!*



Eid Mubarak!

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## Avicenna

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/480335-new-us-strategy-excludes-pakistan


June 4, 2019

*New US strategy excludes Pakistan*







WASHINGTON: In its effort to counter China and Russia's prospective influence in South Asia, the United States has introduced a new strategy that aims to strengthen economic and military ties with different countries in the region but excludes Pakistan altogether.

The strategy announced in a lengthy report identifies five South Asian countries as new allies and partners to achieve strategic objectives and for a more dynamic and distributed presence and access locations across the region. It says that the United States seeks to evolve its posture and balance key capabilities across South Asia, Southeast Asia, and Oceania.

"Within South Asia, we are working to operationalise our Major Defense Partnership with India, while pursuing emerging partnerships with Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Bangladesh, and Nepal," the report released by the Department of Defense says.

Calling Indo-Pacific as the Department of Defense’s priority theatre, the report titled 'Indo-Pacific Strategy Report: Preparedness, Partnerships, and Promoting a Networked Region' details that the US will also continue to strengthen security relationships with partners in Southeast Asia with countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia, and sustaining engagement with Brunei, Laos, and Cambodia.

The Indo-Pacific contributes two-thirds of global growth in gross domestic product (GDP) and accounts for 60 percent of global GDP. This region includes the world’s largest economies – the United States, China, and Japan – and six of the world’s fastest growing economies – India, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Nepal, and the Philippines. A quarter of US exports go to the Indo-Pacific, and exports to China and India have more than doubled over the past decade. This is made possible by free and open trade routes through the air, sea, land, space, and cyber commons that form the current global system, according to the report.

As history has demonstrated and the future necessitates, the United States will continue to play a key role as a force for regional stability in the Indo-Pacific in support of US diplomatic and economic aspirations, the report says suggesting that to do so, "the United States must be prepared by sustaining a credible combat-forward posture; strengthening alliances and building new partnerships; and promoting an increasingly networked region. These actions will enable the United States to preserve a free and open Indo-Pacific where sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity are safeguarded."

According to the report, the National Security Strategy and the National Defence Strategy articulate the vision to compete, deter, and win in this environment. "Achieving this vision requires combining a more lethal joint force with a more robust constellation of allies and partners. Increased investments in these imperatives will sustain American influence in the region to ensure favourable balances of power and safeguard the free and open international order," the report says.

As the region grows in population and economic weight, US strategy will adapt to ensure that the Indo-Pacific is increasingly a place of peace, stability, and growing prosperity – and not one of disorder, conflict, and predatory economics. Embedding these free and open principles will require efforts across the spectrum of our agencies and capabilities: diplomatic initiatives, governance capacity building, economic cooperation and commercial advocacy, and military cooperation.

"Our vision for a free and open Indo-Pacific recognises the linkages between economics, governance, and security that are part of the competitive landscape throughout the region, and that economic security is national security," the report further says adding that in order to achieve the vision, "we will uphold the rule of law, encourage resilience in civil society, and promote transparent governance – all of which expose malign influences that threaten economic development everywhere.

“Our vision aspires to a regional order in which independent nations can both defend their interests and compete fairly in the international marketplace. It is a vision which recognises that no one nation can or should dominate the Indo-Pacific. In recognition of the region’s need for greater investment, including infrastructure investment, the United States seeks to invigorate our development and finance institutions to enable us to become better, more responsive partners."

The report states that China has made one sided and opaque deals that are inconsistent with the principles of a free and open Indo-Pacific. In 2018, China announced the inclusion of the region in One Belt One Road as the “Polar Silk Road” and emphasised its self-declared status as a “Near-Arctic State.” China is also expanding its engagement and capabilities in the Antarctic, in particular by working to finalise a fifth research station, which will diversify its presence across the continent, the report said while stating other examples that in 2018, Bangladesh was forced to ban one of China’s major state firms for attempted bribery, and in the same year, Maldives’ finance minister stated that China was building infrastructure projects in the country at significantly inflated prices compared to what was previously agreed. Furthermore, a Chinese state-owned enterprise purchased operational control of Hambantota Port for 99 years, taking advantage of Sri Lanka’s need for cash when its government faced daunting external debt repayment obligations.

"The United States does not oppose China’s investment activities as long as they respect sovereignty and the rule of law, use responsible financing practices, and operate in a transparent and economically sustainable manner. The United States, however, has serious concerns with China’s potential to convert unsustainable debt burdens of recipient countries or sub-national groups into strategic and military access, including by taking possession of sovereign assets as collateral. China’s coercive behaviour is playing out globally, from the Middle East and Africa to Latin America and Europe," the report says.

It further says that the Department of Defence supports choices that promote long-term peace and prosperity for all in the Indo-Pacific. "We will not accept policies or actions that threaten or undermine the rules-based international order – an order that benefits all nations. We are committed to defending and enhancing these shared values," according to the report.

*The purpose of posting this article has nothing to do with Pakistan for my purposes.

So please, trolls, don't start.

It is to illustrate the shifting sands in the geopolitical environment.

US and Western fighters may be in the cards and may account for the delay we are seeing.*

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## UKBengali

@Avicenna - I am willing to pay lip-service to USA for Gripen Es for BAF.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> @Avicenna - I am willing to pay lip-service to USA for Gripen Es for BAF.



Absolutely.

Anything Western.

Buying Chinese or Russian in the current politcal environment may turn out to be a huge mistake.

By purchasing from the West, you're buying politcal backing.

Not to mention Gripen, F-16, Typhoon are better platforms overall than their Russian and Chinese counterparts.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/480335-new-us-strategy-excludes-pakistan
> 
> 
> June 4, 2019
> 
> *New US strategy excludes Pakistan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON: In its effort to counter China and Russia's prospective influence in South Asia, the United States has introduced a new strategy that aims to strengthen economic and military ties with different countries in the region but excludes Pakistan altogether.
> 
> The strategy announced in a lengthy report identifies five South Asian countries as new allies and partners to achieve strategic objectives and for a more dynamic and distributed presence and access locations across the region. It says that the United States seeks to evolve its posture and balance key capabilities across South Asia, Southeast Asia, and Oceania.
> 
> "Within South Asia, we are working to operationalise our Major Defense Partnership with India, while pursuing emerging partnerships with Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Bangladesh, and Nepal," the report released by the Department of Defense says.
> 
> Calling Indo-Pacific as the Department of Defense’s priority theatre, the report titled 'Indo-Pacific Strategy Report: Preparedness, Partnerships, and Promoting a Networked Region' details that the US will also continue to strengthen security relationships with partners in Southeast Asia with countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia, and sustaining engagement with Brunei, Laos, and Cambodia.
> 
> The Indo-Pacific contributes two-thirds of global growth in gross domestic product (GDP) and accounts for 60 percent of global GDP. This region includes the world’s largest economies – the United States, China, and Japan – and six of the world’s fastest growing economies – India, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Nepal, and the Philippines. A quarter of US exports go to the Indo-Pacific, and exports to China and India have more than doubled over the past decade. This is made possible by free and open trade routes through the air, sea, land, space, and cyber commons that form the current global system, according to the report.
> 
> As history has demonstrated and the future necessitates, the United States will continue to play a key role as a force for regional stability in the Indo-Pacific in support of US diplomatic and economic aspirations, the report says suggesting that to do so, "the United States must be prepared by sustaining a credible combat-forward posture; strengthening alliances and building new partnerships; and promoting an increasingly networked region. These actions will enable the United States to preserve a free and open Indo-Pacific where sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity are safeguarded."
> 
> According to the report, the National Security Strategy and the National Defence Strategy articulate the vision to compete, deter, and win in this environment. "Achieving this vision requires combining a more lethal joint force with a more robust constellation of allies and partners. Increased investments in these imperatives will sustain American influence in the region to ensure favourable balances of power and safeguard the free and open international order," the report says.
> 
> As the region grows in population and economic weight, US strategy will adapt to ensure that the Indo-Pacific is increasingly a place of peace, stability, and growing prosperity – and not one of disorder, conflict, and predatory economics. Embedding these free and open principles will require efforts across the spectrum of our agencies and capabilities: diplomatic initiatives, governance capacity building, economic cooperation and commercial advocacy, and military cooperation.
> 
> "Our vision for a free and open Indo-Pacific recognises the linkages between economics, governance, and security that are part of the competitive landscape throughout the region, and that economic security is national security," the report further says adding that in order to achieve the vision, "we will uphold the rule of law, encourage resilience in civil society, and promote transparent governance – all of which expose malign influences that threaten economic development everywhere.
> 
> “Our vision aspires to a regional order in which independent nations can both defend their interests and compete fairly in the international marketplace. It is a vision which recognises that no one nation can or should dominate the Indo-Pacific. In recognition of the region’s need for greater investment, including infrastructure investment, the United States seeks to invigorate our development and finance institutions to enable us to become better, more responsive partners."
> 
> The report states that China has made one sided and opaque deals that are inconsistent with the principles of a free and open Indo-Pacific. In 2018, China announced the inclusion of the region in One Belt One Road as the “Polar Silk Road” and emphasised its self-declared status as a “Near-Arctic State.” China is also expanding its engagement and capabilities in the Antarctic, in particular by working to finalise a fifth research station, which will diversify its presence across the continent, the report said while stating other examples that in 2018, Bangladesh was forced to ban one of China’s major state firms for attempted bribery, and in the same year, Maldives’ finance minister stated that China was building infrastructure projects in the country at significantly inflated prices compared to what was previously agreed. Furthermore, a Chinese state-owned enterprise purchased operational control of Hambantota Port for 99 years, taking advantage of Sri Lanka’s need for cash when its government faced daunting external debt repayment obligations.
> 
> "The United States does not oppose China’s investment activities as long as they respect sovereignty and the rule of law, use responsible financing practices, and operate in a transparent and economically sustainable manner. The United States, however, has serious concerns with China’s potential to convert unsustainable debt burdens of recipient countries or sub-national groups into strategic and military access, including by taking possession of sovereign assets as collateral. China’s coercive behaviour is playing out globally, from the Middle East and Africa to Latin America and Europe," the report says.
> 
> It further says that the Department of Defence supports choices that promote long-term peace and prosperity for all in the Indo-Pacific. "We will not accept policies or actions that threaten or undermine the rules-based international order – an order that benefits all nations. We are committed to defending and enhancing these shared values," according to the report.
> 
> *The purpose of posting this article has nothing to do with Pakistan for my purposes.
> 
> So please, trolls, don't start.
> 
> It is it to illustrate the shifting sands in the geopolitical environment.
> 
> US and Western fighters may be in the cards and may account for the delay we are seeing.*


US has to exclude PK as it is now fully aligned with China.

BDs economy is western based. We should maintain strategic distance but for BAF we should go western. For BN for the time being stay with china. For BA buy from everyone. 

We need to focus on developing own internal capacity. We can not rely on anyone else.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Anything Western.
> 
> Buying Chinese or Russian in the current politcal environment may turn out to be a huge mistake.
> 
> By purchasing from the West, you're buying politcal backing.
> 
> Not to mention Gripen, F-16, Typhoon are better platforms overall than their Russian and Chinese counterparts.




Out of F-16 Block 70/72, I would prefer Gripen E as it is better(slightly) at air-to-air due to delta canard configuration and Meteor BVRAAM. It also can be seamlessly integrated with the brand new Sabb Global Eye for AWACS requirements.
BAF has no need for the multitude of air to ground munitions that come with F-16 as it needs a fighter mainly for air-to-air and plus the Gripen E is cheaper to run and less capability for US blackmail/pressure as the munitions will mainly be EU.
Maybe time for BD to try it's luck and seriously go for Gripen E as Sweden would be very interested in an order for 32-40 fighters.



mb444 said:


> US has to exclude PK as it is now fully aligned with China.
> 
> BDs economy is western based. We should maintain strategic distance but for BAF we should go western. For BN for the time being stay with china. For BA buy from everyone.
> 
> We need to focus on developing own internal capacity. We can not rely on anyone else.





Agree apart from going fully with China for BN.

Probably not a good idea to equip the next generation frigates with Chinese sensors as BN needs total freedom to track, engage and destroy Myanmar targets on land, sea and air.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Out of F-16 Block 70/72, I would prefer Gripen E as it is better(slightly) at air-to-air due to delta canard configuration and Meteor BVRAAM. It also can be seamlessly integrated with the brand new Sabb Global Eye for AWACS requirements.
> BAF has no need for the multitude of air to ground munitions that come with F-16 as it needs a fighter mainly for air-to-air and plus the Gripen E is cheaper to run and less capability for US blackmail/pressure as the munitions will mainly be EU.
> Maybe time for BD to try it's luck and seriously go for Gripen E as Sweden would be very interested in an order for 32-40 fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree apart from going fully with China for BN.
> 
> Probably not a good idea to equip the next generation frigates with Chinese sensors as BN needs total freedom to track, engage and destroy Myanmar targets on land, sea and air.


Cant argue with that.... We should not completely abandon china given the overbearing presence of india in the neighbourhood. We need to keep everyone on board whist forging our own way and maintaining our own interest.

China has no leverage...we buy from them, they buy hardly anything from us. We need to use their expertise and learn where we can. 

Should not underestimate china that they do provide hardware cheap although they are not yet western quality. 

Between china and BD it should be about business with options for strategic alignment if they accomodate our requirements and geo strategic interests align. Remember china is in our neighbourhood whilst the west is not. We should spead our eggs around and keep everyone on board.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Cant argue with that.... We should not completely abandon china given the overbearing presence of india in the neighbourhood. We need to keep everyone on board whist forging our own way and maintaining our own interest.
> 
> China has no leverage...we buy from them, they buy hardly anything from us. We need to use their expertise and learn where we can.
> 
> Should not underestimate china that they do provide hardware cheap although they are not yet western quality.
> 
> Between china and BD it should be about business with options for strategic alignment if they accomodate our requirements and geo strategic interests align. Remember china is in our neighbourhood whilst the west is not. We should spead our eggs around and keep everyone on board.



Bangaldesh can not afford to detach from China.

Rather I'm just saying plan for a scenario where the next conflict with Myanmar will be where China and Russia are actively backing Myanmar.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Bangaldesh can not afford to detach from China.
> 
> Rather I'm just saying plan for a scenario where the next conflict with Myanmar will be where China and Russia are actively backing Myanmar.


Absolutely, forge alliance with the west against the simian conglomerate and china-pk for india. We also need to foster good relationship with the likes of indonesia and malaysia as well as turkey and the wider muslim block.

BD needs to aggressively foster relationships. We currently have no one watching our back. We will have no one in the long run either but we need to strengthen ourselves and press advantage where we can.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Absolutely, forge alliance with the west against the simian conglomerate and china-pk for india. We also need to foster good relationship with the likes of indonesia and malaysia ascwell as turkey and the wider muslim block.
> 
> BD needs to aggressively foster relationships. We currently have no one watching our back. We will have no one in the long run either but we need to strengthen ourselves and press advantage where we can.



Absolutely fantastic post!

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## Arthur

Our recent move to get closer with ASEAN Muslim countries seems to align with this recent development at DC.

Which is good. We should look for good allies who will back us no matter what. 

'Loving all, marrying none' will only give one a player's reputation. Not so desirable.

P.S. I am not saying we become like Mike Pence. There is seemingly lota way to maintain respectable working relation with all.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Bhaiera Ramzan shesh hoisey, ashen amra ongikar kori troll-der key 'ignore' korey dibo, don't respond to trolls.
> 
> If we Bangladeshis stop tagging and replying to trolls then they have no one to troll.
> 
> Let's 'ignore' these folks. 'Ignore' is the kiss of death for this idiots as when I 'ignore' someone they stop appearing in posts seen by me.
> 
> Let us stop wasting time with these idiots where they add nothing useful to our lives or knowledge.
> 
> *EID MUBARAK!! *


qiyam ar taraweeh er namaze dua korsen?


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## LKJ86



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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Bangaldesh can not afford to detach from China.
> 
> Rather I'm just saying plan for a scenario where the next conflict with Myanmar will be where China and Russia are actively backing Myanmar.



Arms-vendors will always align with their despot regime clients rather than with states interested in lifting their populace. It is a matter of degrees. Not many of these despotic regimes left (Cuba, NK, Myanmar and some countries in Africa and South America) but they are all voracious consumers of arms (at the expense of their downtrodden populace), with arms purchases sometimes amounting to more than 50% of their state budgets, which is (as illustrated in Myanmar's SLORC/SPDC case) solely designed to line the pockets of retired senior army functionaries who control these sh*tholes. Unlike countries with better principles, these two states will sell arms to just about any despot.



Michael Corleone said:


> qiyam ar taraweeh er namaze dua korsen?



Shob Namazei apnader jonno dua kori bhai. Apnara jatey trollder tag kora bandho koren.



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 564091
> View attachment 564092



Thanks. Should we be forever grateful that you decided to take our money to sell us something? 

I'd suggest you post some pictures of China supplied stuff in the Myanmar forum - as we are past the stage of F-7's now, and as Pakistan was a decade ago. The Tatmadaw folks don't have anyone covering their back in the world except the CCP.

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## The Ronin

#Composite_Shot.

BAF Mi-171Sh flying over Central African Republic

PC- Shadman Al Samee

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## Arthur

So we retired 32 F-6 fighters (SQ 8 & 21) in 2000, which is still to be replaced.

By 2025 we will have another 36 F-7 BG/I ready to be retired.

Post 2020 Migs too will need a replacement at Pipeline. 

Still no suitable replacement at horizon.

WTH going on in their mind?

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> So we retired 32 F-6 fighters (SQ 8 & 21) in 2000, which is still to be replaced.
> 
> By 2025 we will have another 36 F-7 BG/I ready to be retired.
> 
> Post 2020 Migs too will need a replacement at Pipeline.
> 
> Still no suitable replacement at horizon.
> 
> WTH going on in their mind?



My take is that Russian sanctions and Rohingya issue has put paid to the plans of BAF over the last decade.
The new plan is being forced to have a Western component and so may inadvertently make the BAF a much better force in the end.

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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> My take is that Russian sanctions and Rohingya issue has put paid to the plans of BAF over the last decade.
> The new plan is being forced to have a Western component and so may inadvertently make the BAF a much better force in the end.


But shouldn't they declare a concrete timetable at least? 

Their actions at the moment is concerning to put it mildly.

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> But shouldn't they declare a concrete timetable at least?
> 
> Their actions at the moment is concerning to put it mildly.



Whichever way Chinese fighters would be required for India and so BAF needs to pull it's finger out and order the export version of J-10C immediately.


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## Doctor Strange

I had known back in 2001-06 time, Indian air force offered protection to BD airspace. That time Indian air force used to regularly violate BD airspace. As a bossom friend of India, this regime may marry those ideas with open hands. What can go in some potent mind is that, if BD have some platforms which can really stop Indian invasion that can cause trouble for their own existence in BD.

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## monitor



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## Tamiyah

Are there any replacements of old ready to be retired aircrafts of BAF ?


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## mb444

Arthur said:


> So we retired 32 F-6 fighters (SQ 8 & 21) in 2000, which is still to be replaced.
> 
> By 2025 we will have another 36 F-7 BG/I ready to be retired.
> 
> Post 2020 Migs too will need a replacement at Pipeline.
> 
> Still no suitable replacement at horizon.
> 
> WTH going on in their mind?


Mind is empty....no planning, no capability, an embarrassment. Its time to disband and relaunch...


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## Bilal9

Doctor Strange said:


> I had known back in 2001-06 time, Indian air force offered protection to BD airspace. That time Indian air force used to regularly violate BD airspace. As a bossom friend of India, this regime may marry those ideas with open hands. What can go in some potent mind is that, if BD have some platforms which can really stop Indian invasion that can cause trouble for their own existence in BD.



Saying yes to 'Indian AF protection' for Bangladesh is a surefire formula for Hasina to ask for a coup-d'etat and regime change.

I am sure she knows this.

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## Avicenna

http://www.airforcemag.com/Features...trategy-Indo-Pacific-is-Priority-Theater.aspx

Interesting article.

I guess Bangladesh is categorized with Nepal, Maldives, and Sri Lanka.

*News*
*New DOD Strategy: Indo-Pacific is “Priority Theater”*
6/3/2019
—AMY MCCULLOUGH





USAF TSgt. Adam Decker, south aerospace ground equipment section chief assigned to the 18th Equipment Maintenance Squadron, demonstrates how to use the hydraulic test stand during a bilateral training exercise with the Japan Air Self-Defense Force on May 23, 2019, on Kadena AB, Japan. _Air Force photo by A1C Cynthia Belío._



The Indo-Pacific is the Defense Department’s “priority theater,” but the US military’s advantage over countries such as China and Russia—which are looking to increase interest and influence in the region—is “eroding,” forcing the department to re-evaluate its posture and strategic objectives in the area and placing an even greater emphasis on strengthening partnerships, according to DOD’s first Indo-Pacific strategy report.

“A negative shift in the regional balance of power could encourage competitors to challenge and subvert the free and open order that supports prosperity and security for the United States and its allies and partners,” reads the report. “To address this challenge, DOD is developing a more lethal, resilient, and rapidly innovating Joint Force, and is increasing collaboration with a robust constellation of allies and partners.”

In order to better prepare the joint force, DOD plans to modernize advanced training facilities at the Joint Pacific Alaska Range Complex “to present a more realistic and representative training environment;” improve unit and depot maintenance as it works to reach former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’ 80 percent readiness target; and it’s investing in advanced missile defense systems that are compatible with Japanese and Australian systems.

The department also plans to purchase a total of 110 fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft to improve capability and capacity across the force, as well as 400 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles, 400 of the extend-range Joint Air to Surface Missiles, as well as additional Long Range Anti-Ship Missiles and Maritime Strike Tactical Warfare Tomahawks for the US Navy.

The strategy calls for additional resources to support offensive and defensive cyberspace operations, and “efforts to unify, focus, and accelerate the development of space doctrine, capabilities, and expertise to outpace future threats, institutionalize advocacy of space priorities, and further build space warfighting culture.”

Today there are more than 370,000 airmen, soldiers, sailors, and marines operating in the theater, along with more than 2,000 aircraft and 200 ships and submarines. However, a significant number of these forces are operating from Japan, South Korea, and Guam. The strategy calls on DOD to evolve its posture and further distribute its presence and access to other locations throughout the theater.

“In order to overcome the tyranny of distance, posture that supports and enables inter- and intra-theater logistics must be flexible and resilient, and the pre-positioning of equipment is critical,” states the report.

In addition, the department is “exploring expeditionary capabilities,” such as:

Dynamic basing of USAF and maritime forces
Special Operations Forces that can conduct both irregular and unconventional warfare
Cyber and space teams well versed in multi-domain operations
“Unique intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities”
Anti-submarine capabilities.
The United States continues to strengthen existing alliances with Japan, South Korea, Australia, the Philippines, and Thailand, while looking to expand partnerships with Singapore, Taiwan, New Zealand, Mongolia, and India. The strategy notes the department also hopes to pursue emerging partnerships with Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Bangladesh, and Nepal, as well as security relationships with Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia.

In his speech at the IISS Shangri-La Dialogue on June 1, Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan outlined the new strategy and emphasized the United States’ commitment to the region, but he also called on allies and partners to invest more in their own defense and the defense of the region.

''The Indo-Pacific is our priority theater,'' he said. ''We are where we belong. We are investing in this region. We are investing in you, and with you, and we need you to invest further in yourselves. We need you to invest in ways that take more control of your sovereignty and your ability to exercise sovereign choices.''

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2019/June 2019/New-DOD-Strategy-Indo-Pacific-is-Priority-Theater.aspx
> 
> Interesting article.
> 
> I guess Bangladesh is categorized with Nepal, Maldives, and Sri Lanka.
> 
> *News*
> *New DOD Strategy: Indo-Pacific is “Priority Theater”*
> 6/3/2019
> —AMY MCCULLOUGH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USAF TSgt. Adam Decker, south aerospace ground equipment section chief assigned to the 18th Equipment Maintenance Squadron, demonstrates how to use the hydraulic test stand during a bilateral training exercise with the Japan Air Self-Defense Force on May 23, 2019, on Kadena AB, Japan. _Air Force photo by A1C Cynthia Belío._
> 
> 
> 
> The Indo-Pacific is the Defense Department’s “priority theater,” but the US military’s advantage over countries such as China and Russia—which are looking to increase interest and influence in the region—is “eroding,” forcing the department to re-evaluate its posture and strategic objectives in the area and placing an even greater emphasis on strengthening partnerships, according to DOD’s first Indo-Pacific strategy report.
> 
> “A negative shift in the regional balance of power could encourage competitors to challenge and subvert the free and open order that supports prosperity and security for the United States and its allies and partners,” reads the report. “To address this challenge, DOD is developing a more lethal, resilient, and rapidly innovating Joint Force, and is increasing collaboration with a robust constellation of allies and partners.”
> 
> In order to better prepare the joint force, DOD plans to modernize advanced training facilities at the Joint Pacific Alaska Range Complex “to present a more realistic and representative training environment;” improve unit and depot maintenance as it works to reach former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’ 80 percent readiness target; and it’s investing in advanced missile defense systems that are compatible with Japanese and Australian systems.
> 
> The department also plans to purchase a total of 110 fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft to improve capability and capacity across the force, as well as 400 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles, 400 of the extend-range Joint Air to Surface Missiles, as well as additional Long Range Anti-Ship Missiles and Maritime Strike Tactical Warfare Tomahawks for the US Navy.
> 
> The strategy calls for additional resources to support offensive and defensive cyberspace operations, and “efforts to unify, focus, and accelerate the development of space doctrine, capabilities, and expertise to outpace future threats, institutionalize advocacy of space priorities, and further build space warfighting culture.”
> 
> Today there are more than 370,000 airmen, soldiers, sailors, and marines operating in the theater, along with more than 2,000 aircraft and 200 ships and submarines. However, a significant number of these forces are operating from Japan, South Korea, and Guam. The strategy calls on DOD to evolve its posture and further distribute its presence and access to other locations throughout the theater.
> 
> “In order to overcome the tyranny of distance, posture that supports and enables inter- and intra-theater logistics must be flexible and resilient, and the pre-positioning of equipment is critical,” states the report.
> 
> In addition, the department is “exploring expeditionary capabilities,” such as:
> Dynamic basing of USAF and maritime forces
> Special Operations Forces that can conduct both irregular and unconventional warfare
> Cyber and space teams well versed in multi-domain operations
> “Unique intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities”
> Anti-submarine capabilities.
> The United States continues to strengthen existing alliances with Japan, South Korea, Australia, the Philippines, and Thailand, while looking to expand partnerships with Singapore, Taiwan, New Zealand, Mongolia, and India. The strategy notes the department also hopes to pursue emerging partnerships with Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Bangladesh, and Nepal, as well as security relationships with Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia.
> 
> In his speech at the IISS Shangri-La Dialogue on June 1, Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan outlined the new strategy and emphasized the United States’ commitment to the region, but he also called on allies and partners to invest more in their own defense and the defense of the region.
> 
> ''The Indo-Pacific is our priority theater,'' he said. ''We are where we belong. We are investing in this region. We are investing in you, and with you, and we need you to invest further in yourselves. We need you to invest in ways that take more control of your sovereignty and your ability to exercise sovereign choices.''


The Communist Regime & it's lap dogs are about to face the wrath.

Since The US of A has taken a point with them, honeymoon period is over. lol


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## Nilgiri

Arthur said:


> The Communist Regime & it's lap dogs are about to face the wrath.
> 
> Since The US of A has taken a point with them, honeymoon period is over. lol



@Dungeness @CHN Bamboo @GeraltofRivia @TaiShang @Feng Leng @long_ 

BD STRONK! BD Cheerlead STRONK!

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> @Dungeness @CHN Bamboo @GeraltofRivia @TaiShang @Feng Leng @long_
> 
> BD STRONK! BD Cheerlead STRONK!



Why are you even here man?

Isn't there like a Tamil message board?

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Why are you even here man?
> 
> Isn't there like a Tamil message board?



Why are you crying? Go bitch to the mods to make this a BD member only thread if you want.

Till then the reality of what you are will be exposed to everyone with only the slightest effort.

A huge deal already shown given the israelis dont hang around forums of ppl they say commited a genocide on them. Neither do the Armenians or anyone else.

Only one group of utterly shameless people in the world hold both ends of a claimed genocide and active participation in forum run by who they shout each moment are the perpetrators.

Then such weird stockholm syndrome degenerates talk about other's morals, regimes and lap dogs.

Truly funny to see.

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Why are you crying? Go bitch to the mods to make this a BD member only thread if you want.
> 
> Till then the reality of what you are will be exposed to everyone with only the slightest effort.
> 
> A huge deal already shown given the israelis dont hang around forums of ppl they say commited a genocide on them. Neither do the Armenians or anyone else.
> 
> Only one group of utterly shameless people in the world hold both ends of a claimed genocide and active participation in forum run by who they shout each moment are the perpetrators.
> 
> Then such weird stockholm syndrome degenerates talk about other's morals, regimes and lap dogs.
> 
> Truly funny to see.



LOL.

Nevermind.

Keep posting.

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## Avicenna

https://airforcesmonthly.keypublish...n-eurofighter-proposal-submitted-to-bulgaria/

https://dsm.forecastinternational.c...needed-to-keep-line-open-into-the-late-2020s/

In reference to the UK helping with MRCA requirement of BAF.

Apparently Italian Tranche 1 are also available as per this offer to Bulgaria for 8 examples.

Of course Bulgaria went for the Block 70/72 instead.

But yea, it looks like Tranche 1, either from UK or Italy are available.

At the very least, the air to air mission for the BAF would be helped by such an acquistion.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> https://airforcesmonthly.keypublish...n-eurofighter-proposal-submitted-to-bulgaria/
> 
> https://dsm.forecastinternational.c...needed-to-keep-line-open-into-the-late-2020s/
> 
> In reference to the UK helping with MRCA requirement of BAF.
> 
> Apparently Italian Tranche 1 are also available as per this offer to Bulgaria for 8 examples.
> 
> Of course Bulgaria went for the Block 70/72 instead.
> 
> But yea, it looks like Tranche 1, either from UK or Italy are available.
> 
> At the very least, the air to air mission for the BAF would be helped by such an acquistion.



Unfortunately, being available to Bulgaria does not necessarily translate to being offered to BAF.
We seem to be reading too much into a vague, throwaway courtesy statement made by the UK delegation regarding "helping BAF procure MRCAs" thanks to the hype created by the usual BD internet clowns.

If the UK were serious they would make offers straight up instead of whispering into Khan baba's ears.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Unfortunately, being available to Bulgaria does not necessarily translate to being offered to BAF.
> We seem to be reading too much into a vague, throwaway courtesy statement made by the UK delegation regarding "helping BAF procure MRCAs" thanks to the hype created by the usual BD internet clowns.
> 
> If the UK were serious they would make offers straight up instead of whispering into Khan baba's ears.




BAF needs to ask first and then UK will respond with an offer.

There is no good reason why UK will not sell Typhoon to BD as long as BD is able to pay.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> BAF needs to ask first and then UK will respond with an offer.
> 
> There is no good reason why UK will not sell Typhoon to BD as long as BD is able to pay.



Exactly but the question is would the lazy imbeciles ask in the first place?


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## JohnWick

UKBengali said:


> BAF needs to ask first and then UK will respond with an offer.
> 
> There is no good reason why UK will not sell Typhoon to BD as long as BD is able to pay.


As a matter of fact you do not have an airforce
Collection of 8 fat turkey mig-29
World most crashed and shoot down aircraft not make an air force .....

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1171970756313166









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2250688778312969

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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> As a matter of fact you do not have an airforce
> Collection of 8 fat turkey mig-29
> World most crashed and shoot down aircraft not make an air force .....



Agree with you completely.

It's not an acceptable situation.

And hopefully, it will be addressed sooner rather than later.



Al-Ansar said:


> Unfortunately, being available to Bulgaria does not necessarily translate to being offered to BAF.
> We seem to be reading too much into a vague, throwaway courtesy statement made by the UK delegation regarding "helping BAF procure MRCAs" thanks to the hype created by the usual BD internet clowns.
> 
> If the UK were serious they would make offers straight up instead of whispering into Khan baba's ears.



I agree with you.

But that wasnt the point I was trying to make.

The points I wanted to make:

1)Used Typhoons are available to be purchased both from UK and Italy. They are looking to phase them out. Fact.

2)Even if they are Tranche 1 and updated to Block 5, apparently they will be able to carry up to -C5 AMRAAMS.

3)Ground attack capability is profoundly limited and these planes will not be upgradble in a financially feasible manner.

4)However, in the air to air roles, 8-12 Typhoons in BAF would be a major upgrade in capability. Obviously!

5)In order to take advantage, BD needs to start working to make this happen. (You are completely correct about this)

6)Apart from the UK, BD needs to engage the US into allowing access to the AMRAAM and later model Sidewinders.

7)This could possible be seen as a defensive purchase, and could perhaps be justified and approved.

8)BAF needs to do something. When the Flankers come and JF-17 are fully delivered, MyAF will have a major advantage over BAF. Likely with several types of BVR munitions; SD-10, R-27, and perhaps R-77. BAF is seriously outgunned.

9)Final point, I have no confidence in how BD leadership is handling this. I think they are understimating the threat Mynamar poses for the short and medium term. However, of course we on PDF dont know the dynamics and reality of what is really going on behind closed doors.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I agree with you.
> 
> But that wasnt the point I was trying to make.
> 
> The points I wanted to make:
> 
> 1)Used Typhoons are available to be purchased both from UK and Italy. They are looking to phase them out. Fact.
> 
> 2)Even if they are Tranche 1 and updated to Block 5, apparently they will be able to carry up to -C5 AMRAAMS.
> 
> 3)Ground attack capability is profoundly limited and these planes will not be upgradble in a financially feasible manner.
> 
> 4)However, in the air to air roles, 8-12 Typhoons in BAF would be a major upgrade in capability. Obviously!
> 
> 5)In order to take advantage, BD needs to start working to make this happen. (You are completely correct about this)
> 
> 6)Apart from the UK, BD needs to engage the US into allowing access to the AMRAAM and later model Sidewinders.
> 
> 7)This could possible be seen as a defensive purchase, and could perhaps be justified and approved.
> 
> 8)BAF needs to do something. When the Flankers come and JF-17 are fully delivered, MyAF will have a major advantage over BAF. Likely with several types of BVR munitions; SD-10, R-27, and perhaps R-77. BAF is seriously outgunned.
> 
> 9)Final point, I have no confidence in how BD leadership is handling this. I think they are understimating the threat Mynamar poses for the short and medium term. However, of course we on PDF dont know the dynamics and reality of what is really going on behind closed doors.




Not sure on the wisdom of BAF purchasing Tranche 1 Typhoons and then equipping them with US weapons as then BD would be under US eco-system very much. It would be paying the same "life-cycle" costs as if it potentially approached the US for F-16Vs, which may be approved and that probably would be a better fighter due to the latest US AESA radar and other electronics.

If BD was to go down the Typhoon route, not only does it need the latest Tranche but it also needs to purchase EU arms(ASRAAM and Meteor AAMs) as then it would be free of US domination.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Not sure on the wisdom of BAF purchasing Tranche 1 Typhoons and then equipping them with US weapons as then BD would be under US eco-system very much. It would be paying the same "life-cycle" costs as if it potentially approached the US for F-16Vs, which may be approved and that probably would be a better fighter due to the latest US AESA radar and other electronics.
> 
> If BD was to go down the Typhoon route, not only does it need the latest Tranche but it also needs to purchase EU arms(ASRAAM and Meteor AAMs) as then it would be free of US domination.



Excellent points.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Not sure on the wisdom of BAF purchasing Tranche 1 Typhoons and then equipping them with US weapons as then BD would be under US eco-system very much. It would be paying the same "life-cycle" costs as if it potentially approached the US for F-16Vs, which may be approved and that probably would be a better fighter due to the latest US AESA radar and other electronics.
> 
> If BD was to go down the Typhoon route, not only does it need the latest Tranche but it also needs to purchase EU arms(ASRAAM and Meteor AAMs) as then it would be free of US domination.




Tranche 1 typhoon was designed to counter soviet threat in the 80's as interceptors.

Later tranche of typhoons were designed to be multirole.

If UK did make an offer and stated multirole then trance 1 is not in play here in my opinion.

However typhoons even trance 1 would be better than anything from the russians or the chinese in my opinion. BAF should go for it.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Tranche 1 typhoon was designed to counter soviet threat in the 80's as interceptors.
> 
> Later tranche of typhoons were designed to be multirole.
> 
> If UK did make an offer and stated multirole then trance 1 is not in play here in my opinion.
> 
> However typhoons even trance 1 would be better than anything from the russians or the chinese in my opinion. BAF should go for it.



Tranche 1 typhoons may not be that much superior to MAF Block 2 JF-17s and will be outgunned if the savages buy Block 3 later on. Also it will not be able to integrate the EU Meteor BVRAAM and so you end up going back into the arms of the US for the AMRAAM BVR missile. In this case may as well go to the US for F-16s.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Tranche 1 typhoons may not be that much superior to MAF Block 2 JF-17s and will be outgunned if the savages buy Block 3 later on. Also it will not be able to integrate the EU Meteor BVRAAM and so you end up going back into the arms of the US for the AMRAAM BVR missile. In this case may as well go to the US for F-16s.



I get your point. In my assessment and i will admit I am no professional but in my opinion tranche 1 tornado updated for sale today would be better than any version of the JF17.

Tranche 1 designed for speed and to fly low (pre stealth days) to get into russian airspace and engage before the russian fleet managed to cross the barents sea.

Tornadoes is some respect perfect. I agree regarding the armaments. If we are going to rely on US maybe go fully US. 

My personal prefernce would be to buy the tornadoes with full complement of british weaponry. One source would be easier to manage.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> I get your point. In my assessment and i will admit I am no professional but in my opinion tranche 1 tornado updated for sale today would be better than any version of the JF17.
> 
> Tranche 1 designed for speed and to fly low (pre stealth days) to get into russian airspace and engage before the russian fleet managed to cross the barents sea.
> 
> Tornadoes is some respect perfect. I agree regarding the armaments. If we are going to rely on US maybe go fully US.
> 
> My personal prefernce would be to buy the tornadoes with full complement of british weaponry. One source would be easier to manage.



Eh.

I think you have some things confused.

We're talking about Typhoons.

Tornados are out of the question.

Also, given all things, I think a country like Bangladesh would do well with 2 to 3 squadrons of a multirole type like the F-16 or Gripen coupled with Eireye or the like.

A second type could also be bought ideally i.e. J-10, really for diversity's sake.

I think as @UKBengali has stated, the plans to go Russian or Chinese has been altered somewhat with recent events and Western options are being entertained which is causing an unanticipated delay.

However, if this is the case, then its a blessing in disguise IMO.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Tornados are out of the question. IMO.



Why so? BAF has had extensive exposure to them and are therefore a natural fit.


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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> Why so? BAF has had extensive exposure to them and are therefore a natural fit.



Ahhhh....Tornados?

When did BAF have ANY exposure to Tornados?


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## TopCat

Al-Ansar said:


> Why so? BAF has had extensive exposure to them and are therefore a natural fit.


Tornado production line is closed since long.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Ahhhh....Tornados?
> 
> When did BAF have ANY exposure to Tornados?

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## Avicenna

TopCat said:


> Tornado production line is closed since long.



Exactly.

Also doesn't fit the mission.

Unless your talking the maritime strike mission like the German Navy (IDS version) carries out with theirs.

Even then, Tornados are long out of production and would likely be very expensive to operate and maintain.

And ADV versions are just not appropriate for Bangaldesh given what they were designed to do.

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## Bengal71

Al-Ansar said:


> View attachment 565101




That was cyclone not tornado.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Eh.
> 
> I think you have some things confused.
> 
> We're talking about Typhoons.
> 
> Tornados are out of the question.
> 
> Also, given all things, I think a country like Bangladesh would do well with 2 to 3 squadrons of a multirole type like the F-16 or Gripen coupled with Eireye or the like.
> 
> A second type could also be bought ideally i.e. J-10, really for diversity's sake.
> 
> I think as @UKBengali has stated, the plans to go Russian or Chinese has been altered somewhat with recent events and Western options are being entertained which is causing an unanticipated delay.
> 
> However, if this is the case, then its a blessing in disguise IMO.



Apologies you are correct. I miswrote tornado rather than typhoon.

Tornado yes.....had a long and glorious service but no longer fit for purpose for any air force.



Al-Ansar said:


> View attachment 565101


That was a tempest......imagine those in BD colours..... forelorn hope i know....

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> https://airforcesmonthly.keypublish...n-eurofighter-proposal-submitted-to-bulgaria/
> 
> https://dsm.forecastinternational.c...needed-to-keep-line-open-into-the-late-2020s/
> 
> In reference to the UK helping with MRCA requirement of BAF.
> 
> Apparently Italian Tranche 1 are also available as per this offer to Bulgaria for 8 examples.
> 
> Of course Bulgaria went for the Block 70/72 instead.
> 
> But yea, it looks like Tranche 1, either from UK or Italy are available.
> 
> At the very least, the air to air mission for the BAF would be helped by such an acquistion.


were you the one who was talking about limited upgrade potential of the tranche 1 systems and their higher maintenance cost? read someone talking about it don't remember when and where



UKBengali said:


> Not sure on the wisdom of BAF purchasing Tranche 1 Typhoons and then equipping them with US weapons as then BD would be under US eco-system very much. It would be paying the same "life-cycle" costs as if it potentially approached the US for F-16Vs, which may be approved and that probably would be a better fighter due to the latest US AESA radar and other electronics.
> 
> If BD was to go down the Typhoon route, not only does it need the latest Tranche but it also needs to purchase EU arms(ASRAAM and Meteor AAMs) as then it would be free of US domination.


good points


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> were you the one who was talking about limited upgrade potential of the tranche 1 systems and their higher maintenance cost? read someone talking about it don't remember when and where
> 
> 
> good points



Yea that was me.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Yea that was me.


i think @UKBengali proposal is perfect... ie go all in with US or fold

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## Avicenna

http://www.newagebd.net/article/75511/air-chief-leaves-for-france


*Air chief leaves for France *
Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka | Published: 01:02, Jun 16,2019




Chief of air staff Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat along with his spouse and three entourages left Dhaka for France on Saturday.

It was an official visit at the invitation of the chief of staff of the French Air Force General Philippe Lavigne, said in an ISPR press release.

During the visit, the chief of air staff of Bangladesh Air Force will attend ‘The 53rd International Paris Air Show-2019’.

Air chiefs of different countries and high officials from renowned institutes of military technology will take part in the International Paris Air Show, it added.

In the air show, the chief of air staff of Bangladesh Air Force will exchange views with the air chiefs of different countries and high officials from renowned institutes of military technology which will help develop bilateral relationship with other countries.

It will also help implement Forces Goal-2030 by increasing the dynamism in the process of induction and maintenance of modern technology in BAF, the release continued.

It is expected that this visit by the chief of air staff will play an important role in strengthening the existing relationship between French Air Force and Bangladesh Air Force.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> http://www.newagebd.net/article/75511/air-chief-leaves-for-france
> 
> 
> *Air chief leaves for France *
> Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka | Published: 01:02, Jun 16,2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chief of air staff Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat along with his spouse and three entourages left Dhaka for France on Saturday.
> 
> It was an official visit at the invitation of the chief of staff of the French Air Force General Philippe Lavigne, said in an ISPR press release.
> 
> During the visit, the chief of air staff of Bangladesh Air Force will attend ‘The 53rd International Paris Air Show-2019’.
> 
> Air chiefs of different countries and high officials from renowned institutes of military technology will take part in the International Paris Air Show, it added.
> 
> In the air show, the chief of air staff of Bangladesh Air Force will exchange views with the air chiefs of different countries and high officials from renowned institutes of military technology which will help develop bilateral relationship with other countries.
> 
> It will also help implement Forces Goal-2030 by increasing the dynamism in the process of induction and maintenance of modern technology in BAF, the release continued.
> 
> It is expected that this visit by the chief of air staff will play an important role in strengthening the existing relationship between French Air Force and Bangladesh Air Force.


It will help do **** all... at this point everyone has given up hope

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## Michael Corleone

Tbh if the fokira air force had money, it wouldn't take them this long... heck i reckon fokira air force can't buy jf-17s either

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Tbh if the fokira air force had money, it wouldn't take them this long... heck i reckon fokira air force can't buy jf-17s either



Disappointing man......


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Tbh if the fokira air force had money, it wouldn't take them this long... heck i reckon fokira air force can't buy jf-17s either




Really? - they signed an order for maybe up to 23 K-8Ws last June - for some strange reason they would not reveal the number. BAF has money as it can buy trainer after trainer and the YAk-130 is not exactly cheap.

@Avicenna

Edit - BD has a total defence budget of around 4.5-5 billion US dollars when arms imports are taken into account. Other countries with defence spending at this level are Malaysia, although historically it has been higher.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Really? - they signed an order for maybe up to 23 K-8Ws last June - for some strange reason they would not reveal the number. BAF has money as it can buy trainer after trainer and the YAk-130 is not exactly cheap.
> 
> @Avicenna
> 
> Edit - BD has a total defence budget of around 4.5-5 billion US dollars when arms imports are taken into account. Other countries with defence spending at this level are Malaysia, although historically it has been higher.



You can talk about budgets and ability to afford things until the cows come home.

In the end, show me the aircraft parked on Bangladeshi soil.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> You can talk about budgets and ability to afford things until the cows come home.
> 
> In the end, show me the aircraft parked on Bangladeshi soil.




My response was to say that it is not an affordability issue per se.

More a question of strategic thinking and general competence.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> My response was to say that it is not an affordability issue per se.
> 
> More a question of strategic thinking and general competence.



Who knows man.

It’s a sad state of affairs.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Who knows man.
> 
> It’s a sad state of affairs.



I am sure that the people who are supposed to be strategic "thinkers" at BAF never considered anything apart from Russian/Chinese options till the US sanctions on Russia were put in place.
BN has been planning to incorporate Western sensors into their next-gen frigates ever since the Rohingya crisis of 2017 from all I have heard and read, maybe that was their plan all along.
It seems really strange that BD has one arm that seems to be so less competent than the other two. There may be some good reason this is the case that we armchair generals do not know about.

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## mb444

Interesting video of BAF helicopter pilots serving in UN mission in congo. I assume they are from BAF rather than BA.

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## Rahil Ahmed

This might be a stupid question but is it possible for BD to have Indigenous air capabilities by 2050?


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> This might be a stupid question but is it possible for BD to have Indigenous air capabilities by 2050?



No.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Really? - they signed an order for maybe up to 23 K-8Ws last June - for some strange reason they would not reveal the number. BAF has money as it can buy trainer after trainer and the YAk-130 is not exactly cheap.
> 
> @Avicenna
> 
> Edit - BD has a total defence budget of around 4.5-5 billion US dollars when arms imports are taken into account. Other countries with defence spending at this level are Malaysia, although historically it has been higher.


tell me why an airforce needs more than 4 squadron trainers when their offensive squadrons are less than 2 and goal is to have around 5 squadrons of varying roles? shalara trainer kinte kinte din katabe



Rahil Ahmed said:


> This might be a stupid question but is it possible for BD to have Indigenous air capabilities by 2050?


at most good UAV tech... and if the setup at Lalmonirhat becomes a major aviation industry, perhaps something with TOT but not something completely indigenous

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> tell me why an airforce needs more than 4 squadron trainers when their offensive squadrons are less than 2 and goal is to have around 5 squadrons of varying roles? shalara trainer kinte kinte din katabe


Because BD has a bunch of pilot without fighter.s So they bought trainer to keep them in the sky.


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Because BD has a bunch of pilot without fighter.s So they bought trainer to keep them in the sky.


also years of stagnation resulted in loss of quality pilots

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## Nilgiri

Michael Corleone said:


> It will help do **** all... at this point everyone has given up hope



Excellent, real music to my ears.


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## Avicenna

Does any body know about Bangladesh-South Korea relations?

Like besides the Bangabandhu, do we look to buy from South Korea?


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Does any body know about Bangladesh-South Korea relations?
> 
> Like besides the Bangabandhu, do we look to buy from South Korea?


We have good business relationships. We can buy from them whatever they produce subject to US approval as korea is a US protectorate in all but name, same as japan.

If you are thinking of korean fighter programne....its based on US design. There is no point in going down that way. ..simply aporoach US for F16.

The only fighter programme we should try to take part in is the turkish one. We do not have technical knowhow to provide any input obviously.... but it would be money well spent....we would gain capacity that indigenously we could never get even in the next 50 years. Question is will the turks allow us to take part?

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> We have good business relationships. We can buy from them whatever they produce subject to US approval as korea is a US protectorate in all but name, same as japan.
> 
> If you are thinking of korean fighter programne....its based on US design. There is no point in going down that way. ..simply aporoach US for F16.
> 
> The only fighter programme we should try to take part in is the turkish one. We do not have technical knowhow to provide any input obviously.... but it would be money well spent....we would gain capacity that indigenously we could never get even in the next 50 years. Question is will the turks allow us to take part?



I’m not sure we are in any position to take part currently.

However, it opens up options in the future regarding purchases as does the TFX.

It looks like there are quite a few programs going on from non traditional suppliers.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2263197020395478

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## JohnWick

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2263197020395478


Well thats a good induct .....

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> I’m not sure we are in any position to take part currently.
> 
> However, it opens up options in the future regarding purchases as does the TFX.
> 
> It looks like there are quite a few programs going on from non traditional suppliers.



Outside of traditional players i am only aware of the turkish programme and korea+indonesian one. Which other contry is trying to create a fighter jet?

Of the traditional players we have the tempest which will be a British lead effort, japanese Mitsubishi series, various chinese indigenous programme plus the JF17, frence rafale , swedish gripen, russian migs and sukois and obviously US F series.

Countries that gave up jet programme for whatever reasons are south africa, brazil, egypt.

Lastly india teja whilst still going on any objective observer would conclude has not been a success.

It certainly is an expensive proposition with no guarantee of sucess. Should BD explore this avenue, i certainly feel we should.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I’m not sure we are in any position to take part currently.
> 
> However, it opens up options in the future regarding purchases as does the TFX.
> 
> It looks like there are quite a few programs going on from non traditional suppliers.




When BD is looking at inducting 5th generation fighters, the best choice would be Turkish. Apart from the engines which look like coming from the UK, the rest of the tech would be Turkish and so getting a good plane from the most reliable supplier is a no-brainer.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> When BD is looking at inducting 5th generation fighters, the best choice would be Turkish. Apart from the engines which look like coming from the UK, the rest of the tech would be Turkish and so getting a good plane from the most reliable supplier is a no-brainer.



Who knows man.



mb444 said:


> Outside of traditional players i am only aware of the turkish programme and korea+indonesian one. Which other contry is trying to create a fighter jet?
> 
> Of the traditional players we have the tempest which will be a British lead effort, japanese Mitsubishi series, various chinese indigenous programme plus the JF17, frence rafale , swedish gripen, russian migs and sukois and obviously US F series.
> 
> Countries that gave up jet programme for whatever reasons are south africa, brazil, egypt.
> 
> Lastly india teja whilst still going on any objective observer would conclude has not been a success.
> 
> It certainly is an expensive proposition with no guarantee of sucess. Should BD explore this avenue, i certainly feel we should.



Yea you pretty much have listed all the programs I was referring too.

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## The Ronin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1141347215400677376
*BANGLADESH AIR FORCE CHIEF PASSES BUSSY SCHEDULE IN FRANCE*










Dhaka, 20 Jun:- Visiting Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, BBP, OSP, ndu, psc passes bussy schedule in France.

During stay in France, Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force attended the innuguration program of ‘The 53rdInternational Paris Air Show-2019’ held in Paris on 17 June 2019 where the President of France Emmanuel Macron was present as the Chief Guest.

Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force made a courtesy call on Defence Minister of France & the Chief of Staff of the French Air Force and they exchanged views on different issues of bilateral interest.

In the Air Show, he also exchanged views with Air Chiefs of different countries and discussed on professional matters. *Besides, he met with high officials of giant aviation companies like Boeing, Embrier, Dassault Aviation, Leonardo, SAAB, Turkish Aerospace, THALES, SAFRAN etc and he discussed about the latest and future aviation technologies with an intention to incorporate those in Bangladesh Aviation sector.*

During discussion, Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force at first highlighted the economical and other sectors development of Bangladesh and urged them to participate in aviation sector of Bangladesh.

They all appreciated the idea and they expressed to work together with appropriate planning and pragmatic steps. It may be mentioned that Chief of Air Staff will return to Bangladesh on 23 Jun 2019 after completion of visit in France.

https://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/banglade...3H1ND41NWEeXnp1dBiCJGCs8QzGADegI1kNE_yAPFfZCo

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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> When BD is looking at inducting 5th generation fighters, the best choice would be Turkish. Apart from the engines which look like coming from the UK, the rest of the tech would be Turkish and so getting a good plane from the most reliable supplier is a no-brainer.


Forget fifth generation. Guys can't even buy decent fourth generation till date. 

But jest aside. BAF should try to gule themselves with TF-X even if it's just monetary investment.

PAF is surely going after TF-X. That means it's going serious. And if you consider geo-politic, TF-X is the only viable option for BAF in Fifth generation.



The Ronin said:


> Besides, he met with high officials of giant aviation companies like Boeing, Embrier, Dassault Aviation, Leonardo, SAAB, Turkish Aerospace, THALES, SAFRAN etc and he discussed about the latest and future aviation technologies with an intention to incorporate those in Bangladesh Aviation sector.


This is the sole point in this long jibberish that has my attention.

So what was the specifics of these discussions?

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## ghost250

so more c-130 j...










#DTB

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## The Ronin

Arthur said:


> So what was the specifics of these discussions?



Word is BAF is looking for mobile pulse doppler radar where Thales is a strong contender. COAS might finalize the deal for it in Paris Air Show. Thales is also strong contender for Army's Long range radar tender issued in 2017-18 FY, word is Thales's Ground Master 400 radar has been selected by the Army already. 

I think COAS will discuss about MRCA, attack and utility helicopter, SAM, medium transport aircraft and other radar-sensors with Leonardo, SAAB, Turkish Aerospace, THALES.

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## Arthur

The Ronin said:


> Word is BAF is looking for mobile pulse doppler radar where Thales is a strong contender. COAS might finalize the deal for it in Paris Air Show. Thales is also strong contender for Army's Long range radar tender issued in 2017-18 FY, word is Thales's Ground Master 400 radar has been selected by the Army already.
> 
> I think COAS will discuss about MRCA, attack and utility helicopter, SAM, medium transport aircraft and other radar-sensors with Leonardo, SAAB, Turkish Aerospace, THALES.


The Radars are comfirmed. At least one unit of 3D AESA for BAF. 

But I was more curious whether he approached BAE, SAAB to participate in our fighter purchase. There was no better chance to approach them than Paris air Show.

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## alphapak

Arthur said:


> Forget fifth generation. Guys can't even buy decent fourth generation till date.
> 
> But jest aside. BAF should try to gule themselves with TF-X even if it's just monetary investment.
> 
> PAF is surely going after TF-X. That means it's going serious. And if you consider geo-politic, TF-X is the only viable option for BAF in Fifth generation.
> 
> 
> This is the sole point in this long jibberish that has my attention.
> 
> So what was the specifics of these discussions?



I think BAF missed a trick by not going for JF 17 Thunders, Myanmar
played a clever one.

As for TFX you will have to wait 10-15 years.

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## UKBengali

alphapak said:


> I think BAF missed a trick by not going for JF 17 Thunders, Myanmar
> played a clever one.
> 
> As for TFX you will have to wait 10-15 years.




JF-17 Thunder simply is not good enough for BAF.
Nothing was missed.

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## Arthur

alphapak said:


> I think BAF missed a trick by not going for JF 17 Thunders, Myanmar
> played a clever one.
> 
> As for TFX you will have to wait 10-15 years.


You are on point with JFT. 

On TF-X, I don't think BAF will be ready to induct fifth generation in next 10-12 years either. So waiting won't cost us anything anyway.


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## alphapak

UKBengali said:


> JF-17 Thunder simply is not good enough for BAF.
> Nothing was missed.



Well it's better than having nothing. Anyways goodluck with the search
for a fighter.

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## UKBengali

alphapak said:


> Well it's better than having nothing. Anyways goodluck with the search
> for a fighter.




Just because it is better than nothing is not a good enough reason.

BAF will go with some Western fighter and J-10C.


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## alphapak

With the Jf17 and Saab Gripen you have a multi role light weight aircraft
which is low on maintenance. It will suit BAF and they can buy in numbers.



UKBengali said:


> Just because it is better than nothing is not a good enough reason.
> 
> BAF will go with some Western fighter and J-10C.



Western fighters are expensive and come with strings attached. As for J10C
it is an excellent choice if BAF goes for it.


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## UKBengali

alphapak said:


> With the Jf17 and Saab Gripen you have a multi role light weight aircraft
> which is low on maintenance. It will suit BAF and they can buy in numbers.




No JF-17 MUST be at least equal to anything that India has like Rafale. J-10C will suit BD requirements for this and Western fighter can take care of Myanmar.


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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> No JF-17 MUST be at least equal to anything that India has like Rafale. J-10C will suit BD requirements for this and Western fighter can take care of Myanmar.


It's injustice to compare JFT to Rafale. They are completely two different class of fighters.

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## alphapak

UKBengali said:


> No JF-17 MUST be at least equal to anything that India has like Rafale. J-10C will suit BD requirements for this and Western fighter can take care of Myanmar.



Like I said J10c is an excellent fighter jet, which western jet are you thinking
that would be suited for BAF?

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> It's injustice to compare JFT to Rafale. They are completely two different class of fighters.




The point I am trying to make is that any fighter brought from China must be able to face anything that India has, as that is the only source that will be reliable against IAF. Only J-10C or J-20 fits that bill and J-20 is not available.

A western fighter like Gripen E can take care of MAF easily.



alphapak said:


> Like I said J10c is an excellent fighter jet, which western jet are you thinking
> that would be suited for BAF?



Best one is Gripen E as it has the lowest operating costs of all 4th generation fighters and can take care of any plane that MAF has now and is on order. Only problem is the USA may not give clearance to buy it as they have already asked BD to buy their weapons.

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## alphapak

UKBengali said:


> Best one is Gripen E as it has the lowest operating costs of all 4th generation fighters and can take care of any plane that MAF has now and is on order. Only problem is the USA may not give clearance to buy it as they have already asked BD to buy their weapons.



Another good choice for BAF if they go for it, chuck in a few Saab Erieye awacs and the
air force will start to look good. Is the BAF evaluating the J10's and the Gripens??


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## UKBengali

alphapak said:


> Another good choice for BAF if they go for it, chuck in a few Saab Erieye awacs and the
> air force will start to look good. Is the BAF evaluating the J10's and the Gripens??



J-10C has apparently been requested by BAF team last year that evaluated the fighter in China.
No idea about Gripen E.

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## alphapak

UKBengali said:


> J-10C has apparently been requested by BAF team last year that evaluated the fighter in China.
> No idea about Gripes E.



It will be a good start for BAF if they get the J10's.


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## mb444

Good news if the British option is being considered for BAF.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ter-launches-long-term-enhancement-pr-459182/

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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> I think BAF missed a trick by not going for JF 17 Thunders, Myanmar
> played a clever one.
> 
> As for TFX you will have to wait 10-15 years.


they would have gone for it regardless... we bought migs... they followed... we bought f7 they followed... we bought yaks they followed....



Arthur said:


> Forget fifth generation. Guys can't even buy decent fourth generation till date.
> 
> But jest aside. BAF should try to gule themselves with TF-X even if it's just monetary investment.
> 
> PAF is surely going after TF-X. That means it's going serious. And if you consider geo-politic, TF-X is the only viable option for BAF in Fifth generation.


PAf will surely go for those... as will most airforces of the muslim world... can't talk about GCC but it's a no brainer for bangladesh to look into... or if they want to skip and cooperate with british for tempest... not bad at all



Arthur said:


> curious whether he approached BAE, SAAB to participate in our fighter purchase


yes he did... Boeing too....

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## ghost250

*Bangladesh to receive additional surplus UK C-130J airlifters*

*https://www.janes.com/article/89415/bangladesh-to-receive-additional-surplus-uk-c-130j-airlifters*


Bangladesh is to receive additional short-bodied C-130Js that the UK is divesting itself of, with an undisclosed number adding to the two confirmed in 2018.. Source: IHS Markit/Patrick Allen


The sale of additional UK-surplus Lockheed Martin C-130J Hercules transport aircraft to Bangladesh has been confirmed by a support contract announced by Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group (ADG) on 20 June.

The Asian nation is to receive an undisclosed number of aircraft to add to the two already confirmed via a previous support contract for Marshall ADG. With the UK Royal Air Force (RAF) looking to divest itself of nine 'short-bodied' C-130Js (designated C5 in UK service), all but four aircraft have already been earmarked for customers.

"Marshall ADG has signed a new multi-million-pound contract with the Bangladesh Air Force to support additional C-130J aircraft purchased from the UK Ministry of Defence [MoD]", a company statement said, adding, "This new multi-year contract follows on from the contract signed in May 2018, and will see Marshall provide total support to the entire Bangladesh Air Force C-130J fleet".

The Bangladesh Air Force has previously noted that the acquisition of C-130J aircraft from the RAF provides a key enhancement to its current airlift capability. As well as performing in-country support of the aircraft, Marshalls will also be modifying the aircraft, including designing, developing, and installing a medical evacuation (MEDEVAC) capability, to enable the Bangladeshi Air Force to carry out tasks within the country and overseas in support of UN missions.

The acquisition of the C-130Js will enable the Bangladeshi Air Force to retire the four C-130Bs that it has fielded since 2001 (these were acquired secondhand from the United States), at the same time as augmenting its three Antonov An-32 'Cline' and three L-410UVP-200 transport aircraft that date from 1989 and 2015 respectively.

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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> *Bangladesh to receive additional surplus UK C-130J airlifters*
> 
> *https://www.janes.com/article/89415/bangladesh-to-receive-additional-surplus-uk-c-130j-airlifters*
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is to receive additional short-bodied C-130Js that the UK is divesting itself of, with an undisclosed number adding to the two confirmed in 2018.. Source: IHS Markit/Patrick Allen
> 
> 
> The sale of additional UK-surplus Lockheed Martin C-130J Hercules transport aircraft to Bangladesh has been confirmed by a support contract announced by Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group (ADG) on 20 June.
> 
> The Asian nation is to receive an undisclosed number of aircraft to add to the two already confirmed via a previous support contract for Marshall ADG. With the UK Royal Air Force (RAF) looking to divest itself of nine 'short-bodied' C-130Js (designated C5 in UK service), all but four aircraft have already been earmarked for customers.
> 
> "Marshall ADG has signed a new multi-million-pound contract with the Bangladesh Air Force to support additional C-130J aircraft purchased from the UK Ministry of Defence [MoD]", a company statement said, adding, "This new multi-year contract follows on from the contract signed in May 2018, and will see Marshall provide total support to the entire Bangladesh Air Force C-130J fleet".
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force has previously noted that the acquisition of C-130J aircraft from the RAF provides a key enhancement to its current airlift capability. As well as performing in-country support of the aircraft, Marshalls will also be modifying the aircraft, including designing, developing, and installing a medical evacuation (MEDEVAC) capability, to enable the Bangladeshi Air Force to carry out tasks within the country and overseas in support of UN missions.
> 
> The acquisition of the C-130Js will enable the Bangladeshi Air Force to retire the four C-130Bs that it has fielded since 2001 (these were acquired secondhand from the United States), at the same time as augmenting its three Antonov An-32 'Cline' and three L-410UVP-200 transport aircraft that date from 1989 and 2015 respectively.


bdmilitary talked about this atleast a year ago....

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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> bdmilitary talked about this atleast a year ago....









so 3 more??way to go,BAF..

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## Tanveer666

So, we are to have 5 C-130s in the end (2+ additional 3)?


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> So, we are to have 5 C-130s in the end (2+ additional 3)?


one more if EDA one is materialised...


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## Arthur

BAF also signed for Radar integration Solution. 

This is a huge development. A stepping stone to integrated AD all over BD sky.

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## Tanveer666

Arthur said:


> BAF also signed for Radar integration Solution.
> 
> This is a huge development. A stepping stone to integrated AD all over BD sky.


With whom


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## Avicenna

This place is kinda quiet so I thought I'd post this old article by our boy Ryan Smith a.k.a. Al-Beruni.

It's actually not a bad article.


Defense & Security Analysis
May 22, 2018 · 4 min read
In modern warfare, combatants are able to intrude into enemy airspace to strike directly at civilian targets with little warning. This ability will only increase with time.

We can, therefore, see how it is critically important for the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) to have the ability to anticipate, pre-empt, and respond to such threats to its people, military, and civil infrastructure.









Bangladesh Air Force Operate Chinese-made F-7, a licensed produced MiG-21
Since the inception of air warfare, the inherent characteristics of speed, reach, and flexibility mean that air power is the first line of defense against any threat posed by a rogue nation or terrorist organisation.

As such, we need to consider the possibility that we are flying “strategically blind,” given that we are living next to a hostile aggressor who does not respect human rights, democratic values, or regional harmony.

The current situation

As a uniformed military organisation, it is BAF’s duty to be at the front-line of our nation’s defense.

BAF’s principal focus should be to change significantly in professionalism, technical mastery, operational capability, air defense systems, and adherence to air force values. BAF should build an infrastructure capable of operating the current and future generation fighter jets.

Significant emphasis should be given to developing the workforce, technology, and war-fighting capabilities. BAF must place greater emphasis on ensuring their personnel can exploit the full potential of our future platforms and systems. This requirement will extend to the existing leaders of BAF becoming the practitioners of the high-tech war machine in the information age.

A history of prosecution

BAF currently does not have a formally documented and widely-accessible air warfare strategy, nor does it have many publicly identifiable strategic thinkers. Such weaknesses were dictated by the previous BNP-led government, and not enough attention is given to how BAF can offer input into the process which leads to its creation of a capable air force.

BAF officers were retrenched and prosecuted by the BNP-led government for recommending the procurement of fighter jets in the past.

Not thinking strategically

Strategic imagination was almost entirely ignored during the recent MRCA tender floated by BAF which allows only Russia to participate with only one type of fighter jet. The Russians also used the opportunity to present a unfavourable deal to Bangladesh which led to delay or the withdrawal of the MMRA tender. For BAF to be able to fully defend the people of Bangladesh, this must change.

The priority

Emphasis must be given to the establishment of air force bases, an air force command and communication centre, air traffic control independent of civilian air traffic control, training facilities, and, most importantly, medium and long-range air defense systems in order to protect national assets such as the Rooppur nuclear power plant, our transport infrastructure, seaports, and container terminals.

Medium multi-role combat aircraft for BAF

Initiatives such as the procurement of medium multi-role fighter jets and air defense systems are critical given the circumstances. I believe BAF should re-evaluate the MMRA tender and allow Boeing and Saab Defense to participate in the bidding to supply at least a squadron of fighter jets and associated support infrastructure.

The following sections articulate how Saab Gripen NG and Boeing F/A-18 E/F matches Bangladesh’s requirements.

Gripen next generation

Pros: Gripen NG is a network-centric, Information Age fighter jet. The Gripen provides technological advantages over any other fighter jet available in this region. The Gripen NG is packed with an advanced radar and avionics suite that outmatches any potential opponent. It is packed with features and is armed with new generation air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions.

The Gripen also brings maritime strike capabilities in its portfolio. Sweden has been neutral in any direct political conflict which makes it easy to align with Bangladesh’s strategic goal.

Cons: The Gripen is not combat-proven. Sweden was never in Bangladesh’s defense spotlight.

F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

Pros: F/A-18 is combat proven and widely used by many countries. The new generation F/A-18 is packed with advanced avionics, electronics, and software that outmatches any potential threats BAF may face in the future. The F/A-18’s unmatched capability to strike any naval assets is beyond doubt. The F/A-18 is also packed with a vast array of munitions to overwhelm the enemy with sheer firepower.

Cons: Although the current political environment in Washington, DC is favourable to Bangladesh, the F/A-18 comes with a political clause in the future acquisition of any F/A-18 armaments. As long as Bangladesh remains a democratic nation, political risks can be mitigated, and support systems can be outsourced from a third country.

BAF should deploy the systems, sensors, and networks to demonstrate efficient air and situational awareness around Bangladesh. The more technologically-advanced capabilities will characterise the future of BAF for intelligence, surveillance, war-fighting, reconnaissance systems, and long-range air defense and strike weapons employed by the air force.

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> This place is kinda quiet so I thought I'd post this old article by our boy Ryan Smith a.k.a. Al-Beruni.
> 
> It's actually not a bad article.
> 
> 
> Defense & Security Analysis
> May 22, 2018 · 4 min read
> In modern warfare, combatants are able to intrude into enemy airspace to strike directly at civilian targets with little warning. This ability will only increase with time.
> 
> We can, therefore, see how it is critically important for the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) to have the ability to anticipate, pre-empt, and respond to such threats to its people, military, and civil infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force Operate Chinese-made F-7, a licensed produced MiG-21
> Since the inception of air warfare, the inherent characteristics of speed, reach, and flexibility mean that air power is the first line of defense against any threat posed by a rogue nation or terrorist organisation.
> 
> As such, we need to consider the possibility that we are flying “strategically blind,” given that we are living next to a hostile aggressor who does not respect human rights, democratic values, or regional harmony.
> 
> The current situation
> 
> As a uniformed military organisation, it is BAF’s duty to be at the front-line of our nation’s defense.
> 
> BAF’s principal focus should be to change significantly in professionalism, technical mastery, operational capability, air defense systems, and adherence to air force values. BAF should build an infrastructure capable of operating the current and future generation fighter jets.
> 
> Significant emphasis should be given to developing the workforce, technology, and war-fighting capabilities. BAF must place greater emphasis on ensuring their personnel can exploit the full potential of our future platforms and systems. This requirement will extend to the existing leaders of BAF becoming the practitioners of the high-tech war machine in the information age.
> 
> A history of prosecution
> 
> BAF currently does not have a formally documented and widely-accessible air warfare strategy, nor does it have many publicly identifiable strategic thinkers. Such weaknesses were dictated by the previous BNP-led government, and not enough attention is given to how BAF can offer input into the process which leads to its creation of a capable air force.
> 
> BAF officers were retrenched and prosecuted by the BNP-led government for recommending the procurement of fighter jets in the past.
> 
> Not thinking strategically
> 
> Strategic imagination was almost entirely ignored during the recent MRCA tender floated by BAF which allows only Russia to participate with only one type of fighter jet. The Russians also used the opportunity to present a unfavourable deal to Bangladesh which led to delay or the withdrawal of the MMRA tender. For BAF to be able to fully defend the people of Bangladesh, this must change.
> 
> The priority
> 
> Emphasis must be given to the establishment of air force bases, an air force command and communication centre, air traffic control independent of civilian air traffic control, training facilities, and, most importantly, medium and long-range air defense systems in order to protect national assets such as the Rooppur nuclear power plant, our transport infrastructure, seaports, and container terminals.
> 
> Medium multi-role combat aircraft for BAF
> 
> Initiatives such as the procurement of medium multi-role fighter jets and air defense systems are critical given the circumstances. I believe BAF should re-evaluate the MMRA tender and allow Boeing and Saab Defense to participate in the bidding to supply at least a squadron of fighter jets and associated support infrastructure.
> 
> The following sections articulate how Saab Gripen NG and Boeing F/A-18 E/F matches Bangladesh’s requirements.
> 
> Gripen next generation
> 
> Pros: Gripen NG is a network-centric, Information Age fighter jet. The Gripen provides technological advantages over any other fighter jet available in this region. The Gripen NG is packed with an advanced radar and avionics suite that outmatches any potential opponent. It is packed with features and is armed with new generation air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions.
> 
> The Gripen also brings maritime strike capabilities in its portfolio. Sweden has been neutral in any direct political conflict which makes it easy to align with Bangladesh’s strategic goal.
> 
> Cons: The Gripen is not combat-proven. Sweden was never in Bangladesh’s defense spotlight.
> 
> F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
> 
> Pros: F/A-18 is combat proven and widely used by many countries. The new generation F/A-18 is packed with advanced avionics, electronics, and software that outmatches any potential threats BAF may face in the future. The F/A-18’s unmatched capability to strike any naval assets is beyond doubt. The F/A-18 is also packed with a vast array of munitions to overwhelm the enemy with sheer firepower.
> 
> Cons: Although the current political environment in Washington, DC is favourable to Bangladesh, the F/A-18 comes with a political clause in the future acquisition of any F/A-18 armaments. As long as Bangladesh remains a democratic nation, political risks can be mitigated, and support systems can be outsourced from a third country.
> 
> BAF should deploy the systems, sensors, and networks to demonstrate efficient air and situational awareness around Bangladesh. The more technologically-advanced capabilities will characterise the future of BAF for intelligence, surveillance, war-fighting, reconnaissance systems, and long-range air defense and strike weapons employed by the air force.



Any reason why beruni didnt put eurofighter or rafale in the analysis?...given superbug and gripen are included.

Those 4 along with F-16 are really the 5 western platforms in contention if you are going for say a solid squadron.


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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Any reason why beruni didnt put eurofighter or rafale in the analysis?...given superbug and gripen are included.
> 
> Those 4 along with F-16 are really the 5 western platforms in contention if you are going for say a solid squadron.



Probably cost of procurement and operation.

Superbug may be just as expensive as Typhoon and Rafale to operate but it is a lot cheaper to buy. Gripen E is both cheaper to procure and much much cheaper to operate than either Typhoon or Rafale.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Probably cost of procurement and operation.
> 
> Superbug may be just as expensive as Typhoon and Rafale to operate but it is a lot cheaper to buy. Gripen E is both cheaper to procure and much much cheaper to operate than either Typhoon or Rafale.



Well one can simply put the costs as pros and cons.


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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> Well one can simply put the costs as pros and cons.




He is just putting forward the only two Western fighters that BAF has the budget to operate in any numbers - Gripen E and F-16V. Others like Typhoon and Rafale will only be affordable in like 12-16 planes.

Remember that BD also needs to buy maybe J-10C from China as well, as it wants two different suppliers to cover all angles.

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Any reason why beruni didnt put eurofighter or rafale in the analysis?...given superbug and gripen are included.
> 
> Those 4 along with F-16 are really the 5 western platforms in contention if you are going for say a solid squadron.



No idea why he chose only those 2.

The second part of the article is fluff.

The first part i liked.

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## Cygnus Black

Bangladesh doesn't need an air force. It has IAF Eastern Air Command protecting its skies. It should completely focus on it's economy and not its sovereignty or territorial integrity. Leave that task to India. Your target should be 10% GDP growth.


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## Avicenna

Cygnus Black said:


> Bangladesh doesn't need an air force. It has IAF Eastern Air Command protecting its skies. It should completely focus on it's economy and not its sovereignty or territorial integrity. Leave that task to India. Your target should be 10% GDP growth.



Thanks for the tip.

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## Arthur

Tanveer666 said:


> With whom


Artemis UK. This will not only integrate large AD/Surveillance radars but also smaller radars from all branches of Armed forces.

The goal is to integrate all systems, all branches in a net centric environment & achieve C4 in midterm plans. Few thing AFD was doing to achieve this :

1. Introducing common operatas for intelligence sharing.

2. Introduction of datalinks etc to achieve netcentric C&C (NAVY, ARMY, AIR)

3. Installation of Optical fiber network for armed forces to achieve better connectivity. VSAT & etc for remote operation areas.

4. All branches has introduced modern training & tactics to achieve greater co-operability.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> He is just putting forward the only two Western fighters that BAF has the budget to operate in any numbers - Gripen E and F-16V. Others like Typhoon and Rafale will only be affordable in like 12-16 planes.
> 
> Remember that BD also needs to buy maybe J-10C from China as well, as it wants two different suppliers to cover all angles.



Well he didn't mention the F-16, it was just Gripen and superbug. 

Hornet is pretty expensive to operate...along lines of EF and rafale for sure. So its just weird is all.

Gripen and F-16 analysis only (for western choice)....that makes sense if cost argument already filtered in.

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Well he didn't mention the F-16, it was just Gripen and superbug.
> 
> Hornet is pretty expensive to operate...along lines of EF and rafale for sure. So its just weird is all.
> 
> Gripen and F-16 analysis only (for western choice)....that makes sense if cost argument already filtered in.



I'm sure he didn't mean it as a comprehensive list but rather just 2 arbitrary examples.

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> I'm sure he didn't mean it as a comprehensive list but rather just 2 arbitrary examples.



Much ado about nothing anyway I think. I will just watch rest of the year and 2020+.


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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Much ado about nothing anyway I think. I will just watch rest of the year and 2020+.



Yea its difficult to say at this point.

But I do find the whole situation fascinating.

I enjoy history and geopolitics.

And in the course of events, orientations change.

We may or may not be witnessing that.

True, it is Bangladesh, and obviously the implications are extremely limited for the world.

But its just something to discuss and ponder upon.

Also the sourcing of fighter jets are important markers in that they are big ticket items which are indicative of political realities.

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## Michael Corleone

Cygnus Black said:


> Bangladesh doesn't need an air force. It has IAF Eastern Air Command protecting its skies. It should completely focus on it's economy and not its sovereignty or territorial integrity. Leave that task to India. Your target should be 10% GDP growth.


thanks for the insight, now stick to eating grass on top of those shiny nukes

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## The Ronin

British & Commonwealth Mil (2CG) has announced the tail numbers of BAF's upcoming C-130J Super Hercules aircraft through Twitter.

In 2018, Bangladesh Air Force signed a deal for 2xC-130J where the tail numbers were ZH-881 & ZH-883.In 22nd June, BAF signed another deal for 3 more C-130J where the possible tail numbers are ZH-887,ZH-888 & ZH-889.

UK RAF is retiring 13 C-130J of their fleet where Bangladesh has bought 5 aircrafts (Another one will come),USA (Blue Angel Aerobatics team) bought one and Bahrain Air Force bought 2. Remaining aircrafts are stored and France, Sri Lanka & Indonesia are lobbying with UK to buy those.

Under the Transport Aircraft Squadron modernization plan,BAF has procured 3xLET-410 from Czech Republic to train pilots in transport module where earlier they used to train them on Cessna T-37 and L-39ZA

BAF has plan to buy 6xC-130J from RAF & 4xC-130H from USA under EDA where one of C-130H got approved. By these BAF will gradually replace their C-130B fleet.

After that BAF will replaced their Antonov fleet and possible contenders are CASA C-295W, C-27J Spartan & Antonov An132D

Then BAF has plan to accure a dedicated aerial refueller like KC-130 from USA and possibly one Strategic transport aircraft like C-17 or IL-76MD90.

Credit- Evan Ahmed Shafi


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143636307328897025

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## TopCat

The Ronin said:


> Then BAF has plan to accure a dedicated aerial refueller like KC-130 from USA and possibly one Strategic transport aircraft like C-17 or IL-76MD90.


Refueller to fuel what? The tummy of air chief?


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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> where one of C-130H got approved


When did that happen? When might we get the delivery?


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Refueller to fuel what? The tummy of air chief?


Panta bhat

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## Nike

Nilgiri said:


> Well he didn't mention the F-16, it was just Gripen and superbug.
> 
> Hornet is pretty expensive to operate...along lines of EF and rafale for sure. So its just weird is all.
> 
> Gripen and F-16 analysis only (for western choice)....that makes sense if cost argument already filtered in.



Hornet is not that much expensive to maintain only more expensive compared to F16, and he is a robust and had sturdy airframe compared to other Teen fighter. Myself even trying to promote This beast for Indonesia

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## Nilgiri

Marine Rouge said:


> Hornet is not that much expensive to maintain only more expensive compared to F16, and he is a robust and had sturdy airframe compared to other Teen fighter. Myself even trying to promote This beast for Indonesia
> 
> View attachment 567169



Well as stand alone 1 squadron role, it will be pricey compared to F-16 and Gripen.

Lot of F-18 capability (weapons, sensors) esp with growler is only really unlocked with higher investment in the military architecture and proper scale there. So given the capability foregone w.r.t capital price (i.e stuff thats there baked in but you will never really use), it would be defacto transmitted to a somewhat parasitic extra operating cost is what I'm hinting at.

Integrated US architecture costs don't really apply to developing country getting a 1-off squadron of something for that reason.


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## Michael Corleone

Marine Rouge said:


> Hornet is not that much expensive to maintain only more expensive compared to F16, and he is a robust and had sturdy airframe compared to other Teen fighter. Myself even trying to promote This beast for Indonesia
> 
> View attachment 567169


so f16 cost came down over the years while mig 29 cost stayed the same or higher... 
press F to pay respects to the operators


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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Well as stand alone 1 squadron role, it will be pricey compared to F-16 and Gripen.
> 
> Lot of F-18 capability (weapons, sensors) esp with growler is only really unlocked with higher investment in the military architecture and proper scale there. So given the capability foregone w.r.t capital price (i.e stuff thats there baked in but you will never really use), it would be defacto transmitted to a somewhat parasitic extra operating cost is what I'm hinting at.
> 
> Integrated US architecture costs don't really apply to developing country getting a 1-off squadron of something for that reason.



Malaysia?


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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Malaysia?



Yes BAF policy makers and top pilots should maybe talk to malaysian counterparts about their experience w.r.t actionable capability versus cost (esp amortised) of platform. Esp rational they went for SU-30 after it instead of building up more scale on F-18.

These kind of numbers/deep debates wont really be found on the layman internet.

That too I believe the malaysians got the older bug, not superbug. Superbug is even more larger broader network +C4I oriented for its unit hardware pricing....growler being the apex of the concept.

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> Yes BAF policy makers and top pilots should maybe talk to malaysian counterparts about their experience w.r.t actionable capability versus cost (esp amortised) of platform. Esp rational they went for SU-30 after it instead of building up more scale on F-18.
> 
> These kind of numbers/deep debates wont really be found on the layman internet.
> 
> That too I believe the malaysians got the older bug, not superbug. Superbug is even more larger broader network +C4I oriented for its unit hardware pricing....growler being the apex of the concept.



I think their initial buy of the F-18D was limited to 8 by the Asian financial crisis of 97.

As to why they went Russian afterwards with the Flanker....perhaps politics.

But they are set again to choose another type to replace their Mig-29s which are now out of service.

Again probably limited in numbers.

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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> Refueller to fuel what? The tummy of air chief?

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> BAF will replaced their Antonov fleet and possible contenders are CASA C-295W, C-27J Spartan & Antonov An132D



Well - my vote probably matters worth squat (like everyone else at PDF), but here goes,

CASA C-295W - Airframe is not strong enough for medium duty tasks like vehicle transport (even jeeps), good for para-drops only.

C-27J Spartan - *One of my favorites, though older proven heavy duty design yet agile enough to use undeveloped strips in Bangladesh. Essentially a two-engined mini-Hercules. *The plus for BAF is the commonality with the C-130J - I believe uses the same engine and props as the C130J so would be a slam-dunk choice for BAF because of commonality of parts and maintenance procedures. Look at below Royal Australian AF example. And we have a very close working relationship with Leonardo already through other Italian outfits like Agusta.











Antonov An132D - A brand new fuselage design (much lighter than AN-32) with reliable new Canadian fuel-efficient Turboprop engine PW150. Uses powerful new efficient-lift wing design with double-slotted flaps and slats. Did a great show-off at the recent Indian Air show.

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> Well - my vote probably matters worth squat (like everyone else at PDF), but here goes,
> 
> CASA C-295W - Airframe is not strong enough for medium duty tasks like vehicle transport (even jeeps), good for para-drops only.
> 
> C-27J Spartan - *One of my favorites, though older proven heavy duty design yet agile enough to use undeveloped strips in Bangladesh. Essentially a two-engined mini-Hercules. *The plus for BAF is the commonality with the C-130J - I believe uses the same engine and props as the C130J so would be a slam-dunk choice for BAF because of commonality of parts and maintenance procedures. Look at below Royal Australian AF example. And we have a very close working relationship with Leonardo already through other Italian outfits like Agusta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antonov An132D - A brand new fuselage design (much lighter than AN-32) with reliable new Canadian fuel-efficient Turboprop engine PW150. Uses powerful new efficient-lift wing design with double-slotted flaps and slats. Did a great show-off at the recent Indian Air show.


The premier selling point of CASA is it's cargo bay, that provide dynamism at cargo size. It's simply provides a much spacious cargo bay. BD army considered three points during trial ; it's cargo bay, that provides most in terms of para droping, Special OP like commado incertion, Sniper deployment with ATV when necessary.

I am not a big fan of C27J for the this reason, It's an old design & not much in term of cargo room.

Don't know much about An 132D. I am more inclined to think BAF will only follow suit with BA & order CASA.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> CASA C-295W - Airframe is not strong enough for medium duty tasks like vehicle transport (even jeeps), good for para-drops only.


howw many current antonov models have you seen bangladesh use for anything other than para drops?


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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> I think their initial buy of the F-18D was limited to 8 by the Asian financial crisis of 97.
> 
> As to why they went Russian afterwards with the Flanker....perhaps politics.
> 
> But they are set again to choose another type to replace their Mig-29s which are now out of service.
> 
> Again probably limited in numbers.



Yes these were all definite factors. But the dropping of F-18 acquisition after the recovery from AFC is really telling, given the US lobby definitely pushed to keep the plan on track for Malaysia and threw few sops their way even. But Malaysia by then just wasnt really getting the return on investment they wanted and they were more fiscally compressed on top...which would be key considerations for BD.

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## Nike

Nilgiri said:


> Yes these were all definite factors. But the dropping of F-18 acquisition after the recovery from AFC is really telling, given the US lobby definitely pushed to keep the plan on track for Malaysia and threw few sops their way even. But Malaysia by then just wasnt really getting the return on investment they wanted and they were more fiscally compressed on top...which would be key considerations for BD.



Why Malaysia not opt for more F/A 18 after AFC is much to do with payment scheme, after all they bought their Su 30 MKM with commodities too and lennient of Russian to provide technical arrangement for the MKM to use several western system. If you follow their Defense issues from reputable sources like http://www.malaysiandefence.com/

Their MoD is much prefer to use and maintain their F/A 18 even compared to their much newly acquired Su 30 MKM, and right now is in talks to acquire ex kuwaiti Legacy hornet

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## UKBengali

Marine Rouge said:


> Why Malaysia not opt for more F/A 18 after AFC is much to do with payment scheme, after all they bought their Su 30 MKM with commodities too and lennient of Russian to provide technical arrangement for the MKM to use several western system. If you follow their Defense issues from reputable sources like http://www.malaysiandefence.com/
> 
> Their MoD is much prefer to use and maintain their F/A 18 even compared to their much newly acquired Su 30 MKM, and right now is in talks to acquire ex kuwaiti Legacy hornet



Malaysia defence budget has been cut by 10% to 3.2 billion US dollars.

BD defence budget has risen by 10% to nearly 4 billion US dollars. Arms imports are separate to this.

@Nilgiri


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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> Malaysia defence budget has been cut by 10% to 3.2 billion US dollars.
> 
> BD defence budget has risen by 10% to nearly 4 billion US dollars. Arms imports are separate to this.
> 
> @Nilgiri



You need to calculate how much corrupt your army first

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## UKBengali

Marine Rouge said:


> You need to calculate how much corrupt your army first



No way of knowing who is more corrupt and so assume equal corruption.
Anyway the trend is that BD defence spending will grow larger and larger with respect to Malaysia into the future.


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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> No way of knowing who is more corrupt and so assume equal corruption.
> Anyway the trend is that BD defence spending will grow larger and larger with respect to Malaysia into the future.




Myanmar outstrip you in recent purchase even with less budget, you need to calculate how much to spent on salary and benefit along with other spending

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## UKBengali

Marine Rouge said:


> Myanmar outstrip you in recent purchase even with less budget, you need to calculate how much to spent on salary and benefit along with other spending



Hmm.
Actually no.

If you look at Navy, BN has procured far more and capable platforms than MN.
BA is also keeping up and has also ordered large landing craft that can transport tanks and troops to shores hundreds of miles from BD.
Only BAF has not ordered fighters like MAF has. That is due to Rohingya and US sanctions on Russia which is forcing BAF at finally looking at Western options. Ironically this will make BAF far better than MAF in the end but it till take some years.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> Malaysia defence budget has been cut by 10% to 3.2 billion US dollars.
> 
> BD defence budget has risen by 10% to nearly 4 billion US dollars. Arms imports are separate to this.
> 
> @Nilgiri



@TopCat already said somewhere its all accounted for, military spending in budget (incl. imports) under the projected amount. So I really don't take much regarding the claims u make of "imports accounted outside". SIPRI agrees with @TopCat as well.

You are comparing to a country with ~ 5 times less people than you too, the margins of the same budget level for capex addition will thus be very different.

I'm not gonna compare India and Saudi Arabia (similar budget size in USD for defense) w.r.t goody-bag capex imports for the same reason.

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> @TopCat already said somewhere its all accounted for, military spending in budget (incl. imports) under the projected amount. So I really don't take much regarding the claims u make of "imports accounted outside". SIPRI agrees with @TopCat as well.
> 
> You are comparing to a country with ~ 5 times less people than you too, the margins of the same budget level for capex addition will thus be very different.
> 
> I'm not gonna compare India and Saudi Arabia (similar budget size in USD for defense) w.r.t goody-bag capex imports for the same reason.



Ok, even if you only take the published defence budgets, BD is higher than Malaysia and rising in double digits.

This double digit rise will not stop for a long time as BD budget is being increased in double digits every year.

Lol at finally agreeing with @TopCat just because it suits your narrative. You realise that the official defence budget only allocates 1-150 million US dollars next fiscal for arms procurement . BD defence imports have over the last 5 years in some years exceeded 600 million dollars a year. This money is for stuff built in BD.

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> You realise that the official defence budget only allocates 1-150 million US dollars next fiscal for arms procurement .



And your imports for 2018 is quoted as 100 million at SIPRI. I fail to see the issue here.


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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> And your imports for 2018 is quoted as 100 million at SIPRI. I fail to see the issue here.



2018 was just an anomaly dude.
It was 438 million US dollars in 2016 and 320 million dollars in 2017.

If you look at what BD imports and what is the official procurement budget, you will have the answer.
Currently BD makes small arms, patrol vessels and manpads at home - this and other bits and pieces is what is counted in the official budget for procurement.

Honestly I do not even understand why you argue with someone like me who is very adept at mathematics.


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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> 2018 was just an anomaly dude.
> It was 438 million US dollars in 2016 and 320 million dollars in 2017.



2010 - 2018 import spending comes to about the same between MM and BD....and MM has like 3 times less ppl. Malaysia same period is about half that of BD...with 5 times less people.

So yah @Marine Rouge opex % argument makes lot of sense.



UKBengali said:


> If you look at what BD imports and what is the official procurement budget, you will have the answer.



Post it here (sources) then for the other years (finalized achieved...rather than projections based on "upcoming/expected" deals that never materialised...except for 100 page threads here).

100 mil 2018 and 150 mil projected for 2019 makes fine sense.



UKBengali said:


> Currently BD makes small arms, patrol vessels and manpads at home - this and other bits and pieces is what is counted in the official budget for procurement.



Yeah thats the 50? mil left over in 2018. Chump change.



UKBengali said:


> Honestly I do not even understand why you argue with someone like me who is very adept at mathematics.



You provide zero back-up....apparently SIPRI is a big conspiracy for you lol. Very adept. This has ZILCH to do with math....and the status of your maths among your lot should reflect in your lots average income in UK/US. It really doesn't for a reason.

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## UKBengali

@Nilgiri 

The two Type-056 corvettes by themselves this calendar year come to at least 200 million US dollars. BD will have of course imported lots of other stuff this calendar year.
Why you keep arguing with me on this?
Just admit I am right again and just move on.


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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> @Nilgiri
> 
> The two Type-056 corvettes by themselves this calendar year come to at least 200 million US dollars. BD will have of course imported lots of other stuff this calendar year.
> Why you keep arguing with me on this?
> Just admit I am right again and just move on.



_The second batch of two corvettes *was ordered on 21 July 2015* to China.[27] Construction of the ships began *on 9 August 2016.*[28] The third ship of the class, Shongram (F113), was launched on 12 February *2018.*[29] The fourth ship of the class, Prottasha (F114) was launched on 8 April *2018.*[30] The Bangladesh Navy has received the final two Shongram and Prottasha corvettes. The corvettes were handed over to the service on 28 March and arrived at the naval base in Chittagong on 27 April, said ISPR. [31]_

Yes everything happens in just one year...that too the delivery year lol.

Any more brainwaves to make up for lack of BD sources on FINAL defense imports per year outside of what shows up at SIPRI?


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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> _The second batch of two corvettes *was ordered on 21 July 2015* to China.[27] Construction of the ships began *on 9 August 2016.*[28] The third ship of the class, Shongram (F113), was launched on 12 February *2018.*[29] The fourth ship of the class, Prottasha (F114) was launched on 8 April *2018.*[30] The Bangladesh Navy has received the final two Shongram and Prottasha corvettes. The corvettes were handed over to the service on 28 March and arrived at the naval base in Chittagong on 27 April, said ISPR. [31]_
> 
> Yes everything happens in just one year...that too the delivery year lol.
> 
> Any more brainwaves to make up for lack of BD sources on FINAL defense imports per year outside of what shows up at SIPRI?



Dude, if I have time tomorrow, I will make a list of all the major ticket items imported from 2014-2018.


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## UKBengali

@Nilgiri

Ok. Here goes all the quick search major ticket items that have gone into service for all branches of BD from 2014-2018 and the price is also included:

BA

1. 2 regiments of FM-90 for BA. That is 6 batteries and the cost is 120 million US dollars.
2. 1 Casa C-295 for 30 million US dollars
3. 5 Mi-17 for 50 million US dollars

BN

1. 2 Type-056 corvettes. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
2. 2 Type-035G submarines. Total cost is 200 million US dollars

BAF

1. 24 Yak-130s were signed for a total price of 800 million US dollars. 16 were procured finally for approximately 500 million US dollars
2. 9 K-8Ws for 80 million US dollars
3. 2 AW139 helicopters for 20 million US dollars


I have also left out lots of other stuff like the 2 second hand frigates brought from China and APCs from Turkey as it was not easy to find the cost.

So just this quick search on internet gives a grand total of 1200 million US dollars which comes to 240 million US dollars per year.
If you look at what the BD official defence budget procurement would have been for the period it would have come to less than 500 million US dollars. 5 years ago, before the ToT from China to build Patrol vessels and MANPADs came into effect I think the procurement budget was around 50 million dollars a year and BD had signed a billion dollar loan with Russia for military purchases in 2013, most of which have now been delivered(24 Yak-130 reduced to 16 in the end)!


Dude, admit my far superior mathematical ability has destroyed your arguments totally on this thread and can now bow out like the little champ that you are!

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## Nilgiri

UKBengali said:


> @Nilgiri
> 
> Ok. Here goes all the quick search major ticket items that have gone into service for all branches of BD from 2014-2018 and the price is also included:
> 
> BA
> 
> 1. 2 regiments of FM-90 for BA. That is 6 batteries and the cost is 120 million US dollars.
> 2. 1 Casa C-295 for 30 million US dollars
> 3. 5 Mi-17 for 50 million US dollars
> 
> BN
> 
> 1. 2 Type-056 corvettes. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 2. 2 Type-035G submarines. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 
> BAF
> 
> 1. 24 Yak-130s were signed for a total price of 800 million US dollars. 16 were procured finally for approximately 500 million US dollars
> 2. 9 K-8Ws for 80 million US dollars
> 3. 2 AW139 helicopters for 20 million US dollars
> 
> 
> I have also left out lots of other stuff like the 2 second hand frigates brought from China and APCs from Turkey as it was not easy to find the cost.
> 
> So just this quick search on internet gives a grand total of 1200 million US dollars which comes to 240 million US dollars per year.
> If you look at what the BD official defence budget procurement would have been for the period it would have come to less than 500 million US dollars. 5 years ago, before the ToT from China to build Patrol vessels and MANPADs came into effect I think the procurement budget was around 50 million dollars a year and BD had signed a billion dollar loan with Russia for military purchases in 2013, most of which have now been delivered(24 Yak-130 reduced to 16 in the end)!
> 
> 
> Dude, admit my far superior mathematical ability has destroyed your arguments totally on this thread and can now bow out like the little champ that you are!



Nothing out of line with what SIPRI has if you know how ramps work for payment.

Again 100 mil realised in 2018 and 150 mil projected for 2019 is fully in line with BD govt figures. There is no conspiracy here, there is no "accounted elsewhere" BS.

The funniest catch 22 for your position is it just proves how worthless LDC BD is if so.

Now go work on putting your math to work earning more than the black caribbeans and haitians do.



UKBengali said:


> 1. 2 regiments of FM-90 for BA. That is 6 batteries and the cost is 120 million US dollars.
> 2. 1 Casa C-295 for 30 million US dollars
> 3. 5 Mi-17 for 50 million US dollars
> 
> BN
> 
> 1. 2 Type-056 corvettes. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 2. 2 Type-035G submarines. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 
> BAF
> 
> 1. 24 Yak-130s were signed for a total price of 800 million US dollars. 16 were procured finally for approximately 500 million US dollars
> 2. 9 K-8Ws for 80 million US dollars
> 3. 2 AW139 helicopters for 20 million US dollars



In total comes to about 1.2 billion USD?

SIPRI for time period (2014 - 2018) has 1.7 billion.

So you even got .5 billion to research and post to make up difference.

Again has zilch to do with assuming average realised import level will only ever ramp up each year in some concocted conspiracy-based emotion of yours and that "things are accounted outside waaaah".

Please re-acquaint yourself with @TopCat basics:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/military-spending-increases-slightly.623016/#post-11542791

_Everything that going to be spend is in the budget. where is the separate fund? Even foreign loan and grant is in the budget.

There can not be anything outside of budget.... if it says 150 million then it is 150 million.
_
_Govt cant just randomly borrow money and give it to the army to purchase arms. Even if it was done in a contingency basis, will be reflected in the revised budget at year end. It must be shown in expenditure._

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## UKBengali

Nilgiri said:


> SIPRI for time period (2014 - 2018) has 1.7 billion.




Yes as I have some other things to do with my time and spent around 15 mins googling that info.

You are one dude who thinks he is far more intelligent that he really is - you know without good aptitude in mathematics, understanding in nearly any other area is severely limited. Life is not fair I know.

Rest of your post is worthless to even think about replying to.

Anyway I am out of this now little champ.

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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> @Nilgiri
> 
> Ok. Here goes all the quick search major ticket items that have gone into service for all branches of BD from 2014-2018 and the price is also included:
> 
> BA
> 
> 1. 2 regiments of FM-90 for BA. That is 6 batteries and the cost is 120 million US dollars.
> 2. 1 Casa C-295 for 30 million US dollars
> 3. 5 Mi-17 for 50 million US dollars
> 
> BN
> 
> 1. 2 Type-056 corvettes. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 2. 2 Type-035G submarines. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 
> BAF
> 
> 1. 24 Yak-130s were signed for a total price of 800 million US dollars. 16 were procured finally for approximately 500 million US dollars
> 2. 9 K-8Ws for 80 million US dollars
> 3. 2 AW139 helicopters for 20 million US dollars
> 
> 
> I have also left out lots of other stuff like the 2 second hand frigates brought from China and APCs from Turkey as it was not easy to find the cost.
> 
> So just this quick search on internet gives a grand total of 1200 million US dollars which comes to 240 million US dollars per year.
> If you look at what the BD official defence budget procurement would have been for the period it would have come to less than 500 million US dollars. 5 years ago, before the ToT from China to build Patrol vessels and MANPADs came into effect I think the procurement budget was around 50 million dollars a year and BD had signed a billion dollar loan with Russia for military purchases in 2013, most of which have now been delivered(24 Yak-130 reduced to 16 in the end)!
> 
> 
> Dude, admit my far superior mathematical ability has destroyed your arguments totally on this thread and can now bow out like the little champ that you are!



Your expenditure toward Arms buying is minuscule compared to your whole total budget, you said this data from 2014-2018, but several item is come from deals in 2012. Vietnam spend more than you lot, even with comparable budget and economy size, heck even Myanmar bought and build more items indigenously more than you lot.

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## UKBengali

Marine Rouge said:


> Your expenditure toward Arms buying is minuscule compared to your whole total budget, you said this data from 2014-2018, but several item is come from deals in 2012. Vietnam spend more than you lot, even with comparable budget and economy size, heck even Myanmar bought and build more items indigenously more than you lot.




To make it easy I am just using what came into service from 2014-2018.
As SIPRI says it was 1700 million US dollars in total.

The interesting thing about BD is the budget pretty much is going up in real terms at the same rate as the economy(7-8% a year) and so much more massive sums will be available next decade both to import and also to make arms at home.


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## tarpitz

UKBengali said:


> @Nilgiri
> 
> Ok. Here goes all the quick search major ticket items that have gone into service for all branches of BD from 2014-2018 and the price is also included:
> 
> BA
> 
> 1. 2 regiments of FM-90 for BA. That is 6 batteries and the cost is 120 million US dollars.
> 2. 1 Casa C-295 for 30 million US dollars
> 3. 5 Mi-17 for 50 million US dollars
> 
> BN
> 
> 1. 2 Type-056 corvettes. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 2. 2 Type-035G submarines. Total cost is 200 million US dollars
> 
> BAF
> 
> 1. 24 Yak-130s were signed for a total price of 800 million US dollars. 16 were procured finally for approximately 500 million US dollars
> 2. 9 K-8Ws for 80 million US dollars
> 3. 2 AW139 helicopters for 20 million US dollars
> 
> 
> I have also left out lots of other stuff like the 2 second hand frigates brought from China and APCs from Turkey as it was not easy to find the cost.
> 
> So just this quick search on internet gives a grand total of 1200 million US dollars which comes to 240 million US dollars per year.
> If you look at what the BD official defence budget procurement would have been for the period it would have come to less than 500 million US dollars. 5 years ago, before the ToT from China to build Patrol vessels and MANPADs came into effect I think the procurement budget was around 50 million dollars a year and BD had signed a billion dollar loan with Russia for military purchases in 2013, most of which have now been delivered(24 Yak-130 reduced to 16 in the end)!
> 
> 
> Dude, admit my far superior mathematical ability has destroyed your arguments totally on this thread and can now bow out like the little champ that you are!



Missed out one thing that all the acquisitions are *long term* installment debt.

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## Michael Corleone

tarpitz said:


> Missed out one thing that all the acquisitions are *long term* installment debt.


only russian 1 billion was on credit.... i don't recall getting any from china for military

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## UKBengali

tarpitz said:


> Missed out one thing that all the acquisitions are *long term* installment debt.



BD is building a more than 1 billion US dollar submarine base using own funds. 
Don't worry subs are for India and not Myanmar.

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## Avicenna

I see tumble weeds in this thread........

Just a quick question.

Is there any reason BD only spends about 1.2% GDP on defence?

Do you guys think that may increase?

Even to 1.5%?

@UKBengali @Arthur @Michael Corleone and any others I am too lazy to tag.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I see tumble weeds in this thread........
> 
> Just a quick question.
> 
> Is there any reason BD only spends about 1.2% GDP on defence?
> 
> Do you guys think that may increase?
> 
> Even to 1.5%?
> 
> @UKBengali @Arthur @Michael Corleone and any others I am too lazy to tag.




It is 1.5% when you include arm purchases as they are not included in the official defence budget.

1.5% will in due course be sufficient as the economy is over 300 billion US dollars and growing at 8% a year now - BD tends to keep overall defence budget at 1.5% of GDP.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> I see tumble weeds in this thread........
> 
> Just a quick question.
> 
> Is there any reason BD only spends about 1.2% GDP on defence?
> 
> Do you guys think that may increase?
> 
> Even to 1.5%?
> 
> @UKBengali @Arthur @Michael Corleone and any others I am too lazy to tag.


If Bangladesh wants any relevancy on the international scene they need to build themselves up both militarily and economically so they can be taken seriously. Bangladesh is still widely seen as just as another 3rd world country, and that has been the fact for its entire history and will be for the foreseeable future until they are able to affirm some sort of power or dominance. The Rohingya Crisis was the golden opportunity for that but it seems that they did not take that opportunity.

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## The Ronin

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE AN-32 | The An-32 is now 43 years old and has been with Bangladesh Air Force for almost three decades now! Bangladesh Air Force An-32s are now fully upgraded with new radar and a whole host of advancements to ensure they fly well in to the future. Notice the indigenously produced GP bombs on the racks. An-32 has the distinction of carrying such munitions compared to other transport aircraft used by the BAF and Army.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE AN-32 | The An-32 is now 43 years old and has been with Bangladesh Air Force for almost three decades now! Bangladesh Air Force An-32s are now fully upgraded with new radar and a whole host of advancements to ensure they fly well in to the future. Notice the indigenously produced GP bombs on the racks. An-32 has the distinction of carrying such munitions compared to other transport aircraft used by the BAF and Army.




Amazing pic!

Looks gorgeous in that camo!

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## Tanveer666

Avicenna said:


> Amazing pic!
> 
> Looks gorgeous in that camo!


43 years old? I thought they were purchased during the late 80s


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## The Ronin

First C-130J Super Hercules (Former RAF ZH-881) of Bangladesh Air Force seen in Marshall ADG area.

Bangladesh Air Force is going to receive thier first C-130J in August and 1/2 more in October/November.Next batch of 2/3 C-130J will be delivered in first quarter of 2020.

PC- On Photo

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## polanski

Guys,
Can you post few photos of Su-30 and Eurofighter Typhoon on Bangladeshi camouflage?

Ohh you posted a photo of pre-shipment inspection of HQ-16A in the year 2016 at PDF. I am guessing the shipment is lost in the sea. Johnny Depp, pirates of Caribbean took the shipment.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Guys,
> Can you post few photos of Su-30 and Eurofighter Typhoon on Bangladeshi camouflage?
> 
> Ohh you posted a photo of pre-shipment inspection of HQ-16A in the year 2016 at PDF. I am guessing the shipment is lost in the sea. Johnny Depp, pirates of Caribbean took the shipment.








Probably whats gonna happen with BAF as well!

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> View attachment 569219
> 
> 
> Probably whats gonna happen with BAF as well!



Ha ha ha LOL. 

We all aspire to something....

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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> 43 years old? I thought they were purchased during the late 80s


Second hand

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## Avicenna

https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/c295w-front-runner-to-replace-an-32-fleet/

Any time table as to when the An-32 will be replaced?

Also, if AEW&C is in the cards and C295W is the platform, the problem is the radar thats been integrated is IAI/ELTA.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/c295-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aewc-aircraft/

Anyone have any knowledge on this?

It's a shame as lack of any alternative radar would prevent BD from buying this.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/c295w-front-runner-to-replace-an-32-fleet/
> 
> Any time table as to when the An-32 will be replaced?
> 
> Also, if AEW&C is in the cards and C295W is the platform, the problem is the radar thats been integrated is IAI/ELTA.
> 
> https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/c295-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aewc-aircraft/
> 
> Anyone have any knowledge on this?
> 
> It's a shame as lack of any alternative radar would prevent BD from buying this.


An 32's will be here for atleast a decade more. It will be replaced, BAF is looking around for a suitable replacement. 

AWACs are still on the planning board. Since no RFI has been issued yet, we can't really say which platforms are being considered. All the talk about CN295 AWAC are mere speculation. And buying a AWACS atm sounds like 'horse before cart ' situation.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> An 32's will be here for atleast a decade more. It will be replaced, BAF is looking around for a suitable replacement.
> 
> AWACs are still on the planning board. Since no RFI has been issued yet, we can't really say which platforms are being considered. All the talk about CN295 AWAC are mere speculation. And buying a AWACS atm sounds like 'horse before cart ' situation.


It all depends on the flight hours innit. It seems BAF Is increasing the number of hours it flies it’s planes all across the board. Given by the seriousness of their intentions to replace... I think sooner like about 2025... who knows


----------



## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> It all depends on the flight hours innit. It seems BAF Is increasing the number of hours it flies it’s planes all across the board. Given by the seriousness of their intentions to replace... I think sooner like about 2025... who knows



Why do you say BAF is increasing flight hours?


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> https://www.bdmilitary.com/defence-procurement/c295w-front-runner-to-replace-an-32-fleet/
> 
> Any time table as to when the An-32 will be replaced?
> 
> Also, if AEW&C is in the cards and C295W is the platform, the problem is the radar thats been integrated is IAI/ELTA.
> 
> https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/c295-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aewc-aircraft/
> 
> Anyone have any knowledge on this?
> 
> It's a shame as lack of any alternative radar would prevent BD from buying this.





Arthur said:


> An 32's will be here for atleast a decade more. It will be replaced, BAF is looking around for a suitable replacement.
> 
> AWACs are still on the planning board. Since no RFI has been issued yet, we can't really say which platforms are being considered. All the talk about CN295 AWAC are mere speculation. And buying a AWACS atm sounds like 'horse before cart ' situation.



I heard they will retire in 2022. As Saudi-Ukraine suspended the An-132D development, C-295W is the only replacement available. Other option is costlier C-27J for us which has the same engine like C-130, so maintenance might be easy. 

And i don't know if it's possible or not to acquire the Israeli radar through third party or if there's any other substitute available. If not then SAAB Erieye is the only option i think. There's another option for us which can be used in various role like C-295. The C-130J which can be used for aerial refueling, surveillance and long range MPA. We can even use the MPA version of C-130 as transport aircraft.

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## The Ronin

*Bangladesh Air Force Chief Opens Marshall Customer Service Centre*

*



*
Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group welcomed Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, Chief of Air Staff of the Bangladesh Air Force, to officially open its new Customer Service Centre.

Air Chief Marshal Serniabat, accompanied by Her Excellency Ms. Saida Muna Tasneem, Bangladesh High Commissioner to London, was welcomed by Sir Michael Marshall and Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group CEO, Alistair McPhee, at a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the new centre at Cambridge Airport. It will house the company’s international military aerospace customers while Marshall engineers work on their aircraft, predominantly C-130 Hercules transport planes, which are employed in critical humanitarian and military missions globally.

Marshall’s customers include the UK RAF, as well as more than 16 international air forces. Among its long-term international customers are the Swedish and the Norwegian Air Forces who Marshall has been supporting since the 1970s.

Most recently the company signed a 14-year agreement with the Royal Netherlands Air Force, and in June a second multi-million-pound contract with Bangladesh, with more contract announcements expected this year.

The new service centre gives them private offices, as well as access to meeting rooms, a comfortable lounge area and kitchen. Two golf buggies and a minibus will transport them around the airport.

Alistair McPhee said,

“We are delighted to welcome Air Chief Marshal Serniabat and proud that he should take time out of his busy schedule to open our new Customer Service Centre,

“We’ve invested in this new space to offer our international customers a seamless experience with us and to benefit from first class accommodation and everything they need in one comfortable location, dedicated to them, with a team to look after their needs while we work on their platforms.”

Customers will be supported by a team of eight dedicated customer service personnel, who will provide administrative support. The new centre provides improved facilities and support infrastructure in one central hub.

During his visit, Air Chief Marshal Serniabat also took the opportunity to visit some of the Bangladesh Air Force’s C-130J aircraft recently purchased from the UK Royal Air Force, and that are currently undergoing in-depth maintenance and modification.

Air Chief Marshal Serniabat, said:

“The Bangladesh Air Force started its cooperation with Marshall last year and we are relying on them to support the entry into service of our new C-130J fleet.

“From the outset Marshall’s customer focus and drive to deliver excellent service has really stood out. This new Customer Service Centre is testimony to their commitment to continuous improvement and confirmation of their ambitious growth plans. It’s an honour for me to officially open this wonderful new facility here in Cambridge today.”

https://marshalladg.com/insights-ne...aYuLRdY_k7TVg9qZLagw7C3KA3Q4_035ND1c6Q_lIuV10

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force Chief Opens Marshall Customer Service Centre*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group welcomed Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, Chief of Air Staff of the Bangladesh Air Force, to officially open its new Customer Service Centre.
> 
> Air Chief Marshal Serniabat, accompanied by Her Excellency Ms. Saida Muna Tasneem, Bangladesh High Commissioner to London, was welcomed by Sir Michael Marshall and Marshall Aerospace and Defence Group CEO, Alistair McPhee, at a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the new centre at Cambridge Airport. It will house the company’s international military aerospace customers while Marshall engineers work on their aircraft, predominantly C-130 Hercules transport planes, which are employed in critical humanitarian and military missions globally.
> 
> Marshall’s customers include the UK RAF, as well as more than 16 international air forces. Among its long-term international customers are the Swedish and the Norwegian Air Forces who Marshall has been supporting since the 1970s.
> 
> Most recently the company signed a 14-year agreement with the Royal Netherlands Air Force, and in June a second multi-million-pound contract with Bangladesh, with more contract announcements expected this year.
> 
> The new service centre gives them private offices, as well as access to meeting rooms, a comfortable lounge area and kitchen. Two golf buggies and a minibus will transport them around the airport.
> 
> Alistair McPhee said,
> 
> “We are delighted to welcome Air Chief Marshal Serniabat and proud that he should take time out of his busy schedule to open our new Customer Service Centre,
> 
> “We’ve invested in this new space to offer our international customers a seamless experience with us and to benefit from first class accommodation and everything they need in one comfortable location, dedicated to them, with a team to look after their needs while we work on their platforms.”
> 
> Customers will be supported by a team of eight dedicated customer service personnel, who will provide administrative support. The new centre provides improved facilities and support infrastructure in one central hub.
> 
> During his visit, Air Chief Marshal Serniabat also took the opportunity to visit some of the Bangladesh Air Force’s C-130J aircraft recently purchased from the UK Royal Air Force, and that are currently undergoing in-depth maintenance and modification.
> 
> Air Chief Marshal Serniabat, said:
> 
> “The Bangladesh Air Force started its cooperation with Marshall last year and we are relying on them to support the entry into service of our new C-130J fleet.
> 
> “From the outset Marshall’s customer focus and drive to deliver excellent service has really stood out. This new Customer Service Centre is testimony to their commitment to continuous improvement and confirmation of their ambitious growth plans. It’s an honour for me to officially open this wonderful new facility here in Cambridge today.”
> 
> https://marshalladg.com/insights-ne...aYuLRdY_k7TVg9qZLagw7C3KA3Q4_035ND1c6Q_lIuV10



I guess that's good.

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## aliaselin

Fighter Mig-29 F-7
Units 1 2
Theory 16 32
Real 8 36
Attack Yak-130 L-39
Units 1 1
Theory 16 16
Real 13 7

I have recently done statistics for air force in the world. BD air force does not even fullfill its three squadron fighters?

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## Avicenna

aliaselin said:


> Fighter Mig-29 F-7
> Units 1 2
> Theory 16 32
> Real 8 36
> Attack Yak-130 L-39
> Units 1 1
> Theory 16 16
> Real 13 7
> 
> I have recently done statistics for air force in the world. BD air force does not even fullfill its three squadron fighters?



Yes you are more or less correct.

8 early model Mig-29

15 F-7BG

16 F-7 BGI

I'm not sure how many original F-7MB are still in service. Maybe around 8?

13 Yak-130

8 K-8W

7 L-39

And there we have it.

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## aliaselin

Avicenna said:


> Yes you are more or less correct.
> 
> 8 early model Mig-29
> 
> 15 F-7BG
> 
> 16 F-7 BGI
> 
> I'm not sure how many original F-7MB are still in service. Maybe around 8?
> 
> 13 Yak-130
> 
> 8 K-8W
> 
> 7 L-39
> 
> And there we have it.


I have done the statitcs not only based on numbers but also units, in this way it is more correct, because if there is a new unit formed or cancelled, it is more likely to become a news and wide spread. With this study method, we know that BD air for have 1 unit for mig-29, the 8th squadron, but the number is not fullfilled, so we can easily get a conlucison that BD air force may complement it in near future. For F-7, there are 2 unit, and the news that BD air force has bought two squadron of F-7BG（I）is well-known, so we can safely say BD air force may have retired almost all of its F-7MB. If there is no more new unit formed or planed, BD air force will not buy more than 8 new fighters in the near future.

With the same method, I have got the conclusion that Myanmar has one unit of F-7 replaced by JF-17 and cancelled one unit of A-5, while Indian may have only 30 combat sqaudrons in action though 42 in paper

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## Avicenna

aliaselin said:


> I have done the statitcs not only based on numbers but also units, in this way it is more correct, because if there is a new unit formed or cancelled, it is more likely to become a news and wide spread. With this study method, we know that BD air for have 1 unit for mig-29, the 8th squadron, but the number is not fullfilled, so we can easily get a conlucison that BD air force may complement it in near future. For F-7, there are 2 unit, and the news that BD air force has bought two squadron of F-7BG（I）is well-known, so we can safely say BD air force may have retired almost all of its F-7MB. If there is no more new unit formed or planed, BD air force will not buy more than 8 new fighters in the near future.
> 
> With the same method, I have got the conclusion that Myanmar has one unit of F-7 replaced by JF-17 and cancelled one unit of A-5, while Indian may have only 30 combat sqaudrons in action though 42 in paper



1 half strength squadron of Mig-29.

One squadron each of F-7BG and BGI.

I've seen pics of the F-7MB and infact one crashed off the coast of Chittagong as late as 2015 I beleive.

They may still be in service but not sure.

The others are trainers for the most part; the Yaks having their own squadron.

I'm not sure about the K-8W and L-39 although the latter are on their way out supposedly when the new K-8W arrive.

As for new units being formed?

I hope so.

They are apparently upgrading Cox's Bazar and building 2 new airbases in Barisal and Sylhet.

One would think if Forces Goal 2030 is valid and their goal of 10 squadrons is actually for real, you should be seeing some activity reflecting that.

I, for one am highly skeptical.

Also, good luck in your efforts with the research and tabulating numbers.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Why do you say BAF is increasing flight hours?


They’re operating more patrols from base to base and trying to bring up inactive bases into peak operational capacity. Their recent activities suggest they’re not lying around to rot away

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re operating more patrols from base to base and trying to bring up inactive bases into peak operational capacity. Their recent activities suggest they’re not lying around to rot away



I’ve noticed the LETs are flying a lot on flightradar 24.

Perhaps preparing for the new C-130J?

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## The Ronin

*235 more posts to be created for BAF Base Zahurul Haque*

The government is going to create 235 additional posts for the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) Base Zahurul Haque in Chattogram. At the same time, the post of the chief of the air base would be upgraded to Air Commodore from the existing Group Captain, say government sources.

Recently, the Secretary Committee on Administrative Improvement Affairs recommended creation of the 235 new posts, the sources added. At present, there are 415 posts in the BAF base.


*Of the 235 posts, one post of Air Commodore, four posts of Group Captain, seven posts of Wing Commander, 16 posts of Squadron Leader, three posts of Flight Lieutenant, *35 posts of Master Warrant Officer and 47 posts of Senior Warrant Officer would be created, said the proposal sent recently to the Finance Division from the defence ministry. The Finance Division has approved the proposal for creating the new posts.

But it has advised to appoint people in some posts like muajjin, cook, mess waiter, ward boy and gardener through outsourcing after taking the necessary permission from the authorities concerned in this regard.

According to the proposal, the authorities concerned are going to change the name of ‘Air Force Training Wing’ to ‘Biman Sena Proshikhan Pratisthan’ (Airmen Training Institute). The Secretary Committee on Administrative Improvement affairs has recently recommended the change of the name.

The Air Force Training Wing, which is running under this air base, is providing training to airmen since 1975. Since then, it has been functioning to build the main working force of BAF and developing supervisors of different levels.

So far, more than 28,000 trainees from home and abroad have been successfully completed their training from this wing, which has also trained personnel from the Bangladesh Army, Navy and the Sri Lankan Air Force.

http://m.theindependentbd.com/post/...BdtZJ57bxP-dn0DLi9QPltBlCuVMZ4yv-WBV-teOvJkFI

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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> *235 more posts to be created for BAF Base Zahurul Haque*
> 
> The government is going to create 235 additional posts for the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) Base Zahurul Haque in Chattogram. At the same time, the post of the chief of the air base would be upgraded to Air Commodore from the existing Group Captain, say government sources.
> 
> Recently, the Secretary Committee on Administrative Improvement Affairs recommended creation of the 235 new posts, the sources added. At present, there are 415 posts in the BAF base.
> 
> 
> *Of the 235 posts, one post of Air Commodore, four posts of Group Captain, seven posts of Wing Commander, 16 posts of Squadron Leader, three posts of Flight Lieutenant, *35 posts of Master Warrant Officer and 47 posts of Senior Warrant Officer would be created, said the proposal sent recently to the Finance Division from the defence ministry. The Finance Division has approved the proposal for creating the new posts.
> 
> But it has advised to appoint people in some posts like muajjin, cook, mess waiter, ward boy and gardener through outsourcing after taking the necessary permission from the authorities concerned in this regard.
> 
> According to the proposal, the authorities concerned are going to change the name of ‘Air Force Training Wing’ to ‘Biman Sena Proshikhan Pratisthan’ (Airmen Training Institute). The Secretary Committee on Administrative Improvement affairs has recently recommended the change of the name.
> 
> The Air Force Training Wing, which is running under this air base, is providing training to airmen since 1975. Since then, it has been functioning to build the main working force of BAF and developing supervisors of different levels.
> 
> So far, more than 28,000 trainees from home and abroad have been successfully completed their training from this wing, which has also trained personnel from the Bangladesh Army, Navy and the Sri Lankan Air Force.
> 
> http://m.theindependentbd.com/post/...BdtZJ57bxP-dn0DLi9QPltBlCuVMZ4yv-WBV-teOvJkFI



Nonsensical waste of money. Unless and until there is a coherent role for BAF not a single taka should be spent on this useless outfit.

The whole thing sounds like a joke.... air commodore, squadron leaders....
How many squadron of assets do we have...

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## Arthur

The Ronin said:


> The amounts of squadron leaders means anything? @Arthur @BDforever


In terms of airframes in service? No.
This increase in number only indicates a Desk clerk Force.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> In terms of airframes in service? No.
> This increase in number only indicates a Desk clerk Force.



I wonder if BAF should hire some consultants or something to clean up and make more efficient their operation.

Perhaps get some folks from RAF or a private entity to help or something.


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I wonder if BAF should hire some consultants or something to clean up and make more efficient their operation.
> 
> Perhaps get some folks from RAF or a private entity to help or something.


BAFs fleet & inventory shouldn't require large number of personnel, let even so many high ranking officials. BD airspace isn't that big, nor we need to counter our adversaries 1 on 1.

A potent air force were never impossible to build, considering we had history with both RAF & PAF.

But keeping the rank happy & fat has more priority here. Your post has merit, but BAF establishment is just.... you know.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> BAFs fleet & inventory shouldn't require large number of personnel, let even so many high ranking officials. BD airspace isn't that big, nor we need to counter our adversaries 1 on 1.
> 
> A potent air force were never impossible to build, considering we had history with both RAF & PAF.
> 
> But keeping the rank happy & fat has more priority here. Your post has merit, but BAF establishment is just.... you know.



Yea I’m just a Bengali immigrant to the US looking at it from a detached semi objective viewpoint.

But I acknowledge what you are saying completely.

It’s quite a shame.

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## monitor

All of the five C-130Js of Bangladesh Air Force are to be delivered by the end of 2019. Source:-IHS Jane's

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## Avicenna

monitor said:


> All of the five C-130Js of Bangladesh Air Force are to be delivered by the end of 2019. Source:-IHS Jane's



I hate the roundels and flag.

Just seems so out of place in that color scheme. 

But otherwise great news!

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I’ve noticed the LETs are flying a lot on flightradar 24.
> 
> Perhaps preparing for the new C-130J?






Avicenna said:


> I hate the roundels and flag.
> 
> Just seems so out of place in that color scheme.
> 
> But otherwise great news!


Color scheme of these new ones are off to me. 
Anyways there are plans to have at least 12 of c130s for various operations. 
Word is they want to have the capability to deploy special forces within 4 within country or 48 hours world wide.

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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> 48 hours world wide.


That's pretty ambitious. 
Just out of curiosity, any reason why would we want to achieve that?


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> That's pretty ambitious.
> Just out of curiosity, any reason why would we want to achieve that?


UN missions seems like a good bet. Many good men died unnecessarily when they didn’t get the support in time.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> I’ve noticed the LETs are flying a lot on flightradar 24.
> 
> Perhaps preparing for the new C-130J?



If you're hinting at air-to-air refuel capability - they should have had rolled that in decades ago. Every other airforce in the region of significant size has that capability, except us. Same thing with AWACS. ATA Refueling is a must for deep strike capability inside Simian territory. But then again, what we have is an AIR FARCE, not air force.



> Color scheme of these new ones are off to me.
> Anyways there are plans to have at least 12 of c130s for various operations.
> Word is they want to have the capability to deploy special forces within 4 within country or 48 hours world wide.



IMHO, the White contrast band around the roundel (in the size as shown for the C130) is too thin. It needs to be more pronounced, thicker and whiter. There needs to be a balance between the contrast of the colors.







Generally - the roundel on the C-130 is way big, almost too big in my opinion (especially on the fuselage). That is partly the reason it looks odd.


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> If you're hinting at air-to-air refuel capability - they should have had rolled that in decades ago. Every other airforce in the region of significant size has that capability, except us. Same thing with AWACS. ATA Refueling is a must for deep strike capability inside Simian territory. But then again, what we have is an AIR FARCE, not air force.
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, the White contrast band around the roundel (in the size as shown for the C130) is too thin. It needs to be more pronounced, thicker and whiter. There needs to be a balance between the contrast of the colors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Generally - the roundel on the C-130 is way big, almost too big in my opinion (especially on the fuselage). That is partly the reason it looks odd.



I actually wasn't referring to A2A refueling.

I just meant the LETs were up more often to train new transport crew for the incoming C-130J.

In terms of A2A refueling however, yes clearly the BAF is lacking.

In many capabilities.

I don't know if they really take themselves seriously or its another Biman phenomenon going on.

Also, whats up with preparing yourself with UN commitments and ignoring your commitments to the self defense of the nation.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> I actually wasn't referring to A2A refueling.
> 
> I just meant the LETs were up more often to train new transport crew for the incoming C-130J.
> 
> In terms of A2A refueling however, yes clearly the BAF is lacking.
> 
> In many capabilities.
> 
> I don't know if they really take themselves seriously or its another Biman phenomenon going on.
> 
> Also, whats up with preparing yourself with UN commitments and ignoring your commitments to the self defense of the nation.



Believe me - these guys are milking the UN thing for all it is worth. Self-defense is nowhere at the top of their agenda, petty financial self-fulfillment however definitely is! A gift that keeps on giving!

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> Believe me - these guys are milking the UN thing for all it is worth. Self-defense is nowhere at the top of their agenda, petty financial self-fulfillment however definitely is! A gift that keeps on giving!



If that is the case government is to blame.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> If that is the case government is to blame.



If the govt. guys get the cuts (I am pretty sure they do) then they will for sure look the other way. The rot always starts at the top....


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## The Ronin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1157321818920955904

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1157321818920955904



Tough little birds. Usually they paint the radomes flat black with special paint so the radars can 'see' better.


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2327796293935550









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1205399029637005















__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2350068938374952









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1212209272289314





Newly delivered AW-139 Search & Rescue helicopter of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF)

PC- Sk Rayan

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## ghost250

The Bangladesh Air Force attempted to purchase American or Western fighters numerous times in its history. Each time the American's displayed their opposition. Wikileaks reveals how the US contributed to Bangladesh getting closer to the Chinese.

This is relevant today because the American's are focusing on the "East" trying to increase influence with strategically important countries.

"EMBASSY SHOULD INFORM MFA THAT WE CANNOT APPROVE PROPOSED SALE OF F-104 AND G-91Y AIRCRAFT TO BANGLADESH, SINCE THE US ITSELF WOULD NOT PROVIDE THOSE OR COMPARABLE TYPES OF AIRCRAFT TO BANGLADESH."

The US also made sure NATO allies such as Italy also never sold their fighters to the Bangladesh Air Force even if US did not even built aircraft such as the G-91.

This also occurred with the request for F-5 and F-4 Phantom II' fighters BAF requested earlier.












#Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis

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## Avicenna

I was looking for this pic.....

Evidence that F-7MB is still in service at least up until 9/2018 when this pic was taken at CXB.

Anyone know how many are left?

Also looks to belong to No.25 squadron.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I was looking for this pic.....
> 
> Evidence that F-7MB is still in service at least up until 9/2018 when this pic was taken at CXB.
> 
> Anyone know how many are left?
> 
> Also looks to belong to No.25 squadron.


2 FT 7 MB & 4/6 F 7 MB.




Avicenna said:


> I was looking for this pic.....
> 
> Evidence that F-7MB is still in service at least up until 9/2018 when this pic was taken at CXB.
> 
> Anyone know how many are left?
> 
> Also looks to belong to No.25 squadron.


After this first refusal in late seventies BD under ershad bought F7, A5 & BNS Osman from China.

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## Avicenna

Hey BAF! This one goes out to you!!!!

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Hey BAF! This one goes out to you!!!!


Man, it's... just perfect!!

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Man, it's... just perfect!!



I know right!!!!

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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> The Bangladesh Air Force attempted to purchase American or Western fighters numerous times in its history. Each time the American's displayed their opposition. Wikileaks reveals how the US contributed to Bangladesh getting closer to the Chinese.
> 
> This is relevant today because the American's are focusing on the "East" trying to increase influence with strategically important countries.
> 
> "EMBASSY SHOULD INFORM MFA THAT WE CANNOT APPROVE PROPOSED SALE OF F-104 AND G-91Y AIRCRAFT TO BANGLADESH, SINCE THE US ITSELF WOULD NOT PROVIDE THOSE OR COMPARABLE TYPES OF AIRCRAFT TO BANGLADESH."
> 
> The US also made sure NATO allies such as Italy also never sold their fighters to the Bangladesh Air Force even if US did not even built aircraft such as the G-91.
> 
> This also occurred with the request for F-5 and F-4 Phantom II' fighters BAF requested earlier.
> 
> View attachment 573051
> View attachment 573052
> View attachment 573053
> 
> 
> #Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis


Given the terrible economic and political condition of the time... no wonder America kept on refusing.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Given the terrible economic and political condition of the time... no wonder America kept on refusing.



Yea here’s to hoping it’s different now.

BTW any word on buying anything?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Hey BAF! This one goes out to you!!!!


Lmao this is hilarious



Avicenna said:


> Yea here’s to hoping it’s different now.
> 
> BTW any word on buying anything?


No fresh news just that the c130 is being procured....
But given the other bd mil rival page is claiming they first talked about the c130, and claiming EFT will be purchased... let’s see. 
They mocked bd military for mentioning every fighter in the book but the reality is all though fighters were considered, nearly approved, passed in favor of others and reconsidered again.

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## polanski

If US opposes fighter acquisition then how are you getting excess defences articles from the US. Basically you don't know how US defense export works. Excess Defense Article for second hand goods. Give me an example where the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh notified US DoD of intention to procure fighter jets through Foreign Military Sale. Give me copy of letter where you notified Foreign Military Sale. https://www.dsca.mil/programs

Stop spreading stupid propaganda. US sale military equipment to anyone who pays cash. You want loan forgiveness which the US doesn't do. Go to China and Russia and beg loan forgiveness.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> If US opposes fighter acquisition then how are you getting excess defences articles from the US. Basically you don't know how US defense export works. Excess Defense Article for second hand goods. Give me an example where the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh notified US DoD of intention to procure fighter jets through Foreign Military Sale. Give me copy of letter where you notified Foreign Military Sale. https://www.dsca.mil/programs
> 
> Stop spreading stupid propaganda. US sale military equipment to anyone who pays cash. You want loan forgiveness which the US doesn't do. Go to China and Russia and beg loan forgiveness.


Give you a copy? What are you some US govt after sales tech support? 
You’re a twat and you know that

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Give you a copy? What are you some US govt after sales tech support?
> You’re a twat and you know that



LOL.

I like his posts for the entertainment value mostly.

But sometimes he brings up good points.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Give you a copy? What are you some US govt after sales tech support?
> You’re a twat and you know that


In one sentence you say US rejected your request to buy fighter jets and next sentence you get excess defense Article. Get your sentences correct. Stop blaming US for your failure. I think someone in thread already said that Bangladesh looked at all fighter jets in the book but didn't buy anything. Focus on China and Russia. Stop bringing US in the conversation or I will tell the truth. When you publish MRCA hoax, did US intervene? So why do you blame everything to others? Can't you self reflect? You don't like truths. You can't afford $60m Russian junk, stop bringing America in this thread.
It's early morning in Dhaka? Are you finishing your late night pdf shift or early morning pdf shift?


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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> In one sentence you say US rejected your request to buy fighter jets and next sentence you get excess defense Article. Get your sentences correct. Stop blaming US for your failure. I think someone in thread already said that Bangladesh looked at all fighter jets in the book but didn't buy anything. Focus on China and Russia. Stop bringing US in the conversation or I will tell the truth. When you publish MRCA hoax, did US intervene? So why do you blame everything to others? Can't you self reflect? You don't like truths. You can't afford $60m Russian junk, stop bringing America in this thread.
> It's early morning in Dhaka? Are you finishing your late night pdf shift or early morning pdf shift?



Wrong connection. 
Excess defence articles like Coastguard ships are not the same as buying fighter jets.

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## polanski

UKBengali said:


> Wrong connection.
> Excess defence articles like Coastguard ships are not the same as buying fighter jets.


You can get F-16A/B from excess defense Article. Point is, everyone blame America for their failure in this forum. you can buy products wherever you choose to buy from but stop blaming America. Bangladesh has only few billions dollars defense budget.
If Bangladesh really wanted American fighter jet, they could have gone to Foriegn Military sale and buy $70m F-16V or $65m F/A-18E. America is a capitalist country, they don't block any Foriegn buyer in particular defense sales.

American recently agreed to approve upgrade package of Pakistani F-16C/D to F-16V model for $1.2B. That's the reality, money talks in America. American suppliers sale arms to African countries. This was unthinkable few years back.
Do whatever you like to do. Don't blame us.

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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> You can get F-16A/B from excess defense Article. Point is, everyone blame America for their failure in this forum. you can buy products wherever you choose to buy from but stop blaming America. Bangladesh has only few billions dollars defense budget.
> If Bangladesh really wanted American fighter jet, they could have gone to Foriegn Military sale and buy $70m F-16V or $65m F/A-18E. America is a capitalist country, they don't block any Foriegn buyer in particular defense sales.
> 
> American recently agreed to approve upgrade package of Pakistani F-16C/D to F-16V model for $1.2B. That's the reality, money talks in America. American suppliers sale arms to African countries. This was unthinkable few years back.
> Do whatever you like to do. Don't blame us.



BD defence budget is around 4.5-5 billion US dollars when you take arms imports into account. It can afford 1-2 squadrons of the latest F-16s.
Just because US will sell latest F-16 to Pakistan does not mean it will do the same to BD. 
You are right that BD needs to ask first for specific items and then see US response.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> In one sentence you say US rejected your request to buy fighter jets and next sentence you get excess defense Article. Get your sentences correct. Stop blaming US for your failure. I think someone in thread already said that Bangladesh looked at all fighter jets in the book but didn't buy anything. Focus on China and Russia. Stop bringing US in the conversation or I will tell the truth. When you publish MRCA hoax, did US intervene? So why do you blame everything to others? Can't you self reflect? You don't like truths. You can't afford $60m Russian junk, stop bringing America in this thread.
> It's early morning in Dhaka? Are you finishing your late night pdf shift or early morning pdf shift?


Lmao this cuck is mistaking me for someone else. Tell the truth b



polanski said:


> You can get F-16A/B from excess defense Article. Point is, everyone blame America for their failure in this forum. you can buy products wherever you choose to buy from but stop blaming America. Bangladesh has only few billions dollars defense budget.
> If Bangladesh really wanted American fighter jet, they could have gone to Foriegn Military sale and buy $70m F-16V or $65m F/A-18E. America is a capitalist country, they don't block any Foriegn buyer in particular defense sales.
> 
> American recently agreed to approve upgrade package of Pakistani F-16C/D to F-16V model for $1.2B. That's the reality, money talks in America. American suppliers sale arms to African countries. This was unthinkable few years back.
> Do whatever you like to do. Don't blame us.


No one is blaming America. America wouldn’t sell offensive weapons to a least developed economy. Given that the economy has graduated to middle income unofficially, America is now open to selling limited offensive capability

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## polanski

UKBengali said:


> BD defence budget is around 4.5-5 billion US dollars when you take arms imports into account. It can afford 1-2 squadrons of the latest F-16s.
> Just because US will sell latest F-16 to Pakistan does not mean it will do the same to BD.
> You are right that BD needs to ask first for specific items and then see US response.


America is selling offensive weapons to countries like Afghanistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Thailand, Central Africa, Morocco, Colombia, Chile and most recently Vietnam which means there is no boundaries when comes to capitalism. Defense market is very competitive. If America doesn't sell others will sale. British, Italian and French don't bother about democracy and low income/middle income nonsense theory. Loas wants to buy fighter jets considering Laos doesnt have recognizable economy.

American sold arms to countries where human rights violations is worse such as Thailand and Saudi Arabia. Why does America do that? To protect existing defense market and stop China supplying alternative military gears. I can go on...

Self reflect is the only way a nation can prosper. US Ambassador to Dhaka said that Bangladesh is an example of economic development. That's true. Military needs to self reflect instead of blaming Russia for MRCA and America for rest of the failure. In the pile posts, I can't find another comment from an idiot who blamed India for the conditions Bangladeshi Air Guard (Not Force). Maybe this is how it works in Bangladesh. Everyone blames everyone except themselves. 

Lesson:
Bangladesh military is not run by children that you invite one party in an MRCA competition. That's how Russian ripped off Indian for 50 years. India doesn't do that anymore.
India always invites Americans and European in any competition so that they enjoy financial rebate.


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## Avicenna

Yep......there's more action in that pic than this thread.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2363612233687289

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2363612233687289



I am liking this!

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## Arthur

Thankfully this acquisition will take our C-130 fleet to 10.

4 - C130 B (Not going anywhere atleast for another decade)

5 - C 130 J

1- C130 H

we have

3 An 32 C

3 LET 410 E 

& 

52 Mi 17 
12 Bel 212
4 AW 139 
2 AW 119
4-6 Bell Jetranger helis. 

Total 16 fixed wing aircraft around 70 Helicopters. Not bad. Not Bad at all.

Keep up the acquisition. A complete Para Infantry brigade demands a complete transport package. 

Cheers 


EDIT: Adding the context, since some people are...... -_- 



Avicenna said:


> I am liking this!

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Thankfully this acquisition will take our C-130 fleet to 10.
> 
> 4 - C130 B (Not going anywhere atleast for another decade)
> 
> 5 - C 130 J
> 
> 1- C130 H
> 
> we have
> 
> 3 An 32 C
> 
> 2 LET 410 E
> 
> &
> 
> 62 Mi 17
> 12 Bel 212
> 4 AW 139
> 2 AW 109
> 4 Bell Jetranger helis.
> 
> Total 15 fixed wing aircraft around 70 Helicopters. Not bad. Not Bad at all.
> 
> Keep up the acquisition. A complete Para Infantry brigade demands a complete transport package.
> 
> Cheers



I thought it was 3 LETs.

Also where is the C-130H coming from?

Also also I didn't realize we had so many Mi-17/171!


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I thought it was 3 LETs.
> 
> Also where is the C-130H coming from?
> 
> Also also I didn't realize we had so many Mi-17/171!


United States of A


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> United States of A



Why a lone C-130H?


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> I thought it was 3 LETs.
> 
> Also where is the C-130H coming from?
> 
> Also also I didn't realize we had so many Mi-17/171!



That number of Mi-17 and Mi-171's seems to be a typo to me.....


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Why a lone C-130H?


Well after years of talk & talk, that's what US agreed to. AF walas are amazing. 




Bilal9 said:


> That number of Mi-17 and Mi-171's seems to be a typo to me.....



Yes, it was. But not for long. Maybe.

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## VikingRaider

Arthur said:


> Thankfully this acquisition will take our C-130 fleet to 10.
> 
> 4 - C130 B (Not going anywhere atleast for another decade)
> 
> 5 - C 130 J
> 
> 1- C130 H
> 
> we have
> 
> 3 An 32 C
> 
> 3 LET 410 E
> 
> &
> 
> 52 Mi 17
> 12 Bel 212
> 4 AW 139
> 2 AW 119
> 4-6 Bell Jetranger helis.
> 
> Total 16 fixed wing aircraft around 70 Helicopters. Not bad. Not Bad at all.
> 
> Keep up the acquisition. A complete Para Infantry brigade demands a complete transport package.
> 
> Cheers


But man when we are going to get 10 squadron of fighters? Or is this number highly exaggerated? @Arthur

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## Arthur

Atlas said:


> But man when we are going to get 10 squadron of fighters? Or is this number highly exaggerated? @Arthur


10 squadron??!!

They couldn't even buy a single one in last 10 years. 10 squadron is a pipedream now. 

I doubt they could even field 5 by 2030.

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## VikingRaider

Arthur said:


> 10 squadron??!!
> 
> They couldn't even buy a single one in last 10 years. 10 squadron is a pipedream now.
> 
> I doubt they could even field 5 by 2030.


It's a disappointment. We need to make our airforce stronger!


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## The Ronin

Arthur said:


> 52 Mi 17
> 12 Bel 212
> 4 AW 139
> 2 AW 119
> 4-6 Bell Jetranger helis.





Arthur said:


> 70 Helicopters.



Looks like more in the pipeline. 

https://www.defseca.com/special/ove...4nwTMdwCM4CoecS4wCBpcwWH-6MBM3sPr7lP-x4zGgkYw

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Why a lone C-130H?


because that's what daddy considers us worthy of buying. 1 single frame


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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> because that's what daddy considers us worthy of buying. 1 single frame



Well there was a underhanded reason for them to do that. They wanted BAF to throw some business toward US defence companies. 

Instead of buying more airframes, they wanted BAF to go to some private companies for life extension upgrade to those 4 B models in service. 

After repeatedly getting rejected, BAF bought few new engines & spares for the airframes, overhauled the 4'th B airframe & put it back to service. All 4 airframes went through extensive overhauling to keep them flying for 8-10 years. All the overhauling were done in Malaysia, most probably between 2010-'15. 

BAF succeeded in buying the J models, just because RAF was desperate to get rid of them & BAF was desperate for newer airframes. Got a good deal though.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> because that's what daddy considers us worthy of buying. 1 single frame



Sounds like you're complaining to vacuum of black holes. 

Did you ask Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi or Embraer to submit RFI or RFP to Bangladeshi procurement department or DGDP? 
I still don't know why Bangladesh is always stuck in cheap Excess Defense Article? It takes very long time to settle access defense article because those items directly comes from military then defense contractors decommission them and put on hold. Some excess defense articles are put on sale list in advance before it is actually available for buyers. 

What do you do with almost US$4 billions defense budget? Maybe massage with happy ending!!! Here is the address of foreign military sale.

Defense Security Cooperation Agency
2800 Defense Pentagon
Washington, DC 20301-2800
USA

*Telephone:*
+1 (703) 697-9709

*For DSCA Public Affairs Queries:*
Public Affairs Queries

*Email DSCA:*
Info Mailbox

*Web *
*www.dsca.mil *

This is how it works. Alternatively, contact Lockheed Martin and ask them to supply military transport aircraft. Lockheed Martin will take care of everything. It took India to learn several years how American Foreign Military sale works. Now they know how to deal with it. Arabs are very special case when comes to American Foreign military sale. 
Good Luck. 


Michael Corleone said:


> because that's what daddy considers us worthy of buying. 1 single frame


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## bdslph

GUYS ANY UPDATE ON 

EF FIGHTER TYPHOON (I HEARD SOMETHING ABT IT IS IT EVEN TRUE) BAF IS IN TALKS FOR RAF EX EF

J10 C


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## Homo Sapiens

Arthur said:


> 52 Mi 17
> 12 Bel 212
> 4 AW 139
> 2 AW 119
> 4-6 Bell Jetranger helis.
> 
> Total 16 fixed wing aircraft around 70 Helicopters. Not bad. Not Bad at all


Are these figure include future acquisition? Fifty two Mi-17 seems over the board for current BAF. Other sources says, BAF has currently 31 Mi-17/171sh


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## Bilal9

I know getting these are a long way off (or some would say not possible), but glamour shots are always good to watch...

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Sounds like you're complaining to vacuum of black holes.
> 
> Did you ask Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi or Embraer to submit RFI or RFP to Bangladeshi procurement department or DGDP?
> I still don't know why Bangladesh is always stuck in cheap Excess Defense Article? It takes very long time to settle access defense article because those items directly comes from military then defense contractors decommission them and put on hold. Some excess defense articles are put on sale list in advance before it is actually available for buyers.
> 
> What do you do with almost US$4 billions defense budget? Maybe massage with happy ending!!! Here is the address of foreign military sale.
> 
> Defense Security Cooperation Agency
> 2800 Defense Pentagon
> Washington, DC 20301-2800
> USA
> 
> *Telephone:*
> +1 (703) 697-9709
> 
> *For DSCA Public Affairs Queries:*
> Public Affairs Queries
> 
> *Email DSCA:*
> Info Mailbox
> 
> *Web *
> *www.dsca.mil *
> 
> This is how it works. Alternatively, contact Lockheed Martin and ask them to supply military transport aircraft. Lockheed Martin will take care of everything. It took India to learn several years how American Foreign Military sale works. Now they know how to deal with it. Arabs are very special case when comes to American Foreign military sale.
> Good Luck.


well for one. brand new is definitely not our ball game yet... US ambassadors have proposed bangladesh on buying from them recently but our govt. told them we will buy if it's affordable... pfft

that's why we are stuck to EDA


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## polanski

Bilal9 said:


> I know getting these are a long way off (or some would say not possible), but glamour shots are always good to watch...


You're high on drugs. See a doctor. Buy a men's health magazine to improve deficiencies.


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> You're high on drugs. See a doctor. Buy a men's health magazine to improve deficiencies.



LOL!

Even with the delays in getting a new fighter.

You would think the F-7 will need replacement at some point.

In your honest non trolling opinion what do you think BAF will end up buying?

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> LOL!
> 
> Even with the delays in getting a new fighter.
> 
> You would think the F-7 will need replacement at some point.
> 
> In your honest non trolling opinion what do you think BAF will end up buying?


BAG( not BAF ) is a day dreamer and incompetent organization. Today they ask for Eurofighter Typhoon which cost almost US$200m a piece tomorrow they ask for $50m J-10. Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 would cost $80m+.
Consider $.3.87B budget. If you allocate at least at least $1B out of that money then you can get good size bang for bucks. But I wouldn't bet anything when comes to Bangladesh military. We are dealing with bounce of people who doesn't know what they're doing and obviously doesn't care about national security or defense policy. If you try to help them they think otherwise. It's like my little brother who has mind of his own, demand after hours action when I am at work during business hours.
How are you gonna integrate Chinese and Russian radar, comms and command post with Eurofighter Typhoon. You have only one Leonardo Ground Master to be installed in one geographic location.
Now you realize BAG doesn't know what are they doing? Isn't Typhoon a pipedream? Find oil reserves like the Arabs.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> BAG( not BAF ) is a day dreamer and incompetent organization. Today they ask for Eurofighter Typhoon which cost almost US$200m a piece tomorrow they ask for $50m J-10. Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 would cost $80m+.
> Consider $.3.87B budget. If you allocate at least at least $1B out of that money then you can get good size bang for bucks. But I wouldn't bet anything when comes to Bangladesh military. We are dealing with bounce of people who doesn't know what they're doing and obviously doesn't care about national security or defense policy. If you try to help them they think otherwise. It's like my little brother who has mind of his own, demand after hours action when I am at work during business hours.
> How are you gonna integrate Chinese and Russian radar, comms and command post with Eurofighter Typhoon. You have only one Leonardo Ground Master to be installed in one geographic location.
> Now you realize BAG doesn't know what are they doing? Isn't Typhoon a pipedream? Find oil reserves like the Arabs.



Maybe so.

But answer the question.

What do YOU think BAF will FINALLY buy?

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> Maybe so.
> 
> But answer the question.
> 
> What do YOU think BAF will FINALLY buy?


Nothing. If they wanted to buy. They would have done so. There are many opportunities in Europe and America to buy fighter jets. Manufacturers are crying to sale fighter jets. Even bend over to sale the fighter jets.
Line of credit available from BAE Systems, Saab Defense, Leonardo, Sukhoi and Chengdu. Lockheed Martin is desperately lobbied to sale F-16V to Taiwan. Boeing is lobbying to Canada and India to sale advanced Super Hornet.
My answer is same. BAG would not buy fighter jet. I am happy to be proven wrong.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Nothing. If they wanted to buy. They would have done so. There are many opportunities in Europe and America to buy fighter jets. Manufacturers are crying to sale fighter jets. Even bend over to sale the fighter jets.
> Line of credit available from BAE Systems, Saab Defense, Leonardo, Sukhoi and Chengdu. Lockheed Martin is desperately lobbied to sale F-16V to Taiwan. Boeing is lobbying to Canada and India to sale advanced Super Hornet.
> My answer is same. BAG would not buy fighter jet. I am happy to be proven wrong.



So the F-7 is the last fighter in BAF service?


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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> So the F-7 is the last fighter in BAF service?


I guess so. Look how many years you're posting comments here. During the time, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore, India and Myanmar placed order of fighter jets and manufacturers delivered them promptly. With a big exception Bangladesh.
If Bangladeshi private sector starts to lobby like Indian TASL, Reliance and Adani then things may change. I don't know Bangladeshi private sector so I can't tell anything about that.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> I guess so. Look how many years you're posting comments here. During the time, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore, India and Myanmar placed order of fighter jets and manufacturers delivered them promptly. With a big exception Bangladesh.



What?

Oct. 2016 is my first post here.

Most of those countries you listed havn't bought anything since then with the exception of Myanmar and the Phillipines.

Choosing and buying a fighter takes time.

I agree the BAF is waaaaaay behind.

But to say the F-7 is it......is stupid.

Something will be bought.

My question was simply what YOU think it will be.


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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> What?
> 
> Oct. 2016 is my first post here.
> 
> Most of those countries you listed havn't bought anything since then with the exception of Myanmar and the Phillipines.
> 
> Choosing and buying a fighter takes time.
> 
> I agree the BAF is waaaaaay behind.
> 
> But to say the F-7 is it......is stupid.
> 
> Something will be bought.
> 
> My question was simply what YOU think it will be.


Myanmar 16 JF-17 and Six Su-30
India 36 Rafale + Su-30MKI
Philippine FA-50
Indonesia 11 Su-35
Pakistan JF-17 Block II
Thailand Gripen
Vietnam Su-30

I cannot answer the question for the sake of BS because I don't have access to the mind of morons.

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## Michael Corleone

Anyways guy ignore this fanny, got some news...
Hard shelter hangers are being made in all the major bases of the country... these will also b temperature controlled. 
If we aren’t going to buy stuff, why are we making these? And no, you can’t store any5hing bigger than a fighter jet in each hangers

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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> Anyways guy ignore this fanny, got some news...
> Hard shelter hangers are being made in all the major bases of the country... these will also b temperature controlled.
> If we aren’t going to buy stuff, why are we making these? And no, you can’t store any5hing bigger than a fighter jet in each hangers


Well that was supposed to be going on for a awhile.

Have they completed it in any of the bases? 

A Chinese company was given the contract for first two bases.


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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> Anyways guy ignore this fanny, got some news...
> Hard shelter hangers are being made in all the major bases of the country... these will also b temperature controlled.
> If we aren’t going to buy stuff, why are we making these? And no, you can’t store any5hing bigger than a fighter jet in each hangers


Thats how govt officials work in Bangladesh. They make project, invite tender, receive bribes and make money before they retire. It does not matter whether they have fighter or not to store in those hangers.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> Well that was supposed to be going on for a awhile.
> 
> Have they completed it in any of the bases?
> 
> A Chinese company was given the contract for first two bases.


Some done some ongoing. This is ongoing since the tenders back in 2016/17



TopCat said:


> Thats how govt officials work in Bangladesh. They make project, invite tender, receive bribes and make money before they retire. It does not matter whether they have fighter or not to store in those hangers.


Any non military work, it’s easy to be corrupt... but if you wanna be dirty in the military, either you have to have the whole organization rotten or practically ruling the country to not have opposition

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Anyways guy ignore this fanny, got some news...
> Hard shelter hangers are being made in all the major bases of the country... these will also b temperature controlled.
> If we aren’t going to buy stuff, why are we making these? And no, you can’t store any5hing bigger than a fighter jet in each hangers



Old news. The news about two new bases including this gave hope that BAF might be onto something big. But years after years passed and BAF didn't order a single squadron. Don't we have enough space already in existing bases to accommodate at least one squadron/12 aircraft? While they are working on new bases and shelter they could have ordered some fighter jets and received them just when constructions finished or later. How long does it take to complete the construction? As you said some are already done. Your admin published news about buying J-10, Su-30, Mig 35 etc, then said something will happen after election, in February and June and now he is totally silent about fighter jet. Looks like he gave up too like me.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Old news. The news about two new bases including this gave hope that BAF might be onto something big. But years after years passed and BAF didn't order a single squadron. Don't we have enough space already in existing bases to accommodate at least one squadron/12 aircraft? While they are working on new bases and shelter they could have ordered some fighter jets and received them just when constructions finished or later. How long does it take to complete the construction? As you said some are already done. Your admin published news about buying J-10, Su-30, Mig 35 etc, then said something will happen after election, in February and June and now he is totally silent about fighter jet. Looks like he gave up too like me.


Just to stop to Polanski guy.



The Ronin said:


> Old news. The news about two new bases including this gave hope that BAF might be onto something big. But years after years passed and BAF didn't order a single squadron. Don't we have enough space already in existing bases to accommodate at least one squadron/12 aircraft? While they are working on new bases and shelter they could have ordered some fighter jets and received them just when constructions finished or later. How long does it take to complete the construction? As you said some are already done. Your admin published news about buying J-10, Su-30, Mig 35 etc, then said something will happen after election, in February and June and now he is totally silent about fighter jet. Looks like he gave up too like me.


Same here. With over 80% of your force being over 25 years old, it’s hard to replace and expand with tiny budgets


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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Old news. The news about two new bases including this gave hope that BAF might be onto something big. But years after years passed and BAF didn't order a single squadron. Don't we have enough space already in existing bases to accommodate at least one squadron/12 aircraft? While they are working on new bases and shelter they could have ordered some fighter jets and received them just when constructions finished or later. How long does it take to complete the construction? As you said some are already done. Your admin published news about buying J-10, Su-30, Mig 35 etc, then said something will happen after election, in February and June and now he is totally silent about fighter jet. Looks like he gave up too like me.



So then whats the deal?

Have we been neutered by Indian influence?

Or is it Bangladeshi incompetence?

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## EastBengalPro

PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE

You people saw number of important issues had gone through right after BAF issued a tender for 8+4 MRCA. Government was already under pressure due to the purchase of subs in late 2016. Then rohingya issue came, Myanmar bought JF 17, SU 30 and then you think BAF people are bunch of goats to purchase the same thing Burma did? (they even recently copied our army dress  see pic below) Then Russia gave condition to buy 35 before su 30. Dont forget about them.

BAF hold their patience and that was the right thing to do in that time to understand who are with you, who acts against you in your bad time. They have heads, when you say something bad about BAF I got hurt lol.

Keep making dua. They never had a dedicated air base, now they are getting 2 air base to fly jets not for goat's grass eating. 

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/21666/Bangladesh_Air_Force_to_Get_Two_New_Air_Bases

Purchasing "Subs" AND "Jets" always take time.

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## Avicenna

EastBengalPro said:


> PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE
> 
> You people saw number of important issues had gone through right after BAF issued a tender for 8+4 MRCA. Government was already under pressure due to the purchase of subs in late 2016. Then rohingya issue came, Myanmar bought JF 17, SU 30 and then you think BAF people are bunch of goats to purchase the same thing Burma did? (they even recently copied our army dress  see pic below) Then Russia gave condition to buy 35 before su 30. Dont forget about them.
> 
> BAF hold their patience and that was the right thing to do in that time to understand who are with you, who acts against you in your bad time. They have heads, when you say something bad about BAF I got hurt lol.
> 
> Keep making dua. They never had a dedicated air base, now they are getting 2 air base to fly jets not for goat's grass eating.
> 
> https://www.defenseworld.net/news/21666/Bangladesh_Air_Force_to_Get_Two_New_Air_Bases
> 
> Purchasing "Subs" AND "Jets" always take time.



InshAllah they will get something good.

All we can do is hope.

Those of us critics here just want good for BAF and Bangladesh.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Anyways guy ignore this fanny, got some news...
> Hard shelter hangers are being made in all the major bases of the country... these will also b temperature controlled.
> If we aren’t going to buy stuff, why are we making these? And no, you can’t store any5hing bigger than a fighter jet in each hangers



Evidence? Last time I saw you parked everything on under the sun.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Evidence? Last time I saw you parked everything on under the sun.


@UKBengali @Avicenna @bilal @Homo Sapiens @monitor @Tanveer666 
Would y’all be kind and post the pictures of the new hard shell hangars?

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Just to stop to Polanski guy.
> 
> 
> Same here. With over 80% of your force being over 25 years old, it’s hard to replace and expand with tiny budgets



Constructive criticism is good for discussion. If you don't like criticism then do good things people will praise you automatically. After all these good work, Indians Air Force chief has to defend the organization why India sent MiG-21 to fight F-16. Why India spends billions on Su-30mki.
Your financial capability has changed. People question your judgment to trust Russian and Chinese blindly. People question your quality of decisions you made. 
The western countries want a peaceful Bangladesh with prosperous economy. Nobody disputes that. But you created a Russian and Chinese alignment with your military. People will question your motives. 

American and European don't want you become Djibouti or Crimea. Until European and American suppliers are invited to participate in a bid that question remains active.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Constructive criticism is good for discussion. If you don't like criticism then do good things people will praise you automatically. After all these good work, Indians Air Force chief has to defend the organization why India sent MiG-21 to fight F-16. Why India spends billions on Su-30mki.
> Your financial capability has changed. People question your judgment to trust Russian and Chinese blindly. People question your quality of decisions you made.
> The western countries want a peaceful Bangladesh with prosperous economy. Nobody disputes that. But you created a Russian and Chinese alignment with your military. People will question your motives.
> 
> American and European don't want you become Djibouti or Crimea. Until European and American suppliers are invited to participate in a bid that question remains active.



This post has very valid content.

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## EastBengalPro



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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Constructive criticism is good for discussion. If you don't like criticism then do good things people will praise you automatically. After all these good work, Indians Air Force chief has to defend the organization why India sent MiG-21 to fight F-16. Why India spends billions on Su-30mki.
> Your financial capability has changed. People question your judgment to trust Russian and Chinese blindly. People question your quality of decisions you made.
> The western countries want a peaceful Bangladesh with prosperous economy. Nobody disputes that. But you created a Russian and Chinese alignment with your military. People will question your motives.
> 
> American and European don't want you become Djibouti or Crimea. Until European and American suppliers are invited to participate in a bid that question remains active.


lmao you don;t really know what you're talking about do you.... US and many other western country was against formation of BD and worked directly against it so it wouldn't develop... the days have changed but no one helps one another without their own interest
as for IAF, let's not talk about those losers.
sure constructive criticism is encouraged here... esoecially true with bengali posters here... but your rant and whines on wether it's an air guard or air force and other immature stuff you say makes no one take you seriously


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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> lmao you don;t really know what you're talking about do you.... US and many other western country was against formation of BD and worked directly against it so it wouldn't develop... the days have changed but no one helps one another without their own interest
> as for IAF, let's not talk about those losers.
> sure constructive criticism is encouraged here... esoecially true with bengali posters here... but your rant and whines on wether it's an air guard or air force and other immature stuff you say makes no one take you seriously


Only part of the US administration was against BD in 1971 but they immediately recognized in Jan 1972.
On the other hand it was China which were against us till 1974.
It was western model in development brought us this far. We received all the money in grant and loan from west only. Where do you think Grameen, Brac got their money. Where do think we got money for universal primary education for free? Where do you think we got money for immunization and primary health care? Stop living in denial.
The money they gave us are minuscule compared to their economy. So they probably forgot boasting about it.

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Just to stop to Polanski guy.



Well at the end he and bunch of trolls and "so called critics" win. For now at least.



Michael Corleone said:


> Same here. With over 80% of your force being over 25 years old, it’s hard to replace and expand with tiny budgets



The tiny steps they are taking with limited budget like new bases, new type of shelter, MRO plant with assistance of Ukrainian and Saudis and aerospace university indicate that they will maintain a sizable amount of fighter jets and other aircraft with self sufficiency in future. But for now they could counter the situation with procurement of J-10/JF-17/Mig-35/Su-30 or old/new Mig-29 SMT/M2 from Russia/Malaysia. Later build the training fleet with both eastern/western/indigenous trainers and simulators so that we won't have to suffer this kinda crisis in future.



Avicenna said:


> So then whats the deal?
> 
> Have we been neutered by Indian influence?
> 
> Or is it Bangladeshi incompetence?



Could be both or most likely the latter. Budget and other external matter is also the factor. I gave up already and don't care anymore. Let them buy whatever and whenever they want. 



EastBengalPro said:


> PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE
> 
> You people saw number of important issues had gone through right after BAF issued a tender for 8+4 MRCA. Government was already under pressure due to the purchase of subs in late 2016. Then rohingya issue came, Myanmar bought JF 17, SU 30 and then you think BAF people are bunch of goats to purchase the same thing Burma did? (they even recently copied our army dress  see pic below) Then Russia gave condition to buy 35 before su 30. Dont forget about them.
> 
> BAF hold their patience and that was the right thing to do in that time to understand who are with you, who acts against you in your bad time. They have heads, when you say something bad about BAF I got hurt lol.
> 
> Keep making dua. They never had a dedicated air base, now they are getting 2 air base to fly jets not for goat's grass eating.
> 
> https://www.defenseworld.net/news/21666/Bangladesh_Air_Force_to_Get_Two_New_Air_Bases
> 
> Purchasing "Subs" AND "Jets" always take time.



Who is our friend actually? NO ONE! BD is a teeny-tiny overpopulated country which is not full of resources and has less importance than it's neighbors to the world. China supports Myanmar, you will only get their support to counter India, Russia and USA etc will not support you instead of your neighbors.

You gotta kiss Trump's *** if you want their best stuff with full weapon package. Even if you can buy western stuff you will only procure them in limited number. So at the end you gotta knock at China, Russia's door for fighter jet, SAM, submarine and other things. This will keep going until you have enough money to throw around and capability to build it yourself. It's Bangladesh's fault if they can't play cards during negotiation and issuing tender. You wanna be important or have influence on others, build yourself like Japan/ S.Korea/ Singapore or Israel.

You think govt cares about rohingya issue or what India thinks about our submarine purchase? Check who got the contract for sub base construction and think again. We are our own enemy here. We take time and have to little money to spend.

That camo is not like our army's BDU. And not all of their purchase is similar to ours. Consider their purchase as counter move against ours. Both party do that and buys weapons from mostly Russia and China.

We prayed enough, that doesn't work. Action, policy and money work better than prayer. You want patience for what? Are all these JF-17, Su-30, upgraded Mig-29, frigate, LPD and sub not enough for you?

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## EastBengalPro

The Ronin said:


> Well at the end he and bunch of trolls and "so called critics" win. For now at least.
> 
> 
> 
> The tiny steps they are taking with limited budget like new bases, new type of shelter, MRO plant with assistance of Ukrainian and Saudis and aerospace university indicate that they will maintain a sizable amount of fighter jets and other aircraft with self sufficiency in future. But for now they could counter the situation with procurement of J-10/JF-17/Mig-35/Su-30 or old/new Mig-29 SMT/M2 from Russia/Malaysia. Later build the training fleet with both eastern/western/indigenous trainers and simulators so that we won't have to suffer this kinda crisis in future.
> 
> 
> 
> Could be both or most likely the latter. Budget and other external matter is also the factor. I gave up already and don't care anymore. Let them buy whatever and whenever they want.
> 
> 
> 
> Who is our friend actually? NO ONE! BD is a teeny-tiny overpopulated country which is not full of resources and has less importance than it's neighbors to the world. China supports Myanmar, you will only get their support to counter India, Russia and USA etc will not support you instead of your neighbors.
> 
> You gotta kiss Trump's *** if you want their best stuff with full weapon package. Even if you can buy western stuff you will only procure them in limited number. So at the end you gotta knock at China, Russia's door for fighter jet, SAM, submarine and other things. This will keep going until you have enough money to throw around and capability to build it yourself. It's Bangladesh's fault if they can't play cards during negotiation and issuing tender. You wanna be important or have influence on others, build yourself like Japan/ S.Korea/ Singapore or Israel.
> 
> You think govt cares about rohingya issue or what India thinks about our submarine purchase? Check who got the contract for sub base construction and think again. We are our own enemy here. We take time and have to little money to spend.
> 
> That camo is not like our army's BDU. And not all of their purchase is similar to ours. Consider their purchase as counter move against ours. Both party do that and buys weapons from mostly Russia and China.
> 
> We prayed enough, that doesn't work. Action, policy and money work better than prayer. You want patience for what? Are all these JF-17, Su-30, upgraded Mig-29, frigate and sub not enough for you?



I understand your frustration. We have some logical reasons to be frustrated. People are more frustrated because some facebook generals always publish some fake news of mrca procurement on a regular basis which increased peoples hope and next day they become hopeless when they knew the truth. Rohyngya situation and russia,india,chinese back for myanmar was beyond our thinking and it was beyond expectations of our military establishment even. It was a nice lesson for us as we,our military and diplomats know now we have no friend. I wont keep our army and navy behind of Burmese forces, If its not more then its even. I dont know what BAF would have achieved if they would purchase same jets like su 30 or jf 17. As you see you cant beat them in numbers, then you must go for something they wont be able to procure. Did people ever thought that BAF would purchase 5xc130J and would get them delivered within this year, that so fast? No probably. Bangladesh Air Force took a mature decision to wait at that time.


BAF are building hangers and 2 airbases in barishal and sylhet for something big. Not just to host F7 BGs.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Only part of the US administration was against BD in 1971 but they immediately recognized in Jan 1972.
> On the other hand it was China which were against us till 1974.
> It was western model in development brought us this far. We received all the money in grant and loan from west only. Where do you think Grameen, Brac got their money. Where do think we got money for universal primary education for free? Where do you think we got money for immunization and primary health care? Stop living in denial.
> The money they gave us are minuscule compared to their economy. So they probably forgot boasting about it.


good points

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## EastBengalPro

Old News but posting it again

*Hasina announces new air bases to strengthen air force*
*Sumon Mahbub, from Jessore, bdnews24.com
Published: 31 Dec 2017 01:12 PM BdST Updated: 31 Dec 2017 02:26 PM BdST
*
Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has announced the construction of two new air bases in Barisal and Sylhet to strengthen and improve the capability of the Bangladesh air force.

Hasina made the announcement during a speech in Jessore on Saturday after inspecting a parade by new officers at the Air Force Academy.

We are in the process of establishing two new air bases in Barisal and Sylhet,” she said. “I believe this will make the Bangladesh Air Force stronger.”

_Multi-role combat aircraft, advanced troop aircraft, modern basic training, helicopters, jet trainer aircraft, simulators, unmanned aerial vehicle systems, long and short range air defence radars and medium range surface to air missiles will also be incorporated into the air force soon, she said._

Prior to her speech, the prime minister presented medals, certificates and flying badges to the new officers.

“The members of the air force must always be ready to serve the country in addition to protecting our freedom and sovereignty,” Hasina told them.

https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2017/12/31/hasina-announces-new-air-bases-to-strengthen-air-force

N.B- Dont make me AL fan but since she is in charge of defense ministry give it some value lol. She should know better than us and Facebook generals and she made this announcement in front of current and future BAF officers. Just some set back doesnt mean they have sited idle and clapping seeing MAF purchasing those all kind of jets.

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## The Ronin

#SAMI | Bangladeshi delegation, represented by delegates of Bangladesh Air Force, visited #PAS19 to discuss business opportunities.








EastBengalPro said:


> I understand your frustration. We have some logical reasons to be frustrated. People are more frustrated because some facebook generals always publish some fake news of mrca procurement on a regular basis which increased peoples hope and next day they become hopeless when they knew the truth. Rohyngya situation and russia,india,chinese back for myanmar was beyond our thinking and it was beyond expectations of our military establishment even. It was a nice lesson for us as we,our military and diplomats know now we have no friend. I wont keep our army and navy behind of Burmese forces, If its not more then its even. *I dont know what BAF would have achieved if they would purchase same jets like su 30 or jf 17.* As you see you cant beat them in numbers, then you must go for something they wont be able to procure. Did people ever thought that BAF would purchase 5xc130J and would get them delivered within this year, that so fast? No probably. Bangladesh Air Force took a mature decision to wait at that time.
> 
> 
> BAF are building hangers and 2 airbases in barishal and sylhet for something big. Not just to host F7 BGs.



Well as i said before not all of his news were hoax. When he said BAF delegation inspected J-10, some PDF members mocked me specially idune for sharing the news and photo here. He was the one raised the EFT topic first. Even the C-130J purchase. But that's not important here. What made me curious is that bold red line. I already said no matter how many lessons we take from India, China, Russia or USA, at end we will still knock on their door. Sure we are building two new bases and new shelters. But that doesn't mean every one of them will shelter EFT, does it? BAF will only buy 1/2 squadron of them. You will still need a Russian or Chinese fighter jet as backbone of BAF's future fleet anyway and also for maritime strike role. And that is lot different than buying five second hand c-130 at cheap price.


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## mb444

As much as all of us like to give BAF the benefit of doubt the fact is it has no doctrine. Its leadership is poor and it is not fit for purpose. An airforce that gets wiped out by a storm because they can not be bothered to move aircraft is really not an airforce.

BAF is the joke of the region. I fundamentally believe it needs to disbanded, its assets assigned to BA as its logistics arm and for us to start again.

The Rohingya debacle did not prove anything that was not already known. Who here was suprised by the turn of events as it relates to india and china? 

Has BD learned anything from it.....not a single thing. Has it lead to realignment in strategy in any manner....no not at all. Will BAF continue to pretend it is competent force....yes by prioritising the creation of an aerobatics team.

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## polanski

TopCat said:


> Only part of the US administration was against BD in 1971 but they immediately recognized in Jan 1972.
> On the other hand it was China which were against us till 1974.
> It was western model in development brought us this far. We received all the money in grant and loan from west only. Where do you think Grameen, Brac got their money. Where do think we got money for universal primary education for free? Where do you think we got money for immunization and primary health care? Stop living in denial.
> The money they gave us are minuscule compared to their economy. So they probably forgot boasting about it.



You nailed it bro. Not to mention that US and European are feeding Rohingya. 
One more thing Israel recognized Bangladesh in 1971. Bangladesh rejected bilateral relationship with Israel to join OIC which is now a lesbians organization. Now Israel have fantastic relationship with Myanmar. Saudis, UAE, Turkey, Egypt, Oman, and Qatar. Israeli PM even visited Oman. Israeli supplies arms to Oman, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Fantastic outcome for Bangladesh!!! Specially when Israel supplies arms to Myanmar. 


TopCat said:


> Only part of the US administration was against BD in 1971 but they immediately recognized in Jan 1972.
> On the other hand it was China which were against us till 1974.
> It was western model in development brought us this far. We received all the money in grant and loan from west only. Where do you think Grameen, Brac got their money. Where do think we got money for universal primary education for free? Where do you think we got money for immunization and primary health care? Stop living in denial.
> The money they gave us are minuscule compared to their economy. So they probably forgot boasting about it.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> One more thing Israel recognized Bangladesh in 1971. Bangladesh rejected bilateral relationship with Israel to join OIC which is now a lesbians organization.


This made me chuckle. I couldn’t disagree xD


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## bd_4_ever

Alright gents, after 452 pages of huff, puff and this and that, my question is: are we getting any fighters anytime soon?

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## Avicenna

bd_4_ever said:


> Alright gents, after 452 pages of huff, puff and this and that, my question is: are we getting any fighters anytime soon?



I guess not.

WTH is going on????

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## The Ronin

It's coming home!!

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## The Ronin

#BAHExclusive | FATTY HAS ARRIVED | GETS A SPECIAL FLY PAST AND WATER CANNON SALUTE BY AIR FORCE | The first C-130J Super Hercules (S3-AGE) of Bangladesh Air Force has just landed 15 minutes ago at Dhaka Hazrat Shah Jalal International Airport! She was given a special fly past and a water cannon salute upon her arrival at BAF Base Bangabandhu. A special ceremony is being held there for the arrival of the C-130J in the presence of the Defence Minister and Air Force Chief.

She was ferried from Cambridge, England via Greece and Muscat. Four more C-130J series are on order and the next 'Fatty' is expected in September.

© Photo: M Shahriar Sonet





















PC-DTB




















__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I guess not.
> 
> WTH is going on????



I think we know what is going on.

BAF messed up back in 2017 with the tender where only SU-30SME could have won. Russia of course jacked up the price that BD did not want to pay.
Then add in the Rohingya fiasco and BAF got nervous about Chinese support against Myanmar.
After all this we have US sanctions on Russia and the Russian/Chinese options seem a bad idea.
BAF is now most probably looking at Western options(hopefully Gripen E) but we are unlikely to see a contract signed before 2020.
What could have already happened is an order for J-10C which would be the ideal fighter to counter India. This has not happened due to incompetence and BD not taking the Indian threat seriously.

Finally the money is available, BD needs to put in place a competent BAF leadership that will build a formidable BAF by 2030 as per "Forces Goal 2030".

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## Avicenna

https://www.defseca.com/systems/baf-stepping-in-to-the-future-with-ef2000/

I tried to cut and paste the article but it wouldn't let me.

How reliable is this website?

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## Avicenna

Also.....

*http://www.newagebd.net/article/82677/baf-chief-off-to-russia*

*BAF chief off to Russia*
Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka | Published: 00:00, Aug 27,2019




Chief of air staff of Bangladesh Air Force air chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat left Dhaka for Russia on Monday on a six-day official visit.

During the visit, BAF chief would attend ‘The International Aviation and Space Salon (MAKS-2019)’ Air Show, said an ISPR press release.

He will also call on with chief of Department of Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation of Russia and exchange views on bilateral issues.

Besides, he will meet with the high officials of reputed Russian Industry ROSOBORON EXPORT and Aviation Corporation IRKUT in the Air Show and discuss on professional matters.

It is expected that this visit of chief of air staff will help accelerating the process of inducting modern arms, ammunitions and technology in BAF and play an important role for strengthening the existing relationship between Air Forces of Bangladesh and Russia.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> https://www.defseca.com/systems/baf-stepping-in-to-the-future-with-ef2000/
> 
> I tried to cut and paste the article but it wouldn't let me.
> 
> How reliable is this website?


Mostly fart piece. 



Avicenna said:


> Also.....
> 
> *http://www.newagebd.net/article/82677/baf-chief-off-to-russia*
> 
> *BAF chief off to Russia*
> Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka | Published: 00:00, Aug 27,2019
> 
> 
> Chief of air staff of Bangladesh Air Force air chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat left Dhaka for Russia on Monday on a six-day official visit.
> 
> During the visit, BAF chief would attend ‘The International Aviation and Space Salon (MAKS-2019)’ Air Show, said an ISPR press release.
> 
> He will also call on with chief of Department of Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation of Russia and exchange views on bilateral issues.
> 
> Besides, he will meet with the high officials of reputed Russian Industry ROSOBORON EXPORT and Aviation Corporation IRKUT in the Air Show and discuss on professional matters.
> 
> It is expected that this visit of chief of air staff will help accelerating the process of inducting modern arms, ammunitions and technology in BAF and play an important role for strengthening the existing relationship between Air Forces of Bangladesh and Russia.


Pleasure trip. Nothing serious.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Mostly fart piece.
> 
> 
> Pleasure trip. Nothing serious.



I would tend to agree.

But I did post this January how I met with a family friend who is close with a US legislator. I suggested he discuss BD purchasing US weapons and he told me those discussions were already going on.

And then we have these little bits of info out in the public.

Point is, the US seems interested.

The problem is the morons in Bangladesh who think too much about this.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I would tend to agree.
> 
> But I did post this January how I met with a family friend who is close with a US legislator. I suggested he discuss BD purchasing US weapons and he told me those discussions were already going on.
> 
> And then we have these little bits of info out in the public.
> 
> Point is, the US seems interested.
> 
> The problem is the morons in Bangladesh who think too much about this.


We should seriously persue US options. It is important. USA has technology & experience that can help us a lot. It means technological superiority over atleast one theatre of hostility.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> We should seriously persue US options. It is important. USA has technology & experience that can help us a lot. It means technical superiority over atleast one theatre of hostility.



It’s a gift and a curse.

But considering the position Bangladesh is in currently it’s a necessary evil.

This talk about sovereignty in regards to rebuffing the US is nauseating.

Bangladeshis tend to think too much of themselves at times.

Like I said before, kiss the ring.

There are no better options at this time.

And bring on the F-16s!

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> It’s a gift and a curse.
> 
> But considering the position Bangladesh is in currently it’s a necessary evil.
> 
> This talk about sovereignty in regards to rebuffing the US is nauseating.
> 
> Bangladeshis tend to think too much of themselves at times.
> 
> Like I said before, kiss the ring.
> 
> There are no better options at this time.
> 
> And bring on the F-16s!



Agreed. Seems there’s no othe option going on for BD.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Agreed. Seems there’s no othe option going on for BD.



Yea man.

Certainly not the Russian option.

And China is part of the solution for Bangladesh.

But so is US/EU.

I say leave the Russians out of it.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Yea man.
> 
> Certainly not the Russian option.
> 
> And China is part of the solution for Bangladesh.
> 
> But so is US/EU.
> 
> I say leave the Russians out of it.


A availability rate of below 50% isn’t very appealing for me tbh. Don’t know why BAF is so enamoured with them russian birds. 

No cutting edge Technology, no apparent advantage over adversaries & a hefty price tag. Not an option man.

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## Michael Corleone

Getting an f-16 package worth billions is still better for Bangladesh compared to what it has right now... even if Bangladesh has to live for the next 30-40 years with these birds. They are well suited to handle our neighborhood misadventures

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## mb444

If BD has sense and looking for a long term solution go for the British Typhoon. It may be more expensive than F16 in price and maintenance (dont know personally for sure, but assuming so) but it is the best 4th generation figher out there and can go up against anything either the indians or the monkeys likely to have.

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## polanski

mb444 said:


> If BD has sense and looking for a long term solution go for the British Typhoon. It may be more expensive than F16 in price and maintenance (dont know personally for sure, but assuming so) but it is the best 4th generation figher out there and can go up against anything either the indians or the monkeys likely to have.


The cost of having 1 Eurofighter Typhoon is almost US$200m. Recently Kuwait purchased Typhoon at $301m. I'm guessing corruption in it. Nevertheless you can buy 3x F-16V Block 70/72 or 3× F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet at the cost of 1 Eurofighter Typhoon.
But considering radar, currently Eurofighter has the best AESA Radar in the planet, second Raven ES-05 and APG-83.
But APG-83 SABR AESA makes it extremely difficult to track and jam by any Russian or Chinese hobbits. But discussions won't work, someone said in this thread that BAG chief is in pleasure trip in Russia. In Russia, there's a saying called "Magic P". It worked every time during cold war in Eastern Europe and Latin America.
Meanwhile your neighbor India is planning to buy additional 36 Rafale soon apart from MRCA v2.0. They will have 72 Rafale if the deal is sealed.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> The cost of having 1 Eurofighter Typhoon is almost US$200m. Recently Kuwait purchased Typhoon at $301m. I'm guessing corruption in it. Nevertheless you can buy 3x F-16V Block 70/72 or 3× F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet at the cost of 1 Eurofighter Typhoon.
> But considering radar, currently Eurofighter has the best AESA Radar in the planet, second Raven ES-05 and APG-83.
> But APG-83 SABR AESA makes it extremely difficult to track and jam by any Russian or Chinese hobbits. But discussions won't work, someone said in this thread that BAG chief is in pleasure trip in Russia. In Russia, there's a saying called "Magic P". It worked every time during cold war in Eastern Europe and Latin America.
> Meanwhile your neighbor India is planning to buy additional 36 Rafale soon apart from MRCA v2.0. They will have 72 Rafale if the deal is sealed.


Kuwait is getting tech that other eft lack... captor e radar etc. but yes way overpriced. Arabs would buy shit with 300 mil if the west insisted so


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> The cost of having 1 Eurofighter Typhoon is almost US$200m. Recently Kuwait purchased Typhoon at $301m. I'm guessing corruption in it. Nevertheless you can buy 3x F-16V Block 70/72 or 3× F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet at the cost of 1 Eurofighter Typhoon.
> But considering radar, currently Eurofighter has the best AESA Radar in the planet, second Raven ES-05 and APG-83.
> But APG-83 SABR AESA makes it extremely difficult to track and jam by any Russian or Chinese hobbits. But discussions won't work, someone said in this thread that BAG chief is in pleasure trip in Russia. In Russia, there's a saying called "Magic P". It worked every time during cold war in Eastern Europe and Latin America.
> Meanwhile your neighbor India is planning to buy additional 36 Rafale soon apart from MRCA v2.0. They will have 72 Rafale if the deal is sealed.



Whats "Magic P"?

Also, I don't really care too much about Block 70/72 F-16 or Tranche 3 Eurofighters.

Just get either of those and I will be happy.

Either of those will give the BAF a MAJOR qualitative edge on Myanmar.

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## TopCat

polanski said:


> The cost of having 1 Eurofighter Typhoon is almost US$200m. Recently Kuwait purchased Typhoon at $301m. I'm guessing corruption in it. Nevertheless you can buy 3x F-16V Block 70/72 or 3× F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet at the cost of 1 Eurofighter Typhoon.
> But considering radar, currently Eurofighter has the best AESA Radar in the planet, second Raven ES-05 and APG-83.
> But APG-83 SABR AESA makes it extremely difficult to track and jam by any Russian or Chinese hobbits. But discussions won't work, someone said in this thread that BAG chief is in pleasure trip in Russia. In Russia, there's a saying called "Magic P". It worked every time during cold war in Eastern Europe and Latin America.
> Meanwhile your neighbor India is planning to buy additional 36 Rafale soon apart from MRCA v2.0. They will have 72 Rafale if the deal is sealed.


The price will come down substantially if BD insists. The host country price is 1/3rd the price they charge to the dumb arabs. Kuwait want tech transfer when they dont know simple algebra..


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> The price will come down substantially if BD insists. The host country price is 1/3rd the price they charge to the dumb arabs. Kuwait want tech transfer when they dont know simple algebra..


Damn, there isn’t a single Kuwaiti engineer in he country and they want to assemble, built that in Kuwait? Lmao

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## mb444

polanski said:


> The cost of having 1 Eurofighter Typhoon is almost US$200m. Recently Kuwait purchased Typhoon at $301m. I'm guessing corruption in it. Nevertheless you can buy 3x F-16V Block 70/72 or 3× F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet at the cost of 1 Eurofighter Typhoon.
> But considering radar, currently Eurofighter has the best AESA Radar in the planet, second Raven ES-05 and APG-83.
> But APG-83 SABR AESA makes it extremely difficult to track and jam by any Russian or Chinese hobbits. But discussions won't work, someone said in this thread that BAG chief is in pleasure trip in Russia. In Russia, there's a saying called "Magic P". It worked every time during cold war in Eastern Europe and Latin America.
> Meanwhile your neighbor India is planning to buy additional 36 Rafale soon apart from MRCA v2.0. They will have 72 Rafale if the deal is sealed.



Mate i have precisely zero hope when it comes to BAF. Whatever we end up with I am fairly certain it wont fulfil the brief of protecting BD skies.

BD needs to go western and I personally believe British is the way to go and gives us option against both potential adversary. But if I had a say I would ignore BAF. Its a zero sum game you either build up a competant force or dont bother at all.

BD should go for massive building and stockpiling of defensive and offensive missiles and build up fully fledged forth arm of the military. Once this is done even a crappy incompetent BAF can act as a force multiplier.

I have zero faith in BAF particularly the current cheif who is so obese he is barely able to fit into a jet. The quality of leadership shines through in the optics.... you just need to see the jokers who run BAF to BN or BA


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Mate i have precisely zero hope when it comes to BAF. Whatever we end up with I am fairly certain it wont fulfil the brief of protecting BD skies.
> 
> BD needs to go western and I personally believe British is the way to go and gives us option against both potential adversary. But if I had a say I would ignore BAF. Its a zero sum game you either build up a competant force or dont bother at all.
> 
> BD should go for massive building and stockpiling of defensive and offensive missiles and build up fully fledged forth arm of the military. Once this is done even a crappy incompetent BAF can act as a force multiplier.
> 
> I have zero faith in BAF particularly the current cheif who is so obese he is barely able to fit into a jet. The quality of leadership shines through in the optics.... you just need to see the jokers who run BAF to BN or BA


Esrar is gone. The new one is relatively fit and conducts patrol duties regularly

Anyways have y’all seen the final mig 35 production model? New tail, vertical stabilizer and wing design.

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## polanski

TopCat said:


> The price will come down substantially if BD insists. The host country price is 1/3rd the price they charge to the dumb arabs. Kuwait want tech transfer when they dont know simple algebra..


No Arab country ever received ToT for Typhoon. This is most likely corruption
cost. That's what happened all Typhoon deal with Saudi. Saudi prince received £1.5B for Typhoon deal.

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## CHACHA"G"

The Ronin said:


> #BAHExclusive | FATTY HAS ARRIVED | GETS A SPECIAL FLY PAST AND WATER CANNON SALUTE BY AIR FORCE | The first C-130J Super Hercules (S3-AGE) of Bangladesh Air Force has just landed 15 minutes ago at Dhaka Hazrat Shah Jalal International Airport! She was given a special fly past and a water cannon salute upon her arrival at BAF Base Bangabandhu. A special ceremony is being held there for the arrival of the C-130J in the presence of the Defence Minister and Air Force Chief.
> 
> She was ferried from Cambridge, England via Greece and Muscat. Four more C-130J series are on order and the next 'Fatty' is expected in September.
> 
> © Photo: M Shahriar Sonet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PC-DTB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Beautiful (and very important transport ) bird ……… Congratulation BD-Airforce.. 
And on fighter Jets …….. I will say what I said before ….. 

For single engine go for J-10...… Custom(er) build it as J-10B(Bangladesh) , J-10 are way cheaper then F-16s and Gripen …… BD-Airforce can have 60+ of them in 5 to 7 years .. Remember J-10 is Chinees main fighter jet so they will keep investing Billion of $$ in R&D for future upgrades .. 
For Heavy go for EFT …….. BD can easily afford it .. start buying 8 Jets per 2 years in this way you guys can have 30 to 40 birds in 10+ years ………. 
You guys already have LIFT.....
Rest it is all up to you people...……….. You guys have Money ……. Just need will …….. Don't waist time you are already 10= years late...……..

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> Whats "Magic P"?
> 
> Also, I don't really care too much about Block 70/72 F-16 or Tranche 3 Eurofighters.
> 
> Just get either of those and I will be happy.
> 
> Either of those will give the BAF a MAJOR qualitative edge on Myanmar.


Well in Russia, there's a saying every deal can be done through magic pu$$y. India had enough of Russian girl and lousy fighter jet. 

F-16V is advanced fighter jet with fifth gen radar and techs from F-35. 
Eurofighter Tranche 3 is very best Europe has to offer. 
Gripen has the best EW capability among all 4.5 Gen Fighter and low RCS. 
F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet has the best RCS advantage against any Russian fighter jets. 

Gripen, F-16V and F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet are same price range. Typhoon is pricey but can do lot of damages. 

Bangladesh is a big time waster on a cup of tea and cricket. They discuss a lot, chit-chat and do nothing. A military organization should forget at least some of civilian bad habits but Bangladesh Air Guard is following civilian tradition. Chit-chat but do nothing.

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## batmannow

mb444 said:


> As much as all of us like to give BAF the benefit of doubt the fact is it has no doctrine. Its leadership is poor and it is not fit for purpose. An airforce that gets wiped out by a storm because they can not be bothered to move aircraft is really not an airforce.
> 
> BAF is the joke of the region. I fundamentally believe it needs to disbanded, its assets assigned to BA as its logistics arm and for us to start again.
> 
> The Rohingya debacle did not prove anything that was not already known. Who here was suprised by the turn of events as it relates to india and china?
> 
> Has BD learned anything from it.....not a single thing. Has it lead to realignment in strategy in any manner....no not at all. Will BAF continue to pretend it is competent force....yes by prioritising the creation of an aerobatics team.


When ur political leadership is sold to India then, what u expect india ill let u buildup some sharp force?
No thy won't, bt rohingia problem would hve let BD getting supported by turkey, Pakistan and many Arabs would be donating to ur defence once u hve taken a stand against Burmas unjust genocide of poor Muslim rohingias?
U waited and waited, and let Burma kills as many as thy wanted?
U could hve supported, them with training and weapons to fight back and u would hve created a stratigical importance for urself in the region?
Bt u look, u did noting cause ur PM is a bangla version of MODI? and she don't want BD become strong by military?
So here we r, why u need a big airforce to fight whom?
Bumra, India or urself?
I think with tht PM in power, we can expect tht some day she may announce tht, there is no need for having a army airforce, or navy better make a confederation with India and let mother india do BD defence?

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## TopCat

batmannow said:


> When ur political leadership is sold to India then, what u expect india ill let u buildup some sharp force?
> No thy won't, bt rohingia problem would hve let BD getting supported by turkey, Pakistan and many Arabs would be donating to ur defence once u hve taken a stand against Burmas unjust genocide of poor Muslim rohingias?
> U waited and waited, and let Burma kills as many as thy wanted?
> U could hve supported, them with training and weapons to fight back and u would hve created a stratigical importance for urself in the region?
> Bt u look, u did noting cause ur PM is a bangla version of MODI? and she don't want BD become strong by military?
> So here we r, why u need a big airforce to fight whom?
> Bumra, India or urself?
> I think with tht PM in power, we can expect tht some day she may announce tht, there is no need for having a army airforce, or navy better make a confederation with India and let mother india do BD defence?


Bangladesh can not compromise its economy for Rohingya or Burma. The timing is very important for us and we dont want no disturbances. There will be plenty of time for war after we have enough money to buy or make stuffs instead of charity from Arabs.

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## The Ronin

Aha people now dreaming about a full western fleet, putting all egg in one basket while the actual scenario on the ground looks totally different. The way everyone talking it seems like BAF suddenly found a money tree.  Not so long ago people were crying about some kinda pilot shortage and the delay might happen till 2021-22. If BAF decides to decorate the whole fleet with western fighters that would take years to train our pilots for that. Wonder if people or our adversaries have patience for that.  Anyway i am happy if they manage to do the whole thing within 2030, would love to see two of my love F-16 and F-18 in our fleet. Finger crossed for the best. 










__ https://www.facebook.com/







Avicenna said:


> https://www.defseca.com/systems/baf-stepping-in-to-the-future-with-ef2000/
> 
> I tried to cut and paste the article but it wouldn't let me.
> 
> How reliable is this website?



BD Military 2.0 run by you know who. According him it's a gift to the "Kamla" jati. And yet he charges two dollar again for an article.  Forget what you shared he already posted this to keep him one step ahead if anything good happen in any case.

https://www.defseca.com/procurement...SxnijL2mKNsI05z7j_j7wu-WKSyejZlI2cyBJL_5oSsxE

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Aha people now dreaming about a full western fleet, putting all egg in one basket while the actual scenario on the ground looks totally different. The way everyone talking it seems like BAF suddenly found a money tree.  Not so long ago people were crying about some kinda pilot shortage and the delay might happen till 2021-22. If BAF decides to decorate the whole fleet with western fighters that would take years to train our pilots for that. Wonder if people or our adversaries have patience for that.  Anyway i am happy if they manage to do the whole thing within 2030, would love to see two of my love F-16 and F-18 in our fleet. Finger crossed for the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BD Military 2.0 run by you know who. According him it's a gift to the "Kamla" jati. And yet he charges two dollar again for an article.  Forget what you shared he already posted this to keep him one step ahead if anything good happen in any case.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...SxnijL2mKNsI05z7j_j7wu-WKSyejZlI2cyBJL_5oSsxE



LOL.

Eurofighters, F-16s, F-18s......wow.

This is called carpet bombing with info and hoping something sticks.

In anycase, I hope it is true that BAF is looking towards non Chinese and Russian options.

It would allow Bangladesh to capitalize on an option not available to Myanmar.

Can you imagine the game changing effects of the introduction of a reasonable amount of a Western sourced fighter.

It would be a major upgrade for the BAF.

And a MAJOR source of deterrence for any further belligerent actions by Myanmar.

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## ghost250

this video has all the answers.. ..in this video,air chief talks about a cost effective fighter nd it will certainly be mig-35..nd a bad fighter i presume..with this current state of baf ,mig-35 will be a huge boost ..


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## mb444

batmannow said:


> When ur political leadership is sold to India then, what u expect india ill let u buildup some sharp force?
> No thy won't, bt rohingia problem would hve let BD getting supported by turkey, Pakistan and many Arabs would be donating to ur defence once u hve taken a stand against Burmas unjust genocide of poor Muslim rohingias?
> U waited and waited, and let Burma kills as many as thy wanted?
> U could hve supported, them with training and weapons to fight back and u would hve created a stratigical importance for urself in the region?
> Bt u look, u did noting cause ur PM is a bangla version of MODI? and she don't want BD become strong by military?
> So here we r, why u need a big airforce to fight whom?
> Bumra, India or urself?
> I think with tht PM in power, we can expect tht some day she may announce tht, there is no need for having a army airforce, or navy better make a confederation with India and let mother india do BD defence?



I do not agree with you for the simple reason that facts on the ground suggests otherwise.

Bangladesh Navy has expanded exponentially over the last 5 years, Bangladesh Army has steadily expanded in size and capacity. This is due to the leadership of those forces under the same political masters

BAFs failure is entirety as a result of poor leadership not because of a lack of political support.

Regarding Rohingya....india and chinas response was entirely predicatable, both are islamaphobic nations. BD could have gone down the war path but at an economic cost. It chose the lesser economic cost which is to host the rohingya.

The sad truth is BD can not rely on any muslim country to assist least of all Pakistan. You are heavily endebted and aligned to china...it was a wasteful boast that Pakistan would have helped. I do not doubt the sincerety of the PK people but the government would not be free to assist.

Turkey has its handful with syria and internal issue with the gulinists. Saudi is unsucessfully prosecuting multiple wars internally and externally...they are in no position to directly assist Bangladesh.

We knew the only help we would get is humanitarian. BD opened its border and helped and continue to help the Rohingyas.

I absolutely do not like Hasina but she is no Modi. BD is seeking to be an economic power first and there is cross party consensus for that aim.

BD is progressing in many paths and failing in others. BAF is one of the most glaring failures and from what I see the reason is managerial ineptitude.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> I do not agree with you for the simple reason that facts on the ground suggests otherwise.
> 
> Bangladesh Navy has expanded exponentially over the last 5 years, Bangladesh Army has steadily expanded in size and capacity. This is due to the leadership of those forces under the same political masters
> 
> BAFs failure is entire as a result of poor leadership not because of a lack of political support.
> 
> Regarding Rohingya....india and chinas response was entirely predicatable, both are islamaphobic nations. BD could have gone down the war path but at an economic cost. It chose the lessor economic cost which is to host the rohingya.
> 
> The sad truth is BD can not rely on any muslim country to assist least of all Pakistan. You are heavily endebted and aligned to china...it was a wasteful boast that Pakistan would have helped. I do not doubt the sincerety of the PK people but the government would not be free to assist.
> 
> Turkey has its handful with syria and internal issue with the gulinists. Saudi is unsucessfully prosecuting multiple wars internally and externally...they are in no position to directly assist Bangladesh.
> 
> We knew the only help we would get is humanitarian. BD opened its border and helped and continue to help the Rohingyas.
> 
> I absolutely do not like Hasina but she is no Modi. BD is seeking to be an economic power first and there is cross party consensus for that aim.
> 
> BD is progressing in many paths and failing in others. BAF is one of the most glaring failures and from what I see the reason is managerial ineptitude.



Agree with many points.

But BD needs an airforce.

BAF has to be addressed.

If the BN and BA are competent that means competent people exist in BD. (Obviously).

So then fix the BAF and see the results.

BTW, that MRCA tender was a fiasco.

What moron came up with that one?

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> No Arab country ever received ToT for Typhoon. This is most likely corruption
> cost. That's what happened all Typhoon deal with Saudi. Saudi prince received £1.5B for Typhoon deal.


Do you have sufficient prove to justify your claims?



The Ronin said:


> Aha people now dreaming about a full western fleet, putting all egg in one basket while the actual scenario on the ground looks totally different. The way everyone talking it seems like BAF suddenly found a money tree.  Not so long ago people were crying about some kinda pilot shortage and the delay might happen till 2021-22. If BAF decides to decorate the whole fleet with western fighters that would take years to train our pilots for that. Wonder if people or our adversaries have patience for that.  Anyway i am happy if they manage to do the whole thing within 2030, would love to see two of my love F-16 and F-18 in our fleet. Finger crossed for the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BD Military 2.0 run by you know who. According him it's a gift to the "Kamla" jati. And yet he charges two dollar again for an article.  Forget what you shared he already posted this to keep him one step ahead if anything good happen in any case.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...SxnijL2mKNsI05z7j_j7wu-WKSyejZlI2cyBJL_5oSsxE


You know I used to think you’re an avid bdmilitary fan, especially of you know who



shourov323 said:


> this video has all the answers.. ..in this video,air chief talks about a cost effective fighter nd it will certainly be mig-35..nd a bad fighter i presume..with this current state of baf ,mig-35 will be a huge boost ..


All these claims about mig 35, j10, f16, f18, gripen, eft... etc what I reckon (and I have no proof to backup my claim, nor am I saying this on behalf of bdmilitary) I reckon mig 35 has a big chance to make up the backbone of our fleet... eft certainly has a chance, especially UK’s tranche 1 examples. But I don’t think gripen has any chance neither does f18 and any other crap.



Avicenna said:


> What moron came up with that one?


Probably the same kind of civilian govt official who wanted his cut from daddy Russia and India...

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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> All these claims about mig 35, j10, f16, f18, gripen, eft... etc what I reckon (and I have no proof to backup my claim, nor am I saying this on behalf of bdmilitary) I reckon mig 35 has a big chance to make up the backbone of our fleet... eft certainly has a chance, especially UK’s tranche 1 examples. But I don’t think gripen has any chance neither does f18 and any other crap.


If they offer it with open architecture & a free hand to choose radar, electronics & weapon suit of our liking(I.e. Chinese) it won't be that bad tbh. 




Michael Corleone said:


> Probably the same kind of civilian govt official who wanted his cut from daddy Russia and India...



Don't blame the civil administration on this.

We all very well know that BAF leadership is incompetent enough for themselves. They don't need a hand from a civil bureaucrat on that.


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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> If they offer it with open architecture & a free hand to choose radar, electronics & weapon suit of our liking(I.e. Chinese) it won't be that bad tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame the civil administration on this.
> 
> We all very well know that BAF leadership is incompetent enough for themselves. They don't need a hand from a civil bureaucrat on that.


Yes the final production model at MAKS show open architecture, new tail, stabilizers, wings and aesa radar capable. 

Well I agree but there’s a mix of both.


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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> this video has all the answers.. ..in this video,air chief talks about a cost effective fighter nd it will certainly be mig-35..nd a bad fighter i presume..with this current state of baf ,mig-35 will be a huge boost ..


Do you have a transcript of the video in English?



Michael Corleone said:


> Yes the final production model at MAKS show open architecture, new tail, stabilizers, wings and aesa radar capable.
> 
> Well I agree but there’s a mix of both.


Russian have shown AESA radar since 2016. Ref http://www.airrecognition.com/index...adar-test-phase-scheduled-for-early-2019.html

The new AESA radar is called Zhuk-AME or FGA50, he added. "_An export-oriented prototype of the Zhuk-AME was unveiled two years ago, at the Airshow China 2016 exhibition_," said the source.

Why did not use it themselves or delivered to Egypt? Answer from the same article:

"_Phazotron-NIIR is finishing the manufacturing of the first AESA radar for the MiG-29. We are finishing the assembling of the unit. It will be delivered to the RSK MiG Corporation_ [a subsidiary of the United Aircraft Corporation] _that will integrate it onto a specially prepared fighter jet. The tests of the radar are scheduled for early 2019_," said the source.

Russian Zhuk isn't ready now. PERIOD. Russian has shown the same radar MAKS 2019 as Russian does all the time. Putin has shown the animated video of nuclear power missile striking in Florida. That missile exploded in Russia during the test causing high radiation in some parts of Europe. Good Luck with Russian AESA radar.

There is zero chance that Bangladesh can afford Typhoon either. Let's assume Bangladesh financed through British bank UK Export Finance like Qatar then it will cost almost 2.5 billion pound buy 12 Typhoon in a complete packaged deal. Qatar is paying 5 billion pound for 24 Typhoon in a complete packaged deal. 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...l-to-sell-typhoon-jets-to-qatar-idUKKCN1LY261

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Do you have a transcript of the video in English?
> 
> 
> Russian have shown AESA radar since 2016. Ref http://www.airrecognition.com/index...adar-test-phase-scheduled-for-early-2019.html
> 
> The new AESA radar is called Zhuk-AME or FGA50, he added. "_An export-oriented prototype of the Zhuk-AME was unveiled two years ago, at the Airshow China 2016 exhibition_," said the source.
> 
> Why did not use it themselves or delivered to Egypt? Answer from the same article:
> 
> "_Phazotron-NIIR is finishing the manufacturing of the first AESA radar for the MiG-29. We are finishing the assembling of the unit. It will be delivered to the RSK MiG Corporation_ [a subsidiary of the United Aircraft Corporation] _that will integrate it onto a specially prepared fighter jet. The tests of the radar are scheduled for early 2019_," said the source.
> 
> Russian Zhuk isn't ready now. PERIOD. Russian has shown the same radar MAKS 2019 as Russian does all the time. Putin has shown the animated video of nuclear power missile striking in Florida. That missile exploded in Russia during the test causing high radiation in some parts of Europe. Good Luck with Russian AESA radar.
> 
> There is zero chance that Bangladesh can afford Typhoon either. Let's assume Bangladesh financed through British bank UK Export Finance like Qatar then it will cost almost 2.5 billion pound buy 12 Typhoon in a complete packaged deal. Qatar is paying 5 billion pound for 24 Typhoon in a complete packaged deal.
> 
> https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...l-to-sell-typhoon-jets-to-qatar-idUKKCN1LY261



If Bangladesh were to get any Typhoon it would almost certainly be used.

Probably ex-UK, Italian, or Spanish Tranche 1 aircraft.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Do you have sufficient prove to justify your claims?
> 
> 
> You know I used to think you’re an avid bdmilitary fan, especially of you know who
> 
> 
> All these claims about mig 35, j10, f16, f18, gripen, eft... etc what I reckon (and I have no proof to backup my claim, nor am I saying this on behalf of bdmilitary) I reckon mig 35 has a big chance to make up the backbone of our fleet... eft certainly has a chance, especially UK’s tranche 1 examples. But I don’t think gripen has any chance neither does f18 and any other crap.
> 
> 
> Probably the same kind of civilian govt official who wanted his cut from daddy Russia and India...


Here is evidence that British authorities cancelled corruption investigation to sale Eurofighter Typhoon https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/dec/15/saudiarabia.armstrade

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/05/bae-systems-arms-deal-corruption

There is another report on WSJ about corruption. Do you think Saudi Princes wear burka, they don't. Why do you think BAE Systems and Rafale are so successful in the Middle East and India?

Why do you think Russian and Chinese companies are so successful in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Myanmar, Algeria? One answer: Corruption



shourov323 said:


> this video has all the answers.. ..in this video,air chief talks about a cost effective fighter nd it will certainly be mig-35..nd a bad fighter i presume..with this current state of baf ,mig-35 will be a huge boost ..


Ohh I didn't realize the video comes from bdmilitary. That's explain a lot.

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> In anycase, I hope it is true that BAF is looking towards non Chinese and Russian options.



If that happens BAF will need to change the whole training fleet and infrastructures. Then it will delay the MRCA procurement more, specially the choosing the backbone of the fleet. Cost will rise, govt will need to increase the budget. Also what will be the fate of our Yak-130 and K-8W fleet? 

Besides it will be just like choosing Eastern origin fighter only and putting all eggs in one basket. The west do more weapon politics than Russia and China. They act like they own us. You can already see that from that retard PDF member here. USA forbade Pakistan to use F-16 against India. 

What good will procuring american fighter jets do if we can't use them against our adversaries properly? What if the west gets upset if we take harsh action against Rohingya as these cunts are currently being quite troublesome and currently the terrorist hill-tracts are also making some chaos? The humanitarian organizations cry for both parties.

What if they decide to do weapon politics then? While they are sweet talking to us they are not sanctioning full embargo on Myanmar, still trying to enhance relationship with them. USA is just using this Rohingya issue and BAF's current dilemma to get BD in their club and reduce Chinese-Russian influence here to counter them. Also notice they rejected to sell or approve other country like Italy to sell fighter to us but now they are offering their product without congress obstacle? Do they smell money now?

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/...PAWRHsJop2NhgkCg4aC2m2_fT1zf1IATfteDMNssgpQ84

People are dancing about US but BD should take step VERY CAREFULLY. The best solution is to stick with EU, Russian and Chinese gear not bring any US stuff which has some serious string attached. USA won't sell their F-16V with full weapon package anyway. But one thing i can hope that this sudden US-EU relationship might sweeten Russian deal.

https://thedefensepost.com/2019/08/28/myanmar-us-asean-maritime-exercises/



Avicenna said:


> What moron came up with that one?



Probably because there wasn't any other option and AJT was also suited for Russian MRCA.



Michael Corleone said:


> You know I used to think you’re an avid bdmilitary fan, especially of you know who



You can say that about Hridoy Mahbub!!  I just try to follow every news i find from defence pages but that doesn't mean i don't think some news total BS. I just stopped saying what i really have in my mind cause "বললে চাকরি থাকবে না।"  Another thing is this guy's reports sometimes come true and provides more material and inside news than anyone, so can't really risk it either. And sometimes he gets triggered and treats people badly. Other local pages have same case. They are not matured like other international pages. So i rather be a fan of Dylan Malyasov and Xavier Vavasseur. QUWA's Billal vai is also good.

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## EastBengalPro

*সু-৩৫ কিনতে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীকে প্রলুব্ধ করছে রাশিয়া*
*আসাফ খন্দেকার, আগস্ট ২৯, ২০১৯*

*




*

*বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী (বিএএফ)’র কাছে সু-৩৫এস ও সু-৩০এসএমই হেভি মাল্টিরোল ফাইটার এয়ারক্রাফট বিক্রির জন্য রাশিয়ার রোজোবরোনেক্সপোর্ট ও ইরকুত কর্পোরেশন চূড়ান্ত প্রচেষ্টা শুরু করেছে। তারা এয়ারক্রাফট, খুচরা যন্ত্রাংশ, গোলাবারুদ, অবকাঠামো উন্নয়ন ও প্রশিক্ষণ বিষয়ে একটি ব্যাপকভিত্তিক চুক্তি করার চেষ্টা চালাচ্ছে।*

*বিএএফ প্রধান এয়ার চিফ মার্শাল মাসিহুজ্জামান সেরনিয়াবাত ২৬ আগস্ট থেকে ছয় দিনের সফরে রাশিয়া রয়েছেন। তিনি ইন্টারন্যাশনাল এভিয়েশন এন্ড স্পেস শো (এমএকেএস)-২০১৯ পরিদর্শন এবং রাশিয়ার সিনিয়র প্রতিরক্ষা কর্মকর্তাদের সঙ্গে সাক্ষাত করবেন। তার এছাড়া জঙ্গিবিমান নির্মাণ স্থাপনা পরিদর্শনের কথা রয়েছে। বিএএফ প্রধানের এই সফর বিএএফে’র ভবিষ্য উৎস রূপায়নের ক্ষেত্রে সহায়ক হতে পারে।*

*বিএএফের প্রশিক্ষণের সুযোগ এবং দুই দেশ কিভাবে প্রতিরক্ষা বাণিজ্য বৃদ্ধি করা যায় তা নিয়ে রাশিয়ার ফেডারেল সার্ভিস ফর মিলিটারি টেকনিক্যাল কোঅপারেশনের (এফএসএমটিসি) প্রধানের সঙ্গে আলোচনা করবেন এসিএম সেরনিয়াবাত।*

*এমআই-১৭১ হেলিকপ্টার বাদে ইউরোপ বা আমেরিকার তৈরি জঙ্গিবিমান কিনতে বিএএফ আগ্রহী। ইউরোফাইটার টাইফুন ইএফ২০০০ জঙ্গিবিমান কেনার ব্যাপারে বিএএফ শিগগিরই ইউকের সঙ্গে একটি চুক্তি সই করতে যাচ্ছে। এই সংগ্রহ হেভি মাল্টিরোল কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফটের চাহিদা পূরণ করলেও মেরিটাইম স্ট্রাইক ফাইটার ও সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন ফাইটার এয়ারক্রাফটের ব্যাপারে এখনো সিদ্ধান্ত হয়নি।*

*



*

*সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন ফাইটারের মধ্যে রয়েছে এফ-১৬, জাস-৩৯ ও জে-১০। রাশিয়ার কোন সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন এয়ারক্রাফট নেই। যদিও তারা বিএএফের ‘ব্যাকবোন ফাইটার’ হিসেবে মিগ-৩৫ বিক্রির প্রস্তাব করেছে। তবে মেরিটাইম স্ট্রাইক ফাইটার এয়ারক্রাফট কম প্রতিযোগিতার সম্মুখিন হবে। কারণ এখানে শুধু আমেরিকা ও রাশিয়া প্রতিযোগিতা করছে এবং দেশগুলো এফ/এ-১৮ সি/ডি ও সু-৩০এসএমই ফাইটার বিক্রি করতে চায়।*

*বিএএফের কাছে আরেক স্কোয়াড্রন এডভান্সড জেট ট্রেইনার বিক্রি করার সুযোগ খুঁজছে রাশিয়া।*

*বিএএফের হাতে বর্তমানে ১৩টি ইয়ক-১৩০ এডভান্সড জেট ট্রেইনার রয়েছে। এরকম তিনটি দুর্ঘটনায় নষ্ট হয়েছে। এছাড়া অর্ধেক স্কোয়াড্রনের মতো মিগ-২৯বি/এসই এয়ার সুপেরিয়রিটি ফাইটারও তার ইনভেনটরিতে সক্রিয় রয়েছে।*

*এওয়াক্স এয়ারক্রাফটসহ একটি পরিপূর্ণ ন্যাটো মানের কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট ইনভেনটরি থাকলে তা সম্পূর্ণ কোহেরেন্ট মিশন ক্যাপাবিলিটি নিশ্চিত করার পাশাপাশি লজিস্টিক, ট্রেনিং ও অপারেশনাল এবিলিটির বোঝা লাঘব করবে। আর সে কারণে রাশিয়ার সঙ্গে বিএএফের কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট চুক্তি স্বাক্ষরের সম্ভাবনা কম।*

*http://bn.southasianmonitor.com/2019/08/29/72038*

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## ghost250

PARAKEET HUEY | More Bell-212 helicopters undergoing overhaul & upgrade by 208 MRO(U) of BAF. Pictured here a Bell-212 during flight tests! Looks like a parakeet flying through the greenery!

© Photo: Hasibul Hasan Nishat
Bangladesh Aviation Hub

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## KapitaanAli

shourov323 said:


> this video has all the answers.. ..in this video,air chief talks about a cost effective fighter nd it will certainly be mig-35..nd a bad fighter i presume..with this current state of baf ,mig-35 will be a huge boost ..


I called it long ago in one of these threads. MiG35 is the only thing that makes sense. I gave J10 some consideration because of the photo leaks, but it seems highly unlikely now.

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## polanski

Finally English Version of same Article. 




Rosoboronexport and Irkut Corporation are making a final bid to sell Su-35S and Su-30SME heavy multi-role fighter aircraft to the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) in an effort to secure a comprehensive aircraft, spares, munitions, infrastructure development and training deal.

BAF Chief of Staff Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Mashiuzzaman Serniabat is currently visiting Russia for 6 days from 26 August. He will visit the International Aviation and Space Show (MAKS) 2019 and meet with senior Russian defence officials and aircraft manufacturing facilities in a visit that will likely help shape the future source for the BAF.

ACM Serniabat will hold talks with the head of the Department of Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) of Russia to discuss how the two nations can increase defence trade and training scopes for Bangladesh Air Force.

BAF is keen on procuring European and American made aircraft with exception of Mi-171 helicopters.

BAF will shortly sign agreements with the United Kingdom for Eurofighter Typhoon EF2000 fighter aircraft. The acquisition will complete the requirement for “heavy multi-role combat aircraft” leaving the maritime strike fighters and single engine fighter aircraft still to be decided.

The single engine fighter aircraft segment is covered by F-16, Jas-39 and J-10 with Russia automatically out of the bid having no single engine fighters to offer even though they offered MiG-35 to become the “backbone fighter” of the BAF. However the maritime strike fighter aircraft will see less competition with only Americans and Russians in the race having proposed F/A-18 C/D and Su-30SME fighters.

Russia also has the opportunity to sell another squadron of advance jet trainers to the BAF provided they can manage to sell at least once squadron if fighter aircraft.

BAF currently operates only 13 Yak-130 advanced jet trainers having lost three to accidents. Half a squadron of MiG-29B/SE air superiority fighters is also operational in its inventory.

*Operating a complete NATO standard combat aircraft inventory including AEW&CS aircraft will ensure a fully coherent mission capability and ease the burden of logistics, training and operational ability. This is the main reason the BAF is unlikely to sign any deal with Russia for further combat aircraft.*
https://southasianmonitor.com/2019/...-su-35-in-a-bid-to-lure-bangladesh-air-force/


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## bd_4_ever

polanski said:


> BAF will shortly sign agreements with the United Kingdom for Eurofighter Typhoon EF2000 fighter aircraft. The acquisition will complete the requirement for “heavy multi-role combat aircraft” leaving the maritime strike fighters and single engine fighter aircraft still to be decided.



The only thing that gets my attention is this part. Is this happening even for real?


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## polanski

bd_4_ever said:


> The only thing that gets my attention is this part. Is this happening even for real?


Can't confirm. I have serious doubt. Three websites comes from Bangladesh. SouthAsianmonitor, bdmilitary and bdnewsnet. All three websites talk the same language. Could be false.

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## The Ronin

polanski said:


> Ohh I didn't realize the video comes from bdmilitary. That's explain a lot.



How is it BD military? COAS himself is saying it.



KapitaanAli said:


> I called it long ago in one of these threads. MiG35 is the only thing that makes sense. I gave J10 some consideration because of the photo leaks, but it seems highly unlikely now.



If sanction is an obstacle J-10 is the only eastern option. But BD Military keep saying it has engine issue when some are saying it's already sorted out. @Michael Corleone and other Chinese PDF member can clarify it maybe. @LKJ86



polanski said:


> Finally English Version of same Article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosoboronexport and Irkut Corporation are making a final bid to sell Su-35S and Su-30SME heavy multi-role fighter aircraft to the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) in an effort to secure a comprehensive aircraft, spares, munitions, infrastructure development and training deal.
> 
> BAF Chief of Staff Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Mashiuzzaman Serniabat is currently visiting Russia for 6 days from 26 August. He will visit the International Aviation and Space Show (MAKS) 2019 and meet with senior Russian defence officials and aircraft manufacturing facilities in a visit that will likely help shape the future source for the BAF.
> 
> ACM Serniabat will hold talks with the head of the Department of Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) of Russia to discuss how the two nations can increase defence trade and training scopes for Bangladesh Air Force.
> 
> BAF is keen on procuring European and American made aircraft with exception of Mi-171 helicopters.
> 
> BAF will shortly sign agreements with the United Kingdom for Eurofighter Typhoon EF2000 fighter aircraft. The acquisition will complete the requirement for “heavy multi-role combat aircraft” leaving the maritime strike fighters and single engine fighter aircraft still to be decided.
> 
> The single engine fighter aircraft segment is covered by F-16, Jas-39 and J-10 with Russia automatically out of the bid having no single engine fighters to offer even though they offered MiG-35 to become the “backbone fighter” of the BAF. However the maritime strike fighter aircraft will see less competition with only Americans and Russians in the race having proposed F/A-18 C/D and Su-30SME fighters.
> 
> Russia also has the opportunity to sell another squadron of advance jet trainers to the BAF provided they can manage to sell at least once squadron if fighter aircraft.
> 
> BAF currently operates only 13 Yak-130 advanced jet trainers having lost three to accidents. Half a squadron of MiG-29B/SE air superiority fighters is also operational in its inventory.
> 
> *Operating a complete NATO standard combat aircraft inventory including AEW&CS aircraft will ensure a fully coherent mission capability and ease the burden of logistics, training and operational ability. This is the main reason the BAF is unlikely to sign any deal with Russia for further combat aircraft.*
> https://southasianmonitor.com/2019/...-su-35-in-a-bid-to-lure-bangladesh-air-force/





polanski said:


> Can't confirm. I have serious doubt. Three websites comes from Bangladesh. SouthAsianmonitor, bdmilitary and bdnewsnet. All three websites talk the same language. Could be false.



It just copied and translated the whole article in Bengali from BD Military.  

https://www.defseca.com/procurement...ea9orXCdEG82HuuKbwlmSqmKrHIuwxTfuqK7hAZvFRkKc


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> If that happens BAF will need to change the whole training fleet and infrastructures. Then it will delay the MRCA procurement more, specially the choosing the backbone of the fleet. Cost will rise, govt will need to increase the budget. Also what will be the fate of our Yak-130 and K-8W fleet?
> 
> Besides it will be just like choosing Eastern origin fighter only and putting all eggs in one basket. The west do more weapon politics than Russia and China. They act like they own us. You can already see that from that retard PDF member here. USA forbade Pakistan to use F-16 against India.
> 
> What good will procuring american fighter jets do if we can't use them against our adversaries properly? What if the west gets upset if we take harsh action against Rohingya as these cunts are currently being quite troublesome and currently the terrorist hill-tracts are also making some chaos? The humanitarian organizations cry for both parties.
> 
> What if they decide to do weapon politics then? While they are sweet talking to us they are not sanctioning full embargo on Myanmar, still trying to enhance relationship with them. USA is just using this Rohingya issue and BAF's current dilemma to get BD in their club and reduce Chinese-Russian influence here to counter them. Also notice they rejected to sell or approve other country like Italy to sell fighter to us but now they are offering their product without congress obstacle? Do they smell money now?
> 
> http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article188.html
> 
> https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/...PAWRHsJop2NhgkCg4aC2m2_fT1zf1IATfteDMNssgpQ84
> 
> People are dancing about US but BD should take step VERY CAREFULLY. The best solution is to stick with EU, Russian and Chinese gear not bring any US stuff which has some serious string attached. USA won't sell their F-16V with full weapon package anyway. But one thing i can hope that this sudden US-EU relationship might sweeten Russian deal.
> 
> https://thedefensepost.com/2019/08/28/myanmar-us-asean-maritime-exercises/
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because there wasn't any other option and AJT was also suited for Russian MRCA.
> 
> 
> 
> You can say that about Hridoy Mahbub!!  I just try to follow every news i find from defence pages but that doesn't mean i don't think some news total BS. I just stopped saying what i really have in my mind cause "বললে চাকরি থাকবে না।"  Another thing is this guy's reports sometimes come true and provides more material and inside news than anyone, so can't really risk it either. And sometimes he gets triggered and treats people badly. Other local pages have same case. They are not matured like other international pages. So i rather be a fan of Dylan Malyasov and Xavier Vavasseur. QUWA's Billal vai is also good.


We Bangladeshis aren’t really good at good relations. I’ll chalk it up to that



The Ronin said:


> How is it BD military? COAS himself is saying it.
> 
> 
> 
> If sanction is an obstacle J-10 is the only eastern option. But BD Military keep saying it has engine issue when some are saying it's already sorted out. @Michael Corleone and other Chinese PDF member can clarify it maybe. @LKJ86
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just copied and translated the whole article in Bengali from BD Military.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...ea9orXCdEG82HuuKbwlmSqmKrHIuwxTfuqK7hAZvFRkKc


Idk why engine issue is always brought up. They’ve come a far way from that.



polanski said:


> Do you have a transcript of the video in English?
> 
> 
> Russian have shown AESA radar since 2016. Ref http://www.airrecognition.com/index...adar-test-phase-scheduled-for-early-2019.html
> 
> The new AESA radar is called Zhuk-AME or FGA50, he added. "_An export-oriented prototype of the Zhuk-AME was unveiled two years ago, at the Airshow China 2016 exhibition_," said the source.
> 
> Why did not use it themselves or delivered to Egypt? Answer from the same article:
> 
> "_Phazotron-NIIR is finishing the manufacturing of the first AESA radar for the MiG-29. We are finishing the assembling of the unit. It will be delivered to the RSK MiG Corporation_ [a subsidiary of the United Aircraft Corporation] _that will integrate it onto a specially prepared fighter jet. The tests of the radar are scheduled for early 2019_," said the source.
> 
> Russian Zhuk isn't ready now. PERIOD. Russian has shown the same radar MAKS 2019 as Russian does all the time. Putin has shown the animated video of nuclear power missile striking in Florida. That missile exploded in Russia during the test causing high radiation in some parts of Europe. Good Luck with Russian AESA radar.
> 
> There is zero chance that Bangladesh can afford Typhoon either. Let's assume Bangladesh financed through British bank UK Export Finance like Qatar then it will cost almost 2.5 billion pound buy 12 Typhoon in a complete packaged deal. Qatar is paying 5 billion pound for 24 Typhoon in a complete packaged deal.
> 
> https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...l-to-sell-typhoon-jets-to-qatar-idUKKCN1LY261


Let’s see what mateiralizes. I’ve a suspicion mig 35 is to come


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Michael Corleone said:


> We Bangladeshis aren’t really good at good relations.


Its an Bengali issue related with DNA mutation I guess...



Michael Corleone said:


> I’ve a suspicion mig 35 is to come


We should have procured from the Queens country mate. They love us...

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## Michael Corleone

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Its an Bengali issue related with DNA mutation I guess...
> 
> 
> We should have procured from the Queens country mate. They love us...


That included. Thought I’m not sure how things will span out


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> We Bangladeshis aren’t really good at good relations. I’ll chalk it up to that
> 
> 
> Idk why engine issue is always brought up. They’ve come a far way from that.
> 
> 
> Let’s see what mateiralizes. I’ve a suspicion mig 35 is to come


No nation is perfect but they try to be better. You have a tyrant at office so does we have a tyrant at white house. But the benefits of having a tyrant at office that Trump can make any decision on favour of anyone who pays for it.
I have no doubt that Sheikh Hasina put people in jail for Facebook posts and speaking freely which is a right under Bangladeshi constitution. She is a tyrant then why didn't she make faster decision in favour of any country either Russia or America or Britain or Italy or Sweden. Her son is an American citizen.

That point to Bangladesh military that top brass never take national Security seriously. You're spending billions on military establishment with no air defense or aerial deterrence. Any monkey can bomb your establishment and destroy everything. If military is not thinking about this then they're definitely dump, out of touch and incompetent. That's what I can think of.



The Ronin said:


> How is it BD military? COAS himself is saying it.
> 
> 
> 
> If sanction is an obstacle J-10 is the only eastern option. But BD Military keep saying it has engine issue when some are saying it's already sorted out. @Michael Corleone and other Chinese PDF member can clarify it maybe. @LKJ86
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just copied and translated the whole article in Bengali from BD Military.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...ea9orXCdEG82HuuKbwlmSqmKrHIuwxTfuqK7hAZvFRkKc


@The Ronin
Nutcase Bangladeshi think Chinese are not good at copying then why did Chinese buy Su-35? Why does China want to buy Su-57 when China has operational J-20?
Unhinged yourself from Yabba or Methamphetamine you will think clear.
China successfully developed WS-13 engine which are used in JF-17, J-10 and J-15. Yes WS-13 has some maintenance issues but oil leaks are fixed for now.

Truth and matter of fact, all J-15 and J-10 crash attribute to Russian engine. The J-10 that crashed was mounted with Russian engines.

Chinese Turbofan and Turboprop are mostly American, Russian and Franch engines which are reverse engineered to suit chinese engines requirements.

Lesson: China and Russia are


The Ronin said:


> How is it BD military? COAS himself is saying it.
> 
> 
> 
> If sanction is an obstacle J-10 is the only eastern option. But BD Military keep saying it has engine issue when some are saying it's already sorted out. @Michael Corleone and other Chinese PDF member can clarify it maybe. @LKJ86
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just copied and translated the whole article in Bengali from BD Military.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...ea9orXCdEG82HuuKbwlmSqmKrHIuwxTfuqK7hAZvFRkKc


bag full of cash under the table.

Key words of bdmilitary.com: shortly, Soon, Proposed, China, Russia, Rosoboronexport, MoU, Coming soon, select, watch out Myanmar.

My gut feeling is that bdmilitary.com is the local agent of Rosoboronexport. They're protecting their interest over country. There are many Indians who became rich brokering Indian Ministry of Defense and Rosoboronexport or Rostec. I am sure bdmilitary.com is becoming rich by brokering with Rosoboronexport. 

The same guy who has identical English sentences wherever he publish anything. This is the same guy who asked question in Twitter what is a synthetic aperture radar? There are many tools you can buy to deconstruct header of an website that point to same IP address and location i.e. bdmilitary.com, bdnewsnet and southasianmonitor.

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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> View attachment 576433
> 
> 
> PARAKEET HUEY | More Bell-212 helicopters undergoing overhaul & upgrade by 208 MRO(U) of BAF. Pictured here a Bell-212 during flight tests! Looks like a parakeet flying through the greenery!
> 
> © Photo: Hasibul Hasan Nishat
> Bangladesh Aviation Hub



Primer paint, will be painted over after tests and trials completed. These Bell-212's have been with BAF for ages and are good for decades more. Reliable as an anvil - as proven in every war since the Vietnam conflict.



EastBengalPro said:


> *সু-৩৫ কিনতে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীকে প্রলুব্ধ করছে রাশিয়া*
> *আসাফ খন্দেকার, আগস্ট ২৯, ২০১৯*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী (বিএএফ)’র কাছে সু-৩৫এস ও সু-৩০এসএমই হেভি মাল্টিরোল ফাইটার এয়ারক্রাফট বিক্রির জন্য রাশিয়ার রোজোবরোনেক্সপোর্ট ও ইরকুত কর্পোরেশন চূড়ান্ত প্রচেষ্টা শুরু করেছে। তারা এয়ারক্রাফট, খুচরা যন্ত্রাংশ, গোলাবারুদ, অবকাঠামো উন্নয়ন ও প্রশিক্ষণ বিষয়ে একটি ব্যাপকভিত্তিক চুক্তি করার চেষ্টা চালাচ্ছে।*
> 
> *বিএএফ প্রধান এয়ার চিফ মার্শাল মাসিহুজ্জামান সেরনিয়াবাত ২৬ আগস্ট থেকে ছয় দিনের সফরে রাশিয়া রয়েছেন। তিনি ইন্টারন্যাশনাল এভিয়েশন এন্ড স্পেস শো (এমএকেএস)-২০১৯ পরিদর্শন এবং রাশিয়ার সিনিয়র প্রতিরক্ষা কর্মকর্তাদের সঙ্গে সাক্ষাত করবেন। তার এছাড়া জঙ্গিবিমান নির্মাণ স্থাপনা পরিদর্শনের কথা রয়েছে। বিএএফ প্রধানের এই সফর বিএএফে’র ভবিষ্য উৎস রূপায়নের ক্ষেত্রে সহায়ক হতে পারে।*
> 
> *বিএএফের প্রশিক্ষণের সুযোগ এবং দুই দেশ কিভাবে প্রতিরক্ষা বাণিজ্য বৃদ্ধি করা যায় তা নিয়ে রাশিয়ার ফেডারেল সার্ভিস ফর মিলিটারি টেকনিক্যাল কোঅপারেশনের (এফএসএমটিসি) প্রধানের সঙ্গে আলোচনা করবেন এসিএম সেরনিয়াবাত।*
> 
> *এমআই-১৭১ হেলিকপ্টার বাদে ইউরোপ বা আমেরিকার তৈরি জঙ্গিবিমান কিনতে বিএএফ আগ্রহী। ইউরোফাইটার টাইফুন ইএফ২০০০ জঙ্গিবিমান কেনার ব্যাপারে বিএএফ শিগগিরই ইউকের সঙ্গে একটি চুক্তি সই করতে যাচ্ছে। এই সংগ্রহ হেভি মাল্টিরোল কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফটের চাহিদা পূরণ করলেও মেরিটাইম স্ট্রাইক ফাইটার ও সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন ফাইটার এয়ারক্রাফটের ব্যাপারে এখনো সিদ্ধান্ত হয়নি।*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন ফাইটারের মধ্যে রয়েছে এফ-১৬, জাস-৩৯ ও জে-১০। রাশিয়ার কোন সিঙ্গেল ইঞ্জিন এয়ারক্রাফট নেই। যদিও তারা বিএএফের ‘ব্যাকবোন ফাইটার’ হিসেবে মিগ-৩৫ বিক্রির প্রস্তাব করেছে। তবে মেরিটাইম স্ট্রাইক ফাইটার এয়ারক্রাফট কম প্রতিযোগিতার সম্মুখিন হবে। কারণ এখানে শুধু আমেরিকা ও রাশিয়া প্রতিযোগিতা করছে এবং দেশগুলো এফ/এ-১৮ সি/ডি ও সু-৩০এসএমই ফাইটার বিক্রি করতে চায়।*
> 
> *বিএএফের কাছে আরেক স্কোয়াড্রন এডভান্সড জেট ট্রেইনার বিক্রি করার সুযোগ খুঁজছে রাশিয়া।*
> 
> *বিএএফের হাতে বর্তমানে ১৩টি ইয়ক-১৩০ এডভান্সড জেট ট্রেইনার রয়েছে। এরকম তিনটি দুর্ঘটনায় নষ্ট হয়েছে। এছাড়া অর্ধেক স্কোয়াড্রনের মতো মিগ-২৯বি/এসই এয়ার সুপেরিয়রিটি ফাইটারও তার ইনভেনটরিতে সক্রিয় রয়েছে।*
> 
> *এওয়াক্স এয়ারক্রাফটসহ একটি পরিপূর্ণ ন্যাটো মানের কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট ইনভেনটরি থাকলে তা সম্পূর্ণ কোহেরেন্ট মিশন ক্যাপাবিলিটি নিশ্চিত করার পাশাপাশি লজিস্টিক, ট্রেনিং ও অপারেশনাল এবিলিটির বোঝা লাঘব করবে। আর সে কারণে রাশিয়ার সঙ্গে বিএএফের কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট চুক্তি স্বাক্ষরের সম্ভাবনা কম।*
> 
> *http://bn.southasianmonitor.com/2019/08/29/72038*



English translation:

Russia is tempting Bangladesh Air Force to buy Su-35
Asaf Khandakar, August 29, 2019








Russia's Rosoboronexport and Irkut Corporation have launched a comprehensive effort to sell Su-35S and Su-35SME heavy multirole fighter aircraft to the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF). They are trying to reach a broad-based agreement on aircraft, spare parts, ammunition, infrastructure development and training.

BAF Chief, Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat will be in Russia for a six-day visit from August 26. He will visit the International Aviation and Space Show (MAKS)-2019 and meet senior Russian defense officials. He is also scheduled to visit the manufacturing facilities for military aircraft there. This visit by the BAF Chief can help shape the future sourcing planning for the BAF.

ACM Sarniabat will hold talks with the head of the Russian Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) on BAF training opportunities and how the two countries can affect and increase in defence trade.

BAF is keen to buy Europe or US-made warplanes apart from MI-171 helicopters. BAF will reportedly soon sign an agreement with the UK on the purchase of Eurofighter Typhoon EF2000 fighter platform. Although this collection meets the needs of Heavy Multirole Combat Aircraft platform, the choices for the Maritime Strike Fighter and Single Engine Fighter Aircraft platforms have not yet been decided.






Single engine fighter choices under consideration include the F-16, JAS-39 and J-10. There is no single engine aircraft offered by Russia. Although for that role they have proposed the MiG-35 as BAF's 'backbone fighter'. However, the Maritime Strike Fighter aircraft will be less competitive. Because only America and Russia are competing here and these countries want to offer F/A-18 C/D and Su-35SME fighter platforms respectively.

Russia is looking for opportunities to sell another Squadron of Advanced Jet Trainers to BAF.

BAF currently has 13 Yak-130 Advanced Jet Trainers. Three have been lost in accidents. The MiG-29B/SE Air Superiority Fighter is also active in its inventory in about a half squadron strength.

Per current BAF thinking, having a full NATO-quality combat aircraft inventory, including AWACS Aircraft, will ensure fully coherent mission capability as well as reduce the burden of logistics, training and operational tasks.

And because of this, the BAF Combat Aircraft Agreement with Russia is less likely to be signed.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> No nation is perfect but they try to be better. You have a tyrant at office so does we have a tyrant at white house. But the benefits of having a tyrant at office that Trump can make any decision on favour of anyone who pays for it.
> I have no doubt that Sheikh Hasina put people in jail for Facebook posts and speaking freely which is a right under Bangladeshi constitution. She is a tyrant then why didn't she make faster decision in favour of any country either Russia or America or Britain or Italy or Sweden. Her son is an American citizen.
> 
> That point to Bangladesh military that top brass never take national Security seriously. You're spending billions on military establishment with no air defense or aerial deterrence. Any monkey can bomb your establishment and destroy everything. If military is not thinking about this then they're definitely dump, out of touch and incompetent. That's what I can think of.


I’m telling you, if this nation can’t order a plane within this year, then I’m joining your cause.

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## The Ronin



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## Avicenna

https://www.defseca.com/procurement...8w-jet-trainers-to-bangladesh-air-force-soon/

Again tried to cut and paste but it doesn't let me.

Apparently, 7 K-8W to be delivered next month.

Also another K-8W out of service due to an incident where it rolled off the runway.

So down to 7 in service and another 7 expected starting next month inshAllah.

This will make an eventual 14 for No.15 Squadron in Jessore.

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...8w-jet-trainers-to-bangladesh-air-force-soon/
> 
> Again tried to cut and paste but it doesn't let me.
> 
> Apparently, 7 K-8W to be delivered next month.
> 
> Also another K-8W out of service due to an incident where it rolled off the runway.
> 
> So down to 7 in service and another 7 expected starting next month inshAllah.
> 
> This will make an eventual 14 for No.15 Squadron in Jessore.


It's really funny now. A training aircraft skid off the runway. When did Bangladesh become Canada, Sweden or Russia? 
I have seen Chinese pilot landing aircraft during winter on snowy runway. What did Bangladesh learn from China after buying these aircraft. 
Thanks for posting. 
I'm guessing Sayeedayn International made money though they are distributor of Chinese and Russian products in Bangladesh.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...8w-jet-trainers-to-bangladesh-air-force-soon/
> 
> Again tried to cut and paste but it doesn't let me.
> 
> Apparently, 7 K-8W to be delivered next month.
> 
> Also another K-8W out of service due to an incident where it rolled off the runway.
> 
> So down to 7 in service and another 7 expected starting next month inshAllah.
> 
> This will make an eventual 14 for No.15 Squadron in Jessore.

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## POTTER

The Ronin said:


>


No offence but color scheme is not good.


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## Michael Corleone

POTTER said:


> No offence but color scheme is not good.


we agree, the old ones were better

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## mb444

polanski said:


> It's really funny now. A training aircraft skid off the runway. When did Bangladesh become Canada, Sweden or Russia?
> I have seen Chinese pilot landing aircraft during winter on snowy runway. What did Bangladesh learn from China after buying these aircraft.
> Thanks for posting.
> I'm guessing Sayeedayn International made money though they are distributor of Chinese and Russian products in Bangladesh.



Training aircraft skids off cause they are being flown by inexperienced pilots......says a lot about the quality of trainers that are with them...

BAF is totally demoralised and a failed organisation..... why would the trainee or the trainers themselves care...it is just a glorified logistics operation....

All these things are manifastation of the deep rot at the heart of the organisation....terrible shame.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Training aircraft skids off cause they are being flown by inexperienced pilots......says a lot about the quality of trainers that are with them...
> 
> BAF is totally demoralised and a failed organisation..... why would the trainee or the trainers themselves care...it is just a glorified logistics operation....
> 
> All these things are manifastation of the deep rot at the heart of the organisation....terrible shame.


The airplane is not written off... it skidded off after it landed.... it will be fixed and bought back... plenty of incidents occur in training flights in all air forces... this isn’t out of the ordinary.

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## The Ronin

mb444 said:


> Training aircraft skids off cause they are being flown by inexperienced pilots......says a lot about the quality of trainers that are with them...
> 
> BAF is totally demoralised and a failed organisation..... why would the trainee or the trainers themselves care...it is just a glorified logistics operation....
> 
> All these things are manifastation of the deep rot at the heart of the organisation....terrible shame.


 
I know you are pissed at BAF like me and others. But making the same old remarks without knowing the actual reason makes you look like an stupid. If you are not an expert or an experienced/skilled pilot yourself, refrain from talking BS about the trainee/trainer. They were on the plane, they know what happened and how to handle the situation. None of us so called online military experts have rights to criticize the if they are really not guilty. Whether the runway is dry or wet skidding is nothing new for civilian or military aircraft. You can find plenty examples on internet. Here's few for example.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/03/14/f-16-jet-fighter-skids-off-runway-in-pekanbaru.html
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/iaf-jaguar-jet-skids-off-runway-in-gujarat-1366640-2018-10-12
https://www.dailypress.com/dailypress/dp-nws-airport-jet-runway-20190509-story.html





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2367662763282236







Michael Corleone said:


> The airplane is not written off... it skidded off after it landed.... it will be fixed and bought back.



Well BAH says it's written off though.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Well BAH says it's written off though


I could be out of date with the info. Usually skid doesn’t result in the frame being totaled... but could be that engine failure was invasive into other parts of the fuselage? Any reported fire?


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> The airplane is not written off... it skidded off after it landed.... it will be fixed and bought back... plenty of incidents occur in training flights in all air forces... this isn’t out of the ordinary.


Every Air Force has a history of crash does but not like Bangladesh Air Guard. BAG crashed aircraft left right center. This organization is a shame for your country. Why don't BAG sign an training agreement with any country who has better track record of flying and executing missions correctly. Qatar recently signed an agreement with Boeing to train Qatari Emirati Air Force pilots. No shame on learning the craft. Not learning is shameful.

Training is not a political decision then why BAG stopped making a decision. Everyone knows their weaknesses.


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## polanski

A new MiG-35D two-seat, advanced “generation 4++” fighter lost a large wing panel from its left wing after takeoff during a flight demonstration at the MAKS Aviasalon 2019 air show at Zhukovsky Air Base outside Moscow on Thursday, August 29, 2019. The aircraft, which may have been crewed by a delegation from the Indian Air Force at the time of the panel separation, continued with its flight demonstration and landed without incident.

BAG chief watched this Russian Quality. 
Source the avianist.


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## polanski

Made in Russia. MiG-35's panel blow out during demonstration flight at MAKS 2019.






K-8W skidded off the runway. Date: August 19 2019. Source is in the photo. A Band of Morons. Another Down. $10m???

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> K-8W skidded off the runway. Date: August 19 2019. Source is in the photo. A Band of Morons. Another Down. $10m???


Emergency landing after engine failure.


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> I could be out of date with the info. Usually skid doesn’t result in the frame being totaled... but could be that engine failure was invasive into other parts of the fuselage? Any reported fire?



The report says it collided with the runway barrier, so the front side was totaled probably.



polanski said:


> A new MiG-35D two-seat, advanced “generation 4++” fighter lost a large wing panel from its left wing after takeoff during a flight demonstration at the MAKS Aviasalon 2019 air show at Zhukovsky Air Base outside Moscow on Thursday, August 29, 2019. The aircraft, which may have been crewed by a delegation from the Indian Air Force at the time of the panel separation, continued with its flight demonstration and landed without incident.
> 
> BAG chief watched this Russian Quality.
> Source the avianist.





polanski said:


> Made in Russia. MiG-35's panel blow out during demonstration flight at MAKS 2019.



Similar incident happened with an F-16 fighting falcon/viper belongs to a demo team. The panel that separated was on the aircraft’s left side, just behind the F-16’s M61A1 six-barrel, 20mm Gatling gun internal placement. The panel is used to gain access to components of the M61A1 Gatling gun for maintenance. The panel detached from the aircraft following a series of high-speed, high “G” maneuvers routinely showcased during the demonstration of the F-16’s maximum performance capabilities at airshows.

“It does happen occasionally. It’s just normal operating for an F-16, or any aircraft really. Sometimes latches fail,” USAF F-16 Viper Demo Team Commander Major Garrett Schmitz, callsign “Toro”, told TheAviationist.com in an interview on Saturday at Thunder Over Michigan. “Essentially what happened yesterday was, a latch failed, and the panel came off. While it’s not common, I would say it’s not un-common. It’s nothing that we’re concerned about. It’s something that happens, it’s part of flying, we fix the jet and move on.”

Did any country stop buying the jet?

https://theaviationist.com/2019/08/...ay-practice-at-thunder-over-michigan-airshow/

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> The report says it collided with the runway barrier, so the front side was totaled probably.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Similar incident happened with an F-16 fighting falcon/viper belongs to a demo team. The panel that separated was on the aircraft’s left side, just behind the F-16’s M61A1 six-barrel, 20mm Gatling gun internal placement. The panel is used to gain access to components of the M61A1 Gatling gun for maintenance. The panel detached from the aircraft following a series of high-speed, high “G” maneuvers routinely showcased during the demonstration of the F-16’s maximum performance capabilities at airshows.
> 
> “It does happen occasionally. It’s just normal operating for an F-16, or any aircraft really. Sometimes latches fail,” USAF F-16 Viper Demo Team Commander Major Garrett Schmitz, callsign “Toro”, told TheAviationist.com in an interview on Saturday at Thunder Over Michigan. “Essentially what happened yesterday was, a latch failed, and the panel came off. While it’s not common, I would say it’s not un-common. It’s nothing that we’re concerned about. It’s something that happens, it’s part of flying, we fix the jet and move on.”
> 
> Did any country stop buying the jet?
> 
> https://theaviationist.com/2019/08/...ay-practice-at-thunder-over-michigan-airshow/


Warplanes are sturdy mofos... I remember Israeli f15 still being stable after it lost a complete wing and landed safely. Nothing to be concerned about


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## Bilal9

POTTER said:


> No offence but color scheme is not good.



Repaint can be done in one week or less. Also, this is the airshow colors.


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Warplanes are sturdy mofos... I remember Israeli f15 still being stable after it lost a complete wing and landed safely. Nothing to be concerned about


Now I know why BAG doesn't buy fighter jets. BAG lacks quality training, flight hours, simulation hours, qualified and skilled instructors. Basically when Khaleda cancelled MiG procurement, BAG stopped every activity and was at sleep.
BAG wakes up now and realized times passed. All Southeast Asian Air Force becomes stronger and they become moron.
Hire better instructor from China to train K-8W and from Russia to train on Yak-13.
The way the aircraft landed, I'm guessing whoever was in control didn't know how to use the flight control system correctly using correct input by stick shaker to stop the aircraft on runway.
It's not just technical problems but training problems of BAG.

Please stop comparing Israeli Pilots with BAG pilots. Israeli pilots have superior intelligence, highly trained, thousands of flight hours and combat experience. The most important part of all these, Israel has the best Technology this planet has to offer.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

No wonder India won't face any problem pushing 4m Muslims, recently declared "non-citizens", to BD for BD folks simply don't care!!!!

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## polanski

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> No wonder India won't face any problem pushing 4m Muslims, recently declared "non-citizens", to BD for BD folks simply don't care!!!!


As we speak, Indian Air Marshal RD Marhur in Dhaka today to tell his subordinate not to buy any fighter jets or GBAD for Bangladesh. It's a visit necessary to stop Bangladesh buying any fighter jets. Allegedly, Rosoboronexport sponsored Bangladesh Air Guard chief visits to MAKS 2019. Rosoboronexport sponsored many invitations this years. Bangladesh is one of them. It's in their website.

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## ghost250

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> No wonder India won't face any problem pushing 4m Muslims, recently declared "non-citizens", to BD for BD folks simply don't care!!!!


ur dinner is served @Atlas vai

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Some BD folks are at the denial mode!! Good for them!!! Ignorance is bliss!!! In the meantime, their military headquarters have been completely taken over by the RAW!!! BD folks, however, aren't at all bothered...

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## bluesky

polanski said:


> As we speak, *Indian Air Marshal RD Marhur in Dhaka today to tell his subordinate not to buy any fighter jets* or GBAD for Bangladesh. It's a *visit necessary to stop Bangladesh buying any fighter jets*. Allegedly, Rosoboronexport sponsored Bangladesh Air Guard chief visits to MAKS 2019. Rosoboronexport sponsored many invitations this years. Bangladesh is one of them. It's in their website.


By reading your post, I have this idea that you personally attended the meeting held by Indian AOC-in-C with his BD counterpart. I wonder, what other important things were discussed. Can you highlight a few of them, please!!

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Now I know why BAG doesn't buy fighter jets. BAG lacks quality training, flight hours, simulation hours, qualified and skilled instructors. Basically when Khaleda cancelled MiG procurement, BAG stopped every activity and was at sleep.
> BAG wakes up now and realized times passed. All Southeast Asian Air Force becomes stronger and they become moron.
> Hire better instructor from China to train K-8W and from Russia to train on Yak-13.
> The way the aircraft landed, I'm guessing whoever was in control didn't know how to use the flight control system correctly using correct input by stick shaker to stop the aircraft on runway.
> It's not just technical problems but training problems of BAG.
> 
> Please stop comparing Israeli Pilots with BAG pilots. Israeli pilots have superior intelligence, highly trained, thousands of flight hours and combat experience. The most important part of all these, Israel has the best Technology this planet has to offer.


When Khaled stopped procurement. She purged half of that organization 
Why do you reckon so many trainers were bought? Simulator centers established? Because Bangladesh faced shortage of pilots... and it’s a problem across all platforms and branch of the armed forces. The pilots are sent to China for k8 and Russia for yak 130 training every year...
It’s easy for you and I to say what happened without being in the cockpit



Armchair said:


> The biggest highlight is bringing the culture of wife-swapping, famous among Indian military officers. This has now been transplanted in BD. "Swingers"


Nah mate... we don’t like to share... but we can definitely be your wife’s bull

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## polanski

bluesky said:


> By reading your post, I have this idea that you personally attended the meeting held by Indian AOC-in-C met with his BD counterpart. I wonder, what other important things were discussed. Can you highlight a few of them, please!!


@Armchair-General already answered the questions. Read his post above.


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> When Khaled stopped procurement. She purged half of that organization
> Why do you reckon so many trainers were bought? Simulator centers established? Because Bangladesh faced shortage of pilots... and it’s a problem across all platforms and branch of the armed forces. The pilots are sent to China for k8 and Russia for yak 130 training every year...
> It’s easy for you and I to say what happened without being in the cockpit


When a


Michael Corleone said:


> When Khaled stopped procurement. She purged half of that organization
> Why do you reckon so many trainers were bought? Simulator centers established? Because Bangladesh faced shortage of pilots... and it’s a problem across all platforms and branch of the armed forces. The pilots are sent to China for k8 and Russia for yak 130 training every year...
> It’s easy for you and I to say what happened without being in the cockpit


Ask an air ceash investigator, they will say the same as I said. Look at the picture again. If there is a engine failure, the K-8W would have lost thrust rapidly. It would not have any acceleration to overshoot the runway or skid off. Instructor pilot failed to regain control due time hence trainee pilot f$cked it. That's all.
So far BAG blamed weather, aircraft, runway, air traffic controllers, trees, neighbors wife except themselves who are mostly dump idiots.
Only one reason BAG is buying so many training aircraft because BAG is responsible for crashing so many aircraft and would run out of training options. Here is a short list of crash this year:
3x Yak-130
2×K-8W
3xMi-171
2×F-7

Now do you understand why BAG is buying training aircraft.

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## bluesky




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## ghost250

polanski said:


> When a
> 
> Ask an air ceash investigator, they will say the same as I said. Look at the picture again. If there is a engine failure, the K-8W would have lost thrust rapidly. It would not have any acceleration to overshoot the runway or skid off. Instructor pilot failed to regain control due time hence trainee pilot f$cked it. That's all.
> So far BAG blamed weather, aircraft, runway, air traffic controllers, trees, neighbors wife except themselves who are mostly dump idiots.
> Only one reason BAG is buying so many training aircraft because BAG is responsible for crashing so many aircraft and would run out of training options. Here is a short list of crash this year:
> 3x Yak-130
> 2×K-8W
> 3xMi-171
> 2×F-7
> 
> Now do you understand why BAG is buying training aircraft.


lol..there is only one incidnt happened this year..a k-8w skidded off from the runway....

*Two Yak-130 of Bangladesh Air Force crash after collision*
*https://defence-blog.com/news/two-yak-130-of-bangladesh-air-force-crash-after-collision.html..(2017s incidnt)*

*Two Air Force pilots killed as jet crashes in Jessore(k-8w,2018 incidnt)*

a mil mi-171sh was crashed due to bad weather in jan,2018..



u have a personal grudge against baf we all knw that...stop making up stories from ur rear end...now go to ur little masters section where u can plan "how to destroy ctg port within few secs,vogchod..

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> When a
> 
> Ask an air ceash investigator, they will say the same as I said. Look at the picture again. If there is a engine failure, the K-8W would have lost thrust rapidly. It would not have any acceleration to overshoot the runway or skid off. Instructor pilot failed to regain control due time hence trainee pilot f$cked it. That's all.
> So far BAG blamed weather, aircraft, runway, air traffic controllers, trees, neighbors wife except themselves who are mostly dump idiots.
> Only one reason BAG is buying so many training aircraft because BAG is responsible for crashing so many aircraft and would run out of training options. Here is a short list of crash this year:
> 3x Yak-130
> 2×K-8W
> 3xMi-171
> 2×F-7
> 
> Now do you understand why BAG is buying training aircraft.



Your posts are really entertaining.

But this one was inaccurate.

Also, what’s this grudge you seem to have against BAF?


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## TopCat

polanski said:


> When a
> 
> Ask an air ceash investigator, they will say the same as I said. Look at the picture again. If there is a engine failure, the K-8W would have lost thrust rapidly. It would not have any acceleration to overshoot the runway or skid off. Instructor pilot failed to regain control due time hence trainee pilot f$cked it. That's all.
> So far BAG blamed weather, aircraft, runway, air traffic controllers, trees, neighbors wife except themselves who are mostly dump idiots.
> Only one reason BAG is buying so many training aircraft because BAG is responsible for crashing so many aircraft and would run out of training options. Here is a short list of crash this year:
> 3x Yak-130
> 2×K-8W
> 3xMi-171
> 2×F-7
> 
> Now do you understand why BAG is buying training aircraft.


BAF had not much flying hour in them. So they are trying to catch up with these trainers. I told you long ago why BAF was buying so many trainers.
They named Yak-130 as ground attack aircraft, so the flying hours can be counted (my assumption)

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## Buddhistforlife

mb444 said:


> Training aircraft skids off cause they are being flown by inexperienced pilots......says a lot about the quality of trainers that are with them...
> 
> BAF is totally demoralised and a failed organisation..... why would the trainee or the trainers themselves care...it is just a glorified logistics operation....
> 
> All these things are manifastation of the deep rot at the heart of the organisation....terrible shame.


BAF is not a failed organisation. Our entire defence organisation did not progress after 2010. The problem is that successive government paid little attention to the defence sector and on top of that the government suffered from superiority complex.

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## loanranger

Imagine if the BAF was still PAF ! We would have driven india mad! PAF still doing that but you guys would have been proud too. Sad there must have been a reason from Allah for this.

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## polanski

shourov323 said:


> lol..there is only one incidnt happened this year..a k-8w skidded off from the runway....
> 
> *Two Yak-130 of Bangladesh Air Force crash after collision*
> *https://defence-blog.com/news/two-yak-130-of-bangladesh-air-force-crash-after-collision.html..(2017s incidnt)*
> 
> *Two Air Force pilots killed as jet crashes in Jessore(k-8w,2018 incidnt)*
> 
> a mil mi-171sh was crashed due to bad weather in jan,2018..
> 
> 
> 
> u have a personal grudge against baf we all knw that...stop making up stories from ur rear end...now go to ur little masters section where u can plan "how to destroy ctg port within few secs,vogchod..


Looks like you're taking pride after crashing aircraft after aircraft. How many aircraft Southeast Asian and Arabs countries crashed this year. Only Egyptian Air crashed aircraft involving Chinese K-8 and Russian made brand new MiG-29M2. Did you see any Arab crashed America made fighter aircraft during training.
You have a dodgy trainer and dump trainee.



bluesky said:


>


Do you think everyone in this forum speak and understand your language.
I rarely see Pakistani or Indian writing in their language but Bangladeshi always posting content of their language. How do you communicate with Rosoboronexport and Norinco?


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## ghost250

polanski said:


> Looks like you're taking pride after crashing aircraft after aircraft. How many aircraft Southeast Asian and Arabs countries crashed this year. Only Egyptian Air crashed aircraft involving Chinese K-8 and Russian made brand new MiG-29M2. Did you see any Arab crashed America made fighter aircraft during training.
> You have a dodgy trainer and dump trainee.
> 
> 
> Do you think everyone in this forum speak and understand your language.
> I rarely see Pakistani or Indian writing in their language but Bangladeshi always posting content of their language. How do you communicate with Rosoboronexport and Norinco?


how many aircrafts have crashed by BAF "in 2019"...?? only one...a k-8w...actually,that aircraft wasnt carshed..skidded off from the runway..it will back to service in due time..just look at bharti airforce..how many did they crash this year..12-13??..why dont u talk about that??

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/...force-jet-crashes-in-chiang-mai-pilot-killed/

AIR FORCE JET CRASHES IN CHIANG MAI, PILOT KILLED(thai airforce-2019)

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1639594/old-air-force-plane-crashes
Old air force plane crashes(thai airforce-2019)

*vietnam*
*https://thedefensepost.com/2019/06/14/vietnam-air-force-pilots-killed-yak-52-plane-crash/*
Vietnam air force pilots killed in Yak-52 plane crash

*https://www.thejakartapost.com/seas...s-killed-in-vietnam-military-plane-crash.html*

"In July 2018, two pilots were killed when training in central Nghe An province in a Russian-made Sukhoi Su-22 that belonged to Vietnam's Air Defence Force"

do u want more??

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Looks like you're taking pride after crashing aircraft after aircraft. How many aircraft Southeast Asian and Arabs countries crashed this year. Only Egyptian Air crashed aircraft involving Chinese K-8 and Russian made brand new MiG-29M2. Did you see any Arab crashed America made fighter aircraft during training.
> You have a dodgy trainer and dump trainee.
> 
> 
> Do you think everyone in this forum speak and understand your language.
> I rarely see Pakistani or Indian writing in their language but Bangladeshi always posting content of their language. How do you communicate with Rosoboronexport and Norinco?



Just curious.

What’s YOUR original language?

Clearly English isn’t.

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> Just curious.
> 
> What’s YOUR original language?
> 
> Clearly English isn’t.


What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write. 
In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are many linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi!


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## Bilal9

polanski said:


> What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write.
> In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are many linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi!



He means your English language usage and grammar skills need more work....it is clear to anyone who reads what you post....

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## bluesky

polanski said:


> Do you think everyone in this forum speak and understand your language.
> I rarely see Pakistani or Indian writing in their language but Bangladeshi always posting content of their language. How do you *communicate with Rosoboronexport and Norinco*?


Do you think a fool like me is able to understand your fuzzy quiz? Better talk straight instead of telling us you are over-smart in your fatr fatr English. An Englishman may be ashamed to see the high-level of your English composition.

But, you did not reveal what you heard in the meeting between the BD and Indian Air Chiefs. Is it very classified? I wonder, why then you have revealed the main news that BD has been instructed by your Indian Chief not to buy any more planes. 

Someday, your Navy Chief also will visit Dhaka to order our Navy Chief not to buy any more Chinese submarines. So, keep your fingers crossed.

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## UKBengali

polanski said:


> What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write.
> In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are many linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi!



Dude, which country are you originally from?
Clearly you are not an educated American.

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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> Dude, which country are you originally from?
> Clearly you are not an educated American.



Either a Bangladeshi of the rajakar variety or from the baper desh of the rajakars.


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## bluesky

polanski said:


> What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write.
> In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are many linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi!


Someone asked you about your mother tongue and you are coming with how to sell products online. Most of your sentences in every post are out of context. We don't care what your native language is but try to write objectively and within the context.

We do not need an online English teacher here and even if we need you are not the one we will select to teach us English. We will find out our own teacher and pay him handsomely. Is it understood?


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write.
> In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are many linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi!



No offense but every time I read your posts I picture you IRL as being some angry Bangladeshi or Indian immigrant driving an Uber and posting on PDF and writing your blog online with your Ryan Smith pen name.

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## bluesky

polanski said:


> What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write.
> In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are many linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi!



You have many mistakes in your sentences above. I have corrected them for you to learn from a fool. Note the changes in the parentheses. Your sentences are full of mistakes. Please take care next time.

"What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? (*The)* Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write.

In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a (*an) *interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are *many (much)* linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. (*Do) *They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi"!


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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> No offense but every time I read your posts I picture you IRL as being some angry Bangladeshi or Indian immigrant driving an Uber and posting on PDF and writing your blog online with your Ryan Smith pen name.


Good on you. You explained yourself very well.



bluesky said:


> You have many mistakes in your sentences above. I have corrected them for you to learn from a fool. Note the changes in the parentheses. Your sentences are full of mistakes. Please take care next time.
> 
> "What do you think is my language? I am obviously not a bilingual person. Can't you differentiate English? (*The)* Only language I ever knew is English besides Google translator is helpful. Sometimes that doesn't work either due to language you guys write.
> 
> In that case, I could use a predictive software that indicates some sort of language then find a (*an) *interpreter at a place and time where suit both. Use tradecrafts to figure out. There are *many (much)* linguistic software out there that does the job. Question for you: What do you think of Sayeedayn International, bdmilitary.com or Mahi International of Bangladesh. (*Do) *They make millions of dollars by selling products and brokering with Rosoboronexport, Norinco? Bonanza for many Bangladeshi"!


Turth, isn't it? Which company do you work amongst the three?



Bengal71 said:


> Either a Bangladeshi of the rajakar variety or from the baper desh of the rajakars.


Look at this post. You have posted a true Bangladeshi English.



Bilal9 said:


> He means your English language usage and grammar skills need more work....it is clear to anyone who reads what you post....


That's right Bilal Miah.


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## bluesky

polanski said:


> Turth, isn't it? Which company do you work amongst the three?


Are you hiring people or are you yourself to be hired? Please improve your English to be respected by other members of this forum. Write correct sentences.


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## Sehnsucht

How many squadrons of fighters does BAF eventually plan to procure?I heard somewhere that it's supposed to be 10 squadrons according to FG2030.But it doesn't seem feasible to me considering our economy & that BAF hasn't even ordered 1 squadron yet.


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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> How many squadrons of fighters does BAF eventually plan to procure?I heard somewhere that it's supposed to be 10 squadrons according to FG2030.But it doesn't seem feasible to me considering our economy & that BAF hasn't even ordered 1 squadron yet.




Economy is NOT the issue.

BD economy is 320 billion US dollars expected to grow at 8-9% a year till 2030. Plenty of money is and will become available.

It is just a case of will.


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## Sehnsucht

UKBengali said:


> Economy is NOT the issue.
> 
> BD economy is 320 billion US dollars expected to grow at 8-9% a year till 2030. Plenty of money is and will become available.
> 
> It is just a case of will.



I know Bangladesh is doing well economically.But do you really think we'll be able to procure & maintain 160 fighters by 2030? The jets alone might cost about 25 billions.Possibly much more.
Our GDP is projected to be at 700 billions by 2030.Going by defence spending of 2018 (1.2% of GDP), we end up with a defence budget of 8.4 billions.
I don't see how it'll be possible to get & operate that many jets with so small a budget.Don't forget we'll need to build new bases, get new trainers, transport aircrafts, AWACS etc. as well.So the actual cost will be much more than that. 
I'll be happy to be proven wrong of course.But I don't think I am.

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> I know Bangladesh is doing well economically.But do you really think we'll be able to procure & maintain 160 fighters by 2030? The jets alone might cost about 25 billions.Possibly much more.
> Our GDP is projected to be at 700 billions by 2030.Going by defence spending of 2018 (1.2% of GDP), we end up with a defence budget of 8.4 billions.
> I don't see how it'll be possible to get & operate that many jets with so small a budget.Don't forget we'll need to build new bases, get new trainers, transport aircrafts, AWACS etc. as well.So the actual cost will be much more than that.
> I'll be happy to be proven wrong of course.But I don't think I am.



You’re 100 percent correct.

10 squadrons by 2030 is a joke.

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> I know Bangladesh is doing well economically.But do you really think we'll be able to procure & maintain 160 fighters by 2030? The jets alone might cost about 25 billions.Possibly much more.
> Our GDP is projected to be at 700 billions by 2030.Going by defence spending of 2018 (1.2% of GDP), we end up with a defence budget of 8.4 billions.
> I don't see how it'll be possible to get & operate that many jets with so small a budget.Don't forget we'll need to build new bases, get new trainers, transport aircrafts, AWACS etc. as well.So the actual cost will be much more than that.
> I'll be happy to be proven wrong of course.But I don't think I am.




Actually BD spends 1.5% on defence when arms spending is taken into account. Defence spending could hit 10 billion US dollars in today's money in 2030.
Also, please bear in mind that BD will be paying up till 2035 for the last batch of fighters that it gets by 2030.


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## Sehnsucht

UKBengali said:


> Actually BD spends 1.5% on defence when arms spending is taken into account. Defence spending could hit 10 billion US dollars in today's money in 2030.
> Also, please bear in mind that BD will be paying up till 2035 for the last batch of fighters that it gets by 2030.



Time will tell I suppose.I'd be overjoyed if we manage to get even half that number. 80 modern 4.5th generation jet backed by decent SAM cover will not only be able to outmatch the MAF, but also deter the IAF should the need ever arise.

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## loanranger

Petrichor said:


> Time will tell I suppose.I'd be overjoyed if we manage to get even half that number. 80 modern 4.5th generation jet backed by decent SAM cover will not only be able to outmatch the MAF, but also deter the IAF should the need ever arise.


Wait I thought Bangladesh listens to India after they got you independence. Can your officers even agree to fight them?Also why are you guys looking to outmatch RMAF are they not your muslim brothers. Then again we were too and look what happened.


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

loanranger said:


> Wait I thought Bangladesh listens to India after they got you independence. Can your officers even agree to fight them?Also why are you guys looking to outmatch RMAF are they not your muslim brothers. Then again we were too and look what happened.


You are (very) bad at trolling...

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## Sehnsucht

loanranger said:


> Wait I thought Bangladesh listens to India after they got you independence. Can your officers even agree to fight them?Also why are you guys looking to outmatch RMAF are they not your muslim brothers. Then again we were too and look what happened.



Please do not troll & derail the thread.If you have anything of value to add, you're welcome to do so.

As for your misconceptions,Bangladesh DOES NOT listen to India. In case you haven't noticed, virtually all of our weapons are Chinese in origin.
A hostile India is simply not in our interest.Nor do we have nukes as you do to keep India in check.That's why the government keeps good relation with India although the population largely dislikes the dadagiri attitude of India & the subservient attitude of the GoB.
Also, MAF = Myanmar Air Force.
RMAF = Royal Malaysian Air Force.
See the difference?

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## Nasr

loanranger said:


> Imagine if the BAF was still PAF ! We would have driven india mad! PAF still doing that but you guys would have been proud too. Sad there must have been a reason from Allah for this.



My dear brother and fellow countryman, regardless of could have been. From a purely strategic stand point, the union could exist in the real world scenario. I do not say this on political grounds, rather from geographical point of view, where the two territories being 1000 miles apart, with the enemy in the middle. From a military stand point, this is not feasible. However and independent Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, both economically robust, with strong military and diametrically opposed to indian hegemony. Add to that, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh all allied with China. Now that is a nightmare scenario for India, one which would make it increasingly difficult for it to project itself as a regional power, let alone a super power.

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## Sehnsucht

loanranger said:


> Then again we were too and look what happened.



The Malaysian are our Muslim brothers just as the Pakistanis are.
Don't play the victim of 71.It was the fault of your administration, Yahya & Bhutto, who refused to handover power to the elected representative of people & instead ordered for atrocities to be committed against their own countrymen. 
However, that was on the past.This is now. As the two Muslim countries of the subcontinent bordering an increasingly hostile & pro-hindutva India, we should focus on building better relations with our countries instead of throwing mud at each other.



Nasr said:


> My dear brother and fellow countryman, regardless of could have been. From a purely strategic stand point, the union could exist in the real world scenario. I do not say this on political grounds, rather from geographical point of view, where the two territories being 1000 miles apart, with the enemy in the middle. From a military stand point, this is not feasible. However and independent Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, both economically robust, with strong military and diametrically opposed to indian hegemony. Add to that, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh all allied with China. Now that is a nightmare scenario for India, one which would make it increasingly difficult for it to project itself as a regional power, let alone a super power.



This post deserves a positive rating.

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## bluesky

loanranger said:


> Wait I thought Bangladesh listens to India after they got you independence. Can your officers even agree to fight them?Also why are you guys looking to outmatch RMAF are they not your muslim brothers. Then again we were too and look what happened.


You guys always sing the same song incessantly without recognizing our own wish because of your own fault. Why do you guys blame India for things done by your leaders? Note that we are happy not to share our destiny and wealth with Pakistan anymore after 1971.

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## polanski

bluesky said:


> Are you hiring people or are you yourself to be hired? Please improve your English to be respected by other members of this forum. Write correct sentences.


I am sure you're hired by Mahi International or Sayeedayn International. So I'm guessing you're one of the members who were sponsored by Rosoboronexport. It's a question of personal gain and profitability over loosing a battle and accommodating Rohingya terrorists. You're going to EU and America to beg funds to feed those losers. You got to know English before you beg from us.



Petrichor said:


> How many squadrons of fighters does BAF eventually plan to procure?I heard somewhere that it's supposed to be 10 squadrons according to FG2030.But it doesn't seem feasible to me considering our economy & that BAF hasn't even ordered 1 squadron yet.



This is the best post I have seen after a long time. Good laughter. Thanks for that.
A Bangladeshi guy name Sayeed Amar Khan who sale rice and lentils to DGDP, came up with the idea that Bangladesh will buy 10 squadrons of fighters jets which will include F-22, J-20, J-31 and F-35. Do you really believe propaganda of bdmilitary.com?


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## bluesky

polanski said:


> You got to know English before *you beg from us.*


Where are you from, is it Somalia or Nigeria?


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## monitor

C-130J & the Parliament House




Close up of our First C-130J Hercules

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> You’re 100 percent correct.
> 
> 10 squadrons by 2030 is a joke.



We are doomed in the defence sector.


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## Michael Corleone

I heard someone claim that it’s not all 10 squadrons of offensive platform but a mix of everything... 4-6 of them will be for offensive platforms... at this point I could care less about who’s right and who said what...
Burma is negotiating for additional sales of sukhoi aircrafts

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> I heard someone claim that it’s not all 10 squadrons of offensive platform but a mix of everything... 4-6 of them will be for offensive platforms... at this point I could care less about who’s right and who said what...
> Burma is negotiating for additional sales of sukhoi aircrafts



Where did you hear about the additional Burma sales?


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> Where did you hear about the additional Burma sales?


https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/myanmar-mulling-purchase-of-additional-su-30s-706296.html

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Where did you hear about the additional Burma sales?


Probably in defres, bdmilitary later talked on it

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> I heard someone claim that it’s not all 10 squadrons of offensive platform but a mix of everything... 4-6 of them will be for offensive platforms... at this point I could care less about who’s right and who said what...
> Burma is negotiating for additional sales of sukhoi aircrafts



SS said that but when former COAS made it clear himself, it doesn't matter what some civilian guy says about it. Although it seems impossible now. It's not FG 2030 anymore, it's FG 2040.  And now BD Military is saying EFT deal will be signed before this year end. Will they win this fourth round? 


https://www.defseca.com/premium/the...5-8lcwWsOumbhWsg86GmJUTABP86kGjiEv6iLGTaKpt40

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## Sehnsucht

The Ronin said:


> SS said that but when former COAS made it clear himself, it doesn't matter what some civilian guy says about it. Although it seems impossible now. It's not FG 2030 anymore, it's FG 2040.  And now BD Military is saying EFT deal will be signed before this year end. Will they win this fourth round?
> 
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/premium/the...5-8lcwWsOumbhWsg86GmJUTABP86kGjiEv6iLGTaKpt40



Although far-fetched, a fleet of 2 squadrons of Typhoons backed by 4 squadron of single engine jets would be a dream come true.Preferably Gripen with Meteor (because of high availability, cheap maintenance, high rate of sorties & network-centric warfare).
Or F-16 with AIM-120 AMRAAM because of US backing(even the supplying of these jets by US will send a strong message to the neighbours).
If plan is for diversification, then J-10 C with SD-10 and/or PL-15 would be nice as well.Typhoons forming the tip of the spear while the single engine jets form the workforce. 
We would not only match MAF at quality, but also quantity as well while also providing a potent, qualitative deterrent for IAF.

But all of these are just speculations as consolation for the fact that BAF seems to be sleeping while our rival air forces are on a shopping spree.
Although I have hopes that BAF will have a pleasant surprise for us in the end InshaAllah.Because otherwise it'll show ineptitude of a level that I refuse to believe is possible to exist.

-------Rant over-------

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## mb444

Petrichor said:


> Although far-fetched, a fleet of 2 squadrons of Typhoons backed by 4 squadron of single engine jets would be a dream come true.Preferably Gripen with Meteor (because of high availability, cheap maintenance, high rate of sorties & network-centric warfare).
> Or F-16 with AIM-120 AMRAAM because of US backing(even the supplying of these jets by US will send a strong message to the neighbours).
> If plan is for diversification, then J-10 C with SD-10 and/or PL-15 would be nice as well.), would be a dream come true.Typhoons forming the tip of the spear while the single engine jets form the workforce.
> We would not only match MAF at quality, but also quantity as well while also providing a potent, qualitative deterrent for IAF.
> 
> But all of these are just speculations as consolation for the fact that BAF seems to be sleeping while our rival air forces are on a shopping spree.
> Although I have hopes that BAF will have a pleasant surprise for us in the end InshaAllah.Because otherwise it'll show ineptitude of a level that I refuse to believe is possible to exist.
> 
> -------Rant over-------



Amen to that. BD should just bite the bullet and order 3 sqd of EFT and MAF neutralized in an instant and IAF given pause for thought. It will buy us a half a decade to get our acts together.

We buy Russian at this stage and we might as well shoot ourselves.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> SS said that but when former COAS made it clear himself, it doesn't matter what some civilian guy says about it. Although it seems impossible now. It's not FG 2030 anymore, it's FG 2040.  And now BD Military is saying EFT deal will be signed before this year end. Will they win this fourth round?
> 
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/premium/the...5-8lcwWsOumbhWsg86GmJUTABP86kGjiEv6iLGTaKpt40


Lmao, I sense this going down and drain and clogging it al back up xD


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## Avicenna

I’m wondering how much of a capability gap the BAF is waiting for before acting.

This is Burma for goodness sakes.

Now looking at more Flankers and perhaps MiG-35 if not SU-57 when they were alluding to their interest in next generation types.

What the F are you doing BAF?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I’m wondering how much of a capability gap the BAF is waiting for before acting.
> 
> This is Burma for goodness sakes.
> 
> Now looking at more Flankers and perhaps MiG-35 if not SU-57 when they were alluding to their interest in next generation types.
> 
> What the F are you doing BAF?


Next up, BAF just signed deal for Tempest sixth gen


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## Buddhistforlife

The Ronin said:


> SS said that but when former COAS made it clear himself, it doesn't matter what some civilian guy says about it. Although it seems impossible now. It's not FG 2030 anymore, it's FG 2040.  And now BD Military is saying EFT deal will be signed before this year end. Will they win this fourth round?
> 
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/premium/the...5-8lcwWsOumbhWsg86GmJUTABP86kGjiEv6iLGTaKpt40


BAF should have a diversified air force. Relying solely on American jets won't help. For BAF, quantity and quality, both matters at this stage. BAF cannot buy too much of American products because they are expensive. Instead some Russian, some Chinese and some French, and some American jets will fulfill the demand of quality and quantity. American F 16, French Mirage 2000/mirage 5, Chinese Chengdu j10/JF 17, Russian su 30 will boost up BAF considerably. But I doubt the government will ever take such initiative of strengthening the air Force.


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## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> BAF should have a diversified air force. Relying solely on American jets won't help. For BAF, quantity and quality, both matters at this stage. BAF cannot buy too much of American products because they are expensive. Instead some Russian, some Chinese and some French, and some American jets will fulfill the demand of quality and quantity. American F 16, French Mirage 2000/mirage 5, Chinese Chengdu j10/JF 17, Russian su 30 will boost up BAF considerably. But I doubt the government will ever take such initiative of strengthening the air Force.



Operating so many different types of jets will be a logistical nightmare. IMO, BAF may go for three platforms at most.One from US,one from EU & one from China.
However, even that might be hard to afford.In that case, procuring one from US/EU & one from China would be best.I believe we should get double engine jets from EU as China doesn't have any of that sort which it might export to us.
Russian jets *MUST* avoided unless there's no other options. Not only because they're not as advanced as their western counterpart, but also cause of their high maintenance cost, low availability,low service life compared to many other western jets etc.Also, their relations with India goes much deeper than with us.

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## ghost250

bangladesh airforce section of pdf should be shut down untill BAF go for a actual fighter..goto 100 page e amra shudhu hudai pechal partesi..kine na baal da r amra eikhane talkshow khuila boshchhi..

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> Operating so many different types of jets will be a logistical nightmare. IMO, BAF may go for three platforms at most.One from US,one from EU & one from China.
> However, even that might be hard to afford.In that case, procuring one from US/EU & one from China would be best.I believe we should get double engine jets from EU as China doesn't have any of that sort which it might export to us.
> Russian jets *MUST* avoided unless there's no other options. Not only because they're not as advanced as their western counterpart, but also cause of their high maintenance cost, low availability,low service life compared to many other western jets etc.Also, their relations with India goes much deeper than with us.




Russia jets a definite no due to US sanctions.

Best combo would be Gripen E from Sweden and J-10C from China. That would allow free reign to fight either Myanmar and India at a cost that BD can afford.


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## Buddhistforlife

shourov323 said:


> bangladesh airforce section of pdf should be shut down untill BAF go for a actual fighter..goto 100 page e amra shudhu hudai pechal partesi..kine na baal da r amra eikhane talkshow khuila boshchhi..


BAF buys mostly trainer Jets or transportation jets like the Lockheed Martin aircraft they bought in this year.



Petrichor said:


> Operating so many different types of jets will be a logistical nightmare. IMO, BAF may go for three platforms at most.One from US,one from EU & one from China.
> However, even that might be hard to afford.In that case, procuring one from US/EU & one from China would be best.I believe we should get double engine jets from EU as China doesn't have any of that sort which it might export to us.
> Russian jets *MUST* avoided unless there's no other options. Not only because they're not as advanced as their western counterpart, but also cause of their high maintenance cost, low availability,low service life compared to many other western jets etc.Also, their relations with India goes much deeper than with us.


No. Russian weapons and better than Chinese weapons IMO

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## Sehnsucht

shourov323 said:


> bangladesh airforce section of pdf should be shut down untill BAF go for a actual fighter..goto 100 page e amra shudhu hudai pechal partesi..kine na baal da r amra eikhane talkshow khuila boshchhi..



এইখানে বকবক কইরা মনটারে সান্ত্বনা দিই ভাই।যতদিন পর্যন্ত বাফের ঘুম না ভাঙে,আর কিছু তো করার নাই।



UKBengali said:


> Russia jets a definite no due to US sanctions.
> 
> Best combo would be Gripen E from Sweden and J-10C from China. That would allow free reign to fight either Myanmar and India at a cost that BD can afford.



We'll need a double engine platform with maritime strike capability as well.Don't forget in case war with Myanmar & India, they'll probably try to block our access to the Bay of Bengal.While Gripen can use AShM, because of it's single engine, there remains a risk.



Buddhistforlife said:


> No. Russian weapons and better than Chinese weapons IMO


Yes I agree. But in case of war with Myanmar or India, Russia can't be counted on to take our side or stay neutral.In fact, it's highly likely that they will support Myanmar/India.Also, as @UKBengali vai said, sanctions are a problem too.I doubt US will grant us any waivers when they themselves are trying to get us buy their weapons.
On the other hand, we can certainly count on China to supply us with spares, missiles etc. in case of war against India while the European/US jets will be able to deter Myanmar.It's doubtful they'll take side of Myanmar in case of war against us.

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> We'll need a double engine platform with maritime strike capability as well.Don't forget in case war with Myanmar & India, they'll probably try to block our access to the Bay of Bengal.While Gripen can use AShM, because of it's single engine, there remains a risk.




Good point but Gripen E can carry anti-ship missile with 300km range. This will keep enemy ships far away from BD shores. Also it carries an extremely reliable US-derived engine that has never failed in more than 2 decades of service of more than 200 aircraft.

BN is also planning to procure no less than 8 next-gen frigates and modern submarines will also be coming.Myanmar is no threat, only India is. Gripen E + RBS-15 combo can work with these platforms to keep India from even thinking about trying a sea blockade of BD

Typhoon is just far too expensive and I would rather have say 2 squadrons(32) of Gripen E than 1 squadron(16) of Typhoon.

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## Sehnsucht

UKBengali said:


> Good point but Gripen E can carry anti-ship missile with 300km range. This will keep enemy ships far away from BD shores. Also it carries an extremely reliable US-derived engine that has never failed in more than 2 decades of service of more than 200 aircraft.
> 
> BN is also planning to procure no less than 8 next-gen frigates and modern submarines will also be coming.Myanmar is no threat, only India is. Gripen E + RBS-15 combo can work with these platforms to keep India from even thinking about trying a sea blockade of BD
> 
> Typhoon is just far too expensive and I would rather have say 2 squadrons(32) of Gripen E than 1 squadron(16) of Typhoon.



All good points.Gripen is an excellent aircraft in it's class no doubt.But I think Typhoon with it's conformal fuel tanks, deep strike capability, higher service ceiling, slightly better radar, more hardpoints & payload etc. will still be a good choice for BAF.
Tbh I'll be happy with either. Both of them will give us qualitative edge over MAF & also act as a potent deterrent against IAF.But we need to get them soon.
Also, I believe the latest version of RBS-15 has a range of some 200 KM.

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## Michael Corleone

Petrichor said:


> We'll need a double engine platform with maritime strike capability as well.Don't forget in case war with Myanmar & India, they'll probably try to block our access to the Bay of Bengal.While Gripen can use AShM, because of it's single engine, there remains a risk.


Myanmar doesn’t have that capability, their blockade capacity is limited, India could try enforce a blockade on us but not Myanmar 
Also we could place a blockade but I’m sure ganjakhor politicians will not d slightly anything wrong to displease China



Petrichor said:


> All good points.Gripen is an excellent aircraft in it's class no doubt.But I think Typhoon with it's conformal fuel tanks, deep strike capability, higher service ceiling, slightly better radar, more hardpoints & payload etc. will still be a good choice for BAF.
> Tbh I'll be happy with either. Both of them will give us qualitative edge over MAF & also act as a potent deterrent against IAF.But we need to get them soon.


All I worry about is buying 8 aircrafts for the next 30 years... better not have an air force like that.


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## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> All good points.Gripen is an excellent aircraft in it's class no doubt.But I think Typhoon with it's conformal fuel tanks, deep strike capability, higher service ceiling, slightly better radar, more hardpoints & payload etc. will still be a good choice for BAF.
> Tbh I'll be happy with either. Both of them will give us qualitative edge over MAF & also act as a potent deterrent against IAF.But we need to get them soon.


Bangladesh will never fight with India. That's a paranoid thinking. Bangladesh is more likely to fight a war against Myanmar in the near future if the rohingya issue gets too complicated.

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> All good points.Gripen is an excellent aircraft in it's class no doubt.But I think Typhoon with it's conformal fuel tanks, deep strike capability, higher service ceiling, slightly better radar, more hardpoints & payload etc. will still be a good choice for BAF.
> Tbh I'll be happy with either. Both of them will give us qualitative edge over MAF & also act as a potent deterrent against IAF.But we need to get them soon.
> Also, I believe the latest version of RBS-15 has a range of some 200 KM.




Nope, Mark 4 version can hit targets at least 300km away.

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## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> All good points.Gripen is an excellent aircraft in it's class no doubt.But I think Typhoon with it's conformal fuel tanks, deep strike capability, higher service ceiling, slightly better radar, more hardpoints & payload etc. will still be a good choice for BAF.
> Tbh I'll be happy with either. Both of them will give us qualitative edge over MAF & also act as a potent deterrent against IAF.But we need to get them soon.
> Also, I believe the latest version of RBS-15 has a range of some 200 KM.


India is too strong for us. Indian armed forces is a battle tested army. They fought wars against Pakistan, China, LTTE etc while Bangladesh army does not have actual combat experience although they fought CHT insurgency.

India is 4th largest power with nuclear weapons. Their air force, navy, and army cannot be compared with Myanmar or Bangladesh. Indian army, Navy and air force beats both Myanmar and Bangladesh in terms of quality and quantity.

Of course Bangladesh armed forces can become a major armed forces, but we will severely be behind India for the next 10 15, years.

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## Sehnsucht

Michael Corleone said:


> Myanmar doesn’t have that capability, their blockade capacity is limited, India could try enforce a blockade on us but not Myanmar
> Also we could place a blockade but I’m sure ganjakhor politicians will not d slightly anything wrong to displease China


Myanmar as of right now doesn't have the capability to enforce a blockade.However, that might change in the future.
Besides, India already has the ability.So my post was mainly focused on that. We must be prepared for any eventuality.

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> Myanmar as of right now doesn't have the capability to enforce a blockade.However, that might change in the future.
> Besides, India already has the ability.So my post was mainly focused on that. We must be prepared for any eventuality.




Myanmar will NEVER have the capability to enforce a blockade on BD.

It's economy is 4.5x smaller than BD and is getting smaller relative each year as BD grows quicker. Their Navy is a joke compared to BN and will become even more in the future as the next gen frigates start rolling out early next decade.

What is currently a threat is their airforce but just 1-2 squadrons of Western fighters will take care of MAF.

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## Sehnsucht

Michael Corleone said:


> All I worry about is buying 8 aircrafts for the next 30 years... better not have an air force like that.


If that should be the case, then we're better off disbanding BAF, take the aircrafts under army aviation wing & instead go the Iran route & focus on building a potent missile arsenal.



UKBengali said:


> Nope, Mark 4 version can hit targets at least 300km away.



Then it'll be excellent if we can get them.Do you think we might be able to get them for our indigenous frigate program as well?
And will they fall under MTCR?

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> Then it'll be excellent if we can get them.Do you think we might be able to get them for our indigenous frigate program as well?
> And will they fall under MTCR?



Ah, it may be denied as MTCR places a limit of 300km for missiles.

Anyway a lesser ranged version of say 250km will suffice.

BD needs to make a proposal to Sweden and they are likely to say yes as India has little sway as they do not buy much Swedish defence hardware.

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## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> India is too strong for us. Indian armed forces is a battle tested army. They fought wars against Pakistan, China, LTTE etc while Bangladesh army does not have actual combat experience although they fought CHT insurgency.
> 
> India is 4th largest power with nuclear weapons. Their air force, navy, and army cannot be compared with Myanmar or Bangladesh. Indian army, Navy and air force beats both Myanmar and Bangladesh in terms of quality and quantity.
> 
> Of course Bangladesh armed forces can become a major armed forces, but we will severely be behind India for the next 10 15, years.



The goal is not to match India for every piece of hardware they have.That's virtually impossible considering their size.Instead we should build a military that'll be able to give India a bloody nose should they try any misadventure with us.

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> The goal is not to match India for every piece of hardware they have.That's virtually impossible considering their size.Instead we should build a military that'll be able to give India a bloody nose should they try any misadventure with us.




A fully armed BD can severely Indian military in war that it will be left exposed to attack by Pakistan and China.


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## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bangladesh will never fight with India. That's a paranoid thinking. Bangladesh is more likely to fight a war against Myanmar in the near future if the rohingya issue gets too complicated.



Again.We must be prepared for *any* eventuality. Besides, sanghi government can't be trusted.



UKBengali said:


> A fully armed BD can severely Indian military in war that it will be left exposed to attack by Pakistan and China.


Exactly! India can't focus all of their forces on BD as it'll have to maintain their forces on Pakistan & Chinese border too.
Frankly, the stupidity of the sanghis astound me.They already got their hands full with Pakistan & China.Yet they're still going to great lengths to turn BD hostile against them as well.

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## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> Again.We must be prepared for *any* eventuality. Besides, sanghi government can't be trusted.


We also need ballistic missiles. Bangladesh army badly needs SRBM. Iran's ballistic missiles are one of the reason which makes the nation formidable in it's neighbourhood.


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## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> We also need ballistic missiles. Bangladesh army badly needs SRBM. Iran's ballistic missiles are one of the reason which makes the nation formidable in it's neighbourhood.


Agreed!And long range cruise missiles as well.


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## Buddhistforlife

UKBengali said:


> Myanmar will NEVER have the capability to enforce a blockade on BD.
> 
> It's economy is 4.5x smaller than BD and is getting smaller relative each year as BD grows quicker. Their Navy is a joke compared to BN and will become even more in the future as the next gen frigates start rolling out early next decade.
> 
> What is currently a threat is their airforce but just 1-2 squadrons of Western fighters will take care of MAF.


I would not call their Navy a joke at this moment although before they had one of the weakest navy in Asia. Their naval capabilities will increase once they buy the LPD and kilo class submarines. BN should not become lousy and underestimate a militarily aggressive nation like Myanmar. We are not God and cannot predict the future. Anything can happen within the next 5 to 10 years.

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## UKBengali

Buddhistforlife said:


> I would not call their Navy a joke at this moment although before they had one of the weakest navy in Asia. Their naval capabilities will increase once they buy the LPD and kilo class submarines. BN should not become lousy and underestimate a militarily aggressive nation like Myanmar. We are not God and cannot predict the future. Anything can happen within the next 5 to 10 years.



BN will get relatively larger than them.

Nothing to worry about here.


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## Buddhistforlife

UKBengali said:


> BN will get relatively larger than them.
> 
> Nothing to worry about here.


Let's see in the future.


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## Michael Corleone

Petrichor said:


> Myanmar as of right now doesn't have the capability to enforce a blockade.However, that might change in the future.
> Besides, India already has the ability.So my post was mainly focused on that. We must be prepared for any eventuality.


Many would deny it but the fact is, bangladesh’s Naval deference is being built with India in mind... not Burma.

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## Bilal9

Petrichor said:


> On the other hand, we can certainly count on China to supply us with spares, missiles etc. in case of war against India while the European/US jets will be able to deter Myanmar.It's doubtful they'll take side of Myanmar in case of war against us.



I could not agree with this 100%. China will look after its own interest in getting very large oil resources using pipelines from Myanmar in Bay of Bengal shale-pelagic oil reserves. Helping or selling Bangladesh with a few aircraft/spares is not a large leverage against that. Plus they have and will invest in industrial installations in both Bangladesh and Myanmar. They will try to avoid/diffuse destabilizing conflict in-between either country. Brother @haidian your comments please...



Buddhistforlife said:


> India is too strong for us. Indian armed forces is a battle tested army. They fought wars against Pakistan, China, LTTE etc while Bangladesh army does not have actual combat experience although they fought CHT insurgency.



Glorifying India like it was a superpower is amusing. And Battle-tested is a misnomer because in every conflict they fought so far, they either got really lucky (1971 with Pakistan for example) or been given a really bad taste of their own medicine (1962 with China) when the Chinese Army called the shots and kept their territory in Ladakh. Please read up before commenting.

I have heard stories of Indian soldiers running away leaving their dirty weapons on the warfield in 1962 before Chinese soldiers cleaned them up and handed them back to India after the ceasefire. I have also heard my family members comment about Indian SU-7's and MiG-21's trying to bomb Dhaka's airfield (at treetop level) in 1971 and simply crashing in the process. Pakistani pilots put up a brave dogfight resistance with simple outdated F-86 sabres and downed many aggressor Indian jets. My folks saw these dogfights from their own rooftops. India boasts a lot, but remains to be seen how many of their weapons actually work during a conflict. Look at this well-planned Indian projectile execution, there are numerous more and I could go on.






The intent is not to match India weapon for weapon (not practical). It is to take enough measures on Bangladesh side to make them think hard tactically and strategically before they try any misadventure. That said, even actual skirmish or small confrontations with any branch of the Indian armed-forces is quite unlikely at this point in time. BGB/BSF skirmishes may flare up from time to time because of divvying smuggler loots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War



Petrichor said:


> Instead we should build a military that'll be able to give India a bloody nose should they try any misadventure with us.



Exactly....


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## Buddhistforlife

Bilal9 said:


> I could not agree with this 100%. China will look after its own interest in getting very large oil resources using pipelines from Myanmar in Bay of Bengal shale-pelagic oil reserves. Helping or selling Bangladesh with a few aircraft/spares is not a large leverage against that. Plus they have and will invest in industrial installations in both Bangladesh and Myanmar. They will try to avoid/diffuse destabilizing conflict in-between either country. Brother @haidian your comments please...
> 
> 
> 
> Glorifying India like it was a superpower is amusing. And Battle-tested is a misnomer because in every conflict they fought so far, they either got really lucky (1971 with Pakistan for example) or been given a really bad taste of their own medicine (1962 with China) when the Chinese Army called the shots and kept their territory in Ladakh. Please read up before commenting.
> 
> I have heard stories of Indian soldiers running away leaving their dirty weapons on the warfield in 1962 before Chinese soldiers cleaned them up and handed them back to India after the ceasefire. I have also heard my family members comment about Indian SU-7's and MiG-21's trying to bomb Dhaka's airfield (at treetop level) in 1971 and simply crashing in the process. Pakistani pilots put up a brave dogfight resistance with simple outdated F-86 sabres and downed many aggressor Indian jets. My folks saw these dogfights from their own rooftops. India boasts a lot, but remains to be seen how many of their weapons actually work during a conflict. Look at this well-planned Indian projectile execution, there are numerous more and I could go on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intent is not to match India weapon for weapon (not practical). It is to take enough measures on Bangladesh side to make them think hard tactically and strategically before they try any misadventure. That said, even actual skirmish or small confrontations with any branch of the Indian armed-forces is quite unlikely at this point in time. BGB/BSF skirmishes may flare up from time to time because of divvying smuggler loots.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly....


Bangladesh army is not Chinese army or Pakistan army. We cannot do what Pakistan or China can do with India, at least not currently. My opinion on India is based on any possible India- Bangladesh conflict.


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bangladesh army is not Chinese army or Pakistan army. We cannot do what Pakistan or China can do with India, at least not currently. My opinion on India is based on any possible India- Bangladesh conflict.


If your realm of discussion is nuclear warfare, ofc not... but Bangladesh army can play clean or dirty (guerrilla) depending on the scenarios and 180k guerrilla fighters is not a joke

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## Dual Wielder

Just buy a batch of the up coming JF17 Thunder block 3, and not only would you guys get decent planes for your buck, the biggest USP is the fact that since it's a Pakistani/Chinese origin this will give India psychological nightmares for at least a decade.


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## Buddhistforlife

Dual Wielder said:


> Just buy a batch of the up coming JF17 Thunder block 3, and not only would you guys get decent planes for your buck, the biggest USP is the fact that since it's a Pakistani/Chinese origin this will give India psychological nightmares for at least a decade.


Why would we buy JF-17 when we can afford American/European aircraft. JF-17 is for countries like North Korea and Myanmar


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## Dual Wielder

Buddhistforlife said:


> BAF should have a diversified air force. Relying solely on American jets won't help. For BAF, quantity and quality, both matters at this stage. BAF cannot buy too much of American products because they are expensive. Instead some Russian, some Chinese and some French, and some American jets will fulfill the demand of quality and quantity. American F 16, French Mirage 2000/mirage 5, Chinese Chengdu j10/*JF 17*, Russian su 30 will boost up BAF considerably. But I doubt the government will ever take such initiative of strengthening the air Force.



Those are your own words not mine..


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## Sehnsucht

Dual Wielder said:


> Just buy a batch of the up coming JF17 Thunder block 3, and not only would you guys get decent planes for your buck, the biggest USP is the fact that since it's a Pakistani/Chinese origin this will give India psychological nightmares for at least a decade.



JF-17 Block 3 could be a possible contender because it can use Chinese BVR, can carry AShM, AESA (I think?),certainty of spares in case of war & because they're one of the cheapest 4th generation fighters in the world, we'll be able to field them in huge numbers.As Stalin once said, "Quantity is a quality of it's own."
However, it has yet to enter into service with PAF.And after it enters service, it'll be a while before it can be exported as PAC will be busy with PAF orders.Besides, with current government, it'll be impossible for BAF to get them.

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## Michael Corleone

Dual Wielder said:


> Just buy a batch of the up coming JF17 Thunder block 3, and not only would you guys get decent planes for your buck, the biggest USP is the fact that since it's a Pakistani/Chinese origin this will give India psychological nightmares for at least a decade.


Huge national security risk now that y’all have sold our adversaries those


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Huge national security risk now that y’all have sold our adversaries those



Not necessarily.

If BAF has Block 3 where MAF is limited to Block 2 you can have sort of a qualitative edge being preserved despite in theory flying the same type.

i.e F-16 in the Egypt Israel scenario.

Or for that matter the munitions neutered
F-16s that the Iraqi Air Force flies.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> If BAF has Block 3 where MAF is limited to Block 2 you can have sort of a qualitative edge being preserved despite in theory flying the same type.
> 
> i.e F-16 in the Egypt Israel scenario.
> 
> Or for that matter the munitions neutered
> F-16s that the Iraqi Air Force flies.


Given how far China is willing to go, I’m not really sure they won’t disclose weapon codes to compromise security... you don’t see the navy looking at alternative options for frigates


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Given how far China is willing to go, I’m not really sure they won’t disclose weapon codes to compromise security... you don’t see the navy looking at alternative options for frigates



Yea I agree with that.

Chinese interests above all.

In that respect, Bangladesh loses to Myanmar every time.

That’s where Uncle Sam (or his friends) comes in.

The real issue is access to the PL-15 and other latest gen weapons.

I can see China supporting Myanmar in any hot conflict despite seemingly neutral words.

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## Buddhistforlife

If this news is true, then it will be a big blow for Bangladesh. When will BAF wake up?

@Neptune @UKBengali @Avicenna @Michael Corleone @Petrichor @Bilal9 @shourov323

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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 578492
> 
> 
> If this news is true, then it will be a big blow for Bangladesh. When will BAF wake up?
> 
> @Neptune @UKBengali @Avicenna @Michael Corleone @Petrichor @Bilal9 @shourov323


Bangladesh has no choice but to go full western now :/


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## ghost250

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 578492
> 
> 
> If this news is true, then it will be a big blow for Bangladesh. When will BAF wake up?
> 
> @Neptune @UKBengali @Avicenna @Michael Corleone @Petrichor @Bilal9 @shourov323


though they r growing pretty fast (MAF) but dont think they can fulfill this khawaab of theirs pretty soon...


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## Buddhistforlife

shourov323 said:


> though they r growing pretty fast (MAF) but dont think they can fulfill this khawaab of theirs pretty soon...


Obviously not. SU 57 is a 5th generation costly air craft. Myanmar can afford only 4 of these at max. Turkey is a developed nation yet they could only manage to purchase 4 F-35, another 5th generation aircraft.

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## TopCat

Buddhistforlife said:


> Obviously not. SU 57 is a 5th generation costly air craft. Myanmar can afford only 4 of these at max. Turkey is a developed nation yet they could only manage to purchase 4 F-35, another 5th generation aircraft.


But they can always get TOT from Russia and build themselves.
What do you think @Aung Zaya


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## Buddhistforlife

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 578492
> 
> 
> If this news is true, then it will be a big blow for Bangladesh. When will BAF wake up?
> 
> @Neptune @UKBengali @Avicenna @Michael Corleone @Petrichor @Bilal9 @shourov323


Hey guys, there is a high chance that this is a fake news. This site does not sound reliable. Although another website posted this but I'm not sure whether this news is reliable or not. Here is the news from another portal


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Obviously not. SU 57 is a 5th generation costly air craft. Myanmar can afford only 4 of these at max. Turkey is a developed nation yet they could only manage to purchase 4 F-35, another 5th generation aircraft.


Turkey got cut out with sanctions otherwise they would have gotten more


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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh has no choice but to go full western now :/


Well if you ask me, then both the defence sector and our government is fully aware of what they need to do but we Bangladeshi as a nation is very dishonest. Corruption has badly affected us and corruption will also result in mis management of our defence sector. We have too much of dishonest and illiterate/half literate people in our country.

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## bluesky

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh has no choice but to go full western now :/


Buy a few squadrons of F-22 American.


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## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 578492
> 
> 
> If this news is true, then it will be a big blow for Bangladesh. When will BAF wake up?
> 
> @Neptune @UKBengali @Avicenna @Michael Corleone @Petrichor @Bilal9 @shourov323



Doubtful.

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## Aung Zaya

Buddhistforlife said:


> Hey guys, there is a high chance that this is a fake news. This site does not sound reliable. Although another website posted this but I'm not sure whether this news is reliable or not. Here is the news from another portal
> 
> View attachment 578499


just click bait. nothing more

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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> Buy a few squadrons of F-22 American.


Lmao



Buddhistforlife said:


> Well if you ask me, then both the defence sector and our government is fully aware of what they need to do but we Bangladeshi as a nation is very dishonest. Corruption has badly affected us and corruption will also result in mis management of our defence sector. We have too much of dishonest and illiterate/half literate people in our country.


Still skeptical in us getting anything in AF dept.


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## ghost250

Spectacular vertical climb by BAF MiG 29

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## Bilal9

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bangladesh army is not Chinese army or Pakistan army. We cannot do what Pakistan or China can do with India, at least not currently. My opinion on India is based on any possible India- Bangladesh conflict.



It is obvious you are not close to Bangladesh armed forces opinion-leaders. Whatever opinion you express is yours only. Please stop saying 'we' like you represent our armed forces - it is misleading. If you want to be a fifth columnist, have the courage to declare it openly.

War-fighting doctrine is a complex subject - it requires careful study of historical wars/battles. I would not offer this type of cavalier opinions on the state of our armed forces and their capabilities without sufficient expertise and knowledge. Nobody died and made you an expert on our armed forces.

You constant glorification of Indian military capabilities (in spite of having a Bangladeshi flag) is disconcerting to say the least. Most people would posit that you are a false-flagger Indian.


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## The Ronin



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## Buddhistforlife

Bilal9 said:


> It is obvious you are not close to Bangladesh armed forces opinion-leaders. Whatever opinion you express is yours only. Please stop saying 'we' like you represent our armed forces - it is misleading. If you want to be a fifth columnist, have the courage to declare it openly.
> 
> War-fighting doctrine is a complex subject - it requires careful study of historical wars/battles. I would not offer this type of cavalier opinions on the state of our armed forces and their capabilities without sufficient expertise and knowledge. Nobody died and made you an expert on our armed forces.
> 
> You constant glorification of Indian military capabilities (in spite of having a Bangladeshi flag) is disconcerting to say the least. Most people would posit that you are a false-flagger Indian.


.

Lolz. If you call being realistic as glorification of the Indian army then I have no remorse mate.

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## The Ronin

https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/s_doc/3260.pdf

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## bluesky

Buddhistforlife said:


> .
> 
> Lolz. If you call being realistic as glorification of the Indian army then I have no remorse mate.


Just stop bullshitting here with your continuous ignorant posts, please!! It seems you are kin of @Riyad. Do not try to derail the threads by posting unrelated points. People should avoid you.


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## Buddhistforlife

bluesky said:


> Just stop bullshitting here with your continuous ignorant posts, please!! It seems you are kin of @Riyad. Do not try to derail the threads by posting unrelated points. People should avoid you.


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2411276898920822

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1238241859686055

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## The Ronin

Helicopter fleet on roll.....

Bangladesh Air Force (BAF)











8xMiG-29 of Bangladesh Air Force resting inside the hanger of BAF Base Bangabandhu (VGHS).

©Bangladesh Defence






HEAD-ON WITH HERCULES | The latest Super Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force has made her maiden takeoff from Tejgaon which is also their home unit, 101 Special Flying Unit
Four more C-130Js will join the fleet soon!






BAF's latest recruit has been kept busy lately, conducting training flights and visiting Tejgaon for touch and go!

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## LKJ86

Beijing, China 
September 17, 2019

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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> Beijing, China
> September 17, 2019
> View attachment 579768



Nice photo.

Now what is the significance?


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## ziaulislam

Best bet was jf17 or j10 before mayanmur...

Now its gripen but dont be surprised if u end up with sanctions

So next option is rafale..but that is mighty expensive 

Su30&mig29 too costly to operate a logistics nightmare unless you go big and create a full setup


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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> Best bet was jf17 or j10 before mayanmur...
> 
> Now its gripen but dont be surprised if u end up with sanctions
> 
> So next option is rafale..but that is mighty expensive
> 
> Su30&mig29 too costly to operate a logistics nightmare unless you go big and create a full setup



Haha.

So then whats left?

It's actaully a very interesting situation we have here.


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## ziaulislam

Avicenna said:


> Haha.
> 
> So then whats left?
> 
> It's actaully a very interesting situation we have here.


I would go for J10/jf17
Bangladesh already uses chinese stuff like c802..so why reluctance with other stuff

If bangladesh gets an assembly line with full maintenance setup spares or weapon wouldn't be an issue

I think both bangladesh and myanmur are equally important ...Chinese will not take sides IMO

If bangladesh was worried about chinese influence than they shouldn't have been buying chinse frigates and subs..

Lastly in case of jf17 theoretically bangladesh can opt for hybrid Italian radars weapons (grifo and mica/meteor)

However that was 8 years ago... how open are chinese to this now is unkown..

Lastly gripen is something to look at


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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> I would go for J10/jf17
> Bangladesh already uses chinese stuff like c802..so why reluctance with other stuff
> 
> If bangladesh gets an assembly line with full maintenance setup spares or weapon wouldn't be an issue
> 
> I think both bangladesh and myanmur are equally important ...Chinese will not take sides IMO
> 
> If bangladesh was worried about chinese influence than they shouldn't have been buying chinse frigates and subs..
> 
> Lastly in case of jf17 theoretically bangladesh can opt for hybrid Italian radars weapons (grifo and mica/meteor)
> 
> However that was 8 years ago... how open are chinese to this now is unkown..
> 
> Lastly gripen is something to look at



Personally, I think there are some politics going on behind the scenes which is delaying the choice/choices.

I wouldn't buy anything Russian.

I would mix it up Chinese and EU/US.

So maybe J-10 or JF-17 Block 3 with a Western type ex RAF Typhoons?.

Short to medium term the threat is Myanmar but long term its India.

I think the politics of the equation have changed post 2017 however.

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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> I would go for J10/jf17
> Bangladesh already uses chinese stuff like c802..so why reluctance with other stuff
> 
> If bangladesh gets an assembly line with full maintenance setup spares or weapon wouldn't be an issue
> 
> I think both bangladesh and myanmur are equally important ...Chinese will not take sides IMO
> 
> If bangladesh was worried about chinese influence than they shouldn't have been buying chinse frigates and subs..
> 
> Lastly in case of jf17 theoretically bangladesh can opt for hybrid Italian radars weapons (grifo and mica/meteor)
> 
> However that was 8 years ago... how open are chinese to this now is unkown..
> 
> Lastly gripen is something to look at


Bangladesh is moving away from Chinese weapons gradually, the frigate program was supposed to have type 54 and everything was ready to be signed but then rohynga happened, China vetoed for Burma and most of what were to be purchased from them is cancelled.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Haha.
> 
> So then whats left?
> 
> It's actaully a very interesting situation we have here.



What's left is Tejas which will miraculously combine ground attack, trainer, interceptor, naval attack platform etc. all different roles according to Bharti brochure. I think Indians are definitely pushing Hasina hard on that front....

They can't find one good customer for their POS Tejas garbage, but we are there right next door. Money is there for the asking....



Avicenna said:


> Personally, I think there are some politics going on behind the scenes which is delaying the choice/choices.



Bingo - right on the money, Chaiwala effect.....


----------



## The Ronin

*Bangladesh air force team at Air+Mak Industries Inc.*

Bangladesh air force team at Air+Mak Industries Inc. to take possession of their specially designed MAK 20TR ACU skid mounted on a truck. This is a one of a kind high pressure Air conditioning unit designed and developed by Air+Mak to fulfill the cooling needs of a FGFA trainer aircraft primarily used by this military branch.

https://www.airmak.com/index.php/ne...D8AYBe0T66pkVrs__ot40e1dY9h-R13HqjyT2fRmxfgs4






















Avicenna said:


> Now what is the significance?



BD Military is back to J-10 again for 6 squadrons of MMRCA.

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Now what is the significance?



A hand shake.

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Operating so many different types of jets will be a logistical nightmare. IMO, BAF may go for three platforms at most.One from US,one from EU & one from China.
> However, even that might be hard to afford.In that case, procuring one from US/EU & one from China would be best.I believe we should get double engine jets from EU as China doesn't have any of that sort which it might export to us.
> Russian jets *MUST* avoided unless there's no other options. Not only because they're not as advanced as their western counterpart, but also cause of their high maintenance cost, low availability,low service life compared to many other western jets etc.Also, their relations with India goes much deeper than with us.



Not to mention you are likely not getting any political advantage from buying Russian.

They are essentially mercenaries selling to both sides.

At least with the US/EU there is some political backing albeit due to THEIR interests and not BD’s.

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## Tagaung

Avicenna said:


> Nice photo.
> 
> Now what is the significance?



just a normal bilateral meeting between China and BD for more cooperation. 

*link:*
https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/china/2019-09-17/doc-iicezueu6412274.shtml




*Chinese Defense Minister Meets with Chief of Staff of Bangladesh Air Force*


On September 17, Wei Fenghe, State Councilor and Minister of National Defense, met with the Bangladesh Air Force Chief of Staff Mas Huzaman in Beijing.

Wei Fenghe said that China and Bangladesh are traditional friendly neighbors. Since the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries, they have always worked together. China highly appreciates the firm support of Bangladesh on the issue of China's core interests and will, as always, firmly support Bangladesh's efforts to maintain national stability and promote social development. China is willing to work with Bangladesh to inge on the important consensus reached between President Kin Ping and Prime Minister Hasina, further strengthen friendly exchanges and mutually beneficial cooperation in various fields, and push forward bilateral relations. The Chinese and Bangladeshi armed forces have a fraternal friendship. They hope that the two sides will maintain the momentum of high-level exchanges, deepen pragmatic cooperation in the fields of equipment technology and personnel training, support each other, help each other, and promote the development of relations between the two militaries to a higher level.

Mashuzaman said that China is an important partner of Bangladesh. Bangladesh thanked China for its long-term support and help, firmly supported the one-China policy, and actively participated in the construction of the “Belt and Road”. Bangladesh is willing to work together with China to strengthen pragmatic exchanges and cooperation between the two militaries, especially the Air Force.

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## Michael Corleone

J10


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## bluesky

Michael Corleone said:


> J10


J-10 is about $30 million apiece. Although expensive I would prefer three sqs. of F-22 American for BAF.


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## Sehnsucht

bluesky said:


> Although expensive I would prefer three sqs. of F-22 American for BAF.


Are you serious?

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## The Ronin

Myanmar Air Force member with Bangladeshi F-7 BGI. During the delivery it used Burmese airspace and stopped there for refueling. 

PC- Zawyu Htoon


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Myanmar Air Force member with Bangladeshi F-7 BGI. During the delivery it used Burmese airspace and stopped there for refueling.
> 
> PC- Zawyu Htoon


This dude is an airmen in Burmese Air Force. He replied in defres page


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## bluesky

Petrichor said:


> Are you serious?


I am sure that F-22, if not F-35, is the most suitable plane for the BAF. It is expensive and I am not the Chief Executive of the country. Also, the USA just does not sell its best planes to an impoverished poor country whose population numbers more than the population of Russia, the largest country in the world.


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> I am sure that F-22, if not F-35, is the most suitable plane for the BAF. It is expensive and I am not the Chief Executive of the country. Also, the USA just does not sell its best planes to an impoverished poor country whose population numbers more than the population of Russia, the largest country in the world.


Why shortsell yourself, tempest can be had like tomorrow


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## Buddhistforlife

Bilal9 said:


> What's left is Tejas which will miraculously combine ground attack, trainer, interceptor, naval attack platform etc. all different roles according to Bharti brochure. I think Indians are definitely pushing Hasina hard on that front....
> 
> They can't find one good customer for their POS Tejas garbage, but we are there right next door. Money is there for the asking....
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo - right on the money, Chaiwala effect.....


BD air Force was supposed to buy MIG 35 according to some YouTube defense analysts of Bangladesh. Where are they?


----------



## UKBengali

Buddhistforlife said:


> BD air Force was supposed to buy MIG 35 according to some YouTube defense analysts of Bangladesh. Where are they?



BAF will not be buying ANY Russian fighters going forward due to US sanctions.
It will be a Western/Chinese mix.


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## Buddhistforlife

UKBengali said:


> BAF will not be buying ANY Russian fighters going forward due to US sanctions.
> It will be a Western/Chinese mix.






Is this false then?


----------



## UKBengali

Buddhistforlife said:


> Is this false then?



Just speculation to generate traffic and money.

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## CHACHA"G"

UKBengali said:


> BAF will not be buying ANY Russian fighters going forward due to US sanctions.
> It will be a Western/Chinese mix.


Then better option is ….. For single engine medium category bird Buy J-10 according to BD airforce needs and requirements ….. This bird is not expensive BD-Airforce can have 80+ of them in 10 years without any extraordinary money (funds) ….
And for heavy look towards west ……. Rafal and EFT ,,,,,,, expensive yes but doable and right bang for the money spent ,,,,, pick one of them and start buying ……. China don't have any heavy(twine engine on sale suitable for BD) 
@Avicenna

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## Avicenna

CHACHA"G" said:


> Then better option is ….. For single engine medium category bird Buy J-10 according to BD airforce needs and requirements ….. This bird is not expensive BD-Airforce can have 80+ of them in 10 years without any extraordinary money (funds) ….
> And for heavy look towards west ……. Rafal and EFT ,,,,,,, expensive yes but doable and right bang for the money spent ,,,,, pick one of them and start buying ……. China don't have any heavy(twine engine on sale suitable for BD)
> @Avicenna



I think there's alot of politics going on now which may be directing or restricting what BAF can or can not buy.

I also think there's alot if incompetence as well.

I think their WAS a plan to buy Russian birds as evidenced by the Yaks in prelude to this.

There were apparently rumors of a Chinese package including J-10.

But then the Rohingya issue exploded in late 2017 which changed the politics at play.

I think the West is making a play for BD and at the same time BD is attempting to diversify away from China.

I think the long term threat to Bangladesh (despite this current government's position) is India.

Myanmar is the short to medium term one.

So the sum of it all, is that the argument that BD doesnt need a strong armed forces is now null and void.

And Bangladesh isn't in some peaceful neighborhood where the armed forces can be neglected.

Politically BD needs China's favor.

It can not alienate India.

At the same time, BD has to protect its interests and have a balance to China.

The West had been attempting to bed India to hedge China.

And BD and India have close relations currently.

So its a clusterf&*k politically right now.

This is whats causing the delay in my opinion.

What is the correct combination?

I also think India is trying to push Tejas which of course I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I say buy J-10C or Block 3 JF-17 AND ex RAF Typhoon or try for F-16.

Diversify your sources. 

Have a leg in each camp (China/West). 
*
And most of all keep India on edge.*


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> I think there's alot of politics going on now which may be directing or restricting what BAF can or can not buy.
> 
> I also think there's alot if incompetence as well.
> 
> I think their WAS a plan to buy Russian birds as evidenced by the Yaks in prelude to this.
> 
> There were apparently rumors of a Chinese package including J-10.
> 
> But then the Rohingya issue exploded in late 2017 which changed the politics at play.
> 
> I think the West is making a play for BD and at the same time BD is attempting to diversify away from China.
> 
> I think the long term threat to Bangladesh (despite this current government's position) is India.
> 
> Myanmar is the short to medium term one.
> 
> So the sum of it all, is that the argument that BD doesnt need a strong armed forces is now null and void.
> 
> And Bangladesh isn't in some peaceful neighborhood where the armed forces can be neglected.
> 
> Politically BD needs China's favor.
> 
> It can not alienate India.
> 
> At the same time, BD has to protect its interests and have a balance to China.
> 
> The West had been attempting to bed India to hedge China.
> 
> And BD and India have close relations currently.
> 
> So its a clusterf&*k politically right now.
> 
> This is whats causing the delay in my opinion.
> 
> What is the correct combination?
> 
> I also think India is trying to push Tejas which of course I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.
> 
> I say buy J-10C or Block 3 JF-17 AND ex RAF Typhoon or try for F-16.
> 
> Diversify your sources.
> 
> Have a leg in each camp (China/West).
> *
> And most of all keep India on edge.*


I wouldn't be so sure. Myanmar remains a threat as long as the rohingyas are not getting out BD and the rohingyas are staying in BD for more several years to come, taking into consideration our foreign policy and continuous failures in carrying out the repatriation process.


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## Sine Nomine

Avicenna said:


> I think the long term threat to Bangladesh (despite this current government's position) is India.
> 
> Myanmar is the short to medium term one.


You buy weapons today,train over them and fight tomorrow.
If BD even sigs contract for anything today,it won't be an impact factor before 2030,citing training and numbers.

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## The Ronin

Well you can expect something from BAF chief's last two tours in Russia and China. Especially from Russia tour. The news indicates that. 







https://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/air-chief-returns-home-from-russia/

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## Sehnsucht

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> You buy weapons today,train over them and fight tomorrow.
> If BD even sigs contract for anything today,it won't be an impact factor before 2030,citing training and numbers.


We will have to start somewhere.


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## Sehnsucht

The Ronin said:


> Well you can expect something from BAF chief's last two tours in Russia and China. Especially from Russia tour. The news indicates that.
> 
> View attachment 580586
> 
> 
> https://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/air-chief-returns-home-from-russia/


It'll be a folly to procure aircrafts from Russia.

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## UKBengali

Petrichor said:


> It'll be a folly to procure aircrafts from Russia.



Not going to happen if only due to US sanctions.


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## Sehnsucht

UKBengali said:


> Not going to happen if only due to US sanctions.


Hopefully.Still, it's BAF we're talking about. They might just be foolish enough.


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## Avicenna

Buddhistforlife said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. Myanmar remains a threat as long as the rohingyas are not getting out BD and the rohingyas are staying in BD for more several years to come, taking into consideration our foreign policy and continuous failures in carrying out the repatriation process.



yes I agree with you.

As long as the present govt in Myanmar is there they will be a problem.

no good things can come from a country once ruled by something called SLORC.


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## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> yes I agree with you.
> 
> As long as the present govt in Myanmar is there they will be a problem.
> 
> no good things can come from a country once ruled by something called SLORC.


It's SPDC. State peace and development council. But I don't think it's the fault of the military government. If today Myanmar becomes a democratic country, still they won't take these rohingyas. The general people of Myanmar hates them like nothing. No government will take the risk of letting the rohingyas to live in Myanmar because it will go against the interest of the common Burmese people.

Even in social medias you can see the amount of hate the common Burmese people have for the rohingyas. So I wouldn't blame the government.


----------



## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> It's SPDC. State peace and development council. But I don't think it's the fault of the military government. If today Myanmar becomes a democratic country, still they won't take these rohingyas. The general people of Myanmar hates them like nothing. No government will take the risk of letting the rohingyas to live in Myanmar because it will go against the interest of the common Burmese people.
> 
> Even in social medias you can see the amount of hate the common Burmese people have for the rohingyas. So I wouldn't blame the government.


You're essentially defending a barbaric savage junta that has committed massacre, rape & other atrocities on it's own countrymen.Shame on you!
By your logic(?!) we can't blame the BJP & RSS for the lynching of Indian Muslims because many common Indians hate them.
404 logic not found.

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## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> You're essentially defending a barbaric savage junta that has committed massacre, rape & other atrocities on it's own countrymen.Shame on you!
> By your logic(?!) we can't blame the BJP & RSS for the lynching of Indian Muslims because many common Indians hate them.
> 404 logic not found.


A government is a reflection of its people. Surely common Indians are now more xenophobic than before that's why BJP is in power. Just last month a customer refused to take a food order from a Muslim delivery boy because of his faith and that customer was not a RSS member. Likewise many islamophobic incidents In India are perpetrated by common people and not RSS.

Like I told you. Explore the social medias and see for yourself.



Petrichor said:


> You're essentially defending a barbaric savage junta that has committed massacre, rape & other atrocities on it's own countrymen.Shame on you!
> By your logic(?!) we can't blame the BJP & RSS for the lynching of Indian Muslims because many common Indians hate them.
> 404 logic not found.







Please see this and judge.


----------



## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> A government is a reflection of its people. Surely common Indians are now more xenophobic than before that's why BJP is in power. Just last month a customer refused to take a food order from a Muslim delivery boy because of his faith and that customer was not a RSS member. Likewise many islamophobic incidents In India are perpetrated by common people and not RSS.
> 
> Like I told you. Explore the social medias and see for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please see this and judge.



Please do not use pretty words to deviate from the issue in hand.Whatever the common people thinks, is it not the duty of a government to ensure the protection & freedom of it's citizen?
And even if the common Burmese hate Rohingyas, does it give the military a right to rape, kill, torture & expell them?

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## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> Please do not use pretty words to deviate from the issue in hand.Whatever the common people thinks, is it not the duty of a government to ensure the protection & freedom of it's citizen?
> And even if the common Burmese hate Rohingyas, does it give the military a right to rape, kill, torture & expell them?


I have never said that the military has the right to commit genocide but blaming it entirely on the military government is not correct. I'm sure a civilian government or a elected government would have done the same too.

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## Michael Corleone

CHACHA"G" said:


> Then better option is ….. For single engine medium category bird Buy J-10 according to BD airforce needs and requirements ….. This bird is not expensive BD-Airforce can have 80+ of them in 10 years without any extraordinary money (funds) ….
> And for heavy look towards west ……. Rafal and EFT ,,,,,,, expensive yes but doable and right bang for the money spent ,,,,, pick one of them and start buying ……. China don't have any heavy(twine engine on sale suitable for BD)
> @Avicenna


That’s apparently how things will span out. AF chief went and visited j10 training and discussed modernization



Buddhistforlife said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. Myanmar remains a threat as long as the rohingyas are not getting out BD and the rohingyas are staying in BD for more several years to come, taking into consideration our foreign policy and continuous failures in carrying out the repatriation process.


Call for complete arms sales embargo has been made in Europe. Diplomatically if this is successful then they’re not a threat at all



The Ronin said:


> Well you can expect something from BAF chief's last two tours in Russia and China. Especially from Russia tour. The news indicates that.
> 
> View attachment 580586
> 
> 
> https://www.ispr.gov.bd/en/air-chief-returns-home-from-russia/


There’s two teams mig 35and j10 now who will win depends on who gives the better offer. Which I think is good.


----------



## Philip the Arab

IMO, JF-17 has more bang for its buck and seems much more easier to fly than the Mig-35, and J-10. In a war with Myanmar JF-17s could use SOWs like LS-6 against strategic targets and could probably hold their own against Mig-29s, and other JF-17s in A2A if purchased in significant numbers. Now, only a few MAF would actually be threats right away which are the airbase in Sittwe, the airbase in Myitkyina, and possibly Meiktila. The standoff range of the LS-6 PGB is about 60KM which is more than sufficient for taking out airbases and fleeing back to BD.

This is my idea for a strike on Sittwe airbase, fly from Cox's Bazar air base towards sea and turn towards Sinttwe at certain point, fly towards Sittwe and drop LS-6 and get back to base.






Doesn't really seem that hard of a mission skill wise






Also, cooperation with Pakistan is crucial to keep an edge over Myanmar... Pakistan can supply BD with much needed cruise missiles like Babur for example.

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> IMO, JF-17 has more bang for its buck and seems much more easier to fly than the Mig-35, and J-10. In a war with Myanmar JF-17s could use SOWs like LS-6 against strategic targets and could probably hold their own against Mig-29s, and other JF-17s in A2A if purchased in significant numbers. Now, only a few MAF would actually be threats right away which are the airbase in Sittwe, the airbase in Myitkyina, and possibly Meiktila. The standoff range of the LS-6 PGB is about 60KM which is more than sufficient for taking out airbases and fleeing back to BD.
> 
> This is my idea for a strike on Sittwe airbase, fly from Cox's Bazar air base towards sea and turn towards Sinttwe at certain point, fly towards Sittwe and drop LS-6 and get back to base.
> View attachment 580660
> 
> 
> Doesn't really seem that hard of a mission skill wise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, cooperation with Pakistan is crucial to keep an edge over Myanmar... Pakistan can supply BD with much needed cruise missiles like Babur for example.


100 percent sure there won’t be any war with Myanmar... because they can’t possibly win one and we can’t possibly afford one


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> 100 percent sure there won’t be any war with Myanmar... because they can’t possibly win one and we can’t possibly afford one


Are you 100% sure they can't win one?
Also, JF-17 could help in a potential conflict with India. Say for example, a Bangladeshi national does an attack in India and India does a strike on BD itself.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> 100 percent sure there won’t be any war with Myanmar... because they can’t possibly win one and we can’t possibly afford one



I wouldn’t be so sure about that.

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Are you 100% sure they can't win one?
> Also, JF-17 could help in a potential conflict with India. Say for example, a Bangladeshi national does an attack in India and India does a strike on BD itself.


I shouldn’t even be answering the first question
But to reiterate, the Russian and Chinese visits were for the fighters... whoever will provide an affordable package will win... I hear j10 is in the lead
Ex RAF typhoons will only be specialized air superiority roles. While the medium class (j10 or mig 35) will be the backbone of the air force. I’m really hoping for a news before the end of this year



Avicenna said:


> I wouldn’t be so sure about that.


At best there will be skirmishes not an all out blown war. For them to win, we would have to sit back and do nothing, keep all the boats docked so that they launch a Pearl Harbor style attack... and the air force well ....


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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> Are you 100% sure they can't win one?
> Also, JF-17 could help in a potential conflict with India. Say for example, a Bangladeshi national does an attack in India and India does a strike on BD itself.




Why get Jf-17 Block 3 when the superior J-10C is available to BD?

JF-17 Block 3 only makes sense if J-10C is not available


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> I shouldn’t even be answering the first question
> But to reiterate, the Russian and Chinese visits were for the fighters... whoever will provide an affordable package will win... I hear j10 is in the lead
> Ex RAF typhoons will only be specialized air superiority roles. While the medium class (j10 or mig 35) will be the backbone of the air force. I’m really hoping for a news before the end of this year


Weight classes you are talking about are completely different from JF-17...
Typhoon is 11 thousand KG
J-10 is 9.75 thousand KG
Mig-35 is 11 thousand KG
and JF-17 is 6.5 thousand KG or 1/2 of the weight of the Typhoon and Mig-35.
I think BAF should go for very light fighter for multirole duties (JF-17 Block 2) bought in high numbers (50-60) while Block 3 is in development and production is finished for Block II and try to get them built ASAP at Chinese facilities, and Pakistani facilities because I think they don't have current production right now and when Block III is finished get them upgraded to Block III standard.
They should also go for medium fighters (J-10C, or Mig-35, or Typhoon) in less numbers (30-40) for aerial superiority roles.
Heavy fighters are not needed because of the limited producers Su-30, and variants are pretty much the only option for BAF, because F-15s are pretty much impossible.



UKBengali said:


> Why get Jf-17 Block 3 when the superior J-10C is available to BD?
> 
> JF-17 Block 3 only makes sense if J-10C is not available


Different weight class as I told @Michael Corleone in the post above this one.

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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> Different weight class as I told @Michael Corleone in the post above this one.




BAF wants the BEST possible fighter to use against India.

J-10C can take on Rafale better than JF-17 Block 3 can.

Something like Gripen E can be the light-fighter analog to J-10C.

J-10C takes on India and Gripen E takes on Myanmar.


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## Philip the Arab

UKBengali said:


> BAF wants the BEST possible fighter to use against India.
> 
> J-10C can take on Rafale better than JF-17 Block 3 can.
> 
> Something like Gripen E can be the light-fighter analog to J-10C.
> 
> J-10C takes on India and Gripen E takes on Myanmar.


Will US allow Sweden to export Gripen to BD? And will they not embargo the Gripen in a war with India for example? Trust me, if Indian and Indian Americans can put enough pressure on Sweden and the US than BD will stop having spare parts, and weapons. Same can't be said about China or Pakistan.


Also, Block 3 is more than capable of taking on most of Myanmar's fighters except maybe Su-30 such as Mig-29, Block 2 JF-17, J-7, etc. It is also much cheaper to maintain because of the close proximity of both China, and Pakistan compared to Sweden.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> I think there's alot of politics going on now which may be directing or restricting what BAF can or can not buy.
> 
> I also think there's alot if incompetence as well.
> 
> I think their WAS a plan to buy Russian birds as evidenced by the Yaks in prelude to this.
> 
> There were apparently rumors of a Chinese package including J-10.
> 
> But then the Rohingya issue exploded in late 2017 which changed the politics at play.
> 
> I think the West is making a play for BD and at the same time BD is attempting to diversify away from China.
> 
> I think the long term threat to Bangladesh (despite this current government's position) is India.
> 
> Myanmar is the short to medium term one.
> 
> So the sum of it all, is that the argument that BD doesnt need a strong armed forces is now null and void.
> 
> And Bangladesh isn't in some peaceful neighborhood where the armed forces can be neglected.
> 
> Politically BD needs China's favor.
> 
> It can not alienate India.
> 
> At the same time, BD has to protect its interests and have a balance to China.
> 
> The West had been attempting to bed India to hedge China.
> 
> And BD and India have close relations currently.
> 
> So its a clusterf&*k politically right now.
> 
> This is whats causing the delay in my opinion.
> 
> What is the correct combination?
> 
> I also think India is trying to push Tejas which of course I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.
> 
> I say buy J-10C or Block 3 JF-17 AND ex RAF Typhoon or try for F-16.
> 
> Diversify your sources.
> 
> Have a leg in each camp (China/West).
> *
> And most of all keep India on edge.*


IMO any talk of multiple platforms for the BAF (if accurate) is a distraction and, as it had many times before, will not lead to procurement. The BAF needs to rally behind one good platform for a start, and induct it, and then think about the rest later.

If the goal is to go West, then focus on getting the JAS-39E/F Gripen with the GlobalEye AEW&C & ISTAR platform from Sweden.

Though ITAR's involved, I don't think Bangladesh will have any trouble getting approvals. And if the Bangladeshi economy is promising, then Sweden will extend EXIM line of credits to back the deal.

Though multiple platforms has merit, Bangladesh isn't anywhere near as precarious a situation as Pakistan or Turkey to worry about diversification. I doubt Sweden and Europe would embargo Bangladesh for getting into scuffs with Myanmar or India, so long as (with India anyways) it's defensive or responsive.

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## Philip the Arab

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO any talk of multiple platforms for the BAF (if accurate) is a distraction and, as it had many times before, will not lead to procurement. The BAF needs to rally behind one good platform for a start, and induct it, and then think about the rest later.
> 
> If the goal is to go West, then focus on getting the JAS-39E/F Gripen with the GlobalEye AEW&C & ISTAR platform from Sweden.
> 
> Though ITAR's involved, I don't think Bangladesh will have any trouble getting approvals. And if the Bangladeshi economy is promising, then Sweden will extend EXIM line of credits to back the deal.
> 
> Though multiple platforms has merit, Bangladesh isn't anywhere near as precarious a situation as Pakistan or Turkey to worry about diversification. I doubt Sweden and Europe would embargo Bangladesh for getting into scuffs with Myanmar or India, so long as (with India anyways) it's defensive or responsive.


Do you think Pakistan would let Bangladesh get JF-17 with Chinese approval of course? Having two platforms (J-10, and JF-17) from the same country with compatible weapons would simply supply lines and would probably be cheaper than buying the Gripen E (60 Million dollars per unit vs J-10C 40 million per unit and JF-17 Block III 32 million dollars per unit) and having to worry about supply lines in a potential conflict with India, or Myanmar.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Philip the Arab said:


> Do you think Pakistan would let Bangladesh get JF-17 with Chinese approval of course? Having two platforms (J-10, and JF-17) from the same country with compatible weapons would simply supply lines and would probably be cheaper than buying the Gripen E (60 Million dollars per unit vs J-10C 40 million per unit and JF-17 Block III 32 million dollars per unit) and having to worry about supply lines in a potential conflict with India, or Myanmar.


I think the PAF is willing to sell the JF-17 Block-III to the BAF, it's more of a decision on the end of the BAF AHQ. But I think the BAF AHQ is tilting towards a Western jet, and I think the Gripen E/F is the best package on that front.

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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO any talk of multiple platforms for the BAF (if accurate) is a distraction and, as it had many times before, will not lead to procurement. The BAF needs to rally behind one good platform for a start, and induct it, and then think about the rest later.
> 
> If the goal is to go West, then focus on getting the JAS-39E/F Gripen with the GlobalEye AEW&C & ISTAR platform from Sweden.
> 
> Though ITAR's involved, I don't think Bangladesh will have any trouble getting approvals. And if the Bangladeshi economy is promising, then Sweden will extend EXIM line of credits to back the deal.
> 
> Though multiple platforms has merit, Bangladesh isn't anywhere near as precarious a situation as Pakistan or Turkey to worry about diversification. I doubt Sweden and Europe would embargo Bangladesh for getting into scuffs with Myanmar or India, so long as (with India anyways) it's defensive or responsive.



It's an interesting situation if nothing else.

We DO know that official sources have made public their intent to induct a new fighter/fighters.

I would disagree with you about the precariousness of the BD situation.

Its certainly not as apparent or potentially "hot" as say a Pakistan or Turkey.

But BD does have its own problems in a geopolitical sense.

Its immediate regional powers for all intents and purposes support an antagonistic neighbor.

At the same time, BD has no REAL support in the world.

If BD-Myanmar ever went to war, politically BD would be isolated.

Lip service from "Islamic" countries and the West doesnt count.

At the same time, with this frenemy India, you have sweet words, but the reality is its a festering threat with the way the BJP government is doing things.

So what do you do if you are BD?

I've loved military aviation since I was a little kid but I've realized its actually the politics behind acquisition that are more important.

The real question is what is BD going to do politically.

The hardware it acquires will be reflective of that choice.

We at home can only watch.

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## Philip the Arab

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I think the PAF is willing to sell the JF-17 Block-III to the BAF, it's more of a decision on the end of the BAF AHQ. But I think the BAF AHQ is tilting towards a Western jet, and I think the Gripen E/F is the best package on that front.


Is Gripen US export controlled? Can US block sales because of key components like the Volvo engine based off F404?

I found this quote off of Wikipedia. Doesn't this mean export could in theory be blocked like Turkish T-129 to Pakistan?
General Electric produces 50% of the engine. Elements such as the fan/compressor discs and case, compressor spool, hubs, seals, and afterburner are manufactured in Sweden, final assembly also taking place there.


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> It's an interesting situation if nothing else.
> 
> We DO know that official sources have made public their intent to induct a new fighter/fighters.
> 
> I would disagree with you about the precariousness of the BD situation.
> 
> Its certainly not as apparent or potentially "hot" as say a Pakistan or Turkey.
> 
> But BD does have its own problems in a geopolitical sense.
> 
> Its immediate regional powers for all intents and purposes support an antagonistic neighbor.
> 
> At the same time, BD has no REAL support in the world.
> 
> If BD-Myanmar ever went to war, politically BD would be isolated.
> 
> Lip service from "Islamic" countries and the West doesnt count.
> 
> At the same time, with this frenemy India, you have sweet words, but the reality is its a festering threat with the way the BJP government is doing things.
> 
> So what do you do if you are BD?
> 
> I've loved military aviation since I was a little kid but I've realized its actually the politics behind acquisition that are more important.
> 
> The real question is what is BD going to do politically.
> 
> The hardware it acquires will be reflective of that choice.
> 
> We at home can only watch.


I agree to an extent, but compared to Pakistan, I'd say the perception of BD is a lot better all around, especially in Europe. You're going to get more warmth in the cold than say Turkey or Pakistan, especially Pakistan.

That said, I believe the likes of Bangladesh, Pakistan, Turkey, etc, should make an effort to avoid 'alignment' with the US, China or Russia.

I'd rather independent and firm foreign policy with an emphasis on bilateral ties with 'peer states' like Ukraine, South Africa, Brazil, Taiwan, and others who understand what being thrown under the bus by bigger powers or fed false promises means.

Each of these countries (i.e., Ukraine, South Africa, Brazil, Taiwan, Turkey, BD, and Pakistan) has a vested interest in getting better and strengthening their position in shaky/hostile environments. Plus, working with them more means we work less with Russia, China and US, which might help us clear our conscience a bit too.



Philip the Arab said:


> Is Gripen US export controlled? Can US block sales because of key components like the Volvo engine based off F404?
> 
> I found this quote off of Wikipedia. Doesn't this mean export could in theory be blocked like Turkish T-129 to Pakistan?
> General Electric produces 50% of the engine. Elements such as the fan/compressor discs and case, compressor spool, hubs, seals, and afterburner are manufactured in Sweden, final assembly also taking place there.


Yep. The GE F404/F414 fall under ITAR, so the US can block them. Ditto for the CTS800 in the T129. That's why the Pakistani T129 deal hit of a roadblock, though TAI is working on alternative engines (e.g., speaking to Safran Group, and working on the indigenous TS1400).

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2433048290077016







Petrichor said:


> It'll be a folly to procure aircrafts from Russia.



If you meant fighter jet, for maritime strike role you don't have any better alternative. And if Turkey, India, Indonesia, Egypt can give middle finger to USA's global fascism and find ways to buy Russian product, we can too. Where will other countries go who can't buy expensive European or strings attached USA toys? No one should give a single damn about this unfair CAATSA. If there's will, there's a way. 



Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Yep. The GE F404/F414 fall under ITAR, so the US can block them. Ditto for the CTS800 in the T129. That's why the Pakistani T129 deal hit of a roadblock, though TAI is working on alternative engines (e.g., speaking to Safran Group, and working on the indigenous TS1400).



Isn't Eurojet EJ200 an option? Do you think it's possible to get a Gripen without any american component?


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Weight classes you are talking about are completely different from JF-17...
> Typhoon is 11 thousand KG
> J-10 is 9.75 thousand KG
> Mig-35 is 11 thousand KG
> and JF-17 is 6.5 thousand KG or 1/2 of the weight of the Typhoon and Mig-35.
> I think BAF should go for very light fighter for multirole duties (JF-17 Block 2) bought in high numbers (50-60) while Block 3 is in development and production is finished for Block II and try to get them built ASAP at Chinese facilities, and Pakistani facilities because I think they don't have current production right now and when Block III is finished get them upgraded to Block III standard.
> They should also go for medium fighters (J-10C, or Mig-35, or Typhoon) in less numbers (30-40) for aerial superiority roles.
> Heavy fighters are not needed because of the limited producers Su-30, and variants are pretty much the only option for BAF, because F-15s are pretty much impossible.
> 
> 
> Different weight class as I told @Michael Corleone in the post above this one.


It doesn’t meet bd’s requirements.

Guys good news to be announced, stay tuned


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> It doesn’t meet bd’s requirements.



Are you referring to JF-17 not meeting BAF requirements?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Are you referring to JF-17 not meeting BAF requirements?


Yes sir, especially in range, payload and thrust/ vmax department.
Anyways you’ll get some good news soon.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Yes sir, especially in range, payload and thrust/ vmax department.
> Anyways you’ll get some good news soon.



Hopefully, we get some good news soon.

But for replacing F-7 variants, JF-17 is the PERFECT choice.

I don't have to mention the obvious that the PAF uses it.

But for the qualities of the platform itself, its cheap, sanction-free, will field an AESA radar, fields SD-10 if not PL-15 in the furture, has a host of anti surface and anti ship munitions and the engine shares commonality with the RD-33 in the Mig-29s for familiarity's sake.






(the ability to employ the above would be a MAJOR upgrade for BAF capabilities)

That's alot of pros for it.

There are cons of course, its short legged, payload and hardpoint limitations, and Myanmar flies it.

I know I am missing many from both categories.

But the point is, introducing Block 3 JF-17 to replace the -MB, -BG, and -BGI makes complete sense.

Now if BAF wants to bring in something better, well then lets get on with it.

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## loanranger

Avicenna said:


> Are you referring to JF-17 not meeting BAF requirements?


JF-17 doesn't meet Bangladesh's ego requirements.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Hopefully, we get some good news soon.
> 
> But for replacing F-7 variants, JF-17 is the PERFECT choice.
> 
> I don't have to mention the obvious that the PAF uses it.
> 
> But for the qualities of the platform itself, its cheap, sanction-free, will field an AESA radar, fields SD-10 if not PL-15 in the furture, has a host of anti surface and anti ship munitions and the engine shares commonality with the RD-33 in the Mig-29s for familiarity's sake.
> 
> View attachment 580788
> 
> (the ability to employ the above would be a MAJOR upgrade for BAF capabilities)
> 
> That's alot of pros for it.
> 
> There are cons of course, its short legged, payload and hardpoint limitations, and Myanmar flies it.
> 
> I know I am missing many from both categories.
> 
> But the point is, introducing Block 3 JF-17 to replace the -MB, -BG, and -BGI makes complete sense.
> 
> Now if BAF wants to bring in something better, well then lets get on with it.


I here that mig 29 is to be sent to reserve? Possibly retired altogether? I guess they’ll end up using them for training. No upgrades planned


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> I here that mig 29 is to be sent to reserve? Possibly retired altogether? I guess they’ll end up using them for training. No upgrades planned


Why not? Upgrade could make them deadly without having to get rid of relatively new airframes (made in late 90s?)


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Why not? Upgrade could make them deadly without having to get rid of relatively new airframes (made in late 90s?)


Yeah but multiple tenders were issued with no takers except an Indian firm, plus Russia wants commitment to mig 35 so they’re to go

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> I here that mig 29 is to be sent to reserve? Possibly retired altogether? I guess they’ll end up using them for training. No upgrades planned



Awesome.

Get rid of them.

They were bought for like what 125 million total USD back in 1999?

Not a bad deal.

But time to move on.

The only way upgrading them makes sense is if BAF chooses Mig-35.

Hopefully that isnt the case.

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## mb444

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I agree to an extent, but compared to Pakistan, I'd say the perception of BD is a lot better all around, especially in Europe. You're going to get more warmth in the cold than say Turkey or Pakistan, especially Pakistan.
> 
> That said, I believe the likes of Bangladesh, Pakistan, Turkey, etc, should make an effort to avoid 'alignment' with the US, China or Russia.
> 
> I'd rather independent and firm foreign policy with an emphasis on bilateral ties with 'peer states' like Ukraine, South Africa, Brazil, Taiwan, and others who understand what being thrown under the bus by bigger powers or fed false promises means.
> 
> Each of these countries (i.e., Ukraine, South Africa, Brazil, Taiwan, Turkey, BD, and Pakistan) has a vested interest in getting better and strengthening their position in shaky/hostile environments. Plus, working with them more means we work less with Russia, China and US, which might help us clear our conscience a bit too.
> 
> 
> Yep. The GE F404/F414 fall under ITAR, so the US can block them. Ditto for the CTS800 in the T129. That's why the Pakistani T129 deal hit of a roadblock, though TAI is working on alternative engines (e.g., speaking to Safran Group, and working on the indigenous TS1400).





Michael Corleone said:


> Yeah but multiple tenders were issued with no takers except an Indian firm, plus Russia wants commitment to mig 35 so they’re to go




If BAF ever actually makes a decision and there is clear philosophy all these games by russians will cease immediately....

What is the cause of renewed optimism? What have you heard. I would be disappointed with everything except EFT. Its a no brainer.... EFT vs Rafale ..... defensive parity achieved with minimal chance of embargo from UK in times of war.


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## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> If BAF ever actually makes a decision and there is clear philosophy all these games by russians will cease immediately....
> 
> What is the cause of renewed optimism? What have you heard. I would be disappointed with everything except EFT. Its a no brainer.... EFT vs Rafale ..... defensive parity achieved with minimal chance of embargo from UK in times of war.


India will be inducting Tejas in bases near eastern border of BD (Whatever that name is) and JF-17 Block 3 should be procured for a plane that is overkill for EFT. JF-17 is truly a multirole plane that can be used for strike, and as SOW carrier while EFT is used for air superiority against Su-30 and Rafale.


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> If BAF ever actually makes a decision and there is clear philosophy all these games by russians will cease immediately....
> 
> What is the cause of renewed optimism? What have you heard. I would be disappointed with everything except EFT. Its a no brainer.... EFT vs Rafale ..... defensive parity achieved with minimal chance of embargo from UK in times of war.


You’ll be surprised and glad, I can’t tell for now



Philip the Arab said:


> India will be inducting Tejas in bases near eastern border of BD (Whatever that name is) and JF-17 Block 3 should be procured for a plane that is overkill for EFT. JF-17 is truly a multirole plane that can be used for strike, and as SOW carrier while EFT is used for air superiority against Su-30 and Rafale.


Rafale will also be deployed in the eastern bases

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> You’ll be surprised and glad, I can’t tell for now
> 
> 
> Rafale will also be deployed in the eastern bases


EFT can take on Su-30MKI, and Rafale while JF-17 takes on Tejas and any other Indian aircraft.

When will you tell us this secret good news?


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> EFT can take on Su-30MKI, and Rafale while JF-17 takes on Tejas and any other Indian aircraft.
> 
> When will you tell us this secret good news?


When the cat will be out of bag I wouldn’t even have to say... but recent visits to UK and China on modernization specific topic should help you guess

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> But for *replacing F-7 *variants, JF-17 is the PERFECT choice.


Will you guys stop the word *replacing F-7 *when IAF and PSAF both have Mig-21 its predecessor? Purchasing a new category of plane does not necessarily mean replacing the older usable ones. BD is not a rich country to afford that.


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> Will you guys stop the word *replacing F-7 *when IAF and PSAF both have Mig-21 its predecessor? Purchasing a new category of plane does not necessarily mean replacing the older usable ones. BD is not a rich country to afford that.



What?

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## Philip the Arab

bluesky said:


> Will you guys stop the word *replacing F-7 *when IAF and PSAF both have Mig-21 its predecessor? Purchasing a new category of plane does not necessarily mean replacing the older usable ones. BD is not a rich country to afford that.


BD's economy is growing at a high % rate. JF-17 is better than any Mig-21 variant in service now because it is a brand new airframe, with many hours left on plane compared to F-7.



Avicenna said:


> What?


JF-17 could even work at destroying Myanmar, and Indian airbases and strategic targets with C-802AKG land attack cruise missile with terminal TV guidance.

At final 10km journey camera turns on which allows precise targeting.





230 km launched from border of BD can hit these targets.


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## Sehnsucht

JF-17 block 3 will be perfect as BAF workhorse if we can't get Gripen or J-10 C.
It's cheap, one of the most capable 4th generation fighters with AESA, ability to use various kinds of AShM,ASM, SOW etc etc.Also, did I mention cheap? Because it's cheap.Which will allow BAF to field about 6 squadron of these fighters no problem.
We can get a few squadron of highly capable jets like EFT to act as the tip of the spear.
Can any of the more knowledgable members here post the specifications of JF-17 Block 3? TIA.

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## Philip the Arab

Petrichor said:


> JF-17 block 3 will be perfect as BAF workhorse if we can't get Gripen or J-10 C.
> It's cheap, one of the most capable 4th generation fighters with AESA, ability to use various kinds of AShM,ASM, SOW etc etc.Also, did I mention cheap? Because it's cheap.Which will allow BAF to field about 6 squadron of these fighters no problem.
> We can get a few squadron of highly capable jets like EFT to act as the tip of the spear.
> Can any of the more knowledgable members here post the specifications of JF-17 Block 3? TIA.


I can give you AESA details but true knowledge is scarce and confidential about new features of Block III. AESA will be able to track 15 targets and engage 4 and might even get PL-15 the Chinese equivalent of Meteor and be able to take down any Indian aircraft very easily. It isn't confirmed if India is even getting Meteor yet.
range detection of 170km for a 3 m2 target and 200km for 5 m2. Su-30MKIs RCS is probably 5m2 or higher so detection will be no challenge not factoring in ECCM of Su-30MKI.

Long missile is reportedly PL-15





*Type* Very long range air-to-air missile
*Place of origin* People's Republic of China.
*Production history
Manufacturer* 607 (Air-to-Air Missile Research Institute)[1][2]
*Specifications
Engine* Pulsed solid-propellant rocket[2]
*Operational
range*
300+ km or 150 km[3]
*Speed* Mach 4
*Launch
platform*
Aircraft

Also, as I said before J-10 is in a different weight class than JF-17 completely and is roughly 1/3 heavier. J-10 is light-medium fighter and JF-17 is very light weight fighter.

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> I can give you AESA details but true knowledge is scarce and confidential about new features of Block III. AESA will be able to track 15 targets and engage 4 and might even get PL-15 the Chinese equivalent of Meteor and be able to take down any Indian aircraft very easily. It isn't confirmed if India is even getting Meteor yet.
> range detection of 170km for a 3 m2 target and 200km for 5 m2. Su-30MKIs RCS is probably 5m2 or higher so detection will be no challenge not factoring in ECCM of Su-30MKI.
> 
> Long missile is reportedly PL-15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Type* Very long range air-to-air missile
> *Place of origin* People's Republic of China.
> *Production history
> Manufacturer* 607 (Air-to-Air Missile Research Institute)[1][2]
> *Specifications
> Engine* Pulsed solid-propellant rocket[2]
> *Operational
> range*
> 300+ km or 150 km[3]
> *Speed* Mach 4
> *Launch
> platform*
> Aircraft
> 
> Also, as I said before J-10 is in a different weight class than JF-17 completely and is roughly 1/3 heavier. J-10 is light-medium fighter and JF-17 is very light weight fighter.


Very secretive about this block. Didn’t see a prototype yet


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> BAF wants the BEST possible fighter to use against India.
> 
> J-10C can take on Rafale better than JF-17 Block 3 can.
> 
> Something like Gripen E can be the light-fighter analog to J-10C.
> 
> J-10C takes on India and Gripen E takes on Myanmar.



Gripen E with Meteor and Global Eye can take on any aircraft in IAF inventory.


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## Philip the Arab

Bengal71 said:


> Gripen E with Meteor and Global Eye can take on any aircraft in IAF inventory.


Will BD be allowed Meteor? I wasn't aware that India was getting Meteor for Rafale even.



Michael Corleone said:


> Very secretive about this block. Didn’t see a prototype yet


They are working hard on it but we already know which AESA radar it is using, and obvious facts like composites, increased weapons capabilities. Those two videos above are pretty true.

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## Bengal71

Philip the Arab said:


> Will BD be allowed Meteor? I wasn't aware that India was getting Meteor for Rafale even.



I don't know. But without meteor no point buying gripen or typhoon.


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## Philip the Arab

Bengal71 said:


> I don't know. But without meteor no point buying gripen or typhoon.


JF-17 Block 3 may be getting Chinese version of Meteor called PL-15. 150KM+ range.


The long white missile is apparently PL-15s but it could be fake. AESA radar will have very high detection and tracking range and is more than capable of engaging Su-30MKI, and Rafale. This is testbed probably and not actual JF-17 Block 3. PL-15 itself has AESA radar on it, which is better than Meteor without a AESA.









Better image of 4 inside J-20.


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## Bengal71

Philip the Arab said:


> JF-17 Block 3 may be getting Chinese version of Meteor called PL-15. 150KM+ range.
> 
> 
> The long white missile is apparently PL-15s but it could be fake. AESA radar will have very high detection and tracking range and is more than capable of engaging Su-30MKI, and Rafale. This is testbed probably and not actual JF-17 Block 3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better image of 4 inside J-20.



Pakistan is an unreliable supplier and generally considered backstabbers in BD. There are other alternatives that are as good or superior.


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## Philip the Arab

Bengal71 said:


> Pakistan is an unreliable supplier and generally considered backstabbers in BD. There are other alternatives that are as good or superior.


Why would Pakistan be involved fully? China could do most of the work on aircraft and supply spare parts and wouldn't put sanctions necessarily. You think West is any better? In a conflict with India they will be pressured to stop supplying spare parts, and weapons to BD or risk cutting economic ties.


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## Bengal71

Philip the Arab said:


> Why would Pakistan be involved fully? China could do most of the work on aircraft and supply spare parts and wouldn't put sanctions necessarily. You think West is any better? In a conflict with India they will be pressured to stop supplying spare parts, and weapons to BD or risk cutting economic ties.



JF-17 does not fit the requirements of BAF mainly because of political reasons. Procuring this aircraft will be a total blunder. JF-17 has all major parts supplied by China and Russia. 

In a conflict with Burma that aircraft does not work because 

1. Pakistan already supplied JF-17 to Burma.
2. In a conflict with Burma the Chinese will be on the Burmese side and Pakistan will be under huge pressure from the Chinese not to supply BD and Pakistan will bow down to Chinese pressure. Not only that, in national security affairs of BD, Pakistan can not be trusted. 

Only scenario when JF-17 will continue to receive support and spares is in a conflict with India. Both China and Pakistan will happily supply BD. But for India a superior aircraft is needed and J-10 fits the bill for that.

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## Nike

Bengal71 said:


> JF-17 does not fit the requirements of BAF mainly because of political reasons. Procuring this aircraft will be a total blunder. JF-17 has all major parts supplied by China and Russia.
> 
> In a conflict with Burma that aircraft does not work because
> 
> 1. Pakistan already supplied JF-17 to Burma.
> 2. In a conflict with Burma the Chinese will be on the Burmese side and Pakistan will be under huge pressure from the Chinese not to supply BD and Pakistan will bow down to Chinese pressure. Not only that, in national security affairs of BD, Pakistan can not be trusted.
> 
> Only scenario when JF-17 will continue to receive support and spares is in a conflict with India. Both China and Pakistan will happily supply BD. But for India a superior aircraft is needed and J-10 fits the bill for that.



To retain Air Superiority over Burma you need a larger airforce compared to Burma, something you are very lacking. 32 Mig 29, 16 JF17 and 6 Su 30 is not a trivial forces for an Airforce like Bangladesh whose backbone still rested on J7/F7 bgb and meager 8 Mig 29. 

For your obsession over India, let forget it.

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## Philip the Arab

Nike said:


> To retain Air Superiority over Burma you need a larger airforce compared to Burma, something you are very lacking. 32 Mig 29, 16 JF17 and 6 Su 30 is not a trivial forces for an Airforce like Bangladesh whose backbone still rested on J7/F7 bgb and meager 8 Mig 29.
> 
> For your obsession over India, let forget it.


Wouldn't China support Myanmar over BD in conflict for whatever reason? JF-17s would be sanctioned if BD bought them.

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## Nike

Philip the Arab said:


> Wouldn't China support Myanmar over BD in conflict for whatever reason? JF-17s would be sanctioned if BD bought them.



Thats why they are in dilemma, to bought new fighter they must considering many thing including diplomacy, prices and support spare parts . They are not that close with western power, they are one of the largest buyer of Chinese made weapons but China is close with Myanmar, their relationship with Russia is neutral at most if not warm but Russia is still the closest India ally.

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## Philip the Arab

Nike said:


> Thats why they are in dilemma, to bought new fighter they must considering many thing including diplomacy, prices and support spare parts . They are not that close with western power, they are one of the largest buyer of Chinese made weapons but China is close with Myanmar, their relationship with Russia is neutral at most if not warm but Russia is still the closest India ally.


Dilemma for sure... China would support BD in war with India but not with Myanmar and West would support BD in war with Myanmar but not with India.

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## Haris Ali2140

Bengal71 said:


> JF-17 does not fit the requirements of BAF mainly because of political reasons. Procuring this aircraft will be a total blunder. JF-17 has all major parts supplied by China and Russia.
> 
> In a conflict with Burma that aircraft does not work because
> 
> 1. Pakistan already supplied JF-17 to Burma.
> 2. In a conflict with Burma the Chinese will be on the Burmese side and Pakistan will be under huge pressure from the Chinese not to supply BD and Pakistan will bow down to Chinese pressure. Not only that, in national security affairs of BD, Pakistan can not be trusted.
> 
> Only scenario when JF-17 will continue to receive support and spares is in a conflict with India. Both China and Pakistan will happily supply BD. But for India a superior aircraft is needed and J-10 fits the bill for that.


What's the issue with Myanmar in short???


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## ghost250

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Avicenna

shourov323 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



What did he say?

I don't understand proper Bangla.


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> What did he say?
> 
> I don't understand proper Bangla.



Looks like BAF will sign the contract for MRCA soon. They are also working on to procure SAM, *LRAD radar*, transport and helicopter.

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## ghost250

Avicenna said:


> What did he say?
> 
> I don't understand proper Bangla.


bangladesh airforce is in process to induct 4th generation fighter aircraft ,air defence radar,chopper,transport aircraft and missiles..i think, mrsam he meant there..

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Why would Pakistan be involved fully? China could do most of the work on aircraft and supply spare parts and wouldn't put sanctions necessarily. You think West is any better? In a conflict with India they will be pressured to stop supplying spare parts, and weapons to BD or risk cutting economic ties.


Tbh with Burma getting jf17 and india having sukhoi 30 already... I don’t see us getting any of the jets


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2435376316510880

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> What did he say?
> 
> I don't understand proper Bangla.



He said they are working on procuring new fighters. Helios and logistics aircraft procurements are being finalised and radar and sam related work continues. He expects a step up in BAF capability.

To be perfectly honest heard the same things from many a BAF chief. Hopefully this materialises soon so that I can heap praise commensurate with the scorn i have poured on BAF utter failure to date.

Long time coming. I am hoping for the best EFT and F16 combo. BD needs to believe and just go western and both myanmer and india effectively neutralised. BD does not have an aggressive posture and defensively if forced to fight I am sure we can carry western opinion with us.

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## SABRE

Michael Corleone said:


> Yes sir, especially in range, payload and thrust/ vmax department.
> Anyways you’ll get some good news soon.



Just curious, where exactly does BD/BAF plan to strike that the JF-17 does not fulfill its range requirements?

Pardon me, and I am not condescending, but I have been hearing the sentence "you'll get some good news soon" & names like J-10, Su-30, Su-35, and Eurofighter for past 13 to 15 years. Someone implied here that news pertaining to new aircraft would come in a month's time, that was several months ago. So far nothing.

Let me confess that even as a researcher/analyst I possess meager knowledge on BD's military affairs. However, since I have been periodically dropping in on this topic (this includes discussion on other past forums/websites) since the past 13-15 years I have come to invest some interest in the subject [this is also perhaps because I have come to like and admire Bangali/Bangladeshi people over the years ... excluding BD cricket fans (sarcasm)]. But basing my opinion on things as they appear on the surface, I would say BAF has no need for long-range or medium to heavy combat aircraft like Sukhois and Typhoons. I know you guys want something not just with a *punch* but also *prestige*, but the most resourceful thing to do is to buy an aircraft that can be purchased in numbers yet provides good capability and is operationally viable and economical. You don't need an aircraft sitting most of its time in a hangar for maintenance or because the cost of operation exceeds the allocated budget. This doesn't necessarily mean buying JF-17 but BAF needs to look for something along the line. The worst thing, however, would be if Tejas is shoved down BD/BAF's throat, which is not an unlikely scenario.



Nike said:


> To retain Air Superiority over Burma you need a larger airforce compared to Burma, something you are very lacking. 32 Mig 29, 16 JF17 and 6 Su 30 is not a trivial forces for an Airforce like Bangladesh whose backbone still rested on J7/F7 bgb and meager 8 Mig 29.
> 
> For your obsession over India, let forget it.



Indeed, BD requires a larger but economical air force not a larger but costly aircraft. Building an air force with the ability to pose a challenge to IAF is beyond BD's means and will remain so for a long time to come. Even if BAF acquires jets like J-10, Su-35, EFT, or Rafale they would be overwhelmed in a matter of hours by IAF since they won't be able to acquire them enough numbers.

Despite my dislike for Hasina, I must say she has done well to mend ties with India, even if it has led her and BD to become appeaser to the country. If things go along as they are and mutual economic and political dependency (but mostly BD dependent on India) is achieved the likelihood of an armed conflict between the two countries on the state-to-state level would diminish. In fact, it is almost non-existent presently. Thus, BD/BAF are free to focus on Myanmar. 

If not JF-17 then Gripen is an idol platform. But I would go for ~36 used F-16s or Mirage-2000s with BVR capability and light to medium AEW&CS. Around 10 to 12 J-10C can then be added to further boost the airpower. This way BAF would remain formidable as well as diverse without complete dependence on a single country.

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## Michael Corleone

SABRE said:


> Just curious, where exactly does BD/BAF plan to strike that the JF-17 does not fulfill its range requirements?
> 
> Pardon me, and I am not condescending, but I have been hearing the sentence "you'll get some good news soon" & names like J-10, Su-30, Su-35, and Eurofighter for past 13 to 15 years. Someone implied here that news pertaining to new aircraft would come in a month's time, that was several months ago. So far nothing.
> 
> Let me confess that even as a researcher/analyst I possess meager knowledge on BD's military affairs. However, since I have been periodically dropping in on this topic (this includes discussion on other past forums/websites) since the past 13-15 years I have come to invest some interest in the subject [this is also perhaps because I have come to like and admire Bangali/Bangladeshi people over the years ... excluding BD cricket fans (sarcasm)]. But basing my opinion on things as they appear on the surface, I would say BAF has no need for long-range or medium to heavy combat aircraft like Sukhois and Typhoons. I know you guys want something not just with a *punch* but also *prestige*, but the most resourceful thing to do is to buy an aircraft that can be purchased in numbers yet provides good capability and is operationally viable and economical. You don't need an aircraft sitting most of its time in a hangar for maintenance or because the cost of operation exceeds the allocated budget. This doesn't necessarily mean buying JF-17 but BAF needs to look for something along the line. The worst thing, however, would be if Tejas is shoved down BD/BAF's throat, which is not an unlikely scenario.


Bd has released their spec requirements for the heavy MRCA years ago but with Russians hiking up the price, (blame that on incompetent fools in our AF) With no other alternative allowed to compete in tender process and conditions to procure mig 35 to get access to sukhois... we were firm on with getting j10... and that was going well too until China sided with Burmese for rohyngas and vetoed Myanmar out... so with effectively no real friends we had to sit with bangles on our hands... other procurements didn’t stop however and were going according to plan, c130 were inducted and deal made with the British and then came formal offer to supply MRCA from British high commissioner, I was very much skeptical, still am somewhat because t tell you the truth, I’m not he incompetent fucks that’s running the show... I’ve heard everything has been negotiated and now formal deal signing is left... as for medium MRCA, the chief went to MAKS this year and got the final Russian offer, went to China recently and got the Chinese offer and I’m not sure which one they’ll get after because the old mig pilots want the 35 and the their halves want j10... my bet is we will settle with j10 at the end as the backbone of the fleet. 
Today AF chief announced procurement of fighter jets is ongoing with radars and air defense already being setup. He announced soon the whole air force will be comprised of completely 4th gen aircrafts
So by his wording. I’m optimistic... the dude isn’t a lazy ****... he finished the training course on sukhoi 30 in Russia with a record time 
What matters most is final approval, no govt. interference and shit ton of budget...
Also there is no way Tejas will ever get inducted. First their AF CHIEF came in and asked to use the loan money to buy Indian defense products... (I guess tejas) but then when that didn’t happen the navy chief came... failed and it’s been repeated again twice this year already

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## CHACHA"G"

After reading BD members ,,,,,,,,,,

China cannot be trusted , And Chines Jets isn't worth it
Pakistan cannot be trusted , And Pakistani Jet isn't good enough
Russia cannot be trusted and Russian Jets wont work against endia and Myanmar 
 Gripen is expensive and west can sanction it
 US wont going to sell F-16 , even if US will F-16s are expensive and sanctions pro
 EFT will work but expensive and again Sanctions can also damage life support 
What the hell man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys want then ????????

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## Philip the Arab

CHACHA"G" said:


> After reading BD members ,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> China cannot be trusted , And Chines Jets isn't worth it
> Pakistan cannot be trusted , And Pakistani Jet isn't good enough
> Russia cannot be trusted and Russian Jets wont work against endia and Myanmar
> Gripen is expensive and west can sanction it
> US wont going to sell F-16 , even if US will F-16s are expensive and sanctions pro
> EFT will work but expensive and again Sanctions can also damage life support
> What the hell man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys want then ????????


What do you propose?


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## Avicenna

CHACHA"G" said:


> After reading BD members ,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> China cannot be trusted , And Chines Jets isn't worth it
> Pakistan cannot be trusted , And Pakistani Jet isn't good enough
> Russia cannot be trusted and Russian Jets wont work against endia and Myanmar
> Gripen is expensive and west can sanction it
> US wont going to sell F-16 , even if US will F-16s are expensive and sanctions pro
> EFT will work but expensive and again Sanctions can also damage life support
> What the hell man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys want then ????????



The problem with Muslim countries is that due to our lack of capability in sensitive tech, we are ALL dependent on outside countries for defense hardware.

As to what BAF will get, who knows man.


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## CHACHA"G"

Philip the Arab said:


> What do you propose?


As you said and as we all know there are basically 3 types of birds , light , medium and heavy .. BD-AF already have Yak-130 (advance lift trainer ) so they don't need another light bird JF-17 , they just have to increase numbers of Yak-130 ,,,,, 
For Medium category , they think they cannot trust China , fair enough , but going for gripen is as dangerous as going for China's J-10 , simply because very few operators of Gripen so very less chances of Sp-Parts if sanctioned ,,, better option is F-16s simply because of Sp-Parts (so many countries using F-16s and Keep in mind Turkey) ..
Foe heavy they can chose any from EFT , Rafale , SU-35 (all three have their own advantages and dis-advantages and BD have to deal with them) .

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## Philip the Arab

CHACHA"G" said:


> As you said and as we all know there are basically 3 types of birds , light , medium and heavy .. BD-AF already have Yak-130 (advance lift trainer ) so they don't need another light bird JF-17 , they just have to increase numbers of Yak-130 ,,,,,
> For Medium category , they think they cannot trust China , fair enough , but going for gripen is as dangerous as going for China's J-10 , simply because very few operators of Gripen so very less chances of Sp-Parts if sanctioned ,,, better option is F-16s simply because of Sp-Parts (so many countries using F-16s and Keep in mind Turkey) ..
> Foe heavy they can chose any from EFT , Rafale , SU-35 (all three have their own advantages and dis-advantages and BD have to deal with them) .


EFT, Rafale, and J-10 (9-11 thousand KG) are all in the same weight class... Only option for heavy fighter is Su-30, and Su-35(17 thousand KG)
YAK-130 has almost no A2A ability and is maybe good for simple bombing missions but nothing else. It's a great trainer but not so much a good fighter. Gripen, or JF-17 is only option for true lightweight multirole plane.

IMO, if buying JF-17s from Pakistan will allow purchase of Babur, and other Pakistani weapons it would be worth it. Imagine BD buying 100 Babur missiles and having the ability to hit most of Myanmar and almost all strategic Indian targets near BD. Not saying it would happen but I'm not saying its impossible either because trust has to be built in for a JF-17 purchase.

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## The Ronin

@Philip give it a rest. BAF won't buy JF-17.

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## Philip the Arab

The Ronin said:


> @Philip give it a rest. BAF won't buy JF-17.


What will they buy? IMO all planes are prone to sanctions in wars with either India or Myanmar. Even EFT may be prone to sanctions if used against India because India is in the commonwealth.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> What will they buy? IMO all planes are prone to sanctions in wars with either India or Myanmar. Even EFT may be prone to sanctions if used against India because India is in the commonwealth.


So is Bangladesh, sanctions aren’t placed if you’re the defender... it’s placed if you’re the aggressor


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## Bengal71

Philip the Arab said:


> EFT, Rafale, and J-10 (9-11 thousand KG) are all in the same weight class... Only option for heavy fighter is Su-30, and Su-35(17 thousand KG)
> YAK-130 has almost no A2A ability and is maybe good for simple bombing missions but nothing else. It's a great trainer but not so much a good fighter. Gripen, or JF-17 is only option for true lightweight multirole plane.
> 
> IMO, if buying JF-17s from Pakistan will allow purchase of Babur, and other Pakistani weapons it would be worth it. Imagine BD buying 100 Babur missiles and having the ability to hit most of Myanmar and almost all strategic Indian targets near BD. Not saying it would happen but I'm not saying its impossible either because trust has to be built in for a JF-17 purchase.
> 
> View attachment 581031



You seem to be mentioning all weapons systems. Who told you we want Babur? If a Babur type of missile is required, it can be sourced from other sources. Iranian Soumar, Quds-1, Hoveizeh cruise missiles can be acquired.



CHACHA"G" said:


> After reading BD members ,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> China cannot be trusted , And Chines Jets isn't worth it
> Pakistan cannot be trusted , And Pakistani Jet isn't good enough
> Russia cannot be trusted and Russian Jets wont work against endia and Myanmar
> Gripen is expensive and west can sanction it
> US wont going to sell F-16 , even if US will F-16s are expensive and sanctions pro
> EFT will work but expensive and again Sanctions can also damage life support
> What the hell man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys want then ????????



BAF and BD government will decide. Why are you guys concerned?


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> So is Bangladesh, sanctions aren’t placed if you’re the defender... it’s placed if you’re the aggressor


Even in the case of Myanmar? If Myanmar attacked BD will China sanction J-10, or JF-17 if BD ever gets them? I have a feeling they would because of their relations with Myanmar.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Even in the case of Myanmar? If Myanmar attacked BD will China sanction J-10, or JF-17 if BD ever gets them? I have a feeling they would because of their relations with Myanmar.


They would so don’t you think thats counterintuitive to your cause?


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> They would so don’t you think thats counterintuitive to your cause?


I guess, but Indias strong UK lobby could cause sanctioning of BD for EFT also.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> I guess, but Indias strong UK lobby could cause sanctioning of BD for EFT also.


It doesn’t work that way. I would have thought this had India bought typhoon


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## Haris Ali2140

Michael Corleone said:


> It doesn’t work that way. I would have thought this had India bought typhoon


They will release another tender.

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> It doesn’t work that way. I would have thought this had India bought typhoon


India is apart of the commonwealth of nations... If India pressures UK with cutting economic ties, and other strategic sanctions they will succumb and stop supplying spare parts.


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Philip the Arab said:


> Indias strong UK lobby


They can't do a zilch against us in UK...


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## Michael Corleone

Haris Ali2140 said:


> They will release another tender.


Not for the same category


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## Haris Ali2140

Michael Corleone said:


> Not for the same category


Well I meant a lollipop.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> India is apart of the commonwealth of nations... If India pressures UK with cutting economic ties, and other strategic sanctions they will succumb and stop supplying spare parts.


We are part of the commonwealth too. That doesn’t nearly mean anything other than sucking up to your former colonial masters


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## Bengal71

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> They can't do a zilch against us in UK...



I see a lot of confidence among Bangladeshis about this. What's the reason you think UK will never do anything against us?


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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> I guess, but Indias strong UK lobby could cause sanctioning of BD for EFT also.



There are 3 BD origin MPs which will rise to around 7 by the next General election. In addition there are around 15 other muslim MPs who would directly support BD position. British BDs are a significant voting block in english cities.

Bangladesh diaspora has enough capacity politically and monetarily to neutralise indian influence. 

UK will remain neutral.

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## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> There are 3 BD origin MPs which will rise to around 7 by the next General election. In addition there are around 15 other muslim MPs who would directly support BD position. British BDs are a significant voting block in english cities.
> 
> Bangladesh diaspora has enough capacity politically and monetarily to neutralise indian influence.
> 
> UK will remain neutral.


Indian British population is more than 3X larger than BD British.. They have deep ties inside gov, and economy.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

CHACHA"G" said:


> What the hell man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *What do you guys want then ????????*


The most of the folks don't know what they want for they want it wrongfully to begin with!!!! They get what they don't want, and want what they don't get....

Verily the mankind is in a great loss except for those with _Iman, Ihlas, Sabr, Shukr_ etc...



Nike said:


> Thats why they are in dilemma, to bought new fighter they must considering many thing including diplomacy, prices and support spare parts . They are not that close with western power, they are one of the largest buyer of Chinese made weapons but China is close with Myanmar, their relationship with Russia is neutral at most if not warm but Russia is still the closest India ally.


BD's problem started as she offered herself as a buffer b/w India and China as per the Indian strategists!!! Hence, China has removed the pressure point off Burma, which has led to a strategic dilemma for BD (not to mention the Rohinga crisis)!!! Now, BD is left with nothing in the middle of nowhere - no political or military leadership nationalist and courageous enough to look into BD's interests.....

After the removal of Mujib by the ex Pak military officers in the BD Army, a strategy to counter India with China's help was devised! A strong and effective BD military was emerging, i.e. the Pak model!!! And, it was working well including putting off Burma!!! But, India made her move and did the "counter revolution"!!! Now, no light at the end of BD's dark and narrow tunnel....


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## Michael Corleone

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> After the removal of Mujib by the ex Pak military officers in the BD Army, a strategy to counter India with China's help was devised! A strong and effective BD military was emerging, i.e. the Pak model!!! And, it was working well including putting off Burma!!! But, India made her move and did the "counter revolution"!!! Now, no light at the end of BD's dark and narrow tunnel...


Let me stop you right there, bd economy didn’t start growing until the 1990s when “democracy” was put back in place.... ershad and zia did good work with limited resources, but never enough


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## Imran Khan

Comon man buy now 5th gen please

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## bluesky

shourov323 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


The air chief said only 4th generation but avoided saying 4th generation fighters. Not clear, unfortunately. However, I also believe that a few steps like inducting high-quality *SAMs and radars *in good numbers are a pre-requisite for buying the 4G planes. For example, BAF planes have to catch the enemy planes in the radar before SAMs are fired or planes take-off to intercept them. 

Without putting a proper defence system on the ground, the planes will be sitting ducks to be strafed by the enemy planes from above. So, I think BAF is procuring first the defence equipment after which it will induct the planes. To me, I can wait for a long time instead of buying planes very impulsively. 
The enemy generals will readily find out the flaws in the system if the cart is put before the horses. 

This is what Napoleon Bonaparte found when his ships were attacked by the Egyptian shore cannon battery that was not set on wheels but directly on the ground making them sitting ducks that could fire only in a limited radius.



Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> The most of the folks don't know what they want for they want it wrongfully to begin with!!!! They get what they don't want, and want what they don't get....
> 
> Verily *mankind is in a great loss except for those with Iman, Ihlas, Sabr, Shukr etc...*


Who says this, a Pakistani with a Turkish flag? We have already witnessed in 1971 what *Iman, Ihlas, Sabr, and Shukr* really mean to you. In fact, we found that you blabber these things on the surface to camouflage your real inside which may be worse than even the Indians. 

Please sell your religious propaganda to others who have not seen your real face. At least, the Pakistanis should not pretend to become our religious teachers. Please get lost.

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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> Indian British population is more than 3X larger than BD British.. They have deep ties inside gov, and economy.



The muslim population of Britain primarily comprised of BD and PK is larger than indians. 

The ties inside government and economy is equally ingrained. India do not have a free reign in UK.

If there is ever a need BD diaspora will mobilise against india and will also count on the support of muslims primarily composed of Pakistanis for support.

The muslims vote has a large impact on a huge number of constituency and certaintly a lot more than indians.


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## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> The muslim population of Britain primarily comprised of BD and PK is larger than indians.
> 
> The ties inside government and economy is equally ingrained. India do not have a free reign in UK.
> 
> If there is ever a need BD diaspora will mobilise against india and will also count on the support of muslims primarily composed of Pakistanis for support.
> 
> The muslims vote has a large impact on a huge number of constituency and certaintly a lot more than indians.


Also, couldn't India simply block supply routes or intercept aircraft coming from UK to give BD spare parts? I have a feeling its more than capable of that.


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## bluesky

Imran Khan said:


> Comon man buy now 5th gen please


We are happy to note that BAF is not willing to buy FC-1 with only speed of 1.6 Mach.

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## Imran Khan

bluesky said:


> We are happy to note that BAF is not willing to buy FC-1 with only speed of 1.6 Mach.


ohhh man how can BD buy fc-1 their aim is on j-7BGI the most advanced J-7 on earth

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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> Also, couldn't India simply block supply routes or intercept aircraft coming from UK to give BD spare parts? I have a feeling its more than capable of that.



Can india enforce a blockade..... well they will certaintly try.

However that is a different question to will UK support India over BD without a question. The answer is simply no it wont.

BD diaspora in UK is perfectly able to mobalise UK public opinion and influence UK government descisions as well as the indians. We are present in every sphere of UK just as the indians.


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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> Also, couldn't India simply block supply routes or intercept aircraft coming from UK to give BD spare parts? I have a feeling its more than capable of that.



UK has Queen Elizabeth class carriers with maximum of 50 F-35s in war load,Astute SSNs and Type-45 destroyers 
No supplies from UK will ever get intercepted by Indians.


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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> ohhh man how can BD buy fc-1 their aim is on j-7BGI the most advanced J-7 on earth



Buying the BGI at that time (2012-2013) was not a bad move.

If Sohail Aman praises the -PG, the -BGI isnt some slouch either.



UKBengali said:


> UK has Queen Elizabeth class carriers with maximum of 50 F-35s in war load,Astute SSNs and Type-45 destroyers
> No supplies from UK will ever get intercepted by Indians.



LOL.

You have delusions of grandeur if you think the UK will go to that extent to support Bangladesh.


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Bengal71 said:


> I see a lot of confidence among Bangladeshis about this. What's the reason you think UK will never do anything against us?


In UK we Sylhetis have the political and monetary capability to neutralize almost any Indian lobbying effort against Bangladesh. Most importantly, সোজা আংগুলে ঘি না উঠলে আংগুল ত্যারা করে ঘি তুলব! কোন সমস্যা নাই...



UKBengali said:


> UK has Queen Elizabeth class carriers with maximum of 50 F-35s in war load,Astute SSNs and Type-45 destroyers
> No supplies from UK will ever get intercepted by Indians.


Are Miya, Be logical!



Philip the Arab said:


> Also, couldn't India simply block supply routes or intercept aircraft coming from UK to give BD spare parts? I have a feeling its more than capable of that.


Well that's a different question. Yes! they can and they have the capability to do so. And with this action they will make us 3rd hostile country bordering them...


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## KapitaanAli

Imran Khan said:


> Comon man buy now 5th gen please


Don't you think BAF buying Tejas would gift us some of the most memorable times in PDF history? I can see many having that fear and I love it.
The lines for Mk1 will be 12/year soon and immediately the production for IAF will stop, then there'll be a lull before Mk1A production. Perfect timing for BAF.

Root for it for the sake of this forum, at least when you're a li'l drunk.

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## Avicenna

KapitaanAli said:


> Don't you think BAF buying Tejas would gift us some of the most memorable times in PDF history? I can see many having that fear and I love it.
> The lines for Mk1 will be 12/year soon and immediately the production for IAF will stop, then there'll be a lull before Mk1A production. Perfect timing for BAF.
> 
> Root for it for the sake of this forum, at least when you're a li'l drunk.



No.


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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> Also, couldn't India simply block supply routes or intercept aircraft coming from UK to give BD spare parts? I have a feeling its more than capable of that.


They certainly will try.Whether they'll be able to succeed, that's another matter. 
BN is supposed to operate 6-8 modern submarines by 2030.Along with maritime strike fighters & BN surface fleet, I think IN will be hard pressed to enforce a blockade.Don't forget they will have to commit resources against Pakistan & China as well.So, we'll not be facing their full strength. 
BN isn't BAF.In fact, I'll go as far as to say navy is the most professional & capable branch of our armed forces.We can trust BN to take proper measures in case of any misadventure by Indian navy.

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## Imran Khan

KapitaanAli said:


> Don't you think BAF buying Tejas would gift us some of the most memorable times in PDF history? I can see many having that fear and I love it.
> The lines for Mk1 will be 12/year soon and immediately the production for IAF will stop, then there'll be a lull before Mk1A production. Perfect timing for BAF.
> 
> Root for it for the sake of this forum, at least when you're a li'l drunk.


i will be more then happy to see tejas flying in bd colors


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> ohhh man how can BD buy fc-1 their aim is on j-7BGI the most advanced J-7 on earth


Well not less capable than any of the jf17 currently on service



Petrichor said:


> They certainly will try.Whether they'll be able to succeed, that's another matter.
> BN is supposed to operate 6-8 modern submarines by 2030.Along with maritime strike fighters & BN surface fleet, I think IN will be hard pressed to enforce a blockade.Don't forget they will have to commit resources against Pakistan & China as well.So, we'll not be facing their full strength.
> BN isn't BAF.In fact, I'll go as far as to say navy is the most professional & capable branch of our armed forces.We can trust BN to take proper measures in case of any misadventure by Indian navy.


Just as Royal Navy is pride of Britain, BN is our pride



Imran Khan said:


> i will be more then happy to see tejas flying in bd colors


I suppose you would also like to see a bottomless basket of a bd?


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> Well not less capable than any of the jf17 currently on service
> 
> 
> Just as Royal Navy is pride of Britain, BN is our pride
> 
> 
> I suppose you would also like to see a bottomless basket of a bd?


only jf-17 ????? we already discussed f-7BGI was far superior then many 4++gen fighters like su-35 f-15sa and rafale . jf-17 is just scrap in-front of Bangladeshi f-7BGI .

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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> only jf-17 ????? we already discussed f-7BGI was far superior then many 4++gen fighters like su-35 f-15sa and rafale . jf-17 is just scrap in-front of Bangladeshi f-7BGI .


Bruh, maybe don’t act childish if you want to be taken seriously


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> Bruh, maybe don’t act childish if you want to be taken seriously


whom started kidding first place ?

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## Nilgiri

Imran Khan said:


> Comon man buy now 5th gen please



Thinking is too simple. 6th Gen direct.

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## Avicenna

@Michael Corleone 

If internet sauces are true, it seems China is really looking to export J-10CE.

Any comments?


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## El Sidd

Post number 7095.

Bangladesh Airforce however wont last 7095 seconds in a war.

#TrueStory

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> If internet sauces are true, it seems China is really looking to export J-10CE.
> 
> Any comments?


IMO, a conflict with India is much more likely than one with Myanmar. If BD can get J-10s it would be better than getting foreign jets prone to sanctions if a conflict with India happens. No clue if those rumors are true but I wouldn't doubt it.



Retired Troll said:


> Post number 7095.
> 
> Bangladesh Airforce however wont last 7095 seconds in a war.
> 
> #TrueStory


Are you still sour because BD is independent?

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## El Sidd

Philip the Arab said:


> Are you still sour because BD is independent?



They are not independent nor sovereign. 

And I do not forgive traitors. Philip the Arab also did not forgive traitors

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> IMO, a conflict with India is much more likely than one with Myanmar. If BD can get J-10s it would be better than getting foreign jets prone to sanctions if a conflict with India happens.
> 
> 
> Are you still sour because BD is independent?



Winner winner chicken dinner.

41,000+ posts of nonsense speaks for itself.


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## Philip the Arab

Retired Troll said:


> They are not independent nor sovereign.
> 
> And I do not forgive traitors. Philip the Arab also did not forgive traitors


UK forgave America, and they have also forgiven all the countries that became independent via revolution.


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## El Sidd

Avicenna said:


> Winner winner chicken dinner.
> 
> 41,000+ posts of nonsense speaks for itself.



Your Countrys existence is Nonsense in itself

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Winner winner chicken dinner.
> 
> 41,000+ posts of nonsense speaks for itself.


His name says it all... Best to put him on the ignore list.
I don't remember, are you against JF-17 for BD?


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## El Sidd

Philip the Arab said:


> UK forgave America, and they have also forgiven all the countries that became independent via revolution.



i am not UK nor i am America. 

Pakistanis never forget nor forgive traitors. Countries who have accepted Bangladesh will be destroyed within your liferime


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> His name says it all... Best to put him on the ignore list.
> I don't remember, are you against JF-17 for BD?



I enjoy his posts for the entertainment value.

Sometimes there is some wisdom in there.

I don't ignore people.

Back to the topic, yea I think JF-17 is a reasonable choice for BAF.

I mean it was designed from the outset to replace the F-7 right?

Politically, I don't think its possible at this time.

But tactically, absolutely, Block 3 would be a good choice.

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## bluesky

Retired Troll said:


> They are not independent nor sovereign.
> 
> And I do not forgive traitors. Philip the Arab also did not forgive traitors


Who the Hell are you to forgive us? You should ask us for forgiving your misdeeds in 1971. And do not derail the thread by trolling incessantly. Let us talk on the subject.

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## ziaulislam

Avicenna said:


> I enjoy his posts for the entertainment value.
> 
> Sometimes there is some wisdom in there.
> 
> I don't ignore people.
> 
> Back to the topic, yea I think JF-17 is a reasonable choice for BAF.
> 
> I mean it was designed from the outset to replace the F-7 right?
> 
> Politically, I don't think its possible at this time.
> 
> But tactically, absolutely, Block 3 would be a good choice.


I agree either thunder or gripen or may be j10 if offered..
Problem with russian equipment is they will milk you hard after resultuing in almost always low operational capacity



Retired Troll said:


> i am not UK nor i am America.
> 
> Pakistanis never forget nor forgive traitors. Countries who have accepted Bangladesh will be destroyed within your liferime


Dont know which pakistanis are you referring too
Most have acknowledged wrong doing on both sides and have moved forward...mujeeb ur rehman and bhutto did that 45 years ago in 1973



Avicenna said:


> Buying the BGI at that time (2012-2013) was not a bad move.
> 
> If Sohail Aman praises the -PG, the -BGI isnt some slouch either.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL.
> 
> You have delusions of grandeur if you think the UK will go to that extent to support Bangladesh.


Very bad move
We even critize pakistan buying it in 2002
2012-13 should have been jf17/j10

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## El Sidd

bluesky said:


> Who the Hell are you to forgive us? You should ask us for forgiving your misdeeds in 1971. And do not derail the thread by trolling incessantly. Let us talk on the subject.



subject is discussed on post 7795



ziaulislam said:


> Dont know which pakistanis



the ones that matter


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> I enjoy his posts for the entertainment value.
> 
> Sometimes there is some wisdom in there.
> 
> I don't ignore people.
> 
> Back to the topic, yea I think JF-17 is a reasonable choice for BAF.
> 
> I mean it was designed from the outset to replace the F-7 right?
> 
> Politically, I don't think its possible at this time.
> 
> But tactically, absolutely, Block 3 would be a good choice.


IMO, BD doesn't need fighters against Myanmar. Best thing against them would be layered SAMs which I have a post about, and GLCMs. 

BD could use 100s of GLCM against Myanmar's bases in within strategic range of BD that could be used against BD. Layered SAMs could shoot down stragglers that escaped barrage. BD shouldn't get Chinese GLCM if possible, and go for a third party that isn't Russian so that they can be used against both India, and Myanmar.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> IMO, BD doesn't need fighters against Myanmar. Best thing against them would be layered SAMs which I have a post about, and GLCMs.
> 
> BD could use 100s of GLCM against Myanmar's bases in within strategic range of BD that could be used against BD. Layered SAMs could shoot down stragglers that escaped barrage. BD shouldn't get Chinese GLCM if possible, and go for a third party that isn't Russian so that they can be used against both India, and Myanmar.



I think BD needs to introduce in numbers 4+ gen aircraft as well as master the capabilities it brings.

That process will take a while.

Also, specifically against Myanmar, I don't see a full scale war.

However, it may be a border skirmish which escalates to some degree.

For that scenario I think a strong and capable BAF provides a deterence factor even before hostilities break out.

Lets be real, Bangladesh is not really an aggressive country.

The society is actually very docile.

But what it needs to guard against is a nasty neighbor to the East.

And a frenemy which surrounds it on three sides.

The advantage BD has is its political capital in the West.

Use it to obtain modern systems which Myanmar may not have access to.

That includes of course fighter aircraft and the relevant munitions.

Enter F-16, Gripen or Typhoon.


----------



## bluesky

Philip the Arab said:


> IMO, BD doesn't need fighters against Myanmar. Best thing against them would be layered SAMs which I have a post about, and GLCMs.
> 
> BD could use 100s of *GLCM* against Myanmar's bases in within strategic range of BD that could be used against BD. Layered SAMs could shoot down stragglers that escaped barrage. BD shouldn't get Chinese GLCM if possible, and go for a third party that isn't Russian so that they can be used against both India, and Myanmar.


I think the GoB is taking almost similar steps. It has been inducting SAMs for its defence against a possible conflict with MM. However, we lack offensive planes. I think both are needed in the case of a possible war scenario with MM whereby the GLCM/SAM can be used to target their land-based military assets.


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## Philip the Arab

bluesky said:


> I think the GoB is taking almost similar steps. It has been inducting SAMs for its defence against a possible conflict with MM. However, we lack offensive planes. I think both are needed in the case of a possible war scenario with MM whereby the GLCM/SAM can be used to target their land-based military assets.


You don't necessarily need new planes for a strategy against them. As I said, launch hundreds of GLCM at their airbases, and army bases at the start of conflict thereby disabling their offensive capabilities and setting them back years, and years. Similar to what the US did in Iraq in 03. BD needs longer range SAMs as I stated before.


Where could BD buy cruise missiles from? China, and Russia are both tricky because of China's relations with MM, and Russia's relationship with India. Pakistan could be an option, but again a conflict with MM would be tricky. Navy could also get a large surface ship with VLS launched cruise missiles.

Brazil could possibly be an option.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV-TM_300


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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> Where could BD buy cruise missiles from?


Turkey.


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Retired Troll said:


> Post number 7095.
> 
> Bangladesh Airforce however wont last 7095 seconds in a war.
> 
> #TrueStory


BD has voluntarily rejected Urdu, so no _Ordu_ for them!!! _Ilahi Adalet....
_
RAW HQ for BD ops lies within the GHQ of the BD Army - they share the same building!!! Pak has taken her revenge....


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## Philip the Arab

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> BD has voluntarily rejected Urdu, so no _Ordu_ for them!!! _Ilahi Adalet...._


…?


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## Avicenna

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> BD has voluntarily rejected Urdu, so no _Ordu_ for them!!! _Ilahi Adalet...._



Give it a rest.


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## Philip the Arab

@Avicenna
You can watch this video if you want, you may want to skip ahead but it interests me. Its a JF-17 module combat simulator game with F-15, F-16, F/A-18, Su-27, etc also in game. Cockpit seems very modern even though this is Block 1 variant. It would be a huge upgrade to BD modernity from using older cockpits in Mig-29, and in BGI(analog?).

* Long term plan that I think would be beneficial for BAF*

Slowly phase out older F-7 airframes with 5 or 6 squadrons of 12 JF-17s while keeping BGIs in service for some time. The price for these would be somewhere in the ballpark of* 3-4 billion USD*, the numbers I calculated are based of Nigerian purchase of 3 JF-17s for 184 million multiplied by 30. JF-17s can hold their own against Mig-29s, Tejas, MK2000, and Mig-21 of course. If Block III gets PL-15 than it will be able to take on Su-30MKI and Rafale at very, very long ranges assuming it could track them both.





Phase out Mig-29s with 4 squadrons of 12 J-10s, or EFTs for about* 15 billion* USD for EFTs and unknown price for J-10s but presumably lower. J-10s with JF-17s would presumably lower logistics costs if weapons are same throughout, and spare parts, and tools are the same or compatible with each other. Heavier fighters like Su-30 are out of the question because of obvious reasons mainly defense ties between India and Russia. This would be used for air superiority against Rafales, and Su-30MKIs.




Sorry... I ranted but wanted to get this out of my system and stop thinking about it. Total strength depending on squadron size

Video about anti-ship and land attack cruise missile in action and how they are used.
This man in the loop guidance from 90+KM is very interesting as well.







Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> BD has voluntarily rejected Urdu, so no _Ordu_ for them!!! _Ilahi Adalet...._


Why do you want Bangladeshis to speak Urdu? They are 1000s of KM away and are a distinct ethnic group compared to the average Pakistani.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> @Avicenna
> You can watch this video if you want, you may want to skip ahead but it interests me. Its a JF-17 module combat simulator game with F-15, F-16, F/A-18, Su-27, etc also in game. Cockpit seems very modern even though this is Block 1 variant. It would be a huge upgrade to BD modernity from using older cockpits in Mig-29, and in BGI(analog?).
> 
> Long term plan that I think would be beneficial for BAF
> 
> Slowly phase out older F-7 airframes with 5 or 6 squadrons of 12 JF-17s while keeping BGIs in service for some time. The price for these would be somewhere in the ballpark of* 3-4 billion USD*, the numbers I calculated are based of Nigerian purchase of 3 JF-17s for 184 million multiplied by 30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phase out Mig-29s with 4 squadrons of 12 J-10s, or EFTs for about* 15 billion* USD for EFTs and unknown price for J-10s but presumably lower. J-10s with JF-17s would presumably lower logistics costs if weapons are same throughout, and spare parts, and tools are the same or compatible with each other. Heavier fighters like Su-30 are out of the question because of obvious reasons mainly defense ties between India and Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... I ranted but wanted to get this out of my system and stop thinking about it.
> 
> Video about anti-ship and land attack cruise missile in action and how they are used.
> This man in the loop guidance from 90+KM is very interesting as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you want Bangladeshis to speak Urdu? They are 1000s of KM away and are a distinct ethnic group compared to the average Pakistani.



At the gym right now but just wanted to say I LOVE DCS.

Excited for the JF-17 module and would love to see a South Asia theater release.

I will reply to the rest of the post later inshAllah.

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## Imran Khan

Nilgiri said:


> Thinking is too simple. 6th Gen direct.


Russian su70 will be the choice ?

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## bluesky

Philip the Arab said:


> You don't necessarily need new planes for a strategy against them. As I said, launch hundreds of GLCM at their airbases, and army bases at the start of conflict thereby disabling their offensive capabilities and setting them back years, and years. Similar to what the US did in Iraq in 03. BD needs longer range SAMs as I stated before.
> 
> 
> Where could BD buy cruise missiles from? China, and Russia are both tricky because of China's relations with MM, and Russia's relationship with India. Pakistan could be an option, but again a conflict with MM would be tricky. Navy could also get a large surface ship with VLS launched cruise missiles.
> 
> *Brazil could possibly be an option.*
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV-TM_300


A quote from Wiki:
*"MTC-300 is a Brazilian cruise missile *that is under development by Avibras for the Astros 2020 system. Nicknamed _Matador_ ("killer"), it is projected to be a less expensive alternative to the American Tomahawk (missile). The missile is equipped with a central computer that combines a Ring laser gyroscope, connected to an active GPS navigation device that uninterruptedly supplies positioning information for a course correction".

The citation talks about *GPS navigation device* to make the MTC-300 missiles an effective weapon.
I wonder if this GPS navigation will fit the ability of BD.

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## Buddhistforlife

Philip the Arab said:


> Wouldn't China support Myanmar over BD in conflict for whatever reason? JF-17s would be sanctioned if BD bought them.


JF 17 or not, Bangladesh still needs to buy China or Russian made weapons because European and American jets would be costly. Bangladesh has an emergency need to upgrade it's air force to tackle any Burmese aggression for the next 5 years or so and low cost but efficient Chinese and Russian jets would rapidly build up the BAF.

But for the long term American and European jets are a way to go.



Michael Corleone said:


> Tbh with Burma getting jf17 and india having sukhoi 30 already... I don’t see us getting any of the jets


Myanmar already bought Su 30 Jets and are willing to order further Su 30 jets from Russia. But some sources say that the further orders are for the later variants of Su 30, possibly Su 34 or Su 35.

They also bought JF 17B twin seater version from Pakistan this year.


----------



## Philip the Arab

bluesky said:


> A quote from Wiki:
> *"MTC-300 is a Brazilian cruise missile *that is under development by Avibras for the Astros 2020 system. Nicknamed _Matador_ ("killer"), it is projected to be a less expensive alternative to the American Tomahawk (missile). The missile is equipped with a central computer that combines a Ring laser gyroscope, connected to an active GPS navigation device that uninterruptedly supplies positioning information for a course correction".
> 
> The citation talks about *GPS navigation device* to make the MTC-300 missiles an effective weapon.
> I wonder if this GPS navigation will fit the ability of BD.


What do you mean?



Buddhistforlife said:


> JF 17 or not, Bangladesh still needs to buy China or Russian made weapons because European and American jets would be costly. Bangladesh has an emergency need to upgrade it's air force to tackle any Burmese aggression for the next 5 years or so and low cost but efficient Chinese and Russian jets would rapidly build up the BAF.
> 
> But for the long term American and European jets are a way to go.
> 
> 
> Myanmar already bought Su 30 Jets and are willing to order further Su 30 jets from Russia. But some sources say that the further orders are for the later variants of Su 30, possibly Su 34 or Su 35.
> 
> They also bought JF 17B twin seater version from Pakistan this year.


BD won't have a conflict with Myanmar IMO anytime soon, and it won't be in the same scale as a conflict with India would be. As I said above GLCMs, and layered SAMs would be the best immediate solution in a conflict with MM. Launch hundreds of cruise missiles at strategic air bases, and army bases, and let layered SAMs take care of any stragglers. MM would be behind by a few decades and be no longer a threat if you could take out their Mig-29s, Su-30s, JF-17s, etc.

Now, JF-17s, and J-10s would be needed with conflict with India because they won't ever be sanctioned in a conflict with India. China and PK will be more than happy to supply BD with spare parts, and weapon replacements in a conflict. EU and US planes are expensive and wouldn't be necessary and possibly prone to sanctions in a long term conflict.


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> JF 17 or not, Bangladesh still needs to buy China or Russian made weapons because European and American jets would be costly. Bangladesh has an emergency need to upgrade it's air force to tackle any Burmese aggression for the next 5 years or so and low cost but efficient Chinese and Russian jets would rapidly build up the BAF.
> 
> But for the long term American and European jets are a way to go.
> 
> 
> Myanmar already bought Su 30 Jets and are willing to order further Su 30 jets from Russia. But some sources say that the further orders are for the later variants of Su 30, possibly Su 34 or Su 35.
> 
> They also bought JF 17B twin seater version from Pakistan this year.


Yeah, only way to stop them is arms embargo



Retired Troll said:


> Post number 7095.
> 
> Bangladesh Airforce however wont last 7095 seconds in a war.
> 
> #TrueStory


We don’t have to, especially when Pakistan couldn’t last for 9 months against rice farmers



Avicenna said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> If internet sauces are true, it seems China is really looking to export J-10CE.
> 
> Any comments?


Not sure since only B variant is cleared for export... however it is to incorporate avionics according to our requirements so don’t be surprised if it’s a variant especially made for us... I hear j10 too... though mig 35 is also up there 
no gripen, f 16 like some stupid morons here will have you believe

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## Sehnsucht

Michael Corleone said:


> however though mig 35 is also up there no gripen, f 16 like some stupid morons here will have you believe


 Getting Mig-35 would be dumb imo.
Don't diss us morons, man.We only want good stuff for BAF.


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## Michael Corleone

Petrichor said:


> Getting Mig-35 would be dumb imo.
> Don't diss us morons, man.We only want good stuff for BAF.


XD okay bro 
Mig 35 is a bad idea, I agree

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Yeah, only way to stop them is arms embargo
> 
> 
> We don’t have to, especially when Pakistan couldn’t last for 9 months against rice farmers
> 
> 
> Not sure since only B variant is cleared for export... however it is to incorporate avionics according to our requirements so don’t be surprised if it’s a variant especially made for us... I hear j10 too... though mig 35 is also up there
> no gripen, f 16 like some stupid morons here will have you believe


I think the only reason you don't want JF-17 is because you dislike Pakistanis. Is this true?


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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> I think the only reason you don't want JF-17 is because you dislike Pakistanis. Is this true?



No one dislikes Pakistanis. There is obviously some lingering beef due to 1971.

JF17 was inspected and rejected by BAF. A few years ago when it was inspected it was the first generation of JF17. BD had a choice but it choose to buy F7-BGI instead. The rationalle was we already had maintenance infastructure for it and JF17 did not offer that much of a leap in capacity over F7-BGI that was offered very very cheapely by the chinese. Additionally it was a new plane and an unknown it terms of quality.

Now from my perspective that was an idiotic and shortsighted descision.

BDs strategic calculation since that point has changed, as has its economic capacity.

At this moment given the potential adversaries we have JF17 in my mind is a no-go. It is essentially chinese who are allies of the simian congloromate aka burma. BD can not afford to have its hands tied by china in defense matters. I am of the firm belief in gradual disengagement with China in defense procurement.

I fundamentally want western jets, i do not believe we will be embargoed. We wont be able to afford many but i feel if we can field 5-7 sqd of EFT and F16 mix we acheive superiority over the monkeys and achieve credible defensive posture against india for the next 20 years.

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## Haris Ali2140

mb444 said:


> No one dislikes Pakistanis. There is obviously some lingering beef due to 1971.
> 
> JF17 was inspected and rejected by BAF. A few years ago when it was inspected it was the first generation of JF17. BD had a choice but it choose to buy F7-BGI instead. The rationalle was we already had maintenance infastructure for it and JF17 did not offer that much of a leap in capacity over F7-BGI that was offered very very cheapely by the chinese. Additionally it was a new plane and an unknown it terms of quality.
> 
> Now from my perspective that was an idiotic and shortsighted descision.
> 
> BDs strategic calculation since that point has changed, as has its economic capacity.
> 
> At this moment given the potential adversaries we have JF17 in my mind is a no-go. It is essentially chinese who are allies of the simian congloromate aka burma. BD can not afford to have its hands tied by china in defense matters. I am of the firm belief in gradual disengagement with China in defense procurement.
> 
> I fundamentally want western jets, i do not believe we will be embargoed. We wont be able to afford many but i feel if we can field 5-7 sqd of EFT and F16 mix we acheive superiority over the monkeys and achieve credible defensive posture against india for the next 20 years.


Besides Rohingayan immigrants, whats the issue with Mayanmar and Bangladesh???
In short.


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## Avicenna

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Besides Rohingayan immigrants, whats the issue with Mayanmar and Bangladesh???
> In short.



Rohingya.

Potential maritime disputes.

Most importantly, the ongoing hostile attitude towards BD by the Myanmar government and peoples.

There is high potential for at least border skirmishes.

Also @Philip the Arab 

To address your earlier post:

Take this with many grains of salt.

BD is building 2 airbases, one in Barisal and the other in Sylhet.

It has Dhaka of course, and is expanding the one in Chittagong as well as Cox's Bazar.

So that makes 5.

You would think each would have AT LEAST 1 full squadron. 

So your looking at 5 squadrons eventually of a fighter type. (InshAllah)

Right now there is a half squadron of Mig-29 in Dhaka.

Also 2 squadrons of F-7. (One BG, the other BGI)

I'm not gonna count the combat capable Yaks in this as they are mainly for training with a secondary ground attack capability.

So that's really 2.5 squadrons at present.

What you potentially might see then is the BAF more than double its combat capable multirole aircraft in fielding 5 squadrons.

The question is whats the mix?

To be continued.

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## Philip the Arab

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Besides Rohingayan immigrants, whats the issue with Mayanmar and Bangladesh???
> In short.


Whatever the issue, if a conflict with MM happened it would be a skirmish and not a full blown war. I propose BD invest in GLCM, and layered SAMs against them instead of focusing on A2A combat. MMs bases are spread out and those that can actually reach BD and hit them are few and concentrated mostly in Sittwe. If BD can get GPS ground launched cruise missiles with 300+ KM range a lot of Myanmar will be in range of strikes. Any aircraft stragglers that get into their air can be dealt with by long range SAMs.



Avicenna said:


> Rohingya.
> 
> Potential maritime disputes.
> 
> Most importantly, the ongoing hostile attitude towards BD by the Myanmar government and peoples.
> 
> There is high potential for at least border skirmishes.
> 
> Also @Philip the Arab
> 
> To address your earlier post:
> 
> Take this with many grains of salt.
> 
> BD is building 2 airbases, one in Barisal and the other in Sylhet.
> 
> It has Dhaka of course, and is expanding the one in Chittagong as well as Cox's Bazar.
> 
> So that makes 5.
> 
> You would think each would have AT LEAST 1 full squadron.
> 
> So your looking at 5 squadrons eventually of a fighter type. (InshAllah)
> 
> Right now there is a half squadron of Mig-29 in Dhaka.
> 
> Also 2 squadrons of F-7. (One BG, the other BGI)
> 
> I'm not gonna count the combat capable Yaks in this as they are mainly for training with a secondary ground attack capability.
> 
> So that's really 2.5 squadrons at present.
> 
> What you potentially might see then is the BAF more than double its combat capable multirole aircraft in fielding 5 squadrons.
> 
> The question is whats the mix?
> 
> To be continued.


Why can't BD just buy JF-17s and J-10s for India while focusing older planes and GLCMs on MM? As I said, Myanmar has 5 main airbases spread out across the country.

Sittwe airbase and possibly Meiktila air base is almost certinly the only threat if you look on a map and it has a total of 30 fighters either F-7s, or Mig-29s.
Ye, Myitkana, Myiek, Tachileik are all too far to have any effect right away but could be destroyed as well. It would be best to start with 20 GLCMs being launched towards Sittwe from Cox's Bazaar and possibly 20 GLCMs launched at Meiktila as well. Any stragglers would be taken out by BDs SAMs and older planes like BGI, and Mig-29s.






Layer this around Cox's Bazaar to prevent retaliation.

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## Imran Khan

Philip the Arab said:


> Whatever the issue, if a conflict with MM happened it would be a skirmish and not a full blown war. I propose BD invest in GLCM, and layered SAMs against them instead of focusing on A2A combat. MMs bases are spread out and those that can actually reach BD and hit them are few and concentrated mostly in Sittwe. If BD can get GPS ground launched cruise missiles with 300+ KM range a lot of Myanmar will be in range of strikes. Any aircraft stragglers that get into their air can be dealt with by long range SAMs.
> 
> 
> Why can't BD just buy JF-17s and J-10s for India while focusing older planes and GLCMs on MM? As I said, Myanmar has 5 main airbases spread out across the country.
> 
> Sittwe airbase and possibly Meiktila air base is almost certinly the only threat if you look on a map and it has a total of 30 fighters either F-7s, or Mig-29s.
> Ye, Myitkana, Myiek, Tachileik are all too far to have any effect right away but could be destroyed as well. It would be best to start with 20 GLCMs being launched towards Sittwe from Cox's Bazaar and possibly 20 GLCMs launched at Meiktila as well. Any stragglers would be taken out by BDs SAMs and older planes like BGI, and Mig-29s.
> View attachment 581443
> 
> 
> Layer this around Cox's Bazaar to prevent retaliation.


you are wasting your energy sir sorry to say .

BD is not gonna make some air force . last 25 years they buy some 8-10 f7s . in future they will buy some 10-15 fighter jets but god knows when . its not worth to type long posts and etc . BD members having this favorite time-pass since last 7 years here .

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## Philip the Arab

Imran Khan said:


> you are wasting your energy sir sorry to say .
> 
> BD is not gonna make some air force . last 25 years they buy some 8-10 f7s . in future they will buy some 10-15 fighter jets but god knows when . its not worth to type long posts and etc . BD members having this favorite time-pass since last 7 years here .


I have a lot of time on my hands... Its no problem to talk to other members about my ideas.

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## Imran Khan

Philip the Arab said:


> I have a lot of time on my hands... Its no problem to talk to other members about my ideas.


Those whom need to make aurforce they are buy jf17RUBI .yes i mean mayanmar air force . From our side we already sekected mayanmar over BD.


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## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> Getting Mig-35 would be dumb imo.
> Don't diss us morons, man.We only want good stuff for BAF.


Mig 35 is just an improved variant of Mig 29 nothing much.


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## Philip the Arab

Imran Khan said:


> Those whom need to make aurforce they are buy jf17RUBI .yes i mean mayanmar air force . From our side we already sekected mayanmar over BD.


And? Greece and Turkey both operate the F-16. So what?


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## Imran Khan

Philip the Arab said:


> And? Greece and Turkey both operate the F-16. So what?


Well as we have seen i think PAF and imran khan will not even allow to sale thunders to BD for both polotical and tech reasons .sending thunders to BD mean sending thunders direct in indian hands . Haseena was barking until last year to pakistan i think imran khan knoe it very well that she is puppet of india.forget thunder they can but something else.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> And? Greece and Turkey both operate the F-16. So what?



You can see the bias and idiocy of some of the members here.

Thanks for your interest in the BAF.

Your ideas are good.

I think there's a large degree of incompetence in the decision makers concerning BAF.

So although I'd like to discount some of the haters, I'm not really sure how its gonna play out.

Also, as long as Hasina is in power, JF-17 isn't happening.

But I will say this, there is no inherent beef between the people of BD and PK beyond the lingering effects of 1971.

Hasina/AL has used that for political benefit.

But even as early as 1991 there was amicable relations militarily.

PAF had gifted BAF a large number of J-6 in 1991, which were unfortunately taken out by a cyclone because the incompetent BAF did not move them out of the way.


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## Philip the Arab

Imran Khan said:


> Well as we have seen i think PAF and imran khan will not even allow to sale thunders to BD for both polotical and tech reasons .sending thunders to BD mean sending thunders direct in indian hands . Haseena was barking until last year to pakistan i think imran khan knoe it very well that she is puppet of india.forget thunder they can but something else.


You don't think Nigeria will give Thunders directly to Israeli hands and then to Indian hands?


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> You can see the bias and idiocy of some of the members here.
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the BAF.
> 
> Your ideas are good.
> 
> I think there's a large degree of incompetence in the decision makers concerning BAF.
> 
> So although I'd like to discount some of the haters, I'm not really sure how its gonna play out.


Idiocy is talking big 15 years and buying nothing .its stupidity just go read posts of 2007 2010 2015 and 2017 all same dreams of high tech are just dreams



Philip the Arab said:


> You don't think Nigeria will give Thunders directly to Israeli hands and then to Indian hands?


Israel is not a threat to us at all


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## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> Rohingya.
> 
> Potential maritime disputes.
> 
> Most importantly, the ongoing hostile attitude towards BD by the Myanmar government and peoples.
> 
> There is high potential for at least border skirmishes.
> 
> Also @Philip the Arab
> 
> To address your earlier post:
> 
> Take this with many grains of salt.
> 
> BD is building 2 airbases, one in Barisal and the other in Sylhet.
> 
> It has Dhaka of course, and is expanding the one in Chittagong as well as Cox's Bazar.
> 
> So that makes 5.
> 
> You would think each would have AT LEAST 1 full squadron.
> 
> So your looking at 5 squadrons eventually of a fighter type. (InshAllah)
> 
> Right now there is a half squadron of Mig-29 in Dhaka.
> 
> Also 2 squadrons of F-7. (One BG, the other BGI)
> 
> I'm not gonna count the combat capable Yaks in this as they are mainly for training with a secondary ground attack capability.
> 
> So that's really 2.5 squadrons at present.
> 
> What you potentially might see then is the BAF more than double its combat capable multirole aircraft in fielding 5 squadrons.
> 
> The question is whats the mix?
> 
> To be continued.


Border skirmishes would be between the BGB and BGP. If the armed forces of both the nation gets involved then it will be an all out war.


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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> Idiocy is talking big 15 years and buying nothing .its stupidity just go read posts of 2007 2010 2015 and 2017 all same dreams of high tech are just dreams
> 
> 
> Israel is not a threat to us at all



"Israel is not a threat to us at all"

Like I was saying IDIOCY.

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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Like I was saying IDIOCY.


Where are those bdmilotary forum leaks of yeats olds

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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> And? Greece and Turkey both operate the F-16. So what?


Don't mind him.He's biased, sometimes outright hateful against BD.Often disgustingly so with attitude you'd expect from sanghi Indian.
I do agree with @Avicenna vai.Your ideas are good. Keep it up.It's nice to have decent discussions in this forum sometimes. It's a rare occurrence after all.

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> Where are those bdmilotary forum leaks of yeats olds



There are always gonna be rumors.

SU-35 for Pakistan?

Indian MMMMMMMRCA?

Bangladesh didn't even have the financial resources for a substantial buy until just recently.

So what are you going on about?


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## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> "Israel is not a threat to us at all"
> 
> Like I was saying IDIOCY.


This is beyond parody. People somehow finds linkage between Israel and each and every incident surrounding them. This has become out of control.


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## Sehnsucht

Imran Khan said:


> Israel is not a threat to us at all


Rich of you to call others idiotic.
If you really think Israel isn't a threat to the ONLY nuke power among Muslim countries, I pity your intelligence.

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## Philip the Arab

Buddhistforlife said:


> This is beyond parody. People somehow finds linkage between Israel and each and every incident surrounding them. This has become out of control.


Ties between India, and Israel are proven... Israel supplies them with a lot of intelligence and weapons for use against Pakistan.

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## Sehnsucht

Imran Khan said:


> Idiocy is


 spelling know as "knoe",airforce as "aurforce", selected as "sekected".



Philip the Arab said:


> Ties between India, and Israel are proven... Israel supplies them without a lot of intelligence and weapons for use against Pakistan.


It was Israeli "Spice" kits that India used to bomb Pakistan in February.Yet this guy thinks Israel isn't a threat.It's baffling how he became a PDF veteran.

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## Imran Khan

Petrichor said:


> spelling know as "knoe",airforce as "aurforce", selected as "sekected".
> 
> 
> It was Israeli "Spice" kits that India used to bomb Pakistan in February.Yet this guy thinks Israel isn't a threat.It's baffling how he became a PDF veteran.


First yeah typing on cell sucks

We used US made weapons its not mean usa is enemy of india . India send m2k and we sent m5 its noy mean france is enemy of both ind-pk



Petrichor said:


> Rich of you to call others idiotic.
> If you really think Israel isn't a threat to the ONLY nuke power among Muslim countries, I pity your intelligence.


Istael did not have any issue with pakistan in last 72 years


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> I think the only reason you don't want JF-17 is because you dislike Pakistanis. Is this true?


If that’s their insecurity then that’s there problem, I don’t hate Pakistanis... my closest friends are Pakistanis... i have half my family there... it’s not that we hate jf17... to me if we could stall for 20 years we could wait longer to get something substantially better and not just an upgrade


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## Imran Khan

Philip the Arab said:


> Ties between India, and Israel are proven... Israel supplies them with a lot of intelligence and weapons for use against Pakistan.


So do others they sale weapons those whom pay for it . Even pakistan recived made in israel military equpment via turkey.


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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> So do others they sale weapons those whom pay for it . Even pakistan recived made in israel military equpment via turkey.



Yea Iran-Contra.

Fast forward to 2019.

Come on man.


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> Yea Iran-Contra.
> 
> Fast forward to 2019.
> 
> Come on man.


It's pointless talking to him.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Let him live in the comfort of his delusions.

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## Michael Corleone

Guys, hate to be that guy but I would rather discuss jf17 than talk about Pakistan India and Israel here

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Guys, hate to be that guy but I would rather discuss jf17 than talk about Pakistan India and Israel here


Respond to my post #7115.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Respond to my post #7115.


There’s nothing to be said, because I’ve already said it... jf17s do not meet our requirements... we need j10s

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> There’s nothing to be said, because I’ve already said it... jf17s do not meet our requirements... we need j10s


J-10s are mentioned there... Just read it fully.


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## SABRE

Michael Corleone said:


> If that’s their insecurity then that’s there problem, I don’t hate Pakistanis... my closest friends are Pakistanis... i have half my family there... it’s not that we hate jf17... to me if we could stall for 20 years we could wait longer to get something substantially better and not just an upgrade



It's nobodies insecurity. The sentiments and perceptions of people on social media do not necessarily represent the state's policy or perceptions. Otherwise, it could also be said that Pakistan is unwilling to sell JF-17 to BD because it doesn't that BD won't provide access to India. Having said that, BD not buying JF-17 is BD's own business but as far as speculation goes it mostly seems like a political decision. As long as Hassina is in power the possibility of such a deal is quite grim. Khalida might have been a different story.


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## Michael Corleone

SABRE said:


> It's nobodies insecurity. The sentiments and perceptions of people on social media do not necessarily represent the state's policy or perceptions. Otherwise, it could also be said that Pakistan is unwilling to sell JF-17 to BD because it doesn't that BD won't provide access to India. Having said that, BD not buying JF-17 is BD's own business but as far as speculation goes it mostly seems like a political decision. As long as Hassina is in power the possibility of such a deal is quite grim. Khalida might have been a different story.


Truth be told, it was under Hasina when they were evaluated, imo if Khaleda had been in power, the navy wouldn’t be what it is today... and forget about the air force... she would just buy jf17s as replacements for old fleet. Not actually modernize or anything. if I was god, I would rather have had ershad in power... but too bad the dude is dead and couldn’t do much for the country like he hoped



Philip the Arab said:


> J-10s are mentioned there... Just read it fully.


I did. I think j10s are perfect candidate to form backbone of our fleet... 6-8 squadrons of j10 and 2 eft will be perfect.the EFTs if all goes smoothly should serve as air superiority fighters, i don’t see EFT multiroles in our sky... not until 2023 delivery of tranche 3 of Kuwait is done

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Truth be told, it was under Hasina when they were evaluated, imo if Khaleda had been in power, the navy wouldn’t be what it is today... and forget about the air force... she would just buy jf17s as replacements for old fleet. Not actually modernize or anything. if I was god, I would rather have had ershad in power... but too bad the dude is dead and couldn’t do much for the country like he hoped
> 
> 
> I did. I think j10s are perfect candidate to form backbone of our fleet... 6-8 squadrons of j10 and 2 eft will be perfect.the EFTs if all goes smoothly should serve as air superiority fighters, i don’t see EFT multiroles in our sky... not until 2023 delivery of tranche 3 of Kuwait is done



Any Typhoon would be used and thus Tranche 1 restricted essentially for the air to air mission.

Get some Meteors and ASRAAM and now you are talking.

For multirole, yes J-10C is perfect.

It can fulfill the anti-ship role with the YJ-91 along with other missiles probably.

The only question is range.

I don't know the radius of action for J-10C and probably the Flanker is better in that respect.

Still all things considered.....used Typhoon and J-10C is the way to go probably.

If things are gonna be signed soon, I doubt Gripen or F-16 is in the cards.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

*This post is only for the _Ehl-i Iman _who understand _Hakikat_. I have put most of the BD members in my "ignore" list...

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Any Typhoon would be used and thus Tranche 1 restricted essentially for the air to air mission.
> 
> Get some Meteors and ASRAAM and now you are talking.
> 
> For multirole, yes J-10C is perfect.
> 
> It can fulfill the anti-ship role with the YJ-91 along with other missiles probably.
> 
> The only question is range.
> 
> I don't know the radius of action for J-10C and probably the Flanker is better in that respect.
> 
> Still all things considered.....used Typhoon and J-10C is the way to go probably.
> 
> If things are gonna be signed soon, I doubt Gripen or F-16 is in the cards.


J-10C is more than enough for a multirole/air superiority role. PL-15s have similar range to Meteor and PL-10 is like ASRAAM. TBH, I don't think China will sell J-10C but may offer J-10B to BD.
In modern A2A combat you usually don't use fighters radar for acquisition, you use AWACS. BD needs AWACS as well preferably from China if BD buys J-10.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> J-10C is more than enough for a multirole/air superiority role. PL-15s have similar range to Meteor and PL-10 is like ASRAAM. TBH, I don't think China will sell J-10C but may offer J-10B to BD.



I think the J-10B was a stop gap until the C was available.

The -B uses the AL-31FN whereas the -C just started to use the WS-10.

It may be the Russians may not release the AF-31 to BD because of spite of not buying their aircraft.

The -B uses a PESA whereas the -C is full AESA.

I heard on another forum that China is VERY EAGER to export the -C as the -CE.

I don't know if that's true or not but J-10C would be a great add to BAF.

The other issue is AEW/AWACS.

KJ-200 or KJ-500?

If Typhoons are bought I doubt they are compatible.

Might have to come up with a Pakistan type solution regarding Thunders, F-16, Eireye and ZDK-03.

https://quwa.org/2016/04/05/link-17-pakistans-homegrown-data-link-system/

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> I think the J-10B was a stop gap until the C was available.
> 
> The -B uses the AL-31FN whereas the -C just started to use the WS-10.
> 
> It may be the Russians may not release the AF-31 to BD because of spite of not buying their aircraft.
> 
> The -B uses a PESA whereas the -C is full AESA.
> 
> I heard on another forum that China is VERY EAGER to export the -C as the -CE.
> 
> I don't know if that's true or not but J-10C would be a great add to BAF.
> 
> The other issue is AEW/AWACS.
> 
> KJ-200 or KJ-500?
> 
> If Typhoons are bought I doubt they are compatible.
> 
> Might have to come up with a Pakistan type solution regarding Thunders, F-16, Eireye and ZDK-03.
> 
> https://quwa.org/2016/04/05/link-17-pakistans-homegrown-data-link-system/


Yes, I agree Russia may be reluctant to sell engines to BD because of India. C is AESA, you are correct and would be a huge, huge boost to BAF compared to what they have now. AWACS is complicated by data linking with Typhoon by a Chinese system. It could probably be done, but unlikely.





Max speed (km/hr): 550
Max range (km): 5700
Max endurance (hr): 12
Max takeoff weight(tons): 77
Range against fighter sized targets (km): 470
Flying in central BD it could cover all of BD, and be safe from A2A missiles.





Also, do you agree Surface Launched Cruise Missiles could help BD Army or AF or hell even the Navy? Saturation attacks on Indian and MM bases would render them destroyed.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Any Typhoon would be used and thus Tranche 1 restricted essentially for the air to air mission.
> 
> Get some Meteors and ASRAAM and now you are talking.
> 
> For multirole, yes J-10C is perfect.
> 
> It can fulfill the anti-ship role with the YJ-91 along with other missiles probably.
> 
> The only question is range.
> 
> I don't know the radius of action for J-10C and probably the Flanker is better in that respect.
> 
> Still all things considered.....used Typhoon and J-10C is the way to go probably.
> 
> If things are gonna be signed soon, I doubt Gripen or F-16 is in the cards.





Tranche 1 Typhoon cannot fire Meteor as it needs the Tranche 3's AESA radar to be able to do it.

I very much doubt that BAF would actually purchase Tranche 1 Typhoons since it's dated electronics would impact too much on performance.


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## Imran Khan

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> *This post is only for the _Ehl-i Iman _who understand _Hakikat_. I have put most of the BD members in my "ignore" list...
> 
> View attachment 581480


This show Bangladesh is bigger enemy of pakistan then Israel.Israel look brother to me here

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Tranche 1 Typhoon cannot fire Meteor as it needs the Tranche 3's AESA radar to be able to do it.
> 
> I very much doubt that BAF would actually purchase Tranche 1 Typhoons since it's dated electronics would impact too much on performance.



You’re right they can’t use Meteor.

That presents a problem then in terms of BVR missile unless the US releases AMRAAM.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> You’re right they can’t use Meteor.
> 
> That presents a problem then in terms of BVR missile unless the US releases AMRAAM.



May as well go for F-16 in that case.


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## Sehnsucht

Imran Khan said:


> This show bangladesh is bigger enemy of pakistan then israel.isral look brother to me here


People like you are the cancer of the Muslim world.If I was new to this forum, I'd have thought you to be an Indian or Israeli false-flagger.
Other members here should take note of the bold part.


Imran Khan said:


> *isral look brother to me here*


Anyone, to whom Israel looks like a brother, is garbage.Just like someone who thinks India is his brother despite atrocities committed in Kashmir.


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## Sehnsucht

Imran Khan said:


> A bengali talking muslimhood ahhahaha last week your elected minister said we are bengali first muslim after that . Your country as a whole is curse for muslims . I am still confused bd is hindu country or not.
> Anyone sucking hindu facists balls is more liek a prostitute


You're a very unpleasant person.Also, your insults are lacking in quality. Try to learn how to insult from @Nilgiri or @Retired Troll.Also learn how to spell as well.


Imran Khan said:


> Anyone ** hindu facists balls is more ***


Your language only shows what kinda person you are.
@waz, @Dubious, @Irfan Baloch, @WebMaster.
I have seen him posting this kinda stuff & much worse many times & getting away with it.Is he above the law because he is an old member & Pakistani?

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## Dubious

Imran Khan said:


> A bengali talking muslimhood ahhahaha last week your elected minister said we are bengali first muslim after that . Your country as a whole is curse for muslims . I am still confused bd is hindu country or not.
> 
> 
> 
> F35 will be better f16 is 45 yeats old junk sir


Mind your language


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## Dubious

@Michael Corleone 

Such language will not be tolerated!


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## SABRE

The language being used here from both BD & Pakistani members is despicable and uncalled for.

Anyway, my 2 cents are that BD doesn't need a powerful aircraft, it needs a quantitatively qualitative Air Force. Advance jets such as EFT or Su-30/35 would only come in a handful of numbers. Another "8" aircraft won't do. BAF at least requires ~30 new jets alongside airborne early warning system (at least one). Also, don't think India, think Myanmar for now.

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## Philip the Arab

SABRE said:


> The language being used here from both BD & Pakistani members is despicable and uncalled for.
> 
> Anyway, my 2 cents are that BD doesn't need a powerful aircraft, it needs a quantitatively qualitative Air Force. Advance jets such as EFT or Su-30/35 would only come in a handful of numbers. Another "8" aircraft won't do. BAF at least requires ~30 new jets alongside airborne early warning system (at least one). Also, don't think India, think Myanmar for now.


BD can buy 60 J-10s of 15 billion if they set aside some money for AF instead of investing so much in Navy, and Army(both important). JF-17s are cheaper, but political disagreements and 50 year old sourness with Pakistan are limiting this deal. 






AWACS would be KJ-500 which can cover all of BD(flying near Dhaka) and include a lot of MM, and, India. This would be used against MM, or more likely against India's Su-30MKIs, Rafales, Mig-29s, Tejas, etc by sending J-10s to exact locations.










As I said before, an alliance with BD, PK, and CN would be fatal for India if BD could establish a respectable air force. India having to fight a 3 front war will make their army, navy, and air force have to be spread very, very thin to fight all of these armies at the same time.


A war with Myanmar will probably cause China to sanction J-10s but a conflict will be short either way and I doubt Chinese sanctions would have a major effect unless it was a full blown war and lasted more than a few months. I think BD should hurry up and GLCMs for use against Myanmar's bases, and strategic targets and use layered SAMs around Cox's Bazar against stragglers than survived saturation attack of cruise missiles.


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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> As I said before, an alliance with BD, PK, and CN would be fatal for India if BD could establish a respectable air force. India having to fight a 3 front war will make their army, navy, and air force have to be spread very, very thin to fight all of these armies at the same time.


I have been saying the same thing for quite some time. But seems like many of our Pakistani brothers here would rather fight India alone rather than allying themselves with us.
Also, I don't think 60 J-10s would cost 15 billion.Because that'd make it about as expensive as Rafale, perhaps more.


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## Philip the Arab

Petrichor said:


> I have been saying the same thing for quite some time. But seems like many of our Pakistani brothers here would rather fight India alone rather than allying themselves with us.
> Also, I don't think 60 J-10s would cost 15 billion.Because that'd make it about as expensive as Rafale, perhaps more.


Kuwait payed 9 billion for 28 EFTs so I was going off a similar cost to that..
J-10 is supposedly 41 million USD per plane, which adds up to 2.46 billion dollars but you have to add in spare parts, facilities, weapons, etc which adds up to maybe 5-6 billion?


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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> I have been saying the same thing for quite some time. But seems like many of our Pakistani brothers here would rather fight India alone rather than allying themselves with us.
> Also, I don't think 60 J-10s would cost 15 billion.Because that'd make it about as expensive as Rafale, perhaps more.



So its apparent, that BJP India is two faced.

It presents itself one way for the world but the reality is quite different.

You can be sure it is no friend of Bangladesh.

So now the question is for Bangladesh which is the bigger threat, India or Myanmar?

Unfortunately, the politics are convoluted which makes the choice of sourcing the equipment complicated as well.

Realistically, any of the types in question would bring their own sets of pros and cons and we at home don't have the knowledge or access to critical information to make the tactical determination as which choice is best.

I tend to agree with @SABRE.

BAF needs quantitative qualitative.

8 of a type isn't gonna cut it.

It needs 4+ gen in numbers.

And it needs to actually develop a war fighting capability, not just fly these planes in straight lines from Dhaka to Chittagong and back.

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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> Kuwait payed 9 billion for 28 EFTs so I was going off a similar cost to that..
> J-10 is supposedly 41 million USD per plane, which adds up to 2.46 billion dollars but you have to add in spare parts, facilities, weapons, etc which adds up to maybe 5-6 billion?



Think cheaper. This site says J-10 export price is 41 million.That'd make it less than 2.5 billion for 60 jets.With training, spares, weapons it might be around 4 billion.

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Think cheaper. This site says J-10 export price is 41 million.That'd make it less than 2.5 billion for 60 jets.With training, spares, weapons it might be around 4 billion.



I think BAF needs to field AT LEAST 5 squadrons right?

Since the plan is to have 5 full air bases.

It has 2.5 squadrons at present.

With each squadron being 16 at present at full strength.

So lets say we keep the F-7 in service.

Replace the Mig-29.

We need 3 full squadrons of fighters or about 48 aircraft.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> I think BAF needs to field AT LEAST 5 squadrons right?
> 
> Since the plan is to have 5 full air bases.
> 
> It has 2.5 squadrons at present.
> 
> With each squadron being 16 at present at full strength.
> 
> So lets say we keep the F-7 in service.
> 
> Replace the Mig-29.
> 
> We need 3 full squadrons of fighters or about 48 aircraft.


Too bad BD won't be buying FC-1. This would be the perfect aircraft for replacing F-7s.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Too bad BD won't be buying FC-1. This would be the perfect aircraft for replacing F-7s.



Yea I agree to some extent.

But it is what it is.

Right now, my hope for BAF is that they make the correct political choice in regards to future threats from Myanmar in the short to medium term and India in the longer one.

And also develop its human capital and infrastructure which takes time to do.

I want BAF to be able to fight a war if need be on a high level.

And that is IMO, a HUGE undertaking from its present level.


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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> Too bad BD won't be buying FC-1. This would be the perfect aircraft for replacing F-7s.



Dude, FC-1 is pointless as it cannot compete equally with Rafale.
J-10C is more a peer of Rafale.

You are missing out on the geopolitical realities.


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## Philip the Arab

UKBengali said:


> Dude, FC-1 is pointless as it cannot compete equally with Rafale.
> J-10C is more a peer of Rafale.
> 
> You are missing out on the geopolitical realities.


JF-17 Block III can compete against Su-30 MKIs, Tejas, Mig-29s, Mig-21 etc that would be overkill for J-10C. AESA is a game changer in A2A combat.
I know the geopolitical reasons because of sour relations almost 50 years since 1971.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> JF-17 Block III can compete against Su-30 MKIs, Tejas, Mig-29s, Mig-21 etc that would be overkill for J-10C.
> I know the geopolitical reasons because of sour relations almost 50 years since 1971.



Realistically, at present I doubt PK would be interested in selling Block 3 and BD isn't keen on sourcing anything from PK.

Not to mention India would lose their Sh#t if BD went to Block 3 over Tejas.

LOL.

Also, there are other options available to BAF.

So, yea I don't see that happening.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Realistically, at present I doubt PK would be interested in selling Block 3 and BD isn't keen on sourcing anything from PK.
> 
> Not to mention India would lose their Sh#t if BD went to Block 3 over Tejas.
> 
> LOL.
> 
> Also, there are other options available to BAF.
> 
> So, yea I don't see that happening.



BD would not buy JF-17 Block 3 and so Pakistan not selling is moot.
Pakistan would never turn down an order for many squadrons of the fighter that would bring in billions in revenue and act as a major marketing sale for the plane.
Even JF-17 Block 3 is pointless as BD needs one Chinese fighter that can deal with Indian Rafale and that can only be J-10C, and one Western fighter to take care of Myanmar. No Western fighter can be reliable against India due to geopolitics.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> BD would not buy JF-17 Block 3 and so Pakistan not selling is moot.
> Pakistan would never turn down an order for many squadrons of the fighter that would bring in billions in revenue and act as a major marketing sale for the plane.
> Even JF-17 Block 3 is pointless as BD needs one Chinese fighter that can deal with Indian Rafale and that can only be J-10C, and one Western fighter to take care of Myanmar. No Western fighter can be reliable against India due to geopolitics.



Whats the bigger threat to you India or Myanmar?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Whats the bigger threat to you India or Myanmar?



India in the long run and Myanmar in the short to medium term.
In 10 years time no one in BD would take Myanmar seriously with an economy 5 times as large and hopefully far more powerful military.


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> I think BAF needs to field AT LEAST 5 squadrons right?
> 
> Since the plan is to have 5 full air bases.
> 
> It has 2.5 squadrons at present.
> 
> With each squadron being 16 at present at full strength.
> 
> So lets say we keep the F-7 in service.
> 
> Replace the Mig-29.
> 
> We need 3 full squadrons of fighters or about 48 aircraft.


Right.
However,F7s are going to be virtually obsolete in a few years with Mig-29s soon to follow.
We must take them out of equation.
48 jets might be enough for Myanmar. But certainly not India. For that, a layered SAM network as @Philip the Arab has suggested, along with at least 5 squadron of 4th generation aircrafts are needed.


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## Philip the Arab

UKBengali said:


> BD would not buy JF-17 Block 3 and so Pakistan not selling is moot.
> Pakistan would never turn down an order for many squadrons of the fighter that would bring in billions in revenue and act as a major marketing sale for the plane.
> Even JF-17 Block 3 is pointless as BD needs one Chinese fighter that can deal with Indian Rafale and that can only be J-10C, and one Western fighter to take care of Myanmar. No Western fighter can be reliable against India due to geopolitics.


It doesn't need a fighter against MM... Saturation attacks of hundreds of GLCMs against MMs airbases in Sittwe would disable their ability to scramble fighters against BD and their other air bases are much to far away to even reach within 50-100 KMs of BD. No clue who they could buy GLCMs from besides China but regardless it would be hard to sanction something like a missile. YAK-130s, F-7s, Mig-29s would be unrestricted by A2A fighters to go on sorties inside MM.


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## Haris Ali2140

Philip the Arab said:


> It doesn't need a fighter against MM... Saturation attacks of hundreds of GLCMs against MMs airbases in Sittwe would disable their ability to scramble fighters against BD and their other air bases are much to far away to even reach within 50-100 KMs of BD. No clue who they could buy GLCMs from besides China but regardless it would be hard to sanction something like a missile.



Does BD has any LIFT jets???


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## Philip the Arab

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Does BD has any LIFT jets???


16 YAK-130..

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Right.
> However,F7s are going to be virtually obsolete in a few years with Mig-29s soon to follow.
> We must take them out of equation.
> 48 jets might be enough for Myanmar. But certainly not India. For that, a layered SAM network as @Philip the Arab has suggested, along with at least 5 squadron of 4th generation aircrafts are needed.



I would keep the F-7 in service for the foreseeable future.

Keep in mind they were introduced around 2006 and 2013.

The Mig-29 I would scrap.

However of course, it depends on what BAF ends up buying. 

If they go Chinese or Western then the above holds true.

Different story if they go Russian.

I would focus on building strength with new fighters IN ADDITION to the existing ones.

I would not use the new fighters to replace what we are flying at first.

Keep in mind its gonna take time to build up force levels with new aircraft.

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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> It doesn't need a fighter against MM... Saturation attacks of hundreds of GLCMs against MMs airbases in Sittwe would disable their ability to scramble fighters against BD and their other air bases are much to far away to even reach within 50-100 KMs of BD. No clue who they could buy GLCMs from besides China but regardless it would be hard to sanction something like a missile. YAK-130s, F-7s, Mig-29s would be unrestricted by A2A fighters to go on sorties inside MM.



I think you are overestimating the efficiency of missiles.
Myanmar would house planes in hardened shelters and can always fly in planes from far away bases to cover losses. SAM's can only do so much.
BD needs 2-3 squadrons of a Western fighter to deal with Myanmar. Gripen E with Global Eye AWACs is my preference.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I think you are overestimating the efficiency of missiles.
> Myanmar would house planes in hardened shelters and can always fly in planes from far away bases to cover losses. SAM's can only do so much.
> BD needs 2-3 squadrons of a Western fighter to deal with Myanmar. Gripen E with Global Eye AWACs is my preference.



There is no substitute at present for a capable manned fighter force.

Off topic, this will probably be addressed (Hollywood shtyle) in the upcoming Top Gun sequel.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> There is no substitute at present for a capable manned fighter force.
> 
> Off topic, this will probably be addressed (Hollywood shtyle) in the upcoming Top Gun sequel.


Iran has BMs and CMs in place of its aging air force.



UKBengali said:


> I think you are overestimating the efficiency of missiles.
> Myanmar would house planes in hardened shelters and can always fly in planes from far away bases to cover losses. SAM's can only do so much.
> BD needs 2-3 squadrons of a Western fighter to deal with Myanmar. Gripen E with Global Eye AWACs is my preference.


A Western fighter like Gripen is prone to sanctions from the US who supplies the engine, and other parts. India buys Apaches, and other weapons from the US.
Cruise missiles destroyed most Iraqi fighters back in 90 and 03, they can be very useful especially if a long range (750 KM) one can be bought which can reach all or most of MMs strategic targets.


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## Sine Nomine

Avicenna said:


> The Mig-29 I would scrap.


Why not upgrade them to latest standard and purchase few more units?


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## Philip the Arab

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Why not upgrade them to latest standard and purchase few more units?


Indian company is the only one that wants to upgrade it after tender was floated.

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## Sine Nomine

Philip the Arab said:


> Indian company is the only one that wants to upgrade it after tender was floated.


They are just upgrading them using Russian and foreign sourced kits,on paper UPG looks a great upgrade.

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## UKBengali

@Philip the Arab 

Gripen E solely for Myanmar.
J-10C will deal with India.


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## Philip the Arab

UKBengali said:


> @Philip the Arab
> 
> Gripen E solely for Myanmar.
> J-10C will deal with India.


That will limit Gripen too much... You would have a fighter for no reason. I even think EFT may be prone to US sanctions and not suppling certain parts that may be vital.


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> I would keep the F-7 in service for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Keep in mind they were introduced around 2006 and 2013.


They're not that old of course.BGI is practically new.
However, their problem lies in their weaponry & range.None of them are BVR capable AFAIK. In a war with India or Myanmar, they'll be sitting ducks. IAF & MAF will be able to shoot them down before the F7 pilot can even see them.


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## Avicenna

MUSTAKSHAF said:


> Why not upgrade them to latest standard and purchase few more units?



That depends on what the new fighter/fighters will be.

IF BAF goes Mig-35 or Su-30/35 then yea, it makes sense to upgrade the current 8 and perhaps buy some mroe to get up a full squadron at minimal cost.

But if BAF goes J-10 then I would scrap the Mig-29 and shed myself of the Russian spares chain.

The F-7 I would keep for now as they are relatively new and capable analogous to the -PG in PAF service.


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## Philip the Arab

Petrichor said:


> They're not that old of course.BGI is practically new.
> However, their problem lies in their weaponry & range.None of them are BVR capable AFAIK. In a war with India or Myanmar, they'll be sitting ducks. IAF & MAF will be able to shoot them down before the F7 pilot can even see them.


That's why JF-17 would be the best option... It's 700 KG heavier than YAK-130 with a much, much, more robust set of weaponry than F-7. BD can try negotiating with CN as middleman and letting CN negotiate with PK to say they bought it from China and just calling it FC-1 everywhere on media, statements, social media, etc.


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> I would not use the new fighters to replace what we are flying at first.
> 
> Keep in mind its gonna take time to build up force levels with new aircraft.


This is good thinking.However, it's my belief that F-7s should only be used for bombing & training.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> That's why JF-17 would be the best option... It's 700 KG heavier than YAK-130 with a much, much, more robust set of weaponry than F-7. BD can try negotiating with CN as middleman and letting CN negotiate with PK to say they bought it from China and just calling it FC-1 everywhere on media, statements, social media, etc.



That ship has likely sailed my friend.


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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> That's why JF-17 would be the best option... It's 700 KG heavier than YAK-130 with a much, much, more robust set of weaponry than F-7. BD can try negotiating with CN as middleman and letting CN negotiate with PK to say they bought it from China and just calling it FC-1 everywhere on media, statements, social media, etc.


JF-17 block III would be an excellent choice. But I have doubts if Pakistan will export it to us.Not just because of political issues, but also because PAF has urgent need of block III jets to confront Rafale.

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## Philip the Arab

Petrichor said:


> JF-17 block III would be an excellent choice. But I have doubts if Pakistan will export it to us.Not just because of political issues, but also because PAF has urgent need of block III jets to confront Rafale.


@Bilal Khan (Quwa) 
Said they probably would...


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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> This is good thinking.However, it's my belief that F-7s should only be used for bombing & training.



Point defence in addition to ground attack.

31 F-7 is a nice little force.

But it shouldn't be your backbone in 2019.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> That ship has likely sailed my friend.


What can BD actually get then? BD is limited to J-10, Tejas, and not likely EFT.


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## Haris Ali2140

Philip the Arab said:


> @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
> Said they probably would...


Selling more units means keeping the production line alive and also lowers the cost. I don't see any reason besides political that Pakistan won't sell.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Point defence in addition to ground attack.
> 
> 31 F-7 is a nice little force.
> 
> But it shouldn't be your backbone in 2019.


Why couldn't BD just asked for integration of PL-12 for BVRAAM duties. Russia did it with Mig-21Bison.



Haris Ali2140 said:


> Selling more units means keeping the production line alive and also lowers the cost. I don't see any reason besides political that Pakistan won't sell.


Does CAC produce aircraft for PAF or just PAC?


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> But it shouldn't be your backbone in 2019.


Agreed.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> What can BD actually get then? BD is limited to J-10, Tejas, and not likely EFT.



Realistic options:

Mig-35, Su-30SME, Su-35, J-10

Somewhat realistic although I am skeptical: ex-RAF Typhoon

Pipedream: F-16, Gripen

Oh I forgot Indian dreams: Tejas

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Realistic options:
> 
> Mig-35, Su-30SME, Su-35, J-10
> 
> Somewhat realistic although I am skeptical: ex-RAF Typhoon
> 
> Pipedream: F-16, Gripen


All of those Russian aircraft are *USELESS *against India in a conflict. Russia won't think twice before sanctioning Bangladesh.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> All of those Russian aircraft are *USELESS *against India in a conflict. Russia won't think twice before sanctioning Bangladesh.



Yup.

And to be honest actual hot conflict with India is REMOTE.

And if it ever does come to that, no fighter will make a difference.

BD is toast.

But for deterrence purposes, yes a strong BAF is needed.

To at least hurt them if they ever try or more likely try to intimidate.

J-10 is the clear option in regards to India.

But that exposes you to China's interests in regards to Myanmar.

Do you see the dilemma?

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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> Why couldn't BD just asked for integration of PL-12 for BVRAAM duties. Russia did it with Mig-21Bison


To use missiles like PL-12, you'd need to change the radar of the jet I think.Not sure it'll be possible with BGIs.

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> To use missiles like PL-12, you'd need to change the radar of the jet I think.Not sure it'll be possible with BGIs.



If that was the case, BAF might as well gone for early block JF-17 back in 2013.

But that was never realistically gonna happen.


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## Haris Ali2140

Philip the Arab said:


> Why couldn't BD just asked for integration of PL-12 for BVRAAM duties. Russia did it with Mig-21Bison.
> 
> 
> Does CAC produce aircraft for PAF or just PAC?


AFAIK in the beginning some here some there. While with time all the production move to PAC.
@Dazzler


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Yup.
> 
> And to be honest actual hot conflict with India is REMOTE.
> 
> And if it ever does come to that, no fighter will make a difference.
> 
> BD is toast.
> 
> But for deterrence purposes, yes a strong BAF is needed.
> 
> To at least hurt them if they ever try or more likely try to intimidate.
> 
> J-10 is the clear option in regards to India.
> 
> But that exposes you to China's interests in regards to Myanmar.
> 
> Do you see the dilemma?


Yes, I do see the dilemma. If BD got J-10s then it would take at least a few months at which point they would barely be able to get off the ground. A conflict with MM will never last that long and will likely be like Kargil war in terms of intensity. I disagree that BD is toast if they can invest in GLCMs, long range MLRS, and precision weapons that can be used against Indian army, air, and naval bases right when a conflict starts thus cutting their ability to do anything for a while and allowing BD's J-10s to do a lot of damage to India and make victory difficult.


Haris Ali2140 said:


> AFAIK in the beginning some here some there. While with time all the production move to PAC.
> @Dazzler


Can't BD just tell China they want a lot of planes and produce them all at CAC? That would allow PAC to produce Block 3s at the same time for PAF while CAC is producing Block 3s for BAF.



Petrichor said:


> To use missiles like PL-12, you'd need to change the radar of the jet I think.Not sure it'll be possible with BGIs.



F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.)
Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70–75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Yes, I do see the dilemma. If BD got J-10s then it would take at least a few months at which point they would barely be able to get off the ground. A conflict with MM will never last that long and will likely be like Kargil war in terms of intensity. I disagree that BD is toast if they can invest in GLCMs, long range MLRS, and precision weapons that can be used against Indian army, air, and naval bases right when a conflict starts thus cutting their ability to do anything for a while and allowing BD's J-10s to do a lot of damage to India and make victory difficult.
> 
> Can't BD just tell China they want a lot of planes and produce them all at CAC? That would allow PAC to produce Block 3s at the same time for PAF CAC is producing Block 3s for BAF.
> 
> 
> 
> F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.)
> Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70–75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .



No SD-10 in BAF inventory.

Also, I have never seen an SD-10 on an F-7.

I have however seen an SD-10 near a Myanmar JF-17.







Something to think about BAF!

Hurry up and get something!

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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> Yes, I do see the dilemma. If BD got J-10s then it would take at least a few months at which point they would barely be able to get off the ground. A conflict with MM will never last that long and will likely be like Kargil war in terms of intensity. I disagree that BD is toast if they can invest in GLCMs, long range MLRS, and precision weapons that can be used against Indian army, air, and naval bases right when a conflict starts thus cutting their ability to do anything for a while and allowing BD's J-10s to do a lot of damage to India and make victory difficult.
> 
> Can't BD just tell China they want a lot of planes and produce them all at CAC? That would allow PAC to produce Block 3s at the same time for PAF CAC is producing Block 3s for BAF.
> 
> 
> 
> F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.)
> Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70–75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .


That's news for me.If our BGIs are really capable of firing PL-12, I'll be delighted & vote to keep them in active service till 2030.

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## Haris Ali2140

Philip the Arab said:


> Yes, I do see the dilemma. If BD got J-10s then it would take at least a few months at which point they would barely be able to get off the ground. A conflict with MM will never last that long and will likely be like Kargil war in terms of intensity. I disagree that BD is toast if they can invest in GLCMs, long range MLRS, and precision weapons that can be used against Indian army, air, and naval bases right when a conflict starts thus cutting their ability to do anything for a while and allowing BD's J-10s to do a lot of damage to India and make victory difficult.
> 
> Can't BD just tell China they won't a lot of planes and produce them all at CAC? That would allow PAC to produce Block 3s at the same time for PAF CAC is producing Block 3s for BAF.



Yes it can happen. Block 2s are being overhauled by both CAC and PAC currently at the same time. Some parts of jets sold to Myanmar were build in PAC while assembly took place in CAC.

Regarding procurement my 2 cents:

The most beneficial route for BAF will be J-10 and JF-17. J-10 will provide top notch radars and more payload while JF-17 can work as LIFT and also as a light weight fighter with similar weapon inventory to J-10. If they go for western platform it will cause trouble in syncing Chinese AD and western jets and they will have same problem as India as they shot down their own chopper during the middle of a conflict.

And to all those saying that JF-17s secret will be released to India. There is no secret in Jf-17 that India doesn't know. The only thing important in it will the radar, EW and weapons and all these belong to China. So Bangladesh wouldn't do it.

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## Philip the Arab

Solution...

L-15 with SD-10s


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Solution...
> 
> L-15 with SD-10s



No SD-10 in the pic. 

Doubt L-15 can mount it.

Also L-15 is basically the same role at Yak-130.

Edit: Nevermind, I see the second pic.


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> No SD-10 in the pic.
> 
> Doubt L-15 can mount it.
> 
> Also L-15 is basically the same role at Yak-130.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind, I see the second pic.


This could work, but will probably take a good amount of time and be less battle tested than JF-17.


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## Sehnsucht

Haris Ali2140 said:


> Yes it can happen. Block 2s are being overhauled by both CAC and PAC currently at the same time. Some parts of jets sold to Myanmar were build in PAC while assembly took place in CAC.
> 
> Regarding procurement my 2 cents:
> 
> The most beneficial route for BAF will be J-10 and JF-17. J-10 will provide top notch radars and more payload while JF-17 can work as LIFT and also as a light weight fighter with similar weapon inventory to J-10. If they go for western platform it will cause trouble in syncing Chinese AD and western jets and they will have same problem as India as they shot down their own chopper during the middle of a conflict.
> 
> And to all those saying that JF-17s secret will be released to India. There is no secret in Jf-17 that India doesn't know. The only thing important in it will the radar, EW and weapons and all these belong to China. So Bangladesh wouldn't do it.


Problem with getting both J-10 & JF-17 is that China might stop supplying spares & ammunition in case of war against Myanmar.
Pakistan should indigenize every single parts of Thunder including the radar,softwares,EW & weapons.

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## Haris Ali2140

Petrichor said:


> Problem with getting both J-10 & JF-17 is that China might stop supplying spares & ammunition in case of war against Myanmar.
> Pakistan should indigenize every single parts of Thunder including the radar,softwares,EW & weapons.


Oh bummer!!!!!!

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## Philip the Arab

Petrichor said:


> Problem with getting both J-10 & JF-17 is that China might stop supplying spares & ammunition in case of war against Myanmar.
> Pakistan should indigenize every single parts of Thunder including the radar,softwares,EW & weapons.


A war with Myanmar will be a skirmish, it will last at most three-four months and it would take time for J-10s, and JF-17s to not be usable where the conflict would have ended. Relations with China would patch up and it would be best if BD could take out MMs aircraft and move their capabilities 10-15 years back.



Avicenna said:


> No SD-10 in the pic.
> 
> Doubt L-15 can mount it.
> 
> Also L-15 is basically the same role at Yak-130.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind, I see the second pic.


IMO, L-15B would have been a way better purchase than YAK-130... SD-10s with good radar are game changers and can take on most of IAF, and BAF aircraft.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> A war with Myanmar will be a skirmish, it will last at most three-four months and it would take time for J-10s, and JF-17s to not be usable where the conflict would have ended. Relations with China would patch up and it would be best if BD could take out MMs aircraft and move their capabilities 10-15 years back.



Not sure about that.

But anyways, you can see the political complexities of this choice.

There is no clear path.

Perhaps that is the reason for the delay.

The Rohingya situation changed the political equation of the previous plan's of BAF.

They were probably gonna go for Russian (i.e. Yak-130 prior to Flankers) and Chinese aircraft and may still do so.

But it gave them pause to think about things.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Not sure about that.
> 
> But anyways, you can see the political complexities of this choice.
> 
> There is no clear path.
> 
> Perhaps that is the reason for the delay.
> 
> The Rohingya situation changed the political equation of the previous plan's of BAF.
> 
> They were probably gonna go for Russian (i.e. Yak-130 prior to Flankers) and Chinese aircraft and may still do so.
> 
> But it gave them pause to think about things.


Ok, L-15Bs with J-10s would be a great combo for use against India and Myanmar. L-15 performs similar role to JF-17, and J-10 performs air superiority role. L-15Bs, and J-10s are more than enough for a short conflict with MM which it will be, and not a full blown war. MM has old Mig-29s, old Q-7s, and, old F-7s that can't compete with J-10s or L-15Bs and would be dispatched relatively quickly. Chinese sanctions will take at least a few months to kick in at which point the conflict will be over. Intl community will negotiate and peace treaty will be signed.



Bottom part isn't for you specifically

The modern cockpit is covered by a large glass canopy and offers space, comfort and superior all-round field of vision for the pilots. The aircraft is also equipped with a three-axis digital fly-by wire system, which allows the pilots to simulate the flight characteristics of some of the most modern fighter jets.

The extended nose section of L-15B differentiates it from the L-15 trainer. The nose section houses a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) radar. *The X-band PESA radar can guide air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles to a maximum range of 111km.*


The trainer integrates a radar warning receiver (RWR) on the vertical stabiliser. The nose also features fin antennae for an identification friend or foe (IFF) system. The L-15B can also be equipped with dedicated electronic warfare jamming pods.

The advanced avionics aboard the JL-15B ensure the student pilots to handle the complex digital cockpits on modern Chinese fighters.

The aircraft can carry a weapon load of 3,500kg across nine hard-points. Each wing holds three hard-points, while each wing tip accommodates a single hard-point. The under-fuselage of the aircraft also holds a hard-point for weapons carriage.

The L-15B can be armed with a range of weapon systems such as the PL-10 infrared-homing, short-range, air-to-air missiles, *PL-12 active, radar-guided, beyond visual-range, air-to-air missiles*, and PL-8 infrared-guided, short-range, air-to-air missiles, as well as LT-2 laser and LS-6 precision-guided bombs.

The L-15B combat trainer is powered by two Ivchenko Progress AI-222-25F turbofan engines with afterburner. The engines are equipped with a full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) system.

The power-plant provides a* maximum speed of Mach 1.4 *and an operational range of 2,600km, which can be further extended with the integration of fuel drop tanks.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Ok, L-15Bs with J-10s would be a great combo for use against India and Myanmar. L-15 performs similar role to JF-17, and J-10 performs air superiority role. L-15Bs, and J-10s are more than enough for a short conflict with MM which it will be, and not a full blown war. MM has old Mig-29s, old Q-7s, and, old F-7s that can't compete with J-10s or L-15Bs and would be dispatched relatively quickly. Chinese sanctions will take at least a few months to kick in at which point the conflict will be over.
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom part isn't for you specifically
> 
> The modern cockpit is covered by a large glass canopy and offers space, comfort and superior all-round field of vision for the pilots. The aircraft is also equipped with a three-axis digital fly-by wire system, which allows the pilots to simulate the flight characteristics of some of the most modern fighter jets.
> 
> The extended nose section of L-15B differentiates it from the L-15 trainer. The nose section houses a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) radar. The X-band PESA radar can guide air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles to a maximum range of 111km.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trainer integrates a radar warning receiver (RWR) on the vertical stabiliser. The nose also features fin antennae for an identification friend or foe (IFF) system. The L-15B can also be equipped with dedicated electronic warfare jamming pods.
> 
> The advanced avionics aboard the JL-15B ensure the student pilots to handle the complex digital cockpits on modern Chinese fighters.
> 
> The aircraft can carry a weapon load of 3,500kg across nine hard-points. Each wing holds three hard-points, while each wing tip accommodates a single hard-point. The under-fuselage of the aircraft also holds a hard-point for weapons carriage.
> 
> The L-15B can be armed with a range of weapon systems such as the PL-10 infrared-homing, short-range, air-to-air missiles, PL-12 active, radar-guided, beyond visual-range, air-to-air missiles, and PL-8 infrared-guided, short-range, air-to-air missiles, as well as LT-2 laser and LS-6 precision-guided bombs.
> 
> The L-15B combat trainer is powered by two Ivchenko Progress AI-222-25F turbofan engines with afterburner. The engines are equipped with a full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) system.
> 
> The power-plant provides a maximum speed of Mach 1.4 and an operational range of 2,600km, which can be further extended with the integration of fuel drop tanks.



If my main short term threat is backed by the people I am buying weapons from, I can't make those assumptions regarding how they will behave and give them the benefit of the doubt.

I have to assume their worst.

And that means a non-Chinese platform.

That is for Myanmar.

For India, this is a more remote possibility and any acquisition would be to build a longer term capability for mainly deterrence purposes.

The problem is Russians will sell to anyone with money and for some reason they seem to be giving Myanmar cheaper prices.

And Western fighters are so expensive.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> If my main short term threat is backed by the people I am buying weapons from, I can't make those assumptions regarding how they will behave and given them the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I have to assume their worst.
> 
> And that means a non-Chinese platform.
> 
> That is for Myanmar.
> 
> For India, this is a more remote possibility and any acquisition would be to build a longer term capability for mainly deterrence purposes.
> 
> The problem is Russians will sell to anyone with money and for some reason they seem to be giving Myanmar cheaper prices.
> 
> And Western fighters are so expensive.


I think buying 8 more Mig-29s from Russia in an updated form (8 SMTs and upgrading 8 in service) would be more than enough for a small conflict with Myanmar. Investing in cruise missiles, and long range MLRS would be useful for taking out airbases from far away bases and allowing Mig-29SMTs to take out stragglers, and take out army formations, etc without having to deal with enemy combatants.


Realistically you only need to cover the border areas with MM with SAMs because MAF would never risk overflying India in a conflict and being shot down by IAF.

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## Dazzler

Philip the Arab said:


> Yes, I do see the dilemma. If BD got J-10s then it would take at least a few months at which point they would barely be able to get off the ground. A conflict with MM will never last that long and will likely be like Kargil war in terms of intensity. I disagree that BD is toast if they can invest in GLCMs, long range MLRS, and precision weapons that can be used against Indian army, air, and naval bases right when a conflict starts thus cutting their ability to do anything for a while and allowing BD's J-10s to do a lot of damage to India and make victory difficult.
> 
> Can't BD just tell China they want a lot of planes and produce them all at CAC? That would allow PAC to produce Block 3s at the same time for PAF while CAC is producing Block 3s for BAF.
> 
> 
> 
> F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.)
> Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70–75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .



Making things up out of thin air. Klj6/ sy80 doesn't offer bvr engagement about 50km.

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## Philip the Arab

Dazzler said:


> Making things up out of thin air. Klj6/ sy80 doesn't offer but engagement about 50km.


I didn't make that up... It's on Wikipedia but I will go check sources.

I guess you are right. It should still be able to fire PL-12 though.

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## El Sidd

Petrichor said:


> @Retired Troll



Go hunt some hilsa and honey in the sundabans for your Indian masters

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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> That will limit Gripen too much... You would have a fighter for no reason. I even think EFT may be prone to US sanctions and not suppling certain parts that may be vital.





Why you say so?

BAF will always need a fighter that can deal with the 50+ or so 4/4+ generation planes that Myanmar will have.

Even 2 squadrons(36) of Gripen Es with 2 Global Eyes is sufficient to deal with the threat. BD has a 320 billion US dollar economy growing at more than 8% a year(and expected to stay this way till 2030) and could reasonably afford the 6-7 billion US dollar cost of this.

A larger amount(8 squadrons) of the cheaper J-10Cs with 4 KJ-500s will provide ample deterrence against India. I guess the cost of 8 squadrons of J-10Cs with the KJ-500s will come to some 15-16 billion US dollars. The cost will be spread out between now and up to around 2035(when the last fighters are paid for) and so should be affordable.


@Avicenna - Correction as BD official defence budget is 4 billion US dollars a year but this does not include arms acquisitions from abroad and so we are looking at around 4.5 billion US dollars a year in total. Remember BD defence budget is keeping in line with GDP growth and so growing at 7-8% a year in real terms.

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## El Sidd

Petrichor said:


> https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangl...end-500-tons-of-ilish-to-india-for-durga-puja



Here is a Sardine for your trouble. Good boy


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## Avicenna

@Umair Nawaz

I agree in the sense that Bangladesh certainly has an ever increasing financial capacity to procure more weapons.

The economy IS doing well.

I personally haven't been in Bangladesh in over 20 years but my friends and family tell me how its apparent that there is new money.

And the public news media seem to be corroborating this with numbers of GDP and general praise.

And it is well known BD spends about 1.2 percent on its defense. (Far less than what is average in South Asia)

So yea, if BD wanted too, at this point it could afford FAR more than it is doing.

This was not the case 10 years ago.

And if things go according to projections, apparently, things will continue until 2030 as @UKBengali has stated.

So the thoughts that BD is poor or can't afford to buy a sizable number of 4+ gen fighters in the present time is likely incorrect.

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## UmairNawaz

UKBengali said:


> Why you say so?
> 
> BAF will always need a fighter that can deal with the 50+ or so 4/4+ generation planes that Myanmar will have.
> 
> Even 2 squadrons(36) of Gripen Es with 2 Global Eyes is sufficient to deal with the threat. BD has a 320 billion US dollar economy growing at more than 8% a year(and expected to stay this way till 2030) and could reasonably afford the 6-7 billion US dollar cost of this.
> 
> A larger amount(8 squadrons) of the cheaper J-10Cs with 4 KJ-500s will provide ample deterrence against India. I guess the cost of 8 squadrons of J-10Cs with the KJ-500s will come to some 15-16 billion US dollars. The cost will be spread out between now and up to around 2035(when the last fighters are paid for) and so should be affordable.
> 
> 
> @Avicenna - Correction as BD official defence budget is 4 billion US dollars a year but this does not include arms acquisitions from abroad and so we are looking at around 4.5 billion US dollars a year in total. Remember BD defence budget is keeping in line with GDP growth and so growing at 7-8% a year in real terms.


I will start with your part about aircraft in Myanmar service...


MiG-29 Russia multirole SE/SM/UB -31 but ten B variants used for training
*Su-30SME* -6 on order
Attack A-5 -21
F-7M -21 licensed built MiG-21
F-6- 1
JF-17 Thunder China / Pakistan multirole 6+10 on order

Ok, so that is 21 MiG-29s, 6 Su-30SMEs, and 16 JF-17s which adds up to 43 fighters with 4+ generation capabilities. The fighters will be spread out throughout MM so I don't think a majority of them will be a threat early in the war considering only 1 base can reach BD and that is in Sittwe. I expect at most 20 4+ fighters in Sittwe that are within striking distance of BD, and other fighters too far to make a impact until a few weeks.



36 Gripen-E is a good idea for BD right now I agree and I agree that price would probably be 5 to 6 billion USD. Those fighters could also be used against India for at least a few months before sanctions take effect depending on spare parts, and weapons in BAF service. Meteor would be a must have as well as cruise missiles, and PGMs. I also agree that GlobalEye could be bought in 1-2 units for a billion USD or so.







I agree with your J-10 statement in full... 144 fighters or so would put BD in top 10 air force or so. I do think a regional alliance with Pakistan and China should be made with the sourness with Pakistan forgotten about.

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## Avicenna

UmairNawaz said:


> I will start with your part about aircraft in Myanmar service...
> 
> 
> MiG-29 Russia multirole SE/SM/UB -31 but ten B variants used for training
> *Su-30SME* -6 on order
> Attack A-5 -21
> F-7M -21 licensed built MiG-21
> F-6- 1
> JF-17 Thunder China / Pakistan multirole 6+10 on order
> 
> Ok, so that is 21 MiG-29s, 6 Su-30SMEs, and 16 JF-17s which adds up to 43 fighters with 4+ generation capabilities. The fighters will be spread out throughout MM so I don't think a majority of them will be a threat early in the war considering only 1 base can reach BD and that is in Sittwe. I expect at most 20 4+ fighters in Sittwe that are within striking distance of BD, and other fighters too far to make a impact until a few weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 36 Gripen-E is a good idea for BD right now I agree and I agree that price would probably be 5 to 6 billion USD. Those fighters could also be used against India for at least a few months before sanctions take effect depending on spare parts, and weapons in BAF service. Meteor would be a must have as well as cruise missiles, and PGMs. I also agree that GlobalEye could be bought in 1-2 units for a billion USD or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with your J-10 statement in full... 144 fighters or so would put BD in top 10 air force or so. I do think a regional alliance with Pakistan and China should be made with the sourness with Pakistan forgotten about.



Agree with your analysis.

I tell you the most important thing that has to happen is the realization that India is a threat.

And Bangladesh and Pakistan on either side of India is a problem for them.

I know that they know this and thus have embarked to neuter Bangladesh by non military means.

The current politicians in BD have allowed this to happen, at least apparently.

But keep in mind in the past, there were governments in BD that were closer to Pakistan and this may be the case again in the future.

For now, its my hope, that the BD armed forces build its capability to meet the challenges coming from Myanmar first.

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## Sehnsucht

UmairNawaz said:


> I do think a regional alliance with Pakistan should be made with the sourness with Pakistan forgotten about.


Can't stress this enough.

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## UmairNawaz

@Avicenna 
@UKBengali 
@Petrichor 
If a conflict with MM happened what would be the cause? I assume it would be Rohingya but unsure.


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## Avicenna

UmairNawaz said:


> @Avicenna
> @UKBengali
> @Petrichor
> If a conflict with MM happened what would be the cause? I assume it would be Rohingya but unsure.



it would probably be because Myanmar did something of an aggressive nature and BD HAD to respond.

whether that’s rohingya related or off shore EEZ related who knows.

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## UmairNawaz

Avicenna said:


> it would probably be because Myanmar did something of an aggressive nature and BD HAD to respond.
> 
> whether that’s rohingya related or off shore EEZ related who knows.


BD is in no condition to respond for at least a few years. Agree? They should be ready by 2030 though I digress.


Also, is FM-90 a good system for shooting down MMs aircraft?


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## Avicenna

UmairNawaz said:


> BD is in no condition to respond for at least a few years. Agree? They should be ready by 2030 though I digress.
> 
> 
> Also, is FM-90 a good system for shooting down MMs aircraft?



IMO BD is woefully unprepared for a confrontation with Myanmar.

Others here may disagree.

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## UmairNawaz

Avicenna said:


> IMO BD is woefully unprepared for a confrontation with Myanmar.
> 
> Others here may disagree.


And do you know how good FM-90 SAM is against MM aircraft? It is apart of BD air force after all.


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## Avicenna

UmairNawaz said:


> And do you know how good FM-90 SAM is against MM aircraft? It is apart of BD air force after all.



honestly no idea.

the only way really is to actually see how it performs in action.

anything else is theoretical.

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## UmairNawaz

Avicenna said:


> honestly no idea.
> 
> the only way really is to actually see how it performs in action.
> 
> anything else is theoretical.


If you don't mind, do you think BD needs heavy fighter like Su-30?


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## Avicenna

UmairNawaz said:


> If you don't mind, do you think BD needs heavy fighter like Su-30?



i think you can make an arguement for it if the need is for support for the BN in the BOB.

the range, dual engines and payload are obvious advantages.

IMO the vast majority of the BAF needs to be an adequate number of technologically advanced single seat multi role aircraft sourced from a “politically safe or at least safest source”

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## UmairNawaz

Avicenna said:


> i think you can make an arguement for it if the need is for support for the BN in the BOB.
> 
> the range, dual engines and payload are obvious advantages.
> 
> IMO the vast majority of the BAF needs to be an adequate number of technologically advanced single seat multi role aircraft sourced from a “politically safe or at least safest source”


Are you 100% that CN will support MM in a conflict with BD?


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## Avicenna

UmairNawaz said:


> Are you 100% that CN will support MM in a conflict with BD?



most likely given what’s happened.

China has its interests and this will obviously effect any scenario between bd and Myanmar.

they don’t want war between the two but probably don’t care about the rohingya and probably tacitly have approval for Myanmar yo do what they did without any regard to the effect it would have in Bangladesh.

there are 1 million refugees in Bangladesh.

consider the strain on BD.

and consider that scenario and the outcry that would have resulted had this been in Europe or elsewhere where people give a damn.

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## mb444

UmairNawaz said:


> Are you 100% that CN will support MM in a conflict with BD?



As far as one is concerned china has already directly supported MM against BD. They have assisted and and continue to sheild MM at the UN.

Where defense is concerned BD should disengage with China. I do not believe china would provide any assistance either against MM or India. 

BD needs to chart its own course. Strategically west is the only feasible option in that BD would have to compromise the least.

BD should focus areas such as economics, education, tourism etc when it comes to china. However strategically our interest do not align and as such we need to downgrade our relationship immediately. A friend that has not stood with us is no friend. 

This is perfectly fine, every country has its own priorities. China recalibrated its priorities and deprioritised BD in favor of MM. BD is not lacking in options and must deprioritise China. The fact is this process has already started and has been reflected in key descisions being delayed.

Bottom line is BD has no friends. It must stand on its own. Fortunately we are very resilient and numerous.

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## The Ronin



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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


>



This is what i like to see!


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## GriffinsRule

The jet with the target banner has no flag or Sqn marking?


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## polanski

Discuss, Discuss and Discuss. Here are most ludicrous excuses Bangladeshi talk about:

Bangladesh will order aircraft after the election
If Sheikh Hasina win the election
Shody budget
If Narendra Modi approves
America will sanction if Bangladesh buys fighter jets from Russia
China didn't offer line of credit
Russia played politics during MRCA
India blocked Bangladeshi attempts to procure fighter jets
Chinese engines problem
Sheik hasina has menopause
The western countries do not want to supply Fighting aircraft to Bangladesh
Donald Trump is bad and arrogant
Vladimir Putin is a tyrant
Narendra Modi is a dictator
China and Russia veto in UN against Bangladesh proposal to condemn Myanmar
China supports Myanmar
Russia supports Myanmar


Look at above, Bangladesh failed to take responsibility and accountability of the issue. Blame everyone except themselves. Reality is Bangladesh Air Force is a band of morons.

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## mb444

polanski said:


> Discuss, Discuss and Discuss. Here are most ludicrous excuses Bangladeshi talk about:
> 
> Bangladesh will order aircraft after the election
> If Sheikh Hasina win the election
> Shody budget
> If Narendra Modi approves
> America will sanction if Bangladesh buys fighter jets from Russia
> China didn't offer line of credit
> Russia played politics during MRCA
> India blocked Bangladeshi attempts to procure fighter jets
> Chinese engines problem
> Sheik hasina has menopause
> The western countries do not want to supply Fighting aircraft to Bangladesh
> Donald Trump is bad and arrogant
> Vladimir Putin is a tyrant
> Narendra Modi is a dictator
> China and Russia veto in UN against Bangladesh proposal to condemn Myanmar
> China supports Myanmar
> Russia supports Myanmar
> 
> 
> Look at above, Bangladesh failed to take responsibility and accountability of the issue. Blame everyone except themselves. Reality is Bangladesh Air Force is a band of morons.



Your assertion is inaccurate. BDs fully accept BAFs failure and mismanagement. Other issues are discussed as additional reasons for its woeful performance but no one is in any doubt the reasons lies with its inept management.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Discuss, Discuss and Discuss. Here are most ludicrous excuses Bangladeshi talk about:
> 
> Bangladesh will order aircraft after the election
> If Sheikh Hasina win the election
> Shody budget
> If Narendra Modi approves
> America will sanction if Bangladesh buys fighter jets from Russia
> China didn't offer line of credit
> Russia played politics during MRCA
> India blocked Bangladeshi attempts to procure fighter jets
> Chinese engines problem
> Sheik hasina has menopause
> The western countries do not want to supply Fighting aircraft to Bangladesh
> Donald Trump is bad and arrogant
> Vladimir Putin is a tyrant
> Narendra Modi is a dictator
> China and Russia veto in UN against Bangladesh proposal to condemn Myanmar
> China supports Myanmar
> Russia supports Myanmar
> 
> 
> Look at above, Bangladesh failed to take responsibility and accountability of the issue. Blame everyone except themselves. Reality is Bangladesh Air Force is a band of morons.



Thanks Ryan Smith.


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## Beast

mb444 said:


> As far as one is concerned china has already directly supported MM against BD. They have assisted and and continue to sheild MM at the UN.
> 
> Where defense is concerned BD should disengage with China. I do not believe china would provide any assistance either against MM or India.
> 
> BD needs to chart its own course. Strategically west is the only feasible option in that BD would have to compromise the least.
> 
> BD should focus areas such as economics, education, tourism etc when it comes to china. However strategically our interest do not align and as such we need to downgrade our relationship immediately. A friend that has not stood with us is no friend.
> 
> This is perfectly fine, every country has its own priorities. China recalibrated its priorities and deprioritised BD in favor of MM. BD is not lacking in options and must deprioritise China. The fact is this process has already started and has been reflected in key descisions being delayed.
> 
> Bottom line is BD has no friends. It must stand on its own. Fortunately we are very resilient and numerous.


 
China never choose Myanmar but becos the important oil line from China to Myanmar is at rakhine state. That is our lifeline. It will be protected at all cost. If the Bangladesh share a border with China and oil line is built at there, of cos we will protect our interest but unfortunately, sorry BD. You don't have border with China which makes you loose out. 

Western is not interested to help BD develop. Their project fee are very expensive and overprice. They just want to leech as much as possible from any infrastructure project you work with them. It will be the same as military procurement. While China is different, some of the military deal will seen as expanding China influence and steep discount given or tie tiej infrastructure deal to keep price low. BD do not have much choice since you are still a USD300 billion economy.

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## Imran Khan

polanski said:


> Discuss, Discuss and Discuss. Here are most ludicrous excuses Bangladeshi talk about:
> 
> Bangladesh will order aircraft after the election
> If Sheikh Hasina win the election
> Shody budget
> If Narendra Modi approves
> America will sanction if Bangladesh buys fighter jets from Russia
> China didn't offer line of credit
> Russia played politics during MRCA
> India blocked Bangladeshi attempts to procure fighter jets
> Chinese engines problem
> Sheik hasina has menopause
> The western countries do not want to supply Fighting aircraft to Bangladesh
> Donald Trump is bad and arrogant
> Vladimir Putin is a tyrant
> Narendra Modi is a dictator
> China and Russia veto in UN against Bangladesh proposal to condemn Myanmar
> China supports Myanmar
> Russia supports Myanmar
> 
> 
> Look at above, Bangladesh failed to take responsibility and accountability of the issue. Blame everyone except themselves. Reality is Bangladesh Air Force is a band of morons.


since last 2 decades they have favorite time pass of window shopping

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## Sehnsucht

Beast said:


> China never choose Myanmar but becos the important oil line from China to Myanmar is at rakhine state. That is our lifeline. It will be protected at all cost. If the Bangladesh share a border with China and oil line is built at there, of cos we will protect our interest but unfortunately, sorry BD. You don't have border with China which makes you loose out.
> 
> Western is not interested to help BD develop. Their project fee are very expensive and overprice. They just want to leech as much as possible from any infrastructure project you work with them. It will be the same as military procurement. While China is different, some of the military deal will seen as expanding China influence and steep discount given or tie tiej infrastructure deal to keep price low. BD do not have much choice since you are still a USD300 billion economy.


Myanmar is more important geopolitically than Bangladesh to China no doubt.We Bangladeshis understand this & don't have any bad feelings against China for it.
However, it's your wholehearted support for the savage junta that gave rise to anti China sentiments in BD.
China could have reined in Myanmar in the Rohingya issue.You have that influence.
That would have improved your image not just in BD & the Muslim world, but also all over the world.People would have looked to China as a mediator, a counter against imperialistic west led by US.

But you did nothing & instead supported a barbaric regime while they killed, raped & tortured their own countrymen.

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Myanmar is more important geopolitically than Bangladesh to China no doubt.We Bangladeshis understand this & don't have any bad feelings against China for it.
> However, it's your wholehearted support for the savage junta that gave rise to anti China sentiments in BD.
> China could have reined in Myanmar in the Rohingya issue.You have that influence.
> That would have improved your image not just in BD & the Muslim world, but also all over the world.People would have looked to China as a mediator, a counter against imperialistic west led by US.
> 
> But you did nothing & instead supported a barbaric regime while they killed, raped & tortured their own countrymen.



Yea maybe so about China.

But they are protecting their interests.

What is Bangladesh doing about its?

So far BD has failed miserably.

In this world, might makes right.

Unless BD develops its military capability, it will have little to no relevance in the world.

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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> Yea maybe so about China.
> 
> But they are protecting their interests.
> 
> What is Bangladesh doing about its?
> 
> So far BD has failed miserably.
> 
> In this world, might makes right.
> 
> Unless BD develops its military capability, it will have little to no relevance in the world.


China could protect it's interest AND rein in Myanmar.But refused to do so & was against BD in every step in this issue.

On BD, we have failed because of our ineptitude & idiotic views regarding foreign relations & will probably continue to fail if current trend continues.
BD needs to introspect hard & question the choices it made that led to it currently standing alone.

And may I just say what a bullshit philosophy "Friendship to all, malice to none" is in current world?
Instead it should be "Speak softly & carry a big stick."

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> China could protect it's interest AND rein in Myanmar.But refused to do so & was against BD in every step in this issue.
> 
> On BD, we have failed because of our ineptitude & idiotic views regarding foreign relations & will probably continue to fail if current trend continues.
> BD needs to introspect hard & question the choices it made that led to it currently standing alone.
> 
> And may I just say what a bullshit philosophy "Friendship to all, malice to none" is in current world?
> Instead it should be "Speak softly & carry a big stick."



My only reference point are uncles that I have met growing up and the useless politics they do with each other in the NY area.

I can only imagine its the same way in Bangladesh and extrapolate this further into the national and international level.

I have met Bengalis who are super smart and capable.

It would be nice to have those types of individuals in important roles especially related to domestic and international policy.

But I fear nepotism and corruption determine who fulfill those roles rather than aptitude.

And thus we have the results we all see.

BD foreign policy is di#kless.

And I wonder what the hell Hasina and AL is thinking.

India is not a friend.

Are they too clever or that stupid and blind?

As for China, there isn't a whole lot BD can do.

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## mb444

Beast said:


> China never choose Myanmar but becos the important oil line from China to Myanmar is at rakhine state. That is our lifeline. It will be protected at all cost. If the Bangladesh share a border with China and oil line is built at there, of cos we will protect our interest but unfortunately, sorry BD. You don't have border with China which makes you loose out.
> 
> Western is not interested to help BD develop. Their project fee are very expensive and overprice. They just want to leech as much as possible from any infrastructure project you work with them. It will be the same as military procurement. While China is different, some of the military deal will seen as expanding China influence and steep discount given or tie tiej infrastructure deal to keep price low. BD do not have much choice since you are still a USD300 billion economy.



BD understands China reasons and similarly China would understand as BD recalibrates its position. I would expect downgrading in strategic relationship.

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## Avicenna

*Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
7 hrs · 
The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a 10.4% increase in the budgetary allocation for FY2019-20 as compared to the previous year’s budget to BDT 32,101 crore.

https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-defence-budget-increa…/




DEFSECA.COM

Bangladesh defence budget increased over 10%, special allocations availed | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a…


8080

1 Comment1 Share
LikeCommentShare







*Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
13 hrs · 
The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD).

https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-mrca-and-mr…/




DEFSECA.COM

Bangladesh Air Force MRCA and MRSAM deals shortly | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD). Moreover the air force is also awarding a contract for LY-80 Medium Range Surface to Air Missile Systems (MRSAM) to Aer ....

https://www.facebook.com/defseca/

Any truth to any of this?


----------



## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 7 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a 10.4% increase in the budgetary allocation for FY2019-20 as compared to the previous year’s budget to BDT 32,101 crore.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-defence-budget-increa…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh defence budget increased over 10%, special allocations availed | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a…
> 
> 
> 8080
> 
> 1 Comment1 Share
> LikeCommentShare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 13 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD).
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-mrca-and-mr…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force MRCA and MRSAM deals shortly | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD). Moreover the air force is also awarding a contract for LY-80 Medium Range Surface to Air Missile Systems (MRSAM) to Aer ....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/defseca/
> 
> Any truth to any of this?


Increased budget -yes
MRSAM - Yes
Typhoons - Meh

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 7 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a 10.4% increase in the budgetary allocation for FY2019-20 as compared to the previous year’s budget to BDT 32,101 crore.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-defence-budget-increa…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh defence budget increased over 10%, special allocations availed | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a…
> 
> 
> 8080
> 
> 1 Comment1 Share
> LikeCommentShare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 13 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD).
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-mrca-and-mr…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force MRCA and MRSAM deals shortly | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD). Moreover the air force is also awarding a contract for LY-80 Medium Range Surface to Air Missile Systems (MRSAM) to Aer ....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/defseca/
> 
> Any truth to any of this?





Arthur said:


> Increased budget -yes
> MRSAM - Yes
> Typhoons - Meh




Although two sources are saying we will get tranche1 F2 block and Marshall ADG will get the modification contract, it's better if we wait for official confirmation. Lots of news were published before, nothing came true. And i thought we already ordered LY-80. Wonder why they are talking about it again. Feels like something will really happen this year.

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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 7 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a 10.4% increase in the budgetary allocation for FY2019-20 as compared to the previous year’s budget to BDT 32,101 crore.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-defence-budget-increa…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh defence budget increased over 10%, special allocations availed | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a…
> 
> 
> 8080
> 
> 1 Comment1 Share
> LikeCommentShare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 13 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD).
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-mrca-and-mr…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force MRCA and MRSAM deals shortly | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD). Moreover the air force is also awarding a contract for LY-80 Medium Range Surface to Air Missile Systems (MRSAM) to Aer ....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/defseca/
> 
> Any truth to any of this?


Defseca is the new version of BDMillitary.
Might be true according to some rumours I have heard.However, I'd still take it with a grain of salt.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 7 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a 10.4% increase in the budgetary allocation for FY2019-20 as compared to the previous year’s budget to BDT 32,101 crore.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-defence-budget-increa…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh defence budget increased over 10%, special allocations availed | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a…
> 
> 
> 8080
> 
> 1 Comment1 Share
> LikeCommentShare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 13 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD).
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-mrca-and-mr…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force MRCA and MRSAM deals shortly | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD). Moreover the air force is also awarding a contract for LY-80 Medium Range Surface to Air Missile Systems (MRSAM) to Aer ....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/defseca/
> 
> Any truth to any of this?




Who knows ....too many false dawns to get exited however hope so..... 2 sqd min...3 sqds i hope if true....if its bogus order like half a sqd or something simply write BAF off


----------



## Tanveer666

Arthur said:


> Increased budget -yes
> MRSAM - Yes
> Typhoons - Meh


Say wasn't mrsam deal signed a couple of years ago?

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## Bengal71

The Ronin said:


> Although two sources are saying we will get tranche1 F2 block and Marshall ADG will get the modification contract, it's better if we wait for official confirmation. Lots of news were published before, nothing came true. And i thought we already ordered LY-80. Wonder why they are talking about it again. Feels like something will really happen this year.



So the Typhoons are second hand and will be upgraded to Tranche 3 standard? Is that what you are saying?

Very good choice of a fighter if the news is true.


----------



## Avicenna

Bengal71 said:


> So the Typhoons are second hand and will be upgraded to Tranche 3 standard? Is that what you are saying?
> 
> Very good choice of a fighter if the news is true.



No.

Tranche 1 can not be upgraded to Tranche 3.

The real issue is if Tranche 1 really is bought. (mainly used for the air to air role)

What sort of BVR munitions will BAF have access to?


----------



## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> No.
> 
> Tranche 1 can not be upgraded to Tranche 3.
> 
> The real issue is if Tranche 1 really is bought. (mainly used for the air to air role)
> 
> What sort of BVR munitions will BAF have access to?



Don't know. Is tranche 1 still in production? What's the point of buying an older variant? IF money is spent it should be on the latest variants.


----------



## Avicenna

Bengal71 said:


> Don't know. Is tranche 1 still in production? What's the point of buying an older variant? IF money is spent it should be on the latest variants.



No Tranche 1 has been out of production for years.

But it's still a MAJOR capability upgrade for BAF if obtained.

New build is prohibitively expensive. (Tranche 3)

Qatar and Kuwait are paying 6-8 billion USD for like 24-28 examples.


----------



## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> No Tranche 1 has been out of production for years.
> 
> But it's still a MAJOR capability upgrade for BAF if obtained.
> 
> New build is prohibitively expensive. (Tranche 3)
> 
> Qatar and Kuwait are paying 6-8 billion USD for like 24-28 examples.



Hmm.

That's the reason I am in favor of getting J-10 and even a production/assembly line with limited spare parts production capability. For the Burmese, 2/3 squadrons of Gripen E.


----------



## Avicenna

Bengal71 said:


> Hmm.
> 
> That's the reason I am in favor of getting J-10 and even a production/assembly line with limited spare parts production capability. For the Burmese, 2/3 squadrons of Gripen E.



Nah. 

Supposedly PLAAF isnt too keen on exporting J-10CE despite what AVIC says.

Also, in context of Burma, BD isnt getting Chinese help.

I think Myanmar is more an immediate issue than India.

In that respect and timing, I think the main focus has to be parity with Myanmar.

To that effect, 12 ex-RAF Tranche 1 with an appropriate BVR missile would be golden.

Also, I am EXTREMELY skeptical in nature.

The only reason why I even entertain the remote possibility of BAF obtaining Typhoon is this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/third-bangladesh-united-kingdom-strategic-dialogue

Refer to Item 3 in the Security & defence co-operation paragraph.

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## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> Nah.
> 
> Supposedly PLAAF isnt too keen on exporting J-10CE despite what AVIC says.
> 
> Also, in context of Burma, BD isnt getting Chinese help.
> 
> I think Myanmar is more an immediate issue than India.
> 
> In that respect and timing, I think the main focus has to be parity with Myanmar.
> 
> To that effect, 12 ex-RAF Tranche 1 with an appropriate BVR missile would be golden.
> 
> Also, I am EXTREMELY skeptical in nature.
> 
> The only reason why I even entertain the remote possibility of BAF obtaining Typhoon is this:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/third-bangladesh-united-kingdom-strategic-dialogue
> 
> Refer to Item 3 in the Security & defence co-operation paragraph.



Chinese will sell anything for money and J-10C is not the best aircraft they have. I don't believe they won't sell it to us.

Typhoon is a very good aircraft but too expensive procurement wise and operating cost wise. On the other hand Gripen has impressive capabilities and cost is far less and operating cost is about 4K USD per flight hour. If Gripen can be acquired I think we should go for that instead.


----------



## Avicenna

Bengal71 said:


> Chinese will sell anything for money and J-10C is not the best aircraft they have. I don't believe they won't sell it to us.
> 
> Typhoon is a very good aircraft but too expensive procurement wise and operating cost wise. On the other hand Gripen has impressive capabilities and cost is far less and operating cost is about 4K USD per flight hour. If Gripen can be acquired I think we should go for that instead.



J-10CE is officially available for export as per public data.

But hard to say what the availability of it is for Bangladesh. Also, is it wise for Bangladesh to buy Chinese planes when they are time and time again failing to support the BD position on Rohingya.

We DO need China ultimately for India.

But until the Rohingya problem is settled or actually until there is a new government in Myanmar, that nation will be the main problem for Bangladesh.

That said, it may be wise to get into the Western fighter ecosystem.

Really I would be good with F-16, Typhoon or Gripen but so far only Typhoon has been linked to Bangladesh and even that is a very vague link officially and rumors unofficially.

@Bengal71 

In regards to the Typhoon all I can say is Inshallah!


----------



## polanski

Avicenna said:


> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 7 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a 10.4% increase in the budgetary allocation for FY2019-20 as compared to the previous year’s budget to BDT 32,101 crore.
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-defence-budget-increa…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh defence budget increased over 10%, special allocations availed | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Armed Forces received a…
> 
> 
> 8080
> 
> 1 Comment1 Share
> LikeCommentShare
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis*
> 13 hrs ·
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD).
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/…/bangladesh-air-force-mrca-and-mr…/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEFSECA.COM
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force MRCA and MRSAM deals shortly | Bangladesh Defence & Security Analysis
> The Bangladesh Air Force will sign the much awaited contract for the Eurofighter Typhoon Multi-Role Combat Aircraft shortly with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD). Moreover the air force is also awarding a contract for LY-80 Medium Range Surface to Air Missile Systems (MRSAM) to Aer ....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/defseca/
> 
> Any truth to any of this?



Defseca or whatever it is, a copycat of bdmilitary.com. they produced mostly fake news.
Information is replaced by propaganda and misinformation. That's the job of ISPR. It helps them steal money. A sh$t load of money is stolen from defense budget in the name commercial projects. I have never seen a military that buy Dodger, Concrete Mixer, Earth Mover, Dump Truck in bulk quantities. These are used in commercial investment. They bought a number of equipment for Saudi Deployment.
You now understand why so much deception, misinformation and propaganda campaigns through many newspapers and fake websites registered in $1 crazy domains.
Bangladesh military is a organized white collar criminal.



Bengal71 said:


> Chinese will sell anything for money and J-10C is not the best aircraft they have. I don't believe they won't sell it to us.
> 
> Typhoon is a very good aircraft but too expensive procurement wise and operating cost wise. On the other hand Gripen has impressive capabilities and cost is far less and operating cost is about 4K USD per flight hour. If Gripen can be acquired I think we should go for that instead.


So far rational comments by you.



Petrichor said:


> Myanmar is more important geopolitically than Bangladesh to China no doubt.We Bangladeshis understand this & don't have any bad feelings against China for it.
> However, it's your wholehearted support for the savage junta that gave rise to anti China sentiments in BD.
> China could have reined in Myanmar in the Rohingya issue.You have that influence.
> That would have improved your image not just in BD & the Muslim world, but also all over the world.People would have looked to China as a mediator, a counter against imperialistic west led by US.
> 
> But you did nothing & instead supported a barbaric regime while they killed, raped & tortured their own countrymen.


There is no such thing Muslim brotherhood. Those are gone days. MBS publicly supported India on Kashmir Skirmish. Do you know why? India is one of the largest oil importer. Pakistan-Saudi fallout, Saudi-Qatar fallout, Saudi-Lebanon fallout. Saudi-Oman fallout, Saudi-Turkey fallout.

But look at relationships between Israel and Saudi, Israel and Oman Israel and UAE. These are great relationships. Pakistan and Bangladesh need to learn from Oman.



Avicenna said:


> Thanks Ryan Smith.


Who is he? Is Ryan Smith the Father of Bangladeshi Nation.

Under current circumstances, Bangladesh can and able to buy military equipment from any country except North Korea and Iran.
American ambassador to Bangladesh sent a clear message to foreign Minister of Bangladesh that Trump administration will approve any request from Bangladesh for foreign military sale through state department.
But I believe Bangladeshi military leaders are incompetent and profiteer who are busy filling their pokets. They have no shame on admitting that they are loser and coward. In Indian subcontinent, Indian Air Force and Bangladesh Air Guard are loser because both rely on Vladimir Putin's genital.

Pakistani and Jordanian female pilots have big balls than any Bangladeshi General, Air Marshal or Admiral.
Bangladesh should hire Jordanian female pilots to train Bangladeshi pilots.



Avicenna said:


> J-10CE is officially available for export as per public data.
> 
> But hard to say what the availability of it is for Bangladesh. Also, is it wise for Bangladesh to buy Chinese planes when they are time and time again failing to support the BD position on Rohingya.
> 
> We DO need China ultimately for India.
> 
> But until the Rohingya problem is settled or actually until there is a new government in Myanmar, that nation will be the main problem for Bangladesh.
> 
> That said, it may be wise to get into the Western fighter ecosystem.
> 
> Really I would be good with F-16, Typhoon or Gripen but so far only Typhoon has been linked to Bangladesh and even that is a very vague link officially and rumors unofficially.
> 
> @Bengal71
> 
> In regards to the Typhoon all I can say is Inshallah!


You dislike American Components in any fighter jet. European Fighter jet has American Components and cannot be replaced with European Components. Rafale has American Components. French took approval from US state department before exporting Rafale to India and Egypt. Whether you buy Rafale, Eurofighter, Gripen or Super Hornet, all need American approval for either armaments or for electronics. PERIOD.

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## The Ronin

https://www.defseca.com/procurement...00-rz8rA8jwp8e3CHRUVlaa1sv6bIYuRg6WSC2mfMZDSM





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2455618471153331







Avicenna said:


> What sort of BVR munitions will BAF have access to?



Word is they will get MICA initially with second hand tranche 1 Typhoon and Meteor in five years. Seems BS to me.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> https://www.defseca.com/procurement...00-rz8rA8jwp8e3CHRUVlaa1sv6bIYuRg6WSC2mfMZDSM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2455618471153331
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Word is they will get MICA initially with second hand tranche 1 Typhoon and Meteor in five years. Seems BS to me.



Meteor is really difficult to believe.

Too capable a missile for it to be released to Bangladesh not to mention the cost.

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## mb444

Trance 1 EFT although will increase BAF capacity will be the final nail in the coffin for BAF. 
Such a procurement is not a sign of long term planning but rather a knee jerk reaction that will tie BAFs hand for a long time.

BD can not afford second hand fighters.... whatever is purchased needs to have enough life in it to justify the investment.

I am all for EFT, but it needs to be tranche 3 and with meteor. I do not see any issue whatsoever with anyone objecting to BD having it. 

Last chance saloon for BAF and its next choice is an existential one.

Personally as i have said before BD needs to concentrate on developing and offensive missile force. Its cheap and can be done indeginiously and literally will offer more bang for the buck.

Once this is done resurrect BAF with good fighters. It may take a decade but better to wait sometimes and do it correctly rather than keep something below par going.

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## Haris Ali2140

polanski said:


> There is no such thing Muslim brotherhood. Those are gone days.* MBS publicly supported India on Kashmir Skirmish*. Do you know why? India is one of the largest oil importer. Pakistan-Saudi fallout, Saudi-Qatar fallout, Saudi-Lebanon fallout. Saudi-Oman fallout, Saudi-Turkey fallout.


When did he said that?


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> China could protect it's interest AND rein in Myanmar.But refused to do so & was against BD in every step in this issue.
> 
> On BD, we have failed because of our ineptitude & idiotic views regarding foreign relations & will probably continue to fail if current trend continues.
> BD needs to introspect hard & question the choices it made that led to it currently standing alone.
> 
> And may I just say what a bullshit philosophy "Friendship to all, malice to none" is in current world?
> Instead it should be "Speak softly & carry a big stick."


"Friendship to all, malice to none" type of foreign policy was introduced by military dictator Ziaur Rahman who was also the founder of BNP. Don't blame PM Sheikh Hasina for this weird foreign policy.


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## polanski

Here is the evidence, the US State Department approved all requests for foreign military sale from Southeast Asia, South Asia (India and Pakistan), Middle East and Africa in the FY2019 fiscal year. 
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...itary-sales-the-state-department-okd-in-fy19/



Haris Ali2140 said:


> When did he said that?



https://scroll.in/article/936665/wh...ess-support-for-pakistans-position-on-kashmir

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ed-condemn-india-kashmir-190911112648176.html


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## Haris Ali2140

polanski said:


> Here is the evidence, the US State Department approved all requests for foreign military sale from Southeast Asia, South Asia (India and Pakistan), Middle East and Africa in the FY2019 fiscal year.
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/...itary-sales-the-state-department-okd-in-fy19/
> 
> 
> 
> https://scroll.in/article/936665/wh...ess-support-for-pakistans-position-on-kashmir
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ed-condemn-india-kashmir-190911112648176.html



https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...ind-its-action-in-kashmir/article29512895.ece


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## Sehnsucht

Buddhistforlife said:


> "Friendship to all, malice to none" type of foreign policy was introduced by military dictator Ziaur Rahman who was also the founder of BNP. Don't blame PM Sheikh Hasina for this weird foreign policy.


Whatever gave you the idea that I was blaming the PM for this idiotic policy?

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## Buddhistforlife

Petrichor said:


> Whatever gave you the idea that I was blaming the PM for this idiotic policy?


I did not say you said it. I was generalising. Many Bangladeshi blames the entire failure of being not able to repatriate the rohingyas on BAL.


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## Michael Corleone

Dubious said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> Such language will not be tolerated!


So you don’t ban Pakistanis when they cross the line huh?



polanski said:


> Defseca or whatever it is, a copycat of bdmilitary.com. they produced mostly fake news.
> Information is replaced by propaganda and misinformation. That's the job of ISPR. It helps them steal money. A sh$t load of money is stolen from defense budget in the name commercial projects. I have never seen a military that buy Dodger, Concrete Mixer, Earth Mover, Dump Truck in bulk quantities. These are used in commercial investment. They bought a number of equipment for Saudi Deployment.
> You now understand why so much deception, misinformation and propaganda campaigns through many newspapers and fake websites registered in $1 crazy domains.
> Bangladesh military is a organized white collar criminal.


Okay Ryan smith

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## CHACHA"G"

Going for EFT - T1 (old ones) is not a good idea , EFTs are expensive to operate and maintenance cost is also high , better to buy new Trench 3 (proper advance 4.5+ gen multirole) from UK . . . In this case Only buying cost will going to be higher then old ones , ..

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## Dubious

Michael Corleone said:


> So you don’t ban Pakistanis when they cross the line huh?


Report ....

We deal with reports

If you reply back you will be dealt as we see the reply...coz it is forum rules that whoever replies back will be dealt the same way as the one who initiated


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> So you don’t ban Pakistanis when they cross the line huh?
> 
> 
> Okay Ryan smith


So you joined my cause or still believe in morons. Bdmilitary.com and defseca whatever runs propaganda, would not save your a$$. Myanmar will be the beneficiary of "counter China" policy whether that is moral or ethical things to do or not but we will be doing it.

Ryan Smith is the father of Bangladeshi nation.



CHACHA"G" said:


> Going for EFT - T1 (old ones) is not a good idea , EFTs are expensive to operate and maintenance cost is also high , better to buy new Trench 3 (proper advance 4.5+ gen multirole) from UK . . . In this case Only buying cost will going to be higher then old ones , ..


Come back when Bangladesh really placed an order of Eurofighter Typhoon. Stop spreading fake news from bdmilitary or defseca morons. You can't afford $60 million how are you going to buy $300 million dollar bird. You can fool Bangladeshi newspapers by publishing fake news like Bangladesh is the powerful military on the planet earth. North Korea does the same thing. North Korea spends money on CGI animated ballistic missile and guns. Bangladesh started doing the same thing.


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## polanski

What a shame! Looks like your boyfriend Putin is rewarding Myanmar with Su-57E 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...sian-su-57e-stealth-fighters-are-coming-85786

Keep your ego in your back side. Now it's your time to bend over in front of the West. This is the ONLY option you have.


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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> What a shame! Looks like your boyfriend Putin is rewarding Myanmar with Su-57E
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...sian-su-57e-stealth-fighters-are-coming-85786
> 
> Keep your ego in your back side. Now it's your time to bend over in front of the West. This is the ONLY option you have.



Bullsh#t article Ryan.

Although, in all honesty, it really doesn't matter at this point what BAF buys.

The greatest threat to Bangladeshi interests seems to be from within.

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> So you joined my cause or still believe in morons. Bdmilitary.com and defseca whatever runs propaganda, would not save your a$$. Myanmar will be the beneficiary of "counter China" policy whether that is moral or ethical things to do or not but we will be doing it.
> 
> Ryan Smith is the father of Bangladeshi nation.


And I’m your father, ah well I wasn’t married to your mom so basicAlly you’re a bastard child of mine xD



Avicenna said:


> Bullsh#t article Ryan.
> 
> Although, in all honesty, it really doesn't matter at this point what BAF buys.
> 
> The greatest threat to Bangladeshi interests seems to be from within.


Sadly that’s the truth. That mir jafar of a daughter will fucking sell the free people again just to stay in power

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> And I’m your father, ah well I wasn’t married to your mom so basicAlly you’re a bastard child of mine xD
> 
> 
> Sadly that’s the truth. That mir jafar of a daughter will fucking sell the free people again just to stay in power



Here you go again, your dad Putin sold Su-57E to Myanmar. Myanmar Ambassador to Russia told newspapers that Myanmar will place order of Su-57E next year. When Myanmar says they do when Bangladesh says they basically BS. 

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/myanmar-could-be-the-su-57-s-first-export-client-reports

Who's your daddy now? Soon Bangladeshi children will look a like Rohingya. 

You don't have guts to criticism your leadership. You are an a$$ kisser like Ashiqur Rahman, Bilal Miah, Sayed Amar Khan, Shourov, Mahi. 

I wish Bangladesh had freedom of speech and free press then I would post few documents to Prothom Alo, Dhaka Tribune to publish on the front page. I guess they won't publish those report even if I sent them the evidence, name and rank of those people involved in the treasonous act of violation of national Security in favor personal gain.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Can someone explain to me why buying from the Russians would be a bad idea?


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Here you go again, your dad Putin sold Su-57E to Myanmar. Myanmar Ambassador to Russia told newspapers that Myanmar will place order of Su-57E next year. When Myanmar says they do when Bangladesh says they basically BS.
> 
> https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/myanmar-could-be-the-su-57-s-first-export-client-reports
> 
> Who's your daddy now? Soon Bangladeshi children will look a like Rohingya.
> 
> You don't have guts to criticism your leadership. You are an a$$ kisser like Ashiqur Rahman, Bilal Miah, Sayed Amar Khan, Shourov, Mahi.
> 
> I wish Bangladesh had freedom of speech and free press then I would post few documents to Prothom Alo, Dhaka Tribune to publish on the front page. I guess they won't publish those report even if I sent them the evidence, name and rank of those people involved in the treasonous act of violation of national Security in favor personal gain.


Lmao and you still couldn’t find it my name. I’ll just leave it at that. It’s so easy you pleb


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## polanski

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Can someone explain to me why buying from the Russians would be a bad idea?


Why buying from Russia is good idea when Su-30MKI failed to fight F-16C? India will spend billions to replace so called classified stupid bar radar. Israeli F-16 destroyed Buk-M2E and Pantsir-s1 repeatedly. The S-400 failed to shoot down a duck in Syria. Russia is begging to sale Su-35. Only some idiotic people like Turkish President is trying to buy from Russian. Stupid Bangladeshi thinks Russia and China are ally of Bangladesh.

India has many failed Russian Projects namely.

Su-30MKI (Radar doesn't work)
Mig-29K (currently half of them grounded)
T-90 Arjun junk
Overheating Russian Rifles
Akash Junk

Same goes for Su-30MKM and Su-30MK2V. The Su-30MKM is grounded. If you copy Russian fighter you get the sh$t like J-15. 

Do you want to learn by looking at others or learn by doing mistakes which you already did but learn nothing at all. No one is friends when comes to defense procurement. Everyone sells to everyone because everyone needs money. That's the bottom line.


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Israeli F-16 destroyed Buk-M2E and Pantsir-s1 repeatedly.


Fn-16 derivatives shot down Jordanian f16s... your point?


----------



## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Fn-16 derivatives shot down Jordanian f16s... your point?



My point is Israel Air Force used Rafael Sky Shield and Jordanian didn't use any jammers. 

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/12/16/rafael-sky-shield-airborne-support-jammer/

Point is Pakistani F-16 screwed Indian Su-30MKI. Turkish F-16 shoot down Russian Sukhoi. You need to take into consideration of pilot skills and equipment they were using.


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Fn-16 derivatives shot down Jordanian f16s... your point?



And Houthis shot down RSAF F-15SA with R-27.

https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-f-15-houthis-shot-down-yemen-2018-1



polanski said:


> Su-30MKI (Radar doesn't work)
> Mig-29K (currently half of them grounded)
> T-90 Arjun junk
> Overheating Russian Rifles
> Akash Junk





polanski said:


> Point is Pakistani F-16 screwed Indian Su-30MKI.



Akash is an Indian SAM
T-90 Bhishma and Arjun are two different tank
India will jointly produce AK-203 and buying more Mig-29.
Do have any credible source to back your statement on Su-30MKI radar, Mig-29K and overheating Russian rifles?

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> My point is Israel Air Force used Rafael Sky Shield and Jordanian didn't use any jammers.
> 
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/12/16/rafael-sky-shield-airborne-support-jammer/
> 
> Point is Pakistani F-16 screwed Indian Su-30MKI. Turkish F-16 shoot down Russian Sukhoi. You need to take into consideration of pilot skills and equipment they were using.


Again it’s not so simple as to compare the scenarios so black and white


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## bluesky

polanski said:


> Here you go again, your dad *Putin sold Su-57E to Myanmar*. Myanmar Ambassador to Russia told newspapers that Myanmar will place order of Su-57E next year. When Myanmar says they do when Bangladesh says they basically BS.


But, I do not think BD will have to buy so many $100 million western toys that can be destroyed by missiles priced at a half-million-dollar or less. BAF does not have to match MAF planes one to one. 3-tier missile systems would be a better option for a defensive war. This is what you said earlier and I believe it. 

Planes like F-35 are different, though. These are almost completely capable of diverting the attacking missiles because these planes are not detectable at their exact locations. So, the missiles misjudge the locations. Are Su-57Es also similarly fitted with those ploys like in the F-35s?

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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> But, I do not think BD will have to buy so many $100 million western toys that can be destroyed by missiles priced at a half-million-dollar or less. BAF does not have to match MAF planes one to one. 3-tier missile systems would be a better option for a defensive war. This is what you said earlier and I believe it.
> 
> Planes like F-35 are different, though. These are almost completely capable of diverting the attacking missiles because these planes are not detectable at their exact locations. So, the missiles misjudge the locations. Are Su-57Es also similarly fitted with those ploys like in the F-35s?


Potent SAM systems are even more difficult to acquire... USA will rather sell you F-35 than patriot missile...


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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> Potent SAM systems are even more difficult to acquire... USA will rather sell you F-35 than patriot missile...


Patriot is shit anyways

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## TopCat

Michael Corleone said:


> Patriot is shit anyways


Patriot is the lowest tier of American SAM system. and it is one of the best in that category.


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## bluesky

TopCat said:


> Patriot is the lowest tier of American SAM system. and it is one of the best in that category.


I was not talking about Patriot missiles. Any types of missiles that can down MM aircraft are welcome. Someone knowledgeable, please highlight the reliability of various missiles that BAF may be allowed to buy or is in the process of procuring already. I heard about the mobilization of short-range missiles by BAF. But, I do not know how effective these FM-90 missiles are. Now, watch the video on FM-90.


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> I was not talking about Patriot missiles. Any types of missiles that can down MM aircraft are welcome. Someone knowledgeable, please highlight the reliability of various missiles that BAF may be allowed to buy or is in the process of procuring already. I heard about the mobilization of short-range missiles by BAF. But, I do not know how effective these FM-90 missiles are. Now, watch the video on FM-90.


I’m not sure if these are any good against supersonic targets... would love to learn too


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## mb444

bluesky said:


> I was not talking about Patriot missiles. Any types of missiles that can down MM aircraft are welcome. Someone knowledgeable, please highlight the reliability of various missiles that BAF may be allowed to buy or is in the process of procuring already. I heard about the mobilization of short-range missiles by BAF. But, I do not know how effective these FM-90 missiles are. Now, watch the video on FM-90.


FM90 is never going to down a jet....a helicopter maybe.... a missile possibly....

Its for short range defense as far as I know. Makes sense for BA to buy....why BAF should bother i do not know...


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## ghost250

NEXT BATCH OF K-8W ARE READY | Hongdu Aircraft Corporation, the manufacturer of the K-8W Karakorum has finished the next batch of K-8s on order by Bangladesh Air Force. The aircraft should be joining the fleet soon.

#

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## Philip the Arab

bluesky said:


> I was not talking about Patriot missiles. Any types of missiles that can down MM aircraft are welcome. Someone knowledgeable, please highlight the reliability of various missiles that BAF may be allowed to buy or is in the process of procuring already. I heard about the mobilization of short-range missiles by BAF. But, I do not know how effective these FM-90 missiles are. Now, watch the video on FM-90.


@Michael Corleone
@mb444
FM-90s can shoot down supersonic jets at 12km as evident from this data collected from FM-90 brochure. As long as plane is travelling below 6km it is done for.


Entered service 2009 (?) 
Crew 3 men 
Effective Range
ASM Target 600 m/s
700 - 7,000 m
Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s
700 - 11,000 m
*Aircraft Target*
*700 - 12,000 m*
Helicopter Target
700 - 15,000 m
Effective Altitude
ASM Target 600 m/s 30 - 3,000 m
Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s 30 - 6,000 m
Aircraft/Helicopter Target
30 - 6,000 m 
Single Shot Pk
≤0.85
Radar System
Maximum Detection Range RCS=0.1 m2
20 km
Maximum Tracking Range RCS=0.1 m2 18 km
Concurrent Target Detection Qty
48
Concurrent Target Tracking Qty 24
Fire Control Channels
7
Reaction Time
6.5 to 10.5 sec
Missile Maximum Velocity
930 m/s
Missile Maximum load Factor
35 G





Radar has a 20km detection range and a 18km tracking range.

This is a full battery of 3 launchers and one radar. This is 12 missiles for engagment.






Here is a video of firing albeit of a older version of FM-90 called HQ-7.




Skipped to part near firing but may need to skip ahead.
Also, wasn't this the planned air defenses of Bangladesh?




These are all very capable missiles, I highlighted some of these on my Bangladesh layered air defense concept before.

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> @Michael Corleone
> @mb444
> FM-90s can shoot down supersonic jets at 12km as evident from this data collected from FM-90 brochure. As long as plane is travelling below 6km it is done for.
> 
> 
> 
> Entered service 2009 (?)
> Crew 3 men
> Effective Range
> ASM Target 600 m/s
> 700 - 7,000 m
> Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s
> 700 - 11,000 m
> *Aircraft Target*
> *700 - 12,000 m*
> Helicopter Target
> 700 - 15,000 m
> Effective Altitude
> ASM Target 600 m/s 30 - 3,000 m
> Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s 30 - 6,000 m
> Aircraft/Helicopter Target
> 30 - 6,000 m
> Single Shot Pk
> ≤0.85
> Radar System
> Maximum Detection Range RCS=0.1 m2
> 20 km
> Maximum Tracking Range RCS=0.1 m2 18 km
> Concurrent Target Detection Qty
> 48
> Concurrent Target Tracking Qty 24
> Fire Control Channels
> 7
> Reaction Time
> 6.5 to 10.5 sec
> Missile Maximum Velocity
> 930 m/s
> Missile Maximum load Factor
> 35 G
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Radar has a 20km detection range and a 18km tracking range.
> 
> This is a full battery of 3 launchers and one radar. This is 12 missiles for engagment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a video of firing albeit of a older version of FM-90 called HQ-7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skipped to part near firing but may need to skip ahead.
> Also, wasn't this the planned air defenses of Bangladesh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are all very capable missiles, I highlighted some of these on my Bangladesh layered air defense concept before.


Well the AA guns you see on the last pics have been inducted. So were the fn16 and fm90
I guess medium to long range are still in the cards... not sure if they were ordered or not

Can someone tell me why aren’t the attrition lost jet trainers not replaced with new orders? Curious

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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> @Michael Corleone
> @mb444
> FM-90s can shoot down supersonic jets at 12km as evident from this data collected from FM-90 brochure. As long as plane is travelling below 6km it is done for.
> 
> 
> Entered service 2009 (?)
> Crew 3 men
> Effective Range
> ASM Target 600 m/s
> 700 - 7,000 m
> Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s
> 700 - 11,000 m
> *Aircraft Target*
> *700 - 12,000 m*
> Helicopter Target
> 700 - 15,000 m
> Effective Altitude
> ASM Target 600 m/s 30 - 3,000 m
> Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s 30 - 6,000 m
> Aircraft/Helicopter Target
> 30 - 6,000 m
> Single Shot Pk
> ≤0.85
> Radar System
> Maximum Detection Range RCS=0.1 m2
> 20 km
> Maximum Tracking Range RCS=0.1 m2 18 km
> Concurrent Target Detection Qty
> 48
> Concurrent Target Tracking Qty 24
> Fire Control Channels
> 7
> Reaction Time
> 6.5 to 10.5 sec
> Missile Maximum Velocity
> 930 m/s
> Missile Maximum load Factor
> 35 G
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Radar has a 20km detection range and a 18km tracking range.
> 
> This is a full battery of 3 launchers and one radar. This is 12 missiles for engagment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a video of firing albeit of a older version of FM-90 called HQ-7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skipped to part near firing but may need to skip ahead.
> Also, wasn't this the planned air defenses of Bangladesh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are all very capable missiles, I highlighted some of these on my Bangladesh layered air defense concept before.



My issue was why BAF wants it..... protective measures for installations?


----------



## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> My issue was why BAF wants it..... protective measures for installations?


It can protect Dhaka and other cities in the short term. This protects installations in the city as well.


----------



## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Patriot is shit anyways


You misunderstood again. Saudi doesn't have layered defense that was the cause of the failure. The Saudi never maintained the training and alert level to counter threats. This was training issue rather than Patriot issue. American sent 300 Patriot crews to operate the Patriot because Saudi doesn't sh$t about missiles defense. Buying great hardware and operating that hardware are two different things.



TopCat said:


> Potent SAM systems are even more difficult to acquire... USA will rather sell you F-35 than patriot missile...


Bro, Patriots are sold to any country who can put the bills. There are long list of Patriots users.



Philip the Arab said:


> @Michael Corleone
> @mb444
> FM-90s can shoot down supersonic jets at 12km as evident from this data collected from FM-90 brochure. As long as plane is travelling below 6km it is done for.
> 
> 
> Entered service 2009 (?)
> Crew 3 men
> Effective Range
> ASM Target 600 m/s
> 700 - 7,000 m
> Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s
> 700 - 11,000 m
> *Aircraft Target*
> *700 - 12,000 m*
> Helicopter Target
> 700 - 15,000 m
> Effective Altitude
> ASM Target 600 m/s 30 - 3,000 m
> Cruise Missile Target 300 m/s 30 - 6,000 m
> Aircraft/Helicopter Target
> 30 - 6,000 m
> Single Shot Pk
> ≤0.85
> Radar System
> Maximum Detection Range RCS=0.1 m2
> 20 km
> Maximum Tracking Range RCS=0.1 m2 18 km
> Concurrent Target Detection Qty
> 48
> Concurrent Target Tracking Qty 24
> Fire Control Channels
> 7
> Reaction Time
> 6.5 to 10.5 sec
> Missile Maximum Velocity
> 930 m/s
> Missile Maximum load Factor
> 35 G
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Radar has a 20km detection range and a 18km tracking range.
> 
> This is a full battery of 3 launchers and one radar. This is 12 missiles for engagment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a video of firing albeit of a older version of FM-90 called HQ-7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skipped to part near firing but may need to skip ahead.
> Also, wasn't this the planned air defenses of Bangladesh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are all very capable missiles, I highlighted some of these on my Bangladesh layered air defense concept before.


 This photo resurfaced again. This photo is circulating since 2016. What happened since then? Nothing!. 
You have been using photos to deter enemy.


----------



## Philip the Arab

polanski said:


> You misunderstood again. Saudi doesn't have layered defense that was the cause of the failure. The Saudi never maintained the training and alert level to counter threats. This was training issue rather than Patriot issue. American sent 300 Patriot crews to operate the Patriot because Saudi doesn't sh$t about missiles defense. Buying great hardware and operating that hardware are two different things.
> 
> 
> Bro, Patriots are sold to any country who can put the bills. There are long list of Patriots users.
> 
> 
> This photo resurfaced again. This photo is circulating since 2016. What happened since then? Nothing!.
> You have been using photos to deter enemy.


Procurement takes time... Public deals aren't always revealed to us for some time until BD armed forces are ready.

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## polanski

bluesky said:


> But, I do not think BD will have to buy so many $100 million western toys that can be destroyed by missiles priced at a half-million-dollar or less. BAF does not have to match MAF planes one to one. 3-tier missile systems would be a better option for a defensive war. This is what you said earlier and I believe it.
> 
> Planes like F-35 are different, though. These are almost completely capable of diverting the attacking missiles because these planes are not detectable at their exact locations. So, the missiles misjudge the locations. Are Su-57Es also similarly fitted with those ploys like in the F-35s?


Russia doesn't have advanced electronic warfare capabilities why do you think Russian are focusing on press releases and photoshop of Su-57. Su-57 and J-20 are not a matured platform. The current Su-57 is equipped with all legacy equipment of Su-57. Russia also canebolized two prototypes of Su-57 as spares of other Su-57. There is no production line for Su-57. Russian are good at spreading misinformation and propaganda. 
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/04/30/russias-su-57-is-a-su-35-beneath-a-new-airframe/



Philip the Arab said:


> Procurement takes time... Public deals aren't always revealed to us for some time until BD armed forces are ready.


 What happened to that infamouse photo of preshipment inspection of HQ-16? 
May be the grease negotiation takes time, that's all. That's how subcontinent works!

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> You misunderstood again. Saudi doesn't have layered defense that was the cause of the failure. The Saudi never maintained the training and alert level to counter threats. This was training issue rather than Patriot issue. American sent 300 Patriot crews to operate the Patriot because Saudi doesn't sh$t about missiles defense. Buying great hardware and operating that hardware are two different things.


Saudi military is a joke anyways. I’ve seen vids of their trainees trying to take the shortcut in task provided to them by Bengali or Pakistani instructors. Americans don’t even bother sending instructors to these morons because they’re lost cause

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## The Ronin

Philip the Arab said:


> Also, wasn't this the planned air defenses of Bangladesh?



It's only for the army and they changed a bit this year excluding FK-3 and FM-3000 SAM.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Saudi military is a joke anyways. I’ve seen vids of their trainees trying to take the shortcut in task provided to them by Bengali or Pakistani instructors. Americans don’t even bother sending instructors to these morons because they’re lost cause


Dude this is a contractual agreement between manufacturers and Saudi. And off course, Trump ordered US Army train Saudis. $110B at stake. This is more than just MIM Patriot. Saudi Arabia is the largest weapon buyer of America.

https://www.defense.gov/explore/sto...ends-additional-capabilities-to-saudi-arabia/



Michael Corleone said:


> I’m not sure if these are any good against supersonic targets... would love to learn too


China will decommission all HQ-7 from Naval fleet. HQ-7 will remain as an export product. HQ-7 is no longer effective against modern supersonic cruise missile. HQ-7 can shoot down helicopters and UAV. HQ-7 is useless against any modern EW. Basically, Bangladesh has no meaningful air defense Systems.
If Pakistan supply Turkish EW with JF-17 then Myanmar Air Force will freely be flying over Bangladesh, dropping bombs and peacefully going home.
If Pakistan ever integrate SOM with JF-17 then it will ended up Myanmar's hand. Bangladesh is screwed big time.
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2019/10/02/roketsan-som-cruise-missile/

Bangladeshi military leaders are pathetic, self-centered, corrupt who are interested in commercial projects and fill their pockets. I still don't understand why would a military buy hundreds of millions of dollars of construction equipment but can't afford to buy air defense Systems or fighter jets.

Look Myanmar, Pakistani and Indian Military are also corrupt but they don't screw their country to implement construction projects. Bangladesh Military had a attitude to fill the pockets as soon possible and retire peacefully.

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## polanski

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Can someone explain to me why buying from the Russians would be a bad idea?


Answers are here https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2019/09/08/from-russia-with-dud-meet-the-sukhoi-su-30-and-su-35/

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...riumf-is-not-rocket-science-but-sead-science/

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/03/28/mig-35-fulcrum-f/


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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Dude this is a contractual agreement between manufacturers and Saudi. And off course, Trump ordered US Army train Saudis. $110B at stake. This is more than just MIM Patriot. Saudi Arabia is the largest weapon buyer of America.
> 
> https://www.defense.gov/explore/sto...ends-additional-capabilities-to-saudi-arabia/
> 
> 
> China will decommission all HQ-7 from Naval fleet. HQ-7 will remain as an export product. HQ-7 is no longer effective against modern supersonic cruise missile. HQ-7 can shoot down helicopters and UAV. HQ-7 is useless against any modern EW. Basically, Bangladesh has no meaningful air defense Systems.
> If Pakistan supply Turkish EW with JF-17 then Myanmar Air Force will freely be flying over Bangladesh, dropping bombs and peacefully going home.
> If Pakistan ever integrate SOM with JF-17 then it will ended up Myanmar's hand. Bangladesh is screwed big time.
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2019/10/02/roketsan-som-cruise-missile/
> 
> Bangladeshi military leaders are pathetic, self-centered, corrupt who are interested in commercial projects and fill their pockets. I still don't understand why would a military buy hundreds of millions of dollars of construction equipment but can't afford to buy air defense Systems or fighter jets.
> 
> Look Myanmar, Pakistani and Indian Military are also corrupt but they don't screw their country to implement construction projects. Bangladesh Military had a attitude to fill the pockets as soon possible and retire peacefully.


If had seen one of these camps in the Middle East, you would find it funny. Niggas spend billions to buy protection... they’re so stupid, they make exceptions for American soldiers and their women to not cover up, heck they can make a sound when these women sunbathe with bikini or in he nude. 

as for not being able to buy air defense and fighters... who makes you the expert? Everything is being upgraded step by step


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## Nike

Found interesting photograph here from PT DI sites, Sheikh Hasina with late B.J. Habibie (at the time Indonesia minister of research and excecutive of IPTN)







Taken during Indonesia Airshow 1996, at the time Bangladesh showing interest toward several of IPTN product like CN235 and CN212 along possibility to procure N250

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## Michael Corleone

Apparently a private Bangladeshi company, avion aerospace is going to develop light aircraft of some sort which is going to be the first made in Bangladesh aero plane. 
It’s going to be codeveloped with a Chinese company

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Apparently a private Bangladeshi company, avion aerospace is going to develop light aircraft of some sort which is going to be the first made in Bangladesh aero plane.
> It’s going to be codeveloped with a Chinese company



https://www.defseca.com/defence-industry/bangladeshi-company-to-manufacture-light-aircraft-soon/

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> https://www.defseca.com/defence-industry/bangladeshi-company-to-manufacture-light-aircraft-soon/


This is a very good way to innovate, as battery tech progresses and density per kilogram increases, aircrafts like these will not only become viable but good for cheap accessible pilot training


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## Rahil Ahmed

The Ronin said:


> https://www.defseca.com/defence-industry/bangladeshi-company-to-manufacture-light-aircraft-soon/



This is good who knows what its going to be like in 10 years, any chance of indigenously built fighters or Helicopters by 2030?


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## Philip the Arab

Rahil Ahmed said:


> This is good who knows what its going to be like in 10 years, any chance of indigenously built fighters or Helicopters by 2030?


Probably a very low chance for fighters. Nobody is developing brand new 4th gen fighters anymore so BD would have to develop 5th gen with China but that is pretty much impossible.

Helicopters could work though.


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## The Ronin

Rahil Ahmed said:


> This is good who knows what its going to be like in 10 years, any chance of indigenously built fighters or Helicopters by 2030?



Not sure about fighter jet but Insha-Allah we will manufacture helicopter jointly/solely in near future. The way we are progressing we can hope about that. Especially when PM and BAF makes similar statement about it.

http://m.banglatribune.com/national...BMDqjFMm7vRZQBUI-yLXZjt4g9HJc-t4uNoMqgNGUA-bw

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## leonblack08

The Ronin said:


> Not sure about fighter jet but Insha-Allah we will manufacture helicopter jointly/solely in near future. The way we are progressing we can hope about that. Especially when PM and BAF makes similar statement about it.
> 
> http://m.banglatribune.com/national...BMDqjFMm7vRZQBUI-yLXZjt4g9HJc-t4uNoMqgNGUA-bw



Do you think it will be done in a similar arrangement with Chinese technical help as was done for the ships?


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## The Ronin

leonblack08 said:


> Do you think it will be done in a similar arrangement with Chinese technical help as was done for the ships?



Well i am no military expert but first of all we didn't take Chinese technical help for all ships we built. They are good at producing potent design at cheap price but it's not same when it comes to design an unique aircraft especially helicopter. They still copy or take help from others to design aircraft. So i don't see any great chances but can't deny it totally either because China still lack a heavy attack helicopter and a indigenous new light utility helicopter design. So if we want a cheap option then in future there could be a slim chance. (correct me if i am wrong)

But here's why i don't see any chances, military and local operators use Russian and western helicopter. Mostly Western helicopter i think. We already have MRO plant for Russian Mi series. And we are establishing our own aerospace university and industry in Lalmonirhat where Saudis, Beximco and other companies (probably Bashundhara as they are local partner with Leonardo) interested to invest. So chances for western options are high if the economy stays stable by grace of Allah. This is my silly theory and wet-dream for now.

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## leonblack08

The Ronin said:


> Well i am no military expert but first of all we didn't take Chinese technical help for all ships we built. They are good at producing potent design at cheap price but it's not same when it comes design an unique aircraft especially helicopter. They still copy or take help from others to design aircraft. So i don't see any great chances but can't deny it totally either because China still lack a heavy attack helicopter and a indigenous new light utility design. So if in future there could be a slim chance. (correct me if i am wrong)
> 
> But here's why i don't see any chances, military and local operators use Russian and western helicopter. Mostly Western helicopter i think. We already have MRO plant for Russian Mi series. And we are establishing our own aerospace university and industry in Lalmonirhat where Saudis, Beximco and other companies (probably Bashundhara as they are local partner with Leonardo) interested to invest. So chances for western options are high if the economy stays stable by grace of Allah. This is my silly theory and wet-dream for now.




Actually your theory on going into Joint Venture with European helicopters makes more sense to me, to be honest. Since most of our helos are either Russian or European, it makes sense to go that way. I do pray your dream comes true though! The faster we can move towards Western hardware, the better.

And yes you are right, even though China has good fighter jets, they are still not at the same level as Russia/West when it comes to helicopters, which is quite surprising to me.

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## Michael Corleone

Did Hasina say anything about building fighter jets recently? Bdmilitary says so


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Did Hasina say anything about building fighter jets recently? Bdmilitary says so



I am also looking for her speech in Kurigram.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> I am also looking for her speech in Kurigram too.


Tag me when you post please


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## Jobless Jack

Philip the Arab said:


> Probably a very low chance for fighters. Nobody is developing brand new 4th gen fighters anymore so BD would have to develop 5th gen with China but that is pretty much impossible.
> 
> Helicopters could work though.


Rather than fighters , I would rather see BD build/ develop a potent missile force ..


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## Michael Corleone

The info below is from defres and it’s loosely based on what I recollect. 
BD requested sales of American arms, especially fighters, transport aircraft, attack helicopters, missiles and artillery units
So far American side has been positively receptive but they would like to work out two previous deals related to weapons sales etc that we talked about earlier 

so, 16x f16 block 60
12x f18 for maritime strike
18 155mm howitzers
2 c130H
Apache (not sure how many)
Missiles (info unknown)

this is loose recollection from defres post. 
Some other person with BAF source (take it with grain of salt) said 1 tanker and attack helicopters are only things that will be acquired before 2025 from US, he says not to expect fighters before that


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## Nike

Michael Corleone said:


> The info below is from defres and it’s loosely based on what I recollect.
> BD requested sales of American arms, especially fighters, transport aircraft, attack helicopters, missiles and artillery units
> So far American side has been positively receptive but they would like to work out two previous deals related to weapons sales etc that we talked about earlier
> 
> so, 16x f16 block 60
> 12x f18 for maritime strike
> 18 155mm howitzers
> 2 c130H
> Apache (not sure how many)
> Missiles (info unknown)
> 
> this is loose recollection from defres post.
> Some other person with BAF source (take it with grain of salt) said 1 tanker and attack helicopters are only things that will be acquired before 2025 from US, he says not to expect fighters before that




When even you cant equip mig 29 fleet into a full squadron and still in nego with Belarus to upgrading your 8 Mig 29, let alone acquire 16 F16 is a tall task. And Lockmart is not sold their block 60 anymore as their production line had been tooled to produce block 70/viper variants along with recent contract with Slovakia and before with Bahrain in 2018. Even when you are trying to acquire them the price to set up necessary infrastructure will be prohibited as Bangladesh is heavily reliants with Chinese and Russian standard and system. Its fine when you acquire western made utility helicopter and C130J, as transport aircraft doesnt need complex C4ISR infrastructure to bring them into their full potential at battlefield, unlike fighter and attack helicopter. To acquire Apache, to set up a squadron level forces plus infrastructure required to sustain them and set up their network need at least 1 billion US dollar funds. Not to mention F/A 18. Btw, US is not in free market for 155 mm arty, unless you are trying to nego with them for EDA M109 and M198 along with their refurbished cost.

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## Michael Corleone

Nike said:


> When even you cant equip mig 29 fleet into a full squadron and still in nego with Belarus to upgrading your 8 Mig 29, let alone acquire 16 F16 is a tall task. And Lockmart is not sold their block 60 anymore as their production line had been tooled to produce block 70/viper variants along with recent contract with Slovakia and before with Bahrain in 2018. Even when you are trying to acquire them the price to set up necessary infrastructure will be prohibited as Bangladesh is heavily reliants with Chinese and Russian standard and system. Its fine when you acquire western made utility helicopter and C130J, as transport aircraft doesnt need complex C4ISR infrastructure to bring them into their full potential at battlefield, unlike fighter and attack helicopter. To acquire Apache, to set up a squadron level forces plus infrastructure required to sustain them and set up their network need at least 1 billion US dollar funds. Not to mention F/A 18. Btw, US is not in free market for 155 mm arty, unless you are trying to nego with them for EDA M109 and M198 along with their refurbished cost.


Mig 29s were supposed to be two squadrons. One squadron was ready, regime change and cancellations of the order destroyed the force. I don’t think new jets will be bought, or soon enough, but US received these request in 2018 as disclosed by their officials and they require us to sign deals before we proceed. But unlike before when US would say Bangladesh doesn’t have the status to afford or require their weapons, they’re now positive because of the economic growth and stability and that to me is a big step in the right direction

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Well it's not like she didn't say it before. She said it in 2015 too. So it's nothing to be surprised about if she tells it again. But current action doesn't really indicate that we are gonna build fighter jet except that news about building wind tunnel in Jossore base.
> 
> https://www.thedailystar.net/city/hasina-hopes-bangladesh-will-build-fighter-jets-88522
> https://en.prothomalo.com/bangladesh/news/67705/Bangladesh-would-build-fighter-planes-in-future
> 
> 
> 
> And Black Hawk helicopters. DTB said we are trying to get FMS status. Aren't we supposed to negotiate with UK for M777 howitzer as they are main manufacturer? They only integrate and test it in USA if i am not wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> We canceled the next 8 Mig-29 in Zia's period. That chapter is closed for good. Plan for upgrade was cancelled multiple times for unknown reason as Ukraine, Russia didn't place bid. Five Mig-29 needs engine overhauling so BD might be negotiating for that with Belarus. Upgrade news was BD Military's story, only solid thing was repairing army's aircraft.
> 
> And we operated mix of western-eastern trainer and fighter so that isn't problem i think. If we can negotiate for EFT than i don't know why we can't go for F-16 or others. Necessary structures can be build if required and we can send our pilots to other country for training as we are already doing.


I guess not too much fuss is being made about it to keep India from interfering at our business
Not sure about the howitzers, Is there certain shells that are only made in US? Bell helicopters are being planned to be replaced in the future too. Let’s see how this spans out


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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> If had seen one of these camps in the Middle East, you would find it funny. Niggas spend billions to buy protection... they’re so stupid, they make exceptions for American soldiers and their women to not cover up, heck they can make a sound when these women sunbathe with bikini or in he nude.
> 
> as for not being able to buy air defense and fighters... who makes you the expert? Everything is being upgraded step by step



Butt hurt. I have seen some of material copied from globaldefensecorp.com website and posted in your website. At least you are learning. That's why I am here. Whoever writing those great information are doing great for the democratic society and the west.

Some information are eye opening, am I correct? You lived in cave and believed that MiG fighters are the best until I showed up.

Don't worry I will post Saudi prices photo here. Be hold.

You're here to post misinformation and propaganda to cover up corruption. I am posting truths. You will not like truth.

You don't have guts to criticize your leadership. You're another a$$ kisser. Why not call yourself a Muslim name instead of Michael like your fellow country men or may be women.
Let's see how gutsy you're, are you joining my cause or you left your balls with your wife?

Here is another truth with photographic evidence. Suck it!
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...ine-in-embarrassing-south-china-sea-incident/


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## Nike

The Ronin said:


> Well it's not like she didn't say it before. She said it in 2015 too. So it's nothing to be surprised about if she tells it again. But current action doesn't really indicate that we are gonna build fighter jet except that news about building wind tunnel in Jossore base.
> 
> https://www.thedailystar.net/city/hasina-hopes-bangladesh-will-build-fighter-jets-88522
> https://en.prothomalo.com/bangladesh/news/67705/Bangladesh-would-build-fighter-planes-in-future
> 
> 
> 
> And Black Hawk helicopters. DTB said we are trying to get FMS status. Aren't we supposed to negotiate with UK for M777 howitzer as they are main manufacturer? They only integrate and test it in USA if i am not wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> We canceled the next 8 Mig-29 in Zia's period. That chapter is closed for good. Plan for upgrade was cancelled multiple times for unknown reason as Ukraine, Russia didn't place bid. Five Mig-29 needs engine overhauling so BD might be negotiating for that with Belarus. Upgrade news was BD Military's story, only solid thing was repairing army's aircraft.
> 
> And we operated mix of western-eastern trainer and fighter so that isn't problem i think. If we can negotiate for EFT than i don't know why we can't go for F-16 or others. Necessary structures can be build if required and we can send our pilots to other country for training as we are already doing.



What eastern and western trainer you operated? All only i can see is L 39 made in Czech, K8 Korakorum made in China and Yak 130 mitten made in Russia. Fleet of your basic trainer is PT 6 series from China


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## Avicenna

Nike said:


> What eastern and western trainer you operated? All only i can see is L 39 made in Czech, K8 Korakorum made in China and Yak 130 mitten made in Russia. Fleet of your basic trainer is PT 6 series from China



BAF used to fly Fouga Magisters and T-37 in the past.

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## Nike

Avicenna said:


> BAF used to fly Fouga Magisters and T-37 in the past.



Yeah the same time when Indonesia still operated mix of Sabre and Mig 21 and B 25 mitchell mixed with Tu 16. In the past one doesnt know how much C4ISR and integrated data link system can assist you much into battle, all will sheer of number and raw strength of the aircraft must be taken into account.


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## Avicenna

Nike said:


> Yeah the same time when Indonesia still operated mix of Sabre and Mig 21 and B 25 mitchell mixed with Tu 16. In the past one doesnt know how much C4ISR and integrated data link system can assist you much into battle, all will sheer of number and raw strength of the aircraft must be taken into account.



If nothing else, this time is significant for the Bangladeshi armed forces as it appears significant geopolitical shifts are underway for Bangladesh.


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## Avicenna

Just a rough idea about the numbers involved with the Kuwaiti Superbug purchase.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-contract-to-deliver-28-super-hornets-447237/
*Boeing awarded contract to deliver 28 Super Hornets to Kuwait*


 

02 APRIL, 2018

SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM
Boeing was awarded a contract worth up to $1.17 billion to produce and deliver 22 F/A-18E and 6 F/A-18F Super Hornets for the government of Kuwait by 2022, the US Defence Department announced on 30 March.

State Department approval of the sale of F/A-18 Super Hornets to Kuwait was first announced in November 2016, with the country requesting a total of 40 Super Hornets, including 28 fighters for initial delivery, plus the option to order 12 more. Boeing was to provide Raytheon APG-79 active electronically scanned array radars and 20mm guns for the jets, per the original sale announcement.

“The acquisition of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will allow for greater interoperability with U.S. forces, providing benefits for training and possible future coalition operations in support of shared regional security objectives,” the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said when the arms deal was first announced.




The F/A-18E Super Hornet is a single seat version of the fighter, while the F/A-18F has two seats in tandem.

Orders for the fighter have increased recently, as Congress topped off the US Navy’s request list with 10 more Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornets, worth $739 million, in March. In all, the Navy is buying 24 Super Hornets for a sum of $1.8 billion in fiscal 2018. The additional orders from the US military, as well as Kuwait, have prolonged the life of Boeing’s F/A-18 production line in St. Louis, Missouri.

Work on the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornets for Kuwait will be divided mostly between St. Louis, Missouri (47.2 percent); Goleta, California (22.3 percent); and El Segundo, California (20.1 percent), according to the award notice.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-contract-to-deliver-28-super-hornets-447237/

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## Michael Corleone

polanski said:


> Butt hurt. I have seen some of material copied from globaldefensecorp.com website and posted in your website. At least you are learning. That's why I am here. Whoever writing those great information are doing great for the democratic society and the west.
> 
> Some information are eye opening, am I correct? You lived in cave and believed that MiG fighters are the best until I showed up.
> 
> Don't worry I will post Saudi prices photo here. Be hold.
> 
> You're here to post misinformation and propaganda to cover up corruption. I am posting truths. You will not like truth.
> 
> You don't have guts to criticize your leadership. You're another a$$ kisser. Why not call yourself a Muslim name instead of Michael like your fellow country men or may be women.
> Let's see how gutsy you're, are you joining my cause or you left your balls with your wife?
> 
> Here is another truth with photographic evidence. Suck it!
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...ine-in-embarrassing-south-china-sea-incident/


Oh boy I don’t even want to argue with you, that’s not my website xD


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## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> Just a rough idea about the numbers involved with the Kuwaiti Superbug purchase.
> *Boeing awarded contract to deliver 28 Super Hornets to Kuwait*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 02 APRIL, 2018
> 
> SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM
> Boeing was awarded a contract worth up to $1.17 billion to produce and deliver 22 F/A-18E and 6 F/A-18F Super Hornets for the government of Kuwait by 2022, the US Defence Department announced on 30 March.
> 
> State Department approval of the sale of F/A-18 Super Hornets to Kuwait was first announced in November 2016, with the country requesting a total of 40 Super Hornets, including 28 fighters for initial delivery, plus the option to order 12 more. Boeing was to provide Raytheon APG-79 active electronically scanned array radars and 20mm guns for the jets, per the original sale announcement.
> 
> “The acquisition of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will allow for greater interoperability with U.S. forces, providing benefits for training and possible future coalition operations in support of shared regional security objectives,” the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said when the arms deal was first announced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F/A-18E Super Hornet is a single seat version of the fighter, while the F/A-18F has two seats in tandem.
> 
> Orders for the fighter have increased recently, as Congress topped off the US Navy’s request list with 10 more Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornets, worth $739 million, in March. In all, the Navy is buying 24 Super Hornets for a sum of $1.8 billion in fiscal 2018. The additional orders from the US military, as well as Kuwait, have prolonged the life of Boeing’s F/A-18 production line in St. Louis, Missouri.
> 
> Work on the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornets for Kuwait will be divided mostly between St. Louis, Missouri (47.2 percent); Goleta, California (22.3 percent); and El Segundo, California (20.1 percent), according to the award notice.
> 
> https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-contract-to-deliver-28-super-hornets-447237/




28 F/A-18 for 1.17 billion is a good price.

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## Sehnsucht

Bengal71 said:


> 28 F/A-18 for 1.17 billion is a good price.


Probably cost only this much because Kuwait already has the necessary infrastructure for these jets.
I believe it'll cost us much more.

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Probably cost only this much because Kuwait already has the necessary infrastructure for these jets.
> I believe it'll cost us much more.



Even so let’s say you double the price it’s still affordable at this point for a good number of jets.

the key though is getting access to the appropriate electronics and munitions that allow the aircraft to have maximal teeth like later model sidewinders AMRAAMs and air to ground munition etc.


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> Even so let’s say you double the price it’s still affordable at this point for a good number of jets.
> 
> the key though is getting access to the appropriate electronics and munitions that allow the aircraft to have maximal teeth like later model sidewinders AMRAAMs and air to ground munition etc.


Less than 42 millions for an aircraft like F-18?Does it really seem true to you?
Although I agree that it's possible to get a good numbers of them even at double the price.

And it'd be an excellent decision if BAF chooses it.

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Less than 42 millions for an aircraft like F-18?Does it really seem true to you?
> Although I agree that it's possible to get a good numbers of them even at double the price.
> 
> And it'd be an excellent decision if BAF chooses it.



it’s possible if Uncle Sam makes it possible.

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## Arthur

Discussion between BAF & UK is still active from what I hear. Italy & Spain, our other partners in EU are interested in this deal too. 

On the US front, even if any major shifts happen no platforms will come before at least 2025 IMO.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Discussion between BAF & UK is still active from what I hear. Italy & Spain, our other partners in EU are interested in this deal too.
> 
> On the US front, even if any major shifts happen no platforms will come before at least 2025 IMO.



Potentially a Kuwaiti force structure of Typhoon and Super Hornet. 

InshAllah.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Potentially a Kuwaiti force structure of Typhoon and Super Hornet.
> 
> InshAllah.


BAF is serious about western platforms. And economy isn't an issue anymore.

Now we have to watch how things pan out.

Cheers.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Potentially a Kuwaiti force structure of Typhoon and Super Hornet.
> 
> InshAllah.


Apnar dua jano kobul hoi



loanranger said:


> View attachment 584798
> Meanwhile in Pakistan....Things have moved on....


Pakistani pilots really liked sukhoi, with them in hand, those birds could have their legs stretched properly

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## bdslph

the fighter and helicopter will not be new use / older version 
brand new one will be way to expensive even the latest models ones


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## beyond2018

Avicenna said:


> J-10CE is officially available for export as per public data.
> 
> But hard to say what the availability of it is for Bangladesh. Also, is it wise for Bangladesh to buy Chinese planes when they are time and time again failing to support the BD position on Rohingya.
> 
> We DO need China ultimately for India.
> 
> But until the Rohingya problem is settled or actually until there is a new government in Myanmar, that nation will be the main problem for Bangladesh.
> 
> That said, it may be wise to get into the Western fighter ecosystem.
> 
> Really I would be good with F-16, Typhoon or Gripen but so far only Typhoon has been linked to Bangladesh and even that is a very vague link officially and rumors unofficially.
> 
> @Bengal71
> 
> 
> In regards to the Typhoon all I can say is Inshallah!



The two sides of the matter are the Burmese government and the separatist forces, and China supports the Burmese government in accordance with the consistent foreign investment policy.
Why do Bangladeshis think that China should follow their steps to support separation forces? Do you think Bangladesh is the boss of China?

In fact, Bangladesh and Myanmar, Rohingya and the Myanmar government are two things.


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## Avicenna

beyond2018 said:


> The two sides of the matter are the Burmese government and the separatist forces, and China supports the Burmese government in accordance with the consistent foreign investment policy.
> Why do Bangladeshis think that China should follow their steps to support separation forces? Do you think Bangladesh is the boss of China?
> 
> In fact, Bangladesh and Myanmar, Rohingya and the Myanmar government are two things.



Yup.

Understandable.

China has her interests and Bangladesh has hers.

Sometimes they overlap and sometimes they are at odds.

That is the realm of diplomacy.

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## mb444

beyond2018 said:


> The two sides of the matter are the Burmese government and the separatist forces, and China supports the Burmese government in accordance with the consistent foreign investment policy.
> Why do Bangladeshis think that China should follow their steps to support separation forces? Do you think Bangladesh is the boss of China?
> 
> In fact, Bangladesh and Myanmar, Rohingya and the Myanmar government are two things.



You are correct BD is not the boss of china and neither is China boss of BD.

Where our interest match we will persue it ....mainly economics. 

BD had aligned its strategic calculus with that of China. With the rohingya issue to the fore BD will and is pivoting to alignment with the west.

There is nothing personal and BD will not suddently become adversarial in its approach to china as there remains many areas where our interest converge. However strategic staus quo will not remain.

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## polanski

Michael Corleone said:


> Apnar dua jano kobul hoi
> 
> 
> Pakistani pilots really liked sukhoi, with them in hand, those birds could have their legs stretched properly


I have serious doubt Pakistan will ever buy any Sukhoi after the sweet victory over Kashmir. 
Since Imran Khan meet Donald Trump, Pak-US relationship is kinda better than previously thought. Italy offered Pakistan Typhoon but, that was stopped by crippled economy of Pakistan. If Pakistan buy fighter jet, it would be either European or American platform. 
I don't ruled out FC-31. FC-31 will eventually come to Pakistan once the platform is mature enough to be promoted for export customer. Only local manufacturing of FC-31 may convince the Pakistani military leadership.

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## polanski

Now I know why you're fanboys of Russian junk 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2705905.stm

The Bureau of Anti-Corruption (BAC) accuses Ms Hasina and six men of misappropriating nearly $120m of state money by purchasing the Russian MiG fighters three years ago using corrupt practices.

The accused men are:


Former Air Force Chief Air Vice Marshal Jamal Uddin Ahmed
Former Army Chief General Mustafizur Rahman
Former Defence Secretary Syed Yusuf Hossain
Senior Air Force officer Mirza Akhter Maroof
Former Joint Secretary of the Defence Ministry Mohammad Hossain Serniabat
Businessman Noor Ali.


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## Philip the Arab

Can anybody give me a definite timeline when fighter procurement will be announced?



polanski said:


> HQ-7 is useless against any modern EW. Basically, Bangladesh has no meaningful air defense Systems.
> If Pakistan supply Turkish EW with JF-17 then Myanmar Air Force will freely be flying over Bangladesh, dropping bombs and peacefully going home.


Can you back this up with any evidence?


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Can anybody give me a definite timeline when fighter procurement will be announced?
> 
> 
> Can you back this up with any evidence?



No definite timeline.

Depending on what is bought, if its US sourced likely 2025+.


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## polanski

Philip the Arab said:


> Can anybody give me a definite timeline when fighter procurement will be announced?
> 
> 
> Can you back this up with any evidence?



You're trying to divert the corruption conversion.

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2019/10/15/bangladesh-army-the-thief-in-green-uniform/

Let me educate you since I am here. I am sure Bangladesh doesn't have Aerospace engineer who advises you on radar.

Sino-Crotale or HQ-7 uses Ku band mono pulse radar to track targets. Ku band mono pulse is useless against modern supersonic missiles with built-in countermeasures like RBS-15, Exocet or Kongsberg stealth NSM.

Between 8 and 12 GHz, the ratio of wavelength with relatively small antennas, which favours military use as airborne radar. On the other hand, the antennas of missile control radar systems, which are very large relative to the wavelength, are still handy enough to be considered as deployable.

This frequency band is mainly used in civil and military applications for maritime navigation radar systems, small and cheap to manufacture. 

Outcome: 
Israeli Sky Shield successfully jammed Russian Ku band, S band and L band radars.

Why do you think Israeli Air Force is destroying Illumination radar of Buk and Pantsir-s1 because these are the same bands of radar.

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/12/16/rafael-sky-shield-airborne-support-jammer/


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## Michael Corleone

Can I be honest with you guys?
There’s this certain guy that I’m considering putting on my ignore list and his comments are right above this. I wonder if y’all also put him on ignore


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Can I be honest with you guys?
> There’s this certain guy that I’m considering putting on my ignore list and his comments are right above this. I wonder if y’all also put him on ignore


He is definitely anti-Bangladesh. We all should put him on our ignore lists.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> He is definitely anti-Bangladesh. We all should put him on our ignore lists.


It’s not that which concerns me tbh, like that I would have to put half of pdf members on the list. More about his out of context trolling. Specially talking about stuff he doesn’t know
I’m already out him on ignore.


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> It’s not that which concerns me tbh, like that I would have to put half of pdf members on the list. More about his out of context trolling. Specially talking about stuff he doesn’t know
> I’m already out him on ignore.



I wonder what his background and agenda are?

To be honest I find his posts super entertaining!


----------



## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I wonder what his background and agenda are?
> 
> To be honest I find his posts super entertaining!


I’m done with his second last post. He brings up corruption and our air force. Fact of the matter is Khaleda was corrupt, cancelled the deal and wanted to sell of fighters and launched a purge in the air force.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> I wonder what his background and agenda are?
> 
> To be honest I find his posts super entertaining!


I think he is Indian or Polish (Ski ending)

He also can't back up his claims that FM-90 is incapable of taking down Burmese aircraft.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> I think he is Indian or Polish (Ski ending)
> 
> He also can't back up his claims that FM-90 is incapable of taking down Burmese aircraft.



I think his name polanski refers to Roman Polanksi.

I think he's either Indian or more likely Bangladeshi living in the US.

Either way, he's weird.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> I think his name polanski refers to Roman Polanksi.
> 
> I think he's either Indian or more likely Bangladeshi living in the US.
> 
> Either way, he's weird.



Polanski is a convicted paedophile....wonder if he knows....why would one choose such a name unless it was his....

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Polanski is a convicted paedophile....wonder if he knows....why would one choose such a name unless it was his....



Like I said, weird.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Polanski is a convicted paedophile....wonder if he knows....why would one choose such a name unless it was his....


He most likely is, especially if he’s al beiruni aka ryan smith


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## Avicenna

Here's some of that Italian training.

I hope we take them up on it with some of these!

Enjoy!

Also, they offered 8 of these Tranche 1 to Bulgaria for a little over a billion back in 2018.

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2018/...fighter-to-the-bulgarian-ministry-of-defence/

So they are available!

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Here's some of that Italian training.
> 
> I hope we take them up on it with some of these!
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Also, they offered 8 of these Tranche 1 to Bulgaria for a little over a billion back in 2018.
> 
> https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2018/...fighter-to-the-bulgarian-ministry-of-defence/
> 
> So they are available!


Oh man not 8 fleet force again


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Oh man not 8 fleet force again


Kek.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Oh man not 8 fleet force again



just to start off with!


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> just to start off with!


I would rather have 16 MIG-29M than 8 EFTs.


----------



## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> I would rather have 16 MIG-29M than 8 EFTs.



why?


----------



## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> why?


Mig-29Ms are more than capable for Myanmar and India in the mean time. Numerical superiority is needed in order to maximize sorties, and combat ability. If BD could upgrade 8 in service with 16 more that would make 2 whole squadrons(12 aircraft each) compared to 2/3 of one with 6 EFTs.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Mig-29Ms are more than capable for Myanmar and India in the mean time. Numerical superiority is needed in order to maximize sorties, and combat ability. If BD could upgrade 8 in service with 16 more that would make 2 whole squadrons(12 aircraft each) compared to 2/3 of one with 6 EFTs.



Weapons acquisitions are more about the politics than the hardware themselves.

see GCC procurement notably Qatar.

Going West is paramount.

Tactically give me 8 Typhoon over 16 of any variant of the Fulcrum all day long.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Weapons acquisitions are more about the politics than the hardware themselves.
> 
> see GCC procurement notably Qatar.
> 
> Going West is paramount.
> 
> Tactically give me 8 Typhoon over 16 of any variant of the Fulcrum all day long.


I agree, but going straight to fighters is risky for BD considering they never operated important Western equipment like tanks, vehicles, helicopters, etc. I don't know if BD is going to transition from Eastern aligned country to Western aligned power that easily.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> I agree, but going straight to fighters is risky for BD considering they never operated important Western equipment like tanks, vehicles, helicopters, etc. I don't know if BD is going to transition from Eastern aligned country to Western aligned power that easily.



The recently publicized news looks promising!

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> The recently publicized news looks promising!


A lot of news has been published from J-10, to Su-30 and everything in between.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> A lot of news has been published from J-10, to Su-30 and everything in between.



True but with ever day that passes it’s less and less likely that BAF will go exclusively Chinese or Russian.

Add to that this rather public release of info that BD wants Apaches as well as other US wares.

The issue here as it relates to BAF is release of an active radar AAM from the US or Europe.

Also the rumors that swirled about the C-130J came to fruition.

So I would say it’s certainly within the realm of possibility that BAF goes Western.

I hope so at least inshAllah!


----------



## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> True but with ever day that passes it’s less and less likely that BAF will go exclusively Chinese or Russian.
> 
> Add to that this rather public release of info that BD wants Apaches as well as other US wares.
> 
> The issue here as it relates to BAF is release of an active radar AAM from the US or Europe.
> 
> Also the rumors that swirled about the C-130J came to fruition.
> 
> So I would say it’s certainly within the realm of possibility that BAF goes Western.
> 
> I hope so at least inshAllah!


Why?


----------



## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Why?



1) potentially political backing.

2) US/EU weapons are qualitatively superior.

3) implementation of western training standards.

4) interoperability and participation in international exercises.

5) Tapping into their access to Western weapons is something Bangladesh has a clear advantage over Myanmar.


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> 1) potentially political backing.
> 
> 2) US/EU weapons are qualitatively superior.
> 
> 3) implementation of western training standards.
> 
> 4) interoperability and participation in international exercises.
> 
> 5) Tapping into their access to Western weapons is something Bangladesh has a clear advantage over Myanmar.



1) In a conflict with India there will be no support from West whatsoever.

2) It depends which weapons, and China is ahead of Western Europe simply because they have 2 stealth fighters in development.

3)I agree.

4)I agree.

5)Western weapons as well as non-Western weapons should be procured. More priority should be put on buying weapons from nations that won't sanction BD in a conflict with India or MM.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> 1) In a conflict with India there will be no support from West whatsoever.
> 
> 2) It depends which weapons, and China is ahead of Western Europe simply because they have 2 stealth fighters in development.
> 
> 3)I agree.
> 
> 4)I agree.
> 
> 5)Western weapons as well as non-Western weapons should be procured. More priority should be put on buying weapons from nations that won't sanction BD in a conflict with India or MM.



I am all for a US, EU, China mix.

Russia has nothing to offer of value in my opinion given the points in my previous post and the issues you have raised vis a vis India.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> I am all for a US, EU, China mix.
> 
> Russia has nothing to offer of value in my opinion given the points in my previous post and the issues you have raised vis a vis India.


Do you think a conflict with India or MM is more likely?


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Do you think a conflict with India or MM is more likely?



By far Myanmar, especially short to medium term.

Still a militarily capable Bangladesh is a deterrent in itself when it comes to potentially exploitative Indian policies.

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## TopCat

Philip the Arab said:


> Do you think a conflict with India or MM is more likely?


Army is not only for war against neighbor but more to do with internal stability, global strategic interest and economic reach. Its very unlikely to be sanctioned by everybody when your economy and military is very strong. Nobody will dare to impose sanction on Germany.. will they?


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## Michael Corleone

Has anyone read the new post on Bosnian- Serbian war and Bangladesh armies role in it? It was a great read

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Has anyone read the new post on Bosnian- Serbian war and Bangladesh armies role in it? It was a great read



No.

Please post if possible.



Michael Corleone said:


> Has anyone read the new post on Bosnian- Serbian war and Bangladesh armies role in it? It was a great read



Edit: Nevermind!

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> No.
> 
> Please post if possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Nevermind!


Peacekeepers?


----------



## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Peacekeepers?



Read the post.

I will read it later today InshAllah.


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## Philip the Arab

Do you guys know which UCAV Bangladesh is getting, and for what purpose?


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## Arthur

Philip the Arab said:


> Do you guys know which UCAV Bangladesh is getting, and for what purpose?


Some sources reported it's CH 4 Win Loong from China. I am not very sure about that though.

----
On other news BAF going to place order for 3 ground based mobile AESA radar soon.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> Some sources reported it's CH 4 Win Loong from China. I am not very sure about that though.
> 
> ----
> On other news BAF going to place order for 3 ground based mobile AESA radar soon.


Yes, wing long 2... heard delivery end of this year?

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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> Yes, wing long 2... heard delivery end of this year?


If it's wing loong 2, delivery is possible by end of this year or early next year. Chinese are making them like pancakes.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> If it's wing loong 2, delivery is possible by end of this year or early next year. Chinese are making them like pancakes.


Then we will hear about this before any MRCA deal

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## Shorisrip

Been a while since I've posted, and yet no new jets in our Arsenal 

If we're inducting western platforms, then there's no better option than the Gripen E. It's far superior than anything in Myanmar's Arsenal, and on par with India's Rafales (maybe subjectively better). Nothing beats Nordic manufacturing (cue koenigsegg).


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## Tagaung

Philip the Arab said:


> I think he is Indian or Polish (Ski ending)
> 
> He also can't back up his claims that FM-90 is incapable of taking down Burmese aircraft.



My Dear Idiot,

this is why FM-90 is incapable of taking down Burmese fighter aircraft.

FM-90 maximum altitude is *6 km *where MAF fighters like Su-30SME, Mig 29 and JF-17 maximum flight altitude is *18 km*. 
It will *never *reach our fighters. 

P.S: please read more before commenting on military capabilities to avoid embarrassment.


















@polanski


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## Avicenna

Tagaung said:


> My Dear Idiot,
> 
> this is why FM-90 is incapable of taking down Burmese fighter aircraft.
> 
> FM-90 maximum altitude is *6 km *where MAF fighters like Su-30SME, Mig 29 and JF-17 maximum flight altitude is *18 km*.
> It will *never *reach our fighters.
> 
> P.S: please read more before commenting on military capabilities to avoid embarrassment.
> 
> 
> View attachment 586239
> 
> View attachment 586240
> View attachment 586241
> View attachment 586242



Nice cut and paste skills.

Analysis not so much.

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## Tagaung

Avicenna said:


> Nice cut and paste skills.
> 
> Analysis not so much.


do you have a counter point to argue that FM-90(short-range missile) can take down Su-30,Mig29 or JF 17???


----------



## Tanveer666

Tagaung said:


> do you have a counter point to argue that FM-90(short-range missile) can take down Su-30,Mig29 or JF 17???


Probably wheb they are at a low altitude when conducting their bombing run

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## Avicenna

Tagaung said:


> do you have a counter point to argue that FM-90(short-range missile) can take down Su-30,Mig29 or JF 17???



It all depends on the circumstances of the engagement.

Comparing numbers on wikipedia mean jack.

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## Tagaung

Tanveer666 said:


> Probably wheb they are at a low altitude when conducting their bombing run



depends on what types of bombs. if we use unguided bombs, the aircraft are more exposed to short range SAM.
But if we use laser-guided bombs, the fighters are well out of harm's way. 
Because they can be launched from 8-10 km above ground.


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## Avicenna

Tagaung said:


> depends on what types of bombs. if we use unguided bombs, the aircraft are more exposed to short range SAM.
> But if we use laser-guided bombs, the fighters are well out of harm's way.
> Because they can be launched from 8-10 km above ground.



What base would MyAF be operating out of?

Sittwe?


----------



## Tagaung

Avicenna said:


> It all depends on the circumstances of the engagement.
> 
> Comparing numbers on wikipedia mean jack.



how about this scenario.

air to air engagement between MAF and BAF in BD territory. we have superior numbers and fighters. Since it is air to air engagement, FM-90 will have minimal strategic effect because they are area deny weapons.

BAF will have severe loss within a few days of engagement. After that MAF will start high altitude bombings of BAF airbases using laser-guided bombs.

What do you think about this scenario? do you think it is likely or not.



Avicenna said:


> What base would MyAF be operating out of?
> 
> Sittwe?



sittwe or Mrauk U, both works

maybe even from Meiktila, our air force headquarters since it is only 600 km from Dhaka.

Su-30 range: 3000 km
Mig 29 : 1400 km
: 2100 km (ferry range)


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## Avicenna

Tagaung said:


> how about this scenario.
> 
> air to air engagement between MAF and BAF in BD territory. we have superior numbers and fighters. Since it is air to air engagement, FM-90 will have minimal strategic effect because they are area deny weapons.
> 
> BAF will have severe loss within a few days of engagement. After that MAF will start high altitude bombings of BAF airbases using laser-guided bombs.
> 
> What do you think about this scenario? do you think it is likely or not.
> 
> 
> 
> sittwe or Mrauk U, both works
> 
> maybe even from Meiktila, our air force headquarters since it is only 600 km from Dhaka.
> 
> Su-30 range: 3000 km
> Mig 29 : 1400 km
> : 2100 km (ferry range)
> 
> View attachment 586259



You have 31 Mig-29, 6 JF-17 and no Su-30 right now.

I won't count your F-7 fleet.

You guys are eventually gonna get 16 total JF-17 and 6 Su-30.

I guess you have R-73, R-27, and SD-10. Not sure about R-77.

Yes?

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## Tagaung

Avicenna said:


> You have 31 Mig-29, 6 JF-17 and no Su-30 right now.
> 
> I won't count your F-7 fleet.
> 
> You guys are eventually gonna get 16 total JF-17 and 6 Su-30.
> 
> I guess you have R-73, R-27, and SD-10. Not sure about R-77.
> 
> Yes?



We are getting Su 30 this December. To be honest, I wish there won't be a conflict between us, neighbors. 

Btw, do you guys have any plans for Medium-range SAM?


----------



## Avicenna

Tagaung said:


> We are getting Su 30 this December. To be honest, I wish there won't be a conflict between us, neighbors.
> 
> Btw, do you guys have any plans for Medium-range SAM?



Yes supposedly MRSAM is coming.

As are new fighters.

But of course no confirmation of anything yet.

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## Tagaung

if not, you can opt in for our KS-1B missile. our gov news news agency just confirm the ToT manufacturing of the missiles.












this is our suppose test fire our homemade KS-1b missile.

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## Avicenna

Getting back to the scenario of any engagement between MyAF and BAF.

I would think Bangladesh would be defensive in posture from the very beginning.

Meaning any scenario would be Bangladesh responding to an aggressive Myanmar act.

Perhaps an airspace intrusion by helicopters or fighters?

Or aerial support of a naval skirmish?

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## Tagaung

Avicenna said:


> Getting back to the scenario of any engagement between MyAF and BAF.
> 
> I would think Bangladesh would be defensive in posture from the very beginning.
> 
> Meaning any scenario would be Bangladesh responding to an aggressive Myanmar act.
> 
> Perhaps an airspace intrusion by helicopters or fighters?
> 
> Or aerial support of a naval skirmish?



in case of BD airspace violated by MAF drones, choppers and low flying aircraft, FM 90 will have great effect like in this case. 
https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...sh-protests-myanmar-choppers-violate-airspace

in terms of a naval skirmish, FM 90 will not deter MAF fighters. MAF will probably use Jf-17 for the maritime strike fighter with Mig 29 or Su 30 or both guarding the JF-17.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Tagaung said:


> how about this scenario.
> 
> air to air engagement between MAF and BAF in BD territory. we have superior numbers and fighters. Since it is air to air engagement, FM-90 will have minimal strategic effect because they are area deny weapons.
> 
> BAF will have severe loss within a few days of engagement. After that MAF will start high altitude bombings of BAF airbases using laser-guided bombs.
> 
> What do you think about this scenario? do you think it is likely or not


I don’t reckon your pilots stands a chance against ours or training for that matter, there’s a reason RAF included many of BAF syllabus in their training program.



Tagaung said:


> sittwe or Mrauk U, both works
> 
> maybe even from Meiktila, our air force headquarters since it is only 600 km from Dhaka.
> 
> Su-30 range: 3000 km
> Mig 29 : 1400 km
> : 2100 km (ferry range)


Not as simple as you think, you won’t be able to fly over India to attack us... so you guys would have to go around.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Tagaung said:


> We are getting Su 30 this December. To be honest, I wish there won't be a conflict between us, neighbors.
> 
> Btw, do you guys have any plans for Medium-range SAM?


How are JF 17s performing against Mig 29s?

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## Philip the Arab

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> How are JF 17s performing against Mig 29s?


JF-17s outclass BD Mig-29s unless they get SM upgrade from Russia.



Tagaung said:


> how about this scenario.
> 
> air to air engagement between MAF and BAF in BD territory. we have superior numbers and fighters. Since it is air to air engagement, FM-90 will have minimal strategic effect because they are area deny weapons.
> 
> BAF will have severe loss within a few days of engagement. After that MAF will start high altitude bombings of BAF airbases using laser-guided bombs.
> 
> What do you think about this scenario? do you think it is likely or not.
> View attachment 586259



How about this scenario.
MLRS bomb the f*ck out of Sittwe airbase thereby destroying any aircraft and their ability to take off. BD will be free to go wherever they want in the sky while MM aircraft are burning. All BD needs is to hurry tf up and buy long range MLRS system.

What do you think about this scenario? Do you think it is likely or not?


----------



## Tagaung

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> How are JF 17s performing against Mig 29s?


depends on what types of missions and what mig 29 variants comparing to.
In some cases, jf 17 have a clear advantage because it can carries anti-radiation missiles and anti-ship missiles. So they can be used to hunt down enemy SAM sites and Naval vessels. 

In air to air combat missions, there is no big difference. After all, it all came down to what type of missiles and radar equipped with at the time of engagement.

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## Tagaung

Philip the Arab said:


> JF-17s outclass BD Mig-29s unless they get SM upgrade from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> How about this scenario.
> MLRS bomb the f*ck out of Sittwe airbase thereby destroying any aircraft and their ability to take off. BD will be free to go wherever they want in the sky while MM aircraft are burning. All BD needs is to hurry tf up and buy long range MLRS system.
> 
> What do you think about this scenario? Do you think it is likely or not?
> View attachment 586339



My Dear Idiot,

Short answer would be *NO*.
Here is the long one. 

If you goggle MAF airbases, Sittwe wont be included. Because my dear Idiot, it is a civilian airport. But it can be used as a fuel stop for MAF fighters if the need arises. Even if it is a military airbase, no country will be stupid enough to put all its aircraft in one airbase. 


Let's say, we put all our fighters in Sittwe airport (despite being a civilian airport) for unknown reasons, BD army MLRS wont even reach Sittwe even it fires from next to the border fence. Because my dear Idiot, *WS-22 MLRS* (*the one used by BD army*) has only had a firing range of *20-30 km. *
Even Uragan MLRS (the one in your video) has only have a range of 35 km. 

P.S: this is what 30 km looks like on a map.







this is BD WS-22 MLRS and its specs.











And if you are looking for MLRS shootout between BA and MA, we have a numerical advantage.
According to GFP, BA only has *36* MLRS while MA has *114*.


*Note: My dear idiot, your statements have been idiotic. So I have decided not to reply most of your idiotic statements, in respect to BD forum members from the off-topic discussion and as well as to save my own time. It have been fun, my dear idiot. *

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## Philip the Arab

Tagaung said:


> My Dear Idiot,
> 
> If you goggle MAF airbases, Sittwe wont be included. Because my dear Idiot, it is a civilian airport. But it can be used as a fuel stop for MAF fighters if the need arises. Even if it is a military airbase, no country will be stupid enough to put all its aircraft in one airbase.
> 
> 
> Let's say, we put all our fighters in Sittwe airport (despite being a civilian airport) for unknown reasons, BD army MLRS wont even reach Sittwe even it fires from next to the border fence. Because my dear Idiot, *WS-22 MLRS* (*the one used by BD army*) has only had a firing range of *20-30 km. *
> Even Uragan MLRS (the one in your video) has only have a range of 35 km.
> 
> P.S: this is what 30 km looks like on a map.
> 
> View attachment 586363
> 
> 
> 
> this is BD WS-22 MLRS and its specs.
> 
> View attachment 586364
> 
> 
> View attachment 586365
> 
> 
> And if you are looking for MLRS shootout between BA and MA, we have a numerical advantage.
> According to GFP, BA only has *36* MLRS while MA has *114*.
> 
> 
> *Note: My dear idiot, your statements have been idiotic. So I have decided not to reply most of your idiotic statements, in respect to BD forum members from the off-topic discussion and as well as to save my own time. It have been fun, my dear idiot. *


BD has a tender for long range MLRS dumbass. The longest range Chinese MLRS has 290 km.


----------



## Tagaung

Michael Corleone said:


> I don’t reckon your pilots stands a chance against ours or training for that matter, there’s a reason RAF included many of BAF syllabus in their training program.
> 
> 
> Not as simple as you think, you won’t be able to fly over India to attack us... so you guys would have to go around.



this is the new route for the hypothetical confrontation. it is only 650 km from Dhaka to Meiktila (MAF headquarters), well within our fighters ranges, without passing though Indian air space. 








Michael Corleone said:


> I don’t reckon your pilots stands a chance against ours or training for that matter, there’s a reason RAF included many of BAF syllabus in their training program.



this opinion is entirely subjective. we thinks MAF pilots are better trained because we havent lost newer aircrafts in a training mission. of course, MAF losses some aircraft in training because they are really old F-7. 
On the other hand, BAF loses YAK-130s and K-8s in training exercises. 

this depends entirely on your opinion.

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## Philip the Arab

@waz
@Dubious
@WAJsal
Could you guys check @Tagaung ip address? I think he is @polanski who made another account which is a clear violation of rules.



Tagaung said:


> this is the new route for the hypothetical confrontation. it is only 650 km from Dhaka to Meiktila (MAF headquarters), well within our fighters ranges, without passing though Indian air space.
> 
> View attachment 586369
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this opinion is entirely subjective. we thinks MAF pilots are better trained because we havent lost newer aircrafts in a training mission. of course, MAF losses some aircraft in training because they are really old F-7.
> On the other hand, BAF loses YAK-130s and K-8s in training exercises.
> 
> this depends entirely on your opinion.


Lol, what loadout would the Mig-29s have to able to travel 1300kms? The MiG-29 has a ferry range of 1,500 km without external fuel tanks, and 2,100 km with external tanks meaning that it wouldn't be able to get itself back to base with any meaningful loadout carried.

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## Tagaung

Avicenna said:


> Getting back to the scenario of any engagement between MyAF and BAF.
> 
> I would think Bangladesh would be defensive in posture from the very beginning.
> 
> Meaning any scenario would be Bangladesh responding to an aggressive Myanmar act.
> 
> Perhaps an airspace intrusion by helicopters or fighters?
> 
> Or aerial support of a naval skirmish?



there is one scenario where BAF F-7 can shine. 

If I were a BAF high ranking officer, I would deploy 2 squadrons of F-7 in the Chittagong area, hiding with some camouflage. After the air skirmishes in Dhaka, MAF fighters would pass through the Chittagong area to return home. 
I would then ambush MAF with the F-7s since at the time MAF fighters would be out of missiles. It wont matter that MAF have better radars and aircrafts, without AA missiles they are useless. 

what do u think about this scenario @Avicenna @Michael Corleone ?


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## Bilal9

Philip the Arab said:


> @waz
> @Dubious
> @WAJsal
> Could you guys check @Tagaung ip address? I think he is @polanski who made another account which is a clear violation of rules.
> 
> 
> Lol, what loadout would the Mig-29s have to able to travel 1300kms? The MiG-29 has a ferry range of 1,500 km without external fuel tanks, and 2,100 km with external tanks meaning that it wouldn't be able to get itself back to base with any meaningful loadout carried.



Well that is interesting. But Cox's Bazaar is being expanded as the second most important airbase. Hasn't happened yet, but build-out will continue. I believe this was included as one of the goals in the Forces Goal 2030.

"Two new airbases has been already set up - one at Cox's Bazar[48] and another is Bangabandhu airbase at Dhaka.[49][50] A new air base is being set up under southern command at Barishal to ensure maritime security. The Cox's Bazar air base will be modernized and expanded. A Maritime Air Support Operation Centre (MASOC) will be set up under southern command.[47]"

The point that I'm trying to make is that Cox's Bazaar is only roundabout 300 plus km from Meiktila. So we could launch attacks from Cox's Bazaar and not worry about range.

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## Philip the Arab

Bilal9 said:


> Well that is interesting. But Cox's Bazaar is being expanded as the second most important airbase. Hasn't happened yet, but build-out will continue. I believe this was included as one of the goals in the Forces Goal 2030.
> 
> "Two new airbases has been already set up - one at Cox's Bazar[48] and another is Bangabandhu airbase at Dhaka.[49][50] A new air base is being set up under southern command at Barishal to ensure maritime security. The Cox's Bazar air base will be modernized and expanded. A Maritime Air Support Operation Centre (MASOC) will be set up under southern command.[47]"
> 
> The point that I'm trying to make is that Cox's Bazaar is only roundabout 300 plus km from Meiktila. So we could launch attacks from Cox's Bazaar and not worry about range.


Yeah, assuming BD could get cruise missiles.


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## Bilal9

Philip the Arab said:


> Yeah, assuming BD could get cruise missiles.



300 km range is I believe within the MTCR limits. No?


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> 300 km range is I believe within the MTCR limits. No?



Yes.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Yes.


China isn't in it regardless. It says it follows the rules though.

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## Tagaung

Bilal9 said:


> Well that is interesting. But Cox's Bazaar is being expanded as the second most important airbase. Hasn't happened yet, but build-out will continue. I believe this was included as one of the goals in the Forces Goal 2030.
> 
> "Two new airbases has been already set up - one at Cox's Bazar[48] and another is Bangabandhu airbase at Dhaka.[49][50] A new air base is being set up under southern command at Barishal to ensure maritime security. The Cox's Bazar air base will be modernized and expanded. A Maritime Air Support Operation Centre (MASOC) will be set up under southern command.[47]"
> 
> The point that I'm trying to make is that Cox's Bazaar is only roundabout 300 plus km from Meiktila. So we could launch attacks from Cox's Bazaar and not worry about range.



how would you pass through our air defenses??


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## Philip the Arab

Tagaung said:


> how would you pass through our air defenses??


Cruise missile barrage would be very easy. Even Russia in Syria couldn't take 100 CMs launched towards them.

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## Tagaung

Bilal9 said:


> 300 km range is I believe within the MTCR limits. No?


what long-range mlrs BD is looking? I believe there is none. if there is, cited me a source (reliable one). 

here is our SY-400 ballistic missiles from 2017. rumor says we already have it in our arsenal in 2018.
it has a range of 600km, we can use to strike any BD airbases. 

source
https://defence-blog.com/news/myanmar-looks-to-buy-chinese-sy-400-ballistic-missile-systems.html



Philip the Arab said:


> Cruise missile barrage would be very easy. Even Russia in Syria couldn't take 100 CMs launched towards them.


it would be, if BD has it. 

by the way, check my older post where i post in Burmese in MN forums. It will make sure that I am not Polanski.

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## Philip the Arab

@Tagaung

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## Tagaung

Philip the Arab said:


> @Tagaung




if you read the title, you will realize it is an evaluation document. it is not even a tender yet.

meaning they even haven't decided to buy it or not. 

I saw a BD multirole aircraft tender back in 2017 from BD official gov websites. I haven't heard any news since then.
What i heard is there is a large gap between their expected price and real tender price. 

it means evaluation letters and tenders means little in terms of BD defense procurement news.

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## ghost250

Tagaung said:


> what long-range mlrs BD is looking? I believe there is none. if there is, cited me a source (reliable one).
> 
> here is our SY-400 ballistic missiles from 2017. rumor says we already have it in our arsenal in 2018.
> it has a range of 600km, we can use to strike any BD airbases.
> 
> source
> https://defence-blog.com/news/myanmar-looks-to-buy-chinese-sy-400-ballistic-missile-systems.html
> 
> 
> it would be, if BD has it.
> 
> by the way, check my older post where i post in Burmese in MN forums. It will make sure that I am not Polanski.


sy-400??!!! dont find any trustable news source regarding this purchase of urs like janes...any pics or videos just like those pics of ur recently tested ks-1M ...or in ur camos???rumors i think..nd regarding long range mlrs we have purchased type -B mlrs(120 km)...it was displayed in armed forces hardware show nd army cheif mentioned it several times..





once it is introduced we will go for long range(280-300 km) mlrs...
*u r still using those ancient grads...sigh* P

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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> sy-400??!!! dont find any trustable news source regarding this purchase of urs like janes...any pics or videos just like those pics of ur recently tested ks-1M ...or in ur camos???rumors i think..nd regarding long range mlrs we have purchased type -B mlrs(120 km)...it was displayed in armed forces hardware show nd army cheif mentioned it several times..
> View attachment 586422
> 
> 
> once it is introduced we will go for long range(280-300 km) mlrs...
> *u r still using those ancient grads...sigh* P



Guys so far this is a serious discussion and productive.

Let's continue on this trajectory - and keep this a serious discussion. 

This type of war-gaming analysis is a good idea.

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## Bilal9

Apparently Myanmar is getting Su-57. 











About the Video above - National Interest and The Diplomat Magazine are both RAW sponsored propaganda outlets. So - please provide links to serious negotiations on this please @Tagaung ?


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## Aung Zaya

shourov323 said:


> sy-400??!!! dont find any trustable news source regarding this purchase of urs like janes...any pics or videos just like those pics of ur recently tested ks-1M ...or in ur camos???rumors i think..nd regarding long range mlrs we have purchased type -B mlrs(120 km)...it was displayed in armed forces hardware show nd army cheif mentioned it several times..


I can guaranteed about SY-400 as i have some evidences. even KS-1 ToT was disclosed after the whole process of negotiation , technology transferring and manufacturing has been completed. So dont worry. U may see them around 2020 or 2021.



Bilal9 said:


> Apparently Myanmar is getting Su-57.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the Video above - National Interest and The Diplomat Magazine are both RAW sponsored propaganda outlets. So - please provide links to serious negotiations on this please @Tagaung ?


In fact, That is just a kind of marketing. what our ambassador to Russia said is Myanmar want more advanced aircraft.He never name the aircraft like Su-57. May be MiG-35 or Su-35 could also be possible.

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## Tagaung

Bilal9 said:


> Apparently Myanmar is getting Su-57.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the Video above - National Interest and The Diplomat Magazine are both RAW sponsored propaganda outlets. So - please provide links to serious negotiations on this please @Tagaung ?



here is from yahoo news.
https://news.yahoo.com/attention-asia-more-russian-su-080000321.html


the Burmese ambassador word,
*"We would like to buy not only Su-30 fighters, but also next-generation aircraft, of course, if Russia wants to sell them,"*,

We won't necessarily need Russia permission for buying Su-34 or Su-35, since they let us buy
Su-30SM. but for Su-57 we might need Russia permission. that is why a lot of news outlet conclude we are looking for Su-57.

To be honest, I dont support the idea of MAF getting Su-57 despite being similar price with Su-30sm (the one we are buying). because there would be a huge Maintainance cost. instead I would fund our own fighter program.

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## ghost250

Aung Zaya said:


> I can guaranteed about SY-400 as i have some evidences. even KS-1 ToT was disclosed after the whole process of negotiation , technology transferring and manufacturing has been completed. *So dont worry*. U may see them around 2020 or 2021.
> 
> 
> In fact, That is just a kind of marketing. what our ambassador to Russia said is Myanmar want more advanced aircraft.He never name the aircraft like Su-57. May be MiG-35 or Su-35 could also be possible.



why do i have to??....okey,we will wait till 2021..


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## Avicenna

I would not be surprised if Myanmar does in fact acquire some Su-57.


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## Aung Zaya

shourov323 said:


> why do i have to??....okey,we will wait till 2021..


up to u.  we do not even count the North Korean toys in this case.


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## ghost250

Aung Zaya said:


> up to u.  we do not even count the North Korean toys in this case.


those ancient toys still have shelf life??


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## Michael Corleone

Tagaung said:


> there is one scenario where BAF F-7 can shine.
> 
> If I were a BAF high ranking officer, I would deploy 2 squadrons of F-7 in the Chittagong area, hiding with some camouflage. After the air skirmishes in Dhaka, MAF fighters would pass through the Chittagong area to return home.
> I would then ambush MAF with the F-7s since at the time MAF fighters would be out of missiles. It wont matter that MAF have better radars and aircrafts, without AA missiles they are useless.
> 
> what do u think about this scenario @Avicenna @Michael Corleone ?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 586395


Well what you describe has already played out once, back when we didn’t have integrated air defense identification zone... but radar detection identified a mig 29 of Myanmar Air Force, f7 scrambled from Dhaka and took 8 minutes to reach Chittagong area, when the mig 29 was challenged, it made a dash to Myanmar airspace, his happened around where your estimation lies



Tagaung said:


> this opinion is entirely subjective. we thinks MAF pilots are better trained because we havent lost newer aircrafts in a training mission. of course, MAF losses some aircraft in training because they are really old F-7.
> On the other hand, BAF loses YAK-130s and K-8s in training exercises.
> 
> this depends entirely on your opinion.


I am pretty sure y’all lost some mig 29 some f7 and a brand new transport aircraft bought from China a few years ago. Only one of those incidents ever happened due to pilot error... ie the 2x yak 130 collision... k8 and single yak crashed due to technical malfunction of engine and FBW respectively

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Well what you describe has already played out once, back when we didn’t have integrated air defense identification zone... but radar detection identified a mig 29 of Myanmar Air Force, f7 scrambled from Dhaka and took 8 minutes to reach Chittagong area, when the mig 29 was challenged, it made a dash to Myanmar airspace, his happened around where your estimation lies
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure y’all lost some mig 29 some f7 and a brand new transport aircraft bought from China a few years ago. Only one of those incidents ever happened due to pilot error... ie the 2x yak 130 collision... k8 and single yak crashed due to technical malfunction of engine and FBW respectively



LOL. 

His rationale to prove better training is obviously flawed.

Anyways, we wont really know unless there is actual conflict.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> His rationale to prove better training is obviously flawed.
> 
> Anyways, we wont really know unless there is actual conflict.


I mean if @Tagaung really thinks crashing during training exercise is a way to judge pilot skills, then Burmese Air Force is certainly superior compared to USAF

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> I mean if @Tagaung really thinks crashing during training exercise is a way to judge pilot skills, then Burmese Air Force is certainly superior compared to USAF



Anyways, any new word on procurement?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Anyways, any new word on procurement?


Nope, now it’s all gone quite again, just like how it did when they fucked up with sukhoi

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2505144146200763

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2505144146200763


Came here to post this, did these birds get upgraded or just overhaul? Engine overhaul was also supposed to be done if I remember correctly, damn this was fast

should prove those people wrong those who think they’re not being flown, in fact more so, this is their second overhaul... so 10 more years from now, they’ll receive their last before being retired.

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## Tagaung

Michael Corleone said:


> I mean if @Tagaung really thinks crashing during training exercise is a way to judge pilot skills, then Burmese Air Force is certainly superior compared to USAF



USAF is a different case compared to MAF and BAF. they have lots of aircraft in reserve, so they can afford to do dangerous maneuvers in training exercise. where in BAF and MAF, aircrafts are scarce, so they tend to avoid unnecessary risky situations. 




Avicenna said:


> Anyways, we wont really know unless there is actual conflict.



i agree.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Tagaung said:


> USAF is a different case compared to MAF and BAF. they have lots of aircraft in reserve, so they can afford to do dangerous maneuvers in training exercise. where in BAF and MAF, aircrafts are scarce, so they tend to avoid unnecessary risky situations.


Bangladesh doesn’t buy fighters to keep them like showroom queen, we know we lack quantity so we strive to keep our quality up, same with PAF and this is instilled in both nations air forces from RAF... we regularly try to conduct exercises with friendly air forces like USAF, RAF, US marines and simulate dogfights to learn about tactics of real world situations, to be a pilot in BAF is very tough, we’ve had good f16 trained pilot fired from the force because of his ego. I see people get frustrated with BAF about buying only trainers and establishing simulation centers but fact is we need large number of quality pilots to absorb new fighters and establish new squadrons. I’m sure we talked about a few new squadrons already given national standards after meeting standards within the forces existing squadron

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh doesn’t buy fighters to keep them like showroom queen, we know we lack quantity so we strive to keep our quality up, same with PAF and this is instilled in both nations air forces from RAF... we regularly try to conduct exercises with friendly air forces like USAF, RAF, US marines and simulate dogfights to learn about tactics of real world situations, to be a pilot in BAF is very tough, we’ve had good f16 trained pilot fired from the force because of his ego. I see people get frustrated with BAF about buying only trainers and establishing simulation centers but fact is we need large number of quality pilots to absorb new fighters and establish new squadrons. I’m sure we talked about a few new squadrons already given national standards after meeting standards within the forces existing squadron



To be honest, I'm excited about the new K-8W about to be delivered.

That makes 14 total.

All needed if your gonna train personnel to man any new fighters.

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> I would not be surprised if Myanmar does in fact acquire some Su-57.


Why would you be surprised? Everything Myanmar said so far they did. Everything you said so far is utter lie. You have procured all the fighter jet in the planet earth but none delivered. You have nothing to show for except corruption. You're rice eating fat military who cannot run 500 meters. Do you know what is the meaning of the word "shortly"? Where is Typhoon?
You speak from your back side. Here is the evidence 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2705905.stm

bdmilitary.com and defseca.com are registered under bdmilitary@gmail.com email address. That's the email of Ashiqur Rahman dump a$$.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Why would you be surprised? Everything Myanmar said so far they did. Everything you said so far is utter lie. You have procured all the fighter jet in the planet earth but none delivered. You have nothing to show for except corruption. You're rice eating fat military who cannot run 500 meters. Do you know what is the meaning of the word "shortly"? Where is Typhoon?
> You speak from your back side. Here is the evidence
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2705905.stm
> 
> bdmilitary.com and defseca.com are registered under bdmilitary@gmail.com email address. That's the email of Ashiqur Rahman dump a$$.



Someday your gonna have to get over Uber.

Try to calm down until then.

Procurement of big ticket items like fighters takes time.

Can you deny the improvements in infrastructure and procurement of ancillary hardware?

I say give it time.

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> Someday your gonna have to get over Uber.
> 
> Try to calm down until then.
> 
> Procurement of big ticket items like fighters takes time.
> 
> Can you deny the improvements in infrastructure and procurement of ancillary hardware?
> 
> I say give it time.



Well I have heard Bangladesh bend over in front of Myanmar. Nothing is going to give you little shame. You're becoming a hippopotamus.


----------



## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Well I have heard Bangladesh bend over in front of Myanmar. Nothing is going to give you little shame. You're becoming a hippopotamus.



LOL!

Keep posting my friend!

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## polanski

Avicenna said:


> LOL!
> 
> Keep posting my friend!


Since you asked for it, here you go 
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/

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## Shorisrip

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh doesn’t buy fighters to keep them like showroom queen, we know we lack quantity so we strive to keep our quality up, same with PAF and this is instilled in both nations air forces from RAF... we regularly try to conduct exercises with friendly air forces like USAF, RAF, US marines and simulate dogfights to learn about tactics of real world situations, to be a pilot in BAF is very tough, we’ve had good f16 trained pilot fired from the force because of his ego. I see people get frustrated with BAF about buying only trainers and establishing simulation centers but fact is we need large number of quality pilots to absorb new fighters and establish new squadrons. I’m sure we talked about a few new squadrons already given national standards after meeting standards within the forces existing squadron



Indeed, people forget individuals like Saiful Azam who shot down 4 Israeli jets in two days with a 1951 Hawker Hunter. All the planes flown by the Israelis were much more advanced than his own, and he even managed to bring down a damn Mirage III (a plane still the active in some forces to this day). Pilots from Bengal were well regarded in Pakistan (Sarfaraz Rafiqui, MM Alam, Alauddin Ahmed etc), and same thing in India, with the first South Asian 'flying ace' being Bengali (Indra Lal Roy).

In general, RAF and its closest (commonwealth) derivatives have the most competitive pilot training programs. The Royal Canadian Air Force is often mocked online for having old Hornets, but from my experiences (as a future commissioned officer candidate), I can tell you that most officer cadets look into becoming a pilot, and only a small fraction ever make it. Canadian pilots are some of the best trained in the world. I don't have real life experiences with the BAF, but from what I've heard the pilot qualification programs are quite tough for sure.

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## Avicenna

polanski said:


> Since you asked for it, here you go
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/04/13/bangladesh-air-force-a-flying-club-of-bangladesh/



Thanks Ryan!

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## ghost250

*Bangladesh orders Leonardo’s high-tech air surveillance radar*

https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/...-tech-air-surveillance-rad-1?f=/media-stories


The Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) has ordered Leonardo’s KRONOS LAND radar to provide air surveillance, allowing operators to detect and track targets in tactical environments. Leonardo has announced the contract at BIDEC (Bahrain International Defence Exhibition and Conference) tri-service exhibition, which is taking place at Manama (Baharain) from 28 to 30 October.

Leonardo will also supply communications equipment, twelve months of technical support services, spare parts and a comprehensive training programme for Bangladeshi Air Force personnel with modules in Italy and Bangladesh. As a complete package, this contract will enable the BAF to develop a long-term maintenance capability and preserve the functionality of the system.



Completely designed and developed by Leonardo, the KRONOS LAND is a multi-functional, multi-mission 3D radar for air surveillance and defence, based on latest-generation Full Active-Electronically-Scanned-Array (AESA, also known as E-scan) technology. Leonardo has sold more than 40 KRONOS family systems worldwide.


The contract to supply KRONOS LAND to the Bangladesh Air Force bolsters Leonardo’s presence in Bangladesh. *It follows the earlier provision of the RAT31 surveillance system to the BAF for early warning and air defence.

*

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## Arthur

^excellent. was expecting this event.

KRONOS Land is a excellent choise. It has excellent capacity to integrate SHORAD & VSHORAD systems.

Another thing is it has counter battery capabilities which will come in handy for our future missile force.

Cheers!

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1278422039001370

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## Avicenna

Some more smoke!

@polanski

Please remember to stop by Walgreen's and pick up some of this!








https://www.janes.com/article/92231/us-bangladesh-look-to-sign-foundational-defence-agreements

*US, Bangladesh look to sign ‘foundational’ defence agreements*
*Jon Grevatt, Jakarta* - Jane's Defence Industry
30 October 2019

The United States and Bangladesh are looking to deepen bilateral defence and security ties through the signing of two defence agreements, _Jane's_ understands.

The defence accords - the Acquisitions and Cross Servicing Agreement (ACSA) and the General Security of Military Information Agreement (GSOMIA) - will aim to simplify US-Bangladesh exchanges of logistics support, supplies, and services but could also lead to expanded opportunities for US defence equipment transfers to the South Asian nation.

A US Department of State spokesperson told _Jane's_ , "The United States and Bangladesh are working together to expand partnerships in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, peacekeeping, defence trade, military co-operation, and counterterrorism, as well as maritime security and regional issues."

The spokesperson said that the ACSA and GSOMIA accords would reaffirm that the US and Bangladesh "have common regional and global interests and seek long-term co-operation". He added, "These types of agreements provide a foundation on which we can build up our security co-operation to advance our mutual interests in ensuring peace and prosperity for Bangladesh and the region.

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## The Ronin

Cockpit of F7 BGI.

©Irteza Khan

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Michael Corleone

Hey guys, can someone post that low level flypast of two f7s? Recent video from defense update


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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> Hey guys, can someone post that low level flypast of two f7s? Recent video from defense update


this one??





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Michael Corleone

shourov323 said:


> this one??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


Yes thanks dude


----------



## Indos

shourov323 said:


> this one??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



The left one is extremely low

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## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> You have a problem. A serious one. If it's too expensive to go see a doc in US, come to Canada. You will get it for free.
> 
> For days I am seeing you spam this thread with your useless posts. But now I feel compelled to respond to your trolling.
> 
> Granted that BAF is not in a condition we would have liked, but posting garbage from some blog (perhaps your own) and stating Bangladesh's air is up for anyone who wants it, is outright nonsense.
> 
> No one here is Russian fanboy. But having those migs are better than having nothing. So stop spamming this thread with your garbage.



This guy is funny.

Thanks Ryan Smith for the LOLs.

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## The Ronin

BAF's MiG-29 landed in Tejgaon Old Airport for the very first time in the history of Bangladesh Air Force

Air Force Chief Airchief Marshall Moshiuzzaman Serniabat flew the MiG and made history..











__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2527454453969732

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## Arthur

polanski said:


> Hi Mustafizur,
> Are you joining my case or you lost your guts? Butt hurt when someone tells the truth.
> Shameless people like you will never learn.
> This is what you're.
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2018/10/08/bangladesh-airspace-can-belong-to-anyone-who-wants-it/
> 
> 
> Hi Mustafizur,
> Russian fan boys don't like the fact. Butt hurt. Here is the reality of Ruski junk
> 
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...e-to-air-missile-failed-to-detect-f-35i-adir/


@waz @Dubious brothers, this poster is spamming the threads with useless posts & unverified sources.

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## Dubious

Arthur said:


> @waz @Dubious brothers, this poster is spamming the threads with useless posts & unverified sources.


I thread banned him till we can figure out what his problem is

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## Arthur

Arthur said:


> @waz @Dubious brothers, this poster is spamming the threads with useless posts & unverified sources.


Most probably the water!


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## The Ronin

Dubious said:


> I thread banned him till we can figure out what his problem is



He is a false flagger. Always pollutes Myanmar and Bangladesh defense forum with his garbage. Previous id was @araberuni or something. Constantly writes BS, false propaganda about Bangladesh armed force especially about the air force in Myanmar, Bangladesh defense forum and his word press and other websites as Ryan Smith. He trolls/insult/personally attack/rant about BAF and BD posters for using Chinese/Russian product but he is totally ok when Myanmar armed force uses them. Looks like reporting doesn't work so well unless we mention mod/admin directly here.

@Horus @WDN @WebMaster

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## Dubious

The Ronin said:


> He is a false flagger. Always pollutes Myanmar and Bangladesh defense forum with his garbage. Previous id was @araberuni or something. Constantly writes BS, false propaganda about Bangladesh armed force especially about the air force in Myanmar, Bangladesh defense forum and his word press and other websites as Ryan Smith. He trolls/insult/personally attack/rant about BAF and BD posters for using Chinese/Russian product but he is totally ok when Myanmar armed force uses them. Looks like reporting doesn't work so well unless we mention mod/admin directly here.
> 
> @Horus @WDN @WebMaster


@WebMaster can you have a look into this!

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## xbat

There are news about Hisar-O , anything about Bangladesh media side?

https://southasianmonitor.com/bangladesh/bangladesh-army-selects-turkish-hisar-o-air-defence-system/

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## Michael Corleone

xbat said:


> There are news about Hisar-O , anything about Bangladesh media side?
> 
> https://southasianmonitor.com/bangladesh/bangladesh-army-selects-turkish-hisar-o-air-defence-system/


Bdmil talked about this I believe

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## Bilal9

Time will come at some time for reviving CENTO. We should open a separate thread to discuss unless one exists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Pact

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## Philip the Arab

Egypt apparently got TOT for YLC-6, and can produce it now. Can Bangladesh get approval for such technological transfer from China?


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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> BAF's MiG-29 landed in Tejgaon Old Airport for the very first time in the history of Bangladesh Air Force
> 
> Air Force Chief Airchief Marshall Moshiuzzaman Serniabat flew the MiG and made history..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2527454453969732



I thought this place was permanently shelved as an airport? 

If so, why is the air chief doing stunt landings here carrier style? 

As it is - Tejgaon is doomed as a working airport because of the irresponsible schmuck condo owners violating height restrictions around it. I believe it may serve as a heliport housing local flights for public, fire, police and air force usage and maybe (maybe) flying club traffic. Even regional flights from this airport will face safety issues. Too much dense housing around it.

And of course the usual annual armed forces march past use.

The place looks like a dump now. I will be surprised if it is under armed forces management. Probably CAAB.


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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> I thought this place was permanently shelved as an airport?
> 
> If so, why is the air chief doing stunt landings here carrier style?
> 
> As it is - Tejgaon is doomed as a working airport because of the irresponsible schmuck condo owners violating height restrictions around it. I believe it may serve as a heliport housing local flights for public, fire, police and air force usage and maybe (maybe) flying club traffic. Even regional flights from this airport will face safety issues. Too much dense housing around it.
> 
> And of course the usual annual armed forces march past use.
> 
> The place looks like a dump now. I will be surprised if it is under armed forces management. Probably CAAB.


Center of a populas city like Dhaka is no place for a active Airport. A base for emergency situations may be but not a permanent/active one.

People who is trying to keep it active is just stubborn or corrupt.

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## Bilal9

Arthur said:


> Center of a populas city like Dhaka is no place for a active Airport. A base for emergency situations may be but not a permanent/active one.
> 
> People who is trying to keep it active is just stubborn or corrupt.



Yup - the runway length is not bad, 9000 plus feet (Shahjalal HSIA is 11,000 feet). It's the damn condo complexes on both ends that are the hazard. They seem to have made it a permanent heli and general aviation base for the army, seems to be the current use pattern.

This is looking Southwest.

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> Yup - the runway length is not bad, 9000 plus feet (Shahjalal HSIA is 11,000 feet). It's the damn condo complexes on both ends that are the hazard. They seem to have made it a permanent heli and general aviation base for the army, seems to be the current use pattern.
> 
> This is looking Southwest.



Land is scarce in central Dhaka, of course people will build on their lands. Hampering life & livelihood of hundred of thousands of people just for ego reason is simply wrong.

BAF should keep it as heli port & stop chokeholding development around the area.

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Philip the Arab said:


> Egypt apparently got TOT for YLC-6, and can produce it now. Can Bangladesh get approval for such technological transfer from China?


Maybe! If we pay.

But, we don’t have the manufacturing capabilities...

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> I thought this place was permanently shelved as an airport?
> 
> If so, why is the air chief doing stunt landings here carrier style?
> 
> As it is - Tejgaon is doomed as a working airport because of the irresponsible schmuck condo owners violating height restrictions around it. I believe it may serve as a heliport housing local flights for public, fire, police and air force usage and maybe (maybe) flying club traffic. Even regional flights from this airport will face safety issues. Too much dense housing around it.
> 
> And of course the usual annual armed forces march past use.
> 
> The place looks like a dump now. I will be surprised if it is under armed forces management. Probably CAAB.





Arthur said:


> Center of a populas city like Dhaka is no place for a active Airport. A base for emergency situations may be but not a permanent/active one.
> 
> People who is trying to keep it active is just stubborn or corrupt.


commercial complexes and hotels around it were built without govt. supervision around it... they wanted the govt to close the airport and give the land over for development but hasina at the insistence of the airforce let the airforce turn it into an active base. so airforce keeps regular landing and takeoff sessions here just to keep it running. imo commercial airport and airforce base shouldn't mix like currently at Shahzalal airport. 
like y'all suggest... could be turned into heliport... or future squadrons housed here... idk what the govt plan is but this base does seem out of place rn... should give in to big enterprises to make a financial hub/ downtown dhaka of some sorts with hotels and finance companies

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> commercial complexes and hotels around it were built without govt. supervision around it... they wanted the govt to close the airport and give the land over for development but hasina at the insistence of the airforce let the airforce turn it into an active base. so airforce keeps regular landing and takeoff sessions here just to keep it running. imo commercial airport and airforce base shouldn't mix like currently at Shahzalal airport.
> like y'all suggest... could be turned into heliport... or future squadrons housed here... idk what the govt plan is but this base does seem out of place rn... should give in to big enterprises to make a financial hub/ downtown dhaka of some sorts with hotels and finance companies



Local developers could definitely turn it (even partly) into a modern hotel complex given the proximity to the Parliament house and the nearby Convention Center. Part of the land could definitely be utilized if the Heliport use continues, which is the current pattern.

But emotion will win I'm sure. "This is the place the father of the nation returned in triumph - victorious" etc.

Plus where will annual parade march-past (Kuch-Kawaz) take place?

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> Local developers could definitely turn it (even partly) into a modern hotel complex given the proximity to the Parliament house and the nearby Convention Center. Part of the land could definitely be utilized if the Heliport use continues, which is the current pattern.
> 
> But emotion will win I'm sure. "This is the place the father of the nation returned in triumph - victorious" etc.
> 
> Plus where will annual parade march-past (Kuch-Kawaz) take place?


Due to it's nature architects & urban experts suggested the gov. to turn it into a central square/park for the city where people can come to realx, can hold national level festivities like parade & such.

I am completely against the proposition of handing it over to private developers.

My only problem with the current situation is BAF regularly chokeholds development projects of national importance. like they did with MRT-6 & construction of secretariat buildings etc.

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## Bilal9

Arthur said:


> Due to it's nature architects & urban experts suggested the gov. to turn it into a central square/park for the city where people can come to realx, can hold national level festivities like parade & such.
> 
> I am completely against the proposition of handing it over to private developers.
> 
> My only problem with the current situation is BAF regularly chokeholds development projects of national importance. like they did with MRT-6 & construction of secretariat buildings etc.



You do have a point. We need another area like Ramna Park in the North-Central Part of the city like Ramna is to South-Central area.

It will be like two Central Parks, like the original is a 'Lung' to the NYC ecosystem.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Local developers could definitely turn it (even partly) into a modern hotel complex given the proximity to the Parliament house and the nearby Convention Center. Part of the land could definitely be utilized if the Heliport use continues, which is the current pattern.
> 
> But emotion will win I'm sure. "This is the place the father of the nation returned in triumph - victorious" etc.
> 
> Plus where will annual parade march-past (Kuch-Kawaz) take place?


then i say we should keep most of it intact.
Kuch Kawaz is more important than hotels

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## LKJ86



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## Bilal9

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 589529



I love the new paint-scheme! 

Must be the new airshow scheme.

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## Philip the Arab

This is an old picture, but does anybody know which R-27 variants those are?

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## The Ronin

#Most_Rare_Picture_of_BAF

Westland Wassex Military helicopter of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF). UK gifted two such helicopter after independence. They were probably used till 1978 then got scrapped.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> #Most_Rare_Picture_of_BAF
> 
> Westland Wassex Military helicopter of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF). UK gifted two such helicopter after independence. They were probably used till 1978 then got scrapped.



The Wessex was a licensed copy of the Sikorsky UH-34 used by the US Marines which saw some use in the Vietnam war and in the sixties. One was used as the US Presidents transport from the White House, Just like the UH-60/VH-60 is used today. Official designation for the presidential UH-34 was VH-34D.


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## The Ronin

Airbus official briefing COAS about the specs of Airbus_A400M !! 










__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846317049119503

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## Tarik Bin Hamza

The Ronin said:


> Airbus official briefing COAS about the specs of Airbus_A400M !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846317049119503


There is a good probability to induct C17 in the fleet.

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## Michael Corleone

Tarik Bin Hamza said:


> There is a good probability to induct C17 in the fleet.


Source?


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Source?








Hope it's not this guy!

I forgot where so I can't place a link but I've read something about that too.

Rumors until otherwise obviously.

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## Goku

Michael Corleone said:


> Source?


I think it was sarcasm cz C17 production has been stopped by Boeing , last one was delivered to IAF


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## Sehnsucht

Goku said:


> I think it was sarcasm cz C17 production has been stopped by Boeing , last one was delivered to IAF


IF we get C17, it'll be secondhand probably.

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## Avicenna

Goku said:


> I think it was sarcasm cz C17 production has been stopped by Boeing , last one was delivered to IAF



Used my friend.

Used.....

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## Goku

Petrichor said:


> IF we get C17, it'll be secondhand probably.


Quite hard to get. They are just too good in what they do. BAF can try for Kawasaki C2 , quite similar to C17


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## Michael Corleone

Goku said:


> I think it was sarcasm cz C17 production has been stopped by Boeing , last one was delivered to IAF


RAF plans to downsize. We will get from them probably

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## The Ronin

Goku said:


> Quite hard to get. They are just too good in what they do. BAF can try for Kawasaki C2 , quite similar to C17



C-2 is too costly and carry half the payload of C-17. A-400 can carry more, cheaper and we already have experience on purchasing from Europe. It can even land on beach.  So if C-17 is not possible then perhaps A-400M will come. But i would choose IL-76 if i wanna carry more and close to what C-17 can.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> C-2 is too costly and carry half the payload of C-17. A-400 can carry more, cheaper and we already have experience on purchasing from Europe. It can even land on beach.  So if C-17 is not possible then perhaps A-400M will come. But i would choose IL-76 if i wanna carry more and close to what C-17 can.



Bangladesh seems to be interested more in Western transports i.e. C-130H/J, C-17, or now A400 rather than older Il-76 or the new and still yet unexported Y-20.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh seems to be interested more in Western transports i.e. C-130H/J, C-17, or now A400 rather than older Il-76 or the new and still yet unexported Y-20.


And there are good reasons behind it. Western transport aircraft are simply much more capable & reliable.

And spares are not hard to find since these platforms shares many components with civilian aircraft. Sanctions are not a problem if you want to keep your C130 flying.


But of course all this is just rumors. BAF don't require that much lifting capacity & the current demand can be meet with Super Hercules.

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## Tarik Bin Hamza

Petrichor said:


> IF we get C17, it'll be secondhand probably.


Yup. RAF will retiere some.

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## ghost250

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## The Ronin



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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


>


shit the last line :'(
i am the first variant i guess...
well i will soon change that
it's going to be interesting i hope


----------



## Ali_Baba

Michael Corleone said:


> shit the last line :'(
> i am the first variant i guess...
> well i will soon change that
> it's going to be interesting i hope



Not sure who does this promo videos for BAF, but they are far far better than most of the ones I have seen PAF produce! Maybe PAF should hire them, better visuals, sound. It doesn't always need a patriotic "song", sometimes a visually well made video with some cool thumping music does a 10x bettter job....

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## Tarik Bin Hamza

Michael Corleone said:


> shit the last line :'(
> i am the first variant i guess...
> well i will soon change that
> it's going to be interesting i hope


Well made. I wonder BAF removed the word 'Bangladesh' from the 'Bangladesh Air Force' written in the body of two aircrafts as well as the flags and the squadron logos just to make the episode.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Tarik Bin Hamza said:


> Well made. I wonder BAF removed the word 'Bangladesh' from the 'Bangladesh Air Force' written in the body of two aircrafts as well as the flags and the squadron logos just to make the episode.


No actually those serve as aggressor aircrafts for dogfighting exercise. They’re more active nowadays than they have been 5 years ago



Ali_Baba said:


> Not sure who does this promo videos for BAF, but they are far far better than most of the ones I have seen PAF produce! Maybe PAF should hire them, better visuals, sound. It doesn't always need a patriotic "song", sometimes a visually well made video with some cool thumping music does a 10x bettter job....


Agreed, indeed


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh seems to be interested more in Western transports i.e. C-130H/J, C-17, or now A400 rather than older Il-76 or the new and still yet unexported Y-20.


Y-20 is not for export whatsoever from sources at Dubai Airshow.

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## Michael Corleone

Well I’ve been told by Him on MRCA, however I rather have him announce the news in due time

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Well I’ve been told by Syed on MRCA, however I rather have him announce the news in due time


Can you at least tell us if it is Western or non Western?


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## bd_4_ever

Michael Corleone said:


> Well I’ve been told by Syed on MRCA, however I rather have him announce the news in due time



Would it be reliable this time? He's been saying lot of things since long.



Philip the Arab said:


> Can you at least tell us if it is Western or non Western?



I believe that would make the guess fairly simple. 

If Western: F16 or Typhoon
If non-Western: MIGs or SUs.

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## Philip the Arab

bd_4_ever said:


> Would it be reliable this time? He's been saying lot of things since long.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that would make the guess fairly simple.
> 
> If Western: F16 or Typhoon
> If non-Western: MIGs or SUs.


It could also be J-10, or unlikely JF-17.


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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> Would it be reliable this time? He's been saying lot of things since long.


I hope it is since he’s told me it’s reliable. Let’s wait for January to see it it’s



Philip the Arab said:


> Can you at least tell us if it is Western or non Western?


If I say the specifics will be given away.. I would rather wait to heard from him in January because I wouldn’t want to be seen as a joke and nor does he


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## mb444

BD military personnel from all three forces plus the coast guard and police currently in UK. 

Fingers crossed it is to finalise EF deal. 

What I have heard is they are in talks with RN not only for some excess stock but potentially JVs. If the latter prove to be true then I can only think is for the frigate project. 

BA I understand is looking to train certain number of high calibre officers on its accelerated path to leadership roles via sandhurst annually.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> BD military personnel from all three forces plus the coast guard and police currently in UK.
> 
> Fingers crossed it is to *finalise EF deal*.
> 
> What I have heard is they are in talks with *RN *not only for some excess stock but potentially *JV*s. If the latter prove to be true then I can only think is for the *frigate project*.



It'd be the best holiday present for me if both of these materialized...

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> BD military personnel from all three forces plus the coast guard and police currently in UK.
> 
> Fingers crossed it is to finalise EF deal.
> 
> What I have heard is they are in talks with RN not only for some excess stock but potentially JVs. If the latter prove to be true then I can only think is for the frigate project.
> 
> BA I understand is looking to train certain number of high calibre officers on its accelerated path to leadership roles via sandhurst annually.


Sandhurst produces the finest officers in the world. It’s about time. 
And Cant wait to hear on the procurement plans

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## bd_4_ever

Philip the Arab said:


> It could also be J-10, or unlikely JF-17.



I doubt its J-10 given warplanes are strategic weapons for which we need to ensure supplies in times of war. Given the recent trend in shift away from major Chinese weapons, I dont think its this plane.



mb444 said:


> BD military personnel from all three forces plus the coast guard and police currently in UK.
> 
> Fingers crossed it is to finalise EF deal.
> 
> What I have heard is they are in talks with RN not only for some excess stock but potentially JVs. If the latter prove to be true then I can only think is for the frigate project.
> 
> BA I understand is looking to train certain number of high calibre officers on its accelerated path to leadership roles via sandhurst annually.



Fingers crossed In sha Allah. Would be amazing to have EF + meteors flying in BD colors!

But hey, it could also be military personnels are on a chill trip and on a shopping spree.

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## Avicenna

More Yak-130 for the BAF?

Any one have any idea if this is true and what numbers are expected?

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/russia-to-deliver-more-yak-130s-to-bangladesh-air-force/


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> More Yak-130 for the BAF?
> 
> Any one have any idea if this is true and what numbers are expected?
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/russia-to-deliver-more-yak-130s-to-bangladesh-air-force/


Why are we getting so many Russian trainers when we're supposed to get Western aircraft? Doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Why are we getting so many Russian trainers when we're supposed to get Western aircraft? Doesn't make any sense.



Perhaps not to only use them as trainers.

They do have a light attack capability which perhaps BAF appreciates.

Not sure though.

But also a Yak-130 and M346 have the same lineage.

Perhaps the Yak is just a good platform and since Bangladesh already is committed, it’s adding more.

It serves the same purpose as the M346 which seems to be the trainer of choice for countries such as Israel, Italy, Singapore, and Poland.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> More Yak-130 for the BAF?
> 
> Any one have any idea if this is true and what numbers are expected?
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/russia-to-deliver-more-yak-130s-to-bangladesh-air-force/


I heard long back one lost will be refunded and the two lost will be replaced for full strength, plus 16... but it could just be 16 though

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## SABRE

Petrichor said:


> Why are we getting so many Russian trainers when we're supposed to get Western aircraft? Doesn't make any sense.



It could mean that BAF might actually go for Russian fighters, such as MiG-29M/SMT or MiG-35. This is just speculation so don't read into it.


----------



## Indos

Petrichor said:


> Why are we getting so many Russian trainers when we're supposed to get Western aircraft? Doesn't make any sense.



Russian trainer can also train pilot to fly Western aircraft, just like Indonesian Western jet trainer (T 50 Golden eagle, Hawk 109) that train pilot for both F 16 and Su 27/30. 

And you can also use simulator to train pilot for specific fighter. The reason they add more similar jet trainer is just for simplicity of the maintenance, since they have already bought that Yak earlier.

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## mb444

bd_4_ever said:


> But hey, it could also be military personnels are on a chill trip and on a shopping spree.



Entirely possible. I do not have proof whatsoever of their agenda other than delegations are here. Hopefully we will hear positive soon.


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## Bilal9

Guys if you don't know, Pakistan is planning to get M346, which, as we all know, is near identical to the airframe of the Yak 130. I believe Israelis also got the M346, which speaks rather highly of the M346 itself.

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## Philip the Arab

Bilal9 said:


> Guys if you don't know, Pakistan is planning to get M346, which, as we all know, is near identical to the airframe of the Yak 130. I believe Israelis also got the M346, which speaks rather highly of the M346 itself.


M-346FA would have been better imo than F-7BGIs, and function as trainer.
100km anti ship missile

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## Bilal9

Philip the Arab said:


> M-346FA would have been better imo than F-7BGIs, and function as trainer.
> 100km anti ship missile



Interesting. I am guessing the Russian KH-35E could possibly be integrated into a belly underslung mount for the Yak-130 or maybe it is a bit heavy...

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## Philip the Arab

Bilal9 said:


> Interesting. I am guessing the Russian KH-35E could possibly be integrated into a belly underslung mount for the Yak-130 or maybe it is a bit heavy...


In theory you could integrate a cruise missile based off Marte ER with 100km range.
6 of these would be the shit on an EFT.

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## Philip the Arab

The Ronin said:


> It's only for the army and they changed a bit this year excluding FK-3 and FM-3000 SAM.





The Ronin said:


> View attachment 583985


So that means BD army is trying to get LY-60 instead of FM-3000, and not FK-3 but LY-80?


LY-60 is a good system for defending fixed targets like airbases, cities like Dhaka, etc.

*6 TEL vehicles* with 4 missiles each for a total of 24 missiles able to fire before reloading.





3 Engagement radars




1 Search radar, and command vehicle





@Bilal9
@Avicenna
That is LY-60 right?

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## The Ronin

Fighter pilots of Bangladesh Air Force in Russia for MiG-21 training in 1972.

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## Bilal9

Philip the Arab said:


> So that means BD army is trying to get LY-60 instead of FM-3000, and not FK-3 but LY-80?
> 
> 
> LY-60 is a good system for defending fixed targets like airbases, cities like Dhaka, etc.
> 
> *6 TEL vehicles* with 4 missiles each for a total of 24 missiles able to fire before reloading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 Engagement radars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Search radar, and command vehicle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Bilal9
> @Avicenna
> That is LY-60 right?



The last image bottom two shows both LY-80D and LY-60D. These are export designations of HQ-16 and HQ-64, respectively.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Fighter pilots of Bangladesh Air Force in Russia for MiG-21 training in 1972.


Snowy and muddy, seems legit xD

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## Philip the Arab

Bilal9 said:


> The last image bottom two shows both LY-80D and LY-60D. These are export designations of HQ-16 and HQ-64, respectively.


And do you actually think BD will purchase both these systems, or just putting it on a brochure and not talking about it again?


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> And do you actually think BD will purchase both these systems, or just putting it on a brochure and not talking about it again?


I only knew about ly 80 so it is a possibility

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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> And do you actually think BD will purchase both these systems, or just putting it on a brochure and not talking about it again?


These are pics from BA exhibition. Under those circumstances I would assume at worst we have already purchase it and awaiting delivery. More likely already delivered, integrated and operationally deployed.

I do not believe that BA will put up anything speculatively.

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## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> These are pics from BA exhibition. Under those circumstances I would assume at worst we have already purchase it and awaiting delivery. More likely already delivered, integrated and operationally deployed.
> 
> I do not believe that BA will put up anything speculatively.


LY-60 doesn't offer much more than FM-90, it can only reach about 5k meters and MAF can just fly above it. If BD could layer LY-80, LY-60, and FM-90 in multiple batteries it could be a credible air defense force.


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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> LY-60 doesn't offer much more than FM-90, it can only reach about 5k meters and MAF can just fly above it. If BD could layer LY-80, LY-60, and FM-90 in multiple batteries it could be a credible air defense force.


Probably is the plan.... BA fully understands BAFs deficiencies and has their own plan to counter it.


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## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> Probably is the plan.... BA fully understands BAFs deficiencies and has their own plan to counter it.


I always wonder wtf BD is doing when it comes to air defense. Wouldn't it be better to invest in 5 or 6 batteries of S-300/HQ-9 and cover the whole country?


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> I always wonder wtf BD is doing when it comes to air defense. Wouldn't it be better to invest in 5 or 6 batteries of S-300/HQ-9 and cover the whole country?



Access and cost?


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Access and cost?


Even poorer countries like Kazakhstan have S-300/HQ-9. China will certainty sell HQ-9 to BD m8.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Even poorer countries like Kazakhstan have S-300.



Are you so sure Russia is going to sell?

India would throw a fit.


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Are you so sure Russia is going to sell?
> 
> India would throw a fit.


China will certainly sell you HQ-9.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> China will certainly sell you HQ-9.



Again not so sure.

Also the cost aspect.

An acquisition like that would run in the billions.

Keep in mind the FM-90 was just put into service just relatively recently.

I would imagine it would be an evolution to a long range system.

More immediate though we need a medium range system.

But perhaps someday inshAllah a long range system will be in the cards.

I would rather have a sizeable modern BAF over long range SAMs though.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Again not so sure.
> 
> Also the cost aspect.
> 
> An acquisition like that would run in the billions.
> 
> Keep in mind the FM-90 was just put into service just relatively recently.
> 
> I would imagine it would be an evolution to a long range system.
> 
> More immediate though we need a medium range system.
> 
> But perhaps someday inshAllah a long range system will be in the cards.
> 
> I would rather have a sizeable modern BAF over long range SAMs though.


How about an independent service called something like "Bangladesh air defense forces"
It would have it's own budget instead of having to set aside army, and air force budget, and coordinate with other forces in defending BD airspace.

LY-80 is a good MRSAM but I fear BD will have to acquire many batteries to provide a net that MAF can't get through. That is why I said a longer range SAM would be cheaper in the long run than acquiring many batteries of LY-80.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> How about an independent service called something like "Bangladesh air defense forces"
> It would have it's own budget instead of having to set aside army, and air force budget, and coordinate with other forces in defending BD airspace.
> 
> LY-80 is a good MRSAM but I fear BD will have to acquire many batteries to provide a net that MAF can't get through. That is why I said a longer range SAM would be cheaper in the long run than acquiring many batteries of LY-80.



I guess there are many ways to the same goal.

The goal of course is a credible and robust defense of Bangladeshi territory.

I would say just enjoy some popcorn and watch the whole thing unfold or not unfold.

I’m a hardcore pessimist.

But even I have to say the events of the last 2 years have NOT been business as usual.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> I guess there are many ways to the same goal.
> 
> The goal of course is a credible and robust defense of Bangladeshi territory.
> 
> I would say just enjoy some popcorn and watch the whole thing unfold or not unfold.
> 
> I’m a hardcore pessimist.
> 
> But even I have to say the events of the last 2 years have NOT been business as usual.


One last thing, do you think India would allow MAF to overfly their territory in a war between MM and BD?


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> One last thing, do you think India would allow MAF to overfly their territory in a war between MM and BD?



Yes.

And then follow it up with a public statement that India is with Bangladesh.

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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> Yes.
> 
> And then follow it up with a public statement that India is with Bangladesh.


Looks like you have figured out the nuances of Indian policies vis a vis Bangladesh vai

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## Avicenna

Petrichor said:


> Looks like you have figured out the nuances of Indian policies vis a vis Bangladesh vai



It’s not rocket science bro.

The real question is what is the motivation of Bangladeshi leadership to allow this.

Meaning are they realists....or keeping their enemies close?.....or they just don’t give a f/-k and want to stay in power regardless of national interests?.....or what?

I have no idea.


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## Sehnsucht

Philip the Arab said:


> China will certainly sell you HQ-9.


I won't be too sure.Even Pakistan doesn't have it yet I think.



Avicenna said:


> It’s not rocket science bro.
> 
> The real question is what is the motivation of Bangladeshi leadership to allow this.
> 
> Meaning are they realists....or keeping their enemies close?.....or they just don’t give a f/-k and want to stay in power regardless of national interests?.....or what?
> 
> I have no idea.


If it's the former, then jolly good.
However, if our worst fears come true & it happens to be the latter, then it'll be up to the military & common populace to defend our sovereignty.

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## ghost250

Karakorum K-8W
BAF






##BAH

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## Michael Corleone

Video explains why Bangladesh Air Force kept and still buying more trainers, have more trainers in its fleet than combat aircraft etc. 
if anyone would like to translate the video for foreign users... it would be great

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Video explains why Bangladesh Air Force kept and still buying more trainers, have more trainers in its fleet than combat aircraft etc.
> if anyone would like to translate the video for foreign users... it would be great



This is an overall good video. (From what I can make out from his Bangla)

Also love the Top Gun inspired bit with the motorcycle in the BAF video!

LOL!

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## bd_4_ever

Michael Corleone said:


> Video explains why Bangladesh Air Force kept and still buying more trainers, have more trainers in its fleet than combat aircraft etc.
> if anyone would like to translate the video for foreign users... it would be great



Good video. Honestly, gives me some comfort.

For those who dont speak Bangladesh, this is the main gist: People complained about why so many trainers. But the plan was to first actually build a pool of good pilots and we lacked trainers to do so. Obviously, you wont hand over a multi million dollar jet to a novice pilot without making him up for the job. That is why in the intermediaries, the upgraded F-7s were purchased as stop gap solution, and above it, BAF purchased K8s and Yaks - both of which can in fact perform ground attacks and carry guided/unguided bombs. So technically, you can use them in times of war.
The training happens in 3 stages, starting off with the PTs, then moving to Albatross and then moving to Yaks. Only after that and having enough flight experience, they either go for F-7s or Migs. And therefore, the logical next step in those multi-million dollar jets which BAF is actively seeking now. Final point was that we needed our economy to be stable and strong so that we can finance these big purchases. As that time has come, soon enough we will see big purchases.

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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> Good video. Honestly, gives me some comfort.
> 
> For those who dont speak Bangladesh, this is the main gist: People complained about why so many trainers. But the plan was to first actually build a pool of good pilots and we lacked trainers to do so. Obviously, you wont hand over a multi million dollar jet to a novice pilot without making him up for the job. That is why in the intermediaries, the upgraded F-7s were purchased as stop gap solution, and above it, BAF purchased K8s and Yaks - both of which can in fact perform ground attacks and carry guided/unguided bombs. So technically, you can use them in times of war.
> The training happens in 3 stages, starting off with the PTs, then moving to Albatross and then moving to Yaks. Only after that and having enough flight experience, they either go for F-7s or Migs. And therefore, the logical next step in those multi-million dollar jets which BAF is actively seeking now. Final point was that we needed our economy to be stable and strong so that we can finance these big purchases. As that time has come, soon enough we will see big purchases.


Thanks bro for the English sub 



Avicenna said:


> Also love the Top Gun inspired bit with the motorcycle in the BAF video!


Classic desi cringe

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Thanks bro for the English sub
> 
> 
> Classic desi cringe



I did cringe!

On the topic of the video though, it makes complete sense.

I wonder when and how many K-8W are coming.

And any more Yak--130.

Also, this visit by Mr. Schriver is potentially significant.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I did cringe!
> 
> On the topic of the video though, it makes complete sense.
> 
> I wonder when and how many K-8W are coming.
> 
> And any more Yak--130.
> 
> Also, this visit by Mr. Schriver is potentially significant.


In the video they mention 28 k8 more I doubt it’s just 16 more 
Yak 130 16 more

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## The Ronin



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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


>


2:10 was that a pugachev’s cobra or somersault?
4:36 that was definitely a slow speed somersault


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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

Definitely it is a historical picture in the history of BAF......

17xPT-6S Basic Training aircraft of Bangladesh Air Force showing the number "75" in respect of "75 BAFA" anniversary..

Photo collected from an BAF aviator's profile.

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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> In the video they mention 28 k8 more I doubt it’s just 16 more
> Yak 130 16 more


Not even 16. L 39 will be in service for 5 more years. So if BAF goes for more, the number would be 6-8.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Not even 16. L 39 will be in service for 5 more years. So if BAF goes for more, the number would be 6-8.



I would think 8 more Yak-130 if any more are bought to keep in line with the original 24.

I would hope 11 at least to make up for the attrition.


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I would think 8 more Yak-130 if any more are bought to keep in line with the original 24.
> 
> I would hope 11 at least to make up for the attrition.


Well that would be interesting to see. BAF is yet to make up for 2 K8W it lost. From what i hear they have decided to keep the L 39's for few more years to save money on attrition replacement. 

They have lost 3 Mittens, god knows how long it will take them to make up for that.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> Not even 16. L 39 will be in service for 5 more years. So if BAF goes for more, the number would be 6-8.


damn i thought upcoming k8s replacing l39s completely?



Arthur said:


> Well that would be interesting to see. BAF is yet to make up for 2 K8W it lost. From what i hear they have decided to keep the L 39's for few more years to save money on attrition replacement.
> 
> They have lost 3 Mittens, god knows how long it will take them to make up for that.


how much do they need, they hardly buy anything and when they do, they have hemorrhoids


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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> damn i thought upcoming k8s replacing l39s completely?
> 
> 
> how much do they need, they hardly buy anything and when they do, they have hemorrhoids



Change of plan. L39 's could still fly if overhauled sufficiently. With L39 they will have 22 IJTs in service, a lucrative point to keep them. 



Michael Corleone said:


> how much do they need, they hardly buy anything and when they do, they have hemorrhoids



They recently bought 4 PT 6 to replace the units they have lost in attrition. If you think about it, it took them two decades to replace the first PT 6 lost. Now put K8 & Mittens in perspective & keep going from there. xD

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Change of plan. L39 's could still fly if overhauled sufficiently. With L39 they will have 22 IJTs in service, a lucrative point to keep them.
> 
> 
> 
> They recently bought 4 PT 6 to replace the units they have lost in attrition. If you think about it, it took them two decades to replace the first PT 6 lost. Now put K8 & Mittens & keep going from there. xD



22 IJT?

7 L-39? 7 existing K-W? 7 additional K-8W to be delivered?

21?

Also, 21 or 22 IJT in preparation for what?

How much longer must we wait?? 

LOL.


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## Bilal9

Arthur said:


> L39 's could still fly if overhauled sufficiently.



IMHO, they should upgrade the L39's (while sending them back to Czech Republic in rolling order in batches of three/four) because the latest example of L39 variant is L39 NG (new generation), which boasts a US-made Williams FJ-44 engine (better MTBF/MTBO and much improved reliability due to this being used in most western business jets), lighter fuselage, Italian FIAR Grifo radar, better cockpit with Boeing supplied avionics, wet wings which delete the tip-tanks, and (get this) five hard-points instead of two to support missiles such as sidewinder types. Modifications have been made to support much more load and g-force compared to L39 version that BAF uses.

Thai AF which has similar L39's like BAF, are evaluating this new trainer.

Cost is Euro 12 Million per example. Cost could be defrayed by returning the existing L39 airframes and engines (Ivchenko AI-25).

So these new L39 NG aircraft could easily be used as light attack platforms by BAF. In fact L39 variants L59/L159 have been used by IRAQI AF against ISIS. Which is really not that glowing an endorsement for a fighter, but given what it is (a trainer) is saying a lot. Tunisian AF has also used their L-59's against Al-Qaida Maghreb insurgents. Perfect Anti-insurgency platform.

Note enlarged improved e-z-crack canopy a la BAE HAWK latest versions, absence of tip tanks and modified nose, a la Yak 130 & Macchi 346.














Also note new glass cockpit...

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> IMHO, they should upgrade the L39's (while sending them back to Czech Republic in rolling order in batches of three/four) because the latest example of L39 variant is L39 NG (new generation), which boasts a US-made Williams FJ-44 engine (better MTBF/MTBO and much improved reliability due to this being used in most western business jets), lighter fuselage, Italian FIAR Grifo radar, better cockpit with Boeing supplied avionics, wet wings which delete the tip-tanks, and (get this) five hard-points instead of two to support missiles such as sidewinder types. Modifications have been made to support much more load and g-force compared to L39 version that BAF uses.
> 
> Thai AF which has similar L39's like BAF, are evaluating this new trainer.
> 
> Cost is Euro 12 Million per example. Cost could be defrayed by returning the existing L39 airframes and engines (Ivchenko AI-25).
> 
> So these new L39 NG aircraft could easily be used as light attack platforms by BAF. In fact L39 variants L59/L159 have been used by IRAQI AF against ISIS. Which is really not that glowing an endorsement for a fighter, but given what it is (a trainer) is saying a lot. Tunisian AF has also used their L-59's against Al-Qaida Maghreb insurgents. Perfect Anti-insurgency platform.
> 
> Note enlarged improved e-z-crack canopy a la BAE HAWK latest versions, absence of tip tanks and modified nose, a la Yak 130 & Macchi 346.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also note new glass cockpit...



Nice but this and K-8W are redundant no?

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Nice but this and K-8W are redundant no?



I don't believe so. K-8 I believe is ab-initio jet trainer. L39 is lead-in Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT). The two are in different classes. I could be wrong though.

Yak-130 was supposed to be replacement for L39 as AJT...

@Ronin,@UKBengali bhais your opinions?


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> I don't believe so. K-8 I believe is ab-initio jet trainer. L39 is lead-in Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT). The two are in different classes. I could be wrong though.
> 
> Yak-130 was supposed to be replacement for L39 as AJT...
> 
> @Ronin,@UKBengali bhais your opinions?



K-8W and L-39 are used for the same purposes.

Yak-130 is a step above so to speak.

I AM surprise BD went for K-8W instead of L-39 lineage aircraft.

Likely due to the cheaper price of the K-8W.

L-39, by accounts that I have read is a GREAT aircraft.


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## The Ronin

BAF might buy and install another Selex Rat-31DL AESA radar in Jessore or Cox's Bazar



Bilal9 said:


> L39 is lead-in Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT)



It's an IJT. L-159 Alca is the AJT.



Avicenna said:


> I AM surprise BD went for K-8W instead of L-39 lineage aircraft.
> 
> Likely due to the cheaper price of the K-8W.



L-39NG wasn't available that time.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> IMHO, they should upgrade the L39's (while sending them back to Czech Republic in rolling order in batches of three/four) because the latest example of L39 variant is L39 NG (new generation), which boasts a US-made Williams FJ-44 engine (better MTBF/MTBO and much improved reliability due to this being used in most western business jets), lighter fuselage, Italian FIAR Grifo radar, better cockpit with Boeing supplied avionics, wet wings which delete the tip-tanks, and (get this) five hard-points instead of two to support missiles such as sidewinder types. Modifications have been made to support much more load and g-force compared to L39 version that BAF uses.
> 
> Thai AF which has similar L39's like BAF, are evaluating this new trainer.
> 
> Cost is Euro 12 Million per example. Cost could be defrayed by returning the existing L39 airframes and engines (Ivchenko AI-25).
> 
> So these new L39 NG aircraft could easily be used as light attack platforms by BAF. In fact L39 variants L59/L159 have been used by IRAQI AF against ISIS. Which is really not that glowing an endorsement for a fighter, but given what it is (a trainer) is saying a lot. Tunisian AF has also used their L-59's against Al-Qaida Maghreb insurgents. Perfect Anti-insurgency platform.
> 
> Note enlarged improved e-z-crack canopy a la BAE HAWK latest versions, absence of tip tanks and modified nose, a la Yak 130 & Macchi 346.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also note new glass cockpit...


If it was up to me l39NG is a no brainer.

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## The Ronin



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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


>



Classic shot...past and future together...


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


>


i am dissapointed about the musuem, open air so these are not protected from weather + some of them have AC installed on the exterior so it's not hot for visitors inside... i think both are bad ideas if preservation is main goals


----------



## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> i am dissapointed about the musuem, open air so these are not protected from weather + some of them have AC installed on the exterior so it's not hot for visitors inside... i think both are bad ideas if preservation is main goals


Conservation?? !!!! lol 
They're just after some quick bucks! 
Conservation can go to hell! xD

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## The Ronin

New Bangladesh Air Force FM-90B SHORADS squadron spotted.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> Conservation?? !!!! lol
> They're just after making some quick bucks!
> Conservation can go to hell! xD


Yep


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## ghost250

__ https://www.facebook.com/





@defres

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force Alouette-3 helicopters, also known as Chetak, in Tejgaon Airport. You will notice that the flying one was the Kilo Flight Alouette which is equipped with rocket pods. The Jatiya Sangshad, the national assembly of the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh, is visible in the background.

#Ops Room

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Bilal9

The follow-on to the AN-32 (Made in Russia) is called the IL-112V and is already flying. First test flight was March 2019 and flight testing is proceeding apace. The layout is very different from the AN-32 we operate, and cargo-holding fuselage is much wider, capable of carrying 44 fully equipped/armed paratroopers.

Antonov - as everyone knows, is an Ukrainian company and the chances of Russians buying their planes in the future is nil.

In fact the IL-112 is a very close and much more efficient modern copy (in layout) of the Italian C-27J Spartan which is a smaller cargo transport in the USAF, a baby brother of the C-130 Hercules.






IMHO, this is a much more sturdy and robust cargo platform follow-on to the AN-32 than the new Ukrainian AN-132 itself, and has better expansion capability in the future (lengthening with a dash 200 higher capacity follow on). Observe how short and how large the cargo compartment is....



The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Good stuff.

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## bluesky

How reliable is the statement of this video clip?


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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> How reliable is the statement of this video clip?


This guy think BD will build fighter aircraft as BAC bought wind tunnel.
We used even bigger wind tunnel in university than what BAC bought..

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## bluesky

TopCat said:


> This guy think BD will build fighter aircraft as BAC bought wind tunnel.
> We used even bigger wind tunnel in university than what BAC bought..


I am rather disappointed with your harsh comments. I was expecting Made in Bangladesh civilian jet planes will bring me back to Tokyo and our fighter planes would outperform other planes in a Dubai Air Show.

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## Sehnsucht

bluesky said:


> I am rather disappointed with your harsh comments. I was expecting Made in Bangladesh civilian jet planes will bring me back to Tokyo and our fighter planes would outperform other planes in a Dubai Air Show.


As far as i know, BD has plans of making trainer aircrafts at home in near future.That too probably with assistance & TOT from another country.
Civilian jets or fighter jets are simply pipe dreams for us.


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## Indos

Petrichor said:


> As far as i know, BD has plans of making trainer aircrafts at home in near future.That too probably with assistance & TOT from another country.
> Civilian jets or fighter jets are simply pipe dreams for us.



If you have aerospace industry at home, you can start by producing N 219 airplane. If you order enough planes I believe PT Dirgantara Indonesia will give you license production of that aircraft. While learning the production process from us you can then start to offer to Airbus and Boeing proposal to make parts for their airplanes. Singapore and Malaysia get huge order just by supplying parts to those giant aircraft maker. With much low labor cost than those two nations your part production can be more competitive to them. After that you then start designing small planes to develop your design capability in step by step process.

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## Sehnsucht

Indos said:


> If you have aerospace industry at home, you can start by producing N 219 airplane. If you order enough planes I believe PT Dirgantara Indonesia will give you license production of that aircraft. While learning the production process from us you can then start to offer to Airbus and Boeing proposal to make parts for their airplanes. Singapore and Malaysia get huge order just by supplying parts to those giant aircraft maker. With much low labor cost than those two nations your part production can be more competitive to them. After that you then start designing small planes to develop your design capability in step by step process.


Unfortunately, our aerospace industry right now is almost nonexistent. Although it has started to improve somewhat in the recent years. 
I'd welcome it if Bangladesh chooses to start JV with Indonesia regarding aerospace & other sectors including military projects.Indonesia as a brotherly Muslim country can be trusted unlike China & India.

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## Indos

Petrichor said:


> Unfortunately, our aerospace industry right now is almost nonexistent. Although it has started to improve somewhat in the recent years.
> I'd welcome it if Bangladesh chooses to start JV with Indonesia regarding aerospace & other sectors including military projects.Indonesia as a brotherly Muslim country can be trusted unlike China & India.



Ya, I think China will only give technology to the nation like Pakistan which is also the enemy of India and also to nation like Thailand that become the rival of Vietnam. There is no reason for China to give any technology to either Indonesia or Bangladesh. We for instance have sign cooperation in space sector with China before but that cooperation is never heard again after the signing of that agreement. 

I think that model that I suggest can be implemented to improve your aerospace industry. For your information, despite dont have matured design capability, those aerospace industries in Singapore and Malaysia get much more revenue compared to PTDI who started much earlier in this field and have capability in design as well. Since those Giant aircraft maker (Boeing and Airbus) build planes in hundred every year, it make their part supplier can grow big as well with huge contracts without have to develop their own aircraft. I think aerospace industry can be another potential industry that can broaden your export products.

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## LKJ86

Indos said:


> Ya, I think China will only give technology to the nation like Pakistan which is also the enemy of India and also to nation like Thailand that become the rival of Vietnam. There is no reason for China to give any technology to either Indonesia or Bangladesh. We for instance have sign cooperation in space sector with China before but that cooperation is never heard again after the signing of that agreement.


Trust is a two-way thing.

You complain that China can't be trusted, but do you also consider whether you can be trusted by China?

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## The Ronin

Indos said:


> There is no reason for China to give any technology to either Indonesia or Bangladesh.



But China provided Bangladesh ToT of FN-16, Padma class OPV, Durjoy class LPC, Type 56 corvette (pending), BD-08, BD-14, BD-15, assistance to upgrade Type 59 MBT, MRO for F-7, PT-6 locally. There's even talk about local plant for Chinese missile and MRO facility for submarine. If BN choose Chinese frigate then there's chance to get that tech too. Chinese company will also produce electric aircraft here. And China provided missile tech to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran and Myanmar. So i don't understand why you are saying this.  It's not like we are dealing with Russia, if we have enough money and buy minimum number of stuff to acquire the ToT China bound to provide the tech if it's included right? Unless they change their mind in the middle of the handover.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> This guy think BD will build fighter aircraft as BAC bought wind tunnel.
> We used even bigger wind tunnel in university than what BAC bought..


Overexcited nigga. He thought we would buy mig 35, then produce it now he thinks we will have a flying fighter jet in 2-4 years and MRCA will come at the same time. Bunch of horse shit.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Overexcited nigga. He thought we would buy mig 35, then produce it now he thinks we will have a flying fighter jet in 2-4 years and MRCA will come at the same time. Bunch of horse shit.



I generally like that channel.

But he lost me with that video.

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## Imran Khan

any update of
rafale - f16 - f18 -f35 -JAS39 -su30 - su35 - su57-mig35 -Eu fighter -f22- j20- j31- j10D-delivery dates

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## The Ronin

© Royal Bengal Aviation


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## ~Phoenix~

I see MSAM and AEW&C

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## F-20 Tigershark

~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 597518
> 
> I see MSAM and AEW&C


So LY-60 is almost confirmed now?







And what do you members think of FTC-2000G? Can it be a good fighter for BD if equipped with Chinese AESA?


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## F-20 Tigershark

@Avicenna
Have you considered FTC-2000G for Bangladesh? It can function as a LIFT, and light multirole fighter with relatively good performance. JF-17 is impossible so this is the best option imo. It could allow J-10 to focus solely on air superiority while performing SEAD, CAS, OCA, and might be able to take out some Indian aircraft like Tejas, Mig-21, Mig-29, Jaguar once AESA is integrated.




















Weaponry includes
SD-10 BVRAAM
CM-102 100km ARM
FT series of PGMs
PL-9C
C-705K anti-ship missile
CM-704KG air to ground missile 25 km range
laser guided rockets


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## UKBengali

@F-20 Tigershark

Dude, can we stop it as regards the crap FTC-2000G?

BAF does not want to be in the situation of buying a fighter that is outclassed by not one but two Indian fighters. You cannot go into a fight with IAF and hope SU-30MKI and Rafale will not be around.
Like I say BD needs 2 fighters to deal with India and Myanmar due to geopolitics.

F-16 Block 52 will destroy Myanmar's JF -17 Block 2
and J-10CE will be competitive with Indian Rafale.


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## F-20 Tigershark

UKBengali said:


> @F-20 Tigershark
> 
> Dude, can we stop it as regards the crap FTC-2000G?
> 
> BAF does not want to be in the situation of buying a fighter that is outclassed by not one but two Indian fighters. You cannot go into a fight with IAF and hope SU-30MKI and Rafale will not be around.
> Like I say BD needs 2 fighters to deal with India and Myanmar due to geopolitics.
> 
> F-16 Block 52 will destroy Myanmar's JF -17 Block 2
> and J-10CE will be competitive with Indian Rafale.


J-10 will need to be procured in a *HUGE* number, air superiority is not the only role in combat and using all J-10s for that role will mean ground troops are not supported. BD does not have enough money to spend to buy even a hundred J-10s which would run at tens of billions of dollars with weapons, and bases. So your plan is unrealistic, BD needs a multirole fighter than can complement the J-10 and perform the roles that it shouldn't have to. Again, J-10 should *ONLY* perform air superiority sorties for the first few weeks of conflict while letting a lighter fighter perform SEAD, CAS, and bombing missions otherwise J-10s numbers will be slowly degraded.

Rafale will at most be eighteen aircraft on BD border, and MKI with be 50(?)


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## Imran Khan

UKBengali said:


> @F-20 Tigershark
> 
> Dude, can we stop it as regards the crap FTC-2000G?
> 
> BAF does not want to be in the situation of buying a fighter that is outclassed by not one but two Indian fighters. You cannot go into a fight with IAF and hope SU-30MKI and Rafale will not be around.
> Like I say BD needs 2 fighters to deal with India and Myanmar due to geopolitics.
> 
> F-16 Block 52 will destroy Myanmar's JF -17 Block 2
> and J-10CE will be competitive with Indian Rafale.


so what is schedule date of block52 and j-10 arrival in BD ? 30 feb 2020?

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## F-20 Tigershark

Imran Khan said:


> so what is schedule date of block52 and j-10 arrival in BD ? 30 feb 2020?


Its hopeful, F-16 has to have AMRAAMS but J-10CE is way more likely.


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## UKBengali

F-20 Tigershark said:


> J-10 will need to be procured in a *HUGE* number, air superiority is not the only role in combat and using all J-10s for that role will mean ground troops are not supported. BD does not have enough money to spend to buy even a hundred J-10s which would run at tens of billions of dollars with weapons, and bases. So your plan is unrealistic, BD needs a multirole fighter than can complement the J-10 and perform the roles that it shouldn't have to.
> 
> Rafale will at most be eighteen aircraft on BD border, and MKI with be 50(?)



Do not worry as BD has just brought 18 Kasirga MLRS with a range of 120km. It also has lots of towed artillery that can support ground troops.

Getting this crap fighter is a waste of resources, much rather buy 1/2 the number of J-10C instead.
Remember life cycle costs will maybe half that of J-10C as fuel, weapons and maintenance will be almost the same as J-10C.

My plan calls for 36 J-10CEs over the next 5 years and that is affordable for BD. More can be brought later as budget allows.


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## F-20 Tigershark

UKBengali said:


> Do not worry as BD has just brought 18 Kasirga MLRS with a range of 120km. It also has lots of towed artillery that can support ground troops.
> 
> Getting this crap fighter is a waste of resources, much rather buy 1/2 the number of J-10C instead.
> Remember life cycle costs will maybe half that of J-10C as fuel, weapons and maintenance will be almost the same as J-10C.
> 
> My plan calls for 36 J-10CEs over the next 5 years and that is affordable for BD. More can be brought later as budget allows.


Why do you think FTC-2000G is a crap fighter? What reasons can you give me?


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## UKBengali

F-20 Tigershark said:


> Why do you think FTC-2000G is a crap fighter? What reasons can you give me?



It is based on a trainer.

No amount of AESA radar and fancy weapons will give it the speed or manouverability of real fighter like F-16 or J-10.


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## F-20 Tigershark

@UKBengali 
Why would you think a fighter needs maneuverability in 2020? BVR combat is simply flying at high altitudes at mach 1 or so and launching from 70+km away.


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## UKBengali

F-20 Tigershark said:


> @UKBengali
> Why would you think a fighter needs maneuverability in 2020? BVR combat is simply flying at high altitudes at mach 1 or so and launching from 70+km away.



Two reasons:

1. Give as much energy to the missile so it can travel further - that is why you would want to be travelling at near enough Mach 2 before you launch BVR missile.
2. More chance of dodging missiles fired at you.

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## Avicenna

F-20 Tigershark said:


> @UKBengali
> Why would you think a fighter needs maneuverability in 2020? BVR combat is simply flying at high altitudes at mach 1 or so and launching from 70+km away.



I'm with @UKBengali on this one friend.

Not really interested in a souped up trainer so to speak.

Would rather see BAF embrace a new phase with new build modern 4+ gen types sourced from both the West and China.

This is both for tactical and strategic reasons.

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## F-20 Tigershark

Avicenna said:


> I'm with @UKBengali on this one friend.
> 
> Not really interested in a souped up trainer so to speak.
> 
> Would rather see BAF embrace a new phase with new build modern 4+ gen types sourced from both the West and China.
> 
> This is both for tactical and strategic reasons.


Why did you want to see JF-17 in your older posts?



UKBengali said:


> 1. Give as much energy to the missile so it can travel further - that is why you would want to be travelling at near enough Mach 2 before you launch BVR missile.


It is more of an altitude thing, plane can fly at 12-14 km and fire BVRAAM and reach pretty far range.


UKBengali said:


> 2. More chance of dodging missiles fired at you.


Isn't going to do much for you, if a missile will hit it will hit. Proximity fuses mean that dodging is close to impossible in the modern world.



Avicenna said:


> Would rather see BAF embrace a new phase with new build modern 4+ gen types sourced from both the West and China.


Well, I agree with that, BD should purchase J-10CE for air superiority, but allocating it to other missions would be wasteful. Isn't that the reason we made both F-16, and F-15 here in America?


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## UKBengali

@F-20 Tigershark 

Also you would be able to get into firing positions quicker, leave the battle space quicker and be able to dogfight better as there will be times when two fighters that are BVR capable need to dogfight.


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## F-20 Tigershark

@UKBengali 
I agree about getting to battle space quicker, but BD is a small country so that isn't a huge factor. Dogfighting is a dead sport, F-35 can't dogfight for shit but US doesn't value dogfighting.

I don't know, if BD acquires all J-10s it will put all its eggs in one basket and force J-10 to be a multirole aircraft when it should really be performing air superiority against an enemy with a quantitate and qualitative edge where again you can't be sparing the J-10. US never used F-15 for anything but air superiority until Strike Eagle.


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## Avicenna

F-20 Tigershark said:


> Why did you want to see JF-17 in your older posts?
> 
> 
> It is more of an altitude thing, plane can fly at 12-14 km and fire BVRAAM and reach pretty far range.
> 
> Isn't going to do much for you, if a missile will hit it will hit. Proximity fuses mean that dodging is close to impossible in the modern world.
> 
> 
> Well, I agree with that, BD should purchase J-10CE for air superiority, but allocating it to other missions would be wasteful. Isn't that the reason we made both F-16, and F-15 here in America?



JF-17 isn't a souped up trainer.

It's currently at the Block 3 phase and hopefully will have progressively more capable iterations.

The FTC-2000 is essentially a fully matured J-7.

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## F-20 Tigershark

Avicenna said:


> JF-17 isn't a souped up trainer.


You have to remember that FA-50 is being pursued by many nations with situations not dissimilar to Bangladesh while still being a trainer.
I think you are underestimating the capabilities of the FTC-2000G, it has the possibility to do many missions for Bangladesh that would be menial for the J-10. You also have to factor in cost, you can probably buy at least 5 squadrons for a few billion and infrastructure probably shares a lot with F-7 series already serving.


IMO It would be worth it alone for its SEAD/DEAD capabilities, those CM-102 missiles are 100km anti-radiation missiles. It could pave the way for J-10 to operate in a environment free of SAMs and allow it to solely focus on engaging Indian fighters.

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## Avicenna

F-20 Tigershark said:


> You have to remember that FA-50 is being pursued by many nations with situations not dissimilar to Bangladesh while still being a trainer.
> I think you are underestimating the capabilities of the FTC-2000G, it has the possibility to do many missions for Bangladesh that would be menial for the J-10. You also have to factor in cost, you can probably buy at least 5 squadrons for a few billion and infrastructure probably shares a lot with F-7 series already serving.
> 
> 
> IMO It would be worth it alone for its SEAD/DEAD capabilities, those CM-102 missiles are 100km anti-radiation missiles. It could pave the way for J-10 to operate in a environment free of SAMs and allow it to solely focus on engaging Indian fighters.



You make good points.

I can't disagree.

My opinion is just that of a living room warrior.

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## F-20 Tigershark

Avicenna said:


> You make good points.
> 
> I can't disagree.


I'll shutup.


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## Avicenna

F-20 Tigershark said:


> I'll shutup.



Actually, thanks for the posts.

I always appreciate people with genuine interest and sensible things to say on this thread.

Please continue.

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## F-20 Tigershark

So let me clear up, BD can use FTC-2000G for SEAD, CAS, Strike, A2A, and combat that the dedicated air superiority should not be tasked with. Combat radius is not high, but BD is not a wide country and doesn't need an aircraft with high endurance.


Loadout during a SEAD conflict with India should be
-Two CM 102 used to destroy Indian air defenses from standoff distances of 100km
-Two PL-9Cs used for close combat engagement, and dogfights
-One fuel tank center pylon to extend radius

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## F-20 Tigershark

~Phoenix~ said:


> View attachment 597518
> 
> I see MSAM and AEW&C


MSAM is LY-60, 18km range and 12km altitude.


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## Michael Corleone

F-20 Tigershark said:


> @UKBengali
> I agree about getting to battle space quicker, but BD is a small country so that isn't a huge factor. Dogfighting is a dead sport, F-35 can't dogfight for shit but US doesn't value dogfighting.
> 
> I don't know, if BD acquires all J-10s it will put all its eggs in one basket and force J-10 to be a multirole aircraft when it should really be performing air superiority against an enemy with a quantitate and qualitative edge where again you can't be sparing the J-10. US never used F-15 for anything but air superiority until Strike Eagle.


Wait for the 6th gen planes then, dogfighting will become a thing again albeit not safe for humans anymore

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## F-20 Tigershark

@UKBengali 
Forgot to mention, since FTC-2000G is twin seater I think it actually may be better for combat than single seaters. Back seater can do everything related to combat and act as weapons operator launching BVRAAMs, PGMs, CMs, anti-ship missiles, etc which allows for much easier combat levels instead of one pilot.


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## Philip the Arab

Do long range heavily armed UAVs have a future in BAF? Arguments for and against needed.


For example this WJ-700 can launch long range anti-ship missiles as well as CM-102 anti-radiation missiles allowing SOW launching distances and SEAD/DEAD.






@Avicenna


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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> Do long range heavily armed UAVs have a future in BAF? Arguments for and against needed.
> 
> 
> For example this WJ-700 can launch long range anti-ship missiles as well as CM-102 anti-radiation missiles allowing SOW launching distances and SEAD/DEAD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Avicenna




Absolutely must be under consideration and reality when finances allow. BD needs to keep its sea lanes clear and without doubt the ultimate aim must be the ability to hit IN Andaman bases and assets that are to be serviced from there.

These will provide bang for the buck.

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## bluesky

mb444 said:


> Absolutely must be under consideration and reality when finances allow. BD needs to keep its sea lanes clear and without doubt *the ultimate aim must be the ability to hit IN Andaman bases *and assets that are to be serviced from there.
> 
> These will provide bang for the buck.


A long time ago, Sukarno, the Indonesian President had commented like this, " If Andaman is not with Indonesia it should have been with east Pakistan. But, under what logic it is an Indian territory?

@Protest_again, @Axomiya_lora


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## Protest_again

bluesky said:


> A long time ago, Suharto, the Indonesian President had commented like this, " If Andaman is not with Indonesia it should have been with east Pakistan. But, under what logic it is an Indian territory?
> 
> @Protest_again, @Axomiya_lora


Lol if you are talking in distance, then it should have been Myanmar's. Culturally most of them are Hindus. But most importantly you got your own freedom because of us, you are in position to claim Andaman.

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## Nike

bluesky said:


> A long time ago, Suharto, the Indonesian President had commented like this, " If Andaman is not with Indonesia it should have been with east Pakistan. But, under what logic it is an Indian territory?
> 
> @Protest_again, @Axomiya_lora



Soekarno, not Soeharto


Btw, we are indeed had the capability militarily to taking Andaman and Nicobar back then and prevent Indian Navy to operated in Eastern side of Indian Ocean

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## mb444

Nike said:


> Soekarno, not Soeharto
> 
> 
> Btw, we are indeed had the capability militarily to taking Andaman and Nicobar back then and prevent Indian Navy to operated in Eastern side of Indian Ocean




In any conflict scenario BD first objective would be to neutralise IAF airbases followed by neutralising IN andaman bases. 

This has and remain the aim.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> In any conflict scenario BD first objective would be to neutralise IAF airbases followed by neutralising IN andaman bases.
> 
> This has and remain the aim.



Yep and that is why BA recently brought 18 Turkish T-300B 120km MLRS.


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## namefield_empty

Neutralizing Andaman airbases...

These Bangladeshis sure suffer from weird delusions. Only @bluesky understands that India has surrounded Bangladesh from all three sides with lakhs of personnel and equipments. Our airbases in Assam and WB are sufficient to give these hapless Bangladesh a reality check.

Btw, you are encouraged to spend your hard earned taka to go for a vacation to the Havelock. Just don't pole vault ( your usual habit) over to the Sentinel islands, else you might end up with a needle up your rear.



Protest_again said:


> Myanmar's


Myanmar has already been handed the Coco islands as a goodwill gesture by our visionary leaders of the past.

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## Philip the Arab

Maybe Akinci could have a future in BD, it has great SOMs that can take out Indian airbases from afar.

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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> Maybe Akinci could have a future in BD, it has great SOMs that can take out Indian airbases from afar.



Knocking out andaman base is the key to BD defense. 

Incremental and progressive increase in capability will incorporate such capability. Andaman is a fixed target and there in lies its weakness.

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## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> Knocking out andaman base is the key to BD defense.
> 
> Incremental and progressive increase in capability will incorporate such capability. Andaman is a fixed target and there in lies its weakness.


What is at Andaman?


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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> What is at Andaman?


Andaman islands are a group of islands in the indian ocean. It rightfully belongs to Bangladesh but was illigally given to indians by the british during partition. India has a naval base and will use to enforce a blockade in a time of war.

Removal of its operation capacity is of paramount importance for defense of BD.

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## bluesky

Protest_again said:


> Lol if you are talking in distance, then it should have been Myanmar's. Culturally most of them are Hindus. But most importantly you got your own freedom because of us, you are in position to claim Andaman.


Andaman was not a part of MM history at any time. Andaman should rejoin its mother country Bangladesh.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Andaman islands are a group of islands in the indian ocean. It rightfully belongs to Bangladesh but was illigally given to indians by the british during partition. India has a naval base and will use to inforce a blockade in a time of war.
> 
> Removal of its operation capacity is of paramount importance for defense of BD.



Indian Naval base in Andaman will be target of strikes by BAF and BN at opening of hostilities - that would have been one of the main reasons that BAF wanted SU-30SM.


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## Windjammer



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## MINN

according to history, the island was occupied by natives before the British arrived. Ancient kingdoms of India and Myanmar had contact with the islands since long ago. Also, the people of the islands spoke the Mon-Khmer language. They also had a Tibeto-Burmese ancestry. So I don't understand how it belongs to Bangladesh. It makes sense that India owns it because there is a large Indian population there.

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## The Ronin

Second C-130J 99-5482 (S3-AGF) of BAF.

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## The Ronin

BAF pilots in China for advanced training.

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> BAF pilots in China for advanced training.



J-10CE is coming soon.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> J-10CE is coming soon.



InshAllah.



MINN said:


> according to history, the island was occupied by natives before the British arrived. Ancient kingdoms of India and Myanmar had contact with the islands since long ago. Also, the people of the islands spoke the Mon-Khmer language. They also had a Tibeto-Burmese ancestry. So I don't understand how it belongs to Bangladesh. It makes sense that India owns it because there is a large Indian population there.



India can keep it!

https://www.businessinsider.com/ame...sentinelese-tribe-in-the-indian-ocean-2018-11

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## LKJ86

The Ronin said:


> BAF pilots in China for advanced training.


It looks like a PSed pic taken at an air show.


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> It looks like a PSed pic taken at an air show.



True!

Still China is looking for a J-10CE export.

And BD is looking for more fighters....

At the very least, its a possibility.

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## LKJ86

The Ronin said:


> Defseca says otherwise.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> True!
> 
> Still China is looking for a J-10CE export.
> 
> And BD is looking for more fighters....
> 
> At the very least, its a possibility.



I would say almost 100% certain that BAF will order J-10CE fighter within 1-2 years.
It fits all criteria - supply reliability, capability and cost.


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## LKJ86

J-10B


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## The Ronin

Yes @LKJ86 the photo is same. Thank you but i ain't the original poster. You can challenge Defseca and see what they say about it.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> True!
> 
> Still China is looking for a J-10CE export.
> 
> And BD is looking for more fighters....
> 
> At the very least, its a possibility.


In fact, J-10CE hasn't been built yet.

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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> In fact, J-10CE hasn't been built yet.



Yes as no-one has placed any orders so far.

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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> In fact, J-10CE hasn't been built yet.



I'm thinking China hopes it does get built one day, yes?

Otherwise what's the point of putting it up for sale?

https://quwa.org/2019/11/24/china-officially-promotes-j-10c-for-export/






The Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) began promoting the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) J-10C for export. Designated as the FC-20E, AVIC put a model of the fighter on display at its pavilion at the 2019 Dubai Air Show, which was held from 17-21 November 2019.

The J-10 is one of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force’s (PLAAF) mainstay multi-role fighters, serving as a light-to-mediumweight complement to its large and varied Flanker fleet.

The J-10C is the latest production variant of the J-10, following the J-10B, which introduced multiple key improvements, such as a diverterless supersonic inlet (DSI) and electronically scanning radar.

In April 2018, China’s Ministry of Defence announced that the PLAAF’s J-10Cs began taking on operational duties, indicating that the aircraft’s production and induction are both in full swing.

Marquee features of the J-10C reportedly include an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar with 1,200 transmit/receive modules (TRM) with compatibility with long-range beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles (AAM). The J-10C was also reportedly photographed with the WS-10 turbofan engine, with at least one unit boasting a thrust-vector control (TVC)-equipped system.

Until recently, AVIC had been promoting the J-10A-based FC-20 for export, but with the FC-20E, it is clear that China’s aerospace giant is looking to market a solution that better matches its competitors’ offerings.

With the FC-20E, AVIC is taking direct aim at markets the Russians and Americans are looking to access with the MiG-35 and F-16 Block-70/72, respectively. These markets are generally looking for modern, but cost-effective multi-role fighters with contemporary sub-systems, such as AESA radars.

However, in most cases, AVIC’s main competition will be Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), which is marketing the MiG-35 as a lower-cost alternative to Western fighters, especially in Africa.

According to an apparent promotional flyer of the FC-20E (previously termed as the J-10CE), the fighter’s specifications are as follows:


Length: 16.9 m
Wingspan: 9.7 m
Height: 5.7 m
Max Mach Number: 1.8
A/A Combat Radius 1,240 km/2,600 km (Air-to-Air Refueling)
Max. Ferry Range: 2,950 km
*Notes & Comments:*

Under its original plan for 2015, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had intended to procure 36 FC-20 (i.e., J-10A) to carry its “deep strike” objectives.[1] However, a shortage of funding and, apparently, greater confidence in the JF-17 program (or the J-10A not offering enough benefits for the added cost) shelved those plans.

*For More Information on the Pakistan Air Force, Check Out:*


Pakistan Makes Progress on Next-Gen Fighter Program
Pakistan Inches Closer to Inducting the JF-17 Block 3
…and more!
Today, it appears that the PAF has largely shelved its plans for an off-the-shelf fighter. Rather, it seems to have opted to focus on developing the JF-17 and, for the future, invest in a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) program under Project Azm. In other words, it will eschew importing fighters.

However, these plans can change. As an example, the previous Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman stated, “Pakistan definitely has to induct new aircraft. We have both Chinese and Russian options.” Thus, with altered circumstances (such as the risk of frequent escalations with India or delays in Project Azm) could see the PAF change tracts again depending on its threat-assessments.

[1] Alan Warnes. “The Pakistan Air Force – 1998-2008: A New Dawn”. 2009. p18-20

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## Michael Corleone

MINN said:


> according to history, the island was occupied by natives before the British arrived. Ancient kingdoms of India and Myanmar had contact with the islands since long ago. Also, the people of the islands spoke the Mon-Khmer language. They also had a Tibeto-Burmese ancestry. So I don't understand how it belongs to Bangladesh. It makes sense that India owns it because there is a large Indian population there.


Lmao arakan was part of bengal and in effect those islands should have been too. But the British divided the region for their ease of administration.

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Lmao arakan was part of bengal and in effect those islands should have been too. But the British divided the region for their ease of administration.


Britishers*


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## Michael Corleone

Windjammer said:


>


How did you like it?

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## MINN

Michael Corleone said:


> Lmao arakan was part of bengal and in effect those islands should have been too. But the British divided the region for their ease of administration.


the islands are nowhere near Arakan it was close to Pegu kingdom. Also give me proof of Bengal or Arakan ever occupying the Island.

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## Michael Corleone

MINN said:


> the islands are nowhere near Arakan it was close to Pegu kingdom. Also give me proof of Bengal or Arakan ever occupying the Island.


The island definitely belonged to India before the British and specifically the bengal

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## Philip the Arab

Guys, can we confirm that LY-60 is coming to Bangladesh now after numerous brochures showing it?


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## Windjammer

Michael Corleone said:


> How did you like it?


Yes the interception part was good, however, they should have paid more attention on the dialogue....
Like the Hunter leader giving the intruding pilot the following warning.... I mean how can you make someone to force-land if you are going to shoot him down.

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## Haris Ali2140

@Michael Corleone @UKBengali @The Ronin @Avicenna 
Hey what about Gripen??? Its an excellent jet on par with F-16 and J-10. It will also have goodies like Meteorvand storm shadow and an excellent EW package.


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## Philip the Arab

Windjammer said:


> Yes the interception part was good, however, they should have paid more attention on the dialogue....
> Like the Hunter leader giving the intruding pilot the following warning.... I mean how can you make someone to force-land if you are going to shoot him down.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 599499


I laughed my *** off at that part.



Haris Ali2140 said:


> @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @The Ronin @Avicenna
> Hey what about Gripen??? Its an excellent jet on par with F-16 and J-10. It will also have goodies like Meteorvand storm shadow and an excellent EW package.


Gripen is a good jet, but it is prone to sanctions by America because many parts are not indigenous like engine, and avionics. In a war with India, it would be prone to being sanctioned if used against India.

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## Windjammer

Philip the Arab said:


> I laughed my *** off at that part.



There are a few other clangers as well.....but lets not spoil the fun.


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## UKBengali

Haris Ali2140 said:


> @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @The Ronin @Avicenna
> Hey what about Gripen??? Its an excellent jet on par with F-16 and J-10. It will also have goodies like Meteorvand storm shadow and an excellent EW package.




Impossible when US said it wanted BD to buy US weapons - i.e F-16.

US can block the sale as they supply the engine for Gripen.

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## Avicenna

Windjammer said:


> There are a few other clangers as well.....but lets not spoil the fun.



The reality is this short film made Top Gun look like a documentary.

But its a nice film regardless.

Also, the cockpit view of the F-7BG/BGI is looking good in that grey camo.

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## Philip the Arab

Is Russia the only option for a strike fighter like Su-30?


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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> Is Russia the only option for a strike fighter like Su-30?




I think China has made a gentleman's agreement with Russia not to sell on their J-11 series.

F-15 from USA is probably out of the question for BD.

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## Michael Corleone

Haris Ali2140 said:


> @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @The Ronin @Avicenna
> Hey what about Gripen??? Its an excellent jet on par with F-16 and J-10. It will also have goodies like Meteorvand storm shadow and an excellent EW package.


It’s out of questions for many reasons. Could get jf17 instead of that and we won’t have our hands tied with so many things, engines... missiles etc



Windjammer said:


> Yes the interception part was good, however, they should have paid more attention on the dialogue....
> Like the Hunter leader giving the intruding pilot the following warning.... I mean how can you make someone to force-land if you are going to shoot him down.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 599499


I get you. I was startled at that part too. But by far the show has improved. None of that cuck songs every five minute but told a decent story. I expect a sequel of this next year... maybe pilot training in jet conversion

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> It’s out of questions for many reasons. Could get jf17 instead of that and we won’t have our hands tied with so many things, engines... missiles etc


Thought you said JF-17 was shitty though?



UKBengali said:


> I think China has made a gentleman's agreement with Russia not to sell on their J-11 series.
> 
> F-15 from USA is probably out of the question for BD.


Heavy UAVs are an option, they could probably take out Indian bases at Andaman and return back assuming there was a sat link.


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## Avicenna

Haris Ali2140 said:


> @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @The Ronin @Avicenna
> Hey what about Gripen??? Its an excellent jet on par with F-16 and J-10. It will also have goodies like Meteorvand storm shadow and an excellent EW package.



In theory (in terms of tactical capability) Gripen is a great choice. (Especially for the F-7 replacement option)

But politically and probably financially its out of the question when given all the factors going into this decision.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Thought you said JF-17 was shitty though?


We already have fighters in its weight class that do not serve much purpose. J10 is the way to go

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> We already have fighters in its weight class that do not serve much purpose. J10 is the way to go


JF-17 isn't F-7 but regardless J-10 is the way to go as well as heavy UAVs with the range to hit Andaman and back.


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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> Heavy UAVs are an option, they could probably take out Indian bases at Andaman and return back assuming there was a sat link.



They would be vulnerable to interception from SU-30MKIs based on the Island.

Best get hold of cruise missiles and fire them from both submarines and frigates of BN. A barrage or so of 100 should shut down the base for enough time.

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## Philip the Arab

UKBengali said:


> They would be vulnerable to interception from SU-30MKIs based on the Island.
> 
> Best get hold of cruise missiles and fire them from both submarines and frigates of BN. A barrage or so of 100 should shut down the base for enough time.


How about Russian 1000 ton ships with Klub cruise missiles?

Su-30MKI would have to detect it, wonder if there are stealth UAVs made by China that could evade interception even if it was a suicide mission.


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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> How about Russian 1000 ton ships with Klub cruise missiles?
> 
> Su-30MKI would have to detect it, wonder if there are stealth UAVs made by China that could evade interception even if it was a suicide mission.




Weapons would need to be carried internally in this case and no UAV could carry more than 2 cruise missiles. You would need literally dozens and as soon as the missiles are launched they would show up on radar and even put the UAVs itself at risk of being shot down by BVRs fired by SU-30MKIs who would use their superior speed to close in and fire.

Best to launch from submarine and ship where they could stay out of radar detection till the last minutes as they skim the ocean to their target.

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## Philip the Arab

Can we agree that JF-17 Block III is better than anything currently in BAF?

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Weapons would need to be carried internally in this case and no UAV could carry more than 2 cruise missiles. You would need literally dozens and as soon as the missiles are launched they would show up on radar and even put the UAVs itself at risk of being shot down by BVRs fired by SU-30MKIs who would use their superior speed to close in and fire.
> 
> Best to launch from submarine and ship where they could stay out of radar detection till the last minutes as they skim the ocean to their target.



Only if SUs are in the sky at that point in time i guess...

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Can we agree that JF-17 Block III is better than anything currently in BAF?



Of course.

LOL!

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Of course.
> 
> LOL!


So why not just buy some as a stop gap measure and then buy the J-31? J-31 will be better than everything in Indian service no doubt.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> So why not just buy some as a stop gap measure and then buy the J-31?



100 roads to the same destination.

Each with its own sets of pros and cons.

Up to the shot callers in BAF.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> 100 roads to the same destination.
> 
> Each with its own sets of pros and cons.
> 
> Up to the shot callers in BAF.


I dunno, J-10 will only be good for so long (15 years at the most) before India acquires a fifth gen fighter that will absolutely hump the J-10 and everything else in BD. J-31 would last 30+ years and be able to do a lot against anything India throws at it for 15+ years.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> I dunno, J-10 will only be good for so long (15 years at the most) before India acquires a fifth gen fighter that will absolutely hump the J-10 and everything else in BD. J-31 would last 30+ years and be able to do a lot against anything India throws at it for 15+ years.



Not so sure about that.

IAF procurement delays makes BAF procurement look like speedy Gonzalez.

Also BAF probably has a tremendous skills gap at present to even adequately employ a 4+ gen type.

I say BAF build the support needed both in skills and equipment to at least support a sizable 4+ gen fleet now.

Then look to 5 gen.

Also it appears adoption of 5th gen will be slower than in the past due to cost etc.

So J-10, F-16, EFT is perfectly fine for BAF at present and the foreseeable future.

I would however keep the BG and BGI around and eye the 5th gen types for possible replacement of those in the future.

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## Philip the Arab

@Avicenna 
I see, and what is your opinion on JF-17 Block III? Is it better than some fighters in Indian air force?


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> @Avicenna
> I see, and what is your opinion on JF-17 Block III? Is it better than some fighters in Indian air force?



Probably.

But difficult to say at this point when we have such limited public info.

But in theory yes.

Also inshAllah.

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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> Probably.
> 
> But difficult to say at this point when we have such limited public info.
> 
> But in theory yes.
> 
> Also inshAllah.


Ngl, I think BD with JF-17 Block III could take out most fighters in Eastern Air Command with the exception of Rafale, and Su-30MKI which aren't that numerous and could be taken care of by J-10.

I sincerely hope that during a conflict BD air force will use its army's MLRS to its advantage and take care of IAF air bases.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Ngl, I think BD with JF-17 Block III could take out most fighters in Eastern Air Command with the exception of Rafale, and Su-30MKI which aren't that numerous and could be taken care of by J-10.
> 
> I sincerely hope that during a conflict BD air force will use its army's MLRS to its advantage and take care of IAF air bases.



I doubt Block 3 is in the cards given everything.

Kinda exciting though because all this speculation IS based on the reality that new fighters will be bought.

Which is always a significant event for an Air Force as well as nation.


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> I doubt Block 3 is in the cards given everything.
> 
> Kinda exciting though because all this speculation IS based on the reality that new fighters will be bought.


So BD will have just a Hi fighter but no Lo fighter?

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> So BD will have just a Hi fighter but no Lo fighter?



No idea man.

Your guess is as good as mine.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> They would be vulnerable to interception from SU-30MKIs based on the Island.
> 
> Best get hold of cruise missiles and fire them from both submarines and frigates of BN. A barrage or so of 100 should shut down the base for enough time.


I don’t think India deployed su30 on the islands


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## Philip the Arab

Avicenna said:


> No idea man.
> 
> Your guess is as good as mine.


I said this before and I'll say it again, J-10CE should only be an air superiority fighter and not have to do the missions that should be relegated to lighter fighters like the JF-17 CAS, OCA, SEAD, etc are all missions that are "extra" for the J-10.


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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> I said this before and I'll say it again, J-10CE should only be an air superiority fighter and not have to do the missions that should be relegated to lighter fighters like the JF-17 CAS, OCA, SEAD, etc are all missions that are "extra" for the J-10.



I wish I had some formal education on this based on more than playing campaign based flights sims in my youth.

LOL.

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> I dunno, J-10 will only be good for so long (15 years at the most) before India acquires a fifth gen fighter that will absolutely hump the J-10 and everything else in BD. J-31 would last 30+ years and be able to do a lot against anything India throws at it for 15+ years.


Not really. If EFT is to enter service with j10 they won’t be humped by fifth gen Indian jets because it’s not like these products are at the end of life cycle. For India to hum supposed EFT and j10 they would need 6th gen jets that will bring emphasis on unmanned aircraft with much more sustained gloads and raw kinetic performance.

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Not really. If EFT is to enter service with j10 they won’t be humped by fifth gen Indian jets because it’s not like these products are at the end of life cycle. For India to hum supposed EFT and j10 they would need 6th gen jets that will bring emphasis on unmanned aircraft with much more sustained gloads and raw kinetic performance.


Su-57 will absolutely hump both of those fighters. Defense analysts even think J-31 will outclass any 4th gen aircraft in the world.

U.S. military and industry officials believe that once the J-31 enters service, it will likely be more than a match for existing fourth-generation fighters like the F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.


Avicenna said:


> I wish I had some formal education on this based on more than playing campaign based flights sims in my youth.
> 
> LOL.


I just learned this from YouTube, and Wikipedia so I'm no expert either but learned lessons from USAF, and Soviet structuring.

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> Su-57 will absolutely hump both of those fighters. Defense analysts even think J-31 will outclass any 4th gen aircraft in the world.
> 
> 
> I just learned this from YouTube, and Wikipedia so I'm no expert either but learned lessons from USAF, and Soviet structuring.



Yea I mean I admit to only have superficial knowledge of all this.

I wish I had a deeper understanding to think about and analyze these things in a more meaningful manner.

Oh well, I chose a different path.

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## Philip the Arab

@Avicenna 
This is what I mean by Hi-Lo, but in this case J-10 is Hi and JF-17 is Lo

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## Avicenna

Philip the Arab said:


> @Avicenna
> This is what I mean by Hi-Lo, but in this case J-10 is Hi and JF-17 is Lo



Yea I’m familiar.

But I mean not sure what BAF is thinking or will do.

I think they had a plan of least resistance before late 2017.

Now it got all messed but however may be a blessing in disguise.

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## Philip the Arab

Going to be a beast in BD service if it comes for sure.
J-10CE with PL-15 will be able to take out Indian AWACS, and tankers at standoff ranges and allow other J-10CEs to take out Indian fighters while using AWACS. 
In this scenario even JF-17 would be able tear up Su-30MKI by networking and AWACS which would relegate Su-30MKI to the role of a blind boxer against a street gang.

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Su-57 will absolutely hump both of those fighters. Defense analysts even think J-31 will outclass any 4th gen aircraft in the world.
> 
> U.S. military and industry officials believe that once the J-31 enters service, it will likely be more than a match for existing fourth-generation fighters like the F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.
> 
> I just learned this from YouTube, and Wikipedia so I'm no expert either but learned lessons from USAF, and Soviet structuring.


But su57 would first need to be exported into mass market for that to be a threat to the fleet. And as for j31... as soon as it’s solved it’s payload/ fuel load problem. I reckon it needs to be enlarged and that creates its own issues.

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> I don’t think India deployed su30 on the islands



IAF has one squadron of SU-30MKIs based there.

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## Philip the Arab

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201805101064325750-indian-jets-andaman-nicobar-islands/


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> IAF has one squadron of SU-30MKIs based there.


Damn, what a waste... humidity and salty environment must not be king to them airframes. I noticed latest mig 29 photos of a UB variant, the humidity made most of the paint peel off... you can only imagine those sukhois

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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> Damn, what a waste... humidity and salty environment must not be king to them airframes. I noticed latest mig 29 photos of a UB variant, the humidity made most of the paint peel off... you can only imagine those sukhois


Wonder how BD could take them out, they would have to use CMs, or BMs.


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> Wonder how BD could take them out, they would have to use CMs, or BMs.


PL 15 all the way


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> PL 15 all the way


The airbases themselves*


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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> The airbases themselves*


What’s on your mind for those?


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## Philip the Arab

Michael Corleone said:


> What’s on your mind for those?


What do you mean by what's on my mind? Are you asking how can they be destroyed?


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## Destranator

Philip the Arab said:


> Wonder how BD could take them out, they would have to use CMs, or BMs.


We need to develop triads of ballistic and cruise missiles for effective deterence against enemy missile and/or artillery strikes.

A guranteed devastating retaliation would ensure India and Myanmar avoid confrontation and prioritise diplomatic cooperation and compromise.

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## Michael Corleone

Philip the Arab said:


> What do you mean by what's on my mind? Are you asking how can they be destroyed?


Yep


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## Avicenna

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-air-force-senior-officials-visit-russia/

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/defence-officials-inspect-buk-m3-air-defence-systems/

Back to Russia?

Is this a joke?

WTH is going on?


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## BanglarBagh

Avicenna said:


> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-air-force-senior-officials-visit-russia/
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/defence-officials-inspect-buk-m3-air-defence-systems/
> 
> Back to Russia?
> 
> Is this a joke?
> 
> WTH is going on?



I dont trust defseca. Not reliable at all at least for MRCA. They reported every possible fighter(Su-30, Mig-35, J-10, F-16, EFT) and said the deal is done or almost done. If we were to believe them it is possible to see 5 different fighters in BAF.
Back to this recent news about BAF officials visiting Russia I seriously hope it's not for the MRCA. But knowing BAF indecision and incompetence we might just end up seeing 16 MiG-35 in BD colors!

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## The Ronin

Quick Reaction Force (QRF) member of Bangladesh Air Force with Night vision device. 









Avicenna said:


> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-air-force-senior-officials-visit-russia/
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/defence-officials-inspect-buk-m3-air-defence-systems/
> 
> Back to Russia?
> 
> Is this a joke?
> 
> WTH is going on?



For maritime strike fighter and SAM. That's why we need to keep calm and wait patiently for official announcement. Nothing is confirmed yet.


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## Imran Khan

The Ronin said:


> Quick Reaction Force (QRF) member of Bangladesh Air Force with Night vision device.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For maritime strike fighter and SAM. That's why we need to keep calm and wait patiently for official announcement. Nothing is confirmed yet.


did they buy it from alibaba ?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Performance-Gen2-Gen3-Military-Safety_60367440295.html


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## ghost250

Imran Khan said:


> did they buy it from alibaba ?
> 
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Performance-Gen2-Gen3-Military-Safety_60367440295.html


does ur air force buy from alibaba??


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## Imran Khan

ghost250 said:


> does ur air force buy from alibaba??


its MH electronics brand . as soon as i see i thought they ordered online  you can buy few too .


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## ghost250

Imran Khan said:


> its MH electronics brand . as soon as i see i thought they ordered online  you can buy few too .


seriously man ...1600-3000 dollar??!!um too poor to buy one

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## Imran Khan

ghost250 said:


> seriously man ...1600-3000 dollar??!!um too poor to buy one


wish you best of luck hope you will have too much cash in future .


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## PDF

ghost250 said:


> does ur air force buy from alibaba??








We are producing them ourselves and that is score old news. Indigenous and licence built both.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-has-ability-to-manufacture-night-vision-equipments.10628/

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## Destranator

Hachiman said:


> View attachment 600226
> 
> We are producing them ourselves and that is score old news. Indigenous and licence built both.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-has-ability-to-manufacture-night-vision-equipments.10628/



Nice. Good for you.

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## The Ronin

Tomorrow Defense Ministry will hold a meeting for "Acceptance of Necessity" where they will discuss about projects taken by BAF in 2019-20 FY, approve and allocate budget for them.

https://mod.gov.bd/site/notices/ef2...-RhQAO9K88INNkdwHG0JYpYw4Y9fK43Ifsc2FNT09P9Pk






Air Commodore Khosrul Alom was the first BAF officer to be certified as Mig-29UB pilot by MAPO on 27th May, 1995.











BAF issued tender for VVIP helicopter. 

https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc...3CnA1V4KqjlL5C23YfcjjirndpASFMhiC_4-JSHIfAeoo

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Tomorrow Defense Ministry will hold a meeting for "Acceptance of Necessity" where they will discuss about projects taken by BAF in 2019-20 FY, approve and allocate budget for them.
> 
> https://mod.gov.bd/site/notices/ef2...-RhQAO9K88INNkdwHG0JYpYw4Y9fK43Ifsc2FNT09P9Pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air Commodore Khosrul Alom was the first BAF officer to be certified as Mig-29UB pilot by MAPO on 27th May, 1995.


This is the first time such notice is being put up in a long time no? Major project to be fulfilled soon I guess

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> This is the first time such notice is being put up in a long time no? Major project to be fulfilled soon I guess


This is a routine bureaucratic exercise.


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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> I dont trust defseca. Not reliable at all at least for MRCA. They reported every possible fighter(Su-30, Mig-35, J-10, F-16, EFT) and said the deal is done or almost done. If we were to believe them it is possible to see 5 different fighters in BAF.
> Back to this recent news about BAF officials visiting Russia I seriously hope it's not for the MRCA. But knowing BAF indecision and incompetence we might just end up seeing 16 MiG-35 in BD colors!



What's wrong if they end up getting MIG 35? IAF is a happy customer with MIG 29 with 100+ in Air Force and Navy... Going for 21 additional Fulcrums shows how capable birds are Fulcrums.... We are allies and it will give us both a commonality if BD also operated fulcrum 35.... 

MIG 35 is huge upgrade over MIG 29.... Yes Russian jets require high maintenance though....


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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> What's wrong if they end up getting MIG 35? IAF is a happy customer with MIG 29 with 100+ in Air Force and Navy... Going for 21 additional Fulcrums shows how capable birds are Fulcrums.... We are allies and it will give us both a commonality if BD also operated fulcrum 35....
> 
> MIG 35 is huge upgrade over MIG 29.... Yes Russian jets require high maintenance though....



IAF might be a happy customer but it's BAF we are talking about. Russia took MM side in the Rohingya issue so buying crucial platforms from them is an absolute mistake. Also buying Russian high tech platforms now would earn BD heavy sanctions from the US. So to sum it up we can't use Russian platforms against both our neighbors in a situation of impending conflicts.

China also took MM side but we can freely use Chinese platforms against India. And for MM we are looking towards the west. A very balanced approach IMO.

Finally, who said we are allies?! India is the biggest threat to our sovereignty no matter what BD Govt. says, period!!!

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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> IAF might be a happy customer but it's BAF we are talking about. Russia took MM side in the Rohingya issue so buying crucial platforms from them is an absolute mistake. Also buying Russian high tech platforms now would earn BD heavy sanctions from the US. So to sum it up we can't use Russian platforms against both our neighbors in a situation of impending conflicts.
> 
> China also took MM side but we can freely use Chinese platforms against India. And for MM we are looking towards the west. A very balanced approach IMO.
> 
> Finally, who said we are allies?! India is the biggest threat to our sovereignty no matter what BD Govt. says, period!!!



India a biggest threat to Bangladesh security? What are you saying? Bangladesh killed our troops mercilessly in early 2000 and sent body bags... forcibly occupied our territory Chit Mahal and still India kept quite.... and you say India a threat to your security? 

Don't at all think that China will prefer Bangladesh over Burma... 

Burma is a strategic ally of China.... to China it's as important east Asian ally as its west Asian ally Pakistan.... some year's back their was an article in newspaper that there are some underground labs were observed by USA which resembled nuclear enrichment sites.... there are many many hidden nuclear powers on this planet that we don't even know... Burma surely one among those.... don't at all think that you will have any upper hand over Burma in war with Chinese weapons.... Russia at least least don't interfere once they get their payments and vodka....

And your govt at least consider India as their allies so having common hardware makes sense.... who knows India might even allow you to use it's air space and bases to use against Burma in war...

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## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> India a biggest threat to Bangladesh security? What are you saying? Bangladesh killed our troops mercilessly in early 2000 and sent body bags... forcibly occupied our territory Chit Mahal and still India kept quite.... and you say India a threat to your security?
> 
> Don't at all think that China will prefer Bangladesh over Burma...
> 
> Burma is a strategic ally of China.... to China it's as important east Asian ally as its west Asian ally Pakistan.... some year's back their was an article in newspaper that there are some underground labs were observed by USA which resembled nuclear enrichment sites.... there are many many hidden nuclear powers on this planet that we don't even know... Burma surely one among those.... don't at all think that you will have any upper hand over Burma in war with Chinese weapons.... Russia at least least don't interfere once they get their payments and vodka....
> 
> And your govt at least consider India as their allies so having common hardware makes sense.... who knows India might even allow you to use it's air space and bases to use against Burma in war...



https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/will-myanmars-navy-get-its-first-submarine-from-the-indian-navy/

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

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## vishwambhar

Avicenna said:


> https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/will-myanmars-navy-get-its-first-submarine-from-the-indian-navy/
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies?



If Bangladesh shows interest in our Tejas do you think India will say no? Now before you say who needs that junk and BD won't buy it let me clear that I'm just giving you an example....

Bangladesh today have an access and money for European fighters too which can give them an upper hand over Burma in small scale war..... not the long term wars though....

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> India a biggest threat to Bangladesh security? What are you saying? Bangladesh killed our troops mercilessly in early 2000 and sent body bags... forcibly occupied our territory Chit Mahal and still India kept quite.... and you say India a threat to your security?
> 
> Don't at all think that China will prefer Bangladesh over Burma...
> 
> Burma is a strategic ally of China.... to China it's as important east Asian ally as its west Asian ally Pakistan.... some year's back their was an article in newspaper that there are some underground labs were observed by USA which resembled nuclear enrichment sites.... there are many many hidden nuclear powers on this planet that we don't even know... Burma surely one among those.... don't at all think that you will have any upper hand over Burma in war with Chinese weapons.... Russia at least least don't interfere once they get their payments and vodka....
> 
> And your govt at least consider India as their allies so having common hardware makes sense.... who knows India might even allow you to use it's air space and bases to use against Burma in war...



Dont make laugh. India already took MM side in Rohigya issue. Your Govt. even gifted them with a sub to counter BN. What a loyal ally you are! We dont need backstabbing ally like you.
China will not prefer BD over MM that is a fact. That's why I said BD is looking for western platform to counter MM. And China will surely prefer BD over India, also a fact. As for Russia they tried to sell us MiG-35 when we wanted Su-30. Now they are selling Su-30 to MAF, so much for not taking sides. BD govt. is overly friendly to India because they need the support to stay in power nothing more.
The general population sees India as a threat and even more so after the BJP antics. So, we are not allies!!!



vishwambhar said:


> If Bangladesh shows interest in our Tejas do you think India will say no? Now before you say who needs that junk and BD won't buy it let me clear that I'm just giving you an example....
> 
> Bangladesh today have an access and money for European fighters too which can give them an upper hand over Burma in small scale war..... not the long term wars though....



I dont know if tejas is a junk or a beast so I'm not going to say anything like that. However, your govt. has been begging BD to take $500M credit to buy Indian weapons and every time to be rejected though. No chance of getting crucial platform from India. Maybe a few patrol boats if BD military finally agrees!!


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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> Dont make laugh. India already took MM side in Rohigya issue. Your Govt. even gifted them with a sub to counter BN. What a loyal ally you are! We dont need backstabbing ally like you.
> China will not prefer BD over MM that is a fact. That's why I said BD is looking for western platform to counter MM. And China will surely prefer BD over India, also a fact. As for Russia they tried to sell us MiG-35 when we wanted Su-30. Now they are selling Su-30 to MAF, so much for not taking sides. BD govt. is overly friendly to India because they need the support to stay in power nothing more.
> The general population sees India as a threat and even more so after the BJP antics. So, we are not allies!!!



China will not prefer BD over India due to trade agreements... India is obviously a bigger market and in our border dispute BD location doesn't offer them any strategic advantage.... as I said that BD will have tactical advantages over India/ MM if it goes for western fighters but if Burma and India decides to drag the war longer then BD won't be able to survive longer.... you need numbers to survive.... you can buy 2 MIG 35s at the cost of one Typhoon with similar capabilities.....

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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> I dont know if tejas is a junk or a beast so I'm not going to say anything like that. However, your govt. has been begging BD to take $500M credit to buy Indian weapons and every time to be rejected though. No chance of getting crucial platform from India. Maybe a few patrol boats if BD military finally agrees!!



You didn't read my post properly... I know BD will never buy Tejas as they have access to Typhoons, Gripen, F16 latest blocks.... I was just giving an example.... but don't say BD will never buy anything crucial from India... if we offer you our bramhos, K series and Agni series you will run and pay us in billions....

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/will-myanmars-navy-get-its-first-submarine-from-the-indian-navy/
> 
> With friends like these, who needs enemies?




Not to mention that India sold Myanmar torpedoes as soon as BD brought submarines.

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## Goku

vishwambhar said:


> You didn't read my post properly... I know BD will never buy Tejas as they have access to Typhoons, Gripen, F16 latest blocks.... I was just giving an example.... but don't say BD will never buy anything crucial from India... if we offer you our bramhos, K series and Agni series you will run and pay us in billions....


Agni series isnt for a sale its an ICBM , critical tech only few nations have it. 
And Bangladesh is our transactional ally , no ally is friend or enemy for ever. If our and Bangladesh's interest converge we will be allies , when it doesn't we wont. Simple. Same with Myanmar. 
We just want peaceful relations with Bangladesh so that both can develop and one less hostile front.



UKBengali said:


> Not to mention that India sold Myanmar torpedoes as soon as BD brought submarines.


We need to maintain relations with Myanmar. Even Bangladesh is buying weapons from China isnt it?. So there's no such thing as ally or enemy its all transactional.
If Bangladesh can engage with both China and India , similarly we will engage with both Bangladesh and Myanmar

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## vishwambhar

Goku said:


> Agni series isnt for a sale its an ICBM , critical tech only few nations have it.
> And Bangladesh is our transactional ally , no ally is friend or enemy for ever. If our and Bangladesh's interest converge we will be allies , when it doesn't we wont. Simple. Same with Myanmar.
> We just want peaceful relations with Bangladesh so that both can develop and one less hostile front.
> 
> 
> We need to maintain relations with Myanmar. Even Bangladesh is buying weapons from China isnt it?. So there's no such thing as ally or enemy its all transactional.
> If Bangladesh can engage with both China and India , similarly we will engage with both Bangladesh and Myanmar



I know brother... i was again giving an example.... off course ICBM or K series are not for sale... but no BD member here will deny that BD will pay us handsomely if we offer to arm their warships with bramhos....

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## Goku

vishwambhar said:


> I know brother... i was again giving an example.... off course ICBM or K series are not for sale... but no BD member here will deny that BD will pay us handsomely if we offer to arm their warships with bramhos....


If they want they will ask. But as of now they are happy with China and the US. Every nation has its own priority.

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## Pakistani Fighter

UKBengali said:


> Not to mention that India sold Myanmar torpedoes as soon as BD brought submarines.


Which torpedos?


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## vishwambhar

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Which torpedos?



I think Indian made Varunastra...I'm not sure as my friend told me that

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## Pakistani Fighter

vishwambhar said:


> I think Indian made Varunastra...I'm not sure as my friend told me that


Wow..they have 30km range

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> You didn't read my post properly... I know BD will never buy Tejas as they have access to Typhoons, Gripen, F16 latest blocks.... I was just giving an example.... but don't say BD will never buy anything crucial from India... if we offer you our bramhos, K series and Agni series you will run and pay us in billions....



Lol!
Ok make the offer then. Let's see if we run or you get rejected again! Dont assume anything before making the offer. Because, ur $500M credit offer has been rejected over and over again!!


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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> IAF might be a happy customer but it's BAF we are talking about. Russia took MM side in the Rohingya issue so buying crucial platforms from them is an absolute mistake. Also buying Russian high tech platforms now would earn BD heavy sanctions from the US. So to sum it up we can't use Russian platforms against both our neighbors in a situation of impending conflicts.
> 
> China also took MM side but we can freely use Chinese platforms against India. And for MM we are looking towards the west. A very balanced approach IMO.
> 
> Finally, who said we are allies?! India is the biggest threat to our sovereignty no matter what BD Govt. says, period!!!


There are many things defseca reported that was not true at the end but there are things that nobody believed but now becoming a possible reality. Like Apache. Keep calm. I’m sure we will end up seeing the reality soon

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## vishwambhar

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Wow..they have 30km range



40 km...


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## ghost250

vishwambhar said:


> I think Indian made *Varunastra*...I'm not sure as my friend told me that


nope..shyena torpedo..

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/ind...indigenously-built-torpedoes-to-myanmar-navy/

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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> Lol!
> Ok make the offer then. Let's see if we run or you get rejected again! Dont assume anything before making the offer. Because, ur $500M credit offer has been rejected over and over again!!



I'm saying IF we offer as you said BD will never buy anything crucial from India... except bramhos K series and Agni series are not allowed for sale as per international law but bramhos induction can turn BD navy into second most powerful navy overnight in South Asia... considering Burma threat I guess BD will have no problem in accepting this... 500 milion credit offer we don't know what is actually being offered.... however they at least purchased kilo submarine with torpedo....



Michael Corleone said:


> There are many things defseca reported that was not true at the end but there are things that nobody believed but now becoming a possible reality. Like Apache. Keep calm. I’m sure we will end up seeing the reality soon



Either MIG 35s or Rafales I would love to see in Bangladesh airforce... we are strategic allies and we need to have commonality in platforms....


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## Michael Corleone

vishwambhar said:


> Either MIG 35s or Rafales I would love to see in Bangladesh airforce... we are strategic allies and we need to have commonality in platforms....


Bangladesh never saw India as a strategic ally, if it did... it wouldn’t need to spend on military at all. We’re just trading partners. That’s all

strong scent of EFT however. I was a disbeliever until a month or so ago

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> I'm saying IF we offer as you said BD will never buy anything crucial from India... except bramhos K series and Agni series are not allowed for sale as per international law but bramhos induction can turn BD navy into second most powerful navy overnight in South Asia... considering Burma threat I guess BD will have no problem in accepting this... 500 milion credit offer we don't know what is actually being offered.... however they at least purchased kilo submarine with torpedo....
> 
> 
> 
> Either MIG 35s or Rafales I would love to see in Bangladesh airforce... we are strategic allies and we need to have commonality in platforms....



Well this argument is going nowhere! So, no point in continuing. However, I have a final question. U claimed we are allies right? So, why did India take MM side during the rohingya crisiss? Why is India arming MM(specially the sub)? What kind of an ally is this? I'm very curious to know.....


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## vishwambhar

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh never saw India as a strategic ally, if it did... it wouldn’t need to spend on military at all. We’re just trading partners. That’s all
> 
> strong scent of EFT however. I was a disbeliever until a month or so ago



It seems they will go for Eurufighter Typhoon or viper block 72 but both are damn costly and BD won't be able to procure in numbers.... after initial tactical gains against Burma such low numbers won't help to gain decisive results in BD favor... Burma will return the favor in stretched war.... not to mention China is sitting next door to take care of supplies and logistics support to Burma.... wars are won by the country who is able to keep up with the losses and stand strong to bleed opponents.... circumstances favor Burma... if BD wants to have an upper hand than they need qty with Russian platforms like MIG 35s and strategic partner like India next to its border who will service those jets, provide weapons from its own MIG 29... overall ease the burden

Lovely MIG 35 in action








BanglarBagh said:


> Well this argument is going nowhere! So, no point in continuing. However, I have a final question. U claimed we are allies right? So, why did India take MM side during the rohingya crisiss? Why is India arming MM(specially the sub)? What kind of an ally is this? I'm very curious to know.....



It's a big story.... Burma is quite a serious military power and very close strategic ally of China.... there is every possibility that it's one hidden nuclear power.... in spite of being so close to China they always helped us in our war against terrorism.... in MNS time surgical strikes on terrorists by India in Burma territory were actually done after taking approval from Burma.... these are all the reasons we can't afford to annoy irritate Burma.... at the same time Bangladesh too is an emerging economy and military power and we feel safer on eastern front because of Bangladesh.... we want peace and friendship with both.... France sold mirages to both India and Pakistan.... again Agosta to Pak and Scorpeans to India (again before anybody jump I'm not saying India is something like France and BD Burma are like India and Pakistan.. it's just example) sometimes we are just choice less in international politics...


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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> It seems they will go for Eurufighter Typhoon or viper block 72 but both are damn costly and BD won't be able to procure in numbers.... after initial tactical gains against Burma such low numbers won't help to gain decisive results in BD favor... Burma will return the favor in stretched war.... not to mention China is sitting next door to take care of supplies and logistics support to Burma.... wars are won by the country who is able to keep up with the losses and stand strong to bleed opponents.... circumstances favor Burma... if BD wants to have an upper hand than they need qty with Russian platforms like MIG 35s and strategic partner like India next to its border who will service those jets, provide weapons from its own MIG 29... overall ease the burden
> 
> Lovely MIG 35 in action
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a big story.... Burma is quite a serious military power and very close strategic ally of China.... there is every possibility that it's one hidden nuclear power.... in spite of being so close to China they always helped us in our war against terrorism.... in MNS time surgical strikes on terrorists by India in Burma territory were actually done after taking approval from Burma.... these are all the reasons we can't afford to annoy irritate Burma.... at the same time Bangladesh too is an emerging economy and military power and we feel safer on eastern front because of Bangladesh.... we want peace and friendship with both.... France sold mirages to both India and Pakistan.... again Agosta to Pak and Scorpeans to India (again before anybody jump I'm not saying India is something like France and BD Burma are like India and Pakistan.. it's just example) sometimes we are just choice less in international politics...



Well thanks for validating my point. We are just neighbors who are trade partners but surely not allies!!

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## UKBengali

Goku said:


> We need to maintain relations with Myanmar. Even Bangladesh is buying weapons from China isnt it?. So there's no such thing as ally or enemy its all transactional.
> If Bangladesh can engage with both China and India , similarly we will engage with both Bangladesh and Myanmar




In this case, Indian posters need to stop calling BD an ally.

Who cares about your torpedos as they are probably low quality like the rest of the weapons India manufactures - or maybe you were doing as a favour by selling your sub-par weapons to Myanmar on purpose.



vishwambhar said:


> It's a big story.... Burma is quite a serious military power and very close strategic ally of China.... there is every possibility that it's one hidden nuclear power.... in spite of being so close to China they always helped us in our war against terrorism.... in MNS time surgical strikes on terrorists by India in Burma territory were actually done after taking approval from Burma.... these are all the reasons we can't afford to annoy irritate Burma.... at the same time Bangladesh too is an emerging economy and military power and we feel safer on eastern front because of Bangladesh.... we want peace and friendship with both.... France sold mirages to both India and Pakistan.... again Agosta to Pak and Scorpeans to India (again before anybody jump I'm not saying India is something like France and BD Burma are like India and Pakistan.. it's just example) sometimes we are just choice less in international politics...




No way that Myanmar has nuclear weapons I can assure you.

Myanmar is no serious military power with 16 JF-17 Block 2 and 30 Mig-29/SU-30SM - this is the only decent bit of the military.
It's army is rag-tag and navy is a joke.

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## Goku

UKBengali said:


> In this case, Indian posters need to stop calling BD an ally.
> 
> Who cares about your torpedos as they are probably low quality like the rest of the weapons India manufactures - or maybe you were doing as a favour by selling your sub-par weapons to Myanmar on purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way that Myanmar has nuclear weapons I can assure you.
> 
> Myanmar is no serious military power with 16 JF-17 Block 2 and 30 Mig-29/SU-30SM - this is the only decent bit of the military.
> It's army is rag-tag and navy is a joke.


Yup its good Bangladesh is looking at rich US and China instead of poor quality Indian weapons. I bet Bangladesh is a manufacturing powerhouse with German standards , Japanese discipline , Chinese speed and American marketing. 
Who said Bangladesh is a permanent ally? Only an ally as long as interests are aligned. And this is a geopolitical reality. Same goes for Myanmar.

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## UKBengali

Goku said:


> Yup its good Bangladesh is looking at rich US and China instead of poor quality Indian weapons. I bet Bangladesh is a manufacturing powerhouse with German standards , Japanese discipline , Chinese speed and American marketing.
> Who said Bangladesh is a permanent ally? Only an ally as long as interests are aligned. And this is a geopolitical reality. Same goes for Myanmar.



I would be far more worried if China sold torpedoes than India.

Chinese quality is better than India for sure.


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## Goku

UKBengali said:


> I would be far more worried if China sold torpedoes than India.
> 
> Chinese quality is better than India for sure.


True we know that.......btw kilo class sub given to Myanmar is of Russian make


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## UKBengali

Goku said:


> True we know that.......btw kilo class sub given to Myanmar is of Russian make




Yeah and not any better than the 2 modernised Mings that BD already has.
BN has ordered 2 AW-159E helicopters that can be sent to hunt it along with the Mings.

No-one in BD cares about the single 1980s Kilo sub to be honest.


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## Michael Corleone

vishwambhar said:


> It seems they will go for Eurufighter Typhoon or viper block 72 but both are damn costly and BD won't be able to procure in numbers.... after initial tactical gains against Burma such low numbers won't help to gain decisive results in BD favor... Burma will return the favor in stretched war.... not to mention China is sitting next door to take care of supplies and logistics support to Burma.... wars are won by the country who is able to keep up with the losses and stand strong to bleed opponents.... circumstances favor Burma... if BD wants to have an upper hand than they need qty with Russian platforms like MIG 35s and strategic partner like India next to its border who will service those jets, provide weapons from its own MIG 29... overall ease the burden
> 
> Lovely MIG 35 in action
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a big story.... Burma is quite a serious military power and very close strategic ally of China.... there is every possibility that it's one hidden nuclear power.... in spite of being so close to China they always helped us in our war against terrorism.... in MNS time surgical strikes on terrorists by India in Burma territory were actually done after taking approval from Burma.... these are all the reasons we can't afford to annoy irritate Burma.... at the same time Bangladesh too is an emerging economy and military power and we feel safer on eastern front because of Bangladesh.... we want peace and friendship with both.... France sold mirages to both India and Pakistan.... again Agosta to Pak and Scorpeans to India (again before anybody jump I'm not saying India is something like France and BD Burma are like India and Pakistan.. it's just example) sometimes we are just choice less in international politics...


Our deterrence capacity is not for Burma. Don’t can’t afford to stretch a war. It’s purely for India wether people like it or not.



Goku said:


> I bet Bangladesh is a manufacturing powerhouse with German standards , Japanese discipline , Chinese speed and American marketing.


We didn’t say that. That’s your mouth


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## vishwambhar

UKBengali said:


> Yeah and not any better than the 2 modernised Mings that BD already has.
> BN has ordered 2 AW-159E helicopters that can be sent to hunt it along with the Mings.
> 
> No-one in BD cares about the single 1980s Kilo sub to be honest.



Do you know how lethal the kilo is? It's so silent that NATO calls it black whole..... there's is a reason that they are highest in submarine fleet in Indian navy...
Even China still operates them.... ask them about this submarine... it's as good or maybe better than Ming.... but once Indian made varunastra is fitted then it will be in totally different league than Ming



UKBengali said:


> In this case, Indian posters need to stop calling BD an ally.
> 
> Who cares about your torpedos as they are probably low quality like the rest of the weapons India manufactures - or maybe you were doing as a favour by selling your sub-par weapons to Myanmar on purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way that Myanmar has nuclear weapons I can assure you.
> 
> Myanmar is no serious military power with 16 JF-17 Block 2 and 30 Mig-29/SU-30SM - this is the only decent bit of the military.
> It's army is rag-tag and navy is a joke.



There were nuclear facility type underground stations detected in Burma it's a fact.... Burma is strategic ally of China... look at this way.... other strategic allies of China such as Pakistan and north Korea are nuclear powers.... China has purposely allowed this nuclear shield at its west east and in south in Burma..... they're a nuclear power but just not disclosing it to avoid sanctions....


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## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> Do you know how lethal the kilo is? It's so silent that NATO calls it black whole..... there's is a reason that they are highest in submarine fleet in Indian navy...
> Even China still operates them.... ask them about this submarine... it's as good or maybe better than Ming.... but once Indian made varunastra is fitted then it will be in totally different league than Ming
> 
> 
> 
> There were nuclear facility type underground stations detected in Burma it's a fact.... Burma is strategic ally of China... look at this way.... other strategic allies of China such as Pakistan and north Korea are nuclear powers.... China has purposely allowed this nuclear shield at its west east and in south in Burma..... they're a nuclear power but just not disclosing it to avoid sanctions....



Uh no.

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## Kutuzov

UKBengali said:


> In this case, Indian posters need to stop calling BD an ally.
> 
> Who cares about your torpedos as they are probably low quality like the rest of the weapons India manufactures - or maybe you were doing as a favour by selling your sub-par weapons to Myanmar on purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way that Myanmar has nuclear weapons I can assure you.
> 
> Myanmar is no serious military power with 16 JF-17 Block 2 and 30 Mig-29/SU-30SM - this is the only decent bit of the military.
> It's army is rag-tag and navy is a joke.



This is your super duper navy.
Buying secondhand frigates and downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.







While you are buying secondhand obsolete frigates from China, Myanmar Navy is buying. . 
- S 100 UAVs (for OTH targeting) from Austria.
- ATR 42 MPAs with full sensor suite from Israel.
- JF 17 with C 802AK maritime strike fighters from China.
- LPD from South Korea.
- Kilo sub from India.
MN is just diversifying their capabilities. Thier focus now is on the force multiplication. Your focus is just on the buying secondhand frigates.
Apart from buying platforms they are also upgrading thier 12000 ton Naval Shipyard into a 40000 shipyard.
Unlike BD they have friends. 
Unlike BD they have vision.
Truth is bitter.

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## Goku

Michael Corleone said:


> Our deterrence capacity is not for Burma. Don’t can’t afford to stretch a war. It’s purely for India wether people like it or not.
> 
> 
> We didn’t say that. That’s your mouth


Fair enough. Your deterrence should be against India. 
And regarding the manufacturing capacity , one of your member trash talks about other countries as if his Bangladesh is some sort of manufacturing powerhouse.......

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## MINN

Kutuzov said:


> This is your super duper navy.
> Buying secondhand frigates and downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.
> 
> View attachment 602036
> 
> 
> While you are buying secondhand obsolete frigates from China, Myanmar Navy is buying. .
> - S 100 UAVs (for OTH targeting) from Austria.
> - ATR 42 MPAs with full sensor suite from Israel.
> - JF 17 with C 802AK maritime strike fighters from China.
> - LPD from South Korea.
> - Kilo sub from India.
> MN is just diversifying their capabilities. Thier focus now is on the force multiplication. Your focus is just on the buying secondhand frigates.
> Apart from buying platforms they are also upgrading thier 12000 ton Naval Shipyard into a 40000 shipyard.
> Unlike BD they have friends.
> Unlike BD they have vision.
> Truth is bitter.
> 
> View attachment 602037
> 
> View attachment 602038
> 
> View attachment 602039
> 
> View attachment 602040


don't forget about the 135m frigate with VLS and the two ASW FACs under constration. Also our su 30s are about to arrive this year
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/01/27/myanmar-to-receive-first-su-30sme-this-year/

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## LKJ86

MINN said:


> don't forget about the 135m frigate with VLS


What VLS is it?


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## ghost250

Kutuzov said:


> This is your super duper navy.
> Buying secondhand frigates and downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.
> 
> View attachment 602036
> 
> 
> While you are buying secondhand obsolete frigates from China, Myanmar Navy is buying. .
> - S 100 UAVs (for OTH targeting) from Austria.
> - ATR 42 MPAs with full sensor suite from Israel.
> - JF 17 with C 802AK maritime strike fighters from China.
> - LPD from South Korea.
> - Kilo sub from India.
> MN is just diversifying their capabilities. Thier focus now is on the force multiplication. Your focus is just on the buying secondhand frigates.
> Apart from buying platforms they are also upgrading thier 12000 ton Naval Shipyard into a 40000 shipyard.
> Unlike BD they have friends.
> Unlike BD they have vision.
> Truth is bitter.
> 
> View attachment 602037
> 
> View attachment 602038
> 
> View attachment 602039
> 
> View attachment 602040


lol..nd this secndhand obsolete frigates gave u nightmares when u tried to sneak our waters..

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/12/a...O7cYieFwgPbMftNrSYYSpqplhJr-frWitO63TO-WLXJDg

"*On MN decks, memories of a humiliating climb-down a decade ago in the face of the Bangladesh Navy still rankle.

Natural gas exploration undertaken by a South Korean drilling platform escorted by MN vessels in disputed waters near the two sides’ maritime border triggered first diplomatic protests and then in November 2008 a concentration of superior Bangladeshi naval firepower, which forced the MN to back down and quit the area...."
*
nd those downgraded cheap corvettes carry more firepower thn ur so called manpad equipped stealth trawlers...i mean seriously..!! what kind of navy equip their stealth boats with manpads!! . moreover,we dont need to dispatch our warships in time of conflicts..our proxies will do the job..

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-07/22/c_138247115.htm

*Insurgents fire rockets at navy boats in Myanmar *

a lpd with no proper escort is just a sitting duck..u have zero significant naval asset in ur arsenal....nd dont want to talk about ur 40 years old kilo..uhhhhuuu,vision nd friends...we r afraid ....


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## vishwambhar

Michael Corleone said:


> Our deterrence capacity is not for Burma. Don’t can’t afford to stretch a war. It’s purely for India wether people like it or not.



No we're strategic allies... we must operate common platforms.... MIG 35s will be a mean punch in BAF...


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## LKJ86

vishwambhar said:


> No we're strategic allies... we must operate common platforms.... MIG 35s will be a mean punch in BAF...


Why not Rafale?

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## ghost250

LKJ86 said:


> What VLS is it?


they dont knw....


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## Avicenna

Kutuzov said:


> This is your super duper navy.
> Buying secondhand frigates and downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.
> 
> View attachment 602036
> 
> 
> While you are buying secondhand obsolete frigates from China, Myanmar Navy is buying. .
> - S 100 UAVs (for OTH targeting) from Austria.
> - ATR 42 MPAs with full sensor suite from Israel.
> - JF 17 with C 802AK maritime strike fighters from China.
> - LPD from South Korea.
> - Kilo sub from India.
> MN is just diversifying their capabilities. Thier focus now is on the force multiplication. Your focus is just on the buying secondhand frigates.
> Apart from buying platforms they are also upgrading thier 12000 ton Naval Shipyard into a 40000 shipyard.
> Unlike BD they have friends.
> Unlike BD they have vision.
> Truth is bitter.
> 
> View attachment 602037
> 
> View attachment 602038
> 
> View attachment 602039
> 
> View attachment 602040



LOL.

Good luck with your pariah state goals.

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## vishwambhar

LKJ86 said:


> Why not Rafale?



Yes Rafales would also do... I had said in previous post that either MIG 35 or Rafale... But strategic allies should operate common platforms to ease logistics and making platforms available to each other in case of attrition in war.... I am promoting MIG 35 because they can be bought in numbers.... For 16 typhoons they can buy 32 MIG 35... They need numbers to deal with Burma who is now equipped with deadly flankers....


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## Goku

vishwambhar said:


> No we're strategic allies... we must operate common platforms.... MIG 35s will be a mean punch in BAF...


No we are not strategic allies , transactional yes

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## LKJ86

vishwambhar said:


> But strategic allies should operate common platforms to ease logistics and making platforms available to each other in case of attrition in war....


In a war against Myanmar? Pakistan? China?


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## vishwambhar

LKJ86 said:


> In a war against Myanmar? Pakistan? China?



Only county BD will ever go to war is Myanmar... India is there strategic ally and all weather brother... China is their friend. Pakistan they don't have any dispute between them and geographically war between them is not possible...


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## LKJ86

vishwambhar said:


> Only county BD will ever go to war is Myanmar... India is there strategic ally and all weather brother... China is their friend. Pakistan they don't have any dispute between them and geographically war between them is not possible...


So, what is the India-Bangladesh common threat? Myanmar?


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## BanglarBagh

LKJ86 said:


> So, what is the India-Bangladesh common threat? Myanmar?



It's his wishful thinking that BD and India are strategic allies! When truth of the matter is India-Myanmar both are a threat to BD...

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## ghost250

vishwambhar said:


> Yes Rafales would also do... I had said in previous post that either MIG 35 or Rafale... But strategic allies should operate common platforms to ease logistics and making platforms available to each other in case of attrition in war.... I am promoting MIG 35 because they can be bought in numbers.... For 16 typhoons they can buy 32 MIG 35... They need numbers to deal with Burma who is now equipped with deadly flankers....


with only six units..let them have those frst..nd 16 units of typhoons r more thn enuf to counter burmese airforce....


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## vishwambhar

LKJ86 said:


> So, what is the India-Bangladesh common threat? Myanmar?



Burma is not our enemy rather friend... But same time we want strong and progressive BD too.... It's a part of our LOOK EAST policy... And we are actually trying to ease out the tensions between BD and Burma....



ghost250 said:


> with only six units..let them have those frst..nd 16 units of typhoons r more thn enuf to counter burmese airforce....



16 units more than enough for Burmese Air Force? They will have 30 Sukhoi 30 SM, more Fulcrums than you, more F7s than you. Only 16 typhoons can't do anything especially when BD doesn't have AWACS system.... Imagine if only 3-4 costly Typhoons get shot down or destroyed on ground..... It will be a loss for BAF.... BD will be forced to use them only for air defence while Myanmar will be offensive with complete air superiority....


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## TopCat

vishwambhar said:


> 16 units more than enough for Burmese Air Force? *They will have 30 Sukhoi 30 SM*, more Fulcrums than you, more F7s than you. Only 16 typhoons can't do anything especially when BD doesn't have AWACS system.... Imagine if only 3-4 costly Typhoons get shot down or destroyed on ground..... It will be a loss for BAF.... BD will be forced to use them only for air defence while Myanmar will be offensive with complete air superiority....


I thought they bought 6 sukui.
Besides they rushed to these acquisition fearing BD will buy them. But instead BD bought nothing. They lost it right there.

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## ghost250

vishwambhar said:


> Burma is not our enemy rather friend... But same time we want strong and progressive BD too.... It's a part of our LOOK EAST policy... And we are actually trying to ease out the tensions between BD and Burma....
> 
> 
> 
> 16 units more than enough for Burmese Air Force? They will have 30 Sukhoi 30 SM, more Fulcrums than you, more F7s than you. Only 16 typhoons can't do anything especially when BD doesn't have AWACS system.... Imagine if only 3-4 costly Typhoons get shot down or destroyed on ground..... It will be a loss for BAF.... BD will be forced to use them only for air defence while Myanmar will be offensive with complete air superiority....


for now they have only 6 units..none of those r delivered yet...

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## TopCat

LKJ86 said:


> So, what is the India-Bangladesh common threat? Myanmar?


BD soldiers are deployed all over the world...


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## vishwambhar

TopCat said:


> I thought they bought 6 sukui.
> Besides they rushed to these acquisition fearing BD will buy them. But instead BD bought nothing. They lost it right there.



6 is initial order... They have plans to take the numbers to 30.... I had read this on Indian defence forum

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## TopCat

vishwambhar said:


> 6 is initial order... They have plans to take the numbers to 30.... I had read this on Indian defence forum


Yes .. they have plans to bankruptcy and doomsday since beginning...

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## UKBengali

Kutuzov said:


> This is your super duper navy.
> Buying secondhand frigates and downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.
> 
> View attachment 602036
> 
> 
> While you are buying secondhand obsolete frigates from China, Myanmar Navy is buying. .
> - S 100 UAVs (for OTH targeting) from Austria.
> - ATR 42 MPAs with full sensor suite from Israel.
> - JF 17 with C 802AK maritime strike fighters from China.
> - LPD from South Korea.
> - Kilo sub from India.
> MN is just diversifying their capabilities. Thier focus now is on the force multiplication. Your focus is just on the buying secondhand frigates.
> Apart from buying platforms they are also upgrading thier 12000 ton Naval Shipyard into a 40000 shipyard.
> Unlike BD they have friends.
> Unlike BD they have vision.
> Truth is bitter.
> 
> View attachment 602037
> 
> View attachment 602038
> 
> View attachment 602039
> 
> View attachment 602040



You heard that Boeing confirmed that BD selected 8 AH-64Es for it’s attack helicopter requirements?
BAF will almost now certainly buy either 16 F-16 Block 50/52 or 16 Superhornets for it’s fighter requirements. Either of these planes will hunt your Mig-29s/JF-17s and SU-30SM for target practice. US technology is superior to Russian/Chinese tech.

BN’s second hand frigates are better than anything in your Navy and the 4 new corvettes from China are not downgraded but lack sonar. BD is building it’s own warships with sonar equipment installed and they are more dedicated to anti-air and anti-ship roles.


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## Kutuzov

UKBengali said:


> You heard that Boeing confirmed that BD selected 8 AH-64Es for it’s attack helicopter requirements?
> BAF will almost now certainly buy either 16 F-16 Block 50/52 or 16 Superhornets for it’s fighter requirements. Either of these planes will hunt your Mig-29s/JF-17s and SU-30SM for target practice. US technology is superior to Russian/Chinese tech.
> 
> BN’s second hand frigates are better than anything in your Navy and the 4 new corvettes from China are not downgraded but lack sonar. BD is building it’s own warships with sonar equipment installed and they are more dedicated to anti-air and anti-ship roles.



You are wrong. Boeing didn’t confirm it. They just said if BD wanna buy they will consider to sell. Neither BD nor Boeing made any decision yet. That’s all.

Pls stop talking about uncertain future dream of buying this and that. 

US technology is better but the only problem you have is that you don’t have any US fighters. All you have is unupgradable older model MiG 29 A/B and UB from Russia and junk F 7 third gen fighters from China.

Out of 8 MiG 29s, only SIX have radars and TWO are MiG 29 UB with no radar. 

Another problem is that you have no decent overhaul facility for MiG 29 and you have to send them to Belarus.

Regarding the F 16s, it is just one of the bucket lists of some of the PDF BD members. 

Forget about US and West fighters. Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters.

Buying Russian trainers for West fighters didn’t make any sense.

BN secondhand frigates are better. I don’t wanna elaborate on that so long as you are happy with you frigates it is ok.

But you must remember that none of your frigates has proper CIWS. Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard.

Your downgraded C 13B also lack anti air capabilities. Their FL 3000 are just for self-defense. Anti-air and self-defense are different things.

Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile. IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems.

Modernizing an armed forces needs VISION. not WORDS.

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## vishwambhar

Kutuzov said:


> You are wrong. Boeing didn’t confirm it. They just said if BD wanna buy they will consider to sell. Neither BD nor Boeing made any decision yet. That’s all.
> 
> Pls stop talking about uncertain future dream of buying this and that.
> 
> US technology is better but the only problem you have is that you don’t have any US fighters. All you have is unupgradable older model MiG 29 A/B and UB from Russia and junk F 7 third gen fighters from China.
> 
> Out of 8 MiG 29s, only SIX have radars and TWO are MiG 29 UB with no radar.
> 
> Another problem is that you have no decent overhaul facility for MiG 29 and you have to send them to Belarus.
> 
> Regarding the F 16s, it is just one of the bucket lists of some of the PDF BD members.
> 
> Forget about US and West fighters. Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters.
> 
> Buying Russian trainers for West fighters didn’t make any sense.
> 
> BN secondhand frigates are better. I don’t wanna elaborate on that so long as you are happy with you frigates it is ok.
> 
> But you must remember that none of your frigates has proper CIWS. Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard.
> 
> Your downgraded C 13B also lack anti air capabilities. Their FL 3000 are just for self-defense. Anti-air and self-defense are different things.
> 
> Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile. IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems.
> 
> Modernizing an armed forces needs VISION. not WORDS.



BD brothers don't understand that it's not in their interest to make enemies with India and Myanmar.... They should be happy that India has selected BD as her strategic ally.... But instead they are calling India their enemy... Why? Do they have a death wish??? Buying some costly fancy western fighters won't help against India.... Only moving Arihant armed with K series submarine launched ballistic missiles close to their coasts will bring them to negotiation table with India.... And they are here dreaming to take on India and Burma....

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## ghost250

Kutuzov said:


> You are wrong. Boeing didn’t confirm it. They just said if BD wanna buy they will consider to sell. Neither BD nor Boeing made any decision yet. That’s all.
> 
> Pls stop talking about uncertain future dream of buying this and that.
> 
> US technology is better but the only problem you have is that you don’t have any US fighters. All you have is unupgradable older model MiG 29 A/B and UB from Russia and junk F 7 third gen fighters from China.
> 
> Out of 8 MiG 29s, only SIX have radars and TWO are MiG 29 UB with no radar.
> 
> Another problem is that you have no decent overhaul facility for MiG 29 and you have to send them to Belarus.
> 
> Regarding the F 16s, it is just one of the bucket lists of some of the PDF BD members.
> 
> Forget about US and West fighters. Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters.
> 
> Buying Russian trainers for West fighters didn’t make any sense.
> 
> BN secondhand frigates are better. I don’t wanna elaborate on that so long as you are happy with you frigates it is ok.
> 
> But you must remember that none of your frigates has proper CIWS. Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard.
> 
> Your downgraded C 13B also lack anti air capabilities. Their FL 3000 are just for self-defense. Anti-air and self-defense are different things.
> 
> *Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile.* IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems.
> 
> Modernizing an armed forces needs VISION. not WORDS.



BN uses TDL,so they can utilise the full range of their missiles...nd yeah yeah,fm90s r obsolete,FL-3000s r obsolete,only ur manpads r super duper advanced...

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> BD brothers don't understand that it's not in their interest to make enemies with India and Myanmar.... They should be happy that India has selected BD as her strategic ally.... But instead they are calling India their enemy... Why? Do they have a death wish??? Buying some costly fancy western fighters won't help against India.... Only moving Arihant armed with K series submarine launched ballistic missiles close to their coasts will bring them to negotiation table with India.... And they are here dreaming to take on India and Burma....



Are you sure we are the ones making enemies? Our foreign policy is 'Friendship to all and malice to none'! And this policy is the mistake IMO. Because of this India thinks we are it's slave state and MM thinks we are a pushover! So, essentially India and MM are making enemies out of BD not the other way around. Is it BD that pushed more than a million of it's citizens into another country's territory, no it's MM. And now both of you are holding hands to screw us over.
You said it's not in our interest to make enemies with India and MM, well you are right about the India part but MM doesn't even count! Also it's not in the best interest of India to make enemies with BD but you are constantly doing so. If we are threatened we will retaliate with everything we've got no matter the cost. You may call it a death wish but it's our survival instinct!

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## Michael Corleone

Kutuzov said:


> This is your super duper navy.
> Buying secondhand frigates and downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.
> 
> View attachment 602036
> 
> 
> While you are buying secondhand obsolete frigates from China, Myanmar Navy is buying. .
> - S 100 UAVs (for OTH targeting) from Austria.
> - ATR 42 MPAs with full sensor suite from Israel.
> - JF 17 with C 802AK maritime strike fighters from China.
> - LPD from South Korea.
> - Kilo sub from India.
> MN is just diversifying their capabilities. Thier focus now is on the force multiplication. Your focus is just on the buying secondhand frigates.
> Apart from buying platforms they are also upgrading thier 12000 ton Naval Shipyard into a 40000 shipyard.
> Unlike BD they have friends.
> Unlike BD they have vision.
> Truth is bitter.
> 
> View attachment 602037
> 
> View attachment 602038
> 
> View attachment 602039
> 
> View attachment 602040


Someone show him their rusted sub before handover



vishwambhar said:


> No we're strategic allies... we must operate common platforms.... MIG 35s will be a mean punch in BAF...


Sure whatever you like to believe. I don’t see why your govt got butthurt because we got some vintage subs, same when we got mig 29s

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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> Are you sure we are the ones making enemies? Our foreign policy is 'Friendship to all and malice to none'! And this policy is the mistake IMO. Because of this India thinks we are it's slave state and MM thinks we are a pushover! So, essentially India and MM are making enemies out of BD not the other way around. Is it BD that pushed more than a million of it's citizens into another country's territory, no it's MM. And now both of you are holding hands to screw us over.
> You said it's not in our interest to make enemies with India and MM, well you are right about the India part but MM doesn't even count! Also it's not in the best interest of India to make enemies with BD but you are constantly doing so. If we are threatened we will retaliate with everything we've got no matter the cost. You may call it a death wish but it's our survival instinct!



We three are neighbours and we must have peace... No matter what.... If we fight each other then only outsiders will be winners and we will be loosers...

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## Michael Corleone

Goku said:


> Fair enough. Your deterrence should be against India.
> And regarding the manufacturing capacity , one of your member trash talks about other countries as if his Bangladesh is some sort of manufacturing powerhouse.......


Well whatever Bangladesh manufactures, be it clothes, ships, medicines or otherwise is much better in quality than Indian made stuff, there’s literally no competition and it’s not what we say, it’s what the international market shows

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## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> We three are neighbours and we must have peace... No matter what.... If we fight each other then only outsiders will be winners and we will be loosers...



Let there be peace.

But your government is not all that friendly despite sweet words.

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## vishwambhar

Michael Corleone said:


> Someone show him their rusted sub before handover
> 
> 
> Sure whatever you like to believe. I don’t see why your govt got butthurt because we got some vintage subs, same when we got mig 29s



Michael... Firstly you have zero knowledge about naval platforms in comparison to Burmese navy.... Burma a serious military power and possibly a hidden nuclear power do you really believe them to be that dumb to purchase rusted submarine???? Burma saw value addition in the submarine and its procured by them... But why should we argue when we three are neighbours and natural brothers....

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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> I thought they bought 6 sukui.
> Besides they rushed to these acquisition *fearing BD will buy them*. But instead BD bought nothing. They lost it right there.



that is non-sense. we have own modernization plan. and we just go through with it. nothing related to BD. what if bd buy them first ? BD will be first user of Su-30 in the region.?

and 6 is initial order. we will order soon another 12 to fulfill a squadron.

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## Michael Corleone

vishwambhar said:


> Michael... Firstly you have zero knowledge about naval platforms in comparison to Burmese navy.... Burma a serious military power and possibly a hidden nuclear power do you really believe them to be that dumb to purchase rusted submarine???? Burma saw value addition in the submarine and its procured by them... But why should we argue when we three are neighbours and natural brothers....


i may have zero knowledge on military platforms and you have shown yours by classing them as possible nuclear power

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> i may have zero knowledge on military platforms and you have shown yours by classing them as possible nuclear power



LOL.

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## MINN

LKJ86 said:


> What VLS is it?


It's not official but from what I heard it's Russian in origin.



ghost250 said:


> for now they have only 6 units..none of those r delivered yet...


https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/01/27/myanmar-to-receive-first-su-30sme-this-year/

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## UKBengali

Kutuzov said:


> You are wrong. Boeing didn’t confirm it. They just said if BD wanna buy they will consider to sell. Neither BD nor Boeing made any decision yet. That’s all.
> 
> Pls stop talking about uncertain future dream of buying this and that.
> 
> US technology is better but the only problem you have is that you don’t have any US fighters. All you have is unupgradable older model MiG 29 A/B and UB from Russia and junk F 7 third gen fighters from China.
> 
> Out of 8 MiG 29s, only SIX have radars and TWO are MiG 29 UB with no radar.
> 
> Another problem is that you have no decent overhaul facility for MiG 29 and you have to send them to Belarus.
> 
> Regarding the F 16s, it is just one of the bucket lists of some of the PDF BD members.
> 
> Forget about US and West fighters. Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters.
> 
> Buying Russian trainers for West fighters didn’t make any sense.
> 
> BN secondhand frigates are better. I don’t wanna elaborate on that so long as you are happy with you frigates it is ok.
> 
> But you must remember that none of your frigates has proper CIWS. Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard.
> 
> Your downgraded C 13B also lack anti air capabilities. Their FL 3000 are just for self-defense. Anti-air and self-defense are different things.
> 
> Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile. IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems.
> 
> Modernizing an armed forces needs VISION. not WORDS.





So many inaccuracies in this post:

1. "_You are wrong. Boeing didn’t confirm it. They just said if BD wanna buy they will consider to sell. Neither BD nor Boeing made any decision yet. That’s all_."

"https://www.janes.com/article/93839...-for-bangladesh-attack-helicopter-requirement"

"_Boeing has confirmed that its AH-64E Apache attack helicopter has been down-selected for a potential programme in Bangladesh."
""[In Bangladesh] we have been down-selected not just based on capability, but we went head-to-head with some of our competitors and we were down-selected based on price_."

Yep BD has chosen the AH-64E over other contenders.


Just like the Apache it is now nearly 100% certain the F-16 Block 50/52 or Superhornet is coming. Either of these two planes and their AMRAAM missiles will kill your air-force like how Pakistani F-16s hunted the Indian airforce in 2019.

USA will like nothing better than for BAF to have a field day hunting MAF and they will provide the hardware for us to do this.


2. "_Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters_."


It may have been true that BAF was looking to buy Russian fighters when the YAK-130s were purchased but the Rohingya crisis of 2017 when Russia backed Myanmar has changed the calculus completely.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak_130/

"_The Yak-130 has a maximum g-loading of +8g to -3g and is capable of executing the flight manoeuvres specific to current operational and developmental combat aircraft, including Su-30, MiG-29, Mirage, F-15, F-16, Eurofighter, F-22 and F-35_."

Really makes little difference if you want to train to go onto Russian or Western fighters afterwards:

2. "_Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard._"

Nope as the two Type-053H3 already in BD have the FM-90N SAM system which is modern and the upcoming two will also have this SAM as well.

3. "_Your downgraded C 13B also lack anti air capabilities_"

Again it is not downgraded but just has the sonar taken out. BD is building the Durjoy class with anti-sub capabilities to cover this capability.
Yes none of the BD corvettes and frigates provide area defence but they are better than your modified manpads you have on your frigates

4. "_Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile. IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems_"

BD has ordered 2 AW-139E helicopters with the Seaspray 7000E AESA radar and that should provide target detection from more than 100km away.

Now please stop writing embarrassing posts such as the one I have just quoted.

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## leonblack08

UKBengali said:


> So many inaccuracies in this post:
> 
> 1. "_You are wrong. Boeing didn’t confirm it. They just said if BD wanna buy they will consider to sell. Neither BD nor Boeing made any decision yet. That’s all_."
> 
> "https://www.janes.com/article/93839...-for-bangladesh-attack-helicopter-requirement"
> 
> "_Boeing has confirmed that its AH-64E Apache attack helicopter has been down-selected for a potential programme in Bangladesh."
> ""[In Bangladesh] we have been down-selected not just based on capability, but we went head-to-head with some of our competitors and we were down-selected based on price_."
> 
> Yep BD has chosen the AH-64E over other contenders.
> 
> 
> Just like the Apache it is now nearly 100% certain the F-16 Block 50/52 or Superhornet is coming. Either of these two planes and their AMRAAM missiles will kill your air-force like how Pakistani F-16s hunted the Indian airforce in 2019.
> 
> USA will like nothing better than for BAF to have a field day hunting MAF and they will provide the hardware for us to do this.
> 
> 
> 2. "_Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters_."
> 
> 
> It may have been true that BAF was looking to buy Russian fighters when the YAK-130s were purchased but the Rohingya crisis of 2017 when Russia backed Myanmar has changed the calculus completely.
> 
> https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak_130/
> 
> "_The Yak-130 has a maximum g-loading of +8g to -3g and is capable of executing the flight manoeuvres specific to current operational and developmental combat aircraft, including Su-30, MiG-29, Mirage, F-15, F-16, Eurofighter, F-22 and F-35_."
> 
> Really makes little difference if you want to train to go onto Russian or Western fighters afterwards:
> 
> 2. "_Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard._"
> 
> Nope as the two Type-053H3 already in BD have the FM-90N SAM system which is modern and the upcoming two will also have this SAM as well.
> 
> 3. "_Your downgraded C 13B also lack anti air capabilities_"
> 
> Again it is not downgraded but just has the sonar taken out. BD is building the Durjoy class with anti-sub capabilities to cover this capability.
> Yes none of the BD corvettes and frigates provide area defence but they are better than your modified manpads you have on your frigates
> 
> 4. "_Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile. IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems_"
> 
> BD has ordered 2 AW-139E helicopters with the Seaspray 7000E AESA radar and that should provide target detection from more than 100km away.
> 
> Now please stop writing embarrassing posts such as the one I have just quoted.



Thanks for taking the time to respond to him. 

With regards to Yak 130, in addition to the point you mentioned, it was jointly developed by Yakolev (Russian) and Aermacchi (Italian). So it already had Western DNA in it since inception. It's successor M346 is used by Israel. Guess what fighters they fly?

It is one of the best in business that will train our pilots regardless of what platform we choose. So much for not having a plan!

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## vishwambhar

UKBengali said:


> Just like the Apache it is now nearly 100% certain the F-16 Block 50/52 or Superhornet is coming. Either of these two planes and their AMRAAM missiles will kill your air-force like how Pakistani F-16s hunted the Indian airforce in 2019.



Kid.... Paf only shot down one older mig 21 that also sneaked dangerously close to viper.... Vipers only had range advantage with their AMARAAM.... It's no where called HUNTING..... Only thing they did was knocking the door and running away staying in their own air space.... IAF has now sorted out the missile range issue with newer R series and plans for homemade Astra.... If their vipers were that capable to hunt fulcrums, flankers, m2k as a target practice (as per your own previous statement on this thread) then they would have liberated kashmir after what happened on 5th August 2019.... That no value addition small air skirmish victory could not deter India to annex kashmir.... And their Prime minister in response said we don't have capacity to attack India and take kashmir.... 16 vipers are not going to help you against Burma and India.... Period ....

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> Kid.... Paf only shot down one older mig 21 that also sneaked dangerously close to viper.... Vipers only had range advantage with their AMARAAM.... It's no where called HUNTING..... Only thing they did was knocking the door and running away staying in their own air space.... IAF has now sorted out the missile range issue with newer R series and plans for homemade Astra.... If their vipers were that capable to hunt fulcrums, flankers, m2k as a target practice (as per your own previous statement on this thread) then they would have liberated kashmir after what happened on 5th August 2019.... That no value addition small air skirmish victory could not deter India to annex kashmir.... And their Prime minister in response said we don't have capacity to attack India and take kashmir.... 16 vipers are not going to help you against Burma and India.... Period ....



F-16s are that capable even if you try to deny it. The only reason PAF didn't go into Indian airspace is because the agreement with US forbids them to use the F-16 offensively against India. So, PAF can only use them to defend remaining in their airspace.
And the Kashmir land is divided. India is also not capable of taking the part held by Pakistan and vice verse. The capability of a single MRCA doesn't decide the fate of a disputed area like Kashmir, so don't bring that useless analogy in the comparison of fighters!


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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> F-16s are that capable even if you try to deny it. The only reason PAF didn't go into Indian airspace is because the agreement with US forbids them to use the F-16 offensively against India. So, PAF can only use them to defend remaining in their airspace.
> And the Kashmir land is divided. India is also not capable of taking the part held by Pakistan and vice verse. The capability of a single MRCA doesn't decide the fate of a disputed area like Kashmir, so don't bring that useless analogy in the comparison of fighters!



If it was really that capable trust me by now India would have purchased 100 F21 which is offered to us... after all we need that much capable system to face two nuclear enemies right??....and don't give the crap they're forbidden by USA to use against India....they used amaraam that stays a lot.... lol who want's that azad Kashmir with more population to be our responsibility... we have taken what we wanted including the rivers that starts from our kashmir.....yeah vipers that capable only on pdf....

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> If it was really that capable trust me by now India would have purchased 100 F21 which is offered to us... after all we need that much capable system to face two nuclear enemies right??....and don't give the crap they're forbidden by USA to use against India....they used amaraam that stays a lot.... lol who want's that azad Kashmir with more population to be our responsibility... we have taken what we wanted including the rivers that starts from our kashmir.....yeah vipers that capable only on pdf....



If F-16 is not capable like you claim then why do you think approximately 30 Air Forces around the world uses them?!! They could just go for superior Russian birds like IAF! What a load of bullcrap you spew. No wonder only delusional burmese pdf members keep liking your posts!!!


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## Aung Zaya

UKBengali said:


> BD has ordered 2 AW-139E helicopters with the Seaspray 7000E AESA radar and that should provide target detection from more than 100km away.



AW-139 is medium SAR and Utility Helicopter and it can not perform any target detection. 



UKBengali said:


> Just like the Apache it *is now nearly 100% certain the F-16 Block 50/52 or Superhornet is coming.* Either of these two planes and their AMRAAM missiles will kill your air-force like how Pakistani F-16s hunted the Indian airforce in 2019.



why not choose F-22 and F-35 ? i thought u guys just said like " we're getting Su-30 and it's 100% sure. we will destroy ur AF " since many years ago , even before we order Su-30. Now, we are about to receive / already received first batch of Su-30 delivery.  



UKBengali said:


> "_The Yak-130 has a maximum g-loading of +8g to -3g and is capable of executing the flight manoeuvres specific to current operational and developmental combat aircraft, including Su-30, MiG-29, Mirage, F-15, F-16, Eurofighter, F-22 and F-35_."
> 
> Really makes little difference if you want to train to go onto Russian or Western fighters afterwards:



in fact, technically yes. but in reality, many difficulties will be faced. even its cousin, M346 have been modified intensively to serve as trainer for western fighters.

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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> If F-16 is not capable like you claim then why do you think approximately 30 Air Forces around the world uses them?!! They could just go for superior Russian birds like IAF! What a load of bullcrap you spew. No wonder only delusional burmese pdf members keep liking your posts!!!



NATO countries operate them.... Other non NATO countries who operate them due to it being a single engined, maintainance friendly bird.... Apart from this many other nations who operate them have got them under some aid package..... Then there are many other countries who have been forced this fighter by uncle Sam down to their throat.... Look at Egypt as an example.... 200 plus vipers with no BVR and unable to take on Israel.... I'm not calling F16 a bad fighter.... It's a great deadly fighter.... But 30 states you are talking about its not like they have taken this jet something because it has allien technology.... There are many factors behind....



Aung Zaya said:


> AW-139 is medium SAR and Utility Helicopter and it can not perform any target detection.
> 
> 
> 
> why not choose F-22 and F-35 ? i thought u guys just said like " we're getting Su-30 and it's 100% sure. we will destroy ur AF " since many years ago , even before we order Su-30. Now, we are about to receive / already received first batch of Su-30 delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> in fact, technically yes. but in reality, many difficulties will be faced. even its cousin, M346 have been modified intensively to serve as trainer for western fighters.



My friend.... No need to worry even if they get Super hornets..... Super hornets are deadly off course but you are also getting a deadly flanker.... There is a reason India has inducted 250+ after initial order for 140.... And still asking for more 12 used Russian flankers even after 27th Feb..... Your flanker will be deadly even against Rafale in WVR.... In BVR Rafale might be dangerous only because of longer range Meteor and nothing else.... Russians will surely come up with better BVR missile than meteor in future.... So no need to worry.... One small air skirmish which was not even a full blown air battle cannot be used as a yard stick to rate any air craft.... Only fanboys do that....

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## Avicenna

Lotta pollution in the thread in the last few pages.

Credibility was lost at declaring Burma a nuclear state.

LOL!

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## vishwambhar

Avicenna said:


> Lotta pollution in the thread in the last few pages.
> 
> Credibility was lost at declaring Burma a nuclear state.
> 
> LOL!



You don't even know what Burma is capable of..... Apart from Burma many countries have hidden nuclear capacity.... They just prefer to keep mouth shut about it...

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## Che palle

vishwambhar said:


> You don't even know what Burma is capable of..... Apart from Burma many countries have hidden nuclear capacity.... They just prefer to keep mouth shut about it...


I'm wondering what you're doing poking your nose where it don't belong? It's pretty funny though, considering how they view brown-skinned f**kers like yourself


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## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> You don't even know what Burma is capable of..... Apart from Burma many countries have hidden nuclear capacity.... They just prefer to keep mouth shut about it...



LOL.

Please expand your thoughts on this.

Explain to me how Burma has nuclear weapons.

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## vishwambhar

Che palle said:


> I'm wondering what you're doing poking your nose where it don't belong? It's pretty funny though, considering how they view brown-skinned f**kers like yourself



Please use decent language or else I will report you... Since when did BD ppl became white skinned??? Anyways it belongs to me as BD and India are strategic allies....


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## Che palle

Avicenna said:


> Explain to me how Burma has nuclear weapons.

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## Destranator

vishwambhar said:


> You don't even know what Burma is capable of..... Apart from Burma many countries have hidden nuclear capacity.... They just prefer to keep mouth shut about it...


Yes Sir Ji. We know nothing Ji. We also do not know that they already operate Jin-class submarines and have recently opened Disneyland in Yangoon; They just choose not to talk about it.
In the meanwhile we have no plans to induct MRSAMs, AESA radars, GMLRS, etc..


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## Che palle

vishwambhar said:


> Please use decent language or else I will report you... Since when did BD ppl became white skinned??? Anyways it belongs to me as BD and India are strategic allies....


Where in that quote did I say we're 'white-skinned'? (LMAO) I was talking about you, you nut.

Please don't consider PDF to be a reflection of real life views. I think you'd be pretty surprised to find out how they really see you, LOL


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## vishwambhar

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> Please expand your thoughts on this.
> 
> Explain to me how Burma has nuclear weapons.



In 2006 only USA had observed underground nuclear facilities in Burma.... Why it was underground facility? To cook hiisa??? After that it requires no geneious to sum it up.... Burma a South Eastern strategic ally of China just like Pakistan and North Korea.... And then making nukes is quite easy.... Difficult part is only to get raw or say fissile materials and centrifuges.... From China Burma certainly has this luxury.... Unfortunately BD doesn't.....


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## Che palle

Al-Ansar said:


> Yes Sir Ji. We know nothing Ji. We also do not know that they already operate Jin-class submarines and have recently opened Disneyland in Yangoon; They just choose not to talk about it.
> In the meanwhile we have no plans to induct MRSAMs, AESA radars, GMRLS, etc..


Why are you arguing with him? It's a waste of time. Just leave it be.

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## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> In 2006 only USA had observed underground nuclear facilities in Burma.... Why it was underground facility? To cook hiisa??? After that it requires no geneious to sum it up.... Burma a South Eastern strategic ally of China just like Pakistan and North Korea.... And then making nukes is quite easy.... Difficult part is only to get raw or say fissile materials and centrifuges.... From China Burma certainly has this luxury.... Unfortunately BD doesn't.....



LOL.

Keep going.

I'm enjoying your story.

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## vishwambhar

Che palle said:


> Where in that quote did I say we're 'white-skinned'? (LMAO) I was talking about you, you nut.
> 
> Please don't consider PDF to be a reflection of real life views. I think you'd be pretty surprised to find out how they really see you, LOL



You said how they view at brown skinned like you... So it was my response.... Anyway if you have anything to contribute then talk or else stay away...



Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> Keep going.
> 
> I'm enjoying your story.



Lol you keep underestimating Burma and India....


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## Arthur

@waz @Dubious brothers, looks like lotta filth & crap from indians here. Can you clear the thread so sanity can restored here, please?

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> @waz @Dubious brothers, looks like lotta filth & crap from indians here. Can you clear the thread so sanity can restored here, please?



In all honesty, I am enjoying his posts.

More for comedy than informational purposes.

Also, please I really wanna hear all about the Burmese nuclear program.

Also, I think @Dubious is a sister, no?

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## Che palle

vishwambhar said:


> You said how they view at brown skinned like you... So it was my response.... Anyway if you have anything to contribute then talk or else stay away...


Why don't you focus on your own damn airforce? This ain't nothing which concerns ya

I'm pretty neutral towards your country but if you keep on pissing like this I'm gon' have to change my mind

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> In all honesty, I am enjoying his posts.
> 
> More for comedy than informational purposes.
> 
> Also, please I really wanna hear all about the Burmese nuclear program.
> 
> Also, I think @Dubious is a sister, no?


Well you have me there. But in my defence I always considered the Internet is a gender neutral zone. Anyone, who takes up a anonymous name is thus neutral in gender.

So being a 'sister' makes little difference here for me. lol.

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## BanglarBagh

Avicenna said:


> In all honesty, I am enjoying his posts.
> 
> More for comedy than informational purposes.
> 
> Also, please I really wanna hear all about the Burmese nuclear program.
> 
> Also, I think @Dubious is a sister, no?



I would like to advise you to tone down your curiosity about the burmese nuclear program. If this continues he might claim burma already developed ICBMs capable of hitting anyone!!!

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## Bilal9

Che palle said:


> Why are you arguing with him? It's a waste of time. Just leave it be.



All kinds of third-rate uneducated Sanghis come here to 'express opinions' on their supposed military might with broken English, talkin' about Shiva-Linga class ships made with cheap pot metal - when their aukat is Rupees 2 tea sipped out of cheap clay cups. Yeh hai tera 'supa-pawa' toilet-less Endeya...someone should tell these Sanghis to fix their effed up andhey galli neighborhoods and toilets first...this sort of Sanghi humki-dhamki is old news to us Bangladeshis.

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## vishwambhar

Al-Ansar said:


> Yes Sir Ji. We know nothing Ji. We also do not know that they already operate Jin-class submarines and have recently opened Disneyland in Yangoon; They just choose not to talk about it.
> In the meanwhile we have no plans to induct MRSAMs, AESA radars, GMLRS, etc..



No need to troll I'm just telling you the reality... This Sir ji ji ji type comment will only get you some cheap likes from fellow minds... Not going to change a reality....


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## Bilal9

Arthur said:


> Well you have me there. But in my defence I always considered the Internet is a gender neutral zone. Anyone, who takes up a anonymous name is thus neutral in gender.
> 
> So being a 'sister' makes little difference here for me. lol.



Au contraire - mon frère...

It means you treat that person with respect deserving of said fairer gender.

That is what makes a person like you or me gentlemen.

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## vishwambhar

Bilal9 said:


> All kinds of third-rate uneducated Sanghis come here to 'express opinions' on their supposed military might with broken English, talkin' about Shiva-Linga class ships made with cheap pot metal - when their aukat is Rupees 2 tea sipped out of cheap clay cups. Yeh hai tera 'supa-pawa' toilet-less Endeya...someone should tell these Sanghis to fix their effed up andhey galli neighborhoods and toilets first...this sort of Sanghi humki-dhamki is old news to us Bangladeshis.



Lol I didn't know BD has become that rich that it's poor ppl are having morning coffee in Barista.....

It's not Shiva linga, it's shivalik class warship (you know this very well just trying to earn some cheap claps) who will own any of your floating junk which you call a navy hands down..... In fact if I am an IN commander I would charge penalty on BN for forcing me to waste my costly brahmos, excoset and harpoons for clearing out that junk....


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## Che palle

Bilal9 said:


> All kinds of third-rate uneducated Sanghis come here to 'express opinions' on their supposed military might with broken English, talkin' about Shiva-Linga class ships made with cheap pot metal - when their aukat is Rupees 2 tea sipped out of cheap clay cups. Yeh hai tera 'supa-pawa' toilet-less Endeya...someone should tell these Sanghis to fix their effed up andhey galli neighborhoods and toilets first...this sort of Sanghi humki-dhamki is old news to us Bangladeshis.


I don't hate them tbh, met lots of friendly guys and gals, but goooosh these pdf indians are a different breed (fighting on bd airforce thread of all, lol )

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## Bilal9

Che palle said:


> I don't hate them tbh, met lots of friendly guys and gals, but goooosh these pdf indians are a different breed (fighting on bd airforce thread of all, lol )



Well you have to differentiate between decent Indian folks and these rabid Sanghis. Usually the latter type is a small town or village dweller, used to ideas of 'taking things by force' (goonda and rapist habits but only in groups) and has little education or exposure and is far less cosmopolitan, hence the weird views and opinions...

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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> BAF will almost now certainly buy either 16 F-16 Block 50/52


Do you mean second-hand ones?


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## Che palle

vishwambhar said:


> Lol I didn't know BD has become that rich that it's poor ppl are having morning coffee in Barista.....
> 
> It's not Shiva linga, it's shivalik class warship (you know this very well just trying to earn some cheap claps) who will own any of your floating junk which you call a navy hands down..... In fact if I am an IN commander I would charge penalty on BN for forcing me to waste my costly brahmos, excoset and harpoons for clearing out that junk....


@Bilal9
Amar mone hoy, oke kon bangali meye reject korse , oijonno BD'r upor eto rag, lol


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## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> Keep going.
> 
> I'm enjoying your story.





vishwambhar said:


> No need to troll I'm just telling you the reality... This Sir ji ji ji type comment will only get you some cheap likes from fellow minds... Not going to change a reality....



It may not be just stories. There is no smoke without fire. I have heard/read the same story before that the US discovered some nuclear activity in Burma and it was rudimentary. If I remember correctly, they were not advanced enough to produce nukes and was stopped under US warning.

However, I don't believe that has progressed to the point that they have nukes now. The US will suspend Burmese Generals by the balls if anything like that was true, remember nothing, absolutely nothing escapes the eyes of uncle sam. The only countries they have tolerated with nukes are Pakistan and India so far (for well known reasons), they did not even give the North Koreans a free pass. They have no interest whatsoever to allow the Burmese to have nukes.

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## vishwambhar

Bengal71 said:


> It may not be just stories. There is no smoke without fire. I have heard/read the same story before that the US discovered some nuclear activity in Burma and it was rudimentary. If I remember correctly, they were not advanced enough to produce nukes and was stopped under US warning.
> 
> However, I don't believe that has progressed to the point that they have nukes now. The US will suspend Burmese Generals by the balls if anything like that was true, remember nothing, absolutely nothing escapes the eyes of uncle sam. The only countries they have tolerated with nukes are Pakistan and India so far (for well known reasons), they did not even give the North Koreans a free pass. They have no interest whatsoever to allow the Burmese to have nukes.



USA can do nothing to China ally.... they after all can't run behind everyone in the world.... especially when they are already occupied in ME, Pacific etc.... so they basically have no interest in stopping Burma.... it's not situation like a gulf where nuclear Iran (another actual nuclear power) will be a hurdle in their ambitions..... and as I said nuclear bomb making is quite an easy task.... tough part is to get raw materials, centrifuges and off course gathering courage to stand up to the world wrath.... Pakistan and India have that kind of guts..... don't expect everyone to be like that..... in short Burma is a hidden nuclear power....


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## TopCat

vishwambhar said:


> USA can do nothing to China ally.... they after all can't run behind everyone in the world.... especially when they are already occupied in ME, Pacific etc.... so they basically have no interest in stopping Burma.... it's not situation like a gulf where nuclear Iran (another actual nuclear power) will be a hurdle in their ambitions..... and as I said nuclear bomb making is quite an easy task.... tough part is to get raw materials, centrifuges and off course gathering courage to stand up to the world wrath.... Pakistan and India have that kind of guts..... don't expect everyone to be like that..... in short Burma is a hidden nuclear power....


stop crapping.. mm does not even produce enough electricity to run centrifuge.


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## ghost250

MINN said:


> It's not official but from what I heard it's Russian in origin.
> 
> 
> https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/01/27/myanmar-to-receive-first-su-30sme-this-year/


u just proved me right(none of those r delivered yet)..nd stop giving that websites article as a reference..a cheap website which has no credibility nd run by a bangladeshi psycho..




here he is..!! ( we knw u r getting sukhois)

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## Arthur

Bilal9 said:


> Au contraire - mon frère...
> 
> It means you treat that person with respect deserving of said fairer gender.
> 
> That is what makes a person like you or me gentlemen.


Well. That's a good point.

But shouldn't a gentleman respect everyone?
I believe every human is worthy of respect & has inherent virtues to be respected.

Well untill they proves themselves completely unworthy of it. Like the sanghi scums we encounter.... they are even unworthy of.... I am at loss of words on that one.....

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## vishwambhar

TopCat said:


> stop crapping.. mm does not even produce enough electricity to run centrifuge.



I won't reply further on Burma nuclear capability as I don't want to be a reason for flame wars over Burma by jealoused BD ppl .... let's get back to the topic... as of now you guys need to find a solution on how to counter Burma flankers, fulcrum and latest Thunders for which deals are signed and funds have been allocated.... on BD part all I hear is Boeing confirmed this and LM confirmed that....


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## TopCat

vishwambhar said:


> I won't reply further on Burma nuclear capability as I don't want to be a reason for flame wars over Burma by jealoused BD ppl .... let's get back to the topic... as of now you guys need to find a solution on how to counter Burma flankers, fulcrum and latest Thunders for which deals are signed and funds have been allocated.... on BD part all I hear is Boeing confirmed this and LM confirmed that....


Few thousand AK-47 and ATGM in the hand of Arakan Army will just do fine. I dont think we even need to mobilze our army to counter MM. Border Guard will suffice.


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## Kutuzov

UKBengali said:


> So many inaccuracies in this post:
> 
> 1. "_You are wrong. Boeing didn’t confirm it. They just said if BD wanna buy they will consider to sell. Neither BD nor Boeing made any decision yet. That’s all_."
> 
> "https://www.janes.com/article/93839...-for-bangladesh-attack-helicopter-requirement"
> 
> "_Boeing has confirmed that its AH-64E Apache attack helicopter has been down-selected for a potential programme in Bangladesh."
> ""[In Bangladesh] we have been down-selected not just based on capability, but we went head-to-head with some of our competitors and we were down-selected based on price_."
> 
> Yep BD has chosen the AH-64E over other contenders.
> 
> 
> Just like the Apache it is now nearly 100% certain the F-16 Block 50/52 or Superhornet is coming. Either of these two planes and their AMRAAM missiles will kill your air-force like how Pakistani F-16s hunted the Indian airforce in 2019.
> 
> USA will like nothing better than for BAF to have a field day hunting MAF and they will provide the hardware for us to do this.
> 
> 
> 2. "_Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters_."
> 
> 
> It may have been true that BAF was looking to buy Russian fighters when the YAK-130s were purchased but the Rohingya crisis of 2017 when Russia backed Myanmar has changed the calculus completely.
> 
> https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak_130/
> 
> "_The Yak-130 has a maximum g-loading of +8g to -3g and is capable of executing the flight manoeuvres specific to current operational and developmental combat aircraft, including Su-30, MiG-29, Mirage, F-15, F-16, Eurofighter, F-22 and F-35_."
> 
> Really makes little difference if you want to train to go onto Russian or Western fighters afterwards:
> 
> 2. "_Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard._"
> 
> Nope as the two Type-053H3 already in BD have the FM-90N SAM system which is modern and the upcoming two will also have this SAM as well.
> 
> 3. "_Your downgraded C 13B also lack anti air capabilities_"
> 
> Again it is not downgraded but just has the sonar taken out. BD is building the Durjoy class with anti-sub capabilities to cover this capability.
> Yes none of the BD corvettes and frigates provide area defence but they are better than your modified manpads you have on your frigates
> 
> 4. "_Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile. IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems_"
> 
> BD has ordered 2 AW-139E helicopters with the Seaspray 7000E AESA radar and that should provide target detection from more than 100km away.
> 
> Now please stop writing embarrassing posts such as the one I have just quoted.



Boeing has just down selected AH 64E for the possible tender. They just decided to offer AH 64E for the tender. Not selling. No deals have been made. Try to interpret the word down select correctly. Don’t manipulate it.

Your secondhand Type 053H3 are just refurbished (repainted) and no obvious modifications were made. So unlike F22P, your Type 053 H3 are still carrying old HQ 7 not the FM 90 as you claimed.

Anti air operations and self defense are two different things. For the anti air operations you must have ability to neutralize the enemy air assets and you have to be capable of destroying enemy aircraft before they can release their standoff AShM. 

So you cannot carry out such anti air operations with manual reloading short range self defense SAM like HQ 7. 

AW 139 is just a intermediate lift helicopter and not an ASW one. 

Another big lie in you post is about the Seaspray 7000E AESA radar. 

The official Leonardo website said Bangladesh is buying Seaspray 5000E radar for anti-smuggling and anti-pollution missions. Yet you claimed it as an OTH radar.

So pls don’t pollute this forum with fake and hoax.

For the F 16 saga .. I wish your dreams come true.






https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/press-release-detail/-/detail/seaspray-aesa-globaleye

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## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> I won't reply further on Burma nuclear capability as I don't want to be a reason for flame wars over Burma by jealoused BD ppl .... let's get back to the topic... as of now you guys need to find a solution on how to counter Burma flankers, fulcrum and latest Thunders for which deals are signed and funds have been allocated.... on BD part all I hear is Boeing confirmed this and LM confirmed that....



No please educate us.

No jealousy here partner.

Just genuine curiosity.

How many warheads?

Also what are the means of delivery?

SSM?

F-7? FULCRUMS? 

Please do let us know.

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## Nike

vishwambhar said:


> USA can do nothing to China ally.... they after all can't run behind everyone in the world.... especially when they are already occupied in ME, Pacific etc.... so they basically have no interest in stopping Burma.... it's not situation like a gulf where nuclear Iran (another actual nuclear power) will be a hurdle in their ambitions..... and as I said nuclear bomb making is quite an easy task.... tough part is to get raw materials, centrifuges and off course gathering courage to stand up to the world wrath.... Pakistan and India have that kind of guts..... don't expect everyone to be like that..... in short Burma is a hidden nuclear power....


ASEAN is prohibit their member to developing Nuclear weapons

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> I won't reply further on Burma nuclear capability as I don't want to be a reason for flame wars over Burma by jealoused BD ppl .... let's get back to the topic... as of now you guys need to find a solution on how to counter Burma flankers, fulcrum and latest Thunders for which deals are signed and funds have been allocated.... on BD part all I hear is Boeing confirmed this and LM confirmed that....



There will be no flame war, don't worry. As you see no burmese posters are confirming or supporting your claim. Because they know even if it is PDF there is a limit to fantasies!!


----------



## JohnWick

Avicenna said:


> No please educate us.
> 
> No jealousy here partner.
> 
> Just genuine curiosity.
> 
> How many warheads?
> 
> Also what are the means of delivery?
> 
> SSM?
> 
> F-7? FULCRUMS?
> 
> Please do let us know.


If they have gone nuclear then A dozen of warheads can cause the extinction of your race.....


vishwambhar said:


> I won't reply further on Burma nuclear capability as I don't want to be a reason for flame wars over Burma by jealoused BD ppl .... let's get back to the topic... as of now you guys need to find a solution on how to counter Burma flankers, fulcrum and latest Thunders for which deals are signed and funds have been allocated.... on BD part all I hear is Boeing confirmed this and LM confirmed that....


Actually with no offence Su-30 eventually will become Mig-21 if billions of $ are not spent on them.....


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## BanglarBagh

Avicenna said:


> No please educate us.
> 
> No jealousy here partner.
> 
> Just genuine curiosity.
> 
> How many warheads?
> 
> Also what are the means of delivery?
> 
> SSM?
> 
> F-7? FULCRUMS?
> 
> Please do let us know.



I think you missed the breaking news! It seems that Burma has a huge arsenal of ICBMs hidden in the mountains ready to go. Also, they commissioned a few state of the art SSBNs secretly. There you have it, the means of delivery. Although I'm positive they are keeping some other means of delivery completely secret and confidential but I have a hunch that it might be Space Launched Hypersonic missiles to be launched from their very own space station!!!

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## The Ronin

Kutuzov said:


> This is your super duper navy.
> Buying secondhand frigates and downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.





Kutuzov said:


> Unlike BD they have friends.





Kutuzov said:


> Unlike BD they have vision.





Kutuzov said:


> Truth is bitter.





Kutuzov said:


> Modernizing an armed forces needs VISION. not WORDS.





Kutuzov said:


> MN is just diversifying their capabilities. Thier focus now is on the force multiplication.





Kutuzov said:


> Your focus is just on the buying secondhand frigates.





Kutuzov said:


> BN secondhand frigates are better. I don’t wanna elaborate on that so long as you are happy with you frigates it is ok.





Kutuzov said:


> - JF 17 with C 802AK maritime strike fighters from China.
> - LPD from South Korea.
> - Kilo sub from India.





Kutuzov said:


> Pls stop talking about uncertain future dream of buying this and that.



LOL!! Reading from that ignorant twat's propaganda paddling website, eh?  Suits you perfectly.  Alright, we get the point you are trying so hard to make. Your super-duper navy is a real force multiplier with full focus on making shallow-hulled frigate with MANPAD which can't sustain sea state 6. If you are happy with your 3000 tons corvette then i guess there's nothing wrong with us being happy with our Type 53s which at least better than yours.

Looks like you are too proud to include second hand Kilo sub in the argument which has bigger acoustic signature than our Ming sub but not too proud to mention two second hand Type 53 frigates you operate. You are like, "It's not ok if other operate second hand ships but it's ok if we operate them." If our "second hand" ships helps you sleep better then good luck with that. 

Yes we also don't have any vision. FG 2030, Vision 2040 are just some propaganda to win the next elections and USA, UK, Turkey, Italy are just insignificant countries not allies.

Ok jokes aside except JF-17, Su-30 and Kilo sub none of the shit you mentioned matter actually. You can focus on your military better cause your military has significant influence in your govt, they get more priority and budget. It's true that we are slow at buying and Rohingya issue delayed buying some stuff further but that doesn't mean we aren't buying anything or the process stopped.

No one is permanent ally. You are currently sanctioned by Western countries so it's easier for you to get support and military hardware from China and Russia which is usual for any country which doesn't get support from West. Not so long ago USA didn't want to sell any major arms to us but now after Rohingya issue them, UK, Turkey, Italy are suddenly got more friendly with us. So no need to get too comfy.

https://www.thedailystar.net/frontpage/us-wants-2-defence-deals-bangladesh-1815466
https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...rement-of-high-end-military-equipment-from-us
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pm-v...-a-message-of-strengthening-relations.651533/



Kutuzov said:


> S 100 UAVs (for OTH targeting) from Austria.





Kutuzov said:


> Another thing is that as your navy lack any of OTH targeting platforms, they cannot engage target beyond 40 km even if you have 100 km+ missile. IFF at beyond visual range in the sea require OTH targeting systems.



S-100 is only used for surveillance and reconnaissance not OTH targeting. You don't have OTH radar either and it's not the only thing that can be used for IFF or targeting. BN can utilize their missile's full range with TDL which you lack.



Kutuzov said:


> ATR 42 MPAs with full sensor suite from Israel.



Full sensor suite? That only has a radar and a FLIR. That is similar like our Dornier Do 228 MPA except our ones don't have FLIR, range and speed like your's. But two more will come with AESA radar.

You probably bought a civilian version and then fitted it with those things. Real ATR-42 MPA from OEM looks like this below. Notice what's your MPA is missing. Provide some link and data about the radar and to back your claim that those were fitted by Israel.

https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/products/atr-42mp-1
https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/press-release-detail/-/detail/seaspray-500e-bangladesh



Kutuzov said:


> Apart from buying platforms they are also upgrading thier 12000 ton Naval Shipyard into a 40000 shipyard.


 
Second shipyard of KSY will be able to build 120000 tons vessel. Damen is working on to build their own shipyard here. CDDL's current capability is already 20000 tons, it will increase when it gets upgraded for six frigate. So good luck with your 40000 tons shipyard.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...angladesh-navy-shipyard.629054/#post-11657419
https://www.damen.com/en/news/2020/...lopment_of_bangladesh_shipbuilding_initiative



MINN said:


> don't forget about the 135m frigate with VLS and the two ASW FACs under constration.



We already have two ASW LPC. Now KSY is working on more powerful ASuW LPC with western components. Weren't we hearing about this frigate with VLS for a long time?  How long does it take to build a frigate?  Come back when you have photos to prove.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-navy-will-build-two-new-asuw-lpc-locally.643261/



Kutuzov said:


> They just decided to offer AH 64E for the tender. Not selling.



If they don't intend to sell why would they offer it? Why are you keep talking like idiot?



Kutuzov said:


> Another problem is that you have no decent overhaul facility for MiG 29 and you have to send them to Belarus.



If i am not wrong you don't have it either. Although i remember seeing some photo but not sure of it as Russia not so generous to let others use local MRO plant for their jet.



Kutuzov said:


> But you must remember that none of your frigates has proper CIWS.



Proper CIWS?!  What the hell is "proper" CIWS?!  Otobreda 40 mm is a CIWS. This will be upgraded during MLU. Type 76A dual 37 mm AA gun can also be used as CIWS.



Kutuzov said:


> Their HQ 7 are Chinese copy of outdated 1970s era French Crotale. Even in the Chinese standard those HQ 7 are considered outdated and substandard.



Crotale/HQ-7 are are considered outdated and substandard??!!  Then all these countries including the manufacturers France and China must be pretty stupid to use them still and manufacture new versions. They should have listened to you and use super lethal Igla MANPAD in their ships and other military installation.  Alas!! We don't use 60s Soviet era super standard and super updated SAM. 



Kutuzov said:


> downgraded cheap version corvettes is just funny.



China redesigned the hull for us to sustain heavy sea state in BoB. Second batch of Type-56 has more advanced phased array radar. Which part looks downgraded to you? 

https://quwa.org/2018/02/13/chinas-cssc-launches-c-13b-corvette-for-bangladesh/



Kutuzov said:


> Forget about US and West fighters. Just by looking at the acquisition of Yak 130 one can easily figure out that BAF has no intention to buy any of West made fighters.
> 
> Buying Russian trainers for West fighters didn’t make any sense.



It's not unusual to train in one trainer then fly another type of fighter jet. Indian, Indonesian, Malaysian air force use Western AJT and fly Russian fighter.



Kutuzov said:


> So unlike F22P, your Type 053 H3 are still carrying old HQ 7 not the FM 90 as you claimed.



FM-90 is just a export designation of HQ-7B.

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## vishwambhar

TopCat said:


> Few thousand AK-47 and ATGM in the hand of Arakan Army will just do fine. I dont think we even need to mobilze our army to counter MM. Border Guard will suffice.



Lol where were your arakan fighters and border guards when ruthless fearless Burma was pushing rohingyas in your territory (this move of Burma I obviously don't appreciate).... All I know that whole world saw a helpless cry baby Bangladesh who was shivering even with an idea of confronting Burma....



Avicenna said:


> No please educate us.
> 
> No jealousy here partner.
> 
> Just genuine curiosity.
> 
> How many warheads?
> 
> Also what are the means of delivery?
> 
> SSM?
> 
> F-7? FULCRUMS?
> 
> Please do let us know.



Keep guessing.... Better plan your strategy to counter it.... I'm not here to spoon feed you....


----------



## Che palle

vishwambhar said:


> Lol where were your arakan fighters and border guards when ruthless fearless Burma was pushing rohingyas in your territory (this move of Burma I obviously don't appreciate).... All I know that whole world saw a helpless cry baby Bangladesh who was shivering even with an idea of confronting Burma....


Nobody wants war, dude. 

I think people tend to forget the fact that Myanmar's a military regime. You can't reason with them much.


----------



## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> Lol where were your arakan fighters and border guards when ruthless fearless Burma was pushing rohingyas in your territory (this move of Burma I obviously don't appreciate).... All I know that whole world saw a helpless cry baby Bangladesh who was shivering even with an idea of confronting Burma....
> 
> 
> 
> Keep guessing.... Better plan your strategy to counter it.... I'm not here to spoon feed you....



Can’t answer can you?

Like I said you lost all credibility after declaring Burma a nuclear state.

Also, LOL at the strategic allies bit as well.

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## Michael Corleone

Kutuzov said:


> Another problem is that you have no decent overhaul facility for MiG 29 and you have to send them to Belarus


They’re in Belarus for upgrade to BM standards



vishwambhar said:


> If it was really that capable trust me by now India would have purchased 100 F21 which is offered to us... after all we need that much capable system to face two nuclear enemies right??....and don't give the crap they're forbidden by USA to use against India....they used amaraam that stays a lot.... lol who want's that azad Kashmir with more population to be our responsibility... we have taken what we wanted including the rivers that starts from our kashmir.....yeah vipers that capable only on pdf....


Your defense purchases is dictated on govt corruption. Indian navies previous aircraft carriers are prime example of that



Kutuzov said:


> Boeing has just down selected AH 64E for the possible tender. They just decided to offer AH 64E for the tender. Not selling. No deals have been made. Try to interpret the word down select correctly. Don’t manipulate it.
> 
> Your secondhand Type 053H3 are just refurbished (repainted) and no obvious modifications were made. So unlike F22P, your Type 053 H3 are still carrying old HQ 7 not the FM 90 as you claimed.
> 
> Anti air operations and self defense are two different things. For the anti air operations you must have ability to neutralize the enemy air assets and you have to be capable of destroying enemy aircraft before they can release their standoff AShM.
> 
> So you cannot carry out such anti air operations with manual reloading short range self defense SAM like HQ 7.
> 
> AW 139 is just a intermediate lift helicopter and not an ASW one.
> 
> Another big lie in you post is about the Seaspray 7000E AESA radar.
> 
> The official Leonardo website said Bangladesh is buying Seaspray 5000E radar for anti-smuggling and anti-pollution missions. Yet you claimed it as an OTH radar.
> 
> So pls don’t pollute this forum with fake and hoax.
> 
> For the F 16 saga .. I wish your dreams come true.
> 
> View attachment 602242
> 
> 
> https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/press-release-detail/-/detail/seaspray-aesa-globaleye


You really believe catching Indian fishermen and cleaning the waters is cheaper with a helicopter than a patrol boat?



JohnWick said:


> If they have gone nuclear then A dozen of warheads can cause the extinction of your race


Worry about your own faux racial identity


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## vishwambhar

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re in Belarus for upgrade to BM standards
> 
> 
> Your defense purchases is dictated on govt corruption. Indian navies previous aircraft carriers are prime example of that
> 
> 
> You really believe catching Indian fishermen and cleaning the waters is cheaper with a helicopter than a patrol boat?





Michael Corleone said:


> They’re in Belarus for upgrade to BM standards
> 
> 
> Your defense purchases is dictated on govt corruption. Indian navies previous aircraft carriers are prime example of that
> 
> 
> You really believe catching Indian fishermen and cleaning the waters is cheaper with a helicopter than a patrol boat?
> 
> 
> Worry about your own faux racial identity



Whatever floats your boat Kid.... Even with the curruption we have never compromised with the national security and hence today we are one the most powerful entities on the planet.... And you better not say anything about curruption.... Do you want me to open a thread on curruption in BD forces???



Nike said:


> ASEAN is prohibit their member to developing Nuclear weapons



UN actually doesn't allow new nuclear power after five veto powers.... Who gives a shit???? It's just ASEAN...


----------



## Nike

vishwambhar said:


> Whatever floats your boat Kid.... Even with the curruption we have never compromised with the national security and hence today we are one the most powerful entities on the planet.... And you better not say anything about curruption.... Do you want me to open a thread on curruption in BD forces???
> 
> 
> 
> UN actually doesn't allow new nuclear power after five veto powers.... Who gives a shit???? It's just ASEAN...



Myanmar itself give a fucking shit, they cant let their country under Chinese thumb again. Even they are much more eager to sign the petition and moratorium compared to Indonesia 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asian_Nuclear-Weapon-Free_Zone_Treaty


With ASEAN they right now gaining access toward ASEAN extensive investment and trade, key to engaging other countries like European through European ASEAN business council, Asean +five dialogue and so on. Joining ASEAN had more immediate , medium term and long term benefit in economy terms toward Myanmar compared to pursue Nuclear weapon.

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## vishwambhar

BanglarBagh said:


> I think you missed the breaking news! It seems that Burma has a huge arsenal of ICBMs hidden in the mountains ready to go. Also, they commissioned a few state of the art SSBNs secretly. There you have it, the means of delivery. Although I'm positive they are keeping some other means of delivery completely secret and confidential but I have a hunch that it might be Space Launched Hypersonic missiles to be launched from their very own space station!!!



Don't go overboard on hilsa kid.... Save some.... You will need it when Myanmar actually grab your collar on battel field....


----------



## JohnWick

vishwambhar said:


> Whatever floats your boat Kid.... Even with the curruption we have never compromised with the national security and hence today we are one the most powerful entities on the planet.... And you better not say anything about curruption.... Do you want me to open a thread on curruption in BD forces???
> 
> 
> 
> UN actually doesn't allow new nuclear power after five veto powers.... Who gives a shit???? It's just ASEAN...


Powerful entities?.....
AIDS Virus is whooping inside your country first control this HIV virus then make toilets......


----------



## Avicenna

vishwambhar said:


> Don't go overboard on hilsa kid.... Save some.... You will need it when Myanmar actually grab your collar on battel field....



LOL it was a nice act while it lasted.

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## vishwambhar

JohnWick said:


> Powerful entities?.....
> AIDS Virus is whooping inside your country first control this HIV virus then make toilets......



I'm purely talking in terms of military dude.... The same military which has annexed kashmir.... Instead of worrying about our toilets plan strategy to liberate your JAGULAR VEIN.....


----------



## JohnWick

vishwambhar said:


> I'm purely talking in terms of military dude.... The same military which has annexed kashmir.... Instead of worrying about our toilets plan strategy to liberate your JAGULAR VEIN.....


As Kashmir is concerned it is necessary to endangered billions of life of both Indo pak citizens under nuclear attack threat?
Innocent children which even do not know that What is an India or Pakistan?
you want to convert our entire region including you into thermonuclear energy ?
and I was only saying truth about gayhind.


----------



## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> Don't go overboard on hilsa kid.... Save some.... You will need it when Myanmar actually grab your collar on battel field....



Lol. Did that burn?!
It's you who's going overboard. It's ok for you to fantasize because it's pdf. But it's not a place to write fiction. By the way you gave me a big reason to laugh so I just wrote the second part of your fiction and I see you are angry because you didn't get to do it yourself!
Hilsha kid was it? Well to be honest I never liked fish as I'm a meat lover you see! Specially gao mata meat. So, don't go around posting nonsense after getting drunk on gao mata piss!
As for Myanmar grabbing my collar by all means tell them to try. I can assure you their bananas and balls will be rolling on the ground before they even get to reach my collar!
Lols, Burma the hidden nuclear superpower. What a laugh! Joke of the year!!!


----------



## vishwambhar

JohnWick said:


> As Kashmir is concerned it is necessary to endangered billions of life of both Indo pak citizens under nuclear attack threat?
> Innocent children which even do not know that What is an India or Pakistan?
> you want to convert our entire region including you into thermonuclear energy ?
> and I was only saying truth about gayhind.



Lol then stop giving nuclear threats every now and then.... It's Pakistan who talks nuclear not us....



BanglarBagh said:


> Lol. Did that burn?!
> It's you who's going overboard. It's ok for you to fantasize because it's pdf. But it's not a place to write fiction. By the way you gave me a big reason to laugh so I just wrote the second part of your fiction and I see you are angry because you didn't get to do it yourself!
> Hilsha kid was it? Well to be honest I never liked fish as I'm a meat lover you see! Specially gao mata meat. So, don't go around posting nonsense after getting drunk on gao mata piss!
> As for Myanmar grabbing my collar by all means tell them to try. I can assure you their bananas and balls will be rolling on the ground before they even get to reach my collar!
> Lols, Burma the hidden nuclear superpower. What a laugh! Joke of the year!!!



Haha they already grabbed BD collar by pushing so many rohingyas (an act I never appreciate).... What could you do about their bananas and balls???


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## JohnWick

vishwambhar said:


> Haha they already grabbed BD collar by pushing so many rohingyas (an act I never appreciate).... What could you do about their bananas and balls???


They can defeat Myanmar by their economy


----------



## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> Lol then stop giving nuclear threats every now and then.... It's Pakistan who talks nuclear not us....
> 
> 
> 
> Haha they already grabbed BD collar by pushing so many rohingyas (an act I never appreciate).... What could you do about their bananas and balls???



If you call that collar grabbing then BD has already crushed Indian balls! As BGB killed so many BSF idiots in the past years when they tried to act like bullies. In retaliation BSF can only shoot innocent BD civilians near the border!

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## JohnWick

BanglarBagh said:


> If you call that collar grabbing then BD has already crushed Indian balls! As BGB killed so many BSF idiots in the past years when they tried to act like bullies. In retaliation BSF can only shoot innocent BD civilians near the border!


Where did Haseena got these iron balls to kill BSF.....The cause of existence of Bangladesh.....You basically you are killing your cause of existence?


----------



## vishwambhar

JohnWick said:


> They can defeat Myanmar by their economy



Yes agreed that BD economic growth is mind blowing and to top it up they have now access to top of the line western weapons.... But Myanmar is just a different story which cannot be deterred by any of these things.... India as a strategic ally of BD and friend of Myanmar only can try to calm down the things between two..... Hope there will be a peace...



BanglarBagh said:


> If you call that collar grabbing then BD has already crushed Indian balls! As BGB killed so many BSF idiots in the past years when they tried to act like bullies. In retaliation BSF can only shoot innocent BD civilians near the border!



So you mean to say that BSF is scared to retaliate against Bangladesh..... 
We can make your BGB parade on our Republic Day in Delhi the day we want.... You are being tolerated only because you are our strategic ally....

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## UKBengali

Aung Zaya said:


> AW-139 is medium SAR and Utility Helicopter and it can not perform any target detection. .




No BD specifically ordered two of these babies:

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/navy-future-lynx/








The version is AW-159E which is specifically designed to attack ships and submarines.

See those two nose mounted sensors and also torpedoes hung underneath? You will have two of these cutting-edge Western helicopters out there ready to r*pe your Navy if required.

That AESA radar can lock onto ships from more than 100km away and can provide target data to BN corvettes/frigates to attack your ships with anti-ship missiles.




Aung Zaya said:


> why not choose F-22 and F-35 ? i thought u guys just said like " we're getting Su-30 and it's 100% sure. we will destroy ur AF " since many years ago , even before we order Su-30. Now, we are about to receive / already received first batch of Su-30 delivery.



BD President confirmed on live TV that 8 units of attack helicopters and 16 fighters will be brought. Now confirmed by Boeing that BD has selected AH-64E for it's attack helicopter requirement.

USA also said that it wants BD to buy US weapons and so that means it will not allow Sweden to sell Gripen E as that has US engine and so the natural choice now is 16 F-16 Block 50/52s or maybe Super-hornets(less likely in my opinion).
16 of either of these planes are enough to go hunting on your Chinese/Russian airforce. It will be very good hunting for BAF I think.

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## Bengal71

vishwambhar said:


> USA can do nothing to China ally.... they after all can't run behind everyone in the world.... especially when they are already occupied in ME, Pacific etc.... so they basically have no interest in stopping Burma.... it's not situation like a gulf where nuclear Iran (another actual nuclear power) will be a hurdle in their ambitions..... and as I said nuclear bomb making is quite an easy task.... tough part is to get raw materials, centrifuges and off course gathering courage to stand up to the world wrath.... Pakistan and India have that kind of guts..... don't expect everyone to be like that..... in short Burma is a hidden nuclear power....



USA may not be able to do anything against a Chinese ally but they would do everything to make their life difficult including crippling sanctions and targeted assassinations of key figures. There is no news, no hue and cry from the USA about Burmese nukes. The absolute minimum that can be expected is they give statements about it and world media running stories on it. There is absolutely nothing of that sort from USA.



ghost250 said:


> u just proved me right(none of those r delivered yet)..nd stop giving that websites article as a reference..a cheap website which has no credibility nd run by a bangladeshi psycho..
> View attachment 602212
> here he is..!! ( we knw u r getting sukhois)



Who is he? Syed Abal Khan?

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## Michael Corleone

vishwambhar said:


> Whatever floats your boat Kid.... Even with the curruption we have never compromised with the national security and hence today we are one the most powerful entities on the planet.... And you better not say anything about curruption.... Do you want me to open a thread on curruption in BD forces???


One of the most powerful entities on the planet? For that you’ll have to start a meat based diet. Lmao 
As for corruption, instead of opening a thread on bd corruption, open a thread on how your military personnel complains they don’t get good food to eat, only a chapati and dal for the day and then we can talk

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> One of the most powerful entities on the planet? For that you’ll have to start a meat based diet. Lmao
> As for corruption, instead of opening a thread on bd corruption, open a thread on how your military personnel complains they don’t get good food to eat, only a chapati and dal for the day and then we can talk



Bhookhey Aadmi jungibaaz!! Indian Supapawa secrets revealed...

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## leonblack08

Bilal9 said:


> Bhookhey Aadmi jungibaaz!! Indian Supapawa secrets revealed...



I felt bad for the guy. And he probably got court martialed already. Poor guy.

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## VikingRaider

Bilal9 said:


> Bhookhey Aadmi jungibaaz!! Indian Supapawa secrets revealed...


Wow never thought that Indians treat their soldiers in this way! Feeling bad for these guys who do duty all day with such food. Feeling bad because I am human being, not inhumane savage like supa power guys who shoot people at sight!

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## BanglarBagh

vishwambhar said:


> Yes agreed that BD economic growth is mind blowing and to top it up they have now access to top of the line western weapons.... But Myanmar is just a different story which cannot be deterred by any of these things.... India as a strategic ally of BD and friend of Myanmar only can try to calm down the things between two..... Hope there will be a peace...
> 
> 
> 
> So you mean to say that BSF is scared to retaliate against Bangladesh.....
> We can make your BGB parade on our Republic Day in Delhi the day we want.... You are being tolerated only because you are our strategic ally....



We can also make your armed forces contingent parade on our Victory Day in Dhaka the day we want. So, that analogy doesn't make much difference... 
And you are making it obvious how important BD is to India that you have to think of us as strategic allies even while tolerating us! Do you understand how lame this sounds? How the supa pawa has come to this when they have to tolerate us to be allies yet some of you claim BD can be annexed by India in a day if India wanted. The contradiction in your statements is truly hilarious!!!

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## Bilal9

leonblack08 said:


> I felt bad for the guy. And he probably got court martialed already. Poor guy.



Yup he got kicked out of BSF. But congressis I am sure are keeping him afloat somehow...



Arthur said:


> Well. That's a good point.
> 
> But shouldn't a gentleman respect everyone?
> I believe every human is worthy of respect & has inherent virtues to be respected.
> 
> Well untill they proves themselves completely unworthy of it. Like the sanghi scums we encounter.... they are even unworthy of.... I am at loss of words on that one.....



I have problems with keeping my temper gentlemanly at times. Quite a bit. Can't suffer fools and Sanghis (ignorant racists in general).



Che palle said:


> @Bilal9
> Amar mone hoy, oke kon bangali meye reject korse , oijonno BD'r upor eto rag, lol



Hotey parey, oshombhob kisu na. Betar 'johnson' soto holey ar ki korbey, he he.


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## Avicenna

*https://www.facebook.com/DTB2.O/?hc...eb096Ysj9xIeJWWxaMwuQyJS5E_WyqWA4&__tn__=kC-R

Defense Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
47 mins · 
#Big_Breaking

#Air_Force_Dhamakaa....

Bangladesh Air Force is getting huge hardwares under 2019-20 fiscal year....officially claimed in Parliament

বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য অত্যাধুনিক সরঞ্জাম কেনা হচ্ছে বলে জানিয়েছেন সংসদ কাজে প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয়ের দায়িত্বপ্রাপ্ত আইন বিচার ও সংসদ বিষয়ক মন্ত্রী আনিসুল হক। আজ বৃহস্পতিবার স্পিকার ড. শিরীন শারমিন চৌধুরীর সভাপতিত্বে শুরু হওয়া অধিবেশনে প্রশ্নোত্তর পর্বে তিনি এতথ্য জানান।
সরকারি দলের সদস্য মুহিবুর রহমানের প্রশ্নের জবাবে মন্ত্রী জানান, ২০১৯-২০ অর্থবছরে বিমান বাহিনীকে আরও গতিশীল, যুগোপযোগী ও আধুনিকায়নের লক্ষ্য ১৬টি মাল্টিরোল কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট (MRCA), ৮টি Attack Helicopters , তিনটি VVIP Helicopters, দু’টি এয়ার ডিফেন্স রাডার ইউনিট, ২৪টি Primary Trainer Aircraft, দু’টি Light Aircraft , একটি K-8W Simulator, চারটি MRAP Vehicles , একটি AW-119KX Simulator, দু’টি Counter UAV surveillance Radar এবং একটি Mobile ATC Tower ক্রয়ের কার্যক্রম প্রক্রিয়াধীন আছে।

একই প্রশ্নের জবাবে আনিসুল হক জানান, বাংলাদেশি শান্তিরক্ষা মিশনের আওতায় বিস্ফোরক হামলা থেকে বাংলাদেশি শান্তিরক্ষীদের নিরাপত্তা দেওয়ার জন্য ১৫টি মাইন রেসিস্ট্যান্ট অ্যাম্বুস প্রোটেক্টেড (MRAP) ইউথ জ্যামার কেনা হয়েছে এবং যুক্তরাষ্ট্র থেকে আরও ৫০টি MRAP কেনার চুক্তি করা হয়েছে।

Link- https://www.kalerkantho.com/online/national/2020/…/30/868890

Can anybody translate?

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## ghost250

Avicenna said:


> *https://www.facebook.com/DTB2.O/?hc...eb096Ysj9xIeJWWxaMwuQyJS5E_WyqWA4&__tn__=kC-R
> 
> Defense Technology of Bangladesh-DTB*
> 47 mins ·
> #Big_Breaking
> 
> #Air_Force_Dhamakaa....
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force is getting huge hardwares under 2019-20 fiscal year....officially claimed in Parliament
> 
> বিমানবাহিনীর জন্য অত্যাধুনিক সরঞ্জাম কেনা হচ্ছে বলে জানিয়েছেন সংসদ কাজে প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয়ের দায়িত্বপ্রাপ্ত আইন বিচার ও সংসদ বিষয়ক মন্ত্রী আনিসুল হক। আজ বৃহস্পতিবার স্পিকার ড. শিরীন শারমিন চৌধুরীর সভাপতিত্বে শুরু হওয়া অধিবেশনে প্রশ্নোত্তর পর্বে তিনি এতথ্য জানান।
> সরকারি দলের সদস্য মুহিবুর রহমানের প্রশ্নের জবাবে মন্ত্রী জানান, ২০১৯-২০ অর্থবছরে বিমান বাহিনীকে আরও গতিশীল, যুগোপযোগী ও আধুনিকায়নের লক্ষ্য ১৬টি মাল্টিরোল কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট (MRCA), ৮টি Attack Helicopters , তিনটি VVIP Helicopters, দু’টি এয়ার ডিফেন্স রাডার ইউনিট, ২৪টি Primary Trainer Aircraft, দু’টি Light Aircraft , একটি K-8W Simulator, চারটি MRAP Vehicles , একটি AW-119KX Simulator, দু’টি Counter UAV surveillance Radar এবং একটি Mobile ATC Tower ক্রয়ের কার্যক্রম প্রক্রিয়াধীন আছে।
> 
> একই প্রশ্নের জবাবে আনিসুল হক জানান, বাংলাদেশি শান্তিরক্ষা মিশনের আওতায় বিস্ফোরক হামলা থেকে বাংলাদেশি শান্তিরক্ষীদের নিরাপত্তা দেওয়ার জন্য ১৫টি মাইন রেসিস্ট্যান্ট অ্যাম্বুস প্রোটেক্টেড (MRAP) ইউথ জ্যামার কেনা হয়েছে এবং যুক্তরাষ্ট্র থেকে আরও ৫০টি MRAP কেনার চুক্তি করা হয়েছে।
> 
> Link- https://www.kalerkantho.com/online/national/2020/…/30/868890
> 
> Can anybody translate?


16 multirole combat aircraft,8 attack helicopter,3 vvip helicopter,2 air defence radar unit,24 primary trainer aircraft,2 light aircraft,1 k-8 simulator,4 mrap vehicles,1 aw-119kx simulator,2 counter uav surveillance Radar,1 mobile atc towers Procurement is in progress.15 MRAP has been bought for army,50 more MRAPs deal has been concluded with USA..these will join our army within this year

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## Arthur

16 MRCA
8 Attack Heli
24 Primary trainer
2 Light Aircraft 
3 VVIP Heli
2 AD Radar
4 MRAP
Simulator
& Mobile ATC Tower is on process under fiscal year 19-20

That's a nice list worth ~5 billion. Nice.

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## Tanveer666

What does this mean for the old 12 MRCA tender?


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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> What does this mean for the old 12 MRCA tender?


Outdated.



Arthur said:


> 16 MRCA
> 8 Attack Heli
> 24 Primary trainer
> 2 Light Aircraft
> 3 VVIP Heli
> 2 AD Radar
> 4 MRAP
> Simulator
> & Mobile ATC Tower is on process under fiscal year 19-20
> 
> That's a nice list worth ~5 billion. Nice.


So this year defense budget will jump to 8 billion? :o


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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> Outdated.
> 
> 
> So this year defense budget will jump to 8 billion? :o


It will see an increase that's alright. 

But not sure about the number, since lot of these will be bought on G2G basis, the funds will come through government's procurement budget. Defence budget for 20-21 will be around 5-6 billion dollars.

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> It will see an increase that's alright.
> 
> But not sure about the number, since lot of these will be bought on G2G basis, the funds will come through government's procurement budget. Defence budget for 20-21 will be around 5-6 billion dollars.



Current defence budget growing at rate of economy(7-8%) will suffice to buy all this hardware.
Remember that this items will be paid for over 3-5 years.

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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> Current defence budget growing at rate of economy(7-8%) will suffice to buy all this hardware.
> Remember that this items will be paid for over 3-5 years.


Well the current budget stands at 4 billion dollars. An increase of 1.5 percent will be a lot of money. Enough to attract any major defence company.

Recent close relationship with Boeing on civilian aircraft deals shows gov. has the balls to spend & Boeing's willingness to cooperate with us.

If it's any indication Super Hornets will be a top runner for MRCA.

But tune in to PM's Italy visit. I am hoping major development from that front.

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> Well the current budget stands at 4 billion dollars. An increase of 1.5 percent increase will be a lot of money. Enough yo attract any major defence company.
> 
> Recent close relationship with Boeing on civilian aircraft deals shows gov. has the balls to spend & Boeing's willingness to cooperate with us.
> 
> If it's any indication Super Hornets will be a top runner for MRCA.
> 
> But tune to to PM's Italy visit. I am hoping major development from that front.




I am expecting next to nothing on the Euro-fighter front as some have mentioned.

Anything less than Tranche 2 Block 15 Euro-fighters will need AMRAAM and USA will almost certainly veto this as they want BD into the US weapons eco-system.

The new build Euro-fighters that can fire Meteor come in at over 100 million US dollars a plane. Super-hornet is around 80 million US dollars per plane but is substantially cheaper than Euro-fighter to operate and so in my opinion has an outside chance against refurbished F-16 Block 50/52.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> I am expecting next to nothing on the Euro-fighter front as some have mentioned.
> 
> Anything less than Tranche 2 Block 15 Euro-fighters will need AMRAAM and USA will almost certainly veto this as they want BD into the US weapons eco-system.
> 
> The new build Euro-fighters that can fire Meteor come in at over 100 million US dollars a plane. Super-hornet is around 80 million US dollars per plane but is substantially cheaper than Euro-fighter to operate and so in my opinion has an outside chance against refurbished F-16 Block 50/52.


What variant of f18s do you reckon, also why not the latest f16s?


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## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1222821586505433088
Bangladesh Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat will be at Eurasia Airshow 2020 as Official Delegation. Bangladesh Hava Kuvvetleri Komutanı Mareşal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, Resmi Delegasyon olarak
@eurasiairshow
2020'de.











@hakankrt

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## Avicenna

If nothing else, apparently many used Tranche 1 are available with plans for sale to interested buyers.

https://www.janes.com/article/92375/germany-to-replace-early-eurofighters-under-project-quadriga

*Germany to replace early Eurofighters under Project Quadriga*
*Gareth Jennings, Manching, Germany* - Jane's Defence Weekly
05 November 2019





The Luftwaffe is to retire its 38 Tranche 1 Eurofighters and replace them with Tranche 3 aircraft fitted to the new Quadriga configuration. Source: Airbus
The German government is to replace its entire fleet of Tranche 1 Eurofighter combat aircraft under a new project revealed by Airbus Defence and Space (DS) on 5 November.

Speaking at the company's Manching facility near Munich, Kurt Rossner, Head of Air Combat, said that Airbus DS is close to signing a contract with Berlin to replace the Luftwaffe's 38 Tranche 1 Eurofighters under a programme to be called Project Quadriga. These early aircraft would then be sold to the international market before being replaced in Luftwaffe service by new-build Tranche 3 platforms that will include the E-Scan Mk 1 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and updated software.

"I would say that we are within weeks of signing the Quadriga contract with the German government - we are now in the final stages," Rossner said, adding that the sale of these early-variant aircraft will deliver the necessary capacity for the Luftwaffe as it looks to replace them with the latest-standard models. The 38 aircraft comprise seven twin-seaters and 26 single-seaters, with options for a further five single-seaters. No customer has yet been secured for these Tranche 1 aircraft to be sold-off.

While the Quadriga-standard Eurofighter is geared at the Luftwaffe, Rossner said that Switzerland would be a good match also as it looks to replace its ageing Northrop F-5E/F Tiger II and Boeing F/A-18 Hornet fleets. Airbus has proposed up to 40 Eurofighters for Switzerland, with type selection by the Federal Council due at the end of 2020 / early 2021.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> If nothing else, apparently many used Tranche 1 are available with plans for sale to interested buyers.
> 
> https://www.janes.com/article/92375/germany-to-replace-early-eurofighters-under-project-quadriga
> 
> *Germany to replace early Eurofighters under Project Quadriga*
> *Gareth Jennings, Manching, Germany* - Jane's Defence Weekly
> 05 November 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Luftwaffe is to retire its 38 Tranche 1 Eurofighters and replace them with Tranche 3 aircraft fitted to the new Quadriga configuration. Source: Airbus
> The German government is to replace its entire fleet of Tranche 1 Eurofighter combat aircraft under a new project revealed by Airbus Defence and Space (DS) on 5 November.
> 
> Speaking at the company's Manching facility near Munich, Kurt Rossner, Head of Air Combat, said that Airbus DS is close to signing a contract with Berlin to replace the Luftwaffe's 38 Tranche 1 Eurofighters under a programme to be called Project Quadriga. These early aircraft would then be sold to the international market before being replaced in Luftwaffe service by new-build Tranche 3 platforms that will include the E-Scan Mk 1 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and updated software.
> 
> "I would say that we are within weeks of signing the Quadriga contract with the German government - we are now in the final stages," Rossner said, adding that the sale of these early-variant aircraft will deliver the necessary capacity for the Luftwaffe as it looks to replace them with the latest-standard models. The 38 aircraft comprise seven twin-seaters and 26 single-seaters, with options for a further five single-seaters. No customer has yet been secured for these Tranche 1 aircraft to be sold-off.
> 
> While the Quadriga-standard Eurofighter is geared at the Luftwaffe, Rossner said that Switzerland would be a good match also as it looks to replace its ageing Northrop F-5E/F Tiger II and Boeing F/A-18 Hornet fleets. Airbus has proposed up to 40 Eurofighters for Switzerland, with type selection by the Federal Council due at the end of 2020 / early 2021.



Interesting!

Problem is that none of these planes can fire Meteor and would need AMRAAM - I am thinking that USA would veto AMRAAM as they want BD to buy US fighters.

Just read that Spain is upgrading it's Tranche 1 Eurofighter so that they should be able to carry the new AESA radar and also fire the Meteor.

With these German planes being retired and available on the market, BAF could potentially make a deal for a squadron (16) and then partner with the UK to get them upgraded with AESA and hence be able to fire Meteor. I cannot see BAF paying anymore than 50 million US dollars for the airframes and the upgrades.

Refurbished Eurofighters, upgraded with AESA radar and hence able to fire Meteor, would be by far the best option for BAF.

16 of these planes would be more than enough to take on MAF and be the start of building a sizeable force to deter India.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Interesting!
> 
> Problem is that none of these planes can fire Meteor and would need AMRAAM - I am thinking that USA would veto AMRAAM as they want BD to buy US fighters.
> 
> Just read that Spain is upgrading it's Tranche 1 Eurofighter so that they should be able to carry the new AESA radar and also fire the Meteor.
> 
> With these German planes being retired and available on the market, BAF could potentially make a deal for a squadron (16) and then partner with the UK to get them upgraded with AESA and hence be able to fire Meteor. I cannot see BAF paying anymore than 50 million US dollars for the airframes and the upgrades.
> 
> Refurbished Eurofighters, upgraded with AESA radar and hence able to fire Meteor, would be by far the best option for BAF.
> 
> 16 of these planes would be more than enough to take on MAF and be the start of building a sizeable force to deter India.



Exactly.

The point is....there are now many examples of used Tranche 1 potentially up for sale....and there is a path to upgrade as demonstrated by Spain to mount Meteor/AESA.

Just another option for Bangladesh.

https://www.airforce-technology.com...t-upgraded-tranche-1-eurofighter-fighter-jet/

https://www.janes.com/article/86847/spain-receives-first-upgraded-tranche-1-eurofighter

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The point is....there are now many examples of used Tranche 1 potentially up for sale....and there is a path to upgrade as demonstrated by Spain to mount Meteor/AESA.
> 
> Just another option for Bangladesh.
> 
> https://www.airforce-technology.com...t-upgraded-tranche-1-eurofighter-fighter-jet/
> 
> https://www.janes.com/article/86847/spain-receives-first-upgraded-tranche-1-eurofighter



Yep, it will be more expensive to buy the planes, operate and obtain munitions but the extra capability and freedom from US dictats will be worth it.

Interestingly Eurofighter is slightly better at air to air than Rafale and so BAF would end up with a slightly better fighter than anything India has.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Yep, it will be more expensive to buy the planes, operate and obtain munitions but the extra capability and freedom from US dictate will be worth it.
> 
> Interestingly Eurofighter is slightly better at air to air than Rafale and so BAF would end up with a slightly better fighter than anything India has.



For now this is all speculation right?

But there is smoke.

Lets hope and pray this happens.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> For now this is all speculation right?
> 
> But there is smoke.
> 
> Lets hope and pray this happens.



Up to BAF/BD in the end but this adds an extra realistic option in terms of price.

Germany would sell to BD and UK would be more than happy to upgrade with AESA and supply Meteor - UK makes the AESA radar and leads the Meteor programme.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Up to BAF/BD in the end but this adds an extra realistic option in terms of price.
> 
> Germany would sell to BD and UK would be more than happy to upgrade with AESA and supply Meteor - UK makes the AESA radar and leads the Meteor programme.



Yup.

Very feasible.

Between this, any potential Super Hornets or F-16s, I would be pleased.

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## BanglarBagh

UKBengali said:


> Interesting!
> 
> Problem is that none of these planes can fire Meteor and would need AMRAAM - I am thinking that USA would veto AMRAAM as they want BD to buy US fighters.
> 
> Just read that Spain is upgrading it's Tranche 1 Eurofighter so that they should be able to carry the new AESA radar and also fire the Meteor.
> 
> With these German planes being retired and available on the market, BAF could potentially make a deal for a squadron (16) and then partner with the UK to get them upgraded with AESA and hence be able to fire Meteor. I cannot see BAF paying anymore than 50 million US dollars for the airframes and the upgrades.
> 
> Refurbished Eurofighters, upgraded with AESA radar and hence able to fire Meteor, would be by far the best option for BAF.
> 
> 16 of these planes would be more than enough to take on MAF and be the start of building a sizeable force to deter India.



Have you considered the possibility of purchasing EFT and also F-16s?! In this case both the platforms should be refurbished as buying new EFTs and Vipers is not financially viable. This scenario may get us AMRAAMs for both the platforms. Even then, I would prefer the AESA/Meteor upgrade for the tranche 1 EFTs, if we get to purchase the bird at all!!!


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## UKBengali

BanglarBagh said:


> Have you considered the possibility of purchasing EFT and also F-16s?! In this case both the platforms should be refurbished as buying new EFTs and Vipers is not financially viable. This scenario may get us AMRAAMs for both the platforms. Even then, I would prefer the AESA/Meteor upgrade for the tranche 1 EFTs, if we get to purchase the bird at all!!!




No as this is not geopolitically smart.

Remember West(led by USA) wants to build up India to confront China.

Best that BD sticks with one Western fighter to take on Myanmar and then goes with China(J-10CE/FC-31) to deter India.

BD needs a Western/Chinese mix and take out Russia from any major weapons systems going forward.


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## Avicenna

Wonder what the 24 trainers will be?


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Wonder what the 24 trainers will be?


More PT 6s aee coming. This time little bit more capable to train for the future.

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## UKBengali

Guys, these massive contracts of around 5 billion US dollar for BAF will be signed before June 30 this year as this is when the fiscal ends.
Cannot wait for what the 16 fighters are going to be!

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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> Guys, these massive contracts of around 5 billion US dollar for BAF will be signed before June 30 this year as this is when the fiscal ends.
> Cannot wait for what the 16 fighters are going to be!


If I am not wrong the contract for 24 trainers are already signed. BAF will sign KRONOS Land & RAT 31 radar deals during EURASIA Review in Turkey. 

Deals for helis will be signed during PM's Italy tour & a clear headway in MRCA induction.

Exiting times are ahead, my friends! Cheers!!

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> If I am not wrong the contract for 24 trainers are already signed. BAF will sign KRONOS Land & RAT 31 radar deals during EURASIA Review in Turkey.
> 
> Deals for helis will be signed during PM's Italy tour & a clear headway in MRCA induction.
> 
> Exiting times are ahead, my friends! Cheers!!




MRCA will be refurbished Eurofighter(AESA and Meteor), new build Superhornet(AESA and AIM-120C7) and refurbished F-16 Block 50/52(Mechanical radar + AIM-120C7). This is the most anticipated BD military procurement probably of all time and we shall find out by June 30 this year.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Yep, it will be more expensive to buy the planes, operate and obtain munitions but the extra capability and freedom from US dictats will be worth it.
> 
> Interestingly Eurofighter is slightly better at air to air than Rafale and so BAF would end up with a slightly better fighter than anything India has.



16 EFT checks IAF for 5-7 years..... they will only have 36 for a while and they wont be placing all of them against us. 

Everything else in BAF or IAF inventory can be taken out by BVR missiles from EFT or raffles so very much redundant.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> 16 EFT checks IAF for 5-7 years..... they will only have 36 for a while and they wont be placing all of them against us.
> 
> Everything else in BAF or IAF inventory can be taken out by BVR missiles from EFT or raffles so very much redundant.




EF(with AESA and Meteor) is good but 16 cannot handle over 200 IAF SU-30MKIs/Mig-29s and Mirage 2000s coming at it, let alone when paired with 12-18 Rafales.

I am guessing that if BAF went for refurbished Euro-fighters then it would get something like 12 Meteors per plane, which would be 2 loads worth. This makes it just under 200 missiles and so even if every single missile hit it's target(unlikely) then IAF would still have plenty of fighters left to attack BD.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> EF(with AESA and Meteor) is good but 16 cannot handle over 200 IAF SU-30MKIs/Mig-29s and Mirage 2000s coming at it, let alone when paired with 12-18 Rafales.
> 
> I am guessing that if BAF went for refurbished Euro-fighters then it would get something like 12 Meteors per plane, which would be 2 loads worth. This makes it just under 200 missiles and so even if every single missile hit it's target(unlikely) then IAF would still have plenty of fighters left to attack BD.



Here other BD assets comes into play. Can IAF really get 200 jets airborne at the same time....i absolutely assure you they can not. This is not WW2.

Can BD get 30 jets up in the air .... yes it can. Will anti aircraft defense kick in yes...

BAF will play a defensive role and 16 EFT in my opinion will completely change the game. Additionally just 2 loads of missile? Inventory seems a little light. You are not going to buy a jet for 10s of millions and then cheap out on 1 million a piece missile.


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## Avicenna

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> With $5Bln you can establish an aircraft build factory with some weapons as well....
> 
> More *jobs*, independence and freedom of integeration...
> 
> *It is just an educational question? *
> 
> I rather want to see a very robust and armed to teeth BD as you know!



I think there is a parallel effort.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...viation-university-set-for-takeoff-in-january

https://en.prothomalo.com/bangladesh/news/200698/Saudi-Arabia-to-build-aircraft-maintenance

But keep in mind, these above steps are analgous to buying notebooks before kindergarten starts.

Building modern fighters is more like taking advanced mathematics classes in college.

So these are very early steps that take time.

Perhaps in the future, some assembly will be taking place in country as its aviation related human capital increases in capability.

But for the short term, its obvious a significant upgrade in tactical capability is required which necessitates hardware purchases of this nature.

And even that is significant progress for a nation like Bangladesh.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Here other BD assets comes into play. Can IAF really get 200 jets airborne at the same time....i absolutely assure you they can not. This is not WW2.
> 
> Can BD get 30 jets up in the air .... yes it can. Will anti aircraft defense kick in yes...
> 
> BAF will play a defensive role and 16 EFT in my opinion will completely change the game. Additionally just 2 loads of missile? Inventory seems a little light. You are not going to buy a jet for 10s of millions and then cheap out on 1 million a piece missile.



It is usually 2 loads of AAMs in fighters. That is the way it is with most airforces.

200 Meteor BVRAAMs for 16 fighters is about right and this will come to a cool 0.5 billion US dollars and so not exactly cheap.

Remember that BAF would also need to buy over 100 WVRAAMs to go with this - probably ASRAAMs from UK.


Edit - just found this:

https://www.forces.net/news/uk-given-approval-buy-us-missiles

"The United States has approved the sale of AIM-120D Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) at a cost of $650 million.

The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency says the UK Government has requested to buy up to 200 of the missiles.

The AMRAAM will be used on Britain's variant of the F-35 aircraft."

200 AIM-120D which is similar to Meteor for 650 million US dollars and that would be for the 48 F-35B jets that UK has purchased.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> MRCA will be refurbished Eurofighter(AESA and Meteor), new build Superhornet(AESA and AIM-120C7) and refurbished F-16 Block 50/52(Mechanical radar + AIM-120C7). This is the most anticipated BD military procurement probably of all time and we shall find out by June 30 this year.



I can’t see Eurofighter, Super Hornet AND Viper.

Honestly, I’d be happy with just one of the three.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I can’t see Eurofighter, Super Hornet AND Viper.
> 
> Honestly, I’d be happy with just one of the three.



I meant it will be one of those three.

My preference in order from highest to lowest:

1. Refurbished Eurofighter with AESA radar + Meteor.

Only a single squadron of 16 is ample firepower to handle the whole of the MAF with current inventory and orders placed.
Actually it will wipe them out in one sortie in theory if MAF dares throw them all against BAF.

2. Refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 with AIM-120C7

Cheap to buy and operate and will be able to handle current MAF plans.

3. New build Superhornet with AIM-120C7

Expensive to buy but very useful in maritime role.
Will become obsolete in the 2030s as 5th gen fighters proliferate.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I meant it will be one of those three.
> 
> My preference in order from highest to lowest:
> 
> 1. Refurbished Eurofighter with AESA radar + Meteor.
> 
> Only a single squadron of 16 is ample firepower to handle the whole of the MAF with current inventory and orders placed.
> Actually it will wipe them out in one sortie in theory if MAF dares throw them all against BAF.
> 
> 2. Refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 with AIM-120C7
> 
> Cheap to buy and operate and will be able to handle current MAF plans.
> 
> 3. New build Superhornet with AIM-120C7
> 
> Expensive to buy but very useful in maritime role.
> Will become obsolete in the 2030s as 5th gen fighters proliferate.



I would rather build a force of Eurofighters and Super Bugs.

The former for mainly air to air.

The later for multi role and namely the maritime mission.

This leaves open the prospect of J-10C at some point if needed.

The key in my opinion is access to BVR munitions.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I would rather build a force of Eurofighters and Super Bugs.
> 
> The former for mainly air to air.
> 
> The later for multi role and namely the maritime mission.
> 
> This leaves open the prospect of J-10C at some point if needed.



Too expensive to buy and operate Typhoons and Superbugs.

Refurbished Typhoons would be affordable to buy but operations and munitions would be expensive.
Superbugs would be expensive to buy but cheaper to operate and munitions would be cheaper.
This would leave no money for J-10CE at least till latter part of this decade.

I would rather BAF got refurbished Typhoons and J-10CEs this decade. 16 Typhoons would be fine unless MAF buys even more fighters which is unlikely due to their small defence budget.
With J-10CE build up a force of at least 3-4(48-64 planes) squadrons by the end of the decade.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Too expensive to buy and operate Typhoons and Superbugs.
> 
> Refurbished Typhoons would be affordable to buy but operations and munitions would be expensive.
> Superbugs would be expensive to buy but cheaper to operate and munitions would be cheaper.
> This would leave no money for J-10CE at least till latter part of this decade.
> 
> I would rather BAF got refurbished Typhoons and J-10CEs this decade. 16 Typhoons would be fine unless MAF buys even more fighters which is unlikely due to their small defence budget.
> With J-10CE build up a force of at least 3-4(48-64 planes) squadrons by the end of the decade.



I would be ok with that however, BAF supposedly had a requirement for a maritime strike fighter with two engines.

Where does that fit in with a Eurofighter/J-10 combo?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I would be ok with that however, BAF supposedly had a requirement for a maritime strike fighter with two engines.
> 
> Where does that fit in with a Eurofighter/J-10 combo?



That is right and the SU-30SM was supposed to fill that requirement.

Eurofighter has two engines and can fly over oceans as it regularly does that for the UK and so that should suffice.

Italian Marte-ER anti-ship missile with range in excess of 100km is cleared for Typhoon use.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> That is right and the SU-30SM was supposed to fill that requirement.
> 
> Eurofighter has two engines and can fly over oceans as it regularly does that for the UK and so that should suffice.
> 
> Italian Marte-ER anti-ship missile with range in excess of 100km is cleared for Typhoon use.



Can an upgraded Tranche 1 perform the maritime mission?

I would think a Superbug is more suited for that.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Can an upgraded Tranche 1 perform the maritime mission?
> 
> I would think a Superbug is more suited for that.



Yes of course a Superbug would be better but Eurofighters can navigate over water and fire anti-ship missiles like Marte-ER.That is all you need for BD's requirements.

You can create a dedicated squadron of Eurofighters if BN really pushes for this as this will bring commonality with the Eurofighters of the BAF.

It will be an expensive waste of resources to buy the Superbug for little extra gain for a cash-strapped country like BD. Think of all that separate infrastructure and training that will be required.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Can an upgraded Tranche 1 perform the maritime mission?
> 
> I would think a Superbug is more suited for that.


EFT was made with maritime mission also in mind. Remember it was to go against the ruskies and prevent any potential blockade of UK. I think it serves BD purpose unless those with greater knowledge can shed more light on the issue.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Yes of course a Superbug would be better but Eurofighters can navigate over water and fire anti-ship missiles like Marte-ER.That is all you need for BD's requirements.
> 
> You can create a dedicated squadron of Eurofighters if BN really pushes for this as this will bring commonality with the Eurofighters of the BAF.
> 
> It will be an expensive waste of resources to buy the Superbug for little extra gain for a cash-strapped country like BD. Think of all that separate infrastructure and training that will be required.



The fact that we are even having this conversation is progress.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> The fact that we are even having this conversation is progress.




It has already been announced in Parliament that BN will get a dedicated maritime strike squadron but this seems to have fallen off the radar for now as the BAF seems to be rightly getting priority with the 16 fighters that are about to be purchased this fiscal.

BD military has huge plans but fiscal constraints are slowing the rate as which it can get hold of these big ticket items.


As the economy gets exponentially larger expect larger and larger quantities of sophisticated weapons to be brought.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> I would rather build a force of Eurofighters and Super Bugs.
> 
> The former for mainly air to air.
> 
> The later for multi role and namely the maritime mission.
> 
> This leaves open the prospect of J-10C at some point if needed.
> 
> The key in my opinion is access to BVR munitions.





UKBengali said:


> Too expensive to buy and operate Typhoons and Superbugs.
> 
> Refurbished Typhoons would be affordable to buy but operations and munitions would be expensive.
> Superbugs would be expensive to buy but cheaper to operate and munitions would be cheaper.
> This would leave no money for J-10CE at least till latter part of this decade.
> 
> I would rather BAF got refurbished Typhoons and J-10CEs this decade. 16 Typhoons would be fine unless MAF buys even more fighters which is unlikely due to their small defence budget.
> With J-10CE build up a force of at least 3-4(48-64 planes) squadrons by the end of the decade.


You should stick to one platform type. You need a workhorse that just gets the job done, no need to split across roles for the sake of different platforms when any one of the above should do the job well on its own. This is inefficient.

Just focus on accruing savings across logistics and maintenance, and then using that money on better (or more) munitions or maybe R&D.

Seriously, Poland is a good example of how to approach modernization for the future. Basically, start with 3~4 squadrons of *one *great multi-mission platform.

Now, if upfront and operating costs are a concern, then pursue the Gripen E/F or F-16 Block-70/72 (~$150 m), and forget about everything else, just build numbers on an affordable platform. Saab offers great offsets and ToT too, by the way.

Alternatively, if a higher end twin-engine is the goal, then look at only 32~36 F/A-18E/F Super Hornets (with an option for 16~18 more for later).

Stick to that fleet, and put the savings of operating one platform towards saving for the future, maybe a next-generation fighter. So, once the TF-X, KF-X, Airbus FCAS, British Tempest come alive, acquire 1 squadron of those for deep-strike.

Basically, copy what Poland did by starting with the F-16s first, and then moving onto the F-35 later. If I was the BAF, I'd start with the Gripen E/F first, and then move towards any one of the future FGFAs.

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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> You should stick to one platform type. You need a workhorse that just gets the job done, no need to split across roles for the sake of different platforms when any one of the above should do the job well on its own. This is inefficient.
> 
> Just focus on accruing savings across logistics and maintenance, and then using that money on better (or more) munitions or maybe R&D.
> 
> Seriously, Poland is a good example of how to approach modernization for the future. Basically, start with 3~4 squadrons of *one *great multi-mission platform.
> 
> Now, if upfront and operating costs are a concern, then pursue the Gripen E/F or F-16 Block-70/72 (~$150 m), and forget about everything else, just build numbers on an affordable platform. Saab offers great offsets and ToT too, by the way.
> 
> Alternatively, if a higher end twin-engine is the goal, then look at only 32~36 F/A-18E/F Super Hornets (with an option for 16~18 more for later).
> 
> Stick to that fleet, and put the savings of operating one platform towards saving, maybe a next-generation fighter. So, once the TF-X, KF-X, Airbus FCAS, British Tempest come alive, acquire 1 squadron of those for deep-strike.
> 
> Basically, copy what Poland did by starting with the F-16s first, and then moving onto the F-35 later. If I was the BAF, I'd start with the Gripen E/F first, and then move towards any one of the future FGFAs.



Yup.

Agreed but as often happens, politics play a predominant role in procurement decisions.

Gripen is out.

Looks like it’s a race between Eurofighter, Superbug, Viper, J-10, MiG-35 and Su-30.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Yup.
> 
> Agreed but as often happens, politics play a predominant role in procurement decisions.
> 
> Gripen is out.
> 
> Looks like it’s a race between Eurofighter, Superbug, Viper, J-10, MiG-35 and Su-30.



Absolutely no way any Russian fighters will be brought.

Look at how much BD is prepared to pay for Apache to see that Russia is being edged out of major BD weapons systems procurements from now.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Absolutely no way any Russian fighters will be brought.
> 
> Look at how much BD is prepared to pay for Apache to see that Russia is being edged out of major BD weapons systems procurements from now.



I hope you are right.

Although until the planes are on the ground in Bangladesh anything is possible.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I hope you are right.
> 
> Although until the planes are on the ground in Bangladesh anything is possible.



Apache was chosen by BAF and not BA.
It will join the air-force and not the army.
BAF is not as imbecilic as some people think.


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## Arthur

There won't be multiple platforms in service with BAF. Not untill they go for the 5'th generation which is still at least 15 years away for BAF.

So whatever the platform is be it typhoons, Super Hornet or Vipers it will be our backbone for the foreseeable future.

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## Imran Khan

Common man its been 20 years now

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Apache was chosen by BAF and not BA.
> It will join the air-force and not the army.
> BAF is not as imbecilic as some people think.



Come on bro. BAF blew the Imbecilometer so hard, @vishwambhar mistook it for an atomic bomb going off in Burma.

BAF's do-nothing approach has done irreparable damage to its rank and file. The damage is so deep, even Wing Commanders are flying Yaks to compensate.

Mere 16 MRCAs being inducted next year (optimistic) cannot undo the damage of the last 20 years even if they procure F-22 Raptors.

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## BanglarBagh

Al-Ansar said:


> Come on bro. BAF blew the Imbecilometer so hard, @vishwambhar mistook it for an atomic bomb going off in Burma.
> 
> BAF's do-nothing approach has done irreparable damage to its rank and file. The damage is so deep, even Wing Commanders are flying Yaks to compensate.
> 
> Mere 16 MRCAs being inducted next year (optimistic) cannot undo the damage of the last 20 years even if they procure F-22 Raptors.



Well you are absolutely right! The damage done is quite huge. As a result, BAF now is severely ill equipped and outdated.
However, counting past damages is not the way forward. BAF has to be resolute to set up an iron will doctrine and to plan a most efficient modernization. IMO the recent shopping list revealed by the Minister is the baby steps toward that goal although consistency and certainty are alien words when BAF is concerned.
All of us ordinary citizens can only hope that there is a better future for BAF.....

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## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> I would rather build a force of Eurofighters and Super Bugs.
> 
> The former for mainly air to air.
> 
> The later for multi role and namely the maritime mission.
> 
> This leaves open the prospect of J-10C at some point if needed.
> 
> The key in my opinion is access to BVR munitions.



In my opinion, it should be hornets, Gripens and J-10C in large number.


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## Avicenna

Bengal71 said:


> In my opinion, it should be hornets, Gripens and J-10C in large number.



LOL.

You wanna pay for all that?

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## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> You wanna pay for all that?



We can pay for it, no issues. You underestimate BD too much. BD has the financial capacity to even sustain 10 billion defence budget per year; these things can be purchased on loan and deferred payment. It's just that our politicians never ventured into massive defence expenditure, so kanjoosi in defence procurement is there.


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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Come on bro. BAF blew the Imbecilometer so hard, @vishwambhar mistook it for an atomic bomb going off in Burma.
> 
> BAF's do-nothing approach has done irreparable damage to its rank and file. The damage is so deep, even Wing Commanders are flying Yaks to compensate.
> 
> Mere 16 MRCAs being inducted next year (optimistic) cannot undo the damage of the last 20 years even if they procure F-22 Raptors.




Yes BAF were a bunch of complete morons last decade but let us have hope for this decade as they selected the US AH-64E over other offerings so far. 

16 MRCAs if they are any of the Western types speculated here on pdf would give BAF an upper hand over the MAF and so would go a long way to undo the pathetic current state of the BAF.

The three imbecilic things they did last decade were:

1. Blew 150 million US dollars in 2011 buying those 16 F-7BGI when they should have just approached Russia and added an extra 8 Mig-29s to make a full squadron of 16.

2. Brought far too many trainers like the 16 Yak-130s and the 9 K-8Ws and also the order for 23 K-8Ws back in 2018. Half this number should have been sufficient with the rest of the money maybe poured into upgrading the 16 Mig-29s into SMT standard(newer radar, avionics and R77 BVRAAMs).

3. Released the MRCA tender for 8+4 fighters in 2017 that only Russia could meet.

If they just used some common sense and not forgotten that the whole point of their existence is to best defend the airspace of BD using whatever resources the government could have provided, then BAF would have had 16 Mig-29SMTs with R77 missiles at the time of the Rohingya crisis of 2017. This may have just been enough for BD to put on a show of force and stopped Myanmar from carrying out it's campaign of rape, murder and ethnic cleansing on the Rohingya.

Using excuses like they do not have enough trained pilots is pathetic as the whole point of trained pilots is that they have actual fighter aircraft to fly in. Better to build up both the trainer and fighter force simultaneously like all other airforces do rather than think they know better than everyone else.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Yes BAF were a bunch of complete morons last decade but let us have hope for this decade as they selected the US AH-64E over other offerings so far.
> 
> 16 MRCAs if they are any of the Western types speculated here on pdf would give BAF an upper hand over the MAF and so would go a long way to undo the pathetic current state of the BAF.
> 
> The three imbecilic things they did last decade were:
> 
> 1. Blew 150 million US dollars in 2011 buying those 16 F-7BGI when they should have just approached Russia and added an extra 8 Mig-29s to make a full squadron of 16.
> 
> 2. Brought far too many trainers like the 16 Yak-130s and the 9 K-8Ws and also the order for 23 K-8Ws back in 2018. Half this number should have been sufficient with the rest of the money maybe poured into upgrading the 16 Mig-29s into SMT standard(newer radar, avionics and R77 BVRAAMs).
> 
> 3. Released the MRCA tender for 8+4 fighters in 2017 that only Russia could meet.
> 
> If they just used some common sense and not forgotten that the whole point of their existence is to best defend the airspace of BD using whatever resources the government could have provided, then BAF would have had 16 Mig-29SMTs with R77 missiles at the time of the Rohingya crisis of 2017. This may have just been enough for BD to put on a show of force and stopped Myanmar from carrying out it's campaign of rape, murder and ethnic cleansing on the Rohingya.
> 
> Using excuses like they do not have enough trained pilots is pathetic as the whole point of trained pilots is that they have actual fighter aircraft to fly in. Better to build up both the trainer and fighter force simultaneously like all other airforces do rather than think they know better than everyone else.


Spot on. While I am happy that we have shortlisted Apaches, I do not like BAF being allowed to remain occupied by helicopters. BAF has no business operating attack helicopters as these should be owned by infantry and armoured divisions.

Even Mi-17s do not belong to BAF. BAF should be conpletely focused on aerial warfare and prioritise procuring MRCAs, UCAVs an missiles (MR/LR SAMs and ballistic).

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Spot on. While I am happy that we have shortlisted Apaches, I do not like BAF being allowed to remain occupied by helicopters. BAF has business operating attack helicopters as these should be owned by Infantry and armoured divisions.
> 
> Even Mi-17s do not belong to BAF. BAF should be conpletely focused on aerial warfare and prioritise procuring MRCAs, UCAVs an missiles (MR/LR SAMs and ballistic).




Yes and I am surprised at this as Apaches should go to BA. Attack helicopters are there to support infantry and blunt armoured attacks and so are definitely the area of an army.

Main thing is that they are in the process of being brought and can always be given to BA later.

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## Arthur

Al-Ansar said:


> Spot on. While I am happy that we have shortlisted Apaches, I do not like BAF being allowed to remain occupied by helicopters. BAF has no business operating attack helicopters as these should be owned by infantry and armoured divisions.
> 
> Even Mi-17s do not belong to BAF. BAF should be conpletely focused on aerial warfare and prioritise procuring MRCAs, UCAVs an missiles (MR/LR SAMs and ballistic).





UKBengali said:


> Yes and I am surprised at this as Apaches should go to BA. Attack helicopters are there to support infantry and blunt armoured attacks and so are definitely the area of an army.
> 
> Main thing is that they are in the process of being brought and can always be given to BA later.


Well, your points would stand correct if BD was USA, UK or even Pak or India. 

You see such low speed & low altitude aircraft needs a air cover from high end platforms to ensure survivality. 

When you deploy such low altitude-low speed platforms like an attack helicopter you have to ensure at least a limited Air Superiority over the area of operations where no enemy AD & aircraft can threat those helis physically.

Now do you think BD armed forces are strong enough to ensure air denial let alone superiority?!!!!

US/ UK armies enjoy guarantee of such air superiority from their AF while PAF/ IAF guarantees air denial to their land forces. Now think around that point & you will get the answer why attack helis are going to BAF.

In BD's ground reality, attack helis should go to the force that can provide High altitude-Long range air cover & a partial SEAD at least for the few hours that those helis will be spending in the frontline.

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> Well, your points would stand correct if BD was USA, UK or even Pak or India.
> 
> You see such low speed & low altitude aircraft needs a air cover from high end platforms to ensure survivality.
> 
> When you deploy such low altitude-low speed platforms like an attack helicopter you have to ensure at least a limited Air Superiority over the area of operations where no enemy AD & aircraft can threat those helis physically.
> 
> Now do you think BD armed forces are strong enough to ensure air denial let alone superiority?!!!!
> 
> US/ UK armies enjoy guarantee of such air superiority from their AF while PAF/ IAF guarantees air denial to their land forces. Now think around that point & you will get the answer why attack helis are going to BAF.
> 
> In BD's ground reality, attack helis should go to the force that can provide High altitude-Long range air cover & a partial SEAD at least for the few hours that those helis will be spending in the frontline.




I know what you mean but why cannot BA and BAF co-ordinate, so when required BAF provides air-cover for the Apaches for when they need it?

Seems really bizarre for BAF to be operating an attack helicopter designed to be supporting BA.

Anyway who cares as all that counts is that BAF has selected the Apache and BD government has publicly said that the deals for all these multi-billion US dollar hardware for BAF will be done this fiscal ending on June 30.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I know what you mean but why cannot BA and BAF co-ordinate, so when required BAF provides air-cover for the Apaches for when they need it?
> 
> Seems really bizarre for BAF to be operating an attack helicopter designed to be supporting BA.
> 
> Anyway who cares as all that counts is that BAF has selected the Apache and BD government has publicly said that the deals for all these multi-billion US dollar hardware for BAF will be done this fiscal ending on June 30.



Because in real life coordination is alot more involved and inefficient than it sounds theoretically.

It may be that BAF is using the Apaches as an instrument to further their own tactical goals in any conflict and this is better served having them completely in their jurisdiction and control.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Because in real life coordination is alot more involved and inefficient than it sounds theoretically.
> 
> It may be that BAF is using the Apaches as an instrument to further their own tactical goals in any conflict and this is better served having them completely in their jurisdiction and control.




Like I say all that matters is that these sophisticated weapons are finally going to be coming into BD - whether BAF, BA or BN is not really important as long as they are properly integrated into the military and are used effectively.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Because in real life coordination is alot more involved and inefficient than it sounds theoretically.
> 
> It may be that BAF is using the Apaches as an instrument to further their own tactical goals in any conflict and this is better served having them completely in their jurisdiction and control.


BA can always order their own attack helis like what they did about air defense system.

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

Second C-130J is ready for testing.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> EF(with AESA and Meteor) is good but 16 cannot handle over 200 IAF SU-30MKIs/Mig-29s and Mirage 2000s coming at it, let alone when paired with 12-18 Rafales.


They don’t station 200 of those along Bangladesh neither can they afford to deploy all asset against us

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> They don’t station 200 of those along Bangladesh neither can they afford to deploy all asset against us




In a war situation they will bring this amount in.

Remember that India has around 400 4th generation fighter aircraft.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> In a war situation they will bring this amount in.
> 
> Remember that India has around 400 4th generation fighter aircraft.


Certainly not, that’s not how modern wars are fought. Even US the worlds largest airforce do not take half their inventory to any campaign.

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Certainly not, that’s not how modern wars are fought. Even US the worlds largest airforce do not take half their inventory to any campaign.



OK. Say if there was a war between India and Pakistan, how many of India's 4th generation fighters would be deployed against Pakistan?
I would say they would leave at most 100 against China and use the rest against Pakistan.

As an example in Gulf War 1, US deployed 1800 combat aircraft against Iraq. At the time they had around 5000 combat aircraft in total and so 36% of their total force - they would have brought more but these were not required.

Are you seriously saying that India would not deploy enough aircraft against BD to overwhelm 16 EFs(even though with AESA/Meteor)?


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> OK. Say if there was a war between India and Pakistan, how many of India's 4th generation fighters would be deployed against Pakistan?
> I would say they would leave at most 100 against China and use the rest against Pakistan.
> 
> As an example in Gulf War 1, US deployed 1800 combat aircraft against Iraq. At the time they had around 5000 combat aircraft in total and so 36% of their total force - they would have brought some more but these were not required.
> 
> Are you seriously saying that India would not deploy enough aircraft against BD to overwhelm 16 EFs(even though with AESA/Meteor)?



I can't imagine a scenario in which India and Bangladesh would be in armed conflict.

However, if such a scenario were to take place, you can be sure India would not leave its Western theater unguarded.

**All the more reason for Bangladesh and Pakistan to become closer**

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I can't imagine a scenario in which India and Bangladesh would be in armed conflict.
> 
> However, if such a scenario were to take place, you can be sure India would not leave its Western theater unguarded.



200 against BD leaves 200 against Pakistan.

The 200 against BD can also be used against China if required.

These numbers were theoretical and they would only need say 12-18 Rafales and 100 SU-30MKIs/Mig-29s/Mirage 2000s to overwhelm BAF with 16 Eurofighters and 8 unmodernised Mig-29s.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> 200 against BD leaves 200 against Pakistan.
> 
> The 200 against BD can also be used against China if required.
> 
> These numbers were theoretical and they would only need say 12-18 Rafales and 100 SU-30MKIs/Mig-29s/Mirage 2000s to overwhelm BAF with 16 Eurofighters and 8 unmodernised Mig-29s.



You are correct of course.

BAF needs way more than 16 4+ gen fighters.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> You are correct of course.
> 
> BAF needs way more than 16 4+ gen fighters.




What this discussion proves is that BD has the financial ability to neutralise IAF.

Say BAF had 2 squadrons of Euro-fighters and 4 squadrons of J-10CE, that would be ample firepower to handle whatever India dare use against BD.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> What this discussion proves is that BD has the financial ability to neutralise IAF.
> 
> Say BAF had 2 squadrons of Euro-fighters and 4 squadrons of J-10CE, that would be ample firepower to handle whatever India dare use against BD.



I think Bangladesh is more capable financially clearly.

But we are still a poor country.

And to even think about matching India is foolish.

But we can certainly attain a capability to make India think twice.

AND ESPECIALLY SO if we are closer with Pakistan in this regard.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I think Bangladesh is more capable financially clearly.
> 
> But we are still a poor country.
> 
> And to even think about matching India is foolish.
> 
> But we can certainly attain a capability to make India think twice.
> 
> AND ESPECIALLY SO if we are closer with Pakistan in this regard.




No need to match India, BAF only needs enough fighters to take on whatever India dare use against BD.
That is what I meant by "neutralising" India.

I think 100 Eurofighters/J-10CEs are enough. BD has no real need to become closer to Pakistan because the simple reason that a hostile Pakistan/China exists means that at least 2/3rds of IAF cannot be used against BD in any conflict.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> OK. Say if there was a war between India and Pakistan, how many of India's 4th generation fighters would be deployed against Pakistan?
> I would say they would leave at most 100 against China and use the rest against Pakistan.
> 
> As an example in Gulf War 1, US deployed 1800 combat aircraft against Iraq. At the time they had around 5000 combat aircraft in total and so 36% of their total force - they would have brought more but these were not required.
> 
> Are you seriously saying that India would not deploy enough aircraft against BD to overwhelm 16 EFs(even though with AESA/Meteor)?


Eh no, India would ofc use all its strength possible to overwhelm bd’s strength but doing so will result in a long drawn out conflict. Not the short, decisive battles that India can actually sustain, like the ones from last year. No country wants to go all out nowadays when they have so much to lose on economic terms



UKBengali said:


> What this discussion proves is that BD has the financial ability to neutralise IAF.
> 
> Say BAF had 2 squadrons of Euro-fighters and 4 squadrons of J-10CE, that would be ample firepower to handle whatever India dare use against BD.


Bangladesh is not getting j10 that’s for sure. We would have had it already after maritime strike platform got delayed


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh is not getting j10 that’s for sure. We would have had it already after maritime strike platform got delayed



How you know about J-10 as BAF only sees IAF as real threat?

BAF will end up with Western/Chinese mix for strategic reasons in my opinion.


J-10CE with AESA radar and PL-15 will be comparable to Rafale with Meteor at much lesser cost to buy the planes and missiles. Over the lifetime it may not be all that much cheaper due to more frequent replacement of the Chinese WS-10B engine but it is good enough to handle any plane in IAF inventory and rock solid supplier in China.


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## Destranator

Just roll the dice and go full Western for now. Can not get worse than the current state of affairs where Burma has a superior air force.
BAF can induct non-Western platforms later on if the West stop supplying.


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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Just roll the dice and go full Western for now. Can not get worse than the current state of affairs where Burma has a superior air force.
> BAF can induct non-Western platform later if Western stop.



BD can buy both Western and Chinese in small numbers simultaneously.
Any fighter aircraft purchases will be spread out over many years and this can be brought on credit.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> BD can buy both Western and Chinese in small numbers simultaneously.
> Any fighter aircraft purchases will be spread out over many years and this can be brought on credit.



I really want BAF to move on from unproven, substandard, stolen-IP trash cans and embrace quality. The mindset shift is important both technologically and culturally.
Aligning with the West will help a great deal in transforming Bangladeshi culture towards innovation, knowledge, openness and progress and erode away at third world tendencies like bickering, superstitiousness, dishonesty 
and intolerance. Building strategic rapport with the West by adopting Western military platforms is a good way to start building confidence which will lead to collaboration in other areas.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> I really want BAF to move on from unproven, substandard, stolen-IP trash cans and embrace quality. The mindset shift is important both technologically and culturally.
> Aligning with the West will help a great deal in transforming Bangladeshi culture towards innovation, knowledge, openness and progress and erode away at third world tendencies like bickering, superstitiousness, dishonesty
> and intolerance. Building strategic rapport with the West by adopting Western military platforms is a good way to start building confidence which will lead to collaboration in other areas.




Do you how technologically and economically powerful China will be by 2030?

I repeat that BD needs both Western and Chinese arms for strategic reasons.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Do you how technologically and economically powerful China will be by 2030?
> 
> I repeat that BD needs both Western and Chinese arms for strategic reasons.


I am not advocating against increased overall cooperation with China but that does not have to come at the cost of continuing to be a junkyard for their knock-offs.

In areas other than technological and economic cooperation, China has little to offer.
It is still a third world country like us with no regard for societal freedom, ethics and health & safety.
All out Western collaboration is imperative if we are to transform towards becoming an advanced society. Exaggerated BBS stats alone will not take us there.


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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> I am not advocating against increased overall cooperation with China but that does not have to come at the cost of continuing to be a junkyard for their knock-offs.
> 
> In areas other than technological and economic cooperation, China has little to offer.
> It is still a third world country like us with no regard for societal freedom, ethics and health & safety.
> All out Western collaboration is imperative if we are to transform towards becoming an advanced society. Exaggerated BBS stats alone will not take us there.




Got any actual evidence that BBS stats are exaggerated?


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Got any actual evidence that BBS stats are exaggerated?



Better to continue discussing this in the relevant thread.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bang...evelopment-updates-discussions.418207/page-72


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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Better to continue discussing this in the relevant thread.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bang...evelopment-updates-discussions.418207/page-72




Please let us not bring this up in this thread then.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Please let us not bring this up in this thread then.


You need to focus on the broader point I made in that post about the need for greater collaboration with the West starting with military procurement.


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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> You need to focus on the broader point I made in that post about the need for greater collaboration with the West starting with military procurement.




Which is happening.
BAF has selected AH-64E for the attack helicopter procurement and will almost certainly go with West for the 16 MRCA(Eurofighter, F-16 or Superhornets). Seems BD is certainly going Western these days.
BD needs to have foot in both camps( West and China) till it can get it’s arms from Turkey and also start making arms itself. This will take 2-3 decades still.
Being fully dependent on West is folly especially as there is US containment of China, with India selected as one of the main sheriffs in Asia by US.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> How you know about J-10 as BAF only sees IAF as real threat?
> 
> BAF will end up with Western/Chinese mix for strategic reasons in my opinion.
> 
> 
> J-10CE with AESA radar and PL-15 will be comparable to Rafale with Meteor at much lesser cost to buy the planes and missiles. Over the lifetime it may not be all that much cheaper due to more frequent replacement of the Chinese WS-10B engine but it is good enough to handle any plane in IAF inventory and rock solid supplier in China.


Do you not remember he credit offer? Why did bd decide to not go with it? The same with frigate program, it’s stalled for a reason. China is not a reliable partner. If they couldn’t reliably support Pakistan in 71 then why would it support Bangladesh against India, flawed philosophy. 
Anyways j10 was hinted on recently too but nothing about j10 from people actually in the airforce. Most probably end up getting surplus hornets for maritime role and euro fighter fleet will be expanded. Like I said before first squadron will be preowned given new batch production doesn’t end until 2024 for Kuwait... could see tranche 3 from post 2024

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Do you not remember he credit offer? Why did bd decide to not go with it? The same with frigate program, it’s stalled for a reason. China is not a reliable partner. If they couldn’t reliably support Pakistan in 71 then why would it support Bangladesh against India, flawed philosophy.
> Anyways j10 was hinted on recently too but nothing about j10 from people actually in the airforce. Most probably end up getting surplus hornets for maritime role and euro fighter fleet will be expanded. Like I said before first squadron will be preowned given new batch production doesn’t end until 2024 for Kuwait... could see tranche 3 from post 2024



That was straight after Rohingya crisis and the version offered was J-10B rather than J-10CE which was unveiled last year.
Not going to war for Pakistan in 1971 is not the same as supplying BD in times of war with India.
J-10CE has a very good chance of being selected and there is no evidence that China is out of the frigate programme.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> That was straight after Rohingya crisis and the version offered was J-10B rather than J-10CE which was unveiled last year.
> Not going to war for Pakistan in 1971 is not the same as supplying BD in times of war with India.
> J-10CE has a very good chance of being selected and there is no evidence that China is out of the frigate programme.


Well as for my source, j10 isn’t in the papers anymore and neither are the Chinese for the frigate program, work was supposed to begin this January and no deal has been concluded with them after they demanded majority ownership of CDDL, their offer later was also rejected


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Well as for my source, j10 isn’t in the papers anymore and neither are the Chinese for the frigate program, work was supposed to begin this January and no deal has been concluded with them after they demanded majority ownership of CDDL, their offer later was also rejected



Let us wait and see as for strategic reasons most of BD fighters and the next-gen frigates need to come from a reliable supplier(against India) like China.

BD can play hardball with the frigate programme as whoever wins gets a multi-billion dollar sale of subsystems and missiles.

BAF initially wanted the Turkish T-129 but backed out as the USA would not allow engine sale like what happened with Pakistan. You can see that BD is clearly thinking very strategically there.

Arms imports into BD must see that the only real threat to BD sovereignty is India and the West can never be reliable against them.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Let us wait and see as for strategic reasons most of BD fighters and the next-gen frigates need to come from a reliable supplier(against India) like China.
> 
> BD can play hardball with the frigate programme as whoever wins gets a multi-billion dollar sale of subsystems and missiles.
> 
> BAF initially wanted the Turkish T-129 but backed out as the USA would not allow engine sale like what happened with Pakistan. You can see that BD is clearly thinking very strategically there.
> 
> Arms imports into BD must see that the only real threat to BD sovereignty is India and the West can never be reliable against them.


I’m a bit confused about the French article that claims to have sold naval technology license to Bangladesh... is this related to frigate program? God knows. 2.6 billion euros is a lot of dough

as long as bd is not the aggressor, we will have western support against India


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> I’m a bit confused about the French article that claims to have sold naval technology license to Bangladesh... is this related to frigate program? God knows. 2.6 billion euros is a lot of dough
> 
> as long as bd is not the aggressor, we will have western support against India



Why put all BD eggs in the Western basket? You buy a new platform you are tied to a supplier for 30 years.

Western/Chinese mix is the way to go and BD is rich enough to support systems from both sources over the next 1-2 decades while the Turks build up their arms industry and BD also starts manufacturing some more of it's own weapons.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> That was straight after Rohingya crisis and the version offered was J-10B rather than J-10CE which was unveiled last year.
> Not going to war for Pakistan in 1971 is not the same as supplying BD in times of war with India.
> J-10CE has a very good chance of being selected and there is no evidence that China is out of the frigate programme.



Chinas trade with india is larger than BD. It is not conceivable that china will supply BD with anything against India at a time of war and risk an economic backlash.

We must absolutely need to get out of the mindset that there is any one we can rely on but ourselves. BD will be sanctioned in any conflict, we need to develop own capacity and take descision on the basis of whatever weapons is in our inventory.

China is neither a friend nor enemy.... we are fair weather business partners to each other...nothing more. China will not intervene nor assist BD in a conflict with India just as BD will not intervene or assist China in a conflict with india.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Chinas trade with india is larger than BD. It is not conceivable that china will supply BD with anything against India at a time of war and risk an economic backlash.
> 
> We must absolutely need to get out of the mindset that there is any one we can rely on but ourselves. BD will be sanctioned in any conflict, we need to develop own capacity and take descision on the basis of whatever weapons is in our inventory.
> 
> China is neither a friend nor enemy.... we are fair weather business partners to each other...nothing more. China will not intervene nor assist BD in a conflict with India just as BD will not intervene or assist China in a conflict with india.




I cannot agree with this statement at all.

During the 2001 standoff with India, China shipped in fighter aircraft among many other weapons to assist Pakistan.
Even though China-India trade was a lot lower, China did not care as it values strategic factors over mere economics.

We have to admit that BD is less important strategically to China as it does not share a border but it is nonetheless important as it is a large Muslim country with a good economy that will help keep India boxed into S Asia.

If China can use Pakistan and BD to box in India, that is one big irritant out of the way as they have USA, Japan, Korea et al to deal with in East Asia.

Let us look at the trade figures anyway. Last year China exported 74 billion US dollars to India which is less than 2% of Chinese exports.
India anyhow would just be hurting itself to boycott Chinese products as it would have to source elsewhere at much higher prices. Indian economy is weak due to multi-ethnic nature of country and Hinduvta mismanagement anyway and they can ill afford to stop importing cheap Chinese goods.
Economically India has no leverage over China.

As for developing own capacity that may be 50 years away. Even Turkey will not be ready for at least another generation as it would have great difficulty in making competitive turbofans to power it's aircraft.

BD needs to focus on Western/Chinese mix and slowly increase the content of Turkish arms into it's military, while slowly building up it's own defence industry that could take 2 or more generations to become world-class. I am hopeful on this front as BD has decent electronics tech(Walton), just created an aerospace university and currently building it's first aircraft manufacturing plant.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Why put all BD eggs in the Western basket? You buy a new platform you are tied to a supplier for 30 years.
> 
> Western/Chinese mix is the way to go and BD is rich enough to support systems from both sources over the next 1-2 decades while the Turks build up their arms industry and BD also starts manufacturing some more of it's own weapons.


Imo bd should just look forward to 5th gen platforms which can be sourced from China. There’s no reason to get j10 again and clog up the system

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I cannot agree with this statement at all.
> 
> During the 2001 standoff with India, China shipped in fighter aircraft among many other weapons to assist Pakistan.
> Even though China-India trade was a lot lower, China did not care as it values strategic factors over mere economics.
> 
> We have to admit that BD is less important strategically to China as it does not share a border but it is nonetheless important as it is a large Muslim country with a good economy that will help keep India boxed into S Asia.
> 
> If China can use Pakistan and BD to box in India, that is one big irritant out of the way as they have USA, Japan, Korea et al to deal with in East Asia.
> 
> Let us look at the trade figures anyway. Last year China exported 74 billion US dollars to India which is less than 2% of Chinese exports.
> India anyhow would just be hurting itself to boycott Chinese products as it would have to source elsewhere at much higher prices. Indian economy is weak due to multi-ethnic nature of country and Hinduvta mismanagement anyway and they can ill afford to stop importing cheap Chinese goods.
> Economically India has no leverage over China.
> 
> As for developing own capacity that may be 50 years away. Even Turkey will not be ready for at least another generation as it would have great difficulty in making competitive turbofans to power it's aircraft.
> 
> BD needs to focus on Western/Chinese mix and slowly increase the content of Turkish arms into it's military, while slowly building up it's own defence industry that could take 2 or more generations to become world-class. I am hopeful on this front as BD has decent electronics tech(Walton), just created an aerospace university and currently building it's first aircraft manufacturing plant.



You have complete right to hold the opinion that you do.

If you wish to ignore chinese stance in the ongoing rohingya debacle, you have that choice.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> You have complete right to hold the opinion that you do.
> 
> If you wish to ignore chinese stance in the ongoing rohingya debacle, you have that choice.




Myanmar is a Chinese client state while India is an adversary who has ambitions to match Chinese power in Asia.



Michael Corleone said:


> Imo bd should just look forward to 5th gen platforms which can be sourced from China. There’s no reason to get j10 again and clog up the system




Yep it may be a little late to be buying brand new J-10CEs now.

It looks like the FC-31 will be ready for export by 2025 as that is when the domestic turbofan WS-19 will be ready, and so BD may be best just buying this plane as it will be better than anything that India has.


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## Avicenna

Bangladesh seems to want to have two different types.

MRCA and a maritime strike fighter.

Typhoon and Super Hornet anyone?

Makes some sense.

Bangladesh already has a relationship between Leonardo and Boeing.

Also Kuwait seems to be fielding the same combination.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2020-02-04/kuwait-prepares-typhoon-eis-2020

*Kuwait Prepares for Typhoon EIS in 2020*
by Jon Lake
- February 4, 2020




The first seven Kuwaiti Typhoon pilots graduated from their AMI (Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Italian Air Force) flying training courses on July 5 in a graduation ceremony held at Lecce/Galatina, home to the M346 equipped International Flying School/61° Stormo.
Final assembly of the first batch of Eurofighter Typhoons for Kuwait was formally launched in a ceremony at Turin-Caselle on October 15. The Italian final assembly line was bedecked with Kuwaiti and Italian flags for the closed event, with a backdrop provided by the fuselage of the first Kuwaiti two-seater (KT001) in an assembly jig, waiting for its tailfin to be fitted.

Leonardo said that the final assembly of the first five aircraft is now underway at the company’s Aircraft Division plant at Turin, while major components of further Kuwaiti aircraft are in production across the four partner nations. This will lead to aircraft deliveries from 2020 to 2023 and the Typhoon will enter Kuwait Air Force service in September 2020.

*The Kuwait Air Force is undertaking a major modernization and expansion of its fighter arm, replacing 39 F/A-18C/Ds with 28 F/A-18E/F Super Hornets and 28 Typhoons*, meaning that induction of the new aircraft will have to be accompanied by an influx of new personnel, including both pilots and groundcrew, while the "Heritage Hornet" pilots and groundcrew will also need to undergo some retraining.

On October 14 it was announced that the first batch of Kuwaiti aircraft maintenance technicians for the Typhoon had started their academic training at the Accademia Aeronautica (the Italian air force academy) at Caserta near Naples.

The first seven Kuwaiti Typhoon pilots graduated from their AMI (Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Italian air force) flying training courses on July 5. The experienced Kuwaiti pilots had undertaken some training with the AMI's Eurofighter F-2000 operational conversion unit (the 4° Stormo’s 20° Gruppo) at Grosseto, but the graduation ceremony was held at Lecce/Galatina, home to the M346-equipped International Flying School/61° Stormo. The ceremony was attended by the Commander of the Kuwait Air Force, air vice-marshal Adnan Al-Fadhli, who revealed that the AMI training had included specific instruction in commanding Eurofighter Typhoon squadrons and had encompassed maneuvers in Oman and Egypt. These officers will now instruct other Kuwaiti pilots.

Kuwaiti interest in the Eurofighter Typhoon emerged in 2012 when a pair of Italian air force Eurofighter Typhoons from the 4° Stormo was deployed to Kuwait for evaluation. Despite very high ambient temperatures (53° C), and high winds (40 mph), the Typhoon reportedly impressed, and in April 2016 Kuwait signed an $8.7 billion contract with Finmeccanica (now Leonardo) for the supply of 28 aircraft (including six two-seat trainers), with an associated training, logistics, and operational support package, including equipment and a suite of training devices to allow the establishment of an operational conversion unit in Kuwait. The contract also included the construction of infrastructure at the Al-Salem Air Base and a three-year package of initial support services (with an option for a further five years). Kuwait thereby became the eighth customer for the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Kuwait’s 28 aircraft will be the most advanced examples of the Eurofighter Typhoon produced so far, and the first delivered to the new P3Eb standard. P3Eb provides a package of capabilities that build upon the Typhoon’s previous enhancement programs, using the functional content of P3Ea as what Leonardo calls “a starting technical development baseline.”

P3Eb will be delivered in two phases. The KAF entry into service (EIS) standard includes the new E-scan radar (with an EIS capability), AIM-120 AMRAAM (up to C7), and a Meteor initial training capability, ballistic bombs (Mk 82, 83, and 84), the Sniper laser designator pod with downlink, the P5 ACMI pod (providing real-time training for air-to-air gunnery, IRIS-T, and AMRAAM C7), and VOR navigation capability.

Later, the KAF Enhanced standard will be introduced. This will introduce an upgraded E-scan radar, Meteor full capability, GBU-31 JDAM precision-guided bombs, Enhanced Sniper (full-range capability), and a P5 ACMI Pod Enhancement. The radar used by Kuwaiti Typhoons is the Captor-E to Radar One Plus standard. This also forms the basis of the four-nation AESA radar development program, with the same hardware and the same performance. The Captor-E radar provides significantly more power than most competing systems. The advanced antenna repositioner gives the Typhoon radar a field of regard of 200 degrees.

Kuwait’s Typhoons will be the first to use the Lockheed Martin Sniper advanced targeting pod, following the award of a direct commercial sale contract for 18 Sniper advanced targeting pods, together with integration and logistics support on Sept. 28, 2016. The Sniper pod has recently been upgraded to include two-color laser spot tracking, short-wave infrared, and advanced non-traditional intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance modes.

The Kuwaiti aircraft will be capable of carrying the MBDA Storm Shadow cruise missile, providing a long-range stand-off capability that the U.S. will not provide with the Super Hornet due to missile technology control regime restrictions. Kuwait’s Typhoons are also due to be equipped to carry DRS-Cubic ACMI P5 combat training pods and will be fitted with an enhanced navigation aid with VOR.

A number of test aircraft have been used to clear the Kuwaiti P3Eb standard, with instrumented series production aircraft (ISPA4 ) and instrumented production aircraft flying with Mk 82 500-pound bombs, Mk 83 1,000-pound bombs, and Mk 84 2,000-pound bombs. On December 23, Leonardo began flying ISPA6 on radar, avionics, and weapons integration test sorties.

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## UKBengali

@Avicenna :

I fail to see what BD would gain by buying both Typhoon and Superhornet?

This would be two completely different logistics systems and there is little benefit to buying Superhornet over Eurofighter for maritime strike as we discussed a little while back. Eurofighter is equipped with sensors and weapons that make it a deadly maritime strike fighter and is better at air-to-air than Superhornet. 
Better for BAF to get 1 Eurofighter squadron and BN to have 1 dedicated Eurofighter squadron for maritime strike, but also able to switch over to air-superiority as well.

Now both Eurofighter(even refurbished with AESA radar) and Superhornets are expensive to buy and operate, with Superhornet a little cheaper. Can BD afford 2 squadrons of these Western fighters in the next 5 years? It can but forget about buying or investing in anything else in the meantime, and as @Indos mentioned BD needs to be pouring a lot of money into it's aerospace industry and buying expensive Western fighters will eat up all available funds.

I am inclined to go back to buying a squadron of refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s with AIM-120C7s, and investing properly in the nascent aerospace industry as this will one day, decades into the future, allow BAF to be fully or at least partially equipped with domestic fighter planes.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> @Avicenna :
> 
> I fail to see what BD would gain by buying both Typhoon and Superhornet?
> 
> This would be two completely different logistics systems and there is little benefit to buying Superhornet over Eurofighter for maritime strike as we discussed a little while back. Eurofighter is equipped with sensors and weapons that make it a deadly maritime strike fighter and is better at air-to-air than Superhornet.
> Better for BAF to get 1 Eurofighter squadron and BN to have 1 dedicated Eurofighter squadron for maritime strike, but also able to switch over to air-superiority as well.
> 
> Now both Eurofighter(even refurbished with AESA radar) and Superhornets are expensive to buy and operate, with Superhornet a little cheaper. Can BD afford 2 squadrons of these Western fighters in the next 5 years? It can but forget about buying or investing in anything else in the meantime, and as @Indos mentioned BD needs to be pouring a lot of money into it's aerospace industry and buying expensive Western fighters will eat up all available funds.
> 
> I am inclined to go back to buying a squadron of refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s with AIM-120C7s, and investing properly in the nascent aerospace industry as this will one day, decades into the future, allow BAF to be fully or at least partially equipped with domestic fighter planes.



I agree BD should progresively build up EFT numbers. I will do both jobs very well. 

In the mean time build up a missile force. 

With EFT i can not see it makes any further sense to buy anything else. If a really cheap figher option comes up then maybe to have a high low mix.

Otherwise we will just have to make do with the BGIs, assorted other F7s, yaks and migs in the inventory as the low mix.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> I agree BD should progresively build up EFT numbers. I will do both jobs very well.
> 
> In the mean time build up a missile force.
> 
> With EFT i can not see it makes any further sense to buy anything else. If a really cheap figher option comes up then maybe to have a high low mix.
> 
> Otherwise we will just have to make do with the BGIs, assorted other F7s, yaks and migs in the inventory as the low mix.



It is a toss up between cheap refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s with AIM-120C7, that will allow billions of US dollars to be poured into the BD aerospace industry this decade and more capable but expensive Eurofighters with Meteors, with BD then struggling to properly fund it's aerospace industry.

As for missile force, I think better to get the 300km range T-300A to supplement the 18 120km range T-300B MLRS systems that BA recently brought. These are cheaper and are readily available than a missile force.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> It is a toss up between cheap refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s with AIM-120C7, that will allow billions of US dollars to be poured into the BD aerospace industry this decade and more capable but expensive Eurofighters with Meteors, with BD then struggling to properly fund it's aerospace industry.
> 
> As for missile force, I think better to get the 300km range T-300A to supplement the 18 120km range T-300B MLRS systems that BA recently brought. These are cheaper and are readily available than a missile force.



BD can not invest billions on aerospace given all the other priorities.

An effective missile capacity is easier to achieve in that it is simpler and cheaper. 

A pure BD jet is something that is very long in the future although would love to see one.. ... a 1st stage trainer and then a second stage trainer is much more realistic in the short to medium term then we need to progress to then progress to a jf17 like joint venture.

The fact is finances has hindered BAF in the past and will do so in the future as unless and until we produce our own jets we can not effectively protect it.

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## Destranator

Bangladesh has zero need to manufacture fighter jets from scratch. Any such attempt would be a vanity project as the reality is Bangladesh is extremely unlikely to get into a pro-longed war with any country. There is nothing to fight so hard for that would require quick fighter replacements.
None of Bangladesh's disputes with neighbours can be resolved through conflict even if we emerge victorious. India would not start offering more water and market access and Burma would not suddenly get over their anti-Rohingya xenophobia (unless BAC is planning on indigenous production of tailored grey matter for injection into Burmese heads.)

Bangladesh's fighter fleet will therefore always be limited to 5-6 squadrons.
Besides, no country on the planet would be dying to buy aircraft from an elite underwear manufacturer. Look at China: even with all their industrial capabilities and supposedly 5th gen fighter production capabilities, they are struggling to sell J-10s and FC-1s despite the fact that there is a huge third world market which cannot afford/avail Western systems. Does anyone really believe that Bangladesh can ever break into this market?

The economies of scale is just not there for full-fledged design and manufacture.

We can simply stock up on imported spares to keep the fleet operational throughout the potential limited conflicts.

The key takeaway here is: no need to bundle in future "aerospace industry" pipedreams with MRCA procurement and delay things even further.
Select a high performance jet like Typhoon (1-2 squadrons) coupled with low maintenance, high availability aircraft like F-16/Gripen to compose the rest of the fleet and make them all integrated (data link, IFF, etc.) by 2030 and you are good to go.

We can top them off with Chinese fighters in the future if possibilities of Western sanctions arise.

Sorry to put things bluntly but we do need some serious reality check.



mb444 said:


> I agree BD should progresively build up EFT numbers. I will do both jobs very well.
> 
> In the mean time build up a missile force.
> 
> With EFT i can not see it makes any further sense to buy anything else. If a really cheap figher option comes up then maybe to have a high low mix.
> 
> Otherwise we will just have to make do with the BGIs, assorted other F7s, yaks and migs in the inventory as the low mix.



Exactly. Bangladesh's main threat is artillery and missile strikes by enemies. We need to establish a triad (land, sea, air) of cruise & ballistic missile strike capabilities which would gurantee a devastating secondary strike to the enemy. A triad can offer everlasting deterrence against conflict and tremendous leverage in diplomatic negotiations.

As for hi-lo mix: the truth is we cannot afford high performance jets in large numbers.
Besides, serviceability (i.e., the ability to keep aircraft in the air) will be a key determinant of success in war.

While India has a very formidable fleet, theIr servicability is limited as the fleet is largely made up of twin-engine, low MTBO, high downtime, hot Russian supermodels who demand a lot of expensive dinners and gifts in order to remain operational.

We therefore need a highly servicable aircraft model in numbers for the "low" segment. F-16 and Gripen fit the bill.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Bangladesh has zero need to manufacture fighter jets from scratch. Any such attempt would be a vanity project as the reality is Bangladesh is extremely unlikely to get into a pro-longed war with any country as there is nothing to fight that hard for which would require quick fighter replacements.
> None of Bangladesh's disputes with neighbours can be resolved through conflict even if we emerge victorious. India would not start offering more water and market access and Burma would not suddenly get rid over their anti-Rohingya xenophobia (unless BAC is planning on indigenous production of tailored grey matter for injection into Burmese heads.)
> 
> Bangladesh's fighter fleet will therefore always be limited to 5-6 squadrons.
> Besides, no country on the planet would be dying to buy aircraft from an elite underwear manufacturer. Look at China: even with all their industrial capabilities and supposedly 5th gen fighter production capabilities, they are struggling to sell J-10s and FC-1s despite the fact that there is a huge third world market which cannot afford/avail Western systems. Does anyone really believe that Bangladesh can ever break into this market?
> 
> The economies of scale is just not there for full-fledged design and manufacture.
> 
> We can simply stock up on imported spares to keep the fleet operational throughout the potential limited conflicts.
> 
> The key takeaway here is: no need to bundle in future "aerospace industry" pipedreams with MRCA procurement and delay things even further.
> Select a high performance jet like Typhoon (1-2 squadrons) coupled with low maintenance, high availability aircraft like F-16/Gripen to compose the rest of the fleet and make them all integrated (data link, IFF, etc.) by 2030 and you are good to go.
> 
> We can top them off with Chinese fighters in the future if possibilities of Western sanctions arise.
> 
> Sorry to put things bluntly but we do need some serious reality check.



China has not been able to sell J-10s or FC-31s as it cannot make the all critical engines for these planes, although it is now integrating WS-10Bs into production J-10Cs. Watch and see how they start selling their planes this decade as they can finally make all components of their jets and their tech inches closer to the West.

Reality check? BD is a country of 160 million and will peak at 180-200 million population and so could build up a beefy economy(CEBR predicts 876 billion US dollar economy in today's money by 2034) to support an advanced aerospace industry. If BD economy grows as predicted then there would be plenty of money to both develop and buy fighter jets in numbers. Exports would just be a bonus.
I am looking at investing some 2-3 billion US dollars in the BD aerospace industry this decade - easily affordable by swapping Eurofighters and Superhornet with refurbished F-16s.

It will take at least 2 generations before BD can field it's own fighter aircraft and so it needs to start pouring in serious money and brainpower for many many decades starting this decade. BD is not starting form scratch as the BAC has been in operation for the last decade and the design of the first jet trainer already started many years ago.

BD'shis need to start thinking big if they are to achieve big. Luckily the current BD government thinks big and that is why BD has achieved so much in the last 10 years.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Bangladesh has zero need to manufacture fighter jets from scratch. Any such attempt would be a vanity project as the reality is Bangladesh is extremely unlikely to get into a pro-longed war with any country. There is nothing to fight so hard for that would require quick fighter replacements.
> None of Bangladesh's disputes with neighbours can be resolved through conflict even if we emerge victorious. India would not start offering more water and market access and Burma would not suddenly get over their anti-Rohingya xenophobia (unless BAC is planning on indigenous production of tailored grey matter for injection into Burmese heads.)
> 
> Bangladesh's fighter fleet will therefore always be limited to 5-6 squadrons.
> Besides, no country on the planet would be dying to buy aircraft from an elite underwear manufacturer. Look at China: even with all their industrial capabilities and supposedly 5th gen fighter production capabilities, they are struggling to sell J-10s and FC-1s despite the fact that there is a huge third world market which cannot afford/avail Western systems. Does anyone really believe that Bangladesh can ever break into this market?
> 
> The economies of scale is just not there for full-fledged design and manufacture.
> 
> We can simply stock up on imported spares to keep the fleet operational throughout the potential limited conflicts.
> 
> The key takeaway here is: no need to bundle in future "aerospace industry" pipedreams with MRCA procurement and delay things even further.
> Select a high performance jet like Typhoon (1-2 squadrons) coupled with low maintenance, high availability aircraft like F-16/Gripen to compose the rest of the fleet and make them all integrated (data link, IFF, etc.) by 2030 and you are good to go.
> 
> We can top them off with Chinese fighters in the future if possibilities of Western sanctions arise.
> 
> Sorry to put things bluntly but we do need some serious reality check.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Bangladesh's main threat is artillery and missile strikes by enemies. We need to establish a triad (land, sea, air) of cruise & ballistic missile strike capabilities which would gurantee a devastating secondary strike to the enemy. A triad can offer everlasting deterrence against conflict and tremendous leverage in diplomatic negotiations.
> 
> As for hi-lo mix: the truth is we cannot afford high performance jets in large numbers.
> Besides, serviceability (i.e., the ability to keep aircraft in the air) will be a key determinant of success in war.
> 
> While India has a very formidable fleet, theIr servicability is limited as the fleet is largely made up of twin-engine, low MTBO, high downtime, hot Russian supermodels who demand a lot of expensive dinners and gifts in order to remain operational.
> 
> We therefore need a highly servicable aircraft model in numbers for the "low" segment. F-16 and Gripen fit the bill.


True for a country with Bangladesh’s max economic potential and size can’t alone develop a modern high performance fighter, that’s why it should join companies like TAS for the TFX program imo, EFT is an effort of half the Europe and comparatively the better fighter compared to rafale... gripen is good but it’s a light fighter... bd can go either direction but going for the former will require more collaboration than going for the latter.
The aerospace university member claimed to have a flying prototype of a jet trainer within the next 3 years so I don’t see anything as impossible. Conservative mindset will not lead you to greatness


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## Avicenna

An F/A-18F refueling an F/A-18E over the Bay of Bengal, 2007. US Navy photo courtesy Wikipedia.

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## Avicenna

Can we please get some ex-Luftwaffe Tranche 1 please?

33-38 are available.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Can we please get some ex-Luftwaffe Tranche 1 please?
> 
> 33-38 are available.



BAF: Sounds interesting. We will "consider" it.
Opportunity for a taxpayer-funded trip to Germany!
In the meanwhile, more Mi-17s for taxi service to UN! Woohoo!

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## bluesky

Michael Corleone said:


> Imo bd should just look forward to *5th gen platform*s which can be sourced from China. There’s no reason to get j10 again and clog up the system


"The J-10C model reportedly brings the capabilities roughly on par with *cutting-edge 4.5-generation* jet fighters. Perhaps the biggest improvement is the inclusion of an Active Electronically Scanned Array radar. *AESA radars* are the current gold standard in air warfare, boasting higher resolution, and greater discretion and resistance to jamming. China appears to have taken a lead over Russia in deploying AESA radars on its latest jet fighters".


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> "The J-10C model reportedly brings the capabilities roughly on par with *cutting-edge 4.5-generation* jet fighters. Perhaps the biggest improvement is the inclusion of an Active Electronically Scanned Array radar. *AESA radars* are the current gold standard in air warfare, boasting higher resolution, and greater discretion and resistance to jamming. China appears to have taken a lead over Russia in deploying AESA radars on its latest jet fighters".


Ah yes, impressive but I am not as convinced as before that it matches capabilities of anything like the f16 block 70... 60/62 at most

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## bluesky

Michael Corleone said:


> Ah yes, impressive but I am not as convinced as before that it matches capabilities of anything like the f16 block 70... 60/62 at most


This is why J-10C is called MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) and F-16 MRCA. An air force requires different types of planes for different roles. BAF can purchase both the type if it has the budget allocations. 16 units of J-10C and 16 F-16 Block 70/72. It will be a good combination when mixed with BAF's J-7 and Mig-29 planes.

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## Nahid

bluesky said:


> This is why J-10C is called MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) and F-16 MRCA. An air force requires different types of planes for different roles. BAF can purchase both the type if it has the budget allocations. 16 units of J-10C and 16 F-16 Block 70/72. It will be a good combination when mixed with BAF's J-7 and Mig-29 planes.


i will prefer f-16 block 70/72 over j-10c.


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## UKBengali

Nahid said:


> i will prefer f-16 block 70/72 over j-10c.



J-10C is required to take care of India.

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## Hassannn85

Just wondering guys why wouldn't Bangladesh consider Gripen E for BAF? Relatively inexpensive, low maintenance, top class EW and avionics, Meteor? 

Note: If already discussed before pardon my ignorance and ignore it.

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## Arthur

Hassannn85 said:


> Just wondering guys why wouldn't Bangladesh consider Gripen E for BAF? Relatively inexpensive, low maintenance, top class EW and avionics, Meteor?
> 
> Note: If already discussed before pardon my ignorance and ignore it.


BAF already vented the Gripen option. They wanted the C/D Gripens. But SAAB offered them E/F. If we consider E/F Gripens, with that price tag they have little advantage over F 16 Block 60 or Super Hornets.

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> BAF already vented the Gripen option. They wanted the C/D Gripens. But SAAB offered them E/F. If we consider E/F Gripens, with that price tag they have little advantage over F 16 Block 60 or Super Hornets.




This is interesting.

Gripen E may be expensive at 80 million US dollar per plane but it is extremely cheap to operate.

I would much rather BAF operate Gripen Es than F-16 Block 60 or Superhornets due to performance and cost reasons.

However I think USA would have vetoed it as they want BD to buy USA fighters.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> J-10C is required to take care of India.


Counter in raffles with them? I don’t think so


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Counter in raffles with them? I don’t think so



1.BD needs a rock solid supplier against India and only China fits the bill.

2.In China-Thai exercises last year, J-10C destroyed the Gripen Cs.

Remember Chinese technology is progressing faster than that of the West. In 10 years time any J-10Cs that BD has can always be upgraded with a new radar and electronics.

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## bluesky

UKBengali said:


> 1.BD needs a rock solid supplier against India and only China fits the bill.
> 
> 2.In China-Thai exercises last year, J-10C destroyed the Gripen Cs.
> 
> Remember Chinese technology is progressing faster than that of the West. In 10 years time any J-10Cs that BD has can always be upgraded with a new radar and electronics.


Fitted with AESA, J-10C is already a strong plane.

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## UKBengali

bluesky said:


> Fitted with AESA, J-10C is already a strong plane.




Let us not forget the PL-15 missile that can match any US or European missile in long-range air-to-air combat.

We need to remember that J-10C's radar and electronics were derived from the billions that China spent on developing their 5th generation J-20 fighter.

I have read reports that each plane only costs 40 million US dollars(half that of F-16 Block 70/72 or Gripen) and so BAF can afford to buy them in numbers.


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## Tanveer666

UKBengali said:


> 2.In China-Thai exercises last year, J-10C destroyed the Gripen Cs.


I thought it was the other way around


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## Bilal9

Tanveer666 said:


> I thought it was the other way around



I'd be willing to believe the Chinese media because of a few reasons.

1. J-10CE (export version) uses much more advanced AESA radar and the glass cockpit is more advanced and can achieve lock-on to the Gripens way earlier than the Gripen C/Ds can. Now Gripen E/F situation I have no idea. By the way it is common knowledge that the older F-16's in Thai inventory are even lower-rung than their Gripens electronics wise.

2. Aerodynamically J-10CE's use a front set of canards which afford very maneuverable set of movements at all above-stall speeds - much more so than the Gripens.

3. Like @UKBengali bhai mentioned - PL-15 missile launch capability is a big consideration.

4. Americans were not pleased with the Thais considering the J-10 (or any other Chinese fighter for that matter). It is understandable that by buying these J-10's (which are half the cost of the Gripen C/D's), Thailand is getting a way better bargain than the Gripens, powered with American jet engines. Bye bye dependency on uncle Sam. And there goes the American influence in the Asia Pacific neighborhood, one-by-one. In fact China might even sweeten the deal further by offering a 'friendship price'. We could be 'swung' by that kind of thing too.

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## Destranator

Arthur said:


> BAF already vented the Gripen option. They wanted the C/D Gripens. But SAAB offered them E/F. If we consider E/F Gripens, with that price tag they have little advantage over F 16 Block 60 or Super Hornets.


What is the source of this?
Gripen is the cheapest to operate and quite modular.



Hassannn85 said:


> Just wondering guys why wouldn't Bangladesh consider Gripen E for BAF? Relatively inexpensive, low maintenance, top class EW and avionics, Meteor?
> 
> Note: If already discussed before pardon my ignorance and ignore it.



Gripen is perfect for BAF.
The procurement stalemate has more to do with BAF's thumb-twiddling.

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## Avicenna

Not directly about BAF but the article gives an idea of the costs involved for 16 Block 70/72.

Keep in mind this is a repeat buy for the F-16 so the costs will reflect that.

https://www.janes.com/article/93267/lm-begins-f-16v-production-for-bahrain

*LM begins F-16V production for Bahrain*
*Gareth Jennings, London* - Jane's Defence Weekly
18 December 2019






Shaikh Abdullah bin Rashed Al Khalifa, ambassador of the Kingdom of Bahrain to the United States, visited Lockheed Martin’s production line in Greenville to mark to start of the country’s contract for 16 new-build F-16Vs. Source: Lockheed Martin
Lockheed Martin has begun production of 16 F-16V Block 70/72 Fighting Falcon combat aircraft for Bahrain, the company announced on 17 December.

The event was marked by a visit to the production facility at Greenville, South Carolina, by Shaikh Abdullah bin Rashed Al Khalifa, ambassador of the Kingdom of Bahrain to the United States.

In June 2018, Bahrain became the launch customer for the F-16V when it signed a* USD 1.12-billion contract for 16 new aircraft*. The Royal Bahraini Air Force (RBAF) will also upgrade its 20 Block 40 F-16C/D aircraft to this latest standard to make a total fleet of 36 F-16V aircraft.

As the most up-to-date version of the Fighting Falcon, the F-16V features the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 active electronically scanned array radar (derived from the F-16E/F Block 60 AN/APG-80 and also known as the Scalable Agile Beam Radar), a new Raytheon mission computer, the Link 16 datalink, modern cockpit displays, an enhanced electronic warfare system, and a ground-collision avoidance system.

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## BanglarBagh

Avicenna said:


> Not directly about BAF but the article gives an idea of the costs involved for 16 Block 70/72.
> 
> Keep in mind this is a repeat buy for the F-16 so the costs will reflect that.
> 
> https://www.janes.com/article/93267/lm-begins-f-16v-production-for-bahrain
> 
> *LM begins F-16V production for Bahrain*
> *Gareth Jennings, London* - Jane's Defence Weekly
> 18 December 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shaikh Abdullah bin Rashed Al Khalifa, ambassador of the Kingdom of Bahrain to the United States, visited Lockheed Martin’s production line in Greenville to mark to start of the country’s contract for 16 new-build F-16Vs. Source: Lockheed Martin
> Lockheed Martin has begun production of 16 F-16V Block 70/72 Fighting Falcon combat aircraft for Bahrain, the company announced on 17 December.
> 
> The event was marked by a visit to the production facility at Greenville, South Carolina, by Shaikh Abdullah bin Rashed Al Khalifa, ambassador of the Kingdom of Bahrain to the United States.
> 
> In June 2018, Bahrain became the launch customer for the F-16V when it signed a* USD 1.12-billion contract for 16 new aircraft*. The Royal Bahraini Air Force (RBAF) will also upgrade its 20 Block 40 F-16C/D aircraft to this latest standard to make a total fleet of 36 F-16V aircraft.
> 
> As the most up-to-date version of the Fighting Falcon, the F-16V features the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 active electronically scanned array radar (derived from the F-16E/F Block 60 AN/APG-80 and also known as the Scalable Agile Beam Radar), a new Raytheon mission computer, the Link 16 datalink, modern cockpit displays, an enhanced electronic warfare system, and a ground-collision avoidance system.


 
Calculating the price mentioned in the article the unit cost of F-16V is $70M a piece. $15M cheaper than Gripen E which costs $85M a piece. Well it's a great option for BAF although the maintenance and operating costs will be higher than Gripen. US might refuse to sell the engine for Gripen if BAF actually opted for it since they are openly stating the interest of selling their own platforms to BD.
The only question remains is the armaments that will be made available if BAF decides go for F-16V.....

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> I'd be willing to believe the Chinese media because of a few reasons.
> 
> 1. J-10CE (export version) uses much more advanced AESA radar and the glass cockpit is more advanced and can achieve lock-on to the Gripens way earlier than the Gripen C/Ds can. Now Gripen E/F situation I have no idea. By the way it is common knowledge that the older F-16's in Thai inventory are even lower-rung than their Gripens electronics wise.
> 
> 2. Aerodynamically J-10CE's use a front set of canards which afford very maneuverable set of movements at all above-stall speeds - much more so than the Gripens.
> 
> 3. Like @UKBengali bhai mentioned - PL-15 missile launch capability is a big consideration.
> 
> 4. Americans were not pleased with the Thais considering the J-10 (or any other Chinese fighter for that matter). It is understandable that by buying these J-10's (which are half the cost of the Gripen C/D's), Thailand is getting a way better bargain than the Gripens, powered with American jet engines. Bye bye dependency on uncle Sam. And there goes the American influence in the Asia Pacific neighborhood, one-by-one. In fact China might even sweeten the deal further by offering a 'friendship price'. We could be 'swung' by that kind of thing too.



No need for "friendship price" with China as BD is well able to afford the 40 million US dollar unit cost of J-10CE.
Munitions such as PL-15 missile may come to half that of Western ones.
What posters do not realise is that Chinese electronics has been ahead of Russia for many years and the gap with the West is narrowing all the time.

An advantage that J-10C has over Rafale is that it is canard-delta and optimised for air superiority and with it's 140KN WS-10B engine will reign supreme over Rafale in high altitude manouverability. Even though it may be a little inferior electronically it will have advantage in getting out the first BVR missile shot.

I say buy 2 squadrons of J-10CE and 1 squadron of refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 for the same cost as 1 squadron of brand new Eurofighter Tranche 3 and then BAF has enough for next 5 years before it needs to think about anything else.

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## UKBengali

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...-reveals-poor-performance-joint-exercise-rtaf

"_The JAS-39 performance was at its worst inside the within visual range (WVR) envelope. Over a two-day period, PLAAF pilots shot down 25 Gripens at a loss of only one Su-27"
"Once the exercise transitioned to beyond visual range (BVR) combat, the superiority of the JAS-39 became readily apparent. The Swedish aircraft shot down 41 Su-27s over a period of four days with a loss of only nine JAS-39s_."

Ok, the JAS-39C dominates the Chinese J-11A(1980s electronics) at BVR but loses at WVR.

"_The Gripen’s Raytheon AIM-120 AAM also outranged the RVV-AE at 80km versus only 50 km for the Russian missile_.

Now this is the critical factor here as the Gripen C could attack the J-11A way before the J-11A could get within range.

"_In subsequent exercises the PLAAF fared better by sending the Chengdu J-10A_"

Ok, so we can infer that the J-10A and the Gripen C may be equal overall by this statement.

"_Li pointed out that the J-10C was more of a match for the JAS-39C/D in that “its active array radar significantly improves detection distance and multi-target attack capability, the DSI (divertless) air intake of the J-10C reduces the radar intercept area while the PL-15 missile increases the range, making it an over-the-horizon platform_.”

Ok. the wording is a little ambiguous but I would think with the AESA radar and the long-range PL-15 missile, the J-10C could send volleys of missiles at the Gripen C before it could fire back. Gripen E and Meteor would be required to take on J-10C.


Now with the J-10C coming in at half or less the unit costs of new Western fighters and fairly cheap to operate, why would BAF not want the J-10C as it is from the only reliable supplier against India and could be brought in numbers to replace the F-7s?
Whatever advantage that Western fighters would still have over Chinese ones would probably be gone in 10-15 years and then BAF could get new radars and electronics for their J-10Cs from China.

@Avicenna
@Bilal9
@Arthur

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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> Ok, so we can infer that the J-10A and the Gripen C may be equal overall by this statement.


But unfortunately, according to PLAAF, Gripen C was defeated by J-10A from BVR to WVR.

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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> But unfortunately, according to PLAAF, Gripen C was defeated by J-10A from BVR to WVR.



Has the radar on the J-10A been upgraded?


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> Has the radar on the J-10A been upgraded?


Of course not yet.


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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> Of course not yet.



Thai Gripen C's have the PS-05/A Mark 3 went radar that went into service in 2005. I doubt J-10A radar can match this but J-10A would have better high altitude manouverability and speed and so could fire first at Gripen C.


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> Thai Gripen C's have the PS-05/A Mark 3 went radar that went into service in 2005. I doubt J-10A radar can match this


J-10A began service in PLAAF in 2004.

Besides, you missed one thing: J-10A is a mediumweight fighter, while Gripen C a lightweight fighter. The size of J-10A's radar is much bigger than that of Gripen C.

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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> J-10A began service in PLAAF in 2004.
> 
> Besides, you missed one thing: J-10A is a mediumweight fighter, while Gripen C a lightweight fighter. The size of J-10A's radar is much bigger than that of Gripen C.



Yeah but I would still say that the Gripen C is electronically better than J-10A.

No way that Chinese radar/electronic tech in mid-2000s caught up with the West.

J-10C AESA is probably still a little behind the AESA in the Gripen E but it has the advantage of having a larger radar and of course the J-10C has better flight characteristics at high altitude over Gripen E. I think it would be a close match between those two fighters.


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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> Yeah but I would still say that the Gripen C is electronically better than J-10A.
> 
> No way that Chinese radar/electronic tech in mid-2000s caught up with the West.


You can do your homework about KLJ-7 radar for JF-17 BLK I/II, and it is just for export.


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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force is buying Anti-Tank Fuse Bomb for F-7BG aircraft.







Bangladesh Air Force has floated a tender for Procurement of 1xK-8W Jet Training simulator.






C-130B of Bangladesh Air Force taking off from Bunia Airport. This particular aircraft serving in UN Peacekeeping Mission.

PC- MK Photography








UKBengali said:


> In China-Thai exercises last year, J-10C destroyed the Gripen Cs.





UKBengali said:


> "_Li pointed out that the J-10C was more of a match for the JAS-39C/D in that “its active array radar significantly improves detection distance and multi-target attack capability, the DSI (divertless) air intake of the J-10C reduces the radar intercept area while the PL-15 missile increases the range, making it an over-the-horizon platform_.”



But we or India will get Gripen E if we/they want. So question is how much good J-10C is against Gripen E?



Avicenna said:


> In June 2018, Bahrain became the launch customer for the F-16V when it signed a* USD 1.12-billion contract for 16 new aircraft*. The Royal Bahraini Air Force (RBAF) will also upgrade its 20 Block 40 F-16C/D aircraft to this latest standard to make a total fleet of 36 F-16V aircraft.



Didn't they get it in this price because they already have the necessary stuff to support the procurement?

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> But we or India will get Gripen E if we/they want. So question is how much good J-10C is against Gripen E?



Gripen E is twice as expensive as J-10C and supply is not guaranteed against India unlike J-10C.

J-10C also is a larger fighter and has better high altitude maneuverability.


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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> You didn't notice the second part. Ok let's say we didn't get Gripen E but India did. So how good J-10C will be against IAF Gripen E that question still remains. We shouldn't talk about Thai Gripen C/D as it won't be here.




I did.

India already has Rafale and them getting Gripen E would make no difference to the strategic situation.

Anyway like I already said, Chinese tech is progressing faster than that of the West and BAF can always upgrade the radar and electronics of the J-10C when they become available.

Pretty much all Western aircraft apart from refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s are unaffordable for BD in my opinion.


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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> I did.
> 
> India already has Rafale and them getting Gripen E would make no difference to the strategic situation.
> 
> Anyway like I already said, Chinese tech is progressing faster than that of the West and BAF can always upgrade the radar and electronics of the J-10C when they become available.
> 
> Pretty much all Western aircraft apart from refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s are unaffordable for BD in my opinion.



Rafale order was cut back. India is looking for a single engine MRCA so they launched the MRCA program again and SAAB is ready to provide full TOT. The "progressing" part of J-10C is not assuring. J-10C have to be good enough to counter IAF/MAF's new jet with latest tech. What matters most is what J-10C can offer right now against current threat as BAF needs new jet immediately with cutting edge tech. "progressing" is not good and the west have enough resources to upgrade their fighters, you are wrong in this part.

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> Rafale order was cut back. India is looking for a single engine MRCA so they launched the MRCA program again and SAAB ready ro provide full TOT. The "progressing" part of J-10C is not assuring. J-10C have to be good enough to counter IAF/MAF's new jet with latest tech. What matters most is what J-10C can offer right now against current threat as BAF needs new jet immediately with cutting edge tech. "progressing" is not good and the west have enough resources to upgrade their fighters, you are wrong in this part.



BD has publicly said it wants 16 aircraft for MRCA.

1. Eurofighter - 100 million dollars per plane and extremely expensive to operate
2. Gripen E - 85 million US dollars per plane although US would block this as they want BD to buy their planes, but cheap to operate
3. Superhornet - 80 million US dollars per plane and moderately expensive to operate
4. Refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 - 30 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate
5. J-10C - 40 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate

There is an outside chance of ex-German Eurofighter Tranche 1 upgraded with AESA radar and new electronics for 50-60 million dollars per plane but still extremely expensive to operate

To me it looks like BD can only afford the F-16 Block 50/52 and the J-10C. J-10C is clearly the more advanced fighter with better radar and better missile(PL-15), assuming US only allows AIM-120C7 with the F-16. BAF could freely use the J-10C against India whereas the F-16 Block 50/52 can be freely used against Myanmar.


So BD can either purchase say 16 new build Euro-fighters or go for 32 J-10Cs + 16 F-16Cs for the same money. Infrastructure costs will be a little more though for two fighters rather than one.

To me it is a no brainer to go for the latter.

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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> BD has publicly said it wants 16 aircraft for MRCA.
> 
> 1. Eurofighter - 100 million dollars per plane and extremely expensive to operate
> 2. Gripen E - 85 million US dollars per plane although US would block this as they want BD to buy their planes, but cheap to operate
> 3. Superhornet - 80 million US dollars per plane and moderately expensive to operate
> 4. Refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 - 30 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate
> 5. J-10C - 40 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate
> 
> There is an outside chance of ex-German Eurofighter Tranche 1 upgraded with AESA radar and new electronics for 50-60 million dollars per plane but still extremely expensive to operate
> 
> To me it looks like BD can only afford the F-16 Block 50/52 and the J-10C. J-10C is clearly the more advanced fighter with better radar and better missile(PL-15), assuming US only allows AIM-120C7 with the F-16. BAF could freely use the J-10C against India whereas the F-16 Block 50/52 can be freely used against Myanmar.
> 
> 
> So BD can either purchase say 16 new build Euro-fighters or go for 32 J-10Cs + 16 F-16Cs for the same money. Infrastructure costs will be a little more though for two fighters rather than one.
> 
> To me it is a no brainer to go for the latter.


F-16V would be a best choice for BD.
And then, there would be a competition between IAF's Rafale with Meteor, BAF's F-16V with AIM-120D, and MAF's JF-17 with PL-15.


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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> F-16V would be a best choice for BD.
> And then, there would a competition between IAF's Rafale with Meteor, BAF's F-16V with AIM-120D, and MAF's JF-17 with PL-15.



F-16V is too expensive at 80 million US dollars per plane and BAF needs an aircraft that can freely fire on Indian planes and only Chinese aircraft fit the bill. I doubt USA would give BD f-16V with AIM-120D anyway.

Let us leave JF-17 Block 3 with PL-15 out for now as even Pakistan does not have it, and like I already said Myanmar probably cannot afford anything more than it has ordered so far as it has puny 70 billion US dollar economy.

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## LKJ86

UKBengali said:


> F-16V is too expensive at 80 million US dollars per plane and BAF needs an aircraft that can freely fire on Indian planes and only Chinese aircraft fit the bill. I doubt USA would give BD f-16V with AIM-129D anyway.


It would be foolish for BD to buy two similar mediumweight fighters at the same time.
And F-16V is just what you need.



UKBengali said:


> Let us leave JF-17 Block 3 with PL-15 out for now as even Pakistan does not have it, and like I already said Myanmar probably cannot afford anything more than it has ordered so far as it has puny 70 billion US dollar economy.


It is just the matter of time.


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## UKBengali

LKJ86 said:


> It is just the matter of time.



BD will worry about that as and when it occurs.

Right now BAF needs to sign the contract for the 16 MRCA before June 30 this year and so let us see what they choose - will it be US/EU or China?

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> No need for "friendship price" with China as BD is well able to afford the 40 million US dollar unit cost of J-10CE.
> Munitions such as PL-15 missile may come to half that of Western ones.
> What posters do not realise is that Chinese electronics has been ahead of Russia for many years and the gap with the West is narrowing all the time.
> 
> An advantage that J-10C has over Rafale is that it is canard-delta and optimised for air superiority and with it's 140KN WS-10B engine will reign supreme over Rafale in high altitude manouverability. Even though it may be a little inferior electronically it will have advantage in getting out the first BVR missile shot.
> 
> I say buy 2 squadrons of J-10CE and 1 squadron of refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 for the same cost as 1 squadron of brand new Eurofighter Tranche 3 and then BAF has enough for next 5 years before it needs to think about anything else.



Thanks for your very clear thoughts but I hope BAF mgmt. sees through all the other 'influences'.


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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> Thanks for your very clear thoughts but I hope BAF mgmt. sees through all the other 'influences'.



Yep I fear a lack of strategic foresight may occur.

BAF aquisitions and investing resources in building up BD's aeronautical industry need to go hand in hand. One cannot be separate from the other.

BD has every chance of becoming a very powerful country economically and militarily by mid-century and the decisions made now will decide the outcome.

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## Destranator

BanglarBagh said:


> Calculating the price mentioned in the article the unit cost of F-16V is $70M a piece. $15M cheaper than Gripen E which costs $85M a piece. Well it's a great option for BAF although the maintenance and operating costs will be higher than Gripen. US might refuse to sell the engine for Gripen if BAF actually opted for it since they are openly stating the interest of selling their own platforms to BD.
> The only question remains is the armaments that will be made available if BAF decides go for F-16V.....



What is the source of the $85 million price tag for Gripen? Saab is more open to ToT which, in addition to its inherent low operational costs, makes it a better candidate.

Brazil has ordered 36 units for $4.06 billion ($130 million/unit) but this includes ToT, joint development, set up of development centre in Sao Paulo and training of 350 Brazilian engineers and technicians in Sweden.

http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/en/...-receives-first-36-fighter-jets-bought-sweden

Not sure if the deal includes maintenance as well but regardless this seems like a very good deal.

A similar deal with BAF/BAC can benefit Bangladesh for generations.

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## Bilal9

Al-Ansar said:


> What is the source of the $85 million price tag for Gripen? Saab is more open to ToT which, in addition to its inherent low operational costs, makes it a better candidate.
> 
> Brazil has ordered 36 units for $4.06 billion ($130 million/unit) but this includes ToT, joint development, set up of development centre in Sao Paulo and training of 350 Brazilian engineers and technicians in Sweden.
> 
> http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/en/...-receives-first-36-fighter-jets-bought-sweden
> 
> Not sure if the deal includes maintenance as well but regardless this seems like a very good deal.
> 
> A similar deal with BAF/BAC can benefit Bangladesh for generations.



Bangladesh and Brazil aren't in the same boat aerospace wise, in fact India and Brazil aren't in the same boat for that matter. Just pointing out the obvious, do not mean any disrespect brother...

Brazil has a long tradition of independent production of aerospace products, even first class passenger airliners (Embraer) and defence products (AMX A1A fighters) with Alenia/Aermacchi in Italy starting in the late eighties.










Indians on the other hand, are big on importing sub-systems and putting them together (sometimes taking four/five times longer than countries like Pakistan) to produce a finished product. This - when they had an early headstart after WWII from Mr. Willi Messerschmitt himself (Marut) but effed it up over the years...

In any case, Bangladesh will have a long road ahead, but at least we can make an earnest sincere start Somewhere....

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladesh and Brazil aren't in the same boat aerospace wise, in fact India and Brazil aren't in the same boat for that matter. Just pointing out the obvious, do not mean any disrespect brother...
> 
> Brazil has a long tradition of independent production of aerospace products, even first class passenger airliners (Embraer) and defence products (fighters) with Alenia/Aermacchi in Italy.
> 
> Indians on the other hand, are big on importing sub-systems and putting them together (sometimes taking four/five times longer than countries like Pakistan) to produce a finished product. This - when they had an early headstart after WWII from Mr. Willi Messerschmitt himself (Marut) but effed it up over the years...


Bangladesh will need a lot of hand-holding for sure which will raise the cost of a similar deal for us. Yet this might work out cheaper in the long run (20-30 years), due to cheaper maintenance and upgrades (Gripens are quite futureproof), and the expertise gained would pave way for savings in future fighter deals.

One thing we must not lose sight of is that the J-10 is still unproven. Everything we know about this fighter is from Chinese sources with no scope verification form an export customer as none exists.
J-10A's may have "defeated" Gripen C's in a simulated environment but how often can the J-10 remain in the air in a real combat scenario given the engine troubles?
How frequent would the overhauls be?
We need fighters which can take advantage of the low MTBO, low servicability of Indian MKIs. J-10s might give away that advantage due to its own struggles.

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## Bilal9

Al-Ansar said:


> Bangladesh will need a lot of hand-holding for sure which will raise the cost of a similar deal for us. Yet this might work out cheaper in the long run (20-30 years), due to cheaper maintenance and upgrades (Gripens are quite futureproof), and the expertise gained would pave way for savings in future fighter deals.
> 
> One thing we must not lose sight of is that the J-10 is still unproven. Everything we know about this fighter is from Chinese sources with no scope verification form an export customer as none exists.
> J-10A's may have "defeated" Gripen C's in a simulated environment but how often can the J-10 remain in the air in a real combat scenario given the engine troubles?
> How frequent would the overhauls be?
> We need fighters which can take advantage of the low MTBO, low servicability of Indian MKIs. J-10s might give away that advantage due to its own struggles.



Well lets see what the Thai order and trialing produces. I am sure the Thais will not report things favoring the Chinese.

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## BanglarBagh

Al-Ansar said:


> What is the source of the $85 million price tag for Gripen? Saab is more open to ToT which, in addition to its inherent low operational costs, makes it a better candidate.
> 
> Brazil has ordered 36 units for $4.06 billion ($130 million/unit) but this includes ToT, joint development, set up of development centre in Sao Paulo and training of 350 Brazilian engineers and technicians in Sweden.
> 
> http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/en/...-receives-first-36-fighter-jets-bought-sweden
> 
> Not sure if the deal includes maintenance as well but regardless this seems like a very good deal.
> 
> A similar deal with BAF/BAC can benefit Bangladesh for generations.



You have a valid point. What BAF needs most is ToT for a fighter to really start up a aviation industry domestically. In this scenario Saab seems to be the best likely partner for BAC with the Gripen being the fighter in question. The initial process could cost us more but as I also mentioned the cost of operations and maintenance would be much lower so this choice may even out the overall costs in the long run at the same time establish a solid foundation for aviation industry.
However, there is still one catch! As you may know US has openly voiced their interest to sell advanced military platforms to BD and that includes fighters as well. Don't you think Uncle Sam may veto a deal for BAF to get Gripens? Let's not forget Gripen uses US engines, some subsystems and armaments as well. If US refuses to sell these then BAF will be in another pickle like when the SU-30SME deal backfired because not being able to complete the deal will slow down the process again for a few years. Just look at the T-129 deal of Turkey and Pakistan and you see the dangers of importing platforms which are not US ones but use US tech and systems.

After considering all these I think F-16V may be the platform BAF should go for but it is just my opinion.....


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## TopCat

BanglarBagh said:


> You have a valid point. What BAF needs most is ToT for a fighter to really start up a aviation industry domestically. In this scenario Saab seems to be the best likely partner for BAC with the Gripen being the fighter in question. The initial process could cost us more but as I also mentioned the cost of operations and maintenance would be much lower so this choice may even out the overall costs in the long run at the same establish a solid foundation for aviation industry.
> However, there is still one catch! As you may know US has openly voiced their interest to sell advanced military platforms to BD and that includes fighters as well. Don't you think Uncle Sam may veto a deal for BAF to get Gripens? Let's not forget Gripen uses US engines, some subsystems and armaments as well. If US refuses to sell these then BAF will be in another pickle like when the SU-30SME deal backfired because not being able to complete the deal will slow down the process again for a few years. Just look at the T-129 deal of Turkey and Pakistan and you see the dangers of importing platforms which are not US ones but use US tech and systems.
> 
> After considering all these I think F-16V may be the platform BAF should go for but it is just my opinion.....


China best fitted for TOT as BD does not have capacity neither financial means to absorb western technology.


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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Bangladesh will need a lot of hand-holding for sure which will raise the cost of a similar deal for us. Yet this might work out cheaper in the long run (20-30 years), due to cheaper maintenance and upgrades (Gripens are quite futureproof), and the expertise gained would pave way for savings in future fighter deals.
> 
> One thing we must not lose sight of is that the J-10 is still unproven. Everything we know about this fighter is from Chinese sources with no scope verification form an export customer as none exists.
> J-10A's may have "defeated" Gripen C's in a simulated environment but how often can the J-10 remain in the air in a real combat scenario given the engine troubles?
> How frequent would the overhauls be?
> We need fighters which can take advantage of the low MTBO, low servicability of Indian MKIs. J-10s might give away that advantage due to its own struggles.




Is Gripen E “proven”? It uses a reliable US engine but everything else is new.

Look at the high availability rate of the JF-17 that is Chinese, apart from Russian engine to know how reliable Chinese planes are.

Anyway WS-10B is at least as reliable as the AL-31 it replaced and so while not as reliable as Western planes, it will be better than Russian “Hangar Queens” like IAF’s SU-30MKI.

J-10C has high altitude manoeuvrability advantage over both the Gripen E and Rafale and that should suffice to make up for any electronic disadvantage it may have.

China is desperate to sell J-10C to BD and BD should take the chance to buy the aircraft in numbers(32) on good credit terms to really build an airforce that can deter it’s main adversary India.

Remember by buying Chinese BD buys into a military industrial complex that will within 1-2 decades become as comprehensive and as advanced as that of the US.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Is Gripen E “proven”? It uses a reliable US engine but everything else is new.
> 
> Look at the high availability rate of the JF-17 that is Chinese, apart from Russian engine to know how reliable Chinese planes are.
> 
> Anyway WS-10B is at least as reliable as the AL-31 it replaced and so while not as reliable as Western planes, it will be better than Russian “Hangar Queens” like IAF’s SU-30MKI.
> 
> J-10C has high altitude manoeuvrability advantage over both the Gripen E and Rafale and that should suffice to make up for any electronic disadvantage it may have.
> 
> China is desperate to sell J-10C to BD and BD should take the chance to buy the aircraft in numbers(32) on good credit terms to really build an airforce that can deter it’s main adversary India.
> 
> Remember by buying Chinese BD buys into a military industrial complex that will within 1-2 decades become as comprehensive and as advanced as that of the US.


1. Gripen is proven by the number of export customers using it without any major fuss. Mind you unlike many clients of Chinese airctaft Gripen users have many options open to them so they have no reason to heap unnecessary praise on the aircraft.
2. There is no way to independently verify JF-17's "availability rate" just yet as effectively the only user is Pakistan (Burma has only inducted them very recently) who have a lot of pride invested in it. Cannot expect Pakistanis to broadcast its weaknesses.

3. *Russian* engine, exactly. BAF's alleged MiG-35/Su-35 fiasco should provide enough indication about Russian attitude.

4. Again, zero evidence of "WS-10B" being reliable.

5. "J-10C has high altitude manoeuvrability advantage over both the Gripen E and Rafale and that should suffice to make up for any electronic disadvantage it may have."
Wow...that's a massive assumption. J-10's alleged high maneuverability will be of no use if it gets swatted out by BVR missiles aided by superior Western EW/ECM suites.

6. There is no evidence of China "catching up" to the West in fighter tech. If they did, they would be flooded with back orders for J-10s powered by "reliable" WS-10B's.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> 1. Gripen is proven by the number of export customers using it without any major fuss. Mind you unlike many clients of Chinese airctaft Gripen users have many options open to them so they have no reason to heap unnecessary praise on the aircraft.
> 2. There is no way to independently verify JF-17's "availability rate" just yet as effectively the only user is Pakistan (Burma has only inducted them very recently) who have a lot of pride invested in it. Cannot expect Pakistanis to broadcast its weaknesses.
> 
> 3. *Russian* engine, exactly. BAF's alleged MiG-35/Su-35 fiasco should provide enough indication about Russian attitude.
> 
> 4. Again, zero evidence of "WS-10B" being reliable.
> 
> 5. "J-10C has high altitude manoeuvrability advantage over both the Gripen E and Rafale and that should suffice to make up for any electronic disadvantage it may have."
> Wow...that's a massive assumption. J-10's alleged high maneuverability will be of no use if it gets swatted out by BVR missiles aided by superior Western EW/ECM suites.
> 
> 6. There is no evidence of China "catching up" to the West in fighter tech. If they did, they would be flooded with back orders for J-10s powered by "reliable" WS-10B's.



Dude.....

If you do not want to think more than at a shallow and rigid level level, let me not stop you. 

It seems any further attempt to explain to you why you are utterly wrong will go over your head and so I will not bother.

PS - How did you stack up at school in your cohort if you do not mind me asking, particularly in mathematics?


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## Destranator

BanglarBagh said:


> You have a valid point. What BAF needs most is ToT for a fighter to really start up a aviation industry domestically. In this scenario Saab seems to be the best likely partner for BAC with the Gripen being the fighter in question. The initial process could cost us more but as I also mentioned the cost of operations and maintenance would be much lower so this choice may even out the overall costs in the long run at the same time establish a solid foundation for aviation industry.
> However, there is still one catch! As you may know US has openly voiced their interest to sell advanced military platforms to BD and that includes fighters as well. Don't you think Uncle Sam may veto a deal for BAF to get Gripens? Let's not forget Gripen uses US engines, some subsystems and armaments as well. If US refuses to sell these then BAF will be in another pickle like when the SU-30SME deal backfired because not being able to complete the deal will slow down the process again for a few years. Just look at the T-129 deal of Turkey and Pakistan and you see the dangers of importing platforms which are not US ones but use US tech and systems.
> 
> After considering all these I think F-16V may be the platform BAF should go for but it is just my opinion.....



The US trying to block Gripen sales over F-16s is a valid concern. However,, this needs to be brought to the table and discussed with them.
The US did not block Gripen sales to Thailand, for example, who also fly F-16s.
One option could be to get 1-2 squadrons of refurbished F-16s to retire F-7MBs and MiG-29s. This way we transition to Western ecosystem quicker while paving way for Gripens without pissing off the Americans.
We will need single engine fighters in numbers in the long term so it is okay to maintain two different platforms.
Once both F-16s and Gripens arrive, all F-7 types can be retired.
Again, these options need to be discussed extensively with the US.



UKBengali said:


> Dude.....
> 
> If you do not want to think more than at a shallow and rigid level level, let me not stop you.
> 
> It seems any further attempt to explain to you why you are utterly wrong will go over your head and so I will not bother.
> 
> PS - How did you stack up at school in your cohort if you do not mind me asking, particularly in mathematics?



Sure. Blind fanboy-ism for unproven Chinese tech and "will be/can be/should be" conjectures will solve all our problems. Carry on.
All you are doing is building one strawman over another in regards to J-10s. Pull one straw out and the stack comes crashing down.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> Sure. Blind fanboy-ism for unproven Chinese tech and "will be/can be/should be" conjectures will solve all our problems. Carry on.
> All you are doing is building one strawman over another in regards to J-10s. Pull one straw out and the stack comes crashing down.



Dude,I can say you are a Western fanboy, see where this is leading to?
At least I provided actual evidence of J-10A/C versus Gripen C exercises in Thailand to back up my points.

Now how did you rank in your school cohort, especially at mathematics, will highlight why you are utterly wrong and thinking at such a shallow level?


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Dude,I can say you are a Western fanboy, see where this is leading to?
> At least I provided actual evidence of J-10A/C versus Gripen C exercises in Thailand to back up my points.
> 
> Now how did you rank in your school cohort, especially at mathematics, will highlight why you are utterly wrong and thinking at such a shallow level?



LOL. 

You're so funny.

@Al-Ansar makes several good points.

The reality is all of us on here are making massive assumptions and working with limited knowledge.

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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> No need for "friendship price" with China as BD is well able to afford the 40 million US dollar unit cost of J-10CE.
> Munitions such as PL-15 missile may come to half that of Western ones.
> What posters do not realise is that Chinese electronics has been ahead of Russia for many years and the gap with the West is narrowing all the time.
> 
> An advantage that J-10C has over Rafale is that it is canard-delta and optimised for air superiority and with it's 140KN WS-10B engine will reign supreme over Rafale in high altitude manouverability. Even though it may be a little inferior electronically it will have advantage in getting out the first BVR missile shot.
> 
> I say buy 2 squadrons of J-10CE and 1 squadron of refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 for the same cost as 1 squadron of brand new Eurofighter Tranche 3 and then BAF has enough for next 5 years before it needs to think about anything else.



I totally agree with the idea of buying J-10C. It's a capable platform, cheap, sanction free against India and can even be produced in BD with Chinese assistance.

For monkeys we need another platform, and the best would be Gripen E. It's cheaper to acquire and operate and very advanced. The only issue will be the American engine and other subsystems. I wonder if we have a large enough order and local manufacturing, would SAAB be interested in installing an European engine?

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> You're so funny.
> 
> @Al-Ansar makes several good points.
> 
> The reality is all of us on here are making massive assumptions and working with limited knowledge.



Only if your thinking abilities are at that shallow level do they seem like good points.

Again why talk about a subject that requires a high aptitude of mathematical ability when you are probably not very good at the subject yourself?

BD needs to think BIG if it is to achieve BIG.

Luckily the BD government seems to think big and that is what counts.



Bengal71 said:


> I totally agree with the idea of buying J-10C. It's a capable platform, cheap, sanction free against India and can even be produced in BD with Chinese assistance.
> 
> For monkeys we need another platform, and the best would be Gripen E. It's cheaper to acquire and operate and very advanced. The only issue will be the American engine and other subsystems. I wonder if we have a large enough order and local manufacturing, would SAAB be interested in installing an European engine?



Forget Gripen E as US would sanction it as they want BD to buy US fighters.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> Only if your thinking abilities are at that shallow level do they seem like good points.
> 
> Again why talk about a subject that requires a high altitude of mathematical ability when you are probably not very good at the subject yourself?
> 
> BD needs to think BIG if it is to achieve BIG.
> 
> Luckily the BD government seems to think big and that is what counts.
> 
> 
> 
> Forget Gripen E as US would sanction it as they want BD to buy US fighters.



Like I said, it we order a large enough number with local assembly, wouldn't they install Ej-200 for us? Of course it will require a redesign and cost some more, but is it not possible?


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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> Like I said, it we order a large enough number with local assembly, wouldn't they install Ej-200 for us? Of course it will require a redesign and cost some more, but is it not possible?



Gripen E comes to 85 million US dollars per plane.

BD would have to order dozens to have Sweden even think about looking at swapping out the engine as the cost could come to 1 billion US dollars and BD would have to pay at least partially. The Gripen was never designed to work with EJ-2000 engine and apart from airframe modification, it would also need some work on it's flight control software.

BAF probably would struggle to pay for 16 to be honest.
It also needs to pay for 8 AH-64E from USA.

Right now the only 2 planes that look affordable to me are refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s and J-10C. Ex-German Eurofighter Tranche 1 also would be affordable but the running costs would hurt BAF badly.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Only if your thinking abilities are at that shallow level do they seem like good points.
> 
> Again why talk about a subject that requires a high altitude of mathematical ability when you are probably not very good at the subject yourself?
> 
> BD needs to think BIG if it is to achieve BIG.
> 
> Luckily the BD government seems to think big and that is what counts.
> 
> 
> 
> Forget Gripen E as US would sanction it as they want BD to buy US fighters.



Dude!

You make alot of assumptions and talk in the future tense alot.

Dude!

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Dude!
> 
> You make alot of assumptions and talk in the future tense alot.
> 
> Dude!



To achieve you plan decades ahead.

These procurements cannot be separated at all from where BD sees itself decades down the line.

Some would like BD to become Western puppet and think West will remain ahead of China for decades to come and so BD has no options.

I see BD as becoming a powerful country decades down the line and therefore have no wish for BD to become dependent on any pole - be it West or China.

One thing for sure is that BD government thinks decades down the line and not the short 5 year attention spans that most posters here have - mainly immaturity and lack of knowledge is to blame for this. That is more than enough for me as only what BD government thinks counts.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> Gripen E comes to 85 million US dollars per plane.
> 
> BD would have to order dozens to have Sweden even think about looking at swapping out the engine as the cost could come to 1 billion US dollars and BD would have to pay at least partially. The Gripen was never designed to work with EJ-2000 engine and apart from airframe modification, it would also need some work on it's flight control software.
> 
> BAF probably would struggle to pay for 16 to be honest.
> It also needs to pay for 8 AH-64E from USA.
> 
> Right now the only 2 planes that look affordable to me are refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s and J-10C. Ex-German Eurofighter Tranche 1 also would be affordable but the running costs would hurt BAF badly.



BD can afford more than 16. I would say BD can afford 5 squadrons of J-10c and Gripen E each. Our leaders are shit and they never ever thought on spending on armed forces.


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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> BD can afford more than 16. I would say BD can afford 5 squadrons of J-10c and Gripen E each. Our leaders are shit and they never ever thought on spending on armed forces.



You are right if BD government was to increase the share of GDP on defence.

Right now it is 1.5% of GDP and it would need to rise to something like 2%.

Problem for BD is that they are finding it hard to raise any more than 12% of revenue from GDP and are not willing to sacrifice other areas like infrastructure spending to pay for this. We can argue on whether they are right on this as there are good arguments both way.

Gripen E would have been an amazing jet that even at 16 planes would suffice to take care of the savages next door, but US veto means it is out of reach for BD. Once BD had paid for the planes, the running costs would be extremely cheap and so probably no more expensive over it's lifetime than say J-10C.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> You are right if BD government was to increase the share of GDP on defence.
> 
> Right now it is 1.5% of GDP and it would need to rise to something like 2%.
> 
> Problem for BD is that they are finding it hard to raise any more than 12% of revenue from GDP and are not willing to sacrifice other areas like infrastructure spending to pay for this. We can argue on whether they are right on this as there are good arguments both way.
> 
> Gripen E would have been an amazing jet that even at 16 planes would suffice to take care of the savages next door, but US veto means it is out of reach for BD. Once BD had paid for the planes, the running costs would be extremely cheap and so probably no more expensive over it's lifetime than say J-10C.



Gripen is also less sanction prone at least in the ordnance. Customers are allowed to integrate and use third party munitions and there are already an assortment of ordnance certified from various sources.

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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> Gripen is also less sanction prone at least in the ordnance. Customers are allowed to integrate and use third party munitions and there are already an assortment of ordnance certified from various sources.



Yes once BAF gets Gripen E US can only block sale of new planes.
That amazing GE engine would have lasted as long as the airframe.


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## Michael Corleone

In the near future 5th generation fighter will be inducted in BAF- Bangladesh president


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> In the near future 5th generation fighter will be inducted in BAF- Bangladesh president



What?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> What?



Like I say BD thinks BIG.

Look at things like BAC - primary trainer due to fly next year, aeronautical university, 6 next gen frigates to be built in BD etc..

Also think where BD was 200 years ago compared to rest of world, let alone S Asia and you will get an idea of where BD wants to be in the future.
It was no accident that UK feared the re-rise of Bengalis the most in British India.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Like I say BD thinks BIG.
> 
> Look at things like BAC - primary trainer due to fly next year, aeronautical university, 6 next gen frigates to be built in BD etc..
> 
> Also think where BD was 200 years ago compared to rest of world, let alone S Asia and you will get an idea of where BD wants to be in the future.
> It was no accident that UK feared the re-rise of Bengalis the most in British India.



Delusions of grandeur.

Stop making Bangladesh into a laughing stock with your ridiculously irrational overconfidence.

Bangladesh is doing better than years past.

But it’s still a poor country with a ton of problems.

Your posts are fuel to the troll fire.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Delusions of grandeur.
> 
> Stop making Bangladesh into a laughing stock with your ridiculously irrational overconfidence.
> 
> Bangladesh is doing better than years past.
> 
> But it’s still a poor country with a ton of problems.
> 
> Your posts are fuel to the troll fire.



"Overconfidence"?
More like reality slowly unfolding before our very eyes.

If you seriously think that BD is anything like Pakistan or India, then I suggest you go learn some S Asian history quick.

Anyway like I say what matters is BD government thinks BIG. Luckily people that are limited in thinking have little say in current BD government policy.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> What?


Yep. He explicitly mentioned stealth aircraft apart from 16x MRCA plans and 8x maritime strike...
So my bet is j10 is not coming after all, instead they’ll wait for j31 to mature



UKBengali said:


> Like I say BD thinks BIG.
> 
> Look at things like BAC - primary trainer due to fly next year, aeronautical university, 6 next gen frigates to be built in BD etc..
> 
> Also think where BD was 200 years ago compared to rest of world, let alone S Asia and you will get an idea of where BD wants to be in the future.
> It was no accident that UK feared the re-rise of Bengalis the most in British India.


Not next year, but the first working prototype of an aircraft (propeller driven or jet) will not fly until the next 3 years. Atleast that’s what the new university head said
As for the rest of your post, I wanted to tell you this upfront but I thought you would be offended but I agree with @Avicenna hold your horses

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Not next year, but the first working prototype of an aircraft (propeller driven or jet) will not fly until the next 3 years. Atleast that’s what the new university head said



Not surprised as reality can conflict with planned schedules.


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## Bengal71

UKBengali said:


> Yes once BAF gets Gripen E US can only block sale of new planes.
> That amazing GE engine would have lasted as long as the airframe.



Yes, additional spare engines should be ordered during the procurement. It's very regrettable that such a suitable platform is not available for us.

I can honestly see only two fighters that fit our budget, technology requirements and the geopolitics in the neighborhood. That's J-10 and Gripen. One will be reliable against India and the other can take care of monkeys and both are highly capable systems.

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## UKBengali

Bengal71 said:


> Yes, additional spare engines should be ordered during the procurement. It's very regrettable that such a suitable platform is not available for us.
> 
> I can honestly see only two fighters that fit our budget, technology requirements and the geopolitics in the neighborhood. That's J-10 and Gripen. One will be reliable against India and the other can take care of monkeys and both are highly capable systems.



It is such a reliable engine on the Gripen E that you do not really need any more than a few spares.
GE engines last as long as the airframe on fighters.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> It is such a reliable engine on the Gripen E that you do not really need any more than a few spares.
> GE engines last as long as the airframe on fighters.


Almost all fights will be WVR with India and sukhoi/ rafale will both have advantage in WVR over the gripen of the Thai excercise is anything to go by


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Almost all fights will be WVR with India and sukhoi/ rafale will both have advantage in WVR over the gripen of the Thai excercise is anything to go by



Why you say that?

Most fights in modern aerial warfare are BVR no?

BD is large enough that it's fighters will not be based so close to Indian border that WVR action will be the norm as far as I can see.

Btw, I was not that impressed with Gripen C beating the 1980s-era J-11A 41:9 in BVR combat back in 2015 Thai-China exercises. The Gripen C had both a missile advantage (80km AMRAAM versus 50 km R-77) and also a radar 20 years newer than the old Russian fighter.

Hmmm, that makes me wonder just how would J-10C really stack up against Rafale, especially when you consider the high-altitude speed and manouverability advantage the Chinese fighter has over the French one.
J-10C could well be competitive enough to neutralise Rafale.


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## Indos

I think Bangladesh should buy CN 235 for transport, special operation, MPA, border patrol, SAR and CSAR role. Its new gunship version IMO will be valuable for border patrol in BD-MY border or BD-IND border. Even Senegal is going to repeat order for this plane soon, showing its satisfaction with the first order. 

https://www.janes.com/article/94283...final-stages-of-negotiation-for-second-cn-235


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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> I think Bangladesh should buy CN 235 for transport, special operation, MPA, border patrol, SAR and CSAR role. Its new gunship version IMO will be valuable for border patrol in BD-MY border or BD-IND border. Even Senegal is going to repeat order for this plane soon, showing its satisfaction with the first order.
> 
> https://www.janes.com/article/94283...final-stages-of-negotiation-for-second-cn-235




Actually BD already has brought the CASA C-295W which is the Spanish version of the CN 235 plane.

I think it is possible that more will be brought in the future and would prefer if BD choose the Indonesian version next time.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Dude,I can say you are a Western fanboy, see where this is leading to?
> At least I provided actual evidence of J-10A/C versus Gripen C exercises in Thailand to back up my points.


"Dude", there is no equivalence here. We are debating proven vs unproven technology.
You are trying to wish Chinese fighter tech into superiority.
The claims of J-10s beating Gripens are all being made by Chinese parties. The Thais are not confirming any such claims. You have not "backed up" squat.
I am even ignoring the fact that the Thais would not expose Gripen's EW systems to the Chinese.
Does that mean J-10s are not superior to Gripens in WVR engagements? No! It means we do not know!
As for proving Gripen, if the wide export base of this jet spread across multiple countries, that have multiple options open, and little complaints is not evidence enough for you, nothing will ever be.




UKBengali said:


> Now how did you rank in your school cohort, especially at mathematics, will highlight why you are utterly wrong and thinking at such a shallow level?


I excelled in the *UKBengali School of Mathematics*:
"2+2 today may equal 4 but with the big vision of BD government in place, it will equal 5 by next year and 6 by 2030."

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Why you say that?
> 
> Most fights in modern aerial warfare are BVR no?
> 
> BD is large enough that it's fighters will not be based so close to Indian border that WVR action will be the norm as far as I can see.
> 
> Btw, I was not that impressed with Gripen C beating the 1980s-era J-11A 41:9 in BVR combat back in 2015 Thai-China exercises. The Gripen C had both a missile advantage (80km AMRAAM versus 50 km R-77) and also a radar 20 years newer than the old Russian fighter.
> 
> Hmmm, that makes me wonder just how would J-10C really stack up against Rafale, especially when you consider the high-altitude speed and manouverability advantage the Chinese fighter has over the French one.
> J-10C could well be competitive enough to neutralise Rafale.


Bd will have to stay within its airspace if it chooses to cross into the Indian airspace and strike their targets it would risk going into an enemy rich environment, aircrafts... SAMs everything will be pointed towards what bd sends and not to mention numerical advantage... the best chance for bd will be to follow exactly what the British did against the Germans... home turf deterrence will suit our purpose best and engagements will be WVR if they’re fought on bd airspace
But then that’s given India attempts to invade our airspace which they’ll.
Maneuverability advantage of j10 over rafale is not by much, pilot skill and avionics/ sensors/radars will help between these two

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Delusions of grandeur.
> 
> Stop making Bangladesh into a laughing stock with your ridiculously irrational overconfidence.
> 
> Bangladesh is doing better than years past.
> 
> But it’s still a poor country with a ton of problems.
> 
> Your posts are fuel to the troll fire.



I am sure he is a nice guy in person and patriotic. He just needs to reel in his boisterous nationalistic chest thumping a little bit.

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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> I am sure he is a nice guy in person and patriotic. He just needs to reel in his boisterous nationalistic chest thumping a little bit.



I mean no offense.

Just trying to keep it real.

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## UKBengali

Al-Ansar said:


> "Dude", there is no equivalence here. We are debating proven vs unproven technology here.
> You are trying to wish Chinese fighter tech into superiority.
> The claims of J-10s beating Gripens are all being made by Chinese parties. The Thais are not confirming no such claims. You have not "backed up" squat.
> I am even ignoring the fact that the Thais would not expose Gripen's EW systems to the Chinese.
> Does that mean J-10s are not superior to Gripens in WVR engagements? No! It means we do not know!
> As for proving Gripen, if the wide export base of this jet among countries thar have multiple options open is not evidence enough for you, nothing would be.




It works both ways as far as exposing each other's EW systems to each other.

I am not wishing Chinese fighter tech into any superiority here.

Here are the FACTs and let us go from here:

2000s Gripen C with 80km range AMRAAM beat 1980s J-11A with 50km range R-77s in BVR but lost heavily in WVR.

This is hardly a Chinese source:

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...ers-in-beyond-visual-range-combat-simulations

"The exercises saw the PLA deploy Soviet Su-27SK air superiority fighters against Thai Gripen C light multirole jets"

WVR:

"Had the Su-27, even in its weakest and oldest variant, not won overwhelmingly against the Thai Gripens in visual range combat, it would have raised very serious questions regarding the quality of Chinese pilots. As it was, the Flankers shot down 16 Swedish built jets for zero of their own number - a predictable result considering the massive discrepancy in flight performance. A second day of visual range engagements reportedly saw the Gripens perform slightly better, downing one Chinese Flanker for nine losses. This gave a kill ratio of 25:1 in favour of the Chinese Flankers"

BVR:

"Thus overall the Gripens enjoyed a highly favourable ratio in beyond visual range combat - downing 19 Su-27s for a loss of just three of their own."

So 2000s Gripen C with 80km range AMRAAM wins 19:3 against 1980s J-11A with 50km R-77 in BVR. Would anyone had expected any different if the opposing fighter to Gripen C was a F-16A with AMRAMM A?.

If anything you are the one that is a Western fanboy and I seem to be more impartial here.



Michael Corleone said:


> Bd will have to stay within its airspace if it chooses to cross into the Indian airspace and strike their targets it would risk going into an enemy rich environment, aircrafts... SAMs everything will be pointed towards what bd sends and not to mention numerical advantage... the best chance for bd will be to follow exactly what the British did against the Germans... home turf deterrence will suit our purpose best and engagements will be WVR if they’re fought on bd airspace
> But then that’s given India attempts to invade our airspace which they’ll.
> Maneuverability advantage of j10 over rafale is not by much, pilot skill and avionics/ sensors/radars will help between these two




I do not understand why you keep saying that fighters equipped with BVR weapons will fight WVR?

If you can get a radar lock and have missiles within range, then surely that is the way you fight? BD is not that small that as soon as Indian fighters come near BD it will be a WVR encounter.

Yes there will be circumstances where this is required but most fighting with modern 4+ gen planes will surely be BVR.

The way I see it this is the matchup between Rafale and J-10C:

1. Manuverabiilty - J-10C wins
2. Missile - Rafale wins
3. Electronics - Rafale wins.


I think 1. and 2. cancels each other out.
So how much superior 3. is will decide the advantage that Rafale has over J-10C.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> I do not understand why you keep saying that fighters equipped with BVR weapons will fight WVR?
> 
> If you can get a radar lock and have missiles within range, then surely that is the way you fight? BD is not that small that as soon as Indian fighters come near BD it will be a WVR encounter.
> 
> Yes there will be circumstances where this is required but most fighting with modern 4+ gen planes will surely be BVR.
> 
> The way I see it this is the matchup between Rafale and J-10C:
> 
> 1. Manuverabiilty - J-10C wins
> 2. Missile - Rafale wins
> 3. Electronics - Rafale wins.
> 
> 
> I think 1. and 2. cancels each other out.
> So how much superior 3. is will decide the advantage that Rafale has over J-10C.


Because they’ll. WVR is not obsolete as the west would have you believe. It’s very much a major portion of training as a fighter pilot. 
Onto the second para, no but with the established ADIZ I’m sure Bangladesh will scramble as soon as jets take off in Indian territory 
Third para, again this is not up to us, but how situations present themselves 

no comment on which fighter jet is winning 


UKBengali said:


> If anything you are the one that is a Western fanboy and I seem to be more impartial here


Ouch that hurts


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> no comment on which fighter jet is winning



Exactly my point - J-10C has chance against Rafale and so should seriously be considered by BAF if they want a 4th gen aircraft now that is reliable against India.

A lot of people are jumping on the Western bandwagon but forget that those planes will only be reliable against MAF. They _think _that as long as it is "self defence" then BAF can fire freely at IAF aircraft.

There are so many things wrong with this line of thinking.

For a start there could be a scenario 15-20 years down the line where BAF needs to take offensive action for one reason or another against India pre-emptively to defend itself, or IAF "asks" BD to allow it's fighters to cross BD airspace to fight say China and USA makes it clear to BD that it cannot try to stop IAF as otherwise it will sanction the fleet of fighters that USA has supplied.
BD has no choice but to comply as it's whole fighter fleet is from USA.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Exactly my point - J-10C has chance against Rafale and so should seriously be considered by BAF if they want a 4th gen aircraft now that is reliable against India.
> 
> A lot of people are jumping on the Western bandwagon but forget that those planes will only be reliable against MAF. They _think _that as long as it is "self defence" then BAF can fire freely at IAF aircraft.
> 
> There are so many things wrong with this line of thinking.
> 
> For a start there could be a scenario 15-20 years down the line where BAF needs to take offensive action for one reason or another against India pre-emptively to defend itself, or IAF "asks" BD to allow it's fighters to cross BD airspace to fight say China and USA makes it clear to BD that it cannot try to stop IAF as otherwise it will sanction the fleet of fighters that USA has supplied.
> BD has no choice but to comply as it's whole fighter fleet is from USA.


And that’s why your thinking is wrong because Bangladesh foreign policy does not allow to wage war against another nation war can only be fought to defend the nation and as such manage will never be aggressive party or the first one to attack or Declare war.

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> And that’s why your thinking is wrong because Bangladesh foreign policy does not allow to wage war against another nation war can only be fought to defend the nation and as such manage will never be aggressive party or the first one to attack or Declare war.




Have you not ever heard of "pre-emptive strike" as self-defence? Sometimes you need to attack first as otherwise you have no chance to succeed if you wait to be attacked.

If BAF ends up with a 100% USA fighter fleet, then the USA will decide what it considers "self-defence" to be.

My point is that BD should be looking at BAF acquisitions to maximise it's sovereignty and so sourcing it's fighters from one source is the height of folly.

BD is a nation of 165 million that will peak at 180-200 million people in 10-15 years and so has the mass to be relatively sovereign in the long run as long as it wants that.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Have you not ever heard of "pre-emptive strike" as self-defence? Sometimes you need to attack first as otherwise you have no chance to succeed if you wait to be attacked.
> 
> If BAF ends up with a 100% USA fighter fleet, then the USA will decide what it considers "self-defence" to be.
> 
> My point is that BD should be looking at BAF acquisitions to maximise it's sovereignty and so sourcing it's fighters from one source is the height of folly.
> 
> BD is a nation of 165 million that will peak at 180-200 million people in 10-15 years and so has the mass to be relatively sovereign in the long run as long as it wants that.


European and Chinese mix is the way to go. Unless you wanna invest heavily in f16 program and get them to move their factory to bd... then US will not care if Bangladesh chooses preemptive strike as an option to defend itself

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> European and Chinese mix is the way to go. Unless you wanna invest heavily in f16 program and get them to move their factory to bd... then US will not care if Bangladesh chooses preemptive strike as an option to defend itself



Problem with European option is that all available options are really, really expensive as Gripen option is ruled out as US wants BD to buy US fighters.

Myanmar is the more immediate threat and BAF needs to be armed for this now and only refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s are affordable as far as I can see.

Sometimes I wish that BD government would just bite the bullet and increase defence spending a little to allow BAF to be properly equipped.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Problem with European option is that all available options are really, really expensive as Gripen option is ruled out as US wants BD to buy US fighters.
> 
> Myanmar is the more immediate threat and BAF needs to be armed for this now and only refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s are affordable as far as I can see.
> 
> Sometimes I wish that BD government would just bite the bullet and increase defence spending a little to allow BAF to be properly equipped.


That will have to be done (budget increase)
As for gripens bd can choose them, maritime strike can be American super hornets... America then will not complain since ammunition will also have to be bought
We’re low budget customers, America knows our buying capacity and will accommodate accordingly. However in the future, post 2030 we would seriously have to reconsider our alignment with China, economy will be larger and America won’t like increasing amount of US dollars going over to China for defense spendings

but realistically what I expect is 
16 EFT for now, j31 from 2025 (launch customer) 2x more EFT Squadron along with that till 2030


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> That will have to be done (budget increase)
> As for gripens bd can choose them, maritime strike can be American super hornets... America then will not complain since ammunition will also have to be bought
> We’re low budget customers, America knows our buying capacity and will accommodate accordingly. However in the future, post 2030 we would seriously have to reconsider our alignment with China, economy will be larger and America won’t like increasing amount of US dollars going over to China for defense spendings
> 
> but realistically what I expect is
> 16 EFT for now, j31 from 2025 (launch customer) 2x more EFT Squadron along with that till 2030



What you say is realistic in terms of BD financial capacity and would be fantastic if BAF got the J-31 as it would go some way towards negating IAF numbers.

I can accept spending huge treasure on 3 squadrons of EFTs as long as BAF also got J-31.

IAF would literally be crapping in their pants if BAF got the J-31 as they have nothing to counter it's stealth.

BD's real threat is India and so J-31 is the most important over the medium-long term.


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## Tarik Bin Hamza

BAF has enough money to buy Viper bro. Money is not matter now. Matter is which one will be preferred by BAF. 


UKBengali said:


> F-16V is too expensive at 80 million US dollars per plane and BAF needs an aircraft that can freely fire on Indian planes and only Chinese aircraft fit the bill. I doubt USA would give BD f-16V with AIM-120D anyway.
> 
> Let us leave JF-17 Block 3 with PL-15 out for now as even Pakistan does not have it, and like I already said Myanmar probably cannot afford anything more than it has ordered so far as it has puny 70 billion US dollar economy.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> What you say is realistic in terms of BD financial capacity and would be fantastic if BAF got the J-31 as it would go some way towards negating IAF numbers.
> 
> I can accept spending huge treasure on 3 squadrons of EFTs as long as BAF also got J-31.
> 
> IAF would literally be crapping in their pants if BAF got the J-31 as they have nothing to counter it's stealth.
> 
> BD's real threat is India and so J-31 is the most important over the medium-long term.


Tbh if countering India is the concern... EFT is an overkill for Burma... a mix of the assets will always be used. For Burma that mix may mean more of the affordable fighters


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## leonblack08

*Upgradation of Mig 29 B/UB*






_Source: Defence Technology of Bangladesh_

DTB has explained that R27T1 can be fired from the Mig-29 UB even though it doesn't have radar, by using IRST.
Any thoughts on this?

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## UKBengali

leonblack08 said:


> *Upgradation of Mig 29 B/UB*
> 
> View attachment 607800
> 
> _Source: Defence Technology of Bangladesh_
> 
> DTB has explained that R27T1 can be fired from the Mig-29 UB even though it doesn't have radar, by using IRST.
> Any thoughts on this?




R27T-series are infra-red homing and so can be launched using IRST and then the IR seeker in the missile can guide itself to the target.

It is possible but how effective a 1980s Russian IRST and IR seeker on R27T is the big question.

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

6xYakolev Yak-130 AJT/Light Fighter of Bangladesh Air Force performing aerial attack demonstration in annual winter Exercise "WINTEX 2017"

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## Dazzler

Hope the pilot is safe, never good sight...


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## leonblack08

Dazzler said:


> Hope the pilot is safe, never good sight...



Unfortunately not.
There was a malfunction in the rocket pod and the pilot died in the crash. He was a senior and respected pilot from what I heard.

This is why Bangladeh needs to phase out these F 7s as soon as possible.

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## Bilal9

leonblack08 said:


> Unfortunately not.
> There was a malfunction in the rocket pod and the pilot died in the crash. He was a senior and respected pilot from what I heard.
> 
> This is why Bangladeh needs to phase out these F 7s as soon as possible.



Inna lillahey wa inna ilaihey raji-oon.

He was a courageus sky-warrior knowing full well the risks of his profession and carried on in spite of it. May Allah grant him Jannah.

I agree that we have to phase out the F-7's ASAP.

Looked like the rocket pod exploded catastrophically (maybe because of a jammed rocket) and took out that whole one wing. See how he was spinning on axis before he hit the ground. Sad.

We have agents of RAW working in and outside Bangladesh making sure we never have a strong air wing. If you don't have air superiority - your tanks and infantry are just missile fodder.

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## bluesky

UKBengali said:


> It is such a reliable engine on the Gripen E that you do not really need any more than a few spares.
> 
> GE engines last as long as the airframe on fighters.


This is what I found very promising about Gripen E.

*"Gripen E*, will have a *cost* from around 100 million us dollar, to 130 million us dollar (Brasil). So, *Gripen* will *cost* more to *buy*, than an F-35 A model. The maintenance *cost* is lower for *Gripen E* / *NG* than for F-35. So, it is less expensive to operate an airwing of *Gripen E*, compered to an airwing of F-35 A".

Now, read about the capability of BVR missiles below. It says BVR capability is not a formula for sure success and close combat/dogfight will remain the main way of air fighting. BVR missiles must be supported by other electronic devices on the ground and air．Lacking them, BAF should train its pilots more on dogfighting. Note that after BVR missiles are fired and miss out, the planes from both sides come close that requires dogfighting. 

"During the Gulf War, the US Air Force launched AIM-7M and AIM-120 medium-range air-to-air missile for BVR attack under the condition of "one-way transparency", but the *hitting rate was less than 30 percent".*


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## Dazzler

leonblack08 said:


> Unfortunately not.
> There was a malfunction in the rocket pod and the pilot died in the crash. He was a senior and respected pilot from what I heard.
> 
> This is why Bangladeh needs to phase out these F 7s as soon as possible.



PG/BGs are fairly new frames, but such things can happen. Overall, in PAF at least, PGs are known to be pretty reliable. 

RIP to the pilot.

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## The Ronin



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## Michael Corleone

Dazzler said:


> Hope the pilot is safe, never good sight...


He unfortunately died. One of the senior pilots in BAF, he was trained on sukhoi along with the chief... the funny part is the chief flew that exact same aircraft a week before this... nothing was wrong with the plane... crashed when the rocket pods bursted in flames and took out the wing


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## UKBengali

bluesky said:


> This is what I found very promising about Gripen E.
> 
> *"Gripen E*, will have a *cost* from around 100 million us dollar, to 130 million us dollar (Brasil). So, *Gripen* will *cost* more to *buy*, than an F-35 A model. The maintenance *cost* is lower for *Gripen E* / *NG* than for F-35. So, it is less expensive to operate an airwing of *Gripen E*, compered to an airwing of F-35 A".
> 
> Now, read about the capability of BVR missiles below. It says BVR capability is not a formula for sure success and close combat/dogfight will remain the main way of air fighting. BVR missiles must be supported by other electronic devices on the ground and air．Lacking them, BAF should train its pilots more on dogfighting. Note that after BVR missiles are fired and miss out, the planes from both sides come close that requires dogfighting.
> 
> "During the Gulf War, the US Air Force launched AIM-7M and AIM-120 medium-range air-to-air missile for BVR attack under the condition of "one-way transparency", but the *hitting rate was less than 30 percent".*




BVR missiles have become much more lethal since the Gulf War back in 1991.

So 1 missile has a hit rate of 30%, you "ripple-fire" them to almost guarantee a BVR kill.

You are right that pilots still need to train for WVR combat but most air-to-air engagements with 4.5/5th gen fighters will be BVR.


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## UKBengali

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> The best option for BAF is Thunder!
> 
> Already battle proven with outstanding performance against IAF Mirage2000.
> 
> But it is not just the fighter aircraft ..it is the* entire ecosystem*... BAF needs to improve.
> 
> *With $5Bln BAF can lace itself with a very potent airforce* ...
> 
> *Blk3 is just one more step in the evolution of Thunder*..future blocks will becoming!!!




No as BAF wants an absolute advantage over both MAF and IAF over the medium-long term in aircraft quality.
JF-17 Block 3 is still inferior to Rafale. J-10C is reputedly 40 million US dollars per plane and so only a little more expensive than block 3 and is a larger and better air-to-air fighter than JF-17.

BD is no longer destitute and has a 5 billion US dollar defence budget growing at 7-8% a year in real terms. Money is there and so best for go for the highest performing aircraft.


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> He unfortunately died. One of the senior pilots in BAF, he was trained on sukhoi along with the chief... the funny part is the chief flew that exact same aircraft a week before this... nothing was wrong with the plane... crashed when the rocket pods bursted in flames and took out the wing


Very tragic news regarding the pilot....

However it is not in the interest of indians and fast food shops of dhaka that our overweight and incompetent BAF chief meets an untimely end.


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## bluesky

UKBengali said:


> BVR missiles have become much more lethal since the Gulf War back in 1991.
> 
> So 1 missile has a hit rate of 30%, you "ripple-fire" them to almost guarantee a BVR kill.
> 
> You are right that pilots still need to train for WVR combat but most air-to-air engagements with 4.5/5th gen fighters will be BVR.


BVR missiles have become a necessity but it is not that functional in areal war. With a 30% hit rate you need 4 missiles to target one plane. But, how many missiles are there in a single plane? BVR is not something like a TV game in practice. No longstanding war has yet proved the necessity of BVR.

So, whatever may be the trend, countries which have developed BVR capable jets have themselves also simultaneously taken care of training their pilots to do old-time dogfighting.

By the way, I am of opinion that BAF, BA or BN should opt for defensive war training. We just do not have the economic muscle or technology teeth to wage offensive wars, at least not against India. Even Pakistan, with so strong capacity, cannot do so. However, local wars are different and people all will fight if India tries to defeat us in an offensive war. India cannot win in our land.

This is why we should acquire defensive weapons like missiles (short, medium and long) that will keep our land and sky safe. 

Anyway, this is an opinion from a novice.


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## UKBengali

bluesky said:


> BVR missiles have become a necessity but it is not that functional in areal war. With a 30% hit rate you need 4 missiles to target one plane. But, how many missiles are there in a single plane? BVR is not something like a TV game in practice. No longstanding war has yet proved the necessity of BVR.
> 
> So, whatever may be the trend, countries which have developed BVR capable jets have themselves also simultaneously taken care of training their pilots to do old-time dogfighting.
> 
> By the way, I am of opinion that BAF, BA or BN should opt for defensive war training. We just do not have the economic muscle or technology teeth to wage offensive wars, at least not against India. Even Pakistan, with so strong capacity, cannot do so. However, local wars are different and people all will fight if India tries to defeat us in an offensive war. India cannot win in our land.
> 
> This is why we should acquire defensive weapons like missiles (short, medium and long) that will keep our land and sky safe.
> 
> Anyway, this is an opinion from a novice.




Just look at the recent Turkish downing of Syrian jets using BVR missiles and they did not fire lots missiles to successfully down each plane.


BD best bet to deter India is to have enough forces to be able to cut-off the "chicken neck" and be able to cause massive destruction and casualties to Indian forces in NE region.


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Very tragic news regarding the pilot....
> 
> However it is not in the interest of indians and fast food shops of dhaka that our overweight and incompetent BAF chief meets an untimely end.


The overweight dude have retired. Serniabat is a cool dude, he still carries on flying duty regularly



bluesky said:


> BVR missiles have become a necessity but it is not that functional in areal war. With a 30% hit rate you need 4 missiles to target one plane. But, how many missiles are there in a single plane? BVR is not something like a TV game in practice. No longstanding war has yet proved the necessity of BVR.
> 
> So, whatever may be the trend, countries which have developed BVR capable jets have themselves also simultaneously taken care of training their pilots to do old-time dogfighting.
> 
> By the way, I am of opinion that BAF, BA or BN should opt for defensive war training. We just do not have the economic muscle or technology teeth to wage offensive wars, at least not against India. Even Pakistan, with so strong capacity, cannot do so. However, local wars are different and people all will fight if India tries to defeat us in an offensive war. India cannot win in our land.
> 
> This is why we should acquire defensive weapons like missiles (short, medium and long) that will keep our land and sky safe.
> 
> Anyway, this is an opinion from a novice.


Bangladesh’s defense posture doesn’t seem to be of having offensive capability but maintaining a deterrence. To me it seems india overestimates it’s own capability 
As for the BVR missiles, let’s not forget newer missiles like meteor. Maybe you don’t need 4 missiles for one target anymore. Maybe just 2... we would need to see that play out on war to judge if BVR is the way of the future with WVR going out of its way...

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## bluesky

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh’s defense posture doesn’t seem to be of having offensive capability but maintaining a deterrence. To me it seems india overestimates it’s own capability
> As for the BVR missiles, let’s not forget newer missiles like meteor. Maybe you don’t need 4 missiles for one target anymore. Maybe just 2... we would need to see that play out on war to judge if BVR is the way of the future with WVR going out of its way...


Meteor missiles or what, there is no guarantee of hitting a target plane. When BVR missiles run to the target, the target plane blocks it by electronic means from being hit and at the same time it itself flies to the source of missile. 

It is only 2.5 minutes for it to cover the distance of 40 km even at a low speed of 1000 kph. Finally, it is a dogfight between the two. 

Another point. An enemy plane enters our airspace either to destroy our land-based assets such as industries or heavy weapons like planes, tanks, missile batteries, and others. It is wiser to defend the assets more with land-based short, medium and long-range missiles. The country should spend money to equip the military with these weapons systems.


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> Meteor missiles or what, there is no guarantee of hitting a target plane. When BVR missiles run to the target, the target plane blocks it by electronic means from being hit and at the same time it itself flies to the source of missile.
> 
> It is only 2.5 minutes for it to cover the distance of 40 km even at a low speed of 1000 kph. Finally, it is a dogfight between the two.
> 
> Another point. An enemy plane enters our airspace either to destroy our land-based assets such as industries or heavy weapons like planes, tanks, missile batteries, and others. It is wiser to defend the assets more with land-based short, medium and long-range missiles. The country should spend money to equip the military with these weapons systems.


You’re the one who’s saying BVR o matter what fails but then goes on to suggest land based missiles to defend assets? Don’t you know those can be overwhelmed too but concentrated environment


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## bluesky

Michael Corleone said:


> You’re the one who’s saying BVR o matter what fails but then goes on to suggest land based missiles to defend assets? Don’t you know those can be overwhelmed too but concentrated environment


I am talking against fully depending on BVR missiles, I am not saying that BVR missiles should not be fired. My point is it is not a sure success and people love to believe it is invincible.

I believe that three-layer land-based missile batteries may have a better chance with a greater number of missile stocks. Some of these missiles will go astray not to hit the planes but there will be a continuous barrage of missile attacks until the enemy planes are repulsed.

Note also the missile batteries are not always placed in fixed points. It can be placed on four-wheel vehicles that will be on move during an attack. Enemy planes cannot easily target moving vehicles. BVR/planes are too expensive but land-based missile batteries are not.

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## Tanveer666

Dazzler said:


> Hope the pilot is safe, never good sight...


When did this crash happen? On the ground it says "some exercise 2018"


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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> I am talking against fully depending on BVR missiles, I am not saying that BVR missiles should not be fired. My point is it is not a sure success and people love to believe it is invincible.
> 
> I believe that three-layer land-based missile batteries may have a better chance with a greater number of missile stocks. Some of these missiles will also go astray and will not hit the planes but there will be a continuous barrage of missile attacks until the enemy planes are repulsed.
> 
> Note also the missile batteries are not always placed in fixed points. It also can be placed on four-wheel vehicles that will be on move during an attack. Enemy planes cannot easily target moving vehicles. BVR/planes are too expensive but land-based missile batteries are not.


I agree with your line of thought

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## ghost250

Bangladesh Air Force to receive Chinese made Wing Loong-II MALE UAV according to Chinese media...

Bangladesh Air Force is about to get the delivery of Wing Loong-II UCAV which was tendered in 2017.

The competitors were CH-4B and Turkish Byrakter TB-2 and finally Wing Loong-II won the tender.

Translation of news- Bangladesh Air Force to receive Chinese pterosaur 2 drone

Libyan battlefield Chinese Pterodactyl-2 reconnaissance and combat integrated drones have completely suppressed Turkey's Bayraktar TB2 drones, which also constituted an overwhelming advantage in the international drone market. First, Indonesia rejected the Bayraktar TB2 drone to choose the Chinese CH-4 drone, and now there are news that the Bangladesh Air Force UAV project also eliminated the Bayraktar TB2 drone, and the Chinese Wing Long 2 drone won.

In 2017, the Bangladesh Air Force proposed the Medium- and Long-Term Aircraft Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (MALE) project, requiring the purchase of a new generation of reconnaissance and combat integrated drones. In order to improve the Bangladesh Air Force's reconnaissance, surveillance and intelligence capabilities, these drones are also required to be used for non-traditional combat operations, so that the Bangladesh Air Force can deal with diversified threats.

*https://m.sohu.com/a/346347303_99900839/?pvid=000115_3w_a*

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## xbat

Bayraktar TB2 and WL2 are not at same class. TB2 is a Tactical UAV while WL2 is MALE class. You need to compare ANKA S with WL2 but of course ANKA is expensive.

BTW there is no overwhelming or suppress over TB2 that is chineese propaganda, in libya one side has Fighter aircrafts ,AD systems and drones other side only had TB2s . so they are able to shot down TB2s.

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## Nike

ghost250 said:


> Bangladesh Air Force to receive Chinese made Wing Loong-II MALE UAV according to Chinese media...
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force is about to get the delivery of Wing Loong-II UCAV which was tendered in 2017.
> 
> The competitors were CH-4B and Turkish Byrakter TB-2 and finally Wing Loong-II won the tender.
> 
> Translation of news- Bangladesh Air Force to receive Chinese pterosaur 2 drone
> 
> Libyan battlefield Chinese Pterodactyl-2 reconnaissance and combat integrated drones have completely suppressed Turkey's Bayraktar TB2 drones, which also constituted an overwhelming advantage in the international drone market. First, Indonesia rejected the Bayraktar TB2 drone to choose the Chinese CH-4 drone, and now there are news that the Bangladesh Air Force UAV project also eliminated the Bayraktar TB2 drone, and the Chinese Wing Long 2 drone won.
> 
> In 2017, the Bangladesh Air Force proposed the Medium- and Long-Term Aircraft Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (MALE) project, requiring the purchase of a new generation of reconnaissance and combat integrated drones. In order to improve the Bangladesh Air Force's reconnaissance, surveillance and intelligence capabilities, these drones are also required to be used for non-traditional combat operations, so that the Bangladesh Air Force can deal with diversified threats.
> 
> *https://m.sohu.com/a/346347303_99900839/?pvid=000115_3w_a*



Not Bayraktar TB2, TAI offered their Anka, including Anka S. But the price is premium!!! 

*Anka for Indonesia? [ID18D1]*

06 November 2018
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RSS







In an obvious push to further promote its flagship medium-altitude, long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) to Indonesia, Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI, Stand A050M, Turkey pavilion) has a full-sized model of its Anka on display here at the show.

Proudly sitting in the corner of Hall B1, the aircraft is here just three months after TAI announced it is seeking opportunities to collaborate with Indonesian industry in order to pitch Anka for a local tender.

TAI has said it will modify the system as needed to meet any specific requirements Indonesia may have, and will do so by incorporating local suppliers into the supply chain. This co-operation will not be limited to UAVs, but will also be open to other potential markets and requirements.

Anka is being displayed with its satellite communications capability, as well as a weapons fit including Roketsan’s 22kg MAM-L Smart Micro Munition. The UAV has a 17.3m wingspan, a 200kg payload capacity, and an endurance of some 24 hours.

https://www.janes.com/article/84335/anka-for-indonesia-id18d1

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1406008076242765

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## The Ronin

Ex Royal Air Force Lockheed C-130J C.5 ZH882 towed from the mechanical bay into the paint shop to receive the Bangladesh Air Force markings (presumably, 99-5480, S3-AGG). It is the third of five ex RAF C.5 aircraft destined for Bangladesh.

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## The Ronin

Google Translation:

BANGLADESH OFFICIALLY INTERESTED IN THE DASSAULT AVIATION RAFALE.

A few years ago, such information would have been a joke. *At the end of the official trip to Bangladesh by Mrs. Florence Parly, Minister for the Armed Forces, it was clearly indicated that this Asian country was considering the acquisition of a batch of ten Dassault Aviation Rafale combat aircraft .* The French jet would allow this small air force to make a real technological leap forward . A purchase which would be part of a Bangladeshi logic of modernization of its military aviation .

It was from Sunday 8 to Monday 9 March 2020 that the French minister was in Bangladesh. The opportunity for her to meet the highest officials of this Asian country such as Mrs. Sheikh Hasina, Prime Minister and Minister of Defense. Ms. Parly was able to officially present a French proposal around the fighter plane. In fact the local authorities have been interested for several months in the Dassault Aviation Rafale .

It would be for the Bangladeshi aviation to modernize in depth through fifteen copies of the French omnirole hunter. *We are talking about twelve Rafale C single-seaters and three Rafale B operational transformation two-seaters .* Planes that would effectively replace the oldest Chengdu F-7s of Chinese origin in service for around thirty years.
Above all this logic of all-round modernization of the Bangladesh Air Force began four years ago with the delivery of advanced training and tactical support Yakovlev Yak-130 jets purchased in Russia. It continued with the sale by the United Kingdom of C-130J Super Herculessecond hand, but still having very good potential. The Rafale would therefore be the icing on the cake.

Like the negotiations with Indonesia, these talks, which begin in Bangladesh, demonstrate that France has not given up selling its omnirole hunter. The Rafale has arguments, it is combat proven , and above all it is appreciated by the pilots who fly on it.
Witness the tripartite duel he is leading in Finland .
A sale of fifteen Rafales to Bangladesh would be truly historic. This country has in fact used only a few French aircraft in its history apart from Alouette III and CM.170 Magister . His army currently has two Dolphins 2 .

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## Tanveer666

The Ronin said:


> Google Translation:
> 
> BANGLADESH OFFICIALLY INTERESTED IN THE DASSAULT AVIATION RAFALE.
> 
> A few years ago, such information would have been a joke. *At the end of the official trip to Bangladesh by Mrs. Florence Parly, Minister for the Armed Forces, it was clearly indicated that this Asian country was considering the acquisition of a batch of ten Dassault Aviation Rafale combat aircraft .* The French jet would allow this small air force to make a real technological leap forward . A purchase which would be part of a Bangladeshi logic of modernization of its military aviation .
> 
> It was from Sunday 8 to Monday 9 March 2020 that the French minister was in Bangladesh. The opportunity for her to meet the highest officials of this Asian country such as Mrs. Sheikh Hasina, Prime Minister and Minister of Defense. Ms. Parly was able to officially present a French proposal around the fighter plane. In fact the local authorities have been interested for several months in the Dassault Aviation Rafale .
> 
> It would be for the Bangladeshi aviation to modernize in depth through fifteen copies of the French omnirole hunter. *We are talking about twelve Rafale C single-seaters and three Rafale B operational transformation two-seaters .* Planes that would effectively replace the oldest Chengdu F-7s of Chinese origin in service for around thirty years.
> Above all this logic of all-round modernization of the Bangladesh Air Force began four years ago with the delivery of advanced training and tactical support Yakovlev Yak-130 jets purchased in Russia. It continued with the sale by the United Kingdom of C-130J Super Herculessecond hand, but still having very good potential. The Rafale would therefore be the icing on the cake.
> 
> Like the negotiations with Indonesia, these talks, which begin in Bangladesh, demonstrate that France has not given up selling its omnirole hunter. The Rafale has arguments, it is combat proven , and above all it is appreciated by the pilots who fly on it.
> Witness the tripartite duel he is leading in Finland .
> A sale of fifteen Rafales to Bangladesh would be truly historic. This country has in fact used only a few French aircraft in its history apart from Alouette III and CM.170 Magister . His army currently has two Dolphins 2 .


Niece


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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> Google Translation:
> 
> BANGLADESH OFFICIALLY INTERESTED IN THE DASSAULT AVIATION RAFALE.
> 
> A few years ago, such information would have been a joke. *At the end of the official trip to Bangladesh by Mrs. Florence Parly, Minister for the Armed Forces, it was clearly indicated that this Asian country was considering the acquisition of a batch of ten Dassault Aviation Rafale combat aircraft .* The French jet would allow this small air force to make a real technological leap forward . A purchase which would be part of a Bangladeshi logic of modernization of its military aviation .
> 
> It was from Sunday 8 to Monday 9 March 2020 that the French minister was in Bangladesh. The opportunity for her to meet the highest officials of this Asian country such as Mrs. Sheikh Hasina, Prime Minister and Minister of Defense. Ms. Parly was able to officially present a French proposal around the fighter plane. In fact the local authorities have been interested for several months in the Dassault Aviation Rafale .
> 
> It would be for the Bangladeshi aviation to modernize in depth through fifteen copies of the French omnirole hunter. *We are talking about twelve Rafale C single-seaters and three Rafale B operational transformation two-seaters .* Planes that would effectively replace the oldest Chengdu F-7s of Chinese origin in service for around thirty years.
> Above all this logic of all-round modernization of the Bangladesh Air Force began four years ago with the delivery of advanced training and tactical support Yakovlev Yak-130 jets purchased in Russia. It continued with the sale by the United Kingdom of C-130J Super Herculessecond hand, but still having very good potential. The Rafale would therefore be the icing on the cake.
> 
> Like the negotiations with Indonesia, these talks, which begin in Bangladesh, demonstrate that France has not given up selling its omnirole hunter. The Rafale has arguments, it is combat proven , and above all it is appreciated by the pilots who fly on it.
> Witness the tripartite duel he is leading in Finland .
> A sale of fifteen Rafales to Bangladesh would be truly historic. This country has in fact used only a few French aircraft in its history apart from Alouette III and CM.170 Magister . His army currently has two Dolphins 2 .




No EFT is better..... buy british

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## bluesky

mb444 said:


> No EFT is better..... buy british


I wonder how it is possible to claim that BAF will induct french planes. Only a few days ago its minister of military visited BD. How come Rafael has been finalized? Traditionally BD has better trade and diplomatic relationship with Britain than with France. Either we buy British or American planes.

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## Tanveer666

bluesky said:


> I wonder how it is possible to claim that BAF will induct french planes. Only a few days ago its minister of military visited BD. How come Rafael has been finalized? Traditionally BD has better trade and diplomatic relationship with Britain than with France. Either we buy British or American planes.


I don't think it has been finalized per se, but rather both parties have shown interest about the procurement

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Google Translation:
> 
> BANGLADESH OFFICIALLY INTERESTED IN THE DASSAULT AVIATION RAFALE.
> 
> A few years ago, such information would have been a joke. *At the end of the official trip to Bangladesh by Mrs. Florence Parly, Minister for the Armed Forces, it was clearly indicated that this Asian country was considering the acquisition of a batch of ten Dassault Aviation Rafale combat aircraft .* The French jet would allow this small air force to make a real technological leap forward . A purchase which would be part of a Bangladeshi logic of modernization of its military aviation .
> 
> It was from Sunday 8 to Monday 9 March 2020 that the French minister was in Bangladesh. The opportunity for her to meet the highest officials of this Asian country such as Mrs. Sheikh Hasina, Prime Minister and Minister of Defense. Ms. Parly was able to officially present a French proposal around the fighter plane. In fact the local authorities have been interested for several months in the Dassault Aviation Rafale .
> 
> It would be for the Bangladeshi aviation to modernize in depth through fifteen copies of the French omnirole hunter. *We are talking about twelve Rafale C single-seaters and three Rafale B operational transformation two-seaters .* Planes that would effectively replace the oldest Chengdu F-7s of Chinese origin in service for around thirty years.
> Above all this logic of all-round modernization of the Bangladesh Air Force began four years ago with the delivery of advanced training and tactical support Yakovlev Yak-130 jets purchased in Russia. It continued with the sale by the United Kingdom of C-130J Super Herculessecond hand, but still having very good potential. The Rafale would therefore be the icing on the cake.
> 
> Like the negotiations with Indonesia, these talks, which begin in Bangladesh, demonstrate that France has not given up selling its omnirole hunter. The Rafale has arguments, it is combat proven , and above all it is appreciated by the pilots who fly on it.
> Witness the tripartite duel he is leading in Finland .
> A sale of fifteen Rafales to Bangladesh would be truly historic. This country has in fact used only a few French aircraft in its history apart from Alouette III and CM.170 Magister . His army currently has two Dolphins 2 .


Not happening. Airforce officials said, French are interested in selling but this aircraft wasn’t in their consideration at all. Regardless BAF is not interested in rafale

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## Tanveer666

Michael Corleone said:


> Airforce officials said, French are interested in selling but this aircraft wasn’t in their consideration at all


Any source for that?


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## Avicenna

That this in even in the realm of possibilities is progress.

That being said, Eurofighter or SuperHornet all the way!


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## Arthur

No my friends, neither the Brits, nor the Mericans are letting this tender go to the French without a good run!

BD already is s strong market for Boeing, they won't let Europeans to steal it way. Apart from brand new, they can offer retired US surplus. That would be a huge sale & a guaranteed business in after sales service.


Brits on the other hand wants all the business they can get after Brexit. 

Fingers crossed.

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## UKBengali

Arthur said:


> No my friends, neither the Brits, nor the Mericans are letting this tender go to the French without a good run!
> 
> BD already is s strong market for Boeing, they won't let Europeans to steal it way. Apart from brand new, they can offer retired US surplus. That would be a huge sale & a guaranteed business in after sales service.
> 
> 
> Brits on the other hand wants all the business they can get after Brexit.
> 
> Fingers crossed.



Only way that Rafale is coming into BAF service is if the French give it to BD for free!

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## Michael Corleone

Tanveer666 said:


> Any source for that?


Official statements? Nope. Members of the airforce that I know... yes



Arthur said:


> No my friends, neither the Brits, nor the Mericans are letting this tender go to the French without a good run!
> 
> BD already is s strong market for Boeing, they won't let Europeans to steal it way. Apart from brand new, they can offer retired US surplus. That would be a huge sale & a guaranteed business in after sales service.
> 
> 
> Brits on the other hand wants all the business they can get after Brexit.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


Yep, besides the French are having difficulty meeting delivery target deadlines on Indian rafale... they’re not worth the effort


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Not happening. Airforce officials said, French are interested in selling but this aircraft wasn’t in their consideration at all. Regardless BAF is not interested in rafale



Didn't these so called air force officials also published $5 news about "100% CONFIRM" J-10, Su-30, Su-35, Mig-35 becoming backbone of BAF (including so many timelines), delivery of LY-80D etc? Wonder why always BAF officials have time to give them update about every sensitive procurement.

Give it a rest. It's already clear that local sources are not that reliable always specially about MRCA. I don't think any local sources have any idea about MRCA. Even you don't expect anything before 2024. All that's left are those incompetent fucks in BAF to announce it officially, Allah knows when it will be.

And if the rumor is true then why go for second hand aircraft if we can get brand new Rafale with almost the same price. It will take time to get Meteor/AIM-120 so we can use Mica as BVRAAM like IAF.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Didn't these so called air force officials also published $5 news about "100% CONFIRM" J-10, Su-30, Su-35, Mig-35 becoming backbone of BAF (including so many timelines), delivery of LY-80D etc? Wonder why always BAF officials have time to give them update about every sensitive procurement.
> 
> Give it a rest. It's already clear that local sources are not that reliable always specially about MRCA. I don't think any local sources have any idea about MRCA. Even you don't expect anything before 2024. All that's left are those incompetent fucks in BAF to announce it officially, Allah knows when it will be.
> 
> And if the rumor is true then why go for second hand aircraft if we can get brand new Rafale with almost the same price. It will take time to get Meteor/AIM-120 so we can use Mica as BVRAAM like IAF.


Truth be told no one believed anything regarding EFT, I for one was critiquing SAK for this, no one believed him because by then every plane in the book was mentioned. Truth be told, I think these niggas went to every vendor with “saving rokto panir poisha gaan” and hence why the deals fell through or they nearly got screwed with price gouging. 

now that people believe it will be EFT (tbh incompetence can make this fall through too) second hand frames will not cost anywhere near new rafale will cost, heck new EFT will not cost nearly as much as rafale. I hope the only reason no deal has been made is because we’re waiting for clearance to acquire AIM-120D/ Meteor. Who knows. But rafale is something that will not come for sure unless India, pressures Hasina govt in the name of commonality or what not.

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## Avicenna

French interest in selling means to me there is smoke to all this.

Something will be coming.

Not sure what the delays are all about.

In regards to Rafale.......no thanks.

Pointless if the threat is India.

Eurofighters, Super Hornets or Fighting Falcons. (Choose one)

Depending on the choice, there should be some consideration to J-10 or a Chinese model.

Politically this makes the most sense.

Though at this point, perhaps this is impossible given the dance between China and the US.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

It'd be cool if the BAF and PAF can get a joint Typhoon order. If anything, it might at least mean an overlap in overseas training, which could finally warm things up at that level.

That being said, I hope the BAF sticks to only one multi-role fighter for now. If you're going to get the Super Bug, Rafale or Typhoon, just consolidate on 24~32 aircraft, forget the single-engine route entirely. Once you induct the twin-engine MMRCA, wait it out for a FGFA/NGF.

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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It'd be cool if the BAF and PAF can get a joint Typhoon order. If anything, it might at least mean an overlap in overseas training, which could finally warm things up at that level.
> 
> That being said, I hope the BAF sticks to only one multi-role fighter for now. If you're going to get the Super Bug, Rafale or Typhoon, just consolidate on 24~32 aircraft, forget the single-engine route entirely. Once you induct the twin-engine MMRCA, wait it out for a FGFA/NGF.



Would absolutely LOVE BAF and PAF buying Typhoon.

Set up some training in Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/Oman/Qatar. Take your pick!

And while your at it make sure to get some adult diapers for the folks in New Dehli if such a thing were to ever happen.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It'd be cool if the BAF and PAF can get a joint Typhoon order. If anything, it might at least mean an overlap in overseas training, which could finally warm things up at that level.
> 
> That being said, I hope the BAF sticks to only one multi-role fighter for now. If you're going to get the Super Bug, Rafale or Typhoon, just consolidate on 24~32 aircraft, forget the single-engine route entirely. Once you induct the twin-engine MMRCA, wait it out for a FGFA/NGF.


Pakistan plans to buy EFT?  
Anyways I think joint excercise between the airforce will be great


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Pakistan plans to buy EFT?
> Anyways I think joint excercise between the airforce will be great



Possibility if PAF decides to introduce a new 4.5 gen type.

Of course money and politics permitting.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Possibility if PAF decides to introduce a new 4.5 gen type.
> 
> Of course money and politics permitting.




Next to impossible as Pakistan has no money and they will not get loans from UK as they
have little ability to pay it back.

Coronavirus is forcing them to ask for handouts just to feed their poor and so expensive fighters will be last on their minds.





Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> It'd be cool if the BAF anPAF can get a joint Typhoon order. If anything, it might at least mean an overlap in overseas training, which could finally warm things up at that level.
> 
> That being said, I hope the BAF sticks to only one multi-role fighter for now. If you're going to get the Super Bug, Rafale or Typhoon, just consolidate on 24~32 aircraft, forget the single-engine route entirely. Once you induct the twin-engine MMRCA, wait it out for a FGFA/NGF.




Buying a Western 4+ gen fighter at first (will be delayed for who knows how long due to Covoid-19 now) and then inducting a 5th gen fighter later on makes a lot of sense.
Little point buying two 4+ gen fighters that will both start becoming obsolete next decade.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Coronavirus is forcing them to ask for handouts just to feed their poor and so expensive fighters will be last on their minds.


Link please, I’ve not come across this


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## Rahil Ahmed

Do we have any news on the supposed plane that's scheduled for 2021? I cant find anything other than a sentence or two on Wikipedia


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## AMG_12

UKBengali said:


> Next to impossible as Pakistan has no money and they will not get loans from UK as they
> have little ability to pay it back.
> 
> Coronavirus is forcing them to ask for handouts just to feed their poor and so expensive fighters will be last on their minds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buying a Western 4+ gen fighter at first (will be delayed for who knows how long due to Covoid-19 now) and then inducting a 5th gen fighter later on makes a lot of sense.
> Little point buying two 4+ gen fighters that will both start becoming obsolete next decade.


sounds more like a butt-hurt, maybe more knowledgeable members can shed some light on PAF plans @DESERT FIGHTER @Imran Khan

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## DESERT FIGHTER

AMG_12 said:


> sounds more like a butt-hurt, maybe more knowledgeable members can shed some light on PAF plans @DESERT FIGHTER @Imran Khan


Didnt you hear, bangladesh is the next China. They got 5 trillion economy.
Corona virus is only for poor developing nations. Might bangla joy.

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## Michael Corleone

AMG_12 said:


> sounds more like a butt-hurt, maybe more knowledgeable members can shed some light on PAF plans @DESERT FIGHTER @Imran Khan


I wonder why would Pakistan buy EFT at all given they have jf17 and their focus is project azm


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> I wonder why would Pakistan buy EFT at all given they have jf17 and their focus is project azm



Depends on their needs.

They keep getting screwed by the US. Surplus/new build F-16s would have been ideal.

But there's a strong anti-Pakistan lobby/sentiment that prevent this in Congress.

You can thank Indian and Zionist Americans for that one.

Even the prospect of 8 F-16s to PAF during the Obama years made India b#itch.

Regardless, if PAF needs a "stop gap" 4.5 gen new type, then I wish them well.

Further improved Block Thunders and Azm may not be enough depending on Indian procurement.

Anyways, this was addressed in a recent interview with PAF officials; you can find that in another thread here.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/new-fighter-for-paf-doctrine.657721/

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## bluesky

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Didnt you hear, bangladesh is the next China. *They got 5 trillion economy.*
> Corona virus is only for poor developing nations. Might bangla joy.


BD economy will probably reach $1 trillion, if not $5 trillion, sometime in 2050s. However, we expect many hurdles to reach that point. There are many unknown factors that will decide how far the economy will reach.

However, we will not destroy the prospect of a good economy by wasting our hard-earned money to buildup a mighty military that loses all the wars. This is what is happening to the country lying in the west of India where its almighty military eats up more than 50% of national budgets but wins no war.

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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> The economy will probably reach $1 trillion, if not $5 trillion, sometime in 2050s. However, we expect many hurdles to reach that point. There are many unknown factors that will decide how far the economy will reach.
> 
> However, we will not destroy the prospect of a good economy by wasting our hard-earned money to buildup a mighty military that loses all the wars. This is what is happening to the country lying in the west of India where its almighty military eats up more than 50% of national budgets but wins no war.



That country is the only thing standing in the way of Modi and his ilk to impose their Hindutva will on the muslims of South Asia.

At the very least have some respect to that fact.

And the Bangladeshi government?

What an embarrassment in that regards.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

bluesky said:


> The economy will probably reach $1 trillion, if not $5 trillion, sometime in 2050s. However, we expect many hurdles to reach that point. There are many unknown factors that will decide how far the economy will reach.
> 
> However, we will not destroy the prospect of a good economy by wasting our hard-earned money to buildup a mighty military that loses all the wars. This is what is happening to the country lying in the west of India where its almighty military eats up more than 50% of national budgets but wins no war.



Better than bending over and taking modis prick aint it?

As for the figures, did you pull em out of your behind? 

Pakistans national budget is 97 billion USD:

https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/asia...th-no-new-general-sales-taxes-1.1560265638656

Pakistans military budget is around 7.6 billion:
https://www.janes.com/article/89184/pakistan-announces-austerity-driven-defence-budget

Bangladeshs national budget is 62 billion USD.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-06/30/c_138186869.htm

Do the fukin math.

Corona has effected all countries, particularly poor south Asia included. Infact hot shot, south asias hundreds of millions of poor day workers will be the most effected who live below the poverty line. Which is pathetic to say the least.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> That country is the only thing standing in the way of Modi and his ilk to impose their Hindutva will on the muslims of South Asia.
> 
> At the very least have some respect to that fact.
> 
> And the Bangladeshi government?
> 
> What an embarrassment in that regards.


True. If Pakistan falls then goodbye Bangladesh.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Better than bending over and taking modis prick aint it?
> 
> As for the figures, did you pull em out of your behind?
> 
> Pakistans national budget is 97 billion USD:
> 
> https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/asia...th-no-new-general-sales-taxes-1.1560265638656
> 
> Pakistans military budget is around 7.6 billion:
> https://www.janes.com/article/89184/pakistan-announces-austerity-driven-defence-budget
> 
> Bangladeshs national budget is 62 billion USD.
> 
> http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-06/30/c_138186869.htm
> 
> Do the fukin math.
> 
> Corona has effected all countries, particularly poor south Asia included. Infact hot shot, south asias hundreds of millions of poor day workers will be the most effected who live below the poverty line. Which is pathetic to say the least.


Count in debt to GDP, export/import and gdp projected growth

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## bluesky

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Pakistans military budget is around 7.6 billion:
> https://www.janes.com/article/89184/pakistan-announces-austerity-driven-defence-budget


Pakistan's military budget was 11.375 billion dollar in 2018 according to NATO definition. This is more than 42.8% of the national budget which was ($38 billion x 70%) equaling $26.6 billion last fiscal.


DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Better than bending over and taking modis prick aint it?
> 
> As for the figures, did you pull em *out of your behind*?
> 
> Pakistans *national budget is 97 billion USD*:
> 
> https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/asia...th-no-new-general-sales-taxes-1.1560265638656


No, it is you who has pulled the budget figure from your behind. Your *loan is $97 billion*, not your budget. Read the link carefully you have sent to impress others. Your 2019 budget says, 'Pakistan presents *Rs 6 trillion budget with Rs 3.56 trillion deficit*". So, how much is Rs.6 trillion? It is only $38 billion @Rs.165 per dollar and not $97 billion you claim. This figure is *30% more* than last year and how much did you spend on military last year?

*168.292PKR
1 PKR = 0.00594204 USD
1 USD = 168.292 PKR*


By *NATO definition*, it was "The latest value for Military expenditure (current USD) in Pakistan was 11,375,530,000 ($11.375 billion) *as of 2018*. Over the past 58 years, the value for this indicator has fluctuated between 11,461,250,000 in 2017 and 200,340,200 in 1962".

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/pakistan/military-expenditure

So, the actual spending on military was $11.375 divided by last year's budget ($38 x 70%) equals *42.8%. This is the percent you spent last year on military*. However, if you get away from NATO definition, your total military is more than this.

Now, do you think a country can progress well when it spends almost half its budget money for defense outlays? Moreover, your deficit is also a staggering Rs.3.56 trillion out of a total budget of only Rs.6 trillion.

Please do not use abusive words when you answer my posts or you may refrain from answering at all. And, instead of making things up, please come up with a real picture.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Avicenna said:


> That country is the only thing standing in the way of Modi and his ilk to impose their Hindutva will on the muslims of South Asia.
> 
> At the very least have some respect to that fact.
> 
> And the Bangladeshi government?
> 
> What an embarrassment in that regards.



Both nations have different type of threats &


bluesky said:


> Pakistan's military budget was 11.375 billion dollar in 2018 according to NATO definition. This is more than 11.72% of the national
> 
> No, it is you who has pulled the budget figure from your behind. Your *loan is $97 billion*, not your budget. Read the link carefully you have sent to impress others. Your 2019 budget is 'Pakistan presents *Rs 6 trillion budget with Rs 3.56 trillion deficit*". So, how much is Rs.6 trillion? It is only $38 billion @Rs.165 per dollar and not $97 billion you claim. This figure is *30% more* than last year and how much did you spend on military last year?
> 
> *168.292PKR
> 1 PKR = 0.00594204 USD
> 1 USD = 168.292 PKR*
> 
> 
> By *NATO definition*, it was "The latest value for Military expenditure (current USD) in Pakistan was 11,375,530,000 ($11.375 billion) *as of 2018*. Over the past 58 years, the value for this indicator has fluctuated between 11,461,250,000 in 2017 and 200,340,200 in 1962".
> 
> https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/pakistan/military-expenditure
> 
> So, the actual spending on military was $11.375 divided by last year's budget ($38 x 70%) equals *42.8%. This is the percent you spent last year on military*. However, if you get away from NATO definition, your total military is more than this.
> 
> Now, do you think a country can progress well when it spends almost half its budget money for defense outlays? Moreover, your deficit is also a staggering Rs.3.56 trillion out of a total budget of only Rs.6 trillion.
> 
> Please do not use abusive words when you answer my posts or you may refrain from answering at all. And, instead of making things up, please come up with a real picture.


i salute you for taking NATO over GOP.

I got no time for your bitchin, carry on.

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## bluesky

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I got no time for your *bitchin*, carry on.


Do not use nasty words, please!! Come with logic and truth. If not, accept what others already know.

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## bluesky

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Both nations have different type of threats &


No, your perception of threat is thoroughly wrong. BD is no threat to others and others do not threat BD. But, in the case of Pakistan, it has always been a threat to its two neighbors and attacked through the international borders directly or through Taliban.

The world is a place of living in harmony with neighbors and do industrial development. Does Pakistan believe in that kind of philosophy? I would like to know.

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## The Ronin

After two more weeks of ground runs, the second Bangladesh Air Force Lockheed C-130J, 99-5482 (S3-AGE), finally takes the first air test on March 31, 2020.

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## The Ronin



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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


>



The engine speeds on the newer Herky Bird J and H models are perfectly coordinated. You can tell that the props are perfectly sync'ed when landing and when the prop pitch is reversed to aid braking. This is in contrast with older A and B series birds which had mechanical governors and the four props were not sync'ed in any way. 

This is what FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) does.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


>


A friends fiance recently changed his course from fighter training to transport. I’m sure he wanted to fly one of these new beauties


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> A friends fiance recently changed his course from fighter training to transport. I’m sure he wanted to fly one of these new beauties



The question is....what kind of fighter?


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## fallstuff

Bilal9 said:


> The engine speeds on the newer Herky Bird J and H models are perfectly coordinated. You can tell that the props are perfectly sync'ed when landing and when the prop pitch is reversed to aid braking. This is in contrast with older A and B series birds which had mechanical governors and the four props were not sync'ed in any way.
> 
> This is what FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) does.


That was a very short landing !

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## Bilal9

fallstuff said:


> That was a very short landing !



Yeah even the A and B models have this STOL capability. Very powerful prop-pitch-reversers and brakes.

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## The Ronin

In preparation for the delivery, Bangladesh Air Force Lockheed C-130J 99-5482 (S3-AGF) has taken the second air test on April 3, 2020 with a one-hour long flight. This video shows the aircraft's takeoff, one missing approach and landing at Cambridge Airport.

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## The Ronin



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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


>



Mashallah great step for MEDEVAC conversion from their normal SAR defence duties. I believe they have a few Agusta Westland 139's (and AW119's) for critical cases. But they can always order more (and should) because existing fleet may not be sufficient for even peacetime SAR training role.

AW109's are for the Navy sub-hunter role and are too small for MEDEVAC role in any case. The Bell 206's/212's, AS365's and of course Mi-17's/171's can always be converted.

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## ghost250

4th C-130J Super Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force preparing for paint job.. 

##DTB

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> 4th C-130J Super Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force preparing for paint job..
> 
> ##DTB
> 
> 
> View attachment 621688


All of them didn’t come already? bd should get bd flag painted on the tail like them

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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> All of them didn’t come already? bd should get bd flag painted on the tail like them


yes,all 5 of them were received by Marshall aerospace on behalf of BAF..

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## JohnWick

UKBengali said:


> Next to impossible as Pakistan has no money and they will not get loans from UK as they
> have little ability to pay it back.
> 
> Coronavirus is forcing them to ask for handouts just to feed their poor and so expensive fighters will be last on their minds.


At last m come at a point that mukti bahini bsting is encoded in your DNA....This is ridiculous that in 71 we have all the money and you have nothing....Now, you have money but shit Air force and we have no money....But sth that we call air force blah blah....

All I mean is that it has psychosocial and psychological effect on your minds....
But we can live with it....

But still Thank you so much for our nukes.


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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> At last m come at a point that mukti bahini bsting is encoded in your DNA....This is ridiculous that in 71 we have all the money and you have nothing....Now, you have money but shit Air force and we have no money....But sth that we call air force blah blah....
> 
> All I mean is that it has psychosocial and psychological effect on your minds....
> But we can live with it....
> 
> But still Thank you so much for our nukes.



wow.

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## Nilgiri

JohnWick said:


> Now, you have money



They really dont. They just claim they do. Its called inflation.

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## Avicenna

Nilgiri said:


> They really dont. They just claim they do. Its called inflation.



Curious.

Why did Florence Parly come visit?

Second satellite?

Rafale?

Ships?

Chai and toast biscuits?


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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> Wow



Please dude, for your sake stop embarrassing yourself.

With every post, you demonstrate either how immature or stupid, or perhaps both you are.

Any updates with the smoke seeking missile developments?

Nonsensical gibberish aside.....

BAF isn't getting any fighters or other big ticket items anytime soon.


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## Michael Corleone

Knock it out, keep the thread on topic.


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## Avicenna

Any word on those K-8W supposed to be delivered?

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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Any word on those K-8W supposed to be delivered?



Nope, just sitting there idly and posing for cameras for now.

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## ghost250

A helicopter of Bangladesh Air Force made emergency landing in Rangamati this morning, according to a press release of ISPR.

The crew members, including two pilots -- Squadron Leader Adnan and Flight Lieutenant Shahed -- landed safely 200 yards off Bolipara Helipad near Rajostholi Camp at 11:05am, the press release said.

The helicopter, which was on a mission to supply essentials, was going to Bolipara from Kaptai, the ISPR said.

The skilled pilots managed to land safely without harming public property, the press release mentioned.

#defseca

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## Avicenna

Anybody have any recent BAF related pics?

Let's try to keep this thread going.

Also, don't expect any MRCA related activity for quite awhile due to recent events.

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## Avicenna

Not sure if posted here before but its something!

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## The Ronin



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## JohnWick

Avicenna said:


> Not sure if posted here before but its something!


Very Nice.

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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> Very Nice.



To be honest, not really.

BAF has ONLY 6 single seat early model Mig-29. And of course 2 -UB.

That's pathetic.

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## Sehnsucht

JohnWick said:


> I read somewhere that after partition PAF gifted some whole sqds of F-86 sabres to BAF....What happens after it?


Not F-86s.And not after Partition.
PAF gifted us some squadrons of F-6 during the late 80s.I think most of them was damaged during the cyclone of 1991 because of the negligence & stupidity of BAF.



JohnWick said:


> But don't worry after 16 jfts MAF also has nothing serious.


These JFTs are as much of a threat as MAF Mig-29s, if not more.They're capable of BVR & carrying anti-ship missiles, after all.

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## JohnWick

Sehnsucht said:


> Not F-86s.And not after Partition.
> PAF gifted us some squadrons of F-6 during the late 80s.I think most of them was damaged during the cyclone of 1991 because of the negligence & stupidity of BAF.
> 
> 
> These JFTs are as much of a threat as MAF Mig-29s, if not more.They're capable of BVR & carrying anti-ship missiles, after all.


Nahh there were F-86s






I said after jfts MAF has nothing serious....
Read again.

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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> I read somewhere that after partition PAF gifted some whole sqds of F-86 sabres to BAF....What happens after it?
> But don't worry after 16 jfts MAF also has nothing serious.



@Sehnsucht is correct. Around 90-91 PAF gave a bunch of F-6 to BAF. And then a cyclone hit and ruined them.
Absolutely shameful on the part of Bangladesh. I still remember being pissed even as a kid.

MAF is a threat. 6 SU-30, 16 Thunder Block 2 and about 30 or so early model Mig-29 which have been upgraded. (On top of that, I am not really counting the 50 or so F-7M)

How BAF counters SD-10 I have no idea.

Those F-86 were left by PAF I believe after the war.

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## JohnWick

Avicenna said:


> @Sehnsucht is correct. Around 90-91 PAF gave a bunch of F-6 to BAF. And then a cyclone hit and ruined them.
> Absolutely shameful on the part of Bangladesh. I still remember being pissed even as a kid.
> 
> MAF is a threat. 6 SU-30, 16 Thunder Block 2 and about 30 or so early model Mig-29 which have been upgraded.
> 
> How BAF counters SD-10 I have no idea.


Wonder why MAF requested for SD-10s!
SD-10 can be counter by purchasing SD-10s and JFT from PAC/CAC .
And small quantities of jets are not a threat....


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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> Wonder why MAF requested for SD-10s!
> SD-10 can be counter by purchasing SD-10s and JFT from PAC/CAC .
> And small quantities of jets are not a threat....



I don't think the R-27 BAF have are fire and forget.

So BAF is at a serious disadvantage.

No matter what platform BAF gets, it NEEDS an active radar BVR AAM to counter SD-10 and likely R-77.


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## SABRE

JohnWick said:


> Nahh there were F-86s
> View attachment 625525
> View attachment 625526
> I said after jfts MAF has nothing serious....
> Read again.



BAF inherited some F-86 that were deployed in East Pakistan upon BD's independence. PAF gifted F-6 to BAF, which were destroyed in a cyclone.


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## Indos

I think Bangladesh need to concentrate on its economy until 2030 and dont need to buy new fighter jet along the period. 

Bangladesh then can start replacing all of their fighter with 5 generation fighter starting in 2030 when its economy have been tripled.

KFX/IFX program can be one of the option if this program is successful and can reach its mass production phase in 2026.

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## Avicenna

Indos said:


> I think Bangladesh need to concentrate on its economy until 2030 and dont need to buy new fighter jet along the period.
> 
> Bangladesh then can start replacing all of their fighter with 5 generation fighter starting in 2030 when its economy have been tripled.
> 
> KFX/IFX program can be one of the option if this program is successful and can reach its mass production phase in 2026.



Disagree about waiting till 2030. It takes time to learn and build capability and a culture.

BAF is already WAYY behind where it needs to be.

I am assuming you need experience with and time working with certain capabilities to be able to effectively employ it in wartime.

Buying the hardware after a certain time doesn't mean much because there is no easy button to press to able to harness all the capabilities that hardware brings to the table in a short period of time.

And to have a sizeable combat aircraft force, your pilots are gonna have to fly, train, and gain experience. 

BAF really can't wait till 2030 without a purchase when its two potential adversaries are already way ahead.

And already as is its F-7BG/BGI purchases from 2006-2013 were labeled as "stop gap".

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> I think Bangladesh need to concentrate on its economy until 2030 and dont need to buy new fighter jet along the period.
> 
> Bangladesh then can start replacing all of their fighter with 5 generation fighter starting in 2030 when its economy have been tripled.
> 
> KFX/IFX program can be one of the option if this program is successful and can reach its mass production phase in 2026.





BAF cannot wait any longer and it is shameful that a country like Myanmar that has a GDP five times less has a much better air-force.

As BD has been wasting so much time already and still in 2020 has not ordered any modern 4+ generation fighters, it does not make much sense to waste too much treasure on buying say 100 4+ gen fighters over this decade, as they will start becoming obsolete in the 2030s.

The KFX/IFX program will not really be suitable as too much of the tech will be US/Korean. Korea is heavily under US influence and could easily buckle to US pressure.

I would say get a couple of squadrons of 4+ gen fighters from the West now, then wait till 2025 when the FC-31 should be ready for export and start ordering this in numbers as the financial capability of BD allows.

Myanmar is not that much of a threat as it is so tiny and so could be taken care of with maybe 2-3 squadrons of 4+ gen fighters at most and then BAF could be geared with much larger numbers of Chinese 5th gen fighters to be able to deter the Indians for the longer term, who are the real threat to BD.

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## Avicenna

You have to get some modern platforms in service that at least match up with the capabilities that Myanmar is going to be deploying.

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if there is a maritime or border dispute which turns hot.

MyAF will have Block 2 Thunders with SD-10 and its small force of Flankers with R-77.

BAF is gonna be picked off at range before it can do anything.

Yes Yes, the powers that be have been thinking keesu hobena........

That BS.

You don't know that.

Don't be caught with your pants down.

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## JohnWick

Avicenna said:


> You have to get some modern platforms in service that at least match up with the capabilities that Myanmar is going to be deploying.
> 
> Hypothetically speaking, what happens if there is a maritime or border dispute which turns hot.
> 
> MyAF will have Block 2 Thunders with SD-10 and its small force of Flankers with R-77.
> 
> BAF is gonna be picked off at range before it can do anything.
> 
> Yes Yes, the powers that be have been thinking keesu hobena........
> 
> That BS.
> 
> You don't know that.
> 
> Don't be caught with your pants down.


What quality of SAM BA has?


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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> What quality of SAM BA has?



MANPADS and SHORAD.


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## JohnWick

Avicenna said:


> MANPADS and SHORAD.


Does some units operate stinger missiles?


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## Avicenna

JohnWick said:


> Does some units operate stinger missiles?



Stingers are a type of MANPADS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

I'm not sure exactly what types BA operates. @Arthur @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @Atlas @Sehnsucht @leonblack08

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## ghost250

JohnWick said:


> Does some units operate stinger missiles?


nope..qw-2,fn-6,fn-16(got ToT),rbs-70ng(on order)...

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## UKBengali

ghost250 said:


> nope..qw-2,fn-6,fn-16(got ToT),rbs-70ng(on order)...




Just beat me to it


Really interesting that despite the fact BD is assembling FN-16 through ToT it placed an order for the Swedish RBS-70NG. Very good decision to be diversifying and not just relying on the Chinese.

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## AMG_12

UKBengali said:


> Just beat me to it
> 
> 
> Really interesting that despite the fact BD is assembling FN-16 through ToT it placed an order for the Swedish RBS-70NG. Very good decision to be diversifying and not just relying on the Chinese.


Can you post the source for RBS 70NG?


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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> Stingers are a type of MANPADS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what types BA operates. @Arthur @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @Atlas @Sehnsucht @leonblack08





JohnWick said:


> Does some units operate stinger missiles?


No Stingers.
Bangladesh Army operates Chinese QW-2, FN-16.
QW-2 is the most numerous system in service. FN-16s are supposed to be made in Bangladesh Ordnance Factory.
There was a tender few months ago for another system. Competition was between Russian Igla-S & Swedish RBS-70 NG.
RBS-70 NG won.Not sure how many will be bought or the delivery date.Maybe @The Ronin or @ghost250 knows.



UKBengali said:


> Really interesting that despite the fact BD is assembling FN-16 through ToT it placed an order for the Swedish RBS-70NG. Very good decision to be diversifying and not just relying on the Chinese.


I think FN-16 will be produced in numbers, hence we got TOT for it.It'll probably replace QW-2 as a cheap, effective system that can be deployed en masse.
While RBS-70 NG is being bought to maintain qualititive edge.A hi-lo combination.Part of our armed forces' recent trend of looking westward too I guess. @Avicenna @UKBengali

Either way, good to see BA focusing on both quality & quantity.

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## Avicenna

Sehnsucht said:


> No Stingers.
> Bangladesh Army operates Chinese QW-2, FN-16.
> QW-2 is the most numerous system in service. FN-16s are supposed to be made in Bangladesh Ordnance Factory.
> There was a tender few months ago for another system. Competition was between Russian Igla-S & Swedish RBS-70 NG.
> RBS-70 NG won.Not sure how many will be bought or the delivery date.Maybe @The Ronin or @ghost250 knows.
> 
> 
> I think FN-16 will be produced in numbers, hence we got TOT for it.It'll probably replace QW-2 as a cheap, effective system that can be deployed en masse.
> While RBS-70 NG is being bought to maintain qualititive edge.A hi-lo combination.Part of our armed forces' recent trend of looking westward too I guess. @Avicenna @UKBengali
> 
> Either way, good to see BA focusing on both quality & quantity.



Do we have confirmation or sources of BA RBS-70NG order or delivery?

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## Sehnsucht

Avicenna said:


> Do we have confirmation or sources of BA RBS-70NG order or delivery?


Order is as much confirmed as possible, bearing in mind that it is Bangladesh.
I have heard about it from many different sources.And they're reliable, not like the types of BDMilitary.

Have absolutely zero idea about numbers & delivery though. @The Ronin @ghost250 & @Michael Corleone might know more.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Do we have confirmation or sources of BA RBS-70NG order or delivery?


Order is confirmed. Number not so sure. Some are saying upto 70 systems will be bought. 


Indos said:


> I think Bangladesh need to concentrate on its economy until 2030 and dont need to buy new fighter jet along the period.
> 
> Bangladesh then can start replacing all of their fighter with 5 generation fighter starting in 2030 when its economy have been tripled.
> 
> KFX/IFX program can be one of the option if this program is successful and can reach its mass production phase in 2026.


One would still need fourth generation fighters to keep being the work horse.

FGFA while very advanced, has cost & op load limitations. The amount of armaments they carry is limited in sake of stealth & they require longer, extensive & costly maintenance.

Fourth generation aircraft requires relatively shorter time for maintenance, means fleet availability is higher.

USAF has been using F 22 Raptors for decades now but they still has the largest fleet of 4.5 gen fighters. That tells something, doesn't it?

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## JohnWick

Sehnsucht said:


> No Stingers.
> Bangladesh Army operates Chinese QW-2, FN-16.
> QW-2 is the most numerous system in service. FN-16s are supposed to be made in Bangladesh Ordnance Factory.
> There was a tender few months ago for another system. Competition was between Russian Igla-S & Swedish RBS-70 NG.
> RBS-70 NG won.Not sure how many will be bought or the delivery date.Maybe @The Ronin or @ghost250 knows.
> 
> 
> I think FN-16 will be produced in numbers, hence we got TOT for it.It'll probably replace QW-2 as a cheap, effective system that can be deployed en masse.
> While RBS-70 NG is being bought to maintain qualititive edge.A hi-lo combination.Part of our armed forces' recent trend of looking westward too I guess. @Avicenna @UKBengali
> 
> Either way, good to see BA focusing on both quality & quantity.


Pakistan has tones of stingers in Storage acquired from Afghan Mujahideen during the Cold War.They proved to be very effective against the Soviet Air Force.
We mainly use them as bunker roasting. Just like we had used anti aircraft guns against Indian soldiers in Kargil.

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## Michael Corleone

JohnWick said:


> Pakistan has tones of stingers in Storage acquired from Afghan Mujahideen during the Cold War.They proved to be very effective against the Soviet Air Force.
> We mainly use them as bunker roasting. Just like we had used anti aircraft guns against Indian soldiers in Kargil.


Seen bakthar shikan used against Indian post in one YouTube video. Can’t find it anymore though

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## VikingRaider

Avicenna said:


> Stingers are a type of MANPADS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what types BA operates. @Arthur @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @Atlas @Sehnsucht @leonblack08


Not sure brother as I have limited knowledge and also did not browse defense related pages or youtube channels like DTB or Defence update Bangladesh . Just now mostly read the news related to coronavirus nowadays .

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## Michael Corleone

Atlas said:


> Not sure brother as I have limited knowledge and also did not browse defense related pages or youtube channels like DTB or Defence update Bangladesh . Just now mostly read the news related to coronavirus nowadays .


Same. I’m out of these insider information news and updates. I’ve stopped a lot of things during quarantine, helping me to prioritize the things I value the most

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> Just beat me to it
> 
> 
> Really interesting that despite the fact BD is assembling FN-16 through ToT it placed an order for the Swedish RBS-70NG. Very good decision to be diversifying and not just relying on the Chinese.



Just putting our eggs in different baskets, always a great thing to do considering - like this situation!!


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## ghost250

Sehnsucht said:


> Order is as much confirmed as possible, bearing in mind that it is Bangladesh.
> I have heard about it from many different sources.And they're reliable, not like the types of BDMilitary.
> 
> Have absolutely zero idea about numbers & delivery though. @The Ronin @ghost250 & @Michael Corleone might know more.


dont know about numbers, brother but deliveries could be completed between 12 and 24 months after contract signing....so that means late 2020 or mid 2021!!

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## Bilal9

RBS-70 NG is the Mercedes Benz of MANPADs. Especially with the Bolide missile which has a 5 mile range. These will probably be given to the elite troops in the army, my understanding. Locally made FN-16's which are made in large numbers go to the regular troops.

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## Michael Corleone



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## leonblack08

View from F 7 BGI

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## AMG_12

Bilal9 said:


> RBS-70 NG is the Mercedes Benz of MANPADs. Especially with the Bolide missile which has a 5 mile range. These will probably be given to the elite troops in the army, my understanding. Locally made FN-16's which are made in large numbers go to the regular troops.


Can you please post a source for this deal? Some members were claiming AW-159 procurement which was debunked today. Such deals are usually announced, even if the buyer is anonymous.


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## Bilal9

AMG_12 said:


> Can you please post a source for this deal? Some members were claiming AW-159 procurement which was debunked today. Such deals are usually announced, even if the buyer is anonymous.



The thing is - until these procurements are publicly announced (which means finalized), no one knows which stage these purchases are in. 'Debunked' is a strong word.

Sometimes purchases are backtracked mid-negotiation, like this AW-159 deal was with Leonardo and Agusta, to look for better or more capable solutions. I doubt Bangladesh cash reserves (at the stages they are in) will make us want for cheaper solutions or cancel them. For the time being, purchases may be delayed for caution among the covid 19 scenario, but not for long.

Most of us Bangladeshis know senior folks in Bangladesh Army circles who have given us hints, so that is the extent of 'source' for you. @Ronin bhai may have more information.

So take everything with a grain of salt...believe it when you see it in print.

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## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> View from F 7 BGI



Fookin Gorgeous!

I wish we can have more of these videos!

This one was VERY nicely done! (The music was perfect)

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Fookin Gorgeous!
> 
> I wish we can have more of these videos!
> 
> This one was VERY nicely done! (The music was perfect)


Forgive me for being curious but did you also wanted to be a pilot growing up?

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Forgive me for being curious but did you also wanted to be a pilot growing up?



Ha ha ha 

Not just Avicenna Bhai but almost all of us wanted to be pilots (at least 90% of us). After seeing Tom Cruise in Top Gun growing up, even more so....life's great as a flyboy and then you get the girl too. What's not to like??

By the way - Mr. Cruise is returning in a sequel, this summer (may go direct to video by the looks of it). Tom Cruise is a certified pilot by the way, but wasn't allowed to fly the F-18.

https://downloadmedia.gannett-cdn.c...1-205d-4143-a720-27564fe188c9/1080p_30fps.mp4

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Forgive me for being curious but did you also wanted to be a pilot growing up?



Yup.

Since I was a kid.

I entertained it seriously for a minute late in high school, but I chose the path of least resistance into medicine.

In all honesty, I probably would have washed out before I made it to a fighter squadron in the USAF.

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## ghost250

AMG_12 said:


> Can you please post a source for this deal? Some members were claiming AW-159 procurement which was debunked today. Such deals are usually announced, even if the buyer is anonymous.


debunked by whom??..for ur kind info ,that same source confirmed this acquisition of rbs-70ng... but this time u dont want to believe the news of rbs-70ng....

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Yup.
> 
> Since I was a kid.
> 
> I entertained it seriously for a minute late in high school, but I chose the path of least resistance into medicine.
> 
> In all honesty, I probably would have washed out before I made it to a fighter squadron in the USAF.


Call it a bias, but I personally believe a Bengali will always make a great pilot. At least the people I know in aviation, are great pilots.

You see I had my learners permit at the age of 19 even before I learned to drive or what por*n is. lol

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Ha ha ha
> 
> Not just Avicenna Bhai but almost all of us wanted to be pilots (at least 90% of us). After seeing Tom Cruise in Top Gun growing up, even more so....life's great as a flyboy and then you get the girl too. What's not to like??
> 
> By the way - Mr. Cruise is returning in a sequel, this summer (may go direct to video by the looks of it). Tom Cruise is a certified pilot by the way, but wasn't allowed to fly the F-18.
> 
> https://downloadmedia.gannett-cdn.c...1-205d-4143-a720-27564fe188c9/1080p_30fps.mp4


Heard that the cockpit action was real maneuvers, I thought he flew those f18s 
Anyways, inaccurate but great movie. Pfft I wish I could be a pilot



Avicenna said:


> Yup.
> 
> Since I was a kid.
> 
> I entertained it seriously for a minute late in high school, but I chose the path of least resistance into medicine.
> 
> In all honesty, I probably would have washed out before I made it to a fighter squadron in the USAF.


Lmao path of least resistance. Yeah it is until I delved into it further. Getting my anus stretched here. XD

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Heard that the cockpit action was real maneuvers, I thought he flew those f18s
> Anyways, inaccurate but great movie. Pfft I wish I could be a pilot
> 
> 
> Lmao path of least resistance. Yeah it is until I delved into it further. Getting my anus stretched here. XD



You'll get used to the pain.






Tool understands.....

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Heard that the cockpit action was real maneuvers, I thought he flew those f18s. Anyways, inaccurate but great movie. Pfft I wish I could be a pilot.



No - the producer and director of the movie confirmed that cruise was certified on other airplanes, but not on F18.

He could have done it with some training I bet, but the Navy finally did not allow it. 

It is a blazing advertisement for the US Naval Aviation anyways...and it worked. Their recruitment rates pretty much soared.

Wondering how the re-make is gonna be like. The heroine is a grandma now and Cruise is barely hiding his senior citizen status...



Avicenna said:


> You'll get used to the pain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tool understands.....



Wow - disturbing is an understatement.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> You'll get used to the pain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tool understands.....


What did I just watch



Bilal9 said:


> No - the producer and director of the movie confirmed that cruise was certified on other airplanes, but not on F18.
> 
> He could have done it with some training I bet, but the Navy finally did not allow it.
> 
> It is a blazing advertisement for the US Naval Aviation anyways...and it worked. Their recruitment rates pretty much soared.
> 
> Wondering how the re-make is gonna be like. The heroine is a grandma now and Cruise is barely hiding his senior citizen status...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow - disturbing is an understatement.


The grandma was a cougar in the last movie so not surprised. 
New pussy for him I reckon

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## Bilal9



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## Avicenna

Probably an older movie of the folks next door.

Enjoy!


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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


>




BAF can ever forget about getting it's hands on this excellent and cheap to operate fighter as USA wants BD to buy US planes.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> BAF can ever forget about getting it's hands on this excellent and cheap to operate fighter as USA wants BD to buy US planes.


Could have sold us the old surplus to get started but wanted bigger commitment

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Could have sold us the old surplus to get started but wanted bigger commitment



You mean US for refurbished F-16Cs?

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> You mean US for refurbished F-16Cs?


Refurbished gripens. Swedes refused
Just seen a report that wildcat helicopter acquisition stopped in light of US offer of the MH60 helicopters

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Refurbished gripens. Swedes refused
> Just seen a report that wildcat helicopter acquisition stopped in light of US offer of the MH60 helicopters




As regards switching from Wildcat to MH-60, I would have preferred if BN stuck with Wildcat 
to preserve commonality with what they already have.

Too many platforms will become an expensive maintenance nightmare for BN.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> As regards switching from Wildcat to MH-60, I would have preferred if BN stuck with Wildcat
> to preserve commonality with what they already have.
> 
> Too many platforms will become an expensive maintenance nightmare for BN.



We already have quite a few Agusta Helis in our fleet. The point of ordering the Wildcat was that it'd use common parts with the AW119 and AW139's, which our AF uses. I believe the Naval Air Arm also has two AW109's.

So - the Wildcats were for Naval Aviation or Air Force?

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> We already have quite a few Agusta Helis in our fleet. The point of ordering the Wildcat was that it'd use common parts with the AW119 and AW139's, which our AF uses. I believe the Naval Air Arm also has two AW109's.
> 
> So - the Wildcats were for Naval Aviation or Air Force?




Naval Aviation to track and destroy enemy subs and surface ships.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> We already have quite a few Agusta Helis in our fleet. The point of ordering the Wildcat was that it'd use common parts with the AW119 and AW139's, which our AF uses. I believe the Naval Air Arm also has two AW109's.
> 
> So - the Wildcats were for Naval Aviation or Air Force?


Wildcats were always intended for the navy. I would have preferred wildcat too for commonalities sake

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## Avicenna

Hopefully, one day soon there are precision guided stand off munitions hanging from those wings rather than unguided rockets.

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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Hopefully, one day soon there are precision guided stand off munitions hanging from those wings rather than unguided rockets.


Would BAF consider to buy Mig-35?


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> Would BAF consider to buy Mig-35?



Consider yes.

But I hope not.


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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Consider yes.
> 
> But I hope not.


Why not?
BAF has Mig-29 already, and it will low the cost to buy Mig-35.


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## Avicenna

LKJ86 said:


> Why not?
> BAF has Mig-29 already, and it will low the cost to buy Mig-35.



Mixture of politics and capability.

Buying from Russia yields no political leverage either against India or Myanmar.

That alone should disqualify Russian sourced weapons.

Also, Mig-35 is still under development. And unproven.

It's a different story for Chinese or US/EU weapons.

When Bangladesh bought those Mig-29 back in the late 90's, the US refused F-16s and so Russian fighters were the only other option.

This is not the case anymore.

Better to cut your losses now than to double down.


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## Michael Corleone

LKJ86 said:


> Why not?
> BAF has Mig-29 already, and it will low the cost to buy Mig-35.


Russian after sales support is miserable. For China it’s okay as they just proceed to reverse engineer everything. For a country like Bangladesh that’s a deal breaker because we don’t have such resource


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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> Russian after sales support is miserable. For China it’s okay as they just proceed to reverse engineer everything. For a country like Bangladesh that’s a deal breaker because we don’t have such resource


Well. Not that difficult to get proper service. Just need to negotiate. In Myanmar , they even help to build MIG-29 overhaul plant and teach know-how by sending technical and pilot teams to test.


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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> Well. Not that difficult to get proper service. Just need to negotiate. In Myanmar , they even help to build MIG-29 overhaul plant and teach know-how by sending technical and pilot teams to test.


We get our services done from third party like Belarus and ukraine. They’re OEM maintenance providers but provide better service than the original. Even myanmar had many of their mig 29s out of action


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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> We get our services done from third party like Belarus and ukraine. They’re OEM maintenance providers but provide better service than the original. Even myanmar had many of their mig 29s out of action


Nope. Just need to know how to deal with Russia. We got overhaul plant plus upgrade facility and the technical assistance by orginal companies to support know-how about MIG-29 upgrading and *Russian pilots* to test upgraded planes. I dont think we are too good in negotiation. May be u guys dont know how to deal with Russian. And our MIG-29 were never out of action as Russian provided consistently necessary spare parts except the preparing time for overhaul and upgrading. May be beacuse we have very good relationships with both other OEM providers u mentioned.


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## Pakistani Fighter

Avicenna said:


> Also, Mig-35 is still under development.


Still?


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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> Nope. Just need to know how to deal with Russia. We got overhaul plant plus upgrade facility and the technical assistance by orginal companies to support know-how about MIG-29 upgrading and *Russian pilots* to test upgraded planes. I dont think we are too good in negotiation. May be u guys dont know how to deal with Russian. And our MIG-29 were never out of action as Russian provided consistently necessary spare parts except the preparing time for overhaul and upgrading. May be beacuse we have very good relationships with both other OEM providers u mentioned.


You guys are known for overspending on military. It’s no big deal to get russia to do your work, just need To spend more money


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## Avicenna

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Still?



https://ria.ru/20190617/1555619124.html (Use google translate)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-35#cite_note-MiG-35_introduction-2

As per Wikipedia 2 delivered so far to Russia as of 6/2019.

None exported yet. Egyptian "Mig-35" don't count.

Probably has alot of wrinkles to iron out.

Russia is pushing HARD to export these for MiG's sake.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...why-baku-could-receive-the-jets-at-a-discount


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> https://ria.ru/20190617/1555619124.html (Use google translate)
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-35#cite_note-MiG-35_introduction-2
> 
> As per Wikipedia 2 delivered so far to Russia as of 6/2019.
> 
> None exported yet. Egyptian "Mig-35" don't count.
> 
> Probably has alot of wrinkles to iron out.
> 
> Russia is pushing HARD to export these for MiG's sake.
> 
> https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...why-baku-could-receive-the-jets-at-a-discount


Egyptians got a rebranded mig 29, those don’t have most of the improvements mig 35s should

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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> You guys are known for overspending on military. It’s no big deal to get russia to do your work, just need To spend more money



Well. Actually no. It is alot cheaper compared to western ones and We have very limitation in using budget. Unlike BD, we have a very stronger relationship with Russia since long time ago and we are regular buyer of Russia. And also we have many military officers who lived in Russia for years and can speak and know well Russian culture. This is main point. U know Actually sending to Belarus and Ukraine is more expensive and also for upgrading in ukraine, Russia dont give any guarantee for that quality of plane. ?

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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> Well. Actually no. It is alot cheaper compared to western ones and We have very limitation in using budget. Unlike BD, we have a very stronger relationship with Russia since long time ago and we are regular buyer of Russia. And also we have many military officers who lived in Russia for years and can speak and know well Russian culture. This is main point. U know Actually sending to Belarus and Ukraine is more expensive and also for upgrading in ukraine, Russia dont give any guarantee for that quality of plane. ?


Guarantee period doesn’t last for the entire lifespan of the plane. Y’all have defense pact signed with them and y’all spend more percentage of your GDP on defense to keep up with your neighbors. Fact is this is not sustainable.

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## tarpitz

Aung Zaya said:


> Well. Actually no. It is alot cheaper compared to western ones and We have very limitation in using budget. Unlike BD, we have a very stronger relationship with Russia since long time ago and we are regular buyer of Russia. And also we have many military officers who lived in Russia for years and can speak and know well Russian culture. This is main point. U know Actually sending to Belarus and Ukraine is more expensive and also for upgrading in ukraine, Russia dont give any guarantee for that quality of plane. ?



Another good thing is that apart from Russia, there are a lot of commonalities between the major hardwares of Myanmar and India such as MiG 29, Mi 35/24, Mi 27, Su 30, T 72. In this regard Myanmar is getting assistance from India including training and technical support. Myanmar is also getting much needed spare parts from India with friendly price tag.


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## Avicenna

The article is a bit old but I hadn't seen it before.

It names names in terms of BD officials, confirms interest in the Apache, as well as talks about interest in fighter jets and missiles.

https://www.benarnews.org/english/news/bengali/weapons-deal-10302019172445.html

*Bangladesh Confirms Talks with US for Fighter Jets, Combat Helicopters*
Kamran Reza Chowdhury
Dhaka
2019-10-30






A U.S. Army Apache helicopter fires rockets during military live-fire drills in Pocheon, South Korea, near the border with North Korea, April 26, 2017.


 AP

Bangladesh is negotiating to purchase fighter jets, missiles systems and combat helicopters from the United States, a Bangladeshi official said Wednesday, underscoring that the South Asian nation was taking steps to modernize its armed forces.

A senior official of Bangladesh’s ruling Awami League party gave the confirmation after local reports quoted unidentified U.S. officials as saying that negotiations were taking place for Dhaka to acquire advanced military equipment.

“We have been in negotiation with the United States regarding procurement of attack helicopters, fighter planes and missiles,” retired Col. Faruk Khan, chairman of the parliamentary Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, told BenarNews without elaborating.

“The addition of attack helicopters such as Apaches and modern missile systems from the United States will definitely modernize our armed forces,” he said. “This will be a good achievement.”

Khan also is a member of parliament’s Standing Committee on Defense.

“We want to modernize our armed forces, keeping the world’s modern armed forces in mind,” Khan said. “That is why, we have been trying to procure sophisticated military equipment from the United States and other developed countries.”

The negotiation marks the first time that Dhaka, which has relied heavily on purchases of military hardware from China, has approached Washington for defense equipment since Bangladesh achieved its independence in 1971, security analysts told BenarNews.

*Bilateral agreements*

In Washington, a U.S. State Department official said that two pending bilateral agreements – the Acquisitions and Cross Servicing Agreement (ACSA) and the General Security of Military Information Agreement (GSOMIA) – would “reaffirm” that Dhaka and Washington have common regional and global interests.

“The United States has such agreements with over 100 countries,” said the U.S. official, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss potential foreign defense sales.

“These agreements have not and do not in any way commit a country to military action,” the official told BenarNews on Wednesday.

The two agreements would be required before the transfer of military equipment. GSOMIA does not commit governments to share information, but commits governments to protect classified military information, if shared, the official said.

ACSA would facilitate the transfer of fuel from Bangladesh military to visiting U.S. naval ships and aircraft participating in annual training exercises. That deal would work both ways, allowing Bangladesh naval ships to operate outside of their normal areas, the official said.

“Together, we are working to expand partnerships in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, peacekeeping, defense trade, military cooperation, and counterterrorism, as well as maritime security and regional issues,” he said.

Khan, the Bangladeshi official, said bilateral talks related to ACSA and GSOMIA were ongoing.

Bangladesh made the initial request to acquire the military equipment back in 2018, the Dhaka Tribune quoted an unnamed U.S. Embassy official as saying during a conference with a select group of reporters on Oct. 17. The officials did not provide figures involved in the planned acquisition.

Janes.com, a leading news website for military and security issues, quoted an unnamed U.S. official on Wednesday as saying that the two agreements would deepen “bilateral defense and security ties” between the two countries.

*Analyst: ‘A big development’*

Since the 1980s, Bangladesh's 157,000-member military had purchased equipment from China, its traditional main weapons supplier, Russia, Great Britain and South Korea.

“Bangladesh had been a least-developed country. The United States did not sell military equipment to Bangladesh for decades as we were not considered trustworthy for maintaining secrecy of the military supplies from America,” Retired Brig. Gen. Sakhawat Hossain, a Bangladeshi security analyst, told BenarNews.

“It is a big development that the United States is now considering selling Apache helicopters to Bangladesh,” he said. “Washington would usually not sell advanced military equipment to Bangladesh as the Chinese have a huge influence on the Bangladeshi military.”

Bangladesh’s Air Force includes fighter planes from Russia, the United Kingdom and France and at least six 1970s-era Mil Mi-17 transport helicopters and three Bell utility helicopters, officials said. Dhaka’s military expenditure, totaling about U.S. $3.2 billion in 2017 to 2018, accounts for about 6 percent of its annual budget, according to official statistics.

Bangladesh planned to initially purchase eight attack helicopters with Turkish-built T-129 and Russian Mi-35M considered to be front contenders, but the U.S. Apache AH-64E trumped all competitors, according to South Asia Monitor. It said negotiations between U.S. and Bangladeshi officials were scheduled later this year.

But Foreign Secretary Shahidul Haque told BenarNews that he could not confirm the Janes.com and Dhaka Tribune reports.

“I have no idea about such agreements,” he said.

The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which monitors military spending worldwide, said China had monopolized Bangladesh’s acquisition of defense supplies in the 1980s amounting to more U.S. $1 billion.

Beijing dominated military sales to Bangladesh since 2010, reaching almost U.S. $2 billion, SIPRI said. On Oct. 16, Janes.com reported that two frigates decommissioned by China's People’s Liberation Army Navy “appear close to being transferred to the Bangladeshi Navy.

The 2,200-ton diesel-powered ships, formerly Lianyungang and Putian have been undergoing overhaul at the Shenjia shipyard in Shanghai, it said,” citing photos it had monitored on Chinese online military forums.

It was not immediately clear how the negotiations would impact Dhaka’s diplomatic and military relations with Beijing. But Khan, the Bangladeshi legislator, said he did not believe the defense acquisition from the United States would anger China.

“We are not in an obligation to procure military equipment from a particular country,” he said.

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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> Guarantee period doesn’t last for the entire lifespan of the plane. Y’all have defense pact signed with them and y’all spend more percentage of your GDP on defense to keep up with your neighbors. Fact is this is not sustainable.



Well unlike US and BD, there is no def pact with russia so far. Just strong relationship and military corporation agreements. The price tag for overhaul and upgrade is much not different in both Russia and Belarus. Seem like u guys are just blaming all upon Russia service to cover self-incompetence.



tarpitz said:


> Another good thing is that apart from Russia, there are a lot of commonalities between the major hardwares of Myanmar and India such as MiG 29, Mi 35/24, Mi 27, Su 30, T 72. In this regard Myanmar is getting assistance from India including training and technical support. Myanmar is also getting much needed spare parts from India with friendly price tag.


Yes. Even now huge support from India can be visible in many cases. We can also western origin india made defense equipments.


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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> Well unlike US and BD, there is no def pact with russia so far. Just strong relationship and military corporation agreements. The price tag for overhaul and upgrade is much not different in both Russia and Belarus. Seem like u guys are just blaming all upon Russia service to cover self-incompetence.


In that same tone you’re then blaming the Indians and Malaysians for abysmal after sales support. There’s. Reason India still struggles to keep 70 pc fleet readiness


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## Avicenna

https://www.janes.com/article/95961/boeing-expects-to-sign-new-pacific-customer-for-apache-helo

*Boeing expects to sign new ‘Pacific’ customer for Apache helo*
*Gareth Jennings, London* - Jane's Defence Weekly
05 May 2020






Boeing expects to add Morocco and one unidentified ‘Pacific’ customer to the international Apache user-group within the next 12 months, and has had high-level interest from 10 other nations. Source: Republic of China Army
Boeing expects to sign up a brand-new operator of the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter, with the company noting only that it is in "the Pacific region" of the world.

Speaking to _Jane's_ on 5 May, Terry Jamison, Director, Vertical Lift International Sales, said that the undisclosed Pacific customer is one of two new operators for the Apache that Boeing expects to have under contract within the next 12 months. The other, which has previously been disclosed, is Morocco.

"We expect the current 16 global operators of the Apache to go up to 18 in the next 12 months as we look to add two new users to the community that we like to call Team Apache. These two countries are totally new to the Apache - they are not existing customers looking to upgrade to the AH-64E," Jamison said, adding that further to these two very near-term prospects, Boeing is currently fielding "high-level interest" from another 10 potential new customers for the platform. "I'm only speaking about those potential customers who already have Congressional notifications, or that are very near to getting them," he noted.

For the potential new customer in the Pacific region, there have been no recent official State Department approvals for sales beyond those already disclosed. Australia is known to be considering the platform, as is Bangladesh (which, while not 'Pacific' can be categorised as 'Asia-Pacific').* Jamison told Jane's that the mystery customer is not the Philippines*, which was approved to buy either the Apache or Bell AH-1Z Viper on 30 April. Existing Asia-Pacific operators of the Apache comprise India, Indonesia, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> https://www.janes.com/article/95961/boeing-expects-to-sign-new-pacific-customer-for-apache-helo
> 
> *Boeing expects to sign new ‘Pacific’ customer for Apache helo*
> *Gareth Jennings, London* - Jane's Defence Weekly
> 05 May 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boeing expects to add Morocco and one unidentified ‘Pacific’ customer to the international Apache user-group within the next 12 months, and has had high-level interest from 10 other nations. Source: Republic of China Army
> Boeing expects to sign up a brand-new operator of the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter, with the company noting only that it is in "the Pacific region" of the world.
> 
> Speaking to _Jane's_ on 5 May, Terry Jamison, Director, Vertical Lift International Sales, said that the undisclosed Pacific customer is one of two new operators for the Apache that Boeing expects to have under contract within the next 12 months. The other, which has previously been disclosed, is Morocco.
> 
> "We expect the current 16 global operators of the Apache to go up to 18 in the next 12 months as we look to add two new users to the community that we like to call Team Apache. These two countries are totally new to the Apache - they are not existing customers looking to upgrade to the AH-64E," Jamison said, adding that further to these two very near-term prospects, Boeing is currently fielding "high-level interest" from another 10 potential new customers for the platform. "I'm only speaking about those potential customers who already have Congressional notifications, or that are very near to getting them," he noted.
> 
> For the potential new customer in the Pacific region, there have been no recent official State Department approvals for sales beyond those already disclosed. Australia is known to be considering the platform, as is Bangladesh (which, while not 'Pacific' can be categorised as 'Asia-Pacific'). Jamison told _Jane's_ that the mystery customer is not the Philippines, which was approved to buy either the Apache or Bell AH-1Z Viper on 30 April. Existing Asia-Pacific operators of the Apache comprise India, Indonesia, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan.


Philippines.


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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Philippines.



What I thought as well initially.

Re-read the article. (bolded)


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> What I thought as well initially.
> 
> Re-read the article. (bolded)


Still not BAF.  

Anyway Boeing seems to have taken keen interest in BD. There's is a chance F/A 18's will come for maritime strike squadron.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> Still not BAF.
> 
> Anyway Boeing seems to have taken keen interest in BD. There's is a chance F/A 18's will come for maritime strike squadron.


Until further notice, nothing more than isopropyl filled BAF trucks

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## Avicenna

Not related to BAF but has some great footage of Hornets and the perspective of Gonky.

Seems like a really cool guy ex-Navy flying with RMAF as a Boeing employee.

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## Rahil Ahmed

How many Yak-130's will we have once all are delivered?


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## Bilal9

Rahil Ahmed said:


> How many Yak-130's will we have once all are delivered?



16 so far and that's it I believe AFAIK.

"Initially, the Bangladesh Air Force intended to acquire 24 Yak-130 aircraft, but the budget allowed the republic to get a loan for only 16 aircraft of this type."

https://armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2015/1005/110031458/detail.shtml

Please translate to English.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> 16 so far and that's it I believe AFAIK.
> 
> "Initially, the Bangladesh Air Force intended to acquire 24 Yak-130 aircraft, but the budget allowed the republic to get a loan for only 16 aircraft of this type."
> 
> https://armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2015/1005/110031458/detail.shtml
> 
> Please translate to English.


Imagine what a waste it would have been if we actually got 24, and I remember how disappointed I was when they finalized on 16 xD

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Imagine what a waste it would have been if we actually got 24, and I remember how disappointed I was when they finalized on 16 xD



Well I don't remember if it was 16 before the 3 crashes, or after?

Khayal nai.

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Well I don't remember if it was 16 before the 3 crashes, or after?
> 
> Khayal nai.



13 in use. 3 lost.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> 13 in use. 3 lost.



Well these are the Advanced Lead-in Jet trainers to replace the L-39s. 

I don't know what role the K-8's play. Probably the same but a step lower in Jet training. Both are subsonic I believe.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Well these are the Advanced Lead-in Jet trainers to replace the L-39s.
> 
> I don't know what role the K-8's play. Probably the same but a step lower in Jet training. Both are subsonic I believe.


L39s still in service though

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> L39s still in service though



Yup, plan is to phase them out in a few years.

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## Avicenna

I wonder where those additional 7 K-8 are?

Have they been delivered?

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## The Ronin

Bilal9 said:


> Well these are the Advanced Lead-in Jet trainers to replace the L-39s.
> 
> I don't know what role the K-8's play. Probably the same but a step lower in Jet training. Both are subsonic I believe.



K-8W to replace L-39Z and give pilots more flying hours. Yak-130 to replace A-5 for ground attack and AJT role for future Russian MRCA which is not happening anymore.

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## ghost250

Air Force crews head to the UK to bring second unit of C-130J transport aircraft

https://www.ispr.gov.bd/ক্রয়কৃত-সি-...QmKT9BOfAXYt0QPUC_LGonxfrcOJ-7yp9wyvCozHD1QFM

*ক্রয়কৃত সি-১৩০জে পরিবহন বিমান আনতে বিমান বাহিনীর ক্রুদের যুক্তরাজ্যে গমন *

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## leonblack08

The Ronin said:


> K-8W to replace L-39Z and give pilots more flying hours. Yak-130 to replace A-5 for ground attack and AJT role for future Russian MRCA which is not happening anymore.



I remember reading somewhere that the 3 lost yaks were ordered for replacement to maintain full squadron. Has that been cancelled?

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## Dazzler

Pathankot warriors...

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> K-8W to replace L-39Z and give pilots more flying hours. Yak-130 to replace A-5 for ground attack and AJT role for future Russian MRCA which is not happening anymore.



Thanks for the explanation bhai.



leonblack08 said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the 3 lost yaks were ordered for replacement to maintain full squadron. Has that been cancelled?



If the Bangladeshi higher ups were paid off, the chances would be zero. Russians know how to do business these days. They know a discount when they see one.

In fact the Russians agreed to replace at least one for free I heard - the crash of which was attributed to technical glitz.



Avicenna said:


> I wonder where those additional 7 K-8 are?
> 
> Have they been delivered?



Still sitting in China, one of our posters posted an image I believe in this thread some pages back.

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> K-8W to replace L-39Z and give pilots more flying hours. Yak-130 to replace A-5 for ground attack and AJT role for future Russian MRCA which is not happening anymore.



Totally not surprised that Russia will not be getting MRCA.
The 16 plane contract will go to West(more likely) or China(less likely).

They are not reliable against either Myanmar or India and their aviation tech is on the way down.

BD's days of buying major weapons systems from Russia are now over.

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## Michael Corleone

leonblack08 said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the 3 lost yaks were ordered for replacement to maintain full squadron. Has that been cancelled?


No orders are materialized yet but 16 more are being considered.



Dazzler said:


> Pathankot warriors...


One of the guys in the pic is a traitor for you guys no?



UKBengali said:


> Totally not surprised that Russia will not be getting MRCA.
> The 16 plane contract will go to West(more likely) or China(less likely).
> 
> They are not reliable against either Myanmar or India and their aviation tech is on the way down.
> 
> BD's days of buying major weapons systems from Russia are now over.


Chinese will get the single engine contract or maybe j31 in the 30s who knows

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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> One of the guys in the pic is a traitor for you guys no?


Wait, in a sense, aren't all Bangladeshis traitors from Pakistan point of view?

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## Destranator

Hachiman said:


> Wait, in a sense, aren't all Bangladeshis traitors from Pakistan point of view?
> View attachment 631755


Nope, no "sense" involved there



Michael Corleone said:


> One of the guys in the pic is a traitor for you guys no?


As a Bangladeshi, could you please not egg on this BS "perspective" of the ill-informed and risk initiating a shit-fest?
There are plenty of Pakistanis who know better.
They want to move on past the blunders of past rogue, zero-accountability military leaderships.
Let us allow them that room and improve relations.

There are areas where we can cooperate for mutual benefits of our commoners.

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## Michael Corleone

Hachiman said:


> Wait, in a sense, aren't all Bangladeshis traitors from Pakistan point of view?
> View attachment 631755


People who saved Lahore strapping mines on their chest, people who won the most amount of gallantry award in 65 war... hmm? Nope doesn’t make sense



Al-Ansar said:


> Nope, no "sense" involved there
> 
> 
> As a Bangladeshi, could you please not egg on this BS "perspective" of the ill-informed and risk initiating a shit-fest?
> There are plenty of Pakistanis who know better.
> They want to move on past the blunders of past rogue, zero-accountability military leaderships.
> Let us allow them that room and improve relations.
> 
> There are areas where we can cooperate for mutual benefits of our commoners.


No harm triggering bigots, you should try it sometimes


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## Michael Corleone

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> The day will be Glorious when PAF and BAF do joint Shaheen Excercises!!!


Indeed we’ve a lot to learn. Experience of 26th feb should help us better defend our skies

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## Bilal9

Al-Ansar said:


> Nope, no "sense" involved there
> 
> 
> As a Bangladeshi, could you please not egg on this BS "perspective" of the ill-informed and risk initiating a shit-fest?
> There are plenty of Pakistanis who know better.
> They want to move on past the blunders of past rogue, zero-accountability military leaderships.
> Let us allow them that room and improve relations.
> 
> There are areas where we can cooperate for mutual benefits of our commoners.



Very sensible post and to the point, Thanks Bhai.

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## The Ronin

BAF 99-5482 de-fuelled after ground runs yesterday afternoon and left in GRE afterwards out of wind. According to ElliotL- CBGSpotter, 99-5482 carried out engine runs with BAF crew yesterday, she was re-fueled in afternoon ahead of inevitable flight testing or delivery. Positioned into GRE and apparently remains in it. Last update 12 hours ago says 99-5482 still remains in GRE ready for her delivery or flight testing.

© Alexey Trailspotter

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> BAF 99-5482 de-fuelled after ground runs yesterday afternoon and left in GRE afterwards out of wind. According to ElliotL- CBGSpotter, 99-5482 carried out engine runs with BAF crew yesterday, she was re-fueled in afternoon ahead of inevitable flight testing or delivery. Positioned into GRE and apparently remains in it. Last update 12 hours ago says 99-5482 still remains in GRE ready for her delivery or flight testing.
> 
> © Alexey Trailspotter


They seem to have different propellers than the old ones we have, different engines too ?


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> They seem to have different propellers than the old ones we have, different engines too ?



Yes, new version uses Rolls-Royce AE 2100 D3 turboprop engines with six-bladed Dowty R391 composite scimitar propellers instead of Allison T56-A-7A turboprops with four-blade propellers used by C-130B/E.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_AE_2100

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## The Ronin

The second Bangladesh Air Force Lockheed C-130J (99-5482, S3-AGF) returning to Cambridge from a short test flight on May 13, 2020 at 12:35 UTC. It was the aircraft's first flight since arrival of the delivery crew from Bangladesh a few days ago.

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## alikazmi007

Its a beautiful bird indeed!

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

Update 15-May-2020. In the afternoon BAF 99-5482 was towed out of GRE and positioned at Customs apron.

© Alexey Trailspotter

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## Avicenna

Just a nice pic.

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## The Ronin

Update 16-May-2020.

Members of BAF crew visiting 99-5482 in the afternoon. Can't wait to see it landing in Dhaka.

© Alexey Trailspotter











Work on 2nd Bangladesh C-130 ready for delivery from Cambridge UK 14 May 2020.

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## The Ronin

And it's coming home.  Finally after a long long wait, Bangladesh Air Force C-130J 99-5482/S3-AGF is ready and on her way to Bangladesh. Seen here departing Cambridge airport on route to Cairo. 99-5482 is an ex RAF machine and the second of five sold to Bangladesh in an agreement with the UK. 

She was formally known as ZH884 but now sports full Bangladesh livery and regs. The first leg of the aircraft's flight to the new home started on May 18, 2020 at 11:00 UTC after a three-hour delay, during which heat haze at the airfield has built up.

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## The Ronin

BAF has welcomed it's second C-130J with water salute at BAF base Bangabandhu.




















__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=990183121399561






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262681709318897664

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

"গণপ্রজাতন্ত্রী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের মাননীয় প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার দিক নির্দেশনা ও ঐকান্তিক প্রচেষ্টায় বর্তমান সরকার বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর আধুনিকায়নে অত্যন্ত সচেষ্ট।"

Interesting choice of words!


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## Michael Corleone

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> "গণপ্রজাতন্ত্রী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের মাননীয় প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার দিক নির্দেশনা ও ঐকান্তিক প্রচেষ্টায় বর্তমান সরকার বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর আধুনিকায়নে অত্যন্ত সচেষ্ট।"
> 
> Interesting choice of words!


Lmao chamchami na korle to plane uraite parbe na

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Michael Corleone said:


> Lmao chamchami na korle to plane uraite parbe na


Even our armed forces are filled with boot lickers! We are fuked...

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## Michael Corleone

Abu Shaleh Rumi said:


> Even our armed forces are filled with boot lickers! We are fuked...


Perks of third world countries

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## Destranator

The fact that purchase of transport aircraft hogs headlines for years tells you everything about this pathetic organisation.

The government has been supportive of defence modernisation since 2007 (caretaker govt) yet these muppets are yet to induct any worthy fighter jets in the 13 years since.

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Al-Ansar said:


> The fact that purchase of transport aircraft hogs headlines for years tells you everything about this pathetic organisation.
> 
> The government has been supportive of defence modernisation since 2007 (caretaker govt) yet these muppets are yet to induct any worthy fighter jets in the 13 years since.


Boot lickers aren't known for their competence...


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## Michael Corleone

The announced order to be placed in this fiscal year, this fiscal year ends in 40 days


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> The announced order to be placed in this fiscal year, this fiscal year ends in 40 days



Defseca reports something substantial is about to go down, and considering the fact that the FY; like you said, ends in 40 days, I'm hoping this is it. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=158649859027859


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Defseca reports something substantial is about to go down, and considering the fact that the FY; like you said, ends in 40 days, I'm hoping this is it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=158649859027859


Fingers crossed.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Fingers crossed.



Likewise but I'm forcing myself to be skeptical, until we hear something concrete.

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## Incog_nito

is Baf looking to acquire western fighters like JAS39 and F-16? Like in small numbers?


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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Defseca reports something substantial is about to go down, and considering the fact that the FY; like you said, ends in 40 days, I'm hoping this is it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=158649859027859


10 billion dollars....where will they come from?


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## Avicenna

Not related to the BAF but I thought you guys might enjoy this!

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## The Ronin

Spotted inside the paint shop on 19th May is ZH887. It will be the fourth ex RAF C.5 to receive the Bangladesh Air Force colours.

© Alexey Trailspotter

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> Spotted inside the paint shop on 19th May is ZH887. It will be the fourth ex RAF C.5 to receive the Bangladesh Air Force colours.



Has the third one already been painted?


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## The Ronin

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Has the third one already been painted?



Went for it on 23rd March.

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> Went for it on 23rd March.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-540#post-12174412



Any clue as to when we can expect delivery?


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## Avicenna

I'm hoping though, BAF ACTUALLY buys something soon and DEFSECA is correct.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> Be nice man.
> 
> I'm hoping though, BAF ACTUALLY buys something soon and DEFSECA is correct.



FY ends in a month + change, we will found out soon enough.

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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> FY ends in a month + change, we will found out soon enough.


You need sth like that.








DalalErMaNodi said:


> Give for free


Yes it can happen but after Sheikh Hasina reign.


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## ghost250

JohnWick said:


> Don't act like smart....I did not want to say anything clear but you didn't understand this type of language....In real world, your selling of fishes,rices and even Tea will not give you 10billion $....*And somehow if you will gather this amount,India will not allow you to do so....India has completely compromised your military....to counter a possible threat....You are just making a fun out of your self by saying that we are buying F-16,F/A-18,J-10 or something else.*



after independence,india didnt allow us to have a military...india didnt allow us to join OIC..india didnt allow us to have a strong relationship with china,whether it be militarily or politically....india didnt allow us to have submarines..we have them now....we will surely have them(either it be typhoons or f-18s or j-10)....its only matter of time now..

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## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> Be nice man.
> 
> I'm hoping though, BAF ACTUALLY buys something soon and DEFSECA is correct.


I think the tender of 16 mrca declared by the President is enough to tackle Burmese aggression if those are EFTs. 

There is a high possibility of conflict with Myanmar in this decade.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> I think the tender of 16 mrca declared by the President is enough to tackle Burmese aggression if those are EFTs.
> 
> There is a high possibility of conflict with Myanmar in this decade.



Myanmar is not looking for a large scale escalation or a war, Simply because they can't endure one. Burmese economy cannot sustain a war against a country with many times the man power. 

And to what end, how will they benefit from engaging in hostilities with BD, while they already have internal conflicts to deal with.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> I think the tender of 16 mrca declared by the President is enough to tackle Burmese aggression if those are EFTs.
> 
> There is a high possibility of conflict with Myanmar in this decade.


I disagree, There might be small border disputes, but all-out war is unlikely. It would detrimental to Both Sides. For Bangladesh, it would ruin the economic success they have been seeing for the past few years, and for Myanmar it would only Destabilize the countries situation even further. Its in both countries self interest to keep the peace for the sake of keeping peace and not be pawns to the Indian and Chinese game.


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Myanmar is not looking for a large scale escalation or a war, Simply because they can't endure one. Burmese economy cannot sustain a war against a country with many times the man power.
> 
> And to what end, how will they benefit from engaging in hostilities with BD, while they already have internal conflicts to deal with.


I think Myanmar is going to throw some ballistic missiles in case of conflict with Bangladesh. They already have SY-400, Hwasong 5 and 6. 

If those are SRBMs of 300-500 kms, still it would be a problem for BD as Cox's bazaar to Dhaka is roughly 400 kms. 

But I hope war doesn't happen. Bad for both the countries.


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## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> I disagree, There might be small border disputes, but all-out war is unlikely. It would detrimental to Both Sides. For Bangladesh, it would ruin the economic success they have been seeing for the past few years, and for Myanmar it would only Destabilize the countries situation even further. Its in both countries self interest to keep the peace for the sake of keeping peace and not be pawns to the Indian and Chinese game.


The Rohingya situtation is becoming worse day by day. Eventually there might be conflicts if not a out war between Myanmar and Bangladesh

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## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> The Rohingya situtation is becoming worse day by day. Eventually, there might be conflicts if not an out war between Myanmar and Bangladesh


Politically, the Rohingya are just a liability, I doubt there would be any major conflict between the countries that arise because of it.


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## Nike

Buddhistforlife said:


> I think Myanmar is going to throw some ballistic missiles in case of conflict with Bangladesh. They already have SY-400, Hwasong 5 and 6.
> 
> If those are SRBMs of 300-500 kms, still it would be a problem for BD as Cox's bazaar to Dhaka is roughly 400 kms.
> 
> But I hope war doesn't happen. Bad for both the countries.



You know, Bangladesh can accept such damages and repairing their infrastructure easily. How many ballistic missile Myanmar had? How much bombs Myanmar Air Force being stockpilled? How much artillery shells Myanmar able to produce and stockpilled? Can they sustain prolonged deployment if needed be? Bangladesh got tonnes of small and medium scale factories to sustain their economy, and they had tonnes of critical infrastructure compared to Myanmar, they are more numerous. Myanmar cant afford that at all. Open Conflict with Bangladesh will only ruin Myanmar country

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## Aung Zaya

Nike said:


> You know, Bangladesh can accept such damages and repairing their infrastructure easily. How many ballistic missile Myanmar had? How much bombs Myanmar Air Force being stockpilled? How much artillery shells Myanmar able to produce and stockpilled? Can they sustain prolonged deployment if needed be? Bangladesh got tonnes of small and medium scale factories to sustain their economy, and they had tonnes of critical infrastructure compared to Myanmar, they are more numerous. Myanmar cant afford that at all. Open Conflict with Bangladesh will only ruin Myanmar country



yes.Agreed with u. In fact, Myanmar dont have intention to wage war against BD. We dont need BD's land and their population is massive and uncontrollable. So we have nothing to gain from waging war against BD. On the other hand, BD may need to accommodate their growing population and they want land from neighboring countries even from India. this kind of concept can be seen even in this forum. like greater bangladesh. Also, our Intel learnt that even senior military officers of BD had been influenced by this concept. In this scenario, if the war is initiated, the initiator would be BD, not us. for the defensive war, we have ammo stockpiles more than enough as well as defense industries to support.

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## Avicenna

Aung Zaya said:


> yes.Agreed with u. In fact, Myanmar dont have intention to wage war against BD. We dont need BD's land and their population is massive and uncontrollable. So we have nothing to gain from waging war against BD. On the other hand, BD may need to accommodate their growing population and they want land from neighboring countries even from India. this kind of concept can be seen even in this forum. like greater bangladesh. Also, our Intel learnt that even senior military officers of BD had been influenced by this concept. In this scenario, if the war is initiated, the initiator would be BD, not us. for the defensive war, we have ammo stockpiles more than enough as well as defense industries to support.



No one is trying to expand Bangladesh.

Also, you guys forced 700000+ people into Bangladeshi borders.

You guys violated BD air space with helicopters.

You guys "mislabeled" an island as yours when it belongs to Bangladesh. TWICE!

Bangladesh is completely defensive minded and if anything, TOO passive.

Whereas, you guys apparently are aspiring to be the next North Korea.

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## Tom-tom

Avicenna said:


> No one is trying to expand Bangladesh.
> 
> Also, you guys forced 700000+ people into Bangladeshi borders.
> 
> You guys violated BD air space with helicopters.
> 
> *You guys "mislabeled" an island as yours when it belongs to Bangladesh. TWICE!*
> 
> Bangladesh is completely defensive minded and if anything, TOO passive.
> 
> Whereas, you guys apparently are aspiring to be the next North Korea.



Don't forget about Myanmar taking a mineral exploration vessel in to bd waters and also trying to claim bd waters that is rightfully, ours, bd.

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## Aung Zaya

Avicenna said:


> No one is trying to expand Bangladesh.



well. i saw something like that many times in this forum. like taking advantage of growing muslim population from neighbouring states. this kind of concept can be seen in the posts of some members. 



Avicenna said:


> You guys violated BD air space with helicopters.


well.it was meant to support our force.we didnt violated ur air space. It is already clear in our provided flight path in press release at that time. dont panic. 



Avicenna said:


> Whereas, you guys apparently are aspiring to be the next North Korea.


wrong. we are inspiring Indonesia. trying to improve economy while building strong local defense industries.

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## Buddhistforlife

Nike said:


> You know, Bangladesh can accept such damages and repairing their infrastructure easily. How many ballistic missile Myanmar had? How much bombs Myanmar Air Force being stockpilled? How much artillery shells Myanmar able to produce and stockpilled? Can they sustain prolonged deployment if needed be? Bangladesh got tonnes of small and medium scale factories to sustain their economy, and they had tonnes of critical infrastructure compared to Myanmar, they are more numerous. Myanmar cant afford that at all. Open Conflict with Bangladesh will only ruin Myanmar country


You did not get what I have said. If Myanmar and Bangladesh fights a war, it would be like the Indo Pakistan war of 1999 or the Kargil war which was series of large scale border skirmishes. Invasion or destruction of infrastructure is out of question. This is not possible.



Nike said:


> You know, Bangladesh can accept such damages and repairing their infrastructure easily. How many ballistic missile Myanmar had? How much bombs Myanmar Air Force being stockpilled? How much artillery shells Myanmar able to produce and stockpilled? Can they sustain prolonged deployment if needed be? Bangladesh got tonnes of small and medium scale factories to sustain their economy, and they had tonnes of critical infrastructure compared to Myanmar, they are more numerous. Myanmar cant afford that at all. Open Conflict with Bangladesh will only ruin Myanmar country


"How many ballistic missile Myanmar had?"

Much is not known about Myanmar's ballistic missile inventory. Officially they have got SY-400 SRBM and some 11 Hwasong 6 SRBM. That's the offical only.

Unlike Bangladesh army, Indian army or Chinese army, the armed forces of Myanmar is pretty secretive like North Korea and works behind closed doors.

@Nike



Aung Zaya said:


> yes.Agreed with u. In fact, Myanmar dont have intention to wage war against BD. We dont need BD's land and their population is massive and uncontrollable. So we have nothing to gain from waging war against BD. On the other hand, BD may need to accommodate their growing population and they want land from neighboring countries even from India. this kind of concept can be seen even in this forum. like greater bangladesh. Also, our Intel learnt that even senior military officers of BD had been influenced by this concept. In this scenario, if the war is initiated, the initiator would be BD, not us. for the defensive war, we have ammo stockpiles more than enough as well as defense industries to support.


Bangladesh is not a country who can play or support proxy wars. Insurgents in Myanmar mostly either gets Western support or Chinese support

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> after independence,india didnt allow us to have a military...india didnt allow us to join OIC..india didnt allow us to have a strong relationship with china,whether it be militarily or politically....india didnt allow us to have submarines..we have them now....we will surely have them(either it be typhoons or f-18s or j-10)....its only matter of time now..


@JohnWick do you know those bastards of mujibnagar govt. signed agreement with india barring bangladesh from maintaining any form of military after independence? Sheikh Mujib disagreed and worked to establish the armed force. now every guy during that time was controversial... but gotto hand it to Shiekh Mujib for his work. The bastards of mujibnagar govt. the sellouts died like dogs in prison... imo a much worse death than being killed at your own home



Aung Zaya said:


> yes.Agreed with u. In fact, Myanmar dont have intention to wage war against BD. We dont need BD's land and their population is massive and uncontrollable. So we have nothing to gain from waging war against BD. On the other hand, BD may need to accommodate their growing population and they want land from neighboring countries even from India. this kind of concept can be seen even in this forum. like greater bangladesh. Also, our Intel learnt that even senior military officers of BD had been influenced by this concept. In this scenario, if the war is initiated, the initiator would be BD, not us. for the defensive war, we have ammo stockpiles more than enough as well as defense industries to support.


lmao out fertility rate is 2 per woman... whereas rohyngas from your country that y'all couldn't protect produces like rabbits... if any country faces overpopulation problem due to growth.... it's you guys



Aung Zaya said:


> wrong. we are inspiring Indonesia. trying to improve economy while building strong local defense industries.


to be indonesia you've to first be bangladesh... then thailand and maybe then indonesia... long way to go rookie... so try to be like us first


Aung Zaya said:


> well.it was meant to support our force.we didnt violated ur air space. It is already clear in our provided flight path in press release at that time. dont panic.


a press that's controlled by the army? that denies any genocide taking place in myanmar? ok i believe you

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> @JohnWick do you know those bastards of mujibnagar govt. signed agreement with india barring bangladesh from maintaining any form of military after independence? Sheikh Mujib disagreed and worked to establish the armed force. now every guy during that time was controversial... but gotto hand it to Shiekh Mujib for his work. The bastards of mujibnagar govt. the sellouts died like dogs in prison... imo a much worse death than being killed at your own home
> 
> 
> lmao out fertility rate is 2 per woman... whereas rohyngas from your country that y'all couldn't protect produces like rabbits... if any country faces overpopulation problem due to growth.... it's you guys


"lmao out fertility rate is 2 per woman... "

I was trying to explain the same thing to many people who say that Bangladeshis produces kids like cats and dogs. 

The population of Bangladesh is somewhat 165 million not more than that. Most of the population growth in Bangladesh took place between mid 1970s to mid 1990s. Currently Bangladesh have some of the lowest fertility rate in the world.

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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bangladesh is not a country who can play or support proxy wars. Insurgents in Myanmar mostly either gets Western support or Chinese support


where do you think arakan army gets its ammunition supply from? definitely american stash but where does it enter myanmar from? 



Buddhistforlife said:


> "How many ballistic missile Myanmar had?"
> 
> Much is not known about Myanmar's ballistic missile inventory. Officially they have got SY-400 SRBM and some 11 Hwasong 6 SRBM. That's the offical only.
> 
> Unlike Bangladesh army, Indian army or Chinese army, the armed forces of Myanmar is pretty secretive like North Korea and works behind closed doors.


although we've heard news on SY400, we are yet to see these in pictures... like we did with jf-17.... so until we see clear evidence of their purchase i think it's stupid to take word of some online journal as gospel

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> where do you think arakan army gets its ammunition supply from? definitely american stash but where does it enter myanmar from?
> 
> 
> although we've heard news on SY400, we are yet to see these in pictures... like we did with jf-17.... so until we see clear evidence of their purchase i think it's stupid to take word of some online journal as gospel


Arakan army is a threat for both Bangladesh and Myanmar. Arakan army wants to create a separate state for Rakhines and they fight both the Bangladesh army and Myanmar army.



Michael Corleone said:


> where do you think arakan army gets its ammunition supply from? definitely american stash but where does it enter myanmar from?
> 
> 
> although we've heard news on SY400, we are yet to see these in pictures... like we did with jf-17.... so until we see clear evidence of their purchase i think it's stupid to take word of some online journal as gospel



There are photos of JF-17 in Google. SY-400 was mentioned in a Wikipedia page but I did not see any photo of Burmese SY-400.

Also tbh it is difficult to say what Myanmar have or does not have. The Tatmadaw is like North Korea. You will rarely find any article or blog related to the activities of the Tatmadaw whereas Bangladesh army, Indian army and Pakistan army has been highlighted comprehensively


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## The Ronin

Aung Zaya said:


> yes.Agreed with u. In fact, Myanmar dont have intention to wage war against BD. We dont need BD's land and their population is massive and uncontrollable. So we have nothing to gain from waging war against BD. On the other hand, BD may need to accommodate their growing population and they want land from neighboring countries even from India. this kind of concept can be seen even in this forum. like greater bangladesh. Also, our Intel learnt that even senior military officers of BD had been influenced by this concept. In this scenario, if the war is initiated, the initiator would be BD, not us. for the defensive war, we have ammo stockpiles more than enough as well as defense industries to support.



You and your stupid BS intel.  Who are you? Who fed you this BS? You are just another civilian ranting in PDF.  Quit living in illusion. Except some guys in PDF and social media from both sides, no one's really thinking about invading anyone.

Can't say the same about you as @Avicenna already mentioned some of your aggression toward us beside abducting, shooting and killing our fishermen-BGB soldier in Naf river and sea, violating int'l laws at border. Or have you forgetten about how you tried to build dam on Naf river by violating the treaty you signed with us while we were part of Pakistan or this map your fanboys created?

Contrary to these, how much shit Bangladesh did to you with/without provocation? Can you say the same about us? We even handed over you men peacefully. So how stop talking about your BS intel.

https://www.newagebd.net/article/5708/4-bangladeshi-fishermen-shot-by-myanmar-navy
https://tbsnews.net/bangladesh/myanmar-navy-kills-bangladeshi-fisherman
https://www.refworld.org/docid/58f9cab513.html
https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/...ands-over-detained-myanmar-bgp-man-1551611492
http://unb.com.bd/category/Bangladesh/bgb-returns-four-bgp-members-to-myanmar/27556









Aung Zaya said:


> we didnt violated ur air space.



Of course you didn't.  Those were just UFOs, our newspaper just wrote some propaganda based one some BS "intel" like yours and we called your envoy just for tea-party. 

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...sh-protests-myanmar-choppers-violate-airspace
https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2017/09/15/myanmar-violates-bangladesh-airspace-again-dhaka-protests













Buddhistforlife said:


> I think Myanmar is going to throw some ballistic missiles in case of conflict with Bangladesh. They already have SY-400, Hwasong 5 and 6.
> 
> If those are SRBMs of 300-500 kms, still it would be a problem for BD as Cox's bazaar to Dhaka is roughly 400 kms.



They do not have SY-400 yet as no one confirmed about delivery. Let Burmese military reveal their SY-400 first. I doubt those few Hwasong 5, 6 have their service life left and even if they do, their accuracy isn't that good as they are Scud variant.

Bangladesh Army is more secretive than Indian, Myanmar army. People bash BD Military/DefSeca and other local sources every time and you are saying BD Army is not secretive. 



Michael Corleone said:


> where do you think arakan army gets its ammunition supply from? definitely american stash but where does it enter myanmar from?



They just take shelter in our remote territory where BGB-army can't patrol. We don't help them. They get their arms-ammo from black market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Bangladesh–Arakan_Army_border_clash

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## Buddhistforlife

The Ronin said:


> You and your stupid BS intel.  Who are you? Who fed you this BS? You are just another civilian ranting in PDF.  Quit living in illusion. Except some guys in PDF and social media from both sides, no one's really thinking about invading anyone.
> 
> Can't say the same about you as @Avicenna already mentioned some of your aggression toward us beside abducting, shooting and killing our fishermen-BGB soldier in Naf river and sea, violating int'l laws at border. Or have you forgetten about how you tried to build dam on Naf river by violating the treaty you signed with us while we were part of Pakistan or this map your fanboys created?
> 
> Contrary to these, how much shit Bangladesh did to you with/without provocation? Can you say the same about us? We even handed over you men peacefully. So how stop talking about your BS intel.
> 
> https://www.newagebd.net/article/5708/4-bangladeshi-fishermen-shot-by-myanmar-navy
> https://tbsnews.net/bangladesh/myanmar-navy-kills-bangladeshi-fisherman
> https://www.refworld.org/docid/58f9cab513.html
> https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/...ands-over-detained-myanmar-bgp-man-1551611492
> http://unb.com.bd/category/Bangladesh/bgb-returns-four-bgp-members-to-myanmar/27556
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you didn't.  Those were just UFOs, our newspaper just wrote some propaganda based one some BS "intel" like yours and we called your envoy just for tea-party.
> 
> https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...sh-protests-myanmar-choppers-violate-airspace
> https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2017/09/15/myanmar-violates-bangladesh-airspace-again-dhaka-protests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They do not have SY-400 yet as no one confirmed about delivery. Let Burmese military reveal their SY-400 first. I doubt those few Hwasong 5, 6 have their service life left and even if they do, their accuracy isn't that good as they are Scud variant.
> 
> Bangladesh Army is more secretive than Indian, Myanmar army. People bash BD Military/DefSeca and other local sources every time and you are saying BD Army is not secretive.
> 
> 
> 
> They just take shelter in our remote territory where BGB-army can't patrol. We don't help them. They get their arms-ammo from black market.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Bangladesh–Arakan_Army_border_clash


The secrets I was talking about are related to ballistic missiles. It has been confirmed that Myanmar has ballistic missiles but what is not known is that how many they have and are they even efficient or not. You talked about Hwasong 6 missiles.Officially Myanmar has 11 of these missiles however no on can tell if Myanmar government has increased the inventory of their scud missiles or are they still operating the same 11 Hwasong 6 from the 1980s.

Myanmar has been accused of acquiring ballistic missile technology from North Korea however the Myanmar government denied it every time. Similarly the procurement of SY-400 might be or might not be true. 

What I am trying to say is that if these news regarding Myanmar buying SRBM(Particularly SY-400) and MRBM from North Korea is true then they have a good ballistic missile base. On the other hand if these news are false then Myanmar is absolutely a puny nation nothing to worry about. 

One can not make speculation without solid proof.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> The secrets I was talking about are related to ballistic missiles. It has been confirmed that Myanmar has ballistic missiles but what is not known is that how many they have and are they even efficient or not. You talked about Hwasong 6 missiles.Officially Myanmar has 11 of these missiles however no on can tell if Myanmar government has increased the inventory of their scud missiles or are they still operating the same 11 Hwasong 6 from the 1980s.
> 
> Myanmar has been accused of acquiring ballistic missile technology from North Korea however the Myanmar government denied it every time. Similarly the procurement of SY-400 might be or might not be true.
> 
> What I am trying to say is that if these news regarding Myanmar buying SRBM(Particularly SY-400) and MRBM from North Korea is true then they have a good ballistic missile base. On the other hand if these news are false then Myanmar is absolutely a puny nation nothing to worry about.
> 
> One can not make speculation without solid proof.



Myanmar doesn't want direct conflict with Bangladesh, their military doctrine is mostly geared towards internal suppression of separatist groups. 

They have military generals at the helm of the country, sometimes such people get a little adventurous and try to carry out calculated escalations.


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Myanmar doesn't want direct conflict with Bangladesh, their military doctrine is mostly geared towards internal suppression of separatist groups.
> 
> They have military generals at the helm of the country, sometimes such people get a little adventurous and try to carry out calculated escalations.


You are right. But Myanmar is not building their military to tackle internal insurgencies but to counter the Rohingya issue. 

Myanmar military has been aggressively procuring military hardwares since the Rohingya chaos of 2012 and 2015. This was not the case before. 

Due to the Rohingya issue, Myanmar has been internationally scrutinized and the Western nations are well aware of the Rohingya crisis and the magnitude of human rights violation. 

I think the Burmese generals are afraid that one day the international community may become tired and might conduct military operations inside Myanmar just like during the Bosnian war in order to stop the genocide of Rohingyas. They fear that Myanmar might receive the same fate as Yugoslavia. 

So I would not be surprised even if Myanmar bought some ballistic missiles.


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## bluesky

Buddhistforlife said:


> I think the tender of 16 mrca declared by the President is enough to tackle Burmese aggression if those are EFTs.
> 
> There is a high possibility of conflict with Myanmar in this decade.


Where do you see Burmese aggression? And to tackle Burma is it necessary to purchase war planes? Please read the past history to know the reality. The issue is the lack of politiocal will of the govt to pursue the Rohingya issue with Burma. 

Someone at top feels threatened if some military officers becoming famous after successfully engaging Burma. Even 200 MRCA will not change anything.

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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> lmao out fertility rate is 2 per woman... whereas rohyngas from your country that y'all couldn't protect produces like rabbits... *if any country faces overpopulation problem due to growth*.... it's you guys


lol dont worry about overpopulation of Myanmar. we're living in a country which is 3.5 times larger than yours while 3.5 time lower population. more than enough for each person to produce crops and for a living. obviously, BD is already well-known with overpopulation problems. not us.



Michael Corleone said:


> to be indonesia you've to first be bangladesh... then thailand and maybe then indonesia... long way to go rookie... so try to be like us first



well. I said we are following Indonesia model which support both economy and local defense industries. even Thailand is following this way by strengthening local defense industries. not talking about GDP or blah blah blah.



Michael Corleone said:


> a press that's controlled by the army? that denies any genocide taking place in myanmar? ok i believe you


believe it or not. we supported with flight path at the time. for G, even UN have not recognized it and still probing the situation.



Michael Corleone said:


> where do you think arakan army gets its ammunition supply from? definitely american stash but where does it enter myanmar from?



lol ok. best wish for ur refugee camps where could be major arm trade hub in the future and meeting points of rebel groups who have arms but no money and drug traders who have tons of money but need arms. Good luck.



The Ronin said:


> You and your stupid BS intel.  Who are you? Who fed you this BS? You are just another civilian ranting in PDF.  Quit living in illusion. Except some guys in PDF and social media from both sides, no one's really thinking about invading anyone.



we know what we do.  u will know later.



The Ronin said:


> part of Pakistan or this map your fanboys created


that map is the aftermath after u guys start posting shits the same map with bd flag mentioning bangladesh on both countries. posted by ur famous defense page called bangladesh defense. now that page may got banned by ur gov.



The Ronin said:


> https://www.newagebd.net/article/5708/4-bangladeshi-fishermen-shot-by-myanmar-navy



lol so dont cross the line. go fish in ur side. Even in the last case, ur CG itself already warned repeatedly them not to go Myanmar side. Did they listen it ? Even before shooting, we already warned them to stop. Did they listen it ? So dont blame us for the consequences. Same rule also applied for ur BGB as well.

https://www.banglatribune.com/country/news/617770/মিয়ানমারের-নৌবাহিনীর-গুলিতে-বাংলাদেশি-৬-জেলে-আহত?fbclid=IwAR1CMyn-U5kihZcp7t5l_ZwfQSZbqYXdb2FAFxnXpny0Evz6sIWBlhsBFtA




The Ronin said:


> Of course you didn't.  Those were just UFOs, our newspaper just wrote some propaganda based one some BS "intel" like yours and we called your envoy just for tea-party.
> 
> https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...sh-protests-myanmar-choppers-violate-airspace
> https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2017/09/15/myanmar-violates-bangladesh-airspace-again-dhaka-protests



well it is civilian chopper and obviously flying in our side ( the other side of the river) . Dont panic.


The Ronin said:


> They do not have SY-400 yet as no one confirmed about delivery. Let Burmese military reveal their SY-400 first. I doubt those few Hwasong 5, 6 have their service life left and even if they do, their accuracy isn't that good as they are Scud variant.



yes. we have nothing. hwasong 5 or 6 is a joke. military tunnels and underground bases are meant for baking some cookies. now happy and feel good ?



The Ronin said:


> Bangladesh Army is more secretive than Indian, Myanmar army. People bash BD Military/DefSeca and other local sources every time and you are saying BD Army is not secretive.



yes, BD is secretive. just displayed from scale models of smallest boat to all the things what u have including dummy anti-ship missiles and CMS even carrying with trucks to public parade.


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## Buddhistforlife

bluesky said:


> Where do you see Burmese aggression? And to tackle Burma is it necessary to purchase war planes? Please read the past history to know the reality. The issue is the lack of politiocal will of the govt to pursue the Rohingya issue with Burma.
> 
> Someone at top feels threatened if some military officers becoming famous after successfully engaging Burma. Even 200 MRCA will not change anything.


Rohingya crisis itself is an aggression. Can Bangladesh afford to feed 2 million Rohingya till eternity? No.

*"Someone at top feels threatened if some military officers becoming famous after successfully engaging Burma"*

I don't think so. In the past, Burma was a closed country without any type of international support. Back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s, Burma was something different and after 2012, it's something else. After becoming more open, Burma now managed to attract investments from neighbouring states and is becoming a geo strategic tool for China, India and others.

Also the Rohingyas did not land in Bangladesh in 2012, 2015 or 2017. They came here in bulk in 1991 and then afterwards in small quantity. President Ershad and BNP were rulers of Bangladesh back then. Why didn't they take action. I would not blame BAL alone.



Aung Zaya said:


> lol dont worry about overpopulation of Myanmar. we're living in a country which is 3.5 times larger than yours while 3.5 time lower population. more than enough for each person to produce crops and for a living. obviously, BD is already well-known with overpopulation problems. not us.
> 
> 
> 
> well. I said we are following Indonesia model which support both economy and local defense industries. even Thailand is following this way by strengthening local defense industries. not talking about GDP or blah blah blah.
> 
> 
> believe it or not. we supported with flight path at the time. for G, even UN have not recognized it and still probing the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> lol ok. best wish for ur refugee camps where could be major arm trade hub in the future and meeting points of rebel groups who have arms but no money and drug traders who have tons of money but need arms. Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> we know what we do.  u will know later.
> 
> 
> that map is the aftermath after u guys start posting shits the same map with bd flag mentioning bangladesh on both countries. posted by ur famous defense page called bangladesh defense. now that page may got banned by ur gov.
> 
> 
> 
> lol so dont cross the line. go fish in ur side. Even in the last case, ur CG itself already warned repeatedly them not to go Myanmar side. Did they listen it ? Even before shooting, we already warned them to stop. Did they listen it ? So dont blame us for the consequences. Same rule also applied for ur BGB as well.
> 
> https://www.banglatribune.com/country/news/617770/মিয়ানমারের-নৌবাহিনীর-গুলিতে-বাংলাদেশি-৬-জেলে-আহত?fbclid=IwAR1CMyn-U5kihZcp7t5l_ZwfQSZbqYXdb2FAFxnXpny0Evz6sIWBlhsBFtA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well it is civilian chopper and obviously flying in our side ( the other side of the river) . Dont panic.
> 
> 
> yes. we have nothing. hwasong 5 or 6 is a joke. military tunnels and underground bases are meant for baking some cookies. now happy and feel good ?
> 
> 
> 
> yes, BD is secretive. just displayed from scale models of smallest boat to all the things what u have including dummy anti-ship missiles and CMS even carrying with trucks to public parade.


@Aung Zaya tbh many people thinks that Hwasong 6 is a useless scud missile. However they don't realise that Hwasong 6 can be modified and it can be converted into a MRBM. North Korea's Hwasong 9 missiles are modified versions of Hwasong 6

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## Aung Zaya

The Ronin said:


> That was just one time in the SEA. What about rest of the stuff? Hmmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhhhh i didn't know civilian can afford and fly Mi-17, AW-139 and drones where conflict is happening.  Wonder why Amnesty had to go through all that trouble to take satellite image of Rakhaine instead of take aerial footage from drone.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhhhh i didn't know those are "super-duper" secret weapon!!  OMG!! What have we done!!  We revealed everything to you!!  I am extremely shocked how intelligent species you are!!  Amazing IQ level you have!!


Nahhhh. Dont say like that. Just lol when u convince us BD which is floating tenders for most of its procurements in their website , revealing most of its items in public shows, become more secretive state in military affair than Myanmar. BTW, Have u ever seen our military tenders ?



Buddhistforlife said:


> tbh many people thinks that Hwasong 6 is a useless scud missile. However they don't realise that Hwasong 6 can be modified and it can be converted into a MRBM. North Korea's Hwasong 9 missiles are modified versions of Hwasong 6



It does not matter. Let they think Myanmar is weak and have nothing. It is better for us.

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## MINN

The Ronin said:


> That was just one time in the SEA. What about rest of the stuff? Hmmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhhhh i didn't know civilian can afford and fly Mi-17, AW-139 and drones where conflict is happening.  Wonder why Amnesty had to go through all that trouble to take satellite image of Rakhaine instead of take aerial footage from drone.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhhhh i didn't know those are "super-duper" secret weapon!!  OMG!! What have we done!!  We revealed everything to you!!  I am extremely shocked how intelligent species you are!!  Amazing IQ level you have!!


Actually there are quite a lot of civilian helicopters owned by corporations like the KBZ group. The particular helicopter seen in the photo is owned by Heli-union Myanmar.

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## DalalErMaNodi

MINN said:


> Actually there are quite a lot of civilian helicopters owned by corporations like the KBZ group. The particular helicopter seen in the photo is owned by Heli-union Myanmar.
> View attachment 634806



Why so many foreigners? are they the pilots?

Oh the people are photoshopped.


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## MINN

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Why so many foreigners? are they the pilots?
> 
> Oh the people are photoshopped.


Yes they are the pilot. They even have a facebook page. They chater helicopter in Myanmar for various things but mainly for supplying off short rigs.
http://www.heli-union.com/heli-union-starts-helicopter-operations-client-offshore-myanmar/


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## ghost250

Buddhistforlife said:


> You are right. But Myanmar is not building their military to tackle internal insurgencies but to counter the Rohingya issue.
> 
> Myanmar military has been aggressively procuring military hardwares since the Rohingya chaos of 2012 and 2015. This was not the case before.
> 
> Due to the Rohingya issue, Myanmar has been internationally scrutinized and the Western nations are well aware of the Rohingya crisis and the magnitude of human rights violation.
> 
> I think the Burmese generals are afraid that one day the international community may become tired and might conduct military operations inside Myanmar just like during the Bosnian war in order to stop the genocide of Rohingyas. They fear that Myanmar might receive the same fate as Yugoslavia.
> 
> *So I would not be surprised even if Myanmar bought some ballistic missiles.*



few ancient scuds wont save them if western powers want to intervene....saddam hussain had huge stockpile of scuds..but at the end those couldnt save saddam...


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## Nike

You know, Scud, Hwasong and other Nork or early Iranian types of Ballistic missiles usually depend on inertial navigation guidance system and DSMCA, hence the accuracy is far cry from system who using Satellite based Global Pointer Navigation system like GPS, Beidou or Glonass or active Radar Homing Guidance. With such terrible accuracy the only thing you will destroyed is population center and civilian living space, the case is in Afghanistan Civil war, between 1988-1992 DRA itself launching almost 2000 Scuds B/C missile and still can't give a shit toward enemy bases and training camps and other military facilities, same case happened during Iran-Iraq so called war of cities, limited result in the whole campaign and only increased civilian casualties is not that good toward war efforts unless you are engaging in kind of Total War. 

Unless you got something in the class of Tomahawk , Kalibr missile, Hyunmoo 3 and so on, the effect of Ballistic missile in war effort is very limited. 

I just don;t said, in ASEAN not only Vietnam and Myanmar had acquired Ballistic Missile capability, furthermore there is one with land based system Cruise missile capability

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## Buddhistforlife

ghost250 said:


> few ancient scuds wont save them if western powers want to intervene....saddam hussain had huge stockpile of scuds..but at the end those couldnt save saddam...


As I told earlier no one knows anything about Burmese ballistic missiles. In the past UN accused Burma of buying ballistic missile technology from North Korea and China. Some people think its a propaganda, just like Iraq's chemical weapons program while other thinks it is true. But who knows what's right.

The ancient missiles you are referring to are the 11 Hwasong 6 missiles. Yes they are very old and not so much capable missiles, however no one knows whether the missiles are still the same cause Hwasong 6 can be modified like increasing operational range etc. Also know one knows whether Myanmar bought more missiles after acquiring those 11 missiles. 

So yes Myanmar's ballistic missile program needs more research. I cannot say anything about it.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> As I told earlier no one knows anything about Burmese ballistic missiles. In the past UN accused Burma of buying ballistic missile technology from North Korea and China. Some people think its a propaganda, just like Iraq's chemical weapons program while other thinks it is true. But who knows what's right.
> 
> The ancient missiles you are referring to are the 11 Hwasong 6 missiles. Yes they are very old and not so much capable missiles, however no one knows whether the missiles are still the same cause Hwasong 6 can be modified like increasing operational range etc. Also know one knows whether Myanmar bought more missiles after acquiring those 11 missiles.
> 
> So yes Myanmar's ballistic missile program needs more research. I cannot say anything about it.



One cannot simply use ballistic missiles, especially if they old ones which may not hit the intended tartget. The moment Myanmar's rockets hit a population centre is the moment China stop giving a **** and then the rest will be history. Westerners will intervene and each separatist group will stake their claim and the country as we know it will cease to exist.


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> One cannot simply use ballistic missiles, especially if they old ones which may not hit the intended tartget. The moment Myanmar's rockets hit a population centre is the moment China stop giving a **** and then the rest will be history. Westerners will intervene and each separatist group will stake their claim and the country as we know it will cease to exist.


Also Myanmar have history of denying any accusations which later turned out to be true. Myanmar say that they don't have chemical weapons but mustard gas was used on Karen rebels. So likewise you cannot take it for granted when Burmese generals say that they have nothing related to ballistic missile in their country.

Its like Bashar Al Assad who denied having any chemical weapons but he used chemical gas against his own people.


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## Aung Zaya

MINN said:


> Actually there are quite a lot of civilian helicopters owned by corporations like the KBZ group. The particular helicopter seen in the photo is owned by Heli-union Myanmar.
> View attachment 634806



Air Myanmar owned by Htoo Group. Seem like they dont even know operating helicopters in corporations is quite normal in these days.


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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> lol dont worry about overpopulation of Myanmar. we're living in a country which is 3.5 times larger than yours while 3.5 time lower population. more than enough for each person to produce crops and for a living. obviously, BD is already well-known with overpopulation problems. not us


Bd suffers from population density in Dhaka, rest of Bangladesh has fairly less people. That can be solved with building new cities with good urban planning, purbachal is going to be the solution 


Aung Zaya said:


> lol ok. best wish for ur refugee camps where could be major arm trade hub in the future and meeting points of rebel groups who have arms but no money and drug traders who have tons of money but need arms. Good luck.


we’ll such is the case because Burmese have he knacker for making their problem others problem. 


Aung Zaya said:


> well. I said we are following Indonesia model which support both economy and local defense industries. even Thailand is following this way by strengthening local defense industries. not talking about GDP or blah blah blah


Without a strong economy you can’t support local economy with local defense industries you muppet



The Ronin said:


> They just take shelter in our remote territory where BGB-army can't patrol. We don't help them. They get their arms-ammo from black market.


Bangladesh in logical sense wouldn’t allow these remote areas to be utilized by these people given the beef they endured with shanti bahini in the 80s but they do... not officially ofc but if Bangladeshi govt had zero tolerance towards this then refuge would have been impossible just like the jihadist...

and the support is American given they’re all kit out with American rifles and whatnot. Ofc the govt. would officially deny this I reckon



Buddhistforlife said:


> Arakan army is a threat for both Bangladesh and Myanmar. Arakan army wants to create a separate state for Rakhines and they fight both the Bangladesh army and Myanmar army.


Ariana army is not engaged in war with Bangladeshi govt. their operation is based on the Arabian and rakhine state 



Buddhistforlife said:


> There are photos of JF-17 in Google. SY-400 was mentioned in a Wikipedia page but I did not see any photo of Burmese SY-400.
> 
> Also tbh it is difficult to say what Myanmar have or does not have. The Tatmadaw is like North Korea. You will rarely find any article or blog related to the activities of the Tatmadaw whereas Bangladesh army, Indian army and Pakistan army has been highlighted comprehensively


Quite contrary, Burmese officials gladly show off their intentions and procurement through pictures and media... its quite difficult to source reliable information of procurement plans in Bangladesh tbh, defseca gets the flak for mentioning every fighter in the bloc but what we forget to realize is those fighters were all considered and nearly inked until something or the other made the plans fall through... comparing Burma with NK would be insulting imo 
As for bd, 40 days countdown, if you don’t hear any procurement news on the fighters then EFT deal fell through (this time I hope defseca doesn’t get flak, as British high commissioner himself expressed Britain’s interest will supplying bd with fighter jets)


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## The Ronin

Aung Zaya said:


> Nahhhh. Dont say like that. Just lol when u convince us BD which is floating tenders for most of its procurements in their website , revealing most of its items in public shows, become more secretive state in military affair than Myanmar. BTW, Have u ever seen our military tenders ?



Use your brain for a moment, will ya? Nothing DGDP issues tender for is that kind of important or have to be secret. Those can be in reveled supplier/buyer announcement, ISPR or parade. Submarine, secret base, building nuclear, bio-chemical weapon, missile, fighter jet can be secret. For example when BD bought two sub or signed deal for sub-base it came to light after long time, even navy official didn't know that deal was signed.

Military doesn't buy everything through tender. Some stuff comes through G2G deal. And tender process gives more transparency which you military doesn't have. Not to mention that you have arms embargo on you.



MINN said:


> Actually there are quite a lot of civilian helicopters owned by corporations like the KBZ group. The particular helicopter seen in the photo is owned by Heli-union Myanmar.



That still doesn't explain why you violated our airspace. Don't tell me to believe that civilian flies Mi-17 with military camo and drone and that's even during Rohingya crisis in that area.


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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd suffers from population density in Dhaka, rest of Bangladesh has fairly less people. That can be solved with building new cities with good urban planning, purbachal is going to be the solution
> 
> we’ll such is the case because Burmese have he knacker for making their problem others problem.
> 
> Without a strong economy you can’t support local economy with local defense industries you muppet
> 
> 
> Bangladesh in logical sense wouldn’t allow these remote areas to be utilized by these people given the beef they endured with shanti bahini in the 80s but they do... not officially ofc but if Bangladeshi govt had zero tolerance towards this then refuge would have been impossible just like the jihadist...
> 
> and the support is American given they’re all kit out with American rifles and whatnot. Ofc the govt. would officially deny this I reckon
> 
> 
> Ariana army is not engaged in war with Bangladeshi govt. their operation is based on the Arabian and rakhine state
> 
> 
> Quite contrary, Burmese officials gladly show off their intentions and procurement through pictures and media... its quite difficult to source reliable information of procurement plans in Bangladesh tbh, defseca gets the flak for mentioning every fighter in the bloc but what we forget to realize is those fighters were all considered and nearly inked until something or the other made the plans fall through... comparing Burma with NK would be insulting imo
> As for bd, 40 days countdown, if you don’t hear any procurement news on the fighters then EFT deal fell through (this time I hope defseca doesn’t get flak, as British high commissioner himself expressed Britain’s interest will supplying bd with fighter jets)


Who told you Arakan army does not fight Bangladesh army. In 2015 the Arakan army had clash with Bangladeshi soldiers and many of their equipment and some horses were taken into custody. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Bangladesh–Arakan_Army_border_clash

The Arakan army wants to create a separate state like jummaland and this new state of theirs also incude Bandarban and Khagarachari.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Any (mis) adventurism in CHT will be dealt with appreciatrly. If the army lets small incidents slide don't worry, our local bangalis who live in CHT won't have mercy.

Besides the era of Shanti bahini is over, the army has worked hard to build trust and respect with the locals. I doubt the locals will try anything funny now, because they know they stand to lose the most if they try.


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## Buddhistforlife

The Ronin said:


> Use your brain for a moment, will ya? Nothing DGDP issues tender for is that kind of important or have to be secret. Those can be in reveled supplier/buyer announcement, ISPR or parade. Submarine, secret base, building nuclear, bio-chemical weapon, missile, fighter jet can be secret. For example when BD bought two sub or signed deal for sub-base it came to light after long time, even navy official didn't know that deal was signed.
> 
> Military doesn't buy everything through tender. Some stuff comes through G2G deal. And tender process gives more transparency which you military doesn't have. Not to mention that you have arms embargo on you.
> 
> 
> 
> That still doesn't explain why you violated our airspace. Don't tell me to believe that civilian flies Mi-17 with military camo and drone and that's even during Rohingya crisis in that area.


When I am referred to "secrets" I was talking about any possibilities of DPRK-Myanmar co operation in developing Myanmar's ballistic missile capabilities. UN and the west accused Myanmar of buying missiles from North Korea. The point I was trying to make is that *North Korea is under sanction and cannot supply weapons-be it conventional or unconventional. So even if Myanmar buys any weapon not necessarily ballistic missiles, then it would be a secret. 
*

Moreover I do not agree with you when you said that Burmese generals have a habit of spilling out beans. Myanmar has horrible press freedom. In 2014 some journalists reported on a possible chemical weapons factory in Burma after which they were jailed(possibly put to death)



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Any (mis) adventurism in CHT will be dealt with appreciatrly. If the army lets small incidents slide don't worry, our *local bangalis who live in CHT won't have mercy.*
> 
> Besides the era of Shanti bahini is over, the army has worked hard to build trust and respect with the locals. I doubt the locals will try anything funny now, because they know they stand to lose the most if they try.



*"local bangalis who live in CHT won't have mercy"*

I do not agree with you. Bengali civilians should not be involved in any sort of conflict. 

Remember Bangladesh is a Muslim majority country and many Islamophobes, especially Indians and Europeans accuses Bangladesh of being a radical islamic state who are persecuting minorities. If there are any Bengali-Tribal riot in CHT then it will strengthen the position of Islamophobes. So the CHT conflict should be dealt by the army alone.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> When I am referred to "secrets" I was talking about any possibilities of DPRK-Myanmar co operation in developing Myanmar's ballistic missile capabilities. UN and the west accused Myanmar of buying missiles from North Korea. The point I was trying to make is that *North Korea is under sanction and cannot supply weapons-be it conventional or unconventional. So even if Myanmar buys any weapon not necessarily ballistic missiles, then it would be a secret.
> *
> 
> Moreover I do not agree with you when you said that Burmese generals have a habit of spilling out beans. Myanmar has horrible press freedom. In 2014 some journalists reported on a possible chemical weapons factory in Burma after which they were jailed(possibly put to death)
> 
> 
> 
> *"local bangalis who live in CHT won't have mercy"*
> 
> I do not agree with you. Bengali civilians should not be involved in any sort of conflict.
> 
> Remember Bangladesh is a Muslim majority country and many Islamophobes, especially Indians and Europeans accuses Bangladesh of being a radical islamic state who are persecuting minorities. If there are any Bengali-Tribal riot in CHT then it will strengthen the position of Islamophobes. So the CHT conflict should be dealt by the army alone.



They will always accuse Bangladesh of persecuting minorities, whether there is persecution or harmony doesn't matter to them.


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## Tom-tom

DalalErMaNodi said:


> They will always accuse Bangladesh of persecuting minorities, whether there is persecution or harmony doesn't matter to them.



We must not supply them with ammunition though. Maybe one day bangladesh will be like Singapore.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Tom-tom said:


> We must not supply them with ammunition though. Maybe one day bangladesh will be like Singapore.



I cannot tell if you're being sarcastic


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## Aung Zaya

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd suffers from population density in Dhaka, rest of Bangladesh has fairly less people. That can be solved with building new cities with good urban planning, purbachal is going to be the solution



well. except so-called rohingya camps, we dont even know what the overpopulation is. Dhaka has over 45,000 people per km while Yangon which has highest density in Myanmar accommodates 716 people per km. 



Michael Corleone said:


> Without a strong economy you can’t support local economy with local defense industries you muppet



well. only fool will go for long-term war in these days if u dont have intention to annex the land. U will have maximum 1 or 2 days to shoot everything what u have. after that, neighboring giants will intervene and propose to negotiate as they have their strong interests in both countries. I am pretty sure that our local made MLRS , 155mm howitzers and SRBM stockpiles are more than enough to wipe out every important structures and military targets in our border area. 



The Ronin said:


> Use your brain for a moment, will ya? Nothing DGDP issues tender for is that kind of important or have to be secret.


So, i will ask u the same question. will you use ur brain ? one country reveal part of their tenders while other dont anything. which one is more secretive. ?

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## Tom-tom

Aung Zaya said:


> well. except so-called rohingya camps, we dont even know what the overpopulation is. *Dhaka has over 45,000 people per km while *Yangon which has highest density in Myanmar accommodates 716 people per km.
> 
> 
> 
> well. only fool will go for long-term war in these days if u dont have intention to annex the land. U will have maximum 1 or 2 days to shoot everything what u have. after that, neighboring giants will intervene and *propose to negotiate as they have their strong interests in both countries.* I am pretty sure that our local made MLRS , 155mm howitzers and SRBM stockpiles are more than enough to wipe out every important structures and military targets in our border area.
> 
> 
> So, i will ask u the same question. will you use ur brain ? one country reveal part of their tenders while other dont anything. which one is more secretive. ?



I don't think that west has much interest Myanmar now, it's mainly china now.

Dhaka pop density is 23,234 people per square kilometer

The city of *Yangon* covers a surface area of 598.75 km2 (231.18 sq mi). The *population density* comes to approximately 12,308 individuals living per square kilometer in the urban area of *Yangon*.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Tom-tom said:


> I don't think that west has much interest Myanmar now, it's mainly china now.
> 
> Dhaka pop density is 23,234 people per square kilometer
> 
> The city of *Yangon* covers a surface area of 598.75 km2 (231.18 sq mi). The *population density* comes to approximately 12,308 individuals living per square kilometer in the urban area of *Yangon*.



No point quoting real numbers for these guys, they're the kind that don't understand the difference between GDP PPP and Nominal GDP. Once saw a burmese claiming that per capita income in myanmar was higher with "proof". How you ask? Well he was comparing burmese GDP PPP with Bangladeshi GDP nominal. Goes to show how amazing their education system is, and they will develop missiles  while they cant understand simple economic terminology

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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Who told you Arakan army does not fight Bangladesh army. In 2015 the Arakan army had clash with Bangladeshi soldiers and many of their equipment and some horses were taken into custody.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Bangladesh–Arakan_Army_border_clash
> 
> The Arakan army wants to create a separate state like jummaland and this new state of theirs also incude Bandarban and Khagarachari.


Tbh it’s more like the elements of the shantiabahini that signed the peace deal, supported by arakan army. Anywho, if arakan army was a threat to bd, rest assured CHT hill tracts would have never been left to be messed with. That area too, 20plus years of fighting to get it stabilized



Buddhistforlife said:


> North Korea is under sanction and cannot supply weapons-be it conventional or unconventional. So even if Myanmar buys any weapon not necessarily ballistic missiles, then it would be a secret


Nothing is really a secret with US surveillance of the whole globe. If Bangladesh do partner up with US militarily, ie buy weapons and sign those intelligence agreements... then rest assured fishy business will not be a surprise



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I cannot tell if you're being sarcastic


He’s not


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> No point quoting real numbers for these guys, they're the kind that don't understand the difference between GDP PPP and Nominal GDP. Once saw a burmese claiming that per capita income in myanmar was higher with "proof". How you ask? Well he was comparing burmese GDP PPP with Bangladeshi GDP nominal. Goes to show how amazing their education system is, and they will develop missiles  while they cant understand simple economic terminology


Economy wise Bangladesh is way ahead than Myanmar, there is no doubt. But whatever the situation is, Myanmar will always try to maintain a better armed forces than Bangladesh like North Korea


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Economy wise Bangladesh is way ahead than Myanmar, there is no doubt. But whatever the situation is, Myanmar will always try to maintain a better armed forces than Bangladesh like North Korea



Myanmar = North Korea V2 = a toothless North Korea


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## The Ronin

Buddhistforlife said:


> When I am referred to "secrets" I was talking about any possibilities of DPRK-Myanmar co operation in developing Myanmar's ballistic missile capabilities. UN and the west accused Myanmar of buying missiles from North Korea. The point I was trying to make is that *North Korea is under sanction and cannot supply weapons-be it conventional or unconventional. So even if Myanmar buys any weapon not necessarily ballistic missiles, then it would be a secret. *



Dude stop spouting hypothetical nonsense. If Myanmar could build their own Scud or even modify it would've been in the news already, intelligence of neighboring countries would've known and Burmese military would've forgotten to display it publicly at least once. Test launch will require for modified missile and if that happen it will be detected by satellite and radar.

Furthermore building/modifying missile requires technological knowledge, facility and material. Ask any educated member here. If Myanmar could build their own missile they wouldn't have looked for SY-400.



Buddhistforlife said:


> Moreover I do not agree with you when you said that Burmese generals have a habit of spilling out beans. Myanmar has horrible press freedom. In 2014 some journalists reported on a possible chemical weapons factory in Burma after which they were jailed(possibly put to death)



Yeah about that, i see you often cheer our Burmese members in their defense forum here. So you perhaps remember those photos of KS-1 SAM's ToT, Kilo submarine, new FAC design from their military conference including photos of local KS-1 production line, local submarine, new frigate project. inspection of submarine in Russia/China etc.

I don't see @Aung Zaya and other's heads rolling for sharing those photos here. If their own military members leak photos like that, they don't need any press. If anything they kept secret, those would be their Korean LPD procurement, getting Russian sub from India, having bio-chemical weapon and effort to produce nuclear weapon.

Compared to that, did you see any of our production line photo such as FN-16?

https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/burma-army-reveals-ambition-to-own-submarine.html



Aung Zaya said:


> So, i will ask u the same question. will you use ur brain ? one country reveal part of their tenders while other dont anything. which one is more secretive. ?

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd suffers from population density in Dhaka, rest of Bangladesh has fairly less people. That can be solved with building new cities with good urban planning, purbachal is going to be the solution
> 
> we’ll such is the case because Burmese have he knacker for making their problem others problem.
> 
> Without a strong economy you can’t support local economy with local defense industries you muppet
> 
> 
> Bangladesh in logical sense wouldn’t allow these remote areas to be utilized by these people given the beef they endured with shanti bahini in the 80s but they do... not officially ofc but if Bangladeshi govt had zero tolerance towards this then refuge would have been impossible just like the jihadist...
> 
> and the support is American given they’re all kit out with American rifles and whatnot. Ofc the govt. would officially deny this I reckon
> 
> 
> Ariana army is not engaged in war with Bangladeshi govt. their operation is based on the Arabian and rakhine state
> 
> 
> Quite contrary, Burmese officials gladly show off their intentions and procurement through pictures and media... its quite difficult to source reliable information of procurement plans in Bangladesh tbh, defseca gets the flak for mentioning every fighter in the bloc but what we forget to realize is those fighters were all considered and nearly inked until something or the other made the plans fall through... *comparing Burma with NK would be insulting imo *
> As for bd, 40 days countdown, if you don’t hear any procurement news on the fighters then EFT deal fell through (this time I hope defseca doesn’t get flak, as British high commissioner himself expressed Britain’s interest will supplying bd with fighter jets)


"*comparing Burma with NK would be insulting imo"
*
Myanmar is like North Korea without Nuclear weapons. Just because North Korea has nuclear weapons, people have this perception that North Korea is a technologically advanced nation and is more developed than Myanmar, which is false. Even tbh North Korea have much more poor quality of equipments than Myanmar. The best Main battle tank of North Korean ground forces is *Puk Pung Ho, *which is the modified version of T59 tank. North Korea air force's most advanced air craft is *Su-25* fighter bomber.


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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> well. except so-called rohingya camps, we dont even know what the overpopulation is. Dhaka has over 45,000 people per km while Yangon which has highest density in Myanmar accommodates 716 people per km.


Dhaka suffers from poor urban planning and industrialization, most of the poor from other areas come to Dhaka to earn a living... it’s not that all of Dhaka is a mess, some of it is actually really good... comparable to the best cities in the world. However most of Dhaka is poorly planned and overpopulated. However this is changing albeit slowly, tanneries have been moved out of Dhaka so the rivers are getting cleaner, the unplanned buildings near the rivers are all demolished, embankments planned in their place etc. things will improve as the economy grows 


Aung Zaya said:


> well. only fool will go for long-term war in these days if u dont have intention to annex the land. U will have maximum 1 or 2 days to shoot everything what u have. after that, neighboring giants will intervene and propose to negotiate as they have their strong interests in both countries. I am pretty sure that our local made MLRS , 155mm howitzers and SRBM stockpiles are more than enough to wipe out every important structures and military targets in our border area.


Bd will not be the first to wage war, if anything short border conflicts at most, out howitzers and MLRS will make short work of targets in your borders as well... what I see is in case of conflict myanmar trying to take Saint Martin islands and a naval skirmish at seas with air clashes thrown into the mix... not much strategic loss for either side unless myanmar is stupid enough to lunch SRBM to Dhaka, then the war won’t end in any ceasefire as people would want vengeance.



Buddhistforlife said:


> Myanmar is like North Korea without Nuclear weapons. Just because North Korea has nuclear weapons, people have this perception that North Korea is a technologically advanced nation and is more developed than Myanmar, which is false. Even tbh North Korea have much more poor quality of equipments than Myanmar. The best Main battle tank of North Korean ground forces is *Puk Pung Ho, *which is the modified version of T59 tank. North Korea air force's most advanced air craft is *Su-25* fighter bomber.


North Korea doesn’t need to be advanced. It’s mastery in rocket technology enough to hit Japan and South Korea precisely and ownership of nuclear weapons are enough to keep it alive. Myanmar comparatively is nothing more than a wannabe Iraq or Libya and those countries got pummeled by the Americans. If developing nuclear bombs is as easy as you imply, even Maldives would have them... rocketry and nuclear weapons are very complex mechanisms and mastery in them is enough to classify someone as being advanced. They placed their bet right, put the money in research of nukes and rockets instead of tanks and fighters. Burma isn’t even close to that. 
Burma isn’t even good in basic consumer electronics manufacturing, light industries.... just making some trainers and possibly light fighters isn’t sustainable if they don’t give any return on the investment

Anyways, keep on topic. My mistake, I realize this is the airforce thread. I’m sorry for rambling on

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## Buddhistforlife

The Ronin said:


> Dude stop spouting hypothetical nonsense. If Myanmar could build their own Scud or even modify it would've been in the news already, intelligence of neighboring countries would've known and Burmese military would've forgotten to display it publicly at least once. Test launch will require for modified missile and if that happen it will be detected by satellite and radar.
> 
> Furthermore building/modifying missile requires technological knowledge, facility and material. Ask any educated member here. If Myanmar could build their own missile they wouldn't have looked for SY-400.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah about that, i see you often cheer our Burmese members in their defense forum here. So you perhaps remember those photos of KS-1 SAM's ToT, Kilo submarine, new FAC design from their military conference including photos of local KS-1 production line, local submarine, new frigate project. inspection of submarine in Russia/China etc.
> 
> I don't see @Aung Zaya and other's heads rolling for sharing those photos here. If their own military members leak photos like that, they don't need any press. If anything they kept secret, those would be their Korean LPD procurement, getting Russian sub from India, having bio-chemical weapon and effort to produce nuclear weapon.
> 
> Compared to that, did you see any of our production line photo such as FN-16?
> 
> https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/burma-army-reveals-ambition-to-own-submarine.html


*"Yeah about that, i see you often cheer our Burmese members in their defense forum here"*

I won't lie but I yes I do sometimes cheer them up. That's because of religious affiliation. But it's not to the extent of betrayal or treachery. Hindus can support India, Muslims can support Pakistan, Buddhists can support Myanmar, China etc. But not at the expense of one's own nation.


*"If Myanmar could build their own Scud or even modify it would've been in the news already, intelligence of neighboring countries would've known and Burmese military would've forgotten to display it publicly at least once"*







Claims of USA


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## DalalErMaNodi

Speaking from personal experience, the only two things burma makes that people on the other side of the border want is barmish asar and barmish chendel. All theyre good for is dry fruit pickle and sandals thats all, don't believe me? goto cox bazar at 7 pm near the beach and take a good hard look at the burmese nationals begging and selling that stuff.



Michael Corleone said:


> North Korea doesn’t need to be advanced. It’s mastery in rocket technology enough to hit Japan and South Korea precisely and ownership of nuclear weapons are enough to keep it alive. Myanmar comparatively is nothing more than a wannabe Iraq or Libya and those countries got pummeled by the Americans. If developing nuclear bombs is as easy as you imply, even Maldives would have them... rocketry and nuclear weapons are very complex mechanisms and mastery in them is enough to classify someone as being advanced. They placed their bet right, put the money in research of nukes and rockets instead of tanks and fighters. Burma isn’t even close to that.
> Burma isn’t even good in basic consumer electronics manufacturing, light industries.... just making some trainers and possibly light fighters isn’t sustainable if they don’t give any return on the investment
> 
> Anyways, keep on topic. My mistake, I realize this is the airforce thread. I’m sorry for rambling on



Hahaha what the **** are you talking about, Myanmar ain't squat compared to Libya and Iraq in their prime. If anything comparing them to north korea, iraq or libya is high praise...... give it 10 years max and myanmar wont even exist as a whole

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuwaitha_Nuclear_Research_Center

Meanwhile myanmar needs foreigners to fly their helicopters because they lack trained commercial pilots


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Speaking from personal experience, the only two things burma makes that people on the other side of the border want is barmish asar and barmish chendel. All theyre good for is dry fruit pickle and sandals thats all, don't believe me? goto cox bazar at 7 pm near the beach and take a good hard look at the burmese nationals begging and selling that stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha what the **** are you talking about, Myanmar ain't squat compared to Libya and Iraq in their prime.


*"Burmese nationals begging and selling that stuff"*

They are not Burmese nationals but tribal Rakhines and Marmas living in Cox's Bazaar. They get all these achar and sandals from the other side of the border. Even in Saint Martin you will find Burmese products sold by Bengali/Marma/Rakhine


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> *"Burmese nationals begging and selling that stuff"*
> 
> They are not Burmese nationals but tribal Rakhines and Marmas living in Cox's Bazaar. They get all these achar and sandals from the other side of the border. Even in Saint Martin you will find Burmese products sold by Bengali/Marma/Rakhine



Dude, these people themselves told me they're burmese

Point is you'll never see BDs going to myanmar for work, Myanmar only exist because China wills as much

Anyway wrong thread to discuss this.


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Speaking from personal experience, the only two things burma makes that people on the other side of the border want is barmish asar and barmish chendel. All theyre good for is dry fruit pickle and sandals thats all, don't believe me? goto cox bazar at 7 pm near the beach and take a good hard look at the burmese nationals begging and selling that stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha what the **** are you talking about, Myanmar ain't squat compared to Libya and Iraq in their prime. If anything comparing them to north korea, iraq or libya is high praise...... give it 10 years max and myanmar wont even exist as a whole
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuwaitha_Nuclear_Research_Center
> 
> Meanwhile myanmar needs foreigners to fly their helicopters because they lack trained commercial pilots


I ofc didn’t mean in their prime but Burma hardly can be compared to those countries in their lows... they had oil money, Burma has no money


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> I ofc didn’t mean in their prime but Burma hardly can be compared to those countries in their lows... they had oil money, Burma has no money



Burmese armed forces are very poorly trained, casualties are high in the internal conflict. Nobody conducts large scale training exercises with their troops except China maybe. Myanmar pumps whatever money it has into its military and still they're only just ahead of us on a few scales, just goes to show how little money they have to begin with.

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## Avicenna

Where is the second batch of K-8W?

Why havn't they been delivered yet?


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Dude, these people themselves told me they're burmese
> 
> Point is you'll never see BDs going to myanmar for work, Myanmar only exist because China wills as much
> 
> Anyway wrong thread to discuss this.


I have never heard such thing. In Cox's bazaar there is this Burmese market where you will find tribals selling these things. They can fluently speak Bengali. I don't know which market you visited in Cox's bazaar



Avicenna said:


> Where is the second batch of K-8W?
> 
> Why havn't they been delivered yet?


As per news they are ready but didn't say anything about their delivery


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> I have never heard such thing. In Cox's bazaar there is this Burmese market where you will find tribals selling these things. They can fluently speak Bengali. I don't know which market you visited in Cox's bazaar
> 
> 
> As per news they are ready but didn't say anything about their delivery





Buddhistforlife said:


> I have never heard such thing. In Cox's bazaar there is this Burmese market where you will find tribals selling these things. They can fluently speak Bengali. I don't know which market you visited in Cox's bazaar
> 
> 
> As per news they are ready but didn't say anything about their delivery



They can speak Bangla, because now they live here to conduct because while their family members on the other side give them the merchandise to sell

They're literally all over the place, hell on a good day you hear them selling achar in khulsi residential area (rare but it does happen)


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> They can speak Bangla, because now they live here to conduct because while their family members on the other side give them the merchandise to sell


Well tbh there are Rakhines in both Bangladesh and Myanmar. I don't know much about the Rakhine community. If I accept your opinion, then it can be that Burmese Rakhines sometimes come to Cox's bazaar for trade.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> They can speak Bangla, because now they live here to conduct because while their family members on the other side give them the merchandise to sell
> 
> They're literally all over the place, hell on a good day you hear them selling achar in khulsi residential area (rare but it does happen)


Its like Pashtuns. Pashtuns can be found in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Similarly Rakhines can be found in both Bangladesh and Myanmar


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Well tbh there are Rakhines in both Bangladesh and Myanmar. I don't know much about the Rakhine community. If I accept your opinion, then it can be that Burmese Rakhines sometimes come to Cox's bazaar for trade.



I have no idea about their ethnicity but they're Burmese and not the rohingya type Burmese

Are you from indigenous tribe or you're bangali Buddhist ?


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> I have no idea about their ethnicity but they're Burmese and not the rohingya type Burmese
> 
> Are you from indigenous tribe or you're bangali Buddhist ?


No I am from the Barua community. However we are not exactly bengali. We came to Bangladesh from Magadha during the time of Emperor Ashoka. 

Baruas are Indo aryans but some of us have Burmese or Mongol genetics. This is because baruas historically used to serve the Kingdom of Arakan who were also Buddhists. Baruas and others are called *Mog *people and we Baruas are influenced by Arakanese culture and language for example we call *temples as Kyang *which is Burmese term for Buddhist temples. There are baruas in Myanmar too. They are called Marmagri and have recognition in Myanmar.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I have no idea about their ethnicity but they're Burmese and not the rohingya type Burmese
> 
> Are you from indigenous tribe or you're bangali Buddhist ?


Cox's bazaar and parts of Chittagong was under Arakanese rule. You will find many Burmese style Buddhist temples in Chittagong. There is one which is more than 500 years old


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> No I am from the Barua community. However we are not exactly bengali. We came to Bangladesh from Magadha during the time of Emperor Ashoka.
> 
> Baruas are Indo aryans but some of us have Burmese or Mongol genetics. This is because baruas historically used to serve the Kingdom of Arakan who were also Buddhists. Baruas and others are called *Mog *people and we Baruas are influenced by Arakanese culture and language for example we call *temples as Kyang *which is Burmese term for Buddhist temples. There are baruas in Myanmar too. They are called Marmagri and have recognition in Myanmar.
> 
> 
> Cox's bazaar and parts of Chittagong was under Arakanese rule. You will find many Burmese style Buddhist temples in Chittagong. There is one which is more than 500 years old



Yes I know about baruas, you can find many members of your community in Chittagong city too or am I mistaken because the people I'm thinking of have barua as a surname ?


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Yes I know about baruas, you can find many members of your community in Chittagong city too or am I mistaken because the people I'm thinking of have barua as a surname ?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barua_(Bangladesh)

You can see our wiki page

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Where is the second batch of K-8W?
> 
> Why havn't they been delivered yet?


Corona probably

Guys, I think this discussion should move to chill thread

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## Tom-tom

DalalErMaNodi said:


> No point quoting real numbers for these guys, they're the kind that don't understand the difference between GDP PPP and Nominal GDP. Once saw a burmese claiming that per capita income in myanmar was higher with "proof". How you ask? Well he was comparing burmese GDP PPP with Bangladeshi GDP nominal. Goes to show how amazing their education system is, and they will develop missiles  while they cant understand simple economic terminology




The days with out Google, dim lows like them would have won the argument. 
Those were the days, when someone argued the most persuasively won the argument and other people believed their rubbish. Even when their facts were wrong just had to believable.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barua_(Bangladesh)
> 
> You can see our wiki page



Wait Partha barua is the 'barua' that you're from or is that something else ? You know Partha barua famous Chittagonian singer


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Wait Partha barua is the 'barua' that you're from or is that something else ? You Partha barua famous Chittagonian singer


Yes. Partho is from Chittagong


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Yes. Partho is from Chittagong



Well then I'm very familiar with your community, I was just confused initially because I didn't think they were a special indigenous group, infact I never even thought to much into it, looked like normal Bangladeshis to me

Good to see Bangladeshi posters on here are diverse from all corners of the country


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Well then I'm very familiar with your community, I was just confused initially because I didn't think they were a special indigenous group, infact I never even thought to much into it, looked like normal Bangladeshis to me


Many baruas have mongoloid features due to admixture. Partho baruas face is also mongoloid if you see his face deeply.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Many baruas have mongoloid features due to admixture. Partho baruas face is also mongoloid if you see his face deeply.



Yes, indeed but that isn't out of the normal in Chittagong. You'll find many ethnic Bangalees with slightly Mongoloid features too.

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## Buddhistforlife

@Michael Corleone said that how can Burma make ballistic missiles when they even cannot make ACs and TVs and tbh this is simply out of logic. If you chose to destroy every sector of your country and focus primarily on defence, then you can easily have highly skilled defence technicians while having low skilled doctors and engineers on the other hand.



Michael Corleone said:


> Dhaka suffers from poor urban planning and industrialization, most of the poor from other areas come to Dhaka to earn a living... it’s not that all of Dhaka is a mess, some of it is actually really good... comparable to the best cities in the world. However most of Dhaka is poorly planned and overpopulated. However this is changing albeit slowly, tanneries have been moved out of Dhaka so the rivers are getting cleaner, the unplanned buildings near the rivers are all demolished, embankments planned in their place etc. things will improve as the economy grows
> 
> Bd will not be the first to wage war, if anything short border conflicts at most, out howitzers and MLRS will make short work of targets in your borders as well... what I see is in case of conflict myanmar trying to take Saint Martin islands and a naval skirmish at seas with air clashes thrown into the mix... not much strategic loss for either side unless myanmar is stupid enough to lunch SRBM to Dhaka, then the war won’t end in any ceasefire as people would want vengeance.
> 
> 
> North Korea doesn’t need to be advanced. It’s mastery in rocket technology enough to hit Japan and South Korea precisely and ownership of nuclear weapons are enough to keep it alive. Myanmar comparatively is nothing more than a wannabe Iraq or Libya and those countries got pummeled by the Americans. If developing nuclear bombs is as easy as you imply, even Maldives would have them... rocketry and nuclear weapons are very complex mechanisms and mastery in them is enough to classify someone as being advanced. They placed their bet right, put the money in research of nukes and rockets instead of tanks and fighters. Burma isn’t even close to that.
> Burma isn’t even good in basic consumer electronics manufacturing, light industries.... just making some trainers and possibly light fighters isn’t sustainable if they don’t give any return on the investment
> 
> Anyways, keep on topic. My mistake, I realize this is the airforce thread. I’m sorry for rambling on


North Korea also isn't good at making basic things and they don't have well educated doctors and engineers and half of their population are living in poverty. So?

Like I said North Korea has highly skilled and highly expert people in the defence sector only. You analyze the medical sector and other sectors of North korea and you will find rarely find highly skilled people in those sectors.

The problem is just because North Korea has experts and highly trained personnel in the army who can make Nukes easily, you are believing that they have such experts in every field? that's not the case.

@Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin

If the Bangladesh government today says that doctors engineers, professors, architects etc can go to hell and spends much of Bangladesh's GDP on defence research and promoting defence expertise then Bangladesh can also become militarily powerful with Nuclear weapons and Ballistic missiles. North Korea and Burma's condition is like this.

However Bangladesh does not need such madness. We need a good education system, medical system etc


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> @Michael Corleone said that how can Burma make ballistic missiles when they even cannot make ACs and TVs and tbh this is simply out of logic. If you chose to destroy every sector of your country and focus primarily on defence, then you can easily have highly skilled defence technicians while having low skilled doctors and engineers on the other hand


What’s out of logic is having low skilled engineering capabilities for high tech sectors like rocket industry, the simple guidance system are extremely difficult to make, without good knowledge in silicon processing, I don’t honk you can jump up to a industry such as ballistic missiles



Buddhistforlife said:


> North Korea also isn't good at making basic things and they don't have well educated doctors and engineers and half of their population are living in poverty. So?
> 
> Like I said North Korea has highly skilled and highly expert people in the defence sector only. You analyze the medical sector and other sectors of North korea and you will find rarely find highly skilled people in those sectors.
> 
> The problem is just because North Korea has experts and highly trained personnel in the army who can make Nukes easily, you are believing that they have such experts in every field? that's not the case.
> 
> @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin
> 
> If the Bangladesh government today says that doctors engineers, professors, architects etc can go to hell and spends much of Bangladesh's GDP on defence research and promoting defence expertise then Bangladesh can also become militarily powerful with Nuclear weapons and Ballistic missiles. North Korea and Burma's condition is like this.
> 
> However Bangladesh does not need such madness. We need a good education system, medical system etc


Maybe not accessible to the civilians... maybe they lack health care system (Yangon lacks primary health care system) maybe the number of skilled doctors and engineers are less but to say they have mone is kind of understatement


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## Buddhistforlife

Burmese and North Korean officials met and had military co operation. These are some photos I found from articles I have read in the past. Now please tell me that I was lying about missile co operation between DPRK and Burma

@Michael Corleone @Ronin @DalalErMaNodi


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 634899
> 
> 
> View attachment 634900
> 
> 
> Burmese and North Korean officials met and had military co operation. These are some photos I found from articles I have read in the past. Now please tell me that I was lying about missile co operation between DPRK and Burma
> 
> @Michael Corleone @Ronin @DalalErMaNodi


Can you please move his discussion to chill Bangladesh thread? Thank you

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Can you please move his discussion to chill Bangladesh thread? Thank you


Anyways let's talk about the Karakoram training aircraft BD is getting. I'm getting tired of sticking too Burma/North Korea topic.


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## The Ronin

Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia and now Malaysia. Perhaps it's better for BAF to stay away from major USA weapon if it can't be utilized against potential adversary.

In an interview with Qatari news outlet _Al Jazeera_, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad provided insight into his country’s experience operating American manufactured F-18 Hornet fighter jets and the considerable limitations imposed on operations by Washington. The Royal Malaysian Air Force currently operates three classes of fighter, including the high end heavyweight Russian Su-30MKM as its most modern platform and small numbers of older medium weight F-18 and MiG-29 platforms. Mahathir noted regarding the terms imposed by the U.S. on clients for its fighter aircraft that the source codes for the jets were not provided, meaning: “we cannot program the plane for any attacks against other countries without getting the programming done by Americans. So although the planes are very good, in terms of performance very powerful engines, but we cannot program the plane by ourselves. You have to refer to the United States for putting the program for any raid on foreign countries for example. So our planes were costly. We have them. We can fly them at airshows. But we cannot use them to fight any other country because we don’t get the source code.” 

Mahathir further elaborated: “The way they treated Malaysia as a buyer of the F-18, we find that the planes are only good for airshows. But we cannot program it for, say, attacks against other countries or for any other use. That is the experience of Malaysia. But I suspect that other countries also did not get the source codes… the planes are not really a weapon that you can control. The control is with the Americans.” He noted that European states may be provided with source codes, but indicated that few non-Western states would, and that even munitions for the F-18s could not be purchased to update the aircraft without approval from the U.S. government. The interviewer thus concluded that clients for F-16 of F-18 fighters “can only use them against targets designated by the United States, not targets that they themselves would like to hit.”

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...s-can-t-fight-without-washington-s-permission

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## Buddhistforlife

The Ronin said:


> Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia and now Malaysia. Perhaps it's better for BAF to stay away from major USA weapon if it can't be utilized against potential adversary.
> 
> In an interview with Qatari news outlet _Al Jazeera_, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad provided insight into his country’s experience operating American manufactured F-18 Hornet fighter jets and the considerable limitations imposed on operations by Washington. The Royal Malaysian Air Force currently operates three classes of fighter, including the high end heavyweight Russian Su-30MKM as its most modern platform and small numbers of older medium weight F-18 and MiG-29 platforms. Mahathir noted regarding the terms imposed by the U.S. on clients for its fighter aircraft that the source codes for the jets were not provided, meaning: “we cannot program the plane for any attacks against other countries without getting the programming done by Americans. So although the planes are very good, in terms of performance very powerful engines, but we cannot program the plane by ourselves. You have to refer to the United States for putting the program for any raid on foreign countries for example. So our planes were costly. We have them. We can fly them at airshows. But we cannot use them to fight any other country because we don’t get the source code.”
> 
> Mahathir further elaborated: “The way they treated Malaysia as a buyer of the F-18, we find that the planes are only good for airshows. But we cannot program it for, say, attacks against other countries or for any other use. That is the experience of Malaysia. But I suspect that other countries also did not get the source codes… the planes are not really a weapon that you can control. The control is with the Americans.” He noted that European states may be provided with source codes, but indicated that few non-Western states would, and that even munitions for the F-18s could not be purchased to update the aircraft without approval from the U.S. government. The interviewer thus concluded that clients for F-16 of F-18 fighters “can only use them against targets designated by the United States, not targets that they themselves would like to hit.”
> 
> https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...s-can-t-fight-without-washington-s-permission


I think BAF should not go with Russian jets because although Russian jets are cheaper than Western jets, the spare parts and maintenance are expensive. This is how Russians does business. 

Some members mentioned Chengdu J10c. Well Chengdu J10c is an interceptor and not a pure mrca. 

F-18 is a good choice, price is also cheaper than EFT but if Bangladesh buys American product then it should be careful not to become politically involved with USA. 

But I think SAAB Gripen is also a good choice for BAF or F-16 block 70/72

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia and now Malaysia. Perhaps it's better for BAF to stay away from major USA weapon if it can't be utilized against potential adversary.
> 
> In an interview with Qatari news outlet _Al Jazeera_, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad provided insight into his country’s experience operating American manufactured F-18 Hornet fighter jets and the considerable limitations imposed on operations by Washington. The Royal Malaysian Air Force currently operates three classes of fighter, including the high end heavyweight Russian Su-30MKM as its most modern platform and small numbers of older medium weight F-18 and MiG-29 platforms. Mahathir noted regarding the terms imposed by the U.S. on clients for its fighter aircraft that the source codes for the jets were not provided, meaning: “we cannot program the plane for any attacks against other countries without getting the programming done by Americans. So although the planes are very good, in terms of performance very powerful engines, but we cannot program the plane by ourselves. You have to refer to the United States for putting the program for any raid on foreign countries for example. So our planes were costly. We have them. We can fly them at airshows. But we cannot use them to fight any other country because we don’t get the source code.”
> 
> Mahathir further elaborated: “The way they treated Malaysia as a buyer of the F-18, we find that the planes are only good for airshows. But we cannot program it for, say, attacks against other countries or for any other use. That is the experience of Malaysia. But I suspect that other countries also did not get the source codes… the planes are not really a weapon that you can control. The control is with the Americans.” He noted that European states may be provided with source codes, but indicated that few non-Western states would, and that even munitions for the F-18s could not be purchased to update the aircraft without approval from the U.S. government. The interviewer thus concluded that clients for F-16 of F-18 fighters “can only use them against targets designated by the United States, not targets that they themselves would like to hit.”
> 
> https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...s-can-t-fight-without-washington-s-permission


Best to stick with European options. Europeans will just embargo us if we are showing aggression. The US will give us its emotional baggage

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## Indos

The Ronin said:


> Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia and now Malaysia. Perhaps it's better for BAF to stay away from major USA weapon if it can't be utilized against potential adversary.
> 
> In an interview with Qatari news outlet _Al Jazeera_, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad provided insight into his country’s experience operating American manufactured F-18 Hornet fighter jets and the considerable limitations imposed on operations by Washington. The Royal Malaysian Air Force currently operates three classes of fighter, including the high end heavyweight Russian Su-30MKM as its most modern platform and small numbers of older medium weight F-18 and MiG-29 platforms. Mahathir noted regarding the terms imposed by the U.S. on clients for its fighter aircraft that the source codes for the jets were not provided, meaning: “we cannot program the plane for any attacks against other countries without getting the programming done by Americans. So although the planes are very good, in terms of performance very powerful engines, but we cannot program the plane by ourselves. You have to refer to the United States for putting the program for any raid on foreign countries for example. So our planes were costly. We have them. We can fly them at airshows. But we cannot use them to fight any other country because we don’t get the source code.”
> 
> Mahathir further elaborated: “The way they treated Malaysia as a buyer of the F-18, we find that the planes are only good for airshows. But we cannot program it for, say, attacks against other countries or for any other use. That is the experience of Malaysia. But I suspect that other countries also did not get the source codes… the planes are not really a weapon that you can control. The control is with the Americans.” He noted that European states may be provided with source codes, but indicated that few non-Western states would, and that even munitions for the F-18s could not be purchased to update the aircraft without approval from the U.S. government. The interviewer thus concluded that clients for F-16 of F-18 fighters “can only use them against targets designated by the United States, not targets that they themselves would like to hit.”
> 
> https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...s-can-t-fight-without-washington-s-permission



This is why I advocate you guys to wait for KFX program before major acquisition that you are going to make.


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## Tagaung

Buddhistforlife said:


> how can Burma make ballistic missiles when they even cannot make ACs and TVs



we did produce medium range SAM (KS-1) missile, we get TOT since 2016. 
ballistic missile isn't far fetch from this.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Indos said:


> This is why I advocate you guys to wait for KFX program before major acquisition that you are going to make.


Is it too late for Bangladesh to join and become a part of the program? I assume they would play a relatively small part in the process, but it would pay dividends in the development of Bangladesh's Own indigenous capabilities


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## Buddhistforlife

Tagaung said:


> we did produce medium range SAM (KS-1) missile, we get TOT since 2016.
> ballistic missile isn't far fetch from this.
> 
> 
> View attachment 634998
> 
> View attachment 634999
> 
> View attachment 635000


Bro please read my post from top to bottom. You have clearly misunderstood what I was trying to tell


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## Tagaung

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bro please read my post from top to bottom. You have clearly misunderstood what I was trying to tell



i know you didnt said it, some bd member said it. i was giving your statement more credibility by providing you some proofs. sorry, if this make you misunderstand.

@Buddhistforlife btw bro, did you know we are producing flight avionics, reverse engineering PT-6 aircraft and Israeli Elbit Skylark 2 tactical uav. here is some proof photos that *I* took on MAF day.


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## Michael Corleone

38 days, looks like MRCA deal will not be signed until next fiscal year

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> 38 days, looks like MRCA deal will not be signed until next fiscal year



How can you be sure ? 38 days is still alot of time, hell maybe they're just holding off the announcement or something.


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## Buddhistforlife

Tagaung said:


> i know you didnt said it, some bd idiot said it. i was giving your statement more credibility by providing you some proofs. sorry, if this make you misunderstand.
> 
> @Buddhistforlife btw bro, did you know we are producing flight avionics, reverse engineering PT-6 aircraft and Israeli Elbit Skylark 2 tactical uav. here is some proof photos that *I* took on MAF day.
> 
> View attachment 635006
> View attachment 635007
> View attachment 635008
> View attachment 635009


Cool

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## Rahil Ahmed

Didn't the President already confirm the purchase of 16 MRCA? As @DalalErMaNodi mentioned we still have time.



Tagaung said:


> i know you didnt said it, some bd idiot said it. i was giving your statement more credibility by providing you some proofs. sorry, if this make you misunderstand.
> 
> @Buddhistforlife btw bro, did you know we are producing flight avionics, reverse engineering PT-6 aircraft and Israeli Elbit Skylark 2 tactical uav. here is some proof photos that *I* took on MAF day.
> 
> View attachment 635006
> View attachment 635007
> View attachment 635008
> View attachment 635009


Bangladesh too is working on developing and Indigenous jet prototype by 2021, one that will be more useful than a PT6 in battle


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## Tagaung

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Bangladesh too is working on developing and Indigenous jet prototype by 2021, one that will be more useful than a PT6 in battle



try to walk, before you run.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Tagaung said:


> try to walk, before you run.



Good advice, try adhering to it yourself.


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## Incog_nito

BAF now seems to be more open to spend and expand.

I think BAF should consider some EU and US fighters too like:


used Mirage-2000s
new Saad Grippen E/F
used F-16s
new F-16s
A-400 Ms to complement C-130J-30s

This is besides 48 J-10Cs which are ordered recently.

And is BAF also looking to expand its MiG-29 fleet? Like getting some old ones from other operators?


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## Tagaung

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Good advice, try adhering to it yourself.


that is why we started working on PT-6. 

I dont want to sidetracked the BAF discussion any more. 

So please
*DONT BASH US IN YOUR FORUMS . *

if you do, we will be responding and sidetracking your BAF discussion. we dont want to do that.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Incog_nito said:


> BAF now seems to be more open to spend and expand.
> 
> I think BAF should consider some EU and US fighters too like:
> 
> 
> used Mirage-2000s
> new Saad Grippen E/F
> used F-16s
> new F-16s
> A-400 Ms to complement C-130J-30s
> 
> This is besides 48 J-10Cs which are ordered recently.
> 
> And is BAF also looking to expand its MiG-29 fleet? Like getting some old ones from other operators?


I think it's best we start to wean off Russian aircraft. More often than not they are just Hangar queens that will require Constant maintenance. They are also not a politically viable option because it is not for sure if Russia would support us in conflict against either Myanmar or India.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Tagaung said:


> that is why we started working on PT-6.
> 
> I dont want to sidetracked the BAF discussion any more.



Good keep it up and keep the forum civil, it's a great platform for us all.

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## Rahil Ahmed

I've heard Lalmonirhat will be important in the Use of Drones in Bangladesh, according to an article I've found: "The university has already signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with SwissDrones for assembling unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) and the establishment of a research facility on campus. The university is also going to sign an MoU with Airbus for establishing technical research laboratories and an international standard flight training academy." Any other news on a significant development in BD's aerospace industry?

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> How can you be sure ? 38 days is still alot of time, hell maybe they're just holding off the announcement or something.


Don’t want to ring bells 



Rahil Ahmed said:


> I've heard Lalmonirhat will be important in the Use of Drones in Bangladesh, according to an article I've found: "The university has already signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with SwissDrones for assembling unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) and the establishment of a research facility on campus. The university is also going to sign an MoU with Airbus for establishing technical research laboratories and an international standard flight training academy." Any other news on a significant development in BD's aerospace industry?


Lalmonirhat will fly a manned aircraft in 3 years time... Also MOU with chengdu for research on battery powered aircraft


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Don’t want to ring bells
> 
> 
> Lalmonirhat will fly a manned aircraft in 3 years time... Also MOU with chengdu for research on battery powered aircraft



https://www.defseca.com/opinions-editorials/china-offers-her-renewed-friendship-to-bangladesh/

Wonder if this means J-10C is more likely at some point.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Don’t want to ring bells
> 
> 
> Lalmonirhat will fly a manned aircraft in 3 years time... Also MOU with chengdu for research on battery powered aircraft



I don't think we will be able to do it within the 2024 atleast


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> https://www.defseca.com/opinions-editorials/china-offers-her-renewed-friendship-to-bangladesh/
> 
> Wonder if this means J-10C is more likely at some point.


I’ll be super pissed if they go ahead with j10 now, what’s the use of drama



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I don't think we will be able to do it within the 2024 atleast


Only 2 squadrons and MRCA definitely not before 2024


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> I’ll be super pissed if they go ahead with j10 now, what’s the use of drama
> 
> 
> Only 2 squadrons and MRCA definitely not before 2024



Seems there is a tug of war of sorts between China and the US.

Also things like this give me pause.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...s-can-t-fight-without-washington-s-permission


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Only 2 squadrons and MRCA definitely not before 2024



No, you misunderstood me. I was referring to BAC being able to manufacture a prototype aircraft by 2021, which is the deadline if you can call it that set by the Prime Minister. Although I choose to remain skeptical as to whether they can meet this demand by even 2025, I genuinely hope they will surprise us all. 

"She hoped that the centre would make prototype of light aircrafts by 2021. “I also hope that you would one day make aircraft, helicopters and radars in the country."

https://www.thedailystar.net/news-detail-212914
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangabandhu_Aeronautical_Centre


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## Michael Corleone

@Avicenna next batch of 7 k8 coming soon



Avicenna said:


> Seems there is a tug of war of sorts between China and the US.
> 
> Also things like this give me pause.
> 
> https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...s-can-t-fight-without-washington-s-permission
> 
> Also are you a mod at defseca forum?


Yeah Americans want to win maritime strike order...
but I think highly unlikely

as for being a mod, yes I’m.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> No, you misunderstood me. I was referring to BAC being able to manufacture a prototype aircraft by 2021, which is the deadline if you can call it that set by the Prime Minister. Although I choose to remain skeptical as to whether they can meet this demand by even 2025, I genuinely hope they will surprise us all.
> 
> "She hoped that the centre would make prototype of light aircrafts by 2021. “I also hope that you would one day make aircraft, helicopters and radars in the country."
> 
> https://www.thedailystar.net/news-detail-212914
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangabandhu_Aeronautical_Centre


The plan was to build a jet fighter then backtracked to jet trainer... (k8 probably) but also heard it was to be a primary trainer. Not sure which of the following. However BAC and uni at lalmonirhat are supposed to be run by same people and last they came on the news, they expected a jet aircraft prototype to fly by 2021... given the love for running good propaganda, I guess it could be possible
Collaboration with irkut exist to manufacture/ maintain avionics

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## DalalErMaNodi

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-air-force-secures-funds-for-mega-purchase/

I really want to find out of this article has any substance to itself, PayPal blocked my account last year and I have been hesitant to make a new one. 

I know SAK has cited every jet in the world as a possible contender for the MRCA program but I'm curious as to whether you guys think he is credible? The way I see it him citing every jet in the book could be nothing more than BAF's fickle mindedness rather than him making stuff up, But I could be wrong.


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> @Avicenna next batch of 7 k8 coming soon
> 
> 
> Yeah Americans want to win maritime strike order...
> but I think highly unlikely
> 
> as for being a mod, yes I’m.
> 
> 
> The plan was to build a jet fighter then backtracked to jet trainer... (k8 probably) but also heard it was to be a primary trainer. Not sure which of the following. However BAC and uni at lalmonirhat are supposed to be run by same people and last they came on the news, they expected a jet aircraft prototype to fly by 2021... given the love for running good propaganda, I guess it could be possible
> Collaboration with irkut exist to manufacture/ maintain avionics



Glad to hear about the K-8.

Need to keep flying.

Also, I used to think Bangladesh was in a politically sleepy place, but I have to say, there seems to be alot of behind the scenes activity in factoring what to procure.

The bottom line is that Bangladesh CANT trust either the US or China.

And it may have to ultimately choose who is the bigger threat, India or Myanmar.

It would be ideal for BD to source fighters from both the West and China.

The main problem IMO is access to a BVR missile.

The US would have to sign off as alot of components probably need export approval even from a European source.

Not sure though about that one in regards to Meteor.

Also, it was very odd to me that Florence Pearly stopped by Dhaka recently.

The French smell money about to be spent.

Probably the greatest confirmation that BAF is seriously planning SOMETHING.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-air-force-secures-funds-for-mega-purchase/
> 
> I really want to find out of this article has any substance to itself, PayPal blocked my account last year and I have been hesitant to make a new one.
> 
> I know SAK has cited every jet in the world as a possible contender for the MRCA program but I'm curious as to whether you guys think he is credible? The way I see it him citing every jet in the book could be nothing more than BAF's fickle mindedness rather than him making stuff up, But I could be wrong.


Exactly. He has been reliable about other stuff, it’s BAF’s limbo that effects defseca reputation



Avicenna said:


> Glad to hear about the K-8.
> 
> Need to keep flying.
> 
> Also, I used to think Bangladesh was in a politically sleepy place, but I have to say, there seems to be alot of behind the scenes activity in factoring what to procure.
> 
> The bottom line is that Bangladesh CANT trust either the US or China.
> 
> And it may have to ultimately choose who is the bigger threat, India or Myanmar.
> 
> It would be ideal for BD to source fighters from both the West and China.
> 
> The main problem IMO is access to a BVR missile.
> 
> The US would have to sign off as alot of components probably need export approval even from a European source.
> 
> Not sure though about that one in regards to Meteor.
> 
> Also, it was very odd to me that Florence Pearly stopped by Dhaka recently.
> 
> The French smell money about to be spent.
> 
> Probably the greatest confirmation that BAF is seriously planning SOMETHING.
> 
> Also, about the other forum, my suggestion to to increase the font size and make the format similar to here.
> 
> It would probably increase member participation if that were to happen.


I’ll forward the information

meteor bypasses American involvement, however it will need a European platform, american platforms can work with meteor but US won’t allow it for third party states. 
And yes, the French are greedy bustards of Europe to put it mildly, if they’re interested, it does mean something... 
btw no second hand EFT coming that’s for sure

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## Rahil Ahmed

Safe to assume that the lack of information of the supposed "Jet Trainer" means that it probably was a pipe dream from the start. However that doesn't mean that something of this sort isn't something of a possibility in the future. BD should try its best to collaborate with those such as turkey and South Korea and see how they first began building their own jests. Everything will eventually come slowly, Barring any unforeseen circumstances BD should be able to have a reliable defence industry by 2050, coupled with a strong economy


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## DalalErMaNodi

How did he get access to a SU-30? I read somewhere he's related to SHW, is this true?

I hope there isn't any nepotism at play here.


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Safe to assume that the lack of information of the supposed "Jet Trainer" means that it probably was a pipe dream from the start. However that doesn't mean that something of this sort isn't something of a possibility in the future. BD should try its best to collaborate with those such as turkey and South Korea and see how they first began building their own jests. Everything will eventually come slowly, Barring any unforeseen circumstances BD should be able to have a reliable defence industry by 2050, coupled with a strong economy



Start grassroots with a simple prop trainer first.

Bangladeshis have alot of talent.

It just needs to be harnessed and developed.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> Start grassroots with a simple prop trainer first.
> 
> Bangladeshis have alot of talent.
> 
> It just needs to be harnessed and developed.


Regardless of talent Bangladesh just does not currently have the infrastructure to produce propeller planes, how are they supposed to build jets by next year


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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Regardless of talent Bangladesh just does not currently have the infrastructure to produce propeller planes, how are they supposed to build jets by next year



They're planning to manufacture a prototype basic trainer (propeller) aircraft.

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635037
> 
> 
> How did he get access to a SU-30? I read somewhere he's related to SHW, is this true?
> 
> I hope their isn't any nepotism at play here.








Just kidding!

Couldn't resist.


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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> They're planning to manufacture a prototype basic trainer (propeller) aircraft.


Will it completely be indigenous? I'm assuming we are still quite far from that so a good bit of its parts will probably be Chinese.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Will it completely be indigenous? I'm assuming we are still quite far from that so a good bit of its parts will probably be Chinese.



Whatever it is, it's a step in the right direction.

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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Will it completely be indigenous? I'm assuming we are still quite far from that so a good bit of its parts will probably be Chinese.



It's about the journey not the destination.

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## Rahil Ahmed

I can only hope they dont sell their souls to 2 billion dollars of debt acquiring typhoons or f16s as i said On the defenseca forum:Bangladesh buying brand new Western frames will in the long term be detrimental, Or at least not as helpful as Investing in the future. Bangladesh has spent the last 50 years without any major conflicts, what is to say they cant do for 15 years more. As long as they are supposedly India's lapdog I doubt they will face much of an existential threat. why spend Upwards of a Billion dollars in buying just 1 squadron of typhoons when that money can be well invested in our own infrastructure? Even in a hypothetical war with India and Myanmar 4-5 squadrons of foreign birds wont last long. If Bangladesh wants to become a true power they need to become self sufficient rather than depending on expensive foreign jets. I'd feel much more comfortable if bangladesh could produce their own Jf-17 caliber planes completely by themselves than if they were depending on 1 squadron of eurofighters and 3 squadrons of j10s or Mig 35s. That isnt to say that we shouldnt buy any foreign planes, since that would be inviting conflict. But rather the main focus should be Building ourselves up


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## Indos

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Is it too late for Bangladesh to join and become a part of the program? I assume they would play a relatively small part in the process, but it would pay dividends in the development of Bangladesh's Own indigenous capabilities



No, actually South Korea has said they are open for another program partner. As long as you can invest for the development and promise to buy certain amount of plane, I dont think there will be any problem of that.

If you are inside the program, you will be assisted in production manufacturing since you will make some parts of the plane for all KFX and do assembling and integration for the plane that you are going to buy.

It will be a good opportunity to start an aerospace industry in your country if your leader decide to become a junior partner of the program. Maybe there will be some TOT as well, depending on the negotiation. Although in term of the design, it has already been relatively fixed, so you will not get any design experience as broad as Korea and Indonesia have.

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## leonblack08

Michael Corleone said:


> I’ll be super pissed if they go ahead with j10 now, what’s the use of drama



At this point- after all the years of drama, we should be ecstatic if it turns out to be at least J 10.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635037
> 
> 
> How did he get access to a SU-30? I read somewhere he's related to SHW, is this true?
> 
> I hope there isn't any nepotism at play here.



Su 30 MKI...must have been some training in India.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Maybe they will troll us with another stop-gap measure and get some more F-7BGI


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## leonblack08

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Maybe they will troll us with another stop-gap measure and get some more F-7BGI



Allah maaf koruk!


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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Maybe they will troll us with another stop-gap measure and get some more F-7BGI


Well at least it wont break the bank, For the price of 16 Eurofighters we can get At least 160 F7s



Indos said:


> No, actually South Korea has said they are open for another program partner. As long as you can invest for the development and promise to buy certain amount of plane, I dont think there will be any problem of that.
> 
> If you are inside the program, you will be assisted in production manufacturing since you will make some parts of the plane for all KFX and do assembling and integration for the plane that you are going to buy.
> 
> It will be a good opportunity to start an aerospace industry in your country if your leader decide to become a junior partner of the program. Maybe there will be some TOT as well, depending on the negotiation. Although in term of the design, it has already been relatively fixed, so you will not get any design experience as broad as Korea and Indonesia have.


Have any other nations taken any interest in participating?

Bangladesh has cooperated with Indonesia before, Heres a video of their peacekeeping forces training together.


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## Indos

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Have any other nations taken any interest in participating?



I dont have any news about that. The intention to get another partner is just said early this year. It is IMO due to Indonesia wanting to decrease its financial contribution into 15 % from current 20%.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Indos said:


> I dont have any news about that. The intention to get another partner is just said early this year. It is IMO due to Indonesia wanting to decrease its financial contribution into 15 % from current 20%.


Bangladesh should be able to make up 5%, i don't think that would be more than $500 Million, and it would be $500 M well spent as well. Its a shame the two countries don't have closer relationships, being 2 of the largest Muslim majority countries being separated from the rest of the Islamic world

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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Bangladesh should be able to make up 5%, i don't think that would be more than $500 Million, and it would be $500 M well spent as well. Its a shame the two countries don't have closer relationships, being 2 of the largest Muslim majority countries being separated from the rest of the Islamic world



Indonesia has Muslim neighbours in Malaysia and Brunei.


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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Indonesia has Muslim neighbours in Malaysia and Brunei.


Im just saying that they both have a significant opportunity in becoming major players in the region if they had just worked today, Indonesia is already on its way to becoming a top 5 economy, and while Bangladesh has shown improvement it is still mired in corruption and nepotism. Bangladesh needs Allies that it has somewhat equal footing with and Indonesia is the prime opportunity for such an ally


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Im just saying that they both have a significant opportunity in becoming major players in the region if they had just worked today, Indonesia is already on its way to becoming a top 5 economy, and while Bangladesh has shown improvement it is still mired in corruption and nepotism. Bangladesh needs Allies that it has somewhat equal footing with and Indonesia is the prime opportunity for such an ally



Turkey and Indonesia come to mind.

The bonds are in religion with no overt conflict of interests.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> Turkey and Indonesia come to mind.
> 
> The bonds are in religion with no overt conflict of interests.


The issue with turkey is the proximity and how involved they are in other geopolitical conflicts. Bangladesh and Indonesia however have been relatively peacefully developing for the past few decades.


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## Indos

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Bangladesh should be able to make up 5%, i don't think that would be more than $500 Million, and it would be $500 M well spent as well. Its a shame the two countries don't have closer relationships, being 2 of the largest Muslim majority countries being separated from the rest of the Islamic world



I dont know the minimal amount SK want to get from new partner, but it could be 5 % although 10 percent is more likely, and you need to spend another amount for buying some minimal amount of plane. 

I think it will be beneficial for Bangladesh. You need to build the factory as well and prepare the engineers for production line. It is similar like Indonesia starting the aerospace industry by first getting production license from CASA, Spain, for C-212 plane to start the industry and then make joint venture with CASA in developing CN 235 and develop our design capability from that program. 

For your information, we started aerospace industry in 1976, our GDP is still relatively very small at that time, while Bangladesh is already projected to get at least 800 billion GDP in 2030. 

I think the relation between two nations have already been close. Jokowi have made state visit to Bangladesh in his first term and Bangladesh ordered many train car from Indonesia and invited Indonesia to get into Bangladesh another train car tender in the beginning of this year. We also have tried to make Preferential Trade Agreement since beginning of last year.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> 38 days, looks like MRCA deal will not be signed until next fiscal year


Don't worry. A deal will be signed as soon as the December 2018 election is over.

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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> Don't worry. A deal will be signed as soon as the December 2018 election is over.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Indos said:


> I dont know the minimal amount SK want to get from new partner, but it could be 5 % although 10 percent is more likely, and you need to spend another amount for buying some minimal amount of plane.
> 
> I think it will be beneficial for Bangladesh. You need to build the factory as well and prepare the engineers for production line. It is similar like Indonesia starting the aerospace industry by first getting production license from CASA, Spain, for C-212 plane to start the industry and then make joint venture with CASA in developing CN 235 and develop our design capability from that program.
> 
> For your information, we started aerospace industry in 1976, our GDP is still relatively very small at that time, while Bangladesh is already projected to get at least 800 billion GDP in 2030.
> 
> I think the relation between two nations have already been close. Jokowi have made state visit to Bangladesh in his first term and Bangladesh ordered many train car from Indonesia and invited Indonesia to get into Bangladesh another train car tender in the beginning of this year. We also have tried to make Preferential Trade Agreement since beginning of last year.


Whats's the relationship Between Myanmar and the rest of ASEAN? say that war would break out what would ASEAN do?


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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Whats's the relationship Between Myanmar and the rest of ASEAN? say that war would break out what would ASEAN do?



There won't be a war.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Exactly. He has been reliable about other stuff, it’s BAF’s limbo that effects defseca reputation



He is always desperate to get ahead of the news cycle and also represent BD as some form of major international power which results in him making over-the-top assertions and contradicting himself every few months. Been noticing this since the early 2000s on various platforms.

I have no doubt he wants the best for BD but needs to reel it in a bit and be humble.

BAF is a spineless organisation in need of an overhaul. They can never be an effective fighting force unless there is a change in their mindsets regardless of what platforms they procure.
I recommend BA and BN officers being deputed in BAF leadership roles until they sort their shit out.


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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> There won't be a war.


There's always a possibility, even though its not a probable scenario


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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> There's always a possibility, even though its not a probable scenario



It's very unlikely unless we invade them, which is in itself unlikely.


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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> It's very unlikely unless we invade them, which is in itself unlikely.


Myanmar is kind of a loose cannon that's controlled by its military. Even the slightest bit of escalation might lead them to pulling the trigger and actual war. Thats why Bangladesh has been lenient on their transgressions so far. Its not that we cant do anything about it, its just not worth risking our time and money. Thats why we always tried to make amends and work with the international community peacefully. However a time will come when that will no longer be a possibility and when we must take a strong stance.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Myanmar is kind of a loose cannon that's controlled by its military. Even the slightest bit of escalation might lead them to pulling the trigger and actual war. Thats why Bangladesh has been lenient on their transgressions so far. Its not that we cant do anything about it, its just not worth risking our time and money. Thats why we always tried to make amends and work with the international community peacefully. However a time will come when that will no longer be a possibility and when we must take a strong stance.



Well you just answered your own question, we will continue being lenient. They know well not to push out of their bounds and do something that will force our hand.


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## Avicenna

About 9 billlion USD to develop KFX.

So 5-10% up for grabs?

And they are looking for another potential partner?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_KF-X


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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> About 9 billlion USD to develop KFX.
> 
> So 5-10% up for grabs?
> 
> And they are looking for another potential partner?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_KF-X


Looks like it, Even if we do go Eurofighter, they wont be ready until about 2023. May as well spend that money on the KFX. I assume that all together with infrastructure and training, the Eurofighter Deal would cost anywhere from 1.5 - 2 Billion. If spent on KFX that could net us a better Aerospace industry with a couple of squadrons of the new fighter.


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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Looks like it, Even if we do go Eurofighter, they wont be ready until about 2023. May as well spend that money on the KFX. I assume that all together with infrastructure and training, the Eurofighter Deal would cost anywhere from 1.5 - 2 Billion. If spent on KFX that could net us a better Aerospace industry with a couple of squadrons of the new fighter.



I'm not sure how feasible that is considering the state of the Bangladeshi aviation industry.

InshAllah in time thanks to BSMRAAU.

Pipedream for now. (Would LOVE to be wrong)

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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Looks like it, Even if we do go Eurofighter, they wont be ready until about 2023. May as well spend that money on the KFX. I assume that all together with infrastructure and training, the Eurofighter Deal would cost anywhere from 1.5 - 2 Billion. If spent on KFX that could net us a better Aerospace industry with a couple of squadrons of the new fighter.



Forget it BAF has probably already thought about this and decided to pass, discussing here won't change that. We are so strapped for new information from BAF, we are discussing have and have-nots and what could be-s...... BAF pisses me right the **** off with their fuckwittery

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Forget it BAF has probably already thought about this and decided to pass, discussing here won't change that. We are so strapped for new information from BAF, we are discussing have and have-nots and what could be-s...... BAF pisses me right the **** off with their fuckwittery



Agree.

What can I do.....can't sleep.

Also about KFX....lots of US tech in there.....LM is involved.....good luck getting permission from Uncle Sam.

Unless BAF buys Super Hornet for maritime strike requirement.

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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Forget it BAF has probably already thought about this and decided to pass, discussing here won't change that. We are so strapped for new information from BAF, we are discussing have and have-nots and what could be-s...... BAF pisses me right the **** off with their fuckwittery


That is a pretty cynical point of view which borders on nihilism. Having this forum isn't about changing anything. Otherwise there would be no pint to having a forum, or any discussion at all by the matter of fact. It would just be dead with no new posts other than news updates. We are here to think of the hypotheticals and could have beens. WHile you may like to belive that BAF is full of incompetent fools; that is true to some extent, but there are as one mentioned before, talented people. And our best hope is that those talented people get work done

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## Avicenna

Rahil Ahmed said:


> That is a pretty cynical point of view which borders on nihilism. Having this forum isn't about changing anything. Otherwise there would be no pint to having a forum, or any discussion at all by the matter of fact. It would just be dead with no new posts other than news updates. We are here to think of the hypotheticals and could have beens. WHile you may like to belive that BAF is full of incompetent fools; that is true to some extent, but there are as one mentioned before, talented people. And our best hope is that those talented people get work done



It's fun to discuss at least.

Which is why we are on this thread.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> It's fun to discuss at least.
> 
> Which is why we are on this thread.



Of course it's fun but just think about it, if these hypothetical scenarios were to become a reality...... alas never happening

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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Of course it's fun but just think about it, if these hypothetical scenarios were to become a reality...... alas never happening


As I mentioned before anything is a possibility, Perhaps there is a reason that military works under such secrecy. Maybe to prevent India or China from objecting? I mean we did turn down the 500 Million dollars ,and we have been more defensive of the borders as of late


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## Indos

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Whats's the relationship Between Myanmar and the rest of ASEAN? say that war would break out what would ASEAN do?



Myanmar is part of ASEAN. The relationship is quite good particularly after Myanmar embrace democracy and free Aung San Suki. Despite that, I believe many members dont like what happen with the Rohingya community, particularly Muslim members like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Brunei. So there is political pressure within ASEAN for Myanmar to learn to accept differences of their own people and start taking back Rohingya community to their own country. 

Do you mean war between Bangladesh and Myanmar ? I think international community, including ASEAN, will not like any aggressor, so it depend on the war cause. When small conflict happen between Thailand and Cambodia, Indonesia help mediate the peace process between the two countries. It is what I can say.


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> It's very unlikely unless we invade them, which is in itself unlikely.


Myanmar is not interested in fighting a war against Bangladesh. Their defence modernization is mainly to tackle the Rohingya crisis. The international community might become tired one day and might force Myanmar to take back the Rohingyas. The Burmese generals knows that very well.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> Myanmar is not interested in fighting a war against Bangladesh. Their defence modernization is mainly to tackle the Rohingya crisis. The international community might become tired one day and might force Myanmar to take back the Rohingyas. The Burmese generals knows that very well.


What about the supposed SY-400 accusations, that doesn't seem to be for any internal struggles?


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## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> What about the supposed SY-400 accusations, that doesn't seem to be for any internal struggles?


None of their equipments are for internal struggle. Do you think a country needs an MRCA like Su-30 and JF-17 to tackle some small, unorganised insurgents?

Most of their equipment, in my perspective, is to tackle any one who would try to push the Rohingyas into the Rakhine state or would try to invade Rakhine state to create a state for the Rohingyas.

The pace at which Myanmar is buying new equipments after they conducted the genocide of Rohingyas indicates that the Burmese generals are buying these weapons to counter the Rohingya crisis



DalalErMaNodi said:


> You guys are missing the point. The country is run by the military. The military are people who have been trained and indoctrinated into living with/loving their weapons.
> 
> From what I can tell the Burmese generals love spending money on fancy weapons, for the lack of a better thing to say they get a h#rd on when they buy and fly these expensive machines.
> 
> So they're buying these weapons for personal satisfaction maybe and maybe for feeling powerful..... We all know they're narcissists


Also let me add one more thing.

The Myanmar army is much richer than the Bangladesh army although the common citizens of Myanmar are generally not that we'll off.

In Myanmar, the army has a huge business empire and they have businesses in every field. Also they run a huge drug business particularly heroine and Yaba.

I believe if you can add all the direct and indirect earnings of the Burmese army, then the Burmese army have a greater defence budget than the Bangladesh army because BD army has no black money or business racket.

The dailys star said that yearly more than 50000, crores of Taka are being transported from Bangladesh to Myanmar and this money is going into the hands of the Burmese generals.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> None of their equipments are for internal struggle. Do you think a country needs an MRCA like Su-30 and JF-17 to tackle some small, unorganised insurgents?
> 
> Most of their equipment, in my perspective, is to tackle any one who would try to push the Rohingyas into the Rakhine state or would try to invade Rakhine state to create a state for the Rohingyas.
> 
> The pace at which Myanmar is buying new equipment after they conducted the genocide of Rohingyas indicates that the Burmese generals are buying these weapons to counter the Rohingya crisis


Odds are that Bangladesh will have to deal with Myanmar militarily at one point or the other. You don't just have a neighbor Genocide and push millions of refugees and do nothing about it. The international efforts have all but faded away and Bangladesh has/will have to fend for itself. Myanmar is in no way a benevolent Neighbor, but rather one under military rule and has been proven to use Chemical weapons, along with showing interest in Nuclear and Biological warfare. An Unstable nation is a dangerous one and BD will have to be ready for conflict


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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Dhaka suffers from poor urban planning and industrialization, most of the poor from other areas come to Dhaka to earn a living... it’s not that all of Dhaka is a mess, some of it is actually really good... comparable to the best cities in the world. However most of Dhaka is poorly planned and overpopulated. However this is changing albeit slowly, tanneries have been moved out of Dhaka so the rivers are getting cleaner, the unplanned buildings near the rivers are all demolished, embankments planned in their place etc. things will improve as the economy grows
> 
> Bd will not be the first to wage war, if anything short border conflicts at most, out howitzers and MLRS will make short work of targets in your borders as well... what I see is in case of conflict myanmar trying to take Saint Martin islands and a naval skirmish at seas with air clashes thrown into the mix... not much strategic loss for either side unless myanmar is stupid enough to lunch SRBM to Dhaka, then the war won’t end in any ceasefire as people would want vengeance.
> 
> 
> North Korea doesn’t need to be advanced. It’s mastery in rocket technology enough to hit Japan and South Korea precisely and ownership of nuclear weapons are enough to keep it alive. Myanmar comparatively is nothing more than a wannabe Iraq or Libya and those countries got pummeled by the Americans. If developing nuclear bombs is as easy as you imply, even Maldives would have them... rocketry and nuclear weapons are very complex mechanisms and mastery in them is enough to classify someone as being advanced. They placed their bet right, put the money in research of nukes and rockets instead of tanks and fighters. Burma isn’t even close to that.
> Burma isn’t even good in basic consumer electronics manufacturing, light industries.... just making some trainers and possibly light fighters isn’t sustainable if they don’t give any return on the investment
> 
> Anyways, keep on topic. My mistake, I realize this is the airforce thread. I’m sorry for rambling on


Myanmar can never develop nuclear weapons. They don't have the money and technological base to make nuclear bombs.

A ballistic missile can use both conventional and nuclear warhead and to be honest making a MRBM is not so extremely difficult. If you can have the blueprint for making ballistic missiles or ToT then making a conventional MRBM is pretty easy.


*"Myanmar is like North Korea without Nuclear weapons"
*
You have clearly misunderstood my words. I did not mean Myanmar is as capable as North Korea in making nukes. What I meant is they both are politically similar. They are dictatorships and their way of governance is similar.

@Michael Corleone



Rahil Ahmed said:


> Odds are that Bangladesh will have to deal with Myanmar militarily at one point or the other. You don't just have a neighbor Genocide and push millions of refugees and do nothing about it. The international efforts have all but faded away and Bangladesh has/will have to fend for itself. Myanmar is in no way a benevolent Neighbor, but rather one under military rule and has been proven to use Chemical weapons, along with showing interest in Nuclear and Biological warfare. An Unstable nation is a dangerous one and BD will have to be ready for conflict


Myanmar can never make nuclear weapons it is out of their reach. Yes they can make conventional MRBM if they have the blueprint and ToT from North Korea or China for it. But Nukes or bio weapons are not for the Burmese.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> Myanmar can never develop nuclear weapons. They don't have the money and technological base to make nuclear bombs.
> 
> A ballistic missile can use both conventional and nuclear warhead and to be honest making a MRBM is not so extremely difficult. If you can have the blueprint for making ballistic missiles or ToT then making a conventional MRBM is pretty easy.
> 
> 
> *"Myanmar is like North Korea without Nuclear weapons"
> *
> You have clearly misunderstood my words. I did not mean Myanmar is as capable as North Korea in making nukes. What I meant is they both are politically similar. They are dictatorships and their way of governance is similar.
> 
> @Michael Corleone
> 
> 
> Myanmar can never make nuclear weapons it is out of their reach. Yes they can make conventional MRBM if they have the blueprint and ToT from North Korea or China for it. But Nukes or bio weapons are not for the Burmese.


Nuclear weapons are not that difficult to make, its just the international repercussions that prevents most from making them, However, it is obvious Myanmar isn't afraid of that see:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
it is pretty obvious Myanmar has been interested in WMD's for a while and it is naive to think otherwise. Even though they might not have them now it is a very real possibility that they will in the future. Bangladesh must prepare to prevent that eventuality.


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## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Nuclear weapons are not that difficult to make, its just the international repercussions that prevents most from making them, However, it is obvious Myanmar isn't afraid of that see:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
> it is pretty obvious Myanmar has been interested in WMD's for a while and it is naive to think otherwise. Even though they might not have them now it is a very real possibility that they will in the future. Bangladesh must prepare to prevent that eventuality.


No. Nuclear weapons require highly skilled scientists and scientific base. North Korea is way ahead than Myanmar in scientific field. Also Myanmar signed NPT and ASEAN no nuclear some treaty. The case has been closed. 

However Myanmar can make conventional MRBM like Iran. Conventional MRBMs are not that difficult if you have some type of ToT. Bangladesh can also make conventional MRBM. Just needs patience and some investment.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Why don't we open a new thread for this ? Instead of spamming the air force thread ?


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Why don't we open a new thread for this ? Instead of spamming the air force thread ?


Sure. What do you want to name it?


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Sure. What do you want to name it?


No idea but perhaps something apt....


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> About 9 billlion USD to develop KFX.
> 
> So 5-10% up for grabs?
> 
> And they are looking for another potential partner?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_KF-X
> 
> View attachment 635051
> 
> 
> View attachment 635049
> 
> 
> View attachment 635050


If bd invest 900 million (10%) into the project then there’s only benefits to reap from it. But knuckleheads won’t



Buddhistforlife said:


> Myanmar is not interested in fighting a war against Bangladesh. Their defence modernization is mainly to tackle the Rohingya crisis. The international community might become tired one day and might force Myanmar to take back the Rohingyas. The Burmese generals knows that very well.


They’ll have to take them back one day or the other. It’s just a matter of time.
An economically and military powerful Bangladesh will not be docile... diplomatic pressure is only going to increase


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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> If bd invest 900 million (10%) into the project then there’s only benefits to reap from it. But knuckleheads won’t
> 
> 
> They’ll have to take them back one day or the other. It’s just a matter of time.
> An economically and military powerful Bangladesh will not be docile... diplomatic pressure is only going to increase


Well you can say that indirectly Myanmar wants to fight Bangladesh because Bangladesh is the biggest sufferer of the Rohingya crisis however the main point is that Myanmar is preparing to tackle any pressure and it can come from Bangladesh or anyone.

Okay I am creating a new thread on this Myanmar issue. This section is for BAF.


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## Tigers

Buddhistforlife said:


> The pace at which Myanmar is buying new equipments after they conducted the genocide of Rohingyas indicates that the Burmese generals are buying these weapons to counter the Rohingya crisis




Myanmar army is stockpiling before it is placed under international sanctions for its crimes against humanity.


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## Buddhistforlife

Tigers said:


> Myanmar army is stockpiling before it is placed under international sanctions for its crimes against humanity.


Myanmar is already under a number of US sanctions. They cannot buy weapons from the west and no western nation can have economic relation with them. Their main supplier is China and Russia. Myanmar buy equipment from North Korea too but they don't expose much about their ties with North Korea.

Israel also sells equipment to Myanmar. I think amongst western allies, only Israel is selling equipments to Myanmar. 

Whatever the case, Myanmar is under sanction and cannot have deal with the Yanks and Europeans.


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Well you can say that indirectly Myanmar wants to fight Bangladesh because Bangladesh is the biggest sufferer of the Rohingya crisis however the main point is that Myanmar is preparing to tackle any pressure and it can come from Bangladesh or anyone.
> 
> Okay I am creating a new thread on this Myanmar issue. This section is for BAF.


Let’s be real, all that effort is futile if they can’t sustain it


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## DalalErMaNodi

Arrogance...... Makes it sound as if XI and SHW are having dinner together.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635161
> 
> View attachment 635162
> 
> 
> Arrogance...... Makes it sound as if XI and SHW are having dinner together.


Ah shit I’m really not happy about this. Just because they wasted so much time going back and forth. I heard this a couple of days ago but wasn’t allowed to talk about this


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635161
> 
> View attachment 635162
> 
> 
> Arrogance.


Yes it is true that China loves Myanmar more than Bangladesh but that does not mean China wouldn't sell equipment to BD. China maintains business relation with BD. What they have with Myanmar is an all whether friendship. After military takeover in 1962, it is China alone who is keeping Myanmar alive.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Ah shit I’m really not happy about this. Just because they wasted so much time going back and forth. I heard this a couple of days ago but wasn’t allowed to talk about this



Heard what about J10? where? then its confirmed?



Buddhistforlife said:


> Yes it is true that China loves Myanmar more than Bangladesh but that does not mean China wouldn't sell equipment to BD. China maintains business relation with BD. What they have with Myanmar is an all whether friendship. After military takeover in 1962, it is China alone who is keeping Myanmar alive.



SY-400


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Heard what about J10? where? then its confirmed?
> 
> 
> 
> SY-400


Also Chengdu J10C is not a MRCA. It is an interceptor. For BD, Saab Gripen, F 16 block 70/72 is good enough.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Heard what about J10? where? then its confirmed?
> 
> 
> 
> SY-400


Oh yeah about SY-400, I yesterday read wikipedia and its written that Myanmar bought SY-400. However they did not mention the quantity


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Also Chengdu J10C is not a MRCA. It is an interceptor. For BD, Saab Gripen, F 16 block 70/72 is good enough.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah about SY-400, I yesterday read wikipedia and its written that Myanmar bought SY-400. However they did not mention the quantity
> 
> View attachment 635165
> 
> 
> View attachment 635166



That's not what I mean I know that J10C are going to replace the F-7s but the point is BAF is once again sidelining from 16x MRCA they claimed to have bought.


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> That's not what I mean I know that J10C are going to replace the F-7s but the point is BAF is once again sidelining from 16x MRCA they claimed to have bought.


I think BAF already bought 16 mrca. They will show it when those 16 jets will be commissioned into the air force. 

But as for now BAF has made three choices-Dassault Rafale, EFT and Chengdu J10c


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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635161
> 
> View attachment 635162
> 
> 
> Arrogance...... Makes it sound as if XI and SHW are having dinner together.


Typical Amra Khan flip flop on display. He went from "China being punished by BD due to disappointment over Rohingya issue (because the world revolves around BD)" to "China stuck by BD like superglue, you know nothing Jon Snow...".

Take anything he says about BAF with a grain of salt.

All the rhetorics aside, J-10C is the easiest choice for BAF.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Al-Ansar said:


> Typical Amra Khan flip flop in display. He went from "China being punished by BD due to disappointment over Rohingya issue (because the world revolves around BD)" to "China stuck by BD like superglue, you know nothing Jon Snow...".



I will get booted from that Facebook group soon, I can sense it.


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## mb444

BD needs to move away from china now....period....maintain and engage economically absolutelt but it is time disengage and downgrade militarily. 

It is better to remain weak than buy weapons from our enemies freind.

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## tarpitz

Buddhistforlife said:


> Myanmar is already under a number of US sanctions. They cannot buy weapons from the west and no western nation can have economic relation with them. Their main supplier is China and Russia. Myanmar buy equipment from North Korea too but they don't expose much about their ties with North Korea.
> 
> Israel also sells equipment to Myanmar. I think amongst western allies, only Israel is selling equipments to Myanmar.
> 
> Whatever the case, Myanmar is under sanction and cannot have deal with the Yanks and Europeans.



Not true.
Many western countries sell weapons to Myanmar.

Myanmar Armed Forces is using G 120TP aircraft from Germany, AS 365 and EC 120 helicopters from France, Schiebel Camcopter S-100 from Austrian, 76 mm naval guns from Italy, Fokker 70 from Netherlands.Spare parts are also available.

France ATR is also operating a repair and maintenance facility in Myanmar since 2016 and that factory repaired all ATR aircraft from Myanmar including ATR 42 and 72 from MAF as well as those from other countries. 

For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much. 

However MAF acquired 8 Beechcraft 1900 aircrafts from US between 2015 and 2020.

Myanmar also acquired LPD from Korea. If US interfered the sale, Korea won’t sell it.

US is also accepting a number of Myanmar military officers for training especially in APCSS in Hawaii.

Actually Myanmar is operating more western military hardware than Bangladesh.

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## Michael Corleone

Yes I do not support getting j10 anymore. Save some more, get the gripen with meteor



tarpitz said:


> Not true.
> Many western countries sell weapons to Myanmar.
> 
> Myanmar Armed Forces is using G 120TP aircraft from Germany, AS 365 and EC 120 helicopters from France, Schiebel Camcopter S-100 from Austrian, 76 mm naval guns from Italy, Fokker 70 from Netherlands.Spare parts are also available.
> 
> France ATR is also operating a repair and maintenance facility in Myanmar since 2016 and that factory repaired all ATR aircraft from Myanmar including ATR 42 and 72 from MAF as well as those from other countries.
> 
> For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much.
> 
> However MAF acquired 8 Beechcraft 1900 aircrafts from US between 2015 and 2020.
> 
> Myanmar also acquired LPD from Korea. If US interfered the sale, Korea won’t sell it.
> 
> US is also accepting a number of Myanmar military officers for training especially in APCSS in Hawaii.
> 
> Actually Myanmar is operating more western military hardware than Bangladesh.


Last paragraph is wrong and Germany placed embargo on you guys so did the EU.... get your facts right

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## ghost250

tarpitz said:


> Not true.
> Many western countries sell weapons to Myanmar.
> 
> Myanmar Armed Forces is using G 120TP aircraft from Germany, AS 365 and EC 120 helicopters from France, Schiebel Camcopter S-100 from Austrian, 76 mm naval guns from Italy, Fokker 70 from Netherlands.Spare parts are also available.
> 
> France ATR is also operating a repair and maintenance facility in Myanmar since 2016 and that factory repaired all ATR aircraft from Myanmar including ATR 42 and 72 from MAF as well as those from other countries.
> 
> For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much.
> 
> However MAF acquired 8 Beechcraft 1900 aircrafts from US between 2015 and 2020.
> 
> Myanmar also acquired LPD from Korea. If US interfered the sale, Korea won’t sell it.
> 
> US is also accepting a number of Myanmar military officers for training especially in APCSS in Hawaii.
> 
> *Actually Myanmar is operating more western military hardware than Bangladesh*.



 tell us more!!


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## Buddhistforlife

tarpitz said:


> Not true.
> Many western countries sell weapons to Myanmar.
> 
> Myanmar Armed Forces is using G 120TP aircraft from Germany, AS 365 and EC 120 helicopters from France, Schiebel Camcopter S-100 from Austrian, 76 mm naval guns from Italy, Fokker 70 from Netherlands.Spare parts are also available.
> 
> France ATR is also operating a repair and maintenance facility in Myanmar since 2016 and that factory repaired all ATR aircraft from Myanmar including ATR 42 and 72 from MAF as well as those from other countries.
> 
> For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much.
> 
> However MAF acquired 8 Beechcraft 1900 aircrafts from US between 2015 and 2020.
> 
> Myanmar also acquired LPD from Korea. If US interfered the sale, Korea won’t sell it.
> 
> US is also accepting a number of Myanmar military officers for training especially in APCSS in Hawaii.
> 
> Actually Myanmar is operating more western military hardware than Bangladesh.


*"For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much"*

For Myanmar Russian weapons are also somewhat expensive. MAF could only afford 6 Su-30 that's it. @Aung Zaya also admitted that you guys cannot afford later variants like Su-34 and Su-35.

If you consider bulk buying(15 plus aircrafts) then MAF can afford only Chinese products.



tarpitz said:


> Not true.
> Many western countries sell weapons to Myanmar.
> 
> Myanmar Armed Forces is using G 120TP aircraft from Germany, AS 365 and EC 120 helicopters from France, Schiebel Camcopter S-100 from Austrian, 76 mm naval guns from Italy, Fokker 70 from Netherlands.Spare parts are also available.
> 
> France ATR is also operating a repair and maintenance facility in Myanmar since 2016 and that factory repaired all ATR aircraft from Myanmar including ATR 42 and 72 from MAF as well as those from other countries.
> 
> For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much.
> 
> However MAF acquired 8 Beechcraft 1900 aircrafts from US between 2015 and 2020.
> 
> Myanmar also acquired LPD from Korea. If US interfered the sale, Korea won’t sell it.
> 
> US is also accepting a number of Myanmar military officers for training especially in APCSS in Hawaii.
> 
> Actually Myanmar is operating more western military hardware than Bangladesh.


American weapons are far more expensive than Russian weapons.


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## MINN

Buddhistforlife said:


> *"For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much"*
> 
> For Myanmar Russian weapons are also somewhat expensive. MAF could only afford 6 Su-30 that's it. @Aung Zaya also admitted that you guys cannot afford later variants like Su-34 and Su-35.
> 
> If you consider bulk buying(15 plus aircrafts) then MAF can afford only Chinese products.
> 
> 
> American weapons are far more expensive than Russian weapons.


That's exactly what he said we can't afford US equipment. Also while at it there is quite a lot of US equipment in the hand of the Myanmar border guard forces. They have everything from Humvees to various M16, M4, AR platforms. Israeli Tavors, British L115, and Turkish Uzkon UNG-12.

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## Buddhistforlife

This guy said that in BAF website they mentioned that Bangladesh is buying SU-30. Is it true or just another hogwash?

@Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 635293
> 
> 
> This guy said that in BAF website they mentioned that Bangladesh is buying SU-30. Is it true or just another hogwash?
> 
> @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi



The only time SU-30 is mentioned on the BAF site is when it says that the chief of air staff has flown the said jet in his illustrious flying career.






I strongly believe that BAF has made it awfully clear that they aren't going to be considering any russian jets atleast for the foreseeable future. The reasons are obvious and have been stated and deliberated over on this forum on multiple occasions.

Anybody claiming otherwise is lying through their teeth, in an apparent attempt at creating hype and generating clout around their page/group.

The information has either been made up, as stated above or it is information some amateur gleaned off of BAF's Wikipedia page which incorrectly mentions BAF as having ordered for 8 SU-30 SMEs.


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 635293
> 
> 
> This guy said that in BAF website they mentioned that Bangladesh is buying SU-30. Is it true or just another hogwash?
> 
> @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi


Read properly. He saw that in Wikipedia -_-


----------



## Avicenna

Taken from the following article regarding the BAF Mig-29 in Belarus possibly being upgraded to Mig-29BM standard.

*https://www.defenseworld.net/featur...e_Refurbished_Fighter_Jet_Market#.Xstv2mhKguU

Belarus*

The MiG-29BM (possibly Bolyshaya Modernizaciya - large modernization) is an upgrade to the MiG-29 conducted by the ARZ-558 aircraft repair plant in Baranovichi, Belarus.

The MiG-29BM is a strike variant of the MiG-29 pure fighter, the Belarussian counterpart to the Russian MiG-29SMT. This work is being done by the 558th Aviation Repair Plant with participation of Russian Avionics and in interaction with RSK MiG. Details of the upgrade are listed below.

Armament of air-to-air class is supplemented with additional medium-range missiles RVV-AE, R-27ER and R-27ET, precision-guided weapons such as KAB-500Kr and KAB-500L bombs. Overall, MiG-29BM can carry two air-to-surface missiles and two or four corrected bombs.

The radar homing system of modernized fighter MiG-29BM uses a number of new working modes. Modernized radar N019P of this airplane provides for observation of earth and water surface with the detection of single and group, pinpoint and prolonged ground and water-surface radio-contrast targets.

A new navigation system N-911 includes a navigation computer, a receiver of satellite navigation system GLONASS/NAVSTAR, radio technical system of close-range navigation A-323 and navigation and landing system VOR/ILS and DME.

MiG-29BM is complemented with an aerial refueling system. An easily dismantled refueling rod that is not retracted in flight is installed in the nose part of the fuselage on the left side.

Tests of the MiG-29BM (aircraft "9-11") were successfully completed by July 2003, and plant in Baranovichi began the delivery of the first modernized "MiGs" to the Belarus Air Force. A modernised MiG-29BM was on show at the international aviation and space salon MAKS 2005 in Moscow and evoked much interest of representatives of many countries. By mid-2007 several examples of this aircraft, together with a modernized Su-27UBM, were on duty in the Belarusian air force fleet.







It looks like the first batch were sent over to Belarus on 10/19.

So perhaps expecting delivery around 4/21??

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Taken from the following article regarding the BAF Mig-29 in Belarus possibly being upgraded to Mig-29BM standard.
> 
> *https://www.defenseworld.net/featur...e_Refurbished_Fighter_Jet_Market#.Xstv2mhKguU
> 
> Belarus*
> 
> The MiG-29BM (possibly Bolyshaya Modernizaciya - large modernization) is an upgrade to the MiG-29 conducted by the ARZ-558 aircraft repair plant in Baranovichi, Belarus.
> 
> The MiG-29BM is a strike variant of the MiG-29 pure fighter, the Belarussian counterpart to the Russian MiG-29SMT. This work is being done by the 558th Aviation Repair Plant with participation of Russian Avionics and in interaction with RSK MiG. Details of the upgrade are listed below.
> 
> Armament of air-to-air class is supplemented with additional medium-range missiles RVV-AE, R-27ER and R-27ET, precision-guided weapons such as KAB-500Kr and KAB-500L bombs. Overall, MiG-29BM can carry two air-to-surface missiles and two or four corrected bombs.
> 
> The radar homing system of modernized fighter MiG-29BM uses a number of new working modes. Modernized radar N019P of this airplane provides for observation of earth and water surface with the detection of single and group, pinpoint and prolonged ground and water-surface radio-contrast targets.
> 
> A new navigation system N-911 includes a navigation computer, a receiver of satellite navigation system GLONASS/NAVSTAR, radio technical system of close-range navigation A-323 and navigation and landing system VOR/ILS and DME.
> 
> MiG-29BM is complemented with an aerial refueling system. An easily dismantled refueling rod that is not retracted in flight is installed in the nose part of the fuselage on the left side.
> 
> Tests of the MiG-29BM (aircraft "9-11") were successfully completed by July 2003, and plant in Baranovichi began the delivery of the first modernized "MiGs" to the Belarus Air Force. A modernised MiG-29BM was on show at the international aviation and space salon MAKS 2005 in Moscow and evoked much interest of representatives of many countries. By mid-2007 several examples of this aircraft, together with a modernized Su-27UBM, were on duty in the Belarusian air force fleet.
> 
> View attachment 635396
> 
> 
> It looks like the first batch were sent over to Belarus on 10/19.
> 
> So perhaps expecting delivery around 4/21??


They will be delivered back by late 2020.

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## Tagaung

Buddhistforlife said:


> Yes they can make conventional MRBM if they have the blueprint and ToT from North Korea or China for it.



According to journalist Bertil Lintner, this is the site for producing and researching Ballistic missile. 

Location: Near Pauk, Myanmar
Coordinates: 21°29'39.2"N 94°21'48.1"E








Photo: underground tunnel connecting two facilities.


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Tagaung said:


> According to journalist Bertil Lintner, this is the site for producing and researching Ballistic missile.
> 
> Location: Near Pauk, Myanmar
> Coordinates: 21°29'39.2"N 94°21'48.1"E
> 
> View attachment 635428
> View attachment 635429
> 
> Photo: underground tunnel connecting two facilities.


Once I read about Naypidaw in wikipedia. There it was mentioned that there is residence for ministers, army officials, a huge cantonment and some tunnels. But those are restricted for the common people.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> They will be delivered back by late 2020.


aren't all 8 sent already? @Avicenna


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Another day, another hoax being floated by Amar Khan's group (This post was by a moderator).

In my personal opinion, BAF will go for EFT and J10c, makes the most sense to me. Rafale was an option but considering India also uses the same platform, I doubt BAF will be keen on getting the Rafale unless EFT is out of reach; Which we know its not.

Now what I'm curious about is whether we are getting second hand airframes or new ones for the EFT.


----------



## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635439
> 
> View attachment 635440
> 
> View attachment 635441
> 
> 
> Another day, another hoax being floated by Amar Khan's group (This post was by a moderator).
> 
> In my personal opinion, BAF will go for EFT and J10c, makes the most sense to me. Rafale was an option but considering India also uses the same platform, I doubt BAF will be keen on getting the Rafale unless EFT is out of reach; Which we know its not.
> 
> Now what I'm curious about is whether we are getting second hand airframes or new ones for the EFT.


I think the most trusted Bangladeshi defence page is Defence Update Bangladesh. I find their news trustworthy. Others are simply into appeasement.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635439
> 
> View attachment 635440
> 
> View attachment 635441
> 
> 
> Another day, another hoax being floated by Amar Khan's group (This post was by a moderator).
> 
> In my personal opinion, BAF will go for EFT and J10c, makes the most sense to me. Rafale was an option but considering India also uses the same platform, I doubt BAF will be keen on getting the Rafale unless EFT is out of reach; Which we know its not.
> 
> Now what I'm curious about is whether we are getting second hand airframes or new ones for the EFT.


For me F/16 block 70/72 or Gripen is the best choice for BAF. EFT is expensive and Chengdu J10c is not a MRCA, it's an interceptor.


----------



## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635439
> 
> View attachment 635440
> 
> View attachment 635441
> 
> 
> Another day, another hoax being floated by Amar Khan's group (This post was by a moderator).
> 
> In my personal opinion, BAF will go for EFT and J10c, makes the most sense to me. Rafale was an option but considering India also uses the same platform, I doubt BAF will be keen on getting the Rafale unless EFT is out of reach; Which we know its not.
> 
> Now what I'm curious about is whether we are getting second hand airframes or new ones for the EFT.


i got told in dm to know the dintinction between post by defseca and a user (in this case a mod) i talked with the mod, he says his sources are seperate from defseca and he haven't talked with defseca or SAK, i asked him to remove it. unprofessional conduct at best...

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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> aren't all 8 sent already? @Avicenna


Nope. Only 4. Upgrade of second batch will start next year.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> I think the most trusted Bangladeshi defence page is Defence Update Bangladesh. I find their news trustworthy. Others are simply into appeasement.



No, that guy is clueless. More emotional rants than realism.

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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> No, that guy is clueless. More emotional rants than realism.


Didn't knew that. But he never makes stupid claims like some other defence channels. I even know one Bangladeshi defence channel who claimed that Bangladesh brought scientists from China to make nukes. Lol. At least Defence Update Bangladesh does not make these type of absurd claims. Also most times he provides proof of his claims.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Didn't knew that. But he never makes stupid claims like some other defence channels. I even know one Bangladeshi defence channel who claimed that Bangladesh brought scientists from China to make nukes. Lol. At least Defence Update Bangladesh does not make these type of absurd claims. Also most times he provides proof of his claims.



Making up stuff? He doesn't, not often anyway.

But his analysis of geopolitics is always off point, A dumb nationalist.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Didn't knew that. But he never makes stupid claims like some other defence channels. I even know one Bangladeshi defence channel who claimed that Bangladesh brought scientists from China to make nukes. Lol. At least Defence Update Bangladesh does not make these type of absurd claims. Also most times he provides proof of his claims.


Clearly you haven’t watched his channel for long

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Clearly you haven’t watched his channel for long


----------



## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> aren't all 8 sent already? @Avicenna



Let's go with 4 sent.

My only source of info is the internet lol.

So about this upgrade.....

How much is it gonna cost?

Are new munitions coming as well specifically Kh-31?

And from who are those weapons being bought? Belarus stock?

Are the refurbished Fulcrums gonna have A2A refuelling capability?

Also will they have a "fat back"?

Lets discuss!

Also, enough with the Burma stuff on here.


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Let's go with 4 sent.
> 
> My only source of info is the internet lol.
> 
> So about this upgrade.....
> 
> How much is it gonna cost?
> 
> Are new munitions coming as well specifically Kh-31?
> 
> And from who are those weapons being bought? Belarus stock?
> 
> Are the refurbished Fulcrums gonna have A2A refuelling capability?
> 
> Also will they have a "fat back"?
> 
> Lets discuss!
> 
> Also, enough with the Burma stuff on here.



Kh 31 is possible. From what i gathered in past months, BAF wants these 8 to maritime strike role till a dedicated squadron can be raised. 

No A2A refuelling capability.

AFAIK no structural modifications are on table. They are just getting an updated IRST system for the dual sitters, to make them able to fire BVR missiles.

Rest of the package is just oriented to make them A2G capable.

Overhauling the engine & air frame is the main concentration.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Let's go with 4 sent.
> 
> My only source of info is the internet lol.
> 
> So about this upgrade.....
> 
> How much is it gonna cost?
> 
> Are new munitions coming as well specifically Kh-31?
> 
> And from who are those weapons being bought? Belarus stock?
> 
> Are the refurbished Fulcrums gonna have A2A refuelling capability?
> 
> Also will they have a "fat back"?
> 
> Lets discuss!
> 
> Also, enough with the Burma stuff on here.


no fat back. increased structural support. air refueling probe that doesn't retract within the frame. they'll become multirole fighter and capable of maritime strike mission

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Kh 31 is possible. From what i gathered in past months, BAF wants these 8 to maritime strike role till a full squadron can be raised.
> 
> No A2A refuelling capability.
> 
> AFAIK no structural modifications are on table. They are just getting an updated IRST system for the dual sitters, to make them able to fire BVR missiles.
> 
> Rest of the package is just oriented to make them A2G capable.
> 
> Overhauling the engine & air frame is the main concentration.



Only the 6 single seaters have radar so the antiship mission is limited to those.

Then its gonna be interesting to see what weapons they will carry to fulfill that role.

Also, this makes we wonder if we will buy the J-10 in some capacity later on if we get Kh-31, is YJ-91 that far behind for any potential J-10CE.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Only the 6 single seaters have radar so the antiship mission is limited to those.
> 
> Then its gonna be interesting to see what weapons they will carry to fulfill that role.
> 
> Also, this makes we wonder if we will buy the J-10 in some capacity later on if we get Kh-31, is YJ-91 that far behind for any potential J-10CE.


Well, I am still not convinced that there will be any fighter acquisition in immediate future.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Well, I am still not convinced that there will be any fighter acquisition in immediate future.



Perhaps not.

I guess we can feast on videos like this instead.
















(I can't understand the writing but perhaps in the pics are examples of some new munitions BAF will obtain post-upgrade)

Also, if there are any BAF people reading this PLEASE bless us all with a new grey camo on these refurbished Fulcrums at least. (similar to the Yaks or BG/BGI)

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Perhaps not.
> 
> I guess we can feast on videos like this instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I can't understand the writing but perhaps in the pics are examples of some new munitions BAF will obtain post-upgrade)
> 
> Also, if there are any BAF people reading this PLEASE bless us all with a new grey camo on these refurbished Fulcrums at least. (similar to the Yaks or BG/BGI)


the plant screams soviet... some hospital compounds i go to has similar fashioned interior. makes you feel like living in the past

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> the plant screams soviet... some hospital compounds i go to has similar fashioned interior. makes you feel like living in the past



I love it.

I have always been fond of Soviet style things.

But I am sure reality is quite difference from my romanticism.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I love it.
> 
> I have always been fond of Soviet style things.
> 
> But I am sure reality is quite difference from my romanticism.


it has its ups and downs... like i was really shocked at how beautiful the neurology department was... the interir was unique... i would imagine that's ballers level of architectural design in soviet building... whereas the psychology department was like a prison
anyways the aircrafts were long overdue... i had seen a photo before that seemed show the paint chipped all over the airframe ... DSLR caught all the imperfections... maybe a new spray to YAK 130 gray?

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## DalalErMaNodi

SAK bhai is toying with us now........

I sincerely hope this is true. 

Btw does anyone know If BAF pilots get comprehensive training abroad? A skilled pilot is what you need as shown by FEB 26th incident.


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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635620
> 
> 
> SAK bhai is toying with us now........
> 
> I sincerely hope this is true.
> 
> Btw does anyone know If BAF pilots get comprehensive training abroad? A skilled pilot is what you need as shown by FEB 26th incident.



I would be OK with this.


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## Destranator

At this point, we need to take anything we can get. The current fleet is an absolute joke and national tragedy.

For the light/medium fighter segment, I hope we can eventually get a Western fighter to complement J-10 in order to keep the fleet reliable and high tech and have a qualitative edge over Myanmar.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635620
> 
> 
> SAK bhai is toying with us now........
> 
> I sincerely hope this is true.
> 
> Btw does anyone know If BAF pilots get comprehensive training abroad? A skilled pilot is what you need as shown by FEB 26th incident.





Avicenna said:


> I would be OK with this.


Remember the baretta AX-103 said to have won the assault rifle competition?
He was toying with people because many other defense related page later published the same story. It was in fact faux news...
Something German is all I’m going to say

and yeah pretty bummed that after all the drama it’s j10. Probably f16 didn’t work out as source code wouldn’t have been shared with bd rendering those jets nothing more than air show birds

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## Buddhistforlife

Al-Ansar said:


> At this point, we need to take anything we can get. The current fleet is an absolute joke and national tragedy.
> 
> For the light/medium fighter segment, I hope we can eventually get a Western fighter to complement J-10 in order to keep the fleet reliable and high tech and have a qualitative edge over Myanmar.


SAAB Gripen is a lightweight MRCA. Its much cheaper than EFT.


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Remember the baretta AX-103 said to have won the assault rifle competition?
> He was toying with people because many other defense related page later published the same story. It was in fact faux news...
> Something German is all I’m going to say
> 
> and yeah pretty bummed that after all the drama it’s j10. Probably f16 didn’t work out as source code wouldn’t have been shared with bd rendering those jets nothing more than air show birds



What is German?


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> What is German?



I'm guessing the gun.....
Perhaps the G36?


----------



## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> Remember the baretta AX-103 said to have won the assault rifle competition?
> He was toying with people because many other defense related page later published the same story. It was in fact faux news...
> Something German is all I’m going to say
> 
> and yeah pretty bummed that after all the drama it’s j10. Probably f16 didn’t work out as source code wouldn’t have been shared with bd rendering those jets nothing more than air show birds


Even China will not give the source codes to anyone. Despite of JF 17, PAF is trying to develop a radar & codes on their own, says a lot.

Advantage of J10 is, BAF will be able to access BVRAAM in a good numbers within a reasonable budget.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Even China will not give the source codes to anyone. Despite of JF 17, PAF is trying to develop a radar & codes on their own, says a lot.
> 
> Advantage of J10 is, BAF will be able to access BVRAAM in a good numbers within a reasonable budget.



Supposedly China was offering PAF a watered down version of J-10C.

I can assume any version offered to BAF will be even more downgraded. Still it beats nothing. Also J-10 will probably allow for a quicker entry into service.

I just hope BAF buys this in numbers and with KJ-200/500.

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## LKJ86

Avicenna said:


> Supposedly China was offering PAF a watered down version of J-10C.


Just based on the money you can pay.


DalalErMaNodi said:


>


Why would BAF buy EFT and J-10 at the same time? EFT alone is enough.


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## Rahil Ahmed

LKJ86 said:


> Just based on the money you can pay.
> 
> Why would BAF buy EFT and J-10 at the same time? EFT alone is enough.


Not really, the maximum amount of Eurofighters we can get is about 2 squadrons in the next 10 years. THere is also still a requirement for a Maritime Strike aircraft along with a single engined jet


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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> Even China will not give the source codes to anyone. Despite of JF 17, PAF is trying to develop a radar & codes on their own, says a lot.
> 
> Advantage of J10 is, BAF will be able to access BVRAAM in a good numbers within a reasonable budget.





Avicenna said:


> Supposedly China was offering PAF a watered down version of J-10C.
> 
> I can assume any version offered to BAF will be even more downgraded. Still it beats nothing. Also J-10 will probably allow for a quicker entry into service.
> 
> I just hope BAF buys this in numbers and with KJ-200/500.


i guess bangladesh will have to write its own codes and try integrating it with western avionics and sensors? so i've got a question... how does it play out in conflict... for example bd and myanmar is in one... can china refuse acess to its platform to fire at burmese possessions like america does with basically every country in the world? what's the use of buying anything at that point... better to invest all that money in programs like KFX/ TFX for a better return on your investment



Avicenna said:


> What is German?


assault rifle

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> i guess bangladesh will have to write its own codes and try integrating it with western avionics and sensors? so i've got a question... how does it play out in conflict... for example bd and myanmar is in one... can china refuse acess to its platform to fire at burmese possessions like america does with basically every country in the world? what's the use of buying anything at that point... better to invest all that money in programs like KFX/ TFX for a better return on your investment
> 
> 
> assault rifle



I can’t see Bangladesh writing any kind of code or the integration of Western systems on J-10.

As for conflict with Myanmar, I have no idea how that would be handled other than to rely on any Western weapons obtained, non restricted Chinese weapons and diplomacy by China to avert armed conflict between the two nations.

What will be clear is that if Bangladesh does buy the J-10, it’s made it’s choice as seeing India as a more significant threat than Myanmar.

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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> I can’t see Bangladesh writing any kind of code or the integration of Western systems on J-10.
> 
> As for conflict with Myanmar, I have no idea how that would be handled other than to rely on any Western weapons obtained, non restricted Chinese weapons and diplomacy by China to avert armed conflict between the two nations.
> 
> What will be clear is that if Bangladesh does buy the J-10, it’s made it’s choice as seeing India as a more significant threat than Myanmar.



I don't think we need to think too much about what China will do in case of war with Myanmar.

China has a history of supplying both sides during war- Iraq-Iran war for example. So, even in the distant chance there is a war with Myanmar, China will supply both sides as long as they get paid. So that makes them reliable.

Given the fact that Chinese platform is the only one that is resistant to Dadagiri of India, J 10 is the only logical choice for BAF to form the core of the fighter fleet.

Anything additional like EFT can only be operated on a very small number given our budget. Therefore, they can only be the cherry on top.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> I don't think we need to think too much about what China will do in case of war with Myanmar.
> 
> China has a history of supplying both sides during war- Iraq-Iran war for example. So, even in the distant chance there is a war with Myanmar, China will supply both sides as long as they get paid. So that makes them reliable.
> 
> Given the fact that Chinese platform is the only one that is resistant to Dadagiri of India, J 10 is the only logical choice for BAF to form the core of the fighter fleet.
> 
> Anything additional like EFT can only be operated on a very small number given our budget. Therefore, they can only be the cherry on top.



Agree completely at this point.

I wonder what the numbers will be.

Also hope PL-15 and PL-10 are on the table.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Michael Corleone

leonblack08 said:


> I don't think we need to think too much about what China will do in case of war with Myanmar.
> 
> China has a history of supplying both sides during war- Iraq-Iran war for example. So, even in the distant chance there is a war with Myanmar, China will supply both sides as long as they get paid. So that makes them reliable.
> 
> Given the fact that Chinese platform is the only one that is resistant to Dadagiri of India, J 10 is the only logical choice for BAF to form the core of the fighter fleet.
> 
> Anything additional like EFT can only be operated on a very small number given our budget. Therefore, they can only be the cherry on top.


Yes, China is business oriented and they’ll side with the one from whom money comes in.


----------



## Tom-tom

leonblack08 said:


> I don't think we need to think too much about what China will do in case of war with Myanmar.
> 
> China has a history of supplying both sides during war- Iraq-Iran war for example. So, even in the distant chance there is a war with Myanmar, China will supply both sides as long as they get paid. So that makes them reliable.
> 
> Given the fact that Chinese platform is the only one that is resistant to Dadagiri of India, J 10 is the only logical choice for BAF to form the core of the fighter fleet.
> 
> Anything additional like EFT can only be operated on a very small number given our budget. Therefore, they can only be the cherry on top.




So j-10s has been decided? The thing is though is, that China has strong emotional sentiment towards Myanmar. Iraq and Iran, at the time china didn't care as who ever wins, China has them wrapped by their little finger.



Michael Corleone said:


> Yes, China is business oriented and they’ll side with the one from whom money comes in.



Yeh, but china is the only one that's keeping myammar afloat. So mymamar will end up buying arms with literally Chinese giving them money given to them.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Tom-tom said:


> Yeh, but china is the only one that's keeping myammar afloat. So mymamar will end buying with literally Chinese giving them money.


I’m telling you, China will not like a India centric Burma, they’ll end up angering their masters and falling in one way or the other.

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## leonblack08

Tom-tom said:


> So j-10s has been decided? The thing is though is, that China has strong emotional sentiment towards Myanmar. Iraq and Iran, at the time china didn't care as who ever wins, China has them wrapped by their little finger.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeh, but china is the only one that's keeping myammar afloat. So mymamar will end up buying arms with literally Chinese giving them money given to them.



When it comes to BAF, nothing is confirmed until you see it in person.

China shelters Myanmar for the same reason it wants good relationship with Bangladesh. So that China can keep countries surrounding India loyal to China.

For their own geopolitical gain, they wouldn't want to see either BD or Myanmar fall into Indian camp.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> I’m telling you, China will not like a India centric Burma, they’ll end up angering their masters and falling in one way or the other.


 
I saw a report in a Sanghi magazine this year that accused the Chinese of supporting the Arakan Army with arms and ammunition from Norinco via Bangladesh.

Like everything else, half of it is probably true.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> I saw a report in a Sanghi magazine this year that accused the Chinese of supporting the Arakan Army with arms and ammunition from Norinco via Bangladesh.
> 
> Like everything else, half of it is probably true.


Arakan arms are american... all AR rifles and whatnot

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Rahil Ahmed

Will the MRCA procurement be off the 2019-20 budget or 2020-21 Budget?


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Will the MRCA procurement be off the 2019-20 budget or 2020-21 Budget?


I think 2019-2020. Because MRCA was declared before.



Michael Corleone said:


> Arakan arms are american... all AR rifles and whatnot


Also Arakan army and other insurgents get guns from the black market too.


----------



## Destranator

Buddhistforlife said:


> I think 2019-2020. Because MRCA was declared before.



Can't spend allocation for 19-20 in 20-21.
Not the government's fault though that BAF is run by a bunch of imbeciles.
Covid is hardly any barrier to procurement which is mostly paperwork and official inspections.


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Al-Ansar said:


> Can't spend allocation for 19-20 in 20-21.
> Not the government's fault though that BAF is run by a bunch of imbeciles.
> Covid is hardly any barrier to procurement which is mostly paperwork and official inspections.


I think Bangladesh armed forces should become like Indian armed forces and the Burmese armed forces. I mean combining all 3 services under one department. India inaugurated the post of Chief of defence services last year. I think this is required for more efficient procurement. 

BAF cannot run alone.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> I think Bangladesh armed forces should become like Indian armed forces and the Burmese armed forces. I mean combining all 3 services under one department. India inaugurated the post of Chief of defence services last year. I think this is required for more efficient procurement.
> 
> BAF cannot run alone.


India’s procurement system is anything but efficient. Too much corruption. 

anyways the budget for the MRCA is a rollover, heard it’s in a special allocation seperate from national budget


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> India’s procurement system is anything but efficient. Too much corruption.
> 
> anyways the budget for the MRCA is a rollover, heard it’s in a special allocation seperate from national budget


Just imagine President declaring 16 MRCA and everyone is excited. At the end what BAF bought is 16 more F-7. Lol. It would be a nightmare.

Anyways jokes apart. As far as I have heard the MRCA will be second hand EFTs. Not sure though.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Just imagine President declaring 16 MRCA and everyone is excited. At the end what BAF bought is 16 more F-7. Lol. It would be a nightmare.
> 
> Anyways jokes apart. As far as I have heard the MRCA will be second hand EFTs. Not sure though.


It would have happened already. Apparently they’re willing to wait for new frames after all


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> It would have happened already. Apparently they’re willing to wait for new frames after all



bal


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Another news related to BAF MRCA.

@DalalErMaNodi @Michael Corleone @Rahil Ahmed


----------



## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> bal


True, Gandus



Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 637482
> 
> 
> Another news related to BAF MRCA.


Everyone is throwing stuff to the roof and see what sticks 
J10 will most probably replace f7s but not as part of MRCA


----------



## Tom-tom

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 637482
> 
> 
> Another news related to BAF MRCA.
> 
> @DalalErMaNodi @Michael Corleone @Rahil Ahmed




How reliable is this source?


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Tom-tom said:


> How reliable is this source?


Don't know. I have seen many posts related to MRCA program in many Facebook defence pages. Don't know how true are they.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 637482
> 
> 
> Another news related to BAF MRCA.
> 
> @DalalErMaNodi @Michael Corleone @Rahil Ahmed



Hahahaha, what a load of horseshit. Absolute clusterfuck


----------



## The Ronin

*Air force to send contingent in Peacekeeping Mission*

The contingent to Central African Republic consists of armed MI-171 helicopters

Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) will send its 125 members for United Nations Peacekeeping Mission in Central African Republic (MINUSCA).

The contingent will consist of three armed version MI-171 helicopters equipped with night vision system, the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) said in a statement on Thursday.

Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, BBP, OSP, ndu, psc addressed the members of the contingent at BAF Base Bashar, it said.

The BAF chief advised peacekeepers to fulfil their duties with honesty, professionalism and sincerity and earn good reputation for the country, according to the statement.

For the first time the peacekeepers of Bangladesh will be deployed in a mission by a UN Chartered Flight of Biman Bangladesh Airlines, said the ISPR.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...ce-to-send-contingent-in-peacekeeping-mission



Tagaung said:


> try to walk, before you run.



Been doing that long before you in 210 MRO plant.








Tagaung said:


> *DONT BASH US IN YOUR FORUMS . *



Then don't come here saying nonsense about intel on invading Burma or who is more secretive or more aggressive. You are actually giving opportunity to people to bash you.

Showing photos of locally manufactured SAM or with N.Korean military officials doesn't really prove anything. SAM and ballistic missile are two different things. In that case we can also claim BOF manufactures medium range SAM.

Heck, we don't even believe our own news without credible evidence and you expect us to believe us news about ballistic missile, nuke? Your nuclear program got shut-down long ago.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I really want to find out of this article has any substance to itself, PayPal blocked my account last year and I have been hesitant to make a new one.



Be the next Ahsan Choi. 








Michael Corleone said:


> Exactly. He has been reliable about other stuff, it’s BAF’s limbo that effects defseca reputation



I think he is playing with frigate project too. Remember how many designs/models he talked about? Italian PPA OPV, French Belharra, Gowind, Russian Gorshkov, British Type 31e etc.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 635037
> 
> 
> How did he get access to a SU-30? I read somewhere he's related to SHW, is this true?
> 
> I hope there isn't any nepotism at play here.





leonblack08 said:


> Su 30 MKI...must have been some training in India.



Looks like Algerian version of MKI. It was in Russia and he passed the course with record time (40 mins probably). Our pilots also trained on F-18, 16. What politics has to do with flying Su-30?! 



Rahil Ahmed said:


> Its a shame the two countries don't have closer relationships, being 2 of the largest Muslim majority countries being separated from the rest of the Islamic world



https://ipdefenseforum.com/indonesia-and-bangladesh-strengthen-military-ties/



Rahil Ahmed said:


> Even the slightest bit of escalation might lead them to pulling the trigger and actual war.



Loose cannon?!  Are you talking about these mighty Burmese military who run away when BGB whistles or BN ship arrive?!  We don't need to escalate anything, they do that themselves and run away. Loose cannon my ***!! More like loose fart!! 








Buddhistforlife said:


> Also they run a huge drug business particularly heroine and Yaba.





Buddhistforlife said:


> Myanmar can never develop nuclear weapons. They don't have the money and technological base to make nuclear bombs.



Thank you for admitting it. 



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Arrogance...... Makes it sound as if XI and SHW are having dinner together.



What arrogance? Did he say anything wrong? With skilled pilot J-10 can deal with JF-17 as it provides higher performance than JF-17. It would be amazing if BAF can integrate SOM missile with them. 



Michael Corleone said:


> Ah shit I’m really not happy about this. Just because they wasted so much time going back and forth. I heard this a couple of days ago but wasn’t allowed to talk about this



Compared to other countries BAF managed to secure deal within 3 years. So not that bad.



Buddhistforlife said:


> Also Chengdu J10C is not a MRCA. It is an interceptor.



J-10C is a MRCA, capable of performing both air-to-air and air-to-ground role including anti-ship role. @LKJ86

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-10-multirole-fighter-air-craft-news-discussions.3218/



Al-Ansar said:


> Typical Amra Khan flip flop on display. He went from "China being punished by BD due to disappointment over Rohingya issue (because the world revolves around BD)" to "China stuck by BD like superglue, you know nothing Jon Snow...".
> 
> Take anything he says about BAF with a grain of salt.
> 
> All the rhetorics aside, J-10C is the easiest choice for BAF.



LOL i remember those whining-crying about not giving any major contract to China specially fighter jet and frigate contract. Now he is back with J-10 again and calling China friend. Should've taken screenshots of those whining  Wasn't sure about the frigate but knew BAF will end up with J-10 anyway.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I will get booted from that Facebook group soon, I can sense it.



Is your name AAJ?



tarpitz said:


> Myanmar Armed Forces is using G 120TP aircraft from Germany, AS 365 and EC 120 helicopters from France, Schiebel Camcopter S-100 from Austrian, 76 mm naval guns from Italy, Fokker 70 from Netherlands.Spare parts are also available.
> 
> France ATR is also operating a repair and maintenance facility in Myanmar since 2016 and that factory repaired all ATR aircraft from Myanmar including ATR 42 and 72 from MAF as well as those from other countries.
> 
> For the US, even if they sell weapons, we can’t afford that much.
> 
> However MAF acquired 8 Beechcraft 1900 aircrafts from US between 2015 and 2020.
> 
> Myanmar also acquired LPD from Korea. If US interfered the sale, Korea won’t sell it.



Chinese licensed version of AS 365 and others are civilian version including the ATR which was converted by third party. US didn't put embargo on whole Myanmar, just on some officials and units. EU embargo is still on though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar–United_States_relations
https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...ms-embargo-prepares-individual-sanctions.html
https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...eqzysuyNnQeSZPKH8hwBwMfYIe78Hhfjl-QiMcwqQ28EI



Michael Corleone said:


> Yes I do not support getting j10 anymore. Save some more, get the gripen with meteor



And how do you propose we maintain two western fighter such as EFT-Gripen combo? If Gripen forms backbone of BAF then it will be procured in large number.



Michael Corleone said:


> i got told in dm to know the dintinction between post by defseca and a user (in this case a mod) i talked with the mod, he says his sources are seperate from defseca and he haven't talked with defseca or SAK, i asked him to remove it. unprofessional conduct at best...



Why did SAK make that kid mod? An absolute moron, can't talk or write properly and often provide wrong infos. Group's quality will go down because of him. I believe his name is "Girls Generation" in your forum.



Michael Corleone said:


> Remember the baretta AX-103 said to have won the assault rifle competition?
> He was toying with people because many other defense related page later published the same story. It was in fact faux news...
> Something German is all I’m going to say



DefRes did something same to him about MPT-76 if i remember correctly. That group had problem with SAK and now i see two of their members have joined your group. How ridiculous!!

Anyway i heard different thing though. Maybe he toyed with me too. Didn't care about it that much anyway.



Buddhistforlife said:


> Don't know. I have seen many posts related to MRCA program in many Facebook defence pages. Don't know how true are they.



You better not talk about any defense related thing or share any info. Everything you shared and are sharing here are absolute garbage. Those youtube channels and groups you follow are completely bogus!!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Michael Corleone

Incog_nito said:


> And is BAF also looking to expand its MiG-29 fleet? Like getting some old ones from other operators


No, they’ll supplement them with other platform and then phase them out

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Buddhistforlife

The Ronin said:


> *Air force to send contingent in Peacekeeping Mission*
> 
> The contingent to Central African Republic consists of armed MI-171 helicopters
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) will send its 125 members for United Nations Peacekeeping Mission in Central African Republic (MINUSCA).
> 
> The contingent will consist of three armed version MI-171 helicopters equipped with night vision system, the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) said in a statement on Thursday.
> 
> Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, BBP, OSP, ndu, psc addressed the members of the contingent at BAF Base Bashar, it said.
> 
> The BAF chief advised peacekeepers to fulfil their duties with honesty, professionalism and sincerity and earn good reputation for the country, according to the statement.
> 
> For the first time the peacekeepers of Bangladesh will be deployed in a mission by a UN Chartered Flight of Biman Bangladesh Airlines, said the ISPR.
> 
> https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...ce-to-send-contingent-in-peacekeeping-mission
> 
> 
> 
> Been doing that long before you in 210 MRO plant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then don't come here saying nonsense about intel on invading Burma or who is more secretive or more aggressive. You are actually giving opportunity to people to bash you.
> 
> Showing photos of locally manufactured SAM or with N.Korean military officials doesn't really prove anything. SAM and ballistic missile are two different things. In that case we can also claim BOF manufactures medium range SAM.
> 
> Heck, we don't even believe our own news without credible evidence and you expect us to believe us news about ballistic missile, nuke? Your nuclear program got shut-down long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Be the next Ahsan Choi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he is playing with frigate project too. Remember how many designs/models he talked about? Italian PPA OPV, French Belharra, Gowind, Russian Gorshkov, British Type 31e etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Algerian version of MKI. It was in Russia and he passed the course with record time (40 mins probably). Our pilots also trained on F-18, 16. What politics has to do with flying Su-30?!
> 
> 
> 
> https://ipdefenseforum.com/indonesia-and-bangladesh-strengthen-military-ties/
> 
> 
> 
> Loose cannon?!  Are you talking about these mighty Burmese military who run away when BGB whistles or BN ship arrive?!  We don't need to escalate anything, they do that themselves and run away. Loose cannon my ***!! More like loose fart!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for admitting it.
> 
> 
> 
> What arrogance? Did he say anything wrong? With skilled pilot J-10 can deal with JF-17 as it provides higher performance than JF-17. It would be amazing if BAF can integrate SOM missile with them.
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to other countries BAF managed to secure deal within 3 years. So not that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> J-10C is a MRCA, capable of performing both air-to-air and air-to-ground role including anti-ship role. @LKJ86
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-10-multirole-fighter-air-craft-news-discussions.3218/
> 
> 
> 
> LOL i remember those whining-crying about not giving any major contract to China specially fighter jet and frigate contract. Now he is back with J-10 again and calling China friend. Should've taken screenshots of those whining  Wasn't sure about the frigate but knew BAF will end up with J-10 anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Is your name AAJ?
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese licensed version of AS 365 and others are civilian version including the ATR which was converted by third party. US didn't put embargo on whole Myanmar, just on some officials and units. EU embargo is still on though.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar–United_States_relations
> https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...ms-embargo-prepares-individual-sanctions.html
> https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...eqzysuyNnQeSZPKH8hwBwMfYIe78Hhfjl-QiMcwqQ28EI
> 
> 
> 
> And how do you propose we maintain two western fighter such as EFT-Gripen combo? If Gripen forms backbone of BAF then it will be procured in large number.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did SAK make that kid mod? An absolute moron, can't talk or write properly and often provide wrong infos. Group's quality will go down because of him. I believe his name is "Girls Generation" in your forum.
> 
> 
> 
> DefRes did something same to him about MPT-76 if i remember correctly. That group had problem with SAK and now i see two of their members have joined your group. How ridiculous!!
> 
> Anyway i heard different thing though. Maybe he toyed with me too. Didn't care about it that much anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> You better not talk about any defense related thing or share any info. Everything you shared and are sharing here are absolute garbage. Those youtube channels and groups you follow are completely bogus!!


I follow multiple defence sites related to BD. Also I never claimed that I believe what they posts in their blog or youtube channel. I try to post latest and updated ness regarding defence procurement. They might be wrong or right.


----------



## LKJ86

The Ronin said:


> J-10C is a MRCA, capable of performing both air-to-air and air-to-ground role including anti-ship role. @LKJ86
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-10-multirole-fighter-air-craft-news-discussions.3218/

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Buddhistforlife

The Ronin said:


> *Air force to send contingent in Peacekeeping Mission*
> 
> The contingent to Central African Republic consists of armed MI-171 helicopters
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) will send its 125 members for United Nations Peacekeeping Mission in Central African Republic (MINUSCA).
> 
> The contingent will consist of three armed version MI-171 helicopters equipped with night vision system, the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) said in a statement on Thursday.
> 
> Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, BBP, OSP, ndu, psc addressed the members of the contingent at BAF Base Bashar, it said.
> 
> The BAF chief advised peacekeepers to fulfil their duties with honesty, professionalism and sincerity and earn good reputation for the country, according to the statement.
> 
> For the first time the peacekeepers of Bangladesh will be deployed in a mission by a UN Chartered Flight of Biman Bangladesh Airlines, said the ISPR.
> 
> https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...ce-to-send-contingent-in-peacekeeping-mission
> 
> 
> 
> Been doing that long before you in 210 MRO plant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then don't come here saying nonsense about intel on invading Burma or who is more secretive or more aggressive. You are actually giving opportunity to people to bash you.
> 
> Showing photos of locally manufactured SAM or with N.Korean military officials doesn't really prove anything. SAM and ballistic missile are two different things. In that case we can also claim BOF manufactures medium range SAM.
> 
> Heck, we don't even believe our own news without credible evidence and you expect us to believe us news about ballistic missile, nuke? Your nuclear program got shut-down long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Be the next Ahsan Choi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he is playing with frigate project too. Remember how many designs/models he talked about? Italian PPA OPV, French Belharra, Gowind, Russian Gorshkov, British Type 31e etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Algerian version of MKI. It was in Russia and he passed the course with record time (40 mins probably). Our pilots also trained on F-18, 16. What politics has to do with flying Su-30?!
> 
> 
> 
> https://ipdefenseforum.com/indonesia-and-bangladesh-strengthen-military-ties/
> 
> 
> 
> Loose cannon?!  Are you talking about these mighty Burmese military who run away when BGB whistles or BN ship arrive?!  We don't need to escalate anything, they do that themselves and run away. Loose cannon my ***!! More like loose fart!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for admitting it.
> 
> 
> 
> What arrogance? Did he say anything wrong? With skilled pilot J-10 can deal with JF-17 as it provides higher performance than JF-17. It would be amazing if BAF can integrate SOM missile with them.
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to other countries BAF managed to secure deal within 3 years. So not that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> J-10C is a MRCA, capable of performing both air-to-air and air-to-ground role including anti-ship role. @LKJ86
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-10-multirole-fighter-air-craft-news-discussions.3218/
> 
> 
> 
> LOL i remember those whining-crying about not giving any major contract to China specially fighter jet and frigate contract. Now he is back with J-10 again and calling China friend. Should've taken screenshots of those whining  Wasn't sure about the frigate but knew BAF will end up with J-10 anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Is your name AAJ?
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese licensed version of AS 365 and others are civilian version including the ATR which was converted by third party. US didn't put embargo on whole Myanmar, just on some officials and units. EU embargo is still on though.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar–United_States_relations
> https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...ms-embargo-prepares-individual-sanctions.html
> https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...eqzysuyNnQeSZPKH8hwBwMfYIe78Hhfjl-QiMcwqQ28EI
> 
> 
> 
> And how do you propose we maintain two western fighter such as EFT-Gripen combo? If Gripen forms backbone of BAF then it will be procured in large number.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did SAK make that kid mod? An absolute moron, can't talk or write properly and often provide wrong infos. Group's quality will go down because of him. I believe his name is "Girls Generation" in your forum.
> 
> 
> 
> DefRes did something same to him about MPT-76 if i remember correctly. That group had problem with SAK and now i see two of their members have joined your group. How ridiculous!!
> 
> Anyway i heard different thing though. Maybe he toyed with me too. Didn't care about it that much anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> You better not talk about any defense related thing or share any info. Everything you shared and are sharing here are absolute garbage. Those youtube channels and groups you follow are completely bogus!!


↑
*Myanmar can never develop nuclear weapons. They don't have the money and technological base to make nuclear bombs.
Thank you for admitting it.* 

What do you mean by thanks for admitting it? I have never said that the Tatmadaw can make nukes. 

Some weeks ago you were arguing with me when I told that Burma can make Ballistic missiles. Tbh, when I told Ballistic missiles, I referred to conventional BMs not nuclear BMs as you thought before. Yes Burma can always make conventional BMs. So?



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 637545


I think it will be Chengdu J-10C.



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 637545


I don't think BAF will ever explore European aircrafts. They will buy Chinese products in the end.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> ↑
> *Myanmar can never develop nuclear weapons. They don't have the money and technological base to make nuclear bombs.
> Thank you for admitting it.*
> 
> What do you mean by thanks for admitting it? I have never said that the Tatmadaw can make nukes.
> 
> Some weeks ago you were arguing with me when I told that Burma can make Ballistic missiles. Tbh, when I told Ballistic missiles, I referred to conventional BMs not nuclear BMs as you thought before. Yes Burma can always make conventional BMs. So?
> 
> 
> I think it will be Chengdu J-10C.


Conventional BM isn’t as easy to make as you make it out to be. Even if they’re making any, definitely not their own design


----------



## LKJ86

Buddhistforlife said:


> I don't think BAF will ever explore European aircrafts. They will buy Chinese products in the end.


No idea.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Idk if I replied to these before so here it goes. 


Tagaung said:


> that is why we started working on PT-6.
> 
> I dont want to sidetracked the BAF discussion any more.
> 
> So please
> *DONT BASH US IN YOUR FORUMS . *
> 
> if you do, we will be responding and sidetracking your BAF discussion. we dont want to do that.


Stop with stupid threats, this is Bangladesh forum, we want to talk about Bangladesh, not Burma. Go to your forum for that. 


The Ronin said:


> think he is playing with frigate project too. Remember how many designs/models he talked about? Italian PPA OPV, French Belharra, Gowind, Russian Gorshkov, British Type 31e etc.


Truth be told, no reliable news exist on frigate project. I reckon it will be Chinese after all.



The Ronin said:


> And how do you propose we maintain two western fighter such as EFT-Gripen combo? If Gripen forms backbone of BAF then it will be procured in large number.


I don’t have answers to that but given none of the future platforms and their maintenance crew exist atm, we would have to spend tons of dough 



The Ronin said:


> Why did SAK make that kid mod? An absolute moron, can't talk or write properly and often provide wrong infos. Group's quality will go down because of him. I believe his name is "Girls Generation" in your forum.


I really don’t know. Personally there were better members who could have been appointed that duty. The recent posts are making me question stepping down in that Facebook group 



The Ronin said:


> DefRes did something same to him about MPT-76 if i remember correctly. That group had problem with SAK and now i see two of their members have joined your group. How ridiculous!!
> 
> Anyway i heard different thing though. Maybe he toyed with me too. Didn't care about it that much anyway.


They were rivals and now they’re sort of allies!? Who cares


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> I really don’t know. Personally there were better members who could have been appointed that duty. The recent posts are making me question stepping down in that Facebook group




Are you talking about that rendi'r chele Hridoy?

Fucktard has attitude issues, wanna knock his teeth out.


----------



## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> *Air force to send contingent in Peacekeeping Mission*
> 
> The contingent to Central African Republic consists of armed MI-171 helicopters
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) will send its 125 members for United Nations Peacekeeping Mission in Central African Republic (MINUSCA).
> 
> The contingent will consist of three armed version MI-171 helicopters equipped with night vision system, the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) said in a statement on Thursday.
> 
> Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, BBP, OSP, ndu, psc addressed the members of the contingent at BAF Base Bashar, it said.
> 
> The BAF chief advised peacekeepers to fulfil their duties with honesty, professionalism and sincerity and earn good reputation for the country, according to the statement.
> 
> For the first time the peacekeepers of Bangladesh will be deployed in a mission by a UN Chartered Flight of Biman Bangladesh Airlines, said the ISPR.
> 
> https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...ce-to-send-contingent-in-peacekeeping-mission
> 
> 
> 
> Been doing that long before you in 210 MRO plant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then don't come here saying nonsense about intel on invading Burma or who is more secretive or more aggressive. You are actually giving opportunity to people to bash you.
> 
> Showing photos of locally manufactured SAM or with N.Korean military officials doesn't really prove anything. SAM and ballistic missile are two different things. In that case we can also claim BOF manufactures medium range SAM.
> 
> Heck, we don't even believe our own news without credible evidence and you expect us to believe us news about ballistic missile, nuke? Your nuclear program got shut-down long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Be the next Ahsan Choi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he is playing with frigate project too. Remember how many designs/models he talked about? Italian PPA OPV, French Belharra, Gowind, Russian Gorshkov, British Type 31e etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Algerian version of MKI. It was in Russia and he passed the course with record time (40 mins probably). Our pilots also trained on F-18, 16. What politics has to do with flying Su-30?!
> 
> 
> 
> https://ipdefenseforum.com/indonesia-and-bangladesh-strengthen-military-ties/
> 
> 
> 
> Loose cannon?!  Are you talking about these mighty Burmese military who run away when BGB whistles or BN ship arrive?!  We don't need to escalate anything, they do that themselves and run away. Loose cannon my ***!! More like loose fart!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for admitting it.
> 
> 
> 
> What arrogance? Did he say anything wrong? With skilled pilot J-10 can deal with JF-17 as it provides higher performance than JF-17. It would be amazing if BAF can integrate SOM missile with them.
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to other countries BAF managed to secure deal within 3 years. So not that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> J-10C is a MRCA, capable of performing both air-to-air and air-to-ground role including anti-ship role. @LKJ86
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chengdu-j-10-multirole-fighter-air-craft-news-discussions.3218/
> 
> 
> 
> LOL i remember those whining-crying about not giving any major contract to China specially fighter jet and frigate contract. Now he is back with J-10 again and calling China friend. Should've taken screenshots of those whining  Wasn't sure about the frigate but knew BAF will end up with J-10 anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Is your name AAJ?
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese licensed version of AS 365 and others are civilian version including the ATR which was converted by third party. US didn't put embargo on whole Myanmar, just on some officials and units. EU embargo is still on though.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar–United_States_relations
> https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...ms-embargo-prepares-individual-sanctions.html
> https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burm...eqzysuyNnQeSZPKH8hwBwMfYIe78Hhfjl-QiMcwqQ28EI
> 
> 
> 
> And how do you propose we maintain two western fighter such as EFT-Gripen combo? If Gripen forms backbone of BAF then it will be procured in large number.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did SAK make that kid mod? An absolute moron, can't talk or write properly and often provide wrong infos. Group's quality will go down because of him. I believe his name is "Girls Generation" in your forum.
> 
> 
> 
> DefRes did something same to him about MPT-76 if i remember correctly. That group had problem with SAK and now i see two of their members have joined your group. How ridiculous!!
> 
> Anyway i heard different thing though. Maybe he toyed with me too. Didn't care about it that much anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> You better not talk about any defense related thing or share any info. Everything you shared and are sharing here are absolute garbage. Those youtube channels and groups you follow are completely bogus!!


@The Ronin bro you on adderall? You're on a reply binge.


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Conventional BM isn’t as easy to make as you make it out to be. Even if they’re making any, definitely not their own design


Easy as in conventional MRBMs does not put a strain on the economy or neither it requires sophisticated technological expertise. 

By easy I did not mean DIY type materials you can make at home lol.


----------



## Destranator

Buddhistforlife said:


> Easy as in conventional MRBMs does not put a strain on the economy or neither it requires sophisticated technological expertise.
> 
> By easy I did not mean DIY type materials you can make at home lol.


Whaa....bro, it's literally rocket science, coupled with metallurgy and navigation systems. Suggest reading up more on BMs.

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## Buddhistforlife

Al-Ansar said:


> Whaa....bro, it's literally rocket science, coupled with metallurgy and navigation systems. Suggest reading up more on BMs.


Rocket science for common people like you and me. Look ICBMs, IRBMs and Nuclear warheads are difficult and not everyone can make them. But SRBMs, Tactical BMs and MRBMs are not that difficult or is costly.

Even Bangladesh can make MRBMs. Its not that tough. I believe Bangladesh armed forces will be looking for tactical conventional ballistic missile in the future.

Moreover if someone can provide you with blueprints of conventional BMs, then it's more easier. And MRBMs are not that costly.


----------



## The Ronin

Buddhistforlife said:


> I follow multiple defence sites related to BD. Also I never claimed that I believe what they posts in their blog or youtube channel. I try to post latest and updated ness regarding defence procurement. They might be wrong or right.



All of these Youtube channels, Facebook groups are 100% trashes. Whether you believe it or not don't post those "latest-updated' news without verification which are actually copy-paste from DefSeca or DTB. We don't need these here really. This is an int'l forum, people already follow lot better stuff than those junkie FB groups.

And try using writing tools properly please. You don't have to copy-paste what i said to make it bold. Just select and quote the thing.



Michael Corleone said:


> They were rivals and now they’re sort of allies!? Who cares



Oh of course!! Who cares!! We who fell in crossfire, will just sit in the corner and pretend nothing ever happened.



Al-Ansar said:


> @The Ronin bro you on adderall? You're on a reply binge.



Meh happens when you have multiple new pages to read and threads to reply.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Well if anything happens, we will know in the next 10-15 days. Odds are it probably being used Typhoons from the UK, or J10's. Any news about what happened to the Russian Birds? From what i could tell the discussions went pretty far

Also does anyone know how credible the following source is?: https://bdnewsnet.com/bangladesh/bd...-get-eurofighter-typhoon-sukhoi-su-30-mig-35/


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Well if anything happens, we will know in the next 10-15 days. Odds are it probably being used Typhoons from the UK, or J10's. Any news about what happened to the Russian Birds? From what i could tell the discussions went pretty far
> 
> Also does anyone know how credible the following source is?: https://bdnewsnet.com/bangladesh/bd...-get-eurofighter-typhoon-sukhoi-su-30-mig-35/


No Russian weapons. Russia backstabbed BD when it comes to Rohingya crisis so Russian weapons are out of question. 

Also Myanmar is now a monopoly customer of Russia. Buying any MRCA from Russia is dangerous as they might provide deterrent to Myanmar.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> No Russian weapons. Russia backstabbed BD when it comes to Rohingya crisis so Russian weapons are out of question.
> 
> Also Myanmar is now a monopoly customer of Russia. Buying any MRCA from Russia is dangerous as they might provide deterrent to Myanmar.


I doubt that Russia is more invested in Myanmar than China is if Push comes to Shove bother countries will be supplied with weapons.


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> I doubt that Russia is more invested in Myanmar than China is if Push comes to Shove bother countries will be supplied with weapons.


China, Russia is one block. Myanmar is a country of the Russia-China axis just like North Korea and Iran. That's why Russia and China supported Myanmar when they committed genocide against Rohingya. 

Also Europe and USA sanctioned Myanmar because of their Russia-China ties.


----------



## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> China, Russia is one block. Myanmar is a country of the Russia-China axis just like North Korea and Iran. That's why Russia and China supported Myanmar when they committed genocide against Rohingya.
> 
> Also Europe and USA sanctioned Myanmar because of their Russia-China ties.


But isn't Bangladesh also aligned with Russia and China?


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> But isn't Bangladesh also aligned with Russia and China?


No. Bangladesh is neutral. Bangladesh gets benefit from both Western powers and China.


----------



## MINN

Michael Corleone said:


> Idk if I replied to these before so here it goes.
> 
> Stop with stupid threats, this is Bangladesh forum, we want to talk about Bangladesh, not Burma. Go to your forum for that.


Then stop talking about us. This is your country forum so talk about your country why keep mention Myanmar. We really don't care if you want to measure dick size with India but don't mention us because if you do we will measure back. Also, Buddhistforlife is saying his opinion but what he says is not the opinion of the Myanmar members. So stop using his words as ours.



Al-Ansar said:


> Whaa....bro, it's literally rocket science, coupled with metallurgy and navigation systems. Suggest reading up more on BMs.


If you are talking about rocket science then we have several people who have a degree in rocket science. They went to Chinese and Russian Aerospace engineering universities.

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## Buddhistforlife

MINN said:


> Then stop talking about us. This is your country forum so talk about your country why keep mention Myanmar. We really don't care if you want to measure dick size with India but don't mention us because if you do we will measure back. Also, Buddhistforlife is saying his opinion but what he says is not the opinion of the Myanmar members. So stop using his words as ours.
> 
> 
> If you are talking about rocket science then we have several people who have a degree in rocket science. They went to Chinese and Russian Aerospace engineering universities.


Guys I think I already opened a thread for discussing possible missile related things of Myanmar. Let's keep this thread for BAF

@MINN @Michael Corleone



Al-Ansar said:


> Whaa....bro, it's literally rocket science, coupled with metallurgy and navigation systems. Suggest reading up more on BMs.


There is a separate thread for this.

In 2000s, USA rejected our proposal to buy F-16. I think if we could have somehow bought F-16s back then, BAF would not be as lacky as it is now.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> Be the next Ahsan Choi.



Who even is that ?



The Ronin said:


> What politics has to do with flying Su-30?!



Nothing at all, that's not what I meant. I just found it interesting that the Air Force chief is related to the Prime Minister.



The Ronin said:


> Is your name AAJ?



Who is AAJ?

My dummy account in the group is called "Ecstatic Crouton"



The Ronin said:


> Why did SAK make that kid mod? An absolute moron, can't talk or write properly and often provide wrong infos. Group's quality will go down because of him. I believe his name is "Girls Generation" in your forum.



I hate that kid, thinks too much of himself. English thik mote bolte parena abar bhab chodaiy.

I have called him out a several times for bullying other members with less knowledge of defence affairs, He mocks people often with snarky comments.
He's also an Indian bootlicker.

Are you sure he's "girls generation", I think there is a user here on PDF who is girls generation and its not Hridoy.

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Who even is that ?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing at all, that's not what I meant. I just found it interesting that the Air Force chief is related to the Prime Minister.
> 
> 
> 
> Who is AAJ?
> 
> My dummy account in the group is called "Ecstatic Crouton"
> 
> 
> 
> I hate that kid, thinks too much of himself. English thik mote bolte parena abar bhab chodaiy.
> 
> I have called him out a several times for bullying other members with less knowledge of defence affairs, He mocks people often with snarky comments.
> He's also an Indian bootlicker.
> 
> Are you sure he's "girls generation", I think there is a user here on PDF who is girls generation and its not Hridoy.



Haha I like that other forum/group.

It has potential.

If only they would make the font size bigger.

Also, what inspired the name ecstatic crouton?


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> Also, what inspired the name ecstatic crouton?



Why are people so intrigued by my Usernames and Profile Pictures, Lmao.

The other day someone was asking who the "Nodi" in my username is.

Next query was if the man in the Photo was "Dalal er Baba".

Now coming to your rather inquisitive query......

I like creamy mushroom soup with croutons for breakfast. Whenever I CMS for breakfast, I tend to have a good day or atleast a good start anyway.
You could say I feel ecstatic when I get to enjoy warm and filling mushroom soup with croutons that haven't become soggy.

Yeah I know, the reason behind the names are not as interesting as the names themselves.

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Why are people so intrigued by my Usernames and Profile Pictures, Lmao.
> 
> The other day someone was asking who the "Nodi" in my username is.
> 
> Next query was if the man in the Photo was "Dalal er Baba".
> 
> Now coming to your question......
> 
> I like creamy mushroom soup with croutons for breakfast. Whenever I CMS for breakfast, I tend to have a good day or atleast a good start anyway.
> You could say I feel ecstatic when I get to enjoy warm and filling mushroom soup with croutons that haven't become soggy.
> 
> Yeah I know, the reason behind the names are not as interesting as the names themselves.



No actually that was a great explanation and I can understand.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> No actually that was a great explanation and I can understand.



Interesting profile picture btw, I didn't expect a profile picture like that on a supposedly serious platform like PDF.


----------



## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Interesting profile picture btw, I didn't expect a profile picture like that on a supposedly serious platform like PDF.



We're all just kids here, some of us a little older than others.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> We're all just kids here, some of us a little older than others.



We never really stop being children, no matter what we'd like to believe about ourselves.

We just have various degrees of maturity; which is the ability to overpower our "childish" impulses.

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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Why are people so intrigued by my Usernames and Profile Pictures, Lmao.
> 
> The other day someone was asking who the "Nodi" in my username is.
> 
> Next query was if the man in the Photo was "Dalal er Baba".
> 
> Now coming to your rather inquisitive query......
> 
> I like creamy mushroom soup with croutons for breakfast. Whenever I CMS for breakfast, I tend to have a good day or atleast a good start anyway.
> You could say I feel ecstatic when I get to enjoy warm and filling mushroom soup with croutons that haven't become soggy.
> 
> Yeah I know, the reason behind the names are not as interesting as the names themselves.


So your name is Nodi and you are mother of a Dalal. Your name says that.


----------



## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We never really stop being children, no matter what we'd like to believe about ourselves.
> 
> We just have various degrees of maturity; which is the ability to overpower our "childish" impulses.



BTW try hot sauce with the CMS.







Specifically this.






This camo is almost as hot as that sauce.

Maybe the upgraded Mig-29 can be painted in something similar.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> So your name is Nodi and you are mother of a Dalal. Your name says that.



Well, I must say that is quite the interpretation. 

But its wrong, Here's a word for word translation of my name. The bits with the - sign are ommited.

Dalal + Er + Maa - Oyyilde - ugge + Nodi

Dalal's + + Mother - omitted - omitted + @#&%$

In an expanded form you would say, Dalal oll'er maa to nodi ei ode i.e. The mother of dalals are always @#&%$

This has no grammatical sense, Chattagaiya has no real grammar, The sentence above is actually incorrect and nobody would actually say it this way.

Proper way to say would be :

Zeduehh dalal ase, etarar baiggun er ma ol nodi ar kh##ki ode.

It's very hard to write Chittagonian with latin script.



Avicenna said:


> BTW try hot sauce with the CMS.
> 
> View attachment 637785
> 
> 
> View attachment 637786
> 
> 
> This camo is almost as hot as that sauce.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Are you talking about that rendi'r chele Hridoy?
> 
> Fucktard has attitude issues, wanna knock his teeth out.


Lmao



Buddhistforlife said:


> Easy as in conventional MRBMs does not put a strain on the economy or neither it requires sophisticated technological expertise.
> 
> By easy I did not mean DIY type materials you can make at home lol.


I’m not going to argue with you who know very little about science, especially Basic chemistry and physics



MINN said:


> Then stop talking about us. This is your country forum so talk about your country why keep mention Myanmar. We really don't care if you want to measure dick size with India but don't mention us because if you do we will measure back. Also, Buddhistforlife is saying his opinion but what he says is not the opinion of the Myanmar members. So stop using his words as ours.
> 
> 
> If you are talking about rocket science then we have several people who have a degree in rocket science. They went to Chinese and Russian Aerospace engineering universities.


We are least bit interested in talking about you people. But when we have to make your problem ours and make us feed and shelter your people, then expect nothing less


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Lmao
> 
> 
> I’m not going to argue with you who know very little about science, especially Basic chemistry and physics
> 
> 
> We are least bit interested in talking about you people. But when we have to make your problem ours and make us feed and shelter your people, then expect nothing less


*I’m not going to argue with you who know very little about science, especially Basic chemistry and physics*

I'm not interested in talking physics and chemistry with you. 

Listen, first of all Ballistic missile technology is not any new age discovery and you don't need huge research on Ballistic missiles. One can gain expertise in learning its technical know how from a third party. 

I don't think you even know that Iran and Pakistan learned missile technology from North Korea. Iran's Shahab 3 and Pakistan's Shaheen missiles are based on North Korea's Hwasong 7. Pakistan and Iran gained expertise from DPRK and made their own missile. 

If you have the blueprint, you just need the materials to build a Ballistic missile. 

Short ranged ballistic missiles are already produced by a number of countries. Even Bangladesh can make Ballistic missiles by gaining expertise. Like I said there it's not like you have to spend time and money on research.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> *I’m not going to argue with you who know very little about science, especially Basic chemistry and physics*
> 
> I'm not interested in talking physics and chemistry with you.
> 
> Listen, first of all Ballistic missile technology is not any new age discovery and you don't need huge research on Ballistic missiles. One can gain expertise in learning its technical know how from a third party.
> 
> I don't think you even know that Iran and Pakistan learned missile technology from North Korea. Iran's Shahab 3 and Pakistan's Shaheen missiles are based on North Korea's Hwasong 7. Pakistan and Iran gained expertise from DPRK and made their own missile.
> 
> If you have the blueprint, you just need the materials to build a Ballistic missile.
> 
> Short ranged ballistic missiles are already produced by a number of countries. Even Bangladesh can make Ballistic missiles by gaining expertise. Like I said there it's not like you have to spend time and money on research.


Please, the information isn’t open source that you can just refer to design blueprints on the internet and go about making one, every country that makes any have to go through research in everything starting from propulsion and fuel and navigation and gyros all the way to the warhead.... it’s not easy as you think it is, yet you’re being stubborn after everyone is disagreeing with you. That’s all I’ve to say

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Please, the information isn’t open source that you can just refer to design blueprints on the internet and go about making one, every country that makes any have to go through research in everything starting from propulsion and fuel and navigation and gyros all the way to the warhead.... it’s not easy as you think it is, yet you’re being stubborn after everyone is disagreeing with you. That’s all I’ve to say



It's easy bro!

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Please, the information isn’t open source that you can just refer to design blueprints on the internet and go about making one, every country that makes any have to go through research in everything starting from propulsion and fuel and navigation and gyros all the way to the warhead.... it’s not easy as you think it is, yet you’re being stubborn after everyone is disagreeing with you. That’s all I’ve to say


No one is disagreeing. See Avicenna's post above.

My god??? When did I say this information is open source? Transfer of Ballistic missile technology is a G2G deal, and only a handful of military experts would know that. Do you think Ballistic missiles are remote controlled toys that can be openly sold in the market? Why would you let Ballistic missile technology to be open to the public?

The transfer of technology takes place between government and countless number of countries produced Ballistic missiles through TOT.


----------



## Destranator

Buddhistforlife said:


> No one is disagreeing. See Avicenna's post above.
> 
> My god??? When did I say this information is open source? Transfer of Ballistic missile technology is a G2G deal, and only a handful of military experts would know that. Do you think Ballistic missiles are remote controlled toys that can be openly sold in the market? Why would you let Ballistic missile technology to be open to the public?
> 
> The transfer of technology takes place between government and countless number of countries produced Ballistic missiles through TOT.


You do know that there is a ban on transferring missile technology exceeding 300 km in range?
Bangladesh may be able to obtain some technical know how from friendly countries secretly but we would still need to design from scratch. It is not easy to develop accurate and fully functional Systems for a country which hardly does any meaningful scientific research. 
Being densely populated, Bangladesh cannot afford dysfunctional show pieces.

If we start now, we just might have something operational by 2040.

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## Buddhistforlife

How much truth is behind this claim?

@Al-Ansar @Michael Corleone @Avicenna @Ronin @DalalErMaNodi


----------



## Avicenna

Buddhistforlife said:


> No one is disagreeing. See Avicenna's post above.
> 
> My god??? When did I say this information is open source? Transfer of Ballistic missile technology is a G2G deal, and only a handful of military experts would know that. Do you think Ballistic missiles are remote controlled toys that can be openly sold in the market? Why would you let Ballistic missile technology to be open to the public?
> 
> The transfer of technology takes place between government and countless number of countries produced Ballistic missiles through TOT.



I was kidding about it being easy.

The pics I posted are of model rocket kits for kids (and some adults)

Of course its not easy to develop ballistic missiles.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> It's easy bro!
> 
> View attachment 637838
> 
> View attachment 637839
> 
> 
> View attachment 637840


Lmao

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## Destranator

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 637873
> 
> 
> How much truth is behind this claim?
> 
> @Al-Ansar @Michael Corleone @Avicenna @Ronin @DalalErMaNodi


Look, since the president himself announced procurement of 16 fighter jets, these will eventually come regardless of what anyone says.

My advice to fellow Bangladeshis is to take anything they read on Bangladeshi defences pages/groups/sites with a grain of salt.

Check out this old post of mine compiling Amar Khan's announcements on fighters and make up your own mind:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-433#post-11518809



Al-Ansar said:


> The saga of Amra Khan...
> 
> View attachment 563447
> View attachment 563448
> View attachment 563449
> View attachment 563450
> View attachment 563451
> View attachment 563452
> View attachment 563453
> View attachment 563454
> View attachment 563455
> View attachment 563456
> View attachment 563457



"They (the Chinese) are fast tracking the production (of J-10s) to make BAF the launch customer...." This was posted in 2018. 
Poor CAC must have J-10s sitting idle for almost two years now. Hilarious.

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## Incog_nito

Do you think Burma will acquire more MiG-29s and upgrade them.


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## Buddhistforlife

Incog_nito said:


> Do you think Burma will acquire more MiG-29s and upgrade them.


Please ask this question in Myanmar defence forum.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Al-Ansar said:


> Look, since the president himself announced procurement of 16 fighter jets, these will eventually come regardless of what anyone says.
> 
> My advice to fellow Bangladeshis is to take anything they read on Bangladeshi defences pages/groups/sites with a grain of salt.
> 
> Check out this old post of mine compiling Amar Khan's announcements on fighters and make up your own mind:
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-433#post-11518809
> 
> 
> 
> "They (the Chinese) are fast tracking the production (of J-10s) to make BAF the launch customer...." This was posted in 2018.
> Poor CAC must have J-10s sitting idle for almost two years now. Hilarious.


The cost of maintaining a fleet with J-10C, Mig-35, Su-30, and Eurofighter would exceed our defense budget for like 3 years


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## Buddhistforlife

Rahil Ahmed said:


> The cost of maintaining a fleet with J-10C, Mig-35, Su-30, and Eurofighter would exceed our defense budget for like 3 years


Buying Mig-35 is unnecessary. Its a modified version of Mig-29. Su-30 is a good aircraft but I doubt BAF would buy any Russian stuff.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Buddhistforlife said:


> Buying Mig-35 is unnecessary. Its a modified version of Mig-29. Su-30 is a good aircraft but I doubt BAF would buy any Russian stuff.


I honestly think that with Russian plane we have a good chance at significant ToT. Especially considering that Mig isn't doing to great right now and they need someone to bail them out


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## LKJ86

Al-Ansar said:


> "They (the Chinese) are fast tracking the production (of J-10s) to make BAF the launch customer...." This was posted in 2018.
> Poor CAC must have J-10s sitting idle for almost two years now. Hilarious.


J-10s in CAC:

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## DalalErMaNodi

LKJ86 said:


> J-10s in CAC:
> View attachment 638115



Who are those for? PLAAF?


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## Incog_nito

Is BAF looking for new aircrafts from EU and USA too?


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## Buddhistforlife

Incog_nito said:


> Is BAF looking for new aircrafts from EU and USA too?


Till now we heard J-10c, EFT, Gripen from different sources. Can't tell which one will BAF end up buying.

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## The Ronin

Fourth C-130J Super (ex ZH887) Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force preparing for BAF livery.

© Alexey Trailspotter
















On 11th June 2019 H.E. Ambassador Mr. Milan Hovorka and Mr. A S M Mohiuddin Monem, Honorary Consul had a curtsy call on with Chief of Air Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, Bangladesh Air Force in his office, Dhaka on to discuss how to enhance the aviation footprint in Bangladesh with the mutually advantageous cooperation between the two countries.

https://czechrepublicbd.com/news-event-posts/curtsy-call-on-with-air-chief/










__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1002619820155891









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1003430520074821

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Fourth C-130J Super (ex ZH887) Hercules of Bangladesh Air Force preparing for BAF livery.
> 
> © Alexey Trailspotter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11th June 2019 H.E. Ambassador Mr. Milan Hovorka and Mr. A S M Mohiuddin Monem, Honorary Consul had a curtsy call on with Chief of Air Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat, Bangladesh Air Force in his office, Dhaka on to discuss how to enhance the aviation footprint in Bangladesh with the mutually advantageous cooperation between the two countries.
> 
> https://czechrepublicbd.com/news-event-posts/curtsy-call-on-with-air-chief/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1002619820155891
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1003430520074821


The Czech news makes me think that l39 NG will be the intermediate jet trainer Bangladesh will make in bd with tot and call it in house manufacturing

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## Rahil Ahmed

Michael Corleone said:


> The Czech news makes me think that l39 NG will be the intermediate jet trainer Bangladesh will make in bd with tot and call it in house manufacturing


Does BD have any other ties to the Czech Republic or Aero?


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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> The Czech news makes me think that l39 NG will be the intermediate jet trainer Bangladesh will make in bd with tot and call it in house manufacturing



Would be nice but its kind of redundant with K-8W.

But I seem to have remember reading that BAF didn't like K-8W all that much but pursued it as other options would have taken longer to put into service. (assuming they were referring to L-39NG)

That being said, would LOVE for Bangladesh to make L-39NG in country.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Would be nice but its kind of redundant with K-8W.
> 
> But I seem to have remember reading that BAF didn't like K-8W all that much but pursued it as other options would have taken longer to put into service. (assuming they were referring to L-39NG)
> 
> That being said, would LOVE for Bangladesh to make L-39NG in country.


Yep k8 was a disappointment and not a top choice but there was no good alternatives



Rahil Ahmed said:


> Does BD have any other ties to the Czech Republic or Aero?


Apart from purchase of l39 albatross and some radars and jammers, not much. From what I read today, they want to cooperate with Bangladesh in manufacture of aero products and offered cooperation in l39 NG

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Apart from purchase of l39 albatross and some radars and jammers, not much. From what I read today, they want to cooperate with Bangladesh in manufacture of aero products and offered cooperation in l39 NG



We also used the LET L-410 turboprops back in the nineties for our private airlines operating from Tejgaon and now we use them for the Air force.






Czechia (then known as Czechoslovakia) cooperation with Pakistan/Bangladesh goes back to 1960's in that we utilized their Skoda-provided electricity generation powerplants in Bangladesh.

Other than Russia, Ukraine and to some extent Poland, Czechs were (as reluctant members of Warsaw pact) the only country in that pact boasting an advanced aerospace industry. These four countries in Eastern Europe also boasted a long long tradition of aerospace excellence dating back before the 1st world war.

I agree with @Michael Corleone that cooperation with Czech industry will be good for us, most of their powerplants in aircraft are now also Western origin (GE turboprops etc.) and therefore easier to certify.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> We also used the LET L-410 turboprops back in the nineties for our private airlines operating from Tejgaon and now we use them for the Air force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Czechia (then known as Czechoslovakia) cooperation with Pakistan/Bangladesh goes back to 1960's in that we utilized their Skoda-provided electricity generation powerplants in Bangladesh.
> 
> Other than Russia, Ukraine and to some extent Poland, Czechs were (as reluctant members of Warsaw pact) the only country in that pact boasting and advanced aerospace industry. These four countries in Eastern Europe also boasted a long long tradition of aerospace excellence dating back before the 1st world war.
> 
> I agree with @Michael Corleone that cooperation with Czech industry will be good for us, most of their powerplants in aircraft are now also Western origin (GE turboprops etc.) and therefore easier to certify.


They also had a decent tank building history, germans basically used their tanks to push into poland, France etc... they even made some during the Cold War, although not their own designs

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## Rahil Ahmed

Well odds are BAF are gonna waste massive amounts of money in order to build like 5 K-8's that wont even get off the ground


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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> They also had a decent tank building history, germans basically used their tanks to push into poland, France etc... they even made some during the Cold War, although not their own designs



Yup. The very capable (for its day) Panzer 38T (designated T for Tschechoslowakei, which is the German spelling for this country) and the less successful earlier version, Panzer 35T as well. Germans took over the Czechoslovakian factory that was producing these tanks and kept on making them. 

Even after the PzKpFw 38T's got obsolete after a few years (when the Russians and British started fielding better tanks), Germans used the hulls to produce anti-tank self-propelled guns and anti-aircraft platforms based on the Panzer 38T hulls. Sorry for the off topic posting but this just goes to show their design tradition which was superior to everyone else except the Germans and large powers at that time.

*Panzer 38T*





_Panzerjäger 38T (commonly known with nickname _*Marder III*) Open Top Tank Destroyer w/75mm PAK 40 German gun





Jagdpanzer 38 (Sd.Kfz. 138/2 or commonly known as* 'Hetzer'*), was a German light tank destroyer based on a modified Czechoslovakian Panzer 38(t) chassis.














Flakpanzer 38T anti aircraft gun platform

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## The Ronin

First batch of F-7MBs under construction at Chengdu, China in 1988.

PC- DTB























DalalErMaNodi said:


> Who even is that ?



A senior member who had access to BD Military articles. Never mind.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Are you sure he's "girls generation", I think there is a user here on PDF who is girls generation and its not Hridoy.



Exactly same way of talking, same attitude, grammatical error, both are mods and provide wrong infos.

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> First batch of F-7MBs under construction at Chengdu, China in 1988.
> 
> PC- DTB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A senior member who had access to BD Military articles. Never mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly same way of talking, same attitude, grammatical error, both are mods and provide wrong infos.



No, I think the user on here, Atlas is girls generation.

I could be wrong, just working on a hunch here.


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## Avicenna

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 637873
> 
> 
> How much truth is behind this claim?
> 
> @Al-Ansar @Michael Corleone @Avicenna @Ronin @DalalErMaNodi



I would like to hope that it is.

But there have been so many claims that it's difficult to believe at this point.


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## The Ronin

Buddhistforlife said:


> How much truth is behind this claim?





Avicenna said:


> I would like to hope that it is.
> 
> But there have been so many claims that it's difficult to believe at this point.



Don't know about the timeline but BAF has plan to get AEW&C. This plan was published in MHD 2017 i believe.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> I would like to hope that it is.
> 
> But there have been so many claims that it's difficult to believe at this point.


Talk of AE&WC is putting cart before the horse. BAF needs to be shamed into procuring a few dozens of fighter jets.
It's a shame that that the general BD population is apathetic to defence and strategic affairs allowing BAF bludgers to be complacent.


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## Incog_nito

Buddhistforlife said:


> Till now we heard J-10c, EFT, Gripen from different sources. Can't tell which one will BAF end up buying.



It would look good to have fighters from all suppliers and not putting all eggs in one basket.


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## Imran Khan

Al-Ansar said:


> Talk of AE&WC is putting cart before the horse. BAF needs to be shamed into procuring a few dozens of fighter jets.
> It's a shame that that the general BD population is apathetic to defence and strategic affairs allowing BAF bludgers to be complacent.


man total budget is 4.20bn$ and if we divide in 3 its became 1.33bn$ . although we know army may take major chunk always . then with 1.33bn you pay salaries you maintain current fleet you do operations you have to pay pensions you have to maintain air bases you have to pay for ground services maintain radars and sub systems of air force if air defense is under you you have to maintain it so . what you think how much funds left for a new fighter ? i think not even 100mn$ per year .you are just blming them wrong . they also want modern fighters but they can not afford . what indian defense minister then said ? we buy 36 rafales because we can not afford more and do not need more .



Incog_nito said:


> It would look good to have fighters from all suppliers and not putting all eggs in one basket.


its a small air force with limited recurses they don't have big game . they should buy from one supplier and stick on it . your advice is wrong for country like BD sir . they should go to mig-35 so they can use something from mig-29 too ot go to j-10 .

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> man total budget is 4.20bn$ and if we divide in 3 its became 1.33bn$ . although we know army may take major chunk always . then with 1.33bn you pay salaries you maintain current fleet you do operations you have to pay pensions you have to maintain air bases you have to pay for ground services maintain radars and sub systems of air force if air defense is under you you have to maintain it so . what you think how much funds left for a new fighter ? i think not even 100mn$ per year .you are just blming them wrong . they also want modern fighters but they can not afford . what indian defense minister then said ? we buy 36 rafales because we can not afford more and do not need more .



Funding for major defence purchase does not work like that in BD.
The government makes seperate allocations for these. It is a matter of making the case for the required hardware to the government and pushing it through the red tapes. BA and BN do it all the time.
The government cannot select fighters for BAF. BAF have to choose and insist. All they do is make half-assed attempts and buckle under the slightest pushback from the bureaucracy.

Since the current govt took office BA and BN have transformed themselves in many aspects (3 new infantry divisions, army special forces strength multiplied by 4-5 times, addition of dozens of SPHs and GMLRS, SAMs, infantry modernisation, tanks, 6-7 frigates, dozens of other vessels, upgrade and expansion of SWADS, expansion of army and navy aviation units you name it).

In the meanwhile almost everything BAF has bought is less important than procuring fighter jets.

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## Imran Khan

Al-Ansar said:


> Funding for major defence purchase does not work like that in BD.
> The government makes seperate allocations for these. It is a matter of making the case for the required hardware to the government and pushing it through the red tapes. BA and BN do it all the time.
> The government cannot select fighters for BAF. BAF have to choose and insist. All they do is make half-assed attempts and buckle under the slightest pushback from the bureaucracy.
> 
> Since the current govt took office BA and BN have transformed themselves in many aspects (3 new infantry divisions, army special forces strength multiplied by 4-5 times, addition of dozens of SPHs and GMLRS, SAMs, infantry modernisation, tanks, 6-7 frigates, dozens of other vessels, upgrade and expansion of SWADS, expansion of army and navy aviation units you name it).
> 
> In the meanwhile almost everything BAF has bought is less important than procuring fighter jets.


then what is stopping them to select and go ahead ?????? i cant believe an air force taking 10-15 years in fact 20 years to buy new fighters while funds are available . its not make any sense sir .

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## Rahil Ahmed

Is the budget officially set or have we yet to receive more news?


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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> then what is stopping them to select and go ahead ?????? i cant believe an air force taking 10-15 years in fact 20 years to buy new fighters while funds are available . its not make any sense sir .



Because BAF leadership is full of incompetent fatties.


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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Because BAF leadership is full of incompetent fatties.


i think there must be a some issue . its not that simple . without fighter jets an airforce is just another air wing of army or airline . they must have something else sir .

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> i think there must be a some issue . its not that simple . without fighter jets an airforce is just another air wing of army or airline . they must have something else sir .



No they're just a bunch of chutiyas.

Also some countries are trying really hard to have an influence on our defences purchases, this makes life very hard for neutral country like Bangladesh.

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> then what is stopping them to select and go ahead ?????? i cant believe an air force taking 10-15 years in fact 20 years to buy new fighters while funds are available . its not make any sense sir .


Poor leadership

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## DalalErMaNodi

Al-Ansar said:


> Poor leadership


Try no leadership

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## Imran Khan

Al-Ansar said:


> Poor leadership


i am not sure but its not ever 4 years air chief change? and sure policy will change with him too . everyone have own ideas .


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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> i am not sure but its not ever 4 years air chief change? and sure policy will change with him too . everyone have own ideas .



Yes, they do change, but the end result is always the same

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Yes, they do change, but the end result is always the same


look like they have group chat for not buying anything new .


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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> look like they have group chat for not buying anything new .



Maybe they're taking advice from the wifey, she's insisting on saving money, so they're buying aircraft. Beats me as to why they don't make a move, any reason could be true.

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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> then what is stopping them to select and go ahead ?????? i cant believe an air force taking 10-15 years in fact 20 years to buy new fighters while funds are available . its not make any sense sir .


10... since f7bgi were supposed to be stopgaps for next gen... back in 2008 but still we’re just as frustrated


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> 10... since f7bgi were supposed to be stopgaps for next gen... back in 2008 but still we’re just as frustrated


i was waiting for new fighter since 2002



* MiG-29s to be jettisoned*

* Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*

_M Anwarul Haq_

*Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government. *




"The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. *"Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion dollars a year for spare parts and maintenance."*

The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.

Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.

The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.

The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.

Hasina, the leader of the opposition in parliament, has dismissed the charges and said that the fighter planes were purchased at competitive prices for 'defence of the country'.

The Bureau of Anti-corruption (BAC) has lodged a case with the Tejgaon police station, implicating Hasina and some high officials of her government for alleged irregularities in procurement of the MIG-29s.

In a volume of the recently published White Paper, the government of Hasina is also accused of willful wrongdoing in purchase of the military equipment from Russia. The prime minister told the newsmen that most of the MiGs had been grounded and become a burden to the exchequer.

If sold out now, the aircraft will fetch a good price, the prime minister is learnt to said. Otherwise, she added, the country will require at least 100 crore taka every year for their maintenance.

"It is therefore better to sell them and spare the exchequer from such a heavy, recurring burden," she concluded.

Besides the half squadron MiGs, the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) is learnt to have a fully trained outfit to fly five squadrons, each having a standard of 16 jets. It has three squadrons of fighter jets. The fleet comprises Chinese A-5 ground attack aircraft, F-7 MB attack and defence role fighters and Czech manufactured L-39 jets. It has also some obsolete MIG-21 aircraft procured years back. It also possess two dozen helicopters, US made Bell and Russian MI-17.

The Chinese government is learnt to have offered to sell at least one dozen F-7 MB fighters which have proved to be less expensive and suitable for Bangladesh during the last government's tenure on deferred payment basis, but the deal was not accepted.

It was learnt that in an evaluation memo by one of the country's top security agencies it was told that the purchase of eight MiG-29 aircraft will not increase the combat capacity of the BAF, rather it might reduce it. "Maintenance requirement of the MiG-29s will exhaust the budget provision.

Other fighter aircraft may lose their effectiveness for lack of maintenance," it said. Ahead of the MiG purchase in February 1999, a military technical co-operation agreement was signed with the Russian Federation in Dhaka. Some analysts said it was not clear why such a comprehensive agreement was required to purchase eight MiG-29s.

While the US was unable to offer Bangladesh a comparable fighter jet at a competitive price, it attempted to prevent the government from buying Russian aifcraft, according to defence sources..

Top of the page

http://sdnbd.org/sdi/news/general-news/July/17-07-2002/Business.htm


----------



## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> i was waiting for new fighter since 2002
> 
> 
> 
> * MiG-29s to be jettisoned*
> 
> * Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*
> 
> _M Anwarul Haq_
> 
> *Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government. *
> 
> 
> 
> "The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. *"Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion dollars a year for spare parts and maintenance."*
> 
> The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.
> 
> Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.
> 
> The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.
> 
> The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.
> 
> Hasina, the leader of the opposition in parliament, has dismissed the charges and said that the fighter planes were purchased at competitive prices for 'defence of the country'.
> 
> The Bureau of Anti-corruption (BAC) has lodged a case with the Tejgaon police station, implicating Hasina and some high officials of her government for alleged irregularities in procurement of the MIG-29s.
> 
> In a volume of the recently published White Paper, the government of Hasina is also accused of willful wrongdoing in purchase of the military equipment from Russia. The prime minister told the newsmen that most of the MiGs had been grounded and become a burden to the exchequer.
> 
> If sold out now, the aircraft will fetch a good price, the prime minister is learnt to said. Otherwise, she added, the country will require at least 100 crore taka every year for their maintenance.
> 
> "It is therefore better to sell them and spare the exchequer from such a heavy, recurring burden," she concluded.
> 
> Besides the half squadron MiGs, the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) is learnt to have a fully trained outfit to fly five squadrons, each having a standard of 16 jets. It has three squadrons of fighter jets. The fleet comprises Chinese A-5 ground attack aircraft, F-7 MB attack and defence role fighters and Czech manufactured L-39 jets. It has also some obsolete MIG-21 aircraft procured years back. It also possess two dozen helicopters, US made Bell and Russian MI-17.
> 
> The Chinese government is learnt to have offered to sell at least one dozen F-7 MB fighters which have proved to be less expensive and suitable for Bangladesh during the last government's tenure on deferred payment basis, but the deal was not accepted.
> 
> It was learnt that in an evaluation memo by one of the country's top security agencies it was told that the purchase of eight MiG-29 aircraft will not increase the combat capacity of the BAF, rather it might reduce it. "Maintenance requirement of the MiG-29s will exhaust the budget provision.
> 
> Other fighter aircraft may lose their effectiveness for lack of maintenance," it said. Ahead of the MiG purchase in February 1999, a military technical co-operation agreement was signed with the Russian Federation in Dhaka. Some analysts said it was not clear why such a comprehensive agreement was required to purchase eight MiG-29s.
> 
> While the US was unable to offer Bangladesh a comparable fighter jet at a competitive price, it attempted to prevent the government from buying Russian aifcraft, according to defence sources..
> 
> Top of the page
> 
> http://sdnbd.org/sdi/news/general-news/July/17-07-2002/Business.htm


That whore Khaleda cancelled the order of 16 more and the 8 that was ready for delivery was also cancelled. Bangladesh lost a lot of the money as Russia fairly didn’t refund full purchase price. 
She court martialed the officers who favored to keep the mig 29 and wouldn’t testify against Hasina... and then wanted to sell the 8 already delivered. 
Looted the country like a whore would do after sleeping with client

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> i was waiting for new fighter since 2002
> 
> 
> 
> * MiG-29s to be jettisoned*
> 
> * Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*
> 
> _M Anwarul Haq_
> 
> *Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government. *
> 
> 
> 
> "The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. *"Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion dollars a year for spare parts and maintenance."*
> 
> The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.
> 
> Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.
> 
> The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.
> 
> The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.
> 
> Hasina, the leader of the opposition in parliament, has dismissed the charges and said that the fighter planes were purchased at competitive prices for 'defence of the country'.
> 
> The Bureau of Anti-corruption (BAC) has lodged a case with the Tejgaon police station, implicating Hasina and some high officials of her government for alleged irregularities in procurement of the MIG-29s.
> 
> In a volume of the recently published White Paper, the government of Hasina is also accused of willful wrongdoing in purchase of the military equipment from Russia. The prime minister told the newsmen that most of the MiGs had been grounded and become a burden to the exchequer.
> 
> If sold out now, the aircraft will fetch a good price, the prime minister is learnt to said. Otherwise, she added, the country will require at least 100 crore taka every year for their maintenance.
> 
> "It is therefore better to sell them and spare the exchequer from such a heavy, recurring burden," she concluded.
> 
> Besides the half squadron MiGs, the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) is learnt to have a fully trained outfit to fly five squadrons, each having a standard of 16 jets. It has three squadrons of fighter jets. The fleet comprises Chinese A-5 ground attack aircraft, F-7 MB attack and defence role fighters and Czech manufactured L-39 jets. It has also some obsolete MIG-21 aircraft procured years back. It also possess two dozen helicopters, US made Bell and Russian MI-17.
> 
> The Chinese government is learnt to have offered to sell at least one dozen F-7 MB fighters which have proved to be less expensive and suitable for Bangladesh during the last government's tenure on deferred payment basis, but the deal was not accepted.
> 
> It was learnt that in an evaluation memo by one of the country's top security agencies it was told that the purchase of eight MiG-29 aircraft will not increase the combat capacity of the BAF, rather it might reduce it. "Maintenance requirement of the MiG-29s will exhaust the budget provision.
> 
> Other fighter aircraft may lose their effectiveness for lack of maintenance," it said. Ahead of the MiG purchase in February 1999, a military technical co-operation agreement was signed with the Russian Federation in Dhaka. Some analysts said it was not clear why such a comprehensive agreement was required to purchase eight MiG-29s.
> 
> While the US was unable to offer Bangladesh a comparable fighter jet at a competitive price, it attempted to prevent the government from buying Russian aifcraft, according to defence sources..
> 
> Top of the page
> 
> http://sdnbd.org/sdi/news/general-news/July/17-07-2002/Business.htm



This is news from 2002, khaleda was in the mighty chair, I didn't expect anything short of this from her.

Khaleda should be executed for having low IQ alongside her son Tareq Rahman.

Tarek m@d@rc### anghoota chap has no qualifications but he's apparently a billionaire and lives in a massive estate in England.

He should be executed too, immediately and telecast live.

Traitors to the state, should not be spared.

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> That whore Khaleda cancelled the order of 16 more and the 8 that was ready for delivery was also cancelled. Bangladesh lost a lot of the money as Russia fairly didn’t refund full purchase price.
> She court martialed the officers who favored to keep the mig 29 and wouldn’t testify against Hasina... and then wanted to sell the 8 already delivered.
> Looted the country like a whore would do after sleeping with client





DalalErMaNodi said:


> This is news from 2002, khaleda was in the mighty chair, I didn't expect anything short of this from her.
> 
> Khaleda should be executed for having low IQ alongside her son Tareq Rahman.
> 
> Tarek m@d@rc### anghoota chap has no qualifications but he's apparently a billionaire and lives in a massive estate in England.
> 
> He should be executed too, immediately and telecast live.
> 
> Traitors to the state, should not be spared.


well it seems BD air force is since that day of 1999 is waiting for new fighters . may be officers are scared for being targeted of corruption in future that is why they dont want to take a side ? technically BD did not got any new fighter jet since 1999 . as BGI can not be said new fighter but continuous of F-7BG .

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> This is news from 2002, khaleda was in the mighty chair, I didn't expect anything short of this from her.
> 
> Khaleda should be executed for having low IQ alongside her son Tareq Rahman.
> 
> Tarek m@d@rc### anghoota chap has no qualifications but he's apparently a billionaire and lives in a massive estate in England.
> 
> He should be executed too, immediately and telecast live.
> 
> Traitors to the state, should not be spared.


BNS bangabandhu was put on reserve and left to rust till 2008 when the caretakers decided to reactivate it, thanks to Khaleda and sons 

nigga got spine surgery and now walks like an athlete, rolls Royce, Mercedes is water for him in London. 
His daughter has a thing for bbc, she was arrested for drugs along with some black dude some time back



Imran Khan said:


> well it seems BD air force is since that day of 1999 is waiting for new fighters . may be officers are scared for being targeted of corruption in future that is why they dont want to take a side ? technically BD did not got any new fighter jet since 1999 . as BGI can not be said new fighter but continuous of F-7BG .


1999 bd applied for f16s but US rejected on grounds that bd was too poor to afford such a fighter, then they went for mig 29s


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## Tom-tom

Michael Corleone said:


> BNS bangabandhu was put on reserve and left to rust till 2008 when the caretakers decided to reactivate it, thanks to Khaleda and sons
> 
> nigga got spine surgery and now walks like an athlete, rolls Royce, Mercedes is water for him in London.
> His daughter has a thing for bbc, she was arrested for drugs along with some black dude some time back
> 
> 
> 1999 bd applied for f16s but US rejected on grounds that bd was too poor to afford such a fighter, then they went for mig 29s



Have you got a news link khaleda s grand daughter being arrested?


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## Michael Corleone

Tom-tom said:


> Have you got a news link khaleda s grand daughter being arrested?


Not really, mum showed it to me on her phone last year


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> BNS bangabandhu was put on reserve and left to rust till 2008 when the caretakers decided to reactivate it, thanks to Khaleda and sons
> 
> nigga got spine surgery and now walks like an athlete, rolls Royce, Mercedes is water for him in London.
> His daughter has a thing for bbc, she was arrested for drugs along with some black dude some time back
> 
> 
> 1999 bd applied for f16s but US rejected on grounds that bd was too poor to afford such a fighter, then they went for mig 29s


report say budget of BD was not enough for f-16s sir . how many f-16 can be got with 125mn$ sir ?.
in 1999 there was production of block-40/42 . It was 34m$ each fly away cost .


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> report say budget of BD was not enough for f-16s sir . how many f-16 can be got with 125mn$ sir ?.
> in 1999 there was production of block-40/42 . It was 34m$ each fly away cost .


Most probably why bd got rejected, you can find news articles related to it. Bd economy was Extremely poor at that time


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> Most probably why bd got rejected, you can find news articles related to it. Bd economy was Extremely poor at that time


i think US needs money you pay them they will sale . but those times may be some humanity left in them today they sale to countries blindly just pay and take . they sale this year to Zambia -Botswana - uraguay - camaroon - ethopia and many more .


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Not really, mum showed it to me on her phone last year




Article said she (tarek's daughter) liked BBC channel?


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> i think US needs money you pay them they will sale . but those times may be some humanity left in them today they sale to countries blindly just pay and take . they sale this year to Zambia -Botswana - uraguay - camaroon - ethopia and many more .


F16 now is mostly meh aircraft so selling to poor shitholes is a way to earn money. Smart business really


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## Arthur

Some failed attempts by BAF in last 22 years :

1. Wanted to buy F-16. Got shot down.
2. Wanted F-4 Phantoms. Got shot down again.

3. Bought Mig 29. Half assed it.

4. Negotiated the J- 10 A in 2005-2006. Got blocked by Ruskies.

5. Wanted to buy Su 30. Didn't happen.

6. Ruskies offered refurbished & upgraded Su-27. Didn't buy.

7. Wanted to buy refurbished Gripen C/D. They offered new E/F. They don't have that kind of money. 

If anyone is giving out gold medals for trying, they should give away a few to BAF

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> F16 now is mostly meh aircraft so selling to poor shitholes is a way to earn money. Smart business really


not F-16 but weapons i was talking about . only new costumers added in F-16 users are slovakia and iraq . but US is smart they sale downgraded to iraq .



Arthur said:


> Some failed attempts by BAF in last 22 years :
> 
> 1. Wanted to buy F-16. Got shot down.
> 2. Wanted F-4 Phantoms. Got shot down again.
> 
> 3. Bought Mig 29. Half assed it.
> 
> 4. Negotiated the J- 10 A in 2005-2006. Got blocked by Ruskies.
> 
> 5. Wanted to buy Su 30. Didn't happen.
> 
> 6. Ruskies offered refurbished & upgraded Su-27. Didn't buy.
> 
> 7. Wanted to buy refurbished Gripen C/D. They offered new E/F. They don't have that kind of money.
> 
> If anyone is giving out a gold medals for trying, they should give away a few to BAF


at least they tried it we should give credit where is due

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> not F-16 but weapons i was talking about . only new costumers added in F-16 users are slovakia and iraq . but US is smart they sale downgraded to iraq .
> 
> 
> at least they tried it we should give credit where is due



National security is not joke, BAF leadership should be demoted for being useless

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> National security is not joke, BAF leadership should be demoted for being useless


ohhh common there are no risks so far you are on safe corner of earth . come here see what is real threat one side iran vs world drama is playing .other side afghanistan is burning since 200 years .and third side india is on fire . we are or risk of security issues from almost all sides only chines border is safe . you are living in paradise geography .


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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> ohhh common there are no risks so far you are on safe corner of earth . come here see what is real threat one side iran vs world drama is playing .other side afghanistan is burning since 200 years .and third side india is on fire . we are or risk of security issues from almost all sides only chines border is safe . you are living in paradise geography .



We have Indian RSS Muslim haters on one side, who dream all 160 million Bangladeshi are born and then crying until they can jump the border and stay India because it's a superpower. On otherside we have anti Muslim genocidal regime in Burma which wants to send all dark skinned Muslim rohingya into our country.

Bangladesh is only Muslim country with no borders with another Muslim country, we are truly alone.


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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> Some failed attempts by BAF in last 22 years :
> 
> 1. Wanted to buy F-16. Got shot down.
> 2. Wanted F-4 Phantoms. Got shot down again.
> 
> 3. Bought Mig 29. Half assed it.
> 
> 4. Negotiated the J- 10 A in 2005-2006. Got blocked by Ruskies.
> 
> 5. Wanted to buy Su 30. Didn't happen.
> 
> 6. Ruskies offered refurbished & upgraded Su-27. Didn't buy.
> 
> 7. Wanted to buy refurbished Gripen C/D. They offered new E/F. They don't have that kind of money.
> 
> If anyone is giving out a gold medals for trying, they should give away a few to BAF


Gold would be insult. Platinum is minimum expected



Imran Khan said:


> ohhh common there are no risks so far you are on safe corner of earth . come here see what is real threat one side iran vs world drama is playing .other side afghanistan is burning since 200 years .and third side india is on fire . we are or risk of security issues from almost all sides only chines border is safe . you are living in paradise geography .


It’s true. Apparently geographically, France is in the best spot in the world because it enjoys nearly 360 degree of protection... but Pakistan suffers from the worst geographic location, it’s divided even on ethnic regions. 
Meanwhile Dhaka is said to be the best place to build a capital city... but bd is mostly useless

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We have Indian RSS Muslim haters on one side, who dream all 160 million Bangladeshi are born and then crying until they can jump the border and stay India because it's a superpower. On otherside we have anti Muslim genocidal regime in Burma which wants to send all dark skinned Muslim rohingya into our country.
> 
> Bangladesh is only Muslim country with no borders with another Muslim country, we are truly alone.


but few jests will not change anything on indian factor sir . 120+ some 4++ jets can make a change . for MYM you guys need some 4sqn of good jets to handle them . i think BD should stay calm and keep enjoying economic benifits without clash with any side . global warming will make BD in very bad situation next decades you guys must have some good relations with neighbors from now so they can help you at the time of crisis .



By 2050, with a projected 50 cm *rise* in *sea level*, *Bangladesh* may lose approximately 11% of its land, affecting an estimated 15 million people living in its low-lying coastal region.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> but few jests will not change anything on indian factor sir . 120+ some 4++ jets can make a change . for MYM you guys need some 4sqn of good jets to handle them . i think BD should stay calm and keep enjoying economic benifits without clash with any side . global warming will make BD in very bad situation next decades you guys must have some good relations with neighbors from now so they can help you at the time of crisis .
> 
> 
> 
> By 2050, with a projected 50 cm *rise* in *sea level*, *Bangladesh* may lose approximately 11% of its land, affecting an estimated 15 million people living in its low-lying coastal region.



Allah hates Bangladesh, weather likes to **** us hard every now and then


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> but few jests will not change anything on indian factor sir . 120+ some 4++ jets can make a change . for MYM you guys need some 4sqn of good jets to handle them . i think BD should stay calm and keep enjoying economic benifits without clash with any side . global warming will make BD in very bad situation next decades you guys must have some good relations with neighbors from now so they can help you at the time of crisis .
> 
> 
> 
> By 2050, with a projected 50 cm *rise* in *sea level*, *Bangladesh* may lose approximately 11% of its land, affecting an estimated 15 million people living in its low-lying coastal region.


Not worried about that as long as the delta project is carried on with Netherlands assistance on time.


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## Rahil Ahmed

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We have Indian RSS Muslim haters on one side, who dream all 160 million Bangladeshi are born and then crying until they can jump the border and stay India because it's a superpower. On otherside we have anti Muslim genocidal regime in Burma which wants to send all dark skinned Muslim rohingya into our country.
> 
> Bangladesh is only Muslim country with no borders with another Muslim country, we are truly alone.


Well Muslim countries that do border each other don't tend to get along


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## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Well Muslim countries that do border each other don't tend to get along



Not necessarily, Indonesia and Malaysia get along just fine.


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> Not worried about that as long as the delta project is carried on with Netherlands assistance on time.


that's great netherland have did some great job in this regards my best wishes with you guys . still no need any enmity in area and BD should keep calm .

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## Rahil Ahmed

Michael Corleone said:


> Not worried about that as long as the delta project is carried on with Netherlands assistance on time.


What delta project?


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> What delta project?


Delta plan 2100

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## Michael Corleone

Rahil Ahmed said:


> What delta project?


Delta plan 2100, do note that this will be an ongoing project even post 2100 to adapt to the changing climate... so ultimate survival of Bangladesh depends on how much we are able to adapt



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Article said she (tarek's daughter) liked BBC channel?


Report said she got arrested with a black dude in an apartment with contrabands (don’t know what kind) her mother had to sign off something with the police to bail her


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Delta plan 2100, do note that this will be an ongoing project even post 2100 to adapt to the changing climate... so ultimate survival of Bangladesh depends on how much we are able to adapt
> 
> 
> Report said she got arrested with a black dude in an apartment with contrabands (don’t know what kind) her mother had to sign off something with the police to bail her



In line with BKZ's track record, they probably wanted to sell their daughter off for "sitting idle and costing money".


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## Nike

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Not necessarily, Indonesia and Malaysia get along just fine.



LoL.


----------



## Incog_nito

Imran Khan said:


> i was waiting for new fighter since 2002
> 
> 
> 
> * MiG-29s to be jettisoned*
> 
> * Tk 100 cr maintenance cost a year too high to afford, says Khaleda*
> 
> _M Anwarul Haq_
> 
> *Prime Minister Khaleda Zia has said that her government intends to dispose of eight MiG-29 fighters procured two years back from Russia by the Awami League government. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The planes are sitting idle. The state is losing money just to keep them," Khaleda told a group of journalists in the capital yesterday, according to an Associated Press (AP) dispatch. *"Bangladesh wants to sell eight Russian-made MiG-29 fighter planes because it cannot afford one billion dollars a year for spare parts and maintenance."*
> 
> The prime minister was speaking to members of the Commonwealth Journalists Association (CJA) at her office. Hasan Shahriar, Farid Hossain and M Mukhlesur Rahman, president, secretary-general and organising secretary respectively of the CJA, were present.
> 
> Shamsuddin Ahmed, executive member of the Bangladesh chapter, was also there.
> 
> The eight MiG-29 Fulcrum jet fighters were purchased in a $124 million state-to-state deal between Dhaka and Moscow. Each aircraft was priced $11 million and the remaining $36 million was allocated for training and spare parts. Some ten pilots and 70 technicians underwent training in Russia as part of the deal to familiarise themselves with the aircraft.
> 
> The government of Khaleda Zia has levelled allegations of irregularities against her immediate predecessor Sheikh Hasina in procurement of the fourth-generation multi-role jet fighters.
> 
> Hasina, the leader of the opposition in parliament, has dismissed the charges and said that the fighter planes were purchased at competitive prices for 'defence of the country'.
> 
> The Bureau of Anti-corruption (BAC) has lodged a case with the Tejgaon police station, implicating Hasina and some high officials of her government for alleged irregularities in procurement of the MIG-29s.
> 
> In a volume of the recently published White Paper, the government of Hasina is also accused of willful wrongdoing in purchase of the military equipment from Russia. The prime minister told the newsmen that most of the MiGs had been grounded and become a burden to the exchequer.
> 
> If sold out now, the aircraft will fetch a good price, the prime minister is learnt to said. Otherwise, she added, the country will require at least 100 crore taka every year for their maintenance.
> 
> "It is therefore better to sell them and spare the exchequer from such a heavy, recurring burden," she concluded.
> 
> Besides the half squadron MiGs, the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) is learnt to have a fully trained outfit to fly five squadrons, each having a standard of 16 jets. It has three squadrons of fighter jets. The fleet comprises Chinese A-5 ground attack aircraft, F-7 MB attack and defence role fighters and Czech manufactured L-39 jets. It has also some obsolete MIG-21 aircraft procured years back. It also possess two dozen helicopters, US made Bell and Russian MI-17.
> 
> The Chinese government is learnt to have offered to sell at least one dozen F-7 MB fighters which have proved to be less expensive and suitable for Bangladesh during the last government's tenure on deferred payment basis, but the deal was not accepted.
> 
> It was learnt that in an evaluation memo by one of the country's top security agencies it was told that the purchase of eight MiG-29 aircraft will not increase the combat capacity of the BAF, rather it might reduce it. "Maintenance requirement of the MiG-29s will exhaust the budget provision.
> 
> Other fighter aircraft may lose their effectiveness for lack of maintenance," it said. Ahead of the MiG purchase in February 1999, a military technical co-operation agreement was signed with the Russian Federation in Dhaka. Some analysts said it was not clear why such a comprehensive agreement was required to purchase eight MiG-29s.
> 
> While the US was unable to offer Bangladesh a comparable fighter jet at a competitive price, it attempted to prevent the government from buying Russian aifcraft, according to defence sources..
> 
> Top of the page
> 
> http://sdnbd.org/sdi/news/general-news/July/17-07-2002/Business.htm



What is the cost of maintenance of used F-16s C/D with MUL-4 ?


----------



## Tom-tom

Michael Corleone said:


> Delta plan 2100, do note that this will be an ongoing project even post 2100 to adapt to the changing climate... so ultimate survival of Bangladesh depends on how much we are able to adapt
> 
> 
> Report said she got arrested with a black dude in an apartment with contrabands (don’t know what kind) her mother had to sign off something with the police to bail her



What's the daughters name?


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## DalalErMaNodi

Nike said:


> LoL.



Okay, gross oversimplification but the have better relations than any other significant Muslim neighbours.


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We have Indian RSS Muslim haters on one side, who dream all 160 million Bangladeshi are born and then crying until they can jump the border and stay India because it's a superpower. On otherside we have anti Muslim genocidal regime in Burma which wants to send all dark skinned Muslim rohingya into our country.
> 
> Bangladesh is only Muslim country with no borders with another Muslim country, we are truly alone.


Bangladesh's economy will crumble if it wants to compete with India militarily. India is the 4th largest military and a regional power.

India's air force is huge. Their sole inventory of SU-30 is far greater than the total number of equipments of BAF. Indian Navy is the second or third nation to run nuclear powered submarine.

Also don't forget India has ICBM's and IRBMs.

Bangladesh army cannot match upto Indian standard, not in the next 50 years.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bangladesh's economy will crumble if it wants to compete with India militarily. India is the 4th largest military and a regional power.
> 
> India's air force is huge. Their sole inventory of SU-30 is far greater than the total number of equipments of BAF. Indian Navy is the second or third nation to run nuclear powered submarine.
> 
> Also don't forget India has ICBM's and IRBMs.
> 
> Bangladesh army cannot match upto Indian standard, not in the next 50 years.



Never said we can.


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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Never said we can.


But yes if you talk about Burma then BAF should buy new jets which will be enough for them. Currently Burmese threat is greater. They already shoved millions of Rohingya into Bangladesh. Without military might, not a single Rohingya will return.


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## X-ray Papa

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bangladesh's economy will crumble if it wants to compete with India militarily. India is the 4th largest military and a regional power.
> 
> India's air force is huge. Their sole inventory of SU-30 is far greater than the total number of equipments of BAF. Indian Navy is the second or third nation to run nuclear powered submarine.
> 
> Also don't forget India has ICBM's and IRBMs.
> 
> Bangladesh army cannot match upto Indian standard, not in the next 50 years.


It wont be a problem if we have a proper defence industry.

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## Buddhistforlife

X-ray Papa said:


> It wont be a problem if we have a proper defence industry.


What are you smoking? With a proper defence industry it will still take 50 years for BD to come close to India. Either you don't have any idea about Indian army or you are one of those BAL ultra nationalists.



X-ray Papa said:


> It wont be a problem if we have a proper defence industry.


Bangladesh is behind Brazil, Iran, Thailand and many other nations when it comes to defence capabilities. And you are talking about India which is the 4th largest military power in the world.


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## X-ray Papa

Buddhistforlife said:


> Either you don't have any idea about Indian army or you are one of those BAL ultra nationalists.


Says the guy who is cheering for burma. How is my comment pro BAL? i am maybe be ultra nationalist but at least i am not anti-bangladeshi like you.



Buddhistforlife said:


> What are you smoking? With a proper defence industry it will still take 50 years for BD to come close to India.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is behind Brazil, Iran, Thailand and many other nations when it comes to defence capabilities. And you are talking about India which is the 4th largest military power in the world.


With proper defence industry
1) we dont have to rely on foreign supplier like india.
2) Built SRBM/MRBM to hit delhi and mumbai 
3) Supply arms to indians/burmese rebel group

There are two things that india is ahead of us.
1) Huge Numbers of troops and equipment 
2) Nukes


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## Buddhistforlife

X-ray Papa said:


> Says the guy who is cheering for burma. How is my comment pro BAL? i am maybe be ultra nationalist but at least i am not anti-bangladeshi like you.


If you take things out of context then I can't help. Anyways the main point is that in order for Bangladesh to come close to India means you need to cross Iran, Brazil, DPRK, Taiwan etc in terms of military power.


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## X-ray Papa

Buddhistforlife said:


> If you take things out of context then I can't help. Anyways the main point is that in order for Bangladesh to come close to India means you need to cross Iran, Brazil, DPRK, Taiwan etc in terms of military power.


How is these countries related to bangladesh military development? India and Burma is our threat so we should be arming ourself to face that threat. You cant compare the threat that iran, taiwan and DPRK is facing to us as they have different enemy and tactics to face them. Iran is using proxy to gain influence, DPRK wants to nuke usa. So what is your suggestion on facing india? wait 50 years to have 1 million soldier and fighter aircaft and then fight them.


----------



## Buddhistforlife

X-ray Papa said:


> How is these countries related to bangladesh military development? India and Burma is our threat so we should be arming ourself to face that threat. You cant compare the threat that iran, taiwan and DPRK is facing to us as they have different enemy and tactics to face them. Iran is using proxy to gain influence, DPRK wants to nuke usa. So what is your suggestion on facing india? wait 50 years to have 1 million soldier and fighter aircaft and then fight them.


Did I say anything about strategies? Please show me. I was referring to military strength here. It is true that Bangladesh have to cross Iran, DPRK, Taiwan in military strength as India is far more powerful than these countries.



X-ray Papa said:


> Says the guy who is cheering for burma. How is my comment pro BAL? i am maybe be ultra nationalist but at least i am not anti-bangladeshi like you.
> 
> 
> With proper defence industry
> 1) we dont have to rely on foreign supplier like india.
> 2) Built SRBM/MRBM to hit delhi and mumbai
> 3) Supply arms to indians/burmese rebel group
> 
> There are two things that india is ahead of us.
> 1) Huge Numbers of troops and equipment
> 2) Nukes


Lol you are a noob when it comes to military knowledge. What will SRBM and MRBM do against India?

India has ICBM and IRBMs. You are still not literate enough man.



X-ray Papa said:


> How is these countries related to bangladesh military development? India and Burma is our threat so we should be arming ourself to face that threat. You cant compare the threat that iran, taiwan and DPRK is facing to us as they have different enemy and tactics to face them. Iran is using proxy to gain influence, DPRK wants to nuke usa. So what is your suggestion on facing india? wait 50 years to have 1 million soldier and fighter aircaft and then fight them.


*Also I have never said that Bangladesh can never become as powerful as India or any other country*. What I said that given the current quality of defence industry we have and the defence gap between India and Bangladesh, it will take more decades for Bangladesh to come close to Bangladesh.

The problem is you don't read things properly and try to over react like many *Bolod marka, extremely sentimental Bengalis. *

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## X-ray Papa

Buddhistforlife said:


> Did I say anything about strategies? Please show me. I was referring to military strength here. It is true that Bangladesh have to cross Iran, DPRK, Taiwan in military strength as India is far more powerful than these countries.


If strength matters then israel should have been wiped out of the map by far powerful egypt and syria.



Buddhistforlife said:


> Lol you are a noob when it comes to military knowledge. What will SRBM and MRBM do against India?
> 
> India has ICBM and IRBMs. You are still not literate enough man.


What will SRBM and MRBM will do to india? no wonder your kind is shit at fighting.




Buddhistforlife said:


> *Also I have never said that Bangladesh can never become as powerful as India or any other country*. What I said that given the current quality of defence industry we have and the defence gap between India and Bangladesh, it will take more decades for Bangladesh to come close to Bangladesh.
> 
> The problem is you don't read things properly and try to over react like many *Bolod marka, extremely sentimental Bengalis. *


How did over react? i said that building up a proper defence industry will help us to against india. I never accuse you of saying bangladesh can never be powerful as india.


----------



## Buddhistforlife

X-ray Papa said:


> If strength matters then israel should have been wiped out of the map by far powerful egypt and syria.
> 
> 
> What will SRBM and MRBM will do to india? no wonder your kind is shit at fighting.
> 
> 
> 
> How did over react? i said that building up a proper defence industry will help us to against india. I never accuse you of saying bangladesh can never be powerful as india.


*israel should have been wiped out of the map by far powerful egypt and syria.*

Egypt and Syria far more powerful than Israel?? Are you out of your mind??



X-ray Papa said:


> If strength matters then israel should have been wiped out of the map by far powerful egypt and syria.
> 
> 
> What will SRBM and MRBM will do to india? no wonder your kind is shit at fighting.
> 
> 
> 
> How did over react? i said that building up a proper defence industry will help us to against india. I never accuse you of saying bangladesh can never be powerful as india.


People who have studied defence for years can easily tell that Israel is more stronger than Syria. My god!!!


----------



## Buddhistforlife

X-ray Papa said:


> My god your dumb. I meant that if strength is important than strategies than eygpt and syria would have been wiped out israel be it in the past or present.
> 
> 
> BTW your the guy that believe in whatever wikipedia and random facebook group says about defences. So Shut the f*** up


No I don't. Check rankings and check the quality of equipments Israel has.

Israel is a nuclear weapon state. Then Israel has all sorts of American weapons and training starting from 5th generation fighter jets to naval and ground forces equipment.

Israel is also starting their own space force.

Israel army has one of the best trained soldiers in the world. They provide training and logistics support to even foreign nations.

In 1999 Kargil war, without Israeli support and training, India could never fight Pakistani soldiers who were sitting at such a high altitude.










X-ray Papa said:


> My god your dumb. I meant that if strength is important than strategies than eygpt and syria would have been wiped out israel be it in the past or present.
> 
> 
> BTW your the guy that believe in whatever wikipedia and random facebook group says about defences. So Shut the f*** up




@X-ray Papa

Syrian army is a joke. They use old Russian weapons and some old scud missiles.

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## Avicenna

Mig-29BM

Probably the most exciting confirmed thing regarding BAF as of now. (referring to upgrade)

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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> View attachment 640546
> 
> 
> Mig-29BM


TBH this is junk fighter in modern war .you see how badly su-30MKI went at the time of need? they were failed to fire a single missile that day . mig29 is worse then su30

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## Avicenna

Imran Khan said:


> TBH this is junk fighter in modern war .you see how badly su-30MKI went at the time of need? they were failed to fire a single missile that day . mig29 is worse then su30



Yes I agree.

But even junk is better than nothing.

It's interesting that BAF went this route to potentially use these as maritime strike fighters.

Perhaps that had something to do with the pics of the Mig-29 with underbelly tanks flying over water earlier.

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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Yes I agree.
> 
> But even junk is better than nothing.
> 
> It's interesting that BAF went this route to potentially use these as maritime strike fighters.
> 
> Perhaps that had something to do with the pics of the Mig-29 with underbelly tanks flying over water earlier.


yeah i agree sir better then nothing or f-7

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## Rahil Ahmed

How much would the UK’s old Tranche 1 Eurofighters cost ?


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## Buddhistforlife

Imran Khan said:


> yeah i agree sir better then nothing or f-7


Su-30 is not a junk fighter. Also if you are taking about SU-30Mki then it is an Indian aircraft not purely Russian.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Rahil Ahmed said:


> How much would the UK’s old Tranche 1 Eurofighters cost ?



I heard that RAF are going to scrap/cannibalise their older airframes for parts. They aren't going to sell them off in that case.


----------



## Imran Khan

Buddhistforlife said:


> Su-30 is not a junk fighter. Also if you are taking about SU-30Mki then it is an Indian aircraft not purely Russian.


i did not mentioned su-30 junk in my post sir .



Rahil Ahmed said:


> How much would the UK’s old Tranche 1 Eurofighters cost ?


operational cost is too high to operate them . forget these things .


----------



## Avicenna

Can anyone translate what this video is saying?

It seems to be information rich but I can't understand his proper Bangla.


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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> Can anyone translate what this video is saying?
> 
> It seems to be information rich but I can't understand his proper Bangla.

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## Avicenna

Thanks but I saw that.

I mean is there any other interesting info in that video.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Can anyone translate what this video is saying?
> 
> It seems to be information rich but I can't understand his proper Bangla.


Hot air as per usual. Rest assured that no concrete procurement update shall be broken on YT.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Can anyone translate what this video is saying?
> 
> It seems to be information rich but I can't understand his proper Bangla.


Rant on other youtubers are fake news and he was the first one who claimed j10 would come....
Bdmilitary did that xD
Anyways... he then goes on to say that’s not possible now because of rohynga crisis

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## Avicenna

https://www.defseca.com/procurement...to-purchase-chinese-fighters-in-game-changer/

Around Around in circles we go.......


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## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> Can anyone translate what this video is saying?
> 
> It seems to be information rich but I can't understand his proper Bangla.


This youtube channel is a biased one. This so called defence analyst does not provide realistic information and is more into appeasing the general population of Bangladesh. I think his intention is to increase the number of his youtube subscribers rather then actually discussing defence materials.

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## Avicenna

Buddhistforlife said:


> This youtube channel is a biased one. This so called defence analyst does not provide realistic information and is more into appeasing the general population of Bangladesh. I think his intention is to increase the number of his youtube subscribers rather then actually discussing defence materials.



I don't think so.

From whatever I can understand and from my own knowledge of what he talks about he is pretty reasonable.

Certainly FAR better than some other YT content out there.

Overall, I like his channel.


----------



## Destranator

Good to know that BAF is getting J-20s (the most modern Chinese fighter).

I also like the "*set* to purchase" weasel words just in case BAF yet again fails to find a spine during the next round of bureaucratic scrutiny of the purchase request and gets knocked back.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> Can anyone translate what this video is saying?
> 
> It seems to be information rich but I can't understand his proper Bangla.




You can't understand Bangla 


In short, he is taking the piss on other YouTubers.

He is fact checking some news and discrediting a few channels and their videos on the topic of Bangladesh acquiring the J10C.

He also has a massive ego, this is perceivable through his tone and choice of words.

A Chinese defence website, made a general article about why china should try and export the J10C to Bangladesh, Pakistan and Laos, basically just to capture those markets. It's an editorial piece.

Some Indian defence site put a spin to it, and claimed china China wants to sell J10C to Bangladesh.

Then two Bangladeshi sites namely, South Asian monitor and financial express copied the Indian article but changed article headline to something like Bangladesh is set to buy the J10C.

Following these Bangla news articles, the YouTube channels made their videos.

In this video he goes over this and also states that he has sources who told him about BAFs plan to purchase the J10C all the way back in Jan 2018.

Basically, he is the greatest, most credible Bangladeshi defence YouTuber and he totally doesn't stalk PDF for news and he totally doesn't whore around for subscribers by making videos attacking other channels.



Al-Ansar said:


> View attachment 640769
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know that BAF is getting J-20 (the most modern Chinese fighter).
> 
> I also like the "*set* to purchase" weasel word in case BAF yet again fails to find a spine during the next round of bureaucratic scrutiny for the purchase request and gets knocked back.



Incompetent blobs will screw it up as always.

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## Buddhistforlife

DalalErMaNodi said:


> You can't understand Bangla
> 
> 
> In short, he is taking the piss on other YouTubers.
> 
> He is fact checking some news and discrediting a few channels and their videos on the topic of Bangladesh acquiring the J10C.
> 
> He also has a massive ego, this is perceivable through his tone and choice of words.
> 
> A Chinese defence website, made a general article about why china should try and export the J10C to Bangladesh, Pakistan and Laos, basically just to capture those markets. It's an editorial piece.
> 
> Some Indian defence site put a spin to it, and claimed china China wants to sell J10C to Bangladesh.
> 
> Then two Bangladeshi sites namely, South Asian monitor and financial express copied the Indian article but changed article headline to something like Bangladesh is set to buy the J10C.
> 
> Following these Bangla news articles, the YouTube channels made their videos.
> 
> In this video he goes over this and also states that he has sources who told him about BAFs plan to purchase the J10C all the way back in Jan 2018.
> 
> Basically, he is the greatest, most credible Bangladeshi defence YouTuber and he totally doesn't stalk PDF for news and he totally doesn't whore around for subscribers by making videos attacking other channels.
> 
> 
> 
> Incompetent blobs will screw it up as always.


Bangladesh bought J-10, EFT, F-18, Gripen, F-16, JF-17 and many more. 

I wonder what other aircrafts these so called defence analyst missed?

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> You can't understand Bangla
> 
> 
> In short, he is taking the piss on other YouTubers.
> 
> He is fact checking some news and discrediting a few channels and their videos on the topic of Bangladesh acquiring the J10C.
> 
> He also has a massive ego, this is perceivable through his tone and choice of words.
> 
> A Chinese defence website, made a general article about why china should try and export the J10C to Bangladesh, Pakistan and Laos, basically just to capture those markets. It's an editorial piece.
> 
> Some Indian defence site put a spin to it, and claimed china China wants to sell J10C to Bangladesh.
> 
> Then two Bangladeshi sites namely, South Asian monitor and financial express copied the Indian article but changed article headline to something like Bangladesh is set to buy the J10C.
> 
> Following these Bangla news articles, the YouTube channels made their videos.
> 
> In this video he goes over this and also states that he has sources who told him about BAFs plan to purchase the J10C all the way back in Jan 2018.
> 
> Basically, he is the greatest, most credible Bangladeshi defence YouTuber and he totally doesn't stalk PDF for news and he totally doesn't whore around for subscribers by making videos attacking other channels.
> 
> 
> 
> Incompetent blobs will screw it up as always.



Thanks for that.

I can understand and speak regular Bangla.

Not the formal version with big words.

Also, most of this guys videos are pretty good.

Maybe not so much this one.

Regardless, this BAF acquisition process is kind of annoying.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I can understand and speak regular Bangla.
> 
> Not the formal version with big words.
> 
> Also, most of this guys videos are pretty good.
> 
> Maybe not so much this one.




Lmao, his videos are trash.

He doesn't know squat and talks out of emotion rather than actual taking an issue apart and looking at it constructively.

However, that's just my opinion anyway.

This hero claims India can never invade Bangladesh, but doesn't say how he came to that conclusion.

He's a foolish nationalist.

Also, can someone please teach him how to talk.... For inside he is using vhithore instead of the correct pronunciation bhitore.

I get Bangladeshis mixing up Bs and Vs when speaking English but this legend does it with his Bangla.


----------



## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Lmao, his videos are trash.
> 
> He doesn't know squat and talks out of emotion rather than actual taking an issue apart and looking at it constructively.
> 
> However, that's just my opinion anyway.
> 
> This hero claims India can never invade Bangladesh, but doesn't say how he came to that conclusion.
> 
> He's a foolish nationalist.
> 
> Also, can someone please teach him how to talk.... For inside he is using vhithore instead of the correct pronunciation bhitore.
> 
> I get Bangladeshis mixing up Bs and Vs when speaking English but this legend does it with his Bangla.



Haha.

Like I said before, I've definitely seen worse on YT.

I guess I like his channel because I like his nationalism as well as apparently religiously based worldview.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> Haha.
> 
> Like I said before, I've definitely seen worse on YT.
> 
> I guess I like his channel because I like his nationalism as well as apparently religiously based worldview.





Well, those are the reasons due to which I despise him and his channel, which he uses as an opinion piece instead of an information portal.

Having lived in the "Islamic Hub" of Arabia, let me tell you, a religious world view, religious brotherhood and forging alliances on basis of religion all sound good but in reality they're just a fallacy. There is no religious unity, If there is, I don't see any and I've lived among arabs who are considered the gold standard for muslims and muslim unity.

He made a video about the top secret special force of Bangladesh ODD71 and didn't for once share any information instead he kept on rambling and talking of fables.







Btw if anyone has any information on ODD71, please do share.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I can understand and speak regular Bangla.
> 
> Not the formal version with big words.
> 
> Also, most of this guys videos are pretty good.
> 
> Maybe not so much this one.
> 
> Regardless, this BAF acquisition process is kind of annoying.


This guys bangla is actually informal with lots of metaphors. I used to have trouble understanding but Calcutta speakers helped with that



Avicenna said:


> Haha.
> 
> Like I said before, I've definitely seen worse on YT.
> 
> I guess I like his channel because I like his nationalism as well as apparently religiously based worldview.


Dude wouldn’t last a minute to survive anywhere outside of bd



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Having lived in the "Islamic Hub" of Arabia, let me tell you, a religious world view, religious brotherhood and forging alliances on basis of religion all sound good but in reality they're just a fallacy. There is no religious unity, If there is, I don't see any and I've lived among arabs who are considered the gold standard for muslims and muslim unity.
> 
> 
> Well, those are the reasons due to which I despise him and his channel, which he uses as an opinion piece instead of an information portal.
> 
> He made a video about the top secret special force of Bangladesh ODD71 and didn't for once share any information instead he kept on rambling and talking of fables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw if anyone has any information on ODD71, please do share.


Think how litttle we know of swads... 2000 member unit back in 2008? ODD71 is much more secretive than that, tbh there has been no evidence of their existence... but then army black eagle sniper unit wasn’t known to exist for a long time until they started competing in international games



DalalErMaNodi said:


> He uses big words to sound knowledgeable, because in reality he doesn't know squat. In one video he claimed to have been studying defence matters for a decade, does he mean reading wikipedia pages?


When someone talks like that you reckon he’s in some military academy... I study ww2 German strategies as hobbies, doesn’t mean I’m field marshal Erwin Rommel’s son now



DalalErMaNodi said:


> He uses big words to sound knowledgeable, because in reality he doesn't know squat. In one video he claimed to have been studying defence matters for a decade, does he mean reading wikipedia pages?
> 
> I'd like to see him pronounce the word bodha  tag me if anyone knows what that means.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> This guys bangla is actually informal with lots of metaphors.



He uses big words to sound knowledgeable, because in reality he doesn't know squat. In one video he claimed to have been studying defence matters for a decade, does he mean reading wikipedia pages?

I'd like to see him pronounce the word bodha  tag me if anyone knows what that means.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


>









Lmao, is the use of that word prevalent where you come from? In my area nobody knows what it means and I freely use it for a quick laugh


----------



## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Well, those are the reasons due to which I despise him and his channel, which he uses as an opinion piece instead of an information portal.
> 
> Having lived in the "Islamic Hub" of Arabia, let me tell you, a religious world view, religious brotherhood and forging alliances on basis of religion all sound good but in reality they're just a fallacy. There is no religious unity, If there is, I don't see any and I've lived among arabs who are considered the gold standard for muslims and muslim unity.
> 
> He made a video about the top secret special force of Bangladesh ODD71 and didn't for once share any information instead he kept on rambling and talking of fables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw if anyone has any information on ODD71, please do share.



I see what you are saying but afterall its his YT channel and not a news source.

His main motive is clicks, views, and subcribers.

Also, its sad that there is no religious unity in practice.

But the concept is entirely based on religious basis and is thus worthy to strive for.

Much like, you know on a personal level something like lowering your gaze.

In reality, most of us don't. But we should and at the very least attempt too.

In any case, that's getting way off topic.

As for BAF and J-10C.....there are obviously alot of rumors and talk but its frustrating that there is no confirmed info.

What happened to the supposed 16 MRCA coming?

It's almost halfway past June.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> What happened to the supposed 16 MRCA coming?
> 
> It's almost halfway past June.




SAK alleges due to Corona Virus situation in Italy and in Bangladesh, BAF has had to sideline dual engine MRCA procurement for now, Instead they have fast-tracked the procurement of the single engine F-7 replacements; the J10C.

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> SAK alleges due to Corona Virus situation in Italy and in Bangladesh, BAF has had to sideline dual seat MRCA procurement for now, Instead they have fast-tracked the procurement of the single engine F-7 replacements; the J10C.



Dual engine you mean.

Thats BS though man.

Germany is going ahead with its Eurofighter plans.

Kuwait and Qatar will get theirs also.

BAF is a freakin mess.

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## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> Haha.
> 
> Like I said before, I've definitely seen worse on YT.
> 
> I guess I like his channel because I like his nationalism as well as apparently religiously based worldview.


He does not have a religious based worldview neither he is a nationalist. He is using religion and nationalism to sell his youtube channel. 

Bangladeshi people are attracted towards anything religious and slanted towards nationalism and so many youtubers, celebrities and politicians take advantage of this. 

These youtubers intentionally talk about India invading Bangladesh and other masala topic on India-Bangladesh relation because they know that it will attract viewers.

Most Bangladeshi defence analyst's hot topic is centered around India and Myanmar. They know what sells best.


----------



## Avicenna

Buddhistforlife said:


> He does not have a religious based worldview neither he is a nationalist. He is using religion and nationalism to sell his youtube channel.
> 
> Bangladeshi people are attracted towards anything religious and slanted towards nationalism and so many youtubers, celebrities and politicians take advantage of this.
> 
> These youtubers intentionally talk about India invading Bangladesh and other masala topic on India-Bangladesh relation because they know that it will attract viewers.
> 
> Most Bangladeshi defence analyst's hot topic is centered around India and Myanmar. They know what sells best.



And not the least based on reality?

If you have a YT channel called Bangladesh Defence Update.....why exactly wouldn't you talk about India and Myanmar?

I mean who exactly is the BD armed forces defending against?

Zimbabwe?

Also, in the spectrum of thought that Bengalis have towards nation and religion, he could easily have taken a different stance on things.

An evidence for this is his video on the events of Feb 27th regarding India and Pakistan.

His sympathies seem to lay with Pakistan.

If not for religious reasons then what?


----------



## Buddhistforlife

Avicenna said:


> And not the least based on reality?
> 
> If you have a YT channel called Bangladesh Defence Update.....why exactly wouldn't you talk about India and Myanmar?
> 
> I mean who exactly is the BD armed forces defending against?
> 
> Zimbabwe?
> 
> Also, in the spectrum of thought that Bengalis have towards nation and religion, he could easily have taken a different stance on things.
> 
> An evidence for this is his video on the events of Feb 27th regarding India and Pakistan.
> 
> His sympathies seem to lay with Pakistan.
> 
> If not for religious reasons then what?


What I like about Defenceupdate Bangladesh is that he is not politically biased. He does not pinch BAL like other defence analyst's of Bangladesh.


I think most defence page of Bangladesh are run by followers of BNP or Jamaat Shibir.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Lmao, is the use of that word prevalent where you come from? In my area nobody knows what it means and I freely use it for a quick laugh


no some calcutta dude told me what it means


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> no some calcutta dude told me what it means



Lmfao, I also learnt from a WB guy

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Lmfao, I also learnt from a WB guy


when i first heard the word i imagined kneeding dough


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> when i first heard the word i imagined kneeding dough



Boda ? To me that means folding something.


----------



## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Boda ? To me that means folding something.


Can be applicable metaphor to both depending on perspective


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Can be applicable metaphor to both depending on perspective




bodmaish


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## Rahil Ahmed

So seeing that the J10 is the likely replacement for the F7, how many are we gonna get . Considering the 1 billion dollar loan I’d say between 2-3 squadrons but that does not include any infrastructure . What are the odds we can get production lines and overhaul facilities by 2030?


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## Philip the Arab

No new fighter acquisitions guys?

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## Rahil Ahmed

Philip the Arab said:


> No new fighter acquisitions guys?


No official news as of yet but there have been rumblings about the J10


----------



## Rahil Ahmed

Does anyone know the extent/ effectiveness of Bangladesh's Overhaul Facilities?


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## Michael Corleone

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Does anyone know the extent/ effectiveness of Bangladesh's Overhaul Facilities?


What do you mean by effectiveness? All types except the mig are overhauled in bd.

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> What do you mean by effectiveness? All types except the mig are overhauled in bd.



That - and let me add, without foreign involvement. There are differences between maintaining commercial aircraft (A, C, D checks) and those for fighters/bombers. C-130's. AN-32's and LET 410's are maintained like commercial aircraft, but PT-6's, L-39's, K-8's, F-7's are different how they are maintained. But all are done locally like @Michael Corleone mentioned.

The maintenance in between flight cycles and airbase stops does not need to be very extensive - because it has just landed, presumably working fine, the things that need to be checked primarily involve what has the most chance of decaying during a flight (tires, oil, general wear and tear, etc). Fighters/bombers don't generally fly several legs in a day. Fighters might double/triple turn, and in between each of these flights the maintenance inspection is a much lower requirement than between each day of flying.

*Component Requirements -* Supersonic jet engines need maintenance more often than high bypass commercial engines. They are stressed much more, and work on a much tighter margin of error, thus fighter/bomber aircraft need maintenance more often.

*Age - *Military fighter/bomber aircraft are on average much older than the average commercial aircraft. C-130's are from the 70's, and AN-32's are from the 80's, most of the fighter fleet are from the 90's. Older aircraft require more maintenance, and there is no avoiding it. Between fighters and bombers, they each have different flying styles. Fighter engines work a lot harder than bomber engines, and thus require maintenance more often. Some transports are much larger, and have more systems that can break.

*Ejection Seats - *Most military combat aircraft carry ejection seats, which have a very specific maintenance routine. This may include repacking the associated parachute, and checking to ensure that all components are functional/in good repair.

*Weapons - *The obvious difference between fighters/bombers and commercial airliners is that they carry weapons. This means that there is a software package that needs to be maintained (that controls the weapons), the aircraft hardware needs to be maintained (i.e. bomb bays, missile racks, hard points, etc), and the weapon itself requires building/deconstruction.

*Flight Computer - *Combat aircraft often have tactically specific functions in their flight computer that a commercial airliner would not. There are routines to help calculate bomb trajectory, to link with other combat aircraft and many other military specific tasks that a commercial airliner would not need.
Performance has a slightly higher emphasis than reliability in military aircraft than in commercial aircraft.

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## Michael Corleone

forgot to mention... an 32s are sent to ukraine for overhaul


----------



## ghost250

__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


What did they lock and fire on?


----------



## leonblack08

Michael Corleone said:


> What did they lock and fire on?



Target drones

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## Michael Corleone

leonblack08 said:


> Target drones


Oh, not impressive then... just some subsonic shit


----------



## Tarik Bin Hamza

leonblack08 said:


> Target drones


Banner, not drones.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Oh, not impressive then... just some subsonic shit





Tarik Bin Hamza said:


> Banner, not drones.


Target banners fly as fast as the aircraft they are attached to.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Target banners fly as fast as the aircraft they are attached to.


Aircrafts are limited by drag caused by the banners so...
Laser targeting pods have been used in RAF to simulate missile shots

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## Cryptic_distortion

Can anyone educate me on why we need dual engine fighters? Given Bd is so small areawise, why do we need deep strike capabilities? Why not go for a cheaper single engine option like Gripen or F16? The gripens armed with meteor missile will provide deterrence against Myanmar Su30s and Indian Rafales.
J20 is an overkill for our needs as neither India or Myanmar have stealth fighters.

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## Avicenna

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Can anyone educate me on why we need dual engine fighters? Given Bd is so small areawise, why do we need deep strike capabilities? Why not go for a cheaper single engine option like Gripen or F16? The gripens armed with meteor missile will provide deterrence against Myanmar Su30s and Indian Rafales.
> J20 is an overkill for our needs as neither India or Myanmar have stealth fighters.



Maritime mission is the only rationale I can think of.

Even then what you say is correct.

Bangladesh really needs a modern single seat work horse able to mount modern munitions.

And in decent numbers.

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## Destranator

Single engine fighters will struggle to dogfight against Su-30s.


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## Cryptic_distortion

Al-Ansar said:


> Single engine fighters will struggle to dogfight against Su-30s.


You are right despite what Pakistan claims, a SU 30 would destroy a F16 in a fair fight. 
Given SU 30 s impressive maneuverability and 3 D vectoring, even F18s, F15s Rafales, EFs would also struggle in a dog fight. If the su 30 shoots down a EF, we would lose $100M. I think we can have some sort of credible deterrence as long as we have a platform's and radar capable of delivering long range missiles such as PL 15/Meteor and avoid dog fights.
I just hope BAF makes a sensible decision and not bankrupt the taxpayers. I am kind of glad they are taking their time for Mrca rather than impulse buying SU 30s.

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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> Single engine fighters will struggle to dogfight against Su-30s.



In what way?


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## Michael Corleone

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Can anyone educate me on why we need dual engine fighters? Given Bd is so small areawise, why do we need deep strike capabilities? Why not go for a cheaper single engine option like Gripen or F16? The gripens armed with meteor missile will provide deterrence against Myanmar Su30s and Indian Rafales.
> J20 is an overkill for our needs as neither India or Myanmar have stealth fighters.


Dual engine fighters have the benefit of flying on one engine if the other fails. However it’s more difficult in stall situation



Avicenna said:


> In what way?


He might be thinking of sheer thrust... but I reckon sukhoi bleeds out energy faster!?


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> In what way?


Speed and maneuverability. 

We need EFTs to take Su-30s head-on in WVR engagements.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Speed and maneuverability.
> 
> We need EFTs to take Su-30s head-on in WVR engagements.


True, EFT is just as nimble and better at reaching full thrust

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## Avicenna

Al-Ansar said:


> Speed and maneuverability.
> 
> We need EFTs to take Su-30s head-on in WVR engagements.



That has nothing to do with one versus two engines.

Modern air combat is much more than just speed and maneuverability.

I would say its about the systems in play, situational awareness, communications and effective employment of weapons to achieve the objective.

Case in point Feb 27th.

An F-16 likely took out an Su-30.

And in an exercise Thai Gripens reportedly took out Chinese Su-27s. (Mostly BVR kills)

What BAF needs are numbers.

8 Flankers won't cut it. (And most will likely be not in service in anycase)

Rather a large number of single seat multirole fighters capable of mounting advance BVR and WVR weapons as well as standoff AG munitions.

Coupled with AEW/AWACS, robust communications, and the linkage of data.

Platform X have so and so speed and maneuverability is relatively moot at this point. (the caveat to that is that a platform with superior kinetics may have the advantage in a BVR engagement)

That being said, there are also political considerations at play.

And for BAF there seems to an importance given to the maritime mission given the attention the BN has recieved.

And in that case, two engines definitely are advantageous, if nothing else for safety reasons over water.

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## Avicenna

This thing will eat anything Myanmar flies for lunch.

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## DalalErMaNodi

*KAI keen to export KUH-1 to Indonesia while Bangladesh interested in KT-1
*
Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), South Korea's sole aircraft manufacturer, aims to export the first Korean-made helicopter to Indonesia, a company executive said Wednesday.

KAI has exported 16 T-50 advanced trainer jets and 20 KT-1 basic trainer jets to Indonesia in total. It has not achieved any deal from overseas to export a Korean-made helicopter.

"We are stepping up efforts to sign a deal to export the Surion (KUH-1) transport utility helicopter to Indonesia. We see many business opportunities in Indonesia as it was the first country that purchased the KT-1 and the T-50 planes," KAI Vice President and General Manager Lee Bong-keun told reporters on the sidelines of a promotional event held in Sacheon, 440 kilometers south of Seoul.

This photo taken on Feb. 6, 2020, and provided by Korea Aerospace Industries Co. shows a Surion (KUH-1) helicopter delivered to the police. 

KAI is also targeting winning additional deals in Malaysia, Columbia and Peru as they have shown much interest in its aircraft products, Lee said.

"Malaysia is planning to approve a five-year economic development plan, which includes a large-scale aircraft purchase program, in October, though the approval is likely to be affected by the new coronavirus outbreak," he said.

Earlier in the day, KAI signed an agreement with the South Gyeongsang provincial government and the Human Resources Development Service of Korea (HRDK) to help Korean companies hire foreigners from the 16 countries under the HRDK's employment permit system (EPS), KAI said in a statement.

Under the EPS system, workers from the 16 nations that have purchased Korean-made aircraft will be given equal treatment in terms of wages and other benefits at Korean companies, the statement said.

The 16 countries include China, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Mongolia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Cambodia, Laos and the Philippines.

Ambassadors and officials from the 16 countries attended the promotional event held at KAI's headquarters here. KAI focused on promoting the Surion helicopter.

Asked if Indonesia has an interest in purchasing the Surion helicopter, Puji Basuki, first secretary of the Indonesian Embassy in Korea, said his country will see if it can use the helicopter either for the military or a public purpose after receiving a proposal from Korea.

*H.E. Abida Islam, Bangladeshi ambassador to Korea, said the country will consider placing an order for the KT-1 planes.*







KAI has exported a total of 148 trainer jets worth US$3.1 billion -- 64 T-50 advanced trainer jets worth $2.4 billion and 84 KT-1 basic trainer jets worth $700 million -- to countries such as Indonesia, Iraq, Thailand, Turkey, Peru and the Philippines since its foundation in 1999.

In the January-March period, KAI's net profit jumped 87 percent to 79.5 billion won (US$65 million) from 42.5 billion won in the year-ago period.

Payments from the Seoul government for the Korean fighter jet project were made in the first quarter, and the Thai government's payments for part of the total cost of eight exported T-50TH advanced jet trainers were also reflected in the bottom line, KAI said.

Operating profits soared 98 percent to 66.1 billion won in the first quarter from 33.4 billion won a year ago. Sales rose 31 percent to 827.7 billion won from 630.9 billion won during the same period.

Source


If they get ToT, I would wager this what BAC would manufacture to meet Hasina's request of making a prototype by 2022, but more realistic timeline would be 2025.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> *KAI keen to export KUH-1 to Indonesia while Bangladesh interested in KT-1
> *
> Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), South Korea's sole aircraft manufacturer, aims to export the first Korean-made helicopter to Indonesia, a company executive said Wednesday.
> 
> KAI has exported 16 T-50 advanced trainer jets and 20 KT-1 basic trainer jets to Indonesia in total. It has not achieved any deal from overseas to export a Korean-made helicopter.
> 
> "We are stepping up efforts to sign a deal to export the Surion (KUH-1) transport utility helicopter to Indonesia. We see many business opportunities in Indonesia as it was the first country that purchased the KT-1 and the T-50 planes," KAI Vice President and General Manager Lee Bong-keun told reporters on the sidelines of a promotional event held in Sacheon, 440 kilometers south of Seoul.
> 
> This photo taken on Feb. 6, 2020, and provided by Korea Aerospace Industries Co. shows a Surion (KUH-1) helicopter delivered to the police.
> 
> KAI is also targeting winning additional deals in Malaysia, Columbia and Peru as they have shown much interest in its aircraft products, Lee said.
> 
> "Malaysia is planning to approve a five-year economic development plan, which includes a large-scale aircraft purchase program, in October, though the approval is likely to be affected by the new coronavirus outbreak," he said.
> 
> Earlier in the day, KAI signed an agreement with the South Gyeongsang provincial government and the Human Resources Development Service of Korea (HRDK) to help Korean companies hire foreigners from the 16 countries under the HRDK's employment permit system (EPS), KAI said in a statement.
> 
> Under the EPS system, workers from the 16 nations that have purchased Korean-made aircraft will be given equal treatment in terms of wages and other benefits at Korean companies, the statement said.
> 
> The 16 countries include China, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Mongolia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Cambodia, Laos and the Philippines.
> 
> Ambassadors and officials from the 16 countries attended the promotional event held at KAI's headquarters here. KAI focused on promoting the Surion helicopter.
> 
> Asked if Indonesia has an interest in purchasing the Surion helicopter, Puji Basuki, first secretary of the Indonesian Embassy in Korea, said his country will see if it can use the helicopter either for the military or a public purpose after receiving a proposal from Korea.
> 
> *H.E. Abida Islam, Bangladeshi ambassador to Korea, said the country will consider placing an order for the KT-1 planes.*
> 
> View attachment 642972
> 
> 
> KAI has exported a total of 148 trainer jets worth US$3.1 billion -- 64 T-50 advanced trainer jets worth $2.4 billion and 84 KT-1 basic trainer jets worth $700 million -- to countries such as Indonesia, Iraq, Thailand, Turkey, Peru and the Philippines since its foundation in 1999.
> 
> In the January-March period, KAI's net profit jumped 87 percent to 79.5 billion won (US$65 million) from 42.5 billion won in the year-ago period.
> 
> Payments from the Seoul government for the Korean fighter jet project were made in the first quarter, and the Thai government's payments for part of the total cost of eight exported T-50TH advanced jet trainers were also reflected in the bottom line, KAI said.
> 
> Operating profits soared 98 percent to 66.1 billion won in the first quarter from 33.4 billion won a year ago. Sales rose 31 percent to 827.7 billion won from 630.9 billion won during the same period.
> 
> Source
> 
> 
> If they get ToT, I would wager this what BAC would manufacture to meet Hasina's request of making a prototype by 2022, but more realistic timeline would be 2025.


Given the statements by the people of the aviation university. I reckon this was long planned and now they’ll buy a token amount of 24 and manufacture in bd? Who knows
Atleast better than that death trap pt 6

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=672672486643790


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## Tom-tom

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=672672486643790
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 642997
> 
> View attachment 642998



I can anyone translate written bangla into English please as I can't read..

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## Michael Corleone

Tom-tom said:


> I can anyone translate written bangla into English please as I can't read..


PM’s defence ministry has confirmed the purchase of UAV, 2 ordered were placed in 2 seperate fiscal years and each system has 3-4 drones controlled by a single command system. They can launch various guided and unguided weapons and conduct surveillance operations

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> PM’s defence ministry has confirmed the purchase of UAV, 2 ordered were placed in 2 seperate fiscal years and each system has 3-4 drones controlled by a single command system. They can launch various guided and unguided weapons and conduct surveillance operations




PM is the defence minister.

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## Bilal9

DalalErMaNodi said:


> PM is the defence minister.



Most lucrative portfolio. Not to be given to any other creature.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Most lucrative portfolio. Not to be given to any other creature.





https://imgur.com/a/yzYJeVm

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> https://imgur.com/a/yzYJeVm

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## The Ronin

H. I. Abida, ambassador or Bangladesh in South Korea, in the visit to Korea Aerspace Industries- KAI along with the ambassadors of other 15 countries. In this visit, Bangladesh showed positive attitude to the aerial platform of KAI, specially KT-1 basic trainer aircraft.

"On this day, Ambassadors and diplomatic officials from 16 countries in Southeast Asia visited the assembly complex. KAI started marketing by inviting diplomatic officials directly to the Sichuan headquarters, as an international international defense exhibition was not held due to a new coronavirus infection. According to KAI, the reactions of foreign officials from each country were positive. In particular, "Bangladesh showed great interest," he said."

https://news.joins.com/article/2380...t53u6voJHw-B0CJX4tg2mW0Ks0G8SJQzrDfYTh6BVWSSQ

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## DalalErMaNodi



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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 643893


no no no please this will made me buy more panadol now


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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> no no no please this will made me buy more panadol now




This is probably not true but EFT and J-10c are the most likely the new toys that BAF will get soon.

BAF themselves are the reason that they don't any new jets, bad leadership.

Meanwhile, navy and army procuring new stuff every now and then without any issues.

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> This is probably not true but EFT and J-10c are the most likely the new toys that BAF will get soon.
> 
> BAF themselves are the reason that they don't any new jets, bad leadership.
> 
> Meanwhile, navy and army procuring new stuff every now and then without any issues.


More then jets we have paid for bandwirth now this must be stopped forever

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## Bilal9

Imran Khan said:


> More then jets we have paid for bandwirth now this must be stopped forever



You have paid for entertainment. That is all we do here, armchair defense expert-ism. No one is complaining - least of all me.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> This is probably not true but EFT and J-10c are the most likely the new toys that BAF will get soon.
> 
> BAF themselves are the reason that they don't any new jets, bad leadership.
> 
> Meanwhile, navy and army procuring new stuff every now and then without any issues.



I don't see a problem with 2023 delivery date. China has her own AF needs to meet first. I don't remember if our J-10's will come with new version of Chinese jet engines. Getting lazy to research....

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## Imran Khan

Bilal9 said:


> You have paid for entertainment. That is all we do here, armchair defense expert-ism. No one is complaining - least of all me.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see a problem with 2023 delivery date. China has her own AF needs to meet first. I don't remember if our J-10's will come with new version of Chinese jet engines. Getting lazy to research....


i beg to haseena aunty this should be finished now we can not give our JAWANI to this


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## Avicenna

@Michael Corleone 

What's wrong with KT-1 for BAF?

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> What's wrong with KT-1 for BAF?



There are many comparable aircraft available globally, as listed below, some of them not much more expensive than KT-1. Also maybe the govt. is looking for a ToT deal, and the Koreans did not offer one. It is well known that KT-1 is a copy of the Pilatus PC-7 (predecessor to PC-9 shown below). Lot of companies globally are making more trainers nowadays with more advanced design than the KT-1. The Orlik is one....and so is the new design of the Tucano (same name but 'super' added to the name).


Beechcraft T-6 Texan II
Embraer EMB 312 Tucano
Grob G 120TP
Pilatus PC-7
Pilatus PC-9
PZL-130 Orlik
Short Tucano
Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano

TAI Hürkuş
Fuji T-7

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> What's wrong with KT-1 for BAF?


Hurkus

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> I don't see a problem with 2023 delivery date. China has her own AF needs to meet first. I don't remember if our J-10's will come with new version of Chinese jet engines. Getting lazy to research


Since CE variant is the export version, so yes. Unless you go out of your way and order those Russian Saturn engines.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Since CE variant is the export version, so yes. Unless you go out of your way and order those Russian Saturn engines.



So is it real this time?

About J-10 that is?


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> So is it real this time?
> 
> About J-10 that is?


The govt will eventually announce if deal signed. Don't get your hopes up just yet.


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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Since CE variant is the export version, so yes. Unless you go out of your way and order those Russian Saturn engines.



By the looks of it, NPO Saturn might go out of business at some point. Not a good move...


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> So is it real this time?
> 
> About J-10 that is?


I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Wait for anirban



Bilal9 said:


> By the looks of it, NPO Saturn might go out of business at some point. Not a good move...


Woah. I really thought sukhois contracts to them are working for them

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## Zarvan

Bangladesh I really hope doesn't select one or two squadrons of J 10 C and EF it should be more than 100 each.


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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Wait for anirban
> 
> 
> Woah. I really thought sukhois contracts to them are working for them



If the Chinese start being independent in aero engines, then the Russians' own needs for defence (given they won't sell many SU-57's) won't keep NPO Saturn afloat. Russia needs customers, and Indians are turning to Western sources too. Syria, Algeria, Egypt and Africa OK for now, but who knows how long?

Already a lot of engine manufacturers in Ukraine (main source for Russian aero engines) turning to Western technology licensing or simply gone bankrupt. Look at Antonov. Where it was twenty years ago, and where it is now.

"In 2014, the Antonov produced and delivered only two An-158 airplanes.[17] This trend continued onto 2015, producing one An-148 and one An-158.[18] In 2016, no aircraft were produced or delivered to clients, though the company has plans to start up production in 2017.[18]"

Which means the Ivchenko/Lotarev/Progress designed and Motor-Sich produced engines have almost no demand. Chinese have bought majority stakes and will soon transfer tooling to China (ChongQing).

You might know better though.

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## Destranator

Zarvan said:


> Bangladesh I really hope doesn't select one or two squadrons of J 10 C and EF it should be more than 100 each.


We wish.
Can't afford it.
Best case scenario by 2030 is 16 EFTs + 32 J-10s or 48 J-10s.

Some Bangladeshi members will speculate better to feel good but won't materialise.

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## Zarvan

Al-Ansar said:


> We wish.
> Can't afford it.
> Most likely best case scenario by 2030 is 16 EFTs + 32 J-10s or 48 J-10s.
> 
> Some Bangladeshi members will speculate better to feel good but won't materialise.


Your economy is bigger than ours. You can easily afford a 250 Fighter Jet Air Force but it seem your leadership wants a disaster to wake them up.

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## Destranator

Zarvan said:


> Your economy is bigger than ours. You can easily afford a 250 Fighter Jet Air Force but it seem your leadership wants a disaster to wake them up.


I agree that we are run by morons. The AF has been neglected for decades now.

The current govt is willing to spend on defence (as evident by rapid modernisation of BA and BN) but need to push BAF leadership hard to address their own requirements.

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## Avicenna

Zarvan said:


> Bangladesh I really hope doesn't select one or two squadrons of J 10 C and EF it should be more than 100 each.



Won't ever be in those numbers.

Despite what FG2030 says I can't imagine a BAF more than a few squadrons.

So fanboi's guess......total of about 4 or 5 full strength squadrons?

Maybe 16 times 5 equals about 80 planes.

I would be ecstatic if even that were to happen.

So maybe 48 J-10, 16 Typhoon, and 13+3 Yak-130?

Adds up to 80.

Anymore would be icing on the cake.

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## Indos

Avicenna said:


> Won't ever be in those numbers.
> 
> Despite what FG2030 says I can't imagine a BAF more than a few squadrons.
> 
> So fanboi's guess......total of about 4 or 5 full strength squadrons?
> 
> Maybe 16 times 5 equals about 80 planes.
> 
> I would be ecstatic if even that were to happen.
> 
> So maybe 48 J-10, 16 Typhoon, and 13+3 Yak-130?
> 
> Adds up to 80.
> 
> Anymore would be icing on the cake.



How many UAV does Bangladesh Armed Force have ?


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> If the Chinese start being independent in aero engines, then the Russians' own needs for defence (given they won't sell many SU-57's) won't keep NPO Saturn afloat. Russia needs customers, and Indians are turning to Western sources too. Syria, Algeria, Egypt and Africa OK for now, but who knows how long?
> 
> Already a lot of engine manufacturers in Ukraine (main source for Russian aero engines) turning to Western technology licensing or simply gone bankrupt. Look at Antonov. Where it was twenty years ago, and where it is now.
> 
> "In 2014, the Antonov produced and delivered only two An-158 airplanes.[17] This trend continued onto 2015, producing one An-148 and one An-158.[18] In 2016, no aircraft were produced or delivered to clients, though the company has plans to start up production in 2017.[18]"
> 
> Which means the Ivchenko/Lotarev/Progress designed and Motor-Sich produced engines have almost no demand. Chinese have bought majority stakes and will soon transfer tooling to China (ChongQing).
> 
> You might know better though.


Idk what the Russians will do, probably will keep them afloat with govt subsidies just like mig. 
Antonov is a different case, corruption ruined that company 
Not like that’s not present in Russian companies... but their govt may just invest in them for domestic needs



Zarvan said:


> Bangladesh I really hope doesn't select one or two squadrons of J 10 C and EF it should be more than 100 each.


Bruh, 100 of EFT? We ain’t that rich


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## Cryptic_distortion

Let us get our first squadron of either j10 or EFT first, at this point I am starting to have doubts that we will get anything. It seems like the MRCA program did not make any progress since 2016. In a hostile situation 5/6 SU 30s will destroy our 8 Mig 29s and F7s.
I like the idea of BAF of sticking to one/ two platforms(maybe sell the migs for more j10s or EFT? )
I am very curious to know about IAF's rationale for operating so many different platforms, it seems like a supply chain nightmare!


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## mb444

EFT deal not done, the sticking point seems to be timing rather than funds.

RAF can not deliver EFTs in the timeline that BAF needs. I have tried to establish if its new or old EFT that BAF is negotiating on. As surprising as it sounds it seems like BAF is seeking new. BD is also seeking somekind of awac capacity from RAF as well. Not sure what that means but reporting as i heard it.

Personally i would wait for EFT.....

The deal is for 8 EFT each delivered in 3 trances. There will be couple of years between tranches. No TOT but maintance and overhauling capacity to be established in BD from the very outset of the deal.

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## Cryptic_distortion

mb444 said:


> EFT deal not done, the sticking point seems to be timing rather than funds.
> 
> RAF can not deliver EFTs in the timeline that BAF needs. I have tried to establish if its new or old EFT that BAF is negotiating on. As surprising as it sounds it seems like BAF is seeking new.
> 
> Personally i would wait for EFT.....


OH wow don't the new ones cost almost as much as F-35s? Is Rafale still being considered? I remember the French defense minister making a visit in March.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> EFT deal not done, the sticking point seems to be timing rather than funds.
> 
> RAF can not deliver EFTs in the timeline that BAF needs. I have tried to establish if its new or old EFT that BAF is negotiating on. As surprising as it sounds it seems like BAF is seeking new. BD is also seeking somekind of awac capacity from RAF as well. Not sure what that means but reporting as i heard it.
> 
> Personally i would wait for EFT.....
> 
> The deal is for 8 EFT each delivered in 3 trances. There will be couple of years between tranches. No TOT but maintance and overhauling capacity to be established in BD from the very outset of the deal.



For a total of how many EFT? 16?


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## mb444

Cryptic_distortion said:


> OH wow don't the new ones cost almost as much as F-35s? Is Rafale still being considered? I remember the French defense minister making a visit in March.


BAF would prefer to deal with RAF and UK for historical reasons. Nothing wrong with Rafale but given indians have it, it would make sense for BAF to go for EFT.

The French came to sound out BD. If EFT falls through then F16 and Raffle presumably back in play.

BAF has terrible leadership.... unfortunately we should factor them messing things up at the last moment so personally i would take everything with a bucketload of salt until i see actual pics of EFT in BAF colours.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> For a total of how many EFT? 16?


24 EFT... 2 sqd under BAF definition of 12 per sqd i believe....


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## Buddhistforlife

Guys do you think it is a good idea for BAF to buy F-16 from usa and get TOT for it. I mean Turkey has only two aircraft. They have few F 4 phantom and more than 200 F 16. If we can follow Turkish air force model and produce hundreds of F 16 that would also be good. F 16 is a good but cheap aircraft.

@Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin @bluesky @BDforever


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## Cryptic_distortion

Buddhistforlife said:


> Guys do you think it is a good idea for BAF to buy F-16 from usa and get TOT for it. I mean Turkey has only two aircraft. They have few F 4 phantom and more than 200 F 16. If we can follow Turkish air force model and produce hundreds of F 16 that would also be good. F 16 is a good but cheap aircraft.
> 
> @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin @bluesky @BDforever


BAF made up its mind that it needs twin engines for the MRCA so that rules out Gripen and F16.
J10c with PL15 might be cheaper option compared to f16. Not sure if PL15 is integrated to the J10c yet.


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## The Ronin

If the news is true then EFT order will be delayed so BAF went for J-10CE. Deal is already signed and delivery expected in 2023.



Cryptic_distortion said:


> Not sure if PL15 is integrated to the J10c yet.

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## Tom-tom

The Ronin said:


> If the news is true then EFT order will be delayed so BAF went for J-10CE. Deal is already signed and delivery expected in 2023.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 644079
> 
> 
> View attachment 644080





How many j10 ce are on their way?


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## The Ronin

Tom-tom said:


> How many j10 ce are on their way?



President already stated that 16 are being procured though 48 should be the requirement. Don't get your hopes high. Unless govt/supplier doesn't announce it or you see with your own eyes, all are just rumors and speculation for now. Though something has been ordered for sure as stated by govt. Waiting to hear something before or during Zuhai air show.

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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> Guys do you think it is a good idea for BAF to buy F-16 from usa and get TOT for it. I mean Turkey has only two aircraft. They have few F 4 phantom and more than 200 F 16. If we can follow Turkish air force model and produce hundreds of F 16 that would also be good. F 16 is a good but cheap aircraft.
> 
> @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin @bluesky @BDforever


Nope. End of life trash


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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> President already stated that 16 are on order though 48 should be the requirement. Don't get your hopes high. Unless govt/supplier doesn't announce it or you see with your own eyes, all are just rumors and speculation for now. Though something has been ordered for sure as stated by govt. Waiting to hear something before or during Zuhai air show.


The President said 16 are being procured. Chances are that a deal is yet to be signed.

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> It was supposed to be done in 2019-20 FY. Would it be wrong to assume it's already signed?


It's BAF. Never assume.

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## Destranator

Is there any fighter jet with mutiple passenger seats that BAF can use to ferry passengers for UN?
BAF would procure them in weeks.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Al-Ansar said:


> Is there any fighter jet with mutiple passenger seats that BAF can use to ferry passengers for UN?
> BAF would procure them in weeks.




Get F-35 and stow the peacekeepers in the internal weapons bay.

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## Michael Corleone

Seriously though, guys was asking this real state company about their plots in purbachal and they mentioned Bangladesh airforce bought 1000 plots from them in the residential areas.... now we know why there’s no fighter jets still

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## The Ronin

Sorry. I mistakenly posted it in "Navy" thread.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=169862937906551

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## bd_4_ever

I am a simple man.
I have interest in defense matters.
I see we still didn't buy jets.
I feel sad.

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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> I am a simple man.
> I have interest in defense matters.
> I see we still didn't buy jets.
> I feel sad.


We bought 1000 residential plots in the new city though

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## BHarwana

gom poa said:


> PDF jail amare dhore rakte parbe na


PDF জেল অবশ্যই আপনাকে ধরে রাখবে

I have cleared the thread. Now please don't derail military related threads people come here to get info. There is a chill thread for you to discuss thing go there. People have interests to get certain info respect that plz.

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## alphapak

If BAF does go for the EFT then will they the meteor missiles with it?
Also with the J10C will they get the PL15 missiles?


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## BDforever

alphapak said:


> If BAF does go for the EFT then will they the meteor missiles with it?
> Also with the J10C will they get the PL15 missiles?


No Idea, we just hope


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## Michael Corleone

BHarwana said:


> PDF জেল অবশ্যই আপনাকে ধরে রাখবে
> 
> I have cleared the thread. Now please don't derail military related threads people come here to get info. There is a chill thread for you to discuss thing go there. People have interests to get certain info respect that plz.


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## leonblack08

The No 5 Defenders squadron with their F-7 BG

Source: The Bangladesh Defence Analyst (DEFSECA.com)

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## ghost250

Italian defence giant Leonardo installed the longest range early warning and air defence radar for the Bangladesh Air Force in the coastal region of Barisal near the Bay of Bengal.

Altitude: 30 km
Range: 500+ km
#defseca

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## bd_4_ever

Michael Corleone said:


> We bought 1000 residential plots in the new city though



To house 1000 BAF fat officers?

Sounds like a legit air force.


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## bluesky

BHarwana said:


> PDF জেল অবশ্যই আপনাকে ধরে রাখবে


Non topic, but thanks for this part in Bengali. Seems, you were born and brought up in Dhaka/east Pakistan.


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## DalalErMaNodi

ghost250 said:


> Italian defence giant Leonardo installed the longest range early warning and air defence radar for the Bangladesh Air Force in the coastal region of Barisal near the Bay of Bengal.
> 
> Altitude: 30 km
> Range: 500+ km
> #defseca
> 
> View attachment 644966




Doesn't the location of this installation count as 'sensitive' info ?


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## Michael Corleone

bd_4_ever said:


> To house 1000 BAF fat officers?
> 
> Sounds like a legit air force.


They’ll house anti aircraft toy gun events

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## Destranator

bluesky said:


> Non topic, but thanks for this part in Bengali. Seems, you were born and brought up in Dhaka/east Pakistan.



Plenty of softwares available to translate Bengali written in English alphabet.

Try this one for example:
https://www.easybengalityping.com

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Doesn't the location of this installation count as 'sensitive' info ?


Not really since if so was the case, the purchase announcement wouldn’t have happened, nor would we see pictures of installation or know anything about it
Ofc, non clearance personnel and civilians wouldn’t be let close to this thing, ever

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## Arthur

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Doesn't the location of this installation count as 'sensitive' info ?


Mr. Damra always had a thing or two for stealing & publishing sensitive photos that were only meant to be enjoyed by military brass. He does it to make him look like somewhat important. 



Michael Corleone said:


> Not really since if so was the case, the purchase announcement wouldn’t have happened, nor would we see pictures of installation or know anything about it
> Ofc, non clearance personnel and civilians wouldn’t be let close to this thing, ever


My friend, declaring a purchase & publishing the photograph or sat location of the installation on public forum is entirely two different matter. 
First one is called transparency & second one is espionage. OSNIT intelligence works exclusively in these premise. 

From the pictures he published even the dumbest enemy pilot can easily calculate the co-ordinates of the installation & use SOM to attack.
Perimeter security won't save someone from an missile attack from standoff range.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Arthur said:


> Mr. Damra always had a thing or two for stealing & publishing sensitive photos that were only meant to be enjoyed by military brass. He does it to make him look like somewhat important.
> 
> 
> My friend, declaring a purchase & publishing the photograph or sat location of the installation on public forum is entirely two different matter.
> First one is called transparency & second one is espionage. OSNIT intelligence works exclusively in these premise.
> 
> From the pictures he published even the dumbest enemy pilot can easily calculate the co-ordinates of the installation & use SOM to attack.
> Perimeter security won't save someone from an missile attack from standoff range.




My thoughts exactly. 

Thank you for addressing that, I was feeling too lazy to type out my concerns.

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## tarpitz

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Doesn't the location of this installation count as 'sensitive' info ?








(22.7727946, 90.3040901)
Good job.

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## Arthur

DalalErMaNodi said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> Thank you for addressing that, I was feeling too lazy to type out my concerns.


I am actually disappointed BAF choosed stationary version of the radar. I hoped they would go for the limited mobility version.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Arthur said:


> I am actually disappointed BAF choosed stationary version of the radar. I hoped they would go for the limited mobility version.




Apparently they also procured the Kronos Land system as well.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> My friend, declaring a purchase & publishing the photograph or sat location of the installation on public forum is entirely two different matter.
> First one is called transparency & second one is espionage. OSNIT intelligence works exclusively in these premise.
> 
> From the pictures he published even the dumbest enemy pilot can easily calculate the co-ordinates of the installation & use SOM to attack.
> Perimeter security won't save someone from an missile attack from standoff range


Agreed 
I wonder with the introduction of ADIZ, what sort of layered air defence do they plan to have since we know very little about it, HISAR O and FM-90s would still fall under short range air defence. I am curious about mid/ long range SAM acquisition... haven’t heard much about ly-80e since 2-3 years ago

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## leonblack08

Arthur said:


> I am actually disappointed BAF choosed stationary version of the radar. I hoped they would go for the limited mobility version.



Don't we need both though? In terms of constant coverage and greater range, you need these bigger and fixed radars. For example, the Kronos Land that we procured has a surveillance range of 250 km, whereas this one has 500 km.

But must agree, they shouldn't have posted the locations. I mean what's the point?

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## DalalErMaNodi

leonblack08 said:


> Don't we need both though? In terms of constant coverage and greater range, you need these bigger and fixed radars. For example, the Kronos Land that we procured has a surveillance range of 250 km, whereas this one has 500 km.
> 
> But must agree, they shouldn't have posted the locations. I mean what's the point?




The point is they're morons, claiming to be hot shot "Defence Analysts".

Pffff, makes me laugh.

These guys ought to take those photos out of circulation and desist from releasing sensitive information from here on out.

@Michael Corleone any chance of getting SAK to do Bangladesh; our country, a favour ?

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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> Agreed
> I wonder with the introduction of ADIZ, what sort of layered air defence do they plan to have since we know very little about it, HISAR O and FM-90s would still fall under short range air defence. I am curious about mid/ long range SAM acquisition... haven’t heard much about ly-80e since 2-3 years ago


Most probably there is a waiting queue involved. Both China & Pakistan has ordered LY 80 in good number. 
I am hearing FK 3 SAM might be ordered. Nothing concrete yet.


leonblack08 said:


> Don't we need both though? In terms of constant coverage and greater range, you need these bigger and fixed radars. For example, the Kronos Land that we procured has a surveillance range of 250 km, whereas this one has 500 km.
> 
> But must agree, they shouldn't have posted the locations. I mean what's the point?


AFAIK they are going to put Kronos Land as a gap filler radar. High mobility is a must for that. 
And for long rage radars, they need not be stationary. A platform that is at least low mobility, meaning transportable by a transport aircraft, gives edge in survivality. In a small country like BD, static units are too vulnerable to anti radiation & SOM weapons.

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## ghost250

tarpitz said:


> View attachment 645034
> 
> 
> (22.7727946, 90.3040901)
> Good job.



what u gonna do?throw sum burmese army sandels at those installations which ur troops frquently use??


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> The point is they're morons, claiming to be hot shot "Defence Analysts".
> 
> Pffff, makes me laugh.
> 
> These guys ought to take those photos out of circulation and desist from releasing sensitive information from here on out.
> 
> @Michael Corleone any chance of getting SAK to do Bangladesh; our country, a favour ?


If he could, we would already have had fighters



Arthur said:


> Most probably there is a waiting queue involved. Both China & Pakistan has ordered LY 80 in good number.
> I am hearing FK 3 SAM might be ordered. Nothing concrete yet.


I would be surprised if they wasted money on that vintage

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## monitor

__ https://www.facebook.com/




A Bangladeshi Air Force Pilot flying US P-8 Poseidon ASW aircraft in Join Exercise .


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## monitor

The Ministry Of Defence Plays the Vital role along procuring necessary ammenities along G2G (govt to govt) policy and Business Deals..It has been a long period it has been circulating in MOD website that Bangladesh Air Force has already procured 1 Unit Selex Ex Falco UAV under G2G from Leonardo.

To be honest On these matter Bangladesh Has been operating these platform in UN mission for surveillance and security purpose for a time now.

so,its highly assumable,that single unit will also be sent to UN mission or has already been procured for that purpose only.

Selex EX Falco has an Endurance of around 15 hrs with a payload of 100 kgs,a brief description will be published on www.defres360.com

#From news,analysis to updates,pls bookmark www.defres360.com on your PC or Phone Browser..

#TanVir

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## Michael Corleone

#DEFSECA EXCLUSIVE: ২০১৯ এ সংসদ অধিবেশনে গণপ্রজাতন্ত্রী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের মহামান্য রাস্ট্রপতির দেয়া এক বিবৃতি থেকে আমরা জানতে পেরেছি, বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী অবশেষে ২৪টি নতুন বেসিক ট্রেইনার এয়ারক্রাফট কেনার মাধ্যমে দীর্ঘদিন ধরে আমাদের বৈমানিকদের প্রথম প্রেমিকা পিটি-৬ বিমানকে রিপ্লেস করার কাজ শুরু করতে যাচ্ছে। বর্তমান বিশ্বে প্রায় ৪টি বেসিক মিলিটারি ট্রেইনার বিমান বেশ আলোচিত।সুইজারল্যান্ডের পিসি-২১, অস্ট্রিয়ান ডায়ামন্ড ৪০, তুরস্কের হুরকুস এবং কোরিয়ার কেটি-১। সুপার টুকেনো ৩১৪ এর দাপট সম্ভবত শেষ!

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/বাংলাদেশের-নতুন-বেসিক-ট্/

#DEFSECA #BangladeshAirForce
Budget passed for pt-6 replacement.... turkey is seriously getting a lot of purchase orders from bd lately

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## Avicenna




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## The Ronin

Arthur said:


> My friend, declaring a purchase & publishing the photograph or sat location of the installation on public forum is entirely two different matter.
> First one is called transparency & second one is espionage. OSNIT intelligence works exclusively in these premise.
> 
> From the pictures he published even the dumbest enemy pilot can easily calculate the co-ordinates of the installation & use SOM to attack.
> Perimeter security won't save someone from an missile attack from standoff range.



Finding shouldn't be very hard even if someone doesn't post anything on social media. Adversaries can locate it with satellite and spy network inside the country if they want.

Multi-layered air defense and jammer should be able to thwart any aerial attack. (if we get any) 



Arthur said:


> I am hearing FK 3 SAM might be ordered. Nothing concrete yet.



FK-3 was shown in army's poster only once long time ago and that's it. They didn't show it in last MHD. I think LR-SAM topic shouldn't be discussed for now. Military has plenty options for it, at least two more will be ready including Turkish HISAR-U/Siper. If army really goes for HISAR-O right now then our military can/might also select HISAR-U/Siper later.

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> Finding shouldn't be very hard even if someone doesn't post anything on social media. Adversaries can locate it with satellite and spy network inside the country if they want.
> 
> *Multi-layered air defense and jammer should be able to thwart any aerial attack.* (if we get any)
> 
> 
> 
> FK-3 was shown in army's poster only once long time ago and that's it. They didn't show it in last MHD. I think LR-SAM topic shouldn't be discussed for now. Military has plenty options for it, at least two more will be ready including Turkish HISAR-U/Siper. If army really goes for HISAR-O right now then our military can/might also select HISAR-U/Siper later.








army/airforce got it early in this year(dont knw about specification though)

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## BlackViking

Hello guys I'm new here...
Baf is a hot topic now a days..so thought introduce myself here 
Any lights on our mrca procurement

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## Avicenna

BlackViking said:


> Hello guys I'm new here...
> Baf is a hot topic now a days..so thought introduce myself here
> Any lights on our mrca procurement



Welcome!

And no idea!

But I would suggest reading through the 586 pages on this thread to get some understanding of that question.

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## BlackViking

Avicenna said:


> Welcome!
> 
> And no idea!
> 
> But I would suggest reading through the 586 pages on this thread to get some understanding of that question.


Ow I did check those a long time ago..I used to visit pdf as a guest

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> #DEFSECA EXCLUSIVE: ২০১৯ এ সংসদ অধিবেশনে গণপ্রজাতন্ত্রী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের মহামান্য রাস্ট্রপতির দেয়া এক বিবৃতি থেকে আমরা জানতে পেরেছি, বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী অবশেষে ২৪টি নতুন বেসিক ট্রেইনার এয়ারক্রাফট কেনার মাধ্যমে দীর্ঘদিন ধরে আমাদের বৈমানিকদের প্রথম প্রেমিকা পিটি-৬ বিমানকে রিপ্লেস করার কাজ শুরু করতে যাচ্ছে। বর্তমান বিশ্বে প্রায় ৪টি বেসিক মিলিটারি ট্রেইনার বিমান বেশ আলোচিত।সুইজারল্যান্ডের পিসি-২১, অস্ট্রিয়ান ডায়ামন্ড ৪০, তুরস্কের হুরকুস এবং কোরিয়ার কেটি-১। সুপার টুকেনো ৩১৪ এর দাপট সম্ভবত শেষ!
> 
> https://www.defseca.com/procurements/বাংলাদেশের-নতুন-বেসিক-ট্/
> 
> #DEFSECA #BangladeshAirForce
> Budget passed for pt-6 replacement.... turkey is seriously getting a lot of purchase orders from bd lately



I will bet my smart money on the PC-21. Head and shoulders above the rest. But maybe a few dollars more expensive.

KT-1 I think not (old copy of Tucano 312 first edition), Hurkus is too new (unless we get a ToT or parts production deal) and Diamond 40 is way too slow, not even in the same class.

Diamond 40 is a basic (ab-initio) side-by-side trainer, rest of these are advanced programmable conversion trainers where you can customize flight envelopes to that of training jets like K-8 and L-39.

PC-21 is built for advanced training -- it is certainly in a different class than our basic trainer PT-6 (Nanchang CJ6A).









To be honest - I am surprised that the Nanachang CJ-7 (or Russian equivalent Yak 152) was not considered, which comes with a very advanced German diesel engine option.

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## BlackViking

Bilal9 said:


> I will bet my smart money on the PC-21. Head and shoulders above the rest. But maybe a few dollars more expensive.
> 
> KT-1 I think not (old copy of Tucano 312 first edition), Hurkus is too new (unless we get a ToT or parts production deal) and Diamond 40 is way too slow, not even in the same class.
> 
> Diamond 40 is a basic (ab-initio) side-by-side trainer, rest of these are advanced programmable conversion trainers where you can customize flight envelopes to that of training jets like K-8 and L-39.
> 
> PC-21 is built for advanced training -- it is certainly in a different class than our basic trainer PT-6 (Nanchang CJ6A).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest - I am surprised that the Nanachang CJ-7 (or Russian equivalent Yak 152) was not considered, which comes with a very advanced German diesel engine option.


I think baf will go for hurkus in the end


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## Bilal9

BlackViking said:


> I think baf will go for hurkus in the end



Maybe. Is Hurkus even flying?


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## BlackViking

Bilal9 said:


> Maybe. Is Hurkus even flying?


Yeah...one recently crashed

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## Indos

Bilal9 said:


> Maybe. Is Hurkus even flying?



Hurkus is still in flight test, not yet in mass production phase.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> I will bet my smart money on the PC-21. Head and shoulders above the rest. But maybe a few dollars more expensive.
> 
> KT-1 I think not (old copy of Tucano 312 first edition), Hurkus is too new (unless we get a ToT or parts production deal) and Diamond 40 is way too slow, not even in the same class.
> 
> Diamond 40 is a basic (ab-initio) side-by-side trainer, rest of these are advanced programmable conversion trainers where you can customize flight envelopes to that of training jets like K-8 and L-39.
> 
> PC-21 is built for advanced training -- it is certainly in a different class than our basic trainer PT-6 (Nanchang CJ6A).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest - I am surprised that the Nanachang CJ-7 (or Russian equivalent Yak 152) was not considered, which comes with a very advanced German diesel engine option.


My bet is on hurkus since pc21 is too expensive for our country. Cost effectiveness wise... hurkus is a good balance of nato standard and price

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## The Ronin

Bilal9 said:


> Maybe. Is Hurkus even flying?



15 on order for Turkish Air Force with an option for 40 more.

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## Agha Sher

Bilal9 said:


> Maybe. Is Hurkus even flying?



TAI has produced 18 Hürkus aircraft in different configurations. 

https://cdnuploads.aa.com.tr/uploads/InfoGraphic/2020/06/25/d9b9fedbf91a9181e824d926668ba200.jpg



Indos said:


> Hurkus is still in flight test, not yet in mass production phase.



Hopefully, Bangladesh will go for Hürkus. That would be a very important boost for Turkey's aerospace industry. It would also pave the way for Bangladesh to adopt other products such as Hürjet and TAI TF-X down the road.

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## Indos

Agha Sher said:


> Hopefully, Bangladesh will go for Hürkus. That would be a very important boost for Turkey's aerospace industry. It would also pave the way for Bangladesh to adopt other products such as Hürjet and TAI TF-X down the road.



Yup, I also think Bangladesh should favor on Hurkus in order to help other Muslim countries. Not like China who is siding with Myanmar, Bangladesh adversary, and USA that can impose any embargo to Muslim countries like what happen in Turkey/Iran (currently) and Indonesia (in the past), Turkey is a natural ally for Bangladesh. 

Talking about Hurjet, that plane should be roll out ASAP, dont know why it is so slow, do you know recent Hurjet progress ?

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## Agha Sher

Indos said:


> Talking about Hurjet, that plane should be roll out ASAP, dont know why it is so slow, do you know recent Hurjet progress ?



Hürjet is expected to make its first flight in mid-2022.

Critical Design Review (CDR) will be completed this year and will be followed by the Test Readiness Review (TRR).

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...of-hurjet-project-concluded-successfully-3588



Indos said:


> Yup, I also think Bangladesh should favor on Hurkus in order to help other Muslim countries. Not like China who is siding with Myanmar, Bangladesh adversary, and USA that can impose any embargo to Muslim countries like what happen in Turkey/Iran (currently) and Indonesia (in the past), Turkey is a natural ally for Bangladesh.



Brother, I am seeing Indonesia doing great progress as well. You guys are making us extremely proud. Keep up the hard work on your economy and the rest will come, Insha'Allah. 

I think Indonesia deserves its own sub-forum in the country watch section. Maybe we should lobby the mods for it?

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## Indos

Agha Sher said:


> Brother, I am seeing Indonesia doing great progress as well. You guys are making us extremely proud. Keep up the hard work on your economy and the rest will come, Insha'Allah.
> 
> I think Indonesia deserves its own sub-forum in the country watch section. Maybe we should lobby the mods for it?



Thanks brother @Agha Sher

Yup, I hope Indonesian economy will keep growing. Currently we are competing with China for manufactured goods and also western nation for services in our own market. I dont know whether we can own our market since their products are super cheap. But of course we are here in Indonesia try to do the best and hopefully win this economic competition.

The biggest steel maker here, PT Krakatau Steel, which is a state owned company, for example, has score lost for 8 consecutive years after ASEAN-China FTA is effective since 2012, some private own steel makers have gone bankrupt as well due to that agreement. But after new and young CEO is appointed late 2018, he make some hard reform and Alhamdulillah the company can turn into profit in the first three months of this year.

We need to wait another 5 years to see whether we can win the competition in our own market. I hope our private owned manufacturers are also resilient as well although without government direct back up. I also hope the best for Turkey, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and other Muslim economies.

Talking about our own sub forum in PDF, actually Indonesian members have discussed about this as well not long ago, but I suggested to wait for at least another 5 years to see whether we can double our members during that period. Other members seems to support me. And majority of Indonesian members also show less interest to contribute in other Indonesian threads beside Indonesian Military Forum. They tend to flock on that special thread, so there is no urgency to make a sub forum that will be filled by many Indonesian related threads if only few members would contribute there. But I think we should add more sticky Indonesian related threads in China and Far East Section.

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## TopCat

Indos said:


> Yup, I also think Bangladesh should favor on Hurkus in order to help other Muslim countries. Not like China who is siding with Myanmar, Bangladesh adversary, and USA that can impose any embargo to Muslim countries like what happen in Turkey/Iran (currently) and Indonesia (in the past), Turkey is a natural ally for Bangladesh.
> 
> Talking about Hurjet, that plane should be roll out ASAP, dont know why it is so slow, do you know recent Hurjet progress ?


Well, I dont care from where BD acquire the platform but it should pay attention to indigenization of weapons system what Israel had been doing all along. That will reduce the operational cost of the air force along with increased training and efficiency. That's the hardest part for sure.

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## JohnWick

Michael Corleone said:


> My bet is on hurkus since pc21 is too expensive for our country. Cost effectiveness wise... hurkus is a good balance of nato standard and price


Azam Chacha.


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=175049097387935


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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=175049097387935


Free taxpayer funded joy trip. We should not read too much into it.





"...it's AH-64E..." As if we have inducted them already.
Presumptive much? Ashiq never learns.


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## BlackViking

Al-Ansar said:


> Free taxpayer funded joy trip. We should not read too much into it.
> 
> View attachment 650673
> 
> Presumptive much? Ashiq never learns.


Is Apache confirmed ?


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Is Apache confirmed ?


No where near it and that was my point.

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=687528118491560















__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2317807838527567

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## BlackViking

What's really going on with baf...are they buying any fighters secretly or are they still looking for options ?..someone told me mrca project has been cancelled due to funding issue something cheap will come..I didn't believe him at that time but may be that's the issue ? Idk baf has gone completely haywire


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> What's really going on with baf...are they buying any fighters secretly or are they still looking for options ?..someone told me mrca project has been cancelled due to funding issue something cheap will come..I didn't believe him at that time but may be that's the issue ? Idk baf has gone completely haywire


Why you need fighter jets when you got weed?

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Why you need fighter jets when you got weed?




Some OG stuff on top of that lmao.


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Some OG stuff on top of that lmao.


Dude the secret message is there in Air Force ad...
“Because when you fly, the nation look on high” 





1:22

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Why you need fighter jets when you got weed?


Idk man this is just disappointing..everyone is making deals and getting deliveries left and right except baf

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## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> Idk man this is just disappointing..everyone is making deals and getting deliveries left and right except baf




Patience brother, good things come to those who wait.

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## alikazmi007

Michael Corleone said:


> Dude the secret message is there in Air Force ad...
> “Because when you fly, the nation look on high”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1:22



Very nice! mad respect for our Bangladeshi brothers in arms!

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## monitor

Painting job done for Third C-130J transport aircraft brought from UK .will delivered this year

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Dude the secret message is there in Air Force ad...
> “Because when you fly, the nation look on high”


"And when you're high, even BAF flies".



BlackViking said:


> Idk man this is just disappointing..everyone is making deals and getting deliveries left and right except baf


At least BAF is good at bal falani. This way no one can claim that BAF does not possess "air-to-ground" capabilities.

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## Michael Corleone

monitor said:


> View attachment 650873
> View attachment 650874
> 
> Painting job done for Third C-130J transport aircraft brought from UK .will delivered this year


What’s with the bold font.


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=175244157368429


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=175244157368429


finally... it was pointless to worry about VIP transport... that shouldn't be the job of the airforce that's as cash strapped as BAF


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158495261875359






And Burmese train with..... 

How right nobody trains with those who lack basic training.

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## X-ray Papa

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158495261875359
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Burmese train with.....
> 
> How right nobody trains with those who lack basic training.


Burmese Boot Camp:

1) Find Enemy
2) Spray and Pray
3)Run Away


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## X-ray Papa

DalalErMaNodi said:


> 0) equip ballistic sandal as footwear.


0.1) Rape little girls as they can feel their tiny penis.


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## Arthur

Guys.......

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## Destranator

Arthur said:


> Guys.......


What about girls? Misogynist!


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2319709335004084





Any truth to this ? I heard RAF is downsizing, maybe we can get some more stuff from them.


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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2319709335004084
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any truth to this ? I heard RAF is downsizing, maybe we can get some more stuff from them.



At best inaccurate. The RAF J30s (C4s) are not for sale.

RAF had procured 10 x standard C-130Js (C5s) in the early 90s. 1 will be retained and the rest sold.
Of the 9 that were intended to be sold, BAF bought 5, USN bought 1, Bahraini AF bought 2. I do not know where the one remaining C-5 is.


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2319709335004084
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any truth to this ? I heard RAF is downsizing, maybe we can get some more stuff from them.


I told before that 2x c130 from US is being planned so no I don’t think from UK


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> I told before that 2x c130 from US is being planned so no I don’t think from UK



Which variant ?


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## mb444

Al-Ansar said:


> At best inaccurate. The RAF J30s (C4s) are not for sale.
> 
> RAF had procured 10 x standard C-130Js (C5s) in the early 90s. 1 will be retained and the rest sold.
> Of the 9 that were intended to be sold, BAF bought 5, USN bought 1, Bahraini AF bought 2. I do not know where the one remaining C-5 is.



Brexit and the massive recession will force RAF downsizing in numbers.... this is completely given. Will BAF benefit from it....who knows.


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## DalalErMaNodi

mb444 said:


> Brexit and the massive recession will force RAF downsizing in numbers.... this is completely given. Will BAF benefit from it....who knows.




Benefit? 

They can't decide on what jets to procure, incompetent leadership should be relieved of their command.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Which variant ?


Bd has been lobbying for a long time to buy 20 rolls Royce engines for the old 4 and 2 c130 super Hercules under EDA, problem is still didn’t materialize... but last year heard that 2x c130s will come from US besides the 5 from UK.


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## Arthur

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd has been lobbying for a long time to buy 20 rolls Royce engines for the old 4 and 2 c130 super Hercules under EDA, problem is still didn’t materialize... but last year heard that 2x c130s will come from US besides the 5 from UK.


But they did provide engines to bring the 4'th C130B back to service. And we got 2/3 spare engine for the fleet. Not much but enough to keep them flying for few more years . Those 20 engine project were put on hold since BAF ended up buying J variants.

I hope BAF stocks enough spares for the new Super Hercs fleet.

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## Buddhistforlife

Arthur said:


> But they did provide engines to bring the 4'th C130B back to service. And we got 2/3 spare engine for the fleet. Not much but enough to keep them flying for few more years . Those 20 engine project were put on hold since BAF ended up buying J variants.
> 
> I hope BAF stocks enough spares for the new Super Hercs fleet.


BAF needs combat aircraft. BD government does not need to buy transport aircraft which will most likely be used by VIPs themselves.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> BAF needs combat aircraft. BD government does not need to buy transport aircraft which will most likely be used by VIPs themselves.



VIPs will make use of the three new purpose built VVIP helicopters that are being procured as we speak, no VIP will travel in rugged, cargo and military transport aircraft be it a C-130, a C-5 galaxy, a C-17 Globemaster or a A-400 Atlas.


Transport aircraft are for ferrying troops, tanks and other equipment to and fro, wherever and whenever needed. The role of a well maintained fleet of military cargo aircraft during a conflict can't be discounted. 


These aircraft also help with disaster relief operations in a disaster prone nation like ours, Corona virus has shown us why these transport aircraft are necessary.

For one they were used to evacuate our citizens from India, Maldives and Sri Lanka without having to charter a Bangladesh airlines aircraft. 

And secondly, we all know, how the C-130s were used to fly in medical equipment from China. They are filling an important role, and a good airforce starts with good transport aircraft. 


The airforce is not only tasked with maintaining air superiority but also to provide logistics support to the government and the other wings of the armed forces.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> But they did provide engines to bring the 4'th C130B back to service. And we got 2/3 spare engine for the fleet. Not much but enough to keep them flying for few more years . Those 20 engine project were put on hold since BAF ended up buying J variants.
> 
> I hope BAF stocks enough spares for the new Super Hercs fleet.



Do you have any idea about the reason for such a delay in procuring combat aircraft?

It seems transports and trainers are being addressed.

But the tip of the spear is dull.

I think you had mentioned earlier don't expect anything before 2025.

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## Michael Corleone

Arthur said:


> But they did provide engines to bring the 4'th C130B back to service. And we got 2/3 spare engine for the fleet. Not much but enough to keep them flying for few more years . Those 20 engine project were put on hold since BAF ended up buying J variants.
> 
> I hope BAF stocks enough spares for the new Super Hercs fleet.


given it's BAF highly unlikely, they'll wait until those planes are way past their mid life...
no fighter aircraft news, despicable

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> given it's BAF highly unlikely, they'll wait until those planes are way past their mid life...
> no fighter aircraft news, despicable



WTF man?

Burma may end up buying Block 3 Thunders.

Not to mention more Israeli/Singaporean weapons that become available. i.e. highly effective Western based munitions.

What the hell is BAF waiting for?

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> WTF man?
> 
> Burma may end up buying Block 3 Thunders.
> 
> Not to mention more Israeli/Singaporean weapons that become available. i.e. highly effective Western based munitions.
> 
> What the hell is BAF waiting for?


god fucking knows... they got tons of excuses... blame covid 19 now i guess

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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> WTF man?
> 
> Burma may end up buying Block 3 Thunders.
> 
> Not to mention more Israeli/Singaporean weapons that become available. i.e. highly effective Western based munitions.
> 
> What the hell is BAF waiting for?





Burma bal'o chirte parbena ....

Murokkho projati.


Pet ai bhat nai, abar asche dada giri chodate.



Their force morale is zero after years of civil war and infighting not to mention low pay.


They have next to no training except a few trophy units and battalions, everything we buy they copy, satellite now they're itching to buy, navy swads also copied from us.


Why are they so paranoid, if they're so strong ?



Shala murroko projati.

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Burma bal'o chirte parbena ....
> 
> Murokkho projati.
> 
> 
> Pet ai bhat nai, abar asche dada giri chodate.
> 
> 
> 
> Their force moral is zero after years of civil war and infighting not to mention low pay.
> 
> 
> They have next to no training except a few trophy units and battalions, everything we buy they copy, satellite now they're itching to buy, navy swads also copied from us.
> 
> 
> Why are they so paranoid, if they're so strong ?
> 
> 
> 
> Shala murroko projati.



Still Bangladesh needs to be prepared.

If that time comes when armed conflict is imposed on Bangladesh.

Smash them hard.

In order to do that, you have to be prepared.

These people seem to only understand force.

Bengalis love to pontificate while sipping on tea and eating meeshti.

Read kobeeta and whatever.

But at this point the nation has been humiliated by Burmese aggression.

Not to mention an apparent submissiveness to Indian sensitivites.

This has to change.

Burma is low hanging fruit.

Buy some fighters.

Train hard.

And be prepared.

If Bangladesh is able to present a credible military threat, Burma backs down from any further shenanigans.

And do not put it past the criminals who run that country for further misadventure.

And that civilian witch lady is on the same page as their military.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Burmese boital er aulad ol judi Teknaf ar cox Bazar ot aiye are local manush di kham Tamam gori diyom.


They can't even dream of holding Cox Bazar, forget Chittagong city, let them sit in JF-17 and jerk off with their SU and SY-400 while people are dying of hungry, one less genocidal maniac.



Avicenna said:


> Still Bangladesh needs to be prepared.
> 
> If that time comes when armed conflict is imposed on Bangladesh.
> 
> Smash them hard.
> 
> In order to do that, you have to be prepared.
> 
> These people seem to only understand force.





We are preparing for conflict, if any, with our neighbor that is capable of fighting a war, not a group of hooligans with guns, this ain't Africa, can't be arsed to deal with war lords. 


Just grow economy and out spend them, they will have nothing to do but cry and try to make more money with yaba. 

They can't even field a bigger budget than they already are, it's at its saturation point, while we can and since our economy is growing, the number that we can potentially field is also growing.


Sorry for low quality post full of typos, I'm sick and too tired to type in my normal fashion.

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## Avicenna

You can expect some this to be going Myanmar's way.

*ST Engineering partners with IAI on naval missiles*
By | Jr Ng |July 17, 2020






Gabriel V anti-ship missile

_Singapore’s ST Engineering announced on 15 July that its land systems division has signed an agreement with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) to set up a joint venture in Singapore to market and sell naval missile systems ST Missile, including a next-generation anti-ship missile (ASM) system._


*Proteus Advanced Systems*
Both companies will each hold a 50 percent stake in the new firm, which will be named Proteus Advanced Systems, although further details of the partnership have not been disclosed.

IAI has developed a range of naval missiles, including the Barak family of surface-to-air missile (SAM) and the Gabriel ASM systems.

*Barak MX*
The latest Barak MX is a vertically launched air and missile defence system that is designed to engage a range of threats – including sea skimming and cruise missiles, fighter aircraft, ballistic missiles, helicopters, and unmanned aerial vehicles – at maximum ranges from 35km to 150km depending on the model.

*Gabriel ASM*
The company also offers the secretive Gabriel ASM, which has entered service with the Israeli Navy and several other navies around the world. The sea skimming missile has evolved over the years since the first model – Gabriel I – was introduced in the 1960s.

The latest version, understood to be designated the Gabriel V/Advanced Naval Attack Missile (ANAM), resembles the US-made RGM-84 Harpoon ASM and has been selected by the Finnish Navy in July 2018 as a replacement for its ageing MTO 85M (Saab RBS15) missiles.

According to the Finnish Navy announcement, the Gabriel V has a length of 5.5 metres and a launch weight of 1,250kg. The missile has a stated range of over 200 kilometres and is equipped with an active radar seeker featuring advanced anti-jam features, all-weather operation, as well as enhanced search and discrimination capabilities.

*Smart Systems*
The new joint venture will not be the first of such companies to be set up in Singapore. ST Engineering had earlier announced in July 1999 that it will partner with Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defense Systems to set up Smart Systems, which is presently the prime contractor for the local manufacture, supply, and maintenance of the Spike anti-armour missile for the Singapore Armed Forces.

It has also begun to market the weapon and its training system in the Southeast Asian region.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Heroines can't even quell internal unrests, forget fighting a conventional war with an actual force capable of fighting an actual war.


Myanmar air force ? What airforce the one that has a fatal accident every six months when they bother with publishing the news and they have a thing for censoring embarrassing news and what censoring there isn't any print media not owned by generals.


MAF pilots is capable of train station porter job in Bangladesh.

Where have MAF trained ? Provided CAS to sandal clad troops during a civil war with reds armed with basic manpads isn't piloting, it's shooting fish in a barrel.



Avicenna said:


> You can expect some this to be going Myanmar's way.
> 
> *ST Engineering partners with IAI on naval missiles*
> By | Jr Ng |July 17, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gabriel V anti-ship missile
> 
> _Singapore’s ST Engineering announced on 15 July that its land systems division has signed an agreement with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) to set up a joint venture in Singapore to market and sell naval missile systems ST Missile, including a next-generation anti-ship missile (ASM) system._
> 
> 
> *Proteus Advanced Systems*
> Both companies will each hold a 50 percent stake in the new firm, which will be named Proteus Advanced Systems, although further details of the partnership have not been disclosed.
> 
> IAI has developed a range of naval missiles, including the Barak family of surface-to-air missile (SAM) and the Gabriel ASM systems.
> 
> *Barak MX*
> The latest Barak MX is a vertically launched air and missile defence system that is designed to engage a range of threats – including sea skimming and cruise missiles, fighter aircraft, ballistic missiles, helicopters, and unmanned aerial vehicles – at maximum ranges from 35km to 150km depending on the model.
> 
> *Gabriel ASM*
> The company also offers the secretive Gabriel ASM, which has entered service with the Israeli Navy and several other navies around the world. The sea skimming missile has evolved over the years since the first model – Gabriel I – was introduced in the 1960s.
> 
> The latest version, understood to be designated the Gabriel V/Advanced Naval Attack Missile (ANAM), resembles the US-made RGM-84 Harpoon ASM and has been selected by the Finnish Navy in July 2018 as a replacement for its ageing MTO 85M (Saab RBS15) missiles.
> 
> According to the Finnish Navy announcement, the Gabriel V has a length of 5.5 metres and a launch weight of 1,250kg. The missile has a stated range of over 200 kilometres and is equipped with an active radar seeker featuring advanced anti-jam features, all-weather operation, as well as enhanced search and discrimination capabilities.
> 
> *Smart Systems*
> The new joint venture will not be the first of such companies to be set up in Singapore. ST Engineering had earlier announced in July 1999 that it will partner with Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defense Systems to set up Smart Systems, which is presently the prime contractor for the local manufacture, supply, and maintenance of the Spike anti-armour missile for the Singapore Armed Forces.
> 
> It has also begun to market the weapon and its training system in the Southeast Asian region.





Not happening, Singapore is not a fan of China, they won't sell any equipment to Burma that will inadvertently end up in china for re-engineering, nor are the Israelis they dumb, they sell Myanmar scraps.


Hell, if we opened up diplomatic channels with Israel, seeing our economy and our ability to pay dues, they'd sell us almost anything but BM.



We feed the Burmese fantasy by taking them into consideration, being paranoid and considering them a threat.


They aren't anything of that sort, the truth is we are reluctant to fight.

Our country is stable since 2014 and no one of us want to lose that, especially not the government. So we let things slide, but we bengalis have good memories, we still have 1952 in our hearts and minds.


You think we will forget rohingya crisis and Burmese aggression in 10 years ?


Wait brothers, be patient, contribute to the country, if you aren't a Bangladeshi citizenship holder, no problem just spread the word about your ancestral home... Every little bit counts.


Wait for 2030s and watch the show unfold, North Korea #2 will be exactly like NK but with no nukes.


We are capable of smacking them but we have other priorities, this is not a weakness but rather our strength and our commitment to our nation and people.


Patience brothers, Patience, BAF will shock us all, just watch.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Burmese boital er aulad ol judi Teknaf ar cox Bazar ot aiye are local manush di kham Tamam gori diyom.
> 
> 
> They can't even dream of holding Cox Bazar, forget Chittagong city, let them sit in JF-17 and jerk off with their SU and SY-400 while people are dying of hungry, one less genocidal maniac.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are preparing for conflict, if any, with our neighbor that is capable of fighting a war, not a group of hooligans with guns, this ain't Africa, can't be arsed to deal with war lords.
> 
> 
> Just grow economy and out spend them, they will have nothing to do but cry and try to make more money with yaba.
> 
> They can't even field a bigger budget than they already are, it's at its saturation point, while we can and since our economy is growing, the number that we can potentially field is also growing.
> 
> 
> Sorry for low quality post full of typos, I'm sick and too tired to type in my normal fashion.


Now you know why I’m the way I’m



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Patience brothers, Patience, BAF will shock us all, just watch.


Yeah the shock would be we would still be buying transport aircrafts and helicopters when the mig 29s will be retired in 2030

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Do you have any idea about the reason for such a delay in procuring combat aircraft?
> 
> It seems transports and trainers are being addressed.
> 
> But the tip of the spear is dull.
> 
> I think you had mentioned earlier don't expect anything before 2025.


Yes, I did. And I still stand by what I said.



Michael Corleone said:


> given it's BAF highly unlikely, they'll wait until those planes are way past their mid life...


"কুফা" লাগাইও নারে ভাই।
They might end up reading your post & take it as a good idea.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> Yes, I did. And I still stand by what I said.
> 
> 
> "কুফা" লাগাইও নারে ভাই।
> They might end up reading your post & thinks that it's a good idea.



I tend to agree with you.

But the question is why do you think so.....2025 date that is?


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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> I tend to agree with you.
> 
> But the question is why do you think so.....2025 date that is?




2025 Poddha Shetu will be complete, so they will get ready made airstrip to land the MRCA. 

Two birds with the one stone.

To know what's going on in BAF, one must think like BAF.


----------



## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I tend to agree with you.
> 
> But the question is why do you think so.....2025 date that is?


2025 is just a rough timeline I calculated last year. 
There is the matter of budget, manpower, technological shortfalls that might not be visible from outside, but peoples aware of the situation on ground knows any massive investment without addressing these will only turn it into IAF Version 2.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Arthur said:


> IAF Version 2.



Tauba Tauba, eishob ki boltesen re Bhaijan.


Balo khota khoiyyo, Bala poriniti oibo.

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> 2025 is just a rough timeline I calculated last year.
> There is the matter of budget, manpower, technological shortfalls that might not be visible from outside, but peoples aware of the situation on ground knows any massive investment without addressing these will only turn it into IAF Version 2.



Thanks.

As long as the people on the ground have a clear plan.

Of course we internet warriors know next to nothing about the actual reality of things.

Do you have any insight into what type or types BAF has chosen?

(Just trying to generate relevant conversation in this otherwise quiet thread)

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I tend to agree with you.
> 
> But the question is why do you think so.....2025 date that is?


Kuwait’s EFTs won’t be delivered until 2024... so if we place an order before anyone else... 2025

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## DalalErMaNodi

You know the thread is at an all time low and BAF is beyond dead, when @Avicenna Bhai here has to state the intentions behind his inquisitive queries inside a parentheses.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Kuwait’s EFTs won’t be delivered until 2024... so if we place an order before anyone else... 2025



New build Tranche 3 would be nice!

And 2025 would be ok if that were the case.

J-10, I would think could potentially come sooner.

But who knows if those are really the selected types.....

@DalalErMaNodi 

I'm still waiting for the second batch of K-8 to be delivered.

I'm wondering what the hold up is?

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## Arthur

Some issues I observed with BAF :

BAF for the last ~20 years recruited only a token number of pilots in a single batch. This resulted in shortage of pilots resulting to shortfall in leadership & talent.

BAF for the longest time suffered the smallest of budget of the tri service. The situation was so bad BAF couldn't even afford a 30 minutes sortie on a single Mig29. And we can all assume what can be the result.

BAF's own leadership can be thanked for 50 percent of it's problem. Simply zero creativity in managing political interference. And failure to capture momentum now even when the political leadership is ready to provide all necessary support.

But one line to describe it all, 100% solution to all their problem is determined leadership. I can't help be like some parents, "Just look at the Navy " 



Avicenna said:


> Thanks.
> 
> As long as the people on the ground have a clear plan.
> 
> Of course we internet warriors know next to nothing about the actual reality of things.
> 
> Do you have any insight into what type or types BAF has chosen?
> 
> (Just trying to generate relevant conversation in this otherwise quiet thread)


Don't think the people on ground has any plan. I can tell that every time I talk with them. ATM I am leaning to the notion that, an Internet warrior might do a better job.

The less said about BAF "plans ", the better. I refuse to eat my own words even once more.

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## leonblack08

Arthur said:


> BAF for the last ~20 years recruited only a token number of pilots in a single batch.



I had heard the same in this regard. The people in the force was welcoming the decision to procure the trainers for this very reason.

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## BlackViking

Baf issued tender for mrca in 2017 that means they needed mrca within 2020/2021 and now its mid of 2020 and baf as usual still looking for "options"...that is just depressing.
And no one should underestimate their enemy..may be they are not well trained they are uneducated but they can always surprise you

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I'm still waiting for the second batch of K-8 to be delivered


They’ve been delivered I think @Arthur

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> They’ve been delivered I think @Arthur



My main (actually only) source of info is the internet with places like DEFSECA or other groups on FB.

I would have assumed an article if that was the case.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Kuwait’s EFTs won’t be delivered until 2024... so if we place an order before anyone else... 2025


Sorry I have not been keeping track, is the 2018 election over yet?



Avicenna said:


> My main (actually only) source of info is the internet with places like DEFSECA or other groups on FB.
> 
> I would have assumed an article if that was the case.



Take anything these outlets say with a gain of salt. Keep an eye on DGDP's tenders if you are keen. The procurement patterns offer indications towards what is to come next.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Sorry I have not been keeping track, is the 2018 election over yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Take anything these outlets say with a gain of salt. Keep an eye on DGDP's tenders if you are keen. The procurement patterns offer indications towards what is to come next.


I see tenders for salts and pulses in their website :/

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> I see tenders for salts and pulses in their website :/







; 

New explosive lab, 1xGE engine for L410, overhaul of 1 Mi-17V-5.


Ok, here is some good insider news. BA has finalised a deal to set up a dedicated APC maintenance plant. This will be a massive boost to our combat readiness. This is more of a significant development than procurement of more useless tanks which are unsuitable for BD terrain.

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## Bilal9

Al-Ansar said:


> View attachment 652259
> ;
> 
> New explosive lab, 1xGE engine for L410, overhaul of 1 Mi-17V-5.
> 
> 
> Ok, here is some good insider news. BA has finalised a deal to set up a dedicated APC maintenance plant. This will be a massive boost to our combat readiness. This is more of a significant development than procurement of more useless tanks which are unsuitable for BD terrain.



I thought they had an APC maintenance wing already. You know - for the eight wheeled stuff? 

To my knowledge, we have the largest inventory after the Russians (almost a thousand by now). I could be wrong however.


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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> I thought they had an APC maintenance wing already. You know - for the eight wheeled stuff?
> 
> To my knowledge, we have the largest inventory after the Russians (almost a thousand by now). I could be wrong however.


We do not have overhauling capabilities right now.

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=691832174727821





@Al-Ansar insert UN ride sharing comment.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> This is more of a significant development than procurement of more useless tanks which are unsuitable for BD terrain


Again brother you make this mistake, if tanks were useless Bangladesh wouldn’t have invested so heavily on anti tank. There are far more necessary field to invest in like air defence and artillery... but it is important, otherwise we would have no reason to upgrade, modernize and procure new tanks

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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=691832174727821
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Al-Ansar insert UN ride sharing comment.


Well, this is one of the few things BAF has gotten absolutely right; US FMS channel has been unresponsive to BAF requests for Hercules. RAF put up 9 Super Hercules (much better than Hercules) for sale and BAF managed to secure 5 of them despite these being highly sought after transporters.
I do not know how much they got them for but it is worth it regardless. They last forever and will play a crucial role in maintaining BAF's capabilities especially given their thumb-twiddling nature when it comes to procurement.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Well, this is one of the few things BAF has gotten absolutely right; US FMS channel has been unresponsive to BAF requests for Hercules. RAF put up 9 Super Hercules (much better than Hercules) for sale and BAF managed to secure 5 of them despite these being highly sought after transporters.
> I do not know how much they got them for but it is worth it regardless. They last forever and will play a crucial role in maintaining BAF's capabilities especially given their thumb-twiddling nature when it comes to procurement.


They’re not super Hercules, that’s a stretched version of the Hercules... which Bangladesh does plan to procure... it depends if RAF plans to go ahead and downsize or if US agrees to sell

http://m.theindependentbd.com/post/196581

100 million dollar deal with France for radar to fortify BAF’s radar coverage.


The government will soon set up a Communication, Navigation and Surveillance Air Traffic Management (CNS-ATM) system with a multi-mode radar system at Hazrat Shahjalal International Airport (HSIA) to modernise and comply with the international standard. The Civil Aviation Authority, Bangladesh (CAAB) will install Air Traffic Control (ATC) and Air Traffic Management (ATM) systems under a project of CNS-ATM worth Tk 851 crore under a government-to-government (G to G) deal, sources in the civil aviation ministry said. 

The CAAB authorities are going to purchase the highly technical devices from the French company, Thales Technology, without inviting tender, the sources added.


The civil aviation ministry has already prepared a proposal for purchasing the CNS-ATM system from the French firm under the G to G deal and it will be placed at the next meeting of the cabinet committee on economic affairs, seeking its approval, a senior official of the civil aviation ministry told The Independent.

“The French company will install the system at the international airport after the devices are bought from them,” he said.

“We’ll set up the (CNS-ATM) system as per the guideline of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to comply with the international standard,” he added.

According to the proposal of the civil aviation ministry, Primary Surveillance Radar, Mono Pulse Secondary Surveillance Radar Mode S (MSSR Mode S), Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast (ADS-B), Multi-Lateration (MLAT), ATM Automation, Very Small Aperture Terminal (VSAT), Remote Control Air Ground (RCAG), VHF (TX, RX, Emergency Transceiver), Voice Communication Control System (VCCS), ATM Telecommunication (AMHS, ATN, AFTN), Advanced Surface Movement Guidance and Control System (A-SMGCS) and Aeronautical Information Management (AIM) will be

installed Under the CNS-ATM project. At the same time, the CAAB authorities will complete a radar building project, set up Air Traffic Control Tower and Air Traffic Management Control Tower at the airport, the proposal added.

The proposal also says the French company will provide the airport security free of cost.

Earlier, the government took an initiative to implement a radar system management project under the Private Public Partnership (PPP) in 2012.

When the project was placed at the cabinet committee on economic affairs in 2017, the committee advised to implement the important and priority project through a G-to-G deal, sources said.

Hazrat Shahjalal International Airport, the largest international airport of the country, started operations in 1980.

The airport has an area of 1,981 acres and the CAAB operates and maintains the airport. This is also the hub of the national flag carrier Biman Bangladesh Airlines and also of private airlines. 

The annual passenger handling capacity of the airport is 18.5 million passengers and the average aircraft movement per day is around 190 flights.


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re not super Hercules, that’s a stretched version of the Hercules.



C-130-30 is just a stretched version of C-130J Super Hercules which can carry more payload. Both "J" variant (normal and stretched) are Super Hercules.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/cont.../documents/C-130J/June2020C-130JFastFacts.pdf

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> C-130-30 is just a stretched version of C-130J Super Hercules which can carry more payload. Both "J" variant (normal and stretched) are Super Hercules.
> 
> https://www.lockheedmartin.com/cont.../documents/C-130J/June2020C-130JFastFacts.pdf
> 
> View attachment 652783





Yes, The stretched variant is officially known as C-130J-30 'Super Hercules', I don't why they made it so confusing.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> C-130-30 is just a stretched version of C-130J Super Hercules which can carry more payload. Both "J" variant (normal and stretched) are Super Hercules.
> 
> https://www.lockheedmartin.com/cont.../documents/C-130J/June2020C-130JFastFacts.pdf
> 
> View attachment 652783


Oh ok thanks, I got confused


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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> C-130-30 is just a stretched version of C-130J Super Hercules which can carry more payload. Both "J" variant (normal and stretched) are Super Hercules.
> 
> https://www.lockheedmartin.com/cont.../documents/C-130J/June2020C-130JFastFacts.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 652783



As depicted in the infographic you shared, BD is the only third world country other than India to operate Super Hercules as the US has been restrictive about sales. BAF pounced on a very rare opportunity so credit where it is due.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> As depicted in the infographic you shared, BD is the only third world country other than India to operate Super Hercules as the US has been restrictive about sales. BAF pounced on a very rare opportunity so credit where it is due.


Iraq too I guess...


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## ghost250

one unit C-130H nd maxxpro mrap(50 units) has been confimred by dsca(EDA) 

#DTB

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 653098
> 
> View attachment 653099
> 
> one unit C-130H nd maxxpro mrap(50 units) has been confimred by dsca(EDA)
> 
> #DTB


it says delivered, as in received?


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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> it says delivered, as in received?


i think,EDA delivered means they have been agreed to deliver us a C-130H....maxxpro will be delivered between august nd septmbr(confirmed),so we can hope that hercules will join our fleet within decmbr??!!

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## BlackViking

BlackViking said:


>


Is this true ?


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 653142
> View attachment 653142
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true ?


Even if this is true, it doesn’t matter. BAF is waiting to buy f22 raptors in 2025

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Even if this is true, it doesn’t matter. BAF is waiting to buy f22 raptors in 2025[/


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## Nike

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 653142
> View attachment 653142
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true ?



Indonesia had request for proposal to acquired all of the Austrian Typhoon though through formal letter request

Its all will be who had the biggest wallet actually to acquire them

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## Avicenna

Nike said:


> Indonesia had request for proposal to acquired all of the Austrian Typhoon though through formal letter request
> 
> Its all will be who had the biggest wallet actually to acquire them
> 
> View attachment 653237



Apart from the 15 Austrian examples there are also around 32 or 33 German Tranche 1 available also.

https://theaviationist.com/2019/12/...er-typhoon-delivered-to-the-german-air-force/

*Final (for now) Eurofighter Typhoon Delivered to the German Air Force*
December 23, 2019 Stefano D'Urso Military Aviation




Two Eurofighters of TaktLwG 74 (Tactical Air Force Squadron 74) from Neuburg Air Base during a QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) training mission. (Photo: Luftwaffe)
*The Luftwaffe received 143 Eurofighters but 38 more could be arriving in future.*

The German Air Force received its final Eurofighter Typhoon on Dec. 17, 2019 becoming the second partner nation in the consortium, after the UK, to complete the delivery of all aircraft on order. Germany ordered a total of 143 Eurofighters split in three tranches (1, 2, 3A) that were delivered beginning from 2003. The final Tranche 3A Eurofighter, sporting the Luftwaffe markings 31+53, took off from Airbus’ facility in Manching, which will now switch to the production of parts required by the assembly lines of the other partner nations.

Initially, the third tranche was divided in two parts, 3A and 3B, but the orders for Tranche 3B were never confirmed because of budget restraints of the four partner nations (Germany, UK, Italy and Spain). However, Germany now could be ordering soon its Tranche 3B aircraft, even if in a different way. The German government is, in fact, looking to replace its entire fleet of 32 Tranche 1 Eurofighters with 38 newly built Tranche 3A standard aircraft.




A German Eurofighter during tests with the GBU-48 dual mode laser/GPS guided bomb. (Photo: Luftwaffe)
The program, called Project Quadriga, is aiming to sell the older Tranche 1 Eurofighters on the international market before replacing them with the new jets, that will feature also the new Captor E-Scan Mk1 AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar. No customer has been found for the older Eurofighters yet, while the contract for the new ones is expected to be signed in early 2020. Even more Eurofighters could be ordered if the Luftwaffe selects the Typhoon in the ECR configuration for the new Electronic Attack requirement and the Quadriga configuration as Tornado replacement.

As mentioned above, the new aircraft will receive the new Captor E-Scan Mk1 AESA radar that, until now, has not been ordered by any of the four nations in the consortium but that will equip the Eurofighters sold to Kuwait and Qatar. Spain is also looking for a joint contract along with Germany to buy a batch of Captor E radars. Germany is reportedly looking to retrofit the entire fleet of Tranche 2 and 3A Eurofighters with the new radars.

According to Kurt Rossner, Airbus Defence & Space’s Head of Combat Aircraft Systems, the deliveries of the new Eurofighters could begin some 40-46 months after the contract signature, while the deliveries of the new radars could begin in 2022.


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## BlackViking

Avicenna said:


> Apart from the 15 Austrian examples there are also around 32 or 33 German Tranche 1 available also.
> 
> https://theaviationist.com/2019/12/...er-typhoon-delivered-to-the-german-air-force/
> 
> *Final (for now) Eurofighter Typhoon Delivered to the German Air Force*
> December 23, 2019 Stefano D'Urso Military Aviation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Eurofighters of TaktLwG 74 (Tactical Air Force Squadron 74) from Neuburg Air Base during a QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) training mission. (Photo: Luftwaffe)
> *The Luftwaffe received 143 Eurofighters but 38 more could be arriving in future.*
> 
> The German Air Force received its final Eurofighter Typhoon on Dec. 17, 2019 becoming the second partner nation in the consortium, after the UK, to complete the delivery of all aircraft on order. Germany ordered a total of 143 Eurofighters split in three tranches (1, 2, 3A) that were delivered beginning from 2003. The final Tranche 3A Eurofighter, sporting the Luftwaffe markings 31+53, took off from Airbus’ facility in Manching, which will now switch to the production of parts required by the assembly lines of the other partner nations.
> 
> Initially, the third tranche was divided in two parts, 3A and 3B, but the orders for Tranche 3B were never confirmed because of budget restraints of the four partner nations (Germany, UK, Italy and Spain). However, Germany now could be ordering soon its Tranche 3B aircraft, even if in a different way. The German government is, in fact, looking to replace its entire fleet of 32 Tranche 1 Eurofighters with 38 newly built Tranche 3A standard aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A German Eurofighter during tests with the GBU-48 dual mode laser/GPS guided bomb. (Photo: Luftwaffe)
> The program, called Project Quadriga, is aiming to sell the older Tranche 1 Eurofighters on the international market before replacing them with the new jets, that will feature also the new Captor E-Scan Mk1 AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar. No customer has been found for the older Eurofighters yet, while the contract for the new ones is expected to be signed in early 2020. Even more Eurofighters could be ordered if the Luftwaffe selects the Typhoon in the ECR configuration for the new Electronic Attack requirement and the Quadriga configuration as Tornado replacement.
> 
> As mentioned above, the new aircraft will receive the new Captor E-Scan Mk1 AESA radar that, until now, has not been ordered by any of the four nations in the consortium but that will equip the Eurofighters sold to Kuwait and Qatar. Spain is also looking for a joint contract along with Germany to buy a batch of Captor E radars. Germany is reportedly looking to retrofit the entire fleet of Tranche 2 and 3A Eurofighters with the new radars.
> 
> According to Kurt Rossner, Airbus Defence & Space’s Head of Combat Aircraft Systems, the deliveries of the new Eurofighters could begin some 40-46 months after the contract signature, while the deliveries of the new radars could begin in 2022.


Tranche 1 can be upgraded to 3 ?


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## Avicenna

BlackViking said:


> Tranche 1 can be upgraded to 3 ?



No I don't think so.

These upgraded Spanish Tranche 1 is around as far as you would get with any potential upgrades I would think.

https://www.airforce-technology.com...t-upgraded-tranche-1-eurofighter-fighter-jet/

*Spain receives first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter fighter jet*



Airbus performed the upgrades to the single-seat Tranche 1 Eurofighter at its facilities in Getafe. 
The Spanish Air Force has received the first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter single-seat combat jet from Airbus as part of a contract.

Airbus performed the upgrade at its facilities in Getafe. The enhancements included the introduction of hardware modifications, which support the Operational Flight Program 02 (OFP-02) developed by Spain’s Armament and Experimental Logistics Centre (CLAEX).

As part of the upgrade, the company integrated Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, including a computer symbol generator, digital video and voice recorder, laser designator pod and maintenance data panel.

Airbus is also delivering enhancements to a second two-seat Eurofighter aircraft.

CLAEX intends to initially use both aircraft as test platforms for the qualification of these new capabilities that are expected to be integrated into the airforce’s fleet of 15 Tranche 1 Eurofighters.

“Eurofighter is an advanced swing-role combat aircraft that can provide simultaneously deployable air-to-air and air-to-surface capabilities.”
The Eurofighter Typhoon is a project with four European nations, the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain as founding members. The partner companies in the fighter jet programme include BAE Systems, Leonardo-Aircraft Division and Airbus Defence & Space, which operate as part of a consortium.

Alongside these four countries, the aircraft is in service with the airforces of Austria, Saudi Arabia and Oman. Two more countries, Kuwait and Qatar, placed orders for 28 and 24 aircraft respectively.

Spain received the first aircraft in 2003. Eurofighter is an advanced swing-role combat aircraft that can provide simultaneously deployable air-to-air and air-to-surface capabilities.

According to a report on janes.com, the upgrade is part of a greater modernisation plan for the Spanish Air Force’s combat fleet.

The report cited brigadier general Leon-Antonio Maches Michavila as saying at a conference in Berlin last year that the country intends to take Eurofighter Tranche 1 capability upgrades as far as the early 2030s, with an out-of-service date (OSD) scheduled for 2040.

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## mb444

As long as the damn thing can fire meteors and has tranche 2 radars its good enough to check rafales we face and completely overwhelm the simian conglomerate. 

BAF needs to just get them....Australia is also selling their efts that Indonesia wants to buy.... we should also check that out....

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> As long as the damn thing can fire meteors and has tranche 2 radars its good enough to check rafales we face and completely overwhelm the simian conglomerate.
> 
> BAF needs to just get them....Australia is also selling their efts that Indonesia wants to buy.... we should also check that out....


I agree.
If upgraded Tranche 1's cost significantly less than new Tranche 3's we should go for them. We need to get into the Western ecosystem of fighter jets. We have no other options for heavy fighters:

The Indians are complaining that the R-77s don't perform as advertised which is consistent with the deceitful nature of Russian suppliers. Thhere is also the issue of high down time of Sukhois. No point in getting Sukhois.

The Americans pose too many hoops and strings to buy their fighters.

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## Indos

mb444 said:


> As long as the damn thing can fire meteors and has tranche 2 radars its good enough to check rafales we face and completely overwhelm the simian conglomerate.
> 
> BAF needs to just get them....Australia is also selling their efts that Indonesia wants to buy.... we should also check that out....



Not Australia, but Austria. Although from what I view from Indonesian media reaction on the news, it seems the media and analyst opposes that idea.


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## Cryptic_distortion

Indos said:


> Not Australia, but Austria. Although from what I view from Indonesian media reaction on the news, it seems the media and analyst opposes that idea.


Indonesia already has SU-30, which is supposed to be excellent for air to air at least on paper? What is the point of pursuing EFT, instead of increasing Su 30s or F16s ? Better to let us have it


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## Indos

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Indonesia already has SU-30, which is supposed to be excellent for air to air at least on paper? What is the point of pursuing EFT, instead of increasing Su 30s or F16s ?



The only reason IMO is cheap offer from Austria and similar weapon with KFX/IFX and F16 Block 52. It only means to be stop gap for our previous F5 squadron. If the price is not cheap and the weapon is different with KFX and F16 so it will be bad decision to buy second hand Typhoon.


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## Nike

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Indonesia already has SU-30, which is supposed to be excellent for air to air at least on paper? What is the point of pursuing EFT, instead of increasing Su 30s or F16s ? Better to let us have it



Su 30 MK2 is more of bomb trucks


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## Destranator

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Indonesia already has SU-30, which is supposed to be excellent for air to air at least on paper? What is the point of pursuing EFT, instead of increasing Su 30s or F16s ? Better to let us have it


Can't blame Indonesia for that. What was BAF doing all this while? They have had approval to pursue fighter jets since 2008.

Mofos might screw it up even if Indonesia hands the Typhoons on a platter.

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## mb444

Indos said:


> Not Australia, but Austria. Although from what I view from Indonesian media reaction on the news, it seems the media and analyst opposes that idea.


Lol...Austria not Australia...damn predictive typing and lack of care on my part....


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2323931071248577









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=177863060439872

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## Destranator

I really like these bhotka bimans. We should upgrade them all with latest avionics. The addition of 1 x H model via FMS will take the number to double digits.

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=693631861214519





Huh ? I thought they already ordered Wing loong - 2 on two different occasions ?


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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=693631861214519
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh ? I thought they already ordered Wing loong - 2 on two different occasions ?


Posing for photos in front doesn't mean squat.


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## The Ronin

BAF is acquiring almost 158 acres of land near Barisal airport to construct it's new air base.



ghost250 said:


> one unit C-130H



This C-130H and WC-130 was old news i think. Al Beruni shared it here in 2018 if i remember correctly. If the C-130H is delivered then where is it? I hope you didn't share that same old data sheet Al Beruni did.

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## BlackViking

The Ronin said:


> BAF is acquiring almost 158 acres of land near Barisal airport to construct it's new air base.


Hope they won't keep those bases empty. Considering baf's current situation that is very much possible


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## The Ronin

The Bangladesh Air Force third C-130J, 99-5480 (S3-AGG, ex RAF ZH882) being towed out of Cambridge Airport Ground Running Enclosure (GRE) after the engine tests on the afternoon of July 23, 2020.

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## Cryptic_distortion

Hope they will be Towing, BAF EFTs soon.
By the way does anyone know what Bd will do with the $500 million of credit from India? 
It seems like Bd has to spend 65% of that money to buy defence equipment from India, and the remaining 35% could be used to buy equipment from a third country with Indian approval, might be best to return this 500m, we have been sitting on it for 2 years now.
I hope BAF does not surprise us by buying Tejas.


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## Michael Corleone

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Hope they will be Towing, BAF EFTs soon.
> By the way does anyone know what Bd will do with the $500 million of credit from India?
> It seems like Bd has to spend 65% of that money to buy defence equipment from India, and the remaining 35% could be used to buy equipment from a third country with Indian approval, might be best to return this 500m, we have been sitting on it for 2 years now.
> I hope BAF does not surprise us by buying Tejas.


Bd never took the money. They never approved any credit. Just talk


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## Cryptic_distortion

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd never took the money. They never approved any credit. Just talk


Thanks for the update, dont want to see Tejas in our colors


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> BAF is acquiring almost 158 acres of land near Barisal airport to construct it's new air base.
> 
> 
> 
> This C-130H and WC-130 was old news i think. Al Beruni shared it here in 2018 if i remember correctly. If the C-130H is delivered then where is it? I hope you didn't share that same old data sheet Al Beruni did.


Approved for sale. No transaction yet


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## Destranator

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Hope they will be Towing, BAF EFTs soon.
> By the way does anyone know what Bd will do with the $500 million of credit from India?
> It seems like Bd has to spend 65% of that money to buy defence equipment from India, and the remaining 35% could be used to buy equipment from a third country with Indian approval, might be best to return this 500m, we have been sitting on it for 2 years now.
> I hope BAF does not surprise us by buying Tejas.



Credit line does not work that way. The money is only released when items for purchase are pre-approved by the lender and orders placed. There is nothing to "return" if you do not buy anything.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Al-Ansar said:


> Credit line does not work that way. The money is only released when items for purchase are pre-approved by the lender and orders placed. There is nothing to "return" if you do not buy anything.




This, I'd have said as much but sometimes I'm too lazy to point these things out.

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## Bilal9

Cryptic_distortion said:


> Hope they will be Towing, BAF EFTs soon.
> By the way does anyone know what Bd will do with the $500 million of credit from India?
> It seems like Bd has to spend 65% of that money to buy defence equipment from India, and the remaining 35% could be used to buy equipment from a third country with Indian approval, might be best to return this 500m, we have been sitting on it for 2 years now.
> I hope BAF does not surprise us by buying Tejas.



Buying Tejas would be like sacrilege. 

An obsolete (cobbled together from imported parts esp. engine) fighter that hasn't finished development in two decades - even Indian AF had doubts of buying it, it sucks so bad. I hate to paint a product in nationalistic colors (it is just a machine after all), but the design and execution was so plagued with problems, very few countries or AF's in the world will even consider buying it as a defence offering. I'd much rather choose the JF-17 (FC-1) over it any day which will probably come from China for a lot less (free of sanction pressures) and Tranche III will be far more capable than the Tejas (Gnat revisited) will ever be.

Yeah I agree we don't have to utilize this defence 'credit'. It is a wolf in sheep's clothing, as our defence organizations very well know. If Aziz the RAW agent even tries this crap, they will make a nice example out of him.

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## DalalErMaNodi

I think BAF is too hell bent on procuring EFT and J-10C, maybe if they broadened their horizons shit, we'd have had something by now, atleast an announcement, If nothing else.


Current situation is pathetic, to say the least.

Very disappointed.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Buying Tejas would be like sacrilege.
> 
> An obsolete (cobbled together from imported parts esp. engine) fighter that hasn't finished development in two decades - even Indian AF had doubts of buying it, it sucks so bad. I hate to paint a product in nationalistic colors (it is just a machine after all), but the design and execution was so plagued with problems, very few countries or AF's in the world will even consider buying it as a defence offering. I'd much rather choose the JF-17 (FC-1) over it any day which will probably come from China for a lot less (free of sanction pressures) and Tranche III will be far more capable than the Tejas (Gnat revisited) will ever be.
> 
> Yeah I agree we don't have to utilize this defence 'credit'. It is a wolf in sheep's clothing, as our defence organizations very well know. If Aziz the RAW agent even tries this crap, they will make a nice example out of him.


I’m just waiting for that pleb to retire now


----------



## Destranator

The Ronin said:


>



Can we can get Marshall Aerospace to tow away the BAF leadership like this and "upgrade" them with brains and balls?

No fighter deal despite Govt approval, this is beyond pathetic.


----------



## The Ronin

How old the C-130H BAF is getting? Belgium Air Force has put up for sale nine 48 years old C-130Hs, spare parts, tools and other related support systems. If we don't get anymore C-130J from RAF and BAF still wants to extend it's transport fleet, wouldn't these be some good options?

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...cQuIPbtGT-rySsVLkOV1SZ75QGoaql6T4JCAAin3Wb5_A



BlackViking said:


> Tranche 1 can be upgraded to 3 ?





Avicenna said:


> As part of the upgrade, the company integrated Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, including a computer symbol generator, digital video and voice recorder, laser designator pod and maintenance data panel.



This news about Indonesia buying Austrian EFT says it's possible. But maybe it actually meant some Trench 3 equipment for upgrade like the news about Spanish EFT @Avicenna shared.

Austria’s Typhoons are from Tranche 1, a marker for basic operational capabilities, which focuses more on air-defense missions, while the consortium has offered upgrades to Tranches 2 and 3, which greatly improves the fighters’ ground attack capabilities.

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...-offers-to-buy-austrian-typhoon-fighters.html



BlackViking said:


> Hope they won't keep those bases empty. Considering baf's current situation that is very much possible



Well two new bases obviously mean BAF has some big plan. But it's action doesn't match that expectation. If it didn't stumble because of some issues perhaps we would've already seen some Russian fighters in BAF camo.



Al-Ansar said:


> Can we can get Marshall Aerospace to tow away the BAF leadership like this and "upgrade" them with brains and balls?
> 
> No fighter deal despite Govt approval, this is beyond pathetic.



Nobody seems to be talking about this now but i am quiet surprised that everyone including minister and air chief went completely silent about MR-SAM procurement after announcing it multiple times in parliament and parade. Allah knows what happened?!

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## BlackViking

The Ronin said:


> Nobody seems to be talking about this now but i am quiet surprised that everyone including minister and air chief went completely silent about MR-SAM procurement after announcing it multiple times in parliament. Allah knows what happened?!


May be same thing is happening to "western mrca" procurement..we will end up with some j10 may be


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## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> May be same thing is happening to "western mrca" procurement..we will end up with some j10 may be


Even J-10C looks like a far cry from reality right now.

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## Indos

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Even J-10C looks like a far cry from reality right now.



Any news from Bangladesh about your aviation university ? I heard Hasena want to build a university specialize in aviation.


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## The Ronin

Indos said:


> Any news from Bangladesh about your aviation university ? I heard Hasena want to build a university specialize in aviation.



Temporary campus is already open.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangla...adesh-s-first-aviation-university-is-launched
https://www.bsmraau.edu.bd/academic_post_graduate.php

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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Even J-10C looks like a far cry from reality right now.


Heard 16 j10c has been ordered...hopefully it's true


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## alphapak

Just checking BAF wiki page and it mentions an order of 8 Su 30 jets from Russia.
Is this true? Bangladesh needs to seriously build up its air force it is non existent
at the moment.


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## Destranator

alphapak said:


> Just checking BAF wiki page and it mentions an order of 8 Su 30 jets from Russia.
> Is this true? Bangladesh needs to seriously build up its air force it is non existent
> at the moment.


No more Russian jets. Anything they buy will be Chinese and/or Western.


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## Avicenna

alphapak said:


> Just checking BAF wiki page and it mentions an order of 8 Su 30 jets from Russia.
> Is this true? Bangladesh needs to seriously build up its air force it is non existent
> at the moment.



False.

No Su-30 for BD.

Apparently nothing so far for BD.


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## Pakistan Space Agency

If Bangladesh is not careful, India could take out it's Ladakh humiliated surrender anger on Bangladesh with occupation of some Bangladeshi land.

I am baffled that Bangladesh has a nominal GDP same as Pakistan but almost a non-existent military to defend it.

BAF needs to have at least some F-16s or J-10s in its inventory as both platforms are easily available without any restrictions.


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## Avicenna

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> If Bangladesh is not careful, India could take out it's Ladakh humiliated surrender anger on Bangladesh with occupation of some Bangladeshi land.
> 
> I am baffled that Bangladesh has a nominal GDP same as Pakistan but almost a non-existent military to defend it.
> 
> BAF needs to have at least some F-16s or J-10s in its inventory as both platforms are easily available without any restrictions.



I can't see any scenario where India will take Bangladeshi land.

And if for some reason they choose too, Bangladesh can't do anything about it.

Still, it is absolutely needed to increase the capabilities of the BD armed forces to at least make such an attempt by India as painful as possible.


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## alphapak

The best option if Bangladesh had a pro Pakistan government would of been
JF17 Thunder. I hope BAF goes for J10 fighter jets.


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## Michael Corleone

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> If Bangladesh is not careful, India could take out it's Ladakh humiliated surrender anger on Bangladesh with occupation of some Bangladeshi land.
> 
> I am baffled that Bangladesh has a nominal GDP same as Pakistan but almost a non-existent military to defend it.
> 
> BAF needs to have at least some F-16s or J-10s in its inventory as both platforms are easily available without any restrictions.


India will push for full annexation as part occupation would not be easy for them to sustain.



Indos said:


> Any news from Bangladesh about your aviation university ? I heard Hasena want to build a university specialize in aviation.


I think first batch session has started. Didn’t move to permanent facilities yet

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## Imran Khan

still waiting for new fighter jet of BAF

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## BlackViking

UAV's are coming in this year...but without armaments


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> UAV's are coming in this year...but without armaments


Wing long 2 you’re talking about?


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## mb444

BlackViking said:


> UAV's are coming in this year...but without armaments


If true another utterly pointless purchase.


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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> If true another utterly pointless purchase.


Why so? These are being procured for deployment in UN missions which is everything for BAF.

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Wing long 2 you’re talking about?


I'm not sure...I was just told uavs are coming without armaments..I asked about model but didn't get any rply


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## mb444

Al-Ansar said:


> Why so? These are being procured for deployment in UN missions which is everything for BAF.


Every nation buys stuff for its defense. Use in UN missions should be off secondary concern.

Why are we buying these.... we have minimal missile or air capacity. We should have bought armed UAV to help with both these deficiencies.

I just dont see the point in having these. If we see an enemy we have no way of hitting them. Its the same as all the investments in radars or YAKs. The only logical reason for having them is to give the leadership some time to run away.

Utterly nonsensical.

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## JohnWick

Bangladesh should consider the Turkmenistan
Air Force.A decent air force with 2 sq of mig-29 and 2 sq of ground attack Su-25....BAF should need atleast 2 sqs of any min 4th generation jet.
To counter at least 40 Su-30 mki deployed for Eastern front by India.


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## JohnWick

J-10 is rejected by PAF in 2008 due to some flaws in his designs....Rafale is a capable platform but with PL-15 400 km range BVR missiles of MAF jft and strings attached to it make it a difficult choice....Mig-35 and JFT are the only options left....JFT will not come until the Awami league government....Uncle Sam will not sell its F-16 unless a Soviet war like situation happens with BD.


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## mb444

JohnWick said:


> J-10 is rejected by PAF in 2008 due to some flaws in his designs....Rafale is a capable platform but with PL-15 400 km range BVR missiles of MAF jft and strings attached to it make it a difficult choice....Mig-35 and JFT are the only options left....JFT will not come until the Awami league government....Uncle Sam will not sell its F-16 unless a Soviet war like situation happens with BD.




EFT is there and available as well as the Gripen. The issue is not money but rather will....

Personally BD should only consider western option in my opinion.

We just need to see the rohingya debacle.....China wont favor BD in any way against india with whom they have economic relation many times more than BD.

BD needs to accept whatever strings and go western.


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## BlackViking

JohnWick said:


> J-10 is rejected by PAF in 2008 due to some flaws in his designs....Rafale is a capable platform but with PL-15 400 km range BVR missiles of MAF jft and strings attached to it make it a difficult choice....Mig-35 and JFT are the only options left....JFT will not come until the Awami league government....Uncle Sam will not sell its F-16 unless a Soviet war like situation happens with BD.


1.pl15's range is not 400km...nowhere near 400km but it's a good missile 
2.uncle Sam already offered F16 to baf.
3.baf will go neither for jft nor for mig35
Get yourself updated bruh


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## BanglarBagh

JohnWick said:


> J-10 is rejected by PAF in 2008 due to some flaws in his designs....Rafale is a capable platform but with PL-15 400 km range BVR missiles of MAF jft and strings attached to it make it a difficult choice....Mig-35 and JFT are the only options left....JFT will not come until the Awami league government....Uncle Sam will not sell its F-16 unless a Soviet war like situation happens with BD.



J-10 design flaw? 
What design flaw is he talking about? Do you know? @LKJ86


----------



## Michael Corleone

JohnWick said:


> J-10 is rejected by PAF in 2008 due to some flaws in his designs....Rafale is a capable platform but with PL-15 400 km range BVR missiles of MAF jft and strings attached to it make it a difficult choice....Mig-35 and JFT are the only options left....JFT will not come until the Awami league government....Uncle Sam will not sell its F-16 unless a Soviet war like situation happens with BD.


funny because if that were the case, the chinese would have had fielded jf-17 in it's fleet than j10...



mb444 said:


> EFT is there and available as well as the Gripen. The issue is not money but rather will....
> 
> Personally BD should only consider western option in my opinion.
> 
> We just need to see the rohingya debacle.....China wont favor BD in any way against india with whom they have economic relation many times more than BD.
> 
> BD needs to accept whatever strings and go western.


fact is by the time bd does decide to pull the trigger, they will be 2 generations behind in aerial warfare technology
like they have been for a long time. plus limited numbers means death sentence


----------



## JohnWick

BlackViking said:


> 1.pl15's range is not 400km...nowhere near 400km but it's a good missile
> 2.uncle Sam already offered F16 to baf.
> 3.baf will go neither for jft nor for mig35
> Get yourself updated bruh


For your delusion go check Wikipedia
For pl-15 range
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-15
Where uncle SAM offered F-16? Never heard of it.



BanglarBagh said:


> J-10 design flaw?
> What design flaw is he talking about? Do you know? @LKJ86


Yep PAF officers thoroughly inspected J-10 in Gen Musharraf era and sent a full load of paper work to (CAC)Chengdu Aircraft Corporation ....Air Vice Marshall rtd Shahid Lateef has a whole interview on J-10.



mb444 said:


> EFT is there and available as well as the Gripen. The issue is not money but rather will....
> 
> Personally BD should only consider western option in my opinion.
> 
> We just need to see the rohingya debacle.....China wont favor BD in any way against india with whom they have economic relation many times more than BD.
> 
> BD needs to accept whatever strings and go western.


Dear, the 50 years old PAF bases in Bangladesh were not designed to handle 4++ aircraft, they need a serious upgradation before procuring any western equipment.From radar hangers to the security systems.



Michael Corleone said:


> funny because if that were the case, the chinese would have had fielded jf-17 in it's fleet than j10...
> 
> 
> fact is by the time bd does decide to pull the trigger, they will be 2 generations behind in aerial warfare technology
> like they have been for a long time. plus limited numbers means death sentence


You should think it in the other way if J-10 is the real difference maker then PAF wasn't waste a single second to procure it....PAF has fought many aerial battle.... the last one is 27 feb and everyone knows what happens there....You should rather believe PAF.


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## mb444

JohnWick said:


> For your delusion go check Wikipedia
> For pl-15 range
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-15
> Where uncle SAM offered F-16? Never heard of it.
> 
> 
> Yep PAF officers thoroughly inspected J-10 in Gen Musharraf era and sent a full load of paper work to (CAC)Chengdu Aircraft Corporation ....Air Vice Marshall rtd Shahid Lateef has a whole interview on J-10.
> 
> 
> Dear, the 50 years old PAF bases in Bangladesh were not designed to handle 4++ aircraft, they need a serious upgradation before procuring any western equipment.From radar hangers to the security systems.
> 
> 
> You should think it in the other way if J-10 is the real difference maker then PAF wasn't waste a single second to procure it....PAF has fought many aerial battle.... the last one is 27 feb and everyone knows what happens there....You should rather believe PAF.




PAF has not fought many aerial battles...No one has....there has been no real wars between two equally equiped countries since WW2... you defeated the indians last year absolutely.... did a JF17 bring down IAF jet or was it a F16? Either way it was not a war.... is JF17 better than the J10.... possible but not probable. Pakistan is a very very junior partner to china in JF17s development. Logic dictates that as china is inducting J10 than it is the better plane.

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> funny because if that were the case, the chinese would have had fielded jf-17 in it's fleet than j10...
> 
> 
> fact is by the time bd does decide to pull the trigger, they will be 2 generations behind in aerial warfare technology
> like they have been for a long time. plus limited numbers means death sentence


JF-17 is primarily a Pakistani fighter jet created with joint Chinese support. Similar to Al Khalid tank and Al Zarrar tank, it was meant for Pakistan and not for China.


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## JohnWick

mb444 said:


> PAF has not fought many aerial battles...No one has....there has been no real wars between two equally equiped countries since WW2... you defeated the indians last year absolutely.... did a JF17 bring down IAF jet or was it a F16? Either way it was not a war.... is JF17 better than the J10.... possible but not probable. Pakistan is a very very junior partner to china in JF17s development. Logic dictates that as china is inducting J10 than it is the better plane.


PAF fought in 1948 1965 1971 1980s with
Soviets Israeli and Indian air force and shoot down their planes. Continually fighting for last 20 years with Taliban.On 27 feb jft locked at least 10 targets but the fire order did not come.

Pakistan has 52% share of jft development go do some study! The jft of MAF with Ruby serial numbers were built in PAC.

J-10 has Chinese Avionics on the other hand jft has western Avionics Tailor built for Pakistan and can be integrated with any western radar, missile and Pod....like Aselsan Pod from Turkey AIM-9 L sidewinder....In short This Dragon has now able to take down EFT Rafale and Gripen with Block 3 upgrade.



Michael Corleone said:


> you're so deluded they're of different class... pakistan already has f16s and it doesn't need j10s


The simplest definition of jft is an F-16 block 15 (remember the* Block 15 *word) with the different body and a glass cockpit .... I am sure any wise person will have his answer with this definition.


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## BlackViking

JohnWick said:


> For your delusion go check Wikipedia
> For pl-15 range


Ow I really wouldn't use wiki as a reference cause anyone can edit it dude


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## LKJ86

BanglarBagh said:


> J-10 design flaw?
> What design flaw is he talking about? Do you know? @LKJ86


There are always good reasons for Pakistan to not buy J-10 and F-16 at the same time.

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2327577080883976

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## Michael Corleone

JohnWick said:


> PAF fought in 1948 1965 1971 1980s with
> Soviets Israeli and Indian air force and shoot down their planes. Continually fighting for last 20 years with Taliban.On 27 feb jft locked at least 10 targets but the fire order did not come.
> 
> Pakistan has 52% share of jft development go do some study! The jft of MAF with Ruby serial numbers were built in PAC.
> 
> J-10 has Chinese Avionics on the other hand jft has western Avionics Tailor built for Pakistan and can be integrated with any western radar, missile and Pod....like Aselsan Pod from Turkey AIM-9 L sidewinder....In short This Dragon has now able to take down EFT Rafale and Gripen with Block 3 upgrade.
> 
> 
> The simplest definition of jft is an F-16 block 15 (remember the* Block 15 *word) with the different body and a glass cockpit .... I am sure any wise person will have his answer with this definition.


Where as a j10c is comparable to a block 50... completely different class



Buddhistforlife said:


> JF-17 is primarily a Pakistani fighter jet created with joint Chinese support. Similar to Al Khalid tank and Al Zarrar tank, it was meant for Pakistan and not for China.


Jf17 is an old Chinese project that itself stems from a old single engine Soviet project... blueprints brought and further developed, similar to j10


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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2327577080883976


Is this like Turkish herikks air defense early warning command and control system ?


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## JohnWick

BlackViking said:


> Ow I really wouldn't use wiki as a reference cause anyone can edit it dude


There are many other websites showing the same range....
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm


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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Where as a j10c is comparable to a block 50... completely different class
> 
> 
> Jf17 is an old Chinese project that itself stems from a old single engine Soviet project... blueprints brought and further developed, similar to j10


Tbh I don't like Chinese aircrafts at all. Most Chinese aircrafts are modified versions of Russian aircrafts.


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## The Ronin

BAF 99-5480 was outside for a while at midday, then pushed back inside. Her tiles are now complete on both sides, but there is an ongoing work on the wing.













BlackViking said:


> UAV's are coming in this year...but without armaments





Michael Corleone said:


> Wing long 2 you’re talking about?



Probably Falco UAV



mb444 said:


> If true another utterly pointless purchase.





mb444 said:


> Every nation buys stuff for its defense. Use in UN missions should be off secondary concern.
> 
> Why are we buying these.... we have minimal missile or air capacity. We should have bought armed UAV to help with both these deficiencies.
> 
> I just dont see the point in having these. If we see an enemy we have no way of hitting them. Its the same as all the investments in radars or YAKs. The only logical reason for having them is to give the leadership some time to run away.
> 
> Utterly nonsensical.



Mission requirement and operating cost!! You don't always need an UCAV for doing surveillance in small area for short time with no threat present. You need different types of UAV just like you need two type of MRCAs or various types of SAM. You don't shoot down helicopter with S-400 nor you use Mi-171sh for MSAR role. You think UN mission is secondary where our soldiers are at risk most?! Are you serious?! Don't go dictate yourself what BAF needs or not every time.

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## JohnWick

Michael Corleone said:


> Where as a j10c is comparable to a block 50... completely different class
> 
> 
> Jf17 is an old Chinese project that itself stems from a old single engine Soviet project... blueprints brought and further developed, similar to j10


We are using F-16 Block 50/52 + for last 12 years....the experience of thousands of flight hours of pilots is applied in the manufacturing of jft block 3....
As far as design is concerned the JF-17 is designed by the Ace designer Yang wei....the Mig-33 blue prints were used only for the concept of design just like *Mig-1.44 *used to make J-20.







I hope you will write educated
Post ahead.


----------



## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> BAF 99-5480 was outside for a while at midday, then pushed back inside. Her tiles are now complete on both sides, but there is an ongoing work on the wing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably Falco UAV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mission requirement and operating cost!! You don't always need an UCAV for doing surveillance in small area for short time with no threat present. You need different types of UAV just like you need two type of MRCAs or various types of SAM. You don't shoot down helicopter with S-400 nor you use Mi-171sh for MSAR role. You think UN mission is secondary where our soldiers are at risk most?! Are you serious?! Don't go dictate yourself what BAF needs or not and embarrass yourself.


Yo dude, why do they clear coat the entire plane but leave a square matte? Kind of weird. Seen it in c130b too until they got repainted



JohnWick said:


> We are using F-16 Block 50/52 + for last 12 years....the experience of thousands of flight hours of pilots is applied in the manufacturing of jft block 3....
> As far as design is concerned the JF-17 is designed by the Ace designer Yang wei....the Mig-33 blue prints were used only for the concept of design just like *Mig-1.44 *used to make J-20.
> View attachment 655828
> View attachment 655829
> 
> I hope you will write educated
> Post ahead.


Jf17 stems from the super 7 project based on blueprints the Chinese bought off USSR before it’s collapse
So most of it is developed by the Chinese, Pakistan for its share invested in the development project and now has 52% share in the project
Anyways this is irrelevant to the point of our discussion, you claimed jf17 is gamechanger compared to j10, I just put forward the facts
Oh and j20 has no little basis on mig 1.44, rather cyber espionage helped China with F22/35 blueprints



DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2327577080883976


They’re getting Kronos and ground master 400... weird why from two different source


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re getting Kronos and ground master 400... weird why from two different source



Different types of radar with different range for different party. Kronos is a C-band radar with 250km range and GM-400 is a S-band with 470km range. I don't remember which page said it (most likely DTB or Defseca) but remember them saying before that GM-400 is for army.

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Yo dude, why do they clear coat the entire plane but leave a square matte? Kind of weird. Seen it in c130b too until they got repainted
> 
> 
> Jf17 stems from the super 7 project based on blueprints the Chinese bought off USSR before it’s collapse
> So most of it is developed by the Chinese, Pakistan for its share invested in the development project and now has 52% share in the project
> Anyways this is irrelevant to the point of our discussion, you claimed jf17 is gamechanger compared to j10, I just put forward the facts
> Oh and j20 has no little basis on mig 1.44, rather cyber espionage helped China with F22/35 blueprints
> 
> 
> They’re getting Kronos and ground master 400... weird why from two different source


JF-17 is a good aircraft for its price. They destroyed Indian SU-30 last year and proved to be combat efficient


----------



## BlackViking

The Ronin said:


> Different types of radar with different range for different party. Kronos is a C-band radar with 250km range and GM-400 is a S-band with 470km range. I don't remember which page said it (most likely DTB or Defseca) but remember them saying before that GM-400 is for army.


Later they said not gm400..army is getting GM 200 if I remember correctly


----------



## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> JF-17 is a good aircraft for its price. They destroyed Indian SU-30 last year and proved to be combat efficient


yeah the su30 is highly debatable


----------



## mb444

JohnWick said:


> PAF fought in 1948 1965 1971 1980s with
> Soviets Israeli and Indian air force and shoot down their planes. Continually fighting for last 20 years with Taliban.On 27 feb jft locked at least 10 targets but the fire order did not come.
> 
> Pakistan has 52% share of jft development go do some study! The jft of MAF with Ruby serial numbers were built in PAC.
> 
> J-10 has Chinese Avionics on the other hand jft has western Avionics Tailor built for Pakistan and can be integrated with any western radar, missile and Pod....like Aselsan Pod from Turkey AIM-9 L sidewinder....In short This Dragon has now able to take down EFT Rafale and Gripen with Block 3 upgrade.
> 
> 
> The simplest definition of jft is an F-16 block 15 (remember the* Block 15 *word) with the different body and a glass cockpit .... I am sure any wise person will have his answer with this definition.



PAF never fought the russians directly in afganistan. In wars with india PAF fought well but never had any range to do critical damage....same as IAF never had range barring in BD in 1971.

PAF fought the talibans as a support role to your army. Do the talibans have any airforce.

My point was there has not been an airwar between any equally matched nation in ages, and I maintain that.

You are mistaken if you think I am criticizing the JF17. Its a good development for you and you have created something that have gotten you out of the bind that US put you in. You may have paid for 52% of the cost of development but that does not translate to innovation. JF17 is run on RD93 sourced by the Chinese from the russians or ws-13 which is still an experimental engine.

To the best of my knowledge you do not have capacity to develop jet engines, radars, EW suites or the body frames. You have capacity to assemble and tinker with them certainly but you do not have the tecnological base to create them from scratch. Neither does china fully yet but probably will do in a decade.

Only nations with full capacity to develop a fighter remains the US, UK, France, Russia and possibly Japan but i have my doubt on the last one.

JF17 is the product of bought in tech from many sources. That does not matter, the main thing is it works. JF17 vs J10 question in my mind is settled on the basis of where china is compared to pakistan in terms of tech.

Is F16 comparible to JFT? unless it went against one and beat it we do not know. Is JFT or J10 of any block comparible to similar blocks of EFT or raffles.... almost certainly not.


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> Where as a j10c is comparable to a block 50... completely different class
> 
> 
> Jf17 is an old Chinese project that itself stems from a old single engine Soviet project... blueprints brought and further developed, similar to j10


i agree with you about old project but then every plane is old program of some fighter jet . its not means anythign sir 

for example f-16 then 





f-16 now







jf-17 as project super-7







jf-17 now

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## BlackViking

Btw @The Ronin bhai do u have any idea about some drones from "Changshu Yitian aviation" for army ?


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## JohnWick

Michael Corleone said:


> Yo dude, why do they clear coat the entire plane but leave a square matte? Kind of weird. Seen it in c130b too until they got repainted
> 
> 
> Jf17 stems from the super 7 project based on blueprints the Chinese bought off USSR before it’s collapse
> So most of it is developed by the Chinese, Pakistan for its share invested in the development project and now has 52% share in the project
> Anyways this is irrelevant to the point of our discussion, you claimed jf17 is gamechanger compared to j10, I just put forward the facts
> Oh and j20 has no little basis on mig 1.44, rather cyber espionage helped China with F22/35 blueprints
> 
> 
> They’re getting Kronos and ground master 400... weird why from two different source


The stealth technology is from 1980s nearly 40 years old from F-117 Night Hawk.







It took Chinese 40 years to understand/copy this technology but yet still can not fully compare able with F-22 Raptor.
A far as your cyber theory is concerned these stealth fighter were mainly built in Nevada air base the Area 51....with highly secured area of the whole world....China would not be able to stole this information....
Chinese always copy and modify designs just like 
Su-27----J-11 J-16Su-34----J-15Mig-21----J-7 IAI lavi---J-10.
Which aircraft BAF goona purchase????

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

JohnWick said:


> The stealth technology is from 1980s nearly 40 years old from F-117 Night Hawk.
> View attachment 655972
> View attachment 655973
> 
> It took Chinese 40 years to understand/copy this technology but yet still can not fully compare able with F-22 Raptor.
> A far as your cyber theory is concerned these stealth fighter were mainly built in Nevada air base the Area 51....with highly secured area of the whole world....China would not be able to stole this information....
> Chinese always copy and modify designs just like
> Su-27----J-11 J-16Su-34----J-15Mig-21----J-7 IAI lavi---J-10.
> Which aircraft BAF goona purchase????


@Michael Corleone and @JohnWick do you guys read about Italian renaissance ? Leonardo da vinci / michelangelo/rafael all these greatest artists were copy paster of Greek arts . they were making copies of ancient greet art many years . and then days came when they start making art better then original Greek art and became legends of world .humanity survived on copy of knowledge all of our history is full of copy paste and then make things better then original . how many tech USA and west/USSR stole or took from Germany after ww2 ? i think humanity continue with copy of past and making things better for future . its because world is now more sensitive about intellectual property rights that is why its being noted .china will cross US and west TECH one day if they keep working this speed .

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## JohnWick

mb444 said:


> PAF never fought the russians directly in afganistan. In wars with india PAF fought well but never had any range to do critical damage....same as IAF never had range barring in BD in 1971.
> 
> PAF fought the talibans as a support role to your army. Do the talibans have any airforce.
> 
> My point was there has not been an airwar between any equally matched nation in ages, and I maintain that.
> 
> You are mistaken if you think I am criticizing the JF17. Its a good development for you and you have created something that have gotten you out of the bind that US put you in.
> 
> However to the best of my knowledge you do not have capacity to develop jet engines, radars, EW suites or the body frames. You have capacity to assemble and tinker with them certainly but you do not have the tecnological base to create them from scratch. Neither does china fully yet but probably will do in a decade.
> 
> Only nations with full capacity to develop a fighter remains the US, UK, France, Russia and possibly Japan but i have my doubt on the last one.


Dear, Actually F-16 was the best thing ever happened to Pakistan....It built the foundation of JF-17.... Absolutely PAF is bombarding Taliban hideouts in Pakistan for last 20 years.What would you think ground role is not important?
As for a major share in jft development all the tech of Radar EW etc are given as a TOT to Pakistan....Pakistan can modify integrate jft with different ammunitions and EWpods just like R darter Aim-9 L and Aselsan Targeting pod.... PAC has become a master in RD-93 engines....It also make RD-93 nearly smoke free.
As a result the Project Azm stealth fighter is going to totally built from scratch in Pakistan....
Which aircraft you are gonna purchase?


----------



## Imran Khan

mb444 said:


> PAF never fought the russians directly in afganistan. In wars with india PAF fought well but never had any range to do critical damage....same as IAF never had range barring in BD in 1971.
> 
> PAF fought the talibans as a support role to your army. Do the talibans have any airforce.
> 
> My point was there has not been an airwar between any equally matched nation in ages, and I maintain that.
> 
> You are mistaken if you think I am criticizing the JF17. Its a good development for you and you have created something that have gotten you out of the bind that US put you in. You may have paid for 52% of the cost of development but that does not translate to innovation. JF17 is run on RD93 sourced by the Chinese from the russians or ws-13 which is still an experimental engine.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge you do not have capacity to develop jet engines, radars, EW suites or the body frames. You have capacity to assemble and tinker with them certainly but you do not have the tecnological base to create them from scratch. Neither does china fully yet but probably will do in a decade.
> 
> Only nations with full capacity to develop a fighter remains the US, UK, France, Russia and possibly Japan but i have my doubt on the last one.
> 
> JF17 is the product of bought in tech from many sources. That does not matter, the main thing is it works. JF17 vs J10 question in my mind is settled on the basis of where china is compared to pakistan in terms of tech.
> 
> Is F16 comparible to JFT? unless it went against one and beat it we do not know. Is JFT or J10 of any block comparible to similar blocks of EFT or raffles.... almost certainly not.


so shooting down 8 Russian/afghan aircrafts were joke ? please read this thread too 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sovi...an-air-force-during-soviet-afghan-war.288653/


Pak-Soviet air-confrontations

The PAF and Soviet union during the (Soviet -Afghan war) were not on best terms , aside from proxy warfare the two also had multiple engagements in the air as well ...

Background






During the Soviet Afghan war, the Soviets suffered many air losses at the hands of Mujahideen forces due to use of stinger missiles supplied by USA through Pakistan. Because of this many soviet planes started flying close to or even inside Pakistani air space to get around them. At first it was non combat aircraft but soon fighter and other air craft also began doing this resulting in clashes between the Pakistani air force.

Interesting fact :

The PAF holds a perfect 10-0 kill ratio losing no air craft at the hands of soviets.





Confrontations :





.

.

...

[[[17 May 1986 Sqn. Ldr. A. Hameed Qadri

No. 9 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon

(S. No. 82-723)

PAF Sargodha 2 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s Shot down both Su-22s in a single sortie 16,000 ft.over Parachinar, Pakistan. 1 AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill, 1 Gun Kill.]]]

.

.

...

[[[30 March 1987 Wng. Cdr. Abdul Razzaq

No. 9 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon

PAF Sargodha 1 Soviet/Afghan An-26 Shot down near Miranshah, Pakistan while on a recce mission.]]]

.

.

...

[[[16 April 1987 Sqn. Ldr. Badar Islam

No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet/Afghan Su-22 Shot down after strafing Pakistani villages near Tull, Pakistan along with another Su-22 and with a pair of MiG-23MLDs flying top cover. Remaining 3 aircraft bugged out.]]]

.

.

...

[[[8 April 1988 Sqn. Ldr. Athar Bokhari

No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon

(S. No. 85-725)

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet Su-25

Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, Soviet Air Force (ejected) 1 PAF F-16 Vs. 4 Soviet Su-25s. Night interception over Parachinar, Pakistan. AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill. Remaining 3 Su-25s bugged out. Soviet Su-25 pilot, Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, (later Vice-President of Russia) was taken prisoner by Pakistani authorities.]]]

.

.

...

[[[12 September 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood

No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon

(S. No. 85-728) PAF Minhas (Kamra) 2 Soviet MiG-23MLDs 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet MiG-23s. Near Nawagai border area with Pakistan. Both Kills in a single sortie with AIM-9L and AIM-9P Sidewinders.]]]

.

.

...

[[[3 November 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood

No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon

(S. No. 84-717)

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Afghan Air Force Su-22

Capt. Hashim, AAF (ejected) 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s. (3 on ground attack and 3 flying top cover) near Tull, Pakistan. Kill made with 2 AIM-9L Sidewinders. Afghan pilot, Capt. Hashim, was captured after bailing out.]]]

.

.

...

[[[20/21 November 1988 Muhammad Abbas Khattak

No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-26 Shot down while on a recce mission inside Pakistan. PAF pilot later Chief of the Air Staff, PAF, 1994-1997.]]]

.

.

.

[[[31 January 1989 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood

No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16B Fighting Falcon

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-24 Night interception near Bannu, Pakistan while on a solo 'hot scramble'. An-24 on bombing run crashed while attempting to surrender. Thus credited as 'manoeuvre kill'.]]]





Sources

Defence pk

History of PAF (Wikipedia)

Pakistan Soviet Union relations ( Wikipedia)

------------------------------------------------

This has been falcon and hope you enjoyed this months war history , until next time Blitz out





*Share to*


*Pakistan’s F-16s Battled Soviet Jets—and Shot Down the Future Vice President of Russia*
Tragedy.

by Sebastien Roblin
In 1977, General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq overthrew Pakistan’s civilian president in a coup. He proceeded to institute hardline Islamist laws throughout Pakistan, and began rebuilding Pakistani military power after its humiliating defeat in a 1971 war with India.

Following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, Washington found that Zia’s policies dovetailed conveniently with getting Pakistani assistance in supporting Mujahideen insurgents fighting Communist forces. Thus, Pakistani and U.S. agents collaborated in organizing and arming militants proliferating in Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan.

In retaliation, Soviet and Democratic Republic of Afghanistan Air Force (DRAAF) jet bombers began crossing into Pakistani airspace to blast those refugee camps. The Pakistani military deployed J-6 fighters (Chinese-built MiG-19 clones) capable of Mach 1 speed and two radars to defend the border, but these proved too slow and the patrol and radar coverage too spotty, so none of the raids were intercepted.

Thus in 1981, Zia persuaded the Reagan administration to authorize sale of forty F-16As and two-seat F-16Bs, which would be received between 1983-1986. The then cutting-edge fourth-generation fighter was affordable, extremely maneuverable due to its aerodynamically unstable design (compensated for with fly-by-wire controls), and could still attain high speeds and carry heavy payloads.

However, early production F-16s lacked the capability to fire radar-guided beyond-visual range missiles. This meant Pakistani Falcons needed to get up close to their opponents to use their AIM-9P and more advanced AIM-9L Sidewinder heat-seeking missiles—or their 20-millimeter Vulcan cannons.

In 1986, the F-16s of the PAF’s No. 9 Griffin and 14 Shaheen squadrons were finally ready to begin flying combat air patrols along the Afghan border. That year, Soviet and Afghan forces began a series of offensive targeting mujahideen bases in the Panshir valley, supported with intensified bombardments of refugee camps. 

On May 17, 1986 two F-16As were vectored towards two DRAAF Su-22M3K penetrating Pakistani airspace near Parachinar. The Sukhois were rugged swing-wing supersonic fighter bombers that often suffered heavy losses in Cold War conflicts.

The PAF F-16s closed within six miles and Squadron Leader Hameed Qadri launched a Sidewinder which failed to hit. The Su-22 promptly belted back for the Afghan border. Qadri fired off a second AIM-9L which first flew wide off the Sukhoi, then curled around and slammed into its target.

In an account published by the PAF, Qadri describes that he raced towards the second Su-22, which he engaged with a gun:

“The other aircraft was in a left turn. His radius of turn and my energy state gave me enough confidence that I could easily achieve kill parameters both with missile and guns. During the turn, I found myself hitting the fringes of AIM-9P missile. I pulled a high yo-yo as I was in a totally offensive position. My target was now in a nose-down and heading towards Afghan territory. After apexing, I quickly rolled back and fired a three-second burst on the exiting Su-22. I stopped firing when a trail of smoke and flash from his aircraft confirmed a lethal kill. Through a split 'S', I headed east of Parachinar.“

However, the Afghan Air Force confirmed losing only one jet, though the engagement led to a major decrease in attacks on refugee camps. Furthermore, the Soviet VVS deployed MiG-23MLD fighters to protect Afghan Su-22s.

Qadri encountered the MiGs a month later, but neither side opened fire. Nearly a year later on April 16 1987, F-16s chased down DRAAF Su-22s again near Thal, managing to overtake the supersonic jets despite having to attack from lower altitude. Squadron Leader Badar-us-Islam shot down the Sukhoi of Lt. Col. Abdul Jameel, who ejected and was captured on Pakistani soil.

By 1987, Soviets records indicate that Pakistani fighters had begun roaming into Afghan airspace—particularly harassing efforts to provide aerial resupply to besieged garrisons like Khost, only ten miles across the border.

On March 30, 1987 two F-16s intercepted an An-26 twin-turboprop cargo plane near Khost, each striking it with one Sidewinder from just under a mile away. The ponderous cargo plane crashed into the snowy mountains below, killing all 39 aboard. Over the course of the conflict, Pakistani F-16 pilots also claimed the destruction of several Mi-8 transports helicopter, another An-26 on a reconnaissance mission in 1989, and a maneuver kill versus an An-24 transport which was actually attempting to defect.

However, the Pakistani fighter jock’s luck turned two weeks later when two No.9 Squadron F-16s ambushed four MiG-23s of the Soviet 120th Fighter Regiment as they plastered a mujahideen supply bases in Djaware, Pakistan with cluster bombs. As Soviet Lt. Col. Pochitalkin led his unit in evasive maneuvers he saw an airplane plummet towards the earth in flames below him.

This was not a MiG, but the F-16 of Lt. Shahi Sikander, who had inadvertently been acquired by an AIM-9L fired by his wingman. Sikander parachuted down to Afghan soil, where he and the wreckage of his plane were smuggled back to Pakistan by Mujahideen. Some Russian sources claim Sikander was actually shot down by a Soviet jet—though the MiGs were not carrying air-to-air missiles—or had somehow plowed into the rain of cluster bomblets.

In 1988, as Soviet ground forces withdrew from Afghanistan, DRAAF and Soviet aviation units began a ferocious new bombardment campaign in a last-ditch effort to save the crumbling Afghan Communist government.

On August 8, Col Alexander Rutskoy, commander of a regiment of slow but heavily armored Su-25 Frogfoot attack jets—was leading a night raid on the Maranshah refugee camp when his four-ship flight was bounced by two F-16As of the 14th fighter squadron. Rutskoy turned hard towards the F-16s, perhaps seeking to draw them away, and believing the heat-seeking missile would lose its track if his plane’s hot tail-pipe was facing away from it. But the AIM-9L was designed to engage targets from all aspects, and the detonations of its proximity warhead broke the “flying tank” in two.

Rutskoy ejected over Pakistani soil and was captured. Exchanged back to Russia, he was decorated as a hero of the Soviet Union and went onto become vice president of Russia under Boris Yeltsin, before leading an attempted coup in 1993.

A month after Rutskoy’s shootdown, a formation of twelve Soviet MiG-23s—eight loaded with bombs, and four carrying R-24 air-to-air missiles, zipped into Pakistani airspace near the Kunar valley at 32,000 feet—probably seeking to lure PAF F-16s into an ambush.

Obligingly, two F-16s raced towards the swing-wing fighters at only 11,000 feet. However, the Soviet radars failed to detect the lower-flying F-16s amidst the ground clutter. A Sidewinder fired at a steep angle by Squadron Leader Khalid Mahmood managed to riddle one MiG-23 with shrapnel, which limped back home for a crash landing. Two MiGs peeled away to engage the F-16s in a dogfight. But while Pakistani pilots claimed two MiG-23 kills, Soviet records show no additional aircraft were lost.

On November 3, 1988 the PAF would bag its final jet kill when Lt. Khalid Mahmood shot down a DRAAF Su-2M4K. Pakistan formally credits its F-16 pilots with 10 kills during the conflict, while Soviet records confirm the loss of three Su-22s, an Su-25 and An-26. Some sources claim the PAF shot down at least a dozen more aircraft during the Soviet war in Afghanistan which ostensibly were not formally credited because they involved violations of Afghan airspace. Those interested in a more extensive accounting of the Pakistani-Afghan air battles are recommended to consult the following compilations of Pakistani air combat narratives.

_Sébastien Roblin holds a master’s degree in conflict resolution from Georgetown University and served as a university instructor for the Peace Corps in China. He has also worked in education, editing, and refugee resettlement in France and the United States. He currently writes on security and military history for War Is Boring._

_Image: Wikimedia_

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## mb444

JohnWick said:


> Dear, Actually F-16 was the best thing ecmver happened to Pakistan....It built the foundation of JF-17.... Absolutely PAF is bombarding Taliban hideouts in Pakistan for last 20 years.What would you thing ground role is not important?
> As for a major share in jft development all the tech of Radar EW etc are given as a TOT to pakistan....Pakistan can modify integrate jft with different ammunitions and EWpods just like R darter Aim-9 L and Aselsan Targeting pod.... PAC has become a master in RD-93 engines....It also make RD-93 nearly smoke free.
> As a result the Project Azm stealth fight is going to totally built from scratch in Pakistan....
> Which aircraft you are gonna purchase?


 If you can master the tech and then improve on it then good for you. Time will tell.

As to what BAF is going to buy its any ones guess. They seem to lack strategic vision. My hope is EFT. I personally do not want russian or chinese jets at all. 

We can not afford many western jet but i would rather have a few of those than J10s in numbers. 

But these are all conjectures in my part. BAF as i said lacks strategic direction and we will probably end up with loads more trainers and 4th generation jets when others start to induct 5th generation jets. Such is life...



Imran Khan said:


> so shooting down 8 Russian/afghan aircrafts were joke ? please read this thread too
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sovi...an-air-force-during-soviet-afghan-war.288653/
> 
> 
> Pak-Soviet air-confrontations
> 
> The PAF and Soviet union during the (Soviet -Afghan war) were not on best terms , aside from proxy warfare the two also had multiple engagements in the air as well ...
> 
> Background
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the Soviet Afghan war, the Soviets suffered many air losses at the hands of Mujahideen forces due to use of stinger missiles supplied by USA through Pakistan. Because of this many soviet planes started flying close to or even inside Pakistani air space to get around them. At first it was non combat aircraft but soon fighter and other air craft also began doing this resulting in clashes between the Pakistani air force.
> 
> Interesting fact :
> 
> The PAF holds a perfect 10-0 kill ratio losing no air craft at the hands of soviets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Confrontations :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...
> 
> [[[17 May 1986 Sqn. Ldr. A. Hameed Qadri
> 
> No. 9 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
> 
> (S. No. 82-723)
> 
> PAF Sargodha 2 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s Shot down both Su-22s in a single sortie 16,000 ft.over Parachinar, Pakistan. 1 AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill, 1 Gun Kill.]]]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...
> 
> [[[30 March 1987 Wng. Cdr. Abdul Razzaq
> 
> No. 9 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
> 
> PAF Sargodha 1 Soviet/Afghan An-26 Shot down near Miranshah, Pakistan while on a recce mission.]]]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...
> 
> [[[16 April 1987 Sqn. Ldr. Badar Islam
> 
> No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
> 
> PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet/Afghan Su-22 Shot down after strafing Pakistani villages near Tull, Pakistan along with another Su-22 and with a pair of MiG-23MLDs flying top cover. Remaining 3 aircraft bugged out.]]]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...
> 
> [[[8 April 1988 Sqn. Ldr. Athar Bokhari
> 
> No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
> 
> (S. No. 85-725)
> 
> PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet Su-25
> 
> Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, Soviet Air Force (ejected) 1 PAF F-16 Vs. 4 Soviet Su-25s. Night interception over Parachinar, Pakistan. AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill. Remaining 3 Su-25s bugged out. Soviet Su-25 pilot, Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, (later Vice-President of Russia) was taken prisoner by Pakistani authorities.]]]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...
> 
> [[[12 September 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
> 
> No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
> 
> (S. No. 85-728) PAF Minhas (Kamra) 2 Soviet MiG-23MLDs 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet MiG-23s. Near Nawagai border area with Pakistan. Both Kills in a single sortie with AIM-9L and AIM-9P Sidewinders.]]]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...
> 
> [[[3 November 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
> 
> No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
> 
> (S. No. 84-717)
> 
> PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Afghan Air Force Su-22
> 
> Capt. Hashim, AAF (ejected) 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s. (3 on ground attack and 3 flying top cover) near Tull, Pakistan. Kill made with 2 AIM-9L Sidewinders. Afghan pilot, Capt. Hashim, was captured after bailing out.]]]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...
> 
> [[[20/21 November 1988 Muhammad Abbas Khattak
> 
> No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
> 
> PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-26 Shot down while on a recce mission inside Pakistan. PAF pilot later Chief of the Air Staff, PAF, 1994-1997.]]]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> [[[31 January 1989 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
> 
> No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16B Fighting Falcon
> 
> PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-24 Night interception near Bannu, Pakistan while on a solo 'hot scramble'. An-24 on bombing run crashed while attempting to surrender. Thus credited as 'manoeuvre kill'.]]]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sources
> 
> Defence pk
> 
> History of PAF (Wikipedia)
> 
> Pakistan Soviet Union relations ( Wikipedia)
> 
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> This has been falcon and hope you enjoyed this months war history , until next time Blitz out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Share to*
> 
> 
> *Pakistan’s F-16s Battled Soviet Jets—and Shot Down the Future Vice President of Russia*
> Tragedy.
> 
> by Sebastien Roblin
> In 1977, General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq overthrew Pakistan’s civilian president in a coup. He proceeded to institute hardline Islamist laws throughout Pakistan, and began rebuilding Pakistani military power after its humiliating defeat in a 1971 war with India.
> 
> Following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, Washington found that Zia’s policies dovetailed conveniently with getting Pakistani assistance in supporting Mujahideen insurgents fighting Communist forces. Thus, Pakistani and U.S. agents collaborated in organizing and arming militants proliferating in Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan.
> 
> In retaliation, Soviet and Democratic Republic of Afghanistan Air Force (DRAAF) jet bombers began crossing into Pakistani airspace to blast those refugee camps. The Pakistani military deployed J-6 fighters (Chinese-built MiG-19 clones) capable of Mach 1 speed and two radars to defend the border, but these proved too slow and the patrol and radar coverage too spotty, so none of the raids were intercepted.
> 
> Thus in 1981, Zia persuaded the Reagan administration to authorize sale of forty F-16As and two-seat F-16Bs, which would be received between 1983-1986. The then cutting-edge fourth-generation fighter was affordable, extremely maneuverable due to its aerodynamically unstable design (compensated for with fly-by-wire controls), and could still attain high speeds and carry heavy payloads.
> 
> However, early production F-16s lacked the capability to fire radar-guided beyond-visual range missiles. This meant Pakistani Falcons needed to get up close to their opponents to use their AIM-9P and more advanced AIM-9L Sidewinder heat-seeking missiles—or their 20-millimeter Vulcan cannons.
> 
> In 1986, the F-16s of the PAF’s No. 9 Griffin and 14 Shaheen squadrons were finally ready to begin flying combat air patrols along the Afghan border. That year, Soviet and Afghan forces began a series of offensive targeting mujahideen bases in the Panshir valley, supported with intensified bombardments of refugee camps.
> 
> On May 17, 1986 two F-16As were vectored towards two DRAAF Su-22M3K penetrating Pakistani airspace near Parachinar. The Sukhois were rugged swing-wing supersonic fighter bombers that often suffered heavy losses in Cold War conflicts.
> 
> The PAF F-16s closed within six miles and Squadron Leader Hameed Qadri launched a Sidewinder which failed to hit. The Su-22 promptly belted back for the Afghan border. Qadri fired off a second AIM-9L which first flew wide off the Sukhoi, then curled around and slammed into its target.
> 
> In an account published by the PAF, Qadri describes that he raced towards the second Su-22, which he engaged with a gun:
> 
> “The other aircraft was in a left turn. His radius of turn and my energy state gave me enough confidence that I could easily achieve kill parameters both with missile and guns. During the turn, I found myself hitting the fringes of AIM-9P missile. I pulled a high yo-yo as I was in a totally offensive position. My target was now in a nose-down and heading towards Afghan territory. After apexing, I quickly rolled back and fired a three-second burst on the exiting Su-22. I stopped firing when a trail of smoke and flash from his aircraft confirmed a lethal kill. Through a split 'S', I headed east of Parachinar.“
> 
> However, the Afghan Air Force confirmed losing only one jet, though the engagement led to a major decrease in attacks on refugee camps. Furthermore, the Soviet VVS deployed MiG-23MLD fighters to protect Afghan Su-22s.
> 
> Qadri encountered the MiGs a month later, but neither side opened fire. Nearly a year later on April 16 1987, F-16s chased down DRAAF Su-22s again near Thal, managing to overtake the supersonic jets despite having to attack from lower altitude. Squadron Leader Badar-us-Islam shot down the Sukhoi of Lt. Col. Abdul Jameel, who ejected and was captured on Pakistani soil.
> 
> By 1987, Soviets records indicate that Pakistani fighters had begun roaming into Afghan airspace—particularly harassing efforts to provide aerial resupply to besieged garrisons like Khost, only ten miles across the border.
> 
> On March 30, 1987 two F-16s intercepted an An-26 twin-turboprop cargo plane near Khost, each striking it with one Sidewinder from just under a mile away. The ponderous cargo plane crashed into the snowy mountains below, killing all 39 aboard. Over the course of the conflict, Pakistani F-16 pilots also claimed the destruction of several Mi-8 transports helicopter, another An-26 on a reconnaissance mission in 1989, and a maneuver kill versus an An-24 transport which was actually attempting to defect.
> 
> However, the Pakistani fighter jock’s luck turned two weeks later when two No.9 Squadron F-16s ambushed four MiG-23s of the Soviet 120th Fighter Regiment as they plastered a mujahideen supply bases in Djaware, Pakistan with cluster bombs. As Soviet Lt. Col. Pochitalkin led his unit in evasive maneuvers he saw an airplane plummet towards the earth in flames below him.
> 
> This was not a MiG, but the F-16 of Lt. Shahi Sikander, who had inadvertently been acquired by an AIM-9L fired by his wingman. Sikander parachuted down to Afghan soil, where he and the wreckage of his plane were smuggled back to Pakistan by Mujahideen. Some Russian sources claim Sikander was actually shot down by a Soviet jet—though the MiGs were not carrying air-to-air missiles—or had somehow plowed into the rain of cluster bomblets.
> 
> In 1988, as Soviet ground forces withdrew from Afghanistan, DRAAF and Soviet aviation units began a ferocious new bombardment campaign in a last-ditch effort to save the crumbling Afghan Communist government.
> 
> On August 8, Col Alexander Rutskoy, commander of a regiment of slow but heavily armored Su-25 Frogfoot attack jets—was leading a night raid on the Maranshah refugee camp when his four-ship flight was bounced by two F-16As of the 14th fighter squadron. Rutskoy turned hard towards the F-16s, perhaps seeking to draw them away, and believing the heat-seeking missile would lose its track if his plane’s hot tail-pipe was facing away from it. But the AIM-9L was designed to engage targets from all aspects, and the detonations of its proximity warhead broke the “flying tank” in two.
> 
> Rutskoy ejected over Pakistani soil and was captured. Exchanged back to Russia, he was decorated as a hero of the Soviet Union and went onto become vice president of Russia under Boris Yeltsin, before leading an attempted coup in 1993.
> 
> A month after Rutskoy’s shootdown, a formation of twelve Soviet MiG-23s—eight loaded with bombs, and four carrying R-24 air-to-air missiles, zipped into Pakistani airspace near the Kunar valley at 32,000 feet—probably seeking to lure PAF F-16s into an ambush.
> 
> Obligingly, two F-16s raced towards the swing-wing fighters at only 11,000 feet. However, the Soviet radars failed to detect the lower-flying F-16s amidst the ground clutter. A Sidewinder fired at a steep angle by Squadron Leader Khalid Mahmood managed to riddle one MiG-23 with shrapnel, which limped back home for a crash landing. Two MiGs peeled away to engage the F-16s in a dogfight. But while Pakistani pilots claimed two MiG-23 kills, Soviet records show no additional aircraft were lost.
> 
> On November 3, 1988 the PAF would bag its final jet kill when Lt. Khalid Mahmood shot down a DRAAF Su-2M4K. Pakistan formally credits its F-16 pilots with 10 kills during the conflict, while Soviet records confirm the loss of three Su-22s, an Su-25 and An-26. Some sources claim the PAF shot down at least a dozen more aircraft during the Soviet war in Afghanistan which ostensibly were not formally credited because they involved violations of Afghan airspace. Those interested in a more extensive accounting of the Pakistani-Afghan air battles are recommended to consult the following compilations of Pakistani air combat narratives.
> 
> _Sébastien Roblin holds a master’s degree in conflict resolution from Georgetown University and served as a university instructor for the Peace Corps in China. He has also worked in education, editing, and refugee resettlement in France and the United States. He currently writes on security and military history for War Is Boring._
> 
> _Image: Wikimedia_




You had some skirmishes yes.... imagine the state of PAF if you went against the full might of USSR.....


----------



## JohnWick

mb444 said:


> Is F16 comparible to JFT? unless it went against one and beat it we do not know. Is JFT or J10 of any block comparible to similar blocks of EFT or raffles.... almost certainly not.


Jft goes against F-16 daily here in Pakistan with a red flag like dog fight simulation and the data is gathered continuously from the engagement to improve jft.This data is incorporated in the development of block3.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> @Michael Corleone and @JohnWick do you guys read about Italian renaissance ? Leonardo da vinci / michelangelo/rafael all these greatest artists were copy paster of Greek arts . they were making copies of ancient greet art many years . and then days came when they start making art better then original Greek art and became legends of world .humanity survived on copy of knowledge all of our history is full of copy paste and then make things better then original . how many tech USA and west/USSR stole or took from Germany after ww2 ? i think humanity continue with copy of past and making things better for future . its because world is now more sensitive about intellectual property rights that is why its being noted .china will cross US and west TECH one day if they keep working this speed .


I am certainly not dissing Pakistan here. Just trying to be realistic here with your friend



JohnWick said:


> The stealth technology is from 1980s nearly 40 years old from F-117 Night Hawk.
> View attachment 655972
> View attachment 655973
> 
> It took Chinese 40 years to understand/copy this technology but yet still can not fully compare able with F-22 Raptor.
> A far as your cyber theory is concerned these stealth fighter were mainly built in Nevada air base the Area 51....with highly secured area of the whole world....China would not be able to stole this information....
> Chinese always copy and modify designs just like
> Su-27----J-11 J-16Su-34----J-15Mig-21----J-7 IAI lavi---J-10.
> Which aircraft BAF goona purchase????


If we’re being realistic. Horten 229 was the first demonstration of a stealth aircraft


----------



## mb444

JohnWick said:


> Jft goes against F-16 daily here in Pakistan with a red flag like dog fight simulation and the data is gathered continuously from the engagement to improve jft.This data is incorporated in the development of block3.


 Do you have a single full capacity F16....no.... US never sold you one.... even the Israelis do not have F16s with the capabilities that US has.


----------



## Imran Khan

mb444 said:


> If you can master the tech and then improve on it then good for you. Time will tell.
> 
> As to what BAF is going to buy its any ones guess. They seem to lack strategic vision. My hope is EFT. I personally do not want russian or chinese jets at all.
> 
> We can not afford many western jet but i would rather have a few of those than J10s in numbers.
> 
> But these are all conjectures in my part. BAF as i said lacks strategic direction and we will probably end up with loads more trainers and 4th generation jets when others start to induct 5th generation jets. Such is life...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had some skirmishes yes.... imagine the state of PAF if you went against the full might of USSR.....


you want us to go and mess with mighty super power ? are you serious ? its take great courage to shot down soviet aircraft in 1980s . a country loaded with hydrogen bomb and thousands of aircrafts yet PAF dare to shot them down . even today can you name how many nato aircraft shot down Russian air-crafts when Russians cross over airspace ? they just go intercept and come back they have no might to shot them down . a poor country like paksitan did more then she can do with soviets .we have soviet POWs those days do you think it was a joke ?

please take it with realistic approach nothing wrong to correct your facts .

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## JohnWick

mb444 said:


> You had some skirmishes yes.... imagine the state of PAF if you went against the full might of USSR.....


Indian air force of 2020 is far more capable than USSR air force in 1980s as it has 4++ generation jets while Soviet air force comprised mainly of 2nd and 3rd generation aircraft.
And on 27 feb India launched as many fighter jets as he could cz he assumed that Pakistan has fully attacked on it....And here we are.


----------



## Imran Khan

mb444 said:


> Do you have a single full capacity F16....no.... US never sold you one.... even the Israelis do not have F16s with the capabilities that US has.


 your own question have your answer . now tell me any country can meet USA ? no there is no country what is the point in your post ?i am failed to under stand am i talking to a 16 years old baby girl here 

USA is solo super power with 721billions dollars 
pakistan a 3rd world country with 11bn$ defense budget



Michael Corleone said:


> I am certainly not dissing Pakistan here. Just trying to be realistic here with your friend
> 
> 
> If we’re being realistic. Horten 229 was the first demonstration of a stealth aircraft


i just ut my POV on table boss



JohnWick said:


> Jft goes against F-16 daily here in Pakistan with a red flag like dog fight simulation and the data is gathered continuously from the engagement to improve jft.This data is incorporated in the development of block3.


jf-17 was made to keep in the mind f-16 . when these guys were working on jf-17 they have in mind f-16 . i am still not happy we need more powerful fighter jets like f-35 or j20 j31 damn  but then when i check my pocket i forget my wishes

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## Imran Khan

JohnWick said:


> Yep a baby girl like @DalalErMaNodi with a menstrual cycle happening in there.


i see ameture responses in his/her posts like kiddish behavior .lets back on topic no need to be personal . 

so BD is going to j-10 ?

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## JohnWick

Imran Khan said:


> i see ameture responses in his/her posts like kiddish behavior .lets back on topic no need to be personal .
> 
> so BD is going to j-10 ?


I think they wanna form a sqd with F-16 EFF Gripen J-10 and rafale.... @Michael Corleone


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## Imran Khan

JohnWick said:


> I think they wanna form a sqd with F-16 EFF Gripen J-10 and rafale.... @Michael Corleone


west tech will not come sooner . Russian Chinese is most likely . j-10C is best avilable if china sale them . or other is su-35 that will be perfect . i think BD pilots can take them to international waters and have exercises as bd has small air space .


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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> i see ameture responses in his/her posts like kiddish behavior .lets back on topic no need to be personal .





Says guy sharing memes ?



Other guy doesn't even warrant a reply from me.


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## mb444

Imran Khan said:


> you want us to go and mess with mighty super power ? are you serious ? its take great courage to shot down soviet aircraft in 1980s . a country loaded with hydrogen bomb and thousands of aircrafts yet PAF dare to shot them down . even today can you name how many nato aircraft shot down Russian air-crafts when Russians cross over airspace ? they just go intercept and come back they have no might to shot them down . a poor country like paksitan did more then she can do with soviets .we have soviet POWs those days do you think it was a joke ?
> 
> please take it with realistic approach nothing wrong to correct your facts .



I dont think it was a joke at all. 

The point of conversation was has there been a war between two equally powered states where their airforces competeted for supramacy. The answer remains no. The afgan wars was a proxy war and Pakistan was able to do what it did with support from US.


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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Says guy sharing memes ?
> 
> 
> 
> Other guy doesn't even warrant a reply from me.


ohh common man that was chil pil time . did i always do it ? memes are best thing happen to mankind

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> ohh common man that was chil pil time . did i always do it ? memes are best thing happen to mankind





So which childish posts of mine are you talking about ?



Other guy tags people, insults them and then deletes the post..... 

Very pathetic behaviour, part of a larger mindset.


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## Imran Khan

mb444 said:


> I dont think it was a joke at all.
> 
> The point of conversation was has there been a war between two equally powered states where their airforces competeted for supramacy. The answer remains no. The afgan wars was a proxy war and Pakistan was able to do what it did with support from US.


i agree paksitan can not fight a war with soviets . but in proxy war when they crossed our airspace f-16 was waiting for them . its enough for us that we protected our airspace from mighty soviet . and we really fire missiles on them . yes USA support us otherwise our mirages and j-6s were not enough to face soviets .



DalalErMaNodi said:


> So which childish posts of mine are you talking about ?
> 
> 
> 
> Other guy tags people, insults them and then deletes the post.....
> 
> Very pathetic behaviour, part of a larger mindset.


ohhh its your mistake i was not talking about you brother i was posting about mb444 posts man . where did i said you post childish ? i even never mention you man

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## mb444

Imran Khan said:


> your own question have your answer . now tell me any country can meet USA ? no there is no country what is the point in your post ?i am failed to under stand am i talking to a 16 years old baby girl here
> 
> USA is solo super power with 721billions dollars
> pakistan a 3rd world country with 11bn$ defense budget
> 
> 
> i just ut my POV on table boss
> 
> 
> jf-17 was made to keep in the mind f-16 . when these guys were working on jf-17 they have in mind f-16 . i am still not happy we need more powerful fighter jets like f-35 or j20 j31 damn  but then when i check my pocket i forget my wishes



You need to read the thread so you pick up what I am commenting on. It was claimed that JF17 is fully comparible to F16 as PAF operates both. My comment was PAF does not operate a full capability F16 therefore comparison between JF17 and a PAF f16 is not the correct comparison.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> i agree paksitan can not fight a war with soviets . but in proxy war when they crossed our airspace f-16 was waiting for them . its enough for us that we protected our airspace from mighty soviet . and we really fire missiles on them . yes USA support us otherwise our mirages and j-6s were not enough to face soviets .
> 
> 
> ohhh its your mistake i was not talking about you brother i was posting about mb444 posts man . where did i said you post childish ? i even never mention you man










He was talking about me..... 

But it's okay, you might have misunderstood.



@waz @BHarwana @krash please look into this @JohnWick who makes posts with insults then deletes them shortly after.


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## Imran Khan

mb444 said:


> You need to read the thread so you pick up what I am commenting on. It was claimed that JF17 is fully comparible to F16 as PAF operates both. My comment was PAF does not operate a full capability F16 therefore comparison between JF17 and a PAF f16 is not the correct comparison.


i agreed with you jf-17 is not fully comparable to f-16 at all . both block-1 and 2 are not comparable to f-16 block52+ . and yes i agree with you USA can turn f-16 with f-22 avionics too if USA want they can make f-16 stealth too . its out of question that someone can beat USA as of now . jf-17 block-3 we have hopes but we never see it yet so we can not comment .



DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 656009


The requested attachment could not be found.

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> So which childish posts of mine are you talking about ?
> 
> 
> 
> Other guy tags people, insults them and then deletes the post.....
> 
> Very pathetic behaviour, part of a larger mindset.


let me give you some knowledge then . even if you edit or delete real post is available for moderation . reporting that post will bring to mod original and edited both posts sir . feel free to report edited posts .


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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> let me give you some knowledge then . even if you edit or delete real post is available for moderation . reporting that post will bring to mod original and edited both posts sir . feel free to report edited posts .




Already done sir.

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## JohnWick

DalalErMaNodi said:


> So which childish posts of mine are you talking about ?
> 
> 
> 
> Other guy tags people, insults them and then deletes the post.....
> 
> Very pathetic behaviour, part of a larger mindset.


Pathetic behaviour in response to a pathetic behaviour just like your previous post being deleted after some time....
@BHarwana I never tagged people especially that guy who is always make filthy posts against Pakistan where ever he gots opportunity.


@waz @BHarwana @krash 
@DalalErMaNodi I never tag people and insulted them you can see my whole posts history....
I deleted the post it ends here.


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## Michael Corleone

JohnWick said:


> Pathetic behaviour in response to a pathetic behaviour just like your previous post being deleted after some time....
> @BHarwana I never tagged people especially that guy who is always make filthy posts against Pakistan where ever he gots opportunity.
> 
> 
> @waz @BHarwana @krash
> @DalalErMaNodi I never tag people and insulted them you can see my whole posts history....
> I deleted the post it ends here.


@waz i can attest to the fact that this John wick dude flamebaits people by insulting their country and then deletes his post shortly after to show innocence


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## bluesky

Imran Khan said:


> @Michael Corleone and @JohnWick do you guys read about Italian renaissance ? Leonardo da vinci / michelangelo/rafael all these greatest artists were copy paster of Greek arts . they were making copies of ancient greet art many years . and then days came when they start making art better then original Greek art and became legends of world .humanity survived on copy of knowledge all of our history is full of copy paste and then make things better then original . how many tech USA and west/USSR stole or took from Germany after ww2 ? i think humanity continue with copy of past and making things better for future . its because world is now more sensitive about intellectual property rights that is why its being noted .china will cross US and west TECH one day if they keep working this speed .


Yes, you are right. Copying is what causes the technologies to further develop from the originals. There are but a few inventions of new technologies recently, but there are thousands of improvement on the older technologies.

However, how far China can emulate this, is a question that only the future can answer. Without access to newer technology developed by other countries, it may be difficult for China to emulate new technologies. A copy paste procedure of very high technology requires samples.

America emulated or stole many German technologies, but most were due to the migration of German scientists after WWll. Similarly, many scientists moved out of a dismantled USSR and settled in Iran. Iran had oil money. Its weapons technology was developed by them, but the civilian technologies were not because the govt was not interested. Now, with the absence of new scientists from the USSR Iran is unable to emulate.

However, China has many researchers, but it needs sample products incorporated with latest improved technologies. So, this will limit China's efforts.

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## Arsalan

SOFT WARING:
Any further personal insults, trolling the thread will lead to warnings.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2565921460326886

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## leonblack08

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2565921460326886



We had the latest fighter jet of that era, and look at us now. BAF walking backward.

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## Nike

bluesky said:


> Yes, you are right. Copying is what causes the technologies to further develop from the originals. There are but a few inventions of new technologies recently, but there are thousands of improvement on the older technologies.
> 
> However, how far China can emulate this, is a question that only the future can answer. Without access to newer technology developed by other countries, it may be difficult for China to emulate new technologies. A copy paste procedure of very high technology requires samples.
> 
> America emulated or stole many German technologies, but most were due to the migration of German scientists after WWll. Similarly, many scientists moved out of a dismantled USSR and settled in Iran. Iran had oil money. Its weapons technology was developed by them, but the civilian technologies were not because the govt was not interested. Now, with the absence of new scientists from the USSR Iran is unable to emulate.
> 
> However, China has many researchers, but it needs sample products incorporated with latest improved technologies. So, this will limit China's efforts.



China unlike other US competitor till now has two distinct advantage, first they are large Nation with abundant natural resources of all commodities considered. China is the leader in mining gold, *zinc*, lead, *molybdenum*, *iron ore*, *coal*, tin, tungsten, rare earths, graphite, vanadium, *antimony* and phosphate, and holds second place in mine production of copper, silver, cobalt, bauxite/alumina and manganese. All important for modern industry. The other advantage is their huge population with good purchasing power capability, hence a very large internal market (with their nominal GDP is around 15 trillion US Dollar or comparable to three to four Times total GDP of whole Indian subcontinent), such market power is sufficient incentive for them to generate research development in civillian products and in turn generate their whole industrial capability at next level. And their internal educational level and research capability is very good , with many private company investing more toward research and development in colaboration with government owned research center and university. And one more, they are not shy to use many means to acquired new technology from their competitor, hacking, spying, buying and so on is very common method for them.

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## BlackViking

After seeing India's rafale today...I've become more depressed


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## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> After seeing India's rafale today...I've become more depressed




You should be depressed at the never ending assault by Covid-19 on our poor country. 



Defence acquisitions should be the last thing on anyone's mind right now.

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## Bilal9

BlackViking said:


> After seeing India's rafale today...I've become more depressed



You can't chop up Rafales like vegetables, cook them and serve them as food.

Nor can you make vaccines out of them. @DalalErMaNodi is right. We should prioritize survival and development first instead of wasting money on one-up-man-ship.

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## BlackViking

Did you guys see how corrupted our health ministry is ? Besides that no lockdown nothing to prevent corona... only God can save us now...I'm done thinking about Corona...need to divert my mind now


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Did you guys see how corrupted our health ministry is ? Besides that no lockdown nothing to prevent corona... only God can save us now...I'm done thinking about Corona...need to divert my mind now


Listen it’s either tumbling economy or a few hundred deaths. Your choice


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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Listen it’s either tumbling economy or a few hundred deaths. Your choice


Like i said...I'm done thinking about Corona and its effects on us and our economy...I have been thinking about this for the last four months and all I gained is tension and tension...I'm done with it..let's not derail this thread


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Like i said...I'm done thinking about Corona and its effects on us and our economy...I have been thinking about this for the last four months and all I gained is tension and tension...I'm done with it..let's not derail this thread


Good job, stop worrying. Enjoy life

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## BlackViking

Eid Mubarak bhai brothers


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## bluesky

The video above says Rafale has combat experiences, but China's J-20 has no. BD will make a big purchase of 4+G planes. I am uploading the video for people to wonder what would be the better/best choice for the BAF, any of these two or an American platform.


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> The video above says Rafale has combat experiences, but China's J-20 has no. BD will make a big purchase of 4+G planes. I am uploading the video for people to wonder what would be the better/best choice for the BAF, any of these two or an American platform.



The video is just a mix of facts and propaganda.

As for BAF, given some of the political things we have been seeing, I highly doubt an American platform will be purchased. (ex. Pakistan-Bangladesh thaw etc.)

Likely J-10.

Perhaps Typhoon in the future.

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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> The video above says Rafale has combat experiences, but China's J-20 has no. BD will make a big purchase of 4+G planes. I am uploading the video for people to wonder what would be the better/best choice for the BAF, any of these two or an American platform.


J20 is not for sale


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> The video is just a mix of facts and propaganda.
> 
> As for BAF, given some of the political things we have been seeing, I highly doubt an American platform will be purchased. (ex. Pakistan-Bangladesh thaw etc.)
> 
> Likely J-10.
> 
> Perhaps Typhoon in the future.


The more days go by the more I’m convinced of what @Arthur says 
No plane before 2025
But then getting j10 would be stupid since j31 is to come to service by that time.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> The more days go by the more I’m convinced of what @Arthur says
> No plane before 2025
> But then getting j10 would be stupid since j31 is to come to service by that time.



I agree with @Arthur's views.

J-10C is still very relevant even then.

It seems as if top tier air forces are going to have a mixture of 5th and 4+ gen types.

For example, the USAF is building F-15s again in the form of F-15EX.

BAF needs the J-10C or a similar model before it can hope to field a 5th gen platform.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> The more days go by the more I’m convinced of what @Arthur says
> No plane before 2025
> But then *getting j10 would be stupid since j31* is to come to service by that time.



Not in BAF's view.
BAF's policy is to always lag 1-1.5 generation behind any given air force with a spine and self-respect.
I believe J-10 induction will start in mid/late 2020s and continue into the 2030s.

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## BlackViking

How that typhoon hype started in the first place ?


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## DalalErMaNodi

9000 posts worth of gibberish on this thread.

A minute's silence for all the Bangladeshis who were duped by BAF into typing something out on this thread.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BD _Insha'Allah_ will get the Turkish Hur Jets....


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> How that typhoon hype started in the first place ?


The speculations started with the UK offering to "assist BD in their search for fighter aircraft" during a defence dialogue. It has been all Amra Khan since then who at one point even "confirmed" that Typhoons are coming.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-433#post-11518809

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## BlackViking

Al-Ansar said:


> The speculations started with the UK offering to "assist BD in their search for fighter aircraft" during a defence dialogue. It has been all Amra Khan since then who at one point even "confirmed" that Typhoons are coming.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-433#post-11518809


He is not posting anything about baf mrca procurement for a long time xD
May be he is depressed too xD

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> The speculations started with the UK offering to "assist BD in their search for fighter aircraft" during a defence dialogue. It has been all Amra Khan since then who at one point even "confirmed" that Typhoons are coming.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-433#post-11518809


Well SAK talked about EFT right after sukhoi talks went south, much before the British govt announced anything officially


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## mb444

Al-Ansar said:


> The speculations started with the UK offering to "assist BD in their search for fighter aircraft" during a defence dialogue. It has been all Amra Khan since then who at one point even "confirmed" that Typhoons are coming.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-air-force.168817/page-433#post-11518809




This is not BS news.... conversation has happened between BAF and UK government regarding EFT.


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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> This is not BS news.... conversation has happened between BAF and UK government regarding EFT.


Not denying convo but that is all the flying imbeciles of Bengal do.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Well SAK talked about EFT right after sukhoi talks went south, much before the British govt announced anything officially


You're probably right. Just waiting on the Dec 2018 elections to be over.

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## mb444

Al-Ansar said:


> Not denying convo but that is all the flying imbeciles of Bengal do.



I tried to find out what was being discussed but was not successful. 

To the best of my knowledge RAF do not have any excess EFT in stock and no excess capacity in terms of build capacity until the middle eastern clients have received delivery.

I wonder if some of the EU countries are seeking to sell block 1 EFT like the Austrians. Obviously UK can facilitate such conversations.

Anyhow who knows...i have zero expectation when it comes to BAF.

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## BlackViking

Initial plan was to acquire 2nd hand eft upgraded by Marshall adg and baf was serious about it..I dont know what happened next...in bangla words "Baki ta itihash" :p


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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> You're probably right. Just waiting on the Dec 2018 elections to be over.


Hearing from certain circles in BAF that EFT deal has already been signed but details are still under wraps. It was done before presidents announcement... as it would be tranche 3 aka brand new, we should expect deliveries from 2024/2025
Defres and DTB are going to write about this

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Hearing from certain circles in BAF that EFT deal has already been signed but details are still under wraps. It was done before presidents announcement... as it would be tranche 3 aka brand new, we should expect deliveries from 2024/2025
> Defres and DTB are going to write about this


I heard from something close to this...someone said baf got screwed in 2017 by Russians because a specific country was lobbying against us...then he added eft deal was signed around November/December of 2019 and baf doesn't want to make any announcement cause they dont want to get screwed again..idk how much of this is true

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## Arthur

BlackViking said:


> I heard from something close to this...someone said baf got screwed in 2017 by Russians because a specific country was lobbying against us...then he added eft deal was signed around November/December of 2019 and baf doesn't want to make any announcement cause they dont want to get screwed again..idk how much of this is true


They screwed themselves. No one told them to write up the tender to facilitate a particular contender. They did it by their own stupidity & got screwed.

And no Europeans aren't Ruskies. If they have the deal, other than the US no one can stop them. Even then they might end up not caring of US lobby. That point is enough to prove SAK is spewing BS.

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> 9000 posts worth of gibberish on this thread.
> 
> A minute's silence for all the Bangladeshis who were duped by BAF into typing something out on this thread.


They girl i can not sleep with i jist imagination her while masterbating hahahahaha


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> They girl i can not sleep with i jist imagination her while masterbating hahahahaha


----------



## PDF

TBH, I don't know but I feel more sad and disappointed with BAF than my PAF. I mean, how much anguish will Bangladeshi people feel over it if I feel so much? I guess human development and all the economy and improvement in life quality did cost Bangladesh its military capability somewhat. From Military point of view, its upsetting but I guess people always preferred and wanted it this way. Money being spend on people not arms.

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## Michael Corleone

PDF said:


> TBH, I don't know but I feel more sad and disappointed with BAF than my PAF. I mean, how much anguish will Bangladeshi people feel over it if I feel so much? I guess human development and all the economy and improvement in life quality did cost Bangladesh its military capability somewhat. From Military point of view, its upsetting but I guess people always preferred and wanted it this way. Money being spend on people not arms.


What’s there to feel disappointed about PAF, they’re the best airforce in the region

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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


>


This was example for this thread


----------



## Imran Khan

Homo Sapiens said:


> I lost all hope for BAF defending the sky of Bangladesh against the potential enemies we may have to face in the future. Given their foot dragging of well over a decade on just deciding which fighter jet to buy, it is obvious that anything they will bring(only God knows when!) will be too little, too late. The heart of the problem is, our entire leadership is not serious about making Bangladesh capable of defending against any conventional attack. They do not take defence in anyway seriously. This is a stark contrast in our neighborhood dominated by India, China, Pakistan and Myanmar. So, with this kind of complacency and apathy, it is obvious that Bangladesh will never be able to raise a conventional force strong enough against defending serious military players like India or Myanmar.
> 
> There is only one way Bangladeshi leadership may wake up from their complacency and slumber and do what should be done, if India or Myanmar forcefully capture a piece of Bangladesh. Until that happen, our leadership will continue to believe their delusion that, ''we have no enemy, so spending on defence is worthless''. So, Bangladesh will always remain a minnow in military front and rather will accept bullying of the neighbors as a fate rather than trying to stand-up on it's own feet. In our national psyche, we are a small, vulnerable country who should avoid all the troubles of outside world and solely focus on survival. Our dealing with India amply demonstrate this mentality. This serious national inferiority complex must have to overcome if we ever hope to be a respected member of the nations in the world.


For deciding they are follwing indian path of MMRCA.

I think pakistan is not your nighbor sir.ieaq is closer to pakistan then bd .oman uae saudi tajikistan kyergistan uzbikistan turkamnistan kuwait are more nighbors of pakistan then bd .we are out of picture is east of india


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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> What’s there to feel disappointed about PAF, they’re the best airforce in the region






PDF said:


> It means we have to further improve our weapons _accuracy_ and _precision. _Although, the error or practically on ground, it is insignificant but PAF always target for the best of its capabilities and refining ourselves is part of it. As the saying goes, there is always room for improvement.
> 
> As you have already highlighted, what is coming will almost nullify our recent past achievement. IAF has the capability, pilots, aircraft that can wreak havoc on us. Even without Rafales, They would pose a great threat from 250+ SU 30 MKIs to both MiG platfroms to the French Jaguars and Mirage 2Ks ( don't go for their old age, they are pretty effective aircafts with the upgrades). These all platforms have more potential than I dare say, what PAF has in its inventory. We all are lucky for IAF mismanagement, poor utilization and non-optimum net-centric capabilities. I fear for when they start using their _current _assets in the proper way. Even now, every success and victory we get/ already gotten is by the Almighty Allah's grace and blessings.





PDF said:


> The main objective of kill- switch debate is that US equipment is sanction prone and we need codes from them everyday to fly f-16 with all of its avionics to work fully operational. Other aircrafts which are foreign such as Mirages in our inventory does not have such constraints. We can even fight with french AF hypothetically with fully utilizing Mirages. Meanwhile, Let's say we have to fight USAF (let's ignore it is not gonna happen or that USAF will anihiliate PAF due to sheer qualitative and quantitative superiority), we will have to rely on other jets than F-16 in our inventory; F-16 will even then be able to fly but won't be able fire _some_ missiles or operate properly.
> The main point is, while using American equipment, we are at the mercy of US. If one day Uncle Sam says India is our strategic ally and they have to support them, we might have to fight in a skirmish with India with one hand tied.



The danger is that *being* too *complacent* might one day cause failure. The threat posed upon is too dangerous and can never be understated.

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## Imran Khan

PDF said:


> The danger is that *being* too *complacent* might one day cause failure. The threat posed upon is too dangerous and can never be understated.


The danger start when enemies objective did not fillful.mym pumped 1mn unwanted people to bd why mym go to war if objective is achieved without war ? Same apply india they are signing with bd what they want then why war ?


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## Species

PDF said:


> TBH, I don't know but I feel more sad and disappointed with BAF than my PAF. I mean, how much anguish will Bangladeshi people feel over it if I feel so much? I guess human development and all the economy and improvement in life quality did cost Bangladesh its military capability somewhat. From Military point of view, its upsetting but I guess people always preferred and wanted it this way. Money being spend on people not arms.



The issue is mainly the political will. 

People always want what they are made to want.


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## PDF

Imran Khan said:


> The danger start when enemies objective did not fillful.mym pumped 1mn unwanted people to bd why mym go to war if objective is achieved without war ? Same apply india they are signing with bd what they want then why war ?


War itself is irrational. So don't see it through the lens of logic and reasoning bro. And just like Pakistan has "fremeny" relationship with Afghanistan, and etc, Bangladesh also has its own share of problems. TBH, BD and IND won't go to war and even if they do, I personally believe BD will eventually lose (Duh). Bangladesh and Myanmar are more at level of each other and BD has fair chances of winning against them and vice-versa. Pakistan should also on papers and by all aspects lose to India but Israel and Pakistan are two exceptions known to world. Can't really put BD in the same catagory. Just my personal opinion.


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## Imran Khan

PDF said:


> War itself is irrational. So don't see it through the lens of logic and reasoning bro. And just like Pakistan has "fremeny" relationship with Afghanistan, and etc, Bangladesh also has its own share of problems. TBH, BD and IND won't go to war and even if they do, I personally believe BD will eventually lose (Duh). Bangladesh and Myanmar are more at level of each other and BD has fair chances of winning against them and vice-versa. Pakistan should also on papers and by all aspects lose to India but Israel and Pakistan are two exceptions known to world. Can't really put BD in the same catagory. Just my personal opinion.


Mym was threat but bd did not show up at the time of need .if bd start cap on border and threat them they may failed to push rohingas in bd


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## PDF

Species said:


> The issue is mainly the political will.
> 
> People always want what they are made to want.


It's same everywhere. Ask anyone here in Pakistan or PDF and all want our political leadership to have spine to start incursion for Kashmir. We troll our leaders ( both military and political) more than our enemies do. Even on 27th Feb 2019, we had several locks but AF leadership for whatever reasons didn't permitted firing at them. The point is, lack of will is not special to Bangladesh. It just depends how much one nation lacks.


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## PDF

Imran Khan said:


> Mym was threat but bd did not show up at the time of need .if bd start cap on border and threat them they may failed to push rohingas in bd


TBH, Bangladesh doesn't want to start war and those refugees didn't seem that important for BAF and BD to start a war. A war only brings destruction which BD can ill afford. I guess risk-assessment and threshold was measured and respectively, decisions were made.

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## Cryptic_distortion

The EFT delays are understandable, maybe its a good thing that BAF is taking their time before committing to such an expensive platform,. No other third world country operates them, and Austria is selling tranche 1 EFTs in favor of Gripens because of the expensive maintenance
J10 Cs on the other hand should be within budget and perfectly set up BAF for future FC-31s


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## Michael Corleone

PDF said:


> The danger is that *being* too *complacent* might one day cause failure. The threat posed upon is too dangerous and can never be understated.


I reckon PAF is more level headed than it’s land force counterpart. It sees its enemy as it’s equal which is why it has success every time. Whereas the same cannot be said about it’s army. Too many blunders that nearly cost them heavily every time

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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> I reckon PAF is more level headed than it’s land force counterpart. It sees its enemy as it’s equal which is why it has success every time. Whereas the same cannot be said about it’s army. Too many blunders that nearly cost them heavily every time


All tri forces have their fair share of blunders. Pakistan army is more in numbers relatively and thus have much more mistakes. But, it has learnt a lot of lessons. It's another debate that at what cost it learnt them. But, it's never too late. Right now, all services of military are going in the right direction. Pakistan army for its part has sacrificed alot to changeover to its current form and I think with the threat and enemies army in its recent past has faced, it is quite a satisfactory powerhorse to which it has emerged. PAF from the start was _second to none_. 
And remember, nothing is isolated. All events and factors are connected. Even in BAF case, the slow progress and all has many factors which some are public and many we don't even know. BAF is thorough professional and is as competent as PAF so I believe they have a plan which they are following. Let's just believe in them even if it seems a gloomy picture right now. And to be frank, having faith in them and believing in them is the only thing we can do (lol).

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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> Too many blunders that nearly cost them heavily every time


Not nearly...should be replaced with 'always' ...On a lighter note....










Let's be hopeful for good and positives rather then getting down. Every cloud has a silver lining.

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=181741493385362

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## Indos

If you guys want to upgrade your old fighter avionics, you can use Indonesian electronics company, Info Global. It has upgraded Indonesian and Malaysian planes like Hawk 100/200, Boeing 737-200, Hercules C-130, KT-1B, and Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA).

Here is one of the product proposed for Indonesian KFX fighter version (IFX) at Indodefense event in 2016






http://m.infoglobal.co.id/id/detailnews/30

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## JohnWick

BAF needs this

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## BlackViking

JohnWick said:


> BAF needs this
> View attachment 659214


Too costly for baf

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## Destranator

JohnWick said:


> BAF needs this
> View attachment 659214


Great fighter, unreliable supplier.

Typhoon, j-10, and Gripen are the only realistic options for BAF.

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## SBUS-CXK

JohnWick said:


> The stealth technology is from 1980s nearly 40 years old from F-117 Night Hawk.
> View attachment 655972
> View attachment 655973
> 
> It took Chinese 40 years to understand/copy this technology but yet still can not fully compare able with F-22 Raptor.
> A far as your cyber theory is concerned these stealth fighter were mainly built in Nevada air base the Area 51....with highly secured area of the whole world....China would not be able to stole this information....
> Chinese always copy and modify designs just like
> Su-27----J-11 J-16Su-34----J-15Mig-21----J-7 IAI lavi---J-10.
> Which aircraft BAF goona purchase????


I am more curious. Some backward countries like Pakistan. do they make any airplanes?

Even Israel can make the only "localized aircraft" lavi. Then there is no progress. can only comfort myself with some rumors.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Dise bash


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## SBUS-CXK

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Dise bash


no. bro. If I'm serious. I will post a thread...


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## DalalErMaNodi

SBUS-CXK said:


> no. bro. If I'm serious. I will post a thread...




Wasn't referring to you bro.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Great fighter, unreliable supplier.
> 
> Typhoon, j-10, and Gripen are the only realistic options for BAF.


Gripen is bound by US restrictions too. Engines and missiles


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## BlackViking

DTB looks quite hyped and confident about rafale.


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## gom poa

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Wasn't referring to you bro.


ite "Panda" re compliment doribu

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## Michael Corleone

SBUS-CXK said:


> no. bro. If I'm serious. I will post a thread...


You understand bangla?


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> DTB looks quite hyped and confident about rafale.


Prepare for them to backtrack xD


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Dise bash


Hahahahaha ei cheena bhai to bhaloi metaphors use kore


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## BlackViking

Saw few ex mig pilots talking about rafale...heard French authority visited our dhk and cgp base..but Italians visited our bases too...hope we get an official announcement soon


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Saw few ex mig pilots talking about rafale...heard French authority visited our dhk and cgp base..but Italians visited our bases too...hope we get an official announcement soon


Their defense minister came and also dassault aviation sales manager was sent along with French Air Force chief...but same happened with EFT with more enthusiasm from bd side

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Their defense minister came and also dassault aviation sales manager was sent along with French Air Force chief...but same happened with EFT with more enthusiasm from bd side


Bhai you are from defseca I believe...do you have any idea when we might get an official announcement?..and do you think the eft deal was done when PM visited Italy ?
And another thing is French authority already sent dassault aviation team and air force chief to offer rafale...then why would they send a high level delegation like defense minister for some few hours just to offer those same things again ?


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Bhai you are from defseca I believe...do you have any idea when we might get an official announcement?..and do you think the eft deal was done when PM visited Italy ?
> And another thing is French authority already sent dassault aviation team and air force chief to offer rafale...then why would they send a high level delegation like defense minister for some few hours just to offer those same things again ?


Official announcement? Bro at this point I would just wait until the estimated dates (2024) when we could see their delivery if we already purchased it. 
Second question, don’t know... unlikely... possibly done after the British commissioner offer (again speculation so take it with grain of salt)
As for rafale, they need orders to keep the production line open, and they certainly did sent two delegations but there has been little interest from bd side

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## Destranator

How on Earth are we going to afford Rafales? The government struggles to finance any project costing more than $500 million without foreign loans. Spending $150-$200 million/jet is out of question. The best we will get is used Eurofighters.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Official announcement? Bro at this point I would just wait until the estimated dates (2024) when we could see their delivery if we already purchased it.
> Second question, don’t know... unlikely... possibly done after the British commissioner offer (again speculation so take it with grain of salt)
> As for rafale, they need orders to keep the production line open, and they certainly did sent two delegations but there has been little interest from bd side


The govt can't just hide a deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars of tax money from the people. This is just not how the govt works.
If a deal was signed, we would know by now.
Don't buy into the BS of the usual suspects.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> The govt can't just hide a deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars of tax money from the people. This is just not how the govt works.
> If a deal was signed, we would know by now.
> Don't buy into the BS of the usual suspects.


tbh the usual suspects doesn't have any concrete news 
and our govt isn't really a considerate one that thinks about tax money of the people


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> tbh the usual suspects doesn't have any concrete news
> and our govt isn't really a considerate one that thinks about tax money of the people


When I say the "govt does not work that way", I do not mean the govt is filled with patriots who will never betray the nation. What I mean is it is a giant bureaucracy. Try visiting the office of any senior govt official, be it civil or military; you will notice how top-heavy the govt agencies are with hundreds of people involved in decision-making.
The officers are too lazy to even type up their own reports so every document in relation to procurement decisions change many hands.

The government just cannot stop leaks about a deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
Way too many people have stakes in such deals.

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## Cryptic_distortion

Al-Ansar said:


> How on Earth are we going to afford Rafales? The government struggles to finance any project costing more than $500 million without foreign loans. Spending $150-$200 million/jet is out of question. The best we will get is used Eurofighters.


Thought Eurofighter is even more or just as expensive as Rafale with maintenance 
These European jets might be too expensive for a country like bd.
What if we lose one of these to a wild pig running in the runway like PAF lost a F16 in the 80s.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/06/16/F-16-knocked-out-by-wild-boar/4437550814400/

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## The Ronin

PC- Adib Ahmed


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## Indos

Al-Ansar said:


> How on Earth are we going to afford Rafales? The government struggles to finance any project costing more than $500 million without foreign loans. Spending $150-$200 million/jet is out of question. The best we will get is used Eurofighters.



Yup, I think that used Eurofighter is good and affordable for Bangladesh. You dont need to upgrade it, it will be operational I believe until the next 20 years, and 15 years from now you can start acquiring new 5 generation fighter to replace that old fighter as your economy is predicted to already reach 1 trillion USD at that time.

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2337896986518652

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## Michael Corleone

Alright under 2019-2020 fiscal 16 MRCA, 8 attack helicopter, 3 VVIP helicopters, 2 radar units, 24 primary trainer, one k8w simulator, 4 MRP vehicle, one adblue? 119 sim, one mobile act tower and 2 counter drone radar are under procurement...

source- law minister 
https://www.kalerkantho.com/online/national/2020/01/30/868890


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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Alright under 2019-2020 fiscal 16 MRCA, 8 attack helicopter, 3 VVIP helicopters, 2 radar units, 24 primary trainer, one k8w simulator, 4 MRP vehicle, one adblue? 119 sim, one mobile act tower and 2 counter drone radar are under procurement...
> 
> source- law minister
> https://www.kalerkantho.com/online/national/2020/01/30/868890


May be a squadron of J10


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> May be a squadron of J10


They were to be issued under a seperate deal, replacement of MBs in a few years


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## BlackViking

he is from defseca I believe..and he is also a former air force pilot most probably


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## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 660327
> he is from defseca I believe..and he is also a former air force pilot most probably


Link to comment?


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 660327
> he is from defseca I believe..and he is also a former air force pilot most probably


AFAIK he isn’t an airforce pilot. But he’s a team member of defseca


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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Link to comment?


This comment ss is from February...sorry i don't have the link


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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> AFAIK he isn’t an airforce pilot. But he’s a team member of defseca







according to him he is an ex pilot...I asked him about mrca and Apache deal many times in comment sections..but he never replied me back.


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## Imran Khan

Michael Corleone said:


> AFAIK he isn’t an airforce pilot. But he’s a team member of defseca


he sale what people buy . even if i make an account and go to BD pages and claim apachis and f-16s are coming people will start believing it . because people want to hear it .

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## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 660340
> according to him he is an ex pilot...I asked him about mrca and Apache deal many times in comment sections..but he never replied me back.




Ex - Pilot and incumbent chutiya of Bangladesh defence pages.

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Ex - Pilot and incumbent chutiya of Bangladesh defence pages.


we have so many such people on PDF too many claiming day night BS which not happened . in 100 claims if 5 come true they start chest thumping here .long list of weapons they have purchased in their dreams 
c-130sj 
f-16 block-70
j-31 
even some helicopter carriers for pakistan navy too

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 660327
> he is from defseca I believe..and he is also a former air force pilot most probably


How can you sign Apache deal without Congressional approval? BS.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> we have so many such people on PDF too many claiming day night BS which not happened . in 100 claims if 5 come true they start chest thumping here .long list of weapons they have purchased in their dreams
> c-130sj
> f-16 block-70
> j-31
> even some helicopter carriers for pakistan navy too




Kid sir, young delusional teenagers.

They think war is fun.


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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Kid sir, young delusional teenagers.
> 
> They think war is fun.


those were indians until they see thier monkey pilot is shot down and being beaten in pakistan . their josh was cold after PAF fire few missiles on indian jets and ground targets

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## Destranator

Dude is speaking from both sides of his mouth. In the first comment he claims a Typhoon deal has already been signed while in the second he proclaims that BAF WILL buy Typhoons.
Which one is it?

No deal has been signed yet for Typhoon or Apache.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Al-Ansar said:


> View attachment 660345
> 
> 
> View attachment 660344
> 
> 
> 
> Dude is speaking from both sides of his mouth. In the first comment he claims the Typhoon deal has already been signed while in the second he says BAF WILL buy Typhoons? Which one is it?
> 
> No deal have been signed yet.



Notice how he reversed his name, these Bengali clowns and their Facebook antics.

I've seen a few like Obhuj mon'er shobhuj chele, chocolate boy, cutie killer, Dharkan stealer and so on....

Facebook should be banned in Bangladesh, these halfwits are using the platform for their unholy bouts of stalking women, cringey romantic posts (nevermind they're virgins), shameless exhibitionism among other things and catfishing.


All in all, no good comes out of FB in Bangladesh, I implore the GoB to ban Facebook, TikTok and Bollywood movies in Bangladesh.


Dividend ? Sexual abuse reports will drop.




Bangladesh; A great country, abused by the very animals who call it home.

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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Notice how he reversed his name, these Bengali clowns and their Facebook antics.
> 
> I've seen a few like Obhuj mon'er shobhuj chele, chocolate boy, cutie killer, Dharkan stealer and so on....
> 
> Facebook should be banned in Bangladesh, these halfwits are using the platform for their unholy bouts of stalking women, cringey romantic posts (nevermind they're virgins), shameless exhibitionism among other things and catfishing.
> 
> 
> All in all, no good comes out of FB in Bangladesh, I implore the GoB to ban Facebook, TikTok and Bollywood movies in Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> Dividend ? Sexual abuse reports will drop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh; A great country, abused by the very animals who call it home.


I even have ss of DefRes saying baf will receive all of their "typhoons" before India receives all their rafales... xD xD xD
They claim they are a big shot so I thought I will humiliate them publically in the comment section but what's the point..I'm tired of genjams


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## Michael Corleone

Imran Khan said:


> he sale what people buy . even if i make an account and go to BD pages and claim apachis and f-16s are coming people will start believing it . because people want to hear it .


Not really


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 660340
> according to him he is an ex pilot...I asked him about mrca and Apache deal many times in comment sections..but he never replied me back.


621 hours jet flying hours, I’m going to assume that’s combined hours, even then that’s like 3 years worth of flying assuming a pilot gets 200 hours flight time, Bangladesh pilots definitely do not get 200 hr of flight time judging by the mig flight hours till now


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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> View attachment 660345
> 
> 
> View attachment 660344
> 
> 
> 
> Dude is speaking from both sides of his mouth. In the first comment he claims a Typhoon deal has already been signed while in the second he proclaims that BAF WILL buy Typhoons.
> Which one is it?
> 
> No deal has been signed yet for Typhoon or Apache.


I reckon that’s the case, still under talks... but most probably the allocation of 2019/2020 is a rollover one so that’s why the law minister said of that fiscal year

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> nevermind they're virgins


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Dividend ? Sexual abuse reports will drop


Sexual abuse will increase and go underground, repressed people always goes wild


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> I even have ss of DefRes saying baf will receive all of their "typhoons" before India receives all their rafales... xD xD xD
> They claim they are a big shot so I thought I will humiliate them publically in the comment section but what's the point..I'm tired of genjams


Defres is a troll page

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## ghost250

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1531203467056558

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## ziaulislam

Imran Khan said:


> we have so many such people on PDF too many claiming day night BS which not happened . in 100 claims if 5 come true they start chest thumping here .long list of weapons they have purchased in their dreams
> c-130sj
> f-16 block-70
> j-31
> even some helicopter carriers for pakistan navy too


Basically if u name every aircarft and every weapon you are bond to have couple of right hits

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## BlackViking

ghost250 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1531203467056558


Heard it came from Munich

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## BlackViking

ghost250 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1531203467056558


Does anybody have any idea why it was here ?


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## Buddhistforlife

Some member in this thread claimed that Myanmar cannot make tables and chairs so how can they make missiles. Well here are some air defence system and mlrs produced by Myanmar. At least they are making it but Bangladesh still is not being able to produce its own military equipment.

@Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin @bluesky

@Homo Sapiens


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## DalalErMaNodi

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 661352
> 
> 
> View attachment 661353
> 
> 
> Some member in this thread claimed that Myanmar cannot make tables and chairs so how can they make missiles. Well here are some air defence system and mlrs produced by Myanmar. At least they are making it but Bangladesh still is not being able to produce its own military equipment.
> 
> @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin @bluesky
> 
> @Homo Sapiens




Bangladesh is focused on Human Development and not on being a pariah military state.



We make circuit boards, computers and phones in Bangladesh, Tag me when Myanmar can make a simple printed circuit board.














Btw they make all those with kits from China, No biggie.

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## X-ray Papa

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Bangladesh is focused on Human Development and not on being a pariah military state.
> 
> 
> 
> We make circuit boards, computers and phones in Bangladesh, Tag me when Myanmar can make a simple printed circuit board.
> 
> View attachment 661364
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw they make all those with kits from China, No biggie.


People is the Country and Country is the people.
Joy Bangla.

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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 661352
> 
> 
> View attachment 661353
> 
> 
> Some member in this thread claimed that Myanmar cannot make tables and chairs so how can they make missiles. Well here are some air defence system and mlrs produced by Myanmar. At least they are making it but Bangladesh still is not being able to produce its own military equipment.
> 
> @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @Ronin @bluesky
> 
> @Homo Sapiens


Their whole economy is geared towards this, probably makes nothing much other than those... no consumer electronics, phones nada

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## Buddhistforlife

Michael Corleone said:


> Their whole economy is geared towards this, probably makes nothing much other than those... no consumer electronics, phones nada


You mean to say Myanmar as a country is like North Korea.


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## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> You mean to say Myanmar as a country is like North Korea.


Yes


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## Bilal9

I don't understand how some folks can live in Bangladesh and keep glorifying Myanmar. The very reason they are in Bangladesh is because Myanmar Tatmadaw kicked their ancestor's butt and they had to take refuge over here.

Some people never learn.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Bilal9 said:


> I don't understand how some folks can live in Bangladesh and keep glorifying Myanmar. The very reason they are in Bangladesh is because Myanmar Tatmadaw kicked their ancestor's butt and they had to take refuge over here.
> 
> Some people never learn.




What will you say about that Jamati plebeian idune, the man lives to commit sedition. 

Proper nuisance.

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## Buddhistforlife

Bilal9 said:


> I don't understand how some folks can live in Bangladesh and keep glorifying Myanmar. The very reason they are in Bangladesh is because Myanmar Tatmadaw kicked their ancestor's butt and they had to take refuge over here.
> 
> Some people never learn.


Wrong. The ones who got kicked out are Rakhine Buddhists a.k.a the Arakanese. 

They still hold grudge against the Burmese. Marma, Chakma etc Buddhists are living in Bangladesh since Mauryan Empire.


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## Shorisrip

Buddhistforlife said:


> Wrong. The ones who got kicked out are Rakhine Buddhists a.k.a the Arakanese.
> 
> They still hold grudge against the Burmese. Marma, Chakma etc Buddhists are living in Bangladesh since Mauryan Empire.



Lol what? Chakmas are recorded to have migrated in the 14th century at the earliest. The earliest inhabitants in the hills are the Mru. The Marma came in the 15th-16th century, are basically the same as the Arakanese. They call themselves Mranma in rakhine dialect which is 'myanma' in standard Burmese.

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## Buddhistforlife

Shorisrip said:


> Lol what? Chakmas are recorded to have migrated in the 14th century at the earliest. The earliest inhabitants in the hills are the Mru. The Marma came in the 15th-16th century, are basically the same as the Arakanese. They call themselves Mranma in rakhine dialect which is 'myanma' in standard Burmese.


Unrelated topic. The main theme of the discussion is that Rakhines are the ones who got kicked out from Burma after King Bodawpaya of Konbaung dynasty conquered Arakan.


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## Shorisrip

Buddhistforlife said:


> Unrelated topic. The main theme of the discussion is that Rakhines are the ones who got kicked out from Burma after King Bodawpaya of Konbaung dynasty conquered Arakan.



How is it unrelated? You're stating false historical facts and that's why I'm correcting you. Chakma and Marma history in the region only goes back 400-600 years, while the Mauryan Empire ended in 184 BC, i.e. more than 2000 years ago.


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## Buddhistforlife

Shorisrip said:


> How is it unrelated? You're stating false historical facts and that's why I'm correcting you. Chakma and Marma history in the region only goes back 400-600 years, while the Mauryan Empire ended in 184 BC, i.e. more than 2000 years ago.


You must be a supporter of BNP/Jamaat nexus. Only BNP/Jamaat nationalists try to potray every non bengali/non muslim as outsiders.


----------



## Shorisrip

Buddhistforlife said:


> You must be a supporter of BNP/Jamaat nexus. Only BNP/Jamaat nationalists try to potray every non bengali/non muslim as outsiders.



I am completely against Jamat/BNP. My grandpa was a district VP of AL back in the day. I'm against AL as well or any current political party in Bangladesh for that matter. I am only for truth and I'm not portraying anything. If you can back up your claims with sources, I will oblige. I have my own sources as well.


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## Buddhistforlife

Shorisrip said:


> I am completely against Jamat/BNP. My grandpa was a district VP of AL back in the day. I'm against AL as well or any current political party in Bangladesh for that matter. I am only for truth and I'm not portraying anything. If you can back up your claims with sources, I will oblige. I have my own sources as well.


I don't know when the Chakma/Marma came to Bangladesh tbh as far as I know during the Mauryan era there were many Buddhists in BD. 

Also don't support BNP/Jamaat. I'm glad you are a BAL supporter. BAL is the future of Bangladesh.


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## Shorisrip

Buddhistforlife said:


> I don't know when the Chakma/Marma came to Bangladesh tbh as far as I know during the Mauryan era there were many Buddhists in BD.
> 
> Also don't support BNP/Jamaat. I'm glad you are a BAL supporter. BAL is the future of Bangladesh.



There were indeed always Buddhists in Bangladesh. These were however Bengali Buddhists, and the Barua community in Chittagong is the last remaining trace of that community. Bengali Buddhists were also traditionally followers of Mahayana Buddhism, and were recently converted to the Hinayana by influence from Angarika Dharmapala during the 19th century. The Chakma/Marma at this point are local to their region having inhabited the hills for 400-600 years now, but let's not falsify history and claim things that are completely false. And no, I am not a supporter of AL. Let's not derail this thread and stick to topics related to the Bangladesh Air Force.

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## Bilal9

Guys Many thanks for the tidbits but let's keep the discussion on topic please.

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## Michael Corleone

Accept you’re in the wrong here @Buddhistforlife and you’ve a tendency to derail every thread. Please avoid it in the future or I would have to report you

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=185880496304795


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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=185880496304795


"The Bangladesh Air Force wants a minimum of 6 new fighter squadrons and *ultimately they will operate 12 to 13 fighter squadrons*...."

By the time BAF gets to 12/13 fighter squadrons, fighter jets will be rendered obsolete by supersonic, AI drones.


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## Jobless Jack

Al-Ansar said:


> "The Bangladesh Air Force wants a minimum of 6 new fighter squadrons and *ultimately they will operate 12 to 13 fighter squadrons*...."
> 
> By the time BAF gets to 12/13 fighter squadrons, fighter jets will be rendered obsolete by supersonic, AI drones.


Honestly I would rather See BAF develop supersonic cruise missile , SAM and offensive drone capability than develop MRCA . MRCA is becoming an expensive liability

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## Buddhistforlife

Jobless Jack said:


> Honestly I would rather See BAF develop supersonic cruise missile , SAM and offensive drone capability than develop MRCA . MRCA is becoming an expensive liability


Bangladesh can either build a conventional deterrence force or if it doesn't work then a strategic missile base as a substitute. 

Countries like South Korea, Japan etc have a good conventional force without strategic missiles while Iran has a poor conventional force but a good strategic missile base.


----------



## Jobless Jack

Buddhistforlife said:


> Bangladesh can either build a conventional deterrence force or if it doesn't work then a strategic missile base as a substitute.
> 
> Countries like South Korea, Japan etc have a good conventional force without strategic missiles while Iran has a poor conventional force but a good strategic missile base.


exactly a missle force is much cheaper and effective than an MRCA force , that can be knocked out in a week in the event of a war. unless the plan is to engage the enemy conventionally for 3 weeks + , is best to develop a missile force.

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## The Ronin

CBG report 17-Aug-2020
BAF 99-5480 was outside H17 this morning. In the afternoon, it joined QEAF 211 and KAF 326 inside MX.

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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> exactly a missle force is much cheaper and effective than an MRCA force , that can be knocked out in a week in the event of a war. unless the plan is to engage the enemy conventionally for 3 weeks + , is best to develop a missile force.


Missile development and maintenance cost more in the long run. It’s imperative for a good air defence but one cannot solely rely on missiles for air defenses. Such systems can be overwhelmed

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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=185880496304795


I dont buy this covid 19 bullshit...baf personals went to recieve c130...look at India and Myanmar..they are signing new deals and getting deliveries in spite of covid 19
Idk what's holding back baf from mrca deal..may be money issue may be not but it most certainly is not covid 19 (my personal opinion)

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> I dont buy this covid 19 bullshit...baf personals went to recieve c130...look at India and Myanmar..they are signing new deals and getting deliveries in spite of covid 19
> Idk what's holding back baf from mrca deal..may be money issue may be not but it most certainly is not covid 19 (my personal opinion)


I agree, it is BS. Other procurement activities are going ahead in full steam. Money is not an issue either. It is just BAF being BAF.

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## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> I dont buy this covid 19 bullshit...baf personals went to recieve c130...look at India and Myanmar..they are signing new deals and getting deliveries in spite of covid 19
> Idk what's holding back baf from mrca deal..may be money issue may be not but it most certainly is not covid 19 (my personal opinion)





Al-Ansar said:


> I agree, it is BS. Other procurement activities are going ahead in full steam. Money is not an issue either. It is just BAF being BAF.




I reckon, it's due to foreign interference, they're trying to keep it hush hush until the last moment.


BAF be like :


----------



## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> I reckon, it's due to foreign interference, they're trying to keep it hush hush until the last moment.
> 
> 
> BAF be like :


 
U mean baf is done with everything they are just keeping it under radar ?


----------



## BlackViking

JohnWick said:


> When Bangladeshis people will able to reckon the difference between these two videos. There self-respect will be restored.
> One muslim Country responce towards Kafirs
> The enemies of Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And an other Muslim Country Attitude.


Dude this is not the thread...please don't try to derail it


----------



## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> I reckon, it's due to foreign interference, they're trying to keep it hush hush until the last moment.
> 
> 
> BAF be like :



Why on Earth would the supplier keep it under the wraps at a time when fighter sales are slow worldwide (regardless of Covid impact)? 

Also, it is almost impossible for bureaucracies to prevent leaks on major deals.


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Dude this is not the thread...please don't try to derail it


Just hit report and move on. Don't bother responding.

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## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> Dude this is not the thread...please don't try to derail it



Just listen to the song and ignore him.


Unquote him, not worth it.

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## BlackViking

Al-Ansar said:


> Why on Earth would the supplier keep it under the wraps at a time when fighter sales are slow worldwide (regardless of Covid impact)?
> 
> Also, it is almost impossible for bureaucracies to prevent leaks on major deals.


Anything like this ever happened before ?..like our armed forces bought anything and kept it dark till the last moment?


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## Buddhistforlife

K-8 Trainers of BAF. Anyways how many have we got?


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## BlackViking

Buddhistforlife said:


> View attachment 661822
> 
> 
> 
> K-8 Trainers of BAF. Anyways how many have we got?


Idk the current number but baf has plan to keep 2 squadron (16x2) k8


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Anything like this ever happened before ?..like our armed forces bought anything and kept it dark till the last moment?


Not in regards to any major equipment AFAIK.
It is impossible in the era of smartphones.


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## BlackViking

Al-Ansar said:


> Not in regards to any major equipment AFAIK.
> It is impossible in the era of smartphones.


I heard our submarine deal was like this..like super secret..even all the navy officials didn't know until a certain time...I "heard"...dont whether it's true or just rumor


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Guess who just got banned from this thread.

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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Guess who just got banned from this thread.


So you have received the notification too. 

Good on you for reporting.
Kudos to the mod team. They often go out on a limb to act fair.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Guess who just got banned from this thread.


Lol yeah. Didn’t care to respond just reported him

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> I heard our submarine deal was like this..like super secret..even all the navy officials didn't know until a certain time...I "heard"...dont whether it's true or just rumor


Pretty sure there was discussion on the Mings prior to the deal being signed at least on Bdmilitary forum (credit to SAK/Ashiq).

There were not as many BD defence pages back in those days.

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## Michael Corleone

Al-Ansar said:


> Pretty sure there was discussion on the Mings prior to the deal being signed at least on Bdmilitary forum (credit to SAK/Ashiq).
> 
> There were not as many BD defence pages back in those days.


I remember defres and dtb existing at the time, but they didn’t talk about subs until it was announced in the media

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## The Ronin

BAF 99-5480 is up for her first test flight at 11:25 LT as MCE01

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## BlackViking

Al-Ansar said:


> Pretty sure there was discussion on the Mings prior to the deal being signed at least on Bdmilitary forum (credit to SAK/Ashiq).
> 
> There were not as many BD defence pages back in those days.


True...I remember a fb group named "Bangladesh defense" back in 2012/13.(eli bhai still runs that group)...I was active back then and then I lost interest..didn't even know about defres/dtb...after the announcement of Apache from Jane's defense here I am desperately waiting for some good news :p


----------



## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> True...I remember a fb group named "Bangladesh defense" back in 2012/13.(eli bhai still runs that group)...I was active back then and then I lost interest..didn't even know about defres/dtb...after the announcement of Apache from Jane's defense here I am desperately waiting for some good news :p


Defres was made by a med student called tanvir after I banned him for some reason I don’t remember (disrespect/rude) then he went on to make defres along with another banned ultranationalist and started dissing bdmilitary. Their posts are usually third rate. Although I’ve to say, recently all bd defense related post are third rate

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Defres was made by a med student called tanvir after I banned him for some reason I don’t remember (disrespect/rude) then he went on to make defres along with another banned ultranationalist and started dissing bdmilitary. Their posts are usually third rate. Although I’ve to say, recently all bd defense related post are third rate


Tiz ?..lol even girls ar less emotional than him..dtb and defseca looks a bit decent tbh


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Tiz ?..lol even girls ar less emotional than him..dtb and defseca looks a bit decent tbh


Got banned for that too. XD

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## Buddhistforlife

Al-Ansar said:


> Not in regards to any major equipment AFAIK.
> It is impossible in the era of smartphones.


In a democracy you cannot hide anything just like India, USA etc displays their equipment. Bangladeshi is a fully functional democracy and arms procurement generally cannot be hidden. Autocratic nations like DPRK, Iran can have a secretive military, not Bangladesh.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Buddhistforlife said:


> In a democracy you cannot hide anything just like India, USA etc displays their equipment. Bangladeshi is a fully functional democracy and arms procurement generally cannot be hidden. Autocratic nations like DPRK, Iran can have a secretive military, not Bangladesh.


Bangladesh doesn’t talk about its procurement plans or procurements until they’re already delivered.

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## The Ronin

The third Bangladesh Air Force Lockheed C-130J, 99-5480 (S3-AGG), takes the first test flight since the refurbishment from ex Royal Air Force C.5 ZH882 on August 18, 2020, departing at 10:20 UTC and returning to Cambridge at 12:45 UTC.













DalalErMaNodi said:


> Guess who just got banned from this thread.



Guess i was the one to put the final nail in the coffin. 



BlackViking said:


> I remember a fb group named "Bangladesh defense" back in 2012/13.(eli bhai still runs that group)



They even had a page. Only decent Bangladeshi defense group with no mud slinging.



BlackViking said:


> after the announcement of Apache from Jane's defense



News came from Dhaka Tribune first.



Michael Corleone said:


> Defres was made by a med student called tanvir after I banned him for some reason I don’t remember



And surprisingly he is back in Defseca.



Buddhistforlife said:


> *Bangladeshi is a fully functional democracy* and arms procurement generally cannot be hidden.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> And surprisingly he is back in Defseca


Ah shit lemme check


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## BlackViking

this old pic is again circulating in groups and people are dreaming of F16s and suddenly J10 has become a "bad" aircraft xD xD


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## Buddhistforlife

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 662025
> this old pic is again circulating in groups and people are dreaming of F16s and suddenly J10 has become a "bad" aircraft xD xD


MRCA will not be coming this year and not even the next year I can assure you. 

But no one is still seeing progress regarding any MRCA deal.

Last time the president mentioned 16 mrca thays it.


----------



## BlackViking

Buddhistforlife said:


> MRCA will not be coming this year and not even the next year I can assure you


Ik that bud..we might hear some good news in November/December...let's see what happens


----------



## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Ik that bud..we might hear some good news in November/December...let's see what happens


You won’t hear good news until you can see it with your eyes in bd colors

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> You won’t hear good news until you can see it with your eyes in bd colors




MRCA in green and red ? 


Eww 

Khet.


----------



## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> MRCA in green and red ?
> 
> 
> Eww
> 
> Khet.


Palong shag with ketchup


https://imgur.com/9TIl2cG


----------



## Pakistan Space Agency

Has Bangladesh ordered any new jets?

Which class is Bangladesh looking to acquire? Light-weight, medium-weight or a mixture of both?


----------



## Destranator

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Has Bangladesh ordered any new jets?
> 
> Which class is Bangladesh looking to acquire? Light-weight, medium-weight or a mixture of both?


We all have the same questions.

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> You won’t hear good news until you can see it with your eyes in bd colors






bhai can you tell what did he mean by timely..I mean what's the time frame for mrca


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 662295
> bhai can you tell what did he mean by timely..I mean what's the time frame for mrca





As I think @Arthur has said earlier, don't expect anything to land in Bangladesh before 2024, I'm talking about MRCA not single engine f-7 replacements.

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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> As I think @Arthur has said earlier, don't expect anything to land in Bangladesh before 2024, I'm talking about MRCA not single engine f-7 replacements.


Yeah..that's the saddest part


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> Yeah..that's the saddest part



What's so depressing about it ?


----------



## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 662295
> bhai can you tell what did he mean by timely..I mean what's the time frame for mrca


Means he has no clue.

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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> What's so depressing about it ?


I'm sort of a plane freak :p...I bought eft scale model back in 2018 (and got screwed by airport customs) when I heard baf is considering eft :p


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 662295
> bhai can you tell what did he mean by timely..I mean what's the time frame for mrca


If the MRCA is indeed EFT, it won’t be really for delivery until mid 2024... kuwait and Qatar’s orders will be fulfilled first.

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## The Ronin



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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> If the MRCA is indeed EFT, it won’t be really for delivery until mid 2024... kuwait and Qatar’s orders will be fulfilled first.


Worth the wait as long as we get meteor. 32 ideal but 16 would do as long as we also put in for j10. If we could just have 3-4 sqd of good fighters we can put up a good defense backed by a sam force....

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Worth the wait as long as we get meteor. 32 ideal but 16 would do as long as we also put in for j10. If we could just have 3-4 sqd of good fighters we can put up a good defense backed by a sam force....


Indeed. Meteor would be part of the package if those jets are bought, I reckon Americans won’t sell AIM 120 C/D to bd


----------



## The Ronin

Another C-130J Super Hercules spotted with new reg, 99-5485. 

PC- Alexey Trailspotter

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## BlackViking

Baf is getting new 7 k8w's probably in this week

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Baf is getting new 7 k8w's probably in this week


How will the rest of Asia deal with this shift in paradigm?

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## BlackViking

Al-Ansar said:


> How will the rest of Asia deal with this shift in paradigm?


Sorry bhai didn't understand your point..can you please elaborate

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## mb444

BlackViking said:


> Sorry bhai didn't understand your point..can you please elaborate


 AL-Ansar was being sarcastic.... K8 another utterly pointless purchase by BAF idiots....

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## BlackViking

mb444 said:


> AL-Ansar was being sarcastic.... K8 another utterly pointless purchase by BAF idiots....


Aha...got it :3...but baf will keep 2 squadron of k8 in service so we are gonna hear about k8 a lot in the future 😂😂


----------



## Lord Of Gondor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300846161964589056


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## Destranator

India: Let us push for Tejas sales in BD to make BD India dependent.

BAF: Oh yeah? Let us keep BD independent by not buying any fighter ever. Take that!

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## X-ray Papa

Al-Ansar said:


> India: Let us push for Tejas sales in BD to make BD India dependent.
> 
> BAF: Oh yeah? Let us keep BD independent by not buying any fighter ever. Take that!


I would take J-7 over shitty Tejas anytime.

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## Pandora

Lord Of Gondor said:


> View attachment 665906
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300846161964589056



Indians really want to push this flying samosa and a supply chain nightmare onto BAF. I mean why would someone choose a Tejas when they can get a J10 or Mig 35 in the same price range? From which angle does this joke of an aircraft looks like it cost around 50-60 Million a plane?

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## Lord Of Gondor

Pandora said:


> Indians really want to push this flying samosa and a supply chain nightmare onto BAF. I mean why would someone choose a Tejas when they can get a J10 or Mig 35 in the same price range? From which angle does this joke of an aircraft looks like it cost around 50-60 Million a plane?


Only morons can look at a jet and estimate the price. 
The other two jets you mention are in a different weight class. If Pak cannot afford a J10, it will be a stretch to imagine a different outcome for BAF.


----------



## Pandora

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Only morons can look at a jet and estimate the price.
> The other two jets you mention are in a different weight class. If Pak cannot afford a J10, it will be a stretch to imagine a different outcome for BAF.



I quoted price as per news reports which puts it at 57 million per plane. Now get lost MORON. As for J10 Pakistan rejected it because it didn't provide enough capability boost to justify a purchase. Pakistan instead opted for F16 Block 52+ in its place to at least avoid adding a newer type. As for affordability Pakistan is purchasing 8 AIP subs, Type 54A frigates, Jinnah class frigates, 300 VT4 Tanks, 300 SH15 SPH and several other procurement at the same time so you argument about Pakistan unable to affford it is plain stupid.
https://eurasiantimes.com/tejas-mark-1a-can-outperform-entire-pakistani-fleet-most-of-chinese-defense-experts/#:~:text=The deal for the 83,now at Rs 39,000 crore.&text=As a result, per aircraft,of about Rs 680 crores.

If Bangladesh wanted TEJAS the flying samosa they would have done it by now. It is very much possible that Bangladesh might get its hands on F16s or at least EDA F16 which is still better than 10 tejas bought in its place.

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## Michael Corleone

Pandora said:


> Indians really want to push this flying samosa and a supply chain nightmare onto BAF. I mean why would someone choose a Tejas when they can get a J10 or Mig 35 in the same price range? From which angle does this joke of an aircraft looks like it cost around 50-60 Million a plane?


Rest assured we would waste more of our money buying trainers for amateur pilots to have a joy ride in and crash than buy Tejas


----------



## Pandora

Michael Corleone said:


> Rest assured we would waste more of our money buying trainers for amateur pilots to have a joy ride in and crash than buy Tejas



Bigger question is would you buy this jet for 57 millions a pop which is official price tag for recently signed contract with HAL. Funny thing is that it is even more expensive than SU 30 MKI which if supplied by Russian cost 43 million a pop whereas Indians build it for 70 million a plane under licence.


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## Lord Of Gondor

A full digital FBW unstable supersonic fighter is out of the knowledge realm for someone whose best slur is "Flying Samosa".
Quote me after you can design even a basic trainer.


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## Michael Corleone

Pandora said:


> Bigger question is would you buy this jet for 57 millions a pop which is official price tag for recently signed contract with HAL. Funny thing is that it is even more expensive than SU 30 MKI which if supplied by Russian cost 43 million a pop whereas Indians build it for 70 million a plane under licence.


40 million is an incentivized price for Russian airforce, 70 million sounds about right. Tejas manufacturer’s should first deliver to Indian airforce before thinking of selling to international customers

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## Bilal9

Lord Of Gondor said:


> A full digital FBW unstable supersonic fighter is out of the knowledge realm for someone whose best slur is "Flying Samosa".
> Quote me after you can design even a basic trainer.



It's hilarious to watch your holier-than-thou stance as an Indian selling this two-and-a-half-decade old loser of a plane which I personally have been following for a better part of decade for entertainment value and a lesson for -what-not-to-do with a fighter program. 

'Flying Samosa' is rather appropo. 

On a serious note, what is the indigenous Indian systems content for this fighter? I believe most of the systems (including the engine of course) are foreign made. The gandoos at HAL could not even integrate foreign systems into a coherent package, they failed at that too.

Fucked up package. Tried to make a modern Gnat and then failed miserably at that. Wings are too small even to carry a few long range AA missiles.

We buy a lot of things from India, fighter planes are not and will never be one of them.

Not even bullets.

Stop wasting your breath.

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## Bilal9

Lord Of Gondor said:


> View attachment 665906
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300846161964589056



This is NOT mutual interest. IT IS INDIAN INTEREST ONLY.

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## Lord Of Gondor

Bilal9 said:


> which I personally have been following for a better part of decade for entertainment value


I have also been personally following for over a decade for entertainment and know that here, there are a lot of East Pakistanis crossed with India for helping Bangladeshis.
Quote me if you have any knowledge and intent to discuss.


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## Bilal9

Lord Of Gondor said:


> I have also been personally following for over a decade for entertainment and know that here, there are a lot of East Pakistanis crossed with India for helping Bangladeshis.
> Quote me if you have any knowledge and intent to discuss.



I have no desire to engage in such a discussion, thanks for the offer however.

Indians themselves admit that the Tejas program was not a success outlined in golden letters. We have no desire to buy someone's effed-up gaffe and mistake.

When your High Commissioner in Dhaka presents pictures of Tejas to our Air Force Chief, it is seen as an image of an interesting oddity that cost the Indian Govt. thousands of crores of Rupees in lost revenue and time, and not something our Airforce covets or wants to operate. 

One certainly hopes something was learned in India - in the two decades spent in developing it.

Compared to the Tejas, the JF-17 is a success, even viewed in neutral sense.

We in Bangladesh don't like to offer insults to anyone bringing Mithai, our background and training behooves us differently. The recent sweet-talk from your MEA and the frantic trials to patch up with duct tape and baling wire, won't salvage the failed relationship between Bangladesh and India, despite our patience of many years.

But it'd be a nice moment of introspection for Indian Baboos in the MEA in Delhi, on what led up to this state of affairs and who 'lost Bangladesh'. The recent CAA/NRC/Art.370 fiasco and calling us 'Ghuspetia' was the final nail in the coffin.

And now you want to sell us fighter airplanes. Yeh Zindagi Bahot Ajeeb Cheez Hai....

There are serious flaws in Indian approaches of foreign policy regarding Bangladesh, and India lost this on most counts against China.

Instead of concocting conspiracy theories about turncoats and Jamatis, the average Indian govt. functionary should find out on why the average Bangladeshi on the street is so anti-Indian-Govt.

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## Lord Of Gondor

When some ignorant people claim they won't even "import bullets" from India but fail spectacularly in realising that even critical parts like the wings and tail for their mainstay MPA are made in India.


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## Michael Corleone

Dornier has multiple manufacturing plant, not Indian tech or manufacturing processes... besides our dorniers are being made in Germany and we will take delivery from there. Speaking of bullets, your pathetic army may buy from us, even AR that works better than insas

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## ghost250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301484514812866562
Last year MBA was awarded a contract by the Bangladesh Air Force for the supply & retrofit of 69 Mk10 Ejection Seats into the F-7/FT-7 & K-8W Aircraft. One of the decisions that helped us win the contract was a commitment to construct a new Centre of Excellence for Aircrew safety 

Although Bangladesh is still under Covid-19 lockdown, we were granted special permission from the BAF and other authorities to commence work. The pictures show the first foundation slabs being laid, the framework of the main building and work undertaken on the roof.

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## The Ronin

Last year MBA was awarded a contract by the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) for the supply and retrofit of 69 x Mk.10 Ejection Seats into the F-7/FT-7 and K-8W Aircraft. One of the decisions that helped us win the contract was a commitment to construct a new Centre of Excellence for Aircrew safety.

Although Bangladesh was still under Covid-19 lockdown, we were granted special permission from the BAF and other authorities to commence work. The pictures show the first foundation slabs being laid, the framework of the main building and work undertaken on the roof.

*This new centre will carry out the MRO for these new seats as well as the seats from future programmes like the new primary trainer and fighter aircraft competitions.*

© Martin-Baker Aircraft Company

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## ghost250

40 aircrafts of different varients f-7s are now operational with baf....with 14 k-8w...then what r those xtra 15/16 ejection seats for??


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## The Ronin

ghost250 said:


> 40 aircrafts of different varients f-7s are now operational with baf....with 14 k-8w...then what r those xtra 15/16 ejection seats for??

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## Bilal9

Lord Of Gondor said:


> When some ignorant people claim they won't even "import bullets" from India but fail spectacularly in realising that even critical parts like the wings and tail for their mainstay MPA are made in India.



Those kind of hammered/riveted wings and tails are made in people's personal garages in the US.






That is the pinnacle of sheetmetal technology India has achieved so far in 2020 which the West pioneered some hundred years ago. Making riveted sub-assemblies for doors/wings/tails for utility aircraft...

Don't dig yourself in the hole any further - compare yourself to China and see where they have come in the last thirty years. The lack of any sense of shame is uniquely Sanghi...

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> Last year MBA was awarded a contract by the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) for the supply and retrofit of 69 x Mk.10 Ejection Seats into the F-7/FT-7 and K-8W Aircraft. One of the decisions that helped us win the contract was a commitment to construct a new Centre of Excellence for Aircrew safety.
> 
> Although Bangladesh was still under Covid-19 lockdown, we were granted special permission from the BAF and other authorities to commence work. The pictures show the first foundation slabs being laid, the framework of the main building and work undertaken on the roof.
> 
> *This new centre will carry out the MRO for these new seats as well as the seats from future programmes like the new primary trainer and fighter aircraft competitions.*
> 
> © Martin-Baker Aircraft Company



This is a great step toward maintenance and upkeep of these crucial lifesaving devices. Pakistan started installing Martin Baker Ejection seats in their Chinese Shenyang F6's in the 70's (or even earlier maybe). They saved many pilot's lives as a result. 

No compromise should be made with pilot safety.

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## nomi007

We never forget our heroes

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## Dazzler

nomi007 said:


> We never forget our heroes



I was about to share this 

We never forget our heroes! 

Salute

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## DalalErMaNodi

Bangladesh Aeronautical centre working in close collaboration with big foreign names to design and build indigenous aircraft; Basic Trainer but light attack jet is also probable by 2021, Covid may cause some hindrance.

Locals to be involved heavily in the project.





__ https://www.facebook.com/1766281370346886/posts/2359574564350894

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/725207678056937


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## The Ronin

BAF 99-5480 did engine runs in GRE, with the paint shop, her temporary hall of residence.

PC- Trailspotter.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> BAF 99-5480 did engine runs in GRE, with the paint shop, her temporary hall of residence.
> 
> PC- Trailspotter.
> 
> View attachment 667583



It's a good thing that the technology for engines for the C-130's ( *Rolls-Royce AE 2100*) are owned by Rolls Royce UK. They can provide critical technical help without the US supplier global geopolitics crap involved.

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Air Force C-130J 99-5480/S3-AGG departing Cambridge on its 2nd Air Test as MCE02 to test it's new radar.

10/9/20.

PC- Justin Ward and Alexey Trailspotter

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## The Ronin

Following the delivery crew's arrival at Cambridge, the Bangladesh Air Force Lockheed C-130J 99-5480 (S3-AGG, ex RAF ZH882) goes up again on September 10, 2020 for a three-hour test flight over East Anglia.






The third of five ex RAF C-130J Hercules (ZH882) seen on her pre-delivery flight test at Cambridge Airport working a Marshall call sign of MCE02, but I think the BAF's own crew where aboard for the test. We see her departing in some intense heat haze from RWY 23 and return 3 hours later for an impressively short landing before taxing to parking via delta.






BAF Number 3 bagged



C-130J 99-5480 flies again as MCE 02, can't be long before shes on her way!

PC- Elliot Langran

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## DalalErMaNodi

This guy is something else...


Takes 5 points of information and stretches with countless lies for views. 


And pretends to predict things, things which any tom, dick and Harry on here will know.


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/MaxDefense/posts/1360092460828074





Yesterday at CBG

PC- Ade Carver

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## The Ronin

Hope they put all F -7s in museum soon. Though it's a total wet dream. 😅 BAF F-7MB (421) got it’s home in "Bangladesh Military Museum".






"Bangladesh Military Museum" under construction in Bijoy Sharani, Dhaka. Visited the old one twice, looking forward to visit the renovated one too. 😊

PC- 12 DME ARC Aviation photography. (Both Photos)






I also hope BAF took a peep. 😋 😊





__ https://www.facebook.com/planespottersbangladesh/posts/1560194150824156









__ https://www.facebook.com/planespottersbangladesh/posts/1559999800843591









__ https://www.facebook.com/BDAviationHub/posts/3291695150878988









__ https://www.facebook.com/planespottersbangladesh/posts/1560949834081921

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## The Ronin

The third Bangladesh Air Force Lockheed C-130J (99-5480, S3-AGG) finally departing on September 16, 2020 at 10:10 UTC to the new home from Cambridge, where she has been refurbished from ex Royal Air Force C.5 aircraft ZH882.






The third of five ex RAF C-130J C.5s exported to Bangladesh and converted by Marshall ADG at Cambridge Airport. 99-5480/S3-AGG seen on delivery to her new home in Bangladesh via Cairo. *Such a smart scheme on these BAF Hercs and this being the 1st to sport the new larger titles and roundel.*






Bangladesh Air Force C-130J 99-5480/S3-AGG on its delivery flight via Cairo today.

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## saif

Why are we buying very old second hand transport plane from U.K.? Our defense budget has reached $4 billion mark. We can afford new planes.


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## Destranator

saif said:


> Why are we buying very old second hand transport plane from U.K.? Our defense budget has reached $4 billion mark. We can afford new planes.


What are you on about mate? These C-130Js although ~20 years old are state-of-the-art. C-130s last multiple decades. They are being customised for BAF by Marshall Aerospace.
BAF is getting them without paying the heavy premiums associated with brand new aircraft.

This is one of the best purchases in Bangladesh's defence history.
Rarely do I ever appreciate BAF decisions. (Ask @The Ronin what I think of BAF in general)..

A $4 billion budget is nothing as most of it goes towards upkeep.

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## Michael Corleone

saif said:


> Why are we buying very old second hand transport plane from U.K.? Our defense budget has reached $4 billion mark. We can afford new planes.


inflation rise does not equal to purchasing power


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## The Ronin

Looks like BAF received something today.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Looks like BAF received something today.
> 
> View attachment 670884


the migs should be back... the rest four should be going by now...

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## SpaceMan18

Hey guys I'm new here lol , by the way did this guy just pull this info out of his *** ?

It's almost like he's forgot about the American sanctions


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## Destranator

__ https://www.facebook.com/226131374471410/posts/1084074768677062


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hey guys I'm new here lol , by the way did this guy just pull this info out of his *** ?
> 
> It's almost like he's forgot about the American sanctions


This guy needs to be slapped behind his ears.

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> This guy needs to be slapped behind his ears.



I agree lol , this guy supports Iran a lot for some odd reasons.


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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/725207678056937




Satellites in 2-3 years huh , wonder if Bangladesh Aerospace sector is planning on making space rockets ? 

I mean India has ISRO with 1.9 billion dollar budget , and even Indonesia has sounding rockets so why can't Bangladesh ? 🚀🛰


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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> Satellites in 2-3 years huh , wonder if Bangladesh Aerospace sector is planning on making space rockets ?
> 
> I mean India has ISRO with 1.9 billion dollar budget , and even Indonesia has sounding rockets so why can't Bangladesh ? 🚀🛰



There is no reason why BD can not. Rocket and satelite tech can simply be bought. BUET has sent up mini satelite already so for 50th anniversary of independence it is possible.


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> There is no reason why BD can not. Rocket and satelite tech can simply be bought. BUET has sent up mini satelite already so for 50th anniversary of independence it is possible.


rocket technology falls under military tech... same reasons why spacex rockets are classified military tech


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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> There is no reason why BD can not. Rocket and satelite tech can simply be bought. BUET has sent up mini satelite already so for 50th anniversary of independence it is possible.



True lol , Indian rockets use reversed engineered European and Russian engines. 

We can easily make a space program with 1.9-2 billion dollars, we can't let India dominate space and them trying to force us to use their launch vehicles for our satellite launches.


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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> rocket technology falls under military tech... same reasons why spacex rockets are classified military tech



Yes I agree as a space enthusiast , the moment you put a warhead on a rocket it becomes a missile. Iran and North Korea made their space rockets out of Scud or some kind of ballistic missiles and managed to put a satellite up into LEO. 

So it can't be too difficult for Bangladesh to do it ? Just some great leadership with space ambitions.


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yes I agree as a space enthusiast , the moment you put a warhead on a rocket it becomes a missile. Iran and North Korea made their space rockets out of Scud or some kind of ballistic missiles and managed to put a satellite up into LEO.
> 
> So it can't be too difficult for Bangladesh to do it ? Just some great leadership with space ambitions.


Proper experienced manpower is what might be a big hurdle. I’m disappointed the ballistic missile project was sidelined


----------



## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Proper experienced manpower is what might be a big hurdle. I’m disappointed the ballistic missile project was sidelined




It was sidelined either it's a lie to keep Indian spies out , or India screwed it up. 

Skilled manpower is kinda an issue but won't be as much , idk if bandgubandu University teaches about rocket engines though. They should start to , we need to get knowledge on rocket engines and rockets for any future joint developed missile tech.


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## nomi007

C-130J induction in the Bangladesh airforce is a very impressive move.
If Bangladesh inducts Saab Gripen NG in BAF, this will boost BAF air superiority


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## SpaceMan18

nomi007 said:


> C-130J induction in the Bangladesh airforce is a very impressive move.
> If Bangladesh inducts Saab Gripen NG in BAF, this will boost BAF air superiority




Lmao Gripen ? It's not twin engine for our MRCA needs and Bangladesh already rejected it. Not a bad fighter but not for us cause it uses an American engine.


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## Bilal9

I foresee at some point - a few of the C-130J's converted to KC-130J refuelling tankers. Saudi and French already have them, or close to getting them. No need for larger KC-10's, too large for our needs.


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> rocket technology falls under military tech... same reasons why spacex rockets are classified military tech




Spacex rockets have more use than your bog standard rockets....hence the designation....plus its funded by us military....


There are other private commercial satellite launchers around the world. All tech can be freely purchased.

For missiles rockets are no longer the issue for anyone... it is the guidance and the communication system that is the challenge....


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## saif

We need to acquire space technology as the Indians are planning to militarize the space in the future. China can be our partner in space program.


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## SpaceMan18

saif said:


> We need to acquire space technology as the Indians are planning to militarize the space in the future. China can be our partner in space program.



lmao no , China is alright but we can't trust them too much. I say Japan and a bit of Russia or Ukraine. Japan for the certain critical technology and Ukraine or Russia for heavy to medium lift cryogenic rocket engines. 

China is making a space station by 2024 I think , we can make a module and the Chinese can dock it and host Bangladeshi astronauts.


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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> Spacex rockets have more use than your bog standard rockets....hence the designation....plus its funded by us military....
> 
> 
> There are other private commercial satellite launchers around the world. All tech can be freely purchased.
> 
> For missiles rockets are no longer the issue for anyone... it is the guidance and the communication system that is the challenge....



Yep I I agree, it takes 7-10 years now with foreign support to make a pretty decent to good space program. 

heck even Turkey started one , in a couple of years from now I think we might see Turkish made launch vehicles. 

If Bangladesh wants a say in the future , we have to make a space agency with some good capabilities. 

Plus we don't need 20 billion dollars , just like 2-3 billion will do


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## SpaceMan18

Bilal9 said:


> I foresee at some point - a few of the C-130J's converted to KC-130J refuelling tankers. Saudi and French already have them, or close to getting them. No need for larger KC-10's, too large for our needs.



Ah , only if we had modern 4++ gen multi role fighter jets to refuel

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Spacex rockets have more use than your bog standard rockets....hence the designation....plus its funded by us military....
> 
> 
> There are other private commercial satellite launchers around the world. All tech can be freely purchased.
> 
> For missiles rockets are no longer the issue for anyone... it is the guidance and the communication system that is the challenge....


Ukraine’s Yuzmash is in a critical state, I live in the city where the company is based, its full of rockets everywhere... they’re idling most of the time since no one has any demand to commission them to design new ones... bd can buy off tech from them... but I reckon anti missile tech proliferation treaty we signed would come in the way... best would be to sign up a partnership to design a new one

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## SpaceMan18

This mf did 0 fücking research and literally copies Defense update Bangaldesh videos. 

Everytime I hear his stupid voice I wanna invade Poland

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Ukraine’s Yuzmash is in a critical state, I live in the city where the company is based, its full of rockets everywhere... they’re idling most of the time since no one has any demand to commission them to design new ones... bd can buy off tech from them... but I reckon anti missile tech proliferation treaty we signed would come in the way... best would be to sign up a partnership to design a new one



Just say it's for space rockets " wink " " wink "

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Just say it's for space rockets " wink " " wink "


Let’s be real, bd’s govt is shortsighted so they’ll never waste money on a “useless project” like this unless they can strap bangabandhu’s pic on the nose and call it shonar bangla

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Let’s be real, bd’s govt is shortsighted so they’ll never waste money on a “useless project” like this unless they can strap bangabandhu’s pic on the nose and call it shonar bangla


 
I mean it's not useless since we can launch satellites for low prices with reusable technology , and I bet our rocket series will be named like Banghubadhu 1,2,3 etc 

the milesecond we land a rover on the moon , it's gonna put Awami league's flag first before Bangladesh's lmao


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> I mean it's not useless since we can launch satellites for low prices with reusable technology , and I bet our rocket series will be named like Banghubadhu 1,2,3 etc
> 
> the milesecond we land a rover on the moon , it's gonna put Awami league's flag first before Bangladesh's lmao


Nah, they’ll carry a statue of bangabandhu... imagine that

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## SpaceMan18

I swear to god this mf really be using WIKIPEDIA as a viable source , he keeps forgetting about U.S sanctions lmao.

Also did this man literally state Eurofighter Typhoon as F-7 replacement ?  

He's high asf honestly , Imagine the logistic support nightmare with Su30s and Typhoons


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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Nah, they’ll carry a statue of bangabandhu... imagine that




Lmao we will need a 130 ton launch capacity to get that statue up to the Moon , or just pay SpaceX or Nasa to do it and say some shet like " Bangladesh is a superpower " for Awami League propaganda

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Ukraine’s Yuzmash is in a critical state, I live in the city where the company is based, its full of rockets everywhere... they’re idling most of the time since no one has any demand to commission them to design new ones... bd can buy off tech from them... but I reckon anti missile tech proliferation treaty we signed would come in the way... best would be to sign up a partnership to design a new one



You basic satellite launching rocket is not very fast. Offensive missile tech and rockets are different. BD wont be subject to any issues when it comes to rockets for space exploration.

This is the crack in the proliferation treaty that the Iranians are exploiting and so should we.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> You basic satellite launching rocket is not very fast. Offensive missile tech and rockets are different. BD wont be subject to any issues when it comes to rockets for space exploration.
> 
> This is the crack in the proliferation treaty that the Iranians are exploiting and so should we.


The difference is the payload and fuel, engines remain the same for the most part


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> I swear to god this mf really be using WIKIPEDIA as a viable source , he keeps forgetting about U.S sanctions lmao.
> 
> Also did this man literally state Eurofighter Typhoon as F-7 replacement ?
> 
> He's high asf honestly , Imagine the logistic support nightmare with Su30s and Typhoons


Magir pola. At kichu na

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> The difference is the payload and fuel, engines remain the same for the most part




Correct , missiles use solid fuel since it's not throttleable and rockets use liquid fuel which can be controlled.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> You basic satellite launching rocket is not very fast. Offensive missile tech and rockets are different. BD wont be subject to any issues when it comes to rockets for space exploration.
> 
> This is the crack in the proliferation treaty that the Iranians are exploiting and so should we.




We should , at least the Bangladesh youth has something forward to look to. 

Maybe eventually we will make a space agency , if India can do it so can we.


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## saif

SpaceMan18 said:


> Maybe eventually we will make a space agency , if India can do it so can we.


We already have a space agency. It's SPARRSO.





__





বাংলাদেশ মহাকাশ গবেষণা ও দূর অনুধাবন প্রতিষ্ঠান (স্পারসো)







www.sparrso.gov.bd

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## Destranator

saif said:


> We already have a space agency. It's SPARRSO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> বাংলাদেশ মহাকাশ গবেষণা ও দূর অনুধাবন প্রতিষ্ঠান (স্পারসো)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sparrso.gov.bd


Our space research initiatives are sparse so...

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## SpaceMan18

saif said:


> We already have a space agency. It's SPARRSO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> বাংলাদেশ মহাকাশ গবেষণা ও দূর অনুধাবন প্রতিষ্ঠান (স্পারসো)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sparrso.gov.bd



Lmao they don't count , all they do is sit in a room an monitor satellites 

True space programs have launch capabilities

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## Avicenna

Not directly related to BAF but interesting in the context of supposedly imminent procurement.


----------



## Valar.

BD should buy Bayraktar TB2.

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## The Ronin



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## Michael Corleone

Next year bd will hold an aero expo for the first time in its history, it’s also 50th anniversary of the airforce. So good news to follow

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Next year bd will hold an aero expo for the first time in its history, it’s also 50th anniversary of the airforce. So good news to follow



OH that's good , but what about our own modern fighter jets ?


----------



## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


>



The helicopter formation reminds me of the Vietnam War


----------



## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Next year bd will hold an aero expo for the first time in its history, it’s also 50th anniversary of the airforce. So good news to follow


Hopefully mrca and attack heli will be announced there 😶

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## The Ronin

A Bangladesh Air Force C-130J Super Hercules




S3-AGF/99-5482 was spotted at Minsk, Belarus by aircraft spotters (MSQ.SPOTTER) on 1 October 2020.


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## Avicenna

Bangladesh Air Force purchasing advanced Russian anti-ship missiles


Restricted Content This is a Premium content. Please purchase to view full content. Premium Article $10.00 Add to basket Purchases can be made with Credit




www.defseca.com





Apologies can't cut and paste the original article.

Makes sense though with the -BM upgrade that they would be buying these.






This move (6 units for the upgrade) would be logical only if they are getting Flankers after all.

Wonder why they didn't just buy some more used Fulcrums and put them through this upgrade to make a full squadron?

Also wonder about the commonality between KH-31A and YJ-91 with any potential J-10 purchase.

This upgrade pathway doesn't make sense if its only limited to the 8 aircraft in the inventory unless it was dirt cheap and fast.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh Air Force purchasing advanced Russian anti-ship missiles
> 
> 
> Restricted Content This is a Premium content. Please purchase to view full content. Premium Article $10.00 Add to basket Purchases can be made with Credit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies can't cut and paste the original article.
> 
> Makes sense though with the -BM upgrade that they would be buying these.
> 
> View attachment 676750
> 
> 
> This move (6 units for the upgrade) would be logical only if they are getting Flankers after all.
> 
> Wonder why they didn't just buy some more used Fulcrums and put them through this upgrade to make a full squadron?
> 
> Also wonder about the commonality between KH-31A and YJ-91 with any potential J-10 purchase.
> 
> This upgrade pathway doesn't make sense if its only limited to the 8 aircraft in the inventory unless it was dirt cheap and fast.



These are the best we got....given no purchases are on the horizon i guess it makes sense to upgrade these.


----------



## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> These are the best we got....given no purchases are on the horizon i guess it makes sense to upgrade these.



I think we have definitely purchased something at least , just not publicly announced.


----------



## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> I think we have definitely purchased something at least , just not publicly announced.



No reason to keep it quiet if we had.....infact an announcement will change calculus of our enemies.


----------



## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh Air Force purchasing advanced Russian anti-ship missiles
> 
> 
> Restricted Content This is a Premium content. Please purchase to view full content. Premium Article $10.00 Add to basket Purchases can be made with Credit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies can't cut and paste





SpaceMan18 said:


> I think we have definitely purchased something at least , just not publicly announced.


The fighter jet exporting nations are desperate for sales and there is better advertisement for them than actual sales.

If BAF had purchased anything they would be screaming from the rooftops.


----------



## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> These are the best we got....given no purchases are on the horizon i guess it makes sense to upgrade these.


They’re moving to martitime strike 
Got new information but they weren’t confirmed to me until today, no further comments


----------



## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re moving to martitime strike
> Got new information but they weren’t confirmed to me until today, no further comments




What happens to the defense of land..... the f7s at best may just be able to provide some point defense.....

Yaks and the rest will just provide target practice opportunities to our enemies....

Our skies are exposed.... we have minimal sam capacity.... we are undone by BAFs idiocy

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> What happens to the defense of land..... the f7s at best may just be able to provide some point defense.....
> 
> Yaks and the rest will just provide target practice opportunities to our enemies....
> 
> Our skies are exposed.... we have minimal sam capacity.... we are undone by BAFs idiocy




Honestly man I agree it's just fk sad what the heck happened to our dam Air Force. 

U.K I think that's where you're from I guess ,is offering Bangladesh SAMs and idk if they want to force us to buy the SAMs with the Typhoons. 

I personally trust Turkish Hisar for now , plus Hisar is NATO centric SAM system and that helps us a lot.


----------



## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re moving to martitime strike
> Got new information but they weren’t confirmed to me until today, no further comments



I can tell you it ain't no Su30s due to U.S sanctions , Typhoons seem like the only option I feel like.


----------



## Avicenna

@Michael Corleone

Give us all a clue!

Anyways, excited for the upgraded -BM to come.

Hopefully they have a snazzy new camo at least!


----------



## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re moving to martitime strike
> Got new information but they weren’t confirmed to me until today, no further comments


Bhai give us a clue please :3..is it France?..is it Italy? Is it something else ? :3..A simple name will do :3


----------



## PDF

BlackViking said:


> Bhai give us a clue please :3..is it France?..is it Italy? Is it something else ? :3..A simple name will do :3


"The name starts with T. It's Tejas you moron, not Typhoons."

P.S: The word 'moron' was just used as part of expression and not directed at you or anybody.


----------



## Avicenna

PDF said:


> "The name starts with T. It's Tejas you moron, not Typhoons."
> 
> P.S: The word 'moron' was just used as part of expression and not directed at you or anybody.



No way is it Tejas.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> No way is it Tejas.





It is NOT Tejas.


----------



## PDF

Avicenna said:


> No way is it Tejas.


I hope not but now I am at a stage where any induction, even if it has to be Tejas, will be welcomed then no induction by BAF. The later you introduce the platform, the more time will it take to operationalize and develop tactics and strategies. MAF will be more familiar with the recently Jf17s and will be at a better position. Just like Pakistan might be losing in terms of aircrafts with India having formidable Su-30MKIs, Migs now Rafales too, (leaving Tejas aside lol), but we still get the better of them due to more time spent with our fighter jets and equiping them with the right weapons.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

PDF said:


> I hope not but now I am at a stage where any induction, even if it has to be Tejas, will be welcomed then no induction by BAF. The later you introduce the platform, the more time will it take to operationalize and develop tactics and strategies. MAF will be more familiar with the recently Jf17s and will be at a better position. Just like Pakistan might be losing in terms of aircrafts with India having formidable Su-30MKIs, Migs now Rafales too, (leaving Tejas aside lol), but we still get the better of them due to more time spent with our fighter jets and equiping them with the right weapons.




The tender is for Dual Engine MRCA, preferably of western origin.


Tejas is not MRCA, nor dual engine or western.

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## Avicenna

PDF said:


> I hope not but now I am at a stage where any induction, even if it has to be Tejas, will be welcomed then no induction by BAF. The later you introduce the platform, the more time will it take to operationalize and develop tactics and strategies. MAF will be more familiar with the recently Jf17s and will be at a better position. Just like Pakistan might be losing in terms of aircrafts with India having formidable Su-30MKIs, Migs now Rafales too, (leaving Tejas aside lol), but we still get the better of them due to more time spent with our fighter jets and equiping them with the right weapons.



I agree this delay is less than ideal.

But I have a feeling something good will be coming soon.

As I said many months ago, I think alot has to do with geopolitical sands shifting.

Not to mention COVID.

What I don't understand though is this upgrade to the Mig-29.

Why introduce new weapons for such a limited number of platforms.

Unless they plan on getting more that can carry them. i.e Mig-35 or Su-30.

It also indicates these Mig-29s will be around for quite some time.

Again doesn't make sense unless BAF is expecting awhile before it actually receives new fighters.

Perhaps due to a Western source? (Which would take longer to introduce)

Again all just speculation.

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## PDF

Do people think BAF would or should add more F-7s to augment and use numbers to keep defense up till newer platform is inducted after a couple or more years?
Pakistan will soon replace all F-7s (some 2 squadrons) including pgs in a couple of years so it might be right to give them to BAF as with us, they will simply be dumped for reserves.

BAF should go for Su-35 if it chooses Russians, J10-CB (Bangladesh varient) if Chinese or Typhoons T3 if European ( BAF ha great relations with UK and other Europeans don't have issue). Gripen NG and US options are fine too but Typhoon is love and feels more coherent with out Air Forces for some reason.


----------



## Avicenna

PDF said:


> Do people think BAF would or should add more F-7s to augment and use numbers to keep defense up till newer platform is inducted after a couple or more years?
> Pakistan will soon replace all F-7s (some 2 squadrons) including pgs in a couple of years so it might be right to give them to BAF as with us, they will simply be dumped for reserves.
> 
> BAF should go for Su-35 if it chooses Russians, J10-CB (Bangladesh varient) if Chinese or Typhoons T3 if European ( BAF ha great relations with UK and other Europeans don't have issue). Gripen NG and US options are fine too but Typhoon is love and feels more coherent with out Air Forces for some reason.



This is a layman's take:

1) BAF needs to recruit, train and raise up adequate amounts of airman and associated personnel needed for an expanded force.

2) Create infrastructure needed for said force.

3) Incorporate and gain proficiency in the use of advanced munitions and techniques. i.e. BVR, stand off AGM.

Perhaps the -BM upgrade fulfills the third point, albeit in small numbers.

In terms of additional F-7PG, I would pass as this doesn't move the needle on capabilities and only adds numbers.

What BAF needs is of course an upgrade quantitatively but more importantly qualitatively.

The real key is gonna be the successful recruitment of capable individuals from amongst the population.

There are core reasons why nations like Israel and Pakistan have the quality air forces that they have.

It came from vision first and foremost and then the will to execute.

To be honest, I doubt that exists for BAF.

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## PDF

Avicenna said:


> To be honest, I doubt that exists for BAF.


It does, cause PAF and BAF share the same blood. We all have reservations with our airforces but we also believe that they will live upto their name and carry onn the legacy, their mentors have passed onto them.

The issue is mostly political and financial. I never doubt the military competency but the leadership needs to be tactful in handling the non-military domains i.e political and funding aspects.


----------



## BlackViking

PDF said:


> "The name starts with T. It's Tejas you moron, not Typhoons."
> 
> P.S: The word 'moron' was just used as part of expression and not directed at you or anybody.


"The name starts with T. and its typhoon, take a screenshot you moron"
P.S: The word "moron" was just used as part of expression and not directed at you or anybody.

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## Avicenna

PDF said:


> It does, cause PAF and BAF share the same blood. We all have reservations with our airforces but we also believe that they will live upto their name and carry onn the legacy, their mentors have passed onto them.
> 
> The issue is mostly political and financial. I never doubt the military competency but the leadership needs to be tactful in handling the non-military domains i.e political and funding aspects.



The substrate is there.

What I am concerned about is the lack of political will and vision to make it happen.

I am convinced Bengalis can make excellent fighter pilots.

I wish BAF used the Israeli model to pick out youth and feed them into a Western influenced training system.

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## Michael Corleone

PDF said:


> "The name starts with T. It's Tejas you moron, not Typhoons."
> 
> P.S: The word 'moron' was just used as part of expression and not directed at you or anybody.


if tejas, it would have filled the force 10 years back


----------



## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> @Michael Corleone
> 
> Give us all a clue!
> 
> Anyways, excited for the upgraded -BM to come.
> 
> Hopefully they have a snazzy new camo at least!


BM upgraded, 4 of them... 
don't expect rafales even though a lot of youtubers are claiming so

way over 162 million

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> I can tell you it ain't no Su30s due to U.S sanctions , Typhoons seem like the only option I feel like.


definitely not what Masum from defence update bangladesh is saying, he's a faggot


----------



## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> What happens to the defense of land..... the f7s at best may just be able to provide some point defense.....
> 
> Yaks and the rest will just provide target practice opportunities to our enemies....
> 
> Our skies are exposed.... we have minimal sam capacity.... we are undone by BAFs idiocy


SAM and anti aircraft guns are our main hope. i would invest in this field instead of armour for the next 5 years

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> definitely not what Masum from defence update bangladesh is saying, he's a faggot




Faggot is going easy on him... That dude has the IQ of a maggot.


Spreading Fake News for views, outright pathetic.


Ummah Chummah type loser, who has more allegiance to Iran for who knows what reason than he does to Bangladesh.




He calls Midget Submarines 'mizet shubmarin'.... Clueless peasant like most of his followers.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> BM upgraded, 4 of them...
> don't expect rafales even though a lot of youtubers are claiming so
> 
> way over 162 million


Bingo.....
Here is the reality of the situation: The supplier/country that will offer the easiest financing terms will win the contract.

DGDP is quite annoyed with the Russians thanks to their price gouging tactics.
They have demanded ridiculous prices for a number of army and air force hardware.

The procurement of twin engine fighters is likely to remain in limbo unless the Brits can offer easy finance.

In the meanwhile J-10s are likely to be procured before MRCAs thanks to friendly terms offered by China.

I would have liked BAF to go for Gripens with ToT + training similar to what the Brazilians have done but the BAF leadership are too much of imbeciles to be that pragmatic. A Gripen + J-10C combo in the single engine segment would have been very formidable and sanction proof.[/QUOTE]


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> Bingo.....
> Here is the reality of the situation: The supplier/country that will offer the easiest financing terms will win the contract.
> 
> DGDP is quite annoyed with the Russians thanks to their price gouging tactics.
> They have demanded ridiculous prices for a number of army and air force hardware.
> 
> The procurement of twin engine fighters is likely to remain in limbo unless the Brits can offer easy finance.
> 
> In the meanwhile J-10s are likely to be procured before MRCAs thanks to friendly terms offered by China.
> 
> I would have liked BAF to go for Gripens with ToT + training similar to what the Brazilians have done but the BAF leadership are too much of imbeciles to be that pragmatic. A Gripen + J-10C combo in the single engine segment would have been very formidable and sanction proof.






We are not the kind of country that gets sanctioned to begin with.


----------



## xbat

F7-BG s of Bangladesh got Roketsan TEBER-82 Laser guided munition upgrade. What targeting pod BD have? is there a possibility to order Aselpod ?











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314132932009824256

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## mb444

xbat said:


> F7-BG s of Bangladesh got Roketsan TEBER-82 Laser guided munition upgrade. What targeting pod BD have? is there a possibility to order Aselpod ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314132932009824256



If true then F7s gains maritime strike capability.... good i suppose...


----------



## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Bingo.....
> Here is the reality of the situation: The supplier/country that will offer the easiest financing terms will win the contract.
> 
> DGDP is quite annoyed with the Russians thanks to their price gouging tactics.
> They have demanded ridiculous prices for a number of army and air force hardware.
> 
> The procurement of twin engine fighters is likely to remain in limbo unless the Brits can offer easy finance.
> 
> In the meanwhile J-10s are likely to be procured before MRCAs thanks to friendly terms offered by China.
> 
> I would have liked BAF to go for Gripens with ToT + training similar to what the Brazilians have done but the BAF leadership are too much of imbeciles to be that pragmatic. A Gripen + J-10C combo in the single engine segment would have been very formidable and sanction proof.


[/QUOTE]
j10 is not in the picture for the forseeable future

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Faggot is going easy on him... That dude has the IQ of a maggot.
> 
> 
> Spreading Fake News for views, outright pathetic.
> 
> 
> Ummah Chummah type loser, who has more allegiance to Iran for who knows what reason than he does to Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He calls Midget Submarines 'mizet shubmarin'.... Clueless peasant like most of his followers.


he's your distant cousin from Barisal, chill bro


----------



## Michael Corleone

army will most probably get a bunch of atak AH

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> he's your distant cousin from Barisal, chill bro




Nigga, he's from New Open.


Rhoyal Distrik.


I'd rather have this frog for a cousin than DUB charlatan here.

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## BlackViking

j10 is not in the picture for the forseeable future
[/QUOTE]
What's the alternative bhai ?..what about mb replacement?


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

BlackViking said:


> j10 is not in the picture for the forseeable future


What's the alternative bhai ?..what about mb replacement?
[/QUOTE]


No J10c means F-7s are here to stay for the foreseeable future.


----------



## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> What's the alternative bhai ?..what about mb replacement?




No J10c means F-7s are here to stay for the foreseeable future.
[/QUOTE]
Heard few mb's are active again...so yeah..possible


----------



## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We are not the kind of country that gets sanctioned to begin with.


Sanctions come in many different forms. In BD context, a sanction could simply be a ban on US/Western origin military equipment. If we go to war with India, the US might block Sweden from supplying spares for Gripen. J-10s would then keep us fighting.

Of course this is the ideal, hypothetical scenario where BAF leadership has developed brains all of a sudden.

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## Imran Khan

any news of f-16 f-18 rafales eu fighters gripins and su-35 ?????????? i am almost old i want to see them here before i die

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> j10 is not in the picture for the forseeable future



Maybe but the F-7s are falling off the sky so single engine replacements are inevitable.
BAF might just wait until sixth gen fighter jets enter service as for them the idea is to always remain 2 gens behind.


----------



## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> any news of f-16 f-18 rafales eu fighters gripins and su-35 ?????????? i am almost old i want to see them here before i die


You forgot Su-30s, JF-17s, Typhoons, J-10s and MiG-35s


----------



## Imran Khan

Destranator said:


> You forgot Su-30s, JF-17s, Typhoons, J-10s and MiG-35s


i am old now i forget so many things it was started back then 15 years ago . in fact BD PM khalida zia announced it on 2000 if i am not mistake

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> i am old now i forget so many things it was started back then 15 years ago . in fact BD PM khalida zia announced it on 2000 if i am not mistake


LOL..Khaleda Zia is the BAF of the political arena.

She did not buy anything other than a squadron of BGs and instead cancelled the order for 8 additional MiG-29s and jailed BAF officers involved in the procurement out of jealousy.

The manufactured scandal has made BAF and govt very cautious about procuring expensive fighters.

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## Imran Khan

Destranator said:


> LOL..Khaleda Zia is the BAF of the political arena.
> 
> She did not buy anything other than a squadron of BGs and instead cancelled the order for 8 additional MiG-29s and jailed BAF officers involved in the procurement out of jealousy.
> 
> The manufactured scandal has BAF and govt very cautious about procuring expensive fighters.


yes i remember she said mig-29 operational cost is more then jets themselves we will buy new cheap to operate jests . since that time i am waiting but never see anything then f-7s


----------



## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Faggot is going easy on him... That dude has the IQ of a maggot.
> 
> 
> Spreading Fake News for views, outright pathetic.
> 
> 
> Ummah Chummah type loser, who has more allegiance to Iran for who knows what reason than he does to Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He calls Midget Submarines 'mizet shubmarin'.... Clueless peasant like most of his followers.



Dude I feel you lol , his content is utter trash and full on anti West and Iranian BS propaganda


Destranator said:


> LOL..Khaleda Zia is the BAF of the political arena.
> 
> She did not buy anything other than a squadron of BGs and instead cancelled the order for 8 additional MiG-29s and jailed BAF officers involved in the procurement out of jealousy.
> 
> The manufactured scandal has made BAF and govt very cautious about procuring expensive fighters.



I swear to god we better get some dam Thyphoon fighters along with some Hisar O SAMs or else we're sitting ducks.

It's been years now and still no on fighter in sight , 2021 better be the year we get something


Destranator said:


> Maybe but the F-7s are falling off the sky so single engine replacements are inevitable.
> BAF might just wait until sixth gen fighter jets enter service as for them the idea is to always remain 2 gens behind.



Sad but true , I feel Myanmar will have 5th gen before us

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Dude I feel you lol , his content is utter trash and full on anti West and Iranian BS propaganda
> 
> 
> I swear to god we better get some dam Thyphoon fighters along with some Hisar O SAMs or else we're sitting ducks.
> 
> It's been years now and still no on fighter in sight , 2021 better be the year we get something
> 
> 
> Sad but true , I feel Myanmar will have 5th gen before us


2021? No, nothing before 2024


----------



## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> 2021? No, nothing before 2024



@Arthur is clearly in the know!

By 2024 do you mean placement of order or delivery?


----------



## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> @Arthur is clearly in the know!
> 
> By 2024 do you mean placement of order or delivery?


delivery

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## alphapak

Imran Khan said:


> yes i remember she said mig-29 operational cost is more then jets themselves we will buy new cheap to operate jests . since that time i am waiting but never see anything then f-7s



If operational cost is the issue then Jf17 or Gripen should be the option for BAF.
Eurofighter are very costly, then dealing with 4 different countries is another 
thing.

Even Myanmar was quick to select the JF17 Thunder, BAF should go for JF17 block 3.


----------



## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> If operational cost is the issue then Jf17 or Gripen should be the option for BAF.
> Eurofighter are very costly, then dealing with 4 different countries is another
> thing.
> 
> Even Myanmar was quick to select the JF17 Thunder, BAF should go for JF17 block 3.


Give it a rest, it’s not going to happen

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## mb444

alphapak said:


> If operational cost is the issue then Jf17 or Gripen should be the option for BAF.
> Eurofighter are very costly, then dealing with 4 different countries is another
> thing.
> 
> Even Myanmar was quick to select the JF17 Thunder, BAF should go for JF17 block 3.



Eurofighter is British. BD will only have to deal with UK and there is no reason whatsoever that UK will refuse.

But there are no second hand jets available for sale and new jets if ordered will only ba availble after the arabs have been supplied. So 2024......worth the wait....but BAF has not made the deal from my understanding.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> Eurofighter is British. BD will only have to deal with UK and there is no reason whatsoever that UK will refuse.
> 
> But there are no second hand jets available for sale and new jets if ordered will only ba availble after the arabs have been supplied. So 2024......worth the wait....but BAF has not made the deal from my understanding.



We should get at least some Hisar O Medium Range SAMs while we wait for the Typhoons IF we actually ordered the Typhoons. 

Cause we don't know what Myanmar will do in the future so we will have to be ready.


----------



## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Give it a rest, it’s not going to happen



Well then they can go for Saab Gripen, if they want a low maintenance fighter jet.


mb444 said:


> Eurofighter is British. BD will only have to deal with UK and there is no reason whatsoever that UK will refuse.
> 
> But there are no second hand jets available for sale and new jets if ordered will only ba availble after the arabs have been supplied. So 2024......worth the wait....but BAF has not made the deal from my understanding.



How many Eurofighters BAF looking for? They are expensive and high maintenance.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

alphapak said:


> Well then they can go for Saab Gripen, if they want a low maintenance fighter jet.
> 
> 
> How many Eurofighters BAF looking for? They are expensive and high maintenance.




16 for now.


----------



## BlackViking

alphapak said:


> They are expensive and high maintenance.


BAE systems and Leonardo is working together to reduce the maintenance cost by 30-40%

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## mb444

alphapak said:


> Well then they can go for Saab Gripen, if they want a low maintenance fighter jet.
> 
> 
> How many Eurofighters BAF looking for? They are expensive and high maintenance.




From what i understood possibly 16 new and 16 second hand upgraded.

However the conversation remains inconclusive. My understanding foot dragging is BAF fault. Whilst there are no second hand fighters are for sale UK is willing to look at options amougst customers. BAF is unwilling to commit fully so things have not progressed.

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## alphapak

mb444 said:


> From what i understood possibly 16 new and 16 second hand upgraded.
> 
> However the conversation remains inconclusive. My understanding foot dragging is BAF fault. Whilst there are no second hand fighters are for sale UK is willing to look at options amougst customers. BAF is unwilling to commit fully so things have not progressed.



The Qatar air force deal for 24 Eurofighters was £5 billion (6.5b USD), I wonder how much
this deal will be for 32? I dont think they got the meteor in this deal as well.


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## DalalErMaNodi

alphapak said:


> The Qatar air force deal for 24 Eurofighters was £5 billion (6.5b USD), I wonder how much
> this deal will be for 32? I dont think they got the meteor in this deal as well.




BAF is going to get Meteor along with their EFTs.


Military attachés and Bangladeshi HC to UK paid a visit to MBDA (manufacturer of Meteor) last week, Sea Ceptor was discussed but that wasn't all they definitely discussed meteor.

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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> The Qatar air force deal for 24 Eurofighters was £5 billion (6.5b USD), I wonder how much
> this deal will be for 32? I dont think they got the meteor in this deal as well.



We can't get Gripens since it uses an American engine and that isn't good for us during wartimes cause America may block spare parts and maintenance. 

EuroFighter Typhoons are the best option and the only option


DalalErMaNodi said:


> BAF is going to get Meteor along with their EFTs.
> 
> 
> Military attachés and Bangladeshi HC to UK paid a visit to MBDA (manufacturer of Meteor) last week, Sea Ceptor was discussed but that wasn't all they definitely discussed meteor.



They also discussed SAMs I think ?


----------



## Michael Corleone

JohnWick said:


> Once you were against militarization but now spending 6.5 billion USD on it????
> Having said that does India allow you have a standing air force in the Eastern sector after a series of threats going on by Pakistan and China?


Militarization with grass on the table is not what we like to do, we love our food

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Militarization with grass on the table is not what we like to do, we love our food


Couldn't have put it better. Well said.


----------



## UKBengali

DalalErMaNodi said:


> BAF is going to get Meteor along with their EFTs.
> 
> 
> Military attachés and Bangladeshi HC to UK paid a visit to MBDA (manufacturer of Meteor) last week, Sea Ceptor was discussed but that wasn't all they definitely discussed meteor.



Who is Western fighter platform for? Probably Myanmar.

Export Eurofighter has AESA radar on a par with the F-22’s from 2005. Maybe on par with the current version on F-22 at most.

UK was shocked at how much better the F-35 AESA radar was over the new Eurofighter AESA and so is developing a more advanced one for it’s own Air Force.

China’s J-35 5th gen fighter is likely to be ready this decade with a better AESA radar than export Eurofighter and Myanmar may be flying them towards the latter part of the decade.

The AESA radar on the F-16V is better than export Eurofighter AESA as food for thought.


----------



## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Sorry for not wanting to lick white boots
> @WebMaster this is the kind of shit why your forum sucks
> 
> There’s no difference between export/ native euro fighters radars except captor M And the newer E variant. m is equipped in most native and export aircrafts. Captor e was first equipped in Kuwaiti aircrafts and is the most advanced version. Highly unlikely UK’s radar will be offered into EFT program




My point is that the AESA radar offered for export is way inferior to the current US AESA tech as seen on F-35 and F-16V. Whether any of the partner nations use it is irrelevant frankly.

Export Eurofighter will have AESA radar at similar tech levels to what the US produced in 2005 on the F-22.

AESA radar technology has moved on since then and so food for thought on how useful the export Eurofighter will be if it starts being inducted from 2025 onwards.


----------



## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> The british were correct because they knew Bangladeshi muslims are not sheep and they will never accept foreign colonial dominance.
> 
> 
> On the other hand they saw in your people a bunch of infantalised imbaciles that would die for them on command and can be made to believe they are a martial race.....
> 
> What is so funny is you are claiming british colonial administration position as somekind of validation for your kind.... even now it seems the conditioning that made you slaves remains.... LOL...
> 
> Its hilarious and sad......umm....mainly hilarious....


if 2024/25 is the date of induction, they could probably order it with ECRS mk2 just like Kuwait did with captor e before it was even ready. The radar was offered to Finland as part of its fighter program

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## WebMaster

The topic is about Bangladesh Air Force, please stick to the topic.


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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> if 2024/25 is the date of induction, they could probably order it with ECRS mk2 just like Kuwait did with captor e before it was even ready. The radar was offered to Finland as part of its fighter program



I agree , but dam we gotta wait 3 years for a fighter jet


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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> I agree , but dam we gotta wait 3 years for a fighter jet





It's brand spanking new Tranche 3s (if it's EFT), well worth the wait.

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## Michael Corleone

Magi ekhon ban korosh na ken? Ma choda magi

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Magi ekhon ban korosh na ken? Ma choda magi




Ban korbe keno ? He's only stating what they all believe deep inside them, ora shob same, thank God for shadinota.

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Ban korbe keno ? He's only stating what they all believe deep inside them, ora shob same, thank God for shadinota.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 678246
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> DalalErMaNodi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ban korbe keno ? He's only stating what they all believe deep inside them, ora shob same, thank God for shadinota.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 678246
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey ! East Asians aren't trolls
Click to expand...




DalalErMaNodi said:


> It's brand spanking new Tranche 3s (if it's EFT), well worth the wait.



True , I just hope we get the Hisar O much quicker cause I don't want Myanmar to get an edge over us for 3 whole years.


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## mb444

The conversation is going off on a tangent..... BAF has sadly not placed any order for EFT....

We still do not have any fighters nor any plans for aquiring new fighters. 2024 may well be 2124 at this stage.


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## saif

I think BAF won't buy euro fighter because of price consideration. The only aircraft that has the chance to be bought by BAF is J-10C.


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## SpaceMan18

saif said:


> I think BAF won't buy euro fighter because of price consideration. The only aircraft that has the chance to be bought by BAF is J-10C.



There's no point in a J-10C when the MRCA clearly states that the fighter jet must have dual engines. 

Price isn't the issue , the leadership of BAF is


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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> There's no point in a J-10C when the MRCA clearly states that the fighter jet must have dual engines.
> 
> Price isn't the issue , the leadership of BAF is


Mama, ak bashi batil bostapocha tender biggopti te mohabharot uddhar hobe na.
Single engine replacements are required for F-7s regardless of how hard BAF thumb-twiddles on MRCA procurement.


mb444 said:


> The conversation is going off on a tangent..... BAF has sadly not placed any order for EFT....
> 
> We still do not have any fighters nor any plans for aquiring new fighters. 2024 may well be 2124 at this stage.



@idune BAF is the real cheerleader dalal. Instead of abusing other members here why don't you join me in bashing BAF on a regular basis.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Mama, ak bashi batil bostapocha tender biggopti te mohabharot uddhar hobe na.
> Single engine replacements are required for F-7s regardless of how hard BAF thumb-twiddles on MRCA procurement.
> 
> 
> @idune BAF is the real cheerleader dalal. Instead of abusing other members here why don't you join me in bashing BAF on a regular basis.



Lmao true , Government gave them the money to buy these new Fighters but BAF apparently waiting which makes no sense cause why keep it a secret when you're going to eventually show it ? 

How the heck like a country Myanmar can threaten us with their Air Force when their economy is WORSER than ours ? 


Bangaldesh leaders like to show power , but they're pussies when it comes to dealing with other nations.

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## SpaceMan18

Unrelated but just wanted to share that the Philippine Air Force is likely to get their 4++ gen fighters before us. 

I guess other countries keep reminding me how terrible BAF leadership truly is

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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> Unrelated but just wanted to share that the Philippine Air Force is likely to get their 4++ gen fighters before us.
> 
> I guess other countries keep reminding me how terrible BAF leadership truly is





Philippines air force is currently a joke, limited to COIN missions. They lack any actual MRCA or Combat Jets, trainers is all they have.


Those jets will make them a real AF.


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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Philippines air force is currently a joke, limited to COIN missions. They lack any actual MRCA or Combat Jets, trainers is all they have.
> 
> 
> Those jets will make them a real AF.



True lol , South Korean Fighter/Trainers they have aren't bad but not real fighter jets lol. 

I swear to god if they get their 4++ gen fighter before us honestly I'm done

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## ghost250

k-8w jet trainers on the way to bangladesh

The Bangladesh Air Force is ferrying its newly acquired K-8W jet trainers from China.
A contingent of BAF pilots were sent to China to bring back the aircraft. It is expected that the newly purchased aircraft will make stopover in a neighbouring country before landing in Bangladesh.









K-8W jet trainers arrive in Bangladesh


The Bangladesh Air Force has ferried its newly acquired K-8W jet trainers from China. Earlier a contingent of BAF pilots were sent to China to




www.defseca.com

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## Destranator

ghost250 said:


> k-8w jet trainers on the way to bangladesh
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force is ferrying its newly acquired K-8W jet trainers from China.
> A contingent of BAF pilots were sent to China to bring back the aircraft. It is expected that the newly purchased aircraft will make stopover in a neighbouring country before landing in Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> K-8W jet trainers arrive in Bangladesh
> 
> 
> The Bangladesh Air Force has ferried its newly acquired K-8W jet trainers from China. Earlier a contingent of BAF pilots were sent to China to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com


If BAF was a child learning to ride, he would train on 3 different sets of training wheels spending 5 years on each before buying a proper bike.


----------



## ghost250



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## mb444

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 679649
> View attachment 679650
> View attachment 679651



Garbage....absolute waste of time and resources...

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## alphapak

I hope the BAF have a big budget, they need 1 billion usd to buy 4 eurofighters.
Qatar deal was 6.5 billion usd for 24.


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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> I hope the BAF have a big budget, they need 1 billion usd to buy 4 eurofighters.
> Qatar deal was 6.5 billion usd for 24.



Lmao Typhoons eh , I'm still dreaming of that


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## bdslph

our air force has become transport and trainer air force

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## BlackViking

mb444 said:


> Garbage....absolute waste of time and resources...


Hold on bhai...we are gonna see 16 more of this 😂

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## mb444

BlackViking said:


> Hold on bhai...we are gonna see 16 more of this 😂


I know.....its such a shame.....BAF rank and file along with the nation is being made a fool by BAF management..... The trainers are not bad at all, will provide rudementary ground attack capacity....... but at this stage not what we need.....

BAF is more interested in aerobatics then any real fighting capacity...

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## Nike

Why not taking prudent action, my MoD right now negotiate directly for second hand Typhoon even with country we barely known like Austria. There is more you can get with close relationship between UK and Bangladesh, why not taking the initiative? Just like when Bd get the C130J


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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Hold on bhai...we are gonna see 16 more of this 😂



At this point I'm both sad and laughing , last time I checked Air Force didn't translate into trainer aircraft Airshows and cargo aircraft fly by's


Nike said:


> Why not taking prudent action, my MoD right now negotiate directly for second hand Typhoon even with country we barely known like Austria. There is more you can get with close relationship between UK and Bangladesh, why not taking the initiative? Just like when Bd get the C130J



There's a major difference between couple of C-130Js and a dam set of Multi-role 4++ gen death machine


mb444 said:


> I know.....its such a shame.....BAF rank and file along with the nation is being made a fool by BAF management..... The trainers are not bad at all, will provide rudementary ground attack capacity....... but at this stage not what we need.....
> 
> BAF is more interested in aerobatics then any real fighting capacity...



Honestly I'm done with the BAF , government gave them the money and they took that money and did nothing with it. 

Unless I'm blind and apparently a K-8 sexually identifies as an Euro Fighter

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## BlackViking

mb444 said:


> I know.....its such a shame.....BAF rank and file along with the nation is being made a fool by BAF management..... The trainers are not bad at all, will provide rudementary ground attack capacity....... but at this stage not what we need.....
> 
> BAF is more interested in aerobatics then any real fighting capacity...


There are severe complaints against k8 bhai..specially hydraulics system.


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> There are severe complaints against k8 bhai..specially hydraulics system.


Is it fbw or hydraulic control ?


SpaceMan18 said:


> Honestly I'm done with the BAF , government gave them the money and they took that money and did nothing with it.
> 
> Unless I'm blind and apparently a K-8 sexually identifies as an Euro Fighter


Govt passes the budget but money isn’t handed out like you said, money doesn’t exist until BAF decides to spend it. @DalalErMaNodi can explain better


alphapak said:


> I hope the BAF have a big budget, they need 1 billion usd to buy 4 eurofighters.
> Qatar deal was 6.5 billion usd for 24.


They rob the Arabs as always. 270 million a piece when they offered india for 162 a piece


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Hold on bhai...we are gonna see 16 more of this 😂



BAF should offer to takeover training UMAF and IAF rookies as well so that those forces can focus fully on fighter jets.


Nike said:


> Why not taking prudent action, my MoD right now negotiate directly for second hand Typhoon even with country we barely known like Austria. There is more you can get with close relationship between UK and Bangladesh, why not taking the initiative? Just like when Bd get the C130J


BAF does not have time thanks to international commercial commitments.

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Is it fbw or hydraulic control ?
> 
> Govt passes the budget but money isn’t handed out like you said, money doesn’t exist until BAF decides to spend it. @DalalErMaNodi can explain better
> 
> They rob the Arabs as always. 270 million a piece when they offered india for 162 a piece



True , either way I'm hoping we buy something


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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Is it fbw or hydraulic control ?


Hydraulic control most probably


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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Hydraulic control most probably


dude make claims when you're certain


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> dude make claims when you're certain




Did you just assume their gender ?

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Did you just assume their gender ?



Ugh I'm offended, as I sexually identify as BAF


----------



## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> They rob the Arabs as always. 270 million a piece when they offered india for 162 a piece



It depends on what tranche you guys want and what specification. I know 1 thing that it is very
expensive,BAF better have deep pockets.


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## BlackViking

alphapak said:


> It depends on what tranche you guys want and what specification. I know 1 thing that it is very
> expensive,BAF better have deep pockets.


As Leonardo aka Italy is working as the prime contractor organization with baf they offered a discounted price for eft coupled with frigates for the navy. And if baf decides to buy eft the package they will choose will have a limited number of weapons to reduce the cost. Rather they will focus on maintenance.
Same for attack helicopter procurement if baf decides to go for Apache.

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> As Leonardo aka Italy is working as the prime contractor organization with baf they offered a discounted price for eft coupled with frigates for the navy. And if baf decides to buy eft the package they will choose will have a limited number of weapons to reduce the cost. Rather they will focus on maintenance.
> Same for attack helicopter procurement if baf decides to go for Apache.



Good news mate , but again idek what the heck BAF is even doing and honestly Italian frigates are pretty good.

Idk when will we start making these frigates


----------



## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> It depends on what tranche you guys want and what specification. I know 1 thing that it is very
> expensive,BAF better have deep pockets.


we're talking about tranche 3 
and yes


----------



## The Ronin

BlackViking said:


> As Leonardo aka Italy is working as the prime contractor organization with baf they offered a* discounted price for eft coupled with frigates for the navy. And if baf decides to buy eft the package they will choose will have a limited number of weapons to reduce the cost. Rather they will focus on maintenance.
> Same for attack helicopter procurement if baf decides to go for Apache.*



Where do you get these stuff from?! Who's the source? Is Italy-BD relation some kinda "Sala-Dulavai" type? No one gives discount in defense deal, specially if the stuff is brand new. A basic weapon package is included in the deal. Even if you don't buy it now you will do it later anyway which makes cost same. @Destranator @Avicenna @Arthur doesn't it sound like complete BS to you?

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> Where do you get these stuff from?! Who's the source? Is Italy-BD relation some kinda "Sala-Dulavai" type? No one gives discount in defense deal, specially if the stuff is brand new. A basic weapon package is included in the deal. Even if you don't buy it now you will do it later anyway which makes cost same. @Destranator @Avicenna @Arthur doesn't it sound like complete BS to you?




Sala and Dulavai are supposed to be on good terms ? o_0 ?


----------



## The Ronin

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Sala and Dulavai are supposed to be on good terms ? o_0 ?



You always fight with your brother-in-laws?

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> You always fight with your brother-in-laws?

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> Where do you get these stuff from?! Who's the source? Is Italy-BD relation some kinda "Sala-Dulavai" type? No one gives discount in defense deal, specially if the stuff is brand new. A basic weapon package is included in the deal. Even if you don't buy it now you will do it later anyway which makes cost same. @Destranator @Avicenna @Arthur doesn't it sound like complete BS to you?



Tar source tarey bhainga koitey kon ..source keda?



The Ronin said:


> You always fight with your brother-in-laws?



You can fight with hala but not halar hala. That relationship is very chweet...


----------



## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 680053



This is indeed a Bengali moment


----------



## Gomig-21

Just saw this. Hope it's not a repost. Two Bangladesh Air Force F-7BG Defenders from 5th Squadron, BAF Base Bangabandhu, escort a U.S. C-130H Hercules from the 374th Airlift Wing at Yokota Air Base, Japan, during Exercise COPE SOUTH near Kishoreganj, Bangladesh.

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## The Ronin



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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


>



It's almost like they're forgetting to mention MRCA


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## The Ronin

SpaceMan18 said:


> It's almost like they're forgetting to mention MRCA



বুক ফাটে মাগার মুখ ফোটে না। The most annoying part is that these guys keep mentioning 20 years old Mig-29 purchase as if it's some kinda invincible 6th generation fighter jet our adversaries are sacred of. Now C-130J is added to that speech. 🙄



Gomig-21 said:


> Hope it's not a repost.



It is. Really old.

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## BlackViking

The Ronin said:


> Where do you get these stuff from?! Who's the source? Is Italy-BD relation some kinda "Sala-Dulavai" type? No one gives discount in defense deal, specially if the stuff is brand new. A basic weapon package is included in the deal. Even if you don't buy it now you will do it later anyway which makes cost same. @Destranator @Avicenna @Arthur doesn't it sound like complete BS to you?


Sorry..my bad...I dont have a single source...it was bs...no comment from my side until we see something new in our sky...let's hope for the best ✌


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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Sorry..my bad...I dont have a single source...it was bs...no comment from my side until we see something new in our sky...let's hope for the best ✌



I hope we get something next year , at this point I'm desperate to see a new fighter


----------



## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> বুক ফাটে মাগার মুখ ফোটে না। The most annoying part is that these guys keep mentioning 20 years old Mig-29 purchase as if it's some kinda invincible 6th generation fighter jet our adversaries are sacred of. Now C-130J is added to that speech. 🙄
> 
> 
> 
> It is. Really old.


@DalalErMaNodi told you about this one. Didn’t have the video


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> @DalalErMaNodi told you about this one. Didn’t have the video





What about the one you sent me ? Not the same ?




I haven't watched either one, I'm in a good mood, won't let some fat **** ruin it for me.



How's my new headgear btw, got this one on discount.


----------



## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> What about the one you sent me ? Not the same ?
> I haven't watched either one, I'm in a good mood, won't let some fat **** ruin it for me.
> How's my new headgear btw, got this one on discount.



Same. Watch it. He speaks frankly on failures and dire need. 
good pagdi, getting married?


----------



## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> বুক ফাটে মাগার মুখ ফোটে না। The most annoying part is that these guys keep mentioning 20 years old Mig-29 purchase as if it's some kinda invincible 6th generation fighter jet our adversaries are sacred of. Now C-130J is added to that speech. 🙄



5:20 onwards was quite frank actually. He admitted our deficiencies and lamented that the last procurement of worthy fighters was more than 20 years ago.

One can only hope that the lament translates into procurement of a few dozen fighters.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> 5:20 onwards was quite frank actually. He admitted our deficiencies and lamented that the last procurement of worthy fighters was more than 20 years ago.
> 
> One can only hope that the lament translates into procurement of a few dozen fighters.



Finally he admitted that we are in a dire need of new fighter jets , hoping we do actually buy something. 

We can't defend our skies with 8 old migs and F-7s , our neighbors have upgraded so should we

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## The Ronin

Destranator said:


> 5:20 onwards was quite frank actually. He admitted our deficiencies and lamented that the last procurement of worthy fighters was more than 20 years ago.
> 
> One can only hope that the lament translates into procurement of a few dozen fighters.





Michael Corleone said:


> He speaks frankly on failures and dire need.



One thing is clear, it not completely BAF's leadership's fault like @Destranator @mb444 say. If
Hasina doesn't want people to make sound while getting pinched she should make some defense projects like MRCA, SAM top priority. Otherwise we can't really stop monkeys violating our airspace thousands times.

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> One thing is clear, it not completely BAF's leadership's fault like @Destranator @mb444 say. If
> Hasina doesn't want people to make sound while getting pinched she should make some defense projects like MRCA, SAM top priority. Otherwise we can't really stop monkeys violating our airspace thousands times.



What do you think is the problem?

Why the delays?


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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> What do you think is the problem?
> 
> Why the delays?



Budget constraints.


They get a unified budget (the armed forces) and somebody else besides the AF has been on a buying spree but then again it's just my opinion (or what I've gathered from others who know), could be something else.

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Budget constraints.
> 
> 
> They get a unified budget (the armed forces) and somebody else besides the AF has been on a buying spree but then again it's just my opinion (or what I've gathered from others who know), could be something else.



Air power is crucial.

What's the BN gonna do with all their nice ships when Myanmar sends its JF-17 and Flankers with its anti-ship missiles?

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> 5:20 onwards was quite frank actually. He admitted our deficiencies and lamented that the last procurement of worthy fighters was more than 20 years ago.
> 
> One can only hope that the lament translates into procurement of a few dozen fighters.




Atlast some progress...... that BAF is the reason for the rohingya debacle is good to hear..... that BAF has no teeth is good to hear.


Until they recognise the problem there can not be any solution..... hopefully we have reached the nadir and from this point on they will start to address the issues and get better.


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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> Air power is crucial.
> 
> What's the BN gonna do with all their nice ships when Myanmar sends its JF-17 and Flankers with its anti-ship missiles?



We're gonna take our Bengali moms and tell them to throw sandals at the monkeys


DalalErMaNodi said:


> Budget constraints.
> 
> 
> They get a unified budget (the armed forces) and somebody else besides the AF has been on a buying spree but then again it's just my opinion (or what I've gathered from others who know), could be something else.



Well that sucks , BAF is the only branch that doesn't have much of a fighting chance


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## The Ronin

Ex ZH883 destined for BAF towed back to H17 area today. She retains her special tail but has a few new panels and more bits removed.

©Alexey Trailspotter

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> One thing is clear, it not completely BAF's leadership's fault like @Destranator @mb444 say. If
> Hasina doesn't want people to make sound while getting pinched she should make some defense projects like MRCA, SAM top priority. Otherwise we can't really stop monkeys violating our airspace thousands times.


He could be this frank only because he’s related to Hasina, anyone else would have lost his job already. But he’s right, when your leader expects you to keep quite when provoked and not prepare good deterrence, there’s no way they can do anything to protect the country from pickles like rohynga crisis

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> He could be this frank only because he’s related to Hasina, anyone else would have lost his job already. But he’s right, when your leader expects you to keep quite when provoked and not prepare good deterrence, there’s no way they can do anything to protect the country from pickles like rohynga crisis



I like this guy.

He was honest.

InshAllah, his concerns will be addressed soon.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> @DalalErMaNodi told you about this one. Didn’t have the video






Well, one thing's for sure, he's not the incompetent imbecile that I perceived him to be. 



That's a positive, a small one but good to know nonetheless.

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Well, one thing's for sure, he's not the incompetent imbecile that I perceived him to be.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a positive, a small one but good to know nonetheless.



So does this mean he can fully convince others to actually buy the fighter jets ?


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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> So does this mean he can fully convince others to actually buy the fighter jets ?




I don't know, I don't think it's that simple.


It's about threat assesment, it all depends on how the civilian government perceives the threat posed by Myanmar and India, every moment that we remain weak and poorly equipped.



They are the ones that call the shots at the end of the day. Now, having said that, AFAIK the purchase of 16 MRCA has already been greenlighted by the government.



So, I'm not exactly sure what's the hold up, it's more complex then we think it is...

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I like this guy.
> 
> He was honest.
> 
> InshAllah, his concerns will be addressed soon.


For sure inshallah
The guy who’s supposed to be chief after him is also cool
I remember dissing esrar but apparently he did a lot for the force.


DalalErMaNodi said:


> Well, one thing's for sure, he's not the incompetent imbecile that I perceived him to be.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a positive, a small one but good to know nonetheless.


Here’s to hoping under his terms and the next guy, Air Force will become stronger. They’re really trying to expand pool of well trained pilots and acquire at the same time

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## Avicenna

What's with the DEFSECA article about BAF upgrading AAM for F-7?









Bangladesh Air Force opts to upgrade its AAMs for F-7 fleet


Restricted Content This is a Premium content. Please purchase to view full content. Premium Article $10.00 Add to basket Purchases can be made with Credit




www.defseca.com





As far as I know BAF has PL-5, PL-7 and PL-9.

PL-10? or are they referring to the relatively new PL-9?

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> View attachment 680948
> 
> 
> What's with the DEFSECA article about BAF upgrading AAM for F-7?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force opts to upgrade its AAMs for F-7 fleet
> 
> 
> Restricted Content This is a Premium content. Please purchase to view full content. Premium Article $10.00 Add to basket Purchases can be made with Credit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know BAF has PL-5, PL-7 and PL-9.
> 
> PL-10? or are they referring to the relatively new PL-9?



Don't know maybe PL-9 , but dam we still operating F-7s and upgrading them ?


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## UKBengali

Guys, we need to start reading between the lines here and that is that the AL regime sees little need to turn BD into a decent military power.

Blaming BAF incompetence may soothe some but fundamentally it's leadership is put in place by the government. Hasina may not be a military expert but even she is aware that BD airspace is almost completely undefended and would have done something about it by now if she was so inclined.

With BN it is nearly 2021 and they still have not selected a partner to design the next-gen frigates. The delay in completing the shipyard does not explain not at least having a partner by now and the plan was announced 3 years ago in 2017.

Under this AL government BD seems likely to stay a weak nation that can even be bullied by Myanmar with it's superior airforce. Even a new government could take 5-10 years to reach Myanmar capability, let alone be able to have any kind of deterrence against India.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Guys, we need to start reading between the lines here and that is that the AL regime sees little need to turn BD into a decent military power.
> 
> Blaming BAF incompetence may soothe some but fundamentally it's leadership is put in place by the government. Hasina may not be a military expert but even she is aware that BD airspace is almost completely undefended and would have done something about it by now if she was so inclined.
> 
> With BN it is nearly 2021 and they still have not selected a partner to design the next-gen frigates. The delay in completing the shipyard does not explain not at least having a partner by now and the plan was announced 3 years ago in 2017.
> 
> Under this AL government BD seems likely to stay a weak nation that can even be bullied by Myanmar with it's superior airforce. Even a new government could take 5-10 years to reach Myanmar capability, let alone be able to have any kind of deterrence against India.


Even @UKBengali is giving up on BAF modernisation.
BAF has hit rock bottom. Curious to see whether they can stoop any lower.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Guys, we need to start reading between the lines here and that is that the AL regime sees little need to turn BD into a decent military power.
> 
> Blaming BAF incompetence may soothe some but fundamentally it's leadership is put in place by the government. Hasina may not be a military expert but even she is aware that BD airspace is almost completely undefended and would have done something about it by now if she was so inclined.
> 
> With BN it is nearly 2021 and they still have not selected a partner to design the next-gen frigates. The delay in completing the shipyard does not explain not at least having a partner by now and the plan was announced 3 years ago in 2017.
> 
> Under this AL government BD seems likely to stay a weak nation that can even be bullied by Myanmar with it's superior airforce. Even a new government could take 5-10 years to reach Myanmar capability, let alone be able to have any kind of deterrence against India.




You gotta be fu*king kidding me ? We still don't have a partner in our next gen frigates huh ? 

And yeah , 6 modern frigates in 2030 isn't much since every other dam nation will have like 12 lol. 

Honestly idek , I have a little hope but if Bangladesh doesn't announce new fighter procurement by next year then I'm done. 

We can't be this weak , we aren't pu*sies


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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> What's with the DEFSECA article about BAF upgrading AAM for F-7?
> 
> As far as I know BAF has PL-5, PL-7 and PL-9.
> 
> PL-10? or are they referring to the relatively new PL-9?


More like updated version of the existing ones. I don't believe F 7's are capable in any form to carry& guide the 2 missiles you mentioned.

Also all the news of EFT etc are crap. The damage that's been done to BAF in last 2 decade is immense. It will be tough to re organise

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## SpaceMan18

Arthur said:


> More like updated version of the existing ones. I don't believe F 7's are capable in any form to carry& guide the 2 missiles you mentioned.
> 
> Also all the news of EFT etc are crap. The damage that's been done to BAF in last 2 decade is immense. It will be tough to re organise



Everyone in the world is modernizing their Air Force , Philippines, Myanmar heck even Nigeria has good fighters. 

But us Bangaldeshis aren't , it's too fücking embrassing. 

How the heck can others do it and not us ?


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Guys, we need to start reading between the lines here and that is that the AL regime sees little need to turn BD into a decent military power.
> 
> Blaming BAF incompetence may soothe some but fundamentally it's leadership is put in place by the government. Hasina may not be a military expert but even she is aware that BD airspace is almost completely undefended and would have done something about it by now if she was so inclined.
> 
> With BN it is nearly 2021 and they still have not selected a partner to design the next-gen frigates. The delay in completing the shipyard does not explain not at least having a partner by now and the plan was announced 3 years ago in 2017.
> 
> Under this AL government BD seems likely to stay a weak nation that can even be bullied by Myanmar with it's superior airforce. Even a new government could take 5-10 years to reach Myanmar capability, let alone be able to have any kind of deterrence against India.




It is natural to feel deflated but we must keep hope. 

BN from 10 years ago is a radically different force who have achieved quantum leap in capability.

BA has also seen improvements maybe not as vast as BN but they have introduced Sams, increased artillery and have upgraded infantry assets as well as numbers.

Coast guard has seen doubling of assets.

BGB also has seen improvements.


It is BAF that is lagging behind. One deal will change the scenario. Just 16 4th generation jets will give us upper hand vis a vis the savages.

BAF is responsible for its fate. Having seen them publicly recognising their failure gives me hope.

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## DalalErMaNodi

mb444 said:


> It is natural to feel deflated but we must keep hope.
> 
> BN from 10 years ago is a radically different force who have achieved quantum leap in capability.
> 
> BA has also seen improvements maybe not as vast as BN but they have introduced Sams, increased artillery and have upgraded infantry assets as well as numbers.
> 
> Coast guard has seen doubling of assets.
> 
> BGB also has seen improvements.
> 
> 
> It is BAF that is lagging behind. One deal will change the scenario. Just 16 4th generation jets will give us upper hand vis a vis the savages.
> 
> BAF is responsible for its fate. Having seen them publicly recognising their failure gives me hope.




Patience is key.

BAF acquiring mrca jets won't have a positive or negative impact on any of our lives.


Hell, most of the people on here are of Bangladeshi descent not citizenship, so whether BAF has jets hardly affects anyone. 




I understand it's a matter of pride perhaps but we must look at this from a broader perspective, Jets or lack there of, aren't the end of the world. 



Bangladesh is moving in the right direction and if they can't afford a few jets right now, then that's a chance we'll have to take. 




Remember, 160 million lives won't get improved by a few jets, but money sent on their welfare will, perhaps the government has other priorities. 





Besides, something is coming, I can sense it, let's just be patient, the air chief isn't a moron, he'll get it done before he finishes his tenure. 


Patience brothers, Patience.

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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Patience is key.
> 
> BAF acquiring mrca jets won't have a positive or negative impact on any of our lives.
> 
> 
> Hell, most of the people on here are of Bangladeshi descent not citizenship, so whether BAF has jets hardly affects anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand it's a matter of pride perhaps but we must look at this from a broader perspective, Jets or lack there of, aren't the end of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is moving in the right direction and if they can't afford a few jets right now, then that's a chance we'll have to take.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, 160 million lives won't get improved by a few jets, but money sent on their welfare will, perhaps the government has other priorities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, something is coming, I can sense it, let's just be patient, the air chief isn't a moron, he'll get it done before he finishes his tenure.
> 
> 
> Patience brothers, Patience.


murbii - when i will see that EU fighter in BD colors ?

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## DalalErMaNodi

Imran Khan said:


> murbii - when i will see that EU fighter in BD colors ?



2024, or later. 


Whatever they're getting, it's going to be brand new.


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## Imran Khan

DalalErMaNodi said:


> 2024, or later.
> 
> 
> Whatever they're getting, it's going to be brand new.


ameeen suma ameen

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## Avicenna

Arthur said:


> More like updated version of the existing ones. I don't believe F 7's are capable in any form to carry& guide the 2 missiles you mentioned.
> 
> Also all the news of EFT etc are crap. The damage that's been done to BAF in last 2 decade is immense. It will be tough to re organise



I'm curious what you think of Serniabat's speech? (From Oct 2019)






IMO, it was fairly straight forward and honest.

Notably, the example of Singapore vs Sri Lanka. i.e. Awareness of other small nations having a strong air arm.

A different outcome if BAF was better equipped regarding 2017 Rohingya debacle. i.e. Myanmar wouldn't have tried it in the first place. i.e. deterrence.

And overall a rather honest assessment and public lament of the state of affairs of the BAF.

Thoughts?

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## mb444

Spain is about to put in for 20 EFT..... BD has lost its window of opportunity.... it will take atleast another 5 years for new jets unless additional production line is opened....that is a possibility..... but seriously if eft was to come to BD it would be 2nd hand.....


In all seriousness I think EFT dream is dead..... likely to be J10 or some more russian junk.. F16 unlikely as is Gripen in my opinion....

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Spain is about to put in for 20 EFT..... BD has lost its window of opportunity.... it will take atleast another 5 years for new jets unless additional production line is opened....that is a possibility..... but seriously if eft was to come to BD it would be 2nd hand.....
> 
> 
> In all seriousness I think EFT dream is dead..... likely to be J10 or some more russian junk.. F16 unlikely as is Gripen in my opinion....



Pathetic.

I understand priorities.

But just a few years ago Bangladesh got its a33 handed to them by Myanmar.

Kono loja shorom nai.


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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> 2024, or later.
> 
> 
> Whatever they're getting, it's going to be brand new.



What about new medium range SAMs ? Can't have new fighters without SAMs 

It's like having rice without Dal 

Also are we getting any AWACS ?


mb444 said:


> Spain is about to put in for 20 EFT..... BD has lost its window of opportunity.... it will take atleast another 5 years for new jets unless additional production line is opened....that is a possibility..... but seriously if eft was to come to BD it would be 2nd hand.....
> 
> 
> In all seriousness I think EFT dream is dead..... likely to be J10 or some more russian junk.. F16 unlikely as is Gripen in my opinion....




Well brand new is good, but second hand doesn't seem that bad.


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/756697488241289










__ https://www.facebook.com/109258817399218/posts/179898110335288








What do you think guys.....

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/757165768194461

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/756697488241289
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/109258817399218/posts/179898110335288
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think guys.....



Yes this is nice , eventually these guys can make larger drones with some help from Turkey. Heck they can start making satellites in the future and export it to other nations.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> It is natural to feel deflated but we must keep hope.
> 
> BN from 10 years ago is a radically different force who have achieved quantum leap in capability.
> 
> BA has also seen improvements maybe not as vast as BN but they have introduced Sams, increased artillery and have upgraded infantry assets as well as numbers.
> 
> Coast guard has seen doubling of assets.
> 
> BGB also has seen improvements.
> 
> 
> It is BAF that is lagging behind. One deal will change the scenario. Just 16 4th generation jets will give us upper hand vis a vis the savages.
> 
> BAF is responsible for its fate. Having seen them publicly recognising their failure gives me hope.




I wish it was just BAF but now BN is also not upgrading as it should be doing, although I admit that it is doing better than BAF.

Why after over 3 years has a partner not yet been selected to build the 6-next gen frigates? There is no good reason and it will take a good 18-24 months to agree on a design after a partner has been selected unless it is off the shelf and Western options would probably be out of BN's budget. Having the shipyard ready and no design to build from only adds more delays to an already very delayed programme.

The clue is in BN's preoccupation with buying 2nd hand frigate after 2nd hand frigate. You could just about digest the first two Type-053H3 but not the two brought last year. What is the point of the latest two frigates? They are useless against India and BN already has sufficient ships against MN. Yes some will keep coming back to numbers time after time but no navy that is serious about building 6 next-gen frigates very soon buys these many 2nd hand frigates in such a short space of time.

The simple truth is that BD is a militarily weak and cowed country simply due to the strategic decision of it's BAL leadership in power. No amount of competence and patriotism of the military will change this.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> I wish it was just BAF but now BN is also not upgrading as it should be doing, although I admit that it is doing better than BAF.
> 
> Why after over 3 years has a partner not yet been selected to build the 6-next gen frigates? There is no good reason and it will take a good 18-24 months to agree on a design after a partner has been selected unless it is off the shelf and Western options would probably be out of BN's budget. Having the shipyard ready and no design to build from only adds more delays to an already very delayed programme.
> 
> The clue is in BN's preoccupation with buying 2nd hand frigate after 2nd hand frigate. You could just about digest the first two Type-053H3 but not the two brought last year. What is the point of the latest two frigates? They are useless against India and BN already has sufficient ships against MN. Yes some will keep coming back to numbers time after time but no navy that is serious about building 6 next-gen frigates very soon buys these many 2nd hand frigates in such a short space of time.
> 
> The simple truth is that BD is a militarily weak and cowed country simply due to the strategic decision of it's BAL leadership in power. No amount of competence and patriotism of the military will change this.




I like how we're a maritime based country and our navy isn't that capable , idk why it's taking so long to get a partner I don't think it's Covid - 19 it's just pure leadership. 

Why 6 frigates , is Bangladesh acting like the other frigates are modern ? And our cruise missile range sucks too sadly. 250km I think is max and its from one ship and that ship is our best ship aka Ulsan Class Frigate. 

Our dam Corvettes aren't even ASW capable , and where the heck is our ASW helicopters ? 

All these dam ships are equipped with FM-90 short *** systems , that ain't nothing. 


I remember when they showed the Type 53h3s on the news the dam navy acted like theses were Arleigh Bruke class destroyers

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Pathetic.
> 
> I understand priorities.
> 
> But just a few years ago Bangladesh got its a33 handed to them by Myanmar.
> 
> Kono loja shorom nai.


Loja ase, shorom nai 


DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/757165768194461


Wtf

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Spain is about to put in for 20 EFT..... BD has lost its window of opportunity.... it will take atleast another 5 years for new jets unless additional production line is opened....that is a possibility..... but seriously if eft was to come to BD it would be 2nd hand.....
> 
> 
> In all seriousness I think EFT dream is dead..... likely to be J10 or some more russian junk.. F16 unlikely as is Gripen in my opinion....


Nice.


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Nice.


----------



## mb444

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/756697488241289
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/109258817399218/posts/179898110335288
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think guys.....



Good stuff.... GOB needs to support them. Use these for continious surveillance of borders, EEZ, rivers etc. Most efficient and cheapest methodology and as it is home grown we save on hard currency.

We need to support them to get a few mini Satellites up and suddenly BD has completely indeginious UAV fleet.

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## SpaceMan18

Hmm I just wondered when the world by 2027-2030 will move onto 5th generation fighter aircraft what will Bangaldesh do then ? 

Like we will become a middle income nation by then and our economy can support 5th generation aircraft. 

But as usual we're always 2 gens behind , but by then Bangladesh will hopefully have a solid aeronautical industry. 

Idk why we aren't building helicopters ? There is a demand for them in Bangladesh though


mb444 said:


> Good stuff.... GOB needs to support them. Use these for continious surveillance of borders, EEZ, rivers etc. Most efficient and cheapest methodology and as it is home grown we save on hard currency.
> 
> We need to support them to get a few mini Satellites up and suddenly BD has completely indeginious UAV fleet.



True , but we will start building larger or medium sats in 2 years so small sats won't be that needed.


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hmm I just wondered when the world by 2027-2030 will move onto 5th generation fighter aircraft what will Bangaldesh do then ?
> 
> Like we will become a middle income nation by then and our economy can support 5th generation aircraft.
> 
> But as usual we're always 2 gens behind , but by then Bangladesh will hopefully have a solid aeronautical industry.



Why has BAF not already upgraded it's current 8 Mig-29s with new radars and the R-77 active-radar guided AAM?

If there was any intent on fulfilling it's primary mission then this would have been done years ago. It costs little and well within the funds BAF has.

All it seems interested in spending it's money on is trainers and transport planes.



As for world moving into 5th gen, yes if BAF does order anything in the next 1-2 years from the West then expect it to expend the allocated treasure on maybe 16 Eurofighters that would have no hope in hell on standing up to the Chinese J-35 fighter that Myanmar could be fielding towards the end of this decade/early 2030s.
Far better and cheaper for BAF to negotiate with USA and get hold of cheap F-16Cs that are being retired that still have a good 10-15 years of service life left.
USA may even upgrade with the brilliant APG-83 AESA radar and supply the AIM-120D missile in limited numbers. If you don't ask, you do not get.

BAF is an incompetent and corrupt organisation that has no strategic vision apart from playing with lots of trainers and transport aircraft.

Lastly, BAF will be the only Airforce on this planet with more trainers than fighter planes after the latest batch of K8 arrives. Most airforces it is 2-3:1 ratio between warplanes:trainers.
Yes BAF will finally be no. 1 in something in the world.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Why has BAF not already upgraded it's current 8 Mig-29s with new radars and the R-77 active-radar guided AAM?
> 
> If there was any intent on fulfilling it's primary mission then this would have been done years ago. It costs little and well within the funds BAF has.
> 
> All it seems interested in spending it's money on is trainers and transport planes.
> 
> 
> 
> As for world moving into 5th gen, yes if BAF does order anything in the next 1-2 years from the West then expect it to expend the allocated treasure on maybe 16 Eurofighters that would have no hope in hell on standing up to the Chinese J-35 fighter that Myanmar could be fielding towards the end of this decade/early 2030s.
> Far better and cheaper for BAF to negotiate with USA and get hold of cheap F-16Cs that are being retired that still have a good 10-15 years of service life left.
> USA may even upgrade with the brilliant APG-83 AESA radar and supply the AIM-120D missile in limited numbers. If you don't ask, you do not get.
> 
> BAF is an incompetent and corrupt organisation that has no strategic vision apart from playing with lots of trainers and transport aircraft.
> 
> Lastly, BAF will be the only Airforce on this planet with more trainers than fighter planes after the latest batch of K8 arrives. Most airforces it is 2-3:1 ratio between warplanes:trainers.
> Yes BAF will finally be no. 1 in something in the world.



Ok I disagree with Myanmar at fielding J-31s cause their economy can't support that many stealth fighters or even if they can they would go broke. 

And with American F-16s , nah we don't trust America as much cause they can sanction us easily 

And yeah BAF is done honestly, Air Force Chief did mention we need new fighters so there's a bit of hope. 

We are upgrading the Migs currently soo


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ok I disagree with Myanmar at fielding J-31s cause their economy can't support that many stealth fighters or even if they can they would go broke.
> 
> And with American F-16s , nah we don't trust America as much cause they can sanction us easily
> 
> And yeah BAF is done honestly, Air Force Chief did mention we need new fighters so there's a bit of hope.
> 
> We are upgrading the Migs currently soo



12-16 they can afford. That is all they need to take care of BD. 5th gen fighters have kill ratios at least 10:1 even against latest 4th gen ones and the Chinese are getting closer to Western tech all the time.
J-31s won't cost as much as Western 5th gen types like F-35 anyway.

As for USA, why would they sanction as these F-16s are for Myanmar and not India?
Yes BD will have to give something to USA as nothing comes for free.
These refurbished F-16s are only for 10-15 years to tie BAF over till actual realistic 5th gen options(Turkey?) become available.

Any new build 4th gen fighter orders now are a waste of time. Not that BAF/BD seem likely to order anything in the immediate future.


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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> 12-16 they can afford. That is all they need to take care of BD. 5th gen fighters have kill ratios at least 10:1 even against latest 4th gen ones and the Chinese are getting closer to Western tech all the time.
> J-31s won't cost as much as Western 5th gen types like F-35 anyway.
> 
> As for USA, why would they sanction as these F-16s are for Myanmar and not India?
> Yes BD will have to give something to USA as nothing comes for free.
> These refurbished F-16s are only for 10-15 years to tie BAF over till actual realistic 5th gen options(Turkey?) become available.
> 
> Any new build 4th gen fighter orders now are a waste of time. Not that BAF/BD seem likely to order anything in the immediate future.



You know we can just get 2nd hand Typhoons instead ? And you know India is gonna get insecure if we buy F-16s , and try to negotiate with America to not support us. 

America will try to control us through these F-16s , that's how American diplomacy works. 

Plus Myanmar will cease to exist in the future cause they are already a broken country ready to explode.


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> You know we can just get 2nd hand Typhoons instead ? And you know India is gonna get insecure if we buy F-16s , and try to negotiate with America to not support us.
> 
> America will try to control us through these F-16s , that's how American diplomacy works.
> 
> Plus Myanmar will cease to exist in the future cause they are already a broken country ready to explode.



Are 2nd hand Typhoons even available apart from Austria?
We can talk about that once they are for sale again as it looks like BAF has shown zero interest in the Austrian ones currently on sale.
If available they would be better than F-16s, although more expensive choice.

As for India, they will only care if BD gets AESA radar and AIM-120D as the F-16 Block 50/52+ is no match for their Rafales with AESA + Meteor missile. Yes USA may not sell that package but we have no way of knowing unless BD actually asks them.
Like I already said F-16 is NOT for India but Myanmar. China will supply fighters to take on India but since BAF cannot even equip itself for Myanmar that is in the distance for now.

Refurbished F-16s like I say will only be for 10-15 years while BD gets richer and has real options on buying sanction free 5th gen fighters like say from Turkey.

Any country that BD deals with will try to "control" BD in one way or another. New build 4th gen fighters will make BD dependent on the supplier nation for 30 years from 2025 at the earliest now onwards.
Trick with USA is not to rely on them too much. BD can balance between USA and China by buying the correct system from each country.

Myanmar breaking up is a pipe dream for now. They have sold themselves to the Chinese and China will keep them intact as long as they stay in line. China gains nothing from a multitude of states rising from the ashes of Myanmar.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Are 2nd hand Typhoons even available apart from Austria?
> We can talk about that once they are for sale again as it looks like BAF has shown zero interest in the Austrian ones currently on sale.
> If available they would be better than F-16s, although more expensive choice.
> 
> As for India, they will only care if BD gets AESA radar and AIM-120D as the F-16 Block 50/52+ is no match for their Rafales with AESA + Meteor missile. Yes USA may not sell that package but we have no way of knowing unless BD actually asks them.
> Like I already said F-16 is NOT for India but Myanmar. China will supply fighters to take on India but since BAF cannot even equip itself for Myanmar that is in the distance for now.
> 
> Refurbished F-16s like I say will only be for 10-15 years while BD gets richer and has real options on buying sanction free 5th gen fighters like say from Turkey.
> 
> Any country that BD deals with will try to "control" BD in one way or another. New build 4th gen fighters will make BD dependent on the supplier nation for 30 years from 2025 at the earliest now onwards.
> Trick with USA is not to rely on them too much. BD can balance between USA and China by buying the correct system from each country.
> 
> Myanmar breaking up is a pipe dream for now. They have sold themselves to the Chinese and China will keep them intact as long as they stay in line. China gains nothing from a multitude of states rising from the ashes of Myanmar.



I thought Indonesia is buying the austrian efts.... these are first generation jets.... need to be upgraded...if they fall out BAF should jump at the chance as long as it comes with meteor.

But it is BAF.....


----------



## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> I thought Indonesia is buying the austrian efts.... these are first generation jets.... need to be upgraded...if they fall out BAF should jump at the chance as long as it comes with meteor.
> 
> But it is BAF.....




Pointless as they are Tranche 1 and cannot be upgraded to AESA radar to fire Meteor.

BD would need permission from USA for AMRAAM and so may as well get the cheaper to buy and operate F-16 in that case.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Pointless as they are Tranche 1 and cannot be upgraded to AESA radar to fire Meteor.
> 
> BD would need permission from USA for AMRAAM and so may as well get the cheaper to buy and operate F-16 in that case.



So as time goes on our 4++ gen fighter options are getting quite slim , BAF did acknowledge that we don't have these jets recently so it means they haven't bought anything yet.

Idk what's the hold up , time is running out and we aren't doing anything

almost ever dam nation has 4++ gen fighters or is getting one soon so its Fk embarassing to see us without one.

This should be the wakeup call to BAF

And don't even get me started on our next gen frigate program 

They say we will have a strong navy by 2030

And I'm like 6 frigates isn't a strong navy it's still weak for 2030


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> So as time goes on our 4++ gen fighter options are getting quite slim , BAF did acknowledge that we don't have these jets recently so it means they haven't bought anything yet.
> 
> Idk what's the hold up , time is running out and we aren't doing anything
> 
> almost ever dam nation has 4++ gen fighters or is getting one soon so its Fk embarassing to see us without one.
> 
> This should be the wakeup call to BAF
> 
> And don't even get me started on our next gen frigate program
> 
> They say we will have a strong navy by 2030
> 
> And I'm like 6 frigates isn't a strong navy it's still weak for 2030






"Forces Goal 2030" with the plan for 10 squadrons(160) fighter planes by 2030 was a realistic and achievable plan as per BD's resources.

It would have made BD far more powerful than Myanmar and able to provide some kind of deterrent to Indian constant bullying.

It is nearly 2021 and there is not even an order for modern jets and which AWACs is coming to control these fighters? Where are the MRSAMs to protect the airbases and other strategic targets like ports and power stations?

Right now BD is a country that is acting like it is in the middle of Europe rather than next to 2 rather nasty countries in the form of India and Myanmar.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> "Forces Goal 2030" with the plan for 10 squadrons(160) fighter planes by 2030 was a realistic and achievable plan as per BD's resources.
> 
> It would have made BD far more powerful than Myanmar and able to provide some kind of deterrent to Indian constant bullying.
> 
> It is nearly 2021 and there is not even an order for modern jets and which AWACs is coming to control these fighters? Where are the MRSAMs to protect the airbases and other strategic targets like ports and power stations?
> 
> Right now BD is a country that is acting like it is in the middle of Europe rather than next to 2 rather nasty countries in the form of India and Myanmar.



Sighs*

I remember being so hyped for Su30s back in 2017 and then my hopes started to fall about the BAF on being a Damm Air Force

160 fighters by 2030 is realistic but again we're talking about corruption and Bangladesh being a country known for delaying things.

And honestly our ports are in danger cause Myanmar can easily target it , I expected Turkish Hisar O at least but I don't see any news about it.


There's also certain Bangaldeshis that keep screaming " Su30s " like a fk child not knowing that U.S will sanction us if we buy it.

and wait are we actually buying AWACS ?

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Sighs*
> 
> I remember being so hyped for Su30s back in 2017 and then my hopes started to fall about the BAF on being a Damm Air Force
> 
> 160 fighters by 2030 is realistic but again we're talking about corruption and Bangladesh being a country known for delaying things.
> 
> And honestly our ports are in danger cause Myanmar can easily target it , I expected Turkish Hisar O at least but I don't see any news about it.
> 
> 
> There's also certain Bangaldeshis that keep screaming " Su30s " like a fk child not knowing that U.S will sanction us if we buy it.
> 
> and wait are we actually buying AWACS ?





Russia now, maybe China down the line as the rivalry between USA and China heats up as time passes.

BD needs to plan for this eventuality as it may be forced to choose and currently there is no choice. It will have to become a US client state and do it's bidding as regards China.

Does BD have any strategic thinkers at all in the leadership? Maybe, maybe not.


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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Russia now, maybe China down the line as the rivalry between USA and China heats up as time passes.
> 
> BD needs to plan for this eventuality as it may be forced to choose and currently there is no choice. It will have to become a US client state and do it's bidding as regards China.
> 
> Does BD have any strategic thinkers at all in the leadership? Maybe, maybe not.




Pssh do you think these dam low IQ theives can play with the Chinese and Americans ? 

All they care about is how much money can they milk out of Bangladesh , Momen the fat fück isnt much of a critical thinker 

BD will try to stay neutral and it depends , we export to the west but our economy relies mostly on China especially mega projects 

Also Bangaldesh isn't a investor friendly country


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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> Pssh do you think these dam low IQ theives can play with the Chinese and Americans ?
> 
> All they care about is how much money can they milk out of Bangladesh , Momen the fat fück isnt much of a critical thinker
> 
> BD will try to stay neutral and it depends , we export to the west but our economy relies mostly on China especially mega projects
> 
> Also Bangaldesh isn't a investor friendly country





A new generation of leaders are coming, you forget most politicians in positions of power in BD are in their 70s now, what 10 more years then they're gone.



Just hope, the new one are better and more aware of the reality that surrounds us all.

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> A new generation of leaders are coming, you forget most politicians in positions of power in BD are in their 70s now, what 10 more years then they're gone.
> 
> 
> 
> Just hope, the new one are better and more aware of the reality that surrounds us all.



True , heck even I have been thinking of running but I gotta get rich somehow plus I don't even know how to write or read Bengali 

Honestly we need someone like Singapores PM Lee, just someone who's honest and patrotic for Bangladesh and not for any other dam nation

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Pssh do you think these dam low IQ theives can play with the Chinese and Americans ?
> 
> All they care about is how much money can they milk out of Bangladesh , Momen the fat fück isnt much of a critical thinker
> 
> BD will try to stay neutral and it depends , we export to the west but our economy relies mostly on China especially mega projects
> 
> Also Bangaldesh isn't a investor friendly country




Actually China is pretty insignificant to BD economy, apart from imports from it.
Chinese Mega Projects are not as significant when you look at what comes from Japan and others combined. China is still in the minority here.

When it comes to 7 billion US dollar a year exports plus the billions of dollars of low-interest loans every year from World Bank, ADB and Japan that US has massive influence over, then you get an idea how influential US is.

Even Biman is pretty much totally reliant on Boeing now for it's new jets.

Like it or not, BD must at least not antagonise the US as it can do serious economic harm to BD if it chose to.

Anyway this is veering from off-topic of BAF and so we should only talk about that.

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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> Pssh do you think these dam low IQ theives can play with the Chinese and Americans ?
> 
> All they care about is how much money can they milk out of Bangladesh , Momen the fat fück isnt much of a critical thinker
> 
> BD will try to stay neutral and it depends , we export to the west but our economy relies mostly on China especially mega projects
> 
> Also Bangaldesh isn't a investor friendly country





Japan is more than ready to invest dollar for dollar when it comes to infrastructure projects matching Beijing. 




Japanese companies, finish the work on time too, there by saving money, Chinese projects are extended time and again raising costs and piling up interest.

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Japan is more than ready to invest dollar for dollar when it comes to infrastructure projects matching Beijing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese companies, finish the work on time too, there by saving money, Chinese projects are extended time and again raising costs and piling up interest.




Also due to Bangladesh not being a easy to invest in nation is hampering more investments from Japan 

Japan is also setting up our automotive industry company " Pragati " 

Hopefully we start to manufacture cars , buses and or trucks


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Pointless as they are Tranche 1 and cannot be upgraded to AESA radar to fire Meteor.
> 
> BD would need permission from USA for AMRAAM and so may as well get the cheaper to buy and operate F-16 in that case.




Have a read of this as this may not be the case.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-typhoon-jets-to-receive-aesa-radar-upgrade/

Here is a slightly alternative counter point.....

By remaining militarily weak we can ensure our strategic maneuverability when it comes to staying out of china vs US quagmire.

It has worked for european countries like germany who concentrated on economy and just relied on Nato i.e. US for defense.

It obviously does not work on our scenario and in our neighbourhood given the aggresive neighbours we have in the long term....but on the short to medium term....maybe...


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Pointless as they are Tranche 1 and cannot be upgraded to AESA radar to fire Meteor.
> 
> BD would need permission from USA for AMRAAM and so may as well get the cheaper to buy and operate F-16 in that case.


Tranche 1 can fire meteor with or without upgrades. It however is incapable to ground attack roles


SpaceMan18 said:


> True , heck even I have been thinking of running but I gotta get rich somehow plus I don't even know how to write or read Bengali
> 
> Honestly we need someone like Singapores PM Lee, just someone who's honest and patrotic for Bangladesh and not for any other dam nation


Simple, marry someone from sheikh family  you’re from Barisal, right beside faridpur... they won’t have beef with your people

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Have a read of this as this may not be the case.
> 
> https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-typhoon-jets-to-receive-aesa-radar-upgrade/
> 
> Here is a slightly alternative counter point.....
> 
> By remaining militarily weak we can ensure our strategic maneuverability when it comes to staying out of china vs US quagmire.
> 
> It has worked for european countries like germany who concentrated on economy and just relied on Nato i.e. US for defense.
> 
> It obviously does not work on our scenario and in our neighbourhood given the aggresive neighbours we have in the long term....but on the short to medium term....maybe...



UK will start with the 40 Tranche 3 aircraft with this vastly improved AESA radar and then may move onto the Tranche 2.
In fact if BAF was to get Eurofighter in the end this delay may be a blessing as then it would get the far superior Mk2(modern tech) AESA rather than the Mk0(US 2000s tech) that got flogged to the Gulfies.

Due to the design of the nose of the Tranche 1 aircraft they cannot fit an AESA radar without extensive modifications and no partner nation is planning to even try.


@Michael Corleone - Sorry, Eurofighter does not need AESA radar to fire Meteor but Tranche 1 definitely cannot fire Meteor. Only Tranche 2 and 3 can do that. No partner nation is planning any modifications on the Tranche 1 radar to allow them to be able to do that but maybe BD can somehow get it done if it buys some in the end.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> UK will start with the 40 Tranche 3 aircraft with this vastly improved AESA radar and then may move onto the Tranche 2.
> In fact if BAF was to get Eurofighter in the end this delay may be a blessing as then it would get the far superior Mk2(modern tech) AESA rather than the Mk0(US 2000s tech) that got flogged to the Gulfies.
> 
> Due to the design of the nose of the Tranche 1 aircraft they cannot fit an AESA radar without extensive modifications and no partner nation is planning to even try.
> 
> 
> @Michael Corleone - Sorry, Eurofighter does not need AESA radar to fire Meteor but Tranche 1 definitely cannot fire Meteor. Only Tranche 2 and 3 can do that. No partner nation is planning any modifications on the Tranche 1 radar to allow them to be able to do that but maybe BD can somehow get it done if it buys some in the end.








A Long Life for the Spanish EUROFIGHTER - European Security & Defence


The retrofit of Tranche 1, the integration of the E-Scan radar and a possible replacement of the Spanish fleet of 85 F-18 aircraft are the most important pillars for the future of the jet-fighter in Spain. In July 2020, the Spanish Air Force will receive its last EUROFIGHTER jet, reaching the 72...




euro-sd.com




Spanish tranche 1 got meteor and escan integration

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## The Ronin

The video was in 2018 and the chief was saying that air defense radar and SAM would come in 2019. @Arthur @Michael Corleone do you know anything?








Avicenna said:


> What do you think is the problem?
> 
> Why the delays?



Already said numerous times. Even @Destranator trolled me for it indirectly once or twice.



Avicenna said:


> What's with the DEFSECA article about BAF upgrading AAM for F-7?



I see AIM-9 Sidewinder in F-7's wiki page. Any chance? @Zarvan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Signalian



DalalErMaNodi said:


> What do you think guys



Cool. Still in a concept phase it looks like but would be great if it fits in armed forces requirement.



UKBengali said:


> Western options would probably be out of BN's budget.



All those news give different vibe though.


UKBengali said:


> What is the point of the latest two frigates?



Even though it looks like BN is doing good, it's actually not. According to DefRes it has more ships to decommission than it's commissioning.



SpaceMan18 said:


> Hmm I just wondered when the world by 2027-2030 will move onto 5th generation fighter aircraft what will Bangaldesh do then ?



The world will even move onto 6th generation fighter but will still operate 4.5 generations as well. You need to worry about your neighbors not the world.



UKBengali said:


> Why has BAF not already upgraded it's current 8 Mig-29s with new radars and the R-77 active-radar guided AAM?



Hopefully Mig-29 will be upgraded to BM standard and able to carry it. If the BM standard is equal to SMT version then can it fit non-Russo avionics-weapon? 🤔

@Arthur



UKBengali said:


> "Forces Goal 2030" with the plan for 10 squadrons(160) fighter planes by 2030 was a realistic and achievable plan as per BD's resources.



Let them achieve short-term goal first which is two multi-role and three air defense squadrons. Then you can say 10 squadrons by 2030 is realistic.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Just hope, the new one are better and more aware of the reality that surrounds us all.



Sadly news ones are more illiterate, khet and criminal than old ones.



UKBengali said:


> When it comes to 7 billion US dollar a year exports plus the billions of dollars of low-interest loans every year from World Bank, ADB and Japan that US has massive influence over, then you get an idea how influential US is.



Who has the upper-hand in loan-infrastructure projects in Bangladesh? Also who has more influence overall? The West or China? It seems China to me.

@Bilal9


----------



## Arthur

The Ronin said:


> The video was in 2018 and the chief was saying that air defense radar and SAM would come in 2019. @Arthur @Michael Corleone do you know anything?


Such is the state of BAF even FM 90 is "state of the art " AD. they did receive the Italian radars last year.


The Ronin said:


> The video was in 2018 and the chief was saying that air defense radar and SAM would come in 2019. @Arthur @Michael Corleone do you know anything?


Such is the state of BAF even FM 90 is "state of the art " AD. they did receive the Italian radars last year.



The Ronin said:


> Hopefully Mig-29 will be upgraded to BM standard and able to carry it. If the BM standard is equal to SMT version then can it fit non-Russo avionics-weapon? 🤔
> 
> @Arthur


Yes. BM upgrades introduces significant upgrade to the planes radar & optronics. This provides the aircraft with A2G(which was previously next to zero) & ability to guide long range a2a missile like R77. I am not sure if non Russian options.


----------



## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Tranche 1 can fire meteor with or without upgrades. It however is incapable to ground attack roles
> 
> Simple, marry someone from sheikh family  you’re from Barisal, right beside faridpur... they won’t have beef with your people



Fr true lol


The Ronin said:


> The video was in 2018 and the chief was saying that air defense radar and SAM would come in 2019. @Arthur @Michael Corleone do you know anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already said numerous times. Even @Destranator trolled me for it indirectly once or twice.
> 
> 
> 
> I see AIM-9 Sidewinder in F-7's wiki page. Any chance? @Zarvan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Signalian
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. Still in a concept phase it looks like but would be great if it fits in armed forces requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> All those news give different vibe though.
> 
> 
> Even though it looks like BN is doing good, it's actually not. According to DefRes it has more ships to decommission than it's commissioning.
> 
> 
> 
> The world will even move onto 6th generation fighter but will still operate 4.5 generations as well. You need to worry about your neighbors not the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully Mig-29 will be upgraded to BM standard and able to carry it. If the BM standard is equal to SMT version then can it fit non-Russo avionics-weapon? 🤔
> 
> @Arthur
> 
> 
> 
> Let them achieve short-term goal first which is two multi-role and three air defense squadrons. Then you can say 10 squadrons by 2030 is realistic.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly news ones are more illiterate, khet and criminal than old ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Who has the upper-hand in loan-infrastructure projects in Bangladesh? Also who has more influence overall? The West or China? It seems China to me.
> 
> @Bilal9



Well it's 2020 and we don't even have those dam medium range SAMs , why do I feel like he was lying ?


DalalErMaNodi said:


> I don't think he's of the marrying age yet, are there any vacant slots in the sheikh family ?
> 
> 
> 
> You said you wanted to start a party, now's the time.



Pssh I'm 18 ain't that enough ? 


Arthur said:


> Such is the state of BAF even FM 90 is "state of the art " AD. they did receive the Italian radars last year.
> 
> Such is the state of BAF even FM 90 is "state of the art " AD. they did receive the Italian radars last year.
> 
> 
> Yes. BM upgrades introduces significant upgrade to the planes radar & optronics. This provides the aircraft with A2G(which was previously next to zero) & ability to guide long range a2a missile like R77. I am not sure if non Russian options.



Why do they act like FM-90s are S500s or something

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> The video was in 2018 and the chief was saying that air defense radar and SAM would come in 2019. @Arthur @Michael Corleone do you know anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already said numerous times. Even @Destranator trolled me for it indirectly once or twice.
> 
> 
> 
> I see AIM-9 Sidewinder in F-7's wiki page. Any chance? @Zarvan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Signalian
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. Still in a concept phase it looks like but would be great if it fits in armed forces requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> All those news give different vibe though.
> 
> 
> Even though it looks like BN is doing good, it's actually not. According to DefRes it has more ships to decommission than it's commissioning.
> 
> 
> 
> The world will even move onto 6th generation fighter but will still operate 4.5 generations as well. You need to worry about your neighbors not the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully Mig-29 will be upgraded to BM standard and able to carry it. If the BM standard is equal to SMT version then can it fit non-Russo avionics-weapon? 🤔
> 
> @Arthur
> 
> 
> 
> Let them achieve short-term goal first which is two multi-role and three air defense squadrons. Then you can say 10 squadrons by 2030 is realistic.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly news ones are more illiterate, khet and criminal than old ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Who has the upper-hand in loan-infrastructure projects in Bangladesh? Also who has more influence overall? The West or China? It seems China to me.
> 
> @Bilal9


Air defence radar sure but I don’t know about SAM. Army getting shorads though


----------



## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Air defence radar sure but I don’t know about SAM. Army getting shorads though



They can take those SHORADs and stick it up their @ss , we need proper air defense. 

Air Force chief did say we will get Medium Range SAMs and I don't even know where it is or which one it is. 

I think I trust my Roblox girlfriend more than the BAF


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> They can take those SHORADs and stick it up their @ss , we need proper air defense.
> 
> Air Force chief did say we will get Medium Range SAMs and I don't even know where it is or which one it is.
> 
> I think I trust my Roblox girlfriend more than the BAF






Shorads are step one to establishing a layered air defence system, a strong short range base serves more purpose then long range ones; case in point Armenian having s300s without shorads or MANPADs.



Result ? Azerbaijan is doing a 'genocide' on Armenian army. Drones are mincing the poor sods, while S300s are doing **** all, except getting blown up.



Shorads coupled with GDF guns makes for a strong base, more shorads is always a good thing, they will get MRSAM soon, don't worry, tender was issued so that's being looked into.




What on earth is a Roblox girlfriend ? I thought Roblox was a video game... ?

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Shorads are step one to establishing a layered air defence system, a strong short range base serves more purpose then long range ones; case in point Armenian having s300s without shorads or MANPADs.
> 
> 
> 
> Result ? Azerbaijan is doing a 'genocide' on Armenian army. Drones are mincing the poor sods, while S300s are doing **** all, except getting blown up.
> 
> 
> 
> Shorads coupled with GDF guns makes for a strong base, more shorads is always a good thing, they will get MRSAM soon, don't worry, tender was issued so that's being looked into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What on earth is a Roblox girlfriend ? I thought Roblox was a video game... ?



Oh yea we do need shorads and AA guns , I don't think we have electronic warfare stuff though that might be an issue. 

Yea Roblox is a video game which is multiplayer lol , people meme about having Roblox girlfriends


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## DalalErMaNodi

Amar khan says MRSAM coming soon 






__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/208168190742692


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## ghost250

SpaceMan18 said:


> Oh yea we do need shorads and AA guns , *I don't think we have electronic warfare stuff* though that might be an issue.
> 
> Yea Roblox is a video game which is multiplayer lol , people meme about having Roblox girlfriends


awacs??then no...we do have ground based electronic warfare stuffs but most of them belong to army i think,pictures have been posted mutiple times!!


----------



## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> They can take those SHORADs and stick it up their @ss , we need proper air defense.
> 
> Air Force chief did say we will get Medium Range SAMs and I don't even know where it is or which one it is.
> 
> I think I trust my Roblox girlfriend more than the BAF


Yes Coming

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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Amar khan says MRSAM coming soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/208168190742692


For Amar Khan's sake, BAF should get something meaningful.
Poor guy has been let down by BAF for decades now.

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Yes Coming



Exactly when ? And which systems ?


Destranator said:


> For Amar Khan's sake, BAF should get something meaningful.
> Poor guy has been let down by BAF for decades now.



Air Cheif said this in 2019 , now in 2020 he said we need these fighters which indicate that we haven't bought fighters and I don't know him mentioning MRSAM either 

If we don't buy something by next year we're fücked

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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> If we don't buy something by *next year* we're fücked



What happens come next year ?


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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> What happens come next year ?


Next year will mark 50 years of BAF being a bottomless basket. People misquote Kissinger unnecessarily as he was quite concerned about Bangladesh's airspace.

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Exactly when ? And which systems ?
> 
> 
> Air Cheif said this in 2019 , now in 2020 he said we need these fighters which indicate that we haven't bought fighters and I don't know him mentioning MRSAM either
> 
> If we don't buy something by next year we're fücked


Ly80D apparently


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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Ly80D apparently



Hmmm I thought it was Hisar 0 but LY-80 will do

And watch if we get these systems , India's gonna be talking a lotta smack


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## Bilal9

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Amar khan says MRSAM coming soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/208168190742692



Well if Amar Khan says it, it's for sure a done deal.

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## UKBengali

Guys , no offence but can we please stop quoting websites and “personal sources” as this has been going on for years and years now?

Truth is none of us here have any real information about when or if BAF will buy any modern fighter aircraft.

It is nearly 2021 and the BAL have been in power for nearly 12 years and they have not brought a single modern fighter aircraft. We have had 16 F-7BGIs, 16 Yak-130 trainers, dozens of K-8Ws and lots of transport aircraft. This gives a good idea of where BD sees it’s priorities despite having more than 1 million Rohingyas expelled to it during the current rule of BAL.

Even public government statements cannot be trusted anymore as we did not see the contract for the 16 MRCA last year. Covid is not really a good enough excuse by now as lots of other countries are signing deals during this time.

The only things that can be relied upon is a public signing of a contract or confirmation from weapons manufacturer of a deal.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Guys , no offence but can we please stop quoting websites and “personal sources” as this has been going on for years and years now?
> 
> Truth is none of us here have any real information about when or if BAF will buy any modern fighter aircraft.
> 
> It is nearly 2021 and the BAL have been in power for nearly 12 years and they have not brought a single modern fighter aircraft. We have had 16 F-7BGIs, 16 Yak-130 trainers, dozens of K-8Ws and lots of transport aircraft. This gives a good idea of where BD sees it’s priorities despite having more than 1 million Rohingyas expelled to it during the current rule of BAL.
> 
> Even public government statements cannot be trusted anymore as we did not see the contract for the 16 MRCA last year. Covid is not really a good enough excuse by now as lots of other countries are signing deals during this time.
> 
> The only things that can be relied upon is a public signing of a contract or confirmation from weapons manufacturer of a deal.




You aren't wrong , at this point it's not patience it's just dam straight up lies and shîtty leadership. 

We desperately need these fighters , cause this will a big enough purchase where it will definitely be announced. 

2021 is near , I have lost all hope anyways 

We still have to get attack helicopters, AWACS , MRSAM , Maritime strike fighters and secondary single engine fighters 


WE HAVEN'T GOT NONE !

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> You aren't wrong , at this point it's not patience it's just dam straight up lies and shîtty leadership.
> 
> We desperately need these fighters , cause this will a big enough purchase where it will definitely be announced.
> 
> 2021 is near , I have lost all hope anyways
> 
> We still have to get attack helicopters, AWACS , MRSAM , Maritime strike fighters and secondary single engine fighters
> 
> 
> WE HAVEN'T GOT NONE !





BD has plenty of money now as it can get 10s of billions of US dollars of loans from Russia and China with ease. it can also find 4 billion US dollars out of it’s own pocket to build the Padma Bridge.

If you look at the Mega Projects they are slowly getting a bigger BD internal share of the cost.

BD is no longer a basket case that it once was and can afford to build a powerful enough military to safeguard it’s interests in this nasty neighbourhood.

The problem now seems to be for whatever reason the ruling BAL has little interest in creating a powerful enough military and is even content to let little Myanmar push BD around.

When it comes to economy, BAL cannot be faulted but it’s defence policy has made BD a weak and cowed country. This brings nothing but shame to all patriotic BD’shis.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> BD has plenty of money now as it can get 10s of billions of US dollars of loans from Russia and China with ease. it can also find 4 billion US dollars out of it’s own pocket to build the Padma Bridge.
> 
> If you look at the Mega Projects they are slowly getting a bigger BD internal share of the cost.
> 
> BD is no longer a basket case that it once was and can afford to build a powerful enough military to safeguard it’s interests in this nasty neighbourhood.
> 
> The problem now seems to be for whatever reason the ruling BAL has little interest in creating a powerful enough military and is even content to let little Myanmar push BD around.
> 
> When it comes to economy, BAL cannot be faulted but it’s defence policy has made BD a weak and cowed country. This brings nothing but shame to all patriotic BD’shis.



True , even the Air Force chief currently said we need new fighters desperately and our current fighters are 20 years old

So hopefully he can push for new fighters

Almost everyone has new toys and we don't 

People say LY-80s are coming but I don't see any news about it 

They talked about new drones , Wing Loong 2s are coming and also we are making our own too


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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> People say LY-80s are coming *but I don't see any news about it*



Perhaps, because matters of national security call for secrecy ?


BD doesn't flaunt their arms like Ind, Pak and MM, those three countries are in an arms race.


Pak to keep up with India, India to deal with China, Myanmar because military regime.



You see the pattern here ? We aren't in position like them, hell they'd trade arms for peace in a heartbeat, I know Pak would, If India wasn't a bully.



Whatever they acquire, they will make it known when they see fit, or they will unveil it at the victory day parades.



One mustn't forget, we are fighting through a pandemic, our economy has barely made it out of the thick, for the next 2 financial years our Economy will be reeling from the effects of the pandemic.


Then come 2023 Hasina goes, in comes political uncertainty and instability, add to that we graduate from LDC and lose our tariff waivers.



Government is wadding through uncharted territory now, we all are as a nation, we've been trying to scratch out FTAs/PTAs with our trading partners, never before has any other administration had to worry about such things.





We must look at things objectively, Burma is a rogue nation, where they eat rats (yes) amid pandemic to survive, because zero state support is being provided, social safety net ? They don't have one.




Bangladesh isn't in an arms race, Myanmar is never going to invade Bangladesh with the goal of annexation, this is the 21st century and mm isn't Russia. Hell, Myanmar can't even finance a war, they make one move towards us and the war lords take cue.


Similarly, India is happy to hamper our progress through subversive means, they don't want to fight a war, infact it is against their constitution to declare war without provocation.





We are going through a tough and challenging period but we are still at peace, we must make the most of this 'peace' while we can, war gaming hypothetical wars with monkey republics isn't going to get us anywhere.




If war comes home, we will fight, what is MM, if we could beat Pak ? Our factories under a war economy situations can produce enough arms to drown Myanmar in blood, by sheer force of manpower, we can overrun Myanmar. If needed we can utilize our 40 odd billion Forex reserve to finance our war, should it hit home but it won't.




So guys, keep your head down, work hard and let the country move on, we aren't in an arms race, do away with any such false notions.



Pak got jets, India got jets, MM got jets so we need them too ? This isn't high school, this is the real world, we've got 160 million people to feed.


Our priorities are different, those countries are failing, ones already a failed state. The armed forces are doing the needful, just at a slower pace with respect to our national priorities.


Let's be more objective.



Thank you.

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> True , even the Air Force chief currently said we need new fighters desperately and our current fighters are 20 years old
> 
> So hopefully he can push for new fighters
> 
> Almost everyone has new toys and we don't
> 
> People say LY-80s are coming but I don't see any news about it
> 
> They talked about new drones , Wing Loong 2s are coming and also we are making our own too





Like I say it is best not to give any credence to talk from anyone as even the BD President saying it in Parliament means nothing.

We should only talk about anything once a contract has been signed.

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## Nike

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Perhaps, because matters of national security call for secrecy ?
> 
> 
> BD doesn't flaunt their arms like Ind, Pak and MM, those three countries are in an arms race.
> 
> 
> Pak to keep up with India, India to deal with China, Myanmar because military regime.
> 
> 
> 
> You see the pattern here ? We aren't in position like them, hell they'd trade arms for peace in a heartbeat, I know Pak would, If India wasn't a bully.
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever they acquire, they will make it known when they see fit, or they will unveil it at the victory day parades.
> 
> 
> 
> One mustn't forget, we are fighting through a pandemic, our economy has barely made it out of the thick, for the next 2 financial years our Economy will be reeling from the effects of the pandemic.
> 
> 
> Then come 2023 Hasina goes, in comes political uncertainty and instability, add to that we graduate from LDC and lose our tariff waivers.
> 
> 
> 
> Government is wadding through uncharted territory now, we all are as a nation, we've been trying to scratch out FTAs/PTAs with our trading partners, never before has any other administration had to worry about such things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We must look at things objectively, Burma is a rogue nation, where they eat rats (yes) amid pandemic to survive, because zero state support is being provided, social safety net ? They don't have one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh isn't in an arms race, Myanmar is never going to invade Bangladesh with the goal of annexation, this is the 21st century and mm isn't Russia. Hell, Myanmar can't even finance a war, they make one move towards us and the war lords take cue.
> 
> 
> Similarly, India is happy to hamper our progress through subversive means, they don't want to fight a war, infact it is against their constitution to declare war without provocation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are going through a tough and challenging period but we are still at peace, we must make the most of this 'peace' while we can, war gaming hypothetical wars with monkey republics isn't going to get us anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If war comes home, we will fight, what is MM, if we could beat Pak ? Our factories under a war economy situations can produce enough arms to drown Myanmar in blood, by sheer force of manpower, we can overrun Myanmar. If needed we can utilize our 40 odd billion Forex reserve to finance our war, should it hit home but it won't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So guys, keep your head down, work hard and let the country move on, we aren't in an arms race, do away with any such false notions.
> 
> 
> 
> Pak got jets, India got jets, MM got jets so we need them too ? This isn't high school, this is the real world, we've got 160 million people to feed.
> 
> 
> Our priorities are different, those countries are failing, ones already a failed state. The armed forces are doing the needful, just at a slower pace with respect to our national priorities.
> 
> 
> Let's be more objective.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.



Every sensible Nation should guard their wealth and citizens from any would be thief and invader. Failed to do so only bring disaster for the Nation as a whole. To do so you should arming yourselves and stand guard proudly. In modern era, to have modern Air Force is a must. To being able to balance between bread and bullets is a must, we can looking up for countries like Singapore, South Korea And China as they able thrive yet had one of the most modern and powerful armed forces the rest of the world can only envy. China and South Korea is more poorer and backward in the 1960 even compared to India and Pakistan. 

Don't follow the state of Pakistan, India and Myanmar as they even can't give basic necessities for their own people but still pursue more arms.

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## UKBengali

Nike said:


> Every sensible Nation should guard their wealth and citizens from any would be thief and invader. Failed to do so only bring disaster for the Nation as a whole. To do so you should arming yourselves and stand guard proudly. In modern era, to have modern Air Force is a must. To being able to balance between bread and bullets is a must, we can looking up for countries like Singapore, South Korea And China as they able thrive yet had one of the most modern and powerful armed forces the rest of the world can only envy. China and South Korea is more poorer and backward in the 1960 even compared to India and Pakistan.
> 
> Don't follow the state of Pakistan, India and Myanmar as they even can't give basic necessities for their own people but still pursue more arms.



India actually does not spend that much on defence at only 2% of GDP. This is in contrast to total government spending of 30% of GDP.
Their poverty is more due to the nature of their country and economic policies

Pakistan and Myanmar have their own reasons for their high defence spending.

BD actually does spend a decent amount on arms(1.5% of GDP) but the problem is more where the money is spent on.

BAF spends all it’s money on 3rd gen fighters, trainers and transport aircraft.
BN seems to have a fetish for old and obsolete submarines and frigates.

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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> India actually does not spend that much on defence at only 2% of GDP. This is in contrast to total government spending of 30% of GDP.
> Their poverty is more due to the nature of their country and economic policies
> 
> Pakistan and Myanmar have their own reasons for their high defence spending.
> 
> BD actually does spend a decent amount on arms(1.5% of GDP) but the problem is more where the money is spent on.
> 
> BAF spends all it’s money on 3rd gen fighters, trainers and transport aircraft.
> BN seems to have a fetish for old and obsolete submarines and frigates.



Countries like Singapore and South Korea both spend over 15 percentage to 35 percentage of their state budget toward military spending every years. The reason their country still able to thrive is their open minded economy policy and development with relaxation on Investment and easy to build business over there. Less red tape and more into action and very efficient. The facts of most Singaporean and South Korean citizen all had basic military training and leadership culture (standing by the facts they are few who still maintain conscription over their whole male population the rest is Taiwan and Israel) Made such progres over society in most efficient efforts and Times is possible. 

Back to topic again

Bangladesh Air Force still needed more homework to be done. And i think formulating what the Azeris done recently is good idea to overcome adversaries with dense Air Defense system such Myanmar.

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## UKBengali

Nike said:


> Countries like Singapore and South Korea both spend over 15 percentage to 35 percentage of their state budget toward military spending every years. The reason their country still able to thrive is their open minded economy policy and development with relaxation on Investment and easy to build business over there. Less red tape and more into action and very efficient. The facts of most Singaporean and South Korean citizen all had basic military training and leadership culture (standing by the facts they are few who still maintain conscription over their whole male population the rest is Taiwan and Israel) Made such progres over society in most efficient efforts and Times is possible.
> 
> Back to topic again
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force still needed more homework to be done. And i think formulating what the Azeris done recently is good idea to overcome adversaries with dense Air Defense system such Myanmar.



I agree that BAF actually needs to have a proper plan over the short-medium and long term in order to move forwards.
Unfortunately there may not be any qualified senior Air Force officers in BAF that can even formulate a coherent plan as of now.

To date it has not published a document that lays out what it’s primary missions are. You would presume that would be to defend the airspace of BD and support the BN and BA.

It then needs to set out realistic dates on when it can partially and then fully meet these targets and the rough number of assets it needs to achieve this.

With the lack of a single modern fighter plane being ordered in more than 2 decades the only obvious answer is that whatever it’s mission is it is not to adequately defend the airspace of BD or support the BN and BA.

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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> I agree that BAF actually needs to have a proper plan over the short-medium and long term in order to move forwards.
> Unfortunately there may not be any qualified senior Air Force officers in BAF that can even formulate a coherent plan as of now.
> 
> To date it has not published a document that lays out what it’s primary missions are. You would presume that would be to defend the airspace of BD and support the BN and BA.
> 
> It then needs to set out realistic dates on when it can partially and then fully meet these targets and the rough number of assets it needs to achieve this.
> 
> With the lack of a single modern fighter plane being ord



There is much homework indeed


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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> I agree that BAF actually needs to have a proper plan over the short-medium and long term in order to move forwards.
> Unfortunately there may not be any qualified senior Air Force officers in BAF that can even formulate a coherent plan as of now.
> 
> To date it has not published a document that lays out what it’s primary missions are. You would presume that would be to defend the airspace of BD and support the BN and BA.
> 
> It then needs to set out realistic dates on when it can partially and then fully meet these targets and the rough number of assets it needs to achieve this.
> 
> With the lack of a single modern fighter plane being ordered in more than 2 decades the only obvious answer is that whatever it’s mission is it is not to adequately defend the airspace of BD or support the BN and BA.




It's all about leadership , BAF does know it need new fighters but again there's something we don't know about that's hampering our ability to get new stuff as we desperately need it. 


Peace doesn't exist , it is enforced 

Enforced by weapons , and if we don't make our Air Force or Navy strong you can say goodbye to our economy. 

I am tired and hopeless to see that BAF is just not doing anything

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## Imran Khan

UKBengali said:


> Guys , no offence but can we please stop quoting websites and “personal sources” as this has been going on for years and years now?
> 
> Truth is none of us here have any real information about when or if BAF will buy any modern fighter aircraft.
> 
> It is nearly 2021 and the BAL have been in power for nearly 12 years and they have not brought a single modern fighter aircraft. We have had 16 F-7BGIs, 16 Yak-130 trainers, dozens of K-8Ws and lots of transport aircraft. This gives a good idea of where BD sees it’s priorities despite having more than 1 million Rohingyas expelled to it during the current rule of BAL.
> 
> Even public government statements cannot be trusted anymore as we did not see the contract for the 16 MRCA last year. Covid is not really a good enough excuse by now as lots of other countries are signing deals during this time.
> 
> The only things that can be relied upon is a public signing of a contract or confirmation from weapons manufacturer of a deal.


this i have seen many times in past for few days BD members give up new fighters . but then they return with more powerful more advance more trustworthy source with more advance next gen fighter claim .


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## SpaceMan18

Imran Khan said:


> this i have seen many times in past for few days BD members give up new fighters . but then they return with more powerful more advance more trustworthy source with more advance next gen fighter claim .



sike us Bangaldeshis have 11th generation space fighter jets , while you're stuck with your JF-17s 

Jk but yeah , we give up.. Not really but sorta


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## Imran Khan

SpaceMan18 said:


> sike us Bangaldeshis have 11th generation space fighter jets , while you're stuck with your JF-17s
> 
> Jk but yeah , we give up.. Not really but sorta

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## alphapak

Why don't BAF go for Gripen fighter jets and get their Saab erieyes?


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## DalalErMaNodi

alphapak said:


> Why don't BAF go for Gripen fighter jets and get their Saab erieyes?





Because they're morons.

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## alphapak

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Because they're morons.



Lol. Another BAF (Brazil) has gone for 36 Gripen fighter jets and I was thinking
this would be a good option for Bangladesh. If Bangladesh can get 36 fighters,
2 erieyes plus meteor, then that would be an excellent package to start off.

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## Avicenna

alphapak said:


> Lol. Another BAF (Brazil) has gone for 36 Gripen fighter jets and I was thinking
> this would be a good option for Bangladesh. If Bangladesh can get 36 fighters,
> 2 erieyes plus meteor, then that would be an excellent package to start off.



Agreed.

This isn't rocket science like BAF is making it out to be.


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## UKBengali

alphapak said:


> Lol. Another BAF (Brazil) has gone for 36 Gripen fighter jets and I was thinking
> this would be a good option for Bangladesh. If Bangladesh can get 36 fighters,
> 2 erieyes plus meteor, then that would be an excellent package to start off.



Problem with Gripen is you end up dealing with 3 countries - Sweden, UK and USA.

If you are trying to keep free of the US then Gripen is not a good choice, although once you buy it the GE engine will last for the lifetime of the airframe.

I also have doubts on the quality of it’s AESA radar as the UK was highly unimpressed with the Captor-E Mk0 of the Eurofighter that it tested against F-35Bs, so it is building a more advanced one for it’s fleet of Eurofighters.

Remember the UK designed both the Gripen E and Eurofighter AESA radars at similar times and although Sweden offered to build an upgraded radar for India it is not likely to do that for a much smaller BD order unless BD literally pays hundreds of millions of dollars for it’s development.

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## alphapak

UKBengali said:


> Problem with Gripen is you end up dealing with 3 countries - Sweden, UK and USA.
> 
> If you are trying to keep free of the US then Gripen is not a good choice, although once you buy it the GE engine will last for the lifetime of the airframe.
> 
> I also have doubts on the quality of it’s AESA radar as the UK was highly unimpressed with the Captor-E Mk0 of the Eurofighter that it tested against F-35Bs, so it is building a more advanced one for it’s fleet of Eurofighters.
> 
> Remember the UK designed both the Gripen E and Eurofighter AESA radars at similar times and although Sweden offered to build an upgraded radar for India it is not likely to do that for a much smaller BD order unless BD literally pays hundreds of millions of dollars for it’s development.



What about the Chinese Fighter J10? or does Bangladesh not want to deal with them?
They already operate F7's bought from China. BAF should be on the look out for single
engine fighter jet option because they are easier and more cost effective to maintain.

Options for Baf are F16, Gripen, J10, Jf 17, Mirage 2000. What would you pick?


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## Avicenna

A nice discussion about SAMs.

Enjoy a cup of tea and listen!

(interview starts from about the 20 minute mark.)


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Problem with Gripen is you end up dealing with 3 countries - Sweden, UK and USA.
> 
> If you are trying to keep free of the US then Gripen is not a good choice, although once you buy it the GE engine will last for the lifetime of the airframe.
> 
> I also have doubts on the quality of it’s AESA radar as the UK was highly unimpressed with the Captor-E Mk0 of the Eurofighter that it tested against F-35Bs, so it is building a more advanced one for it’s fleet of Eurofighters.
> 
> Remember the UK designed both the Gripen E and Eurofighter AESA radars at similar times and although Sweden offered to build an upgraded radar for India it is not likely to do that for a much smaller BD order unless BD literally pays hundreds of millions of dollars for it’s development.


Tbh captor e mk1 is better than any zhuk radar upgrade we have now, we don’t need to match f35 f22 raptor in capability, our threats operate aircraft deficient in those characteristics


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## Destranator

The below is an ideal new fighter fleet composition for BAF to build towards gradually by 2040 (*which will not materialise. Don't get your hopes up from this post or bitch about "pipedreaming"*).


2 sqd EFTs (T3)
3 sqd Gripen F's with ToT (including SAAB's assistance in building up BAC from scratch, setting up training regimen for technicians, and fixing the aviation university's curriculumn)
3 sqd J-10C's

This composition will benefit in a few major ways:

Exposure to and compatibility with quality Western aeronautics, avionics and weapon systems, providing qualitative edge over Burma and paving way for upgrades to cutting edge tech in the distant future.
Access to Western tech not available to Burma (EFTs, Gripens)
Access to tech not accessible to India (J-10s)
Redundancy against Western strings/sanctions (J-10s).
Better understanding of relative advances in Chinese and Western fighter tech.
Again, the above is what *should* happen and not what *will* happen, thanks to BAF.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> The below is an ideal new fighter fleet composition for BAF to build towards gradually by 2040 (*which will not materialise. Don't get your hopes up from this post*.).
> 
> 
> 2 sqd EFTs (T3)
> 3 sqd Gripen F's with ToT (including SAAB's assistance in building up BAC from scratch, setting up training regimen for technicians, and fixing the aviation university's curriculumn)
> 3 sqd J-10C's
> 
> This composition will benefit in a few major ways:
> 
> Exposure to and compatibility with quality Western aeronautics, avionics and weapon systems, providing qualitative edge over Burma and paving way for future upgrades to cutting edge tech in the distant future.
> Access to Western tech not available to Burma (EFTs, Gripens)
> Access to tech not accessible to India (J-10s)
> Redundancy against Western strings/sanctions (J-10s).
> Better understanding of relative advances in Chinese and Western fighter tech.
> Again, the above is what *should* happen and not what *will* happen, thanks to BAF.






Who came up with the above ?


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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Who came up with the above ?


I did why?


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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> I did why?





No reason. Good plan for Burma airforce.


Btw, I heard Biman Bangladesh is under the pump now as Bangabandhu air force is digging it's worn out claws into human hauling.


C-130j Vs Boeing 787-9; Monday night raw, don't forget to enjoy it with a bowl of soggy fat rice.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> The below is an ideal new fighter fleet composition for BAF to build towards gradually by 2040 (*which will not materialise. Don't get your hopes up from this post or bitch about "pipedreaming"*).
> 
> 
> 2 sqd EFTs (T3)
> 3 sqd Gripen F's with ToT (including SAAB's assistance in building up BAC from scratch, setting up training regimen for technicians, and fixing the aviation university's curriculumn)
> 3 sqd J-10C's
> 
> This composition will benefit in a few major ways:
> 
> Exposure to and compatibility with quality Western aeronautics, avionics and weapon systems, providing qualitative edge over Burma and paving way for future upgrades to cutting edge tech in the distant future.
> Access to Western tech not available to Burma (EFTs, Gripens)
> Access to tech not accessible to India (J-10s)
> Redundancy against Western strings/sanctions (J-10s).
> Better understanding of relative advances in Chinese and Western fighter tech.
> Again, the above is what *should* happen and not what *will* happen, thanks to BAF.


This will not happen because it’s illogical 😂


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> This will not happen because it’s illogical 😂


"Illogical" why (BAF incompetence aside)?
Detailed reasoning please beyond one-liners.

The above is an optimal minimum, to meet prevalent military challenges that we face, which would be achievable if BAF were not morons.

It's a given that this will not happen.


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## Avicenna

Ideal option: a good number of a modern Western multirole type.

Another option: split buy of a Western and Chinese type.

What should not be options are Russian or Indian types.

This is not rocket science people.

What's troubling is the gap in capability between BAF and MyAF.

It takes time to effectively utilize new types.

BAF hasn't even placed an order yet apparently.

What happens if hostility breaks out? (Burma is run by anti Bengali thugs)

Cry to the UN?

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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> "Illogical" why (BAF incompetence aside)?






Gripen + J10c


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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Gripen + J10c


Why is it illogical? We do not live in an ideal world where we can just rely on one source for single engine fighters to streamline maintenance.
Mind you single engine fighters will form the backbone of the fleet and therefore redundancy is essential.

Western supplies may be frozen in the event of conflict with India and the same goes for Chinese suppliers against Burma.

Western tech is better but comes with strings.
Chinese tech is inferior but comes without strings and with credit.

Beyond 2040-50, Bangladesh-West relations might graduate to a position where strings become non-existent. We can then go all-in with Western tech for 5th/6th Gen tech.

Again, let us not forget that BAF is BAF.


Avicenna said:


> Another option: split buy of a Western and Chinese type.



This is THE option for BAF (which they are too stupid to utilise). Bangladesh is no NATO or Japan which can bank on uninterrupted Western supplies.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> "Illogical" why (BAF incompetence aside)?
> Detailed reasoning please beyond one-liners.
> 
> The above is an optimal minimum, to meet prevalent military challenges that we face, which would be achievable if BAF were not morons.
> 
> It's a given that this will not happen.


Two platforms is a difficult task for even the best air forces. But you propose 3 different platforms that will need airmen trained for maintenance of three different suppliers not to mention the cost associated with spares not just based on numbers but the different varieties as well. This approach is nothing short of Indonesia’s incompetence at maintaining a decent submarine force, all they bought were at some point cannibalized... or if we’re sticking with air forces, india... less than 70% of flanker platform is operational at any given time and heir mix of Jaguars, mirages and migs are nightmare for them... 
what bd needs is as cost effective aircraft that meets capabilities for latest operational scenarios. 
bangladesh can’t afford to lose an eft (accident or otherwise) Bangladesh certainly won’t bat an eye if they lost a f7 BGI tomorrow...
in that regards as air chief talked about credible deterrence, my approach will be to stick with one platform for the foreseeable future, platform may be single engined, what matters us numbers. 
I would sign a contract for 3 squadrons of j10c with an optional contract for 4 more. 3x16=48 j10c within 2-3 years isn’t impossible to achieve and gives our airforce the breathing room it needs. A further 64 aircraft purchase ensures airforce can maintain effective deterrence and control over the airspace. Fancy fighters can always come at a later stage when the economy is bigger.
But here’s what’s actually going to happen
BAF will get a white elephant 16 EFT or whatever platform that doesnt provide adequate strength and then stick with it for the next 30 years

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Because they're morons.



Um man uh , Gripens use American engines


Michael Corleone said:


> Two platforms is a difficult task for even the best air forces. But you propose 3 different platforms that will need airmen trained for maintenance of three different suppliers not to mention the cost associated with spares not just based on numbers but the different varieties as well. This approach is nothing short of Indonesia’s incompetence at maintaining a decent submarine force, all they bought were at some point cannibalized... or if we’re sticking with air forces, india... less than 70% of flanker platform is operational at any given time and heir mix of Jaguars, mirages and migs are nightmare for them...
> what bd needs is as cost effective aircraft that meets capabilities for latest operational scenarios.
> bangladesh can’t afford to lose an eft (accident or otherwise) Bangladesh certainly won’t bat an eye if they lost a f7 BGI tomorrow...
> in that regards as air chief talked about credible deterrence, my approach will be to stick with one platform for the foreseeable future, platform may be single engined, what matters us numbers.
> I would sign a contract for 3 squadrons of j10c with an optional contract for 4 more. 3x16=48 j10c within 2-3 years isn’t impossible to achieve and gives our airforce the breathing room it needs. A further 64 aircraft purchase ensures airforce can maintain effective deterrence and control over the airspace. Fancy fighters can always come at a later stage when the economy is bigger.
> But here’s what’s actually going to happen
> BAF will get a white elephant 16 EFT or whatever platform that doesnt provide adequate strength and then stick with it for the next 30 years



The logical option is J-10cs , but relying on China for fighters may back stab us when we will use it against Myanmar. 

Numbers matter here , honestly Gripen was a good option but again it uses American engines. 

Let's not forget these jets are nothing without AWACS or MRSAMs , we also have to eventually buy longer range SAMs in the future. 

Then comes 5th gen in about 2028-2030 , BAF has no Fúcking vision whatsoever and will always be a backward branch 

We still don't even have a partner for our next gen frigate program, Navy is honestly stealing money just to buy low tier shîtty frigates with stupid short range SAMs on it.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Two platforms is a difficult task for even the best air forces. But you propose 3 different platforms that will need airmen trained for maintenance of three different suppliers not to mention the cost associated with spares not just based on numbers but the different varieties as well. This approach is nothing short of Indonesia’s incompetence at maintaining a decent submarine force, all they bought were at some point cannibalized... or if we’re sticking with air forces, india... less than 70% of flanker platform is operational at any given time and heir mix of Jaguars, mirages and migs are nightmare for them...



Many small air forces operate three different platforms. It is not that difficult to manage maintenance regimen for three different platforms. Even BAF has past experience in maintaining three different fighter platforms.

India's maintenance struggles are unique in that it is a poor country with a massive air force managed by incompetent people. Also unreliability of Russian equipment and Russians as suppliers also plays a huge part in India's struggles. BAF's need of 6-10 squadrons is minuscule in comparision.

By the time BAF would transition to three new platforms, MiG-29s and F-7s will be out of the picture.



> what bd needs is as cost effective aircraft that meets capabilities for latest operational scenarios.
> bangladesh can’t afford to lose an eft (accident or otherwise) Bangladesh certainly won’t bat an eye if they lost a f7 BGI tomorrow...



BAF needs at least a couple of squadrons of high performance (manoeuvrability + range + payload) air superiority fighters to strike deep into enemy territory and counter Su-30 and MiG-29 variants. Numbers alone cannot fulfill this particular role.

Such fighters will be costly to operate no matter where you get them from. EFT would at least be reliable.



> in that regards as air chief talked about credible deterrence, my approach will be to stick with one platform for the foreseeable future, platform may be single engined, what matters us numbers.



You cannot achieve "credible deterrence" when you keep yourself exposed for being hamstrung by the supplier (West against India and China against Burma)
We do need single engine fighters both in numbers and with redundancy.
If we are forced to stick to only two platforms, I'd forget EFTs and get J-10s and Gripens in numbers with as much ToT as possible for both.

BAF should forget whatever vanity project on building trainers they are up to and instead collaborate with SAAB to prepare BAC, the aviation university and BAF to operate, maintain, overhaul and eventually assemble and manufacture (spares at least) Gripens.




> I would sign a contract for 3 squadrons of j10c with an optional contract for 4 more. 3x16=48 j10c within 2-3 years isn’t impossible to achieve and gives our airforce the breathing room it needs. A further 64 aircraft purchase ensures airforce can maintain effective deterrence and control over the airspace. Fancy fighters can always come at a later stage when the economy is bigger.



Agreed. The above is a no brainer. I cannot find any justification as to why BAF has not ordered J-10s yet.





> But here’s what’s actually going to happen
> BAF will get a white elephant 16 EFT or whatever platform that doesnt provide adequate strength and then stick with it for the next 30 years



Agreed again. I fear this is exactly what is going to happen.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Many small air forces operate three different platforms. It is not that difficult to manage maintenance regimen for three different platforms. Even BAF has past experience in maintaining three different fighter platforms.
> 
> India's maintenance struggles are unique in that it is a poor country with a massive air force managed by incompetent people. Also unreliability of Russian equipment and Russians as suppliers also plays a huge part in India's struggles. BAF's need of 6-10 squadrons is minuscule in comparision.
> 
> By the time BAF would transition to three new platforms, MiG-29s and F-7s will be out of the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> BAF needs at least a couple of squadrons of high performance (manoeuvrability + range + payload) air superiority fighters to strike deep into enemy territory and counter Su-30 and MiG-29 variants. Numbers alone cannot fulfill this particular role.
> 
> Such fighters will be costly to operate no matter where you get them from. EFT would at least be reliable.
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot achieve "credible deterrence" when you keep yourself exposed for being hamstrung by the supplier (West against India and China against Burma)
> We do need single engine fighters both in numbers and with redundancy.
> If we are forced to stick to only two platforms, I'd forget EFTs and get J-10s and Gripens in numbers with as much ToT as possible for both.
> 
> BAF should forget whatever vanity project on building trainers they are up to and instead collaborate with SAAB to prepare BAC, the aviation university and BAF to operate, maintain, overhaul and eventually assemble and manufacture (spares at least) Gripens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. The above is a no brainer. I cannot find any justification as to why BAF has not ordered J-10s yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed again. I fear this is exactly what is going to happen.


Our doctrine will not allow us to go at offensive. At most we will be defending our airspace. We won’t be going into deep strike missions in enemy territory.
And as for maintaining 3 platforms. You answered it yourself. India is a poor country. We aren’t doing any better

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Ideal option: a good number of a modern Western multirole type.
> 
> Another option: split buy of a Western and Chinese type.
> 
> What should not be options are Russian or Indian types.
> 
> This is not rocket science people.
> 
> What's troubling is the gap in capability between BAF and MyAF.
> 
> It takes time to effectively utilize new types.
> 
> BAF hasn't even placed an order yet apparently.
> 
> What happens if hostility breaks out? (Burma is run by anti Bengali thugs)
> 
> Cry to the UN?






Western and Chinese options now are a no brainer in my opinion. Turkey could start to follow in the 2030s if they actually manage to produce a somewhat decent 5th gen fighter but with a Western(probably UK) engine.

I have already posted many times that BAF needs to stay away from committing too much resources in the 2020s on 4th gen fighters. Yes Eurofighters with the upcoming Mk2 AESA radar would be especially good but the simple fact remains that they would be quite a way inferior to any 5th gen fighter like J-31 that comes out of China that Myanmar may start to field in very limited numbers(12-16) towards the latter part of this decade or early 2030s.

This is a big problem for BAF as it really needs to spend whatever little funding the BD government provides very wisely.

So my plan sees a Western and Chinese mix of new and refurbished 4th gen fighters in limited numbers this decade in order to cater fully for Myanmar and at least a start against India.
Think a couple of squadrons each of J-10C and refurbished F-16Cs or Eurofighters(with Meteor) if available would be the way too go.

Too many brand new 4th gen fighters that would still be in service in the 2050s would not be a good place to be.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Our doctrine will not allow us to go at offensive. At most we will be defending our airspace. We won’t be going into deep strike missions in enemy territory.
> And as for maintaining 3 platforms. You answered it yourself. India is a poor country. We aren’t doing any better


Even with a defensive doctrine you need offensive capabilities to neutralise key enemy military assets.
The other function of EFTs would be to counter Su-30s WVR.

There is simply no comparison between BAF maintaining 3 Western (reliable equipment) and Chinese (reliable supplier) platforms and the mess that IAF is in with 30+ squadrons of mostly Russian (unreliable eqpt + unreliable supplier) scattered over a large and diverse geographical area.

Maintaining only 3 different fighter platforms is pretty well manageable as evident worldwide.

If BAF morons still struggle, they can still gain credible deterrence by going for 6-8 squadrons of J10C's + Gripen F's.

They should order 2 sqds of J-10Cs immediately and then work to sort other things.

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Our doctrine will not allow us to go at offensive. At most we will be defending our airspace. We won’t be going into deep strike missions in enemy territory.
> And as for maintaining 3 platforms. You answered it yourself. India is a poor country. We aren’t doing any better



If Myanmar does attack we will have to actually go into deep strike missions to do damage to their ports. Or just ally with Thailand to keep Myanmar at bay

We just need a longer range and modern fighter , Gripens are good but BAf morons rejected it.


Destranator said:


> Even with a defensive doctrine you need offensive capabilities to neutralise key enemy military assets.
> The other function of EFTs would be to counter Su-30s WVR.
> 
> There is simply no comparison between BAF maintaining 3 Western (reliable equipment) and Chinese (reliable supplier) platforms and the mess that IAF is in with 30+ squadrons of mostly Russian (unreliable eqpt + unreliable supplier) scattered over a large and diverse geographical area.
> 
> Maintaining only 3 different fighter platforms is pretty well manageable as evident worldwide.
> 
> If BAF morons still struggle, they can still gain credible deterrence by going for 6-8 squadrons of J10C's + Gripen F's.
> 
> They should order 2 sqds of J-10Cs immediately and then work to sort other things.



I agree, but man we'll have to wait til next year to see what these buffoons actually have ordered something or not. 

J-10Cs with refurbished Typhoons would do 

Also set aside some Typhoons for Maritime strike roles 

And by 2028 start to plan for the Turkish Tai TFX cause it's rolling out by 2029

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> If Myanmar does attack we will have to actually go into deep strike missions to do damage to their ports. Or just ally with Thailand to keep Myanmar at bay
> 
> We just need a longer range and modern fighter , Gripens are good but BAf morons rejected it.
> 
> 
> I agree, but man we'll have to wait til next year to see what these buffoons actually have ordered something or not.
> 
> J-10Cs with refurbished Typhoons would do
> 
> Also set aside some Typhoons for Maritime strike roles
> 
> And by 2028 start to plan for the Turkish Tai TFX cause it's rolling out by 2029



Only point to add is that TF-X is unlikely be available for export till the early 2030s at the earliest.
2035 would be a realistic earliest date for service with export customers.


The major problem with TF-X will be it's engine. Turkey is both developing it's own 4th gen engine and may work with UK on a 5th gen one.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Only point to add is that TF-X is unlikely be available for export till the early 2030s at the earliest.
> 2035 would be a realistic earliest date for service with export customers.
> 
> 
> The major problem with TF-X will be it's engine. Turkey is both developing it's own 4th gen engine and may work with UK on a 5th gen one.



I guess J-31 is another option , do you have any other 5th gen suggestions ?

F-35 isn't an option , and I'm not sure if other European nations are making their own 5th gen fighters 

If BAF doesn't sign a deal by next year , they can remove the Air Force name from them and call themselves a trainer/transport company with some weapons


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Only point to add is that TF-X is unlikely be available for export till the early 2030s at the earliest.
> 2035 would be a realistic earliest date for service with export customers.
> 
> 
> The major problem with TF-X will be it's engine. Turkey is both developing it's own 4th gen engine and may work with UK on a 5th gen one.


I thought they’re developing engine with the tempest project guys


Destranator said:


> Even with a defensive doctrine you need offensive capabilities to neutralise key enemy military assets.
> The other function of EFTs would be to counter Su-30s WVR.
> 
> There is simply no comparison between BAF maintaining 3 Western (reliable equipment) and Chinese (reliable supplier) platforms and the mess that IAF is in with 30+ squadrons of mostly Russian (unreliable eqpt + unreliable supplier) scattered over a large and diverse geographical area.
> 
> Maintaining only 3 different fighter platforms is pretty well manageable as evident worldwide.
> 
> If BAF morons still struggle, they can still gain credible deterrence by going for 6-8 squadrons of J10C's + Gripen F's.
> 
> They should order 2 sqds of J-10Cs immediately and then work to sort other things.


With a billion or less spend in airforce, good luck getting more than 16 high end jets


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> I guess J-31 is another option , do you have any other 5th gen suggestions ?
> 
> F-35 isn't an option , and I'm not sure if other European nations are making their own 5th gen fighters
> 
> If BAF doesn't sign a deal by next year , they can remove the Air Force name from them and call themselves a trainer/transport company with some weapons



J-31 will be the fighter for India but not Myanmar for obvious reasons.

European options are probably out as UK Tempest will not come out till 2035 at the earliest and exports not till 2040. UK may also not sell such a hi-tech jet to BD for at least the first decade of service.
Franco-German NGF is only stated for service at home starting in 2040.

@Michael Corleone - Initial deal was signed but no firm commitment has been made yet.
I think that TF-X will get a co-developed next-gen engine based on the Tempest core-engine tech but with a 4th gen Turkish option both as backup and to help develop the Turkish aero-engine industry.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> J-31 will be the fighter for India but not Myanmar for obvious reasons.
> 
> European options are probably out as UK Tempest will not come out till 2035 at the earliest and exports not till 2040. UK may also not sell such a hi-tech jet to BD for at least the first decade of service.
> Franco-German NGF is only stated for service at home starting in 2040.
> 
> @Michael Corleone - Initial deal was signed but no firm commitment has been made yet.
> I think that TF-X will get a co-developed next-gen engine based on the Tempest core-engine tech but with a 4th gen Turkish option both as backup and to help develop the Turkish aero-engine industry.



Either way I guess TFX so the only option , but we don't even have 4th gen fighters yet.

How do we expect these brain dead people to start thinking of 5th generation platforms 

President did say we will eventually get 5th generation fighters


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## ghost250

why dont u people take a break??!! previous 100 pages were about "baf kela pare naa,kisuh kine naa,amra moira jaitesii,myanmar dhokhol kore nitese..." ..same pechal over nd over again..i knw we all r disappointed with this sorry state of baf..but keep harping same thing over nd over again wont chng anythng..

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## Avicenna

ghost250 said:


> why dont u people take a break??!! previous 100 pages were about "baf kela pare naa,kisuh kine naa,amra moira jaitesii,myanmar dhokhol kore nitese..." ..same pechal over nd over again..i knw we all r disappointed with this sorry state of baf..but keep harping same thing over nd over again wont chng anythng..



LOL.

We are bored.

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## UKBengali

ghost250 said:


> why dont u people take a break??!! previous 100 pages were about "baf kela pare naa,kisuh kine naa,amra moira jaitesii,myanmar dhokhol kore nitese..." ..same pechal over nd over again..i knw we all r disappointed with this sorry state of baf..but keep harping same thing over nd over again wont chng anythng..





Dude, we are taking about the best aircraft to get for BAF now that it is nearly 2021 and no actual orders yet.

If you notice the talk has somewhat changed from getting new build 4th gen Western fighters to having to make do with maybe refurbished 4th gen fighters for this decade and going for 5th gen next decade.

Since there is absolutely no real information about what or if anything BAF will order, at least this keeps this thread alive somewhat.


SpaceMan18 said:


> Either way I guess TFX so the only option , but we don't even have 4th gen fighters yet.
> 
> How do we expect these brain dead people to start thinking of 5th generation platforms
> 
> President did say we will eventually get 5th generation fighters




BAF has had 4th gen Mig-29s since 2001.
When the order was placed it was for 16 + 16 options.
BAF ended up with 8 in the end due to a change of government.

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## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> We just need a longer range and modern fighter , Gripens are good but BAf morons rejected it.



Why did BAF reject the Gripens??


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## SpaceMan18

ghost250 said:


> why dont u people take a break??!! previous 100 pages were about "baf kela pare naa,kisuh kine naa,amra moira jaitesii,myanmar dhokhol kore nitese..." ..same pechal over nd over again..i knw we all r disappointed with this sorry state of baf..but keep harping same thing over nd over again wont chng anythng..



You expect me to do some black magic and summon 4th gen fighters ? 

Nah we are talking to keep this thread alive , we are not just disappointed but concerned about our national security and the safety of our airspace which BAF clearly can't protect

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## Michael Corleone

Can we keep this thread inactive until further news? Have been debating this bs from 2017

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## Avicenna

Greetings from Myanmar BAF!






Don't wanna leave out felicitations to the BN!

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## Destranator

The way things are going, BN, BGB and Bangladesh Police will operate 4++ gen fighter jets before BAF.

Fun facts:
1. BAF has not signed one single contract for 4th gen fighters since this thread of 634 pages started.

2. The initial batch of MiG-29 pilots are almost all retired.

3. The MiG-29s are older than some of the junior officers serving BAF.


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## ghost250



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## fallstuff

So when are they going to buy some more training Jets ?

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## Michael Corleone

fallstuff said:


> So when are they going to buy some more training Jets ?


Soon pt6 have to be replaced 😂

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## UKBengali

For those who are interested in refurbished Gripens for BAF the below may be of interest - think South Africa would be interested in disposing of some of it's Gripens if it could find a buyer:









Saab AESA trial offers Gripen C/D users new upgrade path


Saab has begun promoting an active electronically scanned array antenna for its PS-05/A fighter radar, offering an upgrade option for operators of its Gripen C/D, and other legacy types.




www.flightglobal.com





*Saab AESA trial offers Gripen C/D users new upgrade path*
By Craig Hoyle28 April 2020

Save article
Saab has begun promoting an active electronically scanned array (AESA) antenna for its PS-05/A fighter radar, offering an upgrade option for operators of its Gripen C/D, and other legacy types.
During a roughly 90min debut flight aboard a Gripen D test aircraft conducted from the Swedish company’s Linkoping site on 8 April, the AESA sensor “collected data while detecting and tracking objects”, Saab says.




Source: Saab
New array was installed on Gripen D test aircraft
Anders Carp, head of the company’s aeronautics business area, describes these as having been “targets of opportunity” such as general aviation aircraft, due to a lack of commercial airliner activity during the coronavirus crisis.
“We had a very successful first flight, both in terms of capability and stability,” Carp says.
Future tests, to be conducted following data validation from the sensor’s airborne debut, will be expanded to incorporate “fighter targets”, he notes. In all, around 15 flights are planned over a period of three to four months.
Integration of the AESA array – which features more than 500 gallium nitride transmit/receive modules – required no alteration to the Gripen’s power or cooling provision, Carp says. “We’re just changing the array itself, and using exactly the same back-end as the [PS-05/A] Mk4” with some software updates, he notes.
“We have the possibility now to get the full radar range to use [MBDA’s] Meteor or similar [air-to-air] missiles,” Carp notes of the enhancement.
The availability of an ITAR-free AESA array offers a potential upgrade path for existing Gripen C/D operators, which in addition to the Swedish air force include the Czech Republic, Hungary, South Africa and Thailand.
As well as being a candidate for such updates, the new array will also be offered with Saab’s proposed Gripen Aggressor platform, which is intended to meet growing military demand for adversary training services.
“The Gripen is a fairly small aircraft compared to many of the competitors, which makes the size of the radar suitable for many other platforms,” Carp notes. This could potentially include advanced jet trainers, and even unmanned air vehicles, he suggests.
Carp points to the fighter AESA design as having drawn on Saab’s experience with developing other X-band sensors, including for the Giraffe 1X short-range ground-based air-defence radar. Its underlying technology could be scaled up to approaching an “Erieye-size” sensor for airborne ground surveillance tasks, he indicates.
“If there’s a customer that wants it now we’re ready to start production – we’re more or less ready to take orders,” Carp says.




Source: Peter Liander/Saab
Active electronically scanned array is ready for production orders
Saab has already delivered an array almost identical to the design flown in the Gripen to an undisclosed US military customer. The company last October announced its receipt of a contract to supply the system, but will not disclose the operator or platform type.
Saab’s AESA product will not compete with the Leonardo Raven ES-05 array installed on the airframer’s new-generation Gripen E, which is in production for Sweden and launch export buyer Brazil.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> For those who are interested in refurbished Gripens for BAF the below may be of interest - think South Africa would be interested in disposing of some of it's Gripens if it could find a buyer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saab AESA trial offers Gripen C/D users new upgrade path
> 
> 
> Saab has begun promoting an active electronically scanned array antenna for its PS-05/A fighter radar, offering an upgrade option for operators of its Gripen C/D, and other legacy types.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.flightglobal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Saab AESA trial offers Gripen C/D users new upgrade path*
> By Craig Hoyle28 April 2020
> 
> Save article
> Saab has begun promoting an active electronically scanned array (AESA) antenna for its PS-05/A fighter radar, offering an upgrade option for operators of its Gripen C/D, and other legacy types.
> During a roughly 90min debut flight aboard a Gripen D test aircraft conducted from the Swedish company’s Linkoping site on 8 April, the AESA sensor “collected data while detecting and tracking objects”, Saab says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Saab
> New array was installed on Gripen D test aircraft
> Anders Carp, head of the company’s aeronautics business area, describes these as having been “targets of opportunity” such as general aviation aircraft, due to a lack of commercial airliner activity during the coronavirus crisis.
> “We had a very successful first flight, both in terms of capability and stability,” Carp says.
> Future tests, to be conducted following data validation from the sensor’s airborne debut, will be expanded to incorporate “fighter targets”, he notes. In all, around 15 flights are planned over a period of three to four months.
> Integration of the AESA array – which features more than 500 gallium nitride transmit/receive modules – required no alteration to the Gripen’s power or cooling provision, Carp says. “We’re just changing the array itself, and using exactly the same back-end as the [PS-05/A] Mk4” with some software updates, he notes.
> “We have the possibility now to get the full radar range to use [MBDA’s] Meteor or similar [air-to-air] missiles,” Carp notes of the enhancement.
> The availability of an ITAR-free AESA array offers a potential upgrade path for existing Gripen C/D operators, which in addition to the Swedish air force include the Czech Republic, Hungary, South Africa and Thailand.
> As well as being a candidate for such updates, the new array will also be offered with Saab’s proposed Gripen Aggressor platform, which is intended to meet growing military demand for adversary training services.
> “The Gripen is a fairly small aircraft compared to many of the competitors, which makes the size of the radar suitable for many other platforms,” Carp notes. This could potentially include advanced jet trainers, and even unmanned air vehicles, he suggests.
> Carp points to the fighter AESA design as having drawn on Saab’s experience with developing other X-band sensors, including for the Giraffe 1X short-range ground-based air-defence radar. Its underlying technology could be scaled up to approaching an “Erieye-size” sensor for airborne ground surveillance tasks, he indicates.
> “If there’s a customer that wants it now we’re ready to start production – we’re more or less ready to take orders,” Carp says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Peter Liander/Saab
> Active electronically scanned array is ready for production orders
> Saab has already delivered an array almost identical to the design flown in the Gripen to an undisclosed US military customer. The company last October announced its receipt of a contract to supply the system, but will not disclose the operator or platform type.
> Saab’s AESA product will not compete with the Leonardo Raven ES-05 array installed on the airframer’s new-generation Gripen E, which is in production for Sweden and launch export buyer Brazil.



Well mate BAF is too blind to see any of these deals , although new Gripens seem good and idk if the Phillippines is buying some


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Well mate BAF is too blind to see any of these deals , although new Gripens seem good and idk if the Phillippines is buying some



I think best to stay away from new build Gripen Es.

They are expensive at 85 million US dollars per plane, will need to wait 3-4 years for first deliveries and BD is stuck with this plane till 2050s.

Refurbished Gripen C cost will be 30-40 million dollars, delivery within 12-18 months and airframe lifetime of around 15 years. Only disadvantage is they have less load capacity and range then Gripen E.

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## JohnWick

*Just Simple Information.*
PAF stationed 20 Sabres----14 squadron Tail choppers, The only sqd in East Pakistan---- Note now this squadron is equiped with JF-17 thunders block 2 and will be upgraded to block3 category with in two years----Which is just like a Gripen
1 AESA radar
2 WS-13 engine with 91kN Thrust
3 HMD
4 Single large screen cockpit (like that of F-35)
5 PL-15 with 400km range
6 Nuclear strike capable
7 IR integrated pod


ghost250 said:


> View attachment 679649
> View attachment 679650
> View attachment 679651


wonder if you can buy K8 which is off course a Pakistani trainer (don't tell me it is China made or Pakistan just a buyer of it) then why not jft????

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## mb444

JohnWick said:


> *Just Simple Information.*
> PAF stationed 20 Sabres----14 squadron Tail choppers, The only sqd in East Pakistan---- Note now this squadron is equiped with JF-17 thunders block 2 and will be upgraded to block3 category with in two years----Which is just like a Gripen
> 1 AESA radar
> 2 WS-13 engine with 91kN Thrust
> 3 HMD
> 4 Single large screen cockpit (like that of F-35)
> 5 PL-15 with 400km range
> 6 Nuclear strike capable
> 7 IR integrated pod
> 
> wonder if you can buy K8 which is off course a Pakistani trainer (don't tell me it is China made or Pakistan just a buyer of it) then why not jft????



Firstly why JFT rather than J10....

Secondly If we consider MM as the imediate enemy then fielding JFT against them we have the same problems with supply vis-a-vis MM and J10...

For MM we need western jets that does not have chinese strings for operational freedom

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## JohnWick

mb444 said:


> Firstly why JFT rather than J10....
> 
> Secondly If we consider MM as the imediate enemy then fielding JFT against them we have the same problems with supply vis-a-vis MM and J10...
> 
> For MM we need western jets that does not have chinese strings for operational freedom


jft is better than J-10 ....it is a false thought that J-10 has an edge over jft
Even in some areas JF-17 is superior than that of J-10
1 Dsi intakes
2 F-16 resembling dynamics
3 Western Avionics

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## mb444

JohnWick said:


> jft is better than J-10 ....it is a false thought that J-10 has an edge over jft
> Even in some areas JF-17 is superior than that of J-10
> 1 Dsi intakes
> 2 F-16 resembling dynamics
> 3 Western Avionics



Ok...but for BD our issue relating to MM and china connection remains and thus problematic.

If BAF opts for an option primarily focused on IAF then J10 is the only feasible option because of established relationship with china.

It is unlikely that JFT would be in the running. Geopolitical consideration would thump technical prowess of JFT.


Personally i would prefer EFT/J10 combination for BAF over F16/J10 combination...... but whatever..... BAF is very nearly a lost cause....

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## fallstuff

Michael Corleone said:


> Soon pt6 have to be replaced 😂



Wow such a relief, more trainers to the rescue ! 
I had a boss who used to say , " Everybody is getting ready to get ready ! " . 
BAF maybe, just maybe someday will buy some proper MRCAs !

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## SpaceMan18

fallstuff said:


> Wow such a relief, more trainers to the rescue !
> I had a boss who used to say , " Everybody is getting ready to get ready ! " .
> BAF maybe, just maybe someday will buy some proper MRCAs !



Eh I hope , Typhoons seem like the only option along with the J-10C 

BAF is truly a pathetic branch , while other countries are buying new 4th gen fighters or already have them. 

Bangladesh leaders over here are screaming " MUH HUH PEACEFUL COUNTRY"


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## Destranator

Eurofighter should rebrand Typhoon Tranche 3's as AJTs. BAF would then buy hundreds in a heartbeat.

Every district would get flooded with Typhoons.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Eurofighter should rebrand Typhoon Tranche 3's as AJTs. BAF would then buy hundreds in a heartbeat.
> 
> Every district would get flooded with Typhoons.



America : We have F22s and F35s as our fighters what's your ?

U.K : F-35s and Typhoons
Russia: T-50 and Su35s 
Japan : F-35s and F-15s 
China: J-20 and J-10Cs
India: Su30s and Rafaels 

Bangladesh : We have trainers.... 

Everyone :

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## UKBengali

OK, at least BD is getting progressively richer and so should be able to purchase a lot of fighter planes once the intention is actually there.

Let us see if some of the experts can help us here.

Guys say there was almost unlimited funds, how long would it take to quickly build a modern airforce of 4+/5 gen fighters from where BD is with just 3rd gen jets, no AWACs, 8 old 4th gen fighters but plenty of trainer planes of all types?
We are ignoring supply constraints in terms of geopolitics here but just looking at the practicalities of getting planes inducted, BAF trained to fly them and integrate them into an effective modern fighting force.

@LeGenD
@gambit
@dbc

Thank you in advance if you can spend some time writing down your opinions for the benefit of us non-professionals here.


PS - We are looking at around 160 fighter planes in total here.

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## Fighting Falcon 01

DalalErMaNodi said:


> They bought a Chinese vegetable cart and painted it green and white and tada Bob's your uncle, their own 'indigenous' jet....
> 
> 
> 
> Thankfully, they didn't add a cringy perso-arabic name this time.
> 
> 
> Epitome of an identity crisis.


That vegetable is a modern 4th gen fighter which we are manufacturing ( 58 percent from scratch) anyways we'll just watch the show when Bangladesh gets their butts kicked by Myanmars JF 17 with SD10As and link 17s ... while so called economic power gets their butts kicked and cry to daddy UN for help ... don't act smart peanut your fancy words don't matter what matters is you have a SHIT airforce and instead of shitting on others progress and success you whine about it ..... get yourself a real airforce first... btw you also rely on vegetable cart F7 lol so when is dhaka getting Myanmar's flag .. pathetic sense of superiority over nothing

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## SpaceMan18

Fighting Falcon 01 said:


> That vegetable is a modern 4th gen fighter which we are manufacturing ( 58 percent from scratch) anyways we'll just watch the show when Bangladesh gets their butts kicked by Myanmars JF 17 with SD10As and link 17s ... while so called economic power gets their butts kicked and cry to daddy UN for help ... don't act smart peanut your fancy words don't matter what matters is you have a SHIT airforce and instead of shitting on others progress and success you whine about it ..... get yourself a real airforce first... btw you also rely on vegetable cart F7 lol so when is dhaka getting Myanmar's flag .. pathetic sense of superiority over nothing



Face it bud JF-17s are 99% Chinese technology, Pakistan doesn't have experience in making fighters or its electrionics. 

Gripen is however also part Swedish,British and American 

Sweden alone still is ahead of Pakistan in terms of jet manufacturering 

So learn some actual facts that you guys are literally taking a Chinese fighter and calling it Pakistani. 

How fücking funny , at least we don't claim we made F-7s


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## alphapak

Come on guys stick to the topic!

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## BlackViking

Let's not derail the topic...ignore them


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## WebMaster

*Avoid off topic posts. I have deleted 50+ off topic posts with minimal warnings. *

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Face it bud JF-17s are 99% Chinese technology, Pakistan doesn't have experience in making fighters or its electrionics.
> 
> Gripen is however also part Swedish,British and American
> 
> Sweden alone still is ahead of Pakistan in terms of jet manufacturering
> 
> So learn some actual facts that you guys are literally taking a Chinese fighter and calling it Pakistani.
> 
> How fücking funny , at least we don't claim we made F-7s



JF-17 did have significant design inputs from PAC and are now manufactured in Pakistan. Although the systems are Chinese, Pakistanis have every right to call it Pakistani and celebrate their achievement.

JF-17 serves the purpose it was created for very well (i..e., serve as a force multiplier for PAF over a large air space). Just because it is no match to the unique threats that BAF face (tiny airspace, need to outmanoeuvr enemy high performance jets without second chances, etc..) does not mean it is a bad aircraft.

Let us focus on our own deficiencies and let Pakistanis worry about theirs.

At least they have fighter jets. Their JF-17s are covered by F-16s, network-connected and fire C-802 AShMs.

BAF has BAL (and I don't mean Awami League).

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> JF-17 did have significant design inputs from PAC and are now manufactured in Pakistan. Although the systems are Chinese, Pakistanis have every right to call it Pakistani and celebrate their achievement.
> 
> JF-17 serves the purpose it was created for very well (i..e., serve as a force multiplier for PAF over a large air space). Just because it is no match to the unique threats that BAF face (tiny airspace, need to outmanoeuvr enemy high performance jets without second chances, etc..) does not mean it is a bad aircraft.
> 
> Let us focus on our own deficiencies and let Pakistanis worry about theirs.
> 
> At least they have fighter jets.



True , but for us our dam Air Force is still pathetic cause they are delaying something they should have already bought. 

Navy over here planning LHDs while they don't even have next gen frigates or newer subs 

And the Air Force over here been throwing random fighter jet names out the window. 

We need to start buying stuff before it's too late , time goes by where our options get lower.


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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> True , but for us our dam Air Force is still pathetic cause they are delaying something they should have already bought.
> 
> Navy over here planning LHDs while they don't even have next gen frigates or newer subs
> 
> And the Air Force over here been throwing random fighter jet names out the window.
> 
> We need to start buying stuff before it's too late , time goes by where our options get lower.



Let us not drag BN down to BAF's level. Unlike BAF, BN is a military force which is making the most out of limited resources.
A fleet of 110 surface vessels, including 8 frigates and 6 corvettes, and 2 submarines coupled with local shipbuilding capabilities and a 1000-strong SEAL/UDT unit - BN is no pushover.

Just because a random FB page has posted about LHD does not mean BN has forgotten its priorities.

It is no easy task to design and build quality frigates.

BN has enough firepower to inflict serious damage to any navy if provided with air cover by an air force which we do not have at the moment.

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## gambit

UKBengali said:


> OK, at least BD is getting progressively richer and so should be able to purchase a lot of fighter planes once the intention is actually there.
> 
> Let us see if some of the experts can help us here.
> 
> Guys say there was almost unlimited funds,...


Never mind the hardware. Focus on the human element -- the pilot.

Send your pilots to train with the best Western air forces you can afford. Let your pilots outgrow with what you have, then they will be able to tell you what hardware you can buy. The issue is *NOT* the unlimited funds but what suits your needs.

The unlimited funds was the problem the Saudis had. They thought with their unlimited oil funds they could buy the best hardware -- like the F-15 -- and that would make them the best air force in the region. It did not. It is an open secret in the USAF/USN that whenever Saudi pilots fly with us, we lowered our standards so as not to offend these 'princes'. Not only that, their maintenance crew are filled with Westerners who are technically speaking -- mercenaries. Yes, under the Geneva Convention, an aircraft mechanic who is hired as a 'contractor' is technically a mercenary.

So grow your people before your hardware.

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## UKBengali

gambit said:


> Never mind the hardware. Focus on the human element -- the pilot.
> 
> Send your pilots to train with the best Western air forces you can afford. Let your pilots outgrow with what you have, then they will be able to tell you what hardware you can buy. The issue is *NOT* the unlimited funds but what suits your needs.
> 
> The unlimited funds was the problem the Saudis had. They thought with their unlimited oil funds they could buy the best hardware -- like the F-15 -- and that would make them the best air force in the region. It did not. It is an open secret in the USAF/USN that whenever Saudi pilots fly with us, we lowered our standards so as not to offend these 'princes'. Not only that, their maintenance crew are filled with Westerners who are technically speaking -- mercenaries. Yes, under the Geneva Convention, an aircraft mechanic who is hired as a 'contractor' is technically a mercenary.
> 
> So grow your people before your hardware.




Thanks but I think you have focused a little too much on my point about "almost unlimited funds".

I am fully cognizant that it is not just machine but also man that plays a critical role in an airforce.

Force multipliers like AWACS, UAVs and drones are important as well as fighter planes, bombs and missiles.

My question was more directed as from the base that BAF has now in terms of men and machine, how long would it take to build up an airforce of 160 fighter planes with 4+/5 gen fighters and make this an effective fighting force with men able to both fly the planes and develop a coherent tactics and strategy. Yes by all means first send BAF pilots to the West(US/Uk) for some years to learn both how to fly the planes and develop tactics and strategy if that is required and then decide on which planes and platforms to buy.

I am thinking that 15 years may suffice but would like the thoughts of some of the professionals like yourself here.

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## SpaceMan18

gambit said:


> Never mind the hardware. Focus on the human element -- the pilot.
> 
> Send your pilots to train with the best Western air forces you can afford. Let your pilots outgrow with what you have, then they will be able to tell you what hardware you can buy. The issue is *NOT* the unlimited funds but what suits your needs.
> 
> The unlimited funds was the problem the Saudis had. They thought with their unlimited oil funds they could buy the best hardware -- like the F-15 -- and that would make them the best air force in the region. It did not. It is an open secret in the USAF/USN that whenever Saudi pilots fly with us, we lowered our standards so as not to offend these 'princes'. Not only that, their maintenance crew are filled with Westerners who are technically speaking -- mercenaries. Yes, under the Geneva Convention, an aircraft mechanic who is hired as a 'contractor' is technically a mercenary.
> 
> So grow your people before your hardware.



I agree 

The Luftwaffe during ww2 had done tons of flight hours specifically training their pilots to superior levels. 

The Japanese Naval pilots also probably did the same , and both air forces were a force to be reckoned with. 

Just like the Arab Isreali war of Youm Kippur , the Israeli pilots always had better tactics and even with decent aircrafts they still managed to literally destroy all their Arab neighbors air forces. 

So yes the pilot matters, but again in this day and age where missiles are more advanced. 

We will need things like EuroFighter Typhoons and J-10cs


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## JohnWick

SpaceMan18 said:


> I agree
> 
> The Luftwaffe during ww2 had done tons of flight hours specifically training their pilots to superior levels.
> 
> The Japanese Naval pilots also probably did the same , and both air forces were a force to be reckoned with.
> 
> Just like the Arab Isreali war of Youm Kippur , the Israeli pilots always had better tactics and even with decent aircrafts they still managed to literally destroy all their Arab neighbors air forces.
> 
> So yes the pilot matters, but again in this day and age where missiles are more advanced.
> 
> We will need things like EuroFighter Typhoons and J-10cs


Why not J-35 the upcoming stealth aircraft of China????


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## SpaceMan18

JohnWick said:


> Why not J-35 the upcoming stealth aircraft of China????



Stolen American technology doesn't count , Myanmar monkeys will get those things. 

Tai TFX is going to be for us , even if it takes time.


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## dbc

UKBengali said:


> OK, at least BD is getting progressively richer and so should be able to purchase a lot of fighter planes once the intention is actually there.
> 
> Let us see if some of the experts can help us here.
> 
> Guys say there was almost unlimited funds, how long would it take to quickly build a modern airforce of 4+/5 gen fighters from where BD is with just 3rd gen jets, no AWACs, 8 old 4th gen fighters but plenty of trainer planes of all types?
> We are ignoring supply constraints in terms of geopolitics here but just looking at the practicalities of getting planes inducted, BAF trained to fly them and integrate them into an effective modern fighting force.
> 
> @LeGenD
> @gambit
> @dbc
> 
> Thank you in advance if you can spend some time writing down your opinions for the benefit of us non-professionals here.
> 
> 
> PS - We are looking at around 160 fighter planes in total here.



Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:

- defend disputed territory
- deter adversaries
- safe guard near shore and blue water resources
- extend your borders
- internal security 

Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.

Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.

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## UKBengali

dbc said:


> Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
> First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:
> 
> - defend disputed territory
> - deter adversaries
> - safe guard near shore and blue water resources
> - extend your borders
> - internal security
> 
> Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.
> 
> Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.





First, I dont think BAF has any chance to put up any defence against China.

So the needs are:

1. Dominate Myanmar airforce totally and be able to support the BD Army and Navy if it ever came to war with them.

2. Give the India Air Force a bloody nose if it ever thought of bullying BD and make them pay a high price that they think twice about pushing BD around.

3. Support BN to try to keep the sea-lanes open if IN(Indian Navy) tried to blockade BD seaborne trade. Again aware that this may not be possible but need enough capability to make Indian think twice to even try due to potential losses on their part.

4. There may be a need to capture the areas that Rohingya got expelled from if only as a temporary measure to force Myanmar to take them back.

Yes I agree about attracting the best talent as man is just as important as machine. AWAC, drones and UAVs are also important.

I am thinking that the force will need to be 160 fighter planes in total due to BD resources and what may be required to achieve my above stated 4 needs.

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## SpaceMan18

I 


dbc said:


> Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
> First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:
> 
> - defend disputed territory
> - deter adversaries
> - safe guard near shore and blue water resources
> - extend your borders
> - internal security
> 
> Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.
> 
> Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.



I agree , and we are training our men for that. 

Our threats are dealing with our neighbors , specifically Myanmar which is a unstable country which posses 4th gen fighters and always has been threatening us ever since the start. 

We have bought trainers and simulators to train our men , but our Air Force doesn't have modern 4th gen fighters yet.

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## PDF

SpaceMan18 said:


> I
> 
> 
> I agree , and we are training our men for that.
> 
> Our threats are dealing with our neighbors , specifically Myanmar which is a unstable country which posses 4th gen fighters and always has been threatening us ever since the start.
> 
> We have bought trainers and simulators to train our men , but our Air Force doesn't have modern 4th gen fighters yet.


You also need to keep in mind that an air force needs time to gain experience and developing tactics, doctrines after a new platform is introduced. 

For example, Indian Rafales just got inducted recently. They can fly them great but they would need a good couple of years to fully/optimally utilize the capabilities and operationalize into their strategy effectively.

Another hypothetical example would be that J17A with a decade of service would be better than Egyptian F16 Block 52s ( not having (AIM120) being newly inducted or a couple of years in service. 

Fighter pilots need to know they aircrafts as much as their wives/husbands. (Lol) . They need to play with them.

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## UKBengali

PDF said:


> You also need to keep in mind that an air force needs time to gain experience and developing tactics, doctrines after a new platform is introduced.
> 
> For example, Indian Rafales just got inducted recently. They can fly them great but they would need a good couple of years to fully/optimally utilize the capabilities and operationalize into their strategy effectively.
> 
> Another hypothetical example would be that J17A with a decade of service would be better than Egyptian F16 Block 52s ( not having (AIM120) being newly inducted or a couple of years in service.
> 
> Fighter pilots need to know they aircrafts as much as their wives/husbands. (Lol) . They need to play with them.





What is stopping you from pre-developing tactics and strategy while learning to fly the plane? Surely you get a good idea of the capabilities of the plane just by learning to fly it.

I know that some time will still be required after induction to properly develop tactics and strategy suited for local needs but would presume that some of this can be done before the plane is even inducted into BAF.

As an example say BAF buys refurbished Gripen Cs with AESA radar/Meteor and Erieye AWACS, it gets to know their capabilities while learning to fly them in Sweden. While doing this it develops how to integrate the Erieye and Gripen C to work together to get the best out of capabilities that Gripen C/AESA/Meteor combination can offer.

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## PDF

UKBengali said:


> What is stopping you from pre-developing tactics and strategy while learning to fly the plane? Surely you get a good idea of the capabilities of the plane just by learning to fly it.
> 
> I know that some time will still be required after induction to properly develop tactics and strategy suited for local needs but would presume that some of this can be done before the plane is even inducted into BAF.
> 
> As an example say BAF buys refurbished Gripen Cs with AESA radar/Meteor and Erieye AWACS, it gets to know their capabilities while learning to fly them in Sweden. While doing this it develops how to integrate the Erieye and Gripen C to work together to get the best out of capabilities that Gripen C/AESA/Meteor combination can offer.


If an air force is as efficient, then this can be achieved to certain extent. But, first, you need to know which platform will you be inducting exactly and with what local specifications, and you will need to do excercises along with other flying aircrafts, train other pilots (only a limited pilots get training abroad) for the now inducted aircraft, operationalize into the existing infrastructure including maintenance depots at airbases. I don't think BAF can carry on all this promptly. Some tasks are time dependant too so even increasing quantity of men won't do much. I doubt even PAF can do it. If it was USAF, I could bet on them. 

Interoperability, C3/4ISR integration and developing tactics after flying them in local environment for better assessment takes time.


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## JohnWick

SpaceMan18 said:


> Stolen American technology doesn't count , Myanmar monkeys will get those things.
> 
> Tai TFX is going to be for us , even if it takes time.


The only possible option for you is the HAL Tejas Ask your strategically ally and genetically cousin to give you some 2 sqd of HAL tejas ....
After that when it will be shot down by MAF jft then it will be also an absolute win for us....Free advertising of our jft.


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## mb444

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Flying Vegetable cart





JohnWick said:


> The only possible option for you is the HAL Tejas Ask your strategically ally and genetically cousin to give you some 2 sqd of HAL tejas ....
> After that when it will be shot down by MAF jft then it will be also an absolute win for us....Free advertising of our jft.



No that is not the only option available to us.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> What is stopping you from pre-developing tactics and strategy while learning to fly the plane? Surely you get a good idea of the capabilities of the plane just by learning to fly it.
> 
> I know that some time will still be required after induction to properly develop tactics and strategy suited for local needs but would presume that some of this can be done before the plane is even inducted into BAF.
> 
> As an example say BAF buys refurbished Gripen Cs with AESA radar/Meteor and Erieye AWACS, it gets to know their capabilities while learning to fly them in Sweden. While doing this it develops how to integrate the Erieye and Gripen C to work together to get the best out of capabilities that Gripen C/AESA/Meteor combination can offer.



Yes I agree , we can do that but the real issue is time 

If BAF buys fighters too late and adding training time with the time of getting the new fighters will put us in a place we don't wanna be in. 

We will definitely get tons of flight hours if we got Gripens , I think flying the Gripens cost less than the Su30s


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yes I agree , we can do that but the real issue is time
> 
> If BAF buys fighters too late and adding training time with the time of getting the new fighters will put us in a place we don't wanna be in.
> 
> We will definitely get tons of flight hours if we got Gripens , I think flying the Gripens cost less than the Su30s




12 Ex South African Gripen Cs refurbished with AESA radar, latest electronics by Sweden and with Meteor can be supplied within 12-18 months.

South Africa has 12 in permanent storage that it does not need.

BAF sends it's best pilots to learn how to fly the plane and then when they are in BD, they should be pretty much good to go.
You do not need advanced tactics and strategy to take on the MAF and their pilots will be in fear of such a potent plane in BAF hands.

Just these 12 Gripen Cs with AESA radar/upgraded electronics and Meteor can neutralise the whole MAF.

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## alphapak

JohnWick said:


> The only possible option for you is the HAL Tejas Ask your strategically ally and genetically cousin to give you some 2 sqd of HAL tejas ....
> After that when it will be shot down by MAF jft then it will be also an absolute win for us....Free advertising of our jft.



I don't think the IAF is confident using them, forget about selling them.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> 12 Ex South African Gripen Cs refurbished with AESA radar, latest electronics by Sweden and with Meteor can be supplied within 12-18 months.
> 
> South Africa has 12 in permanent storage that it does not need.
> 
> BAF sends it's best pilots to learn how to fly the plane and then when they are in BAF, they should be pretty much good to go.
> 
> Just these 12 Gripen Cs with AESA radar/upgraded electronics and electronics can neutralise the whole MAF.



Very interesting

Why did SA ground them ?

BD should jump on these.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Very interesting
> 
> Why did SA ground them ?
> 
> BD should jump on these.




They have no need of such an advanced fighter to fight any of their neighbours like Botswana and Zimbabwe.

They brought 28 in total and only 16 are in use.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> They have no need of such an advanced fighter to fight any of their neighbours like Botswana and Zimbabwe.
> 
> They brought 28 in total and only 16 are in use.



Ok so we can get them , but Bangladesh is being careful around U.S weapons cause of strings attached to them. 

Gripens use Murican engines so that's gonna be bad for us , Gripens are perfect just one issue I guess


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ok so we can get them , but Bangladesh is being careful around U.S weapons cause of strings attached to them.
> 
> Gripens use Murican engines so that's gonna be bad for us , Gripens are perfect just one issue I guess





Only issue is that BD would need US clearance as Gripen has US engine.

Remember that the GE engine inside the Gripen can go on for 30 years and so once the Gripens land in BD then the US cannot place sanctions as everything can be done by Sweden like maintenance and weapons supply of Meteor etc.

Due to cost/capabiilty I would like BAF to find as many countries that wish to dispose of their Gripen Cs and then get Sweden to refurbish them with AESA radar and new electronics. Around 32-40 would be ideal and more than a match for MAF.
Gripen C also has advantage of being dirt cheap to operate.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Only issue is that BD would need US clearance as Gripen has US engine.
> 
> Remember that the GE engine inside the Gripen can go on for 30 years and so once the Gripens land in BD then the US cannot place sanctions as everything can be done by Sweden like maintenance and weapons supply of Meteor etc.



If we get clearance from America since we have to sign two papers before we get these things , we can also get the AH-64Es too ! 

But again Bangladesh government scared if America tires to intervene in the future


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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ok so we can get them , but Bangladesh is being careful around U.S weapons cause of strings attached to them.
> 
> Gripens use Murican engines so that's gonna be bad for us , Gripens are perfect just one issue I guess




There will always be strings..... against MM i think we should be fine. 

J10 is to counter IAF, Gripen for MM...

Personally would prefer these to F16s...

BAF may have options but do they have the imagination to exploit them.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> There will always be strings..... against MM i think we should be fine.
> 
> J10 is to counter IAF, Gripen for MM...
> 
> Personally would prefer these to F16s...
> 
> BAF may have options but do they have the imagination to exploit them.



Nah they are too hörny for transport and trainer aircrafts


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> There will always be strings..... against MM i think we should be fine.
> 
> J10 is to counter IAF, Gripen for MM...
> 
> Personally would prefer these to F16s...
> 
> BAF may have options but do they have the imagination to exploit them.




Remember that once the US has given clearance and the Gripens are in BD, then the USA cannot do anything. The GE engine will last as long as the airframe does.

Sweden can refurbish the engine and supply weapons like Meteor.

Biggest bonus is they are really very cheap to operate and maintain - the cheapest 4+ gen fighter by some distance.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Remember that once the US has given clearance and the Gripens are in BD, then the USA cannot do anything. The GE engine will last as long as the airframe does.
> 
> Sweden can refurbish the engine and supply weapons like Meteor.
> 
> Biggest bonus is they are really very cheap to operate and maintain - the cheapest 4+ gen fighter by some distance.



BAF wanted old Gripens back then , but Sweden offered new ones and that's when BAF sadly rejected it


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## PDF

mb444 said:


> J10 is to counter IAF, Gripen for MM...


Why not J10C for both or Gripen for both?

If you want to run things efficiently and optimally, go for a single platform rather than duo unless your plan is to sign for more than three Squadron's worth of aircrafts.

Bangladesh doesn't have as complicated relationship with US as Pakistan does so even if you don't go with the F-16s, Gripen is fine. The latest version IMO is better than J10-CE for Bangladesh.
Though, Pakistan is inclined towards J-10 but that is because of our own factors, requirements and relationship with China.

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## mb444

PDF said:


> Why not J10C for both or Gripen for both?
> 
> If you want to run things efficiently and optimally, go for a single platform rather than duo unless your plan is to sign for more than three Squadron's worth of aircrafts.
> 
> Bangladesh doesn't have as complicated relationship with US as Pakistan does so even if you don't go with the F-16s, Gripen is fine. The latest version IMO is better than J10-CE for Bangladesh.
> Though, Pakistan is inclined towards J-10 but that is because of our own factors, requirements and relationship with China.




BD is not going to be entertain any war and damage its economy....

We potentially have two adversaries.... one is aligned to US and one to China.

As such we require two platform to have operational freedom.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> I'm curious what you think of Serniabat's speech? (From Oct 2019)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, it was fairly straight forward and honest.
> 
> Notably, the example of Singapore vs Sri Lanka. i.e. Awareness of other small nations having a strong air arm.
> 
> A different outcome if BAF was better equipped regarding 2017 Rohingya debacle. i.e. Myanmar wouldn't have tried it in the first place. i.e. deterrence.
> 
> And overall a rather honest assessment and public lament of the state of affairs of the BAF.
> 
> Thoughts?


Rohyinga matter is not related to BAF. MM did the same In the '90s & 80's when BAF had relative superiority over MAF. 

But military power would have hastened repatriation like it did in '90s. 



SpaceMan18 said:


> If we get clearance from America since we have to sign two papers before we get these things , we can also get the AH-64Es too !
> 
> But again Bangladesh government scared if America tires to intervene in the future


Only road block to BAF getting Gripen C is SAAB itself. They steadily refuses to sell them to BAF, actually did it multiple time. They were pushing the E variant all along. 
USA has no reason to block such a sell or sanction BD later on. Strategically BAF buying Gripen will be a win situation for them.

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Stolen American technology doesn't count ,


Dude, you should really be careful with how you word your posts. Don't fall for baits set up to start animosities with friendly nations on here.


dbc said:


> Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
> First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:
> 
> - defend disputed territory
> - deter adversaries
> - safe guard near shore and blue water resources
> - extend your borders
> - internal security
> 
> Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.
> 
> Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.



How effective do you think network-centric warfare would be for BAF given how tiny our airspace is? Do you agree with the notion that Bangladesh needs high performance jets to counter Indian and Bumese Su-30s, Rafales and MiG-29s WVR given the tight air space? Mind you, BAF jets will not be taking off until enemy jets are already detected to be approaching our airspace so the time window for reaction is very limited.


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## Destranator

Arthur said:


> Only road block to BAF getting Gripen C is SAAB itself. They steadily refuses to sell them to BAF, actually did it multiple time. They were pushing the E variant all along.
> USA has no reason to block such a sell or sanction BD later on. Actually strategically BAF buying Gripend will be a an win situation for them.


How do you know SAAB refused BAF?
Also, why on Earth would we want to get old Gripen C's?

I would love SAAB set up BAC and BAF from scratch for future operation and assembly of Gripens.


UKBengali said:


> 12 Ex South African Gripen Cs refurbished with AESA radar, latest electronics by Sweden and with Meteor can be supplied within 12-18 months.
> 
> South Africa has 12 in permanent storage that it does not need.
> 
> BAF sends it's best pilots to learn how to fly the plane and then when they are in BD, they should be pretty much good to go.
> You do not need advanced tactics and strategy to take on the MAF and their pilots will be in fear of such a potent plane in BAF hands.
> 
> Just these 12 Gripen Cs with AESA radar/upgraded electronics and Meteor can neutralise the whole MAF.


Yet another fantastic opportunity BAF imbeciles will not utilise.


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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Dude, you should really be careful with how you word your posts. Don't fall for baits set up to start animosities with friendly nations on here.
> 
> 
> How effective do you think network-centric warfare would be for BAF given how tiny our airspace is? Do you agree with the notion that Bangladesh needs high performance jets to counter Indian and Bumese Su-30s, Rafales and MiG-29s WVR given the tight air space? Mind you, BAF jets will not be taking off until enemy jets are already detected to be approaching our airspace so the time window for reaction is very limited.



Sure , but yeah SAAB would like to work with us but again it all depends on the government and BAF. 

In our aerospace and aeronautical university, there are already a lot of nations helping us and we can take Sweden in. 

We have to atleast make indigenous helicopters and drones along with trainers to get our engineers experience to eventually build 4th gen and future 5th generation fighters


Arthur said:


> Rohyinga matter is not related to BAF. MM did the same In the '90s & 80's when BAF had relative superiority over MAF.
> 
> But military power would have hastened repatriation like it did in '90s.
> 
> 
> Only road block to BAF getting Gripen C is SAAB itself. They steadily refuses to sell them to BAF, actually did it multiple time. They were pushing the E variant all along.
> USA has no reason to block such a sell or sanction BD later on. Actually strategically BAF buying Gripend will be a an win situation for them.



America plays dirty , so yes it can be a win win situation but again BAF is drunk so


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## Arthur

Destranator said:


> How do you know SAAB refused BAF?
> Also, why on Earth would we want to get old Gripen C's?
> 
> I would love SAAB set up BAC and BAF from scratch for future operation and assembly of Gripens.


It's already more than a decade old matter. BAF had fund issues & evaluated it for a bit. But SAAB wanted them to pitch in for the E. 

It was after that BAF went for the BGI's. Otherwise it would have been Gripen C & Super Albatross.

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## PDF

mb444 said:


> BD is not going to be entertain any war and damage its economy....
> 
> We potentially have two adversaries.... one is aligned to US and one to China.
> 
> As such we require two platform to have operational freedom.


I disagree with the deduction. Nevertheless, you would know better than me about your interests.

I would like to however say that there is some misunderstanding or mis-reading about U.S. The cautiousness is too much to the extend of phobia.

For those who are a bit skeptical, do remember that Pakistan being full in China's camp still shot the Indian jets last year using American aircrafts with American BVR AIM120. I don't foresee Bangladesh to have worse relationship with US than Pakistan ever. But, yea, there might be things I am not catering for.


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## Destranator

PDF said:


> I disagree with the deduction. Nevertheless, you would know better than me about your interests.
> 
> I would like to however say that there is some misunderstanding or mis-reading about U.S. The cautiousness is too much to the extend of phobia.
> 
> For those who are a bit skeptical, do remember that Pakistan being full in China's camp still shot the Indian jets last year using American aircrafts with American BVR AIM120. I don't foresee Bangladesh to have worse relationship with US than Pakistan ever. But, yea, there might be things I am not catering for.


The US Congress is a red tape behemoth. They can block supply of GE Engines under various pretexts. I too want a combo of J-10s and Gripens to form BAF's backbone.


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## PDF

Destranator said:


> The US Congress is a red tape behemoth. They can block supply of GE Engines under various pretexts. I too want a combo of J-10s and Gripens to form BAF's backbone.


Okay, and why not only Chinese?
BAF can also have a single platform i.e Typhoons if you have reservations from US and China.

Is having at least 2 different platforms a must?


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## mb444

PDF said:


> I disagree with the deduction. Nevertheless, you would know better than me about your interests.
> 
> I would like to however say that there is some misunderstanding or mis-reading about U.S. The cautiousness is too much to the extend of phobia.
> 
> For those who are a bit skeptical, do remember that Pakistan being full in China's camp still shot the Indian jets last year using American aircrafts with American BVR AIM120. I don't foresee Bangladesh to have worse relationship with US than Pakistan ever. But, yea, there might be things I am not catering for.




The strings are overblown....i agree with your position.....

I was trying to explain the two platform rationalle..... its offcourse extremely inefficient...

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## Destranator

PDF said:


> Okay, and why not only Chinese?
> BAF can also have a single platform i.e Typhoons if you have reservations from US and China.
> 
> Is having at least 2 different platforms a must?


The Chinese might refuse to supply spares and ammo in the event of conflict with Burma. The Rohingya crisis was a good wake up call for BD where China hung BD out to dry despite being strong allies up until that point.
Burma is strategically more important to China for gas supplies and port access.

Single platform "efficiency" will mean nothing if we run out of spares.

We have operational needs for 6-10 fighter squadrons. We cannot afford that many EFTs.

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## mb444

Arthur said:


> It's already more than a decade old matter. BAF had fund issues & evaluated it for a bit. But SAAB wanted them to pitch in for the E.
> 
> It was after that BAF went for the BGI's. Otherwise it would have been Gripen C & Super Albatross.



No dude..... 16 bgi cost less than $150m....i think it was $120mn or something....

It was stop gap solution yes but that descision had nothing to do with Gripen from what i recall....

BAF did not have the money for Gripen...


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## dbc

Destranator said:


> How effective do you think network-centric warfare would be for BAF given how tiny our airspace is? Do you agree with the notion that Bangladesh needs high performance jets to counter Indian and Bumese Su-30s, Rafales and MiG-29s WVR given the tight air space? Mind you, BAF jets will not be taking off until enemy jets are already detected to be approaching our airspace so the time window for reaction is very limited.



Network centric warfare is a well established doctrine and it is more relevant when the airspace is compressed. Because a _'tiny airspace' _compresses your reaction time and data from these connected assets / sensors will allow you to anticipate enemy actions better and respond more effectively.

By high performance I assume you mean 4.5 Gen then I agree. But the 4.5 Gen platforms are less effective when operating disconnected from the network. Put another way one squadron of network linked 4.5 Gen fighter is more effective than three squadrons of the same type.

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## PDF

dbc said:


> Network centric warfare is a well established doctrine and it is more relevant when the airspace is compressed. Because a _'tiny airspace' _compresses your reaction time and data from these connected assets / sensors will allow you to anticipate enemy actions better and respond more effectively.
> 
> By high performance I assume you mean 4.5 Gen then I agree. But the 4.5 Gen platforms are less effective when operating disconnected from the network. Put another way one squadron of network linked 4.5 Gen fighter is more effective than three squadrons of the same type.


You might not agree and I am bringing in Pakistan alot but, 27th Feb 2019 is great example of the result a net-centric C4ISR capability brings. PAF executed a successful counter-strike in a hostile airspace with a relatively large with potent aricrafts Airforce. But Indian AF issues of multiple assets of different origins lack of good interoperability costed them dearly. 
In my opinion, the only thing helping PAF against IAF is the lack of of net-centric warfare (or more so, weaker net-centric warfare capability) with a relatively worse operational planning. PAF is in deep trouble if IAF works on these two aspects.


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## SpaceMan18

dbc said:


> Network centric warfare is a well established doctrine and it is more relevant when the airspace is compressed. Because a _'tiny airspace' _compresses your reaction time and data from these connected assets / sensors will allow you to anticipate enemy actions better and respond more effectively.
> 
> By high performance I assume you mean 4.5 Gen then I agree. But the 4.5 Gen platforms are less effective when operating disconnected from the network. Put another way one squadron of network linked 4.5 Gen fighter is more effective than three squadrons of the same type.



That's why we need AWACS and Eletronic warfare to enhance our capabilities to engage an enemy quickly as possible. 

We do use data link and I don't think Myanmar is capable of jamming it


mb444 said:


> The strings are overblown....i agree with your position.....
> 
> I was trying to explain the two platform rationalle..... its offcourse extremely inefficient...



MRCA states the aircraft must have twin engines I think , the F-7 deal should not be merged with the MRCA deal 

MRCA will be twin engine aircrafts 
While F-7 replacements will be single engine 

BAF is making these decisions not me


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## dbc

PDF said:


> You might not agree and I am bringing in Pakistan alot but, 27th Feb 2019 is great example of the result a net-centric C4ISR capability brings. PAF executed a successful counter-strike in a hostile airspace with a relatively large with potent aricrafts Airforce. But Indian AF issues of multiple assets of different origins lack of good interoperability costed them dearly.
> In my opinion, the only thing helping PAF against IAF is the lack of of net-centric warfare (or more so, weaker net-centric warfare capability) with a relatively worse operational planning. PAF is in deep trouble if IAF works on these two aspects.



No I don't disagree. The IAF is not a a good yardstick to measure the PAF. I think you should compare yourself to the Turks or Israel - just IMHO.


SpaceMan18 said:


> That's why we need AWACS and Eletronic warfare to enhance our capabilities to engage an enemy quickly as possible.
> 
> We do use data link and I don't think Myanmar is capable of jamming it
> 
> 
> MRCA states the aircraft must have twin engines I think , the F-7 deal should not be merged with the MRCA deal
> 
> MRCA will be twin engine aircrafts
> While F-7 replacements will be single engine
> 
> BAF is making these decisions not me



There is no such thing as jam proof data link - except if you are hardwired into the physical network and not OTA. The best you can do is build (jam) resistance and resilience (multiple pathways) in your network.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1121016291649576









__ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1121006691650536

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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1121016291649576
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1121006691650536



For a second I thought the BAF got new MRCA jets ordered


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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1121016291649576
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1121006691650536



BAF can easily send AJT-qualified pilots to China/Sweden/US for Operational Conversion to J-10/Gripen/F-16 to fast track induction of new single engine fighters but no, they would rather thumb-twiddle to oblivion.

Every six months, more and more qualified pilots are going to retirement without their talents being utilised but who cares as long as Serniabat gets his joy rides on MiG-29s to shuttle to/from Dhaka.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> BAF can easily send AJT-qualified pilots to China/Sweden/US for Operational Conversion to J-10/Gripen/F-16 to fast track induction of new single engine fighters but no, they would rather thumb-twiddle to oblivion.
> 
> Every six months, more and more qualified pilots are going to retirement without their talents being utilised but who cares as long as Sernibat gets his joy rides on MiG-29s to shuttle to/from Dhaka.



We need some dam new leadership in the BAF 

UAE over here getting F-35s while we don't even have 4++ gen fighters , BAF making us look like püssies. 

My Nîggas in 1971 didn't die for our Air Force to be this shîtty

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> BAF can easily send AJT-qualified pilots to China/Sweden/US for Operational Conversion to J-10/Gripen/F-16 to fast track induction of new single engine fighters but no, they would rather thumb-twiddle to oblivion.
> 
> Every six months, more and more qualified pilots are going to retirement without their talents being utilised but who cares as long as Sernibat gets his joy rides on MiG-29s to shuttle to/from Dhaka.


Only 35 pilots this batch. What are you on about?

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Only 35 pilots this batch. What are you on about?


Although I am not talking about this batch specifically, 35 pilots in an AJT batch is a lot for an air force which operates less than 50 fighter jets.

How hard is it to train 20-30 pilots every year for Operational Conversion in supplier countries to fast track fighter induction?

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> We need some dam new leadership in the BAF
> 
> UAE over here getting F-35s while we don't even have 4++ gen fighters , BAF making us look like püssies.
> 
> My Nîggas in 1971 didn't die for our Air Force to be this shîtty


Here’s the funny part, UAE to get 50 f35 for 10.4 billion dollars, Kuwait bought 24 EFT for around 8 billion


Destranator said:


> Although I am not talking about this batch specifically, 35 pilots in an AJT batch is a lot for an air force which operates less than 50 fighter jets.
> 
> How hard is it to train 20-30 pilots every year for Operational Conversion in supplier countries to fast track fighter induction?


If they haven’t decided for sure yet then it would just be another way to waste money.

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Here’s the funny part, UAE to get 50 f35 for 10.4 billion dollars, Kuwait bought 24 EFT for around 8 billion
> 
> If they haven’t decided for sure yet then it would just be another way to waste money.



Europeans know they can scam the Arabs for more money lol , but for us they can't cause we ain't that rich.


----------



## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Here’s the funny part, UAE to get 50 f35 for 10.4 billion dollars, Kuwait bought 24 EFT for around 8 billion
> 
> If they haven’t decided for sure yet then it would just be another way to waste money.


Of course they would have to decide on platform first for which they should have by now.

We all know BAF will end up with more Chinese fighters regardless of what else they get. 
They could have easily inducted three squadrons of J-10s by now.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Of course they would have to decide on platform first for which they should have by now.
> 
> We all know BAF will end up with more Chinese fighters regardless of what else they get.
> They could have easily inducted three squadrons of J-10s by now.



j-10Cs are for the F-7 replacement deal , idk why BAF still operates those F-7 death coffins. 

I expect J-10Cs for sure , it's the easiest deal BAF will make and idk why their lazy àss ain't doing nothing but flying in rusty Mig-29s and rusty Fishbeds


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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> j-10Cs are for the F-7 replacement deal , idk why BAF still operates those F-7 death coffins.
> 
> I expect J-10Cs for sure , it's the easiest deal BAF will make and idk why their lazy àss ain't doing nothing but flying in rusty Mig-29s and rusty Fishbeds




F7 BGI are new bulids and definately not rusty. 

J10C also seems like a good option... there has been no international sales as yet which is an issue. 

BD needs to look at JF17 in my opinion also. There was an argument that JF17 was not very good because PLAF has not inducted it themselves. Well PAF is not bothering with J10 series and seems content with JF17. BAF needs to review the pros and cons. Both will have inherent advantages and disadvantages.

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## Shorisrip

The main reason the airforce hasn't gone the Chinese route as of yet is probably because Myanmar has now become the primary focus, instead of India since the Rohingya crisis. Whatever we induct (Chinese or Russian), they do it too. If we go the western route (if we can afford it), they won't be able to match that nor have the political clout to obtain them. Of course the backbone of the force will still be Chinese-origin planes, likely J10s.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> F7 BGI are new bulids and definately not rusty.
> 
> J10C also seems like a good option... there has been no international sales as yet which is an issue.
> 
> BD needs to look at JF17 in my opinion also. There was an argument that JF17 was not very good because PLAF has not inducted it themselves. Well PAF is not bothering with J10 series and seems content with JF17. BAF needs to review the pros and cons. Both will have inherent advantages and disadvantages.



jF-17s really? 

Our enemy Myanmar has it , why the heck do we want that instead of the J-10C ?


Shorisrip said:


> The main reason the airforce hasn't gone the Chinese route as of yet is probably because Myanmar has now become the primary focus, instead of India since the Rohingya crisis. Whatever we induct (Chinese or Russian), they do it too. If we go the western route (if we can afford it), they won't be able to match that nor have the political clout to obtain them. Of course the backbone of the force will still be Chinese-origin planes, likely J10s.



I agree , we are definitely getting a western platform knowing that as time goes on the political climate of South Asia is changing. 

With a western platform we can definitely be sure Myanmar won't try to copy us

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## JohnWick

SpaceMan18 said:


> jF-17s really?
> 
> Our enemy Myanmar has it , why the heck do we want that instead of the J-10C ?


JFT is the a 4.5 gen aircraft.... If J-10 C has any benefit PAF would have gone for it back in 2008 In fact J-10C is based on a rejected Israeli design.... We are using F-16 from 1980s and incorporated all our experience in the development of jft ....It is superior than F-16 block 15.... but as you said "JF-17s really?"
Do you have any Shame left? Saying against the first Muslim country developed fighter jet?.... Why you converged to live a life in hatred towards Pakistan and the only nuclear Muslim army in the world????


Shorisrip said:


> The main reason the airforce hasn't gone the Chinese route as of yet is probably because Myanmar has now become the primary focus, instead of India since the Rohingya crisis. Whatever we induct (Chinese or Russian), they do it too. If we go the western route (if we can afford it), they won't be able to match that nor have the political clout to obtain them. Of course the backbone of the force will still be Chinese-origin planes, likely J10s.


Even India is facing difficulties in the procurement of Rafale and the payments for it.... EFT is of somewhat same price as Rafale.... If F-16 is available anywhere in the world then the first buyer of it will be PAF....
Saab Gripen is Same as jft block 3 So what is your point?

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## Destranator

JohnWick said:


> JFT is the a 4.5 gen aircraft.... If J-10 C has any benefit PAF would have gone for it back in 2008 In fact J-10C is based on a rejected Israeli design.... We are using F-16 from 1980s and incorporated all our experience in the development of jft ....It is superior than F-16 block 15.... but as you said "JF-17s really?"



PAF and BAF needs are different. That does not mean JFT is bad.



> Do you have any Shame left? Saying against the first Muslim country developed fighter jet?.... Why you converged to live a life in hatred towards Pakistan and the only nuclear Muslim army in the world????


A fighter jet is a fighter jet. Does not matter whether it was developed by Muslims or Pastafarians.
You deserve no special treatment.

Funny how "Muslim" fighter jets are sold to Rohingya oppressors.

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## JohnWick

Destranator said:


> PAF and BAF needs are different. That does not mean JFT is bad.
> 
> 
> A fighter jet is a fighter jet. Does not matter whether it was developed by Muslims or Pastafarians.
> You deserve no special treatment.
> 
> Funny how "Muslim" fighter jets are sold to Rohingya oppressors.


Same Funny as someone had provided boats to Hindus soldiers the enemies of Muslims and Islam to cross the rivers of their own country against Muslim forces.... Wait isn't that you ! who provided the boats?

Well Nigeria is buying it Egypt is next so world is not confined to BD.

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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> jF-17s really?
> 
> Our enemy Myanmar has it , why the heck do we want that instead of the J-10C ?
> 
> 
> I agree , we are definitely getting a western platform knowing that as time goes on the political climate of South Asia is changing.
> 
> With a western platform we can definitely be sure Myanmar won't try to copy us



MM has JF17 block 1....

There are newer JF17s with better spec with western systems built in.

We should not reject anything offhand.

JF17 or J10 not withstanding PK input are chinese jets. It has advantages and disadvantages.... these should be reviewed prior to a descision.


JohnWick said:


> JFT is the a 4.5 gen aircraft.... If J-10 C has any benefit PAF would have gone for it back in 2008 In fact J-10C is based on a rejected Israeli design.... We are using F-16 from 1980s and incorporated all our experience in the development of jft ....It is superior than F-16 block 15.... but as you said "JF-17s really?"
> Do you have any Shame left? Saying against the first Muslim country developed fighter jet?.... Why you converged to live a life in hatred towards Pakistan and the only nuclear Muslim army in the world????
> 
> Even India is facing difficulties in the procurement of Rafale and the payments for it.... EFT is of somewhat same price as Rafale.... If F-16 is available anywhere in the world then the first buyer of it will be PAF....
> Saab Gripen is Same as jft block 3 So what is your point?


 You are jumping to conclusion that anyone raising a question regarding JF17 is anything to do it being anti pakistan. No BD here is anti pakistan.


JohnWick said:


> Same Funny as someone had provided boats to Hindus soldiers the enemies of Muslims and Islam to cross the rivers of their own country against Muslim forces.... Wait isn't that you ! who provided the boats?
> 
> Well Nigeria is buying it Egypt is next so world is not confined to BD.



This is unnecessary trolling....the same pakistani muslim soldiers also sought to wipe out BD intelligencia who were overwhelmingly muslims.

At times of war no one is an angel. But such issues hardly merit discussion in this thread.

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## SpaceMan18

JohnWick said:


> Same Funny as someone had provided boats to Hindus soldiers the enemies of Muslims and Islam to cross the rivers of their own country against Muslim forces.... Wait isn't that you ! who provided the boats?
> 
> Well Nigeria is buying it Egypt is next so world is not confined to BD.



What do you Pakistanis not know that JF-17 doesn't represent Pakistan , The jet design is Chinese the jet engine is Chinese resvere engineered Russian engine and the avonics is Chinese.

China controls the sell of JF-17s not Pakistan

Pakistan wasn't the nation who invented jet engines it was the U.K and the Germans made it better.

Radars were British too

Airplane invention was American


So Pakistan has nothing to be proud of kiddo , you guys didn't contribute much expect for paying money.

Pakistan has no experience in jet engines which are extremely difficult to make on your own and a poor country like Pakistan can't do it.

China still haven't even mastered indigenous jet engine technology let alone Pakistan 

It's like me bragging about a cookie which was made by my friend who uses ingredients from another guy.

Makes 0 fûcking sense

If the Pakistanis could of made the JF-17s on its own it wouldn't need China


----------



## The Ronin

https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4181.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2_juGBsHCuC2u9xiaSQ0fV6hcn86Y3jT2A5UmAUShH-XWDqQk1MK8DHzU

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4181.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2_juGBsHCuC2u9xiaSQ0fV6hcn86Y3jT2A5UmAUShH-XWDqQk1MK8DHzU
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 685150







What a slap in the face for those who claim that F-7MBs are retired.

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## LKJ86

JohnWick said:


> If J-10 C has any benefit PAF would have gone for it back in *2008*


J-10C began to serve in PLAAF in about 2015.

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## Destranator

LKJ86 said:


> J-10C began to serve in PLAAF in about 2014.


Almighty PAC headed by @JohnWick invented JFT and have been generous enough to share the technology with CAC. 
If PAC wished, they could have produced J-10C back in 2008. 
China should be grateful for PAC's contribution towards developing the Chinese Aviation industry.

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## LKJ86

Destranator said:


> Almighty PAC invented JFT and have been generous enough to share the technology with CAC.
> If PAC wished, they could have produced J-10C back in 2008.
> China should be grateful for PAC's contribution towards developing the Chinese Aviation industry.


----------



## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4181.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2_juGBsHCuC2u9xiaSQ0fV6hcn86Y3jT2A5UmAUShH-XWDqQk1MK8DHzU
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 685150



BAF worlds top aerobatics team

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## JohnWick

SpaceMan18 said:


> What do you Pakistanis not know that JF-17 doesn't represent Pakistan , The jet design is Chinese the jet engine is Chinese resvere engineered Russian engine and the avonics is Chinese.
> 
> China controls the sell of JF-17s not Pakistan


Here you show your ignorance again....
JF-17 design is borrowed from Russia mig-29 and Its engine is RD-93 which is also a Russian The programming language is C++ which is a universal one not specific Chinese programming languages which is used in their aircrafts....The Avionics are not chinese also i.e Aselsan Pod
The assurance for the delivery of jft to Nigeria is given By the Pak Govt to the Nigerian Govt not Chinese.


SpaceMan18 said:


> Pakistan has no experience in jet engines which are extremely difficult to make on your own and a poor country like Pakistan can't do it.
> 
> China still haven't even mastered indigenous jet engine technology let alone Pakistan
> 
> It's like me bragging about a cookie which was made by my friend who uses ingredients from another guy.
> 
> Makes 0 fûcking sense
> 
> If the Pakistanis could of made the JF-17s on its own it wouldn't need China



JF-17 is just a start we are building 5th gen Stealth jet under project AZM on our own....
JF-17 is Totally made in Pakistan PAF.Our air force is the only air force which has thousands of hours of flying it in this world but who I am telling this???? A Bangladeshi Citizen Whom country didn't have have any proper 4th gen plane l

Your only try is to spit on Moon and Star of Pakistan but Whenever a person tries to spit on moon and star, Spit falls on nothing except on its own Face.... So please don't act like a coward !

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> View attachment 685165
> 
> What a slap in the face for those who claim that F-7MBs are retired.


Weird because cannon is interchangeable between the models


----------



## JohnWick

LKJ86 said:


> J-10C began to serve in PLAAF in about 2015.
> View attachment 685168


lol so called it a J-10 B or A or Z It was still the same J-10 based on same rejected israeli IAI



LAVI
....PAF examined it thoroughly and a stock of files sent on the faults in J-10 to the Chinese Government by the PAF....
These all are on the record.... Persistent Gen Musharraf even visited China specially for this procurement....And After sitting in both the cockpits of J-10 and jft his word are
"JF-17 looks far more advanced than J-10 from inside cockpit! "


Destranator said:


> Almighty PAC headed by @JohnWick invented JFT and have been generous enough to share the technology with CAC.
> If PAC wished, they could have produced J-10C back in 2008.
> China should be grateful for PAC's contribution towards developing the Chinese Aviation industry.


I know it hurts you inside that you have an air force having less aircraft than US aircraft carrier.... It was the same J-10 having the same design Same cockpit back in 2008 when PAF officials sent a Stock of files regarding the issues in J-10
When are you starting a organization named BAC or Bhangabandu aircraft manufacturers?
even we have one working day and night and busy in delivering the orders
What a pity !

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## LKJ86

JohnWick said:


> lol so called it a J-10 B or A or Z It was still the same J-10 based on same rejected israeli IAL LAVI


So, what does J-10 share in common with LAVI?


JohnWick said:


> "JF-17 looks far more advanced than J-10 from inside cockpit! "


Can you provide the source? It would be very much appreciated.


----------



## JohnWick

LKJ86 said:


> So, what does J-10 share in common with LAVI?
> 
> Can you provide the source? It would be very much appreciated.


These are all on record kindly do some search

You can see it with your own eyes
J-10




jft

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## LKJ86

JohnWick said:


> "JF-17 looks far more advanced than J-10 from inside cockpit! "


Can you provide the source? It would be very much appreciated.




JohnWick said:


> These are all on record kindly do some search
> 
> You can see it with your own eyes
> J-10
> View attachment 685174
> 
> jft
> View attachment 685175


Maybe that pic of so-called J-10 is much older than JF-17.

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## SpaceMan18

JohnWick said:


> Here you show your ignorance again....
> JF-17 design is borrowed from Russia mig-29 and Its engine is RD-93 which is also a Russian The programming language is C++ which is a universal one not specific Chinese programming languages which is used in their aircrafts....The Avionics are not chinese also i.e Aselsan Pod
> The assurance for the delivery of jft to Nigeria is given By the Pak Govt to the Nigerian Govt not Chinese.
> 
> 
> JF-17 is just a start we are building 5th gen Stealth jet under project AZM on our own....
> JF-17 is Totally made in Pakistan PAF.Our air force is the only air force which has thousands of hours of flying it in this world but who I am telling this???? A Bangladeshi Citizen Whom country didn't have have any proper 4th gen plane l
> 
> Your only try is to spit on Moon and Star of Pakistan but Whenever a person tries to spit on moon and star, Spit falls on nothing except on its own Face.... So please don't act like a coward !



Dumbàss you don't understand how expensive it is to make a stealth fighter and how much experienced engineers you need to make on.

The F-35 program costed 400 billion dollars which is bigger than Pakistans whole GDP.

And no I don't have to respect Pakistan since they have not contributed to any modern inventions nor any big idea.

You shît on us , which is ironic cûnt cause everyone calls you guys terrorists which they don't call us.


You are proud of a shîtty nation who is the number 1 country for terriosm and the same country who hid Osama Bin Laden


Keep shîtting on us , at least we aren't in debt to both America and China while having a Stone Age mentality people who kills others for not being Muslim.


The British Empire has actual bragging rights , not Pakistan

Just because we don't have a stupid 4th gen fighter doesn't make us backward like you 

We have a better and bigger economy than Pakistan which is ironic cause they are a bigger nation. 

You guys lost in 71 and lost your whole nation to America and China 

Here's your L inferior man 

Last time I checked America has a flag on the moon while Pakistan has a moon on their flag 


Clearly shows which nation is backward


----------



## Shorisrip

SpaceMan18 said:


> Dumbàss you don't understand how expensive it is to make a stealth fighter and how much experienced engineers you need to make on.
> 
> The F-35 program costed 400 billion dollars which is bigger than Pakistans whole GDP.
> 
> And no I don't have to respect Pakistan since they have not contributed to any modern inventions nor any big idea.
> 
> You shît on us , which is ironic cûnt cause everyone calls you guys terrorists which they don't call us.
> 
> 
> You are proud of a shîtty nation who is the number 1 country for terriosm and the same country who hid Osama Bin Laden
> 
> 
> Keep shîtting on us , at least we aren't in debt to both America and China while having a Stone Age mentality people who kills others for not being Muslim.
> 
> 
> The British Empire has actual bragging rights , not Pakistan
> 
> Just because we don't have a stupid 4th gen fighter doesn't make us backward like you
> 
> We have a better and bigger economy than Pakistan which is ironic cause they are a bigger nation.
> 
> You guys lost in 71 and lost your whole nation to America and China
> 
> Here's your L inferior man
> 
> Last time I checked America has a flag on the moon while Pakistan has a moon on their flag
> 
> 
> Clearly shows which nation is backward



Bhai, better to just ignore trolls.

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## SpaceMan18

Shorisrip said:


> Bhai, better to just ignore trolls.



It's alright Bhai , looks like they haven't learned from 71 

Why can't we ban his àss from this thread , no one likes him here

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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> View attachment 685165
> 
> What a slap in the face for those who claim that F-7MBs are retired.


8-10 mb's are still flying


----------



## JohnWick

SpaceMan18 said:


> Dumbàss you don't understand how expensive it is to make a stealth fighter and how much experienced engineers you need to make on.
> 
> The F-35 program costed 400 billion dollars which is bigger than Pakistans whole GDP.
> 
> And no I don't have to respect Pakistan since they have not contributed to any modern inventions nor any big idea.
> 
> You shît on us , which is ironic cûnt cause everyone calls you guys terrorists which they don't call us.
> 
> 
> You are proud of a shîtty nation who is the number 1 country for terriosm and the same country who hid Osama Bin Laden
> 
> 
> Keep shîtting on us , at least we aren't in debt to both America and China while having a Stone Age mentality people who kills others for not being Muslim.
> 
> 
> The British Empire has actual bragging rights , not Pakistan
> 
> Just because we don't have a stupid 4th gen fighter doesn't make us backward like you
> 
> We have a better and bigger economy than Pakistan which is ironic cause they are a bigger nation.
> 
> You guys lost in 71 and lost your whole nation to America and China
> 
> Here's your L inferior man
> 
> Last time I checked America has a flag on the moon while Pakistan has a moon on their flag
> 
> 
> Clearly shows which nation is backward


Please don't act like a goon .... We have already MashaaAllah successfully developed the nuclear warheads....Already tested 5 of them........People like you were also saying that it is impossible....Even the creation of Pakistan was impossible according to some people like you.... We are not a terrorist state even we defeated terrorism.... It is just a false propagandas labelled against Pakistan and the Muslims....Cz who wants the muslim with the nuclear weapons....You were saying about Science and technology....1969 When USA was hosting flag over Moon Look what we were doing? we were fighting with Mukti Bahini Terrorists in Forests Millions of Dollars which were wasted ....many Dollars to be used on progress were wasted to fight a civil war with you....After that we were involved in Cold War....And after 9/11 we were engaged in The War on terror....At least we are not an Indian Colony like you.... Regarding 5th gen plane I can assure you it well be done soon with the help of Allah Almighty....like in the case of becoming the Nuclear power....Wait Sometime we will tell What an economy looks like....But until then keep burning.


SpaceMan18 said:


> It's alright Bhai , looks like they haven't learned from 71
> 
> Why can't we ban his àss from this thread , no one likes him here


Please don't cry by using WORDS like *** dumazz fkin I can use them too but not doing it due to some decorum....Afterall you are So a called Muslim too

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## SpaceMan18

JohnWick said:


> Please don't act like a goon .... We have already MashaaAllah successfully developed the nuclear warheads....Already tested 5 of them........People like you were also saying that it is impossible....Even the creation of Pakistan was impossible according to some people like you.... We are not a terrorist state even we defeated terrorism.... It is just a false propagandas labelled against Pakistan and the Muslims....Cz who wants the muslim with the nuclear weapons....You were saying about Science and technology....1969 When USA was hosting flag over Moon Look what we were doing? we were fighting with Mukti Bahini Terrorists in Forests Millions of Dollars which were wasted ....many Dollars to be used on progress were wasted to fight a civil war with you....After that we were involved in Cold War....And after 9/11 we were engaged in The War on terror....At least we are not an Indian Colony like you.... Regarding 5th gen plane I can assure you it well be done soon with the help of Allah Almighty....like in the case of becoming the Nuclear power....Wait Sometime we will tell What an economy looks like....But until then keep burning.
> 
> Please don't cry by using WORDS like *** dumazz fkin I can use them too but not doing it due to some decorum....Afterall you are So a called Muslim too



Shouldn't haven't oppressed us if you guys couldn't fight to win the war 

We aren't an Indian colony cause we are moving away from them as you see 

War isn't an excuse to be not advanced , North Korea has nukes so it isn't impressive. 

India fought in 71 too , and they a probe around Mars while Pakistan gave up a long time ago. 

It clearly shows which nations are progressive 

And again Bangaldesh is secular


----------



## mb444

Destranator said:


> Almighty PAC headed by @JohnWick invented JFT and have been generous enough to share the technology with CAC.
> If PAC wished, they could have produced J-10C back in 2008.
> China should be grateful for PAC's contribution towards developing the Chinese Aviation industry.


I do not think thats entirely fair. PAF has something that PLAN do not. Pilots who had taken active part in wars.... primarily arab israeli....they have also had experience againt russians.

These knowledge went into JF17. 

Whilst technically PAF may not have had significant input it would be silly not to recognise PAF input or to put JF17 down. These endless back and forth does not help advance conversation.

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## Michael Corleone

Bhais 
Ei bokachoda sathe kotha boilen na
O nijeke bilati mone kore 😂

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## mb444

BlackViking said:


> 8-10 mb's are still flying



The old f7s are indeed flying and the BGIs are still new


----------



## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> Dumbàss you don't understand how expensive it is to make a stealth fighter and how much experienced engineers you need to make on.
> 
> The F-35 program costed 400 billion dollars which is bigger than Pakistans whole GDP.
> 
> And no I don't have to respect Pakistan since they have not contributed to any modern inventions nor any big idea.
> 
> You shît on us , which is ironic cûnt cause everyone calls you guys terrorists which they don't call us.
> 
> 
> You are proud of a shîtty nation who is the number 1 country for terriosm and the same country who hid Osama Bin Laden
> 
> 
> Keep shîtting on us , at least we aren't in debt to both America and China while having a Stone Age mentality people who kills others for not being Muslim.
> 
> 
> The British Empire has actual bragging rights , not Pakistan
> 
> Just because we don't have a stupid 4th gen fighter doesn't make us backward like you
> 
> We have a better and bigger economy than Pakistan which is ironic cause they are a bigger nation.
> 
> You guys lost in 71 and lost your whole nation to America and China
> 
> Here's your L inferior man
> 
> Last time I checked America has a flag on the moon while Pakistan has a moon on their flag
> 
> 
> Clearly shows which nation is backward



Osama in Pak is the same as WMD's in Iraq. As for the economy Bangladesh is slightly
ahead of Pak but you are acting like you have over taken America. Lol.

You talk about Pak being number 1 country for terrorism, I think you watch Indian
media abit too much.

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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> Osama in Pak is the same as WMD's in Iraq. As for the economy Bangladesh is slightly
> ahead of Pak but you are acting like you have over taken America. Lol.
> 
> You talk about Pak being number 1 country for terrorism, I think you watch Indian
> media abit too much.



No , even slightly ahead is still better cause we're talking about a smaller country vs a bigger one. And no I am not acting like I have over taken America cause all you're doing to defend yourself is put words in my mouth. 

And no I won't watch shîtty Indian media cause all you guys can do is scream " American or Indian propaganda " 

Shouldn't haven't worked with the Americans then 

Pakistani nationalism is not logical as Japanese or British nationalism 

Cause the other two has something to be proud of or many


----------



## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> No , even slightly ahead is still better cause we're talking about a smaller country vs a bigger one. And no I am not acting like I have over taken America cause all you're doing to defend yourself is put words in my mouth.
> 
> And no I won't watch shîtty Indian media cause all you guys can do is scream " American or Indian propaganda "
> 
> Shouldn't haven't worked with the Americans then
> 
> Pakistani nationalism is not logical as Japanese or British nationalism
> 
> Cause the other two has something to be proud of or many



Who the hell are the Americans to call others terrorists when they have killed
millions themselves. How many wars have they caused?

Yes Bangladesh is smaller than Pak but that does not mean Bangladesh will
lead Pak forever in economy. We will see in the next 5 years the rise of Pakistan
inshallah.


----------



## Imran Khan

@SpaceMan18 not every 5th gen fighter program is like f-35 costly

SU-57 fgfa program cost - 8 to10 bn$
j-20 FGFA program cost - 4.4bn$
j-31 FGFA program cost - 3.5bn$

b-2 bomber program cost 44bn$
even F-22 raptor program cost was 67bn$

f-35 went too far as resources was not only wasted but multi countries involvement make it too expensive VOTL also make it too much expensive .


----------



## JohnWick

Imran Khan said:


> @SpaceMan18 not every 5th gen fighter program is like f-35 costly
> 
> SU-57 fgfa program cost - 8 to10 bn$
> j-20 FGFA program cost - 4.4bn$
> j-31 FGFA program cost - 3.5bn$
> 
> b-2 bomber program cost 44bn$
> even F-22 raptor program cost was 67bn$
> 
> f-35 went too far as resources was not only wasted but multi countries involvement make it too expensive VOTL also make it too much expensive .


But @SpaceMan18 only knows about 3rd gen junk which his air force flies....


alphapak said:


> Who the hell are the Americans to call others terrorists when they have killed
> millions themselves. How many wars have they caused?
> 
> Yes Bangladesh is smaller than Pak but that does not mean Bangladesh will
> lead Pak forever in economy. We will see in the next 5 years the rise of Pakistan
> inshallah.


Bangladesh will be left far behind Cz when CPEC will start in 2027....our one week trade will be far greater than the whole month trade of BD.... Obviously all the exports of China to the middle east will be going by this route....But let @SpaceMan18 enjoy few more years.


----------



## alphapak

JohnWick said:


> Bangladesh will be left far behind Cz when CPEC will start in 2027....our one week trade will be far greater than the whole month trade of BD.... Obviously all the exports of China to the middle east will be going by this route....But let @SpaceMan18 enjoy few more years.



The only reason Bangladesh overtook Pak is because Us/Nato plus India and Israel have
been waging a war against Pak since 2005, then we had the earthquake (2005) and floods (2010)
which hit the economy. 

Alhamdulillah we have got through this phase and now with new leadership Pak is on the rise.

There is a reason why US/Nato are trying to wage proxy wars and trying to bring down Pak, Turkey
and Iran.

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## Imran Khan

alphapak said:


> The only reason Bangladesh overtook Pak is because Us/Nato plus India and Israel have
> been waging a war against Pak since 2005, then we had the earthquake (2005) and floods (2010)
> which hit the economy.
> 
> Alhamdulillah we have got through this phase and now with new leadership Pak is on the rise.
> 
> There is a reason why US/Nato are trying to wage proxy wars and trying to bring down Pak, Turkey
> and Iran.


and PPP keep us behind with not making enough power generation plus not issueing 3g 4g licenses and many more they were curse . remember railway minister crying on tv and said countries like afghanistan and saudia have no train they also survive . it was total 5 years waste . that bite us hard

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## alphapak

Imran Khan said:


> and PPP keep us behind with not making enough power generation plus not issueing 3g 4g licenses and many more they were curse . remember railway minister crying on tv and said countries like afghanistan and saudia have no train they also survive . it was total 5 years waste . that bite us hard



I forgot to mention the mega corruption of Nawaz and Zardari. The dark days are over
for Pak, time has come to rise like they were doing in the 60's.


----------



## SpaceMan18

JohnWick said:


> But @SpaceMan18 only knows about 3rd gen junk which his air force flies....
> 
> Bangladesh will be left far behind Cz when CPEC will start in 2027....our one week trade will be far greater than the whole month trade of BD.... Obviously all the exports of China to the middle east will be going by this route....But let @SpaceMan18 enjoy few more years.



At least our girls won't get blown up by terriosts 

2027 ? dude we will literally become a middle income country with a better standard of living than Pakistan.

3rd gen junk ? PAF flies the same shît

You Pakis are low IQ as HÈLL , you're dreaming of a developed Pakistan when everyone in the world even a little Japanese child knows that will never happen.


how funny a nation who's working with a anti Muslim nation who puts Muslims into concentration camps is gonna develop a Muslim nation ?

Buddy keep trolling , Pakistan will never be a superpower

Elon Musk will put humans on Mars by 2027 , while Pakistan will still be nothing

Truly shows the differences , we ain't bragging you are

So shut your mouth and accept that your third world Muslim nation isn't much

There hasn't been a SINGLE Muslim nation who has developed yet


alphapak said:


> The only reason Bangladesh overtook Pak is because Us/Nato plus India and Israel have
> been waging a war against Pak since 2005, then we had the earthquake (2005) and floods (2010)
> which hit the economy.
> 
> Alhamdulillah we have got through this phase and now with new leadership Pak is on the rise.
> 
> There is a reason why US/Nato are trying to wage proxy wars and trying to bring down Pak, Turkey
> and Iran.



Blaming America for your leadership ? 

This is truly pathetic 


alphapak said:


> I forgot to mention the mega corruption of Nawaz and Zardari. The dark days are over
> for Pak, time has come to rise like they were doing in the 60's.



The British still says stuff like " The Sun never sets on the British Empire " 

The Russians still talk about bringing back the Soviet times 

The Japanese still wish for the time of Imperial Japan 

Turks still wish for the Ottaman Empire 

But Pakistan ? Pakistan 60s huh 

The other empires have conquered , but Pakistan really come on ?
Enough derailing the thread , don't comment here unless it's about the BAF

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## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> At least our girls won't get blown up by terriosts
> 
> 2027 ? dude we will literally become a middle income country with a better standard of living than Pakistan.
> 
> 3rd gen junk ? PAF flies the same shît
> 
> You Pakis are low IQ as HÈLL , you're dreaming of a developed Pakistan when everyone in the world even a little Japanese child knows that will never happen.
> 
> 
> how funny a nation who's working with a anti Muslim nation who puts Muslims into concentration camps is gonna develop a Muslim nation ?
> 
> Buddy keep trolling , Pakistan will never be a superpower
> 
> Elon Musk will put humans on Mars by 2027 , while Pakistan will still be nothing
> 
> Truly shows the differences , we ain't bragging you are
> 
> So shut your mouth and accept that your third world Muslim nation isn't much
> 
> There hasn't been a SINGLE Muslim nation who has developed yet
> 
> 
> Blaming America for your leadership ?
> 
> This is truly pathetic
> 
> 
> The British still says stuff like " The Sun never sets on the British Empire "
> 
> The Russians still talk about bringing back the Soviet times
> 
> The Japanese still wish for the time of Imperial Japan
> 
> Turks still wish for the Ottaman Empire
> 
> But Pakistan ? Pakistan 60s huh
> 
> The other empires have conquered , but Pakistan really come on ?



I am not blaming America for the for our leadership, I am just saying how many
countries they have bombed then they call others terrorists.

As for your girls not getting blown up by terrorists, that is because your girl Shamima Begum
joined the terrorist groups in Syria. So many Bangalis from the UK joined ISIS from UK and 
Europe.

You talk about Pakistani's having low IQ but what about Bangladeshi's? You talk about China
being anti muslim but if they invested 10 billion dollars and sold you J10's then you will bend
over backwards to accommodate them.

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> At least our girls won't get blown up by terriosts
> 
> 2027 ? dude we will literally become a middle income country with a better standard of living than Pakistan.
> 
> 3rd gen junk ? PAF flies the same shît
> 
> You Pakis are low IQ as HÈLL , you're dreaming of a developed Pakistan when everyone in the world even a little Japanese child knows that will never happen.
> 
> 
> how funny a nation who's working with a anti Muslim nation who puts Muslims into concentration camps is gonna develop a Muslim nation ?
> 
> Buddy keep trolling , Pakistan will never be a superpower
> 
> Elon Musk will put humans on Mars by 2027 , while Pakistan will still be nothing
> 
> Truly shows the differences , we ain't bragging you are
> 
> So shut your mouth and accept that your third world Muslim nation isn't much
> 
> There hasn't been a SINGLE Muslim nation who has developed yet
> 
> 
> Blaming America for your leadership ?
> 
> This is truly pathetic
> 
> 
> The British still says stuff like " The Sun never sets on the British Empire "
> 
> The Russians still talk about bringing back the Soviet times
> 
> The Japanese still wish for the time of Imperial Japan
> 
> Turks still wish for the Ottaman Empire
> 
> But Pakistan ? Pakistan 60s huh
> 
> The other empires have conquered , but Pakistan really come on ?
> Enough derailing the thread , don't comment here unless it's about the BAF





alphapak said:


> I am not blaming America for the for our leadership, I am just saying how many
> countries they have bombed then they call others terrorists.
> 
> As for your girls not getting blown up by terrorists, that is because your girl Shamima Begum
> joined the terrorist groups in Syria. So many Bangalis from the UK joined ISIS from UK and
> Europe.
> 
> You talk about Pakistani's having low IQ but what about Bangladeshi's? You talk about China
> being anti muslim but if they invested 10 billion dollars and sold you J10's then you will bend
> over backwards to accommodate them.


You both are struggling for stupid cause. Both are shitholes, one pretends they’re military superpower and other pretends to be rich. You both live abroad move on or go to your respective countries for three months, you won’t be able to tolerate 1.

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## PDF

Can we stick by to BAF related discussions only please?

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## SpaceMan18

PDF said:


> Can we stick by to BAF related discussions only please?



Yeah


Michael Corleone said:


> You both are struggling for stupid cause. Both are shitholes, one pretends they’re military superpower and other pretends to be rich. You both live abroad move on or go to your respective countries for three months, you won’t be able to tolerate 1.



Not really , I accept Bangaldesh sûcks him on the other hand keeps bringing in JF-17s like if they're F-22s or something.


alphapak said:


> I am not blaming America for the for our leadership, I am just saying how many
> countries they have bombed then they call others terrorists.
> 
> As for your girls not getting blown up by terrorists, that is because your girl Shamima Begum
> joined the terrorist groups in Syria. So many Bangalis from the UK joined ISIS from UK and
> Europe.
> 
> You talk about Pakistani's having low IQ but what about Bangladeshi's? You talk about China
> being anti muslim but if they invested 10 billion dollars and sold you J10's then you will bend
> over backwards to accommodate them.



Investing money in Muslim nations is not really investing it's classic CCP bullshît debt trap

Not China nor America cares about Pakistans actual development, both are countries that play dirty.

Your buddy China is constantly harassing others in the South China Sea

And don't even get me started on Covid - 19

Yeah couple of stupid Bengali girls who become Isis members don't represent us cause guess what we didn't even let her in cause it's her decision to become a dam insurgent.

Lmao bending over ? 

Pakistan is pretty good at it , literally lost billions to America and now China how funny 

At least we ain't getting tagged teamed by America and China


----------



## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yeah
> 
> 
> Not really , I accept Bangaldesh sûcks him on the other hand keeps bringing in JF-17s like if they're F-22s or something.
> 
> 
> Investing money in Muslim nations is not really investing it's classic CCP bullshît debt trap
> 
> Not China nor America cares about Pakistans actual development, both are countries that play dirty.
> 
> Your buddy China is constantly harassing others in the South China Sea
> 
> And don't even get me started on Covid - 19
> 
> Yeah couple of stupid Bengali girls who become Isis members don't represent us cause guess what we didn't even let her in cause it's her decision to become a dam insurgent.
> 
> Lmao bending over ?
> 
> Pakistan is pretty good at it , literally lost billions to America and now China how funny
> 
> At least we ain't getting tagged teamed by America and China



You are right, America and China don't care about Pak but they also don't care about any 
other country including Bangladesh. It is all about self interest, now if China wants to invest
10 billion in Bangladesh and sell you J10, will you reject it? calling it a debt trap?


----------



## The Ronin

So Indian media created new tale about JF-17. 40% of JF-17 is grounded in two Pakistani air bases. This might be wrong but it would be interesting to know what Pakistani ISPR and defense experts have to say about it. Cause you won't expect Pakistan to promote anything negetive about their pride project. There were already some criticisms about first Block of JFT if i remember it correctly. Anyone who can't prove it wrong with logic and proof, doesn't need to respond. No blabbering plz. 

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) if you don't mind.









40% Of Pakistan Frontline Fighter Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons


40% Of Pakistan's Frontline Fighter JF-17 Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons It is Pakistan's frontline fighter, warplanes to take




www.defencexp.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143394615078391809


Michael Corleone said:


> Only 35 pilots this batch. What are you on about?



I see only four pilots passed this course. Where do you see 35? And this is just the *second* course. 11 pilots passed in previous course if i remember it right.

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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> You are right, America and China don't care about Pak but they also don't care about any
> other country including Bangladesh. It is all about self interest, now if China wants to invest
> 10 billion in Bangladesh and sell you J10, will you reject it? calling it a debt trap?



I will take the money and support them in the moment , but not in the future.

Why can't Pakistan work with Japan or Korea like us ?


The Ronin said:


> So Indian media created new tale about JF-17. 40% of JF-17 is grounded in two Pakistani air bases. This might be wrong but it would be interesting to know what Pakistani ISPR and defense experts have to say about it. Cause you won't expect Pakistan to promote anything negetive about their pride project. There were already some criticisms about first Block of JFT if i remember it correctly. Anyone who can't prove it wrong with logic and proof, doesn't need to respond. No blabbering plz.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) if you don't mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan Frontline Fighter Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan's Frontline Fighter JF-17 Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons It is Pakistan's frontline fighter, warplanes to take
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defencexp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143394615078391809
> 
> 
> I see only four pilots passed this course. Where do you see 35? And this is just the *second* course. 11 pilots passed in previous course if i remember it right.



Could be a engine issue, or something we might not know of

It's impossible for that to happen to 40% of JF-17s

Nvm the link you gave us is a Indian defense site I feel like lol , of course they won't like Pakistan


----------



## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Not really , I accept Bangaldesh sûcks him on the other hand keeps bringing in JF-17s like if they're F-22s or something


They aren’t f22 but they’re not bad either.


The Ronin said:


> So Indian media created new tale about JF-17. 40% of JF-17 is grounded in two Pakistani air bases. This might be wrong but it would be interesting to know what Pakistani ISPR and defense experts have to say about it. Cause you won't expect Pakistan to promote anything negetive about their pride project. There were already some criticisms about first Block of JFT if i remember it correctly. Anyone who can't prove it wrong with logic and proof, doesn't need to respond. No blabbering plz.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) if you don't mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan Frontline Fighter Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan's Frontline Fighter JF-17 Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons It is Pakistan's frontline fighter, warplanes to take
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defencexp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143394615078391809
> 
> 
> I see only four pilots passed this course. Where do you see 35? And this is just the *second* course. 11 pilots passed in previous course if i remember it right.


AJT conversion course was done by 15 though 🤔


The Ronin said:


> So Indian media created new tale about JF-17. 40% of JF-17 is grounded in two Pakistani air bases. This might be wrong but it would be interesting to know what Pakistani ISPR and defense experts have to say about it. Cause you won't expect Pakistan to promote anything negetive about their pride project. There were already some criticisms about first Block of JFT if i remember it correctly. Anyone who can't prove it wrong with logic and proof, doesn't need to respond. No blabbering plz.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) if you don't mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan Frontline Fighter Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan's Frontline Fighter JF-17 Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons It is Pakistan's frontline fighter, warplanes to take
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defencexp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143394615078391809
> 
> 
> I see only four pilots passed this course. Where do you see 35? And this is just the *second* course. 11 pilots passed in previous course if i remember it right.


I wonder which is worse? 40% of the fleet having downtime or 70% of the fleet 😂😂😂


----------



## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> I will take the money and support them in the moment , but not in the future.



You will take the money so its not a debt trap and putting muslims in concentration
camps has gone out of the window.

Coming back to the topic, what do you think of J10's from china??


----------



## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> You will take the money so its not a debt trap and putting muslims in concentration
> camps has gone out of the window.
> 
> Coming back to the topic, what do you think of J10's from china??



Good I guess , but don't know if Myanmar will buy it too


----------



## Imran Khan

The Ronin said:


> So Indian media created new tale about JF-17. 40% of JF-17 is grounded in two Pakistani air bases. This might be wrong but it would be interesting to know what Pakistani ISPR and defense experts have to say about it. Cause you won't expect Pakistan to promote anything negetive about their pride project. There were already some criticisms about first Block of JFT if i remember it correctly. Anyone who can't prove it wrong with logic and proof, doesn't need to respond. No blabbering plz.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) if you don't mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan Frontline Fighter Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons
> 
> 
> 40% Of Pakistan's Frontline Fighter JF-17 Jets Docked For A Variety Of Reasons It is Pakistan's frontline fighter, warplanes to take
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defencexp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143394615078391809
> 
> 
> I see only four pilots passed this course. Where do you see 35? And this is just the *second* course. 11 pilots passed in previous course if i remember it right.


pushing it is not something rare . even ar home base they do it where all the equpment is there . we saw picture when chinese were pushing a jf17 in hanger at the same place where they made jf-17 .


f-16 


































f18





f-14

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## Michael Corleone

Germany to buy 38 EFT T4 and to receive starting 2025, Spain will order theirs soon so forget EFT this decade, anyone who still claims EFT is feeding you pipedream

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Germany to buy 38 EFT T4 and to receive starting 2025, Spain will order theirs soon so forget EFT this decade, anyone who still claims EFT is feeding you pipedream



So basically no dam MRCA for us ? 

Great , BAF biggest losers I have ever seen

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> So basically no dam MRCA for us ?
> 
> Great , BAF biggest losers I have ever seen


Not unless eurofighter consortium can ramp up production


----------



## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Not unless eurofighter consortium can ramp up production


It would be very ironic for BAF to rebuke another organisation for being 'slow".

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> It would be very ironic for BAF to rebuke another organisation for being 'slow".



Honestly I gave up hope for the BAF , time goes by and we get more behind. 

Other Air Forces wanted 4++ gen fighters and then they got it , while we're over here with BAF officials talking about buying 4th gen fighters and with no contract signed. 

This is pathetic, Covid isn't a fûcking excuse to sign a dam contract.


----------



## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Not unless eurofighter consortium can ramp up production




There are 4 production lines for Eurofighter - UK, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Any BAF order would most likely go to UK and they have enough capacity to start delivering Eurofighters to BAF starting 2025 as by 2024 they will have completed delivery of Eurofighters for Kuwait and Qatar.

To be honest it is best that any new-build Eurofighter order is delayed as the planes that Kuwait and Qatar are getting from the UK have the Mark 0 AESA radar and UK will start equipping it's own Eurofighters with it's own brand new more advanced Mark 2 AESA radar from around 2025 onwards.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> There are 4 production lines for Eurofighter - UK, Germany, Italy and Spain.
> 
> Any BAF order would most likely go to UK and they have enough capacity to start delivering Eurofighters to BAF starting 2025 as by 2024 they will have completed delivery of Eurofighters for Kuwait and Qatar.
> 
> To be honest it is best that any new-build Eurofighter order is delayed as the planes that Kuwait and Qatar are getting from the UK have the Mark 0 AESA radar and UK will start equipping it's own Eurofighters with it's own brand new more advanced Mark 2 AESA radar from around 2025 onwards.


They’re of of a parts production centers, Spain for ex produces one wing, UK makes the fuselage and so on. 
final assembly is done in one place. 
kuwait got mk1
Germany ordered 38 and they’ll start receiving in 2025... 
Spain will order soon

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> They’re of of a parts production centers, Spain for ex produces one wing, UK makes the fuselage and so on.
> final assembly is done in one place.
> kuwait got mk1
> Germany ordered 38 and they’ll start receiving in 2025...
> Spain will order soon




Eurofighter production capacity would still be lower than it was at peak production phase.

There is enough spare capacity to produce the parts to satisfy a BAF order if one came to allow delivery from 2025 at the earliest now.


----------



## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Eurofighter production capacity would still be lower than it was at peak production phase.
> 
> There is enough spare capacity to produce the parts to satisfy a BAF order if one came to allow delivery from 2025 at the earliest now.


Then that would be good
Ours will be expensive than Germany because we’re only looking for 16


----------



## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Then that would be good
> Ours will be expensive than Germany because we’re only looking for 16



Germany would get it's planes at cost of production but BAF would have to pay for manufacture and a share of development costs.


----------



## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Germany would get it's planes at cost of production but BAF would have to pay for manufacture and a share of development costs.



But the real question is , will BAF buy the Typhoon and the sign the contract ?

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> But the real question is , will BAF buy the Typhoon and the sign the contract ?





Well we have little hope that BAF will buy ANYTHING from West in next 1-2 years but we can talk about options.

There would have been media reports already if there was any serious discussions with a Western supplier like the UK.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Germany would get it's planes at cost of production but BAF would have to pay for manufacture and a share of development costs.


Not just that, they’re buying more and already have infrastructure and training in place


----------



## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Not just that, they’re buying more and already have infrastructure and training in place




Yes but I was just commenting on flyaway cost per plane.

Ordering more makes little difference when the Eurofighter is in production for several countries. Whether BAF orders 16 or 40 it will pay the same per plane.


----------



## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Yes but I was just commenting on flyaway cost per plane.
> 
> Ordering more makes little difference when the Eurofighter is in production for several countries. Whether BAF orders 16 or 40 it will pay the same per plane.


You never know. Bangladesh buying EFT might encourage other developing countries to buy EFTs. It all comes down to negotiations which BAF suck at.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Well we have little hope that BAF will buy ANYTHING from West in next 1-2 years but we can talk about options.
> 
> There would have been media reports already if there was any serious discussions with a Western supplier like the UK.



While losers on the internet like Defense Update Bangaldesh will say shît like " Muh Huh BAF is keeping it a secret "

But seriously hopefully next year we actually buy something , I'm tired of hearing these delays for the most stupidešt of reasons.


We don't even have our MRSAMS or our J-10Cs , while every other dam nation is buying their own shït.

BAF is more talking rather than walking 


I don't see this shît happen Indonesia or Malaysia


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

JohnWick said:


> You can buy this EFT for real otherwise The actual may be not possible
> View attachment 686683






@WebMaster why does he get a free pass to troll on this thread and we get banned for replying ?

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> @WebMaster why does he get a free pass to troll on this thread and we get banned for replying ?



NÎGGA brags about F-16s and JF-17s like if they are 7th generation space fighter aircrafts

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> NÎGGA brags about F-16s and JF-17s like if they are 7th generation space fighter aircrafts


Shh he’s white boy from England. How dare you call him a Nigga

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Shh he’s white boy from England. How dare you call him a Nigga



Ahh yes a Anglo Saxon Aryan


----------



## The Ronin

Fourth BAF C-130J spotted!! She looks ready for her test flight.

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> Fourth BAF C-130J spotted!! She seems ready for her test flight.





Good spotting.


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## The Ronin

Interesting news from Turkey again. Well, not sure who's actually getting it but i will just post it here cause BAF was supposed to get MR-SAM first. Acc to this guy name Tayfun, Bangladesh will receive first modern air defence missile system so he congratulated the Turkish defence industry.

Yesterday, Aselsan announced a deal worth 118 million Euro signed with an unknown country which can provide us at least 2 batteries of HISAR-O acc to Turkish TDF member. I hope the news is really meant for us.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016

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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> Interesting news from Turkey again. Well, not sure who's actually getting it but i will just post it here cause BAF was supposed to get MR-SAM first. Acc to this guy name Tayfun, Bangladesh will receive first modern air defence missile system so he congratulated the Turkish defence industry.
> 
> Yesterday, Aselsan announced a deal worth 118 million Euro signed with an unknown country which can provide us at least 2 batteries of HISAR-O acc to Turkish TDF member. I hope the news is really meant for us.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016



Hmm seems good, but I will not believe it until I see it in Bangladesh 

We desperately need this to protect our port areas against any Myanmar attack from air.


----------



## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> Interesting news from Turkey again. Well, not sure who's actually getting it but i will just post it here cause BAF was supposed to get MR-SAM first. Acc to this guy name Tayfun, Bangladesh will receive first modern air defence missile system so he congratulated the Turkish defence industry.
> 
> Yesterday, Aselsan announced a deal worth 118 million Euro signed with an unknown country which can provide us at least 2 batteries of HISAR-O acc to Turkish TDF member. I hope the news is really meant for us.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016





I do not wish to comment on someone's speculation but 2 batteries of Hisar-O from Turkey with 50km range are badly needed to start properly defending some strategic sites in BD.


----------



## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Interesting news from Turkey again. Well, not sure who's actually getting it but i will just post it here cause BAF was supposed to get MR-SAM first. Acc to this guy name Tayfun, Bangladesh will receive first modern air defence missile system so he congratulated the Turkish defence industry.
> 
> Yesterday, Aselsan announced a deal worth 118 million Euro signed with an unknown country which can provide us at least 2 batteries of HISAR-O acc to Turkish TDF member. I hope the news is really meant for us.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016




@idune By fortifying "Bangladeshi" artllery, BAL is essentially strengthening India's defence on the Eastern front against China as they have already sold sovereignty to India (evidenced by increase in forex reserve).

Awami stripteasers happily running regime props machine khullamkhulla.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> @idune By fortifying "Bangladeshi" artllery, BAL is essentially strengthening India's defence on the Eastern front against China as they have already sold sovereignty to India (evidenced by increase in forex reserve).
> 
> Awami stripteasers happily running regime props machine khullamkhulla.






Don't bother, after months of hard work, I got him banned, next step is to get him another warning as soon as he is out of the ban, that way he will be out for two weeks and then I'll repeat until he gets a one month ban and so on.... 



Master BCL plan 😈😈😈

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> I do not wish to comment on someone's speculation but 2 batteries of Hisar-O from Turkey with 50km range are badly needed to start properly defending some strategic sites in BD.


No doubt that will be a step in the right direction but I hate poorly planned piecemeal procurement of such hardware. 

We should be procuring enough to cover the entire country with phased delivery and payment schedules.

We also need LR-SAM and long range guided artillery to be able to bust nearby Indian and Burmese air bases.

BTW, do you know what is the maximum altitude Su-30s and Rafales can fly while firing precision weapons? This will determine the level of SAM coverage we need.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> No doubt that will be a step in the right direction but I hate poorly planned piecemeal procurement of such hardware.
> 
> We should be procuring enough to cover the entire country with phased delivery and payment schedules.
> 
> We also need LR-SAM and long range guided artillery to be able to bust nearby Indian and Burmese air bases.
> 
> BTW, do you know what is the maximum altitude Su-30s and Rafales can fly while firing precision weapons? This will determine the level of SAM coverage we need.





Well the base range of the Hisar-O is 25km but there is a longer range with 50km.

Maximum altitude is 15km which is sufficient to take down Rafale and SU-30MKI which is around this figure.
LGBs have a range of up to 30km and so the extended range Hisar-O can take down fighters that are trying to bomb with them.

As for planning, both BA and BAF are equipped with the excellent short-range Chinese FM-90 SAM system and so there was a plan there that has been implemented there.

My preference is for BD to first equip with the medium-range extended-range Hisar-O system and then start buying the long-range Hisar-U.


PS - BD has already brought 18 units of the 120km range Kasirga MLRS from Turkey.

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Don't bother, after months of hard work, I got him banned, next step is to get him another warning as soon as he is out of the ban, that way he will be out for two weeks and then I'll repeat until he gets a one month ban and so on....
> 
> 
> 
> Master BCL plan 😈😈😈



Let's get that wannabe white boi Jonh Wick banned


UKBengali said:


> Well the base range of the Hisar-O is 25km but there is a longer range with 50km.
> 
> Maximum altitude is 15km which is sufficient to take down Rafale and SU-30MKI which is around this figure.
> LGBs have a range of up to 30km and so the extended range Hisar-O can take down fighters that are trying to bomb with them.
> 
> As for planning, both BA and BAF are equipped with the excellent short-range Chinese FM-90 SAM system and so there was a plan there that has been implemented there.
> 
> My preference is for BD to first equip with the medium-range extended-range Hisar-O system and then start buying the long-range Hisar-U.
> 
> 
> PS - BD has already brought 18 units of the 120km range Kasirga MLRS from Turkey.



True I guess , Hisar U says 100km which isn't bad but doesn't feel very long range. 

Let's see what excuse BAF has in 2021


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> Let's get that wannabe white boi Jonh Wick banned
> 
> 
> True I guess , Hisar U says 100km which isn't bad but doesn't feel very long range.
> 
> Let's see what excuse BAF has in 2021






We are NOT procuring Hisar U or LRSAM at this time.





Bangladesh is a small country, we do not need anything as long range as you seem to be suggesting,...


----------



## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> True I guess , Hisar U says 100km which isn't bad but doesn't feel very long range.
> 
> Let's see what excuse BAF has in 2021





Hisar-U will start with 100km range missiles and could get longer range missiles in future.

Anyway BD is small in area and so 120-150km max. would probably be sufficient.







DalalErMaNodi said:


> We are NOT procuring Hisar U or LRSAM at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is a small country, we do not need anything as long range as you seem to be suggesting,...



Even small countries like BD need LRSAMs but less of them than larger countries.

MRSAM network would leave "SAM gaps" that enemy planes can exploit to penetrate BD airspace.

BD needs a comprehensive MRSAM network first and then needs a few batteries of LRSAM to complete the SAM coverage of it's airspace.

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## saif

Bangladesh has started evaluating medium range SAM system. I think Chinese LY-80D would be procured for Bangladesh air force/ army.


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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> I do not wish to comment on someone's speculation



Looks like that guy is part of marketing, R&D and journalism of Turkish defense industry. Even that Turan Oguz guy follows him. So something must be happening.



UKBengali said:


> Hisar-O from Turkey with 50km range



The 50km variant is still in development phase. If BD gets anything now it will be the 25km range variant.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I got him banned



Hold your horses pal. I can't let you take all the credit. He was warned for posting those Bengali propaganda article in English and he got two warning/strike in single thread for breaking forum rules. 









Destranator said:


> BTW, do you know what is the maximum altitude Su-30s and Rafales can fly while firing precision weapons? This will determine the level of SAM coverage we need.



4km-6km for precision bombing.



SpaceMan18 said:


> Let's get that wannabe white boi Jonh Wick banned



That guy was banned in this sticky thread. Wonder why admin/mods lifted the ban.

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> Hold your horses pal. I can't let you take all the credit. He was warned for posting those Bengali propaganda article in English and he got two warning/strike in single thread for breaking forum rules.
> 
> View attachment 687431







You think you were the only one who reported those posts ? 




I've been working him for the past month, easing racist remarks and insults out of him in order to get him warnings


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## Michael Corleone

rejoice

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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> View attachment 687435
> 
> rejoice


waiting for the next parade ceremony..our air chief will certainly reveal this in his speech...


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## DalalErMaNodi

ghost250 said:


> waiting for the next parade ceremony..our air chief will certainly reveal this in his speech...




Its for the Army.

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## ghost250

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Its for the Army.


but air force should get it frst for their base protection!! r army kisuh din age na matro evaluation notice dilo,ettoo taratari evaluate kora kmne sesh hoy??!!


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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> Looks like that guy is part of marketing, R&D and journalism of Turkish defense industry. Even that Turan Oguz guy follows him. So something must be happening.
> 
> The 50km variant is still in development phase. If BD gets anything now it will be the 25km range variant.




Too many false dawns with "insider" reports that we should wait for official confirmation.

As for the 25km range version, it offers little over the 15km range FM-90 that both BA and BAF have and so pointless buying it.
BD should be aiming to order the 50km range version when available in order to protect airbases, cities and critical infrastructure like ports, power stations and bridges.


The Ronin said:


> 4km-6km for precision bombing.




Where did you get this from?

As long as weather is clear LGBs can bomb from service ceiling of plane and up to 30km away.

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## DalalErMaNodi

UKBengali said:


> Too many false dawns with "insider" reports that we should wait for official confirmation.
> 
> As for the 25km range version, it offers little over the 15km range FM-90 that both BA and BAF have and so pointless buying it.
> BD should be aiming to order the 50km range version when available in order to protect airbases, cities and critical infrastructure like ports, power stations and bridges.





Not just range, Altitude also matters.


Hisar O can hit targets at upwards of 15 Kilometres or 50,000 feet, While with the FM-90B its only 6 Kilometers or a little under 20,000 feet.



FM-90b can simply not hit the Jets MAF fields, Even If they're at *half their service ceilings*.


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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Not just range, Altitude also matters.
> 
> 
> Hisar O can hit targets at upwards of 15 Kilometres or 50,000 feet, While with the FM-90B its only 6 Kilometers or a little under 20,000 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> FM-90b can simply not hit the Jets MAF fields, Even If they're at *half their service ceilings*.



True , don't know why BA didn't get the Chinese LY-80s ?


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## UKBengali

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Not just range, Altitude also matters.
> 
> 
> Hisar O can hit targets at upwards of 15 Kilometres or 50,000 feet, While with the FM-90B its only 6 Kilometers or a little under 20,000 feet.
> 
> 
> 
> FM-90b can simply not hit the Jets MAF fields, Even If they're at *half their service ceilings*.




It is true what you say.

I am not convinced that the 25km range Hisar-O actually has 15km altitude ceiling and this is more likely to be the 50km range version.

Anyway getting SAM systems from Turkey would be a great step for BD as long as the weapons are of good enough quality. I would take slightly lesser quality from Turkey over others as they will be reliable against either India or Myanmar.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> It is true what you say.
> 
> I am not convinced that the 25km range Hisar-O actually has 15km altitude ceiling and this is more likely to be the 50km range version.
> 
> Anyway getting SAM systems from Turkey would be a great step for BD as long as the weapons are of good enough quality. I would take slightly lesser quality from Turkey over others as they will be reliable against either India or Myanmar.



Lesser quality ? I think Turkish weapons have pretty good quality and they are NATO centric weapons so the quality has to be good.


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Lesser quality ? I think Turkish weapons have pretty good quality and they are NATO centric weapons so the quality has to be good.




I am not saying that Turkish SAMs would be any worse than say Chinese but just speculating that even if they were a little less in quality they would be a better choice for strategic reasons.

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## DalalErMaNodi

UKBengali said:


> It is true what you say.
> 
> I am not convinced that the 25km range Hisar-O actually has 15km altitude ceiling and this is more likely to be the 50km range version.
> 
> Anyway getting SAM systems from Turkey would be a great step for BD as long as the weapons are of good enough quality. I would take slightly lesser quality from Turkey over others as they will be reliable against either India or Myanmar.






















Different Sources have different altitudes listed, But I would argue its 15 KM. 



Because the above excerpts are from articles from 2017, Hisar "+" level wasn't a thing until 2019, Both Aselsan and Roketsan tout the System as a "Medium Altitude Air Defence System".

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## UKBengali

DalalErMaNodi said:


> View attachment 687470
> 
> 
> View attachment 687471
> 
> 
> View attachment 687472
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Different Sources have different altitudes listed, But I would argue its 15 KM.
> 
> 
> 
> Because the above excerpts are from articles from 2017, Hisar "+" level wasn't a thing until 2019, Both Aselsan and Roketsan tout the System as a "Medium Altitude Air Defence System".




I do not think that service ceilings are fixed in stone.

If the 25km range Hisar-O can go up to 15km altitude then there is no reason that the 15km FM-90 cannot go up to 9-10km range in theory but obviously the chance of a hit diminishes the higher it has to reach to get to it's target.

Remember that the tracking range of the FM-90 radar is 25km and homing is 20km and so the radar can guide the missile for longer than the missile can travel.


----------



## DalalErMaNodi

UKBengali said:


> I do not think that service ceilings are fixed in stone.
> 
> If the 25km range Hisar-O can go up to 15km altitude then there is no reason that the 15km FM-90 cannot go up to 9-10km range in theory but obviously the chance of a hit diminishes the higher it has to reach to get to it's target.
> 
> Remember that the tracking range of the FM-90 radar is 25km and homing is 20km and so the radar can guide the missile for longer than the missile can travel.





Anyhow, the 15 KM value is not related to the "+" version, my bad "+" versions only came to light in 2020.











They system was deployed in Syria, I believe its a step over FM-90b, what remains to be seen is what the Air Force procures, the army is looking for strategic air defence anyway.


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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Anyhow, the 15 KM value is not related to the "+" version, my bad "+" versions only came to light in 2020.
> 
> 
> View attachment 687475
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They system was deployed in Syria, I believe its a step over FM-90b, what remains to be seen is what the Air Force procures, the army is looking for strategic air defence anyway.



Strategic air defense ? Like what systems exactly ?


----------



## UKBengali

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Anyhow, the 15 KM value is not related to the "+" version, my bad "+" versions only came to light in 2020.
> 
> 
> View attachment 687475
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They system was deployed in Syria, I believe its a step over FM-90b, what remains to be seen is what the Air Force procures, the army is looking for strategic air defence anyway.




Yes it is better than the FM-90 but really is not medium range as you need around 50km for that.

FM-90 for short range SAM defence - BD is equipped already

Extended Hisar O for medium range - As long as quality is good enough then BD needs to build a network based on this all over the country.

Finally a few batteries of strategically placed long range Hisar-U to make BD airspace almost impenetrable to hostile planes to complete SAM coverage of BD.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Also,

Hisar A was termed low altitude during its testing, it has a max ceiling of 10 KM.

Hisar U is touted as a High altitude variant with a specified altitude of 20 KM.



Hisar O has been christened as "Medium Altitude", given that and the various sources stating its 15KM, I think it is indeed 15 KMs.



Anyway, enough about that.



Its a good purchase. It seems we will be getting delivery of the Kasirga system soon too.




UKBengali said:


> Yes it is better than the FM-90 but really is not medium range as you need around 50km for that.
> 
> FM-90 for short range SAM defence - BD is equipped already
> 
> Extended Hisar O for medium range - As long as quality is good enough then BD needs to build a network based on this all over the country.
> 
> Finally a few batteries of strategically placed long range Hisar-U to make BD airspace almost impenetrable to hostile planes to complete SAM coverage of BD.





Army and BAF I believe are more concerned with Slant Range rather than range and altitude itself. Which is very interesting, If you think about it.










I'd say we need a lot more Fm-90B, If we actually want to provide credible short range air defence.


----------



## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Also,
> 
> Hisar A was termed low altitude during its testing, it has a max ceiling of 10 KM.
> 
> Hisar U is touted as a High altitude variant with a specified altitude of 20 KM.
> 
> 
> 
> Hisar O has been christened as "Medium Altitude", given that and the various sources stating its 15KM, I think it is indeed 15 KMs.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, enough about that.
> 
> 
> 
> Its a good purchase. It seems we will be getting delivery of the Kasirga system soon too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army and BAF I believe are more concerned with Slant Range rather than range and altitude itself. Which is very interesting, If you think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 687482



Hopefully India doesn't make a big deal about this  , and yeah slant range seems good for incoming mf ground strike aircraft or bombs


----------



## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Interesting news from Turkey again. Well, not sure who's actually getting it but i will just post it here cause BAF was supposed to get MR-SAM first. Acc to this guy name Tayfun, Bangladesh will receive first modern air defence missile system so he congratulated the Turkish defence industry.
> 
> Yesterday, Aselsan announced a deal worth 118 million Euro signed with an unknown country which can provide us at least 2 batteries of HISAR-O acc to Turkish TDF member. I hope the news is really meant for us.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016


Medium range first


Imran Khan said:


> i used it already few pages ago


You resurrected from dead to alive? :o


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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Medium range first
> 
> You resurrected from dead to alive? :o



I mean we are getting MRSAM so , don't know how many though


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## The Ronin

ghost250 said:


> waiting for the next parade ceremony..our air chief will certainly reveal this in his speech...



He already did almost two years ago. Talk about MR-SAM is actually older than that. Even older than army's evaluation.



UKBengali said:


> Too many false dawns with "insider" reports that we should wait for official confirmation.



Well, Aselsan already make official announcement including other Turkish sources like the SAM's project manager. We shouldn't expect anything from our side, they make proper announcement only few times and sometimes they don't tell it specifically. Though minister and air chief already announced MR-SAM procurement years ago.



UKBengali said:


> Where did you get this from?
> 
> As long as weather is clear LGBs can bomb from service ceiling of plane and up to 30km away.



Sorry, i forgot to add "AFAIK/I could be wrong". I was actually trying to find about the altitude from where fighter jet can launch ground attack accurately. Previously i found 3-8km range but mostly in 4-6km range. 

After your question i tried to find about it again and i only found that American LGB can be dropped at 9km altitude. The Russian LGBs on Su-30MKI have 5-10km altitude range while Israeli SPICE has 3-4km. India's own Sudarshan LGB has 7km altitude.

LITENING and Sniper pod has operational range of 12km and 15km. India uses the first one. I couldn't find anything about 30km or service ceiling anywhere. Can you please provide the link? @dbc can you shed some light in it?

“In a modern weapon system, there’s no payoff” below 5,000 feet, Leaf explained. “In terms of precise, laser-guided bomb employment, moving it up to 15,000 or 20,000 feet, if the weather allows, you get better, not worse, in terms of precisely placing your ordnance.”

As the tactical payoff diminishes, the random dangers to aircraft increase. Said Leaf: “If you are below 5,000 feet AGL, anybody with an AK-47 or anything else can really ruin your day.” In Vietnam, there were several reported cases of pilots or their backseaters being killed by small-arms fire. “Above 15,000 feet, you’ve got less vulnerability and more reaction time,” continued Leaf. “Based on radar warning or visual acquisition of something that’s threatening you, you’ve got more time to respond and they’re less likely to hit you. You don’t get comfortable, but you do have a sense that above 15,000 feet you have a more significant sense of being able to control the situation.”










__





Guided Bomb Unit-24 (GBU-24) Paveway III - Smart Weapons






fas.org













IAF conducts trials of Sudarshan bomb | Jaipur News - Times of India


To increase its firing capacity after Balakot strike, the Indian Air Force (IAF) on Tuesday conducted trials of the new genration laser-guided bomb, S




timesofindia.indiatimes.com




.





__





Altitude - Air Force Magazine


Contrary to popular opinion, lower is not always best.




www.airforcemag.com







SpaceMan18 said:


> True , don't know why BA didn't get the Chinese LY-80s ?



LY-80 can engage target at 18km altitude. Not much difference.



UKBengali said:


> I am not convinced that the 25km range Hisar-O actually has 15km altitude ceiling and this is more likely to be the 50km range version.





DalalErMaNodi said:


> Hisar O has been christened as "Medium Altitude", given that and the various sources stating its 15KM, I think it is indeed 15 KMs.



I don't understand why you two are making so much fuss about the altitude. It's officially confirmed. @DalalErMaNodi already showed it. What is here to argue about then? And Hisar O+ (50km) will have 20km altitude range.



https://www.aselsan.com.tr/4a38351c-3819-40f8-b7f5-f2e6c4b2839f.pdf










UKBengali said:


> If the 25km range Hisar-O can go up to 15km altitude then there is no reason that the 15km FM-90 cannot go up to 9-10km range in theory but obviously the chance of a hit diminishes the higher it has to reach to get to it's target.
> 
> Remember that the tracking range of the FM-90 radar is 25km and homing is 20km and so the radar can guide the missile for longer than the missile can travel.



This just went over my head. With that logic Hisar O should have increased altitude as it can detect and track targets up to 40-60km.  



UKBengali said:


> Yes it is better than the FM-90 but really is not medium range as you need around 50km for that.



How did you reach to that conclusion and determine that MR-SAM has to be in 50km range? MR-SAM has 25/30/40/50km ranges. 



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I'd say we need a lot more Fm-90B, If we actually want to provide credible short range air defence.



I think army and air force have full SHORADS coverage now, that's why they are moving forward with MR-SAM procurement.

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## Imran Khan

its seems you guys bored from fighter jets now enjoying SAMs

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## dbc

The Ronin said:


> LITENING and Sniper pod has operational range of 12km and 15km. India uses the first one. I couldn't find anything about 30km or service ceiling anywhere. Can you please provide the link? @dbc can you shed some light in it?



45 km in ideal conditions, 0 in adverse conditions cloud cover, fog and sand storm. 15 km sounds about right for a typical conditions.
Partly the reason why we still practice gun runs and toss/dive bombing.

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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> I don't understand why you two are making so much fuss about the altitude. It's officially confirmed. @DalalErMaNodi already showed it. What is here to argue about then? And Hisar O+ (50km) will have 20km altitude range.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aselsan.com.tr/4a38351c-3819-40f8-b7f5-f2e6c4b2839f.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 687577
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This just went over my head. With that logic Hisar O should have increased altitude as it can detect and track targets up to 40-60km.
> 
> 
> 
> How did you reach to that conclusion and determine that MR-SAM has to be in 50km range? MR-SAM has 25/30/40/50km ranges.
> 
> 
> 
> I think army and air force have full SHORADS coverage now, that's why they are moving forward with MR-SAM procurement.






I wasn't arguing, merely reaffirming that Hisar O has a max altitude of 15,000 meters. 

Why would I argue over such a trivial matter ? If he was an Indian maybe I'd argue over such little things for the sake of argument. 




Bangladesh is a small country, given that, I'd say Medium would mean a whole different system for us than it would for example a country like Pakistan, in MRSAM category, for us anything from 30 to 50 KM would be appropriate. 

Long range, If ever procured, could be 60+ km and so on, In context of Bangladesh, I feel like the ly80 is LRSAM.




FM-90B is great for short range defence but we need a few more regiments for both BAF and BA, currently we have what 4 regiments ? 


Alot of high level infrastructural projects are reaching their completion, some even more important than Padma bridge, places like these need to be brought under the air defence umbrella, example Matarbari deep-sea port & Payra Deep Seaport. 



I seriously doubt they have completed fulfilled the shorad requirement with only 4 - 5 regiments of FM-90B.... 




Whatever happened to manufacturing MANPADs in Bangladesh ? Anybody got an update.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> I think army and air force have full SHORADS coverage now, that's why they are moving forward with MR-SAM procurement


Army will get another regiment

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Army will get another regiment





Should get almost a couple more for both BAF and BA.


A strong shorad base is key to building an effective layered air defence network.



The Hisar is worth €118 million, so many regiments is that ?


----------



## Nomad40

dbc said:


> Network centric warfare is a well established doctrine and it is more relevant when the airspace is compressed. Because a _'tiny airspace' _compresses your reaction time and data from these connected assets / sensors will allow you to anticipate enemy actions better and respond more effectively.
> 
> By high performance I assume you mean 4.5 Gen then I agree. But the 4.5 Gen platforms are less effective when operating disconnected from the network. Put another way one squadron of network linked 4.5 Gen fighter is more effective than three squadrons of the same type.


FACTS! I would like to know more about your professional/work background.


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## UKBengali

DalalErMaNodi said:


> I wasn't arguing, merely reaffirming that Hisar O has a max altitude of 15,000 meters.
> 
> Why would I argue over such a trivial matter ? If he was an Indian maybe I'd argue over such little things for the sake of argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is a small country, given that, I'd say Medium would mean a whole different system for us than it would for example a country like Pakistan, in MRSAM category, for us anything from 30 to 50 KM would be appropriate.
> 
> Long range, If ever procured, could be 60+ km and so on, In context of Bangladesh, I feel like the ly80 is LRSAM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FM-90B is great for short range defence but we need a few more regiments for both BAF and BA, currently we have what 4 regiments ?
> 
> 
> Alot of high level infrastructural projects are reaching their completion, some even more important than Padma bridge, places like these need to be brought under the air defence umbrella, example Matarbari deep-sea port & Payra Deep Seaport.
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt they have completed fulfilled the shorad requirement with only 4 - 5 regiments of FM-90B....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever happened to manufacturing MANPADs in Bangladesh ? Anybody got an update.



BA already has QW-2 manpad and has started manufacturing QN-16 after getting ToT from China. It is already in service I think.
4-5 regiments of FM-90 plus the man portable SAMs are probably as much as BD will procure for the time being.
It is time to procure MRSAMs now which are long overdue.

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## DalalErMaNodi

DO NOT QUOTE, JUST REPORT. 

Heathens should be put back into their zoo enclosures.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Should get almost a couple more for both BAF and BA.
> 
> 
> A strong shorad base is key to building an effective layered air defence network.
> 
> 
> 
> The Hisar is worth €118 million, so many regiments is that ?


I’m not Arselan sales man dude


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> I’m not Arselan sales man dude




That was a general question to all,...



What is arselan ?


----------



## Michael Corleone

JohnWick said:


> The Fighting Falcon
> View attachment 687603
> 
> 
> Anyone can tell who is Nigger here !
> View attachment 687607


You? No you’re a whigga


----------



## saif

UKBengali said:


> It is time to procure MRSAMs now which are long overdue.


Bangladesh is already evaluating Medium Range SAM system. I hope they buy LY-80D from China.


----------



## The Ronin

dbc said:


> 45 km in ideal conditions, 0 in adverse conditions cloud cover, fog and sand storm. 15 km sounds about right for a typical conditions.
> Partly the reason why we still practice gun runs and toss/dive bombing.



I actually mentioned you to clarify about the altitude for air-to-ground attack. How can it be 45km if the fighter jet has service ceiling of 15-18 km?



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Why would I argue over such a trivial matter ? If he was an Indian maybe I'd argue over such little things for the sake of argument.



The argument part is actually for UKBengali as he was dragging it the most.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> I feel like the ly80 is LRSAM



HQ-16A? No. HQ-16D? Maybe.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> FM-90B is great for short range defence but we need a few more regiments for both BAF and BA, currently we have what 4 regiments ?



BAF has been inducting FM-90 since 2011, they should have done inducting it by now.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Alot of high level infrastructural projects are reaching their completion, some even more important than Padma bridge, places like these need to be brought under the air defence umbrella, example Matarbari deep-sea port & Payra Deep Seaport.



You mean area defense? That will be done by LR-SAM which will not happen so soon. I heard BAF will only put SAM in it's bases. Army is in charge of providing nationwide air defense. 



DalalErMaNodi said:


> Whatever happened to manufacturing MANPADs in Bangladesh ? Anybody got an update.



Last time i checked in 2017 MHD, they are manufacturing it. Even came in last MANPAD tender.



DalalErMaNodi said:


> The Hisar is worth €118 million, so many regiments is that ?



Two batteries at least according to Turkish member.

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## X-ray Papa

tarpitz said:


> Let them keep dreaming. They are just dreaming about almost all the Turkish weapons. They are even thinking of buying LHD from Turkey.


Supa Powa Myanmar!

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## Michael Corleone

Bangladesh Air Show 2022


Bangladesh Air Force




bas2022.gov.bd




Welcome

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> This just went over my head. With that logic Hisar O should have increased altitude as it can detect and track targets up to 40-60km.




Ok, assume that 25km range Hisar-O has maximum altitude of 15km, then it is logical that 15km range FM-90 could have max realistic altitude of 8-9km.

You really think that somehow FM-90 SAM falls out of the sky as soon as it reaches an altitude of 6km when the maximum range is 15km and the radar can guide it out to 20km? Of course not.

6km is probably the figure for an intercept under certain defined conditions and anything above that would mean that the probability of intercept would rapidly diminish.


As for MRSAM range, look at what most MRSAMs are now these days - nearly all fall into the 40-70km range categories. There is no internationally agreed definition of the range parameters of MRSAM but a 25km range "MRSAM" would not be accepted as this in most SAM producing nations of the world.

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## dbc

The Ronin said:


> I actually mentioned you to clarify about the altitude for air-to-ground attack. How can it be 45km if the fighter jet has service ceiling of 15-18 km?


I was speaking of distance and not altitude. Detection range depends on the contrast, against a cold backdrop detection range increases. For a observer on the ground and the heat source in the air, a cold night arctic sky will offer the best contrast - in these ideal conditions detection is possible at max range >= 45 km. The opposite is true for the observer in the sky and the heat source on a hot desert. As with all things military the real world tends to expose design flaws and limitations of technology really quickly.

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## UKBengali

dbc said:


> I was speaking of distance and not altitude. Detection range depends on the contrast, against a cold backdrop detection range increases. For a observer on the ground and the heat source in the air, a cold night arctic sky will offer the best contrast - in these ideal conditions detection is possible at max range >= 45 km. The opposite is true for the observer in the sky and the heat source on a hot desert. As with all things military the real world tends to expose design flaws and limitations of technology really quickly.




Thanks for that clear explantion.

I read that US LGBs can hit targets from up to 28km, and so in theory a plane can be at it's service ceiling of say 17km and still be able to bomb using LGB as long as the weather conditions are favourable.


----------



## dbc

UKBengali said:


> Thanks for that clear explantion.
> 
> I read that US LGBs can hit targets from up to 28km, and so in theory a plane can be at it's service ceiling of say 17km and still be able to bomb using LGB as long as the weather conditions are favourable.



LGB is a glide weapon so the range of employment increases with altitude. For first generation LGB kits, If laser designation is provided by a third party ( troops on the ground) and not self designated then the weapon is still limited by the ability of the LGB sensor to see the laser.
Later generation of LGBs known as _Dual Mode Laser Guided Bomb (DMLGB) _kits is equipped with GPS/INS and so your assumption is true. For 1st gen LGB its not true.

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## UKBengali

dbc said:


> LGB is a glide weapon so the range of employment increases with altitude. For first generation LGB kits, If laser designation is provided by a third party ( troops on the ground) and not self designated then the weapon is still limited by the ability of the LGB sensor to see the laser.
> Later generation of LGBs known as _Dual Mode Laser Guided Bomb (DMLGB) _kits is equipped with GPS/INS and so your assumption is true. For 1st gen LGB its not true.




Surely the way around the problem with 3rd party laser designation for 1st gen LGBs is for the weapon to be released aiming for a "box" in the general area, and then once it picks up the laser when close enough it can hit the target with pinpoint accuracy?


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## dbc

UKBengali said:


> Surely the way around the problem with 3rd party laser designation for 1st gen LGBs is for the weapon to be released aiming for a "box" in the general area, and then once it picks up the laser when close enough it can hit the target with pinpoint accuracy?


No..too dangerous to release a PGM in the hope of receiving guidance. The munition is armed and will explode upon impact. The risk of civilian or friendies getting hurt is too great.

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## The Ronin

I think HISAR-O is the best deal BD military can get. We can use the O+ version when it's available. Navy can also arm it's future frigate with Hisar- O+ and ATMACA AShM.



UKBengali said:


> Ok, assume that 25km range Hisar-O has maximum altitude of 15km, then it is logical that 15km range FM-90 could have max realistic altitude of 8-9km.
> 
> You really think that somehow FM-90 SAM falls out of the sky as soon as it reaches an altitude of 6km when the maximum range is 15km and the radar can guide it out to 20km? Of course not.
> 
> 6km is probably the figure for an intercept under certain defined conditions and anything above that would mean that the probability of intercept would rapidly diminish.



I assumed and it's still not clear. Both SAMs seem to have 9-10km less range in altitude compared to horizontal limit. I am no expert but i don't think you can just talk about the altitude based on the range. It perhaps also depends on rocket motor, fuel, aerodynamics etc.

That's why i got confused by your comment. Probably an in-depth analysis can be helpful like the link below which also says the altitude is 6km. That's best article i can find so far. And it looks like the Chinese copy doesn't have same performance like the original one. Original Crotale SAM actually has 9km altitude. @LKJ86





__





CPMIEC HQ-7/FM-80/FM-90 / CSA-4/CSA-5 Sino-Crotale Self Propelled Air Defence System


CPMIEC, CPMIEC HQ-7, FM-80, FM-90, CSA-4, Crotale, Surface to Air Missile



www.ausairpower.net













UKBengali said:


> As for MRSAM range, look at what most MRSAMs are now these days - nearly all fall into the 40-70km range categories. There is no internationally agreed definition of the range parameters of MRSAM but a 25km range "MRSAM" would not be accepted as this in most SAM producing nations of the world.



Not really. Based on my findings i see most of the SAM ranges between 25-40km. Very few are exceptional. I guess it depends on the requirement of a country's armed forces.



dbc said:


> I was speaking of distance and not altitude.



So was i right about the altitude part or not?


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## dbc

The Ronin said:


> So was i right about the altitude part or not?



yes you are right. LGB has no service ceiling but that does not mean it can be employed at max altitude of the aircraft carrying the weapon.

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## UKBengali

dbc said:


> yes you are right. LGB has no service ceiling but that does not mean it can be employed at max altitude of the aircraft carrying the weapon.



I am confused here.

If it has no maximum service ceiling and the weather conditions are favourable and the aircraft can laser designate the target, why cannot the plane use LGB from service ceiling?


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## dbc

UKBengali said:


> I am confused here.
> 
> If it has no maximum service ceiling and the weather conditions are favourable and the aircraft can laser designate the target, why cannot the plane use LGB from service ceiling?



laser self designation at 65,000 ft is impossible.


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## UKBengali

dbc said:


> laser self designation at 65,000 ft is impossible.




What about observer on the ground then?


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## dbc

UKBengali said:


> What about observer on the ground then?



Only if the laser designation is converted to GPS coordinates and the munitions is dual mode (GPS+Laser).


UKBengali said:


> What about observer on the ground then?



Only if the laser designation is converted to GPS coordinates and the munitions is dual mode (GPS+Laser).

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> Not really. Based on my findings i see most of the SAM ranges between 25-40km. Very few are exceptional. I guess it depends on the requirement of a country's armed forces.




Let us look at MRSAM by supplier:

1/ France - Aster 15 - Up to 30km - although this is described as short-medium and so not specifically only a MRSAM

2/ Russia - Buk - Up to 70km 

3/ China - HQ-16 40km HQ-16B 70km

4/ Iran - Sayyad 2 45km Sayyad 2C - 75km

5/ South Korea - KM-SAM - 40km

Apart from the French Aster which is a short-medium range hybrid all the other MRSAMs have at least 40km range.

Remember the whole idea of a MRSAM is to be able to provide "area defence" to installations like airbases etc that could span many kms across and so that is why MRSAMs these days have at least 40km range and some substantially higher.


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## ghost250

The Bangladesh Air Force will take delivery of MRAPs from the US for the first time. These will be used for base security purposes by the ground warfare unit of the Bangladesh Air Force.





__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.110165433876302/216128716613306

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## Avicenna

ghost250 said:


> The Bangladesh Air Force will take delivery of MRAPs from the US for the first time. These will be used for base security purposes by the ground warfare unit of the Bangladesh Air Force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.110165433876302/216128716613306



It's like wearing Gucci socks with dirty boxers and a t-shirt with holes.

BAF please let us know when the fighters are coming!

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## The Ronin

https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4334.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1V2Qt4cdbok8N7WMnfOFGzFicmXw-rkyorrZarViHbAgh9Zdkkw1XGSrk










UKBengali said:


> Remember the whole idea of a MRSAM is to be able to provide "area defence" to installations like airbases etc that could span many kms across and so that is why MRSAMs these days have at least 40km range and some substantially higher.



Alright you win!! 😅 15 SAMs exceeds 40 km range and 12-13 SAMs in 25-40km range. 😅

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4334.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1V2Qt4cdbok8N7WMnfOFGzFicmXw-rkyorrZarViHbAgh9Zdkkw1XGSrk
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 689358
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright you win!! 😅 15 SAMs exceeds 40 km range and 12-13 SAMs in 25-40km range. 😅




Dude, I have given you evidence to back up my argument and you come out with a sarcastic reply!

What is wrong with you?

Just accept when you are wrong and move on.

This is the end of the matter for me as I cannot be bothered arguing with a child anymore.


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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> Dude, I have given you evidence to back up my argument and you come out with a sarcastic reply!
> 
> What is wrong with you?
> 
> Just accept when you are wrong and move on.
> 
> This is the end of the matter for me as I cannot be bothered arguing with a child anymore.



Oh no no no!! You actually misunderstood!! I tried to make a complete list of all SAMs fall under medium range category from every suppliers. And put them in two team based on the argument between us. And that's how i found that your point is right. The few MRSAM you mentioned, they are not all of them. You know that right? I was actually serious. I admitted that i am wrong. Sarcastic reply? WTF!! Where is sarcasm in my post?  I just felt too lazy to mention every one of them i found and make a list here.

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> Oh no no no!! You actually misunderstood!! I tried to make a complete list of all SAMs fall under medium range category from every suppliers. And put them in two team based on the argument between us. And that's how i found that your point is right. The few MRSAM you mentioned, they are not all of them. You know that right? I was actually serious. I admitted that i am wrong. Sarcastic reply? WTF!! Where is sarcasm in my post?  I just felt too lazy to mention every one of them i found and make a list here.



Ok, I apologize for lashing out.

Anyway this conversation should now be allowed to die as it is not really important and this is a BAF thread and the primary focus should be in aircraft and not SAMs.


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## DalalErMaNodi

UKBengali said:


> Ok, I apologize for lashing out.
> 
> Anyway this conversation should now be allowed to die as it is not really important and this is a BAF thread and the primary focus should be in aircraft and not SAMs.






Those Hisar-O' aren't for BAF to begin with, they're for BA.....


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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Those Hisar-O' aren't for BAF to begin with, they're for BA.....



Hmm if we are getting these Hisar Os why hasn't the media reported on it ?


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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hmm if we are getting these Hisar Os why hasn't the media reported on it ?




What like Indian Media and Rafale ?


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## RadarGudumluMuhimmat

Hisar O + will probably have these features, but I do not think Bangladesh ordered it. Why should Bangladesh buy a product that has not even been put into service in the Turkish Army ? Also, do not worry about the range that much, these systems are used for point defense, the control of the 150-200 km area is the responsibility of the air force planes and Sams.

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## mb444

RadarGudumluMuhimmat said:


> Hisar O + will probably have these features, but I do not think Bangladesh ordered it. Why should Bangladesh buy a product that has not even been put into service in the Turkish Army ? Also, do not worry about the range that much, these systems are used for point defense, the control of the 150-200 km area is the responsibility of the air force planes and Sams.



Absolutely......unfortunately BAF does not have the capacity.


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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> Absolutely......unfortunately BAF does not have the capacity.


Hopefully they will take some time out of providing rideshare and aerial clown show services to work on this.

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## bdslph

are we ending up buy LCA from Indian

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## The Ronin

RadarGudumluMuhimmat said:


> I do not think Bangladesh ordered it. Why should Bangladesh buy a product that has not even been put into service in the Turkish Army ?



The possibility is high. It won't be the first time for Bangladesh to be the launch customer. And looks like Bangladesh evaluated the system. Even many Turkish sources including _Turan Oguz_ reported about possible sale of Hisar system. Any idea about the Aselsan's tweet on 118 million euro deal?









HİSAR-A ve HİSAR-O sistemlerinde son durum


HİSAR projelerinde geliştirilen kritik teknolojiler Aselsan Hisar Program Müdürü Şaban Karakaya, TGRT Haber'de Ahmet Melik Türkeş'e verdiği röportaj sırasında yaptığı




www.defenceturk.net






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016


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## DalalErMaNodi

The Ronin said:


> The possibility is high. It won't be the first time for Bangladesh to be the launch customer. And looks like Bangladesh evaluated the system. Even many Turkish sources including _Turan Oguz_ reported about possible sale of Hisar system. Any idea about the Aselsan's tweet on 118 million euro deal?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HİSAR-A ve HİSAR-O sistemlerinde son durum
> 
> 
> HİSAR projelerinde geliştirilen kritik teknolojiler Aselsan Hisar Program Müdürü Şaban Karakaya, TGRT Haber'de Ahmet Melik Türkeş'e verdiği röportaj sırasında yaptığı
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenceturk.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016






He's talking about Hisar O '+' variant.

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## RadarGudumluMuhimmat

The Ronin said:


> The possibility is high. It won't be the first time for Bangladesh to be the launch customer. And looks like Bangladesh evaluated the system. Even many Turkish sources including _Turan Oguz_ reported about possible sale of Hisar system. Any idea about the Aselsan's tweet on 118 million euro deal?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HİSAR-A ve HİSAR-O sistemlerinde son durum
> 
> 
> HİSAR projelerinde geliştirilen kritik teknolojiler Aselsan Hisar Program Müdürü Şaban Karakaya, TGRT Haber'de Ahmet Melik Türkeş'e verdiği röportaj sırasında yaptığı
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenceturk.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325842419418615810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325699531216982016




Trust me, the types you take into consideration, except Aselsan, are not the ones to be considered. See his reference in his last tweet. I saw Aselsan's tweet, but I think that if there was an air defense system, it would use the phrase air defense system.

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/218292666396911









__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/218364223056422






Looks like Thela gari won't be showcased...














__ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/781574365753601

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/218292666396911
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/218364223056422
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Thela gari won't be showcased...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/781574365753601


Tejas is thela gari though

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Tejas is thela gari though





Tejas is not Thela Gari, it is the one that crashes to add free fireworks to the show.

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## bdslph

JF17 wont participate for political reason

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## DalalErMaNodi

bdslph said:


> JF17 wont participate for political reason





Care to elaborate ? What political reasons ?

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## siegecrossbow

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/218292666396911
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/218364223056422
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Thela gari won't be showcased...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/781574365753601



Just out of curiosity, what’s the source for J-10C entering the air show? Do they know which version (AL-31 or WS-10) will attend the show?


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## DalalErMaNodi

siegecrossbow said:


> Just out of curiosity, what’s the source for J-10C entering the air show? Do they know which version (AL-31 or WS-10) will attend the show?




No Idea but that page has credible sources.... 


J-10C is the front runner and is nearly destined to be the jet that replaces BAF's single engine fleet of F-7s, so it's not exactly a surprise that J-10C will be there.


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## Michael Corleone

siegecrossbow said:


> Just out of curiosity, what’s the source for J-10C entering the air show? Do they know which version (AL-31 or WS-10) will attend the show?


I’ll say shot in the dark

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> I’ll say shot in the dark




Bruh... This comment of yours speculating a 'shot in the dark' on their part is the epitome of 'shot(s) in the dark'.... 



Smh... Pessimistic nigga

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## siegecrossbow

DalalErMaNodi said:


> No Idea but that page has credible sources....
> 
> 
> J-10C is the front runner and is nearly destined to be the jet that replaces BAF's single engine fleet of F-7s, so it's not exactly a surprise that J-10C will be there.



Keep me posted if more info on the deal comes to light! If China exports the WS-10 variant of J-10C then it will be the first completely domestic 4th generation fighter China has offered for export!

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## The Ronin

siegecrossbow said:


> Keep me posted if more info on the deal comes to light! If China exports the WS-10 variant of J-10C then it will be the first completely domestic 4th generation fighter China has offered for export!



Which engine is powering J-10CE? I thought China completely shifted to WS-10 for J-10B and C.


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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Bruh... This comment of yours speculating a 'shot in the dark' on their part is the epitome of 'shot(s) in the dark'....
> 
> 
> 
> Smh... Pessimistic nigga


You’re the Nigga who despised bdmilitary


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> You’re the Nigga who despised bdmilitary





My username also says 'Dalal'.....



Pay attention nigga


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## LKJ86

The Ronin said:


> I thought China completely shifted to WS-10 for J-10B and C.


Yes


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## siegecrossbow

The Ronin said:


> Which engine is powering J-10CE? I thought China completely shifted to WS-10 for J-10B and C.



J-10B was produced in limited numbers since it uses PESA and inferior avionics to the J-10C. The ones actually in service with the PLA use AL-31 engines but one of the J-10Bs was used as a demonstrator for thrust-vectored WS-10 engine.

J-10C has been using AL-31 engines up until very recently (April 2020 I believe) when the latest batch of J-10Cs entered service with WS-10 engines. Personally I believe that J-10CE should use WS-10 to avoid potential limitations by Russian engine manufacturers, but since the J-10C is a single-engine plane, it is probably for the best for the PLAAF to use them for a couple of years just to see how well it performs in service as well as root out bugs and potential pitfalls.

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## Gomig-21

When is the first Su-30MKB arriving to the BAF? Anyone know? That should be quite the exciting arrival when that badass aircraft arrives.

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## The Ronin

Gomig-21 said:


> When is the first Su-30MKB arriving to the BAF? Anyone know? That should be quite the exciting arrival when that badass aircraft arrives.



You don't know? It's already cancelled.


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## Gomig-21

The Ronin said:


> You don't know? It's already cancelled.



I had no idea. WTF happened?! I thought they had signed a contract for 8 of them. Usually once a contract is signed, it's almost never dropped unless there was a breach of the contract itself.


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## Michael Corleone

Gomig-21 said:


> I had no idea. WTF happened?! I thought they had signed a contract for 8 of them. Usually once a contract is signed, it's almost never dropped unless there was a breach of the contract itself.


Never went beyond tender stage

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## DalalErMaNodi

Gomig-21 said:


> When is the first Su-30MKB arriving to the BAF? Anyone know? That should be quite the exciting arrival when that badass aircraft arrives.





Russia found a sugar baby in genocidal Myanmar.

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## The Ronin

Gomig-21 said:


> I had no idea. WTF happened?! I thought they had signed a contract for 8 of them. Usually once a contract is signed, it's almost never dropped unless there was a breach of the contract itself.


 
8 MRCA is history. They were trying to sell us Mi-29 with Sukhoi. And they supported Myanmar for Rohingya issue. Based on various reports now BAF is trying to buy 16 fighters and EFT, Rafale and unknown American jet is the contender i think.


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## Gomig-21

Michael Corleone said:


> Never went beyond tender stage



Huh, I thought they signed the deal. That's too bad.



The Ronin said:


> 8 MRCA is history. They were trying to sell us Mi-29 with Sukhoi. And they supported Myanmar for Rohingya issue. Based on various reports now BAF is trying to buy 16 fighters and EFT, Rafale and unknown American jet is the contender i think.



Interesting. It sounds like most of you fellas prefer the European choice instead of the Russian one or even an American one from what I'm seeing. Certainly don't blame you and I'd be really curious to know which US jet is in the running?!


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## The Ronin

Gomig-21 said:


> Interesting. It sounds like most of you fellas prefer the European choice instead of the Russian one or even an American one from what I'm seeing. Certainly don't blame you and I'd be really curious to know which US jet is in the running?!



We prefer nothing at this moment. The current drama about MRCA made us frustrated and turned BAF into a complete joke!! The current situation is so disappointing that people will be happy with any 4.5 gen fighter except some particular one. Now people are expecting to hear something in our first airshow in 2022. Surprisingly these clowns from BAF is organizing one in Cox's Bazar when they don't even have a good MRCA. And the US fighter could be F/A-18 cause tender was for twin engine jet and we have requirement for a maritime strike squadron. What i told you is based on these news below.









Bangladesh wants to buy combat fighters, Apache helicopters, missile systems from US


US officials in Dhaka say work in progress to ink two agreements to make the purchase happen




www.dhakatribune.com












Dhaka, Paris to boost defence cooperation


Bangladesh and France on Monday stressed the need for enhancing cooperation in the defence sector, prime minister’s press secretary Ihsanul Karim said referring to a meeting of French defence minister Florence Parly with...




www.newagebd.net












Third Bangladesh-UK Strategic Dialogue: overview


Both sides highlighted the deep historic ties between Bangladesh and the United Kingdom and reaffirmed an enduring relationship based on shared values and common goals.




www.gov.uk












Delta Force: Keeping Bengali skies free


AirForces Monthly # April 2013 ; Pages: 76 - 85



defence.pk

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## LKJ86

siegecrossbow said:


> J-10C has been using AL-31 engines up until very recently (April 2020 I believe) when the latest batch of J-10Cs entered service with WS-10 engines. Personally I believe that J-10CE should use WS-10 to avoid potential limitations by Russian engine manufacturers, but since the J-10C is a single-engine plane, it is probably for the best for the PLAAF to use them for a couple of years just to see how well it performs in service as well as root out bugs and potential pitfalls.


Not true.

1. J-10C's batch 04, batch 05, and batch 06 (the latest batch) are using WS-10 engines already.

2. CAC had enough time to make J-10&WS-10 mature enough before they were put into service, as PLAAF can get AL-31 engines if they needed.

3. If WS-10 engine was not mature and powerful enough, how dare CAC developed a J-10B-TVC demonstrator and showed it in Zhuhai Airshow 2018?

4. I don't think China would export J-10C to BD in a hurry.

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## krash

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Looks like Thela gari won't be showcased...



Yeah. Who needs them anyway when you already have the mighty F-7s.

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## DalalErMaNodi

krash said:


> Yeah. Who needs them anyway when you already have the mighty F-7s.




Precisely, They will work in conjunction with multiple squadrons of Crows and Ravens to create floating a Iron curtain of sorts around our borders.


Nobody shall get through, None shall pass.

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## Michael Corleone

LKJ86 said:


> Not true.
> 
> 1. J-10C's batch 04, batch 05, and batch 06 (the latest batch) are using WS-10 engines already.
> 
> 2. CAC had enough time to make J-10&WS-10 mature enough before they were put into service, as PLAAF can get AL-31 engines if they needed.
> 
> 3. If WS-10 engine was not mature and powerful enough, how dare CAC developed a J-10B-TVC demonstrator and showed it in Zhuhai Airshow 2018?
> 
> 4. I don't think China would export J-10C to BD in a hurry.


Not the c but definitely CE variant 
But all four are cleared for export and only c is being made


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## DalalErMaNodi

F-7BGI is our Pride, Amader Ghora Gari,....


> Manually operated Thela Gari




There is no Predator quite as fierce as a Lungi Clad Deshi commanding one of our Ghora Garis.


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## BlackViking

The Ronin said:


> the US fighter could be F/A-18


It is F18...baf team (pilots and engineers) paid a visit last year


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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> It is F18...baf team (pilots and engineers) paid a visit last year



Boeing F/A-18s , pretty good but honestly EFT is the best option


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## Destranator

Guys, the MRCA tender for 8 units was Russia-specific and long expired. It is no longer relevant. Stop basing your judgement on that.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> Guys, the MRCA tender for 8 units was Russia-specific and long expired. It is no longer relevant. Stop basing your judgement on that.





Yeah, SU-30 was not suitable for ride sharing services.

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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Yeah, SU-30 was not suitable for ride sharing services.



Gokada presents significant threat to BAF's business model for the African market.
NYPD should avail CIA assistance to investigate a potential BAF angle to Fahim Saleh's murder.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> Gokada presents significant threat to BAF's business model for the African market.
> NYPD should avail CIA assistance to investigate a potential BAF angle to Fahim Saleh's murder.





Nah, He died for Black Empowerment.



How dare brown scum develop from zero, when privileged 1st world inhabitant negroes can't do anything besides shooting stuff up and push dope.




He died to forge an America, more accepting of Hood rats and drug peddlers.

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> It is F18...baf team (pilots and engineers) paid a visit last year





DalalErMaNodi said:


> F-7BGI is our Pride, Amader Ghora Gari,....
> 
> 
> > Manually operated Thela Gari
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Predator quite as fierce as a Lungi Clad Deshi commanding one of our Ghora Garis.



OOTTAADHUNIKKKK!!!

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Nah, He died for Black Empowerment.
> 
> 
> 
> How dare brown scum develop from zero, when privileged 1st world inhabitant negroes can't do anything besides shooting stuff up and push dope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He died to forge an America, more accepting of Hood rats and drug peddlers.



My dude could of been the next Musk or Bezos , but nah he just had to die


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/221172982775546

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## The Ronin

This FY 4 BAF Mi-171Sh helicopters will be upgraded with Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) systems. BAF is gradually equipping its entire Mi-171 fleet with night vision (FLIR) systems after undertaking the same project with its Bell 212 fleet. Its Italian-origin new generation helicopters are already outfitted with FLIR system and NVG friendly cockpit.



https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4374.pdf

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## Valar.

JohnWick said:


> Air force ?



Oh bhai... peecha chor is thread ka... her haftay tu pangay letha hai, her haftay zaleel hota hai aur her haftay thread ban hota hai aur aglay haftay phir wapis aajata hai. Bas ker.

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## Michael Corleone

Valar. said:


> Oh bhai... peecha chor is thread ka... her haftay tu pangay letha hai, her haftay zaleel hota hai aur her haftay thread ban hota hai aur aglay haftay phir wapis aajata hai. Bas ker.

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> This FY 4 BAF Mi-171Sh helicopters will be upgraded with Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) systems. BAF is gradually equipping its entire Mi-171 fleet with night vision (FLIR) systems after undertaking the same project with its Bell 212 fleet. Its Italian-origin new generation helicopters are already outfitted with FLIR system and NVG friendly cockpit.
> 
> 
> 
> https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4374.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 692504



Very timely initiative. Ensuring night time ride comfort can be a deal breaker in this highly competitive industry.


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## Avicenna

Any updates on the Mig-29s being upgraded in Belarus?

Should be delivered soon I would think given history.

Hopefully they get a new and better camo, preferably in gray like the F-7.


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Any updates on the Mig-29s being upgraded in Belarus?
> 
> Should be delivered soon I would think given history.
> 
> Hopefully they get a new and better camo, preferably in gray like the F-7.


Man Belarus is more unreliable than ukraine. Idk why they sent those there. 
with their political unrest, idk if that helped in slowing of upgrade process


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## ziaulislam

Michael Corleone said:


> Man Belarus is more unreliable than ukraine. Idk why they sent those there.
> with their political unrest, idk if that helped in slowing of upgrade process


honestly better just to give up on migs and look for one solid, reliable platformin 50+ numbers brought in batches with MRO facility at home..

top contenders should be f16, gripen,, j10 and jf-17(if relationship between us get better though unlikley)..these are the only one that would cost <6b $ for 60+ numbers or 4 full time squadrons

BAF would need 4 squadrons at least to counter myanmur and india is 40+ squardons

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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> honestly better just to give up on migs and look for one solid, reliable platformin 50+ numbers brought in batches with MRO facility at home..
> 
> top contenders should be f16, gripen,, j10 and jf-17(if relationship between us get better though unlikley)..these are the only one that would cost <6b $ for 60+ numbers or 4 full time squadrons
> 
> BAF would need 4 squadrons at least to counter myanmur and india is 40+ squardons


I’m hoping they don’t go for paperweight again like EFT, although latest, we can’t afford losing one. We should go for a numbers game. F16 or j10 until economy grows stronger past 2030


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## ziaulislam

Michael Corleone said:


> I’m hoping they don’t go for paperweight again like EFT, although latest, we can’t afford losing one. We should go for a numbers game. F16 or j10 until economy grows stronger past 2030


EFT is more sanctioned likely then f16 or gripen

J10 seems to an option but engine might not be good


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## UKBengali

ziaulislam said:


> EFT is more sanctioned likely then f16 or gripen
> 
> J10 seems to an option but engine might not be good




The only issue with J-10 engine is lifespan. Reliability should be decent as otherwise China would not be using them for their J-10Cs since 2019.

Last I checked it was around 1500 hours estimated as opposed to 6000+ hours for a western fighter.

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## Destranator

Gripen + J-10c is the logical choice to have numbers while balancing quality, supplier reliability, etc.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> The only issue with J-10 engine is lifespan. Reliability should be decent as otherwise China would not be using them for their J-10Cs since 2019.
> 
> Last I checked it was around 1500 hours estimated as opposed to 6000+ hours for a western fighter.


Comparable to or better than what the Russians are doing now.


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Comparable to or better than what the Russians are doing now.



Russian engine tech in terms of reliability and lifespan is not going to get any better, whereas Chinese is in constant improvement.


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## ziaulislam

UKBengali said:


> The only issue with J-10 engine is lifespan. Reliability should be decent as otherwise China would not be using them for their J-10Cs since 2019.
> 
> Last I checked it was around 1500 hours estimated as opposed to 6000+ hours for a western fighter.


Better to just get gripen or used f16s

I would say try to leverage indian suppory and get used f16s with aim120/harpoon 
And that should cover it


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## CHI RULES

ziaulislam said:


> Better to just get gripen or used f16s
> 
> I would say try to leverage indian suppory and get used f16s with aim120/harpoon
> And that should cover it



If u allow me old F16s with V upgrade can only compete in future with adversary.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Russian engine tech in terms of reliability and lifespan is not going to get any better, whereas Chinese is in constant improvement.


Fundings basically. China can afford to pour money in research, Russia can’t. They’ve to balance out everything or make the research the most cruicial stuff for their deterrence. Like that nuclear powered hypersonic missile

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## Destranator

I just love how Amra twists a fact on its head just to sound cool, let alone the pretentious tone towards supplier nations.

The US declined to sell Falcons to BD in the 90s and not the other way around.

*Warning: Do not let the below get your hopes up regarding MRCAs.*






__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/234264444799733

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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> I just love how Amra twists a fact on its head just to sound cool, let alone the pretentious tone towards supplier nations.
> 
> The US declined to sell Falcons to BD in the 90s and not the other way around.
> 
> *Warning: Do not let the below get your hopes up regarding MRCAs.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/234264444799733


Lol he said like 3 months ago that Baf will start receiving J10c in 2023 now he is saying F16 may come instead of J10c...what a joke

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> I just love how Amra twists a fact on its head just to sound cool, let alone the pretentious tone towards supplier nations.
> 
> The US declined to sell Falcons to BD in the 90s and not the other way around.
> 
> *Warning: Do not let the below get your hopes up regarding MRCAs.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/234264444799733


Called him out on it. At this point he’s just writing articles to milk relevancy.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Called him out on it. At this point he’s just writing articles to milk relevancy.



It's embarrassing quite honestly.

Also, really disappointed in Bangladesh/BAF at this point.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> It's embarrassing quite honestly.
> 
> Also, really disappointed in Bangladesh/BAF *at this point.*


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> It's embarrassing quite honestly.
> 
> Also, really disappointed in Bangladesh/BAF at this point.


Yep. I’ve disassociated myself from that page and his looney tendencies

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## Destranator

Destranator said:


> The below is an ideal new fighter fleet composition for BAF to build towards gradually by 2040 (*which will not materialise. Don't get your hopes up from this post or bitch about "pipedreaming"*).
> 
> 
> 2 sqd EFTs (T3)
> 3 sqd Gripen F's with ToT (including SAAB's assistance in building up BAC from scratch, setting up training regimen for technicians, and fixing the aviation university's curriculumn)
> 3 sqd J-10C's
> 
> This composition will benefit in a few major ways:
> 
> Exposure to and compatibility with quality Western aeronautics, avionics and weapon systems, providing qualitative edge over Burma and paving way for upgrades to cutting edge tech in the distant future.
> Access to Western tech not available to Burma (EFTs, Gripens)
> Access to tech not accessible to India (J-10s)
> Redundancy against Western strings/sanctions (J-10s).
> Better understanding of relative advances in Chinese and Western fighter tech.
> Again, the above is what *should* happen and not what *will* happen, thanks to BAF.



Similar to what I had proposed for BAF, Saab is now offering to develop Canada's aviation infrastructure as part of Gripen deal, once again demonstrating Saab's willingness to transfer knowledge and technology to clients.

BAF faggots will of course learn nothing from it and instead attempt to build a useless piston engine trainer for no reason (unlike fighters, primary trainers do not need frequent replacements during war as they do not engage in combat).










Saab offers two aerospace centres in Gripen E proposal for Canada’s Future Fighter


Saab is offering to open two new aerospace centres as part of its Gripen E proposal for Canada's Future Fighter Capability Project.




www.flightglobal.com


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Similar to what I had proposed for BAF, Saab is now offering to develop Canada's aviation infrastructure as part of Gripen deal, once again demonstrating Saab's willingness to transfer knowledge and technology to clients


Canada having its own aviation industry probably also helps.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Canada having its own aviation industry probably also helps.


Lack of rideshare fetish helps the most.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Lack of rideshare fetish helps the most.


Peasant taxi ❤️

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Also, really disappointed in Bangladesh/BAF at this point


When has it ever made you proud except when they won the war or sand patriotic songs with vigor


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## Baibars_1260

What's the principal threat to Bangladesh airspace?

Which is the most likely (potential) adversary for BAF? 

What is Bangladesh's doctrine for air superiority?

My own two cents:
_War scenario 1:_
The primary (though unlikely) adversary would be Myanmar where the BAF would be facing Su 30 SME and Mig 29B and UBs ( F-7s and JF-17s don't count). BAF would possibly be able to ward off any threats though it is doubtful if it could carry out deep penetration strikes with limited capabilities and the Myanmar Air Forces ground defense.
_War scenario 2_
A more likely scenario is that India gets into a two front war with China and Pakistan and invokes the 1972 Mutual Defense Treaty ( renewed) demanding Bangladesh participation in the war. In such a case BAF fighter squadrons would be operating from Indian bases mostly in the South East of Pakistan's IB possibly Jamnagar. Most of BAFs operations would be over the Rann of Kutch or Sindh as PAF activity there would be limited due to its preoccupation with defending the LOC. The marshy salt water wasteland is lightly defended and BAF would be facing PAF F-7s mostly and is likely to inflict substantial losses on Pakistan. Of course Pakistan would likely strike BAF operating bases with SOW and since most of the air combat would be WVR and GI assist BAF might loose some aircraft to skilled PAF pilots

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## ghazi52



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## mb444

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 698471




BD need to ensure greater cooperation and strategic alignment to keep rabid fascist india at bay.

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## Michael Corleone

ghazi52 said:


> View attachment 698471


Nice. Happy to see PAF and BAF still working together. I know that PAF officer have been winning flight safety course consecutively for last two years in BAF

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## The Ronin

New look of Bangladesh Air Force commando unit "41 Squadron" with Taurus SMT-9C 9mm SMG.

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## Avicenna

Nothing to do with BAF but thought it was an interesting video giving the different features of various fighters for Finland's competition. (Super Hornet, Eurofighter and Gripen are there along with Rafale and F-35)

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Nothing to do with BAF but thought it was an interesting video giving the different features of various fighters for Finland's competition. (Super Hornet, Eurofighter and Gripen are there along with Rafale and F-35)



I propose that BAF prioritise Gripens with MRO and assembly facilities as the mainstay of the fleet.
If the Americans try to stiffle GE F404 engine supply for the Gripens, we should offer to also buy used Super Hornets (and forget Eurofighters and any other twin engine fighters) which use the same engine. The Super Hornets would bolster our maritime capabilities many folds.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> I propose that BAF prioritise Gripens with MRO and assembly facilities as the mainstay of the fleet.
> If the American try to stiffle GE F404 engine supply for the Gripens, we should offer to also buy used Super Hornets (and forget Eurofighters and any other twin engine fighters) which use the same engine. The Super Hornets would bolster our maritime capabilities many folds.



Not a bad idea.

Gripen E and Super Hornet share similar engines and provides diversity of source and can be linked to the same overall system as well as share weapons.

The key is access to the munitions. i.e. AMRAAM or Meteor.

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## Destranator

Fun fact: Did you guys know that K-8Ws fly on American Honeywell engines? Looks like we already have dependency on Americans.


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Not a bad idea.
> 
> Gripen E and Super Hornet share similar engines and provides diversity of source and can be linked to the same overall system as well as share weapons.
> 
> The key is access to the munitions. i.e. AMRAAM or Meteor.



What is the pricetag difference (apples to apples) between Gripens and J-10C's?

Aren't Gripens going to be a tad too pricey compared to say a J-10C, for a 'numbers' fighter and not a frontline one? Unless China is unable to supply J-10C...

We'd need at least seven/eight squadrons of these 'numbers' fighters as standardized 'rides', spread around all over our forward AB's.

I realize however that Gripens and Super Hornets can share the same munitions such as AIM-9 and AIM-120's, being NATO standardized. That is a definite plus. Don't know if that trumps the cost disadvantage of the Gripens AND the munitions. 

PL-15's and PL-10's are definitely cheaper (than AIM 120's and AIM-9's, respectively) and we could get ToT for local assembly at least for sure. Not to forget that we can also EVENTUALLY get them from third sources like Pakistan and Turkey (my prediction).


Destranator said:


> Fun fact: Did you guys know that K-8Ws fly on American Honeywell engines? Looks like we already have dependency on Americans.



That is correct. However that engine is like the standard everyman's engine. Every business jet ever made more or less uses this engine and commercial off the shelf parts are available everywhere.

US can't put embargo on the parts. You can get it everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_TFE731#Applications

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> What is the pricetag difference (apples to apples) between Gripens and J-10C's?
> 
> Aren't Gripens going to be a tad too pricey compared to say a J-10C, for a 'numbers' fighter and not a frontline one? Unless China is unable to supply J-10C...
> 
> We'd need at least seven/eight squadrons of these 'numbers' fighters as standardized 'rides', spread around all over our forward AB's.
> 
> I realize however that Gripens and Super Hornets can share the same munitions such as AIM-9 and AIM-120's, being NATO standardized. That is a definite plus. Don't know if that trumps the cost disadvantage of the Gripens AND the munitions. PL-15's and PL-12's are definitely cheaper and we could get ToT for sure. Not to forget that we can also EVENTUALLY get them from third sources like Pakistan and Turkey (my prediction).


Acquisition cost is high but lifetime operational costs are quite low for Gripens mainly thanks to the immortal GE F404/414 engines.

With all due respect to our Chinese friends, Chinese military hardware especially aviation equipment are inherently unreliable. Bangladesh Armed Forces are not happy with their Chinese inventory and are diversifying away wherever possible.
We have lost many servicemen to Chinese equipment malfunction (mortars and tank shells exploding inside barrel, F-7BG bombing itself (this one took the cake)), F-7MBs and PT-6s falling off the sky at random despite limited, measured usage, etc..

Chinese military aviation industry is still largely dependent on stealing IP from overseas as evident by the stark visible similarities of various components (F-7 vs Mig-21, J-10 vs Lavi, J-11 vs Su-27, J-35 vs F-35, etc..).

The fact that J-10s have seen zero export orders to this day despite many poor and middle income countries being in dire need for fourth gen fighter jets is very telling.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Acquisition cost is high but lifetime operational costs are quite low for Gripens mainly thanks to the immortal GE F404/414 engines.
> 
> With all due respect to our Chinese friends, Chinese military hardware especially aviation equipment are inherently unreliable. Bangladesh Armed Forces are not happy with their Chinese inventory and are diversifying away wherever possible.
> We have lost many servicemen to Chinese equipment malfunction (mortars and tank shells exploding inside barrel, F-7BG bombing itself (this one took the cake)), F-7MBs and PT-6s falling off the sky at random despite limited, measured usage, etc..
> 
> Chinese military aviation industry is still largely dependent on stealing IP from overseas as evident by the stark visible similarities of various components (F-7 vs Mig-21, J-10 vs Lavi, J-11 vs Su-27, J-35 vs F-35, etc..).
> 
> The fact that J-10s have seen zero export orders to this day despite many poor and middle income countries being in dire need for fourth gen fighter jets is very telling.



I guess you do have a point and I don't have enough information to qualify what you said either way (except for that one incident where rockets exploded in the wing, took the wing out and the F-7 corkscrewed itself into the ground as we saw in the video earlier this year). It would seem however that they'd improve their quality going forward.

But neighboring AF's are also quite susceptible to these issues due to poor maintenance (IAF being the most glaring example).


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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> I guess you do have a point and I don't have enough information to qualify what you said either way (except for that one incident where rockets exploded in the wing, took the wing out and the F-7 corkscrewed itself into the ground as we saw in the video earlier this year). It would seem however that they'd improve their quality going forward.
> 
> But neighboring AF's are also quite susceptible to these issues due to poor maintenance (IAF being the most glaring example).


IAF and BAF are not comparable as IAF jets log many times more flying hours due to operational needs.

IAF like any other serious air force has heavy emphasis on operational readiness unlike BAF.

IAF's main problem is their maintenance teams cannot keep up with their high operational needs while the fleet is predominantly Russian which is not designed for high serviceability (look up MTBO issues of Russian jets).

This is part of the reason why IAF keep screaming for more fighter jets.

While they may be losing more jets, IAF pilots have infinitely more flying experience (flight hours) compared to BAF.

In the meanwhile BAF imbeciles are content with thumbtwiddling, Wing Commanders flying Yak-130s for logging hours, and offering taxi services to UN.

Any confrontation with an enemy air force will come as a rude shock for BAF and delusional Bangladeshis in general.


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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> IAF and BAF are not comparable as IAF jets log many times more flying hours due to operational needs.
> 
> IAF like any other serious air force has heavy emphasis on operational readiness unlike BAF.
> 
> IAF's main problem is their maintenance teams cannot keep up with their high operational needs while the fleet is predominantly Russian which is not designed for high serviceability (look up MTBO issues of Russian jets).
> 
> This is part of the reason why IAF keep screaming for more fighter jets.
> 
> While they may be losing more jets, IAF pilots have infinitely more flying experience (flight hours) compared to BAF.
> 
> In the meanwhile BAF imbeciles are content with thumbtwiddling, Wing Commanders flying Yak-130s for logging hours, and offering taxi services to UN.
> 
> Any confrontation with an enemy air force will come as a rude shock for BAF and delusional Bangladeshis in general.



Agreed on all points and sadly - what you say is all 100% true.

Changes have to come from the top - and with the addition of an air chief who is both professional and has a spine to ask for what he wants from the Chief of Armed Services and the PM. 

None of this will happen soon I'm afraid.

Hobbling our Air Defence as a deterrent is the number one prerogative of our giant neighbor.

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## Indos

Looking forward for Bangladesh next Airforce acquisition but maybe Haseena wants to follow Malaysian path in decreasing defense spending for some time to focus on economic and other importand things (like education).

Malaysian defense spending is around 3 billion USD in 2019 while it was 4.5 billion USD in 2014. It is despite current GDP figure is greater than it was in 2014.


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## Destranator

Indos said:


> Looking forward for Bangladesh next Airforce acquisition but maybe Haseena wants to follow Malaysian path in decreasing defense spending for some time to focus on economic and other importand things (like education).
> 
> Malaysian defense spending is around 3 billion USD in 2019 while it was 4.5 billion USD in 2014. It is despite current GDP figure is greater than it was in 2014.


This would make sense if BA and BN were sitting idle but they have completely transformed themselves in the last 10 years or so. It is BAF which is our Achilles heel.


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## The Ronin

Destranator said:


> Fun fact: Did you guys know that K-8Ws fly on American Honeywell engines? Looks like we already have dependency on Americans.



Correct fact: K-8W also uses Ukrainian AI-25TLK (DV-2) engine or Chinese WS-11 copy. You are obsessed with Gripen. 😂 Is this another account of Al Beruni? 😂

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Correct fact: K-8W also uses Ukrainian AI-25TLK (DV-2) engine or Chinese WS-11 copy. You are obsessed with Gripen. 😂 *Is this another account of Al Beruni? 😂*


Is my English that bad?

Gripen is by far the best all-round option (reliability, life time cost, TOT possibility, NATO compatibility,, etc..). BAF should build its backbone with a single engine fighter first and worry about one/half squadron of fancy high performance jets later as one single squadron will make little difference. But then again this is BAF we are talking about.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Is my English that bad?
> 
> Gripen is by far the best all-round option (reliability, life time cost, TOT possibility, NATO compatibility,, etc..). BAF should build its backbone with a single engine fighter first and worry about one/half squadron of fancy high performance jets later as one single squadron will make little difference. But then again this is BAF we are talking about.




We can thank @Avicenna who first came up with this plane as ideal for BAF taking into account cost, capability and geopolitics.

2 squadrons(32) of Gripens with 2-3 Global Eye AWACs and BAF would have a small but very potent airforce way better than MAF and gives India something to think about.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> I propose that BAF prioritise Gripens with MRO and assembly facilities as the mainstay of the fleet.
> If the Americans try to stiffle GE F404 engine supply for the Gripens, we should offer to also buy used Super Hornets (and forget Eurofighters and any other twin engine fighters) which use the same engine. The Super Hornets would bolster our maritime capabilities many folds.


Bro like that we have to buy every model to keep everyone happy 😆

Guys fodder for thought
Mig 29s have a service life of 2500 hours, let’s assume 4000 extra with extensive modifications even then, with stock planes you’re only flying about 6.94 hours a month
If f18 super hornet has a service life of 10k hours, that means in a service life of 30 years the get flies 20hrs every month.
Not a bad deal at all for a small Air Force
Gripen has 8000 hours, Sweden plans to operate for 50 years... divide 8000/50 and divide the result with 12 and you get your per month flight hours, roughly 13 hours

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Bro like that we have to buy every model to keep everyone happy 😆
> 
> Guys fodder for thought
> Mig 29s have a service life of 2500 hours, let’s assume 4000 extra with extensive modifications even then, with stock planes you’re only flying about 6.94 hours a month
> If f18 super hornet has a service life of 10k hours, that means in a service life of 30 years the get flies 20hrs every month.
> Not a bad deal at all for a small Air Force


There is no equivalent to the US.
Besides, we have need for maritime strike aircraft. Why not kill two birds with one stone?

I would not mind if BAF dumps the MiGs entirely provided we get in some fillers quickly. Used Gripens (as @UKBengali suggested earlier elsewhere) and Super Hornets would help.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> There is no equivalent to the US.
> Besides, we have need for maritime strike aircraft. Why not kill two birds with one stone?


Yeah but already obsolete platform isn’t a good idea when you intend to keep them for long time. Best bet is to buy reconditioned
Our only real options
Gripen, EFT 
Possible inclusion if we invest heavily in American camp
F35
If we invest and willing to wait then 
Tempest, TFX, KFX

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Yeah but already obsolete platform isn’t a good idea when you intend to keep them for long time. Best bet is to buy reconditioned
> Our only real options
> Gripen, EFT
> Possible inclusion if we invest heavily in American camp
> F35
> If we invest and willing to wait then
> Tempest, TFX, KFX


Super Hornet is obsolete? 

Let's not discuss Fifth gen just yet. It is BAF...lol.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Super Hornet is obsolete?


Kind of is... like f16 block 70+
They’re good for now but who’s to guarantee they’re good for more than 10+ years
Already lacks in kinematic performance, the only saving grace is avionics and sensors and now that f35 is operational there dev would stop


Destranator said:


> Used Gripens (as @UKBengali suggested earlier elsewhere) and Super Hornets would hel


Swedes don’t want to sell used

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## Avicenna

Again off topic but this time related to Canada's fighter program: This time Super Hornet, Gripen and F-35.

A well done video.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Kind of is... like f16 block 70+
> They’re good for now but who’s to guarantee they’re good for more than 10+ years
> Already lacks in kinematic performance, the only saving grace is avionics and sensors and now that f35 is operational there dev would stop
> 
> Swedes don’t want to sell used





Michael Corleone said:


> Kind of is... like f16 block 70+
> They’re good for now but who’s to guarantee they’re good for more than 10+ years
> Already lacks in kinematic performance, the only saving grace is avionics and sensors and now that f35 is operational there dev would stop
> 
> Swedes don’t want to sell used


Good enough to bomb bharat mata back to stone age as they suck at network centric warfare (Abhinandan debacle). I agree however that EFT + Gripen is a better combo overall.
F35 is not value for money at all.
It will take another 20 years before fifth gen fighters become mainstream across the world. Even bharat mata thanks to its red tape behemoth bureaucracy is not getting fifth gen fighter before 2035 despite having funds. They have not fully figured out MMRCAs yet.

Regarding used Gripens, as @UKBengali proposed, BAF should actively pursue South Africa's fleet that they are stuggling to maintain due to severe fund constraints (much worse than BAF's). Most of the fleet is grounded at any given time.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Good enough to bomb bharat mata back to stone age as they suck at network centric warfare (Abhinandan debacle). I agree however that EFT + Gripen is a better combo overall.
> F35 is not value for money at all.
> It will take another 20 years before fifth gen fighters become mainstream across the world. Even bharat mata thanks to its red tape behemoth bureaucracy is not getting fifth gen fighter before 2035 despite having funds. They have not fully figured out MMRCAs yet.
> 
> Regarding used Gripens, as @UKBengali proposed, BAF should actively pursue South Africa's fleet that they are stuggling to maintain due to severe fund constraints (much worse than BAF's). Most of the fleet is grounded at any given time.



Guys before we bomb Bharat Mata back to stone age (Tall order by any measure and hopefully limited to non-civilian, strategic and military installations), we should find ways to lessen their strangle hold of influence on our AF. What I hear everyday from good sources is not encouraging. How did they insert agents and fifth columnists to hobble our AF at this level? First lets figure that out.

Of course we need a non-goof-off AF chief with some spine and the right pull at high levels too.

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## Destranator

Destranator said:


> Good enough to bomb bharat mata back to stone age. I agree however that EFT + Gripen is a better combo overall.
> F35 is not value for money at all.
> It will take another 20 years before fifth gen fighters become mainstream across the world. Even bharat mata with its red tep behemoth bureaucracy is not getting fifth gen fighter before 2035. They have not fully figured out MMRCAs yet.





Bilal9 said:


> Guys before we bomb Bharat Mata back to stone age (Tall order by any measure and hopefully limited to non-civilian, strategic and military installations), we should find ways to lessen their strangle hold of influence on our AF. What I hear everyday from good sources is not encouraging. How did they insert agents and fifth columnists to hobble our AF at this level? First lets figure that out.
> 
> Of course we need a non-goof-off AF chief with some spine and the right pull at high levels too.



Well, the "bomb back to stone age" remark was tongue in cheek to add emphasis on the need for and advantage of having platforms that are interconnected which can overpower enemy assets that are stronger on paper. Network connected Super Hornets and Gripens can adequately counter Indian Eastern Air and Naval Commands.

Regarding BAF being spineless, let us not buy into Indian/Pakistani style narrative of blaming "infiltration" by foreign countries for everything thst is going wrong. I am sure foreign agencies have some level access to Bangladeshi military but they can never have enough access to gain "stranglehold" as otherwise you would be seeing bloodshed every now and then. Let us focus on our fixing our own deficiencies.

BAF has been a spineless organisation since Zia sent airmen en masse to Forces Gaol 1977.

BAF needs administrators installed from BA and BN to revamp its organisational culture; this will weed out most of the inefficiencies.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Good enough to bomb bharat mata back to stone age as they suck at network centric warfare (Abhinandan debacle). I agree however that EFT + Gripen is a better combo overall.
> F35 is not value for money at all.
> It will take another 20 years before fifth gen fighters become mainstream across the world. Even bharat mata thanks to its red tape behemoth bureaucracy is not getting fifth gen fighter before 2035 despite having funds. They have not fully figured out MMRCAs yet.
> 
> Regarding used Gripens, as @UKBengali proposed, BAF should actively pursue South Africa's fleet that they are stuggling to maintain due to severe fund constraints (much worse than BAF's). Most of the fleet is grounded at any given time.



Just back in September this year, Sweden wanted to sell 12 Gripen C/Ds to Croatia. They want to dump some of their older Gripen Cs in favour of the new Gripen Es in production.

If BD really went for it, it could easily get willing sellers for 2 squadrons(32) of 2nd hand Gripen Cs, then get Sweden to upgrade them with AESA radar and new electronics and also get a good number of Meteor BVRAAMS.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Just back in September this year, Sweden wanted to sell 12 Gripen C/Ds to Croatia. They want to dump some of their older Gripen Cs in favour of the new Gripen Es in production.
> 
> If BD really went for it, it could easily get willing sellers for 2 squadrons(32) of 2nd hand Gripen Cs, then get Sweden to upgrade them with AESA radar and new electronics and also get a good number of Meteor BVRAAMS.


I am sure if BAF keeps an open channel of dialogue with Saab, they can work something out for BAF. Sweden is aggressively trying to gain foothold in new markets and offering full support package to everyone. Selling to BAF will encourage many other developing countries to pursue Gripens so it is a win win.

Someone needs to take charge to slap BAF muppets around on a daily basis. A Joint Chief of Staff's Office would do wonders.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Good enough to bomb bharat mata back to stone age as they suck at network centric warfare (Abhinandan debacle). I agree however that EFT + Gripen is a better combo overall.
> F35 is not value for money at all.
> It will take another 20 years before fifth gen fighters become mainstream across the world. Even bharat mata thanks to its red tape behemoth bureaucracy is not getting fifth gen fighter before 2035 despite having funds. They have not fully figured out MMRCAs yet.
> 
> Regarding used Gripens, as @UKBengali proposed, BAF should actively pursue South Africa's fleet that they are stuggling to maintain due to severe fund constraints (much worse than BAF's). Most of the fleet is grounded at any given time.


F35 prices came down comparable to eft now


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> F35 prices came down comparable to eft now


Yes but it is a single engine fighter. It cannot perform the role of a twin engine fighter.

You also have to jump through various hoops to gets spares, ammo and upgrades as F-35 is highly sensitive. Not value for money at all.

Better go with F/A-18 or EFT for maritime strike role. Or just forget twin engine fighters all together and focus on inducting and multiplying Gripen squadrons with local assembly.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Yes but it is a single engine fighter. It cannot perform the role of a twin engine fighter.
> 
> You also have to jump through various hoops to gets spares, ammo and upgrades as F-35 is highly sensitive. Not value for money at all.
> 
> Better go with F/A-18 or EFT for maritime strike role. Or just forget twin engine fighters all together and focus on inducting and multiplying Gripen squadrons with local assembly.


Question is does Bangladesh really needs a twin engine and if a compromise in quantity for twin engine worth it? I don’t think so tbh

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Question is does Bangladesh really needs a twin engine and if a compromise in quantity for twin engine worth it? I don’t think so tbh


Mainly needed for:
- breaking naval blockade. BN Subs and ships alone cannot sustain themselves against aircraft carriers, IAF and land based artillery on Indian coasts and Islands (A-N, etc.)
- Disabling bases/assets in enemy territory.
- taking on Rafales/Su-30s WVR.

Single engine fighters cannot effectively fulfill these roles.

No need to compromise quantity. Restrict twin engine fighters to zero to 2 squadrons until 3-4 squadrons of single engine 4+ gen fighters are inducted.

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## BlackViking

Apparently baf thinks gripen engine is underpowered and not worth the money 😝

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Apparently baf thinks gripen engine is underpowered and not worth the money 😝








What’s better than an airforce? 
bd experimental prototype, we will have a space force at last

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Apparently baf thinks gripen engine is *underpowered and not worth the money *😝



That is exactly what BA and BN think of BAF.

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## mb444

BlackViking said:


> Apparently baf thinks gripen engine is underpowered and not worth the money 😝



It is probably is as a maritime jet.... but we could do worse...


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/245839493642228

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> It is probably is as a maritime jet.... but we could do worse...


There is no need for the entire fleet to be maritime strike capable.
Gripens connected by network are decent platforms for air defence.
If BAF starts working with Saab this year they can be in a position to replace the F-7s (besides raising new squadrons) with locally assembled Gripens by 2035.

Don't be hopeful though.
Chances are that we will only get 8-16 additional fighters by 2030 for 16 December acrobatics.


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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> There is no need for the entire fleet to be maritime strike capable.
> Gripens connected by network are decent platforms for air defence.
> If BAF starts working with Saab this year they can be in a position to replace the F-7s (besides raising new squadrons) with locally assembled Gripens by 2035.
> 
> Don't be hopeful though.
> Chances are that we will only get 8-16 additional fighters by 2030 for 16 December acrobatics.



Who says that Gripen is not maritime capable?

With it’s inflight refuelling capability and ability to launch anti-ship missiles like RBS-15F with a range of 300 km, it can loiter for 1-2 hours deep in the Bay of Bengal protecting BN assets.

The single GE/ Volvo engine has not had a single engine failure in over 20 years of operation and so no worries there.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Who says that Gripen is not maritime capable?
> 
> With it’s inflight refuelling capability and ability to launch anti-ship missiles like RBS-15F with a range of 300 km, it can loiter for 1-2 hours deep in the Bay of Bengal protecting BN assets.
> 
> The single GE/ Volvo engine has not had a single engine failure in over 20 years of operation and so no worries there.


Well, although not incapable, Gripen is not designed for dedicated maritime strike role in the traditional sense.

Ideally you would want longer range and dedicated sea corrosion-resistant airframes for maritime strike role. Due to Gripen's limited range, BAF would have to expose its refuellers to significant risk when supporting maritime strike against an Indian naval blockade near A-N islands.
However, attaining such deep strike capabilities should not be top priority as we need to sort out aerial air defence first which network connected Gripens can ensure.


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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Well, although not incapable, Gripen is not designed for dedicated maritime strike role in the traditional sense.
> 
> Ideally you would want longer range and dedicated sea corrosion-resistant airframes for maritime strike role. Due to Gripen's limited range, BAF would have to expose its refuellers to significant risk when supporting maritime strike against an Indian naval blockade near A-N islands.
> However, attaining such deep strike capabilities should not be top priority as we need to sort out aerial air defence first which network connected Gripens can ensure.



Gripen will fly at 10-15,000 feet cruise altitude when supporting the BN out deep in the Bay of Bengal. No chance of corrosion from sea water at these altitudes as the Gripens will use stand-off anti-ship missiles to attack their targets from hundreds of kms away.

Refuellers would operate no more than 3-400 kms out from BD coastline near Myanmar and not India and would be protected by fighters from nearest BAF airbases. The fighter protection can stay with the refuellers for many hours as they themselves can be refuelled from the same refuellers.

BD needs to think of Gripen as a true multi-role fighter that can do it all, when supported by other assets like AWACS and Refuellers.

PS - BAF should look to purchase around 2 A330 MRT refuellers from Airbus at a cost of around 300 million US dollars each. They are monsters that can stay on station for several hours and refuel a dozen or so Gripens on each station.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Well, although not incapable, Gripen is not designed for dedicated maritime strike role in the traditional sense.
> 
> Ideally you would want longer range and dedicated sea corrosion-resistant airframes for maritime strike role. Due to Gripen's limited range, BAF would have to expose its refuellers to significant risk when supporting maritime strike against an Indian naval blockade near A-N islands.
> However, attaining such deep strike capabilities should not be top priority as we need to sort out aerial air defence first which network connected Gripens can ensure.



The images say it all.











Lotta info in those 2 pics.

Also, would need to do Ghusl if I ever saw the above pic in BAF colors!

@UKBengali

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Well, although not incapable, Gripen is not designed for dedicated maritime strike role in the traditional sense.
> 
> Ideally you would want longer range and dedicated sea corrosion-resistant airframes for maritime strike role. Due to Gripen's limited range, BAF would have to expose its refuellers to significant risk when supporting maritime strike against an Indian naval blockade near A-N islands.
> However, attaining such deep strike capabilities should not be top priority as we need to sort out aerial air defence first which network connected Gripens can ensure.


Tbh with the limited depth of Bay of Bengal I wouldn’t sweat about deep strike. Bangladesh’s posture will always be defensive (in this case preventing a blockade) easily solvable by gripen
BAF current approach to get the “latest cutting edge” is a wet dream at best since EFT doesn’t guarantee technological edge for the next 30 years. 4th gen is increasingly obsolete. Force multiplication should be the focus and gripen does it properly probably better than j10

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Gripen will fly at 10-15,000 feet cruise altitude when supporting the BN out deep in the Bay of Bengal. No chance of corrosion from sea water at these altitudes as the Gripens will use stand-off anti-ship missiles to attack their targets from hundreds of kms away.
> 
> Refuellers would operate no more than 3-400 kms out from BD coastline near Myanmar and not India and would be protected by fighters from nearest BAF airbases. The fighter protection can stay with the refuellers for many hours as they themselves can be refuelled from the same refuellers.
> 
> BD needs to think of Gripen as a true multi-role fighter that can do it all, when supported by other assets like AWACS and Refuellers.
> 
> PS - BAF should look to purchase around 2 A330 MRT refuellers from Airbus at a cost of around 300 million US dollars each. They are monsters that can stay on station for several hours and refuel a dozen or so Gripens on each station.


Still streched range wise (800 km) as A-N is 1100 km away. It would be quite painful to refuel so many times.

I would rather use Gripens to protect the refuellers and let a twin engine fighter take on the blockade.

Again, to reiterate, attaining deep maritime strike capabilities is not a top priority strategically speaking.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> The images say it all.
> 
> View attachment 702745
> 
> 
> View attachment 702747
> 
> 
> Lotta info in those 2 pics.
> 
> Also, would need to do Ghusl if I ever saw the above pic in BAF colors!
> 
> @UKBengali



Does not replicate the BoB context:






We need to keep the line of blockade clear for our ships to sail in and out..


Michael Corleone said:


> Tbh with the limited depth of Bay of Bengal I wouldn’t sweat about deep strike. Bangladesh’s posture will always be defensive (in this case preventing a blockade) easily solvable by gripen
> BAF current approach to get the “latest cutting edge” is a wet dream at best since EFT doesn’t guarantee technological edge for the next 30 years. 4th gen is increasingly obsolete. Force multiplication should be the focus and gripen does it properly probably better than j10



An Indian Naval Blockade would not be constrained by depth (see image above). The idea of a blockade is to block ships from sailing in and out of Bangladesh. India can enforce this 1100 km away from BD coast just to stretch out Bangladesh's military capabilities. You see what moronic leaders of 1947 deprived us of when they let go of A-N islands?

As for fifth gen: IAF will be a predominantly 4th gen fleet till 2040 so let us not worry about obsolescence just yet.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Still streched range wise (800 km) as A-N is 1100 km away. It would be quite painful to refuel so many times.
> 
> I would rather use Gripens to protect the refuellers and let a twin engine fighter take on the blockade.
> 
> Again, to reiterate, attaining deep maritime strike capabilities is not a top priority strategically speaking.



Gripen C has combat range of 800km and so it can fly this distance, carry out whatever it needs to and then return back to be refuelled.
As to anti-ship strike it can stay hundreds of kms out from the Indian ships and still hit them with missiles and so more likely would need to fly 5-600km.

Why would BAF need the massive expense and logistical headache of a twin-engine fighter when just 2 A330 MRTT refuellers can turn Gripen into a fully-capable deep-strike aircraft?
Each refueller can stay out beyond Teknaf at 300km, stay on station for 4 hours and refuel twice a dozen Gripen Cs.

It is a no brainer to eventually add refuelling capability if BAF wants this capability against IN using a single fighter like Gripen. Yes BAF needs to focus on air-defence first as you say but deep strike in Bay of Bengal against IN is the logical next step.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Does not replicate the BoB context:
> 
> View attachment 702771
> 
> 
> We need to keep the line of blockade clear for our ships to sail in and out..
> 
> 
> An Indian Naval Blockade would not be constrained by depth (see image above). The idea of a blockade is to block ships from sailing in and out of Bangladesh. India can enforce this 1100 km away from BD coast just to stretch out Bangladesh's military capabilities. You see what moronic leaders of 1947 deprived us of when they let go of A-N islands?
> 
> As for fifth gen: IAF will be a predominantly 4th gen fleet till 2040 so let us not worry about obsolescence just yet.


Bd has a bypass in this blockade if they have any deal with myanmar for bd shipping lanes to go through their waters, if such is still not the case then bd could use its navy to accompany its commercial shipping and pass through myanmar as long as they keep moving. 
I would focus on air defence frigates and submarines 16 AD frigates with 8 submarines will punch a hole through any blockade by india

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd has a bypass in this blockade if they have any deal with myanmar for bd shipping lanes to go through their waters, if such is still not the case then bd could use its navy to accompany its commercial shipping and pass through myanmar as long as they keep moving.
> I would focus on air defence frigates and submarines 16 AD frigates with 8 submarines will punch a hole through any blockade by india



16 AD frigates will probably need to wait till 2040 to build up.

You are right to defeat IN blockade BD would need around this number of AD frigates as the 6 planned are nowhere near enough.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd has a bypass in this blockade if they have any deal with myanmar for bd shipping lanes to go through their waters, if such is still not the case then bd could use its navy to accompany its commercial shipping and pass through myanmar as long as they keep moving.
> I would focus on air defence frigates and submarines 16 AD frigates with 8 submarines will punch a hole through any blockade by india





UKBengali said:


> 16 AD frigates will probably need to wait till 2040 to build up.
> 
> You are right to defeat IN blockade BD would need around this number of AD frigates as the 6 planned are nowhere near enough.


Please also consider the possibility of BN frigates taking hits from IN maritime strike aircraft, carrier battle groups, and potentially land based AShMs launched from Indian mainland coasts or A-N Islands. BAF would have a lot of work cut out for them to support BN if we want to be able to *maintain* open shipping lines against a naval blockade.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Please also consider the possibility of BN frigates taking hits from IN maritime strike aircraft, carrier battle groups, and potentially land based AShMs launched from Indian mainland coasts or A-N Islands. BAF would have a lot of work cut out for them to support BN if we want to be able to *maintain* open shipping lines against a naval blockade.



Yes BN cannot do it alone and needs to be supported by the BAF.

That is why over the medium term(5-10 years), BAF needs to get refuelling capability to allow it's fighters to fly deep into the Bay of Bengal.

Refurbished Gripen Cs are the ideal plane when you factor in cost, capability, geopolitics and obsolescence.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> 16 AD frigates will probably need to wait till 2040 to build up.
> 
> You are right to defeat IN blockade BD would need around this number of AD frigates as the 6 planned are nowhere near enough.


I’m sure 6 is to complement current fleet of 8-10 frigates. They’ll surely build more 
I wonder about subs though, former navy officers did say submarines will be made locally


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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> I’m sure 6 is to complement current fleet of 8-10 frigates. They’ll surely build more
> I wonder about subs though, former navy officers did say submarines will be made locally



Well making subs is no picnic or walk in the park. We will need intense level of ToT and from looking at experiences of India and more importantly Pakistan, this is a steep challenge to climb technically. Lot of firsts.

Maybe some of the Pakistani Naval expert brothers including @Quwa bhai can comment.



UKBengali said:


> That is why over the medium term(5-10 years), BAF needs to get refuelling capability to allow it's fighters to fly deep into the Bay of Bengal.



Maritime strike (and underway mission refueling capability) is something I have been advocating for years. Though our wartime stance is mainly defensive in nature, some of the offense committed by other belligerent actors (neighbors) will come from locations deep within the Bay of Bengal. We have to deter that somehow. We are very poorly equipped for that eventuality and scenario, whether from shoreline offense or naval offense viewpoints.

In the time of conflicts, we don't have _any_ air assets that can do extended patrols and enforce air-superiority around our territorial sea limits (or land limits, for that matter), either by themselves or using refueling. AWACS - even on a smaller scale (which Pakistan has acquired, along with much larger AWACS early warning platforms) is some sort of deterrent. The possibility of belligerents breaching our territory is not as improbable as everyone thinks it is. Right now breaching our territory is a cakewalk. Are we going to keep it that way?? Good question.

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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> Well making subs is no picnic or walk in the park. We will need intense level of ToT and from looking at experiences of India and more importantly Pakistan, this is a steep challenge to climb technically. Lot of firsts.
> 
> Maybe some of the Pakistani Naval expert brothers including @Quwa bhai can comment.
> 
> 
> 
> Maritime strike (and underway mission refueling capability) is something I have been advocating for years. Though our wartime stance is mainly defensive in nature, some of the offense committed by other belligerent actors (neighbors) will come from locations deep within the Bay of Bengal. We have to deter that somehow. We are very poorly equipped for that eventuality and scenario, whether from shoreline offense or naval offense viewpoints.
> 
> In the time of conflicts, we don't have _any_ air assets that can do extended patrols and enforce air-superiority around our territorial sea limits (or land limits, for that matter), either by themselves or using refueling. AWACS - even on a smaller scale (which Pakistan has acquired, along with much larger AWACS early warning platforms) is some sort of deterrent. The possibility of belligerents breaching our territory is not as improbable as everyone thinks it is. Right now breaching our territory is a cakewalk. Are we going to keep it that way?? Good question.




You are being too kind. BAF currently lacks any kind of offensive capacity, BN has rudementary offensive capacity and BA has limited offensive capacity.

BD is fairly exposed and defensive posture self imposed due to economic reality needs to be gradually relaxed and we need to start taking defense seriously. Effective defence means that we need to fight in the enemies territory. The war must start and end there.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> You are being too kind. BAF currently lacks any kind of offensive capacity, BN has rudementary offensive capacity and BA has limited offensive capacity.
> 
> BD is fairly exposed and defensive posture self imposed due to economic reality needs to be gradually relaxed and we need to start taking defense seriously. Effective defence means that we need to fight in the enemies territory. The war must start and end there.


I would like to disagree. BA at best can defend the land for a couple of months (6months at most) in a conventional war, I don’t see them being a offensive force at all, they’ll be able to cut off chickens neck and consolidate eastern holdings but they launch a complete invasion to West Bengal and beyond. 
Navy too lacks behind despite huge improvement, will be able to hold for a few weeks against india, If we lose our state, it will be because of BAF. They’ll be watching on their radar screen unable to scramble if india viewed us like it does Pakistan.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> You are being too kind. BAF currently lacks any kind of offensive capacity, BN has rudementary offensive capacity and BA has limited offensive capacity.
> 
> BD is fairly exposed and defensive posture self imposed due to economic reality needs to be gradually relaxed and we need to start taking defense seriously. Effective defence means that we need to fight in the enemies territory. The war must start and end there.





Michael Corleone said:


> I would like to disagree. BA at best can defend the land for a couple of months (6months at most) in a conventional war, I don’t see them being a offensive force at all, they’ll be able to cut off chickens neck and consolidate eastern holdings but they launch a complete invasion to West Bengal and beyond.
> Navy too lacks behind despite huge improvement, will be able to hold for a few weeks against india, If we lose our state, it will be because of BAF. They’ll be watching on their radar screen unable to scramble if india viewed us like it does Pakistan.



Well realizing that we have problems and gaps is a first step in resolving these gaps.

I'd be interested in the future steps (if any) the armed forces are taking - both operations and doctrine-wise. That is the crying need of the day, to look at inventive solutions to large military problems, such as keeping our sea lanes open for one thing and having the military wherewithal to enforce such doctrine.

Obviously these steps cannot take place in a vacuum, we need to hold talks with China in this regard. The Chinese Defence Minister arriving in Dhaka (even if he did not) is an excellent move, shows that they have interest. Whether his arrival was brushed off because of the resulting hoopla of the Godi Media, we don't know. But hopefully, covert talks are indeed underway.

IMHO - giving China refuel and patrol rights for their subs in our sea territory may not be a bad thing, as would be giving them rights to install a 19.8 KHz VLF/LF listening station, just like we gave the Indians. We need to make this more overt, if the belligerence from Indian side increases. I'm sure the PLA Navy would appreciate the favor to patrol in our waters, whether covertly or even overtly (in terms of 'friendly visits' every month). This is one way to counteract belligerence from neighbors. Balance in terms of geo-politics.

But I think the time is long since past where India or their media gets to call the shots about our defence or foreign policy. Someone needs to give Godi media a memo to worry more about China, rather than try to bully Bangladesh. All the a$$-whooping they got in Galwan and Aksai Chin wasn't clear enough, it seems.

We know our territory, borderlands and on-the-ground, close-to-the-ground realities (meaning military weaknesses and strengths), but when we start talking about clearer qualitative edges in future battleground techniques and technology and bigger doctrinal and strategy issues, we cannot resolve these issues in practical low cost fashion without consulting the Chinese, whether it be Navy or Army. Air Force in our case is still a question mark unless the 'disruptive change' in BAF with 4.5 gen. fighter induction actually occurs, which we've been hoping for, for a while now.

Push comes to shove, the military futures of China and Bangladesh are woven together - there is no doubt, as is our commercial and economic futures. That with Pakistan is as well, but Hasina's politics is preventing her from doing this. She can't see the big picture, the forest for the trees.

Ultimately, the military reality between our neighbors and us need to be re-cast in light of our economic development. Even if a single bullet is not fired - the intra-neighbor politics need to be re-assessed where their interference in our foreign policy (and intra-nation trade) is significantly lessened and their pundits and public need be informed as such. And any future adventurism in terms of refugee push in from Myanmar must not be allowed to happen, period.

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## Destranator

@Michael Corleone Even Defseca has given up on fighter jet procurement beyond the approved 16 units before 2025  :





__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/249542046605306





Despite my low opinions on BAF, I am still positive they will figure out single engine replacements by 2025 as the F-7MBs need urgent replacement. Actual induction is a different story.

Only Gripens, J-10s and F-16s fit the bill of "cost-effective fighters" as sought by Serniabat.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> @Michael Corleone Even Defseca has given up on fighter jet procurement beyond the approved 16 units before 2025  :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/249542046605306
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite my low opinions on BAF, I am still positive they will figure out single engine replacements by 2025 as the F-7MBs need urgent replacement. Actual induction is a different story.
> 
> Only Gripens, J-10s and F-16s fit the bill of "cost-effective fighters" as sought by Serniabat.


lol looks like i'm right... told them... didn't agree lool

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## Avicenna

Thoughts?


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Thoughts?


bangladesh will maintain commercial stuff, they won't get military maintenance training if they don't buy american stuff.

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> Thoughts?




" BAF isn't weak or strong " Eh this is where I have to disagree , BAF can't even defend against wannabe North Korea

But yeah the upcoming MRCA fighter will probably be western , I'm not sure when BAF will announce that they have made a deal. 

The later we make a deal the more time it will take for our pilots to get use to the fighter jet itself. But both America and China is trying to control Bangladesh some way or the another. 

But under this current Biden administration who's pro CCP I feel like Biden might let China take over Bangladesh's markets. Idk we'll see


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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> But under this current *Biden administration who's pro CCP* I feel like Biden might let China take over Bangladesh's markets. Idk we'll see


LOL...someone tends to buy into American right wing propaganda.
Watch/read independent and objective news sources such as The Intercept, Majority Report, Secular Talk, TMBS, Rising with Krystall Ball, etc. instead of mainstream media.

Biden admin will be a wee bit less corrupt sell outs to large corporations compared to Trump's but this will hardly impact export potential of the military industrial complex to Bangladesh.

If Bangladesh needs any American hardware, they should hire lobby firms to pay off Congressmen who are surprisingly cheap to buy.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> LOL...someone tends to buy into American right wing propaganda.
> Watch/read independent and objective news sources such as The Intercept, Majority Report, Secular Talk, TMBS, Rising with Krystall Ball, etc. instead of mainstream media.
> 
> Biden admin will be a wee bit less corrupt sell outs to large corporations compared to Trump's but this will hardly impact export potential of the military industrial complex to Bangladesh.
> 
> If Bangladesh needs any American hardware, they should hire lobby firms to pay off Congressmen who are surprisingly cheap to buy.



Too bad the AL government is full of noobs and only care about money for themselves , again these people that are in power loves to be a western slave rather than be a leader.


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> BAF can't even defend against wannabe North Korea


North Korea is actually quite strong. Do we have 15k artillery pieces? I think not

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> North Korea is actually quite strong. Do we have 15k artillery pieces? I think not


We have 15k Facebook pages and YT channels claiming we are stronger than them because we say so. Does that count?

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> We have 15k Facebook pages and YT channels claiming we are stronger than them because we say so. Does that count?



Yes cause those channels are so dam annoying it will make our enemies wanna kill themselves

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/252260826333428

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## The Ronin



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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/252260826333428




Ahhh wonderful Bangladesh Air Force Base Sheik Hasina , might as well name the whole country Bangubandu.


Apparently Bangubandu is a scientist,astornaut,doctor,inventor,fighter pilot, and a god in Bangladesh

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## BlackViking

what is this 111mrc unit ?


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ahhh wonderful Bangladesh Air Force Base Sheik Hasina , might as well name the whole country Bangubandu.
> 
> 
> Apparently Bangubandu is a scientist,astornaut,doctor,inventor,fighter pilot, and a god in Bangladesh







BANGABANDHU

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 706462
> what is this 111mrc unit ?




Ah yes Bangladesh is indeed a rich nation , also sorry I can't read Bangla


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> View attachment 706462
> what is this 111mrc unit ?


New unit being raised to accommodate the 16 new fighter jets authorised for procurement.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> New unit being raised to accommodate the 16 new fighter jets authorised for procurement.


🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️


Only buying 6 units for now?

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Only buying 6 units for now?




Don't tell me they will buy 6 and call it a day

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Don't tell me they will buy 6 and call it a day


More likely to buy 8-16 and call it Forces Foul 2030.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> More likely to buy 8-16 and call it Forces Foul 2030.



What are they trying to defend against an Emu ? 

It's almost like BAF wants to remain weak , on the news they say sHit like " Modern gen fighter jets " and then proceed to show an F-7 firing unguided rockets and a Yak-130 doing a barrel roll. Most of the public sadly falls for it but the ones that know about the MRCA knows that a fk F-7 ain't defending against JF-17s


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/255964099296434










__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/255916862634491

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/255964099296434
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/255916862634491



Sounds nice , but really another dam trainer lol ? 

Hopefully we can get TOT and make it in Bangladesh or something


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Sounds nice , but really another dam trainer lol ?
> 
> Hopefully we can get TOT and make it in Bangladesh or something




Actually these light trainers can be hard for modern fighter jets to shoot down in wvr combat due to their slow speed and extreme manoeuvrability. Unless they can get a lock to fire their WVR missiles a lot of the time the modern jets fly straight past them as these trainers are so slow.

BAF may always get lucky against Mach 2 MAF JF-17s with PL-5E11 WVR and SD-10 BVRAAMs!

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Actually these light trainers can be hard for modern fighter jets to shoot down in wvr combat due to their slow speed and extreme manoeuvrability. Unless they can get a lock to fire their WVR missiles a lot of the time the modern jets fly straight past them as these trainers are so slow.
> 
> BAF may always get lucky against Mach 2 MAF JF-17s with PL-5E11 WVR and SD-10 BVRAAMs!


The key is to outnumber enemy missiles with trainers. We should keep buying dozens of them. Forget MRCAs.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Actually these light trainers can be hard for modern fighter jets to shoot down in wvr combat due to their slow speed and extreme manoeuvrability. Unless they can get a lock to fire their WVR missiles a lot of the time the modern jets fly straight past them as these trainers are so slow.
> 
> BAF may always get lucky against Mach 2 MAF JF-17s with PL-5E11 WVR and SD-10 BVRAAMs!


Why would fighters engage WVR , they’ll foxtrot this from miles away 600 miles per hour is easily to shoot these cunts down achievable

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## bdslph

trainer again lol 

we better open a international school for trainer and transport plane and give class to other air force

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## Michael Corleone

bdslph said:


> trainer again lol
> 
> we better open a international school for trainer and transport plane and give class to other air force


Don’t worry. They’re training for ww3 and the conquest of India 😂😂😂

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## The Ronin



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## The Ronin

Destranator said:


> New unit being raised to accommodate the 16 new fighter jets authorised for procurement.



Looks like these MRCA and SAM units are waiting for approval for three years. And here we are always bashing BAF. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Looks like these MRCA and SAM units are waiting for approval for three years. And here we are always bashing BAF. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
> 
> View attachment 708565



No amount of BAF bashing is enough. There is no excuse to justify not procuring worthy jets for 22 years. This MRCA support unit should have been established 20 years ago to prepare for MRCA induction.

"Waiting for approval" is also BAF's fault as they are spinless pushovers who get slapped around by PMO, MoF and MoD bureaucrats unlike BA and BN. Civilian bureaucrats do not understand the needs of the armed forces. They try to "prioritise" non-development expenditure based on "urgency" as argued by respective government agencies. BA and BN hammer their cases home while BAF thumb twiddles.


I am not making any of this up. Speak to any senior BA or BN officer.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> No amount of BAF bashing is enough. There is no excuse to justify not procuring worthy jets for 22 years. This MRCA support unit should have been established 20 years ago to prepare for MRCA induction.
> 
> "Waiting for approval" is also BAF's fault as they are spinless pushovers who get slapped around by PMO, MoF and MoD bureaucrats unlike BA and BN. Civilian bureaucrats do not understand the needs of the armed forces. They try to "prioritise" non-development expenditure based on "urgency" as argued by respective government agencies. BA and BN hammer their cases home while BAF thumb twiddles.
> 
> 
> I am not making any of this up. Speak to any senior BA or BN officer.



BAF is like the UN , utterly useless in the most needed situations. BAF leadership is crucial to keep our skies safe but nah they just pUssy out. 

BN and BA has done something but over here BAF is buying trainers and cargos. By the time we induct these fighters it will be too late

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> BAF is like the UN , utterly useless in the most needed situations. BAF leadership is crucial to keep our skies safe but nah they just pUssy out.
> 
> BN and BA has done something but over here BAF is buying trainers and cargos. By the time we induct these fighters it will be too late




Yep, they have been allocated the money by the government since 2009 but have chosen to spend it on trainers, transports and Mig-21 clones(F-7BGI) from China.

They are so useless they still have not upgraded the 8 Mig-29s to allow them to reach their full potential.

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## JohnWick

UKBengali said:


> They are so useless they still have not upgraded the 8 Mig-29s to allow them to reach their full potential.


So after full upgrade will the Mig-29 become XF-23 Gray Ghost????




The iraqi air force mig-29 pilots refuse to fly in op desert storm against F-16s and F-15s


Destranator said:


> No amount of BAF bashing is enough. There is no excuse to justify not procuring worthy jets for 22 years. This MRCA support unit should have been established 20 years ago to prepare for MRCA induction.
> 
> "Waiting for approval" is also BAF's fault as they are spinless pushovers who get slapped around by PMO, MoF and MoD bureaucrats unlike BA and BN. Civilian bureaucrats do not understand the needs of the armed forces. They try to "prioritise" non-development expenditure based on "urgency" as argued by respective government agencies. BA and BN hammer their cases home while BAF thumb twiddles.
> 
> 
> I am not making any of this up. Speak to any senior BA or BN officer.


Even your army do not have any thing useful


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## siegecrossbow

UKBengali said:


> Actually these light trainers can be hard for modern fighter jets to shoot down in wvr combat due to their slow speed and extreme manoeuvrability. Unless they can get a lock to fire their WVR missiles a lot of the time the modern jets fly straight past them as these trainers are so slow.
> 
> BAF may always get lucky against Mach 2 MAF JF-17s with PL-5E11 WVR and SD-10 BVRAAMs!



I don't know if you are being sarcastic but JF-17s cannot go Mach 2. I think the single seat variant is limited to 1.6 MACH and twin seater even slower speed.


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## SpaceMan18

siegecrossbow said:


> I don't know if you are being sarcastic but JF-17s cannot go Mach 2. I think the single seat variant is limited to 1.6 MACH and twin seater even slower speed.



That must suck then , why only Mach 1.6 ?


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## siegecrossbow

SpaceMan18 said:


> That must suck then , why only Mach 1.6 ?



Engine/DSI inlet, which must be optimized for a particular flight regime. Also max speed is not as important as it used to be for 4th generation fighters.

Also keep in mind that max speed for modern combat aircraft could be deceptive since many of the so called Mach 2 fighters can only achieve it when flying clean. When carrying missiles/external fuel tanks, their stats are far less impressive.

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## JohnWick

SpaceMan18 said:


> That must suck then , why only Mach 1.6 ?








F-35 lightning II speed is also 1.6 mach now go fk yourself with cactus....

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> No amount of BAF bashing is enough. There is no excuse to justify not procuring worthy jets for 22 years. This MRCA support unit should have been established 20 years ago to prepare for MRCA induction.
> 
> "Waiting for approval" is also BAF's fault as they are spinless pushovers who get slapped around by PMO, MoF and MoD bureaucrats unlike BA and BN. Civilian bureaucrats do not understand the needs of the armed forces. They try to "prioritise" non-development expenditure based on "urgency" as argued by respective government agencies. BA and BN hammer their cases home while BAF thumb twiddles.
> 
> 
> I am not making any of this up. Speak to any senior BA or BN officer.


You’re right. Wait for the next AC, he will be a huge disappointment


JohnWick said:


> View attachment 708728
> 
> F-35 lightning II speed is also 1.6 mach now go fk yourself with cactus....


That’s grassmunchers fetish. You do it with your kabuli boyfriends 😂😂😂

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## Awan68

s....


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## siegecrossbow

Oh come on chill out dudes.


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## SpaceMan18

JohnWick said:


> View attachment 708728
> 
> F-35 lightning II speed is also 1.6 mach now go fk yourself with cactus....




Mess with the U.S I dare you little sandboi  we willl level your capitol in no time


Awan68 said:


> should midgets be allowed to have an airforce.



Should people who keep Bin Laden safe get to have an air force ? 


Michael Corleone said:


> You’re right. Wait for the next AC, he will be a huge disappointment
> 
> That’s grassmunchers fetish. You do it with your kabuli boyfriends 😂😂😂



Bro why we can't ban John Wick from this thread , most Pakistanis here don't take him seriously and most of us have him blocked anyways. All he does it troll and $hit about his third world nation

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## Avicenna

Awan68 said:


> should midgets be allowed to have an airforce.



The only midget is what's in your pants playboy.

Now f@ck off.

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## Avicenna

What a beautiful bird!






All you need is 2 squadrons BAF!

And you're all set!

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> What a beautiful bird!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All you need is 2 squadrons BAF!
> 
> And you're all set!


Have you seen what Defseca coons are saying now? China should offer j20 to bd since j10 isn’t good enough, production stopped 😂

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Have you seen what Defseca coons are saying now? China should offer j20 to bd since j10 isn’t good enough, production stopped 😂



What???????


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Have you seen what Defseca coons are saying now? China should offer j20 to bd since j10 isn’t good enough, production stopped 😂


Never forget that in the Defseca universe the world revolves around Bangladesh.

Typical lingo:
"China has failed to meet BAF requirements."

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Never forget that in the Defseca universe the world revolves around Bangladesh.
> 
> Typical lingo:
> "China has failed to meet BAF requirements."



Embarrassing.

Delusion isn't very productive.

Its 2021 guys, no sign of any new fighters.

So much for Forces Goal 2030 10 squadrons blah blah blah.....

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Embarrassing.
> 
> Delusion isn't very productive.
> 
> Its 2021 guys, no sign of any new fighters.
> 
> So much for Forces Goal 2030 10 squadrons blah blah blah.....


You know both the govt and airforce people are nincompoops 
President goes to say we will buy 16
Then the PM 
And what does airforce do with allocated budget?
Establish a MRCA training unit 
I mean wtf what were they doing all this time? 
they make it sound like BAF is preparing for world war, forming so many training units and going at such low pace of expansion.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> You know both the govt and airforce people are nincompoops
> President goes to say we will buy 16
> Then the PM
> And what does airforce do with allocated budget?
> Establish a MRCA training unit
> I mean wtf what were they doing all this time?
> they make it sound like BAF is preparing for world war, forming so many training units and going at such low pace of expansion.


If BAF leadership were serious about national security, they would have bought or leased fighters first and sent pilots to the supplier country for Operational Conversion.

You do not need to build the air force from scratch over 20 years to induct a couple of fighter squadrons.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> If BAF leadership were serious about national security, they would have bought or leased fighters first and sent pilots to the supplier country for Operational Conversion.
> 
> You do not need to build the air force from scratch over 20 years to induct a couple of fighter squadrons.



They are BRAINDEAD , they don't give a single ****. All they care about is UN missions and MUH HUH C-130s and Mi17s.

Their idea of an air force doesn't have modern fighter jets in it.


When you ask a kid what does he think when he thinks of an Air Force 9/10 he would say Fighter Jets not fUcking trainers

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> They are BRAINDEAD , they don't give a single ****. All they care about is UN missions and MUH HUH C-130s and Mi17s.
> 
> Their idea of an air force doesn't have modern fighter jets in it.
> 
> 
> When you ask a kid what does he think when he thinks of an Air Force 9/10 he would say Fighter Jets not fUcking trainers


Don’t worry about UN missions, Bangladesh might get banned soon. Heard general Aziz phone leak?
All bunch of coons. Thank god I didn’t join the army 5 years ago

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Don’t worry about UN missions, Bangladesh might get banned soon. Heard general Aziz phone leak?
> All bunch of coons. Thank god I didn’t join the army 5 years ago


LOL...no way Bangladesh is getting banned. No other military is as dedicated and ready-to-deploy to UN missions as Bangladesh's military.

Bangladesh has a strong military logistics set up (procurement, storage, inspection, shipment of equipment including vehicles, kits, etc.) to cater for UN missions on short notice.

The NCOs constantly lobby officers for their recommendations to deploy in UN missions. They would pack up and catch a flight in a moment's notice.

We have even set up a training centre specifically to prepare troops for UN missions.

The UN simply cannot replace Bangladesh.

With Trump gone, the US is likely to increase their funding of UN back up to previous levels, meaning requirement for more troops.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> LOL...no way Bangladesh is getting banned. No other military is as dedicated and ready-to-deploy to UN missions as Bangladesh's military.
> 
> Bangladesh has a strong military logistics set up (procurement, storage, inspection, shipment of equipment including vehicles, kits, etc.) to cater for UN missions on short notice.
> 
> The NCOs constantly lobby officers for their recommendations to deploy in UN missions. They would pack up and catch a flight in a moment's notice.
> 
> We have even set up a training centre specifically to prepare troops for UN missions.
> 
> The UN simply cannot replace Bangladesh.
> 
> With Trump gone, the US is likely to increase their funding of UN back up to previous levels, meaning requirement for more troops.



True lol , UN is useless in some areas but yeah Bangladesh does an amazing job and it also gives our troops experience in actual missions and sometimes even combat.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> LOL...no way Bangladesh is getting banned. No other military is as dedicated and ready-to-deploy to UN missions as Bangladesh's military.
> 
> Bangladesh has a strong military logistics set up (procurement, storage, inspection, shipment of equipment including vehicles, kits, etc.) to cater for UN missions on short notice.
> 
> The NCOs constantly lobby officers for their recommendations to deploy in UN missions. They would pack up and catch a flight in a moment's notice.
> 
> We have even set up a training centre specifically to prepare troops for UN missions.
> 
> The UN simply cannot replace Bangladesh.
> 
> With Trump gone, the US is likely to increase their funding of UN back up to previous levels, meaning requirement for more troops.


Don’t know man. Hearing Aziz will be kicked to the curb. Another bootlicker is recommended to be general out of nowhere. Govt is also running propaganda against another former army officer who lives in the west, saying he’s a hypocrite and corrupted person. (He may be, I’m not sure) but he recently called out aziz and some other generals after recent phone leaks.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Don’t know man. Hearing Aziz will be kicked to the curb. Another bootlicker is recommended to be general out of nowhere. Govt is arunning propaganda against another former army officer who lives in the west, saying he’s a hypocrite and corrupted person. (He may be, I’m not sure) but he recently called out aziz and some other generals after recent phone leaks.


Yes I know about all that but this is not serious enough for UN to bother.

As for appointing bootlickers, well that is status quo.


----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------



@Avicenna @UKBengali All three of us agree that Gripen is the most logical procurement for BAF until they are ready fof fifth gen.

However just look at this mofo.
Although not a logical procurement, I would be lying if I say I would be upset to see such an air show every 16 Dec

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Have you seen what Defseca coons are saying now? China should offer j20 to bd since j10 isn’t good enough, production stopped 😂


He posted not a long time ago that "Baf to get latest Chinese fighter jet" and he meant J10 and now J10 is not good enough for baf ?! 
That moron is now selling tshirt 1200tk a pop saying to ensure quality he opted for Thailand instead of any local maker. As if Bangladeshi garments product quality is garbage.
King moron of morons island.

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> He posted not a long time ago that "Baf to get latest Chinese fighter jet" and he meant J10 and now J10 is not good enough for baf ?!
> That moron is now selling tshirt 1200tk a pop saying to ensure quality he opted for Thailand instead of any local maker. As if Bangladeshi garments product quality is garbage.
> King moron of morons island.
> View attachment 710416


Ngl he told me I can get it in Dhaka 😂
Pretty sure he’s a clap

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Ngl he told me I can get it in Dhaka 😂
> Pretty sure he’s a clap


My bad its 2000tk/piece now 
**** my life

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> My bad its 2000tk/piece now
> **** my life


Gotta fund the EFT and J20 somehow

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## BlackViking

And then there is another mofo named hridoy mahbub... that idiot says that if pak buys J10 then it means China is dumping their "leftover" J10s on pak and calling pak "shameless dumping ground"...that moron forgot that our navy is the one buying 2nd hand Chinese frigates,so what does that make BN ?
Sorry for derailing this thread but couldn't hold myself

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## alphapak

It looks like Pakistan Air Force will be going for J10C in big numbers. I was expecting
Bangladesh to go for them. Pakistan will replace some Mirages and all F16's with the J10's.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Yes I know about all that but this is not serious enough for UN to bother.
> 
> As for appointing bootlickers, well that is status quo.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> @Avicenna @UKBengali All three of us agree that Gripen is the most logical procurement for BAF until they are ready fof fifth gen.
> 
> However just look at this mofo.
> Although not a logical procurement, I would be lying if I say I would be upset to see such an air show every 16 Dec



32 Eurofighters > 32 Gripen.

Seriously though, who makes these procurement decisions for the BAF?

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## Destranator

alphapak said:


> It looks like Pakistan Air Force will be going for J10C in big numbers. I was expecting
> Bangladesh to go for them. Pakistan will replace some Mirages and all F16's with the J10's.


Does it make sense to do so with JF-17 Block III already in production?


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> 32 Eurofighters > 32 Gripen.
> 
> Seriously though, who makes these procurement decisions for the BAF?


BAF sets the technical criteria and carries out technical evaluation of tender propsals but decision making is influenced by lobbyists.

Procurement decisions need A-ok from MoD, MoF, and PMO.


Ideally, I would like to see 4 squadrons of Gripens (or 3 x Gripen + 1 × EFT) to gradually replace the entire existing fleet.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> BAF sets the technical criteria and carries out technical evaluation of tender propsals but decision making is influenced by lobbyists.
> 
> Procurement decisions need A-ok from MoD, MoF, and PMO.
> 
> 
> Ideally, I would like to see 4 squadrons of Gripens (or 3 x Gripen + 1 × EFT) to gradually replace the entire existing fleet.



Bangladesh doesn't need and can't afford a large fleet of modern fighters.

Realistically, all that's needed are 32-48 examples.

Even that is expensive.

But that equates to 2-3 full strength squadrons. (Western sourced with Western training)

A major boost in capability from where things are now.

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> And then there is another mofo named hridoy mahbub... that idiot says that if pak buys J10 then it means China is dumping their "leftover" J10s on pak and calling pak "shameless dumping ground"...that moron forgot that our navy is the one buying 2nd hand Chinese frigates,so what does that make BN ?
> Sorry for derailing this thread but couldn't hold myself


Yeah that teen faggot hates Pakistan for reasons that doesn’t make sense. It’s just he has to have excuses to hate Pakistan

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## PDF

Destranator said:


> Does it make sense to do so with JF-17 Block III already in production?


Considering India with both qualitative and quantitative edge with it's platforms, it does.

Go through the last ten pages of the following thread to read members rationalizing the potential procurement.








New fighter for PAF Doctrine?


I'd trust @Ark_Angel, @kursed and @PAR 5. If 2 out of 3 of them say 'yes' to something, it's probably true. If all 3 do it, then it's certainly true. I'm leaning on 'probably' in that it's true, but not a certainty until they land in Pakistan (as the PAF had nixed such deals in the past). On a...



defence.pk





Unlike BAF, Pakistan's relationship with U.S. is very very complicated to say the least. It seems PAF blinked first while competing with BAF at who has the most patience to procure foreign aircrafts.

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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> It looks like Pakistan Air Force will be going for J10C in big numbers. I was expecting
> Bangladesh to go for them. Pakistan will replace some Mirages and all F16's with the J10's.


You sure? Where’s the post to this?


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## Avicenna

PDF said:


> Considering India with both qualitative and quantitative edge with it's platforms, it does.
> 
> Go through the last ten pages of the following thread to read members rationalizing the potential procurement.
> 
> Unlike BAF, Pakistan's relationship with U.S. is very very complicated to say the least. It seems PAF blinked first while competing with BAF at who has the most patience to procure foreign aircrafts.



Off topic, but new build airframes with from a reliable source can't be a bad thing.

It's only logical that J-10 would find itself in PAF. (of course with the usual Pakistani spiced improvements added)


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## alphapak

Destranator said:


> Does it make sense to do so with JF-17 Block III already in production?



PAF operates both light weight (JF17) and medium weight (F16) aircrafts, the problem
is that the Americans will not give the latest block of F16's to PAF. 

PAF also needs J10's with aesa + PL15 along side the JF17's. PAF needs to counter the 36
Rafales that India has bought, India will most likely order another 36 Rafales.

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## ziaulislam

Destranator said:


> Does it make sense to do so with JF-17 Block III already in production?


J10 is 50% larger then jf17
Its been inducted because PAF has lost all hopes on getting new or used f16s
BAF should get a single jet with MRO facility to ensure max reliability 

Gripen is perfect for that

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> You sure? Where’s the post to this?












New fighter for PAF Doctrine?


They are expensive indeed. I was speaking in terms of capability though. They also have a better future outlook than the Rafale with more countries flying them and Germany's recent order of 38 (planned buy of 90+) in addition to what they already have. Either way, a squadron or two worth of...



defence.pk





At the moment it is not confirmed but it looks like China and Pak have done a deal.

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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> New fighter for PAF Doctrine?
> 
> 
> They are expensive indeed. I was speaking in terms of capability though. They also have a better future outlook than the Rafale with more countries flying them and Germany's recent order of 38 (planned buy of 90+) in addition to what they already have. Either way, a squadron or two worth of...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment it is not confirmed but it looks like China and Pak have a deal.


Good to see this. Maybe the ballless airchief’s in bd will make up their mind and follow Pakistan’s path

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Good to see this. Maybe the ballless airchief’s in bd will make up their mind and follow Pakistan’s path



I hope BAF goes for Gripen and J10's, that way they have both light and mediuum weight
fighters.

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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> I hope BAF goes for Gripen and J10's, that way they have both light and mediuum weight
> fighters.


Fingers crossed. Some of us speculated correctly what they were after but backed out for some reason. We just lost hope and now hoping they buy at least 16 of anything other than trainers

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## PDF

Avicenna said:


> Off topic, but new build airframes with from a reliable source can't be a bad thing.
> 
> It's only logical that J-10 would find itself in PAF. (of course with the usual Pakistani spiced improvements added)


We would have chosen more F-16s and upgrading the ones in inventory to V standard over inducting a new platform for which we need new infrastructure, training, maintenance, etc which would increase cost for absorbing. We will also need some years to fully operationalize them into our net-centric environment.
But, we can't wait any further for nod by Uncle Sam cause the writing's on the wall. Pakistan and India are in due of conflict.


Michael Corleone said:


> Fingers crossed. Some of us speculated correctly what they were after but backed out for some reason. We just lost hope and now hoping they buy at least 16 of anything other than trainers


Maybe that was the plan from the start. Now that people are sick of BAF's procurement progress, they won't get much protest if they induct Tejas.
(Mind blown) [JK]

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Fingers crossed. Some of us speculated correctly what they were after but backed out for some reason. We just lost hope and now hoping they buy at least 16 of anything other than trainers



They should go for both maybe start 16 of each, that way they are not relying on 1 country.


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## Michael Corleone

PDF said:


> We would have chosen more F-16s and upgrading the ones in inventory to V standard over inducting a new platform for which we need new infrastructure, training, maintenance, etc which would increase cost for absorbing. We will also need some years to fully operationalize them into our net-centric environment.
> But, we can't wait any further for nod by Uncle Sam cause the writing's on the wall. Pakistan and India are in due of conflict.


Wouldn’t it be easier for pk to acquire j10? Since they have jf17 ammunition’s etc? As for f16s... can’t their infrastructure be converted to j10s?


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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> Wouldn’t it be easier for pk to acquire j10? Since they have jf17 ammunition’s etc? As for f16s... can’t their infrastructure be converted to j10s?


Ammunition and weapons are just a part of it. And even then, we will have to integrate other weapon systems such as Aselpod etc. And the pilots need to be get familiar with J 10 and develop tactics all of which takes time. Engine is different, the ground staff has to be trained. 

And for the latter part of the question, the answer is unfortunately no because the F-16s will keep on flying for a good score or even more in PAF.

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## Avicenna

Just a really nice display!

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> Just a really nice display!




A Doomer watching EFT displays , pretty cool

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## Gomig-21

Love the colors of this thing.

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## SpaceMan18

Gomig-21 said:


> Love the colors of this thing.



Didn't Myanmar just copy this paint scheme for their own Migs lol ?

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## Bilal9

Well today I will intro a non-sexy bird, but still a practical one - the Cessna 408 Sky Courier.

Textron's Cessna division developed it from the Cessna 208 caravan which we already use with BAF. However this new twin turbo-prop is the ideal next generation twin-otter, exclusively designed with 3 LD3 unit cargo capability (see below) which will revolutionize air cargo shipments, enabling quick turnaround and maximum utilization for the aircraft. It also uses the same (improved) PT6 Turbo-props as the Twin-Otter. I am guessing float equipped operation for local rivers/lakes is also possible, when float-makers (possibly Grumman and others) come up with float packages.






Passenger seating units can also be used - 19 seater configuration





I have high hopes that these will be far more practical than the smaller prop cargo utility platforms now in use at BAF.

First flight was May last year. FAA certification is not far away.

Max. Capacity is 5000 lbs but if you reduce cargo/fuel payload to 2000 lbs, these things have long enough range from Dhaka to New Delhi, Kunming, Chengdu, Hanoi and Bangkok. Quite a feat, I must admit.

Here's a short video.

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## The Ronin

Bilal9 said:


> Textron's Cessna division developed it from the Cessna 208 caravan which we already use with BAF.



Not BAF. Only one Cessna 208 Caravan is operational in Army Aviation.


Bilal9 said:


> I have high hopes that these will be far more practical than the smaller prop cargo utility platforms now in use at BAF.



BAF already operates three types of transport aircraft. The three L-410 UVP-E20 it operates for training C-130 pilots mainly at reduced expense. So for the next two light aircraft, L 410 NG would be the most logical choice which is better than Cessna 408 and already in production. So there's no need for another type of light aircraft similar to L-410. Rather we can buy some heavy cargo like C-17/IL-76/A-400M.

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## Indos

Bilal9 said:


> Well today I will intro a non-sexy bird, but still a practical one - the Cessna 408 Sky Courier.
> 
> Textron's Cessna division developed it from the Cessna 208 caravan which we already use with BAF. However this new twin turbo-prop is the ideal next generation twin-otter, exclusively designed with 3 LD3 unit cargo capability (see below) which will revolutionize air cargo shipments, enabling quick turnaround and maximum utilization for the aircraft. It also uses the same (improved) PT6 Turbo-props as the Twin-Otter. I am guessing float equipped operation for local rivers/lakes is also possible, when float-makers (possibly Grumman and others) come up with float packages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passenger seating units can also be used - 19 seater configuration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have high hopes that these will be far more practical than the smaller prop cargo utility platforms now in use at BAF.
> 
> First flight was May last year. FAA certification is not far away.
> 
> Max. Capacity is 5000 lbs but if you reduce cargo/fuel payload to 2000 lbs, these things have long enough range from Dhaka to New Delhi, Kunming, Chengdu, Hanoi and Bangkok. Quite a feat, I must admit.
> 
> Here's a short video.



Similar class with N 219 that has completed the certification process December last year. I think they copy our plane design.






















__





PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)







www.indonesian-aerospace.com





Passenger type


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325727561654022144
The amphibious version is currently being developed, I think it will be very useful for Bangladesh that have huge rivers going through your land.

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## Indos

@Bilal9 We can extend the range by hardening the wings to make them able to have two additional fuel tanks like what we have made to NC212i for Vietnam.

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## Bilal9

Indos said:


> Similar class with N 219 that has completed the certification process December last year. I think they copy our plane design.
> 
> View attachment 712329
> 
> View attachment 712333
> 
> View attachment 712331
> 
> View attachment 712334
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.indonesian-aerospace.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passenger type
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325727561654022144
> The amphibious version is currently being developed, I think it will be very useful for Bangladesh that have huge rivers going through your land.



Masha'Allah very, very nice!

The Cessna Sky Courier did copy the N219 to some extent, but yours is actually a better design with the main undercarriage spread out and having more stability and robustness just like the Twin Otter. 

Dr. Habibie had very ambitious plans for Nurtanio (for the CN235 and even for a jet powered CN250 at one time) but this smaller model is very practical for countries like Bangladesh to connect smaller remote communities. 

I am sure if he was alive today, he would be proud about your nation's efforts in aerospace, as well as other arenas.

Yes floats are very practical in places like Mitha Moin in the North of Bangladesh, where roads are few and far between during rainy season and communities are cut off, being connected only by watercraft.

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## Indos

Bilal9 said:


> Dr. Habibie had very ambitious plans for Nurtanio (for the CN235 and even for a jet powered CN250 at one time) but this smaller model is very practical for countries like Bangladesh to connect smaller remote communities.



Actually it was N 2130 and it was failed because we entered Asian Financial Crisis since 1997 and IMF forbid us to finance N 250 and N 2130 program despite both were still undergoing development phase during that time. You know that is the fate if we rely on some one else loan (with interest) badly. Rupiah fell from Rp 2000 per USD into Rp 18.000 per USD, you can see the magnitude of the crisis from that crazy depreciation.

If we develop the plane independently, we never use Casa (C) name. Casa is only used for CN 235 because we develop the plane together and for NC 212i because Indonesia get license to manufacture it and develop the plane a bit under Casa (Airbus) consent, this is why there is i (Indonesia) in NC 212i plane name.






IPTN N-2130 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





N 2130 under wind tunnel test

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> Actually it was N 2130 and it was failed because we entered Asian Financial Crisis since 1997 and IMF forbid us to finance N 250 and N 2130 program despite both were still undergoing development phase during that time. You know that is the fate if we rely on some one else loan (with interest) badly. Rupiah fell from Rp 2000 per USD into Rp 18.000 per USD, you can see the magnitude of the crisis from that crazy depreciation.
> 
> If we develop the plane independently, we never use Casa (C) name. Casa is only used for CN 235 because we develop the plane together and for NC 212i because Indonesia get license to manufacture it and develop the plane a bit under Casa (Airbus) consent, this is why there is i (Indonesia) in NC 212i plane name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IPTN N-2130 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N 2130 under wind tunnel test
> 
> View attachment 712828



I have feeling Bangladesh will probably go the Indonesian route of making aircrafts idk exactly

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## siegecrossbow

At the risk of getting beaten up in this thread:

how angry on a scale of one to ten would you guys be if the new aircraft turned out to be FTC-2000G? Personally I really, really hope that this isn’t the case.

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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> I have feeling Bangladesh will probably go the Indonesian route of making aircrafts idk exactly



I think if you have already had an aviation university, you can build this plane below if your government support it. I think there will be many needs coming from Airforce and state and private aviation courses for smal propeller plane that can be used for flying course. Next will be making a business connection with established aerospace industry around the world and supply cheaper parts for them. At least 30 Bangladeshi diaspora who have experience building plane in world class aerospace industry should be brought back.

This is the first designed plane by Indonesian and it is produced in Indonesian Airforce depot facility where later it becomes Indonesian Aerospace. The designer is Nurtanio (Aviation engineer that study in Philippine) and he is the starter of Indonesian Aerospace, not Habibie. Habibie make it become an industry, the knowledge and experience has been gathered before Habibie comes and lead the company.







The *LIPNUR Sikumbang* (manufacturer designation *X-01*) was a low-wing monoplane of mixed construction built in Indonesia in 1954 as a COIN and anti-guerrilla-warfare aircraft. Of conventional configuration, it had fixed tricycle undercarriage and seated the pilot under a bubble canopy. A single example was built under the designation *NU-200* in 1954, and another as the *NU-225* in 1957. The latter machine was grounded in 1967. 









LIPNUR Sikumbang - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325988246606606336

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## SpaceMan18

siegecrossbow said:


> At the risk of getting beaten up in this thread:
> 
> how angry on a scale of one to ten would you guys be if the new aircraft turned out to be FTC-2000G? Personally I really, really hope that this isn’t the case.



Lmao there is 0 chances it will be a FTC-2000G , I think the Mig-35 has more chances


Indos said:


> I think if you have already had an aviation university, you can build this plane below if your government support it. I think there will be many needs coming from Airforce and state and private aviation courses for smal propeller plane that can be used for flying course. Next will be making a business connection with established aerospace industry around the world and supply cheaper parts for them. At least 30 Bangladeshi diaspora who have experience building plane in world class aerospace industry should be brought back.
> 
> This is the first designed plane by Indonesian and it is produced in Indonesian Airforce depot facility where later it becomes Indonesian Aerospace. The designer is Nurtanio (Aviation engineer that study in Philippine) and he is the starter of Indonesian Aerospace, not Habibie. Habibie make it become an industry, the knowledge and experience has been gathered before Habibie comes and lead the company.
> 
> 
> View attachment 713089
> 
> 
> The *LIPNUR Sikumbang* (manufacturer designation *X-01*) was a low-wing monoplane of mixed construction built in Indonesia in 1954 as a COIN and anti-guerrilla-warfare aircraft. Of conventional configuration, it had fixed tricycle undercarriage and seated the pilot under a bubble canopy. A single example was built under the designation *NU-200* in 1954, and another as the *NU-225* in 1957. The latter machine was grounded in 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LIPNUR Sikumbang - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325988246606606336



I agree , but honestly Bangladesh has more corruption than Indonesia , Bangladesh government lacks leadership to build even a simple plane like this.

Also bringing back Bangladeshis from America is like finding a needle in a haystack , Bangladeshis rather work at Boeing or NASA than corrupt filled Bangladesh.

The Bangladeshi that do come end up getting disappointed at the state of Bangladesh


Bangladesh has no automobile industry nor any space program , there is no way these talented Bangladeshis will thrive in Bangladesh.

It's doable but will require a lot of effort to even make a basic trainer

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## BlackViking

siegecrossbow said:


> how angry on a scale of one to ten would you guys be if the new aircraft turned out to be FTC-2000G?


Not a single scale in the world would be able to measure that anger level.🤔🤔

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## Avicenna

siegecrossbow said:


> At the risk of getting beaten up in this thread:
> 
> how angry on a scale of one to ten would you guys be if the new aircraft turned out to be FTC-2000G? Personally I really, really hope that this isn’t the case.



LOL.

Pretty disappointed.

I can't imagine this to be the case however.

With the recent articles about the Army Chief and PM (not new info to many)etc.....morale is probably pretty low around here.

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## PakistaniAtBahrain

SpaceMan18 said:


> Also bringing back Bangladeshis from America is like finding a needle in a haystack , Bangladeshis rather work at Boeing or NASA than corrupt filled Bangladesh.
> 
> The Bangladeshi that do come end up getting disappointed at the state of Bangladesh



wont the solution then be, as a shortcut, for Bangladesh to enter a partnership with China/Turkey/Pakistan to build aircraft. since those 3 countries are doing some stuff in this field, it would bypass Bangladeshi corruption and give Bangladeshi minds a clean environment to work in.

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## Destranator

siegecrossbow said:


> At the risk of getting beaten up in this thread:
> 
> how angry on a scale of one to ten would you guys be if the new aircraft turned out to be FTC-2000G? Personally I really, really hope that this isn’t the case.


FTC-2000G is a fighter trainer albeit supersonic. From a tactical perspective, it would add little value as BAF pilots already get trained on IJTs, AJTs and OCUs.
It lacks BVR capabilities.
However, BAF being utter brain dead morons loves trainers so don't lose hope.

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## Michael Corleone

siegecrossbow said:


> At the risk of getting beaten up in this thread:
> 
> how angry on a scale of one to ten would you guys be if the new aircraft turned out to be FTC-2000G? Personally I really, really hope that this isn’t the case.


I would avoid paying taxes at all cost to see BAF shut down for good then.

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## ghost250

Bangladesh Air Force An-32 crews offering afternoon namaz at Yalehanka Air Force Station. For your information, the Chief of Air Staff has reached Bangalore to take part in the Aero India 2021. 
@ops room

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> Bangladesh Air Force An-32 crews offering afternoon namaz at Yalehanka Air Force Station. For your information, the Chief of Air Staff has reached Bangalore to take part in the Aero India 2021.
> @ops room
> 
> View attachment 713160


they’re praying “Hey allah please get us something other than trainers, ameen!”
Or in reality
“Hey Allah, please get us more UN ferry fleet so we can earn more than we earn in our country, ameen!”

I reckon it’s the second since only that wish came true

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## PakistaniAtBahrain

ghost250 said:


> Bangladesh Air Force An-32 crews offering afternoon namaz at Yalehanka Air Force Station. For your information, the Chief of Air Staff has reached Bangalore to take part in the Aero India 2021.
> @ops room
> 
> View attachment 713160



that is a great sight

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## SpaceMan18

PakistaniAtBahrain said:


> wont the solution then be, as a shortcut, for Bangladesh to enter a partnership with China/Turkey/Pakistan to build aircraft. since those 3 countries are doing some stuff in this field, it would bypass Bangladeshi corruption and give Bangladeshi minds a clean environment to work in.



Hmm it's almost like you need brilliant or talented minds to make certain complex things like aircrafts , Bangladeshi talent ends up going to other nations sadly. 

Turkey is helping us along with China and other Western nations on our aircraft development , our Aerospace University opened up and we hope it puts out talented individuals to make our first aircarft aka trainer. 

We hope we can also make our own satellites too , but again Bangladesh is slow with anything revolving around tech.


Avicenna said:


> LOL.
> 
> Pretty disappointed.
> 
> I can't imagine this to be the case however.
> 
> With the recent articles about the Army Chief and PM (not new info to many)etc.....morale is probably pretty low around here.



My morale has been low ever since my mom told me " Sorry son Bangladesh's airforce sucks" 

Every single Bangladeshi that knows anything about BAF is now bringing up MRCA , and these youtubers that have made multiple videos on MRCA and that MUH HUH SU30 is coming is now getting shat on

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## Landmine

Any update regarding the last 2*C-130J? It's been a long time since the last delivery was made.


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> My morale has been low ever since my mom told me " Sorry son Bangladesh's airforce sucks"


😆😆😆😆

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## Lord Of Gondor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357278847335497729

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## Michael Corleone

Lord Of Gondor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357278847335497729


Tejas coming boys 😄

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## siegecrossbow

Michael Corleone said:


> Tejas coming boys 😄



I think you are better off with FTC-2000...

Joking aside, any news on when the fighter tender will take place?

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## Avicenna

siegecrossbow said:


> I think you are better off with FTC-2000...
> 
> Joking aside, any news on when the fighter tender will take place?



Why?


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

IMO Bangladesh should pursue the Gripen E/F. I don't think they'll have a problem securing a financing facility from Sweden (e.g., great economic outlook). Order 36 aircraft, and then finance them (including maintenance costs) for 12 years, and after that, pivot to the KAI KFX. Don't worry about fighter numbers; make the early move to UCAVs via air-teaming.

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## siegecrossbow

Avicenna said:


> Why?



I was replying to Michael’s joking reference that Tejas is coming to Bangladesh. It wasn’t a serious post.

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## Michael Corleone

siegecrossbow said:


> Joking aside, any news on when the fighter tender will take place?


Nope


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## Destranator

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO Bangladesh should pursue the Gripen E/F. I don't think they'll have a problem securing a financing facility from Sweden (e.g., great economic outlook). Order 36 aircraft, and then finance them (including maintenance costs) for 12 years, and after that, pivot to the KAI KFX. Don't worry about fighter numbers; make the early move to UCAVs via air-teaming.


@The Ronin:
Is @Bilal Khan (Quwa) too a "Gripen fanboy" now? 

@Avicenna @UKBengali

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Destranator said:


> @The Ronin:
> Is @Bilal Khan (Quwa) too a "Gripen fanboy" now?
> 
> @Avicenna @UKBengali


I always was  

IMO no situation is too dire. BAF is at the crux of a huge opportunity to totally revolutionize itself for the future. I didn't like the idea of acquiring dozens of J-10CEs, or trying to run multiple platforms based on the size or origin. This isn't optimal resource use.

Your military should start reflecting your economic thinking: efficient and forward-looking.

So, if it had been me, I would start with 36 JAS-39E/Fs with GlobalEye AEW&C, MBDA Meteor AAMs, and SCALP ALCMs. Get a financing facility from Sweden, and pay it off over 12 years. This cost will comprise of both the acquisition and the maintenance. You can even get Saab, GE, and MBDA to engage in offset agreements with your industry; basically, get the defence money to feedback into your manufacturing.

Then from the early 2030s, pivot to 18 KAI KFX (e.g., $4 b). 

You might think it's weird to only have 54 manned aircraft, but the future is in UCAVs. So, push more of your investment in air-teaming/loyal wingman drones, attack drones, etc. You should look at designing your own air-teaming UCAVs (the starting point is target drone tech), and manufacturing them in large numbers. If you can evolve to a stealthy UCAV, then all the power to you.

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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I always was
> 
> IMO no situation is too dire. BAF is at the crux of a huge opportunity to totally revolutionize itself for the future. I didn't like the idea of acquiring dozens of J-10CEs, or trying to run multiple platforms based on the size or origin. This isn't optimal resource use.
> 
> Your military should start reflecting your economic thinking: efficient and forward-looking.
> 
> So, if it had been me, I would start with 36 JAS-39E/Fs with GlobalEye AEW&C, MBDA Meteor AAMs, and SCALP ALCMs. Get a financing facility from Sweden, and pay it off over 12 years. This cost will comprise of both the acquisition and the maintenance. You can even get Saab, GE, and MBDA to engage in offset agreements with your industry; basically, get the defence money to feedback into your manufacturing.
> 
> Then from the early 2030s, pivot to 18 KAI KFX (e.g., $4 b).
> 
> You might think it's weird to only have 54 manned aircraft, but the future is in UCAVs. So, push more of your investment in air-teaming/loyal wingman drones, attack drones, etc. You should look at designing your own air-teaming UCAVs (the starting point is target drone tech), and manufacturing them in large numbers. If you can evolve to a stealthy UCAV, then all the power to you.



To be honest, I wish you were in charge of BAF procurement instead of the likely muppets they have there now.

To much truth in one post.

Not a fanboy of Gripen but it makes absolute sense in the political, financial and tactical sense. 

If your adversaries fly Flankers, Gripen is for you.

If you have a maritime mission, Gripen is for you.

If economics matters to you, Gripen is for you. (Cheap operating costs.)

Short field performance will matter as well.

And it will set you up for the 5th generation and UCAVs.

Too much sense.

But it seems we have idiots/crooks in high positions of power.

I will just leave this link here.









Gripen E-series | Saab


Gripen E-series is a true swing-role fighter with outstanding capabilities. The fighter is developed to counter and defeat the most advanced threats in a modern battlespace and to continuously evolve in order to keep up with new challenges.




www.saab.com





What the hell else does BAF want?

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> To be honest, I wish you were in charge of BAF procurement instead of the likely muppets they have there now.
> 
> To much truth in one post.
> 
> Not a fanboy of Gripen but it makes absolute sense in the political, financial and tactical sense.
> 
> If your adversaries fly Flankers, Gripen is for you.
> 
> If you have a maritime mission, Gripen is for you.
> 
> If economics matters to you, Gripen is for you. (Cheap operating costs.)
> 
> Short field performance will matter as well.
> 
> And it will set you up for the 5th generation and UCAVs.
> 
> Too much sense.
> 
> But it seems we have idiots/crooks in high positions of power.
> 
> I will just leave this link here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gripen E-series | Saab
> 
> 
> Gripen E-series is a true swing-role fighter with outstanding capabilities. The fighter is developed to counter and defeat the most advanced threats in a modern battlespace and to continuously evolve in order to keep up with new challenges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saab.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell else does BAF want?




BAF is utterly useless , it's been years now and they keep using the same old $hitty excuses and now the Covid-19 excuse. 

Covid-19 is not an excuse to not make a deal with SAAB to buy some dam Gripens 


It's 2021 and we still don't see any news on about the MRCA , they have been silent like nothing ever happened. 

If we do not make a deal right now , by the time we induct new fighter jets we could of inducted 5th gen fighters instead. 

We despratley need to get some dam fighters cause Myanmar is still going to harass us with their SU30s and or Jf-17s. 

Myanmar aka a country who's sanctioned and has a lower GDP than us has a better air force 

Sad

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> What the hell else does BAF want?


BAF wants a lot of things (EFT, Su30, mig 35,f16, f18, gripen)😂

question is what Hasina bibi wants


SpaceMan18 said:


> Myanmar aka a country who's sanctioned and has a lower GDP than us has a better air force
> 
> Sad


If you use this argument there will be some who argue, we’ve got a better navy than Canada. 
yeah such muppets exist

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> BAF wants a lot of things (EFT, Su30, mig 35,f16, f18, gripen)😂
> 
> question is what Hasina bibi wants
> 
> If you use this argument there will be some who argue, we’ve got a better navy than Canada.
> yeah such muppets exist



You and I both know Bengalis/Bangladeshis can be very analytical, intelligent, and wise.

Perhaps PM Hasina should step aside and delegate this task to some capable individuals rather than herself or any of her loyal but less capable people.

As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) has stated, this is a pivotal time for BAF to transition away from its traditional sources and move into the Western fold. i.e. major leap in capability.

A wrong decision here will set back the BAF tremendously.

Again, I reiterate, I would rather have 32-36 Gripen E than 16 Eurofighters or any other platform.

If BD is worried about the US/China balance, the Gripen allows BAF to source an affordable Western platform without completely being reliant on the US. (I know I know US sourced engine)

The case of Sweden and Bangladesh have some interesting parallels.

It's the most logical choice, but of course we at home don't have all the facts in hand.

It's beyond pathetic at this point.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> You and I both know Bengalis/Bangladeshis can be very analytical, intelligent, and wise.
> 
> Perhaps PM Hasina should step aside and delegate this task to some capable individuals rather than herself or any of her loyal but less capable people.
> 
> As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) has stated, this is a pivotal time for BAF to transition away from its traditional sources and move into the Western fold. i.e. major leap in capability.
> 
> A wrong decision here will set back the BAF tremendously.
> 
> Again, I reiterate, I would rather have 32-36 Gripen E than 16 Eurofighters or any other platform.
> 
> If BD is worried about the US/China balance, the Gripen allows BAF to source an affordable Western platform without completely being reliant on the US. (I know I know US sourced engine)
> 
> The case of Sweden and Bangladesh have some interesting parallels.
> 
> It's the most logical choice, but of course we at home don't have all the facts in hand.
> 
> It's beyond pathetic at this point.


I wouldn’t expect a narc to relinquish power, they thrive on it.









BAF has become a meme😂😂😂😂

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## Areesh

Michael Corleone said:


> question is what Hasina bibi wants



Hasina wants Tejas


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## bdslph

Michael Corleone said:


> I wouldn’t expect a narc to relinquish power, they thrive on it.
> View attachment 713803
> 
> View attachment 713804
> 
> BAF has become a meme😂😂😂😂



FLY TEJAS ... START THE ENGINE THERE IT GOES BOLLYWOOD SONG

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## BlackViking

People in procurement of baf are old and useless. They choose different things and get confused and then buy nothing.Need some fresh young ambitious officers in there

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> You and I both know Bengalis/Bangladeshis can be very analytical, intelligent, and wise.
> 
> Perhaps PM Hasina should step aside and delegate this task to some capable individuals rather than herself or any of her loyal but less capable people.
> 
> As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) has stated, this is a pivotal time for BAF to transition away from its traditional sources and move into the Western fold. i.e. major leap in capability.
> 
> A wrong decision here will set back the BAF tremendously.
> 
> Again, I reiterate, I would rather have 32-36 Gripen E than 16 Eurofighters or any other platform.
> 
> If BD is worried about the US/China balance, the Gripen allows BAF to source an affordable Western platform without completely being reliant on the US. (I know I know US sourced engine)
> 
> The case of Sweden and Bangladesh have some interesting parallels.
> 
> It's the most logical choice, but of course we at home don't have all the facts in hand.
> 
> It's beyond pathetic at this point.



I agree , they don't care until it's too late


BlackViking said:


> People in procurement of baf are old and useless. They choose different things and get confused and then buy nothing.Need some fresh young ambitious officers in there



I wish ,but as always old people are the ones sending the young ones to die


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## Indos

The chosen must be really careful. After 2030 Bangladesh probably only has J 31, SU 57, and KFX/IFX (if program is inshaAllah successful) as option as India will induct AMCA. USA will not let Muslim countries have F35. Indonesia proposal to get F35 has been rejected by Trump administration. TFX has engine issue that hasnt been fixed now with their indigenous engine and hasnt yet got USA approval to get F 110 engine if their indigenous engine is not ready yet in time.

There also is fear that China will not let Bangladesh to have J 31 or J 20 after 2030 due to its connection with Myanmar. Bangladesh economy around 2030's will be 1 trillion USD so Bangladesh have financial capability to induct latest generation fighter.

The plane that want to be bought should be inline with future induction. If Bangladesh keep buying Russian fighter it means it has long planning to get SU 57.


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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> I wish ,but as always old people are the ones sending the young ones to die


Baf pilots wants rafale over eft...let's see what they decide

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## Lord Of Gondor

Good high level interaction between IAF and BAF over the years






2019 with the Mark-III Dhruv in Assam




To the senior most officer in BAF in AI 2021 on the Tejas trainer

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## Destranator

Areesh said:


> Hasina wants Tejas


Say what you want but BAF have now had a look inside Tejas and even observed how it flies.
The air chief is a MiG-29 pilot so he must have noticed a few things about the performance of Tejas vs MiG-29s.

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Baf pilots wants rafale over eft...let's see what they decide



Oh god no , Gripen or EFT all the way I don't want the same aircraft India flies


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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> The chosen must be really careful. After 2030 Bangladesh probably only has J 31, SU 57, and KFX/IFX (if program is inshaAllah successful) as option as India will induct AMCA. USA will not let Muslim countries have F35. Indonesia proposal to get F35 has been rejected by Trump administration. TFX has engine issue that hasnt been fixed now with their indigenous engine and hasnt yet got USA approval to get F 110 engine if their indigenous engine is not ready yet in time.
> 
> There also is fear that China will not let Bangladesh to have J 31 or J 20 after 2030 due to its connection with Myanmar. Bangladesh economy around 2030's will be 1 trillion USD so Bangladesh have financial capability to induct latest generation fighter.
> 
> The plane that want to be bought should be inline with future induction. If Bangladesh keep buying Russian fighter it means it has long planning to get SU 57.
> 
> View attachment 713862




Myanmar's economy being 1 trillion  sorry fam sounds like a joke , also none of us know the future. Did you think Covid-19 would be a thing in 2020 , yeah none of us did.


Myanmar is an unstable nation who is sanctioned and run by the military , their recent coup really showed their picture. 


If Myanmar has a 1 trillion dollar economy by then then Bangladesh will have 5+ trilllion dollar economy , Bangladesh's 2030 air force goals are uncertain 


Also Qatar is getting F-35s to it depends , Bangladesh's only hope is Turkey not Russia and there's no way China will not sell their J-31 to us since they sell to both sides. 

Again none of us knows the future , but I hope for the best 


Also Bangladesh has 0 arms industry , we can't even make our own indigenous assault rifles or even shot guns or handguns. 

Singapore aka a nation wayyyyy smaller than us has a better military industrial complex than us , Bangladesh has no excuse but I feel like India doesn't want Bangladesh to make it's own weapons cause then we can defend ourselves much better.

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> Say what you want but BAF have now had a look inside Tejas and even observed how it flies.
> The air chief is a MiG-29 pilot so he must have noticed a few things about the performance of Tejas vs MiG-29s.



Yeah our heffer of a BAF chief follows long history of retards right into a sh*thole. This is likely to be more than an ill advised photo op.

When it comes to BAF lower every expectation you have and prepare for catastrophe because there is absolutely no bar these idiots will not give their all to achieve.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> Yeah our heffer of a BAF chief follows long history of retards right into a sh*thole. This is likely to be more than an ill advised photo op.
> 
> When it comes to BAF lower every expectation you have and prepare for catastrophe because there is absolutely no bar these idiots will not give their all to achieve.



I am sure someone higher up asked him to 'take a look'. For Allah's sake, Indians have been after us to buy these garbage for ages.

It's not like anyone will actually 'volunteer' to go take a look and 'get cozy' with the likes of Dhruv's and Tejas crap.

Here are the latest in a long line of (scores of) Dhruv crashes (since 2006) - the latest one 11 days ago.

Read this,









Why Air Force’s Dhruv Helicopters Crash Often?


News from the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force




indianmilnews.blogspot.com















And here's the clincher, after Indians bribed the Ecuadorians to buy these, and four crashed, they had enough, they finally cancelled the contract. 'Garbage' is the right moniker...






Indians are just looking for suckers like us to finance their "tek-na-laji" plans, which will come to naught, because it is India after all....

And look at this - the main parts of the helicopter are all developed from an older platform developed by MBB Germany, a large portion of the parts (as is common with HAL) is manufactured overseas and shipped to India. If they can f*ck up a German platform, think about how incompetent as a company one has to get.

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> Yeah our heffer of a BAF chief follows long history of retards right into a sh*thole. This is likely to be more than an ill advised photo op.
> 
> When it comes to BAF lower every expectation you have and prepare for catastrophe because there is absolutely no bar these idiots will not give their all to achieve.




My opinions on BAF as an organisation needs not restatement to members here and it cannot hit any lower.

However, my assessment of the subject activity is independent of that. We should not be turning down an opportunity to have a close look at an aircraft that might dominate IAF and IN in the coming days.

When military personnel return from official trips, they undergo mandatory debriefing where lessons learnt are formally documented. BAF may currently be run by utter morons, but the lesson learnt from this trip will remain accessible to all future leaders including those who might revamp BAF.

I don't care about optics or photo ops as I don't care about public opinion. All that matters to me is material outcomes.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Say what you want but BAF have now had a look inside Tejas and even observed how it flies.
> The air chief is a MiG-29 pilot so he must have noticed a few things about the performance of Tejas vs MiG-29s.



Performance is as piss poor as it can get.

They designed it to be too small, the wings are also too small. It was supposed to be a modern 'Gnat'.

Gnats can't carry any payload worth crap. Ditto for this one.


Lord Of Gondor said:


> Good high level interaction between IAF and BAF over the years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2019 with the Mark-III Dhruv in Assam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the senior most officer in BAF in AI 2021 on the Tejas trainer



Well - there ya go, pilgrim !!

Purchase contract complete.

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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> Myanmar's economy being 1 trillion  sorry fam sounds like a joke , also none of us know the future. Did you think Covid-19 would be a thing in 2020 , yeah none of us did.
> 
> 
> Myanmar is an unstable nation who is sanctioned and run by the military , their recent coup really showed their picture.
> 
> 
> If Myanmar has a 1 trillion dollar economy by then then Bangladesh will have 5+ trilllion dollar economy , Bangladesh's 2030 air force goals are uncertain
> 
> 
> Also Qatar is getting F-35s to it depends , Bangladesh's only hope is Turkey not Russia and there's no way China will not sell their J-31 to us since they sell to both sides.
> 
> Again none of us knows the future , but I hope for the best
> 
> 
> Also Bangladesh has 0 arms industry , we can't even make our own indigenous assault rifles or even shot guns or handguns.
> 
> Singapore aka a nation wayyyyy smaller than us has a better military industrial complex than us , Bangladesh has no excuse but I feel like India doesn't want Bangladesh to make it's own weapons cause then we can defend ourselves much better.



Look, where in my comment I said Myanmar will have 1 trillion economy ?

Qatar is different since there is already US base there and their request also hasnt been accepted yet. One of the reason they reject our proposal is also because Indonesia cannot fulfill US demand to make Indonesia one of permanent refuelling base for their plane.

Again what is the relation between your defense industry with possible KFX/IFX acquisition ?


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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> Look, where in my comment I said Myanmar will have 1 trillion economy ?
> 
> Qatar is different since there is already US base there and their request also hasnt been accepted yet. One of the reason they reject our proposal is also because Indonesia cannot fulfill US demand to make Indonesia one of permanent refuelling base for their plane.
> 
> Again what is the relation between your defense industry with possible KFX/IFX acquisition ?



Oh sorry I read that wrong my bad , the relation with our defense industry is that we want to be able to build or even modify certain things about the KFX and I feel like we won't be able to do that depending on the future. I mean that doesn't mean we can't get the KFX 

Also isn't Indonesia against the CCP ? Or do they just don't want American presence there ?


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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> Oh god no , Gripen or EFT all the way I don't want the same aircraft India flies


I think the chance of getting rafale is higher than other jets. Did you see how French are pushing it ? Team from dassault aviation visited our base and then had a meeting with coas in 8april 2019. Then delegates from safran electronics and defense had a meeting with coas at 26th September. And then 4days later 30th September French ambassador in Bangladesh had a meeting with coas. Then French def minister came to Bangladesh in February 2020. French papers wrote about baf's interest on rafale before and after def minister's visit. I saw rafale brochure in a pilots house. 
I know we are frustrated about baf's mrca procurement and people might call me a "sudanir fua" for bringing it again but I personally think rafale has more chance than eft


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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> Oh sorry I read that wrong my bad , the relation with our defense industry is that we want to be able to build or even modify certain things about the KFX and I feel like we won't be able to do that depending on the future. I mean that doesn't mean we can't get the KFX
> 
> Also isn't Indonesia against the CCP ? Or do they just don't want American presence there ?



Yup, Indonesia doesnt want to have US present in our territory, it is a matter of principle to us and even Indonesia do protest when Darwin in Australia become US base during SBY administration.

We are not against China as their nine dash line doesnt approach our territory in South China Sea, there is dispute in EEZ but China is not really aggressive against Indonesia, they tend to do enroachment if they feel upset with our official statement about Uigyur. The enroachment in January last year for instant is merely a respond when our foreign minister educate their foreign ministry directly in a meeting about the importance of freedom of religion.

This is our F 16 fly above China frigate in our EEZ in SCS. Ship can freely sail in other country EEZ and only economic activity which is banned.






Pretty much SCS choke point is inside our sea territory (archipelagic nation)

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> I think the chance of getting rafale is higher than other jets. Did you see how French are pushing it ? Team from dassault aviation visited our base and then had a meeting with coas in 8april 2019. Then delegates from safran electronics and defense had a meeting with coas at 26th September. And then 4days later 30th September French ambassador in Bangladesh had a meeting with coas. Then French def minister came to Bangladesh in February 2020. French papers wrote about baf's interest on rafale before and after def minister's visit. I saw rafale brochure in a pilots house.
> I know we are frustrated about baf's mrca procurement and people might call me a "sudanir fua" for bringing it again but I personally think rafale has more chance than eft



I mean just because France pushes something doesn't mean we will buy it , although yeah sadly the Rafale has a better chance but again Bangladesh is also very interested in the EFT also since we have better relations with U.K and somewhat with France. 

Rafale makes no sense cause again we don't want the same aircraft India has , in a war situation France will support India not us. 

We don't truly know if the pilots want the Rafale

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> We don't truly know if the pilots want the Rafale


Our "double burners" want rafale...that's what I have heard. But its baf we are talking about. So let's see what happens

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> I think the chance of getting rafale is higher than other jets. Did you see how French are pushing it ? Team from dassault aviation visited our base and then had a meeting with coas in 8april 2019. Then delegates from safran electronics and defense had a meeting with coas at 26th September. And then 4days later 30th September French ambassador in Bangladesh had a meeting with coas. Then French def minister came to Bangladesh in February 2020. French papers wrote about baf's interest on rafale before and after def minister's visit. I saw rafale brochure in a pilots house.
> I know we are frustrated about baf's mrca procurement and people might call me a "sudanir fua" for bringing it again but I personally think rafale has more chance than eft


Zero chance of Rafale being procured. A lot of countries visit Bangladeshi officials and hand brochures. I know enough defence personnel to know how many souvenirs they receive from suppliers promoting their products. Means nothing.

Rafale is simply not affordable. For the same reason EFT is also less likely. DGDP is also mighty pissed at the Russians due to their arm-twisting aftersales tactics although they have many lobbyists. J-10s are most likely to fullfill the approved procurement of 16 fighter jets.

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## alphapak

Destranator said:


> Zero chance of Rafale being procured. A lot of countries visit Bangladeshi officials and hand brochures. I know enough defence personnel to know how many souvenirs they receive from suppliers promoting their products. Means nothing.
> 
> Rafale is simply not affordable. For the same reason EFT is also less likely. DGDP is also mighty pissed at the Russians due to their arm-twisting aftersales tactics although they have many lobbyists. J-10s are most likely to fullfill the approved procurement of 16 fighter jets.



Rafale and Eurofighters are money death traps. It will be better to go for J10 or Gripens,
get them in bigger numbers.

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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> Zero chance of Rafale being procured. A lot of countries visit Bangladeshi officials and hand brochures. I know enough defence personnel to know how many souvenirs they receive from suppliers promoting their products. Means nothing.
> 
> Rafale is simply not affordable. For the same reason EFT is also less likely. DGDP is also mighty pissed at the Russians due to their arm-twisting aftersales tactics although they have many lobbyists. J-10s are most likely to fullfill the approved procurement of 16 fighter jets.


J10 as mrca ? Not gonna happen. Mark my words. It's not about brochure. Even COAS said we need something cutting edge tech. They are taking so much time to procure 16 jets. And it's not gonna be Chinese. Something double engine will come for sure. Forget Russians due to catsaa and those companies are blacklisted by USA


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> J10 as mrca ? Not gonna happen. Mark my words. It's not about brochure. Even COAS said we need something cutting edge tech. They are taking so much time to procure 16 jets. And it's not gonna be Chinese. Something double engine will come for sure. Forget Russians due to catsaa and those companies are blacklisted by USA


CAS mama also said we need something cost effective. BAF also terms MiG-29B (analog cockpit, non-BVR radar) as "ottadhunik" so there's that for "cutting edge".

Ultimately what they say in public means "kaker thang".

CAATSA apart DGDP is singing "kaata laga" from their experience of dealing with the Russians.
Even Russian made MiG-29s are getting upgraded in Belarus. Contract for MRO plant for Russian made BTR-80 has gone to the Ukrainians. How is that for a middle finger? Russians are out.

If it is not Chinese it will be 16 EFTs and then BAF will be going to sleep for another 10 years until F-7BG/BGIs start falling off the sky every other day like the MBs as there is no way the govt is approving more than 1 squadron of EFTs in the next 5 years due to costs.

Also please stop treating the specs listed in the failed 2017 tender for Russian jets as Gospel. Erase it from your memories as it has no bearing on procurement today. I see @The Ronin make the same mistake.
The 16 jets approved DO NOT have to be twin engine.

My prefered options for 4.5 gen (until 5th gen becomes available and affordable) are as follows (most to least preferred) considering affordability and strategic benefits:

4 sqd Gripen E/F

2 sqd Gripen E/F + 2 sqd J-10C

3 sqd Gripen E/F + 1 sqd EFT

3 sqd J-10C + 1 sqd EFT

4 sqd J-10C


BAF morons fail to see the benefits of Gripen as detailed by @Avicenna , @UKBengali , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) and myself many times so the most likely contenders for the 16 jets are J-10C and EFT.

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## Michael Corleone

Hey you know what we should have done? Taken China up on the offer to move f7 assembly line to bd. Atleast we could pump out f7s like t34 tanks 
Afterall Stalin did say, quantity has a quality of its own

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Hey you know what we should have done? Taken China up on the offer to move f7 assembly line to bd. Atleast we could pump out f7s like t34 tanks
> Afterall Stalin did say, quantity has a quality of its own


At least we could have then considered adding BVR capable radars to the fleet to put up credible air defence and readied BAF for assembly of fifth gen fighters further down the track.

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Hey you know what we should have done? Taken China up on the offer to move f7 assembly line to bd. Atleast we could pump out f7s like t34 tanks
> Afterall Stalin did say, quantity has a quality of its own



BAF needs a 4th gen or 4.5 gen jet not a 3rd gen F7, that will be a step backwards.


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## siegecrossbow

alphapak said:


> BAF needs a 4th gen or 4.5 gen jet not a 3rd gen F7, that will be a step backwards.



I agree but I get Michael Core line’s point. Having an assembly line would give Bangladesh hands on experience with assembling/testing/maintaining fighter aircraft. Such experience would come in handy down the road.

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## KapitaanAli

Yes, F7 could have been to Bangladesh what MiG21 was to India and JF17 is to Pakistan. First hand experience in production and maintenance/overhaul of a supersonic fighter.

Then they could have used that experience in maintaining the Tejas, which is a generation ahead in material science and avionics.


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## Michael Corleone

KapitaanAli said:


> Yes, F7 could have been to Bangladesh what MiG21 was to India and JF17 is to Pakistan. First hand experience in production and maintenance/overhaul of a supersonic fighter.
> 
> Then they could have used that experience in maintaining the Tejas, which is a generation ahead in material science and avionics.


yea. Made of f22 raptors left nut

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Hey you know what we should have done? Taken China up on the offer to move f7 assembly line to bd. Atleast we could pump out f7s like t34 tanks
> Afterall Stalin did say, quantity has a quality of its own




China would have given the assembly line to us at minimal cost. I thought at the time it was a mistake not taking it and still do. BD could have produced several sqd of F7 by now. I agree quantity matters...

It would have given us valuable skills..... as ever BAF leadership have sh*t for brains.... what the hell is the point of aeronautical collage or whatever with the intention of building trainers....we could have been putting together actual fighters although they are at best 3+G. BAF with lets say 100 BGI's positioned around the bases would give second thought to our enemies. They are good enough for point defense.

BAF absolute disgrace to the race.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> China would have given the assembly line to us at minimal cost. I thought at the time it was a mistake not taking it and still do. BD could have produced several sqd of F7 by now. I agree quantity matters...
> 
> It would have given us valuable skills..... as ever BAF leadership have sh*t for brains.... what the hell is the point of aeronautical collage or whatever with the intention of building trainers....we could have been putting together actual fighters although they are at best 3+G. BAF with lets say 100 BGI's positioned around the bases would give second thought to our enemies. They are good enough for point defense.
> 
> BAF absolute disgrace to the race.


3g fighters are still better than latest trainers in many ways and I agree with you. 
BAF is an absolute disgrace, basically the whole of armed forces is.

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> 3g fighters are still better than latest trainers in many ways and I agree with you.
> BAF is an absolute disgrace, basically the whole of armed forces is.



Well dawg honestly I don't even know what BAF is even thinking of , I have a bad feeling that if BAF doesn't get anything Myanmar will use this weakness and do something about it. 


People over here saying we will get our fighters by 2025 , but the thing is why would BAF keep a secret of making a deal to buy fighters ? And 2025 is 5 years less than 2030 aka our MUH HUH FORCES GOAL 2030. 


I have lost hope for BAF a long time ago , I went from expecting SU30s,SU35s to hoping for J-10s and or EFT to now not even giving a single dam.


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Well dawg honestly I don't even know what BAF is even thinking of , I have a bad feeling that if BAF doesn't get anything Myanmar will use this weakness and do something about it.
> 
> 
> People over here saying we will get our fighters by 2025 , but the thing is why would BAF keep a secret of making a deal to buy fighters ? And 2025 is 5 years less than 2030 aka our MUH HUH FORCES GOAL 2030.
> 
> 
> I have lost hope for BAF a long time ago , I went from expecting SU30s,SU35s to hoping for J-10s and or EFT to now not even giving a single dam.


Me and @DalalErMaNodi have discussed this. Bangladesh will do nothing about it until myanmar does a Pearl Harbor on Bangladesh. When they see their frigates and subs sunk in Chittagong harbor they’ll change for sure

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Me and @DalalErMaNodi have discussed this. Bangladesh will do nothing about it until myanmar does a Pearl Harbor on Bangladesh. When they see their frigates and subs sunk in Chittagong harbor they’ll change for sure



BAF is going to run away like the French in ww2 , they expect India to save their asses  


Like what's the point of Bangladesh if India is going to indirectly control you ?


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> BAF is going to run away like the French in ww2 , they expect India to save their asses
> 
> 
> Like what's the point of Bangladesh if India is going to indirectly control you ?


I reckon eventually bd will either be annexed into india along with Pakistan if they play their cards right or the three countries will become vassals states of China. Let’s see who wins

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## The Ronin

Air chief Marshal Msihuzamman Serniabat, Chief of Bangladesh Air Force, flew with Gp Capt Vivart Singh, Test Pilot with National Flight Test Center, Aeronautical Development Agency on LCA Tejas during #AeroIndia21

In the 30 minutes of force, he witnessed SWING ROLE capability of the aircraft using the radar, laser destination pod, helmet mounted display and sighting system assisted by excellent pilot vehicle interface provided on the glass cockpit of the aircraft.

He was also demonstrated bombing of targets using 1000 lb bombs on targets acquired on synthetic aperture radar mode. Later he carried out loop, barrel roll and hard turns. He was overwhelmed by the carefree handling and excellent manoeuvrability of the aircraft. At the end of flight, he appreciated ease of flying of Tejas aircraft and was impressed with the swing role capability of the aircraft.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358299396664791041


https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4699.pdf?fbclid=IwAR19UU56ztQXgrZR-qkoM94CO9HvGV6cAq8M3fahjHnTa17SvCp44IvcILA











Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO Bangladesh should pursue the Gripen E/F. I don't think they'll have a problem securing a financing facility from Sweden (e.g., great economic outlook). Order 36 aircraft, and then finance them (including maintenance costs) for 12 years, and after that, pivot to the KAI KFX. Don't worry about fighter numbers; make the early move to UCAVs via air-teaming.





Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> So, if it had been me, I would start with 36 JAS-39E/Fs with GlobalEye AEW&C, MBDA Meteor AAMs, and SCALP ALCMs. Get a financing facility from Sweden, and pay it off over 12 years. This cost will comprise of both the acquisition and the maintenance. You can even get Saab, GE, and MBDA to engage in offset agreements with your industry; basically, get the defence money to feedback into your manufacturing.
> 
> Then from the early 2030s, pivot to 18 KAI KFX (e.g., $4 b).



If we really have to go for aircraft with American systems one way or another then i don't see the problem in getting a all American aircraft like F-16, F-18 or F-15. Is it possible to integrate EU and Turkish weapons in them?



Destranator said:


> @The Ronin:
> Is @Bilal Khan (Quwa) too a "Gripen fanboy" now?
> 
> @Avicenna @UKBengali



It wasn't not about being a fanboy. Even i am a fanboy of American aircraft. It was about the possibility. 



Avicenna said:


> What the hell else does BAF want?



20% commission and mutton rezala. 🍖



Areesh said:


> Hasina wants Tejas



Tej-***!!

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The Ronin said:


> Air chief Marshal Msihuzamman Serniabat, Chief of Bangladesh Air Force, flew with Gp Capt Vivart Singh, Test Pilot with National Flight Test Center, Aeronautical Development Agency on LCA Tejas during #AeroIndia21
> 
> In the 30 minutes of force, he witnessed SWING ROLE capability of the aircraft using the radar, laser destination pod, helmet mounted display and sighting system assisted by excellent pilot vehicle interface provided on the glass cockpit of the aircraft.
> 
> He was also demonstrated bombing of targets using 1000 lb bombs on targets acquired on synthetic aperture radar mode. Later he carried out loop, barrel roll and hard turns. He was overwhelmed by the carefree handling and excellent manoeuvrability of the aircraft. At the end of flight, he appreciated ease of flying of Tejas aircraft and was impressed with the swing role capability of the aircraft.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358299396664791041
> 
> 
> https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4699.pdf?fbclid=IwAR19UU56ztQXgrZR-qkoM94CO9HvGV6cAq8M3fahjHnTa17SvCp44IvcILA
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 714869
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we really have to go for aircraft with American systems one way or another then i don't see the problem in getting a all American aircraft like F-16, F-18 or F-15. Is it possible to integrate EU and Turkish weapons in them?
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't not about being a fanboy. Even i am a fanboy of American aircraft. It was about the possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 20% commission and mutton rezala. 🍖
> 
> 
> 
> Tej-***!!


New 3rd party integration will cost a lot of money. It's not worth it with the Europeans -- just go with what they've already added to the platform. The Gripen probably has the most diverse weapons line-up in the form of both US and European munitions, can't go wrong.

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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> New 3rd party integration will cost a lot of money. It's not worth it with the Europeans -- just go with what they've already added to the platform. The Gripen probably has the most diverse weapons line-up in the form of both US and European munitions, can't go wrong.





Not to mention that the Gripen is pretty much plug and play with other force multipliers like Global Eye AWACS and A330 MRTT tankers.

By far the most logical buy for the BAF to keep them going till 5th gen fighters become available in the 2030s.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Not to mention that the Gripen is pretty much plug and play with other force multipliers like Global Eye AWACS and A330 MRTT tankers.
> 
> By far the most logical buy for the BAF to keep them going till 5th gen fighters become available till the 2030s.



Lol an autistic child can think better than the BAF , you expect them to buy such a logically great thing when they have the option to also not buy anything ? 

If BAF doesn't get anything this year or next year , it's over

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Not to mention that the Gripen is pretty much plug and play with other force multipliers like Global Eye AWACS and A330 MRTT tankers.
> 
> By far the most logical buy for the BAF to keep them going till 5th gen fighters become available till the 2030s.


Someone should hook up Saab with Haris. I see no hope otherwise.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Someone should hook up Saab with Haris. I see no hope otherwise.



Honestly that doesn't sound too bad , as long as BAF can get these dam Gripens I'd be happpy asf.

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## ghost250

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1129804737470049

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## The Ronin

⬆⬆ Seriously?! 😳 Ellie Goulding's Love Me Like You Do?! 😂 @Destranator @mb444 looks like BAF takes pleasure in your bashing. 😂

Anyway looks like the chief visited MBDA and Dassault stall.

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## KaiserX

It may just be a video game, but DCS is based off of real world metrics/performance/simulation of aircrafts and their missiles...

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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> ⬆⬆ Seriously?! 😳 Ellie Goulding's Love Me Like You Do?! 😂 @Destranator @mb444 looks like BAF takes pleasure in your bashing. 😂
> 
> Anyway looks like the chief visited MBDA and Dassault stall.




Surely you mean prodigys "smack my bitch up".


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## Michael Corleone

KaiserX said:


> It may just be a video game, but DCS is based off of real world metrics/performance/simulation of aircrafts and their missiles...


I’m wondering if the tactics demonstrated is even logical. Is this a simulation, multiplayer or player vs cpu?
Mig 29 SE are BVR capable. They carry r77 I don’t know where the YouTuber was going with this


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## KaiserX

Michael Corleone said:


> I’m wondering if the tactics demonstrated is even logical. Is this a simulation, multiplayer or player vs cpu?



DCS is a video game simulation but it uses real world metrics/performance/AI to get a close picture of reality. Their aircraft modules are submitted by the vendors. IE F16 modules came from lockheed engineers and the recent JF-17 module came from CAC engineers. Speed, rate of turn, radar range, drag, missile performance etc... are all the real thing computed in an AI environment.

This allows for every single detail such as HMS/HUD layouts to cockpit switches match the real fighter jet.

Notice in the above video, the JF-17B2 radar is able to track the large RCS mig-29s until well their in the kill zone of the SD-10 missiles (30 nautical miles). Likewise the mig-29s do not have advanced radars or bvr missiles as the JF-17 which also has much lower radar cross section than the Mig-29. This is real world metrics.

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## PakistaniAtBahrain

KaiserX said:


> DCS is a video game simulation but it uses real world metrics/performance/AI to get a close picture of reality. Their aircraft modules are submitted by the vendors. IE F16 modules came from lockheed engineers and the recent JF-17 module came from CAC engineers. Speed, rate of turn, radar range, drag, missile performance etc... are all the real thing computed in an AI environment.
> 
> This allows for every single detail such as HMS/HUD layouts to cockpit switches match the real fighter jet.
> 
> Notice in the above video, the JF-17B2 radar is able to track the large RCS mig-29s until well their in the kill zone of the SD-10 missiles (30 nautical miles). Likewise the mig-29s do not have advanced radars or bvr missiles as the JF-17 which also has much lower radar cross section than the Mig-29. This is real world metrics.



so this simulation is saying that its good for Bangladesh to buy JF17? or bad?


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## Michael Corleone

KaiserX said:


> DCS is a video game simulation but it uses real world metrics/performance/AI to get a close picture of reality. Their aircraft modules are submitted by the vendors. IE F16 modules came from lockheed engineers and the recent JF-17 module came from CAC engineers. Speed, rate of turn, radar range, drag, missile performance etc... are all the real thing computed in an AI environment.
> 
> This allows for every single detail such as HMS/HUD layouts to cockpit switches match the real fighter jet.
> 
> Notice in the above video, the JF-17B2 radar is able to track the large RCS mig-29s until well their in the kill zone of the SD-10 missiles (30 nautical miles). Likewise the mig-29s do not have advanced radars or bvr missiles as the JF-17 which also has much lower radar cross section than the Mig-29. This is real world metrics.


What I don’t get is BAF mig 29 she are BVR capable. It’s a SE variant. 🤔
But I’m not surprised at the outcome. It takes into account a 20 year old jet vs a less than 10 yo

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## Avicenna

ghost250 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1129804737470049



Wow.


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Wow.



This Ch*t*a seems too happy to meet Indian AF brass.

Shameful. Where is his friggin' backbone. He is an AF chief of a country for Allah's sake.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> What I don’t get is BAF mig 29 she are BVR capable. It’s a SE variant. 🤔
> But I’m not surprised at the outcome. It takes into account a 20 year old jet vs a less than 10 yo


BAF MiG-29s are non-BVR capable B variants (although currently being upgraded to BM standards in Belarus).

Some known internet personalities have spread misinformation on the original variant (S, SE, etc.).

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## ghost250

Destranator said:


> BAF MiG-29s are non-BVR capable B variants (although currently being upgraded to BM standards in Belarus).
> 
> Some known internet personalities have spread misinformation on the original variant (S, SE, etc.).


umm,thn R-27s bvr or not??


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## Destranator

ghost250 said:


> umm,thn R-27s bvr or not??



Rangewise R-27 is a BVR missile but you need a proper radar to use it effectively.
MiG-29B's N019 Sapfir 29 pulse-Doppler radar is not cut out for BVR engagements as it struggles to track and lock on targetz over long ranges.

MiG-29Bs will get taken out by Su-30s and JF-17s before they can even track them let alone launch R-27s.
The below is a good read:





__





History of MiG Aircraft (Part 8) – MiG-29 – MiG's 4th Generation fighter – Model Airplane Collectors






www.modelairplanecollectors.com

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## ghost250

Destranator said:


> Range wise R-27 is a BVR missile but you need a proper radar to use it effectively.
> MiG-29B's N019 Sapfir 29 pulse-Doppler radar is not cut out for BVR engagements as it struggles track and lock on at long ranges.
> 
> MiG-29Bs will get taken out by Su-30s and JF-17s before they can even launch R-27s.
> The below is a good read:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of MiG Aircraft (Part 8) – MiG-29 – MiG's 4th Generation fighter – Model Airplane Collectors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modelairplanecollectors.com


then whats the point of having bvr missile if we dont have proper radar to guide it?!! whats about BM version thn?...


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## Destranator

ghost250 said:


> then whats the point of having bvr missile if we dont have proper radar to guide it?!!



WVR use.




ghost250 said:


> whats about BM version thn?...


N109P radar


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> BAF MiG-29s are non-BVR capable B variants (although currently being upgraded to BM standards in Belarus).
> 
> Some known internet personalities have spread misinformation on the original variant (S, SE, etc.).


BAF itself. I remember reading from their website that single seaters are SE, dual seaters are UB
Also we have r27 missile inventory which is a BVR missile
Basically we cheated out on the radar when purchasing them. Can only engage 2 targets simultaneously and at lower rated range than contemporaries

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## Destranator

16 years after the last F-16 was delivered, the Air Force is thinking about buying more of them


F-16s could be ordered with F-15EXs, attritable aircraft, and next-generation fighters to replace older aircraft until enough F-35s are available.




www.businessinsider.com





The USAF is considering buying new F-16s and keeping F-16s in service till 2048.

What do you guys think of the below long term (procured by 2030-35) combinations for the single engine category should BAF be left with F-16s as the only options for single engine fighters (say BAF is unable to get Gripens and J-10s for whatever reason) and the US offers full armament and support packages?

Option 1: 3 sqd F-16 Block 70/72 (brand new with AESA radars)

Option 2: 2-3 sqd F-16 block 50/52 (refurbished with upgrades) + 1-2 sqd Block 70/72 (brand new with AESA radars)

Options 3: 3-4 sqd F-16 block 50/52 (refurbished with upgrades) 


@Avicenna @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal9 @The Ronin


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> 16 years after the last F-16 was delivered, the Air Force is thinking about buying more of them
> 
> 
> F-16s could be ordered with F-15EXs, attritable aircraft, and next-generation fighters to replace older aircraft until enough F-35s are available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The USAF is considering buying new F-16s and keeping F-16s in service till 2048.
> 
> What do you guys think of the below long term (procured by 2030-35) combinations for the single engine category should BAF be left with F-16s as the only options for single engine fighters (say BAF is unable to get Gripens and J-10s for whatever reason) and the US offers full armament and support packages?
> 
> Option 1: 3 sqd F-16 Block 70/72 (brand new with AESA radars)
> 
> Option 2: 2-3 sqd F-16 block 50/52 (refurbished with upgrades) + 1-2 sqd Block 70/72 (brand new with AESA radars)
> 
> Options 3: 3-4 sqd F-16 block 50/52 (refurbished with upgrades)
> 
> 
> @Avicenna @Michael Corleone @UKBengali @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal9 @The Ronin


Idk if Bangladesh will get access to block 70 but if they acquire block 50/52 it will be waste of money since it is near obsolescence 
USAF going to do a big dump of their inventory some time soon, they may offer these to Bangladesh. If the price is right they should get ad many low flight hours airframes as possible. If the price is high, it’s not worth it.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Idk if Bangladesh will get access to block 70 but if they acquire block 50/52 it will be waste of money since it is near obsolescence
> USAF going to do a big dump of their inventory some time soon, they may offer these to Bangladesh. If the price is right they should get ad many low flight hours airframes as possible. If the price is high, it’s not worth it.


We have to consider the fact that both IAF and MAF use relatively less reliable equipment. F-16s with their GE engines have high availability. When network connected, they can be deadly.

If block 52s can help us build up numbers, it is better than nothing.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> We have to consider the fact that both IAF and MAF use relatively less reliable equipment. F-16s with their GE engines have high availability. When network connected, they can be deadly.
> 
> If block 52s can help us build up numbers, it is better than nothing.


We should think of credible deterrence instead of numerical superiority. That we can never match with india. 
if india deployed rafale on eastern bases, that should be a worry for any would be block 52 pilot. 2 squadrons of f16 block 70 is enough... we don’t need more than that to put up defence against Indian rafales
Against myanmar they don’t even stand a chance... 1 squadron scrambled with awecs Can easily fox 3 all bogies before they even enter our airspace

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## HostileInsurgent

Destranator said:


> IAF


You think that we’ll attack you for no reason? Come On.


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## mb444

HostileInsurgent said:


> You think that we’ll attack you for no reason? Come On.




Hindutva goons require reasons to attack muslims?

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## HostileInsurgent

mb444 said:


> Hindutva goons require reasons to attack muslims?


Did we attack you anytime in the 12+ years of BJP rule overall? And please don’t give crap logics of Hindutva of which you have zero knowledge, just feeded The Wire’s propaganda articles into your brain and spamming this thing everywhere, Hindutva lol.


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## mb444

HostileInsurgent said:


> Did we attack you anytime in the 12+ years of BJP rule overall? And please don’t give crap logics of Hindutva of which you have zero knowledge, just feeded The Wire’s propaganda articles into your brain and spamming this thing everywhere, Hindutva lol.




Hundreds have died on the border.... you are disenfrancising muslims of nationality simply because they are Muslims.....these are all caused by your hindutva fascism.. did you read what your amit shah said yesterday.....you politicians are always talking about attacking us..... would be stupid to ignore your actions..

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## HostileInsurgent

mb444 said:


> you are disenfrancising muslims of nationality simply because they are Muslims


Don’t speak on issues you have 0 knowledge on, there are thousands of Rohingya’s who are illegally living in India, plus there are some East Pakistanis (Today’s Bangladeshis) who migrated to India during Pakistan Army’s Operation Searchlight. Cross border killings happen because people from both sides cross borders as there is no proper fencing, hence both at fault.

NRC has nothing to do with Bangladeshis living in Bangladesh.

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## mb444

HostileInsurgent said:


> Don’t speak on issues you have 0 knowledge on, there are thousands of Rohingya’s who are illegally living in India, plus there are some East Pakistanis (Today’s Bangladeshis) who migrated to India during Pakistan Army’s Operation Searchlight. Cross border killings happen because people from both sides cross borders as there is no proper fencing, hence both at fault.
> 
> NRC has nothing to do with Bangladeshis living in Bangladesh.




So whats the hindutva plan for the muslims then in india in general and those caught by the NRC in particular? 

We should ignore the comments of your ministers should we....

What are you doing to kashmir I assume is your template for all the muslims of the subcontinent...

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## Michael Corleone

HostileInsurgent said:


> Did we attack you anytime in the 12+ years of BJP rule overall? And please don’t give crap logics of Hindutva of which you have zero knowledge, just feeded The Wire’s propaganda articles into your brain and spamming this thing everywhere, Hindutva lol.


Hitting us doesn’t win election votes. Hitting Pakistan for no reason does. Aka feb 2019


HostileInsurgent said:


> plus there are some East Pakistanis (Today’s Bangladeshis) who migrated to India during Pakistan Army’s Operation Searchlight.


As in Hindus who’ve already become Indian citizens because they’re hindus?

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## HostileInsurgent

mb444 said:


> So whats the hindutva plan for the muslims then in india in general and those caught by the NRC in particular?


Anyone without India’s citizenship will be sent to detention camps. To know who all are living illegally in India, nothing special or new.


mb444 said:


> We should ignore the comments of your ministers should we....


yes please, many ministers across the globe comment on us, we just ignore them.


mb444 said:


> What are you doing to kashmir I assume is your template for all the muslims of the subcontinent...


stop consuming whatever is being fed to you regarding Kashmir on this forum, we all know Pakistanis know better than the ones actually in J&K.


Michael Corleone said:


> As in Hindus who’ve already become Indian citizens because they’re hindus?


Yes, this is what 2 nation theory was, any Non-Muslim living in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh will be given Indian citizenship because we consider them our own people, Muslims voted and created a seperate state Pakistan (now Pakistan and Bangladesh) Hence any Muslim living in India who belongs to Pakistan, Bangladesh or Afghanistan who does not have citizenship of India or no legal basis to stay here will be sent to detention camps as they wanted a seperate state, excluding the Afghan muslims who came here as refugees due to the war in Afghanistan will not be sent to detention camps. Nothing special or gross. And don’t make out wrong meanings of NRC. It is just what is ethical. There are some Pakistan army officers who belong to East Pakistan living in India with Indian citizenship. If any Pakistani or Bangladeshi muslim refugee wants to have Indian citizenship, they can apply and get it if they are eligible (its unlikely that any Muslim from pakistan or bangladesh will come to India for citizenship).


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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Hitting us doesn’t win election votes. Hitting Pakistan for no reason does. Aka feb 2019



They didn't hit us but they got humiliated around the world, they lost a Mig 21, Su 30,
own goal on thier heliicopter and top of that a captured pilot. LOL

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## PakistaniAtBahrain

HostileInsurgent said:


> stop consuming whatever is being fed to you regarding Kashmir on this forum, we all know Pakistanis know better than the ones actually in J&K.



oh yeah. kashmiris are having the time of their lives living in total lockdown for over a year.

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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> They didn't hit us but they got humiliated around the world, they lost a Mig 21, Su 30,
> own goal on thier heliicopter and top of that a captured pilot. LOL


Yep. I was happy that Pakistan shot down their jet... I was rejoicing when Indian colleagues were bragging they bombed your country... next day everyone was quiet af 😂
I was also not surprised. PAF have always had some of the best pilots in the world.

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Yep. I was happy that Pakistan shot down their jet... I was rejoicing when Indian colleagues were bragging they bombed your country... next day everyone was quiet af 😂
> I was also not surprised. PAF have always had some of the best pilots in the world.



I just wished that PAF gave them abit more of a thumping, maybe next time. Inshallah.

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## Jobless Jack

Sometimes, i wonder if it would be best to scrap BAF. Save cash and give the SAMs to the army and navy.

At its state, BAF is basicLly a ground based air defense force. In most countries a Brigadier does this job. Is having a full 4 star officer commanding BAF worth it?

Atleast develop a good drone capability

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## PakistaniAtBahrain

Jobless Jack said:


> Sometimes, i wonder if it would be best to scrap BAF. Save cash and give the SAMs to the army and navy.
> 
> At its state, BAF is basicLly a ground based air defense force. In most countries a Brigadier does this job. Is having a full 4 star officer commanding BAF worth it?



i think Bangladesh is missing a trick. even though Bangladesh has a smaller defence budget than India, similar to Pakistan's situation, they can get more bang for their buck and team up with Pakistan/Turkey/China to make their own jets. spread out the R&D costs and focus on quality over quantity, because Bangladesh will never beat India in quantity just like we cant. Bangladesh can get their fair share of export sales of these homemade jets when its sold to countries outside this group. over time this group can develop specialties like the Europeans do and have indigenous defence industry. for example, Bangladesh could specialise in jet engines, Pakistan could do weapons, Turkey could do avionics, etc. that way we dont need to rely on the West for parts and sanctions would have no impact on the groups ability to defend themselves.

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## Jobless Jack

PakistaniAtBahrain said:


> i think Bangladesh is missing a trick. even though Bangladesh has a smaller defence budget than India, similar to Pakistan's situation, they can get more bang for their buck and team up with Pakistan/Turkey/China to make their own jets. spread out the R&D costs and focus on quality over quantity, because Bangladesh will never beat India in quantity just like we cant. Bangladesh can get their fair share of export sales of these homemade jets when its sold to countries outside this group. over time this group can develop specialties like the Europeans do and have indigenous defence industry. for example, Bangladesh could specialise in jet engines, Pakistan could do weapons, Turkey could do avionics, etc. that way we dont need to rely on the West for parts and sanctions would have no impact on the groups ability to defend themselves.




Better yet.. Load up with cruise missiles and strike drones buy it from turjey or china. Plane for plane BD cannot match india. Total waste of cash

As for Burma. I dont think they want a conflict with BD. Too much internal problems..however against burma, what BD has is sufficient if they wish to take a little damage.. 

To say build aircraft engines BD needs a lot of technical skills. Not available now. But building of the aeronautical complex is the right step forward.

However I wish BD Pak and turkey would co- op on the naval side. Jointly build sub or destroyer.

All i am saying is that BAF is eating up precious resourse doing a job that in most countries the armies ground defense force does. Or the air wing of a navy does.


----------



## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> I just wished that PAF gave them abit more of a thumping, maybe next time. Inshallah.


Pakistan should have escalated it. This time they had good reason. But maybe they thought of economic impact


Jobless Jack said:


> Sometimes, i wonder if it would be best to scrap BAF. Save cash and give the SAMs to the army and navy.
> 
> At its state, BAF is basicLly a ground based air defense force. In most countries a Brigadier does this job. Is having a full 4 star officer commanding BAF worth it?
> 
> Atleast develop a good drone capability


Imperial japan had no Air Force. Their aviation was divided between army and navy and naval aviation was the best in the world. Bangladesh should look into this possibility. Cannibalize BAF, it’s a useless organization

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## gangsta_rap

Michael Corleone said:


> Pakistan should have escalated it. This time they had good reason. But maybe they thought of economic impact


pakistanis can't seem to grasp this but the world was on india's side during those weeks. if pakistan would have escalated the response to more than what india had initially done then it would've definitly resulted in pakistan being punished by western countries either with sanctions or otherwise.

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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> However I wish BD Pak and turkey would co- op on the naval side. Jointly build sub or destroyer


Turkey already has the platform. We can customize and put more money in to bring down cost. 
this project azm of Pakistan... I don’t get why Pakistan is not collating with turkey on TFX. Seems like a no brainer.


gangsta_rap said:


> pakistanis can't seem to grasp this but the world was on india's side during those weeks. if pakistan would have escalated the response to more than what india had initially done then it would've definitly resulted in pakistan being punished by western countries either with sanctions or otherwise.


Yeah Pakistan was in heavy pickle politically and economically. Still the response was befitting and high profile. Nobody cares if 10 soldiers die on the LOC, but people do care when one country is kicking *** of another in the air.


----------



## PakistaniAtBahrain

Michael Corleone said:


> Pakistan should have escalated it. This time they had good reason. But maybe they thought of economic impact



i think it was the economic impact. we just dont have the money right now to afford a war. we also need to win the media war/image. if we escalated then India and the media would just say "Pakistan are the aggressors" and our economy would have collapsed if not worse.



Michael Corleone said:


> Imperial japan had no Air Force. Their aviation was divided between army and navy and naval aviation was the best in the world. Bangladesh should look into this possibility. Cannibalize BAF, it’s a useless organization



but Japan's navy in WW2 had aircraft carriers. you want Bangladesh to have aircraft carriers? its super expensive and losing value as technology progresses.


Michael Corleone said:


> this project azm of Pakistan... I don’t get why Pakistan is not collating with turkey on TFX. Seems like a no brainer.



i dont know. maybe we have different requirements. maybe NATO pressure on Turkey not to include Pakistan.

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## Michael Corleone

PakistaniAtBahrain said:


> i think it was the economic impact. we just dont have the money right now to afford a war. we also need to win the media war/image. if we escalated then India and the media would just say "Pakistan are the aggressors" and our economy would have collapsed if not worse.
> 
> 
> 
> but Japan's navy in WW2 had aircraft carriers. you want Bangladesh to have aircraft carriers? its super expensive and losing value as technology progresses.
> 
> 
> i dont know. maybe we have different requirements. maybe NATO pressure on Turkey not to include Pakistan.


Bangladesh doesn’t need aircraft carrier it just needs to keep sea lane open and strategic targets protected. Saint Martin should get an airfield at the least imo.
Possibly. UK is aiding turkey on TFX so maybe that’s why. Or maybe Pakistan wants to keep relations with China so developing with them

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## alphapak

Bangladesh should go the Iranian way and make a load of missiles.


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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> Bangladesh should go the Iranian way and make a load of missiles.


difficult when maximum capability we achieved is silicones, printed circuits etc
still need aerospace talents... now with that university opened up, maybe in 10-20 years some UCAV drones at best
need to buy missiles with tot... MBDA is a good missile seller to us

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## Jobless Jack

alphapak said:


> Bangladesh should go the Iranian way and make a load of missiles.


Agreed. Air to air, BD cant beat india. Even if BAF gets 10 squadrons with 4th gen MRCA. At best these will be effective for a week.

However if BD develops strike drone capability along with cruise missile, and anti aircraft capability, now that will be deadly. Will probable keep the IAF from initiating any conflict ij the first place. Excellent deterrenc.

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## SpaceMan18

Bangladesh's new long ranger radar

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Bangladesh's new long ranger radar


Should put another in Dhaka for redundancy purposes

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## Avicenna

The Saab Gripen story


In an industry first we spoke with a Bangladeshi defence supply firm representative working closely with the DGDP about the prospects of bringing the Saab




www.defseca.com





Can't copy/paste but here you go.

Addresses the Gripen to BAF issue.

Thanks DEFSECA!

Now this was an excellent article with good, relevant info!!

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) Thoughts?


----------



## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> The Saab Gripen story
> 
> 
> In an industry first we spoke with a Bangladeshi defence supply firm representative working closely with the DGDP about the prospects of bringing the Saab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't copy/paste but here you go.
> 
> Addresses the Gripen to BAF issue.
> 
> Thanks DEFSECA!
> 
> Now this was an excellent article with good, relevant info!!
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) Thoughts?



Sounds like unsubstantiated gossip. Saab had no issues selling Gripens to Thailand or AEW&C systems to Pakistan (despite Indian pressure and loss of Indian business) but selling to Bangladesh would "hurt brand image"?

Makes no sense to turn down customers like that in an already competitive market. Sorry to say but many Bangladeshis have a habit of making stuff up to sound knowledgeable instead of admitting ignorance.

In the past Amra Khan "spoke to insiders" on many occasions who advised that "MiG-35 would form the backbone", "EFT is confirmed", "Chengdu is speeding up J-10 production for Bangladesh", etc.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Avicenna said:


> The Saab Gripen story
> 
> 
> In an industry first we spoke with a Bangladeshi defence supply firm representative working closely with the DGDP about the prospects of bringing the Saab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't copy/paste but here you go.
> 
> Addresses the Gripen to BAF issue.
> 
> Thanks DEFSECA!
> 
> Now this was an excellent article with good, relevant info!!
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) Thoughts?


Next we will be told Bangladesh will start domestically producing F22s

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## BlackViking

Avicenna said:


> The Saab Gripen story
> 
> 
> In an industry first we spoke with a Bangladeshi defence supply firm representative working closely with the DGDP about the prospects of bringing the Saab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't copy/paste but here you go.
> 
> Addresses the Gripen to BAF issue.
> 
> Thanks DEFSECA!
> 
> Now this was an excellent article with good, relevant info!!
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) Thoughts?


This is bullshit . He did no such interview. Dassault wants to sell rafale , Boeing wants to sell Apache and F18 , UK offered eft and SAAB wants to observe bd economy for 2 years....LOL 
Saab is not the problem...the problem is baf. They wants to replace F7's with something cheaper , not with something with a price tag of 150+ mil. And as usual they are "confused" they dont know which one to buy

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Sounds like unsubstantiated gossip. Saab had no issues selling Gripens to Thailand or AEW&C systems to Pakistan (despite Indian pressure and loss of Indian business) but selling to Bangladesh would "hurt brand image"?
> 
> Makes no sense to turn down customers like that in an already competitive. Sorry to say but many Bangladeshis have a habit of making stuff up to sound knowledgeable instead of admitting ignorance.
> 
> In the past Amra Khan "spoke to insiders" on many occasions who advised that "MiG-35 would form the backbone", "EFT is confirmed", "Chengdu is speeding up J-10 production for Bangladesh", etc.


Making news out of his *** like usual. 
SAAB was ready to sell to bd, bd wanted second hand fighters
Like I said, DGDP agent is himself, the online tshirt seller

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Like I said, DGDP agent is himself, the online tshirt seller


"Imported from abroad". Dont underestimate that guy 😂😂

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## Gomig-21

Check out this gorgeous Bangladeshi 29 in an almost vertical.







@Avicenna this is a special gift fo0r you

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## ziaulislam

BlackViking said:


> This is bullshit . He did no such interview. Dassault wants to sell rafale , Boeing wants to sell Apache and F18 , UK offered eft and SAAB wants to observe bd economy for 2 years....LOL
> Saab is not the problem...the problem is baf. They wants to replace F7's with something cheaper , not with something with a price tag of 150+ mil. And as usual they are "confused" they dont know which one to buy


 NOTHING is cheaper then F7..not even trainers like yak 130
probably yak 130 is what BAF will continue to buy
IMO BAF doesnt need a fighter, there is no real threat, since IAF is always there to support


----------



## Destranator

ziaulislam said:


> NOTHING is cheaper then F7..not even trainers like yak 130
> probably yak 130 is what BAF will continue to buy


He meant cheaper than current options in the market, not cheaper than F-7s.

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## Gomig-21

Even though the Gripen is only 9000 Eros less than the exceptionally better Rafale. the hourly cost for the Rafale is exorbitantly high. But remember, cost pays for the most part.
Check this graph out:



Aircraft Type UUnit Procurement Costs PProgram Unit Costs CComments RRafale C ((EUR 51.8) $ 62.1 ((EUR 113.2) $ 135.8 AAir force single-seat (inc VAT) ...Rafale M ((EUR 56.6) $ 67.9 ((EUR 121.4) $ 145.7 NNaval version (inc VAT) J*JAS-39C Gripen (**(Poland bid) $ 68.9 (**(SEK 552.9) $ 76.07 S**Swedish version (inc VAT) F*
My opinion you purchase 10 Rafales and put your best pilots in them and then check out the Gripen altho0ught I don't recommend that because of the slew of US equipment they will hose you on or refuse to offer them and create a nightmare and you have at last 10 years left on those 29s you can augment them with MIG-35 with aesa radars or even Su-30s with the BARS. No one willl come near you. Question is, can Banga {love that name} afford all this?

PS Some of the early C and M Rafale are less expensive in both purchase cost and hourly cost,

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Making news out of his *** like usual.
> SAAB was ready to sell to bd, bd wanted second hand fighters
> Like I said, DGDP agent is himself, the online tshirt seller



Yeah honestly we missed the opportunity to buy the Gripens , they are perfect for us but again BAF doesn't see the quality they see corruption.

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## SpaceMan18

Gomig-21 said:


> Even though the Gripen is only 9000 Eros less than the exceptionally better Rafale. the hourly cost for the Rafale is exorbitantly high. But remember, cost pays for the most part.
> Check this graph out:
> 
> 
> 
> Aircraft Type UUnit Procurement Costs PProgram Unit Costs CComments RGriRafale C ((EUR 51.8) $ 62.1 ((EUR 113.2) $ 135.8 AAir force single-seat (inc VAT) ...Rafale M ((EUR 56.6) $ 67.9 ((EUR 121.4) $ 145.7 NNaval version (inc VAT) J*JAS-39C Gripen (**(Poland bid) $ 68.9 (**(SEK 552.9) $ 76.07 S**Swedish version (inc VAT) F*
> My opinion you purchase 10 Rafales and put your best pilots in them and then check out the Gripen altho0ught I don't recommend that because of the slew of US equipment they will hose you on or refuse to offer them and create a nightmare and you have at last 10 years left on those 29s you can augment them with MIG-35 with aesa radars or even Su-30s with the BARS. No one willl come near you. Question is, can Banga {love that name} afford all this?
> 
> PS Some of the early C and M Rafale are less expensive in both purchase cost and hourly cost,




Hell no we ain't buying Rafales , India operates them. And no to the Su30s cause Myanmar operates them , plus they also operate JF-17s 

Our best bet is to go fully Gripen ,cause who needs twin engine fighters when you can buy an aerial refueling tanker instead lol.

Naval versions of the Gripen can be used also for maritime strike , not sure if you can put Turkish cruise missiles on them but maybe. 


So a squadron of jets for the Airforce 
A second squadron for the Navy for maritime strike 
2-4 AWACS
2 dedicated EW aircrafts 
2-3 aerial refueling aircrafts 
3-4 ASW or Maritime patrol aircrafts

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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> NOTHING is cheaper then F7..not even trainers like yak 130
> probably yak 130 is what BAF will continue to buy
> IMO BAF doesnt need a fighter, there is no real threat, since IAF is always there to support


IAF is the threat. One nicely place guided bomb on Chittagong port and everyone loses their shit

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## Avicenna

Gomig-21 said:


> Check out this gorgeous Bangladeshi 29 in an almost vertical.
> 
> View attachment 717555
> 
> 
> @Avicenna this is a special gift fo0r you



Appreciate it bro!

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> "Imported from abroad". Dont underestimate that guy 😂😂


Yeah. Thailand

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## BlackViking

Avicenna said:


> The Saab Gripen story
> 
> 
> In an industry first we spoke with a Bangladeshi defence supply firm representative working closely with the DGDP about the prospects of bringing the Saab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't copy/paste but here you go.
> 
> Addresses the Gripen to BAF issue.
> 
> Thanks DEFSECA!
> 
> Now this was an excellent article with good, relevant info!!
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) Thoughts?


Behind the scene


----------



## SpaceMan18

Hm Air Force Cheif talking about MRCA program

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hm Air Force Cheif talking about MRCA program



Credit to him for admitting (0:17) BAF's failure in providing sufficient deterrence.
He seems to be frustrated with the government. This is where BAF differs from BA and BN who are able to stand firm and force the bureaucracy and political leadership to cater to their demands while BAF meekly caves in.

He also blasted the lack of innovation and initiatives in the aviation field by the private sector and emphasised on the need for streamlining maintenance of aviation assets of the three services.

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hm Air Force Cheif talking about MRCA program


Wallah I’ve much respect for this guy, as much as general Ikbal karim, true patriots with excellent perspectives on their respective field. Too bad their efforts are hindered by govt. bureaucracy

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Wallah I’ve much respect for this guy, as much as general Ikbal karim, true patriots with excellent perspectives on their respective field. Too bad their efforts are hindered by govt. bureaucracy




Yeah I agree , hopefully we get these 4th gen fighters soon I have some hope left. 
He even talked about how Bangladesh is behind in innovation and not being an industrialized country. 

Bangladesh only hope is to industrialize and get it's gdp per capita up , just so we can have a youth that's hopefully educated and has just the basic necessities and he or she can make apps etc for us to become eventually post industrial

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> He even talked about how Bangladesh is behind in innovation and not being an industrialized country.


He gets a pass because he’s hasina’s relative, imagine you and me saying it... we would get DSA slapped on our rear and sent to jail

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> He gets a pass because he’s hasina’s relative, imagine you and me saying it... we would get DSA slapped on our rear and sent to jail




Lol true , i'm over here dreaming how I want Bangladesh to look in the future 


My dream 





What it will probably look like

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Lol true , i'm over here dreaming how I want Bangladesh to look in the future
> 
> 
> My dream
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What it will probably look like
> View attachment 718382


Think positive 🤣

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Think positive 🤣
> View attachment 718384



Sheik Hasina : Hol up let me name this Bangubandu Floating City

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Sheik Hasina : Hol up let me name this Bangubandu Floating City


Bongobondhu bashan char ☠️

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Bongobondhu bashan char ☠




How dare you... Append the name of our glorious, infallible father of the nation to a glorified slum...


Repent for your sins, Say it with me;

Joy Bangla! Joi Bangabandhu!

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> How dare you... Append the name of our glorious, infallible father of the nation to a glorified slum...
> 
> 
> Repent for your sins, Say it with me;
> 
> Joy Bangla! Joi Bangabandhu!


mAdE bY BaNgLaDeSH NAvY 😭

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> mAdE bY BaNgLaDeSH NAvY 😭




Honestly, it's pretty good as far as free housing goes, the only sticking point is, why the government can do more of the nature for our own homeless citizens.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Honestly, it's pretty good as far as free housing goes, the only sticking point is, why the government can do more of the nature for our own homeless citizens.


True


----------



## X-ray Papa

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Honestly, it's pretty good as far as free housing goes, the only sticking point is, why the government can do more of the nature for our own homeless citizens.


Dhaka would be much better with high rise public housing,too Bad its fill with ugly private housing.

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## DalalErMaNodi

X-ray Papa said:


> Dhaka would be much better with high rise public housing,too Bad its fill with ugly private housing.


I agree, fewer buildings, built with better materials and stricter government oversight...

But no, every fag wants his own building... Minimum 5 tala bari lagbe.. naile maiyya dibena


In Chittagong, everyone is destroying our old extended family type houses... Where my mother comes from, I grew up surrounded by my entire extended family... The entire 500 meter stretch of road was lined by large alleys on both sides that led to atleast 15 houses, each house occupied by members of one particular family and that alley belonging to the family.

We knew everybody, we had no reason for fear of crime or anything of the sort.. We go back atleast 4 generations there in the same house along with most people in the area...

Now even this small piece of familiar heaven is being desecrated, with the newer generation, flipping the older ones off, destroying old bungalow type of houses to build ugly 5 storey buildings that take up half the street.

All in an effort to rent previously family neighbourhoods to labourers and migrants from other parts of Southern Bangladesh, who account for most of the crime sadly...

Pathetic to say the least, expect the rate of crime in Chittagong city to reach parity with Dhaka soon.

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## Avicenna

I wonder if BAF could do something similar with the RAF.





__





USAF to help Vietnam establish UPT program with 3 training aircraft – Alert 5






alert5.com





*USAF to help Vietnam establish UPT program with 3 training aircraft*
Posted on February 19, 2021
The United States Air Force has issued a Request for Information (RFI) on behalf of Vietnam for three training aircraft.

*The aim is to help the Vietnam People’s Air Force (VPAF) establish its own Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT) Program based on the U.S. Air Force pilot training model.*
The aircraft must be delivered by mid-2023 and the package includes one full-fidelity, 360 degree out the window visual display system simulator and one computer-based training lab with twelve (12) student stations.

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> I agree, fewer buildings, built with better materials and stricter government oversight...
> 
> But no, every fag wants his own building... Minimum 5 tala bari lagbe.. naile maiyya dibena
> 
> 
> In Chittagong, everyone is destroying our old extended family type houses... Where my mother comes from, I grew up surrounded by my entire extended family... The entire 500 meter stretch of road was lined by large alleys on both sides that led to atleast 15 houses, each house occupied by members of one particular family and that alley belonging to the family.
> 
> We knew everybody, we had no reason for fear of crime or anything of the sort.. We go back atleast 4 generations there in the same house along with most people in the area...
> 
> Now even this small piece of familiar heaven is being desecrated, with the newer generation, flipping the older ones off, destroying old bungalow type of houses to build ugly 5 storey buildings that take up half the street.
> 
> All in an effort to rent previously family neighbourhoods to labourers and migrants from other parts of Southern Bangladesh, who account for most of the crime sadly...
> 
> Pathetic to say the least, expect the rate of crime in Chittagong city to reach parity with Dhaka soon.



Bangladeshis are the worst leaders lol , they can't even plan a proper city 


Dhaka is a ugly bomb ready to explode


Avicenna said:


> I wonder if BAF could do something similar with the RAF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USAF to help Vietnam establish UPT program with 3 training aircraft – Alert 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alert5.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *USAF to help Vietnam establish UPT program with 3 training aircraft*
> Posted on February 19, 2021
> The United States Air Force has issued a Request for Information (RFI) on behalf of Vietnam for three training aircraft.
> 
> *The aim is to help the Vietnam People’s Air Force (VPAF) establish its own Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT) Program based on the U.S. Air Force pilot training model.*
> The aircraft must be delivered by mid-2023 and the package includes one full-fidelity, 360 degree out the window visual display system simulator and one computer-based training lab with twelve (12) student stations.
> 
> View attachment 718409



One can dream , too bad Indian influence isn't going to help us


----------



## X-ray Papa

SpaceMan18 said:


> Bangladeshis are the worst leaders lol , they can't even plan a proper city
> 
> 
> Dhaka is a ugly bomb ready to explode


Who cares about planning a city, they cant even plan a proper neighbourhood.

I really want to chop of the legs of the guy who didnt include a pavement for people to walk.


DalalErMaNodi said:


> I agree, fewer buildings, built with better materials and stricter government oversight...
> 
> But no, every fag wants his own building... Minimum 5 tala bari lagbe.. naile maiyya dibena
> 
> 
> In Chittagong, everyone is destroying our old extended family type houses... Where my mother comes from, I grew up surrounded by my entire extended family... The entire 500 meter stretch of road was lined by large alleys on both sides that led to atleast 15 houses, each house occupied by members of one particular family and that alley belonging to the family.
> 
> We knew everybody, we had no reason for fear of crime or anything of the sort.. We go back atleast 4 generations there in the same house along with most people in the area...
> 
> Now even this small piece of familiar heaven is being desecrated, with the newer generation, flipping the older ones off, destroying old bungalow type of houses to build ugly 5 storey buildings that take up half the street.
> 
> All in an effort to rent previously family neighbourhoods to labourers and migrants from other parts of Southern Bangladesh, who account for most of the crime sadly...
> 
> Pathetic to say the least, expect the rate of crime in Chittagong city to reach parity with Dhaka soon.


I say Socialism is key for a Develop Bangladesh.


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## SpaceMan18

X-ray Papa said:


> Who cares about planning a city, they cant even plan a proper neighbourhood.
> 
> I really want to chop of the legs of the guy who didnt include a pavement for people to walk.
> 
> I say Socialism is key for a Develop Bangladesh.



At this point sighs* I guess , Capitalism is good but not yet for Bangladesh cause Bangladeshis are quite behind in a lot of social areas. 

Bangladesh has one opportunity to grow, 50/50 chance





While watching this I was wondering how Bangladesh would face in an air war against Myanmar or India , turns out we won't do that well. 

We don't even have bunch of SAMs or even long range radars , only now we got our Rat-31D radar


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## X-ray Papa

SpaceMan18 said:


> At this point sighs* I guess , Capitalism is good but not yet for Bangladesh cause Bangladeshis are quite behind in a lot of social areas.
> 
> Bangladesh has one opportunity to grow, 50/50 chance


To be honest, i dont give a f@@k about how our economy is growing 8% a year. I want to see high rise public Estate with playground for the kids to play. A park which i can exercise. A good public transport which i can travel to work etc

Now i call that development, not increasing the growth rate number. To make this happen we need socialism. The best that we follow China in almost everything until we are corrupt free and fill with intelligent people.



SpaceMan18 said:


> While watching this I was wondering how Bangladesh would face in an air war against Myanmar or India , turns out we won't do that well.
> 
> We don't even have bunch of SAMs or even long range radars , only now we got our Rat-31D radar


Bangladesh is without any stategic dept. Our airbase can be basically be destroyed very fast.

So what i suggest is have a wide rang of land-base ballistic and cruise missiles. These can be hidden in underground bunker and if our whole air force is destroyed we can bring those out and target delhi and yangoon.

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## SpaceMan18

X-ray Papa said:


> To be honest, i dont give a f@@k about how our economy is growing 8% a year. I want to see high rise public Estate with playground for the kids to play. A park which i can exercise. A good public transport which i can travel to work etc
> 
> Now i call that development, not increasing the growth rate number. To make this happen we need socialism. The best that we follow China in almost everything until we are corrupt free and fill with intelligent people.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is without any stategic dept. Our airbase can be basically be destroyed very fast.
> 
> So what i suggest is have a wide rang of land-base ballistic and cruise missiles. These can be hidden in underground bunker and if our whole air force is destroyed we can bring those out and target delhi and yangoon.



I guess , but in the end of the day it's up to the youth to decide since they are the future of Bangladesh. Bangladesh needs to work quick or else it will sink due to climate change.


But yeah , ballistic missiles are a good idea since it will also hopefully lead into Bangladesh's space rockets. 
But India doesn't want Bangladesh to get such weapons , or else India's surrounded. 

India's only hope in this region is Bangladesh , cause China and Pakistan hate India and Myanmar doesn't care and is a Chinese puppet plus Nepal isn't very fond of India either along with Sri Lanka who owes depts to China.

So that's why they're trying hard to control Bangladesh


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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I wonder if BAF could do something similar with the RAF


We used to. Then we stopped. 
Fun fact: RAF included Bangladesh syllabus model when we used to train with them

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## Valar.



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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> We used to. Then we stopped.
> Fun fact: RAF included Bangladesh syllabus model when we used to train with them



Sad to see what our air force is today , we are blessed with not having to be sanctioned and end up not buying modern 4th gen fighters


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Should put another in Dhaka for redundancy purposes


That way the boro baper polas of puran Dhaka would also know how deficient our air defence is. No one will die not knowing what hit them.


Michael Corleone said:


> Yeah. Thailand



Don't be surprised if he changes tune (for the thousandth time) one day and writes "why Bangladesh and Thailand should cooperate on Gripens" and why everyone in favour of other fighters are idiots (and block a few people in the process).
And of course he would add why Thailand 
should play second fiddle to follow superpower Bangladesh in "punishing Burma" on two fronts.


Michael Corleone said:


> We used to. Then we stopped.
> Fun fact: RAF included Bangladesh syllabus model when we used to train with them


RAF was forced to cease such cooperation with BAF under pressure as FedEx, DHL and Uber were demanding the same privileges.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> That way the boro baper polas of puran Dhaka would also know how deficient our air defence is. No one will die not knowing what hit them.
> 
> Don't be surprised if he changes tune (for the thousandth time) one day and writes "why Bangladesh and Thailand should cooperate on Gripens" and why everyone in favour of other fighters are idiots (and block a few people in the process).
> And of course he would add why Thailand
> should play second fiddle to follow superpower Bangladesh in "punishing Burma" on two fronts.
> 
> RAF was forced to cease such cooperation with BAF under pressure as FedEx, DHL and Uber were demanding the same privileges.


Bruh I got banned from defseca and he blocked me... what do I know better? 😂😭😭

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## Lord Of Gondor

> CAS laid a wreath at 'Shikha Anirban' (the eternal flame) & paid tributes to the braves of Bangladesh Armed Forces who made the supreme sacrifice during the Liberation War of 1971







Great images 







And thanks to the honour bestowed by BAF










> CAS was inducted in the 'Mirpur Hall of Fame' at Defence Services Command and Staff College, Bangladesh. He is a proud alumnus of DSCSC and attended the 18th Air Staff Course at Mirpur in 1997-98.


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## Michael Corleone

Man I have a gut feeling Hasina will buy tejas 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭

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## Lord Of Gondor

Michael Corleone said:


> Man I have a gut feeling Hasina will buy tejas 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭


Not too sure on that. Maybe close co operation on the C-130 Fleet/An-32 Fleet/Mi-17 Fleet?
BAF has focussed on the MiG-29s as the leading edge of the sword.
Any upgrades there can mean good co operation wrt systems/weapons/avionics considering the IAF was the first international customer of the MiG-29 and the Launch customer of the MiG-29K/KuB.


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## Michael Corleone

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Not too sure on that. Maybe close co operation on the C-130 Fleet/An-32 Fleet/Mi-17 Fleet?
> BAF has focussed on the MiG-29s as the leading edge of the sword.
> Any upgrades there can mean good co operation wrt systems/weapons/avionics considering the IAF was the first international customer of the MiG-29 and the Launch customer of the MiG-29K/KuB.


we aren't pondering on mig 29s anymore... would have got smt upgrades from india instead of bm from belarus if anything was to materialise...
i just hope we don't get tejas... rather have an airforce without aircrafts than tejas airforce

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## Lord Of Gondor

Michael Corleone said:


> i just hope we don't get tejas... rather have an airforce without aircrafts than tejas airforce


Yes, mutually agreed.

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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Man I have a gut feeling Hasina will buy tejas 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭







Lord Of Gondor said:


> Not too sure on that. Maybe close co operation on the C-130 Fleet/An-32 Fleet/Mi-17 Fleet?



We already have Marshall ADG, Ukraine and 216 MRO plant for them.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Man I have a gut feeling Hasina will buy tejas 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭


Keep an eye out for India's medium MRCA competition. LM has already proposed to manufacture F-16/21 in India. If this materialises, both the US and India might lobby hard for BAF to get Indian made F-16s.

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Man I have a gut feeling Hasina will buy tejas 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭



Indians are desperate for a customer for Tejas and they want to force it down Bangladesh's 
throat. With Hasina in power they might actually get their first order.


Destranator said:


> Keep an eye out for India's medium MRCA competition. LM has already proposed to manufacture F-16/21 in India. If this materialises, both the US and India might lobby hard for BAF to get Indian made F-16s.



India has rejected the F16/F21's.

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## Destranator

alphapak said:


> India has rejected the F16/F21's.



They have not ordered medium MRCAs yet. 
F-16 still has a chance. I don't see many other contenders.


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## mb444

Hilarious this indian geeza is more rotund than our guy.... they need to lay off the biriyanies...


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## Destranator

Lord Of Gondor said:


> Not too sure on that. Maybe close co operation on the C-130 Fleet/An-32 Fleet/Mi-17 Fleet?
> BAF has focussed on the MiG-29s as the leading edge of the sword.
> Any upgrades there can mean good co operation wrt systems/weapons/avionics considering the IAF was the first international customer of the MiG-29 and the Launch customer of the MiG-29K/KuB.


Look all these would have been common sense had India been a reliable partner. While Bangladesh and India are not enemies, we are not friends either thanks to your government.

Bangladesh gets short changed by India at every opportunity be it in trade, watersharing, etc..
There is constant demonising of Bangladesh by Indian politicians under false pretexts of mass illegal migration and terrorism.

While ordinary Indians in general may not be anti-Bangladesh, as a country India cannot be relied upon thanks to your government.

This is why supply and maintenance of critical military systems are kept off limits from India even by India-friendly governments here.

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## alphapak

Destranator said:


> They have not ordered medium MRCAs yet.
> F-16 still has a chance. I don't see many other contenders.



They will most likely order more Rafales.


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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> Indians are desperate for a customer for Tejas and they want to force it down Bangladesh's
> throat. With Hasina in power they might actually get their first order.
> 
> 
> India has rejected the F16/F21's.


If you pray, please pray that we don’t have money to buy tejas. Rather have no Air Force 
I’ll pray during Ramadan 😂

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> If you pray, please pray that we don’t have money to buy tejas. Rather have no Air Force
> I’ll pray during Ramadan 😂



I just hope BAF go for the Gripens but the way Bangladesh Gov is run I won't be surprised if they
buy the Tejas. Indians are desperate to sell these because Pak has already sold Jf17's to 2 
countries and 3 are lining up to place orders.

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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> I just hope BAF go for the Gripens but the way Bangladesh Gov is run I won't be surprised if they
> buy the Tejas. Indians are desperate to sell these because Pak has already sold Jf17's to 2
> countries and 3 are lining up to place orders.


No one will buy tejas if they aren’t buying it themselves. And with 3-7 airframe production in a year overall... good luck selling anything.

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> No one will buy tejas if they aren’t buying it themselves. And with 3-7 airframe production in a year overall... good luck selling anything.



Indians started this program 10 years before the JF17 but still they are struggling, they have
spent a lot of money on this program and they want to make some back through Bangladesh.


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## Destranator

alphapak said:


> I just hope BAF go for the Gripens but the way Bangladesh Gov is run I won't be surprised if they
> buy the Tejas. Indians are desperate to sell these because Pak has already sold Jf17's to 2
> countries and 3 are lining up to place orders.


There is no Indian military hardware in service in Bangladesh despite significant increase in military procurement by BAL. BAL has been in charge for 12 years now.
It would be very weird and unusual to start with fighter jets.

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## UKBengali

Guys, we know that there are no real evaluation for fighter jets going on by BAF currently and so it will take a minimum of 18-24 months before any contract is announced as these things take time to happen.

There is no real urgency from BAL to protect the country properly and just blaming BAF is not good enough.

Hasina is bright enough to know that the country cannot fight even Myanmar as the BAF will have told her its fighters cannot take on the MAF and so she could have done something about it by now if she wanted to. She has the power to change the top-brass of BAF if she is not happy with their performance.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> They have not ordered medium MRCAs yet.
> F-16 still has a chance. I don't see many other contenders.


I wouldn’t mind if Bangladesh decides to buy the factory for f21 production... airframe is drastically different


UKBengali said:


> Guys, we know that there are no real evaluation for fighter jets going on by BAF currently and so it will take a minimum of 18-24 months before any contract is announced as these things take time to happen.
> 
> There is no real urgency from BAL to protect the country properly and just blaming BAF is not good enough.
> 
> Hasina is bright enough to know that the country cannot fight even Myanmar as the BAF will have told her its fighters cannot take on the MAF and so she could have done something about it by now if she wanted to. She has the power to change the top-brass of BAF if she is not happy with their performance.


Bruh she was telling them to spend less beginning of the year... like wtf


----------



## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Bruh she was telling them to spend less beginning of the year... like wtf




Goes to show how people's priorities can change with time.

She was in charge when BAF requested 27 F-16s from USA back in the late 1990s, and when the USA refused she went to Russia and put in an order for 16 Mig-29s with options for 16 more.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Goes to show how people's priorities can change with time.
> 
> She was in charge when BAF requested 27 F-16s from USA back in the late 1990s, and when the USA refused she went to Russia and put in an order for 16 Mig-29s with options for 16 more.





UKBengali said:


> Guys, we know that there are no real evaluation for fighter jets going on by BAF currently and so it will take a minimum of 18-24 months before any contract is announced as these things take time to happen.
> 
> There is no real urgency from BAL to protect the country properly and just blaming BAF is not good enough.
> 
> Hasina is bright enough to know that the country cannot fight even Myanmar as the BAF will have told her its fighters cannot take on the MAF and so she could have done something about it by now if she wanted to. She has the power to change the top-brass of BAF if she is not happy with their performance.




Tragically your logic is flawless.....


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> I wouldn’t mind if Bangladesh decides to buy the factory for f21 production... airframe is drastically different


Why would LM set up production in BD for fokirni amounts of sales?

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Goes to show how people's priorities can change with time.
> 
> She was in charge when BAF requested 27 F-16s from USA back in the late 1990s, and when the USA refused she went to Russia and put in an order for 16 Mig-29s with options for 16 more.


That is the thing. It is not like Hasina is inherently against fighter jets.

Honestly, instead of pipe dreaming about fully manufacturing aircraft, BAF should buy any aircraft that will come with assembly and spares manufacture.
ToT is a great way to kick start an aerospace industry as the supplier basically spoonfeeds you all the techniques and processes.

We have discussed Gripen with ToT to death.

J-10C with ToT also needs to be explored by BAF as China is ramping up J-20 production.


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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> If you pray, please pray that we don’t have money to buy tejas. Rather have no Air Force
> I’ll pray during Ramadan 😂


I will be happy if BD buys tejas. As long as india provides BD The cash to purchase and maintain the tejas with. 

1 squadron of tejas will give BD pilots an excellent opurtunity to get a feel and learn about the future indian frontline plane. 

Also if BD buys tejas, i am sure the chinese would love to have a look at the aircraft.

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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> I will be happy if BD buys tejas. As long as india provides BD The cash to purchase and maintain the tejas with.
> 
> 1 squadron of tejas will give BD pilots an excellent opurtunity to get a feel and learn about the future indian frontline plane.
> 
> Also if BD buys tejas, i am sure the chinese would love to have a look at the aircraft.



I would not mind that if India was not a threat to Bangladesh. Sadly it is.


----------



## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Why would LM set up production in BD for fokirni amounts of sales?


It could later sell to pk, Philippines etc. us is already conducting study of sales to potential customers


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> It could later sell to pk, Philippines etc. us is already conducting study of sales to potential customers


Sure but still makes no sense to shift production to a country that won't be buying many.
BD would buy 4 squadrons max (absolute best case scenario).
Besides, BD hob-knobs a lot with the Chinese and the Russians. Absolute no-go zone for critical US tech like fighter production facility.


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## ghost250

https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/weapon-system-of-choice?fbclid=IwAR3Spg19uKC_mby-VlciTRFGB42fo6lZrSKzaO9f9SWBp_L20glNlqXqkf0

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 720241
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/weapon-system-of-choice?fbclid=IwAR3Spg19uKC_mby-VlciTRFGB42fo6lZrSKzaO9f9SWBp_L20glNlqXqkf0


Lol just wait for defseca to milk this until the cow has menopause 😂😂😂

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## Jobless Jack

Destranator said:


> I would not mind that if India was not a threat to Bangladesh. Sadly it is.


I made my comment preciesly because india is a threat .


----------



## Destranator

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 720241
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/weapon-system-of-choice?fbclid=IwAR3Spg19uKC_mby-VlciTRFGB42fo6lZrSKzaO9f9SWBp_L20glNlqXqkf0





Michael Corleone said:


> Lol just wait for defseca to milk this until the cow has menopause 😂😂😂


Not good enough. BAF has a policy of keeping fighters up to 2 generations obsolete in service at any given time (F-7MBs at present).
I do not think 6.5 generation fighters will be mainstream by 2060. Leonardo is failing to live up to BAF's standards.

On a serious note:
Leonardo is quite serious about selling their products in Bangladesh which is why they are one of very few major Western military suppliers to set up shop in Bangladesh. However, as per existing regulations, they still need to use local agents enlisted with DGDP to be able to sell stuff.

I need to find out who the DGDP-enlisted local agents of Leonardo are. The quality of connections of these agents to BAL will determine the prospects of EFT.
Hint: The agents most likely do not sell Thai t-shirts online as a side gig.

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## Avicenna

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 720241
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/weapon-system-of-choice?fbclid=IwAR3Spg19uKC_mby-VlciTRFGB42fo6lZrSKzaO9f9SWBp_L20glNlqXqkf0



Good find.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1201584423592762







UKBengali said:


> Guys, we know that there are no real evaluation for fighter jets going on by BAF currently



But But But "DEEPTHROATS" are saying otherwise.


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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> I need to find out who the DGDP-enlisted local agents of Leonardo are


Bashundhara group ? I'm not sure...just saying


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## Destranator

Destranator said:


> *BAF has been a spineless organisation since Zia sent airmen en masse to** Forces Gaol 1977.*
> 
> BAF needs administrators installed from BA and BN to revamp its organisational culture; this will weed out most of the inefficiencies.



Now the below is a good post from DEFSECA on the origin of BAF's spinelessness (I am a fair person. I see good work, I give credit.) as I was discussing above. This will rub the BNP/Jamat shills the wrong way but it is the truth.

Zia overeacted in his response to the mutiny and destroyed BAF. BA was already a mess under his leadership.






__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/276622187230625

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Bashundhara group ? I'm not sure...just saying


They are a client of Leonardo.

I do not think Bashundhara is into supplying military equipment.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> They are a client of Leonardo.
> 
> I do not think Bashundhara is into supplying military equipment.


Does bashindhara own channel I? 
plenty of Leonardo helicopters


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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Now the below is a good post from DEFSECA on the origin of BAF's spinelessness (I am a fair person. I see good work, I give credit.) as I was discussing above. This will rub the BNP/Jamat shills the wrong way but it is the truth.
> 
> Zia overeacted in his response to the mutiny and destroyed BAF. BA was already a mess under his leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/276622187230625





This is far too much back to say BAF is still suffering from what Zia did.

Remember in the late 1990s BAF wanted 27 F-16s and then when USA refused it ordered 16 Mig-29s and options for 16 more.

This is little to do with BAF but BAL's priorities since it came into power in 2009. If you want to see why BAF is useless, look at the AL government and not the BAF leadership.


----------



## mb444

Destranator said:


> Now the below is a good post from DEFSECA on the origin of BAF's spinelessness (I am a fair person. I see good work, I give credit.) as I was discussing above. This will rub the BNP/Jamat shills the wrong way but it is the truth.
> 
> Zia overeacted in his response to the mutiny and destroyed BAF. BA was already a mess under his leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/276622187230625


Nah can not agree.... spinelessness did not come from that.... what about the army....they mutinied more and many faced similar fate.

This was too long ago for the impact to remain.

As the other forces professionalised these guys went backward and have let the team down. An airforce of a maritime country very rarely call the shots as they are usually the smallest contingent.... but a skilful leader would navigate the pitfalls and make the case for a strong airforce.

BAF has failed completely and it is its managements fault. Have they been politically sidelined...probably. politicans are also to blame for its current state but for me the stark differences are too great. BD bought 16 F7 BGI for mere $116m .... why not buy more? Why not take up the chinese offer of relocating F7 plant to bd. Why prepare a tender focusing on russians and then fail to conclude the purchase. There is no justification blaming the russians, if the whole thing was so open why prepare a tender that excluded others? After that debacle why buy Yaks?

Failure compounded by failure... look at navy, cost guard, army, BGB, they are making steady progress and doing so sometimes with less money than the airforce... it lacks imagination.... its not about money....if we can not afford jets why is it not developing drone capabilities, why is it not developing surface to air missile capabilities to keep our skies safe?

Bottom line the failure is too deep and long. Give BAF benefit of doubt would be to do them a great disservice. Tough love is the order of the day i am afraid.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> This is far too much back to say BAF is still suffering from what Zia did.
> 
> Remember in the late 1990s BAF wanted 27 F-16s and then when USA refused it ordered 16 Mig-29s and options for 16 more.
> 
> This is little to do with BAF but BAL's priorities since it came into power in 2009. If you want to see why BAF is useless, look at the AL government and not the BAF leadership.



The incident destroyed the organisational culture. The damage still persists.
BAF has lost its ability to negotiate with bureaucrats.

Despite approval in principle by the cabinet, there are many bureaucratic hurdles (MoD, MoF, etc..) the military has to go through in procuring big ticket items which requires a lot of persistence.
There are things like options analysis, financial feasibility, etc. that require sign off by senior bureaucrats.
Unlike BA and BN, BAF is too weak and pathetic to clear the hurdles despite "desiring" various things at different times like F-16s in the 90's (Not getting F-16s was no their fault on that occasion, however)


While the PM is willing to spend the money, she will not spoonfeed BAF through the steps as fighter jets are not at the top of het agenda for obvious reasons.

Ultimately, however the PM/BAL is responsible for not reforming BAF the organisation.


mb444 said:


> Nah can not agree.... spinelessness did not come from that.... what about the army....they mutinied more and many faced similar fate.
> 
> This was too long ago for the impact to remain.
> 
> As the other forces professionalised these guys went backward and have let the team down. An airforce of a maritime country very rarely call the shots as they are usually the smallest contingent.... but a skilful leader would navigate the pitfalls and make the case for a strong airforce.
> 
> BAF has failed completely and it is its managements fault. Have they been politically sidelined...probably. politicans are also to blame for its current state but for me the stark differences are too great. BD bought 16 F7 BGI for mere $116m .... why not buy more? Why not take up the chinese offer of relocating F7 plant to bd. Why prepare a tender focusing on russians and then fail to conclude the purchase. There is no justification blaming the russians, if the whole thing was so open why prepare a tender that excluded others? After that debacle why buy Yaks?
> 
> Failure compounded by failure... look at navy, cost guard, army, BGB, they are making steady progress and doing so sometimes with less money than the airforce... it lacks imagination.... its not about money....if we can not afford jets why is it not developing drone capabilities, why is it not developing surface to air missile capabilities to keep our skies safe?
> 
> Bottom line the failure is too deep and long. Give BAF benefit of doubt would be to do them a great disservice. Tough love is the order of the day i am afraid.


For the blue bit, see my reply above to UKBengali.

I fully agree with the rest.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> This is far too much back to say BAF is still suffering from what Zia did.
> 
> Remember in the late 1990s BAF wanted 27 F-16s and then when USA refused it ordered 16 Mig-29s and options for 16 more.
> 
> This is little to do with BAF but BAL's priorities since it came into power in 2009. If you want to see why BAF is useless, look at the AL government and not the BAF leadership.


Bruh BNP basically handicapped the airforce. Now there’s a maximum of around 35 pilots every year and this is a mixture of all sorts of aircraft
Not nearly enough to expand... just replacing the retirees every year
But yes, 15 years is enough to get a decent amount of squadron inducted

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Bruh BNP basically handicapped the airforce. Now there’s a maximum of around 35 pilots every year and this is a mixture of all sorts of aircraft
> Not nearly enough to expand... just replacing the retirees every year
> But yes, 15 years is enough to get a decent amount of squadron inducted




BAL has been in power for 12 years now

It is time to stop blaming BNP, Zia etc and look at who has been power for over a decade and the airspace of BD is completely undefended at this time. They are so useless they have not even inducted a single battery of MRSAM.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> BAL has been in power for 12 years now
> 
> It is time to stop blaming BNP, Zia etc and look at who has been power for over a decade and the airspace of BD is completely undefended at this time. They are so useless they have not even inducted a single battery of MRSAM.


Bro 4 billion is just not enough we have to accept this. Minimum 2% should be spent on defense

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Bro 4 billion is just not enough we have to accept this. Minimum 2% should be spent on defense





A battery of LY-60 medium-range SAM costs 80 million US dollars. The yearly defence budget is 4,100 million US dollars

We can make all the excuses for AL but at the end of the day they are not meeting the minimum defence needs of BD.

Forget India, BD will be bombed mercilessly by MAF and the country economically and militarily crippled by a much smaller country in 2-3 weeks. BN and BAF would be totally annihilated by MAF airpower. Only BA would be left somewhat intact.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Does bashindhara own channel I?
> plenty of Leonardo helicopters


No they don't.


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## Indos

Myanmar spent like crazy started from 1990 until 2009


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> A battery of LY-60 medium-range SAM costs 80 million US dollars. The yearly defence budget is 4,000 million US dollars
> 
> We can make all the excuses for AL but at the end of the day they are not meeting the minimum defence needs of BD.
> 
> Forget India, BD will be bombed mercilessly by MAF and the country economically and militarily crippled by a much smaller country in 2-3 weeks. BN and BAF would be totally annihilated by MAF airpower. Only BA would be left somewhat intact.


You are correct in that BAL is ultimately responsible for the deficiencies in defence as they had enough time to sort BAF.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> A battery of LY-60 medium-range SAM costs 80 million US dollars. The yearly defence budget is 4,000 million US dollars
> 
> We can make all the excuses for AL but at the end of the day they are not meeting the minimum defence needs of BD.
> 
> Forget India, BD will be bombed mercilessly by MAF and the country economically and militarily crippled by a much smaller country in 2-3 weeks. BN and BAF would be totally annihilated by MAF airpower. Only BA would be left somewhat intact.


Like I said, that’s exactly what’s needed for us to wake up.


Indos said:


> Myanmar spent like crazy started from 1990 until 2009


Damn didn’t knew they reduced it down to 2 billion


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## F-6 enthusiast

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 720241
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/weapon-system-of-choice?fbclid=IwAR3Spg19uKC_mby-VlciTRFGB42fo6lZrSKzaO9f9SWBp_L20glNlqXqkf0


I would assume that we would have to induct western trainers before introducing any fighters like typhoon.


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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I would assume that we would have to induct western trainers before introducing any fighters like typhoon.


Nope. Yak-130 is sufficient.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Nope. Yak-130 is sufficient.


The airframe of Yak-130 is similar to M-346 , so it could have similar flight characteristics. 
I don't really know whether Leonardo would make any modifications to the software/ fly-by-wire for us.


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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> The airframe of Yak-130 is similar to M-346 , so it could have similar flight characteristics.
> I don't really know whether Leonardo would make any modifications to the software/ fly-by-wire for us.



Yak-130 is programmable to simulate Western aircraft. Even if Yak-130s cannot be programmed for EFT for some reason, the pilots would have to undergo operational conversion on dual seat EFTs anyway.

An AJT qualified pilot should not have much trouble converting to EFT.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Yak-130 is programmable to simulate Western aircraft. Even if Yak-130s cannot be programmed for EFT for some reason, the pilots would have to undergo operational conversion on dual seat EFTs anyway.
> 
> An AJT qualified pilot should not have much trouble converting to EFT.


I just hope we don’t get dual seats 
Instead it’s better to swap out yak electronics for the Italian variety if necessary

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> I just hope we don’t get dual seats
> Instead it’s better to swap out yak electronics for the Italian variety if necessary


Not a good idea to jump straight to single seat EFTs after AJT. I doubt that is even allowed anywhere for EFTs.


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## Nomad40

BAF does not need Gripen, Rafael or EFT.

IMO Bangladesh air force is being Delusional and following the footstep of India.....thinking that new Fighter is a necessity.

What the BAF needs to do is to stop getting into complex and have a proper threat assessment and consultation done. 

There are a couple of political factors as well but not getting into that, BAF is better of with fighter trainers and there are plenty proven safe and robust options.

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## mb444

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> BAF does not need Gripen, Rafael or EFT.
> 
> IMO Bangladesh air force is being Delusional and following the footstep of India.....thinking that new Fighter is a necessity.
> 
> What the BAF needs to do is to stop getting into complex and have a proper threat assessment and consultation done.
> 
> There are a couple of political factors as well but not getting into that, BAF is better of with fighter trainers and there are plenty proven safe and robust options.



I agree with you regarding threat assessment is the need of the hour. Perhaps it has been done and BAF has concluded we do not need an effective air force. If that is the case they should vocalise it. Perhaps BDs sovereignty is best maintained through economic prosperity and tight embrace of the global economy. It has worked for germany and Japan post WW2.

But I disagree that we do not need fighters in numbers. Our region is unpredictable and we are surrounded by dysfunctional fascist hedgemonistic states. We need a stong defense to guarantee our position.

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> I agree with you regarding threat assessment is the need of the hour. Perhaps it has been done and BAF has concluded we do not need an effective air force. If that is the case they should vocalise it. Perhaps BDs sovereignty is best maintained through economic prosperity and tight embrace of the global economy. It has worked for germany and Japan post WW2.
> 
> But I disagree that we do not need fighters in numbers. Our region is unpredictable and we are surrounded by dysfunctional fascist hedgemonistic states. We need a stong defense to guarantee our position.


we need something that doesn't break the bank, has high sortie rates (to make up for any quantitative advantage of the opponent). 
Two possible candidates stand out 
1. J-10CE 
2. Gripen 

We could field the J-10 in numbers and as a back up from western sanctions (Human rights etc) and have MRO facilities.
The gripen is a no-brainer (BAF wasting time evaluating other western stuff),
Gripen could be used for maritime strike. And J-10C could be tasked with interception and QRA duties. 

Only issue I see is the limited range of both aircraft, do we really need double engine ''deep strike'' fighter though?

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## Nomad40

mb444 said:


> I agree with you regarding threat assessment is the need of the hour. Perhaps it has been done and BAF has concluded we do not need an effective air force. If that is the case they should vocalise it. Perhaps BDs sovereignty is best maintained through economic prosperity and tight embrace of the global economy. It has worked for germany and Japan post WW2.
> 
> But I disagree that we do not need fighters in numbers. Our region is unpredictable and we are surrounded by dysfunctional fascist hedgemonistic states. We need a stong defense to guarantee our position.


The numbers is understandable but for a BAF to eye ball something like the EFT or likewise makes no sense what so ever. 

This is lousiness on their part and just goes to show the type of leadership.

If BAF gets decent squadron numbers of fighter trainers and they know how to operationally interconnect and deploy those aircraft then they should do better than most countries.

The attitude of the countries leadership and inconsistent statements will take BAF no where but down the gutter. 

If Bangladesh is serious about its Air force then honestly the L-159Alca and a hand full of Mig-29K or Mig-35 should do you the job. 

Both of the Aircraft are nothing new for BAF and extensive training is not a factor.

BAF should primarily be a fighter trainer air force with a hand full of adv Migs for BVR....anything else is needle in a haystack. 


BAF has to maintain is fleets of yaks better then they are!

The future BAF should look something like this;

30 ......... Yak 130 (advanced trainer, CAS and Point defense)

50 ......... L-159E ( CAS, Precision strike and CAP)

25 ......... Mig-29k/35 

Upgrade the 8 Mig-29 to K standards.

Keep hand full of F-7BGIs running till they can.


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## mb444

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> The numbers is understandable but for a BAF to eye ball something like the EFT or likewise makes no sense what so ever.
> 
> This is lousiness on their part and just goes to show the type of leadership.
> 
> If BAF gets decent squadron numbers of fighter trainers and they know how to operationally interconnect and deploy those aircraft then they should do better than most countries.
> 
> The attitude of the countries leadership and inconsistent statements will take BAF no where but down the gutter.
> 
> If Bangladesh is serious about its Air force then honestly the L-159Alca and a hand full of Mig-29K or Mig-35 should do you the job.
> 
> Both of the Aircraft are nothing new for BAF and extensive training is not a factor.
> 
> BAF should primarily be a fighter trainer air force with a hand full of adv Migs for BVR....anything else is needle in a haystack.
> 
> 
> BAF has to maintain is fleets of yaks better then they are!
> 
> The future BAF should look something like this;
> 
> 30 ......... Yak 130 (advanced trainer, CAS and Point defense)
> 
> 50 ......... L-159E ( CAS, Precision strike and CAP)
> 
> 25 ......... Mig-29k/35
> 
> Upgrade the 8 Mig-29 to K standards.
> 
> Keep hand full of F-7BGIs running till they can.




BAF needs to give BN and BA a fighting chance and withstand a couple of weeks of onslaught from india.

The inventory above wont do do that. However couple of sqd of F16/EFT/gripen with appropriate BVR capable missiles alongside a sizeable surface to air missiles will.

At the moment our existing assets can not get near raffles to do anything.

It is not about quantity we have small air space to defend but rather quality. 

BAF can protect the nation, it just needs vision. BD wont face entire indian military as they can not ever really let their border against pakistan and china go undefended.

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## Destranator

Russian birds are fantastic on paper but struggle with availability. Russian after sales support is notoriously unreliable.

EFTs are fantastic but not without overall numbers.

BAF should fully focus on getting Gripens and/or J-10Cs in numbers along with whatever ToT is available and AEW&C.

After that if they still find money to spare they can consider 1-2 sqd EFTs.


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## Nomad40

mb444 said:


> BAF needs to give BN and BA a fighting chance and withstand a couple of weeks of onslaught from india.
> 
> The inventory above wont do do that. However couple of sqd of F16/EFT/gripen with appropriate BVR capable missiles alongside a sizeable surface to air missiles will.
> 
> At the moment our existing assets can not get near raffles to do anything.
> 
> It is not about quantity we have small air space to defend but rather quality.
> 
> BAF can protect the nation, it just needs vision. BD wont face entire indian military as they can not ever really let their border against pakistan and china go undefended.


India was never Banglas enemy!

The above is more than enough to support any sort of midsize army especially the L-159.

BAF has 230 planes even for its size.

The above is safe estimation of keeping 50% serviceable.


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## Destranator

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> India was never Banglas enemy!
> 
> The above is more than enough to support any sort of midsize army especially the L-159.
> 
> BAF has 230 planes even for its size.
> 
> The above is safe estimation of keeping 50% serviceable.


India may not be an outright enemy but they are a threat.

You need consider what sort of aircraft BAF would be facing. IAF would be flying network connected Rafales, Su-30MKIs, MiG-29UPGs and perhaps F-16 Vipers in the future.

Burma would be flying Su-30SMEs, MiG-29SMTs and JF-17 Block II's, perhaps network connected in the future.

At a bare minimum, BAF needs 4 squadrons of network connected (TDL with AEW&C aircraft and Bangabandhu Satellite 1) Gripens/J-10s/EFTs for minimum deterrence against both.

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## Nomad40

Destranator said:


> India may not be an outright enemy but they are a threat.
> 
> You need consider what sort of aircraft BAF would be facing. IAF would be flying network connected Rafales, Su-30MKIs, MiG-29UPGs and perhaps F-16 Vipers in the future.
> 
> Burma would be flying Su-30SMEs, MiG-29SMTs and JF-17 Block II's, perhaps network connected in the future.
> 
> At a bare minimum, BAF needs 4 squadrons of network connected (TDL with AEW&C aircraft and Bangabandhu Satellite 1) Gripens/J-10s/EFTs for minimum deterrence against both.


Strong Sam system


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## Destranator

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> Strong Sam system


Surely MR and LR SAMs should be part of the equation but you also need airborne defence.


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## Nomad40

Destranator said:


> Surely MR and LR SAMs should be part of the equation but you also need airborne defence.


Mig-29k/35.

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## Incog_nito

BAF should diversify its fleet instead of making them dependent on the Chinese and Russians.

They should acquire aircraft and make their Air Force top-class in the region.

30-50 MiG-29s, upgrade them to MiG-35 standards. MiG-29s can be acquired from Russia or any ex-operators. These can be deployed in the Southern regions for Maritime security.
40-50 J-10C/D from China to boost security over its Western Border with India.
40-50 F-16s C/D from the ex-USAF fleet and upgrade them to MLU-4/5 standards.
This will make them counter any issue in the region.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> I agree with you regarding threat assessment is the need of the hour. Perhaps it has been done and BAF has concluded we do not need an effective air force. If that is the case they should vocalise it. Perhaps BDs sovereignty is best maintained through economic prosperity and tight embrace of the global economy. It has worked for germany and Japan post WW2.
> 
> But I disagree that we do not need fighters in numbers. Our region is unpredictable and we are surrounded by dysfunctional fascist hedgemonistic states. We need a stong defense to guarantee our position.




Really as regards Germany and Japan?

One is part of Nato and the other has US protection. Not to mention that they both had robust militaries, including powerful airforces.


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## Michael Corleone

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> BAF does not need Gripen, Rafael or EFT.
> 
> IMO Bangladesh air force is being Delusional and following the footstep of India.....thinking that new Fighter is a necessity.
> 
> What the BAF needs to do is to stop getting into complex and have a proper threat assessment and consultation done.
> 
> There are a couple of political factors as well but not getting into that, BAF is better of with fighter trainers and there are plenty proven safe and robust options.


Bruh if we follow what you’re proposing then nothing is a threat in bd. Burmese do 17 airspace violations in a day, we don’t scramble one single fighter 😂

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> BAF needs to give BN and BA a fighting chance and withstand a couple of weeks of onslaught from india


Keyword: chance
I could argue the opposite. If the army isn’t hogging the budget allocation every fucking year and gets to dictate how much the other two receives then expect no improvement. 
let BA get bombed in the meat grinders... then they’ll understand

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## Nomad40

Michael Corleone said:


> Bruh if we follow what you’re proposing then nothing is a threat in bd. Burmese do 17 airspace violations in a day, we don’t scramble one single fighter 😂


What do the Burmese use to violate your air space and where does the violation happen from.


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## Michael Corleone

Mirage Battle Commander said:


> What do the Burmese use to violate your air space and where does the violation happen from.


They used mig 29 and helicopters 
Mig violation led to scrambling from Dhaka but too late...


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## Nomad40

Michael Corleone said:


> They used mig 29 and helicopters
> Mig violation led to scrambling from Dhaka but too late...


Madness .............. If any thing there should be a proper squadron at Cox and Chitagong 

Look's like BAF has forgotten the ways of the PAF.

A proper SAM system to the East is a cost effective deterrence.

What I have said above 

30 ......... Yak 130 (advanced trainer, CAS and Point defense)

50 ......... L-159E ( CAS, Precision strike and CAP)

25 ......... Mig-29k/35 

Is a cost effective solution 

BGI and Mig29 stay at Dhaka.


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Keyword: chance
> I could argue the opposite. If the army isn’t hogging the budget allocation every fucking year and gets to dictate how much the other two receives then expect no improvement.
> let BA get bombed in the meat grinders... then they’ll understand




Inter-Services rivalries is always there. If BAF can not defend its corner in a friendly field of battle how are goin to stand against hostile foreign enemy?

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> They used mig 29 and helicopters
> Mig violation led to scrambling from Dhaka but too late...


There was no violation by fighter jet, only halo.


Michael Corleone said:


> Keyword: chance
> I could argue the opposite. If the army isn’t hogging the budget allocation every fucking year and gets to dictate how much the other two receives then expect no improvement.
> let BA get bombed in the meat grinders... then they’ll understand


Budget does not work that way. BAF faggots are cucks. AFD should be replaced with a proper Joint Chief's office which will dictate balance, integration and streamlining of the three forces. This office should also take over the R&D wings of the three forces for greater integration.
The three service chiefs would report into the Joint Chief of Staff. The office should also have one 3-star vice chief from each service and senior secretaries from PMO, MoD, MoP and MoF who would oversee interfaces.

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## F-6 enthusiast

F-6 enthusiast said:


> -10CE





Michael Corleone said:


> Keyword: chance
> I could argue the opposite. If the army isn’t hogging the budget allocation every fucking year and gets to dictate how much the other two receives then expect no improvement.
> let BA get bombed in the meat grinders... then they’ll understand


I thought the navy was getting the biggest share of the budget for procurement.


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I thought the navy was getting the biggest share of the budget for procurement.


Navy acquisition has stalled recently, beside the sub base construction which has been spoken for, I don’t see any progress on frigate construction nor the shipyard expansion necessary


Destranator said:


> There was no violation by fighter jet, only halo


Not when rohynga crisis happened


Destranator said:


> There was no violation by fighter jet, only halo.
> 
> Budget does not work that way. BAF faggots are cucks. AFD should be replaced with a proper Joint Chief's office which will dictate balance, integration and streamlining of the three forces. This office should also take over the R&D wings of the three forces for greater integration.
> The three service chiefs would report into the Joint Chief of Staff. The office should also have one 3-star vice chief from each service and senior secretaries from PMO, MoD, MoP and MoF who would oversee interfaces.


The best way is to go imperial Japanese route but with commonality in mind... divide up current fleet among navy and army, and plan on force multiplier with common aircraft types. Problem solved


mb444 said:


> Inter-Services rivalries is always there. If BAF can not defend its corner in a friendly field of battle how are goin to stand against hostile foreign enemy?


One cannot simply **** up like this and not have to answer to a hearing...
BAF incompetence is a mixture of everything... politics, bureaucracy, budget, inter force rivalry and last but not the least, incompetent officers who most likely get in because their fathers or grandfather have been in the armed forces...
Sets them up pretty well for a career in airline business. Young pilots are quitting because commercial pays better 
Need not say more

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Navy acquisition has stalled recently, beside the sub base construction which has been spoken for, I don’t see any progress on frigate construction nor the shipyard expansion necessary
> 
> Not when rohynga crisis happened
> 
> The best way is to go imperial Japanese route but with commonality in mind... divide up current fleet among navy and army, and plan on force multiplier with common aircraft types. Problem solved
> 
> One cannot simply **** up like this and not have to answer to a hearing...
> BAF incompetence is a mixture of everything... politics, bureaucracy, budget, inter force rivalry and last but not the least, incompetent officers who most likely get in because their fathers or grandfather have been in the armed forces...
> Sets them up pretty well for a career in airline business. Young pilots are quitting because commercial pays better
> Need not say more



Bruh it's 2021 and BAF still has no dam new fighters nor the Navy has any new frigates or subs to truly defend Bangladesh. 

How long will it take for BAF to realize you gotta buy something , cause even the Air Force Chief knows how fked the BAF really is. 


If Myanmar and India can buy some dam fighters already , why the heck is it taking BAF this long to induct new 4th gen fighters ? Corruption is every where but THIS..this is beyond corruption


I just wish Myanmar would pull a Pearl Harbor on us


F-6 enthusiast said:


> I thought the navy was getting the biggest share of the budget for procurement.



Navy gets something , but yeah as Michael said we haven't found a partner to make our next gen frigates with and only god knows when we will get the subs. Let alone future ships like LHDs or LPDs

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Bruh it's 2021 and BAF still has no dam new fighters nor the Navy has any new frigates or subs to truly defend Bangladesh.
> 
> How long will it take for BAF to realize you gotta buy something , cause even the Air Force Chief knows how fked the BAF really is.
> 
> 
> If Myanmar and India can buy some dam fighters already , why the heck is it taking BAF this long to induct new 4th gen fighters ? Corruption is every where but THIS..this is beyond corruption
> 
> 
> I just wish Myanmar would pull a Pearl Harbor on us
> 
> 
> Navy gets something , but yeah as Michael said we haven't found a partner to make our next gen frigates with and only god knows when we will get the subs. Let alone future ships like LHDs or LPDs


This is exactly what Pakistanis ridiculed bengalis for in the military, indecisiveness 
We make exceptional soldiers but allow room for contemplation and we have a incompetent armed forces

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> This is exactly what Pakistanis ridiculed bengalis for in the military, indecisiveness
> We make exceptional soldiers but allow room for contemplation and we have a incompetent armed forces



True , these fools in the government act like we live in la la land and everything is peaceful. When will they realize that Bangladesh has enemy's on both sides.


We must build a strong Air Force first to assert air dominance , I don't want Bangladesh to be Iraq during Desert Storm I want Bangladesh to be North Vietnam who somewhat had air dominance.

Second we need a dam strong navy , 6 Frigates ain't sHit we need 10-12 next gen Frigates along with 2 or 3 Destroyers/Or Destroyer mixed with a Frigate and then we need 8-12 modern quiet diesel electric subs something like Song class Sub or Swedish Gotland. 

Third we need a LHD , if we want to really defend our interests and protect St Martins we should be able to deploy troops immediately via through LHDs. 

Fourth of course we should be able to make most of our equipment ourselves , from cruise missiles to radars. 

Bangladesh's economy is growing and so is it's major infrastructure , Myanmar aka an unstable nation anytime can pose a threat to us cause they don't care about sanctions.

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## SpaceMan18

Any thoughts ?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Found this video, seems well researched than the Clown DUB or defseca

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## The Ronin

F-7 BG is firing it's 30mm cannon during WINTEX-2021.

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> True , these fools in the government act like we live in la la land and everything is peaceful. When will they realize that Bangladesh has enemy's on both sides.
> 
> 
> We must build a strong Air Force first to assert air dominance , I don't want Bangladesh to be Iraq during Desert Storm I want Bangladesh to be North Vietnam who somewhat had air dominance.
> 
> Second we need a dam strong navy , 6 Frigates ain't sHit we need 10-12 next gen Frigates along with 2 or 3 Destroyers/Or Destroyer mixed with a Frigate and then we need 8-12 modern quiet diesel electric subs something like Song class Sub or Swedish Gotland.
> 
> Third we need a LHD , if we want to really defend our interests and protect St Martins we should be able to deploy troops immediately via through LHDs.
> 
> Fourth of course we should be able to make most of our equipment ourselves , from cruise missiles to radars.
> 
> Bangladesh's economy is growing and so is it's major infrastructure , Myanmar aka an unstable nation anytime can pose a threat to us cause they don't care about sanctions.


North Vietnam had formidable air defence. If anything the best on the world at that time. They saturated the country with AA guns. 
well we have a couple of oerlikon radar controlled guns, expect these couple to protect whole of bd for years

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Any thoughts ?


Nothing to ponder on. The video is banking on the below:
https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/weapon-system-of-choice

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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> F-7 BG is firing it's 30mm cannon during WINTEX-2021.
> 
> View attachment 721705
> 
> 
> View attachment 721706




These soldiers at the bottom , is Bangladesh trying to make a Bangladeshi version of the British SAS ? I saw that they're trained in America , also idk why they're using AKs when they can be using M4s


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## bdslph

SpaceMan18 said:


> Any thoughts ?



its just written in the website / magazine we are into EF2000 . until as such we have signed MOU and or Publicly inform we are getting it better keep it in doubts... it aint going to be cheap

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## F-6 enthusiast

bdslph said:


> its just written in the website / magazine we are into EF2000 . until as such we have signed MOU and or Publicly inform we are getting it better keep it in doubts... it aint going to be cheap


Qatar paid £6 billion for 24 typhoons in 2017. (That's almost 7.3 billion USD in 2017 ). Yes they are a gulf state so they probably went full spec and the money includes training ,armaments packages and infrastructure. I just think it might be too expensive to maintain (twin engine fighters) and acquire with current economy.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Qatar paid £6 billion for 24 typhoons in 2017. (That's almost 7.3 billion USD in 2017 ). Yes they are a gulf state so they probably went full spec and the money includes training ,armaments packages and infrastructure. I just think it might be too expensive to maintain (twin engine fighters) and acquire with current economy.



Except we aren't buying 24 but 12 , but yeah it's too expensive and also Gripens were a better choice but as usual J-10s are also a great choice but again they are F-7 replacements


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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> Except we aren't buying 24 but 12 , but yeah it's too expensive and also Gripens were a better choice but as usual J-10s are also a great choice but again they are F-7 replacements




We're acquiring 16 MRCA in the first batch.

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We're acquiring 16 MRCA in the first batch.



If we do , it'll probably be 16 EFT and no other jets lol


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> If we do , it'll probably be 16 EFT and no other jets lol


You won’t believe how many cunts are there on Facebook who think the more trainers BAF buys, the stronger it gets

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> You won’t believe how many cunts are there on Facebook who think the more trainers BAF buys, the stronger it gets



Lmao , they're coping


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## Destranator

J-10s are a no-brainer for BAF from a cost, strings and adaptability perspective regardless of what Western jets they get. There is absolutely no excuse for not having at least a couple of J-10 squadrons in service by now given the gaping hole that exists in BAF's air power.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> J-10s are a no-brainer for BAF from a cost, strings and adaptability perspective regardless of what Western jets they get. There is absolutely no excuse for not having at least a couple of J-10 squadrons in service by now given the gaping hole in BAF's air power.



India : Now now Bangladesh you know not to say silly things like " buying J-10s" and " having an air force " cause you know daddy will be mad 


But seriously , get Aziz and let him control the BAF

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## The Ronin

According to EurAsian Times Wing Loong II has been exported to Bangladesh.









IDEX-2021: China Displays Its High-Tech Military Hardware At Abu Dhabi Expo: Watch


China has emerged as a major exhibitor at the ongoing IDEX-2021, the largest defense expo in the Middle East. The country has showcased aerial systems, armored vehicles, anti-tank missiles among a range of weapons at the event being held in Abu Dhabi. Why India Opted For Israeli Tank-Buster...




eurasiantimes.com

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> According to EurAsian Times Wing Loong II has been exported to Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDEX-2021: China Displays Its High-Tech Military Hardware At Abu Dhabi Expo: Watch
> 
> 
> China has emerged as a major exhibitor at the ongoing IDEX-2021, the largest defense expo in the Middle East. The country has showcased aerial systems, armored vehicles, anti-tank missiles among a range of weapons at the event being held in Abu Dhabi. Why India Opted For Israeli Tank-Buster...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eurasiantimes.com


How come they didn’t show it off then?

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## ghost250

The Ronin said:


> According to EurAsian Times Wing Loong II has been exported to Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDEX-2021: China Displays Its High-Tech Military Hardware At Abu Dhabi Expo: Watch
> 
> 
> China has emerged as a major exhibitor at the ongoing IDEX-2021, the largest defense expo in the Middle East. The country has showcased aerial systems, armored vehicles, anti-tank missiles among a range of weapons at the event being held in Abu Dhabi. Why India Opted For Israeli Tank-Buster...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eurasiantimes.com





















their system!!

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 722600
> 
> View attachment 722601
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 722602
> 
> 
> 
> 
> their system!!
> 
> View attachment 722604


Amra khan ridiculed this guy I remember

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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> Amra khan ridiculed this guy I remember


why? nd as per his fb id his company delivered sum armed drone to bangladesh military nd spare parts of fm90.. @BlackViking once talked about this drone as far as i remember.. @BlackViking whats up bro??

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> why? nd as per his fb id his company delivered sum armed drone to bangladesh military nd spare parts of fm90.. @BlackViking once talked about this drone as far as i remember.. @BlackViking whats up bro??


Something along the lines of this guy critiquing his judgement of Chinese fighter jets.

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## Destranator

There actually might not be any sixth generation fighter jets entering mass production for the following reasons:

Rapid advancements in armed drone tech. Supersonic heavy drones might soon be a reality.
Various hurdles in transitioning to fifth gen fighter technology. For example - the F-35 project has been a disaster from a cost perspective. The project started off to produce cost effective replacements for F-16s but has now ended up as a vanity project. The USAF chief recently admitted that the F-35 is not suitable for regular sorties but only "high intensity" conflicts and dubbed it as a "Ferrari that you only drive on Sundays". Moreover, third world countries might never mass induct fighters costing $100-200 million a pop.
Air forces around the world will remain stuck with 4th gen fighters. Even the USAF expects F-16s to remain in service till 2046/48. Leonardo pledges to support EFTs till 2060.
Rapid advancement in ground and airborne radars increasingly nullifying stealthiness of fifth gen fighters rendering the tech "obsolete" to an extent even before it is widely adopted. Air forces might just quit chasing stealthiness due to limited benefits vs costs.
Deadly conflicts becoming increasingly unpopular around the world. Advent of online media around the world is making it difficult for world leaders to put soldiers in harms way under false pretexts.
Bottom line is: BAF will do well to fully embrace and develop drone tech for themselves.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> There actually might not be any sixth generation fighter jets entering mass production for the following reasons:
> 
> Rapid advancements in armed drone tech. Supersonic heavy drones might soon be a reality.
> Various hurdles in transitioning to fifth gen fighter technology. For example - the F-35 project has been a disaster for a cost perspective. The project started off as a cost effective replacement for F-16s but has now ended up as a vanity project. The USAF chief recently admitted that the F-35 is not suitable for regular sorties but only for "high intensity" conflicts and dubbed it as a "Ferrari that you only drive on Sundays". Moreover, third world countries might never mass induct fighters costing $100-200 million a pop.
> Air forces around the world will remain stuck with 4th gen fighters. Even the USAF expects F-16s to remain in service till 2046/48. Leonardo pledges to support EFTs till 2060.
> Rapid advancement in ground and airborne radars increasingly nullifying stealthiness of fifth gen fighters rendering the tech "obsolete" to an extent even before it is widely adopted. Air forces around the world might just quit chasing stealthiness.
> Deadly conflicts becoming increasingly unpopular around the world. Advent of online media around the world is making it difficult for world leaders to put soldiers in harms way under false pretexts.
> Bottom line is: BAF will do well to fully embrace and develop drone tech for themselves.


The bad guys will have to inspire the world again, China and Russia’s version of 6th gen is looking into autonomy for 5th gen platforms. Australia seems to be playing its bets correctly with loyal wingman. Modern fighters are highly maneuverable, especially the Russian varieties but the kinetic performance generated is too difficult for a human to sustain consistently. Remove the human factor and you’ve sixth gen fighter jets that’s superior to any 5th gen dogfighting machine

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Amra khan ridiculed this guy I remember


Is he the guy running DefSeca FB page ? A complete moron. Saw his post saying that ''Actually, India is our Friend '' and immediately logged off FB. 

Also anyone know what happened to the $1 Bn Line of Credit from China for airforce procurement ? So called defence analysts in FB and YT were jumping up and down about this in 2017.

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## Avicenna

FIRST PIC of Bangabondhu-35 guys!!!!!







Can't wait to export this bad boy!!!!!

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> FIRST PIC of Bangabondhu-35 guys!!!!!
> 
> View attachment 722613
> 
> 
> Can't wait to export this bad boy!!!!!


interesting , what do you think the naming convention be for any fighter that we develop? 
BF- (Number) sounds good.


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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> interesting , what do you think the naming convention be for any fighter that we develop?
> BF- (Number) sounds good.



How about something starting with I-(number).

I as in imaginary.

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> How about something starting with I-(number).
> 
> I as in imaginary.



If we do develop a fighter it will likely be a Chinese aircraft manufactured in Bangladesh with some minor tweaks and a name like Bangubandu-3000 ultra modern 4th gen aircraft with SUPWA DUPA AESA RADAR or some $hit like that.

BUT , Bangladesh can start to make helicopters on it's own since it isn't nearly as difficult as making a fighter jet.

Now it depends on the helicopter , is it ASW or is it just for troop carriers/gunship or rescue 


Now for the engines it will likely be foreign


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Is he the guy running DefSeca FB page ? A complete moron. Saw his post saying that ''Actually, India is our Friend '' and immediately logged off FB.
> 
> Also anyone know what happened to the $1 Bn Line of Credit from China for airforce procurement ? So called defence analysts in FB and YT were jumping up and down about this in 2017.


Ofc Bangladesh rejected them in light of rohynga crisis

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Ofc Bangladesh rejected them in light of rohynga crisis




That rejection hurt Bangladesh more than China lol , lmao what were these fools thinking just because they refuse an offer from the Chinese some how the Chinese will economically collapse ? 

China has better things to do , these fools missed an opportunity to buy J-10s and also the Royhinga crisis didn't give the BAF a lesson for some reason. 

Since with the recent coup , Myanmar will and I mean will still violate our airspace and waters and wtf is BAF going to do then ? Cry to the UN ? 

Our navy is decent but guess what ? We still need more ships and subs to guard our own resources , also since now Bangladesh can get resources from the sea floor we definitely need a freaking better Navy.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Ofc Bangladesh rejected them in light of rohynga crisis


Credit with China usually does not work like that. It is GoB which formally requests credit which China reviews and approves/rejects. BD most likely simply stopped pursuing it in 2017.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Credit with China usually does not work like that. It is GoB which formally requests credit which China reviews and approves/rejects. BD most likely simply stopped pursuing it in 2017.


Exactly. I was just mentioning how defseca put it. Although at the time I was part of their team... I knew it was a load of horseshit
Just couldn’t challenge his narrative without being dropped. So I left voluntarily

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Exactly. I was just mentioning how defseca put it. Although at the time I was part of their team... I knew it was a load of horseshit
> Just couldn’t challenge his narrative without being dropped. So I left voluntarily


Hahahah...yeah I figured a long time ago.
BTW, have you seen one of their recent posts in which they have basically declared to wash their hands off any responsibility for past predictions?

Edit: Here it is:




__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=280475446845299&id=110131083879737

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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> That rejection hurt Bangladesh more than China lol , lmao what were these fools thinking just because they refuse an offer from the Chinese some how the Chinese will economically collapse ?
> 
> China has better things to do , these fools missed an opportunity to buy J-10s and also the Royhinga crisis didn't give the BAF a lesson for some reason.
> 
> Since with the recent coup , Myanmar will and I mean will still violate our airspace and waters and wtf is BAF going to do then ? Cry to the UN ?
> 
> Our navy is decent but guess what ? We still need more ships and subs to guard our own resources , also since now Bangladesh can get resources from the sea floor we definitely need a freaking better Navy.



it was the right decision at the time... what is the point in buying something that can not be used freely against the burmese?

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Hahahah...yeah I figured a long time ago.
> BTW, have you seen one of their recent posts in which they have basically declared to wash their hands off any responsibility for past predictions?
> 
> Edit: Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=280475446845299&id=110131083879737


What a bunch of hogwash
He’s a master narcissist controlling every aspect of every post 
Doesn’t get info himself. His sources are friend of friends of team members 
Lmao he didn’t know the specs for the tenders were sukhoi jets until I told him that’s exactly what they were 😂😂😂

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## F-6 enthusiast

I have a feeling that If BAF doesn't sign any contract this year (50th anniversary of independence) or next year (Air show) we won't be getting anything in the foreseeable future.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I have a feeling that If BAF doesn't sign any contract this year (50th anniversary of independence) or next year (Air show) we won't be getting anything in the foreseeable future.



The thing is that we better buy something now or else we will have to switch onto a 5th gen platform , I feel like we will eventually buy something it just will be a bit late


mb444 said:


> it was the right decision at the time... what is the point in buying something that can not be used freely against the burmese?



I mean you can sorta use it against the Burmese , but again missed opportunity and a lot of our weapons are Chinese so ?

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> it was the right decision at the time... what is the point in buying something that can not be used freely against the burmese?




India is also a threat, although a more distant one.

In hindsight maybe a missed opportunity from one angle but then again BD has never been serious about air-defence since BNP came into power in 2001.

On balance, probably the right decision as China was totally in the wrong to support the Barman savages in 2017 and BD would have looked a door-mat if it went ahead with a major Chinese weapons purchase at the time.

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## LeGenD

@Avicenna 

Touch of humor is appreciated but do not overdo this.


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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> His sources are friend of friends of team members


His sources 







ghost250 said:


> @BlackViking once talked about this drone as far as i remember.. @BlackViking whats up bro?


Hey bro.. I heard "drones without armaments are coming..deal signed " back then. I'm not sure about wing long 2...but if bd actually order WL2 they should be here by now

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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> The thing is that we better buy something now or else we will have to switch onto a 5th gen platform , I feel like we will eventually buy something it just will be a bit late
> 
> 
> I mean you can sorta use it against the Burmese , but again missed opportunity and a lot of our weapons are Chinese so ?



Lack of islamic supplier of jets is the underlying problem. BD as a muslim nation can only rely on other muslim nation in times of trouble. Look at the royingya debacle, the only country that stood with us was turkey, indonesia and too some extent malaysia. That was all.

every current supplier of jets has geo political limitations attached to them. We need to develop our own, tie up with a supplier we can rely on, wait for a muslim supplier to come into the scene or buy from someone and accept the conditions.

Given these are the choices I would go with western tech as they are the best. Given BDs defensive position it is unlikely we will be sanctioned, i would go for EFT simply because whilst indian may have great pull with GB , BD also has leverage due to historical reasons, diaspora, etc ... same as india. 

In this i suppose I am in disagreement with most members here.... I would only buy 2-4 sqd of EFT and thats it....no further outright export purchase of any jets at all. 

For the low in our high-low mix we need to go it alone or get into a JV with the chinese/turks or whomever. Going it alone does look unrealistic given we do not have the technological base. We need to start somewhere so need to start with basic trainers. It needs to be a duel track, trainer design and manufacture and jet assembly simultaneously.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> Lack of islamic supplier of jets is the underlying problem. BD as a muslim nation can only rely on other muslim nation in times of trouble. Look at the royingya debacle, the only country that stood with us was turkey, indonesia and too some extent malaysia. That was all.
> 
> every current supplier of jets has geo political limitations attached to them. We need to develop our own, tie up with a supplier we can rely on, wait for a muslim supplier to come into the scene or buy from someone and accept the conditions.
> 
> Given these are the choices I would go with western tech as they are the best. Given BDs defensive position it is unlikely we will be sanctioned, i would go for EFT simply because whilst indian may have great pull with GB , BD also has leverage due to historical reasons, diaspora, etc ... same as india.
> 
> In this i suppose I am in disagreement with most members here.... I would only buy 2-4 sqd of EFT and thats it....no further outright export purchase of any jets at all.
> 
> For the low in our high-low mix we need to go it alone or get into a JV with the chinese/turks or whomever. Going it alone does look unrealistic given we do not have the technological base. We need to start somewhere so need to start with basic trainers. It needs to be a duel track, trainer design and manufacture and jet assembly simultaneously.



Yeah I guess , but what about the medium range SAMs ? We also need an iron dome of ourselves to protect our industrial bases and ports with something at least. 


For fighters I guess it's EFTs and I guess no backbone but the old rusty F-7s , and for maritime strike it's EFTs and I guess the F-7s ?


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## The Ronin

Leonardo is still not much involved with navy so i am gonna share it here.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369615778555772928


ghost250 said:


> their system!!



What are you trying to say? Why did you share SS like this instead of posting the original photos? Had to work extra because of you. 😑
















What's this?













Michael Corleone said:


> How come they didn’t show it off then?



That's why i said "according to". Not believing it until i see anything.



Michael Corleone said:


> Amra khan ridiculed this guy I remember



I can see why. CASA is a USA brand and they make helicopter? Fix wing Sukhoi? 








ghost250 said:


> nd as per his fb id his company delivered sum armed drone to bangladesh military nd spare parts of fm90



But FM-90 is manufactured by China National Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation (CNPMIEC) . How did this company supply spares?

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## BlackViking

ghost250 said:


> View attachment 722600
> 
> View attachment 722601
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 722602
> 
> 
> 
> 
> their system!!
> 
> View attachment 722604


This guy works in changshu ytian Corp right? Yeah that's what I was talking about...I've seen the contract paper. Perhaps this is what bd bought without weapons..not WL 2

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## ghost250

Bangladesh airforce has requested 25200(3 BILLION US dollar) crore taka to purchase 16 MRCA.....armed forces division alrdy approved this decisn..now its upto governmnt...





__ https://www.facebook.com/defence.research.org/photos/a.1766307177010972/2491182331190116

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## BlackViking

ghost250 said:


> Bangladesh airforce has requested 25200(3 BILLION US dollar) crore taka to purchase 16 MRCA.....armed forces division alrdy approved this decisn..now its upto governmnt...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/defence.research.org/photos/a.1766307177010972/2491182331190116


Official conformation will come within 2 months

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Official conformation will come within 2 months



I swear to ALLAH I better see some dam fine looking EFTs with Bangladesh's flag on the tails , hopefully this is true

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> I swear to ALLAH I better see some dam fine looking EFTs with Bangladesh's flag on the tails , hopefully this is true


Baf finalized which jet they want to buy along with spares, training and weapons and then asked for the specific amount of money. Govt will approve cause govt agreed to fund the mrca program a long time ago. And if everything goes smoothly baf will sign the deal this year in sha Allah as they asked for the downpayment money from this years budget.

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> I swear to ALLAH I better see some dam fine looking EFTs with Bangladesh's flag on the tails , hopefully this is true


I hope they don't get any twin seaters , they look ugly af

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I hope they don't get any twin seaters , they look ugly af




Lol true but I feel like they will cause I guess we got spare pilots

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## BlackViking

T


F-6 enthusiast said:


> I hope they don't get any twin seaters , they look ugly af


There will be 4 two seaters :p

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> I swear to ALLAH I better see some dam fine looking EFTs with Bangladesh's flag on the tails , hopefully this is true


Why does everyone here want EFT?

Rather have gripen with TOT

EFT will only make burma piss in its pants. Will be useless against india. In any conflict all the indians have to do is Knock out these guys and there goes BD airforce.

I Hope after these EFT, BD will get atleast 2-3 squadrons of J-10 and/or atleast an armory of strike drones with TOT

Otherwise these EFT are just shiny toys.

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## Rahil Ahmed

__ https://www.facebook.com/901411536697495/posts/1686072464898061




According to here the plan is to start manufacturing the J10c at least in part indigenously

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/288352309390946







BlackViking said:


> Yeah that's what I was talking about...I've seen the contract paper. Perhaps this is what bd bought without weapons..not WL 2



What was in the contract paper? There are three tenders for UAV. Two MALE UCAV tenders and one UAV tender. The latter is for recce and artillery strike. So if the UAV you are talking about really comes then it should be for the latter one.



F-6 enthusiast said:


> I hope they don't get any twin seaters , they look ugly af



They will need them for OCU.


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## Jobless Jack

Rahil Ahmed said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/901411536697495/posts/1686072464898061
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to here the plan is to start manufacturing the J10c at least in part indigenously


I like this. But too many variants. Migs EFT and now J-10.

Be like pakistan. Master 1 platform

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## Avicenna

Guys who would have dreamed that BAF would be buying Eurofighter only a few years ago. (And new build at that)

If true, then rejoice!!!!

This marks a significant shift for Bangladesh for a variety of reasons.

No matter what WESTERN fighter BAF purchases there will always be pros and cons.

But the key word here is WESTERN.

So lets hope this materializes.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> Guys who would have dreamed that BAF would be buying Eurofighter only a few years ago. (And new build at that)
> 
> If true, then rejoice!!!!
> 
> This marks a significant shift for Bangladesh for a variety of reasons.
> 
> No matter what WESTERN fighter BAF purchases there will always be pros and cons.
> 
> But the key word here is WESTERN.
> 
> So lets hope this materializes.



With a purchase like this comes the training and support .I hope our pilots get training from the RAF and have a chance to participate in excercises like red flag .

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> With a purchase like this comes the training and support .I hope our pilots get training from the RAF and have a chance to participate in excercises like red flag .



Yes,

Upping the training to effectively employ these beasts is key.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> Yes,
> 
> Upping the training to effectively employ these beasts is key.


I guess that is how PAF has always triumphed over its arch rival. Training and Professionalism. Not just the pilots but the maintenance crew as well


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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I guess that is how PAF has always triumphed over its arch rival. Training and Professionalism. Not just the pilots but the maintenance crew as well



PAF is a force to be reckoned with.

As the events of Feb 27 have shown.

Bangladesh can learn alot from Pakistan in that regard.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> PAF is a force to be reckoned with.
> 
> As the events of Feb 27 have shown.
> 
> Bangladesh can learn alot from Pakistan in that regard.


There is much to learn from PAF.
I suspect the EFT *MIGHT *have been chosen due to its range and kinematic performance over the Gripen (naval strike maybe?) . It will be maintenance heavy (double engines vs single engine argument). It will be better than any Su-30 variant in terms of RCS, EW, Availability rates, supercruise and armaments. I hope this deal is finalised before the 50th anniversary of independence.
Here's Hushkit analysis of EFT vs Su-35 ( as unbiased as they get and technical ) if you have time.

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## F-6 enthusiast

at the time of the video , Meteor was not fully integrated. The AMRAAM can be fired from the EFT and the performance of AA-12 is not good when compared to the AMRAAM.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Guys who would have dreamed that BAF would be buying Eurofighter only a few years ago. (And new build at that)
> 
> If true, then rejoice!!!!
> 
> This marks a significant shift for Bangladesh for a variety of reasons.
> 
> No matter what WESTERN fighter BAF purchases there will always be pros and cons.
> 
> But the key word here is WESTERN.
> 
> So lets hope this materializes.




Whilst nothing is confirmed.... would love it if they confirm it on the 16th in front of modi....

Last 2 years has seen BAF delegates visit UK multiple times.... fingers crossed... for me momentous descision after the subs and karisgas....keeping fingers crossed...

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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Why does everyone here want EFT?
> 
> Rather have gripen with TOT
> 
> EFT will only make burma piss in its pants. Will be useless against india. In any conflict all the indians have to do is Knock out these guys and there goes BD airforce.
> 
> I Hope after these EFT, BD will get atleast 2-3 squadrons of J-10 and/or atleast an armory of strike drones with TOT
> 
> Otherwise these EFT are just shiny toys.



Yes we will get the J-10s cause again their costs are much lower and perfect for replacing our flying coffins aka F-7s. And of course it's Chinese so making deals will be much easier , hopefully we will get J-10Cs


mb444 said:


> Whilst nothing is confirmed.... would love it if they confirm it on the 16th in front of modi....
> 
> Last 2 years has seen BAF delegates visit UK multiple times.... fingers crossed... for me momentous descision after the subs and karisgas....keeping fingers crossed...



I agree man I hope too , after this our next goal will be to start our Frigate program and find a partner quick and start building the infrastructure to support and build our next gen Frigates.


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## Indos

Avicenna said:


> Guys who would have dreamed that BAF would be buying Eurofighter only a few years ago. (And new build at that)
> 
> If true, then rejoice!!!!
> 
> This marks a significant shift for Bangladesh for a variety of reasons.
> 
> No matter what WESTERN fighter BAF purchases there will always be pros and cons.
> 
> But the key word here is WESTERN.
> 
> So lets hope this materializes.



Yup, look like Bangladesh administration is piss off with latest China support on Myanmar over Rohingya issue. The road to KFX/IFX is getting bigger now

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## Indos

The nine countries, who had abstained from voting on the resolution in 2019, are: Cameroon, Equatorial Guinea, Kenya, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, Tanzania, Palau and the Solomon Islands. The resolution was adopted by a record vote of 130 in favour and nine against, with 25 abstentions, on Thursday, according to media reports.

The countries who voted against the resolution are *Belarus, Cambodia, China, Laos, Myanmar, the Philippines, Russia, Vietnam and Zimbabwe.*









Nine more countries back UN resolution to condemn Myanmar


The nine countries had previously abstained from voting on the resolution




www.dhakatribune.com








*Nov 19, 2020*, *12:50PM*
 *UN adopts resolution for urgent solution of Rohingya crisis*

The United Nations has adopted a resolution calling for the urgent solution of the Rohingya crisis. The resolution tabled by the Organisation of Islamic Countries (OIC) and European Union (EU) was adopted on Wednesday by a majority of 132 countries voting in favour, 9 against and 31 abstentions.

According to the Press Release issued by the permanent mission of Bangladesh at the UN, this year the resolution has taken some new developments into account such as the provisional order of the International Criminal Court of Justice and the issue of disenfranchisement of the Rohingya and other minorities.

The resolution called for specific action on the part of Myanmar to address the root cause of the Rohingya crisis including granting them citizenship and ensuring safe and sustainable return to their homes by creating a conducive environment.

The resolution appreciated the government of Bangladesh for the humanitarian act of providing shelter to the displaced Rohingyas. It called upon other countries to support Bangladesh in its humanitarian effort.



 





News On AIR - News Services Division, All India Radio News - NewsOnAIR -


[ad_1] PM Modi says India’s energy will energize the world; Inaugurates 4th India Energy Forum &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Rajnath Singh holds bilateral delegation level meeting with US counterpart Mark Esper; EAM Jaishankar meets his US counterpart Mike Pompeo...




www.newsonair.com

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## BlackViking

The Ronin said:


> What was in the contract paper? There are three tenders for UAV. Two MALE UCAV tenders and one UAV tender. The latter is for recce and artillery strike. So if the UAV you are talking about really comes then it should be for the latter one.


Yeah it was for army. So I think it's for recce and artillery strike.


SpaceMan18 said:


> after this our next goal will be to start our Frigate program and find a partner quick and start building the infrastructure to support and build our next gen Frigates.


Not happening before 2025 I think

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## F-6 enthusiast

Indos said:


> Yup, look like Bangladesh administration is piss off with latest China support on Myanmar over Rohingya issue. The road to KFX/IFX is getting bigger now


I hope we can get KFX/IFX in the future. The problem is the American engine. We simply do not trust US foreign policy. Can they integrate EJ200 on the IFX/KFX ? 
The only major Muslim countries that supported us with Aid and diplomatically during this crisis were Turkey , Indonesia (Jokowi visited the refugee camps) and Malaysia . At least we can rely on these countries to support us. It is essential to strenghten ties with these countries in defence and economic matters. We cannot become a pawn of either US or China in their game.

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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I hope we can get KFX/IFX in the future. The problem is the American engine. We simply do not trust US foreign policy. Can they integrate EJ200 on the IFX/KFX ?
> The only major Muslim countries that supported us with Aid and diplomatically during this crisis were Turkey , Indonesia (Jokowi visited the refugee camps) and Malaysia . At least we can rely on these countries to support us. It is essential to strenghten ties with these countries in defence and economic matters. We cannot become a pawn of either US or China in their game.



The early design is made to have either F 414 or EJ 200, but I dont think we can put EJ 200 now as F414 has already selected to power the plane. 

British can also do embargoed. In the past Indonesia get embargoed from US and British over East Timor issues. 

Yup I think Bangladeh better buy fighters from either Turkey or Indonesia since the money will develop further our defense industry than pouring it into another nation that could side with your potential enemy in the future.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Hahahah...yeah I figured a long time ago.
> BTW, have you seen one of their recent posts in which they have basically declared to wash their hands off any responsibility for past predictions?
> 
> Edit: Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=280475446845299&id=110131083879737


The narcissist has control over everything, his micromanaging led me to not do anything at all because you got no autonomy in decision making or what post goes up etc

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## Michael Corleone

3 billion for 16 EFT not worth it. 
peach plane comes down to 187.5m while Germany is getting same for about 171m can’t use infrastructure as reason since they’re not replacing but expanding. 
with 3 billion we could get lot of gripen I tell you at about 125m a pop
24 atleast everything included. Spend 4 billion instead and we could get TOT like Brazil and start manufacture in bd. 
but no 16 EFT it it
Imagine crashing these like the YAK-130s
BAF would have to declare bankruptcy


Jobless Jack said:


> I like this. But too many variants. Migs EFT and now J-10.
> 
> Be like pakistan. Master 1 platform


Speculation here 
If we had sane heads we would stick to one platform and think of local manufacture. 
Gripen and j10 are the only options I see


F-6 enthusiast said:


> I guess that is how PAF has always triumphed over its arch rival. Training and Professionalism. Not just the pilots but the maintenance crew as well


They got trained by RAF and USAF for long time before the 65 war and regularly train with major air forces. Truly world class pilots

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> 3 billion for 16 EFT not worth it.
> peach plane comes down to 187.5m while Germany is getting same for about 171m can’t use infrastructure as reason since they’re not replacing but expanding.
> with 3 billion we could get lot of gripen I tell you at about 125m a pop
> 24 atleast everything included. Spend 4 billion instead and we could get TOT like Brazil and start manufacture in bd.
> but no 16 EFT it it
> Imagine crashing these like the YAK-130s
> BAF would have to declare bankruptcy
> 
> Speculation here
> If we had sane heads we would stick to one platform and think of local manufacture.
> Gripen and j10 are the only options I see
> 
> They got trained by RAF and USAF for long time before the 65 war and regularly train with major air forces. Truly world class pilots



I agree with you we should have gotten Gripens , also Bangladeshi pilots do not have crazy good flight hours so idk how we will fare in combat though.


Pilot matters the most , Gripens were meant for Bangladesh but NOPE BAF thinks it's too perfect for us and chose EFT.

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> I agree with you we should have gotten Gripens , also Bangladeshi pilots do not have crazy good flight hours so idk how we will fare in combat though.
> 
> 
> Pilot matters the most , Gripens were meant for Bangladesh but NOPE BAF thinks it's too perfect for us and chose EFT.


It's not either or;
BAF can buy EFT, Rafale, F-35, F-22, or whatever for air superiority but this should not be prioritised over low cost, high serviceability fighters.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> It's not either or;
> BAF can buy EFT, Rafale, F-35, F-22, or whatever for air superiority but this should not be prioritised over low cost, high serviceability fighters.


😨😨😨😨

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## F-6 enthusiast

Will it be possible to integrate Gökdoğan (BVRAAM) and Bozdoğan (SRAAM) from Turkey into the EFT system? We could stock up on Meteors *IF *we get EFT but they are too expensive to have in any meaningful number. EFT can fire AMRAAM but we are not signing any contract with US anytime soon.

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Will it be possible to integrate Gökdoğan (BVRAAM) and Bozdoğan (SRAAM) from Turkey into the EFT system? We could stock up on Meteors *IF *we get EFT but they are too expensive to have in any meaningful number. EFT can fire AMRAAM but we are not signing any contract with US anytime soon.



You would need the UK(radar supplier) to work with Turkey to make this happen and so almost impossible.

As for Meteor cost, it is similar to AMRAAM 120D, which is a little inferior missile to Meteor, and BAF will probably not get more than 16 x 8 for its MRCA requirement. That makes 128 missiles and with a unit cost of 2.3 million dollars that comes to around 300 million dollars. They are expensive but not unduly so when compared to the cost of the actual plane.

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## xbat

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Will it be possible to integrate Gökdoğan (BVRAAM) and Bozdoğan (SRAAM) from Turkey into the EFT system? We could stock up on Meteors *IF *we get EFT but they are too expensive to have in any meaningful number. EFT can fire AMRAAM but we are not signing any contract with US anytime soon.


giving codes for integration to EF mission computer means
-for gokdogan radar guided missile , HAND over all critical data,range frequencies etc to british hands, they can make easily countermeasure and share them with their allies(huge risc for turkey also for bangladesh), making special version possible but still essential data will flow to brits like range , radar range etc..
-for bozdogan IIR missile, it is much easier to integrate to EF but it is high off boresight missile so it uses data link , and EF will know the exact frequencies and its algorithms , prone to leak critical data too. 

so practically it is a hard job and why british accept foreign missiles on their platform?

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> 3 billion for 16 EFT not worth it.
> peach plane comes down to 187.5m while Germany is getting same for about 171m can’t use infrastructure as reason since they’re not replacing but expanding.
> with 3 billion we could get lot of gripen I tell you at about 125m a pop
> 24 atleast everything included. Spend 4 billion instead and we could get TOT like Brazil and start manufacture in bd.
> but no 16 EFT it it
> Imagine crashing these like the YAK-130s
> BAF would have to declare bankruptcy



I agree with you plus for $3 billion I don't think they will get 16 most likely 12 Eurofighters.
Unless if they get 8 used and 8 new deal similar to what France is giving Greece for Rafales.

Another thing what BAF has not thought about is the availability rate of the Eurofighters,
during a war half will be going through maintenance.

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## Michael Corleone

alphapak said:


> I agree with you plus for $3 billion I don't think they will get 16 most likely 12 Eurofighters.
> Unless if they get 8 used and 8 new deal similar to what France is giving Greece for Rafales.
> 
> Another thing what BAF has not thought about is the availability rate of the Eurofighters,
> during a war half will be going through maintenance.


Absolutely those things are snowflakes, needs to be kept in temp regulated hangars... given Bangladesh’s crazy humidity I won’t expect more than half to be operational at any moment

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## alphapak

Michael Corleone said:


> Absolutely those things are snowflakes, needs to be kept in temp regulated hangars... given Bangladesh’s crazy humidity I won’t expect more than half to be operational at any moment



This is the reason why PAF made the JF17, they are light weight multi role and easy to
maintain. During a war most will be in the Air defending the country.

India also has a big problem with the Su30 MKI availability rate.

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## F-6 enthusiast

alphapak said:


> This is the reason why PAF made the JF17, they are light weight multi role and easy to
> maintain. During a war most will be in the Air defending the country.
> 
> India also has a big problem with the Su30 MKI availability rate.



Flankers are on a league of their own when it comes to maintenance required. Too many moving parts


UKBengali said:


> That makes 128 missiles and with a unit cost of 2.3 million dollars that comes to around 300 million dollars.


I read somewhere that Meteor has a unit cost of around 6 million usd. Hence my post. I cannot find the source


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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> 3 billion for 16 EFT not worth it.
> peach plane comes down to 187.5m while Germany is getting same for about 171m can’t use infrastructure as reason since they’re not replacing but expanding.
> with 3 billion we could get lot of gripen I tell you at about 125m a pop
> 24 atleast everything included. Spend 4 billion instead and we could get TOT like Brazil and start manufacture in bd.
> but no 16 EFT it it
> Imagine crashing these like the YAK-130s
> BAF would have to declare bankruptcy
> 
> Speculation here
> If we had sane heads we would stick to one platform and think of local manufacture.
> Gripen and j10 are the only options I see
> 
> They got trained by RAF and USAF for long time before the 65 war and regularly train with major air forces. Truly world class pilots


I think it will probably be gripen. 
Either the total number of planes to be purchased is more or the money from the budget is less. 
The source is not an official one. Its a draft


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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I read somewhere that Meteor has a unit cost of around 6 million usd. Hence my post. I cannot find the source




Meteor cost is similar to AIM-120D as it is being used by pretty much the whole of Europe and has been exported to India already. 

Future confirmed operators will include Brazil, Egypt, Greece, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and even S Korea.

It will become just as widespread as the US AMRAAM and so have the same economies of scale.

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> Meteor cost is similar to AIM-120D as it is being used by pretty much the whole of Europe and has been exported to India already.
> 
> Future confirmed operators will include Brazil, Egypt, Greece, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and even S Korea.
> 
> It will become just as widespread as the US AMRAAM and so have the same economies of scale.


KSA placed a big order for Meteors very recently while the US placed arms deals with KSA ''on review'' . The Tories don't really care who they sell weapons to lol. 
Let's hope our economy can support 1 Squadron of EFT and the infrastructure.


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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Will it be possible to integrate Gökdoğan (BVRAAM) and Bozdoğan (SRAAM) from Turkey into the EFT system? We could stock up on Meteors *IF *we get EFT but they are too expensive to have in any meaningful number. EFT can fire AMRAAM but we are not signing any contract with US anytime soon.



We do not need them in any meaningful numbers... lets go with UkBengalis estimate of 128 missiles...lets say 50% success rate that 64 enemy kills..... how many jets can IAF loose and how long will our 16 EFT survive....

We really do not need to think about integrating random platform to the EFT.... its a complete package....


What we need to back up the EFT in the air are other fighters like J10 or JFT with additional BVR capabilities, combat drones and SAMs.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Jobless Jack said:


> I think it will probably be gripen.
> Either the total number of planes to be purchased is more or the money from the budget is less.
> The source is not an official one. Its a draft


*IF *Typhoons are procured, we might get a mix of used and new. *MIGHT*

Our policymakers seem to have an allergy to any offensive weapon with US components.

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## alphapak

mb444 said:


> We do not need them in any meaningful numbers... lets go with UkBengalis estimate of 128 missiles...lets say 50% success rate that 64 enemy kills..... how many jets can IAF loose and how long will our 16 EFT survive....
> 
> We really do not need to think about integrating random platform to the EFT.... its a complete package....
> 
> 
> What we need to back up the EFT in the air are other fighters like J10 or JFT with additional BVR capabilities, combat drones and SAMs.



16 Eurofighters will not be available during a war, with 50% availability rate you will have
8. It all depends on how well BAF maintains the fleet and if they have all the spares.

Once BAF has ordered the Eurofighters forget about J10's and Gripens for about 10 years.

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## mb444

alphapak said:


> 16 Eurofighters will not be available during a war, with 50% availability rate you will have
> 8. It all depends on how well BAF maintains the fleet and if they have all the spares.
> 
> Once BAF has ordered the Eurofighters forget about J10's and Gripens for about 10 years.




In a suddent conflict yes there would be reduced combat ready aircrafts....however if there is gradual progression of tention there is no reason why all can not be combat ready.

No of available combat ready aircraft would be dependent of many variables.... there is no magic availability number.

Also there is absolutely no reason in the world why BAF will pause its upgrade process....the economy can sustain it and it has always been mostly about the money

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## BlackViking

Jobless Jack said:


> I think it will probably be gripen


No something double engine will come. Baf engineers and pilots team visited dassault, leonardo and Boeing plants...they also flew those aircrafts. So one of these three will come I think


F-6 enthusiast said:


> *IF *Typhoons are procured, we might get a mix of used and new.


The rumor is baf will buy t3 eft's from Raf/Italy air force's existing fleet. Could be 8 could be all. 
But it's a just a rumor. I guess we will know soon.
Or baf can buy new/refurbished mixed rafale like Greece with mica with this budget so they wont have to worry about bvr...we can get meteor when its available for us

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Flankers are on a league of their own when it comes to maintenance required. Too many moving parts


Not as bad as mig 29 though


Jobless Jack said:


> I think it will probably be gripen.
> Either the total number of planes to be purchased is more or the money from the budget is less.
> The source is not an official one. Its a draft


If it’s it will be better plus proves the Facebook generals wrong but given how much they quoted for 16 jets... it’s way too much to be gripens.


BlackViking said:


> No something double engine will come. Baf engineers and pilots team visited dassault, leonardo and Boeing plants...they also flew those aircrafts. So one of these three will come I think


Yep


BlackViking said:


> The rumor is baf will buy t3 eft's from Raf/Italy air force's existing fleet. Could be 8 could be all.
> But it's a just a rumor. I guess we will know soon.
> Or baf can buy new/refurbished mixed rafale like Greece with mica with this budget so they wont have to worry about bvr...we can get meteor when its available for us


No used fleet. RAF decided to cannibalize their old ones

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> Also there is absolutely no reason in the world why BAF will pause its upgrade process....the economy can sustain it and it has always been mostly about the money



It will get paused by the bureaucracy even if BAF intends to continue procuring fighters.
The repayments for EFT will be hung over BAF's head by the bureaucracy and BAF will more likely than not meekly cave. Let us just hope (hoping against hope) future BAF leadership is as bold as BA and BN's and manages to realise their demands.
Add to that, delivery of EFTs will take 3-5 years.
BAF will continue to remain exposed till then.

The procurement of EFT is not unjustified but very very poorly timed.

At this moment we need to ensure round the clock availability of dozens of 4.5 gen fighters. Gripen fits the bill perfectly.

@Michael Corleone We are very likely to get stuck with, as you call them, "prestige jets" until 11:59 pm on 31st December 2029. As the clock strikes 12 am, BAF will magically introduce 9 additional 4.5 gen squadrons to realise Forces Goal 2030.

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## ziaulislam

UKBengali said:


> Meteor cost is similar to AIM-120D as it is being used by pretty much the whole of Europe and has been exported to India already.
> 
> Future confirmed operators will include Brazil, Egypt, Greece, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and even S Korea.
> 
> It will become just as widespread as the US AMRAAM and so have the same economies of scale.


No..its 4X more expensive
And is in limited use


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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> It will get paused by the bureaucracy even if BAF intends to continue procuring fighters.
> The repayments for EFT will be hung over BAF's head by the bureaucracy and BAF will more likely than not meekly cave. Let us just hope (hoping against hope) future BAF leadership is as bold as BA and BN's and manages to realise their demands.
> Add to that, delivery of EFTs will take 3-5 years.
> BAF will continue to remain exposed till then.
> 
> The procurement of EFT is not unjustified but very very poorly timed.
> 
> At this moment we need to ensure round the clock availability of dozens of 4.5 gen fighters. Gripen fits the bill perfectly.
> 
> @Michael Corleone We are very likely to get stuck with, as you call them, "prestige jets" until 11:59 pm on 31st December 2029. As the clock strikes 12 am, BAF will magically introduce 9 additional 4.5 gen squadrons to realise Forces Goal 2030.



But the thing here is that near 2030 the economy will be much larger and plus BAF themselves know that they will need a 5th gen aircraft soon soo. 

Turkish 5th gen fighter makes the most sense then , again we don't know how the leadership will change in the BAF.


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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> We do not need them in any meaningful numbers... lets go with UkBengalis estimate of 128 missiles...lets say 50% success rate that 64 enemy kills..... how many jets can IAF loose and how long will our 16 EFT survive....
> 
> We really do not need to think about integrating random platform to the EFT.... its a complete package....
> 
> 
> What we need to back up the EFT in the air are other fighters like J10 or JFT with additional BVR capabilities, combat drones and SAMs.



By the way do you know the price of J-10C ?

I saw somewhere it's like 41 million usd , if that's the case we can get 24-25 J-10Cs for 1 billion dollars which is pretty decent.

I still don't know why we aren't getting J-10Cs to replace our F-7s


Also most importantly why hasn't BAF set a tender of AWACS ? Without AWACS there's no point of BVR fighters






This Saab Erieye is perfect for us





And of course don't forget the Hisar-O

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## Jobless Jack

BlackViking said:


> No something double engine will come. Baf engineers and pilots team visited dassault, leonardo and Boeing plants...they also flew those aircrafts. So one of these three will come I think
> 
> The rumor is baf will buy t3 eft's from Raf/Italy air force's existing fleet. Could be 8 could be all.
> But it's a just a rumor. I guess we will know soon.
> Or baf can buy new/refurbished mixed rafale like Greece with mica with this budget so they wont have to worry about bvr...we can get meteor when its available for us


I dont think its rafele. India operates that. 

What planes does leonardo make🤔.

What ever they buy, the priority should be to replace those f7. 

But in al honesty i would rather see BAF develop SAM layers, cruise missle and drone strike capabilities than shiny planes.

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## UKBengali

ziaulislam said:


> No..its 4X more expensive
> And is in limited use




Two things:

1. Meteor does not cost 9 million US dollars per unit. You need to read better sources.


As an example of the Meteor's unit cost please see below:

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...eal_for_Brazilian_Gripen_NG_Jets#.YFBvYmT7Sw4

"European company MBDA has won a €200 million contract to supply 100 Meteor air-to-air missiles to be equipped on Brazilian Gripen NG fighters."

2 million Euro per missile comes to 2.3 million US dollars.

2. It is in use by the major military powers of Europe(UK, France, Italy etc) and is in huge scale production as more countries are set to receive batches of Meteor like Brazil and Germany soon. It is irrelevant how many missiles are in service now but the production numbers which define its unit cost.

PS - Pakistan is also facing this deadly missile as India has them in service for its Rafale's already. Meteor airframe and booster may also be used for Japan's next-gen BVRAAM.

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> But the thing here is that near 2030 the economy will be much larger and plus BAF themselves know that they will need a 5th gen aircraft soon soo.
> 
> Turkish 5th gen fighter makes the most sense then , again we don't know how the leadership will change in the BAF.


No, BAF has no urgent need for fifth generation fighters at all. In fact they might have no use for fifth gen ever.
Fifth generation fighters are becoming obsolete even before becoming mainstream due to rapid advancements in ground and airborne radar tech. The F-22 (program abandoned early) and F-35 programs have been utter disasters for Pentagon due to cost blowouts (watch Vox documentary on F-35s). F-35 was meant to be a cost effective replacement for F-16 but now USAF treats it like a Ferrari (google USAF chief's Ferrari remark) and is considering ordering new F-16 Vipers.

Su-57 has been a failure.

The Chinese make tall claims about J-20s and J-31s while no one even buys their J-10s.

The fifth gen programs of other countries are stuck in a limbo.

USAF intends to operate F-16s till 2048 while Leonardo is pledging to support EFTs till 2060.

By 2050, the world will very likely transition to supersonic, autonomous UCAVs sidestepping fifth gen white elephants altogether.

The bottom line is: 4.5 gen fighters will continue to dominate for decades and therefore BAF should go all in to procure as many of them as possible along with ToT.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> No BAF has no urgent need for fifth generation fighters at all. In fact they might have no use for BAF ever.
> Fifth generation fighters are becoming obsolete even before becoming mainstream due to rapid advancements in ground and airborne radar tech. The F-22 (program abandoned early) and F-35 programs have been utter disasters for Pentagon due to cost blowouts (watch Vox documentary on F-35s). F-35 was meant to be a cost effective replacement for F-16 but now USAF treats it like a Ferrari (google USAF chief's Ferrari remark) and is considering ordering new F-16 Vipers.
> 
> Su-57 has been a failure.
> 
> The Chinese make tall claims about J-20s and J-31s while no one even buys their J-10s.
> 
> The fifth gen programs of other countries are stuck in a limbo.
> 
> USAF intends to operate F-16s till 2048 while Leonardo is pledging to support EFTs till 2060.
> 
> By 2050, the world will very likely transition to supersonic, autonomous UCAVs sidestepping fifth gen white elephants altogether.
> 
> The bottom line is: 4.5 gen fighters will continue to dominate for decades and therefore BAF should go all in to procure as many of them as possible along with ToT.


True 5th gen was a gimmick from the beginning. 6th gen will be true 5th gen 
Autonomous, cost effective, stealth 
I bet the Russians will use the same frame and integrate AI into it replacing the onboard pilot.

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## BlackViking

swedish air force gulf stream in cxb today

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> It will get paused by the bureaucracy even if BAF intends to continue procuring fighters.
> The repayments for EFT will be hung over BAF's head by the bureaucracy and BAF will more likely than not meekly cave. Let us just hope (hoping against hope) future BAF leadership is as bold as BA and BN's and manages to realise their demands.
> Add to that, delivery of EFTs will take 3-5 years.
> BAF will continue to remain exposed till then.
> 
> The procurement of EFT is not unjustified but very very poorly timed.
> 
> At this moment we need to ensure round the clock availability of dozens of 4.5 gen fighters. Gripen fits the bill perfectly.
> 
> @Michael Corleone We are very likely to get stuck with, as you call them, "prestige jets" until 11:59 pm on 31st December 2029. As the clock strikes 12 am, BAF will magically introduce 9 additional 4.5 gen squadrons to realise Forces Goal 2030.




There was always going to be a lag from procurement to delivery. 

Both EFT and Gripen suffer from lack of production line capacity.... particularly so grippen which has much much lower ability to scale up on demand.

As to BAF unable to stand its ground with the GOB mandarins.... well what can i possibly say to mitigate such sad state of affairs....

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> No BAF has no urgent need for fifth generation fighters at all. In fact they might have no use for BAF ever.
> Fifth generation fighters are becoming obsolete even before becoming mainstream due to rapid advancements in ground and airborne radar tech. The F-22 (program abandoned early) and F-35 programs have been utter disasters for Pentagon due to cost blowouts (watch Vox documentary on F-35s). F-35 was meant to be a cost effective replacement for F-16 but now USAF treats it like a Ferrari (google USAF chief's Ferrari remark) and is considering ordering new F-16 Vipers.
> 
> Su-57 has been a failure.
> 
> The Chinese make tall claims about J-20s and J-31s while no one even buys their J-10s.
> 
> The fifth gen programs of other countries are stuck in a limbo.
> 
> USAF intends to operate F-16s till 2048 while Leonardo is pledging to support EFTs till 2060.
> 
> By 2050, the world will very likely transition to supersonic, autonomous UCAVs sidestepping fifth gen white elephants altogether.
> 
> The bottom line is: 4.5 gen fighters will continue to dominate for decades and therefore BAF should go all in to procure as many of them as possible along with ToT.



How about working with the Turks do develop our own drones or UCAVs ?


Destranator said:


> No BAF has no urgent need for fifth generation fighters at all. In fact they might have no use for BAF ever.
> Fifth generation fighters are becoming obsolete even before becoming mainstream due to rapid advancements in ground and airborne radar tech. The F-22 (program abandoned early) and F-35 programs have been utter disasters for Pentagon due to cost blowouts (watch Vox documentary on F-35s). F-35 was meant to be a cost effective replacement for F-16 but now USAF treats it like a Ferrari (google USAF chief's Ferrari remark) and is considering ordering new F-16 Vipers.
> 
> Su-57 has been a failure.
> 
> The Chinese make tall claims about J-20s and J-31s while no one even buys their J-10s.
> 
> The fifth gen programs of other countries are stuck in a limbo.
> 
> USAF intends to operate F-16s till 2048 while Leonardo is pledging to support EFTs till 2060.
> 
> By 2050, the world will very likely transition to supersonic, autonomous UCAVs sidestepping fifth gen white elephants altogether.
> 
> The bottom line is: 4.5 gen fighters will continue to dominate for decades and therefore BAF should go all in to procure as many of them as possible along with ToT.



I guess you're right fam , but again idk if corruption will allow BAF to buy more fighters


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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> At this stage, if it is going to be 16 EFTs then so be it. That single squadron would instantly neutralise MAF and give BD overall military superiority over Myanmar again and that is the most important reason for buying a Western fighter this decade.



Guys i think we are forgetting about those 8 upgraded Mig-29 with maritime strike capability. 16 new fighter aren't the only things we will have against MAF.



Michael Corleone said:


> Spend 4 billion instead and we could get TOT like Brazil and start manufacture in bd.



Brazil is actually spending $6.44 billion ($5.44 billion initial contract) and their requirement is 156 including the 36 they ordered initially. Can't say BAF has the same plan though.



Destranator said:


> By 2050, the world will very likely transition to supersonic, autonomous UCAVs sidestepping fifth gen white elephants altogether.



EU and US are already working on sixth generation fighter jet.

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## rEd cHiLLi

Be it Typhoon or Rafale , these fighter will help BAF to accomodate a advanced mechanism to fly these systems.it will enable them to handle advanced tech.

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## Jobless Jack

The Ronin said:


> Guys i think we are forgetting about those 8 upgraded Mig-29 with maritime strike capability. 16 new fighter aren't the only things we will have against MAF.
> 
> 
> 
> Brazil is actually spending $6.44 billion ($5.44 billion initial contract) and their requirement is 156 including the 36 they ordered initially. Can't say BAF has the same plan though.
> 
> 
> 
> EU and US are already working on sixth generation fighter jet.


But ironically Burma is not our main threat.

Its like going to a dr for cancer treatment. But dr treats all your problems like fever pain but does not treat your cheif complaint which is the cancer !

Honestly what i wouldnt do to see 160 gripens in BAF colors. Wtf is BAF smoking why not make a similar deal like brazil?


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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> idk if corruption will allow BAF to buy more fighters


Baf will order another squadron of mrca after recieving the first batch if the current regime continues

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## BlackViking

Jobless Jack said:


> Wtf is BAF smoking why not make a similar deal like brazil?


Cause our requirement is low. Baf will replace those F7 with new jets and might open another one or two squadron max. So we will operate max 5/6 squadron of fighters. So opening a factory line up is not profitable for us. Besides Saab wont go for it. They wont give us tot. At least not before 2030.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Brazil is actually spending $6.44 billion ($5.44 billion initial contract) and their requirement is 156 including the 36 they ordered initially. Can't say BAF has the same plan though


Must be money for additional aircraft then. 36 initial was inked for 4 with tot

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## SpaceMan18

Hold up a second , why does the radar degrees paint up a Bangladesh flag lol ?

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hold up a second , why does the radar degrees paint up a Bangladesh flag lol ?


EFT banglajoddha XD

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## SpaceMan18

Huh , I wonder if we can get these British Frigates


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Huh , I wonder if we can get these British Frigates


2.9 billion for EFT? Lol

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## F-6 enthusiast

A comparison of EFT and Rafale by Hushkit (Unbiased analysis) 
NOTE: there is no clear winner but there are some aspects that EFT and rafale perform better than each other.

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> A comparison of EFT and Rafale by Hushkit (Unbiased analysis)
> NOTE: there is no clear winner but there are some aspects that EFT and rafale perform better than each other.




In essence Eurofighter is better at air-to-air due to it's aerodynamic shape, more powerful engines and larger radar whereas the Rafale is better at air-ground as it can carry a heavier load and was designed as an "omni-role" fighter.

You want the best 4+ gen air-to-air fighter then the Eurofighter is your bird.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> In essence Eurofighter is better at air-to-air due to it's aerodynamic shape, more powerful engines and larger radar whereas the Rafale is better at air-ground as it can carry a heavier load and was designed as an "omni-role" fighter.
> 
> You want the best 4+ gen air-to-air fighter then the Eurofighter is your bird.



BAF chief: No thanks I think I will stick to my very advanced F-7s and super duper advanced Mig-29s

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> In essence Eurofighter is better at air-to-air due to it's aerodynamic shape, more powerful engines and larger radar whereas the Rafale is better at air-ground as it can carry a heavier load and was designed as an "omni-role" fighter.
> 
> You want the best 4+ gen air-to-air fighter then the Eurofighter is your bird.


Indeed 

RAF training > any other European AF training. 
What is more important than typhoons, is that we could have access to it.

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## X-ray Papa

@Michael Corleone 
yo, tell this kid to shut the #### up.

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## leonblack08

*BAF "100" Formation Fly-past*





*Mujib Borsho flypast: "100 Formation" by Bangladesh Air Force (official video)*

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## Indos

X-ray Papa said:


> View attachment 725900
> 
> @Michael Corleone
> yo, tell this kid to shut the #### up.



Is Defense.pk still banned in Bangladesh ?

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## SpaceMan18

leonblack08 said:


> *BAF "100" Formation Fly-past*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Mujib Borsho flypast: "100 Formation" by Bangladesh Air Force (official video)*



Cool , but I'm tired of seeing rusty old F-7s for the 1 billionth time and some dam Mig-29s


X-ray Papa said:


> View attachment 725900
> 
> @Michael Corleone
> yo, tell this kid to shut the #### up.




Idk who tf do he think he is , but in the hood his attitude would get his @ss beat 

Nibba's really think low numbers of twin engine aircraft will be sufficient

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## fallstuff

Indos said:


> Is Defense.pk still banned in Bangladesh ?


Yes, it is. You got to use Tor browser or VPN.

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## Michael Corleone

X-ray Papa said:


> View attachment 725900
> 
> @Michael Corleone
> yo, tell this kid to shut the #### up.


Hey dumb **** just shut up lol 
😂😂😂 
You’re so dumb you don’t even understand the peers who support you lol


SpaceMan18 said:


> Cool , but I'm tired of seeing rusty old F-7s for the 1 billionth time and some dam Mig-29s
> 
> 
> 
> Idk who tf do he think he is , but in the hood his attitude would get his @ss beat
> 
> Nibba's really think low numbers of twin engine aircraft will be sufficient


This is the kind of nigga who believes our 8 migs stand a chance again whole Burmese Air Force

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## BOGGieMan

fallstuff said:


> Yes, it is. You got to use Tor browser or VPN.


You can use a trick install proxifier then go to proxy bd website choose e low ms ip then connnect it and disconnect it using a while then you can use most of the banned websites.


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## BlackViking

T


X-ray Papa said:


> View attachment 725900
> 
> @Michael Corleone
> yo, tell this kid to shut the #### up.


This moron think baf should replace F7 with kfx 
FML 😂😂😂😂

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> This is the kind of nigga who believes our 8 migs stand a chance again whole Burmese Air Force



Well 4 Mig-29s of BAF have already been upgraded to the BM standard and they can fully use the R-27 missile for long-range BVR duels now. The other 4 are in the process of being upgraded.

16 F-7BGIs and 8 Mig-29BMs will be no pushover for MAF and BAF may be able to hold them off for 1-2 weeks.

Remember that 30 or so Mig-29s in Myanmar airforce are of the older 1980s tech, without a modern radar that can fully utilise BVR missiles. The 16 JF-17s and the 12 SU-30Ms will be the real threat to BAF and most are yet to arrive in Myanmar as of this time.


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## CHI RULES

UKBengali said:


> Well 4 Mig-29s of BAF have already been upgraded to the BM standard and they can fully use the R-27 missile for long-range BVR duels now. The other 4 are in the process of being upgraded.
> 
> 16 F-7BGIs and 8 Mig-29BMs will be no pushover for MAF and BAF may be able to hold them off for 1-2 weeks.
> 
> Remember that 30 or so Mig-29s in Myanmar airforce are of the older 1980s tech, without a modern radar that can fully utilise BVR missiles. The 16 JF-17s and the 12 SU-30Ms will be the real threat to BAF and most are yet to arrive in Myanmar as of this time.


One should hope that Rohingiya lives shall become better under new Govt and BD/ Myanmar relations shall also improve. However one should be clear that Myanmar is on move in all defense related matters so they shall not keep themselves limited to few JF17 and MKIs. May either go for modernization of old fleet or may opt for block 3 version of JF17.

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## UKBengali

CHI RULES said:


> One should hope that Rohingiya lives shall become better under new Govt and BD/ Myanmar relations shall also improve. However one should be clear that Myanmar is on move in all defense related matters so they shall not keep themselves limited to few JF17 and MKIs. May either go for modernization of old fleet or may opt for block 3 version of JF17.




There is only so many planes their tiny 75 billion US dollar economy can support.
BD has an economy 4.5 times as large.


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## ziaulislam

SpaceMan18 said:


> By the way do you know the price of J-10C ?
> 
> I saw somewhere it's like 41 million usd , if that's the case we can get 24-25 J-10Cs for 1 billion dollars which is pretty decent.
> 
> I still don't know why we aren't getting J-10Cs to replace our F-7s
> 
> 
> Also most importantly why hasn't BAF set a tender of AWACS ? Without AWACS there's no point of BVR fighters
> 
> View attachment 724988
> 
> This Saab Erieye is perfect for us
> 
> View attachment 724990
> 
> And of course don't forget the Hisar-O


honestly most cost effective deal is SAAB+gripen with decent amount of ToT

most strategically important will be LCA or J10 or jf17(not an option anymore) and you can get credit for it 

most cheapest would be F16 especially if acquired used 

most expensive will be either rafale or typhoon


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## CHI RULES

UKBengali said:


> There is only so many planes their tiny 75 billion US dollar economy can support.
> BD has an economy 4.5 times as large.


They have undocumented economy and clear help from China and few friends behind the veil.

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## Jobless Jack

CHI RULES said:


> They have undocumented economy and clear help from China and few friends behind the veil.


Myanmar is an enemy as long as the awami league is in power. 

All defense purchases should be made with india in mind

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## UKBengali

CHI RULES said:


> They have undocumented economy and clear help from China and few friends behind the veil.





Well I do not think it is that big looking at the state of the country's infrastructure and their living standards.

True China is there to back them up but even they are somewhat wary of being too dependent on China and so buying a lot of weapons from Russia as well.

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## alphapak

It would be much cheaper for Myanmar to buy 16 JF17 Block 3 with PL15 than
BAF's purchase of 16 Eurofighters. MAF could get them for a third of the price for 
what BAF will pay for Eurofighters.

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## Avicenna

Would be nice to give our "friendly" neighbors to the East a Gripen sandwich!






Make it happen BAF!

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## leonblack08

DGDP issued another tender for kh 31A missiles for the upgraded Mig 29 BMs.

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## Destranator

leonblack08 said:


> DGDP issued another tender for kh 31A missiles for the upgraded Mig 29 BMs.


@Michael Corleone @ghost250 BAF tender identifies MiG-29s as of the B variant. This further confirms that they are not of the SE variant.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Well 4 Mig-29s of BAF have already been upgraded to the BM standard and they can fully use the R-27 missile for long-range BVR duels now. The other 4 are in the process of being upgraded.
> 
> 16 F-7BGIs and 8 Mig-29BMs will be no pushover for MAF and BAF may be able to hold them off for 1-2 weeks.
> 
> Remember that 30 or so Mig-29s in Myanmar airforce are of the older 1980s tech, without a modern radar that can fully utilise BVR missiles. The 16 JF-17s and the 12 SU-30Ms will be the real threat to BAF and most are yet to arrive in Myanmar as of this time.


Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if rafale ECM jams those radars and shoots em down. 
besides the migs are nowhere to be seen. You would think they would fly during bongopapa’s birthdayanniversary but nah


Destranator said:


> @Michael Corleone @ghost250 BAF tender identifies MiG-29s as of the B variant. This further confirms that they are not of the SE variant.


I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a parts in galore. What we know is it’s 1st gen non Warsaw Pact export version but b variants had initial radars while SE had n-019ME radar which ours had till now. Which is why I presumed it was SE

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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> Myanmar is an enemy as long as the awami league is in power.
> 
> All defense purchases should be made with india in mind


Why would anything change once BAL is out?


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## SpaceMan18

16 jets still ain't anything without proper SAMs or AWACS/EW

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> 16 jets still ain't anything without proper SAMs or AWACS/EW


I’m not gonna watch that. This nigga claim su35 will come and challenge the EFT whiners

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> 16 jets still ain't anything without proper SAMs or AWACS/EW






16 Gripens or Eurofighters will allow BAF to dominate the MAF with their far better radars, EW systems and Meteor BVR missiles. Remember that BAF will soon have 8 upgraded Mig-29BMs to provide support where their better radars and electronics will turn the planes into proper BVR platfirms.

Yes AWACs are required to fully utilise them but at this stage with an adversary like Myanmar it is still sufficient to neutralise their airforce comfortably.

MRSAMs are desperately required but that is a more general requirement to protect vital infrastructure and military installation, rather than a specific BAF requirement.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> 16 Gripens or Eurofighters will allow BAF to dominate the MAF with their far better radars, EW systems and Meteor BVR missiles. Remember that BAF will soon have 8 upgraded Mig-29BMs to provide support where their better radars and electronics will turn the planes into proper BVR platfirms.
> 
> Yes AWACs are required to fully utilise them but at this stage with an adversary like Myanmar it is still sufficient to neutralise their airforce comfortably.
> 
> MRSAMs are desperately required but that is a more general requirement to protect vital infrastructure and military installation, rather than a specific BAF requirement.



Sure but you kinda forgot about our " buddy " to the West that we have to also deal with


Michael Corleone said:


> I’m not gonna watch that. This nigga claim su35 will come and challenge the EFT whiners



Lol trueeeee


HOLD UP A SEC YOU GOT THAT N WORD PASS ? lucky

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Sure but you kinda forgot about our " buddy " to the West that we have to also deal with



True and BAF needs to approach Sweden for 2-3 Global Eye AWACS. 

Those have 12 hour endurance each and so perfect to provide coverage over BD and into the Bay of Bengal.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> True and BAF needs to approach Sweden for 2-3 Global Eye AWACS.
> 
> Those have 12 hour endurance each and so perfect to provide coverage over BD and into the Bay of Bengal.



True , I'm honestly surprised that BAF hasn't bought an AWACS yet which is weird and do they even have plans for AWACS or EW aircrafts ?

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Would be nice to give our "friendly" neighbors to the East a Gripen sandwich!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make it happen BAF!


Would be great for us. Burma could dream buying these... Swedish won’t sell it to them if Thai and us will operate them at the same time

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Would be great for us. Burma could dream buying these... Swedish won’t sell it to them if Thai and us will operate them at the same time



Gripens were one of the best options , but oh well

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> True , I'm honestly surprised that BAF hasn't bought an AWACS yet which is weird and do they even have plans for AWACS or EW aircrafts ?



That requires some actual joined up thinking which the BAF leadership seems to lack.

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## F-6 enthusiast

leonblack08 said:


> DGDP issued another tender for kh 31A missiles for the upgraded Mig 29 BMs.


I would guess that all 8 Fulcrums will be reconfigured for maritime strike roles ?


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## Jobless Jack

UKBengali said:


> That requires some actual joined up thinking which the BAF leadership seems to lack.


As i said in the past.

BAF and BN should open Their own fighter Command. 

Disband BAF

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if rafale ECM jams those





SpaceMan18 said:


> Gripens were one of the best options , but oh well




Only if they were purchased in numbers does it make sense. Please understand the swedish strategy vis-a-vis russia.

That wont work for us. Small number of Grippen can not hold back IAF raffles but small number of EFT absolutely can.

BD 16 EFT nullifies 36 IAF raffles in defensive mode.....


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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I would guess that all 8 Fulcrums will be reconfigured for maritime strike roles ?




Maybe but if we get EFT the bay is also covered.

The migs should back these up in protecting airspaces where ever necessary.

BD needs to rely I think primarily of a good number of submarines and missile force to prevent any blockade with BAF playing a supporting role.

BD remains vulnerable until we aquire the capability to strike IN andaman bases. If they can be made inoperative BD only needs to look westward for the enemy.

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> Maybe but if we get EFT the bay is also covered.
> 
> The migs should back these up in protecting airspaces where ever necessary.
> 
> BD needs to rely I think primarily of a good number of submarines and missile force to prevent any blockade with BAF playing a supporting role.
> 
> BD remains vulnerable until we aquire the capability to strike IN andaman bases. If they can be made inoperative BD only needs to look westward for the enemy.


Is only 16 enough to hold off IAF + IN + MAF + MN?
While full scale war on two fronts is highly unlikely, India and Mynamar are likely to provide overt or covert support to each other during war with one of them. We need sufficient redundancies in firepower to keep both in check simultaneously.

1/2 sqd EFT + 4/3 sqd Gripen (or J-10C) + existing fleet (Mig-29BM, F-7BG, F-7BGI, Yak-130) supported by AEW&C can offer bare minimum deterrence against both, buying enough time for the West/China to intervene politically.

Air power aside, we need long range rockets and missiles (CM, BM) in large enough quantities to be able to survive enemy first strike and retaliate in kind.

If we can attain sufficient strike capabilities to force the Indian economy into recession, that will be enough to motivate India to avoid confrontation at all costs.

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> Is only 16 enough to hold off IAF + IN + MAF + MN?
> While full scale war on two fronts is highly unlikely, India and Mynamar are likely to provide overt or covert support to each other during war with one of them. We need sufficient redundancies in firepower to keep both in check simultaneously.
> 
> 1/2 sqd EFT + 4/3 sqd Gripen (or J-10C) + existing fleet (Mig-29BM, F-7BG, F-7BGI, Yak-130) supported by AEW&C can offer bare minimum deterrence against both, buying enough time for the West/China to intervene politically.
> 
> Air power aside, we need long range rockets and missiles (CM, BM) in large enough quantities to be able to survive enemy first strike and retaliate in kind.
> 
> If we can attain sufficient strike capabilities to force the Indian economy into recession, that will be enough to motivate India to avoid confrontation at all costs.



No mere 16 EFT can not do that, also no country will come to our aid, we are alone.

A large mobile missile force needs to back up our 3 services, in this i whole heartedly agree. BD needs to be able to hit all of india to achieve true deterrence.

India can not afford a war and neither can we. But we lag behind in every avenue as defense has been traditionally deprioritised with BAF being the absolute worst.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> No mere 16 EFT can not do that, also no country will come to our aid, we are alone.
> 
> A large mobile missile force needs to back up our 3 services, in this i whole heartedly agree. BD needs to be able to hit all of india to achieve true deterrence.
> 
> India can not afford a war and neither can we. But we lag behind in every avenue as defense has been traditionally deprioritised with BAF being the absolute worst.



I guess yeah , but China or Pakistan can come to our aid if India attacks since now China has a reason to show that India is the bad guy in the region and even the Europeans might not support the war anyways.

But yeah Bangladesh needs a much stronger Navy with longer range CMs 300km and secretly 400/500km if we can get them. And of course short range BMs can seriously destroy Myanmar's infrastructure or even give India a bloddy nose.

And a Iron Dome System aka layered air defense is needed also to protect our industrial areas and our key bridges or infrastructure.



But most importantly we need to start making these weapons at home , TOT or just our own program to make our own trusted equipment


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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> As i said in the past.
> 
> BAF and BN should open Their own fighter Command.
> 
> Disband BAF


Too expensive. Better form a Joint Chief's office to slap BAF around and install administrators from BA and BN to reform the organisational culture.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Only if they were purchased in numbers does it make sense. Please understand the swedish strategy vis-a-vis russia.
> 
> That wont work for us. Small number of Grippen can not hold back IAF raffles but small number of EFT absolutely can.
> 
> BD 16 EFT nullifies 36 IAF raffles in defensive mode.....


Elaborate on this a little more. 16 EFT won’t have air superiority or have deterrence if it has to face all of the 36 rafale. 
if anything we will face a mixture of sukhoi and rafale will be about a squadron.

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> do they even have plans for AWACS or EW aircrafts ?


Yes baf will buy awacs within 2025

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## Jobless Jack

Destranator said:


> Too expensive. Better form a Joint Chief's office to slap BAF around and install administrators from BA and BN to reform the organisational culture.


Joint chief wont be formed. Awami league still has nightmares of 1975. 

If JC is formed awami league will think this is empowering an all powerfull military dictator.

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Yes baf will buy awacs within 2025



Hmm any proof ? BAF buys trainers more faster than they do anything else lol


Jobless Jack said:


> Joint chief wont be formed. Awami league still has nightmares of 1975.
> 
> If JC is formed awami league will think this is empowering an all powerfull military dictator.



Lmao if the Army wanted they can threaten the leader rn


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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Yes baf will buy awacs within 2025


Source? "will" asserts a lot of certainty.

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hmm any proof ? BAF buys trainers more faster than they do anything else lol
> 
> 
> Lmao if the Army wanted they can threaten the leader rn


Yes but right now its just the army. What if the airforce and navy and BDR chooses not to follow the new military govt? 

However if there is joint chief all military and paramilitary will fall under his command. Atleast from the point of view of awami league


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Yes but right now its just the army. What if the airforce and navy and BDR chooses not to follow the new military govt?
> 
> However if there is joint chief all military and paramilitary will fall under his command. Atleast from the point of view of awami league



Ah true , I mean the AL is blind anyways lol


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ah true , I mean the AL is blind anyways lol


I never said they are particularly smart😀

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> No mere 16 EFT can not do that, also no country will come to our aid, we are alone.
> 
> A large mobile missile force needs to back up our 3 services, in this i whole heartedly agree. BD needs to be able to hit all of india to achieve true deterrence.
> 
> India can not afford a war and neither can we. But we lag behind in every avenue as defense has been traditionally deprioritised with BAF being the absolute worst.





I do not think that BD needs to go for a ballistic missile force that would anyway take decades to acquire as the MTCR prevents BD buying anything with greater range than 300km.

BA has been smart and has already brought 18 units of the 120km range Kasirga MLRS. There is a longer-range 300km version available and once BD has that it can hit all important Indian military installations that can threaten BD. This will provide the deterrence that BD needs against Indian misadventure.


Michael Corleone said:


> Elaborate on this a little more. 16 EFT won’t have air superiority or have deterrence if it has to face all of the 36 rafale.
> if anything we will face a mixture of sukhoi and rafale will be about a squadron.




Actually the UK is developing the Mk 2 AESA radar for EFT to be ready by 2025 that is a whole generation ahead of the AESA radar that the French Rafale has which is being exported to India.

16 EFTs with Mk2 radar would be able to hold off 36 Indian Rafales.

Remember EFT is a better air-to-air fighter than Rafale due to it's canard-delta design and more powerful engine, that allows greater speed and better manoeuvrability in high-level BVR duels.

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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> Source? "will" asserts a lot of certainty.


By saying "will buy" I meant baf will sign contract. They showed in "shomorasthro prodorshoni" on baf's air defense system plans and awacs was shown there I think. I dont have any source guys. It's a guess and in sha Allah it will come true.

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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> Joint chief wont be formed. Awami league still has nightmares of 1975.
> 
> If JC is formed awami league will think this is empowering an all powerfull military dictator.


I thought they named aziz


UKBengali said:


> Actually the UK is developing the Mk 2 AESA radar for EFT to be ready by 2025 that is a whole generation ahead of the AESA radar that the French Rafale has which is being exported to India.
> 
> 16 EFTs with Mk2 radar would be able to hold off 36 Indian Rafales.
> 
> Remember EFT is a better air-to-air fighter than Rafale due to it's canard-delta design and more powerful engine, that allows greater speed and better manoeuvrability in high-level BVR duels


Tranche 4 has a chance of being sold with that but tranche 3 will come with captor e 
It is also possible UK won’t sell that to third party country. Reason I come to this conclusion is when they reviewed f35 radar they found its generation ahead of captor e and they started work on it without investments from the other partners

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Tranche 4 has a chance of being sold with that but tranche 3 will come with captor e
> It is also possible UK won’t sell that to third party country. Reason I come to this conclusion is when they reviewed f35 radar they found its generation ahead of captor e and they started work on it without investments from the other partners





I think UK will sell its latest version as they are desperate for sales to keep production of the Typhoon going till the Tempest comes into production in early 2030s.

BAF needs to dangle the carrot of follow-up to first 16 to give the UK even more incentive to sell the EFT with Captor-E Mk. 2 radar. Doubt the UK will think there is any national security implications by selling this version to BD as BD will not reveal the technology to anyone else. Only thing I can think of is Indian pressure on Brexit Britain but that is an unknown right now.

EFT with Captor-E Mk 0. radar will be a little worse electronically than the Indian Rafales and so only really useful against Myanmar in small numbers like a squadron of 16.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> EFT with Captor-E Mk 0. radar will be a little worse electronically than the Indian Rafales and so only really useful against Myanmar in small numbers like a squadron of 16.


I wouldn’t know since everything related to this is classified but from articles they said captor e is good but not as much as f35 & f22 radar and hence they started development to make one better than those. 
now I assume mk0 was on par with rafale. Just maybe not as good as the American ones

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> I wouldn’t know since everything related to this is classified but from articles they said captor e is good but not as much as f35 & f22 radar and hence they started development to make one better than those.
> now I assume mk0 was on par with rafale. Just maybe not as good as the American ones



Captor E Mk 0 is behind the level of the Rafale radar as development was prolonged due to 4 nation EFT partnership. France used newer tech for the Rafale AESA radar.

As a rough estimate on tech levels with 1 being the most advanced:

1. F-35 AESA = EFT Captor E Mark 2, although UK claims it should be even better than F-35 radar.

2. Rafale AESA radar. Remember this radar is a follow on to the excellent PESA that was the initial radar for Rafale.

3. F-22 AESA radar = EFT Captor E - Mk 0

So you can clearly see how deadly 16 EFTs with Mk 2 radar would be to India’s 36 Rafales, especially as aerodynamically EFT is a better air-to-air fighter.


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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> EFT with Captor-E Mk 0. radar will be a little worse electronically than the Indian Rafales and so only really useful against Myanmar in small numbers like a squadron of 16.


India fighting two front war with pakistan and china is more likely than bd fighting india in isolation. we will not be fighting a war in isolation. Don't know if the indian leadership is foolish enough to fight a 3 front war. 
Indian defence circles (not losers on a forum ) consider BD a neutral country.
listen to this guy, he speaks some sense (used to work for Jane's)





*We should however maintain minimum deterrence. *

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## BlackViking

UKBengali said:


> EFT with Captor-E Mk 0. radar will be a little worse electronically than the Indian Rafales and so only really useful against Myanmar in small numbers like a squadron of 16.


Whatever baf buys t3 or t4 it doesn't matter anymore...the real deterrence capability will depend on the weapons package we will buy with the jets.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Captor E Mk 0 is behind the level of the Rafale radar as development was prolonged due to 4 nation EFT partnership. France used newer tech for the Rafale AESA radar.
> 
> As a rough estimate on tech levels with 1 being the most advanced:
> 
> 1. F-35 AESA = EFT Captor E Mark 2, although UK claims it should be even better than F-35 radar.
> 
> 2. Rafale AESA radar. Remember this radar is a follow on to the excellent PESA that was the initial radar for Rafale.
> 
> 3. F-22 AESA radar = EFT Captor E - Mk 0
> 
> So you can clearly see how deadly 16 EFTs with Mk 2 radar would be to India’s 36 Rafales, especially as aerodynamically EFT is a better air-to-air fighter.


Again mate this is a speculation at out part we have no test data on radar performance available but yes it should be close to the speculation


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## The Ronin

This is really a good opportunity for Bangladesh especially for air force and navy to buy some of them as stop-gap, upgrade and get a jump start at low cost.





__ https://www.facebook.com/opsroombd/photos/a.2195291837389852/2749811325271231

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## mb444

The Ronin said:


> This is really a good opportunity for Bangladesh especially for air force and navy to buy some of them as stop-gap, upgrade and get a jump start at low cost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/opsroombd/photos/a.2195291837389852/2749811325271231




We should jump and pick up the apaches if there are life left in them, the AWACs and the frigates definately as if we have bought EFTs then all these other platforms would be complimentary. 

Even buy 2 Tranche 1 EFT if they are there at throw away price as trainers....


My fear is the BAF morons might have gone ahead and bought tranche 1 EFT that can not integrate meteors....

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## BlackViking

mb444 said:


> My fear is the BAF morons might have gone ahead and bought tranche 1 EFT that can not integrate meteors..


Not gonna happen bhai. Baf won't buy without AESA and multirole capabilities.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> This is really a good opportunity for Bangladesh especially for air force and navy to buy some of them as stop-gap, upgrade and get a jump start at low cost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/opsroombd/photos/a.2195291837389852/2749811325271231


British changed their mind again on using them to cannibalization?

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> British changed their mind again on using them to cannibalization?


Hope they have. I would take them to augment new EFTs that BAF is very likely getting.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Hope they have. I would take them to augment new EFTs that BAF is very likely getting.



Yep , but are you forgetting about the Type 23 Frigates ? Those can be quite helpful to us since our Navy's modern frigate program is stalling and we desperately need new frigates.







160 million usd


mb444 said:


> We should jump and pick up the apaches if there are life left in them, the AWACs and the frigates definately as if we have bought EFTs then all these other platforms would be complimentary.
> 
> Even buy 2 Tranche 1 EFT if they are there at throw away price as trainers....
> 
> 
> My fear is the BAF morons might have gone ahead and bought tranche 1 EFT that can not integrate meteors....



Apaches , oh great you mean American strings attached to them ?

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## Avicenna

Not sure when this video was actually made.

But looks recent, and is evidence that F-7MB still flying.

(Also, the camo on the -MB looks better IMO than the -BG or -BGI)

Would love to see MRCA in similar colors not to mention the upgraded -BM Fulcrums.

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yep , but are you forgetting about the Type 23 Frigates ? Those can be quite helpful to us since our Navy's modern frigate program is stalling and we desperately need new frigates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 160 million usd
> 
> 
> Apaches , oh great you mean American strings attached to them ?


160m that’s a steal


Avicenna said:


> Not sure when this video was actually made.
> 
> But looks recent, and is evidence that F-7MB still flying.
> 
> (Also, the camo on the -MB looks better IMO than the -BG or -BGI)
> 
> Would love to see MRCA in similar colors not to mention the upgraded -BM Fulcrums.


MB camo changed to bgi. BG too changes to same camo now

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Okay so 8 mi35 attack helicopter has been approved





The Ronin said:


> *Bangladesh looks west for attack helicopters*
> 4th December 2018 - 07:11 GMT | by Neelam Mathews in Delhi
> 
> Bangladesh has approved the purchase of eight Western attack helicopters for the first time, these to be used by the air force to support the army. Consequently, an RfP will be issued by January 2019.
> 
> https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/bangladesh-looks-west-attack-helicopters/
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-looks-west-for-attack-helicopters.590032/#post-10993675





Michael Corleone said:


> Eight more to be bought in 2020


 

@Michael Corleone @The Ronin I was looking for something else but stumbled across these gems.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> @Michael Corleone @The Ronin I was looking for something else but stumbled across these gems.



How about we just wait until we can get the T129s lol


Avicenna said:


> Not sure when this video was actually made.
> 
> But looks recent, and is evidence that F-7MB still flying.
> 
> (Also, the camo on the -MB looks better IMO than the -BG or -BGI)
> 
> Would love to see MRCA in similar colors not to mention the upgraded -BM Fulcrums.



Watch they put Bangubadus face on the new EFTs if we get them lol





Hmm I thought we were getting Hisar Os ? What happened to the news ?


----------



## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> @Michael Corleone @The Ronin I was looking for something else but stumbled across these gems.


😂😂😂
How time flies. 
they’re still hoping for those VVIP helix 3 years later
Ffs

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> 😂😂😂
> How time flies.
> they’re still hoping for those VVIP helix 3 years later
> Ffs



Bruh they never got those helicopters LMAO , what's next Air Force One BanguBandu ?

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## Jobless Jack

F-6 enthusiast said:


> India fighting two front war with pakistan and china is more likely than bd fighting india in isolation. we will not be fighting a war in isolation. Don't know if the indian leadership is foolish enough to fight a 3 front war.
> Indian defence circles (not losers on a forum ) consider BD a neutral country.
> listen to this guy, he speaks some sense (used to work for Jane's)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *We should however maintain minimum deterrence. *


India considers bd a neutral only becaise its busy on 2 fronts.that too as long as awami league is in power.

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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yep , but are you forgetting about the Type 23 Frigates ? Those can be quite helpful to us since our Navy's modern frigate program is stalling and we desperately need new frigates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 160 million usd
> 
> 
> Apaches , oh great you mean American strings attached to them ?



What possible strings can they possibly attach to some really old apaches... not a particularly significant risk....


----------



## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> What possible strings can they possibly attach to some really old apaches... not a particularly significant risk....



I mean if they want to pressure Bangladesh with old Apaches then they will do it , so if we buy Apaches we have to be extra careful


----------



## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> I mean if they want to pressure Bangladesh with old Apaches then they will do it , so if we buy Apaches we have to be extra careful




I suppose..... but these are very very old....probably not worth buying....if we bought them they would be for pittance.... US wont be able to do jack with these as BD can simply can walk away.

These wont be a critical platform.


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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> I suppose..... but these are very very old....probably not worth buying....if we bought them they would be for pittance.... US wont be able to do jack with these as BD can simply can walk away.
> 
> These wont be a critical platform.





mb444 said:


> What possible strings can they possibly attach to some really old apaches... not a particularly significant risk....


US Congress is unpredictable

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> Would love to see MRCA in similar colors not to mention the upgraded -BM Fulcrums.


Don't know whose idea it was to paint them in that blue pattern. Fulcrums are the best looking fighters in the world.


mb444 said:


> What possible strings can they possibly attach to some really old apaches... not a particularly significant risk....


Spare parts maybe ?

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Don't know whose idea it was to paint them in that blue pattern. Fulcrums are the best looking fighters in the world.
> 
> Spare parts maybe ?



These crappy Apaches are so old that US should pay us to take them from UK keep them in service...

You guys do realise these are second hand ancient Apachies. There is absolute no chance US is going to risk BD calling its bluff over something like this. If you want to pull strings you do it against major platform not these almost only good for spare parts apachies. Anyhow I do not see BD being interested in these.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> These crappy Apaches are so old that US should pay us to take them from UK keep them in service...
> 
> You guys do realise these are second hand ancient Apachies. There is absolute no chance US is going to risk BD calling its bluff over something like this. If you want to pull strings you do it against major platform not these almost only good for spare parts apachies. Anyhow I do not see BD being interested in these.


Pocket e poisha na thakle panta bhat o biriyani hishebe khete hoi 😕

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> These crappy Apaches are so old that US should pay us to take them from UK keep them in service...
> 
> You guys do realise these are second hand ancient Apachies. There is absolute no chance US is going to risk BD calling its bluff over something like this. If you want to pull strings you do it against major platform not these almost only good for spare parts apachies. Anyhow I do not see BD being interested in these.


No point in investing in things we cannot afford to maintain and expand on. Better go for Z-10 from China in good numbers with ToT at a friendly price. No doubt Apaches are superior but useless for us due to costs.


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Pocket e poisha na thakle panta bhat o biriyani hishebe khete hoi 😕



Last time was in dhaka they were selling panta bhat and a piece of elish at 600tk a plate during pohela boishak.... utter insult to the poor who can not afford elish and prentious so called panta bhat. BD has gentrified supposed culture the point of idiocy.....

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## Gomig-21

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Don't know whose idea it was to paint them in that blue pattern. Fulcrums are the best looking fighters in the world



WAIT a AM MINUTE. YoU DON TLIKE These lit blue

V






what the killer su35SE in desert casmo0?

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## ziaulislam

UKBengali said:


> Well 4 Mig-29s of BAF have already been upgraded to the BM standard and they can fully use the R-27 missile for long-range BVR duels now. The other 4 are in the process of being upgraded.
> 
> 16 F-7BGIs and 8 Mig-29BMs will be no pushover for MAF and BAF may be able to hold them off for 1-2 weeks.
> 
> Remember that 30 or so Mig-29s in Myanmar airforce are of the older 1980s tech, without a modern radar that can fully utilise BVR missiles. The 16 JF-17s and the 12 SU-30Ms will be the real threat to BAF and most are yet to arrive in Myanmar as of this time.


with no local overhaul services, consider these operable at 30%, India couldn't operate them at 50% with its own overhaul services

Bangladesh if serious interested need 3-4 squadrons of single type with local MRO

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Last time was in dhaka they were selling panta bhat and a piece of elish at 600tk a plate during pohela boishak.... utter insult to the poor who can not afford elish and prentious so called panta bhat. BD has gentrified supposed culture the point of idiocy.....


600tk a plate wtf 
This country is overhyped at times 
But then it was Ophelia boishak and Bangladeshi capitalism at play here. Even in trade fairs I heard this happens

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> 600tk a plate wtf
> This country is overhyped at times
> But then it was Ophelia boishak and Bangladeshi capitalism at play here. Even in trade fairs I heard this happens



Lol I love capitalism but this right here is too much , Bangladeshi people love money more than anything


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Lol I love capitalism but this right here is too much , Bangladeshi people love money more than anything


Money to accumulate but not to spend. They don’t have the heart to spend money

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Money to accumulate but not to spend. They don’t have the heart to spend money



Ah yes Indians , I know those species


----------



## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> Better go for Z-10 from China in good numbers with ToT at a friendly price


Baf won't buy any helicopter from China


----------



## Michael Corleone

Gomig-21 said:


> WAIT a AM MINUTE. YoU DON TLIKE These lit blue
> 
> V
> View attachment 727769
> 
> 
> what the killer su35SE in desert casmo0?
> 
> View attachment 727772


I like the camo on the first one. Second one is too bright for my taste


ziaulislam said:


> with no local overhaul services, consider these operable at 30%, India couldn't operate them at 50% with its own overhaul services
> 
> Bangladesh if serious interested need 3-4 squadrons of single type with local MRO


Well before the upgrades bangladesh flew atleast 4 of them at a time so... 50%?

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> Baf won't buy any helicopter from China


Source?

Regardless, Z-10 is what Bangladesh "should" buy given the options available in the market, what they cost and the strings they come with.

I don't expect much from the BAF dumb idiots. They will most likely buy 16 EFTs and then go to sleep for another 10-20 years.

In fact attack helicopters should only be operated by the army. Since Gen Aziz has already declared that attack helicopters are in BA's consideration, there is hope.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Source?
> 
> Regardless, Z-10 is what Bangladesh "should" buy given the options available in the market, what they cost and the strings they come with.
> 
> I don't expect much from the BAF dumb idiots. They will most likely buy 16 EFTs and then go to sleep for another 10-20 years.
> 
> In fact attack helicopters should only be operated by the army. Since Gen Aziz has already declared that attack helicopters are in BA's consideration, there is hope.



Hopefully we will get Z-10s or T129s


----------



## F-6 enthusiast

Gomig-21 said:


> WAIT a AM MINUTE. YoU DON TLIKE These lit blue
> 
> V
> View attachment 727769
> 
> 
> what the killer su35SE in desert casmo0?
> 
> View attachment 727772


i prefer the desert camo. Historical EAF camos like this

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i prefer the desert camo. Historical EAF camos like this
> View attachment 727975



Israeli Air Force : They look cool , but they look even better when we shoot them down


----------



## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> Israeli Air Force : They look cool , but they look even better when we shoot them down


how about no. Egyptian SAMs made a lot of difference in 1973. Basically forced IDF to think twice before using air assets.


----------



## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> how about no. Egyptian SAMs made a lot of difference in 1973. Basically forced IDF to think twice before using air assets.
> View attachment 727979



True , but the Egyptian pilots were meh


----------



## The Ronin

Can we buy AH-1Z and UH-1Y under EDA?









Dozens Of AH-1Z And UH-1Y Helicopters Will Be Retired As Part Of The USMC's Force Redesign


Around one-fifth of the combined AH-1Z and UH-1Y fleets, which are still very young, are headed for long-term storage in the coming years.




www.thedrive.com







Destranator said:


> Better go for Z-10 from China in good numbers with ToT at a friendly price.



You mean this Z-10? 😂 I don't expect BAF/BA to buy large amount of attack helicopter. So maybe another MRO but notToT.









China confirms Z-10 attack helicopter crashed in Hunan province


A Chinese Z-10 attack helicopter has crashed in an area of Changsha in Hunan province just last week. After images in social media of the damaged aircraft began to circulate on the internet, the Chinese Ministry of Defense confirmed that the Z-10K attack helicopter crashed during a “routine...




defence-blog.com












Destranator said:


> Regardless, Z-10 is what Bangladesh "should" buy given the options available in the market, what they cost and the strings they come with.



Better opt for other sources like Turkey or EU. I see Korea and Ukraine have potential to develop attack helicopter. If we can invest money, we may develop one with them at low cost. Turkey could be a option too but MRO has more chance with TAI and BAF. @Indos does Indonesia have any plan to develop an attack helicopter in future?









South Korean Light Armed Helicopter cleared for active combat


South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) has reported that the new Light Armed Helicopter, commonly known as LAH, has been initially declared fit for combat. DAPA’s evaluation has concluded that the LAH program can transition from the development to the pre-production...




defence-blog.com




.








Ukrainian company unveils new high-speed helicopter at Iran Air Show


Ukrainian company Softex-Aero has unveiled its next-generation VV-2 high-speed helicopter at the Iran Air Show , held in Kish Island in the Persian Gulf from 16-19 November. The VV-2 is a high-speed, single-engine, two seat (tandem) helicopter. It is designed for either piloted or unmanned...




defence-blog.com

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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> Can we buy AH-1Z and UH-1Y under EDA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dozens Of AH-1Z And UH-1Y Helicopters Will Be Retired As Part Of The USMC's Force Redesign
> 
> 
> Around one-fifth of the combined AH-1Z and UH-1Y fleets, which are still very young, are headed for long-term storage in the coming years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean this Z-10? 😂 I don't expect BAF/BA to buy large amount of attack helicopter. So maybe another MRO but notToT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China confirms Z-10 attack helicopter crashed in Hunan province
> 
> 
> A Chinese Z-10 attack helicopter has crashed in an area of Changsha in Hunan province just last week. After images in social media of the damaged aircraft began to circulate on the internet, the Chinese Ministry of Defense confirmed that the Z-10K attack helicopter crashed during a “routine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence-blog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 727976
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better opt for other sources like Turkey or EU. I see Korea and Ukraine have potential to develop attack helicopter. If we can invest money, we may develop one with them at low cost. Turkey could be a option too but MRO has more chance with TAI and BAF. @Indos does Indonesia have any plan to develop an attack helicopter in future?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South Korean Light Armed Helicopter cleared for active combat
> 
> 
> South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) has reported that the new Light Armed Helicopter, commonly known as LAH, has been initially declared fit for combat. DAPA’s evaluation has concluded that the LAH program can transition from the development to the pre-production...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence-blog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian company unveils new high-speed helicopter at Iran Air Show
> 
> 
> Ukrainian company Softex-Aero has unveiled its next-generation VV-2 high-speed helicopter at the Iran Air Show , held in Kish Island in the Persian Gulf from 16-19 November. The VV-2 is a high-speed, single-engine, two seat (tandem) helicopter. It is designed for either piloted or unmanned...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence-blog.com




Hmm Turkey seems like a good option for us now , I'm not sure about China or Korea


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i prefer the desert camo. Historical EAF camos like this
> View attachment 727975


Now I see where the name comes from f6 enthusiast 🤨😉
You must know a lot about it I reckon, familiar with the mig 19 too?


The Ronin said:


> Better opt for other sources like Turkey or EU. I see Korea and Ukraine have potential to develop attack helicopter. If we can invest money, we may develop one with them at low cost. Turkey could be a option too but MRO has more chance with TAI and BAF. @Indos does Indonesia have any plan to develop an attack helicopter in future?


I would not develop anything except porno with the Ukrainians. Nothing against the people but the govt and administration is corrupt and inefficient. You’ll sink billions with little to show for


SpaceMan18 said:


> True , but the Egyptian pilots were meh


Terrible meh is putting it kindly 
Infact most gulf pilots were terrible 
Except ihsan shurdom the only guy I reckon shot down something

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## Indos

The Ronin said:


> Can we buy AH-1Z and UH-1Y under EDA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dozens Of AH-1Z And UH-1Y Helicopters Will Be Retired As Part Of The USMC's Force Redesign
> 
> 
> Around one-fifth of the combined AH-1Z and UH-1Y fleets, which are still very young, are headed for long-term storage in the coming years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean this Z-10? 😂 I don't expect BAF/BA to buy large amount of attack helicopter. So maybe another MRO but notToT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China confirms Z-10 attack helicopter crashed in Hunan province
> 
> 
> A Chinese Z-10 attack helicopter has crashed in an area of Changsha in Hunan province just last week. After images in social media of the damaged aircraft began to circulate on the internet, the Chinese Ministry of Defense confirmed that the Z-10K attack helicopter crashed during a “routine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence-blog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 727976
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better opt for other sources like Turkey or EU. I see Korea and Ukraine have potential to develop attack helicopter. If we can invest money, we may develop one with them at low cost. Turkey could be a option too but MRO has more chance with TAI and BAF. @Indos does Indonesia have any plan to develop an attack helicopter in future?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South Korean Light Armed Helicopter cleared for active combat
> 
> 
> South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) has reported that the new Light Armed Helicopter, commonly known as LAH, has been initially declared fit for combat. DAPA’s evaluation has concluded that the LAH program can transition from the development to the pre-production...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence-blog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian company unveils new high-speed helicopter at Iran Air Show
> 
> 
> Ukrainian company Softex-Aero has unveiled its next-generation VV-2 high-speed helicopter at the Iran Air Show , held in Kish Island in the Persian Gulf from 16-19 November. The VV-2 is a high-speed, single-engine, two seat (tandem) helicopter. It is designed for either piloted or unmanned...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence-blog.com



We had that plan before but never got funding from government, I will give you the model as soon as I can access my computer again, but IMO better to use drone as attack hellicopter can get shot by short range missile easily..

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## Philip the Arab

Maybe Bangladesh can upgrade Skyguard in the future to Skynex for airbase protection from Rheinmetall. It will use a Skyknight anti CRAM/PGM/CM from a UAE company.

It will probably be the best air defense SHORAD in the world for a little bit, sixty missiles in each launcher and up to three launchers per Skynex. Twenty missiles in the air at the same time per launcher(Total eighty simultaneous interceptions) and 16 launched in 3.5 seconds.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Now I see where the name comes from f6 enthusiast 🤨😉
> You must know a lot about it I reckon, familiar with the mig 19 too?
> 
> I would not develop anything except porno with the Ukrainians. Nothing against the people but the govt and administration is corrupt and inefficient. You’ll sink billions with little to show for
> 
> Terrible meh is putting it kindly
> Infact most gulf pilots were terrible
> Except ihsan shurdom the only guy I reckon shot down something


All info I know about fighters is from DCS world but the f-6 is something special.




Can you identify the pilot standing next to the F-6 in this picture ? (Hint : very famous guy in Bangladesh) 
you will get a virtual biriyani if you can find his name

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> All info I know about fighters is from DCS world but the f-6 is something special.
> View attachment 728053
> 
> Can you identify the pilot standing next to the F-6 in this picture ? (Hint : very famous guy in Bangladesh)
> you will get a virtual biriyani if you can find his name
> 
> View attachment 728054


Riaz got his name from reverse image search. Now where is my biriyani?

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## leonblack08

F-6 enthusiast said:


> All info I know about fighters is from DCS world but the f-6 is something special.
> View attachment 728053
> 
> Can you identify the pilot standing next to the F-6 in this picture ? (Hint : very famous guy in Bangladesh)
> you will get a virtual biriyani if you can find his name
> 
> View attachment 728054



Is that Riyaz?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Nothing against the people but the govt and administration is corrupt and inefficient. You’ll sink billions with little to show for


has the war in the east died down ? 


Philip the Arab said:


> Riaz got his name from reverse image search. Now where is my biriyani?


you'll have to be content with this , im afraid 






leonblack08 said:


> Is that Riyaz?


correct

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> you'll have to be content with this , im afraid


When you are South Asian and you're white wife tries making Biriyani 🤣

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Nothing against the people but the govt and administration is corrupt and inefficient. You’ll sink billions with little to show for


has the war in Ukraine died down ? I assume you live in Kiev so it must be pretty chill out there. 
All I know about Ukraine is that they inherited industries from the USSR. It's a shame they aren't able to produce the BM oplot tanks quickly enough to keep up with foreign orders.

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> has the war in Ukraine died down ? I assume you live in Kiev so it must be pretty chill out there.
> All I know about Ukraine is that they inherited industries from the USSR. It's a shame they aren't able to produce the BM oplot tanks quickly enough to keep up with foreign orders.


Rife corruption and inferior products limit their defense industry.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Philip the Arab said:


> Rife corruption and inferior products limit their defense industry.





Philip the Arab said:


> Rife corruption and inferior products limit their defense industry.


their modern stuff isn't bad , they just can't make things fast enough and on time i suppose

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> their modern stuff isn't bad , they just can't make things fast enough and on time i suppose


Inferior to Western and Russian systems and in a lot of cases made in substandard qualities. Their technology is more or less not advancing, look at the Neptune missile it is basically a direct copy of the KH-35.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Philip the Arab said:


> Inferior to Western and Russian systems and in a lot of cases made in substandard qualities. Their technology is more or less not advancing, look at the Neptune missile it is basically a direct copy of the KH-35.


They make good Gas turbine engines, rocket engines, diesel and jet engines. Designing engines is something even the big players have trouble.

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> They make good Gas turbine engines, rocket engines, diesel and jet engines. Designing engines is something even the big players have trouble.


Fair enough, I don't see them as being an advanced defense industry ever but they have a good niche market they can fill.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> All info I know about fighters is from DCS world but the f-6 is something special.
> View attachment 728053
> 
> Can you identify the pilot standing next to the F-6 in this picture ? (Hint : very famous guy in Bangladesh)
> you will get a virtual biriyani if you can find his name
> 
> View attachment 728054


Riyaz 😆😆😆


F-6 enthusiast said:


> has the war in the east died down ?


Supposedly there’s a state of war. You know how it is with separatists... ran out of tanks and aircraft so now small arms fire in remote locations here and there. Nothing that hinders public life in cities

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> has the war in Ukraine died down ? I assume you live in Kiev so it must be pretty chill out there.
> All I know about Ukraine is that they inherited industries from the USSR. It's a shame they aren't able to produce the BM oplot tanks quickly enough to keep up with foreign orders.


They got a good tank here tbh. In fact too good. Armor Protection atleast on par with if not more than western tanks except maybe depleted uranium blocks on US M1A2 but too expensive and the tank factory made only a few I heard. They inherited lots of industries but most are closed due to variety of factors, corruption, outdated tech, inefficiency, not enough funds, no contracts list goes on and on. 
I live on the eastern part of the country... the city I live in used to make Satan 1 ballistic missiles, basically known for ballistic missiles and rocket tech since soviet times... Kharkiv is more of a fighter design city... mig etc
A mig office existed few blocks down the road from my home now theyre building a big building front of it... no activity I reckon since soviet times since I only saw the parking rented out to car dealers. 





waiting for summer, this is my favorite place to commute through in summers but I usually go through this place more in the winters for some reason. 
the 3 rockets were made to celebrate their manufacturing capabilities and company anniversary but I never heard of any order placed in my 5 years here nor did I see anything being shipped. Manufacturing is basically dead. they’re consulted for design work by companies in US though I heard.


Philip the Arab said:


> Fair enough, I don't see them as being an advanced defense industry ever but they have a good niche market they can fill.


They have a 4.5 generation fighter based on mig 29 in development for a few years now. Don’t know if it’s cancelled or not. But I reckon basically a mig 35 comparable

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## Indos

Indos said:


> We had that plan before but never got funding from government, I will give you the model as soon as I can access my computer again, but IMO better to use drone as attack hellicopter can get shot by short range missile easily..



Here, it is a plan that has been around 8 years old





@The Ronin

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> Here, it is a plan that has been around 8 years old
> 
> View attachment 728144
> 
> @The Ronin
> View attachment 728145
> 
> View attachment 728146



Doesn't look too bad , so Indonesia is doing this alone or with a JV ?


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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> Doesn't look too bad , so Indonesia is doing this alone or with a JV ?



Alone, Indonesia Aerospace has experience in producing Caracal and Bell 412. The design will be based on Bell 412. But since government is not interested in funding the program so this just stop on the design phase, without further development to make any real prototype.

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> Alone, Indonesia Aerospace has experience in producing Caracal and Bell 412. The design will be based on Bell 412. But since government is not interested in funding the program so this just stop on the design phase, without further development to make any real prototype.



Hmm I wonder if Indonesia can join Korea to make a attack helicopter , or will Indonesia work with Turkey ?


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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hmm I wonder if Indonesia can join Korea to make a attack helicopter , or will Indonesia work with Turkey ?



There is no grand plan on developing any attack helicopter, at least until 2024. Beside Black Eagle Male UCAV and KFX/IFX program (renegotiation/uncertain), these are the rest of programs, that we plan to realize until 2024

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> There is no grand plan on developing any attack helicopter, at least until 2024. Beside Black Eagle Male UCAV and KFX/IFX program.
> 
> These are the rest of programs, that we plan to realize until 2024
> 
> View attachment 728216




Man this is not fair lol , how does Indonesia get to work on their own aircraft development and make their aviation industry more experienced while my nation of Bangladesh all they can do is state that they will make a fighter jet or a drone etc


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## Shorisrip

SpaceMan18 said:


> Man this is not fair lol , how does Indonesia get to work on their own aircraft development and make their aviation industry more experienced while my nation of Bangladesh all they can do is state that they will make a fighter jet or a drone etc



Indonesians have a higher standard of living and are more developed, not to mention a large land mass and abundant natural resources. Bangladesh is probably in between half a decade to a decade or so behind Indonesia in development, and the country has limited natural resources and a large population in a small landmass. There are more important priorities for the government than to invest in expensive R&D. Private companies need to come up in the future and take the helm.

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## SpaceMan18

Shorisrip said:


> Indonesians have a higher standard of living and are more developed, not to mention a large land mass and abundant natural resources. Bangladesh is probably in between half a decade to a decade or so behind Indonesia in development, and the country has limited natural resources and a large population in a small landmass. There are more important priorities for the government than to invest in expensive R&D. Private companies need to come up in the future and take the helm.



True , but DAMMIT we're suppose to be trying harder to educate our people and also industrialize quick if we want to take this development seriously. 

In Bangladesh people don't look up to Einstein or some Bangladeshi scientist they look up to Bangubandu sadly

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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> Source?
> 
> Regardless, Z-10 is what Bangladesh "should" buy given the options available in the market, what they cost and the strings they come with.
> 
> I don't expect much from the BAF dumb idiots. They will most likely buy 16 EFTs and then go to sleep for another 10-20 years.
> 
> In fact attack helicopters should only be operated by the army. Since Gen Aziz has already declared that attack helicopters are in BA's consideration, there is hope.


There is a reason Pakistan is still waiting for t129. They can easily buy z10 whenever they want but still not going for it. They are keeping it as a last resort. Z10 might look damn good on papers but its actually not that good.

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## Destranator

BlackViking said:


> There is a reason Pakistan is still waiting for t129. They can easily buy z10 whenever they want but still not going for it. They are keeping it as a last resort. Z10 might look damn good on papers but its actually not that good.


Pakistan is not a standard bearer for attack helicopter operators.
T-129 will not be an option for anybody until Turkey manages to build their own reliable engine.

Z-10 may not be the best but it is the only one that can possibly come at a cost affordable to BD, significant levels of ToT and zero strings. As with fighter jets, attack helicopters are needed in numbers.
BA has 10 Area Commands (each with 4-5 Infantry/armoured brigades that can benefit from attack helicopter support.).

Given that we have so many fighting formations, even 100 attack helicopters are not too many to have.
Given our soft soil and riverine landscape making emergency troop reinforcement very difficult, attack helicopters will be absolute game changers.

While Apaches are the best in terms of quality and specs, I am quite happy we are not getting them as we would have gotten stuck with only a dozen of them max due to costs.

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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> Pakistan is not a standard bearer for attack helicopter operators.
> T-129 will not be an option for anybody until Turkey manages to build their own reliable engine.
> 
> Z-10 may not be the best but it is the only one that can possibly come at a cost affordable to BD, significant levels of ToT and zero strings. As with fighter jets, attack helicopters are needed in numbers.
> BA has 10 Area Commands (each with 4-5 Infantry/armoured brigades that can benefit from attack helicopter support.).
> 
> Given that we have so many fighting formations, even 100 attack helicopters are not too many to have.
> Given our soft soil and riverine landscape making emergency troop reinforcement very difficult, attack helicopters will be absolute game changers.
> 
> While Apaches are the best in terms of quality and specs, I am quite happy we are not getting them as we would have gotten stuck with only a dozen of them max due to costs.


Bro army wont buy more than 20 by 2030..whether its z10 or Apache or t129. Army and Baf, no one is worried about numbers. And I dont have any idea why baf is wasting money on attack helicopters.

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> Pakistan is not a standard bearer for attack helicopter operators.
> T-129 will not be an option for anybody until Turkey manages to build their own reliable engine.
> 
> Z-10 may not be the best but it is the only one that can possibly come at a cost affordable to BD, significant levels of ToT and zero strings. As with fighter jets, attack helicopters are needed in numbers.
> BA has 10 Area Commands (each with 4-5 Infantry/armoured brigades that can benefit from attack helicopter support.).
> 
> Given that we have so many fighting formations, even 100 attack helicopters are not too many to have.
> Given our soft soil and riverine landscape making emergency troop reinforcement very difficult, attack helicopters will be absolute game changers.
> 
> While Apaches are the best in terms of quality and specs, I am quite happy we are not getting them as we would have gotten stuck with only a dozen of them max due to costs.



Warfare is changing... in the new reality of surveillance, loitering and attack drones platforms such as helios and tanks i believe will soon be things of the past. They are just too slow.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> Warfare is changing... in the new reality of surveillance, loitering and attack drones platforms such as helios and tanks i believe will soon be things of the past. They are just too slow.



I still wonder why tf BA or BAF isn't getting Turkish Drones


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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> I still wonder why tf BA or BAF isn't getting Turkish Drones


Army is getting Turkish combat drone soon.

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Army is getting Turkish combat drone soon.



Any proof man ? I remember hearing us getting Wing Loong 2 drones and it's been like forever and we haven't heard anything


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## T-SaGe

BlackViking said:


> Army is getting Turkish combat drone soon.


I didn't want to share it here, as it's rumor-level. However, as far as I understand, there are some rumors on the Bangladesh side as well. In the near future, Bangladesh may become one of the countries producing their own tactical armed UAVs.

Cooperation development work on aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, attack helicopters, air defense systems, armored vehicles, artillery and mlr systems, small and medium-sized warships, radar and electronic warfare systems, radio-communication and cryptography equipment and smart ammunitions continues extensively, between Bengladesh and TR.

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> Any proof man ? I remember hearing us getting Wing Loong 2 drones and it's been like forever and we haven't heard anything


We are talking about army here man...not baf. So it will happen soon. Even they will recieve attack helicopter before baf. Go through army drone tender pdf. Check their requirements. Only Turkish drones (specifically Anka s) matches their requirements. And army already evaluated Turkish drones.


SpaceMan18 said:


> Any proof man ? I remember hearing us getting Wing Loong 2 drones and it's been like forever and we haven't heard anything





T-SaGe said:


> Cooperation development work on aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, attack helicopters, air defense systems, armored vehicles, artillery and mlr systems, small and medium-sized warships, radar and electronic warfare systems, radio-communication and cryptography equipment and smart ammunitions continues extensively, between Bengladesh and TR.


Turkey already offered afv to army and the rumor is they are ready to provide tot.

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## aliaselin

Lessons from BD air Force ordered J7BIG: no army will place an order for brand new air planes as stop gap


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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> We are talking about army here man...not baf. So it will happen soon. Even they will recieve attack helicopter before baf. Go through army drone tender pdf. Check their requirements. Only Turkish drones (specifically Anka s) matches their requirements. And army already evaluated Turkish drones.
> 
> 
> Turkey already offered afv to army and the rumor is they are ready to provide tot.



So do you know when will we receive them ?


T-SaGe said:


> I didn't want to share it here, as it's rumor-level. However, as far as I understand, there are some rumors on the Bangladesh side as well. In the near future, Bangladesh may become one of the countries producing their own tactical armed UAVs.
> 
> Cooperation development work on aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, attack helicopters, air defense systems, armored vehicles, artillery and mlr systems, small and medium-sized warships, radar and electronic warfare systems, radio-communication and cryptography equipment and smart ammunitions continues extensively, between Bengladesh and TR.



Bangladesh will hopefully make their own armed UAVs and soon will move on to satellites and aircrafts such as trainers or maybe helicopters

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> So do you know when will we receive them ?


Sorry man no idea about that

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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> So do you know when will we receive them ?
> 
> 
> Bangladesh will hopefully make their own armed UAVs and soon will move on to satellites and aircrafts such as trainers or maybe helicopters




We need to be realistic and not talk things up.

BD armed forces are more or less complete cowards. They do not have the back bone for any kind of fight as the rohingya debacle proved.

As BD reaches 50 years what do we really make by ourselves.... we are not even self sufficient in small arms.... the machine tool factory of BD army at best produces a few things of 70s tech.

At the end of the day the defense forces must have concrete threat preception and then a plan to mitigate that threat. BA just a few years ago announced it does not consider india a threat and it has proved on the ground it wont fight the burmese. 

Let us not lionise our forces, they really have not done anything at all in their history to deserve much respect. Technical innovation wont come from these guys, if GOB opens up defense sector to private companies we may see some movement but otherwise i am afraid the proposition is totally unrealistic.

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## Michael Corleone

T-SaGe said:


> I didn't want to share it here, as it's rumor-level. However, as far as I understand, there are some rumors on the Bangladesh side as well. In the near future, Bangladesh may become one of the countries producing their own tactical armed UAVs.
> 
> Cooperation development work on aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, attack helicopters, air defense systems, armored vehicles, artillery and mlr systems, small and medium-sized warships, radar and electronic warfare systems, radio-communication and cryptography equipment and smart ammunitions continues extensively, between Bengladesh and TR.


As long as you guys teach us how to build that mean tank of yours. I love what’s going on

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## Shorisrip

Michael Corleone said:


> As long as you guys teach us how to build that mean tank of yours. I love what’s going on



It's a beast, but the highest unit cost of any tank to date. Turkish Defence Industry is really heating up though, kudos to them.

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## Michael Corleone

Shorisrip said:


> It's a beast, but the highest unit cost of any tank to date. Turkish Defence Industry is really heating up though, kudos to them.


Mostly due to the engine and volume issue. More orders and indigenous engines should reduce cost. I heard the engine development has made some progress

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> Mostly due to the engine and volume issue. More orders and indigenous engines should reduce cost. I heard the engine development has made some progress



I wonder why Bangladesh isn't getting any K-2 Black Panter MBTs from Korea ?


mb444 said:


> We need to be realistic and not talk things up.
> 
> BD armed forces are more or less complete cowards. They do not have the back bone for any kind of fight as the rohingya debacle proved.
> 
> As BD reaches 50 years what do we really make by ourselves.... we are not even self sufficient in small arms.... the machine tool factory of BD army at best produces a few things of 70s tech.
> 
> At the end of the day the defense forces must have concrete threat preception and then a plan to mitigate that threat. BA just a few years ago announced it does not consider india a threat and it has proved on the ground it wont fight the burmese.
> 
> Let us not lionise our forces, they really have not done anything at all in their history to deserve much respect. Technical innovation wont come from these guys, if GOB opens up defense sector to private companies we may see some movement but otherwise i am afraid the proposition is totally unrealistic.




True , Bangladesh needs to wake up and start making it's own weapons to it's own engines. We should first start making small arms like handguns to rifles. 

If Israel can do it why tf can't we ? Just like Israel we're surrounded by hostile neighbors 

We really need to step up our game , I don't care how much it costs


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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> Warfare is changing... in the new reality of surveillance, loitering and attack drones platforms such as helios and tanks i believe will soon be things of the past. They are just too slow.


We are talking about Bangladesh Armed Forces here who still use toasters to scan and upload Request for Tender documents and have not heard of Acrobat DC. I don't expect them to achieve something technological that even the US military have not achieved.

They are still buying new tanks. Anyone who has studied modern wars that took place in our land knows how useless tanks are.


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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> We are talking about Bangladesh Armed Forces here who still use toasters to scan and upload Request for Tender documents and have not heard of Acrobat DC. I don't expect them to achieve something technological that even the US military have not achieved.
> 
> They are still buying new tanks. Anyone who has studied modern wars that took place in our land knows how useless tanks are.




Tanks have their place as part of a balanced arsenal.

BD needs a few hundred modern tanks in case of any problems with India in the NW sector that is tank country. No amount of UAVs and attack helicopters can replace having that 50-60 ton armoured vehicle that can fire 6-12 shells a minute 3-4km away to knock out enemy armoured vehicles.

Anyway the latest tanks that BD has purchased is the 30-35 tonne Chinese Type-15 Tank that is ideal to navigate the delta that is BD.

Let us not put BA and BN down to the level of BAF here.

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> I wonder why Bangladesh isn't getting any K-2 Black Panter MBTs from Korea


Way to expensive for what it offers and engine issues again


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> Way to expensive for what it offers and engine issues again




I am not sure whether such a heavy tank would even be suitable for BD terrain, even in the NW sector that is the most suitable for tank warfare.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Tanks have their place as part of a balanced arsenal.
> 
> BD needs a few hundred modern tanks in case of any problems with India in the NW sector that is tank country. No amount of UAVs and attack helicopters can replace having that 50-60 ton armoured vehicle that can fire 6-12 shells a minute 3-4km away to knock out enemy armoured vehicles.
> 
> Anyway the latest tanks that BD has purchased is the 30-35 tonne Chinese Type-15 Tank that is ideal to navigate the delta that is BD.
> 
> Let us not put BA and BN down to the level of BAF here.


Enemy tanks can be easily taken out by land and airborne ATGMs and guided artillery.

BD already has more than enough tanks to defend NW. All they need is back up by artillery and air support.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> I am not sure whether such a heavy tank would even be suitable for BD terrain, even in the NW sector that is the most suitable for tank warfare.


Korea isn’t a tank haven either. It’s arguably same if not worse

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> We are talking about Bangladesh Armed Forces here who still use toasters to scan and upload Request for Tender documents and have not heard of Acrobat DC. I don't expect them to achieve something technological that even the US military have not achieved.
> 
> They are still buying new tanks. Anyone who has studied modern wars that took place in our land knows how useless tanks are.



If the APS system is really effective, tank will still have much relevant on modern warfare.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Enemy tanks can be easily taken out by land and airborne ATGMs and guided artillery.
> 
> BD already has more than enough tanks to defend NW. All they need is back up by artillery and air support.





As for NW, BD already has the numbers for sure and that is why I said it needs a few hundred heavy tanks for this sector and it was not a reference to any current lack of numbers. These tanks can be supported by UAVs and attack helicopters in any confrontation with India.

There is a reason no major military is thinking of phasing them out altogether.

The US is designing the successor to the Abrams tank right now

Yes the world does not need as many tanks as in the past, but in small numbers they serve a very useful role that cannot be totally replaced by other platforms.

BA should reduce it's heavy tank platforms to 2-3 hundred modern tanks for the NW sector and then add numbers to the Chinese tank order so it has around 2-300 light tanks for the rest of the country.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> As for NW, BD already has the numbers for sure and that is why I said it needs a few hundred heavy tanks for this sector and it was not a reference to any current lack of numbers. These tanks can be supported by UAVs and attack helicopters in any confrontation with India.
> 
> There is a reason no major military is thinking of phasing them out altogether.
> 
> The US is designing the successor to the Abrams tank right now
> 
> Yes the world does not need as many tanks as in the past, but in small numbers they serve a very useful role that cannot be totally replaced by other platforms.
> 
> BA should reduce it's heavy tank platforms to 2-3 hundred modern tanks for the NW sector and then add numbers to the Chinese tank order so it has around 2-300 light tanks for the rest of the country.



I'd rather replace our MBT-2000s with K-2s lol


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## Destranator

Indos said:


> If the APS system is really effective, tank will still have much relevant on modern warfare.


APS might save lives but can't save from immobilisation. The infantry would then get tied up in defensive manoeuvres to protect these useless multimillion dollar white elephants. Bangladesh is mostly untankable and therefore any spending on tanks should be deprioritised. We have way too many critical deficiencies to address. Spending money on tanks is taking funding away from those areas.


UKBengali said:


> As for NW, BD already has the numbers for sure and that is why I said it needs a few hundred heavy tanks for this sector and it was not a reference to any current lack of numbers. These tanks can be supported by UAVs and attack helicopters in any confrontation with India.
> 
> There is a reason no major military is thinking of phasing them out altogether.
> 
> The US is designing the successor to the Abrams tank right now
> 
> Yes the world does not need as many tanks as in the past, but in small numbers they serve a very useful role that cannot be totally replaced by other platforms.
> 
> BA should reduce it's heavy tank platforms to 2-3 hundred modern tanks for the NW sector and then add numbers to the Chinese tank order so it has around 2-300 light tanks for the rest of the country.


I agree with your assessment. Given that there is limited use for tanks in BD, we should not prioritise Armour modernisation over other aspects.

In the event of a war with India, a lot of other assets (fighter jets, artillery, etc.) would have to be deployed before a tank battle ensues.
India would not be foolish enough to invade BD before pounding all our fancy assets to smithereens.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> APS might save lives but can't save from immobilisation. Infantry will then get tied up in defensive manoeuvres to protect these useless white elephants. Bangladesh is mostly untankable and therefore any spending on tanks should be deprioritised. We have way too many critical deficiencies to address. Spending money on tanks is taking funding away from those areas.
> 
> I agree with your assessment. Given that there is limited use for tanks in BD, we should not prioritise Armour modernisation over other aspects.
> 
> In the event of a war with India, a lot of other assets (fighter jets, artillery, etc.) would have to be deployed before a tank battle ensuses.



Are you forgetting about the Navy ? We can't lose our waters lol


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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Are you forgetting about the Navy ? We can't lose our waters lol


My assessment was focused on a battle concentrated at the NW frontier but you are right in that navy modernisation warrants precedence over procuring more heavy, slow, useless pieces of junk.

You tell me, should we spend money expediting the indigenous frigate program that will help project power over BoB or buying obsolete crap that will likely never see war?

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> My assessment was focused on a battle concentrated at the NW frontier but you are right in that navy modernisation warrants precedence over procuring more heavy, slow, useless pieces of junk.
> 
> You tell me, should we spend money expediting the indigenous frigate program that will help project power over BoB or buying obsolete crap that will likely never see war?



Yeah lol , Light tanks are good enough but maybe we can get better APCs then the Btr-82a. 

And for the Navy Bangladesh needs a lot of subs along with frigates and maybe 2-4 destroyers and a carrier way into the future to truly be a blue water navy.


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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yeah lol , Light tanks are good enough but maybe we can get better APCs then the Btr-82a.
> 
> And for the Navy Bangladesh needs a lot of subs along with frigates and maybe 2-4 destroyers and a carrier way into the future to truly be a blue water navy.



We need lots of subs.... but a carrier battle group for what... they are very much a slow moving target.. very very expensive to maintain... we in my opinion do not need that nor can we efford it and nor is it a best use of resources ... we need to nimble and deadly.... 6-8 proper subs and 10-12 mini subs backed up by landbased sams covering the whole of the bay and beyond onto international shipping lines will ensure no blocade is envisaged by anyone... infact i am probably overestimating the numbers 4 subs and 8 mini subs probably will do the job fine.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> We need lots of subs.... but a carrier battle group for what... they are very much a slow moving target.. very very expensive to maintain... we in my opinion do not need that nor can we efford it and not is it a best use of resources in my opinion... we need to nimble and deadly.... 6-8 proper subs and 10-12 mini subs backed up by landbased sams covering the whole of the bay and beyond onto international shipping lines will ensure no blocade is envisaged by anyone... infact i am probably overestimating the numbers 4 subs and 8 mini subs probably will do the job fine.


I would say 16 frigates, 8 subs and maybe 2-4 destroyers are enough for Bangladesh navy

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> We need lots of subs.... but a carrier battle group for what... they are very much a slow moving target.. very very expensive to maintain... we in my opinion do not need that nor can we efford it and nor is it a best use of resources ... we need to nimble and deadly.... 6-8 proper subs and 10-12 mini subs backed up by landbased sams covering the whole of the bay and beyond onto international shipping lines will ensure no blocade is envisaged by anyone... infact i am probably overestimating the numbers 4 subs and 8 mini subs probably will do the job fine.


Subs would be the best investment. My opinion is that Submarines are an Asymmetric response to an opponent with a massive surface fleet. For one submarine , you need to allocate ASW aircraft , helos , subchasers (idk if they are a thing anymore) and many other surface vessels that you could have otherwise used against your opponent.

The glimmer of hope is that the sub-base built in Cox's Bazar could house more than just two subs. In addition to this, the BN spokesperson explicitly said that the two subs we have a dual role of training and subsurface warfare. Implying that more subs are to come. My thoughts

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Subs would be the best investment. My opinion is that Submarines are an Asymmetric response to an opponent with a massive surface fleet. For one submarine , you need to allocate ASW aircraft , helos , subchasers (idk if they are a thing anymore) and many other surface vessels that you could have otherwise used against your opponent.
> 
> The glimmer of hope is that the sub-base built in Cox's Bazar could house more than just two subs. In addition to this, the BN spokesperson explicitly said that the two subs we have a dual role of training and subsurface warfare. Implying that more subs are to come. My thoughts


They won’t drop 2 billion dollars on a base that can only host 2 submarines... what I would worry about is if air defense of the base can be ensured because that’s when submarine will be at its most vulnerable state

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> They won’t drop 2 billion dollars on a base that can only host 2 submarines... what I would worry about is if air defense of the base can be ensured because that’s when submarine will be at its most vulnerable state


Navy will get MRSAM before BAF. 


Michael Corleone said:


> 2-4 destroyers are enough


Destroyers will be turned into floating officers hotels like the IJN Yamato.

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Subs would be the best investment. My opinion is that Submarines are an Asymmetric response to an opponent with a massive surface fleet. For one submarine , you need to allocate ASW aircraft , helos , subchasers (idk if they are a thing anymore) and many other surface vessels that you could have otherwise used against your opponent.
> 
> The glimmer of hope is that the sub-base built in Cox's Bazar could house more than just two subs. In addition to this, the BN spokesperson explicitly said that the two subs we have a dual role of training and subsurface warfare. Implying that more subs are to come. My thoughts



BN is planning for a number of subs without doubt. Not sure how many....

We need to consider a few minisubs for the bay as well. As you said they are force multipliers... i would prioritise subs over surface combatants.

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> BN is planning for a number of subs without doubt. Not sure how many....
> 
> We need to consider a few minisubs for the bay as well. As you said they are force multipliers... i would prioritise subs over surface combatants.


My opinion is that surface fleet should specialise in Air defense (our weakness) + Anti-ship and anti sub warfare (by means of ASW helos).

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## Philip the Arab

Does BD have any coastal anti ship missiles?

Marte ER+Exocet Block 3 would be a pretty lethal combination in my opinion that would be able to supplement the anti ship capabilities of Bangladesh.

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## mb444

I think i read BD does have or aquiring land based antiship missiles.... its in the forum somewhere...

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> My opinion is that surface fleet should specialise in Air defense (our weakness) + Anti-ship and anti sub warfare (by means of ASW helos).


So you want a ship like the Saar 6 basically? At 1900 tons this is probably the most armed ship per ton holy shit imagine if BD could get this ship in another dimension. 10 of these ships would be a huge force multiplier to BD.


1 × Oto Melara 76 mm main gun
2 × Typhoon Weapon Stations
32 vertical launch cells for Barak-8 surface-to-air missiles
40 vertical launch cells for C-Dome point defense system
16 Gabriel V anti-ship missile
2 × 324 mm (13 in) torpedo launchers
1 MH-60 Seahawk multi mission helicopter

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Navy will get MRSAM before BAF.
> 
> Destroyers will be turned into floating officers hotels like the IJN Yamato.


Gotta admit though Yamato was a mean ship 
I would have built aircraft carriers in their place since they themselves proved battleships are obsolete but oh well

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> We need lots of subs.... but a carrier battle group for what... they are very much a slow moving target.. very very expensive to maintain... we in my opinion do not need that nor can we efford it and nor is it a best use of resources ... we need to nimble and deadly.... 6-8 proper subs and 10-12 mini subs backed up by landbased sams covering the whole of the bay and beyond onto international shipping lines will ensure no blocade is envisaged by anyone... infact i am probably overestimating the numbers 4 subs and 8 mini subs probably will do the job fine.



So no destroyers ? I mean BN does have a plan of LHDs sooo


F-6 enthusiast said:


> My opinion is that surface fleet should specialise in Air defense (our weakness) + Anti-ship and anti sub warfare (by means of ASW helos).



One issue , our CMs have terrible range against the Indian Brahmos lol we need wayy better range CMs and hopefully not get caught by the MTCR lol.

300km is good against Myanmar and nothing against India


F-6 enthusiast said:


> Navy will get MRSAM before BAF.
> 
> Destroyers will be turned into floating officers hotels like the IJN Yamato.



Lol , Destroyers have top tier air defense though so ehh


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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Subs would be the best investment. My opinion is that Submarines are an Asymmetric response to an opponent with a massive surface fleet. For one submarine , you need to allocate ASW aircraft , helos , subchasers (idk if they are a thing anymore) and many other surface vessels that you could have otherwise used against your opponent.
> 
> The glimmer of hope is that the sub-base built in Cox's Bazar could house more than just two subs. In addition to this, the BN spokesperson explicitly said that the two subs we have a dual role of training and subsurface warfare. Implying that more subs are to come. My thoughts



I have a feeling that China has every right to host PLAN subs and surface ships near and in that base. 

Now wonder Indians were so eager about placing radars in Bangladesh. I am sure we can shut that thing down at the right moment. ;-)

There has to be a limit on Indian dadagiri.

Any talk about PLAN subs in Bay of Bengal, and Indian Navy starts peeing in their pants.

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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> I have a feeling that China has every right to host PLAN subs and surface ships near and in that base.
> 
> Now wonder Indians were so eager about placing radars in Bangladesh. I am sure we can shut that thing down at the right moment. ;-)
> 
> There has to be a limit on Indian dadagiri.
> 
> Any talk about PLAN subs in Bay of Bengal, and Indian Navy starts peeing in their pants.



Why should PLAN have any right to a BD base. No rights should be granted to any foreign country.

BD sovereignty must always be sacrosanct.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> Why should PLAN have any right to a BD base. No rights should be granted to any foreign country.
> 
> BD sovereignty must always be sacrosanct.



Lol I guess , we need to build our own Navy first if we want challenge the Indians


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## The Ronin

Indos said:


> IMO better to use drone as attack hellicopter can get shot by short range missile easil



I told that to @Destranator before but seems he has different opinions. Well, he has some valid points and both gonna come anyway so no point in arguing.



Indos said:


> Here, it is a plan that has been around 8 years old





Indos said:


> But since government is not interested in funding the program so this just stop on the design phase, without further development to make any real prototype.



Looks like AH-1Z Viper with wheeled landing gear. If Bangladesh becomes self-sufficient in aerospace tech, keeps doing good in economy and decides to manufacture attack helicopter in future with joint venture, i hope they check this option too. BAF 216 MRO plant already has vision for that.



Philip the Arab said:


> It will probably be the best air defense SHORAD in the world for a little bit, sixty missiles in each launcher and up to three launchers per Skynex. Twenty missiles in the air at the same time per launcher(Total eighty simultaneous interceptions) and 16 launched in 3.5 seconds.



What is the maximum slant/altitude range of this missile?



Philip the Arab said:


> When you are South Asian and you're white wife tries making Biriyani 🤣



What's this supposed to mean?!  Are you saying we South Asians don't have white skin? 



T-SaGe said:


> I didn't want to share it here, as it's rumor-level. However, as far as I understand, there are some rumors on the Bangladesh side as well. In the near future, Bangladesh may become one of the countries producing their own tactical armed UAVs.



Already doing it. BAF has taken project and Navy's R&D did and still doing it.



BlackViking said:


> Go through army drone tender pdf. Check their requirements. Only Turkish drones (specifically Anka s) matches their requirements.



I don't think Anka-S has chance. Not sure about TB2 either. The altitude requirements is lower than Anka-S and i don't know if TB2 has two cabin for EO/IR and SAR/EW and other sensors or not.



Destranator said:


> Enemy tanks can be easily taken out by land and airborne ATGMs and guided artillery.
> 
> BD already has more than enough tanks to defend NW. All they need is back up by artillery and air support.



Same can be said for attack helicopter and UCAV/UAV. Maybe we have enough tanks but they aren't modern enough. We need to replace Type 69IIG and under-powered Type-59G Durjoy.



mb444 said:


> BN is planning for a number of subs without doubt. Not sure how many



6/8 subs by 2030.



mb444 said:


> I think i read BD does have or aquiring land based antiship missiles.... its in the forum somewhere...



I think it's a false news and speculation by Bangladeshi defense pages. If it really happened we would've seen it by now and there would've been official announcement by govt.



mb444 said:


> Why should PLAN have any right to a BD base. No rights should be granted to any foreign country.
> 
> BD sovereignty must always be sacrosanct.



"ভাতৃপ্রীতির নামে অতিমাত্রায় চাটুকারিতা এবং পদলেহন করিতে গিয়া মক্কেলটি হিতাহিত জ্ঞান হারাইয়া, নিজের দেশের সার্বভৌমত্ব জলাঞ্জলি দিয়া আবোল-তাবোল বকিতে শুরু করিয়াছেন। চার বছর পর ওনার কাজকর্ম ও এই প্রকৃত রুপ দেখিয়া আমি যারপরনাই বিস্মিত, বাকরুদ্ধ, মর্মাহত, আমোদিত এবং শিহরিত। (বলিয়াছেন হিরোহিতো) চতুষ্পদী জীবের অনুরুপ মনিবের প্রতি তাহার এই আনুগত্য, (উনার নিজের ভাষ্যমতে) তিনি আমার/আমাদের নিকট হইতে কিভাবে ঘুমন্ত আগ্নেয়গিরির চাপিয়া রাখিয়া এত বছর পর তীব্রশক্তিতে উদগীরণ করিয়াছেন তাহা অবশ্যই গবেষনার বিষয়।"

(বানী- জাপানের সম্রাট হিরোহিতো)

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## Destranator

Indos said:


> We had that plan before but never got funding from government, I will give you the model as soon as I can access my computer again, but IMO better to use drone as attack hellicopter can get shot by short range missile easily..





The Ronin said:


> I told that to @Destranator before but seems he has different opinions. Well, both gonna come anyway so no point in arguing.


I am all in favour of using drones wherever possible.

However, drone technology is yet to advance to a stage where it can perform the role of attack helicopters.

Human pilots can make attack helicopters quickly turn around and stall mid air to allow the Weapon Systems Officers make split second decisions to fire cannons or missiles at very specific imminent threats to ground troops. This is difficult to achieve with jet powered UCAVs that are currently available.
Rotor blade powered heavy UCAVs capable of carrying ATGMs and cannons can eventually replace attack helicopters but not any time soon.

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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> I told that to @Destranator before but seems he has different opinions. Well, he has some valid points and both gonna come anyway so no point in arguing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like AH-1Z Viper with wheeled landing gear. If Bangladesh becomes self-sufficient in aerospace tech, keeps doing good in economy and decides to manufacture attack helicopter in future with joint venture, i hope they check this option too. BAF 216 MRO plant already has vision for that.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the maximum slant/altitude range of this missile?
> 
> 
> 
> What's this supposed to mean?!  Are you saying we South Asians don't have white skin?
> 
> 
> 
> Already doing it. BAF has taken project and Navy's R&D did and still doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Anka-S has chance. Not sure about TB2 either. The altitude requirements is lower than Anka-S and i don't know if TB2 has two cabin for EO/IR and SAR/EW and other sensors or not.
> 
> 
> 
> Same can be said for attack helicopter and UCAV/UAV. Maybe we have enough tanks but they aren't modern enough. We need to replace Type 69IIG and under-powered Type-59G Durjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 6/8 subs by 2030.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a false news and speculation by Bangladeshi defense pages. If it really happened we would've seen it by now and there would've been official announcement by govt.
> 
> 
> 
> "ভাতৃপ্রীতির নামে অতিমাত্রায় চাটুকারিতা এবং পদলেহন করিতে গিয়া মক্কেলটি হিতাহিত জ্ঞান হারাইয়া, নিজের দেশের সার্বভৌমত্ব জলাঞ্জলি দিয়া আবোল-তাবোল বকিতে শুরু করিয়াছেন। চার বছর পর ওনার কাজকর্ম ও এই প্রকৃত রুপ দেখিয়া আমি যারপরনাই বিস্মিত, বাকরুদ্ধ, মর্মাহত, আমোদিত এবং শিহরিত। (বলিয়াছেন হিরোহিতো) চতুষ্পদী জীবের অনুরুপ মনিবের প্রতি তাহার এই আনুগত্য, (উনার নিজের ভাষ্যমতে) তিনি আমার/আমাদের নিকট হইতে কিভাবে ঘুমন্ত আগ্নেয়গিরির চাপিয়া রাখিয়া এত বছর পর তীব্রশক্তিতে উদগীরণ করিয়াছেন তাহা অবশ্যই গবেষনার বিষয়।"
> 
> (বানী- জাপানের সম্রাট হিরোহিতো)




If we aren't getting the TB-2 or AnkaS what's even the point of getting Turkish drones if we aren't getting the best ?

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## Philip the Arab

The Ronin said:


> What is the maximum slant/altitude range of this missile?


Altitude is not listed, I suppose at least 6 kms altitude but that is not imporant. This is supposed to operate to protect mainly against cruise missiles, CRAM, and PGMs all of which get to pretty low altitudes during descent near the target.


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## SpaceMan18

Philip the Arab said:


> Altitude is not listed, I suppose at least 6 kms altitude but that is not imporant. This is supposed to operate to protect mainly against cruise missiles, CRAM, and PGMs all of which get to pretty low altitudes during descent near the target.



Is it low cost ? No strings attached ?

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## Jobless Jack

mb444 said:


> We need to be realistic and not talk things up.
> 
> BD armed forces are more or less complete cowards. They do not have the back bone for any kind of fight as the rohingya debacle proved.
> 
> As BD reaches 50 years what do we really make by ourselves.... we are not even self sufficient in small arms.... the machine tool factory of BD army at best produces a few things of 70s tech.
> 
> At the end of the day the defense forces must have concrete threat preception and then a plan to mitigate that threat. BA just a few years ago announced it does not consider india a threat and it has proved on the ground it wont fight the burmese.
> 
> Let us not lionise our forces, they really have not done anything at all in their history to deserve much respect. Technical innovation wont come from these guys, if GOB opens up defense sector to private companies we may see some movement but otherwise i am afraid the proposition is totally unrealistic.


I understand the sentiment put i don't appreciate the comment

You have an armed force that is under equipped and underfunded, give them the proper equipment's and see what they do . It is unfair that one expects the BD armed forces to go to war without the proper equipment. 

However the incompetence of BAF is legendary. 

if your comments was aimed at the government of BD and BAF , yes i would agree with you

BA and BN has done an excellent job with the limited budget and bureaucratic constraints placed on them.

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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> I understand the sentiment put i don't appreciate the comment
> 
> You have an armed force that is under equipped and underfunded, give them the proper equipment's and see what they do . It is unfair that one expects the BD armed forces to go to war without the proper equipment.
> 
> However the incompetence of BAF is legendary.
> 
> if your comments was aimed at the government of BD and BAF , yes i would agree with you
> 
> BA and BN has done an excellent job with the limited budget and bureaucratic constraints placed on them.



BA : We got T300 Kasirga GLMRS and VT-5 tanks
BN: We got 2 submarines,2 frigates and a corvette 
BAF : We got no fighter jets and got some C-130Js

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> BA : We got T300 Kasirga GLMRS and VT-5 tanks
> BN: We got 2 submarines,2 frigates and a corvette
> BAF : We got no fighter jets and got some C-130Js




BA and BN are superior to their Myanmar counterparts.

BA in a defensive role, when combined with Ansar reservists, could make life hell for the IA if it ever invaded BD.

BAF on the otherhand just sits around doing nothing but playing with trainers and fighters.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> BA and BN are superior to their Myanmar counterparts.
> 
> BA in a defensive role, when combined with Ansar reservists, could make life hell for the IA if it ever invaded BD.
> 
> BAF on the otherhand just sits around doing nothing but playing with trainers and answers



If India ever invaded Bangladesh , it will be their own Vietnam lol


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## Avicenna

Gentlemen of culture!

Any word on the delivery of upgraded Mig-29s from Belarus? 

Should be ready right about now.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Gentlemen of culture!
> 
> Any word on the delivery of upgraded Mig-29s from Belarus?
> 
> Should be ready right about now.




From what I have read, the first four have already been upgraded and returned to BD. These have modern radars and electronics and so BAF finally has true BVR fighters, which can fully utilise the R-27 BVRAAM to its maximum range and so can duel with the JF-17 Block 2 that MAF has.

It looks like the remaining four are still to be sent to Belarus for upgradation.

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## Bilal9

SpaceMan18 said:


> If India ever invaded Bangladesh , it will be their own Vietnam lol



To continue with Vietnam, US needed men, materiel and funds. They had plenty and they still had to withdraw at the end.

India could have some underfed soldiers, but materiel and funds are currently in pretty limited supply. Not Vietnam, it will be India's "Black Hawk Down".

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> If India ever invaded Bangladesh , it will be their own Vietnam lol


Its will be worse.

Vietnam war never reached USA mainland


This war, if it ever takes place will reach every corner of india unfortunetly.

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## Bilal9

SpaceMan18 said:


> BA : We got T300 Kasirga GLMRS and VT-5 tanks
> BN: We got 2 submarines,2 frigates and a corvette
> BAF : We got no fighter jets and got some C-130Js



C-130J is needed in case India asks for any large Bangladeshi purchase to be sent to us, since we are such "Mitron" to India, helping her industry. Bandha customer. Kanjoosis will not use their own airplanes for this.

Case in point, vaccines from Serum Institute. Which they have now canceled. Who knew about the foregone conclusion?

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

IMHO the BAF should look at the JAS-39E/F. It already offers super-cruising, GaN-type AESA radar, and all of the weapons integration you'll need.

Start with JAS-39E/Fs and build your mainstay fleet around it, but slot yourself into the KAI KFX. 

The benefit of this approach is that the Gripen E/F and KFX use the same engine type. So, when you induct the KFX as your NGFA, you'll have engine commonality and fleet-wide supercruising. 

Also, when speaking to Sweden and South Korea, you should ensure you're getting a 75% offset in the form of direct investment in your manufacturing, especially industrial inputs (jig manufacturing) and automobiles.

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## JamD

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Also, when speaking to Sweden and South Korea, you should ensure you're getting a 75% offset in the form of direct investment in your manufacturing, especially industrial inputs (jig manufacturing) and automobiles.


After giving up on Pakistan, @Bilal Khan (Quwa) is now trying to convince Bangladesh lol.

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## UKBengali

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMHO the BAF should look at the JAS-39E/F. It already offers super-cruising, GaN-type AESA radar, and all of the weapons integration you'll need.
> 
> Start with JAS-39E/Fs and build your mainstay fleet around it, but slot yourself into the KAI KFX.
> 
> The benefit of this approach is that the Gripen E/F and KFX use the same engine type. So, when you induct the KFX as your NGFA, you'll have engine commonality and fleet-wide supercruising.
> 
> Also, when speaking to Sweden and South Korea, you should ensure you're getting a 75% offset in the form of direct investment in your manufacturing, especially industrial inputs (jig manufacturing) and automobiles.




BAF is more likely to get EFT with the Mk2 Captor-E AESA radar which is a much better air-superiorty fighter, although it is more expensive to buy and maintain. Then again, 16 of these will have similar capability to 24-30 Gripen Es.
My personal preference is refurbished Gripen Cs with Swedish AESA radar/Meteor fully integrated but this is looking less likely by the day.


As for KAI KFX?

Crazy idea for a multitude of reasons:


1. S Korea is under heavy US influence.
2. Engine will be US.
3. Missiles will be US or European.

In essence BD will have to maintain good relations with both Korea/US or Korea/US/Europe to both get the aircraft and operate it.

Far better to get TFX as that is from a reliable supplier(Turkey) with the only snag that the engines will be Western in the first 10-15 years of operation.

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## Destranator

JamD said:


> After giving up on Pakistan, @Bilal Khan (Quwa) is now trying to convince Bangladesh lol.


In @Bilal Khan (Quwa)'s defence, he has recommended Gripens for BAF many times and many of us agree with him.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> BAF is more likely to get EFT with the Mk2 Captor-E AESA radar which is a much better air-superiorty fighter, although it is more expensive to buy and maintain. Then again, 16 of these will have similar capability to 24-30 Gripen Es.
> My personal preference is refurbished Gripen Cs with Swedish AESA radar/Meteor fully integrated but this is looking less likely by the day.
> 
> 
> As for KAI KFX?
> 
> Crazy idea for a multitude of reasons:
> 
> 
> 1. S Korea is under heavy influence.
> 2. Engine will be US.
> 3. Missiles will be US or European.
> 
> In essence BD will have to maintain good relations with both Korea/US or Korea/US/Europe to both get the aircraft and operate it.
> 
> Far better to get TFX as that is from a reliable supplier(Turkey) with the only snag that the engines will be Western in the first 10-15 years of operation.


BAF won't be able to afford more than 1 sqd of EFTs. There will always be room for single engine fighters.


There are huge question marks on technical and financial feasibilities of every single fifth generation fighter on Earth.
IMHO, BAF should heavily invest in 4.5 gen fighters (ideally 5-6 squadrons of Gripen E/Fs with ToT and AEW&C & EW packages) and R&D on UCAVs until supersonic UCAVs become reality.

Fifth generation fighters are a waste of time (cost vs benefit).

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## Avicenna

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMHO the BAF should look at the JAS-39E/F. It already offers super-cruising, GaN-type AESA radar, and all of the weapons integration you'll need.
> 
> Start with JAS-39E/Fs and build your mainstay fleet around it, but slot yourself into the KAI KFX.
> 
> The benefit of this approach is that the Gripen E/F and KFX use the same engine type. So, when you induct the KFX as your NGFA, you'll have engine commonality and fleet-wide supercruising.
> 
> Also, when speaking to Sweden and South Korea, you should ensure you're getting a 75% offset in the form of direct investment in your manufacturing, especially industrial inputs (jig manufacturing) and automobiles.



I think that ship has sailed friend.

Typhoon SEEMS to be the choice. (At least for the twin engine requirement BAF seems to want)

The single engine choice remains to be seen.

While I agree with your suggestions to maintain a single type fleet, it seems BAF leadership thinks otherwise.

On a side note, its REMARKABLE to me that we are even having this discussion about BAF choosing between NEW BUILD modern Western types.

Reminds me a Drake lyric " Havin' lunch and debatin' Ferrari prices "

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## Philip the Arab

SpaceMan18 said:


> Is it low cost ? No strings attached ?


It will likely be as cheap as competing systems like Tor, and Iron Dome.

It will likely be ITAR free but a bottleneck I see would be if BD relations with Germany ever go sour but that is as I see it unlikely. They would be able to sanction the gun and radar systems but not the missile itself.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

UKBengali said:


> BAF is more likely to get EFT with the Mk2 Captor-E AESA radar which is a much better air-superiorty fighter, although it is more expensive to buy and maintain. Then again, 16 of these will have similar capability to 24-30 Gripen Es.
> My personal preference is refurbished Gripen Cs with Swedish AESA radar/Meteor fully integrated but this is looking less likely by the day.
> 
> 
> As for KAI KFX?
> 
> Crazy idea for a multitude of reasons:
> 
> 
> 1. S Korea is under heavy influence.
> 2. Engine will be US.
> 3. Missiles will be US or European.
> 
> In essence BD will have to maintain good relations with both Korea/US or Korea/US/Europe to both get the aircraft and operate it.
> 
> Far better to get TFX as that is from a reliable supplier(Turkey) with the only snag that the engines will be Western in the first 10-15 years of operation.


That's fair, but keep in mind that the Typhoon seems to have a wonky long-term support set-up with limited spare parts supply. They may have solved it with the Tranche 1, but the on-and-off-again production approach is still in place. E.g., it took a Kuwaiti order to kick-start the CAPTOR AESA program in earnest.

I'd go with Sweden because they are more (though not 100%) inclined to neutrality and independence. They'd respect that in other states, and that's what BD should aspire towards.

In practice, Sweden will give customers flexible long-term credit/loans, and offsets. The latter part is key. You'll want to get some of the money you spend on fighters back into your economy in key areas.

As for the KFX. Yes, the engines are of US-origin (as with the Gripen), but you're not Pakistan. So, don't think like us Pakistanis. You don't have a problem with the US; all you need to do is not do anything to annoy them (e.g., don't pull an Ops Gibraltar scene on West Bengal).

However, the KFX could slot in as your twin-engine jet, and it looks like a really good solution for the task. The Koreans will localize the electronics and munitions (AAMs/SOWs), so you don't need to worry about Western integration issues.

Again, just make sure you're tying in offsets and get the Koreans to manufacture their cars in BD. Basically, get the Swedes to manufacture machining and jigs in BD, and then get the Koreans to buy those jigs etc and build cars in BD. Then take out India's car markets.

You'll spend $12-15 b on the Swedes and Koreans, but you'll get $15-20 b in macroeconomic benefits after the fact (plus the fighters). 

@JamD (mic drop)

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## SpaceMan18

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> That's fair, but keep in mind that the Typhoon seems to have a wonky long-term support set-up with limited spare parts supply. They may have solved it with the Tranche 1, but the on-and-off-again production approach is still in place. E.g., it took a Kuwaiti order to kick-start the CAPTOR AESA program in earnest.
> 
> I'd go with Sweden because they are more (though not 100%) inclined to neutrality and independence. They'd respect that in other states, and that's what BD should aspire towards.
> 
> In practice, Sweden will give customers flexible long-term credit/loans, and offsets. The latter part is key. You'll want to get some of the money you spend on fighters back into your economy in key areas.
> 
> As for the KFX. Yes, the engines are of US-origin (as with the Gripen), but you're not Pakistan. So, don't think like us Pakistanis. You don't have a problem with the US; all you need to do is not do anything to annoy them (e.g., don't pull an Ops Gibraltar scene on West Bengal).
> 
> However, the KFX could slot in as your twin-engine jet, and it looks like a really good solution for the task. The Koreans will localize the electronics and munitions (AAMs/SOWs), so you don't need to worry about Western integration issues.
> 
> Again, just make sure you're tying in offsets and get the Koreans to manufacture their cars in BD. Basically, get the Swedes to manufacture machining and jigs in BD, and then get the Koreans to buy those jigs etc and build cars in BD. Then take out India's car markets.
> 
> You'll spend $12-15 b on the Swedes and Koreans, but you'll get $15-20 b in macroeconomic benefits after the fact (plus the fighters).
> 
> @JamD (mic drop)



Great idea , two issues fam


India and our leader

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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> Great idea , two issues fam
> 
> 
> India and our leader



Buy refurbished and upgraded F 16 bro, this one is refurbished and upgraded in Indonesia. We bought it in 1989.


Third or Fourth upgraded and refurbished ones. Its age will be prolonged so we still can operate it until next 20 years. Cheap solution for stopgap before we inshaAllah induct KFX/IFX.

MUCH MUCH Cheaper, but you should not lean too much toward China in order to get one

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> Buy refurbished and upgraded F 16 bro, this one is refurbished and upgraded in Indonesia. We bought it in 1989.
> 
> 
> Third or Fourth upgraded and refurbished ones. Its age will be prolonged so we still can operate it until next 20 years. Cheap solution for stopgap before we inshaAllah induct KFX/IFX.
> 
> MUCH MUCH Cheaper, but you should not lean too much toward China in order to get one
> 
> 
> View attachment 730284




Bangladesh wanted F-16s back in the 90s but America laughed at us an said why does a small POOR nation need such modern jets ? And we got Migs and we were suppose to get 32 or something like that but due to corruption we got only 8.


Bangladesh Air Force's best option was Gripen and they wanted older ones but Sweden said sorry but no , and BAF rejected the whole dam aircraft since that.


Bangladesh in the end will probably go for the Euro Fighter Typhoon no matter what we say , Gripen was the best option but BAF said HECK NO.

And only Allah knows when we will get AWACS or EWs with these fighters





Here's one of our pilots ( He's a famous actor now ) in Turkey training with their F-16s back in the 90s I think

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> Bangladesh wanted F-16s back in the 90s but America laughed at us an said why does a small POOR nation need such modern jets ? And we got Migs and we were suppose to get 32 or something like that but due to corruption we got only 8.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force's best option was Gripen and they wanted older ones but Sweden said sorry but no , and BAF rejected the whole dam aircraft since that.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh in the end will probably go for the Euro Fighter Typhoon no matter what we say , Gripen was the best option but BAF said HECK NO.
> 
> And only Allah knows when we will get AWACS or EWs with these fighters
> 
> View attachment 730365
> 
> Here's one of our pilots ( He's a famous actor now ) in Turkey training with their F-16s back in the 90s I think


found the article 
U.S. refused to sell F-16s to Bangladesh (f-16.net) 

i think thats Riaz

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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> Bangladesh wanted F-16s back in the 90s but America laughed at us an said why does a small POOR nation need such modern jets ? And we got Migs and we were suppose to get 32 or something like that but due to corruption we got only 8.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force's best option was Gripen and they wanted older ones but Sweden said sorry but no , and BAF rejected the whole dam aircraft since that.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh in the end will probably go for the Euro Fighter Typhoon no matter what we say , Gripen was the best option but BAF said HECK NO.
> 
> And only Allah knows when we will get AWACS or EWs with these fighters
> 
> View attachment 730365
> 
> Here's one of our pilots ( He's a famous actor now ) in Turkey training with their F-16s back in the 90s I think



If you cannot buy the cheap refurbish ones, then better wait until 2030 where your economy is already big enough to buy at least KFX/IFX for minimal 3 squadrons. For me, rather than spending around 3 billion USD buying Eurofighter, better the money is spent for industrialization/education/infrastructure and others.

Talking about dealing with India, as many Bangladeshi members here always said India is the main threat (not my opinion), it is better to start training civilians for military exercise. You cannot withstand from India attack by having fighters and others that you dream, unless you are ready to spend like Pakistan does.

Indonesia is already preparing getting attack by superpowers, this is why we start doing military training to civiliants, but the program is for the willing ones, it is not conscription.

Pindad has already finished manufacturing 25.000 SS 2-V5 rifles for the start of the program.














Indonesia siapkan 25.000 senjata baru untuk komponen cadangan


Direktur Utama Pindad Abraham Mose mengaku mendapat pesanan dari pemerintah berupa senjata SS2-V5 A1 yang merupakan varian terbaru - Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Bangladesh wanted F-16s back in the 90s but America laughed at us an said why does a small POOR nation need such modern jets ? And we got Migs and we were suppose to get 32 or something like that but due to corruption we got only 8.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force's best option was Gripen and they wanted older ones but Sweden said sorry but no , and BAF rejected the whole dam aircraft since that.
> 
> 
> Bangladesh in the end will probably go for the Euro Fighter Typhoon no matter what we say , Gripen was the best option but BAF said HECK NO.
> 
> And only Allah knows when we will get AWACS or EWs with these fighters
> 
> View attachment 730365
> 
> Here's one of our pilots ( He's a famous actor now ) in Turkey training with their F-16s back in the 90s I think



Yes BAL government at the time wanted 27 F-16s. BD was very poor then but could still have afforded this force as F-16s were the cheapest Western 4th gen platforms to buy and operate before Gripen came into service.

Just imagine these were delivered and even with the sparrow BVR would have given BAF total air-superiority over Myanmar. The Rohingya tragedy may never have happened.

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> Yes BAL government at the time wanted 27 F-16s. BD was very poor then but could still have afforded this force as F-16s were the cheapest Western 4th gen platforms to buy and operate before Gripen came into service.
> 
> Just imagine these were delivered and even with the sparrow BVR would have given BAF total air-superiority over Myanmar. The Rohingya tragedy may never have happened.


could have even gotten AMRAAMs like pakistan did in late 2000s

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## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> Bangladesh Air Force's best option was Gripen and they wanted older ones but Sweden said sorry but no , and BAF rejected the whole dam aircraft since that.



So it was Sweden who doesn't want to sell Gripens to BAF or am I missing something.


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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> could have even gotten AMRAAMs like pakistan did in late 2000s



Yes USA would have allowed AMRAAM sale later on but even the later versions of the sparrow missile were very deadly when used in combination of the F-16 Block 52+ radar and its EW system.
Far better than the Mig-29s that MAF brought.

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> Yes USA would have allowed AMRAAM sale later on but even the later versions of the sparrow missile were very deadly when used in combination of the F-16 Block 52+ radar and its EW system.
> Far better than the Mig-29s that MAF brought.


have we bought R-77s for our upgraded MiGs yet ? R-27 are okay at best.


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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> have we bought R-77s for our upgraded MiGs yet ? R-27 are okay at best.



Don’t think so as there have been no reports.

R27s are still deadly to an airforce like MAF that is not that sophisticated.

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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> So it was Sweden who doesn't want to sell Gripens to BAF or am I missing something.



Sweden wanted to sell new Gripens but Bangladesh wanted older ones , Sweden said No cause Bangladesh wanted older Gripens


UKBengali said:


> Don’t think so as there have been no reports.
> 
> R27s are still deadly to an airforce like MAF that is not that sophisticated.



Idk how many flight hours our pilots get , skill counts as well

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## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> Sweden wanted to sell new Gripens but Bangladesh wanted older ones , Sweden said No cause Bangladesh wanted older Gripens



Why would BAF want second instead of new? or was it cos of budget constraints?


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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> Why would BAF want second instead of new? or was it cos of budget constraints?



Yep definitely cost for sure

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## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yep definitely cost for sure



Gripens are expensive if you compare it with the cost of JF17.

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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> Gripens are expensive if you compare it with the cost of JF17.



True , but if we got Jf-17s India will be pissed lol


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## alphapak

SpaceMan18 said:


> True , but if we got Jf-17s India will be pissed lol



For $3 billion BAF can get 3 x 16 JF17 Block 3 with aesa and PL15 missiles and still have
money left over to buy Erieye awacs. There is a reason why Myanmar went and ordered JF17,
its an upgrade from 3rd gen F7 to 4th gen, costs much less than a western fighter and low
maintenance cost.

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## SpaceMan18

alphapak said:


> For $3 billion BAF can get 3 x 16 JF17 Block 3 with aesa and PL15 missiles and still have
> money left over to buy Erieye awacs. There is a reason why Myanmar went and ordered JF17,
> its an upgrade from 3rd gen F7 to 4th gen, costs much less than a western fighter and low
> maintenance cost.



Yeah , too bad Myanmar is using their jets against their own people


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## mb444

alphapak said:


> For $3 billion BAF can get 3 x 16 JF17 Block 3 with aesa and PL15 missiles and still have
> money left over to buy Erieye awacs. There is a reason why Myanmar went and ordered JF17,
> its an upgrade from 3rd gen F7 to 4th gen, costs much less than a western fighter and low
> maintenance cost.




BAF needs to withstand raffles....for that only EFT would do.... meteor vs meteor....but EFT clearly better in the air dominance role.

One squadron of EFT i would have over 3 squadron of JF17.

JF17/J10 however as our second string jets would be fantastic with PL15.

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## alphapak

mb444 said:


> BAF needs to withstand raffles....for that only EFT would do.... meteor vs meteor....but EFT clearly better in the air dominance role.
> 
> One squadron of EFT i would have over 3 squadron of JF17.
> 
> JF17/J10 however as our second string jets would be fantastic with PL15.



Pl15 outranges the meteor. We dont know if BAF will get the meteor yet, contract has 
not been signed.


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## mb444

alphapak said:


> Pl15 outranges the meteor. We dont know if BAF will get the meteor yet, contract has
> not been signed.



I am going with the assumption that they will otherwise rather pointless. EFT is purely to give BAF a chance against IAF. We can not afford quantity so quality will have to do.

I know PL15 out ranges meteor but let me put it this way IAF will fear JF17 but EFT they will fear more.

You know the state BAF is in.... EFT gives us a fighting chance.... BAF likely to only buy a few jets... i would personally it be EFT.. BD is unlikely to buy anything for 5 years after a jet purchase...

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## alphapak

mb444 said:


> I am going with the assumption that they will otherwise rather pointless. EFT is purely to give BAF a chance against IAF. We can not afford quantity so quality will have to do.
> 
> I know PL15 out ranges meteor but let me put it this way IAF will fear JF17 but EFT they will fear more.
> 
> You know the state BAF is in.... EFT gives us a fighting chance.... BAF likely to only buy a few jets... i would personally it be EFT.. BD is unlikely to buy anything for 5 years after a jet purchase...



If you the top shelf Eurofighter then for $3 billion you will get about 12. BAF will also need awacs and EW
planes as well. Check out Qatar deal for 24 Eurofighters which is worth £6 billiion pounds.








Qatar buys 24 Eurofighter Typhoon jets in £6bn deal


The move will help safeguard thousands of jobs at BAE Systems, mainly at Warton in Lancashire.



www.bbc.co.uk

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## mb444

alphapak said:


> If you the top shelf Eurofighter then for $3 billion you will get about 12. BAF will also need awacs and EW
> planes as well. Check out Qatar deal for 24 Eurofighters which is worth £6 billiion pounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar buys 24 Eurofighter Typhoon jets in £6bn deal
> 
> 
> The move will help safeguard thousands of jobs at BAE Systems, mainly at Warton in Lancashire.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk




BD going to buy 16 of something and that's it in my opinion....I hope its going to be EFT....

BAF lacks vision or doctrine for AWACS, refuelers or EW assets. We can always hope but again in my opinion zero chance anytime soon...


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## alphapak

mb444 said:


> BD going to buy 16 of something and that's it in my opinion....I hope its going to be EFT....
> 
> BAF lacks vision or doctrine for AWACS, refuelers or EW assets. We can always hope but again in my opinion zero chance anytime soon...



Well they bought 8 Mig 29's, maybe they might buy 8 Eurofighters and call it a day.


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## leonblack08

alphapak said:


> Well they bought 8 Mig 29's, maybe they might buy 8 Eurofighters and call it a day.



That was entirely due to politics. The govt. Changed after first 8 migs arrived and the corrupt and incompetent Khaleda Zia govt. Cancelled the order for the rest. It wasn't because BD didn't have the money. It's just that the politicians couldn't profit out of it.

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## alphapak

leonblack08 said:


> That was entirely due to politics. The govt. Changed after first 8 migs arrived and the corrupt and incompetent Khaleda Zia govt. Cancelled the order for the rest. It wasn't because BD didn't have the money. It's just that the politicians couldn't profit out of it.



We will just have to wait and see what BAF goes for.

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## leonblack08

alphapak said:


> We will just have to wait and see what BAF goes for.



That's the mystery. BAF has been teasing everyone with it since last 10 years or so.

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## Philip the Arab

If BD wants to take out IAF Rafales all it needs is to take out is its airbases like I have mentioned many times before.

Hasimara AFB which houses Rafales is right next to Bangladesh, even that new Turkish artillery rocket could take those bases out with mass barrages.

If BD invested in offensive, yet cheap and effective weaponry it would be a massive force multiplier in my opinion.

Something like this with variable projectiles able to fired from SRBM, MLRS, and even anti ship missiles.

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## mb444

alphapak said:


> Well they bought 8 Mig 29's, maybe they might buy 8 Eurofighters and call it a day.



No whatever is being purchased the number will be 16 as it has been quoted officially multiple times. This qont change.

The 8 migs purchased at that time was a great purchase, atleast another 8 would have been purchased if not for BNP.


Philip the Arab said:


> If BD wants to take out IAF Rafales all it needs is to take out is its airbases like I have mentioned many times before.
> 
> Hasimara AFB which houses Rafales is right next to Bangladesh, even that new Turkish artillery rocket could take those bases out with mass barrages.
> 
> If BD invested in offensive, yet cheap and effective weaponry it would be a massive force multiplier in my opinion.
> 
> Something like this with variable projectiles able to fired from SRBM, MLRS, and even anti ship missiles.
> View attachment 730579
> 
> 
> View attachment 730580



SAM are critical whilst there has been some movement, BA has not really aquired much capacity.

IAF has refuelling capability BAF will still need EFT even if nearby bases are taken out.

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## Philip the Arab

mb444 said:


> SAM are critical whilst there has been some movement, BA has not really aquired much capacity.
> 
> IAF has refuelling capability BAF will still need EFT even if nearby bases are taken out.


A strong air force is needed as well as a strong land force to complement said air force against a power that is much stronger, and bigger than bD.

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## UKBengali

Philip the Arab said:


> A strong air force is needed as well as a strong land force to complement said air force against a power that is much stronger, and bigger than bD.



Yep BAF will need MRSAM to protect its airbase where these new MRCAs are housed as they would be prime targets for attack.

In fact at this stage it would make more sense to buy a dozen batteries of MRSAM in order to protect critical targets like Dhaka, Chittagong, Padma Bridge, BAF and BN bases before spending money on MRSAM.

This 1 billion US dollars spent on MRSAM would give far better bang for the buck than the equivalent 1 billion US dollars on fighters right now.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Yep BAF will need MRSAM to protect its airbase where these new MRCAs are housed as they would be prime targets for attack.
> 
> In fact at this stage it would make more sense to buy a dozen batteries of MRSAM in order to protect critical targets like Dhaka, Chittagong, Padma Bridge, BAF and BN bases before spending money on MRSAM.
> 
> This 1 billion US dollars spent on MRSAM would give far better bang for the buck than the equivalent 1 billion US dollars on fighters right now.



Absolutely agree..... also I think we can easily create a production line to produce indiginious SAM with max $100m...... this technology is now in public domain but lethality remains..it wont be the most high tech but even it the range was say 50-100km we can produced them in numbers and create a fire break zone around the country.... this would be enough to pressure chicken neck, neutralise tripura and disrupt sealines to culcutta...

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Absolutely agree..... also I think we can easily create a production line to produce indiginious SAM with max $100m...... this technology is now in public domain but lethality remains..it wont be the most high tech but even it the range was say 50-100km we can produced them in numbers and create a fire break zone around the country.... this would be enough to pressure chicken neck, neutralise tripura and disrupt sealines to culcutta...



BD already produces Chinese Manpads on licence and so production line for MRSAM is the next logical step.

A comprehensive MRSAM network and those 16 MRCAs from West(likely to be 16 EFTs from UK with Meteor/Mk 2 AESA radar) is the most critical need for BD military above anything else right now.

Just these two purchases would give BD instant military superiority over Myanmar and give the Indians a headache if they ever think about putting military pressure on BD.

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## Abid123

SpaceMan18 said:


> Great idea , two issues fam
> 
> 
> India and our leader



Why would India be a issue? Is it because India would not like the idea of Bangladesh arming itself?

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## Philip the Arab

I wonder about a separate branch of the armed forces that handles Ballistic and Cruise missile strikes.

Bangladesh missile force?

It just needs to build up an MTCR compliant force of mainly Chinese SRBM and LACM while working with the North Koreans or whoever will supply ballistic missile technology for a price for Bengali engineers to than work on and develop longer ranged BMs.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Abid123 said:


> Why would India be a issue? Is it because India would not like the idea of Bangladesh arming itself?




Obviously.

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## SpaceMan18

Philip the Arab said:


> I wonder about a separate branch of the armed forces that handles Ballistic and Cruise missile strikes.
> 
> Bangladesh missile force?
> 
> It just needs to build up an MTCR compliant force of mainly Chinese SRBM and LACM while working with the North Koreans or whoever will supply ballistic missile technology for a price for Bengali engineers to than work on and develop longer ranged BMs.



Let's make sure the CIA doesn't find out

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## Jobless Jack

UKBengali said:


> BD already produces Chinese Manpads on licence and so production line for MRSAM is the next logical step.
> 
> A comprehensive MRSAM network and those 16 MRCAs from West(likely to be 16 EFTs from UK with Meteor/Mk 2 AESA radar) is the most critical need for BD military above anything else right now.
> 
> Just these two purchases would give BD instant military superiority over Myanmar and give the Indians a headache if they ever think about putting military pressure on BD.


Add strike drones...

And yindoo will officially go gaga..

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## mb444

Philip the Arab said:


> I wonder about a separate branch of the armed forces that handles Ballistic and Cruise missile strikes.
> 
> Bangladesh missile force?
> 
> It just needs to build up an MTCR compliant force of mainly Chinese SRBM and LACM while working with the North Koreans or whoever will supply ballistic missile technology for a price for Bengali engineers to than work on and develop longer ranged BMs.




I have always felt that BD needs a forth arm in its armed force... a dedicated missile force. It should also be in charge of surveillance and combat drones. Its purpose should be purely offensive.


SpaceMan18 said:


> Let's make sure the CIA doesn't find out


 

Dont really think it would an issue.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> I have always felt that BD needs a forth arm in its armed force... a dedicated missile force. It should also be in charge of surveillance and combat drones. Its purpose should be purely offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Dont really think it would an issue.



How about Indian spies ? Wouldn't they be an issue ? 

But seriously though we need actual medium range ballistic missile capabilities , and I think China can help us on that


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## BlackViking

mb444 said:


> also I think we can easily create a production line to produce indiginious SAM with max $100m.


Not happening bhai...baf is going for aster 15 most probably. Negotiations on going with mbda.


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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> How about Indian spies ? Wouldn't they be an issue ?
> 
> But seriously though we need actual medium range ballistic missile capabilities , and I think China can help us on that



We do not need to hide such capabilities and such a requirement should not deter us.


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## mb444

BlackViking said:


> Not happening bhai...baf is going for aster 15 most probably. Negotiations on going with mbda.




Really who cares what BAF idiots does. I would not trust them to buy toilet papers. ... they are buying it for point defense as anti missile missiles that is not what i meant.

We require offensive missile to take out enemies key installations, infastructures and assets. This capability would be controlled primarily by BA and BN. We should seek assistance from Turkey or china and kick start a programme.

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## BlackViking

mb444 said:


> Really who cares what BAF idiots does. I would not trust them to buy toilet papers. ... they are buying it for point defense as anti missile missiles that is not what i meant.
> 
> We require offensive missile to take out enemies key installations, infastructures and assets. This capability would be controlled primarily by BA and BN. We should seek assistance from Turkey or china and kick start a programme.


BN will get medium to long range Sam on their new ships...not before 2025 though. No idea about army


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## Avicenna

Nice video.

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> BN will get medium to long range Sam on their new ships...not before 2025 though. No idea about army



Why the heck are we starting our Frigate program in 2025 ? 

Also idk when we will start to put a tender out for new submarines

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## Indos

Why dont buy FA50 ? It can also launch AMRAAM and a preparation before getting KFX/IFX (if the program is successful)

This Malaysian/Thailand are seen as likely candidate by KAI CEO (29 March) to buy FA 50 that could mean they are preparing for KFX/IFX as well for the future. The presentation I believe is not just KAI wishful thinking since they are participating in Malaysia Fighter procurement

Eurofighter is too expensive right ???


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## Indos

The manager also revealed that an FA-50 Block 20 is in the works, and development will begin starting this year. *Block 20 will give the FA-50 the capability to conduct beyond-visual-range air-to-air missions, carrying munitions such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM.* As with the Block 10, there is no requirement to modify the radar of the FA-50. The next step is to study how to increase the power of the radar and extend its detection range. 









KAI Developing Smarter FA-50 Golden Eagle


KAI's T-50 trainer/FA-50 light fighter has achieved some success in Southeast Asia, and the company hopes to increase that with more capable variants




www.ainonline.com

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## Indos

Starting 2028, KAI will begin the export of the KF-X aircraft based on its competitiveness in price.

“It takes about 100 billion won to 200 billion won to acquire one F-35 fighter jet. Lockheed Martin aims to bring down the price to $80 million per unit, but the maintenance costs are so high that even the US is considering to develop new 4.5 generation fighters or upgrade existing fighters,” said Ryu Kwang-su, head of aircraft program division.

*“KAI aims to set the price of KF-X fighter at $65 million with minimized maintenance costs. *Our analysis says that such price range will offer KF-X a competitive edge in the global export market.”









KAI sets sights on Asia No. 1 in ‘new space’ era


From flying cars to private satellites, the paradigm of global aerospace industry is shifting faster than ever. After SpaceX ushered in the dawn of the “new space” age, private players are now making an aggressive foray into the space industry, which had been dominated by governmental...



www01.koreaherald.com

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> Why dont buy FA50 ? It can also launch AMRAAM and a preparation before getting KFX/IFX (if the program is successful)
> 
> This Malaysian/Thailand are seen as likely candidate by KAI CEO (29 March) to buy FA 50 that could mean they are preparing for KFX/IFX as well for the future. The presentation I believe is not just KAI wishful thinking since they are participating in Malaysia Fighter procurement
> 
> Eurofighter is too expensive right ???
> 
> View attachment 731080



Sorry fam the aircraft uses an American engine so it's kinda off the charts of us

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## Jobless Jack

mb444 said:


> Really who cares what BAF idiots does. I would not trust them to buy toilet papers. ... they are buying it for point defense as anti missile missiles that is not what i meant.
> 
> We require offensive missile to take out enemies key installations, infastructures and assets. This capability would be controlled primarily by BA and BN. We should seek assistance from Turkey or china and kick start a programme.


Agreed.

BA must develop a strategic division of the army.. Armed with drones Cruise missiles in massive numbers. No much high tech rather So much in numbers that enemy radars and internception capability will be over run.

Their entire purpose should be to turn anything within 500 - 1000 km of BD into toast.

This along with network of SAM's +coastal bateries + strong submarine fleet + 2-3 squadron of 4th gen planes will more than ensure deterrence.

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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Agreed.
> 
> BA must develop a strategic division of the army.. Armed with drones Cruise missiles in massive numbers. No much high tech rather So much in numbers that enemy radars and internception capability will be over run.
> 
> Their entire purpose should be to turn anything within 500 - 1000 km of BD into toast.
> 
> This along with network of SAM's +coastal bateries + strong submarine fleet + 2-3 squadron of 4th gen planes will more than ensure deterrence.



I agree , but daddy India doesn't agree so idk when we will be that armed to the teeth

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## mb444

Indos said:


> The manager also revealed that an FA-50 Block 20 is in the works, and development will begin starting this year. *Block 20 will give the FA-50 the capability to conduct beyond-visual-range air-to-air missions, carrying munitions such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM.* As with the Block 10, there is no requirement to modify the radar of the FA-50. The next step is to study how to increase the power of the radar and extend its detection range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KAI Developing Smarter FA-50 Golden Eagle
> 
> 
> KAI's T-50 trainer/FA-50 light fighter has achieved some success in Southeast Asia, and the company hopes to increase that with more capable variants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ainonline.com



No country can seriously base any plans on the basis of another country building a fighter jet for itself for the first time.

BD wont even be considering FA-50 until it has been in service for atleast 10 years.

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## Indos

mb444 said:


> No country can seriously base any plans on the basis of another country building a fighter jet for itself for the first time.
> 
> BD wont even be considering FA-50 until it has been in service for atleast 10 years.



Look T 50 Golden Eagle get huge US assistance from top Aerospace company, Lockheed Martin. SK doesnt build the plane alone.

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> Look T 50 Golden Eagle get huge US assistance from top Aerospace company, Lockheed Martin. SK doesnt build the plane alone.



T-50 is pretty good I think the Philippines and you guys operate them , but again the T-50 uses American engines so it's a no no for us

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## mb444

Indos said:


> Look T 50 Golden Eagle get huge US assistance from top Aerospace company, Lockheed Martin. SK doesnt build the plane alone.




I know that. I am not commenting at KFXs quality or pedigree.

BD is not part of the development consortium..... its interest if there is any would be purely academical.... we have absolutely no skin in the game...

As to acquisition, KFX wont be a contender for any country other than those who are building it until it is in service for a decade. A jet is just too expensive a purchase to make and you only buy from proven platform with history.


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## Indos

mb444 said:


> I know that. I am not commenting at KFXs quality or pedigree.
> 
> BD is not part of the development consortium..... its interest if there is any would be purely academical.... we have absolutely no skin in the game...
> 
> As to acquisition, KFX wont be a contender for any country other than those who are building it until it is in service for a decade. A jet is just too expensive a purchase to make and you only buy from proven platform with history.



I am talking about T 50 Golden Eagle (FA 50), not KFX/IFX fighters.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Indos said:


> I am talking about T 50 Golden Eagle (FA 50),


It could be contender for f-7 replacement alongside j-10C. Our leadership is allergic to buying anything with American components.

I also wanted to ask about Indonesia's Su-35 deal if you have time.
Has it been cancelled ?
What role was Su-35s required to fill ?
If it has been cancelled , what other platform is Indonesia looking for ?

thank you

Edit: one more question, How does Indonesia purchase US equipment and attract chinese investment ?


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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> It could be contender for f-7 replacement alongside j-10C. Our leadership is allergic to buying anything with American components.
> 
> I also wanted to ask about Indonesia's Su-35 deal if you have time.
> Has it been cancelled ?
> What role was Su-35s required to fill ?
> If it has been cancelled , what other platform is Indonesia looking for ?
> 
> thank you



I dont think your leadership is alergic with American components, it proves they were trying to get SAB Gripen older variant with F404 engine from GE.

I believe SU 35 deal is likely a death deal due to CATSA. We have KFX/IFX program going on, no way we are going to appease USA over buying SU 35. Air Force doesnt say anything about it in latest acquisition planning.

SU 35 is a heavy weight fighter with long range capability. It is why almost all black flight happened in Indonesian territory is catch by SU 30/27 instead of our F 16 / Hawk / T 50 i. It is good for deep strike penetration, bombing, and naval attack using Brahmos.

Our Planning Ministry only approve 1.6 billion USD foreign loan to acquire new fighters until 2024. The contender is Rafale and F15 EX. It is intended to fill previous F 5 squadron that has been long grounded, other Squadron lend them 3 SU 30 to make the squadron keep alive.

As the Air Force chooses to lend 3 SU 30 planes instead of F 16 to that previous F 5 squadron, so I believe they are going to choose F15 EX (another heavy weight fighter) as US has already offered us that plane, but Today there is process in Pentagon to get some sort of Parliament approval since it is considered very strategic US asset.

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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> T-50 is pretty good I think the Philippines and you guys operate them , but again the T-50 uses American engines so it's a no no for us





Indos said:


> I am talking about T 50 Golden Eagle (FA 50), not KFX/IFX fighters.




Sorry .... i misunderstood....

FA 50 would have been a good choice for BAF instead of the YAK-130. Although FA50 is supersonic it in that same niche of light fighters... for BAF this space has now been filled.

BAF primary aim is air dominance.... for the heavy role hopefully EFT has been selected.

This still leaves space for replacement of F7s....the medium capacity... in this space i would go for full fighters such as J10/JFT or if money allows Grippens.... FA-50 is great fighter in the light weight class but unfortunately that class has now been filled. I wonder if BAF even considered it, i suspect not, they are really rubbish ( BAF management not FA-50)

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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Edit: one more question, How does Indonesia purchase US equipment and attract chinese investment ?



First, Indonesia is with US side in term of SCS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321659425849921537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321713233720307713
But we are also seeing ourselves as equal with US and we still have good relation with China


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321658714999324673

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## Avicenna

Nice video.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Anyone else think conformal fuel tanks look badass ?

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## leonblack08

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Anyone else think conformal fuel tanks look badass ?
> 
> View attachment 731871
> 
> View attachment 731872



CFT makes the fighter look like it's on steroids.


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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Anyone else think conformal fuel tanks look badass ?
> 
> View attachment 731871
> 
> View attachment 731872


I have always like the shoulder pad look on the F-16 Block 60 in UAE service.

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## Jobless Jack

Avicenna said:


> Nice video.


BAF is going to throw the biggest plot twist of the decade

By talking up EFT and then purchasing 16 HAL Tejas with an option of 32 more.

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## Jobless Jack

Philip the Arab said:


> I have always like the shoulder pad look on the F-16 Block 60 in UAE service.
> 
> View attachment 731885
> 
> 
> View attachment 731884


Always wanted to see these beauties in BAF colors. 

Sadly it will always be a dream and not reality.

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## leonblack08

Not sure if these were shared here before, but videos to enjoy nonetheless-






BAF Mig 29 landings-

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## The Ronin

BAF MIG-29BM flying over Belarus. 😍 Notice the different new nosecone. 🙂

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## UKBengali

The Ronin said:


> BAF MIG-29BM flying over Belarus. 😍 Notice the different new nosecone. 🙂
> 
> View attachment 733116
> 
> 
> View attachment 733117
> 
> 
> View attachment 733118






4 Mig-29s upgraded and 4 more left to go.

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> 4 Mig-29s upgraded and 4 more left to go.


let's hope we can obtain R-77 because we don't have any Fox-3 missiles in our inventory

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> let's hope we can obtain R-77 because we don't have any Fox-3 missiles in our inventory




Still the upgraded radar allows the R-27 to be used to their full potential at last.

If BAF does go for R-77, then I hope they ask for the long-range version that India recently brought.

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> BAF MIG-29BM flying over Belarus. 😍 Notice the different new nosecone. 🙂
> 
> View attachment 733116
> 
> 
> View attachment 733117
> 
> 
> View attachment 733118


Finally some worthy fighter jets. Welcome to the 21st century!

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## Avicenna

I know its silly but really would have liked a new camo scheme.

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> let's hope we can obtain R-77 because we don't have any Fox-3 missiles in our inventory


They can fire R-77s, yes but I wonder if BAF is acquiring them from Russia.

R-77 the original productions suck compared to the AMRAAM which is why we saw RuAF jets using SARH long range missiles in Syria.


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## mb444

Jobless Jack said:


> BAF is going to throw the biggest plot twist of the decade
> 
> By talking up EFT and then purchasing 16 HAL Tejas with an option of 32 more.



BAF are a bunch of f*gs.... joking aside I would not be surprised if they made such a descision. Between the entire BAF management there is not a single ball let alone a pair of them.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> I know its silly but really would have liked a new camo scheme.


I hope the new paint used is durable unlike that of the previous scheme.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> I hope the new paint used is durable unlike that of the previous scheme.



Like really though, would it have been that much more expensive just to get a new camo scheme going?

Its aesthetics but may give a sense of a new beginning.

A sort of morale boost.

Kind of like a refresh to a car design or a new coat of paint on a house or fence.

Oh well......

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Like really though, would it have been that much more expensive just to get a new camo scheme going?
> 
> Its aesthetics but may give a sense of a new beginning.
> 
> A sort of morale boost.
> 
> Kind of like a refresh to a car design or a new coat of paint on a house or fence.
> 
> Oh well......


It's a Bangladeshi cultural thing of making things oddly colourful.
You see the same with public transport.
Marshall Airspace probably shamed BAF away from ruining the C-130J's.

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## ziaulislam

F-6 enthusiast said:


> India fighting two front war with pakistan and china is more likely than bd fighting india in isolation. we will not be fighting a war in isolation. Don't know if the indian leadership is foolish enough to fight a 3 front war.
> Indian defence circles (not losers on a forum ) consider BD a neutral country.
> listen to this guy, he speaks some sense (used to work for Jane's)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *We should however maintain minimum deterrence. *


Wait wait
If BD and india goes to war noone else is coming

But there is no reason for twoblong standing allies to go to war

BD amry is practically indian army now

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## Avicenna

Nice video.

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## F-6 enthusiast

The Ronin said:


> new nosecone


Passive Electronically Scanned Array radar?

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## F-6 enthusiast

*ATC( 📻) F7-BGI Bird Strike & Emergency. (Jan 2019)*






F-7 take off with towed target . Sep 2019

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Passive Electronically Scanned Array radar?


I tried hard to confirm but could not. There is very little info on the internet on the N019P radar that comes with the BM upgrade. The original N019 radar was an obsolete analogue-digital hybrid.

Can someone post a source confirming whether N019P is a PESA type radar?

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @UKBengali @Avicenna @The Ronin @Bilal9 @Philip the Arab @Gomig-21

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> I tried hard to confirm but could not. There is very little info on the internet on the N019P radar that comes with the BM upgrade. The original N019 radar was an obsolete analogue-digital hybrid.
> 
> Can someone post a source confirming whether N019P is a PESA type radar?
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @UKBengali @Avicenna @The Ronin @Bilal9 @Philip the Arab @Gomig-21




No it is mechanically scanned.

It allows the full use of all Russian air-to-air missiles like R-77. The main upgrade is the inclusion of air-to-surface modes and so can be used in anti-ship role with the inclusion of missiles like KH-31A. BAF has already ordered a batch of KH-31A.

Most important thing is that it gives the BAF a better Mig-29 than the MAF Mig-29s which all still use the downgraded and older N-109E radar that can only fire the R-27 BVRAAM.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> I hope the new paint used is durable unlike that of the previous scheme.


Nothing is durable enough for bd humidity lol
Unless we get some western blends but even those chip


The Ronin said:


> BAF MIG-29BM flying over Belarus. 😍 Notice the different new nosecone. 🙂
> 
> View attachment 733116
> 
> 
> View attachment 733117
> 
> 
> View attachment 733118


What’s different from previous one?

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## F-6 enthusiast

An article about the Maintenance heavy and expensive MiG-29s Malaysia bought in 1999 (same time as us )
Full Frame: Malaysia's MiG-29N : Fulcrum Most Tenacious (daisetsuzan.blogspot.com)

This is an interesting excerpt from the article:

*Cheap To Own, Expensive To Use*

Part of the reason why the MiGs were expensive and difficult to maintain was that Russian equipment were generally not made to match the high standards of their western counterparts. They are generally simple to operate and rugged to allow for operations under austere conditions but are certainly not made to last. *They are relatively cheap to produce in large quantities so if any were to break down, they can be easily replaced rather than repaired.* According to Mark Bobbi of IHS, during the Cold War, the Soviet Union's massive defense spending resulted in and allowed for hugely wasteful procurement practices where by aircraft manufacturers such as Mikoyan Gurevich and Sukhoi would design so called " throwaway aircrafts ", expected to operate for ten years or so with little or no maintenance before they were scrapped and replaced with all new aircrafts. So if you are trying to get some Russian or legacy Soviet equipment repaired, be ready to face some real hurdles.

The quality of service and support from Russia is also simply not at the same level as those from Western companies like Boeing or Dassault. Apart from the language barrier, the work culture is entirely different. Business ethics may be non-existent, as the Russian supply chain is notoriously known to be the most inefficient and corrupt.

To make matters worse, the Malaysians themselves imposed restrictions as to who could supply parts and carry out maintenance works on their aircrafts. It seemed that only companies majority owned by indigenous people could qualify and they of course seized the opportunity to inflate prices, since there was little transparency and almost no competition. In the end, each* Fulcrum would cost $5 million to service annually, and that's in US Dollars*, not the Malaysian Riggit which in recent times had fallen to historical lows.


TLDR, BAF should avoid purchasing any Russian fighters in the future
We probably faced similar issues with maintenance of these fighters.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> An article about the Maintenance heavy and expensive MiG-29s Malaysia bought in 1999 (same time as us )
> Full Frame: Malaysia's MiG-29N : Fulcrum Most Tenacious (daisetsuzan.blogspot.com)
> 
> This is an interesting excerpt from the article:
> 
> *Cheap To Own, Expensive To Use*
> 
> Part of the reason why the MiGs were expensive and difficult to maintain was that Russian equipment were generally not made to match the high standards of their western counterparts. They are generally simple to operate and rugged to allow for operations under austere conditions but are certainly not made to last. *They are relatively cheap to produce in large quantities so if any were to break down, they can be easily replaced rather than repaired.* According to Mark Bobbi of IHS, during the Cold War, the Soviet Union's massive defense spending resulted in and allowed for hugely wasteful procurement practices where by aircraft manufacturers such as Mikoyan Gurevich and Sukhoi would design so called " throwaway aircrafts ", expected to operate for ten years or so with little or no maintenance before they were scrapped and replaced with all new aircrafts. So if you are trying to get some Russian or legacy Soviet equipment repaired, be ready to face some real hurdles.
> 
> The quality of service and support from Russia is also simply not at the same level as those from Western companies like Boeing or Dassault. Apart from the language barrier, the work culture is entirely different. Business ethics may be non-existent, as the Russian supply chain is notoriously known to be the most inefficient and corrupt.
> 
> To make matters worse, the Malaysians themselves imposed restrictions as to who could supply parts and carry out maintenance works on their aircrafts. It seemed that only companies majority owned by indigenous people could qualify and they of course seized the opportunity to inflate prices, since there was little transparency and almost no competition. In the end, each* Fulcrum would cost $5 million to service annually, and that's in US Dollars*, not the Malaysian Riggit which in recent times had fallen to historical lows.
> 
> 
> TLDR, BAF should avoid purchasing any Russian fighters in the future
> We probably faced similar issues with maintenance of these fighters.


First gen mig 29s non Warsaw exports were heavily downgraded both structurally and in instruments. So no surprise this happened. 
tbh rn any Chinese or Russian stuff are on par in quality. Mig 29 is notoriously more difficult To maintain than su27 and its derivatives. Mig 35 addresses the issues with commonality but you’reright they have no after sales support. Terrible customer service and zero business ethics. Corrupt af. 
pits best we deal with western nations but I would still buy f16s instead of EFT just because it has better quality: quantity ratio

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> pits best we deal with western nations but I would still buy f16s instead of EFT just because it has better quality: quantity ratio


If american jets were on the table , i would prefer F-18 over F-16. 
Longer range and *proven * maritime strike, SEAD capability. 

Forget all of that, why can't we just get Gripens ? the EW system is phenomenal and puts Rafale's EW system to shame. 
All you need for 1 squadron of gripens is one C-130 , fuel trucks , 10 conscripts and some officers (as ground crew) and paved road (about 800m) for takeoff and landing. 

These things cost less and BAF tried to get refurbished examples but now isn't considering them.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> If american jets were on the table , i would prefer F-18 over F-16.
> Longer range and *proven * maritime strike, SEAD capability.
> 
> Forget all of that, why can't we just get Gripens ? the EW system is phenomenal and puts Rafale's EW system to shame.
> All you need for 1 squadron of gripens is one C-130 , fuel trucks , 10 conscripts and some officers (as ground crew) and paved road (about 800m) for takeoff and landing.
> 
> These things cost less and BAF tried to get refurbished examples but now isn't considering them.


BAF is just as useless as the govt. if they were seriously about capabilities it’s not hard to choose

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## leonblack08

Michael Corleone said:


> BAF is just as useless as the govt. if they were seriously about capabilities it’s not hard to choose








Listening to this makes me feel the BAF chief is genuinely worried and wants to improve our capabilities. In fact he admits we are lagging behind. It appears his hands are tied because of bureaucracy and "who gets to make the deal" competition.

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## F-6 enthusiast

leonblack08 said:


> Listening to this makes me feel the BAF chief is genuinely worried and wants to improve our capabilities. In fact he admits we are lagging behind. It appears his hands are tied because of bureaucracy and "who gets to make the deal" competition.


The Ministry of Defence headed by PM is responsible for BAF's sorry state.


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## Michael Corleone

leonblack08 said:


> Listening to this makes me feel the BAF chief is genuinely worried and wants to improve our capabilities. In fact he admits we are lagging behind. It appears his hands are tied because of bureaucracy and "who gets to make the deal" competition.


He’s the prime ministers relative and although I know the guy tried to fix the situation how difficult is it to bring it to the PM ?


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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1236567833427754

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## Jobless Jack

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1236567833427754


Any chance he will sign deal for some turkish attack drones that BD desparetly needs more than the EFT?


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## mb444

Jobless Jack said:


> Any chance he will sign deal for some turkish attack drones that BD desparetly needs more than the EFT?



Your guess would be as good as anyone elses. Seeing this guys general BS since he took over I would say whilst there is a chance....it is extremely unlikely....

EFT if it materialises would happen without him rather than because of him. BAF and BA topjob has been given to BAL stalwarts who are subservient to hasina and india. BD sovereignty is not high on their priority list.

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## Jobless Jack

mb444 said:


> Your guess would be as good as anyone elses. Seeing this guys general BS since he took over I would say whilst there is a chance....it is extremely unlikely....
> 
> EFT if it materialises would happen without him rather than because of him. BAF and BA topjob has been given to BAL stalwarts who are subservient to hasina and india. BD sovereignty is not high on their priority list.


True.

And EFT gives generals a massive chance for commision without compromisimg Their masters.

Imagine the amaount of offensive drones and SAMs you could get for 4 billion though..

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## mb444

Jobless Jack said:


> True.
> 
> And EFT gives generals a massive chance for commision without compromisimg Their masters.
> 
> Imagine the amaount of offensive drones and SAMs you could get for 4 billion though..




Offensive drones are cheap and effective against ground targets as demonstrated in Azerbaijan. 

I have yet to see real life outcome of a drone vs jets though. I suspect the pendulum will swing to drones favor sooner or later...

Lets be honest IAF will think many times about going against EFT. Drones.... not much of a deterant.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Offensive drones are cheap and effective against ground targets as demonstrated in Azerbaijan.
> 
> I have yet to see real life outcome of a drone vs jets though. I suspect the pendulum will swing to drones favor sooner or later...
> 
> Lets be honest IAF will think many times about going against EFT. Drones.... not much of a deterant.


Do look at Boeing’s loyal wingman program. Sure can’t win at pure kinematic performace but can hold itself well enough in increasingly AI driven society.

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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> True.
> 
> And EFT gives generals a massive chance for commision without compromisimg Their masters.
> 
> Imagine the amaount of offensive drones and SAMs you could get for 4 billion though..


We do need drones and SAMs but they can't substitute fighter jets.
Drones have near zero counter measures against missiles while SAMs are useless against high flying jets.
Having said that spending 4 billion on 16 EFTs without building a backbone first with single engine fighters is comically stupid.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Having said that spending 4 billion on 16 EFTs without building a backbone first with single engine fighters is comically stupid.


i thought 2.9 billion USD was requested ? don't know where the 4 billion comes from. 
I believe BAF will at some time near 2025 issue a tender for single engine fighters to replace old F-7s

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i thought 2.9 billion USD was requested ? don't know where the 4 billion comes from.
> I believe BAF will at some time near 2025 issue a tender for single engine fighters to replace old F-7s


3 or 4 billion the point remains. BAF will struggle to find funding for single engine fighters for several years due to the massive debt the EFTs will bring. You watch.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> 3 or 4 billion the point remains. BAF will struggle to find funding for single engine fighters for several years due to the massive debt the EFTs will bring. You watch.


My fear is that once these f-7 start falling out of the sky (God forbid) , BAF will start the process of replacing them.
The F-7MB airframes shouldn't have much life left in them. They need to start the process of replacing them next year with an open tender not like the MRCA tender (made specifically for Russia) and went on
to waste 7 years twiddling their thumbs. Although, i'm glad we didn't get Su-30 and Mig-35.

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## F-6 enthusiast

*If* (*BIG IF ) *this source is to be trusted , BAF might get minimum weapons package. As long as Meteors and anti-ship are procured i think it should deter MyAF




__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.110165433876302/310429210516589





Also, anyone know when the F-7MBs where procured ? Maybe Ershad era ? Just asking

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> *If* (*BIG IF ) *this source is to be trusted , BAF might get minimum weapons package. As long as Meteors and anti-ship are procured i think it should deter MyAF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.110165433876302/310429210516589
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, anyone know when the F-7MBs where procured ? Maybe Ershad era ? Just asking



As long as meteor is there job done when it comes to air dominance.

J10 should be next on list...

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Do look at Boeing’s loyal wingman program. Sure can’t win at pure kinematic performace but can hold itself well enough in increasingly AI driven society.


Exactly BAF should focus on AI. Easy force milultiplier and maybe cheper but effective if purchased in large numbers


F-6 enthusiast said:


> *If* (*BIG IF ) *this source is to be trusted , BAF might get minimum weapons package. As long as Meteors and anti-ship are procured i think it should deter MyAF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.110165433876302/310429210516589
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, anyone know when the F-7MBs where procured ? Maybe Ershad era ? Just asking


So next year BD signs agreement of a plane to replace f7? Hopefully its J10.

But really the process is too slow. Once the awamileague goes, hopefully the pace will pickup.

Hopefully by 2025-2026 BAF has 1-2 squadrons of EFT, backed up by 3-4 suadrons of J10. 

Hopefully by that time BAF has better SAMs and drones.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Jobless Jack said:


> So next year BD signs agreement of a plane to replace f7? Hopefully its J10.


it was just my speculation. Nothing is confirmed and no steps have been taken.
I just wrote what BAF *needs to do, not will do. *

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i thought 2.9 billion USD was requested ? don't know where the 4 billion comes from.
> I believe BAF will at some time near 2025 issue a tender for single engine fighters to replace old F-7s





Destranator said:


> 3 or 4 billion the point remains. BAF will struggle to find funding for single engine fighters for several years due to the massive debt the EFTs will bring. You watch.


Exactly what’s going to happen. With building up capacity they cannot hope to reach capability parity with the neighbors. These guys from that source talk like 100% of EFT will be available at all times. 
😂
Currently mig 29s don’t have that level of uptime, they’ll argue. But even at 50% 8 fighter jets is nothing to defend skies with even in a BVR engagement since enemy force is likely to be greater in numbers

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Exactly what’s going to happen. With building up capacity they cannot hope to reach capability parity with the neighbors. These guys from that source talk like 100% of EFT will be available at all times.
> 😂
> Currently mig 29s don’t have that level of uptime, they’ll argue. But even at 50% 8 fighter jets is nothing to defend skies with even in a BVR engagement since enemy force is likely to be greater in numbers




The capacity constrains also impact our neigbouring countries. With a defensive posture 8 EFT for a time is fine.... there is nothing at all in the IAF inventory that compares other than raffles and we are unlikely to face the maximum of 18 raffles that could be available to IAF at any time when the full complement is handed over.

However saying all that BAF has no clue. I doubt their professionalism and morale. EFT is no instant fix, we need more fighters and in any conflict BA needs to take out the IAF bases to give BD breathing space. I disagree on the parity issue. Yes we can not match IAF in absolute numbers but with qualitatively better air dominance jets, adequate sam coverage, enough low performing jets for point defense we can defend BD. 

To take the fight to the enemy is another matter all together, it will require a quantum leap in capabilities and I doubt any one in BAF even by mistake ever considered such an option.

If I was a military planner and i would take the iranian option each and every time.... build a huge sam/ssm force.... then start building up other capabilities.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Looking at the conditions of IAF and BAF it gets clearer how successful the PAF is!! How do they maintain 400+ battle ready fighters with a meager budget?!?! Not to mention AWACS, EW, refueling, AD, radars etc.!!! And, that too with extensive ops, training, maintenance, weapons, in-house manufacturing, R&D etc.!! BAF should learn from PAF....

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## Jobless Jack

mb444 said:


> The capacity constrains also impact our neigbouring countries. With a defensive posture 8 EFT for a time is fine.... there is nothing at all in the IAF inventory that compares other than raffles and we are unlikely to face the maximum of 18 raffles that could be available to IAF at any time when the full complement is handed over.
> 
> However saying all that BAF has no clue. I doubt their professionalism and morale. EFT is no instant fix, we need more fighters and in any conflict BA needs to take out the IAF bases to give BD breathing space. I disagree on the parity issue. Yes we can not match IAF in absolute numbers but with qualitatively better air dominance jets, adequate sam coverage, enough low performing jets for point defense we can defend BD.
> 
> To take the fight to the enemy is another matter all together, it will require a quantum leap in capabilities and I doubt any one in BAF even by mistake ever considered such an option.
> 
> If I was a military planner and i would take the iranian option each and every time.... build a huge sam/ssm force.... then start building up other capabilities.


BA will have to build up its SAM and SRM game.

relying on BAF is suicide. 

Atleast SAM and short range cruise missles...

why is BAF so useless.

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Exactly what’s going to happen. With building up capacity they cannot hope to reach capability parity with the neighbors. These guys from that source talk like 100% of EFT will be available at all times.
> 😂
> Currently mig 29s don’t have that level of uptime, they’ll argue. But even at 50% 8 fighter jets is nothing to defend skies with even in a BVR engagement since enemy force is likely to be greater in numbers



Bangladeshi airspace is rather small, and I don't know if it is a solace or it is a curse. Meaning how many fighters will be needed....

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> The capacity constrains also impact our neigbouring countries. With a defensive posture 8 EFT for a time is fine.... there is nothing at all in the IAF inventory that compares other than raffles and we are unlikely to face the maximum of 18 raffles that could be available to IAF at any time when the full complement is handed over.
> 
> However saying all that BAF has no clue. I doubt their professionalism and morale. EFT is no instant fix, we need more fighters and in any conflict BA needs to take out the IAF bases to give BD breathing space. I disagree on the parity issue. Yes we can not match IAF in absolute numbers but with qualitatively better air dominance jets, adequate sam coverage, enough low performing jets for point defense we can defend BD.
> 
> To take the fight to the enemy is another matter all together, it will require a quantum leap in capabilities and I doubt any one in BAF even by mistake ever considered such an option.
> 
> If I was a military planner and i would take the iranian option each and every time.... build a huge sam/ssm force.... then start building up other capabilities.


While capacity constrains effect them too they’re in a much better position than BAF, with one squadron rafale deployed in eastern command and atleast one sukhoi, we are nowhere near minimum deterrence with 8 or 16 EFT
With that same 3.5-4 bln we could have gone for 2 squadron gripens. A much cost effective choice
If you remember I used to be against gripen but now after seeing our abysmal situation it’s a no brainer to select gripen or f16 block 60-70 for Bangladesh’s use case 


Bilal9 said:


> Bangladeshi airspace is rather small, and I don't know if it is a solace or it is a curse. Meaning how many fighters will be needed....


Bro British airspace was also tiny but they needed to have their planes saved up for massive assault ofc not comparable to modern warfare but quantity is necessary especially when you neighbor dwarfs you.
pakistan god their airforce model right. Have decent number of aircrafts that gets the job done well enough

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## Destranator

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Looking at the conditions of IAF and BAF it gets clearer how successful the PAF is!! How do they maintain 400+ battle ready fighters with a meager budget?!?! Not to mention AWACS, EW, refueling, AD, radars etc.!!! And, that too with extensive ops, training, maintenance, weapons, in-house manufacturing, R&D etc.!! BAF should learn from PAF....


A quality post from you??!!! What happened, everything okay at home?

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## Jobless Jack

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Looking at the conditions of IAF and BAF it gets clearer how successful the PAF is!! How do they maintain 400+ battle ready fighters with a meager budget?!?! Not to mention AWACS, EW, refueling, AD, radars etc.!!! And, that too with extensive ops, training, maintenance, weapons, in-house manufacturing, R&D etc.!! BAF should learn from PAF....


Well PAF has bigger territory to defend. So it needs all that equipment to function and serve its purpose.

As for BAF, they will have an easier time defending BD, but only if they show half they efficiency that PAF shows. 2-3 smart purchase and BAf can easily defend BD skies compared to the effort PAF has to put to defend their territory.

Heck, the way things are going BA might have to open their own fighter command..

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## Indos

Better spend on radar and medium range SAM system first until 2026 after that Bangladesh can try to order KF21 block 1 inshaAllah that I believe can be upgraded into block 2 by replacing the modular belly part into STEALTH version

China made or Norwegian made can be picked

NASAM






















KF-X Fighter Price Sets at 65 Million USD


KAI sets sights on Asia No. 1 in ‘new space’ era By Kim Byung-wook Korea‘s sole aircraft manufacturer aims to carve out a niche in satellite biz; KF-X fighter price set at $65m Published : Apr 4, 2021 - 16:30...



defence.pk

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## Indos

While latest version of Eurofighter cost about 153 million USD per unit and it cannot be upgraded into STEALTH version. According to Indonesian KFX/IFX team, KF 21 fuselage can conceal the engine heat and it has semi recessed 4 hard point to conceal the heat of missiles. So basically block 1 is quite STEALTHY if it only carry 4 AA missiles.

2030 above is STEALTH era, better think long term and right now Bangladesh is not facing immediate threat.

Here you can see semi recessed hard points, it has 10 hard points










Specs and capabilities, it has much hire T/W Ratio than Rafale and will use Meteor missile for BVR combat.


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## Indos

Modular belly part that I believe can be upgraded into block 2 belly modular part. The belly can carry 6 AA missiles and we also can see it possibly enough space for several bombs as well in full STEALTH version.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1323911862707122177





LIG Nex1 delivers EW self-protection system prototype for KF-X fighter aircraft


South Korean defence company LIG Nex1 has developed an electronic warfare (EW) self-protection system for integration with the Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) fighter...



www.janes.com


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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> While capacity constrains effect them too they’re in a much better position than BAF, with one squadron rafale deployed in eastern command and atleast one sukhoi, we are nowhere near minimum deterrence with 8 or 16 EFT
> With that same 3.5-4 bln we could have gone for 2 squadron gripens. A much cost effective choice
> If you remember I used to be against gripen but now after seeing our abysmal situation it’s a no brainer to select gripen or f16 block 60-70 for Bangladesh’s use case
> 
> Bro British airspace was also tiny but they needed to have their planes saved up for massive assault ofc not comparable to modern warfare but quantity is necessary especially when you neighbor dwarfs you.
> pakistan god their airforce model right. Have decent number of aircrafts that gets the job done well enough




No can not agree. Gripens can not withstand raffles, russian jets yes. 

EFT can dominate both. Sukhoi are toast from the outset... raffles will pose significant challenge but can be overcome.

There will be no wvr engagement..... it will all be bvr.... eft will see adversaries first, release missiles and leave the theatre for reload.

Barring catastrophic strategic or intelligence failure EFT should hold its own for a while eliminating IAF assets in numbers.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Jobless Jack said:


> Well PAF has bigger territory to defend. So it needs all that equipment to function and serve its purpose.
> 
> As for BAF, they will have an easier time defending BD, but only if they show half they efficiency that PAF shows. 2-3 smart purchase and BAf can easily defend BD skies compared to the effort PAF has to put to defend their territory.
> 
> Heck, the way things are going BA might have to open their own fighter command..


Many a top PAF pilot in the past were from the East Pak! PAF has named their bases after them! Really a sorry state for BAF....

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> No can not agree. Gripens can not withstand raffles, russian jets yes.
> 
> EFT can dominate both. Sukhoi are toast from the outset... raffles will pose significant challenge but can be overcome.
> 
> There will be no wvr engagement..... it will all be bvr.... eft will see adversaries first, release missiles and leave the theatre for reload.
> 
> Barring catastrophic strategic or intelligence failure EFT should hold its own for a while eliminating IAF assets in numbers.


Why do you think gripen won’t hold its own against rafale? 🤔
It has world class ecw and avionics suite and can hold its own against all us fighters including f15s, except f22 and f35s. Rafale is no where near the level of f22s so I would like to know why your conclusion is that


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## Jobless Jack

mb444 said:


> No can not agree. Gripens can not withstand raffles, russian jets yes.
> 
> EFT can dominate both. Sukhoi are toast from the outset... raffles will pose significant challenge but can be overcome.
> 
> There will be no wvr engagement..... it will all be bvr.... eft will see adversaries first, release missiles and leave the theatre for reload.
> 
> Barring catastrophic strategic or intelligence failure EFT should hold its own for a while eliminating IAF assets in numbers.


In all honesty i would rather have numbers. J10 produced inhouse. Thrown at IAF. Soviet style

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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> In all honesty i would rather have numbers. J10 produced inhouse. Thrown at IAF. Soviet style


I agree that we need numbers. Entire Bangladesh is within the range of Indian artillery/missiles. We will inevitably lose many fighters on the ground.

However, Gripen would be a much better choice than J-10 for many reasons including the below:
Network integration with EFTs. You can use the same AEW&C aircraft and network to connect EFTs and Gripens. On the other hand, if we get J-10s we would have to maintain two different sets of AEW&C networks and aircraft. Good luck getting BAF to find the balls to ask govt for two different sets of AEW&C aircraft.

AEW&C is absolutely vital for BAF because of our tight airspace. There is very little margin for error. BAF needs to be able to detect enemy aircraft and artillery movement and scramble its own fighters immediately.

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## Jobless Jack

Destranator said:


> I agree that we need numbers. Entire Bangladesh is within the range of Indian artillery/missiles. We will inevitably lose many fighters onnthe ground.
> 
> However, Gripen would be a much better choice than J-10 for many reasons including the below:
> Network integration with EFTs. You can use the same AEW&C aircraft and network to connect EFTs and Gripens. On the other hand, if we get J-10s we would have to maintain two different sets of AEW&C networks and aircraft. Good luck getting BAF to find the balls to ask govt for two different sets of AEW&C aircraft.


forget AEW's I will be happy the day I see BAF operating 20+ 4 gen MRCA's . 

will probably die from shock .

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> I agree that we need numbers. Entire Bangladesh is within the range of Indian artillery/missiles. We will inevitably lose many fighters on the ground.
> 
> However, Gripen would be a much better choice than J-10 for many reasons including the below:
> Network integration with EFTs. You can use the same AEW&C aircraft and network to connect EFTs and Gripens. On the other hand, if we get J-10s we would have to maintain two different sets of AEW&C networks and aircraft. Good luck getting BAF to find the balls to ask govt for two different sets of AEW&C aircraft.
> 
> AEW&C is absolutely vital for BAF because of our tight airspace. There is very little margin for error. BAF needs to be able to detect enemy aircraft and artillery movement and scramble its own fighters immediately.



Also, Gripen has better short field performance. 

Runways in BD are vulnerable. 

Dispersal is more feasible with Gripen although I don't know if there are highways in BD that allow for this to be possible.

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> Better spend on radar and medium range SAM system first until 2026 after that Bangladesh can try to order KF21 block 1 inshaAllah that I believe can be upgraded into block 2 by replacing the modular belly part into STEALTH version
> 
> China made or Norwegian made can be picked
> 
> NASAM
> 
> View attachment 735993
> 
> View attachment 735992
> 
> View attachment 735994
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KF-X Fighter Price Sets at 65 Million USD
> 
> 
> KAI sets sights on Asia No. 1 in ‘new space’ era By Kim Byung-wook Korea‘s sole aircraft manufacturer aims to carve out a niche in satellite biz; KF-X fighter price set at $65m Published : Apr 4, 2021 - 16:30...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk





I agree with ordering MRSAM first but like I already said for strategic reasons BAF cannot order the KF-X fighter.
TF-X and J-35s should be the 5th gen fighters of choice for BD.


mb444 said:


> No can not agree. Gripens can not withstand raffles, russian jets yes.
> 
> EFT can dominate both. Sukhoi are toast from the outset... raffles will pose significant challenge but can be overcome.
> 
> There will be no wvr engagement..... it will all be bvr.... eft will see adversaries first, release missiles and leave the theatre for reload.
> 
> Barring catastrophic strategic or intelligence failure EFT should hold its own for a while eliminating IAF assets in numbers.




Who said a Gripen with AESA radar, upgraded electronics and Meteor cannot take on a Rafale? The area where Rafale really excels over Gripen is air-to-ground as it can carry a much heavier ordnance load.

I would think that there would be more air-to-air difference between EFT and Rafale than that between Rafale and Gripen.




Avicenna said:


> Also, Gripen has better short field performance.
> 
> Runways in BD are vulnerable.
> 
> Dispersal is more feasible with Gripen although I don't know if there are highways in BD that allow for this to be possible.





There are plenty of 4-6 lane highways being built in BD right now that can be will be suitable for Gripen.

Yes, that is another big advantage of Gripen as it would allow dispersal of the BAF fleet in case of war with India, where it's airbases would come under constant attack from bombs, missiles and MLRS.

I think that unfortunately the Gripen ship has sailed now and BAF looks likely to order 16 EFTs for its MRCA requirement.

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## Jobless Jack

Avicenna said:


> Also, Gripen has better short field performance.
> 
> Runways in BD are vulnerable.
> 
> Dispersal is more feasible with Gripen although I don't know if there are highways in BD that allow for this to be possible.



The effectiveness of this tactic will Depend on how long can BA hold the ground against IA before using guerilla tactics 

In any conflict with India, BAF's role will be crucial in the first 3-4 days. after that its just interception duty..


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## mb444

Indos said:


> While latest version of Eurofighter cost about 153 million USD per unit and it cannot be upgraded into STEALTH version. According to Indonesian KFX/IFX team, KF 21 fuselage can conceal the engine heat and it has semi recessed 4 hard point to conceal the heat of missiles. So basically block 1 is quite STEALTHY if it only carry 4 AA missiles.
> 
> 2030 above is STEALTH era, better think long term and right now Bangladesh is not facing immediate threat.
> 
> Here you can see semi recessed hard points, it has 10 hard points
> 
> View attachment 735998
> 
> View attachment 735999
> 
> 
> Specs and capabilities, it has much hire T/W Ratio than Rafale





UKBengali said:


> I agree with ordering MRSAM first but like I already said for strategic reasons BAF cannot order the KF-X fighter.
> TF-X and J-35s should be the 5th gen fighters of choice for BD.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said a Gripen with AESA radar, upgraded electronics and Meteor cannot take on a Rafale? The area where Rafale really excels over Gripen is air-to-ground as it can carry a much heavier ordnance load.
> 
> I would think that there would be more air-to-air difference between EFT and Rafale than that between Rafale and Gripen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty of 4-6 lane highways being built in BD right now that can be will be suitable for Gripen.
> 
> Yes, that is another big advantage of Gripen as it would allow dispersal of the BAF fleet in case of war with India, where it's airbases would come under constant attack from bombs, missiles and MLRS.
> 
> I think that unfortunately the Gripen ship has sailed now and BAF looks likely to order 16 EFTs for its MRCA requirement.




Grippen is a capable fighter that can hold its own against raffle. 

But given BAF will always have a quantitative disadvantage against IAF what deterrance value is their getting an on par jet?

EFT on the other hand is better than raffle in terms of air dominance. BAF needs quality where it can not match quantity....it also needs the greatest range and loitering capacity.

Grippen dispersal strategies is entirely irrelevant....we can not afford them in numbers for it to matter. Swedish asset dispersal strategy is there to slow russian advance and buy time until the west mobilises and comes to their aid.

BD has no such alliance. We are on our own. So we need to get the biggest and most deadly platform we can get. Our only chance is to hit IAF hard and fast... we can not afford any war of attrition.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Grippen dispersal strategies is entirely irrelevant....we can not afford them in numbers for it to matter. Swedish asset dispersal strategy is there to slow russian advance and buy time until the west mobilises and comes to their aid.
> 
> BD has no such alliance. We are on our own. So we need to get the biggest and most deadly platform we can get. Our only chance is to hit IAF hard and fast... we can not afford any war of attrition.




Fair enough but I would have to disagree with Gripen's dispersal strategy angle. Having the option of being able to take off from the thousands of kms of motorways that have been and will be built in BD over this decade always gives you more options.

Also remember that BAF can buy and operate twice as many Gripens as EFT and so would 16 EFTs be a better deterrent than 32-40 Gripens? I would say yes, as the EFT is a fair bit better in the air-to-air role than the Rafale that India would have.

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Why do you think gripen won’t hold its own against rafale? 🤔
> It has world class ecw and avionics suite and can hold its own against all us fighters including f15s, except f22 and f35s. Rafale is no where near the level of f22s so I would like to know why your conclusion is that



It can, but its range is smaller with much less loitering time. It is also slower.

In wvr combat scenario grippen has advantage but in terms of BVR it can not compete. 

Really twin engine gets with greater service ceiling simply needs fly high look down and take out jets below it...

This is how grippen will lose each and every time against rafale.

For the same reasons why EFT will also win against rafale.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> It can, but its range is smaller with much less loitering time. It is also slower.
> 
> In wvr combat scenario grippen has advantage but in terms of BVR it can not compete.
> 
> Really twin engine gets with greater service ceiling simply needs fly high look down and take out jets below it...
> 
> This is how grippen will lose each and every time against rafale.
> 
> For the same reasons why EFT will also win against rafale.


Fair enough.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Fair enough but I would have to disagree with Gripen's dispersal strategy angle. Having the option of being able to take off from the thousands of kms of motorways that have been and will be built in BD over this decade always gives you more options.
> 
> Also remember that BAF can buy and operate twice as many Gripens as EFT and so would 16 EFTs be a better deterrent than 32-40 Gripens? I would say yes, as the EFT is a fair bit better in the air-to-air role than the Rafale that India would have.




Dispersing assets is obviously a great strategy but we will need numbers for it to make sense. Swedish position is a sound one and BD can learn from this. However we have so few proper capable jets that i would contend we need to keep them together to ensure greatest punch can be delivered. The philosophy is an old one developed by artilary brigades who found that even though dispersing assets increases longevity, ultimately artilary is most effective in concentration.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Dispersing assets is obviously a great strategy but we will need numbers for it to make sense. Swedish position is a sound one and BD can learn from this. However we have so few proper capable jets that i would contend we need to keep them together to ensure greatest punch can be delivered. The philosophy is an old one developed by artilary brigades who found that even though dispersing assets increases longevity, ultimately artilary is most effective in concentration.




Well artillery and jet fighters are not the same thing.

Jet fighters can be physically spaced 10s of kms apart but still come together in minutes when needed in combat.

BAF will one day operate over 100 fighter aircraft although probably not this decade.

I really think that BD due to geography should start looking at building a dispersal infrastructure along the lines of Sweden. It does not want to be in a situation where it loses all its fighter aircraft on the first day with a mass attack by bombs, missiles and MLRS by India.

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## Avicenna

Both Eurofighter and Gripen!

Then 2035+ 1 squadron of a 5th gen.

Who says no?

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Well artillery and jet fighters are not the same thing.
> 
> Jet fighters can be physically spaced 10s of kms apart but still come together in minutes when needed in combat.
> 
> BAF will one day operate over 100 fighter aircraft although probably not this decade.
> 
> I really think that BD due to geography should start looking at building a dispersal infrastructure along the lines of Sweden. It does not want to be in a situation where it loses all its fighter aircraft on the first day with a mass attack by bombs, missiles and MLRS by India.




I dont disagree with your point in any way.


Avicenna said:


> Both Eurofighter and Gripen!
> 
> Then 2035+ 1 squadron of a 5th gen.
> 
> Who says no?
> 
> View attachment 736344



Certainly makes sense vis a vis weapons package, EW suites.


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## BOGGieMan

Talking about buying gripen. Don't we need to sign deal with USA because it has American Engine.


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## The Ronin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385942011484778498

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385942011484778498


To be more specific, the award given was the "United Nations Distinguished Rideshare Medal (UNDRM)".

Every trips made during the elections received 5 stars.


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## Michael Corleone

BOGGieMan said:


> Talking about buying gripen. Don't we need to sign deal with USA because it has American Engine.


Those engines aren’t top of the line. You could get that from Rockwell’s global supply chain


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> It can, but its range is smaller with much less loitering time. It is also slower.
> 
> In wvr combat scenario grippen has advantage but in terms of BVR it can not compete.
> 
> Really twin engine gets with greater service ceiling simply needs fly high look down and take out jets below it...
> 
> This is how grippen will lose each and every time against rafale.
> 
> For the same reasons why EFT will also win against rafale.




I have to disagree here.

There is more of a difference between EFT and Rafale than Rafale to Gripen in BVR.

Let us take a BVR fight between the AESA and Meteor equipped Rafale and the AESA and Meteor equipped Gripen E or C version with plug-in Swedish AESA radar and upgraded electronics:

Rafale service ceiling and max speed at altitude: 16 000m and Mach 1.8
Gripen service ceiling and max speed at altitude: 15-16000m and Mach 2.0


Although the Rafale has greater T/W ratio, it does not have the canard-delta design and so probably in high altitude BVR duels, they would be somewhat equal in aerodynamic manouverability although the Rafale would have the edge in terms of range and weapons load.


I would think that you can say that EFT would win almost every single time against Rafale but you cannot say the same about Rafale against Gripen with AESA radar and Meteor.

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## Gomig-21

Avicenna said:


> Both Eurofighter and Gripen!
> 
> Then 2035+ 1 squadron of a 5th gen.
> 
> Who says no?



Hey man, so for us outsiders who are very supportive and inquisitive as to what the BAF is going to do next, is the Eurtofighter Typhoon deal a tender or is it an official request by the BAF to look into the possibility of acquiring what, 8 of them? Love that aircraft and hope it comes to fruition.

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## The Ronin

Gomig-21 said:


> Hey man, so for us outsiders who are very supportive and inquisitive as to what the BAF is going to do next, is the Eurtofighter Typhoon deal a tender or is it an official request by the BAF to look into the possibility of acquiring what, 8 of them? Love that aircraft and hope it comes to fruition.



16, under G2G deal. Previous tender is cancelled.

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## Gomig-21

The Ronin said:


> 16, under G2G deal. Previous tender is cancelled.



Forgive the ignorance, but what is the G2G deal? Does that mean they have or will be signing a contract soon?


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## The Ronin

Gomig-21 said:


> Forgive the ignorance, but what is the G2G deal? Does that mean they have or will be signing a contract soon?



Government to government purchase directly. They just asked for $3 billion budget for the procurement.

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## Avicenna

Gomig-21 said:


> Hey man, so for us outsiders who are very supportive and inquisitive as to what the BAF is going to do next, is the Eurtofighter Typhoon deal a tender or is it an official request by the BAF to look into the possibility of acquiring what, 8 of them? Love that aircraft and hope it comes to fruition.



Not sure about specifics.

Only putting together publicly known info.

Just to summarize, BAF has a requirement.

The initial tender was 8 + 4 options pre-2017 which was phrased to be essentially a lock for a twin engined Russian type.

The Yak purchase was probably suggestive of this approach.

I think the Rohingya issues in late 2017 altered the politics of things.

Subsequently, I think Russia is out and the West has become a viable option at this point.

The requirement increased to 16 as per BD officials in official verifiable statements.

There were rumors of Eurofighter after UK offered to "help" Bangladesh acquire "high-caliber" fighters.

Leonardo and BAF are talking and have an established relationship.

For me who is a hardcore skeptic of all things BAF, the confirmation that there may be something to BAF purchasing something big ticket was the French Defence Minister coming to Dhaka and speaking with Hasina.

That meant someone smelled money.

Finally a Eurofighter website listed Bangladesh as a potential customer.

The links to the various sources I have pointed too are found earlier in this thread.

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## Gomig-21

Avicenna said:


> Not sure about specifics.
> 
> Only putting together publicly known info.
> 
> Just to summarize, BAF has a requirement.
> 
> The initial tender was 8 + 4 options pre-2017 which was phrased to be essentially a lock for a twin engined Russian type.
> 
> The Yak purchase was probably suggestive of this approach.
> 
> I think the Rohingya issues in late 2017 altered the politics of things.
> 
> Subsequently, I think Russia is out and the West has become a viable option at this point.
> 
> The requirement increased to 16 as per BD officials in official verifiable statements.
> 
> There were rumors of Eurofighter after UK offered to "help" Bangladesh acquire "high-caliber" fighters.
> 
> Leonardo and BAF are talking and have an established relationship.
> 
> For me who is a hardcore skeptic of all things BAF, the confirmation that there may be something to BAF purchasing something big ticket was the French Defence Minister coming to Dhaka and speaking with Hasina.
> 
> That meant someone smelled money.
> 
> Finally a Eurofighter website listed Bangladesh as a potential customer.
> 
> The links to the various sources I have pointed too are found earlier in this thread.



Excellent. Thanks for the thorough explanation. Man I truly hope the EFT deal goes through including the option. I truly believe the French kinda screwed us on our option for an additional 12 Rafales on top of the 24 we bought. When any contract stipulates an option for an individual or country, that is almost a guarantee as long as the funds are in order and they certainly are because the EAF is trying to acquire more than just the 12 but why the French don't offer the 12 immediately as part of the option and its requirements and then create a separate contract for additional aircraft? That makes me very skeptical of them and how long it took for them to strike a deal with India. It' s always about the money I don't need to tell you that but that's not the issue here, hence why I have lost almost all confidence in the French as far as more Rafales and when Leonardo offered 24 Typhoons with the 2 Berghaminni FREMMs and 20 OPV corvettes and 24 M346 Aramicchis etc.

Italy-Egypt to sign mega defence deal soon - EDEX 2021 - The 2nd Edition of Egypt's Only International Defence Expo (egyptdefenceexpo.com)

So far we've agreed on t of the FREMMs and the OPVs but I think they'll decide on the Typhoons if France just doesn't want to make it work for whatever reason.

I said go for the Typhoons immediately and add them to the Rafales. There's a reason why Saudi Arabia chose to purchase what, 72 Typhoons? A lot has to do with the American compatibility they already have with their F-15s but it's also a superb aircraft, It has the sexiest radome out of all with the SU-35 coming in 2nd because they changed it for the new gimbal rotation on the IRBIS radar. 

Typhoon doesn't really have a lot of American constraints since radar and engines and frame/body are all done by the consortium of BAE/UK?GERMANY and Leonardo of Italy who holds a large share of the pie. The only American items I think are being able to integrate GBU laser guided bombs but who cares, use the German IRSTs BVRAAMs and Brimestone missiles for now. Then get the meteors once they approve foreign sales. That'll be awesome.

I hope they paint them in those awesome blue colors like the MiG-29s!

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## Avicenna

Gomig-21 said:


> Excellent. Thanks for the thorough explanation. Man I truly hope the EFT deal goes through including the option. I truly believe the French kinda screwed us on our option for an additional 12 Rafales on top of the 24 we bought. When any contract stipulates an option for an individual or country, that is almost a guarantee as long as the funds are in order and they certainly are because the EAF is trying to acquire more than just the 12 but why the French don't offer the 12 immediately as part of the option and its requirements and then create a separate contract for additional aircraft? That makes me very skeptical of them and how long it took for them to strike a deal with India. It' s always about the money I don't need to tell you that but that's not the issue here, hence why I have lost almost all confidence in the French as far as more Rafales and when Leonardo offered 24 Typhoons with the 2 Berghaminni FREMMs and 20 OPV corvettes and 24 M346 Aramicchis etc.
> 
> Italy-Egypt to sign mega defence deal soon - EDEX 2021 - The 2nd Edition of Egypt's Only International Defence Expo (egyptdefenceexpo.com)
> 
> So far we've agreed on t of the FREMMs and the OPVs but I think they'll decide on the Typhoons if France just doesn't want to make it work for whatever reason.
> 
> I said go for the Typhoons immediately and add them to the Rafales. There's a reason why Saudi Arabia chose to purchase what, 72 Typhoons? A lot has to do with the American compatibility they already have with their F-15s but it's also a superb aircraft, It has the sexiest radome out of all with the SU-35 coming in 2nd because they changed it for the new gimbal rotation on the IRBIS radar.
> 
> Typhoon doesn't really have a lot of American constraints since radar and engines and frame/body are all done by the consortium of BAE/UK?GERMANY and Leonardo of Italy who holds a large share of the pie. The only American items I think are being able to integrate GBU laser guided bombs but who cares, use the German IRSTs BVRAAMs and Brimestone missiles for now. Then get the meteors once they approve foreign sales. That'll be awesome.
> 
> I hope they paint them in those awesome blue colors like the MiG-29s!









Aroma of money > Aroma of Fresh Baked Baguettes (Pitch for Rafale over Eurofighter?)



https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/weapon-system-of-choice



"This is a programme that is very much alive. The contract sends a strong message to potential export countries like Finland, Switzerland, Egypt and Bangladesh that they can be assured that this aircraft will be in service up to 2060." (Quote taken from above article)

It's good for Bangladesh to handle its defense capabilities with more care as I hope they are realizing what a BJP led India means for them despite the sometimes sweet words.

As for Egypt, I wish you guys well but hope that you realize the game Israel plays though the West in containing its neighbors.

Specifically I would love for Egypt and Turkey to cooperate rather than compete, although you are much more familiar with the nuances of the situation than I am.

All these defense acquisitions by countries are really more often than not a reflection of the politics at play.

Also, really hoping any BAF Eurofighters come in a low viz gray camo!

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## ghost250

বিমান বাহিনী প্রধানের তুরস্ক সফর শেষে দেশে প্রত্যাবর্তন
ঢাকা, ২৬ এপ্রিলঃ- বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান এয়ার চীফ মার্শাল মাসিহুজ্জামান সেরনিয়াবাত, বিবিপি, ওএসপি, এনডিইউ, পিএসসি তুরস্ক সফর শেষে রবিবার (২৫-০৪-২০২১) বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর একটি C-130J বিমানের মাধ্যমে দেশে প্রত্যাবর্তন করেছেন।
সফরকালে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান তুরস্কের প্রতিষ্ঠাতা মোস্তফা কামাল আতাতুর্ক এর সমাধি (Anitkabir) পরিদর্শন করেন এবং সমাধিতে পুষ্পস্তবক অর্পনের মাধ্যমে তাঁর প্রতি শ্রদ্ধা জ্ঞাপন করেন। তুরস্ক অবস্থানকালে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান Commander of Turkish Air Force General Hasan Küçükakyüz ছাড়াও Turkish General Staff (TGS) Commander General Yaşar Güler, Turkish Army Force Commander General Ümit DÜNDAR এবং Commander of Turkish Navy Force Admiral Adnan Özbal এর সাথে সৌজন্য সাক্ষাত এবং পারস্পারিক দ্বিপাক্ষিক স্বার্থ সংশ্লিষ্ট বিষয়ে মত বিনিময় করেন। এছাড়াও, তিনি Air Combat Force Commander এবং Commander of Air Force Academy সহ ঊর্ধ্বতন সামরিক ও বেসামরিক কর্মকর্তাদের সাথে পেশাগত বিষয়ে আলোচনা করেন। সফরকালে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান সেদেশের বিমান বাহিনীর বিভিন্ন ঘাঁটি, বিমান বাহিনী একাডেমি, সামরিক জাদুঘর, এভিয়েশন মিউজিয়াম সহ সামরিক ও বেসামরিক প্রতিষ্ঠান পরিদর্শন করেন।
বিমান বাহিনী প্রধানের এই সফরের মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশ ও তুরস্কের মধ্যে বিদ্যমান সৌহাদ্যপূর্ণ সম্পর্ক সুদৃঢ় ও পেশাগত খাতে পারষ্পরিক সহযোগিতার পরিধি সম্প্র্রসারিত হবে। এছাড়াও, তুরস্ক বিমান বাহিনী ও তুরস্কের শীর্ষ পর্যায়ের সামরিক ও বেসামরিক ব্যক্তিবর্গের সাথে বাংলাদেশ ও তুরস্ক বিমান বাহিনীর ভবিষ্যৎ পরিকল্পনা সংক্রান্ত বিষয়ে ফলপ্রসু মত বিনিময় করার সুযোগ হবে বলে আশা করা যায়। উক্ত সফর হতে অর্জিত অভিজ্ঞতা কাজে লাগিয়ে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীতে ভবিষ্যতে তাত্ত্বিক ও প্রাতিষ্ঠানিক জ্ঞানের পরিধি বিস্তারের বিশেষ সুযোগ সৃষ্টি হবে।
*উল্লেখ্য যে, বিমান বাহিনীর প্রধান এর এই ফিরতি ফ্লাইটে তুরস্কে ‘TIGER MLRS’ প্রশিক্ষণে অংশগ্রহণকারী বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনীর ৪১ জন সদস্যকে বিমান বাহিনীর সি-১৩০জে পরিবহন বিমানের মাধ্যমে দেশে ফিরিয়ে আনা হয়। বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর প্রধান Commander, Turkish Air Force এর আমন্ত্রণে গত ১৮-০৪-২০২১ তারিখে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর একটি C-130J বিমানের মাধ্যমে তুরস্ক সফরের উদ্দেশ্যে ঢাকা ত্যাগ করেছিলেন।*

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## Destranator

ghost250 said:


> বিমান বাহিনী প্রধানের তুরস্ক সফর শেষে দেশে প্রত্যাবর্তন
> ঢাকা, ২৬ এপ্রিলঃ- বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান এয়ার চীফ মার্শাল মাসিহুজ্জামান সেরনিয়াবাত, বিবিপি, ওএসপি, এনডিইউ, পিএসসি তুরস্ক সফর শেষে রবিবার (২৫-০৪-২০২১) বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর একটি C-130J বিমানের মাধ্যমে দেশে প্রত্যাবর্তন করেছেন।
> সফরকালে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান তুরস্কের প্রতিষ্ঠাতা মোস্তফা কামাল আতাতুর্ক এর সমাধি (Anitkabir) পরিদর্শন করেন এবং সমাধিতে পুষ্পস্তবক অর্পনের মাধ্যমে তাঁর প্রতি শ্রদ্ধা জ্ঞাপন করেন। তুরস্ক অবস্থানকালে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান Commander of Turkish Air Force General Hasan Küçükakyüz ছাড়াও Turkish General Staff (TGS) Commander General Yaşar Güler, Turkish Army Force Commander General Ümit DÜNDAR এবং Commander of Turkish Navy Force Admiral Adnan Özbal এর সাথে সৌজন্য সাক্ষাত এবং পারস্পারিক দ্বিপাক্ষিক স্বার্থ সংশ্লিষ্ট বিষয়ে মত বিনিময় করেন। এছাড়াও, তিনি Air Combat Force Commander এবং Commander of Air Force Academy সহ ঊর্ধ্বতন সামরিক ও বেসামরিক কর্মকর্তাদের সাথে পেশাগত বিষয়ে আলোচনা করেন। সফরকালে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী প্রধান সেদেশের বিমান বাহিনীর বিভিন্ন ঘাঁটি, বিমান বাহিনী একাডেমি, সামরিক জাদুঘর, এভিয়েশন মিউজিয়াম সহ সামরিক ও বেসামরিক প্রতিষ্ঠান পরিদর্শন করেন।
> বিমান বাহিনী প্রধানের এই সফরের মাধ্যমে বাংলাদেশ ও তুরস্কের মধ্যে বিদ্যমান সৌহাদ্যপূর্ণ সম্পর্ক সুদৃঢ় ও পেশাগত খাতে পারষ্পরিক সহযোগিতার পরিধি সম্প্র্রসারিত হবে। এছাড়াও, তুরস্ক বিমান বাহিনী ও তুরস্কের শীর্ষ পর্যায়ের সামরিক ও বেসামরিক ব্যক্তিবর্গের সাথে বাংলাদেশ ও তুরস্ক বিমান বাহিনীর ভবিষ্যৎ পরিকল্পনা সংক্রান্ত বিষয়ে ফলপ্রসু মত বিনিময় করার সুযোগ হবে বলে আশা করা যায়। উক্ত সফর হতে অর্জিত অভিজ্ঞতা কাজে লাগিয়ে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীতে ভবিষ্যতে তাত্ত্বিক ও প্রাতিষ্ঠানিক জ্ঞানের পরিধি বিস্তারের বিশেষ সুযোগ সৃষ্টি হবে।
> *উল্লেখ্য যে, বিমান বাহিনীর প্রধান এর এই ফিরতি ফ্লাইটে তুরস্কে ‘TIGER MLRS’ প্রশিক্ষণে অংশগ্রহণকারী বাংলাদেশ সেনাবাহিনীর ৪১ জন সদস্যকে বিমান বাহিনীর সি-১৩০জে পরিবহন বিমানের মাধ্যমে দেশে ফিরিয়ে আনা হয়। বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর প্রধান Commander, Turkish Air Force এর আমন্ত্রণে গত ১৮-০৪-২০২১ তারিখে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীর একটি C-130J বিমানের মাধ্যমে তুরস্ক সফরের উদ্দেশ্যে ঢাকা ত্যাগ করেছিলেন।*
> View attachment 737560


Have the Facebook and YT defence channels started claiming we are buying T-129s yet?
Maybe Serniabat brought a few along in CKD form on board the C-130?

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Have the Facebook and YT defence channels started claiming we are buying T-129s yet?
> Maybe Serniabat brought a few along in CKD form on board the C-130?


HURKUS CONFIRMED 😂

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## ghost250

Michael Corleone said:


> HURKUS CONFIRMED 😂











Turkey to export armed Hürküş aircraft as projects gain pace


Turkey will soon export its domestically developed Hürkuş-C armed close air support and training aircraft to a yet undisclosed country, according to its...




www.dailysabah.com





Turkey will soon export its domestically developed Hürkuş-C armed close air support and training aircraft to a yet undisclosed country .

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## Michael Corleone

ghost250 said:


> Turkey to export armed Hürküş aircraft as projects gain pace
> 
> 
> Turkey will soon export its domestically developed Hürkuş-C armed close air support and training aircraft to a yet undisclosed country, according to its...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailysabah.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey will soon export its domestically developed Hürkuş-C armed close air support and training aircraft to a yet undisclosed country .


Great 😂 I’m so good at predictions lol


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## Rahil Ahmed

ghost250 said:


> Turkey to export armed Hürküş aircraft as projects gain pace
> 
> 
> Turkey will soon export its domestically developed Hürkuş-C armed close air support and training aircraft to a yet undisclosed country, according to its...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailysabah.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey will soon export its domestically developed Hürkuş-C armed close air support and training aircraft to a yet undisclosed country .


Wait is it for real going to be us ?


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## Avicenna

Just came across this.

Thoughts?







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387218243945844737

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Just came across this.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 738080
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387218243945844737


Defseca back with their "Country X vying to appease Bangladesh" theme.

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## Jobless Jack

Avicenna said:


> Just came across this.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 738080
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387218243945844737


If they come with TOT excellent. This will upgrade BAF . Although it will be like putting a band aid on a hemorrhage.

But I guess something is better than nothing ? 

What I really wished was we would hear something about J10.


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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> Just came across this.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 738080
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387218243945844737



Sounds too good to be true. But then again I won't be surprised if this ends up happening. These are chump change for China anyway.


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## The Ronin

Avicenna said:


> Just came across this.
> 
> Thoughts?





Destranator said:


> Defseca back with their "Country X vying to appease Bangladesh" theme.



Probably heard something in that webinar. Looking for that since yesterday.


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## Michael Corleone

Here comes the incoming praise how j10 is so advanced and a much better choice than f16 and gripen for single engined fighter tender

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Here comes the incoming praise how j10 is so advanced and a much better choice than f16 and gripen for single engined fighter tender


The gripen has exceptional EW warfare capabilities and datalink making it effective even without AWACs.
Not sure if this guy is a paid gripen shill, but *if what he claims is true* then the gripen is certainly better.




More discussion has been done in this sub-forum about what's best for BAF than within BAF itself.


Destranator said:


> Defseca back with their "Country X vying to appease Bangladesh" theme.


F-35 failed to meet the standards set by BAF 😆

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## mb444

A few years ago BD buying EFT would have been a dream..... now we are talking about potentially EFT/Grippen mix for BAF.....


Maybe we are all collectively loosing the plot alongside BAF after a year of lockdown

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> The gripen has exceptional EW warfare capabilities and datalink making it effective even without AWACs.
> Not sure if this guy is a paid gripen shill, but *if what he claims is true* then the gripen is certainly better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More discussion has been done in this sub-forum about what's best for BAF than within BAF itself.
> 
> F-35 failed to meet the standards set by BAF 😆


For the money gripen is a no brainer. The money that buys us 16 EFT will buy us 34 gripens. Given 50 percent availability rate, it’s already at an advantage against Indian rafale and sukhoi on numerical advantage atleast with what they have deployed in the eastern command. Remember their eastern asset cannot be all allocated against us. They have China in the north

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> For the money gripen is a no brainer. The money that buys us 16 EFT will buy us 34 gripens. Given 50 percent availability rate, it’s already at an advantage against Indian rafale and sukhoi on numerical advantage atleast with what they have deployed in the eastern command. Remember their eastern asset cannot be all allocated against us. They have China in the north



Agree with everything but the red bit.
We should never assume that India would have to simultaneously engage at multiple fronts.
Pakistan and China will never take military action to protect Bangladesh, meaning India can always divert resources from any part of India while engaging Bangladesh.

In other words, even neutralising the entire eastern commands of Indian Armed Forces would not be enough to protect BD.

We need numbers to be able survive and retaliate against Indian aerial and artillery onslaughts.

A combination of 100+ fighters, LRSAMs, MRSAMS, SRBMs, GMLRS, land attack cruise missiles (launched from land, sea and air) and unguided artillery can protect us.

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## Jobless Jack

Destranator said:


> Agree with everything but the red bit.
> We should never assume that India would have to simultaneously engage at multiple fronts.
> Pakistan and China will never take military action to protect Bangladesh, meaning India can always divert resources from any part of India while engaging Bangladesh.
> 
> In other words, even neutralising the entire eastern commands of Indian Armed Forces would not be enough to protect BD.
> 
> We need numbers to be able survive and retaliate against Indian aerial and artillery onslaughts.
> 
> A combination of 100+ fighters, LRSAMs, MRSAMS, SRBMs, GMLRS, land attack cruise missiles (launched from land, sea and air) and unguided artillery can protect us.



Yes but BD will never go to war with india, unless there is some reassurance of backup from china. Nor will BD go against Indian interest unless it gets some form of reassurance form China. That means either a) the Chinese will militarily intervene b) cause enough chaos that significant indian assets are deployed at India china border so that they are not used against BD.

BD is not isreal. Not for the next 10 years. 

But she will do well to follow the aggressive Israeli approach to national defense.


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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> Yes but BD will never go to war with india, unless there is some reassurance of backup from china. Nor will BD go against Indian interest unless it gets some form of reassurance form China. That means either a) the Chinese will militarily intervene b) cause enough chaos that significant indian assets are deployed at India china border so that they are not used against BD.
> 
> BD is not isreal. Not for the next 10 years.
> 
> But she will do well to follow the aggressive Israeli approach to national defense.


War does not work like that. You don't plan and agree with stakeholders in advance to check whether the war fits in their future calenders.
China will assure dick as they have a common sense policy of non-intervention.

India would not be foolish enough to attack Bangladesh at a time when things are already tense with another neighbour. In other words, when India attacks, we will be completely on our own until the UN/West intervenes after prolonged deliberations. The idea is to hold India at bay until the UN intervenes.

Being the Israel of South Asia is Bangladesh's only resort.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Agree with everything but the red bit.
> We should never assume that India would have to simultaneously engage at multiple fronts.
> Pakistan and China will never take military action to protect Bangladesh, meaning India can always divert resources from any part of India while engaging Bangladesh.
> 
> In other words, even neutralising the entire eastern commands of Indian Armed Forces would not be enough to protect BD.
> 
> We need numbers to be able survive and retaliate against Indian aerial and artillery onslaughts.
> 
> A combination of 100+ fighters, LRSAMs, MRSAMS, SRBMs, GMLRS, land attack cruise missiles (launched from land, sea and air) and unguided artillery can protect us.


That’s assuming bd will go to a war with India, the only likely scenario is bd joining the Chinese when india tries to strong arm us and annex bd. Bd’s engagement with India will only happen as a matter of existential crisis. Not what you see regularly happening betwem Pakistan and India


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> That’s assuming bd will go to a war with India, the only likely scenario is bd joining the Chinese when india tries to strong arm us and annex bd. Bd’s engagement with India will only happen as a matter of existential crisis. Not what you see regularly happening betwem Pakistan and India


No, this is assuming India would attack first which by default would be an existential threat. It is certainly possible that a right wing nut like Amit Shah becomes PM and tries to "teach Bangladeshis a lesson" to appease the head bobble crowd.

In the event of aggression by India, the entire Bangladesh Armed Forces especially BAF would need to go in beast mode and be ready to detect and neturalise any moving Indian military assets in neighbouring Indian states by utilising EW&C.

This is because we cannot afford to wait until India escalates further to full on artillery and air strikes on our tiny land mass. We will inevitably lose a lot of our assets due to Indian strikes so our best bet is to do as much damage to the Indian economy and military as possible.

If Bangladesh attains the military capabilities I have proposed in post #10,624, Indian state machinery would restrain their PM and avoid confrontation with BD at all costs as we would gurantee a retaliation strong enough to kill thousands of Indians and force the Indian economy into recession.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Amit Shah becomes PM


he is going to be the next PM


Destranator said:


> "teach Bangladeshis a lesson"


its going to be more like Balakot incident. if it ever happens. They are chickenhawks

Recently MyAF conducted airstrikes against civilians at night by violating Thai airspace.


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## Jobless Jack

Destranator said:


> No, this is assuming India would attack first which by default would be an existential threat. It is certainly possible that a right wing nut like Amit Shah becomes PM and tries to "teach Bangladeshis a lesson" to appease the head bobble crowd.
> 
> In the event of aggression by India, the entire Bangladesh Armed Forces especially BAF would need to go in beast mode and be ready to detect and neturalise any moving Indian military assets in neighbouring Indian states by utilising EW&C.
> 
> This is because we cannot afford to wait until India escalates further to full on artillery and air strikes on our tiny land mass. We will inevitably lose a lot of our assets due to Indian strikes so our best bet is to do as much damage to the Indian economy and military as possible.
> 
> If Bangladesh attains the military capabilities I have proposes in post #10,624, Indian state machinery would restrain their PM and avoid confrontation with BD at all costs as we would gurantee a retaliation strong enough to kill thousands of Indians and force the Indian economy into recession.


Well the capabilities BD is developing right now will definitely be able to send the Indian economy into deep recession by conducting insurgencies deep into indian territory if amit G deciedes to flex and teach bd a lesson. The way things are going, even a simple air strike by IA will send the entire country on edge, with people in BD demanding retaliation.!


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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> F-35 failed to meet the standards set by BAF 😆


The US and China should stop bickering and instead collaborate to integrate PL-15s into F-35s for BAF.
Syed Amra Khan can serve as liason to bully the US and China into submission.

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## X-ray Papa

Destranator said:


> Syed Amar Khan


Zaid Rahman*

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## Destranator

X-ray Papa said:


> Zaid Rahman*


*Ashikur Rahman

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> No, this is assuming India would attack first which by default would be an existential threat. It is certainly possible that a right wing nut like Amit Shah becomes PM and tries to "teach Bangladeshis a lesson" to appease the head bobble crowd.
> 
> In the event of aggression by India, the entire Bangladesh Armed Forces especially BAF would need to go in beast mode and be ready to detect and neturalise any moving Indian military assets in neighbouring Indian states by utilising EW&C.
> 
> This is because we cannot afford to wait until India escalates further to full on artillery and air strikes on our tiny land mass. We will inevitably lose a lot of our assets due to Indian strikes so our best bet is to do as much damage to the Indian economy and military as possible.
> 
> If Bangladesh attains the military capabilities I have proposed in post #10,624, Indian state machinery would restrain their PM and avoid confrontation with BD at all costs as we would gurantee a retaliation strong enough to kill thousands of Indians and force the Indian economy into recession.


India would refrain from military escalation while at the same time try to diplomatically pressure us into war against China. The world is moving to a 2 bloc system again Bangladesh will try to be neutral as long as possible but then eventually side with Chinese when threat increase is apparent

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## alphapak

BAF also needs AEWAC planes. They should go for the Saab Erieye or Globaleye.

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## F-6 enthusiast

alphapak said:


> BAF also needs AEWAC planes. They should go for the Saab Erieye or Globaleye.


i heard the RAF wants to sell some its AWACS (cannot find the source ). Maybe that's a possibility.


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i heard the RAF wants to sell some its AWACS (cannot find the source ). Maybe that's a possibility.


RAF stuff is huge no? With minimal budget Saab erieye and globaleye like @alphapsuggest is best

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> RAF stuff is huge no? With minimal budget Saab erieye and globaleye like @alphapsuggest is best


if we get the saab awacs, i hope the one with jet engines is selected as it has a higher ceiling and can see further.

And yeah RAF is basically having a garage sale with all kinds of items. A buyer should keep an eye on the C-130s (those things probably last forever after overhauls). Frigates too although i don't think it would be wise to get them.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if we get the saab awacs, i hope the one with jet engines is selected as it has a higher ceiling and can see further.
> 
> And yeah RAF is basically having a garage sale with all kinds of items. A buyer should keep an eye on the C-130s (those things probably last forever after overhauls). Frigates too although i don't think it would be wise to get them.


I wouldn’t get frigates simply because salt water boats are a hassle second hand. 
but c130s those will outlast us. Pakistan has some that are over 60-65 years old

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> I wouldn’t get frigates simply because salt water boats are a hassle second hand.
> but c130s those will outlast us. Pakistan has some that are over 60-65 years old


if the EFT deal goes through , what kind of weapons package can we expect ?
1. Egypt got SCALP/Storm shadow limited to 290km as part of Rafale deal





Photos: Egypt's army reveals SCALP stealth missiles - Egypt Independent
This will give us capability to strike s-400. Or we could get SOM from Turkey (not sure if it can be integrated)
2. MARTE ER as anti-ship (not as refined as EXOCET block 3 but capable nonetheless)
3. Meteor and IRIS-T for air-to-air
4. Brimstone (excellent against armour and moving targets , even the americans want it ) UNLIKELY





Also check out this cool typhoon helmet (second only to the F-35 in the western world)


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## Destranator

alphapak said:


> BAF also needs AEWAC planes. They should go for the Saab Erieye or Globaleye.


I ask the mofos to get Gripens for a reason. Both EFTs and Gripens can be integrated with Saab AEW&C.


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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

Bangladesh Air force, Armed forces and Navy needs to bolster it's inventory and there is no lack of money Hasina should be able to bring this money on the table and it doesn't matter if it even comes via extra taxing as long as the purchases happen.

I see Bangladesh has alot of Chinese tech and to be fairly honest not that impressive but instead Bangladesh needs more tanks and honestly not confident in chinese tanks or atleast pressure them to give you one of their most solid tanks and you need these in bulk or otherwise get the tanks from Pakistan the Al-khalid or Turkey.

Armored 4'4 vehichles from Turkey and you need alot of these preferable with laser equipped.

You need drones and hell'va alot of drones for this purchase you go to turkey.
you need missiles you go to Pakistan purchase their best missiles and long range once.

You need fighter jets. Get eurofighter first and then later Tfx-Azm. Get 2-3 squron of Eurofighters or even get Rafale plus get Chinese fighters on the side.

You also need additional Submarines and warships for these you go to Turkey exclusively.

You also need to buy extra air-defensive systems get S400, Hisar-o and Another one dosen't matter from where.

All these purchases should happen within the next 2-4 years and if this happens Bangladesh will overnight become the most robust armed forces in South East Asia


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if the EFT deal goes through , what kind of weapons package can we expect ?
> 1. Egypt got SCALP/Storm shadow limited to 290km as part of Rafale deal
> View attachment 738718
> 
> Photos: Egypt's army reveals SCALP stealth missiles - Egypt Independent
> This will give us capability to strike s-400. Or we could get SOM from Turkey (not sure if it can be integrated)
> 2. MARTE ER as anti-ship (not as refined as EXOCET block 3 but capable nonetheless)
> 3. Meteor and IRIS-T for air-to-air
> 4. Brimstone (excellent against armour and moving targets , even the americans want it ) UNLIKELY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also check out this cool typhoon helmet (second only to the F-35 in the western world)


Idk about weapons package tbh but if anything we would have the bare minimum for say 2 A2A Per aircraft and so on...
Just look at our existing inventory of mig missiles. Pathetic won’t even last 7 days

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Idk about weapons package tbh but if anything we would have the bare minimum for say 2 A2A Per aircraft and so on...
> Just look at our existing inventory of mig missiles. Pathetic won’t even last 7 days


I dont think BD will get EFT , not after the recent statements made after the visit by the Chinese defense minister.

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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> I dont think BD will get EFT , not after the recent statements made after the visit by the Chinese defense minister.


I would be glad if BAF prioritises procuring multiple squadrons single engine fighters over 1 sqd EFT.

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## xbat

Turkey is set to export its indigenous Hurkus-C trainer/light attack aircraft


Turkey is set to export its indigenous Hurkus-C trainer/light attack aircraft




www.blogbeforeflight.net

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## Jobless Jack

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> Bangladesh Air force, Armed forces and Navy needs to bolster it's inventory and there is no lack of money Hasina should be able to bring this money on the table and it doesn't matter if it even comes via extra taxing as long as the purchases happen.
> 
> I see Bangladesh has alot of Chinese tech and to be fairly honest not that impressive but instead Bangladesh needs more tanks and honestly not confident in chinese tanks or atleast pressure them to give you one of their most solid tanks and you need these in bulk or otherwise get the tanks from Pakistan the Al-khalid or Turkey.
> 
> Armored 4'4 vehichles from Turkey and you need alot of these preferable with laser equipped.
> 
> You need drones and hell'va alot of drones for this purchase you go to turkey.
> you need missiles you go to Pakistan purchase their best missiles and long range once.
> 
> You need fighter jets. Get eurofighter first and then later Tfx-Azm. Get 2-3 squron of Eurofighters or even get Rafale plus get Chinese fighters on the side.
> 
> You also need additional Submarines and warships for these you go to Turkey exclusively.
> 
> You also need to buy extra air-defensive systems get S400, Hisar-o and Another one dosen't matter from where.
> 
> All these purchases should happen within the next 2-4 years and if this happens Bangladesh will overnight become the most robust armed forces in South East Asia





Especially with Lira falling and turkey has excellent tech that is close or up to NATO Level. So BD can build up its missile and offensive drone fleet . Especially , SAM, cruise and ballistic missile. Purchasing these in bulk with TOT to produce them inhouse with varying ranges ( 100 - 1000 km) .

BN can do bulk orders and buildup the build up the BN fleet in 2-3 years, especially the submarine arm . NATO level tech available very cheaply. 

Just by making these move , will make BD armed forces one of the most feared force in the South Asian / south east region in 2-4 years. Very much achievable , only need political will.

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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> I dont think BD will get EFT , not after the recent statements made after the visit by the Chinese defense minister.


Bruh although there was evidence pointing to that direction I’ve changed my mind too. Bd isn’t getting anything until mid 20s 
Bunch of pathetic losers. They’ll fly whatever they have till retirement and then replace the birds and call it modernization

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Bruh although there was evidence pointing to that direction I’ve changed my mind too. Bd isn’t getting anything until mid 20s
> Bunch of pathetic losers. They’ll fly whatever they have till retirement and then replace the birds and call it modernization


Unless the Chinese push for modernization..

Reading into the recent comments of the Chinese defense minister. It seems the Chinese have taken an active interest in strengthening of the BD armed forces. Like how USA forces NATO members have to maintain a standard of their armed forces. If this is true , than BD will modernize the armed forces very rapidly and quickly in 4-5. years


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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> Unless the Chinese push for modernization..
> 
> Reading into the recent comments of the Chinese defense minister. It seems the Chinese have taken an active interest in strengthening of the BD armed forces. Like how USA forces NATO members have to maintain a standard of their armed forces. If this is true , than BD will modernize the armed forces very rapidly and quickly in 4-5. years


That would mean us finally choosing a side and sticking with it


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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Bruh although there was evidence pointing to that direction I’ve changed my mind too. Bd isn’t getting anything until mid 20s
> Bunch of pathetic losers. They’ll fly whatever they have till retirement and then replace the birds and call it modernization


Don't understand why armed forces have to be so tight-lipped when procuring anything. It's not like we are under embargoes or anything. 
If contract is signed for EFT in 2022 (BAF air show) it will take 3-4 years to get the delivery . So it could be 2025-27. It will also take time to train pilots and crew and get operational clearance. That's Forces goal 2030 i guess. 

Mfs wasted 6 years in supposedly trying to get MRCA. 3 years on Su-30 +Mig-35 and 3 years twiddling their thumbs. 
if BAF doesn't sign any contract within 2022 (air show) then there is truly no hope for it. We will be at the mercy of Burma which is a failed state. 
Seriously, we have an economy almost 5 times as big as Burma. BA and BN have the capabilities to beat them and have done so in the past (NAF war ) but BAF ? What's going to stop them from doing a Pearl Harbour on us ?
Be in no doubt that we have the capability to beat them but we have poor leadership. 
Then there are Shushil Shomaj who say '' Eigula kine ki kaje lagbe ?'' National Security comes first before anything else. 

An interesting pic to keep discussion on topic

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> That would mean us finally choosing a side and sticking with it







__





Yahoo Search - Web Search


The search engine that helps you find exactly what you\'re looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.




in.news.yahoo.com






To my understanding , alliance is like a club, where everyone has to meet a minimum standard to be in the Club and fulfill a functioning role. If one cannot do that they are kicked out of the club

BD armed forces compared to the PLA is a hilarious joke. So if the PLA is to consider BD an ally , that means they fully expect BD to carry out a functioning role. That clearly means BD must also be given the tools necessary to do carry out the functioning role.

I conclude rapid modernization of the BD military paramilitary and police. Coming months will tell

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Don't understand why armed forces have to be so tight-lipped when procuring anything. It's not like we are under embargoes or anything.
> If contract is signed for EFT in 2022 (BAF air show) it will take 3-4 years to get the delivery . So it could be 2025-27. It will also take time to train pilots and crew and get operational clearance. That's Forces goal 2030 i guess.
> 
> Mfs wasted 6 years in supposedly trying to get MRCA. 3 years on Su-30 +Mig-35 and 3 years twiddling their thumbs.
> if BAF doesn't sign any contract within 2022 (air show) then there is truly no hope for it. We will be at the mercy of Burma which is a failed state.
> Seriously, we have an economy almost 5 times as big as Burma. BA and BN have the capabilities to beat them and have done so in the past (NAF war ) but BAF ? What's going to stop them from doing a Pearl Harbour on us ?
> Be in no doubt that we have the capability to beat them but we have poor leadership.
> Then there are Shushil Shomaj who say '' Eigula kine ki kaje lagbe ?'' National Security comes first before anything else.
> 
> An interesting pic to keep discussion on topic
> View attachment 738889








Well things are not as bad as they look.

BAF has already modernised 4 of its 8 Mig-29s to BM standards and the other 4 will probably be done this year.

MAF's 30 or so Mig-29s all use the old export N-019EB radar, whereas the Mig-29BMs use the more modern N--019P radar and can fire the R-77 BVR missile and anti-ship missiles like KH-31A, which the BAF has already ordered. MAF Mig-29s are not really BVR capable as the radar on them cannot allow the R-27 SARH missile to be used effectively at BVR.

BAF also has 16 F-7BGI, which carry the 86km range KLJ-6A radar and they should ask China to carry out software modifications to allow that plane to fire the SD-10A BVRAAM.

8 Mig-29Bms with R-77/R-27 and 16 F-7BGIs with SD-10As certainly will not be a pushover for MAF.


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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> Well things are not as bad as they look.
> 
> BAF has already modernised 4 of its 8 Mig-29s to BM standards and the other 4 will probably be done this year.
> 
> MAF's 30 or so Mig-29s all use the old export N-019EB radar, whereas the Mig-29BMs use the more modern N--019P radar and can fire the R-77 BVR missile and anti-ship missiles like KH-31A, which the BAF has already ordered. MAF Mig-29s are not really BVR capable as the radar on them cannot allow the R-27 SARH missile to be used effectively at BVR.
> 
> BAF also has 16 F-7BGI, which carry the 86km range KLJ-6A radar and they should ask China to carry out software modifications to allow that plane to fire the SD-10A BVRAAM.
> 
> 8 Mig-29Bms with R-77/R-27 and 16 F-7BGIs with SD-10As certainly will not be a pushover for MAF.


They will be getting Su-30SM , if no platform is inducted we will be at a quantitative and qualitative disadvantage.
EFT can shift the balance in our favour. Flankers were useless in 27 Feb 
The process of replacing older F-7s needs to start as soon as the EFTs are inducted. This worrying as there wouldn't be enough fighters for controlling the air and by extension the naval airspace in a defensive role.


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Don't understand why armed forces have to be so tight-lipped when procuring anything. It's not like we are under embargoes or anything.
> If contract is signed for EFT in 2022 (BAF air show) it will take 3-4 years to get the delivery . So it could be 2025-27. It will also take time to train pilots and crew and get operational clearance. That's Forces goal 2030 i guess.
> 
> Mfs wasted 6 years in supposedly trying to get MRCA. 3 years on Su-30 +Mig-35 and 3 years twiddling their thumbs.
> if BAF doesn't sign any contract within 2022 (air show) then there is truly no hope for it. We will be at the mercy of Burma which is a failed state.
> Seriously, we have an economy almost 5 times as big as Burma. BA and BN have the capabilities to beat them and have done so in the past (NAF war ) but BAF ? What's going to stop them from doing a Pearl Harbour on us ?
> Be in no doubt that we have the capability to beat them but we have poor leadership.
> Then there are Shushil Shomaj who say '' Eigula kine ki kaje lagbe ?'' National Security comes first before anything else.
> 
> An interesting pic to keep discussion on topic
> View attachment 738889


Bengalis won’t learn until there is a Pearl Harbor on us. Just see what happened with Pakistanis we didn’t fight until the camels back was broken
@DalalErMaNodi and me were discussing this long back we agreed we need Burma to do a Pearl Harbor on us. Only then will be take military seriously

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> They will be getting Su-30SM , if no platform is inducted we will be at a quantitative and qualitative disadvantage.
> EFT can shift the balance in our favour. Flankers were useless in 27 Feb
> The process of replacing older F-7s needs to start as soon as the EFTs are inducted. This worrying as there wouldn't be enough fighters for controlling the air and by extension the naval airspace in a defensive role.




I don't think you can say that Flankers were "useless" on 27th Feb 2019 as PAF did not shoot them down in droves and remember that the main reason that PAF won was that the AIM-120C7 on the F-16 had superior range to the R-77 that India had on their SU-30MKI.

BAF can and should buy the extended range R-77 to fully utilise the long-range BVR capabilities of the Mig-29BM N-109P radar and also ask China for software modifications on the F-7BGI to allow the SD-10A BVR missile to be guided by the KLJ-6A radar.


Yes MAF would still be somewhat superior but just doing the above will make MAF have to fight hard for 2-3 weeks to defeat BAF comprehensively.

Like you say EFT or any other Western fighter for that matter will not now come till 2025 at the very earliest and so best to upgrade what is on hand to quickly and cheaply provide a real boost to the defensive capabilities of BAF, while a new 4+ gen Western fighter is inducted in the middle part of this decade.

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Bengalis won’t learn until there is a Pearl Harbor on us. Just see what happened with Pakistanis we didn’t fight until the camels back was broken
> @DalalErMaNodi and me were discussing this long back we agreed we need Burma to do a Pearl Harbor on us. Only then will be take military seriously


More chance of the IAF doing a pearl harbour. 

The Burmese , given an option will choose the Chinese over the Indian's any day. Modi G is not doing an excellent job of convincing the Burmese otherwise.


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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> I don't think you can say that Flankers were "useless" on 27th Feb 2019 as PAF did not shoot them down in droves and remember that the main reason that PAF won was that the AIM-120C7 on the F-16 had superior range to the R-77 that India had on their SU-30MKI.


Meteors will outrange R-77. but ueah R-77s could be purchased as stop gap 
The availability rates of Flankers are abysmal. One IAF document claimed it was at best 53% (bear in mind india has all facilities to assemble , maintain and overhaul flankers)
too many mechanical parts causing wear and tear.


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## leonblack08

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Meteors will outrange R-77. but ueah R-77s could be purchased as stop gap
> The availability rates of Flankers are abysmal. One IAF document claimed it was at best 53% (bear in mind india has all facilities to assemble , maintain and overhaul flankers)
> too many mechanical parts causing wear and tear.



Any idea on the availability rate for Typhoons? Better or worse than Sukhois?


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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Meteors will outrange R-77. but ueah R-77s could be purchased as stop gap
> The availability rates of Flankers are abysmal. One IAF document claimed it was at best 53% (bear in mind india has all facilities to assemble , maintain and overhaul flankers)
> too many mechanical parts causing wear and tear.




Same can be said for all Russian aircraft and this applies to the Mig-29 as well.


In terms of availability rates Western > Chinese > Russian.

JF-17 which is Chinese with a Russian engine has better availability rates than India's SU-30s and Mig-29s.

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## F-6 enthusiast

leonblack08 said:


> Any idea on the availability rate for Typhoons? Better or worse than Sukhois?


this video which with extensive research and comparison with Su-35 (it is not biased and takes into consideration the publicly available data ,) it is long so watch it if you have time 





any western design is inherently more reliable than a russian design due to design philisophy 
i saw a diagram where the rd-33 engines in fulcrums need to be overhauled more number of times compared to GE engines of F-16 (in the Turkish forum i will try to find it )
this is an excerpt of an article on malaysia's Mig-29 fleet 
Full Frame: Malaysia's MiG-29N : Fulcrum Most Tenacious (daisetsuzan.blogspot.com)

*Cheap To Own, Expensive To Use*

Part of the reason why the MiGs were expensive and difficult to maintain was that Russian equipment were generally not made to match the high standards of their western counterparts. They are generally simple to operate and rugged to allow for operations under austere conditions but are certainly not made to last. They are relatively cheap to produce in large quantities so if any were to break down, they can be easily replaced rather than repaired. According to Mark Bobbi of IHS, during the Cold War, the Soviet Union's massive defense spending resulted in and allowed for hugely wasteful procurement practices where by aircraft manufacturers such as Mikoyan Gurevich and Sukhoi would design so called " throwaway aircrafts ", expected to operate for ten years or so with little or no maintenance before they were scrapped and replaced with all new aircrafts. So if you are trying to get some Russian or legacy Soviet equipment repaired, be ready to face some real hurdles.

The quality of service and support from Russia is also simply not at the same level as those from Western companies like Boeing or Dassault. Apart from the language barrier, the work culture is entirely different. Business ethics may be non-existent, as the Russian supply chain is notoriously known to be the most inefficient and corrupt.

To make matters worse, the Malaysians themselves imposed restrictions as to who could supply parts and carry out maintenance works on their aircrafts. It seemed that only companies majority owned by indigenous people could qualify and they of course seized the opportunity to inflate prices, since there was little transparency and almost no competition. In the end, each Fulcrum would cost $5 million to service annually, and that's in US Dollars, not the Malaysian Riggit which in recent times had fallen to historical lows. 



UKBengali said:


> JF-17 which is Chinese with a Russian engine has better availability rates than India's SU-30s and Mig-29s.


it's also single engined , so i guess that helps a lot

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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> More chance of the IAF doing a pearl harbour.
> 
> The Burmese , given an option will choose the Chinese over the Indian's any day. Modi G is not doing an excellent job of convincing the Burmese otherwise.


Burmese will sell out to anyone that’s why China doesn’t care about them much. 
IAF doing something like that won’t bode well for India since the benefits will be gone overnight


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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> @DalalErMaNodi and me were discussing this long back we agreed we need Burma to do a Pearl Harbor on us. Only then will be take military seriously


BAF can do a flase flag operation on Chittagong Harbour. 

I saw somewhere that one squadron of rafale's will be deployed at ambala (no 17 golden arrows) near Pakistan
and another is planned to be deployed (101 falcons) in west bengal

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Meteors will outrange R-77. but ueah R-77s could be purchased as stop gap
> The availability rates of Flankers are abysmal. One IAF document claimed it was at best 53% (bear in mind india has all facilities to assemble , maintain and overhaul flankers)
> too many mechanical parts causing wear and tear.


IAF availability rates shouldn’t be all blamed on sukhoi but partly on their airmen too


F-6 enthusiast said:


> BAF can do a flase flag operation on Chittagong Harbour.
> 
> I saw somewhere that one squadron of rafale's will be deployed at ambala (no 17 golden arrows) near Pakistan
> and another is planned to be deployed (101 falcons) in west bengal


Yep yep 😆 if only they didn’t waste their oil budget flying on bongopapa’s birthday

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## alphapak

F-6 enthusiast
[QUOTE="leonblack08 said:


> Any idea on the availability rate for Typhoons? Better or worse than Sukhois?



The availabilty rate of Eurofighters in RAF is about 60%. Check this article out:








Having Trouble Keeping It Up? The RAF and Typhoon availability...


A blog about UK defence issues which tries to put a positive and fresh look at many current matters impacting UK and wider defence.




thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com

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## leonblack08

alphapak said:


> The availabilty rate of Eurofighters in RAF is about 60%. Check this article out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having Trouble Keeping It Up? The RAF and Typhoon availability...
> 
> 
> A blog about UK defence issues which tries to put a positive and fresh look at many current matters impacting UK and wider defence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com



Thanks for this Brother.

That means at any given point of time we will roughly have 10 out of 16 EFTs available. Assuming BAF is actually buying the EFTs. That is certainly not enough in number in case of conflict.

I hope BAF really supplements the EFTs with J 10 in good numbers. But who am I kidding..it's BAF it will take them another decade or two to replace the F7s.


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## alphapak

leonblack08 said:


> Thanks for this Brother.
> 
> That means at any given point of time we will roughly have 10 out of 16 EFTs available. Assuming BAF is actually buying the EFTs. That is certainly not enough in number in case of conflict.
> 
> I hope BAF really supplements the EFTs with J 10 in good numbers. But who am I kidding..it's BAF it will take them another decade or two to replace the F7s.



Its 60% for RAF but it will be less for BAF.

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## F-6 enthusiast

alphapak said:


> Its 60% for RAF but it will be less for BAF.


we will have a 1/10 th of their Typhoon fleet size. a miniscule budget compared to them but it can be allocated to maintain and repair small number of EFT.
i understand that those EFT might be tranche 1 which require extensive maintenance
maybe 56% , whatever that may be it will be higher than that of flankers or fulcrums.

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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

Jobless Jack said:


> BN can do bulk orders and buildup the build up the BN fleet in 2-3 years, especially the submarine arm . NATO level tech available very cheaply.
> 
> Just by making these move , will make BD armed forces one of the most feared force in the South Asian / south east region in 2-4 years. Very much achievable , only need political will.



We think alike me and you. The path is completely clear Turkey foreign minister Mevlut said that we will sell to Bangladesh high tech caliber systems without any pre-attached conditions

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> we will have a 1/10 th of their Typhoon fleet size. a miniscule budget compared to them but it can be allocated to maintain and repair small number of EFT.
> i understand that those EFT might be tranche 1 which require extensive maintenance
> maybe 56% , whatever that may be it will be higher than that of flankers or fulcrums.



Even BAF is not stupid enough to buy tranche 1 EFT.... where did you get your information from.... the 56% sounds awfully like malaysian statement regarding russian jets...

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> Even BAF is not stupid enough to buy tranche 1 EFT.... where did you get your information from.... the 56% sounds awfully like malaysian statement regarding russian jets...


Tranche 1 are not in production anymore. So that's not happening 
I did not get that figure from anywhere , just a conservative estimate. But if we get Tranche 2 or Tranche 3 , they will have better reliability and servicing characteristics than T1


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## Jobless Jack

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> We think alike me and you. The path is completely clear Turkey foreign minister Mevlut said that we will sell to Bangladesh high tech caliber systems without any pre-attached conditions


Yes. Espacially with the Chinese defense minister stating that china sees BD as part of a military alliance. 

I read rapid upgrade of BD military capabilities soon if BD is going to be a functional part of the alliance. 

The Chinese are very efficient people. Expect changes in the coming months.

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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

Jobless Jack said:


> Yes. Espacially with the Chinese defense minister stating that china sees BD as part of a military alliance.
> 
> I read rapid upgrade of BD military capabilities soon if BD is going to be a functional part of the alliance.
> 
> The Chinese are very efficient people. Expect changes in the coming months.



I believe the Chinese have geninue interest in BD and seing a stronger BD benefits them alot it solves for them alot of headaches in the long term. BD should demand the best tech China has to offer because mostly they sell junk and keep the good once themselves but BD should make it clear that it needs some serious tech and weaponry transfer while on the otherside doing some heavy shopping in Turkey in all the big stuff. China has good jamming tech and can paralyze the grid BD needs some of that. You need both systems the best Turkey has to offer without upsetting your partner in China buying also alot from them making a balancing act on the shopping list and I do believe China wants to transfer high quality tech weaponry to BD because they want BD to function as a shield for them and basically for them it is like investing in the great wall and this plays into BD's own desires of gaining muscles so things naturally align for BD

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## Jobless Jack

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> I believe the Chinese have geninue interest in BD and seing a stronger BD benefits them alot it solves for them alot of headaches in the long term. BD should demand the best tech China has to offer because mostly they sell junk and keep the good once themselves but BD should make it clear that it needs some serious tech and weaponry transfer while on the otherside doing some heavy shopping in Turkey in all the big stuff. *China has good jamming tech and can paralyze the grid BD needs some of that*. You need both systems the best Turkey has to offer without upsetting your partner in China buying also alot from them making a balancing act on the shopping list and I do believe China wants to transfer high quality tech weaponry to BD because they want BD to function as a shield for them and basically for them it is like investing in the great wall and this plays into BD's own desires of gaining muscles so things naturally align for BD



To do the bolded part , Bd needs cyber command.

The Chinese will only give the good stuff to BD when BD commits to the Chinese side.

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## F-6 enthusiast

*Italy, Egypt To Sign Mega Arms Deal Includes 24 Eurofighters, 24 M346 Trainers and 6 Frigates*


if this deal goes through (likely) , EFT procurement for BAF* might *take a bit longer than expected. They are not going to open a new production line for 16 jets.

This should not be taken as negative , rather BAF's incompetence should be highlighted. i thought it would take 2025-2027 to get EFT *if ordered *, and a few years to set up facilities, training , weapons packages etc which would take 2030.
But this has the possibility of shifting the time for EFT to be fully integrated to 2032-2033.
please bear in mind that this is *my speculation. *
Would like to know your thoughts

Sincerely , All the best to Egypt for acquiring this beast of a jet @Gomig-21 , Parla Italiano ?

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## Jobless Jack

F-6 enthusiast said:


> *Italy, Egypt To Sign Mega Arms Deal Includes 24 Eurofighters, 24 M346 Trainers and 6 Frigates*
> 
> 
> if this deal goes through (likely) , EFT procurement for BAF* might *take a bit longer than expected. They are not going to open a new production line for 16 jets.
> 
> This should not be taken as negative , rather BAF's incompetence should be highlighted. i thought it would take 2025-2027 to get EFT *if ordered *, and a few years to set up facilities, training , weapons packages etc which would take 2030.
> But this has the possibility of shifting the time for EFT to be fully integrated to 2032-2033.
> please bear in mind that this is *my speculation. *
> Would like to know your thoughts


Buy the time BAF buy EFT and integrate it to the BAF combat system, it will have the same combat value that mig 21 enjoy today . BAF will do much better to get TOT for J10 and produce it inhouse and invest in the Turkish fighter development programme. 

However the news you have posted could also mean BAF not want EFT? Maybe the CHinese defense minister pushed BD to consider Chinese jets..

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## F-6 enthusiast

Jobless Jack said:


> Buy the time BAF buy EFT and integrate it to the BAF combat system, it will have the same combat value that mig 21 enjoy today . BAF will do much better to get TOT for J10 and produce it inhouse and invest in the Turkish fighter development programme.
> 
> However the news you have posted could also mean BAF not want EFT? Maybe the CHinese defense minister pushed BD to consider Chinese jets..


if germany will operate typhoon till 2060 its good enough for us. 
J-10c can be considered for f-7 replacement


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## Jobless Jack

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if germany will operate typhoon till 2060 its good enough for us.
> J-10c can be considered for f-7 replacement


Not taking Dig at EFT.

Just saying that BAF just spend a decade doing* nothing*

How can you be sure that BAF will integrate the Plane in 2030-2040 ? 

*very incompetent *


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Even BAF is not stupid enough to buy tranche 1 EFT.... where did you get your information from.... the 56% sounds awfully like malaysian statement regarding russian jets...


Ye they didn’t manage a 50% rate 😂


Jobless Jack said:


> Buy the time BAF buy EFT and integrate it to the BAF combat system, it will have the same combat value that mig 21 enjoy today . BAF will do much better to get TOT for J10 and produce it inhouse and invest in the Turkish fighter development programme.
> 
> However the news you have posted could also mean BAF not want EFT? Maybe the CHinese defense minister pushed BD to consider Chinese jets..


Turkish or the KFX program. Cant go wrong with either


F-6 enthusiast said:


> if germany will operate typhoon till 2060 its good enough for us.
> J-10c can be considered for f-7 replacement


Also keep in mind Germany has most of its things out of action or outdated due to budgetary restrictions

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Also keep in mind Germany has most of its things out of action or outdated due to budgetary restrictions


bruh they just ordered 38 new EFT and most of their EFT is of T1 variants which are from early 2000s so they are 20+ year old airframes.
your point about them being underfunded is fair.
we will probably get 16 and try to keep as many airworthy for as long a period of time as possible.
It will send a message to bandors give them a psychological shock.
Imagine storm shadow missiles hitting their ports and crippling their economy.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Saudis are setting up maintenance facilities for their aircrafts so this is a chance to get the MRO facilities.


Michael Corleone said:


> Turkish or the KFX program. Cant go wrong with either


we seem to be buying lots of Turkish equipment recently, I hope this is the start of a new Defence relationship. cannot completely rely on chinese since they only care about money and will sell weapons to both sides. (In the sudanese civil war, china sold type-85 tank to Sudan and hj-8 ATGM to south sudan lol).

Turkey theke equipmen kine oderke buro angul dekhaiya dise

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## DalalErMaNodi

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Saudis are setting up maintenance facilities for their aircrafts so this is a chance to get the MRO facilities.
> 
> we seem to be buying lots of Turkish equipment recently, I hope this is the start of a new Defence relationship. cannot completely rely on chinese since they care about money and will sell weapons to both sides. (In the sudanese civil war, china sold type-85 tank to Sudan and hj-8 ATGM to south sudan lol).
> 
> Turkey theke equipmen kine oderke buro angul dekhaiya dise





We need Turkey to teach us how to make needles.

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## F-6 enthusiast

DalalErMaNodi said:


> We need Turkey to teach us how to make needles.


yo what is it with all BD posters in this forum having an obsession with needles ? just curious 
bhai needles to amra ghore boshei banate pari ? adi juger manush kibhabe shelai korse tahole ?

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> bruh they just ordered 38 new EFT and most of their EFT is of T1 variants which are from early 2000s so they are 20+ year old airframes.
> your point about them being underfunded is fair.
> we will probably get 16 and try to keep as many airworthy for as long a period of time as possible.
> It will send a message to bandors give them a psychological shock.
> Imagine storm shadow missiles hitting their ports and crippling their economy.


Bruh you mean the same psychological shock mig 29s been giving for past 20 years?
our airforce is pathetic it will get something it can’t afford to lose and keep them as showpieces, if they don’t managed to crash a couple


F-6 enthusiast said:


> we seem to be buying lots of Turkish equipment recently, I hope this is the start of a new Defence relationship. cannot completely rely on chinese since they only care about money and will sell weapons to both sides. (In the sudanese civil war, china sold type-85 tank to Sudan and hj-8 ATGM to south sudan lol).
> 
> Turkey theke equipmen kine oderke buro angul dekhaiya dise


China has taken America’s word to heart and does capitalism very well now 😂


F-6 enthusiast said:


> Saudis are setting up maintenance facilities for their aircrafts so this is a chance to get the MRO facilities


Civilian bruh, nothing military


DalalErMaNodi said:


> We need Turkey to teach us how to make needles.


Developed country by 2060 1 needle at a time




hows this needle btw. I designed it myself

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Bruh you mean the same psychological shock mig 29s been giving for past 20 years?


Mig-29 were not ''Ottadhunik'' at the time of their induction to BAF. *Imagine *if BD bought F-16/18 at that time, that's what a Typhoon is now. 
(although typhoon is comparable to F-15 than to F-16)



Michael Corleone said:


> our airforce is pathetic it will get something it can’t afford to lose and keep them as showpieces


i guess that has some kind of deterrence value. 

a different way to armtwist Burma is to support rebels like KNLA , AA etc . It will have the double effect of destabilising Burma and by extension, India (they are already having refugee crisis) .


Michael Corleone said:


> China has taken America’s word to heart and does capitalism very well now


kind of ironic how the sino-soviet split happened because Mao thought Kruschev betrayed socialism and was a ''*revisionist''*
now they have become revisionists.

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## DalalErMaNodi

F-6 enthusiast said:


> yo what is it with all BD posters in this forum having an obsession with needles ? just curious
> bhai needles to amra ghore boshei banate pari ? adi juger manush kibhabe shelai korse tahole ?
> View attachment 739541




Why do you think we fought for our Independence? The malicious West Pakistanis weren't letting us manufacture needles and thereby develop.


Michael Corleone said:


> hows this needle btw. I designed it myself




Amazing, Diarrhoea be gone.

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## The Ronin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1388857637782052870

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Saudis are setting up maintenance facilities for their aircrafts so this is a chance to get the MRO facilities.
> 
> we seem to be buying lots of Turkish equipment recently, I hope this is the start of a new Defence relationship. cannot completely rely on chinese since they only care about money and will sell weapons to both sides. (In the sudanese civil war, china sold type-85 tank to Sudan and hj-8 ATGM to south sudan lol).
> 
> Turkey theke equipmen kine oderke buro angul dekhaiya dise




In case of India, we can 100% rely on China.

They are even better than Turkey as they can and would supply BD in case of war with India. Turkey will try but may be blocked from supplying BD by Indian forces.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> In case of India, we can 100% rely on China.
> 
> They are even better than Turkey as they can and would supply BD in case of war with India. Turkey will try but may be blocked from supplying BD by Indian forces.




BD really does stand alone. We can not expect chinese to get involved in any India BD conflict and jeopardise massive economic relations they have between each other.

Rohingya debacle should be enough to understand chinese position. You must dispose yourself of these fantasies of chinese help. None will be there.

Turkey, perhaps but not enough to change anything.


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> BD really does stand alone. We can not expect chinese to get involved in any India BD conflict and jeopardise massive economic relations they have between each other.
> 
> Rohingya debacle should be enough to understand chinese position. You must dispose yourself of these fantasies of chinese help. None will be there.
> 
> Turkey, perhaps but not enough to change anything.






What can India do to the 5x larger Chinese economy if they were to supply BD in time of conflict with BD?

Stop importing critical stuff they cannot get anywhere else?

If India could do without China it would have done so already. Modi hates China with a passion.

Remember India counts for just 3% of Chinese exports and so hardly significant. India would hurt itself far more than it would hurt China.

India needs China not the other way round.

You also did not take into account that China sees India as an enemy and so will be more than happy to help BD as by making BD stronger it makes them more secure.

How do you expect BD to source the critical weapons that it needs? Wave a magic wand and make these sophisticated weapons itself?

BD needs to have secure sources as much as is possible until it can make its own weapons, which could be at least 50 years away from where BD is now.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> What can India do to the 5x larger Chinese economy if they were to supply BD in time of conflict with BD?
> 
> Stop importing critical stuff they cannot get anywhere else?
> 
> If India could do without China it would have done so already. Modi hates China with a passion.
> 
> Remember India counts for just 3% of Chinese exports and so hardly significant. India would hurt itself far more than it would hurt China.
> 
> India needs China not the other way round.
> 
> You also did not take into account that China sees India as an enemy and so will be more than happy to help BD as by making BD stronger it makes them more secure.
> 
> How do you expect BD to source the critical weapons that it needs? Wave a magic wand and make these sophisticated weapons itself?
> 
> BD needs to have secure sources as much as is possible until it can make its own weapons, which could be at least 50 years away from where BD is now.




None of that would mean that china would assist us. There is absolutely zero chance they would. No country fights for someone else or assists unless there is something in it for themselves.

BD india conflict should it arise would mean failure of diplomacy and that all peripheral participants persuasion/threats have failed.

BD obtaining critical tech is different to tbe issue I was commenting on. I am saying there is zero chance of china supplying us with weapons during a hot conflict. BD is completely on its own.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> None of that would mean that china would assist us. There is absolutely zero chance they would. No country fights for someone else or assists unless there is something in it for themselves.




Like I say supplyig BD in times of war makes one of China's No. 1 enemies weaker.

China for geopolitical reasons will supply BD in times of war.

Why do you think China supports Pakistan? It is India primarily, as apart from link to Arabian Sea, which is only just now becoming a factor, Pakistan has nothing much else to offer China.

You obviously do not agree so that is ok as we all have our perspectives.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Like I say supplyig BD in times of war makes one of China's No. 1 enemies weaker.
> 
> China for geopolitical reasons will supply BD in times of war.
> 
> Why do you think China supports Pakistan? It is India primarily, as apart from link to Arabian Sea, which is only just now becoming a factor, Pakistan has nothing much else to offer China.
> 
> You obviously do not agree so that is ok as we all have our perspectives.




Where was china in 1971 or during kargil. Their direct support would have changed many things for pakistan but stayed out of it.

If the rohingya situation does not open your eyes to reality nothing will. China will not get involved on behalf of Bangladesh nor will it lsupply Bangladesh with anything.

As i have said india china trade is worth a lot more than china BD trade. You assuming that for china 3% of its trade it would sacrifice for BD is completely ridiculous. How much is chinas trade with burma worth? BD was dropped like hot potato. 

You overestimate BD importance to China and China basic capacity itself. BD and China are not in any kind of formal alliance and nor will it be in the foreseeable future. There is convergence in interest in pushing back against indian hedgemony but fighing for or on behalf of each other is totally ridiculous.

We will have to agree to disagree. I see both india and china in the same light. They both have interest in BD and their interest are not ours. Infact there are areas such as burma where india and chinas interest intersects and exists in direct opposition to BDs. I only care about BD and only BD, our position must always be fluid and must pivot as necessary to BDs interest.

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## Bilal9

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Amazing, Diarrhoea be gone.



Like they say in Bangladesh "Purai dijital" (Can't pronounce digital).

But Roja Romzaner din - we shouldn't be showing/mentioning these things.

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## Anubis

UKBengali said:


> In case of India, we can 100% rely on China.


..is what Yahya Khan said before going to bed every night.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Anubis said:


> ..is what Yahya Khan said before going to bed every night.


it was rumoured that Ayub khan had an agreement with the PRC in 1965 regarding this issue. What stopped PRC from intervening in 1971 is the fact that Soviets massed their forces near the Sino-soviet border. 

In this day and age of free-market capitalism where economies are linked with each other , wars like those of 65 and 71 cannot be waged.
After the indian parliament incident , indian armoured divisions positioned themselves near the Pakistani border. The US embassy instructed all of its citizens to leave India and the europeans followed suit. This caused a crisis in the indian economy overnight (investors got spooked) and forced them to the negotiating table.

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> it was rumoured that Ayub khan had an agreement with the PRC in 1965 regarding this issue. What stopped PRC from intervening in 1971 is the fact that Soviets massed their forces near the Sino-soviet border.
> 
> In this day and age of free-market capitalism where economies are linked with each other , wars like those of 65 and 71 cannot be waged.
> After the indian parliament incident , indian armoured divisions positioned themselves near the Pakistani border. The US embassy instructed all of its citizens to leave India and the europeans followed suit. This caused a crisis in the indian economy overnight (investors got spooked) and forced them to the negotiating table.




I don't think that was the only reason.

The Indians cleverly attacked during the winter in December and so the Himalayas were snowbound, making any Chinese attack to relieve pressure on the Pakistanis very difficult. Anyway China was secretly sympathetic to BD, even if in public it supported Pakistan.


@Anubis 


I am not suggesting that China would militarily intervene on the side of BD in case of war with India.

It is about keeping the military supply channels going, mainly with munitions like missiles and bombs that can run out very qucikly with war. Although we cannot be 100% confident that China will risk its own military in transporting the supplies to BD, if BD can collect them from China with its own transport planes/ships and safely bring them back to BD, then they will be available to BD.

To think that China cares about any short-term stoppage of 3% of its exports by India does not hold true in geopolitics. China cares far more about weakening India than it does about any short-term loss of a small percentage of its exports. The strategic gain in weaking India is far more than any loss of revenue from lesser exports to India.
India needs China more than the other way round.

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## Anubis

UKBengali said:


> I don't think that was the only reason.
> 
> The Indians cleverly attacked during the winter in December and so the Himalayas were snowbound, making any Chinese attack to relieve pressure on the Pakistanis very difficult. Anyway China was secretly sympathetic to BD, even if in public it supported Pakistan.
> 
> 
> @Anubis
> 
> 
> I am not suggesting that China would militarily intervene on the side of BD in case of war with India.
> 
> It is about keeping the military supply channels going, mainly with munitions like missiles and bombs that can run out very qucikly with war. Although we cannot be 100% confident that China will risk its own military in transporting the supplies to BD, if BD can collect them from China with its own transport planes/ships and safely bring them back to BD, then they will be available to BD.
> 
> To think that China cares about any short-term stoppage of 3% of its exports by India does not hold true in geopolitics. China cares far more about weakening India than it does about any short-term loss of a small percentage of its exports. The strategic gain in weaking India is far more than any loss of revenue from lesser exports to India.
> India needs China more than the other way round.



While I agree that China would not stop supplying BD due to any Indian 'pressure' bringing the supplies to BD might prove impossible. India would definitely impose a naval blockade which we will not be able to breach on our own and any airway to BD would cross Indian airspace which would make both shipping and air supplies impossible..(remember Pakistan still had weapons and supplies in 71 but they couldn't get them to East Pakistan)..then again it is true for pretty much any supplier in the world that BD can possibly buy from. The only solution that will work by my understanding is to be able to make munitions, bombs, and ordinances in-house. Given the size of the Indian military and non-aliance stance of Bangladesh India won't really have to worry about engaging their military in any other fronts in any significant scale. Which means we will have to face a substantial amount of Indian military firepower and our only way out might not be to win but rather to make it costly enough for India not to try it.

At the end of the day, I don't see any reason for BD and India to go to war unless it already involves some other nation and the only benefit India will have by capturing BD would be to gain quick access to the North East. And for India to risk a war with Bangladesh to gain access to NE would probably mean that there are Chinese boots on the ground there...that would change the scenario completely.


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## UKBengali

Anubis said:


> While I agree that China would not stop supplying BD due to any Indian 'pressure' bringing the supplies to BD might prove impossible. India would definitely impose a naval blockade which we will not be able to breach on our own and any airway to BD would cross Indian airspace which would make both shipping and air supplies impossible..(remember Pakistan still had weapons and supplies in 71 but they couldn't get them to East Pakistan)..then again it is true for pretty much any supplier in the world that BD can possibly buy from. The only solution that will work by my understanding is to be able to make munitions, bombs, and ordinances in-house. Given the size of the Indian military and non-aliance stance of Bangladesh India won't really have to worry about engaging their military in any other fronts in any significant scale. Which means we will have to face a substantial amount of Indian military firepower and our only way out might not be to win but rather to make it costly enough for India not to try it.
> 
> At the end of the day, I don't see any reason for BD and India to go to war unless it already involves some other nation and the only benefit India will have by capturing BD would be to gain quick access to the North East. And for India to risk a war with Bangladesh to gain access to NE would probably mean that there are Chinese boots on the ground there...that would change the scenario completely.





Yes that is why BD needs a strong Navy and Airforce to protect the supplies coming in during war-time.


Most realistic proposal is that Myanmar allows an "air-corridor" but that could be difficult as they may not want to upset the Indians. If China was to apply real pressure, which is not certain, then they would allow it.

Submarine is another realistic possibility as they would have the best chance to evade Indian Navy.

I think that producing hi-tech(laser-guided/GPS) bombs in BD is realistic in the next 10-20 years but not high-tech missiles like WVR and BVR missiles with their sophisticated seekers and propulsion systems.

BD best bet in this case would be to have a large stockpile in place as bombs and missiles can last a decade or more in stock these days. Yes it will be expensive but better safe than sorry.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Air power - How to rule the sky 1914-2019 
air power is the most essential part of warfare. Area denial weapons like SAMs cannot be substitute for effective air power, land and sea assets are useless without it. 
i ask everyone to watch this informative video to the end.

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Air power - How to rule the sky 1914-2019
> air power is the most essential part of warfare. Area denial weapons like SAMs cannot be substitute for effective air power, land and sea assets are useless without it.
> i ask everyone to watch this informative video to the end.




BAF management morons needs to watch it.... they arw clueless.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> BAF management morons needs to watch it.... they arw clueless.




Finally I got unbanned after 30 days  , but yeah I agree BAF needs to see that





By the way what do you guys think about what this guy is saying ?

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## The Ronin

26th April in Belarus.

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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> 26th April in Belarus.
> 
> View attachment 741912
> 
> 
> View attachment 741913
> 
> 
> View attachment 741914




Cool , I was wondering if we can make our F-7s capable of using cruise missiles ?

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Cool , I was wondering if we can make our F-7s capable of using cruise missiles ?


Getting F-7BGs and BGIs to fire BVR missiles by upgrading radars would be an achievement.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Getting F-7BGs and BGIs to fire BVR missiles by upgrading radars would be an achievement.



These F-7s are quite useless I guess , it's almost like BAF doesn't exist


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## Philip the Arab

SpaceMan18 said:


> Cool , I was wondering if we can make our F-7s capable of using cruise missiles ?


Of course you could but they would likely be very light ones with smaller warheads, and lower ranges.

For reference

Israeli Delilah cruise missiles weighs 187 kg and has 250km range with a 30kg warhead.






UAE Nasef cruise missile weighs 100kg and has a 120km with a 50kg warhead.

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1249591552125382


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## F-6 enthusiast

Eurofighter Typhoon Walkaround and History






this is prototype named DA1
EDIT: it looks like this an early prototype meant to test various systems , flight characteristics. this is not the production variant


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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Eurofighter Typhoon Walkaround and History
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is prototype named DA1
> EDIT: it looks like this an early prototype meant to test various systems , flight characteristics. this is not the production variant



Man I have been noticing that all these nation have been buying or already operate 4++ gen fighters but Bangladesh apparently doesn't 

We aren't Argentina who can't buy certain fighters due to the British blocking the purchase or Iran under sanctions. 

BAF is truly pathetic when you start looking at other nations Air Forces

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> Man I have been noticing that all these nation have been buying or already operate 4++ gen fighters but Bangladesh apparently doesn't
> 
> We aren't Argentina who can't buy certain fighters due to the British blocking the purchase or Iran under sanctions.
> 
> BAF is truly pathetic when you start looking at other nations Air Forces


its not even an issue about funds , it is the lack of willingness to do anything. I hope a contract is signed this year or next year for EFT. Also hope BAF starts process of replacing F-7s with J-10CE , F-16, gripen etc

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> its not even an issue about funds , it is the lack of willingness to do anything. I hope a contract is signed this year or next year for EFT. Also hope BAF starts process of replacing F-7s with J-10CE , F-16, gripen etc




BAF inaction is a result of lack of purpose, it does not have any clear doctrine or roadmap that it can follow. Its a rudderless organisation.

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## F-6 enthusiast

hopefully we will find out in the budget session in parliament if the money is allocated (very likely) for MRCA

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> hopefully we will find out in the budget session in parliament if the money is allocated (very likely) for MRCA



Hopefully no corruption will happen for ex like the Mig-29 deals , and it better be the EFT and not some baguette Rafale

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hopefully no corruption will happen for ex like the Mig-29 deals , and it better be the EFT and not some baguette Rafale


nah dont think there was as much corruption with MiG-29 deal as it was claimed. We got those birds at a discount ($12 million/aircraft ) , mainly because the original plan was to get more than 16. 
the successive goverment cancelled the deal for the remaining 8 migs ( for which we had paid some amount of money ) for political reasons. The 8 migs were later sold to belarus. This was done out of personal spite similar to how the BNS Banghabandhu , which was the most advanced frigate in South Asia (at that time) was retired and turned into a museum ship. They wanted to sell the 8 Migs that we currently have now to make some money.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> nah dont think there was as much corruption with MiG-29 deal as it was claimed. We got those birds at a discount ($12 million/aircraft ) , mainly because the original plan was to get more than 16.
> the successive goverment cancelled the deal for the remaining 8 migs ( for which we had paid some amount of money ) for political reasons. The 8 migs were later sold to belarus. This was done out of personal spite similar to how the BNS Banghabandhu , which was the most advanced frigate in South Asia (at that time) was retired and turned into a museum ship. They wanted to sell the 8 Migs that we currently have now to make some money.




The thing is with the replacement deal for the F-7s , I would personally wait and not replace them with the J-10Cs but with some stealth fighter like the Turkish TFX if we can get TOT to make them in Bangladesh.

By the time Bangladesh even thinks of inducting J-10c it will like 2030+ so too late , plus our economy is growing and you can have a big @ss economy all you want but if your defense is low you can kiss goodbye to development.

We also need SAMs specifically Medium range , and don't even get me started on our maritime claims that we will need to force which will require a much more serious Navy.


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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> The thing is with the replacement deal for the F-7s , I would personally wait and not replace them with the J-10Cs but with some stealth fighter like the Turkish TFX if we can get TOT to make them in Bangladesh.


i think 4++ gen fighters will remain relevant up until 2060s (germany will operate EFTs) . Once the TF project matures and comes into service with TAF, it will be a candidate for 5th gen fighter procurement.


SpaceMan18 said:


> maritime claims that we will need to force which will require a much more serious Navy.


agreed, Naval strategy is build strategy. BN will seek to procure more subs, LPD , frigates, research and recovery vessels in a recently published official document.
if we manage to extract resources from the Bay of Bengal natural gas in particular , it could provide a boost to the economy.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i think 4++ gen fighters will remain relevant up until 2060s (germany will operate EFTs) . Once the TF project matures and comes into service with TAF, it will be a candidate for 5th gen fighter procurement.
> 
> agreed, Naval strategy is build strategy. BN will seek to procure more subs, LPD , frigates, research and recovery vessels in a recently published official document.
> if we manage to extract resources from the Bay of Bengal natural gas in particular , it could provide a boost to the economy.



I guess and not even India is getting 5th gen fighters any time soon , but didn't Bangladesh Navy want like LHDs too lol ? But yes Frigates with ASW helicopters along with many Subs and maybe slide in 1-2 destroyers we can and hopefully will have a strong Navy. 

For LHDs I would prefer the Dokdo since we already operate a Korean Frigate 





She's a beauty plus we can use this for UN operations and humanitarian operations in our own nations during floods. Perfect command ship ( by the way BN wants LHDs not just my dumb@ss lol)

I also remember hearing about American LHDs helping us during our Moonsoon's disasters 

For Frigates I personally like South Korean and for future Destroyers Turkish ones will be nice

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> She's a beauty plus we can use this for UN operations and humanitarian operations in our own nations during floods. Perfect command ship ( by the way BN wants LHDs not just my dumb@ss lol)


i think these would be used for relief operations after cyclones and supplying UN troops?


SpaceMan18 said:


> For Frigates I personally like South Korean and for future Destroyers Turkish ones will be nice


nah frigates with VLS and medium-long range air defence will do fine no need for destroyers. we need an ASW helicopter for the frigates and some Maritime patrol aircraft with offensive capability.
let me introduce saab swordfish

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i think these would be used for relief operations after cyclones and supplying UN troops?
> 
> nah frigates with VLS and medium-long range air defence will do fine no need for destroyers. we need an ASW helicopter for the frigates and some Maritime patrol aircraft with offensive capability.
> let me introduce saab swordfish
> View attachment 742124




True I guess I mean we can get mix Frigate/Destroyer cause when you get something like an LHD you need something to spear head the carrier strike group and for that you need ships like an Destroyer or a Frigate nearly as strong as a Destroyer. 

But yes we definitely need these Maritime Patrol Aircrafts like the SAAB Swordfish

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## RadarGudumluMuhimmat

I don't want you to misunderstand what I have said, but Bangladesh is a cashless country, the purchase and maintenance costs are extraordinary, or instead of the aircraft that will (will reach), 4th generation air and ground missions and point-firing missiles will be much better.


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## SpaceMan18

RadarGudumluMuhimmat said:


> I don't want you to misunderstand what I have said, but Bangladesh is a cashless country, the purchase and maintenance costs are extraordinary, or instead of the aircraft that will (will reach), 4th generation air and ground missions and point-firing missiles will be much better.



It'd be a shame if those " ground systems" get bombed by our enemies and we can't hit em back since we don't have fighters to go out and hit em. 

Fighters are needed alongside missiles , can't do one without the other


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> I guess and not even India is getting 5th gen fighters any time soon , but didn't Bangladesh Navy want like LHDs too lol ? But yes Frigates with ASW helicopters along with many Subs and maybe slide in 1-2 destroyers we can and hopefully will have a strong Navy.
> 
> For LHDs I would prefer the Dokdo since we already operate a Korean Frigate
> View attachment 742119
> 
> She's a beauty plus we can use this for UN operations and humanitarian operations in our own nations during floods. Perfect command ship ( by the way BN wants LHDs not just my dumb@ss lol)
> 
> I also remember hearing about American LHDs helping us during our Moonsoon's disasters
> 
> For Frigates I personally like South Korean and for future Destroyers Turkish ones will be nice
> 
> 
> View attachment 742120


Before all that , in my opinion, I would rather see BN induct at least 4-5 medium tech subs. 2-3 high tech subs. BAF induct 2-4 squadrons of 4th gen MRCA and Medium range SAM network for the entire country. BA induct tactical Ballistic missiles and CM. 

All the above should be done within the next 5 years. 

if India and China clash within the next 5 years. War will be coming to BD . 

BD should focus on the next 5 years. The next 5 years deicide the fate of BD as a state, maybe the entire subcontinent.

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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> It'd be a shame if those " ground systems" get bombed by our enemies and we can't hit em back since we don't have fighters to go out and hit em.
> 
> Fighters are needed alongside missiles , can't do one without the other




Ideal scenario have both.... but I would rather have the missile arsenal than jets....look what the Iranians have been able to achieve.


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Before all that , in my opinion, I would rather see BN induct at least 4-5 medium tech subs. 2-3 high tech subs. BAF induct 2-4 squadrons of 4th gen MRCA and Medium range SAM network for the entire country. BA induct tactical Ballistic missiles and CM.
> 
> All the above should be done within the next 5 years.
> 
> if India and China clash within the next 5 years. War will be coming to BD .
> 
> BD should focus on the next 5 years. The next 5 years deicide the fate of BD as a state, maybe the entire subcontinent.



BD Government : *Yawns* we will not induct anything but make some 7.62mm bullets for our Bangubadu-47s that's all. 

But seriously I don't have much faith in Bangladesh's leadership in defense lol


mb444 said:


> Ideal scenario have both.... but I would rather have the missile arsenal than jets....look what the Iranians have been able to achieve.



True , if we're working on rockets might as well make a dam space agency lol


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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i think 4++ gen fighters will remain relevant up until 2060s (germany will operate EFTs) . Once the TF project matures and comes into service with TAF, it will be a candidate for 5th gen fighter procurement.





Germany is not a good example as they are buying more EFTs to support their industry and not because it is the most capable platform available - F-35As are way better.
Germany will start inducting the 5/6th gen FCAS from around 2040, which is it co-developing with France.


J-10C is probably a little late now and so BD should set its sight on the J-35 that should be available in the latter half of this year.

Western 4+ gen now(EFT?) for Myanmar and then best to jump onto Chinese 5th gen latter half of this decade to deal with India.


Anyway Western is not reliable against India at all as we just saw with the favours given to India as regards travel restrictions by both UK and USA, that neither BD or Pakistan got. Brexit UK is begging India for a trade deal right now.


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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> Germany is not a good example as they are buying more EFTs to support their industry and not because it is the most capable platform available - F-35As are way better.
> Germany will start inducting the 5/6th gen FCAS from around 2040, which is it co-developing with France.
> 
> 
> J-10C is probably a little late now and so BD should set its sight on the J-35 that should be available in the latter half of this year.
> 
> Western 4+ gen now(EFT?) and then best to jump onto Chinese 5th gen latter half of this decade.


i doubt india* given its track record of developing tejas , arjun *and myanmar which is literally on fire right now will be able to field significant amount no matter how much they like to brag with concept designs and acronyms. 

T-4 EFTs will be very capable jets and will remain relevant. let BAF get some experience with 4++ fighters first. 
the process of getting a new 5th gen fighters needsto be started soon. luckily by the time BAF looks to get a 5th Gen fighter , it will have plenty of choice Tf , Kf-21 block 3 , J-35 etc.


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> BD Government : *Yawns* we will not induct anything but make some 7.62mm bullets for our Bangubadu-47s that's all.
> 
> But seriously I don't have much faith in Bangladesh's leadership in defense lol
> 
> 
> True , if we're working on rockets might as well make a dam space agency lol



*In my opinion . Government is making the right noises now. *But how much work they can get in short time remains to be seen. * if GOB gets its act together, 2-3 years is enough. The noises BD government is making clash with India is inevitable. Matter of when , not if.*

SAM network in strategically set, Tactical and cruise missiles in overwhelming numbers, offensive drones in large numbers for BA and BN . Strengthening the submarine arm of BN from 2 subs to 8-10 will BD MASSIVE conventional edge when confronting India. Just by doing these thing BD will be able to Fight India conventionally for at least 2 months .

BAF is actually going in the right direction. Say by some miracle they manage to induct 2 squadron of MRCA in the next 3 years. Those 2 squadrons what will they do ? maybe a few interception/ raids and that's just about it. No *BAF is going the right way by focusing on offensive Drones , SAMS and radars. * If BAF inducts these in sufficient numbers, they will be far more effective and complementary for BA and BN then say MRCA.

*MRCA are expensive , if BAF buys in small numbers , they will knocked out in 48-72 hours from the start of war. For MRCA to be effective BAF needs to buy them in high numbers . There is 2 problems there . a) cash b) time . Not enough cash and not enough time to properly form doctrines to effectively use MRCA in sync with BA and BN. Large numbers of Offensive drones , and SAMs can be purchased for half the price of the MRCA's and can be 2wice the more effective in clash with India .*


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> 26th April in Belarus.
> 
> View attachment 741912
> 
> 
> View attachment 741913
> 
> 
> View attachment 741914


Oh look guys it farts less than it used to

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i doubt india* given its track record of developing tejas , arjun *and myanmar which is literally on fire right now will be able to field significant amount no matter how much they like to brag with concept designs and acronyms.
> 
> T-4 EFTs will be very capable jets and will remain relevant. let BAF get some experience with 4++ fighters first.
> the process of getting a new 5th gen fighters needsto be started soon. luckily by the time BAF looks to get a 5th Gen fighter , it will have plenty of choice Tf , Kf-21 block 3 , J-35 etc.




BAF now has a decent 4th gen fighter in the 4 upgraded Mig-29BM. I think the other 4 are in ByeloRussia getting upgraded as well.

These planes have relatively modern electronics and radars that should allow BAF to train in proper BVR fighting tactics and techniques.

Yes Western 4+ gen fighter(EFT?) is next on the list but please no more new 4th gen jet types after 2-3 squadrons of these. They are past their time to buy brand new and BAF should jump to Chinese J-35 next.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> BAF now has a decent 4th gen fighter in the 4 upgraded Mig-29BM. I think the other 4 are in ByeloRussia getting upgraded as well.
> 
> These planes have relatively modern electronics and radars that should allow BAF to train in proper BVR fighting tactics and techniques.
> 
> Yes Western 4+ gen fighter(EFT?) is next on the list but please no more new 4th gen jet types after 2-3 squadrons of these. They are past their time to buy brand new and BAF should jump to Chinese J-35 next.


5th generation fighters are thoroughly overrated and overpriced. The stealth factor will evaporate in a decade or so due to rapid advancements in ground radar tech. 

Watch the Vox documentary on F-35s.

BAF would be left with unnecessarily complicated fighters with a number of compromises to accommodate so-called "stealth".

BAF will be much better off investing heavily in 4++ gen fighters and then jumping straight onto supersonic UCAVs which will be a reality by 2050.

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## ziaulislam

News on russian forum that bengladesh is buyig su-47.
Any update?

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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> News on russian forum that bengladesh is buyig su-47.
> Any update?



Su-47?


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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> 5th generation fighters are thoroughly overrated and overpriced. The stealth factor will evaporate in a decade or so due to rapid advancements in ground radar tech.
> 
> Watch the Vox documentary on F-35s.
> 
> BAF would be left with unnecessarily complicated fighters with a number of compromises to accommodate so-called "stealth".
> 
> BAF will be much better off investing heavily in 4++ gen fighters and then jumping straight onto supersonic UCAVs which will be a reality by 2050.



I mean 2050 is a long dam way son , BD can at least meanwhile make a home grown aerospace industry or something. Turkish Tai TFX doesn't seem like a bad option either


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## Anubis

SpaceMan18 said:


> I mean 2050 is a long dam way son , BD can at least meanwhile make a home grown aerospace industry or something. Turkish Tai TFX doesn't seem like a bad option either


Building drones could be a great start...seeing how effective they were against Armenia...a small scale industry wont eat up a lot of our budget...just need some goodwill.

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## Bilal9

Bilal9 said:


> Like they say in Bangladesh "Purai dijital" (Can't pronounce digital).
> 
> But Roja Romzaner din - we shouldn't be showing/mentioning these things.



Did you guys know about the infamous Richard Gere who used (ahem) a "live" plug? It's open secret in the US BTW....heh heh.

Eibar buijjha lao....

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## SpaceMan18

Anubis said:


> Building drones could be a great start...seeing how effective they were against Armenia...a small scale industry wont eat up a lot of our budget...just need some goodwill.



I mean if Bangladesh isn't industrialized by 2050 it's pretty much over then , it should AT LEAST be able to make it's own drones indigenously with it's own electronics aka Walton can help with that.

Bangladesh needs to start with small arms development cause we can't follow India's method of making equipment which tends to be a failure at times.

If small nations like South Korea or Singapore can make assault rifles so can we , for ex like the South Korean K-2 which is based on an AR-100 I think.

If we can get our metallurgy up to a better level we can at least make our own rifles even if it's based on a design like the Styer AUG or the M-4 platform.

Bangladesh doesn't have too much resources or time on it's hands , it needs to industrialize and militarize quick and definitely try to make indigenous weapons.

South Korean K-2 






Singaporean SAR-21

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## Destranator

ziaulislam said:


> News on russian forum that bengladesh is buyig su-47.
> Any update?


Don't think BAF is aware.


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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> I mean 2050 is a long dam way son , BD can at least meanwhile make a home grown aerospace industry or something. Turkish Tai TFX doesn't seem like a bad option either


No it is a bad option.
Fcuk TAI FX, KFX, FAG FA, J-31, F-35, Su-57 and all other 5th gen fighters.
Just read into the developments costs and technical compromises being made for these fighters. Useless vanity projects.

BA is already fiddling a bit with UAVs.
BAF should take it further and establish a dedicated UAV R&D wing and prepare for the future.
The current lot of spinless BAF leaders will be gone one day. While other countries flush money down the toilet on fifth gen fighters, BAF has the opportunity to work towards building autonomous fighters jets which can potentially beat them all. Once prototyped, these can be cheaply mass produced in hundreds to overwhelm the enemy $200-$300 million vanity jets.

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> No it is a bad option.
> Fcuk TAI FX, KFX, FAG FA, J-31, F-35, Su-57 and all other 5th gen fighters.
> Just read into the developments costs and technical compromises being made for these fighters. Useless vanity projects.
> 
> BA is already fiddling a bit with UAVs.
> BAF should take it further and establish a dedicated UAV R&D wing and prepare for the future.
> The current lot of spinless BAF leaders will be gone one day. While other countries flush money down the toilet on fifth gen fighters, BAF has the opportunity to work towards building autonomous fighters jets which can potentially beat them all. Once prototyped, these can be cheaply mass produced in hundreds to overwhelm the enemy $200-$300 million vanity jets.



KF21/IFX is planned to have wingman STEALTH drone so basically one fighter can potentialy launch a lot of missile and bomb if it is realized. It is also fit with AESA radar capability that can target many enemy planes in one go.

The experience in developing KF21/IFX is essential to build Wingman STEALTH drone with IWB.

At least it needs 10 year of development to make MALE UCAV that is also happen with Indonesia MALE UCAV program and I propose Indonesia to make STEALTH UCAV wingman as soon as KF21/IFX completes its development in 2026 inshaAllah. It also include developing mission system, flight control system, and other electronics stuff.

You need to start now if wanting to develop any fighter drone in the future, starting from small scale UAV. Malaysia and Singapore despite having an aerospace company and budget (particularly Singapore) still dont have any MALE UCAV/UAV program until now. It needs steps and experience.

KF 21/IFX price is set at 65 milliion USD and by calculating inflation, so in 2028 it will be likely around 70-75 million USD inshaAllah.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> 5th generation fighters are thoroughly overrated and overpriced. The stealth factor will evaporate in a decade or so due to rapid advancements in ground radar tech.
> 
> Watch the Vox documentary on F-35s.
> 
> BAF would be left with unnecessarily complicated fighters with a number of compromises to accommodate so-called "stealth".
> 
> BAF will be much better off investing heavily in 4++ gen fighters and then jumping straight onto supersonic UCAVs which will be a reality by 2050.





Two things:


1. Fighter and AEW radars are more important when detecting other aircraft. Even in a decade they will not be able to detect stealth aircraft at anywhere near the range of other aircraft.

2. EW systems on aircraft can trick ground radars to not see them that easily and 5th gen fighters have the most advanced systems naturally.


There is a reason why USA(two planes and 6th gen now in development), China(one plane, one project and a 6th gen already in development) and Europe(two projects of 5/6 gen in development) are investing so much in this area. I think they know a bit more than some documentary maker.

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## SpaceMan18

Indos said:


> KF21/IFX is planned to have wingman STEALTH drone so basically one fighter can potentialy launch a lot of missile and bomb if it is realized. It is also fit with AESA radar capability that can target many enemy planes in one go.
> 
> The experience in developing KF21/IFX is essential to build Wingman STEALTH drone with IWB.
> 
> At least it needs 10 year of development to make MALE UCAV that is also happen with Indonesia MALE UCAV program and I propose Indonesia to make STEALTH UCAV wingman as soon as KF21/IFX completes its development in 2026 inshaAllah. It also include developing mission system, flight control system, and other electronics stuff.
> 
> You need to start now if wanting to develop any fighter drone in the future, starting from small scale UAV. Malaysia and Singapore despite having an aerospace company and budget (particularly Singapore) still dont have any MALE UCAV/UAV program until now. It needs steps and experience.
> 
> KF 21/IFX price is set at 65 milliion USD and by calculating inflation, so in 2028 it will be likely around 70-75 million USD inshaAllah.



I guess I agree , Indonesia, Bangladesh and maybe even Turkey should work together on the MALE Stealth UCAV since Turkey has the drone knowledge and experience in both manufacturing and in combat.

Looking forward I guess Bangladesh Aerospace needs to start now researching about drones and start to manufacture them indigenously.


UKBengali said:


> Two things:
> 
> 
> 1. Fighter and AEW radars are more important when detecting other aircraft. Even in a decade they will not be able to detect stealth aircraft at anywhere near the range of other aircraft.
> 
> 2. EW systems on aircraft can trick ground radars to not see them that easily and 5th gen fighters have the most advanced systems naturally.
> 
> 
> There is a reason why USA(two planes and 6th gen now in development), China(one plane, one project and a 6th gen already in development) and Europe(two projects of 5/6 gen in development) are investing so much in this area. I think they know a bit more than some documentary maker.



Well if that's the case lets go get the TFX or the KFX *if* needed by 2030+ , I think 4++ gen will do since not even India will get 5th gen by then and not Myanmar for sure.


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Well if that's the case lets go get the TFX or the KFX *if* needed by 2030+ , I think 4++ gen will do since not even India will get 5th gen by then and not Myanmar for sure.





KFX is an aircraft that will use US engines and Korea is heavily US influenced. We saw with Corona virus travel restrictions just how much favouritism India got over BD in closing their border much later to Indian arrivals than BD.


TFX will not probably be ready for export till the mid-2030s and there is a massive question mark over the engines. It will either fly with 5th gen UK engines or 4th -gen Turkish engines.


Only China can reliably build a 5th gen fighter as it already operates the J-20 and can supply BD in times of war if it wanted to. Turkey may try but will not be able to get past the IN blockade.


J-35 latter part of this decade and TF-X if it succeeds in the 2030s. No need to even think about KFX as it has too many downsides, main one being that you may as well buy F-35 from US if that was on offer.


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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> KFX is an aircraft that will use US engines and Korea is heavily US influenced. We saw with Corona virus travel restrictions just how much favouratism India got over BD in closing their border much later to Indian arrivals than BD.
> 
> 
> TFX will not probably be ready for export till the mid-2030s and there is a massive question mark over the engines. It will either fly with 5th gen UK engines or 4th -gen Turkish engines.
> 
> 
> Only China can reliably build a 5th gen fighter as it already operates the J-20 and can supply BD in times of war if it wanted to. Turkey may try but will not be able to get past the IN blockade.
> 
> 
> J-35 latter part of this decade and TF-X if it succeeds in the 2030s. No need to even think about KFX as it has too many downsides, main one being that you may as well buy F-35 from US if that was on offer.



The thing is that you trust China aka a nation who funds both sides , that same jet can be bought by Myanmar and Chinese jet engines aren't even stealth lol so defeats their whole purpose of the J-20 or even J-35. 

Turkey will be probably flying with the 5th gen engine since why would they even consider putting their 4th gen engine unless the Brits block it but I'm sure they won't hopefully.


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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> The thing is that you trust China aka a nation who funds both sides , that same jet can be bought by Myanmar and Chinese jet engines aren't even stealth lol so defeats their whole purpose of the J-20 or even J-35.
> 
> Turkey will be probably flying with the 5th gen engine since why would they even consider putting their 4th gen engine unless the Brits block it but I'm sure they won't hopefully.




J-35 for India. Not for Myanmar.

Chinese are developing a 5th gen (11:1 T/W ratio engine) for J-35 and that should be ready by end of this decade when the aircraft will probably be available.

China is developing its military tech faster than anyone else and their weapons will just get better with time.

BAF can buy TF-X for Myanmar and that will also be useful against India.

Plan should be as follows in order:


1. 2-3 squadrons Western 4+ gen(up to 2030)
2. 2-3 squadrons Chinese J-35. ( 2025 -2035)
3. 2-3 squadrons of TF-X(2035-2040)

The aircraft should realistically be available at these times and BD will most probably be able to afford them at these timescales as well.

KF-X and J-10Cs are distractions from creating an effective airforce with the most secure suppliers as possible.


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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> J-35 for India. Not for Myanmar.
> 
> Chinese are developing a 5th gen (11:1 T/W ratio engine) for J-35 and that should be ready by end of this decade when the aircraft will probably be available.
> 
> China is develoiping its military tech faster than anyone else and their weapons will just get better with time.
> 
> BAF can buy TF-X for Myanmar and that will also be useful against India.
> 
> Plan should be as follows in order:
> 
> 
> 1. 2-3 squadrons Western 4+ gen(up to 2030)
> 2. 2-3 squadrons Chinese J-35. ( 2025 -2035)
> 3. 2-3 squadrons of TF-X(2035-2040)
> 
> The aircraft should realistically be available at these times and BD will most probably be able to afford them at these timescales.
> 
> KF-X and J-10Cs are distractions from creating an effective airforce with the most secure suppliers as possible.




Unless the BAF leadership changes , I don't even expect more than 1 squadron of EFT let alone 2-3 squadrons of J-35 or even TFX 

What about AWACS or EW ? or even a Layered SAM network ? Without these , Fighters are useless

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Unless the BAF leadership changes , I don't even expect more than 1 squadron of EFT let alone 2-3 squadrons of J-35 or even TFX
> 
> What about AWACS or EW ? or even a Layered SAM network ? Without these , Fighters are useless





What you say is probably true as regards BAF at this time but my timeline runs to 2040 and so you never know.

Yes comprehensive MRSAM network needs to come in before the Western 4+ gen jets arrive. 1 billion US dollars will be well spent.

As regards AWACs I really like the Swedish Global Eye which has 450km range against non-stealth fighter aircraft and 12 hour endurance. 3-4 of these would be ideal for BD and would provide coverage for the whole of BD and the surrounding Bay of Bengal

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> What you say is probably true as regards BAF at this time but my timeline runs to 2040 and so you never know.
> 
> Yes comprehensive MRSAM network needs to come in before the Western 4+ gen jets arrive. 1 billion US dollars will be well spent.
> 
> As regards AWACs I really like the Swedish Global Eye which has 450km range against non-stealth fighter aircraft and 12 hour endurance. 3-4 of these would be ideal for BD and would provide coverage for the whole of BD and the surrounding Bay of Bengal



Yes the Swedish Global Eye is a MUST , but yes I think personally BAF will be FORCED to change just like how Bangladesh will be FORCED to industrialize due to the rise of A.I. 

No matter what we say all routes point towards Bangladesh eventually waking up and taking development seriously 

or 

Bangladesh failing and getting sunk by the sea 



If this was a game I can't stress this enough Industrialization is the next level Bangladesh must unlock if it want's to go ahead.

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## UKBengali

SpaceMan18 said:


> Yes the Swedish Global Eye is a MUST , but yes I think personally BAF will be FORCED to change just like how Bangladesh will be FORCED to industrialize due to the rise of A.I.
> 
> No matter what we say all routes point towards Bangladesh eventually waking up and taking development seriously
> 
> or
> 
> Bangladesh failing and getting sunk by the sea
> 
> 
> 
> If this was a game I can't stress this enough Industrialization is the next level Bangladesh must unlock if it want's to go ahead.





I am holding onto some hope as 4 Mig-29s have already been upgraded and the other 4 are now in the process of being from what I have seen and read.

It would be amazing if by 2030 BAF somehow managed to not have in service 2-3 squadrons of 4+ gen jets. It may seem this could easily happen as of now but once BAF buys its first squadron then more will naturally follow much easier, as it would have the infrastructure and supplier relationship already establised and as BD economy keeps growing the government can supply the funding.

Those who think there is Indian pressure are wrong as India has far more to fear from the 18 Turkish TRG-300 MLRS(120 km range) that have started to arrive in BD than a few squadrons of fighter aircraft.


The below system can within minutes destroy a surrounding IAF base or cripple Kolkata port while hidden 10s of kms within BD.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> I am holding onto some hope as 4 Mig-29s have already been upgraded and the other 4 are now in the process of being from what I have seen and read.
> 
> It would be amazing if by 2030 BAF somehow managed to not have in service 2-3 squadrons of 4+ gen jets. It may seem this could easily happen as of now but once BAF buys its first squadron then more will naturally follow much easier, as it would have the infrastructure and supplier relationship already establised and as BD economy keeps growing the government can supply the funding.
> 
> Those who think there is Indian pressure are wrong as India has far more to fear from the 18 Turkish TRG-300 MLRS(120 km range) that have started to arrive in BD than a few squadrons of fighter aircraft.
> 
> 
> The below system can within minutes destroy a surrounding IAF base or cripple Kolkata airport while hidden 10s of kms within BD.
> 
> View attachment 742327



True , I try to keep hope with the BAF but I guess this year or next definitely we will hear about the MRCA deal for sure.


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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> True , I try to keep hope with the BAF but I guess this year or next definitely we will hear about the MRCA deal for sure.



Not only BAF, even Indonesia and Malaysia are still not sure about their MRCA program. These three countries are very economic centric and with Covid is still happening, I suspect these three countries will not buy any new fighter until 2024.

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## SpaceMan18

I still remember this image where our BAF officers or pilots went to visit the EFT lol 






Indos said:


> Not only BAF, even Indonesia and Malaysia are still not sure about their MRCA program. These three countries are very economic centric and with Covid is still happening, I suspect these three countries will not buy any new fighter until 2024.



Yeah I agree , at least you guys have F-16s and upcoming KFX while we have nothing

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## Indos

It will be cost effective to wait either KF 21 or J 35 to be mass produced since both are newer generation and much cheaper than Western nation fighters. KF 21 belly is modular that could potentially be upgraded into IWB version that is planned to be developed. This will make the fighters can be useful even for beyond 2040 threat

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> It will be cost effective to wait either KF 21 or J 35 to be mass produced since both are newer generation and much cheaper than Western nation fighters




Problem is BD needs something now and cannot wait till 2030. It only has 8 somewhat modern Mig-29s but these are not that good as the technology level is probably 1990s Western.

1-2 squadrons of Western 4+ gen fighters are needed this decade on an urgent basis.

As long as BD's economy grows as expected till 2035(forecast at 7%+) then BD can buy a mix of different fighters over the next 1-2 decades.

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## Indos

SpaceMan18 said:


> I still remember this image where our BAF officers or pilots went to visit the EFT lol
> View attachment 742331
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I agree , at least you guys have F-16s and upcoming KFX while we have nothing





UKBengali said:


> Problem is BD needs something now and cannot wait till 2030. It only has 8 somewhat modern Mig-29s but these are not that good as the technology level is probably 1990s Western.
> 
> 1-2 squadrons of Western 4+ gen fighters are needed this decade on an urgent basis.
> 
> As long as BD's economy grows as expected till 2035(forecast at 7%+) then BD can buy a mix of different fighters over the next 1-2 decades.



As you dont have any problem buying J 35, so why dont buy JF 17 block 2 from Pakistan ......

Both also has similar engine


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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> As you dont have any problem buying J 35, so why dont buy JF 17 block 2 from Pakistan ......
> 
> Both also has similar engine




BD needs something a LOT better than what Myanmar has and can get this decade and needs something reliable against Myanmar and at this time only a Western 4+ gen jet fits this bill.

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## Indos

UKBengali said:


> BD needs something a LOT better than what Myanmar has and can get this decade and needs something reliable against Myanmar and at this time only a Western 4+ gen jet fits this bill.



With the money you are going to be spent for Eurofighter, I recommended a combination of JF 17 block 2 and NASAMS system if the treat is immediate

Buying Eurofighter is a lost of money in the transition into 5 generation war, the planes cannot be upgraded into 5 generation one. Just see what happen during Israel vs Arab war, having less capable fighter means lost in war

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## UKBengali

Indos said:


> With the money you are going to be spent for Eurofighter, I recommended a combination of JF 17 block 2 and NASAMS system if the treat is immediate
> 
> Buying Eurofighter is a lost of money in the transition into 5 generation war, the planes cannot be upgraded into 5 generation one. Just see what happen during Israel vs Arab war, having less capable fighter means lost in war



China cannot be trusted against Myanmar and BD needs something that can neutralise the MAF with just 1-2 squadrons of 4+ gen jets.

EFT is by far the best 4+ gen jet as the UK is developing the Mk 2 Captor E AESA radar which will be better than anything that Korea develops for KFX, very powerful EJ-2000 engines and with canard-delta design superb high-altitude aerodynamic performance and will also come equipped with the excellent Meteor missile. 

BD is not super-poor anymore and its economy is expected to grow at 7%+ per annum till 2035 and so 1-2 squadrons of EFT will not take funds away from building a 5th gen fleet from the latter part of this decade.

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## The Ronin

Also Indoanesian and Malaysian air force.





__ https://www.facebook.com/battle.machines2012/posts/1933328033482441







SpaceMan18 said:


> Cool , I was wondering if we can make our F-7s capable of using cruise missiles ?



We are using Turkish Teber guidance kit in our F-7. So i guess we can use this mini cruise missile too.









Kuzgun Modular Joint Ammunition Developed by TÜBİTAK SAGE Displayed


Raven Modular Joint Ammunition Developed by TÜBİTAK SAGE Displayed - Minister of National Defense Hulusi Akar, Minister of Industry and Technology Mustafa Varank and TAF Command Level Visited TÜBİTAK SAGE President of TÜBİTAK Prof. Dr.




en.rayhaber.com





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390663423420207107


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## F-6 enthusiast

this guy is *claiming *that the defence budget will be 5+ billion USD and that 6000 crore BDT will be allocated separately for BAF (maybe as a deposit )

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## Jobless Jack

F-6 enthusiast said:


> this guy is *claiming *that the defence budget will be 5+ billion USD and that 6000 crore BDT will be allocated separately for BAF (maybe as a deposit )


For 6000 crore BDT what can BAF get and at the earliest when they arrive ?

the defense budget should be higher at least for the next 2-3 years. BD needs some quick off the shelf purchases now for immediate upgrade.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Jobless Jack said:


> For 6000 crore BDT what can BAF get and at the earliest when they arrive ?


if it is allocated its probably a deposit , the financing for EFT will have to be through loans similar to how egypt is financing recent rafale purchase with france.


Jobless Jack said:


> the defense budget should be higher at least for the next 2-3 years. BD needs some quick off the shelf purchases now for immediate upgrade.


agreed

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## Jobless Jack

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if it is allocated its probably a deposit , the financing for EFT will have to be through loans similar to how egypt is financing recent rafale purchase with france.


how quickly rafael will arrive ?


----------



## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> this guy is *claiming *that the defence budget will be 5+ billion USD and that 6000 crore BDT will be allocated separately for BAF (maybe as a deposit )


 
Does Informative Bangla have any sources or links that the budget will be 5+ billion dollars for the BAF ?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Jobless Jack said:


> how quickly rafael will arrive ?


don't really know how long it will take for egypt to get rafales but im thinking at 2-3 years probably.


SpaceMan18 said:


> Does Informative Bangla have any sources or links that the budget will be 5+ billion dollars for the BAF ?


im looking for links to the budget to confirm or deny his points. guess we'll have to wait until 3 june to see if the money is allocated


SpaceMan18 said:


> 5+ billion dollars for the BAF ?


not 5+ billion for BAF , only 5+ billion as the total defence budget. I believe money for procurement is not taken from military budget , but allocated separately.

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## X-ray Papa

Any news about combat drones?


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## SpaceMan18

X-ray Papa said:


> Any news about combat drones?



Not really , ever since the Wing Loo 2 drone I haven't heard much


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> this guy is *claiming *that the defence budget will be 5+ billion USD and that 6000 crore BDT will be allocated separately for BAF (maybe as a deposit )


He claimed many things with masum… still waiting on that sukhoi

anyways here’s an idea for bd. Why not invest 1 billion dollar on ethereum now, when it reaches 10k this year, that’s 2.5 billion in bd govt. pocket or when it reaches 20 thousand that’s 5.1 billion
I mean they could literally fund defence budget with cryptocurrency 😂

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> He claimed many things with masum… still waiting on that sukhoi
> 
> anyways here’s an idea for bd. Why not invest 1 billion dollar on ethereum now, when it reaches 20$ this year, that’s 2.5 billion in bd govt. pocket or when it reaches 20 thousand that’s 5.1 billion
> I mean they could literally fund defence budget with cryptocurrency 😂


The day BD politicians understand how crypto currencies work, that will be the end of BD as a state

Every singly digit of cash will be wiped off and removed from the country.

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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> The day BD politicians understand how crypto currencies work, that will be the end of BD as a state
> 
> Every singly digit of cash will be wiped off and removed from the country.


Hey atleast we can use kuttacoin 😂

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Hey atleast we can use kuttacoin 😂


Shiba Inu and HasanulHuq Inu are the key players

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Shiba Inu and HasanulHuq Inu are the key players



Ah yes DogeCoin 


I was expecting BangubanduCoin but I guess we'll have to wait to see

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ah yes DogeCoin
> 
> 
> I was expecting BangubanduCoin but I guess we'll have to wait to see


I would buy BangabandhuCoin in a heartbeat.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> I would buy BangabandhuCoin in a heartbeat.





There's a new coin... Rallied real hard this weak... Touted as the doge killer... Shib coin.

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## Destranator

DalalErMaNodi said:


> There's a new coin... Rallied real hard this weak... Touted as the doge killer... Shib coin.


That's Shiba Inu, pioneered by Hasan ul Haq Inu.

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## F-6 enthusiast

if BD wants to get its hands on AH-64s , F-18/16 etc it will need to sign this agreement with the US 

Tbh this sounds like giving up our sovereignty 
*Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement (ACSA)*
The Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement (ACSA) provides the basic framework for cooperation in military logistic matters.This important international agreement provides for the exchange of logistic support, supplies and services on a reimbursable basis. It is focused on logistical support. The agreement does not, in any way commit a country to any military action.

As of October 2003, the US had ACSAs with 76 countries, including most NATO nations, as well as the NATO Maintenance and Supply Agency (NAMSA), NATO Allied Command Transformation, and SHAPE. At that time there were seven ACSAs awaiting final signature by the country and the appropriate combatant commander. As of mid-2004 the US had 76 ACSAs in place with coalition members, allies and other organizations worldwide.

ACSAs reduce logistics burdens and are considered "critical logistics enablers" by providing on site commanders increased interoperability, enhanced operational readiness and cost effective mutual support. The ACSA accomplishes this by establishing a mechanism to provide logistical supplies between two parties in exchange for reimbursement either in cash, replacement in kind, or equal value exchange.

An ACSA is an agreements negotiated on a bilateral basis with US allies or coalition partners that allow US forces to exchange most common types of support, including food, fuel, transportation, ammunition, and equipment. Authority to negotiate these agreements is usually delegated to the combatant commander by the Secretary of Defense. Authority to execute these agreements lies with the Secretary of Defense, and may or may not be delegated. Governed by legal guidelines, these agreements are used for contingencies, peacekeeping operations, unforeseen emergencies, or exercises to correct logistic deficiencies that cannot be adequately corrected by national means. The support received or given is reimbursed under the conditions of the acquisition and cross-servicing agreement.

The Acquisition and Cross Servicing Agreement (ACSA) statute (formerly known as "NATO Mutual Support Act") was enacted to simplify exchanges of logistic support, supplies, and services between the United States and other NATO forces. It was subsequently amended in 1986, 1992, and 1994: to permit acquisition and cross-servicing agreements (ACSAs) with the governments of eligible non-NATO countries; to require equal-value exchanges (EVEs) of logistic support, supplies, and services; to allow ACSAs with United Nations organizations; and to authorize the loan or lease of equipment. Annual reports are required listing all ACSA transactions in the previous fiscal year and projecting requirements for the next fiscal year.

The ACSA authorities provide the combatant commanders and the Service component or sub-unified commands the means to acquire and provide mutual logistic support during training, exercises and military operations, or to permit expedited access to the logistics assets of foreign country armed forces to satisfy the logistics support requirements of deployed US Armed Forces.

DOD components may use acquisition-only authority to acquire of logistic support, supplies and services (LSSS) from a country, not a member of NATO, if it meets one or more of the following criteria: (1) Has a defense alliance with the United States. (2) Permits the stationing of members of the US Armed Forces or the home porting of US naval vessels in such a country. (3) Has agreed to pre-position US materiel in such a country. (4) Serves as host country for US Armed Forces during exercises or permits other US military operations in such a country.

Cross-servicing agreements with authorized countries and international organizations provide for the reciprocal provision of LSSS with the military forces of that country or international organization. The Secretary of Defense must consult with the Secretary of State and provide 30-day advance notification to the Committees on Armed Services and Foreign Relations of the US Senate and the Committees on Armed Services and International Relations of the US House of Representatives before designating non-NATO countries as authorized for cross-servicing agreements.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if BD wants to get its hands on AH-64s , F-18/16 etc it will need to sign this agreement with the US
> 
> Tbh this sounds like giving up our sovereignty
> *Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement (ACSA)*
> The Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement (ACSA) provides the basic framework for cooperation in military logistic matters.This important international agreement provides for the exchange of logistic support, supplies and services on a reimbursable basis. It is focused on logistical support. The agreement does not, in any way commit a country to any military action.
> 
> As of October 2003, the US had ACSAs with 76 countries, including most NATO nations, as well as the NATO Maintenance and Supply Agency (NAMSA), NATO Allied Command Transformation, and SHAPE. At that time there were seven ACSAs awaiting final signature by the country and the appropriate combatant commander. As of mid-2004 the US had 76 ACSAs in place with coalition members, allies and other organizations worldwide.
> 
> ACSAs reduce logistics burdens and are considered "critical logistics enablers" by providing on site commanders increased interoperability, enhanced operational readiness and cost effective mutual support. The ACSA accomplishes this by establishing a mechanism to provide logistical supplies between two parties in exchange for reimbursement either in cash, replacement in kind, or equal value exchange.
> 
> An ACSA is an agreements negotiated on a bilateral basis with US allies or coalition partners that allow US forces to exchange most common types of support, including food, fuel, transportation, ammunition, and equipment. Authority to negotiate these agreements is usually delegated to the combatant commander by the Secretary of Defense. Authority to execute these agreements lies with the Secretary of Defense, and may or may not be delegated. Governed by legal guidelines, these agreements are used for contingencies, peacekeeping operations, unforeseen emergencies, or exercises to correct logistic deficiencies that cannot be adequately corrected by national means. The support received or given is reimbursed under the conditions of the acquisition and cross-servicing agreement.
> 
> The Acquisition and Cross Servicing Agreement (ACSA) statute (formerly known as "NATO Mutual Support Act") was enacted to simplify exchanges of logistic support, supplies, and services between the United States and other NATO forces. It was subsequently amended in 1986, 1992, and 1994: to permit acquisition and cross-servicing agreements (ACSAs) with the governments of eligible non-NATO countries; to require equal-value exchanges (EVEs) of logistic support, supplies, and services; to allow ACSAs with United Nations organizations; and to authorize the loan or lease of equipment. Annual reports are required listing all ACSA transactions in the previous fiscal year and projecting requirements for the next fiscal year.
> 
> The ACSA authorities provide the combatant commanders and the Service component or sub-unified commands the means to acquire and provide mutual logistic support during training, exercises and military operations, or to permit expedited access to the logistics assets of foreign country armed forces to satisfy the logistics support requirements of deployed US Armed Forces.
> 
> DOD components may use acquisition-only authority to acquire of logistic support, supplies and services (LSSS) from a country, not a member of NATO, if it meets one or more of the following criteria: (1) Has a defense alliance with the United States. (2) Permits the stationing of members of the US Armed Forces or the home porting of US naval vessels in such a country. (3) Has agreed to pre-position US materiel in such a country. (4) Serves as host country for US Armed Forces during exercises or permits other US military operations in such a country.
> 
> Cross-servicing agreements with authorized countries and international organizations provide for the reciprocal provision of LSSS with the military forces of that country or international organization. The Secretary of Defense must consult with the Secretary of State and provide 30-day advance notification to the Committees on Armed Services and Foreign Relations of the US Senate and the Committees on Armed Services and International Relations of the US House of Representatives before designating non-NATO countries as authorized for cross-servicing agreements.




The shortest was to summarize this Acquisition Deal is basically

*Uncle Sam will provide you with their weapons if you promise to join within their sphere of influence for strategic goals.*

So Bangladesh will probably never get American weapons cause we're 50/50 with both China and America , if we want these weapons we'll need to be 70/30 aka more leaning towards America.

Plus America has strings to these weapons so even if Bangladesh manages to acquire these modern equipment's America will use these weapons to put pressure on Bangladesh

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> The shortest was to summarize this Acquisition Deal is basically
> 
> *Uncle Sam will provide you with their weapons if you promise to join within their sphere of influence for strategic goals.*
> 
> So Bangladesh will probably never get American weapons cause we're 50/50 with both China and America , if we want these weapons we'll need to be 70/30 aka more leaning towards America.
> 
> Plus America has strings to these weapons so even if Bangladesh manages to acquire these modern equipment's America will use these weapons to put pressure on Bangladesh


But what will BD do if the Chinese make demand the same thing? Running to turkey and Pakistan wont help as Both are respectively in Chinese or NATO camp.

Unless the Chinese ambassador goes on record to apologize for his statement.. this is what comes next.


Michael Corleone said:


> Hey atleast we can use kuttacoin 😂


Kuttacoin ? 

If a single BD politicians hear this. All the Dogs in BD will be dead. 

Why sacrifice such loyal beasts for the interests of a bunch of disloyal beasts ?


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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ah yes DogeCoin
> 
> 
> I was expecting BangubanduCoin but I guess we'll have to wait to see


I’ve a friend and was discussing the idea with him, I would call it bongo but don’t want to be arrested you know.
We decided against it 😂


DalalErMaNodi said:


> There's a new coin... Rallied real hard this weak... Touted as the doge killer... Shib coin.


Not gonna succeed just look at the number of circulating coin and market cap. It would need to be bigger than US gdp to beat dogecoin


Jobless Jack said:


> Kuttacoin ?
> 
> If a single BD politicians hear this. All the Dogs in BD will be dead.
> 
> Why sacrifice such loyal beasts for the interests of a bunch of disloyal beasts ?


😂😫

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> even a Layered SAM network ?


Baf will use Sam only for base protection. Army is responsible for layered Air defense network.

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## The Ronin



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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


>



Looks cool , but *definitely not intimidating *  

I guess we'll have to wait for the Euro Fighter Typhoon deal to be made by 2021/2022


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> But what will BD do if the Chinese make demand the same thing? Running to turkey and Pakistan wont help as Both are respectively in Chinese or NATO camp.
> 
> Unless the Chinese ambassador goes on record to apologize for his statement.. this is what comes next.
> 
> Kuttacoin ?
> 
> If a single BD politicians hear this. All the Dogs in BD will be dead.
> 
> Why sacrifice such loyal beasts for the interests of a bunch of disloyal beasts ?



Turkey is just Turkey they aren't 100% siding with China yet , Bangladesh in the end of the day needs to make it's own dam weapons if it can

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## UKBengali

Jobless Jack said:


> But what will BD do if the Chinese make demand the same thing? Running to turkey and Pakistan wont help as Both are respectively in Chinese or NATO camp.
> 
> Unless the Chinese ambassador goes on record to apologize for his statement.. this is what comes next.




No, China will not make the same demand as a militarily powerful non-aligned BD is in their strategic interest.

India will have another military power, apart from Pakistan, to think about in S Asia and that helps China.

By refusing weapons to BD, China makes itself a little weaker.

Only the US attaches these conditions and BD does not really even need US weapons that much, as similar products can be had from Europe.

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## F-6 enthusiast

typhoon pilot explains how the CAPTOR-E AESA radar gives EFT the information superiority through sensor fusion and massive radar.





Striker 2 helmet second only to the F-35 helmet. combat info and targeting is integrated into the helmet giving excellent situational awareness. the pilot can target. It includes tactical information (in wide angle colour display and night vision). Essentially a heads up diplay on helmet.





compare this with the F-35 helmet





EW system on typhoon (for s-400)

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> typhoon pilot explains how the CAPTOR-E AESA radar gives EFT the information superiority through sensor fusion and massive radar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Striker 2 helmet second only to the F-35 helmet. combat info and targeting is integrated into the helmet giving excellent situational awareness. the pilot can target. It includes tactical information (in wide angle colour display and night vision). Essentially a heads up diplay on helmet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> compare this with the F-35 helmet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EW system on typhoon (for s-400)



Hmm I was thinking what if Bangladesh got second hand Harriers from a certain nation and when BN finally gets an LHD it can deploy it's Harriers from that carrier.

I don't know the exact price of an Harrier but I saw somewhere it's like 30 million usd

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## The Ronin

__ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1252923911792146


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hmm I was thinking what if Bangladesh got second hand Harriers from a certain nation and when BN finally gets an LHD it can deploy it's Harriers from that carrier.
> 
> I don't know the exact price of an Harrier but I saw somewhere it's like 30 million usd
> View attachment 743488


Rather see BN with a massive and extremly potent submarine fleet. LHD is an open target and will requiere escort vessels ( themselves open target ).

10-12 mixture of high tech low tech subs and BN will rule the bay

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/baf.mil.bd/posts/1252923911792146


Defseca: breaking BAF looking into f35 for its future MRCA

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Defseca: breaking BAF looking into f35 for its future MRCA


Then get hal tejas block 3

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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Rather see BN with a massive and extremly potent submarine fleet. LHD is an open target and will requiere escort vessels ( themselves open target ).
> 
> 10-12 mixture of high tech low tech subs and BN will rule the bay



We better rule the Bay of Bengal by 2030+ or else no more resources for us. But yeah Subs make more sense in the long run or maybe getting TOT might help.


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> We better rule the Bay of Bengal by 2030+ or else no more resources for us. But yeah Subs make more sense in the long run or maybe getting TOT might help.


Actually BD better start Doing everything TOT improving on those tech and ultimately producing its own version. 

In the recent episode involving the Chinese ambassador, *it clearly shows foreign powers are attempting to influence the BD foreign policy.* Ok. BD dodged a bullet with the Chinese ambassador. But the game is just beginning. *The Chinese transformed the Awami league from in the closet India supporters to officially mute and neutral .* This has exposed a severe weakness in BD foreign policy. Not that I am saying reducing Indian influence is bad thing! But I think you understand what I mean. 

The only way, BD will be able to maintain a independent foreign policy is if they start developing their own tech to meet their own needs. Self sufficient. I don't mean just military but economic fields as well. Therefore become less reliant on foreign countries for access to high tech . Because foreign powers will use this as leverage to sway the foreign policy of BD to their side. 

Ok today China/ USA/ Turkey/ put-any-name-here is not attaching strings. tomorrow ? one year from now ? 10 years from now ? Maybe the strings being attached are tolerable . how long before they become intolerable ?


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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> Hmm I was thinking what if Bangladesh got second hand Harriers from a certain nation and when BN finally gets an LHD it can deploy it's Harriers from that carrier.
> 
> I don't know the exact price of an Harrier but I saw somewhere it's like 30 million usd
> View attachment 743488


nah Bro we need a maritime patrol aircraft (and a decent one capable of ASW and anti-shipping) before we have fleet air arm. 

Harriers will be put out of service by USMC (which will get F-35B) and i doubt we could get them plus Royal navy harriers were retired a couple of years ago. The italians will get rid of theirs as well. 
MAybe the production line has been closed. 
this leaves us with F-35B which we will never get our hands on unless we sell out to US. 

*if a naval fighter is ever inducted*, its best if we have a land based naval fighter with long range like the russian navy 





i'm not suggesting su-30sm , but similar land based naval jets that have long legs and long range Anti-ship missiles.

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## Avicenna

Thoughts about BAF chief visiting US?

Meeting with USAF Chief of staff.

Visiting LockMart and Boeing.

Any ideas?

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Thoughts about BAF chief visiting US?
> 
> Meeting with USAF Chief of staff.
> 
> Visiting LockMart and Boeing.
> 
> Any ideas?



Jukto rashtrer shathey Bangladesher shomporko aro progarho hobey.

I think USAF Chief of staff may have aerospace "offers" for this Hasina relative. He will be briefed on them. QUAD is lobbying hard with Bangladesh.

There is a chance we might be getting Lockheed's F-16 Block 60.

But in all reality they will offer us this subsonic thing and call it a day (T-7 Red Hawk),






Bangladesh in my opinion should not throw in its fate with QUAD.

Indians will have full access to our cantonments and territory under QUAD.

And Chinese investments in Bangladesh will grind to a halt. There goes our future.

I am disappointed at Chinese foot dragging over Rohingya issue, this was a crucial fork in the road.

This is the perfect excuse India and Hasina have to go with the QUAD.

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Jukto rashtrer shathey Bangladesher shomporko aro progarho hobey.
> 
> I think USAF Chief of staff may have "offers" for this Hasina relative. He will be briefed on them. QUAD is lobbying hard with Bangladesh,
> 
> Bangladesh in my opinion should not throw in its fate with QUAD.
> 
> Indians will have full access to our cantonments and territory under QUAD.
> 
> And Chinese investments in Bangladesh will grind to a halt. There goes our future.
> 
> I am disappointed at Chinese foot dragging over Rohingya issue.
> 
> This is the perfect excuse India and Hasina have to go with the QUAD.



This thread below is significant.

Read it and think about the big picture.





__





US sixth gen fighter making rapid progress, to enter service by end of decade


The Air Force is preparing to unveil a new 30-year fighter force design that includes at least two all-new fighters, a much greater use of autonomous and unmanned aircraft, a new way of providing close air support, and a narrowing timeline for retiring aircraft such as the A-10, F-16, and F-22...



defence.pk





Looks like countries better choose and choose fast.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> MAybe the production line has been closed


Loooong time ago all parts are either custom fabrication or salvaged

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> This thread below is significant.
> 
> Read it and think about the big picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US sixth gen fighter making rapid progress, to enter service by end of decade
> 
> 
> The Air Force is preparing to unveil a new 30-year fighter force design that includes at least two all-new fighters, a much greater use of autonomous and unmanned aircraft, a new way of providing close air support, and a narrowing timeline for retiring aircraft such as the A-10, F-16, and F-22...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like countries better choose and choose fast.


Wow if US plans to keep f16s beyond 2030 it’s not going to be a bad choice for bd to get in it. 
joining quad will probably be part of the deal for a discount. I don’t know if we will take it.


----------



## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> This thread below is significant.
> 
> Read it and think about the big picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US sixth gen fighter making rapid progress, to enter service by end of decade
> 
> 
> The Air Force is preparing to unveil a new 30-year fighter force design that includes at least two all-new fighters, a much greater use of autonomous and unmanned aircraft, a new way of providing close air support, and a narrowing timeline for retiring aircraft such as the A-10, F-16, and F-22...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like countries better choose and choose fast.



Well in terms of NGAD all I can say is the USAF generals can dream of "Khayali Pulao" or "Swapna ka Rasgulla" all they want but there has to be concrete funding. For either manned or unmanned craft.

This NGAD thing is facing some tough headwinds in the Hill. More to come I guess, but not really relevant to us when we are probably looking at F-16's...just my take.


----------



## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> This thread below is significant.
> 
> Read it and think about the big picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US sixth gen fighter making rapid progress, to enter service by end of decade
> 
> 
> The Air Force is preparing to unveil a new 30-year fighter force design that includes at least two all-new fighters, a much greater use of autonomous and unmanned aircraft, a new way of providing close air support, and a narrowing timeline for retiring aircraft such as the A-10, F-16, and F-22...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like countries better choose and choose fast.





I am very confident that China's 6th generation fighter equivalent will be ready for service by mid 2030s.

They were already researching it before J-20 came into service in 2017 and there has been some information already leaked about its variable cycle engine. This is something it will share with the UK's Tempest fighter that is due for service in 2035 and I think the US 6th gen fighter will also use them.

The military tech gap between US and China is slowly closing and not increasing as some imagine.

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## Tom-tom

UKBengali said:


> I am very confident that China's 6th generation fighter equivalent will be ready for service by mid 2030s.
> 
> They were already researching it before J-20 came into service in 2017 and there has been some information already leaked about its variable cycle engine. This is something it will share with the UK's Tempest fighter that is due for service in 2035 and I think the US 6th gen fighter will also use them.
> 
> The military tech gap between US and China is slowly closing and not increasing as some imagine.



Stick with Chinese for now acquire tots, become involved the Turkish fighter program.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Bilal9 said:


> There is a chance we might be getting Lockheed's F-16 Block 60.
> 
> But in all reality they will offer us this subsonic thing and call it a day (T-7 Red Hawk),


he's probably looking at apaches (blocked due to ACSA treaty) and F-18s on his trip to boeing, if we wanted
F-16s we would have taken the initiative long ago. imo we are not getting any fighters from US. 


i had a question though, to purchase any US-made fighter, BD will need to sign ACSA. Is it a requirement to be a signatory of ACSA to get non-lethal defence equipment from the US? are critical components such as engines and engine management computers classed as non-lethal hardware? Maybe we could get gripens to replace F-7 fleet in the future.

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## BlackViking

Bilal9 said:


> This is the perfect excuse India and Hasina have to go with the QUAD.


No vai bd will not join QUAD. But bd will sign GSOMIA with USA. Bd had some objections with a specific term of gsomia and bd asked for a revised deal. If USA approves then bd will sign GSOMIA and we might see some US techs in BAF.

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlackViking said:


> No vai bd will not QUAD. But bd will sign GSOMIA with USA. Bd had some objections with a specific term of gsomia and bd asked for a revised deal. If USA approves then bd will sign GSOMIA and we might see some US techs in BAF.


does it have to sign ACSA (which will give US logistical support to operate in Bay of Bengal) in addition to GSOMIA to get their tech?


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## F-6 enthusiast

maybe it its possible to get F-16s without being a signatory to ACSA 
egypt *recently* signed an MoU with US on ACSA. EAF operates a large fleet of F-16s it got from US. 

United States and Egypt Sign Military Logistics Cross Servicing Memorandum of Understanding - EDEX 2021 - The 2nd Edition of Egypt's Only International Defence Expo (egyptdefenceexpo.com) 

The question is, how important is BD to the US?

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Wow if US plans to keep f16s beyond 2030 it’s not going to be a bad choice for bd to get in it.
> joining quad will probably be part of the deal for a discount. I don’t know if we will take it.


USAF is hugely disappointed with the "fifth gen" good for nothing trash they operate. They intend to operate F-16s till mid-2040s.
They are considering getting Vipers and/or block-70/72s (currently only UAE operates).

BAF can benefit from ordering whatever variant USAF decides to operate but getting American single engine jets would mean we would also need to get J-10Cs to counter India.








The U.S. Air Force Is Considering Buying New F-16 Aircraft


More F-16 Vipers could be ordered together with F-15EXs, attritable aircraft and NGAD to replace older aircraft until enough F-35s are available. Almost




theaviationist.com













The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed


The U.S. Air Force’s chief of staff wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of aging F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated F-35 stealth fighters. But an affordable, lightweight fighter is exactly what the F-35 was first conceived to be.




www.forbes.com













US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet


Going back to the drawing board again could see the ageing F-16’s replaced in 2040, once they’re 60 years old.




www.trtworld.com

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> he's probably looking at apaches (blocked due to ACSA treaty) and F-18s on his trip to boeing, if we wanted
> F-16s we would have taken the initiative long ago. imo we are not getting any fighters from US.
> 
> 
> i had a question though, to purchase any US-made fighter, BD will need to sign ACSA. Is it a requirement to be a signatory of ACSA to get non-lethal defence equipment from the US? are critical components such as engines and engine management computers classed as non-lethal hardware? Maybe we could get gripens to replace F-7 fleet in the future.



AFAIK components such as engines and engine management computers that are used in Lethal platforms are classed as lethal hardware. It is all about context.

US has no problems selling us civilian container barge technology they use in the Mississippi river (push-boats) made by the Metal shark company (whose assault boats we also use in the Navy) but (latest) classified technology such as engine components and FADEC engine management technology (US thinks) can get into the hands of the Russians and Chinese and get reverse engineered. That will have a harder time getting sold.

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## BlackViking

F-6 enthusiast said:


> does it have to sign ACSA (which will give US logistical support to operate in Bay of Bengal) in addition to GSOMIA to get their tech?


Most prolly no. And afaik bd wont sign acsa

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> BAF can benefit from ordering whatever variant USAF decides to operate but getting American single engine jets would mean we would also need to get J-10Cs to counter India.


Not necessary. You’re assuming bd will ever use them offensively that’s to hit targets in india or operate in Indian airspace, I don’t see us being that bold even with a j10. If we acquire f16 it could also mean we’re choosing a side, China could be out of picture for us then.

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## F-6 enthusiast

looks like the venerable F-22 will be retired earlier than expected. 





next DEFSECA post will be : BAF Chief in US inspects used F-22 for MRCA.

in other news, DEFSECA reports that Air chief tested F-16V simulator. A shame we'll never get to see one flying in BAF colours because of politics.

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## F-6 enthusiast

F-6 enthusiast said:


> looks like the venerable F-22 will be retired earlier than expected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> next DEFSECA post will be : BAF Chief in US inspects used F-22 for MRCA.
> 
> in other news, DEFSECA reports that Air chief tested F-16V simulator. A shame we'll never get to see one flying in BAF colours because of politics.


i'd like to hear the arguments from the ppl saying : Muh BD needs 5th gen fighters ASAP ! no need for EFT! 
these things are like snowflakes lol F-35 costs ~ >28,000 $USD *PER HOUR TO FLY *stealth coating doesn't come cheap and is a pain to maintain. maybe after this tech matures, is refined and affordable BAF should look for 5th gen.

EDIT: F-35A costs $44K USD per hour (2018) but my point still stands. NAvy wants to get it down to 22K USD / hour LOL
Aircraft sustainment woes -- And is the Air Force paying for Navy F-35 costs? | Acquisition Talk


JPO Seeks to Slash F-35A Flight-Hour Costs - Air Force Magazine

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i'd like to hear the arguments from the ppl saying : Muh BD needs 5th gen fighters ASAP ! no need for EFT!
> these things are like snowflakes lol F-35 costs ~ >28,000 $USD *PER HOUR TO FLY *stealth coating doesn't come cheap and is a pain to maintain. maybe after this tech matures, is refined and affordable BAF should look for 5th gen.
> 
> EDIT: F-35A costs $44K USD per hour (2018) but my point still stands. NAvy wants to get it down to 22K USD / hour LOL
> Aircraft sustainment woes -- And is the Air Force paying for Navy F-35 costs? | Acquisition Talk
> 
> 
> JPO Seeks to Slash F-35A Flight-Hour Costs - Air Force Magazine



Long story short BD will probably realistically purchase EFT and either wait it out or buy J-10C or F-16 if they really give 2 dams.

Or another option they could do is get 5th gen fighters in the future since I think they wanted 5th gen platforms as BAF said for some odd reason.


I personally say just get EFT and if we can get J-10Cs or if lucky Gripens

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> I personally say just get EFT and if we can get J-10Cs or if lucky Gripens


16 EFT is a low risk option, it will remain relevant for quite some time. its not like MyAF can get anything to counter it , even Su-35 can't go head to head against EFT plus , i doubt they can afford Su-35 anyway. (they are getting Su-30s lol)
maybe get one more squadron of EFT and replace F-7 with J-10c.




SpaceMan18 said:


> Or another option they could do is get 5th gen fighters in the future since I think they wanted 5th gen platforms as BAF said for some odd reason.


lets wait and see what's available in 2030.
The president said that BD would consider acquiring 5th gen after 2030s in a speech so we are not in a hurry.



honestly i'm waiting for the budget details to be published, BAF may (hopefully) sign a contract this year or next year after BAF air show 2022.





(maybe there is hope for BAF)

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> looks like the venerable F-22 will be retired earlier than expected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> next DEFSECA post will be : BAF Chief in US inspects used F-22 for MRCA.
> 
> in other news, DEFSECA reports that Air chief tested F-16V simulator. A shame we'll never get to see one flying in BAF colours because of politics.


Sed They were supposed to dominate the battle space…. While grandfather projects like f15 and f16 still relevant to this day


F-6 enthusiast said:


> 16 EFT is a low risk option, it will remain relevant for quite some time. its not like MyAF can get anything to counter it , even Su-35 can't go head to head against EFT plus , i doubt they can afford Su-35 anyway. (they are getting Su-30s lol)
> maybe get one more squadron of EFT and replace F-7 with J-10c.
> 
> 
> 
> lets wait and see what's available in 2030.
> The president said that BD would consider acquiring 5th gen after 2030s in a speech so we are not in a hurry.
> 
> 
> 
> honestly i'm waiting for the budget details to be published, BAF may (hopefully) sign a contract this year or next year after BAF air show 2022.
> View attachment 745502
> 
> (maybe there is hope for BAF)


Man BAF chief inspects f16 manufacturing plant and already theres speculation about it. 
tbh I won’t be disappointed if we go with those either… a fleet built pure on those or half f16 half j10 is still way better than the competition and current inventory

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Sed They were supposed to dominate the battle space…. While grandfather projects like f15 and f16 still relevant to this day


meant to replace the f-15 lol. the F-16 and F-15 will be in service till 2050-2060s

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Man BAF chief inspects f16 manufacturing plant and already theres speculation about it.
> tbh I won’t be disappointed if we go with those either… a fleet built pure on those or half f16 half j10 is still way better than the competition and current inventory


J-10c have flown with the indigenous engine recently so i guess its open for export now and no blackmail from russia. F-16Vs have excellent radar (from the same family as that on F-35) . it would make BAF neutralise anything our adversaries can field.
not to say that T-3 EFT is anything less It is better than both in many ways , but its a double engine bird that has a higher maintenance cost. (I guess BAF wants longer range and maritime strike capability)

The budget session is scheduled for june 3rd i believe , maybe we'll see how much money is allocated for BAF. What do you think ?

EDIT: Rafales have better maritime strike capability than EFT due to new exocet missiles. combination of Storm Shadow and spear can neutralise S-400, i doubt US would sell us the entire weapons package. with F-16V and needs approval from congress (especially the senate )


How spear , Storm shadow and DASS can beat S-400

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> meant to replace the f-15 lol. the F-16 and F-15 will be in service till 2050-2060s


Fate loves irony 😅


F-6 enthusiast said:


> J-10c have flown with the indigenous engine recently so i guess its open for export now and no blackmail from russia. F-16Vs have excellent radar (from the same family as that on F-35) . it would make BAF neutralise anything our adversaries can field.
> not to say that T-3 EFT is anything less It is better than both in many ways , but its a double engine bird that has a higher maintenance cost. (I guess BAF wants longer range and maritime strike capability)
> 
> The budget session is scheduled for june 3rd i believe , maybe we'll see how much money is allocated for BAF. What do you think ?
> 
> EDIT: Rafales have better maritime strike capability than EFT due to new exocet missiles. combination of Storm Shadow and spear can neutralise S-400, i doubt US would sell us the entire weapons package. with F-16V and needs approval from congress (especially the senate )
> 
> 
> How spear , Storm shadow and DASS can beat S-400


Well they proposed 3,5 billion… that’s not enough fo 16 EFT
You need 4.2-4.5 billion for 16 EFT with basic necessities

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Well they proposed 3,5 billion… that’s not enough fo 16 EFT
> You need 4.2-4.5 billion for 16 EFT with basic necessities


kiptami , my guess is they will order 16EFT first with minimum Air to air and then pay for the full weapons package later as we get deliveries 2-3 years later .

or BAF is getting mix of old and new jets like greece but that goes against the tender.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> looks like the venerable F-22 will be retired earlier than expected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> next DEFSECA post will be : BAF Chief in US inspects used F-22 for MRCA.
> 
> in other news, DEFSECA reports that Air chief tested F-16V simulator. A shame we'll never get to see one flying in BAF colours because of politics.


F-16s will outlast F-22s. Repeat after me "Fifth generation fighters are gimmicky money pits".

Even the US failed to come up with functional fifth generation fighters and yet we need to believe that somehow China with their knack of stealing IP has somehow worked it out with J-31.

BAF should stick to 4++ gen.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> F-16s will outlast F-22s. Repeat after me "Fifth generation fighters are gimmicky money pits".


contractors made trillions out this gimmick. maybe if the costs go down, *BAF should get 1 squadron of fifth gen (in the distant future after costs have gone down) as air superiority and continue operating 4.5gen in tandem*. Even the US is going to operate F-15s till 2060 lol with F-35. lets not discount stealth entirely and operate limited no. of 5th gens.

ppl on this forum were like ''why is BAF buying EFT?'' better spend on 5th gen....4.5 gen outdated by 2030 (lol no) Myanmar will get su-57 (😆 )'' now they got egg on their face.


another problem with internal weapons bay in F-35 is that it could be too small for next gen missiles so, they would have to mounted on external pylons compromising stealth. Modular upgrades of electronics are very difficult on F-22 as there is limited space inside and any external mods would compromise stealth. The only way is to make smaller computers which drives up costs.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Not necessary. You’re assuming bd will ever use them offensively that’s to hit targets in india or operate in Indian airspace, I don’t see us being that bold even with a j10. If we acquire f16 it could also mean we’re choosing a side, China could be out of picture for us then.


I don't see BD ever initiating a war. However, in the event of India attacking first, we need to be proactive and takeout nearby Indian artillery assets before they can do any further damage.
This would involve detecting (using AEW&C) movement of Indian hardware positioning for further strikes on BD and carrying out artillery and precision air strikes on them.
Given our little landmass, we just cannot afford to sit around and wait for Indian fighter jets to enter our airspace as by then India would have overwhelmed us with artillery strikes.
No point in having fighter jets if they get pounded by enemy artillery while sitting on tarmacs.





Destranator said:


> No, this is assuming India would attack first which by default would be an existential threat. It is certainly possible that a right wing nut like Amit Shah becomes PM and tries to "teach Bangladeshis a lesson" to appease the head bobble crowd.
> 
> In the event of aggression by India, the entire Bangladesh Armed Forces especially BAF would need to go in beast mode and be ready to detect and neturalise any moving Indian military assets in neighbouring Indian states by utilising EW&C.
> 
> This is because we cannot afford to wait until India escalates further to full on artillery and air strikes on our tiny land mass. We will inevitably lose a lot of our assets due to Indian strikes so our best bet is to do as much damage to the Indian economy and military as possible.
> 
> If Bangladesh attains the military capabilities I have proposed in post #10,624, Indian state machinery would restrain their PM and avoid confrontation with BD at all costs as we would gurantee a retaliation strong enough to kill thousands of Indians and force the Indian economy into recession.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> I don't see BD ever initiating a war. However, in the event of India attacking first, we need to be proactive and takeout nearby Indian artillery assets before they can do any further damage.
> This would involve detecting (using AEW&C) movement of Indian hardware positioning for further strikes on BD and carrying out artillery and precision air strikes on them.
> Given our little landmass, we just cannot afford to sit around and wait for Indian fighter jets to enter our airspace as by then India would have overwhelmed us with artillery strikes.
> No point in having fighter jets if they get pounded by enemy artillery while sitting on tarmacs


ADIZ stretches over to Indian airspace so we can monitor their base traffic on the eastern bases. Unless they decide to launch from airstrips in central India, there won’t be any surprises. What matters more is if we will scramble at an appropriate time

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Fate loves irony 😅
> 
> Well they proposed 3,5 billion… that’s not enough fo 16 EFT
> You need 4.2-4.5 billion for 16 EFT with basic necessities



Koi F-15 koi EFT.

Koi Agartala, koi choukir tola?

Koi Abbas, koi Gab gas?

Koi Raj Rani, Koi..... 

If the EFT was going to be developed further, would the Boeing folks be sitting on their collective a$$es?

https://www.boeing.com/features/2021/04/usaf-inducts-first-f-15ex.page

But I get it, F-15EX will come with so many strings. EFT does not.

Pardon me getting a bit fruity...

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> ADIZ stretches over to Indian airspace so we can monitor their base traffic on the eastern bases. Unless they decide to launch from airstrips in central India, there won’t be any surprises. What matters more is if we will scramble at an appropriate time



Exactly. I'd love for us to adopt Israeli IDF Standard Operating Procedure, which is sophisticated and well-thought-out.

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## SpaceMan18

Bilal9 said:


> Exactly. I'd love for us to adopt Israeli IDF Standard Operating Procedure, which is sophisticated and well-thought-out.



Dam I wish lol , only a dream

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## F-6 enthusiast

Bilal9 said:


> Koi F-15 koi EFT.


tranche 4 EFT will be better than any other 4.5 gen fighter.

plus EFT has a smaller RCS and EW platform. helmet mounted display with sensor fusion, second only to the F-35 and a towed decoy as well.

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> tranche 4 EFT will be better than any other 4.5 gen fighter.
> 
> plus EFT has a smaller RCS and EW platform. helmet mounted display with sensor fusion, second only to the F-35 and a towed decoy as well.



OK Bhai - will take your word for it.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Bilal9 said:


> OK Bhai - will take your word for it.


not my word but this guy. 

sensor fusion on radar 





striker 2 helmet to display relevant info on the helmet display (integrated with night vision and radar targeting - a feature only found on the F-35 helmet) 





how the typhoon can beat the Indian S-400 system in SEAD missions using storm shadow, spear and DASS





another factor is that we will never get access to the full weapons package in F-15EX (congressional approval of house and senate required) . Airbus, MBDA , Leonardo etc will sell almost everything as long as we give them monies.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Koi F-15 koi EFT.
> 
> Koi Agartala, koi choukir tola?
> 
> Koi Abbas, koi Gab gas?
> 
> Koi Raj Rani, Koi.....
> 
> If the EFT was going to be developed further, would the Boeing folks be sitting on their collective a$$es?
> 
> https://www.boeing.com/features/2021/04/usaf-inducts-first-f-15ex.page
> 
> But I get it, F-15EX will come with so many strings. EFT does not.
> 
> Pardon me getting a bit fruity...


Bhai I would give Saint Martin to burma for f15ex 😝
We could then bomb it and take it back

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Bhai I would give Saint Martin to burma for f15ex 😝
> We could then bomb it and take it back





Dude... Visit St Martin once... After that you would never want to give it to them lol... It's literally Carribbean style paradise at your finger tips.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Dude... Visit St Martin once... After that you would never want to give it to them lol... It's literally Carribbean style paradise at your finger tips.


Second line nigga second line

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Second line nigga second line




Blegh.. screw that anyway.. doge 3 dollars by end of year..


Doge stronk.  💪

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Blegh.. screw that anyway.. doge 3 dollars by end of year..
> 
> 
> Doge stronk.  💪


Naah don’t think so mate. The maximum absurdity it can reach is 2.5 and that’s with US economy in shambles
I lost some in recent crashes but my bet is I’ll 20-50x long term 🥴😌

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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> Naah don’t think so mate. The maximum absurdity it can reach is 2.5 and that’s with US economy in shambles
> I lost some in recent crashes but my bet is I’ll 20-50x long term 🥴😌




3 dollar nibba, watch. After this... I'll bankroll BAF's MRCA program myself.. 😂

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> 3 dollar nibba, watch. After this... I'll bankroll BAF's MRCA program myself.. 😂


My god how much you put into it? 😂😂😂
I doubled and got out. Man I made a calculation and found out I would have been a millionaire if I started beginning of the year :/


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## DalalErMaNodi

Michael Corleone said:


> My god how much you put into it? 😂😂😂
> I doubled and got out. Man I made a calculation and found out I would have been a millionaire if I started beginning of the year :/




I was going to buy new gaming rig... Instead threw around 30% to 40% into doge and others into more Cardano and Eth.

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## leonblack08

This is me after the last two days...

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## SpaceMan18

leonblack08 said:


> This is me after the last two days...
> 
> View attachment 745792



Eh I wanna major in finance btw yeah I guess those bois have been making BANK from DogeCoins 

I was also wondering what if BAF made a crypto currency ?

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Eh I wanna major in finance btw yeah I guess those bois have been making BANK from DogeCoins
> 
> I was also wondering what if BAF made a crypto currency ?


What would that be? RideShare Coin? ImbecileCoin?


Michael Corleone said:


> Naah don’t think so mate. The maximum absurdity it can reach is 2.5 and that’s with US economy in shambles
> I lost some in recent crashes but my bet is I’ll 20-50x long term 🥴😌


Don't say such shit. I wanna be rich.

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## Michael Corleone

DalalErMaNodi said:


> I was going to buy new gaming rig... Instead threw around 30% to 40% into doge and others into more Cardano and Eth.


I took half my money and put it in xrp 😂 averaged down to 1.3 during the crash. Could have gone to 1.1 but missed it.
the rest are in vechain, cardano and monero
Oh and for meme coin that can actually beat doge…. Hoge. I got 550k on a autostake 😆


leonblack08 said:


> This is me after the last two days...
> 
> View attachment 745792


Pretty much. 🐸 Buying the dip


SpaceMan18 said:


> Eh I wanna major in finance btw yeah I guess those bois have been making BANK from DogeCoins
> 
> I was also wondering what if BAF made a crypto currency ?


It will take 20 years to collect 3 billion

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## DalalErMaNodi

Destranator said:


> Don't say such shit. I wanna be rich.




Bhai, don't listen to this Micheal nigga...


Doge to the Moon 🚀💪.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> I took half my money and put it in xrp 😂 averaged down to 1.3 during the crash. Could have gone to 1.1 but missed it.
> the rest are in vechain, cardano and monero
> Oh and for meme coin that can actually beat doge…. Hoge. I got 550k on a autostake 😆
> 
> Pretty much. 🐸 Buying the dip
> 
> It will take 20 years to collect 3 billion



Why Vechain?

Why XRP?

Check out Polygon.

Check out FEG.





__





FEGtoken – FEG Ecosystem







fegtoken.com

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Why Vechain?
> 
> Why XRP?
> 
> Check out Polygon.
> 
> Check out FEG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FEGtoken – FEG Ecosystem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fegtoken.com


Vechain because China approved and it should be adopted into countries supply chain. Good potential
Xrp because central banks and govt would be more willing to accept this instead of bitcoins and other decentralized currency. I think of xrp as swift replacement. 
Polygon is Indian and it pumped while the market wasn’t performing well and stayed up when bitcoin crash. I feelthere’s more chance of Indian whales manipulating it. 

Feg interesting hmm 🤔

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Bhai I would give Saint Martin to burma for f15ex 😝
> We could then bomb it and take it back



If we give the yanks a naval base in Chittagong they'll give us F-15EX , F-18. Heck, They might even offer F-35.
Myanmar is the soft underbelly of you know who.... operation cyclone 2.0
I know that's not gonna happen *i'm just kidding of course*. BD will never give a Naval base to yankee. *unless*😉

Myanmar is kept on a tight leash by its master so it won't attempt anything on St.martin unless there is a crisis in BD.

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## F-6 enthusiast

DalalErMaNodi said:


> Doge to the Moon 🚀💪.


too much faith in holud kukur

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Sed They were supposed to dominate the battle space…. While grandfather projects like f15 and f16 still relevant to this day
> 
> Man BAF chief inspects f16 manufacturing plant and already theres speculation about it.
> tbh I won’t be disappointed if we go with those either… a fleet built pure on those or half f16 half j10 is still way better than the competition and current inventory


F16 wont come without QUAD named strings attached

Best focus on J10C with TOT. self reliance should be focused on over shiny toys.

The Chinese are not interested in having BD in military alliance. Indian and US is. So unless BD wants to be formally part of Quad, its best to avoid US made weapons.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> If we give the yanks a naval base in Chittagong they'll give us F-15EX , F-18. Heck, They might even offer F-35.
> Myanmar is the soft underbelly of you know who.... operation cyclone 2.0
> I know that's not gonna happen *i'm just kidding of course*. BD will never give a Naval base to yankee. *unless*😉
> 
> Myanmar is kept on a tight leash by its master so it won't attempt anything on St.martin unless there is a crisis in BD.


We get pegged no matter what, we choose Americans Chinese fucks us, we choose China… USA fucks us we are fucked


Jobless Jack said:


> F16 wont come without QUAD named strings attached
> 
> Best focus on J10C with TOT. self reliance should be focused on over shiny toys.
> 
> The Chinese are not interested in having BD in military alliance. Indian and US is. So unless BD wants to be formally part of Quad, its best to avoid US made weapons.


Agreed. A j10c is comparable to if not better than a block 60 f16 which itself is not bad

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## Indos

I think Bangladesh position is lean toward USA now, this is why your FM doesnt have any worry when he said some strong words on China.

I believe your leaders have already been so piss off with China continue backing on Myanmar about Rohingya issue.

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## Jobless Jack

Indos said:


> I think Bangladesh position is lean toward USA now, this is why your FM doesnt have any worry when he said some strong words on China.
> 
> I believe your leaders have already been so piss off with China continue backing on Myanmar about Rohingya issue.


Ya but this is a lethal combination though.

Govt is very much in India and US corner.

Military is very much in Chinese corner. 

Someone has to go. .


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Ya but this is a lethal combination though.
> 
> Govt is very much in India and US corner.
> 
> Military is very much in Chinese corner.
> 
> Someone has to go. .



Looks like that old hag has to go lol


Michael Corleone said:


> We get pegged no matter what, we choose Americans Chinese fucks us, we choose China… USA fucks us we are fucked
> 
> Agreed. A j10c is comparable to if not better than a block 60 f16 which itself is not bad



Eh true , Bangladesh can't rely on anyone it's all about helping your self out first


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> Looks like that old hag has to go lol


Problem is not her. It is under the Leadership of Sheikh hasina that BD military has significantly improved their capabilities. 

The problem is the pro india lobby in BAL. It is this pro india faction that needs to go. 

Sheikh hasina is not the problem. As a matter of fact, i hope she stays in power atleast till 2029.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Michael Corleone said:


> We get pegged no matter what, we choose Americans Chinese fucks us, we choose China… USA fucks us we are fucked
> 
> Agreed. A j10c is comparable to if not better than a block 60 f16 which itself is not bad



Have you considered European alternative? That way Bangladesh can continue the claim of being neutral. Rafale & especially Gripen is a good choice for BAF.

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## SpaceMan18

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Have you considered European alternative? That way Bangladesh can continue the claim of being neutral. Rafale & especially Gripen is a good choice for BAF.



Ok let me answer your question ( although other members can also explain it better to you than me )

Rafale is not an option for us due to our relationship with France isn't that close and plus India uses the Rafale and we don't want the same systems as India we want something much more different. 

Gripen was considered by the BAF back then and they wanted old Gripens , but Sweden said no and BAF just quit getting it plus the Gripen uses an American engine which is a no no. 

So all we're left with is the EFT and the J-10C

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## Reashot Xigwin

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ok let me answer your question ( although other members can also explain it better to you than me )
> 
> Rafale is not an option for us due to our relationship with France isn't that close and plus India uses the Rafale and we don't want the same systems as India we want something much more different.
> 
> Gripen was considered by the BAF back then and they wanted old Gripens , but Sweden said no and BAF just quit getting it plus the Gripen uses an American engine which is a no no.
> 
> So all we're left with is the EFT and the J-10C



oh well that suck. Anyway good luck I hope whatever you decided on will be good.

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## Michael Corleone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Have you considered European alternative? That way Bangladesh can continue the claim of being neutral. Rafale & especially Gripen is a good choice for BAF.


If it were upto me 36 gripens would have been on the tarmac already

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/332012705024906

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/332012705024906



Lmao America already offered us such systems ever since the Royhinga Crisis went down , F-16s are spectacular but not for us due to strings from Uncle Sam. 

If we can get them without strings then maybe but too risky , J-10C I guess is the only good replacement for F-7s for now.


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## BlackViking

Jobless Jack said:


> F16 wont come without QUAD named strings attached
> 
> Best focus on J10C with TOT. self reliance should be focused on over shiny toys.
> 
> The Chinese are not interested in having BD in military alliance. Indian and US is. So unless BD wants to be formally part of Quad, its best to avoid US made weapons.


Nope. We can get whatever the hell we want (I meant F15/16/18) if we can pay. Joining quad is not necessary. Baf asked for F15 (refurbished) few years back but USA said No. But now they are ready to sell us anything. Market is competitive now. We can reject US offers if we want. We have options. So no point in attaching ridiculous strings cause we won't accept. Remember USA said "amra Bangladesh ke India er chokhe dekhi na" . They dont trust India and India dont trust them. They need a 3rd party in this region and Pakistan is not one of them. If we can play our cards right we can be benefited.

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Nope. We can get whatever the hell we want (I meant F15/16/18) if we can pay. Joining quad is not necessary. Baf asked for F15 (refurbished) few years back but USA said No. But now they are ready to sell us anything. Market is competitive now. We can reject US offers if we want. We have options. So no point in attaching ridiculous strings cause we won't accept. Remember USA said "amra Bangladesh ke India er chokhe dekhi na" . They dont trust India and India dont trust them. They need a 3rd party in this region and Pakistan is not one of them. If we can play our cards right we can be benefited.



If you want Bangladesh to become America's little pawn then we can get these F-15s/F-16s/F-18s etc , America *will* put strings on their equipment. These weapon systems are for geo political reasons 

We must try our best to stay away from American military equipment , Americans play dirty for sure and Pakistan and Turkey learned it the hard way


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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> If you want Bangladesh to become America's little pawn then we can get these F-15s/F-16s/F-18s etc , America *will* put strings on their equipment. These weapon systems are for geo political reasons
> 
> We must try our best to stay away from American military equipment , Americans play dirty for sure and Pakistan and Turkey learned it the hard way


Something American is coming buddy. Whether we like it or not but its definitely coming. May be in 2025 or 2030 but its definitely coming.

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## Anubis

BlackViking said:


> Something American is coming buddy. Whether we like it or not but its definitely coming. May be in 2025 or 2030 but its definitely coming.


So will we be refitting those American fighters to fire Chinese missiles?? Like we do our ships?

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Something American is coming buddy. Whether we like it or not but its definitely coming. May be in 2025 or 2030 but its definitely coming.



Why get American when we can get European and have less issues to deal with ? If something American is coming we are *FU*KED *cause China will make sure it BD pays for joining with the West.


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## Jobless Jack

BlackViking said:


> Nope. We can get whatever the hell we want (I meant F15/16/18) if we can pay. Joining quad is not necessary. Baf asked for F15 (refurbished) few years back but USA said No. But now they are ready to sell us anything. Market is competitive now. We can reject US offers if we want. We have options. So no point in attaching ridiculous strings cause we won't accept. Remember USA said "amra Bangladesh ke India er chokhe dekhi na" . They dont trust India and India dont trust them. They need a 3rd party in this region and Pakistan is not one of them. If we can play our cards right we can be benefited.


No..

US sells equipment to get influence. 

BD is definitely American weapons . probably in 1-2 years. 

But it is coming after signing the dotted line to join quad. 


Your BD govt has no cards to begin with. Not against USA.


Anubis said:


> So will we be refitting those American fighters to fire Chinese missiles?? Like we do our ships?


Throw in Russian pilot BD has a deadly cocktail

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## BlackViking

Anubis said:


> So will we be refitting those American fighters to fire Chinese missiles?? Like we do our ships?


Lol no. If something from USA comes then it will come with full package. Dont worry


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## BlackViking

Jobless Jack said:


> No..
> 
> US sells equipment to get influence.
> 
> BD is definitely American weapons . probably in 1-2 years.
> 
> But it is coming after signing the dotted line to join quad.
> 
> 
> Your BD govt has no cards to begin with. Not against USA.


There was no offer to join quad in the first place. They are gonna continue with the original 4 members. And to be honest Bangladesh is not that significant geopolitically as we are thinking. Trust me on this when I say WE ARE NOT JOINING QUAD. at least not in next 5 years. And bud we are not playing against USA. Its impossible. It's just bd govt is not liking the on growing Chinese influence. Specially after the way Chinese ambassador warned us. So they will try to balance things. Why do you think our foreign minister is continuously asking USA to invest in our infrastructures. Bd doesn't want to be dependent on China anymore. We need options. We are not going to put all the eggs in one basket. Same goes for military purchase. This is the reason we are talking about western jets in stead of su30s...but if buying US made weapons mean joining in a military squad then it's not happening. Bd wants stability.

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> Why get American when we can get European and have less issues to deal with ? If something American is coming we are *FU*KED *cause China will make sure it BD pays for joining with the West.


Bro even if we buy eft ,meteor is not coming any time soon. We will need amraams. So we need USA. If we were to buy gripens we would need USA. And if buying weapons from another source makes China super angry like you said then I would say we should avoid China as much as we can from now on. Chinese means business. So it's not gonna be problem. Like I said earlier bd had problems with a specific gsomia term. It was related to weapons tech sharing bla bla bla. So China had objection. Then bd asked for a revised term. If USA approves then China wont have any problem if we procure weapons from USA.

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## SpaceMan18

BlackViking said:


> Bro even if we buy eft ,meteor is not coming any time soon. We will need amraams. So we need USA. If we were to buy gripens we would need USA. And if buying weapons from another source makes China super angry like you said then I would say we should avoid China as much as we can from now on. Chinese means business. So it's not gonna be problem. Like I said earlier bd had problems with a specific gsomia term. It was related to weapons tech sharing bla bla bla. So China had objection. Then bd asked for a revised term. If USA approves then China wont have any problem if we procure weapons from USA.



Well either way Bangladesh has to be careful , cause it better know U.S strings and back stabbings are coming it's way. We can't use certain weapons to deter India I guess

China will be concerned if we do get U.S weapons cause even though the Chinese care about money or business it knows American influence is coming and it doesn't like that.


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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Well either way Bangladesh has to be careful , cause it better know U.S strings and back stabbings are coming it's way. We can't use certain weapons to deter India I guess
> 
> China will be concerned if we do get U.S weapons cause even though the Chinese care about money or business it knows American influence is coming and it doesn't like that.


You know what, I am sick and tired of worrying about strings.
Thailand, Indonesia, Egypt, etc. get along with China just fine despite operating F-16s. If there comes a time when the US refuses to support, we will get some hardware urgently from China.
The US may have greater stakes in India but they will not let India simply steamroll BD unless BD attacks first.
US does not want us in no stupid QUAD.

Just order the damn fighters for fcuk's sake!

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## Avicenna

Makes sense for the US to offer the F-16 to Bangladesh.









New F-16s Will All Be Sold In A Single Base Model Configuration With A Standardized Price


Lockheed Martin says the new sales concept will save time and money, both in the contracting process and when it comes to actually producing the jets.




www.thedrive.com






Lockheed Martin says that it plans to "commoditize" its F-16 Viper fighter jet line by offering jets in a single standardized configuration, based on the latest Block 70/72 variant, with a standard base price tag. The goal here is to streamline things for both the manufacturer and potential customers, especially foreign buyers, and it follows a massive U.S. Air Force-managed contract for the production of Vipers for export over the next decade.

_FlightGlobal_ was first to report on Lockheed Martin's new plans for its F-16 product line on Sept. 4, 2020. The Air Force had awarded the company an indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity (IDIQ) contract, valued at up to $62 billion over 10 years, to build at least 90 Block 70/72 Vipers – 66 for Taiwan and 24 for Morocco – for Foreign Military Sales (FMS) customers on Aug. 12, 2020.


"The development of the pricing, and the back and forth with the country on the pricing, and then the actual pricing when we deliver it to them in the form of an offer and acceptance letter, that takes a very long time," J.R. McDonald, the Vice President of Business Development for Lockheed Martin's Integrated Fighter Group, told _FlightGlobal_. “And, it takes a lot of money to develop those individual contracts for each individual country.”

"It’s a way to streamline contracting, make the pricing as transparent as possible in an [Foreign Military Sales] environment," he continued, referring to the new plane for a standardized base F-16. “Everybody knows what the baseline is.”






LOCKHEED MARTIN
An artist's conception of a Block 70/72 F-16 Viper.
The new standard Viper configuration will have a default set of "avionics, mission systems, an active electronically scanned array [AESA] radar, electronic warfare suite, Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System and an engine," according to _FlightGlobal_, though it is not clear what those specific systems will be. Lockheed Martin has already been pushing toward standardizing the Viper line with its Block 70/72 F-16s and the related F-16V upgrade package that brings older jets up to a similar configuration.
These versions, outgrowths of the F-16IN Super Viper variant developed for India, all feature the AN/APG-83 Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR), an AESA type from Northrop Grumman that you can read about in more detail in this recent _War Zone_ piece, as well as other common avionics and other mission systems. Lockheed Martin presently offers Block 70 F-16s with General Electric F110 engines and Block 72 variants with Pratt & Whitney F100s.





LOCKHEED MARTIN
A page from a Lockheed Martin brochure from 2016 regarding its pitch at the time to sell Block 70 F-16C/D Vipers to that country that specifically mentions that configuration becoming the new baseline variant.




LOCKHEED MARTIN
Another slide from the same brochure highlighting some of the mission systems found on Block 70 Vipers, including the AN/APG-83 AESA radar.
McDonald told _FlightGlobal_ that the baseline configuration will have the lowest price point, but did not say what that might be. Like when one buys a car, Lockheed Martin will continue to offer other features and functionality for customers who want specific capabilities and are willing to pay for them. However, these additions will be handled under separate contracts, effectively as modifications to base variant aircraft.
The country-specific version of the Viper that Lockheed Martin is presently pitching to India, which it is marketing as the F-21, is a prime example of what the company could offer on top of the base variant. The F-21, compared to Block 70/72 types, has a completely different cockpit arrangement with a single large flat panel multi-function display, a probe-and-drogue refueling system that fits inside a modified conformal fuel tank, and an enlarged dorsal spine, seen on other F-16 variants, capable of holding various mission systems, among other features. You can read more about this advanced Viper in detail in this past _War Zone_ piece.

The U.S. Air Force's System Program Office first proposed the idea of a standardized Viper to Lockheed Martin as a way to help simplify FMS cases by creating a universal price list that a potential customer could review, according to _FlightGlobal_. The company also said that it expects virtually all future F-16 sales to go through the U.S. government-managed FMS process via contracting vehicles such as the multi-billion dollar IDIQ deal it received in August. The F-21 pitch to India will remain an unrelated direct sale, no doubt in part due to the Indian government's requirement for companies competing in the tender to supply 110 new fighter jets to the Indian Air Force to offer significant industrial cooperation packages as part of their offers.
Beyond helping with the contracting process, a standardized F-16 would also help simplify production, supply chain management, and sustainment. Back in 2017, Lockheed Martin announced that it would move its Viper production line to South Carolina from Texas as part of a restructuring at the latter facility to focus more on building F-35 Joint Strike Fighters. The South Carolina site was smaller, but could also concentrate more on F-16 work, amid what appeared to be at the time dwindling demand for the older jets.


Even after building more than 4,600 F-16s of all types, and with some 2,280 still in service worldwide, Lockheed Martin is optimistic that there will be more new Viper sales on the horizon. In addition to the Block 70/72 jets it is building for Taiwan and Morocco, it is also producing additional examples for Bahrain and Bulgaria. Indonesia, among other potential customers, has also considered new Vipers to meet its future fighter jet needs. 
“Those are in the end of service life and countries around the world are having to find themselves in a situation where they need to replace them,” McDonald told _FlightGlobal_, specifically referring to fleets of older Soviet-era combat jets, such as MiG-21s and MiG-23/27s, as well as early MiG-29s, that remain in service around the world. In addition, the outlet noted that some countries that still fly these and other Soviet-designed types have faced challenges in modernizing them or otherwise extending their service life due to U.S. sanctions on Russian aviation and defense companies. 
Operators of these jets, many of which are former Soviet republics, as well as other countries that have been in its sphere of influence during the Cold War, are a major potential market for U.S. firms looking to sell new advanced fourth-generation fighter jets. Many of them, including some that are now NATO members, are looking to modernize their fleets, but are very unlikely to be able to secure approval to buy the F-35, opening the door for the F-16. 
All told, the F-16's future already seems very bright still and Lockheed Martin's new effort to simplify production and sales can only help keep the Viper front and center for countries looking for new fighter jets for the foreseeable future.

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## bdslph

F16 blk 70/72 while we are dancing around yeahhh we got it 

First of all its the most expensive and sophisticated F16 ever built 
Second of all why do you think we remove the except israel part 
thirds we must officially be slave of usa there is will be a lot of string attach 
Fourth dont forget also the Euro Fighter & Apache 

GO TO CHINA RUSSIA non of this required

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> You know what, I am sick and tired of worrying about strings.
> Thailand, Indonesia, Egypt, etc. get along with China just fine despite operating F-16s. If there comes a time when the US refuses to support, we will get some hardware urgently from China.
> The US may have greater stakes in India but they will not let India simply steamroll BD unless BD attacks first.
> US does not want us in no stupid QUAD.
> 
> Just order the damn fighters for fcuk's sake!



Well I guess screw the J-10C , F-16s will replace the dam F-7s and EFT will replace our Mig-29s. 

I mean I have a very odd feeling Bangladesh may be getting some kind of American weapon system for sure , cause like why would the dam Air Chief visit the Pentagon let alone sit in an F-16 simulator ? 

F-16s for the win I guess

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## F-6 enthusiast

i hope we acquire Block 72 or EFT or whatever that is being looked at as soon as possible.
MyAF will get su-30s (which will be serviced in India)
MyAF chief in ''raptor of the east'' Su-30MKI

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> F-16s for the win I guess


why that sick feeling ? 
nothing wrong with a little american pie (f-16) eh ?




It may be high in calories, but that's exactly what BAF needs. 
i guess you're worried about sanctions. well, Bd is not the kind of country that gets sanctioned. 



SpaceMan18 said:


> Well I guess screw the J-10C , F-16s will replace the dam F-7s and EFT will replace our Mig-29s.


we'll have a formidable AF if that is where we go. If Bd is to get into a conflict it is most likely going to be against Myanmar. Can the J-10c be relied upon ?

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## Jobless Jack

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i hope we acquire Block 72 or EFT or whatever that is being looked at as soon as possible.
> MyAF will get su-30s (which will be serviced in India)
> MyAF chief in ''raptor of the east'' Su-30MKI
> 
> View attachment 747854


Actually BAF ' s main threat is IAF. 

With so much internal trouble no Burman will want a conflict with BD. No matter how many sukhios MKI they buy.

Get J-10 or EFT or girppen. Even better get tot and start producing inhouse. 


F-16's even by some miracle USA does not put conditions now, they will do so when they want to. Why risk? F-16's are nice shiny toys but rather see the job get done.


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Actually BAF ' s main threat is IAF.
> 
> With so much internal trouble no Burman will want a conflict with BD. No matter how many sukhios MKI they buy.
> 
> Get J-10 or EFT or girppen. Even better get tot and start producing inhouse.
> 
> 
> F-16's even by some miracle USA does not put conditions now, they will do so when they want to. Why risk? F-16's are nice shiny toys but rather see the job get done.



I mean if we get J-10 we can sorta use it against Myanmar cause China wouldn't care that much , but they also can care if they really care about defending Myanmar

So either way we're fked


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> I mean if we get J-10 we can sorta use it against Myanmar cause China wouldn't care that much , but they also can care if they really care about defending Myanmar
> 
> So either way we're fked


BD wont go war with burma..... Burmans are too busy with internal conflicts ... they dont want anything with bd. Chinese wont let them go to war with BD either .

BAF future adversary is IAF.


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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/889140764996960

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## F-6 enthusiast

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/889140764996960


well, well, well this is going to rustle some jimmies

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## Avicenna

Nice video.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Nice video.




Don't forget that the Eurofighter was built with a 5th gen engine core and so the current 9:1 T/W ratio engine can be brought up all the way to 11.8:1 with 30% wet thrust uplift.

UK would be happy to develop this if a customer, or group of customers, is willing to pay the development costs.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> Nice video.


DCS is making a fully fledged module (with clickable cockpit) based on the luftwaffe EFT (early versions). If BAF gets EFT, i will get that module, currently i own the Mig-29.
i'll try to get it when it goes on sale, OCt-Nov period
work in progress 





DCS: Eurofighter being developed by new third party with impressive pedigree – Stormbirds

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/889140764996960



Hmmm , they mentioned about Bangladesh wanting to establish a space program  🛰 probably satellite manufacturing and idk about space launch vehicles aka rockets 

Btw , yeah very interesting visit and I feel like as we get closer to 2022 BD Airshow we will start to get more interesting news about the MRCA.

Definitely a western jet as stated , not sure if we will get something like the F-16 for our F-7 replacement but it's possible

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## BlackViking

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/360739031170472/posts/889140764996960


He talked about mrca program. And gsomia and acsa 🤔🤔

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> why that sick feeling ?
> nothing wrong with a little american pie (f-16) eh ?
> View attachment 747859
> 
> It may be high in calories, but that's exactly what BAF needs.
> i guess you're worried about sanctions. well, Bd is not the kind of country that gets sanctioned.
> 
> 
> we'll have a formidable AF if that is where we go. If Bd is to get into a conflict it is most likely going to be against Myanmar. Can the J-10c be relied upon ?




I do not understand these bizzare postulation that weapons we buy we are not free to use against adversaries as we choose 

I look at it this way.... in a conflict would IAF avoid hitting lets say the F16 if we had them or would MAF avoid targeting the J10 if we had them.... the answer is no....

In exactly that same way BAF will fight with whatever is in its arsenal against the enemy. No kill switch will be activated by jet manufacturers, it is simply not a realistic proposition and has never been done and never will be done. If any jet manufacturer does it if it is technically possible, it will instantly destroy their entire market. Not one ally will ever trust them again and they will never get a new buyer.

BAF purchases will be to counter IAF and MAF.... it is illogical that we will partition BAF resources for these foes.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> I do not understand these bizzare postulation that weapons we buy we are not free to use against adversaries as we choose
> 
> I look at it this way.... in a conflict would IAF avoid hitting lets say the F16 if we had them or would MAF avoid targeting the J10 if we had them.... the answer is no....
> 
> In exactly that same way BAF will fight with whatever is in its arsenal against the enemy. No kill switch will be activated by jet manufacturers, it is simply not a realistic proposition and has never been done and never will be done. If any jet manufacturer does it if it is technically possible, it will instantly destroy their entire market. Not one ally will ever trust them again and they will never get a new buyer.
> 
> BAF purchases will be to counter IAF and MAF.... it is illogical that we will partition BAF resources for these foes.





I do not think it is just to do with "kill switches" as such but more due to compromise in terms of your enemy being given data on how to counter your system and no further supplies in wartime.


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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> I do not think it is just to do with "kill switches" as such but more due to compromise in terms of your enemy being given data on how to counter your system and no further supplies in wartime.


denying spares in times of an emergency is one tactic, but BD is not the kind of country that usually gets sanctioned. 
Question is , can the PRC be relied upon when it comes to Burma ? actions speak louder than words.

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> denying spares in times of an emergency is one tactic, but BD is not the kind of country that usually gets sanctioned.
> Question is , can the PRC be relied upon when it comes to Burma ? actions speak louder than words.




PRC is for India.
West for Myanmar.

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> PRC is for India.
> West for Myanmar.


Burma is the immedeate threat and india is the long term threat. Either way , we will need to build up defensive capacity to deal with both.Conventional warfare for the Burmese and Asymmetric warfare for our dadas . Let's deal with Burma first. Acquiring American weaponry is surely going to raise some eyebrows in PRC , but we will have to do whatever necessary to defend our interests.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I do not think it is just to do with "kill switches" as such but more due to compromise in terms of your enemy being given data on how to counter your system and no further supplies in wartime.




Well thats the same as a kill switch. If you let down one customer every customer is going to assume you will double cross them and never trust you again. So I do not think that is going to happen.

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Well thats the same as a kill switch. If you let down one customer every customer is going to assume you will double cross them and never trust you again. So I do not think that is going to happen.





Not sure it is the same thing as the one being double-crossed would never know for sure.

A "kill switch" is obvious but not when you are being defeated with better tactics and aircraft knowledge as you cannot be sure how your enemy got this.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Not sure it is the same thing as the one being double-crossed would never know for sure.
> 
> A "kill switch" is obvious but not when you are being defeated with better tactics and aircraft knowledge as you cannot be sure how your enemy got this.




I suppose. In this scenario you can never be completely sure. Only solution produce your own war machines otherwise you are at the mercy of others interference.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> I suppose. In this scenario you can never be completely sure. Only solution produce your own war machines otherwise you are at the mercy of others interference.



We aren't even industrialized yet , any weapons if we do make it will have 90-99% of parts from a foreign nation.

BD has to rely on foreign nations for weapons while it has to kickstart it's own indigenous military industrial complex.

1 :Start with development of small arms like pistols and rifles , and on combat drones
2: Then move onto radars and radios
3: Eventually move onto bigger systems like Trainer aircraft and military satellites
4: Finally now more complex systems like rockets both military and commercial like space rockets

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## Michael Corleone

Love how the narratives changing rn that air chief visited f16 plant

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Love how the narratives changing rn that air chief visited f16 plant





cant blame us , we are desperate for any good or seemingly good news. its been 7 years

hopefully it is worth the wait.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> cant blame us , we are desperate for any good or seemingly good news. its been 7 years
> 
> hopefully it is worth the wait.



BAF ends up by a Cessna with a .50 cal as the MRCA after 7 years

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## PDF

Low flight night training? on J-variant?


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## Indos

UKBengali said:


> PRC is for India.
> West for Myanmar.



Men you are rich, you need two different fighters to counter each nation LOL

I still dont understand BD members here that think they cannot use Western fighters jet to go against India.......

No way you will attack India, and if India attack BD there will be condemnation from the West to India.

BD is not West enemy

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## Avicenna

PDF said:


> View attachment 749541
> 
> 
> Low flight night training? on J-variant?



Maybe something like this?

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## Destranator

Indos said:


> Men you are rich, you need two different fighters to counter each nation LOL
> 
> I still dont understand BD members here that think they cannot use Western fighters jet to go against India.......
> 
> No way you will attack India, and if India attack BD there will be condemnation from the West to India.
> 
> BD is not West enemy


You are correct in that we would not strike first, however we are concerned the West will only offer lip service against India like they are doing with Palestine.
They might stop selling supplies.

It does not make sense for the West to risk losing the Indian market from an economic perspective.

The call for West/China diversification of fighter jets is out of necessity and not luxury.

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> You are correct in that we would not strike first, however we are concerned the West will only offer lip service against India like they are doing with Palestine.
> They might stop selling supplies.
> 
> It does not make sense for the West to risk losing the Indian market from an economic perspective.
> 
> The call for West/China diversification of fighter jets is out of necessity and not luxury.



Invading BD is not Western interest. Western will try to make any Indian government to stop that invasion (which I see ridiculous by seeing densely populated BD) by putting sanction to india or at least still supply BD with equipment.

Why ? Because Indian is democratic, one admin can be replaced by other admin while Western has interest with India in long term basis and also the West cannot be seen as against Muslim. They will try to avoid Muslim go to China camp since Muslim countries will surely be against India possible attack to BD.

Unless if BD does the attack which is impossible


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## Destranator

Indos said:


> Invading BD is not Western interest. Western will try to make any Indian government to stop that invasion (which I see ridiculous by seeing densely populated BD) by putting sanction to india or at least still supply BD with equipment.
> 
> Why ? Because Indian is democratic, one admin can be replaced by other admin while Western has interest with India in long term basis and also the West cannot be seen as against Muslim. They will try to avoid Muslim go to China camp since Muslim countries will surely be against India possible attack to BD.
> 
> Unless if BD does the attack which is impossible


Western corporate interests trump everything else. The US will never sanction India unless they are directly under attack.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Western corporate interests trump everything else. The US will never sanction India unless they are directly under attack.





BD cannot rely on anyone else but itself for its own defence. 

India is the real and only realistic threat to BD sovereignty and so it must build up most of its forces to counter them. Myanmar is less of a threat but more pressing now due to Rohingya issue and its own constant instability.

Anyway BD is no longer a dirt-poor 3rd world country. It has a growing economy large enough to sustain 2 or maybe 3 types of fighter platforms over the next 1-2 decades. I would go in order Western(not USA) - Chinese - Turkey(if their TF-X project is somewhat successful)

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## Jobless Jack

Indos said:


> Invading BD is not Western interest. Western will try to make any Indian government to stop that invasion (which I see ridiculous by seeing densely populated BD) by putting sanction to india or at least still supply BD with equipment.
> 
> Why ? Because Indian is democratic, one admin can be replaced by other admin while Western has interest with India in long term basis and also the West cannot be seen as against Muslim. They will try to avoid Muslim go to China camp since Muslim countries will surely be against India possible attack to BD.
> 
> Unless if BD does the attack which is impossible



- West will not invade BD or bargain with India, supply weapons or provide diplomatic support, let alone impose sanctions on India in favor of BD. BD is a trading partner of the west. If you really want to paint a picture here. BD needs the west more than the west needs BD. Its a mutually beneficial economic relationship. One which BD needs for its economic survival and solvency. The west , while does benefit from this relationship, does not need the relationship with BD to survive economically. 

- However, West needs India. No way west will jeopardize their relationship with India in the favor of BD. The Indian economic market alone is lucrative to the west compared to the BD market. There is also the military as well. India is a nuclear power. West is not stupid. They will not impose sanction's on a nuclear power in the favor of a small country. 

- If the West can support Israel against Palestine despite condemnation from Muslim world. Then West will definitely never lift a finger in favor of BD to appease the Muslim world. This is why the Chinese and the Russians are now talking against Israel. To take the Muslim world in their corner. BBC and CNN can drum as much as they want about Uighur's but end of the day the Chinese have been successful in their effort to bring the Muslim world firmly in their camp.

- A neutral BD is a direct threat to Indian control in the Indian NE. India needs to use BD territory for logistics to supply its forces in the NE. if BD stay neutral or becomes pro china , that is disaster for India. India will never tolerate this. Never. Also a mid- scale conflict with BD will give the BJP massive propaganda value because this will appease their voters who hate Muslims and BD is a much low risk conflict option compared to Pakistan and China. Indian military will feel confident they will be able to control the size and scope of the conflict. Therefore a small - mid scale conflict between BD and India is likely within this decade. The recent Chinese diplomatic victory in BD only highlights how much BD has slipped into Chinese orbit. How insecure the Indian's are becoming due to this . Perfect opportunity for Modi and Co to score some propaganda victory before 2024 election's.

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## Indos

Jobless Jack said:


> - West will not invade BD or bargain with India, supply weapons or provide diplomatic support, let alone impose sanctions on India in favor of BD. BD is a trading partner of the west. If you really want to paint a picture here. BD needs the west more than the west needs BD. Its a mutually beneficial economic relationship. One which BD needs for its economic survival and solvency. The west , while does benefit from this relationship, does not need the relationship with BD to survive economically.
> 
> - However, West needs India. No way west will jeopardize their relationship with India in the favor of BD. The Indian economic market alone is lucrative to the west compared to the BD market. There is also the military as well. India is a nuclear power. West is not stupid. They will not impose sanction's on a nuclear power in the favor of a small country.
> 
> - If the West can support Israel against Palestine despite condemnation from Muslim world. Then West will definitely never lift a finger in favor of BD to appease the Muslim world. This is why the Chinese and the Russians are now talking against Israel. To take the Muslim world in their corner. BBC and CNN can drum as much as they want about Uighur's but end of the day the Chinese have been successful in their effort to bring the Muslim world firmly in their camp.
> 
> - A neutral BD is a direct threat to Indian control in the Indian NE. India needs to use BD territory for logistics to supply its forces in the NE. if BD stay neutral or becomes pro china , that is disaster for India. India will never tolerate this. Never. Also a mid- scale conflict with BD will give the BJP massive propaganda value because this will appease their voters who hate Muslims and BD is a much low risk conflict option compared to Pakistan and China. Indian military will feel confident they will be able to control the size and scope of the conflict. Therefore a small - mid scale conflict between BD and India is likely within this decade. The recent Chinese diplomatic victory in BD only highlights how much BD has slipped into Chinese orbit. How insecure the Indian's are becoming due to this . Perfect opportunity for Modi and Co to score some propaganda victory before 2024 election's.



See the contex of previous conversation to understand my comment. I dont say USA or Europe countries desire to invade BD, but whether they will allow India invade BD or not.....

Israel is a different context and it is only USA that support Israel, while the rest of European are in the side of Muslim countries with 2 state solution based on pre 1967 border. 

USA support on Israel is due to their Evangelical belief. This cannot be intervened, even due to geopolitical needs to get Muslim support, similar like how Muslim countries are against USA in Palestine-Israel conflict. 

No, they will not support India if India attack BD (which is absurd logic unless you have huge oil and gas/nickle/or huge and vertile land which is still empty).

I believe they (USA) dont want to make Muslim countries side with China further. They think Palestinian-Israeli conflict is the limit already that they cannot avoid due to religious belief.

Actually the case in Myanmar could be seen as example. Myanmar is nobody, Rohingya is also no body, but they still support Rohingya and BD position regardless


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## Jobless Jack

Indos said:


> See the contex of previous conversation to understand my comment. I dont say USA or Europe countries desire to invade BD, but whether they will allow India invade BD or not.....
> 
> Israel is a different context and it is only USA that support Israel, while the rest of European are in the side of Muslim countries with 2 state solution based on pre 1967 border.
> 
> USA support on Israel is due to their Evangelical belief. This cannot be intervened, even due to geopolitical needs to get Muslim support, similar like how Muslim countries are against USA in Palestine-Israel conflict.
> 
> No, they will not support India if India attack BD (which is absurd logic unless you have huge oil and gas/nickle/or huge and vertile land which is still empty).
> 
> I believe they (USA) dont want to make Muslim countries side with China further. They think Palestinian-Israeli conflict is the limit already that they cannot avoid due to religious belief.
> 
> Actually the case in Myanmar could be seen as example. Myanmar is nobody, Rohingya is also no body, but they still support Rohingya and BD position regardless


I did not say that they will support/not support. It will be a lip service similar to a condemnation. Nothing substantial will come from the west. They will simply remain neutral and not get involved in a India BD conflict. 

For Muslims Jerusalem is a bigger issue. Rohingya issue is a tragedy but again the west played little more than lip service to protect them.* If you want an example here you are. In a India - BD conflict the west will play a similar role that it has played to protect the Rohingya. Nothing will be done to deter India from the action and but lip service will be given to appease the Muslim world.* *Muslim leaders will condemn but do very little. *

FYI the west does not need every Muslim countries. GCC is firmly in their pocket. NATO ally turkey controls the Bosporus. As long as these countries have good terms with the west, they don't give two hoots about the rest of the Muslims world. What the West wants from the Muslim world they already have. The don't need anything more from the Muslim world. The Uighur issue is played up to discredit china's reputation and to help western allies in the Muslim world. For example put a dent in the Pakistan - China relationship. Which helps India ( Western ally) far more than the west.

India is far more important to the GCC and the West than BD. Therefore BD must choose her allies carefully and should become self sufficient in defense . 

Troubling times are ahead for BD. Very , very few realize this .

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## Indos

Jobless Jack said:


> I did not say that they will support/not support. It will be a lip service similar to a condemnation. Nothing substantial will come from the west. They will simply remain neutral and not get involved in a India BD conflict.
> 
> For Muslims Jerusalem is a bigger issue. Rohingya issue is a tragedy but again the west played little more than lip service to protect them.* If you want an example here you are. In a India - BD conflict the west will play a similar role that it has played to protect the Rohingya. Nothing will be done to deter India from the action and but lip service will be given to appease the Muslim world.* *Muslim leaders will condemn but do very little. *
> 
> FYI the west does not need every Muslim countries. GCC is firmly in their pocket. NATO ally turkey controls the Bosporus. As long as these countries have good terms with the west, they don't give two hoots about the rest of the Muslims world. What the West wants from the Muslim world they already have. The don't need anything more from the Muslim world. The Uighur issue is played up to discredit china's reputation and to help western allies in the Muslim world. For example put a dent in the Pakistan - China relationship. Which helps India ( Western ally) far more than the west.
> 
> India is far more important to the GCC and the West than BD. Therefore BD must choose her allies carefully and should become self sufficient in defense .
> 
> Troubling times are ahead for BD. Very , very few realize this .



Sufficient in defense is of course a very ideal condition, but at least BD needs to start picking defense equipment from Muslim countries as Muslim countries are the true friend of BD while China can backstab like what happen in Rohingya crisis already.

I think BD leaders have already understood this, and this is why some Turkish defense equipment have already been bought which I support.

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## Jobless Jack

Indos said:


> Sufficient in defense is of course a very ideal condition, but at least BD needs to start picking defense equipment from Muslim countries as Muslim countries are the true friend of BD while China can backstab like what happen in Rohingya crisis already.
> 
> I think BD leaders have already understood this, and this is why some Turkish defense equipment have already been bought which I support.


Agreed but the sudden preference for Turkish equipment is not because of the worry that China will Backstab BD. Rather this came so as not too appear too pro-China and risk the wrath of India. India has already involved the USA in BD relationship and BD does not want to have bad relationship with west. India will use every leverage to ruin the relationship between BD and west if BD does not dance according to Indian tune. Hence you see BAF chief visiting USA. 

China has been a reliable ally to BD in terms of defense. BD is not becoming anti china. BD is perfectly where the Chinese want them to be. Neutral. It is India who is becoming insecure and poking the west to influence BD.

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## mb444

Jobless Jack said:


> Agreed but the sudden preference for Turkish equipment is not because of the worry that China will Backstab BD. Rather this came so as not too appear too pro-China and risk the wrath of India. India has already involved the USA in BD relationship and BD does not want to have bad relationship with west. India will use every leverage to ruin the relationship between BD and west if BD does not dance according to Indian tune. Hence you see BAF chief visiting USA.
> 
> China has been a reliable ally to BD in terms of defense. BD is not becoming anti china. BD is perfectly where the Chinese want them to be. Neutral. It is India who is becoming insecure and poking the west to influence BD.




US interest in BD i do not believe is directly on behest of india. Think about it this way, why would US rely on india to take on china when it can not influence nations around it independently. You want strong allies not weak dependents.

The point is india is weak. US diplomats on record have stated they used to view BD with Indian lenses but that is no longer the case. I believe this, BD has its unique selling points and US is engaging us for its benefit not indias.

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## Jobless Jack

mb444 said:


> US interest in BD i do not believe is directly on behest of india. Think about it this way, why would US rely on india to take on china when it can not influence nations around it independently. You want strong allies not weak dependents.
> 
> The point is india is weak. US diplomats on record have stated they used to view BD with Indian lenses but that is no longer the case. I believe this, BD has its unique selling points and US is engaging us for its benefit not indias.


Nope. 

Think about it this way. Why is India part of Quad ? To take on China and make sure China does not take south tibet ( arunachal pradesh). Unless BD co-operates with India in this matter , India will lose Arunachal pradesh . 

US interest is now Indian interest . US gains nothing from BD. Unless India gains something. 

What ever USA can gain from BD it can get else where. Unless it involves BD giving official recognition to Israel. That will be a diplomatic boost for USA. Other than that BD has no selling point that can benefit USA in anyway. Unless it helps India.


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## UKBengali

Jobless Jack said:


> Nope.
> 
> Think about it this way. Why is India part of Quad ? To take on China and make sure China does not take south tibet ( arunachal pradesh). Unless BD co-operates with India in this matter , India will lose Arunachal pradesh .
> 
> US interest is now Indian interest . US gains nothing from BD. Unless India gains something.
> 
> What ever USA can gain from BD it can get else where. Unless it involves BD giving official recognition to Israel. That will be a diplomatic boost for USA. Other than that BD has no selling point that can benefit USA in anyway. Unless it helps India.






I do not think that India has any realistic chance of BD helping in any way in conflict with China, like allowing it to move its military forces through its land, waters or airspace.

The most it can expect is BD being neutral and that is exactly what BD's intention is all along and China would be happy with that.

While US would prefer BD to assist India in conflict with China, it will not try to corner BD as the last thing it wants is another large Muslim country like Pakistan joining the Chinese camp. US will be somewhat satisfied with a neutral BD.

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## Jobless Jack

UKBengali said:


> I do not think that India has any realistic chance of BD helping in any way in conflict with China, like allowing it to move its military forces through its land, waters or airspace.
> 
> The most it can expect is BD being neutral and that is exactly what BD's intention is all along and China would be happy with that.
> 
> While US would prefer BD to assist India in conflict with China, it will not try to corner BD as the last thing it wants is another large Muslim country like Pakistan joining the Chinese camp. US will be somewhat satisfied with a neutral BD.


USA has no interest here to corner BD. On the contrary if BD , as the 3rd largest Muslim country in the world recognizes Israel is actually a diplomatic victory for Israel and USA. It is India that is poking US to interfere in the Indo-BD-China relationship. India knows that BD may not help, Hence they are hoping if US provides incentives to BD it may help to get the logistics treaty signed.

What you said makes perfect sense. But let is not forget that Delhi is ruled nut cases now . BJP just for the propaganda value of it would love to start a mid-low level conflict over this logistics issue with BD. There is a chance India will attempt to pull off something similar to what Russia did in Crimea .

This will a) ease this logistics issue that Indian military faces in the NE when war with China happens.
B) It will create massive nationalistic sentiment in the BJP vote base. This will help BJP win the election in 2024 as a conflict with Muslim BD helps BJP project their Hindu strongman image to their Hindutva vote base.

Let us also not forget that BJP tried similar tactics against Pakistan in 2019 to stir up nationalistic feeling in India but got a bloody nose in return from Pakistan. However BJP was successful in stirring up the nationalistic feeling in India, which helped them win in 2019. It is certainly reasonable to believe that BJP will try the same tactics in the lead up to the 2024 election but this time with BD as Indian military will be much more confident against BD compared to say Pakistan or China.

If using USA influence BD signs the logistics deal. Great. BJP wins. If BD does not sign , then BJP also wins for the reasons I mentioned above.


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## UKBengali

Jobless Jack said:


> USA has no interest here to corner BD. On the contrary if BD , as the 3rd largest Muslim country in the world recognizes Israel is actually a diplomatic victory for Israel and USA. It is India that is poking US to interfere in the Indo-BD-China relationship. India knows that BD may not help, Hence they are hoping if US provides incentives to BD it may help to get the logistics treaty signed.
> 
> What you said makes perfect sense. But let is not forget that Delhi is ruled nut cases now . BJP just for the propaganda value of it would love to start a mid-low level conflict over this logistics issue with BD. There is a chance India will attempt to pull off something similar to what Russia did in Crimea .
> 
> This will a) ease this logistics issue that Indian military faces in the NE when war with China happens.
> B) It will create massive nationalistic sentiment in the BJP vote base. This will help BJP win the election in 2024 as a conflict with Muslim BD helps BJP project their Hindu strongman image to their Hindutva vote base.
> 
> Let us also not forget that BJP tried similar tactics against Pakistan in 2019 to stir up nationalistic feeling in India but got a bloody nose in return from Pakistan. However BJP was successful in stirring up the nationalistic feeling in India, which helped them win in 2019. It is certainly reasonable to believe that BJP will try the same tactics in the lead up to the 2024 election but this time with BD as Indian military will be much more confident against BD compared to say Pakistan or China.
> 
> If using USA influence BD signs the logistics deal. Great. BJP wins. If BD does not sign , then BJP also wins for the reasons I mentioned above.




I am not sure that even Modi would be that stupid as that is one sure way to get BD to quickly militarise heavily and become antagonistic to India. AL themselves for their very survival would have to shout anti-India slogans 24/7 just to remain in power.

In India remember that the PM is only one of the power-making centres and he would come under heavy pressure from other players not to unnecessarily turn BD into a hostile state.

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## Jobless Jack

UKBengali said:


> I am not sure that even Modi would be that stupid as that is one sure way to get BD to quickly militarise heavily and become antagonistic to India. AL themselves for their very survival would have to shout anti-India slogans 24/7 just to remain in power.
> 
> In India remember that the PM is only one of the power-making centres and he would come under heavy pressure from other players not to unnecessarily turn BD into a hostile state.


Well i just made a hypothesis. I dont have crystal ball here.

BJP has done a lot of stupid things that we thought never possible for any government in the world, Yet here we are. After covid missanagement, stirring up nationalism is the Only way BJp can win in 2024.

My theory is that BD will recognise Israel officially in the coming months in the hope USA backs off and stops influencing BD- India relations. Also to please the GCC and appear progressive.



Lets see. Its a theory.


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Well i just made a hypothesis. I dont have crystal ball here.
> 
> BJP has done a lot of stupid things that we thought never possible for any government in the world, Yet here we are. After covid missanagement, stirring up nationalism is the Only way BJp can win in 2024.
> 
> My theory is that BD will recognise Israel officially in the coming months in the hope USA backs off and stops influencing BD- India relations. Also to please the GCC and appear progressive.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see. Its a theory.



If BD recognizes Israel officially , there will be many protests and burning.

We would also be sure that BD is getting a western fighter jet soon maybe

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> If BD recognizes Israel officially , there will be many protests and burning.
> 
> We would also be sure that BD is getting a western fighter jet soon maybe


Then maybe thats why BAF chief went to USA visit. Select a potential fighter when BD recognise israel offically. 

If BD recognises Israel officially it will be a massive boost for USA and Israel as BD will be the biggest muslim country to recognise Israel officially( till date)

Expect Uncle Sam to reward BD generously.

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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Then maybe thats why BAF chief went to USA visit. Select a potential fighter when BD recognise israel offically.
> 
> If BD recognises Israel officially it will be a massive boost for USA and Israel as BD will be the biggest muslim country to recognise Israeli officially.
> 
> Expect Uncle Sam to reward BD generously.



Expect Uncle Sam to try to make BD it's pawn more like , we need dam Typoons not F-16s yet since we don't want to deal with Uncle Sam as much.

If we get any major American weapon like jets I am very worried about BDs future

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## F-6 enthusiast

New Air chief








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399711722491899905

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## Rahil Ahmed

F-6 enthusiast said:


> New air chief
> 
> View attachment 749825
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399711722491899905


Is this good news ? I don’t really think it can get any worse

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> Expect Uncle Sam to try to make BD it's pawn more like , we need dam Typoons not F-16s yet since we don't want to deal with Uncle Sam as much.
> 
> If we get any major American weapon like jets I am very worried about BDs future


See most BD posters dont realise something. EU platforms are also influenced by USA. Not in terms of Equipment rather diplomacy. 

No way EU will sell BD Typhoons if USA objects to it.

BD will get the same diplomatic result wheather its purchasing f-16 or typhoon.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Rahil Ahmed said:


> Is this good news ? I don’t really think it can get any worse


We'll have to wait until BAS 2022 i guess. I am confident contracts will be signed and the process of replacing F-7s will start soon maybe ~2025

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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> See most BD posters dont realise something. EU platforms are also influenced by USA. Not in terms of Equipment rather diplomacy.
> 
> No way EU will sell BD Typhoons if USA objects to it.
> 
> BD will get the same diplomatic result wheather its purchasing f-16 or typhoon.



Ehhh maybe , BD has a neutral relation with the U.S and yes the Americans can push to make sure BD doesn't get the EFT but honestly it doesn't care as much. 

BD can still sign the GSOMIA and ACSA and not get any American equipment but rather European and or maybe Turkish weapons instead like the EFT and T129 ATAK

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## UKBengali

Jobless Jack said:


> See most BD posters dont realise something. EU platforms are also influenced by USA. Not in terms of Equipment rather diplomacy.
> 
> No way EU will sell BD Typhoons if USA objects to it.
> 
> BD will get the same diplomatic result wheather its purchasing f-16 or typhoon.







There is far less US influence if the weapon system is brought from EU if the US "objects" as you say.

USA will have to apply enormous pressure to get the European 4 not to sell say EFT in the first place and that would come at some cost in quid-pro quo payback later on. They will not get involved in things like maintenance and weapons sales outside conflict for a European fighter sold to BD.

Even the UK does not listen to everything that the US says as some may think, as it has not gone along with the US on Iran nuclear deal and relationship with WHO as an example.

With the US sourced weapons you are at the mercy of every whim they have like buying more missiles/bombs, maintenance etc. at any time.

The West is not a totally monolithic block as some may imagine.

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ehhh maybe , BD has a neutral relation with the U.S and yes the Americans can push to make sure BD doesn't get the EFT but honestly it doesn't care as much.
> 
> BD can still sign the GSOMIA and ACSA and not get any American equipment but rather European and or maybe Turkish weapons instead like the EFT and T129 ATAK


Uncle SAM is fishing here for a official recognision for Israel. India is just using US to influence the BD foreign policy for India's own benefit.

Uncle Sam's interest in BD will dissapear if BD officially recognises Israel and start diplomatic relations with Israel. 

Turkish platform is good choice.

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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Uncle SAM is fishing here for a official recognision for Israel. India is just using US to influence the BD foreign policy for India's own benefit.
> 
> Uncle Sam's interest in BD will dissapear if BD officially recognises Israel and start diplomatic relations with Israel.
> 
> Turkish platform is good choice.



Wait how would US interests disappear is BD recognizes Israel lol ? US has interests in BD due to rise of Chinese influence. 

But yeah lets for now stick to Turkish/European military systems , cause that will help in the long run

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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> Wait how would US interests disappear is BD recognizes Israel lol ? US has interests in BD due to rise of Chinese influence.
> 
> But yeah lets for now stick to Turkish/European military systems , cause that will help in the long run


Well the pressing concern for Uncle Sam is to get israel recognised by as many muslim countries as possible as quickly as possible.

Its not like the chinese are crossing LAC yet.

Its about appeasement see. If BD recognises israel today. USA would be pleased and reward BD. Would be much less willing to influence BD foreign policy even at indian request. Its about give and take. UsA has no need for BD ports or airbases or roads to take on China. India does.

Either way. If BD wants to continue to trade with west/USA and GCC, officially recognising ISrael is must and it must be soon. Else BD will have to find new economic partners.


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Well the pressing concern for Uncle Sam is to get israel recognised by as many muslim countries as possible as quickly as possible.
> 
> Its not like the chinese are crossing LAC yet.
> 
> Its about appeasement see. If BD recognises israel today. USA would be pleased and reward BD. Would be much less willing to influence BD foreign policy even at indian request. Its about give and take. UsA has no need for BD ports or airbases or roads to take on China. India does.
> 
> Either way. If BD wants to continue to trade with west/USA and GCC, officially recognising ISrael is must and it must be soon. Else BD will have to find new economic partners.



BD has to deal with both Indian and American influence , America needs BD to make sure the Chinese aren't encircling India. But yeah BD has recognized Israel a long time ago lol


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## Jobless Jack

SpaceMan18 said:


> BD has to deal with both Indian and American influence , America needs BD to make sure the Chinese aren't encircling India. But yeah BD has recognized Israel a long time ago lol


no.

US does not need BD for China. 

BD officially has not recognized Israel. This is important for diplomatic purpose. This is the only thing USA wants. Other than this BD has nothing that USA does not have or cannot acquire with a simple snap of fingers.


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## PDF




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## mb444

Jobless Jack said:


> Nope.
> 
> Think about it this way. Why is India part of Quad ? To take on China and make sure China does not take south tibet ( arunachal pradesh). Unless BD co-operates with India in this matter , India will lose Arunachal pradesh .
> 
> US interest is now Indian interest . US gains nothing from BD. Unless India gains something.
> 
> What ever USA can gain from BD it can get else where. Unless it involves BD giving official recognition to Israel. That will be a diplomatic boost for USA. Other than that BD has no selling point that can benefit USA in anyway.  Unless it helps India.



Very interesting perspective.

keeping china down is obviously the objective but I am not certain that US and India is fully aligned. I think there is room to maneuver for BD purely because there is no way of arresting chinas rise merely delaying it.

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## mb444

Jobless Jack said:


> See most BD posters dont realise something. EU platforms are also influenced by USA. Not in terms of Equipment rather diplomacy.
> 
> No way EU will sell BD Typhoons if USA objects to it.
> 
> BD will get the same diplomatic result wheather its purchasing f-16 or typhoon.




No, US will not have the ability to block sale of EFT to BD, it has some US component same as the F35 has UK component but not enough to have any say on the matter.


EFT better than F16 and only the former would give BAF any leverage over IAF for reasons discussed many times over. However I am all for F16 as replacement for F7s 

16 EFT as our high and 32 F16 as our lows complemented by the YAKs and BGI is not fantastic but much better than what we have now.

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## SpaceMan18

mb444 said:


> No, US will not have the ability to block sale of EFT to BD, it has some US component same as the F35 has UK component but not enough to have any say on the matter.
> 
> 
> EFT better than F16 and only the former would give BAF any leverage over IAF for reasons discussed many times over. However I am all for F16 as replacement for F7s
> 
> 16 EFT as our high and 32 F16 as our lows complemented by the YAKs and BGI is not fantastic but much better than what we have now.



If we get J-10C then China can also go against us if we try to use it against their puppet Myanmar maybe , but they also realize that this wouldn't be a good idea to threaten BD like that since BD can align with the U.S block. 

But yeah F-16s are good enough , if Uncle Sam block certain parts then lets use another nation to get the parts maybe


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> No, US will not have the ability to block sale of EFT to BD, it has some US component same as the F35 has UK component but not enough to have any say on the matter.
> 
> 
> EFT better than F16 and only the former would give BAF any leverage over IAF for reasons discussed many times over. However I am all for F16 as replacement for F7s
> 
> 16 EFT as our high and 32 F16 as our lows complemented by the YAKs and BGI is not fantastic but much better than what we have now.



Eh.....if you show me 16 Eurofighter and 32 F-16s in BAF service, I will personally deliver sweets to you.

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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> Eh.....if you show me 16 Eurofighter and 32 F-16s in BAF service, I will personally deliver sweets to you.


insha'Allah.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Eh.....if you show me 16 Eurofighter and 32 F-16s in BAF service, I will personally deliver sweets to you.



I am an eternal optimist.....

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> insha'Allah.



Allah : Here's some Cessnas with AMMRAMS have fun


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## Jobless Jack

mb444 said:


> Very interesting perspective.
> 
> keeping china down is obviously the objective but I am not certain that US and India is fully aligned. *I think there is room to maneuver for BD *purely because there is no way of arresting chinas rise merely delaying it.


*Yes there is ! Just recognizing Israel as a country and allowing Israel to open a consulate in Dhaka will solve 80% of BD's current foreign policy dilemma. *

West and GCC will be happy and Shower their blessing on BD. Chinese wont be unhappy. True there is friction growing between the Israel and China/Russia. But the Chinese wont mind if BD maintains/gains economic relationship with that country. It is no threat to China in anyway if BD and Israel recognize each other. 

Even the Indians will not want to go to offensive against BD (as much as Modi G may want it) because BD will have significantly improved their image in the eyes of the West , Israel and GCC. Israel will also be very pleased as the 3rd largest Muslim country, the largest Muslim country to date has recognized them. No way will Israel allow India to go to offensive against BD if BD does Israel this diplomatic favor which is officially recognizing Israel as a nation.


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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> *Yes there is ! Just recognizing Israel as a country and allowing Israel to open a consulate in Dhaka will solve 80% of BD's current foreign policy dilemma. *
> 
> West and GCC will be happy and Shower their blessing on BD. Chinese wont be unhappy. True there is friction growing between the Israel and China/Russia. But the Chinese wont mind if BD maintains/gains economic relationship with that country. It is no threat to China in anyway if BD and Israel recognize each other.
> 
> Even the Indians will not want to go to offensive against BD (as much as Modi G may want it) because BD will have significantly improved their image in the eyes of the West , Israel and GCC. Israel will also be very pleased as the 3rd largest Muslim country, the largest Muslim country to date has recognized them. No way will Israel allow India to go to offensive against BD if BD does Israel this diplomatic favor which is officially recognizing Israel as a nation.


Recognizing Israel can come not without two state solution. We cannot betray people in need, we have to remember once we were also in an apartheid state

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Recognizing Israel can come not with two state solution. We cannot betray people in need, we have to remember once we were also in an apartheid state


Agreed 

But International community is in No Mood for that. As the middle east is making peace with Israel so will the rest of the Muslim world. Some countries like Pakistan Turkey Iran, who have strong diplomatic leverage will be able to resist the chance to some extent as they are not as reliant on Middle east. As a matter of fact Tukey is very much in bed with Israel. 

But a country like BD whose main economic drivers are Middle east, West/USA, China. Expect BD to recognize Israel as BD cannot afford to be boycotted by 2/3 of their economic partner. The entire BD economy will crash.

So what you said is morally correct . But not practical.


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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> Agreed
> 
> But International community is in No Mood for that. As the middle east is making peace with Israel so will the rest of the Muslim world. Some countries like Pakistan Turkey Iran, who have strong diplomatic leverage will be able to resist the chance to some extent as they are not as reliant on Middle east. As a matter of fact Tukey is very much in bed with Israel.
> 
> But a country like BD whose main economic drivers are Middle east, West/USA, China. Expect BD to recognize Israel as BD cannot afford to be boycotted by 2/3 of their economic partner. The entire BD economy will crash.
> 
> So what you said is morally correct . But not practical.


As long as we’re not staunchly opposed to the Jewish state and avoid the matter it’s no big dead. 
calling turkey to be in bed with Israel is hilarious. In Middle East they’re the only nation who are protesting Israel’s behavior
But eventually when the Arabs get in bed with Israel, the rest will follow. Islamic hypocrisy I call it

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> As long as we’re not staunchly opposed to the Jewish state and avoid the matter it’s no big dead.
> calling turkey to be in bed with Israel is hilarious. In Middle East they’re the only nation who are protesting Israel’s behavior
> But eventually when the Arabs get in bed with Israel, the rest will follow. Islamic hypocrisy I call it


Turks are. Rather split it.

50% staunchly oppose Israel. 50% support or wont mind gkving recognition.

Arabs are already well on Their way to recognise israel. By 2024 every GCC country will have atleast a Israeli consulate. Bd will follow suit or Bd will be labelled anti semitic. That label will not take you very far in the world today..

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## Avicenna

Interesting video.

Enjoy!

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## ghost250

*Bangladesh Air Force has signed a deal with German Aircraft Company Grob for 24 basic Trainer Aircraft
Sources :BAF chief*

from 13.30 to 14.00





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=171832421574452

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## Jobless Jack

ghost250 said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force has signed a deal with German Aircraft Company Grob for 24 basic Trainer Aircraft
> Sources :BAF chief*
> 
> from 13.30 to 14.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=171832421574452


Honestly how many trainers does this airforce need ?

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## mb444

ghost250 said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force has signed a deal with German Aircraft Company Grob for 24 basic Trainer Aircraft
> Sources :BAF chief*
> 
> from 13.30 to 14.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=171832421574452



They should attempt to atleast assemble them in BD.....

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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> Honestly how many trainers does this airforce need ?


Unfortunately the trash PT-6's need to be replaced urgently before more pilots die.

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## SpaceMan18

ghost250 said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force has signed a deal with German Aircraft Company Grob for 24 basic Trainer Aircraft
> Sources :BAF chief*
> 
> from 13.30 to 14.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=171832421574452



I saw BAF and German and got excited.....but then I also saw it said trainer 


LIKE FK DAMM HOW MANY TRAINERS DOES THIS DAM AIR FORCE NEED ?

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> I saw BAF and German and got excited.....but then I also saw it said trainer
> 
> 
> LIKE FK DAMM HOW MANY TRAINERS DOES THIS DAM AIR FORCE NEED ?


I'm actually quite glad they didn't choose trash to replace trash. Also note that of all the available trainers, German trainers have not been chosen by accident.

As for fighters, from what I have heard, 1 sqd EFT was almost a done deal. However, intense US lobbying might sway the govt towards putting heavy MRCA procurement on hold and instead getting single engine F-16V's to replace some of the current trash.
I support prioritising single engine fighter procurement.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> I'm actually quite glad they didn't choose trash to replace trash. Also note that of all the available trainers, German trainers have not been chosen by accident.
> 
> As for fighters, from what I have heard, 1 sqd EFT was almost a done deal. However, intense US lobbying might sway the govt towards putting heavy MRCA procurement on hold and instead getting single engine F-16V's to replace some of the current trash.
> I support prioritising single engine fighter procurement.




What you say makes sense as regards US lobbying.

BD exports to US are near 7 billion US dollars a year and the US has massive influence over lending agencies like ADB, JICA etc.

Getting the F-16V would not be that bad as BAF would be free to use it against MAF and that is the main reason for buying that fighter anyway. It is a little expensive to buy but really cheap to operate and maintain and so should not put too much of a strain on BAF budget.

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> I saw BAF and German and got excited.....but then I also saw it said trainer
> 
> 
> LIKE FK DAMM HOW MANY TRAINERS DOES THIS DAM AIR FORCE NEED ?


BAF showing off its collection of trainers






anyway i'm actually *glad* we got something good to replace PT-6

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## Avicenna

ghost250 said:


> *Bangladesh Air Force has signed a deal with German Aircraft Company Grob for 24 basic Trainer Aircraft
> Sources :BAF chief*
> 
> from 13.30 to 14.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=171832421574452



I really like this guy.

Good luck to him and I hope he enjoys his retirement.

I think history will show he did good for BAF.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> I really like this guy.
> 
> Good luck to him and I hope he enjoys his retirement.
> 
> I think history will show he did good for BAF.


i thought this is very significant coming from a high level official







maybe we'll make an ijt and later a single engine fighter with , *some* level of ToT of course.

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## Bilal9

I hope they got the turboprop equipped (G120TP) ones (with retractable undercarriage).

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i thought this is very significant coming from a high level official
> 
> View attachment 752180
> 
> 
> maybe we'll make an ijt and later a single engine fighter with , *some* level of ToT of course.



The most important thing I got out of this is his words which tells me he understands the big picture.

He also seemed very sincere.

I hope the actions he took during his time bear fruit for the BAF.

24 Grobs are a good start.

This is really the start of a new era for BAF.

InshAllah!!!!

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> This is really the start of a new era for BAF.


I don't think that 5 years ago ppl could imagine that BAF would consider EFT, Rafale, F-18 etc
we (not me specifically, I only joined last year) were discussing about getting used Mig-29smt , Mig-35 etc.
We have come very far. InshAllah, I hope the economy keeps its momentum and we can get bigger and better things.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> BAF showing off its collection of trainers
> View attachment 752134
> 
> 
> anyway i'm actually *glad* we got something good to replace PT-6




BAF : Imma get some trainers 

DJ Khaled : Another one 

BAF: Ok some trainers then 

DJ Khaled : Another one

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## Anubis

Jobless Jack said:


> Honestly how many trainers does this airforce need ?


If The US went to war with BD and agreed only to fight with trainers we would beat them without breaking a sweat...nobody has trained as much as we have.

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## The Ronin

Destranator said:


> Unfortunately the trash PT-6's need to be replaced urgently before more pilots die.



You might see it for another 15 years cause they procured 23 more since 2010.



Destranator said:


> As for fighters, from what I have heard, 1 sqd EFT was almost a done deal.



Source? Did the deal get cancelled or what?



UKBengali said:


> Getting the F-16V would not be that bad as BAF would be free to use it against MAF



If you're talking about invasion/counter-attack then i doubt US will allow it considering Pakistan's case.

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## SpaceMan18

The Ronin said:


> You might see it for another 15 years cause they procured 23 more since 2010.
> 
> 
> 
> Source? Did the deal get cancelled or what?
> 
> 
> 
> If you're talking about invasion/counter-attack then i doubt US will allow it considering Pakistan's case.



That's why getting American equipment sucks , can't use it freely


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## Jobless Jack

Destranator said:


> Unfortunately the trash PT-6's need to be replaced urgently before more pilots die.


Right ok

But what was the puroose of buy russian and chinese trainers?

This is the third trainer squadron now..


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## Destranator

Jobless Jack said:


> Right ok
> 
> But what was the puroose of buy russian and chinese trainers?
> 
> This is the third trainer squadron now..


Those were IJTs and AJTs.

K-8W's replaced T-37s and augmented L-39s.

Yak-130s are the first ever AJT + Light attack aircraft of BAF.

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> You might see it for another 15 years cause they procured 23 more since 2010.
> 
> 
> 
> Source? Did the deal get cancelled or what?
> 
> 
> 
> If you're talking about invasion/counter-attack then i doubt US will allow it considering Pakistan's case.


The PT-6 procurement did not go through from what I know.
Regarding source on EFT being almost confirmed, it was a personal source (so take it with a grain of salt).
EFT will always be a potential contender for heavy MRCA however the government won't sign multiple multi billion dollar fighter deals in a single FY. Due to intense US lobbying, the govt might address the single engine fighter crisis first with F-16s. I would have preferred Gripens due to lower operational costs, greater ToT and less strings but will take F-16V's any day.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> I would have preferred Gripens due to lower operational costs, greater ToT and less strings but will take F-16V's any day.






Anything that can make MAF pilots sh*t in their pants gets my thumbs up.

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## The Ronin

Destranator said:


> Unfortunately the trash PT-6's need to be replaced urgently before more pilots die.



Your wish has been granted. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/DTB2.O/posts/897563377488032








__ https://www.facebook.com/DTB2.O/posts/896429257601444

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## Rahil Ahmed

Great we'll be churning out propeller aircraft by the year 2060


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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> I would have preferred Gripens due to lower operational costs, greater ToT and less strings but will take F-16V's any day.


if we replace entire fighter fleet with gripen , we can get ToT. Initial batch can be bought from sweden and later batches ( for expansion of the number of squadrons ) can be assembled in BD.

Sweden is a neutral country , so i guess it aligns with our foreign policy . US wouldn't mind giving us the engine for gripen since they offered F-16V/18E to us.
ppl over here talking about sanctions and arms embargo on BD , bruh please remember that BD is not one of those countries that gets sanctioned.


If BAF goes for EFT because of longer range (required for maritime strike) , i wouldn't mind. Latest variants can go toe to toe with F-15EX.
Just that we will save some money and pehaps get ToT for gripens.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if we replace entire fighter fleet with gripen , we can get ToT. Initial batch can be bought from sweden and later batches ( for expansion of the number of squadrons ) can be assembled in BD.
> 
> Sweden is a neutral country , so i guess it aligns with our foreign policy . US wouldn't mind giving us the engine for gripen since they offered F-16V/18E to us.
> ppl over here talking about sanctions and arms embargo on BD , bruh please remember that BD is not one of those countries that gets sanctioned.
> 
> 
> If BAF goes for EFT because of longer range (required for maritime strike) , i wouldn't mind. Latest variants can go toe to toe with F-15EX.
> Just that we will save some money and pehaps get ToT for gripens.



True honestly lol , EFT + Gripen would a dream though

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## Bilal9

SpaceMan18 said:


> BAF : Imma get some trainers
> 
> DJ Khaled : Another one
> 
> BAF: Ok some trainers then
> 
> DJ Khaled : Another one








*New Air Chief Air Vice Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan takes over BAF command*

*Staff Correspondent
12th June, 2021 06:52:17 PM

*







The new Chief of Air Staff Air Vice Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan (left) shakes hand with his predecessor Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat at Air Headquarters



The newly-appointed Chief of Air Staff Air Vice Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan took over the command of Bangladesh Air Force on Saturday.

He succeeded the outgoing Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat. A taking over ceremony was held at Air Headquarters.

Newly appointed Chief of Air Staff Air Vice Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan took over the command of Bangladesh Air Force from the outgoing Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat at a ceremony at Chief of Air Staff’s secretariat.


Principal Staff Officers along with other senior officers of Air Headquarters were present during the occasion.

Earlier in the morning, the outgoing Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat visited Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman memorial museum and paid the homage to the Father of the Nation by placing a wreath at his portrait in front of the Bangabandhu Memorial Museum.

After laying the wreath, outgoing Chief of Air Staff stood in solemn silence for some time in front of the portrait as a part of the respect to Bangabandhu and after this, he also signed the visitors’ book.

Besides, outgoing Chief of Air Staff paid homage to the members of Armed Forces who were martyred during the war of liberation in 1971 by laying floral wreaths at Shikha Anirban. After this, he also signed the visitors’ book.

Before departing Air Headquarters, outgoing Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat was presented a guard of honour by a smartly turned out BAF Contingent. He inspected the guard and took salute. He also planted a sapling at Air Headquarters premises on the occasion. Finally, the outgoing Chief of Air Staff left Air Headquarters and his colleagues said goodbye to him.

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## F-6 enthusiast

chill video. US strategic airlift in 1960s. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea

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## ghost250

__ https://www.facebook.com/DTB2.O/photos/a.365552387355803/898238707420499

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> but will take F-16V's any day.


i honestly want F-16V just because it will shut up the ''BD SLavvvvvv'' types and prevent them from making the ''Grapes are sour'' argument they do with the Rafale. They're very depserate for F-16V , if a ''non-frontline'' and ''Slavvvv'' nation such as BD gets them , it will add salt to the wound. 

Block 70 and EFT T-4 will remain relevant till 2060-2070 so we'll be covered. Maybe get 1 squadron of 5th gen and supplement it with capable 4.5 gen fighters just like the US is going to do.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> chill video. US strategic airlift in 1960s. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea



MF that's my favorite video from Mauzer lmao , I love the music in that video


F-6 enthusiast said:


> i honestly want F-16V just because it will shut up the ''BD SLavvvvvv'' types and prevent them from making the ''Grapes are sour'' argument they do with the Rafale. They're very depserate for F-16V , if a ''non-frontline'' and ''Slavvvv'' nation such as BD gets them , it will add salt to the wound.
> 
> Block 70 and EFT T-4 will remain relevant till 2060-2070 so we'll be covered. Maybe get 1 squadron of 5th gen and supplement it with capable 4.5 gen fighters just like the US is going to do.



MUH HUH BD SLAVVEEEEE CAUSE MUH HUH INDIA COLONY , these are the statements coming from someone who's own nation has a lesser GDP and GDP per capita than BD lmao.

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> MF that's my favorite video from Mauzer lmao


I also like these 





















if we get F-16s, i hope they add CFTs.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Got the BAF Mig-29 skin on DCS. The R-27 is a formidable weapon , problem is that the radar needs to continuously track the hostile and the evasive manuevers are limited by the gimbal angle limit. Just learning how to fly this thing and need a better stick and throttle.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Got the BAF Mig-29 skin on DCS. The R-27 is a formidable weapon , problem is that the radar needs to continuously track the hostile and the evasive manuevers are limited by the gimbal angle limit. Just learning how to fly this thing and need a better stick and throttle.
> 
> 
> View attachment 755278
> 
> View attachment 755279



Niceeeeeeeee , but imagine 8 of these defending us from the Burmese

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> Niceeeeeeeee , but imagine 8 of these defending us from the Burmese


Waiting for BAF to announce something At BAS 2022 tbh⌛

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Got the BAF Mig-29 skin on DCS. The R-27 is a formidable weapon , problem is that the radar needs to continuously track the hostile and the evasive manuevers are limited by the gimbal angle limit. *Just learning how to fly this thing and need a better stick and throttle.*



 

The _sahih_ way is to spend 15 years flying K-8Ws and Yak-130s first.

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> BAF : Imma get some trainers
> 
> DJ Khaled : Another one
> 
> BAF: Ok some trainers then
> 
> DJ Khaled : Another one


Lmao coincidentally my name is Khaled 😂






F-6 enthusiast said:


> if we get F-16s, i hope they add CFTs.


New f16s come standard with them

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## SpaceMan18

Ah yes unmanned aerial refueler lol , kinda cool

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## Destranator

SpaceMan18 said:


> Ah yes unmanned aerial refueler lol , kinda cool


BAF might object to it citing lack of obsolescence.

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## Avicenna

Conflicted because I'm pissed at France.

But what a French beauty!!!!

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## Destranator

Guys, what do you think of the idea of BAF investing in UCAVs R&D right now with emphasis on long range maritime strike, land attack, network integration and refuelling capabilities.

Such UCAVs can make it impossible for enemies to invade or impose naval blockades.

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## SpaceMan18

Destranator said:


> Guys, what do you think of the idea of BAF investing in UCAVs R&D right now with emphasis on long range maritime strike, land attack, network integration and refuelling capabilities.
> 
> Such UCAVs can make it impossible for enemies to invade or impose naval blockades.



Fucking Genius Idea , it makes sense anyways cause drones will become even more OP as time goes on

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## Lord Of Gondor

> Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Singh Bhadauria, PVSM, AVSM, VM, ADC arrived in Dhaka today for a 3-day visit on invitation of COAS, Bangladesh Air Force His 2nd visit to #Bangladesh on assuming command of #IndianAirForce

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## F-6 enthusiast

Burmese will get 6 Su-30SMEs , i think they are ready. 

cannot confirm source of image or whether it is legit. either way, BAF will fight them with their _*''ottadhunik'' *Mig-29 




_

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Burmese will get 6 Su-30SMEs , i think they are ready.
> 
> cannot confirm source of image or whether it is legit. either way, BAF will fight them with their _*''ottadhunik'' *Mig-29
> 
> View attachment 757016
> _



We're.......*fucked*

Unless we can use out T-300s to take out their dam airbase

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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> We're.......*fucked*
> 
> Unless we can use out T-300s to take out their dam airbase


they'll just shift their flankers to a faraway base , not a problem since flankers have really long legs. These could be used for deep strike and maritime strike for their range. Our shipping could be at risk

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## sallador saan

SpaceMan18 said:


> We're.......*fucked*
> 
> Unless we can use out T-300s to take out their dam airbase



let's just hope that their political instability continues

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Burmese will get 6 Su-30SMEs , i think they are ready.
> 
> cannot confirm source of image or whether it is legit. either way, BAF will fight them with their _*''ottadhunik'' *Mig-29
> 
> View attachment 757016
> _




Don't rule out the upgraded MIg-29BMs that BD now has.

They have brand new radar and that allows the full capability of the R-27 BVRAAM to be brought into play.

BAF should order some dozens of extended-range R-77 and then the two aircraft will be somewhat comparable.


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## leonblack08

No reason for anyone to be all doomy and gloomy by MAF acquisition. You guys are giving far too much credit to Burmese for no reason.

They cannot afford to wage a war, forget blocking our shipping lane. Period.

China won't let it happen to prevent BD slipping into US quarter, US won't let it happen to bring BD under their influence against China. BD has a better image than Burmese in global stage and that has been a result of long term strategy. Be it social indicators like perceived democracy, economic growth or from the perspective of BD having an excellent rep in UN missions.

At best there will be a border skirmish between BD and Burma.

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## Destranator

leonblack08 said:


> No reason for anyone to be all doomy and gloomy by MAF acquisition. You guys are giving far too much credit to Burmese for no reason.
> 
> They cannot afford to wage a war, forget blocking our shipping lane. Period.
> 
> China won't let it happen to prevent BD slipping into US quarter, US won't let it happen to bring BD under their influence against China. BD has a better image than Burmese in global stage and that has been a result of long term strategy. Be it social indicators like perceived democracy, economic growth or from the perspective of BD having an excellent rep in UN missions.
> 
> At best there will be a border skirmish between BD and Burma.


The worst thing we can do is underestimate the enemy. The Bumese never wait to seek Chinese permission on anything, they won't start now.
Burmese internal problems would have not impact on its ability to deploy MRCAs against BD.
The Chinese have greater stakes in Burma than in BD. It won't do squat.

The US will only offer lip service and maybe sell a few toys.

The bottom line is, no one will help BD if we BD does not help itself.

BAF morons are yet to get it through their heads.

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## leonblack08

Destranator said:


> The worst thing we can do is underestimate the enemy. The Bumese never wait to seek Chinese permission on anything, they won't start now.
> Burmese internal problems would have not impact on its ability to deploy MRCAs against BD.
> The Chinese have greater stakes in Burma than in BD. It won't do squat.
> 
> The US will only offer lip service and maybe sell a few toys.
> 
> The bottom line is, no one will help BD if we BD does not help itself.
> 
> BAF morons are yet to get it through their heads.



It's not about underestimating.

Myanmar is not at a level where they can completely dominate Bangladesh and won't be in the near future either. So any conflict will also cause substantial loss to them, which is a deterrent enough. They can start a war but cannot guarantee a significant gain of territory or whatever their objective may be.

If Myanmar had military and economic prowess relative to India, then we should be extremely worried. However, that is not the case. Hence we shouldn't be fear mongering for no reason.

Plus, if they invade BD without provocation, China and US will intervene out of their own self interest. It's not the same as killing poor people in their own territory.

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## SpaceMan18

leonblack08 said:


> It's not about underestimating.
> 
> Myanmar is not at a level where they can completely dominate Bangladesh and won't be in the near future either. So any conflict will also cause substantial loss to them, which is a deterrent enough. They can start a war but cannot guarantee a significant gain of territory or whatever their objective may be.
> 
> If Myanmar had military and economic prowess relative to India, then we should be extremely worried. However, that is not the case. Hence we shouldn't be fear mongering for no reason.
> 
> Plus, if they invade BD without provocation, China and US will intervene out of their own self interest. It's not the same as killing poor people in their own territory.



True , but we gotta make sure we're armed to the teeth and if they decide to push more of their BS against us we will not hesitate to bomb the living shits out them.

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## leonblack08

SpaceMan18 said:


> True , but we gotta make sure we're armed to the teeth and if they decide to push more of their BS against us we will not hesitate to bomb the living shits out them.



That I completely agree.

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## F-6 enthusiast

leonblack08 said:


> It's not about underestimating.
> 
> Myanmar is not at a level where they can completely dominate Bangladesh and won't be in the near future either. So any conflict will also cause substantial loss to them, which is a deterrent enough. They can start a war but cannot guarantee a significant gain of territory or whatever their objective may be.
> 
> If Myanmar had military and economic prowess relative to India, then we should be extremely worried. However, that is not the case. Hence we shouldn't be fear mongering for no reason.
> 
> Plus, if they invade BD without provocation, China and US will intervene out of their own self interest. It's not the same as killing poor people in their own territory.


 I think its more about causing disruption to our supply chain and economy. No military arm can succeed without air power. MRCA is not a luxury but a necessecity. Disruption has the potential to reverse economic gains of the past decades. Plus the Burmese are not a responsible state actor, they won't follow the rules, we have more to loose. 

National Security Bole kotha @Destranator

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## Destranator

leonblack08 said:


> It's not about underestimating.
> 
> Myanmar is not at a level where they can completely dominate Bangladesh and won't be in the near future either. So any conflict will also cause substantial loss to them, which is a deterrent enough. They can start a war but cannot guarantee a significant gain of territory or whatever their objective may be.
> 
> If Myanmar had military and economic prowess relative to India, then we should be extremely worried. However, that is not the case. Hence we shouldn't be fear mongering for no reason.
> 
> Plus, if they invade BD without provocation, China and US will intervene out of their own self interest. It's not the same as killing poor people in their own territory.


I am not talking about any invasion. Myanmar has no need to invade. A few air strikes on Chittagong to destroy the port and the lone refinery is enough to cripple BD. Burmese economics is irrelevant in this context.
China and US won't do squat. As I have already explained, the Chinese stand to lose more by getting involved while the US is neither capable of intervening quickly enough before the damage is done nor does it have anything to gain.
Let's stop making excuses for the pathetic spineless organisation that BAF is.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> I am not talking about any invasion. Myanmar has no need to invade. A few air strikes on Chittagong to destroy the port and the lone refinery is enough to cripple BD. Burmese economics is irrelevant in this context.
> China and US won't do squat. As I have already explained, the Chinese stand to lose more by getting involved while the US is neither capable of intervening quickly enough before the damage is done nor does it have anything to gain.
> Let's stop making excuses for the pathetic spineless organisation that BAF is.




The thing that does not make sense is where is the MRSAM network that would pretty much negate most of the MAF ability to bomb BD?

Cost will only be around 1 billion US dollars and once complemented with the FM-90 batteries/radar-guided anti-aircraft artillery, it would be a good way to defend against MAF air attacks on critical infrastructure targets.

This is not just about MRCA but a lack of joined up thinking in the upper echelons of the BD military/political leadership.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> The thing that does not make sense is where is the MRSAM network that would pretty much negate most of the MAF ability to bomb BD?
> 
> Cost will only be around 1 billion US dollars and once complemented with the FM-90 batteries/radar-guided anti-aircraft artillery, it would be a good way to defend against MAF air attacks on critical infrastructure targets.
> 
> This is not just about MRCA but a lack of joined up thinking in the upper echelons of the BD military/political leadership.


Medium to Long Range missiles and fighter jets fall in BAF's domain. 

BAF needs reform.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Medium to Long Range missiles and fighter jets fall in BAF's domain.
> 
> BAF needs reform.




These idiots have been trying to buy MRCA since 2017 but they do not realise that you need MRSAM to properly defend your bases that will house them. Short-range SAMS like FM-90 are not enough as they only provide point defence and you need area defence that only MRSAM or LRSAM can provide.

I do not think it is just a BAF thing as BD needs a military service that goes above the 3 services that looks at the overall picture and fills in gaps that are not covered. This is a political leadership issue.

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> These idiots have been trying to buy MRCA since 2017 but they do not realise that you need MRSAM to properly defend your bases that will house them. Short-range SAMS like FM-90 are not enough as they only provide point defence and you need area defence that only MRSAM or LRSAM can provide.
> 
> I do not think it is just a BAF think as BD needs a military service that goes above the 3 services that looks at the overall picture and fills in gaps that are not covered. This is a political leadership issue.



Bring in consultants from either TuAF or RAF.

And see what recommendations they make.

Take into consideration their insights.

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> Bring in consultants from either TuAF or RAF.
> 
> And see what recommendations they make.
> 
> Take into consideration their insights.



True 

In the end guys , it's almost like they don't even give a shit lol.....well BD did want MRSAM but never got it sadly.


We need our own layered air defense , I guess they will eventually come

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Bring in consultants from either TuAF or RAF.
> 
> And see what recommendations they make.
> 
> Take into consideration their insights.





Is that even required?

A teenager who takes an interest in military affairs knows that MRSAM is far more important and more easily obtainable than MRCA right now.


Stick some batteries around Dhaka, Chittagong, Padma Bridge, Roopur and some other important sites and integrate them into a networked system and you are pretty much good to go. The seller will give you all the training and knowledge to be able to do this.

This seems to be more of a lack of concern than one of sheer incompetence as surely one of the military top brass in BD has noticed this and mentioned it to the political leadership but nothing has been done as of yet.

I am utterly appalled that BD has no real means to defend itself in 2021 from an impoverished hole called Myanmar next door. BD should be the one doing the bullying and not the other way round.

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## SpaceMan18

UKBengali said:


> Is that even required?
> 
> A teenager who takes an interest in military affairs knows that MRSAM is far more important and more easily obtainable than MRCA right now.
> 
> This seems to be more of a lack of concern than one of sheer incompetence as surely one of the military top grass in BD has noticed this and mentioned it to the political leadership but nothing has been done as of yet.
> 
> I am utterly appalled that BD has no real means to defend itself in 2021 from a impoverised hole called Myanmar next door. BD should be the one doing the bullying and not the other way round.



BD doesn't give one shit about itself and is very stubborn , until Myanmar pulls a Pearl Harbor on us we won't learn

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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Is that even required?
> 
> A teenager who takes an interest in military affairs knows that MRSAM is far more important and more easily obtainable than MRCA right now.
> 
> 
> Stick some batteries around Dhaka, Chittagong, Padma Bridge, Roopur and some other important sites and integrate them into a networked system and you are pretty much good to go. The seller will give you all the training and knowledge to be able to do this.
> 
> This seems to be more of a lack of concern than one of sheer incompetence as surely one of the military top brass in BD has noticed this and mentioned it to the political leadership but nothing has been done as of yet.
> 
> I am utterly appalled that BD has no real means to defend itself in 2021 from an impoverished hole called Myanmar next door. BD should be the one doing the bullying and not the other way round.



I dunno whats going on man.

It's embarrassing to be honest.

But I would hope the leadership understands what a slap in the face the country got from Myanmar and would take steps to make sure that never happens again.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Assembly rights ? interesting. I think the Swiss will go for the Gripen tbh. 

Airbus offers to assemble Eurofighter in Switzerland to win $6.5 billion deal -report (msn.com)

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Assembly rights ? interesting. I think the Swiss will go for the Gripen tbh.
> 
> Airbus offers to assemble Eurofighter in Switzerland to win $6.5 billion deal -report (msn.com)


Sweden is always keen on ToT. Previously they provided us Aslam:








Sweden Aslam awaits release


One of the most dreaded criminals of Dhaka, Sheikh Aslam, alias Sweden Aslam, now serving time at the Kashimpur High Security Prison on murder charges is likely to come out of jail any time, apprehends the home ministry. The home ministry in a letter to the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO)…




m.theindependentbd.com

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Sweden is always keen on ToT. Previously they provided us Aslam:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden Aslam awaits release
> 
> 
> One of the most dreaded criminals of Dhaka, Sheikh Aslam, alias Sweden Aslam, now serving time at the Kashimpur High Security Prison on murder charges is likely to come out of jail any time, apprehends the home ministry. The home ministry in a letter to the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO)…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.theindependentbd.com


An interesting thing about swiss fighter procurement is that the swiss public will get to Vote on it. 
i think the public rejected the Gripen in a vote a few years ago. 

Apparently US has thousands of F-16, F-15 , F-18 in boneyards which can be put into operation with some servicing and extend their airframe lives upto 25 years.





@SpaceMan18 got some spare F-16? asking for a friend.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> An interesting thing about swiss fighter procurement is that the swiss public will get to Vote on it.
> i think the public rejected the Gripen in a vote a few years ago.
> 
> Apparently US has thousands of F-16, F-15 , F-18 in boneyards which can be put into operation with some servicing and extend their airframe lives upto 25 years.
> View attachment 757393
> 
> 
> @SpaceMan18 got some spare F-16? asking for a friend.







Does this count lol ?

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> Bring in consultants from either TuAF or RAF.
> 
> And see what recommendations they make.
> 
> Take into consideration their insights.


RAF consultants are professional thinkers and planners but our politicians are not. They will not see what the RAF guys will see. They will find out ways to negate the recommendations. 

Every damn important thing is decided by our dumb politicians. Or is it decided by one person?

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## mb444

bluesky said:


> RAF consultants are professional thinkers and planners but our politicians are not. They will not see what the RAF guys will see. They will find out ways to negate the recommendations.
> 
> Every damn important thing is decided by our dumb politicians. Or is it decided by one person?




However bad BAF is in planning we should develop our own plans. No foreign consultants can really set national policy.

We must not involve others in my opinion..... good or bad we must learn, accept mistakes might be made and then work to correct it

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> However bad BAF is in planning we should develop our own plans. No foreign consultants can really set national policy.
> 
> We must not involve others in my opinion..... good or bad we must learn, accept mistakes might be made and then work to correct it


We need some guidance though, we essentially have to rebuild BAF due to decades of neglect. Institutions like RAF, USAF can help us build a professional (not the Indian Air Force kind of professional ) institution with well trained , well motivated pilots and ground crew. The secret ingredient is funding and training. 

Air forces that have been trained in western style by USAF, RAF have been able to defeat bigger ,well equipped opponents. PAF vs IAF. 

What i'm going to say , is going to be controversial but *BAF needs more trainers *if it wants to have a potent Air Force.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> However bad BAF is in planning we should develop our own plans. No foreign consultants can really set national policy.
> 
> We must not involve others in my opinion..... good or bad we must learn, accept mistakes might be made and then work to correct it



Disagree.

I'm not talking about setting national policy.

I'm saying get some folks who are competent and experienced to evaluate our deficiencies and formulate a plan to set up a NATO standard air arm.

It's not re-inventing the wheel.

The trick is to find the shortest most efficient path to the goal, NOT trial and error.

There is so much potential here.

BAF potentially can be at a crossroads.

Please BAF don't waste this oppurtunity.

Also, I know this is just a YouTube video.

But take a look.

This separates the West from the rest.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> This separates the West from the rest.


indeed
these guys have a culture of reflection and improvement. they tell you when and where you messed up and how to learn from it.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> indeed
> these guys have a culture of reflection and improvement. they tell you when and where you messed up and how to learn from it.



BAF needs a western style of planning , once trained like that we will be a force to be not messed with

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## Michael Corleone

SpaceMan18 said:


> BAF needs a western style of planning , once trained like that we will be a force to be not messed with


I say west and east both. In this regard PAF RAF are the best. They have the stand-off weapons and they also learn to dogfight

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Disagree.
> 
> I'm not talking about setting national policy.
> 
> I'm saying get some folks who are competent and experienced to evaluate our deficiencies and formulate a plan to set up a NATO standard air arm.
> 
> It's not re-inventing the wheel.
> 
> The trick is to find the shortest most efficient path to the goal, NOT trial and error.
> 
> There is so much potential here.
> 
> BAF potentially can be at a crossroads.
> 
> Please BAF don't waste this oppurtunity.
> 
> Also, I know this is just a YouTube video.
> 
> But take a look.
> 
> This separates the West from the rest.




Technical and tactical level consulting is fine. Training on how to plan or optimise services is fine. Basicly there is no issues on getting foreign help on learning to use tools and techniques.

My point was we should not rely on others to set strategic outlook or policy. It would represent a security risk and a non BD wont fully understand or appreciate the nuances.

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> Technical and tactical level consulting is fine.
> 
> My point was we should not rely on others to set strategic outlook or policy. It would represent a security risk and *a non BD wont fully understand or appreciate the nuances.*


Particularly the strange obsession and prioritisation of UN mission deployments over national security.

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## Avicenna

Nice pic!

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Particularly the strange obsession and prioritisation of UN mission deployments over national security.


UN mission banks money for whoever is going into it. They get paid atleast 20x army wages so why not?
I don’t remember how much but handsomely paid for the job

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## nomi007

BAF want a free aircraft whether it is from China USA or Endia.
Some sources are saying that may be Bangladesh will accept Israel, and in response Israeli will give some retired F-16s to BAF.

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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> The thing that does not make sense is where is the MRSAM network that would pretty much negate most of the MAF ability to bomb BD?



Wonder if air defense package is part of the recently signed MoU with Roketsan.



Destranator said:


> The Chinese have greater stakes in Burma than in BD. It won't do squat.



China isn't stupid to risk a $10+ billion export market, one of it's top 3 arms importer and loan receiver which has lot Chinese influence and takes lot assistance in local development project just because it has greater stakes in Burma than in BD. It'll try to stop both parties just like the West cause it's bad for business for all.



Destranator said:


> Particularly the strange obsession and prioritisation of UN mission deployments over national security.



Only 6401 troops/personnel made you think BD has obsession and prioritization of UN mission deployments over national security? 🤨🙄








F-6 enthusiast said:


> BAF needs more trainers










Michael Corleone said:


> I don’t remember how much but handsomely paid for the job



$1300 per month if i am not wrong.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> $1300 per month if i am not wrong


Good compared to the shit salary in army although every expense is free in army

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## Jobless Jack

nomi007 said:


> BAF want a free aircraft whether it is from China USA or Endia.
> Some sources are saying that may be Bangladesh will accept Israel, and in response Israeli will give some retired F-16s to BAF.




Israel will not donate anything to BD.

If BD joins quad. Uncle sam will happily supply the f16's...+ more...

All the things BD has always wanted but to afraid to ask..


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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> afraid to ask


Asked but rejected


F-6 enthusiast said:


> We need some guidance though, we essentially have to rebuild BAF due to decades of neglect. Institutions like RAF, USAF can help us build a professional (not the Indian Air Force kind of professional ) institution with well trained , well motivated pilots and ground crew. The secret ingredient is funding and training.
> 
> Air forces that have been trained in western style by USAF, RAF have been able to defeat bigger ,well equipped opponents. PAF vs IAF.
> 
> What i'm going to say , is going to be controversial but *BAF needs more trainers *if it wants to have a potent Air Force.


Good instructors too. Not just the kind that gets duty rotation from RAB

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## F-6 enthusiast

Operation Kilo Flight. All BAF needs is Cessna with some 50 cals

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> Asked but rejected


Uncle sam asked BD rejected 

All BD has to do is make a deal with uncle sam. Join quad and boom.

All BD's tech needs across all the sectors will be taken care of by a very generous uncle sam.


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## SpaceMan18

Jobless Jack said:


> Uncle sam asked BD rejected
> 
> All BD has to do is make a deal with uncle sam. Join quad and boom.
> 
> All BD's tech needs across all the sectors will be taken care of by a very generous uncle sam.



Taiwan and Korea : Pretty much

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## Incog_nito

Why not BAF adopt the strategy of not putting all eggs or some eggs in one basket; rather integrate all the tech from different regions into its Air Force and build strong relations with Super Powers?

BAF can easily be built its future fleet with 180-200 Aircraft, that can be comprised of:

60 Aircraft from North American Origin:
F-16s Block-70/72
or
F-18s Block-III/IV

60 Aircraft from European Origin:
JAS-39 E/F
or
EF-2000s Tranche 4/5
or
Rafaels F4/F5

60 Aircraft from Chinese/Russian Origin:
J-20s / J-35s / J-25s (J-XX)
or
SU-57s

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## Jobless Jack

Incog_nito said:


> Why not BAF adopt the strategy of not putting all eggs or some eggs in one basket; rather integrate all the tech from different regions into its Air Force and build strong relations with Super Powers?
> 
> BAF can easily be built its future fleet with 180-200 Aircraft, that can be comprised of:
> 
> 60 Aircraft from North American Origin:
> F-16s Block-70/72
> or
> F-18s Block-III/IV
> 
> 60 Aircraft from European Origin:
> JAS-39 E/F
> or
> EF-2000s Tranche 4/5
> or
> Rafaels F4/F5
> 
> 60 Aircraft from Chinese/Russian Origin:
> J-20s / J-35s / J-25s (J-XX)
> or
> SU-57s


Because super powers themselves dont get along and they are not willing to share bd.

Its a obsessive stalker behaviour by superpowers.

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## Michael Corleone

Jobless Jack said:


> Uncle sam asked BD rejected
> 
> All BD has to do is make a deal with uncle sam. Join quad and boom.
> 
> All BD's tech needs across all the sectors will be taken care of by a very generous uncle sam.


70s and 90s we asked for f4, f5, f101 I think and also f16s. Rejected because we were dirt poor. Imagine Sudan flying f16s lol 
All we gotta do is sign gsomia and aacsa and we good


Incog_nito said:


> Why not BAF adopt the strategy of not putting all eggs or some eggs in one basket; rather integrate all the tech from different regions into its Air Force and build strong relations with Super Powers?
> 
> BAF can easily be built its future fleet with 180-200 Aircraft, that can be comprised of:
> 
> 60 Aircraft from North American Origin:
> F-16s Block-70/72
> or
> F-18s Block-III/IV
> 
> 60 Aircraft from European Origin:
> JAS-39 E/F
> or
> EF-2000s Tranche 4/5
> or
> Rafaels F4/F5
> 
> 60 Aircraft from Chinese/Russian Origin:
> J-20s / J-35s / J-25s (J-XX)
> or
> SU-57s


If we had the money sure. But we act like we can buy the world and take 20 years to buy something by that point it’s obsolete antiquated

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## Jobless Jack

Michael Corleone said:


> 70s and 90s we asked for f4, f5, f101 I think and also f16s. Rejected because we were dirt poor. Imagine Sudan flying f16s lol
> All we gotta do is sign gsomia and aacsa and we good


I am talking about now.

Sign the dotted line for quad. 

Uncle sam will be very genourous.

In the 80's and 90's uncle sam did not want you. Now they do. We all know uncle sam is extremely generous to his favarite nephews .

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> 70s and 90s we asked for f4, f5, f101 I think and also f16s. Rejected because we were dirt poor. Imagine Sudan flying f16s lol


imagine being too poor to operate F-5s the simplest , cheapest and easy to operate fighters at the time. Damn.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> imagine being too poor to operate F-5s the simplest , cheapest and easy to operate fighters at the time. Damn.


Thank god the basket has a Bottom now 😂

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Thank god the basket has a Bottom now 😂


i'm glad BD has now embraced the ''Grind'' mindset.

imagine these flying around in BAF colours in the 80s









what could have been

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i'm glad BD has now embraced the ''Grind'' mindset.
> 
> imagine these flying around in BAF colours in the 80s
> View attachment 761720
> 
> View attachment 761721
> 
> what could have been



Nice little plane.

Would have been perfect for Bangladesh and better than any Mig-21/F-7.

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i'm glad BD has now embraced the ''Grind'' mindset.
> 
> imagine these flying around in BAF colours in the 80s
> View attachment 761720
> 
> View attachment 761721
> 
> what could have been



The pictures you have are of the F-20 Tigershark. That is a much later development of the F-5E.






The nose is flatter at the tip (top/bottom) and is a different shape than that of the F-5. Much better avionics and engines and had BVR capability.









Northrop F-20 Tigershark - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Tomeyto/Tomatah...six or a half dozen or the other.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i'm glad BD has now embraced the ''Grind'' mindset.
> 
> imagine these flying around in BAF colours in the 80s
> View attachment 761720
> 
> View attachment 761721
> 
> what could have been


I didn’t know about f5s until much later in my aviation enthusiast journey, love the design

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## SpaceMan18

Michael Corleone said:


> I didn’t know about f5s until much later in my aviation enthusiast journey, love the design



Same honestly lol , Cold War fighter jets had so much nice designs to them honestly a golden era of planes lol.








F-6 enthusiast said:


> imagine being too poor to operate F-5s the simplest , cheapest and easy to operate fighters at the time. Damn.



Kinda embarrassing lol , even North Vietnam managed to capture some and fly it lol.

But aye look at the bright side , now we have the options to procure EFTs , F-16s etc

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> The pictures you have are of the F-20 Tigershark. That is a much later development of the F-5E.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nose is flatter at the tip (top/bottom) and is a different shape than that of the F-5. Much better avionics and engines and had BVR capability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Northrop F-20 Tigershark - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tomeyto/Tomatah...six or a half dozen or the other.



No those are F-5E.

Both Brazilian and Swiss.

F-20 was never exported.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> No those are F-5E.
> 
> Both Brazilian and Swiss.
> 
> F-20 was never exported.



Well, I'll be. they must have changed the nose cone (similar to F-20) in later versions of F-5E produced, then.

For comparison, here's an early F-5 (A or B version). With the characteristic "area rule" tip tanks and round nose cone.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> No those are F-5E.
> 
> Both Brazilian and Swiss.
> 
> F-20 was never exported.


Brazilian ones can fire AMRAAMs but they'll be replaced by Gripens i think.

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## F-6 enthusiast

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Brazilian ones can fire AMRAAMs but they'll be replaced by Gripens i think.


Correction , they can fire Derby medium range missile not AIM-120

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Correction , they can fire Derby medium range missile not AIM-120
> View attachment 761789


Derby, also known as the R-Darter.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Philip the Arab said:


> Derby, also known as the R-Darter.


South African made ?


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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> South African made ?


Not really, more of a joint project AFAIK.

In fact they once had nukes and an Israeli design for an ICBM they produced.

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## F-6 enthusiast

*GUYS *

guys i did some digging about the BAS 2022 schedule which was edited.

Wayback machine (internet archive) says the BAS 2022 page was edited multiple times during the month of november 2020
*





DEFSECA *published an article on his site on the 12th November 2020 (still up btw) copy pasting the schedule of the BAS 2022 website (on his article) before it was edited. Now i know you guys don't trust DEFSECA , and that's understandable but i swear i read the words '' Contracts to be signed (or something along those lines) '' when i first visited the BAS 2022 website sometime in october 2020.





It is very *likely *that MRCA winner will be announced on the BAS 2022. Look forward to it.
nOT SAYING WITH 100 % certainty that its going to be announced , but *it is very , very likely. *

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> *GUYS *
> 
> guys i did some digging about the BAS 2022 schedule which was edited.
> 
> Wayback machine (internet archive) says the BAS 2022 page was edited multiple times during the month of november 2020
> *
> View attachment 761791
> 
> 
> DEFSECA *published an article on his site on the 12th November 2020 (still up btw) copy pasting the schedule of the BAS 2022 website (on his article) before it was edited. Now i know you guys don't trust DEFSECA , and that's understandable but i swear i read the words '' Contracts to be signed (or something along those lines) '' when i first visited the BAS 2022 website sometime in october 2020.
> View attachment 761792
> 
> 
> It is very *likely *that MRCA winner will be announced on the BAS 2022. Look forward to it.
> nOT SAYING WITH 100 % certainty that its going to be announced , but *it is very , very likely. *
> 
> 
> View attachment 761793



Ashai Baandhi Ghar.....

Asha is the only thing we got left...

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> Well, I'll be. they must have changed the nose cone (similar to F-20) in later versions of F-5E produced, then.
> 
> For comparison, here's an early F-5 (A or B version). With the characteristic "area rule" tip tanks and round nose cone.





Avicenna said:


> No those are F-5E.
> 
> Both Brazilian and Swiss.
> 
> F-20 was never exported.


Clearly you both are wrong 
They’re mig 28

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## Incog_nito

Jobless Jack said:


> Because super powers themselves dont get along and they are not willing to share bd.
> 
> Its a obsessive stalker behaviour by superpowers.



Trying, is not a bad act.


----------



## ghost250

Bangladesh team visits Turkish Aerospace Industries HQ


A Bangladesh delegation led by the nation’s top diplomat in Ankara, H.E. Mosud Mannan visited the headquarters of the Turkish Aerospace Industries Inc to further




www.defseca.com

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414942094439890946

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## The Ronin

F-6 enthusiast said:


> imagine being too poor to operate F-5s the simplest , cheapest and easy to operate fighters at the time. Damn.



That was't for being poor, it was because of political turmoil. Russia refused to supply spare parts for the Mig-21 after Mujib's assassination and USA did the same about selling anything.



F-6 enthusiast said:


> Correction , they can fire Derby medium range missile not AIM-120



Singaporean upgraded F-5E could fire AIM-120. Thai F-5 can fire Derby BVR with 100km range.

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## Philip the Arab

The Ronin said:


> Singaporean upgraded F-5E could fire AIM-120.


It's radar sucks though, it would be destroyed by any 4th gen fighter.


----------



## Incog_nito

A lot of guys reacted to my comment with Laugh emojis.

I guess some of you heard a piece of unofficial news that BAF is buying an initial batch of 12-18 EF-2000s. And maybe that order may later going to increase to 48-42 more.

And now, with the new Russian Single Engine fighter - we can assume BAF might add them to their wishlist too.

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## F-6 enthusiast

This is a mini-documentary about the UAE AF first time in Red Flag. One day BAF will join red flag and get invaluable combat experience.

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> This is a mini-documentary about the UAE AF first time in Red Flag. One day BAF will join red flag and get invaluable combat experience.



I doubt that day will come.

But great video.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> I doubt that day will come.


if we get F-16 or EFT or Both , it is possible.
All we need is the political will to do it.
MM will think ten times before they try anything funny.

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if we get F-16 or EFT or Both , it is possible.
> All we need is the political will to do it.
> MM will think ten times before they try anything funny.



I don't think Bangladesh is important enough to get that invite.

There are always reasons why the US does what it does.

Look at the countries that are involved in these things.

I just can't EVER see BAF people at Nellis.

However, I do see Bangladesh get invited to Pitch Black if Bangladesh continues the Western direction.

Australia seems to be the Quad member to recruit rather than India.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> I don't think Bangladesh is important enough to get that invite.
> 
> There are always reasons why the US does what it does.


The US is shifting its attention to the Indian ocean and the pacific. We are located near 2 strategic choke points. Americans understand this , and so do the Chinese. It is in their interest to have a ''Neutral'' or aligned BD. 







The ''big two'' in south Asia have already chosen their sides (no point in wooing them ) , the third emerging power has chosen to stay neutral. 
They will try to give us financial incentives and we must take them to develop our state.
An excercise like Red Flag is peanuts for US. Remember they even invited the Russians to red flag

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> The US is shifting its attention to the Indian ocean and the pacific. We are located near 2 strategic choke points. Americans understand this , and so do the Chinese. It is in their interest to have a ''Neutral'' or aligned BD.
> 
> View attachment 764532
> 
> 
> The ''big two'' in south Asia have already chosen their sides (no point in wooing them ) , the third emerging power has chosen to stay neutral.
> They will try to give us financial incentives and we must take them to develop our state.
> An excercise like Red Flag is peanuts for US. Remember they even invited the Russians to red flag



" Remember they even invited the Russians to red flag"

?

Share link please.


----------



## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> " Remember they even invited the Russians to red flag"
> 
> ?
> 
> Share link please.


Apologies, looks like i was wrong here , but there was a squadron or bigger size of Russian fighters Su-27 and Su-30s on an american air force base in 1998 were there was a ACM.

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## F-6 enthusiast

@Avicenna 

CORRECTION: 
it was Grand Forks AFB in 1992

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> @Avicenna
> 
> CORRECTION:
> it was Grand Forks AFB in 1992



Novelty visit.

For sure nothing of consequence.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Hate to say this But BAS 2022 might end up being disappointing, so dont get your hopes high 






at least they might announce the MRCA winner , which is what im really waiting for tbh

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Hate to say this But BAS 2022 might end up being disappointing, so dont get your hopes high
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least they might announce the MRCA winner , which is what im really waiting for tbh



I swear if it's not a dam EFT imma be pissed lol


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## F-6 enthusiast

SpaceMan18 said:


> I swear if it's not a dam EFT imma be pissed lol


imagine if we get Rafale lol.

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## F-6 enthusiast

@SpaceMan18 





hopefully with a BAF finflash and roundel. Insha Allah.

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## SpaceMan18

F-6 enthusiast said:


> imagine if we get Rafale lol.



We’re screwed then , there’s no way it will be Rafale since our connection with France is kinda low.


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## mb444

SpaceMan18 said:


> We’re screwed then , there’s no way it will be Rafale since our connection with France is kinda low.



EFT better than raffle for our needs.... to counter IAF we need the EFT to climb higher than raffle and dominate the skies..... neither the Gripen nor F16 can do that and in the end will lose to raffle.

BAF needs EFT..... J10c needs to complement the EFT capabilities.... but as a defensive posture the western fighter that fits our defensive doctrine given what IAF has is the EFT.... its faster, has greater range and on A2A warfare is superior.


Its a no brainer..... EFT is expensive but to have a credible defense on paper at least we need it. J10c may well be even better but its capability remains unkown.


Ideal minimal numbers we need is a sqd of EFT and a 1.5 sqd of j10c...... migs and F7s can make up the numbers.

I am however hoping for a sqd of EFT and 3 sqd of J10 and with that BD skies are out of bounds to IAF.

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## ghost250



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## Philip the Arab

MRCA has still not be announced in the almost 3 years since I have been on this site.🤣🤣

I'm beginning to think they will announce the winner when Hasina dies and they check her last will and testament.

"18 new J-7 is the winner"

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## DalalErMaNodi

Philip the Arab said:


> MRCA has still not be announced in the almost 3 years since I have been on this site.🤣🤣
> 
> I'm beginning to think they will announce the winner when Hasina dies and they check her last will and testament.
> 
> "18 new J-7 is the winner"





It is slated to be announced in Feb 2022 at the Bangladesh air show.. and new frigates at the fleet review in December..

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## PoondolotoPandalum

Do you think the airshow will go on as scheduled?

They haven't even come up with a logo, let alone even disclose even the most basic information about its structure, format, invited guests, exhibitions (both public and commercial), and display program. Literally, no one, other than Indian's, has so far confirmed their presence at Bangladesh airshow 2022. At least not recently.

International airshows are generally much better organized, offering far more substantial information on the aforementioned aspects of the program.

It'll most likely be delayed, if not canceled. Less than 6 months left. I doubt they can pull off an international airshow in that timeframe at the best of times. And we're far from the best of times.

This isn't at all surprising. Having followed Bangladesh airforce since the early 2000s, it's always high on speculations, unsubstantial rumors, and very little on the actual outcome. Bangladesh's frontline aviation (fighters + attack) has not changed much in a meaningful way for over 20 years. It essentially remained the same when her GDP was around $54 billion, compared to the present $350-364 billion. I can't think of the worst airforce, relative to GDP or population, then the BAF. At least as far as combat platforms are concerned

Even if the MRCA tender was confirmed in Feb 2022, deliveries can be expected by 2025/2026 at the earliest. It'd be almost three decades since Bangladesh will field a new combat platform. The last being the MiG-29s in the 2000s. So far, the only BVR capable (though severely limited by modern standards) high-performance fighter, 4th generation platform operated by BAF. And only 6/8 are air combat-capable (UB's don't have radar).

If you're going to have an airforce, have an actual airforce. As opposed to a gentleman's flying club. Which is what the BAF currently is.

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## Avicenna

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> Do you think the airshow will go on as scheduled?
> 
> They haven't even come up with a logo, let alone even disclose even the most basic information about its structure, format, invited guests, exhibitions (both public and commercial), and display program. Literally, no one, other than Indian's, has so far confirmed their presence at Bangladesh airshow 2022. At least not recently.
> 
> International airshows are generally much better organized, offering far more substantial information on the aforementioned aspects of the program.
> 
> It'll most likely be delayed, if not canceled. Less than 6 months left. I doubt they can pull off an international airshow in that timeframe at the best of times. And we're far from the best of times.
> 
> This isn't at all surprising. Having followed Bangladesh airforce since the early 2000s, it's always high on speculations, unsubstantial rumors, and very little on the actual outcome. Bangladesh's frontline aviation (fighters + attack) has not changed much in a meaningful way for over 20 years. It essentially remained the same when her GDP was around $54 billion, compared to the present $350-364 billion. I can't think of the worst airforce, relative to GDP or population, then the BAF. At least as far as combat platforms are concerned
> 
> Even if the MRCA tender was confirmed in Feb 2022, deliveries can be expected by 2025/2026 at the earliest. It'd be almost three decades since Bangladesh will field a new combat platform. The last being the MiG-29s in the 2000s. So far, the only BVR capable (though severely limited by modern standards) high-performance fighter, 4th generation platform operated by BAF. And only 6/8 are air combat-capable (UB's don't have radar).
> 
> If you're going to have an airforce, have an actual airforce. As opposed to a gentleman's flying club. Which is what the BAF currently is.



Agree completely.

It SHOULD be a matter of embarrassment for the nation.

But still, lets hope they can pull it off.

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## mb444

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> Do you think the airshow will go on as scheduled?
> 
> They haven't even come up with a logo, let alone even disclose even the most basic information about its structure, format, invited guests, exhibitions (both public and commercial), and display program. Literally, no one, other than Indian's, has so far confirmed their presence at Bangladesh airshow 2022. At least not recently.
> 
> International airshows are generally much better organized, offering far more substantial information on the aforementioned aspects of the program.
> 
> It'll most likely be delayed, if not canceled. Less than 6 months left. I doubt they can pull off an international airshow in that timeframe at the best of times. And we're far from the best of times.
> 
> This isn't at all surprising. Having followed Bangladesh airforce since the early 2000s, it's always high on speculations, unsubstantial rumors, and very little on the actual outcome. Bangladesh's frontline aviation (fighters + attack) has not changed much in a meaningful way for over 20 years. It essentially remained the same when her GDP was around $54 billion, compared to the present $350-364 billion. I can't think of the worst airforce, relative to GDP or population, then the BAF. At least as far as combat platforms are concerned
> 
> Even if the MRCA tender was confirmed in Feb 2022, deliveries can be expected by 2025/2026 at the earliest. It'd be almost three decades since Bangladesh will field a new combat platform. The last being the MiG-29s in the 2000s. So far, the only BVR capable (though severely limited by modern standards) high-performance fighter, 4th generation platform operated by BAF. And only 6/8 are air combat-capable (UB's don't have radar).
> 
> If you're going to have an airforce, have an actual airforce. As opposed to a gentleman's flying club. Which is what the BAF currently is.



Very unlikely it will take place.

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## Michael Corleone

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> Do you think the airshow will go on as scheduled?
> 
> They haven't even come up with a logo, let alone even disclose even the most basic information about its structure, format, invited guests, exhibitions (both public and commercial), and display program. Literally, no one, other than Indian's, has so far confirmed their presence at Bangladesh airshow 2022. At least not recently.
> 
> International airshows are generally much better organized, offering far more substantial information on the aforementioned aspects of the program.
> 
> It'll most likely be delayed, if not canceled. Less than 6 months left. I doubt they can pull off an international airshow in that timeframe at the best of times. And we're far from the best of times.
> 
> This isn't at all surprising. Having followed Bangladesh airforce since the early 2000s, it's always high on speculations, unsubstantial rumors, and very little on the actual outcome. Bangladesh's frontline aviation (fighters + attack) has not changed much in a meaningful way for over 20 years. It essentially remained the same when her GDP was around $54 billion, compared to the present $350-364 billion. I can't think of the worst airforce, relative to GDP or population, then the BAF. At least as far as combat platforms are concerned
> 
> Even if the MRCA tender was confirmed in Feb 2022, deliveries can be expected by 2025/2026 at the earliest. It'd be almost three decades since Bangladesh will field a new combat platform. The last being the MiG-29s in the 2000s. So far, the only BVR capable (though severely limited by modern standards) high-performance fighter, 4th generation platform operated by BAF. And only 6/8 are air combat-capable (UB's don't have radar).
> 
> If you're going to have an airforce, have an actual airforce. As opposed to a gentleman's flying club. Which is what the BAF currently is.


Said it perfectly. Our airforce is a joke that should be disbanded.

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## BlackViking

SpaceMan18 said:


> I swear if it's not a dam EFT imma be pissed lol


Idk man the but rafale seems to be coming

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## Avicenna

BlackViking said:


> Idk man the but rafale seems to be coming



Why do you say that?

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## SpaceMan18

Avicenna said:


> Why do you say that?



Him  🔫🇫🇷France

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/387202036172639

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/387202036172639



Which platforms in the BAF have this been integrated on?

Also, has an order or delivery been placed?

Also, below a list of potential goodies that Bangladesh may acquire given the recent cooperation between Turkey and Bangaldesh.

ROKETSAN Product Catalog:



https://www.roketsan.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ENG-2020.pdf



Enjoy!

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## DalalErMaNodi

Avicenna said:


> Which platforms in the BAF have this been integrated on?
> 
> Also, has an order or delivery been placed?
> 
> Also, below a list of potential goodies that Bangladesh may acquire given the recent cooperation between Turkey and Bangaldesh.
> 
> ROKETSAN Product Catalog:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.roketsan.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ENG-2020.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!




F-7BGI I believe.



They are integrated Teber laser guidance kit installed munitions into the F-7BGIs and MBs... Effectively turning dumb bombs into guided munitions.

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## Avicenna

DalalErMaNodi said:


> F-7BGI I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> They are integrated Teber laser guidance kit installed munitions into the F-7BGIs and MBs... Effectively turning dumb bombs into guided munitions.



I think that is limited to Teber though. (Which are used on MK 81 and MK82 bombs)

The catalog confirms Teber has been integrated with F-16 and F-7.

For Lacin not sure if it can be used with F-7. (Lacin used on Mk82)

Perhaps it can but not sure.

Also, happy to see this move towards guided munitions by BAF.

Hopefully, both BGI and BG can use them giving BAF 31 platforms that can use PGM.

Now hope that the upgraded Fulcrums start coming back in country with their Kh-31 and possibly R-77.

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlackViking said:


> Idk man the but rafale seems to be coming


Based on what ?

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I think that is limited to Teber though. (Which are used on MK 81 and MK82 bombs)
> 
> The catalog confirms Teber has been integrated with F-16 and F-7.
> 
> For Lacin not sure if it can be used with F-7. (Lacin used on Mk82)
> 
> Perhaps it can but not sure.
> 
> Also, happy to see this move towards guided munitions by BAF.
> 
> Hopefully, both BGI and BG can use them giving BAF 31 platforms that can use PGM.
> 
> Now hope that the upgraded Fulcrums start coming back in country with their Kh-31 and possibly R-77.


Bg and BGI both can use them 
Cc @DalalErMaNodi

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/388295642729945

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## SpaceMan18

DalalErMaNodi said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/388295642729945



Pretty good news if true , we would definitely need some EW too

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## -=virus=-

How many Mig 29s do BDAF operate, 8 or 16 ?


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## DalalErMaNodi

SpaceMan18 said:


> Pretty good news if true , we would definitely need some EW too



We already got delivery of EW equipment a long time ago.

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## DalalErMaNodi

-=virus=- said:


> How many Mig 29s do BDAF operate, 8 or 16 ?


 8

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## DalalErMaNodi

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/389547085938134

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## F-6 enthusiast

DalalErMaNodi said:


> It is slated to be announced in Feb 2022 at the Bangladesh air show


have a bad feeling that either the airshow won't happen or MRCA doesn't get announced


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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> have a bad feeling that either the airshow won't happen or MRCA doesn't get announced



Personally i would not count on either....remember we are talking about BAF here....i wont trust them to be able to make a sandwich in a bakery

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Personally i would not count on either....remember we are talking about BAF here....i wont trust them to be able to make a sandwich in a bakery


Well the army makes its own bread now so 😂

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## Destranator

mb444 said:


> Personally i would not count on either....remember we are talking about BAF here....i *wont trust them to be able to make a sandwich in a bakery*



Hush...hush...don't jinx it. Next thing you know, BAF asks top global bread makers to attend a "bake off" in Dhaka in 2022 to be able sell a puny 16 loafs.


Michael Corleone said:


> Well the army makes its own bread now so 😂







__





CSD Bangladesh


CSD Bangladesh, Canteen Stores Department of Bangladesh. It's under The Ministry of Defence (Bangladesh).After the independence of Bangladesh in 1971 the Government continued the functioning of CSD under a board of control headed by the Quarter Master General of Bangladesh Army with the primary...




csdbangladesh.com

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> have a bad feeling that either the airshow won't happen or MRCA doesn't get announced


Why do the fuckers need an air show to buy fokirni amounts of aircraft? Do they seriously expect the likes of Leonardo and Lockheed Martin to send aircraft and crew to Bangladesh to entertain them in the hopes of selling 16 units?

The idiots making these decisions should be thrown in jail for jeopardising national security.

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> Why do the fuckers need an air show to buy fokirni amounts of aircraft? Do they seriously expect the likes of Leonardo and Lockheed Martin to send aircraft and crew to Bangladesh to entertain them in the hopes of selling 16 units?
> 
> The idiots making these decisions should be thrown in jail for jeopardising national security.




It was odd. However taking a long term view, BD obviously needs to grow the BAF fleet and we also need to grow Biman, so there is public sector demand. Additionally post covid i am sure expansion of private avaiation will continue so there is that demand too 

So a small scale air show is feasible particularly as the big boys are all contracting. But a air show to announce EFT or whatever is an overkill..

Now to announce 16 eft alongside 32 J10c, some more purchases for Biman, UAV purchase for BA and BN would shake up the neighbourhood.

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Well the army makes its own bread now so 😂



I saw a pictures of Army Field bakery...compare this to half-burnt roti and watery daal served to army members in a certain large neighbor's force.....sorry for the OT post.

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> Now to announce 16 eft alongside 32 J10c, some more purchases for Biman, UAV purchase for BA and BN would shake up the neighbourhood.


yeah plus some MRSAM deals.
@PoondolotoPandalum
This video basically makes the point that BD has not prepared the necessary infra , promotion for BAS 2022 this could be a disappointment. Don't get your hopes up.







mb444 said:


> So a small scale air show is feasible particularly as the big boys are all contracting. But a air show to announce EFT or whatever is an overkill..


rumours are being spread by DEFSECA that price may have to be re-negotiatied because of C-19 delays.


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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> I saw a pictures of Army Field bakery...compare this to half-burnt roti and watery daal served to army members in a certain large neighbor's force.....sorry for the OT post.


Army cantonment bakery is amazing. Lots of delicious pastry

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Army cantonment bakery is amazing. Lots of delicious pastry



I know bhai.  

Have a sweet tooth too. Never met a cream roll I didn't like.

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## BlackViking

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Based on what ?


Sorry I was mistaken. Eft it is in sha Allah. Will know for sure in next month.

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlackViking said:


> Sorry I was mistaken. Eft it is in sha Allah. Will know for sure in next month.


Next month ? thought it would be Feb 22 ? or like never Please tell me your post is not an ironic one.


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## Avicenna

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431862898846928899

We want strong, unhindered Bangladesh-Germany defence cooperation like we have with UK, US, Turkey & others. This will secure German jobs and help modernise BD Forces. Subs, tanks, fighter aircraft, missiles and combat sensors can be supplied. Germany has to make special effort.
Quote Tweet


- State Secretary consultations with Foreign Sec. Masud Bin Momen from #Bangladesh Excellent exchange about our bilateral relations, situation in Afghanistan, regional politics, situation of #Rohingya, economic cooperation & sustainable development!




1:14 AM · Aug 29, 2021·Twitter for Android

Looks like Eurofighters are incoming.

(And hopefully Meteors)

UK, Italy and Germany on board.

This tweet is tremendously important IMO.

" Subs, tanks, fighter aircraft, missiles and combat sensors can be supplied. "

Wow.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> UK, Italy and Germany on board.



Strategic Dialogue 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431283384886595586Foreign minister will be in UK too

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432785059333820418

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Strategic Dialogue
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431283384886595586Foreign minister will be in UK too
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432785059333820418



Yes exactly.

Coupled with earlier dealing with Italy and Leonardo relationship.

Looks like BD is looking to engage Europe for high end defense equipment.

Extremely significant.

MashAllah.

The political foundation is taking shape for further defense purchases.

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## Destranator

"....will secure German jobs...."
The audacity and condescension.


Avicenna said:


> Yes exactly.
> 
> Coupled with earlier dealing with Italy and Leonardo relationship.
> 
> Looks like BD is looking to engage Europe for high end defense equipment.
> 
> Extremely significant.
> 
> MashAllah.
> 
> The political foundation is taking shape for further defense purchases.


If you observe diplomatic norms you would come to realise that this is standard diplomatic speak.
Not ruling anything out but don't get too excited based on the above.

EFT was almost a done deal until the US threw a spanner in the works by offering Vipers which threw BAF off quite easily given their collective ADHD.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Next month ? thought it would be Feb 22 ? or like never Please tell me your post is not an ironic one.


Get ready to be disappointed. The excuse will be Covid. However, something will be ordered by 2025.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> "....will secure German jobs...."
> The audacity and condescension.
> 
> If you observe diplomatic protocols you would realise that this is standard diplomatic speak.
> Not ruling anything out but don't get too excited based on the above.
> 
> EFT was almost a done deal until the US through a spanner in the works with Vipers which threw BAF off quite easily given their collective ADHD.


Amra khan’s nawabzada writing. Nigga didn’t know what Twitter is before I recommended he open an account in there

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Amra khan’s nawabzada writing. Nigga didn’t know what Twitter is before I recommended he open an account in there


Twitter is vying to have Amra Khan open more and more accounts in order to secure jobs at Silicon Valley.

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## BlackViking

Michael Corleone said:


> Amra khan’s nawabzada writing. Nigga didn’t know what Twitter is before I recommended he open an account in there


Did u see his recent post where he said bdmilitary suggested Baf to buy eft ? 🤣🤣

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Did u see his recent post where he said bdmilitary suggested Baf to buy eft ? 🤣🤣


His dad established BAF so it’s not far fetched for him to recommend BAF 😂
I know the nigga visits this forum so if you’re seeing this amra, greetings 🖖

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> His dad established BAF so it’s not far fetched for him to recommend BAF 😂
> I know the nigga visits this forum so if you’re seeing this amra, greetings 🖖


Dude is a top class entertainer.

Despite all the kamlas he has hired off late to post on the FB page, you can tell when it is Ashiq writing himself by observing the following indicators:
- he describes potential imports as if BD is the centre of the universe and the other countries exist for the sole purpose of appeasing BD.
- general bootlicking of whichever regime is in power. This is the same guy who planted BNP election posters on the BD military homepage before the 2008 elections. Now he acts like BNP were worse than Nazis.
- constant flip flops based on whichever direction the wind is blowing.
- a historical misunderstanding of the word "indigenous". Recently he posted on how BAF intends to overhaul FM-90s "indigenously (!)".
How the fcuk do you maintain indegenously? Previously he termed BD-08 as an "indigenous rifle" - China literally planted the entire production plant at BOF.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Dude is a top class entertainer.
> 
> Despite all the kamlas he has hired off late to post on the FB page, you can tell when it is Ashiq writing himself by observing the following indicators:
> - he describes potential imports as if BD is the centre of the universe and the other countries exist for the sole purpose of appeasing BD.
> - general bootlicking of whichever regime is in power. This is the same guy who planted BNP election posters on the BD military homepage before the 2008 elections. Now he acts like BNP were worse than Nazis.
> - constant flip flops based on whichever direction the wind is blowing.
> - a historical misunderstanding of the word "indigenous". Recently he posted on how BAF intends to overhaul FM-90s "indigenously (!)".
> How the fcuk do you maintain indegenously? Previously he termed BD-08 as an "indigenous rifle" - China literally planted the entire production plant at BOF.


Hahaha his writing style is unique. No amount of name changes can change that

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Dude is a top class entertainer.
> 
> Despite all the kamlas he has hired off late to post on the FB page, you can tell when it is Ashiq writing himself by observing the following indicators:
> - he describes potential imports as if BD is the centre of the universe and the other countries exist for the sole purpose of appeasing BD.
> - general bootlicking of whichever regime is in power. This is the same guy who planted BNP election posters on the BD military homepage before the 2008 elections. Now he acts like BNP were worse than Nazis.
> - constant flip flops based on whichever direction the wind is blowing.
> - a historical misunderstanding of the word "indigenous". Recently he posted on how BAF intends to overhaul FM-90s "indigenously (!)".
> How the fcuk do you maintain indegenously? Previously he termed BD-08 as an "indigenous rifle" - China literally planted the entire production plant at BOF.



He is just following neighborly practice. Hero-Honda, TVS-Suzuki, Bajaj-Kawasaki were all Japanese JV's before Indians started calling these indigenous technology startups. Hell I even heard some Sanghi folks call the flying Samosa something made with 'indigenous technology'.

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## SMX 3.0

Bilal9 said:


> He is just following neighborly practice. Hero-Honda, TVS-Suzuki, Bajaj-Kawasaki were all Japanese JV's before Indians started calling these indigenous technology startups. Hell I even heard some Sanghi folks call the flying Samosa something made with 'indigenous technology'.



Haven't seen this kind of India obsession anywhere before.

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## Avicenna

Not related to BAF but what a treat to watch this video.

Inside a Foxbat.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> Not related to BAF but what a treat to watch this video.
> 
> Inside a Foxbat.


A beast of a jet.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

F-6 enthusiast said:


> A beast of a jet.



What's most remarkable about the MiG-25 isn't its phenomenal performance (2nd only to SR-71), it's no more difficult to service, maintain, or mechanically temperamental than a "normal" supersonic fighter plane of the same era. 

Although completely different airplanes (MiG-25 a universal platform, recon, interceptor, even bomber, with a huge radar and armament, SR-71 being a no-compromise spy plane), the SR-71 is like a racehorse. With a lot of pampering, and under the best of conditions, she can outrun most other horses. The MiG-25 is like a warhorse, it'll perform no matter how nasty the conditions are. That's how the Russian design their hardware. The nastier the conditions, the more it swings in their favor. MiG-25s can scramble in the middle of a Siberian snowstorm, or over dusty scorching heat over the middle-east, without any kind of modification or pampering. 

Fun fact, MiG-25 is one of the very few aircraft that makes more thrust at a higher altitude than at sea level. At sea level, each engine produces around 24,000ib thrust. At each 2.5+ at 70,000ft+, they produce a massive 38,000ib+, due to its intake design 

Btw, if you're lucky enough to see it in real life, you'll be shocked to see how that huge chunk of metal even manages to fly, let alone cross the Mach-3 barrier! Look closer up, you'll be even more shocked about the quality of the welding, rivet joints, and so on. Yet they were tank-like rugged.

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## Michael Corleone

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> What's most remarkable about the MiG-25 isn't its phenomenal performance (2nd only to SR-71), it's no more difficult to service, maintain, or mechanically temperamental than a "normal" supersonic fighter plane of the same era.
> 
> Although completely different airplanes (MiG-25 a universal platform, recon, interceptor, even bomber, with a huge radar and armament, SR-71 being a no-compromise spy plane), the SR-71 is like a racehorse. With a lot of pampering, and under the best of conditions, she can outrun most other horses. The MiG-25 is like a warhorse, it'll perform no matter how nasty the conditions are. That's how the Russian design their hardware. The nastier the conditions, the more it swings in their favor. MiG-25s can scramble in the middle of a Siberian snowstorm, or over dusty scorching heat over the middle-east, without any kind of modification or pampering.
> 
> Fun fact, MiG-25 is one of the very few aircraft that makes more thrust at a higher altitude than at sea level. At sea level, each engine produces around 24,000ib thrust. At each 2.5+ at 70,000ft+, they produce a massive 38,000ib+, due to its intake design
> 
> Btw, if you're lucky enough to see it in real life, you'll be shocked to see how that huge chunk of metal even manages to fly, let alone cross the Mach-3 barrier! Look closer up, you'll be even more shocked about the quality of the welding, rivet joints, and so on. Yet they were tank-like rugged.


Seen mig 21 and mig 19 in ukraine so I can only imagine how huge that is

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## F-6 enthusiast

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> hat's most remarkable about the MiG-25 isn't its phenomenal performance (2nd only to SR-71), it's no more difficult to service, maintain, or mechanically temperamental than a "normal" supersonic fighter plane of the same era.


i read somewhere that the Foxbat required 5kg of silver to service the engines(when it needed to be serviced). It Managed to shoot down a USN F-18 with an R-40R missile.
Kind of sad how the MiKoyan Design Bureau is dead and being sidelined by Sukhoi


BlackViking said:


> Did u see his recent post where he said bdmilitary suggested Baf to buy eft ? 🤣🤣


Delusional.
He is behaving as if he is some Gov. Official. Seriously why would anyone do such a thing ? Why would a defense contractor contact some rando with a facebook page to sell their stuff to BD ? Please Look at the wording on this tweet.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434859428365291539

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## Destranator

ghost250 said:


> okey,al beruni !! hows ur crappy website doing?  bokachodar bachcha abaar aisos hoga marani khaite??!! lojja shorom tor jiboneo hoibo naa ..


@Bradman is not el-haguni. The usual grammatical cues are missing. The English is too good for this to be haguni.

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## ghost250

Destranator said:


> @Bradman is not el-haguni. The usual grammatical cues are missing. The English is too good for this to be haguni.


 no one excepts him actually uses his crappy website "global magi para " as a source ... bandor defense forum e jan,uttor pai jaben !!

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## Destranator

ghost250 said:


> no one excepts him actually uses his crappy website "global magi para " as a source ... bandor defense forum e jan,uttor pai jaben !!


Apologies, I stand corrected. 😁
He keeps sharing links to Global Defmarani Corp propaganda website. It's him.

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## Avicenna

The Yak-130 and M-346 share a common background.

Given that Bangladesh looks set to acquire "Western" multirole fighters i.e. Eurofighter, can Yak-130 be used for training?

Meaning can Leonardo modify the aircraft to make make it more conducive for training for Western types?

By this I mean software, avionics and cockpit interface related.

Thoughts?


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> The Yak-130 and M-346 share a common background.
> 
> Given that Bangladesh looks set to acquire "Western" multirole fighters i.e. Eurofighter, can Yak-130 be used for training?
> 
> Meaning can Leonardo modify the aircraft to make make it more conducive for training for Western types?
> 
> By this I mean software, avionics and cockpit interface related.
> 
> Thoughts?


Yes they can be configured to mimick Western fighters. If Irkut refuses to cooperate, BAF should reach out to Leonardo.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Yes they can be configured to mimick Western fighters. If Irkut refuses to cooperate, BAF should reach out to Leonardo.



I would be nice if BAF could replace the 3 lost examples and work with Leonardo to optimize the Yak to train future pilots for Eurofighter.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> The Yak-130 and M-346 share a common background.
> 
> Given that Bangladesh looks set to acquire "Western" multirole fighters i.e. Eurofighter, can Yak-130 be used for training?
> 
> Meaning can Leonardo modify the aircraft to make make it more conducive for training for Western types?
> 
> By this I mean software, avionics and cockpit interface related.
> 
> Thoughts?


i think it isn't necessary but it is optimal. 

see @The Ronin post regarding this issue


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> I would be nice if BAF could replace the 3 lost examples and work with Leonardo to optimize the Yak to train future pilots for Eurofighter.


BAF should divert every penny they have towards procuring fighters. The three Yaks can be replaced later.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> BAF should divert every penny they have towards procuring fighters. The three Yaks can be replaced later.



who actually makes procurement decisions?

why the interest in a two engined fighter over a greater number of cheaper single engined ones?


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> who actually makes procurement decisions?
> 
> why the interest in a two engined fighter over a greater number of cheaper single engined ones?


Prestige. BAF is not a professional entity.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> who actually makes procurement decisions?
> 
> why the interest in a two engined fighter over a greater number of cheaper single engined ones?




Simple at time of war range and loitering capacity matters and two engines are better than one.

BAF service and maintenance capacity is likely to be poor. We would be lucky to have 50% of our birds available at any time. Also how much trust would you put on BAF to be able to rotate and gets the birds up in air during conflict efficiently?

When quantitity is not a possibility quality is all you have.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Simple at time of war range and loitering capacity matters and two engines are better than one.
> 
> BAF service and maintenance capacity is likely to be poor. We would be lucky to have 50% of our birds available at any time. Also how much trust would you put on BAF to be able to rotate and gets the birds up in air during conflict efficiently?
> 
> When quantitity is not a possibility quality is all you have.



Don't get me wrong, Eurofighter is an amazing platform.

It's just that I was thinking about how BAF is going to transition into fielding a 5th generation type.

Are they planning on having three different platforms?

MRCA, single engine replacement for F-7BG/BGI AND a 5th generation type in time?

I just wonder how they plan on making that path to fielding a TFX or KFX or J-35 around 2035 to 2045?


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## Avicenna

Bradman said:


> You have made a great point indeed. Happy to participate in a sensible discussion.
> 
> Propaganda works to a certain point until your adversary realizes you’re bluffing. The problem with incompetent people is that they know they are incompetent and want to hide their incompetence through disinformation and propaganda.
> 
> Hasina misappropriated $126 million through defense deals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh files new graft charge against Hasina
> 
> 
> Bangladesh filed a fresh corruption charge against former prime minister Sheikh Hasina, saying she plundered nearly $100 million in state funds by buying a frigate from South Korea while in office, officials said yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gulfnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is in the same situation as the South African “Gupta Clan”. Bounce corrupt people captured the state of Bangladesh; In Bangladesh, it should be called the “Hasina clan”.



I am personally neutral on Hasina.

But stop polluting this thread.


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## Destranator

Bradman said:


> You have made a great point indeed. Happy to participate in a sensible discussion.
> 
> Propaganda works to a certain point until your adversary realizes you’re bluffing. The problem with incompetent people is that they know they are incompetent and want to hide their incompetence through disinformation and propaganda.
> 
> Hasina misappropriated $126 million through defense deals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh files new graft charge against Hasina
> 
> 
> Bangladesh filed a fresh corruption charge against former prime minister Sheikh Hasina, saying she plundered nearly $100 million in state funds by buying a frigate from South Korea while in office, officials said yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gulfnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh is in the same situation as the South African “Gupta Clan”. Bounce corrupt people captured the state of Bangladesh; In Bangladesh, it should be called the “Hasina clan”.


Raihan bhai ebar thamen. Onek hoise. Shobai jane Awami League chor.


mb444 said:


> Simple at time of war range and loitering capacity matters and two engines are better than one.
> 
> BAF service and maintenance capacity is likely to be poor. We would be lucky to have 50% of our birds available at any time. Also how much trust would you put on BAF to be able to rotate and gets the birds up in air during conflict efficiently?
> 
> When quantitity is not a possibility quality is all you have.


I would argue that loitering capability is more tied to servicability than service range.
Single engine fighters like Gripens and Vipers would be more servicable due to high MTBO and cheaper spares compared to white elephants like EFTs, Rafales or Sukhois.


Avicenna said:


> Don't get me wrong, Eurofighter is an amazing platform.
> 
> It's just that I was thinking about how BAF is going to transition into fielding a 5th generation type.
> 
> Are they planning on having three different platforms?
> 
> MRCA, single engine replacement for F-7BG/BGI AND a 5th generation type in time?
> 
> I just wonder how they plan on making that path to fielding a TFX or KFX or J-35 around 2035 to 2045?


EFT is fantastic no doubt but it cannot be your mainstay go-to fighter jet for rapid deployment, surveillance and and sustained air defence patrols.
BAF should quickly procure 3-4 squadrons of Gripens and/or Vipers and then think about EFTs if they can still find funding for it.

Fifth generation fighters are a waste of time: all cost, little benefit. USAF has almost given up on making F-22s and F-35s their backbone.


BAF should maintain a 4++ gen fleet for the next 5-6 decades and use the time to research and develop supersonic UAVs.

In fact I want to see BAF/BN invest in maritime strike UAVs along with unmanned refuellers. No country on Earth would dare enforcing a naval blockade on BD if this could be achieved.

I don't want to see a penny being wasted on 5th gen rubbish.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Don't get me wrong, Eurofighter is an amazing platform.
> 
> It's just that I was thinking about how BAF is going to transition into fielding a 5th generation type.
> 
> Are they planning on having three different platforms?
> 
> MRCA, single engine replacement for F-7BG/BGI AND a 5th generation type in time?
> 
> I just wonder how they plan on making that path to fielding a TFX or KFX or J-35 around 2035 to 2045?




I would like EFT in BAF but my comments were more to do with 2 engine fighter vs single engine fighters.

5th generation fighters for BAF when we dont have 4th generation is too speculative i think at this stage.


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i read somewhere that the Foxbat required 5kg of silver to service the engines(when it needed to be serviced). It Managed to shoot down a USN F-18 with an R-40R missile.
> Kind of sad how the MiKoyan Design Bureau is dead and being sidelined by Sukhoi
> 
> Delusional.
> He is behaving as if he is some Gov. Official. Seriously why would anyone do such a thing ? Why would a defense contractor contact some rando with a facebook page to sell their stuff to BD ? Please Look at the wording on this tweet.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434859428365291539



He’s a army contractor who sells rice and daal to the army. No joke


Avicenna said:


> I would be nice if BAF could replace the 3 lost examples and work with Leonardo to optimize the Yak to train future pilots for Eurofighter.


We probably won’t get any support from Russians if we mess with the onboard computers and Leonardo would probably not guarantee what we ask of them to do


Destranator said:


> In fact I want to see BAF/BN invest in maritime strike UAVs along with unmanned refuellers. No country on Earth would dare enforcing a naval blockade on BD if this could be achieved.


Perfectly said. Straight to the point. Too much bs on here

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> He is just following neighborly practice. Hero-Honda, TVS-Suzuki, Bajaj-Kawasaki were all Japanese JV's before Indians started calling these indigenous technology startups. Hell I even heard some Sanghi folks call the flying Samosa something made with 'indigenous technology'.


Bangladesh is full of these brands you mention. Cringed 😬

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## Bilal9

Michael Corleone said:


> Bangladesh is full of these brands you mention. Cringed 😬



They should slowly start imposing heavy tariffs on Motorcycle parts and CKD/SKD kits (like they use to screw together motorcycles from India assembled locally). There is hardly in value addition happening locally and this type of policy (sponsored by Indian Hero-Honda, TVS-Suzuki, Bajaj-Kawasaki influence I'm sure) will never encourage local parts motorcycle parts industry to develop.

Our people have to get jobs and they have to eat (better). Especially on Motorcycles assembled and sold locally.

Sorry for the off topic post.

I suggest similar policy (heavy export incentives) for all manners of mass-market aerospace products too that can be manufactured locally.

Indians have started manufacturing doors and small panels for small airplanes, also maybe seats. Mahindra and Tata are both involved.

Those can easily be made using our skills, nothing special about driving flush rivets. Gotta start somewhere.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Delusional.
> He is behaving as if he is some Gov. Official. Seriously why would anyone do such a thing ? Why would a defense contractor contact some rando with a facebook page to sell their stuff to BD ? Please Look at the wording on this tweet.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434859428365291539





Michael Corleone said:


> He’s a army contractor who sells rice and daal to the army. No joke



To play devil's advocate, DGDP regulations require foreign suppliers to register through local agents. I think Amra is simply trying to expand his business as a local agent.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> To play devil's advocate, DGDP regulations require foreign suppliers to register through local agents. I think Amra is simply trying to expand his business as a local agent.


Exactly

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> To play devil's advocate, DGDP regulations require foreign suppliers to register through local agents. I think Amra is simply trying to expand his business as a local agent.


Leonardo might be working with Bashundhara Group


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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Leonardo might be working with Bashundhara Group


Bashundhara Group is a customer not an agent. Given what Bashundhara R/A is like during the rainy season, helicopters just make sense.

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## F-6 enthusiast

interesting
UK to retire Tranche 1 Typhoons with more than half of airframe hours remaining (janes.com)


Different (recent) article.
from UK sees Bangladesh as "critical stability provider" in Indo-Pacific | theindependentbd.com
'' The two delegations renewed their commitment to combat terrorism, promote and protect human rights, and cooperate on aviation, maritime and cyber security. ''




strategic dialogue between UK-BD.
Bangladesh-UK strategic dialogue underway in London | Dhaka Tribune


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## mb444

Destranator said:


> Raihan bhai ebar thamen. Onek hoise. Shobai jane Awami League chor.
> 
> I would argue that loitering capability is more tied to servicability





F-6 enthusiast said:


> Guys
> UK to retire Tranche 1 Typhoons with more than half of airframe hours remaining (janes.com)
> 
> 
> 
> from UK sees Bangladesh as "critical stability provider" in Indo-Pacific | theindependentbd.com
> '' The two delegations renewed their commitment to combat terrorism, promote and protect human rights, and cooperate on aviation, maritime and cyber security. ''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strategic dialogue between UK-BD.
> Bangladesh-UK strategic dialogue underway in London | Dhaka Tribune




BD absolutely must stay away from these. Would be very expensive to maintain even if UK gives away for free. They offer no advantage against raffles and not much better than the migs we have. Better more Migs than tranche 1 EFT as they will represent zero upgrade in capacity for BAF.

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> BD absolutely must stay away from these. Would be very expensive to maintain even if UK gives away for free. They offer no advantage against raffles and not much better than the migs we have. Better more Migs than tranche 1 EFT as they will represent zero upgrade in capacity for BAF.


yea but what if they are upgraded with Captor-E (better than rafle ) + HMD and PGM capabilities ? maybe supplement the new (16) jets with old ones to increase numbers.


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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> yea but what if they are upgraded with Captor-E (better than rafle ) + HMD and PGM capabilities ? maybe supplement the new (16) jets with old ones to increase numbers.



Can not be done for various reasons.... these airframes are basicly garbage...
BAF should go for EFT trance 2..... to supplement it better to get more migs or something else altogether different....

EFT trance 1 is just not that great..... it was innovative when it was produced but trance 2 is the truely finished product. 

Trance 1 is too buggy and in many ways incomplete

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> Can not be done for various reasons.... these airframes are basicly garbage...


not sure how much the tranche 3 variants are going to cost ( unit cost), they will be cheaper to run than t-1
BAF wants $186 million for 16 jets not sure we can get the entire EFT package or 16 fighters with that money , so i have a bad feeling we might get Rafle


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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> not sure how much the tranche 3 variants are going to cost ( unit cost), they will be cheaper to run than t-1
> BAF wants $186 million for 16 jets not sure we can get the entire EFT package or 16 fighters with that money , so i have a bad feeling we might get Rafle




We wont get anything for £186m......maybe 2 eft tranche 2 at most.

Raffle will cost the same....


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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> We wont get anything for £186m......maybe 2 eft tranche 2 at most.


nah bro i was just saying the cost will be 186 million for each aircraft. 3 billion USD /16 is 187.5 ( I made a mistake there)


mb444 said:


> affle will cost the same....


French will take some losses, but will still manage to sell their fighters.


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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> nah bro i was just saying the cost will be 186 million for each aircraft. 3 billion USD /16 is 187.5 ( made a mistake there)
> 
> French will take some losses, but will still manage to sell their fighters.


Aah understood.... i think we can bring that price down, but if it includes weapons and incountry MRO then i think its a good deal .


If BD goes for 16 with MRO i think more will come.

I would like BAF to avoid the raffle. Between raffle and EFT i think EFT serves BD needs most.

For single engine potential western jets there is only grippen and F16. Grippen on paper is better but F16 is battle tested. Either would be great....but we should probably go chinese j10b/c as the low in our high low mix.

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> Aah understood.... i think we can bring that price down, but if it includes weapons and incountry MRO then i think its a good deal .


Agreed MRO plant is a must for us. About the weapons packages , i think we'll get some basic A-A ,A-G weapons in initial package. After that , order the munitions separately (1 year before delivery of the jets )

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Agreed MRO plant is a must for us. About the weapons packages , i think we'll get some basic A-A ,A-G weapons in initial package. After that , order the munitions separately (1 year before delivery of the jets )




I would suggest that we place orders of meteors alongside the jet and payment conditional on delivery of both.....

There is absolutely no reason to leave anything to trust. This is a critical purchase, BAF must have a plan for the entire lifespan of the jet and do everything possible to secure delivery of ammunition, parts and servicing. BAF needs to ensure strict financial penalties are in place for non performance. If GB disagrees BAF should walk.... it simply means the supplier is untrustworthy.

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## Avicenna

Given the RAF Tranche 1 that will be retired and available for re-sale as well the the German Tranche 1s, I hope BAF doesn't buy these.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Given the RAF Tranche 1 that will be retired and available for re-sale as well the the German Tranche 1s, I hope BAF doesn't buy these.




I do not think even BAF would be so dumb....but then again they have always underperformed even against the lowest bar..... good god i hope not.... heres hoping BAFs legendary skill for quick descision will help us dodge this bullet


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## Indos

Malaysia procurement is basically running based on what I have suggested for Bangladesh Air Force. Malaysia will start another procurement for MRCA when KF 21 is expected to reach mass production.

Current procurement is not for MRCA but LCA/ Fighter Lead in Training for 18 planes

https://defencesecurityasia.com/tud...ETCP6xfeXSijJ2mbmuxFmDI9rkSqCxL9mDuhZKSPQKo_O

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## Destranator

Indos said:


> Malaysia procurement is basically running based on what I have suggested for Bangladesh Air Force. Malaysia will start another procurement for MRCA when KF 21 is expected to reach mass production.
> 
> Current procurement is not for MRCA but LCA/ Fighter Lead in Training for 18 planes
> 
> https://defencesecurityasia.com/tud...ETCP6xfeXSijJ2mbmuxFmDI9rkSqCxL9mDuhZKSPQKo_O


RMAF and BAF are blood bothers with a shared disregard for national security of their respective countries.
Both suffer from ADHD when it comes to buying anything useful.
RMAF has made progress in recent years but the fleet is still quite pathetic considering their economy and geopolitical landscape.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> RMAF and BAF are blood bothers with a shared disregard for national security of their respective countries.
> Both suffer from ADHD when it comes to buying anything useful.
> RMAF has made progress in recent years but the fleet is still quite pathetic considering their economy and geopolitical landscape.



LOL.

Tell us how you really feel!

I agree though.

RMAF and BAF should BOTH be bigger and stronger than they are.

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> RMAF and BAF are blood bothers with a shared disregard for national security of their respective countries.
> Both suffer from ADHD when it comes to buying anything useful.
> RMAF has made progress in recent years but the fleet is still quite pathetic considering their economy and geopolitical landscape.



They are pragmatic due to their economic problem, they face slower economic growth if we compare with ASEAN countries like Indonesia, Vietnam, and Philippine. With this Covid pandemic, their problem is getting much worse, while Indonesia is still able to just post minus 2 percent growth last year, Malaysia economy was severely hit and posted minus 6 % growth in 2020. For 2021, Malaysia economy is projected by their Government to grow about 3-4 % due to prolong Pandemic situation where Fitch Rating even downgrade their previous projection on Malaysia into Zero percent growth this year. Actually I still believe Malaysia can get at least 3 % growth this year, but this growth is still not enough to bring back their GDP like in 2019.

On the other hand RCEP will get effective maybe around 2023 and most ASEAN nations inside it will try to strengthen their competitiveness since the competition will be more fierce than before. Any one wants to be a winner in this FTA framework, and it includes my nation, Indonesia. Indonesia is also pragmatic and focus more in bringing the financial healthiness into our economy after debt to GDP ratio increases from 30 % (2019) into 43 % this year ( end of 2021) due to Economic stimulus and Health/Social spending to cushion Pandemic impact. We have hard experience during Asian Financial Crisis and dont want the same experience happen again in the future.

This is why ambitious Prabowo plan on Rafale/F 15 EX/ FREEM get hurdles to be executed due to conservative and strategic calculation by our economic team (MoF, MoP, MoI). Not surprising that instead of ordering Rafale, our government choose C 130 J SuperHercules and additional T 50 Golden Eagle to be acquired soon. Hercules is needed because we only have 23 of them and many are already old while T 50 Golden Eagle is choosen since we are preparing more MRCA in the future and get at least 11 MRCA squadrons to fulfil our MEF (Minimum Essential Force) plan.

In term of MRCA, the highest possible acquisition is F 16 V for just 10-12 planes as our MoF only approve 1.1 billion USD foreign loan for this Jokowi final term (2020-2024). This is intended to make our former F 5 squadron get permanent fighters while Today they only can operate 3 SU 30 which is borrowed from other squadron.

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## Destranator

Destranator said:


> As for fighters, from what I have heard, 1 sqd EFT was almost a done deal. *However, intense US lobbying might sway the govt towards putting heavy MRCA procurement on hold and instead getting single engine F-16V's to replace some of the current trash.*
> I support prioritising single engine fighter procurement.



^^ Based on what I personally heard before, the below from Defseca may be correct on this occasion. I need further confirmation to actually believe:







​The Bangladesh Defence Analyst




Our sources in Bangladesh Air Force who are no less than 'Air Commodore' are pretty much sure about induction of ' F-16 Viper ' to replace F-7 fleet. To them, only a 'miracle' can make happen Gripen. The possible replacement will start from 2026.
After independence of 50 years, we are yet to be strong in diplomacy, yet to get more people in chair who thinks for their country. DEFSECA will not talk about Gripen anymore as miracle do not happens everyday ...
#DEFSECA #BangladeshAirForce #F16Viper #MMRCAProgram


​






__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/403749974517845

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> ^^ Based on what I personally heard before, the below from Defseca maybe correct on this occasion. I need further confirmation to acrually believe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/403749974517845



Makes sense.

A Eurofighter/F-16V mix would be a dream.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> A Eurofighter/F-16V mix would be a dream.


It's a deadly, unbeatable mix if you can afford it. Realistically speaking, BAF should focus on mutiplying its single engine fleet for now.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> It's a deadly, unbeatable mix if you can afford it. Realistically speaking, BAF should focus on mutiplying its single engine fleet for now.



Agree 100%.

Also, I wonder if BAF can arrange to send out young pilots to train from the start in the UK, Italy, US or Turkey?

Meaning a new breed of young airmen.

BAF seriously needs to upgrade the caliber of new members to man these potent and expensive platforms in order to use them to their maximal ability.

This is a potential crossroads for BAF and Bangladesh.

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## mb444

F16 from 2026 in my opinion is pointless. It can not evolve much more, its redundant technology. If is was to be bought now it would make sense.

J10B/C or TFX if it is ready would be the better choice.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> F16 from 2026 in my opinion is pointless. It can not evolve much more, its redundant technology. If is was to be bought now it would make sense.
> 
> J10B/C or TFX if it is ready would be the better choice.



Why J-10C over F-16V?

TFX won't likely be ready by then.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Why J-10C over F-16V?
> 
> TFX won't likely be ready by then.




F16 is a 50 year old design so feel J10c will bring new functionality to the table.

I do not believe Viper will be offered to BAF, at most C/D variant.

TXF i agree wont be ready probably before 2035. By that time possibly likes of Tempest maybe flying which would be a generation ahead.

I guess its my gut instinct that F16 older variant although takes BAF forward, it does not secure BD skies.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> F16 is a 50 year old design so feel J10c will bring new functionality to the table.
> 
> I do not believe Viper will be offered to BAF, at most C/D variant.
> 
> TXF i agree wont be ready probably before 2035. By that time possibly likes of Tempest maybe flying which would be a generation ahead.
> 
> I guess its my gut instinct that F16 older variant although takes BAF forward, it does not secure BD skies.



The only new builds are Block 70/72 coming out from the South Carolina line. (The one that Serniabat most likely visited recently)

So if BAF looks for newly built examples, its gonna be 70 or 72 depending on engine choice.

(The US seems to want to position the F-16V as its standard offering to allies/"worthy" nations.)

Yes, the F-16 is nearly 50 years old but so what?

It's gonna be a relevant platform for decades to come.

Either J-10C or F-16V is fine.

But given that BAF thankfully wants to transition to a Western sourced air arm, F-16V makes more sense than J-10C.

Politically, Bangladesh should be fine.

But still its important to get access to cutting edge munitions and not be limited to older generation ones. i.e Egypt and Iraq.

I think and hope TFX will end up with BAF but not for a LONG LONG time.

I'm gonna include 3 links below:









The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities


The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.




www.lockheedmartin.com













U.S. State Dept OKs possible sale of F-16s, missiles to Philippines


The U.S. State Department has approved the potential sale of F-16 fighter jets, as well as Sidewinder and Harpoon missiles, to the Philippines in three separate deals with a combined value of more than $2.5 billion, the Pentagon said on Thursday.




www.reuters.com













F-16 Fighting Falcon


The combat-proven F-16 has proven itself as the world’s most capable 4th generation multi-role fighter, serving as the workhorse of the fighter fleet for 30 customers around the world.




www.lockheedmartin.com





F-16 is an excellent choice for BAF.

The issue will be to get access to things like AMRAAM.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> The only new builds are Block 70/72 coming out from the South Carolina line. (The one that Serniabat most likely visited recently)
> 
> So if BAF looks for newly built examples, its gonna be 70 or 72 depending on engine choice.
> 
> (The US seems to want to position the F-16V as its standard offering to allies/"worthy" nations.)
> 
> Yes, the F-16 is nearly 50 years old but so what?
> 
> It's gonna be a relevant platform for decades to come.
> 
> Either J-10C or F-16V is fine.
> 
> But given that BAF thankfully wants to transition to a Western sourced air arm, F-16V makes more sense than J-10C.
> 
> Politically, Bangladesh should be fine.
> 
> But still its important to get access to cutting edge munitions and not be limited to older generation ones. i.e Egypt and Iraq.
> 
> I think and hope TFX will end up with BAF but not for a LONG LONG time.
> 
> I'm gonna include 3 links below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities
> 
> 
> The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lockheedmartin.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. State Dept OKs possible sale of F-16s, missiles to Philippines
> 
> 
> The U.S. State Department has approved the potential sale of F-16 fighter jets, as well as Sidewinder and Harpoon missiles, to the Philippines in three separate deals with a combined value of more than $2.5 billion, the Pentagon said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-16 Fighting Falcon
> 
> 
> The combat-proven F-16 has proven itself as the world’s most capable 4th generation multi-role fighter, serving as the workhorse of the fighter fleet for 30 customers around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lockheedmartin.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-16 is an excellent choice for BAF.
> 
> The issue will be to get access to things like AMRAAM.


F-16 is a combat proven, highly servicable platform. I do not see BAF settling for anything less than Vipers.

I am telling you, each and every fifth generation platform around the world will disappoint. Radar technology will continue to evolve, chipping away at the so called "stealth" the fifth gen platforms offer.
4++ generation tech offers more bang for buck and will remain relevant until supersonic UAVs take over.

I believe the chaos of 2016 and 2020 elections coupled with covid have forced Americans to start opening their eyes and pay more attention to politics and US govt corruption. The days of fooling the public to lure them into pointless wars are numbered. The military industrial complex might compensate for the resultant loss in business by paying off Congressmen to ease up restrictions on selling weapons to second-tier, non-NATO US allies like Bangladesh. It is not by accident that BAF is being offered Vipers and Apaches.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> The only new builds are Block 70/72 coming out from the South Carolina line. (The one that Serniabat most likely visited recently)
> 
> So if BAF looks for newly built examples, its gonna be 70 or 72 depending on engine choice.
> 
> (The US seems to want to position the F-16V as its standard offering to allies/"worthy" nations.)
> 
> Yes, the F-16 is nearly 50 years old but so what?
> 
> It's gonna be a relevant platform for decades to come.
> 
> Either J-10C or F-16V is fine.
> 
> But given that BAF thankfully wants to transition to a Western sourced air arm, F-16V makes more sense than J-10C.
> 
> Politically, Bangladesh should be fine.
> 
> But still its important to get access to cutting edge munitions and not be limited to older generation ones. i.e Egypt and Iraq.
> 
> I think and hope TFX will end up with BAF but not for a LONG LONG time.
> 
> I'm gonna include 3 links below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities
> 
> 
> The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lockheedmartin.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. State Dept OKs possible sale of F-16s, missiles to Philippines
> 
> 
> The U.S. State Department has approved the potential sale of F-16 fighter jets, as well as Sidewinder and Harpoon missiles, to the Philippines in three separate deals with a combined value of more than $2.5 billion, the Pentagon said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-16 Fighting Falcon
> 
> 
> The combat-proven F-16 has proven itself as the world’s most capable 4th generation multi-role fighter, serving as the workhorse of the fighter fleet for 30 customers around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lockheedmartin.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-16 is an excellent choice for BAF.
> 
> The issue will be to get access to things like AMRAAM.



I agree with every point you have made. F16 is a great jet.

Mine is a personal value judgement. Globally we are again moving to a multipolar world. US is going to resist that for as long as it can and i anticipate reactionary policies from them.

I would rather get our defense equipment from Europeans and Chinese because it will allow for more room for strategic maneuver vis-a-vis india.

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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> The only new builds are Block 70/72 coming out from the South Carolina line. (The one that Serniabat most likely visited recently)
> 
> So if BAF looks for newly built examples, its gonna be 70 or 72 depending on engine choice.
> 
> (The US seems to want to position the F-16V as its standard offering to allies/"worthy" nations.)
> 
> Yes, the F-16 is nearly 50 years old but so what?
> 
> It's gonna be a relevant platform for decades to come.
> 
> Either J-10C or F-16V is fine.
> 
> But given that BAF thankfully wants to transition to a Western sourced air arm, F-16V makes more sense than J-10C.
> 
> Politically, Bangladesh should be fine.
> 
> But still its important to get access to cutting edge munitions and not be limited to older generation ones. i.e Egypt and Iraq.
> 
> I think and hope TFX will end up with BAF but not for a LONG LONG time.
> 
> I'm gonna include 3 links below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities
> 
> 
> The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lockheedmartin.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. State Dept OKs possible sale of F-16s, missiles to Philippines
> 
> 
> The U.S. State Department has approved the potential sale of F-16 fighter jets, as well as Sidewinder and Harpoon missiles, to the Philippines in three separate deals with a combined value of more than $2.5 billion, the Pentagon said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-16 Fighting Falcon
> 
> 
> The combat-proven F-16 has proven itself as the world’s most capable 4th generation multi-role fighter, serving as the workhorse of the fighter fleet for 30 customers around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lockheedmartin.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-16 is an excellent choice for BAF.
> 
> The issue will be to get access to things like AMRAAM.



The only issue however, and a major one at that- can we trust US for supplies in the event a nut job in Delhi decides to make their dream of Akhand Bharat a reality and we are having to fight a defensive war. Especially now that US has made India one of it's lackey to counter China.

But otherwise I agree with you, F-16 is proven in battle and will be an excellent choice for BAF. It will keep the Burmese in check.

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## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> The only issue however, and a major one at that- can we trust US for supplies in the event a nut job in Delhi decides to make their dream of Akhand Bharat a reality and we are having to fight a defensive war. Especially now that US has made India one of it's lackey to counter China.
> 
> But otherwise I agree with you, F-16 is proven in battle and will be an excellent choice for BAF. It will keep the Burmese in check.



Why would India ever want to take over Bangladesh by force?

And if that were to happen, I would think and hope Bangladesh's contributions to the UN and world community would mean something.

As much as I dislike BJP India, I think any conflict is an almost nil possiblity.

And if it does come to that, well then its gonna be asymmetric all the way jungle war.

Conventional BD forces will probably be neutralized fairly quickly.

Also, I don't really think China would take up arms to protect Bangladesh.

I think Bangladesh is wise to diversify and source things mainly from UK, EU, Turkey AND the US.

I also think the Myanmar threat is understated.


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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> Why would India ever want to take over Bangladesh by force?
> 
> And if that were to happen, I would think and hope Bangladesh's contributions to the UN and world community would mean something.
> 
> As much as I dislike BJP India, I think any conflict is an almost nil possiblity.
> 
> And if it does come to that, well then its gonna be asymmetric all the way jungle war.
> 
> Conventional BD forces will probably be neutralized fairly quickly.
> 
> Also, I don't really think China would take up arms to protect Bangladesh.
> 
> I think Bangladesh is wise to diversify and source things mainly from UK, EU, Turkey AND the US.
> 
> I also think the Myanmar threat is understated.



I meant conflict in the worst case scenario. Will US supply us spares and armament in case we are attacked by India? I agree the possibility is extremely remote, but it will always will be there.

But you are right, conventionally we can't match up in terms of number and conventional war will be over within first few hours.


----------



## Indos

leonblack08 said:


> I meant conflict in the worst case scenario. Will US supply us spares and armament in case we are attacked by India? I agree the possibility is extremely remote, but it will always will be there.
> 
> But you are right, conventionally we can't match up in terms of number and conventional war will be over within first few hours.



India is not Australia and there is no interest for USA to help India and put arm embargo to BD if India/BD conflict arises. If india fight against China, then USA will likely help India since China is US rival.

What I see if India attack and even invade BD, there will be condemnation from whole World, including US and European nations and Muslim nation will impose embargo to India. No more oil and gas

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## Indos

mb444 said:


> F16 is a 50 year old design so feel J10c will bring new functionality to the table.
> 
> I do not believe Viper will be offered to BAF, at most C/D variant.
> 
> TXF i agree wont be ready probably before 2035. By that time possibly likes of Tempest maybe flying which would be a generation ahead.
> 
> I guess its my gut instinct that F16 older variant although takes BAF forward, it does not secure BD skies.



F16 is a perfect design for Non Stealth generation fighter. 

Just compare


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## The Ronin

Michael Corleone said:


> Amra khan’s nawabzada writing. Nigga didn’t know what Twitter is before I recommended he open an account in there



So he begs like this because of you? 😑 Why didn't he tag any Spanish stuff? Didn't know their ID? 🤔 14 gustir kaure to tag mara bad rakhe nai. 😑

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Indos said:


> They are pragmatic due to their economic problem, they face slower economic growth if we compare with ASEAN countries like Indonesia, Vietnam, and Philippine. With this Covid pandemic, their problem is getting much worse, while Indonesia is still able to just post minus 2 percent growth last year, Malaysia economy was severely hit and posted minus 6 % growth in 2020. For 2021, Malaysia economy is projected by their Government to grow about 3-4 % due to prolong Pandemic situation where Fitch Rating even downgrade their previous projection on Malaysia into Zero percent growth this year. Actually I still believe Malaysia can get at least 3 % growth this year, but this growth is still not enough to bring back their GDP like in 2019.
> 
> On the other hand RCEP will get effective maybe around 2023 and most ASEAN nations inside it will try to strengthen their competitiveness since the competition will be more fierce than before. Any one wants to be a winner in this FTA framework, and it includes my nation, Indonesia. Indonesia is also pragmatic and focus more in bringing the financial healthiness into our economy after debt to GDP ratio increases from 30 % (2019) into 43 % this year ( end of 2021) due to Economic stimulus and Health/Social spending to cushion Pandemic impact. We have hard experience during Asian Financial Crisis and dont want the same experience happen again in the future.
> 
> This is why ambitious Prabowo plan on Rafale/F 15 EX/ FREEM get hurdles to be executed due to conservative and strategic calculation by our economic team (MoF, MoP, MoI). Not surprising that instead of ordering Rafale, our government choose C 130 J SuperHercules and additional T 50 Golden Eagle to be acquired soon. Hercules is needed because we only have 23 of them and many are already old while T 50 Golden Eagle is choosen since we are preparing more MRCA in the future and get at least 11 MRCA squadrons to fulfil our MEF (Minimum Essential Force) plan.
> 
> In term of MRCA, the highest possible acquisition is F 16 V for just 10-12 planes as our MoF only approve 1.1 billion USD foreign loan for this Jokowi final term (2020-2024). This is intended to make our former F 5 squadron get permanent fighters while Today they only can operate 3 SU 30 which is borrowed from other squadron.


Thank God this economy rona dona has little effect on Pakistani defence matters.
I can see economy is major hurdle in making defence forces strong for many countries defence


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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> So he begs like this because of you? 😑 Why didn't he tag any Spanish stuff? Didn't know their ID? 🤔 14 gustir kaure to tag mara bad rakhe nai. 😑
> 
> View attachment 779277


I think it makes sense. You see, Amra says he asked Esrar to pursue EFTs so technically Amra is the BAF chief's boss. Since BAF, being the spineless entity that it is, has failed to convince the govt to expedite procurement of fighters, Amra as the boss has had to step in.


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> So he begs like this because of you? 😑 Why didn't he tag any Spanish stuff? Didn't know their ID? 🤔 14 gustir kaure to tag mara bad rakhe nai. 😑
> 
> View attachment 779277


Tran dan kormoshuchi 😂

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## Avicenna

Hopefully coming to a BAF air base near you!

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## Avicenna

Joy_Bangla said:


> When you see BAF choosing F16 over Eurofighter, you know they have done their homework with due diligence.
> F16 has been extensively used by Israelis and Pakistanis.
> F16s in RSAF managed to win BEST SQUADRON UNIT despite having heavy weights such as F15SG.
> Both Rafale and Eurofighter lost both Singapore and South Korea's tender to F15 because of fielding weaker radars.
> Now imagine what F-16V with APG-83 can do?
> 
> Only arm chair generals like Amra Khan will be shouting Bd needs Typhoon or Rafales.



Both Eurofighter and F-16V are great.

The issue is BAF needs numbers.

Not just a token number of expensive aircraft.

What is BAF gonna do when Myanmar introduces more Block 3 JF-17?

Potentially MyAF will have Su-30, Mig-29 AND Block 2 and Block 3 JF-17 in numbers.

Especially if they decide to assemble them in country.

16 Eurofighters won't be enough.







This is already in service. (Note SD-10 under the wings)

BAF is way behind.

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## MisterSyed

Buy Jf17 Block 3


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## Avicenna

MisterSyed said:


> Buy Jf17 Block 3



Never gonna happen.


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## MisterSyed

Avicenna said:


> Never gonna happen.


Why So?


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## F-6 enthusiast

Joy_Bangla said:


> APG-83


Agree with you . APG-83 is derived from the radars used in F-35 and F-22 and further improves on them. However the EFT can fly at a higher altitude where the air is thinner, supercruising at mach 1.X launching the meteor which has a greater range than AIM-120.

But yeah Block 70/72 will have better sensor fusion (for situational awareness) and and EW suite than anything burmese will be able to buy 😉

And we have other ways of managing burma Myanmar Rebels Damage Aircraft During Airbase Attack (irrawaddy.com)


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

MisterSyed said:


> Buy Jf17 Block 3


Yar ye indians wali harkatein na kia karo
Does even it make sense for them to buy thunder?

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## PoondolotoPandalum

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Agree with you . APG-83 is derived from the radars used in F-35 and F-22 and further improves on them. However, the EFT can fly at a higher altitude where the air is thinner, supercruising at Mach 1.X launching the meteor which has a greater range than AIM-120.
> 
> But yeah Block 70/72 will have better sensor fusion (for situational awareness) and an EW suite than anything burmese will be able to buy 😉
> 
> And we have other ways of managing Burma Myanmar Rebels Damage Aircraft During Airbase Attack (irrawaddy.com)



APG-83 uses similar technology to the larger (and far more powerful) AESA's on the F-35 and F-22, but it's mostly electronic processing equipment as much as I know. Similar processing speed, but raw performance, range, angular resolution, etc, will be noticeably less. This is mostly due to size limitations brought about by the F-16's airframe. Not only is the nose cone pretty small (and can't easily be upgraded, without offsetting the aerodynamic, mass, c.o.g.), but also the equipment bay to house the electronics/cooling/power equipment for the radar is quite limited. 

This is why the USAF has claimed the F-16 has pretty much reached its limit of upgradability. This is why they are considering a brand new 4++ or -5th gen multirole single-engined fighter, to make up the numbers.

Against the euro-canards, they don't have supercruise capability, which has a big impact on BVR combat. 

For defensive countries like Bangladesh, ground control (or hopefully AWACs soon) intercept plays a large role. You need to scramble fast and get higher than your enemy as quickly as possible, for the optimal BVR shot, as your BVR missiles will preserve more energy. 

The EFT is perhaps one of the most optimized platforms on earth for such a purpose. It has the highest sustained climb rate of any aircraft (bar Su-57) and is designed to excel at very high altitudes. The higher the altitude, the more kinematical advantage swings towards the Eurofighter's favor. No 4th gen based platform can pull 9G's at 50,000ft, or have the same level of supersonic agility at any altitude (with the exception of maybe the Su-35, due to TVC). 

A typhoon pilot once wrote how all 4th-gen based airframes (Mirage-2000, F-16, MiG-29, F-15, etc) were more or less very similar performance-wise. In order to tell their differences, you'd normally need a timing watch. But on the EFT, you can literally FEEL the difference on your ***. It's "quantum leaps" ahead on acceleration, sustained climb rate, and supersonic agility, despite appearing similar on paper. 

It's like the difference between a 1990s and a modern F1 car. May have similar horsepower, weight, etc. But modern F1 cars can take a corner flat out at 200mph, whereas the older machine would probably need to slow down to 140mph for the same corner.

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## Michael Corleone

MisterSyed said:


> Why So?


Because our adversary has em?


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

We have filled about 540 pages for new Fighter jet of PAF yet no fighter jet has come 
God knows how many pages BAF fanboys will fill

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## F-6 enthusiast

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> We have filled about 540 pages for new Fighter jet of PAF yet no fighter jet has come
> God knows how many pages BAF fanboys will fill



750 pages guzar gaye lekin MRCA naheen aya 😥😢😭

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## F-6 enthusiast

There is no hope lol @Destranator @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @The Ronin @Atlas @UKBengali @Homo Sapiens @Bilal9 @Avicenna


*AIR SHOW 2022 Postponed 






Bangladesh Air Show 2022 (bas2022.gov.bd) 

Notice “After months of detailed planning, coordination and encouraging preparation, we are deeply saddened to inform that we are postponing the ‘Bangladesh Air Show-2022’ due to COVID-19 pandemic situation. We would like to thank and pay our humble gratitude to each and every single one of you for your profound support. New date will be intimated in due course of time. Please wear mask, maintain social distancing, stay home and stay safe. 



cant even make a proper notice with seal. *

@PoondolotoPandalum proven right

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> There is no hope lol @Destranator @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @The Ronin @Atlas @UKBengali @Homo Sapiens @Bilal9 @Avicenna
> 
> 
> *AIR SHOW 2022 Postponed
> 
> View attachment 779531
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Show 2022 (bas2022.gov.bd)
> 
> Notice “After months of detailed planning, coordination and encouraging preparation, we are deeply saddened to inform that we are postponing the ‘Bangladesh Air Show-2022’ due to COVID-19 pandemic situation. We would like to thank and pay our humble gratitude to each and every single one of you for your profound support. New date will be intimated in due course of time. Please wear mask, maintain social distancing, stay home and stay safe.
> 
> 
> 
> cant even make a proper notice with seal. *
> 
> @PoondolotoPandalum proven right


Amra khan dream destroyed





so EFT not coming soon 😂

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> There is no hope lol @Destranator @Michael Corleone @DalalErMaNodi @The Ronin @Atlas @UKBengali @Homo Sapiens @Bilal9 @Avicenna
> 
> 
> *AIR SHOW 2022 Postponed
> 
> View attachment 779531
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Air Show 2022 (bas2022.gov.bd)
> 
> Notice “After months of detailed planning, coordination and encouraging preparation, we are deeply saddened to inform that we are postponing the ‘Bangladesh Air Show-2022’ due to COVID-19 pandemic situation. We would like to thank and pay our humble gratitude to each and every single one of you for your profound support. New date will be intimated in due course of time. Please wear mask, maintain social distancing, stay home and stay safe.
> 
> 
> 
> cant even make a proper notice with seal. *
> 
> @PoondolotoPandalum proven right



I'm not suprised.

But these fools need to de-link MRCA with this.

WTF does a pie in the sky air show have to do with MRCA?

For 16 units?

Come on get real.

Get to work BAF and make the deal already.

You are WAY behind Burma.

Have some shame, especially after 2017.

It's like complete imbeciles are in charge.

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## F-6 enthusiast

F-6 enthusiast said:


> stay safe.


Stay safe ? lol isn't BAF supposed to keep the airspace safe ?


Michael Corleone said:


> Amra khan dream destroyed


Visited his website as soon as i saw the news. Some pages Set to private (requiring password)
Monehoy thela dise . Bok bok bondho hobe at least


F-6 enthusiast said:


> detailed planning, coordination


''planning and coordination''

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## Avicenna

I'm actually pretty pissed right now.

If they fookin delay progress on this deal when do you actually expect to have IOC with these new birds?

I mean what the hell happens if the people next door decide some other misadventure with Bangladesh?

Did you people not learn from the humiliation in 2017?

Bangladesh has no deterrence.

BAF will be completely outgunned in any conflict with Myanmar.

Good luck with your 6 single seat Mig-29s.

And your WVR IR armed F-7 "stop gaps"

Myanmar already has its Grob 120s from years ago. 

It has taken the security of its air space seriously.

What has the BAF done?

Bought many trainers. (Which is of course needed)

Talked about an aerobatics team.

And now has planned and postponed an air show.

Make the deal and get on with it.

10 squadrons by 2030 Forces Goal my a33.

What is wrong with you people?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> I'm actually pretty pissed right now.
> 
> If they fookin delay progress on this deal when do you actually expect to have IOC with these new birds?
> 
> I mean what the hell happens if the people next door decide some other misadventure with Bangladesh?
> 
> Did you people not learn from the humiliation in 2017?
> 
> Bangladesh has no deterrence.
> 
> BAF will be completely outgunned in any conflict with Myanmar.
> 
> Good luck with your 6 single seat Mig-29s.
> 
> And your WVR IR armed F-7 "stop gaps"
> 
> Myanmar already has its Grob 120s from years ago.
> 
> It has taken the security of its air space seriously.
> 
> What has the BAF done?
> 
> Bought many trainers. (Which is of course needed)
> 
> Talked about an aerobatics team.
> 
> And now has planned and postponed an air show.
> 
> Make the deal and get on with it.
> 
> 10 squadrons by 2030 Forces Goal my a33.
> 
> What is wrong with you people?


its a tragic (cannot find a stronger word) that a nation born out of war fails to understand the importance of the military and national security priorities.
I know , i know ----the economy is a priority 
How long will they keep flying those Migs and F-7s that are obsolete ?

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> its a tragic (cannot find a stronger word) that a nation born out of war fails to understand the importance of the military and national security priorities.



I mean it seems there is lack of urgency, a lack of political will, a lack of vision and a lack of competency.

I as an American of Bangladeshi origin am ashamed quite frankly.

My security is ensured by the US military.

But for Bangladeshis, this is a travesty.

Bangladesh has NO deterrence.

And when Bangladesh was b*itch slapped by Myanmar in 2017, how humiliating was that?

Not to mention the tangible burden placed on the country housing these hundreds of thousands of people.

All of it was avoidable if BAF was a strong entity.

Now linking a stupid air show with a needed program?

Come on guys.

I get it you wanna show off your Golden Bangla to the world.

But lets face it, no one cares.

Sign the damn deal and get on with it.

And actually do things that matter.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> I as an American of Bangladeshi origin am ashamed quite frankly.


Agreed
The previous generations gave their all to carve out a state for us (47, 71)
views might be differ but I believe , We'll always be considered ''immigrants'' in our host nations because of our religion and culture.

The armed forces are there to safeguard our territory and the economy.
We need to have a well equipped air force, to complement the other services. Without an air force , the other two services will be exposed to threats and will not be able to carry out their tasks. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Fighters are not some luxury thing , its a necessity



Avicenna said:


> And when Bangladesh was b*itch slapped by Myanmar in 2017, how humiliating was that?


Mym did the same thing in 80s and 90s but in the end , the Rohingya went back to their homes because BD military was in a stronger position.
well at least the civil war in burma is showing no sign of ending.

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Agreed
> The previous generations gave their all to carve out a state for us (47, 71)
> (your views might be different) We'll always be considered ''immigrants'' in our host nations because of our religion and culture.
> 
> The armed forces are there to safeguard our territory and the economy.
> We need to have a well equipped air force, to complement the other services. Without an air force , the other two services will be exposed to threats and will not be able to carry out their tasks. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
> 
> Fighters are not some luxury thing , its a necessity
> 
> 
> Mym did the same thing in 80s and 90s but in the end , the Rohingya went back to their homes because BD military was in a stronger position.
> well at least the civil war in burma is showing no sign of ending.



"(your views might be different) We'll always be considered ''immigrants'' in our host nations because of our religion and culture."

I agree with this actually.

But it is also natural.

The last time I was in Bangladesh was in the early 90's.

I remember sitting at the Biman gate at Heathrow waiting for our flight to Dhaka. (I loved those DC-10s)

Even though I am on the outside completely Americanized, I felt a sense of familiarity and strangely fondness for my fellow Bengalis waiting there with me.

It was a similar thing when I met Bengalis in Kuwait when I went there to visit.

And in Bangladesh itself, I loved it.

To visit of course, not to live.

The point is, I have an affinity for Bangladesh and wish well for the nation.

And seeing this sort of nonsense makes me angry. (Planning to have an air show to make an announcement for 16 units)

At least as an outsider working with what ever public information we have.

I hope they just make the contract official now and make an announcement before this planned air show and NOT delay it.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> I agree with this actually.


Apologies , i will amend that. Didn't want to offend anyone by expressing my views.


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## Avicenna

I would say if BAF is serious, then they should take this opportunity and make the MRCA announcement sooner than Feb 2022.

COVID is gonna be around indefinitely.

No need to wait for an air show to address needs that are required now.

Also, go scour the nation and find young, intelligent men and recruit these kids to fly these and other things.

Improve the people in your organization.

It's a shame because there is no much potential in Bangladesh.

It just appears there is a lack of will or an inability to execute.

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## ziaulislam

Only two options
Western f16/gripen
Eastern j10/jf17

Third option: why does even bengaldesh needs an airforce when it has india to protect it


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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> Only two options
> Western f16/gripen
> Eastern j10/jf17
> 
> Third option: why does even bengaldesh needs an airforce when it has india to protect it



Why does Pakistan have an air force when there is your Iron bro ready to protect Pakistan.

Do you see how stupid your last post is now?

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## ziaulislam

Avicenna said:


> Why does Pakistan have an air force when there is your Iron bro ready to protect Pakistan.
> 
> Do you see how stupid your last post is now?


Who?
China never helped us in 1971 or 1998
USA bailed out 
Otherwise i would have agreed we dont need airforce


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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> Who?
> China never helped us in 1971 or 1998
> USA bailed out
> Otherwise i would have agreed we dont need airforce



You need to count your blessings that China improved their aerospace industry and the Russians released the RD-93.

Otherwise Pakistan would have been SCREWED.

I'm tired of the same crap coming from some of you guys....why does Bangladesh need an air force? Won't India protect you? You guys are traitors! etc etc etc

You have your problems.

We have ours.

Lets at least not bring each other down.

For each insult you throw our way, we can throw right back.

It's not gonna lead to any good.

Keep this in mind in the future.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> I'm not suprised.
> 
> *But these fools need to de-link MRCA with this.*
> 
> WTF does a pie in the sky air show have to do with MRCA?
> 
> For 16 units?
> 
> Come on get real.
> 
> Get to work BAF and make the deal already.
> 
> You are WAY behind Burma.
> 
> Have some shame, especially after 2017.
> 
> It's like complete imbeciles are in charge.


This is what I have been screaming about. BAF expects the likes of Boeing, LM, Leonardo etc. to come and beg for attention only to be able to sell 16 units as BAF does not have the spine to get the govt to commit to more at this stage.


F-6 enthusiast said:


> Stay safe ? lol isn't BAF supposed to keep the airspace safe ?



No the motto is to "Keep the Skies of Bengal Free (of fighter jets)".

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## ziaulislam

Avicenna said:


> You need to count your blessings that China improved their aerospace industry and the Russians released the RD-93.
> 
> Otherwise Pakistan would have been SCREWED.
> 
> I'm tired of the same crap coming from some of you guys....why does Bangladesh need an air force? Won't India protect you? You guys are traitors! etc etc etc
> 
> You have your problems.
> 
> We have ours.
> 
> Lets at least not bring each other down.
> 
> For each insult you throw our way, we can throw right back.
> 
> It's not gonna lead to any good.
> 
> Keep this in mind in the future.


Look bengaldeshi are not traitors they love their country
Bengaldesh like most of world is also not focused on wars as its neighbour(on ALL sides, bar small area of myanmar) is india which is very friendly with bengaldesh

So bengladesh doesnt need an airforce hence you will see nothing happening

China russia usa sweden france..we have brought stuff from all of them recently..so dont know what screwed means..pakistan would have probably bought f16, typhoon if china had nothing to offer ..both available for now..india is growing..one day it will big enough for it to block acess of weapons to pakistan (may be china will still be open) ..same is true for bengladesh..india will likley block weapons..bar china ...

But point is bengladesh and india are strong allies and bengladesh hence doesnt need weapons therefore has the lowest gdp spending on defense


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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> Look bengaldeshi are not traitors they love their country
> Bengaldesh like most of world is also not focused on wars as its neighbour(on ALL sides, bar small area of myanmar) is india which is very friendly with bengaldesh
> 
> So bengladesh doesnt need an airforce hence you will see nothing happening
> 
> China russia usa sweden france..we have brought stuff from all of them recently..so dont know what screwed means..pakistan would have probably bought f16, typhoon if china had nothing to offer ..both available for now..india is growing..one day it will big enough for it to block acess of weapons to pakistan (may be china will still be open) ..same is true for bengladesh..india will likley block weapons..bar china ...
> 
> But point is bengladesh and india are strong allies and bengladesh hence doesnt need weapons therefore has the lowest gdp spending on defense



Eh, no.

A couple of points:

Bangladesh can not take for granted its security.

Myanmar is openly hostile, with actions if not words.

India is a PM Yogi away from turning on Bangladesh.

I used to think Bangladesh was in a relatively safe neighborhood but I was wrong.

If BAF had any sort of real capability, Myanmar could not have done what they did in 2017.

Also, Switzerland is neutral and has for neighbors NATO nations. (safe neighborhood)

And yet they just bought the F-35.

So yea, Bangladesh needs an air force.

As for Pakistan:

We saw what happened post 1989.

During the 90's I feared for you guys considering the US embargo and lack of options.

And lets be honest, Pakistan is perceived unfavorably vis a vis India during this time and until recently somewhat.

So your options were limited.

Forget, F-16s, Typhoons, Rafales, Gripens or anything else from the West.

Russian options were unobtainable due to India.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) would love to hear your thoughts regarding Pakistani options during this time period.

If it wasn't for FC-1/JF-17, what would have been the plan?

Probably soldier on with whatever you had.

If push came to shove, maybe buy F-8M or JH-7.

Yea, if not for the success of JF-17, Pakistan was SCREWED.

Again count your blessings the Chinese were able to do what they did in regards to their aerospace industry and that Russia sold China those RD-93.

As for Bangladeshi expenditure on defense.

Yea, it definitely appears defense is not a priority for Bangladesh.

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Avicenna said:


> Again count your blessings the Chinese were able to do what they did in regards to their aerospace industry


Yes you are right.China has really helped us a lot in our aerospace industry.
It has one more aspect.aerospace industry has helped us a lot in designing our nuclear Missiles.Once it was time when our nuclear scientists were copying N.Korean missiles now we have a good pool of aerospace scientists for designing our missiles.aerospace industry is now backbone of our strategic weapons.again thanks to China.only one project brought so much for us


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## Indos

Joy_Bangla said:


> In this modern era, flight kinematics have little relevance. Western nations are moving more towards network centric.
> 
> Western Jet always tries to distance themselves and pick off enemies from far. Why would any pilot risk going into head to head dog fight?



You forget EW (Electronic Warfare), the more sophisticated EW development then the chance for dog fight using WVR missile and even gutling gun are greater.

F 35 is built where confidence level on BVR missile is very high, but later we understand the ability of EW to dodge missile is getting greater. This is why KF 21/IFX is designed as more agile than F 35


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## UKBengali

Joy_Bangla said:


> In this modern era, flight kinematics have little relevance. Western nations are moving more towards network centric.
> 
> Western Jet always tries to distance themselves and pick off enemies from far. Why would any pilot risk going into head to head dog fight?




That is not true.

Flight kinematics are still important as missiles need to have the maximum chance of being able to hit their target. The ability of an aircraft to get into optimal firing position counts even for BVR duels and that is where powerful twin-engine fighters like Eurofighter have an advantage over others like F-16.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> I'm not suprised.
> 
> But these fools need to de-link MRCA with this.
> 
> WTF does a pie in the sky air show have to do with MRCA?
> 
> For 16 units?
> 
> Come on get real.
> 
> Get to work BAF and make the deal already.
> 
> You are WAY behind Burma.
> 
> Have some shame, especially after 2017.
> 
> It's like complete imbeciles are in charge.


Waste 100+ millions to host the airshow alone 😂


ziaulislam said:


> Only two options
> Western f16/gripen
> Eastern j10/jf17
> 
> Third option: why does even bengaldesh needs an airforce when it has india to protect it


Looks like third option is what we’re going for


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## Avicenna

Joy_Bangla said:


> Firstly, there is negligible chance of BVR duel since most BVR missiles are long range.
> 
> Rapid maneuver are done to prevent lock-on not escaping locked on missile. AIM-120 can withstand +35G while most fighters puts up with 12 G at most. So they rely primary on Chaffs and EW suites not aircraft kinematics.



Simply put the faster and higher you go and release, the greater the range of the released munition.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Simply put the faster and higher you go and release, the greater the range of the released munition.



Also speed and manoeuvrability are important in both escaping and being able to dodge BVR missiles.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

Joy_Bangla said:


> In this modern era, flight kinematics have little relevance. Western nations are moving more towards network centric.
> 
> Western Jet always tries to distance themselves and pick off enemies from far. Why would any pilot risk going into head to head dog fight?



Kinematics will always be relevant as long as air-to-air missiles are deployed. 

The range and effective kill-zone of a missile is strongly affected by the speed and altitude of the launch platform. So it's always advantageous to go faster and higher than your enemy when firing a BVR shot. It increases the kill-zone of your missile by quite a lot, due to higher velocity. This becomes important for engaging maneuvering targets. You want your missiles to preserve as much energy as possible 

Also, supersonic agility is highly relevant to dodging incoming missiles and pulling off very complex notching maneuvers. Missile seekers use the Karmen filter to predict the velocity of the target (remember velocity is both speed and direction). The higher the velocity delta (speed + direction component), the lower the accuracy of the firing solution generated by the Karman filter. Remember, Missiles don't chase a target (at least not radar-BVR aam's). They fly to where a target is expected to be, as calculated by its inboard computer

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> Eh, no.
> 
> A couple of points:
> 
> Bangladesh can not take for granted its security.
> 
> Myanmar is openly hostile, with actions if not words.
> 
> India is a PM Yogi away from turning on Bangladesh.
> 
> I used to think Bangladesh was in a relatively safe neighborhood but I was wrong.
> 
> If BAF had any sort of real capability, Myanmar could not have done what they did in 2017.
> 
> Also, Switzerland is neutral and has for neighbors NATO nations. (safe neighborhood)
> 
> And yet they just bought the F-35.
> 
> So yea, Bangladesh needs an air force.
> 
> As for Pakistan:
> 
> We saw what happened post 1989.
> 
> During the 90's I feared for you guys considering the US embargo and lack of options.
> 
> And lets be honest, Pakistan is perceived unfavorably vis a vis India during this time and until recently somewhat.
> 
> So your options were limited.
> 
> Forget, F-16s, Typhoons, Rafales, Gripens or anything else from the West.
> 
> Russian options were unobtainable due to India.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) would love to hear your thoughts regarding Pakistani options during this time period.
> 
> If it wasn't for FC-1/JF-17, what would have been the plan?
> 
> Probably soldier on with whatever you had.
> 
> If push came to shove, maybe buy F-8M or JH-7.
> 
> Yea, if not for the success of JF-17, Pakistan was SCREWED.
> 
> Again count your blessings the Chinese were able to do what they did in regards to their aerospace industry and that Russia sold China those RD-93.
> 
> As for Bangladeshi expenditure on defense.
> 
> Yea, it definitely appears defense is not a priority for Bangladesh.


The PAF had the option to collaborate on the J-10 instead of the JF-17. Yes, the J-10 was a higher-risk and more complex project, but the rewards were much higher in terms of fighter performance and, potentially, building R&D capacity in Pakistan. In fact, by ordering the J-10CE, the PAF basically came full-circle. 

In the late 1980s, Dassault also offered the PAF the Mirage F-1's production line and a ton of ATAR turbojet engines. There may have been a scenario where the PAF was manufacturing the Mirage F-1 under license and, potentially, upgrade it with the RD-93, modern radar, BVR (R-Darter), SOWs (H-2, H-4, Ra'ad, etc). Sure, not as technically advanced as the JF-17, but we could've had this capability in 1999 during the Kargil conflict. It would've also bought us time to invest in something like the J-10.

However, in the absence of China and a strong economy, our options were basically nil in the 1990s.

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The PAF had the option to collaborate on the J-10 instead of the JF-17. Yes, the J-10 was a higher-risk and more complex project, but the rewards were much higher in terms of fighter performance and, potentially, building R&D capacity in Pakistan. In fact, by ordering the J-10CE, the PAF basically came full-circle.
> 
> In the late 1980s, Dassault also offered the PAF the Mirage F-1's production line and a ton of ATAR turbojet engines. There may have been a scenario where the PAF was manufacturing the Mirage F-1 under license and, potentially, upgrade it with the RD-93, modern radar, BVR (R-Darter), SOWs (H-2, H-4, Ra'ad, etc). Sure, not as technically advanced as the JF-17, but we could've had this capability in 1999 during the Kargil conflict. It would've also bought us time to invest in something like the J-10.
> 
> However, in the absence of China and a strong economy, our options were basically nil in the 1990s.


Pakistan ordered j10CE?


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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> Pakistan ordered j10CE?


More like J10C-P. It's still not announced officially but it's a done deal. With Indian threat looming, we need numbers and more robust capability. JF 17 BLK III needs off-the-self supplementary aircraft asap. 

In terms of one of our ex ACM (Sohail Aman), he rated JF 17 (BLK3A?) as 8 and J10 (C) as 8.5.

As for BAF procurement, I shall only say a bird in hand is better than two in the bushes. It takes years to fully operationalize and develop familiarity and tactics with a new platform. And even if you place an order today, it shall take 18 to 24 months, probably more due to COVID situation etc to produce BAF orders.

As a third person, I would dare say Myanmar with 5 yrs of operational experience of 4.5 Gen (JF-17) will fare better than 1 yr operational experience of Bangladesh's 4.5++ new platform. Forget India for now.

BAF should have insitutuional memory (through ex PAF) of the importance of airpower in conflict (1965,71). Unlike Pakistan, which suffered from WoT and natural calamities which disrupted both finances and concentration of inventory, BAF should have fared better. 

The good news is, you guys have ample training jets meaning basic and advance flying capability along with large quantity of pilots are available. It takes more time to make a capable pilot than operationalize a new platform. So all is not lost!

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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> Pakistan ordered j10CE?


Unfortunately, due to the our complicated relationship with U.S. IMHO, we have let go of any future potential F-16 procurement.





Can any Bangladeshi who knows Urdu translate the part from 2:42 onwards? Only main points.

Personally, if BAF can get F-16 BLK 70/72, due to different natue and relationship of BAN-US Ties,I would want you guys to go for that. Not Typhoon, Gripen or Rafale.

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## The Ronin

PDF said:


> Can any Bangladeshi who knows Urdu translate the part from 2:42 onwards?



Easy to understand. If i am not wrong they gave you condition to not to use the F-16 in any offensive. Even asked for an explanation in for February 27 incident.


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## PDF

The Ronin said:


> Easy to understand. If i am not wrong they gave you condition to not to use the F-16 in any offensive. Even asked for an explanation in for February 27 incident.


The former is correct, not the latter part. It's just unfortunate for Pakistan and U.S. to have different national interests. We wanted to be neutral and have good relations with both China and West. But when one warmly embraces and understand you while the other shuns you away and pick your achrival (India) as their favorite, it is natural to become closer to the one you get along with.


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## Michael Corleone

PDF said:


> Unfortunately, due to the our complicated relationship with U.S. IMHO, we have let go of any future potential F-16 procurement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can any Bangladeshi who knows Urdu translate the part from 2:42 onwards? Only main points.
> 
> Personally, if BAF can get F-16 BLK 70/72, due to different natue and relationship of BAN-US Ties,I would want you guys to go for that. Not Typhoon, Gripen or Rafale.


Urdu is comprehensible for bangladeshis but for those who don’t know 
Translation; The chief refused f16s based on conditions that went against Pakistan’s sovereignty 
Pakistan refused f16s on trials from US
Established First aerospace center in South Asia in kamra 
Dismissed senior officers on charges of corruption on projects related to airforce
Supporting widows and their children financially with money retrieved from corrupt ex officers 
Aviation industry has become advanced enough to be self sufficient in last two years 
Thanks to the guests, and best wishes..

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## PoondolotoPandalum

PDF said:


> The former is correct, not the latter part. It's just unfortunate for Pakistan and U.S. to have different national interests. We wanted to be neutral and have good relations with both China and West. But when one warmly embraces and understands you while the other shuns you away and pick your archrival (India) as their favorite, it is natural to become closer to the one you get along with.



What about Russia?

As much as I know, there has been a slight warming of relations with Russia of recent. Though there are some issues. Russia is still a major arms supplier to your arch-nemesis, and Russia didn't like the fact that your intelligence services supported militant activities in the caucuses (perhaps you'll disagree, but that's what the Russians think of you anyway, it's them you want to persuade) 

But that won't stop them from selling military equipment to you or work with you in Afghanistan. Though they tend to target countries that can afford very large defence contracts.


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## PDF

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> What about Russia?
> 
> As much as I know, there has been a slight warming of relations with Russia of recent. Though there are some issues. Russia is still a major arms supplier to your arch-nemesis, and Russia didn't like the fact that your intelligence services supported militant activities in the caucuses (perhaps you'll disagree, but that's what the Russians think of you anyway, it's them you want to persuade)
> 
> But that won't stop them from selling military equipment to you or work with you in Afghanistan. Though they tend to target countries that can afford very large defence contracts.


Pak-Russia relations are in works. It will take some time (years) but they are in good direction. We are having good relationship with them especially in military domain. But with their main partner as India who has long strategic and huge economic clout, and our past with Soviet Union, Pakistan and Russia won't have anything too valuable, atleast for near future. We do have robust CT cooperation though now. (Through RATS ==> SCO, and Druzbha Special Forces Exercises Annually and alternatively in our respective countries)

The Conflict with India is inevitable in the near future, Feb 19 was a reminder. Mind you, but India has a very strong military and I can not overstate that. It is only by the grace of Allah that we come out successful and safe. But we need to prepare all the time and next time, India will hit us hard. Due to short distance, it is difficult to avoid any damage. Pakistan needs imminent deterrence so that if we do get hit, we hit them harder.

We can neither depend on Russia nor U.S. And to be frank, not even China, but atleast the most close help we might get will be from China (thanks to us having perfect scores old relationship with China.

Lucky for you, BAF doesn't have the same issues as us with Russia and U.S. and thus, you should try to capitalize on that. And Even though China has helped Myanmar, I would still say you guys can have good understanding and manage China well for your benefit. Bangladesh should be more active both diplomatically and militarily with the these 3 powers directly and indirectly. Secure U.S. and you shall have Europe at your side too. Engage with more exhanges with China while carefully mantaining Indian ties especially in military domain. With Russia, you guys don't have too much of an issue.

And the good news is, despite political mess rn, the economy is good. You guys are in really good and better position.

Let's just say on intellegence point, Pakistan took revenge on KGB through Afghanistan USSR mess.




But, past is past, both Russia and Pakistan are moving forward. These things are part of life.


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## Destranator

BAF should closely monitor how J-10C performs with PAF. I don't see BAF being able to afford a sizeable fleet with Western jets alone. 
A combination of say 3 sqd each of Gripens/Vipers and J-10Cs would be good. This could be topped off with 1-2 sqd EFT for air superiority and maritime strike.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

PDF said:


> Pak-Russia relations are in works. It will take some time (years) but they are in good direction. We are having good relationship with them especially in military domain. But with their main partner as India who has long strategic and huge economic clout, and our past with Soviet Union, Pakistan and Russia won't have anything too valuable, atleast for near future. We do have robust CT cooperation though now. (Through RATS ==> SCO, and Druzbha Special Forces Exercises Annually and alternatively in our respective countries)
> 
> The Conflict with India is inevitable in the near future, Feb 19 was a reminder. Mind you, but India has a very strong military and I can not overstate that. It is only by the grace of Allah that we come out successful and safe. But we need to prepare all the time and next time, India will hit us hard. Due to short distance, it is difficult to avoid any damage. Pakistan needs imminent deterrence so that if we do get hit, we hit them harder.
> 
> We can neither depend on Russia nor U.S. And to be frank, not even China, but atleast the most close help we might get will be from China (thanks to us having perfect scores old relationship with China.
> 
> Lucky for you, BAF doesn't have the same issues as us with Russia and U.S. and thus, you should try to capitalize on that. And Even though China has helped Myanmar, I would still say you guys can have good understanding and manage China well for your benefit. Bangladesh should be more active both diplomatically and militarily with the these 3 powers directly and indirectly. Secure U.S. and you shall have Europe at your side too. Engage with more exhanges with China while carefully mantaining Indian ties especially in military domain. With Russia, you guys don't have too much of an issue.
> 
> And the good news is, despite political mess rn, the economy is good. You guys are in really good and better position.
> 
> Let's just say on intellegence point, Pakistan took revenge on KGB through Afghanistan USSR mess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, past is past, both Russia and Pakistan are moving forward. These things are part of life.



Eventually, Bangladesh will be forced to choose between the Western sphere or the ever-increasingly powerful Chinese sphere. It'll be a tricky diplomatic art to pull off. 

I reckon by the 2030s, China will be the no1 global power on earth, with an economy possibly TWICE that of the US in nominal terms (mind you, they only need to reach South Korean per capita level to have an economy twice the size of the US, easily possible, and maybe quite soon).

And I bet you, they'll achieve that in the most Chinese way possible. Without firing a single shot. In the best traditions of sUN tZ

Any political leverage India has right now when it comes to land dispute negotiation will vanish. China will be less compelled to play diplomatically or even pretend to. 

The west, which still has no realistic strategy to deal with rising China. The punitive actions they're taking now, have been predicted by Chinese planners decades in the past. They are more than capable of dealing with them. Like replacing the US as a major trading partner, within some of the most heavily traded regions in the world (like ASEAN) 

The west will eventually acknowledge the new global order and face the reality. They are huffing and puffing now, as do all superpowers once they see someone replace them. But eventually, they WILL have a working relationship with them eventually.

Even Western military power projection isn't what it used to be. War on Iraq weakened their position in the middle east and made their real enemy (Iran) far more powerful in the region. Afghan war... most creative way of burning $3 trillion. Syria, if it wasn't for Russian intervention, black flags would've waved over Damascus a while ago. Russia kept splatting every single one of "America's assets" in that theatre like they don't give a ****. They turned the status quo of that theatre. Not the US. Fall of Syria would've been America's final checkmate of the middle east. But that didn't happen. They called America's bluff. And show they can no longer go around the world completely unopposed anymore. 

China will try its best to stay out of any military confrontation, even for soft power means. Their strategy is much more economically orientated. They are already planning on using blockchain, advanced AI to control the terms of global finance (even competition) in their favor. They are just well ahead of the game. 

While I welcome better ties with west and western defense equipment, we need to also realize the very real possibility of the Asian Century. The world today is much different than it was even 10 years ago.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

Joy_Bangla said:


> Would like to ask you, why Americans are so stubborn for not using features like canards?
> When Europeans have used them but later abandon them on new Gen platforms and settled on sleek boring designs.




Quite simply, stealth. 

Euro-canard designs did not place as much of an emphasis on frontal aspect stealth, they are all semi-stealth airplanes. They rely more on advanced ECM/EW than low RCS as a defensive measure. 

It's a similar case with the Su-57. Russians explored a canard-delta design prior to the Pak-fa (MiG 1.44), which had phenomenal performance (over Mach 2.8, and said to be extremely maneuverable, especially at high speed), even higher than that of the Su-57. But its large frontal canards compromise the radar cross-section. 

But there is a reason why euro-canards are so widely used (J-10, RFT, Rafale, Gripen, J-20 (though not really a delta), MiG 1.44 prototype). They are optimized for supersonic agility, high acceleration, and supercruise. 

As for 6th gen European designs, like a tempest, etc, they are fully stealth airplanes, hence no canards. In fact, many of them don't even have tailplanes, including the "Checkmate" fighter. There's a chance they'll be equipped with TVC's, and use other aerodynamic trickery to achieve high agility

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## PoondolotoPandalum

Joy_Bangla said:


> The above only applies for older gen BVR.
> New gen BVR can fly at different velocity at different phases of flight.They also do tracking and re-tracking.
> 
> Then BVRs like AIM120 has multishot capability, firing first missile and firing second one with delayed response.



Older gen, newer gen, physics remain the same. The higher and faster you are, the higher the energy state of your missile/bomb


Joy_Bangla said:


> F16, F15 and F18s also did not feature canards, what are your thoughts on it.



Making delta-canards work is extremely complicated from a flight control & stability perspective.

Only possible with the advent of next-gen digital FBW from the late 80s. The flight control system of the EFT was a quantum leap ahead of any 4th gen FBW control system, for instance. It was one of the most challenging aspects of the whole program actually. Also, the EFT/ Rafale used more advanced computer-aided design and simulations, and to a much higher extent than 4th gen platforms. Which ment a much higher degree of aerodynamic optimization and refinement, than made possible during the development of 4th gen platforms. 

Also bear in mind, Europeans and Russians always placed a higher emphasis on acceleration and climb-rate, because their airforce was/are expected to operate much closer to the front-line, than US airplanes. Especially after WW2. European airforces like the RAF had to rapidly scramble to meet German threats. USAF operated from bases much further away. Hence they emphasized range/endurance over climb rate and acceleration.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

The Aim-120D comes with a dual pulse motor designed to extend its kill zone as much as possible. A large motor to accelerate it up to speed, and a smaller, long-burn motor, to preserve its energy. But it's still a solid-fuel rocket motor, and its burn time is measured in a couple of seconds, not minutes. And the more the missile turns, the more energy it losses. Ramjet missiles like the Meteor have an even higher Killzone, as it's powered throughout almost the entire duration of its flight. Ramjets have this amazing ability to produce quite a lot of thrust, with very little fuel 

Regardless, an Aim-120D fired at 50,000ft, will always have an advantage over an Aim-120D fired at 45,000ft. Especially if it was launched at a higher speed. You want to avoid firing from low and slow, as it severely degrades your missile's energy. It'll only work if your opponents are full or half a generation behind you at least. So a low and slow F-16 firing an Aim-120C7 can most likely take out a high and fast flying Su-27, firing a 1980s R-27ER. But it's much more difficult against a J-15/16 equipped with PL-15, for example. 

So the Eurofighter will always have a theoretical advantage on BVR shots over any F-16 variant, based on kinematics alone, assuming they're both equipped with comparable BVR missiles (though METEOR is in a league of its own). The F-16 would have to rely on tactics and opportunism, to minimize its disadvantages. But that may not always be possible.

You have to remember, the Eurofighter was designed with an interception in mind (primarily an RAF requirement, to intercept Russian bombers). It was designed to excel at high-altitude BVR combat. 

The Rafales in comparison were more ground-attack orientated, and of course, had the ability to operate from carriers. It has its own advantages over EFT, particularly in A2G operations. But virtually non in interception and BVR combat (though the margins aren't massive)

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## Destranator

Joy_Bangla said:


> I thought BAF sent pilots for training in China according to BDMilitary?


Sending pilots for training and monitoring aircraft performance over long periods are two different things. China is very good at suppressing information about equipment failures. We need to monitor the performance of J-10C with export clients who are relatively less adept/motivated at suppressing information.

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## leonblack08

Defseca claiming their "civil sources" confirmed the MRCA deal will be announced before Feb 2022.

On a reliability scale of 1 to poop, this smells like a fart.

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## Michael Corleone

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> large motor to accelerate it up to speed, and a smaller, long-burn motor, to preserve its energy.


But the missile will have the velocity of the fighter jet, why does it need a motor that brings it up to speed when it’s momentum is whatever speed the fighter is traveling when it’s launched from the get go? 🤔


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## F-6 enthusiast

leonblack08 said:


> Defseca claiming their "civil sources" confirmed the MRCA deal will be announced before Feb 2022


they will confirm it after the 2018 elections

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## Destranator

leonblack08 said:


> Defseca claiming their "civil sources" confirmed the MRCA deal will be announced before Feb 2022.
> 
> On a reliability scale of 1 to poop, this smells like a fart.


I am still waiting on the December 2018 elections to be over as Amra said BAF will announce the MRCA deal "already signed" right after.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Sending pilots for training and monitoring aircraft performance over long periods are two different things. China is very good at suppressing information about equipment failures. We need to monitor the performance of J-10C with export clients who are relatively less adept/motivated at suppressing information.



The truth is Chinese and Eastern combat training is nowhere near good as their western counterparts let alone the USAF,USN (which is light years ahead of everyone else). The training is very rigid and hierarchical compared to west.

This is a 40 min long video discussing Chinese airpower and its advances. The Guest is a RUSI think tank analyst. Discusses J-10, J-16,J-20, command and training , doctrine.
I urge everyone to watch the full video.

also see for example at 21:59 where they explain how the AWACS is used.
At 25:16 in the AWACS what they've done is put the regimental Brigade controller (who used to sit on the control tower, giving sequential orders to the fighter pilots during their sorties ). They've moved him to the AWACS. He can see much better what's actually happening but he still has authority to talk to his unit's fighters. He also mentions issues with coordination between ground based SAMs and fighters, Joint engagement zones.





00:00 - Intro 00:28 - Expert: Justin Bronk
01:02 - The Chinese (Army) Air Force until now
04:33 - Why should we care?
07:50 - The J-10: The Return of the Light-Weight Fighter(?)
11:13 - The J-16: The Best Flanker?
16:01 - The J-20: Stealth but not really?
20:52 - China overtaking Russia in basically everything?
27:22 - Crews and Command & Control
30:30 - How could China use their (Army) Air Force? 35:40 - Recommendations

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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> But the missile will have the velocity of the fighter jet, why does it need a motor that brings it up to speed when it’s momentum is whatever speed the fighter is traveling when it’s launched from the get go? 🤔





As BVR missiles typically have a cruising speed of Mach 4 and may be launched from a fighter at around Mach 1.5-2.

Yes, it is best for very long-range BVR shots to get as high and fast as possible to give the missile the maximum energy(potential and kinetic).

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## Avicenna

Joy_Bangla said:


> "Also bear in mind, Europeans and Russians always placed a higher emphasis on acceleration and climb-rate, because their airforce was/are expected to operate much closer to the front-line, than US airplanes. Especially after WW2. European airforces like the RAF had to rapidly scramble to meet German threats. USAF operated from bases much further away. Hence they emphasized range/endurance over climb rate and acceleration."
> 
> "The higher and faster you are, the higher the energy state of your missile/bomb". This probably was the case in the early 90s but not in the present day. BVRs are able to reach the intended altitude quickly.



Physics has changed from the early 90's to the present day?

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## PoondolotoPandalum

Joy_Bangla said:


> "Also bear in mind, Europeans and Russians always placed a higher emphasis on acceleration and climb-rate, because their airforce was/are expected to operate much closer to the front-line, than US airplanes. Especially after WW2. European airforces like the RAF had to rapidly scramble to meet German threats. USAF operated from bases much further away. Hence they emphasized range/endurance over climb rate and acceleration."
> 
> "The higher and faster you are, the higher the energy state of your missile/bomb". This probably was the case in the early 90s but not in the present day. BVRs are able to reach the intended altitude quickly.




Which will go further?

An arrow fired from a car going 100mph or...

An arrow fired from a guy going 50mph

Assuming both arrows are completely the same, fired by the same force, angle, etc 

This is basic high-school-level Newtonian physics of motion. 

Modern BVR missiles don't travel at the speed of light, constant speed no matter where its launched from. Until fighters field laser weapons (which is really, really long away btw), the performance of an air-to-air missile will always be maximized by higher speed + altitude.

A Eurofighter super cruising at Mach 1.6 is a much more lethal launch platform than an F-16V cruising at Mach 0.9 (typical F-16 cruise speed, without burners), assuming both fire the SAME missile (like Aim-120C7).

BVR missiles improved a lot, but they didn't improve to light speed level, where launching speed + altitude makes no difference.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Physics has changed from the early 90's to the present day?


Lol...I think he means inertial guidance, active homing and rocket propulsion tech of air to air missiles have improved to the point where there is relatively leower dependency of missiles on the altitide and momentum provided by the fighter jet itself.

On a seperate note, you guys are changing my mind on going all single engine in the medium term. The problem with EFT and similar fighters is flyaway and maintenance costs which might cripple funding for BAF's overall fleet expansion given how spineless the BAF leadership is when it comes to negotiating with the bureaucracy.
I am concerned that if the govt ends up spending 3 billion+ dollars on a squadron of EFT, they are unlikely to approve any further fighter procurement for another 10 years.

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

F-6 enthusiast said:


> The truth is Chinese and Eastern combat training is nowhere near good as their western counterparts let alone the USAF,USN (which is light years ahead of everyone else). The training is very rigid and hierarchical compared to west.
> 
> This is a 40 min long video discussing Chinese airpower and its advances. The Guest is a RUSI think tank analyst. Discusses J-10, J-16,J-20, command and training , doctrine.
> I urge everyone to watch the full video.
> 
> also see for example at 21:59 where they explain how the AWACS is used.
> At 25:16 in the AWACS what they've done is put the regimental Brigade controller (who used to sit on the control tower, giving sequential orders to the fighter pilots during their sorties ). They've moved him to the AWACS. He can see much better what's actually happening but he still has authority to talk to his unit's fighters. He also mentions issues with coordination between ground based SAMs and fighters, Joint engagement zones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 00:00 - Intro 00:28 - Expert: Justin Bronk
> 01:02 - The Chinese (Army) Air Force until now
> 04:33 - Why should we care?
> 07:50 - The J-10: The Return of the Light-Weight Fighter(?)
> 11:13 - The J-16: The Best Flanker?
> 16:01 - The J-20: Stealth but not really?
> 20:52 - China overtaking Russia in basically everything?
> 27:22 - Crews and Command & Control
> 30:30 - How could China use their (Army) Air Force? 35:40 - Recommendations







This is video by Pakistani channel in Urdu.here he compares chinese air force operational readiness and training by data obtained from various exercises and interviews.
Very short and comprehensive analysis of Chinese air force.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

Destranator said:


> Lol...I think he means inertial guidance, active homing and rocket propulsion tech of air to air missiles have improved to the point where there is relatively leower dependency of missiles on the altitide and momentum provided by the fighter jet itself.
> 
> On a seperate note, you guys are changing my mind on going all single engine in the medium term. The problem with EFT and similar fighters is flyaway and maintenance costs which might cripple funding for BAF's overall fleet expansion given how spineless the BAF leadership is when it comes to negotiating with the bureaucracy.
> I am concerned that if the govt ends up spending 3 billion+ dollars on a squadron of EFT, they are unlikely to approve any further fighter procurement for another 10 years.



That lower dependability can be counted on only if your opponents have missiles that are a generation older than yours. But If I'm buying new fighters, I want to get the max bang i can get for my money, and pick an aircraft specifically designed for the rapid interception, as my ariel doctrine depends on it.

Rocket propulsion tech have more or less remained the same. Solid-fueled rockets aren't very high-tech, whether they're on a2a missiles or space shuttle boosters. The difference is, older BVR missiles had a single short burn-high thrust motor. Now we have a dual pulse motor, a second long-burn but very low thrust motor, designed to extend range. AS fitted on AIM-120D and PL-15s. The METEOR uses ramjets, high thrust for very little fuel, to essentially be fully powered throughout its entire flight duration under most realistic circumstances.


And of course, microelectronics becoming a lot more compact. Which meant more space left for solid rocket fuel. And their capability. PL-15 has an inbuilt AESA radar.

Speed and angels' advantage will be less of a factor if your opponents have missiles + radars much older than yours. But that assumption can't always be made. Especially if you're purchasing something that's designed to stay in service until the 2050s. BVR air doctrine is pretty much all air-interception based. We're not India where we can launch fighters halfway across our vast country, supported by tankers, AWACS, ECM platforms, to deal with a local threat. We have no option other than point defense, given how small our airspace is.

In my personal opinion, EFT is probably the best choice available right now for BAF's MCRA requirements. Is it the best plane in the world? No. But it's probably the best plane available for BAF.

I'd prefer Gripen-NG over any F-16 platform for the 2nd tender, but it's probably not an option.

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## Avicenna

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> That lower dependability can be counted on only if your opponents have missiles that are a generation older than yours. But If I'm buying new fighters, I want to get the max bang i can get for my money, and pick an aircraft specifically designed for the rapid interception, as my ariel doctrine depends on it.
> 
> Rocket propulsion tech have more or less remained the same. Solid-fueled rockets aren't very high-tech, whether they're on a2a missiles or space shuttle boosters. The difference is, older BVR missiles had a single short burn-high thrust motor. Now we have a dual pulse motor, a second long-burn but very low thrust motor, designed to extend range. AS fitted on AIM-120D and PL-15s. The METEOR uses ramjets, high thrust for very little fuel, to essentially be fully powered throughout its entire flight duration under most realistic circumstances.
> 
> 
> And of course, microelectronics becoming a lot more compact. Which meant more space left for solid rocket fuel. And their capability. PL-15 has an inbuilt AESA radar.
> 
> Speed and angels' advantage will be less of a factor if your opponents have missiles + radars much older than yours. But that assumption can't always be made. Especially if you're purchasing something that's designed to stay in service until the 2050s. BVR air doctrine is pretty much all air-interception based. We're not India where we can launch fighters half way accross our vast country, supported by Tankers, awacs, ECM airplanes, to deal with a local threat. We have no option other than point defense, given how small our airspace is.
> 
> In my personal opinion, EFT is probably the best choice available right now for BAF's MCRA requirements. Is it the best plane in the world? No. But it's probably the best plane available for BAF.
> 
> I'd prefer Gripen-NG over any F-16 platform for the 2nd tender, but it's probably not an option.



Why NG over F-16V?


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## PoondolotoPandalum

Avicenna said:


> Why NG over F-16V?




Industry-standard modularity & upgradability, low opera


Avicenna said:


> Why NG over F-16V?




Industry-leading systems integration, upgradability, and modularity. This is perhaps Gripen's most outstanding feature and is something it's virtually unmatched in. Compared to F-16s, it has much more of an upgradability headroom left on it.

And it's a modern (relative to F-16) delta-canard design with some inherent advantages, particularly in acceleration and supersonic agility (F-16s, or any platforms of that era, were optimised for transonic agility, not supersonic). Which are bonus features. Especially when the avionics, weapons systems, ECM of both Gripen-NG and F-16V are very similar. In fact I'd give an edge to the Gripen, based on its ability to fire Meteors and the ES-05 Raven AESA. Which has some really nice tricks. Like an incredibly large scanning zone









Here is How Saab Gripen’s AESA Radar Sees the Unseen


One of the main reasons behind Saab Gripen's AESA radar fast 360 degree scanning capabilities is its repositioner or the swashplate.




www.saab.com





Essentially, it has a situational awareness capability that is somewhat close to that of airplanes equipped with multiple radars (Su-57, and the rear-hemisphere radar on Su-35).

To my knowledge, the F-16V does not have such a capacity. Oh and neither does it have an IRST, which is a nice feature to have. 

Gripen was always underestimated, but its performance on joint training programs, such as RED-FLAG, was rather outstanding.

Especially when operating as a RED-FOR team. BTW, red-for teams are always put at a disadvantage, they don't have the same level and a number of high-value assets (like AWACs and ECW platforms) the much more numerous BLUE-FOR team. So red-for gripes had much less support.

The main goal of such a scenario was to evaluate how the Gripen would perform in such a role. Everyone thought the simple Swedish plane would fall apart, but boy they were in for a rude surprise!

Gripens network-centric data-link system compensated for the lack of AWAC support, and get comfortable within the range of the enemy blue-for planes. On the first day, red-for Gripens got 10 kills, including F-16 Block 50+ and Eurofighters. And 0 losses. 

During that whole red-flag campaign, Gripens never lost a single plane, never failed a single mission, and never delayed a mission due to bad weather and/or technical problems. Unlike its F-16 and EFT peers. The only airplane that scored better than the Gripen, was the F-22. And even that, only by a tiny margin.

On more recent exercises, F-22 pilots have said if the Gripen were to use its ECM for real, they could get scarily close to them. Then there was a time three Gripen went against 5 USAF F-16s. And that result, after 3 rounds were, 5-0, 5-0, 4-1. The Thai's claimed a 4-0 kill ratio against Chinese J-11s and Su-27SK, during Falcon strike 2015. Which the Chinese never disputed

For a country like BD, which is extremely resource and geographically challenged, the Gripen is by far the best airplane on earth. But sadly, unrealistic

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## Avicenna

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> Industry-standard modularity & upgradability, low opera
> 
> 
> 
> Industry-leading systems integration, upgradability, and modularity. This is perhaps Gripen's most outstanding feature and is something it's virtually unmatched in. Compared to F-16s, it has much more of an upgradability headroom left on it.
> 
> And it's a modern (relative to F-16) delta-canard design with some inherent advantages, particularly in acceleration and supersonic agility (F-16s, or any platforms of that era, were optimised for transonic agility, not supersonic). Which are bonus features. Especially when the avionics, weapons systems, ECM of both Gripen-NG and F-16V are very similar. In fact I'd give an edge to the Gripen, based on its ability to fire Meteors and the ES-05 Raven AESA. Which has some really nice tricks. Like an incredibly large scanning zone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is How Saab Gripen’s AESA Radar Sees the Unseen
> 
> 
> One of the main reasons behind Saab Gripen's AESA radar fast 360 degree scanning capabilities is its repositioner or the swashplate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saab.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially, it has a situational awareness capability that is somewhat close to that of airplanes equipped with multiple radars (Su-57, and the rear-hemisphere radar on Su-35).
> 
> To my knowledge, the F-16V does not have such a capacity. Oh and neither does it have an IRST, which is a nice feature to have.
> 
> Gripen was always underestimated, but its performance on joint training programs, such as RED-FLAG, was rather outstanding.
> 
> Especially when operating as a RED-FOR team. BTW, red-for teams are always put at a disadvantage, they don't have the same level and a number of high-value assets (like AWACs and ECW platforms) the much more numerous BLUE-FOR team. So red-for gripes had much less support.
> 
> The main goal of such a scenario was to evaluate how the Gripen would perform in such a role. Everyone thought the simple Swedish plane would fall apart, but boy they were in for a rude surprise!
> 
> Gripens network-centric data-link system compensated for the lack of AWAC support, and get comfortable within the range of the enemy blue-for planes. On the first day, red-for Gripens got 10 kills, including F-16 Block 50+ and Eurofighters. And 0 losses.
> 
> During that whole red-flag campaign, Gripens never lost a single plane, never failed a single mission, and never delayed a mission due to bad weather and/or technical problems. Unlike its F-16 and EFT peers. The only airplane that scored better than the Gripen, was the F-22. And even that, only by a tiny margin.
> 
> On more recent exercises, F-22 pilots have said if the Gripen were to use its ECM for real, they could get scarily close to them. Then there was a time three Gripen went against 5 USAF F-16s. And that result, after 3 rounds were, 5-0, 5-0, 4-1. The Thai's claimed a 4-0 kill ratio against Chinese J-11s and Su-27SK, during Falcon strike 2015. Which the Chinese never disputed
> 
> For a country like BD, which is extremely resource and geographically challenged, the Gripen is by far the best airplane on earth. But sadly, unrealistic



Agree with this.

I never really got why Gripen is unavailable to BAF.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Agree with this.
> 
> I never really got why Gripen is unavailable to BAF.


I dont believe for a second that Gripens are unavailable for BD. It has more to do with lack of foresight of the dense BAF leadership.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Agree with this.
> 
> I never really got why Gripen is unavailable to BAF.


Bd wanted second hand and cheaper, Sweden said no. 
otherwise gripen is best bang for buck aircraft for bd


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd wanted second hand and cheaper, Sweden said no.
> otherwise gripen is best bang for buck aircraft for bd


That's ancient history. Nothing is stopping BAF from buying new or leasing used Gripens today.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> That's ancient history. Nothing is stopping BAF from buying new or leasing used Gripens today.


BAF is a faggot organization. They got piss for budget and piss for officers, it’s best to disband them. 
what pisses me off is they announced attack helicopter plans earlier and now army issued tender and will likely have the, sooner. It’s time navy and army take their air defence needs into their own hands. They have been poaching pilots from Air Force so not a big deal either.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> BAF is a faggot organization. They got piss for budget and piss for officers, it’s best to disband them.
> what pisses me off is they announced attack helicopter plans earlier and now army issued tender and will likely have the, sooner. It’s time navy and army take their air defence needs into their own hands. They have been poaching pilots from Air Force so not a big deal either.



It would be much easier, quicker and cheaper to install administrators from BA and BN and revamp the organisational structure and culture. This way the existing skilled manpower and infrastructure can be quickly reorganised towards building a lethal fighting force.

We also need to replace AFD with A Joint Services Command headed by a 4 star Joint Chief and 3 star deputies to streamline development and prioritise defence procurement for the three services. This organisation will continue to whip BAF in the *** even after the administrators withdraw.


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## PoondolotoPandalum

Joy_Bangla said:


> Nobody claimed missiles flies at speed of light.
> You are just putting words into my mouth.
> 
> BVR missiles can fly at higher altitude but have to compensate for range. However, BVR missiles of this era and the future will continue getting extension on their range. They already have have thrust vectoring functionality, higher velocity of mach 3-4 and multiple data-links for targeting.
> 
> According to your comparison between F16 and Eurofighter.
> F35s have poorer maneuverability , lower service ceiling and IAS compared to Eurofighter so I can assume that they are less lethal platform?
> 
> 
> And lastly, pilots will try to lose altitude when doing evasive maneuvers. The higher the altitude the lower your lift, you need to generate lift for rapid maneuvering.And aircraft is already at a disadvantage since it has lower thrust-to-weight ratio.
> 
> Please don't quote me further.



Most effective way to burn a missile's energy is by 1) asking it to climb, as it needs more thrust to increase the vertical component of velocity, 2) asking it to maneuver at low altitude, as air is thicker, hence more parasitic loss from drag

Therefore, it is always preferable to launch higher and faster. And an aircraft that gives you that advantage will have an inherent advantage if everything else were more or less equal.

Which the F-16V and EFT are more or less are. Though the EFT does have quite a bit more bells and whistles. But let's assume their weapons, systems, avionics, ECM/ECW are the same. Which aren't btw

If the F-35 wasn't stealth, then yes, it has a major disadvantage against an EFT. In fact it's questionable if its front aspect low RCS is enough to ever compensate for that. There's heated debate about the low RCS of the F-35 in the first place. But that's a different topic.

When we're talking about F-16V, there's not a single area where it has a substantial advantage over EFT. But EFT's kinematic performance, particularly at high altitude, is very, VERY significant.

For countries that place a great emphasis on point-defense interception, it matters. Especially if they're expected to fire the SAME kind of BVR missiles. But I hope BAF goes for MBDA Meteors


"They already have have thrust vectoring functionality, higher velocity of mach 3-4 and multiple data-links for targeting."

BVR missiles don't usually come with thrust vectoring, certainly not AMRAAM's, PL-15's, Meteors. Thrust vectoring are used on some short range AAM's, like the R-73/74, and the MICA, which is in between a BVR/WVR missile with fairly short range (for a modern BVR missile) 

Also maximum speed of all aim-120D variants is more or less the same, between mach 4-4.5. USAF recently claimed their max BVR shot. It was from an F-15, their fastest platform, flying at high altitude (and probably at high speeds) shooting down a nonmanuvering drone.

You can bet that range would've severly degraded at lower altitudes. A2a missiles are more effective up high because of low drag. One way to bleed a missile's energy is by forcing it to go DOWN, not up, as it losses more energy from drag, especially when turning. But this puts your airplane at a disadvantaged position also. So your opponents can take more shots at you, and you no longer have any altitude leverage and options.

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## BlackViking

Baf has secured the initial downpayment money for mrca program and infrastructures. Hoping for something good within next year

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## The Ronin

BlackViking said:


> Baf has secured the initial downpayment money for mrca program and infrastructures. Hoping for something good within next year



Source?

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## Avicenna

The Ronin said:


> Source?

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## Michael Corleone

BlackViking said:


> Baf has secured the initial downpayment money for mrca program and infrastructures. Hoping for something good within next year


Don’t get your hopes up. They’ve been securing this money since 2018


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## The Ronin

Joy_Bangla said:


> So will they continue procurement through tender or G2G?



G2G.



Michael Corleone said:


> Don’t get your hopes up. They’ve been securing this money since 2018



That's what Amra miya said. BAF asked money before this FY's budget.









২৫ হাজার কোটি টাকায় ১৬টি যুদ্ধবিমান কেনার উদ্যোগ


দেশের ভূরাজনৈতিক নিরাপত্তা নিশ্চিতে প্রণয়ন করা হয়েছে ফোর্সেস গোল-২০৩০। শক্তিশালী জাতীয় প্রতিরক্ষা ব্যবস্থা নিশ্চিতের তাগিদে গৃহীত এ পরিকল্পনায় বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীকে আরো শক্তিশালী করে তোলার ওপর জোর দেয়া হয়েছে। এজন্য বলা হয়েছে বিমান বাহিনীতে মাল্টি রোল কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট (এমআরসিএ) বা নানামুখী...




bonikbarta.net

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> G2G.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what Amra miya said. BAF asked money before this FY's budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ২৫ হাজার কোটি টাকায় ১৬টি যুদ্ধবিমান কেনার উদ্যোগ
> 
> 
> দেশের ভূরাজনৈতিক নিরাপত্তা নিশ্চিতে প্রণয়ন করা হয়েছে ফোর্সেস গোল-২০৩০। শক্তিশালী জাতীয় প্রতিরক্ষা ব্যবস্থা নিশ্চিতের তাগিদে গৃহীত এ পরিকল্পনায় বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনীকে আরো শক্তিশালী করে তোলার ওপর জোর দেয়া হয়েছে। এজন্য বলা হয়েছে বিমান বাহিনীতে মাল্টি রোল কমব্যাট এয়ারক্রাফট (এমআরসিএ) বা নানামুখী...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bonikbarta.net


I hope they don’t buy this upcoming MRCA because I bet you 100% we aren’t buying anything else for the next 45 years.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> I hope they don’t buy this upcoming MRCA because I bet you 100% we aren’t buying anything else for the next 45 years.


This is my fear - 1 squadron for 25,000 crore and then nothing for eternity.

Having said that I will take anything that comes.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> This is my fear - 1 squadron for 25,000 crore and then nothing for eternity.
> 
> Having said that I will take anything that comes.


That’s like 2.93 bln I thought it will cost 4 bln atleast for 15 EFT


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> That’s like 2.93 bln I thought it will cost 4 bln atleast for 15 EFT


Maybe they have promo codes

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## BlackViking

Joy_Bangla said:


> So will they continue procurement through tender or G2G?


G2G....baf has secured 1.1 bil usd for downpayment and infrastructure building from this years budget.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> That’s like 2.93 bln I thought it will cost 4 bln atleast for 15 EFT


G2G hoile shob shombhob. I agree not enough money for EFT. i think they will order the weapons package separately but it maybe wishful thinking.


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> G2G hoile shob shombhob. I agree not enough money for EFT. i think they will order the weapons package separately but it maybe wishful thinking.


Who knows maybe 16 f16s from surplus 🤡

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## The Ronin

BlackViking said:


> G2G....baf has secured 1.1 bil usd for downpayment and infrastructure building from this years budget.



That's odd, they asked only $739 million for down payment not for infrastructure building. What's your source? Is it credible?








Avicenna said:


> View attachment 780179

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## BlackViking

The Ronin said:


> That's odd, they asked only $739 million for down payment not for infrastructure building. What's your source? Is it credible?
> 
> View attachment 780333
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 780332


They need to start building infrastructures and need to send pilots abroad for training once they complete the order by paying the downpayment. Downpayment is not the only issue here. In total baf has secured 9100 koti taka or around 1.10bil usd recently.

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## Avicenna

Enjoy!

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Western fighter jet will not only bring very capable aircraft but also world class pilot training for BAF.PAF training is mainly American influenced which has benefited us in our wars against our enemy.

Ayub khan words: 
3A have saved Pakistan"Allah,Air Force & Artillery"

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## Michael Corleone

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Western fighter jet will not only bring very capable aircraft but also world class pilot training for BAF.PAF training is mainly American influenced which has benefited us in our wars against our enemy.
> 
> Ayub khan words:
> 3A have saved Pakistan"Allah,Air Force & Artillery"


PAF training in early days was from RAF, which is why they succeeded against Indians in 65.
Indians on the other hand, I don’t understand… why they **** up even though they also trained under RAF until independence


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## The Ronin

BlackViking said:


> They need to start building infrastructures and need to send pilots abroad for training once they complete the order by paying the downpayment.



They are already doing it and done it. Read the news, if they wanted money for infrastructures, they would've included it with it. Like others said, it will take time to receive the jet for some time even if we order this or next year so we don't necessarily need the money for infrastructures right now. It makes me even more skeptical cause no one else has reported it yet except you.


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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> They are already doing it and done it. Read the news, if they wanted money for infrastructures, they would've included it with it. Like others said, it will take time to receive the jet for some time even if we order this or next year so we don't necessarily need the money for infrastructures right now. It makes me even more skeptical cause no one else has reported it yet except you.
> 
> View attachment 780427
> 
> 
> View attachment 780428
> 
> 
> View attachment 780429


We don’t have temperature controlled hangar that EFT needs

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## F-6 enthusiast

PL-15E range at 145km , not sure under which conditions like altitude, speed, hot or cold aspect target etc. but some ppl on this forum (fanboys) were claiming this was some kind of silver bullet death star with 250km-300km range.

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## mb444

Bradman said:


> View attachment 780558
> 
> 
> The choice of word means Bangladesh Air Guard is not a good planner and certainly not a good executioner of a plan.
> 
> Meanwhile, Dhaka Tribune will no longer publish crappy articles from Ash Rahman aka Ashiqur Rahman aka Dr Mahmud Rafiq.
> 
> Editor Zafar Sobhan might be receiving a lot of complaint about those unsolicited articles about Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems. Ashiqur Rahman might be going to jail for identifying himself as an agent of Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems.




You get all that from a word.... and what is the source of your post?


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## Destranator

Bradman said:


> View attachment 780558
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Dhaka Tribune will no longer publish crappy articles from Ash Rahman aka Ashiqur Rahman aka Dr Mahmud Rafiq.
> 
> Editor Zafar Sobhan might be receiving a lot of complaint about those unsolicited articles about Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems. Ashiqur Rahman might be going to jail for identifying himself as an agent of Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems.


The above is pure conjecture and speculation. Dude, you just out-Amra'd Amra when talking about Amra!

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## UKBengali

Nearly 2022 and still no deal for MRCA.

BD got its as* handed to it back in 2017 when nearly 1 million Rohingyas were expelled to it.

Seems like a country that has little diginity here to me as BD with a GDP of 5 times that of Myanmar should be able to impose it's will on it with ease.

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## Michael Corleone

Bradman said:


> View attachment 780558
> 
> 
> The choice of word means Bangladesh Air Guard is not a good planner and certainly not a good executioner of a plan.
> 
> Meanwhile, Dhaka Tribune will no longer publish crappy articles from Ash Rahman aka Ashiqur Rahman aka Dr Mahmud Rafiq.
> 
> Editor Zafar Sobhan might be receiving a lot of complaint about those unsolicited articles about Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems. Ashiqur Rahman might be going to jail for identifying himself as an agent of Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems.


English linguist here everyone.

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## Indos

Bradman said:


> View attachment 780558
> 
> 
> The choice of word means Bangladesh Air Guard is not a good planner and certainly not a good executioner of a plan.
> 
> Meanwhile, Dhaka Tribune will no longer publish crappy articles from Ash Rahman aka Ashiqur Rahman aka Dr Mahmud Rafiq.
> 
> Editor Zafar Sobhan might be receiving a lot of complaint about those unsolicited articles about Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems. Ashiqur Rahman might be going to jail for identifying himself as an agent of Babcock international, Fincantieri and BAE Systems.



I hope at least in 2023 there will be BD Airshow. While in the process of waiting, BD government has an excuse to delay the MRCA deal until 2023

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## mb444

Indos said:


> I hope at least in 2023 there will be BD Airshow. While in the process of waiting, BD government has an excuse to delay the MRCA deal until 2023




I dont think they have never needed an actual excuse for delaying things..... their ineptitude has always been enough.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> ^^ Based on what I personally heard before, the below from Defseca may be correct on this occasion.


We've never lost a contract to a competitor - Lockheed.

it looks like lockheed martin representatives paid a visit to then Air chief in Sep 3rd 2019. Maybe it corresponds with your sources . He is a senior project manager at Lockheed.





Before this , he met the Italian Representative on the 25th of July. An offer could have been made (resisting the urge to make an italian mafia joke here)







Destranator said:


> I need further confirmation to actually believe:


i buy this story , given the timeline of the two visits.

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## UKBengali

Guys, none of us have ANY insider information and so best not to claim otherwise.

It is end of 2021 and going into 2022 and still no contract signed. It takes 18-24 months before the first planes are delivered and so the earliest delivery if order made this year is 2023.

At this stage I would not be surprised if BD actually has given up on having a competent airforce this decade and the blame lies squarely on the BAL government, as they can dismiss the leadership of the BAF at their leisure and appoint new more capable leaders.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> Guys, none of us have ANY insider information and so best not to claim otherwise.
> 
> It is end of 2021 and going into 2022 and still no contract signed. It takes 18-24 months before the first planes are delivered and so the earliest delivery if order made this year is 2023.
> 
> At this stage I would not be surprised if BD actually has given up on not having a competent airforce this decade and the blame lies squarely on the BAL government, as they can dismiss the leadership of the BAF at their leisure and appoint new more capable leaders.



As long as we have BAL leadership in charge, they are a proxy for India.

India will never want us to have air defense (or offense) capability. Period.

Bangladesh is a perfect vassal state to India.

Yeh Ghulami ka janzeer kabhi nahi chhutega....as long as you have an a$$ kisser party in power.

Also, we have to be in a much stronger economic position to challenge Indian status quo.

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## Avicenna

Haha Forces Goal 2030.

What a fookin joke.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> We've never lost a contract to a competitor - Lockheed.
> 
> it looks like lockheed martin representatives paid a visit to then Air chief in Sep 3rd 2019. Maybe it corresponds with your sources . He is a senior project manager at Lockheed.
> View attachment 780718
> 
> 
> Before this , he met the Italian Representative on the 25th of July. An offer could have been made (resisting the urge to make an italian mafia joke here)
> View attachment 780719
> 
> 
> 
> i buy this story , given the timeline of the two visits.


The next fighter jet order will be either F-16V or EFT.
If the government chooses to be extra accomodative, both might get ordered by 2025.

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## Avicenna

Its also annoying as fook to read the bravado on DEFSECA.

Every Bangladeshi should be embarrassed at the state of affairs.

Haha Happy 50th Anniversary BAF!

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> The next fighter jet order will be either F-16V or EFT.
> If the government chooses to be extra accomodative, both might get ordered by 2025.



2025 ? 1 year after that you can possibly order 60 million USD 4.5 generation fighter that can be upgraded into 5 and even possibly 6 generation fighter inshaAllah......






I will keep influencing BD Gov that I believe pay attention on this site ( this is why they banning it in BD) in order to serve both long term BD and Indonesia interest...........

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> 2023


EFT? Forget about it. Dates pushed back to 2025 at the earliest. Ie to say EFT is becoming a pipe dream


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> EFT? Forget about it. Dates pushed back to 2025 at the earliest. Ie to say EFT is becoming a pipe dream




EFT will not be available till 2025 at least but the F-16V could be.

Anyway I think we will not see a contract signed this year and so the point is moot.


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> EFT will not be available till 2025 at least but the F-16V could be.
> 
> Anyway I think we will not see a contract signed this year and so the point is moot.


Yeah. I don’t expect any orders until 2025 at this point. 
land if Lockheed is lobbying in bd. They might end up shoving f16s down our throat

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## The Ronin

BAF has received the first batch of four Mig-29BM from Belarus.

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> EFT? Forget about it. Dates pushed back to 2025 at the earliest. Ie to say EFT is becoming a pipe dream



Where is @Arthur?

He pretty much said this years ago.


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## Avicenna

Enjoy!






The people who serve in BAF deserve better.

That single Mig-29 is 12% of your 4th gen fleet.

Think about that.

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Avicenna said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people who serve in BAF deserve better.
> 
> That single Mig-29 is 12% of your 4th gen fleet.
> 
> Think about that.


I am telling you BAF is planning to buy 5th gen fighter jet directly as they don't want to waste money on these bloody 4.5th gen.fighters .
now stay calm and watch the show.

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> Where is @Arthur?
> 
> He pretty much said this years ago.


Yeah I thought he was being pessimistic but after I’ve seen Germany place new orders and then Spain I pretty much gave upon EFT


Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> I am telling you BAF is planning to buy 5th gen fighter jet directly as they don't want to waste money on these bloody 4.5th gen.fighters .
> now stay calm and watch the show.


Defseca: BAF buys f22 raptors as america sends them to retirement 🤡

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## Michael Corleone

guys, y’all reckon that’s an air refueling probe on the mig 29? Wasnt There before
The probe should be part of BM upgrades but I was told we’re omitting that feature? Photo says otherwise
Edit: looks like some sort of speed sensor in other photos. Not refueling probe

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> View attachment 781041
> 
> View attachment 781042
> 
> guys, y’all reckon that’s an air refueling probe on the mig 29? Wasnt There before
> The probe should be part of BM upgrades but I was told we’re omitting that feature? Photo says otherwise
> Edit: looks like some sort of speed sensor in other photos. Not refueling probe



NOT a fuel probe.

What I'm really waiting for is some pics of R-77 or Kh-31 under one of these bad boys.

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## F-6 enthusiast

We might in the process of Signing GSOMIA or ACSA or Both.

This is a daily star Article from 2019 (more reliable than Defseca) and the sources are US diplomats.


*US wants 2 defence deals with Bangladesh*
US wants 2 defence deals with Bangladesh | undefined (thedailystar.net)




Diplomatic Correspondent
Fri Oct 18, 2019 03:20 AM

The US wants to sign two defence agreements with Bangladesh as the latter is seeking to buy advanced equipment from the US as part of its goal to modernise the military by 2030.
The agreements are General Security of Military Information Agreement (GSOMIA) and the Acquisition Cross-Servicing Agreement (ACSA).


US officials termed them “foundational agreements” meant to strengthen defence relationship between two countries.
*The move comes as Bangladesh last year sought to buy advanced military equipment, said US officials during a media briefing in the city yesterday.*
“We are currently working with the government of Bangladesh to conclude certain foundational defence agreements … these are essential to enabling a close relationship, expanding opportunities for defence trade, information sharing, and military-to-military cooperation between our two countries,” said a US official wishing not to be named.

According to the official, GSOMIA is a foundational government-to-government agreement that permits greater collaboration.

“It’s a reciprocal legally-binding agreement that ensures governments understand and commit to protecting classified military information,” said an official. 
The GSOMIA does not obligate governments to share classified information or material. It ensures protection of the information shared by partner governments, the official said.
The US has GSOMIA agreements with 76 countries, including some countries in South Asia.
“As our relationship continues to grow with Bangladesh, GSOMIA is essential to enabling the cooperation we both seek,” the official added.
For foreign military sales or GSOMIA, US security authorities will work closely with Bangladesh’s security authorities to develop a plan and standard operating procedure to implement required measures for making sure classified information will be protected in Bangladesh.
“It’s two way. We also commit the same kind of protection of Bangladesh’s military information.”
*Explaining the ACSA agreement, a US official said its purpose was to allow US and partner nations’ forces procure and pay for common types of supplies and services. 
It could cover everything from food, water, clothing, transportation, training, petroleum, ammunition, maintenance to medical services. 
For example, the US official said, if a US ship arrived at Chattogram and needed fuel, it could buy it from Bangladesh government and pay in cash. The US ship could also pay through similar amount in fuel to a Bangladeshi ship in other parts of the world.
“Its purpose is to make it easy for our militaries to have better cooperation. ... It’s to make things easy,” the official said.*
It could facilitate transfer of fuel from Bangladesh military to visiting US ship participating in annual exercise. *It could also improve US’s ability to respond to any potential humanitarian or natural disaster and facilitate the transfer of fuel from US military to Bangladeshi naval ships outside normal geographical area, an official added. *
*“The agreement does not in anyway commit a partner nation to military action nor does it authorise stationing of ships, aircraft or military personnel in foreign countries. It only serves to simplify procurement agreement, logistic support, supplies, and services between partner forces,” the official added. 
For practical purposes, the US has ACSA agreement with over a hundred countries throughout the globe, including India and Sri Lanka.*

Asked if the defence agreements were meant to promote Indo-Pacific Strategy (IPS) or counter China, the US official said it was not about IPS or countering China and that they were trying to respond to the requests from Bangladesh.

US and Bangladesh have military cooperation, including that for training of Bangladeshi peacekeepers, counter-terrorism exercises, disaster response, and exchange of trainings.
Last year, the US provided $5.3 million to cover the total cost of procurement and delivery of five Metal Shark boats to support the maritime security objectives of Bangladesh Navy. 

The US also provided $3.3 million last year to send 233 members of the Bangladesh military to attend various military professionalisation courses within the US and the wider Indo-Pacific region, another US official said.
“We desire to support the Bangladesh Military Forces Goal 2030, as Bangladesh seeks to modernise its military equipment.”

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## The Ronin

Clear picture of Mig-29BM. Looking good in the sunlight.








Michael Corleone said:


> We don’t have temperature controlled hangar that EFT needs



Still you don't need the money right now if your timeline is 2025.



> Bangladesh is a perfect vassal state to India.



Says the Bihari of perfect vassal state to China. Can this SoB tell us what Golapi did to solve any Indo-BD issue? She and Billy's whore mother was probably not kissing India's *** but definitely giving BJ to you-know-who, just like they did in the cantonment in 1971.

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## Michael Corleone

The Ronin said:


> Still you don't need the money right now if your timeline is 2025


🤷🏻‍♂️😵‍💫


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## The Ronin

Yet the bastard here has the audacity to blame BAL for BAF when his sugar daddy and Golapi fucked up BAF twice.














অঝোরে কাঁদলেন মুক্তিযোদ্ধার সন্তানরা, চাইলেন জিয়ার মরণোত্তর বিচার


১৯৭৭ সালের ২ অক্টোবর তথাকথিত বিদ্রোহ দমনের নামে সেনা ও বিমান বাহিনীর সদস্যদের ফাঁসি, কারাদণ্ড ও চাকরিচ্যুতির ঘটনায় ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত হয়েছে অসংখ্য পরিবার। এরপর...




www.banglatribune.com













__ https://www.facebook.com/defence.research.org/posts/2621871238121224

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Yet the bastard here has the audacity to blame BAL for BAF when his sugar daddy and Golapi fucked up BAF twice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> অঝোরে কাঁদলেন মুক্তিযোদ্ধার সন্তানরা, চাইলেন জিয়ার মরণোত্তর বিচার
> 
> 
> ১৯৭৭ সালের ২ অক্টোবর তথাকথিত বিদ্রোহ দমনের নামে সেনা ও বিমান বাহিনীর সদস্যদের ফাঁসি, কারাদণ্ড ও চাকরিচ্যুতির ঘটনায় ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত হয়েছে অসংখ্য পরিবার। এরপর...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.banglatribune.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 781561
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/defence.research.org/posts/2621871238121224


Zia/BNP certainly did a lot of damage to BAF in the 70s and early 2000s which has contributed to the pathetic organisational culture and leadership that still remain to this day.
BAF needs full revamp with administration from BA and BN and oversight from a Joint Services Command to undo the damage.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Zia/BNP certainly did a lot of damage to BAF in the 70s and early 2000s which has contributed to the pathetic organisational culture and leadership that still remain to this day.
> BAF needs full revamp with administration from BA and BN and oversight from a Joint Services Command to undo the damage.




Still BAL has been in power now for 12 years, BNP has not been in power for 14 years and so 95% of the fault is now with BAL.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Still BAL has been in power now for 12 years, BNP has not been in power for 14 years and so 95% of the fault is now with BAL.


Certainly BAL is responsible for inaction in the 12 years. The main problem is, our politicians have little clue about national security. They rely on government organisations to make their cases for prioitising their funding - an activity BAF sucks at.
The PM occupies the Defence Minister's portfolio which prevents a defence expert from taking charge. On top of that is the lack of integration of the three forces. There is no military person with the authority to lead the armed forces under a unified command. This has resulted in lack of streamlining and prioritisation of defence procurement. BA and BN being strong organisations are able to get what they want out of the govt while BAF being the pathetic entity that it is continues to thumbtwiddle as there is no outside force within the government batting in their favour.
I have said this many times before:
A Joint Services Command headed by a 4-star officer, deputied by three star liason officers, should be formed with authority to determine priorities, streamline procurement and training and also govern major Defence R&D activities.
Upon formation, their first order of priority should be to install administrators from BA and BN into BAF to revamp the organisation and force BAF to order sufficient MRCAs.
By the time the MRCAs are all delivered, the revamp should be complete.

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## Indos



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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> Still BAL has been in power now for 12 years, BNP has not been in power for 14 years and so 95% of the fault is now with BAL.



Yeah right. BAL has 95% of the fault cause BAF still didn't order the MRCA, other things they bought in 12 years don't matter. The moment they order MRCA, the percentage will drop like a rock.

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Destranator said:


> I have said this many times before:
> A Joint Services Command


So Joint services command does not exist in BD armed forces? Just hilarious

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> Yeah right. BAL has 95% of the fault cause BAF still didn't order the MRCA, other things they bought in 12 years don't matter. The moment they order MRCA, the percentage will drop like a rock.


Exactly. I would put the fault at 60:40 titling towards BAF.
BAF is at fault because they have failed to prioritise MRCA procurement and make their case strongly enough to the govt. They cry about not being able to do enough during the 2017 Rohingya crisis yet not person in top leadership resigned back then. If BAF had any spine they would be all hands on deck scrambling all over the world to assess fighter jets and get some on lease until new builds are ordered and delivered. Instead they find resources to waste on arranging an aerial circus in 2022.

The govt is at fault as the buck stops with the cabinet.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Exactly. I would put the fault at 60:40 titling towards BAF.
> BAF is at fault because they have failed to prioritise MRCA procurement and make their case strongly enough to the govt. They cry about not being able to do enough during the 2017 Rohingya crisis yet not person in top leadership resigned back then. If BAF had any spine they would be all hands on deck scrambling all over the world to assess fighter jets and get some on lease until new builds are ordered and delivered. Instead they find resources to waste on arranging an aerial circus in 2022.
> 
> The govt is at fault as the buck stops with the cabinet.



Your statement is contradictory as it blames BAF more but then it says the buck stops with the govt?

BD is not run by the military but by a civilian government and it is obvious to anyone in government(even Hasina) that the BAF leadership is not up to scratch. She must have figured out in 2017 that Myanmar would have the upper hand and could have devastated BD infrastructure like Chittagong port in an aerial clash.

The leadership should have been replaced years ago by BAL but it has not been.

Only logical conclusion is that BAL are not too worried about a lack of an effective airforce and so they allow the BAF leadership to do as they please.

Like I say the problem is fundamentally one of BAL and blaming BAF simply won’t fix the problem.


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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Your statement is contradictory as it blames BAF more but then it says the buck stops with the govt?
> 
> BD is not run by the military but by a civilian government and it is obvious to anyone in government(even Hasina) that the BAF leadership is not up to scratch. She must have figured out in 2017 that Myanmar would have the upper hand and could have devastated BD infrastructure like Chittagong port in an aerial clash.
> 
> The leadership should have been replaced years ago by BAL but it has not been.
> 
> Only logical conclusion is that BAL are not too worried about a lack of an effective airforce and so they allow the BAF leadership to do as they please.
> 
> Like I say the problem is fundamentally one of BAL and blaming BAF simply won’t fix the problem.


As I have already stated many times in previous posts, in the absence of military know how in the cabinet, defence procurement gets prioritised based on how hard a service heckles. The improbability of an actual war further deprioritises military procurement in civilian minds. It is the job of the three services to push things up the chain. BA and BN do their parts just fine while BAF does BAF.


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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> As I have already stated many times in previous posts, in the absence of military know how in the cabinet, defence procurement gets prioritised based on how hard a service heckles. The improbability of an actual war further deprioritises military procurement in civilian minds. It is the job of the three services to push things up the chain. BA and BN do their parts just fine while BAF does BAF.




How much military knowledge do you need to know your airforce is almost non-existent and cannot defend against a much smaller neighbour?

They know this in BAL and are relaxed about it.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> As I have already stated many times in previous posts, in the absence of military know how in the cabinet, defence procurement gets prioritised based on how hard a service heckles. The improbability of an actual war further deprioritises military procurement in civilian minds. It is the job of the three services to push things up the chain. BA and BN do their parts just fine while BAF does BAF.


BA doesn't have to do too much to get attention.


UKBengali said:


> They know this in BAL and are relaxed about it.


From my perspective its all about money, money , money. Civilian leadership looks at the huge price tag of MRCA and says ''nah f it '' .
Of course no one here knows the real answer why , all of us are here speculating. Money or the lack of will to spend it is the biggest problem here.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> How much military knowledge do you need to know your airforce is almost non-existent and cannot defend against a much smaller neighbour?
> 
> They know this in BAL and are relaxed about it.


Bangladeshi civilians in general have very little clue about defence. Ask Bangladeshis you know what MRCA stands for, 9/10 will fail to elaborate.
Politicians are no different. Moreover, all BD politicians care about is power grab and stealing money. They have little bandwidth to pay heed to military strategy.

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## The Ronin

UKBengali said:


> She must have figured out in 2017 that Myanmar would have the upper hand and could have devastated BD infrastructure like Chittagong port in an aerial clash.



How Myanmar would've upper hand? Myanmar can't even win war against rebel with handmade rifle. They use trainer aircraft with unguided rockets to attack rebels. Ridiculous that people think Myanmar will have upper hand against a professional military just because they have more jets than us.


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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Bangladeshi civilians in general have very little clue about defence. Ask Bangladeshis you know what MRCA stands for, 9/10 will fail to elaborate.
> Politicians are no different. Moreover, all BD politicians care about is power grab and stealing money. They have little bandwidth to pay heed to military strategy.


Like I proposed this before. Let Burma bomb the shit out of Chittagong port and us being caught off guard holding dicks in our hand… surely everyone will blame the govt. for not buying fighters and you’ll see massive purchase orders right there after

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## Destranator

The Ronin said:


> How Myanmar would've upper hand? Myanmar can't even win war against rebel with handmade rifle. They use trainer aircraft with unguided rockets to attack rebels. Ridiculous that people think Myanmar will have upper hand against a professional military just because they have more jets than us.



Guerilla and conventional warfare are completely different challenges.
Military strenght wise Myanmar does have the upper hand over BD right now. Talk to any BA or BN officer, he/she will acknowledge.
BAF personnel I have met live in their own parallel universe so not sure what they will tell you.

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## Avicenna

You can't just decide to buy a particular aircraft and expect to be up and running the next year.

It is a multi-year process.

Given this, Myanmar is WAY ahead of Bangladesh.

I have no idea what BAF will do when MyAF starts flying SD-10 equipped JF-17 and R-77 equipped Flankers in any border conflict.

After 2017, this inaction or slow pace of action is beyond embarrassing for Bangladesh.

I don't know who is at fault, but either remedy the situation or suffer even greater embarrassment in the future.

Also, the PM should not be the Defense Minister.

This is what happens when you put grandma in charge.

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## leonblack08

I think SH has a defense advisor to advise on the defense related matter. She doesn't arbitrarily decide on defense matters. Major General Tariq was in the past, not sure he is still there. Also to note here is that, inter forces rivalry influences the budget allocation. That calls for BAF chief to be strong enough to be able to make the case for air force needs.

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## Destranator

leonblack08 said:


> I think SH has a defense advisor to advise on the defense related matter. She doesn't arbitrarily decide on defense matters. Major General Tariq was in the past, not sure he is still there. Also to note here is that, inter forces rivalry influences the budget allocation. That calls for BAF chief to be strong enough to be able to make the case for air force needs.


An advisor can only advise. Not the same as being a minister.
Inter services rivalry is exactly the reason why we need a Joint Services Command which would lead, discipline, coordinate and prioritise. The armed forces are useless unless they are well integrated.

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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> An advisor can only advise. Not the same as being a minister.
> Inter services rivalry is exactly the reason why we need a Joint Services Command which would lead, discipline, coordinate and prioritise. The armed forces are useless unless they are well integrated.



This is a BAL fault as they have had ample time to put this in place now. Why they have not done this so far is the big question.

Any military worth it’s salt will not allow a situation where one service is virtually unable to fulfil its primary objective due to lack of a critical weapon system.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> An advisor can only advise. Not the same as being a minister.
> Inter services rivalry is exactly the reason why we need a Joint Services Command which would lead, discipline, coordinate and prioritise. The armed forces are useless unless they are well integrated.


Joint services command will still be inefficient because army will dominate the other two forces which have less officers. Not to mention army is extremely corrupt nowadays, bd military emulated exact mercenary like behavior it’s former outfit did (pak army) With its own revenue streams that it doesn’t need to be accountable for, even though initial investment is through tax payers money


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## Avicenna

A nice read.



https://world.eurofighter.com/articles/eazy




We get under the skin of the Eurofighter Typhoon fighter pilots and try to understand the demands of the role and the skills required. Part one features CHRISTIAN "EAZY" SCHARNETZKY
*






What inspired you to be a fighter pilot?*
I'm from a region in Germany called Allgäu. There was a fighter bomber wing close by and as a kid I remember hearing the aircraft flying overhead and thinking that would be a very cool job.
Later my two sisters happened to find work in the city where the fighter wing was located. In fact, they both went on to marry pilots from the base, which made it very easy for me to ask more and more questions about the job.
My brothers-in-law really brought me into the flying world. As a teenager they took me to an open day, and I still have a picture of me sitting in a Tornado simulator from that day. They also took me to a couple of social events, and I really liked the community — the living and working together — on the wings.
Getting to know them and their work cemented my desire to be a pilot. When my brothers-in-law realised how keen I was they gave me all the information I needed, I was even able to shadow them for a couple of days.

*How did you then turn that dream into reality?*
I read everything I could about what the Bundeswehr expects from a fighter pilot. And I tried to become that exact person. At college, I chose sports and physics for my majors because I figured that a mathematical or physics background would help me and a great physical fitness is obviously a prerequisite for that calling.
I was incredibly determined. Then, a year before finishing up college, I got word from the German armed forces that they would hire me. Of course, you can never take for granted that you will achieve your goal until you actually sit in the Eurofighter.
It’s the same even when you are flying the Eurofighter. You have to keep on working to keep the job, to stay on the cutting edge of the business. I started basic training in Bavaria six days after I left school. After that, I went to Officer School for about a year and then to the University of the Federal Armed Forces in Munich. I elected to study aerospace engineering — my decision back in college finally paid off – and I finished up with a degree in aerospace engineering in 2009.
During that time, I elected to try to improve my English by going to the University of Arizona in Tucson for my diploma thesis.

*When was the first time you actually got inside a cockpit?*
A year after I finished university. I joined a pre-test squadron before going over to the Euro-NATO pilot training in Texas for academic practice, survival and centrifuge training. From there I went to Goodyear, Arizona, close to Phoenix. which is where you actually get to fly an aircraft the first time by yourself – in a Grob 120.
I remember it clearly. The first time you are alone in your aircraft your mind is like ‘OK, hopefully I studied everything.’ When the instructor got out, he gave me a pat on the shoulder saying, ‘You’ve got this, brother.’ I was very excited. But then I flipped a mental switch to focus on the procedures and the techniques I needed.
Right from take-off I functioned like a well programmed machine and the first time I took a step back and realised ‘Hey, this is actually easy and fun’ was ten minutes into that solo-flight. That night I promised myself I would always take the time for those easy and fun moments during every flight and never take privilege of enjoying it for granted.
That focus has been the same throughout the last ten years. Every time I do something new that focus kicks in. It’s always exciting to do something the first time but focus is really important.
When the air force carries out their assessment of potential pilots, they do a psychological evaluation to see if you have the correct mindset for flying fast jets. When you look at the pilots in my squadron, I think that ‘focus’ is a key feature they're looking for. Mental attitude is the most important thing, because you can overcome drawbacks in G-sustainability, for example.
It is more about the assertiveness of your character. I think the reason why they put you through all the training is to figure out who has the right attitude, the drive, and who is really committed to the job. Training never stops. And if you stop trying to be better than you were the day before, then I guess you stop trying to be a good pilot.

*Was the training character-building?*
You do about 30 hours in the Grob 120 before going on to fast jet pilot training in Sheppard Air Force Base in North Texas. For the first six months or 100 hours you’re in the Texan II and then you step up to the T-38. You earn your wings after about 12 months. In that time, you learn to fly the aircraft, fly in formation with another aircraft and do the baby steps of tactical employment — like low-level flying and manoeuvring in a tactical formation.
Once you earn your wings you think you made it, but obviously the training never stops. That’s the story of your life until you retire. I went on to the Introduction to Fighter.
Fundamentals in the T-38 Talon learning about the tactical employment of a jet you already know by then.
Those three months were really character building. Right there they check if you have what it takes and show you what will be expected of you for the rest of your career in the fighter community. Within the first 15 months, if you haven't experienced any kind of setback in your performance, you will experience it later. Everybody struggles at some point. Everybody.
What they put you through in those 15 months in Texas is important because you will need it later in your career.
Later in your life it might be paramount that you know how to deal with setbacks. When you’re flying your Eurofighter and find something isn’t how it should be in a mission, or performance-wise you’re not at your best, or you find different threats from what you were expecting, you need to be able to cope. If you allowed these drawbacks to disturb you so that you were not able to fulfil your mission, that would be unacceptable at best and could cost your life at worst.
Mentally we have to be prepared to fight in wartime and have that ability to compartmentalise and think ‘Well, this didn't go as I wanted it to, but I have to get over it and get my next steps done’. That focus will save your life.
*





Did you return to Germany at this stage?*
Normally I would have gone back to do my qualification on my chosen aircraft — either a Tornado or a Eurofighter. You don’t select them, the instructor pilots get together, to draw a picture of your character, your performance, your abilities, and come up with the best role you would fit into.
But I did not go right to the Eurofighter because there was opportunity to stay in the United States as an instructor pilot in the undergraduate pilot training programme.
Obviously, since childhood I wanted to fly Eurofighters so part of me wanted to go directly there but, after taking advice from my brothers-in-law and my mentor-IP in ENJJPT, I volunteered for the instructor role.
As it turned out this was a really good experience for me and the advice I received was excellent. I would make the same decision in a heartbeat. In 2012 I started my stint as a First Assigned Instructor Pilot (FAIP). You go right out of training and into the role as an instructor amongst other pilots, same age. Suddenly, you have to be the responsible guy in the aircraft and instruct students who are barely younger than you. You also have to live up to the standards and expectations you put onto your students each day and take pride in the character-building process during their training.
For me, that was the most intense evolution of my flying career. I went from flying an aircraft solo for the first time in October 2010 – when I was in the ‘Look at me, I'm not dying’ phase, to December 2012 when I was actually starting to teach people not to kill themselves!
Coming back to Germany in December 2015 my bag of tricks as an aviator was pretty full. I had seen a lot of things in those three years, which I have been able to capitalise on ever since. I was able to focus far more on getting the mission done correctly.
* 
When you left the States, where did you go to next?*
I went straight to Neuburg in December 2015 where I'm stationed today, though I’m soon to be transferred to Ingolstadt to join the test squadron. In the summer of 2016, I started flying the Eurofighter at Laage and by February 2017, I had completed the initial training and returned to Neuburg Airbase as a mission capable pilot air-to-air. Today I'm a combat ready Four-Ship Flight Lead air-to-air and I completed combat readiness training air-to-surface, so I can use the Eurofighter in its swing role capacity.
In total right now I have completed around 1,700 hundred flying hours, about 500 on the Eurofighter and about 1,000 as an instructor pilot on the T-38.

*What do you remember of your first Eurofighter flight?*
It felt exactly the same as the very first solo ride, but 1,000 times cooler because the thrust-to-weight ratio of the Eurofighter is second to none. The first time you hit the afterburners and take off with the nose high into the sky it feels like you just launched a rocket towards the moon. It really was the best experience ever.
The three years as an instructor pilot were very fulfilling but being alone in an aircraft, where you don't have to talk to another guy, it's just you and that incredibly powerful aircraft, was a lot of fun.
*





What do you think are the key personal attributes you need to get to the top?*
Definitely assertiveness about fulfilling your personal goals, and striving to be the best is one. The fighter pilot world is a competitive environment. Everyone here in Neuburg shares that strong Band of Brothers mentality and we are there for each other every day. But the second we start flying there’s a competitive edge. You want to be the best of the best in your squadron. You want to be driving the mission, succeeding the best way possible.
I would also say being accountable for your own actions is another key attribute. Reliability and integrity are very important too because if you are not a reliable guy you will not survive in this community. Dealing with pressure is key too. All these tools will make you a very good pilot and help you focus on succeeding.

*Do these things help or hinder in day-to-day life?*
You can take off the flight suit, but you cannot get the pilot out of the person. When I drive home, I’m a dad with my kids and my family. But the default way you tackle things, is always with the fighter pilot mentality. I’m always assertive and if I want to get something done, I get it done. I will figure out a way, the best way to do it. You can never just turn that switch off.
I would say that fighter pilots are probably interesting people to deal with because of that. If you are part of the solution, they are very easy to work with. If you're part of the challenge, then it's going to be interesting!

*What’s the key difference between a fighter and commercial pilot, in terms of skillset and mindset?*
The common traits are accountability and reliability. The commercial pilot has to take care of 200 passengers and their thought process is more driven by safety. They’ve also got to think commercially, about operating in an economical way.
While the fighter pilot also always has the safety aspect in mind, they need to weigh up the risks versus benefits in the air in a heartbeat and sometimes make a decision between survival and mission success. To make mission critical decisions, like, can I proceed into a weapons employment zone of a possible hostile fighter without sacrificing the mission?
While the mission in the commercial world is focussed mainly on safety, the fighter pilot sometimes has to put his flight, depending on the mission risk level, in the context of John Wayne’s quote: Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

*What are the highlights of your career to date?*
Two instances are imprinted on my brain as very good learning experiences. The first was the Arctic Challenge Exercise in Bodø 2019. It’s one of the best exercises we have on the continent.
It was a great deployment with very realistic scenarios for large force employment. We brought a lot of Eurofighters and brothers from Neuburg and Wittmund and we represented Germany very well. For me the best part of that exercise was being able fly in the same COMAO side by side with some of my former students from other nations like Norway and the United States, who I trained during my time in Texas. It was very rewarding to see those personalities succeeding in the fighter world knowing that I was fortunate enough to have been part of the moulding process of those aviators.
The second experience was the Tactical Leadership Programme in Spain. It was a chance to work in the international environment again and also a character-building event.
In it you are amongst 50 highly-trained, very professional military aviators, who all know their weapons systems very well, know their capabilities, know all their and the enemies’ tactics, techniques and procedures. I was lucky to be elected as a mission commander for one day. It was an interesting and rewarding day.
You have to know your business — the rules, the numbers, the threat rings, the tactics … everything. You also have to display in a heartbeat in both verbal and non-verbal ways that you bring exactly the right character attributes with you.
I was the guy who was accountable for the whole COMAO — for all 30-plus aircraft. When you’re up in front— the make-it or break-it guy — you have to transmit the integrity that makes a fighter pilot with every word you say.
And you need the assertiveness everybody is looking for in every decision you take. You want those warriors to follow your plan in the air, and they only do if they realise you walk the talk already on the ground.
*





What do you think about the Eurofighter? How would you describe it?*
I was trained in an aircraft which was 60-years-old, the T-38. Learning ‘how’ to fly the aircraft was the most important thing. Going into the Eurofighter flying was not even secondary, it was tertiary because the Eurofighter design is all about carefree handling.
The aircraft pretty much flies itself. You tell it where to go and it will tell you if you get too slow or off track. But at the same time, it will give you a myriad of information that you have to process, prioritise and compartmentalise.
You get audible info, with three different stations talking, there are the three displays and the head-up control panel. All the different sensors are fusing into the picture, and all of this is displayed at the same time. The system gives you priority messages from things like the DASS (Defensive Aid Sub-System) or if you've been engaged by a hostile fighter while you are on your mission.
In this instance, you have a split second to make your mind up what to do. Should I shift my attention from, for example, a surface-to-air engagement to air-to-air? You do it in a heartbeat. As a machine, the Eurofighter is excellently designed to help you in that decision process.
The mental and physical demands on your body must be quite exhausting? Yes, but the equipment like the G-suit is excellent. It helps us to sustain high G-force loads while still being able to concentrate on the thought process. The limiting factor is not so much physical but mental. That’s why the selection process is really important. The information has to go through the brain of the pilot, and that has to work under real physical stress.

*What's attracted you to your next role as a test pilot?*
I love the operational world of the Eurofighter and flying my daily missions but over the last couple of years I’d become very keen to switch over to the test side of the house, which looks at the operational testing of future equipment.
I was lucky because they only look for new test pilots every ten years or so. When the request came I was in the right place at the right time, with the right education and training.
I hope that over the years I remain in service I can actually try to make the lives of future pilots easier with the equipment that is being introduced. I will still be heavily involved with Eurofighter and I'm looking forward to it. It's already a great aircraft, but to make it even better and help the operator to get improvements they need to stay on the cutting edge is what I'm really looking forward to. The Quadriga decision was good news for the Eurofighter and now, with the implementation of the E-Scan radar and new effectors, it will be a very interesting period to be a test pilot.

*Do you have any advice you’ve been given that you’d share for anyone reading this who’d want to follow in your footsteps?*
My motto for life might help them. When you’re aiming for perfection, it's very easy to fall into a habit of being so focused on the job that you totally forget to enjoy the moments you are airborne — like the first time solo or the first time in the Eurofighter. That’s why when I started flying, I set my motto as ‘chill and aim for excellence’. I guess that's why they call me ‘Eazy’ because yes, I'm very focused on the job, but I always make sure to remember the fun part in everything I do, too.

*CHRISTIAN "EAZY" SCHARNETZKY*
German Air Force
Based at Neuburg
500 flying hours on Eurofighter Typhoon
TLP certified
Lead and certified in air-to-air and air-to-surface role

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## ziaulislam

Michael Corleone said:


> Joint services command will still be inefficient because army will dominate the other two forces which have less officers. Not to mention army is extremely corrupt nowadays, bd military emulated exact mercenary like behavior it’s former outfit did (pak army) With its own revenue streams that it doesn’t need to be accountable for, even though initial investment is through tax payers money


Pak army is doing fine ..it seems pretty odd comparing it with military which has sucessfully thrawted a 10x bigger enemy is combat

BD has half of the budget of pak army and can afford a similar budget now..but doesnt airforce doesnt operate a single functional sqaurdon but thats fine..

BD army doesnt feel it needs anything because it is sorrounded on 3sides by an alley and long term friend and fourth side by water

The few 100kms of maynmur boarder doesnt matter..myanmur wont dear do anything aslong as india is there


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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> Pak army is doing fine ..it seems pretty odd comparing it with military which has sucessfully thrawted a 10x bigger enemy is combat
> 
> BD has half of the budget of pak army and can afford a similar budget now..but doesnt airforce doesnt operate a single functional sqaurdon but thats fine..
> 
> BD army doesnt feel it needs anything because it is sorrounded on 3sides by an alley and long term friend and fourth side by water
> 
> The few 100kms of maynmur boarder doesnt matter..myanmur wont dear do anything aslong as india is there


Bd army handicapped the airforce killing all its officers multiple times and destroying its fleet just to hold its influence over the government. In Pakistan the army didn’t go to self destructive measures but did interfere in govt policies and ruined its economy.

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## Avicenna

Any prospect to send BAF pilots here in preparation for Eurofighter?









Italian Minister of Defense visits International Flight Training School in Decimomannu, Sardinia


Italian Minister of Defense visits International Flight Training School in Decimomannu, Sardinia




www.blogbeforeflight.net






*Italian Minister of Defense visits International Flight Training School in Decimomannu, Sardinia*

September 24, 2021 0

*The IFTS will become an international center of excellence. It was born from the union of the great flight training capabilities of the Italian Air Force and the advanced integrated training platforms of Leonardo.*
​


Italian Air Force T-346A advanced trainer jets.

Italian Defense Minister Lorenzo Guerini visited the site that will host the International Flight Training School (IFTS) of the Italian Air Force at the Decimomannu air base, Sardinia, on Wednesday.

"The new International Flight Training School of the Italian Air Force is the result of fruitful cooperation, on an international basis, between Defense, the National Industry and the Autonomous Region of Sardinia. It has a low environmental impact and offers economic and social advantages at the national and local," said Guerini.

In addition to the Minister, numerous other authorities participated in the visit, including the Lt. Gen. Alberto Rosso, Chief of Staff of the Air Force; the CEO of Leonardo SpA, Alessandro Profumo; the General Manager of Leonardo SpA, Eng. Lucio Valerio Cioffi; the Commander of the Italian Air Force Command for Sardinia, Gen. Davide Marzinotto; the Commander of the Experimental and Standardization Air Shooting Department of the Italian Air Force, Col. Cosimo De Luca; the President of Sardinia, Christian Solinas; the President of the Regional Council Michele Pais and the Mayors of Decimomannu and Villasor.


The project plans to take advantage of the large training air spaces of Sardinia to create an inter-force, international and multi-domain training unicum that allows fourth and fifth generation aircraft to increase and enhance their operational capabilities in complex scenarios, faithful to reality.

"Decimomannu will become a center of excellence for advanced flight training, it will host the most modern and advanced integrated training system among those of all Western countries. It involves a large investment in the construction of state-of-the-art and environmentally friendly infrastructures. I know that mainly regional companies were involved. It is proof of how important Sardinia is for defense and the nation," said Guerini.

President Solinas underlined how much the Sardinia Region has strongly believed in the IFTS Project which is "the result of a renewed collaboration between institutions, at the service of Sardinia and the whole country. The training center will favor an increase in employment in the territory and a collaboration strategic with technical and academic institutes".

The project will offer Sardinia positive effects on stable direct and indirect employment, in the medium-long term and not subject to seasonality. It will promote economic and training opportunities for young graduates of regional technical institutes, and significant savings in terms of training costs. "The synergy between the Italian Air Force and Leonardo S.p.a. - said Guerini - confirms the strategic vision of Defense, Industry and local institutions towards European integration: seizing opportunities and transforming them into concrete projects."

The IFTS will allow the service to double the current training offer through the establishment of a training center that will join the one already existing at the Galatina Air Base, southern Italy.

The IFTS will train the new generation of fighter pilots, providing customized training modules tailored to the various requirements of the national and international air forces, calibrated on the machines for which the students will be destined. Thanks to the use of M346 Live technology, Virtual & Constructive, the number of real flight hours will be reduced in favor of those carried out in the simulator, as well as the more expensive ones for operational conversion at fighter squadrons.

"Through the training of pilots from other countries - underlined Guerini - the IFTS project represents an investment in maintaining good relations between countries and therefore an investment in terms of military policy and from a geostrategic point of view".







Written by Matteo Sanzani
Source, Images: Italian Air Force









Leonardo, CAE team up to support International Flight Training School in Italy


Leonardo, CAE team up to support International Flight Training School




www.blogbeforeflight.net





*Leonardo, CAE team up to support International Flight Training School in Italy*

Blog Before Flight Staff March 29, 2021 0




Leonardo M-346 advanced trainer jet. It is the backbone of Italy's International Flight Training School (IFTS).
March 29, 2021 – Leonardo and CAE today announced the two companies have created a joint venture called Leonardo CAE Advanced Jet Training Srl to support the operations of the International Flight Training School (IFTS) in Italy. The joint venture will provide training support services, including full maintenance and operation of the M-346 aircraft and its ground-based training system, as well as operation of IFTS base facilities.

The IFTS, a unique partnership between the Italian Air Force (ItAF) and Leonardo, has been created to deliver a comprehensive lead-in to fighter training to the Italian Air Force and foreign customers. The IFTS advanced training program, based on the Phase IV of the Italian Air Force syllabus, can rely on the M-346 ground-based training system, including the advanced full-mission simulator jointly developed by Leonardo and CAE.




The IFTS is currently located at 61st Wing - Galatina (Apulia Region - South Italy) Italian Air Force Base and will be relocate, starting from 2022, to Decimomannu Italian Air Force Base (Sardinia Region – South Italy) where a groundbreaking ceremony was held in December 2020 to formally begin construction on a modern flight training campus.

“Our commitment to deliver to the IFTS customers a best-in-class training capability is further demonstrated by the choice of CAE as our IFTS partner. The joint venture represents the ideal framework to further leverage our successful collaboration on the M-346 ground-based training system, while ensuring us the agility and flexibility to meet challenging and tailored customer requirements,” said Leonardo Aircraft Division Managing Director, Marco Zoff. “Leonardo, CAE and the Italian Air Force’s world-renowned excellence will guarantee advanced top level training for the modern air forces at reduced cost in order to satisfy a growing demand in advanced flight training.”


The industrial partnership between Leonardo and CAE in the form of the joint venture will manage and conduct the day-to-day operations of the IFTS. The IFTS will operate a fleet of 22 M-346 advanced jet trainers, an aircraft that features a range of embedded training capabilities enabling extensive live, virtual and constructive training. Training will be delivered by a cadre of active-duty Italian Air Force and highly experienced international former military instructor pilots.

“CAE and Leonardo have a longstanding industrial relationship and we are pleased to invest jointly with Leonardo and the Italian Air Force in this groundbreaking public-private partnership to operate the International Flight Training School,” said Marc-Olivier Sabourin, Vice President and General Manager, Defence & Security International, CAE. “The partnership between Leonardo and CAE will support the M-346 Integrated Training System, which is a pivotal element of a modern and innovative Lead-In to Fighter Training (LIFT) program for next generation pilots.”

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Any prospect to send BAF pilots here in preparation for Eurofighter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italian Minister of Defense visits International Flight Training School in Decimomannu, Sardinia
> 
> 
> Italian Minister of Defense visits International Flight Training School in Decimomannu, Sardinia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.blogbeforeflight.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Italian Minister of Defense visits International Flight Training School in Decimomannu, Sardinia*
> 
> September 24, 2021 0
> 
> *The IFTS will become an international center of excellence. It was born from the union of the great flight training capabilities of the Italian Air Force and the advanced integrated training platforms of Leonardo.*
> ​
> 
> 
> Italian Air Force T-346A advanced trainer jets.
> 
> Italian Defense Minister Lorenzo Guerini visited the site that will host the International Flight Training School (IFTS) of the Italian Air Force at the Decimomannu air base, Sardinia, on Wednesday.
> 
> "The new International Flight Training School of the Italian Air Force is the result of fruitful cooperation, on an international basis, between Defense, the National Industry and the Autonomous Region of Sardinia. It has a low environmental impact and offers economic and social advantages at the national and local," said Guerini.
> 
> In addition to the Minister, numerous other authorities participated in the visit, including the Lt. Gen. Alberto Rosso, Chief of Staff of the Air Force; the CEO of Leonardo SpA, Alessandro Profumo; the General Manager of Leonardo SpA, Eng. Lucio Valerio Cioffi; the Commander of the Italian Air Force Command for Sardinia, Gen. Davide Marzinotto; the Commander of the Experimental and Standardization Air Shooting Department of the Italian Air Force, Col. Cosimo De Luca; the President of Sardinia, Christian Solinas; the President of the Regional Council Michele Pais and the Mayors of Decimomannu and Villasor.
> 
> 
> The project plans to take advantage of the large training air spaces of Sardinia to create an inter-force, international and multi-domain training unicum that allows fourth and fifth generation aircraft to increase and enhance their operational capabilities in complex scenarios, faithful to reality.
> 
> "Decimomannu will become a center of excellence for advanced flight training, it will host the most modern and advanced integrated training system among those of all Western countries. It involves a large investment in the construction of state-of-the-art and environmentally friendly infrastructures. I know that mainly regional companies were involved. It is proof of how important Sardinia is for defense and the nation," said Guerini.
> 
> President Solinas underlined how much the Sardinia Region has strongly believed in the IFTS Project which is "the result of a renewed collaboration between institutions, at the service of Sardinia and the whole country. The training center will favor an increase in employment in the territory and a collaboration strategic with technical and academic institutes".
> 
> The project will offer Sardinia positive effects on stable direct and indirect employment, in the medium-long term and not subject to seasonality. It will promote economic and training opportunities for young graduates of regional technical institutes, and significant savings in terms of training costs. "The synergy between the Italian Air Force and Leonardo S.p.a. - said Guerini - confirms the strategic vision of Defense, Industry and local institutions towards European integration: seizing opportunities and transforming them into concrete projects."
> 
> The IFTS will allow the service to double the current training offer through the establishment of a training center that will join the one already existing at the Galatina Air Base, southern Italy.
> 
> The IFTS will train the new generation of fighter pilots, providing customized training modules tailored to the various requirements of the national and international air forces, calibrated on the machines for which the students will be destined. Thanks to the use of M346 Live technology, Virtual & Constructive, the number of real flight hours will be reduced in favor of those carried out in the simulator, as well as the more expensive ones for operational conversion at fighter squadrons.
> 
> "Through the training of pilots from other countries - underlined Guerini - the IFTS project represents an investment in maintaining good relations between countries and therefore an investment in terms of military policy and from a geostrategic point of view".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Written by Matteo Sanzani
> Source, Images: Italian Air Force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leonardo, CAE team up to support International Flight Training School in Italy
> 
> 
> Leonardo, CAE team up to support International Flight Training School
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.blogbeforeflight.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Leonardo, CAE team up to support International Flight Training School in Italy*
> 
> Blog Before Flight Staff March 29, 2021 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leonardo M-346 advanced trainer jet. It is the backbone of Italy's International Flight Training School (IFTS).
> March 29, 2021 – Leonardo and CAE today announced the two companies have created a joint venture called Leonardo CAE Advanced Jet Training Srl to support the operations of the International Flight Training School (IFTS) in Italy. The joint venture will provide training support services, including full maintenance and operation of the M-346 aircraft and its ground-based training system, as well as operation of IFTS base facilities.
> 
> The IFTS, a unique partnership between the Italian Air Force (ItAF) and Leonardo, has been created to deliver a comprehensive lead-in to fighter training to the Italian Air Force and foreign customers. The IFTS advanced training program, based on the Phase IV of the Italian Air Force syllabus, can rely on the M-346 ground-based training system, including the advanced full-mission simulator jointly developed by Leonardo and CAE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IFTS is currently located at 61st Wing - Galatina (Apulia Region - South Italy) Italian Air Force Base and will be relocate, starting from 2022, to Decimomannu Italian Air Force Base (Sardinia Region – South Italy) where a groundbreaking ceremony was held in December 2020 to formally begin construction on a modern flight training campus.
> 
> “Our commitment to deliver to the IFTS customers a best-in-class training capability is further demonstrated by the choice of CAE as our IFTS partner. The joint venture represents the ideal framework to further leverage our successful collaboration on the M-346 ground-based training system, while ensuring us the agility and flexibility to meet challenging and tailored customer requirements,” said Leonardo Aircraft Division Managing Director, Marco Zoff. “Leonardo, CAE and the Italian Air Force’s world-renowned excellence will guarantee advanced top level training for the modern air forces at reduced cost in order to satisfy a growing demand in advanced flight training.”
> 
> 
> The industrial partnership between Leonardo and CAE in the form of the joint venture will manage and conduct the day-to-day operations of the IFTS. The IFTS will operate a fleet of 22 M-346 advanced jet trainers, an aircraft that features a range of embedded training capabilities enabling extensive live, virtual and constructive training. Training will be delivered by a cadre of active-duty Italian Air Force and highly experienced international former military instructor pilots.
> 
> “CAE and Leonardo have a longstanding industrial relationship and we are pleased to invest jointly with Leonardo and the Italian Air Force in this groundbreaking public-private partnership to operate the International Flight Training School,” said Marc-Olivier Sabourin, Vice President and General Manager, Defence & Security International, CAE. “The partnership between Leonardo and CAE will support the M-346 Integrated Training System, which is a pivotal element of a modern and innovative Lead-In to Fighter Training (LIFT) program for next generation pilots.”


Very much possible if we get EFTs. If we do, we should try to get them to install EFT simulation modules into our Yak-130s.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Joint services command will still be inefficient because army will dominate the other two forces which have less officers. Not to mention army is extremely corrupt nowadays, bd military emulated exact mercenary like behavior it’s former outfit did (pak army) With its own revenue streams that it doesn’t need to be accountable for, even though initial investment is through tax payers money


Inefficient or not, JSC is a must have as it would serve many vital functions, as listed in my previous post, which is almost totally absent at the moment.


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd army handicapped the airforce killing all its officers multiple times and destroying its fleet just to hold its influence over the government. In Pakistan the army didn’t go to self destructive measures but did interfere in govt policies and ruined its economy.


More like Zia's inner circle than the army as a whole.
Bangladesh Army became a stable entity after the pre-71 PMA commissioned officers lost dominance due to age. All coups stopped. PMA creates overly entitled monsters who believe the whole nation is beholden and subservient to them. Look at Pakistan's history. PA was directly or indirectly responsible for all their major blunders such as 1965, 1971, 1999, creation of Mujahidin and other terrorists, etc. They possibly also sabotaged the 2005 peace process with India through the 2008 Mumbai Attacks as peace would with India would make PA lose relevance. They even have the audacity to blackmail Supreme Court justices using ISI.

Bangladesh Armed Forces should limit their interactions with their Indian and Pakistani counterparts and look West and East instead.

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## ziaulislam

Michael Corleone said:


> Bd army handicapped the airforce killing all its officers multiple times and destroying its fleet just to hold its influence over the government. In Pakistan the army didn’t go to self destructive measures but did interfere in govt policies and ruined its economy.


Economy was ruined by corruption of civilian leadership
Its international (well mostly indian) propoganda to paint the army as the one.

This is easy by simply looking at growth/development during and no army era 

Pakistan was fastest growing economy in 2002-2007 then came duo corrupt leaders under civilian govt and we end up with IMF Three times


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## Michael Corleone

ziaulislam said:


> Economy was ruined by corruption of civilian leadership
> Its international (well mostly indian) propoganda to paint the army as the one.
> 
> This is easy by simply looking at growth/development during and no army era
> 
> Pakistan was fastest growing economy in 2002-2007 then came duo corrupt leaders under civilian govt and we end up with IMF Three times


And you’re going to acquit all the blame on overspending, taking military aid from US in exchange to train taliban to fight soviets which later became a Pakistan problem not to mention, drone strikes permission on a sovereign nation by Pervez Musharraf that killed many thousands in your country?
I mean pak army was behind the territorial loss of half the country. Not blaming it fully for it, but played a major role


Destranator said:


> Very much possible if we get EFTs. If we do, we should try to get them to install EFT simulation modules into our Yak-130s.


They’ll need to gut out all Russian avionics, flight computers etc and put in Italian ones. Idk how it effects costs. Probably could buy new planes for the price. Also warranty, don’t know how that would work, which party would take responsibility for a tampered product.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> They’ll need to gut out all Russian avionics, flight computers etc and put in Italian ones. Idk how it effects costs. Probably could buy new planes for the price. Also warranty, don’t know how that would work, which party would take responsibility for a tampered product.


Yak-130 has open architecture avionics and muti-channel FBWS allowing it to mimic different aircraft. Besides, Italy has developed its cousin the M-346. I am sure they can figure something out. This might void warranty but that's better than having to dump them and buy new.
Worst case we should just sell them and buy M-346s.
The biggest challenge would be disengaging BAF's advanced, high endurance HOTAS (Hand-on Thumbtwiddle and Sleep) system which no contractor on Earth can assist with. God forbid they might start blaming the "lack of modularity of Yak-130s" as the next excuse for not buying enough fighters.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Yak-130 has open architecture avionics and muti-channel FBWS allowing it to mimic different aircraft. Besides, Italy has developed its cousin the M-346. I am sure they can figure something out. This might void warranty but that's better than having to dump them and buy new.
> Worst case we should just sell them and buy M-346s.
> The biggest challenge would be disengaging BAF's advanced, high endurance HOTAS (Hand-on Thumbtwiddle and Sleep) system which no contractor on Earth can assist with. God forbid they might start blaming the "lack of modularity of Yak-130s" as the next excuse for not buying enough fighters.


An AJT qualified pilot shouldn't have much trouble flying the EFT. There are two seater EFTs.
IAF get trained on Hawk and proceed to fly Su-30MKI (maybe this example isn't appropriate.........)
Besides , doesn't BAF have a requirement to 24 AJT ? Meaning more trainers (i know, i know ) will come ?

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Yak-130 has open architecture avionics and muti-channel FBWS allowing it to mimic different aircraft. Besides, Italy has developed its cousin the M-346. I am sure they can figure something out. This might void warranty but that's better than having to dump them and buy new.
> Worst case we should just sell them and buy M-346s.
> The biggest challenge would be disengaging BAF's advanced, high endurance HOTAS (Hand-on Thumbtwiddle and Sleep) system which no contractor on Earth can assist with. God forbid they might start blaming the "lack of modularity of Yak-130s" as the next excuse for not buying enough fighters.


Hey could always sell to Burma. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤠

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> An AJT qualified pilot shouldn't have much trouble flying the EFT. There are two seater EFTs.
> IAF get trained on Hawk and proceed to fly Su-30MKI (maybe this example isn't appropriate.........)
> Besides , doesn't BAF have a requirement to 24 AJT ? Meaning more trainers (i know, i know ) will come ?


You are correct. Simulating EFTs on Yak-130s is not a necessity as EFT OCUs should be procured anyway.

In fact, if there comes a crisis of EFT pilots during war, pilots can also jump directly from K-8Ws to EFT OCUs.

However, since BAF has chosen the IJT-AJT-OCU path, might as well make the most of it by simulating their fighters on the AJTs - this has the benefit of saving OCU hours which are much more costly.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> You are correct. Simulating EFTs on Yak-130s is not a necessity as EFT OCUs should be procured anyway.
> 
> In fact, if there comes a crisis of EFT pilots during war, pilots can also jump directly from K-8Ws to EFT OCUs.
> 
> However, since BAF has chosen the IJT-AJT-OCU path, might as well make the most of it by simulating their fighters on the AJTs - this has the benefit of saving OCU hours which are much more costly.



I heard you can simulate most anything on Yak 130's, certainly most Russian advanced fighters like SU-35's.

I guess it would help Yak's marketing a lot better if they could simulate EFT's, certainly the talent is available from Yak I'm sure, or Russia in general (whomever did the job for Russian Air Force, which uses that simulator function on Yak-130's).

Not an expert on simulators, but I understand that it is a function of delayed flight surfaces control inputs (and feedback of same) simulating heavier weight, dynamics etc. AFAIK.

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.121423659417146/419519196274256

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> I heard you can simulate most anything on Yak 130's, certainly most Russian advanced fighters like SU-35's.
> 
> I guess it would help Yak's marketing a lot better if they could simulate EFT's, certainly the talent is available from Yak I'm sure, or Russia in general (whomever did the job for Russian Air Force, which uses that simulator function on Yak-130's).
> 
> Not an expert on simulators, but I understand that it is a function of delayed flight surfaces control inputs (and feedback of same) simulating heavier weight, dynamics etc. AFAIK.


I doubt whether Russia would be willing or capable of installing EFT modules into Yak-130s. However, assuming an EFT module is already operational with the Italian Air Force Leonardo M346s (which are basically Yak-130s with Western avionics) to train EFT pilots, Leonardo would be better placed to install these modules on our Yak-130s.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> I doubt whether Russia would be willing or capable of installing EFT modules into Yak-130s. However, assuming an EFT module is already operational with the Italian Air Force Leonardo M346s (which are basically Yak-130s with Western avionics) to train EFT pilots, Leonardo would be better placed to install these modules on our Yak-130s.



Agreed bhai. In any case, training simulators can do some small amount of this as well I guess.


F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.121423659417146/419519196274256



Shamney Mohila keda? Seems like someone from the Royal family...

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## mb444

Princess Anne

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> Princess Anne



Thanks Brother. Not familiar with a lot of Royal family members except The three-generation members below HM Queen Elizabeth.

One branch of them live near us in Santa Barbara with multi-cultural babies. 

I was fascinated that HM the Queen travels using her own fleet of Airplanes for short trips ("Queen's Flight" maintained by the RAF).


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## bluesky

The following is an excerpt from the wiki. It says about BAF possible plan to buy 16 Eurofighter jets at a cost of 2.5 billion Euro. Guys, please check the possibility.

*Bangladesh[edit]*
"Plans and procedures for the procurement of 16 western-origin multirole fighter jet were established after cancellation of the older tender for 8 to 12 Russian made MRCA.[85] According to several defense sources, the Eurofighter Typhoon was being in contention along with JAS 39 Gripen, Dassault Rafale and F-16 Fighting Falcon. In 2021, Bangladesh Government earmarked around 25,200-crores taka (2.5 billion euro) for 16 western-origin multirole fighter jet.[86]

In 2021, Eurofighter World Magazine stated Bangladesh as a potential customer for Eurofighter Typhoon.[87][88] Germany already ordered 38 Tranche 4 as a launch customer with cost of 5.4 billion euro in late 2020".[4]

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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> The following is an excerpt from the wiki. It says about BAF possible plan to buy 16 Eurofighter jets at a cost of 2.5 billion Euro. Guys, please check the possibility.
> 
> *Bangladesh[edit]*
> "Plans and procedures for the procurement of 16 western-origin multirole fighter jet were established after cancellation of the older tender for 8 to 12 Russian made MRCA.[85] According to several defense sources, the Eurofighter Typhoon was being in contention along with JAS 39 Gripen, Dassault Rafale and F-16 Fighting Falcon. In 2021, Bangladesh Government earmarked around 25,200-crores taka (2.5 billion euro) for 16 western-origin multirole fighter jet.[86]
> 
> In 2021, Eurofighter World Magazine stated Bangladesh as a potential customer for Eurofighter Typhoon.[87][88] Germany already ordered 38 Tranche 4 as a launch customer with cost of 5.4 billion euro in late 2020".[4]


Germany getting 38 for 142mil a pop. 2.5 billion would mean Bangladesh at 156 million a pop for 16… Bangladesh will need more fighters. Why not place a bigger order for lower average cost. 
bangladesh doesn’t have 156 million dollar for a plane it’s incompetent pilots may or may not crash within the first year. We can’t afford this jet, period.

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## Skywalker

757 pages and nothing so far, my son in shah Allah will be graduated from the med university in few years time and i can bet our bengladeshi brotheren would still be talking about procuring anything meaningful. feel so sad.

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Germany getting 38 for 142mil a pop. 2.5 billion would mean Bangladesh at 156 million a pop for 16… Bangladesh will need more fighters. Why not place a bigger order for lower average cost.
> bangladesh doesn’t have 156 million dollar for a plane it’s incompetent pilots may or may not crash within the first year. We can’t afford this jet, period.


Exactly, EFT is good to have bur cannot be prioritised over procurement of mainstay fighters


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## Michael Corleone

Skywalker said:


> 757 pages and nothing so far, my son in shah Allah will be graduated from the med university in few years time and i can bet our bengladeshi brotheren would still be talking about procuring anything meaningful. feel so sad.


Bro when they first started talking about fighter procurement I was in school. I’m going to finish my med school this year inshallah 😂 
Inshallah when my first child is born we will have new fighters 😂

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## Avicenna

Michael Corleone said:


> Bro when they first started talking about fighter procurement I was in school. I’m going to finish my med school this year inshallah 😂
> Inshallah when my first child is born we will have new fighters 😂



At the same time man, alot has happened.

Can you even imagine for a bit, the prospect of new build Eurofighter being bought by Bangladesh before 2017?

Fighter procurement takes time.

Also, I think the general state of the BAF needs major improvement before inducting these toys and that ALSO requires time.

The fact is BAF has probably been neglected for quite awhile.

What we don't know is if the government of Bangladesh is finally taking the needs of BAF seriously now or not.

Again, I say if BAF was a strong and capable force, the Rohingya issue on 2017 would not happen.

Air power is deterrence.

Bangladeshi capability in this regards it laughable.

Myanmar knew this and took advantage of Bangladeshi weakness.

And now what?

Bangladesh has to deal with the consequences.

If the government of Bangladesh hasn't learned by now, then what else is there to say?

The Bangladeshi people deserve better.

Also @Arthur pretty much said no new fighters until 2025.

Does anyone know where he is?

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## Michael Corleone

Avicenna said:


> At the same time man, alot has happened.
> 
> Can you even imagine for a bit, the prospect of new build Eurofighter being bought by Bangladesh before 2017?
> 
> Fighter procurement takes time.
> 
> Also, I think the general state of the BAF needs major improvement before inducting these toys and that ALSO requires time.
> 
> The fact is BAF has probably been neglected for quite awhile.
> 
> What we don't know is if the government of Bangladesh is finally taking the needs of BAF seriously now or not.
> 
> Again, I say if BAF was a strong and capable force, the Rohingya issue on 2017 would not happen.
> 
> Air power is deterrence.
> 
> Bangladeshi capability in this regards it laughable.
> 
> Myanmar knew this and took advantage of Bangladeshi weakness.
> 
> And now what?
> 
> Bangladesh has to deal with the consequences.
> 
> If the government of Bangladesh hasn't learned by now, then what else is there to say?
> 
> The Bangladeshi people deserve better.
> 
> Also @Arthur pretty much said no new fighters until 2025.
> 
> Does anyone know where he is?


This EFT idea was floated by Esrar. Tbh it came about without any practical thinking for capabilities and affordability in mind. 
in business there’s a saying if you want to buy something, always ask yourself if you can buy the same thing 10 times. 
can bd drop 2.5 bln into its squadron requirements? 10 sqd…? 
nah their plan is to buy one squadron and live with it until they retire. 
forget about affordability. We have seen how big of a financial loss the yak-130 crashes were… can we afford to lose a 156m dollar combat jet in peacetime much less war?
How about flight times? They churned out only 15 pilots in a batch recently… giving each pilot a minimum 200 flight hours also costs a lot. Will they be able to operate this jet at such costs?

there’s no pragmatic planning in any projects in bd. Always catchphrase, paper tigers. Getting a sqd of j10 would have boosted airspace security just as much. 
Or gripen/ f 16s for the matter

Pakistan has the best airforce in subcontinent and yet they’re pragmatic about operational cost and deterrence. They found a good hi/ lo mix in f16s and jf17 and I’m sure project Azm will take f16s place.

what about Bangladesh? How do they plan to keep all 16 fighters operational and combat ready at all times? They’re going to fight with 8 against our neighbors hundreds?

we blame the govt, army and everyone in between but airforce need to take responsibility for this incompetence too.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> until 2025.


why tho ?


Michael Corleone said:


> Getting a sqd of j10 would have boosted airspace security just as much.
> Or gripen/ f 16s for the matter


F-16C would cost 7000 USD/hour (not the new V cariant which costs more) 
Gripen C/D cost ~ 4000/Hour (not the new E variant whic costs more )

Typhoon would cost around ~12,000-16,000 USD/hour. not sure why the ''*double burners'' *are being given priority over single burners. 


Michael Corleone said:


> This EFT idea was floated by Esrar. Tbh it came about without any practical thinking for capabilities and affordability in mind.


good on him, otherwise we would have been stuck with MiG-35

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## Avicenna

I dunno why its important for BAF to have an "MRCA" with 2 engines.

32-48 single engine multirole fighters should be the priority.

Not 16 twin engine ones.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> I dunno why its important for BAF to have an "MRCA" with 2 engines.
> 
> 32-48 single engine multirole fighters should be the priority.
> 
> Not 16 twin engine ones.


But does a Typhoon has a single-engine plane?


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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> why tho ?


Germany, Italy and Spain is already in line now. I would say 2025 is also being generous.


F-6 enthusiast said:


> F-16C would cost 7000 USD/hour (not the new V cariant which costs more)
> Gripen C/D cost ~ 4000/Hour (not the new E variant whic costs more )
> 
> Typhoon would cost around ~12,000-16,000 USD/hour. not sure why the ''*double burners'' *are being given priority over single burners.


See there are perfect alternatives. Gripen is a no brainer but backhod fakir Bengalis dream of driving rolls Royce


F-6 enthusiast said:


> good on him, otherwise we would have been stuck with MiG-35


Trust me he would have gone with sukhoi had myanmar not happened. It’s only later he looked in eft


Avicenna said:


> I dunno why its important for BAF to have an "MRCA" with 2 engines.
> 
> 32-48 single engine multirole fighters should be the priority.
> 
> Not 16 twin engine ones.


Brazils deal sounds sweet then. They got 36 or so gripens for 3.6 bln I think

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## Indos

Avicenna said:


> I dunno why its important for BAF to have an "MRCA" with 2 engines.
> 
> 32-48 single engine multirole fighters should be the priority.
> 
> Not 16 twin engine ones.



It is because they know those Eurofighter will lost if F 16 or SAB Gripen enter the tender, look like middle man in BD has bribed some of your high rank officer. European is less clean than American, there is corruption case happening when an Indonesian airline bought Roll Royced Engine, the CEO is in jail now due to that corruption case


bluesky said:


> But does a Typhoon has a single-engine plane?



Typhon is twin engine fighter

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Germany, Italy and Spain is already in line now. I would say 2025 is also being generous.


yea but maybe italy and Uk have their lines open.
maybe just maybe

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449013179330203652


Michael Corleone said:


> Trust me he would have gone with sukhoi had myanmar not happened. It’s only later he looked in eft


myanmar has thing where they do parallel purchase. We buy something, they get the exact same thing.
This was his way of saying to the goverment ''put your money where your mouth is '' unnoto desh by 2040 


Indos said:


> It is because they know those Eurofighter will lost if F 16 or SAB Gripen enter the tender, look like middle man in BD has bribed some of your high rank officer. European is less clean than American, there is corruption case happening when an Indonesian airline bought Roll Royced Engine, the CEO is in jail now due to that corruption case


Good. at least they will buy something.

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> yea but maybe italy and Uk have their lines open.
> maybe just maybe
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449013179330203652
> myanmar has thing where they do parallel purchase. We buy something, they get the exact same thing.
> This was his way of saying to the goverment ''put your money where your mouth is '' unnoto desh by 2040
> 
> Good. at least they will buy something.


They still need the parts made by other partners.


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## bluesky

Below are a few specifics of Twin Engine Eurofighter Typhoon, sourced from the internet.





__





Eurofighter Typhoon | Advantages of the most advanced fighter aircraft


Eurofighter Typhoon advantages include its swing-role and stealth capabilities, agile performance and multiple Air-to-Air and Air-to-Surface configurations.




www.eurofighter.com





*ADVANTAGES*
The battle-proven Eurofighter Typhoon is the world’s leading air defence and ground attack aircraft with full multi and swing-role capabilities.
Eurofighter Typhoon is the world’s leading air defence and ground attack aircraft with full multi and swing-role capabilities.






The combination of the airframe performance, advanced human-machine-interface, powerful engines and ground-breaking technology gives Eurofighter Typhoon pilots the edge in today’s competitive digital battlefield. The interoperability, durability, resilience, safety record, reliability and enhancements of the platform ensure that both performance and value are delivered without compromise.

*UNRIVALLED FLEXIBILITY
















Air Superiority
Swing-role
Air Interdiction
Close Air Support*
Eurofighter Typhoon is the only fighter available on the market able to offer such wide-ranging operational capabilities, while at the same time delivering unparalleled fleet readiness.
The ability to simultaneously support both Air-to-Air and Air-to-Surface scenarios allows the fleet to be used for the widest range of operations. At the same time, the design focus on high reliability, low maintenance and the ease of upgrading systems means the aircraft have the maximum possible availability.

*SWING-ROLE*





As well as offering leading-edge multi-role capabilities, Eurofighter Typhoon is a high performance swing-role weapon system capable of combining different operational tasks in a single mission at very short notice.

*AGILE PERFORMANCE*



Unmatched kinetic effect
Eurofighter Typhoon has a foreplane delta design, which is inherently – and intentionally –aerodynamically unstable in subsonic flight. This was developed with experienced pilots to provide enhanced manoeuvrability while still being highly intuitive to fly.
The instability in subsonic flight requires a complex flight control system to support the pilot as the computer systems can react more quickly at lower speeds. When Eurofighter Typhoon crosses into supersonic flight, the point of instability moves behind the centre of gravity, giving a stable aircraft for high performance flight.
The advantages of an intentionally unstable design include greater agility at subsonic speeds as well as reduced drag and an overall increase in lift for enhanced short takeoff and landing (STOL) performance. Proposed engine enhancements such as vectored thrust will further boost the agility of the aircraft.

*AIR-TO-AIR CAPABILITIES*





Delivering air superiority in a battle environment determines how quickly and safely other operational tasks can be met. Eurofighter Typhoon provides air superiority effectively in both beyond visual range (BVR) and close in combat (CIC) scenarios.

*AIR-TO-SURFACE CAPABILITIES*





Eurofighter Typhoon is ideally suited to Close Air Support as it can remain on task for long periods with large, flexible weapon loads, such as Paveway IV and the Brimstone Air-to-Surface precision attack weapon. The sophisticated sensor suite including Datalink and Laser Designator Pod (LDP) allows close co-ordination with ground commanders and the identification of individual targets, while the high manoeuvrability enables effective operations over the battlefield.

*INTEROPERABILITY*



Eurofighter Typhoon works seamlessly with other aircraft and ground systems
The unique heritage of multiple customers means the Eurofighter Typhoon platform was designed to be interoperable with the widest range of aircraft and other ground systems, providing the maximum flexibility for any Air Force. Eurofighter Typhoon works seamlessly and in real-time with both ground control and other aircraft types in combat, defence, surveillance and monitoring scenarios.

*STEALTH ABILITIES*



Eurofighter Typhoon has a reduced radar signature
Leading technology materials and design provide Eurofighter Typhoon with a reduced radar signature, while its superior avionic processing speeds, aerodynamic agility and beyond visual range (BVR) capabilities enable it to operate effectively while avoiding detection.

*BEYOND VISUAL RANGE*



Eurofighter Typhoon is capable of using beyond visual range weapons
Being able to operate beyond visual range (BVR) is a key advantage of Eurofighter Typhoon. Remaining outside visual detection and able to use the latest BVR weapons controlled by the aircraft’s leading-edge sensor suite allows operations with maximum safety and accuracy.

*RADAR*



The Captor-E AESA Radar
The upgrade of the radar to CAPTOR-E will bring significant operational benefits. The design of the airframe allows Eurofighter Typhoon to deliver the largest electronically scanned array for increased detection and tracking ranges, advanced Air-to-Surface capability and enhanced electronic protection measures. The large airframe also allows a wider field of regard than any other platform.

*SAFETY*



Eurofighter Typhoon’s safety record is unrivaled

Eurofighter Typhoon has an unparalleled safety record. Proven in battle and hostile environments, it is designed to keep its pilots safe and operational. The leading-edge sensor technology delivers unprecedented accuracy for both Air-to-air and air-to-surface operations in all weather conditions.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> I dunno why its important for BAF to have an "MRCA" with 2 engines.
> 
> 32-48 single engine multirole fighters should be the priority.
> 
> Not 16 twin engine ones.




Against our primary adversary we can not compete in numbers.

Also in our current trajectory survivability of our assests are low.

Deterrence would only come from having the ability to land a decisive first punch. For this single engine lacks range, firepower, speed and service ceiling to make a difference against enemy assests.

This is why I personally of the opinion that 16 twin engine jets are better than 32-48 jets that can not take the fight to the enemy. For these fighters they need to remain primarily within BD sky and eventually will be taken out easily by enemy assets. The twin engined jet in this case EFT if we get it will negate everything in indian arsenal..... where money is an issue get the best but lower in number because the superior tech and capabilities they bring are force multipliers.

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## F-6 enthusiast

i hope yall saved the DEFSECA posts about why rafale isn't coming. Don't be surprised if he starts posting about Rafale from now on.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Against our primary adversary we can not compete in numbers.
> 
> Also in our current trajectory survivability of our assests are low.
> 
> Deterrence would only come from having the ability to land a decisive first punch. For this single engine lacks range, firepower, speed and service ceiling to make a difference against enemy assests.
> 
> This is why I personally of the opinion that 16 twin engine jets are better than 32-48 jets that can not take the fight to the enemy. For these fighters they need to remain primarily within BD sky and eventually will be taken out easily by enemy assets. The twin engined jet in this case EFT if we get it will negate everything in indian arsenal..... where money is an issue get the best but lower in number because the superior tech and capabilities they bring are force multipliers.



Don't buy that.

BAF needs an overhaul.

16 new planes won't cut it.

Several squadrons need to be replaced to have any sort of credible capability.

Also, look at the example of Taiwan.

Completely outnumbered.

Yet they favor their F-16s and are in fact getting more.

Or Sweden and their Gripen against a therotical Russian threat.

Both single engined.

Both cheap, modern and able to be used in numbers.

Anyways though, at this point anything BAF gets is an improvement.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Don't buy that.
> 
> BAF needs an overhaul.
> 
> 16 new planes won't cut it.
> 
> Several squadrons need to be replaced to have any sort of credible capability.
> 
> Also, look at the example of Taiwan.
> 
> Completely outnumbered.
> 
> Yet they favor their F-16s and are in fact getting more.
> 
> Or Sweden and their Gripen against a therotical Russian threat.
> 
> Both single engined.
> 
> Both cheap, modern and able to be used in numbers.
> 
> Anyways though, at this point anything BAF gets is an improvement.



Taiwan is not facing raffles and US potentially has their back.

Sweden has western backing.

BD has none. 16 EFT would represent a credible challenge beyond BD border. F16/Grippen dont.
As i said only stategy BD has is the threat of massive first strike. BD can not hold the skies longterm without minimum 10 sqd of 4 plus jets backed by SAM network and proper infastructure. None of these we have.... With what we can efford quality over quantity is a no brainer. 16 EFT is not enough but offers the best bang for our bucks.


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Against our primary adversary we can not compete in numbers.
> 
> Also in our current trajectory survivability of our assests are low.
> 
> Deterrence would only come from having the ability to land a decisive first punch. For this single engine lacks range, firepower, speed and service ceiling to make a difference against enemy assests.
> 
> This is why I personally of the opinion that 16 twin engine jets are better than 32-48 jets that can not take the fight to the enemy. For these fighters they need to remain primarily within BD sky and eventually will be taken out easily by enemy assets. The twin engined jet in this case EFT if we get it will negate everything in indian arsenal..... where money is an issue get the best but lower in number because the superior tech and capabilities they bring are force multipliers.


Bro you won’t have 16 fighters operational at all times
Mig 29s burn through a quarter of their fuel load on takeoff… and 4 available at any one time 🤷🏻‍♂️
if you’re talking about 36 EFT then yeah sure that’s a good level of fighters for deterrence but 16 won’t do squat.
You’ll still need single engine for interception, scramble and patrol duties

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

France is reading to sell Rafael fighter jet to BD for 2030 modernization plan.


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## PDF

Michael Corleone said:


> Bro you won’t have 16 fighters operational at all times
> Mig 29s burn through a quarter of their fuel load on takeoff… and 4 available at any one time 🤷🏻‍♂️
> if you’re talking about 36 EFT then yeah sure that’s a good level of fighters for deterrence but 16 won’t do squat.
> You’ll still need single engine for interception, scramble and patrol duties


I think F-7BGIs shall keep flying for this current decade. 
I don't care which platform is inducted, I am starting to question if there will even be any induction or we all are being given lollipop?

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## Michael Corleone

PDF said:


> I think F-7BGIs shall keep flying for this current decade.
> I don't care which platform is inducted, I am starting to question if there will even be any induction or we all are being given lollipop?


Yep exactly. Bgi will be able to serve till 2040s if mb service life is anything to go by. 
rest assured we will be 2 generations behind airforce as usual.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> 16 new planes won't cut it.


This group of 16 units will certainly be increased in the future when more pilots are trained and more money is in the coffer. This will be only the beginning.

BAF needs planes without political attachments. F-16 cannot be operated without the US nod. Migs are fuel-burner. Chinese planes are weak. So, the Typhoon could be a better choice.

Its fuel, operating and maintenance costs are quite low compared to other planes. The only issue remains to get the right pilots in the BAF to operate the planes. Please note that not every pilot has the same brilliant brain and keen eyes. So, there will be a selection process among the pilots.

I believe, if the BAF has already finalized the purchase of Typhoon, then BAF pilots are already taking the training in the exporting country. Here also there should be a selection procedure to get the best Aces. So, suddenly BAF should not buy many squadrons at a time. 

The number of planes is less important than the functionality of the planes, and the number can be increased gradually. This is what I think.

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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> This group of 16 units will certainly be increased in the future when more pilots are trained and more money is in the coffer. This will be only the beginning.
> 
> BAF needs planes without political attachments. F-16 cannot be operated without the US nod. Migs are fuel-burner. Chinese planes are weak. So, the Typhoon could be a better choice.
> 
> Its fuel, operating and maintenance costs are quite low compared to other planes. The only issue remains to get the right pilots in the BAF to operate the planes. Please note that not every pilot has the same brilliant brain and keen eyes. So, there will be a selection process among the pilots.
> 
> I believe, if the BAF has already finalized the purchase of Typhoon, then BAF pilots are already taking the training in the exporting country. Here also there should be a selection procedure to get the best Aces. So, suddenly BAF should not buy many squadrons at a time.
> 
> The number of planes is less important than the functionality of the planes, and the number can be increased gradually. This is what I think.



Agree with you about the pilots.

Look, its not rocket science.

See how elite air forces select candidates.

And copy.

Incentivize individuals to become fighter pilots.

I mean at the foundation is the question:

Does the government of Bangladesh care enough to execute.

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Bro you won’t have 16 fighters operational at all times
> Mig 29s burn through a quarter of their fuel load on takeoff… and 4 available at any one time 🤷🏻‍♂️
> if you’re talking about 36 EFT then yeah sure that’s a good level of fighters for deterrence but 16 won’t do squat.
> You’ll still need single engine for interception, scramble and patrol duties




Yes sure.... but i bring you back to point...F16 or Grippen will lose to raffle in air to air combat with all other factors such as tactics, pilot training, luck etc being equal.

When you bring EFT into play on the same basis raffle lose every time.

When you can not match numbers.... quality is the only fallback you have.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Yes sure.... but i bring you back to point...F16 or Grippen will lose to raffle in air to air combat with all other factors such as tactics, pilot training, luck etc being equal.
> 
> When you bring EFT into play on the same basis raffle lose every time.
> 
> When you can not match numbers.... quality is the only fallback you have.



You can't make that statement with any sort of worth.

There are SO many things that go into an engagement that determines outcome in air combat.

An F-16 or Gripen can absolutely take down a Rafale in any given engagement.

Too many factors go into it.

But the benefit of having the Viper or Gripen?

More of them.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> You can't make that statement with any sort of worth.
> 
> There are SO many things that go into an engagement that determines outcome in air combat.
> 
> An F-16 or Gripen can absolutely take down a Rafale in any given engagement.
> 
> Too many factors go into it.
> 
> But the benefit of having the Viper or Gripen?
> 
> More of them.




I fundamentally disagree with you and we will have to leave it at that.


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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Yes sure.... but i bring you back to point...F16 or Grippen will lose to raffle in air to air combat with all other factors such as tactics, pilot training, luck etc being equal.
> 
> When you bring EFT into play on the same basis raffle lose every time.
> 
> When you can not match numbers.... quality is the only fallback you have.


How do you come to the conclusion that f16 and gripens can’t win against rafale? 🤔


Avicenna said:


> Agree with you about the pilots.
> 
> Look, its not rocket science.
> 
> See how elite air forces select candidates.
> 
> And copy.
> 
> Incentivize individuals to become fighter pilots.
> 
> I mean at the foundation is the question:
> 
> Does the government of Bangladesh care enough to execute.


Who knows maybe we will have cadets trained for new MRCA from RAF. 
Already had a cadet graduated from RAF recently and he won the best international cadet award so maybe that’s a hint to the future.

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> How do you come to the conclusion that f16 and gripens can’t win against rafale? 🤔
> 
> Who knows maybe we will have cadets trained for new MRCA from RAF.
> Already had a cadet graduated from RAF recently and he won the best international cadet award so maybe that’s a hint to the future.




Rafale is a completely different class of aircraft to Gripen or the F16. There is no comparison worth making.

I am similarly unclear why you would think either can win against the rafale when each is slower, has lower service ceiling, lower range, lower hard points etc....

Tactics, situational awareness, pilot skils and sheer luck will matter.... but taking these aside on paper there is no scenario rafale looses to gripen/F16.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> Rafale is a completely different class of aircraft to Gripen or the F16. There is no comparison worth making.
> 
> I am similarly unclear why you would think either can win against the rafale when each is slower, has lower service ceiling, lower range, lower hard points etc....
> 
> Tactics, situational awareness, pilot skils and sheer luck will matter.... but taking these aside on paper there is no scenario rafale looses to gripen/F16.


Because I wouldn’t pit one planes superiority over another based on low range, low payload but kinematic performances that actually matters in a dogfight.


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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Rafale is a completely different class of aircraft to Gripen or the F16. There is no comparison worth making.
> 
> *I am similarly unclear why you would think either can win against the rafale when each is slower, has lower service ceiling, lower range, lower hard points etc....*
> 
> Tactics, situational awareness, pilot skils and sheer luck will matter.... but taking these aside on paper* there is no scenario rafale looses to gripen/F16.*



I'm not sure how you come to your conclusions.

In the below, the SU-27 is faster, can fly higher, has more hard points.

Every fighter has its pros and cons.

Again its more the totality of systems at play than any individual fighter type.

An F-16, F-18, F-15, Gripen, or even Mig or Sukhoi can absolutely down a Rafale.

And vice versa.

The point I'm trying to make is I'd much rather have 32 of 4+ gen fighter than 16.









PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF


A report details the performance of PLAAF aircraft in Falcon Strike 2015.




www.ainonline.com





*PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF*


An early December 2019 report from inside of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) reveals previously unreleased technical details of People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) Russian-built Su-27s losing a majority of engagements in a November 2015 joint exercise with the 701 Fighter Squadron of the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF). This Thai unit operates eight Saab JAS-39C and four JAS-39D Gripens.
The engagements, known as Falcon Strike 2015, were the first of three such exercises and were detailed in a lecture given by one of the PLAAF’s most heavily decorated pilots, Senior Colonel Li Chunghua Hua (李中華), at the PRC’s Northwestern Polytechnical University (西北工业大学) in Xi’an, Shaanxi Province.
Li is described as one of the most experienced Sukhoi Su-27SK/J-11A pilots in the PLAAF with some 3,200 hours in fast jets, much of them in the Russian-made Sukhoi. His revelations are unprecedented and are assessed by US intelligence as demonstrating a growing concern within the officer corps over deficiencies with the training regime for the PLAAF’s pilot cadre.
These first exercises ran at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base and showed the advantages of the smaller and more technologically-advanced Gripen over the Russian Sukhoi. Several of Li’s summations from the exercise are:

The JAS-39 performance was at its worst inside the within visual range (WVR) envelope. Over a two-day period, PLAAF pilots shot down 25 Gripens at a loss of only one Su-27. The Su-27 has an advantage over the performance of the JAS-39 due to its more powerful Salyut AL-31F engines, and the Swedish aircraft was handicapped in that it was equipped with the older-generation AIM-9L Sidewinder instead of the current-generation Diehl IRIS-T missile.
Once the exercise transitioned to beyond visual range (BVR) combat, the superiority of the JAS-39 became readily apparent. The Swedish aircraft shot down 41 Su-27s over a period of four days with a loss of only nine JAS-39s.
The Su-27s flown by the PLAAF were operating with a modified version of the NIIP N001 radar that could fire the Vympel RVV-AE active-homing air-to-air missile (AAM). But its effective detection range was only 120km in comparison with the JAS-39’s Ericsson PS-05/A at 160km. The Gripen’s Raytheon AIM-120 AAM also outranged the RVV-AE at 80km versus only 50 km for the Russian missile.
Li stated that the JAS-39C/D’s much smaller radar cross-section (RCS) at 1.5-2.0 m2 was a major factor, as the much larger Su-27 is easier to detect at 12 sq miles. The JAS-39 can also ripple-fire up to four AIM-120s simultaneously but the Su-27 can fire only one RVV-AE at a time.
Gripen achieved 88 percent of its kills at 19 miles or greater, while the Su-27 had just 14 percent of its kills at this range. The RTAF also had 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles compared with zero long-distance kills by the Su-27.
In subsequent exercises the PLAAF fared better by sending the Chengdu J-10A - and then in 2019 the J-10C - in place of the Su-27. Li pointed out that the J-10C was more of a match for the JAS-39C/D in that “its active array radar significantly improves detection distance and multi-target attack capability, the DSI (divertless) air intake of the J-10C reduces the radar intercept area while the PL-15 missile increases the range, making it an over-the-horizon platform.”
Li also commented that the next-generation version of the Gripen, the JAS-39E, is likely to feature even more advanced combat performance. His interest in the aircraft parallels a larger body of analysis within the PLA intelligence community that has had a fixation on the design and development of the Gripen as a template for PRC industry to follow.

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## mb444

Michael Corleone said:


> Because I wouldn’t pit one planes superiority over another based on low range, low payload but kinematic performances that actually matters in a dogfight.




In dog fight mode Rafale is superior to Gripen and F16.....if such a thing actually takes place as rafale would release its BVR missiles much earlier than either of those jets.

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## Michael Corleone

mb444 said:


> In dog fight mode Rafale is superior to Gripen and F16.....if such a thing actually takes place as rafale would release its BVR missiles much earlier than either of those jets.


Why do you think f16s and gripens radars are inferior to rafale. Frankly there’s no data publicly available to make this conclusion.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> I'm not sure how you come to your conclusions.
> 
> In the below, the SU-27 is faster, can fly higher, has more hard points.
> 
> Every fighter has its pros and cons.
> 
> Again its more the totality of systems at play than any individual fighter type.
> 
> An F-16, F-18, F-15, Gripen, or even Mig or Sukhoi can absolutely down a Rafale.
> 
> And vice versa.
> 
> The point I'm trying to make is I'd much rather have 32 of 4+ gen fighter than 16.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF
> 
> 
> A report details the performance of PLAAF aircraft in Falcon Strike 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ainonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF*
> 
> 
> An early December 2019 report from inside of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) reveals previously unreleased technical details of People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) Russian-built Su-27s losing a majority of engagements in a November 2015 joint exercise with the 701 Fighter Squadron of the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF). This Thai unit operates eight Saab JAS-39C and four JAS-39D Gripens.
> The engagements, known as Falcon Strike 2015, were the first of three such exercises and were detailed in a lecture given by one of the PLAAF’s most heavily decorated pilots, Senior Colonel Li Chunghua Hua (李中華), at the PRC’s Northwestern Polytechnical University (西北工业大学) in Xi’an, Shaanxi Province.
> Li is described as one of the most experienced Sukhoi Su-27SK/J-11A pilots in the PLAAF with some 3,200 hours in fast jets, much of them in the Russian-made Sukhoi. His revelations are unprecedented and are assessed by US intelligence as demonstrating a growing concern within the officer corps over deficiencies with the training regime for the PLAAF’s pilot cadre.
> These first exercises ran at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base and showed the advantages of the smaller and more technologically-advanced Gripen over the Russian Sukhoi. Several of Li’s summations from the exercise are:
> 
> The JAS-39 performance was at its worst inside the within visual range (WVR) envelope. Over a two-day period, PLAAF pilots shot down 25 Gripens at a loss of only one Su-27. The Su-27 has an advantage over the performance of the JAS-39 due to its more powerful Salyut AL-31F engines, and the Swedish aircraft was handicapped in that it was equipped with the older-generation AIM-9L Sidewinder instead of the current-generation Diehl IRIS-T missile.
> Once the exercise transitioned to beyond visual range (BVR) combat, the superiority of the JAS-39 became readily apparent. The Swedish aircraft shot down 41 Su-27s over a period of four days with a loss of only nine JAS-39s.
> The Su-27s flown by the PLAAF were operating with a modified version of the NIIP N001 radar that could fire the Vympel RVV-AE active-homing air-to-air missile (AAM). But its effective detection range was only 120km in comparison with the JAS-39’s Ericsson PS-05/A at 160km. The Gripen’s Raytheon AIM-120 AAM also outranged the RVV-AE at 80km versus only 50 km for the Russian missile.
> Li stated that the JAS-39C/D’s much smaller radar cross-section (RCS) at 1.5-2.0 m2 was a major factor, as the much larger Su-27 is easier to detect at 12 sq miles. The JAS-39 can also ripple-fire up to four AIM-120s simultaneously but the Su-27 can fire only one RVV-AE at a time.
> Gripen achieved 88 percent of its kills at 19 miles or greater, while the Su-27 had just 14 percent of its kills at this range. The RTAF also had 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles compared with zero long-distance kills by the Su-27.
> In subsequent exercises the PLAAF fared better by sending the Chengdu J-10A - and then in 2019 the J-10C - in place of the Su-27. Li pointed out that the J-10C was more of a match for the JAS-39C/D in that “its active array radar significantly improves detection distance and multi-target attack capability, the DSI (divertless) air intake of the J-10C reduces the radar intercept area while the PL-15 missile increases the range, making it an over-the-horizon platform.”
> Li also commented that the next-generation version of the Gripen, the JAS-39E, is likely to feature even more advanced combat performance. His interest in the aircraft parallels a larger body of analysis within the PLA intelligence community that has had a fixation on the design and development of the Gripen as a template for PRC industry to follow.





As i said we will have to agree to disagree.

I agree with general orthodoxy that heirarchy in western jets when it comes to air supremacy is as follows:

F35, F22, EFT, FA 18E/F, Rafale, F16V, GRIPEN...

The only point of contention is F22 was designed for air supremacy whilst F35 is multirole so F22 is strictly better. However its build phase has ended whilst F35s evolution continues thus is normally placed first.

I have no issue with you having a contrary view.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Flankers have inferior radar and missile technology if it were to have western level avionics, it would have triumphed over any western 4th gen aircraft.
A better comparison would be F-15C vs F-16C. imagine these two go against each other, with AIM-120C5
F-15 can climb to a higher altitude where the air is thinner and launch the AMRAAM. The Eagle has a higher top speed and thrust to weight ratio. So when it launches the AMRAAM, it will have higher kinetic energy = greater range than if an F-16 launches an AMRAAM.

Another thing is that the eagle can direct more electrical power to its radar (because of power generated by two engines) which may result in longer detection ranges.

The eagle costs 22,000 USD/hour to run vs 7000 USD/hour

Single engine fighters can always use certain tactics or technology (EW) to negate the advantage but a double engined opponent *at the same technological level* will be hard to beat.

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## bluesky

PDF said:


> I think F-7BGIs shall keep flying for this current decade.
> I don't care which platform is inducted, I am starting to question if there will even be any induction or we all are being given lollipop?


PAF is using F-7PG and IAF still using its older Mig-21s, from which F-7 actually derived. However, some of our people are fond of telling BAF is *for REPLACING* its newly inducted F-7BGs. There was a time when Mig-21s were called poor man's F-16, technologically it was so advanced. F-BGI is more advanced.

I feel it is very strange when they say this, but the reality is all the F-7BGs will be working in the BAF for a few more years or at least one decade and many new jets will be added to the BAF fleet during this period.
Some more information on Typhoon, from the internet source:





__





Eurofighter Typhoon | The world's most advanced fighter aircraft


Discover the systems, technologies and infrastructure of the Eurofighter Typhoon; the world's most powerful and reliable swing-role fighter aircraft.




www.eurofighter.com

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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> PAF is using F-7PG and IAF still using its older Mig-21s, from which F-7 actually derived. However, some of our people are fond of telling BAF is *for REPLACING* its newly inducted F-7BGs. There was a time when Mig-21s were called poor man's F-16, technologically it was so advanced. F-BGI is more advanced.
> 
> I feel it is very strange when they say this, but the reality is all the F-7BGs will be working in the BAF for a few more years or at least one decade and many new jets will be added to the BAF fleet during this period.
> Some more information on Typhoon, from the internet source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eurofighter Typhoon | The world's most advanced fighter aircraft
> 
> 
> Discover the systems, technologies and infrastructure of the Eurofighter Typhoon; the world's most powerful and reliable swing-role fighter aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eurofighter.com



F-7BG and BGI are new.

They will be around for quite awhile.

But BAF really should improve its capabilities.

Even Myanmar can field a fire and forget BVR missile.

Bangladesh has no such capability.

Forget about matching India.

So BAF has ALOT of work capability gap to overcome.

Instead of replacing F-7, supplement.

BAF only really has 2 full strength squadrons (F-7) and one half strength (Mig-29).

Why not attempt to field 4-5 full strength squadrons as a goal.

What is happening with Sylhet and Barisal air bases?


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## Abid123

Eurofighter would simply be too expensive for Bangladesh. You can say the same for Pakistan. Countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh whom have limited resources most make the most out of their money. 2.5 Billion USD for only 16 fighter jets? Waste of money. 

In my opinion the best fighter jet for BAF would be the 4.5th generation J-10C. J-10C deploys what is arguably considered the most advanced and capable long range air to air missile in the world the PL-15. The J-10C is one of just two non-Russian fighters classes with enhanced manoeuvrability due to thrust vectoring engines, and the only one with three dimensional thrust vectoring. PL-15 is the only major air to air missile class itself to integrate an AESA radar, and while this makes them expensive it also makes them much more reliable and difficult to jam.

JF-17 block 2 costs around 30 million USD so the J-10C should cost around 60 million USD. For 3 billion USD BAF can get 50 J-10C. In my opinion that is much much better than just 16 Eurofighter for 2.5 billion USD. Not to mention how expensive it would be to maintain the Eurofighter.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> F-7BG and BGI are new.
> 
> They will be around for quite awhile.
> 
> But BAF really should improve its capabilities.
> 
> Even Myanmar can field a fire and forget BVR missile.
> 
> Bangladesh has no such capability.
> 
> Forget about matching India.
> 
> So BAF has ALOT of work capability gap to overcome.


*Criticism[edit]*
"The efficacy of BVR air-to-air missiles has been criticized. The increased success rate of BVR combat during Operation Desert Storm may have significantly depended on other factors, such as assistance of AWACS, NCTR system of F-15Cs, as well as enemy incompetence. One major issue with BVR is still unreliable IFF technology (Identification friend or foe)".[3][4]

Please read the wiki excerpt. I have read in quite a few places that BVR is not that important as we tend to think. An air combat may see as usual the close dog fights also in the future wars.

There is no past record that BVRAAMs have killed many planes. When they did so there were many other reasons for the success. There are still ways to dodge a BVR missile by dropping multiple flares and others.

So, finally, a battle is decided by the technic and bravery shown by a pilot in dog fights. BVRAAM is not a sure success. So, I do not think if well-trained, our pilots cannot match MAF planes with BVRAAM.


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## Avicenna

bluesky said:


> *Criticism[edit]*
> The efficacy of BVR air-to-air missiles has been criticized. The increased success rate of BVR combat during Operation Desert Storm may have significantly depended on other factors, such as assistance of AWACS, NCTR system of F-15Cs, as well as enemy incompetence. One major issue with BVR is still unreliable IFF technology (Identification friend or foe).[3][4]
> 
> Please read the wiki excerpt. I have read in quite a few places that BVR is not that important as we tend to think. An air combat may see as usual the close dog fights also in the future wars.
> 
> There is no past record that BVRAAMs have killed many planes. When they did so there were many other reasons for the success. There are still ways to dodge a BVR missile by dropping multiple flares and others.
> 
> So, finally, a battle is decided by the technic and bravery shown by a pilot in dog fights. BVRAAM is not a sure success. So, I do not think if well-trained, our pilots cannot match MAF planes with BVRAAM.



Enjoy!



https://csbaonline.org/uploads/documents/Air-to-Air-Report-.pdf

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## Great Janjua

BAF is looking way too high for its MRCA procurement forget about typhoons they are maintenance money chuggers. Rather you should be considering these 3 fighters at best anything beyond these platforms is money wasted.

F-16 block 72
J-10 CE
Gripen E

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## UKBengali

Great Janjua said:


> BAF is looking way too high for its MRCA procurement forget about typhoons they are maintenance money chuggers. Rather you should be considering these 3 fighters at best anything beyond these platforms is money wasted.
> 
> F-16 block 72
> J-10 CE
> Gripen E




Actually new Typhoons are almost as cheap to operate as F-16s.

The old fighters were maintenance and operational cost heavy.

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## Destranator

UKBengali said:


> Actually new Typhoons are almost as cheap to operate as F-16s.


Wow...really? Any online sources for details?


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## UKBengali

Destranator said:


> Wow...really? Any online sources for details?












UK to drive down Typhoon operating costs to match F-16


The UK Royal Air Force is to enhance the capability of its Eurofighter Typhoons by using money saved via a new in-service support model for the multirole type.




www.flightglobal.com

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> UK to drive down Typhoon operating costs to match F-16
> 
> 
> The UK Royal Air Force is to enhance the capability of its Eurofighter Typhoons by using money saved via a new in-service support model for the multirole type.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.flightglobal.com


interesting @Destranator 
This ministry of Defence (UK) document states per hour flight cost of ~4700 £/hour
tornado airframes cost more apparently.






91.1 million £/19650 hours = £4636/Hour = $6374.96/hour

source Number of flying hours and maintenance costs for the Typhoon and Tornado fleets between financial years 2014 and 2016 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

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## Michael Corleone

Abid123 said:


> Eurofighter would simply be too expensive for Bangladesh. You can say the same for Pakistan. Countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh whom have limited resources most make the most out of their money. 2.5 Billion USD for only 16 fighter jets? Waste of money.
> 
> In my opinion the best fighter jet for BAF would be the 4.5th generation J-10C. J-10C deploys what is arguably considered the most advanced and capable long range air to air missile in the world the PL-15. The J-10C is one of just two non-Russian fighters classes with enhanced manoeuvrability due to thrust vectoring engines, and the only one with three dimensional thrust vectoring. PL-15 is the only major air to air missile class itself to integrate an AESA radar, and while this makes them expensive it also makes them much more reliable and difficult to jam.
> 
> JF-17 block 2 costs around 30 million USD so the J-10C should cost around 60 million USD. For 3 billion USD BAF can get 50 J-10C. In my opinion that is much much better than just 16 Eurofighter for 2.5 billion USD. Not to mention how expensive it would be to maintain the Eurofighter.


There you go. 50 is more than enough for bd. Given 50% operational


UKBengali said:


> Actually new Typhoons are almost as cheap to operate as F-16s.
> 
> The old fighters were maintenance and operational cost heavy.


You could keep an f16 near the slum. EFT would need specialized weather controlled hangars


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## UKBengali

Michael Corleone said:


> You could keep an f16 near the slum. EFT would need specialized weather controlled hangars






Yes, initial infrastruture costs would be higher but it is a one-off cost that would last decades.

Typhoon would be more expensive to buy, operate and maintain than F-16 but it justifies this with superior capabilities. In air-to-air mode as an example I would take 4 Typhoons over 6 F-16s any day of the week.

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## bluesky

- About Hangars for the Typhoon planes, I would like to propose UNDERGROUND HANGERS near or inside the mountains in Sylhet and the Chittagong Hill Tracts.

- Dhaka has no such place but Savar and some other places have hills that can also be used for underground hangars.

- I also propose the newly acquired and other fighter planes be kept in different underground hangers and not in one place called Dhaka and also in the open with a tin shade. A single missile attack will destroy this kind of open shelter.

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## Michael Corleone

bluesky said:


> - About Hangars for the Typhoon planes, I would like to propose UNDERGROUND HANGERS near or inside the mountains in Sylhet and the Chittagong Hill Tracts.
> 
> - Dhaka has no such place but Savar and some other places have hills that can also be used for underground hangars.
> 
> - I also propose the newly acquired and other fighter planes be kept in different underground hangers and not in one place called Dhaka and also in the open with a tin shade. A single missile attack will destroy this kind of open shelter.


American bunker busters can penned through saddam’s underground facilities. CHT is just mud hills if I’m not mistaken. Makes No sense. Rather invest in good early warning and SAM systems. and training. Scramble under 5mins should be priority

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## bluesky

bluesky said:


> - About Hangars for the Typhoon planes, I would like to propose UNDERGROUND HANGERS near or inside the mountains in Sylhet and the Chittagong Hill Tracts.
> 
> - Dhaka has no such place but Savar and some other places have hills that can also be used for underground hangars.
> 
> - I also propose the newly acquired and other fighter planes be kept in different underground hangers and not in one place called Dhaka and also in the open with a tin shade. A single missile attack will destroy this kind of open shelter.


A proposal for onstructing underground hangars for the BAF planes is nothing new. Please read what *wiki* says about this type of hangar. People should study positively.

Wiki's partial report on this:

"An *underground hangar* is a type of hangar for military aircraft, usually dug into the side of a mountain for protection. It is bigger and more protected than a hardened aircraft shelter (HAS)".

"An underground hangar complex may include tunnels containing the normal elements of a military air base - fuel storage, weapon storage, rooms for maintaining the aircraft systems, a communications centre, briefing rooms, kitchen, dining rooms, sleeping areas and generators for electrical power".

"Countries that have used underground hangars include Albania, China, India, Pakistan, Italy, North Korea, Norway, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Vietnam, and Yugoslavia".

We must keep our planes safe from a sudden missile attack. Hangars on the open are not safe.


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## Michael Corleone

Guess what now guys… BAF chief went to Russia to visit sukhoi production line and flight test sukhoi fighter 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
we’re back to square one? If we aren’t, why does he have to go there to evaluate. Could do evaluation in that air show they’ve been talking about.

anyways. We’re bonded in this clusterfuck forever

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Guess what now guys… BAF chief went to Russia to visit sukhoi production line and flight test sukhoi fighter 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
> we’re back to square one? If we aren’t, why does he have to go there to evaluate. Could do evaluation in that air show they’ve been talking about.
> 
> anyways. We’re bonded in this clusterfuck forever


he'll be visiting the Mil helicopter factory so it could be about attack helos.
I'm hopeful about the Defence dialogue with the UK , BD will have this year. Americans have done us a big favour by introducing CATSAA.

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## bluesky

F-6 enthusiast said:


> CATSAA


What is this?


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## F-6 enthusiast

bluesky said:


> What is this?


if some countries buy Russian arms , they will get sanctioned like Turkey 

Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act - Wikipedia

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if some countries buy Russian arms , they will get sanctioned like Turkey
> 
> Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act - Wikipedia


Can overcome it if we flip against China though. Just like india

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Can overcome it if we flip against China though. Just like india


S-400 and subs are the only things worth getting from Russia(better western alternatives exist for other weapons ) and those are too high profile to the point where the EU+US might not like it.

Bro no need to flip against anyone though , lets keep a low profile only flip when necessary. It's good to have options we don't have to *gamble *(maybe there's a better word for it) like our foolish neighbours have done.

some ppl on the internet said that BKZ was in favour of giving a logistical naval base to the US , it could be some conspiracy theory idk.

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## Avicenna

Nothing to do with BAF.

But Enjoy!

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## bluesky

F-6 enthusiast said:


> if some countries buy Russian arms , they will get sanctioned like Turkey
> 
> Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act - Wikipedia


Turkey is a NATO member. yet, Erdogan dared to betray the NATO allies and bought Russian missiles, probably S-400. So, Turkey is under talk-only sanction for now.

But BD with a poor record of manufacturing any weapons may be a different story.

BD remains a poor country to buy expensive American weapons. But America is asking BD to buy from them. BD may comply with it because its exports to America are more than $6billion. So, there must be reciprocity. However, no one knows what BD will buy.


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## F-6 enthusiast

bluesky said:


> Turkey is a NATO member. yet, Erdogan dared to betray the NATO allies and bought Russian missiles, probably S-400. So, Turkey is under talk-only sanction for now.
> 
> But BD with a poor record of manufacturing any weapons may be a different story.
> 
> BD remains a poor country to buy expensive American weapons. But America is asking BD to buy from them. BD may comply with it because its exports to America are more than $6billion. So, there must be reciprocity. However, no one knows what BD will buy.


American jets are cheaper than Russian in the long run (except for f-35) , and cheaper than european alternatives to procure because of economies of scale. Bd can afford F-16V.

Russian/Eastern fighters require heavy maintenance (like indian su-30mki that has a vey low availability rate) and have to sit in the hanger most of the time. They are less fuel efficient (this is by design to have high TWR). Western engines have have longer lives and require less overhauls throughout their service life.

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## Bilal9

bluesky said:


> Turkey is a NATO member. yet, Erdogan dared to betray the NATO allies and bought Russian missiles, probably S-400. So, Turkey is under talk-only sanction for now.
> 
> But BD with a poor record of manufacturing any weapons may be a different story.
> 
> BD remains a poor country to buy expensive American weapons. But America is asking BD to buy from them. BD may comply with it because its exports to America are more than $6billion. So, there must be reciprocity. However, no one knows what BD will buy.





F-6 enthusiast said:


> American jets are cheaper than Russian in the long run (except for f-35) , and cheaper than european alternatives to procure because of economies of scale. Bd can afford F-16V.



F-16V seems like a not-so-distant possibility for BAF. Indonesian Air Force is planning to get two squadrons of F-16 Block 70/72 (or F16V).

When it comes to air-support defence, you gotta spend money, going cheap on air-support would be foolhardy.

MiG 29's used to be cheap. The newer MiG-35 not so much.

F16V upper end costs $35 Million apiece (all inclusive), The Mig-35 is around $30 Million a copy.

And forget about Su-35s. Out of sight.

US also offers Hercs with refueling capability and there are few comparable options for BAF. Those Hercs are foundational utility backbones for any airforce.

I don't think we are getting Apaches though. Turkish T129s are a more plausible option (once they sort out the local engine production thing).

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## Indos

Bilal9 said:


> F-16V seems like a not-so-distant possibility for BAF. Indonesian Air Force is planning to get two squadrons of F-16 Block 70/72 (or F16V).
> 
> When it comes to air-support defence, you gotta spend money, going cheap on air-support would be foolhardy.
> 
> MiG 29's used to be cheap. The newer MiG-35 not so much.
> 
> F16V upper end costs $35 Million apiece (all inclusive), The Mig-35 is around $30 Million a copy.



F 16 V I believe will be around 70-90 million USD. 35 million USD per plane is only for planes like T 50 Golden Eagle from Korea.

We are not yet deciding which fighters we are going to buy at this 2021-2024 period, but the amount of foreign loan that has been approved is just 1.1 billion USD. We are going to buy the planes using foreign loan

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## Darius77

Avicenna said:


> Nothing to do with BAF.
> 
> But Enjoy!


IRIAF is the only operator of the Persian Cats in the world with the highest air combat kills.


*Iranian Air Ace Jalil Zandi – 11 Aerial Victories. Highest-Scoring Pilot ever on F-14 Tomcat*









Avicenna said:


> Nothing to do with BAF.
> 
> But Enjoy!


Brig. General Jalil Zandi was a fighter pilot in the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force who served during all of the Iran–Iraq War. His combat record qualifies him as one of the most successful pilot of that conflict in air-to-air combat, as well as one of the best Iranian Aces ever. It also made him the highest-scoring pilot in the history of the F-14 Tomcat. 

*Eight Years of Action – Many Times Single Handed*


For the next eight years Jalil Zandi was in constant combat against the MiGs and Mirages of the Iraqi Air Force. He was flying the ever-shrinking operational force of F-14 Tomcat fighters, as the United States refused to ship replacement parts, missiles, or weapons for the Tomcat. By 1986 the operational strength of the Iranian Tomcat fighter wing had dropped from 80 to 25. Jalil often had to engage much larger swarms of enemy fighters that vastly outnumbered him. He was tasked primarily with defending Iranian oil fields. He sometimes had to engage nearly the entire Iraqi squadron, but he brought down many enemy MiGs without mercy.

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## Michael Corleone

Darius77 said:


> IRIAF is the only operator of the Persian Cats in the world with the highest air combat kills.
> 
> 
> *Iranian Air Ace Jalil Zandi – 11 Aerial Victories. Highest-Scoring Pilot ever on F-14 Tomcat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brig. General Jalil Zandi was a fighter pilot in the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force who served during all of the Iran–Iraq War. His combat record qualifies him as one of the most successful pilot of that conflict in air-to-air combat, as well as one of the best Iranian Aces ever. It also made him the highest-scoring pilot in the history of the F-14 Tomcat.
> 
> *Eight Years of Action – Many Times Single Handed*
> 
> 
> For the next eight years Jalil Zandi was in constant combat against the MiGs and Mirages of the Iraqi Air Force. He was flying the ever-shrinking operational force of F-14 Tomcat fighters, as the United States refused to ship replacement parts, missiles, or weapons for the Tomcat. By 1986 the operational strength of the Iranian Tomcat fighter wing had dropped from 80 to 25. Jalil often had to engage much larger swarms of enemy fighters that vastly outnumbered him. He was tasked primarily with defending Iranian oil fields. He sometimes had to engage nearly the entire Iraqi squadron, but he brought down many enemy MiGs without mercy.


Man how are you guys keeping them operation now. Mental

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453572233302061064

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## Avicenna

Darius77 said:


> IRIAF is the only operator of the Persian Cats in the world with the highest air combat kills.
> 
> 
> *Iranian Air Ace Jalil Zandi – 11 Aerial Victories. Highest-Scoring Pilot ever on F-14 Tomcat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brig. General Jalil Zandi was a fighter pilot in the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force who served during all of the Iran–Iraq War. His combat record qualifies him as one of the most successful pilot of that conflict in air-to-air combat, as well as one of the best Iranian Aces ever. It also made him the highest-scoring pilot in the history of the F-14 Tomcat.
> 
> *Eight Years of Action – Many Times Single Handed*
> 
> 
> For the next eight years Jalil Zandi was in constant combat against the MiGs and Mirages of the Iraqi Air Force. He was flying the ever-shrinking operational force of F-14 Tomcat fighters, as the United States refused to ship replacement parts, missiles, or weapons for the Tomcat. By 1986 the operational strength of the Iranian Tomcat fighter wing had dropped from 80 to 25. Jalil often had to engage much larger swarms of enemy fighters that vastly outnumbered him. He was tasked primarily with defending Iranian oil fields. He sometimes had to engage nearly the entire Iraqi squadron, but he brought down many enemy MiGs without mercy.



Yes, very impressive.

Also, its extremely impressive how Iran has managed to keep her fleet flying.

IMO, this type of capability is evidence of why Israel is obsessed with Iran.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Yes, very impressive.
> 
> Also, its extremely impressive how Iran has managed to keep her fleet flying.
> 
> IMO, this type of capability is evidence of why Israel is obsessed with Iran.




This will offend Arabs but Persians are far more competent than they are.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> This will offend Arabs but Persians are far more competent than they are.


What’s there to offend. It’s true.
Ok the PM is also meeting with dassault and airbus 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## F-6 enthusiast

official , i guess
*বাংলাদেশের কাছে যেসব অস্ত্র বিক্রি করতে চায় যুক্তরাজ্য*


বাংলা ট্রিবিউন রিপোর্ট
২৭ অক্টোবর ২০২১, ১৮:০৯





ডিক্যাব টকে যুক্তরাজ্যের রাষ্ট্রদূত রবার্ট ডিকসন

*বাংলাদেশের সঙ্গে দৃঢ় প্রতিরক্ষা সহযোগিতা রয়েছে যুক্তরাজ্যের এবং ওই দেশ থেকে নিরাপত্তা সামগ্রী ক্রয় করা হলে বন্ধন আরও দীর্ঘ ও দৃঢ় হবে। ইউরোপের দেশটি ইউরো ফাইটার, যুদ্ধজাহাজ, সি-১৩০ পরিবহন উড়োজাহাজসহ অন্যান্য সামগ্রী বাংলাদেশের কাছে বিক্রি করতে আগ্রহী।*
বুধবার (২৭ অক্টোবর) রাজধানীর প্রেস ক্লাবে ডিপ্লোমেটিক করেসপন্ডেন্ট অ্যাসোসিয়েশন, বাংলাদেশ আয়োজিত ডিক্যাব টকে যুক্তরাজ্যের রাষ্ট্রদূত রবার্ট ডিকসন একথা বলেন।

রাষ্ট্রদূত বলেন, প্রতিরক্ষা সামগ্রী সংগ্রহের ক্ষেত্রে দুই দেশের মধ্যে দৃঢ় সহযোগিতা আছে। আমি এখানে থাকাকালীন আমরা পাঁচটি সি-১৩০ পরিবহন উড়োজাহাজ বাংলাদেশ এয়ারফোর্সকে সরবরাহ করেছি। এটি একটি সফল লেনদেন।

যুক্তরাজ্যের রয়্যাল নেভির সার্ভে জাহাজ এখন বিএনএস অনুসন্ধান হিসেবে বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীতে অন্তর্ভুক্ত হয়েছে জানিয়ে রাষ্ট্রদূত বলেন, এটি বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর একটি প্রথা যুক্তরাজ্য থেকে যুদ্ধজাহাজ ক্রয় করা। এটি চলমান থাকুক এ বিষয়ে আমরা অত্যন্ত আগ্রহী।
আমাদের সমুদ্র সক্ষমতা অনেক বেশি এবং আমরা চাই বাংলাদেশ আমাদের কাছ থেকে নিরাপত্তা সামগ্রী ক্রয় করুক। কারণ, আমরা ভালো জিনিস বানাই এবং দামেও সুলভ বলে তিনি জানান।
তিনি বলেন, যে দেশ এগিয়ে যাচ্ছে ওই দেশ প্রতিরক্ষায় আরও বিনিয়োগ করতে পারে। আমরা (দুই দেশ) কীভাবে একসঙ্গে কাজ করতে পারি সেই বিষয়ে আলোচনা করছি।
যুক্তরাজ্য ইউরো ফাইটার কনসোর্টিয়ামের সদস্য এবং জেট বিষয়ে আলোচনার একটি আগ্রহপূর্ণ সুযোগ তৈরি হয়েছে জানিয়ে তিনি বলেন, টাইফুন বিমান বাংলাদেশের জন্য অত্যন্ত উপযোগী কিন্তু এর দাম বেশি। তবে এটি বাংলাদেশের জন্য ভালো হবে যদি তারা এটি কিনতে চায়।
ন্যাভাল সামগ্রী ক্রয়ের অনেক সুযোগ রয়েছে জানিয়ে তিনি বলেন, এ ধরনের লেনদেনে বন্ধন আরও দীর্ঘ ও দৃঢ় হয়।

বাংলাদেশের কাছে যেসব অস্ত্র বিক্রি করতে চায় যুক্তরাজ্য (banglatribune.com)


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## F-6 enthusiast

Translation 


*the uk has strong defence cooperation with bangladesh and the purchase of security materials from that country will make the bond longer and stronger. the european country is keen to sell euro fighters, warships, c-130 transport aircraft and other items to bangladesh.*

*this was stated by uk ambassador robert jackson* at a dcab tok organized by the diplomatic correspondent's association, bangladesh at the press club in the capital on wednesday (october 27).


the ambassador said there is strong cooperation between the two countries in procuring defence materials. while i was here, we delivered five c-130 transport aircraft to bangladesh air force. this is a successful transaction.


stating that the uk royal navy's survey ship has now been inducted into the bangladesh navy as a bns search, the ambassador said it is a practice of the bangladesh navy to purchase warships from the uk. we are very interested in the ongoing process.

our sea capacity is very high and we want bangladesh to buy security materials from us. because we make good things and are also available at prices, he added.

he said that a country that is moving forward can invest more in defence. we are discussing how (the two countries) can work together.

stating that the uk is a member of the euro fighter consortium and has created an interesting opportunity to discuss jet issues, he said typhoon aircraft are very useful for bangladesh but cost more. but it would be good for bangladesh if they wanted to buy it.

stating that there are many opportunities to buy naval goods, he said the bond in such transactions becomes longer and stronger.


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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> This will offend Arabs but Persians are far more competent than they are.



That is certainly the Persian narrative about themselves compared to the Gulf Arabs. Per my friends who are originally from cities like Esfahan, Shiraz and Teheran.

But Gulf Arabs and Persians are both blessed with oil reserves, where as Persians are constricted by sanctions.

Even after sanctions, Iran is a well-organized, better educated and more civilized country than some Arab countries. If Bangladesh had one-tenth of the population, and we had oil, it would be like Persia.

You can give 'em sanctions, but you can't keep 'em down. They will rise by using their own talent.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Ok the PM is also meeting with dassault and airbus 🤷🏻‍♂️


Its over
maybe we getting RAPHALES. at least DEFSUKA will be proven wrong so that's something i look forward to. 


*প্রধানমন্ত্রীর ফ্রান্স সফর হবে বহুমাত্রিক*


শেখ শাহরিয়ার জামান
০১ নভেম্বর ২০২১, ০০:০১




.

গুরুত্বপূর্ণ ও বহুমাত্রিক ফ্রান্স সফরে যাচ্ছেন প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা। ফ্রান্সের প্রেসিডেন্ট ইমানুয়েল ম্যাক্রোঁর আমন্ত্রণে ৯ থেকে ১৩ নভেম্বর প্যারিস সফর করবেন তিনি। দুই দেশের অংশীদারিত্বের সম্পর্ককে কৌশলগত (স্ট্র্যাটেজিক) স্তরে নিয়ে যাওয়ার যাত্রা শুরু হতে পারে এই সফরে।
ঢাকা যেমন প্যারিসের মতো বড় একটি শক্তিকে উন্নয়ন অভিযাত্রায় পাশে চায়, তেমনি ফ্রান্সও ক্রমবর্ধমান বাংলাদেশে বাণিজ্য, বিনিয়োগ ও নিরাপত্তা সরঞ্জাম বিক্রি করতে আগ্রহী। বেশ কয়েকটি সমঝোতা স্মারকের পাশাপাশি নিরাপত্তা খাতে একটি লেটার অফ ইনটেন্ট স্বাক্ষর হতে পারে বলে ধারণা করা যাচ্ছে।

এই সফরে ফ্রান্সের প্রেসিডেন্ট ম্যাক্রোঁ ও প্রধানমন্ত্রী জাঁ ক্যাস্টেক্সের সঙ্গে দ্বিপক্ষীয় বৈঠকের পাশাপাশি বৃহৎ ব্যবসায়িক অ্যাসোসিয়েশন ও গ্রুপের সঙ্গেও বৈঠকের কথা আছে প্রধানমন্ত্রীর। একইসঙ্গে ইউনেস্কোর ৭৫তম প্রতিষ্ঠাবার্ষিকী ও প্রথম ‘ইউনেস্কো-বাংলাদেশ বঙ্গবন্ধু পুরস্কার’ নিজ হাতে বিজয়ীদের হাতে তুলে দিতে পারেন তিনি। এ ছাড়া এ সময় তিনবার গার্ড অফ অনারও দেওয়া হবে শেখ হাসিনাকে।

এর আগে ২০১৭ সালের ডিসেম্বরে এলিসি প্রাসাদে ইমানুয়েল ম্যাক্রোঁর সঙ্গে শেখ হাসিনার দ্বিপক্ষীয় বৈঠক হয়েছিল।

*বাংলাদেশ কী চায়*
উন্নয়নশীল দেশ হিসেবে বাংলাদেশ তার বড় রফতানি বাজার ফ্রান্সের সঙ্গে বাণিজ্য অব্যাহত রাখতে চায়। একইসঙ্গে বিনিয়োগ, *সুলভমূল্যে ফরাসি পণ্য আমদানি ও ফোর্সেস গোল ২০৩০ বাস্তবায়নের জন্য নিরাপত্তা সরঞ্জাম সংগ্রহের উৎস বহুমুখী করতে চায়।*
এ বিষয়ে পররাষ্ট্র সচিব মাসুদ বিন মোমেন বলেন, ‘আমাদের অন্যতম বৃহৎ বাণিজ্যিক অংশীদার ও উন্নয়ন সহযোগী ফ্রান্স।’

*ফ্রান্স কী চায়*
বাংলাদেশে অর্থনৈতিক সুযোগ তৈরি হচ্ছে। সেটারই সুবিধা নিতে চায় ফ্রান্স। আবার সামরিক পণ্য বিক্রয়েও আগ্রহ রয়েছে ফ্রান্সের। *রাফাল যুদ্ধবিমান,* প্রশিক্ষণ উড়োজাহাজ, রাডার, সিমুলেটর, ই-ভিসা, নিউক্লিয়ার পাওয়ার প্লান্টসহ অন্যান্য পণ্য বিক্রয়েই দেশটির আগ্রহ বেশি। বাংলাদেশে ফ্রান্সের দূতাবাসের ওয়েবসাইট অনুযায়ী ২০২০ সালে প্রথমবার ফ্রান্সের প্রতিরক্ষামন্ত্রী ফ্লোরেন্স পারলে ও বিমানবাহিনী বাহিনী প্রধান ফিলিপে লাভিগনে ঢাকা সফর করেন।
মাসুদ বিন মোমেন বলেন, ন্যাটোর গুরুত্বপূর্ণ সদস্য ফ্রান্স এবং দেশটি সমরাস্ত্র তৈরিতে অভিজ্ঞ। বাংলাদেশের প্রতিরক্ষা সক্ষমতা আছে এবং ফোর্সেস গোল ২০৩০’তে আগ্রহ আছে ফ্রান্সের।

*এয়ারবাস, থ্যালেসের সঙ্গে বৈঠক*
প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার সঙ্গে দেখা করতে চেয়েছেন ইউরোপের সবচেয়ে বড় উড়োজাহাজ প্রস্তুতকারী সংস্থা এয়ারবাসের প্রধান। স্যাটেলাইট, রাডারসহ বিভিন্ন উচ্চপ্রযুক্তির পণ্য বিক্রয়কারী প্রতিষ্ঠান থ্যালেসের প্রধানও দেখা করতে চেয়েছেন।
যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের বোয়িংয়ের কাছ থেকে কয়েকটি উড়োজাহাজ কেনার পরই অনেকগুলো কোম্পানি বাংলাদেশের কাছে উড়োজাহাজ বিক্রি করতে চায়। এয়ারবাস তাদের মধ্যে একটি।
অন্যদিকে থ্যালেস বাংলাদেশে সামরিক ও বেসামরিক রাডার বিক্রি করছে।

*কেন এই সফর গুরুত্বপূর্ণ*
সাবেক পররাষ্ট্র সচিব মো. শহীদুল হক বলেন, ফ্রান্সের সঙ্গে বাংলাদেশের যোগাযোগ মুক্তিযুদ্ধের সময় থেকেই।
প্রধানমন্ত্রীর সঙ্গে ফ্রান্সের সর্বোচ্চ নেতৃত্বের বেশ কয়েকবার ‍দ্বিপক্ষীয় ও বিভিন্ন ফোরামে আলোচনা হয়েছে জানিয়ে তিনি বলেন, বাংলাদেশের ক্রমবর্ধমান উন্নতি ফ্রান্সের মনোযোগ আকর্ষণ করেছে।
তিনি বলেন, সফরটি বহুমাত্রিক এবং কৌশলগত সম্পর্ক প্রতিষ্ঠায় বড় অগ্রগতি হিসেবে বিবেচনা করা যায়।
ইন্দো-প্যাসিফিকে নিজেদের উপস্থিতি আরও বড় আকারে দেখতে চায় ফ্রান্স এবং এ অঞ্চলের একটি দেশ হিসেবে বাংলাদেশকেই তারা পাশে চাইবে বলে তিনি জানান।
তিনি বলেন, এ মূহূর্তে ইন্ডিয়ান ওশেন রিম অ্যাসোসিয়েশনের চেয়ার বাংলাদেশ। যা আমাদের গুরুত্ব আরও বাড়িয়ে দিয়েছে।
ফ্রান্সের নিজস্ব ইন্দো-প্যাসিফিক স্ট্র্যাটেজি আছে। এ সফরের মাধ্যমে ওই বিষয়ে উভয়পক্ষ একে-অপরের মতামত জানার সুযোগ পাবে। এমনটাই মনে করছেন সাবেক পররাষ্ট্র সচিব।
তিনি আরও জানান, জলবায়ু পরিবর্তনের কারণে বাংলাদেশ অন্যতম ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত দেশ এবং ক্ষতি কাটিয়ে ওঠার জন্য নায্যতার প্রশ্নে সবসময় সমর্থন দিয়েছে ফ্রান্স। এ ছাড়া রোহিঙ্গা ইস্যুতেও জাতিসংঘ নিরাপত্তা পরিষদসহ বিভিন্ন ফোরামে ঢাকাকে সমর্থন দিয়ে আসছে প্যারিস।


F-6 enthusiast said:


> প্রশিক্ষণ উড়োজাহাজ


@Destranator old habits never die or something along those lines. idk care anymore

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## Avicenna

Enjoy!

#4

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> #4


You can never have "too many" of these bhotka planes. BAF should also acquire the C-130-J30's RAF is selling off.









UK Defence Command Paper: RAF to axe C-130 fleet early


The UK Royal Air Force (RAF) is to retire its fleet of Lockheed Martin C-130J/C-130J-30 Hercules transport aircraft earlier than planned, the Ministry of Defence (MoD)...



www.janes.com

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## BlackViking

ব্যবসা ও প্রতিরক্ষা সহযোগিতায় গুরুত্ব


প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা আগামীকাল মঙ্গলবার প্যারিসের এলিসি প্রাসাদে ফ্রান্সের প্রেসিডেন্ট এমানুয়েল মাখোঁর সঙ্গে আনুষ্ঠানিক বৈঠকে বসছেন। বৈঠকে ব্যবসা, বিনিয়োগ ও প্রতিরক্ষা সহযোগিতার মতো বিষয়গুলো গুরুত্ব পেতে পারে।




www.prothomalo.com




স*মরাস্ত্র বিক্রি ও প্রতিরক্ষায় মনোযোগ ফ্রান্সের*

সশস্ত্র বাহিনীকে আধুনিকায়নের লক্ষ্যে বাংলাদেশ ফোর্সেস গোল-২০৩০ কর্মসূচি নিয়েছে। এই পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে ফ্রান্স কয়েক বছর ধরে বাংলাদেশে সমরাস্ত্র, বিশেষ করে জঙ্গি বিমান দাসল্ট রাফালে বিক্রির জন্য চেষ্টা করে যাচ্ছে। ২০২০ সালের ফেব্রুয়ারিতে প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার রোম সফরের পরের মাসেই ঢাকা সফরে আসেন ফ্রান্সের প্রতিরক্ষামন্ত্রী ফ্লোরেন্স পার্লে। তিনি প্রধানমন্ত্রীর সঙ্গে দেখা করে রাফালে কিনতে বিশেষভাবে অনুরোধ জানান। অন্যদিকে ইতালিসহ চার দেশ তাদের যৌথ উৎপাদিত জঙ্গি বিমান ইউরো ফাইটার বাংলাদেশে বিক্রির চেষ্টা চালিয়ে যাচ্ছে। প্রধানমন্ত্রীর প্যারিস সফরের সময় প্রতিরক্ষা সহযোগিতার ক্ষেত্রে রাফালে বিক্রির বিষয়টি অগ্রাধিকার পাবে বলে কূটনৈতিক সূত্রগুলো আভাস দিয়েছে।

কূটনৈতিক সূত্রে জানা গেছে, দুই শীর্ষ নেতার আলোচনার পর সইয়ের তালিকায় থাকা সমঝোতা স্মারক ও সম্মতিপত্রের মধ্যে প্রতিরক্ষা সহযোগিতার বিষয়টিও রয়েছে। প্রতিরক্ষা সহযোগিতার যে সম্মতিপত্র সইয়ের প্রস্তুতি চলছে, তা সামগ্রিক সহযোগিতাবিষয়ক। অর্থাৎ এতে প্রশিক্ষণ, কারিগরি সহযোগিতা, প্রযুক্তি বিনিময়ের মতো বিষয়গুলো থাকছে। তবে ফ্রান্স শুধু জঙ্গি বিমান রাফালেই নয়, প্রশিক্ষণ বিমানও বাংলাদেশের কাছে বিক্রিতে আগ্রহী।

সুইডেনভিত্তিক প্রতিরক্ষাবিষয়ক গবেষণা প্রতিষ্ঠান স্টকহোম ইন্টারন্যাশনাল পিস রিসার্চ ইনস্টিটিউটের (সিপরি) ২০২১ সালের মার্চ মাসের পরিসংখ্যান অনুযায়ী, বিশ্বের তৃতীয় বৃহত্তম অস্ত্র রপ্তানিকারক দেশ ফ্রান্স। তালিকায় প্রথম ও দ্বিতীয় দুটি দেশ যথাক্রমে যুক্তরাষ্ট্র ও রাশিয়া।


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## Destranator

Before anyone starts crying, offering and selling Rafales are two different things. I don't see any reason why BAF would choose Rafales over EFT.
Leonardo is an existing, proven supplier. We can buy stuff from them for both BAF and BN.
No point in bringing in Dassault into the picture. Besides, France is at odds with both UK and US. No benefit in siding with France at this point in time.

What people should be worried about is EFT's biggest competitor for the BAF MRCA purchase:
The NoFighter ThumbtwiddleJet.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Before anyone starts crying, offering and selling Rafales are two different things. I don't see any reason why BAF would choose Rafales over EFT.
> Leonardo is an existing, proven supplier. We can buy stuff from them for both BAF and BN.
> No point in bringing in Dassault into the picture. Besides, France is at odds with both UK and US. No benefit in siding with France at this point in time.
> 
> What people should be worried about is EFT's biggest competitor for the BAF MRCA purchase:
> The NoFighter ThumbtwiddleJet.


I don’t see how bd can afford either jets to fly reasonable hours


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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> I don’t see how bd can afford either jets to fly reasonable hours


I thought Victory Day acrobatics > national security? It is to BAF anyway.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> I thought Victory Day acrobatics > national security? It is to BAF anyway.


Lousy acrobatics at that with loose misaligned formations 😭

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## Destranator

Michael Corleone said:


> Lousy acrobatics at that with loose misaligned formations 😭


Add to that Faggot a$$ annoucers and BTV's filming using a toaster oven.

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## Michael Corleone

Destranator said:


> Add to that Faggot a$$ annoucers and BTV's filming using a toaster oven.


Digital developed bongopapa Bangladesh 2021

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Leonardo is an existing, proven supplier. We can buy stuff from them for both BAF and BN.
> No point in bringing in Dassault into the picture. Besides, France is at odds with both UK and US. No benefit in siding with France at this point in time.


to play devil's advocate:
The EFT costs more to procure and run than the raphale.Plus the french might be willing to supply SCALPE like they did to Egypt. it'll give us parity vs iaf raffle and superiority over burmese jf-17, su-30.
i personally want the EFT as it is a better Air-to-Air platform but oh well if the option is between thumbtwiddlejet and raphale , ill gladly take raphale.
Indonesia might buy some as well
Indonesia signs letter of intent to buy 36 Rafale fighters (aerotime.aero) @Indos 
I hope you all saved the DEFSECA posts about how raphale aint coming.



Michael Corleone said:


> jets to fly reasonable hours


''moddhom ayer desh '' should be able to handle 16 jets. Basically its the BAF saying ''put your money where your mouth is'' to the gov.

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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> to play devil's advocate:
> The EFT costs more to procure and run than the raphale.Plus the french might be willing to supply SCALPE like they did to Egypt. it'll give us parity vs iaf raffle and superiority over burmese jf-17, su-30.
> i personally want the EFT as it is a better Air-to-Air platform but oh well if the option is between thumbtwiddlejet and raphale , ill gladly take raphale.
> Indonesia might buy some as well
> Indonesia signs letter of intent to buy 36 Rafale fighters (aerotime.aero) @Indos
> I hope you all saved the DEFSECA posts about how raphale aint coming.



The acquisition program hasnt been approved by both Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance. If we dont pay Down Payment until Desember 2021, then the contract will be cancelled.

You can understand the problem by watching this video, use English translation.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Indos said:


> The acquisition program hasnt been approved by both Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance. If we dont pay Down Payment until Desember 2021, then the contract will be cancelled.
> 
> You can understand the problem by watching this video, use English translation.


its not a concrete deal then. Understood.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Rafale or twin engine fighters makes sense for Indonesia given its vast territory and need for naval strike capability

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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> its not a concrete deal then. Understood.



1.1 billion USD has been approved. I believe Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance force Prabowo Subianto to buy F 16 instead with that money, enough to buy 12-14 F 16 V while it is intended to fill previous F 5 squadron that has 12 planes.

The squadron is in Iswahyudi base where there are already F 16 C/D and F 16 MLU. It means the infrastructure and trained technicians are already ready. Weapons are ready to use (AMRAMM/Sidewinder/Maverick), while separate acquisition to buy more AMRAMM and Sidewinder have already been approved by Minister of Planning ( I believe MoF also has approved as well)








F-6 enthusiast said:


> Rafale or twin engine fighters makes sense for Indonesia given its vast territory and need for naval strike capability



F 16 V has more fuel tank capacity

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## Michael Corleone

Indos said:


> The acquisition program hasnt been approved by both Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance. If we dont pay Down Payment until Desember 2021, then the contract will be cancelled.
> 
> You can understand the problem by watching this video, use English translation.


So you guys buying or nah?


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## Indos

Michael Corleone said:


> So you guys buying or nah?



I dont think we are going to buy Rafale, I think Indonesia will buy F 16 V. Those in our Planning Ministry and MoF wants cost effective fighters. Why do we need to add more fighter type, making the operation more complicated. Better simplify it and get cost effective fighters like F 16 V. 

So if we have another 12 planes, so we will have 45 F 16, 16 Sukhoi 30/27, 32 Hawk 200/100, and 20 TA 50 Golden Eagle ( we just order another 6 planes recently )

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## Destranator

Indos said:


> 1.1 billion USD has been approved. I believe *Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance force Prabowo Subianto to buy F 16 *instead with that money, enough to buy 12-14 F 16 V while it is intended to fill previous F 5 squadron that has 12 planes.




Do you guys offer ToT for Ministry of Planning and Ministry of Finance? We need to replace ours urgently. I am happy to sign paperwork right now.

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> Do you guys offer ToT for Ministry of Planning and Ministry of Finance? We need to replace ours urgently. I am happy to sign paperwork right now.



Those 2 persons are vital in any program. Prabowo cannot just sign contract and hope he will be financed automatically. 

Our people in Finance Ministry is really powerful and so far this guys are very economic centric, even it is hard to get KF 21 financing from them. I do hope in Friday good news about renegotiation inshaAllah will happen on KF 21 /IFX program.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> to play devil's advocate:
> The EFT costs more to procure and run than the raphale.Plus the french might be willing to supply SCALPE like they did to Egypt. it'll give us parity vs iaf raffle and superiority over burmese jf-17, su-30.
> i personally want the EFT as it is a better Air-to-Air platform but oh well if the option is between thumbtwiddlejet and raphale , ill gladly take raphale.
> Indonesia might buy some as well
> Indonesia signs letter of intent to buy 36 Rafale fighters (aerotime.aero) @Indos
> I hope you all saved the DEFSECA posts about how raphale aint coming.
> 
> 
> ''moddhom ayer desh '' should be able to handle 16 jets. Basically its the BAF saying ''put your money where your mouth is'' to the gov.


My problem with Rafale is the commonality of platform with IAF which would inevitably lead to more hob-knob with BAF which I despise. Besides, in the event of conflict, India will arm twist Dassault into halting supplies to BAF. They may not have the same degree of success with Leonardo.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> My problem with Rafale is the commonality of platform with IAF which would inevitably lead to more hob-knob with BAF which I despise. Besides, in the event of conflict, India will arm twist Dassault into halting supplies to BAF. They may not have the same degree of success with Leonardo.


there's a set of problems:
1. they'll know the strenghts and weaknesses of the raffle.

2. Another thing is that raffel isn't NATO integrated to the level that the EFT is. meaning you cant use AMRAAMs , mavericks , HARM.
la france can price gouge their items. They are shady businessmen
Bear in mind that we are signing the deal with Americans for future acquisitions and that F-7 will someday be replaced by F-16s.

I was always in favour of EFT, still am. We'll have to see what happens tomorrow. 



Destranator said:


> They may not have the same degree of success with Leonardo



they got blacklisted by the indian mod for some reason ?


F-6 enthusiast said:


> they got blacklisted by the indian mod for some reason ?


Spoke too soon. They lifted the ban a few hours ago

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456958643706810375

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> event of conflict,


this is whats gonna happen in the event of a conflict. can anyone see any raffle/eft in this picture? 









Newly Released Picture Shows PLA Also Helped Indian Soldiers to Relive Their School Days Memories in Galwan Valley


Chalo sub murgha bano BC Indeed very kind and gentle of PLA



defence.pk

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## Michael Corleone

F-6 enthusiast said:


> this is whats gonna happen in the event of a conflict. can anyone see any raffle/eft in this picture?
> View attachment 791394
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newly Released Picture Shows PLA Also Helped Indian Soldiers to Relive Their School Days Memories in Galwan Valley
> 
> 
> Chalo sub murgha bano BC Indeed very kind and gentle of PLA
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


The Indians claimed these aren’t Indians but Chinese 😂 and the Chinese looking victors are Gorkas

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> The Indians claimed these aren’t Indians but Chinese 😂 and the Chinese looking victors are Gorkas


lol they claim its actors from BD  . its been almost 1.5 years since this clash, why didn't they make any noise when ''BD actors who were hired by China'' were handed back to them ? why now ?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Michael Corleone said:


> Gorkas




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409114393426554880

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> My problem with Rafale is the commonality of platform with IAF which would inevitably lead to more hob-knob with BAF which I despise. Besides, in the event of conflict, India will arm twist Dassault into halting supplies to BAF. They may not have the same degree of success with Leonardo.



Interesting is that Leonardo was moved off the Indian blacklist recently as @F-6 enthusiast Bhai reported. Indians may be buying stuff from AgustaWestland soon.

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## Bilal9

This blog confirmed that Bangladesh did get delivery of Wing Loong II. I don't know if anyone can confirm.









IDEX-2021: China Displays Its High-Tech Military Hardware At Abu Dhabi Expo: Watch


China has emerged as a major exhibitor at the ongoing IDEX-2021, the largest defense expo in the Middle East. The country has showcased aerial systems, armored vehicles, anti-tank missiles among a range of weapons at the event being held in Abu Dhabi. Why India Opted For Israeli Tank-Buster...




eurasiantimes.com

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## Bilal9

Living Eagle (I'd say living legend) Group Captain Saiful Azam passed away in 14th of June last year. This is one of his last pictures. May Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala grant him the choicest place in Jannat, which he so richly deserved.









Saiful Azam - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Bilal9

Fully armed BAF Mi-171Sh

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## Avicenna

Love the Rafale.

Just don't like the fact both India and Bangladesh would potentially be flying the same type.

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## Bilal9

L-39 video. This was rather well done I think.

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> L-39 video. This was rather well done I think.



Lovely video!

Watching this video is bittersweet.

There is so much potential for BAF.

If only some muppets would get their acts together!

Please just get the Eurofighter and then plan on a purchase of a single seat Western type for numbers. (Buying Rafale, as great as a platform it is, is a major mistake)

And push the training. 

Train with the West.

And start to indigenize in a meaningful way.

Don't let politics get in the way of capability.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Lovely video!
> 
> Watching this video is bittersweet.
> 
> There is so much potential for BAF.
> 
> If only some muppets would get their acts together!
> 
> Please just get the Eurofighter and then plan on a purchase of a single seat Western type for numbers. (Buying Rafale, as great as a platform it is, is a major mistake)
> 
> And push the training.
> 
> Train with the West.
> 
> And start to indigenize in a meaningful way.
> 
> Don't let politics get in the way of capability.



Wise words spoken - bhai....

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## Destranator

Did someone hack Defseca on my behalf? 

P.S. - I know this is Ashiq's writing. He has an epiphany regarding BAF once a year when he spits out its harsh reality. The below is for 2021.






__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/449366733289502

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Did someone hack Defseca on my behalf?
> 
> P.S. - I know this is Ashiq's writing. He has an epiphany regarding BAF once a year when he spits out its harsh reality. The below is for 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/449366733289502



It's a good post nonetheless.

Hopefully, someone with power reads it and does something about it.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Did someone hack Defseca on my behalf?
> 
> P.S. - I know this is Ashiq's writing. He has an epiphany regarding BAF once a year when he spits out its harsh reality. The below is for 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/449366733289502


this is unnatural of him, there's no bootlicking in this post or arguments about how _BAF operates the most advanced trainers_.
remember his posts about how rafale was never gonna make it to BAF ? 

An undelivered promise | Dhaka Tribune 
apparently F-18E/F and gripen ng were not considered to bid for the MRCA programme. 


Avicenna said:


> Hopefully, someone with power reads it and does something about it.


unfortunately they wont. And there's no way to hold them accountable for ignoring national security.


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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> this is unnatural of him, there's no bootlicking in this post or arguments about how _BAF operates the most advanced trainers_.
> remember his posts about how rafale was never gonna make it to BAF ?


This is why I identified the above post as his annual epiphany for 2021. Amra's views fluctuate based on the following key factors:

What may sound edgy at that given point it time (i.e., follow the direction of wind)
Whom he is beefing with (Defres, etc.) at that point in time (he must state the opposite)
What mood he is in



F-6 enthusiast said:


> An undelivered promise | Dhaka Tribune
> apparently F-18E/F and gripen ng were not considered to bid for the MRCA programme.



This is an article written by el haguni aka Raihan Al Beruni aka Ryan Smith aka Global Defence Corp aka @araberuni aka @polanski aka @Bradman and heavily edited by Dhaka Tribune to eliminate grammatical errors.

While I agree with some of his opinions, take any claims he makes with a grain of salt.

@ghost250


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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> This is why I identified the above post as his annual epiphany for 2021. Amra's views fluctuate based on the following key factors:
> 
> What may sound edgy at that given point it time (i.e., follow the direction of wind)
> Whom he is beefing with (Defres, etc.) at that point in time (he must state the opposite)
> What mood he is in
> 
> 
> This is an article written by el haguni aka Raihan Al Beruni aka Ryan Smith aka Global Defence Corp aka @araberuni aka @polanski aka @Bradman and heavily edited by Dhaka Tribune to eliminate grammatical errors.
> 
> While I agree with some of his opinions, take any claims he makes with a grain of salt.
> 
> @ghost250



I don't know how these two became (armchair) military strategists.

Do they have an actual background in the air-force or any military services?

On a more practical note, they should do away with the paywall (either of these two sites) - it seems like they don't have a whole bunch of people lining up to get the inside scoop on Bangladesh military purchases.

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## Indos

Taken in latest Dubai Airshow 2021






Needs to stress here 2 important characteristics : Affordable Mid-Class Fighter Aircraft and design for future growth.

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## Indos

KF 21 expected development cost is even now slashed further as Indonesia as 20 % partner only need to contribute financially at 1.35 billion USD, previous cost for Indonesia is 1.8 billion USD. Beside total reduction of expected development cost, It also means KF21/IFX program managers seems quite confident to offer plane at 65-75 million USD per plane, much affordable than Rafale and Eurofighter. Just compare Rafale and Eurofighter development cost with expected KF21/IFX program development cost.

Recent renegotiation also show increase of Indonesia components, particularly for fuselage as 50 % of wings and tails for all KF21 will be supplied by Indonesia as sole supplier of fuselage component of the plane outside Korea. This could be also make the total cost is decreasing, but we need to see whether the program would be a success and can complete its development in 2026 inshaAllah.

With stealth wingman drone capability, it can give more damage if the mission is bombing. Until now, it is not clear whether the wingman capability can turn to have AA missile as well.

This is why the BD strategy could be focusing more on other thing (Navy, Army, SAM system, trainer aircraft, LCA etc) until 2026 before making KF 21 as their bulk MRCA fighters. It is cost effective as Myanmar is likely to get China Stealth MRCA and India is now getting serious in their AMCA program and will roll out the plane in 2026 based on their recent plan. Both India and Myanmar will not likely to create any future conflict on BD for the next 20 years, particularly by seeing USA and European nations will be still quite strong until 2035 and will impose sanction to any aggressor and oil, gas, coal are still quite strategic commodities where Islamic nations are still the main suppliers of those commodities in which Indian economy still depend alot on it.

The year 2040 forward is the period where I see quite challenging for BD and India will have more influence due to its economic and military power, not mentioning if they can reduce the significant of fossil fuel contribution on their economy thus will be in much stronger position if Muslim nations impose embargo on India if they attack BD ( something that I dont see within India interest, but I want to think like many BD members here seeing India as possible threat) . And China raise and its close relationship with Myanmar, and possible Myanmar rapid development in 2030-2040 if they can get rid the military ruling where I expect could happen in 2027-2030

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## Avicenna

DEFSECA is famous.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462395968377131017
Congrats!

You guys got a rise out of some people!

Carry on!

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## Destranator

Indos said:


> KF 21 expected development cost is even now slashed further as Indonesia as 20 % partner only need to contribute financially at 1.35 billion USD, previous cost for Indonesia is 1.8 billion USD. Beside total reduction of expected development cost, It also means KF21/IFX program managers seems quite confident to offer plane at 65-75 million USD per plane, much affordable than Rafale and Eurofighter. Just compare Rafale and Eurofighter development cost with expected KF21/IFX program development cost.
> 
> Recent renegotiation also show increase of Indonesia components, particularly for fuselage as 50 % of wings and tails for all KF21 will be supplied by Indonesia as sole supplier of fuselage component of the plane outside Korea. This could be also make the total cost is decreasing, but we need to see whether the program would be a success and can complete its development in 2026 inshaAllah.
> 
> With stealth wingman drone capability, it can give more damage if the mission is bombing. Until now, it is not clear whether the wingman capability can turn to have AA missile as well.
> 
> This is why the BD strategy could be focusing more on other thing (Navy, Army, SAM system, trainer aircraft, LCA etc) until 2026 before making KF 21 as their bulk MRCA fighters. It is cost effective as Myanmar is likely to get China Stealth MRCA and India is now getting serious in their AMCA program and will roll out the plane in 2026 based on their recent plan. Both India and Myanmar will not likely to create any future conflict on BD for the next 20 years, particularly by seeing USA and European nations will be still quite strong until 2035 and will impose sanction to any aggressor and oil, gas, coal are still quite strategic commodities where Islamic nations are still the main suppliers of those commodities in which Indian economy still depend alot on it.
> 
> The year 2040 forward is the period where I see quite challenging for BD and India will have more influence due to its economic and military power, not mentioning if they can reduce the significant of fossil fuel contribution on their economy thus will be in much stronger position if Muslim nations impose embargo on India if they attack BD ( something that I dont see within India interest, but I want to think like many BD members here seeing India as possible threat) . And China raise and its close relationship with Myanmar, and possible Myanmar rapid development in 2030-2040 if they can get rid the military ruling where I expect could happen in 2027-2030




BAF can easily invest in KF-21 and T-50 in exchange for ToT but lacks vision.

KF-21 investment would nicely set BAF up for eventual replacement of all F-7s as well as adoption of future tech as KF-21 is expected to keep evolving over the coming decades.
T-50's would allow easier transition to Western fighters and KF-21.
The Yak-130's can be sold off to other countries.

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Avicenna said:


> DEFSECA is famous.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462395968377131017
> Congrats!
> 
> You guys got a rise out of some people!
> 
> Carry on!


So indians have already started boiling🤣🤣

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## Basel

F-6 enthusiast said:


> American jets are cheaper than Russian in the long run (except for f-35) , and cheaper than european alternatives to procure because of economies of scale. Bd can afford F-16V.
> 
> Russian/Eastern fighters require heavy maintenance (like indian su-30mki that has a vey low availability rate) and have to sit in the hanger most of the time. They are less fuel efficient (this is by design to have high TWR). Western engines have have longer lives and require less overhauls throughout their service life.



Mix of used (upgraded to V standard) and new F-16s will be good option for BAF to have very capable force.

For top fighter EFT or Rafale r good and for advance work horse fighter F-16 or JAS-39 NG combo will be very potent yo have.



Bilal9 said:


> Interesting is that Leonardo was moved off the Indian blacklist recently as @F-6 enthusiast Bhai reported. Indians may be buying stuff from AgustaWestland soon.



They did it to stop them supplying equipment to Pakistan as they have signed many contracts and many are in pipeline.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> This is an article written by el haguni aka Raihan Al Beruni aka Ryan Smith aka Global Defence Corp aka @araberuni aka @polanski aka @Bradman and heavily edited by Dhaka Tribune to eliminate grammatical errors.


okay i didn't realise it was him tbh.


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> DEFSECA is famous.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462395968377131017
> Congrats!
> 
> You guys got a rise out of some people!
> 
> Carry on!



@Avicenna bhai it always amazes me that these Dui takar "intellectuals" in Kolkata can steer "Bangladesh-hater" pubic opinion in India. As everyone already knows these jokers are on BJP/VHP payroll.

Bangladesh is a sovereign state, not a part of India. We can and will decide what we want as an MRC platform. We don't have to ask the likes of Tathagata Roy for their opinion. And to suggest that we are buying this to "attack India" is the height of lunacy. Even for a guy like Tathagata Roy.

Next watch me opine on what India should induct for their next "stealth" aircraft - and whether they plan to "attack" Bangladesh with it!

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## Avicenna

Second meeting between USAF chief and BAF counterpart this year.

Interesting right?

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## BlackViking

Destranator said:


> Did someone hack Defseca on my behalf?
> 
> P.S. - I know this is Ashiq's writing. He has an epiphany regarding BAF once a year when he spits out its harsh reality. The below is for 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/449366733289502


He is just pissed because baf is in rafale more than eft. Baf "ignored his advice" and might go for rafale. So now he is bashing baf.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Second meeting between USAF chief and BAF counterpart this year.
> 
> Interesting right?
> 
> View attachment 796490


The fact that both of them are 4 star generals is the biggest joke of the century. 1 star is perfect for the BAF chief given the fleet size.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> The fact that both of them are 4 star generals is the biggest joke of the century. 1 star is perfect for the BAF chief given the fleet size.



Is the salary hugely different between a 1 star and 4 star rank person. I am a civilian, I have no idea.

Rank may be due to number of staff under command - rather than fleet size?



Avicenna said:


> Second meeting between USAF chief and BAF counterpart this year.
> 
> Interesting right?
> 
> View attachment 796490



Bussi. Wink, wink, nudge...

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## F-6 enthusiast

raphale had ~50% availability compared to RAF typhoons 65%
whereas f-16 managed to get 83% availability.




the ''omnirole'' bs is just a marketing term that dassault brags about was achieved by the F-18,F-16 decades ago. Been there done that.

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## Buddhistforlife

Indos said:


> KF 21 expected development cost is even now slashed further as Indonesia as 20 % partner only need to contribute financially at 1.35 billion USD, previous cost for Indonesia is 1.8 billion USD. Beside total reduction of expected development cost, It also means KF21/IFX program managers seems quite confident to offer plane at 65-75 million USD per plane, much affordable than Rafale and Eurofighter. Just compare Rafale and Eurofighter development cost with expected KF21/IFX program development cost.
> 
> Recent renegotiation also show increase of Indonesia components, particularly for fuselage as 50 % of wings and tails for all KF21 will be supplied by Indonesia as sole supplier of fuselage component of the plane outside Korea. This could be also make the total cost is decreasing, but we need to see whether the program would be a success and can complete its development in 2026 inshaAllah.
> 
> With stealth wingman drone capability, it can give more damage if the mission is bombing. Until now, it is not clear whether the wingman capability can turn to have AA missile as well.
> 
> This is why the BD strategy could be focusing more on other thing (Navy, Army, SAM system, trainer aircraft, LCA etc) until 2026 before making KF 21 as their bulk MRCA fighters. It is cost effective as Myanmar is likely to get China Stealth MRCA and India is now getting serious in their AMCA program and will roll out the plane in 2026 based on their recent plan. Both India and Myanmar will not likely to create any future conflict on BD for the next 20 years, particularly by seeing USA and European nations will be still quite strong until 2035 and will impose sanction to any aggressor and oil, gas, coal are still quite strategic commodities where Islamic nations are still the main suppliers of those commodities in which Indian economy still depend alot on it.
> 
> The year 2040 forward is the period where I see quite challenging for BD and India will have more influence due to its economic and military power, not mentioning if they can reduce the significant of fossil fuel contribution on their economy thus will be in much stronger position if Muslim nations impose embargo on India if they attack BD ( something that I dont see within India interest, but I want to think like many BD members here seeing India as possible threat) . And China raise and its close relationship with Myanmar, and possible Myanmar rapid development in 2030-2040 if they can get rid the military ruling where I expect could happen in 2027-2030


Myanmar will not buy any Chinese stealth. They might get the new Su 75 checkmate. Its cheaper and its a Gen 5 jet.

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## Destranator

Buddhistforlife said:


> Myanmar will not buy any Chinese stealth. They might get the new Su 75 checkmate. Its cheaper and its a Gen 5 jet.


Su-30 chalaite pant khule jachche abar Su-75.

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## PoondolotoPandalum

I still maintain Bangladesh doesn't have an airforce. It has a gentleman's flying club instead. I can't think of the worst airforce relative to population and economy size.

No major procurements for what, 20 years? Yak-130s, a handful of C-130J, groms, aren't major procurements. Not least because they do not combat platforms, which doesn't add to our airpower, but we didn't buy that many of them in the first place. 

Honestly, I can't think of a single defense community that gets so excited by something so small as the Bangladeshi one. It's the only sort of place fanboys get super excited by the acquisition of MAN or IVECO general-purpose trucks. The same sort of trucks I see carrying large skips full of rubbish in my town. 

It's cringeworthy as ****.

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## mb444

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> I still maintain Bangladesh doesn't have an airforce. It has a gentleman's flying club instead. I can't think of the worst airforce relative to population and economy size.
> 
> No major procurements for what, 20 years? Yak-130s, a handful of C-130J, groms, aren't major procurements. Not least because they do not combat platforms, which doesn't add to our airpower, but we didn't buy that many of them in the first place.
> 
> Honestly, I can't think of a single defense community that gets so excited by something so small as the Bangladeshi one. It's the only sort of place fanboys get super excited by the acquisition of MAN or IVECO general-purpose trucks. The same sort of trucks I see carrying large skips full of rubbish in my town.
> 
> It's cringeworthy as ****.



We all feel as you do but cling to hope of a turn around. This is why people gets excited.....


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## Bilal9

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> I still maintain Bangladesh doesn't have an airforce. It has a gentleman's flying club instead. I can't think of the worst airforce relative to population and economy size.
> 
> No major procurements for what, 20 years? Yak-130s, a handful of C-130J, groms, aren't major procurements. Not least because they do not combat platforms, which doesn't add to our airpower, but we didn't buy that many of them in the first place.
> 
> Honestly, I can't think of a single defense community that gets so excited by something so small as the Bangladeshi one. It's the only sort of place fanboys get super excited by the acquisition of MAN or IVECO general-purpose trucks. The same sort of trucks I see carrying large skips full of rubbish in my town.
> 
> It's cringeworthy as ****.



Unless Indians approve, Bangladesh isn't getting anything more potent as new platform than Yak-130.

Indians direct Hasina and Hasina has BAF chief in her pocket/purse. That is reality.

You think we don't have budget to buy these fighter platform. We have ten times over if needed.


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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> Unless Indians approve, Bangladesh isn't getting anything more potent as new platform than Yak-130.
> 
> Indians direct Hasina and Hasina has BAF chief in her pocket/purse. That is reality.
> 
> You think we don't have budget to buy these fighter platform. We have ten times over if needed.


This would make sense if BA and BN were not growing, they are. BAF is BAF, perpetual thumbtwiddlers. They expect civilian bureaucrats and politicians to pick an MRCA and shove it down their throat. Civilians have better things to do.

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> Unless Indians approve, Bangladesh isn't getting anything more potent as new platform than Yak-130.
> 
> Indians direct Hasina and Hasina has BAF chief in her pocket/purse. That is reality.
> 
> You think we don't have budget to buy these fighter platform. We have ten times over if needed.




That does not really make sense as otherwise the Indians would have blocked the purchase of the Turkish TRG-300 MLRS.

These systems have a range of 120km could devastate lots of Indian military installations in neighbouring states like W Bengal and the NE.

12-16 fighters would be far less of a threat to them than 18 of these units that BD has already ordered and some are already on its soil.

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## Bilal9

So you guys already understand how air support and air superiority is viewed in defense circles.

I think Bangladesh having potent air superiority capability (MRCA) is a much bigger headache strategically for our neighbors than us having any type of naval or army capability. If they can afford it - they would try to deny us that altogether.

Let's chew on that for a minute and have your eloquent thoughts.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> That does not really make sense as otherwise the Indians would have blocked the purchase of the Turkish TRG-300 MLRS.
> 
> These systems have a range of 120km could devastate lots of Indian military installations in neighbouring states like W Bengal and the NE.
> 
> 12-16 fighters would be far less of a threat to them than 18 of these units that BD has already ordered and some are already on its soil.



I can't say I agree.

MLRS and MRCA functions are not really similar. Please explain to me how a modern fighter like EFT having access to laser guided bombs and precision missiles equates to MLRS capability. One is a "paikari" shot gun (with no consideration for civilian collateral damage) another is a precision sniper situation with strategic aiming implications for defence-critical installations.

Range is not the only thing here and even so, MLRS is limited to only 120 KM range, we don't need to take the fight to the enemy if needed, beyond 120 KM?

Bangladesh having EFT can actually deal with neighbors wielding air assets, beyond any borders that can do far more damage to us than they can with MLRS alone.

No comparison.

এইবার আসেন বাংলায় আলাপ করি। আজকাল আমাদের ফোরাম এ বেশি ফল্স ফ্ল্যাগার এসে গেসে। এদের কে আমি আলাপের থেকে বাদ দিতে চাই।

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## UKBengali

Bilal9 said:


> I can't say I agree.
> 
> MLRS and MRCA functions are not really similar. Please explain to me how a modern fighter like EFT having access to laser guided bombs and precision missiles equates to MLRS capability. One is a "paikari" shot gun (with no consideration for civilian collateral damage) another is a precision sniper situation with strategic aiming implications for defence-critical installations.
> 
> If India had the leverage you say then BD would not be able to obtain what is an offensive system that can only realistically do serious damage to India.
> 
> Range is not the only thing here and even so, MLRS is limited to only 120 KM range, we don't need to take the fight to the enemy if needed, beyond 120 KM?
> 
> Bangladesh having EFT can actually deal with neighbors wielding air assets, beyond any borders that can do far more damage to us than they can with MLRS alone.
> 
> No comparison.
> 
> এইবার আসেন বাংলায় আলাপ করি। আজকাল আমাদের ফোরাম এ বেশি ফল্স ফ্ল্যাগার এসে গেসে। এদের কে আমি আলাপের থেকে বাদ দিতে চাই।



12-16 EFTs cannot do much damage to India and the IAF can neutralise them with AWACS and their Rafales but 18 120km range MLRS can devastate neighbouring Indian installations in a pre-emotive strike. India cannot stop the initial barrage and will have to take devastating losses at first before it can retaliate.

If India had the leverage you say then BD would not be able to obtain what is an offensive system that can only realistically do serious damage to India.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

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## ghost250

Bilal9 said:


> Unless Indians approve, Bangladesh isn't getting anything more potent as new platform than Yak-130.
> 
> Indians direct Hasina and Hasina has BAF chief in her pocket/purse. That is reality.
> 
> You think we don't have budget to buy these fighter platform. We have ten times over if needed.


vai,dont bring india in everythng...before pointing fingers to others why dont we look at ourselves!! nd plz make sure that u(BAF) r worthy enuf to accomplish such a task, they r incompetent clear as daylight ,nd sumtimes,u give too much credit to where its not due(india)... youtube e ja dekhben shob kisuh believe korar kono karon dekhi na vai.. @Atlas


Bilal9 said:


> I can't say I agree.
> 
> MLRS and MRCA functions are not really similar. Please explain to me how a modern fighter like EFT having access to laser guided bombs and precision missiles equates to MLRS capability. One is a "paikari" shot gun (with no consideration for civilian collateral damage) another is a precision sniper situation with strategic aiming implications for defence-critical installations.
> 
> *Range is not the only thing here and even so, MLRS is limited to only 120 KM range,* we don't need to take the fight to the enemy if needed, beyond 120 KM?
> 
> Bangladesh having EFT can actually deal with neighbors wielding air assets, beyond any borders that can do far more damage to us than they can with MLRS alone.
> 
> No comparison.
> 
> এইবার আসেন বাংলায় আলাপ করি। আজকাল আমাদের ফোরাম এ বেশি ফল্স ফ্ল্যাগার এসে গেসে। এদের কে আমি আলাপের থেকে বাদ দিতে চাই।


tactical ballistic missiles r also coming...range 280 kilometers!!

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## VikingRaider

ghost250 said:


> vai,dont bring india in everythng...before pointing fingers to others why dont we look at ourselves!! nd plz make sure that u(BAF) r worthy enuf to accomplish such a task, they r incompetent clear as daylight ,nd sumtimes,u give too much credit to where its not due(india)... youtube e ja dekhben shob kisuh believe korar kono karon dekhi na vai.. @Atlas


@ghost250, আমাকে ট্যাগ করার জন্য ধন্যবাদ ভাই।

আমি তো ব্যক্তিগত ভাবে মনে করি যে ভারত শুধু নৈরাজ্য সৃষ্টি করা ছাড়া বাংলাদেশের উপর আর কোন প্রভাব বিস্তার করার ক্ষমতা রাখে না।

খুব দুর্ভাগ্যের বিষয় এটা যে আমরা বুঝে বা না বুঝে ভারত কে অনেক বেশি ক্রেডিট দিয়ে ফেলছি। ওই *রাস্তায় হাগার জাত* আমাদের সামরিক বাহিনীর কোন কাজ অ্যাপ্রুভ করার কোন ক্ষমতা রাখে না।

ব্যক্তিগত ভাবে আমি বিশ্বাস করি যে মিলিটারি ডিপ স্টেটই বাংলাদেশ কে চালায়, হাসিনা জাস্ট তার ফ্রন্ট ফেস এ নিয়ে আমি আর @Bilal9 ভাই এখানেই অনেক বিস্তারিত আলোচনা করেছি।

আর যেহেতু আওয়ামী লীগের ভারত পন্থী হিসাবে একটা বদনাম আছে সেখানে মন্ত্রী মিনিস্টার দের ক্ষেত্রে অনেক কথাই বলা যায়।

কিন্তু সামরিক বাহিনীকে নিয়ে এমন কথা শুনে বেশ অবাক হয়েছি। সামরিক বাহিনী চাইলেই যা ইচ্ছা তা করতে পারে না, যেমন কোন সিভিল অ্যাডমিনিস্ট্রেশন কে উৎখাত করা, যদি না সেটা লাস্ট রিসর্ট হয়।

এটা করতে গেলে তো সারা পশ্চিমা দুনিয়া বাংলাদেশের উপর অবরোধ আরোপ করবে।

তখন বাংলাদেশ যাবে কোথায়? কাজেই সামরিক বাহিনী এসব সিভিলিয়ান দের ব্যাপারে সরাসরি নাক গলাবে না ( যেমন টা কিছু মানুষ প্রত্যাশা করে)।

পাকিস্তানের ডিপ স্টেট বাংলাদেশের চেয়েও অনেক শক্তিশালী বলেই মনে করি, কিন্তু দেখেন পাকিস্তানে সামনে থেকে কিন্তু সিভিল সরকার চালায়। মিশরে যদিও সেটা হচ্ছে না; সম্ভবত এরিয়াটা বেশি গোলমেলে এই জন্যেই।

কাজেই ভারতের অ্যাপ্রুভ নিয়ে সামরিক বাহিনী কোন কিছু কেনা কাটা করবে এটা ভাবাটা বাস্তবসম্মত না। বিমান কিনতে কেন দেরি হচ্ছে জানি না আমি, তবে আমার মনে হয় স্ট্রাটেজিক ইস্যু। অনেক বড় প্ল্যান নিয়ে বিমান বাহিনী এগুচ্ছে বলেই আমি মনে করি। দেশেই যুদ্ধবিমান তৈরি করার পরিকল্পনার কথাও শুনেছি। কারন এই এলাকায় মাথা উঁচু করে দাঁড়াতে চাইলে আমাদের অনেক পথ পার হতে হবে।

বিলাল ভাই আপনাকে সনির্বন্ধ অনুরোধ করছি, বাস্তব সম্মত এই ব্যাপার গুলো একটু গভীর ভাবে ভেবে দেখতে। আমি নিশ্চিত আপনি একটু গভীর ভাবে ভেবে দেখলেই ব্যাপারগুলো বুঝবেন।

*সরকারের নানা বাজে কর্মকাণ্ড দেখে আপনি আসলে হতাশ এটা বুঝি আমি। তবে সামরিক বাহিনীর সম্পর্কে এভাবে বলাটা দিন শেষে আমাদের নিজেদের অজান্তেই সার্বভৌমত্বের বিপক্ষেই যাবে। কারন সামরিন বাহিনী সমপুর্ন ভাবে ভারতের প্রভাব থেকে মুক্ত। সেটা না হলে আমরা অনেক আগেই স্বাধীনতা হারাতাম। বাইরের কেউ সাহায্য করত না। 

ক্রিমিয়ার ব্যাপার টা দেখেন, কিছু তর্জন গর্জন ছাড়া রাশিয়ার বিরুদ্ধে কোন মুভমেন্ট কেউ করতে পারে নি, কারন ইউক্রেনের সামরিক শক্তি বেশি নয়।

এখন রাশিয়া আবার ইউক্রেনের সাথে ঝামেলা পাকাচ্ছে। আমেরিকা কি করতে পারবে শুধু দুই চার টা হুংকার দেয়া ছাড়া? কিচ্ছু করতে পারবে না। *

আর ভারত রাশিয়ার তুলনায় একেবারেই শিশু, এরা ভাত পায় না, আমাদের সামরিক বাহিনীকে কিভাবে অ্যাপ্রুভ করবে? তাদের সেই সক্ষমতা আছে বলে আমি মনে করি না!


@Bilal9 ভাই।



Bilal9 said:


> Unless Indians approve, Bangladesh isn't getting anything more potent as new platform than Yak-130.
> 
> *Indians direct Hasina and Hasina has BAF chief in her pocket/purse. That is reality*.
> 
> You think we don't have budget to buy these fighter platform. We have ten times over if needed.


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## Bilal9

Atlas said:


> @ghost250, আমাকে ট্যাগ করার জন্য ধন্যবাদ ভাই।
> 
> আমি তো ব্যক্তিগত ভাবে মনে করি যে ভারত শুধু নৈরাজ্য সৃষ্টি করা ছাড়া বাংলাদেশের উপর আর কোন প্রভাব বিস্তার করার ক্ষমতা রাখে না।
> 
> খুব দুর্ভাগ্যের বিষয় এটা যে আমরা বুঝে বা না বুঝে ভারত কে অনেক বেশি ক্রেডিট দিয়ে ফেলছি। ওই *রাস্তায় হাগার জাত* আমাদের সামরিক বাহিনীর কোন কাজ অ্যাপ্রুভ করার কোন ক্ষমতা রাখে না।
> 
> ব্যক্তিগত ভাবে আমি বিশ্বাস করি যে মিলিটারি ডিপ স্টেটই বাংলাদেশ কে চালায়, হাসিনা জাস্ট তার ফ্রন্ট ফেস এ নিয়ে আমি আর @Bilal9 ভাই এখানেই অনেক বিস্তারিত আলোচনা করেছি।
> 
> আর যেহেতু আওয়ামী লীগের ভারত পন্থী হিসাবে একটা বদনাম আছে সেখানে মন্ত্রী মিনিস্টার দের ক্ষেত্রে অনেক কথাই বলা যায়।
> 
> কিন্তু সামরিক বাহিনীকে নিয়ে এমন কথা শুনে বেশ অবাক হয়েছি। সামরিক বাহিনী চাইলেই যা ইচ্ছা তা করতে পারে না, যেমন কোন সিভিল অ্যাডমিনিস্ট্রেশন কে উৎখাত করা, যদি না সেটা লাস্ট রিসর্ট হয়।
> 
> এটা করতে গেলে তো সারা পশ্চিমা দুনিয়া বাংলাদেশের উপর অবরোধ আরোপ করবে।
> 
> তখন বাংলাদেশ যাবে কোথায়? কাজেই সামরিক বাহিনী এসব সিভিলিয়ান দের ব্যাপারে সরাসরি নাক গলাবে না ( যেমন টা কিছু মানুষ প্রত্যাশা করে)।
> 
> পাকিস্তানের ডিপ স্টেট বাংলাদেশের চেয়েও অনেক শক্তিশালী বলেই মনে করি, কিন্তু দেখেন পাকিস্তানে সামনে থেকে কিন্তু সিভিল সরকার চালায়। মিশরে যদিও সেটা হচ্ছে না; সম্ভবত এরিয়াটা বেশি গোলমেলে এই জন্যেই।
> 
> কাজেই ভারতের অ্যাপ্রুভ নিয়ে সামরিক বাহিনী কোন কিছু কেনা কাটা করবে এটা ভাবাটা বাস্তবসম্মত না। বিমান কিনতে কেন দেরি হচ্ছে জানি না আমি, তবে আমার মনে হয় স্ট্রাটেজিক ইস্যু। অনেক বড় প্ল্যান নিয়ে বিমান বাহিনী এগুচ্ছে বলেই আমি মনে করি। দেশেই যুদ্ধবিমান তৈরি করার পরিকল্পনার কথাও শুনেছি। কারন এই এলাকায় মাথা উঁচু করে দাঁড়াতে চাইলে আমাদের অনেক পথ পার হতে হবে।
> 
> বিলাল ভাই আপনাকে সনির্বন্ধ অনুরোধ করছি, বাস্তব সম্মত এই ব্যাপার গুলো একটু গভীর ভাবে ভেবে দেখতে। আমি নিশ্চিত আপনি একটু গভীর ভাবে ভেবে দেখলেই ব্যাপারগুলো বুঝবেন।
> 
> *সরকারের নানা বাজে কর্মকাণ্ড দেখে আপনি আসলে হতাশ এটা বুঝি আমি। তবে সামরিক বাহিনীর সম্পর্কে এভাবে বলাটা দিন শেষে আমাদের নিজেদের অজান্তেই সার্বভৌমত্বের বিপক্ষেই যাবে। কারন সামরিন বাহিনী সমপুর্ন ভাবে ভারতের প্রভাব থেকে মুক্ত। সেটা না হলে আমরা অনেক আগেই স্বাধীনতা হারাতাম। বাইরের কেউ সাহায্য করত না।
> 
> ক্রিমিয়ার ব্যাপার টা দেখেন, কিছু তর্জন গর্জন ছাড়া রাশিয়ার বিরুদ্ধে কোন মুভমেন্ট কেউ করতে পারে নি, কারন ইউক্রেনের সামরিক শক্তি বেশি নয়।
> 
> এখন রাশিয়া আবার ইউক্রেনের সাথে ঝামেলা পাকাচ্ছে। আমেরিকা কি করতে পারবে শুধু দুই চার টা হুংকার দেয়া ছাড়া? কিচ্ছু করতে পারবে না। *
> 
> আর ভারত রাশিয়ার তুলনায় একেবারেই শিশু, এরা ভাত পায় না, আমাদের সামরিক বাহিনীকে কিভাবে অ্যাপ্রুভ করবে? তাদের সেই সক্ষমতা আছে বলে আমি মনে করি না!
> 
> 
> @Bilal9 ভাই।



এই ব্যাখ্যা ভালভাবে করার জন্য ধন্যবাদ @Atlas ভাই। আপনার পয়েন্টগুলো বৈধ/যুক্তিসম্মতঃ এবং আমি এখন এগুলো স্পষ্টভাবে দেখছি । তবে আমরা শক্তিশালী হয়ে যাই তা ভারতীয়রা কখনোই চাইবেনা।

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## VikingRaider

Bilal9 said:


> এই ব্যাখ্যা ভালভাবে করার জন্য ধন্যবাদ @Atlas ভাই। আপনার পয়েন্টগুলো বৈধ/যুক্তিসম্মতঃ এবং আমি এখন এগুলো স্পষ্টভাবে দেখছি ।


ধন্যবাদ @Bilal9 ভাই।


Bilal9 said:


> তবে আমরা শক্তিশালী হয়ে যাই তা ভারতীয়রা কখনোই চাইবেনা।


সেটা তো অবশ্যই। শত্রু কোনদিনই চাইবে না যে আমরা শক্তিশালী হই। তবে শত্রুর চাওয়া না চাওয়ায় কি যায় আসে বলেন।
তবে হ্যাঁ, শত্রু তার সর্ব শক্তি প্রয়োগ করতে দ্বিধা করবে না।

তবে দেখেন আমাদের ও মোকাবেলা করার ক্ষমতা আছে। মুরাদ টাকলাকে যে প্রক্রিয়ায় সরানো হল, ইতিমধ্যেই শত্রু বুঝে গেছে যে ইঁট মারলে কি ধরনের পাটকেল খেতে হয়।

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## Species

Destranator said:


> This would make sense if BA and BN were not growing, they are. BAF is BAF, perpetual thumbtwiddlers. They expect civilian bureaucrats and politicians to pick an MRCA and shove it down their throat. Civilians have better things to do.



To be honest, I don't see any meaningful purchases from BN either. Their only major activity in the last 12 years was renaming BNS Khalid Bin Walid to BNS Bangabandhu_._

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## Bilal9

Species said:


> To be honest, I don't see any meaningful purchases from BN either. Their only major activity in the last 12 years was renaming BNS Khalid Bin Walid to BNS Bangabandhu_._



I'd say next move by BN which will REALLY earn my respect is getting some QUIET diesel subs. Maybe about three or four.

We needed this like - yesterday.

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## Destranator

Species said:


> To be honest, I don't see any meaningful purchases from BN either. Their only major activity in the last 12 years was renaming BNS Khalid Bin Walid to BNS Bangabandhu_._


Ki boley, na boley. Dhur.


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## Species

Bilal9 said:


> I'd say next move by BN which will REALLY earn my respect is getting some QUIET diesel subs. Maybe about three or four.
> 
> We needed this like - yesterday.



About time. 

Their surface fleet is not any better, only limited to brown water defensive operations with an aging fleet. 

And I have no idea what's stopping them from installing a proper coastal defence system, a lack of a decent airforce only adds to its exigency.


Bilal9 said:


> So you guys already understand how air support and air superiority is viewed in defense circles.
> 
> I think Bangladesh having potent air superiority capability (MRCA) is a much bigger headache strategically for our neighbors than us having any type of naval or army capability. If they can afford it - they would try to deny us that altogether.
> 
> Let's chew on that for a minute and have your eloquent thoughts.



Modern warfare is all about air superiority, without that, both Army and Navy are sitting ducks.

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## mb444

Atlas said:


> @ghost250, আমাকে ট্যাগ





Species said:


> To be honest, I don't see any meaningful purchases from BN either. Their only major activity in the last 12 years was renaming BNS Khalid Bin Walid to BNS Bangabandhu_._




It is a harsh indictment but is true.

BN in the last decade has acquired lot more ships, introduced submarines, sourced longer range missiles and radars. But the question is have these changed our defense equation vis-a-vis our neighbours.

Unfortunately i do not believe it has. True offensive capacity that we have acquired are the mings....that is all. It is too little.

And as you have said without adequate air support navies efficacy is seriously hampered.

BN has been on a tranformative journey, this absolutely should be acknowledged because it has been a result of a lot of hard work. However we are in a race and in that BN lags far behind our enemy. Can we keep the bay open against IN....yes now we can for a couple of weeks perhaps....this we could not before.

We need to be better...

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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> It is a harsh indictment but is true.
> 
> BN in the last decade has acquired lot more ships, introduced submarines, sourced longer range missiles and radars. But the question is have these changed our defense equation vis-a-vis our neighbours.
> 
> Unfortunately i do not believe it has. True offensive capacity that we have acquired are the mings....that is all. It is too little.
> 
> And as you have said without adequate air support navies efficacy is seriously hampered.
> 
> BN has been on a tranformative journey, this absolutely should be acknowledged because it has been a result of a lot of hard work. However we are in a race and in that BN lags far behind our enemy. Can we keep the bay open against IN....yes now we can for a couple of weeks perhaps....this we could not before.
> 
> We need to be better...






Without those 6 air-defence frigates and 6-8 modern diesel electric submarines, BN cannot hope to keep the sea lanes open for even a few days against the Indian Navy.

As well as air-defence frigates and subs, BN needs a dedicated naval squadron of strike fighters that can carry long-range anti-ship missiles in order to put some more fear into the Indians if they want to impose a naval blockade on Bangladesh.

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## mb444

These will take time. Immediate urgency is land based missiles whilst more substantial assets are aquired. Good to see there are some talks on that from BA and BN.

We need truck based mobile missiles to secure the bay. Tracking even a ming is not easy if we can deny IN operational freedom. Missile tec is cheap, easy and effective against surface fleet.

As the IN donkey chief says its all about ships we can make them worship our missiles...

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## Bilal9

*Bangabandhu Military Museum, Tejgaon (Not too bad, huh?)  











































*

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> *Bangabandhu Military Museum, Tejgaon (Not too bad, huh?)
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Looks nice.

But I wish they would give equal effort to actually giving the armed forces teeth.

MRCA?

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Looks nice.
> 
> But I wish they would give equal effort to actually giving the armed forces teeth.
> 
> MRCA?




You are missing the big picture..... the museum was not created to showcase the armed forces....the armed forces was created to showcase this museum hence the universal "antique" arsenal across our forces....

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> *Bangabandhu Military Museum, Tejgaon (Not too bad, huh?)
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Looks great. I think BAF should relocate its HQ here and free up the current site for something more productive.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Looks great. I think BAF should relocate its HQ here and free up the current site for something more productive.



Desh getting washed away with "development" - and you are focusing on narrow things....

BAF HQ will be built new to rival the Pentagon !! This museum will look like a village primary school in comparison.

Ashitecchey....Just watch. ;-)

In other more serious news, look at this. This guy is saying Bangladesh will be better off buying the used/surplus Mirage 2000N from UAE air-force which will be superb bang-for-the-buck...UAE air-force is getting new higher spec Rafales by 2026 and they will let go of the Mirage 2000s cheap.

While a bit far out as an idea, the value proposition can't be beat, especially if the French can give us a good price on engine overhauls and at least partial teardown overhaul for the avionics and flying surfaces maintenance for the Mirage bodies (C/D checks). Great for interim measure in my opinion. Whatever we order as MRCA is not getting anywhere near BAF bases until say 2028. These Mirage 2000N's could be good stopgap measure...


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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> Desh getting washed away with "development" - and you are focusing on narrow things....
> 
> BAF HQ will be built new to rival the Pentagon !! This museum will look like a village primary school in comparison.
> 
> Ashitecchey....Just watch. ;-)
> 
> In other more serious news, look at this. This guy is saying Bangladesh will be better off buying the used/surplus Mirage 2000N from UAE air-force which will be superb bang-for-the-buck...UAE air-force is getting new higher spec Rafales by 2026 and they will let go of the Mirage 2000s cheap.
> 
> While a bit far out as an idea, the value proposition can't be beat, especially if the French can give us a good price on engine overhauls and at least partial teardown overhaul for the avionics and flying surfaces maintenance for the Mirage bodies (C/D checks). Great for interim measure in my opinion. Whatever we order as MRC is not getting anywhere near BAF bases until say 2028.


I am not very comfortable dealing with French. They are notorious for delays and price gouging. BAF should put their two bit brains together and go for Gripen and KF-21 with ToT.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Bilal9 said:


> *Bangabandhu Military Museum, Tejgaon (Not too bad, huh?)
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huge respect to the BAF for keeping their entire fleet of museum pieces in flying condition for historical value and re-enactment purposes .


Bilal9 said:


>


this guy is a shill for french made weapons.

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## Indos

Bilal9 said:


> *Bangabandhu Military Museum, Tejgaon (Not too bad, huh?)
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Looks very good.

While we have one in Jakarta, mostly kids who visit this place wether with their school or parents






This is one for Air Force Museum in Yogyakarta, Central Java

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## F-6 enthusiast

Bilal9 said:


> UAE air-force is getting new higher spec Rafales by 2026 and they will let go of the Mirage


UAE-AF will probably retire them. Not much life left in them. IAF may buy these for spare parts since the M2000 production line closed. 
Maybe @Philip the Arab knows.

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## Philip the Arab

F-6 enthusiast said:


> UAE-AF will probably retire them. Not much life left in them. IAF may buy these for spare parts since the M2000 production line closed.
> Maybe @Philip the Arab knows.


Egypt or Morocco probably.

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## F-6 enthusiast

F-6 enthusiast said:


>


sneak peek into the BM cockpit
the right CRT screen displaying the radar *MAY *have been replaced by a Multi Functional Display. 

See bottom left corner of screen in video





this is an SMT cockpit for reference (the old A/B cockpit is attached above)

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## ghost250

F-6 enthusiast said:


> sneak peek into the BM cockpit
> the right CRT screen displaying the radar *MAY *have been replaced by a Multi Functional Display.
> 
> See bottom left corner of screen in video
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> this is an SMT cockpit for reference (the old A/B cockpit is attached above)
> View attachment 801430


Our "ottadhunik" mig 29 have been upgraded into BM standard atlast...that air force pilot clearly mentioned about "upgradation"...they now can carry air to ground ,air to ship(maritime) munitions

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## F-6 enthusiast

ghost250 said:


> Our "ottadhunik" mig 29 have been upgraded into BM standard atlast...that air force pilot clearly mentioned about "upgradation"...they now can carry air to ground ,air to ship(maritime) munitions


faithfully served BAF however, i don't know how long we can keep flying these 
Should get R-77-1 as interim solution until MRCA arrive. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470657213265969154

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## F-6 enthusiast

its over boys (maybe)





__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.110165433876302/464392875120221

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## leonblack08

F-6 enthusiast said:


> its over boys (maybe)
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> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/photos/a.110165433876302/464392875120221



Then two weeks later in another post they will say, "The deal fell apart. we can't control if external factors influence the decision blah blah blah" 

When it comes to BAF, unless the contract is signed, not believing anything!

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## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> Then two weeks later in another post they will say, "The deal fell apart. we can't control if external factors influence the decision blah blah blah"
> 
> When it comes to BAF, unless the contract is signed, not believing anything!



As skeptical as I am, I am willing to believe this.

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## Bilal9

Indos said:


> Looks very good.
> 
> While we have one in Jakarta, mostly kids who visit this place wether with their school or parents
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Jakarta AF Museum looks nice brother.  

Yeah the Airforce Museum in Dhaka is also for elementary (Primary) and middle (Secondary) school children and "science-trips", the exhibits are geared for secondary school age children, 8-12 years typically. Brainwashing should start early.  

I remember when I was in seventh grade, they took us to the Atomic energy commission in Dhaka to have the scientists brief us on various things.


Avicenna said:


> As skeptical as I am, I am willing to believe this.



Amader jonno Purnima chand-i jholshano rooti....

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## Bilal9

ghost250 said:


> Our "ottadhunik" mig 29 have been upgraded into BM standard atlast...that air force pilot clearly mentioned about "upgradation"...they now can carry air to ground ,air to ship(maritime) munitions



Any idea what those air to ship (maritime) munitions are? Do Russians make something similar to an Exocet? Or if you can fit Chinese weapons in these MiG-29's, what would be a Chinese analog of something like an Exocet?

@Beast and @Dungeness brothers would you know off-hand?

I don't believe our F-7 BGI's are capable of launching maritime munitions, much less having BVR capability...


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## bluesky

An airforce cannot just buy planes without first building correct infrastructures. BAF is probably buying Rafael from France because it can also be used in naval engagements. Please watch the video footage below:

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## Beast

Bilal9 said:


> Any idea what those air to ship (maritime) munitions are? Do Russians make something similar to an Exocet? Or if you can fit Chinese weapons in these MiG-29's, what would be a Chinese analog of something like an Exocet?
> 
> @Beast and @Dungeness brothers would you know off-hand?


I don't think possible. The radar of Mig-29 is not Chinese one. Not possible.

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## Bilal9

Beast said:


> I don't think possible. The radar of Mig-29 is not Chinese one. Not possible.



Thanks for confirming.


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## Bilal9

bluesky said:


> An airforce cannot just buy planes without first building correct infrastructures. BAF is probably buying Rafael from France because it can also be used in naval engagements. Please watch the video footage below:



কক্সস বাজার এয়ারপোর্টে কয়েক সপ্তাহ আগে উড্ডয়নকালে বোয়িং ৭৩৭ বিমান এর ধাক্কায় দুই জরাজীর্ণ গরু ইন্তিকাল করে। জানা যায় নিরাপত্তার ভারপ্রাপ্ত আনসার সদস্যরা দুই বেলা খাবারের বিনিময়ে পার্শবর্তী গ্রামের বাসিন্দাদের রানওয়ে তে গরু চড়ানোর পারমিশন দিয়েছিলেন। এই হলো আমাদের দেশের শিক্ষা আর অনুধাবন এর নমুনা। আমার কিচ্ছু বলার নাই। এর পড়ে এফ-৩৫ নিয়া আসলেও লাভ নাই।


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## bluesky

Bilal9 said:


> কক্সস বাজার এয়ারপোর্টে কয়েক সপ্তাহ আগে উড্ডয়নকালে বোয়িং ৭৩৭ বিমান এর ধাক্কায় দুই জরাজীর্ণ গরু ইন্তিকাল করে। জানা যায় নিরাপত্তার ভারপ্রাপ্ত আনসার সদস্যরা দুই বেলা খাবারের বিনিময়ে পার্শবর্তী গ্রামের বাসিন্দাদের রানওয়ে তে গরু চড়ানোর পারমিশন দিয়েছিলেন। এই হলো আমাদের দেশের শিক্ষা আর অনুধাবন এর নমুনা। আমার কিচ্ছু বলার নাই। এর পড়ে এফ-৩৫ নিয়া আসলেও লাভ নাই।


At the end of 1975, I went to Chittagong Airport to take a flight to Dhaka. I found cows inside the airport eating grass.

Well, this is our golden Bangladesh. People are just a bunch of callous idiots not knowing they live in the 21st-century world.

So, a similar thing still happens to other airports where the security is breached every now and then. Perhaps, the Cox's Bazaar airport has no security fence. I happened to be in this airport only once, as well.

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> Any idea what those air to ship (maritime) munitions are? Do Russians make something similar to an Exocet? Or if you can fit Chinese weapons in these MiG-29's, what would be a Chinese analog of something like an Exocet?
> 
> @Beast and @Dungeness brothers would you know off-hand?
> 
> I don't believe our F-7 BGI's are capable of launching maritime munitions, much less having BVR capability...


BAF is already in the process of getting supersonic KH-31A's.



https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4625.pdf?fbclid=IwAR27uJ3UAbgD1fVU0_JZtAtiLqVIrAkjDCv19uvyfu5DVgIBQoc4LL5T9y0

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> BAF is already in the process of getting supersonic KH-31A's.
> 
> 
> 
> https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc/4625.pdf?fbclid=IwAR27uJ3UAbgD1fVU0_JZtAtiLqVIrAkjDCv19uvyfu5DVgIBQoc4LL5T9y0



That is indeed great news. However I feel that a more modern airborne maritime strike platform (networked with our Naval Combat Management System i.e. Thales Tacticos) would be a better choice for carrying these maritime missiles to target in the Bay of Bengal. For now - KH-31A's should serve nicely.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> As skeptical as I am, I am willing to believe this.


Please note that American sanctions on RAB/ Police officials may not end there as far as I understand. It may go also to the BD access to American weapons and NATO/ European weapons as well. 

This may include also French Rafael and/ or Eurotyphoon unless the GoB or RAB and Police do not reverse their policy of intimidation of the opposition people. 

Anyway, this is only my personal opinion. However, the USA does not adopt a new policy all of a sudden nor does it withdraw a policy until the subject country specifically and clearly changes policies that caused America to put sanctions.

America has a very long arm to twist rogue govts. Dr. Henry Kissinger once said, "If America is your friend, you don't need an enemy". He was the Foreign Minister then. 

And now, America has taken us for an enemy country. we can expect many kinds of enmity. I just wish that country does not start taking less amount of garments products from us. This will ruin BD future, a bleak scenario. 

The GoB must watch out over the America's next step.


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## BlackViking

leonblack08 said:


> Then two weeks later in another post they will say, "The deal fell apart. we can't control if external factors influence the decision blah blah blah"
> 
> When it comes to BAF, unless the contract is signed, not believing anything!


True but eft is out of the game. Baf has given serious thought to Russian jets recently. I dont think that's gonna materialize. So we will end up buying rafale as I said before. Besides baf is interested in rafale for a long time. But I don't think we are buying brand new. We will buy 2nd hand F3r most probably from France air force. 
On the other hand uncle Sam is putting a lot of pressures to sell F16 , Apache and 2nd hand Blackhawks. Let's see what happens.


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## UKBengali

BlackViking said:


> True but eft is out of the game. Baf has given serious thought to Russian jets recently. I dont think that's gonna materialize. So we will end up buying rafale as I said before. Besides baf is interested in rafale for a long time. But I don't think we are buying brand new. We will buy 2nd hand F3r most probably from France air force.
> On the other hand uncle Sam is putting a lot of pressures to sell F16 , Apache and 2nd hand Blackhawks. Let's see what happens.





No offence dude but you have absolutely no information to claim BAF will buy Rafale.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> No offence dude but you have absolutely no information to claim BAF will buy Rafale.



I wouldn't be surprised if they did buy Rafale.

It sorta makes complete sense.

Although the major downside is that India has it.

But other than that why not?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they did buy Rafale.
> 
> It sorta makes complete sense.
> 
> Although the major downside is that India has it.
> 
> But other than that why not?





Still why claim this when you have zero inside information?

It looks like a toss-up between Eurofighter and Rafale to me. F-16 is an outsider and I would not mind too much as long as it was the V-variant with AIM-120D package.


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## BlackViking

UKBengali said:


> No offence dude but you have absolutely no information to claim BAF will buy Rafale.


Like i said....let's see what happens. Announcement might come soon. Everything will be clear as day.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Still why claim this when you have zero inside information?
> 
> It looks like a toss-up between Eurofighter and Rafale to me. F-16 is an outsider and I would not mind too much as long as it was the V-variant with AIM-120D package.



The problem with US gear is that they likely won't release the full spectrum of armament to BD. i.e. Iraq and their Block 50/52 Vipers. (Forget about -D AMRAAMs)

So that may hinder BAF getting F-16/F-18.

Now Rafale is the next best thing due to its more mature antiship and multirole capabilities vis a vis Eurofighter.

We can see the emphasis BD is apparently putting on the maritime mission.

For that Rafale or F-18 > Eurofighter or F-16.

Again the downside is the Rafale in Indian AF service.

But, somehow I don't think BD cares.

It may be the this is acceptable to India much like them wanting BD to get Mig-35.

Or it may be that Rafale is better suited for BAF needs irrespective of India.

Or maybe a little bit of everything.

The only thing I know is Rafale > Mig-29 or F-7.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> The problem with US gear is that they likely won't release the full spectrum of armament to BD. i.e. Iraq and their Block 50/52 Vipers. (Forget about -D AMRAAMs)
> 
> So that may hinder BAF getting F-16/F-18.
> 
> Now Rafale is the next best thing due to its more mature antiship and multirole capabilities vis a vis Eurofighter.
> 
> We can see the emphasis BD is apparently putting on the maritime mission.
> 
> For that Rafale or F-18 > Eurofighter or F-16.
> 
> Again the downside is the Rafale in Indian AF service.
> 
> But, somehow I don't think BD cares.
> 
> It may be the this is acceptable to India much like them wanting BD to get Mig-35.
> 
> Or it may be that Rafale is better suited for BAF needs irrespective of India.
> 
> Or maybe a little bit of everything.
> 
> The only thing I know is Rafale > Mig-29 or F-7.


The morons should just get Gripens and KF-21's - both with ToT. I don't need to justify Gripens. As for KF-21's, this one is a future proof platform. BAF has the opportunity to become an early investor and align its aeronautical university and complex with the rolling R&D.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> BAF is already in the process of getting supersonic KH-31A's.
> 
> https://dgdp.gov.bd/dgdp/AP_TEN/doc...VU0_JZtAtiLqVIrAkjDCv19uvyfu5DVgIBQoc4LL5T9y0


burmese operate the ak-630 ciws (from soviet era) and manpads which will be hopeless against supersonic missiles.

regarding the probable rafale acquisition 
look on the bright side , 
1. we could integrate UAE made weapons if we get the refale
2. Exocet block-3 , SCALPE (300km modified ), SPEAR EW (to deaL with s-400), built in ew suite etc 
3. Bd gov can boast no. of raffle per capita  
4. kickbacks ?  💶💶💶
5. Defseca's reputation in the gutter 
6. BAF finally gets something offensive


what's not to like ?

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> The morons should just get Gripens and KF-21's - both with ToT. I don't need to justify Gripens. As for KF-21's, this one is a future proof platform. BAF has the opportunity to become an early investor and align its aeronautical university and complex with the rolling R&D.



Yes, but what geostrategic impact does that have?

Sweden and South Korea/Indonesia?

Or France, UK, EU, US?

Remember who comprises the permanent members of the UNSC.

3 > 2

Perhaps BD is spreading her bets to carry favor among various world powers?

We all know who Russia and China supports in regards to Myanmar.

The other issue is of course India.

But I think actual conflict with India is next to nil.


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## Imran Khan

it seems BD waiting for world to move on 7th gen so they buy 4+ gen fighter . BTW in this region first real 4th gen fighter was came just 40 years ago .

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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> Desh getting washed away with "development" - and you are focusing on narrow things....
> 
> BAF HQ will be built new to rival the Pentagon !! This museum will look like a village primary school in comparison.
> 
> Ashitecchey....Just watch. ;-)
> 
> In other more serious news, look at this. This guy is saying Bangladesh will be better off buying the used/surplus Mirage 2000N from UAE air-force which will be superb bang-for-the-buck...UAE air-force is getting new higher spec Rafales by 2026 and they will let go of the Mirage 2000s cheap.
> 
> While a bit far out as an idea, the value proposition can't be beat, especially if the French can give us a good price on engine overhauls and at least partial teardown overhaul for the avionics and flying surfaces maintenance for the Mirage bodies (C/D checks). Great for interim measure in my opinion. Whatever we order as MRCA is not getting anywhere near BAF bases until say 2028. These Mirage 2000N's could be good stopgap measure...


 
Interim measures at some point need to stop. Buying legacy french jets to put up against latest french jet would only be proposed by hindutva agents or morons.

With airforce you have to at the very least meet or best your enemies qualitatively if quantity is out of question as is for us. Otherwise simply give up on having a airforce altogether as everything spent on such a venture is a waste of time.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Yes, but what geostrategic impact does that have?
> 
> Sweden and South Korea/Indonesia?
> 
> Or France, UK, EU, US?
> 
> Remember who comprises the permanent members of the UNSC.
> 
> 3 > 2
> 
> Perhaps BD is spreading her bets to carry favor among various world powers?
> 
> We all know who Russia and China supports in regards to Myanmar.
> 
> The other issue is of course India.
> 
> But I think actual conflict with India is next to nil.


Bangladesh should not make procurement decisions to appease anybody. None of these countries would stick by BD consistently on every issue regardless of what you buy from them.
Our primary considerations should be:
1. Technological edge
2. ToT
3. Futureproofing
4. Modularity
5. Development of BAC and BAU
6. Lifecycle costs

Sweden through Gripen has a proven track record to support the above and I believe South Korea and Indonesia would offer the same as they would appreciate early investment in the development of KF-21 from BD.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Bangladesh should not make procurement decisions to appease anybody. None of these countries would stick by BD consistently on every issue regardless of what you buy from them.
> Our primary considerations should be:
> 1. Technological edge
> 2. ToT
> 3. Futureproofing
> 4. Modularity
> 5. Development of BAC and BAU
> 6. Lifecycle costs
> 
> Sweden through Gripen has a proven track record to support the above and I believe South Korea and Indonesia would offer the same as they would appreciate early investment in the development of KF-21 from BD.



Procurement decisions are highly political.

Case in point, Qatar.

I agree with your points 1-6 though.

But there was a video which I'm trying to find where some BD official stated geostrategic concerns were also a factor in their decision.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Procurement decisions are highly political.
> 
> Case in point, Qatar.
> 
> I agree with your points 1-6 though.
> 
> But there was a video which I'm trying to find where some BD official stated geostrategic concerns were also a factor in their decision.


Yes, it was a statement from the Foreign Secretary. Going with Sweden, Indonesia and South Korea would not particularly irk China and Russia while the West would benefit indirectly by securing orders for components and armaments.
Mind you both Gripen E/F and KF-21 would be running on GE F414 engines (USA) and be capable of firing MBDA (France, UK, Spain, Germany, Italy) armanents.
KF-21 could potentially be able to also fire Turkish missiles.


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## Indos

Destranator said:


> Yes, it was a statement from the Foreign Secretary. Going with Sweden, Indonesia and South Korea would not particularly irk China and Russia while the West would benefit indirectly by securing orders for components and armaments.
> Mind you both Gripen E/F and KF-21 would be running on GE F414 engines (USA) and be capable of firing MBDA (France, UK, Spain, Germany, Italy) armanents.
> KF-21 could potentially be able to also fire Turkish missiles.



Ya, I think Indonesia can integrated Turkish SOM missile in KF21/IFX. Korean by the way will not likey do that as they have similar missile under development.

By the way does Bangladesh already build Aerospace company yet ? As I know BD has already made an Aerospace university

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## Destranator

Indos said:


> Ya, I think Indonesia can integrated Turkish SOM missile in KF21/IFX. Korean by the way will not likey do that as they have similar missile under development.
> 
> By the way does Bangladesh already build Aerospace company yet ? As I know BD has already made an Aerospace university



Yes an aeronautical center (Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center) has been established by MoD/BAF.




__





Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org






Currently it is mainly focusing on overhauling Chengdu F-7's and is set to maintain Grob 120P trainers.

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> Yes an aeronautical center (Bangabandhu Aeronautical Center) has been established by MoD/BAF.
> Currently it is mainly focusing on overhauling Chengdu F-7's and is set to maintain Grob 120P trainers.



MRO business can be quite big as well, just see Singapore who dont have complete aerospace company like Indonesian Aerospace, KAI Korea, TAI Turkish and others, but with military MRO alone, Singapore Aerospace (under ST engineering) can get so far around 500 C 130 planes MRO business ( refurbished, overhaul, upgrade).

For MRO business, Indonesian SOE, GMF AeroAsia, has also entered military MRO business and currently get order around 80 million USD to do MRO for Indonesian C 130 planes. Hopefully after this experience we can be a competitor of Singapore Aerospace to do MRO business for C 130 planes where the planes population around the world is quite many.

Starting from MRO is a good step

This GMF AeroAsia facility for C 130 planes

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## Indos

If BD insisted to buy MRCA next year, better choosing Gripen, much cheaper than Rafale and Eurofighter. F16 could be out of the game after latest US sanction on BD high official

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## Destranator

Indos said:


> If BD insisted to buy MRCA next year, better choosing Gripen, much cheaper than Rafale and Eurofighter. F16 could be out of the game after latest US sanction on BD high official
> 
> View attachment 801736



This is why I propose a combination of Gripens and KF-21's.
Gripens can be delivered earlier.

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## Indos

Destranator said:


> This is why I propose a combination of Gripen and KF-21.



Ideally ( efficiency and effectiveness) it should be all KF21, but if BD insisted to order MRCA in 2021-2024 then Gripen should be the choice. In term of TOT, SAB Swedia is more willing to give TOT than Dassault.

BD can start ordering KF21 block 2 in 2030 ( if the program is successful inshaAllah ). TFX can be the other choice, but so far the engine issue is still not yet fixed.

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## Avicenna

Qatar Air Force Rafale.

Would LOVE some METEORS for BAF!

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Qatar Air Force Rafale.
> 
> Would LOVE some METEORS for BAF!
> 
> View attachment 801987


At this point, I will accept anything BAF buys that can fire Meteors, be that may a Qatari camel.

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## Pandora

Indos said:


> If BD insisted to buy MRCA next year, better choosing Gripen, much cheaper than Rafale and Eurofighter. F16 could be out of the game after latest US sanction on BD high official
> 
> View attachment 801736



US has a nasty habbit of putting sanctions on individual parts as well. Example being T129 sale to Pakistan where engines were withheld. Gripen has its own cons with parts being sourced from so many others engiene being from US.

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

Pandora said:


> US has a nasty habbit of putting sanctions on individual parts as well. Example being T129 sale to Pakistan where engines were withheld. Gripen has its own cons with parts being sourced from so many others engiene being from US.


Bangladesh is not Pakistan.

US has no reason to do such things with BD.

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## Pandora

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Bangladesh is not Pakistan.
> 
> US has no reason to do such things with BD.



They just sanctioned Bangladeshi para military org with driect links to Hassina Wajid. They didnt invite bangladesh to Democracy summit as well. I mean bangaldesh can always try their luck i am not saying Bangladesh is Pakistan either.

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## alphapak

BAF needs both Gripens and J10's but BAF reminds me of a 18 year old who just passed his driving test
and wants to buy a Ferrari as his first Car.😀

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## leonblack08

alphapak said:


> BAF needs both Gripens and J10's but BAF reminds me of a 18 year old who just passed his driving test
> and wants to buy a Ferrari as his first Car.😀



What makes you think that BAF is just a newbie who wants to buy a Ferrari? There is no reason why BAF can't operate Gripens, Rafales or EFTs.

For some background context, BAF operated Mig 21s in 1970s, when it was still one of the most state of the art fighter jet of that time, albeit those being donations from USSR.

BAF is in this sorry state currently because of a combination of incompetent leadership lacking foresight, inter services rivalry and politics and of course the external factors.

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## Destranator

alphapak said:


> BAF needs both Gripens and J10's but BAF reminds me of a 18 year old who just passed his driving test
> and wants to buy a Ferrari as his first Car.😀


BAF is like a normal 18 year old on diapers - way overdue for taking them off.

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## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> What makes you think that BAF is just a newbie who wants to buy a Ferrari? There is no reason why BAF can't operate Gripens, Rafales or EFTs.
> 
> For some background context, BAF operated Mig 21s in 1970s, when it was still one of the most state of the art fighter jet of that time, albeit those being donations from USSR.
> 
> BAF is in this sorry state currently because of a combination of incompetent leadership lacking foresight, inter services rivalry and politics and of course the external factors.



It's interesting both Croatia and Bangladesh are linked to Rafale around the same time.

I would argue that BAF has less of a gap (at least in terms of the hardware it flys) than CAF.

BAF has a total of 39 Mig-29 (8) and late model F-7BG/BGI (31) to Rafale.

CAF has its 8 Mig-21bis to Rafale.









Rafale Fighter Jet Acquisition: A Major Leap Forward for the Croatian Air Force


by J. Kasper Oestergaard, European Correspondent, Forecast International. For years, Croatia has been in the process of modernizing its air force by replacing older Soviet-era aircraft with both ne…




dsm.forecastinternational.com





@alphapak

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473990180738535424

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473990180738535424


What AAMs are used by BAF??

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## F-6 enthusiast

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> What AAMs are used by BAF??


mainly R-27, R-73, PL-9, PL-8

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473990180738535424





Good to hear finally.

BAF already has R-73E but really needs the active-radar guided R-77 to turn its Mig-29s into true BVR capable fighters.

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> BAF already has R-73E but really needs the active-radar guided R-77 to turn its Mig-29s into true BVR capable fighters.


Although its good news,
R-77s aren't really that good , depending on the flight profile it can get 23km to 50km. R-27ER1 has better range but probably worse seeker.
This should have been done much earlier.
if there was a word(or two ) to describe BAF it would be *decision paralysis*


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## blain2

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Bangladesh is not Pakistan.
> 
> US has no reason to do such things with BD.


People said the same about Turkey and even the Saudis 10 years ago. I.e. US would never stop providing military gear etc. The day BNP comes into power and pushes away from being too aligned with India, roadblocks and sanctions are very much a possibility. You'd have to be an idiot if you were in a Muslim country and did not think US sanctions are applicable to your country. It is just a matter of time. Watch within the next 5 years, Egypt (already is) and possibly even Jordan would be sanctioned.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Although its good news,
> R-77s aren't really that good , depending on the flight profile it can get 23km to 50km. R-27ER1 has better range but probably worse seeker.
> This should have been done much earlier.
> if there was a word(or two ) to describe BAF it would be *decision paralysis*


Russia is working to improve R-77. Hope BAF gets an effective variant.


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## Destranator

One advantage of getting Rafales would be access to NATO standard equipment without the threat of US strings - France is pretty pissed at the US due to the Australian submarine fiasco. They are desperately looking for new markets and would love to have BD enter the ecosystem of French weapon systems.
The big disadvantage would be the influence of India as a major customer over the French.

Thoughts?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> One advantage of getting Rafales would be access to NATO standard equipment without the threat of US strings - France is pretty pissed at the US due to the Australian submarine fiasco. They are desperately looking for new markets and would love to have BD enter the ecosystem of French weapon systems.
> The big disadvantage would be the influence of India as a major customer over the French. I left out the Italians because they are reliable defence partners
> 
> Thoughts?


okay this is my opinion ,

1. French will sell their gear to anyone willing and able to pay (even to their own enemies) . They take their weapons industry very seriously (many jobs at stake). Egypt managed to acquire the Scalpe 560km stealth cruise missile despite USA, isntreal whining and not being part of MTCR.





during the Iran-Iraq war , france supplied Mirage F-1 and exocet from its own inventory
Sold Pakistan the Agosta Submarine technology with AIP (most advanced at the time of introduction) when the Americans were embargoing them for nuclear programme.
Russian T-72b3/T-80UK had thermal imaging system from Thales Catherine FC. Not to mention the LHD deal which got cancelled.
UK Germany don't have this flexibility , you are an arms dealer , act like one.



the downsides:
Corruption on deals (former french president comically stole money from the Pakistan Agosta deal and put it to his own election campaign which he lost )




Price hiking (in conflict scenario)


interesting points
>They may allow integration of foreign armaments from UAE

if Pakistan had got the Rafale and Mirage-2000 it wouldn't have been affected by sanctions as much as F-16 is.




Destranator said:


> The big disadvantage would be the influence of India as a major customer over the French.


many indians think the Rafale is their বাবার সম্পত্তি because they bought some. Some Pakistanis and Bangladeshis also share this opinion.
Be prepared to read stuff like ''HOW BD AFFORD RAPHALE ? '' only supa pow can afford Raffle or
''China secretly funding Bangladesh AF to acquire RAPHAEL secrets '' from the usual suspects
As for the maintenance facilities , i dont think the gov would use the notoriously bad IAF MRO facilities responsible for their high crash rate. We didnt even send our Migs to overhaul and upgrade to them despite being cheaper and somewhat more advanced than Belarus.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> okay this is my opinion ,
> 
> 1. French will sell their gear to anyone willing and able to pay (even to their own enemies) . They take their weapons industry very seriously (many jobs at stake). Egypt managed to acquire the Scalpe 560km stealth cruise missile despite USA, isntreal whining and not being part of MTCR.
> View attachment 803169
> 
> during the Iran-Iraq war , france supplied Mirage F-1 and exocet from its own inventory
> Sold Pakistan the Agosta Submarine technology with AIP (most advanced at the time of introduction) when the Americans were embargoing them for nuclear programme.
> Russian T-72b3/T-80UK had thermal imaging system from Thales Catherine FC. Not to mention the LHD deal which got cancelled.
> UK Germany don't have this flexibility , you are an arms dealer , act like one.



^^^This. Agreed.




F-6 enthusiast said:


> the downsides:
> Corruption on deals (former french president comically stole money from the Pakistan Agosta deal and put it to his own election campaign which he lost )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price hiking (in conflict scenario)



In reality, the above is a "positive" in the BD context as our chors love dealing with their chor counterparts as it is a win-win for them.
Our govt hates honest suppliers.



F-6 enthusiast said:


> many indians think the Rafale is their বাবার সম্পত্তি because they bought some. Some Pakistanis and Bangladeshis also share this opinion.
> Be prepared to read stuff like ''HOW BD AFFORD RAPHALE ? '' only supa pow can afford Raffle or
> ''China secretly funding Bangladesh AF to acquire RAPHAEL secrets '' from the usual suspects
> As for the maintenance facilities , i dont think the gov would use the notoriously bad IAF MRO facilities responsible for their high crash rate. We didnt even send our Migs to overhaul and upgrade to them despite being cheaper and somewhat more advanced than Belarus.



It is not about the moron Indian commoners who think such things but about the leverage of India over Dassault. Mind you, the Indian MMRCA program is not complete yet.
They are still dangling the 100+ MMRCA order over the noses of the French. If this drags on until a not-so-India-friendly admin takes charge in BD, India might arm twist the French into stopping supplies to BD. The French care about money; They might choose not to geopardise a deal worth tens of billions for keeping a nickel and dime customer like BD.

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## Destranator

Here is a new, sanction resistant combo worth exploring for BAF:
Rafale + J-10C.

This combo will be a maintenance nightmare and makes no technological sense. The benefits are purely geopolitical.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Here is a new, sanction resistant combo worth exploring for BAF:
> Rafale + J-10C.
> 
> This combo will be a maintenance nightmare and makes no technological sense. The benefits are purely geopolitical.


on the other side of the coin 

it makes sense because Rafale can be customised to integrate J-10c and chinese air defence system. similar to how the IAF rafale integrated with S-400


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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Here is a new, sanction resistant combo worth exploring for BAF:
> Rafale + J-10C.
> 
> This combo will be a maintenance nightmare and makes no technological sense. The benefits are purely geopolitical.



Most likely scenario.

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## mb444

Spoke to a BN serving officer.

There are positive and negatives.

EFT is the preferred choice of BAF, F16 is the preferred choice of BA. It is crazy that BA should have any say but there we are with BD inter forces politics.

The chinese have put a spanner in the works regarding J10. They are uncomfortable with BDs western tilt but this issue seems to be a surmountable issue, except....

BN focus was to develop utilising chinese hardware but there is massive pressure to westernise again from BA. This has slowed things significantly.

Turkish hardware is coming with US backing it heavily but there is great pressure to buy US hardware. However their offering is underpowered and does not fit in with BDs need.

In the next couple of years BA will get massive ingestion of cash to upgrade. 

According to him BA has taken descision to develop a fully network centric SAM systems with indeginious capability. There is also full plan for near earth surveillance, communication and comand and control satellites to be bought from canadians. BD engineers and communication experts have been receiving training and working on this for the last three years. Although he did not tell me much he indicated one of them is already up curtesy of US following the rohingya debacle. Goes someway to explain the purchase of multiple rader systems. But in my mind so we can monitor stuff, but we do not have much to counter offensive actions against us or have the firepower to take the fight to the enemy.

Completely unclear how/if these can be integrated with turkish/chinese stuff we are buying but presumably US/European hardware is on its way. One hopes all turkish systems will be compatible. If this transpires I think chinese hardware purchase will dramatically reduce, ie J10 maybe out of the picture.

Expect total paralysis for a few years for BN and BAF as BA monipolises the available funds.

My 2 cents F16s are good obviously but how many can we afford. If J10 is ruled out I do not see how we achive the quantities with a high/low mix. US gordian knot is likely to be placed on BD. We need to take some bold descisions to possibly avoid it. We can not alienate either the west or china. Subtle strategy is the order of the day but I fear BD probably have to just accept that we will have some incompatible hardware in our armed forces. We will simply have to make it work cause we do not have internal capacity to develop these systems.

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## Avicenna

mb444 said:


> Spoke to a BN serving officer.
> 
> There are positive and negatives.
> 
> EFT is the preferred choice of BAF, F16 is the preferred choice of BA. It is crazy that BA should have any say but there we are with BD inter forces politics.
> 
> The chinese have put a spanner in the works regarding J10. They are uncomfortable with BDs western tilt but this issue seems to be a surmountable issue, except....
> 
> BN focus was to develop utilising chinese hardware but there is massive pressure to westernise again from BA. This has slowed things significantly.
> 
> Turkish hardware is coming with US backing it heavily but there is great pressure to buy US hardware. However their offering is underpowered and does not fit in with BDs need.
> 
> In the next couple of years BA will get massive ingestion of cash to upgrade.
> 
> According to him BA has taken descision to develop a fully network centric SAM systems with indeginious capability. There is also full plan for near earth surveillance, communication and comand and control satellites to be bought from canadians. BD engineers and communication experts have been receiving training and working on this for the last three years. Although he did not tell me much he indicated one of them is already up curtesy of US following the rohingya debacle. Goes someway to explain the purchase of multiple rader systems. But in my mind so we can monitor stuff, but we do not have much to counter offensive actions against us or have the firepower to take the fight to the enemy.
> 
> Completely unclear how/if these can be integrated with turkish/chinese stuff we are buying but presumably US/European hardware is on its way. One hopes all turkish systems will be compatible. If this transpires I think chinese hardware purchase will dramatically reduce, ie J10 maybe out of the picture.
> 
> Expect total paralysis for a few years for BN and BAF as BA monipolises the available funds.
> 
> My 2 cents F16s are good obviously but how many can we afford. If J10 is ruled out I do not see how we achive the quantities with a high/low mix. US gordian knot is likely to be placed on BD. We need to take some bold descisions to possibly avoid it. We can not alienate either the west or china. Subtle strategy is the order of the day but I fear BD probably have to just accept that we will have some incompatible hardware in our armed forces. We will simply have to make it work cause we do not have internal capacity to develop these systems.



" The chinese have put a spanner in the works regarding J10. They are uncomfortable with BDs western tilt but this issue seems to be a surmountable issue, except.... "

What do you mean by that sentence?


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## bluesky

alphapak said:


> BAF needs both Gripens and J10's but *BAF reminds me of a 18 year old* who just passed his driving test
> and wants to buy a Ferrari as his first Car.😀


Your line of criticism is quite weird. Please stick to logic.


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## Avicenna

Unrelated to BAF.

But a nice article about Egypt's decision to buy Rafale and Mig-29M/SU-35 despite having 200+ F-16s.

Illustrates why Bangladesh may have reservations to buy American fighters and why the Rafale may be a better option.









Understanding Egypt’s 54 Rafale and 24 Su-35 Jets Procurement


Egypt increased its 24 Rafale aircraft order with Dassault Aviation to 54 by signing up to buy 30 more jets in May 2021; In addition, it is in the middle of procuring 24 Su-35 jets from Russia. The Rafale fleet will bolster the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) with attack capabilities and reduce...




www.defenseworld.net

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

mb444 said:


> According to him BA has taken descision to develop a fully network centric SAM systems with indeginious capability


SAM development is one of the most difficult things in missile technology. They should start with basic ballistic missiles which is quite easy.


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## mb444

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> SAM development is one of the most difficult things in missile technology. They should start with basic ballistic missiles which is quite easy.




That is where they are starting.... but the intention is to have a comprehensive system.

In absence of an effective BAF this is the only option left to us.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> " The chinese have put a spanner in the works regarding J10. They are uncomfortable with BDs western tilt but this issue seems to be a surmountable issue, except.... "
> 
> What do you mean by that sentence?




BD is being pushed to the quad. BD will be unable to resist this pressure as China can not replace western trade.

But being part of quad is directly against our strategic interest.

BD and China interest convergence is permanent..... it can adapt to temporary issues such as Rohingya or the Quad. Both sides will be pragmatic and keep alive long term interest.

If BD wants J10 at the end of the day Chinese will sell it because it provides a platform that would be purely pointed at india. We wont be able to link to potential F16s and the weapons packages will be different. We will simply have to accept that. The same would be for potential subs if we buy chinese.

BD should go full western militarily and begin indeginious production. Alongside tightly embrace china economically and position ourselves ambiguously to maintain maximum operational freedom for as long as possible. Ultimately a choice would need to be made...hopefully 20 years down the line when the world has become multipolar. BD will come out as a middle power.... it needs to time it for maximum benefit.

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## bluesky

Avicenna said:


> Unrelated to BAF.
> 
> But a nice article about Egypt's decision to buy Rafale and Mig-29M/SU-35 despite having 200+ F-16s.
> 
> Illustrates why Bangladesh may have reservations to buy American fighters and why the Rafale may be a better option.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understanding Egypt’s 54 Rafale and 24 Su-35 Jets Procurement
> 
> 
> Egypt increased its 24 Rafale aircraft order with Dassault Aviation to 54 by signing up to buy 30 more jets in May 2021; In addition, it is in the middle of procuring 24 Su-35 jets from Russia. The Rafale fleet will bolster the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) with attack capabilities and reduce...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseworld.net


The reason why a country diversifies its source of military procurement is basically the thought of not dep[ending on one single source. Maintaining a good diplomatic relationship may be another reason.


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## PoondolotoPandalum

Assuming it's true, and not another "source: trust me, bro" pulled out of arse statement from the all reliable Defseca (sorry for any Defseca people watching), here's my opinion:

Bangladesh should've stuck to the Mi-28s from the very beginning instead of daydreaming about the most expensive attack helicopter ever sold (AH-64E). Mi-28's are a far more cost-effective option for a country like Bangladesh, which happens to also operate Mi-171s that share similar components.

The Mii-28 is an incredibly rugged piece of machinery. There was a famous magazine article of a US pilot's impression of flying the Mi-28 back in the early 1990s (when Russia opened up for these things), forgot the name of the US-based magazine. He said it was the most rugged machine he ever operated, yet it flew more precisely and with more agility than any rotorcraft he have ever flown, of any class. Bear in mind, thanks to its heavy armor and rugged airframe, the Mi-28 weighs about a ton more than a Mi-17 cargo chopper (empty weight). 

The Mi-28 and the apache were originally designed for slightly different styles of fighting. The mi-28 was more of a close-in brawler using its heavy armor (by far the most armored rotorcraft in history) to get close to the troops and provide close air support, using primarily its very powerful shiponov autocannon (much more powerful and accurate than the apache's chain gun) and rocket pods. For anti-tank roles, it was initially equipped with Shturm anti-tank missiles, and then ATAKA, both Soviet-era laser-guided anti-tank missiles. They do the job just fine for the sort of battlefields they envisioned fighting in, namely huge, relatively flat planes of land 

The Apache was more of a dedicated anti-tank vehicle. Because NATO had to face the overwhelming numerical superiority of Soviet armor in the cold war (they still do now). So they placed a higher emphasis on dedicated anti-tank platforms. The Apache initially fired laser-guided hellfires, which are very similar to the ATAKA missiles fired by the Havoc. The Apache however has very thin armor, it's barely more armored than a Blackhawk. It's really not designed to take many hits, at least not as much as the Mi-28. So it relied on picking off enemy tanks at a distance. Its closed air support capability, by getting as close to the troops as possible, is more limited than the Mi-28. 

The Apache-D was the next evolution, with the introduction of the millimetric radar and radar-guided hellfire missiles. That introduced a whole new capability such as all-weather effectiveness (radar waves aren't as affected by weather and low light as laser), as well as locking on and firing at a target that's not within the line of sight. So an apache can hide behind a row of trees with only its radar showing, take a look at the battlefield, identify the most critical threats (it's the advanced computer that does this automatically), and lunch radar-guided missiles at them simultaneously. Arguably the no-1 best feature of the apache weapon system if you ask me. This is something the Russian's did not have until recently, mostly because there wasn't really a need for such capability for the sort of conflicts they envisioned. 

The Apache-E is the final evolution, upgraded engines, new data integration and management systems, improved hellfires, and ability to control UAV/UCAV's. But a lot of that capability, especially the net-centric ones, are pretty much irrelevant for a country like Bangladesh which BARELY has a modern military for it to work in synergy with.

The Mi-28 also evolved a lot throughout the years. It also received a top-mounted radar (N025 or N025E downgraded export model). The ones designed for domestic use only for the Russian armed forces are in my opinion the most capable and overpowered attack helicopter on earth. It's packed to the brim with the sophisticated electronic warfare system fitted to a rotorcraft (I suggest reading up on Russia's EW and ECM capability, it's an area they have a massive body of knowledge on which even exceeds the west). It can also HERMES fire and forget anti-tank missiles with over-the-horizon capability (just like the latest hellfires). And it outranges any hellfire variant by a considerable margin. But sadly, these features are not offered for export. Russia will keep its most advanced technologies to itself.

I'm not sure what the weapon packages are on offer to BD, but I suspect it'll be 80mm rocket pods (we already have them for Mi-171s) and ATAKA ATGM's, or possible AT-15 Khriizantema, which is a very capable dual seeker ATGM with a humongous warhead. 

Both helicopters possess much more capability than what the Bangladesh army/airforce can be expected to extract for them, but the Mi-28 is SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper. People also need to realize the nature of US defense companies like Boeing and their subcontractors to understand just how bloated the cost of their equipment is. Just cuz they are much more expensive than the equivalent Russian or even European hardware doesn't make them better necessarily. Russian gear is cheap bc low labor costs, full technological autonomy (they don't rely on technology or parts from other countries as US companies), and not having such a complex internationally spanning supply chain as US companies.

Also bear in mind Apache's are notorious hanger queens. They need a lot of pampering and care to get them running in tip-top conditions. I know people say Russian choppers crash blah blah blah, but more Land Cruisers break down than Range Rovers, despite being a million times more reliable. Simply because they're deployed more and see the roughest actions. Even the US admitted in Afghanistan, where Mi-17s conduct missions initially set for the likes of their Blackhawks and chinooks.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> They are still dangling the 100+ MMRCA order over the noses of the French. If this drags on until a not-so-India-friendly admin takes charge in BD, India might arm twist the French into stopping supplies to BD. The French care about money; They might choose not to geopardise a deal worth tens of billions for keeping a nickel and dime customer like BD.


Agreed. Also should restrict ''co-operation'' to just shoujonno shakkhat.
I dont want want BAF to pick up any bad habits (and their notoriously bad Military MRO facilities that are partly responsible for this)


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## Avicenna

Bangladesh Bank asked to transfer foreign exchange reserve from US soon


https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/economy/bangladesh-bank-asked-to-transfer-foreign-exchange-reserve-from-us-soon-1640600452 Bangladesh Bank asked to transfer foreign exchange reserve from US soon FE ONLINE REPORT | Published: December 27, 2021 16:20:53 | Updated: December 27, 2021 23:52:07...



defence.pk





I dunno what's going on.

But it looks like Rafale and J-10 it is.

Wow.

If its gonna be J-10, then lets get on with it.

No need to delay.

Edit:





__





Dhaka agrees to Washington's military aid agreement


A State Department official said, "The administration led by President Joe Biden has proposed agreements with various countries, including Bangladesh, to ensure future grants." This is not an agreement for country-specific or Bangladesh alone. Bangladesh agrees to US military aid agreement...



defence.pk





WTF is going on?

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Agreed. Also should restrict ''co-operation'' to just shoujonno shakkhat.
> I dont want want BAF to pick up any bad habits (and their notoriously bad Military MRO facilities that are partly responsible for this)
> View attachment 803779


Mind you IAF logs a lot of flying hours on all types of aircraft - too much for their maintenance to keep up. The level of operational readiness IAF aims to maintain is too much for the existing fleet which is why they keep screaming for more fighter jets.
We are not in a position to criticise as BAF is completely untested for such operating environments and very likely crashes more per flying hour than IAF.
The flying hours per pilot is so poor that many BAF pilots quit out of frustration. You often see Wing Commanders fly Yak-130's due to lack of fighter jets.
Despite the crashes, the IAF pilots are a lot more combat ready than BAF pilots as they log many times more flying hours.
I know it is fun to ride the India bashing band wagon but we should be objective.

PAF is by far is the best air force in the region.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> I dunno what's going on.
> 
> But it looks like Rafale and J-10 it is.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> If its gonna be J-10, then lets get on with it.
> 
> No need to delay.



That would be very unbecoming of BAF.
Brace for prolonged thumbtwiddle on determining F-7 replacements.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Mind you IAF logs a lot of flying hours on all types of aircraft - too much for their maintenance to keep up. The level of operational readiness IAF aims to maintain is too much for the existing fleet which is why they keep screaming for more fighter jets.
> We are not in a position to criticise as BAF is completely untested for such operating environments and very likely crashes more per flying hour than IAF.
> The flying hours per pilot is so poor that many BAF pilots quit out of frustration. You often see Wing Commanders fly Yak-130's due to lack of fighter jets.
> Despite the crashes, the IAF pilots are a lot more combat ready than BAF pilots as they log many times more flying hours.
> I know it is fun to ride the India bashing band wagon but we should be objective.
> 
> PAF is by far is the best air force in the region.



I agree with the last sentence, PAF actually has their stuff together as far as operational and maintenance standards.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Brace for prolonged thumbtwiddle on determining F-7 replacements.


at this point i would take even the Mig-35 the situation is THAT bad wrt to fighters.

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> at this point i would take even the Mig-35 the situation is THAT bad wrt to fighters.



No thanks.

That would be a TOTAL waste.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> No thanks.
> 
> That would be a TOTAL waste.

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## F-6 enthusiast

the EAF combo @Avicenna

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> the EAF combo @Avicenna
> 
> View attachment 804355



There is ZERO geopolitical advantage to source critical systems from Russia.

Mi-28 I would say is non-critical.

MRCA or MMRCA IS critical.

Russia neither helps you against India or Myanmar.

At least with China (J-10), you can counter India.

And with the West (France/UK/US) you can counter Myanmar.

With Russia, doesn't help you against either Russia or Myanmar.

Rafale and J-10C is completely reasonable.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> There is ZERO geopolitical advantage to source critical systems from Russia.
> 
> Mi-28 I would say is non-critical.
> 
> MRCA or MMRCA IS critical.
> 
> Russia neither helps you against India or Myanmar.
> 
> At least with China (J-10), you can counter India.
> 
> And with the West (France/UK/US) you can counter Myanmar.
> 
> With Russia, doesn't help you against either Russia or Myanmar.
> 
> Rafale and J-10C is completely reasonable.


Mig-35 is better than whatever we have now. prepare to wait for ages for whatever F-7 replacement they choose (if any) BD Civilian and military leadership is putting national security at risk.

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## bluesky

Destranator said:


> Brace for prolonged thumbtwiddle on determining F-7 replacements.


So, in your opinion, BAF wants not to increase its fleet but wants to replace the F-7s which are newer than PAF's F-7PG and IAF's Mig-21, the predecessor of F-7. 

I have never read any BAF statement like that to support your opinion. Did I miss something? Please give me the link.


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## Destranator

bluesky said:


> So, in your opinion, BAF wants not to increase its fleet but wants to replace the F-7s which are newer than PAF's F-7PG and IAF's Mig-21, the predecessor of F-7.
> 
> I have never read any BAF statement like that to support your opinion. Did I miss something? Please give me the link.


You are fogetting F-7MB's - been in service since 1989. You also need to plan ahead on eventually replacing BG's and then BGI's as it takes time to manufacture and deliver aircraft. All F-7's are third generation junks.

Expansion of fleet is a separate (nonetheless necessary) exercise.

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## bluesky

Destranator said:


> You are fogetting F-7MB's - been in service since 1989. You also need to plan ahead on eventually replacing BG's and then BGI's as it takes time to manufacture and deliver aircraft. All F-7's are third generation junks.
> 
> Expansion of fleet is a separate (nonetheless necessary) exercise.


Not forgetting, but your assertion of discontinuing also other expensive F-7 planes is too early. Say the same 10 years after the new MRCAs are inducted. 

However, not a single plane so many years after the induction of F-7BG and you are so ready to send them to the junkyard.

PAF and IAF guys will be smiling at this thought. After all, BD is a $500 billion GDP by BAL propaganda!!


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## Destranator

bluesky said:


> Not forgetting, but your assertion of discontinuing also other expensive F-7 planes is too early. Say the same 10 years after the new MRCAs are inducted.
> 
> However, not a single plane so many years after the induction of F-7BG and you are so ready to send them to the junkyard.
> 
> PAF and IAF guys will be smiling at this thought. After all, BD is a $500 billion GDP by BAL propaganda!!


As I said:
1. Replacement will be gradual
2. It takes years to manufacture new aircraft

Don't worry, BAF will thumbtwiddle long enough for half the BG's to fall off the sky.


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## F-6 enthusiast

BUY SOMETHING ! ANYTHING !

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## bluesky

Destranator said:


> As I said:
> 1. Replacement will be gradual
> 2. It takes years to manufacture new aircraft
> 
> Don't worry, BAF will thumbtwiddle long enough for half the BG's to fall off the sky.


By the way, answer me two questions:

1) When BAF will induct new planes?
2) And where does the BAF want to keep the new planes? I do not see any news of the new BAF airfields. 

It means there will be no new purchasing of MRCAs.


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## Destranator

bluesky said:


> By the way, answer me two questions:
> 
> 1) When BAF will induct new planes?
> 2) And where does the BAF want to keep the new planes? I do not see any news of the new BAF airfields.
> 
> It means there will be no new purchasing of MRCAs.


1. Why do you think I keep referring to "thumbtwiddling" of BAF?

2. I support creation of many airfields for redundancy but this is not stopping fighter procurement as there is plenty of room in existing airfields. The problem is spinelessness of BAF and politicians.


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## F-6 enthusiast

*Govt wants to build air force like developed countries: PM Hasina*
BSS
Dhaka
Published: 30 Dec 2021, 09:01

Prime minister Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday expressed her government's keen interest to make the air force more advanced like the developed countries, saying the ultra-modern fighter planes, air defence radar and missile were already inducted to the force to turn the desire into reality.
*"We have already incorporated ultra-modern fighter planes, air defence radar, missile and necessary equipment to Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) alongside setting up new ghatis (wings), units and training institute ---we want to build the air force like developed countries," she said.*
The prime minister said this while addressing as the chief guest the "President Parade (Winter)-2021" of the Bangladesh Air Force Academy, joining virtually from Ganobhaban her official residence
The BAF is going to get various modern planes, high-performance air defence radar, simulator, ATS simulator, laser guided bomb and anti-ship missile which will multiply its capacity, she said.
The prime minister called upon the fresh cadets to be prepared in such a way keeping in mind the Father of the Nation's ideals as they can play an active role in fulfilling the country's expectations by serving the nation.
Advertisement

Advertisement

She hoped that the fresher would march the force ahead by using their talent, professionalism and patriotism from the current position that was achieved by your predecessors' far-sightedness, professionalism and hard work.
The prime minister greeted the new cadets as they are going to join the air force upon completion of their three years training.
She asked the cadets to always love the country and its people and perform the responsibilities bestowed on them with sincerity and honesty.
"Protect the independence and sovereignty of the country that were shouldered upon you after taking the oath," she added.
Highlighting her government's various measures taken for the overall development of the air force, the premier said they have purchased the fourth generation MIG-29 and C-130 and high performance air protection radar alongside infrastructure development coming to power in 1996 after 21 years.
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Describing the armed forces as the symbol of country's independence and sovereignty, Sheikh Hasina said her government has been implementing the "Forces Goal-2030" to build a developed and professional force.
The "Forces Goal-2030" was formulated in line with the Defence Policy of 1974 adopted by Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, she said.
Sheikh Hasina further said that they have established Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre to ensure safe and affordable management and overhauling of the planes, radars and military equipment.
She said that Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman Aviation and Aerospace University was established to ensure overall development of the air force and make time-worthy the civil aviation sector.
The prime minister said, "InshaAllah, we will once attain ability in building planes, helicopters and fighter planes with the knowledge to be obtained through research from the university."
Her government has always attached priority on conducting research regarding space, she said.














She also said her government has added ultra-modern fly-by-wire, digital cockpit based YAK-130 combat trainer, K-8W Z trainer, L-410 transport trainer, AW-119KX helicopter trainer and various simulators to the air force to ensure a developed and time-befitting flying training for its future generation cadets.
Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan later gave a vote of thanks to the prime minister for joining the programme.
He, on behalf of the premier, earlier handed over the 'Sword of Honour' 'Chief of Air Staff Trophy' 'Commandants Trophy' and other prizes among the best cadets.
--------------------------

*looks like we will be flying those museum pieces for the next century, since we already have ''ultra-modern'' fighters. *

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> *Govt wants to build air force like developed countries: PM Hasina*
> BSS
> Dhaka
> Published: 30 Dec 2021, 09:01
> 
> Prime minister Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday expressed her government's keen interest to make the air force more advanced like the developed countries, saying the ultra-modern fighter planes, air defence radar and missile were already inducted to the force to turn the desire into reality.
> *"We have already incorporated ultra-modern fighter planes, air defence radar, missile and necessary equipment to Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) alongside setting up new ghatis (wings), units and training institute ---we want to build the air force like developed countries," she said.*
> The prime minister said this while addressing as the chief guest the "President Parade (Winter)-2021" of the Bangladesh Air Force Academy, joining virtually from Ganobhaban her official residence
> The BAF is going to get various modern planes, high-performance air defence radar, simulator, ATS simulator, laser guided bomb and anti-ship missile which will multiply its capacity, she said.
> The prime minister called upon the fresh cadets to be prepared in such a way keeping in mind the Father of the Nation's ideals as they can play an active role in fulfilling the country's expectations by serving the nation.
> Advertisement
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> She hoped that the fresher would march the force ahead by using their talent, professionalism and patriotism from the current position that was achieved by your predecessors' far-sightedness, professionalism and hard work.
> The prime minister greeted the new cadets as they are going to join the air force upon completion of their three years training.
> She asked the cadets to always love the country and its people and perform the responsibilities bestowed on them with sincerity and honesty.
> "Protect the independence and sovereignty of the country that were shouldered upon you after taking the oath," she added.
> Highlighting her government's various measures taken for the overall development of the air force, the premier said they have purchased the fourth generation MIG-29 and C-130 and high performance air protection radar alongside infrastructure development coming to power in 1996 after 21 years.
> Advertisement
> 
> Describing the armed forces as the symbol of country's independence and sovereignty, Sheikh Hasina said her government has been implementing the "Forces Goal-2030" to build a developed and professional force.
> The "Forces Goal-2030" was formulated in line with the Defence Policy of 1974 adopted by Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, she said.
> Sheikh Hasina further said that they have established Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre to ensure safe and affordable management and overhauling of the planes, radars and military equipment.
> She said that Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman Aviation and Aerospace University was established to ensure overall development of the air force and make time-worthy the civil aviation sector.
> The prime minister said, "InshaAllah, we will once attain ability in building planes, helicopters and fighter planes with the knowledge to be obtained through research from the university."
> Her government has always attached priority on conducting research regarding space, she said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She also said her government has added ultra-modern fly-by-wire, digital cockpit based YAK-130 combat trainer, K-8W Z trainer, L-410 transport trainer, AW-119KX helicopter trainer and various simulators to the air force to ensure a developed and time-befitting flying training for its future generation cadets.
> Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan later gave a vote of thanks to the prime minister for joining the programme.
> He, on behalf of the premier, earlier handed over the 'Sword of Honour' 'Chief of Air Staff Trophy' 'Commandants Trophy' and other prizes among the best cadets.
> --------------------------
> 
> *looks like we will be flying those museum pieces for the next century, since we already have ''ultra-modern'' fighters. *









BAF and Government of Bangladesh.

Have some shame.






Your addition.

Note the name even.

And then note below.






This is a REAL air force.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> *Govt wants to build air force like developed countries: PM Hasina*


Yes, our air force will soon rival Monaco's.

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## F-6 enthusiast

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Govt wants to build air force like developed countries


spend some money then !


Avicenna said:


> BAF and Government of Bangladesh.


its the civilian leadership which is not willing to allocate funds. This isnt BAF's fault

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Yes, our air force will soon rival Monaco's.


this isnt even funny anymore
PM hopes Bangladesh will produce aircraft, helicopters some day | The Daily Star
> spend the next ~20 years developing or license manufacturing (need to setup industrial base first which will take time).
> limited production run of said aircraft * which isnt enough to justify the license manufacture and or research cost 
> no *export success because all the big boys have been making jets for well over a century
> Decades old design no longer relevant in modern warfare (i am certain they will not pick a design which is futureproof)
> money ? in some canadian bank
> national security ? hotel trivago , i caqnt fing do this anymore

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> spend some money then !
> 
> its the civilian leadership which is not willing to allocate funds. This isnt BAF's fault


It is not about money. In the absence of a dedicated Defence Minister and Joint Chief, their is no one other than BAF leadership who can emphasise on the criticality of credible air power for overall defence. Our ministers and bureaucrats do not understand concepts such as BVR, Network Centric Warfare, AESA, etc. All they see is sexy looking Fulcrums carry out high G manoeuvres and assume our air force is "good enough".

It is the job of BAF to convince the govt by selecting a fighter jet which check all boxes and presenting a comprehensive threat asessment to the cabinet and bureaucracy to make them realise the urgency and deficiencies. The government has many many different spending priorities. As they don't get poked enough by BAF, they assume BAF is doing just fine with the current rate of progress. Their is no public pressure either as most Bangladeshis have zero clue about air defence.

The other two services do their part just fine. Personnel of these two services also acknowledge what a joke BAF is as an organisation.

Where do you think Hasina gets her fluffy talking points about manufacturing fighters and helicopters without any clear road map? These are being fed by BAF.
If BAF faggots had any shame, you would see their leaders resign en masse but no. They just love the perks. BAF's Marshals are the most undeserving of their ranks on this planet.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> It is not about money. In the absence of a dedicated Defence Minister and Joint Chief, their is no one other than BAF leadership who can emphasise on the criticality of credible air power for overall defence. Our ministers and bureaucrats do not understand concepts such as BVR, Network Centric Warfare, AESA, etc. All they see is sexy looking Fulcrums carry out high G manoeuvres and assume our air force is "good enough".
> 
> It is the job of BAF to convince the govt by selecting a fighter jet which check all boxes and presenting a comprehensive threat asessment to the cabinet and bureaucracy to make them realise the urgency and deficiencies. The government has many many different spending priorities. As they don't get poked enough by BAF, they assume BAF is doing just fine with the current rate of progress. Their is no public pressure either as most Bangladeshis have zero clue about air defence.
> 
> The other two services do their part just fine. Personnel of these two services also acknowledge what a joke BAF is as an organisation.
> 
> Where do you think Hasina gets her fluffy talking points about manufacturing fighters and helicopters without any clear road map? These are being fed by BAF.
> If BAF faggots had any shame, you would see their leaders resign en masse but no. They just love the perks. BAF's Marshals are the most undeserving of their ranks on this planet.


Evrything can be solved with enough money. BAF modernisation will cost more than the other two branches. The civilians dont want to spend much (if any) on new stuff for BAF. Hence all the (apparent) inertia and decision paralysis. BAF can finalise everything down to the menu that the BAF airmen will have (as part of MRCA package) on foreign airbase but it doesn't make any difference if the gov doesn't put its money where its mouth is.
Remember all of this is not public , so we are all here speculating. maybe the BAF had selected everything and went with an informal proposal but it was shot down. 
So maybe it would have made things easier if they made some things public (why so tight lipped?)

Also look at the time wasted and national security jeopardised and the result.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Evrything can be solved with enough money. BAF modernisation will cost more than the other two branches. The civilians dont want to spend much (if any) on new stuff for BAF. Hence all the (apparent) inertia and decision paralysis. BAF can finalise everything down to the menu that the BAF airmen will have (as part of MRCA package) on foreign airbase but it doesn't make any difference if the gov doesn't put its money where its mouth is.
> Remember all of this is not public , so we are all here speculating. maybe the BAF had selected everything and went with an informal proposal but it was shot down.
> So maybe it would have made things easier if they made some things public (why so tight lipped?)
> 
> Also look at the time wasted and national security jeopardised and the result.


Agree except that I am not "speculating" about BAF's organisational issues and lacklustre efforts to convince the govt re: MRCA's. Unfortunately this is not something I can prove with a link.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> It is not about money. In the absence of a dedicated Defence Minister and Joint Chief, their is no one other than BAF leadership who can emphasise on the criticality of credible air power for overall defence. Our ministers and bureaucrats do not understand concepts such as BVR, Network Centric Warfare, AESA, etc. All they see is sexy looking Fulcrums carry out high G manoeuvres and assume our air force is "good enough".
> 
> It is the job of BAF to convince the govt by selecting a fighter jet which check all boxes and presenting a comprehensive threat asessment to the cabinet and bureaucracy to make them realise the urgency and deficiencies. The government has many many different spending priorities. As they don't get poked enough by BAF, they assume BAF is doing just fine with the current rate of progress. Their is no public pressure either as most Bangladeshis have zero clue about air defence.
> 
> The other two services do their part just fine. Personnel of these two services also acknowledge what a joke BAF is as an organisation.
> 
> Where do you think Hasina gets her fluffy talking points about manufacturing fighters and helicopters without any clear road map? These are being fed by BAF.
> If BAF faggots had any shame, you would see their leaders resign en masse but no. They just love the perks. BAF's Marshals are the most undeserving of their ranks on this planet.



You need a dedicated defense minister.

Someone who understands.

Not a grandma who gifts fish to a potential adversary's leader.

You probably have at present BAF leadership who are the closest thing to being educated advisers to Hasina who ultimately makes the decisions.

And that same BAF leadership is the result of decades of neglect.

What can you really expect?

It's a DAMN shame for Bangladesh and the young people who are entering/considering entering the BAF.

So much potential.

WASTED.

@Destranator's post was fantastic.

Also, I dunno if any of you see DEFSECA's facebook page.

It's sort of infuriating to see the the false confidence that comes from that place.

I was particularly bothered by the post about Pakistan inducting J-10.













If this is reflective of the state of mind of a "supposed" leader in the Bangladesh Defense Analysis community (childishness and pettiness as well as misplaced confidence), then we are truly fooked as a nation.

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## bluesky

Destranator said:


> I support creation of many airfields for redundancy but this is not stopping fighter procurement as there is plenty of room in existing airfields. The problem is spinelessness of BAF and politicians.


Please forget about the politicians. but when you place all your fighter plane assets on the open tarmacs, is it not an idea of inviting the enemy country to hit the tarmacs with missiles?

MM has SY-400 ballistic missiles supplied by its great friend China. Its range is 500 km. These missiles will fall like rains on the flat tarmacs and destroy all the planes when the pilots would be sleeping at night during war time.

So, tell something to the BAF on how to protect its land-based assets, especially the planes that may include Rafael as well.

Our intelligent Defence Minister in the picture with cap on the head. We should be proud of her as the most well-qualified DM.

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## ghost250

bluesky said:


> Please forget about the politicians. but when you place all your fighter plane assets on the open tarmacs, is it not an idea of inviting the enemy country to hit the tarmacs with missiles?
> 
> *MM has SY-400 ballistic missiles supplied by its great friend China. Its range is 500 km.* These missiles will fall like rains on the flat tarmacs and destroy all the planes when the pilots would be sleeping at night during war time.
> 
> So, tell something to the BAF on how to protect its land-based assets, especially the planes that may include Rafael as well.
> 
> Our intelligent Defence Minister in the picture with cap on the head. We should be proud of her as the most well-qualified DM.
> 
> View attachment 804747


myanmar doesnt have sy-400 ballistic missiles yet ...!! "yet".... nd the range isnt 500 km...its much lesser thn ur mentioned nmbr !!


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## bluesky

ghost250 said:


> myanmar doesnt have sy-400 ballistic missiles yet ...!! "yet".... nd the range isnt 500 km...its much lesser thn ur mentioned nmbr !!











Myanmar parades Chinese-made SY-400 short-range ballistic missiles


Recently, it was reported that Myanmar received the first batch of SY-400 (also called “DF-12A”) short-range ballistic missile system from China, thus becoming the second user of the SY-400 guided rocket artillery (or referred to as SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile outside China). It...




www.globaldefensecorp.com

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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> You need a dedicated defense minister.
> 
> Someone who understands.
> 
> Not a grandma who gifts fish to a potential adversary's leader.
> 
> You probably have at present BAF leadership who are the closest thing to being educated advisers to Hasina who ultimately makes the decisions.
> 
> And that same BAF leadership is the result of decades of neglect.
> 
> What can you really expect?
> 
> It's a DAMN shame for Bangladesh and the young people who are entering/considering entering the BAF.
> 
> So much potential.
> 
> WASTED.
> 
> @Destranator's post was fantastic.
> 
> Also, I dunno if any of you see DEFSECA's facebook page.
> 
> It's sort of infuriating to see the the false confidence that comes from that place.
> 
> I was particularly bothered by the post about Pakistan inducting J-10.
> 
> View attachment 804744
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 804745
> 
> 
> If this is reflective of the state of mind of a "supposed" leader in the Bangladesh Defense Analysis community (childishness and pettiness as well as misplaced confidence), then we are truly fooked as a nation.


common man we Pakistanis are so poor unlike rich countries like BD -IND .  west /russia /EU no one sale us anything now .

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## ghost250

bluesky said:


> Myanmar parades Chinese-made SY-400 short-range ballistic missiles
> 
> 
> Recently, it was reported that Myanmar received the first batch of SY-400 (also called “DF-12A”) short-range ballistic missile system from China, thus becoming the second user of the SY-400 guided rocket artillery (or referred to as SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile outside China). It...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaldefensecorp.com


that globaldefensecorp is the worst page for defense related news vai..its based on lies and bashing of bangladeshi armed forces!!

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## bluesky

ghost250 said:


> that globaldefensecorp is the worst page for defense related news vai..its based on lies and bashing of bangladeshi armed forces!!


It seems that none other but only you are the most knowledgeable source of information for defense matters. Next timer I will search your Vlogs.

By the way, do you think MM cannot procure SAS because it does not have it now? So, should BAF not keep its planes hidden from being hit by the MM SAS? This was my question and you responded with "No, MM has no SAS". As if it cannot acquire them in the future.


----------



## ghost250

bluesky said:


> It seems that none other but only you are the most knowledgeable source of information for defense matters. Next timer I will search your Vlogs.
> 
> By the way, do you think MM cannot procure SAS because it does not have it now? So, should BAF not keep its planes hidden from being hit by the MM SAS? This was my question and you responded with "No, MM has no SAS". As if it cannot acquire them in the future.


there is a reason that u have problems with every poster in this subsection !! read my previous post again..I said "yet"...did I say they will never have this system? dui line beshi bujhen kn shob shmy?

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## bdslph

Avicenna said:


> You need a dedicated defense minister.
> 
> Someone who understands.
> 
> Not a grandma who gifts fish to a potential adversary's leader.
> 
> You probably have at present BAF leadership who are the closest thing to being educated advisers to Hasina who ultimately makes the decisions.
> 
> And that same BAF leadership is the result of decades of neglect.
> 
> What can you really expect?
> 
> It's a DAMN shame for Bangladesh and the young people who are entering/considering entering the BAF.
> 
> So much potential.
> 
> WASTED.
> 
> @Destranator's post was fantastic.
> 
> Also, I dunno if any of you see DEFSECA's facebook page.
> 
> It's sort of infuriating to see the the false confidence that comes from that place.
> 
> I was particularly bothered by the post about Pakistan inducting J-10.
> 
> View attachment 804744
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 804745
> 
> 
> If this is reflective of the state of mind of a "supposed" leader in the Bangladesh Defense Analysis community (childishness and pettiness as well as misplaced confidence), then we are truly fooked as a nation.




A VERY MUCH FUNNY POST  

JF17 is battle proven 
J10C and Jf17 are both excellent ac....


F-6 enthusiast said:


> *Govt wants to build air force like developed countries: PM Hasina*
> BSS
> Dhaka
> Published: 30 Dec 2021, 09:01
> 
> Prime minister Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday expressed her government's keen interest to make the air force more advanced like the developed countries, saying the ultra-modern fighter planes, air defence radar and missile were already inducted to the force to turn the desire into reality.
> *"We have already incorporated ultra-modern fighter planes, air defence radar, missile and necessary equipment to Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) alongside setting up new ghatis (wings), units and training institute ---we want to build the air force like developed countries," she said.*
> The prime minister said this while addressing as the chief guest the "President Parade (Winter)-2021" of the Bangladesh Air Force Academy, joining virtually from Ganobhaban her official residence
> The BAF is going to get various modern planes, high-performance air defence radar, simulator, ATS simulator, laser guided bomb and anti-ship missile which will multiply its capacity, she said.
> The prime minister called upon the fresh cadets to be prepared in such a way keeping in mind the Father of the Nation's ideals as they can play an active role in fulfilling the country's expectations by serving the nation.
> Advertisement
> 
> Advertisement
> 
> She hoped that the fresher would march the force ahead by using their talent, professionalism and patriotism from the current position that was achieved by your predecessors' far-sightedness, professionalism and hard work.
> The prime minister greeted the new cadets as they are going to join the air force upon completion of their three years training.
> She asked the cadets to always love the country and its people and perform the responsibilities bestowed on them with sincerity and honesty.
> "Protect the independence and sovereignty of the country that were shouldered upon you after taking the oath," she added.
> Highlighting her government's various measures taken for the overall development of the air force, the premier said they have purchased the fourth generation MIG-29 and C-130 and high performance air protection radar alongside infrastructure development coming to power in 1996 after 21 years.
> Advertisement
> 
> Describing the armed forces as the symbol of country's independence and sovereignty, Sheikh Hasina said her government has been implementing the "Forces Goal-2030" to build a developed and professional force.
> The "Forces Goal-2030" was formulated in line with the Defence Policy of 1974 adopted by Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, she said.
> Sheikh Hasina further said that they have established Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre to ensure safe and affordable management and overhauling of the planes, radars and military equipment.
> She said that Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman Aviation and Aerospace University was established to ensure overall development of the air force and make time-worthy the civil aviation sector.
> The prime minister said, "InshaAllah, we will once attain ability in building planes, helicopters and fighter planes with the knowledge to be obtained through research from the university."
> Her government has always attached priority on conducting research regarding space, she said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She also said her government has added ultra-modern fly-by-wire, digital cockpit based YAK-130 combat trainer, K-8W Z trainer, L-410 transport trainer, AW-119KX helicopter trainer and various simulators to the air force to ensure a developed and time-befitting flying training for its future generation cadets.
> Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan later gave a vote of thanks to the prime minister for joining the programme.
> He, on behalf of the premier, earlier handed over the 'Sword of Honour' 'Chief of Air Staff Trophy' 'Commandants Trophy' and other prizes among the best cadets.
> --------------------------
> 
> *looks like we will be flying those museum pieces for the next century, since we already have ''ultra-modern'' fighters. *





transport & trainers & helicopter (some camo / body paints are even like clowns in circus)


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## UKBengali

Guys it is 2022 and there is still no contract signed!

I think it is time to start being realistic and now realise that the BAL do not really want BD to be a militarily strong nation that does not get pushed around by even tiny Myanmar. BAF is not really the core of the problem as BAL has full power to dismiss and appoint a new leadership at any time.

At this stage we need to hope that external factors(USA and China) keeps BD sovereignty relatively intact while the BD economy reaches true "middle income" status over the next 10-15 years, with a more educated population who does not think of day to day survival as their primary goal..

The problem is Hasina and she will almost certainly not be around in the 2030s and so with a new generation of leaders and a much stronger economy, BD can finally become a military power commensurate with its economic strength at the time.

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## Indos

We need to wait on the BD Airshow 2022, or is it cancelled ???


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Guys it is 2022 and there is still no contract signed!
> 
> I think it is time to start being realistic and now realise that the BAL do not really want BD to be a militarily strong nation that does not get pushed around by even tiny Myanmar. BAF is not really the core of the problem as BAL has full power to dismiss and appoint a new leadership at any time.
> 
> At this stage we need to hope that external factors(USA and China) keeps BD sovereignty relatively intact while the BD economy reaches true "middle income" status over the next 10-15 years, with a more educated population who does not think of day to day survival as their primary goal..
> 
> The problem is Hasina and she will almost certainly not be around in the 2030s and so with a new generation of leaders and a much stronger economy, BD can finally become a military power commensurate with its economic strength at the time.



Please check my posts circa 2017 in regards to "Forces Goal 2030"

Fookin joke!

Forces Joke 2030!

No fookin way BAF was gonna have 10 squadrons of anything come 2030.

Edder kono lojja shorom nai.

The morons running Bangladesh have their own agendas.

Also, its FOOKIN infuriating to see the misplaced confidence coming from Bangladeshis regarding their nation.

Making underwear can only get you so far bros.

Bangladesh just got b#itch slapped by fookin Burma.

And continues to be run by India.

And NOTHING of significance has been done in half a decade.

And then some have the audacity to belittle Pakistan inducting Chinese J-10.

Bangladeshi leadership and the people that support these impotent muppets should be ashamed.

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## Destranator

Happy New Year BAF!

21+ years since the last time worthy fighter jets were inducted.

Fun facts:

The initial batch of MiG-29 pilots are now all retired with the last one being the previous BAF chief.
Kids born after that event are now upto 21+ years old, some of them are BAF officers.
The number of fighter jets in service has been on the decline over the last 9 years.

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## Avicenna

Thoughts on this video?


----------



## ziaulislam

Avicenna said:


> You need a dedicated defense minister.
> 
> Someone who understands.
> 
> Not a grandma who gifts fish to a potential adversary's leader.
> 
> You probably have at present BAF leadership who are the closest thing to being educated advisers to Hasina who ultimately makes the decisions.
> 
> And that same BAF leadership is the result of decades of neglect.
> 
> What can you really expect?
> 
> It's a DAMN shame for Bangladesh and the young people who are entering/considering entering the BAF.
> 
> So much potential.
> 
> WASTED.
> 
> @Destranator's post was fantastic.
> 
> Also, I dunno if any of you see DEFSECA's facebook page.
> 
> It's sort of infuriating to see the the false confidence that comes from that place.
> 
> I was particularly bothered by the post about Pakistan inducting J-10.
> 
> View attachment 804744
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 804745
> 
> 
> If this is reflective of the state of mind of a "supposed" leader in the Bangladesh Defense Analysis community (childishness and pettiness as well as misplaced confidence), then we are truly fooked as a nation.


Bengladesh has good relatoonship with india
Apart from water issues and migrant issues no big issue
Unless pakistan that has a key kashmir issue which it cannt let go given ideology..
So he is right to this extent

W-r-t russian equipment we all know why PAF doesnt want to induct them..look at su30 flying rate

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## Avicenna

ziaulislam said:


> Bengladesh has good relatoonship with india
> Apart from water issues and migrant issues no big issue
> Unless pakistan that has a key kashmir issue which it cannt let go given ideology..
> So he is right to this extent
> 
> W-r-t russian equipment we all know why PAF doesnt want to induct them..look at su30 flying rate



I understand that Bangladesh has to play nice with India to some extent given geography.

But for all this talk about independence and self determination.

It's a bit ironic, given the heavy influence India has on Bangladesh.

It's just very frustrating to observe the direction Bangladesh has taken knowing what Bangladeshis are capable of.

In regards to BAF, there is NO reason why BAF can not be a formidable air power.

Other than an lack of political will.

The money is there.

The people who can make it happen are there.

It's the politicians who are fooking things up.

This is what is infuriating.

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## ziaulislam

Avicenna said:


> I understand that Bangladesh has to play nice with India to some extent given geography.
> 
> But for all this talk about independence and self determination.
> 
> It's a bit ironic, given the heavy influence India has on Bangladesh.
> 
> It's just very frustrating to observe the direction Bangladesh has taken knowing what Bangladeshis are capable of.
> 
> In regards to BAF, there is NO reason why BAF can not be a formidable air power.
> 
> Other than an lack of political will.
> 
> The money is there.
> 
> The people who can make it happen are there.
> 
> It's the politicians who are fooking things up.
> 
> This is what is infuriating.


Knowing india it would not want bengladesh get airforce or submarines

These are strategic weapons

India was upset even on some older dysfunctional subs

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## Avicenna

First G120TPs delivered to Bangladesh


First G120TPs delivered to Bangladesh Half December 2021, twelve Grob 120TPs basic training aircraft routed to Bangladesh on delivery to the Bangladesh Biman Bahinii (BAF, Banglade...




www.scramble.nl






*First G120TPs delivered to Bangladesh*

Half December 2021, twelve Grob 120TPs basic training aircraft routed to Bangladesh on delivery to the Bangladesh Biman Bahinii (BAF, Bangladesh Air Force) via Iraklíon/Nikos Kazantzakis (Greece) and Aswan/International (Egypt).

The total order is said to be for 24 aircraft and deliveries should be completed in 2022.

In June 2021, Scramble Magazine reported on the deal that was signed by the Chief of Air Staff of the Bangladesh Armed Forces with the German company Grob for acquiring the new training aircraft.

Despite fairly recently acquired PT-6s, this may mean that the end of that type in BAF service is near.

The following G120TPs departed Mindelheim (Germany) on their way to Bangladesh. If you can add details on the construction numbers of the aircraft delivered and their allocated serials we would like to hear this at social@scramble.nl

8 December; D-EZZK, D-EZZL and D-EZZP
9 December; D-EZZH, D-EZZJ and D-EZZG
12 December; D-EZZS, D-EZZR and D-EZZN
13 December; D-EZZU, D-EZZQ and D-EZZW

Let's hope this means something someday.


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## blinder

On DTB a photo made by *Kazi Tanjimul Islam* the Grob 120TP in final colour scheme and serial 1183:









__ https://www.facebook.com/DTB2.O/posts/1026065141304521

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## Bilal9

ziaulislam said:


> Knowing india it would not want bengladesh get airforce or submarines
> 
> These are strategic weapons
> 
> India was upset even on some older dysfunctional subs



I remember some Pajeet was coming here questioning why we need an Air Force? He said India is there to give us "protection".

What do these idiots take us for?

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## Tshering22

Avicenna said:


> Please check my posts circa 2017 in regards to "Forces Goal 2030"
> 
> Fookin joke!
> 
> Forces Joke 2030!
> 
> No fookin way BAF was gonna have 10 squadrons of anything come 2030.
> 
> Edder kono lojja shorom nai.
> 
> The morons running Bangladesh have their own agendas.
> 
> Also, its FOOKIN infuriating to see the misplaced confidence coming from Bangladeshis regarding their nation.
> 
> Making underwear can only get you so far bros.
> 
> Bangladesh just got b#itch slapped by fookin Burma.
> 
> And continues to be run by India.
> 
> And NOTHING of significance has been done in half a decade.
> 
> And then some have the audacity to belittle Pakistan inducting Chinese J-10.
> 
> Bangladeshi leadership and the people that support these impotent muppets should be ashamed.



Just one question: isn't your defense acquisition plan based on a modernization and replacement basis rather than a threat perception? I mean, the ties between our countries are more than positive at this point and Myanmar is too caught up in its own internal conflicts since the junta takeover. 

Would it be pragmatic to push for too much speed at this point? just asking since there is minimal threat to you guys, somewhat like the Netherlands in Europe. They have a humungous economy but a small force that they modernized over time. Soviet fears did factor in their early development (apart from the fact that they were a powerful colonial nation), but today their modernization is chugging along in calm waters.


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## Avicenna

Tshering22 said:


> Just one question: isn't your defense acquisition plan based on a modernization and replacement basis rather than a threat perception? I mean, the ties between our countries are more than positive at this point and Myanmar is too caught up in its own internal conflicts since the junta takeover.
> 
> Would it be pragmatic to push for too much speed at this point? just asking since there is minimal threat to you guys, somewhat like the Netherlands in Europe. They have a humungous economy but a small force that they modernized over time. Soviet fears did factor in their early development (apart from the fact that they were a powerful colonial nation), but today their modernization is chugging along in calm waters.



Sorry for the late reply.

I used to be a peacenik when it came to defense spending for Bangladesh, considering the many other issues the country faces.

However, the reality is the events of 2017 have exposed Bangladesh as a weak nation.

It basically had 1 million people forced upon it because of a false sense of security and a lack of deterrence.

Can you imagine Myanmar to repeat those events if Bangladesh had any semblance of a military capability that it feared.

Similarly, although Bangladesh can NEVER achieve anything close to parity with India in a conventional military sense, a neutered Bangladesh relies on Indian good will.

I can imagine it being uncomfortable for New Delhi, if it had to keep in mind a militarily capable Bangladesh in its war plans. i.e. no more pushover Bangladesh.

Also, Bangladesh under allocates for defense spending as it is so there is room for improvement.

It is shameful for a nation like Bangladesh to have only 6 single seat 4th generation fighters in service.

I actually don't know how anyone in BAF or the BD government can justify such a thing.

So again, there is a lot of room for improvement.

India is NOT a friend no matter how anyone tries to explain it.

And Myanmar is run by a thuggish junta who is a danger to Bangladesh as long as they are in power.

So, yea Bangladesh better get its act together.

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## Avicenna

Nothing to do with BAF.

Just a nice video.

Gorgeous camo on both.

Hornet/SuperHornet would have been nice for BAF.

I wonder how feasible it would be just to buy up the old Kuwaiti legacy Hornets as a stopgap.

And then focus on 5th gen in a decade or so.

At this point grasping at flimsy straws to keep this thread going.

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## Tshering22

Avicenna said:


> Sorry for the late reply.
> 
> I used to be a peacenik when it came to defense spending for Bangladesh, considering the many other issues the country faces.
> 
> However, the reality is the events of 2017 have exposed Bangladesh as a weak nation.
> 
> It basically had 1 million people forced upon it because of a false sense of security and a lack of deterrence.
> 
> Can you imagine Myanmar to repeat those events if Bangladesh had any semblance of a military capability that it feared.
> 
> Similarly, although Bangladesh can NEVER achieve anything close to parity with India in a conventional military sense, a neutered Bangladesh relies on Indian good will.
> 
> I can imagine it being uncomfortable for New Delhi, if it had to keep in mind a militarily capable Bangladesh in its war plans. i.e. no more pushover Bangladesh.
> 
> Also, Bangladesh under allocates for defense spending as it is so there is room for improvement.
> 
> It is shameful for a nation like Bangladesh to have only 6 single seat 4th generation fighters in service.
> 
> I actually don't know how anyone in BAF or the BD government can justify such a thing.
> 
> So again, there is a lot of room for improvement.
> 
> India is NOT a friend no matter how anyone tries to explain it.
> 
> And Myanmar is run by a thuggish junta who is a danger to Bangladesh as long as they are in power.
> 
> So, yea Bangladesh better get its act together.



We are not hostile to each other either. Sure there are a few issues that prevail but that happens between almost every neighbour. There are complications between us but they don't have to be. 

As for Myanmar, Lady Luck has smiled upon your country since they are practically ineffective on their borders. 

You need to be pragmatic with your defence budget; matching us combat jet to jet would be as pointless as we trying to match the USAF. While it is your money and your country to do whatever you want, a more effective strategy would be to focus on augmenting the light fighter, aerial patrol and attack helicopter fleet. To do that, you will have to increase your defence budget by a lot more. 

Targeting us and arming will only push you behind at this point; we are not your adversaries.


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## Avicenna

Tshering22 said:


> We are not hostile to each other either. Sure there are a few issues that prevail but that happens between almost every neighbour. There are complications between us but they don't have to be.
> 
> As for Myanmar, Lady Luck has smiled upon your country since they are practically ineffective on their borders.
> 
> You need to be pragmatic with your defence budget; matching us combat jet to jet would be as pointless as we trying to match the USAF. While it is your money and your country to do whatever you want, a more effective strategy would be to focus on augmenting the light fighter, aerial patrol and attack helicopter fleet. To do that, you will have to increase your defence budget by a lot more.
> 
> Targeting us and arming will only push you behind at this point; we are not your adversaries.



I think every sovereign nation needs to maximize its ability to defend itself.

Of course there are smaller nations bordering more powerful ones but that does not mean they don't equip themselves to the best of their ability.

i.e. Finland and Russia

i.e. Sweden and Russia

i.e. Pakistan and India

i.e. Israel and the whole Middle East

Bangladesh is in a much better financial position to equip itself better.

If nothing else than to give you guys something to think about before you take advantage of us.

A militarily capable Pakistan and Bangladesh, would not be a welcome situation for you.

Although, there can never be outright animosity between India and Bangladesh due to geography, it should not lull BD into a false sense of complacency.

As for Myanmar, the damage has already been done.

Bangladesh now has to deal with a 1,000,000 person problem that could have been possibly avoided if she had a more capable armed forces and the will to stand up for itself.

But who is to say, these guys from the East may not do more to hurt BD interests in the future.

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## Tshering22

Avicenna said:


> I think every sovereign nation needs to maximize its ability to defend itself.
> 
> Of course there are smaller nations bordering more powerful ones but that does not mean they don't equip themselves to the best of their ability.
> 
> i.e. Finland and Russia
> 
> i.e. Sweden and Russia
> 
> i.e. Pakistan and India
> 
> i.e. Israel and the whole Middle East
> 
> Bangladesh is in a much better financial position to equip itself better.
> 
> If nothing else than to give you guys something to think about before you take advantage of us.
> 
> A militarily capable Pakistan and Bangladesh, would not be a welcome situation for you.
> 
> Although, there can never be outright animosity between India and Bangladesh due to geography, it should not lull BD into a false sense of complacency.
> 
> As for Myanmar, the damage has already been done.
> 
> Bangladesh now has to deal with a 1,000,000 person problem that could have been possibly avoided if she had a more capable armed forces and the will to stand up for itself.
> 
> But who is to say, these guys from the East may not do more to hurt BD interests in the future.



Well, defense is every nation's right and you're right there. You guys spend about $4 billion annually, which requires pragmatic purchase planning & identifying critical areas such as air defense, border monitoring and close air support (CAS). It is quite strange that some members here are talking about heavy offensive firepower that is usually present with larger forces.

As for the Indian military, our focus is exclusively on China and Pakistan. The only concern that is exhibited by BSF and state police authorities on the border are the traffickers, drug & cattle smugglers which is an issue. Barring that, there is no security issue, keeping in mind that the long-standing exclave and enclave issue was peacefully resolved between our countries.


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## F-6 enthusiast

heard you all like trainers , this sounds like a good F-7 replacement (with some ToT) for me at least (those of you who dream of J-10, F-16, Gripen need to be realistic) to complement whater EFT/Rafale BAF gets

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481605474239799300
This is going to sound cliche, but i wouldnt expect any major purchases like subs,frigates,MRCA before the national _*''elections'' *_(as if we have those anymore lol ).   

The gov may hold back from making major deals with EU/US until the _*''election'' *_to get legitimacy

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> If this is reflective of the state of mind of a "supposed" leader in the Bangladesh Defense Analysis community (childishness and pettiness as well as misplaced confidence)


This distinguished author (who has written many informative books about PLAAF and Chinese fighter aircraft) seems to have had enough of this DEFSECA constant BS

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

F-6 enthusiast said:


> This distinguished author (who has written many informative books about PLAAF and Chinese fighter aircraft) seems to have had enough of this DEFSECA constant BS
> View attachment 808430


@Deino

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## F-6 enthusiast

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> @Deino


no way , that's him ?


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## Deino

F-6 enthusiast said:


> This distinguished author (who has written many informative books about PLAAF and Chinese fighter aircraft) seems to have had enough of this DEFSECA constant BS
> View attachment 808430




I must admit I remember once a long time ago quite a strange discussion with such a guy - maybe someone can help me - but I think he was claiming Bangladesh may get nearly everything and that was posted on a FB site ... maybe one of you can help what site it was, then I can remember and explain what happened.

I think he claimed they will get J-10C and J-20s ...

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## F-6 enthusiast

Deino said:


> I must admit I remember once a long time ago quite a strange discussion with such a guy - maybe someone can help me - but I think he was claiming Bangladesh may get nearly everything and that was posted on a FB site ... maybe one of you can help what site it was, then I can remember and explain what happened.
> 
> I think he claimed they will get J-10C and J-20s ...


he claim BAF selected J-10C and then later 
he had the* AUDACITY* to claim that J-10C was not up to standard.... what a fool !

i would advise against going through his earlier posts, some of them are very arrogant in nature and raises the blood pressure very quickly

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

F-6 enthusiast said:


> he claim BAF selected J-10C and then later
> he had the* AUDACITY* to claim that J-10C was not up to standard.... what a fool !
> 
> i would advise against going through his earlier posts, some of them are very arrogant in nature and raises the blood pressure very quickly


For what it's worth, he's been getting Pakistan's defence acquisitions right...

He predicted BN would get Type 054A....PN got Type 054A/P
He predicted BAF would get J-10CE...PAF got J-10CE

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> This distinguished author (who has written many informative books about PLAAF and Chinese fighter aircraft) seems to have had enough of this DEFSECA constant BS
> View attachment 808430



You know - I miss the old days when these semi-educated clueless people in Bangladesh did not have access to the wide open world, and could not embarrass a whole country like this.

But then you have them in the West too.

Pewdiepie, SerpentZA and other internet "personalities" have done their bit as I have seen.



F-6 enthusiast said:


> no way , that's him ?



If Mr. Rupprecht is from Germany, then they are from the same country - that much is for sure.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> For what it's worth, he's been getting Pakistan's defence acquisitions right...


in that case, Congrats on your future Purchase of LPD and LHD


Bilal9 said:


> You know - I miss the old days when these semi-educated clueless people in Bangladesh did not have access to the wide open world, and could not embarrass a whole country like this.


his writing style ! have you seen his post where he says ''those of you who made fun of BAF... ... will eat their own words'' yeah we're waiting
or where he promised ''EFT deal was signed 98% done'' until the Deal we signed with France
His source(s): Dude Trust me my friend's dad works at X organisation

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## Bilal9

Deino said:


> I must admit I remember once a long time ago quite a strange discussion with such a guy - maybe someone can help me - but I think he was claiming Bangladesh may get nearly everything and that was posted on a FB site ... maybe one of you can help what site it was, then I can remember and explain what happened.
> 
> I think he claimed they will get J-10C and J-20s ...



Probably these same guys. There are a couple of outfits like these and they both have Facebook pages.

Such shysters, frauds and amateurish peddlers of misinformation are an embarrassment to our country.

Unfortunately, a lot of young Bangladesh folks fall into their "feel good" trap nowadays....clueless people like to boast about something when there is nothing to boast about.

Same syndrome like the "newly minted" middle class in India.

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## leonblack08

Bilal9 said:


> Such shysters, frauds and peddlers of misinformation are an embarrassment to our country.
> 
> Unfortunately, a lot of clueless people fall into their "feel good" trap nowadays....
> 
> Same syndrome like the "newly minted" middle class in India.



These Defseca morons are now peddling the idea that Bangladesh can consider buying Indian drones.

I had been observing this trend with their posts where they openly ridicule Pakistan out of nowhere to get likes from Leaguers and Bhakts. And now they are outright peddling the idea of buying Indian equipment. 

Bunch of liars with malicious agenda. Defence Analyst my foot. Sick of these morons posting useless crap.

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## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> These Defseca morons are now peddling the idea that Bangladesh can consider buying Indian drones.
> 
> I had been observing this trend with their posts where they openly ridicule Pakistan out of nowhere to get likes from Leaguers and Bhakts. And now they are outright peddling the idea of buying Indian equipment.
> 
> Bunch of liars with malicious agenda. Defence Analyst my foot. Sick of these morons posting useless crap.
> 
> 
> View attachment 808676



Firstly, I am SURE they are reading what we post on PDF.

And its they, not a singular person.

Also, credit where it is due, I appreciate that there is at least something that gives us some info on Bangladesh Defense matters.

But at the same time, I really dislike the juvenile commentary/posts coming from that place.

If you are gonna claim yourself to be a leading authority (and I use that term EXTREMELY generously) for a nation, then for goodness sakes be sober and measured in your words.

That page is run by amateurs with hopes.

i.e. Now we have formal recommendations from them for the BD military.

Anyways, I know you are reading this guys.

Appreciate the enthusiasm.

But please keep things more objective and save the snide comments.

It will make you look more professional.

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## Deino

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> For what it's worth, he's been getting Pakistan's defence acquisitions right...
> 
> He predicted BN would get Type 054A....PN got Type 054A/P
> He predicted BAF would get J-10CE...PAF got J-10CE



But getting one thing correct, does not mean he is a reliable defene analyst... even Minnie Chan is not always wrong.




F-6 enthusiast said:


> in that case, Congrats on your future Purchase of LPD and LHD
> 
> his writing style ! have you seen his post where he says ''those of you who made fun of BAF... ... will eat their own words'' yeah we're waiting
> or where he promised ''EFT deal was signed 98% done'' until the Deal we signed with France
> His source(s): Dude Trust me my friend's dad works at X organisation




Pardon? ... who do you think are the same? Deino and Mr. Rupprecht? That's correct or Deino and this strange 2analyst?! That's not correct.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Deino said:


> Pardon? ... who do you think are the same? Deino and Mr. Rupprecht? That's correct or Deino and this strange 2analyst?! That's not correct.


Apologies, I was referring to that bd defence analyst (DEFSECA) , not you when i wrote the above

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## Avicenna

Just another nice video.

A man can dream!

Get it done BAF!

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> The French care about money


something shady about dealing with la france 
everytime i hear some country sign a deal with them i think of this (see below) I cant seem get it out of my head (lol at 1:50)




replace Pegeout with dassault

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> something shady about dealing with la france
> everytime i hear some country sign a deal with them i think of this (see below) I cant seem get it out of my head (lol at 1:50)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> replace Pegeout with dassault


As suppliers, the French are like Russians - they price gouge and miss schedules but do not attach political strings.
However, French equipment are better quality and NATO standard.

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484767788019290112

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## blinder

F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484767788019290112


Anyone know when #4 and #5 will be delivered? They are still at Cambridge, UK.

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## Avicenna

blinder said:


> Anyone know when #4 and #5 will be delivered? They are still at Cambridge, UK.



Great question.

I thought they were supposed to be delivered by now.

Probably this year.


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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487639030464270336

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## Destranator

Is the December 2018 election over yet? BAF's Eurofighters must be gathering rust since they are not allowed to reveal their deal until after the election.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> BAF's Eurofighters must be gathering rust since they are not allowed to reveal their deal until after the election.


it will be The most anticipated gender reveal since whenever....

is it a Eurofighter or is it a Rafale ?




Destranator said:


> election


More chances of having fair elections than MRCA being announced

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> it will be The most anticipated gender reveal since whenever....
> 
> is it a Eurofighter or is it a Rafale ?
> 
> 
> 
> More chances of having fair elections than MRCA being announced


More likely for India to resolve Teesta issue, legalise cattle trade, open up Indian market and become best friends with BD before BAF gets fighters.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> More likely for India to resolve Teesta issue, legalise cattle trade, open up Indian market and become best friends with BD before BAF gets fighters.


Maybe the Eurofighters are BNP supporters ? they dont recognise 2018 election therefore will not reveal themselves?

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Maybe the Eurofighters are BNP supporters ? they dont recognise 2018 election therefore will not reveal themselves?











F-6 of Pakistan Air Force


F-6 Aircraft of Pakistan Air Force Columnist Gp Capt SM HALI remembers the Chinese F-6 aircraft in the PAF. The mach 1.4 F-6 Day Fighter is an export designation of the Chinese-built J-6 (Fighter aircraft 6) which was originally designed as MiG-19 in the USSR, its Soviet prototype...



defence.pk





Enjoy!

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> Enjoy!


enjoying the clown show that is the BAF

the other two branches should intervene on behalf of BAF to speed up MRCA procurement. all other assets are useless without modern fighters
All this drama to get 16 jets ! we were better off with Mig-35+ Su-30 combo at this point.

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> enjoying the clown show that is the BAF
> 
> the other two branches should intervene on behalf of BAF to speed up MRCA procurement. all other assets are useless without modern fighters
> All this drama to get 16 jets ! we were better off with Mig-35+ Su-30 combo at this point.



Bangladesh Air Force is a joke.

An absolute embarrassment.

Either its BAF at fault, or the government of Bangladesh pandering to forces who are committed to limiting the strength of the nation.

As an outside observer, its infuriating.

How in the hell can you justify the state of affairs?

It is 2022.

No order placed.

Just verbal masturbation amongst fan boys on the internet.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh Air Force is a joke.
> 
> An absolute embarrassment.
> 
> Either its BAF at fault, or the government of Bangladesh pandering to forces who are committed to limiting the strength of the nation.
> 
> As an outside observer, its infuriating.
> 
> How in the hell can you justify the state of affairs?
> 
> It is 2022.
> 
> No order placed.
> 
> Just verbal masturbation amongst fan boys on the internet.


I suspect BAF is devoid of even a single patriotic, educated, competent officer.

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## F-6 enthusiast

This is how you do deals








Indonesia orders 42 Rafale jets from France


PARIS, Feb 10 (Reuters) - Indonesia will order 42 Rafale fighter jets, French Defence Minister Florence Parly, who is currently on a trip to the Asian country, confirmed on Thursday. "It's official: Indonesia orders 42 Rafales", she said in a Tweet, saying the order would make Indonesia the...



defence.pk





i wont be surprised if we sign a deal with _La France _

congrats @Indos 






maybe we could use Indonesian facilities for MRO Sometime in the future if we get Rafale

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## F-6 enthusiast

EFT was offered last year​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491622959101857793






MoD UK document :

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._Annual_Report_and_Accounts_2020-21_print.pdf

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## Avicenna

Guys I was looking at a map today and was thinking about Indonesia with its Rafale and possible F-15EX purchase.

Looks like the West is trying to contain shipping pathways for China. i.e. strait of Malacca and alternates.

If this is the case, then Myanmar becomes all the more important for China.

Thoughts?

I post this here because of the political implications regarding future BAF purchases i.e. J-10 vs. F-16 vs. Gripen vs. more verbal masturbation.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Guys I was looking at a map today and was thinking about Indonesia with its Rafale and possible F-15EX purchase.
> 
> Looks like the West is trying to contain shipping pathways for China. i.e. strait of Malacca and alternates.
> 
> If this is the case, then Myanmar becomes all the more important for China.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> I post this here because of the political implications regarding future BAF purchases i.e. J-10 vs. F-16 vs. Gripen vs. more verbal masturbation.



Well the Pakistanis are getting J-10CP, which means we (or Myanmar) may be getting some too as a "supported" state - given fulfillment of conditions?

Speculation is worth no more than toilet paper at this point, No one knows anything.


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Well the Pakistanis are getting J-10CP, which means we may be getting some too as a "supported" state - given fulfillment of conditions?
> 
> Sorry if mine is a dufus comment.



Can you elaborate?

I don't understand.


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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> This is how you do deals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia orders 42 Rafale jets from France
> 
> 
> PARIS, Feb 10 (Reuters) - Indonesia will order 42 Rafale fighter jets, French Defence Minister Florence Parly, who is currently on a trip to the Asian country, confirmed on Thursday. "It's official: Indonesia orders 42 Rafales", she said in a Tweet, saying the order would make Indonesia the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i wont be surprised if we sign a deal with _La France _
> 
> congrats @Indos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe we could use Indonesian facilities for MRO Sometime in the future if we get Rafale



The actual effective contract is just 6 planes with 36 in MOU/LOI level contract. We bought based on the available budget given by Finance Minister.

Our current Defense Minister has crazy defense acquisition plan, not long ago the document leak shows his plan for 140 billion USD defense procurement for just 5 years period. Luckily we still have more sane and responsible Jokowi, Planning Minister, and Finance Minister. Current Armed Force general also criticize Prabowo publicly on TV about his acquisition plan.

Indonesia is saved by Allah with the winning of Jokowi in two Presidential Elections as both the contender for 2014 and 2019 election is Prabowo. AlhamduliLLAH.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Can you elaborate?
> 
> I don't understand.



I corrected my original comment. Sorry.

So - here is my logic. We are not in Pakistan's situation to match parity with India.

I don't think we are getting F-16v's - Indians will object to the US and to Hasina. We are not independent like Pakistan and we will cave in. No chance.

Gripen is not coming because Engine is American - they will embargo that. No chance on that either.

Rafale is a no go - Indians have the same plane.

The only option that could restore the parity with Myanmar somewhat (they have Su-30's on order) is getting a coupe of squadrons of EFT's to counter their Su-30's. And also J-10's to counter their MiG-29's and JF-17's. But our only chance to get J-10C's would be valid if we stay in China camp, or at least not overtly support US Interests. That may be the right approach - given the lower cost of J-10's vs, the other options.

So - historically we have gotten what Myanmarese got from China/Russia trainer-wise. Although we are also not in a position to match parity with Myanmar AF fleet-wide and numbers-wise.

We have almost the same modern trainers as Myanmar does. Yak-130's, JL-8's etc. Except they have more of them. They have triple the MiG-29 inventory we have. Myanmar does some crazy overspending on their AF assets. They are getting 50 more JL-8's for example. I don't think we need more lead-in trainers like Yak-130's other than to cover attrition losses. But we are talking abut MRCA here, not trainers.

So - am I correct in some of my assumptions? Or totally off the mark?

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> I corrected my original comment. Sorry.
> 
> So - here is my logic. We are not in Pakistan's situation to match parity with India.
> 
> I don't think we are getting F-16v's - Indians will object to the US and to Hasina. We are not independent like Pakistan and we will cave in. No chance.
> 
> Gripen is not coming because Engine is American - they will embargo that. No chance on that either.
> 
> Rafale is a no go - Indians have the same plane.
> 
> The only option that could restore the parity with Myanmar somewhat (they have Su-30's on order) is getting a coupe of squadrons of EFT's to counter their Su-30's. And also J-10's to counter their MiG-29's and JF-17's. But our only chance to get J-10C's would be valid if we stay in China camp, or at least not overtly support US Interests. That may be the right approach - given the lower cost of J-10's vs, the other options.
> 
> So - historically we have gotten what Myanmarese got from China/Russia trainer-wise. Although we are also not in a position to match parity with Myanmar AF fleet-wide and numbers-wise.
> 
> We have almost the same modern trainers as Myanmar does. Yak-130's, JL-8's etc. Except they have more of them. They have triple the MiG-29 inventory we have. Myanmar does some crazy overspending on their AF assets. They are getting 50 more JL-8's for example. I don't think we need more lead-in trainers like Yak-130's other than to cover attrition losses. But we are talking abut MRCA here, not trainers.
> 
> So - am I correct in some of my assumptions? Or totally off the mark?



The point I was trying to make was that China will favor Myanmar in any conflict with Bangladesh given the idea that Myanmar is much more important from a geostrategic standpoint than Bangladesh given Western intentions and geograpghy.

And I am not even mentioning things like rare earth.

So it may force Bangladesh's hand into the Western camp.

Of course, there is the India problem which is the complete opposite and for which Bangladesh will need China.

In other words, Bangladesh walks on a tight rope.

I think right now Bangladesh needs to obtain Typhoon or Rafale immediately.

Typhoon for would be appropriate for both India and Myanmar.

Rafale obviously only for Myanmar.

But again getting Rafale isn't the end of the world.

Now that Indonesia is getting a good number, there may be prospect for Bangladesh to work with other Western leaning Asian nations other than India.

(What I am getting at is that I want Bangladesh to up its training to a standard where it can participate in multi nation exercises)

Also note, the idea of Typhoon or Rafale in BAF service was a dream just a few years ago, so at least we can celebrate that.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> Guys I was looking at a map today and was thinking about Indonesia with its Rafale and possible F-15EX purchase.


they will get the new F4 variant which is interesting, maybe all new build fighters will be F4s.



Avicenna said:


> Looks like the West is trying to contain shipping pathways for China. i.e. strait of Malacca and alternates.


The Indonesians would have bought fighters with or without disagreements with China


Avicenna said:


> If this is the case, then Myanmar becomes all the more important for China.


We would gain the upper-hand against Myanmar by simply buying one squadron of Western MRCA. That's it
Heck, even F-16V will be enough , add to that some years of USAF training which is the best. Wouldn't even need these twin engine fighters. its so obvious
Remember : Nothing gets done without civilian approval , maybe its not the BAF's fault.

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> they will get the new F4 variant which is interesting, maybe all new build fighters will be F4s.
> 
> 
> The Indonesians would have bought fighters with or without disagreements with China
> 
> We would gain the upper-hand against Myanmar by simply buying one squadron of Western MRCA. That's it
> Heck, even F-16V will be enough , add to that some years of USAF training which is the best. Wouldn't even need these twin engine fighters. its so obvious
> Remember : Nothing gets done without civilian approval , maybe its not the BAF's fault.



It's interesting that Indonesia moved on from Russian fighters. i.e. Su-35.

International politics is such a fascinating thing.

We have to view all regional/lesser actor conflicts through the lens of the big boys.

US, China and Russia.

Then of course EU/UK.

Everyone else are just pawns.

Getting back to Indonesia I wonder why they decided to buy Rafale and maybe F-15EX and not Su-35 like originally planned.

@Indos

Have a watch.

















The point I am trying to make is if I am China; that valuable coastline Myanmar offers me looks really intriguing.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> It's interesting that Indonesia moved on from Russian fighters. i.e. Su-35.
> 
> International politics is such a fascinating thing.
> 
> We have to view all regional/lesser actor conflicts through the lens of the big boys.
> 
> US, China and Russia.
> 
> Then of course EU/UK.
> 
> Everyone else are just pawns.
> 
> Getting back to Indonesia I wonder why they decided to buy Rafale and maybe F-15EX and not Su-35 like originally planned.
> 
> @Indos
> 
> Have a watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 814699
> 
> 
> The point I am trying to make is if I am China; that valuable coastline Myanmar offers me looks really intriguing.



interesting fact: Indonesia deal for 42 Rafales was 8.1billion USD (bear in mind these are the new F-4 variants )

that means ~ 192.9 million USD per jet
similar to BD MRCAs which will cost 187 million USD per jet

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## Indos

Avicenna said:


> It's interesting that Indonesia moved on from Russian fighters. i.e. Su-35.
> 
> International politics is such a fascinating thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Getting back to Indonesia I wonder why they decided to buy Rafale and maybe F-15EX and not Su-35 like originally planned.
> 
> @Indos
> 
> Have a watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 814699
> 
> 
> The point I am trying to make is if I am China; that valuable coastline Myanmar offers me looks really intriguing.



CATSAA problem for Su 35 acquisition, so we need to buy from non Russian plane. China is impossible due to our dispute in SCS, while France deal is part of big deal that include geopolitics. 

Indonesia and France have become strategic partners and the Rafale deal is just part of another MOU and cooperation. Just see and wait for Indonesian Defense Forum new post, at least one Indonesian has already posted submarine building cooperation between PAL Indonesia and Naval Group from France.

F 15 EX is just a whislist from now, you need to understand Indonesian politics, Minister of Defense has huge ego since he is Jokowi challenger in Presidential Election, many time he makes plan before coordinating with Finance Minister.

I have already explain the issue if you find any thread about Indonesia Rafale deal

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## .King.

Avicenna said:


> It's interesting that Indonesia moved on from Russian fighters. i.e. Su-35.
> 
> International politics is such a fascinating thing.
> 
> We have to view all regional/lesser actor conflicts through the lens of the big boys.
> 
> US, China and Russia.
> 
> Then of course EU/UK.
> 
> Everyone else are just pawns.
> 
> Getting back to Indonesia I wonder why they decided to buy Rafale and maybe F-15EX and not Su-35 like originally planned.
> 
> @Indos
> 
> Have a watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 814699
> 
> 
> The point I am trying to make is if I am China; that valuable coastline Myanmar offers me looks really intriguing.


From the maps, malacca and sunda look easy to close for India, Lombok uncertain, and the large detour impossible.


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## Destranator

Destranator said:


> It is not about money. In the absence of a dedicated Defence Minister and Joint Chief, their is no one other than BAF leadership who can emphasise on the criticality of credible air power for overall defence. Our ministers and bureaucrats do not understand concepts such as BVR, Network Centric Warfare, AESA, etc. All they see is sexy looking Fulcrums carry out high G manoeuvres and assume our air force is "good enough".
> 
> It is the job of BAF to convince the govt by selecting a fighter jet which check all boxes and presenting a comprehensive threat asessment to the cabinet and bureaucracy to make them realise the urgency and deficiencies. The government has many many different spending priorities. As they don't get poked enough by BAF, they assume BAF is doing just fine with the current rate of progress. Their is no public pressure either as most Bangladeshis have zero clue about air defence.
> 
> The other two services do their part just fine. Personnel of these two services also acknowledge what a joke BAF is as an organisation.
> 
> Where do you think Hasina gets her fluffy talking points about manufacturing fighters and helicopters without any clear road map? These are being fed by BAF.
> If BAF faggots had any shame, you would see their leaders resign en masse but no. They just love the perks. BAF's Marshals are the most undeserving of their ranks on this planet.


@F-6 enthusiast
Defseca has gone from "BAF will announce EFT deal right after 2018 elections" to kind of copying my posts.

Re-visit my above post and then read the below:







__





Discover Popular Videos | Facebook


Facebook Watch is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Find the latest trending videos, discover original shows and checkout what's going on with your favorite creators.




 fb.watch

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## X-ray Papa

Destranator said:


> @F-6 enthusiast
> Defseca has gone from "BAF will announce EFT deal right after 2018 elections" to kind of copying my posts.
> 
> Re-visit my above post and then read the below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discover Popular Videos | Facebook
> 
> 
> Facebook Watch is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Find the latest trending videos, discover original shows and checkout what's going on with your favorite creators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch


he deleted the facebook post lol

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## Destranator

X-ray Papa said:


> he deleted the facebook post lol


LMAO

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> @F-6 enthusiast
> Defseca has gone from "BAF will announce EFT deal right after 2018 elections" to kind of copying my posts.
> 
> Re-visit my above post and then read the below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discover Popular Videos | Facebook
> 
> 
> Facebook Watch is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Find the latest trending videos, discover original shows and checkout what's going on with your favorite creators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch





X-ray Papa said:


> he deleted the facebook post lol


anyone got screenshot ?

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## F-6 enthusiast

X-ray Papa said:


> he deleted the facebook post lol


he was sent to কাশিমপুর কারাগার after posting it

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## F-6 enthusiast

Translated from French (French aviation magazine)









L'Airbus DS Typhoon pourrait ravir le Bangladesh au Dassault Aviation Rafale. - avionslegendaires.net


13 février 2022, par Arnaud. Nos lectrices et lecteurs les plus assidus le savent : depuis juin dernier le Bangladesh a officiellement lancé le plan Force Goal 2030 visant à acquérir




www.avionslegendaires.net




THE AIRBUS DS TYPHOON COULD DELIGHT BANGLADESH FROM DASSAULT AVIATION RAFALE.​





Our most frequent readers know that since last June Bangladesh officially launched the _Force Goal 2030_ plan to acquire a new model of multi-role fighter aircraft. *After having launched negotiations with France almost two years ago around the Dassault Aviation Rafale F4, this country now seems to want to make an about-face in favor of the Airbus DS Typhoon Tranche 4*. *The bad diplomatic relations between Bangladeshis and Indians are probably not unrelated*. However, the American aircraft manufacturer Lockheed-Martin and its Swedish competitor Saab are present in ambushes.

For the record_, Force Goal 2030_ is a vast program to modernize the Bangladeshi armies with an entire chapter on combat aviation. It provides for the withdrawal over the period 2025-2030 of the Chengdu F-7 Fishcan fighters of Chinese origin and Mikoyan MiG-29 Fulcrum of Russian origin in favor of a single multi-role aircraft. _Force Goal 2030_ is now driving the nail in the coffin by insisting that the future aircraft must be produced in North America or Western Europe. Chinese and Russian aircraft manufacturers are therefore directly targeted in order to guarantee their exclusion from the competition.

Two years ago, the French Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly, entered into negotiations in this direction with the Bangladeshi Prime Minister, Sheikh Hasina. These were articulated around about fifteen Dassault Aviation Rafale F4 omnirole combat aircraft. Despite good relations, it now seems certain that the talks have not yielded much convincing results. The Asian press is increasingly insisting that India's supplier countries are being diplomatically pressed not to arm Bangladesh. Diplomatic relations between the two neighbors are not good, against a backdrop of inter-religious tensions.
Yet the Bangladesh Air Force was clearly in favor of the Rafale.

So of course this could play into the hands of the two Western fighters reputed to be much cheaper to buy than the Rafale F4: the American Lockheed-Martin F-16V Viper and the Swedish Saab JAS 39E/F Gripen. And it's true. Yet these two planes currently have only an outsider role in Bangladesh.

Because now it is Airbus DS and its partner n°1 Leonardo who are focusing their efforts on Bangladesh. If the latter cannot, diplomatically and / or politically, buy the Rafale F4 he can invest in the Typhoon Tranche 4. Often presented, probably a little wrongly, as the real competitor of the French jet the European fighter is a little struggling currently. He no longer really chains export contracts and is weighed down by the Austrian affair. Especially the aircraft is much more marked as a machine adapted to the Near and Middle Eastern market thanks in particular to its Kuwaiti, Omani, and Saudi contracts. *Bangladesh could truly open up the Asian market to it, **as India did for the Rafale*. We are now talking about sixteen combat aircraft, including three two-seater operational transformation aircraft.

As French, and as Europeans, we do not have to sulk our pleasure. Because if the Rafale F4 now seems rather out of the races it is Airbus Defense & Space that leads the market. And that too can be good for our national and continental industry.
Case to follow.

Photo © Leonardo

source: https://www.avionslegendaires.net/2...gladesh-au-dassault-aviation-rafale/#comments

BTW the author isnt some DEFSECA burner account , he is a genuine aviation journalist with some knowledge about BD

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## X-ray Papa

F-6 enthusiast said:


> he was sent to কাশিমপুর কারাগার after posting it


If he really get his info from inside sources, its really worrying because who tf is he to get info on the armed forces.

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Two years ago, the French Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly, entered into negotiations in this direction with the Bangladeshi Prime Minister, Sheikh Hasina. These were articulated around about fifteen Dassault Aviation Rafale F4 omnirole combat aircraft. Despite good relations, it now seems certain that the talks have not yielded much convincing results. The Asian press is increasingly insisting that India's supplier countries are being diplomatically pressed not to arm Bangladesh. Diplomatic relations between the two neighbors are not good, against a backdrop of inter-religious tensions.
> Yet the Bangladesh Air Force was clearly in favor of the Rafale.




For what reason would the BAF be in favour of Rafale?

India operates it and we know the French will take India's side due to economics.

Also, BAF needs a qualitatively superior fighter to the Rafale and the upcoming UK version with the Mk. 2 AESA radar would have little trouble defeating Rafales more often than it lost. I would not want to be an IAF pilot in a Rafale when facing a BAF Typhoon in this configuaration as my aircraft is inferior in air-combat to the Typhoon in every way.

At this stage 2 squadrons of 36 Typhons woould give BAF total air supremacy over the MAF and a credible deterrent over the IAF.

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## X-ray Papa

punch2000 said:


> ‘Atmanirbharta’: 63 Of The 83 Newly Ordered Tejas Mk-1A Fighter Jets To Have Indigenously Developed Uttam AESA Radars
> 
> 
> Uttam radars will be fitted on all the Tejas Mk-1A jets starting with the 21st unit which will be built by HAL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India develops AESA radar to make IAF fighters more lethal
> 
> 
> Project director D Seshagiri of Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) confirmed this and said that the developed AESA radar is 95% indigenous, with only one imported subsystem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Astra Beyond Visual Range (BVR) Air-to-Air Missile
> 
> 
> Astra is India’s first beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missile indigenously designed and developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). It…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.airforce-technology.com


Dumb Indian dumping your trash post here again.

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## Bilal9

X-ray Papa said:


> Dumb Indian dumping your trash post here again.



This idiot punch2000 and his own cockroach buddies are spamming every thread here in the Bangladesh section.

@waz bhai Many Thanks for cleaning up so far.

I don't think we invited them here through any posts of ours.

These are all new accounts i.e. "new recruits".

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## X-ray Papa

punch2000 said:


> instead of getting humiliated like every other kanglu.


LOL a pot calling kettle black
getting humiliated is what you road shitter are known for

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## leonblack08

punch2000 said:


> SwampKangloid mama had jumped fence many moons back and ever since she was a favourite in certain petrol pumps and bus stands. But then she went back. She should have swallowed



Read this and cry your heart out and then get out of this section. 









16 Indian Soldiers Are Victims in Bangladesh Border Skirmish (Published 2001)


Border skirmish between India and Bangladesh, two generally friendly nations, turns into something uglier, after Bangladesh returns bodies of 16 Indian soldiers and India charges that some of them had been mutilated and shot through eyes (M)




www.nytimes.com





You have been polluting the threads here for far too long now. It's no longer entertaining.

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## X-ray Papa

punch2000 said:


> SwampKangloid mama had jumped fence many moons back and ever since she was a favourite in certain petrol pumps and bus stands. But then she went back. She should have swallowed


Lmao retarded indian ran out of words to say lol

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## punch2000

leonblack08 said:


> Read this and cry your heart out and then get out of this section.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16 Indian Soldiers Are Victims in Bangladesh Border Skirmish (Published 2001)
> 
> 
> Border skirmish between India and Bangladesh, two generally friendly nations, turns into something uglier, after Bangladesh returns bodies of 16 Indian soldiers and India charges that some of them had been mutilated and shot through eyes (M)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have been polluting the threads here for far too long now. It's no longer entertaining.


Your coward soldiers killed them in their own territory and there was no back up too


https://www.financialexpress.com/archive/bsf-kills-five-bdr-men-in-retaliatory-fire/174181/








BSF intruders gun down 2 BDR men


The Border Security Force of India (BSF) shot dead two Bangladesh Rifles (BDR) soldiers at Raghunathpur border under Shibganj upazila in Chainawabganj early yesterday intruding into Bangladesh territory, sparking off tension at all frontiers around the country. The killings coincided with...




www.google.com










BSF kills 5 Bangla Rifles soldiers


Earlier, the Bangladesh soldiers had killed two villagers.



m.rediff.com












How 'Ghatak' commandos dominate the hand-to-hand combat


Chinese army has deployed professional Mixed Martial Art (MMA) fighters to train its troops post-Galwan Valley skirmish, but the training of the 'Ghatak' commandos of the Indian Army is class apart and it dominates the 'old school' training of the PLA soldiers.




www.google.com














Brutal "Ghatak Force" Mercilessly Kill PLA Soldiers At Galwan Valley


ISD Podcast : Brutal "Ghatak Force" Mercilessly Kill PLA Soldiers At Galwan Valley - The Chinese troops could have never imagined the brutality of the Indian soldiers. If you hear to how brutally the Chinese soldiers were killed, it will




www.indiaspeaksdaily.com

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## mb444

punch2000 said:


> ladies fear you because you steal their men. No no, not being homophobic here. You steal their men to make them poo so that MoFo like you can clean the toilet afterward.
> Masochism, you see, comes in different shapes and forms- some in the form of a Henna-heavy-diet-poop with a 20 rupee RayBencho from bus stand.


Say what 🤷‍♂️? We dont speak retard... what on are are you trying to say?

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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

X-ray Papa said:


> Lmao retarded indian ran out of words to say lol


Some indian member took screenshot of your one of the posts (where you were talking about creating task groups in military) and posted it in their forum. 
Nowadays indians are just left with no shame.Just buy some brand 🆕 EFT and then it will be real treat to watch their burning Ga#nds.

Gan#du sa#ale.
Edit: here is the image

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## X-ray Papa

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Some indian member took screenshot of your one of the posts (where you were talking about creating task groups in military) and posted it in their forum.
> Nowadays indians are just left with no shame.Just buy some brand 🆕 EFT and then it will be real treat to watch their burning Ga#nds.
> 
> Gan#du sa#ale.
> Edit: here is the image
> View attachment 815721


you got the link to the forum?


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

X-ray Papa said:


> you got the link to the forum?


Search
"Idiotic sinking state of Bangladesh" on google,the very first result you will see will be a India#n defe#nce for#um.open the forum and at second last page, you will your post.

Can't not write the link address because it will probably be sensored.
Ok let me try if direct link works

https://*********************/members/cheran.30541/
Edit: No! direct link will not work due to PDF rules


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## X-ray Papa

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Search
> "Idiotic sinking state of Bangladesh" on google,the very first result you will see will be a India#n defe#nce for#um.open the forum and at second last page, you will your post.
> 
> Can't not write the link address because it will probably be sensored.
> Ok let me try if direct link works
> 
> https://*********************/members/cheran.30541/
> Edit: No! direct link will not work due to PDF rules


Its ok i found it lol, 

I cant believe that indians are that dumb






Dumb panjeet

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> Say what 🤷‍♂️? We dont speak retard... what on are are you trying to say?



Unbelievable to see how unclear Sanghi thinking is - amazing.

I lost the proclivity to insult them.

All I feel nowadays is sadness and pity on how low humans can descend to ...

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## leonblack08

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> Search
> "Idiotic sinking state of Bangladesh" on google,the very first result you will see will be a India#n defe#nce for#um.open the forum and at second last page, you will your post.
> 
> Can't not write the link address because it will probably be sensored.
> Ok let me try if direct link works
> 
> https://*********************/members/cheran.30541/
> Edit: No! direct link will not work due to PDF rules



I was in that site almost 10 years ago, there were some sensible and rational people there back then. But seeing as they now have threads like that, goes on to show how pathetic this hindutva troll brigade is. They have to take screenshots of our discussions here to have a discussion.

On the plus side, we are living rent free in their head. Great work folks, we already won the psychological war!

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## F-6 enthusiast

leonblack08 said:


> On the plus side, we are living rent free in their head. Great work folks, we already won the psychological war!















bangladesh air force helicopters entered illegaly into india


Two Bangladeshi air force helicopters crossed the Indian border at Basirhat. After four to five minutes, the two helicopters circled through Indian territory and re-entered Bangladesh. Thursday at 2 p.m.,Two Bangladesh Air Force helicopters seen circling the West Jayanagar on the...



defence.pk

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> View attachment 815784
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bangladesh air force helicopters entered illegaly into india
> 
> 
> Two Bangladeshi air force helicopters crossed the Indian border at Basirhat. After four to five minutes, the two helicopters circled through Indian territory and re-entered Bangladesh. Thursday at 2 p.m.,Two Bangladesh Air Force helicopters seen circling the West Jayanagar on the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Sharadin gobor khailey ei dosha-i hobey .... shalader mathai-o gobor dhuika gesey.

Mahima-waley Gobar Snaan ki jay !!

Handi pitao - Corona bhagao !!

Mera desh ki showcase toilet project Mahaan !!

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## F-6 enthusiast

apparently meteor got max 200km range (lethal range is probably less) 

source: Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces)















Meteor – Ein Erfolgsprojekt aus sechs Nationen


Mit der Zertifizierung des Lenkflugkörpers Meteor für den Eurofighter strebt die Luftwaffe einen wahren Meilenstein an.




www.bundeswehr.de

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## Indos

If BD wants to get huge local collaboration, this is the time since PTDI is now offering better local participation and TOT despite the order is not that much

Singapore Airshow 2022: PT Dirgantara to sweeten deal for Philippine patrol aircraft requirement​*18 FEBRUARY 2022

by Ridzwan Rahmat




*
A cut-out model of the CN235 MPA at Singapore Airshow 2022. (Janes/Ridzwan Rahmat)

Indonesian state-owned aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara (PTDI) is sweetening its offer for the Philippine Air Force's (PAF's) requirement for two maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) platforms by offering to work with local industry players on the project.

A PTDI representative told _Janes_ at Singapore Airshow 2022 that the company has been unsuccessful in making a bid in the programme multiple times since 2014, but will now change its strategy to a more direct approach instead.

Given that the bidding process has failed multiple times because of technical reasons, PTDI expects the Philippine Department of Defense (DND) to begin approaching selected vendors directly. In anticipation of this, PTDI has begun arranging proposals that can be taken with Philippine companies should it be selected for the programme.





__





Singapore Airshow 2022: PT Dirgantara to sweeten deal for Philippine patrol aircraft requirement


Indonesian state-owned aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara (PTDI) is sweetening its offer for the Philippine Air Force's (PAF's) requirement for two maritime patrol...



www.janes.com

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## UKBengali

F-6 enthusiast said:


> apparently meteor got max 200km range (lethal range is probably less)
> 
> source: Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces)
> 
> View attachment 816168
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meteor – Ein Erfolgsprojekt aus sechs Nationen
> 
> 
> Mit der Zertifizierung des Lenkflugkörpers Meteor für den Eurofighter strebt die Luftwaffe einen wahren Meilenstein an.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bundeswehr.de




“No Escape Range” is 60km, three times that of the AIM-120C.

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## F-6 enthusiast

UKBengali said:


> “No Escape Range” is 60km, three times that of the AIM-120C.


that's exactly why we should advocate for EFT with Meteor 

its like having a taller opponent in basketball , they will always have an advantage.


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## damiendehorn2

Indos said:


> If BD wants to get huge local collaboration, this is the time since PTDI is now offering better local participation and TOT despite the order is not that much
> 
> Singapore Airshow 2022: PT Dirgantara to sweeten deal for Philippine patrol aircraft requirement​*18 FEBRUARY 2022
> 
> by Ridzwan Rahmat
> 
> View attachment 816772
> *
> A cut-out model of the CN235 MPA at Singapore Airshow 2022. (Janes/Ridzwan Rahmat)
> 
> Indonesian state-owned aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara (PTDI) is sweetening its offer for the Philippine Air Force's (PAF's) requirement for two maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) platforms by offering to work with local industry players on the project.
> 
> A PTDI representative told _Janes_ at Singapore Airshow 2022 that the company has been unsuccessful in making a bid in the programme multiple times since 2014, but will now change its strategy to a more direct approach instead.
> 
> Given that the bidding process has failed multiple times because of technical reasons, PTDI expects the Philippine Department of Defense (DND) to begin approaching selected vendors directly. In anticipation of this, PTDI has begun arranging proposals that can be taken with Philippine companies should it be selected for the programme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Singapore Airshow 2022: PT Dirgantara to sweeten deal for Philippine patrol aircraft requirement
> 
> 
> Indonesian state-owned aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara (PTDI) is sweetening its offer for the Philippine Air Force's (PAF's) requirement for two maritime patrol...
> 
> 
> 
> www.janes.com


This is a great option. 5-6 of these MPAs would help a lot, specially if it comes with ToT (maintenance, overhaul, licenced assembly or part manufacture). Then there's the civilian demand for flights locally.

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## F-6 enthusiast

damiendehorn2 said:


> This is a great option. 5-6 of these MPAs would help a lot, specially if it comes with ToT (maintenance, overhaul, licenced assembly or part manufacture). Then there's the civilian demand for flights locally.


navy said they need Long range MPA with 8-10 hr endurance

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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> navy said they need Long range MPA with 8-10 hr endurance
> View attachment 816895



Singapore Airshow 2022: Indonesia's CN-235 gunship plans delayed by push for aviation biofuel​*18 FEBRUARY 2022






by Ridzwan Rahmat*

Indonesia's plan to develop a gunship variant of the CN-235 twin-engine multi-purpose aircraft has been delayed indefinitely amid a push for the country to commercialise a home-grown aviation biofuel type.

The matter was revealed to _Janes_ by an official from state-owned aerospace company PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) at Singapore Airshow 2022. Notably missing from PTDI's exhibition stand during the show was a model of the CN-235 gunship, which has been displayed at past defence exhibitions.

“We are no longer displaying the gunship because it is unclear when this project will resume,” said the official. “The flying testbed that was supposed to be a platform from which we conduct the firing trials is now involved in pre-commercialisation processes of an Indonesian-developed palm-oil based aviation biofuel known as BioAvtur.”





__





Singapore Airshow 2022: Indonesia's CN-235 gunship plans delayed by push for aviation biofuel


Indonesia's plan to develop a gunship variant of the CN-235 twin-engine multi-purpose aircraft has been delayed indefinitely amid a push for the country to commercialise...



www.janes.com





Can Indian licensed MPA plane currently in BD service do that mission ????

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## F-6 enthusiast

Indos said:


> Can Indian licensed MPA plane currently in BD service do that mission ????


nope Do-228ng just surveillance


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## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> nope Do-228ng just surveillance



It is actually good if MPA has gunship variant since it can give warning shots during the patrol routine while the ability to launch exocet is only useful as deterrence and in real war situation.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Indos said:


> It is actually good if MPA has gunship variant since it can give warning shots during the patrol routine while the ability to launch exocet is only useful as deterrence and in real war situation.
> 
> View attachment 816948
> 
> View attachment 816949


I personally prefer Leonardo ATR-72 (have a bias  🇮🇹)

*if* we get Rafale , maybe we could use Indonesian MRO facilities


----------



## Indos

F-6 enthusiast said:


> I personally prefer Leonardo ATR-72 (have a bias )
> 
> *if* we get Rafale , maybe we could use Indonesian MRO facilities



The TOT and local involvement will be much greater for CN 235 since Indonesian Aerospace at the moment is in difficulty to get another order for their CN 235 production line.

Currently in the final assembly line for CN 235, there are still 3 CN 235 from Malaysia undergone conversion from transport role into MPA role, but those 3 are expected to complete their conversion this year.

They are in dire needs to keep the production line running for CN 235 while the next order for around 10 planes with transport configuration for Indonesian Armed Force will likely happen next year since 2022 budget cannot cover that potential order.

In 2023-2025 they will not likely to offer the same generous local participation since they will likely be very busy to complete the order coming from Indonesian Armed Force.

CN 235 MPA has 11 hours endurance though, much better than BD requirement





__





PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)







www.indonesian-aerospace.com

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## F-6 enthusiast

blinder said:


> Anyone know when #4 and #5 will be delivered? They are still at Cambridge, UK.


today we got one


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495371697054416903
we should buy their entire c-130 stock if possible

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495971610930651138

upcoming talks with USA
pic unrelated 








GSP, democracy, RAB sanction to feature Dhaka-Washington talks


GSP, democracy, RAB sanction to feature Dhaka-Washington talks TRADE Abul Kashem 21 February, 2022, 10:20 pm Last modified: 21 February, 2022, 10:31 pm https://www.tbsnews.net/dropped/trade/gsp-democracy-rab-sanction-feature-dhaka-washington-talks-373999 The suspension of the GSP...



defence.pk






''They, however, mentioned that the main agendas of the meeting are likely be to democracy, human rights and labour rights situation in Bangladesh, sanctions on RAB and its senior officials, and economic cooperation, climate change and Covid-related cooperation, maritime cooperation and harnessing the potential of Free and Open Indo-Pacific, cooperation in peacekeeping operations, counterterrorism, military to military exercise and *defence procurement*.''


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## F-6 enthusiast

not a bad strategy if you think about it

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> today we got one
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495371697054416903
> we should buy their entire c-130 stock if possible



I think they ran out of the shorter 'J' models which were refurbished with RR engines and sold to BAF.

RAF wanted to change over to the longer fuselage models new from the US so they got rid of the shorter 'J' models.



F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495971610930651138
> 
> upcoming talks with USA
> pic unrelated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GSP, democracy, RAB sanction to feature Dhaka-Washington talks
> 
> 
> GSP, democracy, RAB sanction to feature Dhaka-Washington talks TRADE Abul Kashem 21 February, 2022, 10:20 pm Last modified: 21 February, 2022, 10:31 pm https://www.tbsnews.net/dropped/trade/gsp-democracy-rab-sanction-feature-dhaka-washington-talks-373999 The suspension of the GSP...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ''They, however, mentioned that the main agendas of the meeting are likely be to democracy, human rights and labour rights situation in Bangladesh, sanctions on RAB and its senior officials, and economic cooperation, climate change and Covid-related cooperation, maritime cooperation and harnessing the potential of Free and Open Indo-Pacific, cooperation in peacekeeping operations, counterterrorism, military to military exercise and *defence procurement*.''



DTB speculating again.


----------



## Destranator

Destranator said:


> Is the December 2018 election over yet? BAF's Eurofighters must be gathering rust since they are not allowed to reveal their deal until after the election.





F-6 enthusiast said:


> it will be The most anticipated gender reveal since whenever....
> 
> is it a Eurofighter or is it a Rafale ?
> 
> 
> 
> More chances of having fair elections than MRCA being announced







__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/505749490984559




@F-6 enthusiast @X-ray Papa

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496334002168414210


Destranator said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/505749490984559
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-6 enthusiast @X-ray Papa


how does this guy have any credibility ?

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## Avicenna

I was wrong.

I now appreciate more the geopolitical considerations/challenges BD/BAF has in regards to what direction its gonna go with procurement.

Damn the world is a fooked up place.

More important than what Bangladesh buys is it needs to earnestly *set up a robust fighting capability.*

Bangladesh CAN NOT rely on outside players for support if India ever invades.

(Which I thought was an impossibility, but not so sure anymore)

Bangladesh does need to balance the US and China for as long as it can.

And procurement from China DOES need to be part of the military equation.

I think BAF should go European and Chinese and maintain as much as a neutral stance as possible in the coming tensions between the US and China.

Also I encourage you guys to watch the whole video and reflect on his worldview and how it pertains to lesser states like Bangladesh.






Also: Note the date of the talk.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I was wrong.
> 
> I now appreciate more the geopolitical considerations/challenges BD/BAF has in regards to what direction its gonna go with procurement.
> 
> Damn the world is a fooked up place.
> 
> More important than what Bangladesh buys is it needs to set up a real fighting capability.
> 
> Bangladesh CAN NOT rely on outside players for support if India ever invades.
> 
> (Which I thought was an impossibility, but not so sure anymore)
> 
> Bangladesh does need to balance the US and China for as long as it can.
> 
> And procurement from China DOES need to be part of the military equation.
> 
> I think BAF should go European and Chinese and maintain as much as a neutral stance as possible in the coming tensions between the US and China.
> 
> Also I encourage you guys to watch the whole video and reflect on his worldview and how it pertains to lesser states like Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also: Note the date of the talk.




I think an Indian invasion of BD is an almost zero possibility.

India itself is a fragile state and they would be signing their own death warrant by trying to invade and occupy BD.

There are no excuses for BAL/BAF - BD needs to buy a European fighter like Typhoon and follow this up with some J-10CEs from China.

The money should be available for 2 squadrons of each fighter as BD exports 5 billion US dollars per month now!

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I think an Indian invasion of BD is an almost zero possibility.
> 
> India itself is a fragile state and they would be signing their own death warrant by trying to invade and occupy BD.
> 
> There are no excuses for BAL/BAF - BD needs to buy a European fighter like Typhoon and follow this up with some J-10CEs from China.
> 
> The money should be available for 2 squadrons of each fighter as BD exports 5 billion US dollars per month now!




I agree.... chinese fighter is given as our respective strategic outlook are in alignment. As china becomes more powerful so will our alignment more pronounced.

However we are still living in a unipolar world and can not ignore US. Western tec is still the best.... EFT/F15 are the natural duel engine jet of choice.... we need to pick one and just go with it....

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## Destranator

Given the lack of geographical strategic depth, ballistic and cruise missile capabilities are more crucial for BD than even fighter jets.

We need a land-sea-air triad of long range missile launch capabilities. This will gurantee a devastating retaliation no matter how hard the enemy strikes and therefore discourage the enemy, no matter how powerful, from attacking BD. For example, even if IAF manages to obliterate all our key land based assets and installations, BN can still retalliate with ship and submarine launched land attack cruise/ballistic missiles.

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> Given the lack of geographical strategic depth, ballistic and cruise missile capabilities are more crucial for BD than even fighter jets.
> 
> We need a land-sea-air triad of long range missile launch capabilities. This will gurantee a devastating retaliation no matter how hard the enemy strikes and therefore discourage the enemy, no matter how powerful, from attacking BD. For example, even if IAF manages to obliterate all our key land based assets and installations, BN can still retalliate with ship and submarine launched land attack cruise/ballistic missiles.


 I am totally in agreement with this. If we have a SAM arsenal we wont start at the backfoot. Offense is the greatest defense and sams will give the strategic gap that we lack.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> I am totally in agreement with this. If we have a SAM arsenal we wont start at the backfoot. Offense is the greatest defense and sams will give the strategic gap that we lack.



The idea is not just to have SAMs which are hard to position and maneuver, but agile point defense with mini missiles which are affordable and can be given to every trained army person to operate, like the Taliban were trained with stingers.

Every Bangladeshi Airbase & Naval bases, every major infra point like major bridges, ports and other Army command facilities have to have a battery of SAMs as well as MANPAD armies protecting it, networked so that they find out about impending attacks before these happen. Along with these of course drones like Bayraktar TB2s.

We now produce our own short range MANPADs. These will have to be indigenized to the level where they cost less than even imports from China, without sacrificing effectiveness and reliability.


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## Avicenna

Ground based cruise missiles.

That is all.

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## Indos

Brazil Cruise Missile should be the option, BD can also use UCAV instead.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Ground based cruise missiles.
> 
> That is all.


Definitely not enough. BD ground assets can easily be demolished by a large air force thanks to our tiny and mostly flat terrain.
We need a triad.

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497783550195683333


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## ziaulislam

UKBengali said:


> I think an Indian invasion of BD is an almost zero possibility.
> 
> India itself is a fragile state and they would be signing their own death warrant by trying to invade and occupy BD.
> 
> There are no excuses for BAL/BAF - BD needs to buy a European fighter like Typhoon and follow this up with some J-10CEs from China.
> 
> The money should be available for 2 squadrons of each fighter as BD exports 5 billion US dollars per month now!


Yup ukraine thought the same in 1990s

India chanceof invading bengaldesh are indeed zero because bengaldesh is a key alley
Acquiring any such weapons will irk india. I would rather not do so

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## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> The idea is not just to have SAMs which are hard to position and maneuver, but agile point defense with mini missiles which are affordable and can be given to every trained army person to operate, like the Taliban were trained with stingers.
> 
> Every Bangladeshi Airbase & Naval bases, every major infra point like major bridges, ports and other Army command facilities have to have a battery of SAMs as well as MANPAD armies protecting it, networked so that they find out about impending attacks before these happen. Along with these of course drones like Bayraktar TB2s.
> 
> We now produce our own short range MANPADs. These will have to be indigenized to the level where they cost less than even imports from China, without sacrificing effectiveness and reliability.



Whilst for point defense i agree with your point, i would concentrate on medium to long range sams. If the enemy knows that action would be answered with sam attack from BD they will think twice about attacking.

From my perspective it is a failure on our part to be fighting in our soil at a point of first engagement. Even with a defensive posture we must fight in the enemies soil to exert pressure, break their logistics and win the war.

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## F-6 enthusiast

there is no alternative to air power


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

F-6 enthusiast said:


> there is no alternative to air power


No ask from Iranians,there is huge alternative to air power.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> No ask from Iranians,there is huge alternative to air power.


what happens when their supply lines are destroyed by enemy air forces ? 

its not possible to have logistics center in all places ? 

if airpower is useless , why do they operate their aircraft ? some of which date back to 1979 ?


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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> what happens when their supply lines are destroyed by enemy air forces ?
> 
> its not possible to have logistics center in all places ?
> 
> if airpower is useless , why do they operate their aircraft ? some of which date back to 1979 ?




There is no alternative to airpower....period.

SAM are critical for BD and maybe should be prioritised over BAF for a while due to lack of funds....but SAM do not neutralise the need for a strong airforce.

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## F-6 enthusiast

F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497783550195683333


looks like we may sign GSMIOA , 
maybe we wont get Mi-28ne we could get AH-1Z 

this agreement may be signed to silence the US on the upcoming_ *''election'' *_
at least it paves the way forward for F-16s

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> Whilst for point defense i agree with your point, i would concentrate on medium to long range sams. If the enemy knows that action would be answered with sam attack from BD they will think twice about attacking.
> 
> From my perspective it is a failure on our part to be fighting in our soil at a point of first engagement. Even with a defensive posture we must fight in the enemies soil to exert pressure, break their logistics and win the war.



Yeah - I get your point. I don't know if our doctrine calls for pre-emptive strikes though....but taking the fight to the enemies territory is tactically always a better move.

The current Ukraine debacle is a learning lesson for sure.

Large scale use of Kalibr Missiles, use of Su-25 Ground attack jets and heli gunships and transports are classic invasion moves.

Other than the inaccuracy in some case of Russian missiles that hit civilian apt. blocks, I am happily surprised at how little collateral damage has been done.


----------



## mb444

Bilal9 said:


> Yeah - I get your point. I don't know if our doctrine calls for pre-emptive strikes though....but taking the fight to the enemies territory is tactically always a better move.
> 
> The current Ukraine debacle is a learning lesson for sure.
> 
> Large scale use of Kalibr Missiles, use of Su-25 Ground attack jets and heli gunships and transports are classic invasion moves.
> 
> Other than the inaccuracy in some case of Russian missiles that hit civilian apt. blocks, I am happily surprised at how little collateral damage has been done.


Ukraine is vast but sparsely populated... can you imagine the BD scenario... it will be a blood bath from the get go.

We absolutely need SAM arsenal as a defensive measure.

BD tactical battle plans definately seeks to take the fight to the enemy and fight in indian soil. SAM would support and assist in such proposition.

As with everything use of SAM would illicit an indian response so it wont be without cost.

At the end of the day BD position is defensive. It is served by having offensive capacity.

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> Ukraine is vast but sparsely populated... can you imagine the BD scenario... it will be a blood bath from the get go.
> 
> We absolutely need SAM arsenal as a defensive measure.
> 
> BD tactical battle plans definately seeks to take the fight to the enemy and fight in indian soil. SAM would support and assist in such proposition.
> 
> As with everything use of SAM would illicit an indian response so it wont be without cost.
> 
> At the end of the day BD position is defensive. It is served by having offensive capacity.



Yes - we can take a page from the Russian doctrine as seen by the recent invasion. They bypassed the auxiliary cities and quickly tried to capture the two main cities Kharkiv and Kyiv.

I am sure any adversary trying to invade us will be proceeding along similar lines, i.e. lightning strikes to capture main cities like Dhaka, Chittagong and Sylhet. As in 1971 - the main column would push in from the East.

Of course - adversaries would face far, far stiffer resistance in Bangladesh city streets from conscripts and regulars. Pitched battles would rage on for months. Would be very costly for any invader.

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## F-6 enthusiast

from 








We can work together to enhance military capacity: Dickson


Bangladesh and the UK are holding their first ever defence dialogue from Wednesday in Dhaka




en.prothomalo.com





context Q&A session with British HC 

Q: We know that there is a competition among the European nations to sell sophisticated jets to Bangladesh Air Force. Will the issue come up in the discussions?

A: Yes, we will be talking about equipment issues. But I don't want to get into the precise details.

Q: So you are interested in selling sophisticated military equipment to Bangladesh Armed Forces?

*A: It is for Bangladesh to decide what it needs. If Bangladesh decides this is the capability it needs, it is worth saying that I think the tragedy of the last week reminded everybody that defence forces are very important to preserving sovereignty and we would certainly argue that Eurofighter will be a very good investment for preserving sovereignty. And the same thing would apply to Offshore Trovas ships.*
As Bangladesh has demarcated its economic area in the Bay of Bengal and the ability to protect those maritime resources and develop the blue economy is very important. These ships could be extremely useful in delivering effective economic solutions and to enable Bangladesh to protect and exploit economic resources in the Bay of Bengal. The point is we are not thrusting these things at Bangladesh. If Bangladesh Armed Forces decide that they need particular capabilities, we are happy to make those capabilities available for Bangladesh.


----------



## BlindEagle

Bilal9 said:


> Yes - we can take a page from the Russian doctrine as seen by the recent invasion. They bypassed the auxiliary cities and quickly tried to capture the two main cities Kharkiv and Kyiv.
> 
> I am sure any adversary trying to invade us will be proceeding along similar lines, i.e. lightning strikes to capture main cities like Dhaka, Chittagong and Sylhet. As in 1971 - the main column would push in from the East.
> 
> Of course - adversaries would face far, far stiffer resistance in Bangladesh city streets from conscripts and regulars. Pitched battles would rage on for months. Would be very costly for any invader.


In 71 india had success coming into Bengalis only because muktis were not their adversary. The difficulty of bringing armored corp through rivers have been difficult for all armies in the world. I would like to think our best perks is our skill in amphibious and jungle warfare which goes very well when trying to defend a nation like bd. 
Also we’re more well versed in guerrilla tactics than conventional warfare and it’s effectiveness is being demonstrated in Kherson, melitopol and Kharkiv where city changed hands multiple times


----------



## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Russia should retalliate by deploying the ultimate nemesis of MiG-29's - one which can ground them indefinitely - the Begum Khaleda Zia.
> 
> @F-6 enthusiast @Bilal9 @Kharap Foa


Actually F-7BG are better than Mig-29s according to some former PM 

BAF F-7 pilots will be renamed ''Ghost of Gulistan''

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## BlindEagle

So no new updates on fighters since I was banned?


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## Avicenna

BlindEagle said:


> So no new updates on fighters since I was banned?



Yo!

Glad to see you post!

I HOPE you are out of Ukraine man!

And no, BAF is still pathetic.

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## BlindEagle

Avicenna said:


> Yo!
> 
> Glad to see you post!
> 
> I HOPE you are out of Ukraine man!
> 
> And no, BAF is still pathetic.


I’m in Kuwait rn 

Oh well, good thing we didn’t get sukhois or migs. They’re falling out of skies left and right in ukraine

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlindEagle said:


> So no new updates on fighters since I was banned?


we signed some MoU with _La France_ on purchasing weapons 

BAF still incompetent 









BAF fully capable of protecting Bangladesh air space: Air Chief


The 3-day long Annual Exercise of Bangladesh Air Force named “WINTEX-2022” is continuing in full swing




en.prothomalo.com





more news at 10...

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## F-6 enthusiast

we lost out on Saudi aerospace investment because of Gov + BAF negligence @Destranator

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> we lost out on Saudi aerospace investment because of Gov + BAF negligence @Destranator
> View attachment 824397


Dont believe this...because its the Saudis who are masters of talk but little action.

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## F-6 enthusiast

mb444 said:


> Dont believe this...because its the Saudis who are masters of talk but little action.


i believe the Saudis more than I believe the BAF (given their track record.)

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## mb444

F-6 enthusiast said:


> i believe the Saudis more than I believe the BAF (given their track record.)


Lol...agreed on our general incompetence..... but saudies are masters of BS.

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## BlindEagle

F-6 enthusiast said:


> we signed some MoU with _La France_ on purchasing weapons
> 
> BAF still incompetent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BAF fully capable of protecting Bangladesh air space: Air Chief
> 
> 
> The 3-day long Annual Exercise of Bangladesh Air Force named “WINTEX-2022” is continuing in full swing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.prothomalo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more news at 10...


Judging by that caption, what are they smoking? I would like some



mb444 said:


> Lol...agreed on our general incompetence..... but saudies are masters of BS.


Lol their deal fell off with the Ukrainians so I was wondering how they would set up plants to maintain Ukrainian aircrafts when they haven’t had experience with them in the first place

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## Bilal9

mb444 said:


> Lol...agreed on our general incompetence..... but saudies are masters of BS.



How the freak could Lalmonirhat EVER become a regional logistics air-hub??

I mean I cannot make any sense out of this.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Army wants to gobble up this year's Arms and Ammunition procurement budget meant for BAF and BN. 

not sure what they're trying to do here. Maybe *influence* the gov to increase the procurement budget

see below

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Army wants to gobble up this year's Arms and Ammunition procurement budget meant for BAF and BN.
> 
> not sure what they're trying to do here. Maybe *influence* the gov to increase the procurement budget
> 
> see below
> View attachment 824686



What does that mean exactly?


----------



## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> What does that mean exactly?


a meeting was held to discuss the army's proposal to reallocate funds meant for BAF and BN's ''weaponry and ammunition'' procurement (for the financial year 2021-22) to the army. Something along those lines



BlindEagle said:


> Judging by that caption, what are they smoking? I would like some


they are taking chetona flavoured weed.

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## leonblack08

Rumors floating around that Belarus may be going through some sort of coup.

First question on my mind, what happens to the rest of our Migs?


----------



## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> Rumors floating around that Belarus may be going through some sort of coup.
> 
> First question on my mind, what happens to the rest of our Migs?



Are the second batch in Belarus?


----------



## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> Are the second batch in Belarus?



I am not sure. Read somewhere a few weeks ago that they are sending the second batch too. Not sure how reliable that info was.

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## leonblack08

PM Hasina on GROB 120 Induction ceremony yesterday -

"In the second phase within this year, she said, *14 more GROB-120 training aircraft will be added to the fleet of the force.*

The prime minister said that through all these inclusions, the capability of BAF was further enhanced, adding, ‘I firmly believe that the state-of-the-art GROB-120 training aircraft will play an effective role in the timely training of the young pilots.’

*Unmanned Aerial Vehicle System, Air Defence System Integration, Mobile Gap Filler Radar, K-8W Aircraft Simulator, Attack Helicopters and various military equipment would be incorporated into the air force as soon as possible, she continued.

Source: https://www.newagebd.net/article/165568/pm-asks-air-force-to-work-with-patriotism-to-achieve-goal*

No indication on fighter jets yet.

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505756082630582275
Path forward to F-16s may be clear.

interesting timing tho ,









Biden administration rules Myanmar army committed genocide against Rohingya


The Biden administration has formally determined that violence committed against the Rohingya minority by Myanmar's military amounts to genocide and crimes against humanity, U.S. officials told Reuters, a move that advocates say should bolster efforts to hold the junta that now runs Myanmar...




www.reuters.com





although correlation is not causation.

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## Arthur

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Army wants to gobble up this year's Arms and Ammunition procurement budget meant for BAF and BN.
> 
> not sure what they're trying to do here. Maybe *influence* the gov to increase the procurement budget
> 
> see below
> View attachment 824686


May be it’s time to abolish the AFD and establish three new separate departments for tri services. Department of Army, Department of Navy & Department of Air Force will directly operate under ministry of defence. Also Bangladesh should introduce Joint Chief's office. It will greatly improve interservice co-operability and reduce inter service rivalry.

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## Raider 21

Plane spotting

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## F-6 enthusiast

Arthur said:


> May be it’s time to abolish the AFD and three new separate departments for tri services. Department of Army, Department of Navy & Department of Air Force will directly operate under ministry of defence. Also Bangladesh should introduce Joint Chief's office. It will greatly improve interservice co-operability and reduce inter service rivalry.


it will just be another institution dominated by the Army just like all south asian militaries. the fact that this discussion was conducted speaks volumes. if it is to be done, it should be for fixed terms and circulating between the three armed forces chiefs.


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## Muhammad Saftain Anjum

F-6 enthusiast said:


> it will just be another institution dominated by the Army just like all south asian militaries


LOL you are on the spot.I don't know about India but in Pakistan, chief of Joint staff has always been an army guy.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> LOL you are on the spot.I don't know about India but in Pakistan, chief of Joint staff has always been an army guy.


rawat once said IAF is the supporting arm of IA. its true India as it is for Pakistan, BD and many other countries.
the air force should be the tip of the spear in any modern conflict not a ''support force''
No politician has the guts to say no to the army.

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## Raider 21

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> LOL you are on the spot.I don't know about India but in Pakistan, chief of Joint staff has always been an army guy.


There was a PAF Air Chief that was also the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee in the 90s. His name was Farooq Feroze Khan

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508323000747241477
abal force prioritising helos of all things.

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## Imran Khan

Muhammad Saftain Anjum said:


> LOL you are on the spot.I don't know about India but in Pakistan, chief of Joint staff has always been an army guy.


first of all its Joint Chiefs of Staff *Committee.*
all 3 services are members of this committee .
ACM feroz khan was CJCSC from airforce .
ADMIRAL iftakhar ahmed was CJCSC from navy 
ADMIRAL mohmmad sharif was CJCSC from navy

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508323000747241477
> abal force prioritising helos of all things.


I don't think BAF understand the concept of an Air Force.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> I don't think BAF understand the concept of an Air Force.


its called the chair force for some reason !

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## F-6 enthusiast

C-130J MRO plants approved

maybe we should get the entire RAF C-130J fleet, if the price is right...









নতুন ভূরাজনৈতিক পরিস্থিতিতে বাজেটের বাইরে দ্রুত অর্থ ছাড় চায় প্রতিরক্ষা মন্ত্রণালয়


ভূরাজনৈতিক বাস্তবতা, পরিবর্তনশীল রণকৌশল ও প্রতিবেশী দেশগুলোর ক্রমাগত সামরিক শক্তি বৃদ্ধির পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে সার্বিক সক্ষমতা আরো বাড়ানো প্রয়োজন বলে মনে করছে বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী। এজন্য তারা বহরে যুক্ত করতে চায় আধুনিক প্রযুক্তির অ্যাটাক হেলিকপ্টার। এরই মধ্যে ৪ হাজার ১০০ কোটি টাকা ব্যয়ে আটটি...




bonikbarta.net

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> I don't think BAF understand the concept of an Air Force.



Air ই তো বেশি নাই। ছোট জায়গা। Force দিয়া কি করবে?

সুপারসোনিক প্লেন এ দুই মিনিটে পার হয়ে যাওয়া যায়।

What we need more is sophisticated and accurate Ground-to-Air missiles (stinger and larger types), land-based CWIS rotary cannon (C-RAM equivalents) with proximity fuse rounds as well as the ToT to make them locally to be self-sufficient in these technologies. We can make the leap now and bypass intermediate steps. These are defensive technologies, should have an easier time getting ToT. The Missile stuff is in flight with China already.

OTOH, we also need maritime strike fighters to launch Exocet type air-to-surface missiles to hit ships to break blockages.

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## Bilal9

F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508323000747241477
> abal force prioritising helos of all things.



I thought that was the domain of the Army....same story in all militaries....

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> I thought that was the domain of the Army....same story in all militaries....


It would be one thing if BAF was dominating South Asia with 4++ gen fighter jets and Network Centric Warfare and then overreached to bully the army and get attack helicopters. I cannot fathom how BAF leadership manages to get any shut eye given the state of BAF vis-a-vis the neighbourhood.

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## Avicenna

Enjoy!

Interesting, F-7MB is still active @ 1:16.

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## Yasser76

Destranator said:


> It would be one thing if BAF was dominating South Asia with 4++ gen fighter jets and Network Centric Warfare and then overreached to bully the army and get attack helicopters. I cannot fathom how BAF leadership manages to get any shut eye given the state of BAF vis-a-vis the neighbourhood.



True, BAF have been talking of getting a 4.5th Gen fighter for 10 years now, in my opinion though I think that would be a mistake. To defend Bangladeshi skies from an intruder (from Myanamar or India) the flight times are so short and air space so small it may make a quick reaction alert unfeasable, the fighters may not get up in time, also India and others can easily strike BAF airfields from the safety of their own air space as Bangladesh is a relatively small country. What could a Typhoon/Gripen/Rafale realistically achieve? Unless you hade 4-6 on constant CAP during crisis which would be expensive and require a force of at least 36 planes.

I think a better solution would be to create a formidable air defence network which would make any attack very expensive for the aggressor, this could include anti cruise/ballistic missile defences. Concentrate just 5 high powered 3D radars (1 for each corner of the country and 1 for the coast) combine with either HQ-9, S-400 or THAAD, then during crisis you will have coverage over much of India and Myanamar, simply blow everything that moves out of the sky if anyone tries anything.

All the above can be supported with low/medium level SAMs such as HQ-16/Pantsir/Iron Dome for local defence of vital assets. 

All the above will be cheaper and more effective then a few planes you can get in the air in time and also give any attacker a very big headache.


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## BlindEagle

F-6 enthusiast said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508323000747241477
> abal force prioritising helos of all things.


Motherchod will send them to UN to gain back the money spent on these and then somehow not be able to explain where it went



Bilal9 said:


> Air ই তো বেশি নাই। ছোট জায়গা। Force দিয়া কি করবে?
> 
> সুপারসোনিক প্লেন এ দুই মিনিটে পার হয়ে যাওয়া যায়।
> 
> What we need more is sophisticated and accurate Ground-to-Air missiles (stinger and larger types), land-based CWIS rotary cannon (C-RAM equivalents) with proximity fuse rounds as well as the ToT to make them locally to be self-sufficient in these technologies. We can make the leap now and bypass intermediate steps. These are defensive technologies, should have an easier time getting ToT. The Missile stuff is in flight with China already.
> 
> OTOH, we also need maritime strike fighters to launch Exocet type air-to-surface missiles to hit ships to break blockages.


Air defence missiles systems shouldn’t be the sole priority, they can always be overloaded and bypassed. Right now if india or Burma decides to conduct an air strike we don’t even have enough planes activated for 15 minute scramble order at all times.

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## BlindEagle

After seeing this video, I’m skeptical about bd pursuing EFT instead of rafale. We can’t get a platform that can only do air superiority missions especially because our airforce is small

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlindEagle said:


> After seeing this video, I’m skeptical about bd pursuing EFT instead of rafale. We can’t get a platform that can only do air superiority missions especially because our airforce is small


French only care about money , they dont put restrictions like Germany or UK.

they gave scalpe (560km range stealth cruise missile) to egypt despite being an MTCR member and isreali protests.

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlindEagle said:


> Motherchod will send them to UN to gain back the money spent on these and then somehow not be able to explain where it went


Aha now i see the urgency to buy helos. it all makes sense now

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## leonblack08

BlindEagle said:


> Motherchod will send them to UN to gain back the money spent on these and then somehow not be able to explain where it went



The money will go to building new convention halls, where VIPs can host weddings and invite Sunny Leon.

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## F-6 enthusiast

leonblack08 said:


> The money will go to building new convention halls, where VIPs can host weddings and invite Sunny Leon.


the money will drive up the house prices in Canada if you know what i'm saying 

might as well call it the ''_Canadian Enrichment Scheme'' _

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## UKBengali

Yasser76 said:


> True, BAF have been talking of getting a 4.5th Gen fighter for 10 years now, in my opinion though I think that would be a mistake. To defend Bangladeshi skies from an intruder (from Myanamar or India) the flight times are so short and air space so small it may make a quick reaction alert unfeasable, the fighters may not get up in time, also India and others can easily strike BAF airfields from the safety of their own air space as Bangladesh is a relatively small country. What could a Typhoon/Gripen/Rafale realistically achieve? Unless you hade 4-6 on constant CAP during crisis which would be expensive and require a force of at least 36 planes.
> 
> I think a better solution would be to create a formidable air defence network which would make any attack very expensive for the aggressor, this could include anti cruise/ballistic missile defences. Concentrate just 5 high powered 3D radars (1 for each corner of the country and 1 for the coast) combine with either HQ-9, S-400 or THAAD, then during crisis you will have coverage over much of India and Myanamar, simply blow everything that moves out of the sky if anyone tries anything.
> 
> All the above can be supported with low/medium level SAMs such as HQ-16/Pantsir/Iron Dome for local defence of vital assets.
> 
> All the above will be cheaper and more effective then a few planes you can get in the air in time and also give any attacker a very big headache.




Few things to note:


1. BD is actually not that small compared to other countries that have dozens if not over a hundred fighters in their airforce.

2. Having 4-6 planes in the air at any one time would not be a big deal for a country of BD's size in terms of economy. BD can well afford many dozens of planes with it's economy. It is a question of political will more than anything.

3. Fighters are far more flexible in terms of employment as in they can also bomb the enemy.


I agree that BD needs to also work on a multi-layered air-defence network consisting of short, medium and long-range SAMs. The FM-90 already fulfils the short-range SAM and BD should now move into creating a robust country-wide SAM network based on mainly medium with some long-range SAMs.

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## Yasser76

UKBengali said:


> Few things to note:
> 
> 
> 1. BD is actually not that small compared to other countries that have dozens if not over a hundred fighters in their airforce.
> 
> 2. Having 4-6 planes in the air at any one time would not be a big deal for a country of BD's size in terms of economy. BD can well afford many dozens of planes with it's economy. It is a question of political will more than anything.
> 
> 3. Fighters are far more flexible in terms of employment as in they can also bomb the enemy.
> 
> 
> I agree that BD needs to also work on a multi-layered air-defence network consisting of short, medium and long-range SAMs. The FM-90 already fulfils the short-range SAM and BD should now move into creating a robust country-wide SAM network based on mainly medium with some long-range SAMs.



Can you name me a country BD's size that has over 100 fighters?

BD is actually almost totally surrounded by India so the geography angle is even more difficult, a small nation almost surrounded by another, any country in these circumstances would be hard pressed to react in time. A more proactive approach would be a high altitide SAM that the enemy knew was constantly tracking them once they flew near BD rather then a passive approach of fighter CAPS that can be surprised very quickly from any direction. 

to keep one plane in the air constantly you need 3 planes. 1 in the air, 1 getting ready to fly up and replace it and one getting repaired/refueled, also keep in mind at anytime a fighter can develop a malfunction so you need to add an mergency reserve. To keep 6 fighters in the air constantly you will need 40 fighters MINIMUM, 2 squadrons of high end jets.


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## UKBengali

Yasser76 said:


> Can you name me a country BD's size that has over 100 fighters?
> 
> BD is actually almost totally surrounded by India so the geography angle is even more difficult, a small nation almost surrounded by another, any country in these circumstances would be hard pressed to react in time. A more proactive approach would be a high altitide SAM that the enemy knew was constantly tracking them once they flew near BD rather then a passive approach of fighter CAPS that can be surprised very quickly from any direction.
> 
> to keep one plane in the air constantly you need 3 planes. 1 in the air, 1 getting ready to fly up and replace it and one getting repaired/refueled, also keep in mind at anytime a fighter can develop a malfunction so you need to add an mergency reserve. To keep 6 fighters in the air constantly you will need 40 fighters MINIMUM, 2 squadrons of high end jets.




Lots.

South Korea and Taiwan are just two examples.

BD is in a dangerous neighbourhood and so should ideally go for 150-200 fighters.

BD’s economy can easily afford these number of jets over a 10-15 year buildup + the SAM network as well.

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## Avicenna

Yasser76 said:


> Can you name me a country BD's size that has over 100 fighters?
> 
> BD is actually almost totally surrounded by India so the geography angle is even more difficult, a small nation almost surrounded by another, any country in these circumstances would be hard pressed to react in time. A more proactive approach would be a high altitide SAM that the enemy knew was constantly tracking them once they flew near BD rather then a passive approach of fighter CAPS that can be surprised very quickly from any direction.
> 
> to keep one plane in the air constantly you need 3 planes. 1 in the air, 1 getting ready to fly up and replace it and one getting repaired/refueled, also keep in mind at anytime a fighter can develop a malfunction so you need to add an mergency reserve. To keep 6 fighters in the air constantly you will need 40 fighters MINIMUM, 2 squadrons of high end jets.











Republic of Singapore Air Force - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Singapore is an extreme example.

TINY city state.

Enormous and capable Air Force.

Bangladesh's main issue is the lack of political will.

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## Yasser76

UKBengali said:


> Lots.
> 
> South Korea and Taiwan are just two examples.
> 
> BD is in a dangerous neighbourhood and so should ideally go for 150-200 fighters.
> 
> BD’s economy can easily afford these number of jets over a 10-15 year buildup + the SAM network as well.



150-200 fighters will only represent massive targets for the enemy, Singapore, Taiwain etc have at least some distance from their enemies, BD will have little. In modern war the reactions times will be measured possibly in seconds, if you are luck in minutes. A heavily integrated and layered SAM system will provide instant response.


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## UKBengali

Yasser76 said:


> 150-200 fighters will only represent massive targets for the enemy, Singapore, Taiwain etc have at least some distance from their enemies, BD will have little. In modern war the reactions times will be measured possibly in seconds, if you are luck in minutes. A heavily integrated and layered SAM system will provide instant response.





Incorrect.

Taiwan has China less than 100 miles away and the Chinese have the world's largest arsenal of ballistic and probably cruise missiles. They also have MLRS with ranges of many hundreds of kms and so well able to hit any part of Taiwan from mainland China.

Singapore has absolutely zero depth as it is a tiny city state smaller than a typical large city and is surrounded by both Malaysia and Indonesia with MLRS that they can rain down rockets on Singapore.

BD needs to be smart and build hardened shelters and they can also build underground hangars for planes. Both the Sylhet Hills and Chittagong Hill Tracts are ideal locations for building underground shelters due to their geography.

It is not as easy to destroy an airforce on the ground as you imagine. Look at how Russia has been totally unable to even seriously degrade the Ukrainian airforce on the ground. Forget about 1967 war in ME as Arabs are totally incompetent in military matters.

BD is expected to have an economy more than 1 trillion US dollars by the end of this decade and keep growing fast after this time, so there is no reason that BD cannot build a relatively large and capable air force.

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## BlindEagle

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Aha now i see the urgency to buy helos. it all makes sense now


Explain please



Yasser76 said:


> Can you name me a country BD's size that has over 100 fighters?
> 
> BD is actually almost totally surrounded by India so the geography angle is even more difficult, a small nation almost surrounded by another, any country in these circumstances would be hard pressed to react in time. A more proactive approach would be a high altitide SAM that the enemy knew was constantly tracking them once they flew near BD rather then a passive approach of fighter CAPS that can be surprised very quickly from any direction.
> 
> to keep one plane in the air constantly you need 3 planes. 1 in the air, 1 getting ready to fly up and replace it and one getting repaired/refueled, also keep in mind at anytime a fighter can develop a malfunction so you need to add an mergency reserve. To keep 6 fighters in the air constantly you will need 40 fighters MINIMUM, 2 squadrons of high end jets.


Indian territory may surround us but have you looked up strategic military installations that’s a threat to bd? There’s practically no threat up north and in the east. 

Also to answer to your question of country that’s sized like bd but has hundreds of fighters, I’ll give you example of smaller nations, Singapore, Israel, South Korea, Taiwan



F-6 enthusiast said:


> French only care about money , they dont put restrictions like Germany or UK.
> 
> they gave scalpe (560km range stealth cruise missile) to egypt despite being an MTCR member and isreali protests.
> View attachment 828703


That was a very good deal then

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlindEagle said:


> Explain please


basically your point that BAF is going to use these helos in UN missions and make some money. 

BAF justifies this by saying that geopolitical changes in the region require BAF to purchase attack helos, There are more important things (MRCA , MRSAM+ Frigates ) that require the goverment's attention rather than stupid helos which will be of no use in air war without proper air support.

BAF probably knows that gov wont respond to requests for funding MRCA , so they made this stupid request who tf knows anymore.

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## Avicenna

BAF is a basketcase.

Facts.

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## F-6 enthusiast

BlindEagle said:


> That was a very good deal then


money always speaks. its a very capable missile. game changing missile if there ever was one...
amago taka ase, kintu ichha nai


F-6 enthusiast said:


> BAF justifies this by saying that geopolitical changes in the region require BAF to purchase attack helos, There are more important things (MRCA , MRSAM+ Frigates ) that require the goverment's attention rather than stupid helos which will be of no use in air war without proper air support.


i think a more apt analogy would be :

you will start working in a new place, the pay is decent one problem is that it is 30 miles away from home. You set aside some money to buy a small car , gets you from A to B, nothing too fancy.
One fine day you wake up and think '_'hmmm actually i am better off spending that money on a bicycle , will spend the rest of the money on blackjack and cocaine''_.

That's what BAF is doing rn.

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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> BAF is a basketcase.
> 
> Facts.


Just randomly clicked on Bangladesh Air forces Headquarter Facebook page and this showed up.

Basket case it is.

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## Avicenna

leonblack08 said:


> Just randomly clicked on Bangladesh Air forces Headquarter Facebook page and this showed up.
> 
> Basket case it is.



WTF is that?


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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> WTF is that?



Yeah, I had the same reaction too.

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## BlindEagle

Avicenna said:


> WTF is that?


That sir is the cover photo of an ugly Bengali girl

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## Avicenna

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509770029885440001








'No relationship is sacrosanct'


Two events in recent times have shaken the world and these are Covid and the conflict in Ukraine, said speakers at a roundtable organized jointly by BIPSS and Dhaka Tribune on Wednesday




en.prothomalo.com





Bangladesh
BIPSS-Dhaka Tribune roundtable​'No relationship is sacrosanct'​Staff Correspondent
Dhaka
Published: 31 Mar 2022, 01:46




The advent of the Covid-19 pandemic and, more recently, the conflict in Ukraine, are the most visible highlights of the emerging world order. Along with the rise of new global powers, changing international equations seem to be leading to a possible new Cold War era. Smaller countries like Bangladesh can no longer sit back and watch as detached spectators. The time demands new negotiations and astute navigation.



Discussants brought up these issues at a roundtable organised jointly by BIPSS and Dhaka Tribune at a local hotel in the capital city on Wednesday. Titled ‘The Emerging World Order: How Will Bangladesh Negotiate’, the event was addressed by former foreign secretary Md Touhid Hossain and professor of international relations at Dhaka University, ASM Ali Ashraf and moderated by president of Bangladesh Institute of Peace and Security Studies (BIPSS) Major General ANM Muniruzzaman (retd).
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“Two events in recent times have shaken the world,” ANM Muniruzzaman observed at the outset of the programme, “and these are Covid and the conflict in Ukraine. Small powers need to find their place in this emerging scenario, based on their national interests. It seems like Cold War 2.0 has arrived, on grounds of system of government -- democratic and autocratic systems.”
Coming directly to the topic of the emerging world order, former foreign secretary Touhid Hossain raised the question – what are the changes that have shaped the order?
Firstly, he said, there was the rise of China as a dominant and assertive world power. Then there was Covid-19. Apart from the health issues, it also brought to light that over dependence on China for goods can be dangerous. Ships weren’t moving at the time and things came to a standstill. “This should not happen and this is a lesson to be learnt,” he said.
The next significant event that has contributed to shaping the world, Touhid Hossain pointed out, was the virtual defeat and retreat of the US from Afghanistan. “There is a different type of government in Afghanistan now. Whether it is recognised or not, it is there, a reality,” he said.
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The war in Ukraine was another flashpoint in the emerging circumstances and there are quite a few lessons to be learned in this case. Russia and Ukraine had such good relations, shared history, were so close culturally. So the lesson here is no relationship is sacrosanct. Also, a weaker country like Ukraine can withdraw support and Russian plans haven’t worked as they had wanted.
An offshoot to this conflict is Germany, the former foreign secretary pointed out, elaborating that for 75 years Germany had been pacifist. Now, however, they have pushed their defence budget up to 2 per cent of the GDP.
Coming to Bangladesh, Touhid Hossain said Bangladesh has come a long way over the past 50 years. Its exports alone cross 40 billion dollars annually. Even in the social sector strides have been made with gender parity in primary school enrollment and almost in secondary school enrollment too. But, he said, pointing to the downsides, democracy and human rights were regressing, according to indexes of reliable international institutions.
As for relations with neighbours, he said, “Bangladesh had been able to maintain a balance in its good relations with China and India, though the two are hostile to one another. Bangladesh had tangibly uprooted insurgents of India’s northeastern states, provided India with transit access, but there is a general feeling that this has unfortunately not been reciprocated. Other irritants were India’s Citizen Amendment Act, the National Register for Citizens of Assam and so on, though the most sensitive was the killing of Bangladesh citizens on the border by India’s Border Security Force (BSF). It is said that Bangladesh-India relations have stood the test of time, but time is a continuous process.”



> We need to look to new friends, we can explore Europe. We need to invest in human resources, in technology transfer. And militarily, we need to develop minimum deterrent capacity at the least


Md Touhid Hossain, former foreign secretary
He added that China was aware of Bangladesh’s relations with India, but China was pragmatic and understood the significance of these ties.
About the challenges faced by Bangladesh at this juncture of global events, Touhid Hossain pointed to the advantage of the country’s demographic dividend, but also the skill shortage in human resources. “If you have to be an important player,” he said, “you need the skills and technology. Even our internet speed is dismally low.”
As for the required economic power, he highlighted to the challenges being posed by AI and robotics which will gradually nudge human labour out of the readymade garment industry. Remittance was still good, but this was limited by unskilled workers. Agriculture was doing good, but there was over-cropping. Balance of payment was good so far, but there was the possible debt trap ahead faced by mid-income countries. India, Malaysia and other countries were stuck in this rut.


In international relations, Bangladesh’s foreign policy had been able to keep good relations with the US, China and India. But the Rohingya issue posed as a big challenge. “We expected China to help out, but it didn’t. But then, China has its own interests.” He concluded, “We need to look to new friends, we can explore Europe. We need to invest in human resources, in technology transfer. And militarily, we need to develop minimum deterrent capacity at the least.”
Professor ASM Ali Ashraf of Dhaka University’s department of international relations said that during the Cold War the world was bipolar, with the US on one side and the Soviet Union on the other. Then after the 1990’s with the emergence of the world order at that time, there were aspirations for liberty, prosperity and so on. Then 9/11 happened and there was a global systemic transformation.


> We need to invest in our diplomatic energy to get other Asian countries on our side. The Ukraine refugee crisis will soon replace the Rohingya issue


Prof Ashraf ASM Ali Ashraf, Department of International Relations, Dhaka University
So what is the new world order? Are we living in a unipolar, bipolar or multipolar world? Raising these questions, the professor said, Ukraine has given a new meaning to all of this. There is a new kind of polarisation. The US is predominant in the NATO alliance. Meanwhile, Russia has managed to court the friendship of China and India.
He raised the implications of these dynamics for Bangladesh and how these external elements will constrain its interests. Also highlighting developments in the apparel industry and remittance, he said the challenge is to diversify export markets as well the labour markets. The expatriate labour now mostly consisted of low skilled workers like cleaners, domestic help and so on, and then there was the human rights issue too.


https://en.prothomalo.com/banglades...-media-accuses-US-of-destroying-international
About the Rohingya issue, he said, “We need to invest in our diplomatic energy to get other Asian countries on our side. The Ukraine refugee crisis will soon replace the Rohingya issue.”
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“Bangladesh is the leading provider of UN peacekeeping forces,” said Ali Ashraf, “but the peacekeeping missions are becoming increasingly risky, demanding use of force.” He went on, “Violent counter-terrorism has also been a major concern since the late nineties.”
He raised the question, how do we navigate? “We cast two votes in the United Nations General Assembly, abstaining once and voting in favour next. The first resolution was strongly worded because sovereignty is a cardinal order. Explaining Bangladesh’s stance taken in its national interests, the prime minister referred to the Rooppur power plant. Candidly, once the reactors are established, we will be dependent on Russia for this for the next 50 years,” he said.
The next resolution was humanitarian and there were valid reasons to side with a humanitarian resolution.


> All states have their own interests and there are no permanent friends. Bangladesh needs to develop key capabilities, minimum deterrence. We must reassess our alignments


Maj Gen ANM Muniruzzaman (retd), president, BIPSS
In conclusion, the professor said. “We need to strike a balance with the West, Russia, China and India. Geopolitical realities require pragmatism. It is important to uphold good governance, democracy and human rights.”

​Maj Gen Muniruzzaman, in his concluding remarks, noted that Bangladesh needed to strike a balance between the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and the Indo Pacific Strategy, two competing strategies of two different camps. A pragmatic approach was required.
He said, “All states have their own interests and there are no permanent friends. Bangladesh needs to develop key capabilities, minimum deterrence. We must reassess our alignments.”
The deliberations were followed by lively in-depth interaction, questions and comments from the participants of the event. Attending the event were senior diplomats of foreign missions in Bangladesh, retired civil and army bureaucrats, former ambassadors, academics, media persons, researchers, students and others.

*A lot of geopolitical turbulence.

Perhaps causing delays of MRCA procurement.*

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## Destranator

Yasser76 said:


> True, BAF have been talking of getting a 4.5th Gen fighter for 10 years now, in my opinion though I think that would be a mistake. To defend Bangladeshi skies from an intruder (from Myanamar or India) the flight times are so short and air space so small it may make a quick reaction alert unfeasable, the fighters may not get up in time, also India and others can easily strike BAF airfields from the safety of their own air space as Bangladesh is a relatively small country. What could a Typhoon/Gripen/Rafale realistically achieve? Unless you hade 4-6 on constant CAP during crisis which would be expensive and require a force of at least 36 planes.
> 
> I think a better solution would be to create a formidable air defence network which would make any attack very expensive for the aggressor, this could include anti cruise/ballistic missile defences. Concentrate just 5 high powered 3D radars (1 for each corner of the country and 1 for the coast) combine with either HQ-9, S-400 or THAAD, then during crisis you will have coverage over much of India and Myanamar, simply blow everything that moves out of the sky if anyone tries anything.
> 
> All the above can be supported with low/medium level SAMs such as HQ-16/Pantsir/Iron Dome for local defence of vital assets.
> 
> All the above will be cheaper and more effective then a few planes you can get in the air in time and also give any attacker a very big headache.


Simply put, ground based air defence systems cannot be an alternative to fighter jets especially in a geographically constrained location like Bangladesh.
While we need long range artillery, SRBMs and land/air/sea launched cruise missiles to disable enemy air bases and artillery, if the enemy fighter jets manage take off, ours need to scramble immediately to attempt to neutralise threats Beyond Visible Range. The enemy fighters cannot be allowed much dwell time in our airspace as it would increase the threat to our KPI's many folds.
Surface to Air Missiles are hardly reliable at longer ranges. The enemy fighters can choose to simply fly high, drop GPS guided and dumb bombs and scoot without having to engage our SAM batteries at all.

Bangladesh actually need hundreds of fighter jets, enough to overcome servicability issues and survive enemy bombardment. 150-200 Saab Gripen/J-10C with ToT + 32 EFTs would be perfect but not realistic given the imbecilic nature of BAF.

Don't get me wrong: SAMs are essential and must be procured in large quantities to ensure redundancies but they can only supplement and not replace fighter jets.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509770029885440001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'No relationship is sacrosanct'
> 
> 
> Two events in recent times have shaken the world and these are Covid and the conflict in Ukraine, said speakers at a roundtable organized jointly by BIPSS and Dhaka Tribune on Wednesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.prothomalo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh
> BIPSS-Dhaka Tribune roundtable​'No relationship is sacrosanct'​Staff Correspondent
> Dhaka
> Published: 31 Mar 2022, 01:46
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The advent of the Covid-19 pandemic and, more recently, the conflict in Ukraine, are the most visible highlights of the emerging world order. Along with the rise of new global powers, changing international equations seem to be leading to a possible new Cold War era. Smaller countries like Bangladesh can no longer sit back and watch as detached spectators. The time demands new negotiations and astute navigation.
> 
> 
> 
> Discussants brought up these issues at a roundtable organised jointly by BIPSS and Dhaka Tribune at a local hotel in the capital city on Wednesday. Titled ‘The Emerging World Order: How Will Bangladesh Negotiate’, the event was addressed by former foreign secretary Md Touhid Hossain and professor of international relations at Dhaka University, ASM Ali Ashraf and moderated by president of Bangladesh Institute of Peace and Security Studies (BIPSS) Major General ANM Muniruzzaman (retd).
> Advertisement
> 
> 
> “Two events in recent times have shaken the world,” ANM Muniruzzaman observed at the outset of the programme, “and these are Covid and the conflict in Ukraine. Small powers need to find their place in this emerging scenario, based on their national interests. It seems like Cold War 2.0 has arrived, on grounds of system of government -- democratic and autocratic systems.”
> Coming directly to the topic of the emerging world order, former foreign secretary Touhid Hossain raised the question – what are the changes that have shaped the order?
> Firstly, he said, there was the rise of China as a dominant and assertive world power. Then there was Covid-19. Apart from the health issues, it also brought to light that over dependence on China for goods can be dangerous. Ships weren’t moving at the time and things came to a standstill. “This should not happen and this is a lesson to be learnt,” he said.
> The next significant event that has contributed to shaping the world, Touhid Hossain pointed out, was the virtual defeat and retreat of the US from Afghanistan. “There is a different type of government in Afghanistan now. Whether it is recognised or not, it is there, a reality,” he said.
> Advertisement
> 
> The war in Ukraine was another flashpoint in the emerging circumstances and there are quite a few lessons to be learned in this case. Russia and Ukraine had such good relations, shared history, were so close culturally. So the lesson here is no relationship is sacrosanct. Also, a weaker country like Ukraine can withdraw support and Russian plans haven’t worked as they had wanted.
> An offshoot to this conflict is Germany, the former foreign secretary pointed out, elaborating that for 75 years Germany had been pacifist. Now, however, they have pushed their defence budget up to 2 per cent of the GDP.
> Coming to Bangladesh, Touhid Hossain said Bangladesh has come a long way over the past 50 years. Its exports alone cross 40 billion dollars annually. Even in the social sector strides have been made with gender parity in primary school enrollment and almost in secondary school enrollment too. But, he said, pointing to the downsides, democracy and human rights were regressing, according to indexes of reliable international institutions.
> As for relations with neighbours, he said, “Bangladesh had been able to maintain a balance in its good relations with China and India, though the two are hostile to one another. Bangladesh had tangibly uprooted insurgents of India’s northeastern states, provided India with transit access, but there is a general feeling that this has unfortunately not been reciprocated. Other irritants were India’s Citizen Amendment Act, the National Register for Citizens of Assam and so on, though the most sensitive was the killing of Bangladesh citizens on the border by India’s Border Security Force (BSF). It is said that Bangladesh-India relations have stood the test of time, but time is a continuous process.”
> 
> 
> Md Touhid Hossain, former foreign secretary
> He added that China was aware of Bangladesh’s relations with India, but China was pragmatic and understood the significance of these ties.
> About the challenges faced by Bangladesh at this juncture of global events, Touhid Hossain pointed to the advantage of the country’s demographic dividend, but also the skill shortage in human resources. “If you have to be an important player,” he said, “you need the skills and technology. Even our internet speed is dismally low.”
> As for the required economic power, he highlighted to the challenges being posed by AI and robotics which will gradually nudge human labour out of the readymade garment industry. Remittance was still good, but this was limited by unskilled workers. Agriculture was doing good, but there was over-cropping. Balance of payment was good so far, but there was the possible debt trap ahead faced by mid-income countries. India, Malaysia and other countries were stuck in this rut.
> 
> 
> In international relations, Bangladesh’s foreign policy had been able to keep good relations with the US, China and India. But the Rohingya issue posed as a big challenge. “We expected China to help out, but it didn’t. But then, China has its own interests.” He concluded, “We need to look to new friends, we can explore Europe. We need to invest in human resources, in technology transfer. And militarily, we need to develop minimum deterrent capacity at the least.”
> Professor ASM Ali Ashraf of Dhaka University’s department of international relations said that during the Cold War the world was bipolar, with the US on one side and the Soviet Union on the other. Then after the 1990’s with the emergence of the world order at that time, there were aspirations for liberty, prosperity and so on. Then 9/11 happened and there was a global systemic transformation.
> 
> Prof Ashraf ASM Ali Ashraf, Department of International Relations, Dhaka University
> So what is the new world order? Are we living in a unipolar, bipolar or multipolar world? Raising these questions, the professor said, Ukraine has given a new meaning to all of this. There is a new kind of polarisation. The US is predominant in the NATO alliance. Meanwhile, Russia has managed to court the friendship of China and India.
> He raised the implications of these dynamics for Bangladesh and how these external elements will constrain its interests. Also highlighting developments in the apparel industry and remittance, he said the challenge is to diversify export markets as well the labour markets. The expatriate labour now mostly consisted of low skilled workers like cleaners, domestic help and so on, and then there was the human rights issue too.
> 
> 
> https://en.prothomalo.com/banglades...-media-accuses-US-of-destroying-international
> About the Rohingya issue, he said, “We need to invest in our diplomatic energy to get other Asian countries on our side. The Ukraine refugee crisis will soon replace the Rohingya issue.”
> Advertisement
> 
> “Bangladesh is the leading provider of UN peacekeeping forces,” said Ali Ashraf, “but the peacekeeping missions are becoming increasingly risky, demanding use of force.” He went on, “Violent counter-terrorism has also been a major concern since the late nineties.”
> He raised the question, how do we navigate? “We cast two votes in the United Nations General Assembly, abstaining once and voting in favour next. The first resolution was strongly worded because sovereignty is a cardinal order. Explaining Bangladesh’s stance taken in its national interests, the prime minister referred to the Rooppur power plant. Candidly, once the reactors are established, we will be dependent on Russia for this for the next 50 years,” he said.
> The next resolution was humanitarian and there were valid reasons to side with a humanitarian resolution.
> 
> Maj Gen ANM Muniruzzaman (retd), president, BIPSS
> In conclusion, the professor said. “We need to strike a balance with the West, Russia, China and India. Geopolitical realities require pragmatism. It is important to uphold good governance, democracy and human rights.”
> 
> ​Maj Gen Muniruzzaman, in his concluding remarks, noted that Bangladesh needed to strike a balance between the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and the Indo Pacific Strategy, two competing strategies of two different camps. A pragmatic approach was required.
> He said, “All states have their own interests and there are no permanent friends. Bangladesh needs to develop key capabilities, minimum deterrence. We must reassess our alignments.”
> The deliberations were followed by lively in-depth interaction, questions and comments from the participants of the event. Attending the event were senior diplomats of foreign missions in Bangladesh, retired civil and army bureaucrats, former ambassadors, academics, media persons, researchers, students and others.
> 
> *A lot of geopolitical turbulence.
> 
> Perhaps causing delays of MRCA procurement.*


@F-6 enthusiast Read MAJ GEN Muniruzzaman's comments on the need for air power. He clearly understands the need for MRCA procurement.

This notion that a Joint Chief's of Staff's Committee would not benefit BAF is incorrect. Not all generals are dumb. While the committee would very likely still be dominated by BA, there will be more consideration provided to ensure balanced and integrated modernisation of the three forces.

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## Destranator

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/529751508584357





@F-6 enthusiast @BlindEagle @Avicenna

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/529751508584357
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-6 enthusiast @BlindEagle @Avicenna
> 
> View attachment 829624
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 829622


tired.

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## Bilal9

BlindEagle said:


> That sir is the cover photo of an ugly Bengali girl



No girl is ugly in their own mind.

Plus with makeup and some walking lessons with high-heels - you can transform a village girl in Bangladesh to Ms. Universe in no time flat.

Some of these girls in my thread used to work in apparel factories....and used to eat out of tin plates when growing up...

Watch after iftar if you don't want to make your Roza Maqrooh....









Bangladeshi Fashion


Aarong (Bangladesh Clothing outlet associated with the BRAC NGO) gets ready and festive for the 2021 Holiday season...



defence.pk





By the way @Avicenna bhai, who is the president of BIPSS Major General ANM Muniruzzaman (retd).?

I know he's a Bangladesh Army Guy but what is his angle and who is he shilling for?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/529751508584357
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-6 enthusiast @BlindEagle @Avicenna
> 
> View attachment 829624
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 829622


UPDATE: DEFSECA page either set to private or DELETED

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> @F-6 enthusiast Read MAJ GEN Muniruzzaman's comments on the need for air power. He clearly understands the need for MRCA procurement.


 Good. I hope this thought is subscribed by those serving not just the retired.



Bilal9 said:


> I know he's a Bangladesh Army Guy but what is his angle and who is he shilling for?


based on what he said , i think he is shilling for us.


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## BlindEagle

Bilal9 said:


> No girl is ugly in their own mind.
> 
> Plus with makeup and some walking lessons with high-heels - you can transform a village girl in Bangladesh to Ms. Universe in no time flat.
> 
> Some of these girls in my thread used to work in apparel factories....and used to eat out of tin plates when growing up...
> 
> Watch after iftar if you don't want to make your Roza Maqrooh....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladeshi Fashion
> 
> 
> Aarong (Bangladesh Clothing outlet associated with the BRAC NGO) gets ready and festive for the 2021 Holiday season...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way @Avicenna bhai, who is the president of BIPSS Major General ANM Muniruzzaman (retd).?
> 
> I know he's a Bangladesh Army Guy but what is his angle and who is he shilling for?


Bangladesh village girls are better than city ones. Atleast they’re kochi



Destranator said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/529751508584357
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-6 enthusiast @BlindEagle @Avicenna
> 
> View attachment 829624
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 829622


Will be funny if it ends up being f7 again 😂😂😂

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## Destranator

BlindEagle said:


> Will be funny if it ends up being f7 again 😂😂😂


China will bomb BD if we ask them to re-open the F-7 production line for the second time at this point when they are considering shutting the J-10 production line.
Honestly, they should just ram J-10's up BAF's a$$.

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## Tom-tom

Avicenna said:


> BAF is a basketcase.
> 
> Facts.



I kind of feel sorry for baf. If baf gets cutting edge fighters right now at this moment then u.s will see bdesh as a military asset and will pressure it to join the quad or some other alliance.


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## Bilal9

BlindEagle said:


> Bangladesh village girls are better than city ones. Atleast they’re kochi



Kochi or non-kochi they all come with their own set of problems. Vapid humid sobsister psychos....most of them.

All problems related to plumbing....

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## BlindEagle

Bilal9 said:


> Kochi or non-kochi they all come with their own set of problems. Vapid humid sobsister psychos....most of them.
> 
> All problems related to plumbing....


Without plumbing the oil pumps gets clogged up. Hence the issues.

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## Destranator

Mash'Allah! Congrats BAF!





__ https://www.facebook.com/1766281370346886/posts/2740196419622038

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Mash'Allah! Congrats BAF!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/1766281370346886/posts/2740196419622038



Iftar er jonno Mishty ready korbo naki?

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## SQ8

There really doesn’t seem to be any impetus from the BD government on equipping its air force beyond what they deem is the minimal to counter any threat from Myanmar.

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## Avicenna

SQ8 said:


> There really doesn’t seem to be any impetus from the BD government on equipping its air force beyond what they deem is the minimal to counter any threat from Myanmar.



It's likely a multifactorial problem.

Of course there are the changing geopolitical winds affecting many nations.

This, to no fault of the BAF or government of Bangladesh will complicate procurement decisions.

However, we likely can not dismiss the notion of an overall neutering of Bangladeshi military capability by internal Indian interests.

Both on the external and internal level.

There is likely corruption, and inter service rivalry as @Arthur noted on a previous post.

And I would further speculate further a lack of vision by decision makers.

Top that with a general docility of the Bangladeshi psyche and you get what we see.

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## SQ8

Avicenna said:


> It's likely a multifactorial problem.
> 
> Of course there are the changing geopolitical winds affecting many nations.
> 
> This, to no fault of the BAF or government of Bangladesh will complicate procurement decisions.
> 
> However, we likely can not dismiss the notion of an overall neutering of Bangladeshi military capability by internal Indian interests.
> 
> Both on the external and internal level.
> 
> There is likely corruption, and inter service rivalry as @Arthur noted on a previous post.
> 
> And I would further speculate further a lack of vision by decision makers.
> 
> Top that with a general docility of the Bangladeshi psyche and you get what we see.


The only reason you neuter a country is if you wish to keep them as a vassal state. 

The other reasons also could play into it but it is surprising since the BAF is carrying the same culture that the PAF does so one doesn’t expect the leadership to be laying down and not fighting for the service’s requirements. The recent C-130 acquisition does point to where benign gains are “allowed” by the government and any others that could really transform the force are not prioritized.

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## Avicenna

SQ8 said:


> The only reason you neuter a country is if you wish to keep them as a vassal state.
> 
> The other reasons also could play into it but it is surprising since the BAF is carrying the same culture that the PAF does so one doesn’t expect the leadership to be laying down and not fighting for the service’s requirements. The recent C-130 acquisition does point to where benign gains are “allowed” by the government and* any others that could really transform the force are not prioritized.*



Yeah, I mean its clear what India wants for the region.

And there are those in Bangladesh who are willing to go along. 

Bangladesh IS very much like a vassal state.

But again, Bangladesh isn't alone in being influenced by greater powers/regional behemoths.

As for the culture of BAF being common to that of PAF; I fear the damage has already been done.

BAF acts like its a shell of what it could have been.

I dunno how to reverse the rot.

I guess first there has to be a willingness to address it.

There are rumblings from some in social media or at least what the general public can see that refer to capability shortfalls, namely lack of a modern MRCA for BAF.

But for whatever reason, we are not seeing much in the way of addressing it.

What we DO see are procurements that don't really move the needle.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Mash'Allah! Congrats BAF!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/1766281370346886/posts/2740196419622038


man why you gotta do this me ? 
its not even april 1st 


anywho those birds are almost 200 million/unit with arms and packages. For comparison, Indonesian rafales cost around 189 million/unit +package

MRCA will cost some 187 million/unit + arms, training and logistics. Whomever can provide the best financing options will win (whenever that is ). I have a feeling its going to be _La France _ 🇫🇷

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> man why you gotta do this me ?
> its not even april 1st
> 
> 
> anywho those birds are almost 200 million/unit with arms and packages. For comparison, Indonesian rafales cost around 189 million/unit +package
> 
> MRCA will cost some 187 million/unit + arms, training and logistics. Whomever can provide the best financing options will win (whenever that is ). I have a feeling its going to be _La France _ 🇫🇷



It wouldn't shock me if it was US sourced.

Depends how receptive BD is gonna be.

If that's the case, then why not Super Hornet?

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> If that's the case, then why not Super Hornet?


(F-18) 18,000 USD/hour vs (F-16) 7000 USD/hour

Plus the Viper has a higher thrust to weight ratio, helps in climbing and BVR engagements.
The US is offering us F-16s and we should get them (with the C7/C8 AMRAAMs).


Avicenna said:


> Depends how receptive BD is gonna be.


Do you really think BD can say no to USA ?

It doesn't matter what BD thinks , *this is not a relationship of equals*
ppl underestimate how much the BAL officials love their sea-front properties in Canada.



This isn't Black and white , there are advantages and challenges.

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> (F-18) 18,000 USD/hour vs (F-16) 7000 USD/hour
> 
> Plus the Viper has a higher thrust to weight ratio, helps in climbing and BVR engagements.
> The US is offering us F-16s and we should get them (with the C7/C8 AMRAAMs).
> 
> Do you really think BD can say no to USA ?
> 
> It doesn't matter what BD thinks , *this is not a relationship of equals*
> ppl underestimate how much the BAL officials love their sea-front properties in Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't Black and white , there are advantages and challenges.



LOL.

Yeah you're right about that.

I kind of see the US/BD relationship as that of the mafia and local neighborhood grocery owner.

The US is gonna make an offer BD CAN'T refuse.

In terms of platforms for BAF.

I mean, if the maritime mission is so important and also considering BAF would likely be working with USN/USMC rather than USAF, wouldn't Super Hornets be the preferred choice?

As for AMRAAMS. 

I don't see BAF getting access to them.

Or at least the US may be very reluctant.

Or may offer older versions.

I can't imagine India would be pleased.

And we see how they cry about things like that.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Avicenna said:


> And we see how they cry about things like that.


the most insecure nation on earth , 





demand for antihypertensive medication in new dehli went up that day...



Avicenna said:


> Or at least the US may be very reluctant.
> 
> Or may offer older versions.


luckily they dont make air launched sparrows anymore.
plus i am not sure if the C5 is still in production. its all part of negotiations. 



Avicenna said:


> I can't imagine India would be pleased.


the alternative is BD buying Chinese jets. The USA will do whatever it feels necessary to protect its interests , even if it means temporarily upsetting its friends and allies.

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## Avicenna

US-Bangladesh prepare for comprehensive defence cooperation


The United States has intensified its diplomatic efforts with Bangladesh to provide the South Asian nation with a comprehensive defence package that incorporates the transfer




www.defseca.com





Can't copy it here but basically it's saying BAF is gonna buy 2 squadrons F-16V.

Plans have been shelved for Typhoon or Rafale. (For now)

Kinda makes sense to me actually.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> US-Bangladesh prepare for comprehensive defence cooperation
> 
> 
> The United States has intensified its diplomatic efforts with Bangladesh to provide the South Asian nation with a comprehensive defence package that incorporates the transfer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defseca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't copy it here but basically it's saying BAF is gonna buy 2 squadrons F-16V.
> 
> Plans have been shelved for Typhoon or Rafale. (For now)
> 
> Kinda makes sense to me actually.


Prioritising single engine makes sense but Gripen (room for ToT, efficient machine) and J-10C's (sanction proof) are the only logical options.


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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Prioritising single engine makes sense but Gripen (room for ToT, efficient machine) and J-10C's (sanction proof) are the only logical options.



Yup.

But Uncle Sam gets what he wants.

Also, the major issue here is gonna be what munitions are coming with it.

Need AMRAAM.

In any case man, 32 F-16V with AIM-9X and AMRAAM will be more than enough for Myanmar.

But the most important thing is access to US training.

This is key to getting the BAF to where it needs to be.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Yup.
> 
> But Uncle Sam gets what he wants.
> 
> Also, the major issue here is gonna be what munitions are coming with it.
> 
> Need AMRAAM.
> 
> In any case man, 32 F-16V with AIM-9X and AMRAAM will be more than enough for Myanmar.
> 
> But the most important thing is access to US training.
> 
> This is key to getting the BAF to where it needs to be.


If we are forced to buy F-16s, we must diversify and also buy Gripens. Not ideal but secure supplies trumps ease of maintenance.


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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> If we are forced to buy F-16s, we must diversify and also buy Gripens. Not ideal but secure supplies trumps ease of maintenance.



Nah that will never happen.

I can see an F-16/Rafale or F-16/Typhoon force.

I can not see an F-16/Gripen force.

Also, the US can just as easily disrupt a Gripen purchase given many components are American.


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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Nah that will never happen.
> 
> I can see an F-16/Rafale or F-16/Typhoon force.
> 
> I can not see an F-16/Gripen force.
> 
> Also, the US can just as easily disrupt a Gripen purchase given many components are American.


What I suggested was focused on the single engine segment only.
In the above scenario, getting 2 squadrons of EFT on top of F-16+Gripen would make sense once the single engine fleet is sorted.
When buying Gripens, BD would have to buy dozens of spare engines in bulk and mothball them so that come sanction time we can keep them flying. All other spares and ammunitions can be sourced from Europe. I do not see BD becoming rougue enough to see both the US and Europe sanctioning us is unison.

What I have described would be shrewd strategic moves - do not expect the BAF airheads to ever pull these off. Dumbfucks running the show are more keen on wasting time to enjoy job perks and retiring with full benefits over developing spines and resigning in protest.


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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> What I suggested was focused on the single engine segment only.
> In the above scenario, getting 2 squadrons of EFT on top of F-16+Gripen would make sense once the single engine fleet is sorted.
> When buying Gripens, BD would have to buy dozens of spare engines in bulk and mothball them so that come sanction time we can keep them flying. All other spares can be sourced from Europe.
> Now these would be shrewd strategic moves - do not expect the BAF airheads to ever pull these off.









A lot of US flags.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> View attachment 832163
> 
> 
> A lot of US flags.


Gripen bites the dust. 
F-16V + J10C + EFT it is for my proposed combo should the US force F-16 upon us.
Otherwise J-10C + EFT is the most logical combo.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Nah that will never happen.
> 
> I can see an F-16/Rafale or F-16/Typhoon force.
> 
> I can not see an F-16/Gripen force.
> 
> Also, the US can just as easily disrupt a Gripen purchase given many components are American.




I think we have had this discussion before.

Once the US has given approval for Sweden to export the engine to BD then that is their influence pretty much over.

Gripen can be armed with both the European Meteor and ASRAAM air-to-air missiles and Sweden is able to maintain the plane, including engine overhaul.

Think of it this way, the GE engine in the Gripen will last at least as long as the airframe and so unless the BAF wants to buy additional Gripens, the USA can be ruled out as a factor once the plane is in BD and flying with BAF.

While neither Gripen and F-16V are ideal, I would pick the Gripen any day of the week to maintain as much independence as possible for BD.


Gripen/F-16 combo makes no sense as they are both light fighters and from the West. BD needs to aim for something like Typhoon/J-10CE combo as this gives the best performance and strategic freedom.


PS - Other great thing about buying from Sweden is that BD can easily integrate with 2-3 Global Eye AWACS that may be the best system for it's size in the world.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> I think we have had this discussion before.
> 
> Once the US has given approval for Sweden to export the engine to BD then that is their influence pretty much over.
> 
> Gripen can be armed with both the European Meteor and ASRAAM air-to-air missiles and Sweden is able to maintain the plane, including engine overhaul.
> 
> Think of it this way, the GE engine in the Gripen will last at least as long as the airframe and so unless the BAF wants to buy additional Gripens, the USA can be ruled out as a factor once the plane is in BD and flying with BAF.
> 
> While neither Gripen and F-16V are ideal, I would pick the Gripen any day of the week to maintain as much independence as possible for BD.
> 
> 
> Gripen/F-16 combo makes no sense as they are both light fighters and from the West. BD needs to aim for something like Typhoon/J-10CE combo as this gives the best performance and strategic freedom.
> 
> 
> PS - Other great thing about buying from Sweden is that BD can easily integrate with 2-3 Global Eye AWACS that may be the best system for it's size in the world.



Yeah man.

At this point, BAF buys either F-16V or Gripen E and I'm breaking out the:






At least 2 squadrons of either would be significant.

Again the key is gonna be getting access to the appropriate munitions to utilize them fully.

AMRAAM or Meteor. (I'm thinking AMRAAM is much cheaper)

Not to mention the full spectrum of A2G gear.

And of course, the opening of access to the types of training BAF needs to rejuvenate itself.

Bangladesh MUST understand the importance of the role of air power the way Pakistan has.

Otherwise Bangladesh will always be at the mercy of the whims of its neighbors.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Yeah man.
> 
> At this point, BAF buys either F-16V or Gripen E and I'm breaking out the:
> 
> View attachment 832497
> 
> 
> At least 2 squadrons of either would be significant.
> 
> Again the key is gonna be getting access to the appropriate munitions to utilize them fully.
> 
> AMRAAM or Meteor. (I'm thinking AMRAAM is much cheaper)
> 
> Not to mention the full spectrum of A2G gear.
> 
> And of course, the opening of access to the types of training BAF needs to rejuvenate itself.
> 
> Bangladesh MUST understand the importance of the role of air power the way Pakistan has.
> 
> Otherwise Bangladesh will always be at the mercy of the whims of its neighbors.



Meteor price is similar to the AIM-120D which is similar in terms of capability.
AIM-120C is cheaper but it is an inferior missile to both.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> Meteor price is similar to the AIM-120D which is similar in terms of capability.
> AIM-120C is cheaper but it is an inferior missile to both.



I can't see Bangladesh getting D access.

I'd be surprised frankly with C-5 even.

They may attempt to limit it at Sidewinders and Sparrows.

Which Bangladesh absolutely should not accept.

Similar to situation with Iraq.









Iraq's F-16s Have A Cool Paint Job But Antiquated Weapons


Post-Saddam Iraq's first tactical fighter aircraft has taken flight. Lockheed flew the Block 52 F-16D for the first time just a couple days ago, and deliveries of the first batch of four jets are said to be just a couple months away. It looks great, but...




jalopnik.com





If that's the case, Bangladesh should just grab its balls and go after Meteor with whatever Eurocanard.

And maybe this may be the rationale to acquire Rafale with at least MICAs.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I can't see Bangladesh getting D access.
> 
> I'd be surprised frankly with C-5 even.
> 
> They may attempt to limit it at Sidewinders and Sparrows.
> 
> Which Bangladesh absolutely should not accept.
> 
> Similar to situation with Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq's F-16s Have A Cool Paint Job But Antiquated Weapons
> 
> 
> Post-Saddam Iraq's first tactical fighter aircraft has taken flight. Lockheed flew the Block 52 F-16D for the first time just a couple days ago, and deliveries of the first batch of four jets are said to be just a couple months away. It looks great, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jalopnik.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that's the case, Bangladesh should just grab its balls and go after Meteor with whatever Eurocanard.





USA is just a very bad route to go down for so many reasons.


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> USA is just a very bad route to go down for so many reasons.



Yea I mean I agree there are ALOT of cons.

The level of attention BD has received from the US in the recent past makes me really uneasy.

But at the same time, like I said before it's a mafia like relationship with smaller countries like BD.

And there ARE some benefits.

For the BAF, if played correctly, it can really jumpstart a rejuvenation of the force.

The alternative is to continue to buy Russian and Chinese platforms.

And continue to be ceremonial force rather than an operational one.


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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Yea I mean I agree there are ALOT of cons.
> 
> The level of attention BD has received from the US in the recent past makes me really uneasy.
> 
> But at the same time, like I said before it's a mafia like relationship with smaller countries like BD.
> 
> And there ARE some benefits.
> 
> For the BAF, if played correctly, it can really jumpstart a rejuvenation of the force.
> 
> The alternative is to continue to buy Russian and Chinese platforms.
> 
> And continue to be ceremonial force rather than an operational one.


I say bite the bullet for EFT/F16 combo....

Let the navy be chinese and the BA armed with turkish and chinese stuff until we raise up our military industrial base.... we could do a lot worse...

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Otherwise J-10C + EFT is the most logical combo.


J-10C + rafale that's the sanctions proof combo. I don't we can trust the Germans. they would block spares+ammo in the event of war with Mm. Plus we don't have the financial clout of Saudi Arabia.
either case, we will have to spend extra money to develop our own tactical air datalink system. The french might be more lenient on this issue than the EU+UK. (IAF integration of Rafale with S-400). In a way it makes sense to get two western origin fighter types.



UKBengali said:


> Think of it this way, the GE engine in the Gripen will last at least as long as the airframe and so unless the BAF wants to buy additional Gripens, the USA can be ruled out as a factor once the plane is in BD and flying with BAF.


yeah western engines have almost double the operating hours (before necessary overhaul) when compared to their russian counterparts. plus western countries cant produce engines out of thin air in the even of a conflict, it probably takes months by which time the conflict will be over.
* imo this highlights the need for MRO facilities (for engine and airframe maintenance) to be set up in BD*.



Avicenna said:


> Not to mention the full spectrum of A2G gear.


ideally we should get ToT for basic LGB (prefferably from Turkey) and integrate it to our fighters, its not the most complex technology.
i hope BD doesn't cheap out (lets be honest, they will) when buying the weapon's package for the fighters.

i read somewhere that the US has proposed to fund defence purchases for BD under low interest loans. this may be subject to congressional+state dept approval ?
Frankly, we should pay out of our own pocket.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> J-10C + rafale that's the sanctions proof combo. I don't we can trust the Germans. they would block spares+ammo in the event of war with Mm. Plus we don't have the financial clout of Saudi Arabia.
> either case, we will have to spend extra money to develop our own tactical air datalink system. The french might be more lenient on this issue than the EU+UK. (IAF integration of Rafale with S-400). In a way it makes sense to get two western origin fighter types.
> 
> 
> yeah western engines have almost double the operating hours (before necessary overhaul) when compared to their russian counterparts. plus western countries cant produce engines out of thin air in the even of a conflict, it probably takes months by which time the conflict will be over.
> * imo this highlights the need for MRO facilities (for engine and airframe maintenance) to be set up in BD*.
> 
> 
> ideally we should get ToT for basic LGB (prefferably from Turkey) and integrate it to our fighters, its not the most complex technology.
> i hope BD doesn't cheap out (lets be honest, they will) when buying the weapon's package for the fighters.


The main problem with Rafale is that India is likely to become the largest operator once they complete their MMRCA procurement program. Being the largest customer, they could have leverage over the French.

I prefer Eurofighter as:

it is overall superior performance wise
India does not operate it
BD-UK warm relationship
One way of bypassing German embrgo would be to procure German spares in large quantities in advance. Mind you this "no weapon export to conflict zones" is a charade German politicians put up only to impress their constituents. They have made exceptions in the past. German govt would be more than happy to sell spares in advance so that they can both support their industry while also leave room for future charades.

Having said all that, Eurofighters or Rafales, BD cannot afford to buy enough of either to make them the backbone of BAF. We can afford two squadrons at most which would form a strategic air superiority group to take control of the sky, buying time for single engine fighters to come in and complete the clean up.

The backbone would have to be a single engine fighter.
Whatever forms the backbone will have to endure the full length of the conflict through MRO and local production and assembly of spares.

I am not aware of any precedence of China refusing to supply spares when there is conflict between their customers so J-10C is the safest choice.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Kharap Foa said:


> I'm not against it, I mean hell, I'll be up for anything as long as BAF gets something.
> 
> 
> 
> Plus even If uncle Sam doesn't give us a the full weapons package, we have Turkey for that.
> 
> 
> Even 32 to 48 F-16 are enough
> 
> 
> 
> Enough for monkeys anyway
> 
> 
> 
> And if MRCA also comes by 2026 - 28... Oh boy, our enemies are in for a total restructuring of their 'designs' and 'plans' for Bangladesh


only the Rafale with the meteor can stop this beast.
F-16V > Su-30, Mirage2000, Mig-29 , Jaguar

the less said about russian junk, the better.

some of them could be based on lalmonirhat airbase (undergoing expansion) not too far from hashimara airbase (marked with an X) in the chicken's neck. the short distances could mean that the AIM-120C8 would be on a level playing field with the meteor.

Not to mention Sylhet airbase to cover the northeast. The IAF has stretched its resources far and wide to face two opponents.









Kharap Foa said:


> And if MRCA also comes by 2026 - 28... Oh boy, our enemies are in for a total restructuring of their 'designs' and 'plans' for Bangladesh


MRCA + F-16 will be formidable.


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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> The main problem with Rafale is that India is likely to become the largest operator once they complete their MMRCA procurement program. Being the largest customer, they could have leverage over the French.


a dollar from BD is just as good as a dollar from India, granted they have more of it than us and more mouths to feed. The largest customer is the UAE.
rafale isn't India's poitrik shompotti as much as people like to believe. And most importantly, the EFT is just more expensive



Destranator said:


> One way bypassing German embrgo would be to procure German spares in large quantities in advance.


that would require more money that the gov isn't willing to allocate.


Destranator said:


> India does not operate it


we could learn the ins and outs of the rafle too.


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## Valar.

Destranator said:


> The main problem with Rafale is that India is likely to become the largest operator once they complete their MMRCA procurement program. Being the largest customer, they could have leverage over the French.



1. French are known for selling arms to both sides of rivalry
2. To utilize that 'leverage', India first needs to consider BD as a rival and then convince France of the same. 

I mean wth they are gonna tell French, hey BD is our best buddy, everything is hunky dory between us but we don't like you selling weapons to them because we feel threatened?


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## Destranator

Valar. said:


> 1. French are known for selling arms to both sides of rivalry
> 2. To utilize that 'leverage', India first needs to consider BD as a rival and then convince France of the same.
> 
> I mean wth they are gonna tell French, hey BD is our best buddy, everything is hunky dory between us but we don't like you selling weapons to them because we feel threatened?


I am specifically referring to the scenario where BD and India are already in conflict or at the cusp of starting one. India may be able to leverage the French into stopping supplying spares to BD. The French may cave to their biggest customer.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> a dollar from BD is just as good as a dollar from India, granted they have more of it than us and more mouths to feed. The largest customer is the UAE.
> rafale isn't India's poitrik shompotti as much as people like to believe. And most importantly, the EFT is just more expensive
> 
> 
> that would require more money that the gov isn't willing to allocate.
> 
> we could learn the ins and outs of the rafle too.


Look, I don't mind Rafales, I just think EFT is a better choice for the reasons I have detailed in earlier posts.
However, I want to reiterate that the single engine fleet will ultimately determine BAF's readiness for war.
EFT's/Rafales would only play a limited role during prolonged conflict as we would not have many of them flying.

Getting anything is superior to BAF's current state of NoFighter Buffoons.

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## F-6 enthusiast

some years ago


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## mb444

USA cleares sale of 8 F16 block 70 to bulgaria for $1.6bn. It includes full weapons package with AIM-120c and training.

Realistically so $200m a piece for a Nato ally, for BD it would cost more. EFT would cost less and is a higher category fighter and J10 with weapons package would cost probably $100m a piece at most.

I just dont see how F16 realistically can be bought. It does not serve the purpose of the high in the high/low mix and way way to expensive as the low....

We are likely to sign a deal for 8-12 EFT with option of further 4. We wont be able to afford more.

This then leaves the door open for J10 or JFT. Nothing else is cheap enough for our budget.... at the very least we need a full sqd of these.

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## AMG_12

Lost interest in our Pakistani military so here I am. Will also invite Sir @Imran Khan to assess BAF.

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## F-6 enthusiast

These tin cans still in flying condition 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512996174990811139

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## Avicenna

Upgraded Mig-29BM.








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510914045599432704

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## Imran Khan

AMG_12 said:


> Lost interest in our Pakistani military so here I am. Will also invite Sir @Imran Khan to assess BAF.


yeah we bangladeshis will buy rafale now

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## Maula Jatt

Imran Khan said:


> yeah we bangladeshis will buy rafale now


🇧🇩🇧🇩🇧🇩🇧🇩 Humara sonaar bangla pride

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## Imran Khan

Sainthood 101 said:


> 🇧🇩🇧🇩🇧🇩🇧🇩 Humara sonaar bangla pride


we will buy rafale and teach lesson to MYM IND with two front war

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## Destranator

AMG_12 said:


> Lost interest in our Pakistani military so here I am. Will also invite Sir @Imran Khan to assess BAF.


That's very unfair towards PAF and PN. You're disappointment should be specifically directed towards band Bajwa and his crew.
PAF in particular is the most efficient, bang for buck air force in the region and perhaps the whole world (money spent vs capabilities). 
PA is the exact opposite.


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## Imran Khan

Avicenna said:


> Upgraded Mig-29BM.
> 
> 
> View attachment 833107
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510914045599432704


wow look more sexy then stupid F-16block 52

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> Upgraded Mig-29BM.
> 
> 
> View attachment 833107
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510914045599432704


Who the hell designs colour schemes for BAF? Was he born retarded or just colour blind?
🤮

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> Who the hell designs colour schemes for BAF? Was he born retarded or just colour blind?
> 🤮



The inmates are running the asylum. Just an inkling showing the actual rot.

Semi-educated mofussil a$$holes running the armed forces living on Gareebon-ka-huq loot-lenewala daulat.

Easy Money and the celebration of low-life incompetence.

Perfect recipes for takeover by the Quad.

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> The inmates are running the asylum. Just an inkling showing the actual rot.
> 
> Semi-educated mofussil a$$holes running the armed forces living on Gareebon-ka-huq loot-lenewala daulat.
> 
> Easy Money and the celebration of low-life incompetence.
> 
> Perfect recipes for takeover by the Quad.


BAF would drag QUAD down. They are more likely to be taken over by DHL or Uber.

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## mb444

Destranator said:


> Who the hell designs colour schemes for BAF? Was he born retarded or just colour blind?
> 🤮


Probably to serve BAF topmost priority.... to have an aerobatics display team.

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## F-6 enthusiast

😭

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## Destranator

__ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/536915691201272






Now this is actually an idea worth pondering on.
It seems likely that the US will shove something down our throats. Instead of letting them hamstring our single engine fleet (which will form the backbone of currently spineless BAF) with F-16s, we can consider getting Super Hornets from them.

Benefits of getting Super Hornets:

Gets the US off our backs. We can then buy single engine fighters from a more reliable supplier.
Uses the same engine as Gripens. Provides more justification for procuring Gripens with ToT.
A deadly maritime strike fighter.
Super Hornets cost less than $100 million per unit and can be manufactured quicker than Eurofighters and Rafales. We can buy more and get them quicker.
@Avicenna @F-6 enthusiast @Arthur @mb444 @leonblack08

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## mb444

Hornets would be a great choice...i still think that EFT is better but if we end up with F18 i would be pleased.

I agree we can not afford F16 as our single engine jets... for this i see only J10 or JFT as potentials.


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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/536915691201272
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now this is actually an idea worth pondering on.
> It seems likely that the US will shove something down our throats. Instead of letting them hamstring our single engine fleet (which will form the backbone of currently spineless BAF) with F-16s, we can consider getting Super Hornets from them.
> 
> Benefits of getting Super Hornets:
> 
> Gets the US off our backs. We can then buy single engine fighters from a more reliable supplier.
> Uses the same engine as Gripens. Provides more justification for procuring Gripens with ToT.
> A deadly maritime strike fighter.
> Super Hornets cost less than $100 million per unit and can be manufactured quicker than Eurofighters and Rafales. We can buy more and get them quicker.
> @Avicenna @F-6 enthusiast @Arthur @mb444 @leonblack08



You didn't mention the main advantage.

Damn things have mechanical parts (from undercarriage, suspension to armament carrying capability) that are bulletproof. After all, they are carrier ops certified and perfect for marine strike as designed, like you said.

F-16's are delicate hanger beauties in comparison. For Bangladesh F-18's are very appropriate.

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## Destranator

Bilal9 said:


> You didn't mention the main advantage.
> 
> Damn things have mechanical parts (from undercarriage, suspension to armament carrying capability) that are bulletproof. After all, they are carrier ops certified and perfect for marine strike as designed, like you said.
> 
> F-16's are delicate hanger beauties in comparison. For Bangladesh F-18's are very appropriate.


If we end up getting dragged into QUAD, we can easily land on their carriers. 

On a serious note, we should look into setting up more forward operating bases on coastal islands including St Martins. The extender air cover will help BN project power immensely.

If we end up getting Super Hornets, might aw well order C-130 based refuellers too to support maritime ops. The US should be satisfied enough with such purchases while we get some durable equipment.

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## Bilal9

Destranator said:


> On a serious note, we should look into setting up more forward operating bases on coastal islands including St Martins. The extender air cover will help BN project power immensely.



Exactly. We should set up FAB's on some of the islands near St. Martins. Just like China did in the Diaoyou Islands.

Although CXB expansion is already going full force.

This is why the savages tried to "invade" St. Martins back in the day.

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## Destranator

Destranator said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/110131083879737/posts/536915691201272
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now this is actually an idea worth pondering on.
> It seems likely that the US will shove something down our throats. Instead of letting them hamstring our single engine fleet (which will form the backbone of currently spineless BAF) with F-16s, we can consider getting Super Hornets from them.
> 
> Benefits of getting Super Hornets:
> 
> Gets the US off our backs. We can then buy single engine fighters from a more reliable supplier.
> Uses the same engine as Gripens. Provides more justification for procuring Gripens with ToT.
> A deadly maritime strike fighter.
> Super Hornets cost less than $100 million per unit and can be manufactured quicker than Eurofighters and Rafales. We can buy more and get them quicker.
> @Avicenna @F-6 enthusiast @Arthur @mb444 @leonblack08


5. We could buy used Super Hornets that are in good condition to augment the fleet.

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## Arthur

@Destranator Much better option than F16, I would say. For single engine segment, Vipers are overpriced. Doesn't fit in the high low mix for BAF. Super Hornets are great strike platform. 
I would say buy the Hornets as tip of the spear and go for J-10 as backbone of the fleet.

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## UKBengali

Guys,

I think we are being naive if we think buying Super Hornets would get USA “off our backs”.

If the US wants to force fighters down BD throats then the only reason is control, and so they need to make sure that BD buys exclusively from them or at least fighters from countries like Sweden where they can retain some control.

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## F-6 enthusiast

*List of AF Equipment that can be purchased from US. (1/?) *

Lots of discussion here about US arms restrictions and controls particularly about fighters. its been debated to death here.
BD may sign GSOMIA in the near future. We'll have to buy something from them (this belongs in the politics section)

As @Destranator suggested , maybe non-offensive and logistics aircraft (both rotary and fixed wing) can be purchased.

please note price figures vary from country to country as a result of prior (or lack of ) experience operating ac , training ,support and armament packages

Let's start with the C-130J
Flyaway cost at 62 million new
~130 million or more for everything else
IAF purchase was 200 million/unit




BAF already operates the type, saving on training and logistics. MRO plant will be established soon.
BAF already got some ex-RAF frames at a discount. BAF should get the rest (8) airframes after MLU.

have i mentioned these can be used in UN ops ? or to take delivery of vaccines ? its usefulness is not limited to military. 





__





Wayback Machine






web.archive.org












C-130J Super Hercules: India’s Workhorse | ADU MEDIA


History was made in India and the defense industry when in 2008, the Government of India announced its purchase of six C-130J Super Hercules.




www.aviation-defence-universe.com





pls add more suggestions @Destranator

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## F-6 enthusiast

*MH-60R (Anti-Sub warfare helos) 






Cost : *variable (67-109 million USD all inclusive)
There has been some global interest in MH-60R helicopters in recent months. In April, the U.S. approved the sale of 24 Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk helicopters to India at an estimated cost of $2.6 billion, and in July approved the sale to Greece of up to seven Seahawks along with weapons and other equipment at an estimated cost of $600 million.

The U.S. State Department approved the sale to South Korea of 12 Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk multi-role helicopters at an estimated cost of $800 million

ideally they should be able to fit in the hangers of the upcoming frigates.




cost per hour and availability.








https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/rms/documents/mh-60/8487_MH-60R_SellSheet_Read.pdf

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> *List of AF Equipment that can be purchased from US. (1/?) *
> 
> Lots of discussion here about US arms restrictions and controls particularly about fighters. its been debated to death here.
> BD may sign GSOMIA in the near future. We'll have to buy something from them (this belongs in the politics section)
> 
> As @Destranator suggested , maybe non-offensive and logistics aircraft (both rotary and fixed wing) can be purchased.
> 
> please note price figures vary from country to country as a result of prior (or lack of ) experience operating ac , training ,support and armament packages
> 
> Let's start with the C-130J
> Flyaway cost at 62 million new
> ~130 million or more for everything else
> IAF purchase was 200 million/unit
> View attachment 836840
> 
> BAF already operates the type, saving on training and logistics. MRO plant will be established soon.
> BAF already got some ex-RAF frames at a discount. BAF should get the rest (8) airframes after MLU.
> 
> have i mentioned these can be used in UN ops ? or to take delivery of vaccines ? its usefulness is not limited to military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wayback Machine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C-130J Super Hercules: India’s Workhorse | ADU MEDIA
> 
> 
> History was made in India and the defense industry when in 2008, the Government of India announced its purchase of six C-130J Super Hercules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aviation-defence-universe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pls add more suggestions @Destranator


Anything that is not strategic or does not require too much ongoing maintenance and spares support from the US.

The US invests a lot in R&D of infantry. We should try getting all sorts of modern infantry equipment with or without ToT. Assault rifles, machine guns, comms and navigation equipment, rucksacks, light breathable armour, Advanced Combat Helmets, latest NVG's, boots - you name it.

Given the difficult terrain and poor road infrastructure in Bangladesh, land battle will mostly be on the foot. Instead of buying useless tanks, we should try to modernise our infantry fast and try getting closer to US Infantry standards.

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## Zabaniyah

Destranator said:


> The main problem with Rafale is that India is likely to become the largest operator once they complete their MMRCA procurement program. Being the largest customer, they could have leverage over the French.
> 
> I prefer Eurofighter as:
> 
> it is overall superior performance wise
> India does not operate it
> BD-UK warm relationship
> One way of bypassing German embrgo would be to procure German spares in large quantities in advance. Mind you this "no weapon export to conflict zones" is a charade German politicians put up only to impress their constituents. They have made exceptions in the past. German govt would be more than happy to sell spares in advance so that they can both support their industry while also leave room for future charades.
> 
> Having said all that, Eurofighters or Rafales, BD cannot afford to buy enough of either to make them the backbone of BAF. We can afford two squadrons at most which would form a strategic air superiority group to take control of the sky, buying time for single engine fighters to come in and complete the clean up.
> 
> The backbone would have to be a single engine fighter.
> Whatever forms the backbone will have to endure the full length of the conflict through MRO and local production and assembly of spares.
> 
> I am not aware of any precedence of China refusing to supply spares when there is conflict between their customers so J-10C is the safest choice.



European aircraft are extremely expensive. Most of them manufacture in small quantities and could never match that with their American or even Russian counterparts. I am not certain if the money would be worth it. And the French are not trustworthy (that's why they don't have many customers). American weapons like the F-16 would provide better value for money. Then, gradually go toward F-35's if money and diplomacy allows. Both are single-engine aircraft.

One issue is ToT which most Western countries are very restrictive about. The only Western-origin aircraft that they do easily provide ToT is the Gripen for which Brazil got a good deal out of. 

On the Chinese side, they cannot produce enough to meet domestic demand. Pakistan is the first foreign country to operate the J-10C due to their warm relations and shared interests including outstanding issues with India. From what I gather, the Chinese are fairly liberal when it comes to some ToT in let's say missiles. But buying Chinese weapons would be subject to scrutiny, particularly from India. The first thing they'll do is that they'll run to Washington and start complaining which can lead to rogue variables in Bangladesh's equation. This even though QUAD has its internal fractures with India in particular. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that the U.S. is growing increasingly frustrated with India. Size is not everything. 

The U.S. being the largest investor in Bangladesh and a large part of our export earnings coming from there, our security should align with that while maintaining our sovereignty. We also need to prove that we are capable of handling our own affairs and maintaining amicable relations with neighbors.

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## UKBengali

Zabaniyah said:


> European aircraft are extremely expensive. Most of them manufacture in small quantities and could never match that with their American or even Russian counterparts. I am not certain if the money would be worth it. And the French are not trustworthy (that's why they don't have many customers). American weapons like the F-16 would provide better value for money. Then, gradually go toward F-35's if money and diplomacy allows. Both are single-engine aircraft.
> 
> One issue is ToT which most Western countries are very restrictive about. The only Western-origin aircraft that they do easily provide ToT is the Gripen for which Brazil got a good deal out of.
> 
> On the Chinese side, they cannot produce enough to meet domestic demand. Pakistan is the first foreign country to operate the J-10C due to their warm relations and shared interests including outstanding issues with India. From what I gather, the Chinese are fairly liberal when it comes to some ToT in let's say missiles. But buying Chinese weapons would be subject to scrutiny, particularly from India. The first thing they'll do is that they'll run to Washington and start complaining which can lead to rogue variables in Bangladesh's equation. This even though QUAD has its internal fractures with India in particular. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that the U.S. is growing increasingly frustrated with India. Size is not everything.
> 
> The U.S. being the largest investor in Bangladesh and a large part of our export earnings coming from there, our security should align with that while maintaining our sovereignty. We also need to prove that we are capable of handling our own affairs and maintaining amicable relations with neighbors.





Good post and welcome back!

Couple of issues with your post though....

While European aircraft are expensive BD economy is just getting stronger and stronger. Economic size has surpassed 400 billion US dollars and growth is expected to go back to 7-8% range for the medium term again.

As for French aircraft sales, that has completely changed over the last 1-2 years. The Rafale at the last count has around 250 firm export orders from countries such as India, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Greece and even Indonesia.


While the Chinese J-10CE is available and would be an excellent competitive fighter to face off against Indian Rafale, yes it would make the Indians nervous and they would run off to Washington and complain and BD could do without angering the Indians and potentially causing a headache to USA, where in excess of 10 billion US dollars of BD exports will go this fiscal.

I think the best buy at this time will be a purchase of 16 Mk.2 Eurofighters from the UK that would be more than sufficient to take on the whole of the MAF. India can wait till later on this decade as it is no realistic threat right now.

Buying fighter aircraft from the USA would mean alignment with USA foreign policy - i.e. anti-China which BD should never go down that route.


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## Destranator

Zabaniyah said:


> European aircraft are extremely expensive. Most of them manufacture in small quantities and could never match that with their American or even Russian counterparts. I am not certain if the money would be worth it. And the French are not trustworthy (that's why they don't have many customers). American weapons like the F-16 would provide better value for money. Then, gradually go toward F-35's if money and diplomacy allows. Both are single-engine aircraft.
> 
> One issue is ToT which most Western countries are very restrictive about. The only Western-origin aircraft that they do easily provide ToT is the Gripen for which Brazil got a good deal out of.
> 
> On the Chinese side, they cannot produce enough to meet domestic demand. Pakistan is the first foreign country to operate the J-10C due to their warm relations and shared interests including outstanding issues with India. From what I gather, the Chinese are fairly liberal when it comes to some ToT in let's say missiles. But buying Chinese weapons would be subject to scrutiny, particularly from India. The first thing they'll do is that they'll run to Washington and start complaining which can lead to rogue variables in Bangladesh's equation. This even though QUAD has its internal fractures with India in particular. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that the U.S. is growing increasingly frustrated with India. Size is not everything.
> 
> The U.S. being the largest investor in Bangladesh and a large part of our export earnings coming from there, our security should align with that while maintaining our sovereignty. We also need to prove that we are capable of handling our own affairs and maintaining amicable relations with neighbors.


The single engine fighters will remain BAF's backbone - we cannot let this segment get tangled up in American red tape. The US House of Rep goes through elections every two years meaning the House committees that approve FMS are re-schuffled frequently. Any rouge member from these committees can throw our supply chain into disarray at any point in time.

I completely acknowledge the importance of maintaining good relations with the US which is why I have come up with the "Scapegoat Theory" - I propose we scapegoat the twin engine/maritime strike segment by getting a squadron or two of Super Hornets - the US is desperately looking for foreign buyers to keep this program alive. It is a win-win - the US is happy which paves way for their no objection to us getting Gripens with ToT.
While not ideal maintenance wise, we can then look into supplement Gripens with J-10C to keep India in check. We should start by testing waters by making loud proclamations about "considering J-10C's" and observing US reaction (fcuk India and their "concerns") . If the US remains silent, we should go ahead with procuring J-10Cs.

The ideal fighter jet composition would look something this:

16-32 F/A -18 Block III's
32-64 Gripen E/F's
16-32 J-10C's

Disclaimer: The above is how an air force with brain cells to rub together would think. Don't expect BAF to pull this off.

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## Indos

UKBengali said:


> Good post and welcome back!
> 
> Couple of issues with your post though....
> 
> While European aircraft are expensive BD economy is just getting stronger and stronger. Economic size has surpassed 400 billion US dollars and growth is expected to go back to 7-8% range for the medium term again.
> 
> As for French aircraft sales, that has completely changed over the last 1-2 years. The Rafale at the last count has around 250 firm export orders from countries such as India, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Greece and even Indonesia.



Indonesia only order 6 planes for Rafale F3R and our planning minister is only agreed on another 6-8 Rafale planes for the rest of Jokowi final term. So it will be likely about 1 squadron ( 12-14 planes ). Regardless of that the order of another 6-8 Rafale needs Finance Ministry approval which until Today there is no news about whether another order will be made or not....

There is no F 15 EX acquisition planning either from Ministry of Planning ( according to Indonesian respected source )

Look like as I hope, Indonesia will depend more on KF21/IFX inshaAllah...........

This is about week ago, during Defense SOE Holding event where Jokowi is present

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> Any rouge member from these committees can throw our supply chain into disarray at any point in time.


Not to mention the senate which is overwhelmingly more influential in these decisions.



Destranator said:


> observing US reaction


maybe we are already testing the waters with the Mi-28 Deal and the abstention vote.




Destranator said:


> 16-32 F/A -18 Block III's
> 32-64 Gripen E/F's
> 16-32 J-10C's


why not 2 squadrons of Rafale F4 and 3 squadrons of J-10C
this opens the door to integration with the HQ-9 air defence system, not possible or very unlikely with EFT/F-16/F-18/Gripen due the manufacturers of these types being wedded into the NATO system seemingly to a higher degree than _La France 🇫🇷_

plus J-10C are cheaper , i cant think of Gov allocating enough money to two different western origin fighter types, my thoughts.

The thing about Sweden is that they are more likely to sanction BD than the USA and they cannot give us a UN security council vote if needed.

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## Zabaniyah

UKBengali said:


> Good post and welcome back!
> 
> Couple of issues with your post though....
> 
> While European aircraft are expensive BD economy is just getting stronger and stronger. Economic size has surpassed 400 billion US dollars and growth is expected to go back to 7-8% range for the medium term again.
> 
> As for French aircraft sales, that has completely changed over the last 1-2 years. The Rafale at the last count has around 250 firm export orders from countries such as India, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Greece and even Indonesia.
> 
> 
> While the Chinese J-10CE is available and would be an excellent competitive fighter to face off against Indian Rafale, yes it would make the Indians nervous and they would run off to Washington and complain and BD could do without angering the Indians and potentially causing a headache to USA, where in excess of 10 billion US dollars of BD exports will go this fiscal.
> 
> I think the best buy at this time will be a purchase of 16 Mk.2 Eurofighters from the UK that would be more than sufficient to take on the whole of the MAF. India can wait till later on this decade as it is no realistic threat right now.
> 
> Buying fighter aircraft from the USA would mean alignment with USA foreign policy - i.e. anti-China which BD should never go down that route.



If I am not mistaken, not all of those Rafales were produced new, some were off the shelf (meaning used). Dassault is a small manufacturer, and 250 orders for half a dozen countries is rather dismal.

Myanmar is presently facing a severe liquidity crisis. They do not have enough foreign currency reserves to run their country. Going to an arms race with any country would slowly but surely bankrupt them. They buy ballistic missiles from North Korea and that is sufficient reason to impose even more sanctions against their junta. To attain victory, one must cripple an opponent economically. And yet our esteemed diplomats are not raising this issue in Washington due to some 'friendship to all and malice to none' policy. This policy was set many years ago which may have been applicable in that time period. But today demands a different approach. Appeasement did not prevent WWII.

Numbers are also important. Technically, one can buy U.S-made equipment while maintaining good economic relations with China at the same time. Perhaps even get some ToT as well if we are capable enough. It will bring in investment, knowledge and create more jobs in Bangladesh in an emerging aerospace sector. It is doable if people in charge do their jobs properly. Perhaps also conduct military exercises with the Indians to offset their anxiety. Exercise is good to relieve stress, yes?

This QUAD is at best an informal gathering, a tea and biscuits setup which is likely to fail. A complete and utter waste. If I were in Premier Xi's place, I wouldn't waste my time entertaining them. AUKUS is a real threat though.

In the future they will include Chinese weapons under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA). Russian weapons were included earlier, and that was before the Ukraine war (those were the warning signs). That means they can potentially impose economic sanctions on various individuals, entities, vessels/aircraft and even places in countries like Bangladesh should they buy Chinese/Russian weaponry.

The Irony was that with Turkey being a member of NATO, they did buy S-400 systems from Russia. The U.S did impose sanctions on Turkish entities. But whereas, not a single sanction on India that bought the exact same system. How far are they willing to go I wonder? 



Destranator said:


> The single engine fighters will remain BAF's backbone - we cannot let this segment get tangled up in American red tape. The US House of Rep goes through elections every two years meaning the House committees that approve FMS are re-schuffled frequently. Any rouge member from these committees can throw our supply chain into disarray at any point in time.
> 
> I completely acknowledge the importance of maintaining good relations with the US which is why I have come up with the "Scapegoat Theory" - I propose we scapegoat the twin engine/maritime strike segment by getting a squadron or two of Super Hornets - the US is desperately looking for foreign buyers to keep this program alive. It is a win-win - the US is happy which paves way for their no objection to us getting Gripens with ToT.
> While not ideal maintenance wise, we can then look into supplement Gripens with J-10C to keep India in check. We should start by testing waters by making loud proclamations about "considering J-10C's" and observing US reaction (fcuk India and their "concerns") . If the US remains silent, we should go ahead with procuring J-10Cs.
> 
> The ideal fighter jet composition would look something this:
> 
> 16-32 F/A -18 Block III's
> 32-64 Gripen E/F's
> *16-32 J-10C's*
> 
> Disclaimer: The above is how an air force with brain cells to rub together would think. Don't expect BAF to pull this off.



India will not remain silent if we buy advanced Chinese weaponry and ToT. You should have seen their reaction when the Pakistanis brought down an Indian MiG-21 two years ago. They will make noise over it. A lot it.

Buying Chinese weapons while maintaining good relations with the West at the same time? The future is looking risky. It is doable, yes. But are Bangladeshi diplomatic corps up for that task? I have my doubts. 



Indos said:


> Indonesia only order 6 planes for Rafale F3R and our planning minister is only agreed on another 6-8 Rafale planes for the rest of Jokowi final term. So it will be likely about 1 squadron ( 12-14 planes ). Regardless of that the order of another 6-8 Rafale needs Finance Ministry approval which until Today there is no news about whether another order will be made or not....
> 
> There is no F 15 EX acquisition planning either from Ministry of Planning ( according to Indonesian respected source )
> 
> Look like as I hope, Indonesia will depend more on KF21/IFX inshaAllah...........
> 
> This is about week ago, during Defense SOE Holding event where Jokowi is present



I am curious. Why and how did their Congress approve the sale of F-15's to your country? What is their deal here? They don't just hand out such technology to everyone.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Not to mention the senate which is overwhelmingly more influential in these decisions.
> 
> 
> maybe we are already testing the waters with the Mi-28 Deal and the abstention vote.
> 
> 
> 
> why not 2 squadrons of Rafale F4 and 3 squadrons of J-10C
> this opens the door to integration with the HQ-9 air defence system, not possible or very unlikely with EFT/F-16/F-18/Gripen due the manufacturers of these types being wedded into the NATO system seemingly to a higher degree than _La France 🇫🇷_
> 
> plus J-10C are cheaper , i cant think of Gov allocating enough money to two different western origin fighter types, my thoughts.
> 
> The thing about Sweden is that they are more likely to sanction BD than the USA and they cannot give us a UN security council vote if needed.


I don't trust the French to stand up to India in the event of hostilities between BD and India.
Any Western aircraft will come some form of handicap. Better scapegoat twin engine segment to keep the US happy.

We should attempt to get J-10C's regardless of Gripens.

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## Imran Khan

good thing is . in this thread we can find full info of every jet and chopper on earth . which BD did not buy

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## Destranator

Zabaniyah said:


> India will not remain silent if we buy advanced Chinese weaponry and ToT. You should have seen their reaction when the Pakistanis brought down an Indian MiG-21 two years ago. They will make noise over it. A lot it.
> 
> Buying Chinese weapons while maintaining good relations with the West at the same time? The future is looking risky. It is doable, yes. But are Bangladeshi diplomatic corps up for that task? I have my doubts.


India will squeal no matter what you do. India does not respect friendly gestures/carrots, they respond to sticks. Knowing Bangladesh cannot be easily run over militarily would have a positive impact on bilateral relations in the long term.
Regarding West-China balance, we have no choice. The civilian and military bureaucracies must either up their games or let the country suffer.




Zabaniyah said:


> I am curious. Why and how did their Congress approve the sale of F-15's to your country? What is their deal here? They don't just hand out such technology to everyone.


South China sea dispute. Indonesia is at odds with China.

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## Indos

Zabaniyah said:


> I am curious. Why and how did their Congress approve the sale of F-15's to your country? What is their deal here? They don't just hand out such technology to everyone.



As @Destranator stated, it is more on balancing act with China. Despite so USA still refuse to sell F 35 to Indonesia which is due to not make their closest allies in region ( Singapore and Australia) upset. As both will operate F 35, so USA at first offer us with F 16 V.

It needs time before USA is agree to sell Indonesia F 15 EX, which is prompted by the deal between Indonesia and French with 6 Rafale order. Despite so, this F 15 order intention comes from Defense Minister. In order to pass into real order, they need Planning Minister approval, and then after that Finance Minister. So far Planning Minister hasnt approved the plan (according to respected Indonesian journalist/ defense analyst who has connection to both Planning Minister and Finance Minister office).

-------------------------------------------------

Indonesia geopolitically is vital to US anti China stance in SCS. The relationship between two nations are getting closer since 2004 as China started rising economically and militarily. During Obama administration we get refurbished and upgraded F 16 C/D with 34 planes ( much cheaper compared if we bought new ones )

After that we can refurbished and upgrade our ten F 16 A/B in the country where Indonesian Aerospace engineers can get involved as well ( only 2 engineers from LM who supervise the refurbished and upgrade program )






Military exercise between two countries are quite often in every branch ( Army, Navy, and Air Force) since 2008. This year we will have Garuda Shield exercise with involve all branches.

Dont forget American engineers from Lockheed Martin also involves in KF21/IFX program since 2015. Before the start of second phase of KF 21/IFX development (2015-2026), our officials must get permission from US government first.

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> good thing is . in this thread we can find full info of every jet and chopper on earth . which BD did not buy


We should charge other countries buying fighters consultation fees for doing analysis for them.

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## siegecrossbow

Destranator said:


> China will bomb BD if we ask them to re-open the F-7 production line for the second time at this point when they are considering shutting the J-10 production line.
> Honestly, they should just ram J-10's up BAF's a$$.



No the J-10C production line is just shifted to Guizhou.

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## Destranator

siegecrossbow said:


> No the J-10C production line is just shifted to Guizhou.


I read somewhere that PLAAF wants to stop inducting anymore J-10's (hence shut production soon) and fully focus on J-31's for medium fighters. Is this correct?


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## LKJ86

Destranator said:


> I read somewhere that PLAAF wants to stop inducting anymore J-10's (hence shut production soon) and fully focus on J-31's for single engine fighters. Is this correct?


Of course not.

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## Avicenna

What a pathetic thread.

Oh well.

Enjoy!


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> What a pathetic thread.
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> Enjoy!



Off topic - the MiG-23 got universally dumped on by critics. Apparently brilliant design but rather poor execution. The MiG-27 could not replace it fast enough. Still - a wonderful and ambitious design attempt at furthering the "state of the Russian aeronautics art". 









Russia's MiG-23 May Be the Worst Fighter of All Time


Picking the worst fighter of all time is no easy task—one quickly finds themselves spoiled for choice.




nationalinterest.org


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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Off topic - the MiG-23 got universally dumped on by critics. Apparently brilliant design but rather poor execution. The MiG-27 could not replace it fast enough. Still - a wonderful and ambitious design attempt at furthering the "state of the Russian aeronautics art".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's MiG-23 May Be the Worst Fighter of All Time
> 
> 
> Picking the worst fighter of all time is no easy task—one quickly finds themselves spoiled for choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org



The Mig-27 was just a ground attack variant of the Mig-23.

I'm a fanboy of Soviet aviation.

I've always found it really mysterious and interesting.

Of course with the end of the Cold War, Westerners had more access to the aircraft.

But back when I was a kid, I used to try to buy whatever books I could and would savor the early black and white photos of the Mig-29, Su-27, and Su-25 in the late eighties.

And still remember the first appearance of the Mig-29 in Finland in 1986.









Soviet MiG-29 Fighters Make Western Debut


HELSINKI, Finland (AP) _ Six MiG-29 planes, examples of the latest generation of Soviet jetfighters, arrived at an airport in eastern Finland to go on display for the first time in the West. The MiG-29s, codenamed ''Fulcrum'' in the West, arrived at the Rissala airport on Tuesday on a...




apnews.com





Maybe Hasina is a fan girl of Russian military aviation also.

Chinese military aviation has that same excitement for me now.

Although things are alot different with the internet in terms of ease of access to info and photos as opposed to waiting for print in books and magazines.

Hopefully, we can talk about BAF related things soon.

Nothing seems to be happening man.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> The Mig-27 was just a ground attack variant of the Mig-23.
> 
> I'm a fanboy of Soviet aviation.
> 
> I've always found it really mysterious and interesting.
> 
> Of course with the end of the Cold War, Westerners had more access to the aircraft.
> 
> But back when I was a kid, I used to try to buy whatever books I could and would savor the early black and white photos of the Mig-29, Su-27, and Su-25 in the late eighties.
> 
> And still remember the first appearance of the Mig-29 in Finland in 1986.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet MiG-29 Fighters Make Western Debut
> 
> 
> HELSINKI, Finland (AP) _ Six MiG-29 planes, examples of the latest generation of Soviet jetfighters, arrived at an airport in eastern Finland to go on display for the first time in the West. The MiG-29s, codenamed ''Fulcrum'' in the West, arrived at the Rissala airport on Tuesday on a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Hasina is a fan girl of Russian military aviation also.
> 
> Chinese military aviation has that same excitement for me now.
> 
> Although things are alot different with the internet in terms of ease of access to info and photos as opposed to waiting for print in books and magazines.
> 
> Hopefully, we can talk about BAF related things soon.
> 
> Nothing seems to be happening man.



Ah - great minds think alike, a Soviet aircraft fanboy here is well, with even earlier brute aircraft like the Su-7. 9, 15 and then 22. Ugly but effective and built like tanks. 

One Eastern EU nation's pilots used to do pullups on the Su-7 long pitot tubes (that rod ahead of the nosecone). Try that in any part of the F-16.

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## Zabaniyah

Destranator said:


> India will squeal no matter what you do. India does not respect friendly gestures/carrots, they respond to sticks. Knowing Bangladesh cannot be easily run over militarily would have a positive impact on bilateral relations in the long term.
> Regarding West-China balance, we have no choice. The civilian and military bureaucracies must either up their games or let the country suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> South China sea dispute. Indonesia is at odds with China.



Rest assured, the US and China are going in a collision course. Even if there isn't much of a reason, they'll make up one. Did you listen to Biden's Eid message? He did acknowledge that Muslims are being oppressed around the globe and the Muslims in America form an important part of the U.S. At the same time, he specifically mentioned Rohingya and Uighur. Do we see where this is going? 

There is no guarantee that another Rohingya style influx back in 2012 won't occur again in the future, be it from Myanmar or India. Bangladesh never even wanted to be part of any security pact nor should it ever be. It wanted to be part of an economic pact which focuses on enhancing multilateral trade and being a crown jewel of economic progress in the region (may be a tall order). Even this simple vision is under threat. How will Bangladesh being highly populated realize that vision with an influx of unwanted/undesired peoples just because they were born different/deficient? Neither of the larger neighboring countries can guarantee us that security. That is the general consensus here in Bangladesh. 

It is all about strategic alignment and national interests above all else. The repatriation discussions with Myanmar and mediated by China are going nowhere. China is going to back the junta over Bangladesh no matter what; the reasons for which are best discussed in another tread. This puts us at odds with them unless they can give us a better deal that guarantees our security.

The issue of India is that the West in general viewed South Asia through the lens New Delhi, and this created problems in the region including us. Their failure in Afghanistan however changed that, but we still need to come around that risk. Rising religious tensions in that country are complicating matters further.

That being said, the MRCA program of BAF had been delayed three times back to back for reasons. 2030 is still a long way though.

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## UKBengali

Zabaniyah said:


> It is all about strategic alignment and national interests above all else. The repatriation discussions with Myanmar and mediated by China are going nowhere. China is going to back the junta over Bangladesh no matter what; the reasons for which are best discussed in another tread. This puts us at odds with them unless they can give us a better deal that guarantees our security.





Do you not think that a country with a population of 165 million with a 400 billion US dollars GDP, expected to grow at an average annual rate of growth of 7-8% a year till 2035 needs anyone to "guarantee" its security?

Even much larger India can be sufficiently humbled by BD being serious and building up its conventional force in line with its economic power. 8 Mig-29s for BD is pathetic as it could should have 100 4/4+ gen fighters in its inventory now.

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## Zabaniyah

UKBengali said:


> Do you not think that a country with a population of 165 million with a 400 billion US dollars GDP, expected to grow at an average annual rate of growth of 7-8% a year till 2035 needs anyone to "guarantee" its security?
> 
> Even much larger India can be sufficiently humbled by BD being serious and building up its conventional force in line with its economic power. 8 Mig-29s for BD is pathetic as it could should have 100 4/4+ gen fighters in its inventory now.



If you want to be the crown jewel of economic growth, you better be prepared to defend it. That was my point. And having somewhat hostile neighbors that are larger than us doesn't exactly exude that confidence either.

And like I said, procurement of MRCA's had been delayed intentionally for reasons.

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## UKBengali

Zabaniyah said:


> And like I said, procurement of MRCA's had been delayed intentionally for reasons.




Are you able to state some of these reasons in your opinion?


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## Zabaniyah

UKBengali said:


> Are you able to state some of these reasons in your opinion?


Elections.

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## UKBengali

Zabaniyah said:


> Elections.





Hmmm. 

I have no idea what the real reason/reasons are but the fact that we have not had even a contract signed now makes me think that the government has little intention to build BD up into a serious military power over the next 5-10 years.

We kind of know what would make the most sense now(UK version Typhoon Mk 2) in terms of geopolitics and capability but there is little sign of anything happening to make the signing of the contract anytime soon.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Zabaniyah said:


> Elections.


I think the Brits want to secure either the Frigate deal (Type 31) or MRCA (EFT) and they said : ''_we'll monitor upcoming elections''. _Imo getting type 31 would be a mistake, would prefer we got Brit fighter and Italo-French frigate rather than the other way round.



UKBengali said:


> Hmmm.


BAL will win the next election. They can use these purchases to make sure the western gov look the other way and give them legitimacy.

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## mb444

Zabaniyah said:


> If you want to be the crown jewel of economic growth, you better be prepared to defend it. That was my point. And having somewhat hostile neighbors that are larger than us doesn't exactly exude that confidence either.
> 
> And like I said, procurement of MRCA's had been delayed intentionally for reasons.


Please elaborate on the intentions and reasons for the delay. Would be interested in your perspective of how we should now proceed.

I fundamentally believe a strong BAF would have prevented the rohingya debacle. The delay in bolstering BAF have cost us dearly.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Bangladesh Air Force Chief Departs For Turkey​Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force Air Chief Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan. Photo: ISPR






*Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force Air Chief Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan, BBP, BUP, nswc, fawc, psc left Dhaka for Turkey on Saturday (14 May) at the invitation of Commander of the Turkish Air Force General Hasan Küçükakyüz.*
He is being accompanied by his spouse and two entourages for the trip, reads an Inter-Service Public Relation (ISPR) Directorate press release.
The five-day official visit is intended to strengthen the existing cordial relationship with Bangladesh and Turkey by expanding the scope of mutual cooperation in the professional sectors.

*During the trip, the Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force will call on Commander of Turkish Air Force General Hasan Küçükakyüz to* *exchange views on bilateral issues of mutual interests which will be beneficial for implementing future plans of BAF.*
The airforce chief will visit different government and private military equipment production facilities including Turkish Aerospace Industries.

He will also visit the mausoleum (Anitkabir) of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the Founding Father of Turkey, and pay homage by laying a floral wreath.
The Chief of Air Staff is scheduled to return home on 20 May.









Bangladesh Air Force Chief Departs For Turkey


Chief of Air Staff of Bangladesh Air Force Air Chief Marshal Shaikh Abdul Hannan, BBP, BUP, nswc, fawc, psc left Dhaka for Turkey on Saturday (14 May) at the invitation of Commander of the Turkish Air Force General Hasan Küçükakyüz. He is being accompanied by his spouse and two entourages for...




www.tbsnews.net

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## Avicenna

Ah the glory days!

Enjoy!

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## notapdformat

??????

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## Bilal9

notapdformat said:


> ??????



This is hilarious. Top syr-ket - huh??

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> This is hilarious. Top syr-ket - huh??



It's a joke at this point.

Fookin ghadas.

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## F-6 enthusiast

notapdformat said:


> ??????


this guy made same claims about BAF pilots being trained on J-10C in China back in 2018/19.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> this guy made same claims about BAF pilots being trained on J-10C in China back in 2018/19.


BAF personnel train so hard, they even train on planes they would never fly in service.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


>


that's the real stealth technology right there.

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## Destranator

notapdformat said:


> ??????





F-6 enthusiast said:


> #TBDA # Exclusive
> I have obtained exclusive photos of Bangladesh Air Force personnel undertaking training for F-22 MRCA in USA.
> Due to secrecy of the matter we will not be divulging the photo but its a clear indicator of the future direction of the #AirForce.
> #TBDA #BangladeshAirForce #Exclusive
> 
> View attachment 846095
> 
> source



The above is consistent with what I predicted years ago:



Destranator said:


> I don't think there is much room for improvement for BAF given they have already procured MiG-35s, Su-30s/35s, Gripens, EFTs and J-10A/B/Cs. *For reasons of national security they have hidden them all in Khan baba's basement.*

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## Rahil Ahmed

So did BAS 2022 not happen?

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## LKJ86

Via @FlyingChickWei from Weibo

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## KampfAlwin

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 850999
> View attachment 851000
> View attachment 851001
> View attachment 851002
> 
> Via @FlyingChickWei from Weibo


Any Bangladeshi members here know why they‘re there? Maybe picking up weapons delivery?


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## F-6 enthusiast

KampfAlwin said:


> Any Bangladeshi members here know why they‘re there? Maybe picking up weapons delivery?


that's an army plane which is very strange.


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## Destranator

KampfAlwin said:


> Any Bangladeshi members here know why they‘re there? Maybe picking up weapons delivery?


Most likely an official visit and/or picking up/dropping off trainees.



Rahil Ahmed said:


> So did BAS 2022 not happen?


Unfortunately not. I met the European Commission President recently. She was sobbing as European suppliers such as SAAB, Eurofighter and Dassault did not get the opportunity of showcasing their fighter jets at BAS in the hopes of selling a paltry 16 units to BAF, that too on credit.
Cancellation of BAS has also deeply moved the president of AVIC. He has cut down on work meetings and is seeing his psychiatrist once every two weeks. His wife complains of him often waking up in the middle of the night in tears.

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## Bilal9

KampfAlwin said:


> Any Bangladeshi members here know why they‘re there? Maybe picking up weapons delivery?



Probably liaison flight with mid-senior army folks visiting - this thing cannot carry that much cargo....

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## alphapak

F-6 enthusiast said:


> this guy made same claims about BAF pilots being trained on J-10C in China back in 2018/19.



He mistook PAF for BAF.


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## Rahil Ahmed

At this point instead of wasting billions of dollars on decrepit jet fighters they should just wire some of the money to me

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## F-6 enthusiast

Chief reporter at Anadolu Agency says BD signed a contract for TB-2 drones a few weeks ago 






this guy worked in other media outlets in Turkey 
see linkedin



https://tr.linkedin.com/in/sorwar-alam

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## F-6 enthusiast

Italian Tabloid report on EFT offer to Egypt



"Al Sisi is just waiting for a phone call from Draghi," says an authoritative representative of the Italian government. The phone call should unlock a military contract worth at least 3 billion euros. About 60% of the sum would go to Leonardo. The former Finmeccanica has been in talks with Egypt for three years for the sale of 24 Eurofighters, the [...]

(locked behind the paywall)









L’offerta all’Egitto per 24 Eurofighter - Il Fatto Quotidiano


“Al Sisi aspetta solo una telefonata di Draghi”, dice un autorevole esponente del governo italiano. La telefonata dovrebbe sbloccare una commessa militare del valore di almeno 3 miliardi di euro. Circa il 60% della somma andrebbe a Leonardo. L’ex Finmeccanica è da tre anni in trattative con...




www.ilfattoquotidiano.it





3 billion for 24 jets means ~ 125 million USD/aircraft .
Bear in mind Egypt would be a first time customer , not sure if this sum includes associated costs, would not be surprised if there is a combination of new and old airframes in this offer

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## F-6 enthusiast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534027871895060481
captions on for video

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## F-6 enthusiast

Destranator said:


> @F-6 enthusiast : However, the US may have qualms over what BAF would supposedly declare after the election.


How it feels to advocate for F-16V on PDF  😭

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## Avicenna

BAF Grob 120TP.

Enjoy!






Are the next batch of 12 coming soon?

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> *Are the next batch of 12 coming soon?*


Not enough. Grob Aircraft should move their production line to Bd given the demand for trainers. Every Bangladeshi should go through mandatory primary flight training.

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## Avicenna

Destranator said:


> Not enough. Grob Aircraft should move their production line to Bd given the demand for trainers. Every Bangladeshi should go through mandatory primary flight training.



I think the plan was for 24 with 12 delivered already and the other 12 this summer.

Also, not a bad deal.

I think I read somewhere they bought 24 for the price of 12.

Good for vegetables and aircraft as well.

Also, at least the next generation of BAF aviators will learn on modern equipment as opposed to the ancient CJ-6.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> I think the plan was for 24 with 12 delivered already and the other 12 this summer.
> 
> Also, not a bad deal.
> 
> I think I read somewhere they bought 24 for the price of 12.
> 
> Good for vegetables and aircraft as well.
> 
> Also, at least the next generation of BAF aviators will learn on modern equipment as opposed to the ancient CJ-6.


Our knobhead planners need to start standardising equipment. Army Aviation has selected a different aircraft for primary training- why?

We should get other govt agencies such as coast guard, fisheries, agriculture to also train on these aircraft and operate variants purposed for their needs.

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## Avicenna

Another one!

Enjoy!

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## F-6 enthusiast

''Answering another question from ruling AL lawmaker Nur Uddin Chowdhury Nayan elected from Laxmipur, *the Prime Minister said the Bangladesh Air Force is in the process of building a small range of primary training aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) in its own technology.''*









Padma Bridge’s 42 pillars reflect courageous Bangladesh: PM


Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday said the government didn’t become disappointed as the construction of the Padma Bridge has...




www.jagonews24.com

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## Arthur

F-6 enthusiast said:


> ''Answering another question from ruling AL lawmaker Nur Uddin Chowdhury Nayan elected from Laxmipur, *the Prime Minister said the Bangladesh Air Force is in the process of building a small range of primary training aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) in its own technology.''*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Padma Bridge’s 42 pillars reflect courageous Bangladesh: PM
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday said the government didn’t become disappointed as the construction of the Padma Bridge has...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jagonews24.com


Same old. Sounds like a broken tape recorder now.

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## Rahil Ahmed

F-6 enthusiast said:


> ''Answering another question from ruling AL lawmaker Nur Uddin Chowdhury Nayan elected from Laxmipur, *the Prime Minister said the Bangladesh Air Force is in the process of building a small range of primary training aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) in its own technology.''*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Padma Bridge’s 42 pillars reflect courageous Bangladesh: PM
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday said the government didn’t become disappointed as the construction of the Padma Bridge has...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jagonews24.com


And I'm building a f35 in my backyard

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## Destranator

Rahil Ahmed said:


> And I'm building a f35 in my backyard


You have a higher chance of succeeding.

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## Destranator

F-6 enthusiast said:


> Italian Tabloid report on EFT offer to Egypt
> 
> (*locked behind the paywall*)


The tabloid is run by top Italian defence expert Amarillo Cannellini (The Bolgonese Defence Analyst).

His announcements are timed strategically around Italian elections.

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## F-6 enthusiast

Rahil Ahmed said:


> And I'm building a f35 in my backyard


before you apply the invisibility cloak , make sure you mark the spot where you assemble it 







Destranator said:


> His announcements are timed strategically around Italian elections.


that's like every 5.5 months

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## Avicenna

F-6 enthusiast said:


> before you apply the invisibility cloak , make sure you mark the spot where you assemble it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's like every 5.5 months



You know, I'd rather have Trump than Biden.

I never thought I would say that.

But its true.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> You know, I'd rather have Trump than Biden.
> 
> I never thought I would say that.
> 
> But its true.



Bura mia barota bajai disey, charidigey juddho ar mudra-sphiti.



F-6 enthusiast said:


> before you apply the invisibility cloak , make sure you mark the spot where you assemble it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's like every 5.5 months



I was ROFLMAO listening to this TRUMP idiot. The age when illiterates in the US and eight pass people in India run countries.

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Bura mia barota bajai disey, charidigey juddho ar mudra-sphiti.
> 
> 
> 
> I was ROFLMAO listening to this TRUMP idiot. The age when illiterates in the US and eight pass people in India run countries.



This Ukraine stuff really made me think differently about Trump.

The man has his issues.

But the current madness going on would NOT have happened under his watch.

Man, this thread is pathetic.

NOTHING to talk BAF related.


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> This Ukraine stuff really made me think differently about Trump.
> 
> The man has his issues.
> 
> But the current madness going on would NOT have happened under his watch.
> 
> Man, this thread is pathetic.
> 
> NOTHING to talk BAF related.



Well said. Fret not. Things may change soon enough...


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

I hope the BAF does a clutch move like being the launch export buyer of the KF-21.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> You know, I'd rather have Trump than Biden.
> 
> I never thought I would say that.
> 
> But its true.





Avicenna said:


> This Ukraine stuff really made me think differently about Trump.
> 
> The man has his issues.
> 
> But the current madness going on would NOT have happened under his watch.
> 
> Man, this thread is pathetic.
> 
> NOTHING to talk BAF related.




I think the above is relevant:
Ukraine war -> global stability -> need for peacekeeping -> UN-obsessed BAF.

On topic:
The Ukraine war has nothing to do with who is in the Oval Office. The main reasons for the invasion are:

Russia would not tolerate a pro-NATO membership regime in Ukraine
Russia feels threatened by Ukraine's energy exports to Europe. Putin wants to take control of Ukraine's energy.
A clown like Trump being in office would have ensured a weaker NATO response and more convenient and successful invasion. Russia is struggling to advance right now thanks to NATO.

Trump is also a bigger sellout to oil companies whose unchecked oligopolostic price gouging (look up the price differences between crude oil vs American refined oil) is fueling the current global inflation.

Don't buy into Western media propaganda portraying Biden to be weak on foreign policy. Biden's real weakness is being just another puppet of multinational corporations like his predecessors:

He could have used exec orders to redirect emergency funds towards providing temporary universal healthcare to fight the pandemic but he did not
Despite having a super majority, Biden took no real measure to address permanent universal healthcare (you are a doctor, you know how essential this is - 300K of the 1 million killed by Covid would be alive today had it been in place), authorising FDA to negotiate drug prices, pandemic income support, student loan forgiveness, infrastructre overhaul, universal pre-K, etc. He pretends like he has no choice but the reality is he can easily use the office of Presidency to arm twist Joe Mansion and Kirsten Sinema into submission - just publicly threatening to back their primary opponents would break them.
No real action to put oil companies on a leash.
Biden's only achievement is ending an unjust occupation of Afghanistan, much to the annoyance of the military industrial complex and their lackey media. The withdrawal would have been messy no matter who did it or when. His only fault here is not evacuating Afghan support staff early.

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## Rahil Ahmed

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I hope the BAF does a clutch move like being the launch export buyer of the KF-21.


They will buy the export version of the tejas for $200 million a pop

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## Avicenna

Enjoy!

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## alphapak

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I hope the BAF does a clutch move like being the launch export buyer of the KF-21.



They should go for the FA50 and then move onto KF21.

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## siegecrossbow

Avicenna said:


> You know, I'd rather have Trump than Biden.
> 
> I never thought I would say that.
> 
> But its true.



It is totally invisible when it goes into a cloud though.


----------



## nahtanbob

Destranator said:


> I think the above is relevant:
> Ukraine war -> global stability -> need for peacekeeping -> UN-obsessed BAF.
> 
> On topic:
> The Ukraine war has nothing to do with who is in the Oval Office. The main reasons for the invasion are:
> 
> *Russia would not tolerate a pro-NATO membership regime in Ukraine*
> *Russia feels threatened by Ukraine's energy exports to Europe. Putin wants to take control of Ukraine's energy.*
> A clown like Trump being in office would have ensured a weaker NATO response and more convenient and successful invasion. Russia is struggling to advance right now thanks to NATO.
> 
> Trump is also a bigger sellout to oil companies whose unchecked oligopolostic price gouging (look up the price differences between crude oil vs American refined oil) is fueling the current global inflation.
> 
> Don't buy into Western media propaganda portraying Biden to be weak on foreign policy. Biden's real weakness is being just another puppet of multinational corporations like his predecessors:
> 
> *He could have used exec orders to redirect emergency funds towards providing temporary universal healthcare to fight the pandemic but he did not*
> *Despite having a super majority, Biden took no real measure to address permanent universal healthcare (you are a doctor, you know how essential this is - 300K of the 1 million killed by Covid would be alive today had it been in place), authorising FDA to negotiate drug prices, pandemic income support, student loan forgiveness, infrastructre overhaul, universal pre-K, etc. He pretends like he has no choice but the reality is he can easily use the office of Presidency to arm twist Joe Mansion and Kirsten Sinema into submission - just publicly threatening to back their primary opponents would break them.*
> *No real action to put oil companies on a leash.*
> Biden's only achievement is ending an unjust occupation of Afghanistan, much to the annoyance of the military industrial complex and their lackey media. The withdrawal would have been messy no matter who did it or when. His only fault here is not evacuating Afghan support staff early.



Ukraine is not joining NATO
Ukraine does not have any energy resources for itself let alone export

Biden does not have a super majority. Your knowledge of American politics is poor

Why put the oil companies on leash ? Just because you do not like them is not a good reason

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## Destranator

nahtanbob said:


> Ukraine is not joining NATO
> Ukraine does not have any energy resources for itself let alone export
> 
> Biden does not have a super majority. Your knowledge of American politics is poor
> 
> Why put the oil companies on leash ? Just because you do not like them is not a good reason


You're wrong on all counts, Nathuram. Do some research on everything you have written.

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## nahtanbob

Destranator said:


> You're wrong all counts, Nathuram. Do some research on everything you have written.



the level of ignorance is staggering

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## Tom-tom

Avicenna said:


> Enjoy!




Why is there plumes of black smoke that can't be good


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## Bilal9

Tom-tom said:


> Why is there plumes of black smoke that can't be good



MiG-29 engines (early KLIMOV RD-33's) are famous for being smokey.

This was corrected in the latest version of these engines (the FADEC controlled RD-33MK version) for the MiG-35 platform which is virtually smokeless.

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## Bilal9

Bangladesh Airforce chief Serniabat speaking at a public event and indicating several planned improvements toward Hasina's Vision 2041 for the armed services. Concrete stuff or just a bunch of hot air - you decide. Sorry Bengali only.


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## VikingRaider

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladesh Airforce chief Serniabat speaking at a public event and indicating several planned improvements toward Hasina's Vision 2041 for the armed services. Concrete stuff or just a bunch of hot air - you decide. Sorry Bengali only.


As long as BAL is in power , I don't see any aircraft is adding to our inventory! 14 years have passed already!

They spend tons of money on other unnecessary things , just don't spend money on Air force. A govt that doesn't care to development of armed forces , they aren't patriot, not at all!

First the goal was forces goal 2030 and now now it's 2041?

*Ps -* I didn't watch the video . When I will see action , only then I will believe them!

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## Avicenna

Bilal9 said:


> Bangladesh Airforce chief Serniabat speaking at a public event and indicating several planned improvements toward Hasina's Vision 2041 for the armed services. Concrete stuff or just a bunch of hot air - you decide. Sorry Bengali only.



Old video.

This guy knew what’s up.

Unfortunately, he is playing golf somewhere now unable to implement what he was talking about.

The government of Bangladesh should be ashamed.

It‘s 2022.

No new judho biman.

As a result the things he was hoping to prevent are reality.

For example, our FM is seeking Indian help to preserve the Bangladeshi government and Myanmar is violating our airspace.

Absolutely disgraceful.

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## Abid123

BAF should buy the J-10C if China is willing to sell it to Bangladesh.


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## Bilal9

Abid123 said:


> BAF should buy the J-10C if China is willing to sell it to Bangladesh.



I don't think that will be the case. 

China knows that under Hasina - Bangladesh is firmly under Indian defence doctrine and directives. Hasina will not dare to displease her masters in Delhi.

China will not trust Hasina's govt. in Bangladesh with their top level fighter technology until all RAW operatives and India-shill agents are purged from Bangladesh (including armed forces).

Commercial projects and infra only for the time being.

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## alphapak

Bilal9 said:


> I don't think that will be the case.
> 
> China knows that under Hasina - Bangladesh is firmly under Indian defence doctrine and directives. Hasina will not dare to displease her masters in Delhi.
> 
> China will not trust Hasina's govt. in Bangladesh with their top level fighter technology until all RAW operatives and India-shill agents are purged from Bangladesh (including armed forces).
> 
> Commercial projects and infra only for the time being.



What about FA 50 from South Korea?


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## Bilal9

alphapak said:


> What about FA 50 from South Korea?



That is a great option - or even the KF-21 Boramae (F-33). But as long as Hasina is in power, she will accede to Indian arm-twisting and not buy anything more potent than say a Lead-in Jet Trainer. Of which we have multiple types. Last real fighters bought (MiG-29. F-7 advanced) were all before Hasina's accession to power in Bangladesh.

Aero L-39 (Czech)











Yak-130 (Russia)





In fact the Indian RAW agents in Bangladesh constantly monitor our armed forces to see whether we buy something to challenge their level of air/naval/ground forces superiority and usually stop it at conceptual stage by petitioning Hasina.

This level of interference in our internal defence affairs is unprecedented and cannot stand. We are just biding time and the Sanghis know their time is coming.

The last potent thing Bangladesh bought were subs for the Navy and Indians started dhoti-wetting in Delhi even before the subs arrived from China. Their view is that they will "protect" us - so Bangladesh should get rid of all armed forces.

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## alphapak

Bilal9 said:


> But as long as Hasina is in power, she will accede to Indian arm-twisting and not buy anything more potent than say a Lead-in Jet Trainer.



Is their anyone in Bangladesh who can counter this witch?

We have similar interference in Pakistan from Americans but we 
have Imran Khan as a counter. InshAllah the people will bring him
back to power soon.

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## mb444

alphapak said:


> Is their anyone in Bangladesh who can counter this witch?
> 
> We have similar interference in Pakistan from Americans but we
> have Imran Khan as a counter. InshAllah the people will bring him
> back to power soon.


 In defense front unfortunately no, not yet.

However, as our economy progresses defense spending will increase even as a percentage of GDP it may not.

Indian forced cul de sac BD finds itself in the medium to long run will not stand. Its inevitable.

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## Gomig-21

Avicenna said:


> Enjoy!



Is the MiG-29M/M2 out of the question for the BAF? Two-fold question, I suppose; the first is Bangladesh under the possible threat of CAATSA should it purchase Russian hardware as I'm not familiar with the extent of its ties with the US and second, any resistance towards that particular fighter?

I ask because you guys obviously already operate the early model MiG-29 so there is not only a familiarity basis for logistics etc., and since the MiG-35 still isn't available because of that gaddam AESA radar they just can't seem to get done but it still has a terrific PESA radar in the Zhuk-ME but it also has a phenomenal weapons' package. 

As you know, we're quite familiar with that fighter in Egypt and the EAF is out of its mind happy with that aircraft that there are plans to acquire at least another 50 to possibly 75 more on top of the current 50 in the fleet. But our problem is CAATSA since our relationship with the US is pretty involved on many levels and they have threatened us with it if we proceeded with the new Su-35 deal we had already signed, and the aircraft already built. Bastards put the kiobache on that dream and it's been stuck in limbo for about a year, now, and no one knows what's going to happen with that. So the fate of additional MiG-29s or preferably 35s is also unknown at the moment until the Su-35S contract is settled.

That also makes it another option for the BAF if they want an even more powerful fighter than the MiG-29/35. Has either of those options (MiG-29M/35 or Su-35S) been discussed or at least are feasible for the BAF?


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## Bengal71

Gomig-21 said:


> Is the MiG-29M/M2 out of the question for the BAF? Two-fold question, I suppose; the first is Bangladesh under the possible threat of CAATSA should it purchase Russian hardware as I'm not familiar with the extent of its ties with the US and second, any resistance towards that particular fighter?
> 
> I ask because you guys obviously already operate the early model MiG-29 so there is not only a familiarity basis for logistics etc., and since the MiG-35 still isn't available because of that gaddam AESA radar they just can't seem to get done but it still has a terrific PESA radar in the Zhuk-ME but it also has a phenomenal weapons' package.
> 
> As you know, we're quite familiar with that fighter in Egypt and the EAF is out of its mind happy with that aircraft that there are plans to acquire at least another 50 to possibly 75 more on top of the current 50 in the fleet. But our problem is CAATSA since our relationship with the US is pretty involved on many levels and they have threatened us with it if we proceeded with the new Su-35 deal we had already signed, and the aircraft already built. Bastards put the kiobache on that dream and it's been stuck in limbo for about a year, now, and no one knows what's going to happen with that. So the fate of additional MiG-29s or preferably 35s is also unknown at the moment until the Su-35S contract is settled.
> 
> That also makes it another option for the BAF if they want an even more powerful fighter than the MiG-29/35. Has either of those options (MiG-29M/35 or Su-35S) been discussed or at least are feasible for the BAF?



Russian planes should not be bought because of two reasons:

1. CAATSA
2. They are junk anyway.

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## Gomig-21

Bengal71 said:


> Russian planes should not be bought because of two reasons:
> 
> 1. CAATSA
> 2. They are junk anyway.



1 I can see but 2 I strongly disagree with. That's not really an astute observation to be perfectly honest with you. But hey, to each his own and remind me how many MiG-29s BAF already has in its fleet? I highly doubt those are junk for what they're roles are.


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## Bengal71

Gomig-21 said:


> 1 I can see but 2 I strongly disagree with. That's not really an astute observation to be perfectly honest with you. But hey, to each his own and remind me how many MiG-29s BAF already has in its fleet? I highly doubt those are junk for what they're roles are.



BAF has 8. And it doesn't matter whether they belong to BAF or any other AF. Russian aircraft are junk and a waste of money. AF tech is heavily electronics dominated, the Russians are nowhere near the US, EU and nowadays even China.

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## Destranator

Bengal71 said:


> BAF has 8. And it doesn't matter whether they belong to BAF or any other AF. Russian aircraft are junk and a waste of money. AF tech is heavily electronics dominated, the Russians are nowhere near the US, EU and nowadays even China.


You haven't even mentioned the worst parts: Low MTBF engines and unscrupulous attitude of Russian defence suppliers.

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## Bengal71

Destranator said:


> You haven't even mentioned the worst parts: Low MTBF engines and unscrupulous attitude of Russian defence suppliers.



Exactly, not only the engines other parts too. Their best jets SU-XX series also have the RCS of a warehouse. Network centric capability, AWACS, AEW&C, sensor fusion are non-existent or ancient. They haven't even developed a new aircraft after the Soviet days except the SU-57 which is a stealth version of the flanker series.

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## mb444

Bengal71 said:


> BAF has 8. And it doesn't matter whether they belong to BAF or any other AF. Russian aircraft are junk and a waste of money. AF tech is heavily electronics dominated, the Russians are nowhere near the US, EU and nowadays even China.


⁹


Gomig-21 said:


> Is the MiG-29M/M2 out of the question for the BAF? Two-fold question, I suppose; the first is Bangladesh under the possible threat of CAATSA should it purchase Russian hardware as I'm not familiar with the extent of its ties with the US and second, any resistance towards that particular fighter?
> 
> I ask because you guys obviously already operate the early model MiG-29 so there is not only a familiarity basis for logistics etc., and since the MiG-35 still isn't available because of that gaddam AESA radar they just can't seem to get done but it still has a terrific PESA radar in the Zhuk-ME but it also has a phenomenal weapons' package.
> 
> As you know, we're quite familiar with that fighter in Egypt and the EAF is out of its mind happy with that aircraft that there are plans to acquire at least another 50 to possibly 75 more on top of the current 50 in the fleet. But our problem is CAATSA since our relationship with the US is pretty involved on many levels and they have threatened us with it if we proceeded with the new Su-35 deal we had already signed, and the aircraft already built. Bastards put the kiobache on that dream and it's been stuck in limbo for about a year, now, and no one knows what's going to happen with that. So the fate of additional MiG-29s or preferably 35s is also unknown at the moment until the Su-35S contract is settled.
> 
> That also makes it another option for the BAF if they want an even more powerful fighter than the MiG-29/35. Has either of those options (MiG-29M/35 or Su-35S) been discussed or at least are feasible for the BAF?



Any russian jet is out of the question for BD for many reasons but the prominent ones are as follows:

- Policy paralysis - BAF lacks strategic vision and political support. Its current capacity vis a vis neighbours are demonstrably lower than previous decades. Mig as with all other jets is out of the running. 

- Caatsa - BD geopolitical leverage is minimal and Migs are not worth the hasstle

- Russian sales tactics- in earlier negotiation for SUs, Russian did try to strong arm BD into buying more MIGs. This did not go down well after BD effectively customised the bid for the russians. The negotiations were abandoned and current geopolitical scenario means this avenue is closed.

- Aftersales support - BD experience with the migs can not be called a success. Aftersales support has been lacking due to lack of availability of parts. 

-Russian position vis a vis burma - BD has two enemies, India and Burma. Russians are allied to both these countries so in times of war will be unreliable. BAF needs western platform against burma and chinese platform against india.

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## Avicenna

Gomig-21 said:


> Is the MiG-29M/M2 out of the question for the BAF? Two-fold question, I suppose; the first is Bangladesh under the possible threat of CAATSA should it purchase Russian hardware as I'm not familiar with the extent of its ties with the US and second, any resistance towards that particular fighter?
> 
> I ask because you guys obviously already operate the early model MiG-29 so there is not only a familiarity basis for logistics etc., and since the MiG-35 still isn't available because of that gaddam AESA radar they just can't seem to get done but it still has a terrific PESA radar in the Zhuk-ME but it also has a phenomenal weapons' package.
> 
> As you know, we're quite familiar with that fighter in Egypt and the EAF is out of its mind happy with that aircraft that there are plans to acquire at least another 50 to possibly 75 more on top of the current 50 in the fleet. But our problem is CAATSA since our relationship with the US is pretty involved on many levels and they have threatened us with it if we proceeded with the new Su-35 deal we had already signed, and the aircraft already built. Bastards put the kiobache on that dream and it's been stuck in limbo for about a year, now, and no one knows what's going to happen with that. So the fate of additional MiG-29s or preferably 35s is also unknown at the moment until the Su-35S contract is settled.
> 
> That also makes it another option for the BAF if they want an even more powerful fighter than the MiG-29/35. Has either of those options (MiG-29M/35 or Su-35S) been discussed or at least are feasible for the BAF?



There was a tender that appeared to be tailor made for a Russian origin fighter that was placed prior to 2017.

BAF was looking for 8 with an option for another 4.

From what I remember they had to be twin engined and mount an AESA.

Most thought BAF was looking for a Flanker variant as the MiG-35 does not have AESA. 

The Yak-130 acquisition a few years earlier almost foreshadowed an eventual Russian fighter purchase.

But then the Rohingya crisis of 2017 happened and Russia clearly supported Myanmar.

But even furthermore, the Russians seemed to be twisting BD’s arm into purchasing the MiG-35 before any Flankers could be acquired.

I don‘t know specifics but Mig-35 seems to be a failed platform.

It was the lifeline for the MIG bureau which has since disappeared into UAC.

I am curious as to how the EAF is pleased with their Fulcrums.

Considering the Fulcrums have an atrocious record in combat.

Albeit, much of the conflicts placed the Fulcrums operating in less than ideal conditions.

Still as a fanboy of Soviet/Russian military aviation, I have to acknowledge Western types are far superior.











I attached the two links to videos comparing the experience of the Finnish Air Force with the Draken and early MiG-21.

Although old, the general theme persists to this day.

Finally, in terms of BAF and the current day, as I mentioned years ago in one of my posts here, the geopolitical shifts are contributing to the MRCA delay because for some reason the US has been showing Bangladesh more interest in the last 5 years than what I can remember before.

Examples being the BAF and BA chiefs going the to the US quite frequently in the recent past.

Anyways, all that being said, Russian platforms are or at least should be out of the question for BAF.

Either go European, Chinese or American.

Each brings its own set of pros and cons.

With a Russian purchase, it seems the cons are far greater than the pros.

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## cnahmed

Bangladesh purchases 36 combat aircraft from China - Front Page - observerbd.com


Bangladesh has purchased 36 combat aircraft F-7BGI from China to boost air defence capabilities, a leading Indian news agency said in a New Delhi datelined report on Wednesday.The F-7 BGI is a multi-role capable aircraft manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, China. It was specially...




www.observerbd.com






Bangladesh purchases 36 combat aircraft from China​​Published : Thursday, 1 September, 2022 at 12:00 AM Count : 809
_Business Correspondent_


 

 


​



























Bangladesh has purchased 36 combat aircraft F-7BGI from China to boost air defence capabilities, a leading Indian news agency said in a New Delhi datelined report on Wednesday.
The F-7 BGI is a multi-role capable aircraft manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, China. It was specially designed to meet the requirements of Bangladesh Air Force for
cost-effective multi-role fighter aircraft. It is said to be the most advanced version of the F-7 fighter aircraft ever.
F-7 BG upgraded with J-7G technology for Bangladesh. Unlike other cheaper and downgraded export variants of J-7G, the F-7 BGI (I for Improved) is in fact more advanced than J-7G it is developed from.
Improvements of F-7 BGI over F-7BG such as 3 MFDs and more powerful fire control radar would in turn, incorporated to J-7G2 developed later, said the IANS.
The capability of F-7 BGI is improved over earlier F-7BG resulted from upgrades listed below, and delivery of 16 such fighter aircrafts was signed in 2011 and completed in 2013.
Even with the latest J-7 technology, this aircraft does not have the capability to carry any BVR missile and is armed only with short-range, infrared homing air-to-air missiles for air to air combat, like other J-7s.
F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2; 5 Hard-points to carry air-to-air missiles, laser-guided bomb, GPS-guided bombs, drop tanks and Full glass cockpit
The aircraft also has F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar; Afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust; F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling; G-limit: +8 g / -3 g; Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI; 3 Multi functional HUD displays and HOTAS.
It is reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig21s and many of the other contemporary fighters; F-7 BGI can armed with the PL-5, PL-7 and probably the PL-9 short range air-to-air missiles
It can carry bombs and unguided rocket pods of 3000 pound, including Chinese laser-guided bombs, the IANS, said.
The report by IANS said China has been trying since a long time to emerge as a major defence exporter to India's neighbouring countries like Bangladesh, Pakistan etc.​


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## Gomig-21

Avicenna said:


> There was a tender that appeared to be tailor made for a Russian origin fighter that was placed prior to 2017.
> 
> BAF was looking for 8 with an option for another 4.
> 
> From what I remember they had to be twin engined and mount an AESA.
> 
> Most thought BAF was looking for a Flanker variant as the MiG-35 does not have AESA.
> 
> The Yak-130 acquisition a few years earlier almost foreshadowed an eventual Russian fighter purchase.
> 
> But then the Rohingya crisis of 2017 happened and Russia clearly supported Myanmar.
> 
> But even furthermore, the Russians seemed to be twisting BD’s arm into purchasing the MiG-35 before any Flankers could be acquired.



Sounds like a volatile relationship, there. 



Avicenna said:


> I don‘t know specifics but Mig-35 seems to be a failed platform.



That's a bit overstated IMO. The only thing that is missing from the MiG-29M/M2 that's supposed to qualify it as a MiG-35 is the AESA radar. The MiG-29M/M2 has the Zhuk-ME which is an X-band pulse doppler radar which is the predecessor to the Zhuk-AE which is the L-band AESA radar that is supposed to end up in the MiG-35. The Zhuk-ME is also the same radar in all the Indian MiG--29Ks for their naval carrier aircraft and is really a very decent radar. Other than that, it's the same exact platform with the large, barndoor flaps, the larger LERX & Krueger flaps and every other physical attribute.

Then they also said that the MiG-35 would have the built-in target designator instead of using a pod like many other fighters do (such as the F-16 etc.) and to make up for that, the MiG-29M/M2 has to carry the T-220 targeting pod which is the same exact thing except its hung on the engine nacelle instead of being permanently built in on the MiG-35. So most don't really consider that as a make-or-break difference between the 29M/M2 and the 35 to even justify a different designation. That said, it's mainly and really only the AESA radar.

MiG was supposed to finance the development of the Zhuk-AE but never pushed the process and so the radar never really got priority, most likely also because the orders for the aircraft weren't there with the exception of the EAF's request for 46 MiG-29M/M2s and Algeria's order for 12 of the same.

But according to the EAF's contract, MiG was supposed to finish the development of the Zhuk-AE and replace all the Zhuk-ME radars in the Egyptian fighters within 5 years of the last aircraft being delivered. The Russians never finished the development of the radar, so Egypt has been seeking other alternative for the radar upgrade but at the same time, they're actually looking to add another large number of MiG-35s to the current fleet because of how happy they've been with the fighter. They're just insisting on the AESA radar in order to make that happen.

You can see the huge barndoor flaps deployed here on this EAF MiG-29M/M2 in Greece which gives it excellent low speed handling and high AoA. You can also see the Krueger flaps deployed on the LERX.






R-73 & R-77 in this M2 undergoing testing in Russia prior to final camo paint & delivery. The canopies are also the same for these 2-seater M2 as they are for the single-seat M model. The only difference is a seat, throttle & stick and avionics for the Navigator/WSO and an additional fuel tank for the single-seat M models. That larger canopy stays the same for ease of production & maintenance.













Avicenna said:


> I am curious as to how the EAF is pleased with their Fulcrums.



Extremely pleased. The weapons package they ordered with the aircraft and what they replaced for the cost are all factors. Roughly $40 million per aircraft and many of the Sinai and Libyan sorties where they dropped Kh-35s obliterating terrorist camps and trucks sneaking over the border. The size of the explosion from a single Kh-35 dropped here:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450107699925078017
And clean FADEC engines in the new RD-33MKs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1331754263966609409
Its anti-ship capabilities are outstanding using the Kh-31 and obliterating naval targets during exercises.






It's 40 degree off-boresight R-73/74 is excellent with the eye monocle helmet attachment and its R-77 & R-27 medium range A2A missiles which will be supplanted by the longer ranged R-77-1 on the next armament order. They've been quite pleased with them and using them like crazy going up against Hellenic F-16s, Saudi F-15 & Typhoon etc. This is all first-hand experience and not rumors peddled by anti-Russian goons, lol. The latter is very easy to find all over the internet and not so Russian fans like Finish pilots. 

Even buddy-buddy A2A refueling just like the EAF Rafales have as well. 








Avicenna said:


> Still as a fanboy of Soviet/Russian military aviation, I have to acknowledge Western types are far superior.



Look, it's no F-22 or F-35. It's not even the Rafale or the Eurofighter Typhoon. No one claimed anything of the sort. But I'd put it up against most F-16s besides the Viper upgraded ones with equal air support. What you want to do is be objective and ask the recent and closest users on it like the Indian MiG-29K pilots or the Algerian & obviously Egyptian MiG-29M/M2 pilots and not old, disgruntled ex-Finish MiG-21 and early MiG-29A pilots.

A quick tidbit - the US has threatened Egypt that they'll impose CAATSA (which shame on them but that's another story for another topic) if the EAF pursued the Su-35S deal after putting and possibly losing a substantial deposit on the $2.2 billion contract for 29 aircraft of which 2/3 of them had already been built and tested! In order to make nice and not make it out to be a nasty threat -- which it was, anyway -- they offered the F-15 in exchange. Details were not given as to what exact model etc. But Tactical Report came out with an article that the US supposedly offered most likely the F-15 Strike E in new EX construct variant BUT with older avionics and early model APG radars and no AIM-120s, 9X or JDAMs. On top of that they added insult to injury by setting clauses that the F-15s would only operate out of certain bases of the US' choosing and fly only restricted air spaces LMFAO! No one is sure of the veracity of that whole offer but to add to just the technical aspect, they said that the EAF lieutenant commander who happens to be a former F-4 Phantom II pilot with over 1500 hours in that aircraft told the US reps that the aircraft they offered was "grossly inferior to the EAF's current MiG-29M/M2 platforms!" "Grossly inferior" were allegedly his exact words to the US reps and I buy that 100%. Knowing how big the US' balls are when trying to dictate things from a position of strength although the EAF had not yet abandoned the Su-35 deal for obvious reasons. But there's another example of the MiG-29M/M2's position in the EAF.

You have no idea how disgusted we Egyptians are about this filthy strong-arming the US is doing to us. Filthy bast****! To think they're pulling these incredible platforms )that only come with some of the deadliest weapons and no absurd restrictions whatsoever) right out from under our feet is beyond infuriating!






The plan was also for these to supplement the MiG-29M/M2 fleet with the possible future adding of the MiG-35.



Avicenna said:


> Although old, the general theme persists to this day.



Nah, absolutely not. That's such an unfortunately terrible misconception. In the right hands and under the proper training with the latest weaponry and additional ground & air assets, these aircraft are excellent for what they're meant to do and keep in mind, these were replacements for essentially what the EAF had in its 3rd gen arsenal which were all the MiG-21MFs from the 70s & 80s and Chinese F-7 AIRGUARD. A huge leap which would be almost the same as the BAF MiG-29As in your video with the old smokey RD-33s.

And with such a small order of 8 or 10, it would only be a positive upgrade in every sense of the word.



Avicenna said:


> Either go European, Chinese or American.
> 
> Each brings its own set of pros and cons.
> 
> With a Russian purchase, it seems the cons are far greater than the pros.



I realize we all want our high-end Rafales or F/A-18 Hornets or Typhoons or Gripens and F-35s etc. Hey, if the BAF is capable of acquiring any of those, all the power to it. That would be awesome. I can tell you that despite how happy the EAF is with the MIG-29M/M2s, it's even happier with its Rafales and might just surprise us all with an order of 24 Typhoons in the upcoming year. So I feel it the same way you fellas do, but the suggestion would be a fantastic stop-gap if anything else, on top of a huge improvement to the current MiG-29As..

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## Avicenna

Gomig-21 said:


> Sounds like a volatile relationship, there.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bit overstated IMO. The only thing that is missing from the MiG-29M/M2 that's supposed to qualify it as a MiG-35 is the AESA radar. The MiG-29M/M2 has the Zhuk-ME which is an X-band pulse doppler radar which is the predecessor to the Zhuk-AE which is the L-band AESA radar that is supposed to end up in the MiG-35. The Zhuk-ME is also the same radar in all the Indian MiG--29Ks for their naval carrier aircraft and is really a very decent radar. Other than that, it's the same exact platform with the large, barndoor flaps, the larger LERX & Krueger flaps and every other physical attribute.
> 
> Then they also said that the MiG-35 would have the built-in target designator instead of using a pod like many other fighters do (such as the F-16 etc.) and to make up for that, the MiG-29M/M2 has to carry the T-220 targeting pod which is the same exact thing except its hung on the engine nacelle instead of being permanently built in on the MiG-35. So most don't really consider that as a make-or-break difference between the 29M/M2 and the 35 to even justify a different designation. That said, it's mainly and really only the AESA radar.
> 
> MiG was supposed to finance the development of the Zhuk-AE but never pushed the process and so the radar never really got priority, most likely also because the orders for the aircraft weren't there with the exception of the EAF's request for 46 MiG-29M/M2s and Algeria's order for 12 of the same.
> 
> But according to the EAF's contract, MiG was supposed to finish the development of the Zhuk-AE and replace all the Zhuk-ME radars in the Egyptian fighters within 5 years of the last aircraft being delivered. The Russians never finished the development of the radar, so Egypt has been seeking other alternative for the radar upgrade but at the same time, they're actually looking to add another large number of MiG-35s to the current fleet because of how happy they've been with the fighter. They're just insisting on the AESA radar in order to make that happen.
> 
> You can see the huge barndoor flaps deployed here on this EAF MiG-29M/M2 in Greece which gives it excellent low speed handling and high AoA. You can also see the Krueger flaps deployed on the LERX.
> 
> View attachment 880093
> 
> 
> R-73 & R-77 in this M2 undergoing testing in Russia prior to final camo paint & delivery. The canopies are also the same for these 2-seater M2 as they are for the single-seat M model. The only difference is a seat, throttle & stick and avionics for the Navigator/WSO and an additional fuel tank for the single-seat M models. That larger canopy stays the same for ease of production & maintenance.
> 
> View attachment 880096
> 
> 
> View attachment 880085
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extremely pleased. The weapons package they ordered with the aircraft and what they replaced for the cost are all factors. Roughly $40 million per aircraft and many of the Sinai and Libyan sorties where they dropped Kh-35s obliterating terrorist camps and trucks sneaking over the border. The size of the explosion from a single Kh-35 dropped here:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450107699925078017
> And clean FADEC engines in the new RD-33MKs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1331754263966609409
> Its anti-ship capabilities are outstanding using the Kh-31 and obliterating naval targets during exercises.
> 
> View attachment 880092
> 
> 
> It's 40 degree off-boresight R-73/74 is excellent with the eye monocle helmet attachment and its R-77 & R-27 medium range A2A missiles which will be supplanted by the longer ranged R-77-1 on the next armament order. They've been quite pleased with them and using them like crazy going up against Hellenic F-16s, Saudi F-15 & Typhoon etc. This is all first-hand experience and not rumors peddled by anti-Russian goons, lol. The latter is very easy to find all over the internet and not so Russian fans like Finish pilots.
> 
> Even buddy-buddy A2A refueling just like the EAF Rafales have as well.
> 
> View attachment 880095
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, it's no F-22 or F-35. It's not even the Rafale or the Eurofighter Typhoon. No one claimed anything of the sort. But I'd put it up against most F-16s besides the Viper upgraded ones with equal air support. What you want to do is be objective and ask the recent and closest users on it like the Indian MiG-29K pilots or the Algerian & obviously Egyptian MiG-29M/M2 pilots and not old, disgruntled ex-Finish MiG-21 and early MiG-29A pilots.
> 
> A quick tidbit - the US has threatened Egypt that they'll impose CAATSA (which shame on them but that's another story for another topic) if the EAF pursued the Su-35S deal after putting and possibly losing a substantial deposit on the $2.2 billion contract for 29 aircraft of which 2/3 of them had already been built and tested! In order to make nice and not make it out to be a nasty threat -- which it was, anyway -- they offered the F-15 in exchange. Details were not given as to what exact model etc. But Tactical Report came out with an article that the US supposedly offered most likely the F-15 Strike E in new EX construct variant BUT with older avionics and early model APG radars and no AIM-120s, 9X or JDAMs. On top of that they added insult to injury by setting clauses that the F-15s would only operate out of certain bases of the US' choosing and fly only restricted air spaces LMFAO! No one is sure of the veracity of that whole offer but to add to just the technical aspect, they said that the EAF lieutenant commander who happens to be a former F-4 Phantom II pilot with over 1500 hours in that aircraft told the US reps that the aircraft they offered was "grossly inferior to the EAF's current MiG-29M/M2 platforms!" "Grossly inferior" were allegedly his exact words to the US reps and I buy that 100%. Knowing how big the US' balls are when trying to dictate things from a position of strength although the EAF had not yet abandoned the Su-35 deal for obvious reasons. But there's another example of the MiG-29M/M2's position in the EAF.
> 
> You have no idea how disgusted we Egyptians are about this filthy strong-arming the US is doing to us. Filthy bast****! To think they're pulling these incredible platforms )that only come with some of the deadliest weapons and no absurd restrictions whatsoever) right out from under our feet is beyond infuriating!
> 
> View attachment 880091
> 
> 
> The plan was also for these to supplement the MiG-29M/M2 fleet with the possible future adding of the MiG-35.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, absolutely not. That's such an unfortunately terrible misconception. In the right hands and under the proper training with the latest weaponry and additional ground & air assets, these aircraft are excellent for what they're meant to do and keep in mind, these were replacements for essentially what the EAF had in its 3rd gen arsenal which were all the MiG-21MFs from the 70s & 80s and Chinese F-7 AIRGUARD. A huge leap which would be almost the same as the BAF MiG-29As in your video with the old smokey RD-33s.
> 
> And with such a small order of 8 or 10, it would only be a positive upgrade in every sense of the word.
> 
> 
> 
> I realize we all want our high-end Rafales or F/A-18 Hornets or Typhoons or Gripens and F-35s etc. Hey, if the BAF is capable of acquiring any of those, all the power to it. That would be awesome. I can tell you that despite how happy the EAF is with the MIG-29M/M2s, it's even happier with its Rafales and might just surprise us all with an order of 24 Typhoons in the upcoming year. So I feel it the same way you fellas do, but the suggestion would be a fantastic stop-gap if anything else, on top of a huge improvement to the current MiG-29As..



Thanks for the exhaustive post.

I enjoyed reading it greatly.

Dealing with the US is like buying a beautiful rose with many thorns.

To get access to the goodies you have to deal with the conditions that come with it.

IMO this especially applies to Muslim nations for some reason.

I can’t see the same restrictions on say Singapore or South Korea.

No such restrictions on European nations or countries like Chile.

And it seems that Israel for some reasons gets carte blanche.

Ive always been fascinated by Soviet/Russian gear but they have never performed well in combat.

I dunno if it’s the gear itself or the tactics.

But for the BAF, they have a lot of work to do no matter what platform they end up buying.

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## Avicenna

__ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/643079697251537





Despite the post above, I agree with this post from DEFSECA.

Thoughts?

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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/643079697251537
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the post above, I agree with this post from DEFSECA.
> 
> Thoughts?



Same here. Balancing or appear to be balancing West and East is not the right way to go. Bangladesh will have to pick a camp when it comes to strategic affairs. That doesn't mean we cannot have transactional relationships with all parties when it comes to trade and commerce.

World has moved from Uni Polar to back to Bi-Polar again. Only the lead actors have changed. Instead of West vs USSR, it is now West vs China. There is no multi-polarity and there isn't going to be one anytime soon.

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## Destranator

leonblack08 said:


> Same here. Balancing or appear to be balancing West and East is not the right way to go. Bangladesh will have to pick a camp when it comes to strategic affairs. That doesn't mean we cannot have transactional relationships with all parties when it comes to trade and commerce.
> 
> World has moved from Uni Polar to back to Bi-Polar again. Only the lead actors have changed. Instead of West vs USSR, it is now West vs China. There is no multi-polarity and there isn't going to be one anytime soon.


While I am a strong proponent of maintaining strong economic relations with both of these camps, unfortunately we are now in a position we must pick a side militarily.
China's "non-interference" charade, which we have come to cherish till date, has come back to bite us in the rear as evident by the recent snub by the Chinese ambassador of an invite to discuss the Myanmar border situation. This is a clear message that China is picking the Burmese side.

China might also hang us out to dry in the event of conflict with India just to protect their business interests.

We have no choice but to join the Western camp now. Yes, Western strings on military tech will be a problem but anything is better than the current impotent posture taken by the government.
The upside of picking the Western camp is greater access to military training and technical support from the West and other West-aligned, technologically advanced military powers like Indonesia, Turkey, South Korea, etc..
If we cannot get Gripens, we must buy F-16s. If down the line the US dilly-dallies on maintenance/munitions/upgrdation support, we may be able to get some help from Turkey, Indonesia, etc. to at least keep the fleet flying.

All developed nations are pro-West so picking the Western camp may also benefit us economically at a time when we are about to lose LDC privileges.

Having closer relations with a diverse group of developed nations might help us get diplomatic mediatory support in the event of conflict with India.
Western nations may be difficult with their strings but they are also unlikely to remain quiet if BD is attacked by India.

Moreover, a Westward tilt might see Polar Ice Cream finally gain some appreciation from Bangladeshi consumers.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/643079697251537
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the post above, I agree with this post from DEFSECA.
> 
> Thoughts?


Gripen... absolute nonsense... its a failed system that is a decade and a half without an international sale.

EFT gives BAF operational freedom against both India and the moghs. GB in any conflict between India and BD (extremely remote) will seek to defuse tension and will not automatically take a pro-india position.

BD freindship to all nonsense is a failure but i do believe it is necessary to maintain this figleaf for the future.

Myanmar should not be primary focus, india should be. EFT and J10 theoretically the best combination although I have to be honest I want BD reliance on china to lessen. If they are not with us on the Rohingya issue then they are against us. Let us accept reality, continue with economic engagement and join quad. Change the combination to EFT and second hand F16s.

We require a non western jets, we can not build one, JFT is basically chinese so only ray of hope are the turks who lets be honest wont have capacity to sell to others for atleast 10-15 years at the earliest if not realistically 20. We should engage them and try to join the project.

BAF/BN/BA needs to focus on armed UAV and loitering ammunition and BA needs to acquire indeginious SAM capability. This strategy has worked for Iran and will work for us too. Iran also do not have a airforce.

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## germain

why they needed to blur the twitter handler when the cringe hashtags reveal everything along with their names?

However, from what i have seen so far, the below mentioned and shared page named defres also propagates many false news with cetona loaded. If DTB somehow affiliated with them then it would be a sad discovery


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## PDF

Bruh, Pakistan even inducted J-10CP and look at our economy. WTH is BAF doing? At this point, I would even be happy if India forces there Tejas upon you guys. Something is better than nothing.

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## Bilal9

PDF said:


> Bruh, Pakistan even inducted J-10CP and look at our economy. WTH is BAF doing? At this point, I would even be happy if India forces there Tejas upon you guys. Something is better than nothing.



Hasina govt. is total bootlicker of Indian govt. because they put her in power and support her ongoing things.

India does not want us to have offensively capable fighters and Hasina is going along with it.

Don't you think she would've gone for it already ?

We can certainly afford a few Billion and she would've gotten her cut from it too.

Problem is - Indians have warned Hasina of dire consequences if she buys fighters - she will not risk it.

What Hasina does NOT understand is that we also have leverage.

India benefits to the tune of $45 to $50 Billion yearly from us in uneven trade, employment of Indians and tourism.

This is why they were so eager to help in 1971. But that goodwill wore out a LONG time ago.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Bilal9 said:


> Hasina govt. is total bootlicker of Indian govt. because they put her in power and support her ongoing things.
> 
> India does not want us to have offensively capable fighters and Hasina is going along with it.
> 
> Don't you think she would've gone for it already ?
> 
> We can certainly afford a few Billion and she would've gotten her cut from it too.
> 
> Problem is - Indians have warned Hasina of dire consequences if she buys fighters - she will not risk it.
> 
> What Hasina does NOT understand is that we also have leverage.
> 
> India benefits to the tune of $45 to $50 Billion yearly from us in uneven trade, employment of Indians and tourism.
> 
> This is why they were so eager to help in 1971. But that goodwill wore out a LONG time ago.


Hasina notwithstanding, I still believe the Gripen-E and, later, KAI KF-21 are the best options for Bangladesh. The Gripen-E is available today, but the KF-21 is still some years out. However, long term, Bangladesh should work to solidify its East Asian ties. There's a whole world on the Pacific that's worth exploring in terms of defence, economy, science, medicine, etc.

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## Avicenna

If its not clear already, Bangladesh is not serious about its military capability.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Avicenna said:


> If its not clear already, Bangladesh is not serious about its military capability.


ur economy...our defence...my brains...ur brains...we lead

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> If its not clear already, Bangladesh is not serious about its military capability.


Agreed but what does the military have to do with BAF?

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## Tom-tom

The 🇮🇩 Indonesians and Koreans are bringing out their own jet fighter soon i hope. This could be viable alternative to western, or perhaps the Turkish one?.

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## Abid123

PDF said:


> Bruh, Pakistan even inducted J-10CP and look at our economy. WTH is BAF doing? At this point, I would even be happy if India forces there Tejas upon you guys. Something is better than nothing.


I dont know much about the political situation in Bangladesh... But it could be because no country in the region or the world for that matter is threatening Bangladesh.

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## Abid123

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> Hasina notwithstanding, I still believe the Gripen-E and, later, KAI KF-21 are the best options for Bangladesh. The Gripen-E is available today, but the KF-21 is still some years out. However, long term, Bangladesh should work to solidify its East Asian ties. There's a whole world on the Pacific that's worth exploring in terms of defence, economy, science, medicine, etc.


I would like to see J-10C and Gripen in the BAF.

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## Cookie Monster

Avicenna said:


> Thanks for the exhaustive post.
> 
> I enjoyed reading it greatly.
> 
> Dealing with the US is like buying a beautiful rose with many thorns.
> 
> To get access to the goodies you have to deal with the conditions that come with it.
> 
> IMO this especially applies to Muslim nations for some reason.
> 
> I can’t see the same restrictions on say Singapore or South Korea.
> 
> No such restrictions on European nations or countries like Chile.
> 
> And it seems that Israel for some reasons gets carte blanche.
> 
> Ive always been fascinated by Soviet/Russian gear but they have never performed well in combat.
> 
> I dunno if it’s the gear itself or the tactics.
> 
> But for the BAF, they have a lot of work to do no matter what platform they end up buying.





Avicenna said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/643079697251537
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the post above, I agree with this post from DEFSECA.
> 
> Thoughts?





Bilal9 said:


> Hasina govt. is total bootlicker of Indian govt. because they put her in power and support her ongoing things.
> 
> India does not want us to have offensively capable fighters and Hasina is going along with it.
> 
> Don't you think she would've gone for it already ?
> 
> We can certainly afford a few Billion and she would've gotten her cut from it too.
> 
> Problem is - Indians have warned Hasina of dire consequences if she buys fighters - she will not risk it.
> 
> What Hasina does NOT understand is that we also have leverage.
> 
> India benefits to the tune of $45 to $50 Billion yearly from us in uneven trade, employment of Indians and tourism.
> 
> This is why they were so eager to help in 1971. But that goodwill wore out a LONG time ago.


BD(and by extension Hasina) needs to recognize that BD doesn't have to be a satellite state for India. Her own power may be at risk(India might hold some political influence and be able to get her out of power) but overall..speaking geostrategically...India doesn't have as much power over BD as it would like to have. In fact BD can completely be independent of India.

The reason is simple...India already has two fronts and would really not want to have a third one. This is the prime reason they jumped on the chance in 1971 so they can secure their eastern land border. BD needs to recognize this...and use it as their strength...
...build better relations with China and Pakistan as a deterrent to India...so it can be used as a bargaining chip...giving BD a chance to deal with India politically on an even ground. It doesn't mean BD HAS to be hostile to India...just the possibility of it being hostile would be enough...
...and for that besides building a political relationship with China/Pakistan...u guys would have to build some military relationship as well...along with a nice and lean military power(for which BD certainly has the up and coming economy).

It's true China WILL sell to Myanmar...but will also sell to BD...bcuz that's money on the table. China will be glad to steal away an ally from India...and keep India on edge by threatening the chicken's neck along with BD as an ally. They will sell BD J10 if BD is buying. In fact if BD buys a large enough quantity, I see no reason why they won't allow BD some freedom to make changes(probably for some extra money)...like having BD's own datalink...or even radar and munitions. It opens up possibilities for BD to start JVs with China(or even other countries) and use that to build some local capabilities..take baby steps in building its own defense industry.

This doesn't mean an all in China's camp policy either. BD can buy from both the West and China. IMO BD should steer clear of Gripen...it's all the headache of western restrictions(staying in line) but a longer list of western countries to please. F16 offers an equal or better set of capabilities(depending on the block) to the Gripen. If western route is chosen...might as well go F16s than the Gripen...just keep in mind that US may not be as forthcoming to selling things like AShCM or anything that may seriously pose a threat to India...bcuz they wanna give India as much a freehand as possible from other threats ..so India can keep China busy...
...which is why I think J10 would be a better option for BAF.
BD can buy some western stuff(like attack helicopters, AWACs, radars, etc) just to keep a balance.
Any Russian option shouldn't be considered any longer. They have been making second tier stuff...which may as well be third tier now with recent developments.

In conclusion...BD doesn't have to be afraid of India...with a proper leader at the helm...it is India that will have to bend over backwards for BD to keep their east secure. Hasina might be staying in line dictated by India for her personal stake in power...but that's just a sad state of affairs for any country to have a leader like that. Sadly Pakistan is also suffering from such sell outs at the helm.

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## Bilal9

Cookie Monster said:


> BD(and by extension Hasina) needs to recognize that BD doesn't have to be a satellite state for India. Her own power may be at risk(India might hold some political influence and be able to get her out of power) but overall..speaking geostrategically...India doesn't have as much power over BD as it would like to have. In fact BD can completely be independent of India.
> 
> The reason is simple...India already has two fronts and would really not want to have a third one. This is the prime reason they jumped on the chance in 1971 so they can secure their eastern land border. BD needs to recognize this...and use it as their strength...
> ...build better relations with China and Pakistan as a deterrent to India...so it can be used as a bargaining chip...giving BD a chance to deal with India politically on an even ground. It doesn't mean BD HAS to be hostile to India...just the possibility of it being hostile would be enough...
> ...and for that besides building a political relationship with China/Pakistan...u guys would have to build some military relationship as well...along with a nice and lean military power(for which BD certainly has the up and coming economy).
> 
> It's true China WILL sell to Myanmar...but will also sell to BD...bcuz that's money on the table. China will be glad to steal away an ally from India...and keep India on edge by threatening the chicken's neck along with BD as an ally. They will sell BD J10 if BD is buying. In fact if BD buys a large enough quantity, I see no reason why they won't allow BD some freedom to make changes(probably for some extra money)...like having BD's own datalink...or even radar and munitions. It opens up possibilities for BD to start JVs with China(or even other countries) and use that to build some local capabilities..take baby steps in building its own defense industry.
> 
> This doesn't mean an all in China's camp policy either. BD can buy from both the West and China. IMO BD should steer clear of Gripen...it's all the headache of western restrictions(staying in line) but a longer list of western countries to please. F16 offers an equal or better set of capabilities(depending on the block) to the Gripen. If western route is chosen...might as well go F16s than the Gripen...just keep in mind that US may not be as forthcoming to selling things like AShCM or anything that may seriously pose a threat to India...bcuz they wanna give India as much a freehand as possible from other threats ..so India can keep China busy...
> ...which is why I think J10 would be a better option for BAF.
> BD can buy some western stuff(like attack helicopters, AWACs, radars, etc) just to keep a balance.
> Any Russian option shouldn't be considered any longer. They have been making second tier stuff...which may as well be third tier now with recent developments.
> 
> In conclusion...BD doesn't have to be afraid of India...with a proper leader at the helm...it is India that will have to bend over backwards for BD to keep their east secure. Hasina might be staying in line dictated by India for her personal stake in power...but that's just a sad state of affairs for any country to have a leader like that. Sadly Pakistan is also suffering from such sell outs at the helm.



Very wise words - I will reply when I have a bit more time on my hands. 



Cookie Monster said:


> The reason is simple...India already has two fronts and would really not want to have a third one. This is the prime reason they jumped on the chance in 1971 so they can secure their eastern land border. BD needs to recognize this...and use it as their strength...
> ...build better relations with China and Pakistan as a deterrent to India...so it can be used as a bargaining chip...giving BD a chance to deal with India politically on an even ground. It doesn't mean BD HAS to be hostile to India...just the possibility of it being hostile would be enough...
> ...and for that besides building a political relationship with China/Pakistan...u guys would have to build some military relationship as well...along with a nice and lean military power(for which BD certainly has the up and coming economy).



Most military analysts/strategists in Bangladesh are of a similar opinion. 

We have to "play" the Indians for now, Indians know this too.

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## UKBengali

Cookie Monster said:


> IMO BD should steer clear of Gripen...it's all the headache of western restrictions(staying in line) but a longer list of western countries to please. F16 offers an equal or better set of capabilities(depending on the block) to the Gripen. If western route is chosen...might as well go F16s than the Gripen...just keep in mind that US may not be as forthcoming to selling things like AShCM or anything that may seriously pose a threat to India...





I thiink you need to do a whole lot more research before saying that Gripen is more of a headache than the F-16 for BD.

Once the US gives approval for Gripen engine export, then that is pretty much all the US influence gone as the engine will last the lifetime of the airframe.

Apart from Sweden, BD would only need to keep UK happy as they are the lead partner on the Meteor BVRAAM programme and also supply the Gripen's radar.

I would choose Gripen E over F-16V any day of the week.


PS - Gripen E would not be against India but to take care of Myanmar and so there would be no issues getting support and spare parts/missiles after the planes land in BD soil.. No Western fighter can be trusted against India.


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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> I thiink you need to do a whole lot more research before saying that Gripen is more of a headache than the F-16 for BD.
> 
> Once the US gives approval for Gripen engine export, then that is pretty much all the US influence gone as the engine will last the lifetime of the airframe.
> 
> Apart from Sweden, BD would only need to keep UK happy as they are the lead partner on the Meteor BVRAAM programme and also supply the Gripen's radar.
> 
> I would choose Gripen E over F-16V any day of the week.
> 
> 
> PS - Gripen E would not be against India but to take care of Myanmar and so there would be no issues getting support and spare parts/missiles after the planes land in BD soil.. No Western fighter can be trusted against India.



Whilst ppl like the Gripen it has to be pointed out it has lost every time it has bid against other fighters. It has not had a sale in like 15 years...maybe more.

All these countries can not be wrong.



Tom-tom said:


> The 🇮🇩 Indonesians and Koreans are bringing out their own jet fighter soon i hope. This could be viable alternative to western, or perhaps the Turkish one?.



Turkish jet is probably 20 years away before it can contemplate sale to foreign countries. Korean jet again for internal consumption, again probably a decade away before they have enough bandwidth to consider external sale.

Either way can we really take a chance with either of these two platform without any battle record or as yet nonexistent after sales capacity?


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## UKBengali

mb444 said:


> Whilst ppl like the Gripen it has to be pointed out it has lost every time it has bid against other fighters. It has not had a sale in like 15 years...maybe more.
> 
> All these countries can not be wrong.




Well Sweden sold the Gripen to Brazil back in 2014 and the Brazilians will end up buying something like over 100 of them.

Remember that Gripen is a lower cost but still high performance fighter that has a more modern design than F-16, and so with it's canard delta design will be superior to F-16 in BVR duels. Most of the air to air warfare these days is in the BVR realm.

Those that chose F-35, EFT and Rafale never seriously considered buying the Gripen as they were a step-up in performance levels. Also the F-16 usually won over Gripen due to geopolitical reasons as Sweden does not give you that relationship with a superpower like the USA.

For BD, that wants to keep away from the clutches of the USA and does not want to spend more for EFT/Rafale, then it in a straight contest between Gripen and F-16 it should choose Gripen every single time.

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## Avicenna

Bangladesh will probably buy the last Tejas coming off the line.

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## mb444

UKBengali said:


> Well Sweden sold the Gripen to Brazil back in 2014 and the Brazilians will end up buying something like over 100 of them.
> 
> Remember that Gripen is a lower cost but still high performance fighter that has a more modern design than F-16, and so with it's canard delta design will be superior to F-16 in BVR duels. Most of the air to air warfare these days is in the BVR realm.
> 
> Those that chose F-35, EFT and Rafale never seriously considered buying the Gripen as they were a step-up in performance levels. Also the F-16 usually won over Gripen due to geopolitical reasons as Sweden does not give you that relationship with a superpower like the USA.
> 
> For BD, that wants to keep away from the clutches of the USA and does not want to spend more for EFT/Rafale, then it in a straight contest between Gripen and F-16 it should choose Gripen every single time.



I have nothing against Gripen, just saying they dont have the sale and always looses for various reasons.

BD need to keep that in mind as this brings its own set of risks.

I am partial to the EFT so I would love to have those in BAF.


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## Gomig-21

UKBengali said:


> For BD, that wants to keep away from the clutches of the USA and does not want to spend more for EFT/Rafale, then it in a straight contest between Gripen and F-16 it should choose Gripen every single time.



Despite all that, and it's all true, the Gripen (whether it's the JAS-39A / B / C / D forget about the NG) is over $120 million per aircraft if I'm not mistaken. Brazil, which just ordered 36 NGs aircraft as an initial order paid about $150 million per aircraft but there was also ToT and some being built in Brazil etc. So their situation is slightly different, but it still gives one a clue that the Swedes are way over-pricing an aircraft that frankly probably isn't even close to the F-16 block 52 let alone the latest Viper.

_The Brazilian contract includes 28 single-seat JAS-39Es and eight two-seat JAS-39Fs. The Saab Linkoping factory is responsible for the production of 13 units; Eight units are assembled at Embraer’s plant in Brazil. *What shocked the military world was that the unit price of the JAS-39E was as high as 150 million *USD/unit. Brazil plans to buy a total of 120 Gripen NGs._

The one good thing despite being a single engine aircraft is that it probably has the lowest cost per flight hour which gives huge dividends as far as pilot training goes and having lots of practice hours to become well-honed and top-notch pilots. Just some stuff to consider.

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## Cookie Monster

UKBengali said:


> I thiink you need to do a whole lot more research before saying that Gripen is more of a headache than the F-16 for BD.
> 
> Once the US gives approval for Gripen engine export, then that is pretty much all the US influence gone as the engine will last the lifetime of the airframe.


I am too lazy to dig up this information myself...
...so if u could kindly provide me the numbers for ur claim above...it would be highly appreciated.

It sounds too good to be true...that an engine will last the lifetime of the Gripen's airframe without any support of US.
The engine used in Gripen is license produced by Volvo for the Gripen jet. As far as jet engines go...they require routine maintenance and part replacement to keep them running. I find it highly improbable that a jet engine that's put through so much stress(high velocity of the turbine blade and heat) can last without parts being replaced at certain intervals.


UKBengali said:


> Apart from Sweden, BD would only need to keep UK happy as they are the lead partner on the Meteor BVRAAM programme and also supply the Gripen's radar.
> 
> I would choose Gripen E over F-16V any day of the week.
> 
> 
> PS - Gripen E would not be against India but to take care of Myanmar and so there would be no issues getting support and spare parts/missiles after the planes land in BD soil.. No Western fighter can be trusted against India.


U r conveniently ignoring US influence over UK and Sweden.
As for the jet against Myanmar and not India...well the same applies for F16...a jet doesn't define who the enemies are. So any pros and cons are still the same ..like the west cutting off support in case BD comes into conflict with India.

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## UKBengali

Gomig-21 said:


> Despite all that, and it's all true, the Gripen (whether it's the JAS-39A / B / C / D forget about the NG) is over $120 million per aircraft if I'm not mistaken. Brazil, which just ordered 36 NGs aircraft as an initial order paid about $150 million per aircraft but there was also ToT and some being built in Brazil etc. So their situation is slightly different, but it still gives one a clue that the Swedes are way over-pricing an aircraft that frankly probably isn't even close to the F-16 block 52 let alone the latest Viper.
> 
> _The Brazilian contract includes 28 single-seat JAS-39Es and eight two-seat JAS-39Fs. The Saab Linkoping factory is responsible for the production of 13 units; Eight units are assembled at Embraer’s plant in Brazil. *What shocked the military world was that the unit price of the JAS-39E was as high as 150 million *USD/unit. Brazil plans to buy a total of 120 Gripen NGs._
> 
> The one good thing despite being a single engine aircraft is that it probably has the lowest cost per flight hour which gives huge dividends as far as pilot training goes and having lots of practice hours to become well-honed and top-notch pilots. Just some stuff to consider.




Gripen E has flyaway cost of 80 million US dollars and that is similar to F-16V.

That “unit price” includes infrastructure, maintenance and a weapons package.

As there is now around a 200 production run for Gripen E from both Brazil and Sweden, anyone else ordering should be able to enjoy at least some economies of scale, especially if they order a minimum of 2 squadrons(36 planes).

PS - Gripen E is superior to F-16 Block 52 and similar to F-16V in air to air role. F-16V has better electronics but has an older design that is not as good in the BVR high-altitude flight envelope.


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## UKBengali

Cookie Monster said:


> It sounds too good to be true...that an engine will last the lifetime of the Gripen's airframe without any support of US.
> The engine used in Gripen is license produced by Volvo for the Gripen jet. As far as jet engines go...they require routine maintenance and part replacement to keep them running. I find it highly improbable that a jet engine that's put through so much stress(high velocity of the turbine blade and heat) can last without parts being replaced at certain intervals.





Sweden builds the engine itself with I think only the engine core is wholly supplied by the US.

All maintenance and overhaul can be done by the Swedes and so with a 6000 hour lifespan of the engine is enough for the whole lifecycle of the airframe.

_





Volvo delivers extra life to Gripen engine


Volvo Aero has delivered a number of post-certification enhancements to the RM12 twin turboshaft engine that powers the Saab Gripen.




www.ainonline.com





"Volvo Aero has delivered a number of post-certification enhancements to the RM12 twin turboshaft engine that powers the Saab Gripen. Some of these have been adopted by General Electric, whose F404 was adapted by Volvo for the single-engine Swedish fighter."

"The company also developed a new front frame for the RM12, with a stronger casing that reduced the number of struts by three, to 15, and used a smaller number of stiffer blades. Volvo has worked with GE to develop a full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) for the RM12, having, itself, pioneered a digital engine control for the engine"_


As you can see Volvo really made improvements and unique modifications to the GE engine and not just an assembly job.

All parts that will wear out during the engines 6000 hour expected lifespan are manufactured by Sweden.

Your post, although well meaning, was a little sparse on research on what you were posting about.


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## ghost250

Airforce got the delivery of unmanned aerial vehicles and new prototype aircraft manufactured by BAC will soon conduct their maiden flight!!









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=887029949343151

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## Avicenna

Exclusive footage of the first flight!

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## Rahil Ahmed

State of the art paper airplane incoming

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

ghost250 said:


> Airforce got the delivery of unmanned aerial vehicles and new prototype aircraft manufactured by BAC will soon conduct their maiden flight!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=887029949343151


So out air guard is building "irsha jagano" capabilities without long range air defence covering entire country and at least a respectable number of 4.5gen figher jets! wow...

I know we are poor but chapa marar ki dorkar bhai?

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Exclusive footage of the first flight!



I see Bangla TV programs once in a while about Bangladesh "immediately" launching some aircraft manufacturing program.

These are hosted by notable mainstream media TV channels and attended by leading Air Force veterans and current service people.

So much for current regime propaganda.

The discussion is quite serious and they tell us that they are "at the cusp" of these breakthroughs, close to manufacturing UAVs, helis and "fighters".

I wonder about what these "moger mulluk" Air Force people take the rest of us for - are all the rest of us Bangladeshis this type of gullible idiots?

I mean its one thing when some uneducated idiot claims something like this on their YT channel, which is dismissed easily.

But active duty Air Force personnel?? They should have some shame.

Lately I am starting to see some extremely unimpressive people at the top level of most of the armed services. They can neither articulate an English narrative, nor Bangla for that matter. Seems everyone halfway qualified in the armed services has left the country and the only people left are these chamchas to the current regime. Our former Army chief was an obtuse example.

The other day I saw a Navy "rear admiral" guy who could barely have been forty or so and rather uneducated. Standards for military academy has taken a definite dive. Boggles the mind.

I am starting to think, this is all by deliberate design, helped by Hasina and her work-masters in Delhi. The way to kill an Air Force (or Army, Navy for that matter) is by not only denying training with better platforms and deny them better equipment to boot, but also picking unqualified, uneducated and untalented ineffective leaders from within the ranks, so their capability remains always worse than the neighboring country, reducing any threat to them.

The plan is long term, and RAW is succeeding for sure.

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## leonblack08

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh will probably buy the last Tejas coming off the line.


I guess that'll also be a "stop-gap" measure...as we wait for the 9th generation fighter jets.

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## Bilal9

I was watching this rather amusing video and then realized at least the Africans built something.

Because of these RAW suwars we haven't.


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## Avicenna

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595299538264522753
BAF is an embarassment.

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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595299538264522753
> BAF is an embarassment.



RAW suwar ra amader hat pura bendhey rakhsey. They call the shots.

Hasina jotodin aasey, Army, NAvy, AF keo kono advanced item pabena.

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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Avicenna said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595299538264522753
> BAF is an embarassment.


Please call them BTF, Bangladesh Trainer Force...

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## Tagaung

Avicenna said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595299538264522753
> BAF is an embarassment.


long time no seen guys

That FTC-2000 is to replace F-6 and F-7 squadrons. 
SU-30 SME is meant for the augmentation of MIG-29s forces. 
JF-17 will perform an attack aircraft role, formerly performed by A-5 Nanchang squadrons. 

As long as you have the proper budget and *political* *will,* you can buy Chinese and Russian aircrafts. it is not that impressive.

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## Destranator

Avicenna said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595299538264522753
> BAF is an embarassment.


You're being unresonable. MAF is a military force, why even compare?
Biman, Fedex, Ryan Air, etc. do not operate fighter jets earlier.


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## David Alayat

Tagaung said:


> long time no seen guys
> 
> That FTC-2000 is to replace F-6 and F-7 squadrons.
> SU-30 SME is meant for the augmentation of MIG-29s forces.
> JF-17 will perform an attack aircraft role, formerly performed by A-5 Nanchang squadrons.
> 
> As long as you have the proper budget and *political* *will,* you can buy Chinese and Russian aircrafts. it is not that impressive.


These purchases were made under civilian government. Can military government continue spending like this or can they keep up with maintaining them since they are struggling financially


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## Bilal9

Avicenna said:


> Exclusive footage of the first flight!



I nominate this the most hilarious post of the year in the Bangladesh section. @Avicenna bhai Zindabad !!


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## Tagaung

David Alayat said:


> These purchases were made under civilian government. Can military government continue spending like this or can they keep up with maintaining them since they are struggling financially


Yes, the purchases of Su-30 and JF-17 were made under the civilian government. But the civilian government had nothing to do with the procurement of military assets. FTC-2000 order is made under the military regime.


The whole process went like this. The parliament of Myanmar devises and allocates the budget of the ministry of defense along with other ministries based on the tax revenue of the previous year.
And the ministry of defense held budget allocation meetings with the commander in Chief of the Army, the Navy, the airforce, and the joint operation Chief. They decide how much money to be spend on personal payroll, retirements, operational costs, maintenance, and *procurement. *

That is why the procurement of MM military is in line with the whole defense strategy and coherent on the national scale. 
*No* *civilian* *politician* was in the whole decision-making process apart from the congressional budget approval.

This is why I think the Myanmar military has more military assets than Bangladesh despite half the budget of Bangladesh's military.

In BD case, the reigning party has a lot of influence in procurement matters, which makes *the military procurements not in line with the national defense strategy *but rather on the* wishes and whims of the politicians*.


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## David Alayat

Tagaung said:


> Yes, the purchases of Su-30 and JF-17 were made under the civilian government. But the civilian government had nothing to do with the procurement of military assets. FTC-2000 order is made under the military regime.
> 
> 
> The whole process went like this. The parliament of Myanmar devises and allocates the budget of the ministry of defense along with other ministries based on the tax revenue of the previous year.
> And the ministry of defense held budget allocation meetings with the commander in Chief of the Army, the Navy, the airforce, and the joint operation Chief. They decide how much money to be spend on personal payroll, retirements, operational costs, maintenance, and *procurement. *
> 
> That is why the procurement of MM military is in line with the whole defense strategy and coherent on the national scale.
> *No* *civilian* *politician* was in the whole decision-making process apart from the congressional budget approval.
> 
> This is why I think the Myanmar military has more military assets than Bangladesh despite half the budget of Bangladesh's military.
> 
> In BD case, the reigning party has a lot of influence in procurement matters, which makes *the military procurements not in line with the national defense strategy *but rather on the* wishes and whims of the politicians*.


How about keeping up with maintenance? Because Su 30 SM2 are really expensive. I’m not Bangladeshi but I have interest in military build up of Myanmar especially Navy and Airforce in past decade. If the general can juggle well in between political interest and military is all well and fine. My worry is if they can’t it can set the time back to pro democracy era when General Than Shwe ruling time. Also for Navy, is there any chance to see 135m Frigate with VLS in 2023?


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## Avicenna

Any word on the remaining 4 Mig-29s that needed to be sent to Belarus?

@Arthur How did you know no new fighters would be coming before at least 2024-2025?


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> Any word on the remaining 4 Mig-29s that needed to be sent to Belarus?
> 
> @Arthur How did you know no new fighters would be coming before at least 2024-2025?




I guess no-one actually knows but speculating from the fact that it will be 2023 soon and no new contract has been signed.

BAF section is dead now and we just need a CONTRACT for a squadron of 4+ gen Western jets and it would come ALIVE immediately.

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## David Alayat

UKBengali said:


> I guess no-one actually knows but speculating from the fact that it will be 2023 soon and no new contract has been signed.
> 
> BAF section is dead now and we just need a CONTRACT for a squadron of 4+ gen Western jets and it would come ALIVE immediately.


What will be of 2030? No new fighters and Navy need to replace the second hand frigate from China soon. I think it’s time Bangladesh arm forces need to think realistic and make a plan that could close the gap with other nations in region.

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## Arthur

Avicenna said:


> Any word on the remaining 4 Mig-29s that needed to be sent to Belarus?
> 
> @Arthur How did you know no new fighters would be coming before at least 2024-2025?


1. AFAIK they were scheduled to be sent by mid 22. Progress unknown.

2. Analysis of available information & patterns.

Though I am still inclined to extend that time line of 2025 a bit, but I may not right now.


Main problem is, What BAF and politicians are on different alignments.

For the time being let's enjoy the shitty air shows by the glorious chair force.

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## mb444

Avicenna said:


> Any word on the remaining 4 Mig-29s that needed to be sent to Belarus?
> 
> @Arthur How did you know no new fighters would be coming before at least 2024-2025?



I am not certain of this given Ukraine situation. Very possible that we may incur sanction if these are sent to belarus, hopefully that wont be the case.

BAF has spectacularly failed on the job and there is not a single ray of hope in the horizon. Its a sad scenario.

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## Inception-06

Bangladesh should buy Jf-17 from China.


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