# Australian New PM Wants Closer Ties With ‘Giant’ Indonesia



## Indos

Australian PM’s Rival Wants Closer Ties With ‘Giant’ Indonesia​








Labor leader said Indonesia would one day be a ‘superpower’
His party’s lead over Australia PM’s coalition narrows

By
Ben Westcott
May 17, 2022, 10:43 PM PDT
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Australia’s Labor leader Anthony Albanese has picked Indonesia as one of his first diplomatic visits if he wins Saturday’s election and becomes prime minister, saying Canberra needs to build closer ties with the future “superpower

"Indonesia will grow to be an economy that’s substantial in the world, we live in a region whereby in the future we will have China, India and Indonesia as giants.

"We need to strengthen that economic partnership," he said at the National Press Club in Canberra.

Albanese did not lay out specific policies to bring the two countries closer together but said he wanted to expand "people-to-people" partnerships and build engagement with Jakarta including in areas like maritime safety.


The Labour leader questioned why relations between Australia and Indonesia were not closer, given the country’s proximity and the fact that Jakarta would one day "be a superpower in the world".

"We need to really strengthen the relationship," he said.

Indonesia is the one of the countries closest to Australia geographically, with security ties covering counter-terrorism and border protection. There have been strains in that relationship from alleged abuses by Indonesian special forces in East Timor in the late 1990s to revelations of Australian spies tapping then-president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono’s phone in 2013.

In recent months, Indonesia has expressed concerns over a new security pact between the US, UK and Australia that will help Canberra build nuclear-powered submarines while escalating tensions with China.

Albanese is currently in the final days of a six-week campaign against the centre-right government of Prime Minister Scott Morrison. Recent polling has shown a tightening election contest between the two leaders, with both competing for 76 seats to form government in Australia’s 151-seat Parliament.

He said if he won the vote on Saturday he would be heading to a meeting of the Quad in Japan on Monday, a diplomatic trial by fire where he’d hold talks with US President Joe Biden, Japan Prime Minister Fumio Kishida and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Albanese said he would continue elements of Morrison’s diplomatic approach to Australia’s allies, while adding he believed trust needed to be rebuilt with some of the country’s partners.

When asked about reports in the Guardian that the Chinese government would seek a diplomatic reset with whichever leader won the election on May 21, Albanese just said the relationship between the two countries would be "challenging” going forward. - BLOOMBERG









Australian PM’s Rival Wants Closer Ties With ‘Giant’ Indonesia


Australia’s Labor leader Anthony Albanese has picked Indonesia as one of his first diplomatic visits if he wins Saturday’s election and becomes prime minister, saying Canberra needs to build closer ties with the future “superpower.”




www.bloomberg.com













Australian PM’s rival wants closer ties with ‘giant’ Indonesia


CANBERRA: Australia’s Labour leader Anthony Albanese has picked Indonesia as one of his first diplomatic visits if he wins Saturday’s (May 21) election and becomes prime minister, saying Canberra needs to build closer ties with the future "superpower".




www.thestar.com.my







https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/asean-business/australian-pms-rival-wants-closer-ties-with-giant-indonesia


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## Indos




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## Indos

Jokowi and Retno Marsudi, Indonesia foreign minister, met with Anthony Albanese before he win Australia election just weeks ago.

This meeting was on 15 February 2020 took place in Australia Parliament Building, Canberra.


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## WotTen

Title is confusing. He is now the Australian PM.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Indos

WotTen said:


> Title is confusing. He is now the Australian PM.



The news was published before the election, now I have edited the title to make it clearer


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## Indos

Australian Prime Minister's Labor Party Gets Parliament Majority​1,191 views
May 30, 2022


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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> Title is confusing. He is now the Australian PM.


I don't trust Albo. Now that he have majority, he is going to drag us down and spend more money. Just hope that there aren't going to be another solar panel scheme that kick them out of Parliament the last time around.


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## WotTen

jhungary said:


> I don't trust Albo. Now that he have majority, he is going to drag us down and spend more money. Just hope that there aren't going to be another solar panel scheme that kick them out of Parliament the last time around.



LOL, TBH I don't pay attention to Australian politics because both parties are the same to me. I just vote Green for my conscience.


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## Indos

COMMENTARY | 
27 MAY 2022​THE USES AND THE LIMITS OF THE QUAD​The Quad prevents China getting its own way all the time. But bilateral relations in the rest of the region are just as important in constraining Beijing. Originally published in the Australian Financial Review.




SUSANNAH PATTON​
*Anthony Albanese did not get to choose his first international visit: the Quad chose him. Scott Morrison, Malcolm Turnbull, Tony Abbott, and Kevin Rudd all chose to visit Indonesia before any other country.*

That had been Albanese’s plan too, until the timing of the Quad summit, informed by the US president’s schedule, made it impossible.

The importance of the first visit is mostly symbolic. Morrison’s legacy on Indonesia is mixed, despite his early visit.

Yet the balance between working in the Quad and working directly with countries in South-East Asia and the Pacific could define the Albanese-Wong foreign policy.

A bipartisan approach to China means the point of departure for Albanese is the same as it was for Morrison: how to constrain China’s growing regional influence and preserve a balance of power in Asia that is favourable to Australia.

The answer Morrison gave was mostly about doubling down on the alliance with the United States, including through AUKUS and the Quad.

It is wrong to argue that the Morrison government “neglected” its relationships with regional countries. But none of these relationships attracted the same level of prime ministerial energy or enthusiasm as the Quad, described by Morrison as the most significant development for Australia’s security since the signing of the ANZUS treaty in 1951.

*An expanded security role for the Quad would be an important way of continuing to surprise China.*

Albanese’s reaffirmation of Australia’s commitment to the Quad in Tokyo struck the right note. The Quad’s most important success is the simple fact of its existence: it helps keep its members on the same page when it comes to challenges in the Indo-Pacific.

For Australia, this means keeping the US as engaged as possible, supporting Japan’s increasingly proactive foreign and security policies, and encouraging greater Indian alignment with US and allied approaches to the Indo-Pacific.

Related to this, the Quad’s mere existence tells China that it will not have things its own way all the time. If judged by its public statements, the Quad greatly perturbs Beijing. Chinese officials regularly rail against “small circles” and bloc confrontation, code for the Quad.

The Quad cuts across one of China’s central objectives in Asia, which is the weakening of US alliances, and forces China to recalculate its expectations about how durable and robust Washington’s partnerships are. An expanded security role for the Quad, as many experts increasingly advocate, would be an important way of continuing to surprise China and show it that the US and its partners are capable of collective responses.

These facts in themselves are hugely important, and alone merit the Quad’s position as a central pillar in Australian foreign policy.

*Delivering ‘public goods’ might not suffice*

Where the Quad’s value becomes more debatable is when it comes to constraining China’s growing influence in the three key subregions of the Indo-Pacific: the Indian Ocean region, South-East Asia and the Pacific.

The initial thinking of Quad members has been that they will together deliver “public goods” such as vaccines or other assistance, thereby showing regional countries that they have options apart from China. The delivery of public goods to a grateful region, as the logic goes, will show that the Quad is constructive and not aimed at further polarising the Indo-Pacific.
As yet, there is no proof that this concept will work. The Quad’s first flagship initiative, to deliver vaccines, has been delayed to the point that it is no longer dealing with a pressing issue. The region is now awash with vaccines; pockets of low immunisation rates are mostly the result of vaccine hesitancy rather than a lack of supply.

Delays with joint projects are no surprise. Delivering even small projects jointly with another country – even one with similar objectives and procedures – is challenging, let alone when it involves four countries as large and different as the Quad members.

The Quad agenda is already unwieldly and set to sprawl further, with the US proposing two new ministerial meetings, of transport and energy ministers.

The major new initiative announced at this week’s Quad was to provide countries in the Indo-Pacific with technology and training to improve their maritime domain awareness by better tracking activity in their own waters with commercial satellite data.

Quad partners likely hope that this initiative will be welcomed by regional countries because it would help them address the impact of illegal fishing, of which China is a key perpetrator.

*Bilateral relationships remain vital*

Even leaving aside the question of delivery, a bigger question remains: whether providing public goods can help the Quad gain influence in regional countries.

First, the Quad must overcome scepticism from regional countries over concerns that by competing with China, the grouping is ramping up regional tensions. Second, the group has no mechanism to deal additional countries into the design or delivery of its programs.

And finally, the Quad is limited by the willingness of regional countries to push back against China. Even if the Quad, for example, shares data on China’s illicit maritime activities with its partners, it can do little if those partners prefer not to act on the information.

In the end, the most important tool for constraining China’s growing regional influence – whether in South-East Asia or the Pacific – is the strength of the individual bilateral relationships that the Quad members have with those countries. Labor’s new Foreign Minister Penny Wong clearly recognises this, given her decision to pay an early visit to Fiji.

Albanese and Wong also have good intentions to refocus on South-East Asia, which is long overdue. They will be charting a new course: engagement with Asia, even as Australia continues to push back against the region’s resident superpower.










The uses and the limits of the Quad


The Quad prevents China getting its own way all the time. But bilateral relations in the rest of the region are just as important in constraining Beijing. Originally published in the Australian Financial Review.




www.lowyinstitute.org


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## WotTen

Indos said:


> THE USES AND THE LIMITS OF THE QUAD​



The problem with the Quad is that, despite all the anti-China rhetoric, Russia sees it as an anti-China-Russia alliance. This gives India pause to join any meaningful security initiatives and, thereby, takes the teeth out of this alliance.

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## Indos




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## Indos

Indonesia and Australia dont have any territorial dispute or even any kind of dispute. This fact is actually the good basis to have a good relation.

People to people relation also need to be nurtured. One of Indonesian basketball player get scholarship in NBA Academy in Australia and he has become the important player during SEAGAMES Hanoi week ago to defeat Philippine and get Gold medal.

Indonesia basketball team will go to Australia and stay there for about a month to have friendly match with about 10 Australian professional basketball teams.






They dont have strong team in the country that can match them and we have to form a team full of import players from our basketball league to have around 5-6 match before the team compete in Seagames


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## Maula Jatt

I wonder why don't they add Indonesia in quad?


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## Indos

Sainthood 101 said:


> I wonder why don't they add Indonesia in quad?



It is because Indonesia has foreign policy that we call as bebas and aktif ( free and active ). This is set up during Soeharto era and we havent changed it.

If you see Indonesia people perception, Indonesians people beside see China as threat, we also see USA as threat. This is also what has been seen in recent survey made by Australia think thank, Lowy Institute. This is basically a logic thinking as the big nation in SEA, basically only USA and China that can potentially harm Indonesia. It is why we still preserve hankamrata doctrine where it is a total war doctrine where civilians are involved and mimic what happen during our independence war with Dutch.

Indonesian Muslim that form 88 percent of Indonesian people has more faith with their Muslim brothers and sisters in Muslim world which is seen in the survey where Saudi Arabia and UAE is regarded as the closes ally based on people mind.

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## Indos

WotTen said:


> The problem with the Quad is that, despite all the anti-China rhetoric, Russia sees it as an anti-China-Russia alliance. This gives India pause to join any meaningful security initiatives and, thereby, takes the teeth out of this alliance.



From my point of view, India entering Quad is because of the heating tension with China in the border Himalayan areas. It is basically just a tit for tat respond, I doubt India has full commitment on the alliance. 

The contested area in SCS is far from India homeland and it is not regarded as their sphere of influence which is limited to South Asia region where they also try to extend it into Central Asia region which is also very close to their territory. 

We will see whether India will allow their new aircraft carrier to have joint patrol in SCS with other Quad members after it is commissioned and has been loaded with fighters. Something that we probably could see after 2025.


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## Indos

New study shows Indonesia's trust in Australia has plummeted | The World​


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## WotTen

Indos said:


> From my point of view, India entering Quad is because of the heating tension with China in the border Himalayan areas. It is basically just a tit for tat respond, I doubt India has full commitment on the alliance.
> 
> The contested area in SCS is far from India homeland and it is not regarded as their sphere of influence which is limited to South Asia region where they also try to extend it into Central Asia region which is also very close to their territory.
> 
> We will see whether India will allow their new aircraft carrier to have joint patrol in SCS with other Quad members after it is commissioned and has been loaded with fighters. Something that we probably could see after 2025.



India is just cashing in on America's obsession with China. Both India and China know that their border issues are not worth a full scale conflict. Both sides do a little border dance occasionally for domestic consumption.

India also knows that the West is pushing Russia and China closer, and India most definitely does NOT want Russia to see India as a Western ally.

India will play the US to extract maximum benefits for itself. Very smart move.

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## Indos

Albanese to travel to Indonesia to improve 'very important relationship'​


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## Han Patriot

WotTen said:


> The problem with the Quad is that, despite all the anti-China rhetoric, Russia sees it as an anti-China-Russia alliance. This gives India pause to join any meaningful security initiatives and, thereby, takes the teeth out of this alliance.


India is mostly an ego issue, they get shoved by us at the borders and hence they have a bruised ego now. They need to stand up to China somehow but they can't abandon Russia. So they are not a reliable partner.


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## Indos

Indonesian Navy ship KRI Krans Kaisiepo, Royal Australian Navy ship HMAS Parramatta, a Royal Australian Air Force Boeing P-8A Poseidon aircraft and an Indonesian Air Force Boeing 737-2X9 Surveiller conduct a cooperative activity during a regional presence deployment.












https://koarmada2.tnial.mil.id/2022/06/01/tni-angkatan-laut-koarmada-ii-bersama-militer-australia-siap-perkuat-keamanan-maritim-kawasan/


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## Indos

Albanese wants to ensure ‘important relationship’ with Indonesia is prioritised​2,338 views
Jun 4, 2022


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## Chat SAMOSA

Indos said:


> It is because Indonesia has foreign policy that we call as bebas and aktif ( free and active ). This is set up during Soeharto era and we havent changed it.
> 
> If you see Indonesia people perception, Indonesians people beside see China as threat, we also see USA as threat. This is also what has been seen in recent survey made by Australia think thank, Lowy Institute. This is basically a logic thinking as the big nation in SEA, basically only USA and China that can potentially harm Indonesia. It is why we still preserve hankamrata doctrine where it is a total war doctrine where civilians are involved and mimic what happen during our independence war with Dutch.
> 
> Indonesian Muslim that form 88 percent of Indonesian people has more faith with their Muslim brothers and sisters in Muslim world which is seen in the survey where Saudi Arabia and UAE is regarded as the closes ally based on people mind.


Why does Indonesia see US as a threat? Is there some history there ?


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## Chat SAMOSA

WotTen said:


> India is just cashing in on America's obsession with China. Both India and China know that their border issues are not worth a full scale conflict. Both sides do a little border dance occasionally for domestic consumption.
> 
> India also knows that the West is pushing Russia and China closer, and India most definitely does NOT want Russia to see India as a Western ally.
> 
> India will play the US to extract maximum benefits for itself. Very smart move.


Covid has changed everything that involves China. Before that everyone was aware that China being factory to the world, US being inventor & designer of things, everyone else working their way to compete for 2nd 3rd or 4th spot in individual fields of science and applications. Japan Russia Israel France UK Genrmany will have their lead in topical areas with poorer pushy nations such as India while jostling to break in , always being dangled a carrot here, an onion there ...India atleast had the consumer market so nobody could ignore; software bpo and other englist-componented outsourcable was/is one rare opportunity that India brilliantly exploited and amplified their economy. Indonesia and Phillipines to some extent joined that category. All other countries were becoming smaller and smaller in significance.

Covid changed all that. US must have local manufacture as well as diversified global supply chain. Vietnam India Japan several European countries, larger Middle Eastern countries etc are all seeing new opportunity and hope.

Once Russia gets rid of Putin, it's going to be a mad scramble for capital all over the world. 

May be I should get back to Wall street.......nah the mangos here are at this stage better draw than more $ !!


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## MH.Yang

When Indonesia becomes a regional power, it will inevitably seize the voice of the South Pacific region. This will also lead to a strategic game between Indonesia and Australia. 

I have always believed that Australia's nuclear submarines were prepared for Indonesia, not China. 
Australia has several nuclear submarines that can only be delivered in 2040, which means nothing to China, but is of great significance to the strategic game in the South Pacific. 2040 should also be the time node when Indonesia has enough strength to challenge Australia.


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> When Indonesia becomes a regional power, it will inevitably seize the voice of the South Pacific region. This will also lead to a strategic game between Indonesia and Australia.
> 
> I have always believed that Australia's nuclear submarines were prepared for Indonesia, not China.
> Australia has several nuclear submarines that can only be delivered in 2040, which means nothing to China, but is of great significance to the strategic game in the South Pacific. 2040 should also be the time node when Indonesia has enough strength to challenge Australia.


That is naïve and borderline stupid way to interpret Australian-Indonesian relationship.

The South pacific is the gateway for US into Asia, specifically US 7th Fleet, which mean Australia nor Indonesia would have control of the area, the US did and that is not going to change in 2040 or beyond, unless US loses Guam or other South Pacific colony.

On the other hand, Indonesia and Australia enjoy a very cordial and supplement relationship. There were never a time beside East Timor when Australia sort of butt head with Indonesia. The problem is, both countries economy survive on each other. It is not at either country best position to antagonise each other. Hence there will not be any challenge unless either Indonesia or Australian expanded into each other territories.

Also, Australia don't need nuclear sub to target Indonesia, nuclear sub is for advance forward deployment, their advantage is going to be significantly lower if you are using it to target the country immediately to your north. There are not too many port in Australia (2 actually, Fleet Base East and Fleet Base West) that can support the sub when they were build, you kind of know where it went if you are talking about intercepting it off Indonesia, the longer the nuclear sub go under the harder for people to detect it, that is the entire point of getting a nuclear sub to begin with....

Stick to your area of Asia and either study some history on other part of the world before you comment.


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> That is naïve and borderline stupid way to interpret Australian-Indonesian relationship.
> 
> The South pacific is the gateway for US into Asia, specifically US 7th Fleet, which mean Australia nor Indonesia would have control of the area, the US did and that is not going to change in 2040 or beyond, unless US loses Guam or other South Pacific colony.
> 
> On the other hand, Indonesia and Australia enjoy a very cordial and supplement relationship. There were never a time beside East Timor when Australia sort of butt head with Indonesia. The problem is, both countries economy survive on each other. It is not at either country best position to antagonise each other. Hence there will not be any challenge unless either Indonesia or Australian expanded into each other territories.
> 
> Also, Australia don't need nuclear sub to target Indonesia, nuclear sub is for advance forward deployment, their advantage is going to be significantly lower if you are using it to target the country immediately to your north. There are not too many port in Australia (2 actually, Fleet Base East and Fleet Base West) that can support the sub when they were build, you kind of know where it went if you are talking about intercepting it off Indonesia, the longer the nuclear sub go under the harder for people to detect it, that is the entire point of getting a nuclear sub to begin with....
> 
> Stick to your area of Asia and either study some history on other part of the world before you comment.


Your theory is based on the premise that Indonesia is still unable to become a regional power in 2040. 

The fact is that the USA and Australia are in continuous decline, most of the energy of the USA is invested in East Asia, and Indonesia is becoming stronger and stronger. It is a historical necessity for Indonesia to claim their legal rights in the South Pacific in 2040. Australia has no ability to stop Indonesia.


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Your theory is based on the premise that Indonesia is still unable to become a regional power in 2040.
> 
> The fact is that the USA and Australia are in continuous decline, most of the energy of the USA is invested in East Asia, and Indonesia is becoming stronger and stronger. It is a historical necessity for Indonesia to claim their legal rights in the South Pacific in 2040. Australia has no ability to stop Indonesia.


I can say the same to you.

Your theory is based on Australia and US being decline to a point they cannot hold the Islands in the South Pacific (Guam, Norfolk, Christmas Island, Northern Marianna). 

On the other hand, you have apparently not a single idea How much Indonesia needed Australia to survive in term of economy and vice versa. Or how the relationship on both country in the past or near future.

As I said, either learn the relationship in South Pacific, or keep your comment on stuff that you know.


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> I can say the same to you.
> 
> Your theory is based on Australia and US being decline to a point they cannot hold the Islands in the South Pacific (Guam, Norfolk, Christmas Island, Northern Marianna).
> 
> On the other hand, you have apparently not a single idea How much Indonesia needed Australia to survive in term of economy and vice versa. Or how the relationship on both country in the past or near future.
> 
> As I said, either learn the relationship in South Pacific, or keep your comment on stuff that you know.


Indonesia needs Australia? In addition to July and August every year, the rich in Indonesia will travel to Australia, Indonesia does not need Australia. 

Both Australia and Indonesia are resource exporting countries, and the main economic structures of the two countries are competitive. As far as I know, Australia is not an important trading partner of Indonesia. Indonesia's largest trading partner is China, followed by ASEAN countries, then Japan and the United States. Australia is not important.


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Indonesia needs Australia? In addition to July and August every year, the rich in Indonesia will travel to Australia, Indonesia does not need Australia.
> 
> Both Australia and Indonesia are resource exporting countries, and the main economic structures of the two countries are competitive. As far as I know, Australia is not an important trading partner of Indonesia. Indonesia's largest trading partner is China, followed by ASEAN countries, then Japan and the United States. Australia is not important.


Again, you don't know shit about what Indonesia need. Indonesia needed Australian alumimum, iron and coal, while Australia need Indonesian Rubber and Tin. Sure, have Indonesia import Aluminium from Guinea or Iron from Russia (The next biggest export in the world after Australia) instead of just south.





__





Indonesia's Top 10 Imports 2021


Indonesia's top imports in 2021 led by petroleum oils, smartphones, gas & wheat plus details by major product categories




www.worldstopexports.com





Number 1 (Specifically Coal and Processed Petroleum Product) and number 4 (Iron, Aluminium) on this list both depending on Australia. In fact 1,4, 8 and 10 all have Australian footprint over them...

Again, go do some research or keep to what you know, which I don't think it's much to begin with.


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Again, you don't know shit about what Indonesia need. Indonesia needed Australian alumimum, iron and coal, while Australia need Indonesian Rubber and Tin. Sure, have Indonesia import Aluminium from Ghana or Iron from Russia (The next biggest export in the world after Australia) instead of just south.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia's Top 10 Imports 2021
> 
> 
> Indonesia's top imports in 2021 led by petroleum oils, smartphones, gas & wheat plus details by major product categories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldstopexports.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Number 1 and number 4 on this list both depending on Australia. In fact 1,4, 8 and 10 all have Australian footprint over them...
> 
> Again, go do some research or keep to what you know, which I don't think it's much to begin with.



You mean that Australia accounts for 4% of Indonesia's foreign trade, so Indonesia will cede the South Pacific to Australia? Or do you mean that Australia is the only exporter of oil and steel? Are you dreaming? 

As for coal and aluminum, they are Indonesian exports, not imports.


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> You mean that Australia accounts for 4% of Indonesia's foreign trade, so Indonesia will cede the South Pacific to Australia? Or do you mean that Australia is the only exporter of oil and steel? Are you dreaming?


Dude, it's not the precentage is the problem, you can import 30% of electronic from China, without that 4% import on Fuel, what are you going to use to generate electricity to power those electronic? Without the Aluminium and Steel, what are you going to use to build with to house those electronic? Wood?

You don't import 60 billions worth of coal from Australia to power your power station, but without that 4 billion coal, are you going to supply people to Indonesia so they can power their city with power pedal??



> As for coal and aluminum, they are Indonesian exports, not imports.



Jesus, you can't read, can't you?



> *Indonesia’s Top Mineral Fuels Imports* and Related Products​In 2021, Indonesian importers spent the most on the following 10 subcategories of mineral fuels-related products.
> 
> Processed petroleum oils: US$14 billion (up 75.3% from 2020)
> Crude oil: $7 billion (up 107.8%)
> Petroleum gases: $4.1 billion (up 58.5%)
> *Coal, solid fuels made from coal*: $2.3 billion (up 152.2%)
> *Coal tar oils (high temperature distillation)*: $570.7 million (up 92.2%)
> Petroleum oil residues: $387.2 million (up 32.6%)
> *Coke, semi-coke: $368.1 million (up 96.5%)*
> Electrical energy: $77.6 million (down -35.3%)
> Petroleum jelly, mineral waxes: $29.6 million (up 34.2%)
> Tar pitch, coke: $16.1 million (up 25.1%)





​



> Indonesia’s Top Iron and Steel Imports


​​​​​


> In 2021, Indonesian importers spent the most on the following 10 subcategories of iron and steel as materials.
> 
> Iron ferroalloys: US$2.6 billion (up 187.5% from 2020)
> Iron or non-alloy steel products (semi-finished): $2.2 billion (up 38.8%)
> Flat-rolled other alloy steel products: $1.4 billion (up 144.1%)
> Flat-rolled iron or non-alloy steel products (plated/coated): $1.1 billion (up 47.3%)
> Hot-rolled iron or non-alloy steel products: $996.9 million (up 45.3%)
> Iron or steel scrap: $721.2 million (up 60.4%)
> Cold-rolled iron or non-alloy steel products: $682.4 million (up 77.2%)
> Alloy steel bars, rods: $395.4 million (up 81.4%)
> Flat-rolled stainless steel items: $360.3 million (up 39.5%)
> Coiled other alloy steel bars, rods: $251.8 million (up 34.2%)



And Indonesia banned Bauxite Export.









Indonesia To Halt Bauxite Exports By End Of 2022 – Aluminium Insider


Indonesian president Joko Widodo said last week that the country will cease its exports of bauxite ore by year’s end and do the same with copper ore by the close of next year. In a bid to increase its downstream economy and its exports of semi-finished and finished products, Indonesia will...




aluminiuminsider.com





Again, try stick to the stuff that you know, and shut up about stuff that you don't know.


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## Indos

Chat SAMOSA said:


> Why does Indonesia see US as a threat? Is there some history there ?



Indonesia opposes US present in Philippine when there was US base in Subic and Clark.

During Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, Indonesia government also oppose US base in Darwin Australia.

Yup there is history in CIA interference when they help RMS rebel and Indonesia military shot a US plane during that time. The invasion of Iraq is also another one that make the worry.

I think that history that make Indonesian is carefull with US, despite Indonesia and USA were hand in hand to combat communism in SEA region during cold war with USSR. Indonesia invasion on East Timor is related to this anti Communist campaign since frerilin at that time had left ideology and this is why US help Indonesia with several planes to smoth the invasion like anti insurgency plane Bronco.

Indonesia also send special force, Kopassus, to Malaysia to defeat Communis rebel in Sarawak (Helping Malaysia armed force ).

That was during Soeharto regime, a complete 90 degree turn if we compare to Soekarno foreign policy.


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Dude, it's not the precentage is the problem, you can import 30% of electronic from China, without that 4% import on Fuel, what are you going to use to generate electricity to power those electronic? Without the Aluminium and Steel, what are you going to use to build with to house those electronic? Wood?
> 
> You don't import 60 billions worth of coal from Australia to power your power station, but without that 4 billion coal, are you going to supply people to Indonesia so they can power their city with power pedal??
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus, you can't read, can't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> ​​​​​
> 
> And Indonesia banned Bauxite Export.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia To Halt Bauxite Exports By End Of 2022 – Aluminium Insider
> 
> 
> Indonesian president Joko Widodo said last week that the country will cease its exports of bauxite ore by year’s end and do the same with copper ore by the close of next year. In a bid to increase its downstream economy and its exports of semi-finished and finished products, Indonesia will...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aluminiuminsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, try stick to the stuff that you know, and shut up about stuff that you don't know.



If Indonesia did not export bauxite before, why does the Indonesian government issue an export ban on bauxite now?

Australia is not the only country that supplies iron and oil, and Indonesia does not depend on your oil and iron. Indonesia imports US $190billion a year, 4% of which comes from Australia, that is, about US $7billion. Indonesia imports US $28.8 billion in oil alone and US $12billion in steel each year. It is clear that Indonesia does not rely on Australia's iron and oil.

If Australians think that they can control Indonesia to give up the South Pacific by just relying on a few billion dollars of trade, I really don't know whether it is stupid or arrogant.



BTW: I remind you that financial institutions now generally predict that Indonesia's GDP will reach US $10trillion in 2040. Ranked fourth in the world. They will be the superpowers of the Muslim world. Australia alone cannot suppress them. On the contrary, Australia will become a member of the South Pacific order dominated by Indonesia.


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> If Indonesia did not export bauxite before, why does the Indonesian government issue an export ban on bauxite now?
> 
> Australia is not the only country that supplies iron and oil, and Indonesia does not depend on your oil and iron. Indonesia imports US $190billion a year, 4% of which comes from Australia, that is, about US $7billion. Indonesia imports US $28.8 billion in oil alone and US $12billion in steel each year. It is clear that Indonesia does not rely on Australia's iron and oil.
> 
> If Australians think that they can control Indonesia to give up the South Pacific by just relying on a few billion dollars of trade, I really don't know whether it is stupid or arrogant.


Dude, we are talking about now, not 6 years ago, in fact, you were talking about 2040, which is 17 years later.

lol, go look at the map and see where else can supplies Indonesia Iron and Coal (Not oil, I never said oil) The closest Iron Ore in that supplies is Russia, and the closest Coal supplies is either China or US. Again, sure, go with China, make it longer and more expensive to import, that is if China have any spare coal to export, China also bought Australian Coal.

Give up what? Australian never ask any people to give up anything, dude, we don't have land dispute with Indonesia, you must be thinking about your own country









Why Is China Pressing Indonesia Again Over Its Maritime Claims?


By reigniting a dispute with Indonesia over control of the Natuna Islands, China appeared to be asserting its expansive territorial claims and challenging Indonesia's newly re-elected president. The move could backfire, though, by undermining Beijing's regional diplomatic goals. China sparked a...




www.worldpoliticsreview.com





Now, I don't really know if you are really stupid or arrogant

@Indos Do we have any island dispute with you? This Chinese member seems to think so....LOL


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Dude, we are talking about now, not 6 years ago, in fact, you were talking about 2040, which is 17 years later.
> 
> lol, go look at the map and see where else can supplies Indonesia Iron and Coal (Not oil, I never said oil) The closest Iron Ore in that supplies is Russia, and the closest Coal supplies is either China or US. Again, sure, go with China, make it longer and more expensive to import, that is if China have any spare coal to export, China also bought Australian Coal.
> 
> Give up what? Australian never ask any people to give up anything, dude, we don't have land dispute with Indonesia, you must be thinking about your own country
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Is China Pressing Indonesia Again Over Its Maritime Claims?
> 
> 
> By reigniting a dispute with Indonesia over control of the Natuna Islands, China appeared to be asserting its expansive territorial claims and challenging Indonesia's newly re-elected president. The move could backfire, though, by undermining Beijing's regional diplomatic goals. China sparked a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpoliticsreview.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I don't really know if you are really stupid or arrogant


I have to remind you that although Indonesia is a country in the South China Sea, there is no territorial dispute between China and Indonesia. China and Indonesia only have a small exclusive economic zone to dispute, which is a very small problem. 

The Indian article you forwarded obviously confused Indonesia and the Philippines. I suggest you confirm my statement directly to the Indonesian members of PDF.


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> I have to remind you that although Indonesia is a country in the South China Sea, there is no territorial dispute between China and Indonesia. China and Indonesia only have a small exclusive economic zone to dispute, which is a very small problem.
> 
> The Indian article you forwarded obviously confused Indonesia and the Philippines. I suggest you confirm my statement directly to the Indonesian members of PDF.



Wow, must be nice living in your dream

First of all, EEZ dispute is land dispute, you cannot have EEZ without Land involved, because EEZ is the extension of land.

Second of all, you do know China have multiple time intrude into Indonesian Territorial Water near Natuna and almost landed an armed conflict in 2020, I would not call that "Small Problem"

And lol, if you don't like World Politics, how about Lowy Institute?





__





Indonesia in the South China Sea: Going it alone


While Indonesia under Jokowi can be expected to continue to take unilateral action to reinforce the Indonesian position around the Natuna Islands, Jokowi has not played an active diplomatic role on the broader South China Sea issue. In the longer term, Indonesia is better off investing in...




www.lowyinstitute.org





or the US based The DIplomat?









China Demanded Halt to Indonesian Drilling Near Natuna Islands: Report


Chinese diplomats claimed that the rig was drilling for oil and gas in “Chinese territory.”



thediplomat.com





On the other hand, Australia don't even have a EEZ dispute with Indonesia. So I am asking you again, What did Indonesia need to give up?


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Dude, we are talking about now, not 6 years ago, in fact, you were talking about 2040, which is 17 years later.
> 
> lol, go look at the map and see where else can supplies Indonesia Iron and Coal (Not oil, I never said oil) The closest Iron Ore in that supplies is Russia, and the closest Coal supplies is either China or US. Again, sure, go with China, make it longer and more expensive to import, that is if China have any spare coal to export, China also bought Australian Coal.
> 
> Give up what? Australian never ask any people to give up anything, dude, we don't have land dispute with Indonesia, you must be thinking about your own country
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Is China Pressing Indonesia Again Over Its Maritime Claims?
> 
> 
> By reigniting a dispute with Indonesia over control of the Natuna Islands, China appeared to be asserting its expansive territorial claims and challenging Indonesia's newly re-elected president. The move could backfire, though, by undermining Beijing's regional diplomatic goals. China sparked a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldpoliticsreview.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I don't really know if you are really stupid or arrogant
> 
> @Indos Do we have any island dispute with you? This Chinese member seems to think so....LOL


Australia and Indonesia do not have territorial disputes, but conflicts of interest between the two countries in the South Pacific region are bound to break out. Does a collision between two countries necessarily require territorial disputes?

Is there a territorial dispute between China and Australia? The contradiction between China and Australia is that the Australians do not want the Chinese to overthrow the Anglo Saxon world order. It has nothing to do with territory.

The same is true of Indonesia. Do you think that when Indonesia has a GDP of 10trillion US dollars, they will still be willing to become a colony of Anglo Saxons?


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Australia and Indonesia do not have territorial disputes, but conflicts of interest between the two countries in the South Pacific region are bound to break out. Does a collision between two countries necessarily require territorial disputes?



What conflict of interest? Dude, we are in the same region, our interest is the same, again, if you don't believe me, ask reputable Indonesian member here and they would have told you the same thing.

Seems to me the only "Conflict of Interest" is the one in your mind you are trying to stir now or in the future.




MH.Yang said:


> Is there a territorial dispute between China and Australia? The contradiction between China and Australia is that the Australians do not want the Chinese to overthrow the Anglo Saxon world order. It has nothing to do with territory.



Australia don't care about China, and this is not about Australia and China



MH.Yang said:


> The same is true of Indonesia. Do you think that when Indonesia has a GDP of 10trillion US dollars, they will* still be *willing to become a *colony of Anglo Saxons*?


@Indos This guys seems to think Indonesia now is the colony of Anglo Saxons.

LOL, you are funny. We are not bossing Indonesia around, nor Indonesia is bossing us around, we exist in the same place, and minding our own business, I know this concept must by alien to Chinese like you, but it was not to us.


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> What conflict of interest? Dude, we are in the same region, our interest is the same, again, if you don't believe me, ask reputable Indonesian member here and they would have told you the same thing.
> 
> Seems to me the only "Conflict of Interest" is the one in your mind you are trying to stir now or in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australia don't care about China, and this is not about Australia and China
> 
> 
> @Indos This guys seems to think Indonesia now is the colony of Anglo Saxons.
> 
> LOL, you are funny. We are not bossing Indonesia around, nor Indonesia is bossing us around, we exist in the same place, and minding our own business, I know this concept must by alien to Chinese like you, but it was not to us.


You know, your current mentality is very familiar to us Chinese people. 

You are like the Japanese in the 1990s. At that time, their view of China was just like your view of Indonesia now. But it is a historical necessity for China to surpass Japan, just as Indonesia surpasses Australia. 

In the future, the South Pacific will be dominated by Indonesia. Indonesia in the future is bound to become a pole in the world.


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> You know, your current mentality is very familiar to us Chinese people.
> 
> You are like the Japanese in the 1990s. At that time, their view of China was just like your view of Indonesia now. But it is a historical necessity for China to surpass Japan, just as Indonesia surpasses Australia.
> 
> In the future, the South Pacific will be dominated by Indonesia. Indonesia in the future is bound to become a pole in the world.


lol, okay,

I mean, I won't stop you from living in your fantasy.......

I can live in my dream world too, why not we have all the Indonesian living in Australia and call them Australian from now on?? We are big enough as a country to have 200 million plus Indonesian to settle within Australia....

Dude, you are crazy, probably need to have your head check...


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## Indos




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