# IDEAS 2016 Preview: Blitzkrieg Solution MRAP to be unveiled on IDEAS 2016



## JamD

Blitzkrieg Defense Solutions MRAP

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## JamD



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## Dazzler

i this local stuff ? :O

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## Path-Finder

http://www.blitzkriegdefense.co.uk/#

interesting to see private sector doing well!

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## JamD

Dazzler said:


> i this local stuff ? :O


Yes. I know the designer closely.

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## Path-Finder

JamD said:


> Yes. I know the designer closely.


has it been to the proving grounds and tested or is it still in completion?

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## WaLeEdK2

@Zarvan you'll like this

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## JamD

Path-Finder said:


> has it been to the proving grounds and tested or is it still in completion?


This is just the first prototype which was hurried into production to be showcased at IDEAS. So to answer your question, no. This was born out of the army's dissatisfaction with the Dragoon I am told, which is very cramped and very expensive to produce (assemble).

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## muhammadali233

JamD said:


> This is just the first prototype which was hurried into production to be showcased at IDEAS. So to answer your question, no. This was born out of the army's dissatisfaction with the Dragoon I am told, which is very cramped and very expensive to produce (assemble).


Engine and chassis are local too?If impressive.


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## Zarvan

Is this Pakistani company product ?


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## JamD

muhammadali233 said:


> Engine and chassis are local too?If impressive.


No, those are imported and modified.

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## WaLeEdK2

what sort of weapon systems and protection (anything like APS?) does it hold @JamD


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## YeBeWarned

is this a MARP ?

Inshallah will be going to Ideas this year finally after a life time waiting  
I hope they allow me to carry my Camera

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## JamD

WaLeEdK2 said:


> what sort of weapon systems and protection (anything like APS?) does it hold @JamD


This is just the first prototype so the only electronics it has right now are the cameras and the turret optics. If the army likes it then things like these will be considered for future prototypes and production models.

EDIT: The main gun, I am told, is 30 mm.

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## HRK

don't you think its quite early to present it in IDEAS-2016 ....???

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## Muhammad Omar

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa That's made in Pakistan???????? How good is it??? looks awesome

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## Khafee

Congratulations, very good move.

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## !eon

Nice 
but
They should adopt local name. Blitzkrieg is giving false impression, and they are using wrong spelling.


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## Sulman Badshah

They are registered in Islamabad ... and they are also providing other services as well 

http://www.blitzkriegdefense.co.uk/?page_id=2234#

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## JamD

t


Sulman Badshah said:


> They are registered in Islamabad ... and they are also providing other services as well
> 
> http://www.blitzkriegdefense.co.uk/?page_id=2234#


Their website is horrendous. Not that it's much better but their facebook page has some pictures at least:
https://www.facebook.com/Blitzkrieg-Defence-Solution-1654747064774934/

Also, it used to be called Cavalier before.

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## ali_raza

seemd like inspiration fron dragoon

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## Tipu7

JamD said:


> This was born out of the army's dissatisfaction with the Dragoon I am told, which is very cramped and very expensive to produce (assemble).


Can you give bit more explanation about this part?
If Dragoon was cramped & expensive to produce then why it's TOT agreement was done in first place?
And we have seen Dragoon with Air port security only. No army, no police, no FC or ranger.


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## Sulman Badshah

Tipu7 said:


> And we have seen Dragoon with Air port security only. No army, no police, no FC or ranger.


i've seen dragoon somewhere with other force as well ..can't remember which one


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## Tipu7

Sulman Badshah said:


> i've seen dragoon somewhere with other force as well ..can't remember which one


With Naked eye or in some picture?

A M117 took part in APS operation..... few of its pics circulated on internet for some time.


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## SQ8

Tipu7 said:


> If Dragoon was cramped & expensive to produce then why it's TOT agreement was done in first place?


Because people have accounts in Dubai and elsewhere that can be filled, or provided Land Cruisers, or vacations with white girls on exotic islands.

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## Tipu7

Oscar said:


> Because people have accounts in Dubai and elsewhere that can be filled, or provided Land Cruisers, or vacations with white girls on exotic islands.


I was afraid you will say that ......
RS visited HIT assembly line and he particularly checked Dragoon assembly line.
It will be very unfortunate to lose such capable platform due to kick backs & white chicks stuff


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## Khafee

Oscar said:


> Because people have accounts in Dubai and elsewhere that can be filled, or provided Land Cruisers, or vacations with white girls on exotic islands.


Well accounts in Dubai, can be closed, all you need to do is ask .

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## JamD

Tipu7 said:


> I was afraid you will say that ......
> RS visited HIT assembly line and he particularly checked Dragoon assembly line.
> It will be very unfortunate to lose such capable platform due to kick backs & white chicks stuff


You should complete that sentence. RS was very displeased with the dragoon. (EDIT: RS was especially displeased with fact that HIT had the machines and capability to produce a lot of its parts but almost everything was being imported). All the parts are imported at exorbitant rates and locally assembled. The rate of production is very slow. Most of the ones people see are American assembled m117s. Also the army is displeased with cramped internal space. It is supposed to carry only 4 soldiers comfortably. This MRAP is supposed to have 13 seats.



Tipu7 said:


> Can you give bit more explanation about this part?
> If Dragoon was cramped & expensive to produce then why it's TOT agreement was done in first place?
> And we have seen Dragoon with Air port security only. No army, no police, no FC or ranger.


It is in very limited production (assembly). Army is looking for an out. Seems like a blunder someone has made (or kickback).

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## Muhammad Omar

they should have chosen Digital camo... 

Also it should have Cannon like this. that would make this a Beast

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## Hassan Guy

Where does the engine come from?


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## denel

Again this being a prototype; i see many issues with this - it is too flat a V to deflect with any serious effect; is this going to be a single v or double v design. Next, i would like to see how they are designing the seats and harnesses. it is just too close to the ground and impact to passengers is extreme e.g that is why casspir design is defacto bible for all.


http://sadfgroup.org/equipment/ratel-infantry-fighting-vehicle/

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## KediKesenFare3

The name of the company is very unfortunate. Don't except orders from Europe and especially Western Europe. They should use a more neutral name.

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## GoldenRatio1618

Much Needed Heavy Machines Very Good to See Production in Pakistan...


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## SQ8

Khafee said:


> Well accounts in Dubai, can be closed, all you need to do is ask .


Nope, the accounts provide to the economy. Dubai is reno, pattaya and the cayman islands all rolled into one


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## Rafi

Oscar said:


> Nope, the accounts provide to the economy. Dubai is reno, pattaya and the cayman islands all rolled into one



1, Scandinavian girls (Swedish, Norwegian, Danish).
2, Russian, Ukrainian and Polish etc, (that side of the iron curtain.
3, German.

Thats my top 3,


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## SQ8

Rafi said:


> 1, Scandinavian girls (Swedish, Norwegian, Danish).
> 2, Russian, Ukrainian and Polish etc, (that side of the iron curtain.
> 3, German.
> 
> Thats my top 3,


All available in Dubai depending on your pocket.

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## Rafi

Oscar said:


> All available in Dubai depending on your pocket.



I know  Oscar my brother, I bet you have dipped your wick there, Dubai (no offence), is like the old Port Royal in Jamaica, anything you want, you got it, as long as you have molaa.


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## ali_raza

Rafi said:


> I know  Oscar my brother, I bet you have dipped your wick there, Dubai (no offence), is like the old Port Royal in Jamaica, anything you want, you got it, as long as you have molaa.


u guys should try arab


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## Rafi

ali_raza said:


> u guys should try arab



You can't go wrong with Tunisian, magnifique.

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## SQ8

Rafi said:


> I know  Oscar my brother, I bet you have dipped your wick there, Dubai (no offence), is like the old Port Royal in Jamaica, anything you want, you got it, as long as you have molaa.


Including arms dealers with lounges, where by hapoenstance both Indian and Pakistani scientists/intel officials sat across each other breaking their brains wondering what the other guy was there for



ali_raza said:


> u guys should try arab





Rafi said:


> You can't go wrong with Tunisian, magnifique.


Lets get back to the topic before we get called zina kars

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## Khafee

Oscar said:


> Nope, the accounts provide to the economy. Dubai is reno, pattaya and the cayman islands all rolled into one


Good deflection !

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## ADIL SHERDIL

Its a Beast and a beautiful one. Would love to find out specs, cost etc. If things went well and if it meat PA needs it would create a solid MRAP for sale in international market


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## XenoEnsi-14

OOOooOOOooo! Anti-Semites Viertes Reich supporters. 

So much _Evol _in Pakistan... 


<<< Because someone will take me seriously and I don't want to be accused of racism or held liable to this post or the consequences of posting it.

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## The Sandman

Wait a min? this actually made in Pakistan? wow looks so good and what an awesome name

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## TheNoob

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> OOOooOOOooo! Anti-Semites Viertes Reich supporters.
> 
> So much _Evol _in Pakistan...
> 
> 
> <<< Because someone will take me seriously and I don't want to be accused of racism or held liable to this post or the consequences of posting it.



Hail hitler.

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## denel

The Sandman said:


> Wait a min? this actually made in Pakistan? wow looks so good and what an awesome name


friend, this wont survive a 5kg landmine.

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## Cyberian

Ma'Shah'Allah, looks sleek and very impressive.

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## Inception-06

Remembers me a little bit with the Sd.Kfz.251 of the Wehrmacht, also the name of the Company "Blitzkrieg", is interesting, which is also related to the Wehrmacht war Tactic of WW2:












JamD said:


> View attachment 351873
> View attachment 351875
> View attachment 351876
> View attachment 351877
> View attachment 351879




Excellent design, and its good that it has a turret, while the gun looks like a mock up, better than this dragon shit, which even does not have even turret and board gun .



JamD said:


> This is just the first prototype which was hurried into production to be showcased at IDEAS. So to answer your question, no. This was born out of the army's dissatisfaction with the Dragoon I am told, which is very cramped and very expensive to produce (assemble).



Dragoon is a piece of sheet, the version which HIT did assemble, did come originally without a turret and any armaments, what a waste and useless vehicle ! This Blitzkrieg vehicle need still some improvements, but looks very futuristic and battle functional ! MASHALLAH

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## JamD

denel said:


> friend, this wont survive a 5kg landmine.


@denel If you want you could write a short point by point crtique of the design that you can see and I will be more than happy to deliver it to the designer for the next iteration of the design. I'm sure it would be very helpful. Thanks.

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## Blue Marlin

when is ideas 2016 ?

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Blue Marlin said:


> when is ideas 2016 ?



Seminar (IDEAS) event from 22 to 25 November 2016.

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## Indus Falcon

Blue Marlin said:


> when is ideas 2016 ?


Are you planning to come?

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## Blue Marlin

Indus Falcon said:


> Are you planning to come?


no, but i have been there though, twice.

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## Thunder.Storm

!eon said:


> Nice
> but
> They should adopt local name. Blitzkrieg is giving false impression, and they are using wrong spelling.


Blitzkrieg is a method of warfare whereby an attacking force spearheaded by a dense concentration of armoured and motorised or mechanised infantry

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## Avijit

Beautiful design, must say!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

denel said:


> friend, this wont survive a 5kg landmine.


And you can guess the hull/chasis design from just a pic?

The V shape chasis cant be observed even on US MRAPs.






The height of Blitzkrieg looks nice.











...

Also Britzkrieg looks more like a MRAV than an MRAP.... In the same class or category like the Lazar Series MRAVs:

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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And you can guess the hull/chasis design from just a pic?
> 
> The V shape chasis cant be observed even on US MRAPs.
> View attachment 352803
> 
> 
> 
> The height of Blitzkrieg looks nice.
> View attachment 352805
> 
> 
> View attachment 352806
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Also Britzkrieg looks more like a MRAV than an MRAP.... In the same class or category like the Lazar Series MRAVs:
> 
> View attachment 352804


Bro I am hearing that there are chances that AK 2 may be revealed at this IDEAS. Do you have any information ?

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## !eon

Sir can you see my flags ? I think, I know a bit more. 


Thunder.Storm said:


> Blitzkrieg is a method of warfare whereby an attacking force spearheaded by a dense concentration of armoured and motorised or mechanised infantry

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## Muhammad Omar

Any Test video released of this surviving an IED ???


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## denel

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And you can guess the hull/chasis design from just a pic?
> 
> The V shape chasis cant be observed even on US MRAPs.
> View attachment 352803
> 
> 
> 
> The height of Blitzkrieg looks nice.
> View attachment 352805
> 
> 
> View attachment 352806
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Also Britzkrieg looks more like a MRAV than an MRAP.... In the same class or category like the Lazar Series MRAVs:
> 
> View attachment 352804


Friend, i lived and slept with casspirs, buffels, ratels, mambas for over a decade and had one major landmine go off under one. The questions i asked are relevant if you are working in this field.






This casspir says it all and answers the question. thank you. Maybe there are srilankan people around who used buffels and they will tell you.






Another variant - just some tests to undergo for QA.

For those affectionados for Top Gear; here is the Marauder/Nyala/Mamba/RG32. This is the lower tier of mineproof.






If one wants to build up experience, then one needs to study from ground level from Chimurenga experience in rhodesia.

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## Fenrir

Looks can be deceiving and drawing any conclusions from simple pictures is very difficult. Dingo doesn't have a noticeably distinctive hull shape and looking at the type from several different profiles, it can be easy to miss that it is infact a V-hulled vehicle and is used to support EOD operations.
































By contrast, the Pakistani also doesn't clearly present its hull shape either, but was clearly designed to be mine and ambush resistant - and makes a point to be presented as such. Its level of protection can't be gauged from pictures alone, but it's shaping and features such as reinforced windows and tires hints at its usage.

All in all it looks nice, I don't really care fore the choice in armament, but the only major issues with the type would be ground clearance and center of gravity, both of which can't easily be derived from pictures alone.

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## Tipu7

Pakistan Have about Dozen Dingo in its arsenal and there is similarity in design of Blitzkrieg APC and Dingo in lower hull .....


Technogaianist said:


> By contrast, the Pakistani also doesn't clearly present its hull shape either, but was clearly designed to be mine and ambush resistant - and makes a point to be presented as such.

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## Fenrir

Tipu7 said:


> there is similarity in design of Blitzkrieg APC and Dingo in lower hull .....



I'm not sure which pics you're looking at, but the similarities between the two designs - apart from being mine resistant vehicles - aren't very pronounced. The wheel well sure, but it's just a standard design on an MRAP-type:











Comparing the Blitzkrieg design with Dingo... I'm not really noticing a resemblance, tbh.




























Tipu7 said:


> Pakistan Have about Dozen Dingo in its arsenal.



Pictures? Forgive my cynicism, but for any system, someone on this forum claims Pakistan has a few dozen of them, often without providing any evidence to support that claim.

EDAs from Euro stocks in Afghanistan may have been transferred to Pakistan, specifically from German stocks, but I'd like pictures too.


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## Khafee

Technogaianist said:


> Pictures? Forgive my cynicism, but for any system, someone on this forum claims Pakistan has a few dozen of them, often without providing any evidence to support that claim.
> 
> EDAs from Euro stocks in Afghanistan may have been transferred to Pakistan, specifically from German stocks, but I'd like pictures too.



A lot of NATO hardware was distributed between Afghanistan and Pakistan, when some members of NATO withdrew from A'stan. The quantities were obviously limited, maybe that's why they are sparingly used, and out of the public eye.


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## Inception-06

@Sarge have you checked this topic ? BLITZKRIEG solutions !


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## kaonalpha

The Hamza 8×8 has been setup in hall 6 at expo centre karachi. To those who are based in karachi you can either fill your online registration form or you can go to the sports opposite to the National Cricket Stadium to get your self registered and get your passes.
Civilians and forces alike will be entertained.

Remember your CNIC (Valid !) Is your pass. Providing false information or presenting any other id except for servicemen will not gaurentee your entry. Registration will begin from 20th.
.
No money will be taken for the passes. Please bring money for the food stalls that have been exclusively setup to cater the demands of Forces and civilians alike.

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## Thunder.Storm

!eon said:


> Sir can you see my flags ? I think, I know a bit more.


was unable to see flags in phone now can see in pc.


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## Tipu7



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## Path-Finder

denel said:


> Friend, i lived and slept with casspirs, buffels, ratels, mambas for over a decade and had one major landmine go off under one. The questions i asked are relevant if you are working in this field.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This casspir says it all and answers the question. thank you. Maybe there are srilankan people around who used buffels and they will tell you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another variant - just some tests to undergo for QA.
> 
> For those affectionados for Top Gear; here is the Marauder/Nyala/Mamba/RG32. This is the lower tier of mineproof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If one wants to build up experience, then one needs to study from ground level from Chimurenga experience in rhodesia.


No doubt South Africa are leaders in MRAP type vehicles. I don't know why expertise were not roped in from SA for development of MRAP but hey that how it is.

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## denel

Path-Finder said:


> No doubt South Africa are leaders in MRAP type vehicles. I don't know why expertise were not roped in from SA for development of MRAP but hey that how it is.


Yes, we were not the founders but Rhodesian farmers. We learnt having to deal with mines in 1974 Angola campaign.

All US mine proof vehicles are based on South african pedigree - our engineers were in the US where DoD was using them to come up with Oshkosh etc - those are based on Casspir chassis. It is also not just a basic V but multiple areas you have to deal with. If you look at the video - and that is reality - we had a landmine go off under a buffel - we just changed the tyre and moved on - that is what is needed - complete independence from massive logistic lines and being able ot deal with situations.

Denel dynamics and Paramount are making a lot of jv in many countries e.g. azerbaijan, saudi etc using similar blueprints and other countries call it their own. I guess 30 years of living and breathing this work makes it valueable.

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## YeBeWarned

kaonalpha said:


> The Hamza 8×8 has been setup in hall 6 at expo centre karachi. To those who are based in karachi you can either fill your online registration form or you can go to the sports opposite to the National Cricket Stadium to get your self registered and get your passes.
> Civilians and forces alike will be entertained.
> 
> Remember your CNIC (Valid !) Is your pass. Providing false information or presenting any other id except for servicemen will not gaurentee your entry. Registration will begin from 20th.
> .
> No money will be taken for the passes. Please bring money for the food stalls that have been exclusively setup to cater the demands of Forces and civilians alike.



Any idea if Camera's are allowed ?? for Civilians ?


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## Zarvan

denel said:


> Yes, we were not the founders but Rhodesian farmers. We learnt having to deal with mines in 1974 Angola campaign.
> 
> All US mine proof vehicles are based on South african pedigree - our engineers were in the US where DoD was using them to come up with Oshkosh etc - those are based on Casspir chassis. It is also not just a basic V but multiple areas you have to deal with. If you look at the video - and that is reality - we had a landmine go off under a buffel - we just changed the tyre and moved on - that is what is needed - complete independence from massive logistic lines and being able ot deal with situations.
> 
> Denel dynamics and Paramount are making a lot of jv in many countries e.g. azerbaijan, saudi etc using similar blueprints and other countries call it their own. I guess 30 years of living and breathing this work makes it valueable.



Pakistan should get MRAP from South Africa with TOT. South Africa is making seriously good MRAP and we badly need them due to urban and guerrilla warfare we are experiencing


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## Max

looking great.. Hope vehicle pass all tests and soon join PA..


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## thrilainmanila

i'll be honest i've always found myself disappointed with ideas defence exhibition, they fail to show anything major which we don't already know about. The main part of the defence exhibition is showing off the AL-Khalid on the mud track. thats about it.


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## Fenrir

thrilainmanila said:


> i'll be honest i've always found myself disappointed with ideas defence exhibition, they fail to show anything major which we don't already know about.



To be fair that's just how defense expos are, not just IDEAS. I've been to Modern Marine, worked a booth at AUSA, been to ISDEF and Eurosatory. They're all the same. Look at China's recent Zhuhai Airshow, was there much that wasn't shown before or we didn't know about? J-31, J-20, various armored vehicles, UAVs and anti-tank weapons... it's all stuff we already knew about, some was only just being shown publically or officially, but we already knew about practically everything at the show.

Expos like these (this one from Poland - link to the thread) are about impressing domestic audiences, international prestige and military contracts for gear that is often experimental or out-of-pocket for the company and they need to impress the military to recoup some of their losses, or else the R&D and development costs are largely wasted.


























I've worked a few and been to plenty, they're all about money and impressions, but showing off new or previously unseen gear isn't much of a priority, and will typically be done behind scenes away from prying eyes.

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## imranyounus

Technogaianist said:


> To be fair that's just how defense expos are, not just IDEAS. I've been to Modern Marine, worked a booth at AUSA, been to ISDEF and Eurosatory. They're all the same. Look at China's recent Zhuhai Airshow, was there much that wasn't shown before or we didn't know about? J-31, J-20, various armored vehicles, UAVs and anti-tank weapons... it's all stuff we already knew about, some was only just being shown publically or officially, but we already knew about practically everything at the show.
> 
> Expos like these (this one from Poland - link to the thread) are about impressing domestic audiences, international prestige and military contracts for gear that is often experimental or out-of-pocket for the company and they need to impress the military to recoup some of their losses, or else the R&D and development costs are largely wasted.
> 
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> 
> I've worked a few and been to plenty, they're all about money and impressions, but showing off new or previously unseen gear isn't much of a priority, and will typically be done behind scenes away from prying eyes.


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## thrilainmanila

Technogaianist said:


> To be fair that's just how defense expos are, not just IDEAS. I've been to Modern Marine, worked a booth at AUSA, been to ISDEF and Eurosatory. They're all the same. Look at China's recent Zhuhai Airshow, was there much that wasn't shown before or we didn't know about? J-31, J-20, various armored vehicles, UAVs and anti-tank weapons... it's all stuff we already knew about, some was only just being shown publically or officially, but we already knew about practically everything at the show.
> 
> Expos like these (this one from Poland - link to the thread) are about impressing domestic audiences, international prestige and military contracts for gear that is often experimental or out-of-pocket for the company and they need to impress the military to recoup some of their losses, or else the R&D and development costs are largely wasted.
> 
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> 
> I've worked a few and been to plenty, they're all about money and impressions, but showing off new or previously unseen gear isn't much of a priority, and will typically be done behind scenes away from prying eyes.


i'll give you an example they've been parading the same things since ideas 2000 the AL-khalid is the star of the show on the mud track, the ssg do a live demo, there is a JF-17 with some ordinance displayed, they'll try and get peoples jaw dropped with that corner shot rifle they've done it since 2008. i highly doubt most defence exhibits have the same outline like they did for the past 16 years.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

thrilainmanila said:


> i'll give you an example they've been parading the same things since ideas 2000 the AL-khalid is the star of the show on the mud track, the ssg do a live demo, there is a JF-17 with some ordinance displayed, they'll try and get peoples jaw dropped with that corner shot rifle they've done it since 2008. i highly doubt most defence exhibits have the same outline like they did for the past 16 years.



Block II,Azab DMR,LR Sniper rifle,Hamza 8X8 APC,New Mine Dispenser System,Unmanned Ground Surv Vehicle,Radars,new ASMs etc are the few thing i can think of right now..


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## Zarvan

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Block II,Azab DMR,LR Sniper rifle,Hamza 8X8 APC,New Mine Dispenser System,Unmanned Ground Surv Vehicle,Radars,new ASMs etc are the few thing i can think of right now..


I am hearing again and again that AK 2 would be finally revealed but I not keeping my hopes high although my friends are insisting that AK2 would be there so let see. INSHALLAH after few days we all would see what is new and what is old

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## Dazzler

Chances of AK2 attending are 50/50. Dont cross your fingers, you might end up breaking them.

Most stuff of the show will be similar what you and i have been seeing bar a few items here and there. I pity the planners of IDEAS. Infact, the 2004 was the best show of all.

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## Muhammad Omar

Only Blitzkreig (Hamza 8x8) gonna be new think in this show...


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## JamD



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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/800070375006728193

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## Zarvan

Basel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/800070375006728193


Is HIT building the turret and Gun like the one shown in this picture ?



Dazzler said:


> Chances of AK2 attending are 50/50. Dont cross your fingers, you might end up breaking them.
> 
> Most stuff of the show will be similar what you and i have been seeing bar a few items here and there. I pity the planners of IDEAS. Infact, the 2004 was the best show of all.


If rumours are there that means AK 2 is complete and even if not at this ideas I think we would see pictures of it in next few months

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## Zarvan

@Dazzler what is your opinion on this Hamza 8 X 8 and what changes and improvements you want to see in it ?


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## Dazzler

Zarvan said:


> @Dazzler what is your opinion on this Hamza 8 X 8 and what changes and improvements you want to see in it ?



Considering what HIT had come up with previously, this one seems like it will deliver the goods. A lot of work is still needed as the armour plating look uneven and placed in a hurry perhaps. I would like to see more floor and frontal plating for better mine protection.

Overall, its leaps and bounds ahead of previous offerings.

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## Basel

Zarvan said:


> Is HIT building the turret and Gun like the one shown in this picture ?
> 
> 
> If rumours are there that means AK 2 is complete and even if not at this ideas I think we would see pictures of it in next few months



I don't know yet, I shared what is available on twitter.


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## Muhammad Omar

Any Testing video of it?? Surviving an IED Blast?

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## Zarvan

Muhammad Omar said:


> Any Testing video of it?? Surviving an IED Blast?


Bro this is prototype not even tested by anyone till now. It was made in past one year

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## Muhammad Omar

Zarvan said:


> Bro this is prototype not even tested by anyone till now. It was made in past one year



Just Wow


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## Zarvan

Muhammad Omar said:


> Just Wow


I know it sounds stupid but if a private company can come up with this beauty in only nine months than expect what we can do in upcoming months.

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## kaonalpha

The "haphazard MRAP" at expo.

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## Zarvan

kaonalpha said:


> View attachment 353800
> 
> 
> The "haphazard MRAP" at expo.


This was developed in past 9 months so there is more work to do on it but even 9 months work has give excellent result and would get much better.


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## Muhammad Omar

Zarvan said:


> This was developed in past 9 months so there is more work to do on it but even 9 months work has give excellent result and would get much better.



yupe being Optimistic


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## ZAC1

Whats it Specs ?


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## xyxmt

muhammadali233 said:


> Engine and chassis are local too?If impressive.



first you design a product without much investing in the menufactruring each and everything, If design is successful then you go invest in local production of what is financially beneficial...its business first


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## DESERT FIGHTER

kaonalpha said:


> View attachment 353800
> 
> 
> The "haphazard MRAP" at expo.



Not really an MRAP.. Rather MRAV.


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## Hallian_Khan

how useful it is against IED?


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## xyxmt

KediKesenFare said:


> The name of the company is very unfortunate. Don't except orders from Europe and especially Western Europe. They should use a more neutral name.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg


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## optimisticlad

kaonalpha said:


> View attachment 353800
> 
> 
> The "haphazard MRAP" at expo.


Sir will you please enlighten us what it really lacks...how its lack luster APC...what dimensions are missing....what are the core design modules which are neglected.....what are fundamental princples on which an APC which has to resist ambush..mines etc are built......
Thanx......extremely ignorant questions....


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## Incog_nito

Can I go to IDEAS as a civilian?


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## Flash_Ninja

JamD said:


> View attachment 351873
> View attachment 351875
> View attachment 351876
> View attachment 351877
> View attachment 351879




Great looking design but I think the body should be raised, the wheel arches and the wheels should also be much bigger.

sort of like this:





I think it would work great over environments with infrastructure such as towns, villages, and cities, but I'm not sure if this vehicle would fair well in the field over rougher terrain.


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## PAR 5

This is certainly not manufactured at HIT. The metal work is extremely neat and inside are European specification seats and equipment etc. My feeling is that this may be a prototype developed by some Western company that was lying rejected somewhere. Blitz Krieg Defense Solutions (who is primarily NOT a manufacturer and only makes bullet proof jackets etc) may have purchased this unit for display at IDEAS through the aegis of HIT being its manufacturing partner should the Army approves this model after trials. However first impressions are that its too big and bulk for operation use in and around Pakistani terrains and essentially narrow PAGGDANDDEES on which our vehicles have to move and maneuver. Secondly, its also not likely to withstand an IED explosion because of its very high side and under carriage profile. 

Someone in the private sector has spent a lot of money to have this imported into Pakistan. I sure hope they get their moneys worth

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## Zarvan

PAR 5 said:


> This is certainly not manufactured at HIT. The metal work is extremely neat and inside are European specification seats and equipment etc. My feeling is that this may be a prototype developed by some Western company that was lying rejected somewhere. Blitz Krieg Defense Solutions (who is primarily NOT a manufacturer and only makes bullet proof jackets etc) may have purchased this unit for display at IDEAS through the aegis of HIT being its manufacturing partner should the Army approves this model after trials. However first impressions are that its too big and bulk for operation use in and around Pakistani terrains and essentially narrow PAGGDANDDEES on which our vehicles have to move and maneuver. Secondly, its also not likely to withstand an IED explosion because of its very high side and under carriage profile.
> 
> Someone in the private sector has spent a lot of money to have this imported into Pakistan. I sure hope they get their moneys worth



Sir this is made by Pakistani company but a private one and it's made in last 9 months. If Army likes it HIT can get involved and improve it and turn it into a beast


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## PAR 5

Zarvan said:


> Sir this is made by Pakistani company but a private one and it's made in last 9 months. If Army likes it HIT can get involved and improve it and turn it into a beast



I have my doubts that this is made in Pakistan. I know HIT and their abilities very well. This is certainly not made at HIT. So the question arises, where exactly has this been made? Who are the previous users of this vehicle? How many units have been sold so far? If its an exclusive prototype for Army then why is it different from previous MRAP's? HIT had developed a similar model in the past years based on the Israeli CAT MCV that was rejected by the Army.

Finally you simply cannot make such a vehicle in just 9 months from scratch!!!! Even the most mature Armoured Vehicle manufacturing companies take years to design and eventually come up with initial prototypes etc.


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## Zarvan

PAR 5 said:


> I have my doubts that this is made in Pakistan. I know HIT and their abilities very well. This is certainly not made at HIT. So the question arises, where exactly has this been made? Who are the previous users of this vehicle? How many units have been sold so far? If its an exclusive prototype for Army then why is it different from previous MRAP's? HIT had developed a similar model in the past years based on the Israeli CAT MCV that was rejected by the Army.
> 
> Finally you simply cannot make such a vehicle in just 9 months from scratch!!!! Even the most mature Armoured Vehicle manufacturing companies take years to design and eventually come up with initial prototypes etc.


Sir it has been made in Pakistan by a private company there factory is close to Karachi Ship Yard

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## muhammadali233

Oxair Online said:


> Can I go to IDEAS as a civilian?


yes you just need your id card,rejoice!


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## krash

PAR 5 said:


> However first impressions are that its too big and bulk for operation use in and around Pakistani terrains and essentially narrow PAGGDANDDEES on which our vehicles have to move and maneuver.



Guess your asking us to develop an MRAP motorbike then. Don't know why an all terrain vehicle would need to follow "PAGGDANDDEES" though.......unless you want them to go trailing up in the mountains. Hey, we should develop a motorbike tank too.


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## SOHEIL

BLITZ KRIEG ! 

What does it mean in urdo?


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## PAR 5

Zarvan said:


> Sir it has been made in Pakistan by a private company there factory is close to Karachi Ship Yard



Factories making light armored vehicles (NIJ IV) are in Karachi yes, but never heard of a MRAP and MCV vehicle manufacturing factory in the private sector in Pakistan and that too in Karachi. Can you please let me know the exact name and address of this place near KSEW?


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## Army research

SOHEIL said:


> BLITZ KRIEG !
> 
> What does it mean in urdo?


Nein



Army research said:


> Nein


This be German and it means 'lightning attack '

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## SSGcommandoPAK

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1126837590717733

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## SOHEIL

Army research said:


> Nein
> 
> 
> This be German and it means 'lightning attack '



So is this a German TOT ?


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## Incog_nito

muhammadali233 said:


> yes you just need your id card,rejoice!


On which date can I get an entry there in?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

SOHEIL said:


> So is this a German TOT ?



No.. the name of the company is "Blitzkrieg".. associated with the Nazi Blitzkrieg tactics.. meaning "lightening attack"..



SOHEIL said:


> BLITZ KRIEG !
> 
> What does it mean in urdo?


یلغار

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## Inception-06

Muhammad Omar said:


> Just Wow



@Zarvan @Sarge @JamD @CHACHA"G" @DESERT FIGHTER







Here check this so called APC, its shame to present this vehicle without even an LMG (board machine gun), really I can't understand this HIT mentality, @Zarvan lets visit HIT Bureau, I will always stand behind you.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

PAR 5 said:


> This is certainly not manufactured at HIT. The metal work is extremely neat and inside are European specification seats and equipment etc. My feeling is that this may be a prototype developed by some Western company that was lying rejected somewhere. Blitz Krieg Defense Solutions (who is primarily NOT a manufacturer and only makes bullet proof jackets etc) may have purchased this unit for display at IDEAS through the aegis of HIT being its manufacturing partner should the Army approves this model after trials. However first impressions are that its too big and bulk for operation use in and around Pakistani terrains and essentially narrow PAGGDANDDEES on which our vehicles have to move and maneuver. Secondly, its also not likely to withstand an IED explosion because of its very high side and under carriage profile.
> 
> Someone in the private sector has spent a lot of money to have this imported into Pakistan. I sure hope they get their moneys worth



Its also powered by a 600 Horse Power Engine...

If anything the US MaxPros are useless in our terrain.. in FATA those monsters "sink" in the sand.... and are only used for transport of troops on metal roads...

If anything compare it with something like the Serbian Lazar series...

Lazar III ... powered by a 500 hp engine:








Ulla said:


> @Zarvan @Sarge @JamD @CHACHA"G" @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Here check this so called APC, its shame to present this vehicle without even an LMG (board machine gun), really I can't understand this HIT mentality, @Zarvan lets visit HIT Bureau, I will always stand behind you.



Its produced by a private company.. the turret seems to boast a 30MM canon and a secondary machine gun... and is still a prototype ... produced for the sole purpose of marketing at the IDEAS 2016.

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## Inception-06

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its also powered by a 600 Horse Power Engine...
> 
> If anything the US MaxPros are useless in our terrain.. in FATA those monsters "sink" in the sand.... and are only used for transport of troops on metal roads...
> 
> If anything compare it with something like the Serbian Lazar series...
> 
> Lazar III ... powered by a 500 hp engine:
> 
> View attachment 353973
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its produced by a private company.. the turret seems to boast a 30MM canon and a secondary machine gun... and is still a prototype ... produced for the sole purpose of marketing at the IDEAS 2016.




Brother, welcome back ^^ I don't mean the Blitzkrieg vehicle, check the picture which I postedn( check my previous post again please), I mean the Dragoon and M-113 APCs, the picture is from the Pakistan defense exhibition.

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## Muhammad Omar

There should be turrets like these on APC 
at least give them something for fighting

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## Zarvan

Ulla said:


> @Zarvan @Sarge @JamD @CHACHA"G" @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> View attachment 353974
> 
> 
> Here check this so called APC, its shame to present this vehicle without even an LMG (board machine gun), really I can't understand this HIT mentality, @Zarvan lets visit HIT Bureau, I will always stand behind you.


I am also fed up so instead of asking them ( HIT ) to design anything on their own or develop something lets get these from our brother country Turkey and ask HIT to produce them in large numbers or even hand over HIT to Turkey.





Tulpar IFV




Kaplan 20 IFV





FNSS 8 x 8





Otokar 8 x 8

HIT is not going to come up with anything no matter How much budget we give them so not either we wake up soon or we are doomed.

@Ulla @Sarge Yes we need to pay HIT a visit

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## Inception-06

Zarvan said:


> or even hand over HIT to Turkey.
> 
> 
> @Ulla @Sarge Yes we need to pay HIT a visit



I think the issue with HIT is it has a very low budget and not a specialized design Bureau/Team for APC development. They lack in many things, the most important: They are not MEMBERS in PDF !

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## Zarvan

Ulla said:


> I think the issue with HIT is it has a very low budget and not a specialized design Bureau/Team for APC development. They lack in many things, the most important: They are not MEMBERS in PDF !


I am pretty sure agencies watch this thread so HIT knows what is being talked about. But now I am seriously getting fed up of HIT. They are pissing me off and pretty much every one I know

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## Signalian

Zarvan said:


> HIT is not going to come up with anything no matter How much budget we give them so not either we wake up soon or we are doomed.
> 
> @Ulla @Sarge Yes we need to pay HIT a visit



HIT is given requirements by Army.
Army conducts exercises and evaluates what kind of platforms and weapons it requires and whats them tailor made by HIT. 
I know that you and @Ulla are extremely angry at this development. We can just pray as our qualifications or analysis or write ups will never be entertained by HIT.

The troops fighting COIN ops including FC are still not given MRAPs in large numbers, who are fighting a war every day, what to talk of APC for troops of Strike Corps.

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## Zarvan

Sarge said:


> HIT is given requirements by Army.
> Army conducts exercises and evaluates what kind of platforms and weapons it requires and whats them tailor made by HIT.
> I know that you and @Ulla are extremely angry at this development. We can just pray as our qualifications or analysis or write ups will never be entertained by HIT.
> 
> The troops fighting COIN ops including FC are still not given MRAPs in large numbers, who are fighting a war every day, what to talk of APC for troops of Strike Corps.



We are in sad state of affairs but we would keep giving our suggestions at least that is what we can do and keep raising our voice. Hopefully one day someone would listen to us or use their own brain and do it. @Ulla

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## Tsar Bomba

Zarvan said:


> We are in sad state of affairs but we would keep giving suggestions at least we can do that and raising our voice. Hopefully one day someone would listen to us use there brain and do it. @Ulla


Believe me they are more capable and wise, for sure they don't need advise from online keyboard warriors ans so called experts.


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## Zarvan

Tsar Bomba said:


> Believe me they are more capable and wise, for sure they don't need advise from online keyboard warriors ans so called experts.


Yes that is why they fail to come up with anything good. Just keep changing the tin called M113. For years they have failed to come up with AK 2 and even at this IDEAS I don't think we would see AK 2. The great Muhafiz they came up with was penetrated with G3 and AK 47 bullets when Chaudhry Ashraf used it during Lyari operation. I know How genius they are

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## Tsar Bomba

Zarvan said:


> Yes that is why they fail to come up with anything good. Just keep changing tin called M113. For years they have failed to come up with AK 2 and even at this IDEAS I don't think we would see AK 2. The great Muhafiz they came up with this was penetrated with G3 and AK 47 bullets when Chaudhry Ashraf used it during Lyari operation. I know How genius they are


Fund them well provide facilities and machinary they required then.open your mouth.


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## muhammadali233

Ulla said:


> @Zarvan @Sarge @JamD @CHACHA"G" @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> View attachment 353974
> 
> 
> Here check this so called APC, its shame to present this vehicle without even an LMG (board machine gun), really I can't understand this HIT mentality, @Zarvan lets visit HIT Bureau, I will always stand behind you.


these are ASF vehicles,this type of vehicle do not deploy heavy firepower,peeps at HIT are know better.


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## Inception-06

muhammadali233 said:


> these are ASF vehicles,this type of vehicle do not deploy heavy firepower,peeps at HIT are known better.



Bullshit, airports civil / and military in Pakistan have been attacked with the same brutality, weapon, and aggression as our frontline Troops: RPG-7, IEDs, Ak-47, PK Machine Guns, Dragunov Sniper rifles, SPG-9 Guns, rocket launcher so how would your response to such a firepower with G-3 and Ak-47 ? So what's the purpose of showing and having such unarmed vehicles ? Answer this questions.

In my opinion, ASF should have also good designed APC packed with firepower and protection.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ulla said:


> Bullshit, airports civil / and military in Pakistan have been attacked with the same brutality, weapon, and aggression as our frontline Troops: RPG-7, IEDs, Ak-47, PK Machine Guns, Dragunov Sniper rifles, SPG-9 Guns, rocket launcher so how would your response to such a firepower with G-3 and Ak-47 ? So what's the purpose of showing and having such unarmed vehicles ? Answer this questions.
> 
> In my opinion, ASF should have also good designed APC packed with firepower and protection.



ASF are glorified cops..not soldiers... they cant fight terrorists... thats not their job.


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## Inception-06

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> ... they cant fight terrorists... .




Karachi, Peshawar, Gwadar and many other civil Airports were already attacked by "terrorists", so when the airport is attacked ASF will lay down their weapons ? We are talking about Airport Security Force, right ?


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## CHACHA"G"

Ulla said:


> @Zarvan @Sarge @JamD @CHACHA"G" @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> View attachment 353974
> 
> 
> Here check this so called APC, its shame to present this vehicle without even an LMG (board machine gun), really I can't understand this HIT mentality, @Zarvan lets visit HIT Bureau, I will always stand behind you.


*Is this only to me or both have Mohafiz type turret. Seriously just pathetic , no firepower , If HIT cant design one then Y not we buy from International markets their are many systems available.
Why cant we buy 2 or 3 different Turrets from Turkey or China with TOT and produce them in Pakistan , Is it that hard .* 

*Here are some , Just open the link.
https://defence.pk/threads/turkish-remote-controlled-weapon-systems.349539/



@Zarvan , @Sarge , @Muhammad Omar , @DESERT FIGHTER *

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## Zarvan

Tsar Bomba said:


> Fund them well provide facilities and machinary they required then.open your mouth.





Ulla said:


> Karachi, Peshawar, Gwadar and many other civil Airports were already attacked by "terrorists", so when the airport is attacked ASF will lay down their weapons ? We are talking about Airport Security Force, right ?



Air Force guys need to be equipped with RPG and Sniper Guns and optics and night vision stuff. Nothing else.

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## RealNapster

ZAC1 said:


> Whats it Specs ?



It can also fly.

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## optimisticlad

extremely sad to visit such threads.
we are fighting the biggest front of asymmetric war...we have deployed most number of troops to counter the unconventional threat.
but our soldiers are deprived of the basic protection e.g MRAPS, MRAVs APC etc.
Day in and day out...FC jawaans are being assassinated on roads because they are vulnerably exposed to the shooting ghost killers on bikes.

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## JamD

Zarvan said:


> ...by a private company there factory is close to Karachi Ship Yard


Please don't spread misinformation. If you don't know, say you don't know. Blitzkrieg is near Islamabad.

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## Zarvan

JamD said:


> Please don't spread misinformation. If you don't know, say you don't know. Blitzkrieg is near Islamabad.


This was build in Karachi that I know for sure


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## JamD

Zarvan said:


> This was build in Karachi that I know for sure


Zarvan please stop. You are confusing it with another company that operates from Karachi maybe. This was NOT made in Karachi. I broke the news of this thing and posted the first pictures. Trust me perhaps. Or don't. Good day.

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## BordoEnes

This looks like a solid MRAP. In its own way it looks really similair to the Serbian Lazar concept. Congrats to our Pakistani bros.

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## AMG_12

Ulla said:


> Karachi, Peshawar, Gwadar and many other civil Airports were already attacked by "terrorists", so when the airport is attacked ASF will lay down their weapons ? We are talking about Airport Security Force, right ?


ASF is tasked with internal security,law and order etc, parameter security is either provided by Army or PAF at all airports.


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## denel

Zarvan said:


> Pakistan should get MRAP from South Africa with TOT. South Africa is making seriously good MRAP and we badly need them due to urban and guerrilla warfare we are experiencing


You just need to get casspirs or buffels - there are tonnes in surplus. Damn easy to maintain and keep going. It is such a pity your defence people are being sold rubbish vehicles which need a lot of maintenance and parts. If Sri Lanka can maintain and even evolve the design of a buffel - i am sure you guys can. Simplicity friends is key.

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## Inception-06

Game.Invade said:


> ASF is tasked with internal security,law and order etc, parameter security is either provided by Army or PAF at all airports.



May God I know that, I am reader and poster in PDF ForumS since 12 years, so of course I know what the ASF is, I have meet and talked to them personally at the Lahore and Islamabad Airport, tough guys, read the other previous replies and posts of other Members, in which context I asked, what the ASF is, it was more ironic question not seriously!

But thx for answering it, may be some did really not know it.



CHACHA"G" said:


> *Is this only to me or both have Mohafiz type turret. Seriously just pathetic , no firepower , If HIT cant design one then Y not we buy from International markets their are many systems available.
> Why cant we buy 2 or 3 different Turrets from Turkey or China with TOT and produce them in Pakistan , Is it that hard .*
> 
> *Here are some , Just open the link.
> https://defence.pk/threads/turkish-remote-controlled-weapon-systems.349539/
> 
> 
> 
> @Zarvan , @Sarge , @Muhammad Omar , @DESERT FIGHTER *




Bhai I have noticed that also on other topics (one of my post in this contex was for you), but some Members here try to explain that with "HIT knows better bla bla bla".


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## -------

They should of designed a vehicle that is 6x6, easier traversing roads and also easier for the logistics guys looking after the vehicle. 8x8 for a MRAP is overkill imo

Something like this

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

It's important to understand that HIT is a branch of the Army. Don't confuse HIT as some company that has any level of independence from GHQ. There might be some room, but for the most part, whatever GHQ tells HIT to produce, HIT will produce it. So, if by some chance GHQ picks up a sweet looking South African or Turkish MRAP with ToT, then yes, HIT will manufacture it under license. If not, then that is HIT's story.

I would say that of all of Pakistan's public sector defence firms, POF is probably the most independent, and that too by a slim margin. But the rest, e.g. HIT, PAC, KSEW, etc, are like the direct manufacturing arms of the Army, Air Force, and Navy, respectively. 

That said, we may be seeing a slight shift in that GHQ may be sending some private companies, notably Blitzkrieg Defense and Metal Engineering Works, RFPs outlining operational requirements, technical specifications, etc. In response, these companies are using that information to (1) design something in house (e.g. Blitzkrieg) or (2) partner with an overseas company (Metal Engineering Works) to propose to the Army.

It would be a game-changer if the Army decides to basically 'outsource' the requirement to one of these private sector companies (or both). Such an order would provide incentive to those companies to continue design work in the area and perhaps even get others interested, which may result in Turkish and/or South African designs making it to Pakistan, albeit through local private sector vendors or joint-ventures.

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## amardeep mishra

JamD said:


> Yes. I know the designer closely.


Hi dear @JamD
Will it be too much or controversial to ask for concrete proofs that it was indeed designed indigenously? I just hope it is not secretive to even reveal if it was indeed designed in-house as you claim. Kindly note I am merely asking.
My suspicion stems from the fact that no company can design entire 8x8 MRAP in less than an year!-even giants that have billions of dollars of revenue take something like 2-4 years to come up with their beta prototypes. And frankly the company we are talking about(i checked out their internet site for their research portfolio--and it had no mention of R&D or their platforms) has no prior experience in designing something like a 8x8 MRAP vehicle. In all likelyhood it seems like a cougar MRAP modified with an added axle for perhaps more payload capacity and cosmetic changes for better bullet protection from front maybe.



JamD said:


> t
> 
> Their website is horrendous. Not that it's much better but their facebook page has some pictures at least:
> https://www.facebook.com/Blitzkrieg-Defence-Solution-1654747064774934/
> 
> Also, it used to be called Cavalier before.


Also their facebook link doesnt work.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi dear @JamD
> Will it be too much or controversial to ask for concrete proofs that it was indeed designed indigenously? I just hope it is not secretive to even reveal if it was indeed designed in-house as you claim. Kindly note I am merely asking.
> My suspicion stems from the fact that no company can design entire 8x8 MRAP in less than an year!-even giants that have billions of dollars of revenue take something like 3-4 years to come up with their beta prototypes. And frankly the company we are talking about(i checked out their internet site for their research portfolio--and it had no mention of R&D or their platforms) has no prior experience in designing something like a 8x8 MRAP vehicle. In all likelyhood it seems like a cougar MRAP modified with an added axle for perhaps more payload capacity and cosmetic changes for better bullet protection from front maybe.
> 
> 
> Also their facebook link doesnt work.



Are you kidding?

How in the name of God are you comparing an MRAP with a fukin Multi role Combat Armoured Vehicle?

Which is twice as heavy,more protected,powered by a 600hp engine and a 30mm canon etc?

The one year claim was made by Zarvan not the company or @JamD 

Cougar MRAP














Hamza MRAV

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Combat-Master said:


> They should of designed a vehicle that is 6x6, easier traversing roads and also easier for the logistics guys looking after the vehicle. 8x8 for a MRAP is overkill imo
> 
> Something like this



Going by the few specs.... relating to its armor,transmission,engine and armament ... you should compare it with these:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

denel said:


> You just need to get casspirs or buffels - there are tonnes in surplus. Damn easy to maintain and keep going. It is such a pity your defence people are being sold rubbish vehicles which need a lot of maintenance and parts. If Sri Lanka can maintain and even evolve the design of a buffel - i am sure you guys can. Simplicity friends is key.



Thank you... bought a few dozen Caspirs.... guess the army didnt like em much so they got :


Very old pic of Casspirs - 2010-11:







Cougars and Buffalos:


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## amardeep mishra

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Are you kidding?
> 
> How in the name of God are you comparing an MRAP with a fukin Multi role Combat Armoured Vehicle?
> 
> Which is twice as heavy,more protected,powered by a 600hp engine and a 30mm canon etc?
> 
> The one year claim was made by Zarvan not the company or @JamD
> 
> Cougar MRAP
> 
> View attachment 354244
> 
> 
> View attachment 354249
> View attachment 354250
> 
> 
> Hamza MRAV
> 
> 
> View attachment 354245
> View attachment 354246
> 
> 
> View attachment 354251


Hi @DESERT FIGHTER 
Instead of talking without any concrete evidence,kindly provide proof from the designer and what exactly was their contribution based on both "value" and "technology/parts"--believe me that would be worth 1000 such words. I pray,you realize how such R&D works.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi @DESERT FIGHTER
> Instead of talking without any concrete evidence,kindly provide proof from the designer and what exactly was their contribution based on both "value" and "technology/parts"--believe me that would be worth 1000 such words. I pray,you realize how such R&D works.



Sure will wait a day or two till its publically unvieled before making ridiculous claims of it being a modified Cougar and whatnot...

Ironic thing is that people like you dont even point a finger at your own failed foriegn designed products but the second something comes out from our side its always an assembly right?

Get a grip man.


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## SOHEIL

It's not still clear for me !

German name ... Private company ... 8×8 MRAP !

Elaborate please


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## JamD

amardeep mishra said:


> Hi dear @JamD
> Will it be too much or controversial to ask for concrete proofs that it was indeed designed indigenously? I just hope it is not secretive to even reveal if it was indeed designed in-house as you claim. Kindly note I am merely asking.
> My suspicion stems from the fact that no company can design entire 8x8 MRAP in less than an year!-even giants that have billions of dollars of revenue take something like 2-4 years to come up with their beta prototypes. And frankly the company we are talking about(i checked out their internet site for their research portfolio--and it had no mention of R&D or their platforms) has no prior experience in designing something like a 8x8 MRAP vehicle. In all likelyhood it seems like a cougar MRAP modified with an added axle for perhaps more payload capacity and cosmetic changes for better bullet protection from front maybe.
> 
> 
> Also their facebook link doesnt work.


I wish I could satisfy your insatiable appetite for evidence but I can't. All I can say is that I know the lead designer closely but it's your word against mine so I'm not going to try to convince you. I actually had to take some pictures and info down from this thread because I had been told to.



SOHEIL said:


> It's not still clear for me !
> 
> German name ... Private company ... 8×8 MRAP !
> 
> Elaborate please


It used to be called Cavalier Industries up until recently. Just a name.

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## -------

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Going by the few specs.... relating to its armor,transmission,engine and armament ... you should compare it with these:
> View attachment 354260
> View attachment 354261
> View attachment 354262
> View attachment 354263



It's being developed as an MRAP and MRAPs have high center of gravity, which is most telling by the height of the vehicle. If it were to go up against all those vehicles you've posted in your set (Lazar, which is a Multirole Vehicle - not really an MRAP), it wouldn't stand a chance.

This is what it should be compared to;

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Combat-Master said:


> It's being developed as an MRAP and MRAPs have high center of gravity, which is most telling by the height of the vehicle. If it were to go up against all those vehicles you've posted in your set (Lazar, which is a Multirole Vehicle - not really an MRAP), it wouldn't stand a chance.
> 
> This is what it should be compared to;



Its being called a Multi Role Armoured Vehicle or Hamza APC.

Its running a 600hp engine

STANG IIII + Protection level + additional armour can be used

Apart from a 30MM Canon + secondary

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## -------

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its being called a Multi Role Armoured Vehicle or Hamza APC.
> 
> Its running a 600hp engine
> 
> STANG IIII + Protection level + additional armour can be used
> 
> Apart from a 30MM Canon + secondary



OP states it's an MRAP. STANAG Mine Protection 4a or 4b ?

Weapon station or Engine doesn't matter, the design does.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Combat-Master said:


> OP states it's an MRAP. STANAG Mine Protection 4a or 4b ?
> 
> Weapon station or Engine doesn't matter, the design does.



How about capabilities?

The company is calling it an MCV -- multirole combat vehicle;








SOHEIL said:


> It's not still clear for me !
> 
> German name ... Private company ... 8×8 MRAP !
> 
> Elaborate please



Blitzkrieg is an English word.. 

It's an MCV produced by a private Pakistani company... To be unveiled at IDEAS 2016 Defence Expo for Local and Foriegn market.

Too hard?

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## JamD

Combat-Master said:


> OP states it's an MRAP. STANAG Mine Protection 4a or 4b ?
> 
> Weapon station or Engine doesn't matter, the design does.



I may have assumed it is an MRAP. No one told me it was. I would trust the the official stance of the company more. I would change the thread title if I could. Sorry.

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## Syed Taha Wajahat

We need more participation of private sector in defense industry, we need private companies to establish gun and riffle manufacturing plants in Pakistan. We can invite international investors. we have great potential.


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## Syed Asif Bukhari

SOHEIL said:


> It's not still clear for me !
> 
> German name ... Private company ... 8×8 MRAP !
> 
> Elaborate please


very simple to understand .This MRAP is being designed and built by Private Pakistani Company which has been named after German war tactics BlitzKrieg . I know what u are trying to say . u better worry about Iranian fiber glass fighter jets .

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## SOHEIL

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> very simple to understand .This MRAP is being designed and built by Private Pakistani Company which has been named after German war tactics BlitzKrieg . I know what u are trying to say . u better worry about Iranian fiber glass fighter jets .



I didn't want to offend anybody 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How about capabilities?
> 
> The company is calling it an MCV -- multirole combat vehicle;
> 
> View attachment 354394
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blitzkrieg is an English word..
> 
> It's an MCV produced by a private Pakistani company... To be unveiled at IDEAS 2016 Defence Expo for Local and Foriegn market.
> 
> Too hard?



Thanks


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## -------

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How about capabilities?
> 
> The company is calling it an MCV -- multirole combat vehicle;
> 
> View attachment 354394





JamD said:


> I may have assumed it is an MRAP. No one told me it was. I would trust the the official stance of the company more. I would change the thread title if I could. Sorry.



I can barely make out 4b in that image, it's impressive. Would still like to see a 6x6 version.


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## Preacher

kaonalpha said:


> The Hamza 8×8 has been setup in hall 6 at expo centre karachi. To those who are based in karachi you can either fill your online registration form or you can go to the sports opposite to the National Cricket Stadium to get your self registered and get your passes.
> Civilians and forces alike will be entertained.
> 
> Remember your CNIC (Valid !) Is your pass. Providing false information or presenting any other id except for servicemen will not gaurentee your entry. Registration will begin from 20th.
> .
> No money will be taken for the passes. Please bring money for the food stalls that have been exclusively setup to cater the demands of Forces and civilians alike.


What about none-CNIC holders ? My younger brother is 18 and doesn't have a CNIC yet and is really into this stuff. Any way to get him registered ?


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

JamD said:


> I may have assumed it is an MRAP. No one told me it was. I would trust the the official stance of the company more. I would change the thread title if I could. Sorry.


You weren't wrong. The marketing material clearly says the Hamza has ballistic and mine protection right up to STANAG 4569 Level 4 and Level 4B, respectively. It can be used in those environments.

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## denel

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How about capabilities?
> 
> The company is calling it an MCV -- multirole combat vehicle;
> 
> View attachment 354394
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blitzkrieg is an English word..
> 
> It's an MCV produced by a private Pakistani company... To be unveiled at IDEAS 2016 Defence Expo for Local and Foriegn market.
> 
> Too hard?


Friend, correction - blitzkrieg is a german word. - it is two words - blitz which translates as lightening or fire with krieg as war. Dutch and Afrikaans as well as Flemish have the same german rooted words. For us afrikaans speakers, we commonly use blitz - it is a brand for charcoal lighter and local brew that is over 80% alcohol is also called witblitz - white lightening. Just like the word Commando - it is not english word but arrived into English after the Ango boer war around this region - Kommando was used by the boers.

Just a background, no offence meant.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

denel said:


> Friend, correction - blitzkrieg is a german word. - it is two words - blitz which translates as lightening or fire with krieg as war. Dutch and Afrikaans as well as Flemish have the same german rooted words. For us afrikaans speakers, we commonly use blitz - it is a brand for charcoal lighter and local brew that is over 80% alcohol is also called witblitz - white lightening. Just like the word Commando - it is not english word but arrived into English after the Ango boer war around this region - Kommando was used by the boers.
> 
> Just a background, no offence meant.



Its a loan word .. much like "Mogul" or "Guru"... but part of the english vocabulary..


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## denel

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Its a loan word .. much like "Mogul" or "Guru"... but part of the english vocabulary..


ok but dont say it is a english word - it is too recent in memory to make it an English word as it is in daily use in non english languages where it comes from.


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## Sulman Badshah

HAMZA 8x8 Spec (according to Program director)
30 ton weight
15 Ton payload capacity
600HP engine
20hp/Ton Power to weight ratio
can withstand against 14.5 mm round
10 kg of TNT under tires
can be fitted with from 7.62 to 30 mm machine gun
It can also modify to IFV as per requirement .. To make it IFV 105 mm or 90 mm Turret can be installed on HAMZA

@JamD Can you edit the very first post with these spec




The HAMZA 8x8 is a new vehicle fully designed and developed by the Pakistani Company Blitzkrieg to response to the new needs of Pakistani army. The vehicle showed at IDEAS 2016 is the second prototype and the HAMZA will be tested on the field in the next few months.

The hull of the HAMZA 8x8 provides standard protection Level 4 STANAG 4569, with ballistic protection against firing of small arms 14.5 mm caliber and mine blast of 10 kg of TNT under the wheels. The vehicle can be fitted with an armour package to increase the protection to Level 5 STANAG 4569.

The HAMZA 8x8 has weight of around 30 tons with a payload capacity of 15 tons. The vehicle is motorized with a 600hp engine offering a power to weight ration of over 20Hp/tons combined with fully independent suspension.

At IDEAS 2016, the HAMZA 8x8 is showed with a one-man turret mounted in center part of the roof armed with a 30mm cannon and one coaxial 7.62mm machine gun. According to Syed Muhammad Haroon, Defense Program Director at Blitzkried the HAMZA 8x8 is able to be fitted with a combat turret armed with a cannon up to 105mm.

At IDEAS 2016, the HAMZA 8x8 was presented in armoured personnel carrier variant but the vehicle can also be configured as riot control vehicle, IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle), fire support vehicle with 90 or 105 mm cannon, air defense vehicle or self-propelled mortar carrier.

Source: Army recognition

@Horus @WAJsal 

can you edit the first post in the thread with these spec ?/

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## JamD

Sulman Badshah said:


> HAMZA 8x8 Spec (according to Program director)
> 30 ton weight
> 15 Ton payload capacity
> 600HP engine
> 20hp/Ton Power to weight ratio
> can withstand against 14.5 mm round
> 10 kg of TNT under tires
> can be fitted with from 7.62 to 30 mm machine gun
> It can also modify to IFV as per requirement .. To make it IFV 105 mm or 90 mm Turret can be installed on HAMZA
> 
> @JamD Can you edit the very first post with these spec
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The HAMZA 8x8 is a new vehicle fully designed and developed by the Pakistani Company Blitzkrieg to response to the new needs of Pakistani army. The vehicle showed at IDEAS 2016 is the second prototype and the HAMZA will be tested on the field in the next few months.
> 
> The hull of the HAMZA 8x8 provides standard protection Level 4 STANAG 4569, with ballistic protection against firing of small arms 14.5 mm caliber and mine blast of 10 kg of TNT under the wheels. The vehicle can be fitted with an armour package to increase the protection to Level 5 STANAG 4569.
> 
> The HAMZA 8x8 has weight of around 30 tons with a payload capacity of 15 tons. The vehicle is motorized with a 600hp engine offering a power to weight ration of over 20Hp/tons combined with fully independent suspension.
> 
> At IDEAS 2016, the HAMZA 8x8 is showed with a one-man turret mounted in center part of the roof armed with a 30mm cannon and one coaxial 7.62mm machine gun. According to Syed Muhammad Haroon, Defense Program Director at Blitzkried the HAMZA 8x8 is able to be fitted with a combat turret armed with a cannon up to 105mm.
> 
> At IDEAS 2016, the HAMZA 8x8 was presented in armoured personnel carrier variant but the vehicle can also be configured as riot control vehicle, IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle), fire support vehicle with 90 or 105 mm cannon, air defense vehicle or self-propelled mortar carrier.
> 
> Source: Army recognition


Sorry I can not edit anymore. The mods may be able to.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

What ever we have now is Million times better then our first appraoch






RIP cat APC






Really , it is a tremendous achivement to broaden our capabilities in a modest fashion

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## Zarvan



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## peruni

Lazar 2 prototype vs Hamza - draw your own conclusions  - image is proportional scaled before it was applied and there is maybe a little difference in angle because original location of camera is normal to be slightly different and some angle differences exist. But some matching between this two is obvious. Don't forget that Lazar 2 is lighter when looking at distance between wheels and chassis.


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## Dazzler



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## Dr Shaheryar

peruni said:


> Lazar 2 prototype vs Hamza - draw your own conclusions  - image is proportional scaled before it was applied and there is maybe a little difference in angle because original location of camera is normal to be slightly different and some angle differences exist. But some matching between this two is obvious. Don't forget that Lazar 2 is lighter when looking at distance between wheels and chassis.


The difference is obvious. But nearly all 8x8 have similar looks. So what does it conclude.


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## peruni

Dr Shaheryar said:


> The difference is obvious. But nearly all 8x8 have similar looks. So what does it conclude.


But they (all 8x8) don't have same chassis measurement and same design of chasis that includes position of fuel reservoir and etc... And Lazar 2 was sold to Pakistan but complete deal was later detained by some Pakistan commission, so at least deep inside of Lazar 2 from Pakistan side was possible and it is obvious here. My conclusion is that there is some cooperation between Yugoimport and Blitzkrieg in a way that some license and or construction documentation is sold or similar. Chassis design and or parts and probably even 30mm gun is from Serbia, if you have better info for 30mm gun I would like to hear about it. Does Pakistan produce 30mm gun and cupola? Best regards.


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## CHACHA"G"

peruni said:


> But they (all 8x8) don't have same chassis measurement and same design of chasis that includes position of fuel reservoir and etc... And Lazar 2 was sold to Pakistan but complete deal was later detained by some Pakistan commission, so at least deep inside of Lazar 2 from Pakistan side was possible and it is obvious here. My conclusion is that there is some cooperation between Yugoimport and Blitzkrieg in a way that some license and or construction documentation is sold or similar. Chassis design and or parts and probably even 30mm gun is from Serbia, if you have better info for 30mm gun I would like to hear about it. Does Pakistan produce 30mm gun and cupola? Best regards.


*Sir G its Lazar , and a cheap copy ,,,,,,,,,,, Now does that make u happy , If Yes , I am very happy to help u out.

Now for Hamza , Its not IFV , Actually This is MRAP + AFV , That Gives You HAMZA 8 * 8 . A best Vehicle (with future upgrades and add-on Armour Protections). You can call it Multi Role Mine Protected Fighting Vehicle or Multi Role Mine Protected Fighting Armoured Personal Carrier. 
Best for Urban Wars or The War we are facing (TTP & even Afghanistan) 
IFV can be made on the basis of Hamza's Design , But that will look different then Current Hamza . *

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## HRK

peruni said:


> And Lazar 2 was sold to Pakistan but complete deal was later detained by some Pakistan commission



1- No Lazzar-2 was ever sold & delivered to Pakistan .... 
2- Only the some higher ups of Sindh (a province of Pakistan) *Police department* showed interest on behalf of some influential businessman & politicians without any testing & evolution ... those officials are now deposed from position in police department 
3- High court of Sindh intervened in this matter well before any contract was made b/w the concern parties, as public interest litigation was filled in high court against that deal.
4- So it is not right to link this new development with the previous corruption scandal related to Lazar-2 deal, if you have any other technical points related to Hamza 8x8 which you find necessary to discuss plz continue.

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## peruni

HRK said:


> 1- No Lazzar-2 was ever sold & delivered to Pakistan ....
> 2- Only the some higher ups of Sindh (a province of Pakistan) *Police department* showed interest on behalf of some influential businessman & politicians without any testing & evolution ... those officials are now deposed from position in police department
> 3- High court of Sindh intervened in this matter well before any contract was made b/w the concern parties, as public interest litigation was filled in high court against that deal.
> 4- So it is not right to link this new development with the previous corruption scandal related to Lazar-2 deal, if you have any other technical points related to Hamza 8x8 which you find necessary to discuss plz continue.



I did not said that deal was finished, read carefully my posts, but obliviously you delegations visited Serbia and Yugoimoport many times and there in Serbia as in many other fairs they where presented with Lazar 2 prototype and many details and not just Lazar but alsa BOV and look now in chassis. Scandal was only because procurement was badly done by Pakistan side no other influence or corruption was in stake.

Person in video about Hamza said it is 100% designed completely and produced in Pakistan, but wait if you dot produce main gun and many other crucial parts how can that be true statement.

My opinion of Hamza like many other very high vehicles has one BIG problem. That problem is in enemy who has a one very large and easy target. Without APS such vehicles are easy to eliminate on battlefield and carrying much troops is very bad because there can be many wounded or dead in case of attack. I personally prefer 4x4 and 6x6 with as much 6 soldiers and driver and commander. Smaller target and less chance of many casualties if vehicle is hit.

And to be clear I am happy for Pakistan because this is definitively something best you produced and showed by now in MRAP area but maybe Dragoon(coincidentally procured via Europe and realized with help of Belgium firm without any experience in that area after deal for 16 BOV was not realized) in my opinion Dragoon has more potential for further development and use than this high MRAP bus.


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## YeBeWarned

What Journey  To Ideas ... Finally    
wait for pics


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## Muhammad Omar

Zarvan said:


>



Cougar and Cheetah are Must buy for Rangers and Police patrolling specially in Karachi. Where Target Killers come and shot our Soldiers


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## amardeep mishra

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure will wait a day or two till its publically unvieled before making ridiculous claims of it being a modified Cougar and whatnot...
> 
> Ironic thing is that people like you dont even point a finger at your own failed foriegn designed products but the second something comes out from our side its always an assembly right?
> 
> Get a grip man.


@DESERT FIGHTER
I happen to know what we have and what we lack in terms of research performance and culture. I fail to understand as to why people like you who have never probably gone beyond a decent BS/MS degree,instead of proving their point rely on unwarranted mud-slinging!My friend dont you think it would have been far far better to prove your point instead of what you just said? I am sure it is not as secretive as your SLBMs and SSBNs that pakistan has been working on for decades now?



JamD said:


> I wish I could satisfy your insatiable appetite for evidence but I can't. All I can say is that I know the lead designer closely but it's your word against mine so I'm not going to try to convince you.


My dear friend @JamD
Dont you believe--the burden of proof lies on the party making claim! What is wrong in asking for a concrete evidence man?! I mean,seriously,I have lost all hopes--I guess proof and evidence are something that no one on the other side of the border takes seriously--especially in a vehicle like this!We are not even talking about secretive miniaturized nuclear reactor that PN has stashed somehere in KPK to hide from praying indian spy sats!Anyways!
And lastly,why do folks get riled up when they are faced with the prospect of proving their point?Or is PDF all about fan boy fantasies?

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

This without doubt will develop "FEAR" in the souls of the enemy a True MONSTER in infantary warfare


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## JamD

amardeep mishra said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> I happen to know what we have and what we lack in terms of research performance and culture. I fail to understand as to why people like you who have never probably gone beyond a decent BS/MS degree,instead of proving their point rely on unwarranted mud-slinging!My friend dont you think it would have been far far better to prove your point instead of what you just said? I am sure it is not as secretive as your SLBMs and SSBNs that pakistan has been working on for decades now?
> 
> 
> My dear friend @JamD
> Dont you believe--the burden of proof lies on the party making claim! What is wrong in asking for a concrete evidence man?! I mean,seriously,I have lost all hopes--I guess proof and evidence are something that no one on the other side of the border takes seriously--especially in a vehicle like this!We are not even talking about secretive miniaturized nuclear reactor that PN has stashed somehere in KPK to hide from praying indian spy sats!Anyways!
> And lastly,why do folks get riled up when they are faced with the prospect of proving their point?Or is PDF all about fan boy fantasies?


No. There is no burden of proof. This isn't a court of law and I'm not trying to win a case against you. You are free to make whatever conclusions you like. I feel no need to stroke my ego by proving anything.


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## amardeep mishra

JamD said:


> No. There is no burden of proof. This isn't a court of law and I'm not trying to win a case against you. You are free to make whatever conclusions you like. I feel no need to stroke my ego by proving anything.


@JamD
Off course! What else can be expected! Great!
Maybe for you proving means stroking ego?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

amardeep mishra said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> I happen to know what we have and what we lack in terms of research performance and culture.




Good for you..


> I fail to understand as to why people like you who have never probably gone beyond a decent BS/MS degree,instead of proving their point rely on unwarranted mud-slinging



Ok since I may never go beyond a BS/MS degree ... May I ask you something... Rishtay dena hai ? Are you offering me a "rishta" ? 

And oh people like you... Do you even get respect at your own house ? Dosri baar "curry" manganay per bhi beizzati hoti Ho gi.


> !My friend dont you think it would have been far far better to prove your point instead of what you just said? I am sure it is not as secretive as your SLBMs and SSBNs that pakistan has been working on for decades now?




Those "secretive" developments have been confirmed by the likes of Gen Kidwai and international think tanks.. The creation of Naval Strategic Command and so on..

You don't worry about that .., so piss off.



> My dear friend @JamD
> Dont you believe--the burden of proof lies on the party making claim! What is wrong in asking for a concrete evidence man?! I mean,seriously,I have lost all hopes--I guess proof and evidence are something that no one on the other side of the border takes seriously--especially in a vehicle like this!We are not even talking about secretive miniaturized nuclear reactor that PN has stashed somehere in KPK to hide from praying indian spy sats!Anyways!
> And lastly,why do folks get riled up when they are faced with the prospect of proving their point?Or is PDF all about fan boy fantasies?



Burden of proof? Who the fuk are you ? Some azzhole from across the border moaning on PDF ... Asking for proof?

And oh my the way .. The CEO of Blitzkrieg had confirmed it...
@Oscar. Take this trash out..

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## PAR 5

As per my information this prototype platform was purchased by the Pakistani company for a hefty price of around US$1M in order to be demonstrated at IDEAS and later handed over to the Army for potential tests and trials. I stand by my original assessment that this is not a locally developed or designed or even manufactured vehicle.


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## ACheiver

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> very simple to understand .This MRAP is being designed and built by Private Pakistani Company which has been named after German war tactics BlitzKrieg . I know what u are trying to say . u better worry about Iranian fiber glass fighter jets .


and Blitzkrieg mean "Lightining War"


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

This thing is just beautiful , beautiful it has a happy face , enemy does not likes that happy smily front face 
8 Big Wheels ready to romp over enemy


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## Blue Marlin

JamD said:


> No, those are imported and modified.


what engine and chasis does it use? also more importantly any updates?


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## JamD

Blue Marlin said:


> what engine and chasis does it use? also more importantly any updates?


Wasn't privy to that information. Company is making last ditch attempt to sell it to the army today and tomorrow. If unsuccessful another design based on this prototype in the 6x6 category is in the works for which this prototype will be cannibalized.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Blue Marlin said:


> what engine and chasis does it use? also more importantly any updates?


Uses its own "chassis".. 




Infantry Fighting Vehicle with 30 mm - 105 mm cannon
Armored Personnel Carrier with 50 Cal HMG
Armored Medical Evacuation
Self Propelled Mortar Carrier
Light Anti-Tank/ Heavy Anti-Tank
Light Anti-Aircraft Defense (LAAD)
*SPECIFICATIONS*
WEIGHTS & DIMENSIONS

•Combat Weight : 21 Tons •Dimensions (L x W X H) : 7.5m x 2.6m x 2.6m

•Wheel Base:1.4m / 2.01m / 1.4m •Ground Clearance : < 500 mm •Max Crew : 2 + 10

STANDARD EQUIPMENT

•Protection : Ballistic, Mine and IED as per STANAG 4569

•Mobility : Central Tyres Inflation System (CTIS) & Run-Flat Tyres

•Safety : Anti-Blast Seating system

DRIVELINE & TRANSMISSION
*
•Engine type : Heavy Duty Diesel Caterpillar C9 L 6-Cyl

•Transmission : Caterpillar CX28 Electronic Controlle 6-Speed Auto*

•Tyres : 395/85 R20 All Terrain •Suspension : Fully Independent

•Transfer Case : 2 Speed with Longitudinal Differential Lock

PERFORMANCE DETAILS

•Speed : 105 km/hr •Gradient : 60% •Side Slope : 30% •Vertical Obstacle : 0.5 m

•Ditch crossing: 1.5 m •Turning radius : 9.5 m •Trench : 1 m •Cruising range : < 600 km


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## Muhammad Omar

Is this Project Dead???


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## YeBeWarned

just to give some people the Idea how Massive this beast is ..
I am standing right in front of it, my height is 6 feet 2 inches ..

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## denel

Starlord said:


> just to give some people the Idea how Massive this beast is ..
> I am standing right in front of it, my height is 6 feet 2 inches ..


metric please.


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## muhammadali233

denel said:


> metric please.


188cm


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## denel

muhammadali233 said:


> 188cm


Thanks. most marps are tall except for Mamba - Casspir is a mother to get it or jump from. Ratel is a beauty. it is simply huge as well.


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## Inception-06

Muhammad Omar said:


> Is this Project Dead???



I think yes !


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## Zarvan

Ulla said:


> I think yes !


No It's not very much alive and in testing phase final decision in next few days


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## JamD

Zarvan said:


> No It's not very much alive and in testing phase final decision in next few days


Your source?



JamD said:


> Wasn't privy to that information. Company is making last ditch attempt to sell it to the army today and tomorrow. If unsuccessful another design based on this prototype in the 6x6 category is in the works for which this prototype will be cannibalized.





Zarvan said:


>



I certainly hope that your "source" isn't this tweet which is a poorly paraphrased and misconstrued version of my post on this very thread (note time lol).

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## Zarvan

JamD said:


> Your source?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly hope that your "source" isn't this tweet which is a poorly paraphrased and misconstrued version of my post on this very thread (note time lol).


This guy studies in NDU with Military Officers so he knows things and he is none other than @Tipu7


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

JamD said:


> Your source?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly hope that your "source" isn't this tweet which is a poorly paraphrased and misconstrued version of my post on this very thread (note time lol).


IMO the future of Cavalier's MRAP proposal might have been decided the day MVRDE was given the task to develop the 'Light Armed Vehicle Assault' (LAVA) platform. 

Although the LAVA may not be a dedicated MRAP, new light armoured vehicle designs can have defensibility against mine and IED blasts. See, for example, the U.S. JLTV, Tumosan Pusat, Paramount Group Marauder and Mbombe 4, etc.

I wonder if Cavalier could take the Hamza MCV and re-model it into a conventional 8x8 AFV? Just make it look like any other 8x8 out there?

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## JamD

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IMO the future of Cavalier's MRAP proposal might have been decided the day MVRDE was given the task to develop the 'Light Armed Vehicle Assault' (LAVA) platform.
> 
> Although the LAVA may not be a dedicated MRAP, new light armoured vehicle designs can have defensibility against mine and IED blasts. See, for example, the U.S. JLTV, Tumosan Pusat, Paramount Group Marauder and Mbombe 4, etc.
> 
> I wonder if Cavalier could take the Hamza MCV and re-model it into a conventional 8x8 AFV? Just make it look like any other 8x8 out there?


No plans for 8x8 AFV. Hamza wasn't able to gather any local interest. They are looking towards export market right now after which they will move on to other things.

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## Zarvan

JamD said:


> No plans for 8x8 AFV. Hamza wasn't able to gather any local interest. They are looking towards export market right now after which they will move on to other things.


Army is testing Hamza and yes we are interested in 8 X 8 Wheeled APC also and we are looking for that


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## JamD

Zarvan said:


> Army is testing Hamza and yes we are interested in 8 X 8 Wheeled APC also and we are looking for that


You have been misinformed my friend. Hamza is NOT going through any tests whatsoever. Trust me. You should trust me on Hamza at least by now.

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## Zarvan

JamD said:


> You have been misinformed my friend. Hamza is NOT going through any tests whatsoever. Trust me. You should trust me on Hamza at least by now.


They are going under tests trust me on that I can vouch for it


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## JamD

This is where Hamza was for past 3 days. Standing in a hangar looking pretty for COAS. Definitely not undergoing any tests.


COAS says there will be 'no compromise' on country's defence

Dawn.comJuly 19, 2017

Gen Bajwa inspects machine parts at Heavy Industries Taxila. - Photo courtesy ISPR

Chief of Army Staff (COAS) Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa on Wednesday said "no compromise will be made" on the country's defence "irrespective of the constraints".

He made the remarks on a visit to Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT), Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said Wednesday.

HIT is a military industrial complex that manufactures, rebuilds and upgrades tanks, tank guns and armoured personnel carriers.

Gen Bajwa was briefed on ongoing and future HIT defence projects. "HIT has a history of contributions to strengthen [the] conventional defence capability of the country," the press release quoted him as saying.

The COAS was also quoted as asking the HIT Chairman Lt Gen Naeem Ashraf to expedite ongoing projects to ensure they are completed on time. He assured the Army's "full support" to the defence industry.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1346301/coas-says-there-will-be-no-compromise-on-countrys-defence

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## Thunder.Storm

There was a news about Pakistan army buying t 55 tanks from Ukraine. Any updates on that deal and why we are buying that BS. @Zarvan


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## Incog_nito

So, any orders for Pak Army or any other side.


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## JamD

JamD said:


> Hamza 6x6 to be revealed at BIDEC 2017.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamza 8x8 is no more (and therefore impossible that it is undergoing under any testing as claimed by some members here lol).

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## Muhammad Omar

Look at all these Vehicles by Cavalier Group I think Army should do joint venture with them to produce all these vehicle in Pakistan 

IFV MARPS Patrol Vehicles will made here


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The two on the right ... are they proposals for the Medical Recovery Vehicle and Light Armed Vehicle Assault (LAVA) listed in the MoDP report? Light armoured 4x4 utility vehicle...


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## JamD

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The two on the right ... are they proposals for the Medical Recovery Vehicle and Light Armed Vehicle Assault (LAVA) listed in the MoDP report? Light armoured 4x4 utility vehicle...


I don't know but I can ask the designer. Will get back.

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## JamD

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The two on the right ... are they proposals for the Medical Recovery Vehicle and Light Armed Vehicle Assault (LAVA) listed in the MoDP report? Light armoured 4x4 utility vehicle...


So the person doesn't know of the MoDP proposals so these are not for that.

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## Sulman Badshah

Blitzkreig Defence Solution is a subsidiary of Cavalier group 
and there are other Vehicles in pipeline Too


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## Muhammad Omar

PA should do JV with this Group 

8x8 MARP 
6x6 IFV
4x4 Patrol & Armored Vehicles

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## Dazzler

They are making some interesting stuff...

http://www.cedsg.com/Defense Systems.htm


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## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> They are making some interesting stuff...
> 
> http://www.cedsg.com/Defense Systems.htm


They are also offering Sniper Rife and Night Vision stuff man these kind of companies are the way forward instead of HIT and POF


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## ashok321




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## DESERT FIGHTER

peruni said:


> But they (all 8x8) don't have same chassis measurement and same design of chasis that includes position of fuel reservoir and etc... And Lazar 2 was sold to Pakistan but complete deal was later detained by some Pakistan commission, so at least deep inside of Lazar 2 from Pakistan side was possible and it is obvious here. My conclusion is that there is some cooperation between Yugoimport and Blitzkrieg in a way that some license and or construction documentation is sold or similar. Chassis design and or parts and probably even 30mm gun is from Serbia


Actually their website states..that they are JV partners with Paks HIT and British Jankel Armouring Co.

Lazars were brought by Sindh police... and was cancelled due to a corruption scandal...



> if you have better info for 30mm gun I would like to hear about it. Does Pakistan produce 30mm gun and cupola? Best regards.


IDK, but HITs Hamza IFV has one..


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