# Govt set to convert Gilgit-Baltistan into fifth province



## Kabira

ISLAMABAD – The government has decided to convert Gilgit-Baltistan (GB) into a fifth province of Pakistan.

*According to Geo news, Inter-Provincial Coordination Minister Riaz Hussain Pirzadar has said that a committee headed by Special Assistant to Prime Minister Sartaj Aziz had proposed giving the status of a province to GB. The government has approved the suggestion.*

Pirzada added that a bill to amend the Constitution of Pakistan in this regard will be presented in the National Assembly following the suggestion.

He added that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif will also utilise his special powers to grant GB the status of a province.
https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/headline/govt-set-to-convert-gilgit-baltistan-into-fifth-province/

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## American Pakistani

I hope they do it properly by inviting UN observers and helding a referendum.

Gilgit Baltistan should not suffer due to indian occupation of IOK but at the same time the process has to be crystal clear so that in future no more issue of GB rises and all focus can be on IOK.

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## bananarepublic



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## Talwar e Pakistan

Gilgit Baltistan was a region conquered by the Dogra regime; it's people underwent brutal genocide and persecution under the Dogra. Good to see it finally becomes a province and is seen as separate from J&K.

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## VCheng

Giving the status of a province is NOT the same as declaring GB a province.

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## ABCharlie

Good. The status should be given. It is high time now.


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## Brickwall

Does this mean, Pakistan is officially dumping Kashmir Resolution in UN...

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## VCheng

Brickwall said:


> Does this mean, Pakistan is officially dumping Kashmir Resolution in UN...



The legal issues will have to be considered carefully before making any changes by either side in their respective claims.

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## Sam.

Brickwall said:


> Does this mean, Pakistan is officially dumping Kashmir Resolution in UN...


Yes.


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## Levina

That's a good news.

Now article 370 can be abolished in our Kashmir too.

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## salarsikander

Levina said:


> That's a good news.
> 
> Now article 370 can be abolished in our Kashmir too.


Will that in anyway reduce the suffering there ?

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## Sam.

salarsikander said:


> Will that in anyway reduce the suffering there ?


How is life?

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Brickwall said:


> Does this mean, Pakistan is officially dumping Kashmir Resolution in UN...


Didn't india gave state status to IOK while keeping it dispute.
We will give it a province status while also keeping a constitutional cover to it's status as a dispute.
Also GB was not part of dogra raj when the raja betrayed the people and signed the paper.

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## Levina

salarsikander said:


> Will that in anyway reduce the suffering there ?


Yes sir.
Article 370 stops others from buying property in Kashmir and ergo no corporate is interested in moving to the state.
Lack of economic prosperity is the main reason our youth falls for the job as radicalists offered to them.

Ab aap bhi happy
Hum bhi happy.

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Brickwall said:


> Does this mean, Pakistan is officially dumping Kashmir Resolution in UN...


Didn't india gave state status to IOK while keeping it dispute.
We will give it a province status while also keeping a constitutional cover to it's status as a dispute.
Also GB was not part of dogra raj when the raja betrayed the people and signed the paper.


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## Brickwall

naveedullahkhankhattak said:


> Didn't india gave state status to IOK while keeping it dispute.
> We will give it a province status while also keeping a constitutional cover to it's status as a dispute.
> Also GB was not part of dogra raj when the raja betrayed the people and signed the paper.




Entire J&K is considered as single territory, Including India, Pakistan and Chinese part.

In India it has special provision where Indians cant buy any property inside J&K. 

So question was asked, If change any territory or population demography doesn't original UN resolution stay cancelled ?

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## salarsikander

Levina said:


> Yes sir.
> Article 370 stops others from buying property in Kashmir and ergo no corporate is interested in moving to the state.
> Lack of economic prosperity is the main reason our youth falls for the job as radicalists offered to them.
> 
> Ab aap bhi happy
> Hum bhi happy.


But apparently India spends more on Kashmir than any other state? 
Tbh, Pakistan can barely feed its own population let alone kashmiris.

If India fails to provide them with basic necessaties , a country 6 times our size, I wonder what a piss poor country like pak can do for them


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## salarsikander

Sam. said:


> How is life?


 didn't catch your last


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## ABCharlie

Brickwall said:


> Does this mean, Pakistan is officially dumping Kashmir Resolution in UN...



Nahi abhi India ke itnay ache din nahi aaye


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## Sam.

salarsikander said:


> didn't catch your last


Exactly.


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## Sam.

ABCharlie said:


> Nahi abhi India ke itnay ache din nahi aaye


Kashmir k toh aa gaye?

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## salarsikander

Sam. said:


> Exactly.


Can you b more specific. One liners are not allowed on PDF. You will be reported next time for making one liners

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## Panther 57

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Giving the status of a province is NOT the same as declaring GB a province.


status was given long time back when governor was appointed. کچھ بھی نہ کہا اور کہ بھی گۓ


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## YeBeWarned

First lets make FATA a province ..


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## Sam.

salarsikander said:


> Can you b more specific. One liners are not allowed on PDF. You will be reported next time for making one liners


What you started in this thread has no relevance on the topic so refrain from making off topic comments.Now on topic i think it will be good gesture for the patriotic gilgit people.

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## salarsikander

Sam. said:


> What you started in this thread has no relevance on the topic so refrain from making off topic comments.Now on topic i think it will be good gesture for the patriotic gilgit people.


Ofc it has. She said the bill will be introduced. So I asked will that reduce the suffering ?


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## Kabira

Levina said:


> That's a good news.
> 
> Now article 370 can be abolished in our Kashmir too.



What article 370 have to do with GB being 5th province which is demand of local people? If Kashmiris want to remove article 370 then go ahead. Actually its not like India ask anything from occupied Kashmiris before doing it.

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## PakForce

This is slap in the face of our brave men in uniform that are fighting for Kashmir. 

We should not concede until we are victorious.


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## Kabira

Starlord said:


> First lets make FATA a province ..



FATA is being merged with KPK.

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## Pakistani E

Levina said:


> That's a good news.
> 
> Now article 370 can be abolished in our Kashmir too.



Nothing that India hasn't already done. Why do Indians always pretend to be surprised by decisions Pakistan takes that India has already done?


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## Kabira

PakForce said:


> This is slap in the face of our brave men in uniform that are fighting for Kashmir.
> 
> We should not concede until we are victorious.



If IoK issue isn't resolved in next 50 years, you want GB to remain in limbo?

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Kashmir is a dispute when we give gilgit baltistan provincial status. it is atoot any when we don't. Indians are confused.

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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> Actually its not like India ask anything from occupied Kashmiris before doing it.


In the elections of 2014 75% ppl had voted and BJP (a Hindu party) came in power with Muslim party PDP. 
We don't call it "asking" in India we call it our right to vote. 
Don't know how it works in your country.



Pakistani Exile said:


> Nothing that India hasn't already done. Why do Indians always pretend to be surprised by decisions Pakistan takes that India has already done?


Should that mean Pakistan emulates India? 
Thats also a good news because we have been a successful democracy since last 70 years.

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## Kabira

Levina said:


> In the elections of 2014 75% ppl had voted and BJP (a Hindu party) came in power with Muslim party PDP.
> We don't call it "asking" in India we call it our right to vote.
> Don't know how it works in your country.



Rigged elections, soon we got actual results when hundreds of innocent protesters Kashmiris were killied and thousands blinded by hindu extremist leader. Pakistan can't stop India from removing article 370, go ahead.

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## VCheng

Panther 57 said:


> status was given long time back when governor was appointed. کچھ بھی نہ کہا اور کہ بھی گۓ



Not really. Are there MNAs elected from GB in the Parliament?


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## PakForce

save_ghenda said:


> If IoK issue isn't resolved in next 50 years, you want GB to remain in limbo?



It's not limbo, you indian. 

http://www.kashmirreader.com/2017/0...ltistan-means-stabbing-kashmiris-in-the-back/


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## Kabira

PakForce said:


> It's not limbo, you indian.
> 
> http://www.kashmirreader.com/2017/0...ltistan-means-stabbing-kashmiris-in-the-back/



Yes for GB people its limbo. Give them due rights or else IoK ke chakar mein GB bhi hath se jaye gha.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

Starlord said:


> First lets make FATA a province ..


FATA is being merged into KPK

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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> Rigged elections, soon we got actual results when hundreds of innocent protesters Kashmiris were killied and thousands blinded by hindu extremist leader. Pakistan can't stop India from removing article 370, go ahead.



I see where you are coming from. So I understand why you have such confirmation bias.

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## Rashid Mahmood

It's about time.
Next is Kashmir.

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## Thorough Pro

Are you out of your mind? Why the heck do we need any foreigners in our internal administrative matter?




American Pakistani said:


> I hope they do it properly by inviting UN observers and helding a referendum.
> 
> Gilgit Baltistan should not suffer due to indian occupation of IOK but at the same time the process has to be crystal clear so that in future no more issue of GB rises and all focus can be on IOK.

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## Kabira

Levina said:


> I see where you are coming from. So I understand why you have such confirmation bias.



But seriously Pkistan already decided to make GB province. But maybe with some differences till referendum is held in GB and IoK. Soon we will know more.


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## Finer

The matter of Kashmir issue will be tested long which suggests the issues cannot be solved overnight. That should not alienate the needs for Gilgilt Baltistan and its status in Pakistan. Good move. About time i say, Cheer!

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## Levina

save_ghenda said:


> But seriously Pkistan already decided to make GB province. But maybe with some differences till referendum is held in GB and IoK. Soon we will know more.


We are watching you.


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## PakForce

save_ghenda said:


> Yes for GB people its limbo. Give them due rights or else IoK ke chakar mein GB bhi hath se jaye gha.



U obviously not read article I posted... U just talk. Do not waste my time. If U not read, go watch bollywood movie (since u in luv with india)... otherwise read and address accordingly.


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## Kompromat

Awesome


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## RangeMaster

Thats good...!
Give them what they want.


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## GreenFoe

*My view:*

Interesting yet anticipated move from Pakistan's part to further facilitate and null any opposition to the Chinese corridor. Will this change India's position to GB? No! Will it help Pak in any way? It could by more integration into the mainland. What about the legal status? India's claim stems from the transfer of powers by the maharajah of the whole state of _Riyasat-e-Jammu-o-Kashmir_ while Pakistan as of now _legally(_there are some other arguments by Pak like Muslim majority but they are more emotional than legal_) _more or less used the 1948 UNSC unbinding resolution which makes the Muslim state a party to the resolution of the erstwhile state_._ The question now arises - if there were no legal repercussions why has Pakistan not taken the aforesaid decision at an earlier occasion? My personal opinion is that Pakistani politician(_I still not believe the same about the currently weakened Army_) have more or less accepted that they will not get any part of the Indian state. Moreover, we have to see whether this decision goes through or scuttles under pressure from Jihadis and Pak army.

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## volatile

Levina said:


> Now article 370 can be abolished in our Kashmir too.


Do try this

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## AliMentosMoziilla

Good step taken but still, Kashmir will be ours!


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## PakistaniNawab

Indians are hypocrites they took jundagh even though the nawab wanted to accede to pakistan but kashmir is treated differently if india is a so called democracy then why not have a referendum if you want peace in the sub continent then settle the issue I myself orginally from azad kashmir I want peace in the sub continent.

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## Panther 57

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Not really. Are there MNAs elected from GB in the Parliament?


http://gbla.gog.pk/frontend/web/page/history MNAs not there due to other objectives. By mentioning governor I meant a province in literal sense. Academically there are things to be ironed out.


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## VCheng

Panther 57 said:


> http://gbla.gog.pk/frontend/web/page/history MNAs not there due to other objectives. By mentioning governor I meant a province in literal sense. Academically there are things to be ironed out.



The most important aspect are the _legal _issues, not political and not academic. Changing the status of a disputed territory is bound to be complicated.


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## Areesh

Pakistan should immediately make GB the 5th province. 

And there are strong reasons for doing that.

1. GB people overwhelmingly want to be part of Pakistan and want a provincial status. We all know that
2. GB can be a province and can also not violate UN resolution at the same time. The legal experts can work on this.
3. India has no interest in resolving Kashmir issue and won't mind killing the whole civilian population of IOK to continue its occupation or continuing with status quo for next 100 years.
4. So if India has no interest in resolving Kashmir issue then it is unjust to punish people of GB for bullish behavior of India.

People of IOK need to understand that we cannot wait next 100 years and punish people of more than 72000 sq km who are fiercely patriotic and love this country. They need to devise a strategy for their freedom just like people o GB acted on their own for their freedom. 

GB can no longer be made to suffer for historical mistakes of Kashmiris and brutal occupation of India.



salarsikander said:


> Will that in anyway reduce the suffering there ?



Yes instead of paramilitary like CRPF it would be civilian RSS goons from different parts of India who would shoot pellets in eyes of Kashmiris.

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## Verve

Excellent news bringing GB in mainstream and giving GB public what they deserve and seek.


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## Areesh

Radio Mirchi said:


> Thank you Pakistan for diluting the Kashmir issue. This is a positive step by Pakistan towards maintaining the status quo in J&K. Although I may not agree with the reasons you are giving.
> 1. I disagree that GB people want to be part of Pakistan. Turtok village and surrounding area is also part of GB region who would like to be with India.
> 2. You separate GB from J&K and you lose moral claim over Kashmir. Now your legal eagle can start looking for loop holes but fact will remain fact.
> 3. Unlike Pakistan, India never uses its airforce on its own citizens. Kashmiris are our citizens and we will never use air force or deadly weapons to contain an insurgency like you do in FATA and Baluchistan. By separating GB from J&K you are helping us maintain status quo for a thousand years or until all parts of J&K unites with India.
> 4. So you admit that you have been punishing the people of GB region of J&K and you will continue doing so with the rest of J&K under your occupation. If you are making one part of J&K a full province then what crime is done by the remaining people?
> 
> Thank you for realizing that 1000 years war would only bring misery. I hope the separatists of J&K will now realize that Pakistan can not wait for 100 years. It cares for GB people more than the Kashmiri speaking people under its occupation. I foresee the beginning of a prolonged peace in J&K.



India doesn't need anything from Pakistan to dilute anything. IT is already killing and blinding kids in its effort to dilute kashmir issue.

1. You can disagree all you want but that won't change the reality. GB wants to be part of Pakistan. Turtuk if under our administration would have wanted the same. Very weak logic like always by Indians to deny reality.

2. We can too play with legalities like India is playing with them for past 70 years. Pakistan waiting for the resolution of Kashmir allowing India to play around words and technicalities was a big mistake. This mistake needs to be reversed. Our moral claim would be there it is right now even after making GB fifth province. Indians never cared about Pakistan's moral claim so Pakistan shouldn't bother about Indian claims today either. Our support to Kashmiri freedom movement would continue in the similar manner just like today. 

3. Pakistan faced deaths of 50000 civilians to use airforce against terrorists and not against civilians like Indians normally do in IOK. One APS like massacre in India and I am sure India would have been even using chemical weapons against civilians in IOK like they are shamelessly using guns to kill animals against kashmiri teenagers. India never needed help from Pakistan to continue status quo so it is about time Pakistan cuts the sh!t and show India a middle finger on GB that should have been shown long ago.

4. Yes it was a punishment. It didn't resulted in massacres like in IOK but still it created a lot of problems for patriotic people of GB. AJK people don't want to be province of Pakistan till Kashmir is resolved. We respect their opinion and aren't making them our province. GB of people want to be our province and hence we are respecting their position too albeit late.

You can keep wishing for "separatists" to accept your occupation. Not our problem. Its time for Pakistan to give people of GB what they deserve and call India's bluff of legalities and technicalities. No need to further play by these bogus technicalities and legalities when you are facing a land grabber like India.

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## HAIDER

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The most important aspect are the _legal _issues, not political and not academic. Changing the status of a disputed territory is bound to be complicated.


GB people been asking for this status for 50 years. It's Chinese pressure otherwise they keep on hanging to keep India happy. China want GB once for all officially a part of Pakistan. These people been oppressed by " commissionery system " , which is curse for the development of that area. No elected official and abuse of fund by few govt officials appointed by central govt.
China want to secure CPEC through GB. In coming days India might raise the status of GB in UN to make CPEC controversial.

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## ABCharlie

Areesh said:


> India doesn't need anything from Pakistan to dilute anything. IT is already killing and blinding kids in its effort to dilute kashmir issue.
> 
> 1. You can disagree all you want but that won't change the reality. GB wants to be part of Pakistan. Turtuk if under our administration would have wanted the same. Very weak logic like always by Indians to deny reality.
> 
> 2. We can too play with legalities like India is playing with them for past 70 years. Pakistan waiting for the resolution of Kashmir allowing India to play around words and technicalities was a big mistake. This mistake needs to be reversed. Our moral claim would be there it is right now even after making GB fifth province. Indians never cared about Pakistan's moral claim so Pakistan shouldn't bother about Indian claims today either. Our support to Kashmiri freedom movement would continue in the similar manner just like today.
> 
> 3. Pakistan faced deaths of 50000 civilians to use airforce against terrorists and not against civilians like Indians normally do in IOK. One APS like massacre in India and I am sure India would have been even using chemical weapons against civilians in IOK like they are shamelessly using guns to kill animals against kashmiri teenagers. India never needed help from Pakistan to continue status quo so it is about time Pakistan cuts the sh!t and show India a middle finger on GB that should have been shown long ago.
> 
> 4. Yes it was a punishment. It didn't resulted in massacres like in IOK but still it created a lot of problems for patriotic people of GB. AJK people don't want to be province of Pakistan till Kashmir is resolved. We respect their opinion and aren't making them our province. GB of people want to be our province and hence we are respecting their position too albeit late.
> 
> You can keep wishing for "separatists" to accept your occupation. Not our problem. Its time for Pakistan to give people of GB what they deserve and call India's bluff of legalities and technicalities. No need to further play by these bogus technicalities and legalities when you are facing a land grabber like India.



Hear, hear! 
I ve been advocating this for a while now.

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## Areesh

ABCharlie said:


> Hear, hear!
> I ve been advocating this for a while now.



Same here. Its like India can do whatever sh!t it wants to in its occupied territory from establishing new graveyards to mass r@pes like Kunan Pushpora but Pakistan shouldn't give a simple status to its people just because of few legalities. Where are the same legalities when Indians are using guns meant to tame animals against civilians in Srinagar?

F*ck this. Lets welcome GB to the family of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

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## ABCharlie

Areesh said:


> Same here. Its like India can do whatever sh!t it wants to in its occupied territory from establishing new graveyards to mass r@pes like Kunan Pushpora but Pakistan shouldn't give a simple status to its people just because of few legalities. Where are the same legalities when Indians are using guns meant to tame animals against civilians in Srinagar?
> 
> F*ck this. Lets welcome GB to the family of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.


 
Yes. Un becharo ne kya bigara hai? And thankfully, with CPEC, the incentive to do so is high.

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## Kabira

Levina said:


> We are watching you.



Indians can deploy 700.000 foreign army in IoK to harass locals. Can use force on innocents demanding their rights but god forbid if Pakistan extend due rights to people of G-B. 

This will not change anything as far as disputed nature of IoK is concerned.

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## VCheng

HAIDER said:


> China want this part once for all officially a part of Pakistan.



But how to do this is the real question, given Pakistan's stance over the entire Kashmir issue?


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## HAIDER

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> But how to do this is the real question, given Pakistan's stance over the entire Kashmir issue?


Integration of GB won't hurt the entire Kashmir claim. UN resolution address Indian Kashmir plebiscite . Even if Indians want they can call plebiscite on whole region.


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## VCheng

HAIDER said:


> Integration of GB won't hurt the entire Kashmir claim. UN resolution address Indian Kashmir plebiscite . Even if Indians want they can call plebiscite on whole region.



Please do read the UN Resolutions and the Simla Agreement for yourself before commenting any further. (Just a polite suggestion.)

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## Radio Mirchi

Areesh said:


> India doesn't need anything from Pakistan to dilute anything. IT is already killing and blinding kids in its effort to dilute kashmir issue.
> 
> 1. You can disagree all you want but that won't change the reality. GB wants to be part of Pakistan. Turtuk if under our administration would have wanted the same. Very weak logic like always by Indians to deny reality.
> 
> 2. We can too play with legalities like India is playing with them for past 70 years. Pakistan waiting for the resolution of Kashmir allowing India to play around words and technicalities was a big mistake. This mistake needs to be reversed. Our moral claim would be there it is right now even after making GB fifth province. Indians never cared about Pakistan's moral claim so Pakistan shouldn't bother about Indian claims today either. Our support to Kashmiri freedom movement would continue in the similar manner just like today.
> 
> 3. Pakistan faced deaths of 50000 civilians to use airforce against terrorists and not against civilians like Indians normally do in IOK. One APS like massacre in India and I am sure India would have been even using chemical weapons against civilians in IOK like they are shamelessly using guns to kill animals against kashmiri teenagers. India never needed help from Pakistan to continue status quo so it is about time Pakistan cuts the sh!t and show India a middle finger on GB that should have been shown long ago.
> 
> 4. Yes it was a punishment. It didn't resulted in massacres like in IOK but still it created a lot of problems for patriotic people of GB. AJK people don't want to be province of Pakistan till Kashmir is resolved. We respect their opinion and aren't making them our province. GB of people want to be our province and hence we are respecting their position too albeit late.
> 
> You can keep wishing for "separatists" to accept your occupation. Not our problem. Its time for Pakistan to give people of GB what they deserve and call India's bluff of legalities and technicalities. No need to further play by these bogus technicalities and legalities when you are facing a land grabber like India.


When Pakistan is doing our job then why should we bother? I already thank you for that in my previous post.

By calling a logic a weak logic it does not become weak. You have to counter it with proper logic. The moment you say that if Turtuk was part of Pakistan administration they too would have gone with Pakistan, it means its the wish of Pakistan administration and anyone under your administration will not dare to go against Pakistan. No wonder you are not upholding the condition of UN resolution to withdraw your armed forces from J&K under your occupation as you fear that people will start exercising their free will.

On one hand you are separating GB area of J&K and on the other hand you plan to support the freedom struggle of left over kashmiris. What kind of logic is this? or it just suits your agenda.

APS attack is hardly comparable with Mumbai Attacks but do you know how many people were hanged to death in Pakistan in a short span of time after APS killings and how many in India in the aftermath of Mumbai Attacks? Airforce is used when the armed forces are too chickened to launch a ground assault. Indian forces never seek help of airforce and rather use pellet guns, chilli powder grenades etc.

Whenever there is large scale oppression or massacre it immediately reflects in people taking refuge in another country. We see Rohingyas, Syrians, Tibetans but you never hear about Kashmiris leaving their land to save their life except off course Kashmiri Pandits. So the world is now aware what is truth and what is propaganda.

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## saiyan0321

@Areesh you are wasting your time with trolls from across the border. When a troll compares a fully armed terror outfit which was well equipped and well trained and knew how to use the terrain and held large swathes of land with innocent unarmed stone Pelters then you can guess the common sense levels and intellect of the said poster. Best not to waste time with them. Fact is that these trolls enjoyed deaths and attacks in Pakistan and they long for those days when everyday attacks happened everywhere. They were convinced that this was our end yet we survived and not only survived but pushed the terrorists back and handed them a severe defeat that saw a massive reduction in attacks all over Pakistan. We also dealt a finishing blow to the baluch terror outfits which burns them the most. They can't stand this so they come up with rubbish like " bombing their own civilians". Remember they are a brainwashed lot and their brains are constantly bombarded with propaganda by their media. Best to ignore them and let the trolls wallow in their own self hate and pity. 


Anyhow this was long over due. The region of gilgit baltistan fought against the dogra raj and secured their freedom and wilfully became part of Pakistan only to see them be estranged in a constitutional limbo. At least AJK has their own Parliament and prime minister. Gilgit baltistan had nothing until 2010 when they finally got provincial govt but again they severely lacked national representation and they deserve national representation. They are loyal Pakistan who have fought and shed blood for Pakistan. Its time we bring them in the fold. We need to start correcting mistakes and the mistake of not giving gilgit baltistan equal representative opportunity in Pakistan needs to be corrected. 

@shimshali @WAJsal 

Its been long enough.

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## saurav jha

Totally Support it.it would be helpful in solving kashmir issue that making loc international border. Win win to both.


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## VCheng

saurav jha said:


> Totally Support it.it would be helpful in solving kashmir issue that making loc international border. Win win to both.



So which side is more likely to propose such a solution first?


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## Awi

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Please do read the UN Resolutions and the Simla Agreement for yourself before commenting any further. (Just a polite suggestion.)



Sir, with great respect, mention a single main point from Simla Agreement that India has not violated?


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## VCheng

Awi said:


> Sir, with great respect, mention a single main point from Simla Agreement that India has not violated?



The point here is to understand _Pakistan's _position to determine the best way forward with this issue.

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## Awi

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The point here is to understand _Pakistan's _position to determine the *best way forward* with this issue.



"*best way forward*" is the key here I think, NOT adherence to Simla Agreement over Pakistan's future, though United nations should be taken into confidence.

You are a man with wisdom, do you think Pakistan can go about this easily? or any pointers Pakistan should take into consideration?


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## axisofevil

Talwar e Pakistan said:


> Gilgit Baltistan was a region conquered by the Dogra regime; it's people underwent brutal genocide and persecution under the Dogra. Good to see it finally becomes a province and is seen as separate from J&K.





How far you wanna go back in history to see true historical facts of this region? If you wanna bring up Dogra, then we can bring up a lot more backed by evidence.

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## VCheng

Awi said:


> "*best way forward*" is the key here I think, NOT adherence to Simla Agreement over Pakistan's future, though United nations should be taken into confidence.
> 
> You are a man with wisdom, do you think Pakistan can go about this easily? or any pointers Pakistan should take into consideration?



The Simla Agreement remains in force and is regarded as valid by both sides, and hence applicable.

(Thank you, but my wisdom here is regarded rather poorly.  )


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## axisofevil

save_ghenda said:


> What article 370 have to do with GB being 5th province which is demand of local people? If Kashmiris want to remove article 370 then go ahead. Actually its not like India ask anything from occupied Kashmiris before doing it.





Nothing to do with Kashmiri's.....the Indian gov't and the majority of Indian ppl including Kashmiri's want article 370 to be abolished. Now with Pakistan doing this to pacify Chinese concerned about India claims and CPEC, this will allow India to finally push thru the abolition of Article 370 once and for all. 


Pakistan's action will ultimately nullify any past pacts or agreements....LOL



Even if India doesn't want to go that route, it can always bring up the issue in the UN.. where China haters will fully support us haha



Pakistani Exile said:


> Nothing that India hasn't already done. Why do Indians always pretend to be surprised by decisions Pakistan takes that India has already done?



Oh really so India has got rid of Article 370 LOL....And you wonder why we are so surprised.



Radio Mirchi said:


> When Pakistan is doing our job then why should we bother? I already thank you for that in my previous post.
> 
> By calling a logic a weak logic it does not become weak. You have to counter it with proper logic. The moment you say that if Turtuk was part of Pakistan administration they too would have gone with Pakistan, it means its the wish of Pakistan administration and anyone under your administration will not dare to go against Pakistan. No wonder you are not upholding the condition of UN resolution to withdraw your armed forces from J&K under your occupation as you fear that people will start exercising their free will.
> 
> On one hand you are separating GB area of J&K and on the other hand you plan to support the freedom struggle of left over kashmiris. What kind of logic is this? or it just suits your agenda.
> 
> APS attack is hardly comparable with Mumbai Attacks but do you know how many people were hanged to death in Pakistan in a short span of time after APS killings and how many in India in the aftermath of Mumbai Attacks? Airforce is used when the armed forces are too chickened to launch a ground assault. Indian forces never seek help of airforce and rather use pellet guns, chilli powder grenades etc.
> 
> Whenever there is large scale oppression or massacre it immediately reflects in people taking refuge in another country. We see Rohingyas, Syrians, Tibetans but you never hear about Kashmiris leaving their land to save their life except off course Kashmiri Pandits. So the world is now aware what is truth and what is propaganda.





Don't worry bro....you can't talk logic to folks on this website....as you know why....lol.....anyway let them make this move....it will open many possibilities of us in the future.

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## Kabira

Awi said:


> "*best way forward*" is the key here I think, NOT adherence to Simla Agreement over Pakistan's future, though United nations should be taken into confidence.
> 
> You are a man with wisdom, do you think Pakistan can go about this easily? or any pointers Pakistan should take into consideration?



UN is hopeless and Pakistan can't take back IoK through military means. Status quo will continue in IoK which basically mean indigenous struggle against 700.000 strong Indian army. Meanwhile Pakistan can go ahead and give G-B due rights they have been demanding since forever.

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## Awi

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The Simla Agreement remains in force and is regarded as valid by both sides, and hence applicable.
> 
> (Thank you, but my wisdom here is regarded rather poorly.  )



We (Pak & India) are throwing dirt at each other for the things that are clearly mentioned in the Agreement that both sides would refrain from, so how is it valid?


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## VCheng

Awi said:


> We (Pak & India) are throwing dirt at each other for the things that are clearly mentioned in the Agreement that both sides would refrain from, so how is it valid?



Legally, it remains in full force, Sir.


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## Kabira

axisofevil said:


> Nothing to do with Kashmiri's.....the Indian gov't and the majority of Indian ppl including Kashmiri's want article 370 to be abolished. Now with Pakistan doing this to pacify Chinese concerned about India claims and CPEC, this will allow India to finally push thru the abolition of Article 370 once and for all.
> 
> Pakistan's action will ultimately nullify any past pacts or agreements....LOL
> 
> Even if India doesn't want to go that route, it can always bring up the issue in the UN.. where China haters will fully support us haha



Only reason India isn't removing article 370 is because it will make Wani murder episode look like child's play, even Indian puppets in IoK are against it. While GB people have been demanding provincial status since 1948. UN support or lack of it will not resolve IoK issue anyway. 

99% of hindus support to abolish article 370 isn't that surprising considering they also support outright genocide of native Kashmiri muslims which will also go well in UN.

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## axisofevil

save_ghenda said:


> Only reason India isn't removing article 370 is because it will make Wani murder episode look like child's play, even Indian puppets in IoK are against it. While GB people have been demanding provincial status since 1948. UN support or lack of it will not resolve IoK issue anyway.
> 
> 99% of hindus support to abolish article 370 isn't that surprising considering they also support outright genocide of native Kashmiri muslims which will also go well in UN.




Yea right....GB wants to leave asap. Stop fooling yourself. Wani's death is nothing....you must also remember we keep our security forces on a leash. God forbid we let them take out their anger on terrorists and their supporters....HAHA....it won't be no child play, trust me.


All this BS about 99% of Hindus and genocide is full of shit...

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## Awi

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> (Thank you, but my wisdom here is regarded rather poorly.  )



Well, I for one believe that you are wiser than even, you think you are. 



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Legally, it remains in full force, Sir.



You mean, it will remain in full force no matter what? Maybe Pakistan want's to test the limits of this fantasy (Simla Agreement)? Because to me, India needs it more than Pakistan.


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## VCheng

Awi said:


> Well, I for one believe that you are wiser than even, you think you are.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean, it will remain in full force no matter what? Maybe Pakistan want's to test the limits of this fantasy (Simla Agreement)? Because to me, India needs it more than Pakistan.



Thank you for the kind words.

The Simla Agreement remains in full force until and unless formally abrogated by either side.

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## Kabira

axisofevil said:


> Yea right....GB wants to leave asap. Stop fooling yourself. Wani's death is nothing....you must also remember we keep our security forces on a leash. God forbid we let them take out their anger on terrorists and their supporters....HAHA....it won't be no child play, trust me.



I ask again does it matter if even 100% of blood sucking hindus demand removal of article 370 and genocide of Kashmiri muslims? No they don't matter at all.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

axisofevil said:


> How far you wanna go back in history to see true historical facts of this region? If you wanna bring up Dogra, then we can bring up a lot more backed by evidence.


Please do.


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## Kabira

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Thank you for the kind words.
> 
> The Simla Agreement remains in full force until and unless formally abrogated by either side.



More details should be out by next week but from what I understand.

1. G-B will have seats in national assembly, senate etc like any other province.
2. Share in NFC award like any other province.

Apart from these two points status will remain same. Not sure of laws about foreign investment in G-B. Pakistan will likely make some changes to bring investment in GB and also not change demographics in process.

This doesn't really give India justification to remove article 370 and genocide of Kashmiri muslims.

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## django

Radio Mirchi said:


> 1. I disagree that GB people want to be part of Pakistan. Turtok village and surrounding area is also part of GB region who would like to be with India.


Have you ever been to GB hhhmm NO you have not, if you had you would know that they are amongst the most patriotic Pakistanis folk you will find.
@WAJsal

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## WAJsal

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The most important aspect are the _legal _issues, not political and not academic. Changing the status of a disputed territory is bound to be complicated.


Inevitable, any complications will be tackled i hope. The news was surfacing when CPEC was given a go ahead, i think FATA and GB reforms are also part of a grand plan to end sense of deprivation of sorts-my opinion.


Levina said:


> Now article 370 can be abolished in our Kashmir too.


Would you bet on it? can think of some excuses for our Indian members. Very hilarious though. It seems that most of the Indian posters have no idea about the local politics and local demands, and even what Pakistani political and military leadership has planned out for the future. Take a hint from FATA reforms, GB reforms, NAP... This will not affect Kashmir cause in anyway, mark my words. Actually you might see a butt hurt statement from PM Modi, that's the only reaction it will cause(will be eagerly waiting for that)


saiyan0321 said:


> @Areesh you are wasting your time with trolls from across the border. When a troll compares a fully armed terror outfit which was well equipped and well trained and knew how to use the terrain and held large swathes of land with innocent unarmed stone Pelters then you can guess the common sense levels and intellect of the said poster. Best not to waste time with them. Fact is that these trolls enjoyed deaths and attacks in Pakistan and they long for those days when everyday attacks happened everywhere. They were convinced that this was our end yet we survived and not only survived but pushed the terrorists back and handed them a severe defeat that saw a massive reduction in attacks all over Pakistan. We also dealt a finishing blow to the baluch terror outfits which burns them the most. They can't stand this so they come up with rubbish like " bombing their own civilians". Remember they are a brainwashed lot and their brains are constantly bombarded with propaganda by their media. Best to ignore them and let the trolls wallow in their own self hate and pity.
> 
> 
> Anyhow this was long over due. The region of gilgit baltistan fought against the dogra raj and secured their freedom and wilfully became part of Pakistan only to see them be estranged in a constitutional limbo. At least AJK has their own Parliament and prime minister. Gilgit baltistan had nothing until 2010 when they finally got provincial govt but again they severely lacked national representation and they deserve national representation. They are loyal Pakistan who have fought and shed blood for Pakistan. Its time we bring them in the fold. We need to start correcting mistakes and the mistake of not giving gilgit baltistan equal representative opportunity in Pakistan needs to be corrected.
> 
> @shimshali @WAJsal
> 
> Its been long enough.


well said good friend Saiyan.


django said:


> Have you ever been to GB hhhmm NO you have not, if you had you would know that they are amongst the most patriotic Pakistanis folk you will find.
> @WAJsal


Wasting your valuable time.



save_ghenda said:


> This doesn't really give India justification to remove article 370 and genocide of Kashmiri muslims.


You are talking logically, don't expect the same replies. Emotions are clouding judgments i guess. I too can't seem to link these two things together. Well they have the right to an opinion...

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## VCheng

WAJsal said:


> Inevitable, any complications will be tackled i hope. The news was surfacing when CPEC was given a go ahead, i think FATA and GB reforms are also part of a grand plan to end sense of deprivation of sorts-my opinion.



The legal aspects must be examined very carefully if Pakistan is not to further jeopardize its claims.



save_ghenda said:


> More details should be out by next week



I would like to know more details before opining further.


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## Areesh

This beautiful town is going to be officially part of our country. 







Gilgit Baltistan Zindabad
Pakistan Paindabad

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## The Sandman

Excellent news for the people of GB and rest of Pakistan.

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## Imad.Khan

Excellent news, first FATA to merge with KPK and now GB given official provincial status. its about time that all Pakistanis have the same rights where ever they may reside.

Next Step : Give voting rights to overseas Pakistanis.

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## Levina

WAJsal said:


> seems that most of the Indian posters have no idea about the local politics and local demands, and even what Pakistani political and military leadership has planned out for the future. Take a hint from FATA reforms, GB reforms, NAP...



Going by what is happening on twitter, your ppl don't seem to be happy about it. 
On social media where ppl don't fear getting muted,they give their very honest opinion.

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## Sam.

Levina said:


> Going by what is happening on twitter, your ppl don't seem to be happy about it.
> On social media where ppl don't fear getting muted,they give their very honest opinion.


Best thing can happen this year after UP election.


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## WAJsal

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The legal aspects must be examined very carefully if Pakistan is not to further jeopardize its claims.


I think if such a big step is being taken we must have studied all the angles. I hope you too are in favor of this decision.


Levina said:


> Going by what is happening on twitter, your ppl don't seem to be happy about it.
> On social media where ppl don't fear getting muted,they give their very honest opinion.


Doesn't matter. They don't form the majority. Take a look at what Pakistanis think of this on PDF. 
There have been protests in GB for this demand. This demand is being met because of CPEC, say if CPEC wasn't passing through GB i don't think political leadership would give a crap about these reforms.

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## Arsalan

It is a good development. Bringing G-B into the main stream politics will bring good for the people of the area.

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## AnnoyingOrange

save_ghenda said:


> ISLAMABAD – The government has decided to convert Gilgit-Baltistan (GB) into a fifth province of Pakistan.
> 
> *According to Geo news, Inter-Provincial Coordination Minister Riaz Hussain Pirzadar has said that a committee headed by Special Assistant to Prime Minister Sartaj Aziz had proposed giving the status of a province to GB. The government has approved the suggestion.*
> 
> Pirzada added that a bill to amend the Constitution of Pakistan in this regard will be presented in the National Assembly following the suggestion.
> 
> He added that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif will also utilise his special powers to grant GB the status of a province.
> https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/headline/govt-set-to-convert-gilgit-baltistan-into-fifth-province/


And the Azadi ki nautanki goes out of window... good job.. Cat is out of the bag.. finally. Pakistan wants Kashmir for itself.. all this azadi talk is just hogwash.

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## Zibago

Levina said:


> Going by what is happening on twitter, your ppl don't seem to be happy about it.
> On social media where ppl don't fear getting muted,they give their very honest opinion.


lets hope they are not Ajad Kashmiris who says fir sey 

It was an old demand of GB,istanis it will put Ajk and GB against each other but i think GB,istanis shouldnt be held hostage over Kashmir issue

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## WAJsal

Zibago said:


> lets hope they are not Ajad Kashmiris who says fir sey
> 
> It was an old demand of GB,istanis it will put Ajk and GB against each other but i think GB,istanis shouldnt be held hostage over Kashmir issue


Residents of AJK aren't concerned, it's the political elite that is scared. One can guess why.

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## Kambojaric

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The legal aspects must be examined very carefully if Pakistan is not to further jeopardize its claims.



Our "legal" claim as per the UN resolution rests on an inherent bias towards India with regards to troop movements. Most Pakistanis will demand a referendum to decide the future status of Kashmir (which is a completely legitimate demand), but the UN resolution states that such a referendum can only be held in the context of Pakistan removing all of its armed forces from AJK and GB, and Indian troops moving in to replace them (which is never going to happen voluntarily). Generations of Pakistani PM's and Presidents have deluded Pakistanis into thinking that the holding of the referendum is a simple issue which India is avoiding, but every time Pakistan brings it up on an international forum, India has responded by demanding Pakistan first remove its troops, a diplomatic "checkmate" if you will. The result is the people of these regions existing in limbo, not enjoying their full rights as Pakistani citizens despite having sacrificed so much.

By integrating GB and AJK as integral parts of Pakistan, we will give up our claim on Kashmir as per the UN resolutions. However the right of self determination is enshrined in the UN charter, and can always be used by minorities within countries to break apart. It was used extensively during the Balkan wars by the likes of Croatia and Slovenia. Personally I am in favor of this as CPEC has the potential to turn our nation's fortunes around. GB however is the lifeline of this project, and the Chinese wont be willing to go "all in" unless their investments are protected from territorial changes.

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## Zibago

WAJsal said:


> Residents of AJK aren't concerned, it's the political elite that is scared. One can guess why.


There are many groups in AJK who use this to resort to unwanted political activities


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## SirHatesALot

Excellent move by Pakistan i see Kashmir issue being solved very soon.


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## saiyan0321

WAJsal said:


> Residents of AJK aren't concerned, it's the political elite that is scared. One can guess why.



Normally the masses rarely ever are. They simply want to live a normal content and happy life and provide for their families. Its the political groups and politicians and the elite who profit from this that speak rubbish. As for social media. I would raise

A. There are many fake accounts like those baluch accounts and quite frankly between you and me, online people always cry. They will burn a homosexual yet have rainbow DP when Ireland legalizes gays and say progression. Moral of the story. Social media is not a scale to learn the thinking of people. And I say all platforms.

B. I have mostly seen Indians resisting this and many are shouting as usual for War and invasions. Their media. Fact is that they continuously cried oh GB is a colony and does not have rights and now when we are giving it to them, they say why. If they can cry about FATA being merged ( yes Indians on social media) then they can say about this as well. Moral of the story. Nobody gives a shit about them.


As for AJK. As @Zibago said. It's basically the Crux of the matter.

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## VCheng

Kambojaric said:


> By integrating GB and AJK as integral parts of Pakistan, we will give up our claim on Kashmir as per the UN resolutions.



Is Pakistan ready to accept such a possibility?



WAJsal said:


> I think if such a big step is being taken we must have studied all the angles. I hope you too are in favor of this decision.



Please see above.


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## WAJsal

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Is Pakistan ready to accept such a possibility?


I think the quoted part is an opinion rather than a reality. Or the poster might be a time traveler who knows the future. All angles must have been studied by a number of people. It is not a risk at all.


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## VCheng

WAJsal said:


> I think the quoted part is an opinion rather than a reality. Or the poster might be a time traveler who knows the future. All angles must have been studied by a number of people. It is not a risk at all.



Why do you think this possibility is "not a risk at al"?


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## WAJsal

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Why do you think this possibility is "not a risk at al"?


It is my opinion, i would say i can't seem to make a connection of the two things.


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## VCheng

WAJsal said:


> It is my opinion, i would say i can't seem to make a connection of the two things.



Let's wait until the details of what the government is planning are made known.


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## Kambojaric

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Is Pakistan ready to accept such a possibility?
> 
> 
> 
> Please see above.



There will be a short term backlash no doubt, but the ground realities in IOK will remain the same. The grievances held there are genuine, and their struggle will continue. The people of GB and AJK and their individual rights however should not be held hostage to the Indian occupation of IOK. I believe in the long run the people of Pakistan will see this as a positive move if not in the short run.

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## WAJsal

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Let's wait until the details of what the government is planning are made known.


Won't be given a provincial status, won't be an official province... Will be treated like a province, given somewhat the same powers with seats in NA and Senate.


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## VCheng

WAJsal said:


> Won't be given a provincial status, won't be an official province... Will be treated like a province, given somewhat the same powers with seats in NA and Senate.



Won't be an _official _province. Says it all. The rest is all veneer. 



Kambojaric said:


> There will be a short term backlash no doubt, but the ground realities in IOK will remain the same. The grievances held there are genuine, and their struggle will continue. The people of GB and AJK and their individual rights however should not be held hostage to the Indian occupation of IOK. I believe in the long run the people of Pakistan will see this as a positive move if not in the short run.



The people of Pakistan are not really important from the point of view of those who have set the agenda for decades in Pakistan, including the fallacy of the UN Resolutions and what they really entail, and of the validity of the Simla Agreement. Can they really fathom the consequences of this momentous change if it were allowed to happen?


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## django

SirHatesALot said:


> Excellent move by Pakistan i see Kashmir issue being solved very soon.


Though not in your favour,,,,,,by popular demand!

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## Paragkhadse259

It's good that they are finally shutting door to this lie & saying what they had in mind from start. They ignored the mountainous region since they took control of it & did nothing for it But now that there are legal issues arising in CPEC , they quickly want to prove that it's not a disputed area. If Indian Kashmir is a disputed area then so is Azad Kashmir but hey, Whatever works....

PS : Once GB is given state of Province by Pakistan government India gets a moral right to include J&K as it state in Indian territory.


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## Kabira

Levina said:


> Going by what is happening on twitter, your ppl don't seem to be happy about it.
> On social media where ppl don't fear getting muted,they give their very honest opinion.



?? GB people on twitter are happy.


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## Areesh

I hope we don't delay it any further. Time to call Indian bluff and play with legalities just like them.

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## Paragkhadse259

Areesh said:


> I hope we don't delay it any further. Time to call Indian bluff and play with legalities just like them.


Raja of kashmir has officially signed the paper of accession to india. So India legally has right on Kashmir.

As far as muslim brotherhood card is concerned india houses approximately same number of Muslim population that pakistan has. So we have equal claim on Kashmir territory as per religious logic of pakistan. 

Gifting China a huge territory of 1,942 square kilometres (750 sq mi) to china in the past & 
Few months before there were talks by Pakistani diplomats about leasing GB to China for 50 years shows the real psyche of Pakistani siyasat about whole Kashmir and GB issue.

China is having legal issues with CPEC due to disputed tag on GB & Pakistan is doing things to please them ( Not for GBistani's pleasure).


Which country was playing Bluff till now is getting exposed if you see...

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## Areesh

Paragkhadse259 said:


> Raja of kashmir has officially signed the paper of accession to india.



Never accepted that bogus accession. Kashmir is still a disputed territory despite those papers. Shows the worth of those papers.

Rest of what you said is meaningless rant which doesn't need any answers.

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## Paragkhadse259

Areesh said:


> Never accepted that bogus accession. Kashmir is still a disputed territory despite those papers. Shows the worth of those papers.
> 
> Rest of what you said is meaningless rant which doesn't need any answers.


It doesn't matter what you or i believe. UN and international federation accepts Paper of Accession by Raja Harisingh. 

It gives solid support to have india troops in territory.

As per UN resolution Pakistan has to demilitarise the territory and India to conduct plebiscite. So it agrees with accession to some extent. 

Pakistani troops presence in Kashmir or GB is pure occupation. 

By the way, China is new player in the game and it's good to pakistan govt doing what China needs for CPEC as this will expose Pakistan's decade old intentions behind fake support for Kashmiri seperatist. 

Pakistan will now have to face opposition from globe as well as separatist who were fighting for Azaadi. 

Its a win win for India.

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## saurav jha

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> So which side is more likely to propose such a solution first?


Indira gandhi proposed it as solution to kashmir issue during simla agreement negotiations. And most Indians will accept it.


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## VCheng

saurav jha said:


> Indira gandhi proposed it as solution to kashmir issue during simla agreement negotiations. And most Indians will accept it.



Much has changed since then.


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## saurav jha

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Much has changed since then.


Yes. But it is only solution. No country will ever cede it's territory.both countries should keep what they have and make some arrangements for kashmiris so that they can move freely to other side of kashmir.

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## VCheng

saurav jha said:


> Yes. But it is only solution. No country will ever cede it's territory.both countries should keep what they have and make some arrangements for kashmiris so that they can move freely to other side of kashmir.



The only problem is that giving up its claim on Kashmir destroys the very foundations of Pakistan's national identity, carefully crafted and nurtured over decades, and therefore not possible. A similar problem exists on the other side, although not as comprehensive.


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## saurav jha

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The only problem is that giving up its claim on Kashmir destroys the very foundations of Pakistan's national identity, carefully crafted and nurtured over decades, and therefore not possible. A similar problem exists on the other side, although not as comprehensive.


Yes I agree to this but sadly there is no other solution for kashmir issue.


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## MultaniGuy

Good move by the Pakistani government. Its about time that Gilgit-Baltistan becomes a province of Pakistan.

Its overdue.


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## Areesh

Paragkhadse259 said:


> It doesn't matter what you or i believe. UN and international federation accepts Paper of Accession by Raja Harisingh.



No they don't accept that is why Kashmir is a disputed territory and your government has to whine in every few days about everyone from UN to Google getting your country map wrong.

Learn some reality about your atoot ang history and then come back and repeat the lies that you country teachers you in your country.

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## MultaniGuy

Areesh said:


> No they don't accept that is why Kashmir is a disputed territory and your government has to whine in every few days about everyone from UN to Google getting your country map wrong.
> 
> Learn some reality about your atoot ang history and then come back and repeat the lies that you country teachers you in your country.


There was supposed to be plebiscite to be held, but Nehru never did that. Nehru was a dishonest dog.

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## MultaniGuy

Areesh said:


> A true b@stard he was. Tried to grab as much land as possible after banging Mountbatten's wife. And not to forget that piece of sh!t Sardar Patel. Another true scumbag.


The Indian National Congress were all dishonest.

Thank you Jinnah for Pakistan. Sardar Patel, Nehru, and gandhi were all liars.

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## Imtiaz New York

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Giving the status of a province is NOT the same as declaring GB a province.


What's make you think that way.
Province is a province like the rest of provinces


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## MultaniGuy

Gilgit baltistan should be made a province of Pakistan

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## Indika

thats a slap on the face of separatists in kashmir. Morons now have now been left high & dry.

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## ranadd

Thank you Pakistan!!!(and China). Finally common sense kicks in. Now India can reciprocate and we can all go back to living peacefully.

In a decade or so, this shit show of "kashmir independence" will end. Pakistan has a Kashmir, India has a Kashmir. Next step declare the LOC as IB.

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## Kabira

Indika said:


> thats a slap on the face of separatists in kashmir. Morons now have now been left high & dry.



Some Kashmiris in IoK will be against this but they should stop blaming Pakistan for everything and fight for their freedom. Allah help those who help themselves. See people of Gilgit and AJK liberated themselves. Obviously now this isn't possible but after Wani murder protests showed IoK was about to explode with in. 

Some Kashmiris who are Indian puppets are confused souls, they don't want to fight but also want to maintain status quo/article 370. Problem is Pakistan can't afford to deny rights to GB people anymore.

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## MultaniGuy

save_ghenda said:


> Some Kashmiris in IoK will be against this but they should stop blaming Pakistan for everything and fight for their freedom. Allah help those who help themselves. See people of Gilgit and AJK liberated themselves. Obviously now this isn't possible but after Wani murder protests showed IoK was about to explode with in.
> 
> Some Kashmiris who are Indian puppets are confused souls, they don't want to fight but also want to maintain status quo/article 370. Problem is Pakistan can't afford to deny rights to GB people anymore.


Agreed with you save_ghenda

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## Verve

Indians can't tolerate a prosperous Pakistan, irrespective of controlling IoK. 

Even if India removes 370, Kashmiri freedom movement will carry on. Pakistan will still support them.

What the Indians are and will continue to do is to paint this as 'Pakistan dumped Kashmir' but Kashmiris will not buy that.

Kashmiri movement will be fueled further by formal integration of GB, as per the request of GB residents.

And Chinese veto in UN means that India can't really do anything there.

Tough times ahead for Hindu elite who were promoting Akhand Bharat.

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## AnnoyingOrange

Verve said:


> Indians can't tolerate a prosperous Pakistan, irrespective of controlling IoK.
> 
> Even if India removes 370, Kashmiri freedom movement will carry on. Pakistan will still support them.
> 
> What the Indians are and will continue to do is to paint this as 'Pakistan dumped Kashmir' but Kashmiris will not buy that.
> 
> Kashmiri movement will be fueled further by formal integration of GB, as per the request of GB residents.
> 
> And Chinese veto in UN means that India can't really do anything there.
> 
> Tough times ahead for Hindu elite who were promoting Akhand Bharat.




Keep on doing what you guys are doing..you are killing your so called Kashmir Azadi movement yourself.. this move will show the world that Pakistan give a rats *** to Kashmir Azadi.. they just want to capture and own Kashmir.

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## Verve

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Keep on doing what you guys are doing..you are killing your so called Kashmir Azadi movement yourself.. this move will show the world that Pakistan give a rats *** to Kashmir Azadi.. they just want to capture and own Kashmir.



There you go - just as I said you guys would and you are.

Kashmiris are not stupid that they would buy Hindu's 'Pakistan killed Kashmir movement' BS! Keep at this propaganda, it'll fail.

We will integrate IoK in Pakistan as well when time comes. It's not like we said No on that front. The moral support will always be there.

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## Max

i completely support this decision.. GB people are desperate for this. We should intergrate them in such way that it become province of Pakistan and also not violate rights of Kashmiris.. We should take Kashmiri leadership in confidence about this decision..

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## AnnoyingOrange

Verve said:


> There you go - just as I said you guys would and you are.
> 
> Kashmiris are not stupid that they would buy Hindu's 'Pakistan killed Kashmir movement' BS! Keep at this propaganda, it'll fail.
> 
> We will integrate IoK in Pakistan as well when time comes. It's not like we said No on that front. The moral support will always be there.


Billi ke khwab main chichde....

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## Paragkhadse259

Verve said:


> Indians can't tolerate a prosperous Pakistan, irrespective of controlling IoK.
> 
> Even if India removes 370, Kashmiri freedom movement will carry on. Pakistan will still support them.
> 
> What the Indians are and will continue to do is to paint this as 'Pakistan dumped Kashmir' but Kashmiris will not buy that.
> 
> Kashmiri movement will be fueled further by formal integration of GB, as per the request of GB residents.
> 
> And Chinese veto in UN means that India can't really do anything there.
> 
> Tough times ahead for Hindu elite who were promoting Akhand Bharat.


If wishes were horses [emoji237].......


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## tarrar

Good.


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## Kabira

*Separatists say Pakistan proposal to declare Gilgit-Baltistan as province unacceptable*

SRINAGAR: In a rare case, separatist leaders in Kashmir have hit out at Pakistan and described any attempt by the country to declare Gilgit-Baltistan (GB) as its 5th province as “unacceptable” and asserted that it is part of Jammu and Kashmir.

*“Any proposal to declare Giglit Baltistan as fifth state of Pakistan is unacceptable,” the three senior Kashmiri separatist leaders Syed Ali Geelani, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Mohammad Yasin Malik said in a joint statement issued here today.*

Kashmir, Ladakh, Jammu, Pakistan administered Kashmir (Pak) and Giglit Baltistan is a single entity and part of Jammu and Kashmir, they said.

Declaring Pakistan as a prime party to the Kashmir issue, the three leaders said people in J&K have always regarded and accepted the role of Pakistan as a party to the issue, however, any step which may hamper the disputed status of Kashmir is unacceptable.

Any deviation in Pakistan’s stance about Kashmir and its geographical entity is improper and will prove detrimental for Kashmir cause, they said.

The leaders expressed their serious concern over proposal by Pakistan to declare Giglit Baltistan as fifth province of the country. “It will have damaging impact over the disputed status of state.”

“Unless and until people of J&K are provided an opportunity to decide the future course of state through referendum, no division, alteration and changes are acceptable,” they said.

Rejecting any idea of merging of its part or division of state, the leaders said both India and Pakistan have no authority or right to alter the geographical status of state.

They advised Pakistan to show wisdom and desist from such steps, which may hamper the political and geographical position of Jammu and Kashmir.

“We hope Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif will fulfil commitment regarding the geographical entity of J&K and desist from the adventure of annexing Giglit Baltistan as fifth state of Pakistan,” the leader said.

Pakistan’s minister for inter-provincial coordination Riaz Hussain Pirzada had told Pakistan TV news channel (Geo TV) that that a committee headed by Advisor of Foreign Affairs to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, Sartaj Aziz has proposed giving the status of a province to Gilgit-Baltistan.

Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Punjab and Sindh are four provinces of Pakistan.

The chief commander of dominant militant group Hizbul Mujahideen, Syed Salah-ud-Din has also opposed Pakistan move to declare Gilgit Baltistan as a province.

“Pakistan should not declare Gilgit-Baltistan as fifth province of the country as it would impact the Kashmir dispute at the United Nations and give India a legal and moral pretext to lay claim on Kashmir,” he said.

The Hizb chief said Instead of granting Gilgat Baltistan a province status, the problems of its people should be addressed on priority basis and corruption free administration provided to the people of the region.

New Delhi has also strongly reacted to the Pakistan move to declare Gilgit Baltistan as country’s 5th province.

External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Gopal Baglay had yesterday said any such step would not be able to hide the illegality of Pakistan's occupation of parts of Jammu and Kashmir which it must vacate, forthwith.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...ltistan-as-province-unacceptable-1582529.html


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## Kyoto

save_ghenda said:


> *Separatists say Pakistan proposal to declare Gilgit-Baltistan as province unacceptable*
> 
> SRINAGAR: In a rare case, separatist leaders in Kashmir have hit out at Pakistan and described any attempt by the country to declare Gilgit-Baltistan (GB) as its 5th province as “unacceptable” and asserted that it is part of Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> *“Any proposal to declare Giglit Baltistan as fifth state of Pakistan is unacceptable,” the three senior Kashmiri separatist leaders Syed Ali Geelani, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Mohammad Yasin Malik said in a joint statement issued here today.*
> 
> Kashmir, Ladakh, Jammu, Pakistan administered Kashmir (Pak) and Giglit Baltistan is a single entity and part of Jammu and Kashmir, they said.
> 
> Declaring Pakistan as a prime party to the Kashmir issue, the three leaders said people in J&K have always regarded and accepted the role of Pakistan as a party to the issue, however, any step which may hamper the disputed status of Kashmir is unacceptable.
> 
> Any deviation in Pakistan’s stance about Kashmir and its geographical entity is improper and will prove detrimental for Kashmir cause, they said.
> 
> The leaders expressed their serious concern over proposal by Pakistan to declare Giglit Baltistan as fifth province of the country. “It will have damaging impact over the disputed status of state.”
> 
> “Unless and until people of J&K are provided an opportunity to decide the future course of state through referendum, no division, alteration and changes are acceptable,” they said.
> 
> Rejecting any idea of merging of its part or division of state, the leaders said both India and Pakistan have no authority or right to alter the geographical status of state.
> 
> They advised Pakistan to show wisdom and desist from such steps, which may hamper the political and geographical position of Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> “We hope Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif will fulfil commitment regarding the geographical entity of J&K and desist from the adventure of annexing Giglit Baltistan as fifth state of Pakistan,” the leader said.
> 
> Pakistan’s minister for inter-provincial coordination Riaz Hussain Pirzada had told Pakistan TV news channel (Geo TV) that that a committee headed by Advisor of Foreign Affairs to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, Sartaj Aziz has proposed giving the status of a province to Gilgit-Baltistan.
> 
> Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Punjab and Sindh are four provinces of Pakistan.
> 
> The chief commander of dominant militant group Hizbul Mujahideen, Syed Salah-ud-Din has also opposed Pakistan move to declare Gilgit Baltistan as a province.
> 
> “Pakistan should not declare Gilgit-Baltistan as fifth province of the country as it would impact the Kashmir dispute at the United Nations and give India a legal and moral pretext to lay claim on Kashmir,” he said.
> 
> The Hizb chief said Instead of granting Gilgat Baltistan a province status, the problems of its people should be addressed on priority basis and corruption free administration provided to the people of the region.
> 
> New Delhi has also strongly reacted to the Pakistan move to declare Gilgit Baltistan as country’s 5th province.
> 
> External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Gopal Baglay had yesterday said any such step would not be able to hide the illegality of Pakistan's occupation of parts of Jammu and Kashmir which it must vacate, forthwith.
> http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...ltistan-as-province-unacceptable-1582529.html


So they are separatists not 'terrorists' now..
Sad that GB and AJK overwhelmingly want to formally join Pakistan but cant because of India's position.

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## aryadravida_exmuslim

Very complicated move indeed.
Except for one party: China, who made this decision.

Who knows, maybe this will bring peace, by deciding an international border.
Removing Article 370 will bring more development in Kashmir. It'll be weird looking at the new map, but if it means peace and progress...

I just hope that our dear neighbour doesn't compromise our (all of us) lovely historical land to the Chinese. It's very valuable. I don't think they fully understand.

Don't want another Tibet in fifty years.

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## xairhossi

I think the government should allow provincial flags. This old flag of Balawaristan/Baltistan looks pretty cool.


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## ABCharlie

xairhossi said:


> I think the government should allow provincial flags. This old flag of Balawaristan/Baltistan looks pretty cool.



That looks like the pharoah of the goats.

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## Paragkhadse259

Kyoto said:


> So they are separatists not 'terrorists' now..
> Sad that GB and AJK overwhelmingly want to formally join Pakistan but cant because of India's position.


Geelanis , Maliks & company are always referred as separatists in india. Terrorists or people advocating terror are sent to jahannum at the first sight by indian forces they don't have luxury to hold public meeting or press conferences in India like they do have in our neighboring countries.

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## SMC

Paragkhadse259 said:


> Geelanis , Maliks & company are always referred as separatists in india. Terrorists or people advocating terror are sent to jahannum at the first sight by indian forces they don't have luxury to hold public meeting or press conferences in India like they do have in our neighboring countries.



Instead, they get elected prime minister and chief ministers in bharat.

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## Paragkhadse259

SMC said:


> Instead, they get elected prime minister and chief ministers in bharat.


What's your problem? 

No Indian PM or CM ever held rally for begging money to support violence against civilians or other nations territory.

India/Bharat is not a place run by hate mongering army and puppet govt who can't control retards loving violence against civilians and terrorism advocates. 

Learn meaning of Democracy my friend. Our constitution gives no special right to PM or CM.


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## SMC

Paragkhadse259 said:


> What's your problem?
> 
> No Indian PM or CM ever held rally for begging money to support violence against civilians or other nations territory.
> 
> India/Bharat is not a place run by hate mongering army and puppet govt who can't control retards loving violence against civilians and terrorism advocates.
> 
> Learn meaning of Democracy my friend. Our constitution gives no special right to PM or CM.



You said "they don't have luxury to hold public meeting or press conferences in India". But they do become your PM or CM in your country.

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## danger007

Max said:


> i completely support this decision.. GB people are desperate for this. We should intergrate them in such way that it become province of Pakistan and also not violate rights of Kashmiris.. We should take Kashmiri leadership in confidence about this decision..




But it means giving up your hope on kashmir... unlikely to get any support from intl. community..


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## coffee_cup

Paragkhadse259 said:


> What's your problem?
> 
> No Indian PM or CM ever held rally for begging money *to support violence against civilians *or other nations territory.
> 
> *India/Bharat is not a place run by hate mongering* army and puppet govt who can't control retards loving *violence against civilians and terrorism advocates.*
> .



 

Do you live in this real world my friend? Have you ever read the biography of the CM of your largest province before writing this bull cr@p?

Or your PM?

Oh man you guys are really too much!

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## Max

danger007 said:


> But it means giving up your hope on kashmir... unlikely to get any support from intl. community..



you can dream of anything.. Time will tell.


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## Winchester

ABCharlie said:


> That looks like the pharoah of the goats.



Its Markhor.....your national animal !

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## danger007

Max said:


> you can dream of anything.. Time will tell.




Hmmmm but but as per pak members, Pakistan is or kashmir cause.. you are the who started wars.. dreaming for what..


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## shah1398

*Gilgit-Baltistan as separate province: Last hurdle cleared*
on: March 20, 2017





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GILGIT: *In what appears to be a push to get over the final hurdle, Gilgit-Baltistan (G-B) Chief Minister Hafeezur Rehman claimed on Sunday that leadership of Azad Jammu and Kashmir had consented to the idea of granting constitutional status to G-B.*

Rehman’s comments came days after Indian media created hype quoting certain Kashmiri leaders who are opposed to changing G-B’s constitutional status.

READ MORE: AJK Police saves city from disaster
“ Azad Kashmir Prime Minister Farooq Haider and I will be meeting Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif soon,” said Rehman in an indirect reference to the understanding reached between the two regions over G-B’s new constitutional status.

The G-B chief minister said this while addressing a public rally organised to mark the 14th death anniversary of Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz’s (PML-N) founding member Saifur Rehman, the late brother of the chief minister.

READ MORE: India declares Gilgit-Baltistan as integral part of India
Saif was assassinated in 2003 by a relative for voicing his stance on sectarian peace in the region.

“We have had meetings recently and they [AJK] have no objections over G-B’s constitutional status,” Rehman told the well-attended rally.

The chief minister further disclosed that a file containing recommendations from Sartaj Aziz’s committee for the change of G-B’s status had also been presented to Nawaz, who is expected to announce the change in the constitutional status soon.

READ MORE: Kashmir issue: Where does China stand
Rehman, however, did not elaborate on what changes had been proposed in the report.

“G-B will have what its people want,” the chief minister assured.

https://timesofislamabad.com/gilgit-baltistan-as-separate-province-last-hurdle-cleared/2017/03/20/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/135995...s-ajk-consented-granting-g-b-province-status/

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## shah1398

@WAJsal , @Zibago


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## saiyan0321

Good. This was the only hurdle and if cleared now nothing should stand in the way of giving GB representation. Its time to hear their opinions echo in the Senate and the national assembly. This would be a massive massive step forward.


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## ABCharlie

Winchester said:


> Its Markhor.....your national animal !



I know. Still looks like pharoah of the goats.


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## StraightShooter

Early day motion 1107

ANNEXATION OF GILGIT-BALTISTAN BY PAKISTAN AS ITS FIFTH FRONTIER
Session: 2016-17
Date tabled: 23.03.2017
Primary sponsor: Blackman, Bob
Sponsors:
That this House condemns the arbitrary announcement by Pakistan declaring Gilgit-Baltistan as its Fifth Frontier, implying its attempt to annex the already disputed area; notes that Gilgit-Baltistan is a legal and constitutional part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India, which is illegally occupied by Pakistan since 1947, and where people are denied their fundamental rights including the right of freedom of expression; further notes the attempts to change the demography of the region in violation of State Subject Ordinance and forcibly and illegally to build the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, which further aggravates and interferes with the disputed territory.

Source

parliament uk/edm/2016-17/1107

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## Asimzranger

StraightShooter said:


> Early day motion 1107
> 
> ANNEXATION OF GILGIT-BALTISTAN BY PAKISTAN AS ITS FIFTH FRONTIER
> Session: 2016-17
> Date tabled: 23.03.2017
> Primary sponsor: Blackman, Bob
> Sponsors:
> That this House condemns the arbitrary announcement by Pakistan declaring Gilgit-Baltistan as its Fifth Frontier, implying its attempt to annex the already disputed area; notes that Gilgit-Baltistan is a legal and constitutional part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India, which is illegally occupied by Pakistan since 1947, and where people are denied their fundamental rights including the right of freedom of expression; further notes the attempts to change the demography of the region in violation of State Subject Ordinance and forcibly and illegally to build the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, which further aggravates and interferes with the disputed territory.
> 
> Source
> 
> parliament uk/edm/2016-17/1107


lol this proves nothing you can frame this document in your parliament you wont get anything nor it means anything.


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## StraightShooter

Asimz said:


> lol this proves nothing you can frame this document in your parliament you wont get anything nor it means anything.



this proves the lack of support for pakistan's actions. india already has the instrument of accession and does not need any further legitimacy for its claim.

as of now india is incapable to take back kashmir from pakistan but it does not matter. india would keep claiming it and india would take back the pak held kashmir as and when india is capable of doing so. this may even take another 100 years.

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## The Eagle

StraightShooter said:


> this proves the lack of support for pakistan's actions. india already has the instrument of accession and does not need any further legitimacy for its claim.
> 
> as of now india is incapable to take back kashmir from pakistan but it does not matter. india would keep claiming it and india would take back the pak held kashmir as and when india is capable of doing so. this may even take another 100 years.



There is no hurry and this is what really happened to the Motion afnd I beg to differ for the claim of so-called lack of support but India's sponsored Motion wasn't lasting or didn't take longer to meet the fate. Even if it was moved, one must think about the fact that in real world, Countries enjoying good relation and I am not claiming the most closed and warm relations but Pakistan-UK are in good relations.


*India faces embarrassment in British Parliament over Gilgit-Baltistan sponsored motion*

London: India had to face huge disappointment and embarrassment in the British Parliament after one of its sponsored motion backed by only one member of the Parliament was moved in the House.

No other member of the house has signed the motion which condemns Pakistan move of making Gilgit-Baltistan as fifth province of Pakistan.

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## StraightShooter

The Eagle said:


> There is no hurry and this is what really happened to the Motion afnd I beg to differ for the claim of so-called lack of support but India's sponsored Motion wasn't lasting or didn't take longer to meet the fate. Even if it was moved, one must think about the fact that in real world, Countries enjoying good relation and I am not claiming the most closed and warm relations but Pakistan-UK are in good relations.
> 
> 
> India faces embarrassment in British Parliament over Gilgit-Baltistan sponsored motion
> 
> London: India had to face huge disappointment and embarrassment in the British Parliament after one of its sponsored motion backed by only one member of the Parliament was moved in the House.
> 
> No other member of the house has signed the motion which condemns Pakistan move of making Gilgit-Baltistan as fifth province of Pakistan.



Creation of Pakistan is the brain child of the British. why would they oppose Pakistan. That would be like parent going against the kid. India already has instrument of accession for its claim to be legitimate.


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## darksider

StraightShooter said:


> Creation of Pakistan is the brain child of the British. why would they oppose Pakistan. That would be like parent going against the kid. India already has instrument of accession for its claim to be legitimate.


I will thanks British also if that's true.because of them I can enjoy cow steaks cow meat burger cow meat Tikka and cow meat kabab freely now without worrying of hindu fanatics.
Thanks you British

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## AsianLion

*The fifth province: “To be or not to be.”*

GILGIT-BALTISTAN
With the recent order of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, given by a seven-judge bench, the focus is back on the constitutional status of Gilgit-Baltistan (GB). The moot question being: is Gilgit-Baltistan a province of Pakistan or a disputed territory? The purpose of this exposition is to mark the relevance of the court’s decision as far as the provincial status of Gilgit- Baltistan is concerned and whether it is possible to confer fundamental rights onto the people. On January 17 2019, the judgement of the apex court ordered the federal government to promulgate a new law within a fortnight to grant more rights to the people of Gilgit- Baltistan. Stressing on the need for governance to be within a constitutional framework, the bench contended that its jurisdiction and power _extends_ to Gilgit-Baltistan. Chief Justice Mian Saqib Nisar in his final case noted that the international status of Kashmir, of which Gilgit-Baltistan is a part remains “disputed”. In addition, the ruling stated that until the UN promised plebiscite records the Kashmiri aspiration, it is incumbent on the governments of both India and Pakistan to ensure that the people of the region enjoy maximum rights for areas within their respective control. During the hearing of the matter in Supreme Court, the Attorney General had stated for the government that it is not feasible to declare the region a separate province as it remains part of the broader Kashmir dispute between India and Pakistan. Conversely, Counsel Salman Ikram Raja said that Gilgit-Baltistan has no relationship with Kashmir.

Similar to most disputed regions the doctrine of progressive realisation of rights is operating here as well. Initially, before signing of the Karachi Agreement in 1949, the region was under the ‘AJK’ government. After the agreement, it came under FCR (Frontier Crimes Regulation), 1901 that was also governing the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). In 1974, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto brought in administrative and judicial reforms in the region. Until 2009, referred to as the Federally Administered Northern Areas (FANA) the region was renamed as Gilgit-Baltistan. G-B Empowerment and Self-Governance Order, executed by the government in 2009, brought the same. This order established a Gilgit Assembly with 24 directly elected members. A province like status introduced with a Chief Minister and Governor in office. However, it was the Gilgit Baltistan Council headed by the PM as Chairman, which exercised de facto powers over the region. With the 2018, Gilgit-Baltistan Executive Order things changed. The powers exercised by the Gilgit Baltistan Council, stood transferred to the Gilgit Baltistan Assembly. Thus acknowledging its representative status and delegating more power to it. Based on the order it is widely believed that the new package will bring greater autonomy to the region. It will allow the local administration to appoint judges, establish a public service commission and take up developmental projects in tourism and hydroelectricity. In addition, a constitutional committee of nine members led by Sartaj Aziz constituted in 2015 proposed a _de-facto _integration of GB to Pakistan, after completing a series of talks up until 2018. With the coming of the court order, the extension of governance package has been in limbo. What draws further attention is that how the government will reconcile its position under the 2018 order with the court verdict.

The Constitution of Pakistan requires a two-thirds majority for passing a constitutional amendment. In the mean time before such an amendment is possible, an ordinance is the way out. A constitutional amendment in the National Assembly of Pakistan would require the Imran Khan government to be bipartisan in its dealings.

However, what makes Gilgit-Baltistan have a status just short of it being the fifth province is the protracted Kashmir issue. The Pakistani claim on Kashmir would stand affected if it constitutionally usurps the region. The leadership in Azad Jammu Kashmir region and in the Kashmir Valley area have ever since vociferously opposed any demand of provincial status emanating from GB. The translation of Pakistan’s de-facto administrative control over the region to the status of a province at par with (Sindh, Punjab, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa or Baluchistan) would be a jolt for its traditional stand. Domestically also, the issue of governance in FATA will crop up as the Supreme Court extends its jurisdiction to G-B. The predominantly tribal region governed through the Frontier Crimes Regulation 1901, today has different narratives when it comes to its future position within Pakistan. The four major alternatives include firstly, integrating the FATA region into the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, secondly, to carve FATA into a separate province, thirdly to constitute a FATA Council modelled on the lines of the Gilgit-Baltistan Council and lastly, to maintain the status quo. Conclusively, while provincial autonomy may not be in store for FATA, the demand of the tribal leaders for more constitutional reforms stands strengthened after the current decision pertaining to Gilgit Baltistan.

The contentious Gilgit-Baltistan area has contrasting narratives about its territorial sovereignty. India maintains that with the signing of instrument of accession between Maharaja Hari Singh and the Indian government the territory including other parts of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, is under its control.

Pakistan contends that Gilgit Agency had unconditionally acceded to Pakistan after liberating their area from the Dogras on 1 November 1947. Furthermore, after the 1947-48 war between India and Pakistan the region came under Pakistani occupation. The Karachi Cease Fire Line, later the LoC (Line of Control) demarcates the territories of the two countries. Moreover, the UNSC resolution 47 mandates a three-step process for conducting a plebiscite in the region. In the said process, Pakistan would withdraw all its nationals from Kashmir province. Secondly, India would progressively reduce its forces to the minimum level required for law and order and finally India would appoint a plebiscite administrator nominated by the United Nations who would conduct a free and impartial plebiscite. This has not fructified until today. Consequently, looking at this disputed historical position and the political disagreements otherwise between the two nations, granting of provincial status in a one-sided manner seems a non-starter. Internationally as well, a unilateral step may invite global opprobrium.

Inversely, the geo-economic calculus suggests that China has pressed Pakistan to clarify the status of the region. After the introduction of CPEC, the demand for provincial status has become strong. The locals also maintain that issues related to human rights and land grabbing would be addressed only if GB gets constitutional status. In addition, the national economy of Pakistan is crumbling due to issues like unemployment, poverty, lack of investment and corruption. The CPEC with Gilgit as its starting point in the area forms a key part of the BRI (Belt and Road Initiative). The project has met with persistent objection from India on grounds of sovereignty and territorial integrity. A functional, vibrant and duly accepted economic project is of crucial interest for a landlocked western China, which is otherwise struggling to keep at bay dissent emanating from Tibet and Xinjiang. Opening to the sea at Gwadar helps China reduce costs, as it otherwise admits its cargo through the Malacca strait. In addition, the natural development of Western and South Western China would flow, provided the CPEC gathers momentum and works at full speed.. Consequently, the acceptance of CPEC internationally and particularly with India is in its natural interest as much as in Pakistan’s.

Therefore, for the Pakistani administration, this is nothing less than a policy quagmire. While through CPEC, Pakistan wishes to develop the economy of the region, simultaneous political action needs to be taken.

The politics of the region and the neighbouring area suggest in the interim that the fifth province cannot be a reality. The economic constraints on the contrary, force Pakistan to act judiciously and bring clarity over its sovereign hold on the region. Either ways serious consequences, await her. Relations with India only complicate the matter further. After the decision of the court, India rejected continued attempts from Pakistan, to bring material change in the status of the occupied territories. Any future bilateral conversation with India may be jeopardised following Pakistani assertiveness in the region. In case GB becomes a province, it would have implications on the Indian political scene as well. Aspirations for repealing articles 35A and 370 of the Constitution may gain momentum in India and the status of Kashmir under Indian administration may drastically change. Hence, the manner in which the Pakistani government implements the court order, in the coming days is an open question. What is certain is that the aspirations of the people of districts of Gilgit, Hunza-Nagar, Diamer, Skardu and Kharmang among others are far from the discourse. Their sense of alienation and disenfranchisement may only increase.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Congrats on the announcement


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