# China Hong Kong SAR: News and Images



## Pakchina

Following fierce competition, the first independently developed diesel locomotives made on the Chinese mainland have been selected by Hong Kong's Mass Transit Railway Corp for use in its world-class transit system. 

China CNR Co announced last week that it has secured an order worth more than 160 million yuan ($25.7 million) from the MTR for 23 diesel locomotives made with its proprietary technologies. 

The designer and builder of the locomotives is a wholly owned CNR subsidiary headquartered in Dalian, Liaoning province. 

According to an announcement from the State-owned railway equipment manufacturer, its CKD0A locomotives ordered by the MTR meet the strictest global emission standards and reduce operational noise to less than 70 decibels, lower than the 78-decibel standard on the Chinese mainland. 

The MTR is considered one of the most successful railway operators in the world with a comprehensive and highly sophisticated network. It is also famous for caution in selecting suppliers, said the CNR statement. 

The announcement also noted that the MTR procurement announcement attracted many well-known locomotive manufacturers, and bidding for the contract was fierce. 

A CNR spokesman said the order shows its CKD0A locomotive has won the recognition it deserves and is also useful as a stepping stone to competing in top international railway markets. 

The manufacturer says the CKD0A meets advanced international standards in fabrication, design, quality control and performance tests. 

It can run at 80 kilometers an hour powered by two electric motors and a diesel engine. The design also provides more interior room by eliminating the need for a gearbox, which also improves the locomotive's reliability. 

The driver's cab has two sets of controllers equipped with computer and cruise control systems. 

The CKD0A locomotive is expected to be used in MTR's rolling stock in addition to subway vehicle rescue. 

The contract calls for the first locomotive to be delivered to MTR by March 2014, followed by a 5,000-kilometer test run. 

The MTR has also ordered high-speed trains valued at 1.36 billion yuan from China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Co Ltd, National Business Daily reported. 

The report said CSR's CRH380A model will be customized to meet MTR requirements and serve on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link expected to enter service in 2015. 

Hong Kong's MTR buys first China-made locomotives (3) - People's Daily Online

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## shuttler

Pakchina said:


> The contract calls for the first locomotive to be delivered to MTR by March 2014, followed by a 5,000-kilometer test run. The MTR has also ordered high-speed trains valued at 1.36 billion yuan from *China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Co Ltd*, National Business Daily reported.
> 
> The report said *CSR's CRH380A* model will be customized to meet MTR requirements and serve on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link expected to enter service in 2015. _haonan@chinadaily.com.cn_



Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong_Kong_Express_Rail_Link













*CRH380A* of *China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Co Ltd*







*CRH2 380A at Shanghai Expo 2010*



> *In service 2010 - Present *
> 
> *Capacity *
> CRH380A: 494
> CRH380AL: 1066[1]
> 
> *Line(s) served *
> Beijing&#8211;Shanghai High-Speed Railway
> Wuhan&#8211;Guangzhou High-Speed Railway
> Shanghai&#8211;Nanjing High-Speed Railway
> Shanghai&#8211;Hangzhou High-Speed Railway
> 
> 
> 
> *Specifications:*
> 
> *Train length *
> CRH380A: 203*m (666*ft)
> CRH380AL: 401.4*m (1,317*ft)
> 
> *Width *
> 3,380*mm (11*ft*1*in)
> 
> * Height* 3,700*mm (12*ft*2*in)
> 
> *Platform height* 1,250*mm (4*ft*1*in)
> 
> *Maximum speed *
> 380*km/h (236*mph)
> (operation) 513*km/h (319*mph) (testing)
> 
> *Traction system* IGBT VVVF inverter
> 
> *control Power output*
> CRH380A: 9.6*MW (12,900*hp)
> CRH380AL: 20.44*MW (27,410 hp)
> 
> *Power supply *
> Overhead catenary
> 
> *Electric system(s)*
> 25*kV 50*Hz AC
> 
> *Current collection method *
> Pantograph
> 
> *Braking system(s) *
> Regenerative, electronically controlled pneumatic brakes
> 
> China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Co Ltd's CRH380A



Live Model Video of CRH380A





Korean said:


> Hong Kong should have consulted Pakistani railway companies before making that decision.



keep that jealousy down! your homeland india wont come up anything near this technology in 30 years

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## shuttler

*China's railway manufacturing corporations have a very well proven history of supporting the world class mass transit system of HK:*

22 nos of these cars were supplied to the *HK Light Rail* in 2009:


















*China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Co Ltd &#8216;s electric trains operating in HK*

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## shuttler

*MTR C-Stock EMU C6554-07E manufactured by China North Railway Corp - started serving HKMTR since 2011 * 

*Total no in operation&#65306;17 trains with 8 carriages and 10 trains with 3 carriages* 

HK MTR_CNR_EMU











Emergency Exit at the front of the car











HK MTR - China North Railway Corporation

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## cirr

Hong Kong also bought these CRH380ALs&#65306;






for HSR between HK and SZ that's scheduled to open in 2014&#12290;

Hong Kong to Beijing in less than 9 hours&#12290;

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## shuttler

Pakchina said:


> Following fierce competition, the first independently developed diesel locomotives made on the Chinese mainland have been selected by Hong Kong's Mass Transit Railway Corp for use in its world-class transit system.
> 
> *China CNR Co announced last week that it has secured an order worth more than 160 million yuan ($25.7 million) from the MTR for 23 diesel locomotives made with its proprietary technologies. *
> 
> The designer and builder of the locomotives is a wholly owned CNR subsidiary headquartered in Dalian, Liaoning province.
> 
> According to an announcement from the State-owned railway equipment manufacturer, its *CKD0A locomotives *ordered by the MTR meet the strictest global emission standards and reduce operational noise to less than 70 decibels, lower than the 78-decibel standard on the Chinese mainland.
> 
> .....
> 
> The manufacturer says the *CKD0A meets advanced international standards in fabrication, design, quality control and performance tests.
> *
> It can run at 80 kilometers an hour powered by two electric motors and a diesel engine. The design also provides more interior room by eliminating the need for a gearbox, which also improves the locomotive's reliability.
> 
> The driver's cab has two sets of controllers equipped with computer and cruise control systems.
> 
> The CKD0A locomotive is expected to be used in MTR's rolling stock in addition to subway vehicle rescue.
> 
> The contract calls for the first locomotive to be delivered to MTR by March 2014, followed by a 5,000-kilometer test run.
> 
> Hong Kong's MTR buys first China-made locomotives (3) - People's Daily Online




*23 diesel locomotives model CKD0A made with its proprietary technologies by CNR Dalian Locomotive & Rolling Stock Co.*

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## shuttler

*Other China-made trains for HK in the past * 

*CSR Yangtze Co Ltd* 








*CSR Zhuzhou Electric Locomotive Co. Ltfd.* 








> * 2012/08/15 &#20013;&#22269;&#21335;&#36710;&#20379;&#32473;&#39321;&#28207;&#22320;&#38081;4&#21488;&#21452;&#33021;&#28304;&#24037;&#31243;&#36710;
> 
> CNS-CSR-ZELC supplies 4 Backup Vehicles (BAV) to HK MTR
> 
> According to relevant materials, CSR ZELC&#8217;s tender for BAVs, which have a maximum speed of 65 kilometers per hour and a minimum speed of 2 kilometers per hour. Various noise reduction measures are taken to keep level of noise no more than 70 decibels.
> 
> Regenerative braking technology transfers braking energy to electric energy for a second use In accordance with estimates by experts, a BAV with life cycle of 30 years has less carbon emission about 2100 ton than similar fuel oil engineering vehicle.
> 
> Xu Zongxiang, executive director and general manager of CSR ZELC presented that CSR ZELC initiated green and intelligent concept for products development.
> 
> As an originated place and leader of electric traction technology of China railway transit, CSR ZELC has developed and manufactured medium/low-speed maglev train and BAV, and is developing and manufacturing 100% low-floor trams and energy storage electric traction light rail vehicle. CSR ZELC provides various choices for urban green, low-carbon and environmental protection rail transportation. *

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## terranMarine

Some amazing developments with environmental factors consideration.

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## Chinese-Dragon

cirr said:


> for HSR between HK and SZ that's scheduled to open in 2014&#12290;
> 
> Hong Kong to Beijing in less than 9 hours&#12290;



That is awesome.  I love Beijing, one of my favourite cities in the whole world.

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## Fanling Monk

*IMF warns Hong Kong properties face price correction*








HONG KONG: The International Monetary Fund has warned that Hong Kong could see an abrupt fall in property prices after years of dramatic increases in one of the world's most expensive housing markets.

Home prices in the Asian financial hub have skyrocketed 90 percent since 2009 due to an influx of wealthy mainland Chinese buyers, pushing home-ownership beyond the reach of many of its seven million people.

"The sharp run-up in house prices raises the risk of an abrupt correction," the IMF said in its annual review of Hong Kong's economy.

"A sharp price correction would lead to falling collateral values and negative wealth effects, which could trigger an adverse feedback loop between economy activity, bank lending, and the property market.

*"The property sector is the main source of domestic economic risk,"* the Washington-based organisation said.

It however said the chances of a price correction that is large enough to generate a major macroeconomic and financial consequences is "fairly low in the near term".

It also said the city's government recent bid to slap new taxes on residential properties "should help dampen housing demand" but urged Hong Kong to ensure sufficient supply in order to boost home affordability.

Hong Kong announced a 15-percent stamp duty on non-permanent residents and corporate buyers as well as a higher stamp duty on the resale of property within three years in late October in an attempt to rein in soaring prices.

With the global economic weakness continuing to impact domestic economy, the IMF said it expects Hong Kong's economy to grow 1.25 percent this year, before rebounding to 3 percent next year.

Hong Kong leader Leung Chun-ying had warned last week that the city needed to boost its housing supply and create more living space or risked losing its "best and the brightest" talents.

IMF warns Hong Kong properties face price correction - Channel NewsAsia


I would suggest small buyers hold off their buying for the mean time. This new tax will inadvertently benefit residents who are in need for a home.


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## shuttler

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That is awesome.  I love Beijing, one of my favourite cities in the whole world.





Fanling Monk said:


> *IMF warns Hong Kong properties face price correction*
> 
> IMF warns Hong Kong properties face price correction - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> 
> I would suggest small buyers hold off their buying for the mean time. This new tax will inadvertently benefit residents who are in need for a home.



with the fast advance of the transportation system of the Mainland and HK, it greatly enhances the easy and comfort of mobility of the people who commute regularly for business, work, residence and social gathering. I hope this would ease a bit albeit very very gradually of the pressure of housing in highly populated cities like Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Hongkong

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## Fanling Monk

*No signs corruption becoming more rampant in HK: advisory committees*








HONG KONG: The advisory committees that oversee Hong Kong's anti-graft body, the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), have said that there are no signs corruption is becoming more rampant in the territory.

In the first 11 months of 2012, the number of complaints received by the ICAC went up by only 2 per cent.

The territory, however, experienced a number of high profile corruption cases this year.

The ICAC had received complaints about former Chief Executive Donald Tsang, who admitted to receiving trips on private planes and yachts.

Billionaire brothers Raymond and Thomas Kwok were also arrested in March on bribery charges

"The fact that these cases were being investigated and charged shows that our system is at work," said Laura Cha, Chairwoman of the Advisory Committee on Corruption.

"In the short-term, yes, it affected our image. But it is an indication and vindication of how the ICAC's work is taken seriously," she added.

The ICAC was a turning point for corruption in Hong Kong in the 1970s, where it helped the territory emerge from the control of organised crime. Hong Kong currently enjoys a reputation for being one of the cleanest places to do business in.

Hong Kong however dropped two places in Transparency International's 2012 Corruption Perception Index.

It is now ranked 14th in the world, its worst showing since 2007.

The review committee also highlighted a rise in the number of cases relating to the financial sector; complaints relating to the financial sector rose 14 per cent this year.

Mainland companies listed in Hong Kong were singled out as culprits.

"Listed companies try to siphon money through bogus acquisitions and other financial schemes. It's an area where the stock exchange and the SFC (Securities and Futures Commission) have a lot of input, and it's also an area where the investigations are time consuming," said Michael Sze, Chairman of the Operations Review Committee.

No signs corruption becoming more rampant in HK: advisory committees - Channel NewsAsia

..............


*Jackie Chan suggests protests in his native city should be restricted*







Jackie Chan criticism sparks Hong Kong fight-back - Channel NewsAsia


I agree, people in Hong Kong should realize the city is a Chinese city, nothing more and nothing less, and should work toward the benefits of the city and the country. We are Chinese people and citizens and let us not be divided by some fancy ideas from some foreigners put to us. If we want changes we must seek changes from within with the intentions of unity of the country and the people.

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## shuttler

Fanling Monk said:


> *No signs corruption becoming more rampant in HK: advisory committees[/
> 
> 
> Hong Kong however dropped two places in Transparency International's 2012 Corruption Perception Index.
> 
> It is now ranked 14th in the world, its worst showing since 2007.
> 
> The review committee also highlighted a rise in the number of cases relating to the financial sector; complaints relating to the financial sector rose 14 per cent this year.
> 
> No signs corruption becoming more rampant in HK: advisory committees - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> ..............
> 
> 
> Jackie Chan suggests protests in his native city should be restricted
> 
> Jackie Chan criticism sparks Hong Kong fight-back - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> 
> I agree, people in Hong Kong should realize the city is a Chinese city, nothing more and nothing less, and should work toward the benefits of the city and the country. We are Chinese people and citizens and let us not be divided by some fancy ideas from some foreigners put to us. If we want changes we must seek changes from within with the intentions of unity of the country and the people.*


*


I think you may consider starting a thread on these matters!

The monitoring bodies are key for overseeing these irregularities

I bet you have heard about HSBC and Standard Chartered being heavily fined for their "money laundering" transactions and also about the bizzare manipulation of the LIBOR in UK*

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## dreamer53320

> *Jackie Chan suggests protests in his native city should be restricted*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackie Chan criticism sparks Hong Kong fight-back - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> 
> I agree, people in Hong Kong should realize the city is a Chinese city, nothing more and nothing less, and should work toward the benefits of the city and the country. We are Chinese people and citizens and let us not be divided by some fancy ideas from some foreigners put to us. If we want changes we must seek changes from within with the intentions of unity of the country and the people.



I agree, &#21578;&#27915;&#29376;is becoming too prevalent and meaningless.

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## Fanling Monk

shuttler said:


> I think you may consider starting a thread on these matters!




It's a good idea but I don't think Mr Hu likes too many threads on one location. Besides a new thread will definite invites trolls, from you know where, to come in to enjoy themselves. Let's try to use this thread for all HK news and updates for the meantime and see what happen.

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## lunnn

cirr said:


> Hong Kong also bought these CRH380ALs&#65306;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for HSR between HK and SZ that's scheduled to open in 2014&#12290;
> 
> Hong Kong to Beijing in less than 9 hours&#12290;



It shall be scheduled to open in 2016 instead.



Fanling Monk said:


> *No signs corruption becoming more rampant in HK: advisory committees*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HONG KONG: The advisory committees that oversee Hong Kong's anti-graft body, the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), have said that there are no signs corruption is becoming more rampant in the territory.
> 
> In the first 11 months of 2012, the number of complaints received by the ICAC went up by only 2 per cent.
> 
> The territory, however, experienced a number of high profile corruption cases this year.
> 
> The ICAC had received complaints about former Chief Executive Donald Tsang, who admitted to receiving trips on private planes and yachts.
> 
> Billionaire brothers Raymond and Thomas Kwok were also arrested in March on bribery charges
> 
> "The fact that these cases were being investigated and charged shows that our system is at work," said Laura Cha, Chairwoman of the Advisory Committee on Corruption.
> 
> "In the short-term, yes, it affected our image. But it is an indication and vindication of how the ICAC's work is taken seriously," she added.
> 
> The ICAC was a turning point for corruption in Hong Kong in the 1970s, where it helped the territory emerge from the control of organised crime. Hong Kong currently enjoys a reputation for being one of the cleanest places to do business in.
> 
> Hong Kong however dropped two places in Transparency International's 2012 Corruption Perception Index.
> 
> It is now ranked 14th in the world, its worst showing since 2007.
> 
> The review committee also highlighted a rise in the number of cases relating to the financial sector; complaints relating to the financial sector rose 14 per cent this year.
> 
> Mainland companies listed in Hong Kong were singled out as culprits.
> 
> "Listed companies try to siphon money through bogus acquisitions and other financial schemes. It's an area where the stock exchange and the SFC (Securities and Futures Commission) have a lot of input, and it's also an area where the investigations are time consuming," said Michael Sze, Chairman of the Operations Review Committee.
> 
> No signs corruption becoming more rampant in HK: advisory committees - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> ..............
> 
> 
> *Jackie Chan suggests protests in his native city should be restricted*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackie Chan criticism sparks Hong Kong fight-back - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> 
> I agree, people in Hong Kong should realize the city is a Chinese city, nothing more and nothing less, and should work toward the benefits of the city and the country. We are Chinese people and citizens and let us not be divided by some fancy ideas from some foreigners put to us. If we want changes we must seek changes from within with the intentions of unity of the country and the people.



Jackie Chan is outdated in Hongkong and nobody take him seriously.


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## cirr

lunnn said:


> It shall be scheduled to open in 2016 instead.
> 
> Jackie Chan is outdated in Hongkong and nobody take him seriously.



Hong Kong should take a leaf out of Singapore&#8216;s book&#12290;


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## Snomannen

As long as it is safe and run by professional workers.


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## cirr

KirovAirship said:


> As long as it is safe and run by professional workers.



China Wins Railroad Safety Record Many Times Over - Topix

Do a thorough Google search and you will find that China rail safety records are among the highest in the world&#12290;


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## cirr

10.12.2012 West Kowloon terminus construction






Futian Station to be finished in July 2014 

FUTIAN Station on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail line will be completed in July 2014, officials said. 

The station will be the largest underground station in China when completed. It will take about 14 minutes to travel from Futian to Kowloon in Hong Kong when the line opens in 2015. 

Futian Station is part of Futian Transport Hub, which will also offer Metro, bus and taxi services. 

In another development, the Shenzhen section of Shenzhen-Xiamen Railway has completed construction equivalent to 80 percent of investment and is expected to open at the end of 2013.


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## Donation

Dandpatta said:


> To those who say the Chinese have copied - (and hell they do a damn good job on it), can we also go back in history and look at the number of fighter a/c of the 1st / 2nd WW that all looked similar ? We had US/Brit/Germ/Jap fighters that had a similar silhouette - if not copied.


What is your opinion on independence movement in Honk Kong??? Have you notice the Hong Kong resident refer China mainlander as lucust??? Do you think military action has to take place by the CCP to stop the movement???

 @Dandpatta


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## Dandpatta

The independence movement in HK is nothing but a wet dream woven by pan-democrats. There is no way HK can survive on its own as an 'independent'. Besides, since 1997, majority of the population in HK has come to terms with China and the mainland Chinese investment in HK. And what will HK depend on? Inflated property prices and the huge tax income that comes from commerical deals pertaining to the bubble of astronomical real estate? Will it survive on its corrupt govt insider-dealers? 

Now your question about military action ! If you take military action against a hypothetical scenario of pro independence movement, it will be the very first death-knell for China. Yes you can show your military power to the world in putting down rebellions but for that to happen in a place like HK would blunt your respect (whatever it is) that you as a nation has garnered in the world so far.

And mind you - HK pro independence movement is pretty peaceful. No incidences of violence have been reported and no one has been killed so far on either side of the fence. So the wet dream of sending military action is - trust me - death of China's self respect. You don't kill your own people for voice of dissent.

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## Donation

Do you live in Hong Kong so that you are opposing a military action??? Don't worry, Chinese has a tradition of "foreigner first" policy, foreigner wont be harm in any case including a potential military action against Hong Kong resident,

China did not earn any respect from the world by far, the world has long label China/ Chinese as dog eater, communist, human right abuse, nature of copying, looks ugly, cheap labors, unreliable made in China, easy Chinese girls, therefore, China barely lost any reputation by launch a strategic bombing against Hong Kong, because thats what China does not has much at the beginning.

its not mainland China love the Hong Kong resident that much to let them sustain a different political system, Hong Kong is actually a showcase for Taiwan people in order to convince the Taiwan people reunification with mainland China peacefully is nothing but life would get nicer since the economic benefits and also very little political changes, they could enjoy freedom of speech, election as they always enjoy before,

It seems that it does not work, even a place like Hong Kong, a city with no history, with all the China stock to boost their finance industry, they hate mainland China that much, not to mention a place like Taiwan, relatively rich in culture and history, frankly, I have lost all faith in peacefully reunification with Taiwan consider the current situation in Hong Kong, I dont know what the next step the top CCP official would take, but personally, Im pro a full scale war, there is no choice.

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## Ayush

Donation said:


> Do you live in Hong Kong so that you are opposing a military action??? Don't worry, Chinese has a tradition of "foreigner first" policy, foreigner wont be harm in any case including a potential military action against Hong Kong resident,
> 
> China did not earn any respect from the world by far, the world has long label China/ Chinese as dog eater, communist, human right abuse, nature of copying, looks ugly, cheap labors, unreliable made in China, easy Chinese girls, therefore, China barely lost any reputation by launch a strategic bombing against Hong Kong, because thats what China does not has much at the beginning.
> 
> its not mainland China love the Hong Kong resident that much to let them sustain a different political system, Hong Kong is actually a showcase for Taiwan people in order to convince the Taiwan people reunification with mainland China peacefully is nothing but life would get nicer since the economic benefits and also very little political changes, they could enjoy freedom of speech, election as they always enjoy before,
> 
> It seems that it does not work, even a place like Hong Kong, a city with no history, with all the China stock to boost their finance industry, they hate mainland China that much, not to mention a place like Taiwan, relatively rich in culture and history, frankly, I have lost all faith in peacefully reunification with Taiwan consider the current situation in Hong Kong, I dont know what the next step the top CCP official would take, but personally, Im pro a full scale war, there is no choice.



So you support an all out war for reclaiming every disputed territory?


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## Donation

depends on how I define disputed territory, do you know Mongolia were China territory before 1926 and Vladivostok belongs to China before 1870??? Would I support a suicidal attack on super nuclear power Russia from China to try to take these place back??? of course not. if speaking of south China sea engaging those south east asian countries, a little bit bullets is not a bad idea. but i am not CCP official, its just my own opinion, and its play no role in the actual policy making by the CCP.


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## Ayush

Donation said:


> depends on how I define disputed territory, do you know Mongolia were China territory before 1926 and Vladivostok belongs to China before 1870??? Would I support a suicidal attack on super nuclear power Russia from China to try to take these place back??? of course not. if speaking of south China sea engaging those south east asian countries, a little bit bullets is not a bad idea. but i am not CCP official, its just my own opinion, and its play no role in the actual policy making by the CCP.



What about arunachal pradesh and the disputed islands with japan?

And ya, I know that.


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## Donation

Japan, no, the US and Japan are allies, also many Chinese earn living in Japan, India, no for now, need China mid course interceptor deployed, till then peace.


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## Princess

well, there are new problems for HK citizens after 1997, for example:

milk powder shortage / too many mainland visitors & property buyers ... but anyway, not serious

basically, many businessmen there are quite greed ...

they want sell high-priced high-quality goods to mainland customers for higher margin 

sometimes, that's some sort of artificial shortages - bad for local citizens


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## Ayush

Donation said:


> Japan, no, the US and Japan are allies, also many Chinese earn living in Japan, India, no for now, need China mid course interceptor deployed, till then peace.



And after it is deployed?


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## WAR-rior

Ayush said:


> And after it is deployed?



India will come up with some other detterent.  matlab, kuchh nahin ukhadna kisise.

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## Ayush

WAR-rior said:


> India will come up with some other detterent.  matlab, kuchh nahin ukhadna kisise.



I know, but I just want to know his opinion.


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## Dandpatta

Donation - your replies and what you have written, lays bare your maturity. I am henceforth off this thread as I have given you my reply and I shall leave it at that. I would prefer you ask the same question to gentlemen like @ Wanglaokan


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## Audio

> *Baby Hunger Outbreak in Hong Kong, International Aid Requested*
> Local parents in Hong Kong can hardly buy baby formula milk powder in drugstores and supermarkets, as smugglers from mainland China storm to this tiny city to buy milk powder and resell for huge profits in China. Many retailers stockpiled milk powder and are reluctant to sell to local parents as the shops can sell their stocks in big cartons to mainland smuggler for huge profits. Countries like Germany, the Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand exercise rationed sale to tourist buyers from China for milk powder but the Hong Kong government simply frame the situation as a matter of free trade and refuse to exercise law which is already there to stop cross-border smuggling. We request for international support and assistance as babies in Hong Kong will face malnutrition very soon.



https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/baby-hunger-outbreak-hong-kong-international-aid-requested/xVSGJNN1

evil propaganda or?


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## tranquilium

...Why the hell is military even in this discussion? Forgetting about the fact the supposed "independent" is pretty much all bark and no bite. How exactly are those idiot suppose to get past the police force? The military is only gonna be used if there is actually a credible threat.


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## jhungary

The moment you command Military Force in Hong Kong, that would be the exact moment you let those Independentist get their way. The exactly moment you did that, regardless of casualty, China will lose Hong Kong forever and the world will support the Independent Movement. So think about it, is it the way you Mainland Chinese want??

About name calling. yes, Hong Kong People called Mainlander Locust but so do the Mainlander say Hong Kong people are dog. The problem is, HK is still a free city, whatever you do are under watchful eyes and China need to know exactly what they should do and when did they do it. Otherwise the world are judging. Unlike City in Mainland China, you can send a tank battalion in and nobody would get wise. If you send a Tank battalion in HK for whatever reason, the world are going to read about it on the news tomorrow.

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## northeast

jhungary said:


> The moment you command Military Force in Hong Kong, that would be the exact moment you let those Independentist get their way. The exactly moment you did that, regardless of casualty, China will lose Hong Kong forever and the world will support the Independent Movement. So think about it, is it the way you Mainland Chinese want??
> 
> About name calling. yes, Hong Kong People called Mainlander Locust but so do the Mainlander say Hong Kong people are dog. The problem is, HK is still a free city, whatever you do are under watchful eyes and China need to know exactly what they should do and when did they do it. Otherwise the world are judging. Unlike City in Mainland China, you can send a tank battalion in and nobody would get wise. If you send a Tank battalion in HK for whatever reason, the world are going to read about it on the news tomorrow.



Good luck to your wet dream&#65292;lol.Hongkong people didn't even dared to fight with the british colonists&#65292;how could they fight against the monsterous CCP war machine&#65311;And fight for what&#65311; for your china haters' wet dream&#65311;

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## jhungary

northeast said:


> Good luck to your wet dream&#65292;lol.Hongkong people didn't even dared to fight with the british colonists&#65292;how could they fight against the monsterous CCP war machine&#65311;And fight for what&#65311; for your china haters' wet dream&#65311;



dude, occupy Hong Kong for all i care, i don't live there anymore.

I do not take side on independent issue, but everyone, even your countrymen will tell you, using Military action on HK are simply dumb. This is what i said, how do you interpret it related to Independent Movenment is not my business

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## northeast

jhungary said:


> dude, occupy Hong Kong for all i care, i don't live there anymore.
> 
> I do not take side on independent issue, but everyone, even your countrymen will tell you, using Military action on HK are simply dumb. This is what i said, how do you interpret it related to Independent Movenment is not my business



Occupying Hongkong&#65311;what are you talking about&#65311;There are already many PLA soldiers staying in hongkong since 1997.Stupid china hater.

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## PITA

If you use the military to stop the independence movement, how would you know when you won or lost? At what point can you say, "Our job is done and we can go home." It's a very simple yet crucial question. 

If you start to round people up and put them in jail, there will be consequences and one of those is that their movement will grow out of control. If that happens, you are committed and it'll be impossible to get out of of. That is a very likely scenario that can slowly lead to an unmanageable disaster. If you pull out early, it will be a sign or weakness. Using the military should always be the last thing precisely because of that commitment. That's why it's impractical for that situation.

To win over people, you must have moral influence and give them options that will benefit them personally. 

Just my thoughts...


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## jhungary

northeast said:


> Occupying Hongkong&#65311;what are you talking about&#65311;There are already many PLA soldiers staying in hongkong since 1997.Stupid china hater.



Dude, Military stationing in Hong Kong does not equal to Military Occupation.....
You have your own troop station in China but did the Military Call the shot in China? And can we say China is under miltiary occupation??

You are really funny.

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## jhungary

PITA said:


> If you use the military to stop the independence movement, how would you know when you won or lost? At what point can you say, "Our job is done and we can go home." It's a very simple yet crucial question.
> 
> If you start to round people up and put them in jail, there will be consequences and one of those is that their movement will grow out of control. If that happens, you are committed and it'll be impossible to get out of of. That is a very likely scenario that can slowly lead to an unmanageable disaster. If you pull out early, it will be a sign or weakness. Using the military should always be the last thing precisely because of that commitment. That's why it's impractical for that situation.
> 
> To win over people, you must have moral influence and give them options that will benefit them personally.
> 
> Just my thoughts...



The job of the Miltiary is to defence, or in some case attack. This is not a job to maintain order for a place.

I like the analogy said in the movie "the seige" 

"The military is a boardsword, it can cut off anything that big enough, but the Military is not a scalpel, which cannot handle delicate situation. It will not be a pretty picture when you see soldier with assault rifle stand guard on your local train station and your local 7-11."

It's all about image. Again, unlike mainland China, what you do in HK will probably got string up tomorrow by any major news power in the world, HK is under international media scrutiny. You cannot get away with doing absolutely anything. So in the end. The consideration of using military force should be set to minimum. If not totally forbidden.


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## RIMPAC

jhungary said:


> The moment you command Military Force in Hong Kong, that would be the exact moment you let those Independentist get their way. The exactly moment you did that, regardless of casualty, China will lose Hong Kong forever and the world will support the Independent Movement. So think about it, is it the way you Mainland Chinese want??
> 
> About name calling. yes, Hong Kong People called Mainlander Locust but so do the Mainlander say Hong Kong people are dog. The problem is, HK is still a free city, whatever you do are under watchful eyes and China need to know exactly what they should do and when did they do it. Otherwise the world are judging. Unlike City in Mainland China, you can send a tank battalion in and nobody would get wise. If you send a Tank battalion in HK for whatever reason, the world are going to read about it on the news tomorrow.



The world wouldn't know it if we cut off all communications in Hong Kong and arrested all the journalists.
If the CPC hardliners get into power, Hong Kong won't be able to talk smack to the mainland.
I'm in favour of removing the 50 year no interference policy we signed with the British.
Who is going to enforce that? US military going to stop us? Put economic sanctions on us?
Lets see them try.

The fact is China can say that document is null and void anytime we want.
In in favour of this btw.

I don't like when Hong Kongers wave the colonial flag and trash talk mainlanders and the mainland. I would get a lot tougher on Hong Kong if I was in charge.


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## jhungary

RIMPAC said:


> The world wouldn't know it if we cut off all communications in Hong Kong and arrested all the journalists.
> If the CPC hardliners get into power, Hong Kong won't be able to talk smack to the mainland.
> I'm in favour of removing the 50 year no interference policy we signed with the British.
> Who is going to enforce that? US military going to stop us? Put economic sanctions on us?
> Lets see them try.
> 
> The fact is China can say that document is null and void anytime we want.
> In in favour of this btw.
> 
> I don't like when Hong Kongers wave the colonial flag and trash talk mainlanders and the mainland. I would get a lot tougher on Hong Kong if I was in charge.



Again, whatever you want to do to please you, i don't really care as i don't live in Hong Kong Anymore.

Go ahead, try

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## Snomannen

I'm sick of those who always claim to nuke the hell out of HongKong and Taiwan, you people really need to see a doctor.

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## cirr

One of the daily stories to sustain the ill-wishers&#12290;


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## conworldus

Seriously there are some real idiots in this thread. Hong Kong is doing fine. We are still number1 in economic freedom. We still enjoy low tax and efficient governance. 

Idiots who want to attack us should either go to a mental institute or countries like Somalia, India, etc

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## Akasa

Donation said:


> 1. Remove all H shares (China stock issued in Hong Kong) by turning all of it into A share
> 2. Remove CEPA (Mainland and Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement)
> 3. Stationary force in Hong Kong move to Guangzhou
> 4. 42nd Group Army move to the border, but not enter
> 5. 170, 171 Luyang II-Class DDG move to the border, but not enter
> 6. 43rd Airborne Division take over Chep Lap Kok airport
> 7. Lock all seaport, airport, groundport in Hong Kong by the above forces
> 8. Tell all immigrate from mainland to move back
> 9. Deport all foreigners
> 10. Distribute foreign made weapons to the Hong Kong residents
> 11. CCP officially announced there are rebels in Hong Kong
> 12. Position 10 thousands sets of Self-propelled guns and Multiple Rocket Launcher including PLZ-05 PLZ-07 PHL-03 WS-2 in Guangzhou
> 13. Fire it all to the densely populated area in Hong Kong for 96 hours
> 14. 42nd Group Army cross the border and shoot anything that moves
> 15. CCP officially announced Mission Accomplished, saying the well equipped and the well trained troops of Hong Kong Interdependent Movement is the major reason that makes PLA deploy such firepower, CCP does not meant to such human life loss, Marking the day as National day of mourning for the innocent Hong Kong resident.
> 16. There will be no independent movement anymore because there is no Hong Kong resident alive.



You sound like General Falkenhayn. But he's dead and you're not a general, so please refrain from any hurtful comments like these.


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## RIMPAC

conworldus said:


> Seriously there are some real idiots in this thread. Hong Kong is doing fine. We are still number1 in economic freedom. We still enjoy low tax and efficient governance.
> 
> Idiots who want to attack us should either go to a mental institute or countries like Somalia, India, etc



Hong Kong authorities should arrest all anti-mainland people and send them to labour camps.
Hong Kongers think they are some big shot but they depend on the mainland for 100% of their economic prosperity and security.
We can send our PLA soldiers into Hong Kong and arrest all colonial flag waving anti-mainlanders and bring them back to the mainland and send them all to labour camps until they learn to kiss our a$$e$.

There is not a damn thing Hong Kongers can do about that if CPC hardliners think we should do that. 
We are judge, jury and executioner of Hong Kong.
Don't you ever forget it.
We own Hong Kong.

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## conworldus

RIMPAC said:


> Hong Kong authorities should arrest all anti-mainland people and send them to labour camps.
> Hong Kongers think they are some big shot but they depend on the mainland for 100% of their economic prosperity and security.
> We can send our PLA soldiers into Hong Kong and arrest all colonial flag waving anti-mainlanders and bring them back to the mainland and send them all to labour camps until they learn to kiss our a$$e$.
> 
> There is not a damn thing Hong Kongers can do about that if CPC hardliners think we should do that.
> We are judge, jury and executioner of Hong Kong.
> Don't you ever forget it.
> We own Hong Kong.



dont know what you mean by we, but YOU sir cannot come to hong kong without a visa.

Hong Kong law guarantees freedom of speech, and none shall be persecuted for expressing a view that does not directly causes harm to other persons.

If you have problem with colonial flag wavers, please file your lawsuit like a civilized human instead of ranting like a maniac.

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## Dandpatta

Just browsed through the thread... interesting to note fellow Chinese wanting ill will against their own kinds in a Special Administrative Region. Nuke...bomb.... ... Even the Somalis are better off in knowing what's better. But some nuts on this thread obviously fed with noodles of over-nationalistic sentiment will stop at nothing to show their disdain to the HKers.

And about milk powder shortage - it's not just that. Every other essential commodity that common HKers need is pretty much off the shelf especially during the Chinese New Year, thanks to the huge influx of mainlanders who come to HK through Lo Wu / Lok Ma Chau and create a parallel economy of sorts. Years back, it was Mainland Chinese mothers were taking maternal wards of HK and putting the natal care departments of all HK hospitals under stress. HK mothers were given less priority thanks to the brash and oft foolishly assertive nature of the mainlander Chinese parents who came to HK to give birth to their new borns. It was often heard in hospitals " WE ARE PAYING YOU THE MONEY, HK SURVIVES ON OUR MONEY.. SO YOU BETTER BE NICE TO US". Quite often, they forgot *who should have been nicer in the first place*. 

What bites HKers the most is not even the CCP propoganda but yes , the HK Chinese rightly so, have every right to rebuff stupid comments coming from some nut cases who say "Nuke HK ". Guess you young Chinese nationalists have forgotten how painful war is . Nanjing anyone? What they (HKers) don't want is some diarrhea of brashness .


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## longyi

Some comments are very embarrassing to say the least. It makes one wonder where the heck has Confucius philosophy went?

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## Plexyre

For the internet warriors talking about nuking HK, well how about putting some of that enthusiasm into addressing the root of the social conflicts between HK and the mainland instead of acting like loose cannons? Just a thought 

It's not like the independence movement will get anywhere anyway, unless the CPC does something stupid first, so all this talk about independence and military action is hot air

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## Donation

Dandpatta said:


> Just browsed through the thread... interesting to note fellow Chinese wanting ill will against their own kinds in a Special Administrative Region. Nuke...bomb.... ... Even the Somalis are better off in knowing what's better. But some nuts on this thread obviously fed with noodles of over-nationalistic sentiment will stop at nothing to show their disdain to the HKers.
> 
> And about milk powder shortage - it's not just that. Every other essential commodity that common HKers need is pretty much off the shelf especially during the Chinese New Year, thanks to the huge influx of mainlanders who come to HK through Lo Wu / Lok Ma Chau and create a parallel economy of sorts. Years back, it was Mainland Chinese mothers were taking maternal wards of HK and putting the natal care departments of all HK hospitals under stress. HK mothers were given less priority thanks to the brash and oft foolishly assertive nature of the mainlander Chinese parents who came to HK to give birth to their new borns. It was often heard in hospitals " WE ARE PAYING YOU THE MONEY, HK SURVIVES ON OUR MONEY.. SO YOU BETTER BE NICE TO US". Quite often, they forgot *who should have been nicer in the first place*.
> 
> What bites HKers the most is not even the CCP propoganda but yes , the HK Chinese rightly so, have every right to rebuff stupid comments coming from some nut cases who say "Nuke HK ". Guess you young Chinese nationalists have forgotten how painful war is . Nanjing anyone? What they (HKers) don't want is some diarrhea of brashness .


You know the problem cause by immigration better than me, but you just miss one point.

Taiwan hold a promise from the US which US will show up when a war between mainland China and Taiwan breaks out, plus a several squadron of F-22 and B-2 position in Okinawa produce a amount of deterrence, the US has speak out her position by her aircraft carrier crossing the strait in 1996. This is the only reason why Taiwan stay in peace since then, there is a strategic balance. Mainland China can't really touch Taiwan.

Hong Kong has nothing comparable with Taiwan, Hong Kong did not hold any promise from other major power of protection, the reason why mainland China did not replace the Hong Kong political system with communist system is that Hong Kong is a showcase for Taiwan, Special Administrative Region is a proposal of peaceful reunification with Taiwan. The Hong Kong resident do not see the whole picture, they turn their anti immigration sentiment into superiority complex towards the whole China, they think they can stand alone against China economically, politically, militarily, they know nothing about China, they know noting about war, you don't compare Hong Kong with Japan, do you? a painful war? really? what makes you compare the capability of Hong Kong with the capability of Imperial Japan? If there will be a full scale war between mainland China and Hong Kong, post #25 is the whole picture.


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## Donation

Plexyre said:


> For the internet warriors talking about nuking HK, well how about putting some of that enthusiasm into addressing the root of the social conflicts between HK and the mainland instead of acting like loose cannons? Just a thought
> 
> It's not like the independence movement will get anywhere anyway, unless the CPC does something stupid first, so all this talk about independence and military action is hot air


You don't represent Hong Kong resident, Apple daily and hkgolden forum represent Hong Kong resident, They want independence, They want war.


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## 帅的一匹

Anyone think PRC could collect Taiwan back peacefully is rather stupid, do whatever we need to do in Hong
Kong to make sure everything under control. We will not compromise
Sovereignty to entertain westerner. Iron fist will be applied when it is necessary, hope it won't happen in the future.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Donation said:


> LEAVE YOUR F**KING REPLY HERE @Chinese-Dragon, INSTEAD OF REPORTING MY POST WHICH IS MEANT FOR LET OTHER CHINESE MEMBER HERE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW HATEFUL ARE THE MAJORITY OF HONG KONG RESIDENTS TOWARDS THE WHOLE CHINA, THE MAJORITY OF HONG KONG RESIDENTS WANTS INDEPENDENCE, THE MAJORITY OF HONG KONG RESIDENTS WANTS WAR, YOU JUST F**KING ADMIT IT, PEOPLE LIBERATION ARMY WILL LET THE HONG KONG RESIDENTS DIES IN A MUCH MORE EASY WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Nice try "Enemy". 

And thanks for giving me the idea to report your posts. 

Independence parties in HK get ZERO votes from the general public. That's right, zero.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Nice try "Enemy".
> 
> And thanks for giving me the idea to report your posts.
> 
> Independence parties in HK get ZERO votes from the general public. That's right, zero.



We do not like those Brit colonial lovers, but it does not mean we want to see the bad thing happend to HK.

Since HK is also part of China, no one wants to see part of China getting hurt.

Those nuking HK comments obviously do not represent the Mainland Chinese.

Even we hate the Pan-Green movement in Taiwan, we do not want these people, but it does not mean that we do not want Taiwan.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Ask ChineseTiger1986, he knows. I love mainlanders like my own blood, like my own family.

We are all descendants of the Huaxia, we are all brothers and sisters. Except for idiot foreigners like Donation who try to stir up sh*t.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those nuking HK comments obviously do not represent the Mainland Chinese.



Of course. 

Most of my close friends are mainland Chinese, I know how they think. None are like "Donation", who is actually another account of "Enemy".

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Ask ChineseTiger1986, he knows. I love mainlanders like my own blood, like my own family.
> 
> We are all descendants of the Huaxia, we are all brothers and sisters. Except for idiot foreigners like Donation who try to stir up sh*t.



Even the opinion from the most radical Mainlanders is like this: we need the land of HK/TW, those pro-China patriots in HK/TW stay with us, the rest of China haters are trash, go in hell, we don't need you.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even the opinion from the most radical Mainlanders is like this: we need the land of HK/TW, those pro-China patriots in HK/TW stay with us, the rest of China haters are trash, go in hell, we don't need you.



I agree.  

If anyone on PRC territory has a problem with China then they should leave, and find another passport.

We need to quickly get rid of the "one country two systems" policy so we can kick out all the anti-China traitors from here.


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## Donation

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Ask ChineseTiger1986, he knows. I love mainlanders like my own blood, like my own family.
> 
> We are all descendants of the Huaxia, we are all brothers and sisters. Except for idiot foreigners like Donation who try to stir up sh*t.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.
> 
> Most of my close friends are mainland Chinese, I know how they think. None are like "Donation", who is actually another account of "Enemy".


&#20320;&#33258;&#24049;&#21435;&#40845;&#39472;&#32178;&#30535;&#12288;&#25105;&#21482;&#20418;&#35282;&#33394;&#25198;&#28436;

¡¾¿ì±¨¡¿Ïã¸Û¼Æ»®´ÓÖÐ¹ú¶ÀÁ¢£¡£¡ ÖÐ¹úÒÔ¾üÊÂÍþÐ²½ÐÍ£¶ÀÁ¢-·*Òë°æ¿é - Powered by Ltaaa.com!

you are living in delusion, stop lying to yourself, 

you know you don't represent hk golden forum, you know you don't represent apple daily, but they represent you, no matter how, they somehow represent Hong Kong, represnet you.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Most of my close friends are mainland Chinese, I know how they think. None are like "Donation", who is actually another account of "Enemy".



Many Mainlanders like to call HKers as &#8220;&#28207;&#28799;&#8221;&#65292;but those &#8220;&#28207;&#28799;&#8221; mean those China haters in HK.

When they saw the pro-China HKers, they call them &#8220;&#29233;&#28207;&#21516;&#32990;&#8221;.

BTW, i think HK has more pro-CPC folks than Taiwan, since Taiwan has been brainwashed deeply by both KMT and DPP, even many pro-unification Taiwanese were brainwashed by KMT to hate CPC.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Donation said:


> &#20320;&#33258;&#24049;&#21435;&#40845;&#39472;&#32178;&#30535;&#12288;&#25105;&#21482;&#20418;&#35282;&#33394;&#25198;&#28436;
> 
> ¡¾¿ì±¨¡¿Ïã¸Û¼Æ»®´ÓÖÐ¹ú¶ÀÁ¢£¡£¡ ÖÐ¹úÒÔ¾üÊÂÍþÐ²½ÐÍ£¶ÀÁ¢-·*Òë°æ¿é - Powered by Ltaaa.com!
> 
> you are living in delusion, stop lying to yourself,
> 
> you know you don't represent hk golden forum, you know you don't represent apple daily, but they represent you, no matter how, they somehow represent Hong Kong, represnet you.



Thanked to CPC's past failed policy in HK, those pro-China folks got silent by those anti-China folks.

CPC didn't care that much, thanked to the incompetent Hu & Wen administration.

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## Snomannen

Donation said:


> &#20320;&#33258;&#24049;&#21435;&#40845;&#39472;&#32178;&#30535;&#12288;&#25105;&#21482;&#20418;&#35282;&#33394;&#25198;&#28436;
> 
> ¡¾¿ì±¨¡¿Ïã¸Û¼Æ»®´ÓÖÐ¹ú¶ÀÁ¢£¡£¡ ÖÐ¹úÒÔ¾üÊÂÍþÐ²½ÐÍ£¶ÀÁ¢-·*Òë°æ¿é - Powered by Ltaaa.com!
> 
> you are living in delusion, stop lying to yourself,
> 
> you know you don't represent hk golden forum, you know you don't represent apple daily, but they represent you, no matter how, they somehow represent Hong Kong, represnet you.



A internet forum and a newspaper media can represent all HK people? 
Golden Forum are full of uneducated, immature members and Apple Daily are full of rumors and stupid articles.
Are HK people all uneducated, immature, stupid bastards?


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## cnleio

HongKong is free, H.Kers still enjoy their own free speech, free party, free protest in H.K and they freely talked independence(only in H.K internet). But the independence movement not free.


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## Donation

I request all Chinese member here to browse ÏÖÔÚµÄ¡ºÏã¸Û¡¢Ïã¸ÛÈË¡¢Ïã¸ÛÇé¡»_¹ãÖÝºÚÈË°É_°Ù¶ÈÌù°É then tell rather a pro China sentiment or a anti China/ independence sentiment rules the mainstream society of Hong Kong, and then, please CCP throw all the Hong Kong residents into gas chamber, case closed.


@KirovAirship Again, denial, apple daily is the number one print media in Hong Kong in terms of the number of paper they publish everyday, not only that, many protest in Hong Kong I would say is launched by apple daily, eg, Forth of June, Tienanmen square annual memorial, First of July, HKSAR established memorial, to remind people current SAR government is a puppy of Beijing, September Last year, against a secondary school lesson to launch because it is meant for "brainwashing", and pro independence author publish articles on apple daily too, and you and Chinese-Dragon tell me they are not the majority??? 

stop twisting sh*t here, the majority of the Hong Kong residents want independence, the majority of Hong Kong resident want War(People's Liberation Army is so ready to fulfill their desire.) You and Chinese-Dragon are not in the majority, DON'T MADE ME REPEAT THAT EVER AGAIN.


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## Donation

#########################


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## skyknight

Donation said:


> 1. Remove all H shares (China stock issued in Hong Kong) by turning all of it into A share
> 2. Remove CEPA (Mainland and Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement)
> 3. Stationary force in Hong Kong move to Guangzhou
> 4. 42nd Group Army move to the border, but not enter
> 5. 170, 171 Luyang II-Class DDG move to the border, but not enter
> 6. 43rd Airborne Division take over Chep Lap Kok airport
> 7. Lock all seaport, airport, groundport in Hong Kong by the above forces
> 8. Tell all immigrate from mainland to move back
> 9. Deport all foreigners
> 10. Distribute foreign made weapons to the Hong Kong residents
> 11. CCP officially announced there are rebels in Hong Kong
> 12. Position 10 thousands sets of Self-propelled guns and Multiple Rocket Launcher including PLZ-05 PLZ-07 PHL-03 WS-2 in Guangzhou
> 13. Fire it all to the densely populated area in Hong Kong for 96 hours
> 14. 42nd Group Army cross the border and shoot anything that moves
> 15. CCP officially announced Mission Accomplished, saying the well equipped and the well trained troops of Hong Kong Interdependent Movement is the major reason that makes PLA deploy such firepower, CCP does not meant to such human life loss, Marking the day as National day of mourning for the innocent Hong Kong resident.
> 16. There will be no independent movement anymore because there is no Hong Kong resident alive.


Hi&#65292;why not go back to your home and take some medicine?

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## Donation

skyknight said:


> Hi&#65292;why not go back to your home and take some medicine?


Have you visit the link I post in post #48


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## skyknight

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even the opinion from the most radical Mainlanders is like this: we need the land of HK/TW, those pro-China patriots in HK/TW stay with us, the rest of China haters are trash, go in hell, we don't need you.


This idiot maybe a &#28207;&#28799;&#65292;&#24223;&#38738;&#65292;&#35199;&#23869; form &#39640;&#30331;&#12290;


----------



## Anonymous user

Any Chinese member here to advocate war/torture or any kind of BS should be ashamed of themselves, considering how many pro China supporters in this forum (from HK) have always stood by the BS from other members on this forum throughout against China.

I know many level headed Hong Kong people who shake their heads when dumb ***** keep pushing for independence or british rule etc. These people are the ones that make up the foundation of Hong Kong and not the small minority, even if you're pissed at them one should always win them over through soft means (we are all Chinese). Otherwise how would you ever convince Taiwan to unify?

Hong Kong will never be independent, Electricity, Water, Food etc are all supplied from China I would not even need to mention Defense/army requirements and a host of other things which China provides for Hong Kong.

So the naysayers who keep coming up with Ideas to deal with Hong Kong please stop it, frankly its an embarrassment.


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## Donation

Anonymous user said:


> Any Chinese member here to advocate war/torture or any kind of BS should be ashamed of themselves, considering how many pro China supporters in this forum (from HK) have always stood by the BS from other members on this forum throughout against China.
> 
> I know many level headed Hong Kong people who shake their heads when dumb ***** keep pushing for independence or british rule etc. These people are the ones that make up the foundation of Hong Kong and not the small minority, even if you're pissed at them one should always win them over through soft means (we are all Chinese). Otherwise how would you ever convince Taiwan to unify?
> 
> Hong Kong will never be independent, Electricity, Water, Food etc are all supplied from China I would not even need to mention Defense/army requirements and a host of other things which China provides for Hong Kong.
> 
> So the naysayers who keep coming up with Ideas to deal with Hong Kong please stop it, frankly its an embarrassment.



You mean the Hong Kong people who work in Singapore? how can you prove they are the majority? they are silent! In terms of how much noise are made, how many protest are launched, how many slogan, GIFs are made, Apple Daily and HK Golden forum are definitely the majority with no question.


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## jhungary

There are opposition voice in *EVERY COUNTRY*, even in China, do we need to make a big deal out of it? No

You can go ahead and love your country and you can go ahead and hate your country. Does that mean we should make a war for those who hated and those who loved? No

There are still freedom of believe in Hong Kong, there are nothing anyone could do to anyone, period.

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## Snomannen

Donation said:


> I request all Chinese member here to browse ÏÖÔÚµÄ¡ºÏã¸Û¡¢Ïã¸ÛÈË¡¢Ïã¸ÛÇé¡»_¹ãÖÝºÚÈË°É_°Ù¶ÈÌù°É then tell rather a pro China sentiment or a anti China/ independence sentiment rules the mainstream society of Hong Kong, and then, please CCP throw all the Hong Kong residents into gas chamber, case closed.
> 
> 
> @KirovAirship Again, denial, apple daily is the number one print media in Hong Kong in terms of the number of paper they publish everyday, not only that, many protest in Hong Kong I would say is launched by apple daily, eg, Forth of June, Tienanmen square annual memorial, First of July, HKSAR established memorial, to remind people current SAR government is a puppy of Beijing, September Last year, against a secondary school lesson to launch because it is meant for "brainwashing", and pro independence author publish articles on apple daily too, and you and Chinese-Dragon tell me they are not the majority???
> 
> stop twisting sh*t here, the majority of the Hong Kong residents want independence, the majority of Hong Kong resident want War(People's Liberation Army is so ready to fulfill their desire.) You and Chinese-Dragon are not in the majority, DON'T MADE ME REPEAT THAT EVER AGAIN.



Yeah yeah "Number 1 Media", so?

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*&#21029;&#20195;&#25105;&#24605;&#32771;*

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------------------------------------------------------

You people are not different from the Red Army, you are those who brainwashed by those &#21453;&#20013;&#20098;&#28207; medias.
You people are nothing but losers of reality. 
You people are uneducated, brainwashed and immature, you don't even know how to use your brain.
You people don't know how to judge the truth and find reference, 
You people always spread stupid rumors around (those posts deleted above)
You people as a &#39640;&#30331;&#20180; dare to represent all HK people, just like 4chaner dare to represent the whole USA.
You have no future, HK is being destroyed by immature generations like you.


----------



## Secur

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Nice try "Enemy".
> 
> And thanks for giving me the idea to report your posts.
> 
> Independence parties in HK get ZERO votes from the general public. That's right, zero.



Remind me of the status of Hong Kong in China ? Isn't it controlled by the CCP directly and isn't PLA stationed there ? Whats all this fuss about then ? Are the citizens of that city , not Chinese ?

I do not see any new credible threat though , HK cant survive a week without the mainland ...


----------



## Snomannen

Secur said:


> Remind me of the status of Hong Kong in China ? Isn't it controlled by the CCP directly and isn't PLA stationed there ? Whats all this fuss about then ? Are the citizens of that city , not Chinese ?
> 
> I do not see any new credible threat though , HK cant survive a week without the mainland ...



Hong Kong people are completely ruled by Hong Kong people, but HK people's government can't run their home well since those British were left. Therefore some idiots try to blame their own failure to the Central Government. The new generations are mostly brainwashed by internet rumors and stupid medias (news without reference and spread rumors). They are not better than the Red Army. 

Have you ever seen Macau people raises Portuguese Macau Flag? Never.
Have you even seen Macau people quarreling around the street and shout for "freedom"? Never.
Have you ever seen Macau people claim that Macau is not part of China? Seldom.
Have you ever seen mods mess around in the parliament, throwing banana and paper made airplane, do nothing but wasting taxpayers' money? Never.

Why are we different? We were both apart from the Mainland, but why?
Because we understand the simple principle [Together we stand strong].
Do we have conflict with Mainlander? Yes, a lot. 
But we also know that conflicts are everywhere, even in India, the US, Japan blah blah blah.


----------



## Donation

KirovAirship said:


> Hong Kong people are completely ruled by Hong Kong people, but HK people's government can't run their home well since those British were left. Therefore some idiots try to blame their own failure to the Central Government. The new generations are mostly brainwashed by internet rumors and stupid medias (news without reference and spread rumors). They are not better than the Red Army.
> 
> Have you ever seen Macau people raises Portuguese Macau Flag? Never.
> Have you even seen Macau people quarreling around the street and shout for "freedom"? Never.
> Have you ever seen Macau people claim that Macau is not part of China? Seldom.
> Have you ever seen mods mess around in the parliament, throwing banana and paper made airplane, do nothing but wasting taxpayers' money? Never.
> 
> Why are we different? We were both apart from the Mainland, but why?
> Because we understand the simple principle [Together we stand strong].
> Do we have conflict with Mainlander? Yes, a lot.
> But we also know that conflicts are everywhere, even in India, the US, Japan blah blah blah.



You are trying a little bit too hard here, nothing can stop the desire of the Hong Kong people to go after a independence status, nothing can stop the Hong Kong people being thrown into gas chamber by the PLA soldiers, the destiny of Hong Kong is written, while the Macau residents witness the genocide at such distance, they will know their place, they will stand on their knees, beg for mercy of the CCP, and never dare to ask for independence, so then, case solved.


----------



## Viet

Donation said:


> You are trying a little bit too hard here, *nothing can stop the desire of the Hong Kong people to go after a independence status*, nothing can stop the Hong Kong people being thrown into gas chamber by the PLA soldiers, the destiny of Hong Kong is written, while the Macau residents witness the genocide at such distance, they will know their place, they will stand on their knees, beg for mercy of the CCP, and never dare to ask for independence, so then, case solved.


Try harder dude. I highly question you are a HKer. The people of HK may seek for more freedoms from Beijing but never demand to be independent. There are few that ask for such impossibilty. That´s a dead wish indeed!

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## Donation

Viet said:


> Try harder dude. I highly question you are a HKer. The people of HK may seek for more freedoms from Beijing but never demand to be independent. There are few that ask for such impossibilty. That´s a dead wish indeed!


you are a foreigner, how do you know? In fact, Im a local Hong Kong resident, I know the truth, rather what the majority of Hong Kong people demand and how CCP will deal with it, I just do a future teller job, to tell people how Hong Kong ends in a hellfire of PLA rockets and missiles, got it?


----------



## Viet

RIMPAC said:


> Hong Kong authorities should arrest all anti-mainland people and send them to labour camps.
> Hong Kongers think they are some big shot but they depend on the mainland for 100% of their economic prosperity and security.
> 
> We can send our PLA soldiers into Hong Kong and arrest all colonial flag waving anti-mainlanders and bring them back to the mainland and send them all to labour camps until they learn to kiss our a$$e$.
> 
> There is not a damn thing Hong Kongers can do about that if CPC hardliners think we should do that.
> *We are judge, jury and executioner of Hong Kong.*
> Don't you ever forget it. We own Hong Kong.


The first part is correct. HK thanks China for prosperity. Second part is BS. China cannot ditate HK´s life. Wait until the 50 year period is over, than you can send tanks to HK.



Donation said:


> you are a foreigner, how do you know? In fact, *Im a local Hong Kong resident,* I know the truth, rather what the majority of Hong Kong people demand and how CCP will deal with it, I just do a future teller job, to tell people how Hong Kong ends in a hellfire of PLA rockets and missiles, got it?


Prove me that you are a local Hong Kong resident! Sure HK will end in fire if it seeks independence. Got it?

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## Donation

Viet said:


> Prove me that you are a local Hong Kong resident! Sure HK will end in fire if it seeks independence. Got it?



I am therefore I am, period. What do you want? I know the current Chief Executive Officer of HK is Leung Chun Ying, What do you want me to prove?


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## Viet

Donation said:


> I am therefore I am, period. What do you want? I know the current Chief Executive Officer of HK is Leung Chun Ying, What do you want me to prove?


LOL show me your ID card!

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## Donation

Viet said:


> LOL show me your ID card!



LOL I won't disclose my personal data because I have to prove to someone over some stupid Internet debate.

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## Viet

Donation said:


> LOL I won't disclose my personal data because I have to prove to someone over some *stupid Internet debate*.


Correct, stupid Internet debate. Come on dude, you just hide your identity, I don´t mind if you are not Chinese nor HKer. Read some of your posts, I must laugh, such as this one: 



> ...from @Donation
> China did not earn any respect from the world by far, the world has long label China/ Chinese as dog eater, communist, human right abuse, nature of copying, looks ugly, cheap labors, unreliable made in China, *easy Chinese girls*, therefore, China barely lost any reputation by launch a strategic bombing against Hong Kong, because thats what China does not has much at the beginning.



From what I see is most Chinese don´t take you seriously. LOL easy Chinese girls

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## Donation

Viet said:


> Correct, stupid Internet debate. Come on dude, you just hide your identity, I don´t mind if you are not Chinese nor HKer. Read some of your posts, I must laugh, such as this one:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I see is most Chinese don´t take you seriously. LOL easy Chinese girls



YOU ARE JUST RUINING MY THREAD WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WAHT IS YOUR IDENTITY THEN? ARE YOU CHINESE?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Try harder dude. I highly question you are a HKer. The people of HK may seek for more freedoms from Beijing but never demand to be independent. There are few that ask for such impossibilty. That´s a dead wish indeed!



Are you saying that ALL people in Texas wanted to secede from the union just because there's a strong sentiment for secession in the state? 

Donation is an individual and as such his thought are his own. Even if most HK wanted greater autonomy that doesn't mean individual doesn't have any opinion regarding the issue.



Donation said:


> YOU ARE JUST RUINING MY THREAD WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WAHT IS YOUR IDENTITY THEN? ARE YOU CHINESE?



Don't mind him, he's just a Trolling with you. Its not like he can actually proof you're a "Chinese" or whatever nationality you are.


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## Viet

Donation said:


> YOU ARE JUST RUINING MY THREAD WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WAHT IS YOUR IDENTITY THEN? ARE YOU CHINESE?


LOL no, I am a Viet German, maybe with some Chinese in blood vessel like many Chinese with Vietnamese blood. Who are you?


----------



## Donation

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Are you saying that ALL people in Texas wanted to secede from the union just because there's a strong sentiment for secession in the state?
> 
> Donation is an individual and as such his thought are his own. Even if most HK wanted greater autonomy that doesn't mean individual doesn't have any opinion regarding the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't mind him, he's just a Trolling with you. Its not like he can actually proof you're a "Chinese" or whatever nationality you are.


Sorry dude, I don't take side on the issue, I just tell people what the majority of HK people demand as I live there(that what Mr Viet trying to prove I am not), I know their demand and I know what will happened to the city, I just tell the whole story that will come true in the near future.



Viet said:


> LOL no, I am a Viet German, maybe with some Chinese in blood vessel like many Chinese with Vietnamese blood. Who are you?



I am a local HK resident to educate people here the destiny of HK.


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## northeast

zzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Are you saying that ALL people in Texas wanted to secede from the union just because there's a strong sentiment for secession in the state?


That does not make sense to me. Who wants secession in America?


Reashot Xigwin said:


> Donation is an individual and as such his thought are his own. Even if most HK wanted greater autonomy that doesn't mean individual doesn't have any opinion regarding the issue.


Donation makes fun with the Chinese. Fact is HK enjoys today more freedoms and properity than mainland Chinese can dream of. Independence is dead wish.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> That does not make sense to me. Who wants secession in America?



Don't act cute I merely uses it as an example. For example there's sizable group of Vietnamese who doesn't like the way their country govern does that make them "Non-Vietnamese?"


----------



## Snomannen

Donation said:


> You are trying a little bit too hard here, nothing can stop the desire of the Hong Kong people to go after a independence status, nothing can stop the Hong Kong people being thrown into gas chamber by the PLA soldiers, the destiny of Hong Kong is written, while the Macau residents witness the genocide at such distance, they will know their place, they will stand on their knees, beg for mercy of the CCP, and never dare to ask for independence, so then, case solved.



Blah blah blah, all hail Donation the holy Emperor of Hong Kong. 

Oh by the way, our economy is getting better and better yearly. 
I'm pleased.

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## Snomannen

Viet said:


> LOL show me your ID card!



How could you ask someone to show you sth that he doesn't even have.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Don't act cute I merely uses it as an example. For example there's sizable group of Vietnamese who doesn't like the way their country govern does that make them "*Non-Vietnamese?*"


Non-Vietnamese? Now I get confused. Pls elaborate a bit.



KirovAirship said:


> How could you ask someone to show you sth that he doesn't even have.


The question provides the answer if not responded.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Non-Vietnamese? Now I get confused. Pls elaborate a bit.



Stop acting cute. I know you're from a totalitarian one-party state that crushes their dissident, but it doesn't mean that the people doesn't have their own opinion. You accuse someone of not being a citizen of their country just because you "think" the majority of people in the country have a differing opinion from said person. Its the same when I've been accused by Niceguy for being "Anti-ASEAN Integration" like I cannot have my own opinion. We are here not as representative of our respective country, but as a free-thinking individual. So please stop generalizing people for having different opinion.


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## jhungary

Honestly, even i don't live in HK anymore and i know the CEO of HK is CY Leung........

The problem is, if he think he should use tank and missile and stuff like that and overpower the opposition voice then let him be, same thing we tell those Chinese member here think if they can nuke Japan, US and whatever damn place they like without their own country destroyed.

He is just another troll, trying to get 50 cents.

Remind me of a story i heard a few years ago, there are this Mainland Chinese student studying in HK with a schlorship provided by CUHK (Chinese University of Hong Kong) and he put in a heated post/tweet or whatever you call in his blog. Naming every Hong Konger are dog and deserved to be shot or run over. But yet, the guys is still collecting schlorship with everything pay for and studying and living in HK for absolutely free. I wonder the similarity between him and this Donation character.


----------



## Donation

jhungary said:


> Honestly, even i don't live in HK anymore and i know the CEO of HK is CY Leung........
> 
> The problem is, if he think he should use tank and missile and stuff like that and overpower the opposition voice then let him be, same thing we tell those Chinese member here think if they can nuke Japan, US and whatever damn place they like without their own country destroyed.
> 
> He is just another troll, trying to get 50 cents.
> 
> Remind me of a story i heard a few years ago, there are this Mainland Chinese student studying in HK with a schlorship provided by CUHK (Chinese University of Hong Kong) and he put in a heated post/tweet or whatever you call in his blog. Naming every Hong Konger are dog and deserved to be shot or run over. But yet, the guys is still collecting schlorship with everything pay for and studying and living in HK for absolutely free. I wonder the similarity between him and this Donation character.


Its like Mainland Chinese mocking Hong Konger become a financial hub by the China stock and call Chinese locust, its not a moral debate who score when he being grateful or morally superior, its just a war, the Hong Konger have to being thrown into gas chamber since the majority of them going after independence. That's how CCP do stuff, I just tell people what will happened, I don't take side.


----------



## jhungary

Donation said:


> Its like Mainland Chinese mocking Hong Konger become a financial hub by the China stock and call Chinese locust, its not a moral debate who score when he being grateful or morally superior, its just a war, the Hong Konger have to being thrown into gas chamber since the majority of them going after independence. That's how CCP do stuff, I just tell people what will happened, I don't take side.



2 holes and 1 contradiction in your post.

1st hole.) Hong Kong become a financial hub in the 1970s, before China even developed. And even before i was born

2nd hole.)* If you claim you are a HK resident*, then would you perfer to walk in or being drag into the gas chamber yourselve when CCP really start doing it?? As you are as many as corrupted as any Hong Konger that wanted independent. You cannot say if most of the HKer want independent, and you are the only one who are not. If you do, then you need to led by example and walk into the gas chamber first. *How do you explain you are not one of the HKer that hate China? BEcause you said so??*

1 Contradiction 



> *the Hong Konger have to being thrown into gas chamber since the majority of them going after independence*. That's how CCP do stuff, I just tell people what will happened, *I don't take side*.



Bsically the red contradict with the blue. If you don't take side, then how do you believe or encouage or preach that CCP will put every HKer hate China in a gas chamber??

LOL

I am not going to reply you anymore, have fun trolling


----------



## conworldus

Donation said:


> Its like Mainland Chinese mocking Hong Konger become a financial hub by the China stock and call Chinese locust, its not a moral debate who score when he being grateful or morally superior, its just a war, the Hong Konger have to being thrown into gas chamber since the majority of them going after independence. That's how CCP do stuff, I just tell people what will happened, I don't take side.



China does not have gas chambers. Hong Kong is doing fine, thank you. Hong Kong will be even better if all the Indians here get deported back to your motherland India.

==================================================

He is most likely just another false flagging Indian. His English is just too poor for someone who's educated in Hong Kong.



jhungary said:


> 2 holes and 1 contradiction in your post.
> 
> 1st hole.) Hong Kong become a financial hub in the 1970s, before China even developed. And even before i was born
> 
> 2nd hole.)* If you claim you are a HK resident*, then would you perfer to walk in or being drag into the gas chamber yourselve when CCP really start doing it?? As you are as many as corrupted as any Hong Konger that wanted independent. You cannot say if most of the HKer want independent, and you are the only one who are not. If you do, then you need to led by example and walk into the gas chamber first. *How do you explain you are not one of the HKer that hate China? BEcause you said so??*
> 
> 1 Contradiction
> 
> 
> 
> Bsically the red contradict with the blue. If you don't take side, then how do you believe or encouage or preach that CCP will put every HKer hate China in a gas chamber??
> 
> LOL
> 
> I am not going to reply you anymore, have fun trolling


----------



## Donation

jhungary said:


> 2 holes and 1 contradiction in your post.
> 1st hole.) Hong Kong become a financial hub in the 1970s, before China even developed. And even before i was born


hmmm... great, at one moment, I would like to introduce you there are only two out of the top twenty highest volume stock issued in hkex are HK origin company, also how the Caucasian funds are after "emerging market" since the last decade, but since you and the majority of HKer are so confident, then, I guess it no problem remove all H share like... tomorrow. 



jhungary said:


> 2nd hole.) If you claim you are a HK resident, then would you perfer to walk in or being drag into the gas chamber yourselve when CCP really start doing it?? As you are as many as corrupted as any Hong Konger that wanted independent. You cannot say if most of the HKer want independent, and you are the only one who are not. If you do, then you need to led by example and walk into the gas chamber first. How do you explain you are not one of the HKer that hate China? BEcause you said so??


I said CCP will kill ALL HKer because the majority want independence, NOT because they hate China, and NOT only the one who want independence will be killed.



jhungary said:


> 1 Contradiction
> Bsically the red contradict with the blue. If you don't take side, then how do you believe or encouage or preach that CCP will put every HKer hate China in a gas chamber??
> LOL
> I am not going to reply you anymore, have fun trolling


Screw you bro.


----------



## for truth

conworldus said:


> China does not have gas chambers. Hong Kong is doing fine, thank you. Hong Kong will be even better if all the Indians here get deported back to your motherland India.
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> He is most likely just another false flagging Indian. His English is just too poor for someone who's educated in Hong Kong.



what fools like you need to understand here is that this guy has been posting comments offensive even against India, there were instance were he even derailed the entire thread by posting off topic comments and digress from the topic which were related to India. so fools like you need to grow up, he is not an Indian, and Indians' need not hide their identity under different flags,rather farting, deal with it now.


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## conworldus

Donation said:


> WAR WAR WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KILL THE HKer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The PLA garrison here is enough to defeat any Indian war attempt on our city. Thank you for trying.



for truth said:


> what fools like you need to understand here is that this guy has been posting comments offensive even against India, there were instance were he even derailed the entire thread by posting off topic comments and digress from the topic which were related to India. so fools like you need to grow up, he is not an Indian, and Indians' need not hide their identity under different flags,rather farting, deal with it now.



Quote any of his post where he offended India, please.


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## Chinese-Dragon

conworldus said:


> China does not have gas chambers. Hong Kong is doing fine, thank you. Hong Kong will be even better if all the Indians here get deported back to your motherland India.
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> He is most likely just another false flagging Indian. His English is just too poor for someone who's educated in Hong Kong.



Those false flaggers don't even bother trying anymore. 

Gas chambers, wtf.


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## conworldus

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Those false flaggers don't even bother trying anymore.
> 
> Gas chambers, wtf.



you should read his previous super pro-India, anti-China post. 

Here is his post:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...t-dead-least-8-assam-tribe-2.html#post3914624

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## Dandpatta

conworldus said:


> China does not have gas chambers. Hong Kong is doing fine, thank you. Hong Kong will be even better if all the Indians here get deported back to your motherland India.
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> He is most likely just another false flagging Indian. His English is just too poor for someone who's educated in Hong Kong.



Biggest joke ! HKers english standards are perhaps the laughing stock of the world. The way yooo speek engolish.. I dong lo summ thyme wott yooo sey lo... Perhaps you HKChinese should take a few lessons on how the mainlanders try HARD in speaking english and not shy away from attempting it. Better still, accept the fact that majority of HK students can't even hold a proper english conversation, leave alone get better at it. 

You want to troll, learn to measure your opponents first - be they across the borders of Lowu (whom you HKers call derogatorily as locusts) or .. your pet hate "Indians".

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## conworldus

Dandpatta said:


> Biggest joke ! HKers english standards are perhaps the laughing stock of the world. The way yooo speek engolish.. I dong lo summ thyme wott yooo sey lo... Perhaps you HKChinese should take a few lessons on how the mainlanders try HARD in speaking english and not shy away from attempting it. Better still, accept the fact that majority of HK students can't even hold a proper english conversation, leave alone get better at it.
> 
> You want to troll, learn to measure your opponents first - be they across the borders of Lowu (whom you HKers call derogatorily as locusts) or .. your pet hate "Indians".



Ok. So, why are you in my city?


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## for truth

conworldus said:


> you should read his previous super pro-India, anti-China post.
> 
> Here is his post:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...t-dead-least-8-assam-tribe-2.html#post3914624



he has been member since past 1 year, he has been trolling for long. If he is really a false flagger, than put this fool in the gas chamber right now. I have no respect for those who hide behind different identities, however, i don't believe him to be Indian, Indians don't need to hide behind different flags to support their nation.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Dandpatta said:


> Biggest joke ! HKers english standards are perhaps the laughing stock of the world. The way yooo speek engolish.. I dong lo summ thyme wott yooo sey lo... Perhaps you HKChinese should take a few lessons on how the mainlanders try HARD in speaking english and not shy away from attempting it. Better still, accept the fact that majority of HK students can't even hold a proper english conversation, leave alone get better at it.
> 
> You want to troll, learn to measure your opponents first - be they across the borders of Lowu (whom you HKers call derogatorily as locusts) or .. your pet hate "Indians".



Then what are you doing in our city?

I'm sure you know Hong Kong well enough to know about the case of Martin Jacques wife. So you know how it works.



Dandpatta said:


> .. I dong lo summ thyme wott yooo sey lo...



You got the accent right.  That is literally the only positive thing I can say about your post.


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## conworldus

Hey "For Truth", why don't you start digging your countryman Donation's post record before saying that "No Indians will do this or that"?


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## conworldus

Martin Jacques and his wife went for cheap. They used the public hospital system after recently arriving in Hong Kong.

Public hospitals in Hong Kong are funded by Hong Kong tax payer's money. If neither of them has been in Hong Kong long enough, then morally (although legally speaking, they probably both had HKID at the time due to work) they should opt for the health insurance and go to private hospital.





Chinese-Dragon said:


> Then what are you doing in our city?
> 
> I'm sure you know Hong Kong well enough to know about the case of Martin Jacques wife. So you know how it works.
> 
> 
> 
> You got the accent right.  That is literally the only positive thing I can say about your post.

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## darkhero

Donation said:


> THERE WILL BE A WAR BETWEEN MAINLAND CHINA AND HONG KONG IN THE NEAR FUTURE!! AND THE RESULT IS DEATH OF ALL HKer, HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAH



are you mad? or are you just a teenager? anyway, stop talking like idiot, and have a good sleep.


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## Chinese-Dragon

conworldus said:


> Martin Jacques and his wife went for cheap. They used the public hospital system after recently arriving in Hong Kong.
> 
> Public hospitals in Hong Kong are funded by Hong Kong tax payer's money. If neither of them has been in Hong Kong long enough, then morally (although legally speaking, they probably both had HKID at the time due to work) they should opt for the health insurance and go to private hospital.



I was speaking more about the relations between locals and Indians, but what you said is right anyway.

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## conworldus

darkhero said:


> are you mad? or are you just a teenager? anyway, stop talking like idiot, and have a good sleep.



He is just being an Indian, that's all.


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## conworldus

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I was speaking more about the relations between locals and Indians, but what you said is right anyway.



It is also about the relations. Indians are not favored in Hong Kong because of their uncivilized behavior (although they are exceptions especially Indians who are born here). I am not surprised at the prejudice she suffered in hospital.

Racism is the result of Indians' collective behavior. It is a shame what happened, though.


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## notsuperstitious

If you think he's indian then let the mods find out. There is no need to use that troll to take potshots against indians, as then indians will respond and this troll thread will hit the ceiling.

Racist posters like cornwoldus are known for their india obsession and keep bringing in india at all kinds of threads. I guess he's looking for an excuse anyway. Just ignore such trolls from both sides.

@nuclearpak can you pls close this thread pls as the quality of posting is too low and there is no real issue being discussed here.

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## Chinese-Dragon

conworldus said:


> It is also about the relations. Indians are not favored in Hong Kong because of their uncivilized behavior (although they are exceptions especially Indians who are born here). I am not surprised at the prejudice she suffered in hospital.
> 
> Racism is the result of Indians' collective behavior. It is a shame what happened, though.



I just don't get how Dandpatta can sit in a Chinese city and laugh about Chinese regionalism. Sure there is regionalism, but we are all Chinese at the end of the day.

He isn't. So he is not justified in making such comments.


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## Hafizzz

Hong Kong Red Cross rallies support for typhoon relief | Inquirer Global Nation

Despite the strained relations between Hong Kong and the Philippines, the Hong Kong public has donated HK$5.9 million (P33 million) for the victims of Supertyphoon “Yolanda.”

The Hong Kong Red Cross (HKRC) said it had launched an emergency appeal to Hong Kong residents on Tuesday for the victims of the typhoon that ravaged central Philippines.

“Up to 4:30 p.m. (Thursday), HKRC has received over HK$5.9 million from the Hong Kong public. We thank the public for their generous donations,” the HKRC said in a statement.

It added that the figure included a US$500,000 donation from the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank (HSBC) to support “the Philippine Red Cross in providing emergency relief, rehabilitation and recovery assistance to the victims.”

The HKRC said it initially allocated HK$500,000 for emergency relief in the Philippines.


*Street fundraising*

“HKRC will also stage street fundraising activities in various spots across the territory this Sunday,” the agency said.

“Many enthusiastic volunteers, members and staff members have enrolled for the activities in the hope of raising more public concern and donations for the relief operation,” it added.

The donations come even after diplomatic relations between Hong Kong and Manila deteriorated due to President Aquino’s refusal to apologize for the 2010 hostage tragedy that left eight Hong Kong people dead.

Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chunying on Nov. 5 said the former Crown colony would impose sanctions on the Philippines if no substantial progress was made in a month’s time in the negotiations to compensate the victims. At the height of international humanitarian efforts in the Visayas, the Hong Kong leader said the deadline will not be extended.

Nevertheless, Filipino community leaders in Hong Kong said many locals want to help victims of supertyphoon Yolanda despite the fallout from the hostage crisis.

*Willing to help*

“We’ve received a lot of phone calls from (Hong Kong) NGOs and the academe and they’re willing to help,” said Eman Villanueva, spokesperson for the Operation Migrante Sagip Kababayan, a relief effort here in Hong Kong to help the typhoon victims.

“The students of the Chinese International School dressed up in red, white and blue…the colors of the Philippines…(on Nov. 13),” said marketing executive Catherine Feliciano-Chon. The students also donated $20 each to the Philippine Red Cross,” she added.

The HKRC has also set up a Tracing and Psychological Support Service for Filipinos in Hong Kong who have lost contact with their relatives back in the Philippines due to the typhoon.

“HKRC’s Emergency Tracing Service has received 96 enquiries, with 23 cases still in process for seeking 68 missing family members in the Philippines due to this disaster,” the HKRC said.

On the other hand, its Psychological Support Hotline Service, manned by trained psychological support service volunteers and professional clinical psychologists, has handled 34 cases.

“Most of the domestic helpers were worried about the safety of their family members, and we offered them immediate emotional support,” the HKRC said.

However, there are still locals who are angry about the 2010 hostage crisis and who made “abusive and derogatory” remarks online about Filipinos in relation to supertyphoon Yolanda. On Wednesday, Hong Kong’s Equal Opportunities Commission (EOC) reminded all that inciting hatred toward another person or members of a class of persons on the ground of their race was not just inappropriate but also illegal. *Hong Kong adds $5.16-M in funds for PH aid*
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/world/11/15/13/hong-kong-adds-516-m-funds-ph-aid

HONG KONG - Hong Kong said Friday it will contribute $5.16 million to a fund that can be used to help the typhoon-stricken Philippines, after drawing fire for sticking to a deadline on sanctions against Manila over a 2010 hostage crisis.

The city's legislative body voted for the injection of HK$40 million ($5.16 million) into an existing disaster relief fund, boosting its total amount to HK$49 million, which aid groups can then apply for, the government said in a statement late Friday.

"We really want to provide the needed aid to victims affected very significantly by this major typhoon," the territory's chief secretary Carrie Lam said earlier this week.

Hong Kong is insisting that the Philippines offer a formal apology over the 2010 hijacking of a tour bus in Manila by a former police officer which left eight Hong Kongers dead and seven injured.

Its refusal to drop the threat despite the devastating impact of typhoon Haiyan, which has killed thousands and devastated entire coastal communities, has drawn strong criticism from some Hong Kongers and the city's Filipino migrant workers.

"The situation is still the same," a government spokeswoman told AFP on Friday.

Aid for the Philippines has been pouring in from around the world following the disaster, and Hong Kong's stance drew anger from citizens who expressed themselves on bulletin boards and social media.

"This is totally disgusting behaviour... Hong Kong is losing its way," says one person posting on the South China Morning post's website.

"Shame, shame, shame, Hong Kong," said another user.

Eman Villanueva, vice chairman of the Filipino Migrant Workers' Union, told AFP the government's position on the sanctions deadline was "insensitive" and that the deadline should be pushed back.

"Any sanctions imposed on the Philippines will directly affect the people and not the government," he said.

Hong Kong's leader Leung Chun-ying said last week that he will take "necessary actions to apply sanctions" if he does not see concrete steps taken to resolve the issue within a month.

The city's unpopular government -- under pressure from families of the victims -- has mooted a cancellation of its visa-free arrangement for visitors from the Philippines as well as possible trade sanctions.

Philippine President Benigno Aquino has refused to apologise on behalf of the country for the Manila hostage situation, insisting the deaths were primarily caused by the actions of the hostage taker.

The Hong Kong Red Cross said Friday it has also raised HK$7.7 million dollars from the public for the Philippines relief effort.

The United Nations has appealed for $301 million in aid, with the US and Britain among leading donors and China on Thursday stepping up its initially modest response to dispatch rescue materials worth $1.6 million.

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## Fsjal

Hafizzz said:


> Philippine President Benigno Aquino has refused to apologise on behalf of the country for the Manila hostage situation, insisting the deaths were primarily caused by the actions of the hostage taker.


Don't take him seriously. He can't look after Chinese tourists, but can look after American tourists.


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## Zero_wing

Fsjal said:


> Don't take him seriously. He can't look after Chinese tourists, but can look after American tourists.



Says the chinamen


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## Hafizzz

Hong Kong named one of world's best cities for students | South China Morning Post







Hong Kong has been named the seventh-best city in the world for students but remains behind Singapore, which is Asia's top-ranked city.

Both cities leapt up the rankings in the second QS Best Student Cities list - Hong Kong by 12 places and Singapore by nine, to third overall.

Paris and London held their positions at the top of the leader board. Beijing and Shanghai came 18th and 35th respectively.

Cities were judged in five categories: university rankings, student mix, quality of living, employer activity in recruiting students and affordability.

Hong Kong scored a total of 403 out of a possible 500.

"With a maximum of 100 points awarded [in each category], Hong Kong's highest scores were 96 for employer activity, 94 for rankings and 85 for student mix," QS head of research Ben Sowter said. "With employment upon graduation an increasing worry for students around the world, the city's high employer activity combined with world class universities gives it a unique edge on the world stage."

High rent dragged down the city's affordability score (69), although eating out and transport were deemed cheap.

Last year, Hong Kong had an overall score of 351 and was described as "a bit daunting" for those who valued "peace, quiet and personal space".

To be considered for this year's rankings, a city had to have a population of more than 250,000 and at least two institutions in the QS World University Rankings. Ninety-eight cities qualified for the list.


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## ChineseTiger1986

香港靖国神社崇敬奉賛会


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## ChineseTiger1986




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## Tractor

Can't see photos but a nothing to do with Japnese I think.靖国 and 神社 all Chinese words with Chinese origins.


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## Genesis

very cool.

Next time Japan goes on top of the Diaoyu islands or sent ships, maybe the Nationalist China can chase them away with their outdated "destroyers?"


To be honest, I'm kinda tired of the current HK people, if you really want independence then fine, what difference does it make to me, what I will say is this, just like America, the British are first laughing at the US, but today they can be nothing but lap dogs in US' lap.

Go to China early establish yourself, maybe there could be a spot for you in the new world power, get there too late, well there has never been a British borne US president, just saying.

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## Wholegrain

Genesis said:


> very cool.
> 
> Next time Japan goes on top of the Diaoyu islands or sent ships, maybe the Nationalist China can chase them away with their outdated "destroyers?"
> 
> 
> To be honest, I'm kinda tired of the current HK people, if you really want independence then fine, what difference does it make to me, what I will say is this, just like America, the British are first laughing at the US, but today they can be nothing but lap dogs in US' lap.
> 
> Go to China early establish yourself, maybe there could be a spot for you in the new world power, get there too late, well there has never been a British borne US president, just saying.



You seriously fell for this BS? I can troll by hanging a Mexican flag right next to an Al Qaeda flag, and have someone bow down to both of them. Does that mean Mexico supports Al-Qaeda? And the dog shadows were obviously photoshopped by someone on the internet- there was nothing wrong with the original picture.

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## Grand Historian

漢奸

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## Genesis

Wholegrain said:


> You seriously fell for this BS? I can troll by hanging a Mexican flag right next to an Al Qaeda flag, and have someone bow down to both of them. Does that mean Mexico supports Al-Qaeda? And the dog shadows were obviously photoshopped by someone on the internet- there was nothing wrong with the original picture.




I'm not saying HK wants to be Japanese, but the their separatist attitude is undermining Chinese influence and interests. 

I'm simply saying China will soon be a center of global politics, HK will never be that, not even a regional one. Current Chinese political elite has no HK borne people, so either get with the program, or remain like Singapore, 98% of the people don't even know where it is.


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## TruthSeeker

Genesis said:


> Go to China early establish yourself, maybe there could be a spot for you in the new world power, get there too late, well *there has never been a British borne US president*, just saying.



The US Constitution restricts the Presidency to "native born" citizens. So a "British born" person could not become the US President unless, or until, there is a Constitutional Amendment to remove the "native born" requirement.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Grand Historian said:


> 漢奸



I know you were born in Taiwan, but do you agree that both KMT and DPP have no backbone, and CPC is the only hope for China?


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## TruthSeeker

[quote="ChineseTiger1986, post: 5154911, member: 23439"CPC is the only hope for China?[/quote]

The CPC is totally corrupt now in the 21st century. If the CPC ever had the common man's welfare at heart, which I totally doubt, it does not even make the pretension of such values today. The CPC is just like any other oligarchy exploiting a vast majority of subjugated peons for its own aggrandizement.


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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I know you were born in Taiwan, but do you agree that both KMT and DPP have no backbone, and CPC is the only hope for China?



CPC, is no longer a ideology party, it is just like the imperial governments of the past.

It is not the communist government of China it is THE Government of China. The spread Chinese agenda, not Communist agenda.

Taiwan has no economy, no military or anything really, what do you want them to do. At 20,000 nominal, we will soon reach that that point in no more than 15 years, we are 2-4 years away from being the half way point and another decade or so to double.

At 1% growth, Taiwan's Per capita won't go over to developed during this period, but our coastal areas will.

So better jump on the band wagon now, cause when it's full, it's full.

@*TruthSeeker*

 For someone with the name truthseeker you sure don't like the truth. CPC is not a elite group giving power one generation to the next, it is a party made up of the people of China. The best and smartest go to the top. 

Please don't be like that gambit idiot, bring up Xi's daughter as the next president, or something. Guess what, if she did she would deserve it, except she wouldn't while the US already had father son pairings, and India was ruled by one family for god knows how long. Do you know who the Korean president's father is? The Thai president's brother is? The Bush of Japan, David Camoron's background, or the US senators, governors, congress background? Also the Canadian political elite. 

IF you must then blame god for making most people not as smart or hardworking as some, it's not Xi's fault that he can qualify for Qinghua based on merit, I know that because at that time only he was allowed to go after exams, and not the others who's fathers had higher or equal positions. You can also tell based on the way he conducts himself and speeches.

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## Fsjal

It's disgusting that I looked at the photos.

Honestly, what is up with those Hong Konger fools. I would burn that shrine to hell, a place it belongs.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dnt tell me that's in HK?


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## terranMarine

Whether it's in HK or not, the one who is behind this is most likely a Japanese. Check out the site and its facebook page.
香港靖国神社崇敬奉賛会
香港靖國神社崇敬奉贊會 | Facebook

Look at this photo
https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1510976_641058599287008_1500049200_n.jpg



terranMarine said:


> Whether it's in HK or not, the one who is behind this is most likely a Japanese. Check out the site and its facebook page.
> 香港靖国神社崇敬奉賛会
> 香港靖國神社崇敬奉贊會 | Facebook
> 
> On the Facebook page there's a funny photo of a Korean Comfort Woman statue insinuating they were prostitutes to the White men.

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## Obambam

Japan is the only country in the world, where headless beings are considered to be a norm. No wonder they tried to make everyone one of them during the world war.


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## northeast

This shrine will be torn apart if it's built in china or korea.Anyway it's not a surprise it's built in Hongkong.Pinoys even built a statue to praise some Japanese Kamikaze pilots.


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## Wholegrain

Grand Historian said:


> 漢奸



People of many different ethnicities live in Hong Kong. I doubt you could call this person that.


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## terranMarine

Wholegrain said:


> People of many different ethnicities live in Hong Kong. I doubt you could call this person that.



Indeed, there are quite a number of Japanese in HK, if you browse that Facebook page you might get the idea that person who set up that account also have a thing against South Koreans.


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## northeast

terranMarine said:


> Indeed, there are quite a number of Japanese in HK, if you browse that Facebook page you might get the idea that person who set up that account also have a thing against South Koreans.


I am sure there are more japanese in china and SK.The point is unlike in NE Asia，not so many hongkong people cared about nationalism thingies，They are just couldn't be more careless about such boring things.Money is the center of all things.


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## Grand Historian

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I know you were born in Taiwan, but do you agree that both KMT and DPP have no backbone, and CPC is the only hope for China?


I wasn't born in Taiwan however I did spent part of my childhood there.

Too me the KMT seems to fight an imaginary enemy of the past while trying to blame the CCP for everything evil(at least my dad grew up that way),while the DPP essentially is Hokkien supremacy,Japanese worshiping,and the rare DPP claims that they are not Han.

They are both incredibly petty,more concerned about the good of their party then the island of Taiwan or the future of the Taiwanese people.

What a shame that neither of the two parties pursue in protecting Chinese islands and seas ie the Diaoyutai etc.

The problem with the CCP is that there is too much corruption and like Taiwan's government they promote minority interests above the majority Han.

For me the CCP is the less of the evils,they did promote literacy rates and made China what is is today despite some setbacks.

As for the Japanese,they should sincerely apologize for the atrocities of their ancestors before they face heaven's wrath.

My blood boils when I see right wing propaganda such as the fake of Nanking,comfort women were paid,or that the Chinese welcomed the invaders into our soil.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Grand Historian said:


> I wasn't born in Taiwan however I did spent part of my childhood there.
> 
> Too me the KMT seems to fight an imaginary enemy of the past while trying to blame the CCP for everything evil(at least my dad grew up that way),while the DPP essentially is Hokkien supremacy,Japanese worshiping,and the rare DPP claims that they are not Han.
> 
> They are both incredibly petty,more concerned about the good of their party then the island of Taiwan or the future of the Taiwanese people.
> 
> What a shame that neither of the two parties pursue in protecting Chinese islands and seas ie the Diaoyutai etc.
> 
> The problem with the CCP is that there is too much corruption and like Taiwan's government they promote minority interests above the majority Han.
> 
> For me the CCP is the less of the evils,they did promote literacy rates and made China what is is today despite some setbacks.
> 
> As for the Japanese,they should sincerely apologize for the atrocities of their ancestors before they face heaven's wrath.
> 
> My blood boils when I see right wing propaganda such as the fake of Nanking,comfort women were paid,or that the Chinese welcomed the invaders into our soil.



CPC is not perfect, that's why they need to fight the corruption seriously, it is not just saving China, but also saving themselves.

But at least China is now united and fully industrialized, and these credits should go to CPC. Without them, China will be half the size and she won't have a strategic industry as the West will love to keep China being split and dependent to them forever.

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## Fsjal

northeast said:


> Pinoys even built a statue to praise some Japanese Kamikaze pilots.


Tell me the location and I'll tear it down, just like how America torn down Japan.


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## northeast

Fsjal said:


> Tell me the location and I'll tear it down, just like how America torn down Japan.


It's in mabalacat air field.Good luck with you.Oh，and don't forget take some pictures when you tear it down.


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## jhungary

Honestly, I see no reason why anyone should oppose to memorial of the Kamikaze. Those are regular folks, pilot, they use themselves as a bomb to hit the enemy. Unless they kamikaze civilian ship or civilian structure, they had not committed any war crime.

That's the same category with any Chinese Communist soldier who strap themselves with explosive and destroy a UN CP. should they not be remembered?

The person behind the kamikaze problem, however, is a different story


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## northeast

jhungary said:


> Honestly, I see no reason why anyone should oppose to memorial of the Kamikaze. Those are regular folks, pilot, they use themselves as a bomb to hit the enemy. Unless they kamikaze civilian ship or civilian structure, they had not committed any war crime.
> 
> That's the same category with any Chinese Communist soldier who strap themselves with explosive and destroy a UN CP. should they not be remembered?
> 
> The person behind the kamikaze problem, however, is a different story


How about building some NAZI Waffen-
SS memorial statues in Britain or US？People will be angry for sure.even some small things like prince harry wearing a nazi costume would become a embrassing news in Great Britain.How stupid can you be？do you even have a brain？OMG.

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## jhungary

northeast said:


> How about building some NAZI waffen SS memorial statues in britain or US？even some small things like prince harry wearing a nazi costume would become a embrassing news.How stupid can you be？do you even have a brain？OMG.



Dude, those are waffen SS. I am talking about Kamikaze pilot, tell me, what war crime did they committed by crashing their plane to their enemy? They committed crime by fighting a war?

Of all the Japanese Branch, they are the least likely to committee any war crime, cause 1 mission and your dead

Or are you simply saying they committed a crime by simply just being Japanese? LOL


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## Capt P.H Young

jhungary said:


> Honestly, I see no reason why anyone should oppose to memorial of the Kamikaze. Those are regular folks, pilot, they use themselves as a bomb to hit the enemy. Unless they kamikaze civilian ship or civilian structure, they had not committed any war crime.
> 
> That's the same category with any Chinese Communist soldier who strap themselves with explosive and destroy a UN CP. should they not be remembered?
> 
> The person behind the kamikaze problem, however, is a different story


Easy to say by somebody who has never been affected by Japanese atrocity committed upon their relatives- simply for being captured-as my Dads brothers were. Oppose Japanese WW2 Triumphal bullshit EVERYWHERE.


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## northeast

jhungary said:


> Dude, those are waffen SS. I am talking about Kamikaze pilot, tell me, what war crime did they committed by crashing their plane to their enemy? They committed crime by fighting a war?
> 
> Of all the Japanese Branch, they are the least likely to committee any war crime, cause 1 mission and your dead


Well，Are you telling me those japanese soldiers treat pinoys so good and never committee any war crime to pinoys？How do you know that？Anyway，it's pinoys' business，if they are OK with that，I don't have any problem.

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## jhungary

Capt P.H Young said:


> Easy to say by somebody who has never been affected by Japanese atrocity committed upon their relatives- simply for being captured-as my Dads brothers were. Oppose Japanese WW2 Triumphal bullshit EVERYWHERE.



Contrary to what you think, my grand dad fought the Jap before US enter the war as an AVG pilot

His brother was a navy sailor who got sunk by one of those Kamikaze, my mother whole family was killed by the Japanese soldier before she had to flee china to Vietnam

You on the contrary, had you served in any war? Do you know how much it takes for anyone, friends and enemies alike, to die for its course?

I saw dude that would kill you by blowing you and himself up just for the clause when I was in Iraq. You respect those people or you will be the next to go



northeast said:


> Well，Are you telling me those japanese soldiers treat pinoys so good and never committee any war crime to pinoys？How do you know that？Anyway，it's pinoys' business，if they are OK with that，I don't have any problem.



Lol so on the other hand you know those kamikaze pilot were all bad people before the kill themselves in a fight?

Dude, there are no good and bad in battlefield, only friends and enemy. Well but who am I talking to? This is something you will never understand


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## Capt P.H Young

jhungary said:


> Contrary to what you think, my grand dad fought the Jap before US enter the war as an AVG pilot
> 
> His brother was a navy sailor who got sunk by one of those Kamikaze, my mother whole family was killed by the Japanese soldier before she had to flee china to Vietnam
> 
> You on the contrary, had you served in any war? Do you know how much it takes for anyone, friends and enemies alike, to die for its course?
> 
> I saw dude that would kill you by blowing you and himself up just for the clause when I was in Iraq. You respect those people or you will be the next to go
> 
> 
> 
> Lol so on the other hand you know those kamikaze pilot were all bad people before the kill themselves in a fight?
> 
> Dude, there are no good and bad in battlefield, only friends and enemy. We'll but who am I saying to? This is something you will never understand


'You on the contrary, had you served in any war'
Yes. Have you?


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## jhungary

Capt P.H Young said:


> 'You on the contrary, had you served in any war'
> Yes. Have you?



2 tour in the Middle East

Spend 23 months over there, where you?


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## jhungary

Capt P.H Young said:


> 'You on the contrary, had you served in any war'
> Yes. Have you?



As I said, I served in Iraq and Afghanistan, 1 tour each, first as an infantry platoon commander on ground with the 3d infantry division, and as Battalion S-2 with element of 82nd Airborne Division in Afghanistan

My Brother served in the original gulf war as a USAF maintenance chief

My cousin just return from a pirate tour in the gulf of Aden with the USN

My father and his brother were both drafted to serve in the Vietnam War while my father ended up as a Navy Corpsman with the Pleiku Evac hospital and my uncle was KIA with the 1st Cav

I am asking, where you served


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## Capt P.H Young

jhungary said:


> 2 tour in the Middle East
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jhungary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2 tour in the Middle East
> 
> Spend 23 months over there, where you?
> 
> 
> 
> Several war Zones in 29 years Sea Service, last one Persian Gulf as a Senior Officer 1990-91. Fuel Transport. My ship was last to clear Iraq (in a hurry) when Saddam invaded Kuwait.
Click to expand...


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## jhungary

Capt P.H Young said:


> ...



Lol, not talking about combat zone, I mean war, theatre of operation.

Have you served in Falklands?


----------



## Capt P.H Young

jhungary said:


> Lol, not talking about combat zone, I mean war, theatre of operation.
> 
> Have you served in Falklands?


You asked me if I had served in a war Zone, to which the answer is 'yes' several- some not even anything to do with us. My ship was in the Falklands after the Argentine surrender. But I am not going to go into this 'My relatives did more than your relatives' argument or what I did. Enough of my Family were killed/injured/captured in WW1 and WW2/ Korea to have us affected by it (as were many families in the UK to this day), so I do know 'what it is like', contrary to your comment. I am not saying that the Japanese individuals were evil. But the Regime they fought under was.


----------



## jhungary

Capt P.H Young said:


> You asked me if I had served in a war Zone, to which the answer is 'yes' several- some not even anything to do with us. My ship was in the Falklands after the Argentine surrender. But I am not going to go into this 'My relatives did more than your relatives' argument or what I did. Enough of my Family were killed/injured/captured in WW1 and WW2/ Korea to have us affected by it (as were many families in the UK to this day), so I do know 'what it is like', contrary to your comment. I am not saying that the Japanese individuals were evil. But the Regime they fought under was.



Dude, I did not ask have you served under any way zone, I asked had you served in any war

Take your falkland experience as an example, it would still be a war zone but there are no hostility remained in it, does that mean you have been to war?

The problem is what you fail to see how people acts under constant fighting. Dude, let me ask you, how much you would take on if somebody is shooting at you?

In War, it's really important to understand that people you are killing, or people who trying to kill you is just doing their job. They follow a different course and now we met down the barrel of the gun.

In war, you fought for your idea, and you follow that conviction into killing another human being, not because you simply hate the otherside

This is the basic respect you need to pay when you are fighting a war, my grand father was a B-17 Nav after he got out of AVG and got shot down 3 times over Germany, he lost 17 crew in the process. You know what he said about the German army? They are doing their job, we do our, that's how's we cross path. He still have contact with some German soldier during WW2 until his death in 1980

Thats their job to hunt him down, judging by he escaped all 3 times they are not doing a good job about it.

That's basic respect you got to pay, I had enough of people shot at me when I was in Iraq, does that mean I have to hate all Iraqi or Muslim in this sense? They believe we are evil, that's why they fight us, we believe they are evil, that's why we fight them. In normal circumstance, I will probably never met any of them in my whole life

The kamikaze pilot just doing their job, and the pure sene of duty calling them for self sacrifices is something we should respect, regardless of which side they fought, the pure conviction that they pledge to their country, their government deserve our respect. In the same matter, anyone who are willing to die for their own clause also deserve our respect, it does not distract anything simply because we are taking a different side

If you fail to see this, then it's probably better for you to stay out of any conflict.


----------



## Capt P.H Young

jhungary said:


> Dude, I did not ask have you served under any way zone, I asked had you served in any war
> 
> Take your falkland experience as an example, it would still be a war zone but there are no hostility remained in it, does that mean you have been to war?
> 
> The problem is what you fail to see how people acts under constant fighting. Dude, let me ask you, how much you would take on if somebody is shooting at you?
> 
> In War, it's really important to understand that people you are killing, or people who trying to kill you is just doing their job. They follow a different course and now we met down the barrel of the gun.
> 
> In war, you fought for your idea, and you follow that conviction into killing another human being, not because you simply hate the otherside
> 
> This is the basic respect you need to pay when you are fighting a war, my grand father was a B-17 Nav after he got out of AVG and got shot down 3 times over Germany, he lost 17 crew in the process. You know what he said about the German army? They are doing their job, we do our, that's how's we cross path. He still have contact with some German soldier during WW2 until his death in 1980
> 
> Thats their job to hunt him down, judging by he escaped all 3 times they are not doing a good job about it.
> 
> That's basic respect you got to pay, I had enough of people shot at me when I was in Iraq, does that mean I have to hate all Iraqi or Muslim in this sense? They believe we are evil, that's why they fight us, we believe they are evil, that's why we fight them. In normal circumstance, I will probably never met any of them in my whole life
> 
> The kamikaze pilot just doing their job, and the pure sene of duty calling them for self sacrifices is something we should respect, regardless of which side they fought, the pure conviction that they pledge to their country, their government deserve our respect. In the same matter, anyone who are willing to die for their own clause also deserve our respect, it does not distract anything simply because we are taking a different side
> 
> If you fail to see this, then it's probably better for you to stay out of any conflict.


At 61 years old, I doubt they would allow me to take part anyway.


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## jhungary

Capt P.H Young said:


> At 61 years old, I doubt they would allow me to take part anyway.



Don't be so sure, Iceal Hambleton got shot down in North Vietnam at age 53.5 and survived 11 days evading capture and successfully retrieved by USN special force, everything is possible


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## Mr Second

Why did they put the Japs and KMT's flag together?


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## northeast

Mr Second said:


> Why did they put the Japs and KMT's flag together?


I guess they just want to express their hatred about mainland china and CCP,so they don't really care about what did they put,whether it's a yasukuni shrine or KMT or British Colonism or whatsoever,it doesn't matter.


----------



## xunzi

jhungary said:


> Dude, those are waffen SS. I am talking about Kamikaze pilot, tell me, what war crime did they committed by crashing their plane to their enemy? They committed crime by fighting a war?
> 
> Of all the Japanese Branch, they are the least likely to committee any war crime, cause 1 mission and your dead
> 
> Or are you simply saying they committed a crime by simply just being Japanese? LOL


LOL What a dumbass comment. These are the Imperial Japanese pilots that support the invasion of their motherland directly or indirectly. Enemy? Who the **** start the war?

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## jhungary

xunzi said:


> LOL What a dumbass comment. These are the Imperial Japanese pilots that support the invasion of their motherland directly or indirectly. Enemy? Who the **** start the war?



So you are saying they are wrong simply because they are Japanese and Japanese started the war. *Bravo*


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## Genesis

jhungary said:


> So you are saying they are wrong simply because they are Japanese and Japanese started the war. *Bravo*



You do realize the shrines' high profile "people" were convicted war criminals and human experimental units, like unit 731. Also the units that participated in massacring Chinese civilians. The Japanese don't have a special unit like the Nazies, but they were carried out just the same. 

China has always been fine with Japanese remembering those soldiers, even the extreme cases, it can be said it was done by lesser man and under orders. 

You do know when the issue started right, right around the time Japanese started to worship CONVICTED WAR CRIMINALS. 

It be like building a statue to commemorate Goering or Schörner.


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## jhungary

Genesis said:


> You do realize the shrines' high profile "people" were convicted war criminals and human experimental units, like unit 731. Also the units that participated in massacring Chinese civilians. The Japanese don't have a special unit like the Nazies, but they were carried out just the same.
> 
> China has always been fine with Japanese remembering those soldiers, even the extreme cases, it can be said it was done by lesser man and under orders.
> 
> You do know when the issue started right, right around the time Japanese started to worship CONVICTED WAR CRIMINALS.
> 
> It be like building a statue to commemorate Goering or Schörner.



Yeah, but I was not talking about the shrine, I am talking about kamikaze pilot.

Honestly, do you think they did anything wrong except fighting a war and die for it?

I have no comment on the shrine

Please do read my post carefully again


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## shuttler

jhungary said:


> Yeah, but I was not talking about the shrine, I am talking about kamikaze pilot.
> 
> Honestly, do you think they did anything wrong except fighting a war and die for it?
> 
> I have no comment on the shrine
> 
> Please do read my post carefully again



if you are not commenting on the war criminal shrine then all of your comments are off topic and should be deleted! WTF!


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## jhungary

shuttler said:


> if you are not commenting on the war criminal shrine then all of your comments are off topic and should be deleted! WTF!



Well lol how to determine the term "war criminal" directly related to the idea of " war criminal shrine" so it's not off topic dude

By the way, the topic is on Yasukuni shrine, they don't just worship war criminal you know?


----------



## Capt P.H Young

jhungary said:


> Don't be so sure, Iceal Hambleton got shot down in North Vietnam at age 53.5 and survived 11 days evading capture and successfully retrieved by USN special force, everything is possible


Alas I am qualified to drive big ships but not Airplanes..  and my eyesight is pretty poor these days so won't get through the medical.


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## bolo

As long as they allow us to buld memorials and shrines for the Nazis and the people responsible for dropping the A bomb, than I'm ok with the Yaku shrine.


----------



## Snomannen

That's what they want, letting people like OP to spread their tiny jokes around.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KirovAirship said:


> That's what they want, letting people like OP to spread their tiny jokes around.



This kind of "joke" is not funny at all, just imagine if someone doing a Nazi Salute to a Jew.


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## jhungary

Capt P.H Young said:


> Alas I am qualified to drive big ships but not Airplanes..  and my eyesight is pretty poor these days so won't get through the medical.



Lol.whatever...

But when shit hits the fan, bullet don't discriminate whether or not you are 20 or 65...


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Well lol how to determine the term "war criminal" directly related to the idea of " war criminal shrine" so it's not off topic dude
> 
> By the way, the topic is on Yasukuni shrine, they don't just worship war criminal you know?



That's why the Chinese actually compromised to remove the "A Class War Criminals" from the shrine, but the Japanese refused.


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## jhungary

xunzi said:


> Are you dumb? I'm not saying they are wrong. I am saying to you that non-Japanese worshiping and celebrating these Kamikaze pilots death are wrong for the simple fact that these pilots are fighting for a wrong cause and that cause is the Japanese invasion and it was them who started the war. Next time, you better grow a fucking brain when responding to me.


 
Dude, first of all, the personal attack is uncalled for.

Secondly, soldier fight for their country, not like this is where they go on their own. A war is not started by average Japanese, but rather japanese government and their leadership. You are hating those average Japanese simply you hate their government, whom started the war, then how between what i said and what you think??

Many soldier from the opposite side respect what the other side do, and acknowledge that they do not start a war, they are just doing their job. I will respect anyone who are willing to die for their country, regardless of what origin they are, I respect the same amount to Chinese Soldier die for China, American soldier dies for America, British Soldier die for Britanna. And i respect the same amount to those japanese soldier who die for japan.

If you do not understand this, then it looks like you are the one needed to grow a brain before commenting. A probably a pair to actual have a backbone to die for your country first, then you can come back and talk to me


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## Tractor

Grow a brain, a common chinese saying used by and should be used for those one who want to teach others.


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## Snomannen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This kind of "joke" is not funny at all, just imagine if someone doing a Nazi Salute to a Jew.



They are trolling around, or they are just some so-called HKer who try to defame China. No one should consider such "joke" as a real matter and all we need to do is to ignore them (just like that unbelievable stupid "Manchurian independence website" , since letting people spreading their "joke" around on the internet is what their true purpose is.

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## BoQ77

Vietnam, ASEAN, India ... have no problem to work well with nowaday Japanese people and companies.
The Imperial Japan is the past ( nearly 70 years last ). 

If we keep the bad memories, US, French, Korean, Thai, Khmer, Australian, Japanese, Chinese, British ... all is enemy.

But the Past should be faded as newly cooperative relations would come to replace it.


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## Edison Chen

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam, ASEAN, India ... have no problem to work well with nowaday Japanese people and companies.
> The Imperial Japan is the past ( nearly 70 years last ).
> 
> If we keep the bad memories, US, French, Korean, Thai, Khmer, Australian, Japanese, Chinese, British ... all is enemy.
> 
> But the Past should be faded as newly cooperative relations would come to replace it.



Of course, business goes very well, like Abe himself said, just like Britain and Germany before WW1, who are very close in economy, still went for a world war. Japan is on a recession trend for the past couple of decades since the middle 1980s, however China's economy is on the rise with much more energy demand. When the old order was gone, the new order is needed. And in next 2-3 decades China is exactly the only one who can establish the new order of East Asia and your ASEAN. It's a natural process, very clearly predictable.

Both China and Japan have started the propaganda campaign against each other, and superficially it seems to be the history problem, actually most likely it is associated with East China Sea resources and other interest. China needs an excuse to break US-Japan blockade, to get more resources for domestic consumption, and also to teach you Southeast Asians a lesson about how to give up the struggle. You know 杀鸡儆猴？And as for Japan, it is nowhere to hide, ready for ELIMINATION.


----------



## Fattyacids

TruthSeeker said:


> The CPC is totally corrupt now in the 21st century. If the CPC ever had the common man's welfare at heart, which I totally doubt, it does not even make the pretension of such values today. The CPC is just like any other oligarchy exploiting a vast majority of subjugated peons for its own aggrandizement.



No country is more corrupt than those of South Asia and Mid East, they've been the shit hole of the world since 19th century. Life is so miserable, the people had to take refuge in the US just to be safe and not get killed. Such is the failure of those corrupt and incompetent government.


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## BoQ77

Edison Chen said:


> Of course, business goes very well, like Abe himself said, just like Britain and Germany before WW1, who are very close in economy, still went for a world war. Japan is on a recession trend for the past couple of decades since the middle 1980s, however China's economy is on the rise with much more energy demand. When the old order was gone, the new order is needed. And in next 2-3 decades China is exactly the only one who can establish the new order of East Asia and your ASEAN. It's a natural process, very clearly predictable.
> 
> Both China and Japan have started the propaganda campaign against each other, and superficially it seems to be the history problem, actually most likely it is associated with East China Sea resources and other interest. China needs an excuse to break US-Japan blockade, to get more resources for domestic consumption, and also to teach you Southeast Asians a lesson about how to give up the struggle. You know 杀鸡儆猴？And as for Japan, it is nowhere to hide, ready for ELIMINATION.



Do you mean the war between China and Japan is unavoidable ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Do you mean the war between China and Japan is unavoidable ?



The decision is up to Japan, if they stop this madness right now, then there will be no war between China and Japan.


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## Edison Chen

BoQ77 said:


> Do you mean the war between China and Japan is unavoidable ?



I‘m not sure. The path on which China rise is quite different from that of Japan. 

Abe already knew the consequences, it will be a destructive strike ever since, because NK, SK, US, Russia will also engage. And I strongly recommend both sides against the war, for descendants' sake.


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## terranMarine

Who knows what will happen if Japan keeps on with its current path. Spreading China threat, increasing military buildup, more war criminal worships. Maybe some war might occur after few decades. What Abe is doing is playing a dangerous game angering NK, SK and China.


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## xunzi

jhungary said:


> Dude, first of all, the personal attack is uncalled for.
> 
> Secondly, soldier fight for their country, not like this is where they go on their own. A war is not started by average Japanese, but rather japanese government and their leadership. You are hating those average Japanese simply you hate their government, whom started the war, then how between what i said and what you think??
> 
> Many soldier from the opposite side respect what the other side do, and acknowledge that they do not start a war, they are just doing their job. I will respect anyone who are willing to die for their country, regardless of what origin they are, I respect the same amount to Chinese Soldier die for China, American soldier dies for America, British Soldier die for Britanna. And i respect the same amount to those japanese soldier who die for japan.
> 
> If you do not understand this, then it looks like you are the one needed to grow a brain before commenting. A probably a pair to actual have a backbone to die for your country first, then you can come back and talk to me


You still don't get it, do you? The point here is not about hating them. The POINT is you don't worship or celebrate about them. Do you fucking understand this simple thinking? Should we celebrate the luftwaffe, the SS, the the gestapo, or the red guard? After all, they are just doing their job and to protect the security of their country. Why the **** I can't wear a SS uniform without having Jews cocking my head? Think about that for a second and come back when you grow a brain. LOL

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## jhungary

xunzi said:


> You still don't get it, do you? The point here is not about hating them. The POINT is you don't worship or celebrate about them. Do you fucking understand this simple thinking? Should we celebrate the luftwaffe, the SS, the the gestapo, or the red guard? After all, they are just doing their job and to protect the security of their country. Why the **** I can't wear a SS uniform without having Jews cocking my head? Think about that for a second and come back when you grow a brain. LOL


 
Again, if you don't stop with the F Bomb, someone will force you off the forum. I am ok with you expressing yourselve in this forum, but F this and F that?? You say **** will not make your point any more correct than it already has

And you are the one who still don't understand. Nobody is saying we should worship everything on the other side of the pond. Normal soldier would respect each other. Even the height of combat this respect is recipical. IN WW2, a Japanese ship sailor salute the captain of a US Ship after the Japanese Battleship sunk the tiny frigate that fought against them during battle off samar. The Indian General blown his leg off from a land mind to personal met the brave Pakistani Captain that his 140 troop hold off the 2000 Indian and bangadesh troop for 3 months.

Should there be any statue for Luftwaffe Pilot for their death and sacifice? You bet, infact there are some in north of France that dedicated to all service pilot (French, UK, US, and *GERMANY that lose their life during WW2)*. But it would be a no to sensitive issue for the SS and Gestapo as both committed war crime. Now i ask you, exactly what kind of war crime did the Kamikaze Pilot committed during the whole war??

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## JSCh

Why would anyone want to modify history?

History is modified or twisted to serve contemporary political aims.

Why is it so hard for the Japanese prime minister to honor their war death soldier in a way that is acceptable? Why? As a career/seasoned politician, wouldn't they understand the duty of their office and the consequence of their action? 

Why would the Japanese right winger risk Japanese national interest despite almost universal condemnation?

Is it wise? Is it right? Is it really necessary for them to do it?


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## BoQ77

Different culture, is it ?

Remember China called their attack to Vietnam in 1979 as defensive counter attack.
When ever Vietnam attacked China, so why "counter attack" ?

Japan has no right to attack, only defend, ... but what if they apply the term "defensive counter attack" as China did ?
Big nations always drive the words as their will.

Sorry to say that. So don't be surprise to observe any movements.
Somewhere , skin head guys are saluting SS flag ...


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## Roybot

Can someone explain why is there so much controversy associated with Yasukuni Shrine? Shouldn't Japan honour their soldiers?


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## Pakchina

China should have a shrine honouring Tepco owners for the nuclear disaster of 2011. Shizo Abe's grandfather could be in this shrine being given that his grandfather is a War criminal, its not a surprise that his grandson is following his footstep. What would the white western racists say if there is an equivalent shrine in Germany honouring Hitler, Rommel and the likes? Japan back by the US should also consider a worldwide shrine honoring all the war crimnals that Japan, Germany and now the US have produced. We could see people honoring the spirits of Hitler, Rommel, Unit 731 Japanese Doctors and Executors and later perhaps the actual US........

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## haidian

*Shenzhen Overtakes Hong Kong as Third Busiest Container Port*
By Rachel Butt January 16, 2014


> China’s Shenzhen surpassed Hong Kong to become the world’s third-busiest container port for the first time last year, as a strike diverted ships away from the former British colony.
> 
> Terminals in Shenzhen, in Guangdong province, handled 23.3 million twenty-foot equivalent containers last year, outpacing Hong Kong’s 22.3 million in the same period, data from the Transport Commission of Shenzhen Municipality and Hong Kong Port Development Council show.
> 
> Port workers at billionaire Li Ka-shing’s Hongkong International Terminals Ltd. went on a 40-day strike in late March last year, demanding higher wages. Evergreen Marine Corp. Taiwan Ltd. and Japan’s Mitsui OSK Lines Ltd. were among shipping lines that diverted vessels to other ports.
> 
> Shanghai and Singapore remain the world’s two biggest container ports.


Shenzhen Overtakes Hong Kong as Third Busiest Container Port - Businessweek

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## haidian

1,Shanghai 
2.Singapore
3.Shenzhen
4.Hong Kong

5. Busan
6.Ningbo
7.Guangzhou
8.Qingdao
9.Dubai
10.Tianjin

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## JSCh

*New NHK chief: ‘comfort women’ only wrong per ‘today’s morality’; programming must push Japan’s territorial stances*
Kyodo, Jan 25, 2014

*The new chairman of NHK said Saturday that its programming for foreign audiences should “state Japan’s positions in no uncertain terms” on territorial disputes with China and South Korea, while defending the nation’s use of wartime “comfort women” and dismissing press freedom concerns about the new state secrets law.*

“When the government is saying, ‘Right,’ we can’t say, ‘Left.’ International broadcasting has such a (propagandist) nuance,” Katsuto Momii told a news conference held to mark the start of his three-year stint at the public broadcaster.

*Momii, who is rumored to have been the preferred choice of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe as NHK’s top official, also made controversial remarks on Japan’s use of the euphemistically titled “comfort women” and the recently enacted secrecy law.*

NHK’s programming “shouldn’t be far removed from (the stance of) the Japanese government,” he said, adding that on sovereignty disputes with China over the Senkaku Islands and South Korea over the Takeshima islets, “it is natural to state Japan’s positions in no uncertain terms.”

Asked about the women who were forced to provide sex to Imperial Japanese soldiers before and during World War II, *Momii said such an institution existed in “every country” and that it is only considered wrong based on “today’s morality.”*

“Things are complicated because South Korea says Japan was the only country that forcibly recruited (comfort women),” Momii, a former president of Nihon Unisys Ltd. and vice president of trading house Mitsui & Co., said, noting he was only stating his personal view.

On possible compensation to the women, as called for by South Korea, he said the matter was fully settled when the two countries signed a treaty in 1965 normalizing bilateral ties.

Meanwhile, Momii dismissed concern about freedom of the press in connection with the state secrecy law, which will impose stricter penalties on leakers of information deemed to be “special secrets” in such areas as counterterrorism and defense.

“Now that (the bill) has been passed, there is no point in questioning it. We will run (a relevant program) if that is necessary,” he said. “It would be a problem if the government’s purpose (of the law) is what the public is worried about. But I doubt that is the purpose.”

On Abe’s controversial recent visit to the war-linked Yasukuni Shrine, which infuriated China and South Korea because the site honors Class-A war criminals alongside the nation’s war dead, Momii said NHK is in no position to say whether the visit was “good or bad.”

“He went there with his own conviction as prime minister. . . . In reporting, NHK would just say that the prime minister visited Yasukuni,” Momii said.

New NHK chief: 'comfort women' only wrong per 'today's morality'; programming must push Japan's territorial stances | The Japan Times


----------



## JSCh

*Japan NHK head's 'comfort women' remark stirs controversy*

* 
AFP | Tokyo 

January 26, 2014* Last Updated at 10:00 IST

The newly appointed head of Japan's public broadcaster NHK has stirred controversy by saying the system of forcibly drafting women into military brothels during World War II was "common in any country at war".

*Katsuto Momii's comment yesterday came after popular Osaka mayor Toru Hashimoto prompted global outrage last year by suggesting that the so-called "comfort women" served a "necessary" role by keeping battle-stressed soldiers in check. *

Up to 200,000 women from Korea, China, the Philippines and elsewhere were forced into brothels catering to the Japanese military in territories occupied by Japan during WWII, according to many mainstream historians.

*The military brothel system was "common in any country at war", Momii told his first news conference as NHK chairman on Saturday. *

*"Can we say there were none in Germany or France? It was everywhere in Europe," he said, according to reports. *

Noting that this was his personal view, Momii said the comfort women issue has been "complicated because South Korea says Japan was the only country that forcibly recruited (women)".

The politically charged issue of comfort women has stoked regional tensions, with South Korea and China insisting that Japan must face up to its World War II-era sexual enslavement of women from across occupied Asia.

In a landmark 1993 statement, then chief Japanese government spokesman Yohei Kono apologised to former comfort women and acknowledged Japan's role in causing their suffering.

*But in remarks in 2007 that triggered a region-wide uproar, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who also served as premier then, said there was no evidence that Japan directly forced women to work as sex slaves. *

Momii, 70, who previously served as a vice chairman of trading house Mitsui, is rumoured to have been Abe's preferred choice as NHK chairman, Kyodo news agency said.

Japan NHK head's 'comfort women' remark stirs controversy | Business Standard


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## jhungary

Roybot said:


> Can someone explain why is there so much controversy associated with Yasukuni Shrine? Shouldn't Japan honour their soldiers?



The shrine was put to honor the 10 dead convicted war criminal of imperial Japanese army during WW2

While most of those war crime were committed in China, general Chinese view is the leader whom visit throat shrine are also glorify those war criminal, in a way give a positive/reaffirming aspect to what they have done during ww2

Especially when Japan never actually repent from the war...


----------



## Roybot

jhungary said:


> The shrine was put to honor the 10 dead convicted war criminal of imperial Japanese army during WW2
> 
> While most of those war crime were committed in China, general Chinese view is the leader whom visit throat shrine are also glorify those war criminal, in a way give a positive/reaffirming aspect to what they have done during ww2
> 
> Especially when Japan never actually repent from the war...



Well thats not true. Wikipedia tells me the shrine was opened in 1869, so its not just about the world war II.


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## jhungary

Roybot said:


> Well thats not true. Wikipedia tells me the shrine was opened in 1869, so its not just about the world war II.



Lol the shrine were built in 1869, but they hold 10 class A WW2 war criminal in it, and some of the resting place it hold had done thing to China during opium war or something like that, not sure...it was on top of my head


----------



## senheiser



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## shuttler

HK reporters are the biggest pussies
Their expertise is to answer calls from the us and british masters

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## Chinese-Dragon

shuttler said:


> HK reporters are the biggest pussies
> Their expertise is to answer calls from the us and british masters



You are right. 

And the worst is the Apple Daily.

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## shuttler

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You are right.
> And the worst is the Apple Daily.



AD is notorious

Look at these 2 汉奸 traitors:

















Above credits: i.ssimg.cn/guancha.cn

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## BoQ77

*Beijing upset after Martin Lee and Anson Chan meet Joe Biden at the White House*
PUBLISHED : Monday, 07 April, 2014, 4:54am
UPDATED : Monday, 07 April, 2014, 4:54am
Johnny Tam johnny.tam@scmp.com






US Vice President Joe Biden meets Anson Chan and Martin Lee at the White House.
Beijing's Foreign Ministry representative in Hong Kong has accused the United States of "meddling" in the city's internal affairs and warned Washington not to hamper Sino-US relations after US Vice-President Joe Biden met two heavyweight pan-democrats from Hong Kong.

Anson Chan Fang On-sang, the former chief secretary and the convenor of pro-democracy group Hong Kong 2020, and Martin Lee Chu-ming, founding chairman of Hong Kong's Democratic Party, met the US politician on Friday.

They told him that the central government has been "tightening its controls" over the city and voiced fears that only candidates "hand-picked" by Beijing would be allowed to run in the 2017 chief executive election.

In the question-and-answer format on the website of the Office of the Commissioner of the Foreign Ministry in Hong Kong, the spokesman for the office said: "Hong Kong affairs are China's internal affairs. We firmly oppose any countries meddling in the city's internal affairs in any way."

He added: "Hong Kong is now in a sensitive political reform period. [We] would hope the US would be cautious of their words and actions regarding Hong Kong affairs and not let Hong Kong issues impede Sino-American relations."

The White House meeting came a day after the pair met the Democratic Party leader of the US House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, in Washington.

During their discussion with the vice-president, Chan and Lee also expressed concern over press freedom in the city, saying that Beijing was pressuring advertisers to shun media critical of the central government.

In response to the remarks, Beijing's Foreign Ministry representative in Hong Kong commented that the city "has successfully implemented 'one country, two systems' since the handover for 17 years" and its residents enjoy "unprecedented democracy and freedom".

Chan and Lee will be visiting Canada this week.


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## shuttler

Monday, April 7, 2014, 14:16
*China warns U.S. not to meddle in Hong Kong over democratic reform*
By Reuters

HONG KONG - China has cautioned the United States not to interfere in Hong Kong affairs after Vice President Joseph Biden met two prominent pro-democracy advocates, state news agency Xinhua said.

A former British colony that reverted to Chinese rule in 1997, Hong Kong enjoys considerable autonomy and broad freedoms as a capitalist hub.

Anson Chan, a respected former senior Hong Kong official, and Martin Lee, one of the founders of the main opposition Democratic Party, met Biden at the White House last Friday.

But the United States must "refrain from interfering", Xinhua quoted an official of the Foreign Commissioner's office in Hong Kong as saying.

The official urged the United States to "proceed discreetly" on Hong Kong affairs to avoid damage to China-US ties as the city is now in a "sensitive period" of political reform.

Earlier in their two-week trip to North America, Chan and Lee also met Nancy Pelosi, the leader of the US Democratic Party in the House of Representatives, and testified before a Congressional panel on China.

China has agreed to let Hong Kong elect its next leader in 2017. Specific arrangements, however, have yet to be hammered out, including whether public nominations of candidates will be allowed.

China warns US against meddling in Hong Kong- News- China Daily Asia

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## ChineseTiger1986

He has spent his time to study in USSR during the 1950s and had dating with a Russian girl.

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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He has spent his time to study in USSR during the 1950s and had dating with a Russian girl.



Who is the guy in the pic Tiger?

This bloke had a Russian wife

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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> Who is the guy in the pic Tiger?
> 
> This bloke had a Russian wife



The young man in the pic is Jiang Zemin in the 1950s, he was graduating from the University of Moscow for the electrical engineering.

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## shuttler

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The young man in the pic is Jiang Zemin in the 1950s, he was graduating from the University of Moscow for the electrical engineering.



omg it really doesnt ring a bell in me
what a difference that time has made to change the face of a man





credit: biz.itc.cn






Credit: powerapple.com

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## The Sultan Erdogan

I like this leader.

I treat the stupid westernized opposition and journalists of my country in the same way.

China, and Islamic World should lead the world out of this imposed Westernization and help the people to write their _own_ histories and destinies.

I hope India join us too, but they are too Westernized to begin with..and they love it.

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## ChineseTiger1986

shuttler said:


> omg it really doesnt ring a bell in me
> what a difference that time has made to change the face of a man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> credit: biz.itc.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Credit: powerapple.com



He looks like one of my friends, since his face is way too familiar in Shanghai.

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## nalan

江教训得没错，她应提高下水平，职业修养。作为新闻工作者，再自由再摩登也总得有点语文悟性吧，又想套情报又目中无人自以为是，这么先入为主霸气外露，够洋够奶，就是不接地气，放不下架子，舍不得入乡随俗？换个词换个表达方式变通下要死？买卖做不成也可以混个熟脸吧，是不是娱记过来的，发现根阴毛就手舞足滔忘乎所以了？哦，说到阴毛，我记得在视频网看过香港一女艺人出席什么活动时候是不是露了？我晕，当时没在意，很久以后忽然想起来了，想百度输了各种关键字，好像找不到，不了了之了。。。j


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## armchairPrivate

shuttler said:


> HK reporters are the biggest pussies
> Their expertise is to answer calls from the us and british masters



Not all HK reporters.

Call you say South China Morning Post?


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## shuttler

armchairPrivate said:


> Not all HK reporters.
> Call you say South China Morning Post?



I dont have much idea about that paper.
So I modify my comment to all the so called "democratic" pussies - oops then South China M Post is included as "pussies" at last?!!

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## armchairPrivate

shuttler said:


> I dont have much idea about that paper.
> So I modify my comment to all the so called "democratic" pussies - oops then South China M Post is included as "pussies" at last?!!



Well I don't keep up and haven't been keeping up with the HK's affairs much. Not really interested to be honest.
The Brits have done a good job to the HK populous in being colonist slaves (no different from what has done to the Indians). SCMP is the remnant of the colonial past.

I have the opportunity reading SCMP editorials on China's affairs in here. It reeks Anglo stink. It is like reading CNN, NY Times.

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## Huawei

SCMP is anti-China propaganda.

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## BoQ77

Huawei said:


> SCMP is anti-China propaganda.



UK should pass the control of HK to USA instead of China ... 
Now HK citizens must find path to USA by themselves


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## shuttler

armchairPrivate said:


> Well I don't keep up and haven't been keeping up with the HK's affairs much. Not really interested to be honest.
> The Brits have done a good job to the HK populous in being colonist slaves (no different from what has done to the Indians). SCMP is the remnant of the colonial past.
> 
> I have the opportunity reading SCMP editorials on China's affairs in here. It reeks Anglo stink. It is like reading CNN, NY Times.



the cases like Snowden's leak of NSA's snooping in HK and the exposure of massive espionage activities of usa and the brits in HK really have shown how pussie HK's media is
Is there any high profile criticism against the west about these which have posed internal security concerns to HK and the Mainland? I dont think so after browsing on the net for such news.


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## armchairPrivate

shuttler said:


> the cases like Snowden's leak of NSA's snooping in HK and the exposure of massive espionage activities of usa and the brits in HK really have shown how pussie HK's media is
> Is there any high profile criticism against the west about these which have posed internal security concerns to HK and the Mainland? I dont think so after browsing on the net for such news.



I don't quite fully understand your question, but I will answer see if that's what you asked.

I majority of the people in North America, Canada and the US, condemn the snooping of their own citizens but support the espionage on foreign countries, especially the enemies, a.k.a. China and Russia.

But if doesn't matter what the people think, the US "intelligence agencies" are too powerful to be controlled by the civilian government. The White House and the Capitol Hill can make laws and impose restrictions all they want on the agencies, NSA will carry on doing what it wants.

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## bolo

shuttler said:


> AD is notorious
> 
> Look at these 2 汉奸 traitors:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Above credits: i.ssimg.cn/guancha.cn


 
Look at first pic. Ms. what's her name Chan-Wong and Anson Chan so obedient like a child in class.

What are the consensus in HK @Chinese_dragon


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## shuttler

armchairPrivate said:


> I don't quite fully understand your question, but I will answer see if that's what you asked.
> 
> I majority of the people in North America, Canada and the US, condemn the snooping of their own citizens but support the espionage on foreign countries, especially the enemies, a.k.a. China and Russia.
> 
> But if doesn't matter what the people think, the US "intelligence agencies" are too powerful to be controlled by the civilian government. The White House and the Capitol Hill can make laws and impose restrictions all they want on the agencies, NSA will carry on doing what it wants.



My post @#23 was actually in agreement with your stance @#15

NSA is using brute hegemony force to break into your priviacy indiscrimately of friends or foes
The golden principle is the same everywhere like you said : " I majority of the people in North America, Canada and the US, condemn the snooping of their own citizens but support the espionage on foreign countries, especially the enemies, a.k.a. China and Russia." with the exception HK's mainstream media which are fucked up!



bolo said:


> Look at first pic. Ms. what's her name Chan-Wong and Anson Chan so obedient like a child in class.
> What are the consensus in HK @Chinese_dragon



she was over the moon to have a date with biden!

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## BoQ77

China is not what Hongkong citizens like ...


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## nalan

BoQ77 said:


> China is not what Hongkong citizens like ...


seems hk is your citizens like.never mind,we all like her,after all hk is a part of China.
怕误会，回来果断刷红下。记者用这词已经宣告不会正面回应了，作为江，当然不会去肯定，但就能简单的否定？这还不是变相承认。记者要么无知要么挟带私货，但我倾向前者，先入为主得太露骨


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## Snomannen

Rechoice said:


> Nan Yue land is transferred back first to Vietnam. There is native land of Woyue and Luoyue people.



@Viet
Remember what you told me?
This kind of people does exist, claiming everything as theirs. :p


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## Fukuoka

http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...php=true&_type=blogs&partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0


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## Fukuoka

http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...atisfaction-with-beijing/?partner=rss&emc=rss

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## danish_vij

Fukuoka said:


> http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...atisfaction-with-beijing/?partner=rss&emc=rss


u chinese?


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## shuttler

only idiots will believe in hk polls which are manipulated in favour of anti-government sentiments

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## Lux de Veritas

Beijing is feeding opium to HK. It is true that HK is a parasitic economy and the main culprit turning HK in parasite is China who take over UK providing dope.

Before HK are hardworking people, hijack by by a bunch of blood sucking tycoon, using exorbitant property. To maintain stability, Beijing has continue UK policy of appeasing the tycoons. There are stability but unfortunately, UK ruled an ascending HK while now, the way of HK development in coming to a dead end. There is a need for political and economical reform, in summary, the HK tycoon wealth and power must be strip and distribute to the people.

Instead of reforming, Beijing endowed HK with privileges furthered spoiling HK tycoon without benefiting the people.

Also to neutralize the native HK people, Beijing and HK elites flooded HK with mainlanders, and all native HK I met hate that.

The old ways do not work anymore. If HK cannot showcase success unification, Taiwan will be more convinced to go independent.

Below NYT says HK hate Beijing.

民意调查显示香港人对中央政府反感加深 - 纽约时报中文网 国际纵览


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## Zsari

Lux de Veritas said:


> Before HK are hardworking people, hijack by by a bunch of blood sucking tycoon, using exorbitant property. To maintain stability, Beijing has continue UK policy of appeasing the tycoons. There are stability but unfortunately, UK ruled an ascending HK while now, the way of HK development in coming to a dead end. There is a need for political and economical reform, in summary, the HK tycoon wealth and power must be strip and distribute to the people.


 
Lol, what are you? A commie?


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## Fukuoka

danish_vij said:


> u chinese?


I love the truth

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## danish_vij

Fukuoka said:


> I love the truth


good


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## TaiShang

As if what they believe or think really mattered. 

The questionnaire must have been addressed to Western racists or self-racists. 

People are happy not to be servants of the British Queen anymore. Sour grapes can take a one-way ticket to their long-missed Eeeenglaaand.

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## BoQ77

It's very easy to flow that way ...


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## Anastasia Wang

China can also conduct a poll to see its people's attitude towards HK and HK people. That will be very interesting.


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## rott

Waste of time to even comment


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## tranquilium

Hong Kong's economic development mainly comes from the fact that between 1953 and 1980s, it was the main port of connection between China and the western world. Once it lost that particular monopoly, its economy start to decline. The fact is, had it remained in British control in 1997, it would have never been able to weather the southeast Asia financial crisis.

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## bolo

Fukuoka said:


> http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...atisfaction-with-beijing/?partner=rss&emc=rss


Blogs.



danish_vij said:


> u chinese?


He's a Vietnamese false flagger formerly known as Elis. He hates Jews also.


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## Kaniska

Lux de Veritas said:


> Beijing is feeding opium to HK. It is true that HK is a parasitic economy and the main culprit turning HK in parasite is China who take over UK providing dope.
> 
> Before HK are hardworking people, hijack by by a bunch of blood sucking tycoon, using exorbitant property. To maintain stability, Beijing has continue UK policy of appeasing the tycoons. There are stability but unfortunately, UK ruled an ascending HK while now, the way of HK development in coming to a dead end. There is a need for political and economical reform, in summary, the HK tycoon wealth and power must be strip and distribute to the people.
> 
> Instead of reforming, Beijing endowed HK with privileges furthered spoiling HK tycoon without benefiting the people.
> 
> Also to neutralize the native HK people, Beijing and HK elites flooded HK with mainlanders, and all native HK I met hate that.
> 
> The old ways do not work anymore. If HK cannot showcase success unification, Taiwan will be more convinced to go independent.i
> 
> Below NYT says HK hate Beijing.
> 
> 民意调查显示香港人对中央政府反感加深 - 纽约时报中文网 国际纵览



Dude, honestly i admire the way China handles its dissidents and create a framework who are against its interest...At least i can wish my GOV can learn something from them about how crush anti nationalism in our country.


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## Fukuoka

bolo said:


> Blogs.
> 
> 
> He's a Vietnamese false flagger formerly known as Elis. He hates Jews also.


I love JEWS, you must make a mistake


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## dray

Fukuoka said:


> http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...atisfaction-with-beijing/?partner=rss&emc=rss



*Hong Kong Poll Shows Increasing Dissatisfaction With Beijing*
By MICHAEL FORSYTHE APRIL 29, 2014, 7:07 AM 8 Comments




Philippe Lopez/Agence France-Presse — Getty ImagesPedestrians crossing a busy street in Hong Kong, where more than half of those polled said they were not satisfied with Beijing’s management of the territory.

was chosen as chief executive by a group of fewer than 1,200 people, including many wealthy business executives and other members of Hong Kong’s elite society.

Fewer than one in 10 people surveyed had even “some” belief Mr. Leung would implement a fair nominating process that did not exclude qualified candidates who may hold views the Beijing government does not approve of. Over all, 72 percent of respondents said that Mr. Leung would not implement a fair system. Any plan for direct elections of the chief executive must be approved by the National People’s Congress, China’s legislature.

Democracy activists in Hong Kong plan to hold sit-in protests in the city’s central business district in the event that the Beijing government insists on a restrictive nomination system that excludes qualified candidates and does not meet international criteria for free and fair elections. Last week, Li Yuanchao, China’s vice president,warned that the movement, called Occupy Central With Love and Peace, was illegal and would threaten Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability. Among respondents, 57 percent said they were very worried or somewhat worried that the Occupy Central movement would harm the local economy.

Mr. Li repeated Beijing’s insistence that any candidate “must conform to the standard of loving the country and loving Hong Kong,” a phrase seen by critics of Chinese policy as meaning they must enforce Beijing’s will.

Among those surveyed, 38 percent said they supported the Occupy Central movement while 54 percent were opposed. Yet among people aged 21 to 29, 69 percent supported Occupy Central, while only 30 percent opposed.

Young people especially are increasingly looking away from mainland China in identifying themselves, the survey found. Over all, 62 percent of respondents wanted to promote and protect Hong Kong’s identity as a pluralistic and international place, with only 29 percent seeking to emphasize the region’s historical and cultural identification with China. Among people aged 21 to 29, 84 percent preferred identifying with an international and pluralistic society, compared with 14 percent who emphasized ties to China.

The exhaustive survey, presented in a 215-page document, is the latest in a regular survey of Hong Kong residents that maps their opinions about political and economic issues stretching back more than two decades. The project’s director is Michael DeGolyer, a professor at Hong Kong Baptist University. The survey had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Always post the full news mate.


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## Fukuoka

DRAY said:


> Always post the full news mate.


I think i gonna change my way to proceed indeed


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## Fukuoka

Over 200,000 vote as Hong Kong democracy 'referendum' kicks off| Reuters


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## cnleio

As far as i know, it's vote online.

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## Snomannen

The vote is the best joke ever.

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## ephone

exactly.

Those idiots think CCP will give a damn about this vote???

HK is part of China, though two systems so far. However, CCP won't tolerate HK to be a anti-China base. 

Those idiots can jump up and down, at the end of day, anything can be achieved without CCP's approval???

If they think CCP will cave in to their demands in this way, they should think again. 




KirovAirship said:


> The vote is the best joke ever.

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## TaiShang

Only 200.000+ online voting? That must have included all the British in HK. Disappointing!

Dear CCP, please deport all of them to Falkland Islands. The closer to the Queen, the better. 

LOL

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## rott

And did you notice the guy chanting? He's probably even more retarded than his looks. 
Looks like a Mr. Boo.

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## Jlaw

ephone said:


> exactly.
> 
> Those idiots think CCP will give a damn about this vote???
> 
> HK is part of China, though two systems so far. However, CCP won't tolerate HK to be a anti-China base.
> 
> Those idiots can jump up and down, at the end of day, anything can be achieved without CCP's approval???
> 
> If they think CCP will cave in to their demands in this way, they should think again.


That seems to be the recurring theme that some Hong Kong residents do not get. You can vote but if' it's not accepted by the leaders it is useless. It's like me declaring independence from Canada. I have no army to back my claim. It's futile.



rott said:


> And did you notice the guy chanting? He's probably even more retarded than his looks.
> Looks like a Mr. Boo.


Which guy? The slapper or the slapped?

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## rott

Jlaw said:


> That seems to be the recurring theme that some Hong Kong residents do not get. You can vote but if' it's not accepted by the leaders it is useless. It's like me declaring independence from Canada. I have no army to back my claim. It's futile.
> 
> 
> Which guy? The slapper or the slapped?


The slapped one.

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## ephone

If those suckers in HK can get the 1.4 billion Chinese vote with them, I will admire them. 

Otherwise, ...

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## Aepsilons

Fukuoka said:


> Over 200,000 vote as Hong Kong democracy 'referendum' kicks off| Reuters



2 slaps and he falls down? 



rott said:


> And did you notice the guy chanting? He's probably even more retarded than his looks.
> Looks like a Mr. Boo.



Bwahahaha! I agree...


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## boomslang

*Big turnout in Hong Kong political poll*
| Associated Press June 30, 2014



HONG KONG — An informal referendum aimed at bolstering support for greater democracy in Hong Kong wound down Sunday after drawing nearly 800,000 votes and the ire of Beijing, which denounced it as a political farce.

Hong Kong residents used the straw poll to express their desire for greater say in choosing their leader.

The vote is part of a campaign by activists in the southern Chinese city to ratchet up the pressure on authorities that could ultimately lead to a mass protest paralyzing the city’s financial district.

Hong Kong, a freewheeling capitalist enclave of 7.2 million, passed from British to Chinese control in 1997 with the promise that it could retain a high degree of control over its own affairs under the principle of ‘‘one country, two systems.’’

Beijing has pledged to allow Hong Kong residents to elect their next leader in 2017 but is balking at letting them nominate candidates.

Muslims in the west...Hong Kong, Viet Nam, Japan et al in the east.....This is going to get GOOD !!!

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## boomslang

One view ? I smell a rat.


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## Aepsilons

boomslang said:


> One view ? I smell a rat.



Oy Vey! Lol


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## boomslang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Oy Vey! Lol



I think my post was taken down and then put back up again. Maybe I'm just paranoid. No Chinese Mod would do such a thing, right ?


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## Aepsilons

boomslang said:


> I think my post was taken down and then put back up again. Maybe I'm just paranoid. No Chinese Mod would do such a thing, right ?



I hope not.


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## Skull and Bones

Now Hong Kong, later China.

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## Aepsilons

Very interesting.


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## boomslang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I hope not.




Me too. But even paranoids have enemies sometimes.

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## Aepsilons

boomslang said:


> Me too. But even paranoids have enemies sometimes.



Lol. If you're stressed, you can always come with me to piney hollow shooting range . My offer still stands.

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## manojb

Surprisingly hong Kong still not hanified!! They have no chance against rolling tanksm


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## Dem!god

@Chinese-Dragon 
ur views mate... how is honk kong doing....


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## Aepsilons

manojb said:


> Surprisingly hong Kong still not hanified!! They have no chance against rolling tanksm



I doubt the Chinese would use military force and renege on their agreements. This would result in an international quagmire. The CCP is corrupt, they are not stupid.


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## GCTom

Hong Kong is a democracy. Hong Kong is more democratic now than it ever was when it was under the Brits. However, some people in Hong Kong believes that direct one person one vote for HK CEO/Leader will better serve the people; something that the UK and Japan democratic system doesn't even have yet. It is a dilemma that Beijing and the HK government have to solve together, peacefully.

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## boomslang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Lol. If you're stressed, you can always come with me to piney hollow shooting range . My offer still stands.



Thank you, again. Some day..... I was over at Ft. Dix Saturday. I posted some of my 'handiwork'. Did you see ?
https://defence.pk/threads/armor-piercing-5-56-vs-1-2-inch-steel-plate.321406/#post-5858799
Armor Piercing 5.56 -VS- 1/2 inch steel Plate.

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## Edison Chen

Of course, HK and China are different system at the very beginning, China also promised in 2013 that HKers can get general election in 2016, this is all scheduled, any problem with that?

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## BoQ77

Hongkong used to have more democracy and prosperity, it's no surprise to see they don't want to share or lower their level to China mainlanders.


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## boomslang

Edison Chen said:


> Of course, HK and China are different system at the very beginning, China also promised in 2013 that HKers can get general election in 2016, this is all scheduled, any problem with that?



Sure !! 'Beijing has pledged to allow Hong Kong residents to elect their next leader in 2017 but is balking at letting them nominate candidates.' If China picks who gets to run then it isn't too free and fair, is it ?


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## tranquilium

boomslang said:


> Sure !! 'Beijing has pledged to allow Hong Kong residents to elect their next leader in 2017 but is balking at letting them nominate candidates.' If China picks who gets to run then it isn't too free and fair, is it ?



BBC News - Hong Kong democracy 'referendum' draws nearly 800,000

First, you missed the part where only 42% of the 800,000 voters backed the proposal.
Second, this is out of a population of 7.155 million.
Third, and perhaps the most important point, Hong Kong is not above the common laws that governs the entirety of China.

Let's be frank. While some of the posters here would dearly love to portray Hong Kong as a separate entity or a separate nation from China, thus somehow entitled to special rules. The fact remains that there isn't a single country in the world that recognize Hong Kong as an entity separate from China and while the Chinese central government intends to use Hong Kong as a testing ground for some political experiments, the bottom line is that Hong Kong remains an integral part of China. No amount of whining will change that.

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## JSCh

It is a largely online poll that is setup and operate by the pro-democracy organizer. There are report from Hong Kong of easily circumvent way of multiple/repeated voting and the volunteer worker looking the other way. 

As one would expect, it is a farce right from the start. 

Even so, the result (42%) is still short of a simple majority.

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## boomslang

tranquilium said:


> BBC News - Hong Kong democracy 'referendum' draws nearly 800,000
> 
> First, you missed the part where only 42% of the 800,000 voters backed the proposal.
> Second, this is out of a population of 7.155 million....




I think the low turn out was due to apathy and the fact that it was a non binding vote. They know that China well never let them choose their own leaders so why bother showing up. Also, it was a 'straw vote'. Stage a binding vote and I'm sure you'll see a totally different scene. And then China would come in and bust heads, sort of like Tienanmen.


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## tranquilium

boomslang said:


> I think the low turn out was due to apathy and the fact that it was a non binding vote. They know that China well never let them choose their own leaders so why bother showing up. Also, it was a 'straw vote'. Stage a binding vote and I'm sure you'll see a totally different scene. And then China would come in and bust heads, sort of like Tienanmen.



So basically, it just means the poll doesn't represent the Hong Kong people.

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## boomslang

tranquilium said:


> So basically, it just means the poll doesn't represent the Hong Kong people.



Correct. If it WERE a binding vote, everyone would show up and vote to ditch China. Then China would move in and slaughter a few thousand people and that would be the end of that.


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## tranquilium

boomslang said:


> Correct. If it WERE a binding vote, everyone would show up and vote to ditch China. Then China would move in and slaughter a few thousand people and that would be the end of that.



Or alternatively, if it were a binding vote. Everyone will show up and decided that this is non-sense.



JSCh said:


> It is a largely online poll that is setup and operate by the pro-democracy organizer. There are report from Hong Kong of easily circumvent way of multiple/repeated voting and the volunteer worker looking the other way.
> 
> As one would expect, it is a farce right from the start.
> 
> Even so, the result (42%) is still short of a simple majority.



Gee and an online poll to boot? World of Warcraft has more voters in the monthly "nerf this" thread than this poll.

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## NiceGuy

TaiShang said:


> I dare you to prove your claims (comparing pre and post-unification HK); otherwise, I will assume your brain is as infirmitive as a chimp-monkey's.


Okay, my VNese friend was wrong, infact: Chinese professor calls Hong Kong residents r dogs of the West. Happy now ?


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## Grand Historian

TaiShang said:


> I dare you to prove your claims (comparing pre and post-unification HK); otherwise, I will assume your brain is as infirmitive as a chimp-monkey's.


Don't bother with that troll,if you review his posting history you can see his ridiculous claims ie 黎 surname is not Chinese and that Chinese history is fake.

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## TaiShang

Huaqiao2013 at CDF posted the below and I quote:



> *What's the problem with exiling the so-claimed "hundreds of thousands" participating in referendum ?
> 
> How many of those "hundreds of thousands" are willing to go as far as to surrender HK citizenship as well as Chinese citizenship plus complete ban from entering China ?
> 
> Rest assured that there are more than enough patriotic Chinese to replace those pathetic suckers when they're gone.*


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## terranMarine

I don't doubt plenty westerners would love to use this opportunity to attack China by making up excuses such as suppressing Hong Kong's freedom. One country two systems doesn't mean Hong Kong citizens can decide for themselves which candidates can run for the Chief Executive post. One of the criteria for the election is that the candidates must have the approval of CCP. This is internal affair and no matter how many of you pathetic anti CCP guys out there whine, there's nothing you can do about it. Just as Hong Kong's extradition treaty with the US (Snowden comes to mind), Beijing stepped in and the rest is history 

The poll is a joke and won't change a thing, today the city has more freedom than when it was governed by the British who decided who the Chief would be without letting Hong Kong people to elect. There are more pro China Hong Kong citizens than these suckers like to believe. Only 42% of 800.000 out of 7 million = 4.7% of HK's population wants to nominate the candidates themselves.

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## JSCh

NiceGuy said:


> Okay, my VNese friend was wrong, infact: Chinese professor calls Hong Kong residents r dogs of the West. Happy now ?


Actually he said "SOME Hong Kong residents are dogs of the West."
This created an uproar and there are many that ask him to retract that statement.
So he comply,
By saying instead "SOME Hong Kong residents are NOT dogs of the West"

Which actually mean the same thing.

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## TaiShang

NiceGuy said:


> Okay, my VNese friend was wrong, infact: Chinese professor calls Hong Kong residents r dogs of the West. Happy now ?





JSCh said:


> Actually he said "SOME Hong Kong residents are dogs of the West."
> This created an uproar and there are many that ask him to retract that statement.
> So he comply,
> By saying instead "SOME Hong Kong residents are NOT dogs of the West"
> 
> Which actually mean the same thing.



You are chimp-monkey, too, @NiceGuy, since you play with words and take stuff out of context by misquoting certain officials.

Do not be so morally downgraded.

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## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> You are chimp-monkey, too, @NiceGuy, since you play with words and take stuff out of context by misquoting certain officials.
> 
> Do not be so morally downgraded.



They are Vietcongs, what else did you expect from these macacas? They have been doing that for a long time, it's what they enjoy doing it. Telling us not to lie but at the same time they like to take part of certain quotes they like and try to represent the majority with these false representation. Jungle creatures have no moral

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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Don't bother with that troll,if you review his posting history you can see his ridiculous claims ie 黎 surname is not Chinese and that Chinese history is fake.


Only idiot will believe in what were written base on hilarious imagination without any solid evidence back up 



terranMarine said:


> They are Vietcongs, what else did you expect from these macacas? They have been doing that for a long time, it's what they enjoy doing it. Telling us not to lie but at the same time they like to take part of certain quotes they like and try to represent the majority with these false representation. Jungle creatures have no moral


I always have link to prove what I post. 


> A professor at one of China's most prestigious universities has stirred up a hornets' nest in Hong Kong after publicly calling residents of the territory "*bastards", "thieves" and "dogs of British imperialists"*
> Chinese professor calls Hong Kong residents 'dogs of British imperialists' | World news | The Guardian


So funny


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## aliaselin

JSCh said:


> Actually he said "SOME Hong Kong residents are dogs of the West."
> This created an uproar and there are many that ask him to retract that statement.
> So he comply,
> By saying instead "SOME Hong Kong residents are NOT dogs of the West"
> 
> Which actually mean the same thing.


I totally agree with him

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> Only idiot will believe in what were written base on hilarious imagination


Nice try on your ad hominems,you are truly incapable of debating rationally.

You made the claims now back them up.

An example of his logic is that all Chinese history is fake because there were no cameras back then

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry that someone so ignorant would exist on this forum.

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## JSCh

42%!! 

An embarrassing farce for the Hong Kong pro democracy faction. 

What are they thinking?

Will they stop since there are actually HK people that bother to register/protest what they are doing?

Somehow I doubt they would.

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## aliaselin

NiceGuy said:


> Only idiot will believe in what were written base on hilarious imagination without any solid evidence back up
> 
> 
> I always have link to prove what I post.
> 
> So funny


He wrote it in Chinese on Sina weibo, why don't you quote the original Chinese character written by him? Do you think he will talk about this using English?



JSCh said:


> 42%!!
> 
> An embarrassing farce for the Hong Kong pro democracy faction.
> 
> What are they thinking?
> 
> Will they stop since there are actually HK people that bother to register/protest what they are doing?
> 
> Somehow I doubt they would.


Of course not, they make money from this, otherwise they can not feed themselves

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## ephone

When are those HKers during the british rule period? None of them had the guts to protest for direct election then???



BoQ77 said:


> Hongkong used to have more democracy and prosperity, it's no surprise to see they don't want to share or lower their level to China mainlanders.

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## terranMarine

NiceGuy said:


> Only idiot will believe in what were written base on hilarious imagination without any solid evidence back up
> 
> 
> I always have link to prove what I post.
> 
> So funny



You have shown us the link, but can you read the text? 



ephone said:


> When are those HKers during the british rule period? None of them had the guts to protest for direct election then???



Precisely, no Hong Kong people made a noise when England decided who the Chief would be during those days. No protest, no election. And now a minority of the HK locals make some noise and these anti CCP members here on this forum criticize CCP taking away HK's freedom. I say keep on whining it will not chance a thing not even a bit

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## NiceGuy

aliaselin said:


> He wrote it in Chinese on Sina weibo, why don't you quote the original Chinese character written by him? Do you think he will talk about this using English?


I can not read Chinese, so whats wrong from English news ?? why didnt u sue the web for lying ??


terranMarine said:


> You have shown us the link, but can you read the text?


Yeah, the text said: "A professor at one of China's most prestigious universities has stirred up a hornets' nest in Hong Kong after publicly calling residents of the territory *"bastards", "thieves" and "dogs of British imperialists*".


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## TaiShang

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, the text said: "A professor at one of China's most prestigious universities has stirred up a hornets' nest in Hong Kong after publicly calling residents of the territory "bastards", "thieves" and "dogs of British imperialists".



For one, the professor is right. But it is obvious from the context that he referred to only those "bastards", "thieves" and "dogs of British imperialists." Those people know who they are and the rest of the country knows who they are. So, those HK residents who are *not *"bastards", "thieves" and "dogs of British imperialists" will not take issue with this statement. Capisci?

On the so-called online, multiple-vote and fake account referendum, I guess that was a huge farce on part of the "bastards", "thieves" and "dogs of British imperialists" since the real extent of their power and base has been revealed. They are much noise and little content.


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## aliaselin

NiceGuy said:


> I can not read Chinese, so whats wrong from English news ?? why didnt u sue the web for lying ??
> 
> Yeah, the text said: "A professor at one of China's most prestigious universities has stirred up a hornets' nest in Hong Kong after publicly calling residents of the territory *"bastards", "thieves" and "dogs of British imperialists*".


Why should I sue? If you are bitten by a dog then you bite back? I have first hand materials, so your propaganda is useless

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## cirr

Hate to say this，but what's occuring in HK is good news for Shanghai。

Mighty good。

All shackles are off for Shanghai developing into an international fiance and tradecentre。

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## William Hung

tranquilium said:


> So basically, it just means the poll doesn't represent the Hong Kong people.





boomslang said:


> Correct.



Yet you still wrote the title of your thread as "HK votes for democracy - china pissed." Either you have no brain or you are a troll. I think both.



cirr said:


> Hate to say this，but what's occuring in HK is good news for Shanghai。
> 
> Mighty good。
> 
> All shackles are off for Shanghai developing into an international fiance and tradecentre。



The fact that some of these HKers are protesting shows that other cities are taking over their position as the financial hub of the region.

All these protests and farce are not even about democracy, its only about economy. These HKers are hating because other cities are rising up to take over them. Their rule under britain showed that HKers are only interesed in money and fame, not "freedom and democracy" as some western propaganda makes it out to be.

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## cnleio

Hong Kong is still the part of China, nobody can change it.
The vote is useless.

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## tranquilium

cirr said:


> Hate to say this，but what's occuring in HK is good news for Shanghai。
> 
> Mighty good。
> 
> All shackles are off for Shanghai developing into an international fiance and tradecentre。





Black Flag said:


> Yet you still wrote the title of your thread as "HK votes for democracy - china pissed." Either you have no brain or you are a troll. I think both.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that some of these HKers are protesting shows that other cities are taking over their position as the financial hub of the region.
> 
> All these protests and farce are not even about democracy, its only about economy. These HKers are hating because other cities are rising up to take over them. Their rule under britain showed that HKers are only interesed in money and fame, not "freedom and democracy" as some western propaganda makes it out to be.



Hong Kong's early economic prosperity comes from the fact that it was the only link between PRC and the rest of the world for a long period of time. Before the founding of PRC, Hong Kong was, for the longest time, a fishing village. Nowadays with multiple other connections available, Hong Kong's monopoly is gone and not ever going to come back. Let's face it, it would be rather hard for Hong Kong to compete with Shanghai. which simply has more people and more space.

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## boomslang

Black Flag said:


> Yet you still wrote the title of your thread as "HK votes for democracy - china pissed." Either you have no brain or you are a troll. I think both.....



Go back and read my post # 23 sloooooowly so that it sinks in. HOLY F*CK !! Where do these 'people' come from ?


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## Beidou2020

boomslang said:


> Go back and read my post # 23 sloooooowly so that it sinks in. HOLY F*CK !! Where do these 'people' come from ?



haha my old buddy boomslang 
long time no see


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## boomslang

Beidou2020 said:


> haha my old buddy boomslang
> long time no see



I've been 'around'. How's things ?


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## Beidou2020

boomslang said:


> I've been 'around'. How's things ?



yea not bad, just the usual trolling

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## boomslang

Beidou2020 said:


> yea not bad, just the usual trolling



Yeah, me too. Watching U.S. vs. Belgium right now, too. Multi-tasking.


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## terranMarine

boomslang said:


> Yeah, me too. Watching U.S. vs. Belgium right now, too. Multi-tasking.



 and US is out

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## boomslang

terranMarine said:


> and US is out



...and China was NEVER in .


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## Aepsilons




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## terranMarine

boomslang said:


> ...and China was NEVER in .



Yep, that's why it isn't painful for us because we couldn't lose anyway 
Time to pack the luggage and head back to the good old Wild West

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## boomslang

terranMarine said:


> Yep, that's why it isn't painful for us because we couldn't lose anyway
> Time to pack the luggage and head back to the good old Wild West




Yeah, I hear ya'. Better to be a has been than a never been.

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## Aepsilons

boomslang said:


> Yeah, I hear ya'. Better to be a has been than a never been.




For the latter, its almost like unrequited love.

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## Beidou2020

As long as Japan never made it out of the group stage, i'm happy.

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## Jlaw

boomslang said:


> See !! If you caught me when


This was response to Grand Historian. Not sure how your partial post ended up when I posted.


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## Levina

*In Hong Kong, Tens of Thousands March for Democracy*
July 1, 2014






Demonstrators walk on their way to join a pro-democracy rally seeking greater democracy in Hong Kong on July 1, 2014Philippe Lopez—AFP/Getty Images

*July 1 marks 17 years since the former British colony became a Chinese Special Administrative Region. Calls for popular representation are growing ever fiercer in the freewheeling metropolis*

When typhoons begin to lash along Asia’s coastlines each midsummer, Hong Kong usually manages to escape serious damage, since storms in the South China Sea tend to lose their muster over the Philippines and Taiwan by the time they make landfall. Some locals will cheekily boast that the city, constructed across an archipelago and on a peninsula extending south of the Chinese mainland, is protected by an invisible dome that blocks out these tempests.

But weathering political storms may be a different story for the former British colony, now a semiautonomous territory under the controversial domain of the Beijing government. On one hand, inside this proverbial dome a vibrant society enjoying free press and rule of law has flourished alongside — or rather, within — the last superpower on earth to describe itself as a communist state. On the other, some conflicting visions of this duality have spurred a more existential political unhappiness in Hong Kong, one that some believe is approaching boiling point.
On Tuesday, up to 500,000 people are slated to march on the city’s central financial district, in what in years past has encompassed myriad domestic grievances while commemorating the official end of British rule 17 years ago. *This year’s protest, however, forms the loudest testament yet to mounting opposition to just one thing: China.*

“We have waited for democracy for so long, but year after year it’s been bad news,” 21-year-old Lee Kan-tat, a liberal student activist, said on Tuesday morning in Hong Kong’s Victoria Park, where the march starts.
The call of the day — and, for some political dissenters, of the past five years — is for “universal suffrage.” Beijing has agreed to enact electoral reforms, most importantly the direct election of Hong Kong’s Chief Executive — the territory’s highest office — by 2017, but only from a list of preapproved candidates who must be “patriotic.”

Nearly 800,000 Hong Kongers voted in an unofficial plebiscite that ended on Sunday and instead called for open nominations. Beijing deemed that referendum illegal.
“The message from Hong Kong is very clear after the referendum,” added Lee, “800,000 people have spoken, and an overwhelming majority believe that the legislature should veto any reform proposal that doesn’t meet international standards.”..

At present, there are 3.5 million registered voters in this Special Administrative Region, but virtually none of them have ever cast their ballot in the quinquennial elections for the Chief Executive. The position is instead appointed by a 1,200-seat election committee, whose decision ostensibly reflects both the wishes and interests of the people of Hong Kong.
Critics of the system — and there are increasingly many — scoff at this presumption.
*Under the Basic Law, Hong Kong’s hundred-plus-page de facto constitution, the majority of seats on the election committee are occupied by individuals hailing from Big Business and various professional sectors, with only a small fraction reserved for legislators directly represented by the people. *Some point to this as a plainly and conspiratorially pro-China endeavor.
*“The government created a system that is deliberately complicated*,” says Emily Lau, the chairwoman of Hong Kong’s Democratic Party, with marked bitterness. “The corporations don’t want to upset Beijing — they need China to do business. So they elect pro-Chinese candidates. It’s all ‘money, money, money.’”

Within Hong Kong’s ideologically popular but politically fragmented pro-democracy camp, Lau and her party represent the moderate minority that believes some tapered form of “universal suffrage” is compatible with the current electoral system structured by the Basic Law. In other words, the existence of the election committee needn’t necessarily inhibit popular choice; what, Lau wondered aloud, if the latter had a role in determining the makeup of the former?

This isn’t to say Lau and her fellow moderates have sympathy with the pro-Beijing side. Lau, whose seat in Hong Kong’s legislature gives her an ex officio position on the election committee, has chosen to abstain from voting in past Chief Executive elections.

Given Beijing’s trademark stubbornness when it comes to amending Hong Kong’s constitution, Lau’s moderate stance may encourage the most pragmatic course of action. Say what you will about the Chinese government in Hong Kong, but it’s there to stay: Lau made a point to gesture outside her window to the 28-story headquarters of the People’s Liberation Army, just across the road from her office in the Legislative Council Complex.

But pragmatism doesn’t always prevail, and reactionism tends to be radical. The past five years have seen the rise of pro-democracy student groups that view a complete upheaval of the current election system as the only option, and any who oppose such a solution as traitorous to the cause of building a democratic Hong Kong.
For many of these activists, any gesture of political compromise with the Chinese government is a further sacrifice of Hong Kong’s autonomy. A civil-disobedience movement called Occupy Central threatens to paralyze the city’s main business district later this month, naturally incurring Beijing’s wrath. (Immediately after the July 1 march, a prominent students’ group is planning a rehearsal sit-in.)

More and more young people are aware of the disappointments and failures of the Chinese central government,” says 22-year-old Johnson Yeung, convener of the Civil Human Rights Front, which organizes the July 1 protests. “We believe that civil disobedience is the best means of fighting for democracy.”

This sentiment of extremism has all but hijacked the pro-democracy stage in Hong Kong, with mixed results. While the “civil disobedience” endorsed by Yeung and the thousands marching through downtown Hong Kong on Tuesday has given an unprecedented voice to the city’s discontent with Chinese rule, it also threatens to intensify the political hostility coming from Beijing that prompted the discontent in the first place.

Last month, China released a white paper condemning the intensified push for democracy in Hong Kong, calling the understanding of the “one country, two systems” policy here “confused or lopsided,” as by definition it only operates at the behest of Beijing. On Tuesday morning, a pro-democracy group burned a copy of this document in protest.

“The radical [pro-democracy] choice is loud, and potentially destabilizing,” says David Zweig, a professor of social science at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. “China feels its sovereignty has been infringed upon. But it has all the authority it wants — there’s nothing to stop it. It’s their territory, and they know that.”

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## cnleio

It looks like 1989 Tian An Men.

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## liaoliaoeryi

Some noises is better than quietness. Just hope it to be under control.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Mark my words, HK will be soon ruined by these brainwashed sheeps.

A decade later, there will have many Mainland cities set to surpass HK.

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## Jlaw

cnleio said:


> It looks like 1989 Tian An Men.


 唔似。港人最怕死。識吠唔識咬。



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Mark my words, HK will be soon ruined by these brainwashed sheeps.
> 
> A decade later, there will have many Mainland cities set to surpass HK.


 
.

HK has too many foreigners and NGOs that can cause a lot of trouble.

The only way is to make HK not a world class city. Investments should be shift away from Hk to other Chinese cities like Shenzhen.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Jlaw said:


> 唔似。港人最怕死。識吠唔識咬。
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> HK has too many foreigners and NGOs that can cause a lot of trouble.
> 
> The only way is to make HK not a world class city. Investments should be shift away from Hk to other Chinese cities like Shenzhen.



It seems that the US wants to turn HK into the second Ukraine, while right CPC is still too docile to do anything.

The biggest problem is the majority who remains silent and allows these pro-West sheeps to alienate HK from the Mainland China.

I just feel bad for fellow Chinese compatriots like Chinese Dragon who doesn't deserve to get screwed along with these idiots.

If HK's economy is ever going to tumble down because of this shit, we hope our Chinese compatriots in HK to move to Shenzhen and other Mainland cities.

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## Jlaw

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It seems that the US wants to turn HK into the second Ukraine, while right CPC is still too docile to do anything.
> 
> The biggest problem is the majority who remains silent and allows these pro-West sheeps to alienate HK from the Mainland China.
> 
> I just feel bad for fellow Chinese compatriots like Chinese Dragon who doesn't deserve to get screwed along with these idiots.
> 
> If HK's economy is ever going to tumble down because of this shit, we hope our Chinese compatriots in HK to move to Shenzhen and other Mainland cities.


 
Well up to the pro China HK to do something about it. remaining silent is the same as agreeing. They need that uncle to bitch slap some senses back to these anti HK people.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Those fcking tycoons in HK have polarized the wealth and caused all those stagnation problems in HK.

Now they want to divert the attention by shifting the blame on CPC and Mainland people, also to become the accomplice of the West to ruin China.

That city should be dying since 1997 after the financial onslaught of George Soros.

If the capitalist HK was dead in 1997, then a more harmonious socialist HK will be reborn, and all these shits will not be happening.



Jlaw said:


> Well up to the pro China HK to do something about it. remaining silent is the same as agreeing. They need that uncle to bitch slap some senses back to these anti HK people.



Let's hope the pro-China HKers will raise their voice, and if you keep remaining silent, then shits will happen to you.

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## Jlaw

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those fcking tycoons in HK have polarized the wealth and caused all those stagnation problems in HK.
> 
> Now they want to divert the attention by shifting the blame on CPC and Mainland people, also to become the accomplice of the West to ruin China.
> 
> That city should be dying since 1997 after George Soros' financial onslaught.
> 
> If the capitalist HK was dead in 1997, then a more harmonious socialist HK would be reborn, and all these shits will not be happening.


 
It already happened. The ball is in CPC's hand. What are they going to do about this situation? Give in or go hard? I think they will give in because HK is a money making machine for them and they don't want to disturb the golden goose.

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## GCTom

This just shows how much Freedom people in HK are enjoying. In a democracy people can peacefully protests almost about anything.

Compares now to when HK was under the Brits, HK's human right, freedom and democracy have grown so much.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Jlaw said:


> It already happened. The ball is in CPC's hand. What are they going to do about this situation? Give in or go hard? I think they will give in because HK is a money making machine for them and they don't want to disturb the golden goose.



HK is still too small to tremble the entire PRC, that's why right now CPC still won't bother to do anything, although already got annoyed.

Xi Jinping's primary task is to ensure China's economy can still develop smoothly without getting disrupted.

If HK doesn't get out of control, then it is unlikely that CPC will do anything right now.

Now it is up to the pro-China HKers to do something right now, they should start to resist against the imperialistic Trojan and stop these people to further alienate HK from the Mainland China.

If keep going down into the path, it is the ordinary HK folks who are going to suffer at the end.

So they should start to fight for their own behalf.

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## TaiShang

levina said:


> on Tuesday morning in Hong Kong’s Victoria Park



Beijing can start with changing these fracking British imperialist names.

I guess Beijing is doing wrong by cozying up to the apparent traitors. How hard could that be to mobilize 1 million strong pro-China activists?

*HK rally will not alter govt stance: official*

*SAR chief encourages territory to cherish economic success*





_Policemen keep vigil in front of a luxury shop in the central district as demonstrators march during a "pro-democracy" rally in Hong Kong on Tuesday. Photo: AFP_

Hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong residents took to the streets on Tuesday in an annual "pro-democracy" rally while authorities celebrated the 17th anniversary of the region's return to China.

*Local business people said that the rally has evolved into a playground for radical groups, and many residents expressed their resentment of extreme activities such as the Occupy Central movement.*

The aim of the march, which follows a 10-day unofficial "referendum" on how Hong Kong's next chief executive should be elected, is said to be "fighting for true universal suffrage," said one of its main organizers, Yeung Ching-yin of the Civil Human Rights Front.

The size of the protest or number of votes cast will not change the central government's stance, which remains firmly on the side of universal suffrage in Hong Kong, said Zhang Xiaoming, director of the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in Hong Kong, on Tuesday at a ceremony marking the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR).

*Most of the business groups at the celebration opposed the pan-democrats' Occupy Central proposal and civil referendum, and expressed their view that the rally, begun in 1997 as a platform for ordinary Hong Kong people to participate in politics and voice their demands, has become a playground for some radical groups.* 

"Hong Kong needs stability first before it achieves democracy and prosperity. Inciting protests will only contribute to the unstable political situation in Hong Kong," said a man surnamed Lam, a member of the Hong Kong Hainan Commercial Association.

Protesters began gathering at Victoria Park around 2 pm, setting off two hours later on a route that took them through some of Hong Kong's densest commercial districts.

*The Global Times noted that many of the protesters adopted a casual attitude, viewing the march as a part of their normal political participation.*

"I've come to this protest every year since 2003," a 65 year-old man surnamed Mok told the Global Times. "It is a traditional way for us Hong Kong people to express our hope for democracy, as well as a reflection of our democracy."

Another man surnamed Chan, who joined the march with his wife and son, told the Global Times that he also voted in the civil referendum, but he did not agree with the Occupy movement.

"They should at least wait for the government's proposal and not push the authorities," said Chan.

*Dissatisfied employees, animal rights activists and many other groups also used the march as an opportunity to advance their causes.*

The referendum, which ended on Sunday, saw Hong Kong residents cast nearly 790,000 votes for three different proposals, all of which called for public nomination to play a role in electing Hong Kong's next leader in 2017. 

*Yeung estimated that over half million people took part in the protest, while police said that about 92,000 had set out from central Hong Kong's Victoria Park by 7:30 pm.*

Hong Kong Chief Executive CY Leung said Tuesday that Hong Kong should cherish its hard-won economic success, adding that Hong Kong SAR government will strive to advance constitutional reform.

Two student organizations participating in the march came to a halt after arriving in Hong Kong's central commercial district and began a sit-in which they described as a rehearsal for Occupy Central. 

Chow Yong-kang, spokesperson of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, said he hoped more citizens will join the student movement. 

*By 10 pm around 2,000 people, mostly students, had joined the sit-in, which was not approved by police. Chow said that the demonstrators would leave on Wednesday morning, while police said they would begin clearing the area at about 4 am.*

Meanwhile, members of Scholarism, another student organization, surrounded the office building of current Hong Kong chief executive CY Leung. Wong Chi-fung, the organization's central figure, said they were there to persuade Leung to accept public nomination of the region's chief executive. 

However, Occupy Central with Peace and Love, the original organizer of the Occupy Central movement and the driving force behind the electoral referendum, believe that now is not the time to resort to occupation tactics.

Tam Yiu-chung, a Hong Kong Legislative Council (LegCo) member, told the Global Times previously that pan-democratic parties see the annual protest as a good opportunity to promote themselves.

*Groups such as Civic Party, People Power, Democratic Party and Civil Human Rights Front have deployed their members to collect funds along the marching route. Flags promoting pro-democracy LegCo members could also be seen along the route.*

Most of the protesters Global Times interviewed agreed that some slogans, like "Make CY Leung resign," "Re-form a new government" and "A totally independent Hong Kong" were inciting and radical.

The march proceeded peacefully except for several attempts by some protesters to break the fences cordoning off several lanes, which police halted immediately.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> Beijing can start with changing these fracking British imperialist names.
> 
> I guess Beijing is doing wrong by cozying up to the apparent traitors. How hard could that be to mobilize 1 million strong pro-China activists?
> 
> *HK rally will not alter govt stance: official*
> 
> *SAR chief encourages territory to cherish economic success*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Policemen keep vigil in front of a luxury shop in the central district as demonstrators march during a "pro-democracy" rally in Hong Kong on Tuesday. Photo: AFP_
> 
> Hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong residents took to the streets on Tuesday in an annual "pro-democracy" rally while authorities celebrated the 17th anniversary of the region's return to China.
> 
> *Local business people said that the rally has evolved into a playground for radical groups, and many residents expressed their resentment of extreme activities such as the Occupy Central movement.*
> 
> The aim of the march, which follows a 10-day unofficial "referendum" on how Hong Kong's next chief executive should be elected, is said to be "fighting for true universal suffrage," said one of its main organizers, Yeung Ching-yin of the Civil Human Rights Front.
> 
> The size of the protest or number of votes cast will not change the central government's stance, which remains firmly on the side of universal suffrage in Hong Kong, said Zhang Xiaoming, director of the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in Hong Kong, on Tuesday at a ceremony marking the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR).
> 
> *Most of the business groups at the celebration opposed the pan-democrats' Occupy Central proposal and civil referendum, and expressed their view that the rally, begun in 1997 as a platform for ordinary Hong Kong people to participate in politics and voice their demands, has become a playground for some radical groups.*
> 
> "Hong Kong needs stability first before it achieves democracy and prosperity. Inciting protests will only contribute to the unstable political situation in Hong Kong," said a man surnamed Lam, a member of the Hong Kong Hainan Commercial Association.
> 
> Protesters began gathering at Victoria Park around 2 pm, setting off two hours later on a route that took them through some of Hong Kong's densest commercial districts.
> 
> *The Global Times noted that many of the protesters adopted a casual attitude, viewing the march as a part of their normal political participation.*
> 
> "I've come to this protest every year since 2003," a 65 year-old man surnamed Mok told the Global Times. "It is a traditional way for us Hong Kong people to express our hope for democracy, as well as a reflection of our democracy."
> 
> Another man surnamed Chan, who joined the march with his wife and son, told the Global Times that he also voted in the civil referendum, but he did not agree with the Occupy movement.
> 
> "They should at least wait for the government's proposal and not push the authorities," said Chan.
> 
> *Dissatisfied employees, animal rights activists and many other groups also used the march as an opportunity to advance their causes.*
> 
> The referendum, which ended on Sunday, saw Hong Kong residents cast nearly 790,000 votes for three different proposals, all of which called for public nomination to play a role in electing Hong Kong's next leader in 2017.
> 
> *Yeung estimated that over half million people took part in the protest, while police said that about 92,000 had set out from central Hong Kong's Victoria Park by 7:30 pm.*
> 
> Hong Kong Chief Executive CY Leung said Tuesday that Hong Kong should cherish its hard-won economic success, adding that Hong Kong SAR government will strive to advance constitutional reform.
> 
> Two student organizations participating in the march came to a halt after arriving in Hong Kong's central commercial district and began a sit-in which they described as a rehearsal for Occupy Central.
> 
> Chow Yong-kang, spokesperson of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, said he hoped more citizens will join the student movement.
> 
> *By 10 pm around 2,000 people, mostly students, had joined the sit-in, which was not approved by police. Chow said that the demonstrators would leave on Wednesday morning, while police said they would begin clearing the area at about 4 am.*
> 
> Meanwhile, members of Scholarism, another student organization, surrounded the office building of current Hong Kong chief executive CY Leung. Wong Chi-fung, the organization's central figure, said they were there to persuade Leung to accept public nomination of the region's chief executive.
> 
> However, Occupy Central with Peace and Love, the original organizer of the Occupy Central movement and the driving force behind the electoral referendum, believe that now is not the time to resort to occupation tactics.
> 
> Tam Yiu-chung, a Hong Kong Legislative Council (LegCo) member, told the Global Times previously that pan-democratic parties see the annual protest as a good opportunity to promote themselves.
> 
> *Groups such as Civic Party, People Power, Democratic Party and Civil Human Rights Front have deployed their members to collect funds along the marching route. Flags promoting pro-democracy LegCo members could also be seen along the route.*
> 
> Most of the protesters Global Times interviewed agreed that some slogans, like "Make CY Leung resign," "Re-form a new government" and "A totally independent Hong Kong" were inciting and radical.
> 
> The march proceeded peacefully except for several attempts by some protesters to break the fences cordoning off several lanes, which police halted immediately.



CPC always dislikes the pro-Brit HK faction just like they dislike KMT and DPP.

However, right now it is too early to do something big.

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## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CPC always dislikes the pro-Brit HK faction just like they dislike KMT and DPP.
> 
> However, right now it is too early to do something big.



I agree. If the situation requires, I am sure Beijing will take care of it. It is one country, two systems, and the one country is China, including HK.

By the way, a learned comment at Global Times by the member senkohoe. I quote:

"It is economic, stupid!...is the reality first and foremost for the majority of Hong Kong people. Without a full stomach no soldier could march. Without bringing in basic food on the dinner table or bread and butter to survive...democracy, universal suffrage, religion or God lose its meaning..?! Hong Kong is just like any city like Shenzhen, Shanghai; not a state or country. It belongs to China, a return territory in imperial British colonialism period of Opium war. Hong Kong is very lucky to reach a remarkable economic metropolitan shopping mecca with worldwide visitors, shopper with sharp, skillful businesses, operators, a free port with political stability provided by China. It is wise to enjoy your freedom, wealth and livelihood far better to many in China unable to reach or achieved...but don't ask for something even the British cannot give?! What democracy when minority of 700,000 to 800,000 of questionable online voting versus the majority of 7 to 8 millions city population?! It is laughable demand from China of 1.3 billions people. Beware of foreign infiltration with intent to disrupt, dis-harmonize; and be proud of Edward Snowden chose Hong Kong as first landing. Do not lose your reality, focus for a few people's selfish interest and gains to which I could see and smell fishy far away."

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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Let see when Chinese leadership goes nuts and deploys tanks to crush the protest.



We will export them to Vietnam. You know how to kill Chinese looking people. Mob style.

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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> We will export them to Vietnam. You know how to kill Chinese looking people. Mob style.


I think we will take them as we gave shelter and foods for the fleeing Chinese after the collapse of the Ming.


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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> I think we will take them as we gave shelter and foods for the fleeing Chinese after the collapse of the Ming.



No. You do not preserve that high-moral. You will rob them first, and then beat to death. You have done that already. No reason not to believe that you will not do it again.

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## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> I think we will take them as we gave shelter and foods for the fleeing Chinese after the collapse of the Ming.



You Annan stabbed back Ming, so disgusting. Other countries pay tribute to Ming once a year, you pay tribute 3 times a year, greedy Annan.

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## GeHAC

Viet said:


> Let see when Chinese leadership goes nuts and deploys tanks to crush the protest.
> 
> Bloodshed is common in chinese history.


Typical valueless ignorant comment.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> No. You do not preserve that high-moral. You will rob them first, and then beat to death. You have done that already. No reason not to believe that you will not do it again.


 
You forgot one more thing after they beat the Chinese to death. The viets will stomp on the dead bodies, than do the Vietnamese dance.

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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> No. You do not preserve that high-moral. You will rob them first, and then beat to death. You have done that already. No reason not to believe that you will not do it again.


Bullshit.
The people of HK hate the chicom and are fearful of mainlanders.
You can ask the former Ming refugees if they want to return to China?


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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Bullshit.
> The people of HK hate the chicom and are fearful of mainlanders.
> You can ask the former Ming refugees if they want to return to China?



People of China hate the Viet for their low morale and chimp-like behavior.

So they will be happy to send over a few hundred thousand sorry-looser over to Vietnam for a mass-slaughter. 

1.4 billion are just happy to live in China. Are you happy in your Communist cess-pit of an economy?



Jlaw said:


> You forgot one more thing after they beat the Chinese to death. The viets will stomp on the dead bodies, than do the Vietnamese dance.



That's classic uncivilized chimp behavior.

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## Viet

Edison Chen said:


> You Annan stabbed back Ming, so disgusting. Other countries pay tribute to Ming once a year, you pay tribute 3 times a year, greedy Annan.


Why backstabbing? Dai Viet was a sovereign nation.

You're wrong.
Vietnam paid one a year and later in every two years. You can see it as gifts for the son of heaven.


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## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> Why backstabbing?
> 
> You're wrong.
> Vietnam paid one a year and later in every two years. You can see it as gifts for the son of heaven.



My mistake, it's stabbed Ming in the back.

Any source? Ming last 268 years. I don't know which year you are referring to. Annan is very greedy, you got Ming's territory, but Ming was kind to you.

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## Genesis

meanwhile the 1.3 billion on the mainland doesn't really care.


Viet said:


> Let see when Chinese leadership goes nuts and deploys tanks to crush the protest.
> 
> Bloodshed is common in chinese history.



but uncommon anywhere else?

No tanks here, and I know you are trying to troll. HK is 7 million people, Beijing is the center of China, can you see the difference?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Let see when Chinese leadership goes nuts and deploys tanks to crush the protest.
> 
> Bloodshed is common in chinese history.



This kind of protest can only tickle China.

But just wait to see how China will take Vietnam in a bloodbath.

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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> You forgot one more thing after they beat the Chinese to death. The viets will stomp on the dead bodies, than do the Vietnamese dance.


Waves of Chinese refugees to Vietnam in hundreds of years will tell you another story.

Most of Chinese descents living today in Malaysia and Indonesia have their ancestors root in Vietnam if you don't know.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I think we will take them as we gave shelter and foods for the fleeing Chinese after the collapse of the Ming.



Those people are your Baiyue brothers, you should take them now.

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## rockstar08

why doing this March ? just dial 911 and call uncle sam  they will bring Democracy


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## Jlaw

Viet said:


> Waves of Chinese refugees to Vietnam in hundreds of years will tell you another story.
> 
> Most of Chinese descents living today in Malaysia and Indonesia have their ancestors root in Vietnam if you don't know.


 
Because the northern Han swept throught the south and gave Annam civilization. Chinese generals and historians have written in the past the Southern barbarians (Vietnam) were so uncivilized which made them wonder if it was worth the effort to civilize them. 
Hindsight is 100% as it appears my ancestors were wrong civilizing you people.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Jlaw said:


> Because the northern Han swept throught the south and gave Annam civilization. Chinese generals and historians have written in the past the Southern barbarians (Vietnam) were so uncivilized which made them wonder if it was worth the effort to civilize them.
> Hindsight is 100% as it appears my ancestors were wrong civilizing you people.



The Han people from North China has made East Asia a great civilization, while those Nip/Kimchi/Annam are just a bunch of ungrateful freeloaders.

Yesterday, they learnt from China. Today, they are licking the boot of their western masters.

So East Asia always depends on China as its savior. If without China, then its fate would be no better than the Native Americans.

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## Okemos

OMFG, why is a Viet here again talking about non-related stuff?

As to the topic, it's better to let people vent their frustration then to suppress them. You know what Tang court minister and emperor's discussion, right? Plus, 大禹治水. The CCP really need lean some political wisdom from history.


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## Pangu

Okemos said:


> OMFG, why is a Viet here again talking about non-related stuff?
> 
> As to the topic, it's better to let people vent their frustration then to suppress them. You know what Tang court minister and emperor's discussion, right? Plus, 大禹治水. The CCP really need lean some political wisdom from history.


 I agree, let them sound off for awhile, but be mindful of foreign agent provocatuers usurping their emotions, Taiwan is watching closely so CCP must thread the middle ground carefully...

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## BoQ77

cnleio said:


> It looks like 1989 Tian An Men.



No. Hongkong has the rightful protest. In Vietnam the right of publicized protest under discussed.
We hope we can protest any wrongful policies ( if any ) of the govt in near future.

That's great.

Can tell me why Hongkong citizens call China govt as liar ?


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## DT1010

Okemos said:


> OMFG, why is a Viet here again talking about non-related stuff?


This is first Viet's post:"Let see when Chinese leadership goes nuts and deploys tanks to crush the protest.
Bloodshed is common in chinese history."
And this is first dog's post:"We will export them to Vietnam. You know how to kill Chinese looking people. Mob style."
can you see who started this?


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## Sam.

Taking to the streets and singing from Les Miserables, hundreds of thousands of Hong Kongers protest on the anniversary of the July 1 handover of Hong Kong to Chinese rule. At the same time, 800,000 people voted on a pro-democracy Occupy Central movement referendum that Hong Kong's chief executive should be elected by the people. Following a threatening white paper from Beijing, Hong Kongers sing, "Do You Hear the People Sing?" It seems like Beijing would have a hard time not.

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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Waves of Chinese refugees to Vietnam in hundreds of years will tell you another story.
> 
> Most of Chinese descents living today in Malaysia and Indonesia have their ancestors root in Vietnam if you don't know.



That's called immigration and it is not the first time in history people move. But your mob-like killing of defenseless Chinese is less common in modern times. This makes you an enemy of China and the regular Chinese. So, when you sympathize with a bunch of HK people, it is clear, this is out of your real hatred of China and the Chinese. That's why we will be happy to send those undesirables to Vietnam for another bloodbath in the hands of uncivilized chimps. Other than this, just as the opinion of India, Japan or the West did not dissuade Beijing from sending its rigs over to SCS or declaring ADIZ, outside opinion will not make any difference on this issue. HK is 7 million and China is 1.4 billion. 600.000 is not that much even to move one hair on Beijing's arm.



DT1010 said:


> This is first Viet's post:"Let see when Chinese leadership goes nuts and deploys tanks to crush the protest.
> Bloodshed is common in chinese history."
> 
> And this is first dog's post:"We will export them to Vietnam. You know how to kill Chinese looking people. Mob style."
> can you see who started this?



So, you see the logic in the Viet chimp's post? Because, he is barking on the wrong tree. This is not a place for wild speculation out of one's no-sun-shine quarters. That Viet chimp needs to bring out evidence. Apparently, so far, none of his predictions happened to be. On the other, the Chinese member responded with historical evidence of the Viet chimps lynching Chinese in 2014. Can you bring evidence to the contrary, uneducated chimp?



Sam. said:


> Taking to the streets and singing from Les Miserables, hundreds of thousands of Hong Kongers protest on the anniversary of the July 1 handover of Hong Kong to Chinese rule. At the same time, 800,000 people voted on a pro-democracy Occupy Central movement referendum that Hong Kong's chief executive should be elected by the people. Following a threatening white paper from Beijing, Hong Kongers sing, "Do You Hear the People Sing?" It seems like Beijing would have a hard time not.



We wish those some (partly virtual) 500.000 people a life in democratic India. Hence,

*Their wives and daughters (at times boys) would be raped and then killed.
*Their kids would die of drinking water or malnutrition.
*They would relieve themselves in any clearing in the wild and urban as naturally as some other species beings do.
*They would elect a president (freely) that has sectarian blood in his hands as governor.
*Their economy would be dwarfed by China.
*Their industry would be non-existent while they enjoy living in several of the worst polluted urban centers.

Those people will not be given a chance to turn any sovereign part of China into such democratic paradise. Turning Northeast India into a Marxist haven would be a more realistic strategic goal. If that is unfeasible, HK doing anything other than what Beijing dictates is equally unfeasible.


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## TaiShang

LOL.

Why did nit the police use a little bit of violence like how it happened during many OWS protests? Professionalism? More essential democracy?

*Post-rally HK sit-in brought to close*

*Hong Kong police detain protestors in Central, all later released*





_Policemen look on as some of their colleagues wait on coaches to transport protesters in the Central district after a "pro-democracy" rally in Hong Kong on Wednesday. Photo: AFP_

All 511 protesters detained by police during a sit-in in Hong Kong's Central commercial district earlier Wednesday were released before midnight.

*Police gave warnings to 486 protesters, allowing the remaining 25 to leave on bail, according to Radio Television Hong Kong. *

*Those allowed to leave on bail must report back to police in late July or early August, police said. Among them were three men who were found with weapons such as knives on their persons. A 21-year-old woman was detained for "assaulting the police."*

The protesters, including members of Hong Kong Federation of Students and some members of the region's pan-democrat parties, began the gathering at around 8 pm on Tuesday.

Police moved in on the gathering at around 3 am, taking away the protesters one by one.

*A police statement expressed the force's regret at protestors' uncooperative attitude and breaches of the territory's laws, and emphasized that its policemen have been professional, showing restraint and using "proper and necessary" force when having no other choice.*

Tai Yiu-ting, an organizer of the Occupy Central with Love and Peace, said that, although he did not agree with the timing of the protest, his group would offer legal help for the arrested.

In the meantime, members of another student group, Scholarism, continued a vigil begun outside chief executive CY Leung's office building at 10 pm on Tuesday, but did not manage to meet with Leung as planned.

"We will remain non-violent and try to avoid coming into physical contact with police," said Wong Chi-fung, one of Scholarism's organizers.

*Organizers of Tuesday's rally claimed that 510,000 people took part, while police estimated that only 98,000 people had participated. The Hong Kong University Public Opinion program said the number fell between 154,000 and 172,000.*

"The turnout of the rally does not represent the whole of Hong Kong," Chang Chak-yan, Chinese University political scientist and co-founder of Silent Majority told the Global Times. 

*"They are only representative of the existing supporters of the pro-democracy camp, who are trying to mobilize support so as to make their way into the pool of candidates for 2017 elections for chief executives," he said.*

He added that the overnight sit-in was intended to be a rehearsal to test the waters before Occupy Central officially commence, adding that protestors wanted to see how the government would react .

Separately, China on Wednesday urged the US to stop commenting on Hong Kong's internal affairs. Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said Hong Kong people's basic rights and freedom have been fully guaranteed and the universal suffrage in 2017 must comply with the Basic Law.


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## Sam.

TaiShang said:


> We wish those some (partly virtual) 500.000 people a life in democratic India. Hence,
> 
> *Their wives and daughters (at times boys) would be raped and then killed.
> *Their kids would die of drinking water or malnutrition.
> *They would relieve themselves in any clearing in the wild and urban as naturally as some other species beings do.
> *They would elect a president (freely) that has sectarian blood in his hands as governor.
> *Their economy would be dwarfed by China.
> *Their industry would be non-existent while they enjoy living in several of the worst polluted urban centers.
> 
> Those people will not be given a chance to turn any sovereign part of China into such democratic paradise. Turning Northeast India into a Marxist haven would be a more realistic strategic goal. If that is unfeasible, HK doing anything other than what Beijing dictates is equally unfeasible.



Bashing India won't solve China problems and as soon as you realize that you will be living in real world.However what can we expect from brainwashed people like you 

It's not India but people of Hong kong who want democracy.


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## BoQ77

Chinese mainlanders : try to get your own freedom right of voting/ protesting first, then you would know how hurt to lose it.
That's current feeling of Hongkong citizens.


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## StarCraft_ZT

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese mainlanders : *try to get your own freedom right* of voting/ protesting first, then you would know how hurt to lose it.
> That's current feeling of Hongkong citizens.



Hahaha, coming from a Viet commie! Even Indians have more credibility than you, regarding this.

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## mycutegirl

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese mainlanders : try to get your own freedom right of voting/ protesting first, then you would know how hurt to lose it.
> That's current feeling of Hongkong citizens.


why here viets reply those ignorant opinions,do you know the real point of Hk problem.
the communist Vietnamese engage in wild talk about democracy and freedom.don make me laugh.
most HK citizens nearly dont care politics.
and you said HK want frredom?come on,do you know they gonging to street'reason?
do you know what are their demands?

you trolling while you know nothing abou HK.

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## mycutegirl

i doubt some viets here want to trolling china without rhyme or reason or discuss the topic?
just GOOGLE "HK general election""hk,is the freest city in the world"
partial people just want a real general election from CCP while the UK never gave them,OK?
and partial people losing superiority feeling to mainland,OK?

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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese mainlanders : try to get your own freedom right of voting/ protesting first, then you would know how hurt to lose it.
> That's current feeling of Hongkong citizens.



Hey chimp, can you prove HK had more democracy before China took it back?

I dared you before to prove that HK is now worse off than it was under British colonialism and called you a chimp if you refrained a response.

I guess you went back to that "repeat" mode, hoping that your past arguments would be forgotten.

Does not daily consumption of banana even help a little to recover some brain cells that you lost over the years?


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## cnleio

BoQ77 said:


> No. Hongkong has the rightful protest. In Vietnam the right of publicized protest under discussed.
> We hope we can protest any wrongful policies ( if any ) of the govt in near future.
> 
> That's great.
> 
> Can tell me why Hongkong citizens call China govt as liar ?


Next TaiWan.

According to Hong Kong Basic Law, if they wanna changes after 50 years. That law was signed by BeiJing central government with British government, under British rule the H.K also no democracy too.

H.Kers can play democracy game right now, but ppl also need jobs for living. Oneday if they find local economy down and salary decrease, they will stop it.

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## JSCh

*Hong Kong Pro-China Protesters Take To the Streets Against 'Occupy Central' Movement*
By Mark Hanrahan@markdhanrahanm.hanrahan@ibtimes.com
on August 17 2014 6:11 AM





People take part in a pro-government rally in Hong Kong on August 17, 2014. Thousands protested in Hong Kong on August 17 against plans by pro-democracy activists to paralyse the city centre with a mass sit-in unless China grants acceptable electoral reforms. Alex Ogle/AFP/Getty Image 

Thousands of marchers have taken to the streets of Hong Kong to support the city's pro-Beijing administration, as a debate about the future of democracy in the special administrative region of China rages.

BBC News reports that More than 120,000 people have signed up for the rally in support of the government, which began at 1:30pm local time (01:30am EDT), but organizers say the turnout could reach 200,000.

The rally is aimed at countering the "Occupy Central" movement, a pro-democracy group that proposes to stage a sit-in in the city's central business district, unless the government in Beijing allows candidates for the post of Chief Executive, the highest post in the Chinese Administrative Region's devolved government, in the 2017 election to run without having to be subject to a political screening process. Critics claim the screening process will eliminate any candidate who is not favored by the Beijing government.

Agence France-Presse, or AFP, reports that the Alliance for Peace and Democracy, who organized the protest, claim that the majority of Hong Kong's seven million residents do not support the Occupy movement. "We want to let the world know that we want peace, we want democracy, but please, do not threaten us, do not try to turn this place into a place of violence," said the alliance's co-founder, Robert Chow.

The city has seen tit-for-tat rallies and petitions in recent months. A non-official poll run by the Occupy movement on the future of the city's democracy attracted nearly 800,000 voters. Meanwhile, a petition against the Occupy Central movement was signed by CY Leung, the city's current Chief Executive, and several members of his cabinet.

The South China Morning Post reports that critics of the march have claimed that marchers had been coerced into attending, with some allegedly being offered time off of work or a free lunch. Reuters also reports that some participants, mostly elderly, told the news agency that they had been provided with free transport by various political and business groups.

The Wall Street Journal reports that the next significant stage in the city's political debate will come later this month when China's top legislative body, the National People's Congress, issues its position on democracy in Hong Kong, which is expected to allow everyone to vote, but only for approved candidates.

Bloomberg reports that Occupy Central has threatened to organize a 10,000 strong sit-in if political reforms fail to meet what it terms as “international standards.” The protests may take place in next month if China indicates that there is no room for negotiation on political reform.

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## JSCh

*Thousands rally in Hong Kong against pro-democracy Occupy Central movement *
Updated August 17, 2014 21:49:19




Photo: Thousands took part in a pro-Beijing rally in Hong Kong on August 17, 2014. (AFP: Alex Ogle) 

Tens of thousands of people have gathered in Hong Kong to protest against a civil disobedience campaign by pro-democracy activists.

Demonstrators braved the sweltering heat to take part in Sunday's rally, which was organised by pro-Beijing group the Alliance for Peace and Democracy.

Alliance organisers say they oppose the Occupy Central group that has threatened to shut down Hong Kong's financial district with a mass sit-in unless China grants acceptable electoral reforms.

"We want to show that the march doesn't have to be violent and angry. It can be happy," Robert Chow, spokesman for the alliance, said.

The group says it has so far collected close to 1.5 million signatures, including that of Hong Kong leader Leung Chun-ying, saying the "illegal" Occupy campaign would tarnish Hong Kong's reputation and hurt business.

It wasn't possible to independently verify the number, which exceeded the almost 800,000 votes in Occupy Central's unofficial poll on democracy in June.

The pro-Beijing rally kicked off early on Sunday with a run through the centre of the city that attracted about 1,500 in temperatures as high as 30 degrees Celsius, organisers said.

*Pensioners join pro-government march*
The all-day rally was overshadowed by speculation that some business groups had pressured people to take part.

Many rally participants, mostly elderly, told Reuters they had been provided with free transport by various political and business groups.

In one district, about 150 people boarded buses organised by the Hong Kong Livestock Industry Association.

One man interviewed by Reuters said he had boarded a bus from an outlying area of Hong Kong and was given a HK$30 subsidy for lunch.

"It is normal to have a little bit of a subsidy when you are at a march. Some (marches) give more, some less, but this time we only get a little money for food," Chan Chiu-fat, 55, said.

In a Whatsapp message seen by Reuters, people were offered HK$350 ($45) to attend the rally "for five hours". The message sender, however, declined to provide their name or background.

Alliance spokesman Mr Chow dismissed such messages as fake and attempts to discredit the pro-Beijing campaign.

*Occupy group presses for 'genuine' democracy*
Hong Kong was handed over from Britain to China in 1997 under an arrangement that guarantees the city's freedom and civil liberties.

China says residents can vote for Hong Kong's leader in 2017, but concerns are growing that the city's pro-Beijing administration will set out a proposal that vets candidates.

Hong Kong's chief executive is currently chosen by a pro-Beijing committee.

Pro-democracy groups have called on Beijing to allow open nominations rather than only letting "patriotic" pro-Beijing candidates to stand.

Pro-democracy lawmakers said they would press ahead with the campaign to gridlock Hong Kong, if Beijing fails to come up with a proposal that meets their demands.

Occupy Central has said its movement is peaceful, demanding a "genuine choice" for Hong Kong's five million eligible voters.

*Reuters/AFP*

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## TaiShang

The best way to counter foreigner-fed occupy folks is to proactively occupy their proposed places of occupation.  Dialectic at its best, LOL.

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## Genesis

Occupy Hong Kong? Do they know Chinese leadership is in Beijing? They are about 5000 miles south of the place that matters.

The Columbus of occupy movements.

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## Kolaps

> The South China Morning Post reports that critics of the march have claimed that marchers had been coerced into attending, with some allegedly being offered time off of work or a free lunch. Reuters also reports that some participants, mostly elderly, told the news agency that they had been provided with free transport by various political and business groups.



According to the World Most Respected News Agency, Reuters:

*- Only ELDER people who support it! *
But never YOUNG PEOPLE (who have been educated in Christian school setup by Holy Queen government, the Most Beautiful in the World).

*- The protest is CORRUPT! *
And paid by the Communist Political Parties and Greedy Businessmen. (Remember Reuter didn't say about NEXT MEDIA and MARK SIMON, who is not no longer worked for Pentagon anymore. I REPEAT (if you are not clear), WHO IS NO LONGER WORKED for PENTAGON ANYMORE (which he is a very very very clean and honest person in entire UNIVERSE, I repeat again, UNIVERSE!!!))


The conclusion:

Reuters is the world hero! (for reporting the honesty to us)

And Anti-Occupy Movement is a FRAUD and CORRUPT!!!
(Unlike the NEXT MEDIA's MARK SIMON pro-democracy Occupy Movement, which is their honesty moved me in TEARS~~~~!!!)



Not forget, that CHRISTIAN Churches in HK and TAIWAN, held a mass praying event to support Occupy Movement.

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## Aepsilons

Very interesting.


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## Chinese-Dragon

JSCh said:


> *Thousands of marchers have taken to the streets of Hong Kong to support the city's pro-Beijing administration, as a debate about the future of democracy in the special administrative region of China rages.*



Even our HK Chief Executive (CY Leung) himself signed the petition AGAINST Occupy Central. 

'There is no neutrality': CY Leung signs petition against Occupy Central | South China Morning Post

This is why I always vote for the pro-Beijing camp (which dominates the HK government at all levels). Because they are more sensible and rational, compared to those other clowns.

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## Nan Yang

*Thousands in Hong Kong Rally in Support of China*
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/w...est-an-occupy-movement-in-hong-kong.html?_r=0

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## terranMarine

CD are you among the crowd? @Chinese-Dragon

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## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> CD are you among the crowd? @Chinese-Dragon



Always.  I am one of the most dedicated supporters of the pro-Beijing camp, I attend every march that I can.

It's people like me and my family, the ones that vote for the pro-Beijing camp... that allows the pro-Beijing camp to dominate the HK government at all levels, from LegCo, the District councils, all the way up to the Chief Executive.

It's this domination of HK politics that forces the anti-China traitors into such desperate moves. And we will mark down their names, see how their tune changes once the One country two systems farce is over.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Always.  I am one of the most dedicated supporters of the pro-Beijing camp, I attend every march that I can.
> 
> It's people like me and my family, the ones that vote for the pro-Beijing camp... that allows the pro-Beijing camp to dominate the HK government at all levels, from LegCo, the District councils, all the way up to the Chief Executive.
> 
> It's this domination of HK politics that forces the anti-China traitors into such desperate moves. And we will mark down their names, see how their tune changes once the One country two systems farce is over.



Many anti-CPC folks are still in denial, and they keep insist it was only 10k instead of 110k. And the protestors were all CPC-paid bots.

The behavior of those people is just so similar to the KMT supporters.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Many anti-CPC folks are still in denial, and they keep insist it was only 10k instead of 110k.
> 
> The behavior of those people is just so similar to the KMT supporters.



We need to purge all the anti-China traitors from HK.

Lucky, we have complete dominance over the HK government, nobody can even become Chief Executive without being loyal to Beijing first.

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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We need to purge all the anti-China traitors from HK.
> 
> Lucky, we have complete dominance over the HK government, nobody can become Chief Executive without being loyal to Beijing first.



Are there any ladies in the protest ?  

In case there are - I'm coming !

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We need to purge all the anti-China traitors from HK.
> 
> Lucky, we have complete dominance over the HK government, nobody can even become Chief Executive without being loyal to Beijing first.



Yep, their anti-CPC (China) movement is at the expense of HK's economic benefit.

Every anti-China groups are pretending that they are not anti-China, but only anti-CPC.

But in reality, their behavior is pretty much anti-China, since anti-CPC is just an excuse to justify their actions.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Armstrong said:


> Are there any ladies in the protest ?
> 
> In case there are - I'm coming !



Sorry your favorite Zhao Wei did not attend, she's not from HK. 



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *Every anti-China groups are pretending that they are not anti-China, but only anti-CPC.
> 
> But in reality, their behavior is pretty much anti-China, since anti-CPC is just an excuse to justify their actions.*



It is so obvious though. Everyone who is anti-China is also anti-CPC, no one can believe that is a coincidence.

Because everyone knows that the CPC is our best (and only) chance for China to become powerful again. People who hate China will therefore always hate the CPC too.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> The best way to counter foreigner-fed occupy folks is to proactively occupy their proposed places of occupation.  Dialectic at its best, LOL.


you know when foreign douche bags try to disrupt China, I don't see their media write 'of the 800 000 electronic voters, 80% voted multiple times.' But the douche bags have the nerve to write 'elderly people were provided free transportation to the protest site'.
AFP, Reuters a big 屌你 to you assholes.

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## dlclong

I thinksome Western media,Council expresses silence

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> you know when foreign douche bags try to disrupt China, I don't see their media write 'of the 800 000 electronic voters, 80% voted multiple times.' But the douche bags have the nerve to write 'elderly people were provided free transportation to the protest site'.
> AFP, Reuters a big 屌你 to you assholes.



That's in their nature, I guess  

What matters is that it has been made known that there is not a majority anti-China bloc in HK. The silent masses are foreign to the ideas of these traitors. What's amazing is that they are now being mobilized.

The problem with the anti-China folks during the protests in Taiwan was not that they enjoyed the overwhelming majority. But the silent majority remained silent and the occupying fools paralyzed Taiwan for more than a month.


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## Beidou2020

A research team at Chinese University of Hong Kong (CUHK) has developed an automated facial recognition system that achieved the highest accuracy rate in the world, according to Hong Kong China News Agency.

*The system reached an accuracy rate of 99.15 percent in recognizing faces in the Labeled Faces in the Wild, a database of more than 13,000 photographs designed for studying the problem of unconstrained face recognition.*

*The accuracy rate also set a record in a computed system being more accurate than human sight.*

Professor Wang Xiaogang, one of the team members, said the hardest part for automated recognition was to deflate the variety of one person in different pictures and magnify the tiny differences among people. They have coped with the two detections effectively and enhanced the accuracy, Wang added.

Wang also said the improved system can help law enforcement and security services recognize targets in massive crowds.

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## Fukuoka

Occupy Victoria Park






Tens of thousands of people gathered in Hong Kong's Victoria Park before the march begins.




Policemen stood guard in front of a store in the Central district of Hong Kong during the rally.




Rain poured down upon protesters intermittently throughout the day.




Demonstrators walked through downtown Hong Kong.




Organizers said 510,000 demonstrators marched, while police counted 98,000 people.




Demonstrators lingered in Central district the night after the march.




Policemen began clearing out protesters from the sit-in after midnight.




Demonstrators staged a sit-in on Chater Road in Central district after the march.




Tens of thousands of demonstrators marched during a pro-democracy rally in Hong Kong on Tuesday, July 1, to express frustration over the influence of Beijing on the city. More than 500 people were arrested during a sit-in after the march.


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## cnleio

Will HongKong become the Ukraine or next TaiWan ?

If HongKong local economy get hurt by so many protests, HKers need *Authoritarian Bread* or *Hungry Democracy* ???


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## Fukuoka

Tens of thousands of people marched through Hong Kong on Sunday, August 17 in support of China and to protest Occupy Central, a pro-democracy movement that says it will plan to stage a civil disobedience sit-in unless the Chinese government allows the Hong Kong public to nominate and vote for its next leader.




A group of pro-China protesters marches in downtown Hong Kong on August 17.




Protesters hold props as they marched on a street during the annual pro-democracy protest.




As rain begins to come down on the protesters, umbrellas fly open.




During the march, Joshua Wong, 17, the founder of pro-democracy student group Scholarism, announced he would stage an illegal sit-in on the night of July 1. "I may get arrested tonight. Will you all support me?" he yelled to the crowd.




A river of protesters, wearing white T-shirts to show their support for democracy, flowed through Hong Kong's Causeway Bay. Police counted more than 98,000 participants.


Pro-Beijing protesters hit back






Thousands in Hong Kong march against Occupy Central - CNN.com


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## Huaren

This is not good, both anti Beijing and pro Beijing groups are showing little trust in local government as they are moving out, this will lead to further fragmentation of Hongkong.

I have visited Hongkong last year, it left me the impression of being a mature international metropolis, but I have also noticed a distinctive lack of vitality compared with other chinese coast cities like Shanghai or Shenzhen. This political struggle is distracting the city from its development, if the city doesnt refocus on really important matters soon it will be left behind in the near future.


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## Okemos

Man, Hongkong is having parties all the time, that's fun! lol


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## Lux de Veritas

_Both HK tycoon and PRC are afraid of full democracy for HK. Right now, HK is ripe for social revolution, and if a "socialist" type of candidate win the election, there could be a re-distribution of wealth. Meanwhile PRC are afraid that HK may elect a non-aligning chief.

So far, Beijing has used the HK elites to control HK, by bribing them with business deals. But such deals do not benefit the people, and as a result HK stagnate.

The only hope for HK is to get someone who can implement socialism and impede the power of rent seeking elites. By putting brake on HK democratic process, Beijing risk alienate HK people. _

Hong Kong braces for protests as China rules out full democracy| Reuters


Pro-democracy activists vowed on Sunday to bring Hong Kong's financial hub to a standstill after China's parliament rejected their demands for the right to freely choose the former British colony's next leader in 2017.

The Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPC) endorsed a framework to let only two or three candidates run in the 2017 leadership vote. All candidates must first obtain majority backing from a nominating committee likely to be stacked with Beijing loyalists.

The relatively tough decision by the NPC - China's final arbiter on the city's democratic affairs - makes it almost impossible for opposition democrats to get on the ballot.

"This is a legal, fair and reasonable decision. It is a dignified, prudent decision, and its legal effect is beyond doubt," Li Fei, deputy secretary general of the NPC standing committee, told reporters after the decision.

Hundreds of "Occupy Central" activists, who demand Beijing allow a real, free election, prepared to stage a small protest late on Sunday to formally launch a campaign of civil disobedience that will climax with a blockade at some time of the city's important Central business district.

"Today is not only the darkest day in the history of Hong Kong's democratic development, today is also the darkest day of one country, two systems," said Benny Tai, a law professor and one of Occupy Central's main leaders, referring to the formula under which capitalist Hong Kong, with a population of around 7.2 million, was returned to Communist Chinese rule in 1997.

The Occupy movement said in a statement that "all chances of dialogue have been exhausted and the occupation of Central will definitely happen." It gave no timeframe for its action.

A spokesman for Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing (0388.HK), which operates the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, said contingency planning was taken very seriously. "We have long had a specialist team that coordinates group response plans for scenarios that put at risk the continuing operation of the exchange or threaten the well-being or safety of our staff."

Hong Kong's current chief executive Leung Chun-ying said Beijing's decision represented a major step forward in Hong Kong's development.

"Universal suffrage for the (chief executive) election through "one person, one vote" by Hong Kong people is not only a big step forward for Hong Kong, but also a historic milestone for our country," he said, adding people should express their opinion through peaceful and legal methods.

Political reform has been a constant source of friction between Hong Kong's pro-democracy movement and the mainland since Britain returned the city to China 17 years ago.

In nearby Macau, another special administrative region, leader and sole candidate Fernando Chui was "re-elected" on Sunday by a select panel of 400 largely pro-China loyalists in the tiny but wealthy former Portuguese colony.

GIRDING FOR ACTION

Scores of police vehicles and hundreds of officers were deployed outside Hong Kong government headquarters as people began to gather late on Sunday, braving heavy rain at times, with some chanting slogans.

Key government buildings, including the Chief Executive's office and a People's Liberation Army barracks nearby, were also ringed by high fences and barricades.

"It (the NPC decision) leaves no room for us to fight for a genuinely democratic system, and we will begin our campaign for peaceful, non-violent struggle," said Joseph Cheng, the convener of the Alliance for True Democracy, a coalition of groups advocating universal suffrage in Hong Kong. "We want to tell the world we haven't given up. We will continue to fight."

The United States responded cautiously. Commenting on the planned protest, a U.S. official who declined to be identified by name said Washington supports Hong Kong’s "traditions and Basic Law protections of internationally recognized freedoms, including the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression."

The official also said "the legitimacy of the chief executive will be greatly enhanced if "the election provides the people of Hong Kong a genuine choice of candidates representative of the voters’ will."

"We understand that the August 31 announcement is just one step in an ongoing process leading to a final decision on election reform in Hong Kong and will continue to watch as the process unfolds," the official said in Washington.

On the surface, the NPC's decision is a breakthrough that endorses the framework for the first direct vote by a Chinese city to choose its leader. Beijing is already hailing it as a milestone in democratic reform.

However, by tightly curbing nominations for the 2017 leadership poll, some democrats said Beijing was pushing a Chinese-style version of "fake" democracy.

The NPC statement said all nominations would be carried out according to "democratic procedures" and each candidate would need the endorsement of more than half of a nominating committee that will be similar in composition to an existing 1,200-person election committee stacked with Beijing loyalists.

The proposed electoral framework will still needs to be approved by two-thirds of Hong Kong's 70-seat legislature. With pro-democracy lawmakers holding more than a third of the seats, the proposal will likely be shelved.

In that case, the next leader would likely again be chosen by a small election committee. Wang Zhenmin, a prominent legal scholar and adviser to the Chinese government, said recently that: "Less perfect universal suffrage is better than no universal suffrage," adding that this window of opportunity in Hong Kong was an historical crossroads after "2,000 years of (Chinese) feudal history without any democracy."

Senior Chinese officials have repeatedly warned activists against their "illegal" protests, and say they won't back down.

Some key members of the pro-democracy movement, including media magnate Jimmy Lai, have also come under pressure in the run-up to the Chinese parliamentary decision.

China has also repeatedly warned against foreign interference, saying it will not tolerate the use of Hong Kong "as a bridgehead to subvert and infiltrate the mainland."

The Occupy Central movement has not yet won broad support among Hong Kong's middle class, who are concerned about antagonizing China and disruptions to business. Any strong measures by China or the Hong Kong police could change that.

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## cnleio

Good for the “ one country , two system ” policy:

1. If West democracy protests screw up 1% of China in HongKong, China still have 99% of China keep developing just let ShangHai to replace HongKong.

2. If 1% of China made a successful political system in HongKong, China can let rest 99% of China to learn it from HongKong.

HongKong is the experimental field of China future political system, if HKers fail China will find another city to replace it.

Mr Deng, who presented the proposition of "one country two systems", he is really a political genius and sent PLA stationed in HongKong military bases.

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## Huaren

Even for the experimental field there are some basic rules which must be obeyed first. Do not make the same mistake like KMT in Taiwan, promoting the so called "green" camp which openly deny national identity and disobey national authority. If there was ever to be democratic factions in China (HongKong or elsewhere) they must not be based on confrontation with national authority and identity, we are not in the age of revolution anymore, now national unity and identity must stand above anything else.

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## aliaselin

When will the Singaporeans hang the dictator Lee Kuan Yew and his son？


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## nalan

wait.experimental field to HK? i do not understand the logic...


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## Chinese-Dragon

I don't see what the problem is?

It's a good thing that our potential HK Chief Executives will be approved by Beijing before we vote for them.

I don't want to have even a 1% chance of a lunatic coming to power in HK. It's easy for foreigners to wish for that, they won't have to suffer, we will.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I don't see what the problem is?
> 
> It's a good thing that our potential HK Chief Executives will be approved by Beijing before we vote for them.
> 
> I don't want to have even a 1% chance of a lunatic coming to power in HK. It's easy for foreigners to wish for that, they won't have to suffer, we will.



Imagine that lunatic "cheong mo" or his democratic gang runs the show

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## BoQ77

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It's a good thing that our potential HK Chief Executives *will be approved by Beijing before we vote for them*.
> .



That's similar to what happening in Vietnam.
That makes voting become meaningless. Bad


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## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> Imagine that lunatic "cheong mo" or his democratic gang runs the show


that would be funny and tragic at the same time. Long Hair is more like a wannabe gangster than a politician.

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## Lux de Veritas

In the long run, HK is doomed. Right now, the best thing Beijing can do is to put a "real communist under the patriotic framework" to do dirty work against HK tycoon. 搞分田分地真忙。

But if China really antagonize HK tycoon, they will sabotage Beijing. HK tycoons have long been walking dogs of white man 买办.

I think Beijing would rather see HK elites shooting HK. A prosperous HK is a thread to sovereignty. Beijing would like to see HK become as normal as any other PRC 2nd tier city. This will hurt HK pride, and forestall independence sentiment.

There are precedences. When China took over Manchuria from Japan, Manchuria was at least 20 years far advance than anywhere in China. Manchuria had high density of railroad and heavy industries. Right now, Manchuria is just another normal Chinese province.

The side effect of "normalizing HK" is, Taiwan will watch in full horror. It will be more difficult to convince Taiwan for unification.


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## tranquilium

Hong Kong is doomed in the sense that it will no longer has the overwhelming economic advantage versus mainland cities. Hong Kong's advantage from 1950s to early 1990s is mainly due to its unique status as the conduit connecting Europe and China, which does quite a bit trading even during the height of cold war, but by the 21st century, cold war has ended (or at least in the sense that Europeans are sick of it), international political landscape has changed enough that Hong Kong would have lost that advantage anyway. As a result, Hong Kong and other major cities would gradually fall inline with each other.

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## Jlaw

tranquilium said:


> Hong Kong is doomed in the sense that it will no longer has the overwhelming economic advantage versus mainland cities. Hong Kong's advantage from 1950s to early 1990s is mainly due to its unique status as the conduit connecting Europe and China, which does quite a bit trading even during the height of cold war, but by the 21st century, cold war has ended (or at least in the sense that Europeans are sick of it), international political landscape has changed enough that Hong Kong would have lost that advantage anyway. As a result, Hong Kong and other major cities would gradually fall inline with each other.


HK democratic leaders and foreign culprits are to blame. They think disrupting businesses with protests are a good thing. In the end, it hurts the economy.

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## Lux de Veritas

tranquilium said:


> Hong Kong is doomed in the sense that it will no longer has the overwhelming economic advantage versus mainland cities. Hong Kong's advantage from 1950s to early 1990s is mainly due to its unique status as the conduit connecting Europe and China, which does quite a bit trading even during the height of cold war, but by the 21st century, cold war has ended (or at least in the sense that Europeans are sick of it), international political landscape has changed enough that Hong Kong would have lost that advantage anyway. As a result, Hong Kong and other major cities would gradually fall inline with each other.



She will become just like any other PRC 2nd tier city. But PRC will keep her prosperous enough to convince Taiwan to come on board.

HK does have very smart and hardworking people. Her elites are far more rapacious than PRC. At least in PRC, you still hear people calling for universal healthcare, pension for old..etc.


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## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> HK democratic leaders and foreign culprits are to blame. They think disrupting businesses with protests are a good thing. In the end, it hurts the economy.



not just them, even that shithead law professor is to be blamed for the unrest

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## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> She will become just like any other PRC 2nd tier city. But PRC will keep her prosperous enough to convince Taiwan to come on board.
> 
> HK does have very smart and hardworking people. Her elites are far more rapacious than PRC. At least in PRC, you still hear people calling for universal healthcare, pension for old..etc.



Singapore divided from Malaysia to be a richer island, they would not want to merge into Malaysia and turn to 2nd level city again.
If HK wouldn't be the flagship of China, that's regretful thing.


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## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> not just them, even that shithead law professor is to be blamed for the unrest


but i can't believe some dumb hong kong peoople would get brainwash by these "leaders". Obviously these people never heard of this Chinese saying 聰明人出口笨人出手.



BoQ77 said:


> Singapore divided from Malaysia to be a richer island, they would not want to merge into Malaysia and turn to 2nd level city again.
> If HK wouldn't be the flagship of China, that's regretful thing.


not really, hk's gdp in 2013 was $261b, way more than Vietnam.

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## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> but i can't believe some dumb hong kong peoople would get brainwash by these "leaders". Obviously these people never heard of this Chinese saying 聰明人出口笨人出手.



those who get brainwashed so easily in the first place are naturally too stupid to see the big picture. Following the news i can see just how blind some of these youths are. But no matter what Beijing isn't gonna move an inch just like Deng when he was negotiating with Thatcher. Fools fighting an impossible battle

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## BoQ77

*UK parliament rejects Chinese call to halt Hong Kong democracy probe*
Date
September 3, 2014 - 6:23AM
*Kylie MacLellan and Andrew Osborn*





Pro-democracy protesters take part in the rally for the beginning of Occupy Central movement outside Central Government Offices in Hong Kong. _Photo: Getty Images_


*London:* Britain's parliament has rejected Chinese calls to scrap an inquiry into Hong Kong's progress towards democracy, a senior lawmaker said, warning that reforms there may violate a 1984 deal on the former British colony's sovereignty. The US has also backed universal suffrage in Hong Kong in comments likely to anger China.

Britain handed Hong Kong back to China in 1997 under an agreement which said it could keep its wide-ranging freedoms and autonomy. But pro-democracy activists say a Chinese decision to tightly curb nominations for a 2017 leadership vote means Hong Kong risks ending up with a "fake" democracy.

With tensions rising in the special administrative region, Britain's parliament launched an inquiry in July, prompting the Chinese ambassador to Britain and the National People's Congress Foreign Affairs committee to robustly demand it be shelved.

But Richard Ottaway, chairman of the British parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee, said on Tuesday that members of parliament would not heed the Chinese calls.

Advertisement
"We are not stopping the inquiry. We met yesterday afternoon and decided to continue," Mr Ottaway told Reuters.

Britain's relations with China took a nosedive in 2012 after Prime Minister David Cameron met the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader whom Beijing says is a separatist.

Ties have mostly recovered since. Mr Cameron visited China last year and Chinese Premier Li Keqiang flew into Britain in June on a trip that sealed billions of dollars of trade deals and advanced London's push to become an offshore yuan trading hub.

Mr Ottaway's inquiry is meant to examine how China and Britain's joint declaration on the transfer of sovereignty over Hong Kong to China is being implemented.

The city was never fully democratic during 150 years of British colonial rule and China says its reforms amount to a "historic milestone" that will allow "one person one vote" when it comes to the Hong Kong chief executive position.

Activists say, however, that the vetting process will make it almost impossible for opposition democrats to get on the ballot.

"My job is to see if Britain is living up to its side of the undertakings and secondly if China isn't living up to their undertakings then what is the British government doing about it," said Mr Ottaway. "This is not interfering in the internal affairs of China; that would be completely inappropriate."

*Breach of sovereignty deal?*

Separately, Mr Ottaway told BBC TV that China's reforms may flout the 1984 Sino-UK agreement about Hong Kong sovereignty.

"If you have a committee which is not neutral in nominating a limited number of candidates, there seems to be a prima facie case that the undertakings given have been breached," he said.

"I don't particularly want to irritate the Chinese. I want them to understand the way we work."

A spokesman for Mr Cameron said the work of parliament's select committees was "rightly and appropriately entirely independent". He said the government was looking carefully at Sunday's decision by the Chinese authorities.

"Our position hasn't changed ... We think the best way to preserve Hong Kong's strengths is through a transition to universal suffrage which meets the aspirations of people in Hong Kong within the parameters of the Basic Law," he said.

The Basic Law is Hong Kong's mini-constitution.

China's letter to British lawmakers warned them to "act with caution on the issue of Hong Kong, bear in mind the larger picture of China-UK relations and Hong Kong's prosperity and stability, (and) stop interfering in Hong Kong's affairs," according to the BBC.

When asked about the matter, a spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry made it clear on Tuesday that Beijing was unhappy about the British inquiry.

"Hong Kong is a special administrative region of China. On the matter of political reform, it is an internal affair of the Hong Kong special administrative region, it is China's internal affair. (We) will not allow foreign forces to intervene," the spokesman told a daily news briefing.

The Chinese Embassy in Britain could not be immediately reached for comment. 

*US weighs in*

The United States has thrown its weight behind pro-democracy protestors in Hong Kong after Beijing refused to grant the territory's residents full voting rights.

"The United States supports universal suffrage in Hong Kong in accordance with the Basic Law and the aspirations of the Hong Kong people," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters on Tuesday in comments likely to infuriate China.

"We believe that an open society with the highest possible degree of autonomy and governed by rule of law is essential for Hong Kong's stability and prosperity."

Ms Psaki added the legitimacy of the future Hong Kong chief executive -- the city's leader -- would "be greatly enhanced" if the next one was selected by "universal suffrage" -- as is "the ultimate aim of the Basic Law."

*Reuters, AFP*


Read more: UK parliament rejects Chinese call to halt Hong Kong democracy probe


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## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> Singapore divided from Malaysia to be a richer island, they would not want to merge into Malaysia and turn to 2nd level city again.
> If HK wouldn't be the flagship of China, that's regretful thing.


Still be that ignorant,

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## TaiShang

Why is this guy so angry while all the others are so emotionless save look a little bit bored? 

He must have been fed with British made dog food. LOL.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> Why is this guy so angry while all the others are so emotionless save look a little bit bored?
> 
> He must have been fed with British made dog food. LOL.



Protesting is useless. One million people occuppied wall street last year and guess what, nothing has changed. Bankers are still scamming the ordinary folks.

No one was fired from wall street. Same old same old. These HK demonstrators should just go home, make some babies. Hk has a very low birthrate.

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## conworldus

First of all, there is no doubt that Hong Kong suffered a setback, but it is not doomed.

Of course, the communist government in Beijing is not feeling up to a full democracy because they lack confidence of the populous opinion (which, to be fair, is easily manipulable and Beijing doesn't know how to play that game).

What will suffer of course would be the well being of average Hong Kongers who had to suffer from worsening living quality. Most economic benefit from the Mainland has gone to a few oligarchs who collectively own 99% of Hong Kong. Beijing is quite out of touch with the average people and that's why they don't understand why so many Hong Kongers are discontent. Beijing thinks Hong Kongers are a bunch of curmudgeons but in reality, life was indeed better pre-1997, with much higher wages, social benefit, and opportunities.

The doomsayers however are overstretching the consequences. Hong Kong would indeed become more like a Mainland city, and possibly lose all of its unique cultural appeal, but economically it would do just fine. Low taxation and lax regulation would forever support at least a regional financial hub that's attractive to banks and corporations alike. Just become the head of the government is appointed by Beijing doesn't mean the whole system would be as bad. Hong Kong, after all, is still under intense international watch and its freedom is enjoyed by a lot of Chinese, including many Beijing officials. 

So basically, does Hong Kong have a bright future? NO.
Is Hong Kong doomed? NO.
What do I do as a Hong Konger? Emigrate

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## Jlaw

conworldus said:


> First of all, there is no doubt that Hong Kong suffered a setback, but it is not doomed.
> 
> Of course, the communist government in Beijing is not feeling up to a full democracy because they lack confidence of the populous opinion (which, to be fair, is easily manipulable and Beijing doesn't know how to play that game).
> 
> What will suffer of course would be the well being of average Hong Kongers who had to suffer from worsening living quality. Most economic benefit from the Mainland has gone to a few oligarchs who collectively own 99% of Hong Kong. Beijing is quite out of touch with the average people and that's why they don't understand why so many Hong Kongers are discontent. Beijing thinks Hong Kongers are a bunch of curmudgeons but in reality, life was indeed better pre-1997, with much higher wages, social benefit, and opportunities.
> 
> The doomsayers however are overstretching the consequences. Hong Kong would indeed become more like a Mainland city, and possibly lose all of its unique cultural appeal, but economically it would do just fine. Low taxation and lax regulation would forever support at least a regional financial hub that's attractive to banks and corporations alike. Just become the head of the government is appointed by Beijing doesn't mean the whole system would be as bad. Hong Kong, after all, is still under intense international watch and its freedom is enjoyed by a lot of Chinese, including many Beijing officials.
> 
> So basically, does Hong Kong have a bright future? NO.
> Is Hong Kong doomed? NO.
> What do I do as a Hong Konger? Emigrate



it seems like HKers ever do is emigrate when something is happening in their home. Just like 97, most came to Canada then went back a few years later. 
Now they are planning to go back? Good, let my house value increase further.


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## ChineseTiger1986

From 20% of China's GDP in 1997 to only less than 2% of China's GDP by now.

Hong Kong must take more time to reflect about themselves.

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## Kloitra

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> From 20% of China's GDP in 1997 to only less than 2% of China's GDP by now.
> 
> Hong Kong must take more time to reflect about themselves.



What more do you expect them to do? It is already a developed region, with per capita GDP 4 times that of mainland. It gets difficult to grow at this stage. It is the mainland which developed rapidly.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Kloitra said:


> What more do you expect them to do? It is already a developed region, with per capita GDP 4 times that of mainland. It gets difficult to grow at this stage. It is the mainland which developed rapidly.



Some Mainland cities like Shenzhen is on its way to pass HK in term of the GDP per capita.

Also, keep in mind that Shenzhen also has more population than HK.

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## Jlaw

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> From 20% of China's GDP in 1997 to now only less than 2% of China's GDP.
> 
> Hong Kong must take more time to reflect about themselves.



That is probably a main reason why HKers are ticked off. They are not able to look down on the mainland's 土包子 anymore. Now they are the ones seeking tourism and trade from the mainland.

In essence, HK is become a normal city as Beijing, Shanghai has already surpassed HK in GDP.

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## Kloitra

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some Mainland cities like Shenzhen is on its way to pass HK in term of the GDP per capita.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that Shenzhen also has more population than HK.



If wiki is believable, Shenzhen is almost half of HK in GDP per capita. (22k vs 41k). Besides, Shenzhen had special support of central govt in form of the industrial zone. HK should not be able to compete with the manufacturing hubs like Shenzhen, given the allotment of resources and overall development based on industries in mind. But for now, HK sits pretty high.


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## Okemos

Can I say I really hate the so called one country two system? What lunatic think it's a wise decision! I know it's pragmatic, but I hate Deng's pragmatism. This whole system just creates two strata of societies and is no good in long run unless the Mainland can move rapidly towards Hong Kong system. Why should mainland Chinese live under different system? Who dictates what system should one live under? The CCP's lack of confidence in its governing capabilities is clearly demonstrated in its handling of Hong Kong affairs. 

Deng's pragmatism has been seriously questioned more and more recently. Pragmatism sometimes lacks long term vision even though it may create prosperity in short term.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Kloitra said:


> If wiki is believable, Shenzhen is almost half of HK in GDP per capita. (22k vs 41k). Besides, Shenzhen had special support of central govt in form of the industrial zone. HK should not be able to compete with the manufacturing hubs like Shenzhen, given the allotment of resources and overall development based on industries in mind. But for now, HK sits pretty high.



Nope HK's nominal is only 33k, 41k is PPP.

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## UnChosen

Jlaw said:


> it seems like HKers ever do is emigrate when something is happening in their home. Just like 97, most came to Canada then went back a few years later.
> Now they are planning to go back? Good, let my house value increase further.



NO...keep them AWAY from here. I do not want people that come and go at a whim and never has true loyalty to any country.

I am still pissed at some of the first wave of HKers where we fast tracked their immigration to "rescue" them from evil China in 1997 only for them to do their business in Asia anyways, don't pay any tax, have their kids leave the moment they are done with our education, and the parents come back to "be a Canadian" when they get old.

At least the people from the China mainland cannot have dual citizenship so they either actually stay and contribute here in Canada, or they leave after their education and never come back.


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## Kloitra

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nope HK's nominal is only 33k, 41k is PPP.



41k was 2014 estimate, my mistake. It is 38.5k for 2013 though:
Hong Kong SAR, China | Data

Still far higher than Shenzhen.


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## Jlaw

Okemos said:


> Can I say I really hate the so called one country two system? What lunatic think it's a wise decision! I know it's pragmatic, but I hate Deng's pragmatism. This whole system just creates two strata of societies and is no good in long run unless the Mainland can move rapidly towards Hong Kong system. Why should mainland Chinese live under different system? Who dictates what system should one live under? The CCP's lack of confidence in its governing capabilities is clearly demonstrated in its handling of Hong Kong affairs.
> 
> Deng's pragmatism has been seriously questioned more and more recently. Pragmatism sometimes lacks long term vision even though it may create prosperity in short term.



Deng had great vision for China. Being pragmatic is good as it helped with development. I think China is strong enough to say that HK law should follow China's basic law. This free democratic election was a last minute blow by the British before handing back HK. If anything blame the Brits.

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## BoQ77

*Democracy isn't dead, say Hong Kong's Occupy Central activists*
By *Wilfred Chan*, CNN
September 3, 2014 -- Updated 1110 GMT (1910 HKT)





*Hong Kong denied full democracy by China*
*STORY HIGHLIGHTS*

China announced Hong Kong will not have open elections on Sunday
Hong Kong democracy activists say they will stage mass sit-in protest
Hong Kong legislators will veto China's reform proposal, resulting in gridlock

*Hong Kong (CNN)* -- The struggle for democracy is not dead, say Hong Kong's pro-democracy activists, one day after their leader appeared to admit defeat.

The activist group Occupy Central had hoped that their threats of a mass sit-in in Hong Kong's downtown Central district would convince China to approve open democratic elections for Hong Kong's next leader. On Sunday, the Chinese government said the elections should only consist of candidates approved by a Beijing-backed committee, dealing a blow to democracy supporters.

Even the leader of the movement seemed deflated.

"Up to this point, we failed," Benny Tai, the co-founder of Occupy Central, told Bloomberg Tuesday. "What we planned is that we use the threat of the action to create the tension... Beijing refused to back down."

But Chan Kin-man, a fellow co-founder, told CNN on Wednesday that Tai's remarks had been misrepresented.

"We may not have attained that specific goal," he said, referring to the hoped-for reforms. "But we want to create a resistant movement in Hong Kong. As long as the democratic spirit continues in Hong Kong, we will not give up."




Beijing: No open elections in Hong Kong



Democracy for Hong Kong



Is Hong Kong in decline?
*'We will occupy Central'*

When Hong Kong, a former colony of the United Kingdom, was returned to Chinese rule in 1997, the two countries struck an agreement promising Hong Kong the democratic election of its own leader, known as the chief executive.

But the democratic reforms have not materialized. Seventeen years after the handover, the city's chief executive is chosen by a committee filled with Beijing loyalists, leading to frustration among pro-democracy Hong Kongers.

On Sunday, China's National People's Congress proposed the Hong Kong public be given the right to vote in the next election — but they would only be able to pick amongsta maximum of three candidates who have been approved by a Beijing-backed committee.

Read: Beijing says no to open elections in Hong Kong

The decision prompted Occupy Central, which wants any election to be open to all candidates, to announce that itwill stage a mass sit-in bringing downtown Hong Kong to a halt.

The group has yet to announce a specific date for its civil disobedience, though organizers told CNN it would be "soon."

Occupy Central's tactics are controversial.

Chinese officials have repeatedly said occupying Central would be an illegal act that would jeopardize Hong Kong's economic security. Hong Kong's own security chief has warned the protest could turn violent, and "things could get out of control."

In August, an "anti-Occupy" march organized by pro-government activists drew tens of thousands. "We want universal suffrage, but not at any cost," said its organizer Robert Chow.

*'Ungovernable'*

Hong Kong streets aren't the only thing that'll be paralyzed.

A group of 26 pro-democracy legislators has said they will vote down any undemocratic proposal. Without their votes, Beijing's reform proposal will not have the necessary votes to become a new law, resulting in gridlock.

"We are going to veto it to show our determination that we are not going to accept this fake democracy," said Albert Ho, a pro-democracy legislator who is involved with Occupy Central.

Li Fei, China's deputy secretary-general of the National People's Congress Standing Committee, has said Hong Kongers only have themselves to blame for lack of reform if they veto Beijing's proposal.

This has effectively set up a standoff between Hong Kong and Beijing.

Alan Leong, another pro-democracy legislator, said Hong Kong is becoming "ungovernable." Without a popular mandate, the next chief executive will face serious challenges as he or she tries to control an increasingly upset civil society.

As long as the democratic spirit continues in Hong Kong, we will not give up.
Chan Kin-Man, Occupy Central co-founder
"There will be a new age of civil disobedience and non-cooperation across the board," Leong told CNN.

But, he added, Hong Kong spiraling into chaos may also persuade Chinese leaders that robust democratic reforms are what's needed to regain stability.

"It's like a phoenix rebirth sort of thing. We're getting worse in order to get better."

*International support*

In recent days, Western governments have spoken up in defense of Hong Kong's democracy activists.

British lawmakers have announced plans to visit Hong Kong to conduct an inquiry into whether its handover treaty is being violated by China's actions.

But China's National People's Congress has responded angrily, calling the inquiry a "highly inappropriate act which constitutes interference in China's internal affairs."

In the United States, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the U.S. government "supports universal suffrage in Hong Kong in accordance with the Basic Law and the aspirations of the Hong Kong people."

"We believe that an open society with the highest possible degree of autonomy and governed by rule of law is essential for Hong Kong's stability and prosperity."

But Hong Kong's democracy activists doubt the United States or United Kingdom can make a big difference.

"I do not have much hope on these two governments in particular," said Ho. "Of course they should say something, if they still have the moral fiber to stand up to the strong economic pressure of China. They should know what is right and what is wrong... if they have the guts to do it."

Ho said he and other legislators are currently requesting an "urgent appeal" with the Human Rights Commission of the United Nations and the Human Rights Committee on the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).


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## Lux de Veritas




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## terranMarine

Beijing gave the order and HK is gonna comply

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## Okemos

Lux de Veritas said:


>


I thought Greece is the oldest democracy lol


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## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> Beijing gave the order and HK is gonna comply


When riot police come out, these HK protesters will disband. We all know these protesters too well.

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## BoQ77

They would not climb to trees and live their monkey life, as someone calls them monkeys.


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## Lux de Veritas

实际上，不止香港，上海也是受害者。1952年的时候，上海的GDP是36.66亿元，北京是7.88亿元，上海是北京的4.65倍！萧何督建未央宫，刘邦抱怨太奢侈。萧何：天子四海为家，非壮丽无以重威。也就是说，首都不宏伟壮丽，不是第一大城市，皇帝会被人看轻，坏分子就容易造反。这就是传统中国的政治逻辑和城市伦理。


现在，全国城市整体上，尤其文化，学术全不及北京。北京人均GDP赢过上海。*其实全中国在补贴北京。*

Report: Hong Kong Becoming ‘Mere Second-Tier’ Chinese City


*Report: Hong Kong Becoming ‘Mere Second-Tier’ Chinese City*
The financial center’s specialness is in ever-greater danger.

Hong Kong is losing its edge as a global financial and commercial center, and the territory's economic clout will be overshadowed by China's major cities by 2022. That's the argument in an August 27 report released by Trigger Trend, an independent Chinese research firm based in the southern metropolis of Guangzhou. The report emerged just days before Beijing declared it would not countenance open nominations in the planned 2017 popular election for Hong Kong's chief executive, and its findings are likely to stoke further anxiety about the former British colony's economic and political future.

In the wake of Beijing's decision, Hong Kong's democracy advocates now face a hard choice between carrying out what some have called a "nuclear option" to occupy the city's Central financial district en masse, which could disrupt businesses, or swallowing what they call a "fake election" for the Chief Executive, the head of Hong Kong's government. Either way, Beijing says it does not plan to yield to acts of civil disobedience in the special administrative region, even if protests make investors or business owners jittery.

Hong Kong's annual GDP growth rate has hovered around two percent in recent years, while major regional centers in China have been growing at over seven percent per year. Hong Kong's 2013 GDP, at an estimated $261 billion, already pales in comparison to Shanghai's, at $354 billion, and Beijing's, at $317 billion. The report also states that at the time of its handover from the British in 1997, Hong Kong's GDP was 15.6 percent of China's national total; by 2013, the city's share had shrunk to 2.9 percent.

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## TaiShang

*Central gov't has final say on how to select HK leaders *

China's central authorities formally announced how the election of the Hong Kong Chief Executive will be carried out in 2017, following a decision adopted at Tenth Session of the Standing Committee of the Twelfth National People's Congress (NPC) on Aug. 31, 2014. The same meeting also decided how the Hong Kong Legislative Council will hold its election in 2016.




Hong Kong is a pluralistic society with a high degree of freedom, thus the different responses to the Decision were both anticipated and understandable. *But the Decision adopted by Standing Committee of the NPC, as a permanent organ that represents China's highest national authority, carries legal authority.*

The Decision is significant in that it clarifies the bottom line on universal suffrage, considering the situation in Hong Kong, and it intends to promote unity and understanding in Hong Kong society. In this sense, the Decision quells unnecessary disputes and is a final say on this issue.

*As a society built on the rule of law, Hong Kong has to accept the Decision which has national legitimacy, instead of dealing with it in irrational ways, such as "Occupy Central," which is an unlawful act punishable by law.*

Also in a society with pluralistic interests, various interest groups naturally have different appeals for universal suffrage, but they should voluntarily modify their appeals as the central government has made a clear stipulation about how the political system should reform and develop, for the greater good of both Hong Kong and the whole of China.

Hong Kong society is inclusive and enjoys high level of freedom, which allows the expression of different views. But over a long time, a small number of people in Hong Kong have refused to accept the relationship between the central government and the special administrative region (SAR) government.

These people either fabricated contradictions between the "one country" and the "two systems," or purposefully misinterpreted the relationship between China's central government and the Hong Kong SAR, inciting discord in Hong Kong that challenges central authorities. Such behaviors are inconsistent with the basic political implications in the "one country, two systems" policy.

The characteristics of Hong Kong society will naturally breed various responses to the NPC Decision, including opposition. This also shows that achieving a consensus on this matter in Hong Kong will be difficult.

The NPC Decision has strictly followed the stipulations in the Basic Law; it is not a reckless move, and it has clearly rejected any attempts to shake off the Basic Law in Chief Executive elections. It shows the central authorities' resolution in advancing and safeguarding the rule of law and its dominant power in keeping political advancement in track.

But there are still a few more steps to go before universal suffrage in Hong Kong can happen, due to current institutional stipulations. The Chief Executive election methods have yet to be approved by more than two thirds of the members of the Hong Kong Legislative Council. But the pan-democracy camp represents a critical minority in the Council and may hinder the process.

Much work is needed to be done to smooth out the roughness that prevents unity and understanding in Hong Kong society, before the election methods could be approved by the Legislative Council.

If the election methods fail to be adopted by Hong Kong's local legislature, universal suffrage may be postponed – a situation no one, including the people of Hong Kong, wish to see.

*The central authorities have a clear notion about how democratic politics will develop in Hong Kong. Beijing actively supports the initiative while resolutely sticking to the bottom line.*

Hong Kong society is witnessing severe differences of opinion about how to choose their Chief Executive. How the universal suffrage leads to the election of the Chief Executive of the Hong Kong SAR will require all stake holders in Hong Kong to come up with a concrete, more specific plan within the framework of the Decision, for the greater good of all.

_The writer is a professor on the Basic Law in Shenzhen University._

The article was translated by Chen Boyuan. Its original version was published in Chinese.

_Opinion articles reflect the views of their authors, not necessarily those of China.org.cn._

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## Shishike

What's _full democracy? _
does US have a full democracy or UK?

let ppl name selector is a chaos we can expert, like TAIWAN and INDIA


TaiShang said:


> Why is this guy so angry while all the others are so emotionless save look a little bit bored?
> 
> He must have been fed with British made dog food. LOL.


act angry and take more cash, just like what happened in Ukraine this year early.

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## DoTell

Trouble for the democracy fighters in Hong Kong is this: no one gives a fvck

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## TaiShang

Shishike said:


> What's _full democracy? _
> does US have a full democracy or UK?
> 
> let ppl name selector is a chaos we can expert, like TAIWAN and INDIA
> 
> act angry and take more cash, just like what happened in Ukraine this year early.



I guess that puny democracy thing is the last straw that certain minority Hong Kongers can hold on to to boast against the motherland. That's why certain minority groups are so hysterical about it.


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## Lux de Veritas

江南西道 said:


> 请注意你的用词，如果香港没有民主那么新加坡的专制又叫什么呢?




我做皇帝时，就会支专制，搞一百奶，搞处女，采阴补阳。哈哈。然后去洗脑别人，说独裁多好多好


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## DoTell

Lux de Veritas said:


> 我做皇帝时，就会支专制，搞一百奶，搞处女，采阴补阳。哈哈。然后去洗脑别人，说独裁多好多好


On the other hand, if you are not the emperor, you just want to be the emperor. You brain wash others, instigate riots because you are "the people".

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## cnleio

Lux de Veritas said:


> 我做皇帝时，就会支专制，搞一百奶，搞处女，采阴补阳。哈哈。然后去洗脑别人，说独裁多好多好


很显然，你不适合做皇帝，最多同北朝鲜金三世一个水平。 

问一问李加坡的李二世，李家是如何统治好李加坡的？


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## Jlaw

Lux de Veritas said:


> 实际上，不止香港，上海也是受害者。1952年的时候，上海的GDP是36.66亿元，北京是7.88亿元，上海是北京的4.65倍！萧何督建未央宫，刘邦抱怨太奢侈。萧何：天子四海为家，非壮丽无以重威。也就是说，首都不宏伟壮丽，不是第一大城市，皇帝会被人看轻，坏分子就容易造反。这就是传统中国的政治逻辑和城市伦理。
> 
> 现在，全国城市整体上，尤其文化，学术全不及北京。北京人均GDP赢过上海。*其实全中国在补贴北京。*
> Report: Hong Kong Becoming ‘Mere Second-Tier’ Chinese City
> 
> *Report: Hong Kong Becoming ‘Mere Second-Tier’ Chinese City*
> The financial center’s specialness is in ever-greater danger.
> 
> Hong Kong is losing its edge as a global financial and commercial center, and the territory's economic clout will be overshadowed by China's major cities by 2022. That's the argument in an August 27 report released by Trigger Trend, an independent Chinese research firm based in the southern metropolis of Guangzhou. The report emerged just days before Beijing declared it would not countenance open nominations in the planned 2017 popular election for Hong Kong's chief executive, and its findings are likely to stoke further anxiety about the former British colony's economic and political future.
> 
> In the wake of Beijing's decision, Hong Kong's democracy advocates now face a hard choice between carrying out what some have called a "nuclear option" to occupy the city's Central financial district en masse, which could disrupt businesses, or swallowing what they call a "fake election" for the Chief Executive, the head of Hong Kong's government. Either way, Beijing says it does not plan to yield to acts of civil disobedience in the special administrative region, even if protests make investors or business owners jittery.
> 
> Hong Kong's annual GDP growth rate has hovered around two percent in recent years, while major regional centers in China have been growing at over seven percent per year. Hong Kong's 2013 GDP, at an estimated $261 billion, already pales in comparison to Shanghai's, at $354 billion, and Beijing's, at $317 billion. The report also states that at the time of its handover from the British in 1997, Hong Kong's GDP was 15.6 percent of China's national total; by 2013, the city's share had shrunk to 2.9 percent.



Thanks to the pro democratic movement causing HK to tumble into a political nightmare. HK lost its competitive edge due to the fault of the HK people. Political instability is bad for business.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Hong Kong Billionaire Brothers To Give $350 Million To Harvard University - Forbes

Hong Kong real estate moguls Ronnie and Gerald Chan have pledged a $350 million gift to Harvard University through their charitable foundation, according to a report in the Harvard Crimson.

The gift is the largest in the institution’s history. The university will rename Harvard’s public health school in honor of the brothers’ father. FORBES currently estimates the duo, who run one of China’s commercial real estate giants, Hang Lung Group , to be worth a combined $3.2 billion.

That places them among some of Hong Kong’s wealthiest billionaires. The bulk of their fortune stems main from shares in publicly-traded Hang Lung, which was founded by their father in the 1960s. The brothers also run a private equity and venture capital firm, Morningside Group. Their stake in the Chinese smartphone-maker Xiaomi also helped rank them as the seventeenth richest in Hong Kong on FORBES 2014 list of Hong Kong’s 50 Richest in January with a net worth estimated at $2.95 billion.






English: Ronnie C. Chan, Chairman, Hang Lung Properties (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Ronnie Chan is the chairman of Hang Lung Group, and Gerald Chan sits on the company’s board.

Gerald Chan, who graduated from the school with a master’s degree in medical radiological physics and a PhD in radiation biology in the 1970s, also made headlines in March for buying properties around Harvard Square in Cambridge, Mass., worth about $100 million.

Their Morningside Foundation, which is pledging the donation over an undisclosed period of time, had assets worth about $47 million according to the charitable organization’s 2011 tax forms, the most recent released.

The mega-donation will help fund the school’s work in pandemics (which will include obesity and cancer), harmful environments, poverty and humanitarian crises and struggling health systems. It’s one of the largest gifts to a higher education institution ever made, and is only beat by a handful of other historic donations, according to a Chronicle of Higher Education database.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harvard is on a roll with the Chinese donations.


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## 55100864

I thought he is US citizen


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## Jlaw

It's his money, but I'm not surprised though. Most rich HK are not pro-Chinese. Most HK people I know are not pro-Chinese. Those that are just keep quiet.


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## UnChosen

Jlaw said:


> It's his money, but I'm not surprised though. Most rich HK are not pro-Chinese. Most HK people I know are not pro-Chinese. Those that are just keep quiet.



It isn't any worse than the mainland Chinese billionaires, who always seem to have to make a huge show every time donate, if they are not being extremely stingy and never donate.

And here in North America we have our tax avoidance and religious spreading disguised as "donations".

Most truly charitable billionaires and millionaires usually just donate silently in the background and no one will know about it.


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## Jlaw

UnChosen said:


> It isn't any worse than the mainland Chinese billionaires, who always seem to have to make a huge show every time donate, if they are not being extremely stingy and never donate.
> 
> And here in North America we have our tax avoidance and religious spreading disguised as "donations".
> 
> Most truly charitable billionaires and millionaires usually just donate silently in the background and no one will know about it.



Don't need to tell me about our "donations". I know it's for taxation purposes. The real donors are the ones who don't publicize it, rich or poor.

These guys who publicize it are fo show.


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## Shishike

Lux de Veritas said:


> 我做皇帝时，就会支专制，搞一百奶，搞处女，采阴补阳。哈哈。然后去洗脑别人，说独裁多好多好


都一样，可惜所谓民主，也没进行民选提名啊，还不是2个大党各类出一堆和你完全没交集，甚至完全没看过的名字，让你选？你唯一做主的是写不同的名“字”，而实际上这样的权力，一个小学生都能行使，而对于这个政治人物除了宣传以外是个怎么样的人，是否会治理国家，是否有能力承担这个位子，除了宣传，选民朋友们也像小学生一样迷茫。


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## Fukuoka

Pro-Beijing activists scuffle with Hong Kong democracy supporters| Reuters





Former Civic Party lawmaker Tanya Chan (C) shaves her head during a protest to call for people to join them for an upcoming "Occupy Central" movement rally in Hong Kong September 9, 2014. 




Pro-democracy activists shave their heads during a protest to call for people to join them for an upcoming "Occupy Central" movement rally in Hong Kong September 9, 2014. 




Pro-democracy activists pose after shaving their heads during a protest to call for people to join them for an upcoming "Occupy Central" movement rally in Hong Kong September 9, 2014. 




Founders of the Occupy Central civil disobedience movement (from L to R) academic Chan Kin-man, academic Benny Tai and Reverend Chu Yiu-ming pose for pictures after shaving their heads during a protest to call for people to join them for an upcoming "Occupy Central" movement rally in Hong Kong September 9, 2014. 




A pro-democracy protester carries a placard which reads ‘Communist Party, you lie!’ as he sits with other protesters during a campaign to kick off the Occupy Central civil disobedience event in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014.

China sends armoured carriers into Hong Kong Streets amidst democracy protests | China Daily Mail


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## Genesis

Now we are really scared, 11 super carriers by the US and the seventh fleet don't scare us, but a few shaved head is definitely more scary. 

By the way, they need to take the ribbon off, the leadership might think they are shaving for cancer lol. Wrong message.

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## AgentOrange

Where was all this faux moral outrage when the Brits were in charge? Wait, I know, all of these self-loathing "protesters" were too busy begging for scraps from whites to be concerned with something *never* granted to them in 150+ years of British rule. And now they're suddenly brave when it's time to disrupt a government run by Chinese people.

In WW2, people like these were referred to as "hanjian" - race traitors. And both the Commies *and* Nationalists had a different kind of "shave" in store for captured hanjian who collaborated with foreign enemies. Fortunately, China is a much more civilized place now and these clowns are free to humiliate themselves for a few words of praise from their white masters.

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## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> In WW2, people like these were referred to as "hanjian" - race traitors. And both the Commies and Nationalists had a different kind of "shave" in store for captured hanjian who collaborated with foreign enemies. Fortunately, China is a much more civilized place now and these clowns are free to humiliate themselves for a few words of praise from their white masters.



Why were people referred to as 'Hanjian' ? Where they cooperative with the Imperial Japanese Colonial Administration ? or did they enlist into the Imperial Army as reconnaissance specialists ?


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## AgentOrange

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Why were people referred to as 'Hanjian' ? Where they cooperative with the Imperial Japanese Colonial Administration ? or did they enlist into the Imperial Army as reconnaissance specialists ?



Hanjian basically means "race traitor" and the term referred to collaborators of all stripes who aided the enemy against their own country.

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## thesolar65

Thousands of students in Hong Kong have converged on a university campus to begin a week-long boycott of classes.

They are protesting against China's stance on electoral reform in the territory. Students from more than two dozen institutions are taking part.

It is a prelude to a larger protest on 1 October planned by pro-democracy group Occupy Central.

Beijing has rejected open nominations for the city's leadership poll, dashing hopes of those seeking full democracy.

The boycott saw thousands of students gathering at 14:00 local time (07:00 BST) for a sit-in at the Chinese University of Hong Kong campus in Sha Tin, several kilometres north of the city centre.

Most are wearing white T-shirts with yellow ribbons - a colour adopted by pro-democracy activists.

The boycott is being organised by groups such as the Hong Kong Federation of Students and Scholarism.

Student activists are also organising a series of rallies and public lectures in a park near government offices later in the week.









RTHK reported that teenage activists were standing outside secondary schools early on Monday morning, distributing yellow ribbons to students arriving for class and urging them to join the boycott.

About 400 academics and non-teaching staff are also taking part in support of the students, according to the South China Morning Post.
Juliana Liu, BBC News, Hong Kong
The Hong Kong Federation of Students said that about 13,000 students had gathered for the start of the boycott. The mood was defiant.

The last time students in Hong Kong engaged in such a large-scale protest was in 2012, when they successfully argued against the implementation of national and moral education, which some critics said was a form of brainwashing.

Two years ago, the Hong Kong government gave in. But this time, the main target of their strike, the Chinese government in Beijing, is unlikely to be as accommodating.

The students also sent a letter to the current chief executive CY Leung, blaming him, in part, for Beijing's tough requirements for election candidates.

They said Mr Leung had "no excuse" for absolving himself from the proposal announced by the Chinese government.

Campaign ahead
A larger pro-democracy protest is due to take place next month. Occupy Central has pledged to stage a sit-in at Hong Kong's financial district, which critics have said may shut down the area.

The issue of how Hong Kong can choose its leader gripped the city in recent months, sparking protests from both the pro-democracy and pro-Beijing camps.

The Chinese government has promised direct elections for Hong Kong's leader, the chief executive, by 2017.

But in August, it ruled that voters would only have a choice from a list of two or three candidates selected by a nominating committee.

Democracy activists say China will use this committee to screen out candidates it disapproves of.

Pro-Beijing activists, meanwhile, believe the other camp is disrupting Hong Kong's peace and stability.

The protesting students say Beijing's decision does not amount to the greater democracy Hong Kong was promised when it was handed back from Britain to China in 1997.

But the BBC's China editor Carrie Gracie says the communist leadership in Beijing is turning firmly against ideas of political reform at home and has no interest in encouraging noisy critics.

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## Kolaps

*This is TRUE democracy!*

Just like DPP and Sunflower movement in Taiwan.


HK silent majority or Taiwan last public election are not democracy!

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Kolaps said:


> *This is TRUE democracy!*
> 
> Just like DPP and Sunflower movement in Taiwan.
> 
> 
> HK silent majority or Taiwan last public election are not democracy!


yeah, just like mainland one party policy, Taiwan should have only one party - DPP


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## Kolaps

DPP is the US bestfriend.

US is democracy!

So yes, DPP is democracy!


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## kawaraj

This will just end up like Ocuppy Wall Street.

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## Kolaps

The HK anti-Beijing movement, is democracy!


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## DoTell

Only one week short? Why don't they take the rest of the year off for what I care. They waited a hundred years under their British master and never made a fart about it. What's the rush now?

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## OrionHunter

Hong Kong should now get rid of the stifling rule of the CCP and teach the Chinese what democracy is all about! Han policies seem to be pissing off everyone with Hong Kong being the latest kid on the block to protest Chinese high handedness. They need to see the writing on the wall.


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## TaiShang

*Experts, overseas Chinese support Beijing's decision on Hong Kong's electoral reform*

Foreign experts and overseas Chinese have spoken positively of a decision by China's top legislature on Hong Kong's electoral reform, saying it is of great significance to the development and prosperity of Hong Kong.

The Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPC) decided on Sunday to grant universal suffrage in the election of Hong Kong's chief executive on the basis of nomination by a "broadly representative" committee.

Neo Simutanyi, executive director of the Center for Policy Dialogue, a Zambian think tank, said "the decision by the Chinese government ... is a path in the right direction."

It is of great significance to the long-term development and prosperity of Hong Kong, he added.

Chap Sotharith, chief researcher at the Cambodian Institute for Cooperation and Peace, said issues related to Hong Kong are China's internal affairs, in which neither foreign governments nor other external forces should interfere.

Yang Hekun, deputy chairman of L'Association des Residents en France d'Origine Indochinoise, said Hong Kong follows a unique path in political and economic development, which features such policies as "one country, two systems," and "Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong with a high degree of autonomy."

The policies are Hong Kong's advantages and the foundation of its prosperity and stability, Yang said, adding that at present the Hong Kong people must be united to ensure the stable advancement of the city.

The president of the Overseas Chinese Association in Paris, Wang Jiaqing, said the core of Hong Kong's electoral reform should be abiding by the Basic Law and sticking to the principle that Hong Kong should be ruled by those who love Hong Kong and China.

Li Ruidong, secretary-general of the Zhejiang University Alumni Association of Japan, said the decision by the NPC Standing Committee reflects the general public opinion of Hong Kong and is conducive to the region's stability.

Hu Shiyun, chairman of the New Overseas Chinese Association of Japan, said Hong Kong has achieved notable development in various areas under the guidance of the "one country, two systems" policy, adding that a stable and prosperous Hong Kong is the common wish of the Hong Kong people and all Chinese as a whole.

Han Cunli, president of the Overseas Chinese General Council in Russia, stressed that it is in the interests of the Hong Kong people and the Chinese as a whole that candidates for Hong Kong's chief executive love Hong Kong and China.

Representatives of the Australian Chinese in Sydney said at a symposium on Hong Kong's electoral reform that the NPC Standing Committee made the decision out of the basic interests of the Hong Kong people, which represents a huge progress in the development of democracy in Hong Kong.

In Mexico, 15 Chinese societies issued a joint declaration to show staunch support for the reform decision.

To safeguard the prosperity and stability of Hong Kong is the mainstream public opinion in Hong Kong, while universal suffrage in the chief-executive election in 2017 is the aspiration of the majority of the Hong Kong people, the document said.

The stable development of Hong Kong since its return to China in 1997 testifies to the fact that the Basic Law is the highest guiding principle that suits the actual development condition of Hong Kong, it added.

Nouvelles d'Europe, a Chinese-language newspaper, said in an editorial that since Hong Kong's return to China, its political system has kept developing, with the electoral systems for its chief executive and legislature seeing steady improvement in accordance with the Basic Law.

The decision by the NPC Standing Committee set the tone for the future development of Hong Kong's democratic political system, it said.

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## xunzi

The Pro-beijing fraction is enough to deal with it.

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## Kolaps

TaiShang said:


> *Experts, overseas Chinese support Beijing's decision on Hong Kong's electoral reform*
> 
> Foreign experts and overseas Chinese have spoken positively of a decision by China's top legislature on Hong Kong's electoral reform, saying it is of great significance to the development and prosperity of Hong Kong.
> 
> ...........................................



Foreign experts and overseas Chinese are not, nor related to US.

They are not democracy.

They are not representing democracy!


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## TaiShang

Talkers do talking. Doers do doing. 

*Xi reassures HK of stability*

President Xi Jinping voiced confidence in Hong Kong's future on Monday, saying Beijing will firmly support the city to promote democracy in line with the law and uphold its prosperity and stability.




President Xi Jinping welcomes a Hong Kong business delegation headed by former Hong Kong chief executive Tung Chee-hwa (left) in the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on Monday. [Rao Aimin / Xinhua]

The central government's basic policies toward Hong Kong have not changed and will not change, Xi said, stressing Beijing's adherence to the "One Country, Two Systems" policy and the Basic Law.

Xi made the remarks in Beijing while receiving a delegation of nearly 70 tycoons and business leaders from Hong Kong.

It was the first time the president has met a Hong Kong delegation since the top legislature adopted a framework for the city's 2017 universal election of the chief executive, including details that Hong Kong voters would select a new chief executive from an approved list.

Wang Zhenmin, dean of the School of Law at Tsinghua University, said Xi's remarks aim to reassure Hong Kong people about Beijing's policies, especially the businessmen and investors who have great influence on the city's prosperity and stability.

"The communication between Beijing and the Hong Kong business sector is now very necessary, though they used to speak little about politics," Wang said. "Hong Kong businessmen are eager to know more about the central government's policies as they have some concern about uncertainties over the election."

The delegation was led by former chief executive Tung Chee-hwa, who is now a vice-chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. Some of Hong Kong's richest people, including Li Ka-shing and Cheng Kar-shun, were part of the delegation to Beijing.

Chan Wing-kee, managing director of Yangtzekiang Garment, said the delegation voiced its support of the central government's decision on Hong Kong's election and had a further discussion about political reform in Hong Kong.

Henry Tang Ying-yen, former chief secretary for administration of Hong Kong, hoped Hong Kong people would express their political thoughts legally, instead of through a mass sit-in.

Tang, a failed chief executive contender in 2012, said he would like to continue to serve Hong Kong people and hoped someone who "loves the country and loves Hong Kong" would take the office of chief executive.

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## Kolaps

Beijing is not democracy.

US is democracy.


The protests will continue until democracy achieved!


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## cnleio

"8.9" Tian An Men's student unrest in today HongKong


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## Fukuoka

Once the JEW NATO democrats will parasite the central place, the chinese police can't do anything like in Maidan






Tertiary students in Hong Kong have joined the territory’s growing pro-democracy movement.

Thousands have staged a sit-in, calling on the Chinese Communist Party to reverse its refusal to allow local people to freely choose their next leader.

Students from more than 20 universities and colleges will this week boycott their classes.

Hong Kong is a former British colony that was returned to Chinese rule in 1997.

The city was offered a high degree of autonomy, but last month Beijing rejected demands for an election open to any candidates.

The student sit-in is the latest in a series of rallies against the planned electoral reform.


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## kolinsky

Kolaps said:


> DPP is the US bestfriend.
> 
> US is democracy!
> 
> So yes, DPP is democracy!


I think AIT has abandoned DPP in the volt 2016. They have implied so clearly that who is supported by USA.

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## donkeypunch

CBS/APSeptember 22, 2014, 12:57 PM
*Students demand democracy in Hong Kong strike*




Students raise their fists during a rally at the Chinese University of Hong Kong campus in Hong Kong, Monday, Sept. 22, 2014. AP Photo/Vincent Yu

*HONG KONG* -- Thousands of Hong Kong college and university students boycotted classes Monday to protest Beijing's decision to restrict voting reforms, the start of a week-long strike that marks the latest phase in the battle for democracy in the southern Chinese city.

The strike comes as dozens of the city's tycoons and business leaders paid a rare group visit to Beijing to meet with China's communist leaders, who want to bolster support from Hong Kong's pro-establishment billionaire elites for the central government's policies on the semi-autonomous city.

Student organizers are dismayed over Beijing's decision in August to rule out open nominations for candidates under proposed guidelines for the first-ever elections for Hong Kong's top leader, promised for 2017.

Discontent over democratic reform is especially acute among Hong Kong's young people, who worry about their prospects amid widening inequality they blame on billionaire tycoons whose companies control vast parts of the economy and who have Beijing's ear.

In July, more than 500 protesters were arrested during an overnight sit-in, following a rally that drew more roughly 100,000 people.

The National People's Congress, China's legislature, insists election candidates be vetted by a committee. Many of the tycoons visiting Beijing are part of a similar body that selects Hong Kong's leaders.

Hong Kong's democracy battle has led to increasing tension and division, with activists threatening to stage a mass "occupation" of the Asian financial hub's central business district as early as Oct. 1 as part of a civil disobedience campaign to press their demands.

China took control of the former British colony in 1997, agreeing to let it keep civil liberties unseen on the mainland and promising that the leader can eventually be chosen through "universal suffrage." But Beijing's insistence on screening candidates for patriotism to China has stoked fears among democracy groups that Hong Kong will never get genuine democracy.

"The student strike will mark the turning point of the democratic movement," Alex Chow, secretary general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, told about 13,000 students from 24 schools rallying at the Chinese University of Hong Kong's suburban campus. "We will not have illusions in the government anymore, but we'll have faith in ourselves. We are willing to pay the price for democracy."

Students plan to gather daily for the rest of the week in a downtown park next to government headquarters. A smaller group of high schoolers plans to join the strike on Friday.

"Preselected candidates by a controlled nominating committee can only represent vested interests, but not the general public," Chow said. He urged Hong Kong's government to respond to demands for public nominations and to reform the legislature.

"If we hear nothing from them, the students, the people will definitely upgrade the movement to another level," Chow said.

About 380 academics and other school staff have signed a petition supporting the students, saying they should not "stand alone."

"At the minimum, they (the strikers) can provide a wakeup call to tens of thousands of university and secondary school students in Hong Kong," said Dixon Sing, a political science professor at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology who helped start the signature campaign. The organizers are "trying to inspire many other fellow classmates to be aware of and be devoted to the democratic movement," he said.

In Beijing, more than 60 Hong Kong tycoons, including Li Ka-shing, Asia's richest person, met with President Xi Jinping. It's only the second time such a big delegation has visited Beijing since the 1997 handover. In 2003, a similar entourage made the trip after a huge protest against unpopular legislation.

The tycoons urged democracy activists to avoid a confrontation, saying Beijing won't change its mind.

"Hong Kong is a financial center, and if the main financial district is messed up, then Hong Kong will be ruined," billionaire property developer Lee Shau-kee told reporters after arriving in Beijing on Sunday night.

© 2014 CBS Interactive Inc.
The Associated Press contributed to this report. 


Democracy ? UH OH !!


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## Edison Chen

Too young too simple. Students are the most vulnerable to instigation. When they are older, they will know what's really best for themselves and Hongkong, because they are only being used as political tools.

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## Jlaw

Lol...these students look like wimps. probably never been in a real fight before. Take arms and fight or go home and play video games.

This man can handle the students, lol.


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## Jlaw

DoTell said:


> Only one week short? Why don't they take the rest of the year off for what I care. They waited a hundred years under their British master and never made a fart about it. What's the rush now?


Because second week they have a quiz worth 5%. They can't skip it.

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## Genesis

Hong Kong isn't Beijing, almost nothing would happen if we do nothing. They can stay there as long as they like.

In fact Chinese government should send food and water to them. to let them know, they can grow old there if they want to. Nobody cares.

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## dlclong

too young too naive

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## dlclong

too young too naive

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## TaiShang

dlclong said:


> too young too naive



Indeed. They are naive to the point of stupidity. I observed a similar youth attitude during anti-trade agreement protests in Taiwan. Democracy s for them is a kind of fashion or star boy band to queue or cheer about. These guys are not deep thinkers, they are empty as tin can. Hence the sound they make surpasses their actual size and ability.

The reality has been voiced one learned commentator, Chinese Nationalist and I quote:

"The Most Important Thing is that China is Firmly Unified under a Powerful Central Government, with a Powerful Modern Military, and Lead by the Vanguard.

This is the one and only Historically Correct form of Government for the Chinese Nation. *We must truly hate, despise, and reject those bourgeois liberal western conceptions of a divided politics and a divided state - and the arrogant foreigners who dare think we would ever desire such a ugly and divided system and to see our Nation driven into the ground of chaos, civil strife, and territorial dissolution. Western "democracy" may perplex the useless so called ("intellectuals"), but we see it for what it is - an ugly divisive concept, which has no place in Chinese hearts, and must never be allowed to take root in this socialist land.*

No, we want all their foreign divisive ideas out of China ! Never can western conceptions of democracy take root anywhere in China. The People must vigilantly guard against and mercilessly stomp out any such influences - which would threaten China's Territorial Integrity and National Unity !

*All Chinese must firmly understand that the Chinese Nation must never fall behind the West - Militarily and Technologically. That a ever more Advanced and Powerful Military, under a Powerful Centralized State, and Lead by the Vanguard - is the truest safeguard of the Nation's Territorial Integrity, Sovereignty, and National Unity.*

We don't care or want the damned ideas of the foreigners, which threaten Our Nation's Unity, Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity. We must march in Lockstep Unity, All 1.3 Billion Hearts as One, for the Great Rejuvenation of the Motherland.

A Most Powerful, Sovereign, Prosperous, and Unified Chinese Nation ! A Most Powerful, Proud, and Prosperous Motherland. This Chinese Dream, the Struggle of All Chinese Generations, of all the People's Heroes since 1839, will at long last be fulfilled ! *Chinese Countrymen and Compatriots must reject all the harmful western distractions, put all petty individual differences aside, and Achieve this Chinese Dream at all and any costs !*

This Alone is True Happiness for the Chinese People and the Chinese Nation ! Unswervingly follow the Vanguard and Defender of the Nation, leading all classes and nationalities forward, with one heart and mind, in Lockstep Unity, towards the Great Rejuvenation of the Chinese Nation !

Then, there shall Never Again be any doubt, crisis, or confusion in Our Nation's Future !"

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## dlclong

TaiShang said:


> Indeed. They are naive to the point of stupidity. A observed a similar youth attitude during anti-trade agreement protests in Taiwan. Democracy s for them is a kind of fashion or star boy band to queue or cheer about. These guys are not deep thinkers, they are empty as tin can. Hence the sound they make surpasses their actual size and ability.
> 
> The reality has been voiced one learned commentator, Chinese Nationalist and I quote:
> 
> "The Most Important Thing is that China is Firmly Unified under a Powerful Central Government, with a Powerful Modern Military, and Lead by the Vanguard.
> 
> This is the one and only Historically Correct form of Government for the Chinese Nation. *We must truly hate, despise, and reject those bourgeois liberal western conceptions of a divided politics and a divided state - and the arrogant foreigners who dare think we would ever desire such a ugly and divided system and to see our Nation driven into the ground of chaos, civil strife, and territorial dissolution. Western "democracy" may perplex the useless so called ("intellectuals"), but we see it for what it is - an ugly divisive concept, which has no place in Chinese hearts, and must never be allowed to take root in this socialist land.*
> 
> No, we want all their foreign divisive ideas out of China ! Never can western conceptions of democracy take root anywhere in China. The People must vigilantly guard against and mercilessly stomp out any such influences - which would threaten China's Territorial Integrity and National Unity !
> 
> *All Chinese must firmly understand that the Chinese Nation must never fall behind the West - Militarily and Technologically. That a ever more Advanced and Powerful Military, under a Powerful Centralized State, and Lead by the Vanguard - is the truest safeguard of the Nation's Territorial Integrity, Sovereignty, and National Unity.*
> 
> We don't care or want the damned ideas of the foreigners, which threaten Our Nation's Unity, Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity. We must march in Lockstep Unity, All 1.3 Billion Hearts as One, for the Great Rejuvenation of the Motherland.
> 
> A Most Powerful, Sovereign, Prosperous, and Unified Chinese Nation ! A Most Powerful, Proud, and Prosperous Motherland. This Chinese Dream, the Struggle of All Chinese Generations, of all the People's Heroes since 1839, will at long last be fulfilled ! *Chinese Countrymen and Compatriots must reject all the harmful western distractions, put all petty individual differences aside, and Achieve this Chinese Dream at all and any costs !*
> 
> This Alone is True Happiness for the Chinese People and the Chinese Nation ! Unswervingly follow the Vanguard and Defender of the Nation, leading all classes and nationalities forward, with one heart and mind, in Lockstep Unity, towards the Great Rejuvenation of the Chinese Nation !
> 
> Then, there shall Never Again be any doubt, crisis, or confusion in Our Nation's Future !"

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## Jlaw

dlclong said:


> too young too naive


Look at their pictures. Look like none of them have even gotten one fist fight in their life and they want to be little emperors.

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> Look at their pictures. Look like none of them have even gotten one fist fight in their life and they want to be little emperors.



I do not worry about their sit-in. I worry about the mess they will leave behind after they got tired of sitting and s****ing in the same place and left the place. Sanitation workers will have to work overtime.

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## TaiShang

Genesis said:


> Hong Kong isn't Beijing, almost nothing would happen if we do nothing. They can stay there as long as they like.
> 
> In fact Chinese government should send food and water to them. to let them know, they can grow old there if they want to. Nobody cares.



LOL. Indeed. 

They will likely take a gazillion pictures with their smartphones, listen to latest hit Korean boy band, walk around aimlessly a little bit, then got bored because it is not cool anymore. Just advise them to maintain sanitation while they enjoy the cool stuff.

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## Kolaps

Big thanks to US for organizing it!

US always have a very strong base in HK school. Half of HK schools are Christian schools.





TaiShang said:


> LOL. Indeed.
> 
> They will likely take a gazillion pictures with their smartphones, listen to latest hit Korean boy band, walk around aimlessly a little bit, then got bored because it is not cool anymore. Just advise them to maintain sanitation while they enjoy the cool stuff.



Whatever you say!

As long as they are looked good for the camera, that's enough.

Hold the flags and banners, cheers and now go home! You are not that useful anymore!

But Beijing is on fire right now!

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## jkroo

First don't violate the laws.
They are well trained by US and UK. We all saw the report from HK even the training photos that were taken by HKer. Lets wait and see.

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## TaiShang

Kolaps said:


> Whatever you say!
> As long as they are looked good for the camera, that's enough.
> Hold the flags and banners, cheers and now go home! You are not that useful anymore!
> *But Beijing is on fire right now!*



How you might possibly know? 

Beijing has never been as confident, in my view. Otherwise, how could all these economic and social reforms be possible? 

Remember, Beijing handles the issue without showing a single teeth.

How did the US handle the OWS movement? They deployed robocops and pepper sprayed and brutalized people.

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## Jlaw

dlclong said:


> too young too naive


Too young, watching too many Hollywood movies...



TaiShang said:


> How you might possibly know?
> 
> Beijing has never been as confident, in my view. Otherwise, how could all these economic and social reforms be possible?
> 
> Remember, Beijing handles the issue without showing a single teeth.
> 
> How did the US handle the OWS movement? They deployed robocops and pepper sprayed and brutalized people.


It's true but sometimes I wish a cop would rough up some of these tofu boys and see them cry on camera.

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## Kolaps

TaiShang said:


> Indeed. They are naive to the point of stupidity. I observed a similar youth attitude during anti-trade agreement protests in Taiwan. Democracy s for them is a kind of fashion or star boy band to queue or cheer about. These guys are not deep thinkers, they are empty as tin can. Hence the sound they make surpasses their actual size and ability.
> 
> ....................................................



Young people overthrown the ruling party in Egypt and Ukraine!


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## TaiShang

Kolaps said:


> Young people overthrown the ruling party in Egypt and Ukraine!



You are geopolitically naive and I do not know why I am even talking to you. 

No, it was armed groups with covert foreign operators coupled with intense international pressure that brought down the governments.

It was not young people abusing and killing Gaddafi, but imported armed terrorists. 

And what happened in Egypt now? 

Ukraine is a NATO project going wrong? And did you hear about Crimea?

In Syria, if foreign terrorists are removed, the entire nation is firmly behind their government. Without popular support, do you think the government would be able to take back Hums?

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> Too young, watching too many Hollywood movies...
> 
> 
> It's true but sometimes I wish a cop would rough up some of these tofu boys and see them cry on camera.



I guess this is a calculated move. An action creates a reaction. No reaction may kill off the initial action. Maybe it is better for Beijing to mostly remain silent and wait all the foreign incited separatism to die off naturally due to lack of response from the corresponding party/side.

Real Hong Kong has already showed how they are firmly behind the national unity.

But, I hope strong and ruthless action (covert, maybe) against foreign inciters and provocateurs in Hong Kong. I wish them to be mysteriously disappear. They are the root cause of the problem.

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## Genesis

TaiShang said:


> LOL. Indeed.
> 
> They will likely take a gazillion pictures with their smartphones, listen to latest hit Korean boy band, walk around aimlessly a little bit, then got bored because it is not cool anymore. Just advise them to maintain sanitation while they enjoy the cool stuff.



actually, maybe we should just allow it. HK will eventually and possibly sooner now, lose its special economic status, and will destroy its economy.

Why take this blame, let the HK people choose their own leader who can't do anything to alter Chinese policies for China, not HK, like the special economic zones in Shanghai and more.

Don't let the blame fall on us when they are riding off into the sunset and straight into the unemployment office.


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## dlclong

*U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*

据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。

该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。

公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。


















爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）

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## dlclong

*U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*

据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。

该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。

公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。

















爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）

























Source: Students demand democracy in Hong Kong strike...

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## TaiShang

Genesis said:


> actually, maybe we should just allow it. HK will eventually and possibly sooner now, lose its special economic status, and will destroy its economy.
> 
> Why take this blame, let the HK people choose their own leader who can't do anything to alter Chinese policies for China, not HK, like the special economic zones in Shanghai and more.
> 
> Don't let the blame fall on us when they are riding off into the sunset and straight into the unemployment office.



The government should not/cannot show any sign of weakness, in my opinion. Challenging China's territorial sovereignty is an act of war according to the supreme law of the nation, the Constitution. I would hope the leadership to abide by the supreme law when/if comes to that point, although I seriously doubt it would.

Poor or not, HK is part of China and their people are subject of the Chinese nation.



dlclong said:


> *U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
> 美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*
> 
> 据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。
> 
> 该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。
> 
> 公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。
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> 爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）
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Now China should take prompt and severe action against those foreign/US elements inciting violence and separatism. These people are no less terrorists than Kunming attackers. At least those terrorists do not disguise as diplomats or intellectuals.

Now we will see the resolve and hitting back capability of the Chinese government. At times "awe and shock" does wonders.

Essentially, government should remain soft to the innocent/duped youth while severely tracking and punishing foreign/US elements.

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## kolinsky

TaiShang said:


> Indeed. They are naive to the point of stupidity. I observed a similar youth attitude during anti-trade agreement protests in Taiwan. Democracy s for them is a kind of fashion or star boy band to queue or cheer about. These guys are not deep thinkers, they are empty as tin can. Hence the sound they make surpasses their actual size and ability.
> 
> The reality has been voiced one learned commentator, Chinese Nationalist and I quote:
> 
> "The Most Important Thing is that China is Firmly Unified under a Powerful Central Government, with a Powerful Modern Military, and Lead by the Vanguard.
> 
> This is the one and only Historically Correct form of Government for the Chinese Nation. *We must truly hate, despise, and reject those bourgeois liberal western conceptions of a divided politics and a divided state - and the arrogant foreigners who dare think we would ever desire such a ugly and divided system and to see our Nation driven into the ground of chaos, civil strife, and territorial dissolution. Western "democracy" may perplex the useless so called ("intellectuals"), but we see it for what it is - an ugly divisive concept, which has no place in Chinese hearts, and must never be allowed to take root in this socialist land.*
> 
> No, we want all their foreign divisive ideas out of China ! Never can western conceptions of democracy take root anywhere in China. The People must vigilantly guard against and mercilessly stomp out any such influences - which would threaten China's Territorial Integrity and National Unity !
> 
> *All Chinese must firmly understand that the Chinese Nation must never fall behind the West - Militarily and Technologically. That a ever more Advanced and Powerful Military, under a Powerful Centralized State, and Lead by the Vanguard - is the truest safeguard of the Nation's Territorial Integrity, Sovereignty, and National Unity.*
> 
> We don't care or want the damned ideas of the foreigners, which threaten Our Nation's Unity, Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity. We must march in Lockstep Unity, All 1.3 Billion Hearts as One, for the Great Rejuvenation of the Motherland.
> 
> A Most Powerful, Sovereign, Prosperous, and Unified Chinese Nation ! A Most Powerful, Proud, and Prosperous Motherland. This Chinese Dream, the Struggle of All Chinese Generations, of all the People's Heroes since 1839, will at long last be fulfilled ! *Chinese Countrymen and Compatriots must reject all the harmful western distractions, put all petty individual differences aside, and Achieve this Chinese Dream at all and any costs !*
> 
> This Alone is True Happiness for the Chinese People and the Chinese Nation ! Unswervingly follow the Vanguard and Defender of the Nation, leading all classes and nationalities forward, with one heart and mind, in Lockstep Unity, towards the Great Rejuvenation of the Chinese Nation !
> 
> Then, there shall Never Again be any doubt, crisis, or confusion in Our Nation's Future !"


Because the sunflower movement, I am tracing news from Taiwan. I donot think that the Taiwan young people has the potential and thought they claimed in sunflower movement. All their new thoughts are not newly developed but from DPP. Many of them is claimed at least once by Tsai Ing-wen in 2012. They were repeating the slogans from DPP.

The sunflower movement even not match the young people's expected interest. A changing market brings oppotunities, and the young people is the group lack of oppotunities to establish their own careers. However, they said no to their oppotunities and stood for the former generation's interest. This is the first conflict in there slogans and activities.

The second conflict is that Anti-ECFA indeed protected the monopoly interest of consortium. For example the Lian Tsian group, which has monopoly interest over the both side. A relatively incestuous business grows the monopoly interest of consortiums. However, the sunflower movement claimed that they are against consortiums. They even had no idea, the openning market is unique way to against consortiums.

The third conflict is that the groups they supported did not support the young people. Two frequently mentioned industries: beauty-industry and car rantal industry are supporting ECFA, because it brings more jobs in beauty industry and new market in car rantal industry. However, the young people cited the slogans of several DPP political lawers' assumption and incorrectly stood in the opposite side of the industry to "support" the industry.

As an aftermath, I have to say the whole sunflower movement was a stupidity. I traced the attitude of USA. In Mar. 17th they were pleased to invite Taiwan to join the TPP, but the attitude was changed in Mar. 25th. The USA said, Taiwan should reform its economy first. It implied that Taiwan was excluded from TPP. The RCEP was also closed. Although the sunflower movement pleased young people all over the world, but they donot please the politicians. Supporting Japan and USA like @Kolaps is personal. Whether USA supports them, is the key problem. The sunflower movement is a self-centred and narcissistic.

Although DPP said the sunflower movement is not organized by them, but the slogans are entirely from them. As a volting strategy it is successful, especially for Tsai Ing-wen a single person. As a perlude of volt 2016, the cost for Taiwan society is too high. As I observed, the Taiwan young people are brainwashed by Tsai and her empty political ideals. She may win the volting, but win the supporting from China and USA is another thing.

The industry sector is escaping from Taiwan. If Taiwan cannot go back to the traditional route, the next escaping sector will be finances and services. The first wave of escaping of finance may come in late 2014 or early 2015. Although many scholars in Taiwan alarmed the society, but the young people have apparently completedly exceeded their professors for the “success” of sunflower movement.

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## hans

US is the most despotism among democracy countries
China is the most democracy among despotism country



Kolaps said:


> DPP is the US bestfriend.
> 
> US is democracy!
> 
> So yes, DPP is democracy!


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## Jlaw

dlclong said:


> *U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
> 美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*
> 
> 据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。
> 
> 该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。
> 
> 公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。
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> Source: Students demand democracy in Hong Kong strike...


Their parents must be proud of their hanjian children.

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## Beidou2020

China must put severe restrictions on all American and British NGOs and all their diplomats.

They must be put under 24/7 surveillance.

These protestors are being paid and urged by the US NGO's and diplomats and intelligence agencies to cause trouble in HK.

CPC must be a lot more ruthless to put an end to nonsense. Do what the Russians did in kicking out USAID.


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## GeHAC

Spoiled students.

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## GeHAC

dlclong said:


> *U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
> 美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*
> 
> 据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。
> 
> 该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。
> 
> 公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。
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> 
> 爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）
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> Source: Students demand democracy in Hong Kong strike...



I'm really doubtful whether current CCP has enough political wisdom to grasp the moral highground.


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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> The government should not/cannot show any sign of weakness, in my opinion. Challenging China's territorial sovereignty is an act of war according to the supreme law of the nation, the Constitution. I would hope the leadership to abide by the supreme law when/if comes to that point, although I seriously doubt it would.
> 
> Poor or not, HK is part of China and their people are subject of the Chinese nation.
> 
> 
> 
> Now China should take prompt and severe action against those foreign/US elements inciting violence and separatism. These people are no less terrorists than Kunming attackers. At least those terrorists do not disguise as diplomats or intellectuals.
> 
> Now we will see the resolve and hitting back capability of the Chinese government. At times "awe and shock" does wonders.
> 
> Essentially, government should remain soft to the innocent/duped youth while severely tracking and punishing foreign/US elements.



China must put severe restrictions on all American and British NGOs and all their diplomats.

They must be put under 24/7 surveillance.

These protestors are being paid and urged by the US NGO's and diplomats and intelligence agencies to cause trouble in HK.

CPC must be a lot more ruthless to put an end to nonsense. Do what the Russians did in kicking out USAID.

As you said, these foreign funders and instigators must be arrested and punished for inciting separatism inside China.

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## cnleio

I have no idea, How a 17-age young student try to change HK politics ?!

She/He must be the GENIUS or the FOOL, keep going let's see how HK student protests destroy HK local economy and millions of mainland customers will leave the poor "Free City" turn to ShangHai, let HK students feed their own economy.


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## DoTell

The ukrainian antigovernmentists overplayed their hands and ended up with less 'freedom'. The same will happen to Hong Kong too if these idiots don't know when to stop.

Look I know it can be confusing sometimes with all the foreign media fanning, instigating riots. The general rule of thumbs is that whatever BBC, CNN or Indian cheer leaders want China do or not do, you just do the opposite. Sending China to chaos is their dream. So we will stay united and prosper! These people will never stop bitching about China. The more they do the more confident we should feel that we are doing the right things.

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## Kolaps

cnleio said:


> I have no idea, How a 17-age young student try to change HK politics ?!
> 
> She/He must be the GENIUS or the FOOL, keep going let's see how HK student protests destroy HK local economy and millions of mainland customers will leave the poor "Free City" turn to ShangHai, let HK students feed their own economy.



Behind 17 years old students, there's *SUPERPOWER*!


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## Kolaps

Beidou2020 said:


> China must put severe restrictions on all American and British NGOs and all their diplomats.
> 
> They must be put under 24/7 surveillance.
> 
> These protestors are being paid and urged by the US NGO's and diplomats and intelligence agencies to cause trouble in HK.
> 
> CPC must be a lot more ruthless to put an end to nonsense. Do what the Russians did in kicking out USAID.
> 
> As you said, these foreign funders and instigators must be arrested and punished for inciting separatism inside China.



Russia just recently passed *Anti Foreign Agent law*.



> In July 2012, legislators from the governing United Russia party introduced draft legislation 102766-6 which requires non-profit organizations that receive foreign donations and serve as the instrument of a foreign power to register as foreign agents.
> 
> ...........................................................
> 
> Law enforcement officers in Russia have raided the offices of several organizations to seize documents and records related to their operation. Several prominent international organizations have been targeted, including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Transparency International. Overall, than 55 organizations in 16 Russian regions have been audited. These raids are often joined by journalists from NTV, which has aired programs which accuse human rights and opposition activists of pushing the interests of the United States.
> 
> Russia's only independent election monitoring organization, the GOLOS Association, which is funded in part by the US National Endowment for Democracy, was fined $10,000 for failing to register under the law.
> 
> Russian foreign agent law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Should HK, China and Taiwan do that too?

It definitely targeted US funded NGOs.

If US out, it means democracy, free speech and free press out too.


For people in China, HK and Taiwan, which one you choose: Sovereignty or Democracy?

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## dlclong

GeHAC said:


> I'm really doubtful whether current CCP has enough political wisdom to grasp the moral highground.


Do not worry, now much better than before, some time ago there are more people who support the Beijing parade is it.？！haha, Over time, like Taiwan, these ignorant students,Will have a negative impact to Hong Kong， will only make more people standing across from them. 

台湾之前反服贸，但之后呢，很多人明白了之后，却是很多人又开始骂这些领头的，几天前有货贸协议，领头的学生又开始反对，但这次，基本上没人跟在他们后面支持了，呵呵


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## cnleio

Kolaps said:


> Behind 17 years old students, there's *SUPERPOWER*!


Like TaiWan* "SUPERPOWER"* seized Legislative Yuan , let's see ur *"SUPERPOWER"* how to govern TaiWan in next 10~20 years.

Now playing game in TaiWan, soon ur generations will call mainland of China as *"BOSS"*.

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## Kolaps

kolinsky said:


> Because the sunflower movement, I am tracing news from Taiwan. I donot think that the Taiwan young people has the potential and thought they claimed in sunflower movement. All their new thoughts are not newly developed but from DPP. Many of them is claimed at least once by Tsai Ing-wen in 2012. They were repeating the slogans from DPP.
> 
> The sunflower movement even not match the young people's expected interest. A changing market brings oppotunities, and the young people is the group lack of oppotunities to establish their own careers. However, they said no to their oppotunities and stood for the former generation's interest. This is the first conflict in there slogans and activities.
> 
> The second conflict is that Anti-ECFA indeed protected the monopoly interest of consortium. For example the Lian Tsian group, which has monopoly interest over the both side. A relatively incestuous business grows the monopoly interest of consortiums. However, the sunflower movement claimed that they are against consortiums. They even had no idea, the openning market is unique way to against consortiums.
> 
> The third conflict is that the groups they supported did not support the young people. Two frequently mentioned industries: beauty-industry and car rantal industry are supporting ECFA, because it brings more jobs in beauty industry and new market in car rantal industry. However, the young people cited the slogans of several DPP political lawers' assumption and incorrectly stood in the opposite side of the industry to "support" the industry.
> 
> As an aftermath, I have to say the whole sunflower movement was a stupidity. I traced the attitude of USA. In Mar. 17th they were pleased to invite Taiwan to join the TPP, but the attitude was changed in Mar. 25th. The USA said, Taiwan should reform its economy first. It implied that Taiwan was excluded from TPP. The RCEP was also closed. Although the sunflower movement pleased young people all over the world, but they donot please the politicians. Supporting Japan and USA like @Kolaps is personal. Whether USA supports them, is the key problem. The sunflower movement is a self-centred and narcissistic.
> 
> Although DPP said the sunflower movement is not organized by them, but the slogans are entirely from them. As a volting strategy it is successful, especially for Tsai Ing-wen a single person. As a perlude of volt 2016, the cost for Taiwan society is too high. As I observed, the Taiwan young people are brainwashed by Tsai and her empty political ideals. She may win the volting, but win the supporting from China and USA is another thing.
> 
> The industry sector is escaping from Taiwan. If Taiwan cannot go back to the traditional route, the next escaping sector will be finances and services. The first wave of escaping of finance may come in late 2014 or early 2015. Although many scholars in Taiwan alarmed the society, but the young people have apparently completedly exceeded their professors for the “success” of sunflower movement.



US is democracy.

DPP and Sunflower movement are friends of US. So both of them are democracy too!


Tsai Ing-wen is democracy!








DoTell said:


> The ukrainian antigovernmentists overplayed their hands and ended up with less 'freedom'. The same will happen to Hong Kong too if these idiots don't know when to stop.
> 
> Look I know it can be confusing sometimes with all the foreign media fanning, instigating riots. The general rule of thumbs is that whatever BBC, CNN or Indian cheer leaders want China do or not do, you just do the opposite. Sending China to chaos is their dream. So we will stay united and prosper! These people will never stop bitching about China. The more they do the more confident we should feel that we are doing the right things.



Is that bad if US... I mean democracy finally came to Ukraine?

The media are cheering and people are celebrating!


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## kolinsky

cnleio said:


> Like TaiWan* "SUPERPOWER"* seized Legislative Yuan , let's see ur *"SUPERPOWER"* how to govern TaiWan in next 10~20 years.
> 
> Now playing game in TaiWan, soon ur generations will call mainland of China as *"BOSS"*.
> 
> View attachment 80644
> 
> View attachment 80645
> 
> View attachment 80646
> 
> View attachment 80647
> 
> View attachment 80648


If that is the future, just do it and last forever.

Some dead slogans in Culture Revolution come back in Taiwan. It seems that the 30 years blaming teaches the Taiwan young people how to implement a revolution rather than demoralizing the CCP China.

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## kolinsky

GeHAC said:


> I'm really doubtful whether current CCP has enough political wisdom to grasp the moral highground.





Kolaps said:


> US is democracy.
> 
> DPP and Sunflower movement are friends of US. So both of them are democracy too!
> 
> 
> Tsai Ing-wen is democracy!
> 
> View attachment 80723
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that bad if US... I mean democracy finally came to Ukraine?
> 
> The media are cheering and people are celebrating!


Ja, that is democracy, redo it again and repeatedly. The Taiwan news are boring in these days, I want to see some braking news. Why not burn the KMT HQ down? That is funny, just do it, go, go, go, go!!!!


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## Okemos

How come Hong Kong never demanded universal suffrage from Britain, which is supposed to be birth place of modern domocracy? The CCP isn't really known for liberal democracy lol

Funny. But anyway, I support universal suffrage and refuse to have someone not elected by the people to make decisions for the people. Too much conflict of interests.

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## qwerrty

i bet they just want few days off hanging out with their friends. i was part of something similar to this when i was a student. i remember majority of us were just shouting out and laughing without clue what was going on

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## kolinsky

qwerrty said:


> i bet they just want few days off hanging out with their friends. i was part of something similar to this when i was a student. i remember majority of us were just shouting out and laughing without clue what was going on


There also occupying in Germany, I saw a used condom hanging on the tree..... Still occupying? they are really out.


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## aliaselin

The number is less than 100 on the third day 

【on.cc東網專訊】學聯罷課踏入第三日，添馬公園早上10時許的活動出席人數不足100人，由於今早陽光猛烈，不少參加人士躱在樹蔭下乘涼，添馬民主台講台有理工大學應用社會科學系專任導師鄭松泰博士主講，立法會討論區則有中大教育行政及政策系副教授蔡寶瓊主講，學聯預計下午2時會安排學生落區探訪清潔工，關注基層狀況。

另外，學聯下午3時將發起遊行，會由金鐘遊行到中環，然後再返回政府總部並掛上黃絲帶，活動預計會有50至100人參加。

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## Kolaps

^
Students are easily to get bored.

They easily carried away for something cool.


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## AgentOrange

Kolaps said:


> ^
> Students are easily to get bored.
> 
> They easily carried away for something cool.



Like you? Why don't you add something of substance instead of the same tired "Taiwah democrazy, US democrazy, all fliend democrazy! Fliends! Fliends!! Pikachu, Anime! Taiwah marry Japanese daddy!"

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## 风之南国

Kolaps said:


> DPP is the US bestfriend.
> 
> US is democracy!
> 
> So yes, DPP is democracy!


Taiwan is a deformity of democracy.

Student movement is foolish and irresponsible behavior.



aliaselin said:


> The number is less than 100 on the third day
> 
> 【on.cc東網專訊】學聯罷課踏入第三日，添馬公園早上10時許的活動出席人數不足100人，由於今早陽光猛烈，不少參加人士躱在樹蔭下乘涼，添馬民主台講台有理工大學應用社會科學系專任導師鄭松泰博士主講，立法會討論區則有中大教育行政及政策系副教授蔡寶瓊主講，學聯預計下午2時會安排學生落區探訪清潔工，關注基層狀況。
> 
> 另外，學聯下午3時將發起遊行，會由金鐘遊行到中環，然後再返回政府總部並掛上黃絲帶，活動預計會有50至100人參加。



不知道他们的工资是按小时还是按天算呢？

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## AgentOrange

All the Chinese government has to do is to insist the teachers of those student protesters take strict attendance of their classes. Anyone who doesn't show up gets 10% off their grade, each day he/she's not in class. Problem solved. 

At the end of the day, we all know that this isn't about democracy. It's about a bunch of naive self-loathing students who want to look "cool" but ultimately they care about economics more than some BS protest (otherwise they would have protested during non-democratic British rule). And when they are on the verge of flunking out due to not going to class, their true colors will show when they scurry back to their holes like the rats they are.

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## Kolaps

Why none of Taiwanese members here support democracy, DPP and Japan?

*风之南国*, what kind of member name is that? Definitely not from Taiwan.

Create a new member, with correct character!



AgentOrange said:


> Like you? Why don't you add something of substance instead of the same tired "Taiwah democrazy, US democrazy, all fliend democrazy! Fliends! Fliends!! Pikachu, Anime! Taiwah marry Japanese daddy!"



The reality...


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## 风之南国

Kolaps said:


> Why none of Taiwanese members here support democracy, DPP and Japan?
> 
> *风之南国*, what kind of member name is that? Definitely not from Taiwan.
> I support the KMT.
> 
> 
> The reality...


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## Kolaps

风之南国 said:


> I support the KMT.



The rest of mainland Chinese member here will hate you!

All of them are Stalin and Lenin fans! 

They are atheist, and dislike Christians like KMT and our so-great Christian GuoFu.


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## Fukuoka

> Angus Li, 19, a student at Hong Kong Baptist University. His shirt reads: "When dictatorship is a reality, revolution is a duty."Credit









> Rallying at Chinese University of Hong Kong on Monday, the beginning of a weeklong boycott of classes to protest Beijing's restrictions on choosing the city's next leader



http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...php=true&_type=blogs&partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=1

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## DoTell

Here are some more inspirations: Libya, Syria, Egypt, Ukraine.

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## Zsari

Kolaps said:


> Young people overthrown the ruling party in Egypt and Ukraine!



Are you trying to be sarcastic? Egypt went right back to military dictatorship and Ukraine is in the state of civil war.

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## Okemos

Kolaps said:


> The rest of mainland Chinese member here will hate you!
> 
> All of them are Stalin and Lenin fans!
> 
> They are atheist, and dislike Christians like KMT and our so-great Christian GuoFu.



lol , he'd better be careful lol. I never said I supported KMT or any party but do think that power won by civil war in my eyes' is illegitimate. Then some of those mainland Chinese members started calling me traitors, blah blah, haha. If the CCP enjoys power gained from civil war so much, would they like to taste their own medicine and other parties start overthrowing them? We must stay away from military coup and all those crazy civil wars that only uncivilized countries are going through. Only ordinary citizens will suffer in the end and the country itself will suffer major setbacks. Look what China has been going through. Therefore, a gradual transition to democracy where power can peaceful transfer from one party to another works best for the country. 

I have pretty much ignores those those Chinese members here who started bombarding me for my refusal to support their dear CCP. Funny how some people can be so indoctrinated. I am loyalist only to Chinese civilization, not to any political parties.

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## Jlaw

Okemos said:


> lol , he'd better be careful lol. I never said I supported KMT or any party but do think that power won by civil war in my eyes' is illegitimate. Then some of those mainland Chinese members started calling me traitors, blah blah, haha. If the CCP enjoys power gained from civil war so much, would they like to taste their own medicine and other parties start overthrowing them? We must stay away from military coup and all those crazy civil wars that only uncivilized countries are going through. Only ordinary citizens will suffer in the end and the country itself will suffer major setbacks. Look what China has been going through. Therefore, a gradual transition to democracy where power can peaceful transfer from one party to another works best for the country.
> 
> I have pretty much ignores those those Chinese members here who started bombarding me for my refusal to support their dear CCP. Funny how some people can be so indoctrinated. I am loyalist only to Chinese civilization, not to any political parties.



You do know that is how regimes changed hand throughout human history. If the students or whoever have enough guts to start a civil war and win, than they deserve to be the new rulers


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## TaiShang

kolinsky said:


> If that is the future, just do it and last forever.
> 
> Some dead slogans in Culture Revolution come back in Taiwan. It seems that the 30 years blaming teaches the Taiwan young people how to implement a revolution rather than demoralizing the CCP China.



Taiwan is a lost cause. The sooner they embrace the motherland, the better. The island has no future of its own: They are destined to be controlled either by Beijing, or by others.

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## dlclong

*U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*

据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。

该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。*美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。*“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。

公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。













爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）



















Source: Thousands of Hong Kong students start week-long boycott | Page 2

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## Jlaw

DoTell said:


> Here are some more inspirations: Libya, Syria, Egypt, Ukraine.


Ferguson, US

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## Kolaps

DoTell said:


> Here are some more inspirations: Libya, Syria, Egypt, Ukraine.




That is democracy! 

Middle Eastern and East European are known to be barbaric and uncultured people. But today, they finally can have democracy!

Just look all the people pouring on the street. All of them must be celebrate it.

Look at the policemen, they are worrying the party go wild and uncontrolled. But it definitely won't happen.


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## BoQ77

A Tiananmen square incident alike. 

We respect the choice of Hongkong citizens


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## Kolaps

^
What do you mean with the choice of HK citizens?

You mean those HK silent *majority*?

*NO!*

That is not democracy!

US is democracy!


You are living in Vietnam, a communist hellhole! 

What do you know about democracy anyway?


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## Aepsilons

Kolaps said:


> ^
> What do you mean with the choice of HK citizens?
> 
> You mean those HK silent *majority*?
> 
> *NO!*
> 
> That is not democracy!
> 
> US is democracy!
> 
> 
> You are living in Vietnam, a communist hellhole!
> 
> What do you know about democracy anyway?



What about Macau? I've been reading into the clamor in Hong Kong, but nothing is ever posted about Macau. 

What's your take on it?


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## Nan Yang

Jlaw said:


> Ferguson, US



The Ferguson man

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## Kolaps

TaiShang said:


> Taiwan is a lost cause. The sooner they embrace the motherland, the better. The island has no future of its own: They are destined to be controlled either by Beijing, or by others.



If you are in Taiwan, do you dare to say this?

If yes, we will make a huge pro-Chinese civilization protest and coup!

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## Kolaps

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What about Macau? I've been reading into the clamor in Hong Kong, but nothing is ever posted about Macau.
> 
> What's your take on it?



Macau people love to gamble.

But they lost in democracy and no democracy gambling.

So now, they go silent and work hard to pay their gambling debt.


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## FNFAL

Say in governance is the basic right right of humans, otherwise its just slavery with an alias


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## Aepsilons

Kolaps said:


> Macau people love to gamble.
> 
> But they lost in democracy and no democracy gambling.
> 
> *So now, they go silent and work hard to pay their gambling debt*.



Are you serious!? 

_你是個愛開玩笑_

_


Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:



的傻逼.

Click to expand...

停止！你無禮！
_


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## Kolaps

Okemos said:


> lol , he'd better be careful lol. I never said I supported KMT or any party but do think that power won by civil war in my eyes' is illegitimate. Then some of those mainland Chinese members started calling me traitors, blah blah, haha. If the CCP enjoys power gained from civil war so much, would they like to taste their own medicine and other parties start overthrowing them? We must stay away from military coup and all those crazy civil wars that only uncivilized countries are going through. Only ordinary citizens will suffer in the end and the country itself will suffer major setbacks. Look what China has been going through. Therefore, a gradual transition to democracy where power can peaceful transfer from one party to another works best for the country.
> 
> I have pretty much ignores those those Chinese members here who started bombarding me for my refusal to support their dear CCP. Funny how some people can be so indoctrinated. I am loyalist only to Chinese civilization, not to any political parties.





*The BEST Chinese member here in PDF!!!

This is the real true Chinese!!! *

I hope CCP, Christian KMT and DPP go to die! And don't forget to apologize to all Chinese people and ancestors!


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## FNFAL

The future gen must have a say n their choice of governance. Imposing slavery will not work in the long term.


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## Kolaps

Jlaw said:


> You do know that is how regimes changed hand throughout human history. If the students or whoever have enough guts to start a civil war and win, than they deserve to be the new rulers



Just like US backed pro-democracy young people protesters in HK, right?

By saying this, you want to say US have the right to back a coup in HK and deserve all the rewards after that.

As well as later for the rest of mainland China.

In expanse of Chinese civilian who just want a peaceful life and the rise of Chinese civilization without foreigner interfering.


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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Are you serious!?
> 
> _你是個愛開玩笑_


的傻逼.

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## TaiShang

Students are lucky that they will not be brutalized by a police clad with military grade equipment. Unlike poor US citizens. 

They may sit on campus or streets until their a** turn red, for all we concern. LOL,

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## Beidou2020

FNFAL said:


> Say in governance is the basic right right of humans, otherwise its just slavery with an alias



Nope.

Basic rights of humans is food and water.
Then shelter.
Then healthcare.
Then education.

Proper governance should provide all that. India dreadfully fails at all 4 of them considering the mass starvation, the lack of toilets, massive diseases and high illiteracy and lack of schools.

It's the failure of Hindu culture as your caste system is the greatest human rights abuse system man has ever created.

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## Kolaps

TaiShang said:


> View attachment 83822
> 
> 
> Students are lucky that they will not be brutalized by a police clad with military grade equipment. Unlike poor US citizens.
> 
> They may sit on campus or streets until their a** turn red, for all we concern. LOL,



US is democracy.

Black people in Ferguson are not democracy, the policemen are the democracy.

Students in Taiwan and HK are the democracy, the policemen are not democracy.

A very simple logic that most of members here unable to understand. What a bunch of idiots!


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## Fukuoka

Jlaw said:


> Ferguson, US


You can't compare the savageness of the US police showing their rifles ready to fire, with Maidan police ho fought with sticks against armed nazis


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## S10

Heh university students have been used as pawns by political forces throughout history. They're young and naive, but received just enough education to think they know it all. These are the easiest to manipulate, and they are always the first ones to start in any major political shift. Of course, after politicians are done with them, they get thrown aside and the cycle begins again. I was quite idealistic and hated the Communist Party in my late teen's and early 20's. I still don't like them, but I am also more pragmatic after these few years.


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## TaiShang

S10 said:


> Heh university students have been used as pawns by political forces throughout history. They're young and naive, but received just enough education to think they know it all. These are the easiest to manipulate, and they are always the first ones to start in any major political shift. Of course, after politicians are done with them, they get thrown aside and the cycle begins again. I was quite idealistic and hated the Communist Party in my late teen's and early 20's. I still don't like them, but I am also more pragmatic after these few years.



Good that Ferguson rioters were not that well educated. Blessed the US regime. LOL.


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## Aepsilons

You think that's bad? You should see the south side in Philadelphia at night.

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## TaiShang

*US-China confrontation disastrous for HK*

US consulate personnel in Hong Kong were revealed to have held meetings with student representatives who led the class boycott campaign. This news stirred up Hong Kong society, sparking heated discussion. 

Some students kicked off a week-long boycott of classes from September 22. The Hong Kong opposition camp now is busy with preparations to launch the "Occupy Central" protest during the National Day holidays. *Behind the scenes is external support from the US and the West, as has been proven by the latest media exposures*. 

Western support serves as an anchor to the pan-democracy camp. They are emboldened by Western champion, misperceiving what they are doing as a moral cause and misjudging the risks that "Occupy Central" could bring. 

Sino-US relations are complicated. Competition is a normal state of the bilateral relationship. *The more divergences Hong Kong has, the greater the possibility that it will draw attention from the US and be used as a card to trouble China. *

*The US has plenty of approaches to interfere in Hong Kong affairs, either through covert meddling, or blunt intervention. If China disregards the temporary turbulence in Hong Kong, the influence of US tactics will abate. *

From an overall perspective, China's strategic initiative in the China-US relationship has been on the rise. *The US influence on Hong Kong is not significant enough to be a trump card in competition with China. But the problem is that some radical forces in Hong Kong are catering to the US, which may increase US leverage. *

Hong Kong society should have a grand vision and be clearly aware of its position in the strategic rivalry between China and the US. Hongkongers should firmly object to radical forces, who are attempting to kidnap the destiny of the whole region for their own political ends. The US will inevitably stretch its hands into Hong Kong. If Hong Kong turns into a wrestling field of the US to hedge China's rise, that will be a disaster for all of Hong Kong. 

Washington hasn't started openly intervening in Hong Kong. The pan-democracy camp had better not count on that. Hong Kong's development cannot afford any direct collision and confrontation between China and the US in the region. China hopes for a prosperous Hong Kong with great sincerity and motivation.

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## andy_hujian

Nihonjin1051 said:


> You think that's bad? You should see the south side in Philadelphia at night.



You should go to South Chicago instead. 
I was driving on the road and I can't remember the name.
Even cops dare not go to that area.

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## Aepsilons

andy_hujian said:


> You should go to South Chicago instead.
> I was driving on the road and I can't remember the name.
> Even cops dare not go to that area.



That's too dangerous for me. I hear South side of chicago is the most dangerous place in the US.


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## andy_hujian

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That's too dangerous for me. I hear South side of chicago is the most dangerous place in the US.



Yes. People knock your door when you are waiting for traffic lights.
Shops on both sides of the streets have iron bars on the windows and doors.
A lot of people wandering on the streets selling drugs.....

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## Aepsilons

andy_hujian said:


> Yes. People knock your door when you are waiting for traffic lights.
> Shops on both sides of the streets have iron bars on the windows and doors.
> A lot of people wandering on the streets selling drugs.....



Oh that would send me on a Tachycardic episode! How do you know so much about the south side of Chicago? Are you from the Windy City?


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## AgentOrange

China should publicize a full list of names - American intelligence officials working out of the Hong Kong consulate and the Chinese traitors who met with them. These lists should be run on flat screens across Hong Kong, 24/7 so everyone knows who the traitors are. And then the Public Security Bureau can pay them a visit. Protesting for democracy is one thing. I don't inherently have a problem with the act of protesting or voicing dissent, no matter how hypocritical or stupid the protesters are. However, doing so with the backing of a foreign government and their intelligence agencies is treason. Traitors should be dealt with harshly.

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## andy_hujian

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Oh that would send me on a Tachycardic episode! How do you know so much about the south side of Chicago? Are you from the Windy City?



I went there many times when I was studying in Iowa. Now I moved to a Southeastern state.


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## Aepsilons

andy_hujian said:


> I went there many times when I was studying in Iowa. Now I moved to a Southeastern state.



I'm not so fortunate to have visited Chicago as much as you, but I did go there one time to attend a symposium. I stayed mostly in the Northside because the symposium was held at Loyola University by Chicago's Roger's Park area. Btw, there's quite a lively Vietnamese district in Uptown. Its by North Broadway St and Argyle St. 

^^,


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## andy_hujian

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I'm not so fortunate to have visited Chicago as much as you, but I did go there one time to attend a symposium. I stayed mostly in the Northside because the symposium was held at Loyola University by Chicago's Roger's Park area. Btw, there's quite a lively Vietnamese district in Uptown. Its by North Broadway St and Argyle St.
> 
> ^^,



North side has very good museums. I visited all of them.
Michigan lake is charming.


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## Aepsilons

andy_hujian said:


> North side has very good museums. I visited all of them.
> Michigan lake is charming.



I had the pleasure of walking the lake shore drive bike trail one time. (It was at the Belmont entrance) You're right, it is incredibly picturesque there.

I wish i had more time in Chicago, or to have been given the chance to live in the North Side/ River North district.

Well its good to know that you were there, too. These are experiences we look back to during our 'youth', eh? lol


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## andy_hujian

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I'm not so fortunate to have visited Chicago as much as you, but I did go there one time to attend a symposium. I stayed mostly in the Northside because the symposium was held at Loyola University by Chicago's Roger's Park area. Btw, there's quite a lively Vietnamese district in Uptown. Its by North Broadway St and Argyle St.
> 
> ^^,


BTW, a little off topic. Your post on the other day was translated by someone into a popular Chinese forum.
Tianya. I didn't realize you are so famous. 

See this:

各国网友大讨论：中国高铁好还是日本高铁好？_国际观察_天涯论坛

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## Aepsilons

andy_hujian said:


> BTW, a little off topic. Your post on the other day was translated by someone into a popular Chinese forum.
> Tianya. I didn't realize you are so famous.
> 
> See this:
> 
> 各国网友大讨论：中国高铁好还是日本高铁好？_国际观察_天涯论坛



Ha !


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## dlclong

*U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*

据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。

该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。*美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。*“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。

公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。

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## Aepsilons

So what are the objective(s) of these people? To make Hong Kong an independent city state? We all know that is unrealistic.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> *US-China confrontation disastrous for HK*
> 
> US consulate personnel in Hong Kong were revealed to have held meetings with student representatives who led the class boycott campaign. This news stirred up Hong Kong society, sparking heated discussion.
> 
> Some students kicked off a week-long boycott of classes from September 22. The Hong Kong opposition camp now is busy with preparations to launch the "Occupy Central" protest during the National Day holidays. *Behind the scenes is external support from the US and the West, as has been proven by the latest media exposures*.
> 
> Western support serves as an anchor to the pan-democracy camp. They are emboldened by Western champion, misperceiving what they are doing as a moral cause and misjudging the risks that "Occupy Central" could bring.
> 
> Sino-US relations are complicated. Competition is a normal state of the bilateral relationship. *The more divergences Hong Kong has, the greater the possibility that it will draw attention from the US and be used as a card to trouble China. *
> 
> *The US has plenty of approaches to interfere in Hong Kong affairs, either through covert meddling, or blunt intervention. If China disregards the temporary turbulence in Hong Kong, the influence of US tactics will abate. *
> 
> From an overall perspective, China's strategic initiative in the China-US relationship has been on the rise. *The US influence on Hong Kong is not significant enough to be a trump card in competition with China. But the problem is that some radical forces in Hong Kong are catering to the US, which may increase US leverage. *
> 
> Hong Kong society should have a grand vision and be clearly aware of its position in the strategic rivalry between China and the US. Hongkongers should firmly object to radical forces, who are attempting to kidnap the destiny of the whole region for their own political ends. The US will inevitably stretch its hands into Hong Kong. If Hong Kong turns into a wrestling field of the US to hedge China's rise, that will be a disaster for all of Hong Kong.
> 
> Washington hasn't started openly intervening in Hong Kong. The pan-democracy camp had better not count on that. Hong Kong's development cannot afford any direct collision and confrontation between China and the US in the region. China hopes for a prosperous Hong Kong with great sincerity and motivation.



This is something us Chinese patriots know for along time. Finally it's just published. The next part is, what is China going to do about it? Or better yet, now that the mainstream HK people know, what are the pro Chinese HK going to do about it?

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## FNFAL

Beidou2020 said:


> Nope.
> Basic rights of humans is food and water.
> Then shelter.
> Then healthcare.
> Then education.
> Proper governance should provide all that. India dreadfully fails at all 4 of them considering the mass starvation, the lack of toilets, massive diseases and high illiteracy and lack of schools.
> It's the failure of Hindu culture as your caste system is the greatest human rights abuse system man has ever created.



Where did India come in? There are multuiple cases of successul democracies all around you. Look at vibrant Korea or Japan or US.They excel everywhere...
Anyhow, we keep animals as pets and slaves of our will. Having no say in governance is like being animals, having to bear theabuse of the master

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## Cossack25A1

Maybe the US expects Hong Kong to be something like how it use to be a British protectorate until 1997.


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## Hyperion

Yanks doing what they always do. Just deport such people under "persona non grata" and be done with it. It's quite simple actually.

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## TaiShang

We guarantee the students that they will not be treated like this. 

(To Hong Kong youth: Watch this video and feel glad that Beijing does not serve you this sort of democracy):


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## Beidou2020

The CPC should arrest these US goons and sentence them like that Uighur separatist for inciting separatism in China.

Unless China takes a very hardline with this, the foreigners will try it again and again.

Close all US consulates in Hong Kong and arrest the individuals involved in separatism. If foreigners think they can incite separatism in China and get away with it, then the entire separatism law will become useless.

I'm waiting for a response from the CPC.

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## Raphael

Prosecute them under anti-sedition laws. This is exactly like how McCain met with and championed the "moderate rebels" in Syria that eventually became ISIS. There's absolutely no other country in the world that would permit subversive fifth columns to meet in the open with foreign agents like that.

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## Kompromat

Still wondering 'who' is behind the unrest in Xinjiang?

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## 风之南国

CCP treats Hong Kong over well, should be appropriate to give them a lesson.


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## dlclong

Horus said:


> Still wondering 'who' is behind the unrest in Xinjiang?


USA led western countries. Everything from the beginning of 2008

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## AgentOrange

Cossack25A1 said:


> Maybe the US expects Hong Kong to be something like how it use to be a British protectorate until 1997.



In that case there'd be no elections at all and the governor would be appointed directly by Beijing.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> So what are the objective(s) of these people? To make Hong Kong an independent city state? We all know that is unrealistic.



Some of them are easily influenced and very naive. And a proportion of them *do* want independence even though it's totally unfeasible. Something like 80% of Hong Kong's food and water come from the mainland. Even toilets in Hong Kong use saltwater because freshwater is too expensive.

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## Cossack25A1

AgentOrange said:


> In that case there'd be no elections at all and the governor would be appointed directly by Beijing.



What I mean is that because the US instigated the protests, maybe in exchange of democracy, Hong Kong will be something like a US protectorate or a stooge.


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## JSCh

Maybe these people think that the central government would not be able to act?
It is times that HK people grow up and learn about the real world.

Hong Kong Basic Law Article 23 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hong Kong Basic Law Article 23 is the basis of a security law proposed by the Government of Hong Kong. It states:[1]

The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.​
On 24 September 2002, the government released its proposals for the anti-subversion law. It is the cause of considerable controversy and division in Hong Kong, which operates as a separate legal system in accordance with the Sino-British Joint Declaration. Protests against the bill resulted in a massive demonstration on 1 July 2003. In the aftermath, two Executive Committee members resigned and the bill was withdrawn after it became clear that it would not get the necessary support from the Legislative Council for it to be passed. The bill was then shelved indefinitely.

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## Jlaw

Beidou2020 said:


> The CPC should arrest these US goons and sentence them like that Uighur separatist for inciting separatism in China.
> 
> Unless China takes a very hardline with this, the foreigners will try it again and again.
> 
> Close all US consulates in Hong Kong and arrest the individuals involved in separatism. If foreigners think they can incite separatism in China and get away with it, then the entire separatism law will become useless.
> 
> I'm waiting for a response from the CPC.



Chinese throughout history have not trusted foreigners and rightfully so. Slowly during these globalization years the Chinese have let their guards down. These guys are a proof that foreigners still are not to be trusted. This is just the tip of the iceberg as there are many more factions that have not been caught on camera yet.

Hope this is a wake up call for all the Chinese foreign-worship-liberal dummies out there.

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## Huaren

Cossack25A1 said:


> What I mean is that because the US instigated the protests, maybe in exchange of democracy, Hong Kong will be something like a US protectorate or a stooge.



you are overestimate their capabilities and the intention of US, hong kong is in the middle of china, and is depending on support from nowhere but immediate chinese province for survival. The most of this "movement" can get is to cause disturbance for Hongkong itself which may have some negative impact on the stability of China, the only thing US could offer in exchange for troubles would be free visas and protection for some of the movement leaders far away from China,

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## mike2000

Lool why is China whinning about this? If you are weak, you have only yourself to blame. Lol
This is geo politics and almost every major power/country plays it. Of course the U. S will try and protect its interests by all means, same with what Russia is trying to do in eastern Ukraine and Europe. Politics is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean. 
If you are weak and can't play the game, then shut up and accept your fate instead of whinning and crying. Lol

At least Russia knows how to play the game(even though I'm not a fan of the country/putin ), with China it's pretty boring tbh.

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## Jlaw

mike2000 said:


> Lool why is China whinning about this? If you are weak, you have only yourself to blame. Lol
> This is George politics and almost every major power/country plays it. Of course the U. S will try and protect its interests by all means, same with what Russia is trying to do in eastern Ukraine and Europe. Politics is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean.
> If you are weak and can't play the game, then shut up and accept your fate instead of whinning and crying. Lol
> 
> At least Russia knows how to play the game(even though I'm not a fan of the country/putin ), with China it's pretty boring tbh.



LOL. China is not whining about it. We Chinese patriots want a more harsh stance against these separatists. China is staying silent for now.

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## Brainsucker

mike2000 said:


> Lool why is China whinning about this? If you are weak, you have only yourself to blame. Lol
> This is geo politics and almost every major power/country plays it. Of course the U. S will try and protect its interests by all means, same with what Russia is trying to do in eastern Ukraine and Europe. Politics is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean.
> If you are weak and can't play the game, then shut up and accept your fate instead of whinning and crying. Lol
> 
> At least Russia knows how to play the game(even though I'm not a fan of the country/putin ), with China it's pretty boring tbh.



From what I see, this is not whinning. This is how PRC government undermined the protest and to thwart US strategem before they could do harm to Hongkong. It is an excellent move. By knowing that this protest has US behind it, the protester's objective is already failed. They can't grow any further, as their legitimization is already being questioned.

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## AgentOrange

Cossack25A1 said:


> What I mean is that because the US instigated the protests, maybe in exchange of democracy, Hong Kong will be something like a US protectorate or a stooge.



You're right.I don't think the US is even foolish enough to believe they can turn Hong Kong into a Western protectorate. However, they sure as hell are making trouble and they certainly had a hand in instigating the protests.

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## Fukuoka

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/w...s-harm-rest-of-china.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


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## Zsari

Beidou2020 said:


> The CPC should arrest these US goons and sentence them like that Uighur separatist for inciting separatism in China.
> 
> Unless China takes a very hardline with this, the foreigners will try it again and again.
> 
> Close all US consulates in Hong Kong and arrest the individuals involved in separatism. If foreigners think they can incite separatism in China and get away with it, then the entire separatism law will become useless.
> 
> I'm waiting for a response from the CPC.



You can't arrest diplomats & close consulates, but you can expel all the individuals involved, which China should do. While HK is judicially independent, China has the right to exercise its sovereignty on diplomatic matters there.

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## Beidou2020

Horus said:


> Still wondering 'who' is behind the unrest in Xinjiang?



US NGO's with funding from USAID.

Russia kicked out USAID because of funding protest movements.

Both Russia and China are wayyyyyy too soft in tolerating US NGO's.

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## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> You're right.I don't think the US is even foolish enough to believe they can turn Hong Kong into a Western protectorate. However, they sure as hell are making trouble and they certainly had a hand in instigating the protests.



I don't think it would serve Hong Kongers , in general, if they were to adopt a radical pro-independence rant. They are too far integrated into the PRC now since the British reverted control in 1997. No, I think that the Beijing Government should listen to some issues brought about by the protest movement , and compromise. It should also be emphasized upon that it is to the best interest for all Hong Kong and Hong Kongers to remain part of China. Either way, China has to listen to the demands of these groups, if it is to realize peaceful resolution. 

Best of luck on that.


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## Infra_Man99

mike2000 said:


> Lool why is China whinning about this? If you are weak, you have only yourself to blame. Lol
> This is geo politics and almost every major power/country plays it. Of course the U. S will try and protect its interests by all means, same with what Russia is trying to do in eastern Ukraine and Europe. Politics is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean.
> If you are weak and can't play the game, then shut up and accept your fate instead of whinning and crying. Lol
> 
> At least Russia knows how to play the game(even though I'm not a fan of the country/putin ), with China it's pretty boring tbh.



Even British people whine about immigrants inside Britain. Immigration is not a simplistic black and white issue.


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## lightoftruth

Hong Kong police have used tear gas to disperse pro-democracy protesters outside the main government building, after a week of escalating tensions.

Demonstrators trying to push through police barricades were earlier repelled by pepper spray.

Protesters want the Chinese government to scrap rules allowing it to vet Hong Kong's top leader in the 2017 poll.

Hong Kong Chief Executive CY Leung said the demonstration was "illegal" and elections would go ahead as planned.

In his first public statement since the protests began, Mr Leung also added that consultations would continue.

He said he and his government had "been listening attentively to members of [the] public". But, he said, "resolute" action would be taken against the "illegal demonstration".



Chief Executive CY Leung said the government was "resolute in opposing the unlawful occupation" by protesters

Protesters blocked a busy road on Sunday, clashing with police as they tried to join a mass sit-in outside government headquarters.

Police used hand-held cans of pepper spray to drive back the protesters, who defended themselves with umbrellas and face masks.

As evening fell, the police lobbed tear gas canisters into the crowd, scattering some of the protesters.

Thousands joined a sit-in outside government headquarters this weekend, bolstering a week-old protest, which began as a strike by students calling for democratic reforms.

On Saturday night, the leader of Occupy Central, another protest movement, brought forward a planned action to merge it with the sit-in by the students outside the central government building.

A statement by the movement said Mr Leung had "*failed to deliver on political reform".







The protesters had also called for further talks but it is not clear how far - if at all - Mr Leung's mention of further consultations will be seen as recognising their demands.

Faith Kwek, a 19-year-old student protester, said Mr Leung's "words are just words".

"I don't think myself or any of the protesters will give in until we see bigger progress in the form of action from him. We don't want our country to surrender to China."

Occupy Central had originally planned to paralyse the central business district next Wednesday, but organisers advanced the protest and changed the location in an apparent bid to harness momentum from student protests outside the government complex.

Student activists had stormed into a courtyard of the complex late on Friday and scuffled with police using pepper spray.

Police said they made more than 60 arrests including prominent student activist leader Joshua Wong.

The BBC's Juliana Liu in Hong Kong says that thousands had arrived spontaneously to support the demonstration by students.

Those outside the government buildings plan to stay until they are forcibly removed, she says.

However, some students expressed unease that their protest was apparently being taken over by Occupy Central.

"A lot of students left as soon as Occupy made the announcement they were starting their occupation," said university graduate Vito Leung, 24.

"I think they were really forcing it. This was always a separate student movement with similar goals but different directions. I don't think it should be brought together like this."

Unrest began when the Chinese government announced that candidates for the 2017 chief executive election would first have to be approved by a nominating committee.

Activists have argued that this does not amount to true democracy.

At least 34 people have been injured since the protests began, including four police officers and 11 government staff and guards, authorities said.

BBC News - Hong Kong: Tear gas and clashes at democracy protest 

*

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## Kolaps

US is democracy.

HK want democracy!

HK where is your Silent Majority?


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## mike2000

Infra_Man99 said:


> Even British people whine about immigrants inside Britain. Immigration is not a simplistic black and white issue.



lool This is not about immigration bro. This is about having the ability /influence to forment unrest in rival countries to suite/further your interests. The U. S has by far the most influence /ability to do this than any other country. It even did(tried) it in Russia during the presidential elections there. The world reach of the U.S is simply mind boggling to be honest.

In fact no country in the world has an influence /ability to forment any kind of unrest in the U. S. unlike the U.S who can virtually forment unrest/has influence in many parts of the globe like in the middle East/Asia/Africa/Estern Europe etc.....

So that's why I'm saying China should whine for their weakness, not whine for the U. S intervening in Hong Kong politics /protests. If they can't/unable to do the same, then they should shut up and blame themselves., Don't whine about others strength but yours. I have said it several times, politics(and even more so geo politics) is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean. As much as i wish we could all live in peace/harmony , this will never be the case as far human beings inhabit planet earth tbh.

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## Raphael

The problem in Hong Kong is a simple problem of economics. Too many HK cuckolds who got brainwashed to love white cock, but there is not enough whites. Too much demand, not enough supply. The most sensible thing for the cuckolds to do is move abroad where the objects of lustful desire are more abundant. That way, they can stop disturbing ordinary HKers who just want to get on with their lives.

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## 55100864

all the western NGOs need to be wiped out.

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## William Hung

All these news about HK protests is kinda boring and not worth commenting on. Simply because HK does not have any legal basis to be more independent or create their own democratic constitution, etc. HK don't even have any historical ground like Scotland. Any plan about changing constitution, becoming democratic, etc is not realistic. 

It would be like Texas trying to break away from the US. Not gona happen. These HK'er can protest as much as they like, but soon they're gonna have to go back to class to finish that degree or get back to work to put that food on the table. That's why the CCP aren't bother saying or doing much with this protest. It's more of an internal affairs, HK protesters vs HK cops. 

Watching Kolaps' comments is more entertaining lol.

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## Kolaps

Black Flag said:


> All these news about HK protests is kinda boring and not worth commenting on. Simply because HK does not have any legal basis to be more independent or create their own democratic constitution, etc. HK don't even have any historical ground like Scotland. Any plan about changing constitution, becoming democratic, etc is not realistic.
> 
> It would be like Texas trying to break away from the US. Not gona happen. These HK'er can protest as much as they like, but soon they're gonna have to go back to class to finish that degree or get back to work to put that food on the table. That's why the CCP aren't bother saying or doing much with this protest. It's more of an internal affairs, HK protesters vs HK cops.



HK do have historical ground!

UK made CCP to make a promise to bring democracy to HK.

US is democracy.

So, democracy is coming.




> Watching Kolaps' comments is more entertaining lol.



Don't forget to click this: 



55100864 said:


> all the western NGOs need to be wiped out.



How you do that?

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## William Hung

Kolaps said:


> HK do have historical ground!
> 
> UK made CCP to make a promise to bring democracy to HK.
> 
> US is democracy.
> 
> So, democracy is coming.



The girl in your avatar is very cute, so you must be right. 

UK is not democracy though. They should of recognised KMT as the legitimate government of China in1997, then they can hand HK to Taiwan. But UK not democracy like Japan and US. They give it to CCP instead. 

There was a very strong historical and legal basis to argue that KMT in 1997 was the real representative of China: Lee Tang hui was alot more handsome than Jiang Zemin



> Don't forget to click this:



OK here I click 5 times for you:

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## BoQ77

Oh, another Tiananmen Square incident alike is going to happen in Hongkong.

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## mrfly911

Live stream in Hongkong:


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## Oldman1

BoQ77 said:


> Oh, another Tiananmen Square incident alike is going to happen in Hongkong.



Send in the tanks before it spreads like wildfire.

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## DoTell

Radical Islam and radical democracy are the two most destructive forces in the world. While the first one is more brutal at the surface, the second one is more deceiving and more evil.

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## mrfly911




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## Kolaps

Black Flag said:


> The girl in your avatar is very cute, so you must be right.



Cute Girl never wrong!




> UK is not democracy though. They should of recognised KMT as the legitimate government of China in1997, then they can hand HK to Taiwan. But UK not democracy like Japan and US. They give it to CCP instead.
> 
> There was a very strong historical and legal basis to argue that KMT in 1997 was the real representative of China: Lee Tang hui was alot more handsome than Jiang Zemin



True!

HK should be given to Taiwan.

HK and Taiwan are like brothers, while mainland China went crazy and closing their door.

I guess, most of mainlanders here don't know anything about it.




> OK here I click 5 times for you:



BooHoo!

Btw, there's still a lot of men with thick pocket out there!


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## BoQ77

Here they are, Oldman

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## Oldman1

BoQ77 said:


> Here they are, Oldman


Not tanks but close enough.


----------



## Jlaw

lightoftruth said:


> Hong Kong police have used tear gas to disperse pro-democracy protesters outside the main government building, after a week of escalating tensions.
> 
> Demonstrators trying to push through police barricades were earlier repelled by pepper spray.
> 
> Protesters want the Chinese government to scrap rules allowing it to vet Hong Kong's top leader in the 2017 poll.
> 
> Hong Kong Chief Executive CY Leung said the demonstration was "illegal" and elections would go ahead as planned.
> 
> In his first public statement since the protests began, Mr Leung also added that consultations would continue.
> 
> He said he and his government had "been listening attentively to members of [the] public". But, he said, "resolute" action would be taken against the "illegal demonstration".
> 
> 
> 
> Chief Executive CY Leung said the government was "resolute in opposing the unlawful occupation" by protesters
> 
> Protesters blocked a busy road on Sunday, clashing with police as they tried to join a mass sit-in outside government headquarters.
> 
> Police used hand-held cans of pepper spray to drive back the protesters, who defended themselves with umbrellas and face masks.
> 
> As evening fell, the police lobbed tear gas canisters into the crowd, scattering some of the protesters.
> 
> Thousands joined a sit-in outside government headquarters this weekend, bolstering a week-old protest, which began as a strike by students calling for democratic reforms.
> 
> On Saturday night, the leader of Occupy Central, another protest movement, brought forward a planned action to merge it with the sit-in by the students outside the central government building.
> 
> A statement by the movement said Mr Leung had "*failed to deliver on political reform".
> 
> View attachment 93603
> 
> 
> The protesters had also called for further talks but it is not clear how far - if at all - Mr Leung's mention of further consultations will be seen as recognising their demands.
> 
> Faith Kwek, a 19-year-old student protester, said Mr Leung's "words are just words".
> 
> "I don't think myself or any of the protesters will give in until we see bigger progress in the form of action from him. We don't want our country to surrender to China."
> 
> Occupy Central had originally planned to paralyse the central business district next Wednesday, but organisers advanced the protest and changed the location in an apparent bid to harness momentum from student protests outside the government complex.
> 
> Student activists had stormed into a courtyard of the complex late on Friday and scuffled with police using pepper spray.
> 
> Police said they made more than 60 arrests including prominent student activist leader Joshua Wong.
> 
> The BBC's Juliana Liu in Hong Kong says that thousands had arrived spontaneously to support the demonstration by students.
> 
> Those outside the government buildings plan to stay until they are forcibly removed, she says.
> 
> However, some students expressed unease that their protest was apparently being taken over by Occupy Central.
> 
> "A lot of students left as soon as Occupy made the announcement they were starting their occupation," said university graduate Vito Leung, 24.
> 
> "I think they were really forcing it. This was always a separate student movement with similar goals but different directions. I don't think it should be brought together like this."
> 
> Unrest began when the Chinese government announced that candidates for the 2017 chief executive election would first have to be approved by a nominating committee.
> 
> Activists have argued that this does not amount to true democracy.
> 
> At least 34 people have been injured since the protests began, including four police officers and 11 government staff and guards, authorities said.
> 
> BBC News - Hong Kong: Tear gas and clashes at democracy protest
> *
> 
> View attachment 93604
> 
> View attachment 93605
> 
> View attachment 93606



Lol Faith Kwek is not even a HK surname...more like a Malay monkey Singaporean surname.

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## GeHAC

NiceGuy said:


> Useless China PLA cant help China to unify the nation like VietNam , so now, u have to face wt the serious consequences of living together wt the US's puppets in HK-Macau-TW.
> 
> Seem like China is going to be divided into many parts again ...


Nice dream buddy

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## Jlaw

BoQ77 said:


> Oh, another Tiananmen Square incident alike is going to happen in Hongkong.


I hope so. I want to see hk dogs' head on a pole.



Obambam said:


> Hong Kong police needs to do it the American way. This way the world cannot say anything or be looked at as hypocrites.
> They need to look into some of methods, tools and handling American police force,national guards and military use to suppress and control riots.
> 
> For example it's Vehicle mounted Active Denial Systems:


I wish hk cops can get more training from US . They know how to handle protesters better than anyone.

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## GeHAC

There's no need to debate in this age when democracy has become a political correctness.

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## mrfly911

Jlaw said:


> Lol Faith Kwek is not even a HK surname...more like a Malay monkey Singaporean surname.


Hey, @Nan Yang ! Do you have any idea about it?


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## Kolaps

> However, some students expressed unease that their protest was apparently being taken over by Occupy Central.
> 
> "*A lot of students left as soon as Occupy made the announcement they were starting their occupation,*" said university graduate Vito Leung, 24.
> 
> "I think they were really forcing it. This was always a separate student movement with similar goals but different directions. I don't think it should be brought together like this."



What does it mean, LEFT? and A LOT?

LEFT???

Just LEFT?


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## Snomannen

Macau? US's puppets? Dafuq? 


NiceGuy said:


> Useless China PLA cant help China to unify the nation like VietNam , so now, u have to face wt the serious consequences of living together wt the US's puppets in HK-Macau-TW.
> 
> Seem like China is going to be divided into many parts again ...

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## AgentOrange

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I don't think it would serve Hong Kongers , in general, if they were to adopt a radical pro-independence rant. They are too far integrated into the PRC now since the British reverted control in 1997. No, I think that the Beijing Government should listen to some issues brought about by the protest movement , and compromise. It should also be emphasized upon that it is to the best interest for all Hong Kong and Hong Kongers to remain part of China. Either way, China has to listen to the demands of these groups, if it is to realize peaceful resolution.
> 
> Best of luck on that.



I personally think Beijing is handling things well, given the circumstances. The more people protest and disrupt the economy, the more all of Hong Kong will suffer. Cries for "democracy" aside, the basis of these protests are more economic in nature, IMO. 

Ever since the handover and perhaps even before it, Hong Kong has been losing its luster as a financial hub and is no longer "special" as mainland Chinese cities surpass it. This galls people in Hong Kong more than anything else - that people care more about Shanghai than they do about Hong Kong and that nouveau riche Mainlanders come over to Hong Kong to buy luxury goods while Hong Kong's economy has been relatively stagnant. If Beijing were to give Hong Kongers everything they wanted (these trouble making ones, not all of them), they'd then want independence or something totally impossible because it never was about democracy or compromise with China. These treasonous and white worshiping troublemakers have always looked down on their mainland brothers, first because they were poor, but now they're really resentful because China's growth is leaving Hong Kong behind. Best to nip it in the bud and give them nothing else than what has already been proposed.

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## qwerrty

occupy turds v.s. students. PLA please send in 50 agents to each side. make it happen..


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## Raphael

AgentOrange said:


> I personally think Beijing is handling things well, given the circumstances. The more people protest and disrupt the economy, the more all of Hong Kong will suffer. Cries for "democracy" aside, the basis of these protests are more economic in nature, IMO.
> 
> Ever since the handover and perhaps even before it, Hong Kong has been losing its luster as a financial hub and is no longer "special" as mainland Chinese cities surpass it. This galls people in Hong Kong more than anything else - that people care more about Shanghai than they do about Hong Kong and that nouveau riche Mainlanders come over to Hong Kong to buy luxury goods while Hong Kong's economy has been relatively stagnant. If Beijing were to give Hong Kongers everything they wanted (these trouble making ones, not all of them), they'd then want independence or something totally impossible because it never was about democracy or compromise with China. These treasonous and white worshiping troublemakers have always looked down on their mainland brothers, first because they were poor, but now they're really resentful because China's growth is leaving Hong Kong behind. Best to nip it in the bud and give them nothing else than what has already been proposed.



Yep. I also think there's need to resort to anything drastic. These people have the same mentality as terrorists - in fact, they want to be "martyred". Best not to be so compliant. Instead, we win simply by refusing to accede to their extortionate and treasonous demands. They're the ones that have a problem with the status quo, and thus they lose simply by seeing the status quo perpetuated.

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## lightoftruth




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## DoTell

I would not be cheering if I were you. If democracy radicals win their Jihad in China they will kill all of you. Vietnam will be no more

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## idune

what is next move by chinese govt?


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## ChineseTiger1986

idune said:


> what is next move by chinese govt?



Wait until HK is completely ruined by these idiots, and also let these rioters to be hated by the majority.

Until then, more HK people will wake up and see the lies made up by these democrazy supporters by themselves.

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## AgentOrange

Raphael said:


> Yep. I also think there's need to resort to anything drastic. These people have the same mentality as terrorists - in fact, they want to be "martyred". Best not to be so compliant. Instead, we win simply by refusing to accede to their extortionate and treasonous demands. They're the ones that have a problem with the status quo, and thus they lose simply by seeing the status quo perpetuated.



Precisely. Beijing doesn't need to do anything. Hong Kong is contained in their own little bubble. Their entire economy is based on finance, tourism, and services dependent on trouble free interaction with the international community. There's no manufacturing, industry, or agriculture to speak of. The more these idiotic kids turn Hong Kong into a chaotic mess, the more these same idiotic kids will suffer when jobs flee the island and their educations are ruined once everything dies down. Then the only option for these China-hating traitors will be to go to the mainland and join the PLA.

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## ChineseTiger1986

AgentOrange said:


> Precisely. Beijing doesn't need to do anything. Hong Kong is contained in their own little bubble. Their entire economy is based on finance, tourism, and services dependent on trouble free interaction with the international community. There's no manufacturing, industry, or agriculture to speak of. The more these idiotic kids turn Hong Kong into a chaotic mess, the more these same idiotic kids will suffer when jobs flee the island and their educations are ruined once everything dies down. Then the only option for these China-hating traitors will be to go to the mainland and join the PLA.



These idiots have highly overestimated themselves, and they still believe that the Mainlanders should worship them like God, and China will collapse immediately without HK. According to them, the US will nuke China if PLA ever dares to touch them.

We need more sane HKers like Chinese Dragon, not these brain dead morons who live in a different universe.

BTW, they can keep rioting as much as they want, but more innocent people like Chinese Dragon will have their interests got harmed.

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## Huaren

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> These idiots have highly overestimated themselves, and they still believe that the Mainlanders should worship them like God, and China will collapse immediately without HK. According to them, the US will nuke China if PLA ever dares to touch them.
> 
> We need more sane HKers like Chinese Dragon, not these brain dead morons who live in a different universe.
> 
> BTW, they can keep rioting as much as they want, but more innocent people like Chinese Dragon will have their interests got harmed.



Unfortunately "brain dead morons" tend to be more "outspoken" than sane people in most cases.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Huaren said:


> Unfortunately "brain dead morons" tend to be more "outspoken" than sane people in most cases.



Then too bad for HK, this city will have full of bleak in its future.

Hopefully Chinese Dragon and other patriotic HKers could immigrate to the Mainland China before these pro-West democrazy supporters turned it into a sh1thole.


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## jha

No need to apply any harsh measures. Chinese Govt. is handling pretty well. Its just a game of nerves. People will eventually get tired of sitting there and sloganeering. A violent reaction on government part will close this thing sooner but will also result in bad PR. I dont think there is any need to resort to that for now.

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## Jlaw

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then too bad for HK, this city will have full of bleak in its future.
> 
> Hopefully the Chinese Dragon and other patriotic HKers could immigrate to the Mainland China before these pro-West democrazy supporters turned it into a sh1thole.


No need to immigrate. If you like where you live, why let some jackasses ruin it for you? It's time some Chinese adopt a more stand your ground approach. Not everything require you to flee.

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## Huaren

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then too bad for HK, this city will have full of bleak in its future.
> 
> Hopefully the Chinese Dragon and other patriotic HKers could immigrate to the Mainland China before these pro-West democrazy supporters turned it into a sh1thole.



To be honest I got a pretty good impression of HongKong from my visit last year, a highly developed international financial center with friendly people (I havent met anyone too emotional), although the city seems to have less vitality than Shanghai, everything appeared to be more orderly regulated, in contrary of what is happening now..

Hong Kong got a huge headstart as financial center and investment hub, it would really be a shame if they waste their ressources and position in crazy political struggle which could only cause harm. Guess China has no choice but to contain it, our national development are still in delicate building phase and cant be disturbed by fools and idealists, fortunately for China there are possible replacement.

On the sidenote as things are standing now HongKong would be the worst place in China to start western/chinese style democracy experiment, althougth it has the structure and ressources there are just too much irrationality, idealism and foreign influence, any further compromise might risk causing harm to (local) national integrity.

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## Infra_Man99

These protests are of minor influence and secretly based on US embassy or consulate support. China will have an easy time shutting down the US embassy or consulate, which decapitates the snake, and the rest of the useful idiots will be easy pickings.

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## Infra_Man99

mike2000 said:


> lool This is not about immigration bro. This is about having the ability /influence to forment unrest in rival countries to suite/further your interests. The U. S has by far the most influence /ability to do this than any other country. It even did(tried) it in Russia during the presidential elections there. The world reach of the U.S is simply mind boggling to be honest.
> 
> In fact no country in the world has an influence /ability to forment any kind of unrest in the U. S. unlike the U.S who can virtually forment unrest/has influence in many parts of the globe like in the middle East/Asia/Africa/Estern Europe etc.....
> 
> So that's why I'm saying China should whine for their weakness, not whine for the U. S intervening in Hong Kong politics /protests. If they can't/unable to do the same, then they should shut up and blame themselves., Don't whine about others strength but yours. I have said it several times, politics(and even more so geo politics) is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean. As much as i wish we could all live in peace/harmony , this will never be the case as far human beings inhabit planet earth tbh.



All China has to do is get rid of the US consulate or embassy in Hong Kong, and the problem will starve itself to death. However, the student protests are insignificant right now, thus, China avoids overreacting.

I don't think you fully understand immigration. Nations send their immigrants to other nations for various reasons: economic, military, political, personal, etc. Middle Eastern nations and African nations purposely send their immigrants to Britain for these reasons, and they know Britain is addicted to consuming resources from the Middle East and Africa. Then the British whine about immigration ruining their culture. Britain is clearly a declining power that is still on decline. Britain is being picked apart by the nations that were once conquered by British colonialism.

I thought it was the global Muslim terrorists/rebels who have the most capability in disrupting a nation's domestic affairs. These Muslim terrorists/rebels are based in tiny little Palestine, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, Afghanistan, and other Middle Eastern & Central Asian nations.

The global Muslim terrorists/rebels got the US to spend ridiculous amounts of money on a dysfunctional TSA, on an even more militarized police, on further expanding the NSA's espionage capabilities, on massive police operations during popular events, and sending military personnel chasing after the terrorists/rebels in various nations around the world. America's domestic and global war on terror/rebellion has been going on for over a decade now, and it does not seem to be ending any time soon.

We also have Muslim terrorists/rebels in China, Russia, India, Africa, the EU, etc.

Then you have Hispanic immigrants gradually and greatly changing the demographics, politics, and culture of America. Then you have Israel and the Jewish diaspora being spoiled rotten by both the liberal Democrat Party and the Christian Republican Party. Then you have China stealing from, hacking, and spying on the US, which disrupts US economics, politics, and military systems.

My point is that America is not as invincible and omnipotent as you think. I think America is a declining superpower, but still highly pretentious.

As anyone intelligent could see, causing social chaos in other nations or regions is more about ambition than technology, economic wealth, and intelligence.

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## AgentOrange

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> These idiots have highly overestimated themselves, and they still believe that the Mainlanders should worship them like God, and China will collapse immediately without HK. According to them, the US will nuke China if PLA ever dares to touch them.
> 
> We need more sane HKers like Chinese Dragon, not these brain dead morons who live in a different universe.
> 
> BTW, they can keep rioting as much as they want, but more innocent people like Chinese Dragon will have their interests got harmed.



Exactly. Beijing is doing the right thing. Leave them to their own devices and they'll tire themselves out or their parents will eventually get fed up and smack them and make them go back to school.

These dumb kids are led around by the nose by US intelligence agents. What we need is more people like that off duty Hong Kong veteran cop b*tch slapping some loud mouthed Hong Kong independence protester. Anyone else know what video I'm talking about?



mike2000 said:


> lool This is not about immigration bro. This is about having the ability /influence to forment unrest in rival countries to suite/further your interests. The U. S has by far the most influence /ability to do this than any other country. It even did(tried) it in Russia during the presidential elections there. The world reach of the U.S is simply mind boggling to be honest.
> 
> In fact no country in the world has an influence /ability to forment any kind of unrest in the U. S. unlike the U.S who can virtually forment unrest/has influence in many parts of the globe like in the middle East/Asia/Africa/Estern Europe etc.....
> 
> So that's why I'm saying China should whine for their weakness, not whine for the U. S intervening in Hong Kong politics /protests. If they can't/unable to do the same, then they should shut up and blame themselves., Don't whine about others strength but yours. I have said it several times, politics(and even more so geo politics) is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean. As much as i wish we could all live in peace/harmony , this will never be the case as far human beings inhabit planet earth tbh.



The United States will be racially unrecognizable from what it is today in a few short decades. With the growth of a Mexican/Hispanic power base comes a decline in US foreign influence and comprehensive national strength as the US loses focus and becomes more embroiled in racial issues.

As for you, instead of gloating and living vicariously through the displays of "power" of your former colony turned puppet master, worry about your own demographics first. Inshallah, with sustained Muslim immigration and demographic growth, Britain will join the Caliphate in a few decades. Do you have a daughter? Best teach her how to wear a burka today to save her trouble down the road. Cheers mate and God save the Queen. I mean assalamu alaykum.

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## Huan

Will the government send a bill to student leaders for economic disruption and property damage in Hong Kong by these protests? Just wondering.


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## jha

Are these pics real..? from the Hongkong protest..?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Jlaw said:


> No need to immigrate. If you like where you live, why let some jackasses ruin it for you? It's time some Chinese adopt a more stand your ground approach. Not everything require you to flee.



CPC has a plan for this approach, but not now.

It is still not the perfect time to attack a counterstrike against those traitors.

CPC will not let them ruining HK, but they are just waiting for a perfect opportunity to take them down.

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## mike2000

jha said:


> Are these pics real..? from the Hongkong protest..?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 94834
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 94835



Its as real as the protests in Maidan bro.

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## BoQ77

Seeing what happen in HK, we know where the big state budget, big army aim to ... 
HANDLE THEIR OWN PEOPLE, YEAH ... HUGE POPULATION TO BE CONTROLLED.


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## ChineseTiger1986

mike2000 said:


> Its as real as the protests in Maidan bro.



Why you always pull out the US flag emoticon?

Are you afraid that nobody knows that the US is behind of these protests?

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## BoQ77

why you don't suspect UK ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> why you don't suspect UK ?



Sure, the UK always follows the US, we all know that.

Seriously, HK is not even China's heartland, if you think that you can deliver a deadly blow to China by creating this circus show, then go ahead.

A protest in HK can't even tickle PRC, only HK will get ruined at the end by losing all its opportunity to other Mainland Chinese cities.

CPC always wanna see the capitalistic HK to fail, then replace it with a socialistic HK merging with Shenzhen.

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## BoQ77

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I don't think it would serve Hong Kongers , in general, if they were to adopt a radical pro-independence rant. They are too far integrated into the PRC now since the British reverted control in 1997. No, I think that the Beijing Government should listen to some issues brought about by the protest movement , and compromise. It should also be emphasized upon that it is to the best interest for all Hong Kong and Hong Kongers to remain part of China. Either way, China has to listen to the demands of these groups, if it is to realize peaceful resolution.
> 
> Best of luck on that.



Inside armored vehicles, they cannot hear


----------



## Obambam

gambit said:


> No need to go to the other side of the world. Call the PLA.
> 
> China internal security spending jumps past army budget| Reuters



Since America does everything right and is a country that's true to democracy, it is exactly the place to look for solution against these so called "Pro Democracy" supporters. They need to see what true democracy really is and get a taste of how the holy grail of democracy handles its civil disobedience.

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## AgentOrange

BoQ77 said:


> Inside armored vehicles, they cannot hear



At least they aren't burning down factories and murdering people. For that you'd have to go to Vietnam. 



BoQ77 said:


> why you don't suspect UK ?



Why talk to the slave when you can talk to the master (The US) directly? The UK is a washed up has been and as irrelevant as Vietnam in Asian politics.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CPC has a plan for this approach, but not now.
> 
> It is still not the perfect time to attack a counterstrike against those traitors.
> 
> CPC will not let them ruining HK, but they are just waiting for a perfect opportunity to take them down.



There's no need to take them down. Leave it to the local authorities. Beijing doesn't have to even acknowledge the protests and anything the central government does will be used as negative propaganda by China's enemies. IMO, Beijing should just ignore them. How many days can they stop traffic flow and close down the financial sector before Hong Kong's economy starts really suffering? By then the rest of Hong Kong will hate them and they'll go home. Problem solved.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Why you always pull out the US flag emoticon?
> 
> Are you afraid that nobody knows that the US is behind of these protests?



England might as well be the 51st state of the US. That's why he's using the US flag emoticon.The amount of young people they gleefully send to die for America's wars shows they have no independence or backbone whatsoever.

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## dlclong

*U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*

据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。

该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职*美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”。*“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。

公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。


















爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）



























gambit said:


> No need to go to the other side of the world. Call the PLA.
> 
> China internal security spending jumps past army budget| Reuters

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## dlclong

*U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*

据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。

该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。*美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”*。“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。

公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。

















爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）

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## AgentOrange

idune said:


> what is next move by chinese govt?



Ignore the protests. One country, Two systems. Local Hong Kong authorities can handle the protests, which aren't illegal in Hong Kong. That's why there won't be any tanks, etc. Hong Kong has had protests in the past and they will in the future. Eventually these people will get tired and go back to work. Hong Kong, as a financial hub, will suffer economically along with everyone in it, if commerce is disrupted by lengthy periods of disorder. The HK police know it and the protesters know it. In the end, everyone will go home.



qwerrty said:


> occupy turds v.s. students. PLA please send in 50 agents to each side. make it happen..
> 
> 
> View attachment 94097



Exactly. Already there are divisions within the protest movement. Before long the divisions will turn into in-fighting and US intelligence officials won't know who to back. In their confusion, they will recommend bombing an Iraqi village as the best way to aid to the Hong Kong protests.

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## Nan Yang

Oldman1 said:


> I remember seeing it long time ago. A couple of people didn't want to see him get crushed. But what was so significant was the defiance to go and try to prevent the Chinese tanks from proceeding. He even moved to block the tank from going around him.
> 
> Let me see if I can find a video of it.



Thank you for finding this video I have been looking for this video for a few years. This is the only video you will see the Tank commander came out and persuade the man to go away.

Most other Tankman video had that portion censored. The persuading portion does not help to portray a "massacre".

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## Jlaw

AgentOrange said:


> Exactly. Beijing is doing the right thing. Leave them to their own devices and they'll tire themselves out or their parents will eventually get fed up and smack them and make them go back to school.
> 
> These dumb kids are led around by the nose by US intelligence agents. What we need is more people like that off duty Hong Kong veteran cop b*tch slapping some loud mouthed Hong Kong independence protester. Anyone else know what video I'm talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> The United States will be racially unrecognizable from what it is today in a few short decades. With the growth of a Mexican/Hispanic power base comes a decline in US foreign influence and comprehensive national strength as the US loses focus and becomes more embroiled in racial issues.
> 
> As for you, instead of gloating and living vicariously through the displays of "power" of your former colony turned puppet master, worry about your own demographics first. Inshallah, with sustained Muslim immigration and demographic growth, Britain will join the Caliphate in a few decades. Do you have a daughter? Best teach her how to wear a burka today to save her trouble down the road. Cheers mate and God save the Queen. I mean assalamu alaykum.


I know the video u seek, but fucking pdf doesnt allow me to post videos 'upon approval by moderator'. Fucking bullshit.

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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Oh, another Tiananmen Square incident alike is going to happen in Hongkong.



It is already happening:

*Flower decorations greet upcoming National Day at Tian'anmen Square*

*



*
*Photo taken on Sept 27, 2014 shows the flower decorations to greet the National Day on Oct 1 at the Tian'anmen Square in Beijing, capital of China. (Xinhua/Yin Gang)*

*



*


*









*

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## Jlaw

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You can watch the full video, this man got pulled away at the end, the tanks didn't crush him.


Thats too bad.

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## opruh

such protest may impact Hong Kong's economy in a negative way, the officials must do something


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## TaiShang

In fact, this single true patriot is enough to handle the entire SOWs of HK. LOL.





Come and take it, bit**s!




Villager Li Guojun from Shenyang realizes his boyhood dream by building his own tanks. Sometimes, the man takes his friends for a ride in his 2-ton vehicles. [Photo: CRI Online]





Villager Li Guojun from Shenyang realizes his boyhood dream by building his own tanks. Sometimes, the man takes his friends for a ride in his 2-ton vehicles. [Photo: CRI Online]

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## Kyle Sun

So many FKING sluts!

Why do not they protest when UK appointed the governor ?

Our GOV is too good to those bitches

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## Jlaw

Kyle Sun said:


> So many FKING sluts!
> 
> Why do not they protest when UK appointed the governor ?


Colonial mentality plus CPC softness. Imagine if someone just like Mao was chairman, hk democratic oppositions will not even exist.

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## Rechoice

DoTell said:


> I would not be cheering if I were you. If democracy radicals win their Jihad in China they will kill all of you. Vietnam will be no more

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## halupridol

hongkong wants democracy ??


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## Kyle Sun

Jlaw said:


> Colonial mentality plus CPC softness. Imagine if someone just like Mao was chairman, hk democratic oppositions will not even exist.


We just spoil HK too much.

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## andy_hujian

mrfly911 said:


>



Will Vietnam become a democratic country. Since you wants democracy,
why not learn HongKong and do something similar?

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## TaiShang

*Central concerns*
By Cathy Wong 

*Stability of trade, tourism under threat as tensions simmer in Hong Kong*





_A young Hong Kong girl holds the flags of the People's Republic of China and the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region on July 1, the 17th anniversary of the return of Hong Kong to the Chinese mainland. Photo: CFP_

*"Horses will keep racing, and nightclub goers will continue dancing,"* said the then leader Deng Xiaoping before the handover of Hong Kong. 

The metaphor for Hong Kong's unchanged spirit and lifestyle after the 1997 handover is a vivid expression for the "one country, two systems," a constitutional principal put forward by Deng. It promises that distinct Chinese regions like Hong Kong and Macao could retain their existing capitalist economic and political systems and high degree of autonomy after its reunification with the mainland. 

Seventeen years later, President Xi Jinping also reiterated the need to uphold "one country, two systems" and stressed it will not change.

Occupy Central officially commenced Sunday as its organizer Benny Tai Yiu-ting declared in an announcement that the campaign would start with occupying the government headquarters following a week of school strikes. The activists demand for "genuine" democracy after a legal framework was released in August by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPC), China's top legislature, on ways to select Hong Kong's top leader. 

It is the city's heated political situation that has caused concern among its political and business leaders over the future of the policy.

*Business not as usual*

*Closer business ties with the mainland since the handover have become one major pillar of Hong Kong's economy. However, the Occupy Central movement has not only harmed political stability in Hong Kong, but also has shaken investor confidence. *

"There has not been any difference in business environment or policy since the handover, [in particular,] the tax structure has remained the same," said Vijay Sheth, representative of Sarjan Group, an Indian chamber of commerce in Hong Kong representing more than 250 diamond dealers. 

Besides the attractive duty structure, according to Sheth, its free trade policy and accessible location have helped Hong Kong remain competitive since its handover.

But as Occupy Central activists continue to escalate their protests in Hong Kong, luxury business leaders like Sheth are worried about their development in the city. 

"Safety and security is our main concern. If Occupy Central really happens, we may lose our customers from both overseas and the mainland," he said. 

Sheth is echoed by Regina Ip Lau Suk-yee, a Hong Kong legislator. 

*"[Occupy Central] has already done a lot of damage to our image overseas and in the mainland because this has projected an image of uncertainty and turbulence."*

*"Some foreign businessmen and chambers have told me that some investors are rethinking their investment in Hong Kong because of the perception of uncertainty and turbulence," Ip said. *

*Tourism, an important pillar of Hong Kong's economy, may also suffer due to the region's political tensions, say experts. *

The introduction of the Individual Visit Scheme (IVS) has brought a major increase in mainland visitors to Hong Kong, reports said. 

According to Hong Kong government statistics, in 2002, before the launch of the IVS, there were about 6.8 million mainlanders visiting Hong Kong. In 2012, that number rose to 34.91 million, among which 66 percent (about 23.14 million) were IVS visitors. 

*"Visitors from the Chinese mainland have been one of our major sources of income and have contributed greatly to our local economy," said Tung Yiu-chung, chairman of Tourism Industry Council Hong Kong *

*"Occupy Central will threaten Hong Kong's tourism industry, in particular that most business travelers have to live and conduct business in Central." *

"There have already been tourists from European and South East Asian countries inquiring about the political situation in Hong Kong. Some are even reconsidering their trip because of it," he said. 

*Theory of evolution*

A white paper on the "one country, two systems" policy, published in June by the central government, has drawn strong reactions in Hong Kong amid suspicion of a shift in policy regarding the region's autonomy. The paper reaffirmed the central government's "overall jurisdiction" over Hong Kong. 

*"The 'one country, two systems' is a work in progress that continues to evolve. Unfortunately, there have been people in Hong Kong who want to equate a high degree of autonomy with complete autonomy, or even self-rule, which lies outside the concept of 'one country, two systems,'" Ip said. *

Ip, who was also Hong Kong's former Security Chief, has been closely involved in the development and implementation of "one country, two systems" in the 30 years since the Sino-British negotiation and drafting of the Basic Law. 

Challenges over the policy have arisen, Ip observed, as there have been "people who try to set up conflicts between Hong Kong and the mainland. 

The city is currently undergoing a determining process of political reform after the country's top legislature adopted the legal framework for Hong Kong's universal suffrage in 2017. 

The pan-democratic politicians have argued that the public should have the right to nominate candidates, and claimed the framework has imposed a nomination threshold too high for them to run in the race. 

"The system came into being only because of the one country [principle]. The central government issued the white paper to clarify the conceptual basis for the 'one country, two systems',"said Ip.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> *Central concerns*
> By Cathy Wong
> 
> *Stability of trade, tourism under threat as tensions simmer in Hong Kong*
> View attachment 95389
> 
> _A young Hong Kong girl holds the flags of the People's Republic of China and the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region on July 1, the 17th anniversary of the return of Hong Kong to the Chinese mainland. Photo: CFP_
> 
> *"Horses will keep racing, and nightclub goers will continue dancing,"* said the then leader Deng Xiaoping before the handover of Hong Kong.
> 
> The metaphor for Hong Kong's unchanged spirit and lifestyle after the 1997 handover is a vivid expression for the "one country, two systems," a constitutional principal put forward by Deng. It promises that distinct Chinese regions like Hong Kong and Macao could retain their existing capitalist economic and political systems and high degree of autonomy after its reunification with the mainland.
> 
> Seventeen years later, President Xi Jinping also reiterated the need to uphold "one country, two systems" and stressed it will not change.
> 
> Occupy Central officially commenced Sunday as its organizer Benny Tai Yiu-ting declared in an announcement that the campaign would start with occupying the government headquarters following a week of school strikes. The activists demand for "genuine" democracy after a legal framework was released in August by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPC), China's top legislature, on ways to select Hong Kong's top leader.
> 
> It is the city's heated political situation that has caused concern among its political and business leaders over the future of the policy.
> 
> *Business not as usual*
> 
> *Closer business ties with the mainland since the handover have become one major pillar of Hong Kong's economy. However, the Occupy Central movement has not only harmed political stability in Hong Kong, but also has shaken investor confidence. *
> 
> "There has not been any difference in business environment or policy since the handover, [in particular,] the tax structure has remained the same," said Vijay Sheth, representative of Sarjan Group, an Indian chamber of commerce in Hong Kong representing more than 250 diamond dealers.
> 
> Besides the attractive duty structure, according to Sheth, its free trade policy and accessible location have helped Hong Kong remain competitive since its handover.
> 
> But as Occupy Central activists continue to escalate their protests in Hong Kong, luxury business leaders like Sheth are worried about their development in the city.
> 
> "Safety and security is our main concern. If Occupy Central really happens, we may lose our customers from both overseas and the mainland," he said.
> 
> Sheth is echoed by Regina Ip Lau Suk-yee, a Hong Kong legislator.
> 
> *"[Occupy Central] has already done a lot of damage to our image overseas and in the mainland because this has projected an image of uncertainty and turbulence."*
> 
> *"Some foreign businessmen and chambers have told me that some investors are rethinking their investment in Hong Kong because of the perception of uncertainty and turbulence," Ip said. *
> 
> *Tourism, an important pillar of Hong Kong's economy, may also suffer due to the region's political tensions, say experts. *
> 
> The introduction of the Individual Visit Scheme (IVS) has brought a major increase in mainland visitors to Hong Kong, reports said.
> 
> According to Hong Kong government statistics, in 2002, before the launch of the IVS, there were about 6.8 million mainlanders visiting Hong Kong. In 2012, that number rose to 34.91 million, among which 66 percent (about 23.14 million) were IVS visitors.
> 
> *"Visitors from the Chinese mainland have been one of our major sources of income and have contributed greatly to our local economy," said Tung Yiu-chung, chairman of Tourism Industry Council Hong Kong *
> 
> *"Occupy Central will threaten Hong Kong's tourism industry, in particular that most business travelers have to live and conduct business in Central." *
> 
> "There have already been tourists from European and South East Asian countries inquiring about the political situation in Hong Kong. Some are even reconsidering their trip because of it," he said.
> 
> *Theory of evolution*
> 
> A white paper on the "one country, two systems" policy, published in June by the central government, has drawn strong reactions in Hong Kong amid suspicion of a shift in policy regarding the region's autonomy. The paper reaffirmed the central government's "overall jurisdiction" over Hong Kong.
> 
> *"The 'one country, two systems' is a work in progress that continues to evolve. Unfortunately, there have been people in Hong Kong who want to equate a high degree of autonomy with complete autonomy, or even self-rule, which lies outside the concept of 'one country, two systems,'" Ip said. *
> 
> Ip, who was also Hong Kong's former Security Chief, has been closely involved in the development and implementation of "one country, two systems" in the 30 years since the Sino-British negotiation and drafting of the Basic Law.
> 
> Challenges over the policy have arisen, Ip observed, as there have been "people who try to set up conflicts between Hong Kong and the mainland.
> 
> The city is currently undergoing a determining process of political reform after the country's top legislature adopted the legal framework for Hong Kong's universal suffrage in 2017.
> 
> The pan-democratic politicians have argued that the public should have the right to nominate candidates, and claimed the framework has imposed a nomination threshold too high for them to run in the race.
> 
> "The system came into being only because of the one country [principle]. The central government issued the white paper to clarify the conceptual basis for the 'one country, two systems',"said Ip.


My gf's friends are going to HK in Two weeks and are worried. They are planning to cancel the trip.
Instability is never good for business but i'm surprised that these occupy goofballs are just so dumb. Being played like a tool and not realizing it.

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## Genesis

mrfly911 said:


> Kill all of us?  Won't they take care of Chinese, first?



yes, the 7 million HKers are armed to the teeth, they will indeed come after us, and we are defenseless.

Though yes, in democracy, government must consider more of the people's wishes, say if Vietnam is ramming our ship, or vice versa, or even challenge us, can a democratic government that need votes appear to be compromising US proved. the American way is always, you mess with us, and 6 hundred thousand allied soldiers will descend on you or air strikes.



overall, I think this movement is for nothing, for one, 1.3 billion Chinese go about their business as normal and nobody really cares, and as long as they don't care, neither does the Central government.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

We had dharna for 40 days and no coverage , and 1 day issue in Hong Kong all news sites reporting in on it because its against china .... tch tch tch

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## ChineseTiger1986

Good job HK police, those western propagandists need to be treated in such way.

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## Kolaps

HK is going to be EMBARGOED!

This is against democracy and free press!

Let start by freezing all the financial assets of HK based bank, like HSBC.

As well as HK flag carrier Cathay Pacific.


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## mrfly911

Genesis said:


> yes, the 7 million HKers are armed to the teeth, they will indeed come after us, and we are defenseless.


HKers are protesting pro-Chinese mainland now! How on the earth they will support you? 


Genesis said:


> you mess with us, and 6 hundred thousand allied soldiers will descend on you or air strikes


With these words, you Chinese are so brutal! 


Genesis said:


> 1.3 billion Chinese go about their business as normal and nobody really cares, and as long as they don't care, neither does the Central government.


Well, this's the big problem! You (mainland) don't care about your people (Hkers). Do you have heart?

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## dlclong

Kolaps said:


> HK is going to be EMBARGOED!
> 
> This is against democracy and free press!
> 
> Let start by freezing all the financial assets of HK based bank, like HSBC.
> 
> As well as HK flag carrier Cathay Pacific.


Your show is very exciting, Vietnamese

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## cirr

The Hong Kong police should take a leaf out of its American counterpart‘s book when dealing with street gatherings：

Shoot the bastards if they ever dare going on a rampage。

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## mrfly911

rcrmj said:


> those halfw!t in Hongkong are die hard nationalist and of course discriminating on vietmonkeys arent very hard to them


Hkers are protesting to pro-China government. Not racism there. 


rcrmj said:


> since anger China would leave them no water, electricity, food and fund, but without you vietcongs```well`` can only affects their supply of cheap vietbrides


HK is a trading port and they have money. They can buy what they want

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## Genesis

cirr said:


> The Hong Kong police should take a leaf out of its American counterpart‘s book when dealing with street gatherings：
> 
> Shoot the bastards if they ever dare going on a rampage。


or since it's just HK, give all cops a free week long trip to China for vacation, and let them tear HK to shreds if they want to. After all, as I repeatedly said, it's not the mainland.


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## gambit

Obambam said:


> Since America does everything right and is a country that's true to democracy, it is exactly the place to look for solution against these so called "Pro Democracy" supporters. They need to see what true democracy really is and get a taste of how the holy grail of democracy handles its civil disobedience.


Actually...No.

Your China experiences hundreds of violent civil disobedience every year.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424053111903703604576587070600504108


> In 2010, China was rocked by 180,000 protests, riots and other mass incidents—more than four times the tally from a decade earlier. That figure, reported by Sun Liping, a professor at Tsinghua University, rather than official sources, doesn't tell the whole story on the turmoil in what is now the world's second-largest economy.


These incidents ranges from dozens to thousands of people, making the Chinese government the most experienced in how to put down civilians.


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## Sergio2021

*My utmost respect for the Hong-Kong protesters willing to stand up for their liberty and rights. As long as they have their phones out to upload and document this event, Beijing will not be able to use military actions on them because the whole world is currently watching and support their movement.*


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## Sergio2021

*My utmost respect for the Hong-Kong protesters willing to stand up for their liberty and rights. As long as they have their phones out to upload and document this events, Beijing will not be able to use military actions on them because the whole world is currently watching and support their movement.*


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## tonyget

BoQ77 said:


> Chinese mainlanders : try to get your own freedom right of voting/ protesting first, then you would know how hurt to lose it.
> That's current feeling of Hongkong citizens.




As if HKers had any voting rights during British colonial era.

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## BoQ77

swallow the promise ... so that's your way.


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## sword1947

No do no die


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## Obambam

tonyget said:


> As if HKers had any voting rights during British colonial era.



Hong Kong *WAS NOT* a democracy under British rule, it was a colonial dictatorship by England. A dictatorship governor was put in place by England, there was no election or any say by the people of Hong Kong who were mostly Chinese. The governor was always a White Englishman, not a Chinese.

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## sword1947

dlclong said:


> *U.S. officials traced to a secret meeting of Hongkong students Incitement to strike and accounted “Central ",Promises to provide shelter*
> 美国驻港总领馆官员、美国情治人员等近40人，被披露与香港学生代表开会商讨罢课行动及“占中”。*（American Consulate officials in Hong Kong, the United States intelligence personnel, nearly 40 people, was disclosed with the Hong Kong student representatives met to discuss the strike action and "accounted Central."）*
> 
> 据香港《文汇报》17日报道，一名自称老泛民、署名“民主真兄弟”的人士16日晚撰文称接到匿名人士爆料，指公民党英语组、“香港2020”9月5日晚举行会议，邀请外籍人士讨论政改，出席者包括两名美国驻港总领馆官员、美情治人员和外国学者等40人，前经济司布简琼（Elizabeth Bosher）更是被陈方安生和李柱铭等人亲自送入会场。
> 
> 该人士上载4页会议记录及多张图片，显示会议由公民党主持，发起罢课的“学联”和“学民思潮”等均有代表出席。“学民”发言人周庭称，之前“反国教”有公民党帮忙才能成功，与其过去一直强调无政党介入明显有矛盾。 港大学生会会长梁丽帼称，参与罢课不仅包括本地学生，还包括内地和国际留学生。梁丽帼透露，壹传媒多次联系她，承诺给予资金支持。*美国驻港总领馆官员、曾任职美国国防部和国家情报主任办公室的丹·盖瑞特称，“这次回美国向顶头上司汇报目前香港所处境况及我在港推动的工作进展。华盛顿要求继续在香港推动民间、社会力量争取民主诉求运动，尤其是推动青少年在社运扮演先锋角色”。他还承诺，“美国会保护学生领袖，包括赴外国留学、定居”*。“本土行动”成员陈允中扬言，香港要争取民主，就必须暴力“企硬”、违法甚至流血，以迫使中央让步。他更带去一名中东难民，该难民声称会召集滞港的政治难民协助“占中”，如条件成熟会在港成立极端伊斯兰组织。“民主真兄弟”在文中直言，“学生领袖们是有退路的，泛民大佬就更有退路，只不过害了那帮不出名的孩子”。
> 
> 公民党16日晚发表声明，称有关会议记录是“虚假文件”，而有关内容亦与事实不符。据悉，“民主真兄弟”此前曾撰文批评所谓“占中三子”一开始就存心拿学生充当炮灰，自己退居幕后坐享其成。有舆论称，反对派深知“占中”不得人心，利用入世未深的学生，做法极不道德;而美国煽动青少年罢课，其搞乱香港的意图也昭然若揭。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 爆料者称背对镜头的短发者是吴蔼仪，她身旁的就是周庭（观察者网注：吴霭仪是香港公民党、四十五条关注组的成员，也是香港泛民主派的一员。 周庭现年17岁，是学民发言人中其中一名中六学生）


Let's guess how many of them will be sent into jail


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## TheMatador

Very low turn out. Regular police can handle small riot.

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## Obambam

gambit said:


> Still wrong. Your argument make no sense, as so often they do not when feebly trying to defend your China.
> 
> It is irrelevant the political inclinations of the protesters and the response. The question here is which country have the most experience in dealing with civil disobedience. In your China, the police is a branch of the military, which make China the best source on the techniques, hardware, and tactics the government can and have used against civilians.



And you here are making as much sense as your hypocritical government so your argument here does not surprise me.

Lets be frank here, You, nor the US nor does your fellow democratic allies cares what happens to Hong Kong. All they really care is to make a mess and slow down China's progress and then cease the opportunity for some lovely photo-ops. Everyone knows this by now.

And I am not here to debate which country has the most experience, but rather how Hong Kong should deal with these democratic hooligans in the most appropriate yet democratic way, yes - The American way. 

So don't blame the Hong Kong police for the pepper spray, tear gas and police batons. They were taught that way by the Brits.
But that's too old fashioned now. They need to go at it the American way. Keep up with the time and go hi-tech instead.











Nation & World | Official: Test nonlethal weapons in U.S. | Seattle Times Newspaper
Active Denial System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## liall

Why not just give democracy to Honkkong? All major power and decision making would still lie with Beijing anyway.


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## Kolaps

Oldman1 said:


> Not as memorable as this.
> View attachment 94866



He didn't rolled by the tank.

Although everyone hope for it.


Let's just pretending it happened.

He die, rolled by the tank and blood everywhere.

Like in the media.


*He Die, Rolled by the Tank and Blood Everywhere.*


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## Obambam

gambit said:


> Because you know it would be embarrassing for you no matter how many pictures of the American police forces you can find on the Internet. You cannot deny the vast experience the PLA gained from over one hundred thousands of riots your China have every yr. Yeah...We may give used equipment to the police, but in your China, new equipment are actually *ASSIGNED* to the police.



Not embarrassing at all. The embarrassing thing is your kind failing to acknowledge your own tactics being the right way and the best way for dealing with these pro democratic hooligans.
China have their own separate systems and are governed under their own set of laws.
Hong Kong, however, also have their own system and its own set of laws, which are similar to the Brits and the Americans. Therefore they should be dealt with the American and the British way. End of the day, it is democracy they are asking for, then democratic solutions they will get.



gambit said:


> Be proud of what your China accomplished in terms of dealing with dissent, from harassment of families to black jails to tanks.



And you be proud with America's accomplishments in terms of dealing with dissent, from setting up illegal detention camps to using chemical weapons on its own citizens to harassment of families, ethnic minorities and erosion of the constitutional amendments.

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## Infra_Man99

Even with US consulate's and embassy's assistance (probably aid from US corporations, too), the Hong Kong protesters are not looting, destroying, and burning down buildings, and shooting at cops.

At the US, the Michael Brown protesters resorted to looting, property destruction, and igniting buildings, and shooting at least 1 cop. If these protesters received lots of assistance like the Maidan protesters, then things could be a lot worse.

Violence in Ferguson after police chief tries to join Michael Brown march





A few days ago, New York City had protests against US central banks and against pollution. The NYPD shut down the protesters and arrested a few protesters.

Flood Wall Street ends with mass arrests after day-long protest





The most controversial protests and rebellions are in Israel and Palestine. It's Israel, the US, and the EU wiping out tiny Palestine.

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## TheMatador

Gas them and make soap with their body!

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## Kolaps

mrfly911 said:


> Is there only Vietnamese in your mind?



May be you can help her to find a Vietnamese boyfriend. 

The criteria,

He must be handsome and able to grow beard.

Tall, 175cm above.

Athletic body, but not over bulky.

Between 23-30 years old.

Rich parent, owned a company and factory.

Kind, polite, neat , smart and graduate from US or UK.

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## Beidou2020

I have always said unless the Chinese government close down USAID, foreign NGO's and crackdown on foreigners that incite chaos in China, there will be protest movements like this to destroy China.

Chinese government was foolish enough to be kind enough to allow USAID and CIA run NGO's to operate in China.

Now you are seeing the consequences of the naivety of the Chinese government.

Don't blame the paid-protestors, blame the Chinese government for allowing such things to grow inside Chinese territory.

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## Beidou2020

I have always said unless the Chinese government close down USAID, foreign NGO's and crackdown on foreigners that incite chaos in China, there will be protest movements like this to destroy China.

Chinese government was foolish enough to be kind enough to allow USAID and CIA run NGO's to operate in China.

Now you are seeing the consequences of the naivety of the Chinese government.

Don't blame the paid-protestors, blame the Chinese government for allowing such things to grow inside Chinese territory.

Chinese intelligence agencies are beyond incompetent. Spends more money on internal security than the military budget but can't even deter foreign threats. Sheer incompetence.

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## Cossack25A1

kobenhaven said:


> This is the time for China to flex its muscles. They should attack America for interfering in Chinese affairs. What is the use of having so big army, DF21,41, JF11,JF17,JF31 lullz. Show your power baby .. Time to vent out our frustration on Vietnam and Philippines boats



That's a nice way to vent out frustration... by destroying other countries and commit massacre en masse.


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## TheMatador

Disturbing shopping activity in Hong Kong is a capital crime! Hang them high together with all their family and relatives within nine generations.


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## Kolaps

Beidou2020 said:


> I have always said unless the Chinese government close down USAID, foreign NGO's and crackdown on foreigners that incite chaos in China, there will be protest movements like this to destroy China.
> 
> Chinese government was foolish enough to be kind enough to allow USAID and CIA run NGO's to operate in China.
> 
> Now you are seeing the consequences of the naivety of the Chinese government.
> 
> Don't blame the paid-protestors, blame the Chinese government for allowing such things to grow inside Chinese territory.



Yup, blame Chinese government! 

Unlike Russia:

Russian foreign agent law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> I have always said unless the Chinese government close down USAID, foreign NGO's and crackdown on foreigners that incite chaos in China, there will be protest movements like this to destroy China.
> 
> Chinese government was foolish enough to be kind enough to allow USAID and CIA run NGO's to operate in China.
> 
> Now you are seeing the consequences of the naivety of the Chinese government.
> 
> Don't blame the paid-protestors, blame the Chinese government for allowing such things to grow inside Chinese territory.



They have already started to implement this policy to the Mainland China, but HK is a different case.

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## Kolaps

Beidou2020 said:


> I have always said unless the Chinese government close down USAID, foreign NGO's and crackdown on foreigners that incite chaos in China, there will be protest movements like this to destroy China.
> 
> Chinese government was foolish enough to be kind enough to allow USAID and CIA run NGO's to operate in China.
> 
> Now you are seeing the consequences of the naivety of the Chinese government.
> 
> Don't blame the paid-protestors, blame the Chinese government for allowing such things to grow inside Chinese territory.
> 
> Chinese intelligence agencies are beyond incompetent. Spends more money on internal security than the military budget but can't even deter foreign threats. Sheer incompetence.



Stupid Chinese government.

Now they pay for their own karma!

JUSTICE


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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They have already started to implement this policy to the Mainland China, but HK is a different case.



Hong Kong is Chinese territory.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> Hong Kong is Chinese territory.



They still care too much about that promise on the "One Country Two System" policy.

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## Huan

Kolaps said:


> Stupid Chinese government.
> 
> Now they pay for their own karma!
> 
> JUSTICE


Tell your Taiwan to invade Hong Kong then and install the "full democracy" that these Hong Kongese yearn for. I will watch with amusement.

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## TheMatador

NiceGuy said:


> Useless China PLA cant help China to unify the nation like VietNam , so now, u have to face wt the serious consequences of living together wt the US's puppets in HK-Macau-TW.
> 
> Seem like China is going to be divided into many parts again ...


Vietnam is going through a color revolution already. When civil war begins, China will intervene and bully Viets until we can occupy Cam Rahn Bay.

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## TheMatador

mike2000 said:


> Lool why is China whinning about this? If you are weak, you have only yourself to blame. Lol
> This is geo politics and almost every major power/country plays it. Of course the U. S will try and protect its interests by all means, same with what Russia is trying to do in eastern Ukraine and Europe. Politics is never a clean game, so don't expect it to be clean.
> If you are weak and can't play the game, then shut up and accept your fate instead of whinning and crying. Lol
> 
> At least Russia knows how to play the game(even though I'm not a fan of the country/putin ), with China it's pretty boring tbh.


My friend, we started playing the game as superpower only a couple of years ago when we finally abandoned the silly Deng Xiaoping keep a low profile policy. Now we are badass. We always win in the end!

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## xunzi

This is better than the savage Viet when they protest against us. LOL

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

TaiShang said:


> . *Behind the scenes is external support from the US and the West, as has been proven by the latest media exposures*.



Can someone post these media exposures.


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## ChineseTiger1986

When China gained control of Hong Kong in 1997, it represented an economically significant addition to the territory under Beijing's control. Mainland China had almost 200 times as many people as Hong Kong, yet they did not even produce six times as much stuff. In the 17 years since the handover, though, the Chinese economy has grown a lot faster than Hong Kong's economy has:







In 1997, Hong Kong's economy was more than 18 percent the size of the economy of the mainland. Today, the figure is down to three percent. Mainland China produces 30 times as many goods and services as does Hong Kong.

On a per capita basis, Hong Kong is still dramatically wealthier than the mainland. Last year, Hong Kong produced $38,000 per resident, compared to $6,800 on the mainland. But the mainland is narrowing that gap pretty quickly.

Does this changing economic picture have an effect on the current standoff in Hong Kong? The authorities in Beijing have always viewed the takeover of Hong Kong more in political terms than economic ones. But the spectacular growth of the Chinese government no doubt bolsters their confidence in the system that prevails on the mainland, which combines a market economy with political repression.

The Chinese government's confidence has grown along with its economy. That could make it a bit more willing to endure international scrutiny and criticism of that system, including when it comes to Hong Kong and the protesters' demands for greater democracy.

Hong Kong used to be 18 percent of China's GDP. Now it's 3 percent. - Vox

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## xunzi

When it comes to violent, I admit the US beat us to the ball. LOL

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## Lure

The elections in HK political history started in 1982, it was the first election that they saw. From 1841 (First Opium Wars) to 1941 they were under British occupation. In 1941 they were invaded by Japan and until 1945 HK is ruled by Japanese government. After 1945 it was given back to British rule. An invader takes it from another invader and then gives it back to the previous invader. That's the history of HK between 1841-1997. 

I think people of HK should make "thank you" protests for Beijing. And they are opening colonial flags in their protests. Dude wake up, for that flag you ancestors were slaughtered. Estimated casualties are 18000 to 20000 in First Opium war. At least you ancestors showed some spine and didn't "fall in love" with their invaders instead they fought back and died. Seriously, I understand that if you can't get along with Beijing you can seek independence, at least I understand. However opening up this colonial flag, that's the point I don't understand.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They still care too much about that promise on the "One Country Two System" policy.



Incredible stupidity to follow that stupid law when it's clear to anyone with a brain that Hong Kong is being used as a launching platform to destabilise mainland China.

Can't CPC leaders and intelligence agencies in China put the pieces of the puzzle together?
Are they working for foreign interests (maybe due to corruption)?

Tell the HK government to crackdown on anything that harms mainland interests. HK and Macau consulates of the US and UK are intelligence gathering organisations against China.

You give these anti-China people an inch, they will take it 100 miles.

As I said before, this kind of protest movement or colour revolution is being funded by USAID and NGO's to cause chaos and thus hurt the economy. By hurting the economy you hurt your main rivals.

Chinese government need to stop playing nice and stop seeking approval of Westerners. It's hurting China.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> Incredible stupidity to follow that stupid law when it's clear to anyone with a brain that Hong Kong is being used as a launching platform to destabilise mainland China.
> 
> Can't CPC leaders and intelligence agencies in China put the pieces of the puzzle together?
> Are they working for foreign interests (maybe due to corruption)?
> 
> Tell the HK government to crackdown on anything that harms mainland interests. HK and Macau consulates of the US and UK are intelligence gathering organisations against China.
> 
> You give these anti-China people an inch, they will take it 100 miles.
> 
> As I said before, this kind of protest movement or colour revolution is being funded by USAID and NGO's to cause chaos and thus hurt the economy. By hurting the economy you hurt your main rivals.
> 
> Chinese government need to stop playing nice and stop seeking approval of Westerners. It's hurting China.



CPC cares too much about the face.

But these HK protestors have previously offended the Mainlanders by resorting the racist attack, even most liberals from the Mainland China despise them.

PS, the Mainland liberals have no gut to openly support the HK supporters when these monkeys have risen the flag Tibetan/Taiwan/Xinjiang independence.

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## Kyle Sun

Those fking cockes like the govoners who were appoined by UK master.

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## TheMatador

Majority in HK support mainland. Trouble-makers and their CIA handlers should be captured and interrogated.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TheMatador said:


> Majority in HK support mainland. Trouble-makers and their CIA handlers should be captured and interrogated.



But the majority has been silenced by the troublemakers, this is a big problem.

If the majority doesn't try to raise their voice, soon their own interest will get harmed by those troublemakers as HK's economy is going down hill.

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## Chinese-Dragon

TheMatador said:


> Majority in HK support mainland. Trouble-makers and their CIA handlers should be captured and interrogated.



Very true. The pro-Beijing camp always gets the vast majority of the votes in the HK elections, but the sore losers can't accept that.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> On a per capita basis, Hong Kong is still dramatically wealthier than the mainland. Last year, Hong Kong produced $38,000 per resident, compared to $6,800 on the mainland. But the mainland is narrowing that gap pretty quickly.



Per capita GDP in nominal terms is not a very good measure.

I've traveled across the Mainland a lot, and I think a lot of cities there have a higher standard of living than Hong Kong.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> when does Xi Jinping lose the patience and order the glorious PLA tanks to crush the HK protesters?



The HK police will be enough to handle that.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Very true. The pro-Beijing camp always gets the vast majority of the votes in the HK elections, but the sore losers can't accept that.



The pro-China camp has to take a bit more of offensive stance. If you don't attack them, they will attack you.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The HK police will be enough to handle that.


it appears to me you failed to make the HK citizens to believe to a communist paradise.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> it appears to me you failed to make the HK citizens to believe to a communist paradise.



There is no absolute utopia in this world, but soon they are going to taste hell for their reckless behavior.

China doesn't even need to send the PLA to crack down these protestors, if CPC has lost patience, they can simply cut all the supplies, because it can make HK with no drinkable water, the food price to skyrocket to more than 100 times with hyperinflation.

But they don't want to make HK a living hell with those economic sanctions, because there are still many pro-China HKers living there, they don't want to harm the innocent people.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CPC cares too much about the face.
> 
> But these HK protestors have previously offended the Mainlanders by resorting the racist attack, even most liberals from the Mainland China despise them.
> 
> PS, the Mainland liberals have no gut to openly support the HK supporters when these monkeys have risen the flag Tibetan/Taiwan/Xinjiang independence.



I guarantee you, all the chaos in Tibet, Xinjiang and HK are being covertly supported by Western intelligence agencies.

It is all to destabilise China. By destabilising social stability, it hurts the Chinese economy (and money available for military). By hurting the Chinese economy, it slows down China's catchup to the US.

The West (especially US) uses 3 methods to destroy its enemies:
1) Internal revolutions by funding liberals and dissidents to protest and destabilise the entire country.
2) Economic sanctions to hurt the economy and ordinary people so that ordinary people will revolt against the government.
3) Military force to topple governments.

Against China and Russia, the West can't use option 3 (military force) because both countries have strong militaries.

So the West uses option 1 and 2. Easiest method is option 1 against both countries. 

China has a massive market for Western companies to sell to so they are less likely to use economic sanctions for fear of losing the massive Chinese market. 

For Russia, which has a smaller market, they use option 2 (economic sanctions) as well as option 1 (fund internal revolutions).

Against China, the only method is option 1 (fund internal revolutions).

Chinese government must be smarter and more alert to threats. Powerful countries can only be toppled from within, not by military force.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The pro-China camp has to take a bit more of offensive stance. If you don't attack them, they will attack you.



We already have all the important posts in the Hong Kong government, all the way up to the Chief Executive CY Leung. Backed by the overwhelming majority of votes.

Those troublemaking protestors are desperate (since they know they can't win by votes), and they will only get themselves arrested by going against the government.

Or maybe they can renounce their Chinese nationality and go beg for an American one instead.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> I guarantee you, all the chaos in Tibet, Xinjiang and HK are being covertly supported by Western intelligence agencies.
> 
> It is all to destabilise China. By destabilising social stability, it hurts the Chinese economy (and money available for military). By hurting the Chinese economy, it slows down China's catchup to the US.
> 
> The West (especially US) uses 3 methods to destroy its enemies:
> 1) Internal revolutions by funding liberals and dissidents to protest and destabilise the entire country.
> 2) Economic sanctions to hurt the economy and ordinary people so that ordinary people will revolt against the government.
> 3) Military force to topple governments.
> 
> Against China and Russia, the West can't use option 3 (military force) because both countries have strong militaries.
> 
> So the West uses option 1 and 2. Easiest method is option 1 against both countries.
> 
> China has a massive market for Western companies to sell to so they are less likely to use economic sanctions for fear of losing the massive Chinese market.
> 
> For Russia, which has a smaller market, they use option 2 (economic sanctions) as well as option 1 (fund internal revolutions).
> 
> Against China, the only method is option 1 (fund internal revolutions).
> 
> Chinese government must be smarter and more alert to threats. Powerful countries can only be toppled from within, not by military force.



First, the "One Country Two Systems" policy has to become a total failure, then the real action will show by CPC.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We already have all the important posts in the Hong Kong government, all the way up to the Chief Executive CY Leung. Backed by the overwhelming majority of votes.
> 
> Those troublemaking protestors are desperate (since they know they can't win by votes), and they will only get themselves arrested by going against the government.
> 
> Or maybe they can renounce their Chinese nationality and go beg for an American one instead.



But they have already paralyzed Hong Kong's economic development, so it is the time to take some actions on these fags.

BTW, if HK's government cannot handle them, CPC will.

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## TheMatador

Beidou2020 said:


> I guarantee you, all the chaos in Tibet, Xinjiang and HK are being covertly supported by Western intelligence agencies.
> 
> It is all to destabilise China. By destabilising social stability, it hurts the Chinese economy (and money available for military). By hurting the Chinese economy, it slows down China's catchup to the US.
> 
> The West (especially US) uses 3 methods to destroy its enemies:
> 1) Internal revolutions by funding liberals and dissidents to protest and destabilise the entire country.
> 2) Economic sanctions to hurt the economy and ordinary people so that ordinary people will revolt against the government.
> 3) Military force to topple governments.
> 
> Against China and Russia, the West can't use option 3 (military force) because both countries have strong militaries.
> 
> So the West uses option 1 and 2. Easiest method is option 1 against both countries.
> 
> China has a massive market for Western companies to sell to so they are less likely to use economic sanctions for fear of losing the massive Chinese market.
> 
> For Russia, which has a smaller market, they use option 2 (economic sanctions) as well as option 1 (fund internal revolutions).
> 
> Against China, the only method is option 1 (fund internal revolutions).
> 
> Chinese government must be smarter and more alert to threats. Powerful countries can only be toppled from within, not by military force.


较量无声


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But they have already paralyzed Hong Kong's economic development, so it is the time to take some actions on these fags.
> 
> BTW, if HK's government cannot handle them, CPC will.



Our Chief Executive CY Leung already said this demonstration is illegal and will crack down on it.

And I hope the Beijing government will help us to crack down on it, since our politicians have no spine.

If it was me I wouldn't even arrest them, I would revoke their Chinese nationality and tell them to piss off to another country.

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## 劉天兆

sword1947 said:


> No do no die


 NO ZUO NO DIE!

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## Beidou2020

Kicking out liberals and dissidents out of the country is the best result for China as they can't influence China from abroad like they would do if the are physically in China.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Our Chief Executive CY Leung already said this demonstration is illegal and will crack down on it.
> 
> And I hope the Beijing government will help us to crack down on it, since our politicians have no spine.
> 
> If it was me I wouldn't even arrest them, I would revoke their Chinese nationality and tell them to piss off to another country.



CPC is waiting a perfect opportunity to strip off HK's "One Country Two Systems" policy and make her a normal Chinese city just like the rest.

To acknowledge HK's popular election by 2017 is really tested the limit of their patience, but after that the "One Country Two Systems" policy will be declared as a failure, and HK will be completely reformed by CPC itself.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But they have already paralyzed Hong Kong's economic development, so it is the time to take some actions on these fags.
> 
> BTW, if HK's government cannot handle them, CPC will.



I think the HK government resources are getting overwhelmed.

CPC should provide a helping hand.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> Kicking out liberals and dissidents out of the country is the best result for China as they can't influence China from abroad like they would do if the are physically in China.



The real enemies in HK are those rich tycoons, they were backed up by the West and send those liberals to cause more troubles.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is no absolute utopia in this world, but soon they are going to taste hell for their reckless behavior.
> 
> China doesn't even need to send the PLA to crack down these protestors, if CPC has lost patience, *they can simply cut all the supplies*, because it can make HK with no drinkable water, the food price to skyrocket to more than 100 times with hyperinflation.
> 
> But they don't want to make HK a living hell with those economic sanctions, because there are still many *pro-China HKers* living there, they don't want to harm the innocent people.


economic embargo? that should not be a problem. the HKer can buy food and water in vietnam 
pro-China HKers are mostly migrant mainlanders


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CPC is waiting a perfect opportunity to strip off HK's "One Country Two Systems" policy and make her a normal Chinese city just like the rest.
> 
> To acknowledge HK's popular election by 2017 is really tested the limit of their patience, but after that the "One Country Two Systems" policy will be declared as a failure, and HK will be completely reformed by CPC itself.



I've said that from the very beginning, it should always be "One Country One System".

CY Leung is looking very weak, it's disappointing. If he already declared it is illegal than why not shut it down right away?

Our politicians have no spine to carry out the law, even though they are already backed by the vast majority of votes. But the Beijing government can certainly do it, they have more influence in the HK government than anyone else on Earth.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> that should not be a problem. the HKer can buy food and water in vietnam
> pro-China HKers are mostly migrant mainlanders



HK's electric supply and fresh water supply all depend on Mainland China.

And HK probably consumes more electricity than Vietnam as a whole country, so hopefully you can supply this as well.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I've said that from the very beginning, it should always be "One Country One System".
> 
> CY Leung is looking very weak, it's disappointing. If he already declared it is illegal than why not shut it down right away?
> 
> Our politicians have no spine to carry out the law, even though they are already backed by the vast majority of votes. But the Beijing government can certainly do it, they have more influence in the HK government than anyone else on Earth.



If it doesn't work, then the "One Country Two Systems" will be abolished, and HK will be fully integrated into China.

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## OrionHunter

Seems the Chinese hands are full, what with riots in Tibet, separatism in Xinjiang, and now Hong Kong on the boil for freedom.

Next is.....Inner Mongolia which will probably explode sooner than later!


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If it doesn't work, then the "One Country Two Systems" will be abolished, and HK will be fully integrated into China.



Good. I hope it happens soon.

And I hope all of those troublemakers are stripped of Chinese nationality and thrown out of the country.

Maybe they can join the Dalai Lama and live in dirt and poverty, they don't deserve to have any part of China's economic growth.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Good. I hope it happens soon.
> 
> And I hope all of those troublemakers are stripped of Chinese nationality and thrown out of the country.
> 
> Maybe they can join the Dalai Lama and live in dirt and poverty, they don't deserve to have any part of China's economic growth.



The sooner as possible, the later the more damages are going to be caused by them.

They are going to turn HK into a second tier or even third tier city in China if keep going this way.

I think the majority in HK should make a competition to request the central government of Beijing to officially abolish the "One Country Two Systems" policy.

If they truly love PRC, then living under PRC's laws shouldn't be a problem for them, right?

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The sooner as possible, the later the more damages are going to be caused by them.
> 
> They are going to turn HK into a second tier or even third tier city in China if keep going this way.
> 
> I think the majority in HK should make a competition to request the central government of Beijing to officially abolish the "One Country Two Systems" policy.
> 
> If they truly love PRC, then living under PRC's laws shouldn't be a problem for them, right?



Having lived in HK my whole life, and having traveled extensively across the Mainland, I can say that Mainland laws are better than HK laws.

I would live under PRC laws any day, in fact I have always wanted to move to the Mainland myself.

But the HK government is too weak, even if the laws are there they can't uphold them. We need a clean slate, the entire political class in HK needs to be changed.

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## Kyle Sun

Viet said:


> when does Xi Jinping lose the patience and order the glorious PLA tanks to crush the HK protesters?


When those cockes damage HK enough .When the majority HK people hate those bitches enough.

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## 劉天兆

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Good. I hope it happens soon.
> 
> And I hope all of those troublemakers are stripped of Chinese nationality and thrown out of the country.
> 
> Maybe they can join the Dalai Lama and live in dirt and poverty, they don't deserve to have any part of China's economic growth.


我兔没闲工夫管港人破事，我兔自己的产业升级跟经济转型才是重中之重。待我兔完全崛起，区区弹丸之地的渣渣跳的再高，叫的再响又有何用。这地方流行洋文，我乱入了，看懂的就会两句。尼玛还是方块字儿看着舒服。


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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Having lived in HK my whole life, and having traveled extensively across the Mainland, I can say that Mainland laws are better than HK laws.
> 
> I would live under PRC laws any day, in fact I have always wanted to move to the Mainland myself.
> 
> But the HK government is too weak, even if the laws are there they can't uphold them. We need a clean slate, the entire political class in HK is weak.



HKers also have to fully reform their culture as well.

For example, the traditional thinking for most HKers is to become lawyer or playing with the finance. Too much obsession with these things will only turn people into the finance animals. These things don't really create the real wealth unlike the scientists and engineers, or even the highly skillful workers.

HKers need to think about the diversified portfolio, to become the more useful professions such as the engineers/scientists/workers/soldiers.

Only in this way, HK will be revitalized, and not being stagnated anymore.



劉天兆 said:


> 我兔没闲工夫管港人破事，我兔自己的产业升级跟经济转型才是重中之重。待我兔完全崛起，区区弹丸之地的渣渣跳的再高，叫的再响又有何用。这地方流行洋文，我乱入了，看懂的就会两句。尼玛还是方块字儿看着舒服。



香港毕竟是中国领土，如果改邪归正还是要扶持的。

但现在这个香港还不真正属于中国，等到一国两制玩不下去的时候再被加以改造，最终和深圳合并。

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 香港毕竟是中国领土，如果改邪归正还是要扶持的。
> 
> 但现在这个香港还不真正属于中国，等到一国两制玩不下去的时候再被加以改造，最终和深圳合并。



This is our own fault, so we should have the responsibility to fix it.

The only reason I wish for the Mainland to help is because the HK government is so weak and useless, they can't even uphold their own laws.

This is a good lesson for us though, this is why the Mainland should never move towards a Western-style democracy, in a Chinese society it only results in political chaos like in HK and Taiwan.

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## Brainsucker

Don't you all understand the implication of this demonstration?

1st We know that this demonstration is a foreign strategem. Somebody has put the news about CIA and Spies in here. But don't you realize that their objective is not freeing Hongkong and make them a democracy state? WHAT IS Hongkong? it is only a city with several million people. How significant can they disturb China's Stability? VERY LITTLE

The problem is, I doubt that Chinese members here ever read Sun Tzu, or reading another Classic Chinese Wisdom. So they don't really know that this demonstration is just a strategem to thwart Xi's plan for peaceful unification with Taiwan. They want just to show that China is NOT WORTHY for Taiwan. And... honestly guys, you don't help your government in here. I think to thwart US's strategem in Hongkong, the best way is to give these protesters demand. 

Well, what wrong letting them choosing one of two candidates. Let say, CCP member A and CCP member B. let them choose one of these CCP member candidate. CCP won't lose anything, as long as there is only one political parties in your country. So why not? Taking Taiwan peacefully is far more important than getting hurt just because of this demonstration.

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## TaiShang

When it comes to suppression, China has one or two things to learn fromthe US regime --if only China wanted. But, why forcefully intervene? The protesters are already doing a great service to their country by further weakening their declining economy. When British neoliberal economy fails entirely, China will be eagerly end this stupidity called two systems. Those who do not like it the China way will be allowed to seek peace in democratic India or Vietland with extra portion of hygene products and frozen pho. Lol.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Brainsucker said:


> Well, what wrong letting them choosing one of two candidates. Let say, CCP member A and CCP member B. let them choose one of these CCP member candidate. CCP won't lose anything, as long as there is only one political parties in your country. So why not? Taking Taiwan peacefully is far more important than getting hurt just because of this demonstration.



That's what we have done already. Currently we can select our Chief Executive from a group of candidates that is vetted by Beijing. That's what the entire issue is all about, the illegal protestors are demanding that we can select anyone at all, without them being vetted, which is a very stupid and destabilizing idea.

What if they select a maniac who wants to divide China again? Sure, there is no chance they will win in terms of votes, but that kind of provocative stance would cause huge instability and even large-scale violence in HK.

As for Taiwan, that's a matter of Chinese unity and it's not questionable, it will happen one way or the other.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> This is our own fault, so we should have the responsibility to fix it.
> 
> The only reason I wish for the Mainland to help is because the HK government is so weak and useless, they can't even uphold their own laws.
> 
> This is a good lesson for us though, this is why the Mainland should never move towards a Western-style democracy, in a Chinese society it only results in political chaos like in HK and Taiwan.



The democrazy demonstration in HK has also indirectly proved to the Mainlanders that CPC was always right another time, since those events in Libya/Syria/Ukraine are too far away from us, but this happens to HK, the feeling will be completely different.

So don't worry, CPC will definitely pull HK out of this endless western democrazy nightmare.



Brainsucker said:


> Don't you all understand the implication of this demonstration?
> 
> 1st We know that this demonstration is a foreign strategem. Somebody has put the news about CIA and Spies in here. But don't you realize that their objective is not freeing Hongkong and make them a democracy state? WHAT IS Hongkong? it is only a city with several million people. How significant can they disturb China's Stability? VERY LITTLE
> 
> The problem is, I doubt that Chinese members here ever read Sun Tzu, or reading another Classic Chinese Wisdom. So they don't really know that this demonstration is just a strategem to thwart Xi's plan for peaceful unification with Taiwan. They want just to show that China is NOT WORTHY for Taiwan. And... honestly guys, you don't help your government in here. I think to thwart US's strategem in Hongkong, the best way is to give these protesters demand.
> 
> Well, what wrong letting them choosing one of two candidates. Let say, CCP member A and CCP member B. let them choose one of these CCP member candidate. CCP won't lose anything, as long as there is only one political parties in your country. So why not? Taking Taiwan peacefully is far more important than getting hurt just because of this demonstration.



The "One Country Two Systems" policy has already been proved to be a failure.

If China takes the peaceful unification stance with Taiwan, then we will have this sh1t again.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HK's electric supply and fresh water supply all depend on Mainland China.
> 
> And HK probably consumes more electricity than Vietnam as a whole country, so hopefully you can supply this as well.


HK *Electricity - consumption: *44.21 billion kWh (2013 est.)
VN *Electricity - production: *117 billion kWh (2012 est.), consumption *104 billion kWh.*


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> So don't worry, CPC will definitely pull HK out of this endless western democrazy nightmare.



CPC have already proven that they are real Chinese patriots, I know they will do the right thing for the stability of China.

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## Levina

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Our Chief Executive CY Leung already said this demonstration is illegal and will crack down on it.
> 
> And I hope the Beijing government will help us to crack down on it, since our politicians have no spine.
> 
> If it was me I wouldn't even arrest them, I would revoke their Chinese nationality and tell them to piss off to another country.


Wait! do you mean the protests staged by the students and ppl across HK is not supported by the majority??
To tell you frankly in this part of the world I've been reading articles regularly about HK's pro democracy protests and it gave me an impression otherwise.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> HK *Electricity - consumption: *44.21 billion kWh (2013 est.)
> VN *Electricity - consumption: *104 billion kWh (2012 est.)



Even HK's fresh water all depends on Guangdong, and don't tell me that you are going to carry your fresh water from the Red River to HK.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> CPC have already proven that they are real Chinese patriots, I know they will do the right thing for the stability of China.



HKers should start the petition about the "One Country One System" policy right now, let the central government to hear your voice.

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## Chinese-Dragon

levina said:


> Wait do you mean the protests staged by the students and ppl across HK is not supported by the majority??
> To tell you frankly in this part of the world I've been reading articles regularly about HK's pro democracy protests and it gave me an impression otherwise.



Check the results of the last HK elections.

The VAST majority voted for the pro-Beijing camp (including myself). We hold the dominant majority in all areas of the HK government.

The pro-democracy camp received a pitiful amount of votes, that is why they are doing these illegal protests, because they are desperate. And they are going to get themselves arrested.

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## Levina

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Check the results of the last HK elections.
> 
> The VAST majority voted for the pro-Beijing camp (including myself). We hold the dominant majority in all areas of the HK government.
> 
> The pro-democracy camp received a pitiful amount of votes, that is why they are doing these illegal protests, because they are desperate. And they are going to get themselves arrested.


Gotcha! 
But dont you think getting 'em arrested would worsen the situation??
As in the news headline the next day would read "Pro democracy protesters arrested in HK for protesting against the mainland governance"..or something to that effect.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Maybe they can join the Dalai Lama and live in dirt and poverty, they don't deserve to have any part of China's economic growth.


Did you....did you by any chance take a dig at India???



Kidding!
I read the title of this thread and found it interesting ergo joined the conversation.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Check the results of the last HK elections.
> 
> The VAST majority voted for the pro-Beijing camp (including myself). We hold the dominant majority in all areas of the HK government.
> 
> The pro-democracy camp received a pitiful amount of votes, that is why they are doing these illegal protests, because they are desperate. And they are going to get themselves arrested.



The US did the same tactic to oust the majority elected Thai government just in early of this year.

But ironically even the Thai junta government has signed the high speed railway contract with China.

Yingluck got overthrown because of this, but now even the US supported puppet has done the same.

Because the US always severely overestimated their power, but they never consider the human incentive when they are starving, if you have nothing to offer them, they won't obey your command anymore.

The US has raised many puppets, but meanwhile they have nothing to feed them, so those puppet governments eventually choose to do the business with China, the government of Iraq/Afghanistan and the current government of Thailand are the prime examples.

This harsh reality about the common human nature seriously pisses the US off.

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## TaiShang

Confiscate their equipment and annul their journalism visas. Then sell back their equipment and buy and send a huge middle finger to the US representative in HK. LOL. Seriously, the foreign journalists must be given a nice beating and the cops doing that must be awaded with paid vocation.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Better include Tear gas in the title.

The word gassed, gives an entirely different meaning 



Kolaps said:


> May be you can help her to find a Vietnamese boyfriend.
> 
> The criteria,
> 
> He must be handsome *and able to grow beard.*
> 
> Tall, 175cm above.
> 
> Athletic body, but not over bulky.
> 
> Between 23-30 years old.
> 
> Rich parent, owned a company and factory.
> 
> Kind, polite, neat , smart and graduate from US or UK.



Dafaq did i just read


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## Chinese-Dragon

levina said:


> Gotcha!
> But dont you think getting 'em arrested would worsen the situation??
> As in the news headline the next day would read "Pro democracy protesters arrested in HK for protesting against the mainland governance"..or something to that effect.



The pro-Beijing HK government that we elected, by an overwhelming majority, has already declared that the actions of the protestors are illegal under HK law.

So I would be very disappointed if they were not arrested.



levina said:


> As in the news headline the next day would read "Pro democracy protesters arrested in HK for protesting against the mainland governance"..or something to that effect.



Sure, it will look bad overseas, but so what? That's never been a major concern.

If foreigners don't like the actions of the HK government, they are welcome to choose another destination for their next vacation. We can live without the $10 they spend in downtown Central on some 魚蛋 that they won't even finish eating. (I think they call it 魚丸 in the Mainland).

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> Confiscate their equipment and annul their journalism visas. Then sell back their equipment and buy and send a huge middle finger to the US representative in HK. LOL. Seriously, the foreign journalists must be given a nice beating and the cops doing that must be awaded with paid vocation.



The good thing is that the HK police now starts to behave a lot like the Mainland police, which I heard those pro-democrazy supporters often complain about it.

This shows that the majority of the HK police now show their approval to CPC's rule in HK.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even HK's fresh water all depends on Guangdong, and don't tell me that you are going to carry your fresh water from the Red River to HK.



SG ever similar to HK, but they successful divided from Malaysia.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The pro-Beijing HK government that we elected, by an overwhelming majority, has already declared that the actions of the protestors are illegal under HK law.
> 
> So I would be very disappointed if they were not arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, it will look bad overseas, but so what? That's never been a major concern.
> 
> If foreigners don't like the actions of the HK government, they are welcome to choose another destination for their next vacation. We can live without the $10 they spend in downtown Central on some 魚蛋 that they won't even finish eating. (I think they call it 魚丸 in the Mainland).



It looks that the short term pain will be inevitable for HK.

BTW, don't worry to much, when HK has officially became a Mainland city, it will be CPC's duty to lift you up, so HK's economy will be rebuilt again in a reformed way.

CPC has lifted 1 billion people out of poverty, so it won't be a major problem to lift 7 million HKers.

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## BoQ77

Will you sell your life by some money ? Learn from Tiananmen Square incident.
Mentioned that every year HKer always memorize the 1989 incident.


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## aliaselin

Kolaps said:


> HK is going to be EMBARGOED!
> 
> This is against democracy and free press!
> 
> Let start by freezing all the financial assets of HK based bank, like HSBC.
> 
> As well as HK flag carrier Cathay Pacific.


You pretend to speak like god, while you can only cry with tears


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It looks that the short term pain will be inevitable for HK.
> 
> BTW, don't worry to much, when HK has officially became a Mainland city, it will be CPC's duty to lift you up, so HK's economy will be rebuilt again in a reformed way.
> 
> CPC has lifted 1 billion people out of poverty, so it won't be a major problem to lift 7 million HKers.



I might move to the Mainland before that. I'm getting tired of all the crappy HK politics.

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## ChineseTiger1986

A female HK police officer has posted this request (HK needs PLA) on her blog.


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## Levina

Chinese-Dragon said:


> If foreigners don't like the actions of the HK government, they are welcome to choose another destination for their next vacation. We can live without the $10 they spend in downtown Central on some* 魚蛋* that they won't even finish eating. (I think they call it 魚丸 in the Mainland).


whatsss zzzat??

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I might move to the Mainland before that. I'm getting tired of all the crappy HK politics.



Then Shenzhen might be the best city for you, since it is geographically close to HK.

And its nominal per capita is about 2/3 of HK, and might surpass it in the near future.

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## Viet

Kyle Sun said:


> When those cockes damage HK enough .When the majority HK people hate those bitches enough.


bullshit. most of HKer hate communism, many of them were descendants of former refugees escaped from mainland. they are fearful, should their political/economic system be undermined by CCP.


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## Chinese-Dragon

levina said:


> whatsss zzzat??



Fishballs. 







We call it by a slightly different name in Cantonese than what they use in most of the Mainland.

Same as Youtiao (油條), in Hong Kong we call it "油炸鬼" (oil fried ghost). Don't ask why, it's a long story. 

I'm not sure how to say it in English (maybe fried dough stick), but it's absolutely amazing:

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## Jackdaws

Whoever came up with this ludicrous idea of "vetting" candidates needs to be fired. History shows that if any population has enjoyed a right, it is never easy taking it away. At the end of the day, the Chinese still would have the final say in HK irrespective of who was elected. So why vet a candidate? 

It happened in India when Indira Gandhi declared "Emergency" and pretty much usurped power. The country when ballistic. Can you imagine the UK telling Australia or Canada that - "Hey - you guys are free to elect whoever you want - but let the Queen vet the candidates since she is the Head of State." 

China enjoys and will continue to enjoy a trajectory of growth never seen before. And the communist model allows that. But to try and switch a democratic part of your nation to communism through sleight of hand is downright daft.


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## BoQ77

don't pull high leverage HK down to mud.


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## tonyget

Viet said:


> bullshit. most of HKer hate communism, many of them were descendants of former refugees escaped from mainland. they are fearful, should their political/economic system be undermined by CCP.




No, many of HKers fled HK prior to 1997, then after couple of years they came back to HK

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## vostok

I am sure that Chinese authorities are able to suppress these pseudo-democratic traitors sponsored by West.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even HK's fresh water all depends on Guangdong, and don't tell me that you are going to carry your fresh water from the Red River to HK.


VN has water in abundance. it should not be a problem to deliver water to HK via water tank ships. and you?

China faces severe water shortage. for example: the people in Beijing and neighborhood, the amount of water per capita is as low as of africian countries such as Nigeria or Eritrea. China becomes a desert. Let see how long you can laugh at us.


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## Jackdaws

vostok said:


> I am sure that Chinese authorities are able to suppress these pseudo-democratic traitors sponsored by West.



Do I see a Sino-Russo rapprochement?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> VN has water in abundance. it should not be a problem to deliver water to HK via water tank ships. and you?
> 
> China faces severe water shortage. for example: the people in Beijing and neighborhood, the amount of water per capita is as low as of africian countries such as Nigeria or Eritrea. China becomes a desert.



South China doesn't have water shortage all, since HK's water all came from South China.

BTW, do you have an idea about the cost of building a fresh water pipeline from Vietnam to HK?

So in most time, don't make the silly comment like Vietnam can do this and that, you are making your comment childish.

Now Japan is suffering from China's economic sanctions, can you help them?

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## tonyget

Viet said:


> VN has water in abundance. it should not be a problem to deliver water to HK via water tank ships. and you?
> 
> China faces severe water shortage. for example: the people in Beijing and neighborhood, the amount of water per capita is as low as of africian countries such as Nigeria or Eritrea. China becomes a desert.




You water resource depends on China as well , don't u know that ?

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## Levina

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Fishballs.
> 
> 
> View attachment 96292
> 
> 
> We call it by a slightly different name in Cantonese than what they use in most of the Mainland.


It looks good!! 



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Same as Youtiao (油條), in HK we call it "油炸鬼" (oil fried ghost). *Don't ask why, it's a long story*.


Tell me why??? 
I am all ears. 



Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'm not sure how to say it in English (maybe fried dough stick), but it's absolutely amazing:
> 
> View attachment 96297



Just fried dough??
Thats a vegetarian thing and I can eat it.

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## Viet

tonyget said:


> No, many of HKers fled HK prior to 1997, then after couple of years they came back to HK


I visited the city before the handover. many HKer brought their money to overseas such as Singapore, many bought passports from UK, Canada or America. when CCP assured to retain their system for 50 years, many repatriated the money and re-invested in the city.

should CCP try to undermine the HK system, money and people can go elsewhere.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I visited the city before the handover. many HKer brought their money to overseas, many bought passports from UK, Canada or America. when CCP assured to retain their system for 50 years, many repatriated the money and re-invested in the city.
> 
> *should CCP try to undermine the HK system, money and people can go elsewhere.*



Who cares? Those anti-CPC folks should leave China, good riddance.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US did the same tactic to oust the majority elected Thai government just in early of this year.
> 
> But ironically even the Thai junta government has signed the high speed railway contract with China.
> 
> Yingluck got overthrown because of this, but now even the US supported puppet has done the same.
> 
> Because the US always severely overestimated their power, but they never consider the human incentive when they are starving, if you have nothing to offer them, they won't obey your command anymore.
> 
> The US has raised many puppets, but meanwhile they have nothing to feed them, so those puppet governments eventually choose to do the business with China, the government of Iraq/Afghanistan and the current government of Thailand are the prime examples.
> 
> This harsh reality about the common human nature seriously pisses the US off.



I fully agree with your point that China offers more economically to most developing countries than the US. China's no-strings-attached policy is much more favourable than the US interference policy.

I think instead of waiting for people to revolt and topple the government, first you must identify how the US manages to get these people to protest. Find out what their method is and cut that chain off.

US uses its NGO's and USAID funding program of the US state department to pay poor people to protest. They say if you protest, the NGO will pay you or find you a job in the US.

This is why Russia cut off the funding source of these protest movements by kicking out USAID last year after finding out they paid people to protest.

The intelligence agencies of countries like Russia and China must put 24/7 surveillance on people that have a high probability of protesting and arrest the key figures in the protest movements before it gets to the streets. They could also infiltrate these protest movements by getting spies to pretend to be protestors and give info back to the intelligence agencies to disrupt the entire movement. It could destroy the credibility of the movements by various methods. Make life difficult to the funders and participants of these protest movements just like they make life difficult to the ruling government.

US intelligence agencies are very advanced and are mostly proactive instead of reactive. They find people that have a high chance of protesting and fully monitor them and disrupt they activities so the protest movement is nipped in the bud.

Chinese and Russian governments are very reactive. They only do something when a crisis happens. They need to think ahead and think outside the box and be more proactive to prevent crises.

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## vostok

Jackdaws said:


> Do I see a Sino-Russo rapprochement?


I hope you do.

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## Chinese-Dragon

levina said:


> Tell me why???
> I am all ears.



LOL, bad idea.  You won't like it.

I'll tell you anyway. There was this General in Ancient China called Yue Fei (from Henan province), he is one of the great patriots and folk heroes in Chinese history, and widely revered for leading the fight against the Jurchen-led Jin Dynasty.

But he was framed, and betrayed by the Song Dynasty official Qin Hui and his wife, and thus our great hero was executed.

The two dough sticks represent Qin Hui and his wife, who framed and executed Yue Fei. That's why the name in Cantonese is "oil fried ghost" (油炸鬼), because every time we fry the two sticks of Youtiao (油條), we are frying the traitorous couple.

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## BoQ77

Yeah China is making HK poorer in USD, poorer in human right, 
that explain many things.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> I fully agree with your point that China offers more economically to most developing countries than the US. China's no-strings-attached policy is much more favourable than the US interference policy.
> 
> I think instead of waiting for people to revolt and topple the government, first you must identify how the US manages to get these people to protest. *Find out what their method is and cut that chain off.*
> 
> US uses its NGO's and USAID funding program of the US state department to pay poor people to protest. They say if you protest, the NGO will pay you or find you a job in the US.
> 
> This is why Russia cut off the funding source of these protest movements by kicking out USAID last year after finding out they paid people to protest.
> 
> The intelligence agencies of countries like Russia and China must put 24/7 surveillance on people that have a high probability of protesting and arrest the key figures in the protest movements before it gets to the streets. They could also infiltrate these protest movements by getting spies to pretend to be protestors and give info back to the intelligence agencies to disrupt the entire movement. It could destroy the credibility of the movements by various methods. Make life difficult to the funders and participants of these protest movements just like they make life difficult to the ruling government.
> 
> US intelligence agencies are very advanced and are mostly proactive instead of reactive. They find people that have a high chance of protesting and fully monitor them and disrupt they activities so the protest movement is nipped in the bud.
> 
> Chinese and Russian governments are very reactive. They only do something when a crisis happens. They need to think ahead and think outside the box and be more proactive to prevent crises.



China's main focus right in on the Mainland, that's why the US chose to ignite the fire in HK because they cannot infiltrate into the Mainland China right now.



BoQ77 said:


> Yeah China is making HK poorer in USD, poorer in human right,
> that explain many things.



China didn't make HK poorer, it was those fcking tycoons from HK.

One of them just fled when he knew China's national security department was coming for him.

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## BoQ77

Chinese Tiger, could you tell me your own taste.
Do you prefer an appointed leader by a commitee, or a leader voted by yourself?


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## Beidou2020

Chinese government must also stop the cultural infiltration of China by the West.

Movies, TV shows, art, literature, etc from the West must be curbed.

People watch this crap and get easily brainwashed into loving the US and hating China.

China must do things like this:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/chin...s-on-chinese-video-streaming-sites-1409744165

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## 劉天兆

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HKers also have to fully reform their culture as well.
> 
> For example, the traditional thinking for most HKers is to become lawyer or playing with the finance. Too much obsessiong with these things will only turn people into the finance animals. These things don't really create the real wealth unlike the scientists and engineers, or even the highly skillful workers.
> 
> HKers need to think about the diversified portfolio, to become the more useful professions such as the engineers/scientists/workers/soldiers.
> 
> Only in this way, HK will be revitalized, and not being stagnated anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 香港毕竟是中国领土，如果改邪归正还是要扶持的。
> 
> 但现在这个香港还不真正属于中国，等到一国两制玩不下去的时候再被加以改造，最终和深圳合并。





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HKers also have to fully reform their culture as well.
> 
> For example, the traditional thinking for most HKers is to become lawyer or playing with the finance. Too much obsessiong with these things will only turn people into the finance animals. These things don't really create the real wealth unlike the scientists and engineers, or even the highly skillful workers.
> 
> HKers need to think about the diversified portfolio, to become the more useful professions such as the engineers/scientists/workers/soldiers.
> 
> Only in this way, HK will be revitalized, and not being stagnated anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 香港毕竟是中国领土，如果改邪归正还是要扶持的。
> 
> 但现在这个香港还不真正属于中国，等到一国两制玩不下去的时候再被加以改造，最终和深圳合并。


事实上我觉得你经常混迹这种论坛 你要比我清楚的多 西方对中国的妖魔化到了什么地步。洋人要乱我华夏，香港必定是根据地。改革开放到现在，我们从被洗脑到现在越来越清醒。而反观西方，甚至不用看西方，看台湾经常发言那娘们儿就知道，他们对共产党仇视到了如何癫狂的地步。指望被西方传媒掌控的香港能在几十年时间里完全承认自己的隶属北京的身份，不是很现实。
洋人 港台人 日韩人 全世界人都爱拿共产党说东道西，可事实是真的只有共产党才能救中国。没有一党独裁的霸气跟执行力，哪里来的开放，哪里来的腾飞。要知道我们三十年脱贫的人口比全世界加起来还多。
看到他们如何如何污蔑我强大的祖国，我真的想对他们说，这群靠抢劫起家匪二代，有什么资格去评论共产党。
他们只知道独裁，却不知道什么叫做党内民主，更不知道要执行国家级的发展战略需要多强大的系统执行力。
吃饱饭才能去讨论民主，等全中国都吃穿不愁的时候，也许我们国家自己就会进行民主化转型的。
但我觉得不会和西方普世价值里的精英政治一样，从共产主义发展出的民主模式，也许才是更优秀的。至少我觉得要比金融寡头来领导的议会选举要强的多。

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## Huaren

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China didn't make HK poorer, it is those fcking tycoons from HK.
> 
> One of them just fled when he knew China's national security department was coming for him.



I remember some of my chat with local people in hongkong, like one of the taxi drivers who told me that the common hongkong people are all slaves of tycoons, and how government being useless.

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## Tractor

This thing called 果子in Tianjin thogh means another kind 点心 in Japan.
And this kind more delicious.




And similar Indian food.

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## BoQ77

There's so many tycoons in CN mainland. much worse.


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## Huaren

劉天兆 said:


> 事实上我觉得你经常混迹这种论坛 你要比我清楚的多 西方对中国的妖魔化到了什么地步。洋人要乱我华夏，香港必定是根据地。改革开放到现在，我们从被洗脑到现在越来越清醒。而反观西方，甚至不用看西方，看台湾经常发言那娘们儿就知道，他们对共产党仇视到了如何癫狂的地步。指望被西方传媒掌控的香港能在几十年时间里完全承认自己的隶属北京的身份，不是很现实。
> 洋人 港台人 日韩人 全世界人都爱拿共产党说东道西，可事实是真的只有共产党才能救中国。没有一党独裁的霸气跟执行力，哪里来的开放，哪里来的腾飞。要知道我们三十年脱贫的人口比全世界加起来还多。
> 看到他们如何如何污蔑我强大的祖国，我真的想对他们说，这群靠抢劫起家匪二代，有什么资格去评论共产党。
> 他们只知道独裁，却不知道什么叫做党内民主，更不知道要执行国家级的发展战略需要多强大的系统执行力。
> 吃饱饭才能去讨论民主，等全中国都吃穿不愁的时候，也许我们国家自己就会进行民主化转型的。
> 但我觉得不会和西方普世价值里的精英政治一样，从共产主义发展出的民主模式，也许才是更优秀的。至少我觉得要比金融寡头来领导的议会选举要强的多。



没办法，西方对共产党的妖魔化是根深蒂固的，在德国这里从中学历史课中就开始教育学生厌恶共产党，主要是苏联对欧洲造成的负面影响以及人们当时所经受的恐惧，很多老师都是亲身经历过那一阶段，冷战遗留下来的观念根本没有被改善。而对中国的宣传也是从愚昧落后软弱可欺到邪恶危害环境人权等等。虽然中国发展成就让欧洲人不得不重新调整对中国的认识，但是与之伴随的对共产党的恐惧与厌恶并未得到缓解。

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## ChineseTiger1986

劉天兆 said:


> 事实上我觉得你经常混迹这种论坛 你要比我清楚的多 西方对中国的妖魔化到了什么地步。洋人要乱我华夏，香港必定是根据地。改革开放到现在，我们从被洗脑到现在越来越清醒。而反观西方，甚至不用看西方，看台湾经常发言那娘们儿就知道，他们对共产党仇视到了如何癫狂的地步。指望被西方传媒掌控的香港能在几十年时间里完全承认自己的隶属北京的身份，不是很现实。
> 洋人 港台人 日韩人 全世界人都爱拿共产党说东道西，可事实是真的只有共产党才能救中国。没有一党独裁的霸气跟执行力，哪里来的开放，哪里来的腾飞。要知道我们三十年脱贫的人口比全世界加起来还多。
> 看到他们如何如何污蔑我强大的祖国，我真的想对他们说，这群靠抢劫起家匪二代，有什么资格去评论共产党。
> 他们只知道独裁，却不知道什么叫做党内民主，更不知道要执行国家级的发展战略需要多强大的系统执行力。
> 吃饱饭才能去讨论民主，等全中国都吃穿不愁的时候，也许我们国家自己就会进行民主化转型的。
> 但我觉得不会和西方普世价值里的精英政治一样，从共产主义发展出的民主模式，也许才是更优秀的。至少我觉得要比金融寡头来领导的议会选举要强的多。



兄弟，心里明白就好，这里不太方便多说。

咱们的国家是这个星球上的主角，那些小丑狗腿子说的屁话不必太介意，咱们最大的对手还是美帝，作为以命相搏的最大竞争对手，彼此之间怎么可能会不仇恨对方？ 大多数国人能够看清楚这点就是最大的进步了。

你能够保证有一天美帝垮台后它的那些狗腿子不见风使舵吗？



BoQ77 said:


> Chinese Tiger, could you tell me your own taste.
> Do you prefer an appointed leader by a commitee, or a leader voted by yourself?



Of course the professional committee, who knows what kind of a$$hole is trying to take my vote.

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## Keel

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> A female HK police officer has posted this request (HK needs PLA) on her blog.
> 
> View attachment 96286



craazy. she is a false one
dont eat the bait

ps: how can I change my flag (Greece) to China?

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## BDforever

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Good job HK police, those western propagandists need to be treated in such way.


i watched that live lol


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## Keel

These dramas are just repeat and repeat of chaos / riots in yemen, libya, egypt, syria,...= ( jasmin flower); ukraine
taiwan (sunflower) all masterminded by the brits and cia

the chief officer of the us consulate in hk is a former spy head of usa



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Good job HK police, those western propagandists need to be treated in such way.



all the traitors/ protesters who knelt down IN FRONT OF CNN's camera are a key part of the show!

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## Kolaps

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The pro-Beijing HK government that we elected, by an overwhelming majority, has already declared that the actions of the protestors are illegal under HK law.
> 
> So I would be very disappointed if they were not arrested.



You elect? You are HKer?

From the media in Taiwan, all HK people want democracy.




> Sure, it will look bad overseas, but so what? That's never been a major concern.



US is democracy.

And you try to kick democracy out of HK. It does a major concern.

I don't know how HK can sleep well because of it.




> If foreigners don't like the actions of the HK government, they are welcome to choose another destination for their next vacation. We can live without the $10 they spend in downtown Central on some 魚蛋 that they won't even finish eating. (I think they call it 魚丸 in the Mainland).



魚丸 with pork inside is the best Yuwan in the world...!

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## tonyget

Viet said:


> should CCP try to undermine the HK system, money and people can go elsewhere.




HK system was setup by CCP, why would CCP wants to undermine it ? At the moment , it is some HKers attempt to challenge the current system. 

In fact, CCP has always been take it easy on HKers if you compare to the treatment mainlanders get, even in mainland HKers were given privileged status thanks to CCP.

Yet these ungrateful HKers take CCP's lenient policy as weakness, greedily ask more and more. It's time to stop spoil these brats and teach them some real-world lesson in the hard way.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Kolaps said:


> You elect? You are HKer?
> 
> From the media in Taiwan, all HK people want democracy.



That's BS. 

Check the HK election results for yourself. The overwhelming majority (including myself) voted for the pro-Beijing camp.

The pro-democracy camp received such a pitiful amount of votes, that's why they are acting so desperately now. Because they have no hope of getting into power by voting.

Chief Executive CY Leung already said that all these pro-democracy protests are illegal under HK law, and the protestors will be arrested.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Kolaps said:


> You elect? You are HKer?
> 
> From the media in Taiwan, all HK people want democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US is democracy.
> 
> And you try to kick democracy out of HK. It does a major concern.
> 
> I don't know how HK can sleep well because of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 魚丸 with pork inside is the best Yuwan in the world...!



The military unification will come after you, you clueless Taibazi.

We will smash KMT and DPP altogether.

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## cirr

It is time for Mainland cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen to thrive.

Shanghai should be made THE financial centre of China, not Hong Kong.

It is time for the central government to withdraw policies that has sustained what HK is today。

Patriots like Chinese-Dragon can always find home in Shanghai。

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## Chinese-Dragon

Kolaps said:


> 魚丸 with pork inside is the best Yuwan in the world...!



Our 魚蛋 doesn't have any pork, it's fish.

Combine it with 腸粉 to get one of the best snacks in HK:














cirr said:


> Patriots like Chinese-Dragon can always find home in Shanghai。



I actually wanted to move to Shanghai, or maybe Suzhou.

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## Viet

tonyget said:


> HK system was setup by CCP, why would CCP wants to undermine it ? At the moment , it is some HKers attempt to challenge the current system.
> 
> In fact, CCP has always been take it easy on HKers if you compare to the treatment mainlanders get, even in mainland HKers were given privileged status thanks to CCP.
> 
> Yet these ungrateful HKers take CCP's lenient policy as weakness, greedily ask more and more. It's time to stop spoil these brats and teach them some real-world lesson in the hard way.


NO, not you alone, the current HK system is a compromise between China and UK.
sure, the majority wants to make business and money. the problem is they mistrust the CCP and mainlanders in general.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> In North China, but not South China.
> 
> BTW, before making fun at China, do you ever think the consequence of having the source of your Red River cutting off by us?
> 
> Your North Vietnam will become a barren land first.


I am stating facts, not making fun of water shortage in China. Cutting off the red river? are you mad now?


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## Kolaps

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That's BS.
> 
> Check the HK election results for yourself. The overwhelming majority (including myself) voted for the pro-Beijing camp.



I wonder why majority of HK people choose pro-Beijing rather than the cool, trendy and awesome pro-Washington?

And majority of HK young people love cool things.




> The pro-democracy camp received such a pitiful amount of votes, that's why they are acting so desperately now. Because they have no hope of getting into power by voting.



It's not desperate, but a very well thought and planned movement.

Majority or minority, it doesn't matter.




> Chief Executive CY Leung already said that all these pro-democracy protests are illegal under HK law, and the protestors will be arrested.



It may be illegal.

But power gained by force.

If it hugely supported by the West, illegal can became legal. As well as legal became illegal.

I feel like CY Leung look very small and powerless here.


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## 劉天兆

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 兄弟，心里明白就好，这里不太方便多说。
> 
> 咱们的国家是这个星球上的主角，那些小丑狗腿子说的屁话不必太介意，咱们对打的对手还是美帝，作为以命相搏的最大竞争对手，彼此之间怎么可能会不仇恨对方？ 大多数国人能够看清楚这点就是最大的进步了。
> 
> 你能够保证有一天美帝垮台后它的那些狗腿子不见风使舵吗？
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the professional committee, who knows what kind of a$$hole is trying to take my vote.


呵呵 我也只是没事聊聊。前几天我去一个设计公司面试，老板是个鲜族人。妈蛋见面第一个事儿，跟我说：我们这个公司是来自韩国，我们用的都是韩国的设计方案跟施工工艺，你要想进来的话，做一套图纸，我看看你的设计思维怎么样。虽然我们韩国人做事比较严，但是我觉得你会学到很多东西的！
我当时听她韩国来韩国去的，鬼使神差的讲了一句：对不起，我不进你公司了，我是大国子民。
然后爷昂首挺胸走了出去......出门那一刻，忽然我想起来，我是世界上最大种族的一员，也是世界上最强国家之一的子民。
真事儿，不忽悠。

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## Aepsilons

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Fishballs.
> 
> 
> View attachment 96292
> 
> 
> We call it by a slightly different name in Cantonese than what they use in most of the Mainland.
> 
> Same as Youtiao (油條), in Hong Kong we call it "油炸鬼" (oil fried ghost). Don't ask why, it's a long story.
> 
> I'm not sure how to say it in English (maybe fried dough stick), but it's absolutely amazing:
> 
> View attachment 96297



OMG! Now I'm hungry!

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## Beidou2020

tonyget said:


> HK system was setup by CCP, why would CCP wants to undermine it ? At the moment , it is some HKers attempt to challenge the current system.
> 
> In fact, CCP has always been take it easy on HKers if you compare to the treatment mainlanders get, even in mainland HKers were given privileged status thanks to CCP.
> 
> Yet these ungrateful HKers take CCP's lenient policy as weakness, greedily ask more and more. It's time to stop spoil these brats and teach them some real-world lesson in the hard way.



This is why I said that you give someone an inch, they will take it 100 miles.

Demands never end. 

What we are seeing is the failure of the Chinese intelligence services, failure of the Chinese government to be proactive and for allowing foreign NGO's and foreign journalists to operate inside mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau.

People are blaming the protestors, but these anti-China liberals are always there, so its up to the CPC to keep them down. It's the lack of proper governance that is at fault here.

If the CPC actually had been proactive, they would have known foreign embassies, consulates, NGO's and journalists in China, HK, Macau are there to fund destabilising protest movements. So everyone working in those embassies, consulates, NGOs and media companies must be under 24/7 surveillance to track what they are doing and disrupt their activities.

Chinese government spends billions to keep social stability, but they failed here.

Even after this protest ends, the CPC won't do sh*t. They are more worried about what others will say than doing whats in the best interest of China.

I really hope this will be the trigger to bring the hammer down on foreign NGO's, USAID, foreign journalists, and other troublemakers.

If the CPC don't respond in ruthless fashion to this protest and nip it in the bud, others will take inspiration from this and try to attempt similar movements.

The ball is in the court of the CPC. Let's see what they truly made of.

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## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> Shanghai should be made THE financial centre of China, not Hong Kong.



Shanghai is already the pseudo financial center of the PRC, in my honest opinion. Now, in regards to Hong Kong.

You know that Hong Kong has always been traditionally known as the "Pearl of the Orient". It was referred this , sometimes even regarded as the Paris of the East since the late 18th to early 19th century. Hong Kong, as the Bastion of British power in the Orient, was the financial center of East Asian enterprise, its links throughout Southeast Asia and Northeast Asia is established; having direct contacts with Banks in Thailand, Malaya, Singapore, the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan. The reason why Hong Kong will remain the economic capital of China is because the city has one of the most impressive economic freedom scores in the world; at a score of 90.1, which makes it the top rated economic int he index for the 20th consecutive year. Ask an economist , or political analyst and they'll tell you that Hong Kong has effectively navigated global booms and busts, with an improvement score of 1.6 to boot. Hong Kong has a high degree of market openness, one of the region's highest trade freedom scores, investment freedom, and financial freedom. One word describes Hong Kong: *Transparent regulatory environment with a competitive tax regime.* And that's the reason why Hong Kong will remain the conduit for China and the world, thereby cementing her financial strategic position for the long term.

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## 劉天兆

Huaren said:


> 没办法，西方对共产党的妖魔化是根深蒂固的，在德国这里从中学历史课中就开始教育学生厌恶共产党，主要是苏联对欧洲造成的负面影响以及人们当时所经受的恐惧，很多老师都是亲身经历过那一阶段，冷战遗留下来的观念根本没有被改善。而对中国的宣传也是从愚昧落后软弱可欺到邪恶危害环境人权等等。虽然中国发展成就让欧洲人不得不重新调整对中国的认识，但是与之伴随的对共产党的恐惧与厌恶并未得到缓解。


我属实英语不好，学历不高，只是中国北方的一个小城里的土鳖设计师。现在给我的感觉很怪，西方的老师告诉学生，中国里面是魔鬼，而我们国家的老师则告诉我们中国外面是天堂。我们的人民知道，无论再苦再累，我们也要工作，养家，致富。而在西方人眼里却是中国人可以低估货币，不正当竞争，奴隶工人，百姓没自由，工业污染。
以前的时候总觉得中国老百姓智商不够高（当时很愤青），可是泡翻译论坛还有各种涉外论坛时间久了以后。我才发现，国外老百姓智商尼玛不必我国偏远农村农民工强多少啊，只是多受了点教育而已。

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## Huaren

To bad our central government is standing in the same camp as those hk tycoons because of common interest in maintaining order, but under certain aspect this might be conter productive if we want to build trust with common folks there, so many of them can barely make a living despite the fact of having relatively high income compared with mainland, as example those hongkong locals told me that one persons salary could barely cover the rent of a small run down apartment and how they were all enslaved by the rich, in that sense central government is standing with "slavers" .

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## DV RULES

These protests are result of western forged democratic ideas where CPC failed to provide better living standard to people which fuel more to this situation. 

China should handle with protests with better economic & financial measures rather than force. That's important to reverse foreign tactics giving maximum throttle to fake democratic movement. Social media should be under strict control.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Shanghai is already the pseudo financial center of the PRC, in my honest opinion. Now, in regards to Hong Kong.
> 
> You know that Hong Kong has always been traditionally known as the "Pearl of the Orient". It was referred this , sometimes even regarded as the Paris of the East since the late 18th to early 19th century. Hong Kong, as the Bastion of British power in the Orient, was the financial center of East Asian enterprise, its links throughout Southeast Asia and Northeast Asia is established; having direct contacts with Banks in Thailand, Malaya, Singapore, the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan. The reason why Hong Kong will remain the economic capital of China is because the city has one of the most impressive economic freedom scores in the world; at a score of 90.1, which makes it the top rated economic int he index for the 20th consecutive year. Ask an economist , or political analyst and they'll tell you that Hong Kong has effectively navigated global booms and busts, with an improvement score of 1.6 to boot. Hong Kong has a high degree of market openness, one of the region's highest trade freedom scores, investment freedom, and financial freedom. One word describes Hong Kong: *Transparent regulatory environment with a competitive tax regime.* And that's the reason why Hong Kong will remain the conduit for China and the world, thereby cementing her financial strategic position for the long term.



I actually think that it is very likely that Shanghai will surpass us in this regard.

See the new Shanghai free trade zone, and their incredible growth momentum.

I do not mind, I'm a nationalist. The good of the country is more important than the individual city.

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## Aepsilons

Huaren said:


> To bad our central government is standing in the same camp as those hk tycoons because of common interest in maintaining order, but under certain aspect this might be conter productive if we want to build trust with common folks there, so many of them can barely make a living despite the fact of having relatively high income compared with mainland, as example those hongkong locals told me that one persons salary could barely cover the rent of a small run down apartment and how they were all enslaved by the rich, in that sense central government is standing with "slavers" .



That's the tradeoff in living in a post-industrial city-state like Hong Kong. Cost of living in Hong Kong is even more expensive than in many parts of Japan, let alone compared to countries like South Korea or Taiwan.

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## Kolaps

Beidou2020 said:


> This is why I said that you give someone an inch, they will take it 100 miles.
> 
> Demands never end.
> 
> What we are seeing is the failure of the Chinese intelligence services, failure of the Chinese government to be proactive and for allowing foreign NGO's and foreign journalists to operate inside mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau.
> 
> People are blaming the protestors, but these anti-China liberals are always there, so its up to the CPC to keep them down. It's the lack of proper governance that is at fault here.
> 
> If the CPC actually had been proactive, they would have known foreign embassies, consulates, NGO's and journalists in China, HK, Macau are there to fund destabilising protest movements. So everyone working in those embassies, consulates, NGOs and media companies must be under 24/7 surveillance to track what they are doing and disrupt their activities.
> 
> Chinese government spends billions to keep social stability, but they failed here.
> 
> Even after this protest ends, the CPC won't do sh*t. They are more worried about what others will say than doing whats in the best interest of China.
> 
> I really hope this will be the trigger to bring the hammer down on foreign NGO's, USAID, foreign journalists, and other troublemakers.
> 
> If the CPC don't respond in ruthless fashion to this protest and nip it in the bud, others will take inspiration from this and try to attempt similar movements.
> 
> The ball is in the court of the CPC. Let's see what they truly made of.



Definitely agree with you!

The same with the terrorist attacks, while none happened in the West.



DV RULES said:


> These protests are result of western forged democratic ideas where CPC failed to provide better living standard to people which fuel more to this situation.
> 
> China should handle with protests with better economic & financial measures rather than force. That's important to reverse foreign tactics giving maximum throttle to fake democratic movement. Social media should be under strict control.



Definitely agree with the living standard.

Very poor people!


Chinese people deserve much better.

Work harder than anyone else, but still poor...

Poor people.


You should see people house in HK.


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## 劉天兆

你们说 台湾的傻吊 看得懂简体字么？

对了 还有 夹喷！ 他们看得懂简体字么

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## tonyget

Viet said:


> NO, not you alone, the current HK system is a compromise between China and UK.
> sure, the majority wants to make business and money. the problem is they mistrust the CCP and mainlanders in general.




There was nothing about universal suffage in Sino-British Joint Declaration, those HKers take something didn't exist as granted. 



Democratic development in Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_Attempts to bring Hong Kong citizens on to the negotiatiing table by the British during the Sino-Anglo discussions was rejected by Beijing during the early 1980s. _

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## Chinese-Dragon

Huaren said:


> To bad our central government is standing in the same camp as those hk tycoons because of common interest in maintaining order, but under certain aspect this might be conter productive if we want to build trust with common folks there, so many of them can barely make a living despite the fact of having relatively high income compared with mainland, as example those hongkong locals told me that one persons salary could barely cover the rent of a small run down apartment and how they were all enslaved by the rich, in that sense central government is standing with "slavers" .



I have no ill will towards the central government.

It's not their fault that our HK politicians are useless. That's our own fault.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> That's the tradeoff in living in a post-industrial city-state like Hong Kong. Cost of living in Hong Kong is even more expensive than in many parts of Japan, let alone compared to countries like South Korea or Taiwan.



Yes, property prices in HK are insane, nearly the highest in the world.

Good food is quite cheap though, that's one nice thing.

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## GR!FF!N

why you guys are picking on a foreign journo??if you guys hate these journos so much,why allow them in China at the first place??


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## Beidou2020

Arrest every foreign journalist. Every single one of them. 

Once arrested, only release the journalists that are not destabilising China.

Guilty until proven innocent must be used here.

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## Huaren

劉天兆 said:


> 我属实英语不好，学历不高，只是中国北方的一个小城里的土鳖设计师。现在给我的感觉很怪，西方的老师告诉学生，中国里面是魔鬼，而我们国家的老师则告诉我们中国外面是天堂。我们的人民知道，无论再苦再累，我们也要工作，养家，致富。而在西方人眼里却是中国人可以低估货币，不正当竞争，奴隶工人，百姓没自由，工业污染。
> 以前的时候总觉得中国老百姓智商不够高（当时很愤青），可是泡翻译论坛还有各种涉外论坛时间久了以后。我才发现，国外老百姓智商尼玛不必我国偏远农村农民工强多少啊，只是多受了点教育而已。



准确的说中国并没有被描述成魔鬼，除去部分种族主义分子其他人说的一般都是要联合中国人民反对邪恶的中国政府等等，所谓罪恶都是政府造成的，发展成果都是虚假或跟政府无关等等。当然那些来过中国或跟国人辩论过的会有一些改观，当然也有恼羞成怒走极端。真正被描述成魔鬼的是苏联，其实也可以被理解，毕竟西方人在苏联威胁下生活了数十年，尤其是欧洲人基本都做好下一天就被轰炸（甚至是被核炸）的准备。当时西方反共宣传做的非常到位，即使是在今天很多西方人都还是抱着旧观念不放。

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## Brainsucker

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I have no ill will towards the central government.
> 
> It's not their fault that our HK politicians are useless. That's our own fault.
> 
> Yes, property prices in HK are insane, nearly the highest in the world.
> 
> Good food is quite cheap though, that's one nice thing.



Yeah, my uncle lived in Hongkong. He bought an apartment; and even now (he's already died), He still can't pay fully his own house. Crazy.

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## Huaren

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I have no ill will towards the central government.
> 
> It's not their fault that our HK politicians are useless. That's our own fault.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, property prices in HK are insane, nearly the highest in the world.
> 
> Good food is quite cheap though, that's one nice thing.



Too bad there are still so many people in Hong Kong who does not share your view.
And many common folk in HongKong as in anywhere else wont care much for deep reason of their misery, they just want to blame someone and hold somebody else responsible, also they would want to use oppertunity to lose some steams.

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## Aepsilons

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I actually think that it is very likely that Shanghai will surpass us in this regard.
> 
> See the new Shanghai free trade zone, and their incredible growth momentum.
> 
> I do not mind, I'm a nationalist. The good of the country is more important than the individual city.



On June 29, 2003 , the Commerce Department Deputy Minister An Min, who represented the Central Government in Beijing, signed along with the Hong Kong SAR Financial Secretary Leung Kam Chung, the Mainland and Hong Kong Closer Economic Partnership Arrangement. Six supplementary agreements have been concluded int he years since, which have resulted in smoother cross-border traffic and further integrating the former colony into the Mainland's emerging economy. 

These agreements have broadened the terms of entry by Hong Kong service sector companies into mainland markets. It will now be easier for Hong Kong-based travel agencies, banks, securities, law firms, and logistics to set up a more robust presence anywhere in China. Especially between Hong Kong and Shanghai. 

Both Shanghai and Hong Kong, in my opinion, benefit from comparatively advantageous locations. Situated ont he southern shore of the mouth of the Yangzi River, Shanghai is within easy reach of the Yangzi Delta hinterland and in closer proximity with industrial cities such as Nanjing, Hangzhou, Ningbo, Wuxi and Changzhou. Hong Kong is perched on the South China Sea and straddles the Pearl River Delta. Hong Kong straddles the busiest shipping lanes in the Asia-Pacific region. 

One thing that gives Hong Kong the advantage over Shanghai is the fact that Hong Kong SAR has been able to leverage its position under the "One Country Two Systems" policy to bolster its attractiveness to Direct Foreign Investors who seek greater access to the Chinese market but are wary of the vagaries of Chinese corporate law. Hong Kong, with its transparent regulatory regime, is ideal, in fact, Hong Kong economic regulation is even modeled in the West, Japan, South Korea, Singapore. 

I believe that over time, as China's corporate law becomes better understood by foreign partners, and as China implements a broad-base regulatory regime fixed on transparency, this will eventually negate the importance of Hong Kong , and allow direct rapport between any of the major cities of the PRC to other global partners. And I think its possible.

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## Brainsucker

Kolaps said:


> May be you can help her to find a Vietnamese boyfriend.
> 
> The criteria,
> 
> He must be handsome and able to grow beard.
> 
> Tall, 175cm above.
> 
> Athletic body, but not over bulky.
> 
> Between 23-30 years old.
> 
> Rich parent, owned a company and factory.
> 
> Kind, polite, neat , smart and graduate from US or UK.



Diclong is a girl?


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## Keel

GR!FF!N said:


> why you guys are picking on a foreign journo??if you guys hate these journos so much,why allow them in China at the first place??



you are very welcome to come to HK and bring them to Kashmir India or up in the chicken neck


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## Brainsucker

Keel said:


> craazy. she is a false one
> dont eat the bait
> 
> ps: how can I change my flag (Greece) to China?



Yes Keel is right. Don't eat the bait. Once PLA comes to Hongkong, check mate. A great disaster for China.

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## 劉天兆

Huaren said:


> 准确的说中国并没有被描述成魔鬼，除去部分种族主义分子其他人说的一般都是要联合中国人民反对邪恶的中国政府等等，所谓罪恶都是政府造成的，发展成果都是虚假或跟政府无关等等。当然那些来过中国或跟国人辩论过的会有一些改观，当然也有恼羞成怒走极端。真正被描述成魔鬼的是苏联，其实也可以被理解，毕竟西方人在苏联威胁下生活了数十年，尤其是欧洲人基本都做好下一天就被轰炸（甚至是被核炸）的准备。当时西方反共宣传做的非常到位，即使是在今天很多西方人都还是抱着旧观念不放。


嗯 欧洲确实有情可原，但是 夹喷 红孔 还有 烤瑞鸭 蝇个烂 这几个杂碎对中国妖魔化的有些过头了，真心的。看他们报道，无论好坏，总能听见一群带着有色眼镜的偏见记者跟纂稿人。很多时候都恨不得立刻跟他们吵一架，但是想想自己高中以后英语就废了，还是暂且饶他们一条狗命了。

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## Aepsilons

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Yes, property prices in HK are insane, nearly the highest in the world.
> Good food is quite cheap though, that's one nice thing.



You know, last time I visited Hong Kong by way of Cathay Pacific, I was stunned at the cost of commodities. To be honest, cost of living in Hong Kong is similar to that in Tokyo. Sometimes, even a bit more expensive ! But the food prices were reasonable tho. And one thing that i love is that Hong Kongers cook large quantity. So its like you get what you paid for. 

Not like in Japan where they feed such small portions.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I believe that over time, as China's corporate law becomes better understood by foreign partners, and as China implements a broad-base regulatory regime fixed on transparency, this will eventually negate the importance of Hong Kong , and allow direct rapport between any of the major cities of the PRC to other global partners. And I think its possible.



Absolutely, that's exactly what I thought as well.

But that was inevitable really. Anyway, we are fighters, we can get back our competitive edge in some other way. 

For example, HK Universities are filled with many of the best and brightest students from the Mainland, many of whom stay to work here. 

That has always been at the root of our competitive power, attracting talented individuals from other parts of China.

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## Brainsucker

GR!FF!N said:


> see,thats what I'm talking about..being a dumb doesn't help.if you guys have problem with foreign media,Bar them.we barred Pakistani Channels long ago..
> 
> if they're truly creating troubles,its your right.but later b!tch!ng about it doesn't halp much and portrays you in poor light.
> 
> and about Foreign media in Kashmir and Chicken's Neck..LOL..I live very near of Chicken's Neck.and Foreign Media is free to report from anywhere in India.but I think they've to take some permission for some equipments like satphones and all...over 300 foreign media was in India in early 21st century.I think its over or near thousand by now.



The problem is, that our Chinese friends here suspect that this demonstration is just US strategem to destabilize China. So they fear that those foreign journalists will blow up the story and make China in disadvantage. Well, after reading some of their post, I suspect that some foreign power is behind this demonstration too. But as long as they don't use fire arms, and kill some demonstrators, I don't think that these people will cause unexpected trouble. They can even show that they don't use lethal weapons. So if some demonstrator got shot, they have a proof that it is not Hongkong police doing.

Because, we all know that the danger of a demonstration like this is if some demonstrators get shot and killed, then the Western media blow it up and make your country into chaos.

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## Tractor

Nihonjin1051 said:


> You know, last time I visited Hong Kong by way of Cathay Pacific, I was stunned at the cost of commodities. To be honest, cost of living in Hong Kong is similar to that in Tokyo. Sometimes, even a bit more expensive ! But the food prices were reasonable tho. And one thing that i love is that Hong Kongers cook large quantity. So its like you get what you paid for.
> 
> Not like in Japan where they feed such small portions.


Yours are just like the Shanghainin's style-little quantity of food to serve also.

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## Keel

GR!FF!N said:


> see,thats what I'm talking about..being a dumb doesn't help.if you guys have problem with foreign media,Bar them.we barred Pakistani Channels long ago..
> 
> if they're truly creating troubles,its your right.but later b!tch!ng about it doesn't halp much and portrays you in poor light.
> 
> and about Foreign media in Kashmir and Chicken's Neck..LOL..I live very near of Chicken's Neck.and Foreign Media is free to report from anywhere in India.but I think they've to take some permission for some equipments like satphones and all...over 300 foreign media was in India in early 21st century.I think its over or near thousand by now.



we dictate our own terms which have to be suitable to us Chinese
if you want them take them ALL as if we dont know shit about india
just show the world your progress of becoming the next superpower cant you?
ciao goodbye

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## tonyget

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Not like in Japan where they feed such small portions.




Would u prefer the US huge portion size which is targeted at your typical fat azz Americans ?

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## Huaren

劉天兆 said:


> 嗯 欧洲确实有情可原，但是 夹喷 红孔 还有 烤瑞鸭 蝇个烂 这几个杂碎对的有些过头了，真心的。看他们报道，无论好坏，总能听见一群带着有色眼镜的偏见记者跟纂稿人。很多时候都恨不得立刻跟他们吵一架，但是想想自己高中以后英语就废了，还是暂且饶他们一条狗命了。



呵呵，其实也没什么大不了的，日韩看着中国发展壮大心里当然不是滋味，如果东亚格局回归中央帝国时期的话他们好不容易积累起来自尊和骄傲就不会剩下多少了。所以他们不但会妖魔化中国更加会想方设法扰乱中国发展，从这一角度来看他们会比欧美更急，毕竟中国如果再度崛起首先会影响到他们，另外现在韩国对中日两边都有顾虑（还是值得争取一下的）。而英国在欧洲历史上就出了名的歧视他国善于挑拨离间，史称平衡欧洲大陆各势力以避免对大不列颠造成威胁。

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## Keel

Brainsucker said:


> The problem is, that our Chinese friends here suspect that this demonstration is just US strategem to destabilize China. So they fear that those foreign journalists will blow up the story and make China in disadvantage. Well, after reading some of their post, I suspect that some foreign power is behind this demonstration too. But as long as they don't use fire arms, and kill some demonstrators, I don't think that these people will cause unexpected trouble. They can even show that they don't use lethal weapons. So if some demonstrator got shot, they have a proof that it is not Hongkong police doing.



it is just a very old formula being used repeatedly by usa and the west to overthrow a government

By comparison the HK Police are very kind to the protesters who have blocked the main roads
the brutality of the western police against protesters or even innocent people are known all over the world
just to mention the recent case of Ferguson where a black guy was hot dead, and about the same time 2 black victims were gunned down by the police in st louis and new york and just a couple of days ago another black guy was shot in the leg just because he didnt wear seat belt



mrfly911 said:


> No, you can't.



this is something the techie needs to adjust

thanks

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

劉天兆 said:


> 事实上我觉得你经常混迹这种论坛 你要比我清楚的多 西方对中国的妖魔化到了什么地步。洋人要乱我华夏，香港必定是根据地。改革开放到现在，我们从被洗脑到现在越来越清醒。而反观西方，甚至不用看西方，看台湾经常发言那娘们儿就知道，他们对共产党仇视到了如何癫狂的地步。指望被西方传媒掌控的香港能在几十年时间里完全承认自己的隶属北京的身份，不是很现实。
> 洋人 港台人 日韩人 全世界人都爱拿共产党说东道西，可事实是真的只有共产党才能救中国。没有一党独裁的霸气跟执行力，哪里来的开放，哪里来的腾飞。要知道我们三十年脱贫的人口比全世界加起来还多。
> 看到他们如何如何污蔑我强大的祖国，我真的想对他们说，这群靠抢劫起家匪二代，有什么资格去评论共产党。
> 他们只知道独裁，却不知道什么叫做党内民主，更不知道要执行国家级的发展战略需要多强大的系统执行力。
> 吃饱饭才能去讨论民主，等全中国都吃穿不愁的时候，也许我们国家自己就会进行民主化转型的。
> 但我觉得不会和西方普世价值里的精英政治一样，从共产主义发展出的民主模式，也许才是更优秀的。至少我觉得要比金融寡头来领导的议会选举要强的多。


不一定了，没有GCD中国还是中国。But the actual result is GCD becomes a group of interest group


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## Aepsilons

tonyget said:


> Would u prefer the US huge portion size which is targeted at your typical fat azz Americans ?



Yes, I prefer large quantities. You know why? Because I can always bring the left overs home. Ha ha 



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Absolutely, that's exactly what I thought as well.
> 
> But that was inevitable really. Anyway, we are fighters, we can get back our competitive edge in some other way.
> 
> For example, HK Universities are filled with many of the best and brightest students from the Mainland, many of whom stay to work here.
> 
> That has always been at the root of our competitive power, attracting talented individuals from other parts of China.



People in the Mainland PRC need to appreciate the valuable contribution Hong Kong gives, namely education. And I agree with you, that the universities in Hong Kong are World Class. 

Some of the schools that I know from Hong Kong that receive reciprocity in Japanese Universities include:

1) The University of Hong Kong
2) City University of Hong Kong
3) Hong Kong Polytechnic University
4) Hong Kong Baptist University
5) Lingnan University
6) Caritas Francis Hsu College

I've some friends who are alumni of University of Hong Kong's Master's Program in City / Urban Planning. Apparently it is world renowned for urban planning, urban administration.

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## Aepsilons

Hoping for a speedy resolution in Hong Kong.


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## Hamartia Antidote

It is hardly news when a CNN crew gets tear gassed.

How many people here even noticed this from March
CNN Crew Caught In Tear Gas Cloud In Turkey

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## henry he

let they go on !! after all ,,,,the ones who suffer in the end are not us!


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## Infra_Man99

TheMatador said:


> 无声较量



Actions speak louder than words, but propaganda & values control thoughts, and thoughts control actions. The mental and physical battle must be won.

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## Kolaps

劉天兆 said:


> 我属实英语不好，学历不高，只是中国北方的一个小城里的土鳖设计师。现在给我的感觉很怪，西方的老师告诉学生，中国里面是魔鬼，而我们国家的老师则告诉我们中国外面是天堂。我们的人民知道，无论再苦再累，我们也要工作，养家，致富。而在西方人眼里却是中国人可以低估货币，不正当竞争，奴隶工人，百姓没自由，工业污染。
> 以前的时候总觉得中国老百姓智商不够高（当时很愤青），可是泡翻译论坛还有各种涉外论坛时间久了以后。我才发现，国外老百姓智商尼玛不必我国偏远农村农民工强多少啊，只是多受了点教育而已。



You need to practice your english thou.

You have your change here.


In Taiwan we also being taught that China/Chinese civilization are ugly.

Our teacher laugh and say how stupid old Chinese people mentality for refusing Western superior civilization.


Chinese people of today should have more proud of being Chinese.

And give Chinese people the best of everything!

We will restore Confucianism and kick Christian Democracy and Communism out of China!


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## mike2000

TheMatador said:


> My friend, we started playing the game as superpower only a couple of years ago when we finally abandoned the silly Deng Xiaoping keep a low profile policy. Now we are badass. We always win in the end!



Lool you always win at the end? What's that suppose to mean bro? How many battles/things have you won at the end? Lol 
The ability of the U. S to be able to influence/finance/instigate protests globally against its rivals, is a show of just how powerful and influential it is. In fact China (and to a lesser extent even Russia ) ar still lplaying a defensive game, not because they want but because they are very weak and vulnerable unlike what many of us think. 
In fact even Iran is more /less more successful in thwarting any foreign influence in its country than China /Russia. There are no xijiang like regular terrorists bombings /stabbings etc in Iran, nor are there are any Chechen like terrorists groups roaming the country commiting suicide bombings /fighting the government etc. 

As far as China and Russia can't even handle their internal issues /problems (which I must confess our governments /intelligence agencies have a hand in.. ), then how do they even think they can even challenge us(west/U.S)? Lol 

As for the protests and U. S/U.K involvement, of course I don't find anything wrong in that. As I said any established powers will always try and undermine any upcoming one, irregardless of the country. So no surprise in that, only the naive /stupid who don't understand geo politis will find it immoral /illegal /hegemoistic.  politics is not a fairy tale and never will be 



Beidou2020 said:


> Incredible stupidity to follow that stupid law when it's clear to anyone with a brain that Hong Kong is being used as a launching platform to destabilise mainland China.
> 
> Can't CPC leaders and intelligence agencies in China put the pieces of the puzzle together?
> Are they working for foreign interests (maybe due to corruption)?
> 
> Tell the HK government to crackdown on anything that harms mainland interests. HK and Macau consulates of the US and UK are intelligence gathering organisations against China.
> 
> You give these anti-China people an inch, they will take it 100 miles.
> 
> As I said before, this kind of protest movement or colour revolution is being funded by USAID and NGO's to cause chaos and thus hurt the economy. By hurting the economy you hurt your main rivals.
> 
> Chinese government need to stop playing nice and stop seeking approval of Westerners. It's hurting China.




Lool Even if we did financed the protests , so what? lol this is the law of the jungle, if you can't survive /retaliate then stay silent and hide


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## Kolaps

Huaren said:


> To bad our central government is standing in the same camp as those hk tycoons because of common interest in maintaining order, but under certain aspect this might be conter productive if we want to build trust with common folks there, so many of them can barely make a living despite the fact of having relatively high income compared with mainland, as example those hongkong locals told me that one persons salary could barely cover the rent of a small run down apartment and how they were all enslaved by the rich, in that sense central government is standing with "slavers" .



In HK case, that because everyone want to live in or near the central.

But HK city design is basically flawed.

And the foreign worshiping mentality as well.


I think HK should pass laws and development policies to increase quality of live of their people.

Don't follow Western standard again, but much better!

It seems the inferior mentality still haunted in all our politicians.

Thanks to Christian KMT propaganda.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> I actually think that it is very likely that Shanghai will surpass us in this regard.
> 
> See the new Shanghai free trade zone, and their incredible growth momentum.
> 
> I do not mind, I'm a nationalist. The good of the country is more important than the individual city.



Shanghai is still far to surpass HK in quality level.


But I still blame HK, as well as Taiwan themselves.

We have far earlier start than mainland, that give us advantages.

But we don't use that momentum lately, as our progress and education seems to be stagnant, and our politicians are too busy for democracy idealistic (big thanks to US), while mainland catching up quickly and more focus on development and progress, like on race.

More and more Taiwan companies out compete by mainland competitors. I feel like an idiot!

How can the civilized Taiwanese out compete by barbarian across the strait?


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## Kolaps

Huaren said:


> I remember some of my chat with local people in hongkong, like one of the taxi drivers who told me that the common hongkong people are all slaves of tycoons, and how government being useless.



The same in Taiwan too.

For the shake of export, to give advantage to Taiwan companies over foreign competitors, our salary standard suppressed.

People are starting to running away.


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## Kolaps

劉天兆 said:


> 事实上我觉得你经常混迹这种论坛 你要比我清楚的多 西方对中国的妖魔化到了什么地步。洋人要乱我华夏，香港必定是根据地。改革开放到现在，我们从被洗脑到现在越来越清醒。而反观西方，甚至不用看西方，看台湾经常发言那娘们儿就知道，他们对共产党仇视到了如何癫狂的地步。指望被西方传媒掌控的香港能在几十年时间里完全承认自己的隶属北京的身份，不是很现实。
> 洋人 港台人 日韩人 全世界人都爱拿共产党说东道西，可事实是真的只有共产党才能救中国。没有一党独裁的霸气跟执行力，哪里来的开放，哪里来的腾飞。要知道我们三十年脱贫的人口比全世界加起来还多。
> 看到他们如何如何污蔑我强大的祖国，我真的想对他们说，这群靠抢劫起家匪二代，有什么资格去评论共产党。
> 他们只知道独裁，却不知道什么叫做党内民主，更不知道要执行国家级的发展战略需要多强大的系统执行力。
> 吃饱饭才能去讨论民主，等全中国都吃穿不愁的时候，也许我们国家自己就会进行民主化转型的。
> 但我觉得不会和西方普世价值里的精英政治一样，从共产主义发展出的民主模式，也许才是更优秀的。至少我觉得要比金融寡头来领导的议会选举要强的多。



Nope, you are wrong!

It's Confucianism who save China!

Not Communism nor Democracy!


Do you think Taiwan and HK are kind of foreign ideology worshiper?

What we do is just being a Chinese. Unlike in mainland, we have freedom to do it.

We don't care about democracy, etc. Just some US bribed politicians and controlled media who care about democracy.

That is why we are successful.

And now you have freedom to be a Chinese.


And you should do it great this time!


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## GR!FF!N

Keel said:


> we dictate our own terms which have to be suitable to us Chinese
> if you want them take them ALL as if we dont know shit about india
> just show the world your progress of becoming the next superpower cant you?
> ciao goodbye



to dictate your own terms,you've to remain consistent.providing Visa to make them coverage of news and later b!tch!ng about it is contradictory and showing inconsistency.perhaps your country doesn't share your concern.


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## Ragnar

TheMatador said:


> Gas them and make soap with their body!



Also make boots from their skins.

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## Levina

Chinese-Dragon said:


> LOL, bad idea.  You won't like it.
> 
> I'll tell you anyway. There was this General in Ancient China called Yue Fei (from Henan province), he is one of the great patriots and folk heroes in Chinese history, and widely revered for leading the fight against the Jurchen-led Jin Dynasty.
> 
> But he was framed, and betrayed by the Song Dynasty official Qin Hui and his wife, and thus our great hero was executed.
> 
> The two dough sticks represent Qin Hui and his wife, who framed and executed Yue Fei. That's why the name in Cantonese is "oil fried ghost" (油炸鬼), because every time we fry the two sticks of Youtiao (油條), we are frying the traitorous couple.


Oh the poor Yue fei! 

And his wife who cheated him is now an "oil fried ghost", serves 'em right. 



Tractor said:


> This thing called 果子in Tianjin thogh means another kind 点心 in Japan.
> And this kind more delicious.
> View attachment 96333
> 
> And similar Indian food.
> View attachment 96334


Just FYI:
Poori is very different from those youtiao.Pooris 're like soft & deep fried tortillas. 

Sorry for the OT

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## sahaliyan

Demon-crazy

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## Sasquatch

NGOs need to be kicked out, HK police is more than enough to handle this.

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## sword1947

劉天兆 said:


> NO ZUO NO DIE!


They do not know this, so they still try

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I actually think that it is very likely that Shanghai will surpass us in this regard.
> 
> See the new Shanghai free trade zone, and their incredible growth momentum.
> 
> I do not mind, I'm a nationalist. The good of the country is more important than the individual city.



I thought you would choose Shenzhen since many HKers choose to live there.

Shanghai simply has more Taiwanese in comparison.

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## henry he

cnleio said:


> It looks like 1989 Tian An Men.


they deserve it!

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## Brainsucker

levina said:


> Oh the poor Yue fei!
> 
> And his wife who cheated him is now an "oil fried ghost", serves 'em right.
> 
> 
> Just FYI:
> Poori is very different from those youtiao.Pooris 're like soft & deep fried tortillas.
> 
> Sorry for the OT



I don't get it. It was Yue Fei's wife who betrayed the general, or Qin Hui's wife who co-conspiracy against the loyal general?


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## henry he

Viet said:


> Waves of Chinese refugees to Vietnam in hundreds of years will tell you another story.
> 
> Most of Chinese descents living today in Malaysia and Indonesia have their ancestors root in Vietnam if you don't know.





rockstar08 said:


> why doing this March ? just dial 911 and call uncle sam  they will bring Democracy


yes!!hahahaha ,,,,lol ,,, so-called democracy has killed so many people in ukraine, iraq, Libya， and syria. when USA wants to destroy a country ,he will send democracy to the country first ,,,,,,really so kind!!!



Viet said:


> Waves of Chinese refugees to Vietnam in hundreds of years will tell you another story.
> 
> Most of Chinese descents living today in Malaysia and Indonesia have their ancestors root in Vietnam if you don't know.


ok ,china is much poorer than vietnam ,ok ??are you satisfied ?



Kolaps said:


> Definitely agree with you!
> 
> The same with the terrorist attacks, while none happened in the West.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely agree with the living standard.
> 
> Very poor people!
> 
> 
> Chinese people deserve much better.
> 
> Work harder than anyone else, but still poor...
> 
> Poor people.
> 
> 
> You should see people house in HK.


yes ,we are too poor ,come to help us ,,,,,,,,godness! come on ,baby,,,,can't you be smart,,,,,,i know in your eyes china is always poor to maintain your superior feeling ,,,,but tell the truth ,,ten years ago ,i do think taiwan is much richer ,,but now ,taiwan is a rubbish to me ,,,by the way ,i am in shenzhen now ,,, seems not worse than taiwan..



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hoping for a speedy resolution in Hong Kong.


dream on !!!

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## TheMatador

mike2000 said:


> Lool you always win at the end? What's that suppose to mean bro? How many battles/things have you won at the end? Lol
> The ability of the U. S to be able to influence/finance/instigate protests globally against its rivals, is a show of just how powerful and influential it is. In fact China (and to a lesser extent even Russia ) ar still lplaying a defensive game, not because they want but because they are very weak and vulnerable unlike what many of us think.
> In fact even Iran is more /less more successful in thwarting any foreign influence in its country than China /Russia. There are no xijiang like regular terrorists bombings /stabbings etc in Iran, nor are there are any Chechen like terrorists groups roaming the country commiting suicide bombings /fighting the government etc.
> 
> As far as China and Russia can't even handle their internal issues /problems (which I must confess our governments /intelligence agencies have a hand in.. ), then how do they even think they can even challenge us(west/U.S)? Lol
> 
> As for the protests and U. S/U.K involvement, of course I don't find anything wrong in that. As I said any established powers will always try and undermine any upcoming one, irregardless of the country. So no surprise in that, only the naive /stupid who don't understand geo politis will find it immoral /illegal /hegemoistic.  politics is not a fairy tale and never will be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lool Even if we did financed the protests , so what? lol this is the law of the jungle, if you can't survive /retaliate then stay silent and hide


 You think USA is influential because you do not live in China (or Russia I presume). Nobody gives a r@ts a$$ about USA and its "magical" influence here because our media is not open to foreigners 

China.... the Celestial Empire.... the most powerful nation in East Asia if not the world!!!

We defeated superpowers USA and Soviet Union. We defeated Japan, India, Vietnam and Philippines. Nobody on this planet is as badass as us these days


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## Kolaps

henry he said:


> yes ,we are too poor ,come to help us ,,,,,,,,godness! come on ,baby,,,,can't you be smart,,,,,,i know in your eyes china is always poor to maintain your superior feeling ,,,,but tell the truth ,,ten years ago ,i do think taiwan is much richer ,,but now ,taiwan is a rubbish to me ,,,by the way ,i am in shenzhen now ,,, seems not worse than taiwan..



We already did much to help you.

Like for example, Shenzhen.

You are living in Shenzhen now, do you like it?

Do you owned an apartment and a car?


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## henry he

Kolaps said:


> We already did much to help you.
> 
> Like for example, Shenzhen.
> 
> You are living in Shenzhen now, do you like it?
> 
> Do you owned an apartment and a car?


i just earn money here ,,,then take my money to buy a house in another city ,,,i don't want to quarrel with you, please come to mainland and have a look ,



Kolaps said:


> We already did much to help you.
> 
> Like for example, Shenzhen.
> 
> You are living in Shenzhen now, do you like it?
> 
> Do you owned an apartment and a car?


sorry for telling the truth ,taiwan is only a dog of USA ,,,,no matter what you do,even your own affair, you will have to get usa's agree

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## TheMatador

Keel said:


> another black guy was shot in the leg just because he didnt wear seat belt


 Severe penalty for not wearing a seatbelt. I guess everybody buckles up.



Brainsucker said:


> Yes Keel is right. Don't eat the bait. Once PLA comes to Hongkong, check mate. A great disaster for China.


No I think Type 099A2 tanks in Central would be really cool  Aren't going to run anybody down of course. Just show up for fun and scare some people watch them run away LOL ROFL


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## NiceGuy

Oh my God, a stupid 17 years old kid like Joshua Wong can become a leader in protest. Why China Govt cant handle even a low IQ kid ??


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## Infra_Man99

mike2000 said:


> Lool you always win at the end? What's that suppose to mean bro? How many battles/things have you won at the end? Lol
> The ability of the U. S to be able to influence/finance/instigate protests globally against its rivals, is a show of just how powerful and influential it is. In fact China (and to a lesser extent even Russia ) ar still lplaying a defensive game, not because they want but because they are very weak and vulnerable unlike what many of us think.
> In fact even Iran is more /less more successful in thwarting any foreign influence in its country than China /Russia. There are no xijiang like regular terrorists bombings /stabbings etc in Iran, nor are there are any Chechen like terrorists groups roaming the country commiting suicide bombings /fighting the government etc.
> 
> As far as China and Russia can't even handle their internal issues /problems (which I must confess our governments /intelligence agencies have a hand in.. ), then how do they even think they can even challenge us(west/U.S)? Lol
> 
> As for the protests and U. S/U.K involvement, of course I don't find anything wrong in that. As I said any established powers will always try and undermine any upcoming one, irregardless of the country. So no surprise in that, only the naive /stupid who don't understand geo politis will find it immoral /illegal /hegemoistic.  politics is not a fairy tale and never will be
> 
> Lool Even if we did financed the protests , so what? lol this is the law of the jungle, if you can't survive /retaliate then stay silent and hide



I already told you your ideas are dumb. By your own stupid standards, Muslim terrorists/rebels are the world's most powerful community. Next up are illegal immigrants from Latin America. In reality, things are more complex than your idiotic fantasies.


Anyhow, going back to more relevant matters . . .

Notice how the US government, US media, and US corporations do not support the independence of Catalonia from Spain and Scotland from the UK. They support divide and conquer for Eastern Europe, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Palestine, Russia, China, etc. They use some excuses about freedom and human rights to hide their true goals.


Update:
US media is reporting about Keith Rose, who is a white guy in the US and who created protest signs that support both the black American community's Michael Brown protests and Hong Kong protests. The US media is also spreading rumors that the Hong Kong protests support the Michael Brown protests.

Maybe the US media is getting desperate. The US media is desperately trying to direct attention away from the Michael Brown protests and into the Hong Kong protests.

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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If it doesn't work, then the "One Country Two Systems" will be abolished, and HK will be fully integrated into China.


And u will get a hard sanction from US when breaking 'human rights' in HK, ur economy will collapse


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## NiceGuy

Seem like the US wanna send a strong message to China to remind Mr.Xi that who is the big boss. If China dont wanna get sanction, then be nice, and work hard to make US boss happy again


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## Infra_Man99

NiceGuy said:


> Seem like the US wanna send a strong message to China to remind Mr.Xi that who is the big boss. If China dont wanna get sanction, then be nice, and work hard to make US boss happy again



It's more like you are masturbating to your own fantasies, and boasting about it.

Meanwhile, Vietnam is still poisoned by Agent Orange and begging anyone to help them with the SCS disputes. Vietnamese are too dumb to protest for a better government and way too dumb to build a great nation, so they wade across rivers in plastic bags.

Vietnam's bridge in a bag

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## AgentOrange

Chinese-Dragon said:


> This is our own fault, so we should have the responsibility to fix it.
> 
> The only reason I wish for the Mainland to help is because the HK government is so weak and useless, they can't even uphold their own laws.
> 
> This is a good lesson for us though, this is why the Mainland should never move towards a Western-style democracy, in a Chinese society it only results in political chaos like in HK and Taiwan.



The tricky part is that any help from Beijing will only inflame those troublemaking idiots even more. What do your friends and family have to say about the protests so far? I'm curious as to what their opinions are.



BoQ77 said:


> There's so many tycoons in CN mainland. much worse.



Luckily for Vietnam, it's so poor and backwards that there are literally no tycoons...or any wealthy people for that matter. Vietnam...so much better than China because everyone in Vietnam is Sub-Saharan Africa poor.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Brainsucker said:


> I don't get it. It was Yue Fei's wife who betrayed the general, or Qin Hui's wife who co-conspiracy against the loyal general?



The two sticks of dough represent Qin Hui and the wife of Qin Hui (Lady Wang).

So when we deep fry the Youtiao, we are deep frying this traitorous couple, who plotted against, framed and executed the hero Yue Fei.

And thus they betrayed China, in favor of the Jurchen-led Jin Dynasty. Since Yue Fei was the one leading the fight against them.

Here are their statues in Hangzhou, Zhejiang province, kneeling in front of the tomb of Yue Fei.






These statues are regularly cursed at, spit at, and often vandalized. That's how much loathing people feel towards these two traitors.

Hence the Cantonese alternative name for Youtiao, "oil fried ghost/devil" (油炸鬼). Two oil fried sticks, representing the two traitors, hand in hand.

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## Kolaps

henry he said:


> i just earn money here ,,,then take my money to buy a house in another city ,,,i don't want to quarrel with you, please come to mainland and have a look ,



Mainland is growing fast.

But there still a lot of homework need to be done.




> sorry for telling the truth ,taiwan is only a dog of USA ,,,,no matter what you do,even your own affair, you will have to get usa's agree



That depend on the which part of Taiwan.

There are democracy's dog in Taiwan, as well as Confucian patriots.

As well as in mainland too, communist's dog and Confucian patriots.


Only US is democracy.

No democracy except US.



NiceGuy said:


> Oh my God, a stupid 17 years old kid like Joshua Wong can become a leader in protest. Why China Govt cant handle even a low IQ kid ??
> View attachment 97103



Joshua... sound like a Christian name.

Btw, his hair style look like an IDIOT!

And the face of a MAD person.


Kind of depressing to see this....

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The two sticks of dough represent Qin Hui and the wife of Qin Hui (Lady Wang).
> 
> So when we deep fry the Youtiao, we are deep frying this traitorous couple, who plotted against, framed and executed the hero Yue Fei.
> 
> And thus they betrayed China, in favor of the Jurchen-led Jin Dynasty. Since Yue Fei was the one leading the fight against them.
> 
> Here are their statues in Hangzhou, Zhejiang province, kneeling in front of the tomb of Yue Fei.
> 
> View attachment 97155
> 
> 
> These statues are regularly cursed at, spit at, and often vandalized. That's how much loathing people feel towards these two traitors.
> 
> Hence the Cantonese name for Youtiao, "oil fried ghost/devil" (油炸鬼). Two oil fried sticks, representing the two traitors, hand in hand.



The liberals maintain a soft spineless stance against the aggressive foreigners, they are the modern Qin Kuai who always seeks to sell China out.

Also, the liberals are trying to white wash for Qin Kuai and to deny the patriotism of Yue Fei.

三论岳飞绝不是“民族英雄”_评论_腾讯网

Tencent is the haven for the traitorous liberals, who wants to convince people that is OK for everyone to become Qin Kuai.

The US is simply retarded by using these idiots to convince the Chinese people to stir up a color revolution against CPC, but it has only backfired their plan.

The US and the pro-West democrazy supporters believed that they are smart by distorting China's history, but they didn't realize that they have already pissed off the ordinary Chinese folks and pushed them more towards CPC's side in the end.

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## Sasquatch

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Very true. The pro-Beijing camp always gets the vast majority of the votes in the HK elections, but the sore losers can't accept that.
> 
> 
> 
> Per capita GDP in nominal terms is not a very good measure.
> 
> I've traveled across the Mainland a lot, and I think a lot of cities there have a higher standard of living than Hong Kong.



You should stay in HK my friend we need more of your type, these protests are by idealist students who have no clue what they are doing, riled by the US NGOS. Repeat of the Ukraine protests.

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## Levina

Brainsucker said:


> I don't get it. It was Yue Fei's wife who betrayed the general, or Qin Hui's wife who co-conspiracy against the loyal general?


Oh my bad!
I had misunderstood the story I thought it was Yue Fei's wife when in reality it was Qin's wife.
This is what I read....
Lady Wang devised a plan to execute Yue. She told Qin to slip an execution notice inside the skin of an orange and send it to the judge presiding over Yue's case. This way, Yue and his companions would be put to death before the emperor or Qin himself would have to rescind an open order of execution. This conspiracy became known as the "East Window Plot".

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The liberals maintain a soft spineless stance against the aggressive foreigners, they are the modern Qin Kuai who always seeks to sell China out.
> 
> Also, the liberals are trying to white wash for Qin Kuai and to deny the patriotism of Yue Fei.
> 
> 三论岳飞绝不是“民族英雄”_评论_腾讯网
> 
> Tencent is the haven for the traitorous liberals, who wants to convince people that is OK for everyone to become Qin Kuai.
> 
> The US is retarded by using these idiots to convince the Chinese people to stir up a color revolution against CPC, but it has only backfired their plan.
> 
> The US and the pro-West democrazy supporters believed that they are smart by distorting China's history, but they didn't realize that they have simply pissed the ordinary Chinese folks off and pushed them more towards CPC at the end.



We will remember those anti-China traitors for a long time.

Qin Hui and his wife murdered Yue Fei and betrayed China a thousand years ago, but we still deep fry them every morning for breakfast. 

And they still have to bow in front of Yue Fei's tomb, maybe for the rest of eternity.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We will remember those anti-China traitors for a long time.
> 
> Qin Hui and his wife murdered Yue Fei and betrayed China a thousand years ago, but we still deep fry them every morning for breakfast.



Yet those liberals are still trying to become the new Qin Hui.

All those anti-CPC Chinese liberals are born sub-humans with an IQ lower than a monkey.

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## Levina

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We will remember those anti-China traitors for a long time.
> 
> Qin Hui and his wife murdered Yue Fei and betrayed China a thousand years ago, but we still deep fry them every morning for breakfast.


I was shocked when I saw these kneeling iron statues.Were Lady Wang and Qin Hui also executed??








This trip to China and far east has been an enlightening one. 
Now you guys can expect me posting more OTs in your forum.

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## ChineseTiger1986

levina said:


> I was shocked when I saw these kneeling iron statues.Were Lady Wang and Qin Hui also executed??
> 
> View attachment 97231
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This trip to China and far east has been an enlightening one.
> Now you guys can expect me postings more OTs in your forum.



They weren't executed at the end of their life time, but getting condemned and cursed by the future generation forever.

But they are also the role model for the modern Chinese liberals.

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## Levina

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They were executed, but getting condemned and cursed by the future generation forever.
> 
> But they are the role model for the modern Chinese liberals.


Errrr in the South Asian section I've earned enough brick bats for being a liberal myself.
So I often run out of words when liberals from other parts of the world get blamed.

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## Chinese-Dragon

levina said:


> This trip to China and far east has been an enlightening one.
> Now you guys can expect me postings more OTs in your forum.



No problem buddy. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions as well.

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## ChineseTiger1986

levina said:


> Errrr in the South Asian section I've earned enough brick bats for being a liberal myself.
> So I often run out of words when liberals from other parts of the world get blamed.



I made a typo, Qin and his wife didn't get executed at the end, but a patriot like Yue Fei got executed by his corrupt/spineless/selfish emperor.

That's why the Chinese liberals believe it is better to be Qin Kuai than to be Yue Fei.

BTW, the liberals in the different countries are different, but the Chinese liberals are the most disgusting creatures that I have ever seen in my life.

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## Levina

Chinese-Dragon said:


> No problem buddy. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions as well.


Lolzzz
You've no idea what you're asking for. 
Now brace up and get ready to get tortured by my questions. 



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I made a typo, Qin and his wife didn't get executed at the end, but a patriot like Yue Fei got executed by his corrupt/spineless/selfish emperor.
> 
> That's why the Chinese liberals believe it is better to be Qin Kuai than to be Yue Fei.
> 
> BTW, the liberals in the different countries are different, but the Chinese liberals are the most disgusting creatures that I have ever seen in my life.



Yeah I noticed that. 
I was about to ask you which version is right. 


Thank you guys!!!

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> BTW, the liberals in different countries are different, but the Chinese liberals are the most disgusting creatures that I have ever seen.



You are right, liberals are different in every country. And Chinese liberals might be the worst in the world.

Even liberals from other countries would hate them.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You are right, they are different in every country. And Chinese liberals might be the worst in the world.



BTW, if the HKers still remember the old Qin Hui, then they should also see that the modern Qin Hui is now doing everything to destabilize HK in order to appease their master.

A Hanjian will never admit himself/herself as a Hanjian, and they will pretend that they are patriotic, but their actual actions speak otherwise.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> BTW, if the HKers still remember the old Qin Hui, then they should also see that the modern Qin Hui is now doing everything to destabilize HK in order to appease their master.
> 
> A Hanjian will never admit that he/she is a Hanjian, and they will pretend that they are patriotic, but their actual actions speak otherwise.



And the modern Hanjian will share the same fate as Qin Hui, being cursed and hated for the rest of eternity.

Luckily the Mainland is awake now, and they can clearly see the difference between patriots, and traitors who serve foreign interests.

That's the most important thing, since the Mainland is the heart of Chinese civilization. As long as they stay strong, then the Chinese civilization will continue to rise again.

Even if HK and Taiwan fall into political chaos, and economic stagnation.

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## Huaren

What greatly disturbes me is the fact that so many kids are on the street, supposely lots 16-18 and even some claim of 12 year old, I am assuming they are with parents otherwise there would be some really nasty human scums who dont even pay attention to their children. Unlike 1989 when those who joined in beijing were mostly university students or young adults, who should have fully developed common sense and political understanding by then to be fully responsible for their own action (eventhough they were fooled and used), whats happening now in hongkong is even more irresponsible, those school and parents who let their kids out on the street deserve to be charged.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And the modern Hanjian will share the same fate as Qin Hui, being cursed and hated for the rest of eternity.
> 
> Luckily the Mainland is awake now, and they can clearly see the difference between patriots, and traitors who serve foreign interests.
> 
> That's the most important thing, since the Mainland is the heart of Chinese civilization. As long as they stay strong, then the Chinese civilization will continue to rise again.
> 
> Even if HK and Taiwan fall into political chaos, and economic stagnation.



American Conservatives = White Supremacists
American Liberals = American Nationalists in a state sense

Chinese Conservatives = Chinese Nationalists in a state sense
Chinese Liberals = self-hating sellout

That's why the American liberals will always be our biggest opponent, since we are just representing our country in a different perspective from them.

Whereas if the American conservatives take in charge, they will guarantee an easy victory for China, since the American conservatives are just as self-destructive as the Chinese liberals, albeit in a different way.

Ironically, the most racist states in the US are the most keen ones to break the US off by seceding from it.

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## Genesis

at 9:50.

This is a good movie, in that the effects are good, but story is lame. 

Now why did I want to show that part, it perfectly describes the situation now.

天下万物,朕给你的,才是你的,朕不给你,你不能抢.

All things under the heavens, if Zhen (a name emperors use to address themselves) gives it to you, then it's yours, if Zhen doesn't, you can't take it.


Hong Kong's current situation is given to them by China, if we wish it, you can have it, if not we will take it all back. Agreements with the British means nothing, the British are nothing, they took HK in the first place when we were nothing, so now it's only appropriate that we honor nothing when they are nothing. 

The people of Hong Kong must understand, even if we did bend and grant elections, do they not think we can easily bend people to our will. I don't mean blackmail, I just mean we have so much resources at our disposal, especially the HK elite need China, and even if they didn't they can be bought or forced(see, I doubt they are very clean, any attempt to investigate them would certainly return results, no?), we can make life very difficult for whoever elected that doesn't want to work with us.


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## Brainsucker

To tell the truth, in my point of view, free election is not a bad thing. Choosing a local government in a democracy way doesn't mean that Hongkong will become a different country / split from China. Indonesia has the experience of having free election, from our highest government entity, the president, governor, to our local government, the mayor. But it doesn't mean that my town is not an Indonesia town anymore.

The problem is with China is, They are a communism government. So their political system will be very different to Indonesia; which is a full democracy country (although right now we struggle for our democracy right). But China and Hongkong has an agreement that you call "one country two system". And you even consider Hongkong as different country. Look at the Asian Game. Even Hongkong and Macau has their own athlete representative. So in my own view of point, Hongkong should has the right to decide their own government system. BUT I understand what Beijing afraid of. A fully independent local government will definitely hard to control. And Beijing is definitely has the right to control Hongkong, as Hongkong is still considered as a part of China.

So, I think the best way to solve Hongkong problem is that both parties can compromise and seek the middle way to solve their difference. According to Chinese Dragon, Beijing has given some election right to Hongkong people, by choosing some representative that is already accepted by CCP. I think it is already a good progress. So, now Hongkong people should be patient and accept this "Middle Way" rather than forcing their will to get a free election.

If both parties accepted the limited democracy that Beijing offer, the democracy in Hongkong can progress in a slow and step by step way. The next step should be that CCP should open a branch in Hongkong that can accommodate Hongkong people who want to join politic and voice their political view. And these Hongkong People who join the CCP branch should be prioritize to join the election. By then, Beijing just need to watch their branch in Hongkong, and Hongkong CCP party just need to watch the local government like in a democracy country where the Parliament watch their government.

I think it is already a democracy model of a government. 

A multiple parties democracy is not better than a single party government. Because having more than one political parties who have different political ideology will only hampered the country. I don't believe political party. They are not people representative, and they are usually just act like a parasite who always disturb Government's plan. So a single party democracy will be better for Hongkong who seek a democracy model of government. But once again, it should go step by step. Not just doing giant leap that will only destabilize the country.

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## Aepsilons

Brainsucker said:


> To tell the truth, in my point of view, free election is not a bad thing. Choosing a local government in a democracy way doesn't mean that Hongkong will become a different country / split from China. Indonesia has the experience of having free election, from our highest government entity, the president, governor, to our local government, the mayor. But it doesn't mean that my town is not an Indonesia town anymore.
> 
> The problem is with China is, They are a communism government. So their political system will be very different to Indonesia; which is a full democracy country (although right now we struggle for our democracy right). But China and Hongkong has an agreement that you call "one country two system". And you even consider Hongkong as different country. Look at the Asian Game. Even Hongkong and Macau has their own athlete representative. So in my own view of point, Hongkong should has the right to decide their own government system. BUT I understand what Beijing afraid of. A fully independent local government will definitely hard to control. And Beijing is definitely has the right to control Hongkong, as Hongkong is still considered as a part of China.
> 
> So, I think the best way to solve Hongkong problem is that both parties can compromise and seek the middle way to solve their difference. According to Chinese Dragon, Beijing has given some election right to Hongkong people, by choosing some representative that is already accepted by CCP. I think it is already a good progress. So, now Hongkong people should be patient and accept this "Middle Way" rather than forcing their will to get a free election.
> 
> If both parties accepted the limited democracy that Beijing offer, the democracy in Hongkong can progress in a slow and step by step way. The next step should be that CCP should open a branch in Hongkong that can accommodate Hongkong people who want to join politic and voice their political view. And these Hongkong People who join the CCP branch should be prioritize to join the election. By then, Beijing just need to watch their branch in Hongkong, and Hongkong CCP party just need to watch the local government like in a democracy country where the Parliament watch their government.
> 
> I think it is already a democracy model of a government.
> 
> A multiple parties democracy is not better than a single party government. Because having more than one political parties who have different political ideology will only hampered the country. I don't believe political party. They are not people representative, and they are usually just act like a parasite who always disturb Government's plan. So a single party democracy will be better for Hongkong who seek a democracy model of government. But once again, it should go step by step. Not just doing giant leap that will only destabilize the country.



A well articulated post, @Brainsucker . Thank you for sharing your view.

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## Infra_Man99

As informed people probably know, the China media exposed more evidence of ties between Hong Kong's protest leaders and US agents. As on now, I am unable to post news article links. I could post YouTube video links. I don't know why this website has this type of a restriction.

In one case, the US agents tried to secretly work with a Hong Kong protest leader in Macau, China at the Venetian Macao, which is owned by *Las Vegas Sands Corp*. China's surveillance network fortunately monitored this secret activity. The secret plan involved US instructions and material support for the Hong Kong protest leader. In return, the Hong Kong useful idiot would protest against China and protest in favor of change secretly controlled by the US.

The *Las Vegas Sands Corp.* is owned by Sheldon Adelson. Sheldon Adelson is a Zionist Jew who was accused swindling various business partners and of bribing Chinese officials. Sheldon Adelson legally bribes US government officials, especially those connected to the Republican Party. Sheldon Adelson thoroughly supports Israel's genocide of Palestine.

As you could see, the Zionist West uses its government bureaus and private businesses to perform secret activities for the detriment of others. At the same time, the Zionist West hypocritically boasts it has the freest and most fair government and businesses. The courageous Snowden already showed the secret ties between US electronics companies, US websites, and US government. The secret ties are used for espionage and covert activities.

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## FairAndUnbiased

@ChineseTiger1986

I think its not that simple. There are Chinese hard conservatives who are extremely anti-CPC and social liberals that are pro-CPC. For example, Okemos, Sahalian and Kolaps are all neocons that want regression back to pure Confucianism and think that the only way to do that is to get rid of the CPC.


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## 劉天兆

Kolaps said:


> Nope, you are wrong!
> 
> It's Confucianism who save China!
> 
> Not Communism nor Democracy!
> 
> 
> Do you think Taiwan and HK are kind of foreign ideology worshiper?
> 
> What we do is just being a Chinese. Unlike in mainland, we have freedom to do it.
> 
> We don't care about democracy, etc. Just some US bribed politicians and controlled media who care about democracy.
> 
> That is why we are successful.
> 
> And now you have freedom to be a Chinese.
> 
> 
> And you should do it great this time!


其实我建议你有时间来大陆看看，不要被所谓的媒体蒙蔽了双眼。在我现在生存的土地上，正在进行的是全世界史无前例的迅速崛起。庞大且有效的基础设施建设、迅速而有效地惠民政策、极高强度的反腐工作正在进行。
如果你认为仅仅是一种虚妄的思想或者一种空泛的主义拯救了中国，那我觉得你才是大错特错。
你所了解的中国近代史跟现代史，在我看来是有所偏颇的。
首先就自由而言，我的国家是有自由的，为什么这么说，是因为我们可以跟全世界任何一个国家发出不一样的声音。我们不必附和任何人的观点。
我们可以在50年代刚刚接管一片疮痍的中国时勇敢的对16个国家的联合军说：滚出我朋友的土地！
我们可以在60年代一穷二白的时候勇敢的跟苏联说：滚开我的土地！
我们可以这么做，请问你们在那个年代还有哪个国家可以这么做！
这是我们国家的自由，让世界华人所骄傲的自由。
至于你说的那种自由，我们并不缺，只不过为了国家的发展，我们必须做出牺牲！
我们设置贸易壁垒，为的是保护华人企业，我们在两个世纪的时间里面惨遭杀戮跟践踏。我们建国的时候这片土地上什么都没有，我们仅仅几十年从头开始的技术积累，完全无法抗衡西方的技术积淀，完全开放就意味着国家必亡。
我们限制言论自由，因为这个时候只有一个声音是中国需要的——如何让中国更加富强！我们要复兴并且回归本来属于我们的位置！过去十七个世纪里面我们都是世界的巅峰，我们要回来！
西方世界跟台湾和HK关系融洽，那是因为你们根本在他们眼里就是贩夫走卒。
自由、独裁、这都是幌子，如果西方真的想贯彻自由，那新加坡是什么？没有独裁，新加坡怎么会有今天？
不要幼稚了，朋友，适当的时候来中国看看吧！不要把国人的纪律性跟奴隶划等号，我们不是奴隶，我们是当今世纪的主角！
西方帝国主义亡我之心不死，而且永远都不会死！这点我们比谁都清楚！

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## Aepsilons

劉天兆 said:


> 其实我建议你有时间来大陆看看，不要被所谓的媒体蒙蔽了双眼。在我现在生存的土地上，正在进行的是全世界史无前例的迅速崛起。庞大且有效的基础设施建设、迅速而有效地惠民政策、极高强度的反腐工作正在进行。
> 如果你认为仅仅是一种虚妄的思想或者一种空泛的主义拯救了中国，那我觉得你才是大错特错。
> 你所了解的中国近代史跟现代史，在我看来是有所偏颇的。
> 首先就自由而言，我的国家是有自由的，为什么这么说，是因为我们可以跟全世界任何一个国家发出不一样的声音。我们不必附和任何人的观点。
> 我们可以在50年代刚刚接管一片疮痍的中国时勇敢的对16个国家的联合军说：滚出我朋友的土地！
> 我们可以在60年代一穷二白的时候勇敢的跟苏联说：滚开我的土地！
> 我们可以这么做，请问你们在那个年代还有哪个国家可以这么做！
> 这是我们国家的自由，让世界华人所骄傲的自由。
> 至于你说的那种自由，我们并不缺，只不过为了国家的发展，我们必须做出牺牲！
> 我们设置贸易壁垒，为的是保护华人企业，我们在两个世纪的时间里面惨遭杀戮跟践踏。我们建国的时候这片土地上什么都没有，我们仅仅几十年从头开始的技术积累，完全无法抗衡西方的技术积淀，完全开放就意味着国家必亡。
> 我们限制言论自由，因为这个时候只有一个声音是中国需要的——如何让中国更加富强！我们要复兴并且回归本来属于我们的位置！过去十七个世纪里面我们都是世界的巅峰，我们要回来！
> 西方世界跟台湾和HK关系融洽，那是因为你们根本在他们眼里就是贩夫走卒。
> 自由、独裁、这都是幌子，如果西方真的想贯彻自由，那新加坡是什么？没有独裁，新加坡怎么会有今天？
> 不要幼稚了，朋友，适当的时候来中国看看吧！不要把国人的纪律性跟奴隶划等号，我们不是奴隶，我们是当今世纪的主角！
> 西方帝国主义亡我之心不死，而且永远都不会死！这点我们比谁都清楚！



Pardon me, please post in English Language, it is Forum Rules. Thank You.

Announcements


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## Kyle Sun

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Pardon me, please post in English Language, it is Forum Rules. Thank You.


HAHA ! Some time English does not has high effectiency, he needs to type hours but Chinese only need a few words.

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## Aepsilons

Kyle Sun said:


> HAHA ! Some time English does not has high effectiency, he needs to type hours but Chinese only need a few words.



If you and I can type in Latin script, instead of Kanji/Hiraga/Katakana, then so can he.

heh.


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## senheiser

Funny how Macau isnt uprising and also more developed than Hong Kong? Macau is one of the richest regions in the entire world despite being poorer in the past, Hong Kong chinese should take example of that.

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## 劉天兆

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Pardon me, please post in English Language, it is Forum Rules. Thank You.
> 
> Announcements


I‘m sorry！ 
My English is not very good
SO I have to speak our Language 
pardon me
thank you for remind me

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## Aepsilons

劉天兆 said:


> I‘m sorry！
> My English is not very good
> SO I have to speak our Language
> pardon me
> thank you for remind me



Thank You ! And your English is perfectly fine.


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## Brainsucker

FairAndUnbiased said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> 
> I think its not that simple. There are Chinese hard conservatives who are extremely anti-CPC and social liberals that are pro-CPC. For example, Okemos, Sahalian and Kolaps are all neocons that want regression back to pure Confucianism and think that the only way to do that is to get rid of the CPC.



I agree. I don't think that the different political view of individual can be considered as traitor like Qin Hui. Because even when you are liberal, or commie, or Islamic Hardliner, or Neocon, you still have your country in your heart. What make you different to each other is that you think that your ideology is the best for your country. Sometime it cause trouble (and big trouble). But I can't consider them as the same as Qin Hui who was basically a pure traitor.

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## Aepsilons

Brainsucker said:


> I agree. I don't think that the different political view of individual can be considered as traitor like Qin Hui. Because even when you are liberal, or commie, or Islamic Hardliner, or Neocon, you still have your country in your heart. What make you different to each other is that you think that your ideology is the best for your country. Sometime it cause trouble (and big trouble). But I can't consider them as the same as Qin Hui who was basically a pure traitor.



I've never heard of Qin Hui until reading this thread. Anyone know any good academic sources on this man?


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## Jlaw

Infra_Man99 said:


> As informed people probably know, the China media exposed more evidence of ties between Hong Kong's protest leaders and US agents. As on now, I am unable to post news article links. I could post YouTube video links. I don't know why this website has this type of a restriction.
> 
> In one case, the US agents tried to secretly work with a Hong Kong protest leader in Macau, China at the Venetian Macao, which is owned by *Las Vegas Sands Corp*. China's surveillance network fortunately monitored this secret activity. The secret plan involved US instructions and material support for the Hong Kong protest leader. In return, the Hong Kong useful idiot would protest against China and protest in favor of change secretly controlled by the US.
> 
> The *Las Vegas Sands Corp.* is owned by Sheldon Adelson. Sheldon Adelson is a Zionist Jew who was accused swindling various business partners and of bribing Chinese officials. Sheldon Adelson legally bribes US government officials, especially those connected to the Republican Party. Sheldon Adelson thoroughly supports Israel's genocide of Palestine.
> 
> As you could see, the Zionist West uses its government bureaus and private businesses to perform secret activities for the detriment of others. At the same time, the Zionist West hypocritically boasts it has the freest and most fair government and businesses. The courageous Snowden already showed the secret ties between US electronics companies, US websites, and US government. The secret ties are used for espionage and covert activities.



Now China is getting a taste of Zionism. I posted before in a thread regarding about Zionist parasites next target is China. I was ridiculed by some Chinese members since i don't have the proof . Mainland Chinese do not know much about these zionist and their agenda other than they are Jews.

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## 劉天兆

Kolaps said:


> You need to practice your english thou.
> 
> You have your change here.
> 
> 
> In Taiwan we also being taught that China/Chinese civilization are ugly.
> 
> Our teacher laugh and say how stupid old Chinese people mentality for refusing Western superior civilization.
> 
> 
> Chinese people of today should have more proud of being Chinese.
> 
> And give Chinese people the best of everything!
> 
> We will restore Confucianism and kick Christian Democracy and Communism out of China!


屬實我的英語不好，因為看到這裡國人很多，我才發言的。很感謝你的發言，我想我寫正體字你會看的舒服些吧。呵呵，畢竟我們看得懂正體字，你們未必看得懂簡體字。

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## nvKyleBrown

TheMatador said:


> We defeated superpowers USA and Soviet Union. We defeated Japan, India, Vietnam and Philippines. Nobody on this planet is as badass as us these days
> 
> View attachment 97070



You know that guy was killed before the end of the movie?

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## Jlaw

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's main focus right in on the Mainland, that's why the US chose to ignite the fire in HK because they cannot infiltrate into the Mainland China right now.
> 
> 
> 
> China didn't make HK poorer, it was those fcking tycoons from HK.
> 
> One of them just fled when he knew China's national security department was coming for him.


In this electronic age, it's not difficult to confiscate his net worth. Make some 麻煩 for his companies, sink his shares...


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## Kolaps

劉天兆 said:


> 屬實我的英語不好，因為看到這裡國人很多，我才發言的。很感謝你的發言，我想我寫正體字你會看的舒服些吧。呵呵，畢竟我們看得懂正體字，你們未必看得懂簡體字。



Simplified Hanzi looks ugly and crippled.

One day it supposed to be returned to traditional one, as education development already spread well and developed.

There's no reason by saying Chinese people unable to learn traditional Hanzi as it too hard to learn, the reality they can.

It's not Hanzi is the problem, but the lack of education development is the problem.

So it will be returned one day.

Crippled Hanzi is not a progress.


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## NiceGuy

Infra_Man99 said:


> It's more like you are masturbating to your own fantasies, and boasting about it.
> 
> Meanwhile, Vietnam is still poisoned by Agent Orange and begging anyone to help them with the SCS disputes. Vietnamese are too dumb to protest for a better government and way too dumb to build a great nation, so they wade across rivers in plastic bags.
> 
> Vietnam's bridge in a bag


We r poor , but No Vn kids die in trash bin like in China.

Back to the topic. The US boss warn China to stop violating 'human rights' in HK or they will face with sanction 

DO u wanna lose ur jobs in Foxconn ??? 


> *White House Shows Support For Aspirations Of Hong Kong People*
> Reuters
> Posted: 09/29/2014 2:11 pm EDT Updated: 09/29/2014 2:59 pm EDT
> 
> WASHINGTON, Sept 29 (Reuters) - The White House is watching democracy protests in Hong Kong closely and supports the "aspirations of the Hong Kong people," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said on Monday.
> 
> "The United States supports universal suffrage in Hong Kong in accordance with the Basic Law and we support the aspirations of the Hong Kong people," said Earnest, who also urged restraint on both sides.


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## Brainsucker

nvKyleBrown said:


> You know that guy was killed before the end of the movie?



LOL


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## Jlaw

Huaren said:


> To bad our central government is standing in the same camp as those hk tycoons because of common interest in maintaining order, but under certain aspect this might be conter productive if we want to build trust with common folks there, so many of them can barely make a living despite the fact of having relatively high income compared with mainland, as example those hongkong locals told me that one persons salary could barely cover the rent of a small run down apartment and how they were all enslaved by the rich, in that sense central government is standing with "slavers" .


Time to put the HK Li's heads on a pole. The two Li families are 光明黨的人 own a quarter of HK.


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## Kolaps

劉天兆 said:


> 其实我建议你有时间来大陆看看，不要被所谓的媒体蒙蔽了双眼。在我现在生存的土地上，正在进行的是全世界史无前例的迅速崛起。庞大且有效的基础设施建设、迅速而有效地惠民政策、极高强度的反腐工作正在进行。
> 如果你认为仅仅是一种虚妄的思想或者一种空泛的主义拯救了中国，那我觉得你才是大错特错。
> 你所了解的中国近代史跟现代史，在我看来是有所偏颇的。
> 首先就自由而言，我的国家是有自由的，为什么这么说，是因为我们可以跟全世界任何一个国家发出不一样的声音。我们不必附和任何人的观点。
> 我们可以在50年代刚刚接管一片疮痍的中国时勇敢的对16个国家的联合军说：滚出我朋友的土地！
> 我们可以在60年代一穷二白的时候勇敢的跟苏联说：滚开我的土地！
> 我们可以这么做，请问你们在那个年代还有哪个国家可以这么做！
> 这是我们国家的自由，让世界华人所骄傲的自由。
> 至于你说的那种自由，我们并不缺，只不过为了国家的发展，我们必须做出牺牲！
> 我们设置贸易壁垒，为的是保护华人企业，我们在两个世纪的时间里面惨遭杀戮跟践踏。我们建国的时候这片土地上什么都没有，我们仅仅几十年从头开始的技术积累，完全无法抗衡西方的技术积淀，完全开放就意味着国家必亡。
> 我们限制言论自由，因为这个时候只有一个声音是中国需要的——如何让中国更加富强！我们要复兴并且回归本来属于我们的位置！过去十七个世纪里面我们都是世界的巅峰，我们要回来！
> 西方世界跟台湾和HK关系融洽，那是因为你们根本在他们眼里就是贩夫走卒。
> 自由、独裁、这都是幌子，如果西方真的想贯彻自由，那新加坡是什么？没有独裁，新加坡怎么会有今天？
> 不要幼稚了，朋友，适当的时候来中国看看吧！不要把国人的纪律性跟奴隶划等号，我们不是奴隶，我们是当今世纪的主角！
> 西方帝国主义亡我之心不死，而且永远都不会死！这点我们比谁都清楚！



We'll see then.


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## andy_hujian

NiceGuy said:


> The only way to solve the problem is to kill and kick out all US's puppet in HK, like what VNese did to those US's puppet before 1975.
> 
> But China will have to face wt hard sanction from US, and they r too scared to face wt sanction now , so, problem will remain until China Govt. collapse like Soviet union.



US and China have already married. Sanction China doesn't benefit U.S. at all.


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## 劉天兆

Kolaps said:


> Simplified Hanzi looks ugly and crippled.
> 
> One day it supposed to be returned to traditional one, as education development already spread well and developed.
> 
> There's no reason by saying Chinese people unable to learn traditional Hanzi as it too hard to learn, the reality they can.
> 
> It's not Hanzi is the problem, but the lack of education development is the problem.
> 
> So it will be returned one day.
> 
> Crippled Hanzi is not a progress.


事情沒你想的那麼糟，我們的是繁簡並存的。簡體字自然有他的優點，雖然不比正體字好看，但是我們一些場景下還是會使用正體字的。簡體字的出現是迎合了當時時代的需求，不要把它與政治牽涉太深。
利於書寫，便於記錄，更便于迅速增加識字率。
正體字是很正統，但正統之下亦有弊端。繁簡之爭其實一直都有，我很同意你的觀點，應當統一兩岸的書寫方式。
折中的辦法是我們增加古文與繁體字的教受，但是不徹底廢掉簡體字。
因為你要知道我們寫正體字有多頭痛，至少要增加一倍的書寫時間。
其實我們大可不必太糾結於此，兩岸的學者們會給我們找出一條平衡的路的，我對他們很有信心。
中華文化，異于深淺，台灣與大陸皆為正統，過分執迷，也只是與自己較勁，沒有出路的。
中華文化的核心就是——包容！

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## andy_hujian

NiceGuy said:


> And u will get a hard sanction from US when breaking 'human rights' in HK, ur economy will collapse



Human rights are being broken since 1949, like Vietnam. And nothing happened.

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## Jlaw

劉天兆 said:


> 屬實我的英語不好，因為看到這裡國人很多，我才發言的。很感謝你的發言，我想我寫正體字你會看的舒服些吧。呵呵，畢竟我們看得懂正體字，你們未必看得懂簡體字。


你是新來的。不要浪費時間將 kolaps. 他不是中國人. 一 個中字都唔識寫. 他總是這樣回答英語.

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## 劉天兆

Jlaw said:


> 你是新來的。不要浪費時間將 kolaps. 他不是中國人. 一 個中字都唔識寫. 他總是這樣回答英語.


無所謂啦，我也只是上班間隙小莫時間而已。話說這到底是不是巴基斯坦的論壇，怎麼全是一群華人發言？老衲很凌亂的說

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## Akasa

Beidou2020 said:


> The CPC should arrest these US goons and sentence them like that Uighur separatist for inciting separatism in China.
> 
> Unless China takes a very hardline with this, the foreigners will try it again and again.
> 
> Close all US consulates in Hong Kong and arrest the individuals involved in separatism. If foreigners think they can incite separatism in China and get away with it, then the entire separatism law will become useless.
> 
> I'm waiting for a response from the CPC.



Nah-ah, my friend Beidou. There is something called diplomatic immunity that exempts foreign diplomats from all of the local laws; just read up on the political firestorm that came of Raymond Allen Davis' incident in Pakistan.


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## rcrmj

劉天兆 said:


> 無所謂啦，我也只是上班間隙小莫時間而已。話說這到底是不是巴基斯坦的論壇，怎麼全是一群華人發言？老衲很凌亂的說


巴铁的论坛没错，但是你都是看关于中国的贴子，所以都是华人多了，时不时的会有几个脑残猴子出来的

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## NiceGuy

andy_hujian said:


> US and China have already married. Sanction China doesn't benefit U.S. at all.


The boss always need hard working slave, but when slave become lazy and bad, the boss have no choice, but to teach that bad slave a hard lesson.

So, stop violating 'human rights' in HK or u will lose ur jobs in Foxconn


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## Infra_Man99

NiceGuy said:


> We r poor , but No Vn kids die in trash bin like in China.
> 
> Back to the topic. The US boss warn China to stop violating 'human rights' in HK or they will face with sanction
> 
> DO u wanna lose ur jobs in Foxconn ???



Vietnam's useful idiots die in the dirt and are eaten by rats and mice.

Obama Administration is a proven failure despite the support of liberal fanatics. It's hot air and minimal substance.

You don't have a job to begin with, unless you count floating around in plastic bags, because you are too dumb to build a bridge or boat.

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## 劉天兆

rcrmj said:


> 巴铁的论坛没错，但是你都是看关于中国的贴子，所以都是华人多了，时不时的会有几个脑残猴子出来的


我這樣發漢字回帖問題大不大？如果問題很大，那我就不回了。從小英語就是我的命門，現在想多看些提高下。如果要是可以，我希望短時間內先用漢子回帖，看懂的就看懂了。看不懂的怨他們不識方塊字吧。
畢竟我能看英文，想把自己的意思表達清楚，對我來說有些困難。

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## TaiShang

*HK police admits tear gas use, CCTV*

Hong Kong police have admitted that they had used ‪#‎teargas‬ shells while dealing with protesters from the ‪#‎OccupyCentral‬ movement on Sunday.

Addressing the press on Monday, Cheung Tak-keung, Hong Kong’s Assistant Commissioner of Police, said that they had no alternative but to use “minimum force” in order to prevent further conflicts with the protesters.

He said that the police had used tear gas and pepper spray on Sunday after some protesters used violence to breach the police lines.

*According to a Xinhua report, the police had used 87 tear gas shells to scatter the crowds*.
*
Cheung said the police have maintained restraint and upheld professionalism while enforcing the law.*

He also added that the police respects the citizens’ right to use peaceful, rational and legal means to protest, but will have no tolerance for offenders.

Meanwhile, protests in the city continued on Monday, with an immediate impact being visible on the stock markets.

‪#‎HK‬’s benchmark ‪#‎HangSeng‬ Index tumbled through the day, recovering marginally post lunch to close on Monday at 23229.21, down 449.20 points or 1.90%.

The property segment was the hardest hit, shedding 3.38%. Utilities and finance shares also performed badly, falling 2.03% and 1.92%, respectively.







Picture source: police.gov.hk

***

Professionalism right there. Compare this with the use of force by the US police in various peaceful demonstrations during the heydays of the Occupy movement in the country.

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## NiceGuy

Infra_Man99 said:


> Vietnam's useful idiots die in the dirt and are eaten by rats and mice.
> 
> Obama Administration is a proven failure despite the support of liberal fanatics. It's hot air and minimal substance.
> 
> You don't have a job to begin with, unless you count floating around in plastic bags, because you are too dumb to build a bridge or boat.


I dont know where Obama Administration is a proven failure, but in HK, US successfully make a big mess to China, and u Chinese dare not do anything to stop the protest but to come here and talk like idiot.


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## AgentOrange

Infra_Man99 said:


> Vietnam's useful idiots die in the dirt and are eaten by rats and mice.
> 
> Obama Administration is a proven failure despite the support of liberal fanatics. It's hot air and minimal substance.
> 
> You don't have a job to begin with, unless you count floating around in plastic bags, because you are too dumb to build a bridge or boat.



Vietnam's infant mortality rate is double that of China. So I don't know what he's gloating about. Vietnam is worse than China in every quantifiable measure, usually by an order of magnitude. When Vietnamese kids die of malnourishment, they do die in trash bins because the nation of Vietnam is one giant trash bin. 



NiceGuy said:


> I dont know where Obama Administration is a proven failure, but in HK, US successfully make a big mess to China, and u Chinese dare not do anything to stop the protest but to come here and talk like idiot.



In Hong Kong, protest and public gatherings are legal and are indicative of a vibrant political culture. Just like in Vietnam , burning down factories and murdering innocent workers is legal and indicative of a nation of apes. China allows Hong Kong to handle it's own business. One country, two systems, after all. Similarly, China allows Vietnam to pick up its dead sailors after China takes Johnson reef from her. See the similarities and differences?

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## Infra_Man99

NiceGuy said:


> I dont know where Obama Administration is a proven failure, but in HK, US successfully make a big mess to China, and u Chinese dare not do anything to stop the protest but to come here and talk like idiot.



Obamacare is a failure.
Obama's war on terror is a failure.
Obama's economic policies are a failure.
Obama's Hispanic immigration policies are a failure.
Obama's healthy school lunches program is a failure.
Obama's plan to improve US education performances is a failure.
Obama's plan to control Libya, Iran, and Ukraine are bloody failures.
Obama's plan to control Hong Kong's useful idiots has been exposed and starting to fail.

Obama is a grand symbol of the failure of liberalism. You're a failure at trolling.

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## NiceGuy

AgentOrange said:


> Vietnam's infant mortality rate is double that of China. So I don't know what he's gloating about. Vietnam is worse than China in every quantifiable measure, usually by an order of magnitude. When Vietnamese kids die of malnourishment, they do die in trash bins because the nation of Vietnam is one giant trash bin.
> 
> 
> 
> In Hong Kong, protest and public gatherings are legal and are indicative of a vibrant political culture. Just like in Vietnam , burning down factories and murdering innocent workers is legal and indicative of a nation of apes.


The infant die for many reasons such as die of sickness, their parents dont want to have those babies etc. But no VN kids starve to death in dirty trash bin like in 'rich' China 

Vn workers burning down factories coz they hate the foreigners boss and illegal worker, and it bring No risk of separation . But in HK, they got US money to make a mess to China govt., and that kind of protest could make China collapse like Soviet union



Infra_Man99 said:


> Obama's plan to control Hong Kong's useful idiots has been exposed and starting to fail.
> 
> Obama is a grand symbol of the failure of liberalism. You're a failure at trolling.


No, we dont see any sign of failure in HK yet


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## FairAndUnbiased

Kolaps said:


> Simplified Hanzi looks ugly and crippled.
> 
> One day it supposed to be returned to traditional one, as education development already spread well and developed.
> 
> There's no reason by saying Chinese people unable to learn traditional Hanzi as it too hard to learn, the reality they can.
> 
> It's not Hanzi is the problem, but the lack of education development is the problem.
> 
> So it will be returned one day.
> 
> Crippled Hanzi is not a progress.



复杂的东西不一定美。相反，越复杂的东西越容易看起来做作，繁乱和虚伪。就如山水画一样，字的美在于用最简约的方法传达最多的信息。东方人的审美观强调的就是委婉的美，而不是过度华丽的繁杂。因此，简体字可以说是东方美的最高体现 - 简约，但不简单。相反，所谓的“繁体美”只不过是西方洗脑的一种体现。

再说，语言的魅力并不在于字体，而在于字的使用。即便繁体字真的如你所说的那么漂亮那又如何呢？使用繁体字的人连基本的语法都搞错，连自己的名字都改成英文名字，还有什么资格说自己有多“正宗”？

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## AgentOrange

NiceGuy said:


> The infant die for many reasons such as die of sickness, their parents dont want to have those babies etc. But no VN kids starve to death in dirty trash bin like in 'rich' China
> 
> Vn workers burning down factories coz they hate the foreigners boss and illegal worker, and it bring No risk of separation . But in HK, they got US money to make a mess to China govt., and that kind of protest could make China collapse like Soviet union
> 
> 
> No, we dont see any sign of failure in HK yet



Plenty of Vietnamese kids die in trash bins. More than China. Only difference is that Vietnam can't afford trash bins so Vietnamese kids die in dirt holes after being mauled by wild dogs. And plenty of Vietnamese kids starve to death. That's why child malnourishment is so bad in Vietnam and why Vietnamese children are the shortest in *all* of Asia. They have so little food to eat and their growth is so stunted, we might as well start calling Vietnam "The Shire" after that town of Hobbits in Lord of the Rings. 

Vietnamese workers burn down factories because they're stupid. They can't tell the difference between Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, or Germans so they start burning down everything. Like black people in Ferguson, Missouri. The result is that Vietnam's already crappy living standards will get even worse as foreign investment dries up and the next generation of Vietnamese people will be even shorter and less intelligent than this generation.

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## 劉天兆

American provoke dispute everywhere

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## NiceGuy

AgentOrange said:


> Plenty of Vietnamese kids die in trash bins. More than China. Only difference is that Vietnam can't afford trash bins so Vietnamese kids die in dirt holes after being mauled by wild dogs. And plenty of Vietnamese kids starve to death. That's why child malnourishment is so bad in Vietnam and why Vietnamese children are the shortest in *all* of Asia. They have so little food to eat and their growth is so stunted, we might as well start calling Vietnam "The Shire" after that town of Hobbits in Lord of the Rings.
> 
> Vietnamese workers burn down factories because they're stupid. They can't tell the difference between Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, or Germans so they start burning down everything. Like black people in Ferguson, Missouri. The result is that Vietnam's already crappy living standards will get even worse as foreign investment dries up and the next generation of Vietnamese people will be even shorter and less intelligent than this generation.


High malnourishment just bcz we dont have enough milk for children (rice, fish dont provide enough nultrition), not bcz we dont have enough safe food and warm shelter so the kids have to starve to death in dirty trash like in China.

I repeat : The protest in VN bring no harm to the territorial integrity of VN, when China will collapse like Soviet due to HK protest spreading every where


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## 劉天兆

FairAndUnbiased said:


> 复杂的东西不一定美。相反，越复杂的东西越容易看起来做作，繁乱和虚伪。就如山水画一样，字的美在于用最简约的方法传达最多的信息。东方人的审美观强调就是委婉的美，而不是过度华丽的繁杂。因此，简体字可以说是东方美的最高体现 - 简约，但不简单。相反，所谓的“繁体美”只不过是西方洗脑的一种体现。
> 
> 再说，语言的魅力并不在于字体，而在于字的使用。即便繁体字真的如你所说的那么漂亮那又如何呢？使用繁体字的人连基本的语法都搞错，连自己的名字都改成英文名字，还有什么资格说自己有多“正宗”？


我部分同意你的觀點，不過我們沒必要去管他們太多，畢竟台灣，香港，新加坡還有日本的相當大的一部分人已經進化成了’香蕉人‘。在黃種人面前趾高氣揚，在白人面前低聲下氣，畢竟黃皮白芯嘛。他們願得如此，便由他們去吧。
說到文字上，事實上是簡繁各有各的優點，但沒必要太較真。比如我們用簡體，記錄的速度跟得上慢些講話的教授，他們根本沒得體會。
至於文化上嘛，不是我們不正統，而是蔣中正搬空了我們的故宮跟國庫還有高知分子，再拿去跟別人炫耀。我有親眼在故宮看過，真心希望有朝一日能讓那些國寶重歸故地。
不要在乎他們怎麼說，我們就是中華正統！因為中華的正統，是人，不是物！

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## AgentOrange

NiceGuy said:


> High malnourishment just bcz we dont have enough milk for children (rice, fish dont provide enough nultrition), not bcz we dont have enough safe food and warm shelter so the kids have to starve to death like in China.
> 
> I repeat : The protest in VN bring no harm to the territorial integrity of VN, when China will collapse like Soviet due to HK protest spreading every where



Your kids are starving, their growth is stunted, and they suffer from low IQs because of malnourishment. You admit it yourself. So not only do you not have enough safe food, you don't have enough of any food. Period. And you're trying to compare to China where the average IQ is much higher than Vietnam, where each generation is taller than the last, where infant mortality is half as much as Vietnam?

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## Jlaw

AgentOrange said:


> Plenty of Vietnamese kids die in trash bins. More than China. Only difference is that Vietnam can't afford trash bins so Vietnamese kids die in dirt holes after being mauled by wild dogs. And plenty of Vietnamese kids starve to death. That's why child malnourishment is so bad in Vietnam and why Vietnamese children are the shortest in *all* of Asia. They have so little food to eat and their growth is so stunted, we might as well start calling Vietnam "The Shire" after that town of Hobbits in Lord of the Rings.
> 
> Vietnamese workers burn down factories because they're stupid. They can't tell the difference between Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, or Germans so they start burning down everything. Like black people in Ferguson, Missouri. The result is that Vietnam's already crappy living standards will get even worse as foreign investment dries up and the next generation of Vietnamese people will be even shorter and less intelligent than this generation.


Vietnam is so useless. Too many NiceGuy over there. 

Vietnam rolls out red carpet for foreign talents | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

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## Brainsucker

Please SPARE ME and the other friends who can read Hanzi here from opening google translation everytime we need to read your posts guys.

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## AgentOrange

Jlaw said:


> Vietnam is so useless. Too many NiceGuy over there.
> 
> Vietnam rolls out red carpet for foreign talents | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily



I don't think they can help it. Child malnourishment affects brain development. Maybe a lot of the niceguys in Vietnam didn't get enough food as kids. 

"Meanwhile, with 2.2 million children suffering from stunted growth, Vietnam is now among the top 20 countries with the highest rates of stunted growth because of malnutrition, Dr. Le Thi Hop, president of the Vietnam Nutrition Association, said."

Vietnam has 2.2mn malnourished children

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## Akasa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I don't think it would serve Hong Kongers , in general, if they were to adopt a radical pro-independence rant. They are too far integrated into the PRC now since the British reverted control in 1997. No, I think that the Beijing Government should listen to some issues brought about by the protest movement , and compromise. It should also be emphasized upon that it is to the best interest for all Hong Kong and Hong Kongers to remain part of China. Either way, China has to listen to the demands of these groups, if it is to realize peaceful resolution.
> 
> Best of luck on that.



It's highly doubtful that the recent protests in Hong Kong are ones for so-called independence. HongKongers know better than anyone else that a clean break from the mainland in terms of business or political ties would bring about far more severe consequences for their economic wellbeing and possibly political status quo. This movement isn't about autonomy or self-governance either as there hasn't been any major protests like this one under Britain's rule and Hong Kong is the Chinese city with the greatest power to itself.

Instead, the quagmire on Hong Kong's political stage is likely a precipitate of the clash between two counteracting forces: the desire of Hong Kong citizens to be free of Beijing's influence and the decreasing role that Hong Kong has on China's political and economic realms. Hong Kong citizens have, perhaps understandably, a morbid fear of being affected by Beijing's political and socioeconomical clout. This is quite readily catalyzed by frequent cases of intrusion and unlawful activities conducted by mainlanders and the general discontent extended against Chinese mainlanders. However, both sides of the dispute know that Hong Kong is unlikely ever going to be completely autonomous or self-sufficient without a third party. Hence, protests are in a way the most effective method to get support from international observers without being brushed aside for being illegitimate. The fact that the protesters have been relatively "violent" in their work have attested to their increasing desperation. On the other hand, China sees Hong Kong as less of a burden and more of a side issue, and hence the rather muted response from Chinese officials. Mix the two together, and out comes an increasingly-violent protest that is expansive on the surface but ultimately feeble at the core. Of course, that doesn't preclude the fact that Beijing should do its best to at least hold talks with the organizers of the movement.

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## NiceGuy

AgentOrange said:


> Your kids are starving, their growth is stunted, and they suffer from low IQs because of malnourishment. You admit it yourself. So not only do you not have enough safe food, you don't have enough of any food. Period. And you're trying to compare to China where the average IQ is much higher than Vietnam, where each generation is taller than the last, where infant mortality is half as much as Vietnam?


They may lack of food bcz of many reasons such as suffering floor, land slide etc so our Gov.t cant provide enough rice, fish for them at that time, but still No VN kids starve to death in dirty Trash like in China (U can not find any link say that VN kids starve to death in trash bin).

China kids not only face wt starving, but also face wt the risk of economy collapse now, thats why handsome HK kid like Joshua Wong must stand up and protest now 








AgentOrange said:


> I don't think they can help it. Child malnourishment affects brain development. Maybe a lot of the niceguys in Vietnam didn't get enough food as kids.
> 
> "Meanwhile, with 2.2 million children suffering from stunted growth, Vietnam is now among the top 20 countries with the highest rates of stunted growth because of malnutrition, Dr. Le Thi Hop, president of the Vietnam Nutrition Association, said."
> 
> Vietnam has 2.2mn malnourished children


But they r still alive, no kids starving to death in Trash bin in VN like in China


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## ChineseTiger1986

FairAndUnbiased said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> 
> I think its not that simple. There are Chinese hard conservatives who are extremely anti-CPC and social liberals that are pro-CPC. For example, Okemos, Sahalian and Kolaps are all neocons that want regression back to pure Confucianism and think that the only way to do that is to get rid of the CPC.



These guys are KMT supporters who worship the Christianity.

However, Sahalian is the most Confucianist supporter, the rest two are just pure CPC haters.



Kolaps said:


> Simplified Hanzi looks ugly and crippled.
> 
> One day it supposed to be returned to traditional one, as education development already spread well and developed.
> 
> There's no reason by saying Chinese people unable to learn traditional Hanzi as it too hard to learn, the reality they can.
> 
> It's not Hanzi is the problem, but the lack of education development is the problem.
> 
> So it will be returned one day.
> 
> Crippled Hanzi is not a progress.



The simplified Hanzi was created way before CPC, so don't hate it because PRC is now using it.

BTW, I hate to write the traditional Hanzi, it looks so outdated.


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## Akasa

jha said:


> No need to apply any harsh measures. Chinese Govt. is handling pretty well. Its just a game of nerves. People will eventually get tired of sitting there and sloganeering. A violent reaction on government part will close this thing sooner but will also result in bad PR. I dont think there is any need to resort to that for now.



Violent government action will give the protest a more legitimate cause and undoubtedly swing public and international opinion against China, which will impede the interests of those truly seeking to mediate a deal between the two governments; besides, such a bold and drastic move is quite unnecessary considering how small Hong Kong has become as a player in China's collective economics and politics.

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## rcrmj

NiceGuy said:


> The boss always need hard working slave, but when slave become lazy and bad, the boss have no choice, but to teach that bad slave a hard lesson.
> 
> So, stop violating 'human rights' in HK or u will lose ur jobs in Foxconn


do vietmonkeys have any rights at all in your vietcong controlled and ravaged Zoo?


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## NiceGuy

jha said:


> No need to apply any harsh measures. Chinese Govt. is handling pretty well. Its just a game of nerves. People will eventually get tired of sitting there and sloganeering. A violent reaction on government part will close this thing sooner but will also result in bad PR. I dont think there is any need to resort to that for now.


Bro, Kids like Joshua Wong never feel tired coz they dont have wife-kid to take care of, remember Tienanmen protest made by students ??

we should Never underestimate those kids.

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## senheiser

*Four Russian banks plan to issue dim sum bonds in Hong Kong*

Four Russian lenders plan dim sum bonds in Hong Kong as Western sanctions on Moscow accelerate move away from dollar settlements
Toh Han Shihhanshih.toh@scmp.com


PUBLISHED : Monday, 29 September, 2014, 3:58am
UPDATED : Monday, 29 September, 2014, 3:58am





Russia is the fourth-largest trading partner of China. Photo: AFP

At least four Russian banks will issue up to 2.5 billion yuan (HK$3.1 billion) in dim sum bonds in Hong Kong by early next year, as Western sanctions against Russia accelerate a switch by the country's lenders from US dollars to the mainland and Russian currencies.

International financing has tightened for Russian banks, after the US government announced on September 12 restrictions on six Russian state-owned banks including the largest, Sberbank.

Three Russian banks plan to issue 2 billion yuan of dim sum bonds in Hong Kong early next year, said Elena Trofimova, chief executive of International Bridge for Cooperation, Development & Investments (ICDI), declining to name them. A fourth, RosinterBank, has announced similar plans.

ICDI, a Russian partly state-owned firm that connects Russian companies with international firms, is advising the banks on their Hong Kong bond issue.

RosinterBank, the first mid-sized Russian lender to issue dim sum bonds, hopes to make a private placement worth 500 million yuan by early November, said its deputy chairman Konstantin Vorobiev.

Although the 500 million yuan bond was not a large amount, it was part of RosinterBank's strategy to explore Asia's financial markets, Vorobiev added. "Other Russian banks are keeping an eye on this deal. If this deal is successful … it will become a trend."

RosinterBank also hopes to list in Hong Kong in three years and raise possibly US$100 million, Vorobiev added.

More than 90 per cent of the settlement between Russia and China is conducted in US dollars, but in five to 10 years, most of it will be in yuan and roubles, Vorobiev predicted.

This could mean US$100 billion of US dollar transactions may switch to the two currencies in the coming years, given that Xinhua reported trade between China and Russia is expected to rise to US$100 billion this year from US$88.16 billion in 2012.

As China and Russia switched from the US dollar to the yuan and rouble, the US dollar would depreciate, Vorobiev said. "This is why we urge our clients to move from US dollars to RMB."

Most of RosinterBank's clients are Russian companies, some of which do business in China.

This currency shift will be globally significant only if the settlement between Russia and China is mostly in yuan and it becomes convertible, said Charles Dumas, chairman of Lombard Street Research, a London economic research firm.

Xu Chenggang, an economics professor at Hong Kong University, said the shift from US dollars to the rouble and the yuan will help the bilateral trade between China and Russia.

"The major impact of this bilateral trade is to reduce the effect of the economic sanctions against Russia. Other than this, its general impact to world trade will be limited," Xu said.

China is Russia's top trade partner while Russia is the fourth-largest trading partner of China, and economic ties between both nations "will become closer", Vorobiev said.

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## 劉天兆

Brainsucker said:


> Please SPARE ME and the other friends who can read Hanzi here from opening google translation everytime we need to read your posts guys.


I'm sorry, because Chinese than English fast and effective to use too much, so I can't help but want to speak in Chinese. I hope you can understand.



NiceGuy said:


> People r watching China going to collapse due to student protest again like in Tienanmen square. So pls dont drag VN in. We wont collapse like u


Strange why do you like to take the tiananmen incident and the American agents to provide some students weapon, let they burned alive the people's liberation army soldiers, why your media did not report? Falun gong destroyed many Chinese families you why not reported in the press? Tibetan compatriots get preferential policies in xinjiang with far more than the Chinese han nationality, why didn't you report?

In trying to protect national culture language, China set up the many terms help each nation's culture alive, why didn't you report? China only limit we han Chinese, family planning, ethnic minorities have more reward, why do you haven't reported? If not, welcome to China! Please don't speculating before the facts! Thank you very much!

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## senheiser

mike2000 said:


> Lool you always win at the end? What's that suppose to mean bro? How many battles/things have you won at the end? Lol
> The ability of the U. S to be able to influence/finance/instigate protests globally against its rivals, is a show of just how powerful and influential it is. In fact China (and to a lesser extent even Russia ) ar still lplaying a defensive game, not because they want but because they are very weak and vulnerable unlike what many of us think.
> In fact even Iran is more /less more successful in thwarting any foreign influence in its country than China /Russia. There are no xijiang like regular terrorists bombings /stabbings etc in Iran, nor are there are any Chechen like terrorists groups roaming the country commiting suicide bombings /fighting the government etc.
> 
> As far as China and Russia can't even handle their internal issues /problems (which I must confess our governments /intelligence agencies have a hand in.. ), then how do they even think they can even challenge us(west/U.S)? Lol
> 
> As for the protests and U. S/U.K involvement, of course I don't find anything wrong in that. As I said any established powers will always try and undermine any upcoming one, irregardless of the country. So no surprise in that, only the naive /stupid who don't understand geo politis will find it immoral /illegal /hegemoistic.  politics is not a fairy tale and never will be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lool Even if we did financed the protests , so what? lol this is the law of the jungle, if you can't survive /retaliate then stay silent and hide




comes from the country that lost almost 40% of its territory, you had to manipulate the vote results in order to win the scotland referendum. The UK will be very easy in the coming years to destabilize. North Ireland wont be forever separated as borders and EU integration will water down these barriers and scotland was your save place but just in a decade you got a separation movement from no where which also wont go away while argentinia is still grooming for your falkland islands.

UK is now always near collapsing, you used to project power but now your irrelevant and collapsing any moment. Of course your big bro America will do the job but will he make it for your interrests there? haha keep dreaming

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## nvKyleBrown

SinoSoldier said:


> Nah-ah, my friend Beidou. There is something called diplomatic immunity that exempts foreign diplomats from all of the local laws; just read up on the political firestorm that came of Raymond Allen Davis' incident in Pakistan.



Diplomatic immunity doesn't stop you from ejecting people you don't want. You can't throw them in jail, but you can send them home.


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## Beidou2020

mike2000 said:


> Lool you always win at the end? What's that suppose to mean bro? How many battles/things have you won at the end? Lol
> The ability of the U. S to be able to influence/finance/instigate protests globally against its rivals, is a show of just how powerful and influential it is. In fact China (and to a lesser extent even Russia ) ar still lplaying a defensive game, not because they want but because they are very weak and vulnerable unlike what many of us think.
> In fact even Iran is more /less more successful in thwarting any foreign influence in its country than China /Russia. There are no xijiang like regular terrorists bombings /stabbings etc in Iran, nor are there are any Chechen like terrorists groups roaming the country commiting suicide bombings /fighting the government etc.
> 
> As far as China and Russia can't even handle their internal issues /problems (which I must confess our governments /intelligence agencies have a hand in.. ), then how do they even think they can even challenge us(west/U.S)? Lol
> 
> As for the protests and U. S/U.K involvement, of course I don't find anything wrong in that. As I said any established powers will always try and undermine any upcoming one, irregardless of the country. So no surprise in that, only the naive /stupid who don't understand geo politis will find it immoral /illegal /hegemoistic.  politics is not a fairy tale and never will be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lool Even if we did financed the protests , so what? lol this is the law of the jungle, if you can't survive /retaliate then stay silent and hide



After the protests die down, the Chinese government will bring the hammer down in ruthless and uncompromising fashion on all the protesters and its foreign financiers which include foreign NGO's, USAID, foreign media, foreign religious groups, foreign academics and foreign embassies and consulates.

This protest was the excuse China needed to shut down the foreign financiers. Just like the Snowden revelations was the excuse China needed to dismantle the spine of foreign tech companies in China which is currently underway.

The harder you push against the CPC, the more ruthless response will be. Hong Kong will lose pretty much all of its freedoms after this protest movement ends. 

China will do what it wants, when it wants in Chinese territory.

The Communist Party of China is judge, jury and executioner.

End of story! 



SinoSoldier said:


> Nah-ah, my friend Beidou. There is something called diplomatic immunity that exempts foreign diplomats from all of the local laws; just read up on the political firestorm that came of Raymond Allen Davis' incident in Pakistan.



China can always sign a law that says any foreign diplomats that are a threat to China's national security will lose diplomatic immunity and will face prison time or execution under Chinese law.

China being a powerful country can do whatever it wants, when it wants. It's one of the privileges of being a big and powerful country.

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## Huan

*I have these concerns that I like to address with serious curiosity:

1. I was wondering what are the long-term consequences if the Hong Kong protesters keep locking down the city for another couple of weeks or so?

2. If these "Hong Kongers" or Hong Kongese" protesters completely choose their own city leaders as they demanded without consent from Beijing, I speculate that these new independent leaders would secretly work on a way to make Hong Kong more separated from Beijing and not closer by 2047. In other words, with each new open election in Hong Kong after 2017, a new or incumbent leader would continue to transition Hong Kong away from mainland China during each office term, away from Beijing because these elected leaders do not answer to Beijing. I suspect these are the ulterior motives of the protesters in a desperate attempt to save their "democracy" long enough after 2047. Thus, they will try to make Hong Kong further away and not closer to being absorbed by the mainland between now and 2047.*

*What are your thoughts?*

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## Beidou2020

Tear gas is a pretty old method.

I've heard US or Israel using stink technology to give an unbearable smell.
I've heard of noise technology where they can put out incredible deafening noises.
I've heard of electric shock technology that gives burning sensations that burns your organs.

China needs to update its technology.


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## Aepsilons

Hoping for a speedy resolution to this unfortunate situation.


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## Beidou2020

The following need to be kicked out of Mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau:
1) USAID.
2) foreign NGO's.
3) foreign media and all their journalists.
4) foreign religious groups.
5) foreign academics and lawyers that support anti-China activities.
6) foreign companies that engage in anti-China activities.

And severe restrictions must be placed on foreign embassy and consulate personnel.

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## Beidou2020

Hu Songshan said:


> NGOs need to be kicked out, HK police is more than enough to handle this.



The following need to be kicked out PERMANENTLY:
1) USAID.
2) foreign NGO's.
3) foreign media and all their journalists.
4) foreign religious groups.
5) foreign academics and lawyers that support anti-China activities.

And severe restrictions must be placed on foreign embassy and consulate personnel.

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## Aepsilons

I'd like to hear a more academic , pragmatic answer from some of our well known Chinese members. 

@SinoSoldier , @Chinese-Dragon , @Genesis , @Raphael , @TaiShang , @sahaliyan , @Okemos , @ChineseTiger1986


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## Kolaps

1. The protest is already over. Although HK get a bit of recession during the day.

2. Yup! US is democracy. And democracy is coming to HK. Democracy will rule HK, and Beijing need to ask them for permission for HK matter. Everyone know it.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> I'd like to hear a more academic , pragmatic answer from some of our well known Chinese members.
> 
> @SinoSoldier , @Chinese-Dragon , @Genesis , @Raphael , @TaiShang , @sahaliyan , @Okemos , @ChineseTiger1986



You didn't mention about me?

All you mentioned above are Communist.

Decedent of Russian.



Beidou2020 said:


> The following need to be kicked out of Mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau:
> 1) USAID.
> 2) foreign NGO's.
> 3) foreign media and all their journalists.
> 4) foreign religious groups.
> 5) foreign academics and lawyers that support anti-China activities.
> 
> And severe restrictions must be placed on foreign embassy and consulate personnel.



More Talk Less Action! = CCP!

You can talk about it, but it does nothing to the reality.

Frustrating...


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## Aepsilons

Kolaps said:


> 1. The protest is already over. Although HK get a bit of recession during the day.
> 
> 2. Yup! US is democracy. And democracy is coming to HK. Democracy will rule HK, and Beijing need to ask them for permission for HK matter. Everyone know it.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't mention about me?
> 
> All you mentioned above are Communist.
> 
> Decedent of Russian.




That was my fault for forgetting, accept my sincere apologies. 

@Kolaps

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## Genesis

1. It's HK not Beijing, China will be fine, would HK? See we can pay the bills just fine, but HK people actually live there, with morgages and stuff, 2 weeks in the other 6.9 million people would kill them if they have to, to continue work and get their pay check to feed their families.

It's also why all those thinking this could be 89, needs a reality check, Brits didn't care when India rioted, neither will we.

When they mention military vehicles spotted, I must say that is just stupid, it's spotted all the time, a brigade is in there.

2. They can do what they wish even if we do bend I see two things.

One, the elite business, political, and scientific minds would want to extent their reach into China, for we can offer them far better than any other. Current WHO is HKer, why did she get elected? Scientifically, we have 2 cities now that far exceeds HK GDP, and another 5-7 will do so within 2020. Eastern coastal PROVINCES, will reach more than half of their per capital and become developed within the next 10 years, this would almost certainly mean more business opportunities for HKers, and more access to funding for technology and more access, Chinese space program is really only available to Chinese, now who we consider Chinese is another matter, but not in China sure as hell isn't.

We also have to keep in mind these people are the pillars of any society like it or not, they won't approve of separating from China.


Now on the off chance you are right, we are working extra hard at our economy and military. By then our influence would be more not less, so, it's not really up to them, like Lincoln said to Davis, independence? Up yours.

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## Beidou2020

So much for all those Western goons that were laughing at Russia saying Russian banks and companies won't be able to finance themselves because of being shut out of Western bond and equity markets and denied loans from Western banks.

Russian banks and companies can issue renminbi-denominated bonds and equity in the offshore renminbi market in Hong Kong and eventually the onshore renminbi market in Shanghai.

Chinese banks are starting to lend renminbi-denominated loans to Russian companies.

Add to that more and more Russia-China trade and investment will be settled using the renminbi and ruble using the direct trading of both currencies already taking place in the MICEX in Moscow.

Russia is finding an alternate route in trade, investment, financing and technology which makes Western sanctions less effective.

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## Viet

I see little rooms for compromise between the demand of street protesters (backed by majority of the HK people) and Chinese leadership in Beijing. too much is at stake, for both sides. soon Xi Jinping and the hardliners will lose patience and send PLA tanks into HK.

that is indeed the endgame.


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## TaiShang

1. I guess no long-term consequences if you mean "political" consequences. Economically, as has been already mentioned by several knowledgeable members, the city has already started to felt the economic consequences of the lock-down. Now how that would help with the cause of protesters, I beg to know, given that Hong Kong is financially (more or less) independent. 

Can't think of any political consequences, long or short-term, in all honesty. Mainland is the same Mainland as it was a week ago, with the majority are locked-up ensuring better prosperity as China has to take a still long way to reach a real power parity with the US. 

Any intent of separation, which the protest leadership seem to have in the back of their mind, is an act of treason and unconstitutional. The consequence would be that these guys, young or all, does not matter, would be given a place next to the Uighur separatist professor.

Had it been one or two decades ago, it would have more negative implications for the central leadership in terms of legitimacy. But with China growing enormously well and the government is actually injecting further vitality to social, political and economic fabric of the society and thus enjoying much more trust and public support (much higher than Western democracies), there is nothing HK separatists could do to harm Beijing.

2. I agree with the comment in the second part of your post. Separatism is the underlined intention, not more democracy. Democracy or any similar terminology are red herrings. But, with such concepts are now becoming over-chewed gums in the mouth of teenagers, I do not know how much serious thought and deep thinking would emerge from the ongoing "struggle." 

Compared with China's ideology-making capability, do the separatists hold any chance of replacing one political discourse with another? With heavy foreign assistance (CNN and all that taking obvious anti-China posture), I doubt it. With effective control of foreign meddling, no way. 

Since 1989, history provided abundant examples of the consequences of doing ideological business with the West. Everything is well-recorded and open for public scrutiny: Any good coming out of the Arab Spring? How about Ukraine? Did the US care about the feelings of the youngsters when they attempted to disturb the business-as-usual in Wall Street (or several thousands miles off Wall Street, in Los Angeles?).

People are not dumb. Dumb people are dumb, sure, but, majority is not. It is often the radicals that are too excited to go out and shout, hence, they make the largest noise while the calm majority is simply watching and holding their own ideas. If there was another movement such as "Occupy the Occupy Central," that would be a larger crowd. But there is a reason why these middle class, normal working people will just go about their business. 

In the end, certain people will be blacklisted, and will subject to certain state interrogation and follow-up, and their chance for a good job in government may be affected because of their criminal record.

Nothing remains the same in China; only thing that does not change is change itself. With so many things going on at the same time and at an amazing speed, the shelf life of democracy will not be too much -- just wait until the next fashion word takes over.



Viet said:


> backed by majority of the HK people



Can your prove your claim? Or are you talking just out of blue air? We have evidence that the pro-Beijing camp showed up in greater numbers when actual (in person, with ID and signature) voting held -- than the pro-West camp's online voting.

Prove your claims or you are an academically dishonest person, which would not be at all surprising to majority of members here.

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## Shishike

Kolaps said:


> It must be very hurt to have a stupid government like CCP, isn't?
> 
> Remind me with Qing Court.
> 
> 
> 
> Just admit it that your government are IDIOT.


not really, once I feel something bad in politics, just visit some news on TAIWAN websites.
ALL GOOD.


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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> Can your prove your claim? Or are you talking just out of blue air? We have evidence that the pro-Beijing camp showed up in greater numbers when actual (in person, with ID and signature) voting held -- than the pro-West camp's online voting.
> 
> Prove your claims or you are an academically dishonest person, which would not be at all surprising to majority of members here.


well, I had chance to visit chinese diaspora outside China. Most people on these countries including HK, Macau, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia want peace, prosperity and freedom. They want to be free of political percesution, not at mercy of any greedy/corrupt officials. China has a long history of denying such basic human rights to common people. Also, Chinese rulers have a long history of persecuting of business people.

qin shihuang believed to a *regime of terror* as he thought only that means could ensure stability and keep the empire intact. mao zedong was a follower of qin shihuang´s policy. there is little doubt that xi jinping does differently. millions of deaths are the price to pay.

many Chinese mainlanders believe the combination of money and military might can intimidate these people. that is a big mistake. similar to rediculous belief everything in the south china sea belongs to you because you have the military might to back up your claim.

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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> well, I had chance to visit chinese diaspora.. .



Good, you are an academically dishonest person.

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## rcrmj

Viet said:


> well, I had chance to visit chinese diaspora outside China. Most people on these countries including HK, Macau, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia want peace, prosperity and freedom. They want to be free of political percesution, not at mercy of any greedy/corrupt officials. China has a long history of denying such basic human rights to common people. Also, Chinese rulers have a long history of persecuting of business people.
> 
> qin shihuang believed to a regime of terror as he thought only that means could ensure stability and keep the empire intact. mao zedong was a follower of qin shihuang´s policy. there is little doubt that xi jinping does differently. millions of deaths are the price to pay.
> 
> many Chinese mainlanders believe the combination of money and military might can intimidate these people. that is a big mistake. similar to rediculous belief everything in the south china sea belongs to you because you have the military might to back up your claim.


and I had met many viets diaspora in the UK where I lived for 10 years, and they all told me viets in vietnam are stupid, brainwashed, ungrateful, short and ugly, I had must found a truth about viets then``

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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> Good, you are an academically dishonest person.


I speak for myself. it is only my personal opinions.


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## Beidou2020

China missed an opportunity after 1989 to kick out foreign NGO's, USAID, foreign media, foreign religious groups, foreign academics and lawyers that support anti-China activities, and any foreign company that engages in anti-China activities.

China's kindess was taken as weakness and now China is suffering due to stupid policies.

Hopefully this protest will result in the Sino-British agreement being abolished and see the end of the 'one country, two systems'. Hong Kong can operate as just another Chinese province. These losers have abused their privilege of being able to run independently, but now they should lose that privilege.

Hong Kong can have its legal system but the Western-style education system must be changed. CPC was going to implement a Chinese education system in Hong Kong but was cancelled due to protests by liberals. Now is the time to implement that reform through force if necessary.

Time to play hardball with Hong Kong liberals and all those anti-China foreigners.

*Unleash the CPC hawks!*

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## Viet

rcrmj said:


> and I had met many viets diaspora in the UK where I lived for 10 years, and they all told me viets in vietnam are stupid, brainwashed, ungrateful, short and ugly, I had must found a truth about viets then``


no, it is you who is ugly. despite living in a western country, you failed to swallow basic common sense. repeating insulting does not make you smarter, idiot.


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## NiceGuy

Beidou2020 said:


> The following need to be kicked out PERMANENTLY:
> 1) USAID.
> 2) foreign NGO's.
> 3) foreign media and all their journalists.
> 4) foreign religious groups.
> 5) foreign academics and lawyers that support anti-China activities.
> 
> And severe restrictions must be placed on foreign embassy and consulate personnel.


Then ,
1. China will get sanctions from US
2. Chinese will lose their jobs in Foxconn
3. ALIBABA stock in US will go to hell, Jack Ma will go broke.
4. More Chinese kids starve to death due to their parents lose jobs.


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## Beidou2020

NiceGuy said:


> Then ,
> 1. China will get sanctions from US
> 2. Chinese will lose their jobs in Foxconn
> 3. ALIBABA stock in US will go to hell, Jack Ma will go broke.
> 4. More Chinese kids starve to death due to their parents lose jobs.



Nope.

US needs China's massive market which many of their multinationals depend on. If those multinational lose their major source of revenue, there margins get hurt big time and their stocks get crushed. 

Large amount of US jobs depend directly and indirectly on trade with China.

Federal Reserve depends on China absorbing dollars through reserve accumulation to keep US inflation low. China is the biggest absorber of US dollars which helps maintain the high marketshare of the dollar.

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## William Hung

Kolaps said:


> That depend on the which part of Taiwan.
> 
> There are democracy's dog in Taiwan, as well as Confucian patriots.
> 
> As well as in mainland too, communist's dog and Confucian patriots.
> 
> 
> Only US is democracy.
> 
> No democracy except US.
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua... sound like a Christian name.
> 
> Btw, his hair style look like an IDIOT!
> 
> And the face of a MAD person.
> 
> 
> Kind of depressing to see this....



What the hell? so you're not a Christian Democracy guy? boooo. 

And that HK guy got hipster hair and glasses. Rural backwards Confucian farmers like you can never understand his fashion style. Cute girl not thinking right.


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## Akasa

Huan said:


> *I have these concerns that I like to address with serious curiosity:
> 
> 1. I was wondering what are the long-term consequences if the Hong Kong protesters keep locking down the city for another couple of weeks or so?
> 
> 2. If these "Hong Kongers" or Hong Kongese" protesters completely choose their own city leaders as they demanded without consent from Beijing, I speculate that these new independent leaders would secretly work on a way to make Hong Kong more separated from Beijing and not closer by 2047. In other words, with each new open election in Hong Kong after 2017, a new or incumbent leader would continue to transition Hong Kong away from mainland China during each office term, away from Beijing because these elected leaders do not answer to Beijing. I suspect these are the ulterior motives of the protesters in a desperate attempt to save their "democracy" long enough after 2047. Thus, they will try to make Hong Kong further away and not closer to being absorbed by the mainland between now and 2047.*
> 
> *What are your thoughts?*



1. It is very unlikely the protesters themselves would allow the protest to extend for such long periods of time. Hong Kong's economy runs on a tightly-knit area of land, and hence any major disruption to the workforce would hamper their financial stability to a great extent. The 1997 Asian crisis was a prime example of the vulnerabilities of an economy that is based on services and intangibles. While it may indirectly hamper business on the Chinese mainland, the drawbacks of an extended strike/protest would have far more grievous consequences for Hong Kong locals than Chinese mainlanders. Such a move will most certainly not harm CCP in any significant way as some hope it will.

2. The long term trend of a HK-mainland relationship in a hypothetical suffrage based electoral system depends heavily on the politicians involved. Despite what is being presented in the media, there are still sizable groups of Beijing supporters within the city. Please keep in mind that Western news sources tend to focus on the most salient individuals of the protest, i.e. the ones who are vehemently against Chinese influence, and hence they usually forget to report on the other side of the story. The direction of Hong Kong in a true democracy will be determined by the politicians and citizens; that's how a democracy work in its most quixotic form. If there is an electoral system that is free of Beijing's influence, then it can be guaranteed that it will be designed by the mainland such that the mainland can exert as much political clout as possible without being upfront about such matters. However, the mere prospect of a truly independent HK electoral system is nothing but a hope. Beijing and the "autonomy" has not, does not, and will not mix. Not unless somebody within the Politburo has a change of heart.

Hopefully a third party will do the honors and mediate a possible meeting between the two sides. China needs to step up her game and prove to Hong Kong that it is capable of managing it without having the city resort to chaos; actions speak louder than words.

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## Kolaps

Black Flag said:


> What the hell? so you're not a Christian Democracy guy? boooo.
> 
> And that HK guy got hipster hair and glasses. Rural backwards Confucian farmers like you can never understand his fashion style. Cute girl not thinking right.



SO you are a Christian?


FACT:

90% of democracy countries fail! 

All Confucian states, even Confucian community pocket around the world are successful. 


What is your opinion about this?


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## NiceGuy

Beidou2020 said:


> Nope.
> 
> US needs China's massive market which many of their multinationals depend on. If those multinational lose their major source of revenue, there margins get hurt big time and their stocks get crushed.
> 
> Large amount of US jobs depend directly and indirectly on trade with China.
> 
> Federal Reserve depends on China absorbing dollars through reserve accumulation to keep US inflation low. China is the biggest absorber of US dollars which helps maintain the high marketshare of the dollar.


Then tell ur Govt to stop the protest supported by US now, u will see US sanction will come after that


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## 劉天兆

NiceGuy said:


> Then ,
> 1. China will get sanctions from US
> 2. Chinese will lose their jobs in Foxconn
> 3. ALIBABA stock in US will go to hell, Jack Ma will go broke.
> 4. More Chinese kids starve to death due to their parents lose jobs.


Well, I don't know where do you find the strength send the above comments. Because you know, although we now are the factory of the world, but we also become the world market. The next stage will make efforts to upgrade our industry. We are investing heavily in the introduction of technology and the development of technology, when these seed blossom sprouting, like today like Japan, you will see a 'China manufacturing' change. If you want to know who is the world's most astute leadership group with the diplomatic community, can observe carefully China national policy, I believe you will get a satisfactory answer. Now what hasn't happened, you this as a small countries took the lead in the climax, true let me some obscure. Competition among great powers, remind you of national Ministry of foreign affairs, to speak in a low voice. Please do remember

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## William Hung

Kolaps said:


> SO you are a Christian?
> 
> 
> FACT:
> 
> 90% of democracy countries fail!
> 
> All Confucian states, even Confucian community pocket around the world are successful.
> 
> 
> What is your opinion about this?



US is Christian. 

US is the number one superpower today. 

All Confucian states are successful you say? then why did they fall before Communist powered CPC and Christian powered KMT? Even Confucian VietNam fell before the communist powered VCP. 

In fact, Taiwan today is not 100% successful because there are still pockets of Confucian spies,like you, hiding in the country. 

But Kami-sama has already chosen his loyal servants in the KMT to protect their country against these Confucian spies. 

Be warned, Kami-sama has eyes and can see everything, you cannot hide forever. Once all the Confucian spies like you get burnt, Taiwan will finally fall into the saving arm of Christ. Then, Taiwan will finally be successful 100%.

All democratic states like US and EU countries who originated from Christian kingdoms are successful. Japan and Taiwan today still rely on protection of these countries. 

What is your opinion on this?


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## Kolaps

Black Flag said:


> US is Christian.
> 
> US is the number one superpower today.
> 
> All Confucian states are successful you say? then why did they fall before Communist powered CPC and Christian powered KMT? Even Confucian VietNam fell before the communist powered VCP.
> 
> In fact, Taiwan today is not 100% successful because there are still pockets of Confucian spies,like you, hiding in the country.
> 
> But Kami-sama has already chosen his loyal servants in the KMT to protect their country against these Confucian spies.
> 
> Be warned, Kami-sama has eyes and can see everything, you cannot hide forever. Once all the Confucian spies like you get burnt, Taiwan will finally fall into the saving arm of Christ. Then, Taiwan will finally be successful 100%.
> 
> All democratic states like US and EU countries who originated from Christian kingdoms are successful. Japan and Taiwan today still rely on protection of these countries.
> 
> What is your opinion on this?



It seems you are very true!

So US is not a democracy?

Which one better between Jewish Christian and Muslims?

It seems Jewish people beat out Christian in US by large margin?


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## NiceGuy

劉天兆 said:


> Well, I don't know where do you find the strength send the above comments. Because you know, although we now are the factory of the world, but we also become the world market. The next stage will make efforts to upgrade our industry. We are investing heavily in the introduction of technology and the development of technology, when these seed blossom sprouting, like today like Japan, you will see a 'China manufacturing' change. If you want to know who is the world's most astute leadership group with the diplomatic community, can observe carefully China national policy, I believe you will get a satisfactory answer. Now what hasn't happened, you this as a small countries took the lead in the climax, true let me some obscure. Competition among great powers, remind you of national Ministry of foreign affairs, to speak in a low voice. Please do remember


China cant even make a good car engine now, so pls face wt the truth that Talented men dont wanna work for ur corrupted Govt., even 17 years old HK kids like Joshua Wong hate ur corrupted Govt. so much too.

So, China never can make a good car engine when the leaders only use corrupted and dumb people in their administration.


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## 劉天兆

Black Flag said:


> US is Christian.
> 
> US is the number one superpower today.
> 
> All Confucian states are successful you say? then why did they fall before Communist powered CPC and Christian powered KMT? Even Confucian VietNam fell before the communist powered VCP.
> 
> In fact, Taiwan today is not 100% successful because there are still pockets of Confucian spies,like you, hiding in the country.
> 
> But Kami-sama has already chosen his loyal servants in the KMT to protect their country against these Confucian spies.
> 
> Be warned, Kami-sama has eyes and can see everything, you cannot hide forever. Once all the Confucian spies like you get burnt, Taiwan will finally fall into the saving arm of Christ. Then, Taiwan will finally be successful 100%.
> 
> All democratic states like US and EU countries who originated from Christian kingdoms are successful. Japan and Taiwan today still rely on protection of these countries.
> 
> What is your opinion on this?


Please forgive my ignorance, you which eyes see USA is successful? What is success? Everywhere provoked the war? Spreading hatred? The America taxpayer money to build and not in the world military base? The soldiers with the life of a futile battle, and then use the more massive arms needs to satisfy the arms dealer appetite, let arms dealers to spend more money to help the next time someone in the election?

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## 劉天兆

NiceGuy said:


> China cant even make a good car engine now, so pls face wt the truth that Talented men dont wanna work for ur corrupted Govt., even 17 years old HK kids like Joshua Wong hate ur corrupted Govt. so much too.
> 
> So, China never can make a good car engine when the leaders only use corrupted and dumb people in their administration.


My poor friend, had not Chinese, please don't talk nonsense. We are in the world the number of the first, you go Google. We do a nuclear bomb, spacecraft, manned submersibles, satellite, ships, aircraft, super computer, there are numerous senior talent to support products. If you think I Chinese no talent, please consult the International Olympic math competition results in 1990 after their. By the way, do you have a strong local Vietnam what can let you have the qualification to underestimate Chinese?I have to give you a China name-----渣渣！

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## TheMatador

Capture the protesters and send them all to the countryside for labor and reeducation in socialist Marxist Leninist Maoist theory!

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## longyi

Beijing should just ignore these protesters, who may or may not instigated by the west, and let HK authority deals with them. Their aims are peaceful protests and try to draw more supports from the populace at the same time. They're unlikely to get them because HK has no unions--NO WORK NO PAY. As people know money is king in HK.Their protests clog up the central districts and eventually will draw peoples' irks. Soon or later the pro Beijing crowd will have enough time to organize and smother this group.

If they're allowed to pick their own chief, which never happened during their entire history and yet they never complained out loud, independence will probably be their next call. 

If these protesters are smart and think of themselves as Chinese they'll get better results if they wave the Chinese flags while they march. I haven't seen one so obviously either they think they're too good to be under Chinese rule or their intentions are insidious. 

On a second note, at least this time around, they didn't raise the Union Jacks and the colonial flags.


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## William Hung

Kolaps said:


> It seems you are very true!
> 
> So US is not a democracy?



You should not ask if US is democracy or not. What you need to ask first is, can you make easy money in the US or not? Ma Yun answered this question a few weeks ago. 



> Which one better between Jewish Christian and Muslims?



Who is better? you decide. Some Muslim countries invite Christian countries to send their fighter jets to bomb their neighbourhood. So far, I haven't heard any Christian countries invited any Muslim countries to come over and bomb them. You decide who is more clever. 



> It seems Jewish people beat out Christian in US by large margin?



Jewish and Christian worship the same Kamisama. Is just that Jewish people don't know the proper name of their Kamisama. Jewish people sometime forget how to spell "God", thats why they just write G-d. 



劉天兆 said:


> Please forgive my ignorance, you which eyes see USA is successful? What is success? Everywhere provoked the war? Spreading hatred? The America taxpayer money to build and not in the world military base? The soldiers with the life of a futile battle, and then use the more massive arms needs to satisfy the arms dealer appetite, let arms dealers to spend more money to help the next time someone in the election?



Friend, you need to ask a US person for all those answers. I'm not from the US so I can't answer on behalf of them. 

When I see US kids playing with their IPhone 6 and I play snake on my Nokia 3310, I feel they are more successful than me.

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## rcrmj

Viet said:


> no, it is you who is ugly. despite living in a western country, you failed to swallow basic common sense. repeating insulting does not make you smarter, idiot.


talking about common sense``lol you little viets are really amazing creatures, I just used the same mechanism you applied to draw a hideous conclusion in post #7, do you want me to tell you more stories i heard in the U.K regarding viets`?

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## William Hung

rcrmj said:


> talking about common sense``lol you little viets are really amazing creatures, I just used the same mechanism you applied to draw a hideous conclusion in post #7, do you want me to tell you more stories i heard in the U.K regarding viets`?



I heard they are very good and strong in the agriculture business. Is that true? 

Some people say, if VN have real democracy and capitalist like the west, then VN may become very developed like South Korea. 

If the Vietnamese people are doing well in democracy-capitalist country like UK, and dominate the agriculture business, then they must be right, VN has potential to become developed like SK in the future.

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## Kolaps

Black Flag said:


> You should not ask if US is democracy or not. What you need to ask first is, can you make easy money in the US or not? Ma Yun answered this question a few weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Who is better? you decide. Some Muslim countries invite Christian countries to send their fighter jets to bomb their neighbourhood. So far, I haven't heard any Christian countries invited any Muslim countries to come over and bomb them. You decide who is more clever.
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish and Christian worship the same Kamisama. Is just that Jewish people don't know the proper name of their Kamisama. Jewish people sometime forget how to spell "God", thats why they just write G-d.
> 
> 
> 
> Friend, you need to ask a US person for all those answers. I'm not from the US so I can't answer on behalf of them.
> 
> When I see US kids playing with their IPhone 6 and I play snake on my Nokia 3310, I feel they are more successful than me.



Very smart answer! 

I hope more members like you here.


----------



## rcrmj

Black Flag said:


> I heard they are very good and strong in the agriculture business. Is that true?
> 
> Some people say, if VN have real democracy and capitalist like the west, then VN may become very developed like South Korea.
> 
> If the Vietnamese people are doing well in democracy-capitalist country like UK, and dominate the agriculture business, then they must be right, VN has potential to become developed like SK in the future.


are you kidding right`` the successful vietnamese I met in the U.K were ethnically Chinese, and they didnt want to be called viets```except the first Summer vacation job I had in Briton like 15 years ago, the owner was very nice, and he told me he was Chinese, but on the last day, before i was moving to London for Uni, i found out he was vietnamese, really nice person though

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## William Hung

Kolaps said:


> Very smart answer!
> 
> I hope more members like you here.



Thanks to the cute girl. 

When I look at her cute face in your avatar, my mind becomes enlightened! 

I think she is watching a Christian film and planning in her mind how to take back the motherland! 

I just hope she is not a Confucian spy,,,, or a ladyboy.


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## AgentOrange

Back on topic: I lurk on some other Chinese military/defence forums and one of the reputable posters there, who lives in Hong Kong, with connections to the HK Police talked to one of the higher ranking officers and the cop basically had this to say, and I quote:

"1)The occupy kids are just partying pawns of anti-china politicians who are financed by the yanks attempting a mini june4th.

2)They are facing increasing backlash from the normally apolitical segment of the popn, like shopkeepers/business people

3)Their stamina can't last

4)No need to use excessive force to deal with them.

5)Democracy in many countries to the CIA is just puppet strings."

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## William Hung

rcrmj said:


> are you kidding right`` the successful vietnamese I met in the U.K were ethnically Chinese, and they didnt want to be called viets```except the first Summer vacation job I had in Briton like 15 years ago, the owner was very nice, and he told me he was Chinese, but on the last day, before i was moving to London for Uni, i found out he was vietnamese, really nice person though



No I'm serious. I know the ethnic Viet dominate the agriculture business in Australia, the indoor hydroponic type. I heard they are also dominate in the UK and Canada. You need to Google it. 

They have their common motto:

Back in VietNam, I grow rice. Here, I grow something else. 

@mike2000 may know more about it. 
@ChineseTiger1986 maybe know about Canada.

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## mrfly911

Black Flag said:


> When I see US kids playing with their IPhone 6 and I play snake on my Nokia 3310, I feel they are more successful than me.


To be honest, I like this comment.


----------



## AgentOrange

NiceGuy said:


> They may lack of food bcz of many reasons such as suffering floor, land slide etc so our Gov.t cant provide enough rice, fish for them at that time, but still No VN kids starve to death in dirty Trash like in China (U can not find any link say that VN kids starve to death in trash bin).
> 
> China kids not only face wt starving, but also face wt the risk of economy collapse now, thats why handsome HK kid like Joshua Wong must stand up and protest now
> View attachment 98342
> 
> 
> 
> But they r still alive, no kids starving to death in Trash bin in VN like in China



My article proves that Vietnamese kids are* much worse and they are starving*. It's from a Viet news source and that Viet doctor really thinks your country has a serious problem facing it. *China isn't on that list* of starving, malnourished kids. *Vietnam is*. Only a starving person with a brain that's suffering from underdevelopment would keep saying the opposite after being slammed with a mountain of facts. 

But you go ahead and keep clinging to that one single story about China while your next generation of kids blur the line between midgets and normal human beings. Moral victories, the only type Viets have ever won, won't keep your kids from becoming shorter and dumber. But since that's the only thing you Vietnamese hobbits have got, keep clinging to that little bit of news like it was "your precious" Ring of Power.

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## TheMatador

AgentOrange said:


> My article proves that Vietnamese kids are* much worse and they are starving*. It's from a Viet news source and that Viet doctor really thinks your country has a serious problem facing it. *China isn't on that list* of starving, malnourished kids. *Vietnam is*. Only a starving person with a brain that's suffering from underdevelopment would keep saying the opposite after being slammed with a mountain of facts.
> 
> But you go ahead and keep clinging to that one single story about China while your next generation of kids blur the line between midgets and normal human beings. Moral victories, the only type Viets have ever won, won't keep your kids from becoming shorter and dumber. But since that's the only thing you Vietnamese hobbits have got, keep clinging to that little bit of news like it was "your precious" Ring of Power.


LOL Viets are such Ah Q's.

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## AgentOrange

TheMatador said:


> LOL Viets are such Ah Q's.



I agree with you. I think it's a national trait of Vietnam, to be honest. Their willful ignorance and stubbornness is useful when you have to fight American B-52s with spears covered in poop. But when your own doctors say your country is full of starving dwarf children it's probably time to acknowledge that fact and try to fix it rather than focus on the one "starving China kid in bin blah blah blah" as your only comeback.

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## Kolaps

Black Flag said:


> Thanks to the cute girl.
> 
> When I look at her cute face in your avatar, my mind becomes enlightened!
> 
> I think she is watching a Christian film and planning in her mind how to take back the motherland!
> 
> I just hope she is not a Confucian spy,,,, or a ladyboy.



She is a Confucian.


----------



## Kolaps

AgentOrange said:


> Back on topic: I lurk on some other Chinese military/defence forums and one of the reputable posters there, who lives in Hong Kong, with connections to the HK Police talked to one of the higher ranking officers and the cop basically had this to say, and I quote:
> 
> "1)The occupy kids are just partying pawns of anti-china politicians who are financed by the yanks attempting a mini june4th.
> 
> 2)They are facing increasing backlash from the normally apolitical segment of the popn, like shopkeepers/business people
> 
> 3)Their stamina can't last
> 
> 4)No need to use excessive force to deal with them.
> 
> 5)Democracy in many countries to the CIA is just puppet strings."



Link to the forum plz?


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## Kolaps

rcrmj said:


> are you kidding right`` the successful vietnamese I met in the U.K were ethnically Chinese, and they didnt want to be called viets```except the first Summer vacation job I had in Briton like 15 years ago, the owner was very nice, and he told me he was Chinese, but on the last day, before i was moving to London for Uni, i found out he was vietnamese, really nice person though



Most of overseas Vietnamese are Chinese Vietnamese.

As they are prosecuted back then and became boat people.

In Taiwan, they are just an ordinary Chinese.



Black Flag said:


> I heard they are very good and strong in the agriculture business. Is that true?
> 
> Some people say, if VN have real democracy and capitalist like the west, then VN may become very developed like South Korea.
> 
> If the Vietnamese people are doing well in democracy-capitalist country like UK, and dominate the agriculture business, then they must be right, VN has potential to become developed like SK in the future.



If you to know the future of Vietnam, just see their recent PISA score.

Young Vietnamese of today will shape the future of Vietnam.

They scored very good, while Taiwan is falling apart!

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## DoTell

The long term consequences for Hong Kong are these:

*1. Beijing will go all out to marginalize Hong Kong. *
Mainland China has been trying its hardest to keep Hong Kong in the lead as a financial center, sea transportation center. They've been holding off developing similar sectors in other major cities such as Shanghai, ShenZhen and GuangZhou. Incident like this makes them realize that Hong Kong can be played by foreign hands. It is important to diversify and reduce its weight on China's economy.

*2. Beijing will gradually increase tax for products from Hong Kong. *
Currently mainland gives enormous tax benefit to Hong Kong products, almost 0%. They also don't collect any tax at all for administration. It is unheard of that any country would not collect any local tax from a region that accounts for 3% of its GDP. The HK'ers have been spoiled so much that they think they are entitled for everything. It is time to take that away and make them earn everything.

*3. The cost of water, gas and other resources from mainland to Hong Kong will go up closer to their true market values.*
Hong Kong relies 100% on mainland for water. And they've been getting it cheap year after year. They must pay at least close to the resources' market price. Why would mainland subsidize the "superior residence" of Hong Kong?

*4. Beijing still gets to appoint Hong Kong's governor *
You didn't ask for your own governor for the past 100 years under the U.K. rule, you don't get to ask that now either.

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## William Hung

mrfly911 said:


> To be honest, I like this comment.



You like the comment because it tells the truth about your unsuccessful life and feeling. So what Nokia do you use?



Kolaps said:


> She is a Confucian.



She used to be a good Korean Christian... but someone leaked her video showing her performing Confucian activities. 

But she is still a cute girl and knows everything. In my heart, I know she will return back to be a Christian again.


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## Huaren

DoTell said:


> The long term consequences for Hong Kong are these:
> 
> *1. Beijing will go all out to marginalize Hong Kong. *
> Mainland China has been trying its hardest to keep Hong Kong in the lead as a financial center, sea transportation center. They've been holding off developing similar sectors in other major cities such as Shanghai, ShenZhen and GuangZhou. Incident like this makes them realize that Hong Kong can be played by foreign hands. It is important to diversify and reduce its weight on China's economy.
> 
> *2. Beijing will gradually increase tax for products from Hong Kong. *
> Currently mainland gives enormous tax benefit to Hong Kong products, almost 0%. They also don't collect any tax at all for administration. It is unheard of that any country would not collect any local tax from a region that accounts for 3% of its GDP. The HK'ers have been spoiled so much that they think they are entitled for everything. It is time to take that away and make them earn everything.
> 
> *3. The cost of water, gas and other resources from mainland to Hong Kong will go up closer to their true market values.*
> Hong Kong relies 100% on mainland for water. And they've been getting it cheap year after year. They must pay at least close to the resources' market price. Why would mainland subsidize the "superior residence" of Hong Kong?
> 
> *4. Beijing still gets to appoint Hong Kong's governor *
> You didn't ask for your own governor for the past 100 years under the U.K. rule, you don't get to ask that now either.



If it really get out of the hand this movement will be suppressed, but I doubt central government would do any of the above, most likely there will be buisness as usual afterward, but ofc there will be no more political compromise.

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## mrfly911

Black Flag said:


> You like the comment because it tells the truth about your unsuccessful life and feeling. So what Nokia do you use?


 Great! I'm using a stupid phone now.







Black Flag said:


> She used to be a good Korean Christian... but someone leaked her video showing her performing Confucian activities.
> But she is still a cute girl and knows everything. In my heart, I know she will return back to be a Christian again.


Do you know why there are many Korean Protestantism? They aided many Protestantism churches in VN.


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## NiceGuy

AgentOrange said:


> My article proves that Vietnamese kids are* much worse and they are starving*. It's from a Viet news source and that Viet doctor really thinks your country has a serious problem facing it. *China isn't on that list* of starving, malnourished kids. *Vietnam is*. Only a starving person with a brain that's suffering from underdevelopment would keep saying the opposite after being slammed with a mountain of facts.
> 
> But you go ahead and keep clinging to that one single story about China while your next generation of kids blur the line between midgets and normal human beings. Moral victories, the only type Viets have ever won, won't keep your kids from becoming shorter and dumber. But since that's the only thing you Vietnamese hobbits have got, keep clinging to that little bit of news like it was "your precious" Ring of Power.


Give me the link say our kids r starving, can u ??

Bcz some bad mainlander ignore the death of Chinese kids starving in trash , thats why kids like Joshua Wong must stand up and fight against u

Joshua Wong will come and fix your Ah Q brain soon


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## powastick

Just need snipers, so many tall buildings. Shoot some protesters and cops. Viola.

Same playbook from Libya, Syria, and Ukraine. HK people so naive.

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## NiceGuy

劉天兆 said:


> My poor friend, had not Chinese, please don't talk nonsense. We are in the world the number of the first, you go Google. We do a nuclear bomb, spacecraft, manned submersibles, satellite, ships, aircraft, super computer, there are numerous senior talent to support products. If you think I Chinese no talent, please consult the International Olympic math competition results in 1990 after their. By the way, do you have a strong local Vietnam what can let you have the qualification to underestimate Chinese?I have to give you a China name-----渣渣！


Blah blah blah, so where is a talented guy who can help China make a good car engine ??


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## kuge

the boxun_com site is inaccessible now something i expect in connection with HK protest.
i suspect it is the work of hackers in china.


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## TheMatador

NiceGuy said:


> No, Mr. Xi wont do it, thats a political suicide now coz he will have to face wt hard US sanction that may lead to the economic collapse .
> 
> China is just a slave to US, Mr Xi know that, I think he will chose the way of Mr. Deng xiao Ping in treating wt US. Thats is keep bowing down and accept the rule of US in Hong Kong and Taiwan coz US army is still too strong compared wt PLA. Meanwhile, he will keep taking down his political rivals in Communist party to fortify his throne.
> 
> He doenst wanna end up in prison like his political rivals, bro.
> 
> 
> Dude, the protest r student, they dont have jobs yet, so they dont care abt salary coz their parents will still raise them. They dont have wife-kid to take car of ,too.
> 
> So, I believe they will win , specially when they have US' support


When the Vietnam civil war starts again, China will intervene with PLA to make sure the civil war continues for decades


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## NiceGuy

TheMatador said:


> When the Vietnam civil war starts again, China will intervene with PLA to make sure the civil war continues for decades


Yeah, keep dreaming Mr. Ah Q, dont forget that the fire is burning your house, not mine, I'm eating pop corn when watching u guys screaming in the fire now


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## TheMatador

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, keep dreaming Mr. Ah Q, dont forget that the fire is burning your house, not mine, I'm eating pop corn when watching u guys screaming in the fire now


Screaming in the fire .... yes, like a US Army helicopter came by and napalmed my whole village


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## NiceGuy

TheMatador said:


> Screaming in the fire .... yes, like a US Army helicopter came by and napalmed my whole village


Old story, We kicked them back home already, now, they r coming and burning your house....China is on the verge of collapse. Mr. Xi cant do nothing but to sit and cry for losing HK

Hansome Joshua Wong will become HK chief


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## Jlaw

Black Flag said:


> You should not ask if US is democracy or not. What you need to ask first is, can you make easy money in the US or not? Ma Yun answered this question a few weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Who is better? you decide. Some Muslim countries invite Christian countries to send their fighter jets to bomb their neighbourhood. So far, I haven't heard any Christian countries invited any Muslim countries to come over and bomb them. You decide who is more clever.
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish and Christian worship the same Kamisama. Is just that Jewish people don't know the proper name of their Kamisama. Jewish people sometime forget how to spell "God", thats why they just write G-d.
> 
> 
> 
> Friend, you need to ask a US person for all those answers. I'm not from the US so I can't answer on behalf of them.
> 
> When I see US kids playing with their IPhone 6 and I play snake on my Nokia 3310, I feel they are more successful than me.


You're wrong friend. I drive a ten year old car, can buy a 50k car with no loan. I have an ancient nexus phone. You are saying those kids are better off?

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## gambit

劉天兆 said:


> Please forgive my ignorance,...


You are forgiven for the ignorance you showed in your post.


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## AgentOrange

NiceGuy said:


> Give me the link say our kids r starving, can u ??
> 
> Bcz some bad mainlander ignore the death of Chinese kids starving in trash , thats why kids like Joshua Wong must stand up and fight against u
> 
> Joshua Wong will come and fix your Ah Q brain soon



I already gave you the link. The one saying your kids don't have enough food, are starving, and as a result, are practically midgets. Here it is: Vietnam has 2.2mn malnourished children 
Go read it again. Now you give me a link saying Vietnam is better than China in any measure of human development. Anything at all. I'll be waiting.

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## AgentOrange

INS Vishal said:


> Please free HK , tibet and all other captured provinces . live in peace like brothers china ... Freedom is possible .



You free Kashmir, Assam, Nagaland, and NE India first. Since you're a democracy, you know freedom. Show Commie China the way by practicing what you preach. Freedom is possible for India.

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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong protests: China on foreign interference*

China has again voiced opposition against foreign interference in‪#‎HongKong‬ affairs.

On Monday Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying spoke at a press conference on several issues, including some foreign countries'responses to the protests in Hong Kong.

Hua Chunying said, “We have noticed remarks made by certain countries. I'd like to reiterate that Hong Kong is China's Hong Kong,which is a special administrative region of China.”


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## TaiShang

*US Openly Approves Hong Kong Chaos it Created*
By Tony Cartalucci
Global Research, September 30, 2014

_The “Occupy Central” protests in Hong Kong continue on – destabilizing the small southern Chinese island famous as an international hub for corporate-financier interests, and before that, the colonial ambitions of the British Empire. Those interests have been conspiring for years to peel the island away from Beijing after it was begrudgingly returned to China in the late 1990′s, and use it as a springboard to further destabilize mainland China._

Behind the so-called “Occupy Central” protests, which masquerade as a “pro-democracy” movement seeking “universal suffrage” and “full democracy,” is a deep and insidious network of foreign financial, political, and media support. *Prominent among them is the US State Department and its National Endowment for Democracy (NED) as well as NED’s subsidiary, the National Democratic Institute (NDI)*.

Now, the US has taken a much more overt stance in supporting the chaos their own manipulative networks have prepared and are now orchestrating. The White House has now officially backed “Occupy Central.” Reuters in its article, ”White House Shows Support For Aspirations Of Hong Kong People,” would claim:

The White House is watching democracy protests in Hong Kong closely and supports the “aspirations of the Hong Kong people,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest said on Monday.”

The United States supports universal suffrage in Hong Kong in accordance with the Basic Law and we support the aspirations of the Hong Kong people,” said Earnest, who also urged restraint on both sides.

*US State Department Has Built Up and Directs “Occupy Central”*




_*Image*: The US through NED and its subsidiaries have a long history of
promoting subversion and division within China. _

*Earnest’s comments are verbatim the demands of “Occupy Central” protest leaders, but more importantly, verbatim the long-laid designs the US State Department’s NDI articulates on its own webpage dedicated to its ongoing meddling in Hong Kong.* The term “universal suffrage”and reference to “Basic Law” and its “interpretation” to mean “genuine democracy” is stated clearly on NDI’s website which claims:

The Basic Law put in place a framework of governance, whereby special interest groups, or “functional constituencies,” maintain half of the seats in the Legislative Council (LegCo). At present, Hong Kong’s chief executive is also chosen by an undemocratically selected committee. According to the language of the Basic Law, however, “universal suffrage” is the “ultimate aim.” While “universal suffrage” remains undefined in the law, Hong Kong citizens have interpreted it to mean genuine democracy.

*To push this agenda – which essentially is to prevent Beijing from vetting candidates running for office in Hong Kong, thus opening the door to politicians openly backed, funded, and directed by the US State Department – NDI lists an array of ongoing meddling it is carrying out on the island.* It states: 

on a separate page, NDI describes programs* it is conducting with the University of Hong Kong *to achieve its agenda:

The Centre for Comparative and Public Law (CCPL) at the University of Hong Kong, with support from NDI, is working to amplify citizens’ voices in that consultation process by creating Design Democracy Hong Kong, a unique and neutral website that gives citizens a place to discuss the future of Hong Kong’s electoral system.

It should be no surprise to readers then, to find out each and every “Occupy Central” leader is either directly linked to the US State Department, NED, and NDI, or involved in one of NDI’s many schemes.





_*Image*: Benny Tai, “Occupy Central’s” leader, has spent years associated with
and benefiting from US State Department cash and support._

“Occupy Central’s” self-proclaimed leader, Benny Tai, is a law professor at the aforementioned University of Hong Kong and a regular collaborator with the NDI-funded CCPL. In 2006-2007 (annual report, .pdf) he was named as a board member – a position he has held until at least as recently as last year. In CCPL’s 2011-2013 annual report (.pdf), NDI is listed as having provided funding to the organization to “design and implement an online Models of Universal Suffrage portal where the general public can discuss and provide feedback and ideas on which method of universal suffrage is most suitable for Hong Kong.”

Curiously, in CCPL’s most recent annual report for 2013-2014 (.pdf), Tai is not listed as a board member. However, he is listed as participating in at least 3 conferences organized by CCPL, and as heading at least one of CCPL’s projects. At least one conference has him speaking side-by-side another prominent “Occupy Central” figure, Audrey Eu. The 2013-2014 annual report also lists NDI as funding CCPL’s “Design Democracy Hong Kong” website.

Civic Party chairwoman Audrey Eu Yuet-mee, in addition to speaking at CCPL-NDI functions side-by-side with Benny Tai, is entwined with the US State Department and its NDI elsewhere. She regularly attends forums sponsored by NED and its subsidiary NDI. In 2009 she was a featured speaker at an NDI sponsored public policy forum hosted by “SynergyNet,” also funded by NDI. In 2012 she was a guest speaker at the NDI-funded Women’s Centre “International Women’s Day” event, hosted by the Hong Kong Council of Women (HKCW) which is also annually funded by the NDI.





_*Image*: *Martin Lee and Anson Chan belly up to the table with US Vice President Joseph Biden in Washington DC earlier this year*. During their trip, both Lee and Chan would attend a NED-hosted talk about the future of “democracy” in Hong Kong. Undoubtedly, “Occupy Central” and Washington’s support of it was a topic reserved for behind closed doors._

There is also Martin Lee, founding chairman of Hong Kong’s Democrat Party and another prominent figure who has come out in support of “Occupy Central.” Just this year, Lee was in Washington meeting directly with US Vice President Joseph Biden, US Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, and even took part in an NED talk hosted specifically for him and his agenda of “democracy” in Hong Kong. Lee even has a NED page dedicated to him after he was awarded in 1997 NED’s “Democracy Award.” With him in Washington was Anson Chan, another prominent figure currently supporting the ongoing unrest in Hong Kong’s streets.

*“Occupy Central’s” Very Unpopular Agenda *

If democracy is characterized by *self-rule,* than *an “Occupy Central” movement in which every prominent figure is the benefactor of and beholden to foreign cash, support, and a foreign-driven agenda, has nothing at all to do with democracy.* It does have, however, everything to do with abusing democracy to undermine Beijing’s control over Hong Kong, and open the door to candidates that clearly serve foreign interests, not those of China, or even the people of Hong Kong.




_*Image*: The National Endowment for Democracy and its various subsidiaries including the National Democratic Institute, are backed by immense corporate-financier interests who merely couch their hegemonic agenda behind “promoting democracy” and “freedom” worldwide. Above is a representation of the interests present upon NED’s board of directors. _

*What is more telling is the illegal referendum “Occupy Central” conducted earlier this year in an attempt to justify impending, planned chaos in Hong Kong’s streets. The referendum focused on the US State Department’s goal of implementing “universal suffrage” – however, only a fifth of Hong Kong’s electorate participated in the referendum, and of those that did participate, no alternative was given beyond US-backed organizations and their respective proposals to undermine Beijing.*

The BBC would report in its article, “Hong Kong democracy ‘referendum’ draws nearly 800,000,” that:

A total of 792,808 voters took part in an unofficial referendum on universal suffrage in Hong Kong, organisers said.

The 10-day poll was held by protest group Occupy Central.

Campaigners want the public to be able to elect Hong Kong’s leader, the chief executive. The Hong Kong government says the vote has no legal standing.

About 42% of voters backed a proposal allowing the public, a nominating committee, and political parties to name candidates for the top job.

*For a protest movement that claims it stands for “democracy,” implied to mean the will of the people, it has an unpopular agenda clearly rejected by the vast majority of Hong Kong’s population – and is now disrupting vital parts of the island, holding the population and stability hostage to push its agenda. All of this is being orchestrated and supported by the United States, its State Department, and its network of global sedition operating under NED and its subsidiary NDI.*

While the Western media shows mobs of “thousands” implying that “the people” support ongoing chaos in Hong Kong’s streets, “*Occupy Central’s” own staged, illegal referendum proves it does not have the backing of the people and that its agenda is rejected both by mainland China and the people of Hong Kong.*

Exposing the insidious, disingenuous, foreign-driven nature of “Occupy Central” is important. It is also important to objectively examine each and every protest that springs up around the world. Superficiality cannot “link” one movement to another, one group to hidden special interests. Rather, one must adhere to due diligence in identifying and profiling the leaders, following the money, identifying their true motivations, and documenting their links to special interests within or beyond the borders of the nation the protests are taking place in.

By doing this, movements like “Occupy Central” can be exposed, blunted, and rolled over before the destruction and chaos other US-backed destabilization efforts have exacted elsewhere – namely the Middle East and Ukraine – can unfold in Hong Kong.​

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## ayachyan

anyway , they made a big mistake, they should fund a ambitious and proactive people or institution. those student can't do anything except sitting and yelling. don't forget that you gain because you paid. CCP won the whole China because they fought and blood for it. 1.3 billions people only trust those is willing to pay a huge price for their faith.
those protesters just want to eat a delicious feast without paying a bit. who will care them?


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## ayachyan

well ,in my opinion. the real goal of this protest is not for so-call.


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## Infra_Man99

AgentOrange said:


> I agree with you. I think it's a national trait of Vietnam, to be honest. Their willful ignorance and stubbornness is useful when you have to fight American B-52s with spears covered in poop. But when your own doctors say your country is full of starving dwarf children it's probably time to acknowledge that fact and try to fix it rather than focus on the one "starving China kid in bin blah blah blah" as your only comeback.



Keep in mind that Vietnam only successfully defended against US control, because Vietnam received tremendous support from both the Soviet Union and China. The massive support came in the form of military weapons, military training, espionage, political assistance, economic aid, and some military personnel. Even then, Vietnam's military and civilian casualties were huge, and their land was heavily damaged and poisoned.

Going back on topic, the Hong Kong protesters are being exposed as useful idiots for the US. They are struggling to gain the support of most of Hong Kong.


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## Jlaw

rcrmj said:


> talking about common sense``lol you little viets are really amazing creatures, I just used the same mechanism you applied to draw a hideous conclusion in post #7, do you want me to tell you more stories i heard in the U.K regarding viets`?


Please do.



rcrmj said:


> are you kidding right`` the successful vietnamese I met in the U.K were ethnically Chinese, and they didnt want to be called viets```except the first Summer vacation job I had in Briton like 15 years ago, the owner was very nice, and he told me he was Chinese, but on the last day, before i was moving to London for Uni, i found out he was vietnamese, really nice person though


Yup that is what majority of Vietnamese tell me also while in school. They claim to be Chinese also.

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## Rechoice

Jlaw said:


> Please do.



we will tell you too.


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## Jlaw

NiceGuy said:


> Old story, We kicked them back home already, now, they r coming and burning your house....China is on the verge of collapse. Mr. Xi cant do nothing but to sit and cry for losing HK
> 
> Hansome Joshua Wong will become HK chief
> 
> View attachment 100265
> 
> 
> View attachment 100267


Hey NiceGuy, do you have a hard on for Joshua Wong? You post his pics on every thread?

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## key-CN

American toys , throw the kind of tired .


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## Jlaw

Infra_Man99 said:


> Keep in mind that Vietnam only successfully defended against US control, because Vietnam received tremendous support from both the Soviet Union and China. The massive support came in the form of military weapons, military training, espionage, political assistance, economic aid, and some military personnel. Even then, Vietnam's military and civilian casualties were huge, and their land was heavily damaged and poisoned.
> 
> Going back on topic, the Hong Kong protesters are being exposed as useful idiots for the US. They are struggling to gain the support of most of Hong Kong.


It's funny because every HKers know this saying 聰明人出口笨人出手 but still get tricked for being pawns


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## libertad

Every US embassy in the world is a 5th column. They are dens of sedition. Haven't countries learnt already? The US government plots coups out of their embassies. From Iran to Venezuela, from Ukraine to Libya.


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## henry he

it is ok for us!! it doesn't make nay sense, as a chinese saying goes : if you want someone to die ,make him crazy first!

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## key-CN

Idiots

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## CHN Bamboo

香港应该在澳门前感到羞愧。
Feel shamed!HK people are poorer than those in Macao

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## beijingwalker

*China is Hong Kong’s future – not its enemy*
Protesters cry democracy but most are driven by dislocation and resentment at mainlanders’ success





Martin Jacques
The Guardian, Tuesday 30 September 2014 19.45 
The upheaval sweeping Hong Kong is more complicated than on the surface it might appear. Protests have erupted over direct elections to be held in three years’ time; democracy activists claim that China’s plans will allow it to screen out the candidates it doesn’t want.

It should be remembered, however, that for 155 years until its handover to China in 1997, Hong Kong was a British colony, forcibly taken from China at the end of the first opium war. All its 28 subsequent governors were appointed by the British government. Although Hong Kong came, over time, to enjoy the rule of law and the right to protest, under the British it never enjoyed even a semblance of democracy. It was ruled from 6,000 miles away in London. The idea of any kind of democracy was first introduced by the Chinese government. In 1990 the latter adopted the Basic Law, which included the commitment that in 2017 the territory’s chief executive would be elected by universal suffrage; it also spelt out that the nomination of candidates would be a matter for a nominating committee.

This proposal should be seen in the context of what was a highly innovative – and, to westerners, completely unfamiliar – constitutional approach by the Chinese. The idea of “one country, two systems” under which Hong Kong would maintain its distinctive legal and political system for 50 years. Hong Kong would, in these respects, remain singularly different from the rest of China, while at the same time being subject to Chinese sovereignty. In contrast, the western view has always embraced the principle of “one country, one system” – as, for example, in German unification. But China is more a civilisation-state than a nation-state: historically it would have been impossible to hold together such a vast country without allowing much greater flexibility. Its thinking – “one civilisation, many systems” – was shaped by its very different history.

In the 17 years since the handover, China has, whatever the gainsayers might suggest, overwhelmingly honoured its commitment to the principle of one country, two systems. The legal system remains based on English law, the rule of law prevails, and the right to demonstrate, as we have seen so vividly in recent days, is still very much intact. The Chinese meant what they offered. Indeed, it can reasonably be argued that they went to extremes in their desire to be unobtrusive: sotto voce might be an apt way of describing China’s approach to Hong Kong. At the time of the handover, and in the three years I lived in Hong Kong from 1998, it was difficult to identify any visible signs of Chinese rule: I recall seeing just one Chinese flag.

Notwithstanding this, Hong Kong – and its relationship with China – was in fact changing rapidly. Herein lies a fundamental reason for the present unrest: the growing sense of dislocation among a section of Hong Kong’s population. During the 20 years or so prior to the handover, the territory enjoyed its golden era – not because of the British but because of the Chinese. In 1978 Deng Xiaoping embarked on his reform programme, and China began to grow rapidly. It was still, however, a relatively closed society. Hong Kong was the beneficiary – it became the entry point to China, and as a result attracted scores of multinational companies and banks that wanted to gain access to the Chinese market. Hong Kong got rich because of China. It also fed an attitude of hubris and arrogance. The Hong Kong Chinese came to enjoy a much higher standard of living than the mainlanders. They looked down on the latter as poor, ignorant and uncouth peasants, as greatly their inferior. They preferred – up to a point – to identify with westerners rather than mainlanders, not because of democracy (the British had never allowed them any) but primarily because of money and the status that went with it.

Much has changed since 1997. The Chinese economy has grown many times, the standard of living of the Chinese likewise. If you want to access the Chinese market nowadays, why move to Hong Kong when you can go straight to Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu and a host of other major cities? Hong Kong has lost its role as the gateway to China. Where previously Hong Kong was China’s unrivalled financial centre, now it is increasingly dwarfed by Shanghai. Until recently, Hong Kong was by far China’s largest port: now it has been surpassed by Shanghai and Shenzhen, and Guangzhou will shortly overtake it.

Two decades ago westerners comprised the bulk of Hong Kong’s tourists, today mainlanders account for the overwhelming majority, many of them rather more wealthy than most Hong Kong Chinese. Likewise, an increasing number of mainlanders have moved to the territory – which is a growing source of resentment. If China needed Hong Kong in an earlier period, this is no longer nearly as true as it was. On the contrary, without China, Hong Kong would be in deep trouble.

Understandably, many Hong Kong Chinese are struggling to come to terms with these new realities. They are experiencing a crisis of identity and a sense of displacement. They know their future is inextricably bound up with China but that is very different from embracing the fact. Yet there is no alternative: China is the future of Hong Kong.

All these issues, in a most complex way, are being played out in the present arguments over universal suffrage. Hong Kong is divided. About half the population support China’s proposals on universal suffrage, either because they think they are a step forward or because they take the pragmatic view that they will happen anyway. The other half is opposed. A relatively small minority of these have never really accepted Chinese sovereignty. Anson Chan, the former head of the civil service under Chris Patten, and Jimmy Lai, a prominent businessman, fall into this category, and so do some of the Democrats. Then there is a much larger group, among them many students, who oppose Beijing’s plans for more idealistic reasons.

One scenario can be immediately discounted. China will not accept the election of a chief executive hostile to Chinese rule. If the present unrest continues, then a conceivable backstop might be to continue indefinitely with the status quo, which, from the point of view of democratic change, both in Hong Kong and China, would be a retrograde step. More likely is that the Chinese government will persist with its proposals, perhaps with minor concessions, and anticipate that the opposition will slowly abate. This remains the most likely scenario.

An underlying weakness of Chinese rule has nevertheless been revealed by these events. One of the most striking features of Hong Kong remains the relative absence of a mainland political presence. The Chinese have persisted with what can best be described as a hands-off approach. Their relationship to the administration is either indirect or behind the scenes. Strange as it may seem, the Chinese are not involved in the cut and thrust of political argument. They will need to find more effective ways of making their views clear and arguing their case – not in Beijing but in Hong Kong.


China is Hong Kong’s future – not its enemy | Martin Jacques | Comment is free | The Guardian

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## terranMarine

The writing is on the wall, the movement is a sign of the desperateness of the US.
In the face of a rising China, the China pivot has not delivered the desired effect the Americans had dreamed of. So what are they currently after? Instability. I have to wonder whether the US is naive into believing it will succeed or just trying to slow China down as much as possible. Democracy/Freedom is just the superficial farce and nothing more than that, if these Westerners wish HK to become like Singapore which separated from Malaysia then they can keep on hallucinating. Trying to put a hold on HK's economy will not harm China's development, if at all, as the protest won't last that long. These brainwashed students will eventually resume class. Besides HK is not even the core of Mainland's economy, it's like a mosquito trying to sting though the tough elephant skin.

The western media has always enjoyed portraying Chinese government suppressing its own people. Since HK police has used tear gas, which is quite rare in HK demonstrations , the focus by these foreign medias is again suppression. For example UK and Japan have already expressed some concerns yet they know damn well it's a domestic issue. But you don't see these foreign leaders raising any issue if it happened in the US. We saw how peaceful Occupy crowd got smacked by cops using those nasty sticks. So did UK, Japan or any of its stooges raised their voices about Freedom/Democracy? These US dogs remained silent 

Sadly it's American business to sow chaos if any country is not some US dog. Well mighty China is not Libya, Iraq, Thailand, Ukraine where US can topple our government with accusations or bribe money. Just as Russia we are the Beast from the East, no one wants to fight us militarily. 
Bribe money? Nah, it might work on Ukraine with Nuland's boasting of of $5 bln so called "investments"
Student protest? Pfff just how many % is that of the total Chinese population?

Face it, it's not feasible because it is unrealistic. Witness the ascension of the Mighty Dragon along with the Russian Bear.

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## ayachyan

NiceGuy said:


> Times for u guys to say your last words before your beloved China going down and collapse wt HK
> 
> Begging for US's help in 1979 is one of your most stupid mistake, and now, u guys r paying for it.




GDP of Hong Kong by 1997 was 177.353 billions dollars, and by 2013 was 274.013 billions dollars.
absolutely HK economy has been growing since handover 1997.
while mainland GDP by 1997 was 952.653 billions dollars and by 2013 that was 9.24 trillions dollars. (it is trillion level !)
mainland grows almost 10 times but HK just twice.
it is not HK stop growing, it is mainland grows too damn rapidly !

PS: just for fun let's see our viet friends' data, it is 26.844 billions dollars by 1997 and 171.392 billions dollars by 2013. 
by the way, the GDP for Guangxi province(one of the provinces in China and also viet's good neighbor ) was 210.178 billions dollars by 2012. Guangxi is not the richest province in China though. 
viets, i give you some words, "find the right enemy before fighting".


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## Infra_Man99

The US arm, supply, and train the protesters and rebels in Syria, Ukraine, an Libya. The US media corporations and government agencies train and support the protesters in Hong Kong. 

In the US, Occupy Wall Street and Michael Brown protesters are arrested or forced to go home.

Rev. Osagyefo Uhuru Sekou was arrested in Ferguson Monday night as he rallied ministers calling for the arrest of Darren Wilson, the officer who shot Mike Brown.





I'm predicting the more China challenges the US petrodollar for international exchanges and reserves, the more China acquires precious metals and buys up natural resources, the more China trades with the world, and the more successful China becomes, the more desperate the Zionist West will act toward China. They frantically search for any domestic and international weaknesses to destabilize China.

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## Muzits

ayachyan said:


> GDP of Hong Kong by 1997 was 177.353 billions dollars, and by 2013 was 274.013 billions dollars.
> absolutely HK economy has been growing since handover 1997.
> while mainland GDP by 1997 was 952.653 billions dollars and by 2013 that was 9.24 trillions dollars. (it is trillion level !)
> mainland grows almost 10 times but HK just twice.
> it is not HK stop growing, it is mainland grows too damn rapidly !
> 
> PS: just for fun let's see our viet friends' data, it is 26.844 billions dollars by 1997 and 171.392 billions dollars by 2013.
> by the way, the GDP for Guangxi province(one of the provinces in China and also viet's good neighbor ) was 210.178 billions dollars by 2012. Guangxi is not the richest province in China though.
> viets, i give you some words, "find the right enemy before fighting".


oh plz don't take GX to compare with the shit VN,it's a shame of GX.GX is like one of the most backward province of China.and Guangxi has only half ppl of VN,GX's economy is much larger than VN,and GX's annual growth is about twice as VN,so the economy distance between GX and VN could only gets larger and larger.and even the most backward province of China,Guizhou's personal capital GDP is several times of VN,so plz don't take any province of China to compare with that piece of shit. = =


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## beijingwalker

> It should be remembered, however, that for 155 years until its handover to China in 1997, Hong Kong was a British colony, forcibly taken from China at the end of the first opium war. All its 28 subsequent governors were appointed by the British government. Although Hong Kong came, over time, to enjoy the rule of law and the right to protest, under the British it never enjoyed even a semblance of democracy. It was ruled from 6,000 miles away in London. The idea of any kind of democracy was first introduced by the Chinese government. In 1990 the latter adopted the Basic Law, which included the commitment that in 2017 the territory’s chief executive would be elected by universal suffrage; it also spelt out that the nomination of candidates would be a matter for a nominating committee.



the British didn't really give Hongkong democracy, China did.

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## Brainsucker

Oh my God, the good thread has become a flame war? time to pack my things and seek another better thread


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## William Hung

mrfly911 said:


> Do you know why there are many Korean Protestantism? They aided many Protestantism churches in VN.




How do they aid Protestants in VN? I think they just want to help VN to be developed like SK and US. I too want aid from them. 



Jlaw said:


> You're wrong friend. I drive a ten year old car, can buy a 50k car with no loan. I have an ancient nexus phone. You are saying those kids are better off?



My friend, it seems like you do not understand the meaning and essence of life. Why are you saving that 50k in your bank? Life is all about spending that money to drive the economy, to buy products to flaunt your wealth and status, then buy the updated products in every 6months cycle, if you don't have enough money, use your credit card or take out a loan. Oh, don't forget to get some plastic surgery to make your face match your status and wealth. Obey your president when he encourage consumers to spend their money, don't be like your grand parents and hide your money under your bed, thats why their generation was starving. Use every cents of your saving, the economy needs it. When you become a billionaires, you then don't need to be encouraged to spend all your money, you'll have the right to save them, preferably in a Swiss account or invest in assets in Monaco. But if you are middle and lower class, it is your responsibility to spend all your money to drive the economy. 

I hope I have thought you a bit more about the meaning about life.


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## Kolaps

ayachyan said:


> anyway , they made a big mistake, they should fund a ambitious and proactive people or institution. those student can't do anything except sitting and yelling. don't forget that you gain because you paid. CCP won the whole China because they fought and blood for it. 1.3 billions people only trust those is willing to pay a huge price for their faith.
> those protesters just want to eat a delicious feast without paying a bit. who will care them?



That because no older people want to join it.

Democracy can only find young people to be manipulated, thru the West control over HK school, with half of it are Christian school.


They actually want to establish something like in Taiwan.

Taiwan is 1000x more awesome than then the ugly HK.


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## jericho

Typical US, when they like something they say 'its for democracy' and when they hate something ' its unconstitutional' , I know people in HK who tell me all the time that it is an awesome place to live in. Hopefully HK and Beijing can make this thing work without Uncle Sam interfering


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## isro2222

full if Ego chinese people claiming hongkong people are poor.... even mexican fruit seller in america earns far more than rich chinese. china all of sudden feeling the pinch.... china used pakistan against india and now its seems karma making china pay for it.


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## DoTell

What's the difference between radical Islam and radical democracy? One kills hundreds the other kills hundreds of thousands. Both believe they know the truth and force others to be "believers". Both instigate violence and death and both promise elusive rewards (72 virgins vs "freedom").


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## DoTell

But look at the Indians and Vietnmese jumping up and down with joy, it must be good for Hong Kong, right?


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## The Unnamed

china should try confuchian subtleness and spread ccp coommunist propaganda in US too.

:Cheers:


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## kankan326

Kolaps said:


> That because no older people want to join it.
> 
> Democracy can only find young people to be manipulated, thru the West control over HK school, with half of it are Christian school.
> 
> 
> They actually want to establish something like in Taiwan.
> 
> Taiwan is 1000x more awesome than then the ugly HK.


You sound like N. Koreans who proudly say " The whole world admire us!" Have you ever been anywhere outside the little Taiwan island?

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## rashid.sarwar

My question is that, why isn't china closing the US embassy or personal support/funding the chaos..


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## Brainsucker

rashid.sarwar said:


> My question is that, why isn't china closing the US embassy or personal support/funding the chaos..



China just need doing "Persona no Grata" to some of US NGO in Hongkong. Closing the embassy will cause more harm than good for China Interest

I think the best course for the Government is letting those kids to do what they want until they bored. As long as they don't rob any shops, destroying public assets, and harm other people, let them be.

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## ayachyan

i think i saw this baldy on Ted. 
80% of hongkongers know that, but they are silent because they can't leave their job position. they have to work for their city as always. they are the foundation of hong kong economy.
and the 20% stupid students and those unemployee. i think i am happy to walk and yell around to earn some money to pay my bill if i am unemployment.


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## Infra_Man99

The US organization, National Endowment for Democracy (NED), publicly admitted it spends hundreds of thousands of US dollars per year on promoting "human rights" and democracy or majority tyranny in Hong Kong.

The NED has these 3 public programs in Hong Kong:

*American Center for International Labor Solidarity*
_$139,532_

*Hong Kong Human Rights Monitor*
_$155,000_

_*National Democratic Institute for International Affairs*
$460,000_

Website: China (Hong Kong) | National Endowment for Democracy


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## terranMarine

Is that amount supposed to disrupt the HK government? Is US getting poor or what?  
It's like throwing a bone to a bunch of hungry dogs, the Vietcongs fit this category better IMO

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## terranMarine

just heard some student calling CY to resign due to use of tear gas and among other reasons, not too bright that kid

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## Lure

Economy is one of the most important issues that people care for. HK has robust infrastructure, and a GDP per capita that is not even imaginable for many Asian nations. Therefore one can think that status quo is very favorable.

If a group wants to break a favorable status quo, they are simply marginalized. That's why pro-democracy camp may actually get a huge backfire from those protests.

However Beijing should immediately try to reduce the tension, since high tension causes groups to stick with their camps much devotedly. Hence, even if they fail the public support, they will become more and more aggressive and create more trouble in the future. You want such things to "disappear" not stubbornly go on even when they are defeated.


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## Infra_Man99

terranMarine said:


> Is that amount supposed to disrupt the HK government? Is US getting poor or what?
> It's like throwing a bone to a bunch of hungry dogs, the Vietcongs fit this category better IMO



That's just the official or public numbers for ONE organization from the US operating in Hong Kong. We do not know the net total cost of public operations and secret operations by MULTIPLE organizations from the US operating in Hong Kong.

Anyhow, the US media, US corporations, and US government are trying to get rid of these pro-Palestine protesters in the US:

* Pro-Palestine protesters blockade Israeli ship in California *

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## Imbored

Well, let them be. I do not think they may make much of a difference by those naive students. I'm sure most of them even don't know what the interest of Hong Kong is. They are so easy to be instigated to fight for "democracy" which may finally do harm to themselves. Any political revolution should be carried carefully and gradually.

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## TheMatador

Put the traitors in prison and kidnap USA intelligence agents in HK.

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## 帅的一匹

The Central goverment shall apply iron hands to those traitors immediately .

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## Hamartia Antidote

Hmm...either everybody is vastly underestimating the power of the US Government or vastly overestimating its power.

One one hand people say it is completely inept and can't figure out how to show people how to cross the street on their own. 

On the other hand people claim it is so powerful it can in short order and with a snap of the finger brainwash thousands of people to join ISIS or thousands of HK citizens to protest China.

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## mike2000

No surprise there, as I said, it's geo politics baby.


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## Borr

missionary retards at their best.

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## Zsari

Peter C said:


> Hmm...either everybody is vastly underestimating the power of the US Government or vastly overestimating its power.
> 
> One one hand people say it is completely inept and can't figure out how to show people how to cross the street on their own.
> 
> On the other hand people claim it is so powerful it can in short order and with a snap of the finger brainwash thousands of people to join ISIS or thousands of HK citizens to protest China.



You know it's always much easier to create problems rather than to solve them.

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## TheMatador

Occupy Wall Street now!

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## TheMatador

Jlaw said:


> Hey NiceGuy, do you have a hard on for Joshua Wong? You post his pics on every thread?


He hopes Joshua Wong wants a mail order Viet groom

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## Jlaw

Black Flag said:


> How do they aid Protestants in VN? I think they just want to help VN to be developed like SK and US. I too want aid from them.
> 
> 
> 
> My friend, it seems like you do not understand the meaning and essence of life. Why are you saving that 50k in your bank? Life is all about spending that money to drive the economy, to buy products to flaunt your wealth and status, then buy the updated products in every 6months cycle, if you don't have enough money, use your credit card or take out a loan. Oh, don't forget to get some plastic surgery to make your face match your status and wealth. Obey your president when he encourage consumers to spend their money, don't be like your grand parents and hide your money under your bed, thats why their generation was starving. Use every cents of your saving, the economy needs it. When you become a billionaires, you then don't need to be encouraged to spend all your money, you'll have the right to save them, preferably in a Swiss account or invest in assets in Monaco. But if you are middle and lower class, it is your responsibility to spend all your money to drive the economy.
> 
> I hope I have thought you a bit more about the meaning about life.



I used it to put down for an investment property and it up $90k in one year. Will rent it out and sell it later lol. Unlike most people i don't want to work until 70...i want freedom from corporate slavery.
I do enjoy life as i travel every year.

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## dropithard

LONDON: China's Communist Party has warned of "unimaginable consequences" if demonstrations by pro-democracy campaigners in Hong Kong continue. 

The threat, made in the party-run People's Daily, came as China's government appeared to be losing patience with the protesters, who have threatened to occupy government buildings unless the city's chief executive, Leung Chun-Ying, resigns by the end of today (Thursday). 

An editorial read on state TV called for people to support the government's efforts to "deploy police enforcement decisively" and "restore the social order in Hong Kong as soon as possible". 

Amid the heightened tensions, Lord Patten, the last British governor of Hong Kong, accused Beijing of breaching its commitments to Hongkongers, made before the territory was returned to China in 1997.

READ ALSO

Hong Kong protesters defy Beijing

US, China air differences over Hong Kong protests 

Lord Patten said Beijing was undermining the so-called "one country, two systems" agreement, which affords the people of Hong Kong a degree of autonomy and freedoms not enjoyed by those in mainland China. "[The Chinese] said these matters were within the autonomy of the Hong Kong government and they are now reneging on that," he said, adding that there must now be "a new period of genuine consultation" over democratic reform. 

Officials in Hong Kong tried to celebrate the 65th birthday of the People's Republic of China. The first day of October, or National Day, marks the Communist Party's creation of China in its current form and means a two-day holiday for Hongkongers, and usually an influx of mainland tourists to its shopping precincts.


Pro-democracy protesters hold umbrellas in Hong Kong 

Leung said at a flag-raising ceremony: "We hope that all sectors of the community will work with the government in a peaceful, lawful, rational and pragmatic manner... and make a big step forward in our constitutional development." 

But the ceremony, at Bauhinia Square on Hong Kong Island's waterfront and only a short walk from the protest's epicentre, attracted demonstrators who booed Mr Leung, before turning their backs for his address. 

One protest leader, Lester Shum, of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, said there was "no room for dialogue" with Mr Leung because he had ordered police to fire tear gas at demonstrators. "Leung Chun-ying must step down. If he doesn't resign by tomorrow, we will step up our actions, such as by occupying several important government buildings," he said. 

Local councillor Paul Zimmerman waved an umbrella, a symbol of the city's democracy movement. He said he did so "because it stands against the shooting of tear gas at the children of Hong Kong".


A defaced sign is seen in the occupied main street outside of the government complex in Hong Kong 

Oscar Lai, a spokesman for the student group Scholarism, said: "We are not celebrating the 65th anniversary of China. With the present political turmoil in Hong Kong and the continued persecution of human rights activists in China, I think today is not a day for celebrations, but rather a day of sadness." 

Official worries about the disruption even affected celebrations in Beijing — in fairly comical style. There, the 10,000 doves to be released at sunrise in Tiananmen Square had their feathers and anuses checked for dangerous materials, according to state-run media.
The ‘umbrella revolution’: China warns Hongkongers of ‘unimaginable consequences’ if protests continue - The Times of India

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## The Unnamed

dropithard said:


> *Bauhinia* Square



The next Tiananmen.

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## TheMatador

The Unnamed said:


> The next Tiananmen.


Yes! We can see the newest tanks in action! No pity on the traitors.

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## TaiShang

Wow. What a language. Looks like slums and malnutrition in India do not deserve any popular action. The article blows the issue out of context as there is no such threat or anything.

Meanwhile...

*PRC more confident, reform-minded on 65th founding anniversary*
By Meng Na 

On the 65th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China (PRC), thecountry and its ruling party have reasons to be more confident and reform-minded.

Looking back at the past 65 years, China has made great progress in raising social productivity and overall national strength. *China now is the world's second-largest economy and the world's largest goods-trading nation.

The Chinese people have experienced a historic leap forward from poverty to having adequate food and clothing and a life of moderate prosperity.

More importantly, China has blazed and broadened the path of socialism with Chinese characteristics, translating socialism into a successful path and institutional system.*

China, with a 5,000-year-old civilization and the world's largest population, should not andhas not rigidly copied other countries' model of development.

China has to seek its own road of development, and the achievements made over the past 65 years testify that the country has sought a correct and suitable path for development under the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) and in pursuit of sustainable development, peaceful development and further reform and opening-up.

On the 65th anniversary of the founding of the PRC, the country also faces challenges andarduous tasks.

*The world's largest developing country will remain in the primary stage of socialism forquite a long time. China's development is still unbalanced and uncoordinated with asignificant urban-rural gap and income gap.

To tackle those problems, the country and the ruling party need to continue to pushforward reform and opening-up.*

Since the 18th CPC National Congress, which was convened in November 2012, thecountry has been vigorous in transforming its development mode and adjusting itseconomic structure, as well as in advancing reform in the financial sector, college entranceexams, the household registration system and the medical care system, among others.

The ruling CPC has vowed to take down both "flies and tigers" -- junior and high-rankingofficials who take bribes, steal assets and illicitly enrich themselves and their families.

The CPC announced in July an investigation into Zhou Yongkang, a former StandingCommittee member of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, the latest andhighest ranking "tiger" in the anti-corruption campaign's crosshairs.

On Sept. 30, the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee released a statement announcing that the fourth plenary session of the CPC 18th Central Committee, which is set to discuss rule of law, will be held from Oct. 20 to 23.

This will be the first time a plenary session of the CPC Central Committee has taken rule oflaw as its central theme. And rule of law is a must if the country wants to build aprosperous society and comprehensively deepen reform.

*All in all, the 65th anniversary of the PRC's founding seems a new start for further reformand exploration of socialism with Chinese characteristics.*


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## Europa

TheMatador said:


> Yes! We can see the newest tanks in action! No pity on the traitors.



wouldn't it be wiser to sabotage it instead of open confrontation ?

had i been in charge, i would have sabotaged it in a way that the protesters would have become hostile to usa. you just got to be notoriously innovative and cunning to deal with protests, for me its just a kid's play


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## Viet

the website of xinhua is not reachable since yesterday. that is not a good sign.


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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> the website of xinhua is not reachable since yesterday. that is not a good sign.



From here, which is not China, both are available. Check with your government.

And "not a good sign" for what? 

新华网_传播中国 报道世界

Xinhua – China, World, Business, Sports, Entertainment, Photos and Video | English.news.cn


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> the website of xinhua is not reachable since yesterday. that is not a good sign.



as always you are full of sh!t

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## The Unnamed

TheMatador said:


> Yes! We can see the newest tanks in action! No pity on the traitors.



What will you do from Shanghai when the tanks roll in HK ? Overthrow CCP from Mainland ? 

Explain to the democracy protestors how life is beautiful under CCP in Mainland. They seem to disagree !

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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> From here, which is not China, both are available. Check with your government.
> 
> And "not a good sign" for what?
> 
> 新华网_传播中国 报道世界
> 
> Xinhua – China, World, Business, Sports, Entertainment, Photos and Video | English.news.cn


not from germany


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## TaiShang

By the way, this is the article the Indian above talked about:


 
*China Voice: Cherish HK's development, maintain long-term prosperity*

BEIJING, Oct. 2 (Xinhua) -- The illegal gatherings of the Occupy Central movement instigated by some people in Hong Kong do not promote democratic and constitutional development in the special administrative region. Instead, they are ruining it.


Occupy Central has triggered protests in Hong Kong's busiest areas for days since Sept. 28, leading to serious traffic disruption, temporary closures of schools and banks, and a slump in the benchmark Hang Seng Index, impacting the region's economic development and international reputation.

The illegal activities have undermined rule of law, which is Hong Kong's core value and one of its foundations.

The Aug. 31 decision made by the National People's Congress (NPC) Standing Committee on Hong Kong's electoral system is in line with the Basic Law and has heeded opinions from all walks of life in Hong Kong, thus carrying unshakable legal status and force.

The decision granted universal suffrage in the selection of the HKSAR's chief executive on the basis of nomination by a "broadly representative" committee.

A commentary carried by Thursday's People's Daily, the flagship newspaper of the Communist Party of China (CPC), said Occupy Central has put the political appeals of a handful of people above the law and hijacked the public opinion of Hong Kong for private ends.

It is understandable that different people may have different ideas about a desirable reform package. The government respects the people's rights to express their views.

*The public is encouraged to express its aspirations peacefully, rationally and lawfully, and to respect and accommodate different views in society.

Occupy Central, however, is not a form of communication, but confrontation.

It will not force the central government to back down.*

*The movement shakes the core values of Hong Kong and its spirit of rule of law, disrupts social order, and hinders the realization of the prospective chief executive election through "one person, one vote" in 2017.*

When meeting with a Hong Kong delegation late last month, Chinese President Xi Jinping said the central government's basic principle and policy toward Hong Kong has not changed and *will not change.*

The central government will unswervingly implement the policy of "One Country, Two Systems" and the Basic Law, and support the steady development of democracy in Hong Kong, Xi said.

As the "constitutional foundation" for implementing universal suffrage in the chief executive election, the NPC decision complies with Hong Kong's realities and is conducive to safeguarding national sovereignty, security and development and the region's long-term stability and prosperity.

People from all circles in Hong Kong should value the region's steady development and work to support the regional government's efforts to maintain social stability and ensure sound constitutional development.


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## Europa

China warns Hong Kong protesters of ‘unimaginable’ consequences - The Washington Post

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> as always you are full of sh!t


well, western media speculate the PLA garnison in HK and armed police stationed in Guangdong could rush in and restore the order. Beijing believes the HK police seems to be unwilling to "do" the job.


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## wolfschanzze

*Meet 17-year-old Joshua Wong: Central figure in Hong Kong protests*
Chris Buckley & Alan Wong,NYT News Service | Oct 2, 2014, 05.02 AM IST



HONG KONG: The slight teenager with heavy rectangular glasses and a bowl cut stood above the ocean of protesters who had engulfed downtown Hong Kong. His deep voice was drowned out by cheers, but the crowd did not mind: They knew him and his message. It was Joshua Wong, a 17-year-old student activist who has been at the center of the democracy movement that has rattled the Chinese government's hold on this city.

"When I heard the national anthem starting to play, I certainly did not feel moved so much as angry," Wong said a few hours later, after a protest at a flag-raising ceremony on Wednesday morning to mark the Chinese National Day holiday. "When it tells you, 'Arise! All those who refuse to be slaves!' — why is our treatment today any different from the slaves?"

Wong emerged as a figure in Hong Kong's activist circles two years ago, when he rallied students against a government plan to introduce "patriotic education" in schools, attacking it as a means of Chinese Communist Party indoctrination. He played a pivotal role in setting off the demonstrations of the past week, leading a surprise charge on a government building that resulted in his arrest and prompted thousands to take to the streets ahead of schedule. Local newspapers with close ties to Beijing have sought to smear him as a tool of the United States.

In reality, Wong is troubling confirmation for the authorities that the first generation in Hong Kong to grow up under Chinese rule is by many measures also the one most alienated from Beijing's influence. He was born less than nine months before this former British colony's handover to China in 1997, and raised here at a time when the party has tried mightily to win over people here and shape them into patriotic Chinese citizens.






_Joshua Wong addresses a rally in Hong Kong on September 26, 2014. (File photo)_

His prominence in the protest movement also embodies a shift in politics here — youth anger amplified over the Internet, beyond the orbit of traditional political parties — that has confounded the local government and infuriated its Communist supervisors in the mainland.

That shift has made something of a political star of Wong, who comes across as a hybrid of a solemn politician and a bashful teenage sensation. These days, if he is not surrounded by admiring supporters, he is usually mobbed by television cameras and reporters. Even before the most recent round of protests, strangers would sometimes approach him to shake hands or offer a pat on his shoulders and ask about his exam scores and schoolwork.

Wong is keenly aware of the influence that he and his classmates wield. As early as July, well before Beijing proposed the election rules that are the target of the current demonstrations, Wong told The New York Times in an interview, "Electoral reform is a generational war."

Chen Yun-chung, an associate professor of cultural studies at Lingnan University in Hong Kong, said Wong and his generation of high school activists, combining idealism and organizational skills, had outflanked both the government and the older, more cautious generations of democrats in Hong Kong.

"Their mentality is very different from the older generation, so I call them mutants, in a good sense, like the X-Men," he said. "There is always a danger of an even harsher crackdown that will scare the hell out of Hong Kong people. But at the same time, I don't think these mutant leaders are just daydreamers. They know that they might not get what they want, but most of them are prepared to fight on."

Wong represents a "culture of resistance that is idealistic and very persistent among the high school students," he added.

But few expected Wong to have such a critical impact on events this past week. The democracy movement had appeared to be flagging, and students who had been boycotting classes were planning to mark the end of their campaign quietly on Friday night with a showing of video messages of support from Taiwanese activists.

As the video ended, Wong, speaking on the stage beside the screen, took many in the audience by surprise by urging them to seize "Civic Square," the name that activists use for a forecourt to the Hong Kong government headquarters. Moments later, about 200 protesters eluded guards and took the square to loud cheers. Wong, however, was arrested before he made it and was dragged away in handcuffs.

News and images of Wong's arrest spread quickly on social media, and the occupation of the forecourt became the nucleus of a protest that attracted tens of thousands of supporters. The police attempted to break up the demonstration on Sunday with arrests, pepper spray and tear gas, provoking more public anger and bringing even larger crowds onto the streets, which have been occupied since.

The authorities held Wong for two nights before a judge granted a habeas corpus petition for his release.

Lee Cheuk-yan, the 57-year-old chairman of the pro-democracy Labor Party, said he was both stunned and heartened by the outpouring of youthful protest in the streets in the following days.

"You look at the faces here, and they are very young," Lee said as he stood on a platform where he had been speaking to a vast crowd on Tuesday night. "The old men will die, but the young will live on. They will beat them."

He then resumed speaking to the young crowd through a loud speaker, and repeated his comment to a roar of approval.

Wong, who is just shy of his 18th birthday, when he will gain the right to drink alcohol, is a veteran of theatrical protest politics. While in high school, at age 14, he and a classmate formed a youth group, Scholarism, to fight the "patriotic education" plan proposed by Beijing's handpicked leader in Hong Kong, Leung Chun-ying.

At first, their Internet-based movement was seen by many residents as quaintly naive, but as more students joined, it became a potent force in the campaign against the curriculum changes. After big street protests in 2012, the Hong Kong government shelved the plan. Since then, Scholarism has been a major force in promoting demands for democratic elections that would allow voters to nominate candidates for the city leader, and it promoted a student boycott of classes last week.

"If you told people five years ago that high school students would get involved in politics, they wouldn't have believed you," he told The Times in July. "For students, what we have is persistence in our principles and stubbornness in our ideals," he said, adding, "If students don't stand in the front line, who will?"





_A protester_

Hong Kong's news media has treated him with some of the intensity that it usually devotes to film and pop idols. In July, interest was so high in Wong's university entrance exam score that he held a news conference. (Wong's score turned out to be middling by Hong Kong's rigorous standards, and he has enrolled in a local university that specializes in distance learning.)

Wong has said that he acquired his passion for politics from his parents, Grace and Roger Wong, Protestants who kindled a concern for social injustice and have said they are proud of their son but otherwise stay out of the spotlight.

Wong and the wave of youthful protest he has helped inspire are much less open to compromise than the traditional democracy camp in Hong Kong — a rift that may widen if the Chinese government offers only mild concessions and the protests continue. He did not respond to repeated calls and messages seeking an interview.

In an interview earlier this year with a Hong Kong online publication, Wong argued that "compromising before you even begin fighting is illogical."

"I have no problems with negotiating," he added. "But before doing that, you better have some bargaining chips. If you don't have that, how do you fight a war?"

Meet 17-year-old Joshua Wong: Central figure in Hong Kong protests - The Times of India


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## TaiShang

WP article:


> It warned that if the protesters continue, the “consequences will be unimaginable.”



Spin baby spin. After all, sheeple will chew and digest it with little critical thinking.

As it happens, "the unimaginable consequences" within the context of the entirety of article published in various Chinese newspaper, relates to the troubled economic situation due to the problems the protests creates for the normal activity of business there. 

This has been voiced by China from the very beginning.


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## Europa

what will happen now? deadline gone

TASS: World - Deadline set by Hong Kong protesters to Chinese authorities expires


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> well, western media speculate the PLA garnison in HK and armed police stationed in Guangdong could rush in and restore the order. Beijing believes the HK police seems to be unwilling to "do" the job.



i was talking about xinhua not being accessible moron in reply to your post #6

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> i was talking about xinhua not being accessible moron in reply to your post #6


I already replied in post #10. you are a moron. my previous post you commented was a reply for post #3.


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## Europa

HK police warn protesters not to charge buildings - Fairfield Citizen

soon this will turn into syria kind of mess


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## beijingwalker

In China, Shrugs and Sneers for Hong Kong Protesters
The mainland has had a rocky relationship with the special city for years -- and it's showing.

BY DAVID WERTIME
OCTOBER 2, 2014
In China, Shrugs and Sneers for Hong Kong Protesters

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## William Hung

Europa said:


> what will happen now? deadline gone
> 
> TASS: World - Deadline set by Hong Kong protesters to Chinese authorities expires



Nothing, they will go back to school and go back to work. Or they could continue to protest a little bit more, until they get bored, run out of money, etc.



Europa said:


> HK police warn protesters not to charge buildings - Fairfield Citizen
> 
> soon this will turn into syria kind of mess



Not really, no killings or atrocities will occur, against the wish of some third party observers. The police is not happy because they are feeling sorry for the low paid cleaners who will eventually have to clean up all the mess.

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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> I already replied in post #10. you are a moron. my previous post you commented was a reply for post #3.



sure you replied in post #10 after i said you were talking crap in my post #8
Since i'm in EU as well how come i can have access to it and you don't? The Great Firewall blocks Germany and allow the rest of EU to have access?

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## dray

Will history repeat itself!!

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## northeast

Europa said:


> HK police warn protesters not to charge buildings - Fairfield Citizen
> 
> soon this will turn into syria kind of mess


Nah，you are a lunatic.Hongkongers are mild people，thay are a crowd of sheep.Even in the darkest day under the rule of british colonists，the most they dare do is just some useless protests.But I do hope these traitors would get exterminated.

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## Europa

Black Flag said:


> Nothing, they will go back to school and go back to work. Or they could continue to protest a little bit more, until they get bored, run out of money, etc.
> 
> Not really, no killings or atrocities will occur, against the wish of some third party observers. The police is not happy because they are feeling sorry for the low paid cleaners who will eventually have to clean up all the mess.



china can do some movie shooting before it gets out of control 

send some special trained agents (male and female) wearing what the protesters have put on so that they can easily mingle with the protesters, let them carry british flags, chanting anti china slogans in cantonese, now they should make way to the government building, storm into the main government building, shoot the standing guards and then go inside, shoot some officials, even leung, all this should be in front of media live tv telecast 

don't worry, all the bullets should be rubber bullets, and there need to be some fake blood 

once done, reason to make one china is manufactured. now you know what to do next


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## William Hung

DRAY said:


> View attachment 104186
> 
> 
> View attachment 104187
> 
> 
> View attachment 104188
> 
> 
> View attachment 104189
> 
> 
> Will history repeat itself!!



I find it sad that some third party observers are hoping that death of civilians and bloodshed will take place. 



Europa said:


> china can do some movie shooting before it gets out of control
> 
> send some special trained agents (male and female) wearing what the protesters have put on so that they can easily mingle with the protesters, let them carry british flags, chanting anti china slogans in cantonese, now they should make way to the government building, storm into the main government building, shoot the standing guards and then go inside, shoot some officials, even leung, all this should be in front of media live tv telecast
> 
> don't worry, all the bullets should be rubber bullets, and there need to be some fake blood
> 
> once done, reason to make one china is manufactured. now you know what to do next



Why even bother? the protest will eventually dissolve by itself. 

If I know you in person, I would definitely make a bet with you.

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## dray

Black Flag said:


> I find it sad that some third party observers are hoping that death of civilians and bloodshed will take place.



Not 'hoping', but 'fearing'.


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> sure you replied in post #10 after i said you were talking crap in my post #8
> Since i'm in EU as well how come i can have access to it and you don't? The Great Firewall blocks *Germany *and allow the rest of EU to have access?


I can tell you one secret, pls don´t tell others. I don´t know about other european countries, but chinese law requires german companies with offices in China must maintain dedicated firewall or proxy infrastructure to prevent chinese employees to have access to "certain" resources. you can guess the rest.


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## northeast

DRAY said:


> Not 'hoping', but 'fearing'.


Nope，It's hoping.If you fear something，you won't push it so hard.

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## Europa

Black Flag said:


> Why even bother? the protest will eventually dissolve by itself.
> 
> If I know you in person, I would definitely make a bet with you.



what if it does not dissolve by itself ? just imagine the consequences 

there are many many other ways to sabotage a mass movement btw


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## William Hung

DRAY said:


> Not 'hoping', but 'fearing'.



I am telepathic. I saw with my third eye that you were "hoping" and "wishing" it would be so. While you're typing that post, your spirit had this expression: 



Europa said:


> what if it does not dissolve by itself ? just imagine the consequences
> 
> there are many many other ways to sabotage a mass movement btw



I just quickly imagined, and yes, they will dissolve. They are only humans, not robot and machines. Even if they are robots, they would still need to stop for maintenance inspection. 

Think about all those "occupy" protest. They dissolved eventually, no need for any government to set up any sabotage.

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## dropithard

The exiled leader of China's Uighur minority believes the large-scale protests roiling Hong Kong are inspiring people in her home region of Xinjiang, in comments likely to rile Beijing.
Rebiya Kadeer told Foreign Policy that how the Hong Kong protests play out could have far-reaching implications for the Uighur people in far-western China.

The Hong Kong protests were "very inspiring" to Uighurs, Kadeer, who leads the World Uyghur Congress, was quoted as saying in an interview on the magazine's website.
"If Hong Kong wins, it will benefit Uighurs as well, and then the Uighurs can strengthen their own movement."
Days of peaceful demonstrations in Hong Kong have seen tens of thousands of people take to the streets as they call on Beijing to grant free elections to the semi-autonomous city.

Kadeer said she believed the international attention on Hong Kong meant a violent conclusion to the protests was unlikely.
"The people of Hong Kong - they struggle in a very peaceful way," she said.
"The Chinese government couldn't oppress them with brute force," added Kadeer, 67, who spent 11 years behind bars in China before being allowed to go into exile in the United States in 2005.
Xinjiang, a resource-rich region which abuts Central Asia, is home to about 10 million Uighurs, who mostly follow Sunni Islam.
The region has seen escalating violence which in the past year has spilled over into other parts of China.
China blames unrest in the region on organized terrorists influenced by religious extremists and groups abroad.

Hong Kong protests 'inspiring China's Uighurs' - Telegraph


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## Brainsucker

There is one thing that make Hongkong is different than Xinjiang. Hongkong is a "one country two system", while Xinjiang is fully under PRC system.


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## Snomannen

"...who leads the *World Uyghur Congress...*"

Thank you for mentioning it at the beginning so I can save my time from reading this bs.

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## northeast

I do hope they protest instead of killing innocent people.But It's unlikely that terrorists would stop killing and go protesting，would they？

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## longyi

Rebiya Kadeer is a terrorist leader! 

How ironic these western medias, who champion anti terrorist actions, give her a platform to speak.

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## beijingwalker

swelling ranks of Hong Kong protesters demanding more of a say in their city's future have inspired wide admiration among Western observers for their peacefulness, their cleanliness, and their democratic aspirations. But among mainland Chinese, they are largely seen as "alarmist," "coerced," "exploited by political forces," or just plain "spoiled." 

On Oct. 1, the anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China -- three days after Hong Kong police shocked student-led pro-democracy protesters by sending tear gas canisters into peaceful crowds -- a consensus was emerging among Chinese netizens who care about what's happening in Hong Kong that protesters there are more worthy of derision, or at least skepticism, than applause.

Despite the fact that many related terms have been censored and mainstream Chinese media has been largely mute on the topic -- instructions leaked on Sept. 28order outlets to "clear away" information about Hong Kong students "violently assaulting the government" -- it's easy to find discussion of Hong Kong on major Chinese social platforms. The results are unlikely to please those who support the democratic aspirations of many residents of Hong Kong, a former British colony that's now a special administrative region of China. 

One popular item on massive mobile chat platform WeChat dated Sept. 29 and titled "Who does Hong Kong belong to?" seems best to grasp the zeitgeist. It includes extreme language (it calls some Hong Kongers "English running dogs"), but also lists some arguments likely to be found among mainstream opponents of Hong Kong's protests. This includes the popular (if hard to prove) complaint that Hong Kongers' tax payments do not find their way to Beijing, and a discussion of Hong Kong's reliance on the mainland for resources, given that the city does indeed source over 70 percent of its potable water and 90 of its fresh meat and vegetables from mainland China. The article argues that China has stuck assiduously to its "one country, two systems" agreement, allowing Hong Kong an independent judiciary, legislature, and executive. But the article also repeats the unproven notion that protesters are pushing for Hong Kong's independence -- because, it holds, some held up the Hong Kong colonial-era flag -- and because they used "violent means" to surround the Hong Kong government headquarters.

Weibo, China's Twitter-like platform, provides another barometer for public opinion. One user wrote, "If Hong Kongers keep making trouble, Chinese and foreign investors will lose confidence, Hong Kong's status as a free port will fall, and capital will possibly be withdrawn.... It will be like Hong Kong freely handing capital over to Shanghai." A conservative lawyer named Wu Danhong wrote that "those making a stink for no reason are the minority; the majority already understands that Hong Kong isn't a colony anymore. There's no market for Hong Kong independence, and no support. Those willing to act as anti-China pawns are shooting themselves in the foot."

The use of the term "market" -- and the invocations of Shanghai, mainland China's financial capital and its showcase city -- aren't accidental. Hong Kong once used to be the only way for foreigners to invest in China, its famously glistering city lights providing a constant reminder to its dark communist neighbor of the fruits of free trade. Now, its reported GDP is only 74 percent of Shanghai's, and an August reportby a Chinese government-affiliated think tank argued (perhaps self-servingly) that Hong Kong was in danger of becoming a "second-tier" city by 2022. An article posted Aug. 18 to discussion forum Tianya titled "Hong Kong's problem: It's the economy, stupid!" cited overcrowding from mainland visitors and rising prices as the root causes of Hong Kong's discontent. It has been circulated widely as of late. "Eighty percent of those in the lower and middle classes have too hard a time of it, and they are naturally letting their anger out on the Hong Kong and Central governments," wrote the unnamed author.

Anti-protest arguments espousing order, loyalty, and patriotism (or nationalism) are also easy to find. There are the traditional worries, frequently invoked by Beijing, that democracy breeds chaos. One personwrote, "If Hong Kong descends into anarchy, or splits into a few small warring states, no one's democratic dreams will be realized. If there's no national framework, then there's no democracy to speak of." Then there are complaints that allowing Hong Kong to dictate to Beijing would be allowing the tail to wag the dog. A vocal user on the Hong Kong question calling himself "unsilent majority" wrote, "The right to decide the Basic Law is no longer with Hong Kongers. You'd best abide by the law and behave yourself." The "unsilent majority" asked, "Do you have the power to destabilize us? Six million isn't enough." There are also frequent invocations of patriotism. Noting that one wellspring of dissent is Beijing's stated requirement that any Chief Executive "love China," one user asked, "Is it so wrong to ask that the Chief Executive love his country? Should there really be a region of China led by someone who doesn't?"

Among those many discussing Hong Kong, arguably no one made a bigger splash in Chinese cyberspace than John Ross, a British academic now affiliated with Renmin University of China, a prestigious school in Beijing. Ross wrote on Weibo that Western coverage of the recent protests has been "too hypocritical." (In a sign of the times, the academic then appended an animated, vomiting emoticon.) Ross also wrote, correctly, that during its colonial rule the U.K. had never permitted Hong Kongers to vote for the head of their government. "The system China has set up for Hong Kong is much more democratic," Ross argued. Over 133,000 accounts shared the message, and over 34,000 wrote in; of those comments, most were supportive.

Ross's critique was popular in part because he wondered aloud why the United States was expressing support for the protestors. (The White House has stated that the United States "supports universal suffrage in Hong Kong in accordance with the basic law" as well as "the aspirations of the Hong Kong people.") A vocal but not negligible minority genuinely believes that foreign forces are behind recent events. A widely circulating article, originally penned in June and republished Oct. 1 on 163.com, a major news portal, ably summarizes the attitude of some Chinese conservatives toward Hong Kong. The accusation-packed piece, called "Who really is the black hand behind Hong Kong independence?" begins, "Recently, _gangdu_"-- Chinese for Hong Kong separatists, who do not appear to actually be a driving force behind the current protests -- "have been happily making trouble, and behind it is an America hoping to push [the movement] to its height." It goes on to name a great many bogeymen: Paul Wolfowitz, the National Endowment for Democracy, George Soros, and the CIA.The article accuses the West of making "cultural products" in a "war of ideals" that it then foists on unsuspecting overseas populations. The goal, the article declares, is to then "stimulate Taiwanese independence, Xinjiang independence, and Tibetan independence" to cause "multiple troubles for China, making China unable to pay attention to its great power struggle with the United States."

It is tempting to chalk this fulmination against Hong Kongers and their alleged Western puppet masters to China's massive censorship apparatus, which makes it difficult (though by no means impossible) to view certain Western mainstream and social media sites like Facebook, Twitter, and the _New York Times_, while scrubbing heterodox content from Chinese social media sites in order to clear room for state-controlled messages. Some of the anti-Western rhetoric is old, and well-worn among regimes beyond China's. But sentiment toward Hong Kong isn't fully explained by the fact that state service Xinhua called Occupy Central, one organization behind the demonstrations, a "shame on the rule of law" in an Oct. 1 editorial, or that on the same day, Communist Party mouthpiece _People's Daily _warned of "unimaginable" consequences should protests continue. After an electronic petition to the White House to "support Hong Kong democracy and prevent a second Tiananmen massacre in Hong Kong" garnered over 196,000 signatures, and the White House responded by essentially repeating its talking points, one Weibo user circulated an image of the administration's reply, since deleted from Weibo by censors. Comments did not evince gratitude that a veil had been lifted; instead, the most up-voted posts mocked the American response.

The surprisingly harsh rhetoric toward Hong Kongers traces to antipathy that's been growing for some time. To many in the mainland, the Hong Kong pro-democracy protest looks like an effort to push the mainland away. After all, tensions between the two have been running high for years. Hong Kongers organized en masseagainst a proposed anti-subversion law in July 2003, then againstmainland efforts to install a "moral and national education" curriculum in July 2012. (It's conventional wisdom that the Hong Kong government, under Beijing's thumb, cannot and will not budge an inch to protesters' demands now. But in both previous cases, it eventually caved.)

And those are just the substantive disagreements. Hong Kongers and mainlanders have traded much more personal barbs as well, in many cases the result of friction between city residents, who number about 7 million, and mainland tourists, who numbered over 40 million in 2013 alone, often overwhelming city resources and leading to frequent run-ins. In January 2012, conservative mainland pundit-professor Kong Qingdong called Hong Kongers "dogs" on an online news show, infuriating the city. Not to be outdone, in February 2012, a spat about subway etiquette metastasized into an unfortunate meme, authored by young Hong Kongers, that likened mainland visitors to locusts. Such tiffs have continued. On April 22, Foreign Policy reported on the ferocious social media fallout after the mainland Chinese parents of a child caught relieving himself on a Hong Kong street got into a videotaped scuffle with angry witnesses. (The article says the child "urinated," although FP's beleaguered copy editor received multiple demands that we correct the record to reflect a defecation. FPwas unable to dispatch a correspondent to conduct a forensic follow-up.)

That's not to say thousands -- perhaps millions -- of Chinese don't support Hong Kong protestors, either openly or silently. Public intellectuals have grown fond of writing about Hong Kong in code, often referring to the "Pearl of the Orient," a 1991 song written in praise of Hong Kong, or saying they are "buying an iPhone" as they beam back pictures from protest sites. Some activists have openly stated their support on WeChat using a hashtag that means "holding fast to freedom in the rain." In one comment, later deleted, a Weibo user complained, "A lot of people are saying Hong Kong is having trouble because the economy is declining. This focus on the economy is the mental habit of people used to sitting tight and being slaves." Multiple Oct. 1 posts showed massive crowds packing the downtown district Admiralty on the evening of national day -- "what beautiful night scenery," mused one. Those quickly got the axe too.

But perhaps most frustrating -- or foreboding -- to supporters of Hong Kong's universal suffrage movement is just how many Chinese feel removed from the historic events in city's business and shopping districts, as protestors camp near buildings as likely to be named Melbourne Plaza and Wheelock House as Yook Ming or Takshing. To most mainlanders, Hong Kong and its eclectic, English- and Cantonese-speaking inhabitants feel very far away. State media carries strident editorials, but they are few; a reader not looking for news about Hong Kong might not find it. And those who do may not care. One Weibo userwho describes himself as a "patriot" was almost blasé: "Last time in Hong Kong, I took my child to Disney World. If there's no Hong Kong" -- that is, if Hong Kong is destroyed -- "I can take them to the one in Tokyo. Next
----------------------------------------------
Hongkong's GDP now is only 74 percent of Shanghai's and is also much smaller than Beijing's. Many Mainland Chinese argue to hand Hongkong's preferential economic treatment or policies over to Shanghai.


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## beijingwalker

*This protest will go nowhere without the public support from Mainland China.*


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## Kolaps

^
Democracy will say differently if the protest is the Islamic protester in the heart of London.

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## Imbored

WuMaoCleverbot said:


> View attachment 104500


Actually do you think there will be another Tiananmen? I do believe anyone with basic intelligence will agree no more Tiananmen there will be , for all the politics and international reasons. It's just like laughing at a rich man for his former poverty.

And as for what the unimaginable consequences are , pitifully I failed to find out any words connected to the called "unimaginable consequences" at the website of xinhuanet and people' daily. The only consequence the "Occupy Central" will lead to is to hurt Hong Kong itself, making HK a second-class city in China.

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## Aepsilons

I hope that the situation in Hong Kong resolves peacefully, soon. This is affecting our confidence.


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## kankan326

This woman has 10 sons and daughters. In the mean time, normal Han families can only have one kid. Uighurs as minority have many privileges compared to Hans in education, career and other economy aspects. China even offers Muslims meat subsidies considering the high prices of beef and mutton. But nothing can stop them complaining.

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## Imbored

TheMatador said:


> I want to see another Tiananmen. Type 99A2 tanks crushing traitors make me so proud! I heard the situation is out of control. The HK police is unreliable. PLA must roll in! Take no prisoners. Have no mercy.


but considering the current situation , it's impossible to have that again. That would be a great excuse for the west to impose sanctions on China.And we can't afford to see that. Now we need development most.


Nihonjin1051 said:


> I hope that the situation in Hong Kong resolves peacefully, soon.


I completely agree with you on this point. but I think the reports about the "unimaginable consequences" are exaggerating the attitude of Beijing.So the protest will probably end up in a peaceful way while Beijing won't change her attitude and decision.

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## TheMatador

Imbored said:


> but considering the current situation , it's impossible to have that again. That would be a great excuse for the west to impose sanctions on China.And we can't afford to see that. Now we need development most.
> 
> I completely agree with you on this point. but I think the reports about the "unimaginable consequences" are exaggerating the attitude of Beijing.So the protest will probably end up in a peaceful way while Beijing won't change her attitude and decision.


I would love to see sanctions. USA will collapse into chaos overnight. Xi Jinping can take the opportunity to clean house.


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## kolinsky

Hongkong? Is that our business? We are in celebration. We are busy in traveling and shopping. Do we have time?

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## Aepsilons

Imbored said:


> I completely agree with you on this point. but I think the reports about the "unimaginable consequences" are exaggerating the attitude of Beijing.So the protest will probably end up in a peaceful way while Beijing won't change her attitude and decision.



Agreed. And I would like to say these Hong Kong protesters do not represent the entire city of Hong Kong SAR. It would be unfair to punish the entire city for the civil disobedience of some several thousands. For me, I don't care if they protest, as they have right to protest under their 1 country 2 system. The point is, they should protest in a area where they do not congest traffic, and cause a halt in businesses. The protesters shouldn't affect others in their political rants.



kolinsky said:


> Hongkong? Is that our business? We are in celebration. We are busy in traveling and shopping. Do we have time?



Of course it is a concern since Hong Kong is a component city of P.R.C.

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## Brainsucker

TheMatador said:


> I want to see another Tiananmen. Type 99A2 tanks crushing traitors make me so proud! I heard the situation is out of control. The HK police is unreliable. PLA must roll in! Take no prisoners. Have no mercy.



Well, I agree with you as long as you are the first sacrifice in the 2nd Tianamen. I want to see the Type 99A crushing you on the road. Wow, that will be cool

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## TheMatador

I believe the HK police are disloyal and will join or arm the protestors soon. PLA air strike on HK police headquarter is needed now.

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## Aepsilons

Brainsucker said:


> Well, I agree with you as long as you are the first sacrifice in the 2nd Tianamen. I want to see the Type 99A crushing you on the road. Wow, that will be cool



Well said. Any person that talks about the killing of people should taste their own medicine. It behooves me that a Chinese poster could so callously talk about murdering their own fellow "Chinese" in such a way.

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## beijingwalker

TheMatador said:


> I believe the HK police are disloyal and will join or arm the protestors soon. PLA air strike on HK police headquarter is needed now.


Is that a joke..


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## TheMatador

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Well said. Any person that talks about the killing of people should taste their own medicine. It behooves me that a Chinese poster could so callously talk about murdering their own fellow "Chinese" in such a way.


They are terrorists. Anti-terrorism attack needed now.

As late as yesterday I thought this would blow over but I heard from friend today it's very serious.


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## TheMatador

beijingwalker said:


> Is that a joke..


Yesterday I thought it would blow over. Today I heard from friend it's very serious. A "solution" without bloodshed leaves tumor to stay and grow. Must extract.


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## Aepsilons

TheMatador said:


> They are terrorists. Anti-terrorism attack needed now.
> 
> As late as yesterday I thought this would blow over but I heard from friend today it's very serious.



I believe you need to look over the Webster's Dictionary to understand what a Terrorist is. These Hong Kong protesters are not terrorists, they are pro-democracy folks that are utilizing civil disobedience. There is no comparison to them and the Uighyur terrorists in Xinjiang who go about knifing innocents and kill. These Hong Kong protesters are not blowing themselves up, killing people.

There are, obviously, dichotomies between civil disobedience participants and terrorists. Please brush up on the difference.

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## Aepsilons

TheMatador said:


> I believe the HK police are disloyal and will join or arm the protestors soon. PLA air strike on HK police headquarter is needed now.



You understand that you're ridiculous, right?


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## TheMatador

Nihonjin1051 said:


> You understand that you're ridiculous, right?


I am like Spock. Pragmatic and cold. Needs of many outweigh needs of few. According to my friend the situation is getting out of hand. HK government already failed when protestors shut down the patriotic education program a few years ago. Give them an inch they take a mile. Ergo today.


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

TheMatador said:


> I believe the HK police are disloyal and will join or arm the protestors soon. PLA air strike on HK police headquarter is needed now.



Fighting too many bulls have made you too blood thirsty. The situation will blow away into the wind when the kids get bored and their parents call them home.

The media is making too much of this nonsense.



TheMatador said:


> I am like Spock. Pragmatic and cold. Needs of many outweigh needs of few. According to my friend the situation is getting out of hand. HK government already failed when protestors shut down the patriotic education program a few years ago. Give them an inch they take a mile. Ergo today.



Pragmatic and cold?

Rather hot blooded and impetuous. The Chinese way is to wait.

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## Aepsilons

TheMatador said:


> I am like Spock. Pragmatic and cold. Needs of many outweigh needs of few. According to my friend the situation is getting out of hand. HK government already failed when protestors shut down the patriotic education program a few years ago. Give them an inch they take a mile. Ergo today.



No. You're not being like Spock, because Spock would rather sacrifice himself in order to save a planet. Spock was selfless and merciful. You, on the other hand, would rather kill innocent civil disobedience participants. These people are still your fellow Han Chinese, they are educated, well versed in lit (I'm assuming since Hong Kong has one of the best educational systems in the entire Asia-Pacific). China's handling of the situation , with restraint and consideration, will show case to the world of her as a responsible power. 

PS. Your proposal resembles actions of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Pragmatic and cold?
> Rather hot blooded and impetuous. The Chinese way is to wait.



Agreed !

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## TheMatador

Nihonjin1051 said:


> No. You're not being like Spock, because Spock would rather sacrifice himself in order to save a planet. Spock was selfless and merciful. You, on the other hand, would rather kill innocent civil disobedience participants. These people are still your fellow Han Chinese, they are educated, well versed in lit (I'm assuming since Hong Kong has one of the best educational systems in the entire Asia-Pacific). China's handling of the situation , with restraint and consideration, will show case to the world of her as a responsible power.
> 
> PS. Your proposal resembles actions of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed !


You are Confucian. I am legalist. Punishment only way to keep people in line. If Hu Jintao was in power, protest would be over already. HK would be independent. Lucky Xi Jinping thinks like me!


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## Aepsilons

TheMatador said:


> You are Confucian. I am legalist.



That's the reason why the Qin Dynasty collapsed after the death of Qin Shi Huang Di. Whereas the Confucian Lit is what defined China for over 2,000 years, and influenced the civilizations of East Asia. It was Confucianism that helped Chinese Culture one of the most glorious in the known world. Master Kong Zi reminds us to espouse *君子*. Be the superior man in righteousness...!


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## GeHAC

随便说对那帮脑残动武是政治智商低下的表现，CCP要是连这点能力都没有还和美帝斗个毛线。CCP目前为止还是很自信的。
What CCP need to do is to raise the silence majority‘s politics attention.It must be clear that this issue is not concerned with those abstract idealogy like democracy but national unity and Hong Kong's future.Remember,Chinese nation is a very realistic nation,people's corcerning on politics is only linked tightly with practical benefits.CCP must swift its propaganda strategy in time to show them the necessity and benefits to follow the central government's reformation programme "on the table".


Personally speaking,I think CCP should be ready for future political progress in any aspects.


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## GeHAC

Singkiang‘s situation is different,what a joke to make a comparison.


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## TheMatador

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I believe you need to look over the Webster's Dictionary to understand what a Terrorist is. These Hong Kong protesters are not terrorists, they are pro-democracy folks that are utilizing civil disobedience. There is no comparison to them and the Uighyur terrorists in Xinjiang who go about knifing innocents and kill. These Hong Kong protesters are not blowing themselves up, killing people.
> 
> There are, obviously, dichotomies between civil disobedience participants and terrorists. Please brush up on the difference.


Tibetans are terrorists too, even when they only burn themselves. 

The Hong Kong protesters are not only terrorists but also traitors on the payroll of foreign governments.

Justice for them is *death *


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## jha

Pure BS. Uighurs deserve whats happening there. Knifing people in crowd, setting off bombs, Attacking policemen... These terrorists deserve to be thrashed.

As much as HK is concerned, I hope no force is used.

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## TheMatador

The Hong Kong triads must come out in favor of the Beijing government. The young people will obey the triads.

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## Huaren

stop all those crazy talk about threat or violence, a compromise will be made between HK government and the protest leaders. In the begining those who lead the protesters want to make a deal, make outragerous demand is good in making better deal when both parties meet "in between" aka 漫天要价，坐地还钱. Now those middle school students are quite useful for public sympathy / support, next time I suppose they will make good use of primary school pupils.

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## qwerrty

Brainsucker said:


> There is one thing that make *Hongkong is different than Xinjiang. Hongkong is a "one country two system"*, while Xinjiang is fully under PRC system.



and they don't indiscriminately chopping and blowing people up

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## Fukuoka

traffic-stands-still-as-tens-of-thousands-of-protesters-jam-the-main-street-leading-to-the-financial











Toronto




Sydney









protesters-flee-from-teargas-fired-by-riot-police-during-clashes-after-thousands-of-protesters-block


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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong residents celebrate National Day*

A special carnival has been held in Hong Kong’s Victoria Park, to mark China’s National Day Holiday. Despite the current protests over democratic reform, many Hong Kong residents said they were proud of being part of "one China" and just hoped for a peaceful resolution to the current stand-off. 

"I want to pass on knowledge of my country to my children. We are all one China. We need to let our children know that China is now very great," a Hong Kong resident said.

"We want to show our positive power. We all agree that we are Hong Kong residents but we belong to China. We’re not alone. We’re looking for a better Hong Kong," a Hong Kong resident said.

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## Genesis

while I don't support them......


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## AgentOrange

beijingwalker said:


> swelling ranks of Hong Kong protesters demanding more of a say in their city's future have inspired wide admiration among Western observers for their peacefulness, their cleanliness, and their democratic aspirations. But among mainland Chinese, they are largely seen as "alarmist," "coerced," "exploited by political forces," or just plain "spoiled."
> 
> On Oct. 1, the anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China -- three days after Hong Kong police shocked student-led pro-democracy protesters by sending tear gas canisters into peaceful crowds -- a consensus was emerging among Chinese netizens who care about what's happening in Hong Kong that protesters there are more worthy of derision, or at least skepticism, than applause.
> 
> Despite the fact that many related terms have been censored and mainstream Chinese media has been largely mute on the topic -- instructions leaked on Sept. 28order outlets to "clear away" information about Hong Kong students "violently assaulting the government" -- it's easy to find discussion of Hong Kong on major Chinese social platforms. The results are unlikely to please those who support the democratic aspirations of many residents of Hong Kong, a former British colony that's now a special administrative region of China.
> 
> One popular item on massive mobile chat platform WeChat dated Sept. 29 and titled "Who does Hong Kong belong to?" seems best to grasp the zeitgeist. It includes extreme language (it calls some Hong Kongers "English running dogs"), but also lists some arguments likely to be found among mainstream opponents of Hong Kong's protests. This includes the popular (if hard to prove) complaint that Hong Kongers' tax payments do not find their way to Beijing, and a discussion of Hong Kong's reliance on the mainland for resources, given that the city does indeed source over 70 percent of its potable water and 90 of its fresh meat and vegetables from mainland China. The article argues that China has stuck assiduously to its "one country, two systems" agreement, allowing Hong Kong an independent judiciary, legislature, and executive. But the article also repeats the unproven notion that protesters are pushing for Hong Kong's independence -- because, it holds, some held up the Hong Kong colonial-era flag -- and because they used "violent means" to surround the Hong Kong government headquarters.
> 
> Weibo, China's Twitter-like platform, provides another barometer for public opinion. One user wrote, "If Hong Kongers keep making trouble, Chinese and foreign investors will lose confidence, Hong Kong's status as a free port will fall, and capital will possibly be withdrawn.... It will be like Hong Kong freely handing capital over to Shanghai." A conservative lawyer named Wu Danhong wrote that "those making a stink for no reason are the minority; the majority already understands that Hong Kong isn't a colony anymore. There's no market for Hong Kong independence, and no support. Those willing to act as anti-China pawns are shooting themselves in the foot."
> 
> The use of the term "market" -- and the invocations of Shanghai, mainland China's financial capital and its showcase city -- aren't accidental. Hong Kong once used to be the only way for foreigners to invest in China, its famously glistering city lights providing a constant reminder to its dark communist neighbor of the fruits of free trade. Now, its reported GDP is only 74 percent of Shanghai's, and an August reportby a Chinese government-affiliated think tank argued (perhaps self-servingly) that Hong Kong was in danger of becoming a "second-tier" city by 2022. An article posted Aug. 18 to discussion forum Tianya titled "Hong Kong's problem: It's the economy, stupid!" cited overcrowding from mainland visitors and rising prices as the root causes of Hong Kong's discontent. It has been circulated widely as of late. "Eighty percent of those in the lower and middle classes have too hard a time of it, and they are naturally letting their anger out on the Hong Kong and Central governments," wrote the unnamed author.
> 
> Anti-protest arguments espousing order, loyalty, and patriotism (or nationalism) are also easy to find. There are the traditional worries, frequently invoked by Beijing, that democracy breeds chaos. One personwrote, "If Hong Kong descends into anarchy, or splits into a few small warring states, no one's democratic dreams will be realized. If there's no national framework, then there's no democracy to speak of." Then there are complaints that allowing Hong Kong to dictate to Beijing would be allowing the tail to wag the dog. A vocal user on the Hong Kong question calling himself "unsilent majority" wrote, "The right to decide the Basic Law is no longer with Hong Kongers. You'd best abide by the law and behave yourself." The "unsilent majority" asked, "Do you have the power to destabilize us? Six million isn't enough." There are also frequent invocations of patriotism. Noting that one wellspring of dissent is Beijing's stated requirement that any Chief Executive "love China," one user asked, "Is it so wrong to ask that the Chief Executive love his country? Should there really be a region of China led by someone who doesn't?"
> 
> Among those many discussing Hong Kong, arguably no one made a bigger splash in Chinese cyberspace than John Ross, a British academic now affiliated with Renmin University of China, a prestigious school in Beijing. Ross wrote on Weibo that Western coverage of the recent protests has been "too hypocritical." (In a sign of the times, the academic then appended an animated, vomiting emoticon.) Ross also wrote, correctly, that during its colonial rule the U.K. had never permitted Hong Kongers to vote for the head of their government. "The system China has set up for Hong Kong is much more democratic," Ross argued. Over 133,000 accounts shared the message, and over 34,000 wrote in; of those comments, most were supportive.
> 
> Ross's critique was popular in part because he wondered aloud why the United States was expressing support for the protestors. (The White House has stated that the United States "supports universal suffrage in Hong Kong in accordance with the basic law" as well as "the aspirations of the Hong Kong people.") A vocal but not negligible minority genuinely believes that foreign forces are behind recent events. A widely circulating article, originally penned in June and republished Oct. 1 on 163.com, a major news portal, ably summarizes the attitude of some Chinese conservatives toward Hong Kong. The accusation-packed piece, called "Who really is the black hand behind Hong Kong independence?" begins, "Recently, _gangdu_"-- Chinese for Hong Kong separatists, who do not appear to actually be a driving force behind the current protests -- "have been happily making trouble, and behind it is an America hoping to push [the movement] to its height." It goes on to name a great many bogeymen: Paul Wolfowitz, the National Endowment for Democracy, George Soros, and the CIA.The article accuses the West of making "cultural products" in a "war of ideals" that it then foists on unsuspecting overseas populations. The goal, the article declares, is to then "stimulate Taiwanese independence, Xinjiang independence, and Tibetan independence" to cause "multiple troubles for China, making China unable to pay attention to its great power struggle with the United States."
> 
> It is tempting to chalk this fulmination against Hong Kongers and their alleged Western puppet masters to China's massive censorship apparatus, which makes it difficult (though by no means impossible) to view certain Western mainstream and social media sites like Facebook, Twitter, and the _New York Times_, while scrubbing heterodox content from Chinese social media sites in order to clear room for state-controlled messages. Some of the anti-Western rhetoric is old, and well-worn among regimes beyond China's. But sentiment toward Hong Kong isn't fully explained by the fact that state service Xinhua called Occupy Central, one organization behind the demonstrations, a "shame on the rule of law" in an Oct. 1 editorial, or that on the same day, Communist Party mouthpiece _People's Daily _warned of "unimaginable" consequences should protests continue. After an electronic petition to the White House to "support Hong Kong democracy and prevent a second Tiananmen massacre in Hong Kong" garnered over 196,000 signatures, and the White House responded by essentially repeating its talking points, one Weibo user circulated an image of the administration's reply, since deleted from Weibo by censors. Comments did not evince gratitude that a veil had been lifted; instead, the most up-voted posts mocked the American response.
> 
> The surprisingly harsh rhetoric toward Hong Kongers traces to antipathy that's been growing for some time. To many in the mainland, the Hong Kong pro-democracy protest looks like an effort to push the mainland away. After all, tensions between the two have been running high for years. Hong Kongers organized en masseagainst a proposed anti-subversion law in July 2003, then againstmainland efforts to install a "moral and national education" curriculum in July 2012. (It's conventional wisdom that the Hong Kong government, under Beijing's thumb, cannot and will not budge an inch to protesters' demands now. But in both previous cases, it eventually caved.)
> 
> And those are just the substantive disagreements. Hong Kongers and mainlanders have traded much more personal barbs as well, in many cases the result of friction between city residents, who number about 7 million, and mainland tourists, who numbered over 40 million in 2013 alone, often overwhelming city resources and leading to frequent run-ins. In January 2012, conservative mainland pundit-professor Kong Qingdong called Hong Kongers "dogs" on an online news show, infuriating the city. Not to be outdone, in February 2012, a spat about subway etiquette metastasized into an unfortunate meme, authored by young Hong Kongers, that likened mainland visitors to locusts. Such tiffs have continued. On April 22, Foreign Policy reported on the ferocious social media fallout after the mainland Chinese parents of a child caught relieving himself on a Hong Kong street got into a videotaped scuffle with angry witnesses. (The article says the child "urinated," although FP's beleaguered copy editor received multiple demands that we correct the record to reflect a defecation. FPwas unable to dispatch a correspondent to conduct a forensic follow-up.)
> 
> That's not to say thousands -- perhaps millions -- of Chinese don't support Hong Kong protestors, either openly or silently. Public intellectuals have grown fond of writing about Hong Kong in code, often referring to the "Pearl of the Orient," a 1991 song written in praise of Hong Kong, or saying they are "buying an iPhone" as they beam back pictures from protest sites. Some activists have openly stated their support on WeChat using a hashtag that means "holding fast to freedom in the rain." In one comment, later deleted, a Weibo user complained, "A lot of people are saying Hong Kong is having trouble because the economy is declining. This focus on the economy is the mental habit of people used to sitting tight and being slaves." Multiple Oct. 1 posts showed massive crowds packing the downtown district Admiralty on the evening of national day -- "what beautiful night scenery," mused one. Those quickly got the axe too.
> 
> But perhaps most frustrating -- or foreboding -- to supporters of Hong Kong's universal suffrage movement is just how many Chinese feel removed from the historic events in city's business and shopping districts, as protestors camp near buildings as likely to be named Melbourne Plaza and Wheelock House as Yook Ming or Takshing. To most mainlanders, Hong Kong and its eclectic, English- and Cantonese-speaking inhabitants feel very far away. State media carries strident editorials, but they are few; a reader not looking for news about Hong Kong might not find it. And those who do may not care. One Weibo userwho describes himself as a "patriot" was almost blasé: "Last time in Hong Kong, I took my child to Disney World. If there's no Hong Kong" -- that is, if Hong Kong is destroyed -- "I can take them to the one in Tokyo. Next
> ----------------------------------------------
> Hongkong's GDP now is only 74 percent of Shanghai's and is also much smaller than Beijing's. Many Mainland Chinese argue to hand Hongkong's preferential economic treatment or policies over to Shanghai.



Interesting article. Basically game over for those Hong Kong protesters. You have maybe a few million Chinese traitors in Hong Kong but then you have over 1 billion Chinese patriots both on the mainland as well as in Hong Kong who are slowly getting sick and tired of their crap. The Chinese government knows it. The Hong Kong government knows it. Even western governments know it which is why their support for this "Occupy/Umbrella/whatever the hell" movement has been lukewarm at best. The only people that don't seem to know it are these retarded kids. But they will soon - when they flunk out of school and/or have trouble finding jobs down the road due to their association with treasonous anti-China activities.

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## Fukuoka

Shangai




London







Protesters, many holding cellphones on Monday night, blocked the main road to Hong Kong’s financial district




A protester put on a gas mask to prepare for a possible tear gas attack as hundreds of demonstrators blocked a main road in Hong Kong’s shopping district




The police walked down a stairwell as pro-democracy demonstrators gathered for a rally outside the Hong Kong government headquarters on Monday




Riot police fired tear gas on student protesters occupying streets surrounding the government headquarters early Monday




Police officers try to dispense the crowd near the government headquarters.


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## bobsm

TaiShang said:


> *Hong Kong residents celebrate National Day*
> 
> 
> 
> "I want to pass on knowledge of my country to my children. We are all one China. We need to let our children know that China is now very great," a Hong Kong resident said.
> 
> .



團結就是力量

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## Fukuoka




----------



## Europa

so it has finally begun 

*Hong Kong (CNN)* -- Hong Kong police and pro-democracy protesters faced off Friday morning outside the office of the city's chief executive -- the latest sign of simmering tensions in the city, even after the announcement of potential breakthrough talks.

The demonstrators blocked two vehicles, which authorities say contained food meant for police, from entering the premises of Chief Executive C.Y. Leung's office building. They chanted "shame" and "we don't trust you."

Several dozen police officers were at the scene carrying helmets, shields and, in a few cases, batons.

The confrontation comes amid intense pressure by the student-led movement for Leung's resignation. Yet he has refused do so, even warning amid protesters' threats to occupy government building that there will be "serious consequences" if police lines are crossed.


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## Fukuoka




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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Notice when we had protest in Pakistan there was no main front page coverage on CNN for it wonder why now

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## Europa

@TaiShang , is reporting this thread because he does not want to see the reality. 

to please him, one should always post rosy picture of china and avoid posting anything that defies such pictures. 






if this could only work in real life


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## TaiShang

Europa said:


> @TaiShang , is reporting this thread because he does not want to see the reality.
> 
> to please him, one should always post rosy picture of china and avoid posting anything that defies such pictures.
> 
> View attachment 105650
> 
> 
> if this could only work in real life



'Cause that's becoming repetitive and boring to the point of trolling the threads for the sake of flame-baiting. Now, if I created a thread with a title "Why India so dirty and stinky?" and posted from some veritable resources such as Reuters, would not that be a similar act of trolling?

Just as protests are going on in Central District of Hong Kong, China, so does India still stinky and dirty and unimaginably unhygienic. There would be no difference between the two threads in terms of getting attention, and creating war of words.

Now Indian, go back to your unhygienic democracy, say something if you have something new to say. 

Hence I request sir @Hu Songshan to take care of this troll @Fukuoka and clean his mess.

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## Kolaps

Europa said:


> so it has finally begun
> 
> *Hong Kong (CNN)* -- Hong Kong police and pro-democracy protesters faced off Friday morning outside the office of the city's chief executive -- the latest sign of simmering tensions in the city, even after the announcement of potential breakthrough talks.
> 
> The demonstrators blocked two vehicles, which authorities say contained food meant for police, from entering the premises of Chief Executive C.Y. Leung's office building. They chanted "shame" and "we don't trust you."
> 
> Several dozen police officers were at the scene carrying helmets, shields and, in a few cases, batons.
> 
> The confrontation comes amid intense pressure by the student-led movement for Leung's resignation. Yet he has refused do so, even warning amid protesters' threats to occupy government building that there will be "serious consequences" if police lines are crossed.



That is called politeness, everyone!

Shame on all of you here!!!

You guys need to learn about manner from 17 years old boys!


Come here, I will teach all of you about politeness! Naughty people!


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## FairAndUnbiased

Nihonjin1051 said:


> These people are still your fellow Han Chinese, they are educated, well versed in lit (I'm assuming since Hong Kong has one of the best educational systems in the entire Asia-Pacific). China's handling of the situation , with restraint and consideration, will show case to the world of her as a responsible power.



In general, they may be well educated in English, business, finance, media and (British) law.

However, also in general, they are not well educated in science, engineering, Chinese, literature and politics. Most HKers don't pursue such topics because they don't lead to the comparative strengths of the territory.

I'm not denigrating Hong Kong but lets be realistic here. They have their strengths, and weaknesses, and it makes no sense to exaggerate their strengths and ignore their weaknesses. That only leads people to arrogance, and arrogant people never check themselves before they wreck themselves, like the students right now.

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## Jlaw

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That's the reason why the Qin Dynasty collapsed after the death of Qin Shi Huang Di. Whereas the Confucian Lit is what defined China for over 2,000 years, and influenced the civilizations of East Asia. It was Confucianism that helped Chinese Culture one of the most glorious in the known world. Master Kong Zi reminds us to espouse *君子*. Be the superior man in righteousness...!


Not because of legalist , lol.


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## TaiShang

Europa said:


> so it has finally begun



No, it has not.

*HK government official to meet with Occupy Central students*

Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying announced late Thursday evening that *he will not resign and is appointing Chief Secretary Carrie Lam as government representative to talk with students participating in the ongoing Occupy Central movement.*

Leung and Lam held a short press conference at Government House in Central District minutes before a deadline set by students group which demands Leung's resignation.

Thousands of protesters blocked major roads in several districts in Hong Kong since Sept 28 to express discontent with electoral reform package for choosing the region's next leader.

Students issued an open letter asking for a meeting with the Chief Secretary on Thursday evening. Leung said the government has 

studied the letter in detail. Carrie Lam said she wished to contact students as soon as possible to arrange the meeting, but neither she or Leung gave a specific date.

Leung stressed that he will not resign, saying he will continue to work for promoting Hong Kong'sconstitutional reform which aims at universal suffrage to elect the region's next chief executive in 2017.

The Chief Executive said the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) government and the police force have shown the greatest patience and endurance in the past five days.

Leung hoped that all circles in society could continue to carry forward the constitutional reform in a pragmatic, rational and peaceful manner.


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## Fukuoka

Protesters sit under umbrellas at a main street at Mongkok shopping district after thousand of protesters blocked the road in Hong Kong October 1, 2014.




A protester sits under an umbrella as he attends a rally along a main street at Hong Kong's shopping district Tsim Sha Tsui October 1, 2014.




A protester holds up a placard which reads -Peace is our greatest weapon-, outside the venue of the official flag-raising ceremony for celebrations of China's National Day, in Hong Kong October 1, 2014.




Student protesters gather outside the venue of the official flag-raising ceremony for celebrations of China's National Day, in Hong Kong October 1, 2014.




Student protesters shout slogans outside the Golden Bauhinia Square, venue of the official flag-raising ceremony for celebrations of China's National Day, in Hong Kong October 1, 2014.




Protesters gather around the Golden Baihinia Square during an official flag raising ceremony to commemorate the Chinese National Day in Hong Kong, October 1, 2014.








Protesters, many holding cellphones on Monday night, blocked the main road to Hong Kong’s financial district.




A man cooked sausages for protesters, who are seeking fully democratic elections for Hong Kong’s leader in 2017




Police officers rested early Monday at the end of the first day of mass civil disobedience in Hong Kong


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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> No, it has not.
> 
> *HK government official to meet with Occupy Central students*
> 
> Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying announced late Thursday evening that *he will not resign and is appointing Chief Secretary Carrie Lam as government representative to talk with students participating in the ongoing Occupy Central movement.*
> 
> Leung and Lam held a short press conference at Government House in Central District minutes before a deadline set by students group which demands Leung's resignation.
> 
> Thousands of protesters blocked major roads in several districts in Hong Kong since Sept 28 to express discontent with electoral reform package for choosing the region's next leader.
> 
> Students issued an open letter asking for a meeting with the Chief Secretary on Thursday evening. Leung said the government has
> 
> studied the letter in detail. Carrie Lam said she wished to contact students as soon as possible to arrange the meeting, but neither she or Leung gave a specific date.
> 
> Leung stressed that he will not resign, saying he will continue to work for promoting Hong Kong'sconstitutional reform which aims at universal suffrage to elect the region's next chief executive in 2017.
> 
> The Chief Executive said the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) government and the police force have shown the greatest patience and endurance in the past five days.
> 
> Leung hoped that all circles in society could continue to carry forward the constitutional reform in a pragmatic, rational and peaceful manner.


Seriously? leung is a joke. All he had to do was instruct the teachers to continue their schedule. if students fail to show up for test, it's a fail. You don't need to negotiate...lol. 
Leung need to step down because he is sucks.

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## Fukuoka

Protesters also rested early Monday, as a wave of protest extended into the working week




A student pro-democracy protester covers his face in plastic wrap to protect against pepper spray




A woman shouts to a police officer as demonstrators block the main street to the financial Central district, outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong, September 29, 2014




Riot police fire teargas to disperse protesters after thousands of demonstrators blocked the main street to the financial Central district outside the government headquarters




A protester raises his umbrellas in front of tear gas which was fired by riot police to disperse protesters blocking the main street to the financial Central district








Protesters push a traffic barrier to block the main street to the financial Central in Hong Kong September 28, 2014.




A protester reacts in front of riot police during as fellow demonstrators blocked the main street to the financial Central district at Central in Hong Kong September 28, 2014.




Riot police fire tear gas to disperse protesters after thousands of protesters blocked the main street to the financial Central district outside the government hq


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## Fukuoka

Riot police walk in between tear gas to disperse protesters after thousands of protesters blocked the main street to the financial Central district outside the government




























The yellow ruban the symbol of the revolution


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## Fukuoka

In front of the Legislative Council




2 universitaries including Benny Tai and a priest, leaders of the Occupy movement


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## Europa

giving universal suffrage to the protesters will mean total separation of hong kong from china, it will compromise china's territorial integrity 

but not giving it will mean, the great dyslexia leader will continue this uprising 

meanwhile 

*8.50am:* The regular daily meeting of Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying with principal officials has been moved to Government House – Leung's official residence – *as the Tamar government headquarters has been besieged by protesters.*
*
*


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## Aepsilons

Huaren said:


> stop all those crazy talk about threat or violence, a compromise will be made between HK government and the protest leaders. In the begining those who lead the protesters want to make a deal, make outragerous demand is good in making better deal when both parties meet "in between" aka 漫天要价，坐地还钱. Now those middle school students are quite useful for public sympathy / support, next time I suppose they will make good use of primary school pupils.



Your post is sobering and has rectified my confidence in Chinese prudent thinking. Thanks.


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## Jlaw

Hk cops beat it, let the PLA handle this.

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## Aepsilons

FairAndUnbiased said:


> In general, they may be well educated in English, business, finance, media and (British) law.
> 
> However, also in general, they are not well educated in science, engineering, Chinese, literature and politics. Most HKers don't pursue such topics because they don't lead to the comparative strengths of the territory.
> 
> I'm not denigrating Hong Kong but lets be realistic here. They have their strengths, and weaknesses, and it makes no sense to exaggerate their strengths and ignore their weaknesses. That only leads people to arrogance, and arrogant people never check themselves before they wreck themselves, like the students right now.



That may be so. Anyways, I hope and pray for a peaceful resolution to this situation; for both the Chinese Government and the Hong Kong participants in this civil disobedience. I am never in favor of the use of wanton violence, when it can be solved diplomatically. Thank You for your clarification , too, on HK weaknesses and strengths. I appreciate the clarification/ correction.


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## AgentOrange

Jlaw said:


> Hk cops beat it, let the PLA handle this.



No need. In a week or two, the novelty of living like homeless squatters will wear off and they'll go home, having achieved nothing. The Chinese government is behaving perfectly correctly, IMO. The HK police have it all under control.

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## Europa

Jlaw said:


> Lol, a viet gook and stinky indian together at last.



hindi posters in hong kong

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## Jlaw

AgentOrange said:


> No need. In a week or two, the novelty of living like homeless squatters will wear off and they'll go home, having achieved nothing. The Chinese government is behaving perfectly correctly, IMO. The HK police have it all under control.


You're kidding right? Take a queue from Ferguson protest...that's how it should be handled. HK police are soft, they all need retraining by US cops.

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## Europa

just an old news

Hong Kong police chief’s suicide ‘nothing to do with Occupy Central’ | Coconuts Hong Kong

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## AgentOrange

Europa said:


> just an old news
> 
> Hong Kong police chief’s suicide ‘nothing to do with Occupy Central’ | Coconuts Hong Kong



Who controls Aksai Chin? I'm curious. The Indian army right? No? Shocker. Why are you still in PDF?

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## Europa

AgentOrange said:


> Who controls Aksai Chin? I'm curious. The Indian army right? No? Shocker. Why are you still in PDF?



the process is on. wait till winter which is coming, now lets be on topic


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## Aepsilons

TheMatador said:


> Tibetans are terrorists too, even when they only burn themselves.
> 
> The Hong Kong protesters are not only terrorists but also traitors on the payroll of foreign governments.
> 
> Justice for them is *death *




1. Tibetans are not terrorists, Tibetans in China are Chinese citizens and majority of the abide by the law as any other citizen of the PRC. Your wanton prejudice on an entire ethnic group surely does not represent the inclusivity that defines Chinese mentality.

2. Radical monks that self immolate do not represent a majority of the Tibetan people.

3. The Hong Kongers who are partaking in civil disobedience are not terrorists, merely exercising their right to voice out their opinion , which is afforded to them by the Hong Kong Government. For me, I may not agree with their choice to hold these protests and empathize with some business owners, private citizens on the effects on traffic, urban services. Still, this does not mean they deserve lethal punishment for voicing their opinions. These are well educated, behaved Han Chinese that are seeking a redress.

4. How China handles this, hopefully in a pragmatic and compromising nature, will shape how the world will see PRC in the coming decades. Is the PRC the same PRC as seen in Tiananmen Square or no? That is yet to be seen...

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> You're kidding right? Take a queue from Ferguson protest...that's how it should be handled. HK police are soft, they all need retraining by US cops.



No, handling the issue in a Ferguson-style is not the right attitude for the Chinese government. After all, these are some excited kids being played on behind the curtains by some big shot elites with vested interests in managing this economic suicide. Ferguson is the way the US handles its own discontent; has nothing to do with China.

Violence is not the way to solve the deadlock and this goes for both sides of the same nation.

China is not a violent regime like US or India.

Only patience, understanding, and compromise. China cannot compromise its sovereignty (including the likelihood of its sovereignty to be breached in some unseen future). Other than this, the protesters have a right to speak of any economic grievances that they may have. Understandably, economic competition within China is fierce and everybody strives to be the best, hence, probably, the Hong Kong people are feeling to be outcompeted.

We will sympathize with them.

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## Fukuoka

TaiShang said:


> 'Cause that's becoming repetitive and boring to the point of trolling the threads for the sake of flame-baiting. Now, if I created a thread with a title "Why India so dirty and stinky?" and posted from some veritable resources such as Reuters, would not that be a similar act of trolling?
> 
> Just as protests are going on in Central District of Hong Kong, China, so does India still stinky and dirty and unimaginably unhygienic. There would be no difference between the two threads in terms of getting attention, and creating war of words.
> 
> Now Indian, go back to your unhygienic democracy, say something if you have something new to say.
> 
> Hence I request sir @Hu Songshan to take care of this troll @Fukuoka and clean his mess.


..



Jlaw said:


> Lol, a viet gook and stinky indian together at last.


You 2 have too much hatred in you


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## manojb

‘Global Solidarity with Hong Kong’ rallies planned worldwide as Facebook turns yellow in support of protestors | South China Morning Post

*‘Global Solidarity with Hong Kong’ rallies planned worldwide as Facebook turns yellow in support of protestors*




Rallies in support of Hong Kong protesters who took to the street over the weekend to call for greater democracy have been held in multiple cities around the world, with more planned in the coming days.

全球聲援香港爭取真普選 United for Democracy: Global Solidarity with Hong Kong | Facebook


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## nvKyleBrown

TheMatador said:


> Yes! We can see the newest tanks in action! No pity on the traitors.


Against unarmed protesters, T-55s would look the same - like a tank running someone over. Where 1950-model Chinese tanks unable to do this?


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## Aepsilons

I think there is a huge dichotomy between Ferguson protesters and the city of Ferguson (an impoverished backwater class B component city in the United States) as compared to the Hong Kong (the financial center of the Orient), and the Hong Kong people (globally renowned for their education, social harmony, and social etiquette).

I will also add that Ferguson has a population of 21,000, whereas Hong Kong is a Metropolis of over 7 million souls. There is no comparison.


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## manojb

Global Solidarity with Hong Kong


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## TaiShang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I think there is a huge dichotomy between Ferguson protesters and the city of Ferguson (an impoverished backwater class B component city in the United States) as compared to the Hong Kong (the financial center of the Orient), and the Hong Kong people (globally renowned for their education, social harmony, and social etiquette).
> 
> I will also add that Ferguson has a population of 21,000, whereas Hong Kong is a Metropolis of over 7 million souls. There is no comparison.



I did not compare the economics or demographics of the two, my friend. I compared the way the two crises has been/are being handled. In that sense, in terms of protester behavior and government response, there is indeed a huge difference.


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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> No, handling the issue in a Ferguson-style is not the right attitude for the Chinese government. After all, these are some excited kids being played on behind the curtains by some big shot elites with vested interests in managing this economic suicide. Ferguson is the way the US handles its own discontent; has nothing to do with China.
> 
> Violence is not the way to solve the deadlock and this goes for both sides of the same nation.
> 
> China is not a violent regime like US or India.
> 
> Only patience, understanding, and compromise. China cannot compromise its sovereignty (including the likelihood of its sovereignty to be breached in some unseen future). Other than this, the protesters have a right to speak of any economic grievances that they may have. Understandably, economic competition within China is fierce and everybody strives to be the best, hence, probably, the Hong Kong people are feeling to be outcompeted.
> 
> We will sympathize with them.


This is not the right approach imo. These protestors are backed by foreign money they can be there for awhile. Maybe HK should suffer because they had it good for too long.


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## AgentOrange

Jlaw said:


> You're kidding right? Take a queue from Ferguson protest...that's how it should be handled. HK police are soft, they all need retraining by US cops.



IMO, a heavy handed approach will only swell the ranks of the retard protesters. Once you start using more force, innocent and loyal brothers and sisters will inevitably get hurt as well. Hong Kong isn't ferguson. Chinese people aren't blacks. There hasn't been any looting and there's been no real violence. Let's keep it that way even if we disagree with what those traitor protesters are saying.

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## manojb

Global Solidarity with Hong Kong


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## Aepsilons

TaiShang said:


> No, handling the issue in a Ferguson-style is not the right attitude for the Chinese government. After all, these are some excited kids being played on behind the curtains by some big shot elites with vested interests in managing this economic suicide. Ferguson is the way the US handles its own discontent; has nothing to do with China.
> 
> Violence is not the way to solve the deadlock and this goes for both sides of the same nation.
> 
> China is not a violent regime like US or India.
> 
> Only patience, understanding, and compromise. China cannot compromise its sovereignty (including the likelihood of its sovereignty to be breached in some unseen future). Other than this, the protesters have a right to speak of any economic grievances that they may have. Understandably, economic competition within China is fierce and everybody strives to be the best, hence, probably, the Hong Kong people are feeling to be outcompeted.
> 
> We will sympathize with them.



I agree with you 101%. Just because a local police department in the United States does something, does not mean it should be emulate by other police agencies. Excessive brutality in Ferguson is not something the United States , i'm sure, is proud of. And definitely not something the Chinese Leadership should consider "worthy of emulating". China is an Ascendant Power, with such power comes with responsibility, clout, ethical consideration. All eyes in Asia and the world will be looking at China to see if it is going to be the responsible and paternalistic entity that it espouses to be. Or will it be a brutal in its handling of Chinese citizens.

Afterall, as one friend told me, Hong Kongers are Chinese first, Hong Kongers second.

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## Jlaw

Rechoice said:


> Ya, hongkongers were native Nanyue people.


Really? My teacher said viets were monkeys, just not as loyal.

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## cnleio

Fukuoka said:


> https://defence.pk/attachments/********-dot-com-a9b_1412192743-120917044229-china-japan-protest-3-horiz_1412192758-jpg.105618/


Those pics not in HK protest, 1st background inside mainland of China street (Building Name: Simple Chinese not Tranditional Chinese using by HK), 2nd inside China SWAT & armed police (When HongKong has China armed police ??? ), 3nd is mainland anti-Japan protest (see title words) about DiaoYu island dispute. Pics link address tell truth, it's "xxx-china-japan-protest-xxx".

Using wrong pics hiden in dozens of issue pics, the West media's way.

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> This is not the right approach imo. These protestors are backed by foreign money they can be there for awhile. Maybe HK should suffer because they had it good for too long.



The foreign elements, if any, can be handled more silently and in a diplomatic, legal way. If there are agent-provocateurs (Indian, US or British or whatever), then, they can be deported or declared unwanted person. But, the protesters who are there for one reason or another with good, genuine intent, they need to be persuaded although this cannot mean China will allow any likelihood of breach of its sovereignty.

No body, in the end should get harmed but, I agree with you that, the foreigner elements will certainly be watched carefully. In that sense, I would even urge the dark-skinned (as they called themselves so) Indians to abstain from getting their pictures spread all over the internet.

There will be a criminal investigation for sure, after the protests end. Then, there will be legal consequences.

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## TaiShang

cnleio said:


> Those pics not in HK protest, 1st background inside mainland of China street, 2nd inside China SWAT & armed police (When HongKong has China armed police ??? ), 3nd is mainland anti-Japan protest (see title words) about DiaoYu island dispute.
> 
> Using wrong pics hiden in dozens of issue pics, the West media's way.



Please report the poster to the mods and webmaster *on account of flame-baiting and trolling using fake, non-related or repeated images* with the aim of creating mindless discussion and sowing hatred between various nations.

In the meantime, thank you for revealing the real face and intent of this dishonest and troll poster.

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## Europa

this video shows a standoff as protesters have blocked government buildings


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## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That may be so. Anyways, I hope and pray for a peaceful resolution to this situation; for both the Chinese Government and the Hong Kong participants in this civil disobedience. I am never in favor of the use of wanton violence, when it can be solved diplomatically. Thank You for your clarification , too, on HK weaknesses and strengths. I appreciate the clarification/ correction.


no violence needed, the government made this a HK issue, seems insignificant, but in the world of Chinese politics, once something is out of your hands it usually means they want nothing to do with that mess. 

If HK government wins, Beijing gets credit, if HK government fails, the blame is on HK government and Beijing stays clear. 

At this point even if Leung ask for the PLA, there is going to be 100 coincidental accidents that makes reaching the PLA in HK impossible.


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## Hiptullha

Amerika seems to be onl be getting support from disgusting hipster liberals


Europa said:


> hindi posters in hong kong



. Not a surprise.

Remnants of Sikh soldiers stationed to oppress the people during British rule?


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## TaiShang

cnleio said:


> Those pics not in HK protest, 1st background inside mainland of China street (Building Name: Simple Chinese not Tranditional Chinese using by HK), 2nd inside China SWAT & armed police (When HongKong has China armed police ??? ), 3nd is mainland anti-Japan protest (see title words) about DiaoYu island dispute. Pics link address tell truth, it's "xxx-china-japan-protest-xxx".
> 
> Using wrong pics hiden in dozens of issue pics, the West media's way.



Thank you, again, for revealing the real face and intent of the morally inconsistent poster.


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## Europa

a sign of relief, factionalism is growing among protesters


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## Cossack25A1

manojb said:


> ‘Global Solidarity with Hong Kong’ rallies planned worldwide as Facebook turns yellow in support of protestors | South China Morning Post
> 
> *‘Global Solidarity with Hong Kong’ rallies planned worldwide as Facebook turns yellow in support of protestors*
> View attachment 105774
> 
> Rallies in support of Hong Kong protesters who took to the street over the weekend to call for greater democracy have been held in multiple cities around the world, with more planned in the coming days.
> 
> 全球聲援香港爭取真普選 United for Democracy: Global Solidarity with Hong Kong | Facebook
> 
> View attachment 105773



It seems that the HK protest use yellow ribbon... for some in the PH though, it now has a negative connotation.


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## Rechoice

Jlaw said:


> I'm glad i'm not viet monkey. That crazy strangled chicken sound you guys make when u open your mouth is classic.



we are one nation in one state.

you are secondary citizen in China. Do you know this truth ? 

Hongkongers are better than you when they can say what they want.


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## beijingwalker

*Mainland China students shun Hong Kong protests*
October 2, 2014 2:28 pm

While thousands of Hong Kong students are boycotting classes to take part in the city’s democracy protests, many of their mainland Chinese classmates keep attending, with only a few heading to the streets.

Serina Su, a student at the University of Hong Kong, said she had not skipped classes because of a heavy workload in her final year. Despite her sympathy for the protesters, she says the movement is “doomed to fail”.

“It won’t cause any real threat to Beijing despite the current momentum,” she said. “China is so big and Hong Kong so tiny. Beijing won’t compromise – they think, ‘I am the big boss, I can do whatever I like’.”

According to students and professors who spoke to the Financial Times, most mainland Chinese students at Hong Kong’s main universities have been attending classes.

“Most of my students from mainland China remain silent on the issue, saying they don’t want to mix politics with studies,” said Yu Shuo, a professor at the Hong Kong Polytechnic University. “Even those who support the protests have been careful as they worry about possible political persecution if they go back [to mainland China].”

Under the “one country, two systems” principle, Hong Kong enjoys a much higher degree of freedom than mainland China. This exposes mainland Chinese students in the territory to issues that are widely censored back home, including the democracy movement.

While expressing cautious support for the movement, some mainland students, like Ms Su, see a bleak future for the protests.

Tracy Tong, another Chinese student at the HKU, says that although she supports democracy and freedom, the protesters lack pragmatic demands.

“Many people . . . keep shouting out their discontent and changing requests following the MC on the stage. But they don’t seem to know what they actually want, what they can achieve,” she said.

Her view is echoed by Mr Shi, a graduate student at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, who would only gave his surname.

“So many people are gathering there,” he said. “All are very passionate. But it looks like they make decisions by their emotions, not by their reason. And don’t forget: the Chinese government won’t concede.”

However, those who have first-hand experience of the protests think differently.

Zoe Zhao, a Chinese graduate student at CUHK, joined the protests from the start.

“I cherish Hong Kong for its freedom and good order,” she said. “Even if it’s a battle we can’t win, we still have to fight. Because there’s no other way out.”

She added that at least the world had now seen Hong Kong people protesting in a peaceful, disciplined and orderly way. “Have you seen this in other countries?”

Albert Sun, an HKU fresher, said that unlike Chinese students who are seeking a better education in Hong Kong, he came here mainly because of the democracy movement.

“Hong Kong was a bit boring before. It’s just an international financial centre. But with Occupy Central, it has become very interesting.”

Mr Sun thinks the protesters’ determination and an endless stream of resources will sustain the movement. More importantly, he said it would enlighten mainland visitors travelling to the city.

“When they see Hong Kong people fighting for true democracy, for universal suffrage, it will make them think about their environment, where they don’t even dare say whatever they truly think,” he said. “That’s not what the Chinese government wants to see.”
*http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b3a6fec4-49fd-11e4-bc07-00144feab7de.html#axzz3F2yRnium*


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## Europa

now through live telecast, let us see them organizing a mass rally against hong kong protesters


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## jkroo

Wow, I want to see how many people support illegal protest just like some people support terrorists from China.

HK really doesn't matter, HK is returning to its historic track. Maybe it's a crisis for HK's society and it's also an opportunity for HKers. We all trust HKer can resolve this independent ly. That's what we treat the protest. 

I am just watching foreign cheerleaders' show and their dirty tricks.Just have fun.

Cheerleaders, you should keep up, time is running out!

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## cnleio

I believe HongKong students need this very much !




















The more & the better

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## cnleio

SUPPORT HongKong students, they need this very much !



















The more & the better

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## Genesis

the world against China.

Pff, lighten up, that's a Tuesday for us.

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## Europa

Black Flag said:


> I am telepathic. I saw with my third eye that you were "hoping" and "wishing" it would be so. While you're typing that post, your spirit had this expression:
> 
> I just quickly imagined, and yes, they will dissolve. They are only humans, not robot and machines. Even if they are robots, they would still need to stop for maintenance inspection.
> 
> Think about all those "occupy" protest. They dissolved eventually, no need for any government to set up any sabotage.



from scmp

*10.10am: *There's a story doing the rounds among the protesters about a potential imposter among their ranks.

The rumour goes that a man speaking Cantonese with a mainland accent tried to talk the crowd out of the protests and to abandon the stand-off with police outside PLA headquarters, where fewer protesters were gathered, at 7pm last night. 

The man, who was wearing a checked short-sleeved shirt and board shorts, tried talking to anyone who would listen to him. After a few curt rebukes from the crowd, his phone rang. His ring tone? _March of the Volunteers – _China's national anthem. The crowd groaned and no one spoke to him after that, despite his insistence that he was an Occupy Central supporter. 


as i suggested trained agents, why the hell did he need to install that ring tone?


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## Jlaw

Rechoice said:


> we are one nation in one state.
> 
> you are secondary citizen in China. Do you know this truth ?
> 
> Hongkongers are better than you when they can say what they want.





cnleio said:


> I believe HongKong students need this very much !
> 
> View attachment 105982
> 
> View attachment 106010
> 
> View attachment 105984
> 
> View attachment 106011
> 
> 
> 
> The more & the better
> View attachment 106012


The HK police use small spray. These ones are better.

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## TheMatador

Nihonjin1051 said:


> 1. Tibetans are not terrorists, Tibetans in China are Chinese citizens and majority of the abide by the law as any other citizen of the PRC. Your wanton prejudice on an entire ethnic group surely does not represent the inclusivity that defines Chinese mentality.
> 
> 2. Radical monks that self immolate do not represent a majority of the Tibetan people.
> 
> 3. The Hong Kongers who are partaking in civil disobedience are not terrorists, merely exercising their right to voice out their opinion , which is afforded to them by the Hong Kong Government. For me, I may not agree with their choice to hold these protests and empathize with some business owners, private citizens on the effects on traffic, urban services. Still, this does not mean they deserve lethal punishment for voicing their opinions. These are well educated, behaved Han Chinese that are seeking a redress.
> 
> 4. How China handles this, hopefully in a pragmatic and compromising nature, will shape how the world will see PRC in the coming decades. Is the PRC the same PRC as seen in Tiananmen Square or no? That is yet to be seen...


Your points are well taken. But you seemed to leave out the fact protest leaders are on foreign payrolls?! In USA, for example, this would be a very serious crime (sedition) and the protest leaders could be imprisoned for life.

My point remains, even if it differs from those of other well-intentioned PDF members: I believe decisive action, even if remembered as brutal action for months or years, is the only way to settle the issue of HK separatism permanently. Fight fire with fire!



Huaren said:


> stop all those crazy talk about threat or violence, a compromise will be made between HK government and the protest leaders. In the begining those who lead the protesters want to make a deal, make outragerous demand is good in making better deal when both parties meet "in between" aka 漫天要价，坐地还钱. Now those middle school students are quite useful for public sympathy / support, next time I suppose they will make good use of primary school pupils.


Bad idea. Give them an inch, they will take a mile. Only a brutal crushing of the HK separatist movement with physical force and imprisonment or execution of the leaders will end the movement permanently. Nobody rebels against Josef Stalin!


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## TheMatador

manojb said:


> ‘Global Solidarity with Hong Kong’ rallies planned worldwide as Facebook turns yellow in support of protestors | South China Morning Post
> 
> *‘Global Solidarity with Hong Kong’ rallies planned worldwide as Facebook turns yellow in support of protestors*
> View attachment 105774
> 
> Rallies in support of Hong Kong protesters who took to the street over the weekend to call for greater democracy have been held in multiple cities around the world, with more planned in the coming days.
> 
> 全球聲援香港爭取真普選 United for Democracy: Global Solidarity with Hong Kong | Facebook
> 
> View attachment 105773


I do not agree with other Chinese PDF member who advocate being cautious and patient. I believe only decisive action will end the HK separatist movement. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. Foreign troublemakers are already manipulating them so immediate "neutralization" is needed regardless of bloodshed. Nobody rebels against Josef Stalin. Now it's time for Beijing to give the protesters the Josef Stalin treatment!



P.S. I am not one of those who think Tiananmen incident is embarassing. I laugh when somebody brings it up. I point out that we crushed the traitors and emerged victorious. A glorious day indeed. No mercy for the traitors. Send them packing to foreign countries they love deep in their hearts.

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## William Hung

Europa said:


> from scmp
> 
> *10.10am: *There's a story doing the rounds among the protesters about a potential imposter among their ranks.
> 
> The rumour goes that a man speaking Cantonese with a mainland accent tried to talk the crowd out of the protests and to abandon the stand-off with police outside PLA headquarters, where fewer protesters were gathered, at 7pm last night.
> 
> The man, who was wearing a checked short-sleeved shirt and board shorts, tried talking to anyone who would listen to him. After a few curt rebukes from the crowd, his phone rang. His ring tone? _March of the Volunteers – _China's national anthem. The crowd groaned and no one spoke to him after that, despite his insistence that he was an Occupy Central supporter.
> 
> 
> as i suggested trained agents, why the hell did he need to install that ring tone?



Europa, hurry and get out of HK ASAP! you were already warned to check your ring tone and polish your Cantonese accent!!!


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## terranMarine

It will not last, it never does. Just take a good look at the Occupy movement from around the world or the recent one in Thailand or what other protests you can come up with or what about the Sun movement in Taiwan. As long it involves a tiny % of the citizens nothing will happen. These selfish brainwashed kids and delusional grown ups think they can achieve revolution with a very vague cause. What's the purpose of being able to choose a Chief Executive who is pro Western and anti PRC? What's in it for these dumb democracy hungry simpleton? Have they even thought about it? Will their livelihood increase? Less social injustice? Less corruption? All they can come up with is freedom and real democracy as reasons justifying for disrupting HK's daily life.

Skipping class for a "noble" cause? Go ahead, lets see how long these students can continue, sleeping on the road, soaked in the rain, scorched under the sun. How about getting electrocuted by the thunder god? I bet they would flee like rats the moment lightning strikes.

Plenty of HK citizens have voiced their dissatisfaction with these kids fighting for such a meaningless ideology. Business on halt, transportation affected. Calling CY to step down due to use of tear gas on protesters, are they for real? Seeking worldwide attention that's what they are doing.

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## TheMatador

AgentOrange said:


> No need. In a week or two, the novelty of living like homeless squatters will wear off and they'll go home, having achieved nothing. The Chinese government is behaving perfectly correctly, IMO. The HK police have it all under control.





terranMarine said:


> It will not last, it never does. Just take a good look at the Occupy movement from around the world or the recent one in Thailand or what other protests you can come up with or what about the Sun movement in Taiwan. As long it involves a tiny % of the citizens nothing will happen. These selfish brainwashed kids and delusional grown ups think they can achieve revolution with a very vague cause. What's the purpose of being able to choose a Chief Executive who is pro Western and anti PRC? What's in it for these dumb democracy hungry simpleton? Have they even thought about it? Will their livelihood increase? Less social injustice? Less corruption? All they can come up with is freedom and real democracy as reasons justifying for disrupting HK's daily life.
> 
> Skipping class for a "noble" cause? Go ahead, lets see how long these students can continue, sleeping on the road, soaked in the rain, scorched under the sun. How about getting electrocuted by the thunder god? I bet they would flee like rats the moment lightning strikes.
> 
> Plenty of HK citizens have voiced their dissatisfaction with these kids fighting for such a meaningless ideology. Business on halt, transportation affected. Calling CY to step down due to use of tear gas on protesters, are they for real? Seeking worldwide attention that's what they are doing.


Never underestimate the enemy. They are already on the payroll of foreign governments. Consider them zombies with no autonomous thinking but only remote controlled. A small army of zombies.

The only way to deal with an army of zombies is brutal force! Make sure everybody is hurt, screaming and crying. 

If non-lethal force does not work to re-program their mind, the zombies they must be captured and imprisoned until a cure can be found.


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## kolinsky

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Of course it is a concern since Hong Kong is a component city of P.R.C.


why? Hongkong never pay tax to the central governement, why we have to supply services. Just watching TV, say, I am bored, entertain me.....



TheMatador said:


> Never underestimate the enemy. They are already on the payroll of foreign governments. Consider them zombies with no autonomous thinking but only remote controlled. A small army of zombies.
> 
> The only way to deal with an army of zombies is brutal force! Make sure everybody is hurt, screaming and crying.
> 
> If non-lethal force does not work to re-program their mind, the zombies they must be captured and imprisoned until a cure can be found.


Are they enemy? They are not our enemy, just students in university for few days, who have already boycotted the classes.


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## placestogo

Most of these “Occupancy Central” protestors are students (most of them losers in the schools I would say) and being leaded by some democracy mongers and traitors to our nation.
What I can see is that the general public of HK as a whole are gradually realizing of these people’s ill intention. During this time, the police/government should not enforce law at streets so not to lose the media war but sacrificing interests of the general public in using the roads and doing businesses. It is just a matter of time before some volunteer groups such as drivers/sales people would take up a storm against these protestors on behalf of the police.

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## Brainsucker

I don't know, but maybe the head of HK protesters should be invited to Beijing and meet Xi Jin Ping. Let Xi lecture them. i'm sure they'll understand and disband.


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## terranMarine

What would Mao or Deng have done in this case?  
You send in the tanks to do the job

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## Europa

Black Flag said:


> Europa, hurry and get out of HK ASAP! you were already warned to check your ring tone and polish your Cantonese accent!!!



somehow protest is over

now dyslexia needs urgent medical treatment


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## beijingwalker




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## kolinsky

placestogo said:


> Most of these “Occupancy Central” protestors are students (most of them losers in the schools I would say) and being leaded by some democracy mongers and traitors to our nation.
> What I can see is that the general public of HK as a whole are gradually realizing of these people’s ill intention. During this time, the police/government should not enforce law at streets so not to lose the media war but sacrificing interests of the general public in using the roads and doing businesses. It is just a matter of time before some volunteer groups such as drivers/sales people would take up a storm against these protestors on behalf of the police.


I have a question.

I think people should register to a volt to prove his willingness to be elected. However, the OC people claimed that they want the right to name a people. I am confused. It is possible that a person walking with his mistresses and a bottle of beer can be told that you are elected as the next leader of Hongkong. The OC's politics are rediculous! Is there some people in Hongkong has the reputation like "斯人不出，如蒼生何"? Oh, he must be Zhuge Liang reincarnation.


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## JSCh

Why they want to protest this?
Why they protest against and succeeded in preventing the Article 23 anti-sedition law? 
Why they want foreign funding of local politician to be legal?
Because they are pitching themselves to be able to bring/promote democracy to the mainland.
So that their foreign backer could justify the funding to their tax payer.
They are hyping up the rhetoric that mainland China want to control HK as if a communist takeover is going to happen. What kind of people would still think like some kind of cold war ideological warrior?

But what their backer cannot see(or maybe don't care) is, it is not working. 
Actually it has a opposite effect. 
The protest would be view as hurting the interest of China. The demand of the HK protester are seen as unreasonable.
The more the protest, the more badly democracy would be seen as something bad and anti-China by the mainland Chinese citizen.
In other word, their foreign backer's taxpayer are wasting their money.

And the main victim would be people of HK. Because whichever way it go, they are the one to pay.

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## beijingwalker




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## TheMatador

^ Give them an inch they take a mile!

Bring in the tanks to crush traitors now!


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## placestogo

kolinsky said:


> I have a question.
> 
> I think people should register to a volt to prove his willingness to be elected. However, the OC people claimed that they want the right to name a people. I am confused. It is possible that a person walking with his mistresses and a bottle of beer can be told that you are elected as the next leader of Hongkong. The OC's politics are rediculous! Is there some people in Hongkong has the reputation like "斯人不出，如蒼生何"? Oh, he must be Zhuge Liang reincarnation.



Frankly, having lived a long time in HK myself, I do not think these OC dudes’ proposal would work anyway but only create chaos. There are a lot of logical fallacies in their arguements like people do in a students' union.

The US will fail on their hidden agenda to provoke uprisings in the chinese mainland through OC.

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## beijingwalker

*US steps up interference in China amid Hong Kong pro-democracy protests*

The United States has stepped up its interference in China’s internal affairs, saying Washington “supports the aspirations of the Hong Kong people” amid continuing pro-democracy protests in the Chinese territory.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said on Monday Washington backs “universal suffrage in Hong Kong in accordance with the Basic Law and we support the aspirations of the Hong Kong people.”

Earnest said the legitimacy of Hong Kong’s chief executive will be greatly enhanced if he is elected by universal suffrage according to the Basic Law.

"We have consistently made our position known to Beijing, and will continue to do so," he said. China has warned against foreign meddling in the demonstrations.

His comments came as thousands of protesters rallied for a fourth night in Hong Kong demanding open nominations for candidates for the 2017 elections. That is against a China-backed framework that only allows candidates approved by Beijing.

Organizers of the protests have said that as many as 80,000 protesters have thronged the streets in the capitalist hub of more than 7 million people since Friday.

The rallies have reportedly received support from some foreign countries, including the United States and Britain.

On Monday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said, "Hong Kong is China's Hong Kong. Hong Kong is purely our internal affair.”

"We are resolutely opposed to any foreign country using any method to interfere in China's internal affairs,” she added.

GJH/GJH
*PressTV - US steps up interference in China amid Hong Kong pro-democracy protests*

China should take a leaf out of US book and see what they did during the Wall street occupation movement.

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## TaiShang

Once the US-Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland had said: "F*** the EU!"

I will not direct a similar adage at the US but just share a picture:

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## TaiShang

Some learned commenter wrote at GT:

"If every leader, Chief Executive follow the demand of a splinter group to resign because the current policy does not suit them, then there would be continuous chaos in running the country or a corporation.

C.Y Leung has been handling this protest in a control manner and his offer to meet the protesters to listen and endeavour to resolve this crisis show statesmanship.

A long drawn crisis is not in the interest of Hong Kong as a financial centre, not to say that it will eventually affect Hong Kong's economy as well as employment. Confidence need to be re-injected to show the financial community that the Local Government has the situation under control.

There are others who seem to embark on a single mindedness of achieving their agenda in the expense of the whole community. Do the democratic groups intend to stick to their positions and for how long before some drastic actions have to be considered. No country or government will allow such obstruction in the way of proper functioning of Government affairs. Even in the case of the O.C in Wall Street, the enforcer eventually moved in to clear the crowd.

It may be in the interest of the Democratic Groups to heed CY Leung offer to meet and resolve this issue, It is not that Central Government in China is against Universal Suffrage, they have stated that 2017 is to be the year of implementation but implement with certain requirements. 

No country in the world would nominate and appoint a C.E, or a P.M. or a President to the post if this leader is not loyal to the country. Even in Australia, New Zealand and other Commonwealth Nations with the Queen as the Head, the Governor General is appointed by the Government of the Day, and the person background has been thoroughly checked before approval.

Some form of selection method or control mechanism need to be considered to ensure that this will not happen, whether they are the one proposed by Central Government in China or between parties that could be acceptable to have this resolved."

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## beijingwalker



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## TheMatador

If there are no foreign elements, I can tolerate misguided people with stupid ideas, even some disruption. But this is all about foreign sponsored puppets with Chinese faces. Hanjian must be crushed under our tanks like our glorious victory 25 years ago!

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## beijingwalker



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## TaiShang

From Occupy Wall Street:

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## Infra_Man99

Peter C said:


> Hmm...either everybody is vastly underestimating the power of the US Government or vastly overestimating its power.
> 
> One one hand people say it is completely inept and can't figure out how to show people how to cross the street on their own.
> 
> On the other hand people claim it is so powerful it can in short order and with a snap of the finger brainwash thousands of people to join ISIS or thousands of HK citizens to protest China.



No one is saying that but you. You're using straw man arguments.

I and others provided sources showing that the US government and corporations have been spending lots of resources for many years on promoting their agendas in Hong Kong and elsewhere.

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## JSCh

This people from HK doesn't seem to understand that their prosperity lies largely with China.
They seem to think that the higher living standard that they have is due to only their own achievement.

China is growing, China is going through changes. China needs to undergo reform to adapt.
All of this changes now and future would have effect on HK. Because HK is tiny compare to China, HK need to coordinate with China to take advantage of favorable conditions and to alleviate any ill effects.

There is no fundamental conflict of interest between China and HK. The relationship should be symbiotic. Letting political ideology to come between the relationship is really really stupid.
HK need to stop seeing the relationship as some kind of competition, as power struggle between political ideology. There is no ulterior takeover of HK by China because of ideological reason. China only want control just in case.

HK need to be seen as giving a damn about the national interest of China and win the heart and support of Chinese mainlander.
Because from mainlander point of view, this is not an incident when "HK dare to say NO", this is perpetual uncompromising "HK that only know how to say NO".
As a member of a family, HK need to contribute to the family interest just like every other member of the family.
Looking from the world of hard politics, HK available leverage is not really that great. The good will of China is one of them. Throwing it away is really not wise.
China cannot stand still and wait for HK to come around. There are over 1 billion Chinese citizen to take care of. If HK continue this uncooperative and uncompromising attitude, it cannot be help that HK would be shunned/avoided in China's future planning. And that would be harmful to HK future well being.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Infra_Man99 said:


> No one is saying that but you. You're using straw man arguments.
> 
> I and others provided sources showing that the US government and corporations have been spending lots of resources for many years on promoting their agendas in Hong Kong and elsewhere.



Yes, the US does have agendas around the world. But do you believe those in Hong Kong are only protesting because the US somehow has brainwashed them suddenly into thinking a certain way (which they normally wouldn't)? Maybe the US tomorrow can ask the protest leaders to have everybody jump into the sea en masse.


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## Speeder 2

Morally I support this demonstration. But in practice, I hold a different view:


HK's real problem is not "the lack of direct election, or democracy", but the problem of the entire world of any time actually: the rich-poor differences.

The rich become rucher faster and the poor become poorer faster in HK nowsdays, particularly due to globalisation.

Not only HK, there'll also be street movements and demonstrations for freedom and democracy or whatever allover the world from Congo to Singapore to Panama to France to Argentina to Switzerland...(anywhere even in the heart of the 5th Avenue of NYC because we all have the problem of rich-poor divide), if some countries are actively backing the movements up with their own agendas.

There's only 1 country in the world that is proactively seeking excuses to back its own agendas in all regions. We all know whom it is.

"Democracy" or "HK's real election" or whatever, are not the end solutions to the said problem, but only one of the means that are supposed to help solving the problem (e.g. What does HK's real election mean? It is no the end, but a mean to aim for solving HK's problem poor-rich differences. It might help a bit but mostly won't, because rich-poor difference won't go away in the end no matter how you vote).

However, "Democracy" or "HK's real election" or whatever can be served perfectly well as CNN front page slogans for the masses, in order to hide the real agenda of USA, like has tirelessly done to the ME, North Africa, Ukraine, etc.


For USA and the Western media led by CNN, there're only 2 types of countries in the world:

1. the ones in that the US hasn't got too much interests, such as Congo, Namibia, India, Liberia, etc. The US won't give two figs on whatever happen there. So there're little or no CNN/BBC front-page street demonstration news on them.

2. the ones in that the US have heavy geopolitical interests: the ME(oil) , Ukraine(Russia), Syria(Russia), HK(China), Uighers (China), South China Sea (China) etc. On them CNN, BBC and Twitter etc will work 24*7, and live.

HK's demonstrators have the luxury that they don't need to think about global geopolitics, but Beijing, Washington, and Moscow do.

In eyes of Beijin, HK's problem is not only rich-poor differences, but also mostly China-US global geopolitics on top of China's own domestic politics.

Right now, HK is in danger of becoming just another "Ukraine". The differences of the two are

1. China's overall capabilities are lot stronger than Russia

2. average IQ of HK is a lot higher than that of Ukraine( Hk's is amongst the world's highest actually), so that those brainwashing slogans can not be so effective on the majority of HK people for most of the time, unlike they have done to the Ukrainians and the Middle Easterners. No wonder that the core of the demonstration is high school and university studs of HK who on avg have far too few life experiences. It's always easier to take candies from the kids they say...

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## cnleio

HongKong police need to learn their American colleagues to deal with these protest students from U.S. 

Anyway we need American police in HongKong now.

WELL DONE~!

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## dropithard

Political movements often conjure images of passionate university-goers championing progressive views they learned on campus. But the long, storied history of Hong Kong’s student-led political movements is taking a different turn: The most prominent student leader of the territory’s pro-democracy protests is only 17 years old.
Sporting heavy black glasses and a bowl cut, Joshua Wong Chi-fung doesn’t exactly cut a menacing figure. But his activism against what many in Hong Kong perceive to be the Chinese Communist Party’s encroachment onto their freedoms has already attracted Beijing’s attention. Mainland authorities call him an “extremist.” A party document on national security identifies Wong by name as a threat to internal stability. Pro-Beijing newspapers in Hong Kong, meanwhile, accuse him of working for the US Central Intelligence Agency to infiltrate Hong Kong schools. (Wong denies the charges.)
Joshua Wong’s fight against “brainwashing”

Convener of the students group "Scholarism" Joshua Wong attends a sit-in protest outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong, Wednesday, Sept. 5, 2012. Protesters urged the government to cancel new additional course, "Moral and National Education" subject, to be introduced for school curriculum, starting from a new school year. (AP Photo/Kin CheungWong at a 2012 sit-in protesting “national education” in front of government headquarters.AP Photo/Kin Cheung
Wong got his start in 2011, when he and fellow students founded a group called “Scholarism,” which they thought was catchier than the direct translation of the Chinese, meaning “scholarly trends.” Wong and Scholarism rose to prominence in 2012, when the Hong Kong government tried to roll out Communist Party-approved “patriotic” education in Hong Kong’s public schools, to replace civics classes. The curriculum included textbooks like one titled “The China Model,” which characterized China’s Communist Party as “progressive, selfless and united,” and criticized multi-party systems like Hong Kong’s while avoiding major (unflattering) events—notably, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution and the Tiananmen Square massacres of 1989—reports the New York Times (paywall).


One Hong Kong journalist likened the move to a Trojan horse that dissolved Hong Kong’s identity; Wong called it “brainwashing,” an attempt to require students to “develop an emotional attachment to China,” as he put it in this video by the South China Morning Post (paywall). In Sep. 2012, Wong and Scholarism mobilized more than 120,000 people to demonstrate (paywall) against the education program, including a slew of students who went on hunger strike. Within days, the Hong Kong government scrapped the plan for mandatory implementation.






Wong’s next battle: “universal suffrage”

But Wong and Scholarism knew that as long as Hong Kong lacks representative government, both the education issue and the Chinese government’s failed 2003 attempt to impose US Patriot Act-style rules on Hong Kong would eventually resurface. So they began researching the controversy that’s now galvanizing the Umbrella Revolution: universal suffrage.

This issue is really confusing—and, as even Wong admits, “really boring.” The background goes something like this: Hong Kong is governed by what’s called the Basic Law, which legal scholars from the then-British colony and the mainland wrote up prior to the 1997 handover. The law promises Hong Kong a “high degree of autonomy” until 2047 (after which, it is assumed, it will merge with the People’s Republic of China for good). It also indicates, although vaguely, that the ultimate objective is for the chief executive and the congress to be elected by universal suffrage by Hong Kong’s seven million people.

That’s not how it is at the moment. Hong Kong’s chief executive is currently chosen by an “election committee” made up of 1,193 members selected to represent “functional constituencies,” such as business and labor groups. Beijing controls who is on the committee, and, in turn, whom the committee elects; the committee also decides who runs. Ultimately, since the Chinese government still has to officially “appoint” the chosen candidate, it has veto power over the chief executive.
In 2007, the National People’s Congress, China’s legislature, promised that by 2017, Hong Kong’s chief executive “may be implemented by the method of universal suffrage.” Some in Hong Kong read that to mean by 2017, they’d have fully democratic elections. But the NPC, evidently, had something else in mind: that each and every Hong Kong citizen would be allowed to vote—but only for one of three candidates selected by the (Communist Party-picked) “electoral committee.”

Civic nomination vs. Communist Party nomination

What’s bizarre is that many ostensibly pro-democracy politicians in Hong Kong accept this policy—including, most prominently, Hong Kong’s Democratic Party, according to Suzanne Pepper, who blogs on Hong Kong politics.

Wong highlights that this cynical pragmatism plays to the mainland’s bullying, recalling that Albert Ho, leader of the Democratic Party, once asked him during a radio show, “Do you really think Beijing will accept public nomination?”
Only when the people select the candidates—or when they select the people who select the candidates—can suffrage truly be universal, says Wong. He and Scholarism have championed the idea that civic nomination was essential to create a truly representative democracy. When the Hong Kong government’s working group on the election issue called for public recommendations, Scholarism’s joint proposal with the Hong Kong Federation of Students was one of only two that insisted on public nomination of candidates for the election of chief executive, writes Pepper.

Flash forward to the “Umbrella Revolution”


This careful analysis of the murky laws that govern the relationship between the mainland and its wealthy capitalist territory is what’s landed Joshua Wong at the center of the showdown with the Communist Party. And, for that matter, his role in the protests erupting in Hong Kong’s downtown thoroughfares. Along with 12 other student activists arrested on Sep. 26, the Hong Kong police dragged a screaming, bleeding Wong away as he and others demonstrated outside government headquarters. Many were soon freed. Wong, however, remained in custody until Sep. 28, when a Hong Kong high court ordered his release, citing a lack of legal grounds for continued detention, over objections from government lawyers (paywall); the judge also quashed government efforts to attach conditions to Wong’s release, said his lawyer.

Scuffling with the police is the type of thing that usually leaves Hong Kong citizens wary of “politics.” But the students are now winning the sympathy of broader Hong Kong society. And regardless of how his approach to civil disobedience comes across, Wong’s recent arrest nonetheless symbolizes what makes Hong Kong different from the mainland: its rule of law.
Separation of powers allowed the court to overrule government wishes to detain Wong for longer and release him conditionally. The court’s decision was based on a writ of habeas corpus, which guarantees the right to have a judge decide whether the authorities have lawful grounds for a person’s arrest.

Those protections don’t exist in mainland China, where rules are not conducted by law, but by government fiat. That said, mainland China relies heavily on Hong Kong as an international center of finance and commerce, which is only made possible by its strong property and contract rights. Unless Wong and his fellow students prevail, that rule of law the mainland depends on could soon disappear.

Meet the Hong Kong teenager who’s standing up to the Chinese Communist Party – Quartz

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## Hamartia Antidote

cnleio said:


> HongKong police need to learn their American colleagues to deal with these protest students from U.S.
> 
> Anyway we need American police in HongKong now.
> 
> WELL DONE~!



For the record that's a UC Davis campus police spraying them (basically a security guard) not a real police officer.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

This is good for china in long term. Learn some experience for democracy movement

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## Desertfalcon

The US absolutely does NOT want Hong Kong to become separate. We want China to become more democratic. China should want that as well as the ONLY thing holding them back from overtaking America as the world's pre-eminent and most important superpower, is their inability to break all remaining ties with their tragic communist past. A real democratic China, with 1.3 billion people who want to better their lives in a free market system, would be unstoppable.


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## ayachyan

i am happy to see the coming failure in his future. Let the student win this time means the dark abyss for real democracy. they never represent a bit of democracy, they are definitely the populist. they are young and naive, they never know and never try to know there is a peaceful and effective way to achieve their goal. they claims they represent the very majority but ignore deliberately 70% of Hong Kongers are against their movement. 
anyway, Hong Kong should seek her unique style of democracy, not just copy the system in USA or west. That really take time, but as a 5000 years civilization, time is not the problem.


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## Kolaps




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## Kolaps



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## tranquilium

To quote the immortal word of Bruce Wayne, "to be young and gullible".

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## AgentOrange

Hmmm, seems your average Hong Konger is starting to get fed up with these spoiled brats. Illegally blocking streets, holding up traffic, and blocking government offices is bad for business. I applaud our patriotic brothers and sisters in Hong Kong for making **their** voices heard. They're sick of these foreign intelligence led protests and they won't take it anymore. You hear that traitors? Your neighbors are true Chinese and they don't want to be slaves of the West. And they're gonna make sure it doesn't happen. Even if they have to kick your @ss. 



Violent clashes break out in Hong Kong after counter-protesters storm sit-in | World news | The Guardian

*Violent clashes break out in Hong Kong after counter-protesters storm sit-in*
About 1,000 people opposed to pro-democracy movement fight 100 demonstrators after Leung Chun-ying’s talks offer

Violent scuffles broke out in one of Hong Kong’s most famous and congested shopping districts on Friday, as supporters of Chinese rule stormed tents and ripped down banners belonging to pro-democracy protesters.

In the gritty, bustling district of Mongkok – considered one of the most crowded places on Earth with its high-rise apartment blocks packed closely together over neon lights, bars, restaurants and open-air markets – about 1,000 Beijing supporters clashed with about 100 protesters on Friday, spitting and throwing water bottles.

Hong Kong’s mass pro-democracy protests had ebbed on Friday morning after the chief executive offered talks to student representatives minutes before their midnight deadline for his resignation.

But hundreds remained in Mongkok and around government offices in the city’s downtown, angered by Leung Chun-ying’s refusal to quit and deeply sceptical that dialogue will win any changes to Beijing’s plans for elections in the region.

Police formed a human chain in Mongkok to separate the two groups amid the wail of sirens. Beijing supporters shouted at police for failing to move on the pro-democracy demonstrations.

Incoming pro-democracy demonstrators later reversed the numbers so it was the pro-Beijing protesters who were protected by a ring of police, including some with riot gear.

Some of the pro-Occupy protesters meanwhile threw objects at the pro-Beijing group even as they were being led away.

Two of the pro-democracy leaders Benny Tai, a co-founder of Occupy Central, and 17-year-old student activist Joshua Wong urged their supporters as the clashes broke out to leave Mongkok for their own safety and concentrate on the protests around the government complex in Admiralty.

The Hong Kong government on Friday evening issued what it called “another stern warning to protesters” urging the pro-democracy protests to immediately leave the area outside Leung’s offices and the government complex.

“The behaviour of these protesters is illegal, extremely unreasonable and inhumane, and is even worse than that of radical social activists and almost complete anarchy,” the statement said.

“Nonsensical acts of obstructing the police and other public officers carrying out their duties to serve the community will not be tolerated. People gathering in the vicinity of the CGO and the CEO will be dealt with resolutely in accordance with the law”





Hong Kong pro-democracy demonstrators hold umbrellas. Photograph: PHILIPPE LOPEZ/AFP/Getty Images
There were earlier scuffles on Friday between police and demonstrators at Leung’s office, and angry debates between protesters trying to block the road running past it and the larger number who opposed them, warning it would only antagonise the public.

Demonstrators created safe passage lines so that vehicles could get through.

The spontaneity and diversity of the movement will make it harder to bring the protest to a smooth end. Student and Occupy Central organisers have stressed for days that they are no longer the leaders of the protests.

At Causeway Bay, the third protest site, only a handful of protesters remained and police cleared away most of the barriers they had erected. Some residents complained angrily to demonstrators about the disruption.

Mongkok is popular with tourists from the mainland but not as well known to western tourists as the luxury shopping area of Causeway Bay.

Leung said in his 11th-hour press conference that he was staying, but announced that he had asked the chief secretary Carrie Lam to speak to student representatives, as they had requested. Beijing had earlier expressed its total confidence in his leadership.

The Hong Kong Federation of Students said in a statement early on Friday that it would take part in the talks with the government, stressing that the dialogue would cover only political reform. It repeated its demand that Leung step down, saying he “had lost his integrity”.

Joshua Wong, co-founder of another student group, Scholarism, wrote on Facebook: “People have asked me what my position is. People have asked me what my thinking is. To me, it is not complicated nor hard to understand … For Leung Chun-ying to step down; to fight for civic nomination; the withdrawal of the NPC decision [which imposed tough restrictions on future chief executive elections].”

Occupy Central also welcomed the talks but still insisted that Leung quit. Leung’s remarks were the first concession in a standoff that has lasted for days, with tens of thousands of protesters paralysing parts of central Hong Kong at its peak.

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## Kolaps

The conclusion of the article:

*All HK resident are BAD people!!!*


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## flamer84

It reminds me about the June 1990 Mineriad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia back home in 1990 when "honest" miners "came" (were brought by the regime) to crush the "foreign paid agitators and trouble makers" (intelectuals and students) who were protesting against communist fossils ruling the country.It's an old commie trick.


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## Kolaps

^
Communist are EVIL!

Many of Eastern European and Chinese people share their experience live in hellhole.


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## bobsm

"Leung’s remarks were the first concession in a standoff that has lasted for days, with tens of thousands of protesters paralysing parts of central Hong Kong at its peak. "

Now sending in your secretary to talk with them is consider a concession? The occupiers obviously are delusional to think they will get anything other than a big no. Guess the spin to save face begins.

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## cnleio

Peter C said:


> For the record that's a UC Davis campus police spraying them (basically a security guard) not a real police officer.


Thank you, now HK need both U.S security guard & U.S police to help us. 

They r police, aren't they ? I see the "POLICE" logo on uniform.

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## Nan Yang

flamer84 said:


> It reminds me about the June 1990 Mineriad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia back home in 1990 when "honest" miners "came" (were brought by the regime) to crush the "foreign paid agitators and trouble makers" (intelectuals and students) who were protesting against communist fossils ruling the country.It's an old commie trick.



You give the CCP too much credit. 
If you follow news in Hong Kong you will know a huge portion of Hong Kong do not support the Occupiers.

Thousands join Hong Kong anti-Occupy protest - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

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## Nan Yang

Reminds me of the fox who made friend with the Tiger and now thinks he the King of the jungle.

And we all know who the tiger is.

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## Globenim

Imported Western"democracy" means chaos and destruction brought to you by a very small minority the majority has to suffer trough, while the country regresses so Westen oligarchs can replace your government with puppets and exploit your nations riches more easily.

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## AgentOrange

flamer84 said:


> It reminds me about the June 1990 Mineriad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia back home in 1990 when "honest" miners "came" (were brought by the regime) to crush the "foreign paid agitators and trouble makers" (intelectuals and students) who were protesting against communist fossils ruling the country.It's an old commie trick.



The protests have been non-violent and the crowd has been losing support. Why would Beijing need to do anything of the sort you're insinuating?

What happened reminds me of pissed off business owners sick of having their livelihoods adversely affected by bratty kids on the CIA payroll.



Nan Yang said:


> You give the CCP too much credit.
> If you follow news in Hong Kong you will know a huge portion of Hong Kong do not support the Occupiers.
> 
> Thousands join Hong Kong anti-Occupy protest - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English



For certain people, if something happens that doesn't fit neatly into their Euro-centric viewpoint then it must be an *Evil Communist Conspiracy*.



Kolaps said:


> The conclusion of the article:
> 
> *All HK resident are BAD people!!!*



If that's the conclusion you came to, you have reading comprehension issues.

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## qwerrty

knew this would happen. people have to go to work, businesses to run and mouths to feed 









Anti-Occupy Central protesters stand behind a police cordon on Nathan Road at Hong Kong's Mongkok shopping district October 3, 2014, demanding the tents set up by pro-democracy protesters to be demolished.

Credit: Reuters/Bobby Yip

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## powastick

Lol, If China wants it, they can sent millions of eager volunteers. 500 thousand is nothing against 10 million.

Those pro-democracy are idiots thinking they can win with their candidate. As a Malaysian that is impossible. One thing we learn protesting does not mean majority. And there is plenty of ways to cheat. "Project IC" for example. Democracy is an illusion. What is happening in Hong Kong is tyranny by the minorities.

So in short
Democracy is called > Confirm Lose > continues to protest > repeat cycle.

Hong Kongers are bastards asking for foreign interference. Wu Sangui?

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## Raphael

They are acting in self-defense. Their economic livelihoods are being imperiled by terrorists agitators, and thus they are taking matters into their own hands. And as we all know, it's perfectly legitimate to use deadly force in self-defense. So hopefully when the counter-rioters are done and have cleaned all the trash off the streets, there will not be a single empty hospital bed in Hong Kong.

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## qwerrty

i heard triads beat the crap out of some of them badly for making their restaurants, pubs, clubs and shit load of other businesses losing money. lol. i bet those naive kids didn't see that coming 

anti-occupy mob. mostly old people

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## Infra_Man99

Desertfalcon said:


> The US absolutely does NOT want Hong Kong to become separate. We want China to become more democratic. China should want that as well as the ONLY thing holding them back from overtaking America as the world's pre-eminent and most important superpower, is their inability to break all remaining ties with their tragic communist past. A real democratic China, with 1.3 billion people who want to better their lives in a free market system, would be unstoppable.



US democracy means the majority of idiots rules over everyone, thus, the US Congress has super low approval ratings, Bush was and Obama is the idiot leader in the White House, and the US is a declining superpower. US elections are the world's most expensive with corporations and central banks legally bribing US politicians.

US capitalism means central banks print out lots of money so the US rulers could live in luxury. The US petrodollar spreads US inflation all over the world, but the US needs a ridiculously expensive military policy to enforce the petrodollar in resource rich nations. US too-big-to-fail corporations and their managers screw over most Americans. The US consumes until they become overweight and all of the health problems associated with eating too much junk food. The US consumes until they have huge debts even after outsourcing lots of labor to cheap nations, importing more affordable workers for hi-tech labor, and importing lots of cheap labor from Hispanic nations, but the Hispanics have high rates of crime and social problems like low intelligence, procreating too much, broken families, and high car accident rates.

The the US democracy and US capitalism requires racial quotas at work and school and other forms of welfare to help out obnoxious Jews who insist on bossing around everyone and accusing everyone of being anti-Semitic and dysfunctional blacks and less dysfunctional Hispanics.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Don't think mainland depends on HK for anything. Funny thing about finance and legal things is that they're fleeting, while hard power like industrial production, intellectual property and scientific infrastructure are forever.

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## gpit

JSCh said:


> This people from HK doesn't seem to understand that their prosperity lies largely with China.
> They seem to think that the higher living standard that they have is due to only their own achievement.
> 
> China is growing, China is going through changes. China needs to undergo reform to adapt.
> All of this changes now and future would have effect on HK. Because HK is tiny compare to China, HK need to coordinate with China to take advantage of favorable conditions and to alleviate any ill effects.
> 
> There is no fundamental conflict of interest between China and HK. The relationship should be symbiotic. Letting political ideology to come between the relationship is really really stupid.
> HK need to stop seeing the relationship as some kind of competition, as power struggle between political ideology. There is no ulterior takeover of HK by China because of ideological reason. China only want control just in case.
> 
> HK need to be seen as giving a damn about the national interest of China and win the heart and support of Chinese mainlander.
> Because from mainlander point of view, this is not an incident when "HK dare to say NO", this is perpetual uncompromising "HK that only know how to say NO".
> As a member of a family, HK need to contribute to the family interest just like every other member of the family.
> Looking from the world of hard politics, HK available leverage is not really that great. The good will of China is one of them. Throwing it away is really not wise.
> China cannot stand still and wait for HK to come around. There are over 1 billion Chinese citizen to take care of. If HK continue this uncooperative and uncompromising attitude, it cannot be help that HK would be shunned/avoided in China's future planning. And that would be harmful to HK future well being.



Don't worry.

There are only max 100k protesters, mostly are teens who have never made their life themselves but relied on their parents to feed them. In comparison, there are 7000k HKnese who are the quiet majority.

Blue Ribbon is going to outnumber yellow ribbon soon...



> *Meanwhile, anti-Occupy sentiments are on the rise throughout Hong Kong as annoyed residents, business owners and anti-Occupy activists get into quarrels and clashes with protesters holding out in Causeway Bay, Admiralty and Mong Kok. *
> ...
> 
> OCCUPY CENTRAL - DAY SIX: Full coverage of the day’s events | South China Morning Post
> 
> -----------------
> 
> BBC News - Blue ribbon wearers 'want HK back to normal'



Don't be surprised that BBC gives much less size to report Blue Ribbon movements, of course.

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## Europa

beat the $hit out of these coolies, don't spare a single bone intact inside 
particularly that dyslexia needs urgent medical surgery 
they deserved this treatment long ago
teach them the definition of northern might


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## powastick

I bet 75% of pro democracy are falun gong.

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## Götterdämmerung

Viet said:


> not from germany




Bloody liar! I can reach Xinhua from Germany.

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## Desertfalcon

Infra_Man99 said:


> US democracy means the majority of idiots rules over everyone, thus, the US Congress has super low approval ratings, Bush was and Obama is the idiot leader in the White House, and the US is a declining superpower. US elections are the world's most expensive with corporations and central banks legally bribing US politicians.
> 
> US capitalism means central banks print out lots of money so the US rulers could live in luxury. The US petrodollar spreads US inflation all over the world, but the US needs a ridiculously expensive military policy to enforce the petrodollar in resource rich nations. US too-big-to-fail corporations and their managers screw over most Americans. The US consumes until they become overweight and all of the health problems associated with eating too much junk food. The US consumes until they have huge debts even after outsourcing lots of labor to cheap nations, importing more affordable workers for hi-tech labor, and importing lots of cheap labor from Hispanic nations, but the Hispanics have high rates of crime and social problems like low intelligence, procreating too much, broken families, and high car accident rates.
> 
> The the US democracy and US capitalism requires racial quotas at work and school and other forms of welfare to help out obnoxious Jews who insist on bossing around everyone and accusing everyone of being anti-Semitic and dysfunctional blacks and less dysfunctional Hispanics.



Yes, that is why the USA is one of the most undesirable places to live and we have masses of Americans flooding into Mexico, China, India, and other countries. That is why America is so poor and why no one wants to live here. It's why we have no illegal immigrants. It's why no one ever risks their life to get to America or fight for it once they are there. It's why no one is trying to emulate America. It's why YOU obviously, don't live in America. 






_I guess these proud new American citizens are just deluded..._

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## Aepsilons

dropithard said:


> Political movements often conjure images of passionate university-goers championing progressive views they learned on campus. But the long, storied history of Hong Kong’s student-led political movements is taking a different turn: The most prominent student leader of the territory’s pro-democracy protests is only 17 years old.
> Sporting heavy black glasses and a bowl cut, Joshua Wong Chi-fung doesn’t exactly cut a menacing figure. But his activism against what many in Hong Kong perceive to be the Chinese Communist Party’s encroachment onto their freedoms has already attracted Beijing’s attention. Mainland authorities call him an “extremist.” A party document on national security identifies Wong by name as a threat to internal stability. Pro-Beijing newspapers in Hong Kong, meanwhile, accuse him of working for the US Central Intelligence Agency to infiltrate Hong Kong schools. (Wong denies the charges.)
> Joshua Wong’s fight against “brainwashing”
> 
> Convener of the students group "Scholarism" Joshua Wong attends a sit-in protest outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong, Wednesday, Sept. 5, 2012. Protesters urged the government to cancel new additional course, "Moral and National Education" subject, to be introduced for school curriculum, starting from a new school year. (AP Photo/Kin CheungWong at a 2012 sit-in protesting “national education” in front of government headquarters.AP Photo/Kin Cheung
> Wong got his start in 2011, when he and fellow students founded a group called “Scholarism,” which they thought was catchier than the direct translation of the Chinese, meaning “scholarly trends.” Wong and Scholarism rose to prominence in 2012, when the Hong Kong government tried to roll out Communist Party-approved “patriotic” education in Hong Kong’s public schools, to replace civics classes. The curriculum included textbooks like one titled “The China Model,” which characterized China’s Communist Party as “progressive, selfless and united,” and criticized multi-party systems like Hong Kong’s while avoiding major (unflattering) events—notably, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution and the Tiananmen Square massacres of 1989—reports the New York Times (paywall).
> 
> 
> One Hong Kong journalist likened the move to a Trojan horse that dissolved Hong Kong’s identity; Wong called it “brainwashing,” an attempt to require students to “develop an emotional attachment to China,” as he put it in this video by the South China Morning Post (paywall). In Sep. 2012, Wong and Scholarism mobilized more than 120,000 people to demonstrate (paywall) against the education program, including a slew of students who went on hunger strike. Within days, the Hong Kong government scrapped the plan for mandatory implementation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wong’s next battle: “universal suffrage”
> 
> But Wong and Scholarism knew that as long as Hong Kong lacks representative government, both the education issue and the Chinese government’s failed 2003 attempt to impose US Patriot Act-style rules on Hong Kong would eventually resurface. So they began researching the controversy that’s now galvanizing the Umbrella Revolution: universal suffrage.
> 
> This issue is really confusing—and, as even Wong admits, “really boring.” The background goes something like this: Hong Kong is governed by what’s called the Basic Law, which legal scholars from the then-British colony and the mainland wrote up prior to the 1997 handover. The law promises Hong Kong a “high degree of autonomy” until 2047 (after which, it is assumed, it will merge with the People’s Republic of China for good). It also indicates, although vaguely, that the ultimate objective is for the chief executive and the congress to be elected by universal suffrage by Hong Kong’s seven million people.
> 
> That’s not how it is at the moment. Hong Kong’s chief executive is currently chosen by an “election committee” made up of 1,193 members selected to represent “functional constituencies,” such as business and labor groups. Beijing controls who is on the committee, and, in turn, whom the committee elects; the committee also decides who runs. Ultimately, since the Chinese government still has to officially “appoint” the chosen candidate, it has veto power over the chief executive.
> In 2007, the National People’s Congress, China’s legislature, promised that by 2017, Hong Kong’s chief executive “may be implemented by the method of universal suffrage.” Some in Hong Kong read that to mean by 2017, they’d have fully democratic elections. But the NPC, evidently, had something else in mind: that each and every Hong Kong citizen would be allowed to vote—but only for one of three candidates selected by the (Communist Party-picked) “electoral committee.”
> 
> Civic nomination vs. Communist Party nomination
> 
> What’s bizarre is that many ostensibly pro-democracy politicians in Hong Kong accept this policy—including, most prominently, Hong Kong’s Democratic Party, according to Suzanne Pepper, who blogs on Hong Kong politics.
> 
> Wong highlights that this cynical pragmatism plays to the mainland’s bullying, recalling that Albert Ho, leader of the Democratic Party, once asked him during a radio show, “Do you really think Beijing will accept public nomination?”
> Only when the people select the candidates—or when they select the people who select the candidates—can suffrage truly be universal, says Wong. He and Scholarism have championed the idea that civic nomination was essential to create a truly representative democracy. When the Hong Kong government’s working group on the election issue called for public recommendations, Scholarism’s joint proposal with the Hong Kong Federation of Students was one of only two that insisted on public nomination of candidates for the election of chief executive, writes Pepper.
> 
> Flash forward to the “Umbrella Revolution”
> 
> 
> This careful analysis of the murky laws that govern the relationship between the mainland and its wealthy capitalist territory is what’s landed Joshua Wong at the center of the showdown with the Communist Party. And, for that matter, his role in the protests erupting in Hong Kong’s downtown thoroughfares. Along with 12 other student activists arrested on Sep. 26, the Hong Kong police dragged a screaming, bleeding Wong away as he and others demonstrated outside government headquarters. Many were soon freed. Wong, however, remained in custody until Sep. 28, when a Hong Kong high court ordered his release, citing a lack of legal grounds for continued detention, over objections from government lawyers (paywall); the judge also quashed government efforts to attach conditions to Wong’s release, said his lawyer.
> 
> Scuffling with the police is the type of thing that usually leaves Hong Kong citizens wary of “politics.” But the students are now winning the sympathy of broader Hong Kong society. And regardless of how his approach to civil disobedience comes across, Wong’s recent arrest nonetheless symbolizes what makes Hong Kong different from the mainland: its rule of law.
> Separation of powers allowed the court to overrule government wishes to detain Wong for longer and release him conditionally. The court’s decision was based on a writ of habeas corpus, which guarantees the right to have a judge decide whether the authorities have lawful grounds for a person’s arrest.
> 
> Those protections don’t exist in mainland China, where rules are not conducted by law, but by government fiat. That said, mainland China relies heavily on Hong Kong as an international center of finance and commerce, which is only made possible by its strong property and contract rights. Unless Wong and his fellow students prevail, that rule of law the mainland depends on could soon disappear.
> 
> Meet the Hong Kong teenager who’s standing up to the Chinese Communist Party – Quartz




Excellent read ! Thank you for sharing with us.


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## halupridol

gutts


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## Aepsilons

I admire his passion, his ideologue. He reminds me of a young Dr. Sun Yat Sen.


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## longyi

I bet he already has a green card in his wallet and you won't see him around after this protest.

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## Aepsilons

longyi said:


> I bet he already has a green card in his wallet and you won't see him around after this protest.



Why should he leave for the U.S? The opportunities he has in Hong Kong is voluminous. There are westerners , even Japanese leaving for Hong Kong to attend college, even find work. If this young man really means what he says, then he'll stay in his native Hong Kong.


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## longyi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Why should he leave for the U.S? The opportunities he has in Hong Kong is voluminous. There are westerners , even Japanese leaving for Hong Kong to attend college, even find work. If this young man really means what he says, then he'll stay in his native Hong Kong.




Think deeper

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## Aepsilons

_By: Reiji Yoshida, 
Staff Writer at Japan Times_








In the past few days, high-ranking government officials were willing to discuss the importance of keeping Hong Kong stable, prosperous and free. The city is particularly important to the future of Japan and the Asia-Pacific region, they said.

But when pressed by reporters, they have been tight-lipped about whether they support the pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong and residents’ calls for universal suffrage. This has raised suspicions they are afraid of upsetting Beijing.

The four high-ranking government officials contacted by The Japan Times, two who spoke publicly and two who spoke separately on condition of anonymity, responded exactly the same way: by ducking the question.
This signals that not responding is the government’s official policy on the Hong Kong demonstrations.
Unlike the United States, Japan rarely criticizes China on human rights issues to avoid accusations by Beijing that Tokyo is interfering in its domestic affairs.

“The future of Hong Kong is extremely important to the future of Japan. The prosperity and stability of Hong Kong will play an important role for not only China, but also for the whole of Asia,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said Friday at a news conference.

But when asked whether Japan supports the street protests, as the U.S. White House officially did on Monday, he didn’t answer.

When pressed to clarify the government’s apparent policy of ignoring Chinese human rights issues, Suga finally said: “At any rate, we believe it’d be the best solution if the problem in Hong Kong is solved democratically in Hong Kong.”

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is trying to arrange a meeting with Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in November in Beijing. This is widely believed to be another reason for Tokyo’s restraint, though Suga denies it.

“We should not say any more (than what’s been officially said). That would be better,” one of the two anonymous officials said Friday.

“It shouldn’t be made clear” whether Japan supports the protest, the official said.
The two anonymous bureaucrats said Japan needs to keep an eye on the protest movement.
“How will China settle this issue? Nobody wants to settle it in a violent way,” one of them said.
“We are speaking in a very careful manner. This is a domestic issue of China,” the official said.

All four officials stressed Hong Kong’s economic importance to Japan. For many companies, the special administrative region has served as the gateway to the Chinese market, where both manufacturing companies and entertainment businesses can flourish by selling Japanese goods and culture.

Since 2007, Hong Kong has been the world’s top destination for Japanese food exports. Hong Kong imported ¥111 billion of those products in 2011, accounting for about one-fourth of Japan’s food exports.



Japanese officials silent on drama unfolding in Hong Kong | The Japan Times

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## Aepsilons

longyi said:


> Think deeper



If he is an agent of the US, then he should leave. If he is genuine in his concerns for Hong Kong, then he should stay.

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## mike2000

lool what do you want Japan to say/do? It has little or no influence in Hong Kong(don't forget they are also anti Japanese and have a hatred of Japans war crimes in Hong kong when Japan took them from us during world war II) unlike Taiwan who is pro Japan. So the main player in this is my country who colonised Hong kong for a hundred years and the U.S. We will keep the pressure/support to our pro democracy camp. 
Japan can offer verbal support though, it will be helpful in keeping the Chinese in check. Though they could also retaliate in Okinawa. But that's another topic.


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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> lool what do you want Japan to say/do? It has little or no influence in Hong Kong(don't forget they are also anti Japanese and have a hatred of Japans war crimes in Hong kong when Japan took them from us during world war II) unlike Taiwan who is pro Japan. So the main player in this is my country who colonised Hong kong for a hundred years and the U.S. We will keep the pressure/support to our pro democracy camp.
> Japan can offer verbal support though, it will be helpful in keeping the Chinese in check. Though they could also retaliate in Okinawa. But that's another topic.



It's just the US. Britain has no influence in Hong Kong and is irrelevant globally. Nice attempt to ride the US' coattails though. 6/10 for effort.

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## mike2000

AgentOrange said:


> It's just the US. Britain has no influence in Hong Kong and is irrelevant globally. Nice attempt to ride the US' coattails though. 6/10 for effort.



Britain has no influence in Hong kong?? Tell you the truth, we do have, even more than the U.S when it comes to Hong Kong. Maybe Chinese Dragon can expantiate on this for you.


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## powastick

That boy doesn't know anything about democracy. 17 years old don't know the world works. In Malaysia, opposition have zero representation despite having substantial seats. Then you have those poor folks, easily sway with money, false promises and sweet talks. Government less than 2/3 majority is crippling. Ruling faction will then spend recklessly to win support scarifying the future. Instead of 20-50 year plan, you have 5 years plans that gears towards winning election. You want free press, think again, CNN is as bad as RT. CNN reporting half truth, twisted truth, and extremely bias.

Triads? Yes we have triads in Malaysia, and they influence politician. Malaysian Chinese politician have to pay respect from them to get support. In democracy, you get all sorts of people influencing the government especially those with some power and money. There is no democracy, you'll have oligarchy. There is no power to the people. They always say the grass is greener on the other side.

I applaud the American into making democracy into a fanatical cult. Americans thinking themselves to be like Jesus. You aint Jesus when you murder millions and cause two people to fight each other. That is the devils job.

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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> ....................But that's another topic.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Nihonjin1051 said:


>



I think he means China can support the free-Okinawa movement.

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## Aepsilons

Peter C said:


> I think he means China can support the free-Okinawa movement.



I think this is one of the reasons why our side is silent. We hope the Chinese side would remember this.

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## AgentOrange

*Here are some pictures showing the friends of that 17 year old effeminate little boy. They're crying like little b*tches because the grownups in Hong Kong got fed up with their anti-China shenanigans and laid the smack down.  *

*This is no longer China's century of humiliation. And your average Chinese person hates hanjian race traitors with a passion. That skinny little sellout better enjoy his 15 minutes of fame now. Chinese people know how much damage traitors have done to China in the past. When the cameras are off, he'll have a big target on his back. *





*






ASSOCIATED PRESS
Student protesters are overwhelmed with emotions as they hold onto their tent while being threatened by residents and pro-Beijing supporters in Kowloon's crowded Mong Kok district, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014 in Hong Kong. Clashes broke out Friday as Hong Kong residents and pro-Beijing supporters tried to force pro-democracy activists from the streets they were occupying, reviving the possibility that the weeklong standoff could turn violent despite and attempt by the city's leader to defuse the situation. (AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)





ALEX OGLE via Getty Images
A man is held back by police as he screams at pro-democracy protesters to stop occupying an area of the Causeway Bay district of Hong Kong on October 3, 2014. Hong Kong has been plunged into the worst political crisis since its 1997 handover as pro-democracy activists take over the streets following China's refusal to grant citizens full universal suffrage. AFP PHOTO / ALEX OGLE (Photo credit should read Alex Ogle/AFP/Getty Images)





ASSOCIATED PRESS
A student protester is overwhelmed with emotions as they are threatened by residents and pro-Beijing supporters in Kowloon's crowded Mong Kok district, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014 in Hong Kong. Clashes broke out Friday as Hong Kong residents and pro-Beijing supporters tried to force pro-democracy activists from the streets they were occupying, reviving the possibility that the weeklong standoff could turn violent despite and attempt by the city's leader to defuse the situation. (AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)





ASSOCIATED PRESS
A student protester is injured after being pulled off and hit by residents and pro-Beijing supporters while local police are escorting him out of the protest area in Kowloon's crowded Mong Kok district, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014 in Hong Kong. Clashes broke out Friday as Hong Kong residents and pro-Beijing supporters tried to force pro-democracy activists from the streets they were occupying, reviving the possibility that the weeklong standoff could turn violent despite and attempt by the city's leader to defuse the situation. (AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)





Chris McGrath via Getty Images
HONG KONG - OCTOBER 03: Local residents and pro-government supporters scream at pro-democracy protesters on October 3, 2014 in Mong Kok, Hong Kong. Fights broke out between local residents and pro government supporters when they attempted to force pro-democracy activists from their protest site. Thousands of pro democracy supporters continue to occupy the streets surrounding Hong Kong's Financial district. Protest leaders have set an October 1st deadline for their demands to be met and are calling for open elections and the resignation of Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. (Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)





ASSOCIATED PRESS
A pro-democracy protester is taken away by police offers as an ambulance tries to leave the compound of the chief executive office in Hong Kong, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014. Hong Kong protesters on Friday welcomed an overnight offer by the territory's leader of talks to defuse the crisis over demonstrations seeking democratic reforms, though they continued to demand he resign and maintained barricades around government headquarters, frustrating staff going to work. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)





ASSOCIATED PRESS
A pro-democracy student protester, left, is pressed by angry locals trying to remove the barricades blocking streets in Causeway Bay, Hong Kong, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014. Hong Kong protest leaders on Friday welcomed an offer by the territory's leader of talks to defuse the crisis over demonstrations seeking democratic reforms, though they continued to demand he resign and maintained barricades around government headquarters, frustrating staff going to work. (AP Photo/Wally Santana)





Chris McGrath via Getty Images
HONG KONG - OCTOBER 03: An injured pro-democracy activist is carried back to a tent for medical treatment after clashing with local residents and pro-government supporters on October 3, 2014 in Mong Kok, Hong Kong. Fights broke out between local residents and pro government supporters when they attempted to force pro-democracy activists from their protest site. Thousands of pro democracy supporters continue to occupy the streets surrounding Hong Kong's Financial district. Protest leaders have set an October 1st deadline for their demands to be met and are calling for open elections and the resignation of Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. (Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)







Chris McGrath via Getty Images
HONG KONG - OCTOBER 03: Local residents and pro-government supporters scream at pro-democracy protesters on October 3, 2014 in Mong Kok, Hong Kong. Fights broke out between local residents and pro government supporters when they attempted to force pro-democracy activists from their protest site. Thousands of pro democracy supporters continue to occupy the streets surrounding Hong Kong's Financial district. Protest leaders have set an October 1st deadline for their demands to be met and are calling for open elections and the resignation of Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. (Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)





ALEX OGLE via Getty Images
A group of men in masks beat up a man (R) who tried to stop them from removing barricades from a pro-democracy protest area in the Causeway Bay district of Hong Kong on October 3, 2014. Hong Kong has been plunged into the worst political crisis since its 1997 handover as pro-democracy activists take over the streets following China's refusal to grant citizens full universal suffrage. AFP PHOTO / ALEX OGLE (Photo credit should read Alex Ogle/AFP/Getty Images)
*

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## mike2000

Peter C said:


> I think he means China can support the free-Okinawa movement.



You seem to understand the topic at hand more than my good geo strategist Friend Nihonji san. Yes i indeed meant Free Okinawa movement.


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## Götterdämmerung

AgentOrange said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of men in masks beat up a man (R) who tried to stop them from removing barricades from a pro-democracy protest area in the Causeway Bay district of Hong Kong on October 3, 2014. Hong Kong has been plunged into the worst political crisis since its 1997 handover as pro-democracy activists take over the streets following China's refusal to grant citizens full universal suffrage. AFP PHOTO / ALEX OGLE (Photo credit should read Alex Ogle/AFP/Getty Images)*



Why do they need to say residents *and* pro-government supporters all the time. The residents are obviously angry that these *Gucci* bag holding demonstrators are obstructing their daily life.

Honestly, I have never met a demonstrator in all my life in Europe going to a demonstration holding a Gucci bag. When I saw that pic, I really had to  very hard.

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## terranMarine

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I think this is one of the reasons why our side is silent. We hope the Chinese side would remember this.


It does not matter even if we know Japan doesn't utter a word in regards to the current unrest in HK. China's policy has always been very clear about foreign domestic issue. Japan has more to lose than to gain if it wishes to interfere with China's matters on the other hand China will not suffer even if the government would voice its support for an independent Okinawa (not that we are gonna interfere). So no, China doesn't owe Japan a thing

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## INDIC

How protests suddenly erupted in Hongkong.



AgentOrange said:


> It's just the US. Britain has no influence in Hong Kong and is irrelevant globally. Nice attempt to ride the US' coattails though. 6/10 for effort.



I had talked to some Hongkongers who were claiming that they were better under British rule than as a part of PRC.

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## terranMarine

INDIC said:


> How protests suddenly erupted in Hongkong.
> 
> I had talked to some Hongkongers who were claiming that they were better under British rule than as a part of PRC.



And some Indians told me your people were better off under the British Empire  You gonna believe that some individuals represent the reality?

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## AgentOrange

INDIC said:


> How protests suddenly erupted in Hongkong.
> 
> 
> 
> I had talked to some Hongkongers who were claiming that they were better under British rule than as a part of PRC.



It's the economy. Under the British, HKers had less freedom than they do now. But China was also less developed and therefore Hong Kong mattered more to the Chinese economy. So no complaints about democracy or lack thereof. Convenient eh? I think someone posted a thread that showed how Hong Kong's economy, relatively speaking, went from being 18% of China's to less than 3% now. Not because the British did anything special - they've always treated non-whites as 2nd class citizens (As an Indian, you probably know about the British and their arrogance) - but because China is richer now.

Hong Kong's usefulness as a financial hub is being eclipsed by mainland Chinese cities, most notably Shanghai. Add to that the fact that most Hong Kongers don't speak mandarin, have a hard time competing, and suddenly see their "poor brothers" on the Mainland getting richer and you end up with a lot of frustration.

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## INDIC

terranMarine said:


> And some Indians told me your people were better off under the British Empire  You gonna believe that some individuals represent the reality?



We didn't see the light of communism.


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## AgentOrange

Götterdämmerung said:


> Why do they need to say residents *and* pro-government supporters all the time. The residents are obviously angry that these *Gucci* bag holding demonstrators are obstructing their daily life.
> 
> Honestly, I have never met a demonstrator in all my life in Europe going to a demonstration holding a Gucci bag. When I saw that pic, I really had to  very hard.



It's the western media's way of discrediting anything that doesn't jive with their propaganda. Anyone against "democracy" must be paid by commies. Of course that's clearly not the case and the irony of it all is that many of those democracy "protesters" *are actually* funded and led by American operatives. And we have pictorial evidence of that. But hypocrisy has never stopped white journalists from gloating in the past and it won't now.

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## Hamartia Antidote

AgentOrange said:


> they've always treated non-whites as 2nd class citizens (As an Indian, you probably know about the British and their arrogance).



Hey they treated plenty of whites as 2nd class citizens too...sort of had a revolution about it.

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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> Britain has no influence in Hong kong?? Tell you the truth, we do have, even more than the U.S when it comes to Hong Kong. Maybe Chinese Dragon can expantiate on this for you.



You really don't. And I mean not even a little.

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## terranMarine

INDIC said:


> We didn't see the light of communism.


And that is why the supa powa India 2030 will not emerge

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## AgentOrange

Peter C said:


> Hey they treated plenty of non-whites as 2nd class citizens too...sort of had a revolution about it.



Yeah, I seem to recall that little revolution. They sure underestimated those "ragamuffins" didn't they? Surprise of their lives. And now they serve *you* tea. History is funny that way.

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## INDIC

AgentOrange said:


> hey've always treated non-whites as 2nd class citizens (As an Indian, you probably know about the British and their arrogance) - but because China is richer now.



Among Indians, the hate for the legacy of British rule runs deep, by 1947 they left nothing in India's economy irrespective how much general Brits try to whitewash it. But it quite baffling to see Honkongers admiring British rule, may be because of the huge economy Brits left for them.



terranMarine said:


> And that is why the supa powa India 2030 will not emerge



Because communism didn't come to us.


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## AgentOrange

INDIC said:


> Among Indians, the hate for the legacy of British rule runs deep, by 1947 they left nothing in India's economy irrespective how much general Brits try to whitewash it. But it quite baffling to see Honkongers admiring British rule, may be because of the huge economy Brits left for them.



Bear in mind that the occupy protests, as vocal and disruptive as they are, do not represent the majority of Hong Kongers. In fact, we're starting to see some backlash against those agitators. Check out the pictures of the counterprotesters that I posted.

But as with any colonized areas, you'll always have some people who are self-loathing and have self-esteem issues where they worship their former masters with slavish devotion. It's Stockholm syndrome on a wide scale and China and India would do well to ruthlessly stamp it out.

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## mike2000

Peter C said:


> Hey they treated plenty of whites as 2nd class citizens too...sort of had a revolution about it.


Exactly, he wants to turn it into a white supremancy stuff as usual, to show how asians have been marginalised/considered inferior by the 'hegemonistic evil west '. Lool

He doesnt even know that we treated even the U.S the same way when we were in control of the country. the U.S had to go through a brutal independence war(helped by the french traitors., if not they would have been under our rule for far longer) against us before it could get its independence after which it also went through a brutal civil war. So all wasnt that rosy. So its not just like we treated just 'asians' that way. Ask even ireland, they will tell you more.

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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> He doesnt even know that we treated even the U.S the same way when we were in control of the country. teh U.S had to go through a brutal independence war(helped by the french traitors., if not they would have been under our rule for far longer) against us before it could get its independence after which itbalso went through a brutal civil war. So all wasnt that rosy. So its not just like we treated just 'asians' that way. Ask even ireland, they will tell you more.



No Taxation without Representation! 

As what that famous Yankee named Patrick Henry said, "Give me Liberty or give me Death!"



mike2000 said:


> Exactly, he wants to turn it into a white supremancy stuff as usual, to show how asians have been marginalised/considered inferior by the 'hegemonistic evil west '. Lool
> 
> He doesnt even know that we treated even the U.S the same way when we were in control of the country. the U.S had to go through a brutal independence war(helped by the french traitors., if not they would have been under our rule for far longer) against us before it could get its independence after which it also went through a brutal civil war. So all wasnt that rosy. So its not just like we treated just 'asians' that way. Ask even ireland, they will tell you more.



Gotta admit, my friend, how in the world did a bunch of rag tag colonial militia were able to best the most powerful professional Army in the day, the British Army, just really impresses me.


----------



## Götterdämmerung

AgentOrange said:


> It's the western media's way of discrediting anything that doesn't jive with their propaganda. Anyone against "democracy" must be paid by commies. Of course that's clearly not the case and the irony of it all is that many of those democracy "protesters" *are actually* funded and led by American operatives. And we have pictorial evidence of that. But hypocrisy has never stopped white journalists from gloating in the past and it won't now.




I know that, buddy.

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## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> It's the western media's way of discrediting anything that doesn't jive with their propaganda. Anyone against "democracy" must be paid by commies. Of course that's clearly not the case and the irony of it all is that many of those democracy "protesters" *are actually* funded and led by American operatives. And we have pictorial evidence of that. But hypocrisy has never stopped white journalists from gloating in the past and it won't now.



One could apply the same reciprocity, too. How some members in China view those who are pro-democracy as a western-funded, western-taught "Hanjian" race traitors.


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## AgentOrange

Nihonjin1051 said:


> One could apply the same reciprocity, too. How some members in China view those who are pro-democracy as a wester-funded, western-taught "Hanjian" race traitors.



Normally, I'd say touche.  But in this case, we have photos of occupy protesters meeting with agents from the US embassy. A little suspicion is warranted to say the least but judging from past American attempts to destabilize China (including the CIA arming Tibetan rebels in the 60s), most Chinese people are past giving American actions the benefit of the doubt.

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## AgentOrange

Peter C said:


> For the record that's a UC Davis campus police spraying them (basically a security guard) not a real police officer.



He's still technically a police officer and got away with that particular incident without any serious repercussions. Imagine the crap he gets away with when there aren't hundreds of cameras filming his actions. This happens way too often nowadays, IMO. An increasingly militarized police are treating people - all people who aren't police- like the enemy and they are only too quick to up the force escalation continuum at the slightest provocation.

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## scholseys

The Chinese police appear to be useless, they should have learned from the American police in Fergusen and the occupy wall street officers. even toronto police have that a bigger fear factor than these chinese police.

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## Huan

Nihonjin1051 said:


> One could apply the same reciprocity, too. How some members in China view those who are pro-democracy as a western-funded, western-taught "Hanjian" race traitors.


*Well the fact is:

1. Most of those pro-democracy activists see themselves as higher beings above the Chinese mainlanders ("locusts" as they are callled). Thus, they called themselves Hong Kongese or Hong Kongers instead of Chinese. They see themselves as different, civilized, well-mannered, and clean as compared to the mainlanders. Many of them want the visitng mainlander tourists and new mainlander settlers to "go back to China!" Even though Hong Kong belongs to mainland China overall.

2. They have a very westernized mindset. They tremendously worship the western laws and western core values overwhelmingly above Asia's own domestic laws. Many of their political ideals come from the United States and Europe (especially British laws). The Hong Kong schools that these activists enrolled in as they grew up could have also imposed those ideals.*

*Overall, they were raised in a westernized, globalized gated environment in Hong Kong with frequent close contact to Westerners.*

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## northeast

AgentOrange said:


> *Here are some pictures showing the friends of that 17 year old effeminate little boy. They're crying like little b*tches because the grownups in Hong Kong got fed up with their anti-China shenanigans and laid the smack down.  *
> 
> *This is no longer China's century of humiliation. And your average Chinese person hates hanjian race traitors with a passion. That skinny little sellout better enjoy his 15 minutes of fame now. Chinese people know how much damage traitors have done to China in the past. When the cameras are off, he'll have a big target on his back. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> View attachment 107866
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
> Student protesters are overwhelmed with emotions as they hold onto their tent while being threatened by residents and pro-Beijing supporters in Kowloon's crowded Mong Kok district, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014 in Hong Kong. Clashes broke out Friday as Hong Kong residents and pro-Beijing supporters tried to force pro-democracy activists from the streets they were occupying, reviving the possibility that the weeklong standoff could turn violent despite and attempt by the city's leader to defuse the situation. (AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107867
> ALEX OGLE via Getty Images
> A man is held back by police as he screams at pro-democracy protesters to stop occupying an area of the Causeway Bay district of Hong Kong on October 3, 2014. Hong Kong has been plunged into the worst political crisis since its 1997 handover as pro-democracy activists take over the streets following China's refusal to grant citizens full universal suffrage. AFP PHOTO / ALEX OGLE (Photo credit should read Alex Ogle/AFP/Getty Images)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107868
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
> A student protester is overwhelmed with emotions as they are threatened by residents and pro-Beijing supporters in Kowloon's crowded Mong Kok district, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014 in Hong Kong. Clashes broke out Friday as Hong Kong residents and pro-Beijing supporters tried to force pro-democracy activists from the streets they were occupying, reviving the possibility that the weeklong standoff could turn violent despite and attempt by the city's leader to defuse the situation. (AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107869
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
> A student protester is injured after being pulled off and hit by residents and pro-Beijing supporters while local police are escorting him out of the protest area in Kowloon's crowded Mong Kok district, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014 in Hong Kong. Clashes broke out Friday as Hong Kong residents and pro-Beijing supporters tried to force pro-democracy activists from the streets they were occupying, reviving the possibility that the weeklong standoff could turn violent despite and attempt by the city's leader to defuse the situation. (AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107870
> Chris McGrath via Getty Images
> HONG KONG - OCTOBER 03: Local residents and pro-government supporters scream at pro-democracy protesters on October 3, 2014 in Mong Kok, Hong Kong. Fights broke out between local residents and pro government supporters when they attempted to force pro-democracy activists from their protest site. Thousands of pro democracy supporters continue to occupy the streets surrounding Hong Kong's Financial district. Protest leaders have set an October 1st deadline for their demands to be met and are calling for open elections and the resignation of Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. (Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107871
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
> A pro-democracy protester is taken away by police offers as an ambulance tries to leave the compound of the chief executive office in Hong Kong, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014. Hong Kong protesters on Friday welcomed an overnight offer by the territory's leader of talks to defuse the crisis over demonstrations seeking democratic reforms, though they continued to demand he resign and maintained barricades around government headquarters, frustrating staff going to work. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107872
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
> A pro-democracy student protester, left, is pressed by angry locals trying to remove the barricades blocking streets in Causeway Bay, Hong Kong, Friday, Oct. 3, 2014. Hong Kong protest leaders on Friday welcomed an offer by the territory's leader of talks to defuse the crisis over demonstrations seeking democratic reforms, though they continued to demand he resign and maintained barricades around government headquarters, frustrating staff going to work. (AP Photo/Wally Santana)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107873
> Chris McGrath via Getty Images
> HONG KONG - OCTOBER 03: An injured pro-democracy activist is carried back to a tent for medical treatment after clashing with local residents and pro-government supporters on October 3, 2014 in Mong Kok, Hong Kong. Fights broke out between local residents and pro government supporters when they attempted to force pro-democracy activists from their protest site. Thousands of pro democracy supporters continue to occupy the streets surrounding Hong Kong's Financial district. Protest leaders have set an October 1st deadline for their demands to be met and are calling for open elections and the resignation of Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. (Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107874
> Chris McGrath via Getty Images
> HONG KONG - OCTOBER 03: Local residents and pro-government supporters scream at pro-democracy protesters on October 3, 2014 in Mong Kok, Hong Kong. Fights broke out between local residents and pro government supporters when they attempted to force pro-democracy activists from their protest site. Thousands of pro democracy supporters continue to occupy the streets surrounding Hong Kong's Financial district. Protest leaders have set an October 1st deadline for their demands to be met and are calling for open elections and the resignation of Hong Kong's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. (Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)
> 
> 
> View attachment 107875
> ALEX OGLE via Getty Images
> A group of men in masks beat up a man (R) who tried to stop them from removing barricades from a pro-democracy protest area in the Causeway Bay district of Hong Kong on October 3, 2014. Hong Kong has been plunged into the worst political crisis since its 1997 handover as pro-democracy activists take over the streets following China's refusal to grant citizens full universal suffrage. AFP PHOTO / ALEX OGLE (Photo credit should read Alex Ogle/AFP/Getty Images)
> *


Funny pics，Such a bunch of pussies won't achieve anything.

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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> Ask even ireland, they will tell you more.



Come to think about it, after watching some episodes of "Outlander", you guys weren't rosy to the Scots, either.

OT: Can't wait for the next upcoming episode this Saturday. Claire gets rescued....


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## mike2000

Nihonjin1051 said:


> No Taxation without Representation!
> 
> As what that famous Yankee named Patrick Henry said, "Give me Liberty or give me Death!"
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta admit, my friend, how in the world did a bunch of rag tag colonial militia were able to best the most powerful professional Army in the day, the British Army, just really impresses me.



Well it wasnt all that way bro. We were fighting not just the rag tag american militias led by general washington who was the commander in chief of the continental army but we were also fighting the french who had more allies than us throughout the war in american continent.this started when the British army from Canada was captured by the Americans, then the French entered the war as allies of the United States. The naval and military power of the two sides were about equal, and France had allies in the Netherlands and Spain, while Britain had no major allies in this large-scale war. The war later turned to the American South, where we captured an army at South Carolina, but failed we unfotunately failed to enlist enough volunteers from american loyalists(who were still un favor of our rule) to maintain/rule the city. In short there were several factors at play, aa we were fighting not just the militias of george washington but also france supported by its allies back then.
Its indeed a longg story lool



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Come to think about it, after watching some episodes of "Outlander", you guys weren't rosy to the Scots, either.
> 
> OT: Can't wait for the next upcoming episode this Saturday. Claire gets rescued....



Lool lmao. You do know and even watch outlander? 
You never seize to amaze me my friend nihonji. You are indeed well informed.


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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> Lool lmao. You do know and even watch outlander?
> You never seize to amaze me my friend nihonji. You are indeed well informed.



I am, indeed, a fan of Mrs. Claire Beacham of Oxfordshire! Hahahaha. What I would do if i could kiss those pink British lips... 

Ehem. Anyways. Back to topic.


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## Beidou2020

Find him and his family, kill them all.

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## terranMarine

INDIC said:


> Among Indians, the hate for the legacy of British rule runs deep, by 1947 they left nothing in India's economy irrespective how much general Brits try to whitewash it. But it quite baffling to see Honkongers admiring British rule, may be because of the huge economy Brits left for them.



I don't believe so, why a group of HK people prefer British rule is unclear. Under the British rule, there were lots of injustice in society, inequality, corrupt cops. That is why ICAC was created in 1974, maybe this led to a positive view of the British rule? Somewhere in 1984 (if i'm correct) Thatcher met Deng to discuss about the handover of HK but to maintain rule over HK or HK island. Deng could not believe what he had heard and warned her he could send the PLA to HK. Thatcher understood China is not Argentina and had no choice but to accept Deng's one country and two systems proposal. Then came the 1989 student protest in Beijing which got HK citizens worried. Probably the Cultural Revolution and the student protest were gloomy prospects awaiting them reside somewhere in their psyche. Those with cash left HK or bought overseas properties just in case something goes wrong. Years had passed, no lack of freedom, still very stable financial hub. Plenty who had left returned home.

There was a time under British rule where HK locals could not live in certain parts of HK island, never had the right to choose their governor. Now these brainwashed people are talking about lack of freedom under PRC, who are they trying to kid? It's no secret American and British NGO bribed some influential people just to cause chaos.

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## Beidou2020

China's Communist Party has been proven to be weak and spineless unable to defend its own territory from foreigners.
Chinese intelligence has proven to be ineffective as they couldn't identify and prevent this protest by these terrorists.
Chinese police has proven to be even weaker unable to control terrorists in Hong Kong.

This is a complete failure on the part of China.

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## bolo

Hello, meet Joshua Wong the little runt who has ruined his future in Hong Kong. Good luck Joshua while trying to land a job in any government institution.

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## Huan

bolo said:


> Hello, meet Joshua Wong the little runt who has ruined his future in Hong Kong. Good luck Joshua while trying to land a job in any government institution.


He is going to be a risky liability for any governmental agency that hires him. If they hired him.

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## ChineseTiger1986

This kid has some serious learning disability, so he thinks that he may have a better career as a protestor than studying.

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## Europa

coolies describing their own physical traits, lol

see from 3:5


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## terranMarine

bolo said:


> Hello, meet Joshua Wong the little runt who has ruined his future in Hong Kong. Good luck Joshua while trying to land a job in any government institution.



He could be elected as a member of the legislative council like 長毛

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## AgentOrange

Beidou2020 said:


> Find him and his family, kill them all.



Dude. Over the top.

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## bolo

terranMarine said:


> He could be elected as a member of the legislative council like 長毛


Hairy *** clown.

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## bolo

TheMatador said:


> Never underestimate the enemy. They are already on the payroll of foreign governments. Consider them zombies with no autonomous thinking but only remote controlled. A small army of zombies.
> 
> The only way to deal with an army of zombies is brutal force! Make sure everybody is hurt, screaming and crying.
> 
> If non-lethal force does not work to re-program their mind, the zombies they must be captured and imprisoned until a cure can be found.


Chainsaw work well against zombies

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## Kolaps

US is going to embargo Japan!

The punishment will come!

Treacherous act!






> “At any rate, we believe it’d be the best solution if the problem in Hong Kong is solved *democratically *in Hong Kong.”



Just kidding.


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## Europa

Beidou2020 said:


> China's Communist Party has been proven to be weak and spineless unable to defend its own territory from foreigners.
> Chinese *intelligence* has proven to be ineffective as they couldn't identify and prevent this protest by these terrorists.
> Chinese police has proven to be even weaker unable to control terrorists in Hong Kong.
> 
> This is a complete failure on the part of China.



largest intelligence failure ever. 
unimaginable 
was there any bureaucracy at all? 
forget students, how could they fail to trace university professors and foreigners instigating people? 
i am clueless, how could this in such magnitude happen over night


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## Kolaps

^
Why should old people make the decision?

Why not 17 years old kid?

Why?




> Incoming pro-democracy demonstrators later reversed the numbers so it was the pro-Beijing protesters who were protected by a ring of police, including some with riot gear.



When policemen protect pro-democracy protestors they don't wear riot gear.

But when protecting pro-Beijing protestors against pro-democracy, suddenly riot gear appear!

Can someone explain the magic behind it?




qwerrty said:


> anti-occupy mob. mostly old people



Why not 17 years old boy?

It's very weird, isn't?

17 years old boy should make the decision, not old people.

The is the real democracy.


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## AgentOrange

Kolaps said:


> ^
> Why should old people make the decision?
> 
> Why not 17 years old kid?
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When policemen protect pro-democracy protestors they don't wear riot gear.
> 
> But when protecting pro-Beijing protestors against pro-democracy, suddenly riot gear appear!
> 
> Can someone explain the magic behind it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not 17 years old boy?
> 
> It's very weird, isn't?
> 
> 17 years old boy should make the decision, not old people.
> 
> The is the real democracy.



How old does someone have to be to vote in Taiwan? 18? Why not 17? Why? Democracy! Why? Why not Zoidberg? Why 17 and not democraZoidberg? Why not 8 years old boy be president of Taiwan? Taiwan not democracy? Weird? Why!? Democrafreedom!

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## Kolaps

AgentOrange said:


> If that's the conclusion you came to, you have reading comprehension issues.



Yes, from the *UK* Guardian.


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## aliaselin

Compared to their American colleagues, Hong Kong policemen are very unprofessional





Also much lagging behind England





Even can not match Sweden
Hong Kong policemen must learn more from the advanced country. It is still a long way

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## Aepsilons

Kolaps said:


> US is going to embargo Japan!
> 
> The punishment will come!
> 
> Treacherous act!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding.




Don't be absurd, my Taiwanese friend.



mike2000 said:


> Well it wasnt all that way bro. We were fighting not just the rag tag american militias led by general washington who was the commander in chief of the continental army but we were also fighting the french who had more allies than us throughout the war in american continent.this started when the British army from Canada was captured by the Americans, then the French entered the war as allies of the United States. The naval and military power of the two sides were about equal, and France had allies in the Netherlands and Spain, while Britain had no major allies in this large-scale war. The war later turned to the American South, where we captured an army at South Carolina, but failed we unfotunately failed to enlist enough volunteers from american loyalists(who were still un favor of our rule) to maintain/rule the city. In short there were several factors at play, aa we were fighting not just the militias of george washington but also france supported by its allies back then.



You're absolutely right, Mike-San. The American Revolutionary War did have a great many international participants. I do remember reading that the Dutch did provide a soft loan of some 5 million guilders to the American patriot named John Adams, a man from Massachusetts. The French provided military as well as economic aid. The Spanish also ended up at war with the British. No doubt the French came into the aid of the Americans to get back at the British for the disaster during the French and Indian War of the 1760's.


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## TaiShang

AgentOrange said:


> About 1,000 people opposed to pro-democracy movement fight 100 demonstrators after Leung Chun-ying’s talks offer



"About 1000 people"? Low-life China hating Western scum! 

*Business in Hong Kong seriously affected by protests*

Nearly a week of protests in Hong Kong have proved costly for the Special Administrative Region. Over two billion Hong Kong Dollars in losses already, including a number of businesses unable to function. CCTV reporter Zhu Dan reports on how a regional finance hub is taking a beating, due to prolonged demonstrations.

In Central Hong Kong, it is business as unusual these days. This watch retailer which has been here for over 40 years, reported its sharpest ever decline for sales in one week, losing as much as 39 thousand US dollars of sales on a given day.

*"We have lost about 200,000-300,000 HK dollars in the past five to six days. I respect that they are fighting for democracy, but they should also understand that we will be bitter if we aren’t allowed to do business," said Gary Wai, manager of Broadway Watch and Jewellery.*

For four days this store remained closed as swarms of Occupy Central protestors thronged the streets. As the crowds grew louder in their protests, business for everyone else here grinded to a near standstill.

Some of stores have been closed, also at least 21 banks say they have closed their branches, offices or ATMs. Many businesses in the central area remain shut. Schools have been closed and buses have had to change or cancel routes. ”

What was Hong Kong’s thriving hustle and bustle in central have been replaced by chanting of youths. According to ANZ, these protests have come at a cost of 2.2 billion HKD or 6 percent of total retail sales for the month.

It’s not just consumers who are backing away, even investors are feeling the jitters.

*The Hang Seng Index tanked to a three-month low this week. Most financial experts believe that’s a direct impact of the current protests. US wealth management company, Merrill Lynch, estimates that the disruption caused by the protest has already caused a loss of 500 million US dollars to Hong Kong’s economy.*

“I think they’re rocking the fundamental belief that HK should be ruled by rule of law. *What they’re doing is exactly against the law, but they uphold this sort of democracy saying that they’re doing it for the entire HK. But I think we’ve seen the previous poll that there’re actully more people are against the Occupy Central than people who’re agree to it. Yet, I think those people who’re Occupying Central completely ignore the staistics, and they went ahead anyway,” David Lau, managing director of J.P. Morgan, said. *

Hong Kong is home to more than 3700 offices for multi-national companies and economists fear that some may decide to move their business out to other cities should Occupy Central persist--That would surely dent business and consumer confidence at large.

But as for Gary Wai, who has been doing business here for 40 years, all he can do is wait and hopes the movement ends as soon as possible.

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## opruh

he need to eat more, the US should send some food to him.

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## Kolaps

AgentOrange said:


> How old does someone have to be to vote in Taiwan? 18? Why not 17? Why? Democracy! Why? Why not Zoidberg? Why 17 and not democraZoidberg? Why not 8 years old boy be president of Earth? Weird? Why!? Democrafreedom!



That is the question that I want to ask. 

The question asked by CNN, FoxNews, the Guardian, etc.


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## TaiShang

*UK scholar: Hong Kong never had democracy under British rule*

[Interestingly, the You Tube video embedded in the news cannot be viewed. You may check it here] 

Martin Jacques, British author of the global best-seller “When China Rules the World: the End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order”, had quite a bit to say on what role Hong Kong should take when interacting with the Chinese mainland.

In an exclusive video interview with CCTVNEWS, *he said that Hong Kong under the British rule never enjoyed democracy and that Hong Kong should take the opportunity to be part of the Chinese economy, which is the world’s most dynamic and expansive one.*

“*For a hundred and fifty five years, the British ruled Hong Kong, and they never ever introduced universal suffrage”,* said the scholar.

“There’s an idealistic notion amongst a section of the Hong Kong Chinese that we should elect whoever we want to. For example, if he’s someone who’s against the Chinese government, well it doesn’t matter.”

“There were bits of suffrage, but they never introduced it, so Hong Kong under the British was never a democracy,” he said.

*“It was the Chinese government that gave Hong Kong the opportunity of electing their chief executive, by universal suffrage.”*

“I don’t think this is appreciated by too many Hong Kong Chinese,” he added.


*Latest update: officials offer talks with protestors*

Meanwhile in Hong Kong, thousands of protesters have blocked major roads in several districts since Sept. 28, to express discontent with the electoral reform package in Beijing choosing the region’s next candidate.

In response to an open letter initiated by one of the students protest groups, Hong Kong’s Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying announced late Thursday evening that he will not resign.

Instead, he will appoint Chief Secretary Carrie Lam as a government representative, to talk with students participating in the ongoing Occupy Central movement.

Leung hoped that all circles in society could continue to carry forward the constitutional reform in a pragmatic, rational and peaceful manner.

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## Infra_Man99

Desertfalcon said:


> Yes, that is why the USA is one of the most undesirable places to live and we have masses of Americans flooding into Mexico, China, India, and other countries. That is why America is so poor and why no one wants to live here. It's why we have no illegal immigrants. It's why no one ever risks their life to get to America or fight for it once they are there. It's why no one is trying to emulate America. It's why YOU obviously, don't live in America.
> 
> View attachment 107621
> 
> _I guess these proud new American citizens are just deluded..._



America is a declining superpower. You are basically a cheerleader for America's decline. Idiots or parasites like you are worsening America.

America's educational standards are becoming less competitive, yet, you boast that everything is wonderful.

America's economy is becoming less fair, more ineffective, more wasteful, more dependent on importing low intelligence cheap labor and outsourcing jobs, and more addicted to unhealthy consumption, yet, you insist everything is good.

America's community's are suffering from increasing kids born out of wedlock, more divorces, relatively high poverty rate for a developed nation, massive police spending that struggles to deal with America's high crime rate for a developed nation, and more kids and adults on psychiatric and recreational drugs, yet, you proclaim this is ideal.

America has the world's most expensive medical system, but the average America has mediocre health, and you are ignorantly proud of this.

America's political system is becoming more corrupt with legalized bribery and outrageous election costs, low approval ratings, and more demagoguery and less practical solutions, yet, you claim it's the best.

America's foreign policy is, by far, the most costly and becoming less effective, yet, you proclaim stay the course.

America is a young nation. This is one reason for why Americans have a strong tendency to focus too much on the short-term.

Lousy Americans like you are downgrading America into a turd world nation. Unfortunately, you are too dumb to realize this.

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## Aepsilons

TaiShang said:


> In response to an open letter initiated by one of the students protest groups, Hong Kong’s Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying announced late Thursday evening that he will not resign.
> Instead, he will appoint Chief Secretary Carrie Lam as a government representative, to talk with students participating in the ongoing Occupy Central movement.



A very wise move by Mr. C.Y. Leung ! Best of luck to this engagement. Best of luck to Ms. Lam, as well.

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## Huan

If the protests continue for another whole week, are the economic losses for Hong Kong going to double or will they be exponential??


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## Fukuoka

*Sept. 27: Leaving Classroom to Join Front Line*

Protesters, mainly students staging a weeklong boycott of classes, attempted to push back police officers at barricades outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong’s Central district on Saturday.




Protesters were surrounded by the police at the Civic Square, the public area in front of the government’s main offices.




A protester was taken away by the police after storming into the government building.




A protester raised a placard that read “Occupy Central” between the police and protesters outside the government headquarters.




An injured protester was treated after clashing with the police.




Protesters used barricades to block a road outside the government complex.





http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/01/world/asia/hong-kong-protest-photos.html


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## bolo

Infra_Man99 said:


> America is a declining superpower. You are basically a cheerleader for America's decline. Idiots or parasites like you are worsening America.
> 
> America's educational standards are becoming less competitive, yet, you boast that everything is wonderful.
> 
> America's economy is becoming less fair, more ineffective, more wasteful, more dependent on importing low intelligence cheap labor and outsourcing jobs, and more addicted to unhealthy consumption, yet, you insist everything is good.
> 
> America's community's are suffering from increasing kids born out of wedlock, more divorces, relatively high poverty rate for a developed nation, massive police spending that struggles to deal with America's high crime rate for a developed nation, and more kids and adults on psychiatric and recreational drugs, yet, you proclaim this is ideal.
> 
> America has the world's most expensive medical system, but the average America has mediocre health, and you are ignorantly proud of this.
> 
> America's political system is becoming more corrupt with legalized bribery and outrageous election costs, low approval ratings, and more demagoguery and less practical solutions, yet, you claim it's the best.
> 
> America's foreign policy is, by far, the most costly and becoming less effective, yet, you proclaim stay the course.
> 
> America is a young nation. This is one reason for why Americans have a strong tendency to focus too much on the short-term.
> 
> Lousy Americans like you are downgrading America into a turd world nation. Unfortunately, you are too dumb to realize this.


Just let the Americans keep doing what your posted.

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## TaiShang

Peter C said:


> For the record that's a UC Davis campus police spraying them (basically a security guard) not a real police officer.



That's not a police?






Or this?

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## terranMarine

In the mean time life continues for Mainland enjoying their holiday. Economy still going strong, only citizens in HK are affected by these clueless coolies. Being used by White people to promote their hidden agenda 
But i have 100% faith it will be cracked down by law enforcers and the majority of the HK citizens who are fervently against these trouble seekers.

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## Kolaps

TaiShang said:


> *UK scholar: Hong Kong never had democracy under British rule*
> 
> [Interestingly, the You Tube video embedded in the news cannot be viewed. You may check it here]
> 
> Martin Jacques, British author of the global best-seller “When China Rules the World: the End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order”, had quite a bit to say on what role Hong Kong should take when interacting with the Chinese mainland.
> 
> .................................................



I tell you the reason.

Just look at HK Silent Majority, that is why!

British know, that is why they never give it.


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## TaiShang

*Anti-Occupy Mob Trashes Hong Kong Protest Site (TIME, US)*

*****

*LOL. According to these imperialists, only occupiers can occupy, but, never occupied. *

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## bolo

Is the OP Hindu being funny? I watched the Chinese news today. Six HK thugs scared the shit out of hundreds of protestors haha. One student was interviewed and whimpered like a little girl.

@opruh US should send them overnight congee because these weakling anti government protestors need it.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This kid has some serious learning disability, so he thinks that he may have a better career as a protestor than studying.


The scrawny nerd need to hit the gym , do some kung fu and eat more McD's.

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## TaiShang

Expect the number growing over the weekend if the occupy mobs insist on harming local economy.


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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> View attachment 108272
> 
> 
> Expect the number growing over the weekend if the occupy mobs insist on harming local economy.



Even the HK 黑社會大佬 are angry. They send six guys to do the work for now. More will come as it's hurting their business.

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## bolo

JSCh said:


> This people from HK doesn't seem to understand that their prosperity lies largely with China.
> They seem to think that the higher living standard that they have is due to only their own achievement.
> 
> China is growing, China is going through changes. China needs to undergo reform to adapt.
> All of this changes now and future would have effect on HK. Because HK is tiny compare to China, HK need to coordinate with China to take advantage of favorable conditions and to alleviate any ill effects.
> 
> There is no fundamental conflict of interest between China and HK. The relationship should be symbiotic. Letting political ideology to come between the relationship is really really stupid.
> HK need to stop seeing the relationship as some kind of competition, as power struggle between political ideology. There is no ulterior takeover of HK by China because of ideological reason. China only want control just in case.
> 
> HK need to be seen as giving a damn about the national interest of China and win the heart and support of Chinese mainlander.
> Because from mainlander point of view, this is not an incident when "HK dare to say NO", this is perpetual uncompromising "HK that only know how to say NO".
> As a member of a family, HK need to contribute to the family interest just like every other member of the family.
> Looking from the world of hard politics, HK available leverage is not really that great. The good will of China is one of them. Throwing it away is really not wise.
> China cannot stand still and wait for HK to come around. There are over 1 billion Chinese citizen to take care of. If HK continue this uncooperative and uncompromising attitude, it cannot be help that HK would be shunned/avoided in China's future planning. And that would be harmful to HK future well being.



The vast majority of people understand their destiny is intertwined with mainland. It's the stupid white worshipping young people who don't understand or give a shit. 
They need to be beaten maybe they will wake up.

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## terranMarine

bolo said:


> Even the HK 黑社會大佬 are angry. They send six guys to do the work for now. More will come as it's hurting their business.


 really? damn, they are more than welcome to punch these suckers to the ground

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## djsjs

yesterday I went to HK,feeling fewer tourists went there than before.and all TV news are about the chaos.


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## bolo

terranMarine said:


> really? damn, they are more than welcome to punch these suckers to the ground


There were some scuffle. One wimpy *** student was whimpering like a little girl after the incident while he was being interviewed.

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## terranMarine

bolo said:


> There were some scuffle. One wimpy *** student was whimpering like a little girl after the incident while he was being interviewed.


 i watched the local news too, didn't know the gangs would join in, but yeah i saw a few shedding tears in front of the camera during interview

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## bolo

terranMarine said:


> i watched the local news too, didn't know the gangs would join in, but yeah i saw a few shedding tears in front of the camera during interview


The kid said,"they shoved us and started the fight but blamed me for it...why did they do it... (sob)...(sob)..why blame (sob)...me?."

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## terranMarine

djsjs said:


> yesterday I went to HK,feeling fewer tourists went there than before.and all TV news are about the chaos.


mainland tourists would stay away for now, not surprised. Still in HK or left already?


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## TaiShang

bolo said:


> The kid said,"they shoved us and started the fight but blamed me for it...why did they do it... (sob)...(sob)..why blame (sob)...me?."



Then they are just lucky idiots that Beijing (where their sovereignty lies) has not shown teeth --not even a single one. LOL.

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## terranMarine

bolo said:


> The kid said,"they shoved us and started the fight but blamed me for it...why did they do it... (sob)...(sob)..why blame (sob)...me?."


Oh yeah i saw that one too 



TaiShang said:


> Then they are just lucky idiots that Beijing (where their sovereignty lies) has not shown teeth --not even a single one. LOL.


Beijng doesn't have to do a thing, the locals will come out and take care of business. If Beijng is gonna make a move, all the international media will be hanging all over it and start to invent stories again of how ruthless the Communists are just like 89.
Seems like the underworld is joining forces with Pro China HK citizens. No need for the PLA to move a finger.

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## bolo

terranMarine said:


> Beijng doesn't have to do a thing, the locals will come out and take care of business. If Beijng is gonna make a move, all the international media will be hanging all over it and start to invent stories again of how ruthless the Communists are just like 89.
> Seems like the underworld is joining forces with Pro China HK citizens. No need for the PLA to move a finger.


Image is not so important to China now. There is nothing China can do that will make the western world media side with them. Just do it.

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## nvKyleBrown

Infra_Man99 said:


> blah, blah, America is terrible, blah, blah



So, why are you still in the US? Are you a criminal and thus unable to emigrate? Most Asian countries have positions for native English tutors, so there is no "i don't have a job" excuse, even if you are completely unskilled.


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## terranMarine

bolo said:


> Image is not so important to China now. There is nothing China can do that will make the western world media side with them. Just do it.


For now, lets have some patience. The locals are rising up against them, the more business is affected the bigger the pain grow and an upsurge will emerge

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## Kolaps

aliaselin said:


> Compared to their American colleagues, Hong Kong policemen are very unprofessional
> 
> Also much lagging behind England
> 
> Even can not match Sweden
> Hong Kong policemen must learn more from the advanced country. It is still a long way



I love the writing style!


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## JayMandan

Got to respect those protesters' guts knowing China will do anything to stop them but still trying to hold their ground. I wonder how long they will last.


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## jha

Sorry to say but this was bound to happen. Fighting for democracy is all good but when it starts hurting livelihood of locals, they will get bitter.


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## Hamartia Antidote

TaiShang said:


> That's not a police?



I only meant the first pic a few pages back of a University California Campus Police officer spraying protestors sitting down.
UC Davis pepper-spray incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## onebyone

US Soldiers Kill CHILDREN in Iraq With 30mm Apache

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## key-CN

In addition to the traffic jam , no positive impact.Parents take their children back home.Poor minors in some way involved in the adult battle.

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## Desertfalcon

Infra_Man99 said:


> America is a declining superpower. You are basically a cheerleader for America's decline. Idiots or parasites like you are worsening America.
> 
> America's educational standards are becoming less competitive, yet, you boast that everything is wonderful.
> 
> America's economy is becoming less fair, more ineffective, more wasteful, more dependent on importing low intelligence cheap labor and outsourcing jobs, and more addicted to unhealthy consumption, yet, you insist everything is good.
> 
> America's community's are suffering from increasing kids born out of wedlock, more divorces, relatively high poverty rate for a developed nation, massive police spending that struggles to deal with America's high crime rate for a developed nation, and more kids and adults on psychiatric and recreational drugs, yet, you proclaim this is ideal.
> 
> America has the world's most expensive medical system, but the average America has mediocre health, and you are ignorantly proud of this.
> 
> America's political system is becoming more corrupt with legalized bribery and outrageous election costs, low approval ratings, and more demagoguery and less practical solutions, yet, you claim it's the best.
> 
> America's foreign policy is, by far, the most costly and becoming less effective, yet, you proclaim stay the course.
> 
> America is a young nation. This is one reason for why Americans have a strong tendency to focus too much on the short-term.
> 
> Lousy Americans like you are downgrading America into a turd world nation. Unfortunately, you are too dumb to realize this.


...and yet you suck off of America's bounty, live under America's protection, enjoy America's freedoms, and you have the_ chutzpah _to call ME a "parasite"!  Well, I don't know what you think you are trying to convince me of but those American flags under your screen name tells me everything I need to know; i.e., whiny little hypocrite not man enough to put his money where his mouth is and get out of the country he so despises. No, he will continue to live there and enjoy it's freedom and bounty and like a snivelling coward, then back-bite and trash talk about it. Buddy, you have absolutely ZERO credibility with me.

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## key-CN

Facts have proved that the U.S. itself is not democracy.In addition to the purchase of firearms freedom.Superstition democracy like suicide.

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## Europa



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## 来自未来

Kolaps said:


> Why should old people make the decision?
> Why not 17 years old kid?
> Why?


That you can ask the questions shows you are childishly simplistic.

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## Europa

upper house of indian parliament tv debate on hong kong in hindi


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## Europa

from scmp

*5.50pm:* Two government trucks carrying water and food supplies arrive in front of the chief executive's office to deliver supplies to police. Dozens of protesters blocking the gate at the scene refuse to let the vehicles go through, as some say they feared the deliveries could in fact be weapons. Police concede and arrange for the goods to be unloaded in the open area outside of the office for protesters to watch.

Bottles of water, hampers with fruit and boxes are unloaded and delivered into the office manually by government staff, under protesters' scrutiny. Upon request by several protesters who still appear unconvinced, police open several of the boxes for them to see, showing food inside.

"What's inside this box?" a protester asks.

"Soap." a government deliveryman answers.

"What's inside that box?" another protester asks.

"Hair dryers," a policewoman replies.

"Wow! There are even soap and hair dryers! Are there condoms?" "What about sanitary towels?" Two other protesters ask.

No one replies.


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## Kolaps

来自未来 said:


> That you can ask the questions shows you are childishly simplistic.



How can a childishly simplistic, while the original question was asked by world most respected media like CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, etc. And even endorsed by the White House.

Now, please answer the question:

Why should old people make the decision?
Why not 17 years old kid?
Why?

I want to see if you can defeat and show them, how childishly simplistic they are.


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## ayachyan

Kolaps said:


> How can a childishly simplistic, while the original question was asked by world most respected media like CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, etc. And even endorsed by the White House.
> 
> Now, please answer the question:
> 
> Why should old people make the decision?
> Why not 17 years old kid?
> Why?
> 
> I want to see if you can defeat and show them, how childishly simplistic they are.


at least it is very difficult for me to trust whom is under 18 years old. they are ignorant, naive, most of all they never contribute a bit to society. after they get a job and take the necessary responsibility for this society their mind will absolutely change overoll.


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## key-CN

With similar student movement in Taiwan.Democracy makes people stupid.Like MLM.


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## Infra_Man99

nvKyleBrown said:


> I'm a moron or a parasite who wants America to decline as long as the TV says everything is OK and the US corporations and governments feed me, house me, wipe my butt, and tell me how to act and think.
> 
> All I could do is misquote others who disagree with me cuz I'm a dishonest idiot.



So why are you in the USA? Why don't you go back to Europe if you love socialism and bureaucracy so much? Is it because you doubt your ability to live in a society where you and others have freedom, but everyone must take responsibility for his actions, both good and bad?

I'm guessing you work for the excessively large government or work for a too-big-to-fail institution. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* More Americans Say Country Headed in Wrong Direction *
More Americans Say Country Headed in Wrong Direction
Monday, 30 September 2013

Last week’s poll from Bloomberg showed that 68 percent of Americans — two out of every three — say that the country is heading in the wrong direction. This is the most in two years and a substantial increase just since the first of the year. In addition, it appears that more Americans are blaming President Obama as the cause, as those holding an unfavorable view of the president now outnumber those with a favorable view for the first time since his election in 2008.

Since the first of the year, the number of Americans who think the country is headed in the right direction has fallen from 38 to 25 percent, while the number of those who think it’s headed in the wrong direction has jumped from 55 to 68 percent.

Bloomberg isn't alone. PollingReport.com published the results of more than a dozen other polls taken around the same time with similar outcomes. For instance, the CBS News/_New York Times_ Poll conducted September 19-23 showed that 66 percent think the country is headed in the wrong direction — a jump from 57 percent — while just 29 percent think it’s headed in the right direction — a decline from 38 percent — since the first of the year. Similar results showed up in the polls of NBC News/_Wall Street Journal;_ Gallup; ABC News/_Washington Post;_ and Pew Research Center. Gallup showed three out of four (75 percent) “dissatisfied with the way things are going in the United States at this time,” while just 22 percent are “satisfied.”

. . . . 

Cato uses five broad categories in its Economic Freedom of the World index, instead of Heritage’s four: the Size of Government, the Legal System and Property Rights, Sound Money, Freedom to Trade Internationally, and Regulation. The authors of the Cato study noted: 

The cornerstones of economic freedom are personal choice, voluntary exchange, freedom to compete, and security of privately-owned property…

Virtually without exception, [our] studies have found that countries with institutions and policies more consistent with economic freedom have higher investments rates, more rapid economic growth, higher income levels, and a more rapid reduction in poverty rates.

Since the year 2000, the United States has been in free fall, according to Cato:

Throughout most of the period from 1980 to 2000, the United States ranked as the world’s third-freest economy, behind Hong Kong and Singapore….

By 2005, the US ranking had slipped to 8th. The slide has continued. The United States placed 16th in 2010 and 19th in 2011.

Although the United States lost ground in all five categories, the decline in the Legal System and Property Rights was precipitous:

In 2000, the 9.23 rating of the United States was the ninth highest in the world. But by 2011, [it] had slid to 6.93, placing the United States 38th worldwide … tied with Venezuela as the largest reduction among the [185] countries rated….

The increased use of eminent domain to transfer [private] property to powerful political interests, the ramifications of the wars on terrorism and drugs, and the violation of property rights of bondholders in the auto-bailout case have all weakened the tradition of strong adherence to the rule of law in the United States….

To a large degree, the United States has experienced a significant move away from [the] rule of law and toward a highly regulated, politicized state.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Poll: Voters sour on Congress; country’s direction makes them wince*
National news from McClatchy DC News | Washington DC

WASHINGTON — Most Americans view the country moving in the wrong direction and don’t see their financial futures getting better anytime soon, attitudes likely to make it harder for Democrats to do well this fall, according to a new McClatchy-Marist poll.

Sixty-one percent see the nation on the wrong track, down from 64 percent in August but still historically high.

A big reason for the anxiety: Only 30 percent expect their personal family finances to improve in the coming year, down from 35 percent in February. Fifty-four percent see their finances staying about the same.

People want their elected officials to make things better but don’t see much progress, so they give lawmakers low marks.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Nation's issues perplex most Americans, poll finds*
Nation&apos;s issues perplex most Americans, poll finds | TribLIVE
Sunday, Sept. 28, 2014

WASHINGTON — Confused by President Obama's health care law? How about the debate over government surveillance? The way the Federal Reserve affects interest rates?

You're far from alone.

Most people in the United States say the country's issues are getting harder to fathom. 

. . . . 

Karla Lynn of Lavaca, Ark., blames politicians who she says would rather snipe at each other than explain the nation's problems in straightforward terms.

“They'll spin everything,” said Lynn, 61, a retired product developer. “You've got to wade through so much muck to try to find the truth.”

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Poll: Nearly one in four in America would favor secession*
Poll: Nearly one in four in America would favor secession - LA Times
September 19, 2014

. . . . 

According to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Friday, 23.9% of Americans polled from Aug. 23 through Sept. 16 said they strongly supported or tended to support the idea of their state breaking away from the country. About 53% of the 8,952 respondents strongly opposed or tended to oppose secession, slightly less than the percentage that kept Scotland in the United Kingdom.

. . . . 

Support for secession cuts across many lines, the poll found, but the West and Southwest, where the vision of rugged individualism still draws praise, seemed more inclined to back separation than the staid New England area. Younger and poorer folks were more likely to want to run for the exit.

Politically, conservatives and Republicans seem to like the idea of leaving more than Democrats. Among people who said they identified with the tea party, supporters of secession were actually in the majority, with 53%.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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## Infra_Man99

Desertfalcon said:


> ...and yet you suck off of America's bounty, live under America's protection, enjoy America's freedoms, and you have the_ chutzpah _to call ME a "parasite"!  Well, I don't know what you think you are trying to convince me of but those American flags under your screen name tells me everything I need to know; i.e., whiny little hypocrite not man enough to put his money where his mouth is and get out of the country he so despises. No, he will continue to live there and enjoy it's freedom and bounty and like a snivelling coward, then back-bite and trash talk about it. Buddy, you have absolutely ZERO credibility with me.



I'm guessing are a Jewish parasite living the US. 

You have *NEGATIVE* credibility with me.

You love how the Democrat Party liberals send lots of welfare to Jews and Israel, because they foolishly believe they know what's best for everyone, such as how Jews and blacks deserve more reparations than everyone and from everyone.

Of course, they still neglect Native Americans, because the Democrat Party knows the injustices against Native Americans are incredibly difficult to fix, because Jews too often worship themselves at the expense of everyone else, and blacks are too ignorant to fully understand Native American sufferings.

You love how the Republican Party Christians send lots of welfare to Jews and Israel, because their Christian religion was based on the Old Testament or Judaism's Torah. Superstitious beliefs prevent Christians from rejecting Jewish parasites.

*Poll: Jews dislike Christians, but Christians love Jews*
Poll: Americans Like Jews Most, Muslims Least | loonwatch.com

You claim you enjoy freedom and justice, but only when it benefits you. The moment freedom and justice works against you, you whine about anti-Semitism, racism, Nazism, oppression by gentiles, injustice by gentiles, terrorism by gentiles especially the Palestinians who are merely resisting Jewish invasions, etc. 

Here's an interesting story about an American Jewish parasite, Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, and his parasitic buddies who make lots and lots of money working in America's corrupt finance sector. They are currently suing the US government, because the US government gave their corporation a too big to fail bailout. 

Let me repeat that: the Jewish bloodsucker called Maurice “Hank” Greenberg and his ilk are suing the US government, because the US government protected them against bankruptcy or major downsizing, and because the US government helped them live a life of privileges and luxuries. 

Maurice “Hank” Greenberg and his ilk claimed the US government's too big to fail bailout was not good enough for them. They deserve more, more, and more. You know, a wealthy parasite needs and deserves lots of fresh blood from the oppressive gentiles. 

There's a Polish saying that a Jew will stab you in the back and scream out in agony. There are many good Jews out there, but Maurice “Hank” Greenberg is clearly a dirty Jew, and his buddies are trash. Unfortunately, the Democrat Party liberals and Republican Party Christians lack the moral backbone and intelligence to deliver justice to these parasites. This is one example out of many for why Democracy's majority of idiots is a bad idea.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*AIG Bailout by U.S. Was ‘Extortion,’ Greenberg Lawyer Says *
AIG Bailout by U.S. Was ‘Extortion,’ Greenberg Lawyer Says - Bloomberg

The U.S. extorted American International Group Inc. (AIG) shareholders when it extended a $182 billion taxpayer bailout at the height of the 2008 financial crisis, a lawyer for Maurice “Hank” Greenberg said.

. . . .

The case is Starr International Co. v. U.S., 11-cv-00779, U.S. Court of Federal Claims (Washington).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Lawmakers outraged after AIG announces potential suit against US over bailout*
Lawmakers outraged after AIG announces potential suit against US over bailout | Fox News
January 09, 2013

As American International Group Inc. weighs whether to join a lawsuit against the government that spent $182 billion to save it from collapse, U.S. lawmakers have a message for the insurance behemoth: “Don’t even think about it.”

In a letter to AIG Chairman Robert Miller, U.S. Reps. Peter Welch, D-Vt., and Michael Capuano, D-Mass., characterized the insurer as the “poster child” for Wall Street greed, fiscal mismanagement and executive bonuses.

“Now, AIG apparently seeks to become the poster company for corporate ingratitude and chutzpah,” the letter read. “Taxpayers are still furious that they rescued a company whose own conduct brought it down. Don’t rub salt in the wounds with yet another reckless decision that is on par with the reckless decision that led to the bailout in the first place.”

. . . .

If AIG decides to join the complaint, which seeks $25 billion in damages, it would pit the company against the government that rescued it in 2008 from collapsing under the weight of huge losses on mortgage-backed securities and other toxic assets.

. . . .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*AIG shareholders sue government claiming their $182 bn bailout wasn’t favorable enough*
AIG shareholders sue government claiming their $182 bn bailout wasn’t favorable enough — RT USA
September 24, 2014

Maurice Greenberg, former head of the American International Group (AIG), recruited prominent Wall Street players to contribute several million dollars to a lawsuit that alleges the US government bailout of AIG in 2008 was unfair to company shareholders. 

Greenberg, who still owns a large stake in AIG, filed the suit on behalf of his fellow shareholders. They will argue when the trial begins in Washington next week that though AIG needed the $182 billion rescue to avoid bankruptcy amid an unprecedented financial crisis, the government’s actions were unduly harsh.

. . . .

In a new chapter for so-called litigation financing - a burgeoning cause for hedge funds and specialty firms - Greenberg reportedly targeted investors that have a beef with the government. Kenneth Langone, former director of the New York Stock Exchange, and Christopher Flowers, a private equity executive, are two of the three investors. The third’s identity was not available, the Times reported.

Greenberg also pitched the idea to hedge-fund figure Steven A. Cohen and Peter G. Peterson, founder of private equity firm the Blackstone Group, the Times said.

. . . .

The lawsuit, which seeks more than $40 billion from the US government, challenges the manner in which AIG was rescued. In a unique move among other Wall Street bailouts, the government took an eventual 92 percent stake in AIG, diluting the value of the company, shareholders argue; attached a steep 14-percent interest rate on rescue funds; and allowed AIG’s trading partners to make off with billions of dollars. AIG shareholders argue that the moves violated their Fifth Amendment rights, in that their private property was taken for _“public use, without just compensation.”_

_. . . . _

Greenberg, who resigned as AIG chief in 2005 amid accounting investigations, also says the Federal Reserve lacked legal authority to take a stake in insurer.

. . . .
_"Neither the Constitution nor the Federal Reserve Act required American taxpayers to rescue AIG and cushion the fall of its shareholders, much less to do so on terms even more favorable to Starr,”_ the government said in court filings, referring to Starr International, a company owned by Greenberg that was the largest AIG investor at the time of the bailout.

. . . .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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## Desertfalcon

Oh OK, now I get it. You are just a snivelling little anti-Semitic Nazi. That explains everything but of course, your lazy hypocrisy in hating the country that you sap off of it's bounty, enjoy it's freedom, and count on real men other than yourself, to keep safe and defend for you. You are just a ungenerous brat still living in mother America's basement because you are too lazy to actually put your money where your mouth is and like most unemployed neo-Nazi thugs, you resort to cheap anti-Semitic slurs when get called on it. 


Like I said, buddy, all I need to know about you is said in those flags underneath your screen-name. Your just an intellectually lazy hypocrite, sucking off America's largess and freedom while you pretend to be a real man. Get a life.

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## Infra_Man99

bolo said:


> Just let the Americans keep doing what your posted.



I live here, so I dislike the decline in quality of life.

According to various polls, the majority of Americans believe America moving in the wrong direction. Only a minority believe America is moving the correct direction. I'm guessing the minority are people who profit a lot from America's obese government and too big to fail corporations.

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## Europa

uk-us team will continue inciting people and force you to use uniformed forces against protesters, this will go on. 
never use police-military because that is what they want to see

US Watches Hong Kong Protests, Weighs Approach

rather, use civilians to fight civilians 
bring in truck loads of people from mainland 

if they want democracy, give them
nominate victor gao, give him a nationalist party ticket to fight election
but ensure his win
use civilians from mainland to give him win
or use ballot box manipulation 

or do something else


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## Infra_Man99

Desertfalcon said:


> Oh OK, now I get it. You are just a snivelling little anti-Semitic Nazi. That explains everything but of course, your lazy hypocrisy in hating the country that you sap off of it's bounty, enjoy it's freedom, and count on real men other than yourself, to keep safe and defend for you. You are just a ungenerous brat still living in mother America's basement because you are too lazy to actually put your money where your mouth is and like most unemployed neo-Nazi thugs, you resort to cheap anti-Semitic slurs when get called on it.
> 
> Like I said, buddy, all I need to know about you is said in those flags underneath your screen-name. Your just an intellectually lazy hypocrite, sucking off America's largess and freedom while you pretend to be a real man. Get a life.



Oh I see, you are parasitic Jew. You slander and rip off gentiles while claiming to be the victim.

You boast about how you love America only when America wastes its wealth on welfare for Jewish parasites like Maurice “Hank” Greenberg. You are an ungrateful bloodsucker who thinks everyone owes you everything, because your superstitious religion and arrogant culture says so. Then you whine nonstop about anti-Semitism, racism, Nazis, terrorism, unfair gentiles, etc.

You love how America is targeted by Muslims all over the world, because America sends lots of welfare to Israel, thus, Israel commits genocide and land theft on Palestine (which is mostly Muslim). Then Israel and the Jewish diaspora insist it's anti-terrorism, humane, and God loves Jews the most.


*Israeli Politician Netanyahu said 9/11 terror attacks on America are good for Israel*
Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel Israel News | Haaretz


You troll message boards and slander people who disagree with your Jewish superstitions. Let me guess, you work for Israel's Internet propaganda team? Maybe you work for the obese US government or one of its too big to fail corporations? Those are rhetorical questions. An honest answer from a Jewish parasite is totally unexpected.

*Michael Scheuer - Israel Is Spying On The U.S., Stealing Technology & Bribing Congress. *






* I'd Dump the Israelis Tomorrow --Ex-CIA Michael Scheuer Tells Congress *

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## AgentOrange

Desertfalcon said:


> ...and yet you suck off of America's bounty, live under America's protection, enjoy America's freedoms, and you have the_ chutzpah _to call ME a "parasite"!  Well, I don't know what you think you are trying to convince me of but those American flags under your screen name tells me everything I need to know; i.e., whiny little hypocrite not man enough to put his money where his mouth is and get out of the country he so despises. No, he will continue to live there and enjoy it's freedom and bounty and like a snivelling coward, then back-bite and trash talk about it. Buddy, you have absolutely ZERO credibility with me.



I thought criticism was one of the hallmarks of free speech, so cherished by true Americans? But not to people like Desertfalcon. "You dare criticize America? That means you hate America and you should leave! Everything is fine! Lalalalala. I can't hear you! Lalalalala. Leave America!" Makes sense. 



nvKyleBrown said:


> So, why are you still in the US? Are you a criminal and thus unable to emigrate? Most Asian countries have positions for native English tutors, so there is no "i don't have a job" excuse, even if you are completely unskilled.



Why don't you actually debate his points? How can Americans change these negative trends and work towards a culture and society embodied by "The Greatest Generation"? Americans are some of the friendliest and most generous people in the world but the government has long since ceased to work for the good of the majority, instead keeping the populace sedated and distracted with irrelevant arguments over things like "legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, Obamacare, etc."

Check out this article - America is an oligarchy, not a democracy or republic, university study finds - Washington Times

Rather than attack InfraMan with the rather puerile and tired cliche of "get out if you criticize America", why aren't you more outraged over the fact that the ability of the average American to influence government decisions is practically nil? Your vote no longer means anything. You have the "freedom" to protest (until the militarized police have had enough and decide to conduct mass arrests) and bitch and moan but not the freedom to actually change anything. I'd be mad about that. But that's just me.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

Nihonjin1051 said:


> So what are the objective(s) of these people? To make Hong Kong an independent city state? We all know that is unrealistic.



HongKong is a city "*made by UK*", people here were familiar with democracy western-style, so now they are feeling uncomfortable by the hand increasingly tightening of Beijing...

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## 来自未来

Kolaps said:


> I want to see if you can defeat and show them, how childishly simplistic they are.


The answer is in history. The medias wrote it because they wanna get more readers or they wanna confuse other country's politics with the slogan of “democracy”

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## tonyget

INDIC said:


> Among Indians, the hate for the legacy of British rule runs deep, by 1947 they left nothing in India's economy irrespective how much general Brits try to whitewash it. But it quite baffling to see Honkongers admiring British rule, may be because of the huge economy Brits left for them.




Why do you think China didn't take HK and Macau by force like how India took Goa ? Because China scared of Portugal and UK ? Of course not. It was because leave HK the way it is servers China's interest best, China was isolated from the world back then, HK to China was akin to Switzerland to Germany in WWII, it was a gate necessary to access the outside world.

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## AgentOrange

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> HongKong is a city "*made by UK*", people here were familiar with democracy western-style, so now they are feeling uncomfortable by the hand increasingly tightening of Beijing...



Wrong on both counts. Hong Kong was governed by the UK who took a hands-off approach at best. HK Chinese built the city themselves from their hard work and they've also benefited from a location conducive to Asian and international finance. People in Hong Kong are not familiar with "democracy western-style" as they've never been allowed to vote for their leader in 150 years of British rule. Their leaders have always been appointed from above. 

Do you even know what's going on in Hong Kong or is their some instinctive need for Viets to butt-in to China related threads, regardless of how ignorant you guys end up appearing?

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

AgentOrange said:


> Wrong on both counts. Hong Kong was governed by the UK who took a hands-off approach at best. HK Chinese built the city themselves from their hard work and they've also benefited from a location conducive to Asian and international finance. People in Hong Kong are not familiar with "democracy western-style" as they've never been allowed to vote for their leader in 150 years of British rule. Their leaders have always been appointed from above.
> 
> Do you even know what's going on in Hong Kong or is their some instinctive need for Viets to butt-in to China related threads, regardless of how ignorant you guys end up appearing?



So tell me, what they want to?


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## MastanKhan

Nihonjin1051 said:


> So what are the objective(s) of these people? To make Hong Kong an independent city state? We all know that is unrealistic.



Hi,

To create some instability and concern for china. To keep china's attention local instead of Vietnam, phillipines, japan, Taiwan, india etc etc etc.

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## INDIC

tonyget said:


> Why do you think China didn't take HK and Macau by force like how India took Goa ? Because China scared of Portugal and UK ? Of course not. It was because leave HK the way it is servers China's interest best, China was isolated from the world back then, HK to China was akin to Switzerland to Germany in WWII, it was a gate necessary to access the outside world.



I still see Portuguese bragging about China carrying on Portuguese language for another 50 years.(since you guys dislike foreign languages). Goa was last remnant of European colonialism in India, I am glad we kicked out Portuguese to run our country in our own way instead of waiting for another 50 years for one country two systems or any other European manipulation.

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## tonyget

INDIC said:


> I still see Portuguese bragging about China carrying on Portuguese language for another 50 years.(since you guys dislike foreign languages). Goa was last remnant of European colonialism in India, I am glad we kicked out Portuguese to run our country in our own way instead of waiting for another 50 years for one country two systems or any other European manipulation.




And you guys still use English as one of your official languages even after you attained independence

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## djsjs

terranMarine said:


> mainland tourists would stay away for now, not surprised. Still in HK or left already?


I live in shenzhen


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## AgentOrange

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> So tell me, what they want to?
> 
> View attachment 109138



Nice pictures. I'd refer you to the pictures I posted in other threads of pro-Chinese people in Hong Kong and I'd also ask how your two pictures prove anything about "Western style democracy" or how Hong Kongers didn't build Hong Kong themselves but what's the point?

You obviously don't understand what's going on in Hong Kong and it's a waste of my time to try to argue with you seriously when deluded Viets like you think trolling threads about China is some noble act of anti-China defiance.

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## Desertfalcon

AgentOrange said:


> I thought criticism was one of the hallmarks of free speech, so cherished by true Americans? But not to people like Desertfalcon. "You dare criticize America? That means you hate America and you should leave! Everything is fine! Lalalalala. I can't hear you! Lalalalala. Leave America!" Makes sense.


Yes, I believe that anti-Semitic little Nazis like InfraMan who leach off of America's bounty and freedom while insulting her, ought to put his money where his mouth is...and leave. Perhaps Canada would be a good choice. Anti-Americanism, born of a severe inferiority complex, ranks right after hockey as Canada's national sport. You can have him.





AgentOrange said:


> Why don't you actually debate his points?



For the same reason why I don't waste much time on trying to debate racists. It does no good. He has every right in America, to be the snivelling little neo-Nazi, Jew hating leech that he is. I have every right to voice my opinion about it and choose to move on.


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## INDIC

tonyget said:


> And you guys still use English as one of your official languages even after you attained independence



We kept English based on our own need and even making money out of English proficiency, it was not dictated by British. It is quite open that Chinese don't like any European language but Portuguese dictated their term while leaving Macau and you have to carry it for another 50 years. Moreover, even if Indian learn English and Chinese don't our culture still have least westernization compared to Chinese culture. I have talked to some Portuguese, many of them keep no regard for oriental cultures of Asia and think everyone of us in Asia should concede the greatness of Portuguese language and Portuguese culture.


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## AgentOrange

INDIC said:


> We kept English based on our own need and even making money out of English proficiency, it was not dictated by British. It is quite open that Chinese don't like any European language but Portuguese dictated their term while leaving Macau and you have to carry it for another 50 years. Moreover, even if Indian learn English and Chinese don't our culture still have least westernization compared to Chinese culture. I have talked to some Portuguese, many of them keep no regard for oriental cultures of Asia and think everyone of us in Asia should concede the greatness of Portuguese language and Portuguese culture.



That's completely false. Portugal didn't dictate anything when returning Macau. In fact, Portugal wanted to return Macau in the '70s but Zhou Enlai urged them to wait because China was such a mess at the time.

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## AgentOrange

Desertfalcon said:


> Yes, I believe that anti-Semitic little Nazis like InfraMan who leach off of America's bounty and freedom while insulting her, ought to put his money where his mouth is...and leave. Perhaps Canada would be a good choice. Anti-Americanism, born of a severe inferiority complex, ranks right after hockey as Canada's national sport. You can have him.
> .



LMAO, Canada has an inferiority complex vis a vis America? Is that why Americans traveling abroad deck themselves out in Canadian flags so they don't get spat on?

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## INDIC

AgentOrange said:


> That's completely false. Portugal didn't dictate anything when returning Macau. In fact, Portugal wanted to return Macau in the '70s but Zhou Enlai urged them to wait because China was such a mess at the time.



Yes, after Carnation revolution Portugal wanted to get rid of all colonies because the colonial war in Angola and Mozambique screwed the Portuguese economy badly. But why was Portuguese language kept for 50 years, I don't understand this.

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## AgentOrange

JayMandan said:


> Got to respect those protesters' guts knowing China will do anything to stop them but still trying to hold their ground. I wonder how long they will last.



So far China hasn't needed to do anything. Loyal Hong Kongers outnumber the protesters and are doing quite well in putting them in their place. Also, the Hong Kong policed department has handled everything professionally and without excessive violence.



terranMarine said:


> In the mean time life continues for Mainland enjoying their holiday. Economy still going strong, only citizens in HK are affected by these clueless coolies. Being used by White people to promote their hidden agenda
> But i have 100% faith it will be cracked down by law enforcers and the majority of the HK citizens who are fervently against these trouble seekers.



That's exactly what's happening my friend. Hong Kongers are as Chinese as any mainland Chinese. And the silent majority who don't support these sellout traitors are becoming less and less silent, as those whiney little bitches are finding out to their discomfiture.



Kolaps said:


> Why should old people make the decision?
> Why not 17 years old kid?
> Why?
> 
> I want to see if you can defeat and show them, how childishly simplistic they are.



Why not 7 years old kid become president of Taiwan? Why not 7 years old dog? 7 years old dog is 49 years old man? Why racist against 7 year old dog president of Taiwan? Why? Why no kibble for every bowl, a bone for every doghouse? Why not 3 year old dog make decision? 3 year old dog equal to 30 year old fish divided by 24 year old monkey, carry the two. Banana. Why?

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## IsaacNewton

Well, Japan is usually pretty soft on China for human rights or lack of democracy. 

Japan was the first major country to reestablish ties with China after 1989 Tiananmen Square protest.

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## Infra_Man99

Desertfalcon said:


> Yes, I believe that anti-Semitic little Nazis like InfraMan who leach off of America's bounty and freedom while insulting her, ought to put his money where his mouth is...and leave. Perhaps Canada would be a good choice. Anti-Americanism, born of a severe inferiority complex, ranks right after hockey as Canada's national sport. You can have him.
> 
> For the same reason why I don't waste much time on trying to debate racists. It does no good. He has every right in America, to be the snivelling little neo-Nazi, Jew hating leech that he is. I have every right to voice my opinion about it and choose to move on.



I know you're type. You're a hypocrite, a slanderer, and a con-artist.

When American socialism benefits you, you proclaim your love for America. When American socialism does not benefit you, then you whine loudly that America is oppressive, anti-Semitic, a Nazi state, a terrorist, racist, and other slanders.

When gentiles want socialism, you accuse them of being lazy and worthless. When Jews and Israel benefit a lot from American socialism, then you declare the superiority of Jews and how amazing American freedom and justice is.

When Latin America's socialism, China's socialism, Russia's socialism, or Eastern Europe's socialism does not benefit you, then you want American socialism to bomb these oppressive nations, sabotage these unjust nations, cheat these anti-freedom nations, regime change these bigoted nations, support useful idiot rebels in these racist nations, etc.

You think freedom of speech is only for you, but not for others. If others enjoy freedom of speech, then they are traitors and anti-American. According to your Jewish delusions, freedom of speech means only saying things you approve of.

You think the Jewish holocaust is an important historical event, but you care very little about the Native American holocaust, the Palestinian holocaust, the Chinese holocaust, etc.

Your superstitious Jewish religion tells you about evil ancient Egyptians and evil ancient Romans who oppressed Jews, but historical evidence proves you wrong. Historical facts show that ancient Egypt and ancient Rome conquered lots of people, not just Jews. However, Jews whine the loudest for the longest. Germans were oppressed by ancient Rome, but Germans fought well and worked their way to the top.

If it wasn't for Christian gentiles, then Jews would be stuck in the Middle East and in easily kicked around. Christian gentiles saved and spoiled the Jews, yet, polls show how American Jews favor atheists over Christians, because Jews dislike Christians. Of course, Jews greatly exaggerate the imperfections of Christians and downplay the benefits from Christians.

According to some historical records, Jews were greatly involved with the black African slave trade, but, of course, Jews prefer blaming white gentiles for this. Jews also supported the genocide against Native Americans, but, of course, this doesn't matter. America and Israel are mostly for Jews. Screw the natives. If someone disagrees with you, then you whine about racism, anti-Semitism, Nazism, bigotry, etc.

Go back to Israel. Quit bloodsucking on American socialism.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

On a cold day I could probably snap that kid in half over my knees.

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## Desertfalcon

...says the ignorant *** to an American Catholic who is a conservative Republican, but why should I think you know anything more about me than anything else you have been spouting on about? Spout on American neo-Nazi leech!

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## beijingwalker

*Hong Kong merchants losing patience with protesters*

If commerce is the lifeblood of this fast-dealing metropolis, Ben Pui was having little of it Saturday idling behind his glass shop counter filled with exotic medicinal herbs.

“Business is down 90%,” said Pui, whose pharmacy is directly across from one of the most heated protest sites, a densely packed neighborhood known as Mong Kok. “It’s just crazy. A lot of stores could close. The protesters aren’t being rational. They should go stay at the government offices.”

Hong Kong merchants losing patience with protesters - LA Times

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## Jane Cheng

mike2000 said:


> lool what do you want Japan to say/do? It has little or no influence in Hong Kong(don't forget they are also anti Japanese and have a hatred of Japans war crimes in Hong kong when Japan took them from us during world war II) unlike Taiwan who is pro Japan. So the main player in this is my country who colonised Hong kong for a hundred years and the U.S. We will keep the pressure/support to our pro democracy camp.
> Japan can offer verbal support though, it will be helpful in keeping the Chinese in check. Though they could also retaliate in Okinawa. But that's another topic.


Shame on you.
Yes, the UK has been colonized Hongkong for almost 100 years. and your country has insulted China for almost 100 years. It is a fact. But i can not believe it that you are proud that you have colonize the other countries. 
we chinese know who is behine the HongKong clown. The UK. 
We suggest you stop interfere the affairs of Hongkong and secede China . Or we will choose support the separarists in UK.


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## FNFAL

Salute to the people of HK.


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## Desertfalcon

AgentOrange said:


> LMAO, Canada has an inferiority complex vis a vis America?


You are Canadian and this is news to you?  You must be a recent immigrant...
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/23/is-canada-more-than-not-america
Is Canada more than not America? | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun

National inferiority complex makes me feel small | The London Free Press

Our inferiority complex on display | Toronto Star


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## itaskol

idiot kid


----------



## Fukuoka

*Sept. 28: The Police Respond With Tear Gas*

 
The police used tear gas against protesters after tens of thousands of people blocked a main road to Central, the main financial district, outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong on Sunday.
*




*
The escalation of police action, including the city’s first use of tear gas in years and the presence of officers with long-barreled guns, appeared to galvanize the public, drawing more people onto the streets.




The protests started after a weeklong boycott of classes by university students to protest China’s election plan.





Crowds had besieged the city government for three days.




Streets of a city known as a safe enclave for commerce became a battleground between helmeted police and umbrella-holding protesters.




A pro-democracy demonstrator was overcome after police used pepper spray.




The escalation of the protests, and the unusually strong response by the police, pointed to the possibility of a long confrontation between a city government pressured by the Chinese Communist Party’s demands for top-down control and residents’ demands for a city leadership chosen by democratic means.




Thousands of residents with umbrellas and face masks defied police orders to clear the area.




http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/01/world/asia/hong-kong-protest-photos.html


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## AgentOrange

Desertfalcon said:


> You are Canadian and this is news to you?  You must be a recent immigrant...
> Is Canada more than not America? | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun
> 
> National inferiority complex makes me feel small | The London Free Press
> 
> Our inferiority complex on display | Toronto Star



Hmm, they must speak for all Canadians. I must not have gotten the memo at the "Canada National Inferiority Meeting." I was probably at the "So glad we're not out killing hundreds of thousands of people and creating a never ending stream of enemies that hate us and want us dead so that we'll never be at rest" meeting instead.

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## IsaacNewton

Jane Cheng said:


> Shame on you.
> Yes, the UK has been colonized Hongkong for almost 100 years. and your country has insulted China for almost 100 years. It is a fact. But i can not believe it that you are proud that you have colonize the other countries.
> we chinese know who is behine the HongKong clown. The UK.
> We suggest you stop interfere the affairs of Hongkong and secede China . Or we will choose support the separarists in UK.


When UK took over HK, it was a fishing village with 3000 residents. When UK left HK, it was arguably the most advanced city in all of Asia with 7 million residents.

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## Huaren

IsaacNewton said:


> When UK took over HK, it was a fishing village with 3000 residents. When UK left HK, it was arguably the most advanced city in all of Asia with 7 million residents.



Because the once fishing village sucked all the people and ressource from chinese region around, granted china was living hell back then no less also thanks to the britains, hong kong was made into a colony port where all the blood and ressources from around transferred to europe, part of the ressources and some refugees inevitably made contribution to hong kong itself. 

And by the way its smart move of japan for not getting involved, if they give out official support for the demonstration it would more likely make those protestors look like national traitors, if japan want to support some group in china they do it best by keep mouth shut and give silent support in secret.

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## Aepsilons

Huaren said:


> And by the way its smart move of japan for not getting involved, if they give out official support for the demonstration it would more likely make those protestors look like national traitors, if japan want to support some group in china they do it best by keep mouth shut and give silent support in secret.



We adhere to a strict non-interference policy. Actually both China and Japan adhere to this as specified in the 1978 TOPF.


----------



## Zabaniyah

AgentOrange said:


> Hong Kong's usefulness as a financial hub is being eclipsed by mainland Chinese cities, most notably Shanghai. Add to that the fact that most Hong Kongers don't speak mandarin, have a hard time competing, and suddenly see their "poor brothers" on the Mainland getting richer and you end up with a lot of frustration.



That explains a lot.


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## Desertfalcon

AgentOrange said:


> Hmm, they must speak for all Canadians. I must not have gotten the memo at the "Canada National Inferiority Meeting." I was probably at the "So glad we're not out killing hundreds of thousands of people and creating a never ending stream of enemies that hate us and want us dead so that we'll never be at rest" meeting instead.


...and then you came here to join the, _"I am a stalwart supporter of Jew hating, neo-Nazi bigots"_ meeting that Infra_Man was hosting so I will just chock it up to you being a very, very, different person than the average Canadian indeed, and leave it at that. 

Canada Joins Battle Against ISIS - NBC News


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## Aepsilons

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> To create some instability and concern for china. To keep china's attention local instead of Vietnam, phillipines, japan, Taiwan, india etc etc etc.



That sounds like a very genuine hypothesis, Sir.


----------



## AgentOrange

Desertfalcon said:


> ...and then you came here to join the, _"I am a stalwart supporter of Jew hating, neo-Nazi bigots"_ meeting that Infra_Man was hosting so I will just chock it up to you being a very, very, different person than the average Canadian indeed, and leave it at that.
> 
> Canada Joins Battle Against ISIS - NBC News



Typical American rightwing nutjob - lie and dissemble when you're losing an argument. Have you any proof that I'm anti-semitic? Any at all? Just because I support some of what he says, doesn't mean I agree with everything he says. At the same time, I'm not about to tell him to leave his home because I don't like what he's saying as you like to do. How very authoritarian of you.

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## mike2000

Jane Cheng said:


> Shame on you.
> Yes, the UK has been colonized Hongkong for almost 100 years. and your country has insulted China for almost 100 years. It is a fact. But i can not believe it that you are proud that you have colonize the other countries.
> we chinese know who is behine the HongKong clown. The UK.
> We suggest you stop interfere the affairs of Hongkong and secede China . Or we will choose support the separarists in UK.



lool which seperatists will you support in U.K bro?. China has little or no influence over the U.K .lol In fact your prime minister when he last visited the U.K over a week ago just before the Scottish referendum, stressed that he's in favor of the U.K remaining united. He said this not because he likes us per say, but because he knows they have no influence in changing anything, moreover China is wary of any sort of referendum for independence due to their wariness of their restive regions(Uygur). so they don't want anything to do with independence/separtism even if it concerns their rival countries like U.S,Japan or U.K. so there you go for your government supporting seperatism in U.K. lool 

Anyway, i wasn't implying im proud we colonised other countries bro. I was just making a point, about the current/past geo political realities going on in asia and the world. All what i said were mere facts(though they sometimes hurt, yes truth hurts i know). So its nothing personal bro. Just politics, as you know its never a clean game, and never will be, you just have to learn to play the game, like the Russian bear



IsaacNewton said:


> When UK took over HK, it was a fishing village with 3000 residents. When UK left HK, it was arguably the most advanced city in all of Asia with 7 million residents.


Exactly bro, we might have commited lots of bad things as a colonial power, but we also helped developed many regions/countries we controlled/ruled. Everything wasn't always as bad as others try to portray it. Im not condoning colonialism, but im just saying we shouldn't always focus on the bad things we did, but also stressed the good ones as well. 
In fact compared to all others European colonial powers, British colonies are still the most prosperous/advanced even today, compared it to Portuguese or even more so French colonies and see for yourself.

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## AgentOrange

IsaacNewton said:


> When UK took over HK, it was a fishing village with 3000 residents. When UK left HK, it was arguably the most advanced city in all of Asia with 7 million residents.



And all credit goes to the hardworking Chinese residents there and a favorable geographic location.

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## mike2000

Kolaps said:


> I tell you the reason.
> 
> Just look at HK Silent Majority, that is why!
> 
> British know, that is why they never give it.




well we never gave it because Hong kong people weren't really adamant about it back then, moreoever they were content with the little freedom, and prosperity we provided them compared to their mainland neighour. Also they regard us more in high esteem compared to their mainland 'brothers' and even less so other Asian emmigrants like Vietnamese, filipinos, Indonesians etc. I dont want to sound like a white supremacists, but i will say they seem to be ok being ruled by us(regardless of if we granted them more freedom to choose their leaders/democracy or not) than their giant 'brother' in the mainland or whatever.


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## nvKyleBrown

AgentOrange said:


> long quote, read above



I don't see voting as pointless at all. I understand there are other people out there with differing opinions, and I will not always get my way. That's why we vote. I don't agree with the oligopoly opinion at all either. University professors are always feeling hurt that people don't just do what they say - and to them that means the country is not a democracy. If it were a democracy, we'd do what they say, so, well, if we disagree with them we're fascists, or the people voted into office are oligarchs, or some other name calling. Recognize sour grapes when you see it.

As far as the "inconsequential" arguments, it is up to people to decide for themselves what they think is important and what they want to fight/vote/protest over. That IS democracy - the people decide what the issues are, as well as voting on them.

My main reason for visiting this site is to gain insight into cultural thinking. So, I am always curious when someone declares how bad country X is, how much better Y is, why they would continue to live in X rather than move to Y. Honestly, I have doubts that X is really so bad in the writer's eyes. The fact that he still lives there says something - that he is being a bit hypocritical about how terrible it is. I am less "love it or leave it" and more "why do you chose to live in an inferior area, by your own measure?" I don't live in the same state where I was born. I could probably move back if I wanted to, but I do not want to. I'm curious about people who decide to live somewhere they don't like, that is alien thinking to me. I have to believe that most of the people on this board that are over 18 can chose where to live (to some degee at least). Particularly if you are a non-American in the US, you have the option to go back to your home country. If you're Pakistani in Pakistan (or American living in America), you may have no option, but if your living outside your home country, it would be rare to be so limited.


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## AgentOrange

Jane Cheng said:


> Shame on you.
> Yes, the UK has been colonized Hongkong for almost 100 years. and your country has insulted China for almost 100 years. It is a fact. But i can not believe it that you are proud that you have colonize the other countries.
> we chinese know who is behine the HongKong clown. The UK.
> We suggest you stop interfere the affairs of Hongkong and secede China . Or we will choose support the separarists in UK.



LMAO. The US is behind the protests but the UK? The UK has no influence anywhere and they barely held onto Scotland (probably through vote rigging). Educate yourself please. Right now you sound rather pathetic and ignorant.



mike2000 said:


> well we never gave it because Hong kong people weren't really adamant about it back then, moreoever they were content with the little freedom, and prosperity we provided them compared to their mainland neighour. Also they regard us more in high esteem compared to their mainland 'brothers' and even less so other Asian emmigrants like Vietnamese, filipinos, Indonesians etc. I dont want to sound like a white supremacists, but i will say they seem to be ok being ruled by us(regardless of if we granted them more freedom to choose their leaders/democracy or not) than their giant 'brother' in the mainland or whatever.



You do sound like a white supremacist. Good to know.

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## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> And all credit goes to the hardworking Chinese residents there and a favorable geographic location.



And British networking to all corners of their Empire... 



mike2000 said:


> well we never gave it because Hong kong people weren't really adamant about it back then, moreoever they were content with the little freedom, and prosperity we provided them compared to their mainland neighour. Also they regard us more in high esteem compared to their mainland 'brothers' and even less so other Asian emmigrants like Vietnamese, filipinos, Indonesians etc. I dont want to sound like a white supremacists, but i will say they seem to be ok being ruled by us(regardless of if we granted them more freedom to choose their leaders/democracy or not) than their giant 'brother' in the mainland or whatever.



It's a shame you didn't grant them independence or made them into dominion as you did to Canada.


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## AgentOrange

Nihonjin1051 said:


> And British networking to all corners of their Empire...



And if that were the case, then all corners of the British Empire would be as prosperous as Hong Kong. And they are! Oh wait....nope.

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## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> And if that were the case, then all corners of the British Empire would be as prosperous as Hong Kong. And they are! Oh wait....nope.



Most of their core colonies are. In fact, it's biggest "baby" is the world's sole Hyper Power--- the United States of America.

Her other major possessions are now economic and military powers in their own right such as Canada, South Africa, Australia-NZ, Singapore, Malaysia.

One could also include India and Pakistan.

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## AgentOrange

nvKyleBrown said:


> I don't see voting as pointless at all. I understand there are other people out there with differing opinions, and I will not always get my way. That's why we vote. I don't agree with the oligopoly opinion at all either. University professors are always feeling hurt that people don't just do what they say - and to them that means the country is not a democracy. If it were a democracy, we'd do what they say, so, well, if we disagree with them we're fascists, or the people voted into office are oligarchs, or some other name calling. Recognize sour grapes when you see it.
> 
> As far as the "inconsequential" arguments, it is up to people to decide for themselves what they think is important and what they want to fight/vote/protest over. That IS democracy - the people decide what the issues are, as well as voting on them.
> 
> My main reason for visiting this site is to gain insight into cultural thinking. So, I am always curious when someone declares how bad country X is, how much better Y is, why they would continue to live in X rather than move to Y. Honestly, I have doubts that X is really so bad in the writer's eyes. The fact that he still lives there says something - that he is being a bit hypocritical about how terrible it is. I am less "love it or leave it" and more "why do you chose to live in an inferior area, by your own measure?" I don't live in the same state where I was born. I could probably move back if I wanted to, but I do not want to. I'm curious about people who decide to live somewhere they don't like, that is alien thinking to me. I have to believe that most of the people on this board that are over 18 can chose where to live (to some degee at least). Particularly if you are a non-American in the US, you have the option to go back to your home country. If you're Pakistani in Pakistan (or American living in America), you may have no option, but if your living outside your home country, it would be rare to be so limited.



That's not my take on what he wrote at all. In fact, inframan sounded more frustrated with America's relative decline than anything else. Frustration shows that he cares enough about the issue to get emotional about it. If he didn't care about America's wellbeing, he'd probably ignore 

Democracy is about actually being able to influence the government in a meaningful way. We all know that's not really the case here because what began as a noble idea has long since been co-opted by corporate interests and a very small political and economic elite. They still maintain the pretense of mass political participation and involvement but it's just that - a pantomime. Just deciding and voting for either side of the same coin but not being able to change anything is meaningless, IMO. It's nice that you still believe but I don't. We'll have to agree to disagree.

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## mike2000

Nihonjin1051 said:


> And British networking to all corners of their Empire...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame you didn't grant them independence or made them into dominion as you did to Canada.



lool Its because we had leased Hong Kong for 100 years from the Chinese after we defeated them during the opium war. So we had to ceed it to them back after the leased expired. Else it will have been illegal or even lead to a senseless conflict, which no side will have benefited from it.


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## AgentOrange

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Most of their core colonies are. In fact, it's biggest "baby" is the world's sole Hyper Power--- the United States of America.
> 
> Her other major possessions are now economic and military powers in their own right such as Canada, South Africa, Australia-NZ, Singapore, Malaysia.
> 
> One could also include India and Pakistan.



I definitely wouldn't include India and Pakistan as neither are remotely close to first world standards. But don't take my word for it. Ask our Indian and Pakistani PDF friends if they are thankful for the British raping their lands. Go ahead.

I wouldn't include the parts of Africa they conquered either. And the US did well after it bloodied the British and sent them scurrying. Kind of the whole point of their revolution - because the Americans weren't prospering under the British yoke in the way they thought they should. And don't use the phrase "core" colonies. That's weasel wording (purposefully vague with a definition that can be broadly interpreted to help your argument) and you, as an intellectual, are better than that.

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## mike2000

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Most of their core colonies are. In fact, it's biggest "baby" is the world's sole Hyper Power--- the United States of America.
> 
> Her other major possessions are now economic and military powers in their own right such as Canada, South Africa, Australia-NZ, Singapore, Malaysia.
> 
> One could also include India and Pakistan.



Exactly bro, he fails to understand that.
Now compare it with French colonies.



AgentOrange said:


> LMAO. The US is behind the protests but the UK? The UK has no influence anywhere and they barely held onto Scotland (probably through vote rigging). Educate yourself please. Right now you sound rather pathetic and ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> You do sound like a white supremacist. Good to know.



lool seems you don't even know your own 'city' well. As i said before, when it comes to Hong Kong, we still have more influence there even more than our former 'colonial baby' the U.S. Ask your Chinese brothers on here like Jane Cheng or better still Chinese Dragon who is from hong Kong. He will explain to you better bro..

As for your last point, im not a white supremacists/racists or whatever you wanna call me. In fact my wife is black(mixed race in fact, so half black), so i have nothing against other race. I was just making a point/stating some facts, If not why do you think the people of Hong Kong never/hardly ever protested/caused trouble for 'freedom/democracy' when we ruled them even though they had even less freedom to choose their leaders under our rule than they do now?. So you might not agree with me, but that doesnt make me a white supremacist or whatever you wanna call it.

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## terranMarine

djsjs said:


> I live in shenzhen


nice  , Shenzhen today looks awesome


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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> Exactly bro, he fails to understand that.
> Now compare it with French colonies.
> 
> 
> 
> lool seems you don't even know your own 'city' well. As i said before, when it comes to Hong Kong, we still have more influence there even more than our former 'colonial baby' the U.S. Ask your Chinese brothers on here like Jane Cheng or better still Chinese Dragon who is from hong Kong. He will explain to you better bro..
> 
> As for your last point, im not a white supremacists/racists or whatever you wanna call me. In fact my wife is black(mixed race in fact, so half black), so i have nothing against other race. I was just making a point/stating some facts, If not why do you think the people of Hong Kong never/hardly ever protested/caused trouble for 'freedom/democracy' when we ruled them even though they had even less freedom to choose their leaders under our rule than they do now?. So you might not agree with me, but that doesnt make me a white supremacist or whatever you wanna call it.



Ask Jane Cheng? Jane Cheng has no idea what she's talking about as you yourself pointed out when she idiotically suggested that there were UK separatists that China could support. But when she falsely/incorrectly attributes power and influence to a feckless and dying modern day UK, now she's a knowledgeable PDF contributor who's previously asinine opinions can be disregarded because, like an emotionally needy child, you got an ego boost?

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## mike2000

AgentOrange said:


> Ask Jane Cheng? Jane Cheng has no idea what she's talking about as you yourself pointed out when she idiotically suggested that there were UK separatists that China could support. But when she falsely/incorrectly attributes power and influence to a feckless and dying modern day UK, now she's a knowledgeable PDF contributor who's previously asinine opinions can be disregarded because, like an emotionally needy child, you got an ego boost?



Which ego boost are you talking about bro? As i said before, we still have alot of influence in Hong Kong, afterall, its normal since we ruled them for over a 100 years and just ceeded them back to chinese rule just less than 2 decades ago(about 18years ago). So obviously we will still have influence there, since Hong Kong still follwos the laws we implemented there, and its a world financial hub, something we are world leaders in as well, so obviously we will have much more influence there than any other Foreign power(including the U.S). So this is not about ego boosting, its just stating facts to be hoenst.
Anyway guess we should just leave this topic aside and focus about the topic at hand which is about Japan's silence over the protests in Hong Kong.

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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> Which ego boost are you talking about bro? As i said before, we still have alot of influence in Hong Kong, afterall, its normal since we ruled them for over a 100 years and just ceeded them back to chinese rule just less than 2 decades ago(about 18years ago). So obviously we will still have influence there, since Hong Kong still follwos the laws we implemented there, and its a world financial hub, something we are world leaders in as well, so obviously we will have much more influence there than any other Foreign power(including the U.S). So this is not about ego boosting, its just stating facts to be hoenst.
> Anyway guess we should just leave this topic aside and focus about the topic at hand which is about Japan's silence over the protests in Hong Kong.



The ego boost from someone else actually thinking the UK is relevant and subsequent pride at being a UK citizen. At any rate, I don't equate influence with legacy. British legacy institutions are in place but that's not the same thing as being able to influence political outcomes, for instance. Similarly, Japan still uses Chinese characters in their writing - a legacy from an intertwined history, but I wouldn't say that China has that much influence over Japan. Anyways, back to the topic, as you say.

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## Trawllu

smar tguys the japs 

why should they take teh UDTA TEER backsides on this one


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## mike2000

AgentOrange said:


> The ego boost from someone else actually thinking the UK is relevant and subsequent pride at being a UK citizen. At any rate, I don't equate influence with legacy. British legacy institutions are in place but that's not the same thing as being able to influence political outcomes, for instance. Similarly, Japan still uses Chinese characters in their writing - a legacy from an intertwined history, but I wouldn't say that China has that much influence over Japan. Anyways, back to the topic, as you say.



Good to know we can have a conversation even though we might disagree with each other without namecalling/personal attacks. I appreciate that.
By the way, where is Chinese Dragon? He is nowhere to be found in thsi thread, and similar others, since he's from Hong Kong, thought he might help us expantiate more on some points on here.

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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> Good to know we can have a conversation even though we might disagree with each other without namecalling/personal attacks. I appreciate that.
> By the way, where is Chinese Dragon? He is nowhere to be found in thsi thread, and similar others, since he's from Hong Kong, thought he might help us expantiate more on some points on here.



Agreed. No learning can occur if we're talking at each other rather than to each other. <===tired cliche but true. Cheers.

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## nvKyleBrown

@Infra_Man99 I'm sorry, your response made no sense to me. I'm not from Europe. I'm happy where I am, as I've said before. I am not where I started out, I have moved a number of times to get to where I am, and I'm not likely to move again soon. Maybe when I'm older/retiring, to be closer to family. I work for a medium-sized technical/industrial company that was bought up by a very large company (hereafter VLC) over a decade ago. After fiddling with us for a bit, they have decided to let us do our own thing again (they were starting to threaten our long term viability). We are, and have been for many years, the industry leader (internationally) at what we do. We have been profitable for decades (thus VLC's purchase from our original owner, who has since died). About 70% of our business is international - we have an international technical team that I work with on a regular basis, as well as international commercial teams. VLC may have different numbers, I'm not sure, don't really care. More specific I will not get, as my employer does not want to be linked to what employees are doing online, which seems very fair to me.

From what I see, most other countries are more of a mess, sometimes a lot more. Given that there is a huge division in the US about which way the country SHOULD be going, it is not surprising that about half the population thinks things are going the wrong way. If we switched directions, we'd still have half the population thinking things were misguided. We have about 30-40% who want small government/low taxes. We have about 30-40% who want big government/high taxes. The folks in the middle are idiots who want low taxes and big government, which can't work. They vote half the time for one side and half for the other, which accounts for a lot of the craziness.

I disagree with your pessimistic assessment. I think the future is fundamentally positive. I hope you can live with the fact that not everyone agrees with you. I would still like to know why you don't move to another location if you think that location would be better. Are you tied down by family?


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## Infra_Man99

nvKyleBrown said:


> @Infra_Man99 I'm sorry, your response made no sense to me. I'm not from Europe. I'm happy where I am, as I've said before. I am not where I started out, I have moved a number of times to get to where I am, and I'm not likely to move again soon. Maybe when I'm older/retiring, to be closer to family. I work for a medium-sized technical/industrial company that was bought up by a very large company (hereafter VLC) over a decade ago. After fiddling with us for a bit, they have decided to let us do our own thing again (they were starting to threaten our long term viability). We are, and have been for many years, the industry leader (internationally) at what we do. We have been profitable for decades (thus VLC's purchase from our original owner, who has since died). About 70% of our business is international - we have an international technical team that I work with on a regular basis, as well as international commercial teams. VLC may have different numbers, I'm not sure, don't really care. More specific I will not get, as my employer does not want to be linked to what employees are doing online, which seems very fair to me.
> 
> From what I see, most other countries are more of a mess, sometimes a lot more. Given that there is a huge division in the US about which way the country SHOULD be going, it is not surprising that about half the population thinks things are going the wrong way. If we switched directions, we'd still have half the population thinking things were misguided. We have about 30-40% who want small government/low taxes. We have about 30-40% who want big government/high taxes. The folks in the middle are idiots who want low taxes and big government, which can't work. They vote half the time for one side and half for the other, which accounts for a lot of the craziness.
> 
> I disagree with your pessimistic assessment. I think the future is fundamentally positive. I hope you can live with the fact that not everyone agrees with you. I would still like to know why you don't move to another location if you think that location would be better. Are you tied down by family?



Is your company related to overweight domestic security, the obese military, any wasteful government agencies, or too big to fail corporations?

George Bush said something about don't cut and run. Bush was and is an idiot, but, like a broken clock, sometimes he gets things right.

I don't believe in running away from all of my problems. Some things are worth ignoring or avoiding, but, many times, I believe in fixing the problem. Majority of Americans (~2/3rds) agree with me that the system is going in the wrong direction. I previously provided proof of this.

Previously, you misinterpreted what I wrote. Now you claimed about 1/2 of Americans agree with me. I'm starting to think you lack reading comprehension.


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## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> I definitely wouldn't include India and Pakistan as neither are remotely close to first world standards. But don't take my word for it. Ask our Indian and Pakistani PDF friends if they are thankful for the British raping their lands. Go ahead.
> 
> I wouldn't include the parts of Africa they conquered either. And the US did well after it bloodied the British and sent them scurrying. Kind of the whole point of their revolution - because the Americans weren't prospering under the British yoke in the way they thought they should. And don't use the phrase "core" colonies. That's weasel wording (purposefully vague with a definition that can be broadly interpreted to help your argument) and you, as an intellectual, are better than that.



Thank you for your correction , I apologize for using the word "core colonies". I hope I didn't offend anyone.



mike2000 said:


> lool Its because we had leased Hong Kong for 100 years from the Chinese after we defeated them during the opium war. So we had to ceed it to them back after the leased expired. Else it will have been illegal or even lead to a senseless conflict, which no side will have benefited from it.



Yes, yes you did. That's what I find very interesting about the British , despite the Imperialist system, the fact that your side considered a lease of Hong Kong. When , during such times, it was the rule of the day to seize territory through one's shear firepower.

Your side waged that brutal war against the Qing Dynasty unethically, tho, I must say. The Opium addiction devastated China, not to mention the loss of silver as a result of that so called drug trade.



mike2000 said:


> Exactly bro, he fails to understand that.
> Now compare it with French colonies.



Two empires, French Empire and Spanish Empire. I think there is a culture of corruption, colonial mentality amongst former French and Spanish possessions. From Latin America, to parts of Asia, and Africa.

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## Aepsilons

@mike2000 and @AgentOrange --- Wow, what a very interesting, didactic exchange you two had. I enjoyed reading your discourse. I learned a lot, too.


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## Nan Yang

Confrontation between residents and occupiers.

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## Infra_Man99

Desertfalcon said:


> ...says the ignorant *** to an American Catholic who is a conservative Republican, but why should I think you know anything more about me than anything else you have been spouting on about? Spout on American neo-Nazi leech!



First you called me a coward, and now you are afraid to directly reply to me. First you insult me, then I defend myself, and then you hypocritically slander me with accusations of racism, anti-Semitism, Nazism, and other hypocritical slanders.

I doubt you are a real Catholic. I bet you are a closet Jew. Lots of Jews adopt gentile names to swindle gentiles.

You are not a conservative Republican. You are a GOP neo-con fraud, a hypocrite, and a liar. A real conservative does not advocate sending nonstop welfare to Jewish parasites in America and Israel.


Larry Klayman is a the former Justice Department lawyer and founder of Judicial Watch and Freedom Watch websites. Larry Klayman was born a Jew, but "converted" to Christianity and is now a "Messianic Jew" and is a Republican Party extremist. Larry Klayman is using a incredibly stupid lawsuit to deport President Obama back to Africa.

I dislike Obama, but even I'm not this hatefully stupid and self-righteous. I recall that you wanted to deport me from America, because I disagreed with you. I'm guessing Larry Klayman and you are both Jewish pieces of shits. You arrogantly think America is primarily for Jews. Screw Native Americans and other gentiles. Jews come first everywhere.

Of course, if a real gentile uses lawsuits to deport this Republican Jew back to Israel or Europe, then he would whine about racism, anti-Semitism, Nazism, etc. Larry Klayman is a hypocrite parasite on the system. His entire career is about frivolous lawsuits.

Of course, Larry Klayman has no problem with the many American Jews who also have dual citizenship with Israel. Of course, Larry Klayman didn't try to deport President Bush when Bush's approval ratings dropped to around 25%.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Klayman Files for Deportation of Barack Obama*
Klayman files for deportation of Barack Obama

. . . .

Now Larry Klayman, the former Justice Department lawyer and founder of Judicial Watch and Freedom Watch, is suing to get President Obama _deported._

. . . .

“In sum, deportation proceedings should be immediately commenced, an investigation undertaken, a full evidentiary hearing held, and Barack Hussein Obama should be removed from the United States,” Klayman writes in his deportation petition.

The petition was sent to Thomas Homan of Enforcement Removal Operations at the Department of Homeland Security, Thomas Winkowksi of Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Sarah Kendall of the Office of Fraud Detection and National Security at DHS.

Klayman explained it is based “on the grounds that he has falsified various birth and other documents with regard to obtaining a U.S. passport and other privileges as an alleged American citizen.”

. . . .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Klayman insists he is doing this for patriotic reasons. This is obviously a lie. Klayman is using patriotism to hide his personal agendas. He thinks America should be ruled by Republican Party Jews. If things don't go his way, then he start suing and slandering people for being racist Nazis, anti-American, commies, etc.

Speaking of commies, did you know the early communist movement was disproportionately lead by closet Jews? Trotsky, Lenin, and Marx were all closet Jews. They hid their religion, because they wanted gentiles to believe they were one of them. We all know how disastrous communism was on humanity. Right now, Zionism is a disaster upon humanity.

Despite US media and government propaganda and intense political efforts, *Israel is amongst the most unpopular nations in the world*. 

According to your stupidity, hypocrisy, and lies, this means Israel is innocent and the world is an anti-Semitic Nazi or a terrorist sympathizer. East Asians are racist Nazis. Latin Americans are racist Nazis. Africans are racist Nazis. Europeans are racist Nazis. Middle East is filled with racist Nazis or evil Muslim terrorists. Israel slaughters Palestinians and steals Palestinian land with "settlers," but Israel is the beacon of hope for the world. That's how self-righteously dumb you are.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Israel one of world’s most unpopular countries and it’s getting worse: BBC survey*
Israel one of world's most unpopular countries and it's getting worse: BBC survey | The Electronic Intifada
Thu, 06/06/2013

. . . .

The 2013 Country Ratings Poll, conducted by GlobeScan/PIPA for the BBC among 26,299 people around the world between December 2012 and April 2013 found that:

Iran is once again the most negatively viewed country, with negative ratings climbing four points to 59%. Most people also give negative ratings to Pakistan (56%, up five points), North Korea (55%, up three points) and *Israel (52%, up one point).*

The persistent association of Israel with the world’s most negatively viewed countries will come as a disappointment to Israeli government and other _hasbara_ officials who have invested millions of dollars in recent years to greenwash and pinkwash Israel as an enlightened, democratic and technological “Western” country.

. . . .
The *United States is the only Western country surveyed holding favorable views of Israel*, and the only country in the survey with a majority of positive ratings (51 percent, stable).

Views of Israel in Canada and in Australia remain entrenched in negative territory with respectively 57 and 69 percent of unfavourable views.

In the EU countries surveyed, views of Israeli influence are all *strongly negative* and have either hardened further or remained stable.

. . . .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the above poll, Germany is the world's most popular or most liked nation. 

Of course, you would never get this from the US media and government. Instead, all we get are news about evil German Nazis, Hollywood movies about evil German Nazis, TV shows about evil German Nazis, etc. 

Meanwhile, Japan refuses to honestly and fully apologize to South Korea, North Korea, China, Philippines, etc. America's Democrat Party and Republican Party are fine with this. The average Jew obsesses over evil German Nazis. Yeah, who cares about China's and both Koreas' holocaust? Who cares about Native American holocaust? Who cares about Palestinian holocaust? Jewish sufferings are the most important. That's the hypocrisy of the Democrat Party, Republican Party, Israel, and many Jews (not all Jews).

According to various sources, Israel has the most UN resolutions called against a nation. Did you know the US constantly vetoes these UN resolutions against Israel? That's cuz Israel and its diaspora are parasites and the US is its voluntary host.

Thus, America sends nonstop welfare to Israel. America bribes, threatens, and bombs nations (especially Muslim nations) to make them neutral toward Israel or superficially pro-Israel. In return, America is targeted by Muslims around the world. Inside America, the Democrat Party liberals insist that everyone must coddle the "oppressed" Jews and the Republican Party Christians insist that everyone must obey God's desire to spoil Jews.

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## terranMarine

Oh yeah the longer the protest last the more people coming out and confront these silly students

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## TaiShang

AgentOrange said:


> Why not 7 years old kid become president of Taiwan? Why not 7 years old dog? 7 years old dog is 49 years old man? Why racist against 7 year old dog president of Taiwan? Why? Why no kibble for every bowl, a bone for every doghouse? Why not 3 year old dog make decision? 3 year old dog equal to 30 year old fish divided by 24 year old monkey, carry the two. Banana. Why?



LOL. Good one!

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## TaiShang

With the proper (in the negative sense) use of social media and indoctrination/radicalization, the teenagers can somehow be turned into obsessive maniacs going extreme for things they have little (but dreamy) idea about.

Take a look at the case of the ISIS. Similar stuff, on a larger and bloodier scale.

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## Desertfalcon

Like I said, I will NOT respond point by point, to anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi thugs, particularly those who leech off America's freedom and hide within it's security that braver, real men provide, while they ungenerously denigrate that very country they live in. I will NOT respond to anyone like that anymore than any other neo-Nazi bigot or racist. And any person who says things like,

_"I doubt you are a real Catholic. I bet you are a closet Jew. Lots of Jews adopt gentile names to swindle gentiles."_

...are clearly nothing more than sad little bigots and not worth my time. *AgentOrange *may feel comfortable defending such persons, but I will not engaged them in their twisted thinking.


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## nvKyleBrown

Infra_Man99 said:


> Is your company related to overweight domestic security, the obese military, any wasteful government agencies, or too big to fail corporations?
> 
> George Bush said something about don't cut and run. Bush was and is an idiot, but, like a broken clock, sometimes he gets things right.
> 
> I don't believe in running away from all of my problems. Some things are worth ignoring or avoiding, but, many times, I believe in fixing the problem. Majority of Americans (~2/3rds) agree with me that the system is going in the wrong direction. I previously provided proof of this.
> 
> Previously, you misinterpreted what I wrote. Now you claimed about 1/2 of Americans agree with me. I'm starting to think you lack reading comprehension.


Not related to security of any kind, other than reasonably securing the product/services themselves (e.g. locks, software security, etc). Any military sales would be incidental, we do not make military products. The military does buy lots of commercial, off-the-shelf stuff, they very probably consume some of our products in that fashion. Generally, we do not sell to the government, but there are probably cases where government agencies buy/use our products/services. I am only aware of a few cases, it would be a very small part of the business. We did do a bit of consulting with NASA on the shuttle years ago, but that was, again, very very unusual, it is not our normal line of work. We don't make rockets or rocket parts, nothing like that, it was a one-off piece of research (and before we were owned by VLC). As far as too big to fail, my company certainly is not, but VLC might be considered so. There was a scare a few years back, but no mention of the government stepping in. The government would certainly not step in to save my group. Nor would they need to, as I said, we are stable and profitable. There are companies like that.

By the way, the VLC failing would likely not be that big of a deal to us. We're a profitable group, so it would just mean we'd get spun off or sold off to another VLC to pay off debts, raise capital, or whatever the VLC decided (or had decided for it, in the case of bankruptcy). We could come out of such a thing better off, actually.

As far as agreeing or disagreeing, I think I said that 30-40% of Americans have a particular view on how government should be formed. That 2/3rds agree with your view on how things should be is doubtful. There is not a 2/3rds majority view. Saying the system is going in the wrong direction does not mean you agree on which direction it should be going (bigger/smaller). If you mean 2/3rds of people are unhappy, yes. But they are unhappy for different reasons. The small government folks are unhappy because the government isn't small enough for them. The big government folks are unhappy because it isn't big enough. By my calculation, thats 60-80% of the population unhappy (politically, at least). But, no more than half of those unhappy people are unhappy for the same reason your unhappy, unless you are schizophrenic and want the government to be both larger and smaller.

Realistically, people have more complex views. Some are unhappy about civil liberties, some about taxes, etc, etc. That everyone's unhappiness lines up with yours, that is, that they agree with you, is extremely unlikely. That some people agree with you is certain. If you were a majority, you'd have elections won already. But, whether your conservative or liberal, people keep voting against you in sufficient numbers that you don't get what you want (completely).


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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> With the proper (in the negative sense) use of social media and indoctrination/radicalization, the teenagers can somehow be turned into obsessive maniacs going extreme for things they have little (but dreamy) idea about.
> 
> Take a look at the case of the ISIS. Similar stuff, on a larger and bloodier scale.


Yes, but I wouldn't put these HK kids in the same league. The Tianamen students were more tough than these gangsta wannabes. All they can do is block old people from entering their work place. I"ve yet to see them intimidate an uncle that has eaten overnight congee. They be bitch slapped.

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## TaiShang

bolo said:


> Yes, but I wouldn't put these HK kids in the same league. The Tianamen students were more tough than these gangsta wannabes. All they can do is block old people from entering their work place. I"ve yet to see them intimidate an uncle that has eaten overnight congee. They be bitch slapped.



Indeed. I did not mean that HK youth would go that extreme but just wanted to point out the strength of social media to misguide youngsters (even those Western educated and have nothing to do with the Middle East in any way -- cultural, religious, ethnic, historical). 

Thus the proper management and supervison of social media is important.

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## AgentOrange

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Thank you for your correction , I apologize for using the word "core colonies". I hope I didn't offend anyone.



You aren't offensive and you've always conducted yourself with decorum. We may not agree on everything but don't apologize when you've done nothing wrong my friend. 



Trawllu said:


> smar tguys the japs
> 
> why should they take teh UDTA TEER backsides on this one



Maybe not refer to them as japs. Just a suggestion.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

AgentOrange said:


> Nice pictures. I'd refer you to the pictures I posted in other threads of pro-Chinese people in Hong Kong and I'd also ask how your two pictures prove anything about "Western style democracy" or how Hong Kongers didn't build Hong Kong themselves but what's the point?
> 
> You obviously don't understand what's going on in Hong Kong and it's a waste of my time to try to argue with you seriously when deluded Viets like you think trolling threads about China is some noble act of anti-China defiance.


Don't be angry, the truth is the truth, a picture is worth more than thousand words...
You did not answer my serious question, instead a lengthy nonsensical interpretation...


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## Trawllu

AgentOrange said:


> Maybe not refer to them as japs. Just a suggestion.



ok will take care in future for all nationalities

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## AgentOrange

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Don't be angry, the truth is the truth, a picture is worth more than thousand words...
> You did not answer my serious question, instead a lengthy nonsensical interpretation...



Battle of Dung Heap River, what serious question did you pose? All I saw was two random pictures of people waving British flags and a whole lot of nonsensical attribution and assumption by a Viet who doesn't even know the basic historical background leading up to the current Hong Kong protests. If you want to be taken seriously, try not to act like an imbecilic troll.

By the way, to refresh your memory, your actual "serious" question was: "So tell me, what they want to?" What does that even mean? Why am I even responding to you as if you're interested in legitimate debate when your pitiful trolling attempts can't even conform to proper sentence structure?

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## Kolaps

> “Business is down 90%,” said Pui, whose pharmacy is directly across from one of the most heated protest sites, a densely packed neighborhood known as Mong Kok. “It’s just crazy. A lot of stores could close. The protesters aren’t being rational. They should go stay at the government offices.”



Selected comment: *"They should go stay at the government offices."*

LA Times just want to fool the reader, by believing that HK people support the protest, they just don't want to be happened in front of their shops.

I believe Pui is a Christian.

@Black Flag


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## Europa

@TheMatador 

someone is threatening to jump from the rooftop and commit suicide? wth is going on?


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## TaiShang

Kolaps said:


> Selected comment: *"They should go stay at the government offices."*
> 
> LA Times just want to fool the reader, by believing that HK people support the protest, they just don't want to be happened in front of their shops.
> 
> I believe Pui is a Christian.
> 
> @Black Flag



You said it right. Do not expect Western media to provide news-analysis without adding some salt to it to serve their interests. I guess the article seems to be advising the protesters to empty the business district and instead, paralyze the local government offices -- The established US media seems to be concerned that if the protests go on in this stupid direction, they will lose the already dwindling popular support.

In one way or another, even with the Western media and NGO support, the protests are extremely marginalized and their cause is ridiculed in China.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

AgentOrange said:


> Battle of Dung Heap River, what serious question did you pose? All I saw was two random pictures of people waving British flags and a whole lot of nonsensical attribution and assumption by a Viet who doesn't even know the basic historical background leading up to the current Hong Kong protests. If you want to be taken seriously, try not to act like an imbecilic troll.
> 
> By the way, to refresh your memory, your actual "serious" question was: "So tell me, what they want to?" What does that even mean? Why am I even responding to you as if you're interested in legitimate debate when your pitiful trolling attempts can't even conform to proper sentence structure?



Okay, so now can you tell me, what do they (HK protesters) want to?


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## ChineseTiger1986

When over 90% of HKers raise their voice for the support of PRC, then CPC could take the consideration of steamrolling over these gangsters.

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## AgentOrange

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Okay, so now can you tell me, what do they (HK protesters) want to?



Lol, what?


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## terranMarine

AgentOrange said:


> Lol, what?


 yeah what's the question

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## TheMatador

Europa said:


> @TheMatador
> 
> someone is threatening to jump from the rooftop and commit suicide? wth is going on?


Yes in admiralty. Tonight the police move in to clean with force. The pro-Beijing anti-occupy crowd will laugh on the sidelines as occupy protestors are tear gassed and rubber bullet hit.

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## Europa

TheMatador said:


> Yes in admiralty. Tonight the police move in to clean with force. The pro-Beijing anti-occupy crowd will laugh on the sidelines as occupy protestors are tear gassed and rubber bullet hit.



fck the guy looks serious now!


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## Kolaps

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> When over 90% of HKers raise their voice for the support of PRC, then CPC could take the consideration of steamrolling over these gangsters.



You don't need up to 90% support, if you can organize the rival protesters and overwhelm them.

You control the street, basically you can dictate anyone.

Just think how to do that!


Not forget to direct the rival protester to US embassy, other US government property.

As well as Next Media, all pro-democracy political party offices, etc.

Force all of them to evacuate!


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## Kolaps

TheMatador said:


> Yes in admiralty. Tonight the police move in to clean with force. The pro-Beijing anti-occupy crowd will laugh on the sidelines as occupy protestors are tear gassed and rubber bullet hit.



Tear Gas?

I prefer a very stinky gummy like liquid, that can still smell very gross for a week. 

Make them and the protest location wet with it!

I wonder long they can stand with the smell, unless they go home and take a shower.


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## Europa

@TheMatador

*Joshua Wong says activists should not go home *

but many are leaving mk


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## TheMatador

Europa said:


> @TheMatador
> 
> *Joshua Wong says activists should not go home *
> 
> but many are leaving mk


Yes! Mong Kok is liberated by anti-occupy. The people are cheering. Occupy protestors together with their supporters Western presstitues are in retreat and disorganized. Kids show they do not have the stamina to fight on. Now we move to Admiralty for the final showdown in front of CY Leung government building. Leader Benny Tai must be captured and imprisoned. PLA must prevent special forces extraction.

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## Europa

Kolaps said:


> Tear Gas?
> 
> I prefer a very stinky gummy like liquid, that can still smell very gross for a week.
> 
> Make them and the protest location wet with it!
> 
> I wonder long they can stand with the smell, unless they go home and take a shower.



latest news they are retreating, threat worked well 



TheMatador said:


> Yes! Mong Kok is liberated by anti-occupy. The people are cheering. Occupy protestors together with their supporters Western presstitues are in retreat and disorganized. Now we move to Admiralty for the final showdown in front of CY Leung government building.



*Hong Kong demonstrators withdrawing from outside Chief Executive's office, a key point of tension with authorities*

yes, i see a crowd in admiralty


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## TheNoob

This is funny. I have no idea whats going on yet im laughing my *** off with the replies here.


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## Europa

@TheMatador

just make sure their retreat is not tactical
the blue movement should go on


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## TheMatador

TheNoob said:


> This is funny. I have no idea whats going on yet im laughing my *** off with the replies here.


People's Volunteer Army in Hong Kong driving back Western imperialists and their running dogs!

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## TheNoob

TheMatador said:


> People's Volunteer Army in Hong Kong driving back Western imperialists and their running dogs!



GLORIOUS! Let them slurp the taste of the glorious PVA! XD


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## TheMatador

TheNoob said:


> GLORIOUS! Let them slurp the taste of the glorious PVA! XD


You should see the expression on the Western presstitute faces. They were hoping Hong Kong in chaos would trigger similar movements in mainland. Instead their running dogs are being insulted and verbally abused day and night by the common people (eat shxt! fuxk your mother!) until they lost their will to keep fighting. Hong Kong will be liberated from occupation tonight!

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## beijingwalker

*View From China: Hong Kong's Neighbors Baffled By Protests*
Posted: 10/04/2014 12:51 pm EDT Updated: 10/04/2014 9:59 pm EDT


> SHENZHEN, China -- Hong Kong's pro-democracy demonstrators have captured the imagination of people around the world with their disciplined displays of determination and hope in the face of tear gas and gang violence. But in the neighboring Chinese city of Shenzhen, on the mainland, attitudes toward the protests range from ignorance that they're even occurring to bafflement at why Hong Kongers would endanger the material comforts that undemocratic politics has granted them.
> 
> "I don't want it to succeed, and it won't succeed," said Fan Guixin, an unemployed laborer and trash collector in Shenzhen. "What do people want? They want to live in a bigger house and have a higher quality of life ... What does it matter to me who the emperor is?"
> 
> View From China: Hong Kong's Neighbors Baffled By Protests


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## Europa

in admiralty, they are doing a meeting and cheering with joy, something is cooking up there 
why don't you just shut down the power supply, total black out before operation


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## Europa



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## Kolaps

TheMatador said:


> You should see the expression on the Western presstitute faces. They were hoping Hong Kong in chaos would trigger similar movements in mainland. Instead their running dogs are being insulted and verbally abused day and night by the common people (eat shxt! fuxk your mother!) until they lost their will to keep fighting. Hong Kong will be liberated from occupation tonight!



They will retreat tonight, but it doesn't mean HK is liberated from *pro-democracy political parties* and *US consultants*.


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## Europa

Kolaps said:


> They will retreat tonight, but it doesn't mean HK is liberated from *pro-democracy political parties* and *US consultants*.



this will provide more fuel to the flame 






why did they do this stupid job?


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## Kyle Sun

Um ,looks like the majority people of HK start to hate those cockes.

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## mike2000

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Thank you for your correction , I apologize for using the word "core colonies". I hope I didn't offend anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes you did. That's what I find very interesting about the British , despite the Imperialist system, the fact that your side considered a lease of Hong Kong. When , during such times, it was the rule of the day to seize territory through one's shear firepower.
> 
> Your side waged that brutal war against the Qing Dynasty unethically, tho, I must say. The Opium addiction devastated China, not to mention the loss of silver as a result of that so called drug trade.
> 
> 
> 
> Two empires, French Empire and Spanish Empire. I think there is a culture of corruption, colonial mentality amongst former French and Spanish possessions. From Latin America, to parts of Asia, and Africa.



Of the two, i would say France is by far the worse. From Vietnam/cambodia/laos to Africa, their colonies are the worse of today. Especially french colonies in Africa(where i have visited and even briefly lived in some). Many people don't know this(since they always focus too much on the anglo-saxon 'evil/hegemnonistic' U.S/U.K world), but France is by far the worse european coloniser. all french speaking african colonies still use the french currency even today(the Francs CFA). All central and west african french colonies(about 20 countries) still use this currency which is printed in France and shipped to their subjects, worse still, they are all required to keep their financial reserves with the french treasury. This is unheard of, even britain never did such a thing. They intervened openly/directly to toppled and arrest Laurent Mbagbo(ivory coast president) because he wanted to pull out of the the colonial French currency (the francs CFA).

France is still the only former(more like current.lol) european master who still has military bases/troops in almost all its former colonies, from Cameroon,Gabon to senegal/Djibouti etc....to keep its subjects in check. They woulkd have still been in Vietnam today, had the Vietnamese not fought a self destructive bloody war to kick them out.

I wont go into too much detail here, since i dont want to derail this thread. So read this if you are interested. Then you will know that Britain is/was a colonial angel compared to France.

African Monetary Union Stirs Criticism of France - Businessweek

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## tonyget

mike2000 said:


> but France is by far the worse european coloniser.




I beg to differ. In my opinion Britain is the worst coloniser , in a subtle way. Many of the leftover confilcts/issues around the world today, are the legacy of Brits.

The Middle East mess, India-Pakistan confilct, Israel-Palestine issuse, ethnic clash in Sri Lanka/Malaysia , Sino-India border issue etc. The cause of all these issues can trace back to British colonial era.

The trick Brits used to administrate colonies, is to incite the hatred between different local ethnic groups, alienate them from each other, foster one group suppress others. In this way the people in colony will never unite to rebel Brits.

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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> Of the two, i would say France is by far the worse. From Vietnam/cambodia/laos to Africa, their colonies are the worse of today. Especially french colonies in Africa(where i have visited and even briefly lived in some). Many people don't know this(since they always focus too much on the anglo-saxon 'evil/hegemnonistic' U.S/U.K world), but France is by far the worse european coloniser. all french speaking african colonies still use the french currency even today(the Francs CFA). All central and west african french colonies(about 20 countries) still use this currency which is printed in France and shipped to their subjects, worse still, they are all required to keep their financial reserves with the french treasury. This is unheard of, even britain never did such a thing. They intervened openly/directly to toppled and arrest Laurent Mbagbo(ivory coast president) because he wanted to pull out of the the colonial French currency (the francs CFA).
> 
> France is still the only former(more like current.lol) european master who still has military bases/troops in almost all its former colonies, from Cameroon,Gabon to senegal/Djibouti etc....to keep its subjects in check. They woulkd have still been in Vietnam today, had the Vietnamese not fought a self destructive bloody war to kick them out.
> 
> I wont go into too much detail here, since i dont want to derail this thread. So read this if you are interested. Then you will know that Britain is/was a colonial angel compared to France.
> 
> African Monetary Union Stirs Criticism of France - Businessweek



Excellent analysis.


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## Nan Yang

This is a video showing the moment right before pepper spray was used.
Was the police justified ? You decide.

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## beijingwalker

*Raw: Protesters, Residents Clash in Hong Kong*
Clashes broke out on Friday at the site of one of Hong Kong's pro-democracy protests as local residents and pro-Beijing supporters tried to evict activists from the street they are occupying. (Oct. 3)

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## Europa

how do you have access to youtube? 

@Daedalus 

give us the intel, how can one have access to youtube in mainland china?


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## beijingwalker

Local Residents Clash with Occupy Central Protesters





Hong Kong Pro Democracy - Protesters Clash With Pro Government Supporters on Streets







Europa said:


> how do you have access to youtube?
> 
> @Daedalus
> 
> give us the intel, how can one have access to youtube in mainland china?



If you want to access youtube ,facebook and some other sites, you pay one dollar a month to use VPN service which China has dozens of providers and you can pay online by a gentle click, the fee is almost like nothing in China but most Chinese web users just don't care about those websites

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## mike2000

tonyget said:


> I beg to differ. In my opinion Britain is the worst coloniser , in a subtle way. Many of the leftover confilcts/issues around the world today, are the legacy of Brits.
> 
> The Middle East mess, India-Pakistan confilct, Israel-Palestine issuse, ethnic clash in Sri Lanka/Malaysia , Sino-India border issue etc. The cause of all these issues can trace back to British colonial era.
> 
> The trick Brits used to administrate colonies, is to incite the hatred between different local ethnic groups, alienate them from each other, foster one group suppress others. In this way the people in colony will never unite to rebel Brits.



LOOL bro you don't know what you are talking about, I myself have been to English speaking african countries and french ones. I can attest to you how backward/poor the french colonies are compared to english ones. My wife's mum herself is from cameroon(french speaking african colony). France not only demands that its African colonies remain under its yoke, but has large military bases in this countries since independence until today to maintain and scare any head of state who might have any bad idea of ending their influence in this countries.

For example, Niger(who was the worlds poorest country just last year, now its about 2nd to last.lol) a former(more like current) french colony was forced by France to sign a law that grants france a monopoly to AREVA on exploiting its Uranium deposits(the second largest in the world) just before independence in 1960 until just recently in 2008 when the president(Mahmadou Tamdja) revised this law ang opened up the sector to Chinese and Americaninvestors/companies to mine Uranium in Niger since he wanted more competition and better prices for his coutnries resources, but france saw this as a mortal threat to itself and a bad example to other french african leaders(who might have a 'bad idea' about copying/following Nigers president.lol), so they suddenly sponsored a coup, backed with Toureg rebels in the north to topple him and arrest him(he's still behind bars today) and replaced him with a more pro french president(the current president) to continue their exploitation. There are lots of other examples i can give you bro. But that will be another long topic. Afterall,no former Euroepean master(britain included) still has troops/military bases in its former colonies in Africa apart from France(who has one in all its former colonies).

That's why i say, many people don't really know much about french colonies, they focus just on the anglo saxon ones.lol France is wayyyyy worse, belive me. Just look at Haiti, who was paying France an 'independence fee' for almost 100 years until recently when the tsunami happened, and the worlds attention/sympathy turned to Haiti, its during this period that even the U.S forced France to stop taking this illegal/unfair fee from Haiti(the poorest country in the carribean) before france stopped. You have to read more about France colonies bro, then you will understand. Its just because we colonised more countries than France, thats why you think we are worse.lol Do some reasearch.

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## beijingwalker

Very soon those students will be begging the police to save them from angry .ocal Hongkong residents

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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> LOOL bro you don't know what you are talking about, I myself have been to English speaking african countries and french ones. I can attest to you how backward/poor the french colonies are compared to english ones. My wife's mum herself is from cameroon(french speaking african colony). France not only demands that its African colonies remain under its yoke, but has large military bases in this countries since independence until today to maintain and scare any head of state who might have any bad idea of ending their influence in this countries.
> 
> For example, Niger(who was the worlds poorest country just last year, now its about 2nd to last.lol) a former(more like current) french colony was forced by France to sign a law that grants france a monopoly to AREVA on exploiting its Uranium deposits(the second largest in the world) just before independence in 1960 until just recently in 2008 when the president(Mahmadou Tamdja) revised this law since he wanted more independence and competition for His coutnries resources, but france saw this as a mortal threat to itself and a bad example to other french african leaders(who might have a nad idea about copying nigers president.lol), so they suddenly sponsored a coup, backed with Toureg rebels in the north to topple him and arrest him(hes still behind bars today) and replaced him with a more pro french president(the current president) to continue their exploitation. there are lots of other examples i can give you bro. But that will be another long topic. Afterall,no former Euroepean master(britain included) still has troops/military bases in its former colonies in Africa apart from France(who has one in all its former colonies).
> 
> Thats why i say, many people don't really know much about french colonies, they focus just on the anglo saxon ones.lol France is wayyyyy worse, belive me. Just look at Haiti, whowas paying France an i'ndependence fee' until recently when it had the tsunami happened, and the worlds attention/sympathy turned to Haiti, its during this period that even the U.S forced France to stop taking this illegal/unfair fee from Haiti before france stopped. You have to read more about France colonies bro, then you will understand. Its just because we colonised more countries than France, thats why you think we are worse.lol Do some reasearch.



Mon Dieux ! With so many present day semi-dependencies of the old French Empire, no wonder why France is a beacon for many immigrants from Africa.



mike2000 said:


> LOOL bro you don't know what you are talking about, I myself have been to English speaking african countries and french ones. I can attest to you how backward/poor the french colonies are compared to english ones. My wife's mum herself is from cameroon(french speaking african colony). France not only demands that its African colonies remain under its yoke, but has large military bases in this countries since independence until today to maintain and scare any head of state who might have any bad idea of ending their influence in this countries.
> 
> For example, Niger(who was the worlds poorest country just last year, now its about 2nd to last.lol) a former(more like current) french colony was forced by France to sign a law that grants france a monopoly to AREVA on exploiting its Uranium deposits(the second largest in the world) just before independence in 1960 until just recently in 2008 when the president(Mahmadou Tamdja) revised this law ang opened up the sector to Chinese and Americaninvestors/companies to mine Uranium in Niger since he wanted more competition and better prices for his coutnries resources, but france saw this as a mortal threat to itself and a bad example to other french african leaders(who might have a nad idea about copying nigers president.lol), so they suddenly sponsored a coup, backed with Toureg rebels in the north to topple him and arrest him(hes still behind bars today) and replaced him with a more pro french president(the current president) to continue their exploitation. there are lots of other examples i can give you bro. But that will be another long topic. Afterall,no former Euroepean master(britain included) still has troops/military bases in its former colonies in Africa apart from France(who has one in all its former colonies).
> 
> That's why i say, many people don't really know much about french colonies, they focus just on the anglo saxon ones.lol France is wayyyyy worse, belive me. Just look at Haiti, whowas paying France an i'ndependence fee' until recently when it had the tsunami happened, and the worlds attention/sympathy turned to Haiti, its during this period that even the U.S forced France to stop taking this illegal/unfair fee from Haiti before france stopped. You have to read more about France colonies bro, then you will understand. Its just because we colonised more countries than France, thats why you think we are worse.lol Do some reasearch.



Mike, well, come to think of it, France still has an 'Empire' so to say. She still has quite a number of foreign territories or 'Outre me en'.

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## Globenim

I bet those are all Russian mercenaries!

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## AgentOrange

Whilst I don't agree that everything that Britain touched turned to gold (obviously not the case), as some in here do. France was a pretty shitty colonizer. No rules, no uniformity, and a seemingly disjointed and chaotic approach to everything. Here's a comic that illustrates my point:

Credit to reddit/polandball
*"Father's Day Around The World"*

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## Europa

beijingwalker said:


> If you want to access youtube ,facebook and some other sites, you pay one dollar a month to use VPN service which China has dozens of providers and you can pay online by a gentle click, the fee is almost like nothing in China but most Chinese web users just don't care about those websites



but daedalus would say nobody can access youtube in mainland china 

now tell me are you a patriotic nationalist or a traitor communist?


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## LeveragedBuyout

@mike2000 @Nihonjin1051 @tonyget 

Let us unite in hating the French, and usher in an era of brotherhood and peace. Besides, Freedom Fries just taste better.

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## beijingwalker

Europa said:


> but daedalus would say nobody can access youtube in mainland china
> 
> now tell me are you a patriotic nationalist or a traitor communist?



I m sitting in my bedroom in Beijing viewing youtube now, you decide who to believe.

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## mike2000

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Mon Dieux ! With so many present day semi-dependencies of the old French Empire, no wonder why France is a beacon for many immigrants from Africa.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, well, come to think of it, France still has an 'Empire' so to say. She still has quite a number of foreign territories or 'Outre me en'.
> 
> View attachment 111814



ahahahah, my friend Nihonji san, You even know french 'Outre mere' territories? ahahahhaha you seem to be quite well informed(even more than i thought). I do speak french quite fluently, and have lived in France for a long time(did my international relations studies in Paris), plus i have lived briefly in cameroon(an african french colony) as well. So i know quite alot about French colonies/policies/politics. Yes you are right, France almost still has an empire when you see the way they treat their african and carribean subjects. They still have several french overseas territories by the way, But the African ones have it farrrrr worse.


----------



## Zabaniyah

tonyget said:


> I beg to differ. In my opinion Britain is the worst coloniser , in a subtle way. Many of the leftover confilcts/issues around the world today, are the legacy of Brits.
> 
> The Middle East mess, India-Pakistan confilct, Israel-Palestine issuse, ethnic clash in Sri Lanka/Malaysia , Sino-India border issue etc. The cause of all these issues can trace back to British colonial era.
> 
> The trick Brits used to administrate colonies, is to incite the hatred between different local ethnic groups, alienate them from each other, foster one group suppress others. In this way the people in colony will never unite to rebel Brits.



Nah...the French do suck. They just suck.


----------



## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> Whilst I don't agree that everything that Britain touched turned to gold (obviously not the case), as some in here do. France was a pretty shitty colonizer. No rules, no uniformity, and a seemingly disjointed and chaotic approach to everything. Here's a comic that illustrates my point:
> 
> Credit to reddit/polandball
> *"Father's Day Around The World"*
> 
> View attachment 111824







What about Japan? No love from Korea and Taiwan? 











LeveragedBuyout said:


> @mike2000 @Nihonjin1051 @tonyget
> 
> Let us unite in hating the French, and usher in an era of brotherhood and peace. Besides, Freedom Fries just taste better.



ha ha ha! Freedom Fries! 

*in french accent* hu hu hu hu!

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## Europa

beijingwalker said:


> I m sitting in my bedroom in Beijing viewing youtube now, you decide who to believe.



i believe you but others will believe in what daedalus says. he will sabotage china's communist party and that is why i like him. on topic, hong kong, i hope, becomes a beginning to the end of communist party system in china and the start of patriotic nationalism in china. if you are a patriot, support nationalism, if you are a traitor, support communism. the ball is in your court because the direction of wind is changing fast.


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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> ahahahah, my friend Nihonji san, You even know french 'Outre mere' territories? ahahahhaha you seem to be quite well informed(even more than i thought). I do speak french quite fluently, and have lived in France for a long time(did my international relations studies in Paris), plus i have lived briefly in cameroon(an african french colony) as well. So i know quite alot about French colonies/policies/politics. Yes you are right, France almost still has an empire when you see the way they treat their african and carribean subjects. They still have several french overseas territories by the way, But the African ones have it farrrrr worse.



ha ha ha, let's say i have a fondness for a great many french delicacies, beef bourguignon, foi gras, french wine, the french kiss, and well, a taste for all kinds of flavors...ha ha ha! Paris has always been one of my favorite cities in Europe. Something about that city. 

But back on the subject, yes, the French. Well, to be honest, i like how the Protestant powers run their 'empires', seems to be more efficient than say the Catholic ones.


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Europa said:


> i believe you but others will believe in what daedalus says. he will sabotage china's communist party and that is why i like him. on topic, hong kong, i hope, becomes a beginning to the end of communist party system in china and the start of patriotic nationalism in china. if you are a patriot, support nationalism, if you are a traitor, support communism. the ball is in your court because the direction of wind is changing fast.



Communism? Nationalism?

Whats really important is stability, the communists are in power and they keep the peace. Bring them down and a bloodbath will be imminent.

So, mr patriot who happens to be a German Indian. It is patriotic to dismantle a capable communist (in name)government in order to bring about an unproven nationalist government over the dead bodies of millions of Chinese?

The communist party has a myriad of problems but nothing bad enough to snatch away the mandate of heaven.

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## Daedalus

Europa said:


> how do you have access to youtube?
> 
> @Daedalus
> 
> give us the intel, how can one have access to youtube in mainland china?


I use freegate to bypass the great firewall of china. they keep updating it from time to time so that CCP can't block it.



Europa said:


> i believe you but others will believe in what daedalus says. he will sabotage china's communist party and that is why i like him. on topic, hong kong, i hope, becomes a beginning to the end of communist party system in china and the start of patriotic nationalism in china. if you are a patriot, support nationalism, if you are a traitor, support communism. the ball is in your court because the direction of wind is changing fast.


Actually very few common people in mainland china know what is going on in HK, courtesy of CCP's censorship on all media houses. And to tell you bluntly only small percentage of Chinese civilians understand what democracy is, for the majority communism is just the way of life. 
There is a 15 days compulsory communism orientation program when a Chinese student joins college, guess what they teach and show in there. 
So, I dont think CCP is going to fall anytime soon. It's there to stay and we have to accept and deal with it.

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## Johny D

HONG KONG—Hong Kong’s police said Sunday that officers have arrested 30 people since clashes broke out on Friday at the site of pro-democracy protests in Kowloon, and reiterated its call for demonstrators to clear all protest sites.

“Police are now facing an unprecedented challenge,” said police spokesman Hui Chun-tak at a media briefing on Sunday.

“I assure the Hong Kong people that the police have the absolute capability and confidence to handle all affairs taking place in Hong Kong,” he said.

Clashes between protesters and the police have continued throughout the weekend in Mong Kok, where angry crowds had attacked protesters who had occupied the area. The police arrested people in the area for fighting and illegal gathering, some of whom were suspected of having links to organized crime organizations known as Triads. Scuffles have also taken place in Causeway Bay, a separate protest site.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-police-arrest-30-people-for-protest-violence-1412501380
*
I dont see ChineseDraggon around since the protest for democracy has been erupted in HK ...I guess (s)he might be amongst those arrested people! We all PDF members should unite on this and spread strong protest against the cruel Chinese communist party for the freedom of Chinese people..Lets join hands! 
*


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## mike2000

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What about Japan? No love from Korea and Taiwan?
> 
> View attachment 111874
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ha ha ha! Freedom Fries!
> 
> *in french accent* hu hu hu hu!




ahahahahhaha...........thats funny bro....ahhahahaha....got me LFAO here.
Japan and its neighbours.



AgentOrange said:


> Whilst I don't agree that everything that Britain touched turned to gold (obviously not the case), as some in here do. France was a pretty shitty colonizer. No rules, no uniformity, and a seemingly disjointed and chaotic approach to everything. Here's a comic that illustrates my point:
> 
> Credit to reddit/polandball
> *"Father's Day Around The World"*
> 
> View attachment 111824



ahahahahahaha...please guys stop with these images you are killing me with laughter.
I dont think the american members here will be happy with the first image.

As for France, sad to see none of their children is a big boy now. they are all poor/backward countries,.

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## Aepsilons

mike2000 said:


> I dont think the american members here will be happy with the first image.



"DAD" ...hahahahahaha!


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

These clashes are nothing compared to the daily tribulations of the Indian low caste proletariat. 

Join hands with me and I will chuck you cartwheeling into the air.

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## tranquilium

JD_In said:


> HONG KONG—Hong Kong’s police said Sunday that officers have arrested 30 people since clashes broke out on Friday at the site of pro-democracy protests in Kowloon, and reiterated its call for demonstrators to clear all protest sites.
> 
> “Police are now facing an unprecedented challenge,” said police spokesman Hui Chun-tak at a media briefing on Sunday.
> 
> “I assure the Hong Kong people that the police have the absolute capability and confidence to handle all affairs taking place in Hong Kong,” he said.
> 
> Clashes between protesters and the police have continued throughout the weekend in Mong Kok, where angry crowds had attacked protesters who had occupied the area. The police arrested people in the area for fighting and illegal gathering, some of whom were suspected of having links to organized crime organizations known as Triads. Scuffles have also taken place in Causeway Bay, a separate protest site.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-police-arrest-30-people-for-protest-violence-1412501380
> *I dont see ChineseDraggon around since the protest for democracy has been erupted in HK ...I guess (s)he might be amongst those arrested people! We all PDF members should unite on this and spread strong protest against the cruel Chinese communist party for the freedom of Chinese people..Lets join hands! *



Or, you know, this is the National Day holiday in China and everyone gets 10 days off and people are off vacationing.


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## beijingwalker

Daedalus said:


> I use freegate to bypass the great firewall of china. they keep updating it from time to time so that CCP can't block it.
> 
> 
> Actually very few common people in mainland china know what is going on in HK, courtesy of CCP's censorship on all media houses. And to tell you bluntly only small percentage of Chinese civilians understand what democracy is, for the majority communism is just the way of life.
> There is a 15 days compulsory communism orientation program when a Chinese student joins college, guess what they teach and show in there.
> So, I dont think CCP is going to fall anytime soon. It's there to stay and we have to accept and deal with it.



Chinese people know where we are and where India is and how far we came to our respective place in this world. No Chinese would trade our "communism" for Indian "democracy" . I can't say the same for the Indian people. and why did you say that you have to accept and deal with it. what does China' s social system have anything to do with you?

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## Cyberian

Those protests appeared to have ballooned. Unsure what the Chinese government is waiting for?


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## Raphael

No need to worry about the welfare of Chinese people. Countries with 75% literacy/poverty/malnutrition/open-defecation rates are a far more pressing priority. Low caste people are being brutalized right now, maybe in your very neighborhood.

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## Johny D

Raphael said:


> No need to worry about the welfare of Chinese people. Countries with 75% literacy/poverty/malnutrition/open-defecation rates are a far more pressing priority. Low caste people are being brutalized right now, maybe in your very neighborhood.


lol...back to those stories.!!..right now the fact is HK is fighting for democracy and one of our fellow members from HK is missing...!


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## qwerrty

waiting for the silence majority to come in and kick those spoiled brat asses

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## beijingwalker

JD_In said:


> HONG KONG—Hong Kong’s police said Sunday that officers have arrested 30 people since clashes broke out on Friday at the site of pro-democracy protests in Kowloon, and reiterated its call for demonstrators to clear all protest sites.
> 
> “Police are now facing an unprecedented challenge,” said police spokesman Hui Chun-tak at a media briefing on Sunday.
> 
> “I assure the Hong Kong people that the police have the absolute capability and confidence to handle all affairs taking place in Hong Kong,” he said.
> 
> Clashes between protesters and the police have continued throughout the weekend in Mong Kok, where angry crowds had attacked protesters who had occupied the area. The police arrested people in the area for fighting and illegal gathering, some of whom were suspected of having links to organized crime organizations known as Triads. Scuffles have also taken place in Causeway Bay, a separate protest site.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-police-arrest-30-people-for-protest-violence-1412501380
> *I dont see ChineseDraggon around since the protest for democracy has been erupted in HK ...I guess (s)he might be amongst those arrested people! We all PDF members should unite on this and spread strong protest against the cruel Chinese communist party for the freedom of Chinese people..Lets join hands! *



There is no "us" , talk only for your fellow Indians, you can join hands and see who care about your hands.


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## mike2000

Nihonjin1051 said:


> "DAD" ...hahahahahaha!



Yes Nihonji sama, its never good to remember you were once a colony/subject to another nation/country, especially when you are bigger/getting bigger than the said colonial master today. Its the same feeling South Korea has towards Japan, Vietnam has towards China, India/Australia/U.S have towards us, Brazil has towards portugal, Mexico has towards spain etc etc.....

Anyway all this colony stuffs is now in the past(huh....ok except for the French and their african/carribean subjects.lol).

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## Raphael

JD_In said:


> lol...back to those stories.!!..right now the fact is HK is fighting for democracy and one of our fellow members from HK is missing...!



Sounds like you're totally misinformed. What's happening is US-backed terrorists trying to impose a color revolution on an unwilling populace. They're frustrated that their momentum is petering out now, and resorting to extreme which the HK police has an obligation to put down. You find it difficult to infer all this because your country only gained formal independence but never mental independence. You still use the same political and economic systems your White masters decreed you to use; that is demokwacee and Nehru's Fabian economics. You've lived all your life under White rule, and when you look across the Himalayas, you can't understand why other Asians are resisting your beloved White master. You can't begin to understand our mentality because you remain mentally colonized.

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## AgentOrange

SUPARCO said:


> Those protests appeared to have ballooned. Unsure what the Chinese government is waiting for?



The protests have actually shrunk in size, compared to even a week ago. There are increasing numbers of counter protesters, however, who don't want their livelihoods ruined by this economic disruption.

IMO, Occupy/Umbrella has **already** done their worst and Beijing hasn't had to lift a finger because Hong Kong authorities handled things admirably. For China to win, it doesn't have to do anything. For the protesters to win, they will need to drum even more support - and by that I mean even larger protests than what they were able to muster at their peak - and they will have to sit out there for weeks, months, or years.

The fact that the protesters have agreed to stop blocking streets and major intersections on Monday, is, IMHO, already a huge concession to the Hong Kong government and by extension Beijing. Business must go on and the protest crowds are already thinning out as the novelty of it all wears off and as economic realities hit home - i.e. "I wont have a college degree or a job anytime soon if all I do is protest for a living".

Like Occupy Wallstreet, once the momentum is lost, all you'll end up with in a few months are a smattering of diehard idiots living like homeless people in a ramshackle tent city. Of course the leaders of the protest movement will be well taken care of. They've already been offered scholarships to US universities by their CIA handlers which makes sense because those traitors never really cared about Hong Kong, China anyways.

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## AgentOrange

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> These clashes are nothing compared to the daily tribulations of the Indian low caste proletariat.
> 
> Join hands with me and I will chuck you cartwheeling into the air.



That comment made me LOL. Cheers bro.

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## beijingwalker

Maybe he didn't notice that I m becoming active during these days. cause I m on national day vacation and decided not to go travelling with huge crowds . I will disappear after the vacation though, work is very busy.


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## Europa

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Communism? Nationalism?
> 
> *Whats really important is stability,* the communists are in power and they keep the peace. Bring them down and a bloodbath will be imminent.
> 
> So, mr patriot who happens to be a German Indian. *It is patriotic to dismantle a capable communist (in name)government in order to bring about an unproven nationalist government over the dead bodies of millions of Chinese?*
> 
> The communist party has a myriad of problems but nothing bad enough to snatch away the mandate of heaven.



how long one can sustain a superficial stability? i can't see why in this midnight people are on the street in hong kong for instability? yes right now as we speak. why? for what? do you think they are doing this so that when the sun rises, they will get ready-made stability?

and the capable communist government is so capable that millions of dead bodies are not required as billions don't even have the opportunity to see the light of the world from their mothers' wombs.

anyway, good luck to communism if it can sustain for long.


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## Johny D

beijingwalker said:


> Maybe he didn't notice that I m becoming active during these days. cause I m on national day vacation and decided not to go travelling with huge crowds . I will disappear after the vacation though, work is very busy.



what is this? a note from CD?


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## AgentOrange

It's pretty obvious that this JD-in guy is trolling.


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## beijingwalker

JD_In said:


> so what you are doing in UK washing plates of your white masters?



How come you are so sure he is no one of them that UK covets Chinese people consume nearly half of luxury goods in world-Sino-US


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## Daedalus

beijingwalker said:


> Chinese people know where we are and where India is and how far we came to our respective place in this world. No Chinese would trade our "communism" for Indian "democracy" . I can't say the same for the Indian people. and why did you say that you have to accept and deal with it. what does China' s social system have anything to do with you?


Do you have a comprehension problem mate? That is exactly what i said in my post. You are just repeating my post with different words. Chinese are happy with their Communism while we Indians are happy with our democracy. We also couldn't trade our democracy for anything. 
And the "accept and deal with it" part was for those Indians and other westerners who think that CCP will fall one day and china will be a democratic country. Comprendes?


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## Kolaps

OMG!

How mainlander don't know anything about politics???


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## Raphael

JD_In said:


> oh so u polish shoes of white people to support ur education in UK..not bad..keep going! . u look non chinese!  .



I'm not the one in the picture bub. Can't you recognize an Indian when you see one? The day and night contrast in skin tone between the master and the servant? Can't you recognize the servitude when you see it?


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## Europa

qwerrty said:


> waiting for the silence majority to come in and kick those spoiled brat asses



while the silent minority is coming to the admiralty


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## Europa

whoever thinks fooling the present generation of youth is this much easy 






come on, time has changed 

you want to sabotage, good but not in this stupid way


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## beijingwalker

Daedalus said:


> And the "accept and deal with it" part was for those Indians and other westerners who think that CCP will fall one day and china will be a democratic country. Comprendes?



We never hope that you fall cause you are always falling. sorry, we are moving to the top and you are falling behind further and futher.

Indians really don't need to jump out to preach democracy to the Chinese ,cause if India represent s what you can get out of democracy, all the Chinese people will grimace and say oh,please ,no.

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## beijingwalker

still can't find hands to join yours.lol..


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## tonyget

mike2000 said:


> Yes Nihonji sama, its never good to remember you were once a colony/subject to another nation/country, especially when you are bigger/getting bigger than the said colonial master today. Its the same feeling South Korea has towards Japan, Vietnam has towards China, India/Australia/U.S have towards us, Brazil has towards portugal, Mexico has towards spain etc etc.....




Mongol Empire was one of the biggest and cruellest power in human history, but nowdays no ones gives a crap about Mongolia


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## Europa

3 am police is supposed to clear, lets see


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## Daedalus

beijingwalker said:


> We never hope that you fall cause you are always falling. sorry, we are moving to the top and you are falling behind further and futher.
> 
> Indians really don't need to jump out to preach democracy to the Chinese ,cause if India represent s what you can get out of democracy, all the Chinese people will grimace and say oh,please ,no.


 You still didnt understand my statement, I said something *good about China*, I cannot dumb it down more than this. You should read my post #10 again.

You must be the king of contradictory statements. In a single statement you also hoped that India doesn't fail and also declared it a failure.
There are many people in India also who have a lot of misconceptions about china like you have about India. I don't blame you, there is very little people to people contact between Indians and Chinese, you can say it is due to the previous closed nature of CCP or the language barrier.
For me who has seen both sides of the coin, I don't get into India and china politics, it helps me to keep my head calm.
And a friendly advice to you my pong you, get your head out of the sand. Like there are good things happening in China, there are also many good things happening in India. No one in India is preaching anything to you about democracy or how to run your country. (yoga maybe)
My country is also climbing the ladder of progress abeit a little slow but none the less its getting up there.


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## ChineseTiger1986

I think soon those protestors will get beaten down by those angry residents whom consider having their daily life being greatly disturbed.

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## ChineseTiger1986

CD is one of those anti-protest supporters, no way he will get arrested.

Most likely he has his vacation during China's national day.


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## Johny D

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CD is one of those anti-protest supporters, no way he will get arrested.
> 
> Most likely he has his vacation during China's national day.



dont go by someone's social networking account and views...u never know he was loyal to his homeland Honk Kong or main land China! 

I am sure, he was a true HongKonger...he must have fought for his freedom ...cant imagine what could have happened to him....hope he survives the wrath CCP....

*Hope CD is safe and sound and will join us soon*


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

JD_In said:


> dont go by someone's social networking account and views...u never know he was loyal to his homeland Honk Kong or main land China!
> 
> I am sure, he was a true HongKonger...he must have fought for his freedom ...cant imagine what could have happened to him....hope he survives the wrath CCP....
> 
> *Hope CD is safe and sound and will join us soon*



Most HKers are against the protest, it is a fact.

Those protestors are ruining their daily life, it is also a fact.


----------



## Johny D

AgentOrange said:


> So you aren't a short brown Indian with a billion clone brothers? News to me.


lol..know abt u well .that should be suffice..ur knowledge abt Indian is pretty bad...ha ha haaa 

* post reported for using abusive language

*Hope CD is safe and sound and will join us soon*



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most HKers are against the protest, it is a fact.
> 
> Those protestors are ruining their daily life, it is also a fact.



most may be against but many are protesting and we cannot rule out that our man could be amonst those many! ?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Nan Yang said:


> This is a video showing the moment right before pepper spray was used.
> Was the police justified ? You decide.



Those trolls will still pick the edited video to justify themselves.

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## beijingwalker

Daedalus said:


> You still didnt understand my statement, I said something *good about China*, I cannot dumb it down more than this. You should read my post #10 again..





> Actually very few common people in mainland china know what is going on in HK, courtesy of CCP's censorship on all media houses. And to tell you bluntly only small percentage of Chinese civilians understand what democracy is, for the majority communism is just the way of life.
> There is a 15 days compulsory communism orientation program when a Chinese student joins college, guess what they teach and show in there.
> So, I dont think CCP is going to fall anytime soon. It's there to stay and we have to accept and deal with it.



That's your post #10 ,and if you think you were saying something good about China in this post then the comprehension problem lies with you . stop talking about how well you know democracy, I lived in US for 5 years and I know what US style democracy is, but maybe you can insist that I know little about Indian style democracy,about that I will admit . in every country, people's normal way of life is the way of life, same in China, same in India. last year over 100 million Chinese travel abroad,the most in the world. and we know what other countries are like, we prefer our current system,which develops and modernizes our country fast and gets our people rich,for now ,that's what people care the most in China.




> The number of Chinese outbound tourists in 2014 will likely exceed 100 million, more than the population of Germany and nearing the population of Japan.
> Outbound Chinese tourists to surpass 100 million in 2014. Northeast Asian airlines first to benefit | CAPA - Centre for Aviation

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## MarkusS

I wish the people in Honkong all sucess in their fight for democracy and i hope that it spreads to all of China. The people of china have the right to make their own decissions.


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## Aepsilons

tonyget said:


> Mongol Empire was one of the biggest and cruellest power in human history, but nowdays no ones gives a crap about Mongolia



Would you say Mongol Empire or the Hunnic Empire ?


----------



## Daedalus

beijingwalker said:


> That's your post #10 ,and if you think you were saying something good about China in this post then the comprehension problem lies with you .





beijingwalker said:


> *I dont think CCP is going to fall anytime soon*. It's there to stay and we have to accept and deal with it.


First, that post was directed to another member and not you. I was telling that person that CCP is there to stay. You just took it personally. I dont even know why you replied me for that post. 



beijingwalker said:


> we prefer our current system,which develops and modernizes our country fast and gets our people rich,for now ,that's what people care the most in China.


Second, you are just repeating again what I said when I said that communism is a way of life for the mainland people. Now stop twisting words and go to sleep man, its like 2:40 am.


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## general_yermolov_stalin

Nan Yang said:


> This is a video showing the moment right before pepper spray was used.
> Was the police justified ? You decide.



Having seen the video ... Obviously I saw how protestors started pushing the barricades. I would have sent those lazy kids to forcibly do some farming and community work instead of wasting time like this.

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## beijingwalker

You are saying that the Chinese people know little about democracy. how well do millions of Indian farmers know about democracy when their way of life is always trying to find the next meal. we Chinese are pragmatists, we support whatever system that floats our boats and we are also hardcore believers in consumerism.



> more than 100 million travellers will leave mainland China in the next 12 months - and when they travel, they spend. Chinese travellers spent a record $102bn in international tourism in 2012, up 40% from 2011. That's more than the total for American or German visitors. In the first three quarters of 2013, China's expenditure increased by 28%.

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## Götterdämmerung

MarkusS said:


> I wish the people in Honkong all sucess in their fight for democracy and i hope that it spreads to all of China. The people of china have the right to make their own decissions.



Silly boy talking about matter he has no clues about. How about you fight in Italy for democracy and not mafia ruled pseudo-democracy? Even democracy in Germany has been eroding and with TTIP we will kiss goodbye to the rest of democracy that we still have left.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Kolaps said:


> You don't need up to 90% support, if you can organize the rival protesters and overwhelm them.
> 
> You control the street, basically you can dictate anyone.
> 
> Just think how to do that!
> 
> 
> Not forget to direct the rival protester to US embassy, other US government property.
> 
> As well as Next Media, all pro-democracy political party offices, etc.
> 
> Force all of them to evacuate!



We prefer to toy with them.

CPC will show them who is the boss.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Götterdämmerung said:


> Silly boy talking about matter he has no clues about. How about you fight in Italy for democracy and not mafia ruled pseudo-democracy? Even democracy in Germany has been eroding and with TTIP we will kiss goodbye to the rest of democracy that we still have left.



This Italian boy is going to harm the real Germans, so I advice the real Germans to kick him out.

He wanna see China to collapse, but does he have a clue about China-Germany's economic relationship?

China is the 8 million car market for Germany, and Volkswagen has made 70% of its profit in China.

The sanction war against Russia has already caused so much negative impact, now he wanna have a sanction war against China, is he out of his mind or he simply hates Germany so much?

Those pasta fressers were well known of causing troubles for Germany in the history.

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## Götterdämmerung

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This Italian boy is going to harm the real Germans, so I advice the real Germans to kick him out.
> 
> He wanna see China to collapse, but does he have a clue about China-Germany's economic relationship?
> 
> China is the 8 million car market for Germany, and Volkswagen has made 70% of its profit in China.
> 
> The sanction war against Russia has already caused so much negative impact, now he wanna have a sanction war against China, is he out of his mind or he simply hates Germany so much?
> 
> Those pasta fressers were well known of causing troubles for Germany in the history.



This guy is so utterly stupid that in another thread he even claimed that we (the EU) get oil for free because we use USD to buy oil.

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## MarkusS

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This Italian boy is going to harm the real Germans, so I advice the real Germans to kick him out.
> 
> He wanna see China to collapse, but does he have a clue about China-Germany's economic relationship?
> 
> China is the 8 million car market for Germany, and Volkswagen has made 70% of its profit in China.
> 
> The sanction war against Russia has already caused so much negative impact, now he wanna have a sanction war against China, is he out of his mind or he simply hates Germany so much?
> 
> Those pasta fressers were well known of causing troubles for Germany in the history.



1. Im half german and even if i would be 100% italian i could not be kicked out of germany, because EU citizens and live, work and travel free in all EU nations.

2. I dont want china collapse. I want that it is free and democratic, Evry dictatorical regime failes in the end. People demand justice, freedom, human rights and the ability to participate in the nation. There is no alternative for democracy in china.

3. A democratic china would prosper much more. Politicians get elected and can not be so openly corrupt. That gives a stronger economy and more trade between the EU and China. 

4. Calling me a Pasta Fresser just shows what a racist bigot you are. I prefer pasta over dogs. You dont eat pasta?



Götterdämmerung said:


> This guy is so utterly stupid that in another thread he even claimed that we (the EU) get oil for free because we use USD to buy oil.



I never said that, We had a "oil for food" program with Saddam.


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## powastick

MarkusS said:


> 3. A democratic china would prosper much more. Politicians get elected and can not be so openly corrupt. That gives a stronger economy and more trade between the EU and China.


I reject this. Democracy less corrupt? Please, come work in Malaysia, Indonesia, or India. Singapore is strong benevolent dictatorship Lee Kuan Yew. The stronger the authority, the less corruption.

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## Götterdämmerung

MarkusS said:


> I never said that, We had a "oil for food" program with Saddam.



Oh, you seem to undestand my writings here while you claim not to undestand in the other thread. 

Of course you said that, I said that the Euro could have become a petroeuro instead being forced to only use the USD. And it was clear that the petroeuro would not be limited to Iraq but to all other oil exporting nations. 

In the case of oil for food, the food has to be paid to the farmers with our tax money.

Not stop lying, will ya!

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## ChineseTiger1986

MarkusS said:


> 1. Im half german and even if i would be 100% italian i could not be kicked out of germany, because EU citizens and live, work and travel free in all EU nations.
> 
> 2. I dont want china collapse. I want that it is free and democratic, Evry dictatorical regime failes in the end. People demand justice, freedom, human rights and the ability to participate in the nation. There is no alternative for democracy in china.
> 
> 3. A democratic china would prosper much more. Politicians get elected and can not be so openly corrupt. That gives a stronger economy and more trade between the EU and China.
> 
> 4. Calling me a Pasta Fresser just shows what a racist bigot you are. I prefer pasta over dogs. You dont eat pasta?



I don't eat dog, but you eat pasta, hence the difference.

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## Luca1

MarkusS said:


> 1. Im half german and even if i would be 100% italian i could not be kicked out of germany, because EU citizens and live, work and travel free in all EU nations.
> 
> 2. I dont want china collapse. I want that it is free and democratic, Evry dictatorical regime failes in the end. People demand justice, freedom, human rights and the ability to participate in the nation. There is no alternative for democracy in china.
> 
> 3. A democratic china would prosper much more. Politicians get elected and can not be so openly corrupt. That gives a stronger economy and more trade between the EU and China.
> 
> 4. Calling me a Pasta Fresser just shows what a racist bigot you are. I prefer pasta over dogs. You dont eat pasta?
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that, We had a "oil for food" program with Saddam.


 


I think China should be democratic. But you know what, I'm an American. And its up to the people of China to determine their own future. We should not interfere with their own political development as we are not Chinese. I hope that people of China would make the best choice for their own future.


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## MarkusS

Luca1 said:


> I think China should be democratic. But you know what, I'm an American. And its up to the people of China to determine their own future. We should not interfere with their own political development as we are not Chinese. I hope that people of China would make the best choice for their own future.



I don't interfer. All i did was too wish the chinese people all the best in their fight for freedom and democracy.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I don't eat dog, but you eat pasta, hence the difference.


you have a problem with me eating pasta?


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## Götterdämmerung

Luca1 said:


> I think China should be democratic. But you know what, I'm an American. And its up to the people of China to determine their own future. We should not interfere with their own political development as we are not Chinese. I hope that people of China would make the best choice for their own future.



For one, our so called democracy is full of holes and deficiencies. Before we tell others to be become democratic, we first have to reform our system dramatically. Right now we are on our way to a new form of feudalism, not by bloodlines, but by large corporations.

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## MarkusS

powastick said:


> I reject this. Democracy less corrupt? Please, come work in Malaysia, Indonesia, or India. Singapore is strong benevolent dictatorship Lee Kuan Yew. The stronger the authority, the less corruption.



thats wrong, because that means the " authority" concentrates all the corruption on itself. You can see this in evry dictatorship. China, Singapore, North Korea and the Arab Nations as worst example.


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## ChineseTiger1986

MarkusS said:


> you have a problem with me eating pasta?



Do you guys eat pasta every day? Just wondering.



Luca1 said:


> I think China should be democratic. But you know what, I'm an American. And its up to the people of China to determine their own future. We should not interfere with their own political development as we are not Chinese. I hope that people of China would make the best choice for their own future.



We don't interfere the US internal political affairs, so the US also shouldn't interfere ours.



MarkusS said:


> thats wrong, because that means the " authority" concentrates all the corruption on itself. You can see this in evry dictatorship. China, Singapore, North Korea and the Arab Nations as worst example.



And don't forget Russia, since they are now one of the biggest supporters for China's political model.

This is Putin's Russia, love it or leave it.

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## Götterdämmerung

MarkusS said:


> thats wrong, because that means the " authority" concentrates all the corruption on itself. You can see this in evry dictatorship. China, Singapore, North Korea and the Arab Nations as worst example.




LOL

Another exposition of your ignorance. Singapore is a country with one of the lowest level of corruption in the world, while democratic India is more corrupt than authocratic China (Italy is in the same bracket).

Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## bolo

AgentOrange said:


> The protests have actually shrunk in size, compared to even a week ago. There are increasing numbers of counter protesters, however, who don't want their livelihoods ruined by this economic disruption.
> 
> IMO, Occupy/Umbrella has **already** done their worst and Beijing hasn't had to lift a finger because Hong Kong authorities handled things admirably. For China to win, it doesn't have to do anything. For the protesters to win, they will need to drum even more support - and by that I mean even larger protests than what they were able to muster at their peak - and they will have to sit out there for weeks, months, or years.
> 
> The fact that the protesters have agreed to stop blocking streets and major intersections on Monday, is, IMHO, already a huge concession to the Hong Kong government and by extension Beijing. Business must go on and the protest crowds are already thinning out as the novelty of it all wears off and as economic realities hit home - i.e. "I wont have a college degree or a job anytime soon if all I do is protest for a living".
> 
> Like Occupy Wallstreet, once the momentum is lost, all you'll end up with in a few months are a smattering of diehard idiots living like homeless people in a ramshackle tent city. Of course the leaders of the protest movement will be well taken care of. They've already been offered scholarships to US universities by their CIA handlers which makes sense because those traitors never really cared about Hong Kong, China anyways.


The leaders of the protestors like Benny Tai has already got a job and free ticket to the US. The rest of the moronic students do not. They are really fucking up their own future by being used by Tai. 
When the IQ report come out, HK will have dropped a few points. 

Thanks to the students, the future of HK look as bright as Vietnam.



beijingwalker said:


> We never hope that you fall cause you are always falling. sorry, we are moving to the top and you are falling behind further and futher.
> 
> Indians really don't need to jump out to preach democracy to the Chinese ,cause if India represent s what you can get out of democracy, all the Chinese people will grimace and say oh,please ,no.


indian democracy is an oxymoron now. Feudalism is much better.

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## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We prefer to toy with them.
> 
> CPC will show them who is the boss.



Yes, slowly breaking their will and turning the crowding into some sort of hippie event is better then a heavy-handed approach, which might turn them into sort of angry revolutionaries. 

Just allow them to burst into tears at the first sight of angry opposition. LOL.

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## Fukuoka

*Sept. 29: Protesters Are Not Deterred*

Thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators disregarded Beijing’s call to disperse.






The police gathering. The protesters are seeking fully democratic elections for the city’s leader in 2017. But under China’s plan, only candidates vetted by a Beijing-friendly committee would be allowed to run.




Police officers rested early Monday at the end of the first day of mass civil disobedience in Hong Kong.




Protesters took photographs on their mobile phones as a wave of protest extended into the working week.




The police said that 41 people had been injured in clashes over the previous three days, including 12 police officers.




An effigy of Leung Chun-ying, the city’s top leader. Mr. Leung said the government opposed the “unlawful occupation actions by Occupy Central,” the name the pro-democracy movement has adopted.


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## Globenim

These students should be studying. Their protests only serve the "Hong Konger" with stable job and connections in the U.S. who care not one inch about the students, their democracy and only gamble with Hong Kong for personal profit.

Their grades will drop. The economy will be hurt if it goes on longer. They ruin their entire lives with bad grades. And the damaged economy will fall right back at them on top of that. They ruin their reputatation participating in the lockdown and might long be blamed if anything goes big wrong with Hong Kongs business. Only the overseas trouble maker will enjoy that. They will be the ones suffering in close and far future, while their devote leaders rake in the rewards from their foreign backers or left the country.

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## TaiShang

Nan Yang said:


> This is a video showing the moment right before pepper spray was used.
> Was the police justified ? You decide.



Good job by the HK Police. Spread some more pepper on those spoiled brats. LOL



MarkusS said:


> Evry dictatorical regime failes in the end. People demand justice, freedom, human rights and the ability to participate in the nation. There is no alternative for democracy in china.



Like there is no alternative to mafia in Italy?



Götterdämmerung said:


> LOL
> Another exposition of your ignorance. Singapore is a country with one of the lowest level of corruption in the world, while democratic India is more corrupt than authocratic China (Italy is in the same bracket).
> 
> Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I guess here you just owned him. Now it is your call to use him the way you wish.

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## Fukuoka

*Sept: 30: Despite Rain, Protests Don’t Let Up*

The police guarded the entrance to government headquarters as protesters gathered Tuesday for the third night in Hong Kong.




Hong Kong’s leader on Tuesday called for the pro-democracy demonstrators who have blocked major roads in the city to return home immediately, but protest leaders threatened to expand the demonstrations and to occupy government buildings.




Protesters took shelter from a rainstorm as they continued to block a street in the financial Central district.




The protests, which started on Friday when students took to the streets, expanded considerably on Sunday.




Protesters held cell phones in the air. The protesters want Beijing and the Hong Kong government to scrap a decision by China to limit who can run in the 2017 election to choose the next chief executive.




Protesters occupied a main thoroughfare through the Central financial district.




Some protesters slept on the street overnight.




The crowds outside the local government headquarters swelled even larger as people of all ages came to join the demonstration before public holidays on Wednesday, China’s National Day, and Thursday, which is a local holiday.




Protesters sang songs and waved cellphones after a thunderstorm at the Hong Kong government complex.




Umbrellas, the symbol of the protest movement, were displayed on a barricade.


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## Fukuoka

High school students handed out water and supplies to protesters.




A man walking along an empty street near the financial district, which has not been this empty as of late.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Globenim said:


> These students should be studying. Their protests only serve the "Hong Konger" with stable job and connections in the U.S. who care not one inch about the students, their democracy and only gamble with Hong Kong for personal profit.
> 
> Their grades will drop. The economy will be hurt if it goes on longer. They ruin their entire lives with bad grades. And the damaged economy will fall right back at them on top of that. They ruin their reputatation participating in the lockdown and might long be blamed if anything goes big wrong with Hong Kongs business. Only the overseas trouble maker will enjoy that. They will be the ones suffering in close and far future, while their devote leaders rake in the rewards from their foreign backers or left the country.



The democrazy in Taiwan and Hong Kong have taught a valuable lesson to those Mainland Chinese who had once a dream about the democrazy in China.

From Libya to Syria, then to Ukraine, now to Taiwan and Hong Kong, do people realize how good is this so-called "democracy"?



bolo said:


> Thanks to the students, the future of HK look as bright as Vietnam.



Guangzhou and Shenzhen will soon surpass Hong Kong in GDP, then many other Mainland cities will also follow the suit.

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> Chinese people know where we are and where India is and how far we came to our respective place in this world. No Chinese would trade our "communism" for Indian "democracy" . I can't say the same for the Indian people. and why did you say that you have to accept and deal with it. what does China' s social system have anything to do with you?



Very well said. Thank you for educating the Indian, my friend.

Indians, especially those living as malnuorished creatures with the fear of not getting their next meal, are well aware of what democracy is. But Chinese, 100 million of them traveled overseas just this year, do not know what democracy is.

Democracy for Chinese is economic development, technological advancement, and staying atop the world as the most powerful country.

Democracy for India, apparently is, 2 million children dying per year due to undernourishment, mass lack of toilets and basic hygiene, racism, rape and killing of the women (especially) from the northeast, and a nonexistent industrial base and logistics.

No, Indian, keep your democracy for yourself; never trade it for the next meal for 2 million kids dying per year. After all, this is not called genocide and this is not India's Great Leap Forward. You never had it, you will never have it.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> Very well said. Thank you for educating the Indian, my friend.
> 
> Indians, especially those living as malnuorished creatures for fear of not getting their next meal, are well aware of what democracy is. But Chinese, 100 million of them traveled overseas just this year, do not know what democracy is.
> 
> Democracy for Chinese is economic development, technological advancement, and staying atop the world as the most powerful country.
> 
> Democracy for India, apparently is, 2 million children dying per year due to undernourishment, mass lack of toilets and basic hygiene, racism, rape and killing of the women (especially) from the northeast, and a nonexistent industrial base and logistics.
> 
> No, Indian, keep your democracy for yourself; never trade it for the next meal for 2 million kids dying per year. After all, this is not called genocide and this is not India's Great Leap Forward. You never had it, you will never have it.



I think we shouldn't make fun at India.

If CPC didn't succeed to overthrow KMT, then our fate would be pretty the same or even worse.

Just look at the demography of the ROC from 1911 to 1949, the population remained at 450 million.

Do you think ROC could possibly have less people starving compared to India? At least India's population is still thriving, while ROC's population has been stalled for 30 years without any one child policy.

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## TaiShang

Very artistic. Can be as well used as a recruitment poster for an IMBA program or something. Seriously.

Edit: But they need to clean off the trash.


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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> Very well said. Thank you for educating the Indian, my friend.
> 
> Indians, especially those living as malnuorished creatures with the fear of not getting their next meal, are well aware of what democracy is. But Chinese, 100 million of them traveled overseas just this year, do not know what democracy is.
> 
> Democracy for Chinese is economic development, technological advancement, and staying atop the world as the most powerful country.
> 
> Democracy for India, apparently is, 2 million children dying per year due to undernourishment, mass lack of toilets and basic hygiene, racism, rape and killing of the women (especially) from the northeast, and a nonexistent industrial base and logistics.
> 
> No, Indian, keep your democracy for yourself; never trade it for the next meal for 2 million kids dying per year. After all, this is not called genocide and this is not India's Great Leap Forward. You never had it, you will never have it.


The hindus who shoot their mouths off in forums are not Dalits. These internet warriors were born lucky, studied abroad and think they know how to solve the world's problems. They do not care about their malnourished poor.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Daedalus said:


> First, that post was directed to another member and not you. I was telling that person that CCP is there to stay. You just took it personally. I dont even know why you replied me for that post.
> 
> 
> Second, you are just repeating again what I said when I said that communism is a way of life for the mainland people. Now stop twisting words and go to sleep man, its like 2:40 am.


firstly, I think you can go back to India to build some WCs for your fellows

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## general_yermolov_stalin

@Chinese-Dragon what the hell is going on in hong kong?


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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker



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## Nan Yang

Does that means the Occupies has lost ?

*Hong Kong protests: Civil servants at work as numbers dwindle*
Tens of thousands of people have been on the streets in the past week, but only about 100 protesters remained outside government offices at the Admiralty protest site in the Central district on Monday morning, and just ten people were sitting outside the chief executive's office, according to the South China Morning Post.


About 200 remain in Mong Kok, north of the harbour, despite earlier calls by organisers for protesters to withdraw from that site, following clashes at the weekend with people opposed to the demonstrations.

 
Overnight, some protesters in Central dismantled barricades and cleared roads so government officials could get in to work.

BBC News - Hong Kong protests: Civil servants at work as numbers dwindle

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## TaiShang

Nan Yang said:


> Does that means the Occupies has lost ?
> 
> *Hong Kong protests: Civil servants at work as numbers dwindle*
> Tens of thousands of people have been on the streets in the past week, but only about 100 protesters remained outside government offices at the Admiralty protest site in the Central district on Monday morning, and just ten people were sitting outside the chief executive's office, according to the South China Morning Post.
> 
> About 200 remain in Mong Kok, north of the harbour, despite earlier calls by organisers for protesters to withdraw from that site, following clashes at the weekend with people opposed to the demonstrations.
> 
> 
> Overnight, some protesters in Central dismantled barricades and cleared roads so government officials could get in to work.
> 
> BBC News - Hong Kong protests: Civil servants at work as numbers dwindle



I guess it is time for damage control by the traitors.


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## beijingwalker

*Singapore's Prime Minister Lee answers questions on Hong Kong protests*
PUBLISHED: 11:47 PM, OCTOBER 3, 2014





Hong Kong is in a very unique and delicate position. It’s not a sovereign country. It’s one country, two systems. It’s never had elections all the years when the British ran it as a colony. When the British term ended, the arrangement with the Chinese was one country, two systems and some limited form of democracy in Hong Kong, gradually extending to direct universal suffrage ... So the governing law is Basic Law, the sovereignty is China and the geopolitical reality is that Hong Kong is now part of China. China wants Hong Kong to succeed and do well, and is prepared to go very far to help Hong Kong to succeed and do well but they don’t want Hong Kong to become a problem for them on the other side of the Shenzhen river in China. Absolutely not.
So the Hong Kong people have to make one country two systems work. They, as well as the central government in Beijing, have to do that jointly. It’s a delicate business where exactly does one country end and two systems begin. ... There’s always grey areas for interpretation. There will be issues which will have to come up from time to time, such as exactly how are you going to elect the chief executive. And these have to be resolved by Hong Kong and China but in a way which is in the interests of Hong Kong and which doesn’t hurt the interests of China and which is in accordance with the law and the Basic Law. ...

PM Lee answers questions on Hong Kong protests, Tan Pin Pin film on political exiles | TODAYonline

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## beijingwalker

*Hong Kong protests subside as exhaustion sets in*
By Aaron Tam | AFP News – 51 minutes ago

Exhausted Hong Kong demonstrators were debating the next step in their pro-democracy campaign Monday as their numbers dwindled and the city returned to work after a chaotic week of mass protests.

The government had been forced to shut its headquarters on Friday due to the ranks of protesters blocking the access roads, leaving 3,000 civil servants at home. On Monday a knot of protesters kept the entrance to the complex partially blocked with barricades, but opened a narrow section to allow workers to enter.

"I'm happy the protesters opened the barriers today," one female civil servant said as she pushed through. "I need to work!"

In fear of a repeat of ugly scenes a week ago when police unleashed tear gas on the crowds, only a committed core of about a thousand had waged a vigil through the night.

After a public holiday Wednesday and Thursday, for many in the city Monday was their first day back at work.

With some buses still diverted due to roads occupied by the protesters, highways were gridlocked with traffic and subway trains were packed as frustrated commuters tried to find a different route to work.

"They have to let the cars through as soon as possible -- they are blocking the way," said Michael Lau, 25, who rides the tram to work.

Secondary schools in the affected areas also reopened on Monday as the city administration pushed for Hong Kong to get back to normal.

- Exhaustion sets in -

While relieved that they had not been cleared away by police ahead of the government's Monday deadline to abandon the protest sites, tiredness was beginning to show for the few hundred who remained.

"It's good that nothing (no police action) happened but... I hoped that something would happen so we could end this thing quickly," said 18-year-old Otto Ng Chun-lung, a pro-democracy protester and sociology student.

"This is my opinion -- because everyone is just exhausted and we can't go long, long, long time."

But some of those on the streets have vowed to stay and others have promised to return later in the day, insisting their campaign was not losing steam after the week-long standoff that has at times erupted into violence.

"We're going to be here until we get a response from the government," said 20-year-old student Jurkin Wong, who was sitting with friends as they woke from fitful slumber on the streets. "We have to stay here. It's for our future."

"If I'm not working, I will be here -- the numbers are dropping but our hearts have never left," piano teacher Denise Wong told AFP.

The protesters are demanding the right to nominate who can run for election as the former British colony's next leader in 2017. China's Communist authorities insist only pre-approved candidates will be able to run, a system activists dismiss as "fake democracy".

Handed back to Chinese rule in 1997, Hong Kong is governed under a "one countries, two systems" deal that guarantees civil liberties not seen on the mainland, including freedom of speech and the right to protest.

But tensions have been rising over fears that these freedoms are being eroded, as well as rocketing inequality in the Asian financial hub.

- Plea to leave -

University staff made an impassioned plea Sunday for students to head home after the city's embattled chief executive Leung Chun-ying issued an ominous warning that the situation could "evolve into a state beyond control" if the protests do not end soon.

Other movement supporters have also been trying to persuade the remaining students that they should beat a tactical retreat.

"Even those (members of the public) who support the movement don't want to lose money," political analyst Willy Lam told AFP.

"A large number of people here have stocks and shares and have lost money.

"I think it's a wise decision to make a strategic draw down (of people on the ground) as it's hard to convince the public that continuing the blockade would achieve results.

"If talks between the students and the government prove totally futile... and (Chinese president) Xi Jinping is against concessions, then it's possible to switch on the movement again. By that time they would have the moral high ground."

There were hopes of a breakthrough on Sunday when student leader Lester Shum met with mid-ranking officials with the aim of setting conditions for a meeting with Leung's deputy Carrie Lam. However, no agreement was announced.

Hong Kong protests subside as exhaustion sets in - Yahoo News Singapore



> While relieved that they had not been cleared away by police ahead of the government's Monday deadline to abandon the protest sites, tiredness was beginning to show for the few hundred who remained.
> 
> "It's good that nothing (no police action) happened but... I hoped that something would happen so we could end this thing quickly," said 18-year-old Otto Ng Chun-lung, a pro-democracy protester and sociology student.
> 
> "This is my opinion -- because everyone is just exhausted and we can't go long, long, long time."

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## beijingwalker

Those students really painted themselves into a corner



> That pessimism makes the short-term pain more difficult to bear for business owners, many of whom point out that students can simply return to class when the demonstrations end.
> 
> Occupy protests have always been controversial in the city, with opinion often starkly divided along age and class lines: Protesters have overwhelmingly been young, many of them students from prestigious Hong Kong universities, while Hong Kong’s older and poorer populations tend to oppose such actions at much higher rates.
> 
> As night fell over Hong Kong on Sunday, demonstrators faced difficult decisions about how best to turn up the pressure on the government without alienating more local residents.

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> "It's good that nothing (no police action) happened but... I hoped that something would happen so we could end this thing quickly," said 18-year-old Otto Ng Chun-lung, a pro-democracy protester and sociology student.



Idiot! So you thought you could play politics with Beijing?

Make sure your picture is scattered all over the internet so that you would be denied any government jobs and have to pack up and sail to the glorious land of the Queen in the hope of finding a job as a second class citizen.

President Xi will give you no concessions. Swallow your pride and back to school or wherever you first emerged from.

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## Viet

I have full sympathy for the protesters and support their aim. they fight for the right thing, against the barbarism.


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## terranMarine

Xi isn't gonna move an inch, demanding Beijing to make concession (what a joke). It's like a peasant demanding the Emperor to come to terms with commoners. I don't recall something like that has ever happened in other parts of the world.

Vietcongs should worry more about the 9 dash line first

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## Huan

How much money has been lost for Hong Kong as of Monday? How much more money will be lost by next Saturday?


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## Viet

Huan said:


> How much money has been lost for Hong Kong as of Monday? How much more money will be lost by next Saturday?


HK retailers lost about $100m a day. other sectors such as tourism and banking were hard hit. the stock market lost billions.
the most serious thing is investors and people begin to question about the future of HK.


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## Huaren

terranMarine said:


> Xi isn't gonna move an inch, demanding Beijing to make concession (what a joke). It's like a peasant demanding the Emperor to come to terms with commoners. I don't recall something like that has ever happened in other parts of the world.
> 
> Vietcongs should worry more about the 9 dash line first



peasant demanding the Emperor to come to terms with commoners would be just and fine, but in most case some people would twist the idea and simply claim to represent the "peasant" to make demands which would ruin the lives of the most other than their own.

like in this case




I certainly dont want to be one of those small shopowners around the districts in Hongkong, a few days off track could mean life or death, certain "demonstration" with road blocking means you are dead for sure. Do all the begging or kneeling down in front of the public or whatever, those "protesters" wont care about your suffering because of them, in the end you even get blamed for harrasment. Seriously, those ****ing kids are heartless. They dont have to work because of their parents, those onlookers who joined day in and out are not hangging by the thread like local workers around the districts, wherether they get their message through to the government or not, the local workers are gonna pay the heavy price for something they havent even asked for.

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## gambit

Götterdämmerung said:


> For one, *our so called democracy is full of holes and deficiencies. Before we tell others to be become democratic, we first have to reform our system dramatically.* Right now we are on our way to a new form of feudalism, not by bloodlines, but by large corporations.


By that argument, the preventative medicine discipline should be abolished, so should nutritionists and assorted therapists, after all, none of these specialists are ever perfect physical specimens, right ?

The various democracies are not perfect, but they are certainly much better than most of the hell holes in this world. For all your meaningless criticisms of the imperfect systems that gave you the freedom and wealth you currently enjoy, we all know you would rather live in and among imperfect democracies than perfect dictatorships.

You have the courage to criticize the imperfect democracies but are too cowardly to criticize ideal dictatorships.


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## TaiShang

Huaren said:


> peasant demanding the Emperor to come to terms with commoners would be just and fine, but in most case some people would twist the idea and simply claim to represent the "peasant" to make demands which would ruin the lives of the most other than their own.
> 
> like in this case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I certainly dont want to be one of those small shopowners around the districts in Hongkong, a few days off track could mean life or death, certain "demonstration" with road blocking means you are dead for sure. Do all the begging or kneeling down in front of the public or whatever, those "protesters" wont care about your suffering because of them, in the end you even get blamed for harrasment.* Seriously, those ****ing kids are heartless. They dont have to work because of their parents, those onlookers who joined day in and out are not hangging by the thread like local workers around the districts, wherether they get their message through to the government or not, the local workers are gonna pay the heavy price for something their havent asked for.



Let this be a lesson for them and the common Hong Kong citizens would be much more proactive if a similar provocation occurred again. They should organize and strangle these destabilizing protests at their infancy.

The local government should find a place away from the heart of the business and politics for the protesters to gather and sleep like hippies for months under rain and sun.


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Xi isn't gonna move an inch, demanding Beijing to make concession (what a joke). It's like a peasant demanding the Emperor to come to terms with commoners. I don't recall something like that has ever happened in other parts of the world.
> 
> Vietcongs should worry more about the 9 dash line first


should the protest spread into mainland, I guess, emperor Xi will lose his smile


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## TaiShang

*Documents show US openly approves HK chaos*

According to a recent article by MintPress News based in the United States, behind the so-called "Occupy Central" protests, *which masquerade as a "pro-democracy" movement seeking "universal suffrage" and "full democracy," is a deep and insidious network of foreign financial, political, and media support. *Prominent among them is the US State Department and its National Endowment for Democracy (NED) as well as NED's subsidiary, the National Democratic Institute (NDI).

To push this agenda – which essentially is to prevent Beijing from vetting candidates running for office in Hong Kong, thus *opening the door to politicians openly backed, funded, and directed by the US State Department *– NDI lists an array of ongoing meddling it is carrying out on the island.

Since 1997, NDI has conducted a series of missions to Hong Kong to consider the development of Hong Kong's "post-reversion" election framework, *the status of autonomy*, rule of law and civil liberties under Chinese sovereignty.

It also claims: In 2005, NDI initiated a six-month young political leaders program focused on training a group of rising party and political group members in political communications skills.

NDI also admits it has created, funded, and backed other organizations operating in Hong Kong toward achieving the US State Department's goals of subverting Beijing's control over the island.

*It should be no surprise to readers then, to find out each and every "Occupy Central" leader is either directly linked to the US State Department, NED, and NDI, or involved in one of NDI's many schemes.*

"Occupy Central's" self-proclaimed leader, Benny Tai, is a law professor at the aforementioned University of Hong Kong and a regular collaborator with the NDI-funded CCPL. In 2006-2007 he was named as a board member – a position he has held until at least as recently as last year. In CCPL's 2011-2013 annual report , NDI is listed as having provided funding to the organization to.

*There is also Martin Lee, founding chairman of Hong Kong's Democrat Party and another prominent figure who has come out in support of "Occupy Central." Just this year, Lee was in Washington meeting directly with US Vice President Joseph Biden, US Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, and even took part in an NED talk hosted specifically for him and his agenda of "democracy" in Hong Kong. *Lee even has a NED page dedicated to him after he was awarded in 1997 NED's "Democracy Award." With him in Washington was Anson Chan, another prominent figure currently supporting the ongoing unrest in Hong Kong's streets.

*If democracy is characterized by self-rule, than an "Occupy Central" movement in which every prominent figure is the benefactor of and beholden to foreign cash, support, and a foreign-driven agenda, has nothing at all to do with democracy. *It does have, however, everything to do with abusing democracy to undermine Beijing's control over Hong Kong, and open the door to candidates that clearly serve foreign interests, not those of China, or even the people of Hong Kong.

*Exposing the insidious, disingenuous, foreign-driven nature of "Occupy Central" is important. It is also important to objectively examine each and every protest that springs up around the world. Superficiality cannot "link" one movement to another, one group to hidden special interests. Rather, one must adhere to due diligence in identifying and profiling the leaders, following the money, identifying their true motivations, and documenting their links to special interests within or beyond the borders of the nation the protests are taking place in.*

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## beijingwalker

Viet said:


> should the protest spread into mainland, I guess, emperor Xi will lose his smile



Your wishful thinking, check all the social networks in China, we are all against this protest and think they are stupid.



> In China, Shrugs and Sneers for Hong Kong Protesters
> In China, Shrugs and Sneers for Hong Kong Protesters

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## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Your wishful thinking, check all the social networks in China, we are all against this protest and think they are stupid.


understandable. you live with communism since generations and get used with it, while the people of HK despise communism and mainlanders. same goes for TW.


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## Snomannen

Viet said:


> understandable. you live with communism since generations and get used with it, while the people of HK despise communism and mainlanders. same goes for TW.



You have to know that not all Hongkongers support the protest and the action of 'occupying here and there'.

If you are in Hong Kong, you will know that there are a lot of HK citizens are standing against those protesters and have been trying to remove their "strongholds" on the streets.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> understandable.



How quick you change your tune. But at least, the mainlanders have a home - they belong somewhere. HKers also have a home where they belong. But unfortunately for you - in Germany, you will always be alien. In HK, you will always be alien. Even in Vietnam - you are alien. When you go back to Vietnam, if you didn't use your euros - who are you? No one knows you, except that you speak with some funny German accent. So where do YOU belong?

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## Huaren

KirovAirship said:


> You have to know that not all Hongkongers support the protest and the action of 'occupying here and there'.
> 
> If you are in Hong Kong, you will know that there are a lot of HK citizens are standing against those protesters and have been trying to remove their "strongholds" on the streets.



If you havent realized yet, like most (if not all) viet member here he got selective memory which mean he will only see the part he likes to see and ignore anything else, especially (but not limited to) about china issues.

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## Götterdämmerung

gambit said:


> By that argument, the preventative medicine discipline should be abolished, so should nutritionists and assorted therapists, after all, none of these specialists are ever perfect physical specimens, right ?
> 
> The various democracies are not perfect, but they are certainly much better than most of the hell holes in this world. For all your meaningless criticisms of the imperfect systems that gave you the freedom and wealth you currently enjoy, we all know you would rather live in and among imperfect democracies than perfect dictatorships.
> 
> You have the courage to criticize the imperfect democracies but are too cowardly to criticize ideal dictatorships.




What medicine should be applied to prevent the cancer to spread to more countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libyia and Syria. these countries were not very sound and the cancer pretended to be medicine and now the patients are more dead than alive.

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## Viet

KirovAirship said:


> You have to know that not all Hongkongers support the protest and the action of 'occupying here and there'.
> 
> If you are in Hong Kong, you will know that there are a lot of HK citizens are standing against those protesters and have been trying to remove their "strongholds" on the streets.


thank you for the clarification.
how are the opinions of the people in Macau?



FairAndUnbiased said:


> How quick you change your tune. But at least, the mainlanders have a home - they belong somewhere. HKers also have a home where they belong. But unfortunately for you - in Germany, you will always be alien. In HK, you will always be alien. Even in Vietnam - you are alien. When you go back to Vietnam, if you didn't use your euros - who are you? No one knows you, except that you speak with some funny German accent. So where do YOU belong?


well, despite living here since ages I see Germany as a guest land, where I want to live and work for a period of time. my heart belongs to VN. No, I am not alien in my native country. I speak fluent vietnamese and visit my relatives when returning home.


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## AgentOrange

beijingwalker said:


> tiredness was beginning to show for the few hundred who remained.



If anything, these protests showed how futile it is to work with foreign agents to try to destabilize China. IMO, these idiots are actually further from their goals than if they hadn't protested at all. Their movement will be associated with lawlessness and any politicians they support in the future will automatically be suspected of being a foreign puppet.

They succeeded in only uniting the majority of Hong Kong and all of China against them, exposing their foreign pay masters, and wrecking their own futures. Rather than the deluded freedom fighters they believe themselves to be, they will be universally reviled as hanjian traitors to the Chinese race. And they only have themselves to thank.

Anti-China sellouts, your time is up.

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## Europa

AgentOrange said:


> If anything, these protests showed how futile it is to work with foreign agents to try to destabilize China. IMO, these idiots are actually further from their goals than if they hadn't protested at all. Their movement will be associated with lawlessness and any politicians they support in the future will automatically be suspected of being a foreign puppet.
> 
> They succeeded in only uniting the majority of Hong Kong and all of China against them, exposing their foreign pay masters, and wrecking their own futures. Rather than the deluded freedom fighters they believe themselves to be, they will be universally reviled as hanjian traitors to the Chinese race. And they only have themselves to thank.
> 
> Anti-China sellouts, your time is up.



lol how delusional 

see what your former chief secretary says 







Hong Kong – betrayed by China. And abandoned by the British | Anson Chan | Comment is free | The Observer

Former Hong Kong chief secretary Anson Chan Fang On-sang has blasted the British government’s “profoundly disappointing responses” to pro-democracy protests that have rocked the city since late September.

In an op-ed article for the _Guardian _newspaper, Chan, now head of the moderate pro-democracy think tank Hong Kong 2020, writes that the UK has “a moral and legal responsibility to Hong Kong”.

and get the latest news 

from scmp






*LIVE: Officials to meet with Federation of Students as mainland lawyers show support for reform*

*8.15pm* A group of more than 50 mainland lawyers, scholars and other citizens have issued a statement in support of Hong Kong people's pursuit of democracy - while calling for democratic progress on the mainland.

In the statement signed by lawyers including human rights lawyer Teng Biao and others from different parts of the country, the group says Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying "misled" the national legislature into giving the city a framework for the 2017 chief executive election

"[Leung] must be held responsible for misleading the National People's Congress Standing Committee (NPCSC) with his report of political reform," the statement reads. "He must listen to the advice of different social sectors and make remedial measures."

"At the same time we feel that China is closely linked to Hong Kong's," it say. The group strongly demands the NPCSC to start, without hesitation, legislating for the direct elections of deputies to local people's congresses at provincial and municipal levels, "so that people's rights to elect and to be elected are implemented and a government by the people is built."

The group also said it objects to any violence and rights abuse. It notes that Hong Kong protesters' demand for public nomination in the 2017 election is legitimate.


----------



## aliaselin

_US Now Admits it is Funding “Occupy Central” in Hong Kong | Global Research

Just as the US admitted shortly after the so-called “Arab Spring” began spreading chaos across the Middle East that it had fully funded, trained, and equipped both mob leaders and heavily armed terrorists years in advance, it is now admitted that the US State Department through a myriad of organizations and NGOs is behind the so-called “Occupy Central” protests in Hong Kong. _

The Washington Post would report in an article titled, “Hong Kong erupts even as China tightens screws on civil society,” that:

Chinese leaders unnerved by protests elsewhere this year have been steadily tightening controls over civic organizations on the mainland suspected of carrying out the work of foreign powers.

The campaign aims to insulate China from subversive Western ideas such as democracy and freedom of expression, and from the influence, specifically, of U.S. groups that may be trying to promote those values here, experts say. That campaign is long-standing, but it has been prosecuted with renewed vigor under President Xi Jinping, especially after the overthrow of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych following months of street demonstrations in Kiev that were viewed here as explicitly backed by the West.

The Washington Post would also report (emphasis added):

One foreign policy expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive subject, said Putin had called Xi to share his concern about the West’s role in Ukraine. Those concerns appear to have filtered down into conversations held over cups of tea in China, according to civil society group members.

“They are very concerned about Color Revolutions, they are very concerned about what is going on in Ukraine,” said the international NGO manager, whose organization is partly financed by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), blamed here for supporting the protests in Kiev’s central Maidan square. “They say, ‘Your money is coming from the same people. Clearly you want to overthrow China.’ ”

*Congressionally funded with the explicit goal of promoting democracy abroad, NED has long been viewed with suspicion or hostility by the authorities here. But the net of suspicion has widened to encompass such U.S. groups as the Ford Foundation, the International Republican Institute, the Carter Center and the Asia Foundation. *

Of course, NED and its many subsidiaries including the International Republican Institute and the National Democratic Institute do no such thing as “promoting democracy,” and instead are in the business of constructing a global network of neo-imperial administration termed “civil society” that interlocks with the West’s many so-called “international institutions” which in turn are completely controlled by interests in Washington, upon Wall Street, and in the cities of London and Brussels.



_*Image*: While the Washington Post would have readers believe NED is in the business of promoting “freedom of expression” and “democracy” the corporate-financier interests represented on NED’s board of directors are anything but champions of such principles, and are instead notorious for principles precisely the opposite. _
The very concept of the United States ”promoting democracy” is scandalous when considering it is embroiled in an invasive global surveillance scandal, guilty of persecuting one unpopular war after another around the planet against the will of its own people and based on verified lies, and brutalizing and abusing its own citizens at home with militarized police cracking down on civilians in towns like Ferguson, Missouri – making China’s police actions against “Occupy Central” protesters pale in comparison. “Promoting democracy” is clearly cover for simply expanding its hegemonic agenda far beyond its borders and at the expense of national sovereignty for all subjected to it, including Americans themselves.

In 2011, similar revelations were made public of the US’ meddling in the so-called “Arab Spring” when the New York Times would report in an article titled, “U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings,” that:

A number of the groups and individuals directly involved in the revolts and reforms sweeping the region, including the April 6 Youth Movement in Egypt, the Bahrain Center for Human Rights and grass-roots activists like Entsar Qadhi, a youth leader in Yemen, received training and financing from groups like the International Republican Institute, the National Democratic Institute and Freedom House, a nonprofit human rights organization based in Washington.

The article would also add, regarding NED specifically, that:

The Republican and Democratic institutes are loosely affiliated with the Republican and Democratic Parties. They were created by Congress and are financed through the National Endowment for Democracy, which was set up in 1983 to channel grants for promoting democracy in developing nations. The National Endowment receives about $100 million annually from Congress. Freedom House also gets the bulk of its money from the American government, mainly from the State Department.






_*Image*: US Senator John McCain on stage in Kiev, Ukraine cheerleading US
funded sedition in Eastern Europe. In 2011, McCain would famously taunt
both Russia and China that US-funded subversion was coming their way.
“Occupy Central” is one of many waves that have hit China’s shores since._


Pro-war and interventionist US Senator John McCain had famously taunted both Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and President Xi Jinping’s predecessor in 2011 that the US subversion sweeping the Middle East was soon headed toward Moscow and Beijing. The Atlantic in a 2011 article titled, “The Arab Spring: ‘A Virus That Will Attack Moscow and Beijing’,” would report that:

He [McCain] said, “A year ago, Ben-Ali and Gaddafi were not in power. Assad won’t be in power this time next year. This Arab Spring is a virus that will attack Moscow and Beijing.” McCain then walked off the stage.

Considering the overt foreign-funded nature of not only the “Arab Spring,” but now “Occupy Central,” and considering the chaos, death, destabilization, and collapse suffered by victims of previous US subversion, “Occupy Central” can be painted in a new light – a mob of dupes being used to destroy their own home – all while abusing the principles of “democracy” behind which is couched an insidious, diametrically opposed foreign imposed tyranny driven by immense, global spanning corporate-financier interests that fear and actively destroy competition. In particular, this global hegemon seeks to suppress the reemergence of Russia as a global power, and prevent the rise of China itself upon the world’s stage.

The regressive agenda of “Occupy Central’s” US-backed leadership, and their shameless exploitation of the good intentions of the many young people ensnared by their gimmicks, poses a threat in reality every bit as dangerous as the “threat” they claim Beijing poses to the island of Hong Kong and its people. Hopefully the people of China, and the many people around the world looking on as “Occupy Central” unfolds, will realize this foreign-driven gambit and stop it before it exacts the heavy toll it has on nations that have fallen victim to it before – Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Egypt, and many others.​

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## Europa

and now even the chinese from hong kong and mainland alike have come to support hong kong umbrella movement which has been funded by the americans 



what a joke china has turned into under the great communist regime 


see what your former chief secretary says

View attachment 113981


Hong Kong – betrayed by China. And abandoned by the British | Anson Chan | Comment is free | The Observer

Former Hong Kong chief secretary Anson Chan Fang On-sang has blasted the British government’s “profoundly disappointing responses” to pro-democracy protests that have rocked the city since late September.

In an op-ed article for the _Guardian _newspaper, Chan, now head of the moderate pro-democracy think tank Hong Kong 2020, writes that the UK has “a moral and legal responsibility to Hong Kong”.

and get the latest news

from scmp

View attachment 113982


*LIVE: Officials to meet with Federation of Students as mainland lawyers show support for reform*

*8.15pm* A group of more than 50 mainland lawyers, scholars and other citizens have issued a statement in support of Hong Kong people's pursuit of democracy - while calling for democratic progress on the mainland.

In the statement signed by lawyers including human rights lawyer Teng Biao and others from different parts of the country, the group says Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying "misled" the national legislature into giving the city a framework for the 2017 chief executive election

"[Leung] must be held responsible for misleading the National People's Congress Standing Committee (NPCSC) with his report of political reform," the statement reads. "He must listen to the advice of different social sectors and make remedial measures."

"At the same time we feel that China is closely linked to Hong Kong's," it say. The group strongly demands the NPCSC to start, without hesitation, legislating for the direct elections of deputies to local people's congresses at provincial and municipal levels, "so that people's rights to elect and to be elected are implemented and a government by the people is built."

*The group also said it objects to any violence and rights abuse. It notes that Hong Kong protesters' demand for public nomination in the 2017 election is legitimate.

*


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## aliaselin

_John McCain and his close ally ISIS memebers_



Europa said:


> Former Hong Kong chief secretary Anson Chan Fang On-sang has blasted the British government’s “profoundly disappointing responses” to pro-democracy protests that have rocked the city since late September.


Anson Chan Fang On-sang was promoted by Chris Patten in colony times



Europa said:


> A group of more than 50 mainland lawyers, scholars and other citizens have issued a statement in support of Hong Kong people's pursuit of democracy - while calling for democratic progress on the mainland.


50 is 0.0000003% of Chinese population, you can not guarantee some mutants in such a big number

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## Europa

aliaselin said:


> View attachment 114004
> 
> _John McCain and his close ally ISIS memebers_
> Anson Chan Fang On-sang was promoted by Chris Patten in colony times
> 50 is 0.0000003% of Chinese population, you can not guarantee some mutants in such a big number



indians and tibetans showing support to hong kong

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Europa said:


> indians and tibetans showing support to hong kong
> 
> View attachment 114049


I think Indians should firstly support the dalits to have houses and low caste people to have WCs

or may 70% Indians should have WCs

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## Europa

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> I think Indians should firstly support the dalits to have houses and low caste people to have WCs
> 
> or may 70% Indians should have WCs



indians in hong kong demanding


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## AgentOrange

Europa said:


> lol how delusional
> 
> see what your former chief secretary says
> 
> View attachment 113981
> 
> 
> Hong Kong – betrayed by China. And abandoned by the British | Anson Chan | Comment is free | The Observer
> 
> Former Hong Kong chief secretary Anson Chan Fang On-sang has blasted the British government’s “profoundly disappointing responses” to pro-democracy protests that have rocked the city since late September.
> 
> In an op-ed article for the _Guardian _newspaper, Chan, now head of the moderate pro-democracy think tank Hong Kong 2020, writes that the UK has “a moral and legal responsibility to Hong Kong”.
> 
> and get the latest news
> 
> from scmp
> 
> View attachment 113982
> 
> 
> *LIVE: Officials to meet with Federation of Students as mainland lawyers show support for reform*
> 
> *8.15pm* A group of more than 50 mainland lawyers, scholars and other citizens have issued a statement in support of Hong Kong people's pursuit of democracy - while calling for democratic progress on the mainland.
> 
> In the statement signed by lawyers including human rights lawyer Teng Biao and others from different parts of the country, the group says Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying "misled" the national legislature into giving the city a framework for the 2017 chief executive election
> 
> "[Leung] must be held responsible for misleading the National People's Congress Standing Committee (NPCSC) with his report of political reform," the statement reads. "He must listen to the advice of different social sectors and make remedial measures."
> 
> "At the same time we feel that China is closely linked to Hong Kong's," it say. The group strongly demands the NPCSC to start, without hesitation, legislating for the direct elections of deputies to local people's congresses at provincial and municipal levels, "so that people's rights to elect and to be elected are implemented and a government by the people is built."
> 
> The group also said it objects to any violence and rights abuse. It notes that Hong Kong protesters' demand for public nomination in the 2017 election is legitimate.



How does that article contradict anything I've said? It doesn't. It actually has nothing to do with my points. You randomly picked out an article about the Hong Kong protests, pasted it under my comments, and then made some smug comment that reveals more of your own ignorance. 

Speaking of delusional, why is Aksai Chin still in Chinese hands and why are you still on PDF?

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## Beidou2020

Europa said:


> and now even the chinese from hong kong and mainland alike have come to support hong kong umbrella movement which has been funded by the americans
> 
> 
> 
> what a joke china has turned into under the great communist regime
> 
> 
> see what your former chief secretary says
> 
> View attachment 113981
> 
> 
> Hong Kong – betrayed by China. And abandoned by the British | Anson Chan | Comment is free | The Observer
> 
> Former Hong Kong chief secretary Anson Chan Fang On-sang has blasted the British government’s “profoundly disappointing responses” to pro-democracy protests that have rocked the city since late September.
> 
> In an op-ed article for the _Guardian _newspaper, Chan, now head of the moderate pro-democracy think tank Hong Kong 2020, writes that the UK has “a moral and legal responsibility to Hong Kong”.
> 
> and get the latest news
> 
> from scmp
> 
> View attachment 113982
> 
> 
> *LIVE: Officials to meet with Federation of Students as mainland lawyers show support for reform*
> 
> *8.15pm* A group of more than 50 mainland lawyers, scholars and other citizens have issued a statement in support of Hong Kong people's pursuit of democracy - while calling for democratic progress on the mainland.
> 
> In the statement signed by lawyers including human rights lawyer Teng Biao and others from different parts of the country, the group says Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying "misled" the national legislature into giving the city a framework for the 2017 chief executive election
> 
> "[Leung] must be held responsible for misleading the National People's Congress Standing Committee (NPCSC) with his report of political reform," the statement reads. "He must listen to the advice of different social sectors and make remedial measures."
> 
> "At the same time we feel that China is closely linked to Hong Kong's," it say. The group strongly demands the NPCSC to start, without hesitation, legislating for the direct elections of deputies to local people's congresses at provincial and municipal levels, "so that people's rights to elect and to be elected are implemented and a government by the people is built."
> 
> *The group also said it objects to any violence and rights abuse. It notes that Hong Kong protesters' demand for public nomination in the 2017 election is legitimate.
> 
> *



As opposed to the repulsive Indian regime where they can't even provide basic toilets for their citizens? 

The entire country of India is kept together through brute military force. There are dozens of separatist groups in India seeking to gain freedom from the monstrosity that is the Indian regime. Tamils, Sikhs, Assam, Sikkim, Kashmiris, etc 

India is a backward country precisely due to the failure of the Indian political system. This is why China is succeeding and India is a total failure where young children starve to death and half the population is illiterate which results in the rape epidemic you have in India.

Indian regime is so utterly corrupt that people can't even properly estimate the amount of looting going on in India. Even the estimates are severely underestimated.

No food to eat, no toilets, full of diseases, illiterate population, no infrastructure, rape epidemic, overpopulation, etc.
That is the achievement of the utterly failed poetical system of India.
The Indian regime remains a complete monstrosity. A barbaric and corrupt regime that can't even give the most basic needs for its citizens.
What a truly vulgar and repulsive regime.
UGH!

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## Beidou2020

This protest movement couldn't fill up the Beijing Bird's Nest stadium and in the end they got nothing out of it.
The protest movement has already died.

Couldn't even manage to last 2 weeks. 

China does not give into anyones demands and this has been proven crystal clear.
China has won and the protest has lost.

China is judge, jury and executioner

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## Europa

AgentOrange said:


> How does that article contradict anything I've said? It doesn't. It actually has nothing to do with my points. You randomly picked out an article about the Hong Kong protests, pasted it under my comments, and then made some smug comment that reveals more of your own ignorance.
> 
> Speaking of delusional, why is Aksai Chin still in Chinese hands and why are you still on PDF?



lol you a canadian said the movement was associated with lawlessness while the former chief executive of hong kong as well as 50 lawyers from mainland china said the movement was legitimate 











they are the hong kongers but you are a canadian


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## Beidou2020

Europa said:


> lol you a canadian said the movement was associated with lawlessness while the former chief executive of hong kong as well as 50 lawyers from mainland china said the movement was legitimate
> 
> View attachment 114063
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are the hong kongers but you are a canadian



Protest movement is already over 
There is only a few hundred protestors.

When are the Sikhs going to get their independence?

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## Europa

Beidou2020 said:


> Protest movement is already over
> There is only a few hundred protestors.
> 
> When are the Sikhs going to get their independence?



when demands are met, there is no need to protest
now the next chief executive of hong kong might be an indian 
i hope an indian becomes the president of prc one day


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## Beidou2020

The Hong Kong 'protestors' didn't even have enough people to fill up the Bird's Nest stadium in Beijing and not even 2 weeks have passed and the protest movement is already dead 

What a joke it turned out to be!

After all that trying and jumping up and screaming, the 'protestors' got NOTHING from the CPC and the protest movement couldn't even last for 2 weeks 

It turned the ordinary Hong Kong people against these 'protestors' and eventually made this entire movement into a complete farce.

This shows once again that no one will ever make the CPC kowtow to these 'protest movements'.

But now the CPC will slowly turn the screws on these 'protestors' and their foreign backers over the next few weeks and months.

USAID, foreign NGO's, foreign media, foreign religious groups and foreign companies that have had any involvement with this farce should be kicked out permanently.

Time to bring the hammer down in ruthless and uncompromising fashion.

Go Communist Party of China

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## Beidou2020

Europa said:


> when demands are met, there is no need to protest
> now the next chief executive of hong kong might be an indian
> i hope an indian becomes the president of prc one day



Hong Kong will STILL have the same political system after this 'protest' movement 
CPC will choose the leader of Hong Kong.
CPC has won!
'Protestors' have lost big time 

There is a much higher chance of an Italian woman becoming the leader of India

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## ChineseTiger1986

At least the Ukrainians were descended from the Slavic/Scytho-Sarmatian fighting warriors, whereas these Gangbazi peasants are a freaking joke.

These cowards don't have the gut to turn Hong Kong into a second Ukraine.

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## Europa

Beidou2020 said:


> Hong Kong will STILL have the same political system after this 'protest' movement
> CPC will choose the leader of Hong Kong.
> CPC has won!
> 'Protestors' have lost big time
> 
> There is a much higher chance of an Italian woman becoming the leader of India



student leaders are in talks with leung, what are you talking about? ask anyone who is in hong kong, so wait and see 

btw, hong kong now belongs to indians in hong kong 
so get ready for colonization of china 2.0 
thank you ccp


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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> At least the Ukrainians were descended from the Slavic/Scytho-Sarmatian fighting warriors, whereas these Gangbazi peasants are a freaking joke.
> 
> These cowards don't have the gut to turn Hong Kong into a second Ukraine.



If they're going to have a protest, at least make it last for 2 freaking weeks.
This bunch of losers couldn't even last that long 

This 'protest movement' has to go down as the worst 'protest movement' EVER!

CPC is laughing.
It turned ordinary HK people against this insignificant groups of hooligans big time.

CPC will still vet every future leader of Hong Kong.

Their 15 seconds of fame is up. Considering it didn't even last 2 weeks, I think its about 5 seconds of fame.

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## Beidou2020

Europa said:


> student leaders are in talks with leung, what are you talking about? ask anyone who is in hong kong, so wait and see
> 
> btw, hong kong now belongs to indians in hong kong
> so get ready for colonization of china 2.0
> thank you ccp



They were tricked into talking and that made the 'protestors' disappear 

Now the police will make sure the movement doesn't form again as it has dispersed.

Indians are looked down as backward by vast majority of Hong Kong people.

Just ask the wife of Martin Jacques who was an Indian and he said how much the Hong Kong people despise Indians. He said it in his book. Go read it.

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## Europa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> At least the Ukrainians were descended from the Slavic/Scytho-Sarmatian fighting warriors, whereas these Gangbazi peasants are a freaking joke.
> 
> These cowards don't have the gut to turn Hong Kong into a second Ukraine.



so finally you realized it!
dna is everything
china's weakness is southern chinese
china's strength is northern chinese
this is because of chenghiz khan
you will realize many more eventually
some people are born to be slaves
some are born to be masters
this is how we all are made


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> If they're going to have a protest, at least make it last for 2 freaking weeks.
> This bunch of losers couldn't even last that long
> 
> This 'protest movement' has to go down as the worst 'protest movement' EVER!
> 
> CPC is laughing.
> It turned ordinary HK people against this insignificant groups of hooligans big time.
> 
> CPC will still vet every future leader of Hong Kong.
> 
> Their 15 seconds of fame is up. Considering it didn't even last 2 weeks, I think its about 5 seconds of fame.



I hope they could have some gut like those maidan neo-nazis from Ukraine to start some bloodshed, but too bad these people were descended from the pussy KMT and the slaves colonized under the UK.



Europa said:


> so finally you realized it!
> dna is everything
> china's weakness is southern chinese
> china's strength is northern chinese
> this is because of chenghiz khan
> you will realize many more eventually



Not all South Chinese are born weakling, since Mao and his early CPC guerilla fighters were all South Chinese from Hunan.

The Cantonese army was also known as the brave fighters in the Chinese history, but people from HK has generally a weak mind though, same for people from Shanghai.

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## Europa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I hope they could have some gut like those maidan neo-nazis from Ukraine to start some bloodshed, but too bad these people were descended from the pussy KMT and the slaves colonized under the UK.
> 
> Not all South Chinese are born weakling, since Mao and his early CPC guerilla fighters were all South Chinese from Hunan.
> 
> The Cantonese army was also known as the brave fighters in the Chinese history, but *people from HK has generally a weak mind though, same for people from Shanghai.*



may be that was why japan targeted them first. 
whatever, you said it right, these hk protesters don't have the guts to pick up arms like ukranians


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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I hope they could have some gut like those maidan neo-nazis from Ukraine to start some bloodshed, but too bad these people were descended from the pussy KMT and the slaves colonized under the UK.



Yup, very true.

Atleast in 1989, those mainland students gave it a decent try. That was a proper protest.

These bunch of jokers in HK can't even do a proper protest. Truly embarrassing.
These students probably wanted to skip school and joined in the 'protest movement' as an excuse.
Now that they have gotten fed up of it, they have left.

It just shows apart from the very core group of leaders of this, this movement has very little support.
If you don't have true passion for something, you can't do it for very long.
This shows this movement was not done by people that have a true passion for it.
Vast majority of these students just went along for the ride as it was 'cool' to skip class and do hooligan things.
Life gets a bit tough after the 1st week, and they decide they've had enough and its not 'cool' anymore.

Truly passionate protestors are those in Egypt, Occupy Wallstreet, etc that will stay for months and even have bloodshed.

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## Huaren

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Geopolitically, you are right, North China represents the military strength, whereas South China represents the economy.
> 
> From the Chinese Dynasties in the history, those strong dynasties all have the northern capital, whereas those weak small dynasties have the southern capital.
> 
> Even Mao was born South Chinese, but he had a mindset of a strong northern ruler, and he picked Beijing (the northern capital), whereas his KMT counterpart Chiang Kai Shek who had a weak mindset of a small southern ruler with a southern capital like Nanjing.
> 
> Although PRC was founded by the South Chinese, but it has the North Chinese spirit.
> 
> ROC was founded by the South Chinese with a typical weakling South Chinese spirit, thus it was destined to fail.



This "north strong, south weak" about chinese rhetoric is stupid, there is no such thing as northern or southern "spirit", chinese in the north have experienced more crisis so they were forced to fight more often compared with chinese in the south who got more fertile lands and peaceful enviroment, but when chinese in the south were forced to fight they have proven their courage more than enough, same as brethren from the north. ROC failed not because it was founded by sounthern chinese, it was because they cant win the hearts of chinese majority, who were overwhelmingly poor and more receptive of the idea of class representation from the communists. And ROC was extremly unucky in facing many internal and external enemies all at the same time.

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## AgentOrange

Beidou2020 said:


> There is a much higher chance of an Italian woman becoming the leader of India



LMAO 



Europa said:


> lol you a canadian said the movement was associated with lawlessness while the former chief executive of hong kong as well as 50 lawyers from mainland china said the movement was legitimate
> 
> View attachment 114063
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are the hong kongers but you are a canadian



They are lawless - they admitted as much themselves when today, they conceded to the government and agreed to stop illegally blocking the streets and entrances to places of business.

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## beijingwalker

China is so mixed up, especially now the country has the best highway roads, railway and air aviation system in the world, it moves billions of people every year efficiently and comfortably, here in Beijing everyone is from everywhere. it will be very hard to tell northerners and southerner apart in the future.

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## powastick

There is a saying that southerners have more Han because of the Mongolian conquest which push the population southward. Then they have the Qing Dynasty where Manchus migrated southward.

Another one for example, surname Cai migrated en mass southward after the failed Huang Chao rebellion during Tang Dynasty to Guangdong and Fujian Provice. Later to Taiwan and South-East Asia after fall of Ming.




ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The northernized Chinese only care about China's future prosperity, and we do care the stability in North China, because we know only a stable North China will bring a stable unified China. Only with that, the South China could benefit its economic development from this stability.


You talk about unity, you think southerners don't care about unity? Those HK have too much influence from westerners and you blame the entire southern chinese. That kind of speech are for people who want to break China apart.

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## Aepsilons

beijingwalker said:


> *Singapore's Prime Minister Lee answers questions on Hong Kong protests*
> PUBLISHED: 11:47 PM, OCTOBER 3, 2014
> View attachment 113235
> 
> Hong Kong is in a very unique and delicate position. It’s not a sovereign country. It’s one country, two systems. It’s never had elections all the years when the British ran it as a colony. When the British term ended, the arrangement with the Chinese was one country, two systems and some limited form of democracy in Hong Kong, gradually extending to direct universal suffrage ... So the governing law is Basic Law, the sovereignty is China and the geopolitical reality is that Hong Kong is now part of China. China wants Hong Kong to succeed and do well, and is prepared to go very far to help Hong Kong to succeed and do well but they don’t want Hong Kong to become a problem for them on the other side of the Shenzhen river in China. Absolutely not.
> So the Hong Kong people have to make one country two systems work. They, as well as the central government in Beijing, have to do that jointly. It’s a delicate business where exactly does one country end and two systems begin. ... There’s always grey areas for interpretation. There will be issues which will have to come up from time to time, such as exactly how are you going to elect the chief executive. And these have to be resolved by Hong Kong and China but in a way which is in the interests of Hong Kong and which doesn’t hurt the interests of China and which is in accordance with the law and the Basic Law. ...
> 
> PM Lee answers questions on Hong Kong protests, Tan Pin Pin film on political exiles | TODAYonline



So eloquently and diplomatically worded. I love it. Well said Lee Sensei !


----------



## Fukuoka

*Oct. 1: A Test of ‘One Country, Two Systems’*

A protester held an umbrella on Wednesday in Hong Kong.




For more than a year, a group of pro-democracy activists had warned Beijing that if it set rules for the elections that did not comply with internationally accepted norms for free and fair elections, they would engage in nonviolent protests in the Central district of Hong Kong, the heart of Asia’s most important financial center.




Joshua Wong, a 17-year-old student activist, has been at the center of the democracy movement that has rattled the Chinese government’s hold on this city.




Freedom of speech, assembly and religion and a free press are all enshrined in Hong Kong’s mini-constitution, the Basic Law, drafted to govern the city of 7.2 million upon its return to Chinese sovereignty in 1997 after more than 150 years of British rule.




Hong Kong residents are guaranteed those rights until 2047, and a legal system inherited from the British helps keep it intact.




It is a system called “one country, two systems” that the leaders in Beijing hope — or hoped — would someday also be applied to Taiwan to encourage its political reunion with the motherland. Taiwan has governed itself since 1949.




Student protesters listened during evening speeches. Protest leaders have drawn on civil disobedience movements of the past, citing Henry David Thoreau and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.




Demonstrators slept in Hong Kong’s Wanchai district.


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## Fukuoka

*Oct. 2: Beijing Remains Firm as Protesters Face a Dilemma*

Demonstrators at the main protest site, where their number appeared thinner but surged again in the evening.




Pro-democracy demonstrators recycled plastic bottles at a collection point. The protesters faced a choice Thursday in the face of a government strategy to wait them out, as they considered whether to escalate their confrontation with the authorities by storming a government building or to begin searching for an exit strategy.




A pro-democracy protester slept at Tamar Park. After a two-day public holiday, many Hong Kong residents were supposed to return to work on Friday, meaning that the traffic delays and disruptions caused by the protests would affect a broader swath of the public, potentially cutting into support for the demonstrations.




Police stood guard outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong.




A taxi driver gave a thumbs-up to pro-democracy protesters as he drove past the protest site.




A large crowd of protesters gathered around Hong Kong’s main government offices after the authorities warned of “serious consequences” if demonstrators tried to enter and occupy the complex.




Protesters confronted the police outside Hong Kong’s Legislative Council on Thursday.




Student protesters formed a human chain across a main road to prevent people from entering.


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## Fukuoka

*Oct. 3: A Straining Day for Hong Kong Protests*

Pro-democracy protesters in two parts of Hong Kong came under assault on Friday from men who tore down their encampments.




Police officers controlling the crowd after the confrontation in Mong Kok, one of the most densely populated neighborhoods in the world. Skirmishing between protesters and the men trying to remove them began there in the afternoon.




A man screaming at pro-democracy protesters to stop occupying an area of the Causeway Bay shopping district, where brawls also broke out. The groups of men who stormed the two sites came abruptly and in force, and on two sides of Victoria Harbor at about the same time, leaving many in the pro-democracy camp convinced that the assaults were planned.




An encampment being broken apart in Mong Kok. After nearly a week in which the tens of thousands of protesters were, for the most part, not only nonviolent but assiduously polite and clean, the attacks came as a shock.




A pro-democracy protester being escorted by police officers in Mong Kok. Protesters raised questions about the lack of police in both areas that came under attack, accusing the authorities of allowing the attacks to occur.




The sit-ins on major roads still drew thousands, but appeared diminished on Friday as Hong Kong residents returned to work after a two-day holiday.




Several of the groups leading the protests threatened to call off planned negotiations with the government unless officials prevented further attacks.




Police officers at Hong Kong’s government offices in Admiralty on Friday. Many hundreds of activists maintained their siege of the office of the city’s leader, Leung Chun-ying.




http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/01/world/asia/hong-kong-protest-photos.html?_r=2


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## AgentOrange

Europa said:


> student leaders are in talks with leung, what are you talking about? ask anyone who is in hong kong, so wait and see
> 
> btw, hong kong now belongs to indians in hong kong
> so get ready for colonization of china 2.0
> thank you ccp



Why don't Indians try to colonize Aksai Chin first? You know, like you said they would. When's that going to happen and why are you still in PDF since the Indian army hasn't done jack?

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## Aepsilons

@LeveragedBuyout , @Chinese-Dragon , @mike2000 , @TaiShang, @ChineseTiger1986 , @Huaren , @Huan ; sometimes I really think the Diplomat reads PDF's East Asian Section because we discussed all these points last week, and they just published this article just today. lol.





---------------


*Japan Dips Its Toe into the Hong Kong Protests*


Since the Occupy Central movement in Hong Kong re-intensified on September 27 when 50 students managed to reenter the barricaded Civic Square, Japan has been relatively silent on the issue – until last Friday. While the rest of the world has watched the tense situation unfold, Hong Kong’s third-largest trading partner has been reluctant to weigh in on the issue, for fear that it will be seen as meddling in China’s domestic affairs. This fear is especially potent right now as Japan seeks to improve damaged ties with Beijing and hopefully hold a summit between Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese President Xi Jinping at the upcoming APEC summit in Beijing this November.

Japan’s first official statement on the issue came from Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga at a press conference, where he said “Japan strongly hopes that Hong Kong’s free and open system will be kept under the principle of ‘one nation, two systems’ so that the close relationship between Japan and Hong Kong will be maintained.” He further said that Hong Kong’s stability was important for the entire region.

However, government officials who spoke with the _Japan Times_ were less supportive of the protesters in Hong Kong, or Japan’s involvement in the issue. One official said “We should not say any more (than what’s been officially said). That would be better,” while another told the media outlet that Japanese support of the protest “shouldn’t be made clear.” The officials did make clear that Hong Kong is very important economically for Japan, while the _Japan Times_ noted that even Suga did not directly answer when asked by reporters if Tokyo supports the protesters.

Japan is certainly constrained by its economic ties to both mainland China and Hong Kong. There are 1,200 Japanese businesses operating in Hong Kong alone, and the city is the world’s largest importer of Japanese agricultural products, about 111 billion ($1.01 billion) worth in 2011, or roughly one quarter of the total. Hong Kong is likely attracted to the higher quality of Japanese food products, as a large percentage of the city’s citizens are leery of potential health hazards associated with mainland China’s agriculture.

However, Japan has a much larger interest in improving its tenuous ties with Beijing at the moment, particularly as the Occupy Central movement does not represent a strategic interest to Tokyo or its relationship with Hong Kong. Nor would the loss of the democratic freedoms the protesters are seeking to protect clearly or immediately affect that relationship. As my colleague Zach has pointed out, the protesters face a stiff and all but insurmountable challenge if China should choose to forcefully remove them. Japan appears to be more interested in maintaining stability in Hong Kong, whatever form that takes, so that business can continue as normal without hindering its attempts to hold high-level talks next month.


Japan Dips Its Toe into the Hong Kong Protests | The Diplomat

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## Fukuoka

*Oct. 4: Hong Kong Protesters Continue Campaign Despite Attacks*

Pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong held one of the largest rallies of their campaign Saturday evening, a day after assaults on their encampments.




An opponent of the pro-democracy campaign, center, was grabbed by protesters amid skirmishes on Saturday. Student stewards at the demonstrations tried to stop quarrels from escalating into fights. 




Joshua Wong, a 17-year-old student activist, preparing to speak at a protest Saturday. The government has vowed to take “all actions necessary” to clear the area by Monday.




Young activists insisting on fully democratic elections did not relent on Saturday. At least 18 people were injured in violent confrontations on Friday, the police said.




Demonstrators listened to pro-democracy speeches on Saturday, the seventh day of the student-led campaign to prevent mainland China from restricting Hong Kong’s choices for a new leader.




Confronting pro-democracy demonstrators on Saturday, a man held up a banner and yelled abuse. Some Hong Kong residents had cheered the assaults against protesters on Friday.




A crowd trying to prevent a man from dismantling a barricade that protesters had placed on a main road, blocking traffic into the shopping district of Mong Kok.




Messages of support for the pro-democracy campaign, widely known as the Umbrella Revolution, have been left on the office building for the Hong Kong government.




Catholics calling for peace near a protest site. A week ago, the police used tear gas against demonstrators, and violence on Friday was attributed in part to members of organized crime gangs.




The police surrounded a man after a scuffle that began when he tried to remove one of the barricades set up by protesters. Throughout Saturday afternoon, groups of middle-aged men attacked the barriers.

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## Fukuoka

A protester rested on a blockaded road Saturday, shielding himself with an umbrella, now the symbol of the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong.


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## gambit

May be it is time for the PLA to roll in the tanks. This is not Tiananmen Square of 1989. Today, with the availability of social media, the images of tanks running over bodies will serve as intimidation and deterrence to prospective democracy believers seeking to make voices in China.


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## LeveragedBuyout

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @LeveragedBuyout , @Chinese-Dragon , @mike2000 , @TaiShang, @ChineseTiger1986 , @Huaren , @Huan ; sometimes I really think the Diplomat reads PDF's East Asian Section because we discussed all these points last week, and they just published this article just today. lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> 
> 
> *Japan Dips Its Toe into the Hong Kong Protests*
> 
> 
> Since the Occupy Central movement in Hong Kong re-intensified on September 27 when 50 students managed to reenter the barricaded Civic Square, Japan has been relatively silent on the issue – until last Friday. While the rest of the world has watched the tense situation unfold, Hong Kong’s third-largest trading partner has been reluctant to weigh in on the issue, for fear that it will be seen as meddling in China’s domestic affairs. This fear is especially potent right now as Japan seeks to improve damaged ties with Beijing and hopefully hold a summit between Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese President Xi Jinping at the upcoming APEC summit in Beijing this November.
> 
> Japan’s first official statement on the issue came from Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga at a press conference, where he said “Japan strongly hopes that Hong Kong’s free and open system will be kept under the principle of ‘one nation, two systems’ so that the close relationship between Japan and Hong Kong will be maintained.” He further said that Hong Kong’s stability was important for the entire region.
> 
> However, government officials who spoke with the _Japan Times_ were less supportive of the protesters in Hong Kong, or Japan’s involvement in the issue. One official said “We should not say any more (than what’s been officially said). That would be better,” while another told the media outlet that Japanese support of the protest “shouldn’t be made clear.” The officials did make clear that Hong Kong is very important economically for Japan, while the _Japan Times_ noted that even Suga did not directly answer when asked by reporters if Tokyo supports the protesters.
> 
> Japan is certainly constrained by its economic ties to both mainland China and Hong Kong. There are 1,200 Japanese businesses operating in Hong Kong alone, and the city is the world’s largest importer of Japanese agricultural products, about 111 billion ($1.01 billion) worth in 2011, or roughly one quarter of the total. Hong Kong is likely attracted to the higher quality of Japanese food products, as a large percentage of the city’s citizens are leery of potential health hazards associated with mainland China’s agriculture.
> 
> However, Japan has a much larger interest in improving its tenuous ties with Beijing at the moment, particularly as the Occupy Central movement does not represent a strategic interest to Tokyo or its relationship with Hong Kong. Nor would the loss of the democratic freedoms the protesters are seeking to protect clearly or immediately affect that relationship. As my colleague Zach has pointed out, the protesters face a stiff and all but insurmountable challenge if China should choose to forcefully remove them. Japan appears to be more interested in maintaining stability in Hong Kong, whatever form that takes, so that business can continue as normal without hindering its attempts to hold high-level talks next month.
> 
> 
> Japan Dips Its Toe into the Hong Kong Protests | The Diplomat



Interesting, when you mention names in the beginning of a new thread, the PDF Twitter account mentions me in its tweet. Convenient.

I know that this has been mentioned before, but I don't see any upside to Japan issuing even the bland statement that it did. If the protestors are seen as pawns of outsiders, it undermines their cause. If the protestors are abandoned by outsiders, it creates feelings of bitterness. 

Hong Kong, and even Xinjiang, is less of a threat to the CCP than protests in Wukan. As other articles have pointed out, mainlanders couldn't care less about HK complaints, because they are not perceived to entirely belong to the same nation, but the Wukan protests struck at the heart of everything that's wrong with the Chinese development model. 

As far as the cause itself, I can't believe how inept the protestors were. Even if the candidates for chief executive were selected by Beijing, it would still be an incremental step towards democracy. The CCP has shown time and again that it prefers gradual, cautious moves, and when it is resisted, it has no choice but to strike back with an iron fist if it doesn't want to invite yet more protest. The HK protestors should have worked within these constraints for gradual change; now, at best, they will get nothing, and at worst, jail and a rollback of the reforms already in place.

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## Fukuoka

*Oct. 5: Future of Protest Is Uncertain*


Pro-democracy demonstrators began pulling back on their blockade of the offices of Hong Kong’s leader on Sunday and debated whether to abandon another key encampment as the government set a Monday morning deadline for the police to restore access to the government’s headquarters.





It was unclear whether either concession had the support of any of the main protest organizations and could be sustained in the face of criticism by protesters opposed to compromise.




A leader of the ong Kong Federation of Students warned that talks would be suspended if the government made any attempt to forcefully drive away the protesters.




“A dialogue is not a compromise,” Alex Chow of the Hong Kong Federation of Students said. “We will start arranging talks with the government, because we understand that there are people in both the government and here who want to solve society’s problems.”




The Monday morning deadline set up a possible confrontation between the passionate and, often disjointed protest movement, and a government that, taking its cue from Beijing, has refused to compromise on the protesters’ broadly shared demands: Mr. Leung’s resignation and democratic elections for his successor.




The police used tear gas a week ago in an effort to disperse protesters, but more crowds arrived in response to what were perceived by many as unnecessarily heavy-handed tactics by the authorities.




A government spokesman urged student leaders to clear a footbridge leading to the main government offices and to allow 3,000 staff members to return to work on Monday. He also asked for roads in Admiralty, near the government offices, to be reopened so that schools in the area could resume classes.

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## terranMarine

LeveragedBuyout said:


> As far as the cause itself, I can't believe how inept the protestors were. Even if the candidates for chief executive were selected by Beijing, it would still be an incremental step towards democracy. The CCP has shown time and again that it prefers gradual, cautious moves, and when it is resisted, it has no choice but to strike back with an iron fist if it doesn't want to invite yet more protest. The HK protestors should have worked within these constraints for gradual change; now, at best, they will get nothing, and at worst, jail and a rollback of the reforms already in place.



Students are so easy to manipulate and the British/Americans are shortsighted as well. Beijing gave them the option as a good will and this is how they repay CCP back with a chaotic gesture. The protest can not last, these idiots have shot themselves in the foot including the Americans wasting all that money to promote Democracy. The result is meaningless, the world is watching how this end with failure. It's time to revise some of the treatment for the city.

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## LeveragedBuyout

terranMarine said:


> Students are so easy to manipulate and the British/Americans are shortsighted as well. Beijing gave them the option as a good will and this is how they repay CCP back with a chaotic gesture. The protest can not last, these idiots have shot themselves in the foot including the Americans wasting all that money to promote Democracy. The result is meaningless, the world is watching how this end with failure. It's time to revise some of the treatment for the city.



How much money did the US spend on this protest, and who did it spend the money on? Let me guess, this is a CIA operation?

On the other hand, no matter the outcome of this protest, Taiwan will be uneasy. There are no winners here.

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## bobsm

powastick said:


> You talk about unity, you think southerners don't care about unity? Those HK have too much influence from westerners and you blame the entire southern chinese. That kind of speech are for people who want to break China apart.



Exactly. Most of the people I know want unity for China. 團結就是力量 We all know that the only reason the westerners are attacking China is their fear that China will one day unite all Chinese, and they will lose their current standing. There will always be a minority of weak minded that others will exploit, but no need to generalize. As for northern and southern Chinese, we are all the same: Chinese.

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## terranMarine

LeveragedBuyout said:


> How much money did the US spend on this protest, and who did it spend the money on? Let me guess, this is a CIA operation?
> 
> On the other hand, no matter the outcome of this protest, Taiwan will be uneasy. There are no winners here.



US Now Admits it is Funding “Occupy Central” in Hong Kong

Beats me how much they had spend.

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## northeast

bobsm said:


> Exactly. Most of the people I know want unity for China. 團結就是力量 We all know that the only reason the westerners are attacking China is their fear that China will one day unite all Chinese, and they will lose their current standing. There will always be a minority of weak minded that others will exploit, but no need to generalize. As for northern and southern Chinese, we are all the same: Chinese.


One coward is coward，a bunch of cowards are still cowards .one sheep is the food of wolf，a crowed of sheep are still the food of wolves.Unity won't make you strong unless everyone is brave.Numbers don't matters that much.

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## TaiShang

The article is a sort of late comer. Hence, irrelevant now. As for interfering in another state's internal affairs, that's an offence under international law. Besides, Japan has its own soft spots, thus, a consensus not to interfere in each other's political-social issues is possibly the best route to take for both.

Soft spots are easy to scratch and the region is full with soft spots. No body is spared.



LeveragedBuyout said:


> As other articles have pointed out, mainlanders couldn't care less about HK complaints, because they are not perceived to entirely belong to the same nation



Just as New Yorkers could not care less about Texans' complaints, right? But sovereignty and national territorial integrity is another issue, if it is what you try to imply.

I guess those articles should just test and challenge China's sovereignty over Hong Kong to see China's resolve and the Chinese people's reaction.

This attempt to paint HK as somehow separate from the rest of China is no less lame than Texan or Californian independence movements.

Other than this, certainly, HK's economic woes is a concern for their on residents, local government and Beijing. It is not by accident that Beijing subsidizes HK. Because Beijing has sole autonomy and thus responsibility.



LeveragedBuyout said:


> As far as the cause itself, I can't believe how inept the protestors were. Even if the candidates for chief executive were selected by Beijing, it would still be an incremental step towards democracy. The CCP has shown time and again that it prefers gradual, cautious moves, and when it is resisted, it has no choice but to strike back with an iron fist if it doesn't want to invite yet more protest. The HK protestors should have worked within these constraints for gradual change; now, at best, they will get nothing, and at worst, jail and a rollback of the reforms already in place.



This was a big blunder on part of the string holders. Some heads should roll over the State Department and a bunch of CIA extensions here and there.

I see one big problem with the US handling of its foreign diplomacy. This has been the case with rightist-sentimentalist Bush and centrist-sentimentalist Obama: The US has recently been too in a rush, hasty to reveal its true color all at once -- all the cards it has, so to speak. There is no strategic silence, or a momentary step-back to see the bigger picture, to calculate costs and benefits, to let the early hot-headedness pass... Led by Biden and Kerry, they simply jump into every occasion and speak their mind, which allows the opponent to develop counter-strategies early on.

I guess US has a serious leadership problem and I guess your Constitution allows you to overthrow a government by force when it turns tyrannical. I consider this plundering of foreign legitimacy and influence an extension of tyranny. Deal with it, US people. Let's see if you will be greeted with open arms or riot police.

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## LeveragedBuyout

terranMarine said:


> US Now Admits it is Funding “Occupy Central” in Hong Kong
> 
> Beats me how much they had spend.



Ah, I see where this idea comes from. Congress funds NED, NED funds NDI, and NDI funds Chinese NGOs, and one of the protestors sits on one of the boards of one of those NGOs. I can only conclude that my tinfoil hat is malfunctioning, because I didn't immediately see the hand of the State Department behind the protests. State clearly isn't as subtle as the Confucius Institutes.

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## bobsm

The umbrella revolution won’t give Hong Kong democracy. Protesters should stop calling for it.
This is about inequality, not politics, so democracy can't fix the problem.
Eric X. Li
By Eric X. Li October 6 at 1:01 AM
Eric X. Li is a venture capitalist and political scientist in Shanghai.

Protesters in Hong Kong on Oct. 4. (Anthony Kwan/Getty Images)

HONG KONG — The prevailing media narrative about the Hong Kong protest — namely that the citizens are politically dissatisfied and are fighting for democracy against the tyranny of Beijing — is false. What’s actually happening is this: A fringe of radical (or sometimes, more charitably, merely naive) ideologues are recasting the real and legitimate economic grievances of people here as a fight about Hong Kong’s autonomy. The movement is part of a global trend you might call maidancracy (rule of the square, from the infamous Maidan in central Kiev where the Ukrainian protests began). If carried out to its full extent, it will not end well for Hong Kong.

Maidancracy is an increasingly common post-Cold-War phenomenon. From the former Soviet Union to Southeast Asia, from the Arab world to Ukraine, it has affected the lives and futures of hundreds of millions of people. Hong Kong’s iteration shares certain characteristics with the ones in Cairo and Kiev: First, there is general popular discontent over the prevailing state of affairs and the region’s probable future. Second, while the foot soldiers are largely well-intentioned people with genuine concerns for their own welfare and that of the Hong Kong society, they are led by activists with a strong ideological agenda. As a result, their aim becomes the overthrow of the government or sometimes the entire political system. Third, the press relentlessly cheers them on and thereby amplifies the movement and turns it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fourth, democracy is always the banner.

These movements generally fail when they are put down violently, with tragic loss of life (think of Syria). In the rare cases in which they succeed, they lead to long periods of suffering and destruction (think of Ukraine, where more than a decade of continuous color revolutions have torn the country apart and now threaten the nation’s very survival). Some maidan movements seem to run on a perpetual cycle: get on the square to remove a government, only to return to the square to remove the next one (think of Egypt). In the meantime, paralysis, chaos and even violence reign.

Those trends have already developed in Hong Kong. Tens of thousands of protesters are occupying the central city district of one of the world’s largest financial centers demanding a particular method for electing the city’s future chief executives. They even set a deadline for the current chief executive, Leung Chun-ying, to resign, or else. (In accord with the typical maidan arc, violent skirmishes have begun between protesters and residents frustrated by the inconvenience and fearful of long-term threats to their livelihoods.)

But the protest message, as described by the loudest activists, is problematic, because its central theme of democracy for Hong Kong is all wrong. The degree of political participation in Hong Kong is actually at its highest in history. Before 1997, Hong Kong was a British colony for 155 years, during which it was ruled by 28 governors — all of them directly appointed by London. For Chris Patten, the last British governor of Hong Kong, to now brand himself as the champion of democracy is hypocrisy of the highest order.

Only after the return of sovereignty to China 17 years ago did Hong Kong gain real public participation in governance. Today, half of the legislature is directly elected by the public and the other half by what are called functional constituencies. The chief executive, a native Hong Konger, is selected by a committee of 1,200 other Hong Kongers.

Further, Beijing has now devised a plan for voters to elect the next chief executive directly, rather than by committee, in 2017 among candidates fielded by a nominating committee — also made up of Hong Kongers. The proximate cause for today’s upheaval is the protesters’ demand for direct public nomination of candidates, too.

But the context matters: General discontent has provided fertile soil for this movement, and the sources of that dissatisfaction have nothing to do with imaginary diktats from Beijing. Hong Kong is going through a tough period of economic and social dislocation. Its unique advantage as the only port into and out of China has largely disappeared as the mainland’s own market economy scales up. Its manufacturing base, which provided ample employment, has been moved to cheaper locations. Globalization and the expanding Chinese economy have elevated the city’s position as an international financial center, but the economic benefits have mainly accrued to landowners and those who are engaged in financial intermediation and deployment of capital. Median income has been stagnant and is dropping, but costs of living, especially housing, have been rising. The wealth gap is among the highest in the world.

Empirical data demonstrates the nature of public discontent, and it is fundamentally different from what is being portrayed by the protesting activists. Over the past several years, polling conducted by the Public Opinion Program at the University of Hong Kong has consistently shown that well over 80 percent of Hong Kongers’ top concerns are livelihood and economic issues, with those who are concerned with political problems in the low double digits at the most.

When the Occupy Central movement was gathering steam over the summer, the protesters garnered 800,000 votes in an unofficial poll supporting the movement. Yet less than two months later an anti-Occupy campaign collected 1.3 million signatures (from Hong Kong’s 7 million population) opposing the movement. The same University of Hong Kong program has conducted five public opinion surveys since April 2013, when protesters first began to create the movement. All but one showed that more than half of Hong Kongers opposed it, and support was in the low double digits.

Hong Kong’s economic issues are daunting challenges for any government. But they have been made even more difficult by protesters attempting, successfully it seems, to manufacture a narrative that Beijing is the cause of Hong Kong’s troubles. By misdirecting the frustration and anxiety of Hong Kongers to Beijing, the maidancracy ideology has overtaken rational discourse about the root causes of Hong Kong’s problems and their solutions.

Given all this, the future of Hong Kong is not nearly as bleak as it looks on the streets at the moment. Hong Kong is fundamentally different from the likes of Egypt and Ukraine. The economy is largely prosperous. Rule of law still prevails. Resources are abundant and can be directed and allocated in the right ways to address the structural challenges. The vast majority of Hong Kongers want to solve problems and are not ideological. And most of all, Hong Kong remains an integral part of an economically vibrant and politically stable China. As Martin Jacques wrote in Britain’s Guardian newspaper, “China is Hong Kong’s future – not its enemy.”

At the moment, the situation is tense. If either side makes the mistake of escalating, we know that maidancracy can be destructive. Hong Kong’s current conditions do not call for such destruction. Let calm return to the City by the Harbor. Hong Kong needs problem solvers, not revolutionaries.

source: washingtonpost, just search for the title.

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## Aepsilons

LeveragedBuyout said:


> Ah, I see where this idea comes from. Congress funds NED, NED funds NDI, and NDI funds Chinese NGOs, and one of the protestors sits on one of the boards of one of those NGOs. I can only conclude that my tinfoil hat is malfunctioning, because I didn't immediately see the hand of the State Department behind the protests. State clearly isn't as subtle as the Confucius Institutes.


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## TaiShang

*Documents show US openly approves HK chaos*

According to a recent article by MintPress News based in the United States, behind the so-called "Occupy Central" protests, which masquerade as a "pro-democracy" movement seeking "universal suffrage" and "full democracy," is a deep and insidious network of foreign financial, political, and media support. Prominent among them is the US State Department and its National Endowment for Democracy (NED) as well as NED's subsidiary, the National Democratic Institute (NDI).

To push this agenda – which essentially is to prevent Beijing from vetting candidates running for office in Hong Kong, thus opening the door to politicians openly backed, funded, and directed by the US State Department – NDI lists an array of ongoing meddling it is carrying out on the island.

Since 1997, NDI has conducted a series of missions to Hong Kong to consider the development of Hong Kong's "post-reversion" election framework, the status of autonomy, rule of law and civil liberties under Chinese sovereignty.

It also claims: In 2005, NDI initiated a six-month young political leaders program focused on training a group of rising party and political group members in political communications skills.

NDI also admits it has created, funded, and backed other organizations operating in Hong Kong toward achieving the US State Department's goals of subverting Beijing's control over the island.

It should be no surprise to readers then, to find out each and every "Occupy Central" leader is either directly linked to the US State Department, NED, and NDI, or involved in one of NDI's many schemes.

*"Occupy Central's" self-proclaimed leader, Benny Tai, is a law professor at the aforementioned University of Hong Kong and a regular collaborator with the NDI-funded CCPL. In 2006-2007 he was named as a board member – a position he has held until at least as recently as last year. In CCPL's 2011-2013 annual report , NDI is listed as having provided funding to the organization to.

There is also Martin Lee, founding chairman of Hong Kong's Democrat Party and another prominent figure who has come out in support of "Occupy Central." Just this year, Lee was in Washington meeting directly with US Vice President Joseph Biden, US Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, and even took part in an NED talk hosted specifically for him and his agenda of "democracy" in Hong Kong.* Lee even has a NED page dedicated to him after he was awarded in 1997 NED's "Democracy Award." With him in Washington was Anson Chan, another prominent figure currently supporting the ongoing unrest in Hong Kong's streets.

*If democracy is characterized by self-rule, than an "Occupy Central" movement in which every prominent figure is the benefactor of and beholden to foreign cash, support, and a foreign-driven agenda, has nothing at all to do with democracy. It does have, however, everything to do with abusing democracy to undermine Beijing's control over Hong Kong, and open the door to candidates that clearly serve foreign interests, not those of China, or even the people of Hong Kong.*

Exposing the insidious, disingenuous, foreign-driven nature of "Occupy Central" is important. It is also important to objectively examine each and every protest that springs up around the world. Superficiality cannot "link" one movement to another, one group to hidden special interests. Rather, one must adhere to due diligence in identifying and profiling the leaders, following the money, identifying their true motivations, and documenting their links to special interests within or beyond the borders of the nation the protests are taking place in.

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> China is so mixed up, especially now the country has the best highway roads, railway and air aviation system in the world, it moves billions of people every year efficiently and comfortably, here in Beijing everyone is from everywhere. it will be very hard to tell northerners and southerner apart in the future.



That's basically what I love about China's impressive and ever-growing transportation network: It encourages greater mobility and carries people from far and near into various parts of the country, and thus making the national unity stronger. Thus railway to XiZhang and XinJiang are of extreme importance. Thanks to this, and many other policies, China has an overall/umbrella culture and identity above the myriad of local identities.

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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong version of the 'color revolution' *

The "Occupy Central" movement in Hong Kong which paralyzes business, transportation and disrupts the normal life of the population is purported to be "promoting democracy." In fact, as the Bangkok-based geopolitical scientist Tony Cartalucci pointed out in a penetrating article on Scott. Net, it is essentially a U.S. plot "to turn the island into an epicenter of foreign-funded subversion with which to infect China's mainland more directly."

But that is a pipe dream. *China today is a far cry from its semi-colonial past, when it was impotent and subject to foreign domination. It stands firm and can handle any subversive scheme handily.*

The "movement" has been called the Hong Kong version of the U.S. engineered "color revolution." *The campaigners shout the familiar slogans and adopt familiar tactics seen across the globe as part of the U.S. political destabilization and regime change enterprise. It is part of America's vast ambitious global geopolitical reordering that started in 2011.*

Documents show the U.S. openly approves Hong Kong chaos, and it has created and admits it is funding "Occupy Central." It is U.S.-backed sedition.

Both U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and White House spokesman Josh Earnest openly aired their support of "Occupy Central." State Department affiliate National Democratic Institute has been working ever since 1997 when Hong Kong was returned to China, funding and organizing NGOs, and training activists who now lead the occupy campaign. T*he goal is to prevent Beijing from vetting candidates running for office in Hong Kong, so as to empower candidates they openly backed. In other words, they are fighting the Chinese government for control of Hong Kong.*

The U.S. also openly admitted that the National Endowment for Democracy funded the "Occupy Central" campaign.

The list of organizers makes plain what is going on:

A primary organizer is Benny Tai, a lecturer of law (does he really know law?) at the University of Hong Kong, who regularly attends forums funded and/or organized by U.S. State Department, National Endowment for Democracy (NED, U.S. major arm for subversion) and its subsidiaries, and the National Democratic Institute (NDI).

Cartalucci also mentioned Martin Lee, founding chairman of the Democratic Party of Hong Kong. But strangely, he left out Anson Chan, the former chief secretary of colonial Hong Kong, who is the real power behind the thrown. When the twosome went to Washington to plead U.S. backing of their "cause," I wrote a piece in this space on April 12, saying "It is logical for Martin Lee and Anson Chan, two of Hong Kong's prominent "democracy fighters" who have consistently fought the central government ever since Hong Kong's return to China, to go looking for help in Washington, which has a long record of interference in Hong Kong's affairs."

*Of course, there is Jimmy Lai Chi-Ying, owner of Next Media and Apple Daily, who gave generously to the "occupation" gang. He met with the neocon and former Deputy Defense Secretary and World Bank chief Paul Wolfowitz in his private yacht for five hours in late May. *What did they discuss (plot)? He also plotted with pro-Taiwan independence elements who support the occupy campaign. Lai even declared he is willing to go to prison or die for it. He knows he is violating the law.

There is also Civic Party chairwoman Audrey Eu Yuet-mee, and former *head of the Catholic diocese Cardinal* Joseph Zen Zi-kiun. *The entire gang has turned out in full force.*

*The "Occupy Central" movement is clearly illegal. *No government can tolerate long-term blocking of business center and main traffic routes. The Hong Kong authority has exercised maximum restraint, trying to persuade the students who are used by the "color revolutionaries" as fodder, to go back to school or go home.

Their cause is plainly illegal, unpopular and doomed to failure. It is like an ant trying to shake a tree, as the Chinese saying goes.

As the British Guardian columnist Martin Jaques wrote in a recent article: China is Hong Kong's future -- not its enemy.* Protesters cry democracy but most are driven by dislocation and resentment at mainlanders' success.*

He pointed out that for 155 years when Hong Kong was under British rule, all 28 governors were appointed by the British government. Hong Kong never enjoyed even a semblance of democracy. It was ruled from 6,000 miles away in London. The idea of any kind of democracy was first introduced by the Chinese government. Yet the "democracy campaigners" are protesting universal suffrage for the election of the chief executive in 2017!

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## LeveragedBuyout

TaiShang said:


> The article is a sort of late comer. Hence, irrelevant now. As for interfering in another state's internal affairs, that's an offence under international law. Besides, Japan has its own soft spots, thus, a consensus not to interfere in each other's political-social issues is possibly the best route to take for both.
> 
> Soft spots are easy to scratch and the region is full with soft spots. No body is spared.
> 
> 
> 
> Just as New Yorkers could not care less about Texan's complaints, right? But sovereignty and national territorial integrity is another issue, if it is what you try to imply.
> 
> I guess those articles should just test and challenge China's sovereignty over Hong Kong to see China's resolve and the Chinese people's reaction.
> 
> This attempt to paint HK as somehow separate from the rest of China is no less lame than Texan or Californian independence movements.
> 
> Other than this, certainly, HK's economic woes is a concern for their on residents, local government and Beijing. It is not by accident that Beijing subsidizes HK for eternity. Because Beijing has sole autonomy and thus responsibility.
> 
> 
> 
> This was a big blunder on part of the string holders. Some heads should roll over the State Department and a bunch of CIA extensions here and there.
> 
> I see one big problem with the US handling its foreign diplomacy. This has been the case with rightist-sentimentalist Bush and centrist-sentimentalist Obama: The US has recently been too in a rush, hasty to reveal its true color all at once -- all the cards it has, so to speak. There is no strategic silence, or a monetary step-back to see the bigger picture, to calculate costs and benefits, to let the early hot-headedness pass... Led by Biden, they simply jump into every occasion and speak their mind, which allows the opponent to develop counter-strategies early on.
> 
> I guess US has a serious leadership problem and I guess your Constitution allows you to overthrow a government by force when it turns tyrannical. I consider this plundering of foreign legitimacy and influence an extension of tyranny. Deal with it, US people. Let's see you will be greeted with open arms or riot police.



Didn't you live and work in the US at some point? I thought you knew better. The reason why I am so amused at the conspiracy theories about American manipulation is because there is no such thing as long-term thinking in US foreign policy, and there is no such thing as strategic thinking in US foreign policy. US foreign policy is values-based and reactionary, so all of the Russian and Chinese talk of deep manipulation is simple projection. I guess you don't understand us as well as I thought.

By the way, it is not the Constitution that calls for revolution in the face of tyranny, but the superior Declaration of Independence that provides legitimacy for such actions. The way we're going, I no longer see such an outcome outside the realm of possibility.

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## Aepsilons

TaiShang said:


> *Documents show US openly approves HK chaos*
> 
> According to a recent article by MintPress News based in the United States, behind the so-called "Occupy Central" protests, which masquerade as a "pro-democracy" movement seeking "universal suffrage" and "full democracy," is a deep and insidious network of foreign financial, political, and media support. Prominent among them is the US State Department and its National Endowment for Democracy (NED) as well as NED's subsidiary, the National Democratic Institute (NDI).
> 
> To push this agenda – which essentially is to prevent Beijing from vetting candidates running for office in Hong Kong, thus opening the door to politicians openly backed, funded, and directed by the US State Department – NDI lists an array of ongoing meddling it is carrying out on the island.
> 
> Since 1997, NDI has conducted a series of missions to Hong Kong to consider the development of Hong Kong's "post-reversion" election framework, the status of autonomy, rule of law and civil liberties under Chinese sovereignty.
> 
> It also claims: In 2005, NDI initiated a six-month young political leaders program focused on training a group of rising party and political group members in political communications skills.
> 
> NDI also admits it has created, funded, and backed other organizations operating in Hong Kong toward achieving the US State Department's goals of subverting Beijing's control over the island.
> 
> It should be no surprise to readers then, to find out each and every "Occupy Central" leader is either directly linked to the US State Department, NED, and NDI, or involved in one of NDI's many schemes.
> 
> *"Occupy Central's" self-proclaimed leader, Benny Tai, is a law professor at the aforementioned University of Hong Kong and a regular collaborator with the NDI-funded CCPL. In 2006-2007 he was named as a board member – a position he has held until at least as recently as last year. In CCPL's 2011-2013 annual report , NDI is listed as having provided funding to the organization to.
> 
> There is also Martin Lee, founding chairman of Hong Kong's Democrat Party and another prominent figure who has come out in support of "Occupy Central." Just this year, Lee was in Washington meeting directly with US Vice President Joseph Biden, US Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, and even took part in an NED talk hosted specifically for him and his agenda of "democracy" in Hong Kong.* Lee even has a NED page dedicated to him after he was awarded in 1997 NED's "Democracy Award." With him in Washington was Anson Chan, another prominent figure currently supporting the ongoing unrest in Hong Kong's streets.
> 
> *If democracy is characterized by self-rule, than an "Occupy Central" movement in which every prominent figure is the benefactor of and beholden to foreign cash, support, and a foreign-driven agenda, has nothing at all to do with democracy. It does have, however, everything to do with abusing democracy to undermine Beijing's control over Hong Kong, and open the door to candidates that clearly serve foreign interests, not those of China, or even the people of Hong Kong.*
> 
> Exposing the insidious, disingenuous, foreign-driven nature of "Occupy Central" is important. It is also important to objectively examine each and every protest that springs up around the world. Superficiality cannot "link" one movement to another, one group to hidden special interests. Rather, one must adhere to due diligence in identifying and profiling the leaders, following the money, identifying their true motivations, and documenting their links to special interests within or beyond the borders of the nation the protests are taking place in.



This shows some kind of indirect link, if there is even any. Tho i can understand why some Chinese would think that there is an American hand behind these protests.


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## bolo

Beidou2020 said:


> If they're going to have a protest, at least make it last for 2 freaking weeks.
> This bunch of losers couldn't even last that long
> 
> This 'protest movement' has to go down as the worst 'protest movement' EVER!
> 
> CPC is laughing.
> It turned ordinary HK people against this insignificant groups of hooligans big time.
> 
> CPC will still vet every future leader of Hong Kong.
> 
> Their 15 seconds of fame is up. Considering it didn't even last 2 weeks, I think its about 5 seconds of fame.


Plus there is a project that need to be handed in, due next week. 
Some students did not want to go protest but went due to peer pressure. At least they had ten minutes of fame. Now they should make these students clean up the mess.



Europa said:


> may be that was why japan targeted them first.
> whatever, you said it right, these hk protesters don't have the guts to pick up arms like ukranians


It's not that. The HK students are smarter in the sense that picking up arms (if they can get it) means death. Most of these students were ranting frustrations because HK is no longer a number one financial powerhouse of China.

Now they come to their senses that dying for a lost cause is just plain stupid. HK Chinese after this shenanigan will be more united with mainland.

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## William Hung

Japan don't want to openly support the HK Occupy movement because of Okinawa. 

Japan don't want to openly condemn the HK Occupy movement because of the fear of offending the US. 

Japan don't want to stay completely silent because of its ego. 

Solution: make a halfassed statement late into the game when they know the show is about to be over.

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## Huan

Hmmm from this, I get the impression that Japan has too strong of an economic connection to Hong Kong. Beijing should strengthen its economic grip on Hong Kong somehow so it won't feel more and more separated from mainland China by 2047.


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## cirr

Nihonjin1051 said:


> This shows some kind of indirect link, if there is even any. Tho i can understand why some Chinese would think that there is an American hand behind these protests.



There is an American hand behind every trouble in the world。

As a matter of fact，the US has become THE trouble maker in the world。

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## terranMarine

It's time to scrap the "Mainlanders" terminology

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## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> There is an American hand behind every trouble in the world。



Its always easy for nations to point some kind of blame on the pre-eminent power. Please know that there is no single nation that is devoid of 'foreign' entanglements.



Huan said:


> Hmmm from this, I get the impression that Japan has too strong of an economic connection to Hong Kong.



It is not just Japan, my friend, in fact its every single world power that has vested interests in the Asia-Pacific. Afterall, Hong Kong serves as the conduit to the greater China Market. Their transparent market laws favors FDI operations there, and until China's Corporate Law becomes readily transparent, Hong Kong will remain significant. Hong Kong will remain the financial center of the Orient.

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## Brainsucker

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I hope they could have some gut like those maidan neo-nazis from Ukraine to start some bloodshed, but too bad these people were descended from the pussy KMT and the slaves colonized under the UK.
> 
> Not all South Chinese are born weakling, since Mao and his early CPC guerilla fighters were all South Chinese from Hunan.
> 
> The Cantonese army was also known as the brave fighters in the Chinese history, but people from HK has generally a weak mind though, same for people from Shanghai.



Wow, congrat, you just call your fellow country men as weakling. To hear that from somebody who call themselves as a patriot. This is the funniest comment I ever hear. Don't you ever realize that you just denouncing your own people in the front of an international community? Plus, southerner won't like your post. So that comment is basically can become a seed of friction. Well, congrat for that. Hopefully you can be more clever when commenting people. It is your country that people are seeing. lol

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## cirr

Come on，surely not so soon？

I want to see a prolonged movement which ends up relegating HK into a third-rate Chinese city。


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## Huan

cirr said:


> Come on，surely not so soon？
> 
> I want to see a prolonged movement which ends up relegating HK into a third-rate Chinese city。


And then they will come begging to Beijing for a bailout.


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## bolo

cirr said:


> There is an American hand behind every trouble in the world。
> 
> As a matter of fact，the US has become THE trouble maker in the world。


Yup, whenever there's trouble G.I Joe is there--G.I Joe!


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## terranMarine

Shanghai rising to more prominence should this protest prolong, either way it's a win win situation


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## cirr

Huan said:


> And then they will come begging to Beijing for a bailout.



Time to track down and cut down British、American and Japanese business/commercial interests and influence in Hong Kong。

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## TaiShang

LeveragedBuyout said:


> US foreign policy is values-based and reactionary, so all of the Russian and Chinese talk of deep manipulation is simple projection.



It has become reactionary and rigid, thus value-based. But these values are not necessarily universal or exceptional. They are just values, or ideologies, that the leadership happens to believe strongly. Due to that self-centric and exceptionalist ideology, the US attempts to spread these so-called "universal" values by force, by intimidation, or by undercover activity.

One or the other may work in certain places such as Libya. But, in China, none of them would work. And with this "strategic hollowness" and "big mouthness" of the US leadership, the remaining advantages (whatever they are) are lost. 



LeveragedBuyout said:


> The way we're going, I no longer see such an outcome outside the realm of possibility.



Go for it. And then we will talk about regime survival reflection and riot police/national guards and whatever.


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## cirr

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Its always easy for nations to point some kind of blame on the pre-eminent power. Please know that there is no single nation that is devoid of 'foreign' entanglements.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not just Japan, my friend, in fact its every single world power that has vested interests in the Asia-Pacific. Afterall, Hong Kong serves as the conduit to the greater China Market. Their transparent market laws favors FDI operations there, and until China's Corporate Law becomes readily transparent, Hong Kong will remain significant. Hong Kong will remain the financial center of the Orient.



I am NOT complaining。

I want the US keep doing what it has been for the past 25 years，for at least the next 50 years。

PS Id1ots never learn and think they can go at it for eternity.

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## Aepsilons

bolo said:


> Yup, whenever there's trouble G.I Joe is there--G.I Joe!





cirr said:


> I am NOT complaining。
> 
> I want the US keep doing what it has been for the past 25 years，for at least the next 50 years。
> 
> PS Id1ots never learn and think they can go at it for eternity.



Remember the concept of contrary forces. For every ying, there will be a yang.

In regards to your post, Team G.I Joe responds to Team Cobra Command.

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## TaiShang

That is a moral, psychological and ideological victory for the entire China, including Taiwan.

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## William Hung

cirr said:


> Time to track down and cut down British、American and Japanese business/commercial interests and influence in Hong Kong。



You should be asking, why are Japan and western countries open to foreign interest group and their internal politics are still relatively stable. On the other hand, why do you think your country is forced to cut down and close the doors for these foreign group because of the fear of internal instability?

If you can't solve this puzzle, your mind is too small.


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## Kolaps

@Beidou2020

If you think HK pro-democracy movement is just a protest like this, then you are BIG wrong!

It's much bigger and much annoying than what you think!



TaiShang said:


> That is a moral, psychological and ideological victory for the entire China, including Taiwan.



Sadly, only temporarily.



Black Flag said:


> You should be asking, why are Japan and western countries open to foreign interest group and their internal politics are still relatively stable. On the other hand, why do you think your country is forced to cut down and close the doors for these foreign group because of the fear of internal instability?
> 
> If you can't solve this puzzle, your mind is too small.



Stable of what?

May be that because China is the good guy here.


If it's the pro-China ruling party who run Japan, I don't think Japan is such stable country. As pro-Christian/US created by CIA, will make noises everyday and attempt for coup.


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## TaiShang

cirr said:


> I am NOT complaining。
> 
> I want the US keep doing what it has been for the past 25 years，for at least the next 50 years。
> 
> PS Id1ots never learn and think they can go at it for eternity.



Indeed. Just as as a filthy, inefficient and corrupt democracy India does a favor to China, as a reckless and imperial superpower, the US does a favor to China -- so that China would not become either.


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## Kolaps

US is going to punish the traitorous Japan!!!

The true face of EVIL Japan revealed.


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## terranMarine

bolo said:


> Yup, whenever there's trouble G.I Joe is there--G.I Joe!


, cracking me up

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## LeveragedBuyout

TaiShang said:


> It has become reactionary and rigid, thus value-based. But these values are not necessarily universal or exceptional. They are just values, or ideologies, that the leadership happens to believe strongly. Due to that self-centric and exceptionalist ideology, the US attempts to spread these so-called "universal" values by force, by intimidation, or by undercover activity.
> 
> One or the other may work in certain places such as Libya. But, in China, none of them would work. And with this "strategic hollowness" and "big mouthness" of the US leadership, the remaining advantages (whatever they are) are lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Go for it. And then we will talk about regime survival reflection and riot police/national guards and whatever.




The US hasn't engaged in pure realpolitik since before Woodrow Wilson, so it's unclear what you mean by "it has become reactionary"--for all intents and purposes, it always has been reactionary in the modern age. Woodrow Wilson came up with a nice justification for the US to assert itself globally, but the "values system" that under-girds the American order has always been more symbolic than cause for action. Otherwise, how could we deal with the likes of Saudi Arabia? How could we have such important economic ties to the likes of China? Our value system would reject that if it had primacy.

As far as spreading our values, we are hardly unique in that regard. Remember "making the world safe for Communism"? Can you say that Communism was not spread by force, intimidation, or undercover activity? For that matter, does China not assert itself in Asia through force, intimidation, and undercover activity?

I never understood the fixed conception that the US engages other countries militarily in order to spread democracy. It wasn't true in South Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Democracy is a hoped-for side effect of our military action, but for the most part, our military action is a reaction to a perceived anti-American move (the spread of Communism, threatening our allies and energy supplies, attack on our homeland, etc.) All the people who now claim that the US objective in Afghanistan and Iraq was the spread of democracy must have been born after 2001. All of the people who claim that the "Arab Spring" was actually a US attempt to spread democracy have no understanding of how the modern Middle East was created. The US prefers democracies, but it's clear that we also find ourselves allied with totalitarian regimes from time to time.

Regarding revolution in the US, I can't say if or when it might happen, but the consolidation of power in the executive branch started from the moment the US was formed. I recommend "Crisis and Command: A History of Executive Power from George Washington to the Present" by John Yoo for a better understanding of this transition. (Warning: it's a bit dry). The US has had to blatantly ignore its founding documents to justify its current system (e.g. Madison v. Marbury, the original sin), and this contradiction cannot be sustained forever. Either the founding documents will be rejected (revolution), or the illegitimate exercise of power will be rejected (revolution). I'm not talking about the "Occupy" movement, which was a dismal failure of the left-wing to introduce socialism into the mainstream, but rather the tension between the Federal Government and the States, and the rights of the citizens in the face of government oppression. 

Unlike in China, the parties and the system of government are not sacred, because the source of legitimacy is the people, not the ruling party. I don't want to derail the thread any further, but that's the main similarity (if there is one) between the HK protests and the problems in the US. Both have a Basic Law/Constitution that provides for certain rights, but those rights are overridden by an authoritarian government. Other than that, HK is nothing like the US, since the HK protestors are trying to claim rights that they've never had before, while we on the right in the US want to reclaim the rights we had, which have been taken from us.

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## bolo

terranMarine said:


> , cracking me up


You get it. Cirr did not get it.


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## William Hung

Kolaps said:


> @Beidou2020
> Stable of what?
> 
> May be that because China is the good guy here.
> 
> 
> If it's the pro-China ruling party who run Japan, I don't think Japan is such stable country. As pro-Christian/US created by CIA, will make noises everyday and attempt for coup.



How many time does western countries or Japan suffered a coup or civil war in recent history (30-40 years)?

At the same time, how many countries like the recent middle eastern countries like Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Thailand, various central American countries suffered protest, political unrest and conflict?

Foreign or local interest group like anticapitalist group, anti-free trade group, various religious group, various political group are relatively tolerated in western countries, but they still have been more stable than the countries mentioned?

Why some other countries mentioned above can be easily influenced?

Why some Chinese members here fear that political instability can occur in the future?

Their solution is to shut down all foreign interest group. But why Japan and western countries don't need this solution?

That is the puzzle.


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## TaiShang

Black Flag said:


> You should be asking, why are Japan and western countries open to these foreign interest group and their internal politics are still relatively stable. On the other hand, why do you think your country is forced to cut down and close the doors for these foreign group because of the fear of internal instability?



I know this question is not directed at me. But still it is an interesting question, which refers to the core of the all issues: The question of world view or ideology.

You see, the West is more or less one and the same (a unified bloc) and Japan is firmly attached to that system of values. Good or bad, it is their decision. The West cannot be a threat to Japan so long as Japan remains a loyal attachment.

But you know, the West does not represent the "international" or the "universal." They just represent a certain portion of humanity and world's geography. The values they boast about may or may not be embraced by the rest.

And news for you, China is not the West. It is a system of values by itself; a separate and distinct civilization. As a unified ideological bloc, the West, still having the technological and military upper hand, attempts to destabilize China by using various open an clandestine methods. It is a matter of willingness and capability and the West seems to have the former although its capability, albeit strong, is weakening. 

It is only natural that the West, seeing China as a rival, will want to harm it. China, as the strongest developing nation, will develop reflections to thwart it. West hates China because China is China; not a copycat imitator of the Western value system. Hence there is an underlying war of systems, ideologies, models. 

China is a developing nation, albeit a strong one, that is going through monumental drastic changes day and night as people's life is being improved and they are exposed to new stuff. 

This is a delicate moment for China as it requires that the pace of development would not be compromised in any way. This is not necessarily because of a fear of internal instability, but because China does not want distraction. 

Every system has some check in order to preserve system integrity, and, especially in the stage of fast development and dramatic change, excessive external influence might be destabilizing. This is only momentary, though. Once China achieves a developed status, builds its own strong national culture and entertainment industry, control the world opinion through an ever-penetrating international media industry, fully develops and theorizes its own indigenous political ideology as an alternative model, then China will go out compete the other alternative systems in all good will.

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## terranMarine

holy sh!t


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## powastick

Black Flag said:


> How many time does western countries or Japan suffered a coup or civil war in recent history (30-40 years)?
> 
> At the same time, how many countries like the recent middle eastern countries like Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Thailand, various central American countries suffered protest, political unrest and conflict?
> 
> Foreign or local interest group like anticapitalist group, anti-free trade group, various religious group, various political group are relatively tolerated in western countries, but they still have been more stable than the countries mentioned?
> 
> Why some other countries mentioned above can be easily influenced?
> 
> Why some Chinese members here fear that political instability can occur in the future?
> 
> Their solution is to shut down all foreign interest group. But why Japan and western countries don't need this solution?
> 
> That is the puzzle.



Yeah, Saddam Hussien have Weapon of Mass Destruction and Al-Queda.


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## cirr

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Remember the concept of contrary forces. For every ying, there will be a yang.
> 
> In regards to your post, Team G.I Joe responds to Team Cobra Command.



I have no issue with US spending north of 100 million USD a day fighting the ISIS while we use the same money for infrastructure, education and healthcare.

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## TaiShang

LeveragedBuyout said:


> The US hasn't engaged in pure realpolitik since before Woodrow Wilson, so it's unclear what you mean by "it has become reactionary"--for all intents and purposes, it always has been reactionary in the modern age. Woodrow Wilson came up with a nice justification for the US to assert itself globally, but the "values system" that under-girds the American order has always been more symbolic than cause for action. Otherwise, how could we deal with the likes of Saudi Arabia? How could we have such important economic ties to the likes of China? Our value system would reject that if it had primacy.



That's why I would say it has become reactionary. The US would be able to better deal with a multitude of parties at the same time without letting reactionary values getting in between. Hence the relationship with KSA. But, today's foreign policy that is being plundered is the by product of past decision. There is this squandering of national power.

China, on the other hand, can do business with everybody regardless. It can work with Iran and the US at the same buy. Or Sudan and Saudi Arabia. It does not matter. The US has been too much involved in this arbitrary "values" too much recently. Maybe it is because this now has the only tangible that it may utilize to run a foreign policy.



LeveragedBuyout said:


> For that matter, does China not assert itself in Asia through force, intimidation, and undercover activity?



No it does not. China is basically engaged in a checkbook diplomacy (maybe except Pakistan), that is, putting business first and allowing deep political relations to develop later. 



LeveragedBuyout said:


> Unlike in China, the parties and the system of government are not sacred, because the source of legitimacy is the people, not the ruling party.



Interesting. Because I see the US regime to be more rigid and devoid of change, hence it is sacred. It is sacred in a sense that it rides on a whole narrative of abstract values that is taken for granted, universal and exceptional. On the other, China is an ever evolving political organism. This is the core of the Chinese model, as a matter of fact, although it is rather sensitive toward being interfered in by irrelevant outside forces. In a sense it is neither capitalist nor communist; labeling and cult-building do not work in China (unlike in the US where a cult of regime is falsely built) since it is ever-evolving. It is very hard to theorize like some did with liberalism or realism. 

Anyway, these are my observations/theorizations.

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## William Hung

TaiShang said:


> I know this question is not directed at me. But still it is an interesting question, which refers to the core of the all issues: The question of world view or ideology.
> 
> You see, the West is more or less one and the same (a unified bloc) and Japan is firmly attached to that system of values. Good or bad, it is their decision. The West cannot be a threat to Japan so long as Japan remains a loyal attachment.
> 
> But you know, the West does not represent the "international" or the "universal." They just represent a certain portion of humanity and world's geography. The values they boast about may or may not be embraced by the rest.
> 
> And news for you, China is not the West. It is a system of values by itself; a separate and distinct civilization. As a unified ideological bloc, the West, still having the technological and military upper hand, attempts to destabilize China by using various open an clandestine methods. It is a matter of willingness and capability and the West seems to have the former although its capability, albeit strong, is weakening.
> 
> It is only natural that the West, seeing China as a rival, will want to harm it. China, as the strongest developing nation, will develop reflections to thwart it. West hates China because China is China; not a copycat imitator of the Western value system. Hence there is an underlying war of systems, ideologies, models.
> 
> China is a developing nation, albeit a strong one, that is going through monumental drastic changes day and night as people's life is being improved and they are exposed to new stuff.
> 
> This is a delicate moment for China as it requires that the pace of development would not be compromised in any way. This is not necessarily because of a fear of internal instability, but because China does not want distraction.
> 
> Every system has some check in order to preserve system integrity, and, especially in the stage of fast development and dramatic change, excessive external influence might be destabilizing. This is only momentary, though. Once China achieves a developed status, builds its own strong national culture and entertainment industry, control the world opinion through an ever-penetrating international media industry, fully develops and theorizes its own indigenous political ideology as an alternative model, then China will go out compete the other alternative systems in all good will.



Good points, but I think you've missed my previous posts just above yours. I'll make two points to question your reply. 

1. Is it really just all about worldview/political ideology? In some countries I mentioned above, like Thailand, they had the same democracy-capitalist model, but still suffered various unrest and conflict recently. 

2. Is possessing technology and military power the main factor why western countries can have influence on others? All of the conflicts that happened to the countries I mentioned, did not start out with superiority of technology or military power. Even in this recent unrest in HK, it wasn't triggered by military involvement. It seems to have all been started from ideas in human minds.

So my question to you now, why the west don't have to worry much about this as some other countries does? This is the puzzle. 

Sure they have some protests and riots, and sure they have programs like NSA. But they are relatively more stable than other countries.


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## Chinese-Dragon

LeveragedBuyout said:


> As far as the cause itself, I can't believe how inept the protestors were. Even if the candidates for chief executive were selected by Beijing, it would still be an incremental step towards democracy. The CCP has shown time and again that it prefers gradual, cautious moves, and when it is resisted, it has no choice but to strike back with an iron fist if it doesn't want to invite yet more protest. The HK protestors should have worked within these constraints for gradual change; now, at best, they will get nothing, and at worst, jail and a rollback of the reforms already in place.



You echo my sentiments exactly.

Reformists within the system already have such a hard time trying to push through change, when people start behaving badly and rioting it just gives the central government no other choice but to move backwards into safety.

These kinds of things will just be a setback to reforms.

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## FairAndUnbiased

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not all South Chinese are born weakling, since Mao and his early CPC guerilla fighters were all South Chinese from Hunan.



Hunan is different. It was one of the original Warring Kingdoms, the State of Chu, along with Hubei and parts of Jiangxi, so it is part of the original Han bloodline of the central plains.


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## bobsm

I'm guessing this has something to do with it.

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## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> I have no issue with US spending north of 100 million USD a day fighting the ISIS while we use the same money for infrastructure, education and healthcare.



China still needs development, remember that it is still a developing nation, and not in par with the post industrial states, yet. So it makes sense for China to emphasize regional infrastructure projects. Also, the United States does not have to worry about a population of 1.3 billion people.

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## Kolaps

Black Flag said:


> How many time does western countries or Japan suffered a coup or civil war in recent history (30-40 years)?
> 
> At the same time, how many countries like the recent middle eastern countries like Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Thailand, various central American countries suffered protest, political unrest and conflict?
> 
> Foreign or local interest group like anticapitalist group, anti-free trade group, various religious group, various political group are relatively tolerated in western countries, but they still have been more stable than the countries mentioned?
> 
> Why some other countries mentioned above can be easily influenced?
> 
> Why some Chinese members here fear that political instability can occur in the future?
> 
> Their solution is to shut down all foreign interest group. But why Japan and western countries don't need this solution?
> 
> That is the puzzle.



Why NED exist in the first place?

Many countries are very stable because most countries don't want to cross other country sovereignty.

As well as, make a noise for US installed puppet government that can lead into further instability and no way out.




> Why some Chinese members here fear that political instability can occur in the future?



Western countries cried like a baby during Credit Crunch and economy recession potential... 

Anyway, they finally solved the problem by export it to third world countries. which is the effect even worse than Credit Crunch there. Some country economy lost 20% of their GDP, living standard fall, it's a recession practically.

This is just a very small set back compare with political instability, imagine the more damage and complication in political instability.

I think any sane people don't want political instability.

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## TaiShang

@Black Flag , thank for engaging in constructive dialogue. Let me try to respond to your very fundamental question, although other members such as @Raphael , @Chinese-Dragon , @xunzi , @Edison Chen , @tranquilium , @terranMarine and many others may have better and more to the point responses.



Black Flag said:


> 1. Is it really just all about worldview/political ideology? In some countries I mentioned above, like Thailand, they had the same democracy-capitalist model, but still suffered various unrest and conflict recently.



I guess, at the core, it is all about values or ideologies, that is, ways in which we make sense of the world as a whole.

My analysis is basically at nation-state level. At the national/local level, there must be other factors involved. Hence, Thailand might be such a case. That's a whole different issue, but, the underlying point is that different levels of analyses may have different variables involved.



Black Flag said:


> 2. Is possessing technology and military power the main factor why western countries can have influence on others? All of the conflicts that happened to the countries I mentioned, did not start out with superiority of technology or military power. Even in this recent unrest in HK, it wasn't triggered by military involvement. It seems to have all been started from ideas in human minds.



Again, local (national) conflicts, even though we consider them to be purely national with no negative external feedback, are different animals. We cannot analyze national and international politics as if they were similar entities.

HK issue, as it is today, is a local problem (mostly economic), but, it is somehow blown out of its local context and internationalized. That is why we may analyze HK issue at the level of international. As you see, China often relegated the issue as a domestic and economic problem, not an international one.



Black Flag said:


> So my question to you now, why the west don't have to worry much about this as some other countries does? This is the puzzle.



It is all about economics and state control, in my view. Economics ensures a strong middle class that traditionally favors the status quo (as we see how the middle class became furious in HK protests) and control (often through the mainstream media that is friendly with the established/ruling elites. Besides, they are subject to little foreign engagement since they have strong internal security and intelligence apparatus and also they can still still deliver prosperity for the larger portion of their population.

Nevertheless, with enough manpower, money, dedication and time, even these stable Western countries might be dragged into some sort of turmoil since they have so many social ills that one can in time take advantage of.

Besides, the West has been telling the same narrative and has already built theories on its political and economic regime. They have the advantage of first comers. They built a cult out of their regime. They worship the fundamentals while criticize the details. They are smart. But we are not stupid, either.

Over time, China will also develop its own theory about national governance and a mainstream corporate media will take form and remain sympathetic with the regime and narrate the stories to the general population. There will be criticism, but, the fundamentals will always be cherished, immortalized, propagandized, and sanctified -- just as how the US regime's basic parameters are held in esteem.

Other countries, for one reason or another, are not as much developed as the West+Japan. Thus they lack neither money nor brain power to build a national regime theory and promote it through state-friendly international corporate media.

China has put itself on the right track and built a genuine governance model, albeit still developing. All it needs is time and favorable international conditions. We know it. We know the West knows it. And the West knows we know the West knows it. You see? The game is actually not that much clandestine. As I see it, what China needs next is some political philosophers to construct a Chinese political theory based on contemporary historical conditions and national culture.

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## zeronet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The southernized Chinese are generally submissive to the western hegemony, they prefer to talk about the democracy/freedom/human right over the sovereignty/unification/national interest. And they don't give a rat a$$ about North China.
> 
> The northernized Chinese only care about China's future prosperity, and we do care the stability in North China, because we know only a stable North China will bring a stable unified China. Only with that, the South China could benefit its economic development from this stability.


don't know what to say, seems that you divide your own people into two conflicting groups, for a supporter of china like you is this a little bit confusing to others?

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> As opposed to the repulsive Indian regime where they can't even provide basic toilets for their citizens?
> 
> The entire country of India is kept together through brute military force. There are dozens of separatist groups in India seeking to gain freedom from the monstrosity that is the Indian regime. Tamils, Sikhs, Assam, Sikkim, Kashmiris, etc
> 
> India is a backward country precisely due to the failure of the Indian political system. This is why China is succeeding and India is a total failure where young children starve to death and half the population is illiterate which results in the rape epidemic you have in India.
> 
> Indian regime is so utterly corrupt that people can't even properly estimate the amount of looting going on in India. Even the estimates are severely underestimated.
> 
> No food to eat, no toilets, full of diseases, illiterate population, no infrastructure, rape epidemic, overpopulation, etc.
> That is the achievement of the utterly failed poetical system of India.
> The Indian regime remains a complete monstrosity. A barbaric and corrupt regime that can't even give the most basic needs for its citizens.
> What a truly vulgar and repulsive regime.
> UGH!



Very well put, sir!

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## bolo

Europa said:


> *indians in hong kong demanding*
> 
> View attachment 114056



The right to defecate in public places.

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## William Hung

@TaiShang, my original reply was censored and awaiting moderation, wasted my time. Here I try again....



TaiShang said:


> I guess, at the core, it is all about values or ideologies, that is, ways in which we make sense of the world as a whole......
> 
> My analysis is basically at nation-state level. At the national/local level, there must be other factors involved.......
> 
> HK issue, as it is today, is a local problem (mostly economic), but, it is somehow blown out of its local context and internationalized. That is why we may analyze HK issue at the level of international. As you see, China often relegated the issue as a domestic and economic problem, not an international one.......
> 
> It is all about economics and state control, in my view........



I disagree with some of these. I don't think it has much to do with economics, state control, political ideology, etc. On the surface, it may appear so... but there is something else on the deeper level. If you only focus on issue like economy and politics, you won't solve the puzzle I've given.

You're studying political philosophy? heard of Girard's Mimetic theory? I don't agree with everything he said, but it's a good start imo:

Imitatio: A Very Brief Introduction



> *A Very Brief Introduction*
> View attachment 115392
> 
> René Girard
> René Girard is recognized worldwide for his theory of human behavior and human culture. In 2005 he was inducted into the Académie française, and in 2008 he received the Modern Language Association's award for Lifetime Scholarly Achievement. He is Professor Emeritus at Stanford University.
> 
> But back more than 50 years ago, René Girard started teaching French literature because he needed a job. He hadn't even read many of the books he was assigned to teach. Then, as he studied the classic novels of Stendhal and Proust with a fresh mind, staying one step ahead of his students, he was struck by a series of similarities from novel to novel. Unbound by any narrow research agenda, Girard discovered a simple but powerful pattern that had eluded sophisticated critics before him: imitation is the fundamental mechanism of human behavior.
> 
> Stories thrive on conflict between characters. By reading the great writers against the grain of conventional wisdom, Girard realized that people don't fight over their differences. They fight because they are the same, and they want the same things. Not because they need the same things (food, ***, scarce material goods), but because they want what will earn others' envy. Humans, with a planning intelligence that sets them apart from all other animals, are free to choose. With freedom comes risk and uncertainty: humans don't know in advance what to choose, so they look to others for cues. People can desire anything, as long as other people seem to desire it, too: that is the meaning of Girard's concept of "mimetic desire." Since people tend toward the same objects of desire, jealousy and rivalry are inevitable sources of social tension -- and perfect themes for the great novelists.
> 
> After his successful writings on modern literature, curious to find out how well his "mimetic theory" of imitative behavior might explain the human past, Girard studied anthropology and myths from around the world. He was struck by another series of similarities: myth after myth told a story of collective violence. Only one man can be king, the most enviable individual, but everyone can share in the persecution of a victim. Societies unify themselves by focusing their imitative desires on the destruction of a scapegoat. Girard hypothesized that the violent persecution of scapegoats is at the origin of the ubiquitous human institution of ritual sacrifice, the foundation of archaic religions.
> 
> Girard then turned to the relationship between rituals of sacrifice and the many acts of violence recorded in the founding documents of the religions of the modern West (including the secular religion known as the Enlightenment): the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Gospels. Girard interpreted the Bible as a gradual revelation of the injustice of human violence. The culmination, Jesus's crucifixion, is unprecedented not because it pays a debt humans owe to God, but because it reveals the truth of all sacrifice: the victim of a mob is always innocent, and collective violence is unjust.
> 
> An outsider in every field, René Girard has changed scholars' thinking in literature, anthropology, and religion. But you don't have to be a scholar or an insider of mimetic theory to understand it. Imitation is constant, scapegoating is an ever-present temptation, and violence is wrong. These simple insights have unlocked the meaning of modern novels, ancient myths, religious traditions, and the behavior of each and every one of us in our daily lives.
> 
> Today a global community of scholars is building on Girard's work to better understand our world. Imitatio is a non-profit foundation devoted to aiding progress in this ongoing development and critique of René Girard's mimetic theory. Here at the Imitatio web site, you can read Girard's writings, peruse scholars' work, learn about upcoming events and watch video from past events. Sign up for our email newsletter to stay current with news, events, publications, and discussions in mimetic theory from São Paulo to Paris, Tokyo to San Francisco.





TaiShang said:


> As I see it, what China needs next is some political philosophers to construct a Chinese political theory based on contemporary historical conditions and national culture.



You almost got it. But not just political philosophy and theory, they must try to understand humans and the human condition as well, I. e. the humanities and arts.

This is why I think the Soviet didn't last like the west did. The soviets put too much effort on politics, economics and technology while neglecting the study of humans. The West was way superior in this respect.


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## ChineseTiger1986

zeronet said:


> don't know what to say, seems that you divide your own people into two conflicting groups, for a supporter of china like you is this a little bit confusing to others?



southernized = liberal
northernized = conservative

I didn't bash South Chinese, since I am a South Chinese by myself.

I did bash those liberal Chinese, and tell me why I have to appease those liberals who hate its own motherland?

Actually, many North Chinese are also liberal, and they are just as disgusting as those anti-China liberals from Taiwan and HK. Liu Xiaobo is just a prime example.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Black Flag said:


> The soviets put too much effort on politics, economics and technology while neglecting the study of humans. The West was way superior in this respect.



Exactly right.

Those who control nature, have the physical power to control humanity - after all, if you can tame the forces of weather, the atom, and outer space, controlling a mere person is nothing, right? But that's wrong - taming a human is different, because the human is the one who carries out such acts of controlling nature.

Controlling people's brains - controlling how they think, what their values are, how they interface with society - that is the crucial key to a stable society. For the ruling class, this is even better than having everyone be robots - you need to program robots. Media, if successful, is like robots programming themselves exactly the way you want.

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## ChineseTiger1986

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Hunan is different. It was one of the original Warring Kingdoms, the State of Chu, along with Hubei and parts of Jiangxi, so it is part of the original Han bloodline of the central plains.



Hunan also has a lot of mixture with the southern aborigines, especially its southern part is heavily mixed with Cantonese.

Mao's mother also looks very southern, and she can easily pass as a Cantonese woman, only his father looks northern though.







Mao in his youth also looks very southern, similar to some Cantonese.

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## BoQ77

VCP also fear about the same trend. But we love it.
Vietnam congress is studying the chance to let the protest right release.


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## BoQ77

If HKer doesn't want, there's not any protest.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Brainsucker said:


> Wow, congrat, you just call your fellow country men as weakling. To hear that from somebody who call themselves as a patriot. This is the funniest comment I ever hear. Don't you ever realize that you just denouncing your own people in the front of an international community? Plus, southerner won't like your post. So that comment is basically can become a seed of friction. Well, congrat for that. Hopefully you can be more clever when commenting people. It is your country that people are seeing. lol



I say the people from HK and Shanghai are generally weak minded.

I am from Shanghai by myself, but sadly most men in my hometown are effeminated, this is the truth.

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## BoQ77

The movement is legal. Or the govt is powerless. or both


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## FairAndUnbiased

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Hunan also has a lot of mixture with the southern aborigines, especially its southern part is heavily mixed with Cantonese.



However those are later on, after the Qin Dynasty, and even then, most of Hunan is closely related to Hubei, which is mostly 中原 especially near 麻城，襄阳，etc.


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## ChineseTiger1986

FairAndUnbiased said:


> However those are later on, after the Qin Dynasty, and even then, most of Hunan is closely related to Hubei, which is mostly 中原 especially near 麻城，襄阳，etc.



Are you from Hunan?

From my personal observation, the northern part of Hunan is definitely not very southern looking, but it is not truly northern looking either. It is middle looking, similar to many Shanghainese.

The Xiang people are a mixture between Huaxia colonizers and the Hmong-Mien folks, similar to the Wu speaking people from the Yangzi River Delta.


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## ChineseTiger1986

powastick said:


> You talk about unity, you think southerners don't care about unity? Those HK have too much influence from westerners and you blame the entire southern chinese. That kind of speech are for people who want to break China apart.



Read my early post, I didn't blame the South Chinese.

The "southernized" Chinese in my context means the liberal Chinese.

But I didn't say all South Chinese are liberals.



powastick said:


> There is a saying that southerners have more Han because of the Mongolian conquest which push the population southward. Then they have the Qing Dynasty where Manchus migrated southward.



Again, the southerners didn't have more Han DNA than the northerners.

The genetic continuation in the Central-North China is always very strong, and they didn't heavily mix with the Mongols and other Altaic tribes.

Ask this to @Grand Historian who is from Taiwan.


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## StarCraft_ZT

FairAndUnbiased said:


> However those are later on, after the Qin Dynasty, and even then, most of Hunan is closely related to Hubei, which is mostly 中原 especially near 麻城，襄阳，etc.



襄阳人's dialect, to my opinion, is similar to 河南南阳, they belong to Zhongyuan Mandarin. 襄阳人 don't understand a single word of 武汉话。

I never been to Hunan, but I think 湘语 is different from Hubei 西南官话 and 江淮官话的结合。

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## ChineseTiger1986

StarCraft_ZT said:


> 襄阳人's dialect, to my opinion, is similar to 河南南阳, they belong to Zhongyuan Mandarin. 襄阳人 don't understand a single word of 武汉话。
> 
> I never been to Hunan, but I think 湘语 is different from Hubei 西南官话 and 江淮官话的结合。



The Southern Henan is definitely closely related to Hubei, which is historically Chu with a heavy Hmong-Mien substrate.

Only the Northern Henan is purely North Chinese.

The Xiang dialect is closely related to the Wu dialect, and 江淮官话 is a hybrid dialect between 吴语 and 华北官话.

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## Europa

zeronet said:


> don't know what to say, seems that you divide your own people into two conflicting groups, for a supporter of china like you is this a little bit confusing to others?



he talked about martial spirit which is present in northern chinese.
he also talked about financial talents which came from southern chinese
both are interdependent components substituting each other

without northern chinese, nobody would take china seriously
without them, everybody would invade you
they are there for your security and freedom
they are the protectors of china
while southern chinese are builders

both people have their due share of contributions
so he is not against southern chinese
he is not dividing any people
he is trying to make an understanding

both a man and a woman make a family
woman is as much important as the man is
together they create life
men from north alone could not have built china without women from south

in the world, everywhere, martial spirit lies in the people who live the north
north conquers the south
the dna of martial race always came from the north everywhere

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## StarCraft_ZT

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Southern Henan is definitely close to Hubei, which is historically Chu with a heavy Hmong-Mien substrate.
> 
> Only the Northern Henan is purely North Chinese.
> 
> The Xiang dialect is closely related to the Wu dialect, and 江淮官话 is a hybrid dialect between 吴语 and 华北官话.



True. We all know culturally Yangtze River is the border of North and South China, but geographically it‘s 秦岭淮河一线 the real border. Henan is divided by Huai River and Yellow River. The gap of living habbit is quite huge. There is one city 信阳 south of Huai River. They mainly eat rice, they seldom eat noodles. But the most strange thing is that, once you cross the Huai River to the north, the local people immediatelly become 面食者。The Huai River is really magic. We 郑州人 don't understand their language. Most of 信阳人 come to 武汉 for living or shopping, because they are more culturally close, and only 170 km far, while to 郑州，it's more than 300km。Some 信阳人 are more close to 安徽。They also speak江淮官话。

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## jkroo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Are you from Hunan?
> 
> From my personal observation, the northern part of Hunan is definitely not very southern looking, but it is not truly northern looking either. It is middle looking, similar to many Shanghainese.
> 
> The Xiang people are a mixture between Huaxia colonizers and the Hmong-Mien folks, similar to the Wu speaking people from the Yangzi River Delta.


Bro, I am from Hunan. It's very complicated to talk about hunan people. In the history, the people structure has heavy effect with Yan Di and Chiyou tribes. First, you know Yan Di Ling is located at Yanling county, zhuzhou city. Second, after Chiyou tribes were defeated by Huang Di and Yan Di alliance. The descendants migrated from 中原 to 长江中游 and they were called 三苗，九黎. And Shun Di died in 湖南永州. In the 春秋 times, Hunan belong to Chu Kingdom and the northern/eastern Hunan especially nowadays 长株潭 had built city to control the land. In Qin/Han dynasty, Changsha county was an very important city in south China. In Song dynasty, northern Han migrate to 江浙两广湘赣 to avoid war and they were. called 客家人. That's why there are 客家人 in Hunan today. In Song/Yuan, Yuan/Ming, Ming/Qing, Qing/Mingguo period especially the war break and one dynasty was replacing another, many many hunan people died. There are many people immigrate from 江西, that's why today we still call them 江西老表. In Qing dynasty we also experienced 湖广填四川, that's mean Hunan people also emigrated to 四川. Mao Zedong's anscestors moved to Hunan from 江西吉安 in Ming dynasty.
All in all, Hunan people have complicated mixture.
As for culture, 湖湘文化(儒家亚文化) was effected by 宋代理学(周敦颐) and founded by 闽人 胡安国父子.

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## ChineseTiger1986

StarCraft_ZT said:


> True. We all know culturally Yangtze River is the border of North and South China, but geographically it‘s 秦岭淮河一线 the real border. Henan is divided by Huai River and Yellow River. The gap of living habbit is quite huge. There is one city 信阳 south of Huai River. They mainly eat rice, they seldom eat noodles. But the most strange thing is that, once you cross the Huai River to the north, the local people immediatelly become 面食者。The Huai River is really magic. We 郑州人 don't understand their language. Most of 信阳人 come to 武汉 for living or shopping, because they are more culturally close, and only 170 km far, while to 郑州，it's more than 300km。Some 信阳人 are more close to 安徽。They also speak江淮官话。



My grandmother (奶奶) came from 泰州, the hometown of Hu Jintao.

She is 170cm tall and looks close to North Chinese, but culturally she is South Chinese, and she ate 馄饨, not 饺子.

The speakers of 江淮官话 often face a confusion about their identity of being North Chinese or South Chinese.

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## FairAndUnbiased

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Are you from Hunan?
> 
> From my personal observation, the northern part of Hunan is definitely not very southern looking, but it is not truly northern looking either. It is middle looking, similar to many Shanghainese.
> 
> The Xiang people are a mixture between Huaxia colonizers and the Hmong-Mien folks, similar to the Wu speaking people from the Yangzi River Delta.



I am from Hubei. Lots of friends from Hunan. Very proud of my home province being the home of Chinese subs, 2nd largest steel company and multiple top tier universities - 1/6th of all residents in Wuhan are college students.

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## Europa

northeast said:


> One coward is coward，a bunch of cowards are still cowards .one sheep is the food of wolf，a crowed of sheep are still the food of wolves.Unity won't make you strong unless everyone is brave.Numbers don't matters that much.



more northern chinese should migrate to the south while the southern chinese should migrate to the west, thus a proper demographic plan should be implemented. southern chinese borders are unsafe and if northern chinese migrate there, it will be secured

i can even distinguish chinese members here and say who is from north and who is from south by reading their posts because bravery is reflected in their respective posts

i think, cirr is a northern chinese


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## INDIAPOSITIVE

HONG KONG (AP) - The students whose calls for democratic reforms sparked the most dramatic challenge to authorities since Hong Kong returned to Chinese control are vowing to keep up the fight.

But as the numbers of protesters dwindled Monday from tens of thousands into the hundreds, it was unclear where the tumult of the past week would lead.

Schools reopened and civil servants returned to work after protesters cleared the area outside the city government headquarters, a focal point of the demonstrations that began Sept. 26. Crowds also thinned markedly at the two other protest sites, and traffic flowed again through many roads that had been blocked.

In the Mong Kok district, the site of weekend clashes in which mobs tried to drive the demonstrators out of the intersection they were blocking, hundreds of curious onlookers surrounded the remaining protesters Monday evening, taking pictures.

"The threats in Mong Kok have passed, and now people are just curious about the sit-in," said 36-year-old Anita Lee, a resident. "That's why there are more onlookers than protesters."

Many in Hong Kong are wondering if the protest movement may have run its course and whether the students have a clear strategy for pressing their demand that all candidates for the city's top leader, or chief executive, not be screened by a pro-Beijing committee.

"They can't sustain attendance in protests if it goes on and on," said Michael Davis, a professor at Hong Kong University. "They need some strategy where they can withdraw the crowds so they can say to the government that if they are not sincere, they will mobilize crowds back on the streets."

Disagreements were evident after the students and the government began preliminary talks.

Lau Kong-wah, the undersecretary of constitutional affairs, said late Monday that the government and students had agreed on terms for the talks, including that the two sides would be on an equal footing.

Lester Shum, a leader of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, confirmed the agreement, but said they had not discussed or reached a consensus on the agenda.

Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying, who has rejected the protesters' calls for him to resign, said in a TV address Monday that the government would seek "a sincere dialogue on political reform."

At the same time, Leung reiterated that everyone should go home and stop blocking the streets.

"There are lots of teenagers and students with passion who love Hong Kong in various assemblies. However, some of them are aggressive and use violence. No matter what your attitude is toward Occupy Central, the police will firmly take enforcement action to those who use violence," he said.

The students say they would walk away from the talks if police, who fired tear gas and pepper spray on unarmed protesters Sept. 28, use force to clear away the remaining demonstrators. The police violence and attacks by mobs drew huge crowds in a massive show of support.

"It's up to the government now. This is the first step, but the pressure has to continue," said Alex Chow, one of the student leaders.

The leeway for negotiations appears limited since Leung and Chinese officials have said Beijing will stick to its decision to screen all candidates for top leader, which many in Hong Kong say amounts to reneging on its promise of universal suffrage.

One option would be to convince the government that having open nominations for chief executive is not as big a threat as the potential for further protests.

In that sense, "I think they can already declare victory in this round 1 of their movement," Davis said. "There's a contest for the hearts and minds of Hong Kong people going on, and protesters have clearly won round 1. They have the public support and sympathy."

While they might be weak in coordination and strategy, the protesters' youthfulness and the movement's lack of central leadership have added to their appeal. Lawmakers and pro-democracy politicians have played almost no role in the movement, which began as Occupy Central - a campaign founded last year by law professor Benny Tai. But Tai and other Occupy leaders have let several student and grass-roots political groups lead the protests.

One faction, Scholarism, is led by 17-year-old Joshua Wong and draws many younger students, while the Federation of Students represents mostly university students. Still other protesters say they follow no particular group or leader.

Differences and confusion within the movement became clear Sunday, when several leaders announced a retreat from key sites, while others declared there was no withdrawal or urged protesters to regroup in one main area.

Still, the protesters share a common agenda.

"There is still a remarkably consistent demand for genuine democracy," said Alvin Y.H. Cheung, a visiting scholar at the U.S.-Asia Law Institute. "There is a striking unity of purpose."

The young activists also have shown an impressive knack for coordination and planning. Although the sit-ins formed spontaneously, they were disciplined and doggedly nonviolent. The youths camped out in the middle of city streets, organized ample supply lines and kept the "occupation" areas as litter-free and orderly as possible.

By Monday, many of the remaining protesters in Hong Kong's Admiralty district and across Victoria Harbor in Mong Kok were undeterred by their dwindling numbers but admitted they could not afford to neglect work and school much longer.

But 18-year-old Louis Chan said he was not sure achieving free elections - the students' original goal - is likely.

"I did think it was possible, but now I don't think so because they (the Hong Kong government) didn't give any response and China is also very much against this," he said.


Hong Kong protesters, government officials agree to ‘several rounds’ of talks | FOX6Now.com

Hong Kong protests fade; students vow to carry on - FOX 13 News


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## ChineseTiger1986

Europa said:


> more northern chinese should migrate to the south while the southern chinese should migrate to the west, thus a proper demographic plan should be implemented. southern chinese borders are unsafe and if northern chinese migrate there, it will be secured
> 
> *i can even distinguish chinese members here and say who is from north and who is from south by reading their posts because bravery is reflected in their respective posts*
> 
> i think, cirr is a northern chinese



Can you make a list of guess about the Chinese members on PDF?

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## Europa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Can you make a list of guess about the Chinese members on PDF?



of course, but i should be given some time because i cannot remember all the names right now. i will definitely post, i always wanted to and i will use this occasion.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Europa said:


> more northern chinese should migrate to the south while the southern chinese should migrate to the west, thus a proper demographic plan should be implemented. southern chinese borders are unsafe and if northern chinese migrate there, it will be secured
> 
> i can even distinguish chinese members here and say who is from north and who is from south by reading their posts because bravery is reflected in their respective posts
> 
> i think, cirr is a northern chinese



Cirr is from Jiangxi. Where would you think I'm from? I'm the most fair and unbiased - the only time I've ever insulted anyone was when I told an Indian bigot to check himself before he wrecks himself.

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## StarCraft_ZT

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> My grandmother (奶奶) came from 泰州, the hometown of Hu Jintao.
> 
> She is 170cm tall and looks close to North Chinese, but culturally she is South Chinese, and she ate 馄饨, not 饺子.
> 
> The speakers of 江淮官话 often face a confusion about their identity of being North Chinese or South Chinese.



True. 苏北苏中苏南，huge difference。泰州，扬州 are typical 江淮地区。徐州 is 苏北。I have a friend from 徐州, we both talk our own dialect, amazingly to find out it's almost same.

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## BoQ77

Why protest ? why this week ? why in HK ? why by student ? 
They act as they want to get the proper response from govt, not cause violence to make a chaos.
It's the anti-protest and police who cause their blood and tear drop.


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## ChineseTiger1986

StarCraft_ZT said:


> True. 苏北苏中苏南，huge difference。泰州，扬州 are typical 江淮地区。徐州 is 苏北。I have a friend from 徐州, we both talk our own dialect, amazingly to find out it's almost same.



True, my grandmother is from 苏中, and 徐州 is truly 苏北, and they speak 中原/华北官话.

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## William Hung

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Exactly right.
> 
> Those who control nature, have the physical power to control humanity - after all, if you can tame the forces of weather, the atom, and outer space, controlling a mere person is nothing, right? But that's wrong - taming a human is different, because the human is the one who carries out such acts of controlling nature.
> 
> Controlling people's brains - controlling how they think, what their values are, how they interface with society - that is the crucial key to a stable society. For the ruling class, this is even better than having everyone be robots - you need to program robots. Media, if successful, is like robots programming themselves exactly the way you want.



Several years back, Bill Gates made a public speech complaining about the excessive fields in the soft science (arts and humanities) and that the hard sciences like maths and engineering is all that's needed in the university. Steve Jobs fired back later at another public speech saying that the soft sciences in the university is needed and that tech companies will bound to fail if they only focus on the hard sciences. Years later we now know who's right. I've never heard of anyone who's camped overnight just to be the first to get a new Windows phone. Apples on the other hand... 

Rumours has it that the CIA/Pentagon even once experimented with supposed psychics, hypnotists, etc. Probably didn't achieve much from it but it says that the US/West takes the study of human behaviour and the humanities much more seriously, and is a lot more advanced in this field than any other country.


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## Europa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Cirr is from Jiangxi. Where would you think I'm from? I'm the most fair and unbiased - the only time I've ever insulted anyone was when I told an Indian bigot to check himself before he wrecks himself.



just give me some time, i will post a list based on my assumption. the northern chinese posts reflect witty pragmatic uncompromising and straightforward replies but their numbers are smaller than those of the southern chinese. for example, jlaw or someone i can't remember this time, is a northern chinese for sure. i think beidou, sino soldier are northern chinese too. and please don't mix me with any particular nationality while in an objective discussion


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## William Hung

Europa said:


> i can even distinguish chinese members here and say who is from north and who is from south by reading their posts because bravery is reflected in their respective posts



LMAO..... can you guess who I am? chinese? non-chinese? black, white, yellow, brown, North, South, East, West, North West, South East, North south Central, slightly to the east? lol.


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## StarCraft_ZT

Europa said:


> just give me some time, i will post a list based on my assumption. the northern chinese posts reflect witty pragmatic uncompromising and straightforward replies but their numbers are smaller than those of the southern chinese. for example, jlaw or someone i can't remember this time, is a northern chinese for sure. i think beidou, sino soldier are northern chinese too. and please don't mix me with any particular nationality while in an objective discussion



My friend, Beidou is not even Chinese. No offence, but I think just observation from PDF posts is not persuasive.



Black Flag said:


> LMAO..... can you guess who I am? chinese? non-chinese? black, white, yellow, brown, North, South, East, West, North West, South East, North south Central, slightly to the east? lol.



I am curious. Which part of the world do you come from?  You don't have flags.


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## William Hung

StarCraft_ZT said:


> My friend, Beidou is not even Chinese. No offence, but I think just observation from PDF posts is not persuasive.
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious. Which part of the world do you come from?  You don't have flags.



You will have to wait for Europa's analysis. He is our "expert" here.

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## TaiShang

Black Flag said:


> You almost got it. But not just political philosophy and theory, they must try to understand humans and the human condition as well, I. e. the humanities and arts.
> 
> This is why I think the Soviet didn't last like the west did. The soviets put too much effort on politics, economics and technology while neglecting the study of humans. The West was way superior in this respect.



I agree. China as a nation of 1.4 billion, does have the manpower to produce superior scientists in every field, including anthropology, sociology and psychology. Just as an indigenous jet fighter is essential for national security and defence, an indigenous political theory or comprehensive study on social engineering and human behavior is essential to deliver the message through soft channels where hard power is not required.

It is all about creating a national discourse and marketing it overseas.



Black Flag said:


> Several years back, Bill Gates made a public speech complaining about the excessive fields in the soft science (arts and humanities) and that the hard sciences like maths and engineering is all that's needed in the university. Steve Jobs fired back later at another public speech saying that the soft sciences in the university is needed and that tech companies will bound to fail if they only focus on the hard sciences. Years later we now know who's right. I've never heard of anyone who's camped overnight just to be the first to get a new Windows phone. Apples on the other hand...



A balanced approach to both hard and soft sciences is the right attitude. But, if/when a nation has to give priority to one of them to start with national development, I would say, hard sciences should come first. Soft power is simply an extension of hard power. Complex interdependence and all those constructivist learning/mimicking works to the favor of the one that is stronger in hard power aspects.

China has done right by prioritizing natural sciences; an army of lawyers and historians will do no good in terms of productivity and power projection. China needs good/top quality political philosophers, historians and creative writers, for sure, but, not an army of them, which is in fact detrimental to overall quality.

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## RazPaK

So North Chinese>South Chinese???


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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> Why protest ? why this week ? why in HK ? why by student ?
> They act as they want to get the proper response from govt, not cause violence to make a chaos.
> It's the anti-protest and police who cause their blood and tear drop.



Ah, brother, you missed the party -- we have chewed the issue to the bone during your absence. And how exciting was that!

This ain't of no interest to most any more. The excitement is gone. Indians and Vietnamese jumped up and down fast and long enough. They are all spent.

Let's move on and find something else to bash China.


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## William Hung

TaiShang said:


> I agree. China as a nation of 1.4 billion, does have the manpower to produce superior scientists in every field, including anthropology, sociology and psychology. Just as an indigenous jet fighter is essential for national security and defence, an indigenous political theory or comprehensive study on social engineering and human behavior is essential to deliver the message through soft channels where hard power is not required.
> 
> It is all about creating a national discourse and marketing it overseas.
> 
> 
> 
> A balanced approach to both hard and soft sciences is the right attitude. But, if/when a nation has to give priority to one of them to start with national development, I would say, hard sciences should come first. Soft power is simply an extension of hard power. Complex interdependence and all those constructivist learning/mimicking works to the favor of the one that is stronger in hard power aspects.
> 
> China has done right by prioritizing natural sciences; an army of lawyers and historians will do no good in terms of productivity and power projection. China needs good/top quality political philosophers, historians and creative writers, for sure, but, not an army of them, which is in fact detrimental to overall quality.



I think you're mixing the "Hard power/Soft power" dichotomy with the "Hard science/Soft science" dichotomy.

They are quite independent. Put it this way, a very cunning fraudster may have hard power without any hard science... e. g. he could easily cheat, coerce and abuse people without using force but just by understanding well the psychology of his victims and exploiting it. 

Likewise, you could have soft power just by using hard science alone. For example, a country may achieve some technological goal and earn the respect and admiration of other countries.

My point was, to have both hard power and soft power like some western countries, both hard power and soft power needs the soft science.


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## tranquilium

Black Flag said:


> Good points, but I think you've missed my previous posts just above yours. I'll make two points to question your reply.
> 1. Is it really just all about worldview/political ideology? In some countries I mentioned above, like Thailand, they had the same democracy-capitalist model, but still suffered various unrest and conflict recently.


I blame the cold war for hyping up the amount of influence ideology plays. While it is nature for different nations to have different ideologies, most of the core principle is actually the same. I mean, if you break down the basic ideology of China, US, Russia and most other countries, you will get core principles like "we want to live a good life", "we need to have our needs satisfied", etc. The difference is that how these core principles will be realized and here is the most important part, as long as it works, it will be accepted by people.
How does this relate to your question? Well, unfortunately, in real world whether your idea works is really not all completely dependent on how well thought out it is. In fact, if you put enough strength behind it, even stupid ideas can work. When translate into a national levels, it means that whether your ideology works heavily depends on how much strength your nation can muster. This is why many methods works for larger countries like China or US, but when smaller nations try to do the same thing, it fails miserably. 
So basically, the root cause of Thailand's problem isn't whatever political and economic model they picked, rather it is because it is a small country, so it crumbles under pressure much easier than larger nations.



> 2. Is possessing technology and military power the main factor why western countries can have influence on others? All of the conflicts that happened to the countries I mentioned, did not start out with superiority of technology or military power. Even in this recent unrest in HK, it wasn't triggered by military involvement. It seems to have all been started from ideas in human minds.


Erm, Europe's rise from 1500 to 1950s has a lot to do with historical coincidence. Between the 700s to end of middle age, Islamic nations in middle east to Europeans is pretty much what European countries to Middle Eastern countries today. Then the Mongols came and pretty much smashed up civilizations all the way from East Asia to Middle East. Europe is really only spared on Mongolian invasion because the Khan died right before the conquest started. When your opponents got weakened, you gain an advantage, and it just snowballs that way. 
In fact, this is precisely how US and USSR came into dominance after WWII, the previous power holders (European countries) are significantly weakened during the two world wars, allowing other powers to emerge.
The recent rise of China also partially follow the same path. With main powers like USSR collapsing and US weakening itself due to mismanagement in economy and boggled down in middle east, China got the chance to rise.
Basically, technical and economy might are the tools you use to influence others, but it can be influenced by historical coincidence. The rise of Europe, rise of US and USSR, rise of China and rise of pretty much every other power on the planet follows a similar trend.
To be honest, these really doesn't much to do with the recent event in Hong Kong, as it is not really a democratic movement or any movement out of ideology.


> So my question to you now, why the west don't have to worry much about this as some other countries does? This is the puzzle.
> Sure they have some protests and riots, and sure they have programs like NSA. But they are relatively more stable than other countries.


What do you mean the west doesn't have to worry about these? While the richer western countries are stable countries, they have they share of civil unrest and violence. Take US, for example, the recent Ferguson case, the previous occupy wall street movement, not to mention the numerous civil movements during cold war, as well as even earlier cases like Bonus march (which, btw, is very similar to tiananmen square event).
Though, you are absolutely right that western countries (again, the richer and more powerful ones) are relatively stable. This is because comparing to middle eastern countries, they are fundamentally safer in the sense that they are way much resistant to a direct military invasion. Because we talk about civil movement this, protest that, but as far as social disruption goes, none of these even come close to wars.



RazPaK said:


> So North Chinese>South Chinese???



Not sure what ">" is suppose to represent. Physically Northern Chinese are, on average, taller and by extension, heavier, but that's about it.

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## RazPaK

tranquilium said:


> I blame the cold war for hyping up the amount of influence ideology plays. While it is nature for different nations to have different ideologies, most of the core principle is actually the same. I mean, if you break down the basic ideology of China, US, Russia and most other countries, you will get core principles like "we want to live a good life", "we need to have our needs satisfied", etc. The difference is that how these core principles will be realized and here is the most important part, as long as it works, it will be accepted by people.
> How does this relate to your question? Well, unfortunately, in real world whether your idea works is really not all completely dependent on how well thought out it is. In fact, if you put enough strength behind it, even stupid ideas can work. When translate into a national levels, it means that whether your ideology works heavily depends on how much strength your nation can muster. This is why many methods works for larger countries like China or US, but when smaller nations try to do the same thing, it fails miserably.
> So basically, the root cause of Thailand's problem isn't whatever political and economic model they picked, rather it is because it is a small country, so it crumbles under pressure much easier than larger nations.
> 
> 
> Erm, Europe's rise from 1500 to 1950s has a lot to do with historical coincidence. Between the 700s to end of middle age, Islamic nations in middle east to Europeans is pretty much what European countries to Middle Eastern countries today. Then the Mongols came and pretty much smashed up civilizations all the way from East Asia to Middle East. Europe is really only spared on Mongolian invasion because the Khan died right before the conquest started. When your opponents got weakened, you gain an advantage, and it just snowballs that way.
> In fact, this is precisely how US and USSR came into dominance after WWII, the previous power holders (European countries) are significantly weakened during the two world wars, allowing other powers to emerge.
> The recent rise of China also partially follow the same path. With main powers like USSR collapsing and US weakening itself due to mismanagement in economy and boggled down in middle east, China got the chance to rise.
> Basically, technical and economy might are the tools you use to influence others, but it can be influenced by historical coincidence. The rise of Europe, rise of US and USSR, rise of China and rise of pretty much every other power on the planet follows a similar trend.
> To be honest, these really doesn't much to do with the recent event in Hong Kong, as it is not really a democratic movement or any movement out of ideology.
> 
> What do you mean the west doesn't have to worry about these? While the richer western countries are stable countries, they have they share of civil unrest and violence. Take US, for example, the recent Ferguson case, the previous occupy wall street movement, not to mention the numerous civil movements during cold war, as well as even earlier cases like Bonus march (which, btw, is very similar to tiananmen square event).
> Though, you are absolutely right that western countries (again, the richer and more powerful ones) are relatively stable. This is because comparing to middle eastern countries, they are fundamentally safer in the sense that they are way much resistant to a direct military invasion. Because we talk about civil movement this, protest that, but as far as social disruption goes, none of these even come close to wars.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what ">" is suppose to represent. Physically Northern Chinese are, on average, taller and by extension, heavier, but that's about it.



So Cao Cao was better than Sun Jian?


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## tranquilium

Black Flag said:


> Several years back, Bill Gates made a public speech complaining about the excessive fields in the soft science (arts and humanities) and that the hard sciences like maths and engineering is all that's needed in the university. Steve Jobs fired back later at another public speech saying that the soft sciences in the university is needed and that tech companies will bound to fail if they only focus on the hard sciences. Years later we now know who's right. I've never heard of anyone who's camped overnight just to be the first to get a new Windows phone. Apples on the other hand...
> 
> Rumours has it that the CIA/Pentagon even once experimented with supposed psychics, hypnotists, etc. Probably didn't achieve much from it but it says that the US/West takes the study of human behaviour and the humanities much more seriously, and is a lot more advanced in this field than any other country.



I am not sure why Gate's and Job's speeches are supposed to be counters. Gate's speech means university should focus more on hard science, but his speech by no means imply soft science is useless. Sure, if you stuff the company with nothing but hard science people, you may have a hard time, but as far as high tech company goes, hard science majors are still most posts will require.



RazPaK said:


> So Cao Cao was better than Sun Jian?



Cao cao was a better leader than Sun Jian as far as running a kingdom goes. Though in a personal fight, Sun Jian would destroy Cao cao. The poor guy is barely over 140 cm in height.

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## William Hung

tranquilium said:


> I blame the cold war for hyping up the amount of influence ideology plays. While it is nature for different nations to have different ideologies, most of the core principle is actually the same. I mean, if you break down the basic ideology of China, US, Russia and most other countries, you will get core principles like "we want to live a good life", "we need to have our needs satisfied", etc. The difference is that how these core principles will be realized and here is the most important part, as long as it works, it will be accepted by people.
> How does this relate to your question? Well, unfortunately, in real world whether your idea works is really not all completely dependent on how well thought out it is. In fact, if you put enough strength behind it, even stupid ideas can work. When translate into a national levels, it means that whether your ideology works heavily depends on how much strength your nation can muster. This is why many methods works for larger countries like China or US, but when smaller nations try to do the same thing, it fails miserably.
> So basically, the root cause of Thailand's problem isn't whatever political and economic model they picked, rather it is because it is a small country, so it crumbles under pressure much easier than larger nations.



Hmmm, the problem with the "core principles" such as having a good and stable life, having basic needs satisfied, is that HK is a much more developed city than a lot of Western cities or even some western countries. In fact, I think HK is in the top 20% of the world when it comes to wealth, development and standard of living. Yet, some of the smaller and less developed countries in the lower rank (whether they are western or non-western) are relatively more stable. So I don't think it's the "core principles" and the state's ability to safe guard them that is the issue here.

I don't think it's about democracy either, as many people have already mentioned that HK never had such democracy under the British administration.

I don't think the size of a country plays any crucial factor either.... Thailand, Egypt, etc are bigger than a lot of Western countries.



> Erm, Europe's rise from 1500 to 1950s has a lot to do with historical coincidence. Between the 700s to end of middle age, Islamic nations in middle east to Europeans is pretty much what European countries to Middle Eastern countries today. Then the Mongols came and pretty much smashed up civilizations all the way from East Asia to Middle East. Europe is really only spared on Mongolian invasion because the Khan died right before the conquest started. When your opponents got weakened, you gain an advantage, and it just snowballs that way.
> In fact, this is precisely how US and USSR came into dominance after WWII, the previous power holders (European countries) are significantly weakened during the two world wars, allowing other powers to emerge.
> The recent rise of China also partially follow the same path. With main powers like USSR collapsing and US weakening itself due to mismanagement in economy and boggled down in middle east, China got the chance to rise.
> Basically, technical and economy might are the tools you use to influence others, but it can be influenced by historical coincidence. The rise of Europe, rise of US and USSR, rise of China and rise of pretty much every other power on the planet follows a similar trend.
> To be honest, these really doesn't much to do with the recent event in Hong Kong, as it is not really a democratic movement or any movement out of ideology.



I actually think the period from the middle ages to the western colonial age plays into the hand of countries with hard power. No soft power was necessary at that time. Just use hard power to take over other territories, and use hard power again to suppress any resistance. As long as they have hard power, they can treat their colony and subjects anyway they want, they can treat the colonised people as subhuman if they wanted to, and they did.

But I was talking about recent history, 30-40 years back until now. And obviously colonists doesn't exist anymore nor will it be possible now (neo-colonism would be a different matter). However, in recent history, alot of countries like I mentioned were and are still susceptible to unrest and turmoil.

The question was why? if problems of basic needs, political ideologies, democracy, economy are not the main issue, then what is? why are they susceptible while other western countries are not as susceptible?



> What do you mean the west doesn't have to worry about these? While the richer western countries are stable countries, they have they share of civil unrest and violence. Take US, for example, the recent Ferguson case, the previous occupy wall street movement, not to mention the numerous civil movements during cold war, as well as even earlier cases like Bonus march (which, btw, is very similar to tiananmen square event).
> Though, you are absolutely right that western countries (again, the richer and more powerful ones) are relatively stable. This is because comparing to middle eastern countries, they are fundamentally safer in the sense that they are way much resistant to a direct military invasion. Because we talk about civil movement this, protest that, but as far as social disruption goes, none of these even come close to wars.



I mentioned that they do exists in Western countries, and that western countries do have programs like NSA, Patriotic acts, whatever. All countries have them. But their unrest is relatively minor compared to what happened to countries in the middle East, Ukraine, Thailand, etc.

You have to admit, there are more fear in such countries (including HK) of civil unrest than there is in Western countries. The govt's control on the media, foreign groups, etc, are less strict in the western countries. Yet, the average western civilians are less susceptible to unrest and protest than the civilians in the countries mentioned. My question was why?


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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Europa said:


> indians in hong kong demanding
> 
> View attachment 114056


go back to india to enjoy your proud democrazy

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## cirr

Black Flag said:


> You should be asking, why are Japan and western countries open to foreign interest group and their internal politics are still relatively stable. On the other hand, why do you think your country is forced to cut down and close the doors for these foreign group because of the fear of internal instability?
> 
> If you can't solve this puzzle, your mind is too small.



Stable my azz。

Would I be ok if I establish a party in the US with the sole purpose of toppling the current political structure？

And I get funded by foreign countries and organizations while doing so？

The US is supposedly a free country。Right？

And you think it is a show of confidence in yourself and your political system now that you are starting to close down the Confucius Institues in your stinky country？

And you think you are open to Chinese investments？Don't kid yourself。



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Cirr is from Jiangxi. Where would you think I'm from? I'm the most fair and unbiased - the only time I've ever insulted anyone was when I told an Indian bigot to check himself before he wrecks himself.



Strange you should be under the impression that I am from Jiangxi。

I hail from Beijing but live in Shanghai now a days。

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## Infra_Man99

nvKyleBrown said:


> Not related to security of any kind, other than reasonably securing the product/services themselves (e.g. locks, software security, etc). Any military sales would be incidental, we do not make military products. The military does buy lots of commercial, off-the-shelf stuff, they very probably consume some of our products in that fashion. Generally, we do not sell to the government, but there are probably cases where government agencies buy/use our products/services. I am only aware of a few cases, it would be a very small part of the business. We did do a bit of consulting with NASA on the shuttle years ago, but that was, again, very very unusual, it is not our normal line of work. We don't make rockets or rocket parts, nothing like that, it was a one-off piece of research (and before we were owned by VLC). As far as too big to fail, my company certainly is not, but VLC might be considered so. There was a scare a few years back, but no mention of the government stepping in. The government would certainly not step in to save my group. Nor would they need to, as I said, we are stable and profitable. There are companies like that.
> 
> By the way, the VLC failing would likely not be that big of a deal to us. We're a profitable group, so it would just mean we'd get spun off or sold off to another VLC to pay off debts, raise capital, or whatever the VLC decided (or had decided for it, in the case of bankruptcy). We could come out of such a thing better off, actually.
> 
> As far as agreeing or disagreeing, I think I said that 30-40% of Americans have a particular view on how government should be formed. That 2/3rds agree with your view on how things should be is doubtful. There is not a 2/3rds majority view. Saying the system is going in the wrong direction does not mean you agree on which direction it should be going (bigger/smaller). If you mean 2/3rds of people are unhappy, yes. But they are unhappy for different reasons. The small government folks are unhappy because the government isn't small enough for them. The big government folks are unhappy because it isn't big enough. By my calculation, thats 60-80% of the population unhappy (politically, at least). But, no more than half of those unhappy people are unhappy for the same reason your unhappy, unless you are schizophrenic and want the government to be both larger and smaller.
> 
> Realistically, people have more complex views. Some are unhappy about civil liberties, some about taxes, etc, etc. That everyone's unhappiness lines up with yours, that is, that they agree with you, is extremely unlikely. That some people agree with you is certain. If you were a majority, you'd have elections won already. But, whether your conservative or liberal, people keep voting against you in sufficient numbers that you don't get what you want (completely).



I'm glad that you are not dependent on government contracts and too big to fail corporations. I greatly value the government and corporations, but I think we need a government and corporations that are a lot more effective and a lot less dishonest and wasteful.

I never said 2/3rds of Americans exactly agree with me. I said that 2/3rds of Americans agree with me that the nation is going the wrong direction. There is a big difference between those two statements.

Again, I repeat myself. Democracy claims that the majority has the moral right and practical reasons to impose their will on the minority or the entire nation. I think this claim is false. America has a Constitution and Bill of Rights for obvious reasons to any American with basic intelligence. Like many other Americans, I seek regime change in the US. After all, the US changes like all nations throughout history. Hopefully, it's for the better. The devil is in the details. As you pointed out, people disagree over how the nation should change or revert.

It's hypocritical for the US government and its connected corporations to promote aggressive or chaotic regime change in other nations, but suppress these protests and rebellions back home. In addition, the US government and its connected corporations incorrectly assume that what works in the US will work everywhere. That is hardly the case. 

This incorrect assumption disastrously failed in Iraq and at Afghanistan. It is also failing in Syria and Ukraine. Hong Kong was suppose to be next, but it's turning into a flop. The idea that everyone in the world should become mindless consumers and obey the US upper class is ridiculously dumb. It's impractical at the individual level, for worldwide communities, and for the global environment and global scarcity.

Anyhow, here is a minute sample of data about the problems caused by US policies:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Satisfaction With Direction of U.S. Remains at 25%*
Satisfaction With Direction of U.S. Remains at 25%
May 16, 2014

. . . . 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Americans are as satisfied with the way things are going in the U.S. as they have been for the past five months. One in four (25%) say they are satisfied with current direction of the country, while 74% express dissatisfaction.

. . . . 

Democrats (35%) and independents (24%) continue to be more satisfied with the state of the nation than Republicans (15%). Although low, the current level of satisfaction among Republicans is, by one percentage point, at its highest level since January 2009 when President Barack Obama was inaugurated.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Poll finds Americans have little faith in government*
Poll finds Americans have little faith in government | Dallas Morning News
Updated: 02 January 2014 09:14 AM 

. . . . 

Half say America's system of democracy needs either "a lot of changes" or a complete overhaul, according to the poll conducted by the AP-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. Just 1 in 20 says it works well and needs no changes.

. . . . 

When asked to name up to 10 world or national problems they would "like the government to be working on" in 2014, Americans chiefly cite issues that have dominated — and often flummoxed — the White House and Congress for five years. Health care reform topped the list. It is likely, however, that those naming the issue include both opponents and supporters of President Barack Obama's sweeping health care overhaul.

Jobs and the economy were next, followed by the nation's debt and deficit spending.

Some issues that draw ample media and campaign attention rank lower in the public's priorities. No more than 3 percent of Americans listed gay rights, abortion or domestic spying as prime topics for government action.

. . . . 

But asked generally about the role of government in society, the AP-NORC Center poll finds Americans divided on how active they want government to be. Half say "the less government the better." However, almost as many (48 percent) say "there are more things that government should be doing."

On the economy, an area historically driven by the private sector, the poll finds a clear public desire for active government. Fifty-seven percent of Americans say "we need a strong government to handle today's complex economic problems."

Even among those who say "the less government the better," 31 percent feel the nation needs a strong government to handle those complex problems.

Americans don't feel terribly optimistic about their own economic opportunities. Although 49 percent say their standard of living surpasses their parents', most are broadly pessimistic about the opportunity to achieve the American Dream. And they are mixed on whether people like them have a good chance to improve their standard of living.

Few are hopeful that the pieces are in place for the government to improve. About half are pessimistic about the country's ability to produce strong leaders generally. And 61 percent are pessimistic about the system of government overall and the way leaders are chosen.

. . . . 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Republican Lies Rejected: 73% Say Congress Has Done Nothing To Help the American People*
Republican Lies Rejected: 73% Say Congress Has Done Nothing To Help the American People
Thursday, December, 26th, 2013, 10:28 am 

. . . . 

Every demographic group in the poll agreed that this Congress is the worst that they have ever seen in their entire lives. Women, men, African-Americans, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, rich, poor, old young all agree that this Congress is the worst.

The bad news for Republicans is that they aren’t fooling anyone with their rhetoric about doing the work of the American people. 73% of respondents said that this Congress has done nothing to address the nation’s problems. The negativity cuts in every direction. 52% believe Democratic policies would take the country in the wrong direction. 54% believe Republican policies would take the country in the wrong direction, and the same 54% believe President Obama’s policies would take the country in the wrong direction.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Fox News poll: Voters dissatisfied with direction of US, still 'meh' on economy*
Fox News poll: Voters dissatisfied with direction of US, still 'meh' on economy | Fox News
Published July 24, 2014

. . . . 

The small decline actually comes from Democrats: 60 percent are satisfied today vs. 67 percent in May. At the same time, satisfaction among Republicans (18 percent) and independents (33 percent) held mostly steady. 

Overall, a 60-percent majority is dissatisfied with conditions in the U.S. For reference, 79 percent were dissatisfied in the days before President Obama took office in January 2009, and 65 percent were unhappy in October 2010.

. . . . 

Partisanship plays a big role in views on the economy: 56 percent of Democrats think the worst is over, while 73 percent of Republicans feel the opposite. And 55 percent of Democrats think the job situation is getting better, while 75 percent of Republicans disagree.

Overall, 53 percent of voters think that the Obama administration has been very (17 percent) or somewhat (36 percent) competent at managing the economy, while 45 percent don’t think so.

The numbers are reversed on President Obama’s job performance rating on the economy: 40 percent approve, while 57 percent disapprove. Job ratings focus on what the president’s doing on the economy rather than simply management competence.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*More Now See Failure than Success in Iraq, Afghanistan*
More Now See Failure than Success in Iraq, Afghanistan | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
January 30, 2014

. . . . 

After more than a decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the public does not think the United States has achieved its goals in either country. About half of Americans (52%) say the U.S. has mostly failed to achieve its goals in Afghanistan while 38% say it has mostly succeeded. Opinions about the U.S. war in Iraq are virtually the same: 52% say the United States has mostly failed in reaching its goals there, while 37% say it has mostly succeeded.

. . . . 

The decisions to use military force in Iraq and Afghanistan continue to draw majority support among Republicans. By contrast, Democrats are divided about evenly over whether it was right or wrong for the U.S. to use force in Afghanistan, and Democrats continue to overwhelmingly oppose the decision to use force in Iraq.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*AP-GfK poll: Americans ready to close the book on wars in Iraq, Afghanistan*
AP-GfK poll: Americans ready to close the book on wars in Iraq, Afghanistan | Associated Press GfK Poll
Aug 1, 2014

. . . . 

Roughly three out of four Americans polled think that in hindsight, each war will be deemed as an outright “complete failure” or “more of a failure than success.”

A majority of those polled, or 70 percent, said the United States was right to withdraw American troops from Iraq in 2011 and pull most U.S. forces out of Afghanistan by December. The two conflicts have consumed the nation for more than a decade and claimed the lives of 6,800 U.S. troops.

. . . . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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## Europa

StarCraft_ZT said:


> My friend, *Beidou is not even Chinese.* No offence, but I think just observation from PDF posts is not persuasive.
> I am curious. Which part of the world do you come from?  You don't have flags.









see him there


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## StarCraft_ZT

Europa said:


> View attachment 115918
> 
> 
> see him there

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## cirr

The days when Hong Kong is preferentially treated by the central government and Mainland China are over。

It is time for the tiny place to stand on its own feet。

It can for example start with having its own supply of fresh water and electricity。

Those who hanker for western style “democracy” should ask，indeed beg，for help from their foreign overlords。

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## William Hung

cirr said:


> Stable my azz。
> 
> Would I be ok if I establish a party in the US with the sole purpose of toppling the current political structure？
> 
> And I get funded by foreign countries and organizations while doing so？
> 
> The US is supposedly a free country。Right？



In fact, any US citizens are free to establish their own political party and topple the current political power at the next election. And you can do so with the backing and support from foreign entities. 

But the chances of you achieving this goal will likely be 0%, even when you're free to campaign as much as you want. I doubt you can even get any significant attention from the average Americans, let alone trigger a protest, etc. 

On the other hand, it is illegal to establish a political power in HK to change the political system. Yet, some minor influences from outside force can trigger a large civil protest and unrest. 

And if you can't ask why is this so, let alone answering it, then your mind is too narrow and shortsighted. 



> And you think it is a show of confidence in yourself and your political system now that you are starting to close down the Confucius Institues in your stinky country？



You should ask, what achievement and influence does these oversea CI have on the local people? was it a success? why not? 



> And you think you are open to Chinese investments？Don't kid yourself。



Don't know what's your point here.


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## gambit

cirr said:


> Would I be ok if I establish a party in the US with the sole purpose of toppling the current political structure？
> 
> And I get funded by foreign countries and organizations while doing so？


Yes, it would be fine for you to do so. You did not know that there is a Communist Party of the USA and that it used to be clandestinely financed by the Soviet Union and China ?



cirr said:


> The US is supposedly a free country。Right？


Right. More free than you will ever know.


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## TaiShang

Black Flag said:


> In fact, any US citizens are free to establish their own political party and topple the current political power at the next election. And you can do so with the backing and support from foreign entities.
> But the chances of you achieving this goal will likely be 0%, even when you're free to campaign as much as you want. I doubt you can even get any significant attention from the average Americans, let alone trigger a protest, etc.



I will quote from Georg Lukacs (History and Class Consciousness: Studies in Marxist Dialectics):

The US essentially lacks the elasticity for change as it is increasingly getting devoid of theory put in action because it is too much immersed in self-aggrandizement and exceptionalism that amount to ideology-worship.

Yet, in this case, man's comprehension of reality remains arrested in the realm where social forms,
“appear to be fixed, complete and immutable entities which can be manipulated and even comprehended, but never overthrown.”

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## Infra_Man99

Desertfalcon said:


> Like I said, I will NOT respond point by point, to anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi thugs, particularly those who leech off America's freedom and hide within it's security that braver, real men provide, while they ungenerously denigrate that very country they live in. I will NOT respond to anyone like that anymore than any other neo-Nazi bigot or racist. And any person who says things like,
> 
> _"I doubt you are a real Catholic. I bet you are a closet Jew. Lots of Jews adopt gentile names to swindle gentiles."_
> 
> ...are clearly nothing more than sad little bigots and not worth my time. *AgentOrange *may feel comfortable defending such persons, but I will not engaged them in their twisted thinking.



You sound like a parrot: "Polly wants a cracker. Anti-Semitic Nazis. Polly wants a cracker. Anti-Semitic Nazis . . . " Now I see why you call yourself the "Desertfalcon". You have a bird brain filled with barren ideas. You're probably a fat, dumb piece of crap who uses patriotism to justify his hypocrisy and stupidity. You should be named the Dessert Sultan.

Here are more news about your beloved Israel, God's most valuable nation, or the nation that will rule over all inferior gentiles. See how Israel has been using tremendous American and European aid to commit crimes against humanity. Israel the parasitic warmonger is very lucky the US protects Israel at the UN.

According to a poll I previously provided, most of the world dislikes Israel. The US government boasts about its democracy. Israel boasts about its democracy. However, they only care about democracy when the majority votes to their advantage. When the majority votes to their disadvantage, then suddenly democracy does not matter anymore.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Israel eyes landfill site for Bedouin nomads*
Israel eyes landfill site for Bedouin nomads| Reuters
Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:04am EDT

. . . .

The Bedouin say they are being forced to forgo many aspects of their traditional way of life which relies on land, livestock and tents. All have been targets of Israeli restrictions.

"Our lifestyle relies on being able to move around, to live in dispersed tents on large plots of land and raise animals, which we love doing," said Mohammad Korshan, a resident of al-Khan al-Ahmar of the Jahalin Bedouin tribe.

"The Israeli authorities just don't understand our lifestyle," he added, sitting in his airy tent held up by wooden sticks, the rocky floor covered with a thick rug.

Israel says the camps are set up illegally without permits, and sometimes stand in the way of urban planning. In remoter parts of the occupied West Bank, the army evicts Bedouin it says are squatting inside live-firing ranges.

Critics say these are just excuses for land grabs.

. . . .

The stench of garbage floats over the Palestinian Bedouin village of al Jabal on the fringes of the Abu Dis landfill. Noisy rubbish trucks carrying waste from nearby Jerusalem incessantly dump their contents.

Around 1,050 Palestinian Jahalin Bedouins were forcibly moved here in the late 1990s from land now annexed to the Jewish settlement of Maale Adumim.

Once semi-nomadic herders, they were compensated through court orders for their move with cash, and electricity and water supplies. But their life as Bedouins ended as they had to sell off most of their livestock, residents say.

In 2006 Israel approved another plan to relocate some 20 other Bedouin communities -- about 2,400 Jahalin -- from the nearby rocky hills to a site even closer to the landfill.

"I would rather die than live in a closed-in area filled with garbage," said Daoud Jahalin, a resident of al-Khan al-Ahmar, one of the communities slated for relocation.

. . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*High Court judge calls for U.S. to pardon Pollard*
High Court judge calls for U.S. to pardon Pollard | The Ugly Truth

. . . .

Supreme Court Justice Elyakim Rubinstein [American Jew] has called for the U.S. authorities to pardon Jonathan Pollard [American & Israeli Jew], the American who famously pleaded guilty to spying for Israel in 1987.

. . . .

Pollard was arrested at the end of Lewis’ term in Israel, when Rubinstein was deputy ambassador in Washington from 1984 to 1986. Rubinstein was acting ambassador on November 21, 1985, when Pollard tried to drive into the Israeli Embassy parking lot, was turned back by Israeli guards and arrested by FBI agents.

Rubinstein did not know that Pollard was being operated as a spy by Rafi Eitan, head of the Bureau of Scientific Relations.

Rubinstein would later work for Pollard’s release, including when he was attorney general. Israeli presidents, prime ministers and ministers have shared in these efforts, most recently Benjamin Netanyahu at his meeting Wednesday with U.S. President Barack Obama.

. . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*‘Ethnic cleansing for a better world’ — Richard Cohen says Palestinians brought the Nakba on themselves*
'Ethnic cleansing for a better world' -- Richard Cohen says Palestinians brought the Nakba on themselves
October 1, 2014

. . . .

_Washington Post_ columnist Richard Cohen [American Jewish propagandist] says that the Palestinians are to blame for the Nakba, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 in which 750,000 Palestinians were expelled by or fled Zionist militias and were never allowed to return. In his new book _Israel: Is It Good for the Jews?_ Cohen says that by resisting the Zionist movement to take their lands, the Palestinians gave the Jewish immigrants, with their “advanced culture,” no choice but to force them from their homes.

. . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Read the genocidal sermon a notable Atlanta rabbi gave this Rosh Hashanah*
Read the genocidal sermon a notable Atlanta rabbi gave this Rosh Hashanah
October 3, 2014

. . . .

Last Thursday Rabbi Shalom Lewis of Congregation Etz Chaim in the Atlanta suburb of Marietta, Georgia gave what can only be understood as a call to genocide in his Rosh Hashanah sermon to welcome in the Jewish new year. The sermon, republished in full below, calls for a war on Islam and Muslims worldwide. Lewis says a “holy crusade” against Islam is needed to”exterminate it utterly and absolutely.”

. . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*CBS Attempts To Smear Protestors Against Israeli Govt. As Anti-Semetic*




Published on Oct 3, 2014
Air Date: October 3rd, 2014

Basically, CBS said that anyone who protests against Israel is an anti-Semitic Nazi. Yep, protests against gentiles are not racist, but protests against Jews or Israel must be racism. That's the hypocrisy and stupidity of the Democrat Party liberals, Republican Party Christians, and Jewish hypocrites.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




McDonald's junk food restaurant supports the Occupy Central protesters. Once again, the US government and corporations support chaotic regime change in other nations that disobey US commands. However, McDonald's did NOT support the protests or rebels at Occupy Wall Street, Ferguson, US shipping ports accepting Israeli cargo ships, Free Palestine flotilla, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Hong Kong McDonald's offers free tooth paste and meals for the Occupy Central protesters*
Hong Kong McDonald’s offers free tooth paste along with meals for the pro-democracy protesters ~ News Forage

. . . .

Meanwhile, a branch of McDonald's in Causeway Bay, a key venue of the protests, is offering free toothpaste with its meals for the protesters.

McDonald's said the protesters will receive a "good morning gift", costing about HK$8, with their meals.

"Get a refreshing 'good morning gift' when you choose any of these tasty Extra Value Breakfast Meals," a notice on the counter reads, according to the South China Morning Post.

The restaurant has been doing a roaring business, thanks to the Occupy and student protesters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## gambit

Europa said:


> View attachment 115918


Poor misguided soul...



TaiShang said:


> I will quote from Georg Lukacs (History and Class Consciousness: Studies in Marxist Dialectics):
> 
> *The US essentially lacks the elasticity for change as it is increasingly getting devoid of theory put in action because it is too much immersed in self-aggrandizement and exceptionalism.*
> 
> Yet, without praxis, man's perception of reality remains confined in the realm where social forms,
> “appear to be fixed, complete and immutable entities which can be manipulated and even comprehended, but never overthrown.”


In other words, the man is pissed that the majority of Americans are content with the current political system and have no desire to change to one that would deprive them of physical comforts, rights and freedoms they currently enjoy.


----------



## Snomannen

Viet said:


> thank you for the clarification.
> how are the opinions of the people in Macau?
> 
> 
> well, despite living here since ages I see Germany as a guest land, where I want to live and work for a period of time. my heart belongs to VN. No, I am not alien in my native country. I speak fluent vietnamese and visit my relatives when returning home.



Most of the people in Macau are politically apathetic.

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## FairAndUnbiased

tranquilium said:


> I am not sure why Gate's and Job's speeches are supposed to be counters. Gate's speech means university should focus more on hard science, but his speech by no means imply soft science is useless. Sure, if you stuff the company with nothing but hard science people, you may have a hard time, but as far as high tech company goes, hard science majors are still most posts will require.
> 
> 
> 
> Cao cao was a better leader than Sun Jian as far as running a kingdom goes. Though in a personal fight, Sun Jian would destroy Cao cao. The poor guy is barely over 140 cm in height.



High tech companies still employ more business majors, I believe.



cirr said:


> Strange you should be under the impression that I am from Jiangxi。
> 
> I hail from Beijing but live in Shanghai now a days。



Sorry, meant cnleio.


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## gambit

Europa said:


> just tell this to beidou, see how he reacts
> well, i shared his photo without his permission


Regardless of what he look like, he is still a poor misguided soul.


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## Viet

KirovAirship said:


> Most of the people in Macau are politically apathetic.


it may be a good thing. playing politics is like playing with fire, considering how quick the emperor can change the mood 
just keep sucking yuan from the mainlanders


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## tranquilium

Black Flag said:


> Hmmm, the problem with the "core principles" such as having a good and stable life, having basic needs satisfied, is that HK is a much more developed city than a lot of Western cities or even some western countries. In fact, I think HK is in the top 20% of the world when it comes to wealth, development and standard of living. Yet, some of the smaller and less developed countries in the lower rank (whether they are western or non-western) are relatively more stable. So I don't think it's the "core principles" and the state's ability to safe guard them that is the issue here.
> 
> I don't think it's about democracy either, as many people have already mentioned that HK never had such democracy under the British administration.
> 
> I don't think the size of a country plays any crucial factor either.... Thailand, Egypt, etc are bigger than a lot of Western countries.


I was referring to Thailand's case. Hong Kong's recent case is a different story. It is a small group of people backed by foreign influence. The key difference between Thailand and Hong Kong's case is that the former actually has political impact, the latter is a farce.



> I actually think the period from the middle ages to the western colonial age plays into the hand of countries with hard power. No soft power was necessary at that time. Just use hard power to take over other territories, and use hard power again to suppress any resistance. As long as they have hard power, they can treat their colony and subjects anyway they want, they can treat the colonised people as subhuman if they wanted to, and they did.


You would be surprised how much political maneuvering the ancients are capable of. Industrial revolution placed a cliff on the national strength between industrialized/unindustrialized country. The difference between industrial and agriculture also lay within the fact that much larger portion of the nation is boggled down in lands, thus can support a disproportionally larger army than their agricultural parts. By the time WWII ended, military industry also became so complex that countries require a powerful industry just to support all the equipment. Basically, it means the gap between nations are a lot smaller back then. As a result, alliances and political maneuvering becomes a lot more important. I mean, take US for example, it was able to invade Iraq and a number of other countries without support from allies. Even an alliance of small countries wouldn't be able to stand up to it. Back in the middle age this won't happen because even powerful empires of the Chinese has trouble supporting large amount of troops outside its border, let alone the likes of France or Holy Roman empire. Fractured and minor states like Iberian nations or England would have great difficulty sending a large army outside its border, let alone deploy it over a long period of time. (This is partially why the crusades would never yield lasting results)

And yeah, despite modern nations are much more capable of war. The brutality of in conquered land is better than the ancient times. Though I would like to avoid farther discussion on this particular issue, as it opens up a big can of worms.



> But I was talking about recent history, 30-40 years back until now. And obviously colonists doesn't exist anymore nor will it be possible now (neo-colonism would be a different matter). However, in recent history, alot of countries like I mentioned were and are still susceptible to unrest and turmoil.
> 
> The question was why? if problems of basic needs, political ideologies, democracy, economy are not the main issue, then what is? why are they susceptible while other western countries are not as susceptible?


Well, just because colony doesn't exist anymore, it doesn't mean a country is completely free from foreign influence. There are plenty of other ways to ruin the country, including but not limited to inciting riot, rebellion, installing puppet, economic sanction, financial attack, outright invasion, etc. Not to mention countries are completely capable of screwing up by themselves. I mean, just because modern nation are doing way better than the ancient nations, it doesn't mean modern nations are doing well all the time.

As for susceptibility of instability goes, I maintain my opinion that strength of the nation, especially the ability of the nation to control its various aspects such as fiance, military and production is the core strength. Take China, for example, it resisted the 1997 and 2008 financial crisis remarkably well because it maintain a strong control of its own finance while even countries like USA and EU members are hit hard by it.



> I mentioned that they do exists in Western countries, and that western countries do have programs like NSA, Patriotic acts, whatever. All countries have them. But their unrest is relatively minor compared to what happened to countries in the middle East, Ukraine, Thailand, etc.
> 
> You have to admit, there are more fear in such countries (including HK) of civil unrest than there is in Western countries. The govt's control on the media, foreign groups, etc, are less strict in the western countries. Yet, the average western civilians are less susceptible to unrest and protest than the civilians in the countries mentioned. My question was why?



Well, first of all I would like to point out nobody in HK or in the entire China actually "fear" the recent event will turn violent. In the past two years these groups has repeated demonstrated their remarkable lack of spine. Plus, large scale civil violence is really only triggered when basic living necessity of the general populace is threatened. So there is zero-chance the jokers will actually gather any real support. 
As for Ukraine, Middle East, that's another story entirely. Remember the supposed "Arabic spring in China" a few years ago? Even though it wrecked havoc in many middle eastern countries, it didn't even make a minor note in China. Ukraine has been on a downward slope ever since the dissolution of USSR. The recent Ukraine government got in through political coup, but then again this is just the latest in a long line of political coups in the countries since 1991. The only real difference is the recent batch of clowns managed to antagonize someone they couldn't handle. Also, do you know that Ukraine used to be a center of industry, research and economy back in USSR days, and one of the most developed region in Euroasia, but now it has less than half of the GDP per capita than China and males only have a life expectancy of 61.78 years?
I don't think I need to explain too much on the middle eastern countries. The place haven't seen a day of peace since the time of Ottoman empire, even then it is not exactly the most peaceful place on earth.
Basically, for Ukraine and Middle East, their problem is that threat to their fundamental living necessities are very real. For example, the Arabic spring is partially triggered by a severe food shortage in the region. Society would have a really hard time staying stable when it can't even support the basic needs of its people.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> High tech companies still employ more business majors, I believe.



I would like to see documents on it. My personally experience is with Siemens and vast majority of their stuff are engineers and technicians, but I never come across the actual statistics. If you can find some on the major companies I would really appreciate it.

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## Desertfalcon

Infra_Man99 said:


> You sound like a parrot: "Polly wants a cracker. Anti-Semitic Nazis. Polly wants a cracker. Anti-Semitic Nazis . . . " Now I see why you call yourself the "Desertfalcon". You have a bird brain filled with barren ideas. You're probably a fat, dumb piece of crap who uses patriotism to justify his hypocrisy and stupidity. You should be named the Dessert Sultan.
> 
> Here are more news about your beloved Israel, God's most valuable nation, or the nation that will rule over all inferior gentiles. See how Israel has been using tremendous American and European aid to commit crimes against humanity. Israel the parasitic warmonger is very lucky the US protects Israel at the UN.
> 
> According to a poll I previously provided, most of the world dislikes Israel. The US government boasts about its democracy. Israel boasts about its democracy. However, they only care about democracy when the majority votes to their advantage. When the majority votes to their disadvantage, then suddenly democracy does not matter anymore.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Israel eyes landfill site for Bedouin nomads*
> Israel eyes landfill site for Bedouin nomads| Reuters
> Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:04am EDT
> 
> . . . .
> 
> The Bedouin say they are being forced to forgo many aspects of their traditional way of life which relies on land, livestock and tents. All have been targets of Israeli restrictions.
> 
> "Our lifestyle relies on being able to move around, to live in dispersed tents on large plots of land and raise animals, which we love doing," said Mohammad Korshan, a resident of al-Khan al-Ahmar of the Jahalin Bedouin tribe.
> 
> "The Israeli authorities just don't understand our lifestyle," he added, sitting in his airy tent held up by wooden sticks, the rocky floor covered with a thick rug.
> 
> Israel says the camps are set up illegally without permits, and sometimes stand in the way of urban planning. In remoter parts of the occupied West Bank, the army evicts Bedouin it says are squatting inside live-firing ranges.
> 
> Critics say these are just excuses for land grabs.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> The stench of garbage floats over the Palestinian Bedouin village of al Jabal on the fringes of the Abu Dis landfill. Noisy rubbish trucks carrying waste from nearby Jerusalem incessantly dump their contents.
> 
> Around 1,050 Palestinian Jahalin Bedouins were forcibly moved here in the late 1990s from land now annexed to the Jewish settlement of Maale Adumim.
> 
> Once semi-nomadic herders, they were compensated through court orders for their move with cash, and electricity and water supplies. But their life as Bedouins ended as they had to sell off most of their livestock, residents say.
> 
> In 2006 Israel approved another plan to relocate some 20 other Bedouin communities -- about 2,400 Jahalin -- from the nearby rocky hills to a site even closer to the landfill.
> 
> "I would rather die than live in a closed-in area filled with garbage," said Daoud Jahalin, a resident of al-Khan al-Ahmar, one of the communities slated for relocation.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *High Court judge calls for U.S. to pardon Pollard*
> High Court judge calls for U.S. to pardon Pollard | The Ugly Truth
> 
> . . . .
> 
> Supreme Court Justice Elyakim Rubinstein [American Jew] has called for the U.S. authorities to pardon Jonathan Pollard [American & Israeli Jew], the American who famously pleaded guilty to spying for Israel in 1987.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> Pollard was arrested at the end of Lewis’ term in Israel, when Rubinstein was deputy ambassador in Washington from 1984 to 1986. Rubinstein was acting ambassador on November 21, 1985, when Pollard tried to drive into the Israeli Embassy parking lot, was turned back by Israeli guards and arrested by FBI agents.
> 
> Rubinstein did not know that Pollard was being operated as a spy by Rafi Eitan, head of the Bureau of Scientific Relations.
> 
> Rubinstein would later work for Pollard’s release, including when he was attorney general. Israeli presidents, prime ministers and ministers have shared in these efforts, most recently Benjamin Netanyahu at his meeting Wednesday with U.S. President Barack Obama.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *‘Ethnic cleansing for a better world’ — Richard Cohen says Palestinians brought the Nakba on themselves*
> 'Ethnic cleansing for a better world' -- Richard Cohen says Palestinians brought the Nakba on themselves
> October 1, 2014
> 
> . . . .
> 
> _Washington Post_ columnist Richard Cohen [American Jewish propagandist] says that the Palestinians are to blame for the Nakba, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 in which 750,000 Palestinians were expelled by or fled Zionist militias and were never allowed to return. In his new book _Israel: Is It Good for the Jews?_ Cohen says that by resisting the Zionist movement to take their lands, the Palestinians gave the Jewish immigrants, with their “advanced culture,” no choice but to force them from their homes.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Read the genocidal sermon a notable Atlanta rabbi gave this Rosh Hashanah*
> Read the genocidal sermon a notable Atlanta rabbi gave this Rosh Hashanah
> October 3, 2014
> 
> . . . .
> 
> Last Thursday Rabbi Shalom Lewis of Congregation Etz Chaim in the Atlanta suburb of Marietta, Georgia gave what can only be understood as a call to genocide in his Rosh Hashanah sermon to welcome in the Jewish new year. The sermon, republished in full below, calls for a war on Islam and Muslims worldwide. Lewis says a “holy crusade” against Islam is needed to”exterminate it utterly and absolutely.”
> 
> . . . .
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *CBS Attempts To Smear Protestors Against Israeli Govt. As Anti-Semetic*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Published on Oct 3, 2014
> Air Date: October 3rd, 2014
> 
> Basically, CBS said that anyone who protests against Israel is an anti-Semitic Nazi. Yep, protests against gentiles are not racist, but protests against Jews or Israel must be racism. That's the hypocrisy and stupidity of the Democrat Party liberals, Republican Party Christians, and Jewish hypocrites.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McDonald's junk food restaurant supports the Occupy Central protesters. Once again, the US government and corporations support chaotic regime change in other nations that disobey US commands. However, McDonald's did NOT support the protests or rebels at Occupy Wall Street, Ferguson, US shipping ports accepting Israeli cargo ships, Free Palestine flotilla, etc.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Hong Kong McDonald's offers free tooth paste and meals for the Occupy Central protesters*
> Hong Kong McDonald’s offers free tooth paste along with meals for the pro-democracy protesters ~ News Forage
> 
> . . . .
> 
> Meanwhile, a branch of McDonald's in Causeway Bay, a key venue of the protests, is offering free toothpaste with its meals for the protesters.
> 
> McDonald's said the protesters will receive a "good morning gift", costing about HK$8, with their meals.
> 
> "Get a refreshing 'good morning gift' when you choose any of these tasty Extra Value Breakfast Meals," a notice on the counter reads, according to the South China Morning Post.
> 
> The restaurant has been doing a roaring business, thanks to the Occupy and student protesters.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dude! Wow, talk about a fat dumb piece of crap! You've got waaaay too much time on your hands. I must have seriously gotten under your bored, stay at home, skin.  

If you actually bothered to look back through my posts on this board you would realize that my views on Israel are hardly as you paint them but then, you are too much of a complete jackass to realize that. 

Get a life, man. Or maybe go out with your skin-head friends and spray paint a synagogue...whatever you sad, pathetic little Nazis do to make you feel better.


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## key-CN

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Hunan is different. It was one of the original Warring Kingdoms, the State of Chu, along with Hubei and parts of Jiangxi, so it is part of the original Han bloodline of the central plains.


Hunan is also part of the Chu，


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## key-CN

Hong Kong to learn to adapt to these challenges as well .This will not be the last.


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## DingDong

This is phase one of many phases towards building up a mass revolution. China must be extremely wary because there was no central figure or leader behind these protests. This is not going to end so soon.


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## Steakhouse

1st off Hong Kong currently not being oppress by China. Government, Hong Kong enjoy more freedom compare to the mainland Chinese, Hong Kong economy wasn't in ruin after Hong Kong return to China. I don't think majority populace in Hong Kong support a prolong protest that can trigger a revolution to destroy Hong Kong economy since Hong Kong population still live under the democratic banner with freedom to granted according to the law. China government allow Hong Kong populace to vote for the candidate vetted by the elite in Hong Kong to ensure foreign power can't undermine China government and hurt China national interest with all the foreign agency can easily used money influence the candidate from the Hong Kong election, any rational thinker probably agree with China government decision because Hong Kong still under China's sovereignty. China government can't allow Hong Kong leader to destroy China by covert action from the outside influence.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Europa said:


> View attachment 115918
> 
> 
> see him there



Is this guy truly Beidou?


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## sahaliyan

I'm not northern Chinese neither southern Chinese,because I think these terms only for Han Chinese.
Anyway,I don't think northeast Chinese share many common things with people of northwest China(Gansu for example),even they are both northern Chinese,but the difference between northeastern Chinese and northwest Chinese as large as between northeast Chinese and southern Chinese
Also even the Manchus and Mongols are both Altaic speaking people,but they are different,the Manchus from southern Manchuria usally have long faces(the best example is the Aisin gioro family,people call this as horse face or 鞋拔子脸 said by Zhao Benshan),but the Mongols have big round faces(the best example the Genghiz Khan and Kublai Khan)
The northeast Chinese have many good qualities:brave,faithful,care for friends,loyal.But I think northeast Chinese also have some bad qualities,sometimes the northeastern people are not as hard working as other Chinese,and some northeast Chinese used by people as 打手，give bad reputation to northeast Chinese.

In the past,errenzhuan(二人转）was popular in countryside of northeast China,but in the city,the upper class don't watch,they watch Beijing Opera,and look down on errenzhuan,because it's too vulgar，but now errenzhuan became the represent of northeast culture,this is really a bad thin


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## Grand Historian

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Again, the southerners didn't have more Han DNA than the northerners.
> 
> The genetic continuation in the Central-North China is always very strong, and they didn't heavily mix with the Mongols and other Altaic tribes.
> 
> Ask this to @Grand Historian who is from Taiwan.


There's no such thing as Han or non Han DNA,belonging to a certain haplogroup doesn't make you Han.

The whole premise of Northern Han vs Southern Han is flawed,Sichuanese aren't the same as a Southern Fujianese,Cantonese don't view Shanghainese as the same and vice versa,Hakka are not Yunnan Han etc. likewise Northern China has its own divisions.

Different Han populations settled in Southern China at different times,with the Huainan and Jiangnan regions having the earliest migrations from Western Jin,while the fall of Tang and Northern Song contributed the heaviest to Fujian and Guangdong with Yunnan being Sinicized by the Ming while some areas of Hunan and Guangxi still contain a large minority that persists to this day.

Its pointless discussing whether modern day Southern Han or Northern Han(two very broad categories) have more Han ancestry,the original Han dynasty population was quite diverse and exhibited a wider amount of genotypes and phenotypes.

I have ancestry from Fuzhou,Putian,Quanzhou,Meixian,Shanghai and Taiwanese plains aborigines am I supposed to pick one and ignore the others?

In in the end it doesn't matter if what region of China you're from,if you identify as Han then you are Han.

Though some ethnicities would love to claim Han Chinese as their own because they have nothing to be proud of.

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## Europa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Is this guy truly Beidou?



snooping do wonders


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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> Regardless of what he look like, he is still a poor misguided soul.



He's got pictures of guys that killed a combined 100 million people. It's pathetic, to be honest...


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## Zsari

Black Flag said:


> In fact, any US citizens are free to establish their own political party and topple the current political power at the next election. And you can do so with the backing and support from foreign entities.
> 
> But the chances of you achieving this goal will likely be 0%, even when you're free to campaign as much as you want. I doubt you can even get any significant attention from the average Americans, let alone trigger a protest, etc.
> 
> On the other hand, it is illegal to establish a political power in HK to change the political system. Yet, some minor influences from outside force can trigger a large civil protest and unrest.



You should ask is there any outside forces with significant resource and a pool of supporting NGOs as well as media outlets that's backing opposition political parties in those "stable" countries. The US Nazi party in the 1930's did make a splash, and was taken down quickly by the government via its tax laws and propaganda campaign.

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## Zsari

Black Flag said:


> Hmmm, the problem with the "core principles" such as having a good and stable life, having basic needs satisfied, is that HK is a much more developed city than a lot of Western cities or even some western countries. In fact, I think HK is in the top 20% of the world when it comes to wealth, development and standard of living. Yet, some of the smaller and less developed countries in the lower rank (whether they are western or non-western) are relatively more stable. So I don't think it's the "core principles" and the state's ability to safe guard them that is the issue here.



HK being economically advanced is the major reason why the protest has basically fizzled out, that the majority there have no interest in rocking the boat. Hell, even the Occupy Wallstreet movement lasted much longer than that. It says to me that HK is rather stable politically. The fear of unrest are overplayed, and Beijing clearly sees that, choosing to take no action over the protest.

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## -1o1-

well that escalated quickly....


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## Zsari

gambit said:


> Yes, it would be fine for you to do so. You did not know that there is a Communist Party of the USA and that it used to be clandestinely financed by the Soviet Union and China ?



Which is why there were not one but two red scare, basically propaganda campaign to rid of the CP.

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## Snomannen

BoQ77 said:


> The movement is legal. Or the govt is powerless. or both



The government and HKP have been acting so nice to those riots, that's one thing for sure.

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## tranquilium

KirovAirship said:


> The government and HKP have been acting so nice to those riots, that's one thing for sure.


Isn't it, we should learn from Americans and Europeans and go in with fully armed personnel and armored vehicles.

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## Johny D

KirovAirship said:


> The government and *HKP have been acting so nice to those riots*, that's one thing for sure.



didnt read anything about riots in HK ...did you mean protests?


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## gambit

Zsari said:


> Which is why there were not one but two red scare, basically propaganda campaign to rid of the CP.


The CPUSA exists today. One of their recent conventions was held in capitalist New York City, of all places. So if the Chinese want to export their version of socialism to the US, feel free to do so. Persuasion, not force, and let the American public make up their own minds. If the Chinese failed, do not complain.


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## mike2000

Jeez i have said it several times before on here. In geo politics all actions are permitted, no matter how dirty/bad/unfair they might look. It doesn't matter whether its right or wrong, as long as your objectives are met. The end in this case, justifies the means.
As i said before, this is not just about China. Its the case with every established power and an upcoming power. Had it been say India, Brazil, Turkey or even Japan)) who was in China situation as an upcoming future rival/threat to U.S superpowerdom then they will be treated the same way(i.e using all available means to curtail them/slow them down) It has been the case for decades/centuries and will keep being so. It might not be too obvious/open like the battle between the U.S and U.S.S.R, but its still a competition to maintain supremacy/superpowerdom in the world. Afterall, who will like to share or give its number 1 position to another for free/without a tough fight? Nobody/country. So don't expect to have it without a fight(i'm not talking of a military one obviously).

So Chinese here should stop whinning and posting useless articles to justify that the U.S/U.K financed/influenced the protesters etc. Even if thats the case(i think it is indeed), then i still don't see anything wrong with it(geo politcally speaking). I will never say it enough, geo politics is not a clean game, and never will be, If you want a clean game then go be a doctor or go be a pastor(even though some are liars/cheat as well.lol). So when you become too big and try to challenge the established powers, then expect to learn how to play the game or perish like the Soviet Union

As for Japan, Just like my friend Leveraged buyout said earlier, it has nothing really to gain from supporting the protesters tbh. Moreover as i mentioned in my earlier post, Japan is still hated by the people of Hong Kong for historical issues and territorial disputes(they regularly send activists to the diaoyus islands etc), plus Japan has its own Okinawa issue which the Chinese can also exploit. So it will be adviceable for Japan to keep out of any hong Kong protests support or whatever, it has nothing to gain from it. 

Finally, i disagree with my good friend Leverage buyout point about: 'US foreign policy is values-based and reactionary, so all of the Russian and Chinese talk of deep manipulation is simple projection.' 

This couldn't be further from the truth if i understand what you mean by U.S foreign policy being value based and reactionary. U.S foreign policy is based on maintaining supremacy by all means possible, accompanied with divide and conquer(they learned it from us.) Moreover U.S foreign policy is more pro-active than reactive, Instead i will say its instead Russia and China foreign policy which is reactive since they tend to be on the defensive always. They are reduced to barely reacting to our moves since they are weaker and more vulnerable(not being a 'democracy') so they are susceptible to unrests(which we make use of to the maximum giving our 'democratic' credentials). If by value based you mean U.S foreign policy is based on spreading democractic values/principles then i must say im dissapointed in you my good friend. U.S foreign policy isnt value based at all( thought hey use it when needed to counter rival states/ennemy states), if they were we(U.S/west) wouldn't have as ally Saudi Arabia, GCC countries, etc.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> China still needs development, remember that it is still a developing nation, and not in par with the post industrial states, yet. So it makes sense for China to emphasize regional infrastructure projects. Also, the United States does not have to worry about a population of 1.3 billion people.



Exactly, he doesn't seem to understand that the U.S is already a developed country(China will need at least 4 decades to get to U.S living standards today, assuming it keeps growing as fast as it has during the past decades, which i think its unlikely). So the U.S can afford to overspend on its military adventures, since its backed by a huge military industrial complex, worlds most technologically advanced companies, big economy, and has a defacto world currency, plus strong allies/subordinates accros the globe. This is something China(and no other country in the world) has snd probably wont have for decades to come.

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## Zsari

gambit said:


> The CPUSA exists today. One of their recent conventions was held in capitalist New York City, of all places. So if the Chinese want to export their version of socialism to the US, feel free to do so. Persuasion, not force, and let the American public make up their own minds. If the Chinese failed, do not complain.



CPUSA is irrelevant today. If it ever become relevant, the US government will clamp down on it. It is the control of major media outlets and the infiltration of NGOs that will be far more important than funding some minor party.

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## Zsari

LeveragedBuyout said:


> I know that this has been mentioned before, but I don't see any upside to Japan issuing even the bland statement that it did. If the protestors are seen as pawns of outsiders, it undermines their cause. If the protestors are abandoned by outsiders, it creates feelings of bitterness.
> 
> Hong Kong, and even Xinjiang, is less of a threat to the CCP than protests in Wukan. As other articles have pointed out, mainlanders couldn't care less about HK complaints, because they are not perceived to entirely belong to the same nation, but the Wukan protests struck at the heart of everything that's wrong with the Chinese development model.



Japan doesn't exactly have a good reputation in HK. Any support from the Japanese government would only put the protesters at a more awkward position. And no, it is not that mainlander don't care about HK, but the protests today is directly targeting the mainlanders for majority of the grievance is the perceived infiltration and disruption by mainlanders into the HK society. It's hard to gain sympathy and support when you call people locust to start with.

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## gambit

Zsari said:


> CPUSA is irrelevant today. If it ever become relevant, the US government will clamp down on it. It is the control of major media outlets and the infiltration of NGOs that will be far more important than funding some minor party.


The CPUSA is the formal face of all anonymous socialists/communists that infiltrated assorted left wing political groups in the US. If the CPUSA is irrelevant it is thanks to the spectacular and ignoble collapse of the Soviet Union that convinced the American public of the failure of the ideology that the CPUSA stands for. But if the CPUSA is ever going to gain political momentum via popular support, there is nothing the US government can do about it.


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## Superboy

F-22Raptor said:


> He's got pictures of guys that killed a combined 100 million people. It's pathetic, to be honest...




Didn't stop population explosion, did they?

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## Zsari

gambit said:


> The CPUSA is the formal face of all anonymous socialists/communists that infiltrated assorted left wing political groups in the US. If the CPUSA is irrelevant it is thanks to the spectacular and ignoble collapse of the Soviet Union that convinced the American public of the failure of the ideology that the CPUSA stands for. But if the CPUSA is ever going to gain political momentum via popular support, there is nothing the US government can do about it.



Oh, there are alot of things the US government can do. Tax evasion anyone? Another red scare?

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## Superboy

gambit said:


> The CPUSA exists today. One of their recent conventions was held in capitalist New York City, of all places. So if the Chinese want to export their version of socialism to the US, feel free to do so. Persuasion, not force, and let the American public make up their own minds. If the Chinese failed, do not complain.




The US is hella socialist. I mean, half of the state of New York is Puerto Rican already. New York City is a quarter Jewish. The US is socialist and liberal, and allows gay marriage, and does not have capital punishment. Heck, even the president of America is a black dude. If America is not socialist, then why is it destroying itself? 

China will never, mark my words, NEVER be as liberal and socialist as America

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## Desertfalcon

Superboy said:


> The US is hella socialist. I mean, half of the state of New York is Puerto Rican already. New York City is a quarter Jewish. The US is socialist and liberal, and allows gay marriage. Heck, even the president of America is a black dude. If America is not socialist, then why is it destroying itself?
> 
> China will never, mark my words, NEVER be as liberal and socialist as America


Sounds odd coming from a Canadian. If we are as socialist as you say, then Canada is down-right...North Korea.


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## Superboy

Desertfalcon said:


> Sounds odd coming from a Canadian. If we are as socialist as you say, then Canada is down-right...North Korea.
> View attachment 117226




North Korea is totalitarian, not socialist. Canada is socialist, even more so than the US.

Belarus http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rus.svg/640px-Coat_of_arms_of_Belarus.svg.png

North Korea http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Emblem_of_North_Korea.svg

both totalitarian with that red star

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## Keel

F-22Raptor said:


> He's got pictures of guys that killed a combined 100 million people. It's pathetic, to be honest...



count the numbers: India throughout its history should have way surpassed the 100 million comfortably : The location of where the Greatest Tragedy of mankind has been happening and still counting.



gambit said:


> The CPUSA is the formal face of all anonymous socialists/communists that infiltrated assorted left wing political groups in the US. If the CPUSA is irrelevant it is thanks to the spectacular and ignoble collapse of the Soviet Union that convinced the American public of the failure of the ideology that the CPUSA stands for. But if the CPUSA is ever going to gain political momentum via popular support, there is nothing the US government can do about it.



China also has a democratic party
CPUSA is a convenient way for your agency (-ies) to track down the dissentiants. Saves a lot of snooping jobs.

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## Superboy

The US is a two party totalitarian society. Independents can theoretically win, but they have to be trillionaires to be able to compete with the two parties. Heck, only in Ukraine can bit rich oligarchs like Poroshenko, Kolomoisky get elected.

No independents in US politics RealClearPolitics - 2014 Election Maps - Battle for the Senate

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## Keel

Steakhouse said:


> 1st off Hong Kong currently not being oppress by China. Government, Hong Kong enjoy more freedom compare to the mainland Chinese, Hong Kong economy wasn't in ruin after Hong Kong return to China. I don't think majority populace in Hong Kong support a prolong protest that can trigger a revolution to destroy Hong Kong economy since Hong Kong population still live under the democratic banner with freedom to granted according to the law. China government allow Hong Kong populace to vote for the candidate vetted by the elite in Hong Kong to ensure foreign power can't undermine China government and hurt China national interest with all the foreign agency can easily used money influence the candidate from the Hong Kong election, any rational thinker probably agree with China government decision because Hong Kong still under China's sovereignty. China government can't allow Hong Kong leader to destroy China by covert action from the outside influence.



Correct.
Writings on the walls
The countries that stick their necks out supporting the rallying upon the happening of the event were the president of Taiwan - Ma YJ; USA's white house and UK's PM/DPM

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## Desertfalcon

Superboy said:


> North Korea is totalitarian, not socialist. Canada is socialist, even more so than the US.


Lets be fair, except for the odd-ball country like North Korea, no country is really _socialist_ and there hasn't really been any for a long time. What _has_ happened is that people have redefined what socialism is in order to grind their own political axe. Go to Vancouver or Seattle or Los Angeles or NYC or Toronto and you will see private industry after private industry, after private industry. You will see private homes and private property. You will also see things like government regulations, mandated environmental policies, mandated health care, labor laws, etc., but those are not _socialism. _They are what guard against many of the excesses of a purely free market. I am a conservative politically in my country, but it's like a tell the Tea Party types in my own party, _"It's really easy being a libertarian and shouting SOCIALISM! at the government....when you live in a country where every single tap you turn on, clean healthy drinking water comes out and you guys think magical fairy dust causes it."_ I don't know about you, but when I take my medications, or drink out of the tap, or get on an airplane and see that American flag on the tail, I feel pretty good about the degree of "socialism" we have. Doesn't mean I don't think regulations and mandates shouldn't be sensible and be necessary, but I most certainly don't want to live in a truly non-"socialist" libertarian society where drinking tap water or getting on an airliner, is playing Russian roulette with you life.


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## LeveragedBuyout

mike2000 said:


> Finally, i disagree with my good friend Leverage buyout point about: 'US foreign policy is values-based and reactionary, so all of the Russian and Chinese talk of deep manipulation is simple projection.'
> 
> This couldn't be further from the truth if i understand what you mean by U.S foreign policy being value based and reactionary. U.S foreign policy is based on maintaining supremacy by all means possible, accompanied with divide and conquer(they learned it from us.) Moreover U.S foreign policy is more pro-active than reactive, Instead i will say its instead Russia and China foreign policy which is reactive since they tend to be on the defensive always. They are reduced to barely reacting to our moves since they are weaker and more vulnerable(not being a 'democracy') so they are susceptible to unrests(which we make use of to the maximum giving our 'democratic' credentials). If by value based you mean U.S foreign policy is based on spreading democractic values/principles then i must say im dissapointed in you my good friend. U.S foreign policy isnt value based at all( thought hey use it when needed to counter rival states/ennemy states), if they were we(U.S/west) wouldn't have as ally Saudi Arabia, GCC countries, etc.



I'm trying to think of an example where the US initiated action against the USSR, and I am coming up blank. Korea was a reaction to the spread of Communism, the 1953 Iranian coup was in reaction to the oil nationalization, Vietnam was a reaction to the spread of Communism, Bay of Pigs/Cuban Missile Crisis was a reaction to the spread of Communism and the Soviet military threat, the alliance with Israel was in reaction to Soviet domination of the Middle East, the Dominican Republic was in reaction to the revolution there and to prevent the spread of Communism, Grenada was in reaction to a leftist coup, Panama was in reaction to the threat against free passage through the canal, Iraq was in response to Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and threatening posture towards KSA, Afghanistan was in reaction to 9/11, and Iraq was... I still don't know.

Did I miss anything? Perhaps I overlooked a few "small wars." Please tell me how I'm wrong, and how the US was actually the pro-active initiator of conflict in those cases.

As far as values-based, what I mean by that is that we still interfere where we have no strategic interest, but cannot tolerate atrocities, such as Somalia and Bosnia (Rwanda will forever be our shame). Where we do have a strategic interest, we work where we can to install our value system (e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan), so long as it does not interfere with our strategic interests (e.g. our alliance with the military dictatorships of South Korea). But strategic interest has always had primacy over the values system, as far as I am aware. I welcome any counter-examples you can provide.

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## Desertfalcon

Superboy said:


> The US is a two party totalitarian society. Independents can theoretically win, but they have to be trillionaires to be able to compete with the two parties. Heck, only in Ukraine can bit rich oligarchs like Poroshenko, Kolomoisky get elected.
> 
> No independents in US politics RealClearPolitics - 2014 Election Maps - Battle for the Senate


IOW, we have a basically two or three party system, kinda' like....Canada, the UK, France, Australia, Germany, Greece, Spain, Mexico, Colombia, Chile, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, etc., etc., etc.

Even in democracies with multi-parties, they often join into coalitions, that basically break into a two party, left-of-center, right-of-center, split. It isn't corruption that causes it. It's because most voters in most real democracies, are fairly moderate and parties try to make the most of whichever side of "center" they are on. And as in the USA, the _reason_ why third parties don’t do well or raise much money...is because the American people don't donate to them nor vote for them. They yell, _"corruption!"_ when really, it is just frustration that they can't get many people to vote for them. They are always on the ballot. In my state, like almost every other in the last national election, I had a choice of about 9 different parties to vote for. I voted for the Republican Party, just like I always do, just like most Americans do for either them, or the Democrats. Just as in the UK, most will either vote Conservative, Liberal, or Labour. In Germany, SD or CD, and so on.


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## tranquilium

Desertfalcon said:


> Lets be fair, except for the odd-ball country like North Korea, no country is really _socialist_ and there hasn't really been any for a long time. What _has_ happened is that people have redefined what socialism is in order to grind their own political axe. Go to Vancouver or Seattle or Los Angeles or NYC or Toronto and you will see private industry after private industry, after private industry. You will see private homes and private property. You will also see things like government regulations, mandated environmental policies, mandated health care, labor laws, etc., but those are not _socialism. _They are what guard against many of the excesses of a purely free market. I am a conservative politically in my country, but it's like a tell the Tea Party types in my own party, _"It's really easy being a libertarian and shouting SOCIALISM! at the government....when you live in a country where every single tap you turn on, clean healthy drinking water comes out and you guys think magical fairy dust causes it."_ I don't know about you, but when I take my medications, or drink out of the tap, or get on an airplane and see that American flag on the tail, I feel pretty good about the degree of "socialism" we have. Doesn't mean I don't think regulations and mandates shouldn't be sensible and be necessary, but I most certainly don't want to live in a truly non-"socialist" libertarian society where drinking tap water or getting on an airliner, is playing Russian roulette with you life.



Well, in the long run, human society is continuously advancing and political models advances along with everything else. Vast majority of the nations today don't really follow the 18th century capitalism or socialism model. In general, they take a form of government that has elements from both school of thought.

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## Desertfalcon

tranquilium said:


> Well, in the long run, human society is continuously advancing and political models advances along with everything else. Vast majority of the nations today don't really follow the 18th century capitalism or socialism model. In general, they take a form of government that has elements from both school of thought.


Exactly.


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## Aepsilons

@LeveragedBuyout , @mike2000 , @TaiShang, @Chinese-Dragon et al,

Perhaps what we can do, as students of geopolitics, is to list out the points that these Hong Kong protesters find disconcerting with the Central Government. And then, we can juxtapose these to the policies of the Central Government, listing and identifying its resolution of said grievances.

From my reading of the Chinese members here and their reaction to the protests in HK, its more or less condemning the protesters as traitors and worthy of some kind of hardline response. Hardly worthy of intellectual, academic discourse. Let's change this around and discuss this, point by point. I'm listing you guys because of your background(s) and the high quality as fair nature.

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## gambit

Zsari said:


> Oh, there are alot of things the US government can do. Tax evasion anyone? Another red scare?


You are straining here. Noam Chomsky is essentially a communist and look at him throughout the yrs -- a millionaire.


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## bolo

Zsari said:


> Which is why there were not one but two red scare, basically propaganda campaign to rid of the CP.


Red Scare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## TaiShang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @LeveragedBuyout , @mike2000 , @TaiShang, @Chinese-Dragon et al,
> 
> Perhaps what we can do, as students of geopolitics, is to list out the points that these Hong Kong protesters find disconcerting with the Central Government. And then, we can juxtapose these to the policies of the Central Government, listing and identifying its resolution of said grievances.
> 
> From my reading of the Chinese members here and their reaction to the protests in HK, its more or less condemning the protesters as traitors and worthy of some kind of hardline response. Hardly worthy of intellectual, academic discourse. Let's change this around and discuss this, point by point. I'm listing you guys because of your background(s) and the high quality as fair nature.



Although the protesters failed to develop a clear, comprehensive political agenda other than throwing out some abstract ideas such as democracy (which could come in any form) and freedom, at the core of their demand, as it seems, lays the desire to elect their chief with no direct/indirect intervention from Beijing.

I did not hear or read them chanting: "We are hungry; cannot feed our kids," or "we need public housing and affordable education," or "we want universal healthcare," etc. Their protest is of geopolitical nature given that they demand Beijing to hand off Hong Kong. *This is interesting given the fact that HK is among the most unequal in terms of income per capita among the developed countries/regions. *

Essentially, they question and challenge Beijing's sovereignty over Hong Kong. You can't simply demand the central government to cast off all the political control over a province. Beijing is a highly decentralized capital already with local governments enjoying greater say over their immediate affairs, granting more than that may lead to de facto separatism.

As a province of China, Hong Kong will have to be content with whether they indirectly elect their chief or Beijing simply appoints a governor. But, today, a certain group of Hong Kong residents seem to enjoy a degree of autonomy that they do not deserve at all.

This One Country Two Systems model is a farce, in my view. Just repeal it step by step and the problem is solved. To begin with, China should have a full control over Hong Kong's immigration matters. The immigration laws and procedures must be unified with the rest of the country.

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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> Although the protesters failed to develop a clear, comprehensive political agenda other than throwing out some abstract ideas such as democracy (which could come in any form) and freedom, at the core of their demand, as it seems, lays the desire to elect their chief with no direct/indirect intervention from Beijing.
> 
> I did not hear or read them chanting: "We are hungry; cannot feed our kids," or "we need public housing and affordable education," or "we want universal healthcare," etc. Their protest is of geopolitical nature given that they demand Beijing to hand off Hong Kong.
> 
> Essentially, they question and challenge Beijing's sovereignty over Hong Kong. You can simply deny the central government to cast off all the political control over a province. Beijing is a highly decentralized capital already with central government enjoying greater say over their immediate affairs, granting more than that may lead to de facto separatism.
> 
> As a province of China, Hong Kong will have to be content with whether they indirectly elect their chief or Beijing simply appoints a governor. But, today, a certain group of Hong Kong residents seems to enjoy a degree of autonomy that they do not deserve at all.
> 
> This One Country Two Systems model is a farce, in my view. Just repeal it step by step and the problem is solved. To begin with, China should have a full control over Hong Kong's immigration matters. The immigration laws and procedures must be unified with the rest of the country.


Time to clean house and get rid of foreigners who are really spies sowing seeds od discord


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## TaiShang

bolo said:


> Time to clean house and get rid of foreigners who are really spies sowing seeds od discord



Indeed. That's basically why I would like to see all the immigration control privileges of Hong Kong to be relegated back to China.


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## AgentOrange

BoQ77 said:


> The movement is legal. Or the govt is powerless. or both



More like, the movement is powerless and has fizzled out. Or the government is so powerful they literally didn't have to spend a single penny before the movement died on its own. Or both.

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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> Indeed. That's basically why I would like to see all the immigration control privileges of Hong Kong to be relegated back to China.


I'm just surprised China allow HK the freedom to dictate immigration.


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## TaiShang

bolo said:


> I'm just surprised China allow HK the freedom to dictate immigration.



If nothing else, that sort of compromises China's sovereignty. If China controls HK's immigration system, it can also control who gets in and out. Then it is easier to weed out the undesirables such as Indians and other Western types that showed up as provocateurs during the protests.

OC-TS is a farce, I repeat. It must be reformed drastically.

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## BoQ77

Nice people act gently. And you call that movement died.


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## senheiser

Protests have been going on in Hong Kong for some time now over allegations that the Chinese government is subverting democracy. According to the media working class people have taken to the streets demanding an end to this unfair practice. The reality of the situation is more complicated than the Western media is making it look.

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## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> Nice people act gently. And you call that movement died.


Those stupid protesters damage the interest of the majority HK people . 

Those cocks have a fantasy that HK people are sufferring a horriable life and they will get great respone once they start to protest.

The majority people can not tolerate those cockes just 1 week later after they start to protest.

We even do not need police,normal civilians already start to beat up your so called gentle protesters hardly.

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## AgentOrange

BoQ77 said:


> Nice people act gently. And you call that movement died.



There were 100,000 protesters at the peak of the movement. Now there are a few hundred. The movement's dead. Even Western media outlets are admitting as much. Only in deluded Vietnam would an utter and catastrophic defeat be spun as a victory. 

Speaking of Vietnam....we are all touched that you, a Viet, have that "support Hong Kong democracy" ribbon as your avatar. China cherishes it's one country, two systems arrangement where Hong Kongers are allowed to protest peacefully. That's why the central government in Beijing didn't do anything when those Hong Kong kids protested, as misled as they were. The Chinese government appreciates your support as well. 

I wonder though, why don't you support Vietnamese democracy? Why do you hate your own country so much that you're willing to struggle for democracy in Hong Kong while the Vietnamese people are slave coolies under a corrupt Commie dictatorship with low living standards and the most malnourished children in SE Asia? Why don't you care that your own people are ruled by a cowardly government that can't even defend their territorial waters against an unarmed Chinese oil rig? 

Why do you hate your own country, Vietnam so much that you don't care about your oppressed brothers and sisters? Don't Vietnamese people deserve democracy?

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## SRBM2

They will trie the same crap they did in Lybia,Syria and now Ukraine. When China uses police they will try to shoot on police and demonstrants to start violance in same manner like they did in the countries whch already listed. USrael brings only pain,slavery and wars.


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## TaiShang

Good question: Since when the students and the elites are on the same page?


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## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> Those stupid protesters damage the interest of the majority HK people .
> 
> Those cocks have a fantasy that HK people are sufferring a horriable life and they will get great respone once they start to protest.
> 
> The majority people can not tolerate those cockes just 1 week later after they start to protest.
> 
> We even do not need police,normal civilians already start to beat up your so called gentle protesters hardly.



Do you live their life? Are you a HKer ? Not? then you are in different system from theirs.



AgentOrange said:


> There were 100,000 protesters at the peak of the movement. Now there are a few hundred. The movement's dead. Even Western media outlets are admitting as much. Only in deluded Vietnam would an utter and catastrophic defeat be spun as a victory.
> 
> Speaking of Vietnam....we are all touched that you, a Viet, have that "support Hong Kong democracy" ribbon as your avatar. China cherishes it's one country, two systems arrangement where Hong Kongers are allowed to protest peacefully. That's why the central government in Beijing didn't do anything when those Hong Kong kids protested, as misled as they were. The Chinese government appreciates your support as well.
> 
> I wonder though, why don't you support Vietnamese democracy? Why do you hate your own country so much that you're willing to struggle for democracy in Hong Kong while the Vietnamese people are slave coolies under a corrupt Commie dictatorship with low living standards and the most malnourished children in SE Asia? Why don't you care that your own people are ruled by a cowardly government that can't even defend their territorial waters against an unarmed Chinese oil rig?
> 
> Why do you hate your own country, Vietnam so much that you don't care about your oppressed brothers and sisters? Don't Vietnamese people deserve democracy?



I support Vietnamese democracy too. Our congressman hurry up to approve the protest right at this moment. Let congrat


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## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> Do you live their life? Are you a HKer ? Not? then you are in different system from theirs.


I do not need to be a HKer. 

The majority HK people's action already tells me they do not like those protesters.

If they really do not have a good life , they will join the protest team but not beat up those protesters hardly

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## BoQ77

Kyle Sun said:


> I do not need to be a HKer.
> 
> The majority HK people's action already tells me they do not like those protesters.
> 
> If they really do not have a good life , they will join the protest team but not beat up those protesters hardly



Do you mean anti-protest ? Several of them funded by China central govt.
Without revolution, you know, there's no PRC.


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## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> Do you mean anti-protest ? Several of them funded by China central govt.
> Without revolution, you know, there's no PRC.


Yeah , now you are the Snowdon, you know the anti-protest is funded by China .

Can you tell me are the protesters funded by US or some other GOV ?

How many anti-protesters ? Are they all funded by CN GV ?


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## terranMarine

If only Deng could see what has become of this one country two systems model. Does this system applies to Macau as well? If so it only worked there and not for HK because of British/American influence. Just look at that group waving the colonial British flag

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## BoQ77

When China could live peacefully with Hongkong democracy?


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## Kolaps

Vietnamese hates democracy.

They willingly to die to refuse Christian president of the south for the sake of Atheist.

Vietnamese need to learn a lot from Taiwan.


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## BoQ77

Communism parties should fear the same revolution. Vietnam and China.
But over 90% of Vietnamese is not communism. Why we must fear ?

Actually, Vietnamese communism party tend to open more to democracy.
Yes. we could do that way, how about you?


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## BoQ77

Kolaps said:


> Vietnamese hates democracy.
> 
> They willingly to die to refuse Christian president of the south for the sake of Atheist.
> 
> Vietnamese need to learn a lot from Taiwan.



that Christian president not aim for democracy and human right.
You misunderstanded about religious and democracy,


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## AgentOrange

Viet trolls who aren't brave enough to stand up for the freedom of their own people have no credibility.



BoQ77 said:


> Do you live their life? Are you a HKer ? Not? then you are in different system from theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> I support Vietnamese democracy too. Our congressman hurry up to approve the protest right at this moment. Let congrat



No proof. As usual.

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## BoQ77

AgentOrange said:


> Viet trolls who aren't brave enough to stand up for the freedom of their own people .



You couldn't say so linked to August Revolution 1945, Vietnam War, Sino Vietnam conflict.


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## Zsari

gambit said:


> You are straining here. Noam Chomsky is essentially a communist and look at him throughout the yrs -- a millionaire.



Who said anything about Noam Chomsky? Did he invented the red scare? US government have a track record of prosecution against "undesirable" group via its tax code. You don't need Noam Chomsky to tell you that, do you?

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## key-CN

Socialism should be a second stage of development of the entire human race，There is no socialism formed on Earth to reach the human environment.All current similar products that socialism is the cottage.This is difficult to articulate .Maybe go to the extreme of capitalism will transition to socialism ?


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## Raphael

What gives the UK the right to involve itself in Hong Kong? | The National

The pro-democracy demonstrations on the streets of Hong Kong have gone on for just under two weeks now, and though the crowds have thinned, many remain determined to stay for as long as they can to make their point.

Millions around the world have great sympathy for their demand that when the promised universal suffrage is implemented in 2017, it should be genuinely open, and that candidates for the post of chief executive should not be vetted by Beijing.

America and Britain, among the noisiest nations when it comes to trumpeting the virtues of liberal democracy, have in this case, however, been notably quiet.

“We do not take sides in the discussion of Hong Kong’s political development,” read an uncharacteristically timid statement issued by the local US consulate, “nor do we support any particular individuals or groups involved in it.”

The UK has done little more. A Wall Street Journal op-ed accused prime minister David Cameron of “subcontracting” the issue to his deputy, Nick Clegg, who summoned the Chinese ambassador to convey his “dismay and alarm”.

While Mr Cameron has said that he is “very concerned”, and urged the Chinese government to stick to the terms of the 1984 Sino-British Joint Declaration on Hong Kong’s future that was supposed to guarantee the territory’s system of freedoms and governance until 2047, these responses have given scant comfort to the protesters.

Quite the opposite: Martin Lee, a QC and a leading pro-democracy campaigner, accused Mr Cameron of selling his Hong Kong compatriots “down the river for 30 pieces of silver”, and Anson Chan, a former chief secretary to the Hong Kong government, condemned Britain’s “weak words that have sometimes been worse than silence”.

Past British assurances that Britain would defend Hong Kong’s freedoms were understood to mean that London would adopt a rather more muscular approach should these liberties be under threat.

The anger of the pro-democracy advocates is understandable. But so, to a degree, is China’s insistence that this is an internal matter and not the business of foreign governments at all.

Look at it from a different perspective: why in the first place should the UK have the right to interfere in the affairs of a city-state on the other side of the globe?

The answer is that Hong Kong was ceded to Britain in 1842 after the First Opium War, with Kowloon added in 1860, and remained a colony until 1997, when the 99 year lease on the New Territories area ran out. The original treaties were forced on a weak China by an aggressively expanding empire. The lands were the fruits of conquest, in other words.

The argument that Britain has special privileges over past possessions is one perhaps best avoided. For if that were really the case, what about other countries?

Does it follow that Turkey has an oversight role in Basra, Athens and Belgrade because they were all once under Ottoman rule? The further back you go, the more absurd it becomes.

Perhaps France should have a special say in the English legal system; the country was, after all, originally conquered by a vassal of the French king, the Duke of Normandy (in 1066, but never mind).

Neither should the passing of over two millennia lead us to forget the claims of the heirs to the Carthaginian Empire, under which Tunisia presumably has some vestige of suzerainty over Corsica.

At a more serious level, if this principle of special interests were to stand, it would more than justify Vladimir Putin’s activities in Ukraine and other countries that Russia regards as being its “near abroad” – not an outcome desired by those who think Britain should be involving itself more deeply in Hong Kong’s electoral process.

Ah, it will be said: this is not about privileges but obligations. If Britain was always so concerned about the growth of democracy in Hong Kong, however, then why did it never allow universal suffrage during its own long governance? It managed to hold a general election in what was then the nearby British colony of Malaya, for instance, in 1955. But there was no move to do the same in Hong Kong in the following 42 years.

And if the departing colonial power really did feel a sense of duty to its former subjects, there was one thing it could have done: offered to give the 3.25 million Chinese who held British passports the right to settle in the UK after the handover. This was the position argued by the former Liberal Democrat leader Paddy Ashdown, but his principled stand was echoed by few others. Obligation, it seems, only goes so far.

The fact is that Hong Kong is a part of China, and Beijing’s rules apply. (Incidentally, it is worth bearing in mind that the pro-Beijing camp insists that its proposed way to elect the chief executive does not flout the relevant part of the Basic Law, which refers to a “broadly representative nominating committee”. )

China’s demand that other countries not meddle in its own regions is often viewed as a request to turn away while dissenters and pro-democratic movements are suppressed. That is one interpretation, and there may well be truth in it. But it is also a demand made by plenty of other countries in good standing. What an uproar there would be if China started weighing in on Catalonian wishes for independence from Spain, or the plight of the Kurdish or Alevi minorities in Turkey. The silence of the Western democracies may seem shameful, but it may have been the only practical course. As for Britain: it did nothing for Hong Kong when it could have done. Please now spare us the crocodile tears.

------------------------------------------------


UAE journalism should be contrasted with Qatari journalism (i.e. Al-Jazeera). The former is objective and fact-based, but the latter is extremist, propagandistic and supports terrorism.

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## jkroo

Maybe they think that's look cool.


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## Kolaps

The only UK can do is to ask protesters to respect the Basic Law.


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## ito

UK should mind its own business than involve itself in other people business

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## Hamartia Antidote

Whoever pays off the Triad (underground society) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia wins.


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## mike2000

Lool i thought some Chinese members here said we have no influence over Hong Kong, only the U.S does?
He doesn't know that we have wayyy more influence in Hong Kong than even our former child the U.S.

Anway coming back to topic, Nothing gives us the right to get involve in U.K affairs, but we do nonettheless, because its geo politics. You try to gain as much leverage as you can from something in other to be able to bargain better in another aspect during negotiations with your adversary. I have already said it before, i dont know why Chinese members here, keep whinning about our/U.S involvement. Its geo politics and that's howit goes, whether you like it or not, if you are weak can't act as we do, then you have only yourself to blame not us. As i said before, cry for your weakness not for others strength.
Anyway i won't repaet myself too much, i already discuss this alot in a similar threat on here. So in short, we will keep getting involve becasue we can and its serve our interests. 
Note im talking about our government not me personally, of course i dont have anything to do with it, couldn't care less about what happens to a nation that is farrr way from me at the other corner of the world.


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## Beidou2020

Close down the British embassy/consulate in Hong Kong and kick out any British individual/organization/company/media that engages in anti-China activities.

Britain is a weak and irrelevant country, no needed to give it any respect whatsoever.

Their economy is tiny, their military is beyond a joke, they have little to no political power.

Britain is not a global power, its barely a regional power.

China should swat that insignificant country aside like a fly

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## TaiShang

Peter C said:


> Whoever pays off the Triad (underground society) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia wins.



Just like whoever pays off the US Congress ultimately wins.

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## Hamartia Antidote

TaiShang said:


> Just like whoever pays off the US Congress ultimately wins.



Hong Kong legislator says government using triads against protesters | World news | theguardian.com


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## TaiShang

*Revolving Door: Former Members of the 112th Congress*

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## Hamartia Antidote

Corruption in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China Corruption Crackdown Leads To Rash Of Suicides Amongst Communist Party Officials


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## vietnamese_sausage

if vietnam has china's military we vietnamese would rule east asia. china does not know how to exert power like us. we easily can take over all of mekong delta now in our state. 
china is like a paper origami dragon.


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## terranMarine

vietnamese_sausage said:


> if vietnam has china's military we vietnamese would rule east asia. china does not know how to exert power like us. we easily can take over all of mekong delta now in our state.
> china is like a paper origami dragon.


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## Beidou2020

US calls bribery as 'lobbying'.
China calls bribery as corruption.

US has legalised corruption. US is without a shadow of a doubt the most corrupt developed country on earth.

There is more differences inside the communist party of China between different factions than there is between the Republicans and Democratic parties in the US.

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## TaiShang

US corruption is systemic. Hence cannot be prevented or reformed without a deep change in the political culture. But, take out the money factor in the US politics, you will end up with chaos and anarchy. Money and private interests are what keep the system running.

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> US corruption is systemic. Hence cannot be prevented or reformed without a deep change in the political culture. But, take out the money factor in the US politics, you will end up with chaos and anarchy. Money and private interests are what keep the system running.



Exactly.

The American regime knows its vulnerability, so it uses its vast propaganda machine to drive up jingoism and brainwash its people about foreign 'threats'.
That's all to distract the population from the staggering corruption in US politics and keep the system running as you said.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> US calls bribery as 'lobbying'.
> 
> US has legalised corruption. US is without a shadow of a doubt the most corrupt developed country on earth.



Please back this up with say a comparison with China. I can say "China is easily the most corrupt government that ever existed in the history of the universe."....and not back it up.

You are just going off due to my Triad thing.


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## TaiShang

I hope your thing is true.

There is also Iron Triangles?


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## sicsheep

mike2000 said:


> Lool i thought some Chinese members here said we have no influence over Hong Kong, only the U.S does?
> 
> He doesn't know that we have wayyy more influence in Hong Kong than even our former child the U.S.
> Anway coming back to topic, Nothing gives us the right to get involve in U.K affairs, but we do nonettheless, because its geo politics. You try to gain as much leverage as you can from something in other to be able to bargain better in another aspect during negotiations with your adversary. I have already said it before, i dont know why Chinese members here, keep whinning about our/U.S involvement. Its geo politics and that's howit goes, whether you like it or not, if you are weak can't act as we do, then you have only yourself to blame not us. As i said before, cry for your weakness not for others strength.
> Anyway i won't repaet myself too much, i already discuss this alot in a similar threat on here. So in short, we will keep getting involve becasue we can and its serve our interests.
> Note im talking about our government not me personally, of course i dont have anything to do with it, couldn't care less about what happens to a nation that is farrr way from me at the other corner of the world.



well it doesnt really matter now, seeing how you are influenced by your former child 
( after stripped all your colonies and commonwealth, and technologies. ) 
You do nonetheless because UK is struggling to matter in world politics, most of your former children play a larger role now in geopolitics anyways, we honestly don't care about your influence in Hong Kong that much just as India and Pakistan don't care that much.


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## Beidou2020

*Hong Kong protest leader Benny Tai is sponsored by US NGO 'National Democratic Institution'*


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## Beidou2020

I support the crushing of these protests.

Worthless bunch of filth.


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## rashid.sarwar

So why china is allowing such NGO.....


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## Beidou2020

rashid.sarwar said:


> So why china is allowing such NGO.....



Spineless leaders running China now. 

Mao would never allow such things inside China.

CPC will one day regret ever allowing Western NGOs inside China. They are planting the seeds of their own demise.

I said these NGO's will cause trouble in China one day, and I was 100% correct. 
If China don't kick these NGOs out, then the CPC itself will fall eventually.

I'm smarter than the CPC and their advisors. Why can I see the role of NGO's but the CPC and MSS can't?
Why spend all those billions on internal security when they can't even stop an NGO from doing this?
Wastage of money.

West is so dominant because the non-West is utterly brainless. No common sense.
Bunch of fools allowing anti-China Western NGO's, Western missionaries, Western media, Western companies (Google) to run rampant inside China.


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## opruh

sad to say UK is irrelevant in world politics now


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## liall

Colonial mindset. They think they still own the world. They need a good spank to their butt


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## Beidou2020

I would get rid of Leung and put a hawkish military general from the PLA as chief executive of Hong Kong.

Leung is weak and spineless letting anti-China Western activity inside China.


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## terranMarine

Well exercising influence on a once colonial city these days does not have a strong impact on a country such as China. Disrupting normal daily life in HK does not harm Mainland's stability/politically/economically as we have seen. In fact a large majority of the locals condemned the student protest lol. Some people think they can recreate 1989 Beijing protest 
Cameron was even about to lose control of Scotland staying inside the UK


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## rashid.sarwar

Beidou2020 said:


> Spineless leaders running China now.
> 
> Mao would never allow such things inside China.
> 
> CPC will one day regret ever allowing Western NGOs inside China. They are planting the seeds of their own demise.
> 
> I said these NGO's will cause trouble in China one day, and I was 100% correct.
> If China don't kick these NGOs out, then the CPC itself will fall eventually.
> 
> I'm smarter than the CPC and their advisors. Why can I see the role of NGO's but the CPC and MSS can't?
> Why spend all those billions on internal security when they can't even stop an NGO from doing this?
> Wastage of money.
> 
> West is so dominant because the non-West is utterly brainless. No common sense.
> Bunch of fools allowing anti-China Western NGO's, Western missionaries, Western media, Western companies (Google) to run rampant inside China.



Most of spy ring in Pakistan is run by NGO. One part of the NGO is to control media. That is why we see the media working against the interest of Pakistan. I think china must have learn't it by now. No one is paying for free or giving money for free. Every NGO has it own agenda when the enter the country. 

Kick every NGO out of the country. China and HK has it own resources.

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## mike2000

liall said:


> Colonial mindset. They think they still own the world. They need a good spank to their butt


and who is going to give us that spank?


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## mike2000

sicsheep said:


> well it doesnt really matter now, seeing how you are influenced by your former child
> ( after stripped all your colonies and commonwealth, and technologies. )
> You do nonetheless because UK is struggling to matter in world politics, most of your former children play a larger role now in geopolitics anyways, we honestly don't care about your influence in Hong Kong that much just as India and Pakistan don't care that much.



we have way more influence than almost every country in the world bar the U.S . In fact we punch way above our weight in the world. We are involve in almost every hot spots in the world. We have more influence than even a country like Japan even though it has a way more larger economy than we do.. Moreover we have a language that is still spoken all over the world as a dafacto world language., we also have the best universities/educational institutions in the world(many Chinese, Indians, Russians etc wealthy/corrupt offcials still send their kids here for studies/live a better life.), plus we have one of the best/if not best banking/financial industry in the world. We still are a leading country technologically speaking, In fact we can help China and India develop a better engine(which they are still strugling to do, India case is even worse.) if they ask nicely, note that our Rolls Royce engines are used all over the world even by the U.S since they themselves know how reliable they are. So dont underestimate our influence/reach.


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## jkroo

Beidou2020 said:


> Spineless leaders running China now.
> 
> Mao would never allow such things inside China.
> 
> CPC will one day regret ever allowing Western NGOs inside China. They are planting the seeds of their own demise.
> 
> I said these NGO's will cause trouble in China one day, and I was 100% correct.
> If China don't kick these NGOs out, then the CPC itself will fall eventually.
> 
> I'm smarter than the CPC and their advisors. Why can I see the role of NGO's but the CPC and MSS can't?
> Why spend all those billions on internal security when they can't even stop an NGO from doing this?
> Wastage of money.
> 
> West is so dominant because the non-West is utterly brainless. No common sense.
> Bunch of fools allowing anti-China Western NGO's, Western missionaries, Western media, Western companies (Google) to run rampant inside China.


Hey, buddy, easy and calm down.
We have the list. Be confident, we can deal with it.


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## MarkusS

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you guys eat pasta every day? Just wondering.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't interfere the US internal political affairs, so the US also shouldn't interfere ours.
> 
> 
> 
> And don't forget Russia, since they are now one of the biggest supporters for China's political model.
> 
> This is Putin's Russia, love it or leave it.



No, i don´t eat pasta evry day. But quite often. Its one of most popular foods in the world


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## Keel

The no of protesters who are still acting stupid on the streets are whittled down to a few dozens / a hundred in each location in the past few days

The local majority are getting sick of this abhorrent madness

why this China hater @Fukuoka is not posting any pics of the deserted "occupy central" sites here?

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## DoTell

I like it.

To the misguided college kids: time to go home to your mama. To the rest of the riots instigators and cheer leaders, hope what happened helps you realize that you can burn your own house down, or kill yourself, but not a sh!t is given by the 1.3 billion people in mainland China

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## ChineseTiger1986

BEIJING — Saying "constructive dialogue" is impossible, Hong Kong's government canceled plans for much-anticipated talks with protesters in an unprecedented civil disobedience movement that has paralyzed parts of the city for the past two weeks.

The announcement by Chief Secretary Carrie Lam on Thursday came hours after student protesters and organizers vowed to not retreat from their "occupation," calling for the public to gather Friday outside government headquarters to pressure Hong Kong to jump-start talks on constitutional changes.

"I truly regret that we will not be able to have a meeting tomorrow which will produce any constructive outcome," Lam said.

Reacting to the announcement, student leaders Thursday called the government "insincere" and reiterated calls for new protests Friday.

Authorities' attempts to persuade protesters, who have occupied Hong Kong's streets since Sept. 28, have largely failed, although demonstrators' numbers have dwindled to a few hundred from a peak of tens of thousands.

Protesters in this semi-autonomous city under China's control are demanding Beijing withdraw its plans requiring candidates for the territory's leader — next elected in 2017 by universal suffrage for the first time — to be nominated by a pro-Beijing committee.

Beijing has condemned the "illegal" protests, offering little hope for compromise, and appears prepared to back the Hong Kong government's strategy of waiting out the protesters.

Pro-democracy lawmakers, who so far haven't played much of a role in the civil disobedience campaign, said they would join in by blocking all government funding requests in the legislature except for the most urgent.

The pro-democracy camp is "stepping up their game," while students follow strategies "from the playbook of non-violent struggle," said Michael Davis, a constitutional law expert at the University of Hong Kong.

"Beijing is virtually clueless as to how its actions affect Hong Kong people," said Davis, who blamed Hong Kong officials and pro-Beijing public figures for never challenging China's line and misleading Beijing over sentiments in the city.

"The mainland will feel pressure for political reform, but that's not Hong Kong-driven," he said. "Hong Kong people are no revolutionaries, they are a pretty moderate group of people."

Still, Chinese authorities appear deeply worried about the potential impact. Dozens of mainland activists have been detained or intimidated for expressing support, according to China Human Rights Defenders, a Hong Kong-based advocacy group.

"The central government is extremely concerned about the Hong Kong protests, and ensures any solidarity with the protests is nipped in the bud to stop any spread of sympathy that challenges the central government rhetoric," said Maya Wang, a researcher in Hong Kong for Human Rights Watch. "There has been a thorough cleansing of social media."

On Twitter, which is largely blocked in China, some forwarded a call for an Occupy Tiananmen Square movement Saturday, telling protesters to bring umbrellas, Hong Kong's protest symbol.

Rain is likely, said Wang, who also forecasts a heavy-handed response from "paranoid" Chinese authorities.
"They see the shadows of revolution everywhere," she said.

Meanwhile, many mainland Chinese either remain ignorant of the protests or accept the highly negative portrayal in state-run media.

Beijing fashion designer Zhao Muting, 32, who has visited Hong Kong, doubts students there will achieve much through the protest, but envies their right to try.

"I wish China could have more democratic freedoms in the future, but I am wondering how we get them," she said. "I hope it's not through bloody means."

_Contributing: The Associated Press

Hong Kong government cancels talks with protesters_

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## Keel

Stupid reporting by the hegemony's mouth piece!
GTFO usa!

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## k_arura

Keel said:


> Stupid reporting by the hegemony's mouth piece!
> GTFO usa!


What do you find wrong in the report, pal?


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## Keel

These protesters who are sleeping out on the street are very stupid

On a normal day, the roads are busy with traffic where all sorts of vehicles: garbage, chemical and filthy wastes dumptrucks and thousands of other vehicles have emitted toxic gas and left plenty of harmful substances on the roads, not to mention rodents and bugs

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## Keel

Getting fewer "business" for "occupy central" since the massive protests last week

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## ChineseTiger1986

Keel said:


> Stupid reporting by the hegemony's mouth piece!
> GTFO usa!



HK is becoming a battlefield for the proxy war between China and USA.

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## vietnamese_sausage

hk people, you can become part of vietnam. vietnam welcome you


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> BEIJING — Saying "constructive dialogue" is impossible, Hong Kong's government canceled plans for much-anticipated talks with protesters in an unprecedented civil disobedience movement that has paralyzed parts of the city for the past two weeks.



Lied to kids. Next time they won't hear you.



> Beijing fashion designer Zhao Muting, 32, who has visited Hong Kong, *doubts students there will achieve much through the protest, but envies their right to try*.
> 
> "*I wish China could have more democratic freedoms in the future, but I am wondering how we get them," she said. "I hope it's not through bloody means.*"
> 
> _Contributing: The Associated Press
> 
> Hong Kong government cancels talks with protesters_



I have my hope similar to her.


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## vietnamese_sausage

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> HK is becoming a battlefield for the proxy war between China and USA.


united states will win?


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## ChineseTiger1986

vietnamese_sausage said:


> united states will win?



Nope


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nope



In mainland, if someone support HK democracy, don't they dare to use the symbol as my avatar, Tiger ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> In mainland, if someone support HK democracy, don't they dare to use the symbol as my avatar, Tiger ?



We will only support our true HK brothers and sisters, not those pro-British Gangbazi peasants.


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We will only support our true HK brothers and sisters, not those pro-British Gangbazi peasants.
> 
> View attachment 122385



That means "not allowed". Thanks


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> In mainland, if someone support HK democracy, don't they dare to use the symbol as my avatar, Tiger ?



Do you dare to carry a banner "we support VietNam democracy" in front of your govt building?


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## BoQ77

Black Flag said:


> Do you dare to carry a banner "we support VietNam democracy" in front of your govt building?



Yes. Of course.

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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> Yes. Of course.



We know you're lying. Otherwise, go and carry a banner or sign "I support democracy for VietNam" in front of your govt house, stay there for 1 hour and film or take photo for us to show it here.

But I know you won't dare to do this.


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> Yes. Of course.
> 
> View attachment 122399
> 
> 
> View attachment 122398
> 
> 
> View attachment 122393



And then what happened to them later? they got crack down, sent home and maybe even arrested. It is easy to find and read these events on Google news.


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## BoQ77

Black Flag said:


> And then what happened to them later? they got crack down, sent home and maybe even arrested. It is easy to find and read these events on Google news.



Can you share same in China ? acts of opposers to govt.


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> Can you share same in China ? acts of opposers to govt.



I don't live in China so I don't need to share anything. 

As for your country having the rights to protest:

Vietnamese Bloggers Plan Protest Over Hanoi Fireworks Celebration



> Emboldened by pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong, Vietnamese activists are rallying for demonstrations against government plans to hold an elaborate celebration marking the 60th anniversary of Hanoi’s liberation from French rule.
> 
> The government has organized fireworks displays in 30 districts of Hanoi as part of the celebration on Friday evening.
> 
> But activists say the celebration should not be held at a time when the country’s economy is reeling from a slowdown due to weak demand and a high levels of bad debt in the banking system.
> 
> “In the context of the dismal economy, we have seen so many children who cannot go to school, especially ones in remote areas,” blogger Pham Thanh Nghiem told RFA’s Vietnamese Service.
> 
> “Many people don’t have access to clean water, many companies have gone bankrupt, and the unemployment rate has been high.”
> 
> “It would be very inconsiderate and unsuitable for us if we have to spend a huge amount of money from the state budget—money paid by the people—on a fireworks show,” she said. “Instead, we should invest that money in education or health care, which are essential for life.”





> Vietnamese authorities are moving to block any demonstrations against the Hanoi anniversary celebrations in the wake of the pro-democracy protest in Hong Kong, and have questioned some activists on the issue.
> 
> Blogger Nguyen Huu Vinh told RFA that * local officials had come to his home to tell him not to join any such demonstrations in Vietnam.*
> 
> “Such behavior shows their confusion and concerns ahead of a turning point in the world’s democracy movement, which is having a huge effect on Vietnam,” he said.
> 
> * Nghiem said plain clothes police have guarded her home and followed her * after bloggers across Vietnam launched an online campaign in early September demanding that their authoritarian government keep the people informed about national and foreign policies.
> 
> “The government is always worried about people expressing opinions that are opposite of its own,” she said. “They are afraid of demonstrations, especially peaceful ones.”



Do you want me to post more news report about what happen to protesters in VN? is easy to find reports on the internet. We all know you're lying.


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## BoQ77

Yes. Make a new thread about that.
It's good.

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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> Yes. Make a new thread about that.
> It's good.



What for? everyone already knows you cannot have democracy protest in VN without police having a chat with you.


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## BoQ77

Black Flag said:


> What for? everyone already knows you cannot have democracy protest in VN without police having a chat with you.



just for avoid derail.

------------

*HK protesters plan fresh show of force after talks collapse*



October 10, 2014, 5:23 pm

*Share*

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AFP HK protesters plan fresh show of force after talks collapse
Hong Kong (AFP) - Hong Kong protesters planned a fresh show of force with a major rally Friday after talks with the government dramatically collapsed, and as they won powerful new US backing in their campaign for free elections.

Crunch talks between protesters and Beijing-backed city officials were planned for Friday, but fell apart Thursday after the government pulled out, blaming student leaders for threatening to escalate demonstrations if their demands were not met.

The decision deepened the ongoing political crisis in the Asian financial hub, with no end in sight to mass rallies that have paralysed parts of the city for nearly two weeks.

Demonstrators are calling for Beijing to grant the former British colony full democracy and for the city's Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying to resign.

Under plans unveiled by China in August, Hong Kongers will be able to vote for Leung's successor in 2017, but only two to three vetted candidates will be allowed to stand -- something detractors have dismissed as a "fake democracy".

Although protester numbers have dwindled in recent days, the collapse of the talks has spurred pro-democracy activists to push for new mass rallies over the weekend, with thousands expected to gather at 7:30 pm (1130 GMT) Friday outside the city's government headquarters.

The call came as US legislators condemned China's human rights record in a damning annual report, making a highly critical and unusual rebuke over Hong Kong.

Senator Sherrod Brown, chairman of the Congressional-Executive Commission on China, also called on Obama to press Chinese President Xi Jinping directly on "issues like Hong Kong" when they meet next month in Beijing.

China has repeatedly warned against any foreign government interfering in events inside the former British colony, which it views as an entirely domestic issue.

- Dangerous new phase -

Analysts Friday warned that the collapse of the talks pushes the confrontation between democracy protesters and the government into a dangerous phase, with neither side willing to back down.

Sunny Lo, a political analyst at the Hong Kong Institute of Education, said the government was spooked by a promise from pro-democracy lawmakers Thursday to disrupt the workings of the government in the city's parliament, known locally as LegCo, in a show of support for protesters.

"This is not a good sign now. The temperature is rising both inside and outside LegCo," he told AFP.

"If (the) Occupy Central movement drags on for a few more weeks I'm afraid police action would be inevitable. It would just be a matter of time," he added.

But Michael DeGolyer, a professor at Hong Kong Baptist University, said a violent police reaction was unlikely given it could reinvigorate the protest movement.

"They're not going to do the martyrdom thing. That would be a completely unnecessary act of dominance," he said.

With patience among many Hong Kongers running out following days of disruption, pressure is mounting on both Leung and the protest leaders to solve the stalemate.

Leung's opponents were given a major boost this week when details emerged that he had kept secret large payments from an Australian company while he was in office.

The Beijing-backed chief executive has denied any wrongdoing, saying he was under no obligation to declare the earnings and that he did not work for any company while in office.

But opposition lawmakers have smelled blood, threatening to bring impeachment proceedings against him while the city's top prosecutor will probe the allegations after a complaint was lodged with Hong Kong's anti-corruption watchdog.

Observers say Leung's bosses in China show no signs of dropping their support for the embattled leader.

"For the time being, Beijing will continue to let him deal with the crisis," Surya Deva, a law professor at City University of Hong Kong told AFP.

"But if he messes it up further, his head could come into the firing line."


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## BoQ77

*Hong Kong protests: Pro-democracy activists regroup after talks with government collapse*
Updated



* Photo:* Pro-democracy protesters gather outside Hong Kong's government headquarters on October 10, 2014. (Reuters: Carlos Barria ) 
*Related Story:* Hong Kong government calls off talks with pro-democracy leaders
*Related Story:* Hong Kong government and protesters agree to talks on 'equal footing'
 *Map: * Hong Kong
Hundreds of protesters have regrouped in Hong Kong to push their call for democracy, a day after the government called off talks aimed at resolving a two-week standoff.

Pro-democracy legislator Charles Mok said the fresh rally began at 7:30pm (local time) on Friday.

"There has been a few thousand people still sitting in Admiralty, Mongkok and Causeway Bay in the past few days," he told the ABC.

"But with the breakdown of the talks between the government and the students, the students are rallying for more people to join over the weekend and put pressure on the government.

"The size of the crowd can go up a few times compared with this week.

"We are in support of the [pro-democracy] movement and keen to support the actions of students."

We are in support of the [pro-democracy] movement and keen to support the actions of students.

Hong Kong legislative councillor Charles Mok


Scores arrived with tents despite a call by police to remove obstacles that have blocked major roads in and out of the financial centre, causing traffic and commuter chaos.

Police said they would take action at an appropriate time, without specifying what the action would be.

"I've just set up camp here under the bridge and I will come down to occupy whenever I can," said Wong Lai-wa, 23.

"I may have to go back to school during the day, but I will make every effort to come back."

On Thursday, chief secretary Carrie Lam said the government had decided to cancel the talks because of student leaders' calls for protests and their demands for universal suffrage, which she said were not in accordance with the city's mini-constitution.

"Based on the public remarks made by the student representatives ... the basis for a constructive dialogue between us and the students has been seriously undermined," she said.

"I truly regret that we will not be able to have a meeting which will produce any constructive outcome.



"The dialogue cannot be deployed as an excuse to incite more people to join the protest. These unlawful activities must end as soon as possible."

While numbers have fallen sharply over recent days, activists have managed to keep up their blockade of some major roads to the frustration of some residents.

Several hundred protesters were camped in the heart of the financial centre earlier on Friday.

One student leader said the protesters would consider lifting their blocks on some roads if the government allowed them to use Civic Square in the central Admiralty district, media reported.

The protesters' supply stations appeared to be well stocked with biscuits, cereal and water, underscoring their determination to sit it out until the government responds to their demands.

Hong Kong's opposition lawmakers have also stepped up their civil obedience campaign by threatening to veto some government funding applications in an attempt to paralyse government operations.

*Reuters/ABC*


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## BoQ77

Pro democracy protesters gather at Admiralty district during the rally after government called off the talks with students on October 10, 2014 in Hong Kong. AFP PHOTO/Xaume Olleros

Associated Press
HONG KONG: Thousands of people are pouring into a main road in Hong Kong to show support for a pro-democracy protest after the government called off talks with student leaders.

After a week that saw flagging support for the civil disobedience movement, crowds were surging again Friday evening.

Tens of thousands of people have occupied the semiautonomous Chinese city's streets in the past two weeks to demand a greater say in choosing the city's leader. Traffic through three of Hong Kong's busiest districts has been blocked by protesters, who have camped in main thoroughfares and streets.

The government has repeatedly urged protesters to allow the city to return to normal, saying their activities are illegal.

But student leaders have vowed to stay until the government responds to their demands.


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## vietnamese_sausage

BoQ77 said:


> View attachment 123760
> 
> Pro democracy protesters gather at Admiralty district during the rally after government called off the talks with students on October 10, 2014 in Hong Kong. AFP PHOTO/Xaume Olleros
> 
> Associated Press
> HONG KONG: Thousands of people are pouring into a main road in Hong Kong to show support for a pro-democracy protest after the government called off talks with student leaders.
> 
> After a week that saw flagging support for the civil disobedience movement, crowds were surging again Friday evening.
> 
> Tens of thousands of people have occupied the semiautonomous Chinese city's streets in the past two weeks to demand a greater say in choosing the city's leader. Traffic through three of Hong Kong's busiest districts has been blocked by protesters, who have camped in main thoroughfares and streets.
> 
> The government has repeatedly urged protesters to allow the city to return to normal, saying their activities are illegal.
> 
> But student leaders have vowed to stay until the government responds to their demands.


brah, if we as Vietnamese want to be credible we need to stop posting fake pictures. This picture was taken during the actual protest. i cannot verify if it is from that student protest or from other protests but not in connected to this news report.


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## BoQ77

I respect the article with attached image. Anyway it's for reference and exact image of the trend.


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## vietnamese_sausage

BoQ77 said:


> I respect the article with attached image. Anyway it's for reference and exact image of the trend.


yes i wish article would caption as file picture and list the event that was from.


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## BoQ77

By Simon Denyer October 10 at 2:25 PM
HONG KONG — Thousands of people of all ages flocked back into the streets of Hong Kong on Friday evening as the government’s decision to pull out of talks breathed new life into the pro-democracy movement.

Crowds at the protest sites in the city had been dwindling this week, but speakers said the government had miscalculated if it thought the popular desire for democracy was waning.

From a makeshift stage, students and other protest leaders were joined by volunteers, doctors, housewives, lawmakers and academics in expressing support for the movement and vowing to continue the struggle until the Hong Kong government responds to their demands for democracy.

But the loudest cheers of the night were reserved for Joshua Wong, the slight and bespectacled student leader who celebrates his 18th birthday Monday and urged supporters to bring their tents, mattresses, mats and sleeping bags, to fill up every inch of the protest site in central Hong Kong and prepare for a “long-term occupation.”

“This is our only choice if the government blocks the conversation. We are tired but we don’t want to lose,” he said in Cantonese, before leading the crowd in an English chant of “Democracy now, democracy in Hong Kong, we will never give up.”


Hong Kong protests have simmered, but students are calling for more demonstrations in response to the government calling off talks. (Reuters)
Throughout the three-hour rally, speakers and the crowd chanted “Stay on the streets until the end,” “Fight on” and “Protect Hong Kong.”

“Hong Kong’s determination has created one historic moment after another,” Wong said, demanding that the government apologize for using tear gas at the start of the protests, and threatening to expand the protests if the authorities do not come to the negotiating table.

Above the stage, banners demanded that Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying step down, called for democracy and justice, warned Taiwan to “beware” of China, and quoted the lyrics from a local pop song imploring people to “hold tight to freedom amid the wind and rain.”

In Washington, the Congressional-Executive Commission on China said the United States should boost support for democracy in Hong Kong. Beijing responded by saying this was sending the wrong message to demonstrators and called the statement a “deliberate attack” on China.

Speaking in Berlin, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said the situation in Hong Kong was part of China’s internal affairs and warned other countries to respect China’s sovereignty, news agencies reported.

“I am sure the people of Hong Kong have the wisdom, and the government has the authority, to preserve the prosperity of the city and also social stability,” he said.

In Hong Kong, frustration has grown at the prolonged occupation of streets, but the movement still appears to enjoy considerable popular support.

At the rally at the main protest site, speakers condemned the government’s decision to withdraw from talks with the students that had been planned for Friday, reserving particular ire for Leung and his deputy Carrie Lam, who had been supposed to lead the official delegation.

“If they had any courage, they should be here facing us,” said Alex Chow, secretary general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students. “I am prepared to talk to Carrie Lam, but where are you? You cannot escape from us — maybe for now, but not forever. You cannot insult us forever. This government has no legitimacy.”

Academics read out a petition accusing the Chinese government of violating the Basic Law, Hong Kong’s mini-constitution introduced after the handover from British rule, by failing to grant Hong Kong the right to elect its own leaders according to international democratic standards. They also accused the Hong Kong government of unwillingness to talk and to listen to its own citizens, and faulted the police for using tear gas on peaceful protesters at the start of the protests.

“We condemn the government’s lack of goodwill and its unwillingness to deal with the crisis through genuine dialogue,” said retired professor Ho Chi-kwan, reading a petition that she said had been signed by 140 academics in less than five hours Friday.

On Thursday, Lam, the territory’s chief secretary for administration, said the government did not believe talks could be held in a constructive atmosphere while the protests continued, but she also demanded that the students accept the Chinese Communist Party’s ruling in August that effectively closed the door on democracy for the former British colony.

That decision stipulated that only candidates acceptable to Beijing would be allowed to stand in elections planned for 2017 to elect Leung’s replacement. Protesters want an open field of candidates, arguing that the current system produces a chief executive who behaves as if he is answerable only to Beijing and who does not defend the interests of the people of Hong Kong.

Just as the use of tear gas was a major recruiting factor for the protests two weeks ago, the government’s decision to back out of talks appeared to have galvanized popular anger this week.

In the crowd, there was little optimism that Beijing would back down, but rather a sense that Hong Kong had been irrevocably changed by the protests and that the current system — where Beijing rules the territory by proxy through a narrow political and business elite — was unsustainable.

“I am extremely moved by this, by how people came out to do this,” said Kenneth Wong, a 24-year-old fashion designer who planned to stay the night at the site with a friend. “It’s like a battle you can’t win. It’s really sad the government won’t take any step to try to achieve a consensus. But the government has definitely underestimated the power of the people.”

Meanwhile, the China Human Rights Defenders group said police across China had taken into custody dozens of activists, petitioners, artists and other citizens who had posted messages online or gathered to show support for the protesters. The majority of the detentions took place in Beijing.

Daniela Deane in Rome contributed to this report.

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## Keel



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## Keel

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> go back to india to enjoy your proud democrazy



Correct 
They should go back to India if they are not happy with the HK rules


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## ChineseTiger1986

One picture speaks more than million words. And do you seriously believe that HK will have any future with these clowns?

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## he-man

I don't hate them

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## ChineseTiger1986

he-man said:


> I don't hate them



The rebellious teens don't hate the sex/gambling/drug.

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## he-man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The rebellious teens don't hate the sex/gambling/drug.



As much as i love it,am not a teenager anymore


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## BoQ77

you cannot represent for "everyone"
I don't hate them, I support them.

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## BoQ77

*The secret history of Hong Kong’s stillborn democracy*





China's contention that it's giving Hong Kong more democracy than the Brits ever did is a little disingenuous.(Reuters)

11 hours ago
By Sep. 29, peaceful protesters had been clogging Hong Kong’s downtown for less than a day, but to the Chinese Communist Party this already smacked of ingratitude. Here’s an excerpt from an editorial that ran that day (link in Chinese) in the People’s Daily, the party’s official mouthpiece, entitled “No one cares more about Hong Kong’s future destiny than the entire Chinese people”:

Since 1842, when Hong Kong was reduced to being a British colony, our fellow citizens of Hong Kong were but second- or third-class citizens suffering unequal treatment. During the 1950s, anti-colonial liberation movements roiled its colonies and Britain bought off its people’s will, and yet Hong Kong’s political reform plan was unfairly dismissed as “excessively dangerous.” In 150 years, the country that now poses as an exemplar of democracy gave our Hong Kong compatriots not one single day of it. Only in the 15 years before the 1997 handover did the British colonial government reveal their “secret” longing to put Hong Kong on the road to democracy…, creating a not inconsiderable gulf between the mainland and Hong Kong. Yet it was only after the handover—and thanks to none other than the Chinese central government’s diligence—that Hong Kong could begin to hope that within just two decades it would get to elect its chief executive through universal suffrage. Who has the real democracy, and who has the fake democracy—compare the two and judge.

Of course, this argument doesn’t change the fact that the Chinese government’s version of “universal suffrage” requires that Hong Kong voters pick from candidates Beijing has essentially selected for them, reneging on past promises.

That aside, the Communist Party’s new pet argument seems to make some sense—or at least, it would have until recently. In the last couple years, however, the British government has declassified a cache of colonial records that tell a very different story.

Take for instance this document, which describes what British lieutenant-colonel Kenneth Cantlie relayed to British prime minister Harold MacMillan about his conversation with premier Zhou Enlai in early 1958:






(British National Archives)
In it, Zhou says Beijing would regard allowing Hong Kong’s people to govern themselves as a “very unfriendly act,” says Cantlie. Not long thereafter, in 1960, Liao Chengzhi, China’s director of “overseas Chinese affairs,” told Hong Kong union representatives that China’s leaders would “not hesitate to take positive action to have Hong Kong, Kowloon and the New Territories liberated” if the Brits allowed self-governance:






(British National Archives)
These documents—which, perhaps unbeknownst to the People’s Daily, Hong Kong journalists have been busily mining (link in Chinese)—show that not only were the Brits mulling granting Hong Kong self-governance in the 1950s; it was the Chinese government under Mao Zedong who quashed these plans, threatening invasion. And the very reason Mao didn’t seize Hong Kong in the first place was so that the People’s Republic could enjoy the economic fruits of Britain’s colonial governance.

This revelation suggests that the Chinese government’s current claims of democratic largesse are somewhat disingenuous, says Ho-Fung Hung, sociology professor at Johns Hopkins University.

“The whole argument that Beijing’s offer is better than the British’s—it no longer holds,” he tells Quartz. “Beijing can no longer say there were bad things during colonial times because it’s now been revealed that it was part of the force that maintained the status quo in Hong Kong. Beijing is partially responsible for the lack of democracy in Hong Kong before 1997.”

It’s long been known that in the 1980s, once the Brits knew they were going to be leaving and tried to speed up democratic reform, the Chinese government threatened them not to, notes Hung (a point to which the People’s Daily editorial obliquely refers).






British prime minister Margaret Thatcher and Chinese premier Zhao Ziyang exchange signed copies of the Hong Kong handover agreement in Beijing on Dec. 19, 1984.(AP Photo/Neal Ulevich)
In the early 1980s, when prime minister Margaret Thatcher began negotiating with China’s leaders—president Deng Xiaoping and premier Zhao Ziyang—what grew into the Sino-British Joint-Declaration of 1984, Britain had leverage. Treaties signed in the 1800s stipulated that the Brits were only to hand back the northern swath of Hong Kong called the New Territories—and not Hong Kong island or Kowloon (i.e. the major financial and commercial areas), which China also wanted. Beijing also needed the handover to go smoothly in order to convince Taiwan, an independent island state that it nominally laid claim to, that the “one country, two systems” approach could work. In addition, Hong Kong was still a major financial center and trade hub for China too.

But China had leverage too. In fact, in 1982, when negotiations began, the Hang Seng Index was already shaky due to fears that if China took over, the Communist Party would gut Hong Kong’s rule of law or nationalize wealth, causing the market to crash and capital to flee:






(Wikimedia Commons)
The Brits needed to calm markets and ensure financial stability. That meant making sure the handover agreement protected British financial interests. But as documents from Thatcher’s archive declassified in 2013 reveal, it also meant publicly cooperating with China. In the following memo (pdf, p.3), Thatcher tells Deng that the issue wasn’t what happened in 1997, but what everyone in 1982, when they were talking, _expected _to happen:






Thatcher’s handwritten margin notes appear to refer to the Cultural Revolution and the Gang of Four trial, both of which were socially disruptive.(Margaret Thatcher Foundation)
And here’s an example of Beijing’s threats to British diplomats on preserving Hong Kong’s status quo, from the same memo recording Deng and Thatcher’s discussion (p.10):






(Margaret Thatcher Foundation)
What the documents from even earlier show is that this showdown—Brits floating democracy, Chinese leaders threatening to invade—had been going on since the 1950s, three decades before we previously knew.

Why did neither ever happen? Hung says that the Brits wanted to make sure they’d protected their economic interests before they departed, much the way they did in Singapore and Malaysia. And when Mao founded the People’s Republic of China in 1949, he and Zhou Enlai decided not to seize Hong Kong—which the British at the time expected—because the capitalist territory was their lone source of foreign exchange and a strategic portal for manufacturing trade that would eventually drive China’s double-digit growth. As the newly declassified documents reveal, China’s leaders explicity wanted to “preserve the colonial status of Hong Kong” so that the People’s Republic could “trade and contact people of other countries and obtain materials” it badly needed.

Both the British and the Chinese governments benefited from the nearly 50-year deadlock of Hongkongers seeing neither democracy nor an invasion. But as the recent protests eerily hint, this limbo can’t endure forever.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Looks like a typical party in any Chinese small town.


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## ChineseTiger1986

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Looks like a typical party in any Chinese small town.



That's why the US shouldn't trust these guys.

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## he-man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's why the US shouldn't trust these guys.



China cannot stay communist forever..........slowly change will come


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## BoQ77

Europa said:


> indians and tibetans showing support to hong kong
> 
> View attachment 114049



Fighting for democracy with basic rights like voting ... is the right thing to do.
We support them


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## ChineseTiger1986

he-man said:


> China cannot stay communist forever..........slowly change will come



Dude, keep dreaming, these guys couldn't even change Hong Kong, let alone the Mainland China.

Over 90% of Mainland Chinese despise them.

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## BoQ77

You should trust in US choice. Or let them in like 1945


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## he-man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Dude, keep dreaming, these guys couldn't even change Hong Kong, let alone the Mainland China.
> 
> Over 90% of Mainland Chinese despise them.



As i said it will happen slowly over decades,,,,,there is simply not much reason for china to be ruled by iron fist now,,,those times are gone.Now chinese are nationalistic and even in a democracy they will be successful.

The 50-60's were dangerous times for a large country,not anymore

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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> You should trust in US choice. Or let them in like 1945
> 
> View attachment 124976



lol, you guys have no idea about CPC.

If CPC is what you described, it would have collapsed since 1989, not thriving like today.

The fact is that CPC has already surpassed its big brother CCCP by poising to become the most powerful communist party in the history.

A loser communist party like VCP should be collapsed, but not a superior one like CPC.



he-man said:


> As i said it will happen slowly over decades,,,,,there is simply not much reason for china to be ruled by iron fist now,,,those times are gone.Now chinese are nationalistic and even in a democracy they will be successful.
> 
> The 50-60's were dangerous times for a large country,not anymore



I will say that India has much greater chance of getting occupied by the Maoist party than CPC getting occupied by the color revolution.

You should now worry about your own problem.

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## Bas_kya_bhai

everyone hates US untill getting visa.

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## MarkusS

I see no communism in china. its more like hyper capitalism.

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## he-man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, you guys have no idea about CPC.
> 
> If CPC is what you described, it would have collapsed since 1989, not thriving like today.
> 
> The fact is that CPC has already surpassed its big brother CCCP by poising to become the most powerful communist party in the history.
> 
> A loser communist party like VCP should be collapsed, not a superior one like CPC.
> 
> 
> 
> I will say that India has much greater chance of getting occupied by the Maoist party than CPC getting occupied by the color revolution.
> 
> You should now worry about your own problem.



As usual stupid statement.




MarkusS said:


> I see no communism in china. its more like hyper capitalism.



communism in politics not in business


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## ChineseTiger1986

MarkusS said:


> I see no communism in china. its more like hyper capitalism.



The Chinese government controls the capitalism, whereas the capitalism controls the western government, hence the difference.

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## BoQ77

CPC won, but it's not the communism party anymore.
There's no communism party with all of leaders are capitalism.

But its capitalism is immature. It's the type of capitalism with King.
and Lack of democracy to make sure the special benefits for the King and Mandarins.

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## MarkusS

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Chinese government controls the capitalism, whereas the capitalism controls the western government, hence the difference.



that is wrong. The leadership is corrupted to the core. Money rules in china. Like evrywhere else.

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## he-man

MarkusS said:


> that is wrong. The leadership is corrupted to the core. Money rules in china. Like evrywhere else.



Truer words have never been spoken before


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## ChineseTiger1986

MarkusS said:


> that is wrong. The leadership is corrupted to the core. Money rules in china. Like evrywhere else.



Merkel is a working girl for the big corporations, if she cannot secure their special interests, then it is the time to say goodbye.

Beware about the sanctions against Russia, if Germany has entered into an economic recession, then you will soon have a new chancellor.



he-man said:


> Truer words have never been spoken before



Talk like India has the cleanest government in the world.

Remember, people will no longer talk about Shanghai, it should be all about Mumbai for now.

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## Shishike

he-man said:


> China cannot stay communist forever..........slowly change will come


but we dont want to have democracy like India, it's a Chaos.

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## he-man

Shishike said:


> but we dont want to have democracy like India, it's a Chaos.



Yeah right



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Merkel is a working girl for the big corporations, if she cannot secure their special interests, then it is the time to say goodbye.
> 
> Beware about the sanctions against Russia, if Germany has entered into an economic recession, then you will soon have a new chancellor.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk like India has the cleanest government in the world.
> 
> Remember, people will no longer talk about Shanghai, it should be all about Mumbai for now.



As usual another stupid post


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## ChineseTiger1986

ClassicMan said:


> In this world, the majority rules. The majority of the world do not favor communism.
> 
> China have opened the Pandora's box. Like @he-man have commented, "Slowly change will come."
> 
> 
> Ever consider or ponder about Confucian Democracy?



lol, why we have to care a damn about the opinion of the rest of the world?

It is all about China, we have already decided what type of government we need since 1949.

China won't interfere other people's political view, but don't try to interfere ours as well.

And we don't care what type of government you want, but we will keep CPC for ourselves.

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## he-man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, why we have to care a damn about the opinion of the rest of the world?
> 
> It is all about China, we already have decided what type of government we want since 1949.
> 
> China won't interfere other people's political view, but don't try to interfere ours as well.
> 
> And we don't care what type of government you want, but we will keep CPC for ourselves.



The great analyst

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## BoQ77

If China failed to stop the other system democracy trend, 
then it's China's turn get affected by that system. and change.

Chinese mainlanders now keen to inspire from HK democracy. Why not?
It's good.


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## FairAndUnbiased

ClassicMan said:


> In this world, the majority rules.



The majority of the world also believes in spirits and ghosts. The majority of the world also doesn't understand one lick of solid state physics. In terms of facts and results, there is no "majority rules". There are only 3 results: you know the answer, you don't know the answer but understand the question, and you can't even understand the question. The most popular ideas aren't always the most correct.

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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> If China failed to stop the other system democracy trend,
> then it's China's turn get affected by that system. and change.
> 
> Chinese mainlanders now keen to inspire from HK democracy. Why not?
> It's good.



Most Chinese Mainlanders perceive the democracy in Taiwan and HK as the biggest joke of the century.

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## Beidou2020

CPC should put in a hawkish PLA military general as leader of Hong Kong.

These Cantonese speaking goons should not be treated as humans. Any anti-China people in Hong Kong should be arrested and deported to a Western country and banned from entering Hong Kong ever again.

CPC has allowed Hong Kong and Macau to be a breeding group for Western intelligence agencies.

CPC need to establish full communist rule over Hong Kong and Macau through force if necessary.

CPC has gone soft over the years and this soft liberal style of leadership has made the CPC look weak to challengers of CPC rule.

CPC need some military hawks in power.

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## FairAndUnbiased

@ChineseTiger1986 

educating them is a waste of time. they are not merely ignorant, but proud of their ignorance. you cannot educate the unwilling because their ignorance is not due to a lack of understanding.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC should put in a hawkish PLA military general as leader of Hong Kong.
> 
> *These Cantonese speaking goons should not be treated as humans. Any anti-China people in Hong Kong should be arrested and deported to a Western country and banned from entering Hong Kong ever again.*
> 
> CPC has allowed Hong Kong and Macau to be a breeding group for Western intelligence agencies.
> 
> CPC need to establish full communist rule over Hong Kong and Macau through force if necessary.
> 
> CPC has gone soft over the years and this soft liberal style of leadership has made the CPC look weak to challengers of CPC rule.
> 
> CPC need some military hawks in power.



BTW, isn't your wife Cantonese speaker as well?

We don't have problem with the Cantonese speakers, since it is just one of many China's dialects, but we have a big problem with those pro-democrazy liberals.



ClassicMan said:


> *I believe Mao left Hong Kong open for a reason.* In case Communism fail, China can have an route to escape. By the route your leaders have taken, it shows that communism have failed to push China forward.
> 
> Communism only works in rural areas in the mainland which aren't exposed to the rest of the world.



You haven't even done your homework on Wikipedia, nuff said.


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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> BTW, isn't your wife Cantonese speaker as well?
> 
> We don't have problem with the Cantonese speakers, since it is just one of many China's dialects, but we have a big problem with those pro-democrazy liberals.
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't even done your homework on Wikipedia, nuff said.



Yes, but she barely speaks the language as she was born in the US. Her parents were from Guangdong. 

But it's no secret that Hong Kong and Guangdong has very pro-western liberals. I suppose its not good to generalise but from the people i've met, Cantonese speakers tend to be very anti-CPC.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> Yes, but she barely speaks the language as she was born in the US. Her parents were from Guangdong.
> 
> But it's no secret that Hong Kong and Guangdong has very pro-western liberals. I suppose its not good to generalise but from the people i've met, Cantonese speakers tend to be very anti-CPC.



Yep, Guangdong is the most liberal place in China, even much more liberal than Shanghai.

But Shanghai still has some stronghold support for CPC since it was the birthplace of CPC.

Whereas Guangdong was the birthplace of KMT, so the sentiment is completely different.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, Guangdong is the most liberal place in China, even much more liberal than Shanghai.
> 
> But Shanghai still has some stronghold support for CPC since it was the birthplace of CPC.
> 
> Whereas Guangdong was the birthplace of KMT, so the sentiment is completely different.



I read this:

China Is Forcing Its Biggest Cantonese-Speaking Region To Speak Mandarin - Business Insider


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> I read this:
> 
> China Is Forcing Its Biggest Cantonese-Speaking Region To Speak Mandarin - Business Insider



Because most Cantonese are not fluent in Mandarin, it will create too many barriers to communicate with the rest of China, also the growth of the regionalism.

Overall, North China is conservative, Guangdong is liberal, whereas Shanghai is in between.

In Shanghai, many descendants of the rich landlords are pro-KMT, they are also the fellow Zhejiangnese of Chiang Kai-Shek. But the scientist elites are pro-CPC, and during the 1940-1950s, none of them accepted to defect towards KMT.

But recently with the strong migration from North-Central China moved towards Shanghai, the demography of Shanghai has been heavily shifted from moderately pro-CPC to strongly pro-CPC.

CPC also strongly encourages us to intermarry with the North Chinese, even Xinhua openly promotes that.

订做孩子?专家:血型比英俊重要 宜选南北通婚

I believe about 50% of younger generation in Shanghai and Jiangnan marrying with the North-Central Chinese, so CPC has quite successfully modified the demography structure in Shanghai and turned them into the pro-CPC demographic stronghold.

So I think the similar policy is also applied to Guangdong, but Cantonese are generally more culturally resilient than Shanghainese, so the assimilation will take a bit longer.

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## FairAndUnbiased

ClassicMan said:


> Ever wonder why Mao continued to allow British rule of Hong Kong?
> Wasn't Mao Zedong and others in his party part of KMT in 1920s? They did believed in democracy.



Your assumption is that the KMT believes in democracy.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because most Cantonese are not fluent in Mandarin, it will create too many barriers to communicate with the rest of China, also the growth of the regionalism.
> 
> Overall, North China is conservative, Guangdong is liberal, whereas Shanghai is in between.
> 
> In Shanghai, many descendants of the rich landlords are pro-KMT, they are also the fellow Zhejiangnese of Chiang Kai-Shek. But the scientist elites are pro-CPC, and during the 1940-1950s, none of them accepted to defect towards KMT.
> 
> But recently with the strong migration from North-Central China moved towards Shanghai, the demography of Shanghai has been heavily shifted from moderately pro-CPC to strongly pro-CPC.
> 
> CPC also strongly encourages us to intermarry with the North Chinese, even Xinhua openly promotes that.
> 
> 订做孩子?专家:血型比英俊重要 宜选南北通婚
> 
> I believe about 50% of younger generation in Shanghai and Jiangnan marrying with the North-Central Chinese, so CPC has quite successfully modified the demography structure in Shanghai and turned them into the pro-CPC demographic stronghold.
> 
> So I think the similar policy is also applied to Guangdong, but the Cantonese are generally more culturally resilient than Shanghainese, so the assimilation will take a bit longer.



This is smart on the part of the CPC. When you have different cultures and languages, it creates separatist feelings as can be seen in places in the Middle East and India.

If you are saying Guangdong is the final stronghold of the anti-CPC brigade, then its only right to make sure even Guangdong speaks Mandarin.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> This is smart on the part of the CPC. When you have different cultures and languages, it creates separatist feelings as can be seen in places in the Middle East and India.
> 
> If you are saying Guangdong is the final stronghold of the anti-CPC brigade, then its only right to make sure even Guangdong speaks Mandarin.



Recently, CPC has purged on the pro-West media in Guangdong, many supervisors and editors were arrested.

And the stronghold of HK's supporters in Mainland China is always Guangdong because of the same dialect and sub-culture.

Because of the difference of the sub-cultures and dialects, we have clearly seen the live example in Ukraine.

That's why CPC's ultimate goal is to eliminate the difference between each Chinese sub-group.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most Chinese Mainlanders perceive the democracy in Taiwan and HK as the biggest joke of the century.



most of them only heard from state run media.

this is like the joke, "the Martian looks weird"


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## Shishike

ClassicMan said:


> Once you open the door for international businesses there is no room left for communism.


first of all, now China are in a situation what we call socialism.


BoQ77 said:


> most of them only heard from state run media.
> 
> this is like the joke, "the Martian looks weird"


If you want to say something with point, please dont make it up.

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## kawaraj

I'd say Hong Kong cops shoud be hated. What a bunch of clowns. They are hired to humiliate democracy?

It's hard to imagine Hong Kong is such lawless place.


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## BoQ77

*An end to Hong Kong’s unrest is now more distant than ever*





Protesters in Hong Kong listen to speeches after talks planned for Friday between demonstrators and the government were called off.(Reuters/Carlos Barria)


HONG KONG—A resolution to the protests that have swept Hong Kong for the past two weeks drifted even further away today.

Ahead of talks between students and the government planned for tomorrow, protesters announced a new wave of civil disobedience, partnering with sympathetic lawmakers who vowed to veto government funding measures until concrete political reform is passed. Within a few hours, the city’s second-in-command, chief secretary Carrie Lam, abruptly called off the talks, saying it was “impossible to have a constructive meeting” with student leaders.

The moves threaten to intensify the unrest, after days of relative calm in which protesters ceded territory, officials stressed the importance of dialogue, and police kept their distance from demonstrators.

1

Beijing has stated unequivocally that it will not reconsider an August 31 ruling that candidates for Hong Kong’s highest office will be selected by a committee dominated by largely pro-China loyalists, and not nominated by the public. Lam said that the students had not met the government’s conditions for negotiations, namely that the discussions were “to be within the framework” of Beijing’s decision and not be linked to the Occupy movement.

“This is proof that the government has no intention to meet at all, they are just finding excuses to refuse meeting,” student group Scholarism said in a statement. Before the government called off talks, Scholarism leader Joshua Wong said students would launch another wave of class boycotts—schools reopened this week—and street protests every day if their requests weren’t met. For its part, the Hong Kong Federation of Students called on its supporters to come out: “The government has shut out dialogue, we will hold the streets.” Student leaders are planning a mass rally tonight in Admiralty, the main protest site.






“The government has shut out dialogue, we will hold the streets.”(Hong Kong Federation of Students)
A reinvigorated protest movement, allied with pro-democracy legislators, could make things increasingly uncomfortable for the Hong Kong establishment. Pro-democracy lawmakers occupy 27 of Hong Kong’s 70-member legislative council seats, and they may be able to exert an outsized impact on what gets funded in the city next year.

In recent days all but one of these council members applied to be on the “public works” and “establishment” subcommittees, which approve funding for public projects and nominate directors to the finance committee. Pro-democracy members now outnumber pro-establishment legislators on both subcommittees. Chairman of these committees are elected by a simple majority, and have huge sway over the outcome of funding proposals.

The administration of Hong Kong chief executive Leung Chun-ying, better known as CY Leung, has “has lost its legitimacy to govern,” Hong Kong legislator Alan Leong said at a press conference held at the epicenter of the protest movement, a public space outside government headquarters that protesters have now dubbed “Umbrella Square.”

Friction between the pro-democracy legislators and their pro-Beijing peers has already resulted in numerous showdowns which threatened to cripple the city financially even before the protests erupted. Hong Kong’s annual budget was only passed after a 130-hour filibuster that left several departments critically short of cash, and only after three pro-democracy lawmakers were were expelled from the proceedings.

The number of protesters has dwindled these week to the hundreds, after tens of thousands poured into the streets last week. Critics say local residents are growing impatient and that demonstrators are tired of a lack of results, but protesters say that supporters will be easy mobilize again. Speaking at the press conference today, Wong acknowledged that an escalation would further inconvenience Hong Kong residents, telling the crowd, “We try to use a short-term burden on our daily life to exchange for political reform and true universal suffrage.”

For now, Hong Kong risks descending into near chaos, according to Emily Lau Wai-hing, a Hong Kong legislative council member. “Beijing’s got to yield,” she told Quartz ahead of today’s press conference. “We are almost ungovernable,” she said, gesturing to the roads outside of government offices, cut off by the protests that may be set to grow in the days ahead.
----






Lily Kuo *✔* @*lilkuo* 
Follow
Protest leaders announce a new wave of civil disobedience. Sign says "Insist on fighting for universal suffrage."


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## Beidou2020

I give it 2 weeks and it will die again

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## Kolaps

HK young people pushed the democracy reform, because HK don't have something to be proud off anymore against mainland cities.

HK young people believe, democracy is something they have, while the poor mainlander don't have.

Ex-rich-boy in crisis.


In 20+ years from now, I don't think HK is something special anymore.

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## BoQ77

*Some Chinese Leaders Claim U.S. and Britain Are Behind Hong Kong Protests *
By KEITH BRADSHEROCT. 10, 2014


Photo





Protests on Friday in support of free elections without restrictions in Hong Kong. Credit Rolex Dela Pena/European Pressphoto Agency

HONG KONG — One of the young protesters directing traffic on Friday morning at a street barricade here was wearing a reproduction of British military fatigues, complete with a Union Jack on the shoulder. In any other city, the outfit might have been dismissed as hipster chic. But in Hong Kong, it caused a stir.

An older demonstrator approached and said the uniform was a bad idea because it might suggest foreign influence over the pro-democracy protests, especially given Hong Kong’s status as a former British colony. Then a young woman wearing a blue dress to show support for the police strode by, stuck out her right arm and gave him a thumbs down.

“They are the minority,” she said of the protesters. Declining to give her name, she added, “They are motivated by some forces behind them. They have huge supplies, so many masks — I think it is American money.”
* Photographs *
* Images of Hong Kong’s Umbrella Revolution *
For nine days, waves of pro-democracy protests engulfed Hong Kong, swelling at times to tens of thousands of people and raising tensions with Beijing.



OPEN Photographs
The Chinese government’s stand also reflects its longstanding national security concerns about Hong Kong — and pervasive suspicions among Chinese officials, their local allies and a segment of the public that the protesters receive foreign support.

Some officials contend that the United States and Britain wield so much influence in Hong Kong that China cannot open the nomination process for candidates to succeed Hong Kong’s chief executive, Leung Chun-ying, in 2017 as protesters have demanded. Doing so, they argue, risks allowing voters to be manipulated and a puppet of the West to take power.

“Strategically, there is an American pivot to Asia still going on, so can you imagine it will not make use of the current turmoil?” asked Lau Nai-keung, a member of a Hong Kong committee that advises China’s legislature. “This is how the Beijing leadership views what is going on.”

Those who sympathize with the democracy movement tend to dismiss such concerns as paranoia. But many who back the government insist these worries are justified given the 155 years Hong Kong spent as a British colony and the unique autonomy it enjoys in China, not to mention the mixed record of the United States in toppling governments overseas in the name of spreading democracy.

Demographics are a cause for concern, too. Three-fifths of the population in Hong Kong grew up and went to school while it was governed by Britain. Many resident, as much as a tenth, have sworn loyalty to another government and carry passports from Canada, Australia, the United States and elsewhere, many acquired in the years immediately before Hong Kong’s return to Chinese rule in 1997.

The city also has one of Asia’s largest concentrations of foreign diplomats and is home to several nongovernmental organizations deemed hostile by China, like the Catholic Church, the banned Falun Gong spiritual movement, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

Continue reading the main story
The crowds at the main sit-in site in Hong Kong dwindled during the workweek, but on Friday night, thousands of residents rallied again near the government’s offices. The demonstration was intended as a show of strength and resolve after a senior official abruptly canceled talks with student leaders the day before and said that the protests were waning. “It’s like they’re treating us like foolish sheep, and people don’t like that. I came to show we’re still a big number,” said Philip Yue, a law student.

Chinese officials, in public and in private, have been quick to portray the protests as the latest in a series of Western-sponsored color revolutions after those in the former Soviet Union and the Middle East. They have seized on any hint that the demonstrators might be inspired by foreign powers, especially the United States and to a lesser extent Britain, to make their case.

“People will find that supporting color revolutions has already become a habit and mission of some people in the United States,” wrote Wu Sike, a longtime Chinese diplomat, in Liberation Daily, the official paper of the Communist Party in Shanghai.

There is no dispute that diplomats representing the United States and other Western governments have met on occasion with members of the pro-democracy camp, nor that American-funded nongovernmental organizations have invited Hong Kong citizens to conferences extolling the merits of democracy.

But in several dozen interviews with protesters and protest leaders over the last week, all emphatically denied that their movement had been directed or manipulated in any way by any foreign government. The United States has also denied playing any guiding role here.

Photo





A pro-democracy activist in Hong Kong on Friday wearing replica British military fatigues, an outfit that met with some disapproval. Credit Chris Mcgrath/Getty Images
“What is happening in Hong Kong is about the people of Hong Kong, and any assertion otherwise is an attempt to distract from the issue at hand, which is the people of Hong Kong expressing their desire for universal suffrage and an election that provides a meaningful choice of candidates representative of the voters’ will,” said Scott Robinson, the spokesman for the United States Consulate in Hong Kong. He added that, “U.S. diplomats regularly meet with a broad cross-section of Hong Kong society both in Hong Kong and in Washington and do not support any particular political party or person.”

Such statements, though, have been met with skepticism by many in government circles, and pro-Chinese lawmakers in Hong Kong have called for an investigation into how the protests have been funded and organized.

“Nobody is saying that they are on the front lines directing this or that, but they have been doing this concertedly for five or six years, grooming all of these activists, providing them with theories and tactics,” said one person involved in the government’s decision-making on the protests who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

When pressed for names of activists who might fall into this category, this person demurred. But he went on to criticize the protesters for singing “Happy Birthday” to drown out pro-government hecklers, saying that this was a tactic borrowed from American-backed supporters of democracy in other countries. “It’s peaceful, but it’s a kind of violence,” in that it infringes on the free speech of the demonstrators’ critics, he said.

Continue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story
The protesters have offered a more innocent explanation: They adopted the tactic because some of the bullhorns they use are programmed to play the song.

According to its annual reports, the National Endowment for Democracy, a nonprofit directly supported by Washington, distributed $755,000 in grants in Hong Kong in 2012, and an additional $695,000 last year, to encourage the development of democratic institutions. Some of that money was earmarked “to develop the capacity of citizens — particularly university students — to more effectively participate in the public debate on political reform.”

The reference to university students has drawn particular attention from China’s supporters, because student groups have been at the forefront of the protests. But Jane Riley Jacobsen, a spokeswoman for the N.E.D., said the group had not financed civil disobedience training for Hong Kong residents.

The N.E.D. also hosted a briefing in Washington last April featuring two of Hong Kong’s most influential advocates of democracy in recent decades, Martin Lee and Anson Chan, who angered Chinese leadership by lobbying American politicians to support the democracy movement, an act that critics likened to inviting foreign intervention. China has long portrayed Mr. Lee, 76, as a tool of Britain and the United States.

Another target of criticism for pro-China politicians and media in Hong Kong is the United States Consulate, which is often depicted as a base for conducting surveillance and espionage to target China, with more than 1,000 American employees. That image was reinforced by Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who briefly sought refuge in Hong Kong and told a local newspaper that the United States had hacked into Pacnet, a global telecommunications firm in Hong Kong with ties to mainland China’s top mobile operators.

In reality, said Mr. Robinson, the United States Consulate spokesman, the consulate employs fewer than 150 Americans.

Protest leaders said they had not received any funding from the United States government or nonprofit groups affiliated with it. Chinese officials choose to blame hidden foreign forces, they argued, in part because they find it difficult to accept that so many ordinary people in Hong Kong want democracy.

“It has always been Beijing’s inner demon,” said Alex Chow, the secretary general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, one of the main protest groups, “easily falling into its own fears.”


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## Tang Yi

ClassicMan said:


> Once you open the door for international businesses there is no room left for communism.



Actually,China is a capitalist states now.International business have got into China for 35 years,And China changed every time in this period,from culture to politics.

Communism became a lie,and CPC need this lie to protect its legitimacy in China. Since 1928, CPC promised all of us that making a government stand for the poor people,and capitalism would finally make the country stand only for the rich. This words were said time and time again in the first 30 years of the Republic. If CPC admit capitalism,how can CPC keep the legitimacy? People fight for it and died millions for it against KMT party which stand for capitalism(the governing party in China,1925-1948,and the governing party in Taiwan nowadays.). If one day CPC stand for capitalism as well, the lives people had paid in internal war during 1945-1949 should be meaningless. CPC could not stand for capitalism in public.

If Deng Xiaoping admit capitalism openly at 1978,the year that China terminate Culture revolution. it means internal war against the army and the majority of people(elder people). So CPC could not stand for capitalism until the right time come, or we will find the un-solvable problem in capitalism(Imperialism or economic harzard) and find a new way. However, actually CPC's applying state capitalism now，a different kind capitalism from the US. (By the way, Deng is on charge by politic coup. That's why this 35 years in China is so different from the first 30 years(1949-1978). They are actually different party!)

There's a photo taken by a free-photographer that well known in zhihu website,Chinese Quora. It named "left-leaning".go and find the answer by yourself.




(Characters on bridge is "follow the party, go to the new glorious." Try to find something funny in this picture.)

China is not democracy states, but it's not dictatorial country either. it use the politic structure simply like the old Rome. republic inter hundreds Of CPC governor(people called them "red nobleman" for irony because they betrayed communism and democracy, their family got special position dislike simple people as they declared),leading by 7-9 big boss（member of the Standing Committee national,somekind like The Presbyterian Church，the chairman Candidates should rise by their decision). Some guys considered China as a dictatorial country because only CPC can lead the way of China. These guys are really too naive,they did not learn an old Chinese idiom: Wherever there are more than one people, there are factions strife. Some big boss stand for red noble（establish people), some are for capitalism, some stick to communism.

Unfortunately, sometimes the one stand for capitalism are stand for the red noble as well, if they win, they shall make this country a real dictator. but not all of the boss capitalists are that stupid, Xi Jinping got the support from both good capitalist and communist boss, because the majority of the politician are patriot, they care China more than The nothingness of the political ideal. After 100 years weakness and being invaded time, we all know that only patriotism can save us from the harsh, only all be assembled as one can help us rise. Basically, we are all Utilitarian from ancient to now, the only one we worship are our Ancestors. our indigenous religion(Taoism)'s god is human, is the symbol of our ancestor. In the past we thought some kind of practice can make a man to a god(superman, like Olympics gods, not the god). if the god brings us benefits, we pretend to worship, if they do not bring benefits, we discard(Emm....elders are often worship several different religions at the same time,wish at least one of them can let his or her wish come true). We treat political philosophy in the same way(of course there are some fanatics,but they are real minority.)

Oh, my discussion goes to far, let us back to nowadays. This year, struggling against corruption is vast exist from officers to the top politic group, they are fight and prison each other by "the name of law", many governors commit suicide or be thrown into prison. as an old Chinese idiom said: who wins, who's the king; who lose, who's the criminal. The majority of people trust Xi, we will wipe some of those established people away to stop the imperialize progress. Also the enemy elders will help us to clean some corrupt governors of Xi's side. As what we did in the ancient, Tang Danasty(the most strong period in China's history), top politicians kill each other for grabbing politic power, use minimal armed force(100-1000 people,not army men), keep the political war far from civilians, and help our country clean and be heal in this progress.

All words above is my perception and cognition on China politics, it's totally not from textbook or propaganda. Wish you guys like it and real percept what China politics is. We are civilians, not barbarian or mindless slaves. When we guys from all over the world talk about China. Could we be more reasonable?

One more thing, Chinesetiger1986 talks too offensive, I should say sorry. You know, on the net, people like him is all over the world. But this kind of comment is not the main stream of the educated(Emm...I mean university educated people) . Don't mind it,have a nice day.

My English is not as good to discuss such a complex topic, hope my word not bring too much language mistake, and you fellow enjoy it.


ClassicMan said:


> Once you open the door for international businesses there is no room left for communism.

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## Keel

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> One picture speaks more than million words. And do you seriously believe that HK will have any future with these clowns?
> 
> View attachment 124958
> 
> 
> View attachment 124959
> 
> 
> View attachment 124960
> 
> 
> View attachment 124961
> 
> 
> View attachment 124962
> 
> 
> View attachment 124963
> 
> 
> View attachment 124964
> 
> 
> View attachment 124965



Shameful and a big disgrace!

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## chinita

not many Chinese people care about the Hong Kong protesters--they are more like a joke to us,maybe we are a joke to them too


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## Keel

kawaraj said:


> I'd say Hong Kong cops shoud be hated. What a bunch of clowns. They are hired to humiliate democracy?
> It's hard to imagine Hong Kong is such lawless place.



The HK police force is well respected
They are adopting an attrition strategy which is working to their favour as this madness progresses
The instigators (of the rally) want to portray "students" as "victims and angels" which is not the case as there is a growing and intense pinch on the populace whose livelihoods are affected as the day goes by with the illegal occupation

不战而屈人之兵 - 孙子兵法

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> Ever wonder how Socialism/Confucianism/Democracy combination would work??
> 
> Socialism for healthcare, public education, parks, library, etc.
> 
> Confucian for ethical teachings of propriety, etiquette, righteousness, trustworthiness, benevolence, virtue
> and loyalty, etc.
> 
> Democracy with the freedom of expression and opinion.
> Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. Freedom of association. Access to power and its exercise in accordance with the rule of law. The holding of periodic free and fair elections by universal suffrage. A pluralistic system of political parties and organizations.
> The independence of the judiciary. Transparency and accountability in public administration. Free, independent and pluralistic media.
> 
> A good example would be this open forum.



Theorietically yes and idealistic only
But in practice there are more democractic systems which have failed and many times due to the covert or subversive manipulation of usa and the western forces

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## AgentOrange

BoQ77 said:


> you cannot represent for "everyone"
> I don't hate them, I support them.



You're a viet who's own government is a corrupt commie dictatorship. More corrupt than the Chinese government, in fact. Therefore, your support is meaningless because you have to do what your corrupt commie government tells you to do. Change your own government before worrying about Hong Kong. Or do you hate Vietnam so much that you are satisfied with being a poor slave? 



he-man said:


> As i said it will happen slowly over decades,,,,,there is simply not much reason for china to be ruled by iron fist now,,,those times are gone.Now chinese are nationalistic and even in a democracy they will be successful.
> 
> The 50-60's were dangerous times for a large country,not anymore



This is a rational comment. Deng Xiaoping himself said that China will evolve politically to look like a large version of Singapore - over time - being the key phrase.

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## BoQ77

AgentOrange said:


> You're a viet who's own government is a corrupt commie dictatorship. More corrupt than the Chinese government, in fact. Therefore, your support is meaningless because you have to do what your corrupt commie government tells you to do. Change your own government before worrying about Hong Kong. Or do you hate Vietnam so much that you are satisfied with being a poor slave?
> 
> .



1. I don't represent for Vietnam government. I'm in same position as HKer.
2. Do you mean HKer have to do what Xi tell them to do?


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## AgentOrange

BoQ77 said:


> 1. I don't represent for Vietnam government. I'm in same position as HKer.
> 2. Do you mean HKer have to do what Xi tell them to do?



What have you done to support democracy in Vietnam? Why do you hate Vietnam so much, the place of your birth, that you aren't out there struggling for Vietnam's democratic revolution but instead fighting for Hong Kong's lost cause?

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## vietnamese_sausage

AgentOrange said:


> You're a viet who's own government is a corrupt commie dictatorship. More corrupt than the Chinese government, in fact. Therefore, your support is meaningless because you have to do what your corrupt commie government tells you to do. Change your own government before worrying about Hong Kong. Or do you hate Vietnam so much that you are satisfied with being a poor slave?
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rational comment. Deng Xiaoping himself said that China will evolve politically to look like a large version of Singapore - over time - being the key phrase.


Vietnam government is corrupt yes. I tried to tell vietnam posters to be more logical if they want to be treated with credibility. If you are poor you can't make fun of someone who is wealthier than you. If you are more corrupt you can't tell someone less corrupt you are worse than me.
I apologize on behalf of the Vietnamese posters.

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## nvKyleBrown

1) I don't hate them.
2) I don't particularly love them either.
3) I think their grievances should be heard, and they community should have a chance to vote on which way to go, rather than CPC dictating what should happen.

There are lots of conflicting stories about what these guys want. My understanding is they want democracy really as a means to the end of protecting HK from perceived mainland intrusions - specifically mainlanders competing for real estate and jobs, causing prices to rise and wages to fall. So the protesters' position is kind of anti-capitalist, really. Certainly not open-borders, free-trade capitalism anyhow.

In that sense, it feels more like a conflict with the CPC representing mainland interests (not being restricted in HK) and HK protesters representing more parochial interests (having more local ability to restrict immigration/competition).

In the long run, cutting out the mainland will not be good for them economically. But, I think that is a choice they should make for themselves. CPC dictating will cause more problems than it solves, in the long run. It will create a feeling of oppression within the local people. Allow a vote, make your case. CPC has a pretty good case to make, I think, in this case.

I support my government assisting other peoples in the world be heard. I don't think the US government should take sides in this particular kerfluffle other than ensuring that voices are not just snuffed out.

Oh, and the photos don't lead me to believe they are more evil - its a bunch of college kids having dinner, playing board games, playing ping pong, and sleeping/cuddling. In the West, you can't have sex with that many clothes on, but perhaps China is ahead of us in that regard.


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## bobsm

Hopefully, this is just the first among many.

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## TaiShang

bobsm said:


> Hopefully, this is just the first among many.
> View attachment 126591



LOL. More leeches on US Department of State payroll, then.

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## Kolaps

*Christians...*


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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> I don't see how that is possible. USA and Western you say? Democracy is harder to establish than fascism. It is a system hardest to achieve and requires lots of elements. Free education is the key to success. The ultimate power lies within your government. If they allow democracy to flourish and distribution of powers than you will have democracy.
> 
> Democracy is like the internet where informations flows freely. People are allowed to freely express their opinions. Here, ideas are constantly exchanged, knowledge are gathered and analyzed by individual. You make the decision of truth or false, right or wrong. You determine if the information is worth analyzing or are they just nonsense? You can choose to read it, comment about it, contribute or just ignore it. Unless your posts are being monitored by your government on your end, or if you are the type that would rather have others make the decision for you, then that would be a different story.
> 
> I am not here to tell you what is right or wrong or to influence you in anyway. This is simply my opinion having lived through multiple types of government systems. This is the matter of your future not mine.



Democracy according to USA?
Have you read the book " legacy of ashes - history of the CIA"
Do you know who is Julian Assange; 
Who is this bloke





Who is this guy





Give me the name of democratic countries ouside of the "USA or NATO's umbrella" that are successful in terms of the combined indices in GDP, per capita income, HDI, Advances in science and technology, crime rate, hospital and health care, welfare and retirement system, defense system, sports performance, education system and scholastic performance, infrastructure

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## Kolaps

Keel said:


> ...................................
> 
> Give me the name of democratic countries ouside of the "USA or NATO's umbrella" that are successful in terms of the combined indices in GDP, per capita income, HDI, Advances in science and technology, crime rate, hospital and health care, welfare and retirement system, defense system, sports performance, education system and scholastic performance, infrastructure



Taiwan!

The world most successful country.

Futuristic UTOPIA..!


Nation of IT.

Extreme low crime rate, street safe for woman even mid-night.

World best no.1 healthcare welfare in the world.

Unmatched defense system, David vs Goliath.

Top ten world finest school and smartest student in the world.

Subway to HSR.


Except we are bankrupt now...


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## Keel

Kolaps said:


> Taiwan!
> 
> The world most successful country.
> 
> Futuristic UTOPIA..!
> 
> 
> Nation of IT.
> 
> Extreme low crime rate, street safe for woman even mid-night.
> 
> World best no.1 healthcare welfare in the world.
> 
> Unmatched defense system, David vs Goliath.
> 
> Top ten world finest school and smartest student in the world.
> 
> Subway to HSR.
> 
> 
> Except we are bankrupt now...



Hahaha
No. Taiwan does not fit in
Taiwan is a big American lapdog! 
And even with that your so called "democracy according to usa" system is in biggest chaos
food safety, sunflower revolution, collapsing infrastructure (leaking gas pipes underground) a less than 3-year-old "state of the art" 2,700-ton scientific research ship just capsized, politics and economy all in limbo and endless in-house fighting ..

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## terranMarine

Taiwan is our rebellious province housing wackos such as Kolaps who thinks the island can sustain itself without Mainland.

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## SledgeHammer

MarkusS said:


> I see no communism in china. its more like hyper capitalism.



Communism is only in the politics, to maintain the hold of CCP on the country.

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## BoQ77

AgentOrange said:


> What have you done to support democracy in Vietnam? Why do you hate Vietnam so much, the place of your birth, that you aren't out there struggling for Vietnam's democratic revolution but instead fighting for Hong Kong's lost cause?



What make you come to that conclusion? 
As a Vietnamese, I never feel hate Vietnam where I was born and now living in.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Tang Yi said:


> One more thing, Chinesetiger1986 talks too offensive, I should say sorry. You know, on the net, people like him is all over the world. But this kind of comment is not the main stream of the educated(Emm...I mean university educated people) . Don't mind it,have a nice day.
> 
> My English is not as good to discuss such a complex topic, hope my word not bring too much language mistake, and you fellow enjoy it.



1. You admit your English is not so good, yet you like insulting people in English, calling them uneducated.
2. How educated are you?
3. Why do you apologize for someone else's actions? You're not his parents, nor teacher, nor supervisor at work, you have no right to apologize on someone's behalf.

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## Tang Yi

SledgeHammer said:


> Communism is only in the politics, to maintain the hold of CCP on the country.


Communism is politics philosophy and ideal society form, maybe it's only a dream, but it's not what you mean, nowadays even governor and officer in China can not got the welfare that communism should provide to everyone.
I suggest you learn more about this noun. you mentioned.


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## Tang Yi

FairAndUnbiased said:


> 1. You admit your English is not so good, yet you like insulting people in English, calling them uneducated.
> 2. How educated are you?
> 3. Why do you apologize for someone else's actions? You're not his parents, nor teacher, nor supervisor at work, you have no right to apologize on someone's behalf.


Communication University of China, a journalist with 7 years work experience,GXTV. My picture is my office. Wanna more information? 
I apologized because he make me feel losing face as his fellow countryman. How did his teacher told him before. Well educated?

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## jkroo

Tang Yi said:


> Communication University of China, a journalist with 7 years work experience,GXTV. My picture is my office. Wanna more information?
> I apologized because he make me feel losing face as his fellow countryman. How did his teacher told him before. Well educated?


Sigh, there are far more people here have higher degree than you. Keep your privacy and that will help you.
You dont need to apologize for others that whether he/she is a Chinese that is a problem.
Keep watching and you will know it.

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## Lux de Veritas

Other than big press and media who keep denigrating HK protesters, 100% of my HK facebook friends are supporting the protest.


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## Snomannen

Lux de Veritas said:


> Other than big press and media who keep denigrating HK protesters, 100% of my HK facebook friends are supporting the protest.


Depends on what kind of friends you have made. I myself got friends from both sides, pro protest and anti protest.


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## Kolaps

Lux de Veritas said:


> Other than big press and media who keep denigrating HK protesters, 100% of my HK facebook friends are supporting the protest.




Your HK friends dare not to support it, there will be a pubic flesh search!


I prefer kindergarten kids who decide HK political fate.


High school and university students never enter the society, what they know about the reality and real society?



terranMarine said:


> Taiwan is our rebellious province housing wackos such as Kolaps who thinks the island can sustain itself without Mainland.



Learn history plz!

20 millions of people saved 1.3 billions of people.


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## Kolaps

Tang Yi said:


> One more thing, Chinesetiger1986 talks too offensive, I should say sorry. You know, on the net, people like him is all over the world. But this kind of comment is not the main stream of the educated(Emm...I mean university educated people) . Don't mind it,have a nice day.
> 
> My English is not as good to discuss such a complex topic, hope my word not bring too much language mistake, and you fellow enjoy it.



Quite right about @ChineseTiger1986. 




Tang Yi said:


> Communication University of China, a journalist with 7 years work experience,GXTV. My picture is my office. Wanna more information?
> I apologized because he make me feel losing face as his fellow countryman. How did his teacher told him before. Well educated?



So you are a journalist?!

You unable and didn't write articles on how to attack back these "foreign worshiper" HK student protesters?

The whole world have been butchered by Western propaganda over HK protest!


And I have tasks for you...

Wrote articles about restoring Confucianism in mainland.

Convince the people and government official... as well as @ChineseTiger1986 above.


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## BoQ77




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## mrfly911

Kolaps said:


> *Christians...*


Could you translate these words to English, plz?


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## Keel

THese clowns are the minority who have their own hidden agenda
JUst ask them if they would allow their own kids wasting their education time to camp out on the streets
24/7

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## AgentOrange

BoQ77 said:


> What make you come to that conclusion?
> As a Vietnamese, I never feel hate Vietnam where I was born and now living in.



I was just curious because I don't see a "support democracy in Vietnam" pin on you. Seeing as how that's your country, one would think you'd care enough to support democracy there first. But apparently you care about Hong Kong more than Vietnam. I'm sure our HK PDFers are very touched.

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## vietnamese_sausage

AgentOrange said:


> I was just curious because I don't see a "support democracy in Vietnam" pin on you. Seeing as how that's your country, one would think you'd care enough to support democracy there first. But apparently you care about Hong Kong more than Vietnam. I'm sure our HK PDFers are very touched.



We want democracy in Vietnam but we know there will be bloodshed and we don't want that. we don't mind bloodshed in hk.


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## vietnamese_sausage

BoQ77 said:


> By Simon Denyer October 10 at 2:25 PM
> HONG KONG — Thousands of people of all ages flocked back into the streets of Hong Kong on Friday evening as the government’s decision to pull out of talks breathed new life into the pro-democracy movement.
> 
> Crowds at the protest sites in the city had been dwindling this week, but speakers said the government had miscalculated if it thought the popular desire for democracy was waning.
> 
> From a makeshift stage, students and other protest leaders were joined by volunteers, doctors, housewives, lawmakers and academics in expressing support for the movement and vowing to continue the struggle until the Hong Kong government responds to their demands for democracy.
> 
> But the loudest cheers of the night were reserved for Joshua Wong, the slight and bespectacled student leader who celebrates his 18th birthday Monday and urged supporters to bring their tents, mattresses, mats and sleeping bags, to fill up every inch of the protest site in central Hong Kong and prepare for a “long-term occupation.”
> 
> “This is our only choice if the government blocks the conversation. We are tired but we don’t want to lose,” he said in Cantonese, before leading the crowd in an English chant of “Democracy now, democracy in Hong Kong, we will never give up.”
> 
> 
> Hong Kong protests have simmered, but students are calling for more demonstrations in response to the government calling off talks. (Reuters)
> Throughout the three-hour rally, speakers and the crowd chanted “Stay on the streets until the end,” “Fight on” and “Protect Hong Kong.”
> 
> “Hong Kong’s determination has created one historic moment after another,” Wong said, demanding that the government apologize for using tear gas at the start of the protests, and threatening to expand the protests if the authorities do not come to the negotiating table.
> 
> Above the stage, banners demanded that Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying step down, called for democracy and justice, warned Taiwan to “beware” of China, and quoted the lyrics from a local pop song imploring people to “hold tight to freedom amid the wind and rain.”
> 
> In Washington, the Congressional-Executive Commission on China said the United States should boost support for democracy in Hong Kong. Beijing responded by saying this was sending the wrong message to demonstrators and called the statement a “deliberate attack” on China.
> 
> Speaking in Berlin, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said the situation in Hong Kong was part of China’s internal affairs and warned other countries to respect China’s sovereignty, news agencies reported.
> 
> “I am sure the people of Hong Kong have the wisdom, and the government has the authority, to preserve the prosperity of the city and also social stability,” he said.
> 
> In Hong Kong, frustration has grown at the prolonged occupation of streets, but the movement still appears to enjoy considerable popular support.
> 
> At the rally at the main protest site, speakers condemned the government’s decision to withdraw from talks with the students that had been planned for Friday, reserving particular ire for Leung and his deputy Carrie Lam, who had been supposed to lead the official delegation.
> 
> “If they had any courage, they should be here facing us,” said Alex Chow, secretary general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students. “I am prepared to talk to Carrie Lam, but where are you? You cannot escape from us — maybe for now, but not forever. You cannot insult us forever. This government has no legitimacy.”
> 
> Academics read out a petition accusing the Chinese government of violating the Basic Law, Hong Kong’s mini-constitution introduced after the handover from British rule, by failing to grant Hong Kong the right to elect its own leaders according to international democratic standards. They also accused the Hong Kong government of unwillingness to talk and to listen to its own citizens, and faulted the police for using tear gas on peaceful protesters at the start of the protests.
> 
> “We condemn the government’s lack of goodwill and its unwillingness to deal with the crisis through genuine dialogue,” said retired professor Ho Chi-kwan, reading a petition that she said had been signed by 140 academics in less than five hours Friday.
> 
> On Thursday, Lam, the territory’s chief secretary for administration, said the government did not believe talks could be held in a constructive atmosphere while the protests continued, but she also demanded that the students accept the Chinese Communist Party’s ruling in August that effectively closed the door on democracy for the former British colony.
> 
> That decision stipulated that only candidates acceptable to Beijing would be allowed to stand in elections planned for 2017 to elect Leung’s replacement. Protesters want an open field of candidates, arguing that the current system produces a chief executive who behaves as if he is answerable only to Beijing and who does not defend the interests of the people of Hong Kong.
> 
> Just as the use of tear gas was a major recruiting factor for the protests two weeks ago, the government’s decision to back out of talks appeared to have galvanized popular anger this week.
> 
> In the crowd, there was little optimism that Beijing would back down, but rather a sense that Hong Kong had been irrevocably changed by the protests and that the current system — where Beijing rules the territory by proxy through a narrow political and business elite — was unsustainable.
> 
> “I am extremely moved by this, by how people came out to do this,” said Kenneth Wong, a 24-year-old fashion designer who planned to stay the night at the site with a friend. “It’s like a battle you can’t win. It’s really sad the government won’t take any step to try to achieve a consensus. But the government has definitely underestimated the power of the people.”
> 
> Meanwhile, the China Human Rights Defenders group said police across China had taken into custody dozens of activists, petitioners, artists and other citizens who had posted messages online or gathered to show support for the protesters. The majority of the detentions took place in Beijing.
> 
> Daniela Deane in Rome contributed to this report.



go Joshua! vietnam support you.


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## Keel

Look at these low lives (not the police). They are the ugliest joke

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> The pictures of the two men you have attached is a subject matter of national security and foreign affairs of that country.
> 
> Democracy is a work in progress. It comes in many forms. Just to name a few non-Nato countries in no particular order.
> 
> New Zealand, Japan, Argentina, Australia, and South Korea.
> 
> You young people are smart and well educated. You know what is best for yourself.
> 
> Thank you for taking your time out to discuss this topic with a classic man as myself. But it is past my nap time.



All the photos / person named above are revealing the farce of american democracy and its hegemonial atrocities over the world
Vietnam is a victim of the american imperialist
The book has revealed cia's subversive operations against foreign governments which do not take american's order albeit democratically elected

Read my related post again.

"New Zealand, Japan, Argentina, Australia, and South Korea." - all except Argentina are under the protection of usa
Argentina in great chaos

Now go back to sleep please

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> The gem cannot be polished without friction.



Gems dont bleed nor a piece of ordinary low value rock be manipulated and offered as high value gems

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## LowPost

Keel said:


> "New Zealand, Japan, Argentina, Australia, and South Korea." - all except Argentina are under the protection of usa
> Argentina in great chaos



Argentina is an MNNA too  But not to a big extent as the rest, bear in mind Afghanistan and Pakistan are considered MNNAs as well and look at their diplomatic stance


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## Keel

rugering said:


> Argentina is an MNNA too  But not to a big extent as the rest, bear in mind Afghanistan and Pakistan are considered MNNAs as well and look at their diplomatic stance



I am also saying Argentina's MNNA (so as to argue against Classic Man's claim) but its political, economic situations ..etc are in great chaos

In fact Argentina along with Brazil and many S American countries are politically against America


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## Keel



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## ChineseTiger1986

Tang Yi said:


> Communication University of China, a journalist with 7 years work experience,GXTV. My picture is my office. Wanna more information?
> I apologized because he make me feel losing face as his fellow countryman. How did his teacher told him before. Well educated?



哥我最讨厌的就是你们这群自以为是的煞笔文科生，你们的数理化最TM的烂。

别以为满脑子写一些乱七八糟的东西就能成社会的精英了，中国今天的成就和你们这些傻逼文科生没有半毛关系。


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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> President Xi is a wise man. He will not let China go into a civil war. Have some faith in him. China citizen will have a form of democracy under his leadership. I am pretty sure.



Any fundamental change in political system MUST be made with well controlled progression otherwise big social unrest and gruesome bloodbath will follow

Right now we do not see the need for a change, let alone changing drastically

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## ChineseTiger1986

ClassicMan said:


> President Xi is a wise man. He will not let China go into a civil war. Have some faith in him. China citizen will have a form of democracy under his leadership. I am pretty sure.



This will be the particular form of democracy being strengthened under his leadership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_democracy_(Marxism–Leninism)

People's democratic dictatorship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Tang Yi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 哥我最讨厌的就是你们这群自以为是的煞笔文科生，你们的数理化最TM的烂。
> 
> 别以为满脑子写一些乱七八糟的东西就能成社会的精英了，中国今天的成就和你们这些傻逼文科生没有半毛关系。


Hey,hey,hey! Is this the way you used to show your reputation? well educated.
I do not use Chinese to communicate in this forum. Think about how's you feel if two foreigner besides you talked in their own language and you did understand nothing.

Science students in solving the problem of economy and technology, liberal arts students to solve the socialproblems, do not to be so offensive dude, you shall only get lack of reputation on this way.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Tang Yi said:


> Hey,hey,hey! Is this the way you used to show your reputation? well educated.
> I do not use Chinese to communicate in this forum. Think about how's you feel if two foreigner besides you talked in their own language and you did understand nothing.
> 
> Science students in solving the problem of economy and technology, liberal arts students to solve the socialproblems, do not to be so offensive dude, you shall only get lack of reputation on this way.



I am busy these days, so i don't have much time to waste with you.

I will call a "洋自干五" like @Beidou2020 to deal with a liberal like you.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

China has rule of law to handle demonstrations not sure why they are complaining China is doing great financially

I think even if initially there would be some loss in Hong Kong gradually the situation would change as China is doing great as Nation


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## nvKyleBrown

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China has rule of law to handle demonstrations not sure why they are complaining China is doing great financially
> 
> I think even if initially there would be some loss in Hong Kong gradually the situation would change as China is doing great as Nation


As I understand it, the core complaint is that the mainland getting richer has led to mainlanders moving into/visiting HK. The new money coming into town causes upward pressure on rent, and downward pressure on wages. So, the HK locals are hoping to restrict the flow somewhat. What exactly they are proposing seems a bit vague - at the moment it's just "let us pick our own leaders (so they can restrict the flow)". But, my understanding could be flawed.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well to be honest , migration of people to coastal areas is natural rich people move to coastal cities

Many Hong Kong rich have migrated to Britain or Canada or US took their millions and started companies there

The void is just simply being filled by New investors from Main Land China

Not sure what the problem is? If you have money you can also own the land and start businesses why force the rich people to not invest in local city


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## Tang Yi

Kolaps said:


> Quite right about @ChineseTiger1986.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are a journalist?!
> 
> You unable and didn't write articles on how to attack back these "foreign worshiper" HK student protesters?
> 
> The whole world have been butchered by Western propaganda over HK protest!
> 
> 
> And I have tasks for you...
> 
> Wrote articles about restoring Confucianism in mainland.
> 
> Convince the people and government official... as well as @ChineseTiger1986 above.



Emm....in my view, what you suggested is meaningless, this young protester look so familiar in chinese memory, remenber？culture revolution. 

They are young, easy to be fanned, gathered to be force, with endless passion, be opinionated, radical, never learn to be compromise in negotiation, they don't even know what politics really is.

45 years ago, this kind of student heard Mao's call. with Mao's political support, they walk on the street, kill their teachers, governors, and somebody others un-within their side, for beat down the established un-communism authority. My god, they did this for communism, but they even did not know what communism really is. They rob police and army men for guns(police dare even not to arrest them because of the "politics right" in that decade), later these students have factions, lead by different ideal madman or careerist, they shoot each other, piece each other with knives, and torch poor political weaker ones, thousands died per day, totally anarchism.

We have got enough lesson from this, and this will never back to stage, teenagers are already under control. So what are you worry about? If they did legally, they are a joke. If they did illegally, prison are waiting for them.

Write article to fight back is meaningless, you can never wake up a man of no knowledge, or a man pretended sleeping. Words is weak, dare those men who scold us really attack China? Attack the permanent members of the UN security council？Attack a state with nuke? 

I suggest to care more about our internal affairs, outer world will only respect those who are rich and strong. when we had more than 3 times of the US GDP, no word can make us angry.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Tang Yi said:


> Emm....in my view, what you suggested is meaningless, this young protester look so familiar in chinese memory, remenber？culture revolution.
> 
> They are young, easy to be fanned, gathered to be force, with endless passion, be opinionated, radical, never learn to be compromise in negotiation, they don't even know what politics really is.
> 
> 45 years ago, this kind of student heard Mao's call. with Mao's political support, they walk on the street, kill their teachers, governors, and somebody others un-within their side, for beat down the established un-communism authority. My god, they did this for communism, but they even did not know what communism really is. They rob police and army men for guns(police dare even not to arrest them because of the "politics right" in that decade), later these students have factions, lead by different ideal madman or careerist, they shoot each other, piece each other with knives, and torch poor political weaker ones, thousands died per day, totally anarchism.
> 
> We have got enough lesson from this, and this will never back to stage, teenagers are already under control. So what are you worry about? If they did legally, they are a joke. If they did illegally, prison are waiting for them.
> 
> Write article to fight back is meaningless, you can never wake up a man of no knowledge, or a man pretended sleeping. Words is weak, dare those men who scold us really attack China? Attack the permanent members of the UN security council？Attack a state with nuke?
> 
> I suggest to care more about our internal affairs, outer world will only respect those who are rich and strong. when we had more than 3 times of the US GDP, no word can make us angry.



The students in the 1920-1930s did the right thing to oppose a traitorous regime like KMT.

But today's HK students have simply picked the wrong side in the history.

By comparing those HK monkeys to our patriotic pro-CPC students is simply a great insult.

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## AgentOrange

vietnamese_sausage said:


> We want democracy in Vietnam but we know there will be bloodshed and we don't want that. we don't mind bloodshed in hk.



So you're cowards whose convictions are less than meaningless. Too scared to fight for democracy in your own country but support bloodshed in a city where Viets, as an impoverished and looked-down-upon underclass have zero influence. I mean unless all the city janitors and maids go on strike. 

Even more reason to tune out Viet commie slaves when they open their yap. Got it.

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## Tang Yi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The students in the 1920-1930s did the right thing to oppose a traitorous regime like KMT.
> 
> But today's HK students have simply picked the wrong side in the history.
> 
> By comparing those HK monkeys to our patriotic pro-CPC students is simply a great insult.


Students of 45 years ago(1968) were also monkeys, they did everything ugly to chase their ideal, but they did not know what their ideal is. No matter what the ideal is, communism, capitalism, democracy, freedom, human right, all of it are bullshit. They did not know how to really chase it，they just want to vent their adrenaline.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Tang Yi said:


> Students of 45 years ago(1968) were also monkeys, they did everything ugly to chase their ideal, but they did not know what their ideal is. No matter what the ideal is, communism, capitalism, democracy, freedom, human right, all of it are bullshit. They did not know how to really chase it，they just want to vent their adrenaline.



Sure, the war against those corrupt bureaucrats has been hijacked by the far-left opportunists (nowadays they can be far-right as well) and totally went out of control.

I am against the far-left, but I am even more against the far-right, because they are the same bullsh1t.

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## Rent

ClassicMan said:


> Once you open the door for international businesses there is no room left for communism.


You and @MarkusS have been relating business and government together. I see it through now. Here is my interpretation by observing the similarity between the two.

Government is much like a business. If employees fear their boss, they will not be able to communicate their ideas efficiently or may become rebellious. If the boss fears his skilled employees, work may become delayed and the company will fail. In order for success to have profits and raises, both sides must work towards the common goal in mutual respect.

A Boss must not try not dictate, he delegates and adopt the role of a wise leader to guide his employees into building up a reputable company. Only then will his employees become his pillars and contribute to the company's success. Thus, if you tighten a knot too tight is will snap. If you loosen it a little it will hold.

A good Boss must allow his employee to voice their concerns and not oppress them. He gathers his managers to fix the issue not bandage or sweep it aside. 

Employee must have confident and not be afraid to speak their mind in order to gain the value of his employer. 

Balance is the key here.

Thank you for this enlightenment.

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## Lux de Veritas

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am busy these days, so i don't have much time to waste with you.
> 
> I will call a "洋自干五" like @Beidou2020 to deal with a liberal like you.





Tang Yi said:


> Hey,hey,hey! Is this the way you used to show your reputation? well educated.
> I do not use Chinese to communicate in this forum. Think about how's you feel if two foreigner besides you talked in their own language and you did understand nothing.
> 
> Science students in solving the problem of economy and technology, liberal arts students to solve the socialproblems, do not to be so offensive dude, you shall only get lack of reputation on this way.



Mao will be proud of HK students. He did the far more exciting thing by going to Anyuan to commit terrorism.


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## TaiShang

*Anti-Occupy crowds to force demonstrators out of streets*

A group of people against the "Occupy Central" movement in Hong Kong have initiated an assembly to gather people's signatures to demand demonstrators leave the streets.

Leticia Lee, an organizer of the anti-Occupy assembly, says they aim to gather more support from local residents to put an end to the occupation actions.

*"We have had enough of this. Over the past weeks, the movement has brought us many inconveniences and troubles, especially to the residents in Mong Kok. We have received many complaints as you can see a mess there."*

Lee also said that they will launch a "counter-encirclement" movement to push the occupants to evacuate from the street if the government does not clear them before Tuesday.

Hong Kong has witnessed waves of demonstrators blockading roads in key commercial areas, disrupting traffic and business activities over the past two weeks.

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## nvKyleBrown

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Well to be honest , migration of people to coastal areas is natural rich people move to coastal cities
> 
> Many Hong Kong rich have migrated to Britain or Canada or US took their millions and started companies there
> 
> The void is just simply being filled by New investors from Main Land China
> 
> Not sure what the problem is? If you have money you can also own the land and start businesses why force the rich people to not invest in local city


In my earlier reply, I basically agreed with you - in the long run, the HK protesters have the wrong idea (if i understand what they want correctly). But, it's their city, they should get to vote on it. I think the mainland government has a pretty good argument to make, so have the discussion and vote. Persuade rather than forcing.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

True , for me I just don't understand Hong Kong local folks logic , sure in short term you see alot of local folks migrating for last 10 years to Canada, UK , Australia or US but you also need to understand Chinese businessmen will bring their wealth into Hong Kong and they should accept this are reality now 

One thing I know is that after the British rule ended in Hong Kong there were massive migration of ultra rick Hong Kong residents to other countries and China has nothing to do with that 

It would be strange if lets say New Yorkers said , no to anyone from other US states coming into their state for investment or buying property ...


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## terranMarine

The more damage HK sustains, the more people will speak out against the continuation of this meaningless protest. Even people with pro Democracy mindset are feeling the effects of the disrupted city. CY has already announced the current situation has spiraled out of control by the protesters which the protesters have denied in response to Leung's remark.

Despite foreign intervention with this crap Democracy agenda, foreign business will also suffer too. It's a double edge sword

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## Lux de Veritas

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> True , for me I just don't understand Hong Kong local folks logic , sure in short term you see alot of local folks migrating for last 10 years to Canada, UK , Australia or US but you also need to understand Chinese businessmen will bring their wealth into Hong Kong and they should accept this are reality now
> 
> One thing I know is that after the British rule ended in Hong Kong there were massive migration of ultra rick Hong Kong residents to other countries and China has nothing to do with that
> 
> It would be strange if lets say New Yorkers said , no to anyone from other US states coming into their state for investment or buying property ...



Actually the peasant PRC hate the rentier landlordism 土地财政 in PRC as well just that there is a conspiracy of silence that no PRC commenter want to point out.

China has 300 years frequency of civil war and everyone of these are due to idle landlord imposing a rent, sucking the peasant dry until the peasant decided to murder every single landlord. The last one occur in 1950s where Mao put millions of landlord to sleep.

After Mao died, old habbit die hard, landlordism come back. HK government is supported by corrupt landlord and property developer and all these policies are rigged against the peasants. The people fumed. Meanwhile these tycoon hijack PRC to support them.

So one of the desire of HK people is a more democratic election the send someone on top, to break the landlord grip on them.

*ALL East Asian society has rampant and runaway property inflation where official media tout it something like "asset enhancement"*. Go and see in Singapore, Japan, HK, PRC, Taiwan,Korea...etc

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Unfortunately if the landlords own the *deed legally* , i.e they own the land , they can raise rent or do what they want provided its with in reach of locals to pay rent.

China can't do much about such thing other then make sure rent is with in the limits of payable bills , Hong Kong folks should focus on working hard to enjoy living on coastal cities or migrate to inland china

All Coastal cities have high rent

Other then that the should have tried to raise awareness about issues in election or political movements with out going to extremes

Example: If this was situation in USA, and some rich folk owned all the apartment buildings in New York , guess what he can raise the rent as much as he wanted its called capitalism.

The only case that people can make in this case is argue , we make 1000$ / month and the rent should be only 25% of our monthly income not more and see if China can force the landlord to reduce rent , low chances but that could happen if salaries are low in Hong Kong


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## Lux de Veritas

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Unfortunately if the landlords own the *deed legally* , i.e they own the land , they can raise rent or do what they want provided its with in reach of locals to pay rent.
> 
> China can't do much about such thing other then make sure rent is with in the limits of payable bills , Hong Kong folks should focus on working hard to enjoy living on coastal cities or migrate to inland china
> 
> All Coastal cities have high rent
> 
> Other then that the should have tried to raise awareness about issues in election or political movements with out going to extremes
> 
> Example: If this was situation in USA, and some rich folk owned all the apartment buildings in New York , guess what he can raise the rent as much as he wanted its called capitalism.
> 
> The only case that people can make in this case is argue , we make 1000$ / month and the rent should be only 25% of our monthly income not more and see if China can force the landlord to reduce rent , low chances but that could happen if salaries are low in Hong Kong



Almost all landlord in east asian land prosper through crime, including Singapore. Give you one example.

PRC landlords/property developer/corrupt government got their wealth by evicting peasants, and arbitrate by selling the lands to property developer or companies owned by themselves.

Most of PRC "mass incidence" are due to landlord eviction but the profit are so massive that PRC corrupt officials would rather want that monies.

People burning themselves because government want their land and their wealth.





Wukan protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most serious anti government mass movement in recent years was in Wukan, again, the PRC corrupt officials try take land and profit massively on behalf of poor.






*HK and Singapore governments are doing the same thing but they are more skillful by using unfair regulations and conceal their act using financial engineering.*

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## Kyle Sun

Lux de Veritas said:


> The most serious anti government mass movement in recent years was in Wukan, again, the PRC corrupt officials try take land and profit massively on behalf of poor.
> 
> View attachment 128735
> 
> 
> *HK and Singapore governments are doing the same thing but they are more skillful by using unfair regulations and conceal their act using financial engineering.*



When and where ? I mean the protest scene not the self-burning


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## jkroo

Tang Yi said:


> Hey,hey,hey! Is this the way you used to show your reputation? well educated.
> I do not use Chinese to communicate in this forum. Think about how's you feel if two foreigner besides you talked in their own language and you did understand nothing.
> 
> Science students in solving the problem of economy and technology, liberal arts students to solve the socialproblems, do not to be so offensive dude, you shall only get lack of reputation on this way.


Oh, no. Just stop and back to the topic.
老虎是论坛中比较温和的海归了，别在英文论坛中瞎打架了，拜托。

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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong residents angry about protesters*
CCTV.com

Many people in Hong Kong say their lives and businesses have been disrupted by the "Occupy Central" movement.

Some protesters set up beds on the streets, while others play cards, mahjong, badminton and table tennis in the middle of the road. In Mong Kok, some protesters even set up hot pots to eat together, angering residents and merchants in the neighbourhood. 

In Causeway Bay, residents gathered together to demand that the protesters to stop holding concerts at night. The Mong Kok area has been listed as "high-risk" by the police, with a higher chance clashes between angry residents and protesters. Local residents have been speaking out.

"These protesters shouldn't pursue political demands this way. I think Hong Kong society and people’s daily lives will be affected if these protests continue. Now people face traffic jams when they go out or go to work. These protesters want to disrupt public order," a Hong Kong citizen said.


*HK lawmakers seek to probe who is behind protests*







While protesters continue to remain on the streets, the House Committee of the Hong Kong Legislative Council has passed a motion proposing an investigation into who is behind the Occupy Central movement.

The proposed motion, which will be discussed at the General Assembly on October 29th, still needs approval from other committees of the Hong Kong Legislative Council.

Many legislative members from the House Committee say the organization and mobilization capabilities of the Occupy Central movement are beyond imagination.

They believe the Legislative Council has the responsibility to establish a special committee to investigate who is planning and providing funds for the protesters.

*Foreign role?*
The motion comes amidst growing friction between China and the US with regard to the protests.

On Thursday, the US Congressional-executive Commission on China released an annual report, saying that the US should follow Hong Kong’s democratic development, enhance exchanges with the region and deploy senior officials there.

The report led to a strong response from the Chinese Foreign Ministry, which said that “no foreign government, organization or individual has the right to get involved in Hong Kong’s affairs, which are purely internal matter for China,” according to a People’s Daily report.

Adding to the debate, the People’s Daily also published a commentary piece on Saturday, arguing that Louisa Greve, a Director of the US-based National Endowment for Democracy, “was already meeting with the key people from Occupy Central several months ago, to talk about the movement.”

The US, for its part, has rejected claims that it has had a role to play in the protests. The Associated Press quotes State Department spokesperson Marie Harf as saying that it ” categorically rejects accusations that we are manipulating the activities of any person, group or political party in Hong Kong.”

*Cyber attacks & counter protests
*
Meanwhile, in Hong Kong, 11 people suspected of attacking government Internet networks have been arrested.

Nearly 54 non-government websites have also been hacked during the Occupy Central movement, the police said on Saturday. If found guilty, they could all face up to 5 years in jail.

Disruptions to daily life such as these have led to more and more people opposing the Occupy Central movement.

Now one such group has launched a petition campaign in the Mong Kok neighborhood, calling for the government to clear demonstrators.

The group calls itself the Blue Ribbon campaign and has been extending support to Hong Kong police.

It says that it hopes the SAR government will clear the main protest sites before Tuesday. Otherwise, it could begin an anti-Occupy action to take back the roads for the residents.


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## vietnamese_sausage

TaiShang said:


> The report led to a strong response from the Chinese Foreign Ministry, which said that “no foreign government, organization or individual has the right to get involved in Hong Kong’s affairs, which are purely internal matter for China,”


 
Whoa, such strong words almost like threat 



TaiShang said:


> If found guilty, they could all face up to 5 years in jail



Whoa, such tough justice!


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## TaiShang

By the way, yesterday, there was a certain demonstration in the US suppressed by overwhelming and violent police response:

Is HK police too soft? I guess not. That's the right attitude by a public security agency.

*St. Louis police arrest protestors*




Police start to move in and make arrests of protestors that do a sit-in at a convenience store in Shaw neighborhood of St. Louis, the United States, on Oct. 12, 2014. St. Louis police arrested more than a dozen protestors and used pepper spray and chemical agents like tear gas upon the protestors Sunday morning. (Xinhua/Dane Iwata)

​

Police push protestors back at a convenience store in Shaw neighborhood of St. Louis, the United States, on Oct. 12, 2014. St. Louis police arrested more than a dozen protestors and used pepper spray and chemical agents like tear gas upon the protestors Sunday morning. (Xinhua/Dane Iwata)

​

Police keep advancing on protestors in Shaw neighborhood of St. Louis, the United States, on Oct. 12, 2014. St. Louis police arrested more than a dozen protestors and used pepper spray and chemical agents like tear gas upon the protestors Sunday morning. (Xinhua/Dane Iwata)

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## Keel

"Police keep advancing on protestors in Shaw neighborhood of St. Louis, the United States, on Oct. 12, 2014. St. Louis police arrested more than a dozen protestors and used pepper spray and chemical agents like tear gas upon the protestors Sunday morning. "

The size of protesters looked a lot smaller than those stupid revellers in "Occupy Central" and yet pepper spray, tear gases were deployed. This should be shown to the trouble makers in HK

this is perhaps the 6th clashes between the us police against the black folks within the last few weeks in america
For over 1 century America has been trying to eradicate racial discrimination in their "greatest democracy" but is there any success?

What are the revellers in "Occupy Cenral" crying about when China gives them the dawn of democracy just 17 years after the handover while the Brits have totally denied them of the system for 150 years of colonial reign?

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## BoQ77

not easy to just strip off those people what they achieved.


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## Keel

*Hong Kong Police Remove Protester Barricades, Occupy Central Says*
Reuters
Posted: 10/12/2014 8:26 pm EDT Updated: 10/12/2014 8:59 pm EDT










HONG KONG, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Hong Kong police began on Monday to remove barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters who have occupied several sites around the Chinese-controlled city for two weeks, according to protest group Occupy Central.

At the main protest site, around government offices in the downtown district of Admiralty, scores of student protesters faced off with police who were massing in the area, a Reuters witness said. The Hong Kong government has said the demonstrations are illegal. (Reporting by Donny Kwok and Farah Master)

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## Kolaps

Tang Yi said:


> Emm....in my view, what you suggested is meaningless, this young protester look so familiar in chinese memory, remenber？culture revolution.
> 
> They are young, easy to be fanned, gathered to be force, with endless passion, be opinionated, radical, never learn to be compromise in negotiation, they don't even know what politics really is.
> 
> 45 years ago, this kind of student heard Mao's call. with Mao's political support, they walk on the street, kill their teachers, governors, and somebody others un-within their side, for beat down the established un-communism authority. My god, they did this for communism, but they even did not know what communism really is. They rob police and army men for guns(police dare even not to arrest them because of the "politics right" in that decade), later these students have factions, lead by different ideal madman or careerist, they shoot each other, piece each other with knives, and torch poor political weaker ones, thousands died per day, totally anarchism.
> 
> We have got enough lesson from this, and this will never back to stage, teenagers are already under control. So what are you worry about? If they did legally, they are a joke. If they did illegally, prison are waiting for them.
> 
> Write article to fight back is meaningless, you can never wake up a man of no knowledge, or a man pretended sleeping. Words is weak, dare those men who scold us really attack China? Attack the permanent members of the UN security council？Attack a state with nuke?
> 
> I suggest to care more about our internal affairs, outer world will only respect those who are rich and strong. when we had more than 3 times of the US GDP, no word can make us angry.



Why mainland journalist unable to win HK young people heart?

Instead they prefer what pro-democracy controlled media say?


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I think what Chinese government need to do is investigate who started the propaganda to get all these people into central city 
because it appears to be an organized method , and the reasoning or logic is illogical 

China is making Trillion dollar profits , Hong Kong is still the same 

Some outside force is stirring this up and this needs to be investigated at once


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## Lux de Veritas

Kolaps said:


> Why mainland journalist unable to win HK young people heart?
> 
> Instead they prefer what pro-democracy controlled media say?





AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I think what Chinese government need to do is investigate who started the propaganda to get all these people into central city
> because it appears to be an organized method , and the reasoning or logic is illogical
> 
> China is making Trillion dollar profits , Hong Kong is still the same
> 
> Some outside force is stirring this up and this needs to be investigated at once



There are multi dimension factor in HK protest. These are
1) Western fomenting protest
2) HK people rise up against elite
3) HK people want democracy

PRC commenters would rather prefer framed it under western vs China. HK people indeed are not align to PRC values. However, diversity is exactly the strong point of HK. If PRC get rid of all opposing forces in HK, HK will no longer be unique and will be yet another PRC city.

In fact, elements of chaos are inherent in all democratic system. Only N Korea-ism is completely sanitized. The existence of chaos enable democratic countries to be resilient against shock.

PRC looks strong but she is inherently fragile. As we can see, a normal harmless protest common in all western states threaten to diminish the prestige and offer precedence against central government.

India can survive hundreds of thousands of violent protest. State of India will still be there even she screw up big time, fighting civil war, fight terrorist, losing wars, inactions against famine, dieseases and malnutrient...etc Any of these happening in PRC can bring the whole country down.

The structural instability of PRC against shock is what PRC needs to improve on for long term sustainability.


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## BoQ77

Keel said:


> *Hong Kong Police Remove Protester Barricades, Occupy Central Says*
> Reuters
> Posted: 10/12/2014 8:26 pm EDT Updated: 10/12/2014 8:59 pm EDT
> 
> 
> HONG KONG, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Hong Kong police began on Monday to remove barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters who have occupied several sites around the Chinese-controlled city for two weeks, according to protest group Occupy Central.
> 
> At the main protest site, around government offices in the downtown district of Admiralty, scores of student protesters faced off with police who were massing in the area, a Reuters witness said. The Hong Kong government has said the demonstrations are illegal. (Reporting by Donny Kwok and Farah Master)



Interesting ...
Hong Kong police remove barricades, say protesters can remain| Reuters

*Hong Kong police remove barricades, say protesters can remain*

(Reuters) - Hong Kong police removed some barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters at key sites in the heart of the city on Monday to relieve traffic chaos that has plagued some districts during rush hour.

Many police withdrew after the barriers were removed, a Reuters witness said. A police negotiator told Reuters that protesters could remain in the area.

The Hong Kong government has said the demonstrations are illegal.

(Reporting By Donny Kwok; Writing by Anne Marie Roantree; Editing by Michael Perry)




-----------------------
*Hong Kong protests: Hundreds of unidentified people try to break down barricades, scuffles with protesters*
Hahaha - Red guards coming with multi tools for stabbing...
Chinese police so bad in anti-terrorists ...

Hong Kong protests: Hundreds of unidentified people try to break down barricades, scuffles with protesters - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)




*Photo:* A masked anti-Occupy Central protester holds pliers as he cuts cable ties at barricades setup as road blocks. (Reuters: Tyrone Siu) 
*Related Story:* Hong Kong's leader warns protesters have 'lost control'
 *Map: * Hong Kong
Hundreds of unidentified people, some wearing masks, have tried to break down protest barriers in the heart of Hong Kong's business district, scuffling with protesters who have occupied the streets for the past two weeks.

Taxi drivers, opposed to the protests which have seriously affected their business, surrounded some barricades as police tried to protect protesters. ( most of taxi drivers are immigrants from mainland )

Earlier Monday, Hong Kong police started to remove barriers erected by pro-democracy protesters who have occupied several sites around the city, which is ruled under China's "one country, two systems" principle.

At the main protest site around government offices in the downtown district of Admiralty, scores of student protesters faced off with police who were massing in the area.

The Hong Kong government has said the demonstrations are illegal.

On Sunday night, the city's chief executive, Leung Chun-Ying, said the protesters had "almost zero chance" of changing Beijing's stance and securing free elections.

Overnight, student numbers dwindled and some were caught unawares by the police action.

The police were dressed in high-visibility jackets but were not wearing riot gear.

Police also gathered at a secondary site in Mongkok, according to television reports.

Demonstrators calling for Beijing to grant full democracy to the former British colony have brought parts of Hong Kong to a standstill over the past fortnight.

There have been clashes with elements who oppose the blockades and widespread disruption.

Despite repeated orders to disperse, the rallies have taken on an air of permanence with tents, portable showers and lecture venues, drawing thousands of people in recent evenings.

After police were criticised for unleashing tear gas on the earliest rallies, Mr Leung said that if the government had to clear the protests sites, police would use a "minimum amount of force".


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The protestors need to go home , and next day wake up and go do work make money stop wasting time , China is #1 nation in world what else can you ask for you live in best country in world already , try going to Detroit and look for job then you will see how difficult things are

China - Best Economy
China - Best in Manufacturing
China - Best in Trade
China - Best in Defence products
China - Every one wears Soccer Shirts Made in China !!! 

Hong Kong folks need to understand if they want better lives they will have to work harder for it

Right now 2014, October something date , 98% of stuff sold in USA is made in China !!!

Only thing not made in China is American babies and few cars from Ford Company rest is all China

Before Hong Kong residents stated well we don't have real estate no room just small island
Well now if you have money you can move to main land china start company there

Why protest ? Makes no sense really - Every one wants to move to China , ask any US student he sill say I want to move to China to learn chinese good for future employment

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## TaiShang

Keel said:


> *Hong Kong Police Remove Protester Barricades, Occupy Central Says*
> Reuters
> Posted: 10/12/2014 8:26 pm EDT Updated: 10/12/2014 8:59 pm EDT
> 
> View attachment 129357
> 
> View attachment 129358
> 
> 
> HONG KONG, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Hong Kong police began on Monday to remove barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters who have occupied several sites around the Chinese-controlled city for two weeks, according to protest group Occupy Central.
> 
> At the main protest site, around government offices in the downtown district of Admiralty, scores of student protesters faced off with police who were massing in the area, a Reuters witness said. The Hong Kong government has said the demonstrations are illegal. (Reporting by Donny Kwok and Farah Master)



No need to go hard on them like this below since the protesting guys are so far peaceful.













BoQ77 said:


> Hundreds of *unidentified people* try to break down barricades, scuffles with protesters



So, all the hundreds of occupy-protesters are *"identifiable?*"

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## Danish saleem

Two demonstration, very very identical to each other, and in both demonstration one thing is common ! China.

One Demonstration is in Hongkong! Business hub of China.
One Demonstration in Islamabad! Biggest ely of China.

in both the demonstrations , their demands are same,

1. Democracy.
2. Rule of Law
3. get rid of shame democracy.

Both the demonstrations ask their governments to fulfill their demands, otherwise they will capture the Government buildings.

Its now confirmed that Protestors leader were met in london, and their is some involvement of MI6 Also .


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## BoQ77

*Hong Kong (CNN)* -- Rowdy scenes erupted at the main Occupy Central protest site in Hong Kong on Monday after hundreds of people opposing the pro-democracy occupation tried to tear down protest barricades.

Police formed a human chain to separate the protesters and people intent on breaking up their three-week long occupation of the Admiralty district, near the city's financial center.

Dozens of men, some wearing surgical masks, were seen jostling with protesters and demanding that police remove the barricades and clear the roads, according to live images from local television station iCable.

They were heard screaming at protesters, accusing them of damaging their livelihoods. The television commentator identified them as taxi drivers, transport industry workers and other people who said they weren't affiliated with any groups.

However,* protesters could be heard yelling, "there are triads here*," a reference to criminal gangs in the city known for controlling smuggling, prostitution and illegal gambling rings.

Police on loudspeakers called for calm, and eventually convinced protesters to form a corridor to allow their opponents to leave.

Earlier, police started to remove barricades from protest sites in Admiralty and Mong Kok, but issued a statement saying they were moving "obstacles" to relieve traffic "not to clear the scene."






Photos: Hong Kong unrest

Police "pushed back a couple of barricades, dismantling them," said CNN's Ivan Watson, from the Admiralty protest site earlier on Monday. He said the protesters had responded by moving their tents closer to the barrier but the streets had remained peaceful.

Clashes as masked men rush Hong Kong protest barricades - ASIA
--------------------------
Dozens of masked men rushed barricades at Hong Kong's main pro-democracy site Oct. 13, triggering clashes as demonstrators tried to push them back and police struggled to contain the chaos.

Groups of men, many wearing surgical masks, descended on the front lines of the rally at Admiralty near Hong Kong's central business district, hours after police had moved in to remove some barricades and shrink the site.

Two of the men were tackled to the ground by police, who also formed a cordon around the masked group.

Protesters, who have come under attack from organised crime gangs known as triads at another flashpoint rally site in Mongkok, shouted: "Weapons! Weapons!" and "Arrest the triads".

Television footage showed one masked man being forced to drop a small flick-knife.

taxi drivers, many of whom have voiced frustration with more than two weeks of protests which have blocked roads and caused traffic gridlock, added to the fray by converging on the site in their cars, beeping horns and shouting at demonstrators. 

Some had "We can't take it any more" printed on the fronts of their cabs. 

Other groups opposed to the "Occupy" pro-democracy campaign also appeared at Admiralty, chanting "Occupy is illegal" and demanding that roads be reopened.

Police formed a line in front of the anti-Occupy protesters as trucks with cranes arrived on the scene and began removing barricades, an AFP photographer saw. 
October/13/2014


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## Lux de Veritas

I think this is a good opportunity for PRC to learn shock absorbing. The central government should trivialized the protest. Let those students make noise for a few weeks and let it be a "new normal". Let people get use to it.

India can survive thousands of protest each year, and she has becoming very shock absorbent. Not even civil war, famine or protest can take down state of India. Similarly PRC should learn likewise.

Hundreds of thousands Taiwanese against President Chen Shuibian. Government of Taiwan did not collapse.


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## BoQ77

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China is #1 nation in world what else can you ask for you live in best country in world already , try going to Detroit and look for job then you will see how difficult things are
> 
> China - Best Economy
> China - Best in Manufacturing
> China - Best in Trade
> China - Best in Defence products
> China - Every one wears Soccer Shirts Made in China !!!



You are putting what they dislike and ask them to spend.
Btw, I doubt all the thing you list. It's not totally true.


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## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> I think this is a good opportunity for PRC to learn shock absorbing. The central government should trivialized the protest. Let those students make noise for a few weeks and let it be a "new normal". Let people get use to it.
> 
> India can survive thousands of protest each year, and she has becoming very shock absorbent. Not even civil war, famine or protest can take down state of India. Similarly PRC should learn likewise.



Use criminal gang with knives to anti-protest. Hahaha. Clever move by Chinese govt.
So how you could anti-terrorists with knives ?


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## Keel

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> The protestors need to go home , and next day wake up and go do work make money stop wasting time , China is #1 nation in world what else can you ask for you live in best country in world already , try going to Detroit and look for job then you will see how difficult things are
> 
> China - Best Economy
> China - Best in Manufacturing
> China - Best in Trade
> China - Best in Defence products
> 
> Hong Kong folks need to understand if they want better lives they will have to work harder for it
> 
> Right now 2014, October something date , 98% of stuff sold in USA is made in China !!!
> 
> Only thing not made in China is American babies and few cars from Ford Company rest is all China



the students are having tunnel visions having been soaked in western fads hollywood culture
which they acquire in their generations or pass-on from their parents who live in colonial days
they are frogs in wells and severely lacking world vision and analytical power
they are naive to think that democracy is the panacea for all social ills
under the delusion that in democracy there is "freedom" "fairness" " justice" for all
Many local media are just call centers of the uk, usa et al where the staff include university teachers, talk show hosts, columists
We are the no 1 enemy of the usa
Russia is at about the same hostiliy rank as we are on the usa list
Our south asian neighbour state India, despite their mess in governance and immense deep rooted social sickness, will not be posing as a threat at all to the hegemony!

USA wants to bring us down as much as they want to bring down Russia, Syria Iran ..
All the chaos that are pure absurdity are in effect a well planned well organised scheme which aim to topple the HK government in the name of 'democracy'

It's a replica of "Arab Spring" or "Ukrainian civil war" in the making.

Neither HK nor China deserves this treatment

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## Lux de Veritas

BoQ77 said:


> Use criminal gang with knives to anti-protest. Hahaha. Clever move by Chinese govt.
> So how you could anti-terrorists with knives ?



The elites of HK are criminals and corrupt tycoons. PRC need to go back to Mao-ism, to serve the people. The early Mao-ism 为人民服务 is what PRC themselves lost.

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## Lux de Veritas

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> The protestors need to go home , and next day wake up and go do work make money stop wasting time , China is #1 nation in world what else can you ask for you live in best country in world already , try going to Detroit and look for job then you will see how difficult things are
> 
> China - Best Economy
> China - Best in Manufacturing
> China - Best in Trade
> China - Best in Defence products
> 
> Hong Kong folks need to understand if they want better lives they will have to work harder for it
> 
> Right now 2014, October something date , 98% of stuff sold in USA is made in China !!!





Keel said:


> the students are having tunnel visions having soaked in western fads hollywood culture
> they are frogs in wells and severely lacking world vision and analytical power
> they are naive to think that democracy is the panacea for all social ills
> under the delusion that in democracy there is "freedom" "fairness" " justice" for all
> Many local media are just call centers of the uk, usa et al where the staff include university teachers, talk show hosts, columists
> We are the no 1 enemy of the usa
> Russia is at about the same hostiliy rank as we are on the usa list
> Our south asian neighbour state, despite their mess in governance and immense social sickness, will not be posting as a threat at all to the hegemony!



The PRC elites as well as PRC commenters today, are fully aware of their choice, that is given a choice of democracy an national interest, the later carries much priority. PRC people also want democracy but if democracy is being perceived to weaken China state, then PRC people are willing to live under tyranny, sacrificing themselves for a strong nation.

民主和强国， 选择是强国


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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> However, protesters could be heard yelling, "there are triads here," a reference to criminal gangs in the city known for controlling smuggling, prostitution and illegal gambling rings.




Just like the Japanese Yakuza.

Somebody has to control all the underground business, after all. These are criminals, but, at least, contained.



Lux de Veritas said:


> I think this is a good opportunity for PRC to learn shock absorbing. The central government should trivialized the protest. Let those students make noise for a few weeks and let it be a "new normal". Let people get use to it.
> 
> India can survive thousands of protest each year, and she has becoming very shock absorbent. Not even civil war, famine or protest can take down state of India. Similarly PRC should learn likewise.
> 
> Hundreds of thousands Taiwanese against President Chen Shuibian. Government of Taiwan did not collapse.
> 
> View attachment 129468



You are right.

And do not worry. Beijing is managing the whole show just fine -- Just as the US killed the OWS without meeting a single demand from the protesters, the protests and thousands of people coming together will not be special anymore.

Russia managed it quite remarkably, as well. Guess who everybody else is learning from? LOL.

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## BoQ77

06:27 GMT - Triad gangs - This is not the first time triad gangs have been accused of involvement.

Last week there were accusations from demonstrators and lawmakers that triad gangs were used in violent attacks on pro-democracy protesters by aggressive counter demonstrators in two busy shopping districts.

*The police and the government were forced to deny that they had worked with criminals.*

06:00 GMT - Police cordon - Pro-democracy demonstrators are standing firm as dozens of men wearing surgical masks descend on Admiralty.

Police struggle to contain the chaos as the masked men rush barricades and protesters try to guard the barriers and push the men back.

Two of the men are tackled to the ground by police, who have also formed a cordon around the masked group as protesters shout: "*Weapons! Weapons!" and "Arrest the triads".*

05:59 GMT - Angry officer - Police seem to have restored some measure of order, but one angry woman police officer in plain clothes was seen having a heated argument with a pro-democracy protestor.

05:50 GMT - Pro-government groups - Pro-government protesters are marching towards Admiralty, as police escort the group of several hundred. They shout "Open the road!" as they punch their fists into the air.

 

View gallery 


Police move in to cordon off a pro-democracy protest to allow traffic to flow on a main road in Hong …
Our reporters on the ground *are seeing hordes of masked men, allegedly pro-government protesters, attempting to remove barricades in Central's Charter Garden. Police are seen tackling at least two masked men to the ground as many more walk towards Admiralty.*

Occupy protesters have formed a line of defence in Admiralty as a horde of taxis advanced in the area, sounding their horns in front of barricades.

05:49 GMT - *Masked men - Demonstrators are clashing with dozens of masked men at main protest site* at Admiralty

04:36 GMT - "Strangle us" - "I've been sleeping here for ten days, the police can't scare me," protestor Ezra Leung tells AFP in Admiralty.

"They'll move in a little more each day to try to strangle us, but I'll protect this place."



> Protester Alex Kwok said he received a scratch on his arm after he was attacked by several men whom he accused of being members of triads, or organized crime gangs.
> 
> The tension later eased as the most of the crowd dispersed.
> 
> "Before the police came, young men wearing masks and dark clothing came to pick fights with people and we heard that some of them had weapons," said Kevin Ng, a college student who was at the scene saw the scuffles. "I don't know who the young men wearing masks were. We suspect they're triad members but it's hard to say. What other kind of group would organize themselves to come attack us?"


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## Jaat Rock

Using word "Everyone" is not good 
You can say Why Chinese and their $#%&@*^ Pakistan and Bangladesh hate Hong Kong protester


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## BoQ77

Updated Oct. 13, 2014 3:26 a.m. ET




Pro-democracy protesters, left, scuffle with anti-Occupy Central protesters, right, in Admiralty, Hong Kong. Reuters

HONG KONG—Scuffles broke out at the main Hong Kong protest site Monday afternoon as hundreds of antiprotest activists confronted pro-democracy demonstrators in an attempt to break through barricades that continue to block downtown areas.

The confrontations came at the start of the third week of the standoff and just hours after police started removing some barriers that they said were unmanned.

Meanwhile, Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying, who is in Guangzhou, China, for prescheduled meetings, didn’t comment on questions whether the city had set a deadline to clear the protest sites.

“The Hong Kong government and the police will continue to exercise a high level of tolerance,” he told reporters. “Still, this situation can’t last for long,” he said as he also vowed that he wouldn’t heed protesters’ demand that he resign.

“I won’t resign, I don’t need to resign,” Mr. Leung said.

In the afternoon on a key road leading to the city’s banking district, witnesses said a large truck arrived to clear barricades.

Enlarge Image




A crane removes barricades from the main protest site in Admiralty, Hong Kong, Oct. 13, 2014. Reuters

Enlarge Image




Police try to stop a masked anti-Occupy Central protester as he attempts to remove road blocks set up by pro-democracy protesters in Central, Hong Kong, Oct.13, 2014. Reuters

“Those guys from the truck cut and tore down tents on the protest site and put them on the truck,” said Eric Chiu, an onlooker who said he wasn’t involved in the protests.

A large purple-colored metal container on the rear of the truck appeared to contain barricade-related items collected from roads.

Uniformed and plainclothes police asked protesters to clear the area. Officers surrounded the truck and linked arms in an effort to block well over a hundred democracy protesters from getting closer. The move sparked anger from people in the crowd, who accused the police of aiding the antiprotest activists





















 *Ed Flanagan* ‏@*edmundflanagan*  32m32 minutes ago
New barricade taking shape. Dozen students bringing parts from all over admiralty. Filling with water to add weight.



*

*


* Ed Flanagan ‏@edmundflanagan  24m24 minutes ago
New admiralty barrier outside pacific place two meters from full blockage.








 Ed Flanagan ‏@edmundflanagan  36m36 minutes ago
Queensway rd is now blocked to all traffic. Students and trucks blow roadway as new barricade is built
 
*


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## Keel

Lux de Veritas said:


> The PRC elites as well as PRC commenters today, are fully aware of their choice, that is given a choice of democracy an national interest, the later carries much priority. PRC people also want democracy but if democracy is being perceived to weaken China state, then PRC people are willing to live under tyranny, sacrificing themselves for a strong nation.
> 
> 民主和强国， 选择是强国



Nonsense!
You dont see how strong India, Argentina, the Philippines, Peru, Chile,Mexico,Romania, Greece, Portugal, Ukraine ... and plenty more are under "democracy"
Democray is the ideal backdoor for your enemy to infiltrate into your system and break you down, tear your country apart

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## Lux de Veritas

Keel said:


> Nonsense!
> You dont see how strong india, argentina, the philippines, peru, chile,mexico, poland. ukraine are under "democracy"
> Democray is the ideal backdoor for your enemy to infiltrate into your system and break you down, tear your country apart



As I have said, given a choice of democracy and strong China, most PRC will choose strong China. But at the same time, PRC think democracy is good and that is why PRC has a elite flight problem and all elites send their scion to western univeristy.

If democracy is so shitt, why even Xi Jinping relative migrate?


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## Keel

Lux de Veritas said:


> As I have said, given a choice of democracy and strong China, most PRC will choose strong China. But at the same time, PRC think democracy is good and that is why PRC has a elite flight problem and all elites send their scion to western univeristy.
> 
> If democracy is so shitt, why even Xi Jinping relative migrate?



Democracy or most likely a hybrid system of socialists and democracy will be implemented in China when we reach the strength that the usa will pay a suicidal cost of trying to act funny in front of us
Get it?

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## BoQ77

*Ed Flanagan* ‏@*edmundflanagan*  47m47 minutes ago
Students in admiralty are reinforcing barriers with heavier equipment: Chain link, metal structures, plastic barriers





Previous
Next
 *Ed Flanagan* ‏@*edmundflanagan*  57m57 minutes ago
Students adapting to anti-protester tactics, now covering barricades with carpet to cover quick ties from box cutters


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## Keel

Lux de Veritas said:


> I think this is a good opportunity for PRC to learn shock absorbing. The central government should trivialized the protest. Let those students make noise for a few weeks and let it be a "new normal". Let people get use to it.
> 
> India can survive thousands of protest each year, and she has becoming very shock absorbent. Not even civil war, famine or protest can take down state of India. Similarly PRC should learn likewise.
> 
> Hundreds of thousands Taiwanese against President Chen Shuibian. Government of Taiwan did not collapse.
> 
> View attachment 129468



Chen was gone and serving his time now but regardless it is their boss usa who does not want Taiwan to collapse! the boss wants the weaponry trade with Taiwan to continue and prosper!
Get it?

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## BoQ77

i SUPPORT yellow ribbon.
Blue ribbon are criminals with weapons.

Meanwhile, a block away from Mongkok protest, a display celebrating 103rd anniversary of Taiwan national day.






Previous


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## Lux de Veritas

Keel said:


> Chen was gone and serving his time now but regardless it is their boss usa who does not want Taiwan to collapse! the boss wants the weaponry trade with Taiwan to continue and prosper!
> Get it?



If China can collapse due to a protest in a red dot HK, she can only have herself to be blame, for lack of resiliency.

India see thousands of protest each year, her government stand.


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## Beidou2020

The Yellow ribbons are terrorists.

They are terrorising 99% of the Hong Kong people.

They have gone beyond just being 'protestors'.

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## Kolaps

Lux de Veritas said:


> There are multi dimension factor in HK protest. These are
> 1) Western fomenting protest
> 2) HK people rise up against elite
> 3) HK people want democracy
> 
> PRC commenters would rather prefer framed it under western vs China. HK people indeed are not align to PRC values. However, diversity is exactly the strong point of HK. If PRC get rid of all opposing forces in HK, HK will no longer be unique and will be yet another PRC city.
> 
> In fact, elements of chaos are inherent in all democratic system. Only N Korea-ism is completely sanitized. The existence of chaos enable democratic countries to be resilient against shock.
> 
> PRC looks strong but she is inherently fragile. As we can see, a normal harmless protest common in all western states threaten to diminish the prestige and offer precedence against central government.
> 
> India can survive hundreds of thousands of violent protest. State of India will still be there even she screw up big time, fighting civil war, fight terrorist, losing wars, inactions against famine, dieseases and malnutrient...etc Any of these happening in PRC can bring the whole country down.
> 
> The structural instability of PRC against shock is what PRC needs to improve on for long term sustainability.



PRC have that mechanism.

But outside mainland, they unable to fight against democracy propaganda.

Even in Taiwan, people are not so convincing about PRC propaganda, and forget about HK young people.


Most Chinese outside mainland, look China as their ancestor land and Chinese civilization, not that funny communism.

But PRC refuse to admit it.

Too arrogant!

HK protest is basically PRC own karma!

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## Lux de Veritas

Beidou2020 said:


> The Yellow ribbons are terrorists.
> 
> They are terrorising 99% of the Hong Kong people.
> 
> They have gone beyond just being 'protestors'.



Mao and Zhou are students leaders as well. Zhou Enlai even murdered innocent women and children.

http://www.republicanchina.org/GuShunzhang-murder-v0.pdf

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## BoQ77

Lux de Veritas said:


> Mao and Zhou are students leaders as well. Zhou Enlai even murdered innocent women and children.
> 
> http://www.republicanchina.org/GuShunzhang-murder-v0.pdf



It's not surprise to see the govt use criminal gang to threaten farmers for their land, workers and minorities.

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## BoQ77

*Hong Kong authorities accused of hiring thugs after clashes*
* AFP | Updated: October 13, 2014 
(First published on: October 13, 2014 19:38 MYT) *






Pro-democracy demonstrators shout slogans at anti-occupy protesters (not in picture) in the Admiralty district of Hong Kong on October 13, 2014. - AFP PHOTO / Pedro Ugarte
*
HONG KONG*: Chaos erupted in central Hong Kong Monday as dozens of masked men rushed barricades at the city's main pro-democracy site, sparking renewed *accusations that authorities are using hired thugs to disperse demonstrators*.

Groups of men, many wearing surgical masks, descended on the front lines of the rally at Admiralty near Hong Kong's central business district, triggering clashes with protesters, just hours after police had moved in to take down some barriers.

Demonstrators, who have come under attack from organised crime gangs known as triads at another flashpoint demonstration site in Mongkok, shouted: "Weapons! Weapons!" and "Arrest the triads" as police struggled to impose order.

Pro-democracy lawmakers rounded on the authorities over the clashes.

"This* is one of the tactics used by the communists in mainland China *from time to time. They use triads or pro-government mobs to try to attack you so the government will not have to assume responsibility," Democratic Party lawmaker Albert Ho told AFP.

"It seems that *the police have duly removed some of the barricades to make way for the suspected triads to get through to the peaceful protesters*," Civic Party lawmaker Claudia Mo told AFP.

One lawmaker on the scene of the clashes in Admiralty voiced concern over how the situation had "degenerated".

"F*rom what I can see the police were helping the anti-Occupy actions more than the peaceful protesters*," said the Civic Party's Kenneth Chan.

Taxi drivers had also converged on the site with their cars, demanding the barricades be removed and other anti-Occupy groups chanted "Occupy is illegal".

Anti-Occupy protesters mainly dissipated as the afternoon wore on, while pro-democracy demonstrators rebuilt their barricades using everything from bamboo poles to sticky tape.

But as police announced they would soon move to clear more "obstacles" at both the Admiralty site and a secondary site in the shopping hub of Causeway Bay.

"We will not eliminate the possibility of using minimal force or arrest actions," police senior superintendent Hui Chun-tak told reporters.

He said that three men had been arrested, one for assault and two for carrying offensive weapons.

*Triad allegations *

The demonstrators are calling for Beijing to grant full democracy to the former British colony and have brought parts of Hong Kong to a standstill over the last fortnight, prompting clashes with elements who oppose the blockades and widespread disruption.

Despite repeated orders to disperse, the rallies have taken on an air of permanence, with tents, portable showers and lecture venues.

It was the second time since the mass protests began that authorities had been accused of cooperating with criminal gangs.

In previous clashes at the secondary site of Mongkok 10 days ago, *police said eight of the 19 arrested had triad backgrounds*.

Furious pro-democracy protesters also accused the authorities of using thugs Monday.

"*The government wants Hong Kong people to fight each other, that's how they want to win,*" protester Angela Li said.

"All the people using violence and causing trouble are paid thugs."

Police said that the clashes were due to "people unlawfully blocking the roads with obstacles".

Earlier Hong Kong's embattled leader Leung Chun-ying had told reporters in the Chinese city of Guangzhou that he wanted the protests to end.

"Under the appropriate situation we hope to allow society to return to normal as quickly as possible," he said on the sidelines of a trade meeting.

*Police 'do what they want' *

Police took down some peripheral barricades in a dawn operation allowing traffic to pass around the Admiralty site for the first time in two weeks as well as removing several barriers around the Mongkok site.

The overall atmosphere had been calm, but some protesters voiced anger at what they saw as a police swoop.

"The police refuse to communicate with us, they just do what they want," added Wong King-wa, 25.

On Sunday, Chief Executive Leung had said the protesters had "almost zero chance" of changing Beijing's stance and securing free elections.

China announced in August that while Hong Kongers will be able to vote for Leung's successor in 2017, only two or three vetted candidates will be allowed to stand -- an arrangement the protesters dismiss as "fake democracy".

Around the Web
 

Students and pro-democracy campaigners have taken to the streets -- sometimes in their tens of thousands -- since last month to call for Beijing to change its position and to demand Leung's resignation.

Talks between student leaders and city officials collapsed last week, deepening the crisis in the semi-autonomous city.

*Chinese police detained two Beijing activists who took part in a Hong Kong pro-democracy march,* a friend said Monday.

China has in recent weeks held around 40 people on the mainland who had expressed support for the protests in Hong Kong, according to rights groups. 

Read more at: Hong Kong authorities accused of hiring thugs after clashes | Astro Awani


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## Keel

Lux de Veritas said:


> If China can collapse due to a protest in a red dot HK, she can only have herself to be blame, for lack of resiliency.
> 
> India see thousands of protest each year, her government stand.



HK will not collapse because of this. Neither will China!

Do you see any indian protest receive this magnitude of media coverage?
No one cares about India, pathetic!



Lux de Veritas said:


> Mao and Zhou are students leaders as well. Zhou Enlai even murdered innocent women and children.
> http://www.republicanchina.org/GuShunzhang-murder-v0.pdf



That was China in a tumultuous period and the accusation on late Premier Zhou is unproven

HK enjoys all freedom except universal suffrage for one man one vote for the CE
It has press freedom, speech freedom, freedom to travel, freedom of everything, a clean and efficient government, good legal and education system, first class infrastructure..pretty measuring up to any developed countries
This "movement" is uncalled for.
If you dont see the reason behind this ridiculous and rat-smelt protest you are confirming you are a fool

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## Keel

Beidou2020 said:


> The Yellow ribbons are terrorists.
> 
> They are terrorising 99% of the Hong Kong people.
> 
> They have gone beyond just being 'protestors'.



Prescisly.
A small gathering of underachived students, religious fanatics, democratic extremists, triads, revellers, street activists, back alley revolutionalists, spies have kept 7 million people under hostage for over 2 weeks.
This is just democratic terrorism at its best.

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## Keel

Kolaps said:


> PRC have that mechanism.
> 
> But outside mainland, they unable to fight against democracy propaganda.
> 
> Even in Taiwan, people are not so convincing about PRC propaganda, and forget about HK young people.
> 
> Most Chinese outside mainland, look China as their ancestor land and Chinese civilization, not that funny communism.
> 
> But PRC refuse to admit it.
> 
> Too arrogant!
> 
> HK protest is basically PRC own karma!



Taiwan is a democracy according to usa
usa is your boss
These ppl still gathered to protest like they are in hell 



















Taiwan

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## Fukuoka

4 october



Tension rise up as pro-democracy protesters clash with masked men who have appeared in the avenue occupied for 15 days near the government siege




3 persons have been arrested for violence and weapons possession. After Chinese Human rights, 40 persons have been arrested in continetal China for their support for the recent pro-democracy movement














Policemen dismantling the barrages at Admiralty and Mongkok




Militias and policement have taken by surprize the protesters



Restoring traffic to let the governement workers going to their offices in the Admiralty district



Reinforcing their barrages at Queensway district, after the attack of masked men accused of belonging to the Triad





Rebuilding the barrages


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## Keel

*Angry Crowd Tries to Storm Hong Kong's Pro-Democracy Protest Zone*
*Angry Crowd Attacks Occupy Barricades in Hong Kong*
NBC NEWS 





16 hours ago

HONG KONG — An angry crowd of people opposed to pro-democracy protests that have paralyzed parts of Hong Kong for more than two weeks tried Monday to charge barricades used by the demonstrators, clashing with police as they attempted to storm the protest zone.

Taxi drivers joined in, some driving their cabs up to the barricades and leaning on their horns to express their anger about the traffic disruptions which have seriously affected their business. The tension later eased as the most of the crowd dispersed. "Before the police came, young men wearing masks and dark clothing came to pick fights with people and we heard that some of them had weapons," said Kevin Ng, a college student who was at the scene saw the scuffles. Demonstrators have flooded the city's streets since Sept. 28 in a civil disobedience movement opposing restrictions on the territory's inaugural 2017 election for its top leader. They want authorities to drop a plan to use a pro-Beijing committee to screen candidates in the election. They also want Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying, the city's Beijing-backed leader, to resign.

*IN-DEPTH*

*Hong Kong's 'Silent Majority' Demand End to Protests*
*Hong Kong Leader: 'Zero Chance' Beijing Will Give In*
*GALLERY: Protesters Sleep in Hong Kong's Nooks and Crannies*
*SOCIAL*

%3Cblockquote%20class=%22twitter-tweet%22%20lang=%22en%22%3E%3Cp%3EQueensway%20Road%20right%20now%20is%20a%20beehive%20of%20activity%20as%20students%20rush%20to%20build%20and%20reinforce%20barriers.%20%3Ca%20href=%22http://t.co/b6nR5yUVV7%22%3Epic.twitter.com/b6nR5yUVV7%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E-Ed%20Flanagan%20(@edmundflanagan)%20%3Ca%20href=%22https://twitter.com/edmundflanagan/status/521577719767638016%22%3EOctober%2013,%202014%3C/a%3E%3C/blockquote%3E%20%3Cscript%20async%20src=%22//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js%22%20charset=%22utf-8%22%3E%3C/script%3E


— Ed Flanagan (@edmundflanagan) October 13, 2014

Spoke too soon on quiet admiralty streets. About a dozen taxi drivers have marched back to demand clearing of streetspic.twitter.com/pSIYLnzfRu

-Ed Flanagan (@edmundflanagan) October 13, 2014


*- The Associated Press*
First published October 13th 2014, 11:05 am​


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## Fukuoka

Police react as an anti-Occupy protester is held by the police during a confrontation in Hong Kong October 13, 2014.




A policeman (front R) removes an anti-Occupy Central protester from the main protest site in Admiralty in Hong Kong, October 13, 2014. 





A office worker (2nd L) rushes to join pro-democracy protesters as they attempt to reinforce their barricades, as anti-Occupy Central protesters try to remove the road blocks, in the Central financial district in Hong Kong October 13, 2014.



An anti-Occupy Central protester (L) holds pliers as he cuts cable ties at barricades setup as road blocks by protesters at Central in Hong Kong October 13, 2014.



Police try to stop a masked anti-Occupy Central protester as he attempts to remove road blocks set up by pro-democracy protesters in the Central financial district in Hong Kong October 13, 2014.



Anti-Occupy Central protesters drag a metal fence over a pro-democracy protester at the main protest site in Admiralty in Hong Kong October 13, 2014.



Police remove barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters at the main protest site in Admiralty in Hong Kong October 13, 2014.











Pro-democracy protesters stand on a road at the main protest site in Admiralty in Hong Kong October 13, 2014.


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## Ragnar

All these useless student protestors should be sent for 2 years compulsory military training for inconveniencing the general public. When they sweat in the hot sun, they will fondly remember good old days.

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## Keel

14 hours ago








15 hours ago








16 hours ago







*Hong Kong Police Start Removing *
*Barricades From Streets*
Kristina Fernandez |Oct 13, 2014 06:56 AM EDT
Tweet



(Photo : Reuters/Tyrone Siu) Protesters of the Occupy Central movement sleep in front of metal barricades blocking a main street leading to Hong Kong's financial Central district on October 7, 2014.

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## vietnamese_sausage

BoQ77 said:


> 06:27 GMT - Triad gangs - This is not the first time triad gangs have been accused of involvement.
> 
> Last week there were accusations from demonstrators and lawmakers that triad gangs were used in violent attacks on pro-democracy protesters by aggressive counter demonstrators in two busy shopping districts.
> 
> *The police and the government were forced to deny that they had worked with criminals.*
> 
> 06:00 GMT - Police cordon - Pro-democracy demonstrators are standing firm as dozens of men wearing surgical masks descend on Admiralty.
> 
> Police struggle to contain the chaos as the masked men rush barricades and protesters try to guard the barriers and push the men back.
> 
> Two of the men are tackled to the ground by police, who have also formed a cordon around the masked group as protesters shout: "*Weapons! Weapons!" and "Arrest the triads".*
> 
> 05:59 GMT - Angry officer - Police seem to have restored some measure of order, but one angry woman police officer in plain clothes was seen having a heated argument with a pro-democracy protestor.
> 
> 05:50 GMT - Pro-government groups - Pro-government protesters are marching towards Admiralty, as police escort the group of several hundred. They shout "Open the road!" as they punch their fists into the air.
> 
> 
> 
> View gallery
> View attachment 129496
> 
> Police move in to cordon off a pro-democracy protest to allow traffic to flow on a main road in Hong …
> Our reporters on the ground *are seeing hordes of masked men, allegedly pro-government protesters, attempting to remove barricades in Central's Charter Garden. Police are seen tackling at least two masked men to the ground as many more walk towards Admiralty.*
> 
> Occupy protesters have formed a line of defence in Admiralty as a horde of taxis advanced in the area, sounding their horns in front of barricades.
> 
> 05:49 GMT - *Masked men - Demonstrators are clashing with dozens of masked men at main protest site* at Admiralty
> 
> 04:36 GMT - "Strangle us" - "I've been sleeping here for ten days, the police can't scare me," protestor Ezra Leung tells AFP in Admiralty.
> 
> "They'll move in a little more each day to try to strangle us, but I'll protect this place."


I heard triad businesses have suffered because of protests. Students are not fighters they will lose in fight but the spirit of great man Joshua Wong will help them prevail.


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## Keel



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## Keel



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## Fukuoka




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## vietnamese_sausage

ClassicMan said:


> Why do you assume USA is behind all this? What if Russia is behind this to make China believe that it is USA that is behind all this, and therefore, China can consistaintly purchase Russian's outdated weapons? Ever thought about this?
> 
> Part of democracy package includes an independent judiciary system with the principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty in it's legal system. This is a must have.


Bro, we don't have that in Vietnam now. Let's not be too tough on them.


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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong police dismantle barricades on 16th day of Occupy Central*

HONG KONG, Oct. 13 (Xinhua) -- Police started removing barricades set up by the Occupy protesters on both sides of Hong Kong's harbor Monday morning.

*The move to dismantle blockades on Queensway, Harcourt Road, Jackson Road, around the Arsenal Street police headquarters, and in Mong Kok, came as the student-led occupation of main roads in the heart of Hong Kong entered its third week.*

*The barricades were placed on lorries on the roadside ready to be taken away. Protesters in the area were not resisting the operation, but were monitoring the police action*.

A number of helmeted police were on standby, while officers used loud hailers to tell protesters that they were not clearing the site, but only trying to retrieve equipment that belongs to the force and the government.

*In Mong Kok, police successfully removed barricades at the junction of Argyle Street and Shanghai Street, enabling five lanes to reopen to traffic.*

The move came after protesters had allowed the junction of Argyle and Portland Street to reopen.

*But police attempts to remove barricades on Mong Kok Road failed after they were confronted by demonstrators there.*

The police have again called on protesters to clear major roads of obstacles and reduce the size of the occupation zones.

Chief Superintendent Steve Hui also urged protesters to clear Queensway in Admiralty, to allow tram services to run normally again. He warned occupy leaders and other citizens against using social media to encourage people to expand the protests.

Hui also criticized protesters in Mong Kok, after another rowdy night in which scuffles broke out between police and people manning barricades.

He described Mong Kok as a "high-risk area", where troublemakers may gather. A total of 47 people have been arrested at the protest there so far, he said.

The Chief Executive, CY Leung, has said the government doesn't want to clear protesters from the streets unless it has to.

In an interview with local media, Leung said he doesn't regard the protests as a revolution, but believes they are part of a mass movement that has spun out of control.

Leung also said the decision to use tear gas on protesters in Admiralty a fortnight ago was made by the police, although he was involved in the general handling of the situation.

He said the police were trying different methods to get protesters to leave the streets, and they don't want to have to resort to force. But if that day does come, the police will use the minimum force required and would try to reduce the repercussions as far as possible.

He added that he doesn't want to see young people get hurt and reiterated that he would not step down, saying that wouldn't help resolve the political impasse.

***

On the other end of the Pacific, in the meantime, although with less media coverage:

*Cornel West among protesters arrested in Ferguson*
Published time: October 13, 2014 20:13

Corruption, Crime, Police, Protest, Rally, Religion, USA

At least 18 people, including author Cornel West, were arrested in Ferguson, Missouri on Monday as activists continued to protest police brutality more than two months after a local officer fatally shot an unarmed teen.

West — a renowned academic and former Harvard professor — was among a group of protesters engaged in an organized act of civil disobedience Monday afternoon outside of the Ferguson Police Department. MSNBC reported that at least 18 individuals, including West and prominent faith leaders, were arrested from a group of roughly 130 that had assembled outside of the station.

NBC News reported from Ferguson that West and others had attempted to create a makeshift memorial outside of the police station on Monday for Michael Brown, a local teen shot two months ago this weekend by a Ferguson cop, but arrests began soon after when demonstrators reportedly breached caution time and advanced towards the station.







Protestors hold up their hands as the riot police move in during a protest at the Ferguson Police Department in Ferguson, Missouri, October 13, 2014. (Reuters/Jim Young)

Monday’s incident was the latest in a weekend of actions held during the last few days in the St. Louis suburb that activists are calling “Ferguson October.” Protests have also occurred in recent days in St. Louis, where a man was fatally shot by an off-duty officer last Wednesday.

On Sunday evening, West told an audience at St. Louis University that he was prepared to be arrested for demonstrating.

_“It’s a beautiful thing to see people on fire for justice, but I didn’t come here to give a speech,”_ he said at Sunday’s event. _“I came here to go to jail.”_






Protestors stand in front of the riot police during a protest at the Ferguson Police Department in Ferguson, Missouri, October 13, 2014. (Reuters/Jim Young)

According to MSNBC, Rev. Osagyefo Sekou — a prominent author and pastor — was arrested during Monday’s demonstration as well. Authorities detained Sekou last month as well after engaging in an act of civil disobedience with other faith leaders.

Matt Pearce, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times, wrote on Twitter that the police station demo was "_highly coordinated_" with "_organizers clearing paths, sending clergy in waves … willing to get arrested_."

Activists have been attempting to draw attention to the widespread concerns regarding the excessive use of force by police officers, particularly against young minorities, and the lack of charges brought against Darren Wilson, the Ferguson officer who shot Brown in August. A grand jury is currently considering whether or not Wilson should be charged in the shooting.

MSNBC reported that roughly a half-dozen protesters were arrested elsewhere in Ferguson on Monday after blocking a major intersection. According to CBS News, 17 arrests were made on Sunday.

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> Why do you assume USA is behind all this? What if Russia is behind this to make China believe that it is USA that is behind all this, and therefore, China can consistaintly purchase Russian's outdated weapons? Ever thought about this?
> 
> Part of democracy package includes an independent judiciary system with the principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty in it's legal system. This is a must have.



THere is a widespread discussions and links on the Chinese internet and media that the usa is behind all these
They have many prominent organizations which support overseas "democratic" movements

The following are some of the evidences, commentary and track records:

*US Now Admits it is Funding “Occupy Central” in Hong Kong*
Source: US Now Admits it is Funding “Occupy Central” in Hong Kong
https://defence.pk/threads/us-now-admits-it-is-funding-“occupy-central”-in-hong-kong.337460/#post-6256353

President Obama: U.S. Supports Democratic Movements in the Middle East and North Africa, Pushes for Middle East Peace | United States Institute of Peace

United States support of authoritarian regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Covert United States foreign regime change actions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

*United States war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


Hong Kong Protests: Why Imperialists Support ‘Democracy’ Movement
Hong Kong Protests: Why Imperialists Support ‘Democracy’ Movement | Global Research
By Sara Flounders
Global Research, October 08, 2014

_…. Although using the name, street tactics and appeal of the *Occupy Wall Street* movement, *Occupy Central* has not made one demand on the banks in Hong Kong. In contrast, Occupy Wall Street was a movement that focused the outrage of tens of thousands of youth on the criminal role of the Wall Street banks, particularly in extracting from the U.S. government a trillion-dollar bailout that saved the largest banks while leaving millions of homes of working people in foreclosure, along with millions unemployed. In Hong Kong the role of the banks is enshrined in law for the next 50 years. How can this be overlooked? Understanding the special status of the former British colony of Hong Kong within China is a key part of understanding who Occupy Central represents. ….._

Demonstrations in Hong Kong, China, raising demands on the procedures to be followed in city elections in 2017, have become an international issue and a source of political confusion.

The protests, called Occupy Central, have received enormous and very favorable U.S. media coverage. Every news report describes with great enthusiasm the occupation of central business parts of Hong Kong as “pro-democracy” protests. The demonstrations, which began on Sept. 22, gained momentum after Hong Kong police used tear gas to open roads and government buildings.

In evaluating an emerging movement it is important to look at what political forces are supporting the movement. What are the demands raised by the movement, who are they appealing to, and what is the social composition of those in motion?

The U.S. and British governments have issued statements of support for the demonstrations. Secretary of State John Kerry urged Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi to heed the demands of the protesters. Wang responded by calling for respect for China’s sovereignty. Britain, which stole Hong Kong from China in 1842 and held it as a colony for 155 years under a government appointed by London, is supporting the call for “democracy” in Hong Kong. Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg summoned the Chinese ambassador in order to convey the British government’s alarm.

At the present time these imperialists may not expect to overturn the central role of the Chinese Communist Party in governing China. But Occupy Central in Hong Kong is a battering ram, aimed at weakening the role of the state in the Chinese economy.

The imperialists hope to embolden the bourgeois elements and encourage the increasingly strong capitalist class within China to become more aggressive and demand the overturn of socialist norms established after the 1949 socialist revolution, including the leading role of the Communist Party in a strong sovereign state.

*Police repression: Mexico, Italy, Philippines*

In Mexico, tens of thousands of students have been protesting curriculum changes and new fees. More than 50,000 demonstrated in Mexico City for the third time. In western Mexico, 57 students from a teaching college went missing after gunslingers fired on a demonstration they were attending, killing three students and wounding three others. A Guerrero official says witnesses identified the shooters as local police officers. Mass graves have now been uncovered in an area terrorized by police and gangs.

On Oct. 2, in Naples, Italy, national police attacked demonstrators protesting against austerity and a meeting of the European Central Bank. Cops fired tear gas and water canons at thousands of protesters.

Thousands of courageous demonstrators in Manila opposed the signing of an agreement with the U.S. for an escalating rotation of U.S. troops, ships and planes into the Philippines during President Obama’s visit last April. They faced water cannons, tear gas and mass arrests.

Did any White House officials meet with Mexican officials to express concern for the killed or missing students? Did any British officials summon Italian officials to convey alarm at the tear gas and water cannons? Was there world media attention to the attacks on Philippine youth? Where was the media frenzy? Why is it so dramatically different regarding Occupy Central in Hong Kong?

The use of tear gas by Hong Kong police is denounced by the same officials who have been silent as militarized police in U.S. cities routinely use not only tear gas but tanks, armored personnel carriers, live ammunition, electric tasers, rubber bullets, stun guns, dogs and drones in routine police sweeps.

To hear U.S. officials denouncing restrictions on candidates in Hong Kong is especially offensive to anyone familiar with the election procedures in the U.S. today. Millions of dollars are required to run a campaign here. Candidates go through multiple layers of vetting by corporate powers and by the two pro-imperialist political party apparatuses. Restrictive ballot measures are in place in every state and city election.

*‘Color revolutions’*

Officials and publications in China characterize the actions of Occupy Central as a U.S.-funded “color revolution” and compare it to the upheavals that swept Ukraine and former Soviet republics.

Several commentaries have described in some detail the extensive role of the U.S. National Endowment for Democracy and the Democratic National Institute, along with corporate foundations’ funding of leaders and the protest movement in Hong Kong.

Thousands of nongovernmental organizations with large staffs are based in Hong Kong. Their stated goal is to build democracy. Their real purpose is to undermine the central role of the Chinese Communist Party in the organization of Chinese society. Hong Kong, unlike the rest of China, has allowed these U.S.-funded NGOs and political associations almost unlimited access for decades.

*Hong Kong’s special status*

Hong Kong’s importance is not due to its size. Its population of 7.5 million people is half of 1 percent of the population of China. But Hong Kong is a leading center of finance capital. According to the 2011 World Economic Forum, Hong Kong had already overtaken London, New York and Singapore in financial access, business environment, banking and financial services, institutional environment, nonbanking financial services and financial markets.

Hong Kong acts as the financial gateway to China. It has a guaranteed, banking-friendly, special administrative status. It is known for its financial services with insurance, law, accounting and many hundreds of well-established professional service firms. Capitalists based in Hong Kong are today the largest foreign investors in China.

The city of Hong Kong also has the greatest extremes of wealth and poverty in the world. The city is famous for glittering skyscrapers and luxury malls and is home to some of the world’s richest people. But half live in overcrowded and crumbling public housing. One-fifth live below the poverty line.

More than 170,000 “working poor” live in cage-like, subdivided flats. The stacked wire “dog crates” are 6 feet long by 3 feet high and wide, with 30 crates to a room. The city has no minimum wage.

*Occupy?*

Although using the name, street tactics and appeal of the Occupy Wall Street movement, Occupy Central has not made one demand on the banks in Hong Kong.

In contrast, Occupy Wall Street was a movement that focused the outrage of tens of thousands of youth on the criminal role of the Wall Street banks, particularly in extracting from the U.S. government a trillion-dollar bailout that saved the largest banks while leaving millions of homes of working people in foreclosure, along with millions unemployed.

In Hong Kong the role of the banks is enshrined in law for the next 50 years. How can this be overlooked? Understanding the special status of the former British colony of Hong Kong within China is a key part of understanding who Occupy Central represents.

*Colonial status*

Hong Kong, as a British colony from 1842 to 1997, had no elections nor any form of democracy. For 155 years its governors were appointed by Britain.

Hong Kong came into existence as a colony based on a series of unequal treaties imposed by British imperialism. Rather than pay in silver, Britain imposed the sale of opium into China in exchange for tea, spices, silk and porcelain, valuable trade items coveted in the West. The growing sale of opium was resisted by the Qing Dynasty, which confiscated more than 2 million pounds of opium in 1838.

British armored and steam-powered gunboats, in the name of “free trade,” opened fire on Chinese cities on the Pearl and Yangtze rivers, where bamboo, wood and thatch were common building materials. Cities and warehouses burst into flames. British forces seized the island of Hong Kong with its many natural harbors at the mouth of the vital Pearl River as a naval base and military staging point for future wars in China.

The 1842 Treaty of Nanking demanded China pay heavy indemnities and gave Britain and other foreign nationals a privileged position of extraterritoriality in China, along with ceding open treaty ports and turning over the Island of Hong Kong. Racist segregation of Chinese people was the practice in Hong Kong and all the “foreign concessions.”

In the Second Opium War 15 years later, British, French, U.S., Japanese and imperial Russian merchants made further demands, involving gunboats and thousands of troops. China was forced under duress to lease additional territory and open more cities. The demands continued. A 99-year lease for the islands surrounding Hong Kong, called the “new Territories,” was signed in 1898. China lapsed into a period of devastating famines, civil wars and contending warlords, with underdevelopment and great poverty for the great majority.

*Revolution of 1949*

The Chinese Revolution that culminated in 1949, under the revolutionary leadership of Mao Tse-tung and the Chinese Communist Party, ended the unequal treaties and the racist treatment of Chinese people in their own country and began the reorganization of the Chinese economy on a socialist basis.

But Hong Kong remained in British imperialist hands; Macau continued in the hands of old Portuguese colonialists; and on the island of Taiwan the defeated, reactionary Kuomintang regime led by dictator Chiang Kai-shek survived as a U.S. protectorate. The imperialist countries in the West and Japan denied technological and industrial development to the impoverished and underdeveloped People’s China.

In the 1980s socialist China began opening to Western capitalist investment on a steadily expanding basis. The capitalist market in China and the influence of capitalist property relations have seriously eroded socialist ownership. But the centrality of the Communist Party in politics and the economy has not been broken.

Just as the imperialists 100 and 200 years ago sabotaged any restraint on their economic domination, today Wall Street continues scheming to regain unimpeded access to all of China’s markets.

*HKSAR: Special Administrative Region of China*

In 1997, the 99-year British lease was scheduled to end on the British colony of Hong Kong. In 1984, China signed an agreement with Britain on the future status of Hong Kong. It was called the Hong Kong Basic Law.

In order to avoid instability and closing of the foreign investment flowing through Hong Kong, the Chinese government, while insisting on the return of Hong Kong to Chinese sovereignty, agreed to guarantee capitalist relations there for 50 years under an agreement called “One Country, Two Systems,” an idea originally proposed by Communist Party General Secretary Deng Xiaoping.

Hong Kong became the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China. In the agreement with British imperialism, the HKSAR would retain the status of an international financial center with free flow of capital. The Hong Kong dollar remained freely convertible.

The status of property rights, contracts, ownership of enterprises, rights of inheritance and foreign investment was all guaranteed. The agreement stipulated that Hong Kong’s capitalist system itself and its “way of life” would remain unchanged until 2047. A network of private schools, universities and the large corporate media did not change hands. The Hong Kong Basic Law further stated that the socialist system and socialist policies would not be practiced in HKSAR.

Hong Kong bankers, financiers and industrialists were assured autonomy, except in foreign and defense affairs, where the People’s Republic of China would have full say. It is this minimal control that Occupy Central is now challenging with the demand that Chief Executive Cy Leung must resign.

An antiquated judiciary based on British Common Law upholds the laws that defend the harshest private property relations. Small claims courts, landlord courts, labor courts, juvenile courts, coroner’s courts and courts of appeals all enforce old capitalist laws, not the laws in place for the 99.5 percent living in the rest of China.

Hong Kong judges still wear British-style outfits, including wigs made of horsehair, with white gloves, girdles and scarlet robes added for official ceremonies.

The guarantee of unrestricted capitalism in Hong Kong for 50 years means that some of the starkest extremes of wealth and poverty exist side by side.

*U.S. funded NGOs*

Fearful of democratic change coming from the working class as soon as the British signed the agreement in 1984, the ruling class began to violate it, putting in place new political parties and organizations to operate after the return of the territory to China. After 145 years of appointed government, they pompously called for democratic change.

Three years before the 1997 handover of sovereignty, the British changed the constitution and set up district boards, urban and regional councils, and a legislative council. These top-down reforms were strongly opposed by the Chinese government as a violation of the agreement and a tactic to subvert its political system.

But more insidious than the official changes was the vast expansion of U.S. “soft power” in Hong Kong.

Today more than 30,000 NGOs are registered in Hong Kong. They cover every aspect of life. (Social Indicators of Hong Kong)

The U.S. funds NGOs for political subversion through the U.S. State Department’s U.S. Agency for International Development, which makes grants to the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), National Democratic Institute (NDI), National Republican Institute, Ford Foundation, Carter Center, Asia Foundation, Freedom House, Soros’s Open Society and Human Rights Watch, among others.

All these groups and many more fund projects that claim to be supporting and promoting human rights, democracy, a free press and electoral reform. This funding of social networks operates for the same purposes in Latin America and the Caribbean, throughout the Middle East and Africa, and in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics.

U.S. imperialism has not established democracy in any of its hundreds of interventions, wars, drone attacks, coups or global surveillance. But “promoting democracy” has become a cover for attacks on the sovereignty of countries all around the world.

Of course, religious groups and other states, especially those in the European Union, also fund political associations and social networks in Hong Kong and everywhere across the globe. A few of these groups may genuinely operate independently and provide aid to immigrant workers, help low-paid workers organize, or address housing and health needs of the most unrepresented in Hong Kong. But for the most part, the NGOs are a network of “civil society” organizations controlled by and for U.S. corporate power.

A growing number of articles in the Chinese press have connected the dots of the leaders of Occupy Central and the U.S.-funded NGOs.

According to China.org.cn, “Each and every ‘Occupy Central’ leader is either directly linked to the U.S. State Department, NED, and NDI, or involved in one of NDI’s many schemes.” (Oct. 6)

Occupy Central’s self-proclaimed leader, Benny Tai, is a law professor who has received NDI and NED grants and was on the board of the NDI-funded Center for Comparative and Public Law. He attended many NDI-funded conferences. This is also true for another prominent Occupy Central figure, Audrey Eu.

Also, according to China.org.cn, “Martin Lee, founding chairman of Hong Kong’s Democrat Party, is another prominent figure who has come out in support of Occupy Central. Just this year, Lee was in Washington meeting directly with Vice President Joseph Biden and Rep. Nancy Pelosi and even took part in an NED talk hosted specifically for him and his agenda of “democracy” in Hong Kong. Lee even has a NED page dedicated to him after he was awarded NED’s Democracy Award in 1997. With him in Washington was Anson Chan, another prominent figure currently supporting the ongoing unrest in Hong Kong’s streets.”

A number of publications in the West are picking up on these exposés, including Counterpunch in “Hong Kong and the Democracy Question”; Global Research in “U.S. Now Admits It Is Funding Occupy Central in Hong Kong”; and InfoWars.com in “Is the U.S. Secretly Egging on Hong Kong Protesters?”

Even a Hong Kong poll showed that most of those making $10,000 a year or less opposed the protests, while support was highest among people making $100,000 a year or more.

Wall Street is not satisfied with the deep inroads that capitalism has made into China and is increasingly fearful of Chinese competition in global markets. The U.S. pressure for political liberalization in China is to promote further economic opening and further privatization of state industries.

U.S. and British imperialism hope to use Hong Kong as they did 150 years ago as a stronghold for pushing deeper politically into China. Today, however, they are not facing a backward feudal dynasty.

As U.S. corporate dominance in production and finance slips, the Asia pivot of the Obama administration means that the U.S. ruling class and its military apparatus has made the decision to become more confrontational toward Russia and China.

Opponents of U.S. wars and organizations defending workers’ interests in the U.S. can play an important role by refusing to align with U.S. schemes aimed at overturning pro-socialist norms inside China and undermining Chinese sovereignty.

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## TaiShang

We must not forget how the "royal" Hong Kong police and the british troops dealt with protesters in the 1967 uprising.

That's quite a bit improvement since then under the Beijing's rule.


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## boke

看到一群跳梁小丑在香港大街上制造动乱，另一群小丑在论坛里给这些人打气助威，我就明白了，这些小丑之间都有个共性：那就是为中国的社会稳定和发展制造障碍！
你们必须明白一点，一小撮社会动乱分子是可能阻挡香港法治也更不可能束缚中国前进的脚步，想给中国添堵，不要说这些人没有能力，就算是你们这些瞎起哄的外国水军包括你们背后的黑势力加一起也没有任何胜算！中国每前进一步都有中国的自信，等着瞧吧！

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## BoQ77

New bamboo barricades on other side of Queensway in the daylight





After a couple revisions, the final bamboo barricade is complete. Protesters used some of that cement to reinforce. 

















Previous
Previous


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## TaiShang

*HK police vow minimum force to remove protest road barriers*






Police stand guard in front of barricades set up by "Occupy" protesters on the road in Monk Kok in Hong Kong on Monday. PARKER ZHENG/CHINA DAILY

Hong Kong police said on Monday they are ready to remove barricades and restore traffic to two main roads blockaded by protesters for more than two weeks.

Police Chief Superintendent Steve Hui Chun-tak said at a news conference that minimal force will be used to take down illegal obstacles in an aim to resume traffic and tram services.

Hui emphasized the impending operation was not to remove protesters but warned members of the public not to interfere with the police in the execution of their duties.

Meanwhile, Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying said authorities would avoid direct clashes with protesters as they work to dismantle unmanned road barricades on Hong Kong Island and the Mongkok neighborhood. Leung added that the police is one of the most outstanding and disciplined police force in the world.

In an early morning operation on Monday, police recovered public barriers, dismantled 27 roadblocks and cleared up seven minor roads to traffic.

Mobile cranes surrounded by hundreds of officers removed barriers at protest sites in Mongkok while protesters continued their illegal sit-in, which has entered its third week.

Protesters have since created new barricades made up of bamboo spikes using recycled pallets, bamboo poles and stolen litter bins after police removed metal barriers in place since the unrest broke out in late September.

Protesters also added cement to reinforce the new barriers in anticipation of the police operation.

Anti-occupation groups angry over the prolonged sit-ins said the protests were costing drivers' jobs and affecting the livelihood of countless others.

On Sunday, a thin blue line of officers attempted to separate dozens of occupation protesters from an angry mob of at least 1,000 while a mobile crane, allegedly utilized by an anti-occupation group, began clearing roadblocks and protester tents.

After initial clashes, police were able to keep the two sides separated as nearby office workers looked on.

Three men were arrested for common assault and possession of weapons in Sunday's fracas.

After the arrests, a convoy of taxis and cement trucks from anti-occupy groups drove up to the blockades, blasting their horns and calling for roads to be reopened. Police turned them away.

The government has offered to relocate protest zones to nearby parks but protest leaders have yet to take up the offer. It declined to reopen a forecourt at the government headquarters, where students sparked the unrest, as a site for protests after protest leaders offered to retreat from main roads in the city.

Asia Pacific Law Association President Phyllis Kwong said she will file an injunction barring protest leaders from occupied roads.

She added that the association is helping to plan lawsuits seeking to recover losses from transportation providers who say they have lost HK$2 billion ($258 million) due to road disruptions.

***

Good good. Just let them rot in the street and then leave the area on their own consent.

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## vietnamese_sausage

ClassicMan said:


> Information overload.....
> 
> US does give grants for those who studies in its country.
> 
> Democracy with the unique Chinese touch may be a good thing for China if it can be achieve without warfare.


I like to see democracy with the unique Vietnamese touch also may be a good thing for Vietnam if it can be achieve without warfare.


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## Rent

Even though both China and Vietnam are independent countries, its people are far from being free. Democracy have been discussed here, but Freedom and Human Rights is ultimately what people still strive for.

If China becomes a democracy country. Vietnam will automatically have hers without internal warfare and bloodsheds. Vietnam being next to a super power can't help but wear the same party hats as its big neighbor. This is evident through history. History of China, Vietnam and the whole world have one thing in common: People are always fighting for freedom. True freedom comes from true leaders. True leaders comes from knowledge. Knowledge is greatest power of the people. 

Seek this knowledge for yourself and what it means to be "Free". Find out the key elements of democracy and spread this knowledge.

A good government is one that continuously evolves to meet the people's needs. A good citizen should contributes to his/hers government in order to complete the cycle. Protests, petitions, and votes are peaceful ways to appeal to authorities with respect to a particular cause.

Changes are good. Changes without bloodshed is even better. But like @ClassicMan have said, "a gem can not be polished without friction."

Let's hope.

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## vietnamese_sausage

ClassicMan said:


> Good for you. Go and make your dream a reality.
> What are your plans? Care to share?


Get lost fake Vietnamese troll somewhere else.

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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong barricades taken down by police*
_




_

*Police are set to let traffic flow again at protest sites in a busy area of Hong Kong after clearing lanes at two of three sites in an orderly and violence-free operation.*

The force is preparing to return Kowloon's busiest intersection to the general public, Chief Superintendent Stephen Hui said, after police reopened tramlines and traffic lanes on Hong Kong island on Tuesday.

Following a pledge to reopen the major east-west traffic artery with minimal force, officers with chainsaws and sledge hammers made quick work of the ramparts protestors built on Monday evening.

An onlooker surnamed Kung, who identified himself as a taxi driver, praised the police action, saying, "The protesters should consider society's common benefit and take a step back for Hong Kong. During the occupation, traffic congestion took away 40 percent of my income. *I respect freedom, but I also need my freedom - to earn my living."*

Hui said officers will ensure reopened roads remain unobstructed and that police would not tolerate attempts to replace obstacles. Protesters taking part in an illegal sit-in for political reforms that go against the Basic Law remain around the Central Government Complex in Admiralty.

Hui appealed to protesters to allow lawmakers and government officials to enter the Legislative Council unmolested after a deal was reached to restart general meetings suspended due to the security threat posed by protesters blockading the complex.

Hui said police would monitor the situation in Mong Kok before taking action, declining to say when exactly police would move in to restore traffic flows.

The force has removed most of the barriers in the early morning hours when there are the fewest protesters.

*Police have classified illegal gatherings at the Mong Kok intersection as high risk for confrontations between residents upset at the blockades and protesters manning barricades. A number of sporadic scuffles have already erupted over the past weeks.*

Hui stressed that police operations would be *announced ahead of any action to give protestors a chance to clear out.*

The police action comes after weeks of mounting frustration by anti-occupation groups, including a group of irate transport workers who fanned out on Monday afternoon in a bid to take down the barriers and confront protestors. Twenty-three men aged 16 to 54 were arrested in relation to the Monday operation.

*A union representing Hong Kong tramway conductors also called on protesters, who have ignored numerous appeals from affected residents, to clear Causeway Bay after the sit-ins, now entering a third week, began to eat into wages.*

Conductors say suspension of service has forced hourly wage earners to lose roughly HK$3,000 over the past two weeks while others have had to take unpaid leave.

***

*Hong Kong police remove barricades for traddic order*

For weeks now, protestors of the ‪#‎OccupyCentral‬ movement in Hong Kong have blocked streets and at times brought the Asian economic mecca to a standstill.

At various points, protests have swelled into the thousands and diminished to only a few hundred before swelling again.

In the latest from the scene, some roads in Mongkok, Central and Wanchai have now been reopened. Police also cleared some barricades from the bustling shopping district of Causeway Bay. In the process, police called on the protesters to listen to them, and leave the roads open for traffic.

However, "Occupy Central" protesters refused to remove all the barricades, and added reinforcements by erecting bamboo scaffolding, and mixing concrete to pour over the foundations of their roadblocks.

‪#‎HongKong‬*’s Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying said earlier that the tolerance by the SAR gov't and the police towards the protestors has been rare seen even in some Western countries. *

He added the Occupy Central movement could not be allowed to last much longer.

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## vietnamese_sausage

This is like a game. A real drain on china's economy.


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## FairAndUnbiased

vietnamese_sausage said:


> This is like a game. A real drain on china's economy.



Only on Hong Kong's economy, not the rest of China's.

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## TaiShang

vietnamese_sausage said:


> This is like a game. A real drain on china's economy.



Nah, there is no such drain. What is it in the protests that really caused loss of economic growth? Maybe service business in certain areas, local taxi drivers, vendors etc. are adversely affected. But there has not been no looting, burning, stealing, damaging, or killing.

*Unlike Vietnam, which has to suffer the dire consequences of its uncivil barbaric mass protests. *

If Vietnam survives from the mass looting and burning, no worries, China will survive a peaceful protest.

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## Keel

Rent said:


> Even though both China and Vietnam are independent countries, its people are far from being free. Democracy have been discussed here, but Freedom and Human Rights is ultimately what people still strive for.
> 
> If China becomes a democracy country. Vietnam will automatically have hers without internal warfare and bloodsheds. Vietnam being next to a super power can't help but wear the same party hats as its big neighbor. This is evident through history. History of China, Vietnam and the whole world have one thing in common: People are always fighting for freedom. True freedom comes from true leaders. True leaders comes from knowledge. Knowledge is greatest power of the people.
> 
> Seek this knowledge for yourself and what it means to be "Free". Find out the key elements of democracy and spread this knowledge.
> 
> A good government is one that continuously evolves to meet the people's needs. A good citizen should contributes to his/hers government in order to complete the cycle. Protests, petitions, and votes are peaceful ways to appeal to authorities with respect to a particular cause.
> 
> Changes are good. Changes without bloodshed is even better. But like @ClassicMan have said, "a gem can not be polished without friction."
> 
> Let's hope.



That is a sermon knowing that you country has just gunned down a black folk in Missouri again in the wake of a series of violation of human rights
If imperialist america has learnt to acquire the knowledge of how to live and let live, then the world will be a better place
Some stones don want to be gems. They want to be as natural as themselves so no friction is required

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## vietnamese_sausage

TaiShang said:


> Nah, there is no such drain. What is it in the protests that really caused loss of economic growth? Maybe service business in certain areas, local taxi drivers, vendors etc. are adversely affected. But there has not been no looting, burning, stealing, damaging, or killing.
> 
> *Unlike Vietnam, which has to suffer the dire consequences of its uncivil barbaric mass protests. *
> 
> If Vietnam survives from the mass looting and burning, no worries, China will survive a peaceful protest.



peaceful protest. i agree generally speaking, yes very peaceful. but lets say this drag on for another two months of blocking traffic, disrupting businesses. you tell me this will not affect hk and china? 
some business owners say they lost 90% of customers due to peaceful protest.


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## Keel

vietnamese_sausage said:


> peaceful protest. i agree generally speaking, yes very peaceful. but lets say this drag on for another two months of blocking traffic, disrupting businesses. you tell me this will not affect hk and china?
> some business owners say they lost 90% of customers due to peaceful protest.



the civil unrest is only restricted to a very small part of HK.
Mainland is not affected at all
The HK police ihas already cleared some of the roads and I think more to come in the next few days

*Hong Kong police use sledgehammers, chainsaws to clear protest barriers, open road*
BY JAMES POMFRET AND DONNY KWOK

HONG KONG Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:01pm EDT

8 COMMENTS

Tweet



1 OF 12. Police remove a barricade left by pro-democracy protesters on a main road leading to the financial Central district in Hong Kong October 14, 2014.

CREDIT: REUTERS/BOBBY YIP





*Bringing down the barricades*
Hong Kong police remove the barricades erected by protesters. Slideshow 

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(Reuters) - Hundreds of Hong Kong police used sledgehammers and chainsaws on Tuesday to tear down barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters near government offices and the financial center, reopening a major road for the first time in two weeks.

But late in the evening demonstrators retaliated by swarming into a tunnel on a major four-lane thoroughfare, bringing traffic to a halt and chanting for universal suffrage.

Riot police tried to push them back with pepper spray and batons, according to a local news channel, but later retreated.

"I think the government doesn't respect us," said Kevin Chan, a protester wearing a surgical mask and goggles covering his black glasses, as he stood behind a makeshift wall.

"They have to talk to us and compromise, otherwise we won't stand down."

Traffic flowed freely along Queensway Road after the protesters' obstructions were cleared early in the day, although other major protest sites remained intact in the Admiralty and Mong Kok districts and pro-democracy demonstrators were defiant.

Police with chainsaws cut through bamboo defenses and others wielded sledgehammers to smash concrete blocks outside the Bank of China's Hong Kong headquarters and next to the office of Asia's richest man, Li Ka-shing.

Office workers streamed onto the streets to watch.

Unlike on Monday, when clashes erupted between anti-protest groups and pro-democracy activists after police removed blockades, there was no immediate confrontation as a result of Tuesday's operation.

In the evening, however, hundreds of people made a surprise move to occupy the tunnel on Lung Wo Road, an important east-west artery near the offices of the Hong Kong government and legislature that had been intentionally left open to traffic for most of more than two weeks of protests.

"The police took a road from us today and cleared away tents, so we're taking this road," said Kelvin Chor, one of the protesters.



MORE BARRICADES GO UP

After the police retreated, hundreds of demonstrators swiftly formed several lines of makeshift barricades, setting the stage for another possible flashpoint.

On the road near the tunnel, a replica gravestone bearing a picture of the city's pro-Beijing leader, Leung Chun-ying, was erected with a message: "Even hell doesn't welcome you."

The protesters, most of them students, are demanding full democracy for the former British colony, but their two-week campaign has caused traffic chaos and fueled frustration in the Asian financial hub, draining public support.

China rules Hong Kong under a "one country, two systems" formula that accords the city a degree of autonomy and freedom not enjoyed in mainland China, with universal suffrage an eventual goal.

But Beijing has said only candidates screened by a nomination committee will be able to contest a full city-wide vote to choose the next chief executive in 2017.

Leung said this week there was "zero chance" China's leaders would give in to protesters' demands and change an August decision limiting democracy. The protesters want Leung to step down.

The Hong Kong and Beijing governments have called the protests illegal. Some of the city's most powerful tycoons had earlier warned that occupying the heart of the city to press for democracy could undermine stability.

They have remained largely silent since the protests began.

China's most senior official in Hong Kong, Zhang Xiaoming, hosted a dinner with pro-Beijing lawmakers.

According to Hong Kong's public broadcaster RTHK, he repeated statements made by other officials that the unrest had parallels with a "color revolution", a reference to movements in other countries which forced governments from office.



ATTRITION

By noon on Tuesday, the Queensway Road thoroughfare was open and traffic, including school and tour buses, streamed into the Central business district that is home to global companies such as HSBC Holdings and Standard Chartered.

A main city tram line was also open again and trams were clattering through the district.

"Police have done a good job this time. The traffic is much better now, at least vehicles can move steadily compared with the past week when you couldn't move at all," said Luk Wai-lam, a taxi driver in his 60s.

There had been fears of trouble on Wednesday, with anti-protest taxi and truck drivers setting a deadline for the barricades to go. But a representative of a taxi drivers' group told Reuters on Tuesday his members had no plan for action.

Police, criticized for using tear gas and batons in the first 24 hours of the protests, have adopted a more patient approach, counting on protesters to come under public pressure to clear main arteries. In recent days, police have selectively removed some barriers on the fringes of protest sites.

The number of protesters has fallen off sharply from a peak of about 100,000 at three sites, but observers believe they will sit it out.

"I don't think the protesters, having suffered tear gas, endured the attacks by the anti-occupy people, I don't think they will just surrender unconditionally and leave," said Joseph Wong, political analyst at the University of Hong Kong.

Police said clearing of the barricades was aimed at easing congestion and the protesters could stay, which suggested a strategy of attrition. About 100 activists staged a sit-in outside the Admiralty Centre shopping complex surrounded by scores of police.

Many students believed Monday's clashes were co-ordinated and involved triad criminal groups and people paid to cause trouble, and they reinforced their barricades on Monday night, putting up bamboo scaffolding along one thoroughfare.

They also poured concrete over the foundations of their road blocks and placed bamboo spears in their barricades.

But police swept it all away on Tuesday.



(Additional reporting by Bobby Yip, Carlos Barria and Clare Baldwin, Writing by Anne Marie Roantree and John Ruwitch; Editing by Michael Perry and Mike Collett-White)

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## vietnamese_sausage

Keel said:


> the civil unrest is only restricted to a very small part of HK.
> Mainland is not affected at all
> The HK police ihas already cleared some of the roads and I think more to come in the next few days
> 
> *Hong Kong police use sledgehammers, chainsaws to clear protest barriers, open road*
> BY JAMES POMFRET AND DONNY KWOK
> 
> HONG KONG Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:01pm EDT
> 
> 8 COMMENTS
> 
> Tweet
> 
> View attachment 135076
> 
> 1 OF 12. Police remove a barricade left by pro-democracy protesters on a main road leading to the financial Central district in Hong Kong October 14, 2014.
> 
> CREDIT: REUTERS/BOBBY YIP
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 135077
> 
> *Bringing down the barricades*
> Hong Kong police remove the barricades erected by protesters. Slideshow
> 
> *RELATED NEWS*
> China won't cede to HK protests, army used only as last resort-sources
> 
> *ANALYSIS & OPINION*
> Once the hamburgers are gone, can a regime hold on?
> Measuring political risk in emerging markets
> *RELATED TOPICS*
> World »
> 
> 
> 
> (Reuters) - Hundreds of Hong Kong police used sledgehammers and chainsaws on Tuesday to tear down barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters near government offices and the financial center, reopening a major road for the first time in two weeks.
> 
> But late in the evening demonstrators retaliated by swarming into a tunnel on a major four-lane thoroughfare, bringing traffic to a halt and chanting for universal suffrage.
> 
> Riot police tried to push them back with pepper spray and batons, according to a local news channel, but later retreated.
> 
> "I think the government doesn't respect us," said Kevin Chan, a protester wearing a surgical mask and goggles covering his black glasses, as he stood behind a makeshift wall.
> 
> "They have to talk to us and compromise, otherwise we won't stand down."
> 
> Traffic flowed freely along Queensway Road after the protesters' obstructions were cleared early in the day, although other major protest sites remained intact in the Admiralty and Mong Kok districts and pro-democracy demonstrators were defiant.
> 
> Police with chainsaws cut through bamboo defenses and others wielded sledgehammers to smash concrete blocks outside the Bank of China's Hong Kong headquarters and next to the office of Asia's richest man, Li Ka-shing.
> 
> Office workers streamed onto the streets to watch.
> 
> Unlike on Monday, when clashes erupted between anti-protest groups and pro-democracy activists after police removed blockades, there was no immediate confrontation as a result of Tuesday's operation.
> 
> In the evening, however, hundreds of people made a surprise move to occupy the tunnel on Lung Wo Road, an important east-west artery near the offices of the Hong Kong government and legislature that had been intentionally left open to traffic for most of more than two weeks of protests.
> 
> "The police took a road from us today and cleared away tents, so we're taking this road," said Kelvin Chor, one of the protesters.
> 
> 
> 
> MORE BARRICADES GO UP
> 
> After the police retreated, hundreds of demonstrators swiftly formed several lines of makeshift barricades, setting the stage for another possible flashpoint.
> 
> On the road near the tunnel, a replica gravestone bearing a picture of the city's pro-Beijing leader, Leung Chun-ying, was erected with a message: "Even hell doesn't welcome you."
> 
> The protesters, most of them students, are demanding full democracy for the former British colony, but their two-week campaign has caused traffic chaos and fueled frustration in the Asian financial hub, draining public support.
> 
> China rules Hong Kong under a "one country, two systems" formula that accords the city a degree of autonomy and freedom not enjoyed in mainland China, with universal suffrage an eventual goal.
> 
> But Beijing has said only candidates screened by a nomination committee will be able to contest a full city-wide vote to choose the next chief executive in 2017.
> 
> Leung said this week there was "zero chance" China's leaders would give in to protesters' demands and change an August decision limiting democracy. The protesters want Leung to step down.
> 
> The Hong Kong and Beijing governments have called the protests illegal. Some of the city's most powerful tycoons had earlier warned that occupying the heart of the city to press for democracy could undermine stability.
> 
> They have remained largely silent since the protests began.
> 
> China's most senior official in Hong Kong, Zhang Xiaoming, hosted a dinner with pro-Beijing lawmakers.
> 
> According to Hong Kong's public broadcaster RTHK, he repeated statements made by other officials that the unrest had parallels with a "color revolution", a reference to movements in other countries which forced governments from office.
> 
> 
> 
> ATTRITION
> 
> By noon on Tuesday, the Queensway Road thoroughfare was open and traffic, including school and tour buses, streamed into the Central business district that is home to global companies such as HSBC Holdings and Standard Chartered.
> 
> A main city tram line was also open again and trams were clattering through the district.
> 
> "Police have done a good job this time. The traffic is much better now, at least vehicles can move steadily compared with the past week when you couldn't move at all," said Luk Wai-lam, a taxi driver in his 60s.
> 
> There had been fears of trouble on Wednesday, with anti-protest taxi and truck drivers setting a deadline for the barricades to go. But a representative of a taxi drivers' group told Reuters on Tuesday his members had no plan for action.
> 
> Police, criticized for using tear gas and batons in the first 24 hours of the protests, have adopted a more patient approach, counting on protesters to come under public pressure to clear main arteries. In recent days, police have selectively removed some barriers on the fringes of protest sites.
> 
> The number of protesters has fallen off sharply from a peak of about 100,000 at three sites, but observers believe they will sit it out.
> 
> "I don't think the protesters, having suffered tear gas, endured the attacks by the anti-occupy people, I don't think they will just surrender unconditionally and leave," said Joseph Wong, political analyst at the University of Hong Kong.
> 
> Police said clearing of the barricades was aimed at easing congestion and the protesters could stay, which suggested a strategy of attrition. About 100 activists staged a sit-in outside the Admiralty Centre shopping complex surrounded by scores of police.
> 
> Many students believed Monday's clashes were co-ordinated and involved triad criminal groups and people paid to cause trouble, and they reinforced their barricades on Monday night, putting up bamboo scaffolding along one thoroughfare.
> 
> They also poured concrete over the foundations of their road blocks and placed bamboo spears in their barricades.
> 
> But police swept it all away on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> (Additional reporting by Bobby Yip, Carlos Barria and Clare Baldwin, Writing by Anne Marie Roantree and John Ruwitch; Editing by Michael Perry and Mike Collett-White)


how long can this last? one day only a small crowd. than beeny tai make annoucenment, a few thousand come out to protest. than it dies down, than more protest. never ending story.


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## Keel

vietnamese_sausage said:


> how long can this last? one day only a small crowd. than beeny tai make annoucenment, a few thousand come out to protest. than it dies down, than more protest. never ending story.



The people at large are suffering the pain of disturbance by the criminals on the streets
They are hated. They are the enemy of the society. They are the enemy of the HK People. Would they last any longer?

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## vietnamese_sausage

Keel said:


> The people at large are suffering the pain of disturbance by the criminals on the streets
> They are hated. They are the enemy of the society. They are the enemy of the HK People. Would they last any longer?


yes they will endure as long as the protestors are paid which most are . chinese here say protestors are foreign funded. foreigners have money


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## terranMarine

wishful thinking


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## Keel

vietnamese_sausage said:


> yes they will endure as long as the protestors are paid which most are . chinese here say protestors are foreign funded. foreigners have money



They are a small group of perpetrators
HK just needs bigger prisons to jail the criminals who have been robbing 7 million law abiding people of their normal life for over 2 weeks

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## terranMarine

If the police can't handle it, i welcome the hard approach by the pla

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## vietnamese_sausage

Keel said:


> They are a small group of perpetrators
> HK just needs bigger prisons to jail the criminals who have been robbing 7 million law abiding people of their normal life for over 2 weeks


that isn't going to happen. we both know that.


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## Keel

vietnamese_sausage said:


> that isn't going to happen. we both know that.



Well it is the criminals' choice of whether they will throw away their future living on the streets or go back to schools and companies from where to build their careers 

The world is unforgiving. The environment is unfriendly. How long will these criminals stay on the streets with constant threats and assaults of pepper sprays, police batons and changing weather. They are rendering themselves uncompetitive in the job market

Hongkong is not a place where people are deprived of job opportunities, education, foods, water, electricity or suffering from discrimination and having a corrupt government

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## Rent

Keel said:


> That is a sermon knowing that you country has just gunned down a black folk in Missouri again in the wake of a series of violation of human rights
> If imperialist america has learnt to acquire the knowledge of how to live and let live, then the world will be a better place
> Some stones don want to be gems. They want to be as natural as themselves so no friction is required



I understand your views and the Hong Kongers views as well. 

Throughout history people always have reasons to stand up for a cause which they believe will help others or for their injustice. Some see their cause as valid, some don't. Pleople don't protest just for fun or out of boredom. 

Most people sit around and do nothing, hoping for change. Few stand up, take action, and make the change.

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## Keel

Rent said:


> I understand your views and the Hong Kongers views as well.
> 
> Throughout history people always have reasons to stand up for a cause which they believe will help others or for their injustice. Some see their cause as valid, some don't. Pleople don't protest just for fun or out of boredom.
> 
> Most people sit around and do nothing, hoping for change. Few stand up, take action, and make the change.



People are allowed as much as they want in the world for their protests, sit-ins in Hongkong,
but not in a manner that is severely disrupting the livelihoods of the vast majority of people who are not actively participating with them for more than 2 weeks

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## vietnamese_sausage

Rent said:


> I understand your views and the Hong Kongers views as well.
> 
> Throughout history people always have reasons to stand up for a cause which they believe will help others or for their injustice. Some see their cause as valid, some don't. Pleople don't protest just for fun or out of boredom.
> 
> Most people sit around and do nothing, hoping for change. Few stand up, take action, and make the change.


when vietnamese protest we are for real. see the news from may and june. these students are a joke. proposing marriage, sleeping on bed in the middle of the road, cuddling, taking selfies. pla is not even needed.

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## Keel

vietnamese_sausage said:


> when vietnamese protest we are for real. see the news from may and june. these students are a joke. proposing marriage, sleeping on bed in the middle of the road, cuddling, taking selfies. pla is not even needed.



That is right and people protest and create upheavals that can last for a good length of time because they are not satisfyied with the quality of lives or how they are treated in a society.

Vietnam possesses the right climate to launch a massive protests for a change. Same applies to countries like India, the Philippines, Brazil ... where you can find massive area of slums

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## Rent

Keel said:


> That is right and people protest and create upheavals that can last for a good length of time because they are not satisfyied with the quality of lives or how they are treated in a society.
> 
> Vietnam possesses the right climate to launch a massive protests for a change. Same applies to countries like India, the Philippines, Brazil ... where you can find massive area of slums


If you look at this protest in short term, yes, it does take a toll in the economy. Stocks here are down. But in long term, this protest, if they were successful, it would benefit not just Hong Kong but China people as a whole.

We Vietnamese-American held massive protest on big issue in regards to human rights for Vietnam, but most of the time we petition to Congress. But since we are ocean apart from our land of origin, changes are slow to reach Vietnam. Although my government (USA), does speak out on our behalf when they do visit Vietnam and we are thankful for that. 

I see a lot of Chinese here are anti-American. Is there a reason for this? 

China and USA does a lot of business together. Most of everything here are made in China. 

I regards to India, Brazil, and Phillipine, they are already establishing democracy in their country. Indian are sentimental and very religious people despite what you have heard from others in this forum, they are very kind hearted people. Their government can't just evict them and bulldozer over their existing homes to built new ones. This process will take time and money. An authoritarian government would have completed this project already, since they would use force rather than persuasion.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Rent said:


> Indian are sentimental and very religious people despite what you have heard from others in this forum, they are very kind hearted people. Their government can't just evict them and bulldozer over their existing homes to built new ones. This process will take time and money. An authoritarian government would have completed this project already, since they would use force rather than persuasion.



BBC News - Delhi street vendors evicted before Commonwealth Games

It's right to boycott the Commonwealth Games | Kapil Komireddi | Comment is free | theguardian.com

India: Forced evictions skyrocket due to Commonwealth Games | ESCR-Net

They didn't bulldoze existing homes for new homes.

They bulldozed existing homes and built stadiums that will be used once, for no compensation. Those stadiums also utilized child labor.

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## Rent

FairAndUnbiased said:


> BBC News - Delhi street vendors evicted before Commonwealth Games
> 
> It's right to boycott the Commonwealth Games | Kapil Komireddi | Comment is free | theguardian.com
> 
> India: Forced evictions skyrocket due to Commonwealth Games | ESCR-Net
> 
> They didn't bulldoze existing homes for new homes.
> 
> They bulldozed existing homes and built stadiums that will be used once, for no compensation. Those stadiums also utilized child labor.


Thank you for sharing this. This is old news. In this case, this is where people would need to speak up or held protest and appeal to their government. Amnesty International have adressed this with India back in 2010. India's democracy in currently only partial as they would have to overcome status quo first.

This following was what the India government addressed

ensure that evictions are carried out only as a last resort, and only in full compliance with requirements under international human rights standards;


ensure that those who have been evicted are provided with adequate alternative housing and/or land to undertake their livelihoods as a matter of urgency;


ensure that any alternative housing that is provided complies with requirements for adequacy of housing, under international human rights standards; and


provide all victims of forced evictions with access to effective remedies.

Indian authorities address the growing number of labour rights abuses and violations of labour laws practised by various state agencies and private firms involved in construction activities, despite the efforts of a four-member committee appointed by a directive of the Delhi High Court to monitor such violations. These violations, documented by India’s human rights organizations, included irregular registration, denial of statutory minimum wages, equal payment of wages to women workers and statutory health benefits, poor safety standards leading to deaths of workers in accidents and occasional use of child labour.


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## Keel

Rent said:


> If you look at this protest in short term, yes, it does take a toll in the economy. Stocks here are down. But in long term, this protest, if they were successful, it would benefit not just Hong Kong but China people as a whole.



dont worship "democracy" like it is the almighty that can fix everything

as I mentioned in my post a black guy was killed in Missouri after a series of "witch-hunting" like crimes against the black community. How long has the USA been trying to eradicate race discrimnation since G. Washington and fail? And you are the "democracy" of the world?



> We Vietnamese-American held massive protest on big issue in regards to human rights for Vietnam, but most of the time we petition to Congress. But since we are ocean apart from our land of origin, changes are slow to reach Vietnam. Although my government (USA), does speak out on our behalf when they do visit Vietnam and we are thankful for that.



so you are saying change is slow or not at all in VN then you, alongside some of the Vietnam-flagged members here are defeating your advocates for the criminals on the streets of HK who are demanding an immediate change to the electoral system while the HK government and CPC are stipulating a gradual progression towards universal suffrage 



> I see a lot of Chinese here are anti-American. Is there a reason for this?



Read post #121 please. That was just focusing on the topic in discussion. There are many other things in which China and USA have opposite and conflicting stances 



> China and USA does a lot of business together. Most of everything here are made in China


.

Business is business
Sports are sports
Politics is different - it may cause bloodbath. 



> I regards to India, Brazil, and Phillipine, they are already establishing democracy in their country. Indian are sentimental and very religious people despite what you have heard from others in this forum, they are very kind hearted people. Their government can't just evict them and bulldozer over their existing homes to built new ones. This process will take time and money. An authoritarian government would have completed this project already, since they would use force rather than persuasion.



There are perhaps more atrocities done in India alone than China
YOu still miss my point. "democracy" is not God!

Again if you allow India, Brazil, the Philippines and as you also claimed Vietnam the patience to change over time then why you are supporting HK criminals to change the system in HK drastically? You are double standard and contradicing yourself.

India has done and is still doing a lot of bad things to its people a lot more than "house eviction" despite its claim of the largest "democracy" 



Rent said:


> India's democracy in currently* only partia*l as they would have to overcome status quo first.



I dont think India nor the American presidents will agree to this statement.

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## Rent

Keel said:


> dont worship "democracy" as it is the almighty that can fix everything
> 
> as I mentioned in my post a black guy was killed in Missouri after a series of "witch-hunting" like crimes against the black community. How long has the USA been trying to eradicate race discrimnation since G. Washington and fail? And you are the "democracy" of the world?
> 
> 
> 
> so you are saying change is slow or not at all in VN then you, alongside some of the Vietnam-flagged members here are defeating your advocates for the criminals on the streets of HK who are demanding an immediate change to the electoral system while the HK government and CPC are stipulating a gradual progression towards universal suffrage
> 
> 
> 
> Read post #121 please. That was just focusing on the topic in discussion. There are many other things in which China and USA have opposite and conflicting stances
> 
> .
> 
> Business is business
> Sports are sports
> Politics is different - it may cause bloodbath.
> 
> 
> 
> There are perhaps more atrocities done in India alone than China
> YOu still miss my point. "democracy" is not God!
> 
> Again if you allow India, Brazil, the Philippines and as you also claimed Vietnam the patience to change over time then why you are supporting HK criminals to change the system in HK drastically? You are double standard and contradicing yourself.
> 
> India has done and is still doing a lot of bad things to its people a lot more than "house eviction" despite its claim of the largest "democracy"
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think India nor the American presidents will agree to that statement.


There are gangs and violence in this world. You fix one another takes its place. It is an ongoing battle for police. Sometimes mistake happens. We are all just human. 

As for the case you presented. It was resolved. The officer was removed from his position. Protester made their point. They showed that unity is power.
Ferguson police chief apologizes over black teen's shooting - Yahoo News

I never said Democracy is God, but it is the only system present that helps protect the people in such within the rules of law and limits the power of government officials. Changes takes time. I am not trying to advocate democracy. I am just defending it. Government officials are not born with the abilities to read our minds. How would they know what we need without asking us or by us telling them? Changes don't happen immediately with protest. It take months or years. There is a process that takes place.

Please read factor effecting democracy in India in the link provided below. I am not that good with India's politics.
Democracy in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think I will stop here. I don't want us to argue over this. Please feel free to ask me anything you like. 

Thank you for taking your time out to reply.

Best Regards.

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## TaiShang

*HK: Anti-Occupy voices get louder *


It's the 17th day of the Occupy Central movement in Hong Kong. Tensions are rising between pro- and anti-Occupy groups, with several scuffles breaking out between the two camps in recent days. The protests have also disrupted business and daily life, leading more and more residents to call on authorities to clear the streets as soon as possible.

*The police continue their operation to clear the protesters' barricades. Early on Tuesday morning, they removed some barriers in Causeway. Westbound traffic has been restored on Yee Woo street, which has been closed down for over two weeks. And hours later, they started clearance in another major street in Admiralty.*

At the Queensway street in Admiralty, you can see the police are removing the barricades set up by the protesters. The police say their action is to allow the resumption of traffic here.

The police operation started on Monday, as they dismantled some roadblocks in Mongkok and Admiralty. The officers said they would continue removing barricades in the occupied areas. Many residents say they support the police action.

*"These student protesters are too naive," a Hong Kong resident said. "It's illegal for them to occupy the roads. Wherever it is, it's wrong. No matter it's in the US or UK. “*

"These young protesters are damaging Hong Kong's economy," Hong Kong resident said. "They are destroying Hong Kong's prosperity, which is created by us older generations.”

As the demonstration entered the third week, the anti-Occupy voices are getting louder. *On Monday, dozens of men attempted to remove barricades erected by the protesters near the government headquarters. Scores of cab drivers honked their horns in support of the removal of the barricades. In recent days, several groups have launched different movement to oppose the occupy protests.*

One group initiated an assembly to gather people's signatures to demand demonstrators to leave the streets. The group said they will launch *a "counter-encirclement" movement* to push the occupants out the street if the government does not clear them. 

Earlier, Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying spoke to a local TV that the Occupy Central movement has "spun out of control", and the situation could not last long.

*The government doesn't want to clear protesters from the streets unless it has to," Leung said. "But if that day does come, the police will use the minimum force required reduce the repercussions as far as possible.We don't want to see young people get hurt.”*

Despite the government's repeated orders to disperse, the protesters still vow to stay until they see clear signs of progress. But with the rising anti-Occupy sentiment, many warn more possible clashes between the pro- and anti-Occupy camps. The police have called each side to be calm and rational to avoid violence.

*HK retailers report sharp drop in sales*


As the protests in Hong Kong continue for a third week, the costs are mounting. What impact will the disruption to business have on the city as a global financial centre and gateway to the mainland?

The scene along Queen’s Road Central; fronting Li Ka-shing’s Cheung Kong Centre ; after police removed barricades at the city’s business district as the protests entered its third week.

In contrast, the barricades are still up leading all the way to Admiralty ; keeping Wanchai’s main roads shut to traffic.

I’m walking along a main thoroughfare here in Wanchai at rush hour - the third Monday since the protest rallies; and the length of this is still blocked from traffic. Head over there in Admiralty and you’ll end up with pitched tents of protestors. These barricades have driven trucks, buses and cars to the side streets over there, causing major bottlenecks and lengthy delays. It has also caused business in the city to slow even more.

A few blocks down along Johnston Road; still none of the usual trams around here. But the roads have remained open to traffic.

While it has helped keep small jewellery shops like these open for business even at the height of the protests; its shop keeper says sales have been hard hit.

What’s starting to look like the new normal in Hong Kong; is beginning to worry those who crunch the numbers. To what extent, depends on how long the disruptions last, says

Raymond Yeung of ANZ’d. He’s become more pessimistic now than when we first spoke to him a week ago.

*“In Hong Kong, the fourth quarter GDP contributes significantly or higher than previous quarters. For example on average, 27% of the annual GDP. So anything happens to the fourth quarter will have a bigger impact on the annual growth of Hong Kong. At this stage, I’m still looking at 2.5% GDP growth this year but the chance for me to revise it downwards is much higher than before,” Yeung said.*

In nearby Causeway Bay ; where Hennessy Road continues to be blocked by protesters for a third straight week -

It has hurt shops like these; even more. Even before the disruptions began, the jewellery chain already saw a 40 percent drop in sales, as Mainland tourists reduced lavish spending amid Beijing’s corruption crackdown.

Just a few shops away - sales of this pharmacy have plunged 60 percent since the protest rallies, says the shopkeeper. He refused to be interviewed; but shared with us that it has been pretty bad, especially as his shop is located in a tourist area.

Business in Hong Kong had already been sluggish since the start of the year. A prolonged protest raises the specter of an even slower growing Hong Kong in the months ahead.

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## BoQ77




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## Nan Yang

Rent said:


> If you look at this protest in short term, yes, it does take a toll in the economy. Stocks here are down. But in long term, this protest, if they were successful, it would benefit not just Hong Kong but China people as a whole.
> 
> We Vietnamese-American held massive protest on big issue in regards to human rights for Vietnam, but most of the time we petition to Congress. But since we are ocean apart from our land of origin, changes are slow to reach Vietnam. Although my government (USA), does speak out on our behalf when they do visit Vietnam and we are thankful for that.
> 
> I see a lot of Chinese here are anti-American. Is there a reason for this?
> 
> China and USA does a lot of business together. Most of everything here are made in China.
> 
> I regards to India, Brazil, and Phillipine, they are already establishing democracy in their country. Indian are sentimental and very religious people despite what you have heard from others in this forum, they are very kind hearted people. Their government can't just evict them and bulldozer over their existing homes to built new ones. This process will take time and money. An authoritarian government would have completed this project already, since they would use force rather than persuasion.



For a developing country, multi party democracy system is a hindrence.
The road to development is already well proven.

1. One party authoritarian government to ensure political stability
2. Mass manufacturing to absorb the poor masses
3. Low currency to drive export
4. Infrastructure building to facilitate manufacturing and export

Economies that did that.
Hong Kong
Taiwan
South Korea
Singapore
Malaysia
China

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## Rent

BoQ77 said:


> View attachment 136198
> 
> 
> View attachment 136215
> 
> 
> View attachment 136216


The protest is still going?

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## Rent

Nan Yang said:


> For a developing country, multi party democracy system is a hindrence.
> The road to development is already well proven.
> 
> 1. One party authoritarian government to ensure political stability
> 2. Mass manufacturing to absorb the poor masses
> 3. Low currency to drive export
> 4. Infrastructure building to facilitate manufacturing and export
> 
> Economies that did that.
> Hong Kong
> Taiwan
> South Korea
> Singapore
> Malaysia
> China


Thank you for letting me know your view @Nan Yang. If people are happy with their government then there is no need for change.


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## STEVEN囧

Finally the day came and the west is hailing themselves.
Right now those editors or media and politicians are preparing for the impressive news to present their democracy and rights by impartial and trusted news.And large amount of negative news of HK government and Chinese government is brought about.

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## TaiShang

*Occupy Central’s blunders will be its ruin*


The illegal Occupy Central movement, which was instigated by the Hong Kong radical opposition camp, still continues. Beijing has used the term "Color Revolution" to describe the protests. *With the escalating situation, participants need to back off in time and society should help them overcome intensive emotions.* 

Having lasted for nearly 20 days, Occupy Central has brought nothing but chaos to Hong Kong society. The central government is unwavering in its attitude. There are growing voices criticizing Occupy Central for impinging on the rule of law and calling on the Hong Kong government to resume order as soon as possible. 

Occupy Central has no future as it is based upon wrong geopolitical calculations. *Hong Kong is the region of China which is closer to the West.* The "one country, two systems" policy acknowledges the specialty of Hong Kong. How to exert this specialty is of vital significance to the region's destiny. 

*Sandwiched between the Chinese mainland and the West, it's impossible to exclude Hong Kong from China-US strategic competition, which has been expanding in an increasing number of areas. Hong Kong is confronted with varied options. It could choose to be an important communicator between the mainland and the West. If it succeeds, the role of Hong Kong will be irreplaceable, even after the mainland kicks off an all-round opening-up to the outside world. Hong Kong should avoid stepping into the irreconcilable divergences between the Chinese mainland and the West. It would fare better if it took advantage of both sides. *

The blunder of the Occupy Central forces lies in attempting to politically push Hong Kong back to the Western world through forcing it to choose a side. *They've put Hong Kong on the chessboard of China-US competition in a high-profile position. They are making a childish political gamble. *

Despite its support for Occupy Central, Washington is contemplating to what extent it should interfere in it. *The Chinese central government has multiple ways to macro-control the Hong Kong situation, and if the US openly confronts China, it won't stand a chance.* 

It is not in Hong Kong's interests to slide into the Western camp. Every time the forces instigated by the West make efforts to push Hong Kong into the Western camp, the whole of Hong Kong pays the price. *Given the strong soft power of the West, they could easily implant unrealistic aspirations into the minds of some Hong Kong groups. If Hong Kong is dragged into a tug of war between the central government and the West, the Hong Kong public will suffer and Hong Kong as an Asian financial hub is doomed to decline. *

The mainstream of Hong Kong society should object to any intention of turning Hong Kong into a boxing ring between China and the West. Nobody is truly concerned with Hong Kong's future save the mainland and Hong Kong itself. For Hong Kong's own sake, Occupy Central must end.

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## STEVEN囧

ClassicMan said:


> I support young rational intellectuals like them who recognizes the faults in their government's system and doing something about it.


you should change your government and country but put your eyes on other nations everyday..
Do you think your country is very good and developed?

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## TaiShang

*Occupy Central mirrors geopolitical shift*
By Ding Gang


Shenzhen and Hong Kong are separated by a single narrow river. My first visit to Hong Kong was four years ago. Back then I took an 80 yuan ($13) shuttle bus from Shenzhen Airport and arrived in central Hong Kong two hours later, right at the place where the ongoing Occupy Central movement is underway.

I remember walking through the district, looking around street corners, and seeing in the stores many tourists from the Chinese mainland, just like me.

*How many of us can still remember hearing of vast numbers of mainlanders risking their lives to flee to Hong Kong just a few decades ago? 

The Beijing-based Global People magazine interviewed Chen Bing'an, author of The Great Exodus, in its early September edition. Chen estimated that a total of more than 1 million people fled to Hong Kong after 1949. 

He also cited other statistics: In 1978 the annual per capital income of farmers in Shenzhen was only 134 yuan ($21.8), while farmers living in Hong Kong's New Territories could earn as high as HK$13,000 ($1675.7).*

But that was exactly the year of transformation. The Third Plenary Session of the 11th CPC Central Committee was convened in December 1978.

Three decades later, UK scholar Martin Jacques wrote "And - with a little historical license - we should regard 1978 more properly as marking the beginning of the 21st century, the event that ushered in a new epoch, though barely anyone could possibly have realized it at the time" in an opinion piece published in the Guardian in May 2006. *A radical change rarely seen during the past 500 years kicked off in 1978.*

This is the historical background for the story of today's Hong Kong. *Hong Kong is no longer a showcase, a banner, or a fortress, but rather has become a Chinese city at a similar level with Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou or Chongqing. *

*Before 1997, the strategic position of Hong Kong was decided by its identity as a British colony and by the Cold War architecture. The Cold War also turned the city into a fortress. This position started to change with China's reform and opening-up policy.*

However, it should be noted that Cold War geopolitics wrought differences not only in systems, but also in people's mentality, understanding of history and views of democracy.

*The Occupy Central movement reflects Hongkongers' identity crisis and mental maladjustment, both brought about by geopolitical changes. That can also explain why Hong Kong has long been mired in the center of geopolitical controversy. *

Nowadays, *Chinese investors are looking around Asia and around the world for their next opportunity. Chinese tourists can also be found everywhere. They bring not merely money, but also their perspectives of the current global political and economic orders. Their outlook of global order derived from an oriental culture distinct from Western traditions.*

When news of Occupy Central first broke, one of my colleagues was interviewing a businessman from Central China's Hunan Province on a 3,800-meter-high plateau in Bolivia.

She told me that the Chinese firm had given the poverty-stricken village in the Andes Mountains an unprecedented opportunity for development. Now villagers there have smart phones.

Sharing China's development dividend has become a pervasive phenomenon in Asia. *The 2008 global financial crisis shook the foundation of global public trust in the US and Europe. Meanwhile, Asia has seen accelerated geopolitical changes, and China's image has become increasingly positive. This partly explains why some in the US and the UK are so excited about the Occupy Central movement in Hong Kong.*

In the past, the rise of great powers determined the direction of geopolitical order. *Occupy Central reminds us that the formation of a new geopolitical order requires not just the rebalancing of regional power structures, but also the restructuring of intellectual identities.* The later may takes longer time.

Nevertheless, *a re-configuration of the Asian order is now inevitable, although economic integration within the region has yet to be reflected at the level of political coordination. *

The influence of the old order will fade away on the historical stage, a trend that Hong Kong can in no way change.

_The author is a senior editor with People's Daily. He is now stationed in Brazil. dinggang@globaltimes.com.cn. Follow him on Twitter at @dinggangchina

@Edison Chen , @tranquilium , @Chinese-Dragon , @FairAndUnbiased , @terranMarine _

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## Edison Chen

I think the Hong Kong authority's attitude at first is just: let it go, I don't think they do not have any complaint about China central government. They want the protesters to do something that they can't do bureaucratically, because the central government is unhappy. But things are going out of control later on, some protestors do not even know what they were doing. Whatever we say the western is behind all this, we can't deny that some HKers are really not satisfied with the status quo, their pride is gone, HK city is growing to a limit, being surpassed by Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen with enormous potential and strong direct support from a whole country of 1.4 bn people.

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## BoQ77

Rent said:


> The protest is still going?








Police use pepper spray on pro-democracy protesters at an area near the government headquarters building in Hong Kong early Thursday. | REUTERS

------------------------------------------

*Police actions in Hong Kong protests spark outrage*
AP



Oct 16, 2014
Article history
PRINT
 SHARE 
HONG KONG – Riot police moving against activists sparked outrage after officers were seen kicking a handcuffed protester and dragging dozens of others away Wednesday in the worst violence against the pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong since they began more than two weeks ago.

Clashes that erupted before dawn Wednesday continued early Thursday as police used pepper spray to push back crowds of protesters trying to occupy a road outside the government’s headquarters.



Tensions were high but the scenes were not as chaotic as on Wednesday, when protesters were knocked to the ground by hundreds of police, some with batons, pepper spray and shields.

The clashes have worsened an already bitter standoff between authorities and activists who have taken over key roads and streets in the city to press for democratic reforms.

“Hong Kong police have gone insane today, carrying out their own punishment in private,” said pro-democracy lawmaker Lee Cheuk-yan. “Hong Kong’s values and its rule of law really have been completely destroyed by police chiefs.”

Public anger over the aggressive tactics exploded after local TV showed officers taking a protester around a dark corner and kicking him repeatedly on the ground. It’s unclear what provoked the attack. Local Now TV showed him splashing water on officers beforehand.

Protester Ken Tsang said he was kicked while he was “detained and defenseless.” He added that he was assaulted again in the police station afterward.

Tsang, a member of a pro-democracy political party, lifted his shirt to show reporters injuries to his torso and said he is considering legal action against police.

Police spokesman Steve Hui said seven officers who were involved have been temporarily reassigned, and that authorities will carry out an impartial investigation. Police arrested 45 demonstrators in the clashes, and said five officers were injured.

China’s central government issued its harshest condemnations yet of the protests, calling them illegal, bad for business and against Hong Kong’s best interests. Beijing has become increasingly impatient with the demonstrations, the biggest challenge to its authority since China took control of the former British colony in 1997.

A front-page editorial Wednesday in the People’s Daily, the ruling Communist Party’s mouthpiece, condemned the protests and said “they are doomed to fail.”

“Facts and history tell us that radical and illegal acts that got their way only result in more severe illegal activities, exacerbating disorder and turmoil,” the commentary said. “Stability is bliss, and turmoil brings havoc.”

There were no signs, however, that Beijing was planning to become directly involved in suppressing the mostly peaceful demonstrations, which began Sept. 26 and have posed an unprecedented challenge to the government.

The protests have marshaled opposition to plans for a pro-Beijing committee to screen candidates in Hong Kong’s first election to choose the city’s chief executive in 2017. Activists also want Leung Chun-ying, the current leader who is deeply unpopular, to resign.

Leung, who described the protests as being “out of control,” told reporters that officials are willing to talk to protesters, but reiterated that Beijing will not drop the election restrictions. He canceled a leader’s questions session at the Legislative Council on Thursday, citing security risks.

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the U.S. was deeply concerned by the reports of the police actions and urged a “swift, transparent and complete investigation.” She said respect for rule of law and fundamental freedoms remained crucial to Hong Kong’s reputation as a center of global commerce, and reiterated a U.S. call for Hong Kong authorities to show restraint.

The police operation early Wednesday came hours after a large group of protesters blockaded the underpass, expanding their protest zone in apparent retaliation after police closed in on the occupied areas and cleared activists out of a key thoroughfare.

Police said the protesters were gathering illegally and disrupting public order, and thus had to be dispersed. They added that the activists were using umbrellas to attack officers. Umbrellas have been a symbol of the demonstrations after protesters used them to fend off tear gas and pepper spray last month.

“Some of us were sleeping in the park when more than a hundred of them ran toward us with torches as if they’re trying to blind us temporarily. We were not prepared for how aggressive they were,” said protester Simon Lam, 22.

Julie Lee, 50, said she was charged with obstructing police “even though I had my hands up and eyes closed.”

She said she was arrested at 3 a.m. while sitting outside the chief executive’s office. She said she saw a group of around 20 police officers coming at her, shouting like they were out of control and for protesters to “Move!”

“We are peaceful protesters and I wanted to show I was nonviolent, so I put my hands up and I shut my eyes,” Lee said. “The police roughly pulled me up and brought me to Wong Chuk Hang detention center. I was later told that four officers had pulled me up together, but I don’t remember because it was so chaotic.”

After attempts to disperse protesters with tear gas and pepper spray two weeks ago, police adopted a strategy of chipping away at the three protest zones by removing barricades from the edges of the occupied areas in early morning hours, when the crowd numbers are usually lowest.

But Wednesday’s raid was the most violent so far, with police charging the protesters and dragging them away. One officer ripped a face mask off an activist before using pepper spray on him, according to a video on the website of the South China Morning Post.

Positions on both sides have been hardening since the government called off negotiations last week, citing the unlikelihood of a constructive outcome.

Beijing is eager to end the protests to avoid emboldening activists and others on the mainland seen as a threat to the Communist Party’s monopoly on power.

Zhang Xiaoming, director of the central government’s liaison office in Hong Kong, was quoted as telling local legislators Tuesday that the protest movement “is a serious social and political incident.”

Zhang said the movement challenged Beijing’s authority and had caused the city to suffer huge economic losses. It had “hurt the basis of Hong Kong’s rule of law, democratic development, social harmony, international image and its relations with the mainland,” he said.

Zhang urged an end to the protests as soon as possible.

But Lam, the student protester, said he was bracing for more tensions as the distrust of police grows.

“Now there is a feeling we are not just here to fool around or just to sit peacefully. We are feeling more prepared. We have become more united in building defenses,” Lam said.

------------------------------------

*Image problem for police as video of officers beating protester is beamed around the world*
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 16 October, 2014, 4:41am
UPDATED : Thursday, 16 October, 2014, 9:02am





Pan-democracy legislators protest for Ken Tsang at Legco Building. Photo: Sam Tsang
Graphic video footage that appears to show seven police officers beating protester Ken Tsang Kin-chiu - whose hands were bound with plastic ties - have plunged a force already under severe pressure deeper into turmoil.

As the clamour for either a full public inquiry or the criminal prosecution of the officers in the video - which was beamed around the world - grows, it has emerged that at least one of the officers involved was a senior detective in the Organised Crime and Triad Bureau (OCTB).

Several sources have confirmed that OCTB Detective Chief Inspector Joe Wong Cho-shing can be seen in the video wearing a black vest bearing the initials OCTB over an open-necked white shirt.

It is understood that Wong - a high-flier thought to be in line for promotion to superintendent - was in command of a team put together for Occupy duties comprising officers from his own unit and Kwun Tong district's anti-triad squad.

One officer, who works with Wong said: "He was with guys from the Kwun Tong anti-triad squad due to the chaotic scenes and was in charge. They are in deep s*** but there's nothing we can do about it."



Ken Tsang takes the injury assessment at Ruttonjee Hospital in Wan Chai. Photo: AP

Wong, who has had a fairly high-profile role in the fight against human trafficking, can be seen in the video apparently acting as a lookout as the others appear to be take turns to kick and punch 39-year-old Civic Party member Tsang, as he lies on the ground in a darkened recess.

The police have confirmed officially that two of the seven officers were inspectors and five junior police officers. The _Post _understands that non of the officers have been suspended but have been reassigned to their units, away from Occupy duties.

The drama unfolded as police cleared out the Lung Wo Road area early yesterday morning, using pepper spray on protesters and arresting 45 people.

"From what we have seen, Tsang was already handcuffed with plastic tapes ... and taken to a dark corner and beaten up," Civic Party leader Alan Leong Kah-kit said, adding: "This use of power and police force is a blatant abuse of power, and from the look of it, the [officers] should at least be investigated on assault to [induce] actual bodily harm."



A pro-democracy protester cries as he holds a placard with photos of Ken Tsang during a rally in front of the police headquarters in Wan Chai. Photo: Reuters

A few hours after the video footage was aired, photos emerged of Tsang showing several bruises on his face.

Secretary for Security Lai Tung-kwok said that "the personnel concerned have been transferred away from the current positions".

A police statement said the footage showed officers "who are suspected of using excessive force". It added that the police had taken "immediate actions" and would investigate "impartially". The Complaints Against Police Office had received a complaint and would handle it.

One of Tsang's lawyers and Civic Party lawmaker Dennis Kwok said Tsang was taken under police escort to Ruttonjee Hospital. Kwok claimed his client had been "punched and slapped" while in detention.

Independent Police Complaints Council member Eric Cheung Tat-ming said the video footage provided prima-facie evidence that the officers may have committed criminal assault.

Occupy Central organisers condemned the officers. And secretary-general of the Federation of Students Alex Chow Yong-kong called the officers' actions unreasonable and an abuse of authority.

Human Rights Monitor's director Law Yuk-kai said the officers may have breached the Crimes (Torture) Ordinance, which carries life sentences for those found guilty of inflicting severe pain on another person while performing official duties.

Law said their observers, wearing identifying vests and helmets, had also been attacked by police. The force had not responded to the claim by last night.

In 2012, Tsang was forcibly removed after he protested at the swearing in ceremony for Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. Tsang called for the end to one-party rule just moments before then-president Hu Jintao's address.

*Emily Tsang, Niall Fraser, Tony Cheung, Jennifer Ngo, Fanny Fung, Jeffie Lam, Lana Lam and Clifford Lo*

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## BoQ77

> SHANGHAI, Oct 16 (Reuters) - Chinese censors have blocked the website of Britain's national broadcaster, the BBC said in a statement late on Wednesday, coming as tensions rise in Hong Kong between pro-democracy protesters and police.
> 
> The broadcaster said that the move seemed to be "deliberate censorship". It did not say what may have prompted the move by Beijing, which also blocks the websites of the New York Times, newswire Bloomberg and the BBC's Chinese language website.
> 
> "The BBC strongly condemns any attempts to restrict free access to news and information and we are protesting to the Chinese authorities. This appears to be deliberate censorship," said Peter Horrocks, director of the BBC World Service Group.
> 
> The BBC's English-language website was still inaccessible in China on Thursday morning.
> 
> In Hong Kong, police used pepper spray early on Thursday to stop pro-democracy protesters from blocking a major road near the office of the city's embattled leader amid public anger over the police beating a protester a day earlier.


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## Rent

BoQ77 said:


> View attachment 136379
> 
> Police use pepper spray on pro-democracy protesters at an area near the government headquarters building in Hong Kong early Thursday. | REUTERS
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> *Police actions in Hong Kong protests spark outrage*
> AP
> 
> 
> 
> Oct 16, 2014
> Article history
> PRINT
> SHARE
> HONG KONG – Riot police moving against activists sparked outrage after officers were seen kicking a handcuffed protester and dragging dozens of others away Wednesday in the worst violence against the pro-democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong since they began more than two weeks ago.
> 
> Clashes that erupted before dawn Wednesday continued early Thursday as police used pepper spray to push back crowds of protesters trying to occupy a road outside the government’s headquarters.
> 
> 
> 
> Tensions were high but the scenes were not as chaotic as on Wednesday, when protesters were knocked to the ground by hundreds of police, some with batons, pepper spray and shields.
> 
> The clashes have worsened an already bitter standoff between authorities and activists who have taken over key roads and streets in the city to press for democratic reforms.
> 
> “Hong Kong police have gone insane today, carrying out their own punishment in private,” said pro-democracy lawmaker Lee Cheuk-yan. “Hong Kong’s values and its rule of law really have been completely destroyed by police chiefs.”
> 
> Public anger over the aggressive tactics exploded after local TV showed officers taking a protester around a dark corner and kicking him repeatedly on the ground. It’s unclear what provoked the attack. Local Now TV showed him splashing water on officers beforehand.
> 
> Protester Ken Tsang said he was kicked while he was “detained and defenseless.” He added that he was assaulted again in the police station afterward.
> 
> Tsang, a member of a pro-democracy political party, lifted his shirt to show reporters injuries to his torso and said he is considering legal action against police.
> 
> Police spokesman Steve Hui said seven officers who were involved have been temporarily reassigned, and that authorities will carry out an impartial investigation. Police arrested 45 demonstrators in the clashes, and said five officers were injured.
> 
> China’s central government issued its harshest condemnations yet of the protests, calling them illegal, bad for business and against Hong Kong’s best interests. Beijing has become increasingly impatient with the demonstrations, the biggest challenge to its authority since China took control of the former British colony in 1997.
> 
> A front-page editorial Wednesday in the People’s Daily, the ruling Communist Party’s mouthpiece, condemned the protests and said “they are doomed to fail.”
> 
> “Facts and history tell us that radical and illegal acts that got their way only result in more severe illegal activities, exacerbating disorder and turmoil,” the commentary said. “Stability is bliss, and turmoil brings havoc.”
> 
> There were no signs, however, that Beijing was planning to become directly involved in suppressing the mostly peaceful demonstrations, which began Sept. 26 and have posed an unprecedented challenge to the government.
> 
> The protests have marshaled opposition to plans for a pro-Beijing committee to screen candidates in Hong Kong’s first election to choose the city’s chief executive in 2017. Activists also want Leung Chun-ying, the current leader who is deeply unpopular, to resign.
> 
> Leung, who described the protests as being “out of control,” told reporters that officials are willing to talk to protesters, but reiterated that Beijing will not drop the election restrictions. He canceled a leader’s questions session at the Legislative Council on Thursday, citing security risks.
> 
> In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the U.S. was deeply concerned by the reports of the police actions and urged a “swift, transparent and complete investigation.” She said respect for rule of law and fundamental freedoms remained crucial to Hong Kong’s reputation as a center of global commerce, and reiterated a U.S. call for Hong Kong authorities to show restraint.
> 
> The police operation early Wednesday came hours after a large group of protesters blockaded the underpass, expanding their protest zone in apparent retaliation after police closed in on the occupied areas and cleared activists out of a key thoroughfare.
> 
> Police said the protesters were gathering illegally and disrupting public order, and thus had to be dispersed. They added that the activists were using umbrellas to attack officers. Umbrellas have been a symbol of the demonstrations after protesters used them to fend off tear gas and pepper spray last month.
> 
> “Some of us were sleeping in the park when more than a hundred of them ran toward us with torches as if they’re trying to blind us temporarily. We were not prepared for how aggressive they were,” said protester Simon Lam, 22.
> 
> Julie Lee, 50, said she was charged with obstructing police “even though I had my hands up and eyes closed.”
> 
> She said she was arrested at 3 a.m. while sitting outside the chief executive’s office. She said she saw a group of around 20 police officers coming at her, shouting like they were out of control and for protesters to “Move!”
> 
> “We are peaceful protesters and I wanted to show I was nonviolent, so I put my hands up and I shut my eyes,” Lee said. “The police roughly pulled me up and brought me to Wong Chuk Hang detention center. I was later told that four officers had pulled me up together, but I don’t remember because it was so chaotic.”
> 
> After attempts to disperse protesters with tear gas and pepper spray two weeks ago, police adopted a strategy of chipping away at the three protest zones by removing barricades from the edges of the occupied areas in early morning hours, when the crowd numbers are usually lowest.
> 
> But Wednesday’s raid was the most violent so far, with police charging the protesters and dragging them away. One officer ripped a face mask off an activist before using pepper spray on him, according to a video on the website of the South China Morning Post.
> 
> Positions on both sides have been hardening since the government called off negotiations last week, citing the unlikelihood of a constructive outcome.
> 
> Beijing is eager to end the protests to avoid emboldening activists and others on the mainland seen as a threat to the Communist Party’s monopoly on power.
> 
> Zhang Xiaoming, director of the central government’s liaison office in Hong Kong, was quoted as telling local legislators Tuesday that the protest movement “is a serious social and political incident.”
> 
> Zhang said the movement challenged Beijing’s authority and had caused the city to suffer huge economic losses. It had “hurt the basis of Hong Kong’s rule of law, democratic development, social harmony, international image and its relations with the mainland,” he said.
> 
> Zhang urged an end to the protests as soon as possible.
> 
> But Lam, the student protester, said he was bracing for more tensions as the distrust of police grows.
> 
> “Now there is a feeling we are not just here to fool around or just to sit peacefully. We are feeling more prepared. We have become more united in building defenses,” Lam said.
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> *Image problem for police as video of officers beating protester is beamed around the world*
> PUBLISHED : Thursday, 16 October, 2014, 4:41am
> UPDATED : Thursday, 16 October, 2014, 9:02am
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 136381
> 
> Pan-democracy legislators protest for Ken Tsang at Legco Building. Photo: Sam Tsang
> Graphic video footage that appears to show seven police officers beating protester Ken Tsang Kin-chiu - whose hands were bound with plastic ties - have plunged a force already under severe pressure deeper into turmoil.
> 
> As the clamour for either a full public inquiry or the criminal prosecution of the officers in the video - which was beamed around the world - grows, it has emerged that at least one of the officers involved was a senior detective in the Organised Crime and Triad Bureau (OCTB).
> 
> Several sources have confirmed that OCTB Detective Chief Inspector Joe Wong Cho-shing can be seen in the video wearing a black vest bearing the initials OCTB over an open-necked white shirt.
> 
> It is understood that Wong - a high-flier thought to be in line for promotion to superintendent - was in command of a team put together for Occupy duties comprising officers from his own unit and Kwun Tong district's anti-triad squad.
> 
> One officer, who works with Wong said: "He was with guys from the Kwun Tong anti-triad squad due to the chaotic scenes and was in charge. They are in deep s*** but there's nothing we can do about it."
> 
> 
> View attachment 136382
> Ken Tsang takes the injury assessment at Ruttonjee Hospital in Wan Chai. Photo: AP
> 
> Wong, who has had a fairly high-profile role in the fight against human trafficking, can be seen in the video apparently acting as a lookout as the others appear to be take turns to kick and punch 39-year-old Civic Party member Tsang, as he lies on the ground in a darkened recess.
> 
> The police have confirmed officially that two of the seven officers were inspectors and five junior police officers. The _Post _understands that non of the officers have been suspended but have been reassigned to their units, away from Occupy duties.
> 
> The drama unfolded as police cleared out the Lung Wo Road area early yesterday morning, using pepper spray on protesters and arresting 45 people.
> 
> "From what we have seen, Tsang was already handcuffed with plastic tapes ... and taken to a dark corner and beaten up," Civic Party leader Alan Leong Kah-kit said, adding: "This use of power and police force is a blatant abuse of power, and from the look of it, the [officers] should at least be investigated on assault to [induce] actual bodily harm."
> 
> 
> View attachment 136383
> A pro-democracy protester cries as he holds a placard with photos of Ken Tsang during a rally in front of the police headquarters in Wan Chai. Photo: Reuters
> 
> A few hours after the video footage was aired, photos emerged of Tsang showing several bruises on his face.
> 
> Secretary for Security Lai Tung-kwok said that "the personnel concerned have been transferred away from the current positions".
> 
> A police statement said the footage showed officers "who are suspected of using excessive force". It added that the police had taken "immediate actions" and would investigate "impartially". The Complaints Against Police Office had received a complaint and would handle it.
> 
> One of Tsang's lawyers and Civic Party lawmaker Dennis Kwok said Tsang was taken under police escort to Ruttonjee Hospital. Kwok claimed his client had been "punched and slapped" while in detention.
> 
> Independent Police Complaints Council member Eric Cheung Tat-ming said the video footage provided prima-facie evidence that the officers may have committed criminal assault.
> 
> Occupy Central organisers condemned the officers. And secretary-general of the Federation of Students Alex Chow Yong-kong called the officers' actions unreasonable and an abuse of authority.
> 
> Human Rights Monitor's director Law Yuk-kai said the officers may have breached the Crimes (Torture) Ordinance, which carries life sentences for those found guilty of inflicting severe pain on another person while performing official duties.
> 
> Law said their observers, wearing identifying vests and helmets, had also been attacked by police. The force had not responded to the claim by last night.
> 
> In 2012, Tsang was forcibly removed after he protested at the swearing in ceremony for Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying. Tsang called for the end to one-party rule just moments before then-president Hu Jintao's address.
> 
> *Emily Tsang, Niall Fraser, Tony Cheung, Jennifer Ngo, Fanny Fung, Jeffie Lam, Lana Lam and Clifford Lo*


Thanks. I have been busy with my studies and haven't touch the remote since the reported gang-up beating by Hong Kong police.


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## Keel

Rent said:


> Thanks. I have been busy with my studies and haven't touch the remote since the reported gang-up beating by Hong Kong police.



The criminals should be very thankful for violating the laws in HK or they will be dead meat now in USA, Europe or in other democratic societies elsewhere 


This softie's time overdue for a breast feed 






The circus of clowns





This criminal badly needs a shave. He looks dirty and ugly 





More tents to make it looks crowdy 






Illegal damaging and handling of governmental properties.
Illegal assembley and setting up road blocks

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## Aepsilons

They're protesting? 








Rent said:


> The protest is still going?



From reports by Asahi Shimbun, the protest movement is composed of many factors, and camps:
1) Occupy Central
2) Hong Kong Federation of Students
3) Scholarlism Group
4) Pan Democracy Camp

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## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> They're protesting?



A good case study for spoiled kids who are rich by the look of their attires
They have excessive energy but not appropriately spent
Everyone wants to be a hero but only for a misguided course!


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## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> A good case study for spoiled kids who are rich by the look of their attires
> They have excessive energy but not appropriately spent
> Everyone wants to be a hero but only for a misguided course!



They even have phone chargers too. I guess solar powered ?


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

The solution to these rabble is simple.

1 get a fire hose.
2 pour non toxic dye in fire truck water cistern.
3 soak their fancy phones and Prada bags.
4 laugh, laugh and laugh as the students cry.

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## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> A good case study for spoiled kids who are rich by the look of their attires
> They have excessive energy but not appropriately spent
> Everyone wants to be a hero but only for a misguided course!



Reminds me of Occupy Tokyo 2012, mostly made up of college kids:

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## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> They even have phone chargers too. I guess solar powered ?



Solar or charging inside of cars parked nearby
Yes, they are well equipped and they seem to get offered of endless necessary supplies


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## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> Solar or charging inside of cars parked nearby
> Yes, they are well equipped and they seem to get offered of endless necessary supplies



Two years ago we had the same thing happen in Tokyo. Protesting around Ginza , traffic jams and unsightly , too. 

Give it time, eventually it will dissipate.

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## terranMarine

Ken Tsang took quite a beating from the cops

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## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Two years ago we had the same thing happen in Tokyo. Protesting around Ginza , traffic jams and unsightly , too.
> 
> Give it time, eventually it will dissipate.



Yup. Thats what I think initially
When their thrill die down things will return to normal
However it seems their background of supporting organization are more complicated than the one held in Japan



terranMarine said:


> Ken Tsang took quite a beating from the cops



Actually from what I saw on the net the HK police were very careless of not knowing so many journalists and cameras around

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## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> Yup. Thats what I think initially
> When their thrill die down things will return to normal
> However it seems their background of supporting organization are more complicated than the one held in Japan



It seems so. I think there are 4 camps that are part of this protest in Hong Kong. And its definitely very well organized.


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## terranMarine

Keel said:


> Actually from what I saw on the net the HK police were very careless of not knowing so many journalists and cameras around


 oh well can't be to bothered about that


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## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> It seems so. I think there are 4 camps that are part of this protest in Hong Kong. And its definitely very well organized.



The semi-open puzzle is how they are funded
There are at least 4 different visible factions each has its own leader and each goes on their own, so they are rather disintegrated until the next move from the police or the government which will give another prompt for unification 



terranMarine said:


> oh well can't be to bothered about that



Did he ask for a free tatoo and the HK police duely complied?

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## terranMarine

Keel said:


> Did he ask for a free tatoo and the HK police duely complied?


These cops are quite artistic if i say so myself, if done by the PLA it would be a masterpiece

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## Keel

terranMarine said:


> These cops are quite artistic if i say so myself, if done by the PLA it would be a masterpiece



This is what the PLA could do on his back for free


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## terranMarine

i have these tools too

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## tranquilium

HK's recent event really isn't anything new or awe inspiring from historical perspective. Throughout human history, land and sovereign borders has been changing continuously. When there are change, there will be people complaining, regardless whether it is good or bad in the long run.

I have debated with quite a few people on the Chinese forum on the one nation two system issue. My perspective is that the "two system" isn't really about giving preferential treatment. The core of Chinese political thoughts in the past six decades has always been "you do what is necessary" rather than a single ideology. The "one country two system" or the Tibet policies are really no different. Like it or not, HK does have a different mentality than the rest of China in 1997. It still does today, but the difference is getting smaller and smaller. Nonetheless, the 50 years period is an estimation on how long the mental transition to take place and how long to phase out the stubborn ones.

Of course, all these are broad perspective. As for the specific event, there are enough outside manipulations and they are not even remotely subtle.

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## Keel

Rent said:


> There are gangs and violence in this world. You fix one another takes its place. It is an ongoing battle for police. Sometimes mistake happens. We are all just human.
> 
> As for the case you presented. It was resolved. The officer was removed from his position. Protester made their point. They showed that unity is power.
> Ferguson police chief apologizes over black teen's shooting - Yahoo News


http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-police-chief-apologizes-over-black-teens-shooting-175705040.html

The Ferguson case is not isolated and the matter does not end there on removal of the policeman. After Ferguson, there were several similar cases involving racial brutality in NYC, St Louis and LA. 

The whole fiasco reflected a deep-rooted bigotry underlying in a democratic country which prides itself on democracy since your founding father established it. 

What the most horrifying is, when viewing from the points of foreigners, your country has been, by overt or covert actions, by active propaganda or through the most barbaric manner, trying to change the way of governance of another sovereignty country or to overthrow the foreign government by brute force once and for all. In order to achieve your selfish aims, you have created a terrifying legacy of human sufferings and bloodbath in the name of democracy.

If this is not a plain conduct of global terrorism and dictationship, what is? 

Also, I have pointed out to you that there are many democracies that have failed their people.



> I never said Democracy is God, but it is the only system present that helps protect the people in such within the rules of law and limits the power of government officials. Changes takes time. I am not trying to advocate democracy. I am just defending it. Government officials are not born with the abilities to read our minds. How would they know what we need without asking us or by us telling them? Changes don't happen immediately with protest. It take months or years. There is a process that takes place.



You are advocating democracy. Democracy is not the only system which "helps protect the people in such within the rules of law and limits the power of government officials." A benevolent government, in whatever kind of system, will do the job just as good or better like some emperors in our ancient dynasties. 

I am all along saying the change for a politcal system takes time and should be gradual and not be drastic. Thank goodness it seems you are convinced at last. 

So anyone who supports the "HK students in protests" is wrong because these bunch of "student-turned-criminals" want an immediate change in the system to democracy by one-man-one-vote for the election of HK's CE at all costs which include using road blockades, creating mayhems and causing great disruption of social livelihoods. 

See more photos here for yourselves
Hong Kong: Tear gas and clashes at democracy protest



> Please read factor effecting democracy in India in the link provided below. I am not that good with India's politics.
> Democracy in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



India is a miserable "democracy" in tatters  No one wants to copy that.

Thank you for you reply.

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## Keel

Nan Yang said:


> For a developing country, multi party democracy system is a hindrence.
> The road to development is already well proven.
> 
> 1. One party authoritarian government to ensure political stability
> 2. Mass manufacturing to absorb the poor masses
> 3. Low currency to drive export
> 4. Infrastructure building to facilitate manufacturing and export
> 
> Economies that did that.
> Hong Kong
> Taiwan
> South Korea
> Singapore
> Malaysia
> China



The biggest problem for a developing country in pursuing "Point 1. One party authoritarian government to ensure political stability" is the brutal enforcement of what so called "democratic" values on the government which kills the process of development before the country reaches political maturity for a multi-party system

But the paramount factor is if your country wants stability and prosperity and you dont have a strong defense system, you need to wholesomely adopt western values and comply to their directives. Otherwise sooner or later you will be in trouble


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## Fukuoka

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

Bearded Hong Kong protester tortured by officers in dark corner


Embedded media from this media site is no longer available








Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## Keel

TaiShang said:


> *Occupy Central mirrors geopolitical shift*
> By Ding Gang
> 
> 
> Shenzhen and Hong Kong are separated by a single narrow river. My first visit to Hong Kong was four years ago. Back then I took an 80 yuan ($13) shuttle bus from Shenzhen Airport and arrived in central Hong Kong two hours later, right at the place where the ongoing Occupy Central movement is underway.
> 
> I remember walking through the district, looking around street corners, and seeing in the stores many tourists from the Chinese mainland, just like me.
> 
> *How many of us can still remember hearing of vast numbers of mainlanders risking their lives to flee to Hong Kong just a few decades ago?
> 
> The Beijing-based Global People magazine interviewed Chen Bing'an, author of The Great Exodus, in its early September edition. Chen estimated that a total of more than 1 million people fled to Hong Kong after 1949.
> 
> He also cited other statistics: In 1978 the annual per capital income of farmers in Shenzhen was only 134 yuan ($21.8), while farmers living in Hong Kong's New Territories could earn as high as HK$13,000 ($1675.7).*
> 
> But that was exactly the year of transformation. The Third Plenary Session of the 11th CPC Central Committee was convened in December 1978.
> 
> Three decades later, UK scholar Martin Jacques wrote "And - with a little historical license - we should regard 1978 more properly as marking the beginning of the 21st century, the event that ushered in a new epoch, though barely anyone could possibly have realized it at the time" in an opinion piece published in the Guardian in May 2006. *A radical change rarely seen during the past 500 years kicked off in 1978.*
> 
> This is the historical background for the story of today's Hong Kong. *Hong Kong is no longer a showcase, a banner, or a fortress, but rather has become a Chinese city at a similar level with Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou or Chongqing. *
> 
> *Before 1997, the strategic position of Hong Kong was decided by its identity as a British colony and by the Cold War architecture. The Cold War also turned the city into a fortress. This position started to change with China's reform and opening-up policy.*
> 
> However, it should be noted that Cold War geopolitics wrought differences not only in systems, but also in people's mentality, understanding of history and views of democracy.
> 
> *The Occupy Central movement reflects Hongkongers' identity crisis and mental maladjustment, both brought about by geopolitical changes. That can also explain why Hong Kong has long been mired in the center of geopolitical controversy. *
> 
> Nowadays, *Chinese investors are looking around Asia and around the world for their next opportunity. Chinese tourists can also be found everywhere. They bring not merely money, but also their perspectives of the current global political and economic orders. Their outlook of global order derived from an oriental culture distinct from Western traditions.*
> 
> When news of Occupy Central first broke, one of my colleagues was interviewing a businessman from Central China's Hunan Province on a 3,800-meter-high plateau in Bolivia.
> 
> She told me that the Chinese firm had given the poverty-stricken village in the Andes Mountains an unprecedented opportunity for development. Now villagers there have smart phones.
> 
> Sharing China's development dividend has become a pervasive phenomenon in Asia. *The 2008 global financial crisis shook the foundation of global public trust in the US and Europe. Meanwhile, Asia has seen accelerated geopolitical changes, and China's image has become increasingly positive. This partly explains why some in the US and the UK are so excited about the Occupy Central movement in Hong Kong.*
> 
> In the past, the rise of great powers determined the direction of geopolitical order. *Occupy Central reminds us that the formation of a new geopolitical order requires not just the rebalancing of regional power structures, but also the restructuring of intellectual identities.* The later may takes longer time.
> 
> Nevertheless, *a re-configuration of the Asian order is now inevitable, although economic integration within the region has yet to be reflected at the level of political coordination. *
> 
> The influence of the old order will fade away on the historical stage, a trend that Hong Kong can in no way change.
> 
> _The author is a senior editor with People's Daily. He is now stationed in Brazil. dinggang@globaltimes.com.cn. Follow him on Twitter at @dinggangchina
> 
> @Edison Chen , @tranquilium , @Chinese-Dragon , @FairAndUnbiased , @terranMarine _



The author has lost sight of many things:

1. the national images of the West and America are still more dominant than that of China - albeit improving, in the world as a whole
2. Hongkongers want to distinguish themselves from the rest of Chinese cities and in the worst case scenario which is prevalent amongst the pan-democratic extremists, this camp wants to sever the linkage with China - at least politcally. Similar in line with the green camp of Taiwan, they want independence.
3. The author claims
" Nowadays, Chinese investors are looking around Asia and around the world for their next opportunity. Chinese tourists can also be found everywhere. They bring not merely money, but also their perspectives of the current global political and economic orders. Their outlook of global order derived from an oriental culture distinct from Western traditions." 
I am a bit pessimistic over that statement. I suspect the receivers of our "money" are all happy with "getting the money" and nothing more than that, at least for now. It will take a much longer time for our culture to take roots overseas if at all.

In all honesty, I dont think it is a well balanced article and rather it is written with a good deal of nacissism
For a person of his position, I am disappointed on the substance of the content. Sorry!


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## Keel

Fukuoka said:


> Bearded Hong Kong protester tortured by officers in dark corner
> View attachment 136622



As I said earlier, the criminal would have been lying dead in the government's morgue right now if he was in USA doing the same thing
He should be thankful for the HK police 



terranMarine said:


> i have these tools too



How effective are they?

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> This reminds me of the East Sea. China has been illegally occupying the East Sea. The should clear out so that fishermen may return to their work.
> Going back to sleep.



It wont change our sovereinty over the area. 
Good night!

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## terranMarine

Keel said:


> How effective are they?


Very in my experiences, it relieves ache against 風濕 , i've seen some use fire but the one i have only use vacuum pump. Bruises are temporary, will disappear after a few days

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## Aepsilons

terranMarine said:


> Very in my experiences, it relieves ache against 風濕 , i've seen some use fire but the one i have only use vacuum pump. Bruises are temporary, will disappear after a few days



Haha. Are you an acupuncturist ? Do you also do Chinese massage?



Fukuoka said:


> Bearded Hong Kong protester tortured by officers in dark corner
> View attachment 136622



Why the emphasis on the man's beard? Who cares? Was he maltreated purposely because of his beard?


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## terranMarine

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Haha. Are you an acupuncturist ? Do you also do Chinese massage?


 nope, why? you want me to rub your back?


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## Aepsilons

terranMarine said:


> nope, why? you want me to rub your back?



I heard Chinese massage technique is good for reducing tension. As per your offer..._emh houw dim ngho!_


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## terranMarine

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I heard Chinese massage technique is good for reducing tension. As per your offer..._emh houw dim ngho!_


 u sure?


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## Fukuoka

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Why the emphasis on the man's beard? Who cares? Was he maltreated purposely because of his beard?


Maybe because he looks so nice, not like the masked zionist Al Qaeda democrats or the zionist ukrainian nazis


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## Rent

Keel said:


> The Ferguson case is not isolated and the matter does not end there on removal of the policeman. After Ferguson, there were several similar cases involving racial brutality in NYC, St Louis and LA.
> 
> The whole fiasco reflected a deep-rooted bigotry underlying in a democratic country which prides itself on democracy since your founding father established it.
> 
> What the most horrifying is, when viewing from the points of foreigners, your country has been, by overt or covert actions, by active propaganda or through the most barbaric manner, trying to change the way of governance of another sovereignty country or to overthrow the foreign government by brute force once and for all. In order to achieve your selfish aims, you have created a terrifying legacy of human sufferings and bloodbath in the name of democracy.
> 
> If this is not a plain conduct of global terrorism and dictationship, what is?
> 
> Also, I have pointed out to you that there are many democracies that have failed their people.
> 
> 
> 
> You are advocating democracy. Democracy is not the only system which "helps protect the people in such within the rules of law and limits the power of government officials." A benevolent government, in whatever kind of system, will do the job just as good or better like some emperors in our ancient dynasties.
> 
> I am all along saying the change for a politcal system takes time and should be gradual and not be drastic. Thank goodness it seems you are convinced at last.
> 
> So anyone who supports the "HK students in protests" is wrong because these bunch of "student-turned-criminals" want an immediate change in the system to democracy by one-man-one-vote for the election of HK's CE at all costs which include using road blockades, creating mayhems and causing great disruption of social livelihoods.
> 
> See more photos here for yourselves
> Hong Kong: Tear gas and clashes at democracy protest
> 
> 
> 
> India is a miserable "democracy" in tatters  No one wants to copy that.
> 
> Thank you for you reply.


*Picking Death Over Eviction*

*By IAN JOHNSON
SEPTEMBER 8, 2013
*
Over the past five years, at least 39 farmers have resorted to this drastic form of protest. The figures, pieced together from Chinese news reports and human rights organizations, are a stark reminder of how China’s new wave of urbanization is at times a violent struggle between a powerful state and stubborn farmers — a top-down project that is different from the largely voluntary migration of farmers to cities during the 1980s, ’90s and 2000s.

Besides the self-immolations, farmers have killed themselves by other means to protest land expropriation. One Chinese nongovernmental organization, the Civil Rights and Livelihood Watch, reported that in addition to 6 self-immolations last year, 15 other farmers killed themselves. Others die when they refuse to leave their property: last year, a farmer in the southern city of Changsha who would not yield was run over by a steamroller, and last month, a 4-year-old girl in Fujian Province was struck and killed by a bulldozer while her family tried to stop an attempt to take their land.

Amid the turmoil, the government is debating new policies to promote urbanization. A plan to speed up urbanization was supposed to have been unveiled earlier this year, but it has been delayed over concerns that the move to cities is already stoking social tensions. New measures are also being contemplated to increase rural residents’ property rights.

Read full article here:

http://nytimes.com/2013/09/09/world/asia/as-chinese-farmers-fight-for-homes-suicide-is-ultimate-protest.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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## Keel

Rent said:


> *Picking Death Over Eviction*
> 
> *By IAN JOHNSON
> SEPTEMBER 8, 2013
> *
> Over the past five years, at least 39 farmers have resorted to this drastic form of protest. The figures, pieced together from Chinese news reports and human rights organizations, are a stark reminder of how China’s new wave of urbanization is at times a violent struggle between a powerful state and stubborn farmers — a top-down project that is different from the largely voluntary migration of farmers to cities during the 1980s, ’90s and 2000s.
> 
> Besides the self-immolations, farmers have killed themselves by other means to protest land expropriation. One Chinese nongovernmental organization, the Civil Rights and Livelihood Watch, reported that in addition to 6 self-immolations last year, 15 other farmers killed themselves. Others die when they refuse to leave their property: last year, a farmer in the southern city of Changsha who would not yield was run over by a steamroller, and last month, a 4-year-old girl in Fujian Province was struck and killed by a bulldozer while her family tried to stop an attempt to take their land.
> 
> Amid the turmoil, the government is debating new policies to promote urbanization. A plan to speed up urbanization was supposed to have been unveiled earlier this year, but it has been delayed over concerns that the move to cities is already stoking social tensions. New measures are also being contemplated to increase rural residents’ property rights.
> 
> Read full article here:
> 
> http://nytimes.com/2013/09/09/world/asia/as-chinese-farmers-fight-for-homes-suicide-is-ultimate-protest.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



I have no problem in admitting there are areas where we should get improvement. We are getting better on these scores by the day
If we have to compare with the "great" americans, you are just another black kettle
If you want to talk about Indian democracy, here you are:

India has highest number of suicides in the world: WHO
2012: India has highest child mortality rate in the world
Farmers' suicides in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BBC News - Indian farmers and suicide: How big is the problem?

Both USA and india claim themselves as the greatest country and the greatest democracy 

Do you know Monsanto - an democratic America company? What wrongs have it done to the world that have led to great misery to the farmers?

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## BoQ77

Keel said:


> As I said earlier, the criminal would have been lying dead in the government's morgue right now if he was in USA doing the same thing
> He should be thankful for the HK police
> 
> 
> 
> How effective are they?



So that's Chinese style democracy applied to HK? punishment without statement by court in dark corner by polices ?


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## Keel

terranMarine said:


> Very in my experiences, it relieves ache against 風濕 , i've seen some use fire but the one i have only use vacuum pump. Bruises are temporary, will disappear after a few days



I hesitate to have a try when I saw the bruising circular marks
Now next time I may try to have the treatment after an exhausting exercise.


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## Rent

Keel said:


> I have no problem in admitting there are areas where we should get improvement. We are getting better on these scores by the day
> If we have to compare with the "great" americans, you are just another black kettle
> If you want to talk about Indian democracy, here you are:
> 
> India has highest number of suicides in the world: WHO
> 2012: India has highest child mortality rate in the world
> Farmers' suicides in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> BBC News - Indian farmers and suicide: How big is the problem?
> 
> Both USA and india claim themselves as the greatest country and the greatest democracy
> 
> Do you know Monsanto - an democratic America company? What wrongs have it done to the world that have led to great misery to the farmers?


I believe most American are with you on your view of Monsanto.

Millions March Against Monsanto Calling for Boycott of GMOs » EcoWatch

Monsanto |  China

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## BoQ77

don't derail the topic. That's bruise is from hitting by officers not treatment.


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## Keel

Here the pic exposing Ken Tsang (the alleged victim) was seen throwing "mysterious liquid" onto the police before they pounced on him and the alleged beaten up

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## BoQ77

Keel said:


> Here the pic exposing Ken Tsang (the alleged victim) was seen throwing "mysterious liquid" onto the police before they pounced on him and the alleged beaten up



1. It's water
2. He was beaten after handcuffed


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## Aepsilons

Unbelievable. This is abuse of power and authority.


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## Keel

Rent said:


> I believe most American are with you on your view of Monsanto.
> 
> Millions March Against Monsanto Calling for Boycott of GMOs » EcoWatch
> 
> Monsanto |
> China


 
Great! We have same viewpoint on that.

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## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Unbelievable. This is abuse of power and authority.



On a scale on 1 (the least) to 10 on abuse of power blah blah blah  of the world's law enforcement agents,
HK's ranking, even with this accusation, should justiably hover themselves between 2 to 3.

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Very in my experiences, it relieves ache against 風濕 , i've seen some use fire but the one i have only use vacuum pump. Bruises are temporary, will disappear after a few days





Nihonjin1051 said:


> I heard Chinese massage technique is good for reducing tension. As per your offer..._emh houw dim ngho!_



I guess it is called Cuping Therapy in English.

The point is to sort of sucking out the toxins in the applied/ailing area.


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## Aepsilons

TaiShang said:


> _The point is to sort of sucking out the toxins _in the applied/ailing area.



Ah , yes. I've had that done before, feels real good. Relaxing, too. Ever had it done?


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## TaiShang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Ah , yes. I've had that done before, feels real good. Relaxing, too. Ever had it done?



Couple of times. But, mostly, needle acupuncture, especially for muscle pains out of sitting for long hours.


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## Rent

Keel said:


> The criminals should be very thankful for violating the laws in HK or they will be dead meat now in USA, Europe or in other democratic societies elsewhere



Dongzhou protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chinese security forces 'shoot Tibetan protester dead' | World news | The Guardian

Chinese students protest against government — History.com This Day in History — 4/18/1989

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## TaiShang

Rent said:


> Dongzhou protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Chinese security forces 'shoot Tibetan protester dead' | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Chinese students protest against government — History.com This Day in History — 4/18/1989



The *Watts Riots* (or *Watts Rebellion*)

*1992 Los Angeles riots*

*The Waco massacre*

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## Rent

TaiShang said:


> The *Watts Riots* (or *Watts Rebellion*)
> 
> *1992 Los Angeles riots*
> *The Waco massacre*


Rioters versus peaceful protesters?

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## TaiShang

Rent said:


> Rioters versus peaceful protesters?



*DO POLICE SHOOT BLACK MEN MORE OFTEN? STATISTICS SAY YES, ABSOLUTELY*

According to the FBI’s most recent accounts of “justifiable homicide,” in the seven years between 2005 and 2012, a white officer used deadly force against a black person almosttwo times every week, which Melissa Harris-Perry pointed out in her passionate and touching tribute to Brown. Of those black persons killed, nearly one in every five were under 21 years of age. For comparison, only 8.7 percent of white people killed by police officers were younger than 21.



Rent said:


> Rioters versus peaceful protesters?



They were peaceful. They got violent only after they themselves were victimized.

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## Rent

TaiShang said:


> *DO POLICE SHOOT BLACK MEN MORE OFTEN? STATISTICS SAY YES, ABSOLUTELY*
> 
> According to the FBI’s most recent accounts of “justifiable homicide,” in the seven years between 2005 and 2012, a white officer used deadly force against a black person almosttwo times every week, which Melissa Harris-Perry pointed out in her passionate and touching tribute to Brown. Of those black persons killed, nearly one in every five were under 21 years of age. For comparison, only 8.7 percent of white people killed by police officers were younger than 21.
> 
> 
> 
> They were peaceful. They got violent only after they themselves were victimized.


Many people (non-protesters) took advantage of the situation and started looting. That is why armed policemen were called in. However, I think we both made our point here. Violent acts only resolves things temporilary. The evil memories it leaves behind are permanent.

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## TaiShang

Rent said:


> Many people (non-protesters) took advantage of the situation and started looting. That is why armed policemen were called in. However, I think we both made our point here. Violent acts only resolves things temporilary. The evil memories it leaves behind are permanent.


 
People protested peacefully against *systemic police/state violence. *At one point, they respond, and hence you have numerous riots and massacres. 

HK protests (on both sides, protesters and Beijing's HK police) have been quite peaceful, when compared to the above examples.

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## Rent

TaiShang said:


> People protested peacefully against *systemic police/state violence. *At one point, they respond, and hence you have numerous riots and massacres.
> 
> HK protests (on both sides, protesters and Beijing's HK police) have been quite peaceful, when compared to the above examples.


I agreed. Generally speaking, I hope this is a good sign of paradigm shift in the way of thinking for us all.

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## BoQ77

Yes, it looks peaceful comparing to China mainland protests.
But it would be worse, when China central govt more and more put their feet into HK internal affair.
They are using more and more violence to peaceful protest and as natural response, they would get back the violent riots in the future.

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## BoQ77

*Hong Kong protests: Once respected, police now reviled by protesters*
Published on Oct 17, 2014 12:01 PM
0 38 0 0 PRINT EMAIL




A pro-democracy protester carrying a banner which reads "black cop" in front of a line of policemen off a road blocked by pro-democracy protesters at Mongkok shopping district in Hong Kong on early October 17, 2014. -- PHOTO: REUTERS
HONG KONG (AFP) - Hong Kong's police force have long prided themselves as being "Asia's finest".

But their hard-won reputation for honest and impartial policing is at risk from accusations of double standards and brutality following violent clashes with pro-democracy protesters, lawmakers and analysts say.

Video footage showing plainclothes officers beating a handcuffed protester as he lay on the ground created shockwaves on Wednesday, just over a fortnight after riot officers fired teargas for the first time in years at crowds of largely peaceful demonstrators.



Protesters have also accused the police of standing by during repeated attacks by pro-government thugs while using what what they describe as disproportionate violence against their ranks in a series of confrontations in recent days.

"Trust between the police and protesters, which was repaired after the use of tear gas, is gone now," Professor Surya Deva, a law professor at the City University of Hong Kong told AFP.

"The root cause of the violence is the government's use of the police force to deal with a political problem."

The city's police force was created in 1844 after the British took control of the territory from China three years earlier. By the 1960s it was notorious for accepting bribes and even colluding with the city's triad gangs.

Its image was gradually cleaned up following the creation of the the city's anti-corruption watchdog in 1974, which brought some of the most venal officers to book and pushed others into retirement.

Hong Kong's officers have since been lauded for their efficiency and honesty while many of their counterparts across Asia have earned reputations for brutality and graft.

The city remains a remarkably safe place to live with low levels of theft and violent crime, despite huge inequalities.

There were just 8.6 robberies per 100,000 citizens in 2012, compared with 243.7 for New York and 789.8 for Paris, according to government statistics.

But critics say the force's recent handling of ongoing democracy protests risks fatally undermining the good work done over recent years.

"We have to acknowledge that Hong Kong has always been seen as one of the safest and most secure large cities in the world. But it boils down to trust. If you don't trust the police force, more disturbances will flourish," Ms Claudia Mo, a lawmaker from the pro-democracy Civic Party, told AFP.

It was a Civic Party member, social worker Ken Tsang, who was beaten by the police in the video.

Distrust in law enforcement and the political elite is part of a wider malaise among the city's youth, who feel increasingly ignored and unrepresented.

Spiralling property prices, competition from wealthy mainlanders and the coziness of the city's politicians with big business leave many fretting about their future.

But anger has boiled over against officers, particularly after protester crowds were regularly attacked by masked thugs thought to have links to the triads.

Angry chants of "hak ging" - black cops - have now become commonplace among protesters whenever they are confronted by officers, a pun on the phrase "black societies" which is used to describe triad gangs.

To add to the police's embarrassment, some of the officers identified by the local media as being involved in the beating of Mr Tsang comes from the elite Organised Crime and Triad Bureau.

"The biggest thing the police have lost is citizens' trust in them," 19-year-old college student Joseph Man told AFP.

"They say they are professional but we can see they are starting to lose control of their minds."

The police have defended their actions as restrained in the face of increasingly hardcore protesters determined to take over new areas of an already disrupted city.

They have strongly rejected any suggestion of collusion with triad gangs and say they have suspended seven officers involved in the beating video pending an investigation.

Mr Sonny Lo, a political analyst at the Hong Kong Institute of Education, said the city's police force is trapped in a "political sandwich" between protesters, the government and an increasingly impatient public.

"These protests have to be solved politically. The police can't deal with politics, they are just an arm of the government," he said.

But Mr Lo warned continued confrontations could see China resort to sending in the People's Liberation Army.

"If police can't handle these protests more skillfully or more decisively I'm afraid that the worst case scenario - namely the requirement of the PLA to intervene - will not be impossible," he said.

- See more at: Hong Kong protests: Once respected, police now reviled by protesters


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## TaiShang

*HK police remove Occupy barricades in Mong Kok*
Xinhua, October 17, 2014
More than 100 Hong Kong police officers started removing barricades in Mong Kok, one of the main demonstration areas, Friday morning where Occupy movement participants had blockaded roads and streets from Sept. 28.

*From around 5:00 local time in the morning, the police started a surprise raid in the area when a handful of stay-in Occupy protesters were still sleeping. The police removed tents, bamboo and other makeshift barricades before the protesters could make any resistance.*

The Occupy area in Mong Kok is across the Victoria Harbor from the main demonstration areas near the region's government headquarters in Admiralty and commercial area in Causeway Bay.

*A female Senior Superintendent of Police said that the police has received a lot of complaints in the area that the Occupy barricades had brought more dangers to local residents and obstructed emergency access.*

The police strongly condemn such irresponsible behaviors, and decide to remove those barricades in the streets to achieve a limited resumption of traffic and reduce citizen's resentment, the officer said.

*As of 7:00, most of the tents and steel fences set by Occupy protesters in Mong Kok had been removed and all subway exits of Mong Kok station resumed normal operation.*

Thousands of protesters, most of which are students, joined the Occupy Central movement to express their discontent with a framework set by China's top legislature on electing the region's next leader through universal suffrage.

According to Hong Kong Basic Law and top legislature's decisions, more than five million Hong Kong voters could have a say to who will become the Chief Executive in 2017 by the "one man, one vote" election, *which had never been realized under the British colonial rule.*

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> Regarding the American boycott on Monsanto, rumors has it that this boycott was orchestrated by China.



I wish your statement is true that we now have the power to manipulate America.
There are also similar movements like in S America, India etc. Is China orchestrating all these?

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## Shishike

Kolaps said:


> Why mainland journalist unable to win HK young people heart?
> 
> Instead they prefer what pro-democracy controlled media say?


'coz US cash smells gooooooooooooood!

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> Who knows? Rumors are rumors.



You will lost all your credibility spreading too much rumours, or you dont care

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> I am retired! This is only for my entertainment. Credibility are for real life not in forums.



I think the forum admin should open a category for members identical with your attributes. Thanks for being frank to the forum.

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## Keel

ClassicMan said:


> Don't take things too serious in here.



Of course but for meaningful discussions we should try to maintain the best element of truth That is for mutual respect or I wont comment at all or to alert the readers about statements which are meant for jokes etc

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## Nan Yang

Rent said:


> Thank you for letting me know your view @Nan Yang. If people are happy with their government then there is no need for change.



Yes that is true for Hong Kong.

However there will always be people that uses the freedom in Hong Kong to manipulate popular opinion. And there are always young ignorant people available to be manipulated. It is easy to shout freedom. Its cut and dry. Who do not want freedom.

Using an incident, they start with demonstrations. Then they will always try to provoke the police. And when Police reply with any force they will use these incidents to further manipulate public opinion in their favor. The more violence they provoke, the more they can manipulate public opinion. Violence begets violence. Hate begets hate. Public becomes polarized.

In the end, it’s not about democracy or about the interest of the country. It’s about regime change. Each side will topple the existing government. The interest of the country or the economy is thrown out off the window. Each side will blame the other.

This is what happen in Thailand and Taiwan. I see Hong Kong going down this path.

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## vietnamese_sausage

Rent said:


> There are gangs and violence in this world. You fix one another takes its place. It is an ongoing battle for police. Sometimes mistake happens. We are all just human.
> 
> As for the case you presented. It was resolved. The officer was removed from his position. Protester made their point. They showed that unity is power.
> Ferguson police chief apologizes over black teen's shooting - Yahoo News
> 
> I never said Democracy is God, but it is the only system present that helps protect the people in such within the rules of law and limits the power of government officials. Changes takes time. I am not trying to advocate democracy. I am just defending it. Government officials are not born with the abilities to read our minds. How would they know what we need without asking us or by us telling them? Changes don't happen immediately with protest. It take months or years. There is a process that takes place.
> 
> Please read factor effecting democracy in India in the link provided below. I am not that good with India's politics.
> Democracy in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I think I will stop here. I don't want us to argue over this. Please feel free to ask me anything you like.
> 
> Thank you for taking your time out to reply.
> 
> Best Regards.



bro, i see too often in western countries where something is done and than an apology is issued out. everything is fine again. an apology are just words. the black teen is still dead. killing someone, making racist comments on TV is something i do not accept as apology. you should not either.

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## vietnamese_sausage

Rent said:


> I believe most American are with you on your view of Monsanto.
> 
> Millions March Against Monsanto Calling for Boycott of GMOs » EcoWatch
> 
> Monsanto |
> China


gmo will still be prevalent in society. Monsanto stock is $110/share. ten million can march against big corporations but will fail.


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## 来自未来

nvKyleBrown said:


> As I understand it, the core complaint is that the mainland getting richer has led to mainlanders moving into/visiting HK. The new money coming into town causes upward pressure on rent, and downward pressure on wages. So, the HK locals are hoping to restrict the flow somewhat. What exactly they are proposing seems a bit vague - at the moment it's just "let us pick our own leaders (so they can restrict the flow)". But, my understanding could be flawed.


Because the rapid development of the mainland kills their self-confidence.

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## Rent

vietnamese_sausage said:


> bro, i see too often in western countries where something is done and than an apology is issued out. everything is fine again. an apology are just words. the black teen is still dead. killing someone, making racist comments on TV is something i do not accept as apology. you should not either.


Wilson has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation.


vietnamese_sausage said:


> gmo will still be prevalent in society. Monsanto stock is $110/share. ten million can march against big corporations but will fail.


They produce the product. It is your money, your craving. You choose how and where to spend your money.

I must say Monsanto is not good in the aspect of spin control.

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## TaiShang

*Tons of trash removed by the police in HK*

Hong Kong police remove blockades erected by Occupy Central students at a protest site in the bustling area of Mong Kok, Hong Kong on October 17, 2014. *From around 5:00 in the morning, more than 100 Hong Kong police officers started a surprise raid in the area when a handful of stay-in Occupy protesters were still sleeping. * The police removed tents, bamboo and other makeshift barricades before the protesters could make any resistance. [Photo: China News Service/ Tan Daming]

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## Fukuoka

Keel said:


>



Why exactly we don't see his face?



TaiShang said:


> The *Watts Riots* (or *Watts Rebellion*)
> 
> *1992 Los Angeles riots*
> *The Waco massacre*


Wasn't you who say africans are savages?



Rent said:


> Rioters versus peaceful protesters?


The peaceful protests turned violent because of the repression of your regime
HK protesters are not fed up against the police who beat a man to a pulp


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## jkroo

Illegal protest go on, they are practising ‘democracy’. Learn something from US cops, HK police.

The protestors had damaged the image of legal society of HK though cops try to maintain it.

What I hate them is that they violated other people's rights when they are asking for rights. Ridiculous! Who give them the right? It turn to be an anti-society action. 

The protestors will be losers at last as far as I can see.

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## Fukuoka

*Hong Kong Protest Pro Democracy Protesters Clash With Pro Government Supporters on Streets *


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## Aepsilons

The guy in 0:25 looks like Bruce Lee.


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## Fukuoka

*Hong Kong protest 2014: how young people are leading the protests*





Old clashes between pro and anti-democracy (3 oct)

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## Aepsilons

Fukuoka said:


> *Hong Kong protest 2014: how young people are leading the protests*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old clashes between pro and anti-democracy (3 oct)



The spirit of Hong Kong speaks....


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## Fukuoka

Police beating students with clubs

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## Aepsilons

Fukuoka said:


> Police beating students with clubs



Why did they do this? Seems to me the protesters are very organized. Haven't even seen instances of looting or rioting.


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## Nan Yang

The biggest winner is the umbrella manufacturers.

*Top Chinese umbrella exporter files for Hong Kong IPO as city protests continue*

China's biggest umbrella exporter has filed for an initial public offering in Hong Kong as the city enters a third week of pro-democracy protest dubbed the "umbrella revolution" after demonstrators used the devices as shields against pepper spray.

Jicheng Umbrella Holdings Ltd is raising funds

 to build a new factory and expand its output, according to its preliminary IPO prospectus filed late on Wednesday. The company, based in Jinjiang in the southern Fujian Province, didn't disclose the size of the planned deal.

Top Chinese umbrella exporter files for Hong Kong IPO as city protests continue| Reuters

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## ShahidT

VICE is infiltrated by Zionists. know your enemy.






but, damn. Isobel Yeung

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## SRBM2

VICE is a fox news branch and is in some ways very subtile because those CIA scum noticed that US losses the monopoly on mainstream media so they need to grow always new mainstream media and cover them as "independent" and "unbiased".

LIES News is the worst crap.

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## Keel

Nan Yang said:


> The biggest winner is the umbrella manufacturers.
> 
> *Top Chinese umbrella exporter files for Hong Kong IPO as city protests continue*
> 
> China's biggest umbrella exporter has filed for an initial public offering in Hong Kong as the city enters a third week of pro-democracy protest dubbed the "umbrella revolution" after demonstrators used the devices as shields against pepper spray.
> 
> Jicheng Umbrella Holdings Ltd is raising funds
> 
> to build a new factory and expand its output, according to its preliminary IPO prospectus filed late on Wednesday. The company, based in Jinjiang in the southern Fujian Province, didn't disclose the size of the planned deal.
> 
> Top Chinese umbrella exporter files for Hong Kong IPO as city protests continue| Reuters



I wonder how they can sustain business after the upheavals unless they are promoting an extension of similar events into other countries.

ps: Forget about getting it extended inside of China. The Mainland government has zero tolerance towards this madness

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## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The spirit of Hong Kong speaks....



True Spirit of HK speaks here:

*Many voices call for end to HK protest*
*Updated: 2014-10-06 14:10*
*By Bian Jibu in New York(China Daily USA)*




Print



Mail



Large Medium Small 



0


As cracks widened among protesters in Hong Kong, government and community leaders called on the crowds to abandon their blockades of major roads and government buildings for the sake of personal safety and the greater good of the public.

Since Sept 28, when the blockades began, 165 people have been injured.

Thirty people were arrested in connection with recent clashes in the Mongkok area, and 21 police officers have been injured, according to government figures.

The Hong Kong government, in a statement released earlier on Sunday, renewed its push for reopening the roadways and pedestrian access to the government offices before Monday. It also called upon protesters to reopen roads in the Admiralty district to "alleviate the impact on traffic".

A government spokesperson also said the "door to dialogue is always open" for the Hong Kong Federation of Students, one of the key initiators of the protest. Senior officials are ready to reconnect with the students to prepare for dialogue, a statement read.

The student group's secretary-general, Alex Chow, announced at 9:15 pm that the group is preparing to talk to the government, but he said the occupation activities would continue during the talks.

Meanwhile, the government announced that 32 secondary schools would resume classes on Monday.

The Transport Department said in a press briefing that if barricades on one of the two major roads in Admiralty were cleared, 70 bus routes would resume service.

Across the Americas, Chinese business leaders, community leaders and professionals have expressed their support for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region government and called on young demonstrators to end their protests.

Fred Teng, chairman of the Hong Kong Association of New York, said the Hong Kong police and Hong Kong government have exercised the utmost professionalism and cool-headedness.

"The organizers of this 'Occupy Central' movement underestimated the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong people," Teng said. "The Hong Kong government, from Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying on down, acted very professionally and seriously dealing with this matter every step of the way."

"A few months ago, 1.5 million Hong Kong residents signed petitions against this movement, and wanted the universal suffrage to go forward for 2017," Teng said. "The organizers also underestimated local residents' negative reaction to the disruptions of their normal life."

Teng said as the Occupy Central movement subsides, he hopes Hong Kong can start the second stage of the consultation regarding the constitutional development regarding the election of the chief executive in 2017.

He said fortunately, most investors were not very concerned about this protest, adding that the Hang Send Index only dropped 5 percent at the lowest point and already started to recover on Oct 3.

"Overall, business people and investors have a lot of confidence in Hong Kong. And the actions of the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police did not disappoint them," Teng said.

On Sunday the Committee to Promote the Unification of China- San Francisco Bay Area Chapter held a discussion on the anti-Occupy Central movement in San Francisco's Chinatown.

Choi Man-yiu, vice-president of the committee, said the occupy movement was "totally wrong", asprotestors are using un-democratic means to blindly pursue their so-called universal suffrage and sacrificing others' interests to gain their own.

"The result of the protest was not democracy, but public anger," Choi said. "They didn't put Hong Kong's interests first and that's not real democracy."

Choi said the achievements made in Hong Kong over the past 10 years have been made possible by the hard work of the Hong Kong people, which was not understood and appreciated by young protesters.

"We support the government to maintain order in accordance with laws and suggest the protesters calm down and resume peace talks with the government," Choi said.

The committee released a statement on Sept 28, saying that the organization strongly opposes the protests in Hong Kong and protesters who seriously damage the public order and others' welfare.

The Coordination Council of Chinese-American Associations (CCCAA), an organization which serves the Chinese-American community in the greater Washington area, also released an open letter to people in Hong Kong on Oct 2, urging Hong Kong residents to boycott Occupy Central in order to resume normal life and work.

It praised China's central government for strictly keeping its "One Country, Two Systems" pledge and in making historic progress in Hong Kong's democracy.

"The 28 governors during the British rule were all appointed by the British government and Hong Kong didn't even have a symbolic democracy," the letter pointed out. The letter also asserted that the organizers of the protests carry an ulterior motive that will undermine Hong Kong stability and prosperity.

Qiao Fengxiang, a professor at Texas Southern University and president of the US-China Friendship Association in Houston who went to Hong Kong in 1997 prior to Hong Kong's returning to China, said: "I know that when under the British rule, Hong Kong people didn't have any say in politics. After it returned to China, the overall political environment has been relaxed. It should be governed as stipulated by the National Emblem of China."

The students should not take to the streets because it affects the normal order and people's order, Qiao said, and it's nice that Hong Kong police did not take any drastic measures.

SeverinoCabral, chairman of the Brazilian Institute for Chinese and Asia Pacific Studies, said Hong Kong did not enjoy the right of elections during the governance by the United Kingdom and it was the Chinese government that allowed the people in Hong Kong to elect their governors, which is a gesture of kindness and tolerance.

"Themovement is over claim because Hong Kong is a part of China'ssovereignty, which is the bottom line and should not be challenged. Countries like China and Brazil should be strong about such issues becausedemocracy is nothing if there is no complete sovereignty," said Carbal.

Dr George Koo, an international business consultant and a member of the Committee of 100,believed the HKSAR government has been careful and dealing with the movement with kid gloves.

Under the principles of "One Country, Two Systems", Koo said, Beijing should not interfere but allow the SAR administration to deal with situation. "An exception to this principle would be if the occupy movement threatened to secede from China and/or if it can be shown there is a presence of foreign agitation and interference in the movement," Koo said.

Asked about his suggestion for the best solution to end this standoff, Koo said the HK government should merely standby and monitor the protest so long as the movement remains peaceful and orderly.

"When protesters become disorderly and break the law, they should be dealt with firmly according to the law, just as they would be in the United States," Koo said.


















*Back To Work Government employees arrive to work as they walk along an area occupied by protesters outside of the government headquarters building in Hong Kong on Monday. Some protesters left the Mong Kok area of the city. Photo By Carlos Barria / Reuters*

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## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> True Spirit of HK speaks here:
> 
> *Many voices call for end to HK protest*
> *Updated: 2014-10-06 14:10*
> *By Bian Jibu in New York(China Daily USA)*
> 
> 
> 
> Print
> 
> 
> 
> Mail
> 
> 
> 
> Large Medium Small
> 
> 
> 0
> 
> 
> As cracks widened among protesters in Hong Kong, government and community leaders called on the crowds to abandon their blockades of major roads and government buildings for the sake of personal safety and the greater good of the public.
> 
> Since Sept 28, when the blockades began, 165 people have been injured.
> 
> Thirty people were arrested in connection with recent clashes in the Mongkok area, and 21 police officers have been injured, according to government figures.
> 
> The Hong Kong government, in a statement released earlier on Sunday, renewed its push for reopening the roadways and pedestrian access to the government offices before Monday. It also called upon protesters to reopen roads in the Admiralty district to "alleviate the impact on traffic".
> 
> A government spokesperson also said the "door to dialogue is always open" for the Hong Kong Federation of Students, one of the key initiators of the protest. Senior officials are ready to reconnect with the students to prepare for dialogue, a statement read.
> 
> The student group's secretary-general, Alex Chow, announced at 9:15 pm that the group is preparing to talk to the government, but he said the occupation activities would continue during the talks.
> 
> Meanwhile, the government announced that 32 secondary schools would resume classes on Monday.
> 
> The Transport Department said in a press briefing that if barricades on one of the two major roads in Admiralty were cleared, 70 bus routes would resume service.
> 
> Across the Americas, Chinese business leaders, community leaders and professionals have expressed their support for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region government and called on young demonstrators to end their protests.
> 
> Fred Teng, chairman of the Hong Kong Association of New York, said the Hong Kong police and Hong Kong government have exercised the utmost professionalism and cool-headedness.
> 
> "The organizers of this 'Occupy Central' movement underestimated the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong people," Teng said. "The Hong Kong government, from Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying on down, acted very professionally and seriously dealing with this matter every step of the way."
> 
> "A few months ago, 1.5 million Hong Kong residents signed petitions against this movement, and wanted the universal suffrage to go forward for 2017," Teng said. "The organizers also underestimated local residents' negative reaction to the disruptions of their normal life."
> 
> Teng said as the Occupy Central movement subsides, he hopes Hong Kong can start the second stage of the consultation regarding the constitutional development regarding the election of the chief executive in 2017.
> 
> He said fortunately, most investors were not very concerned about this protest, adding that the Hang Send Index only dropped 5 percent at the lowest point and already started to recover on Oct 3.
> 
> "Overall, business people and investors have a lot of confidence in Hong Kong. And the actions of the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police did not disappoint them," Teng said.
> 
> On Sunday the Committee to Promote the Unification of China- San Francisco Bay Area Chapter held a discussion on the anti-Occupy Central movement in San Francisco's Chinatown.
> 
> Choi Man-yiu, vice-president of the committee, said the occupy movement was "totally wrong", asprotestors are using un-democratic means to blindly pursue their so-called universal suffrage and sacrificing others' interests to gain their own.
> 
> "The result of the protest was not democracy, but public anger," Choi said. "They didn't put Hong Kong's interests first and that's not real democracy."
> 
> Choi said the achievements made in Hong Kong over the past 10 years have been made possible by the hard work of the Hong Kong people, which was not understood and appreciated by young protesters.
> 
> "We support the government to maintain order in accordance with laws and suggest the protesters calm down and resume peace talks with the government," Choi said.
> 
> The committee released a statement on Sept 28, saying that the organization strongly opposes the protests in Hong Kong and protesters who seriously damage the public order and others' welfare.
> 
> The Coordination Council of Chinese-American Associations (CCCAA), an organization which serves the Chinese-American community in the greater Washington area, also released an open letter to people in Hong Kong on Oct 2, urging Hong Kong residents to boycott Occupy Central in order to resume normal life and work.
> 
> It praised China's central government for strictly keeping its "One Country, Two Systems" pledge and in making historic progress in Hong Kong's democracy.
> 
> "The 28 governors during the British rule were all appointed by the British government and Hong Kong didn't even have a symbolic democracy," the letter pointed out. The letter also asserted that the organizers of the protests carry an ulterior motive that will undermine Hong Kong stability and prosperity.
> 
> Qiao Fengxiang, a professor at Texas Southern University and president of the US-China Friendship Association in Houston who went to Hong Kong in 1997 prior to Hong Kong's returning to China, said: "I know that when under the British rule, Hong Kong people didn't have any say in politics. After it returned to China, the overall political environment has been relaxed. It should be governed as stipulated by the National Emblem of China."
> 
> The students should not take to the streets because it affects the normal order and people's order, Qiao said, and it's nice that Hong Kong police did not take any drastic measures.
> 
> SeverinoCabral, chairman of the Brazilian Institute for Chinese and Asia Pacific Studies, said Hong Kong did not enjoy the right of elections during the governance by the United Kingdom and it was the Chinese government that allowed the people in Hong Kong to elect their governors, which is a gesture of kindness and tolerance.
> 
> "Themovement is over claim because Hong Kong is a part of China'ssovereignty, which is the bottom line and should not be challenged. Countries like China and Brazil should be strong about such issues becausedemocracy is nothing if there is no complete sovereignty," said Carbal.
> 
> Dr George Koo, an international business consultant and a member of the Committee of 100,believed the HKSAR government has been careful and dealing with the movement with kid gloves.
> 
> Under the principles of "One Country, Two Systems", Koo said, Beijing should not interfere but allow the SAR administration to deal with situation. "An exception to this principle would be if the occupy movement threatened to secede from China and/or if it can be shown there is a presence of foreign agitation and interference in the movement," Koo said.
> 
> Asked about his suggestion for the best solution to end this standoff, Koo said the HK government should merely standby and monitor the protest so long as the movement remains peaceful and orderly.
> 
> "When protesters become disorderly and break the law, they should be dealt with firmly according to the law, just as they would be in the United States," Koo said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Back To Work Government employees arrive to work as they walk along an area occupied by protesters outside of the government headquarters building in Hong Kong on Monday. Some protesters left the Mong Kok area of the city. Photo By Carlos Barria / Reuters*




Hong Kong is multifaceted; some are pro-CPC, some are pro-Democracy. Just saying and realizing that there are segments in Hong Kong that want to be voiced. That's all.


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## Keel

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hong Kong is multifaceted; some are pro-CPC, some are pro-Democracy. Just saying and realizing that there are segments in Hong Kong that want to be voiced. That's all.



But not "spirit" which means a lot more than "voices"
The protesters are confirming themselves as criminals as the mayhems enter into the 4th week which have further destroyed the business and income of the vast majority of law abiding civilians

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## Aepsilons

Keel said:


> But not "spirit" which means a lot more than "voices"
> The protesters are confirming themselves as criminals as the mayhems enter into the 4th week which have further destroyed the business and income of the vast majority of law abiding civilians



Let's hope that this will be resolved soon.

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## Huan

Hong Kong police are really too soft. They need to learn more from American police. Who the hell train these HK officers to be so passive?

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## Aepsilons

Huan said:


> Hong Kong police are really too soft. They need to learn more from American police. Who the hell train these HK officers to be so passive?



At the same time the Hong Kong demonstrators are quite organized, peaceful. They don't even have proclivity to riot or loot. Unlike some American urban communities, which have this predisposition. Ergo, Ferguson , Chicago, LA, Atlanta et a...

Why would Hong Kong Police use excessive force ? Wouldn't that only incite the mob mentality ? God forbid, a stampede can occur, and there would be hundreds that would die.


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## GR!FF!N

HONG KONG — The police clashed with hundreds of pro-democracy protesters in the densely populated Mong Kok neighborhood early Sunday in the second straight day of violence after demonstrators recaptured blocks of city streets from the police.

More than 100 police officers — many with shields, batons and helmets — faced off against an even greater number of demonstrators and their supporters on Nathan Road, one of Hong Kong’s busiest shopping streets. The police turned a stretch of the southbound lanes of the thoroughfare into a parking lot for their vans and buses.

Officers advanced on the barricades just after midnight. At least three people were hurt, the police said in a statement, which also said that a police officer suffered a shoulder injury. Members of a first-aid station set up by protesters said several protesters were hurt.


The clashes erupted after demonstrators, who had been staging a sit-in in the area around the intersection for almost three weeks, were largely cleared out early Friday in a swift police operation. That backfired that evening and early Saturday, when thousands of demonstrators outnumbered the police, leading the officers to withdraw after clashes that the police say injured 15 officers and 26 protesters. The Mong Kok neighborhood is one of three in Hong Kong that for the past three weeks has been the site of demonstrations by people demanding democratic elections to choose Hong Kong’s top leader, the chief executive.

Photo





A student protester peers out from his tent in the Mong Kok neighborhood of Hong Kong. Credit Wally Santana/Associated Press
The clash on Sunday morning followed an announcement on Saturday by Hong Kong’s government that it would hold talks with student protest leaders on Tuesday, the start of a formal dialogue that could ease tensions.

Separately, in his first public comment since the start of the protests, Hong Kong’s police commissioner, Andy Tsang, condemned “radical” protesters for charging the police line and said they had broken the law by gathering in Mong Kok on Friday.

“I have a message from the bottom of my heart: These illegal acts are hurting Hong Kong, hurting our society,” he told reporters on Saturday. He did not answer questions.

Hong Kong returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997 after more than 150 years of British rule. As part of the transfer agreement, the territory was to be allowed to run its own domestic affairs for half a century. Hong Kong residents enjoy freedom of speech, assembly and religion, enforced by an independent judiciary.

Photo





Protesters guard a makeshift barricade. Credit Wally Santana/Associated Press
But Beijing has final say over any changes to Hong Kong’s mini-constitution. The protests were set off when China’s legislature, run by the Communist Party, created guidelines for the 2017 elections that effectively ensured that only candidates approved by Beijing would appear on the ballot for chief executive.

For more than a year, organizers of a movement called Occupy Central With Love and Peace had warned the government that such restrictions, which do not meet international standards for free and fair elections, would lead to the sit-in protests. Organizers said they were prepared to be arrested, citing the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Henry David Thoreau as examples in their civil disobedience actions.

In Mong Kok, as the protests entered their fourth week, a group of demonstrators said that for them, the rules had changed.

Mars Ng, Dominic Yuen and Kenny Yeung, all criminology students, stood near the barricades at the corner of Nathan Road and Argyle Street. All three were wearing hard hats to protect themselves against police batons. “For the revolution to be a success it’s important not to get hurt and not to get arrested,” said Mr. Yeung, 25, who said their plan was to run away if the police started arresting demonstrators, describing their protests as a “guerrilla” movement.

“We want everyone to come back to the scene,” he said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/w...-offer-fresh-talks-with-protesters-.html?_r=0

Video

BBC News - Hong Kong protests: Clashes at Mong Kok site


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## Beidou2020

I fully blame the Chinese government for this.

They allowed Western NGO's (CIA organisations) to operate in Chinese territory and allowed it to spread like a cancer and now they have to pay the price for their stupidity.

I hope this protest goes violent and spreads like a cancer not just all over Hong Kong but to Mainland China aswell.
Maybe then the Chinese government will realise all Western NGO's should be banned from China.

Chinese government was stupid enough to allow these CIA run organisations to enter China, now face the consequences of stupid decisions.

They made their own bed, now sleep in it.

Chinese government is a very naive government. They think being nice will make others nice to you. They don't realise that being nice is a sign of weakness to enemies.

Same goes for that stupid no-first-use nuclear policy. Believe me, that stupid policy will come back to bite them on the a$$ one day.

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## key-CN

Etc. These kids make trouble End,Their parents are unemployed.Together begging for a living.I think they do not want to go to school.Maybe they want to Rangers？

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## bobsm

Beidou2020 said:


> I fully blame the Chinese government for this.
> 
> They allowed Western NGO's (CIA organisations) to operate in Chinese territory and allowed it to spread like a cancer and now they have to pay the price for their stupidity.
> 
> I hope this protest goes violent and spreads like a cancer not just all over Hong Kong but to Mainland China aswell.
> Maybe then the Chinese government will realise all Western NGO's should be banned from China.
> 
> Chinese government was stupid enough to allow these CIA run organisations to enter China, now face the consequences of stupid decisions.
> 
> They made their own bed, now sleep in it.
> 
> Chinese government is a very naive government. They think being nice will make others nice to you. They don't realise that being nice is a sign of weakness to enemies.
> 
> Same goes for that stupid no-first-use nuclear policy. Believe me, that stupid policy will come back to bite them on the a$$ one day.



I actually think the Chinese govt is quite wise. The plan of letting their local people take care of their own mess is a good one. They know that time is on their side. The longer the sit-in lasts, the more the Hong Kong businesses will suffer, and the less the "silent" majority will remain tolerent and silent. You see, occupy's only chance of salvaging this losing chess match, is to provoke the Chinese military, and hopefully receive the sanctions they wanted from the west.

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## TheMatador

I was actually in Mongkok fighting the occupy with my bare hands. Not just talking on PDF. The occupy is a seriously funded and organized terrorist movement. Police are not really enough. I fully support PLA rolling in with armored personnel carriers and mowing down the occupy with machine guns. I want to see Nathan Road awash in a sea of red! At least half of HK population support occupy. A general purge of traitors is called for. I fear the HK government lacks the balls to crack down hard.


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## Nan Yang

TheMatador said:


> I was actually in Mongkok fighting the occupy with my bare hands. Not just talking on PDF. The occupy is a seriously funded and organized terrorist movement. Police are not really enough. I fully support PLA rolling in with armored personnel carriers and mowing down the occupy with machine guns. I want to see Nathan Road awash in a sea of red! At least half of HK population support occupy. A general purge of traitors is called for. I fear the HK government lacks the balls to crack down hard.



This is exactly what the occupiers protesters wants.

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## Nan Yang

*Occupy Central: Holding Hong Kong’s 'Silent Majority' Hostage*

The majority of Hongkongers are against the protests, which pose a serious threat to the rule of law and social stability.

According to recent polls conducted by University of Hong Kong, as of October 2014, 54 percent of the interviewees in Hong Kong opposed “Occupy Central.” By contrast, only 27 percent of Hongkongers support this movement.

Interestingly, those who oppose the Occupy Central movement (including groups like “Silent Majority for Hong Kong”) have been quickly labeled as “pro-Beijing” by the “pan-democratic” camp in Hong Kong as well as the West. In general, the term “pro-Beijing” is used to differentiate these groups from others who identify as “pro-democratic” or “pan-democratic.” But this begs the question: Does being “pro-Beijing” naturally equate to a moral and legal “anti-democratic” stance? After all, the Occupy supporters are in the minority. Does the West believe that the minority’s violation of the rule of law and their destruction of social stability is a genuinely pure democracy? Should the Oxford Dictionary revise its definition of “democracy” to include the rule of the minority?

More....
Occupy Central: Holding Hong Kong’s ‘Silent Majority’ Hostage | The Diplomat

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## TaiShang

bobsm said:


> I actually think the Chinese govt is quite wise. The plan of letting their local people take care of their own mess is a good one. They know that time is on their side. The longer the sit-in lasts, the more the Hong Kong businesses will suffer, and the less the "silent" majority will remain tolerent and silent. You see, occupy's only chance of salvaging this losing chess match, is to provoke the Chinese military, and hopefully receive the sanctions they wanted from the west.



Exactly. Beijing has been quite wise to keep the issue as a local one, not important enough for a response by the central government, of which HK is a part. So the discourse now is:

1 . Jealousy of a city which once enjoyed an unproportional weight in China;s economic sphere.
2 . Young people's lack of employment opportunity which translates into frustration.
3 . The rest of China's explosive growth, which sort of trashes HK's narration of "Whoa, we are old British slaves of a new democracy, we are a superior race." 

The protesters, in the end, will rot in the street as their ranks cracks, internal fight intensifies, and the funding dries down. 

Beijing has money, patience and complete strategic hold on HK. They simply cannot get free from the clutches of the PLA dragon. So, why worry? Just use the incident as an opportunity to make fun of them, ridicule them, at times make them cry like bi***s sending a few cops with batons and Dr. Pepper, and let some Chinese business such as the aforementioned umbrella company grow and file for an IPO in HK!

Who would not call this justice from Heavens.

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## TaiShang

*Cheers for HK police as barricades removed*
Commuters and residents in Hong Kong plagued by traffic disruptions triggered by 20 days of illegal sit-ins cheered on Friday as police partially reopened key roads.




_Residents applaud as traffic flow resumes in Mong Kok, Hong Kong, on Friday after police cleared a protest zone in a dawn raid. KIN CHEUNG / ASSOCIATED PRESS_

Three-way traffic at Kowloon’s busiest intersection resumed after a police operation early in the day. However, southbound traffic at the junction remains blocked by the protesters.

A 40-year-old newspaper hawker surnamed To, who works near Mong Kok subway station, said she is delighted that she can finally travel home by bus.

“I live miles away and have had to transfer several times to get home. Trains have been overcrowded and my traveling time had more than doubled,” To said.

She said deliveries to her stall on Friday had been on time for the first time in weeks and sales had increased by more than 30 percent.

Lee Tak, a 57-year-old security guard who works in the evenings, said he hopes the protesters will end their disruption at night.

Some workers remained cautious, saying there are still delays and diversions as some protesters remain on the streets.

Police removed barricades at the Kowloon intersection, but about 200 protesters returned shortly before noon to reoccupy the south side, which remains closed to traffic.

A group of protesters also attempted to reoccupy Lung Wo Road in Admiralty, the scene of a short-lived blockade on Wednesday evening.

*Chief Superintendent Stephen Hui said police will not tolerate blocked roads or threats to public safety, adding that the force will take “resolute action”*.

Hui said police have a duty to protect the public’s right to use roads and he also criticized radical protesters, accusing them of harassment.

*He said the hit-and-run tactics being used by “flash mobs” have introduced a new level of chaos to the situation and these protesters have ignored the safety of other road users*.

*Hui said the public will not accept such acts and called on those responsible to reflect on the serious consequences of potential accidents resulting from the blockades.*

*He warned protesters not to imitate the “flash mob” tactics or to incite others to commit illegal acts online, saying there will be consequences for improper online conduct and that Internet users who trigger protests will be criminally liable.*

Police say 38 officers were injured during operations to maintain public order, during which officers faced abuse from protesters.

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## TheMatador

Nan Yang said:


> This is exactly what the occupiers protesters wants.


The West thinks that China lacks the balls to act decisively. Prove them wrong. Never disregard the Stalin solution. Dead people never stand in your way. The occupy are trying to ruin Hong Kong for their foreign puppetmasters. Their crime is punishable by death.


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## Aepsilons

TheMatador said:


> The West thinks that China lacks the balls to act decisively. Prove them wrong. Never disregard the Stalin solution. Dead people never stand in your way. The occupy are trying to ruin Hong Kong for their foreign puppetmasters. Their crime is punishable by death.



So, in your unassailable wisdom, pray tell us the best course of action ?

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## TheMatador

Nihonjin1051 said:


> So, in your unassailable wisdom, pray tell us the best course of action ?


Sentence them to hard labor building barricades for PLA positions in the Himalayas against Indian army

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## terranMarine

TheMatador said:


> Sentence them to hard labor building barricades for PLA positions in the Himalayas against Indian army


That's a good way of putting them into good use

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## TaiShang

*391 district council members call for an end to protests*

Hundreds of district council members from Hong Kong have called on protesters to stop the "Occupy Central" movement. They said many major roads have been blocked for days, which has severely affected the city’s economy and social order.

"My colleagues from the district council have received a great number of complaints from local residents. The protests have made it very inconvenient to go to work or go to school. Especially for senior citizens, many of them don’t know what to do," said Yip Wing-shing, chairman of Central and Western District Council.

"The protest area in the Mong Kok is a very complicated area, which consists of many different people. Many residents say they feel afraid to go through the area on their way home, because they don’t know whether there will be clashes and if they will be affected," said Chung Kong Mo, chairman of Yau Tsim Mong Distric Council.

The 391 district council members jointly delivered a open letter to the protesters, saying although they were happy to see young people in Hong Kong showing concern about the region’s future, the Occupy Central movement was having a negative impact on people’s daily lives. The district members called for protesters to stop their activities and leave protest areas, to allow social order to return to normal.

*Dialogue set for Tuesday despite Mong Kok clashes*


Nearly 9,000 protesters attempted to reoccupy parts of Hong Kong’s Mong Kok district over the weekend, resulting in clashes that saw 33 arrested and 18 policemen injured.

At a press conference on Saturday, police said that demonstrators had clashed with police and resisted arrest. They condemned the demonstrators’ actions as “violent” and “illegal”.






They also said that the protesters’ actions contradicted their claims that they were behaving peacefully.

Despite the clashes, dialogue between the Hong Kong SAR government and representatives of the student protesters has been set for Tuesday, with the participation of five members from each side.

The region’s Chief Secretary, Carrie Lam on Saturday stressed the government’s sincerity toward the talks and said she was eager to have the meeting.






Confirmed as attending the meeting will be Carrie Lam herself as well as the Secretary for Justice, Rimsky Yuen and the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs, Raymond Tam.

Meanwhile, transit officials have reported that half of Hong Kong’s bus services have been affected by the protests.

Protesters remain at three major sites: Mong Kok, Causeway Bay and Central, despite that their numbers fluctuate in size. Attempts by the Hong Kong police to clear the roads and restore traffic have often been met with heavy resistance from the occupiers.

***

In the meanwhile, London police seem to have much little patience with those who disturb public peace.

*#TarpaulinRevolution: London police storm Parliament Square occupation*
Published time: October 20, 2014 11:34





Screenshot from youtube by Occupy London TV

Austerity, Clashes, Human rights,Opposition, Police, Politics, Protest, Rally,UK, Violence
Police arrested one man and others were injured after hundreds of officers applied force in attempts to evict Occupy Democracy protesters from Parliament Square on Sunday night.

Following two days of peaceful occupation and protest, dubbed the #TarpaulinRevolution and #OccupyTarpaulin on Twitter, over one hundred police officers descended on the group, using force to seize the tarpaulins making up their makeshift camp.

On social media there were reports of officers kicking protesters. One activist described the levels of force used to remove the tarpaulins as “unnecessary.”

Police claimed demonstrations had violated the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, which states that possessing items that could be used for sleeping in Parliament Square is illegal.

One protester set up a live video feed of the violence on the website Bambuser, and others quickly reported the extreme measures taken by the police.

Police issued a 30 minute warning to the activists, who were told to leave or face arrest, before they began forcibly removing the tarpaulins. The use of force caused outcry on social media, with claims that police measures were disproportionate.

Self-styled radical Russell Brand was spotted amongst the crowd delivering pizza, eager to shed the label of “bogus revolutionary” given to him by Piers Morgan in a recent Twitter spat.

The protests were initially staged in solidarity with Occupy Democracy in Hong Kong. Scenes of Chinese police brutality have sparked outrage on social media.

Protesters accused Prime Minister David Cameron of hypocrisy. They pointed out that Cameron had spoken out in defense of the Hong Kong protesters last Wednesday, yet had employed force to quell domestic protests.

Cameron’s support for the Hong Kong movement came after footage was released on the October 14 of Hong Kong police applying force to control demonstrators.

One activist’s blog commented, “If a progressive movement can gauge the effect it’s having from the response of the State, then the Unions should be ashamed of themselves, and the Occupy movement should be cheering loudly.”





Still surrounded, some occupiers dragged away, hundreds of police #parliamentsquare #occupydemocracy

11:24 AM - 18 Oct 2014

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## 劉天兆

同胞们，看着这群傻吊，大家有没有一种智商上的优越感？


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## Snomannen

A bunch of so-called pro-democracy protesters tried to expand their "territory" to other place in Hong Kong, yet they were shouted by the locals. They clapped when those protesters left.

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## TaiShang

*HK Supreme Court enacts injunction to ban protesters from blocking roads*
_2014-10-21 
_
The Supreme Court of Hong Kong on Monday enacted a preliminary injunction to ban demonstrators from occupying roads in Mong Kok.

*The move was made after groups of mini-buses and taxi operators filed for an injunction that would reopen the paralyzed roads in Mong Kok occupied by protesters for the last 23 days.*

A lawyer representing the group said the ongoing movement in places like Mong Kok have blocked many roads and disrupted public transport, which inflicted losses on taxi and bus companies.

More scuffles erupted late Sunday, the third turbulent night in Mong Kok following the police's before-dawn operation on Friday, when most of the tents, canopies and barricades blocking main roads in the commercial area in Kowloon for almost three weeks were removed.

Mong Kok is an offshoot protest site across the Victoria Harbor from the main demonstration area in Admiralty where the government headquarters is located.

Hong Kong's Chief Secretary Carrie Lam said Saturday that region's government planned to have formal talks with representatives of the students participating in the Occupy movement on Tuesday, and each side will have five representatives.

Thousands of protesters, mostly students, joined the Occupy Central movement on Sept. 28 to express their discontent with an electoral reform package for choosing the region's next leader.

*According to Hong Kong's Basic Law and the top Chinese legislature's decisions, more than 5 million Hong Kongers can choose the chief executive in 2017 through a "one man, one vote" election, which had never been realized under the British colonial rule.*

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## Keel

KirovAirship said:


> A bunch of so-called pro-democracy protesters tried to expand their "territory" to other place in Hong Kong, yet they were shouted by the locals. They clapped when those protesters left.



Gutsy people
Very well done!

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## Snomannen

Keel said:


> Gutsy people
> Very well done!



Sth that the western medias wouldn't tell you.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The party time is over, it is time to go back to school.

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## TaiShang

*HK students at risk of anti-China scheming*

The Occupy Central movement in Hong Kong has lasted more than three weeks. The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region government on Tuesday held talks with the Hong Kong Federation of Students. But given a lack of positivity on the part of the latter during the talks, it remains unknown when the Occupy movement will end. 

*The external political situation concerning Occupy Central is increasingly clear-cut. Western public opinion has given it full support. Besides, a mix of traditional forces that are confronting the current Chinese regime, including Tibetan, Xinjiang and Taiwan separatists, Falun Gong devotees, and pro-democracy activists, have beaten the drums for the Hong Kong protests like cheerleaders. *

The Occupy Central activists and their adherents must wake up. *They shouldn't act as a puppet of those hostile external forces. *

*With the Hong Kong radical forces becoming a new member, the anti-China camp seems to be expanding. If this is the case, it will yield terrible results. *

Hong Kong, the Asian financial hub and a role model for the rule of law, will be held hostage by those hostile external forces, transforming into a battlefield between them and the rising China.

*We suggest the Occupy Central activists not take on such a perilous role. Being already embroiled in the political competition in the Asia-Pacific region, they may have been pushed further than they originally intended.* 

*The young Hong Kong students who have participated in Occupy Central should know that China, which is developing rapidly, is their home country and Hong Kong is a part of China's rise. They therefore enjoy more opportunities than their counterparts from a smaller country. Meanwhile, they have to accordingly take responsibility to safeguard China's security as it rises. *

If the Occupy Central forces keep advancing, this will attract more international anti-China forces. The longer the protests last, the harder it will be for the Occupy Central forces to back down. 

Incredible role reversals have often occurred throughout history. A marginal part or even central part of a camp could be converted into the enemies of that camp. We strongly hope the Occupy Central activities won't do so. 

The West-supported external forces will continue cheering for Occupy Central. Exiles will take the Occupy movement as their chance. 

*Their aim is to strike a heavy blow against China and take it down, but is this the goal of the young student participants of Occupy Central? If not, they should withdraw from the protests as soon as possible. *

*And for a small number of hostile elements to China, the country knows how to deal with them.*

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## Keel

KirovAirship said:


> Sth that the western medias wouldn't tell you.



Selective jounalism - working according to the West's hidden agenda  and to the detriment of the majority People's wish

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## Beidou2020

*Occupy Central – Follow the Money*

The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) is a U.S. non-profit soft power organization that was founded in 1983 to ‘promote’ democracy around the world. It is funded primarily through an annual allocation from the U.S. Congress, within the budget of USAID, the U.S. agency for development assistance, which is part of the U.S. State Department. Although administered as a private organization, its funding mostly comes from a governmental appropriation by Congress but was created by The Democracy Program as a bipartisan, private, non-profit corporation. Quote from the NED website.

The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) is a private, nonprofit foundation dedicated to the growth and strengthening of democratic institutions around the world. Each year, with funding from the US Congress, NED supports more than 1,000 projects of non-governmental groups abroad who are working for democratic goals in more than 90 countries.

USAID Hong Kong budget for 2012 was 754,552, in 2010 it was 1,591,547. Annual budgets for USAID projects in Hong Kong from 2008 to 2012 are available on the USAID website.









In a Wikileaks Plus-D cable release dated September 4, 2008 from the American Consulate in Hong Kong to the Secretary of State offices of then Condelezza Rice, we find not only a glimpse into the constant monitoring of the Hong Kong population’s political views, but also another very significant arm of this State Department funded project, The Hong Kong Transition Project. 




In a HKTP report from January 2014





* When they say regularly in the statement above they mean every 3 months at minimum.*

To document where the USAID Hong Kong fund is distributed we go to the NED website for annual reports. Among other funded projects we find in the 2009 report the $272,140 infunding for the National Democratic Institute and in the 2012 report another $460,000 for theNational Democratic Institute for International Affairs.

Funds were stated to be for advancing the dialogue between citizens and political actors on constitutional reforms.

“Through sponsoring public forums and a political participation website (http://designdemocracy.hk/) NDI will support local civil society organizations to analyze and provide recommendations on the government’s proposal for constitutional reform.”

The website project directly funded by the US State Department through USAID grants to NED and NDI Is described on the NED website as “The Centre for Comparative and Public Law (CCPL) at the University of Hong Kong, with support from NDI, is working to amplify citizens’ voices in that consultation process by creating Design Democracy Hong Kong (www.designdemocracy.hk), a unique and neutral website that gives citizens a place to discuss the future of Hong Kong’s electoral system.”

Benny Tai the leader of the group ‘Occupy Central’ is on the board for CCPL and a member of the academic staff on Hong Kong University.








A quick click on the (www.designdemocracy.hk) website has Benny Tai and a slew of other public figures of the Pro-Democracy movement, which at a glance appears to encompass all of them, including Joshua Wong of Scholarism.





*To what extent is the US State Department directly involved. *

In another Wikileaks Plus-D cable we find China Program Director of NDI Christine Chung reports directly to the US State Department. In part two of a cable dated May 4th 2006 from the American Consulate in Hong Kong to the Offices of the Secretary of State, Christine Chung reports the following.








Wikileaks Plus D cables


Another classified WikiLeaks Plus-D cable dated July 2, 2009 from the American Consulate in Hong Kong to the offices of the Secretary of State titled HONG KONG JULY 1 MARCH: HEAT HALVES HOPED-FOR HUNDRED THOUSAND. We see how the discussion is about the turn out of a demonstration and the how’s and why’s of what caused a lower than expected turn out and Intel on how to attain, from their perspective a more successful event in the future.

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## Beidou2020

In another classified WikiLeaks Cable dated Mon, 4 Jan 2010 from the American Consulate in Hong Kong to the offices of the Secretary of State titled *Hong Kong January 1 Democracy Demonstration: One March, Four Causes *they describe how they feel the focus of the march was to broad to be effective for their interests and how to counter that in the future. Many more examples like these are available on the WikiLeaks site.









One of the above mentioned groups, *Civic Exchange*, received_$45,000 from NED in 2005._




















*What is the Hong Kong Transition Project doing? A better question would be, what are they not doing?*

The Hong Kong Transition project has been actively monitoring the political attitude of voting and non voting citizens of Hong Kong in every way they can think of it seems since 1997. The well prepared reports on their website encompass everything from every three month, demographically targeted Hong Kongese voter phone polling campaigns to the in-depth study on the various age ranges of Hong Kongese psychological attitudes on all aspects of current political topics, with the obvious goal of delivering the gathered intelligence to US State Dept for the basis of strategizing future endeavours.


*Occupy Central Briefing Jan 2014.pdf Jan 2014*




In our search for information regarding the Scholarism group and Joshua Wong we found that NDI has been monitoring Schlorism Founder and Student Movement leader Joshua Wong’s activities at least since he was 15.

There is also “student leader” Joshua Wong, who was arrested amid the protests. Wong has had his career tracked by the NDI’s “NDItech” project since as early as 2012. In a post titled, “In Hong Kong, Does “Change Begin with a Single Step”?,” NDI reports:

Scholarism founder Joshua Wong Chi-fung, 15, has become an icon of the movement, and his skillful interactions with media have been memorialized and disseminated on Youtube. Through this page, Hong Kong youth have coalesced around common messages and images – for example, equating MNE with “brainwashing” and echoing themes reminiscent of the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy movement.

Wong’s work serves to challenge attempts by Beijing to reestablish Chinese institutions on the island, preserving Western-style (and co-opted) institutions including the education system

For anyone deeply involved in the Umbrella Movement and journalists the world over we highly urge you to use this article as a stepping stone to finding more information, because despite the depth of the material we gathered above, we have barely even scratched the surface on bringing the entire situation into the light. The US involvement in Hong Kong’s political atmosphere is a decades long project and Hong Kong is most certainly not the only ‘hot spot’ we stumbled upon.​

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## TaiShang

Time for HK local government to forcefully reveal the foreign meddling in China's internal affairs. In fact, CE of Hong Kong recently stated that the local government would be revealing the foreign interest involved in the whole occupy show.

This is a great opportunity to reveal the real nature and hidden agenda of the Occupier elite and forever discredit them.

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> Time for HK local government to forcefully reveal the foreign meddling in China's internal affairs. In fact, CE of Hong Kong recently stated that the local government would be revealing the foreign interest involved in the whole occupy show.
> 
> This is a great opportunity to reveal the real nature and hidden agenda of the Occupier elite and forever discredit them.



It's time to name and shame this US-created movement and expose the role of the US and it's NGO's in this nonsense.

But the only way to stop this will be to completely ban all US NGO's in Chinese territory. Unless the CPC bans them, this kind of protest will restart.

It's also a MASSIVE failure of Chinese intelligence agencies because they either didn't know this was happening or they didn't do a good enough job of infiltrating and destroying this movement.

That's why you have intelligence agencies, to stop this kind of foreign infiltration. Chinese intelligence has been a complete failure in protecting domestic social stability.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> It's also a MASSIVE failure of Chinese intelligence agencies because they either didn't know this was happening or they didn't do a good enough job of infiltrating and destroying this movement.
> That's why you have intelligence agencies, to stop this kind of foreign infiltration. Chinese intelligence has been a complete failure in protecting domestic social stability.



China may need a military industrial and intelligence complex no smaller than the US. That's the ultimate goal, but, given China's other priorities such as lifting the remaining 85 million out of poverty and elevating China into a developed country status. It is no easy task and I can't help sympathize with those who have to manage all these at the same time.

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## TaiShang

Keel said:


> Selective jounalism - working according the the West's hidden agenda  to the detriment of the majority People's wish



Western propaganda is becoming more and more irrelevant now. That explain the sockpuppets and desperate Indian's recent hyped-up efforts to troll the whole internet with anti-China propaganda.

Meanwhile...

A very polite conversation.

‪#‎HK‬ student ‪#‎protesters‬ talk with ‪#‎government‬.






LOL. The SOW looks worn out.

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## rashid.sarwar

In Pakistan we can understand that every agent is/was like ramen devis roaming freely without check and balance thanks to our sold out politician, but in China, I am totally in blank and secondly can anyone tell me what is the problem(complications) in kicking the american/western backed NGO out of HK

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> China may need a military industrial and intelligence complex no smaller than the US. That's the ultimate goal, but, given China's other priorities such as lifting the remaining 85 million out of poverty and elevating China into a developed country status. It is no easy task and I can't help sympathize with those who have to manage all these at the same time.



Yes I agree. But you don't ever sacrifice national security for anything. China can allow private sector to grow the economy but the protection and stability of the country must be the first priority for the central government.

China needs a similar military industrial AND intelligence complex to the US.

US is using modern methods to achieve their geopolitical goals and the rest of the world are still not aware of the new methods the US uses. Military is not the only option for regime change. The US even creates terror organisations and use them as an excuse to bomb countries.



rashid.sarwar said:


> In Pakistan we can understand that every agent is/was like ramen devis roaming freely without check and balance thanks to our sold out politician, but in China, I am totally in blank and secondly can anyone tell me what is the problem(complications) in kicking the american/western backed NGO out of HK



It's weak leadership and overestimation of American power.

Even Vladimir Putin is not tough enough on the US.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> Yes I agree. But you don't ever sacrifice national security for anything. China can allow private sector to grow the economy but the protection and stability of the country must be the first priority for the central government.
> 
> China needs a similar military industrial AND intelligence complex to the US.
> 
> US is using modern methods to achieve their geopolitical goals and the rest of the world are still not aware of the new methods the US uses. Military is not the only option for regime change. The US even creates terror organisations and use them as an excuse to bomb countries.



I agree. National survival cannot be sacrificed for petty social security issues. Just need to strike the right balance. Because, in the end, an economically powerful country is also a big plus to the overall national power. I would hope to see bigger budget allocation for propaganda, international consent-making efforts, as well domestic and external intelligence apparatus.

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## Keel

Great postings  Rep @Beidou2020 

I think US has been planting these "time bombs" in countries which are unconforming to the US directives all over the world. HK is the ideal launching pad for anti China campaigns which are intended to create big chaos on the Mainland like the size of 89 Tianmen Sq which has scorched a deeply burnt scar on every Chnese. The Nation and our People have not completely healed from the painful wound even now going into its 26th anniversary

Some events which has deepened the Hegemony's psychological mixture of fear and hatred on us:
1. Helping Russia to fight against NATO's sanctions
2. Refusal to join their allies in combating ISIS
3. Rising RMB which challenges the supremacy of the dollar regardless of how remotely realistic it is
4. Rising military and economic power
5. Growing assertions on our sovereignty rights in areas such as SCS and Diaoyu Islands
6. Challenging their dominance in Asia and many other parts of the world
7. Taiwan, Xinjiang, Tibet ... dissidents

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## TaiShang

Keel said:


> Great postings  Rep @Beidou2020
> 
> I think US has been planting these "time bombs" in countries which are unconforming to the US directives all over the world. HK is the ideal launching pad for anti China campaigns which are intended to create big chaos on the Mainland like the size of 89 Tianmen Sq which has scorched a deeply burnt scar on every Chnese. The Nation and our People have not completely healed from the painful wound into its 26th anniversary
> 
> Some events which has deepened the Hegemony's psychological mixture of fear and hatred on us:
> 1. Helping Russia to fight against NATO's sanctions
> 2. Refusal to join their allies in combating ISIS
> 3. Rising RMB which challenges the supremacy of the dollar regardless of how remotely realistic it is
> 4. Rising military and economic power
> 5. Growing assertions on our sovereignty rights; such as SCS and Diaoyu Islands
> 6. Challenging their dominance in Asia and many other parts of the world
> 7. Taiwan, Xinjiang, Tibet ... dissidents



Very well said. Simply, they want to destabilize China directly, and/or, through proxies. Only national awareness and unity can beat the enemy and ensure China's steady rise to the world's strongest power status.

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> Western propaganda is becoming more and more irrelevant now. That explain the sockpuppets and desperate Indian's recent hyped-up efforts to troll the whole internet with anti-China propaganda.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> A very polite conversation.
> 
> ‪#‎HK‬ student ‪#‎protesters‬ talk with ‪#‎government‬.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The SOW looks worn out.



I knew it.

There are many members that suddenly pop up and post pro-American propaganda or anti-China propaganda.

Explains everything.

US military and its intelligence agencies are most definitely on this forum.

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## powastick

NED is also meddling in Malaysia. I don't like the ruling government but even more don't like America meddling in our politics.
Malaysia: Failure of U.S. to Subvert the Elections and Install a “Proxy Regime” | Global Research

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## DeVice

Thousands people of Anti-Occupy Movement held a rival protest!

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## Beidou2020

Keel said:


> Great postings  Rep @Beidou2020
> 
> I think US has been planting these "time bombs" in countries which are unconforming to the US directives all over the world. HK is the ideal launching pad for anti China campaigns which are intended to create big chaos on the Mainland like the size of 89 Tianmen Sq which has scorched a deeply burnt scar on every Chnese. The Nation and our People have not completely healed from the painful wound even now going into its 26th anniversary
> 
> Some events which has deepened the Hegemony's psychological mixture of fear and hatred on us:
> 1. Helping Russia to fight against NATO's sanctions
> 2. Refusal to join their allies in combating ISIS
> 3. Rising RMB which challenges the supremacy of the dollar regardless of how remotely realistic it is
> 4. Rising military and economic power
> 5. Growing assertions on our sovereignty rights in areas such as SCS and Diaoyu Islands
> 6. Challenging their dominance in Asia and many other parts of the world
> 7. Taiwan, Xinjiang, Tibet ... dissidents



You nailed it!

All the points you mentioned are exactly why the US hates China and want to destabilise China.
China is the biggest power that can put a check on American thuggery.

I think they want to damage global confidence in the Chinese economy by creating destabilising events like this protest.

Hong Kong being a financial centre and having strong links to Mainland China's economy might be a way to hurt China's economy indirectly.

I wouldn't rule out anything with these fascists in Washington.



powastick said:


> NED is also meddling in Malaysia. I don't like the ruling government but even more don't like America meddling in our politics.
> Malaysia: Failure of U.S. to Subvert the Elections and Install a “Proxy Regime” | Global Research



They are doing this in EVERY country that doesn't bow down to the monstrosity that is the American regime. They did it to even Russia in 2012 with that Alexei Navalny guy.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> I knew it.
> 
> There are many members that suddenly pop up and post pro-American propaganda or anti-China propaganda.
> 
> Explains everything.
> 
> US military and its intelligence agencies are most definitely on this forum.



No doubt about that. The more helpless and desperate they become, the more noise they will make. Not that we were not expecting such a thing.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> You nailed it!
> 
> All the points you mentioned are exactly why the US hates China and want to destabilise China.
> China is the biggest power that can put a check on American thuggery.
> 
> I think they want to damage global confidence in the Chinese economy by creating destabilising events like this protest.
> 
> Hong Kong being a financial centre and having strong links to Mainland China's economy might be a way to hurt China's economy indirectly.
> 
> I wouldn't rule out anything with these fascists in Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> They are doing this in EVERY country that doesn't bow down to the monstrosity that is the American regime. They did it to even Russia in 2012 with that Alexei Navalny guy.



Also do not forget, how they punished first, Saddam, then Gaddafi. Not that they were more brutal or dictatorial US's ME allies like Saudis and Qataris. 

Can Saudis ever have a regime problem so long as they prop up petrodollar?

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## DeVice

Beidou2020 said:


> I knew it.
> 
> There are many members that suddenly pop up and post pro-American propaganda or anti-China propaganda.
> 
> Explains everything.
> 
> US military and its intelligence agencies are most definitely on this forum.



Anti-American is also everywhere too.

I think people just frustrate with their own life and want to trash in internet. USA and China are mostly their main target...

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> No doubt about that. The more helpless and desperate they become, the more noise they will make. Not that we were not expecting such a thing.



Back in the days, the US tried to at least PRETEND to do the right thing.

But since the 2008 crash, they realised their power is weakening so they stopped trying to pretend and just do whatever they want to do knowing their window of opportunity is closing with the rise of other powerful countries.



DeVice said:


> Anti-American is also everywhere too.
> 
> I think people just frustrate with their own life and want to trash in internet. USA and China are mostly their main target...



Anti-American is growing because of the problems the American regime is causing all over the planet.

Right now, the US regime is worse than the Nazi regime.

From the dozens of wars and millions slaughtered, the concentration camps all over the world, to CIA operations to topple governments, to funding terrorists to achieve geopolitical goals, etc.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> But since the 2008 crash, they realised their power is weakening so they stopped trying to pretend and just do whatever they want to do knowing their window of opportunity is closing with the rise of other powerful countries.



Yes, surprisingly, with Obama, the US foreign policy has become more rhetoric and anger, as opposed to what I was hoping for.

They are very unpredictable now.

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## DeVice

I wonder if you guys in mainland can watch YouTube?

Liu Huiqing, she is a pan-democracy of HK, kicked out for entering a hair salon. 






你們這群學聯要我們香港全部人都要聽你們的說話，聽你們的心聲，那你們學聯有沒有想不想聽我們大部分香港市民的心聲？ ？

應該講比佢地知，我地依班香港人係唔中意佢地代表我地，佢地想既野都唔代表我地大部分香港人要既！但係佢地係都要迫我地聽佢地既廢話！

他們說他們的說話是代表香港人的心聲？？！！哈哈哈哈誰要你們代表， 你們的心聲是你們的事，我不要你們的.
得閒去食野行街都好過聽你們的廢話

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## Jguo

Americans admit to this themselves, it's pretty blatant.

Start at 0:25; though I do not agree with some of their analysis later

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> Also do not forget, how they punished first, Saddam, then Gaddafi. Not that they were more brutal or dictatorial US's ME allies like Saudis and Qataris.
> 
> Can Saudis ever have a regime problem so long as they prop up petrodollar?



The US couldn't care less about the political system of a country. It's never been about democracy vs authoritarian. All they care is if the government is pro-US or anti-US.

The main source of power of the US is the reserve currency status of the dollar. The higher the marketshare of the dollar in international payments, foreign exchange transactions and foreign exchange reserves, the greater the power of the US. Diminish that marketshare of the dollar and you severely weaken the American regime to its very core from its economic power, financial power, technological power and military power.

Russia and China must target the dollar.
Chop off the head instead of trying to go after other parts of the body.
Go after the dollar.

You can have the biggest arms and legs but without a head, your arms and legs stop operating. Just ask the Soviet Union.

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## mike2000

rashid.sarwar said:


> In Pakistan we can understand that every agent is/was like ramen devis roaming freely without check and balance thanks to our sold out politician, but in China, I am totally in blank and secondly can anyone tell me what is the problem(complications) in kicking the american/western backed NGO out of HK



Lool that's because the CCP is corrupt to the core. hence we can infiltrate china more easily. As i said before, they are quite incompetent to some extent, unlike what most of us think .
Moreover i dont understand why some chinese member on here are crying foul, of course the U.S and any country for that matter will do everything that is in their interests, doesn't matter if its morally right or wrong as far as your objectives are met.i don't fibd anything wrong in that, Russia and china willl doo the same if they were as powerful as the U.S. Thats politics for u. if you cant play it then give up and join our side.


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## Keel

mike2000 said:


> Lool that's because the CCP is corrupt to the core. hence we can infiltrate china more easily. As i said before, they are quite incompetent to some extent, unlike what most of us think .
> Moreover i dont understand why some chinese member on here are crying foul, of course the U.S and any country for that matter will do everything that is in their interests, doesn't matter if its morally right or wrong as far as your objectives are met.i don't fibd anything wrong in that, Russia and china willl doo the same if they were as powerful as the U.S. Thats politics for u. if you cant play it then give up and join our side.



You are right
The uk and usa infiltrations are a lot more deadly and widespread than ebola
HK is on par in terms of corruption perception index with uk
China is better on those scores than corruptive India

An invitation to join viruses? No way 
We would first of all like to have the diseases contained / quarantined 
It takes time, just more time to find the curing vaccine.




rashid.sarwar said:


> In Pakistan we can understand that every agent is/was like ramen devis roaming freely without check and balance thanks to our sold out politician, but in China, I am totally in blank and secondly can anyone tell me *what is the problem(complications) in kicking the american/western backed NGO out of HK*



First a massive media fanfare on violations of HRs / blocking freedom of this or that 
Second Diplomatic blamegame 
Third - Sanctions intiated by the wolfpack 
4th - impending war

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## Keel

Keel said:


> dont worship "democracy" like it is the almighty that can fix everything
> 
> as I mentioned in my post a black guy was killed in Missouri after a series of "witch-hunting" like crimes against the black community. How long has the USA been trying to eradicate race discrimnation since G. Washington and fail? And you are the "democracy" of the world?
> 
> 
> 
> so you are saying change is slow or not at all in VN then you, alongside some of the Vietnam-flagged members here are defeating your advocates for the criminals on the streets of HK who are demanding an immediate change to the electoral system while the HK government and CPC are stipulating a gradual progression towards universal suffrage
> 
> 
> 
> Read *post #121* please. That was just focusing on the topic in discussion. There are many other things in which China and USA have opposite and conflicting stances
> 
> .
> 
> Business is business
> Sports are sports
> Politics is different - it may cause bloodbath.
> 
> 
> 
> There are perhaps more atrocities done in India alone than China
> YOu still miss my point. "democracy" is not God!
> 
> Again if you allow India, Brazil, the Philippines and as you also claimed Vietnam the patience to change over time then why you are supporting HK criminals to change the system in HK drastically? You are double standard and contradicing yourself.
> 
> India has done and is still doing a lot of bad things to its people a lot more than "house eviction" despite its claim of the largest "democracy"
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think India nor the American presidents will agree to this statement.



Correction to above: post *# 107*














*Occupy Central: Holding Hong Kong’s 'Silent Majority' Hostage*
The majority of Hongkongers are against the protests, which pose a serious threat to the rule of law and social stability.





By Jin Kai
October 18, 2014

“Greek, ‘rule by the people’.” This is the definition of “democracy” given by Oxford Concise Dictionary of Politics. It adds, “Since the people are rarely unanimous, democracy as a descriptive term is synonymous with majority rule.”

Who are the majority in Hong Kong, especially in this chaotic situation? According to recent polls conducted by University of Hong Kong, as of *October 2014, 54 percent of the interviewees in Hong Kong opposed “Occupy Central.” By contrast, only 27 percent of Hongkongers support this movement.*

Interestingly, those who oppose the Occupy Central movement (including groups like “Silent Majority for Hong Kong”) have been quickly labeled as “pro-Beijing” by the “pan-democratic” camp in Hong Kong as well as the West. In general, the term “pro-Beijing” is used to differentiate these groups from others who identify as “pro-democratic” or “pan-democratic.” But this begs the question: Does being “pro-Beijing” naturally equate to a moral and legal “anti-democratic” stance? After all, the Occupy supporters are in the minority. Does the West believe that the minority’s violation of the rule of law and their destruction of social stability is a genuinely pure democracy? Should the Oxford Dictionary revise its definition of “democracy” to include the rule of the minority?

Robert Chow, spokesman for the Alliance for Peace and Democracy in Hong Kong, clarified in a discussion with _Bloomberg TV_ that the alliance speaks for Hong Kong people. Chow said his group started to speak out since the Occupy movement has been holding the “silent majority” “hostage” over the past days. It truly has been a political kidnapping, especially when we remember that “Occupy” was a worldwide, impetuous movement mainly carried by an agitated younger generation. Isn’t this movement a violation of the rule of law, a central value upheld by true believers in democracy? Meanwhile, if people want to criticize the Hong Kong police’s recent move to restore order and the rule of law in Hong Kong, please don’t forget that nearly 8,000 protesters have been arrested in the U.S. since the Occupy movement began in 2011.

Some protestors may truly wish to realize an ultimately pure democracy in Hong Kong. Still, *the fact is that this Special Administrative Region, as a part of China, has actually enjoyed a higher degree of autonomy and democracy than it had at any time during Hong Kong’s 150-year history as a British colony. Prior to 1997, the heads (governors) of Hong Kong were never elected by the Hong Kong people, much less chosen through a “one person, one vote” direct election. It was not until 1997 when Hong Kong people (the 400 members of the Selection Committee) truly voted and elected their first chief executive.*

Yes, pure democracy is a good thing, but it definitely requires a long process. Without a progressive approach that includes a process of “localization,” pure democracy risks causing uncontrollable social chaos and political disasters. We’ve already seen this happen in some Arab and Eurasian states after the so-called “Arab Spring” and “color revolutions.”

In Hong Kong, these young college students and even high-school teenagers could have won good will for seeking a more democratic and better future for Hong Kong. The problem lies in the extreme, irresponsible, and impetuous way they have chosen to express their political will. Ironically, they themselves are providing the most direct challenge to their original ideals. Their idealism and impetuosity is a dangerous combination.

*Meanwhile, the Hong Kong government and Beijing have remained relatively moderate. Their advantage (and their confidence) comes from the majority’s support. Their attitude, a sort of realist constancy, has proven much more effective than the protestors’ actions of blocking streets and occupying public spaces (especially after perceptions grew that the students were using these spaces as their personal playground).*

And, of course,* there’s an even thornier question: who is behind these college students and high school teenagers? It’s needless to speculate now; the truth will eventually come out.*

I’ll leave readers with Robert Chow’s incisive argument from his _Bloomberg _interview: *“At the end of the day, democracy is giving the vote to the people, let the people decide… It’s not going out to the street, blocking everything and say, ‘Right, I have the might, I have the mob, then I win.’ No, sorry, that is not democracy.”*

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## visom

Clowns? Do you mean typical young adults being dumb, wild, expressive? Many successful people were once like that as a teenager or college student.


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## cnleio

HongKong 






Sino-Russia trade during Ukraine crisis

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## powastick

Prove that US is only targeting the people who they don't like. Hypocrites.

Saudi regime sentences two more pro-democracy protesters to death | Al Akhbar English

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## DoTell

mike2000 said:


> Lool that's because the CCP is corrupt to the core. hence we can infiltrate china more easily. As i said before, they are quite incompetent to some extent, unlike what most of us think .
> Moreover i dont understand why some chinese member on here are crying foul, of course the U.S and any country for that matter will do everything that is in their interests, doesn't matter if its morally right or wrong as far as your objectives are met.i don't fibd anything wrong in that, Russia and china willl doo the same if they were as powerful as the U.S. Thats politics for u. if you cant play it then give up and join our side.


 
There are also British and U.S. nationals joining ISIS. Guess ISIS is "as powerful as" you  LOL.

What's happening is one side is trying to sell illusions to the other side. "Freedom" is just as enticing as "72 virgins". It has nothing to do with who is powerful.

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## TaiShang

*Turmoil in Hong Kong, Terrorism in Xinjiang: America’s Covert War on China*
By Tony Cartalucci
Global Research, October 21, 2014

_China is facing increasing pressure along two fronts. In its western province of Xinjiang, terrorists have been stepping up destabilization and separatist activities._

In China’s southeast Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong, protests have disrupted normality in the dense urban streets, with protest leaders seeking to directly confront Beijing while dividing and destabilizing both Hong Kong society and attempting to “infect” the mainland.

What is more troubling is the greater geopolitical agenda driving both of these seemingly “internal” conflicts – and that they both lead back to a single source beyond China’s borders. With the so-called “Islamic State” (ISIS) now implicated in receiving, training, and employing terrorists from China’s Xinjiang province, and considering the fact that ISIS is the result of an intentional, engineered proxy war the US and its allies are waging in the Middle East, along with the fact that the unrest in Hong Kong is also traced back to Washington and London, presents a narrative of an ongoing confrontation between East and West being fought on the battlefield of fourth generation warfare.

*ISIS: Washington’s Global Expeditionary Force *

If one was asked to name a global-spanning military and intelligence operation opposed to Syria, Iran, Russia, and China, they might say the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the US Government – and they would be right. But they could also easily answer by saying the “Islamic State” or ISIS/ISIL as it is also known. This is especially true after revelations surfaced that US-backed Uyghur separatists in China’s western-most province of Xinjiang have joined ISIS for training with intentions of leading an armed rebellion against Beijing upon their return.

Reuters in their article, “China militants getting IS ‘training’,” would claim:

Chinese militants from the western region of Xinjiang have fled from the country to get “terrorist training” from Islamic State group fighters for attacks at home, state media reported on Monday.

The report was the first time state-run media had linked militants from Xinjiang, home to ethnic minority Uighur Muslims, to militants of the Islamic State group of radical Sunni Muslims.

China’s government has blamed a surge of violence over the past year on Islamist militants from Xinjiang who China says are fighting for an independent state called East Turkestan.

However, it isn’t just China’s government that claims militants in Xinjiang seek to carve out an independent state in western China – the militants themselves have stated as much, and the United States government fully backs their agenda to do so. Indeed, first and foremost in backing the Xinjiang Uyghur separatists is the United States through the US State Department’s National Endowment for Democracy (NED). For China, the Western region referred to as “Xinjiang/East Turkistan” has its own webpage on NED’s site covering the various fronts funded by the US which include:

*International Uyghur Human Rights and Democracy Foundation *$187,918To advance the human rights of ethnic Uyghur women and children. The Foundation will maintain an English- and Uyghur-language website and advocate on the human rights situation of Uyghur women and children.

*International Uyghur PEN Club* $45,000To promote freedom of expression for Uyghurs. The International Uyghur PEN Club will maintain a website providing information about banned writings and the work and status of persecuted poets, historians, journalists, and others. Uyghur PEN will also conduct international advocacy campaigns on behalf of imprisoned writers.

*Uyghur American Association* $280,000To raise awareness of Uyghur human rights issues. UAA’s Uyghur Human Rights Project will research, document, and bring to international attention, independent and accurate information about human rights violations affecting the Turkic populations of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

*World Uyghur Congress *$185,000To enhance the ability of Uyghur prodemocracy groups and leaders to implement effective human rights and democracy campaigns. The World Uyghur Congress will organize a conference for pro-democracy Uyghur groups and leaders on interethnic issues and conduct advocacy work on Uyghur human rights.

*ISIS Conveniently Targets Washington’s Adversaries Worldwide*

The next step Washington appears to be taking in China is an attempts to enhance the menace of terrorists in Xinjiang. In addition to assisting US attempts to destabilize territory in China, ISIS has also threatened to launch a campaign against another US enemy – Russia – this in addition to already directly fighting Hezbollah in Lebanon, the governments of Syria and Iraq, and with ISIS claiming to be behind attacks in Egypt against the military-led government that ousted the West’s Muslim Brotherhood proxies.

With both Russia and China now in ISIS’ sights, the global public must begin asking questions as to how and why ISIS just so happens to be arraying itself against all of Washington’s enemies, by-passing all of its allies including Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, and where exactly they are getting the weapons, cash, intelligence, logistical, and administrative capabilities to do so.
So suspicious is ISIS’ appearance, agenda, and actions, many across the world have long-ago concluded they are simply the latest creation of the US and other Western-aligned intelligence agencies, just as Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood was before them, So loud has this narrative become, establishment newspapers like the New York Times have begun writing columns to tamp down what they are calling “conspiracy theories.”





The New York Times would report in a piece titled, “Suspicions Run Deep in Iraq That C.I.A. and the Islamic State Are United,” that:

The United States has conducted an escalating campaign of deadly airstrikes against the extremists of the Islamic State for more than a month. But that appears to have done little to tamp down the conspiracy theories still circulating from the streets of Baghdad to the highest levels of Iraqi government that the C.I.A. is secretly behind the same extremists that it is now attacking.

The New York Times dismisses these claims, despite reporting for the past 4 years on the CIA’s presence along the Turkish-Syrian border dumping weapons and cash into the very hotbeds of extremism and terrorism ISIS rose from. Upon closer examination, not only are these claims plausible, they are documented fact.

As far back as 2007, Pulitzer Prize-winning veteran journalist Seymour Hersh would warn of the creation of just such a terror group in his 9-page report in the New Yorker titled, “The Redirection Is the Administration’s new policy benefitting our enemies in the war on terrorism?” He stated that (emphasis added):

To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. *A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda.*

That “by-product” is ISIS. It is through America’s own premeditated conspiracy to plunge not only Syria, but the entire region and now potentially Russia and even China into genocidal sectarian bloodshed that gave intentional rise to ISIS. The creation of ISIS and its use as a proxy mercenary force for Western designs is once again revealed in ISIS’ otherwise irrational declaration of war on Russia first, and now China.

*America Opens Second Front in Hong Kong*

It was in April of 2014 that two co-organizers of the so-called “Occupy Central” protests now ongoing in Hong Kong, would sit in Washington DC giving a talk hosted by the US State Department’s National Endowment for Democracy (NED). There, Martin Lee and Anson Chan set the stage for the impending “Occupy Central” demonstrations, introducing soon-to-be famous “characters” like US-cultivated “activist” Joshua Wong, as well as repeating, verbatim, the agenda, talking points, and slogans now flooding the airwaves and headlines regarding Hong Kong’s unrest.

While the US attempts to peel off Xinjiang province by brute force, it is using a more subtle and insidious method in Hong Kong. During Lee and Chan’s talk in DC earlier this year, a representative from the Council on Foreign Relations would literally proclaim it was hoped that ongoing movements in Hong Kong would “infect” mainland China. Indeed, while militancy and terrorism is being sown in China’s west, sedition, political instability, and social divisions are being cultivated in China’s east.

*America’s Long War With China *

The adversarial nature of Washington’s posture toward Beijing has become increasingly obvious as tensions are intentionally ratcheted up in the South China Sea between US proxies and mainland China, as well as in Hong Kong. This is simply the latest in a much longer proxy war waged against Beijing since as early as the Vietnam War, with the so-called “Pentagon Papers” released in 1969 revealing the conflict as simply one part of a greater strategy aimed at containing and controlling China. While the US would ultimately lose the Vietnam War and any chance of using the Vietnamese as a proxy force against Beijing, the long war against Beijing would continue elsewhere.

This containment strategy would be updated and detailed in the 2006 Strategic Studies Institute report “String of Pearls: Meeting the Challenge of China’s Rising Power across the Asian Littoral” where it outlines China’s efforts to secure its oil lifeline from the Middle East to its shores in the South China Sea as well as means by which the US can maintain American hegemony throughout the Indian and Pacific Ocean. The premise is that, should Western foreign policy fail to entice China into participating in the “international system” as responsible stakeholders, an increasingly confrontational posture must be taken to contain the rising nation.

This includes funding, arming, and backing terrorists and proxy regimes from Africa, across the Middle East, Central Asia, Southeast Asia, and even within China’s territory itself. Documented support of these movements not only include Xinjiang separatists and the leaders of “Occupy Central” in Hong Kong, but also militants and separatists in Baluchistan, Pakistan where the West seeks to disrupt a newly christened Chinese port and pipeline, as well as the machete wielding supporters of Aung San Suu Kyi in Myanmar’s Rakhine state – yet another site the Chinese hope to establish a logistical hub.

It is not a coincidence that ISIS is standing in for and fulfilling America’s deepest imperial aspirations from North Africa, across the Middle East, and now inching toward the borders of the West’s two largest competitors, Russia and China. Nor is it a coincidence that “Occupy Central” protesters are parroting verbatim talking points scripted in Washington earlier this year. It is no coincidence that the US State Department’s NED is found involved in every hotspot of instability and conflict both within China’s borders and beyond them. It is a documented conspiracy that is now increasingly seeing the light truth cast upon it. Whether or not that is enough to end the unnecessary barbarism and bloodshed that has resulted from the West’s hegemonic aspirations remains to be seen.

*Tony Cartalucci*_, Bangkok-based geopolitical researcher and writer, especially for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”._​

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## ChineseTiger1986

mike2000 said:


> Lool that's because the CCP is corrupt to the core. hence we can infiltrate china more easily. As i said before, they are quite incompetent to some extent, unlike what most of us think .
> Moreover i dont understand why some chinese member on here are crying foul, of course the U.S and any country for that matter will do everything that is in their interests, doesn't matter if its morally right or wrong as far as your objectives are met.i don't fibd anything wrong in that, Russia and china willl doo the same if they were as powerful as the U.S. Thats politics for u. if you cant play it then give up and join our side.



No, we love to play game, and Chairman Mao always taught us that fighting with the enemies is a pleasure.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> No, we love to play game, and Chairman Mao always taught us that fighting with the enemies is a pleasure.


yeah, so CCP always wants to find out some enemies internally and externally for fighting?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> yeah, so CCP always wants to find out some enemies internally and externally for fighting?



If they don't fight the enemies, the enemies will fight them.

The world is not peaceful at all, and China needs a strong aggressive regime like CPC, not a spineless western lackey regime like KMT.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If they don't fight the enemies, the enemies will fight them.
> 
> The world is not peaceful at all, and China needs a strong aggressive regime like CPC, not a spineless western lackey regime like KMT.


I see, you either be a big fan of KMT or a victim of KMT


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## ChineseTiger1986

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> I see, you either be a big fan of KMT or a victim of KMT



I was born in the Mainland China during the 1980s, how I can be a victim of KMT?

I despise KMT because of their weakness/incompetence and treason against China.

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## DeVice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I was born in the Mainland China during the 1980s, how I can be a victim of KMT?
> 
> I despise KMT because of their weakness/incompetence and treason against China.



I think KMT will lose in the next public election. 

DPP's Tsai Ing-wen is the strongest candidate for presidency.


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## ChineseTiger1986

DeVice said:


> I think KMT will lose in the next public election.
> 
> DPP's Tsai Ing-wen is the strongest candidate for presidency.



DPP claims that they will arrest Ma if they get into power.

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## DeVice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> DPP claims that they will arrest Ma if they get into power.



And freed Chen Shui-bian.


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## kankan326

DeVice said:


> And freed Chen Shui-bian.


And you call this nasty game "democracy"?

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## ChineseTiger1986

DeVice said:


> And freed Chen Shui-bian.



Sure, we like to see Taiwan is turning into a daily circus, it is none of our business.

We only want to maintain the status quo.

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## TaiShang

DeVice said:


> I think KMT will lose in the next public election.
> 
> DPP's Tsai Ing-wen is the strongest candidate for presidency.



Taiwan's internal affairs is not really of China's concern. 

What China cares about is geopolitics, which is why Taiwan is important for China. That's China's red line.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> Taiwan's internal affairs is not really of China's concern.
> 
> What China cares about is geopolitics, which is why Taiwan is important for China. That's China's red line.



As for HK and Taiwan, there is nothing we can do about to involve into their internal affair.

They can keep playing in the circus, and in one day, there is no more money and they got really tired, then come back to see China and tell us if they want to keep playing the democrazy game in their little circus or they want to live like the rest of China.

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## DeVice

kankan326 said:


> And you call this nasty game "democracy"?



Clowns in circus to be precisely.

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## Keel

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As for HK and Taiwan, there is nothing we can do about to involve into their internal affair.
> 
> They can keep playing in the circus, and in one day, there is no more money and they got really tired, then come back to see China and tell us if they want to keep playing the democrazy game in their little circus or they want to live like the rest of China.



Hmm I think China has a lot tighter rein over HK than Taiwan through the Basic Law because HK cannot have its own Chief Executive without CCP's approval, yes approval.

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## TaiShang

*Failure of Hong Kong version of 'Color Revolution' would be a bliss*

_By Dr. Chen Xulong, Director and Senior Research Fellow of Department for International and Strategic Studies, China Institute of International Studies_

The central authorities were able to quick label the “Occupy Central” campaign as “Hong Kong version of Color Revolution” because they have identified much resemblance it bears to the “color revolutions” in other parts of the world.

*Zhang Xiaoming, director of the Liaison Office off the Central People’s Government in the Hong Kong S.A.R., noted that the nature of the “Occupy Central” campaign is defined by how it has mimicked the ways “color revolutions” were staged - extreme street protests, blockage of government compounds and roads and demands for Hong Kong SAR officials to resign.*

With the development of this event and the exposure of the inside story of the plot, more and more people, realizing the involvement of internal and external opposing forces into the campaign, *are convinced that this campaign serves as Color Revolution with Hong Kong characteristics, which poses threat to stability, solidarity and prosperity in Hong Kong.*

The so-called Color Revolution refers to, originally, the revolution confined to the former Soviet Union which aimed to overthrow the regime established after the disintegration of the Soviet Union and led by its influential people, and to establish a non-Russia influence, Western values-oriented and more pro-Western regime. Afterwards, the conception of “Color Revolution” developed into a wider one: *the US and European countries support the “regime change” designed to overthrow the traditional regime in some countries and establish, based on the Western values, another pro-America regime, such revolution like the political unrest in Middle East and North Africa (namely the so-called Arab Spring)*. In the contemporary world politics, “Color Revolution” has become notorious for its odious nature and great damage and has caused a high degree of vigilance and precaution in many countries.

*[This paragraph is extremely important, TS]*

By penetrating the Color Revolution incited by the west in the past decades, we can drew that *the west has formed a set of operating system in terms of stirring up “Color Revolution”*. The consistent tricks to be applied in provoking such kind of revolution has been revealed: *generally, it is the strategic decision makers of the US who first designate the countries and areas bounding up with its national security and interests*, then, t*hose countries and areas would be sorted based on their degree of threat and importance*. Whereafter, *the west would pointedly determine a specific country or an area and take the advantage of the its local anti-government forces to launch a serious of political activities which aim to overturn the existing regime under color of democratization and by means of human rights struggles*. The CIA *(Central Intelligence Agency) takes charge of secrete plots and guidance behind the scenes, and deals with the flow of human resource and funds*. The relative *non-governmental organizations are responsible for supporting and assisting the local pro-America and anti-government forces*. The means used i*nclude overseas broadcasting station and network propaganda, founding printed journal in local areas and extending their power in the form of religious organizations, cultural community and forum, they also establish training institutions to train activists while widely issuing the so-called “democracy” guidebooks and leading local people to organize street politics and anti-government activities. *

Throughout the history, it is believed that color revolutions in distinct locations have been staged in different versions according to varied periods of their occurrence. Versions that has been recorded in history are as follows: in 1989, the “Velvet Revolution” broke out in Czechoslovakia. In 2000, Milosevic, president of Yugoslav, was ousted by the opposition and ended up being in jails. Georgia’s “Rose Revolution”, Ukraine’s “Orange Revolution” and Kyrgyz’s “Tulip Revolution” happened in 2003, 2004, 2005 respectively. *In 2007, “Saffron Revolution” was piloted in Burma but failed. Attempted Color Revolution, so-called "Twitter Revolution", occurred in Moldova and Iran in 2009*. In 2011, Tunisia's "Jasmine Revolution" brought out the "Arab Spring". In spring this year, “Secondary Color Revolution” occurred in Ukrainian.

History repeatedly shows that* when Color Revolution approaches, brutal political struggle will be staged while peace and tranquility will be gone, development and prosperity will be fled. Color revolution leads some countries to split up, some regimes collapse, some politicians die, and some countries enmesh in turmoil, conflict, ethnic and religious conflicts.* Besides, it also incurs economic slump, social disorder, the rise of extremist violence. Ultimately it is the innocent people that are apt to be suffering.

Color Revolution has never been simple, but it has to gain the help and support of pure and passionate youth (especially university students), taking advantage of their patriotic enthusiasm and pursuit of justice. Many good and innocent participants involved in Color Revolution eventually become pawns or even victims.

We need to draw lessons from these pernicious facts. Due to Color Revolution, the "Arab Spring" transforms into the "Arab Winter”, the war flames and national crisis spread in Ukraine. People should have sufficient knowledge and profound alert on symptoms and hazards of various versions of the color revolutions.

*Hong Kong’s “Umbrella Revolution”, the new version of the Color Revolution, which has lasted for more than three weeks, is diminishing Hong Kong’s democracy in the name of seeking democracy, and has harmed the basic principle of “One Country, Two Systems” and threatened the stability requirement of the “silent majority” of Hong Kong*. So, the illegal and unwelcome movement is doomed to be a failure, and which would be a bliss to the ordinary people in Hong Kong, to the social stability and economic prosperity of Hong Kong, and to the continuing implementation of the Basic Law.

*Why is America so obsessed with 'Color Revolution'?*
Hong Kong’s illegal Occupy Central movement has become the focus of public opinion in the US, with some US forces striving to add fuel to Occupy.
According to foreign media, months ago a responsible person of National Endowment for Democracy (NED), met “the soul person” in “Occupy Central” to discuss the relevant affairs. The responsible person, named Louisa Greve, is the deputy Chairman of NED for Asian and West Asian-North African affairs. *For many years, there have been frequent reports about her connections with Tibetan separatists, East Turkistan Islamists and Democratic Movement Activists; she has also hosted or participated in activities such as symposiums on Arab Spring and color revolutions in other areas.* As always, the US side denies its involvement in and manipulation of Occupy Central, just like it never admit its manipulation of other anti-Chinese forces. Those involved have cloaked themselves in the guise of “democracy, freedom and human rights” to justify their behavior.
NGOs and think-tanks in America pour lots of energy into the Occupy Central campaign and offer suggestions. In her essay _How the Hong Kong Protesters Can Wi_n, by Maria J. Stephan, senior research fellow in United States Institute of Peace and distinguished research fellow in Atlantic Council, *proposed strategies for Occupy with the so-called research data of “non-violent, non-cooperation movements” for a century, especially lessons drawn from “civil disobedience” in a dozen of countries.* This essay doesn’t discuss whether Occupy is advocated by the majority of Hong Kong people, nor the negative impact of Occupy on Hong Kong’s politics, economy and society. It merely focuses on how to achieve Hong Kong protestors’ aim —“democracy”.

*Mainstream US media displays unusual interest in Occupy Central, with many compliments for Occupy Central in reports and reviews about it*. Media organizations all arbitrarily use the word “pro-democracy” when determining the nature of Occupy Central and repeatedly call it “Umbrella Revolution”, taking Occupy Central as a copy of color revolutions in other areas. AP’s report on Occupy Central is titled _Umbrella Revolution Spreads in Hong Kong_; “Umbrella Revolution” appears on the cover of Time’s Asia Edition; on Wall Street Journal, an article says the Hong Kong people “finally see that they can only get democracy by fighting for it”.

*The US government stays involved, too.* Let alone the fact that NGO organizations such as NED directly use the fund for “democracy and human rights” provided by US government, *spokesmen and officials in the White House and the State Council, and diplomats in Hong Kong have all declared several times their “moral” support for Occupy Centra*l. In an open letter, three American former counselors in HK described the chief executive nominating committee system in HK as “democracy in retreat”, worsening the confusing situation HK government faced.

Although the US has denied it, the treatment of the Occupy Central by the US government, NGOs and public opinion, and their involvement in this issue remind us of the US’s role in various color revolutions in areas such as the Commonwealth of the Independent States, the Middle East, North Africa. *America always enjoys pushing forward “Color Revolution” in some countries. Seemingly, it is practicing the “universal value” of “democracy, freedom and human rights”, and a number of Americans and NGOs believe they have the “entitled duty” to “deliver all living creatures from torment”*. But if we look at the consequences of Color Revolution, we find that *the US, with a focus on its own strategic interests, is using revolutions to destroy the disobedient regimes it dislikes*. In US logic, “democratic” countries and regimes accord with its interests.

*America’s Greater Middle East Plan has failed; the Arab Spring has become the Arab Winter; street politics in Ukraine has led to national separation and bloodshed. What these countries experienced is turmoil, not true democracy. But the US turns a blind eye to these lessons.*

With advocates all over the world, including in Hong Kong, the US sometimes benefits from interfering with domestic affairs of other countries. *But on the issue of Hong Kong, the US faces not only China’s consistent strategy of maintaining Hong Kong’s stability and prosperity, but the mainstream opinion in Hong Kong. What the US has done is lift a rock only to drop it on its own feet.*
_ _

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## Beidou2020

Anyone with an IQ above 50 knows these revolutions are done by the US using CIA, NGO's, private military contractors, religious organisations, cultural organisations, universities, think tanks and media.

The question is will the CPC do anything about it or will they ignore it because they are scared to anger the US?
I think the latter will be true. CPC has been getting in bed with the devil (US), and now they will suffer the consequences of that decision.

Iran is one country the US has not penetrated because Iran doesn't allow these US groups inside their country so its extremely difficult to get a revolution going and become successful as Iranian intelligence agencies are one of the best in the world. They destroy anyone trying to start a pro-US revolution and severely punish the people that started it.

This has been a complete failure of Chinese intelligence and Chinese government. That they allow these anti-China individuals and groups to operate in Chinese territory and hope nothing will happen shows how incompetent they are.

This protest movement in Hong Kong is no surprise to me. US is also behind the Tibetan self-immolations and Uighur terrorists acts. US is covertly supporting any anti-China activity in all the weak spots of China (Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Taiwan, SCS, Diaoyu islands)

American government and intelligence have completely outsmarted both Russia and China.

America is playing a 21st century game and Russia and China are still stuck protecting against 20th century threats.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> This protest movement in Hong Kong is no surprise to me. US is also behind the Tibetan self-immolations and Uighur terrorists acts. US is covertly supporting any anti-China activity in all the weak spots of China (Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Taiwan, SCS, Diaoyu islands)



I guess the government is acutely aware of this. But, the issue has to be dealt with without scaring China's economic environment. The whole idea behind the HK protests is to destabilize China. The West/US would not care less about the daily hardships the Chinese may face in case development stalls. They do not care about the women killed according to Sharia by their Al Nusra friends in Syria; why would they care about how passionate Joshua Wang about "democracy."

They care about their own interests which lies in China's stopping being a threat to the US' economic and military imperialism. So, China has to move on carefully, without scaring the elephants (economic dynamics) in the china shop. It is too early to take the US upfront; but, that day will come eventually when either the US will be forced to stop interfering in China's affairs, or, its own weakness and China's relative strength will do the job by default. Either way, the ideological terrorists of the US regime will fail.

*Ex-Hong Kong leader says Chinese military not to handle protests*


Former Hong Kong's top leader Tung Chee-hwa said on Friday that he believes that China's People' s Liberation Army will not get involved in handling the ongoing protes*ts, since he is confident in the capability of Hong Kong's police*.

Tung made the remarks at a press conference held in the former chief executive's official mansion.

It has been the second time for Tung to speak to the press since the Occupy movement started on Sept. 28.

*Three arms of the PLA, army, navy and air force, have garrisoned the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region since the former British colony was handed over to China in 1997.*

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> I guess the government is acutely aware of this. But, the issue has to be dealt with without scaring China's economic environment. The whole idea behind the HK protests is to destabilize China. The West/US would not care less about the daily hardships the Chinese may face in case development stalls. They do not care about the women killed according to Sharia by their Al Nusra friends in Syria; why would they care about how passionate Joshua Wang about "democracy."
> 
> They care about their own interests which lies in China's stopping being a threat to the US' economic and military imperialism. So, China has to move on carefully, without scaring the elephants (economic dynamics) in the china shop. It is too early to take the US upfront; but, that day will come eventually when either the US will be forced to stop interfering in China's affairs, or, its own weakness and China's relative strength will do the job by default. Either way, the ideological terrorists of the US regime will fail.
> 
> *Ex-Hong Kong leader says Chinese military not to handle protests*
> 
> 
> Former Hong Kong's top leader Tung Chee-hwa said on Friday that he believes that China's People' s Liberation Army will not get involved in handling the ongoing protes*ts, since he is confident in the capability of Hong Kong's police*.
> 
> Tung made the remarks at a press conference held in the former chief executive's official mansion.
> 
> It has been the second time for Tung to speak to the press since the Occupy movement started on Sept. 28.
> 
> *Three arms of the PLA, army, navy and air force, have garrisoned the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region since the former British colony was handed over to China in 1997.*



I agree with what you are saying.

But if China don't act and kick out all the groups I mentioned out of China, then the US will achieve its goal of halting China's progress through protest movements using these groups as you see in other countries.

US won't sanction China because the US economy and US multinationals depend on China for many things. By sanctioning China, the US destroys itself. So China must be smart and see that China holds all the cards here, not the US. US will scream but they can't do anything to China militarily or sanctions wise. China is far too big economically to the world to cut out China.

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## DeVice

HK government will pass a law to prevent and expel foreigners to mendling into HK domestic political affair.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> I agree with what you are saying.
> 
> But if China don't act and kick out all the groups I mentioned out of China, then the US will achieve its goal of halting China's progress through protest movements using these groups as you see in other countries.
> 
> US won't sanction China because the US economy and US multinationals depend on China for many things. By sanctioning China, the US destroys itself. So China must be smart and see that China holds all the cards here, not the US. US will scream but they can't do anything to China militarily or sanctions wise. China is far too big economically to the world to cut out China.



Exactly. Maybe it is time to take certain steps, like you mention in the above posts, such as:

1. Merging HK customs with that of the Mainland with the Mainland laws reining supreme. Giving all HK residents the passport of the mainland. Those who are unwilling would be stripped of citizenship and deported to the country of their liking.

2. Evicting all foreign NGOs as well as closing down the media with ties to foreign interests, including those related to TW.

3. Encouraging more Mainland investment and tourism into HK.

4. Closing down all diplomatic missions in HK (especially, US and HK), requesting them to relocate to other mainland cities.

5. Unify the education system with those of the Mainland.

I see the present talks as a last effort. If it fails, anticipate a more resolute action from Beijing.



DeVice said:


> HK government will pass a law to prevent and expel foreigners to mendling into HK domestic political affair.



Then I will be really thankful to the protesters.

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> Exactly. Maybe it is time to take certain steps, like you mention in the above posts, such as:
> 
> 1. Merging HK customs with that of the Mainland with the Mainland laws reining supreme. Giving all HK residents the passport of the mainland. Those who are unwilling would be stripped of citizenship and deported to the country of their liking.
> 
> 2. Evicting all foreign NGOs as well as closing down the media with ties to foreign interests, including those related to TW.
> 
> 3. Encouraging more Mainland investment and tourism into HK.
> 
> 4. Closing down all diplomatic missions in HK (especially, US and HK), requesting them to relocate to other mainland cities.
> 
> 5. Unify the education system with those of the Mainland.
> 
> I see the present talks as a last effort. If it fails, anticipate a more resolute action from Beijing.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank I will be really thankful to the protesters.



I agree with all 5 points. I think immigration should be controlled by Beijing and all HK residents should be given passports of the mainland.

Point 5 is important to make sure HK youth feel patriotic towards mainland China.

HK should not be treated as a special administrative region of China, it should be treated as a normal Chinese province.
Same should be done to Macau.

No need to appease the US or its puppets anymore.

Enough is enough.

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## SamDNguyen




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## TaiShang

SamDNguyen said:


>



Hi BoQ77. Long time, no see. Yet another fake account?


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## SamDNguyen

TaiShang said:


> Hi BoQ77. Long time, no see. Yet another fake account?


Wrong person bro. 

Did you enjoy the music video?


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## ChineseTiger1986

People in Hong Kong October 26 electrical illegal ” account in ” has lasted four weeks, Hong Kong and many roads are still occupied by protesters. All sectors of the public continue to be the signature of the way on the ” account ” on offense who express anger, expressed support for police enforcement. Despite the hacking and ” accounting ” on those nuisance, just a weekend for two days, ” but also the way to the people, to restore order and protect the rule of law ” to support the police big signature event has attracted 650,000 people attended, including on-site signature 550,000 the network signature 100,000. Signatures will be open until November 2.

HKSAR Chief Secretary for Administration, Mrs Carrie Lam, said today that she has been in the online signatures in support of “security accounts in the anti- election ” grand coalition launched a signature action. All Government political appointees, except for Justice is responsible for prosecutions outside, will be signed in support.

Signature action on the 25th night violent attacks by hackers, online signature platform can not run properly. Resume operation this morning, but still intermittent attacks, leading to the registered signature slow. Major League represents, IP addresses used by hackers to show in the United States and Europe. Attack did not penetrate inside the system, the public signature information has not been stolen. Alliance believes that similar despicable acts of brutal prejudice public freedom of speech, just to prove how weak the instigator rely conspiracy powerful means to respond to public opinion. In addition, Tai Wai rail stations and other on-site signature point, there are more than a dozen ” accounts of” who arrived interference.

Financial Secretary John Tsang said today blog, ” representing the ” who currently means, including occupation of roads, non-cooperation movement, contempt of court, etc. , and will definitely undermine the foundation of government operations and rule of law in Hong Kong. These damage once they come to Hong Kong’s new political paradigm, the impact will not be short-term, may cause long-term political instability.” The level of economic development, there is always ups and downs, even in the face of economic adversity in the past in Hong Kong, is still capable of turning anew, but efficient government and community-wide awareness of the rule of law, once destroyed, can repair, how to fix , you never know.”

University of Hong Kong Faculty of Law Professor Chen Hongyi on the 25th, “said accounting for the ” will of Hong Kong into the ” mutilation ” of the situation, worried by the gloom and doom of Hong Kong , and the history of the once glorious moment of cities decline.

(Original title : two days 650,000 Hong Kong citizens signatures against ” account in ” during which suffered hacker attacks)

Two days 650,000 signatures in Hong Kong accounted for in the meantime suffered anti- hacking | EN NEWS 163

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## TaiShang

Anti Occupy Central residents call for return of law in HK

Organizers say this is just the start of a series of campaigns they plan to hold against the prolonged occupation of the streets, and say people are justified to ask for their roads and their freedoms back and for the return of law in Hong Kong.

The signature campaign is just one of the many programs organized to show the resentment over the prolonged occupation.

***
Meanwhile...

Gloria Tang Tsz-kei, better known by her stage name G.E.M., *is a Hong Kong singer-songwriter, dancer, musician, and actress.* She will be the first Chinese star to sing in outer space. After hours of theoretical training,* she has finally changed into her space suit and is ready to fly. She poses for some photos wearing a space suit and with Chinese flag on her left arm, which got high praise from netizens.* [Photo/Weibo]

​

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## Raphael

Hong Kong's loud American defies pro-Beijing 'smear campaign'| Top News| Reuters

HONG KONG (Reuters) - China has often accused "foreign forces" of trying to destabilize free-wheeling Hong Kong during the current pro-democracy protests, with a garrulous expat American emerging as a key target of attack.

Mark Simon, the right-hand man of pro-democracy newspaper magnate Jimmy Lai, has moved his family out of Hong Kong for safety and has been pressed to deny that he is a U.S. spy.

But, in interviews with Reuters, Simon insists he will not let a "relentless smear campaign" force him out of his home in the Asian financial hub and he still has plenty of stomach for the fight.

Large, loud and avowedly Republican, the 50-year-old has been portrayed across pro-Beijing media as a CIA agent - a charge also thrown at student protest leader Joshua Wong and an independent academic pollster, Robert Chung.

He's also a proud Catholic - something that links him to Lai and many other prominent figures in the Hong Kong democracy struggle.

Simon described Lai as an instinctive backer of underdogs rather than an "egotist" who believes that he will single-handedly change China.

"Jimmy's instinct is to size up the weak, and to size up the strong, and then instinctively protect the weak," he said.

"We are Hong Kong guys and we are Catholics."

The former British colony of Hong Kong, which returned to Chinese rule in 1997, has witnessed a month of protests calling on the Beijing-backed government to keep its promise of introducing universal suffrage.

The protests have for the most part been peaceful, with occasional clashes between the student-led protesters and Beijing supporters seeking to move them from the streets. China has expressed dissatisfaction about what it sees as foreign interference in an internal issue.

Hong Kong leader Leung Chun-ying recently echoed Beijing's concerns that foreign forces were behind the protests, but said the time was not right to reveal the government's evidence.

"I DON'T LIKE BULLIES"

Simon, who stands a broad and heavy-set 1.9 meters, said he was unafraid about staying in Hong Kong. But he said that after his address was published on-line he felt it wise to send his wife and two children back to the United States, unsure of what "nut-jobs" would be willing to do to impress Communist Party leaders in Beijing.

"I have a good job, I have a great boss, I have huge responsibilities and I am not going to let a bunch of jackass commies impose things on me," Simon said.

"I just don't like bullies acting like this... If I was 25 years younger I would be walking in these guys' bars looking for them."

Earlier this year, hundreds of emails and documents were stolen in a hacking attack on Lai's Next Media operation, some of them detailing the magnate's extensive, and well known, funding of Hong Kong's democratic activists.

They were then leaked en masse to Hong Kong media, including pro-Beijing mouthpiece papers that have focused on Simon's alleged role.

Hong Kong's anti-corruption force, the Independent Commission Against Corruption, is also investigating after public complaints over specific funding to lawmakers. Both Simon's and Lai's homes have been searched.

Simon has been in Hong Kong since the early 1990s and has worked with Lai since 2000, working earlier on media and on-line projects and more recently helping manage his extensive non-media investments.

Of his portrayal in pro-Beijing media as an "international man of mystery", Simon links the allegations against him back to his four years as a young civilian in the U.S. Navy as an intelligence analyst scrutinizing submarine developments.

He has also made no secret of his Republican activism, or his extensive contacts in the U.S. Congress, some of whom he meets during visits to Hong Kong.

"You've got 20 percent of America that thinks Barack Obama is not a U.S. citizen, OK, and in a place like Hong Kong you've got 30 percent of people who believe all this CIA stuff," he said.

He believes the U.S. government has no interest in meddling in Hong Kong but merely wants it to remain stable. And he doesn't believe China really thinks of him as a menace.

"If they really thought I was causing trouble, I wouldn't be here," he said. "They would have nailed me to the wall."

------------------------------------------------------------------

So after an entire article of fawning coverage of this 'democracy teddy-bear', Reuters finally concedes near the end that this teddy-bear was employed as an intelligence analyst for the US Navy, is closely connected to figures in the US congress, and is a partisan Republican.

What they conveniently neglected to mention is that Simon isn't even the most odious of Lai's associates. Lai is on intimate terms with Paul Wolfowitz, who helped him bribe the Myanmar Junta's leaders:

Former U.S. Officials Cash In on Myanmar

For those don't know, Wolfowitz is an arch-neocon, and the architect of the US invasion of Iraq. He orchestrated the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians.

I wonder is there is any limit to the depravity of Lai and other color revolution puppetmasters? Where does the rabbit hole end?

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## Huan

China should do without these Hong Konger catholics for inciting disloyalty to the motherland. Deport them off Chinese land.

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## Jlaw

Huan said:


> China should do without these Hong Konger catholics for inciting disloyalty to the motherland. Deport them off Chinese land.


The proper way is to have a Chinese version of 'Waco' incident. To make Christianity religion appear as a violent religion such as Islam. Staged timely violence is key.

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## AgentOrange

There's no need to do anything, really. The damage has been done - the implication that this fat foreigner is a spy is as good as actual proof. Smear campaign or no. The longer Simon is seen associating with Jimmy Lai, the more Lai and, by extension, the "democracy movement" loses credibility.

It seems Chinese PR has been paying attention to Western PR tactics after all. When it comes to smear campaigns and false accusations, China has learned from the best. And in the interests of journalistic integrity, China can publish a weakly worded retraction 2 years from now on page 25 of the Apple Daily, right after the news story about how a pigeon pooped on a picture of the Queen of England.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Why would we kill his family?

We are patriots, not savages.

His family shouldn't have to pay for his mistakes.

This fei lo can do that himself.

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## gambit

Jlaw said:


> The proper way is to have a Chinese version of 'Waco' incident. To make Christianity religion appear as a violent religion such as Islam. Staged timely violence is key.


I agree. I hope the Chinese government will act exactly the way you want. Blood is the only way.

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## Kolaps

> "I have a good job, I have a great boss, I have huge responsibilities and I am not going to let a bunch of jackass commies impose things on me," Simon said.



Jackass Commies???

Mark Simon is more Pentagon NAZI than what you think.

That explain why so many anti-Chinese and White-worshiping narrative in HK media.

Free press is not about fooling the people, create hatred among human being and selling out the country.




> "We are Hong Kong guys and we are Catholics."



Sorry, Mark Simon, but you are in HK.

Imagine if you are saying, we are Islamists and Communists in USA.

HK people is not as stupid as you are!




> "I just don't like bullies acting like this... If I was 25 years younger I would be walking in these guys' bars looking for them."



I wonder... why does BULLY word suddenly came into his head?

Too many writing China bully and Beijing bully articles I think.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Sei fei lo. 

(Si fei lao if you speak Mandarin).

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## Jlaw

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Sei fei lo.
> 
> (Si fei lao if you speak Mandarin).



You're lucky he is not 25 years old or he will go bar hopping and find you!

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## Chinese-Dragon

Jlaw said:


> You're lucky he is not 25 years old or he will go bar hopping and find you!



Bar hopping in Hong Kong, I do that all the time. In Wan Chai and Lan Kwai Fong.

He can meet us there any time.

And he runs into a Triad he is going to piss all over the floor in fear.  He looks like the kind of guy who would literally cry before a fight. 

He'd probably get killed by accident, even in a casual punch up.

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## Jlaw

And you know that he is American Jew.


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## TaiShang

*1 million sign petition supporting HK police force*

The Alliance for Peace and Democracy says more than one million people in Hong Kong have signed a petition to support the local police force and to ask protesters to end their occupation of city roads. Robert Chow, a spokesman for the anti-Occupy alliance, said it was the group’s second attempt at gathering public opinion, and it seemed to be gaining momentum. 

*"It took us two weeks to collect 1 million signatures against "Occupy Central" last time. This time it only took four days.* This really is on behalf of the Hong Kong people. They really don’t want the occupation any more. They really want to restore normal life in Hong Kong as soon as possible. I think most of the people already expressed what they want. Democracy means minorities respecting the majority. That is the most important meaning in democracy. Now one out of seven Hong Kong people are standing up. The protesters should take a listen. The occupation has lasted more than 30 days. It is unacceptable to drag it on for 30 weeks. Hong Kong people have been suffering severely. So I think the Hong Kong Government should solve this problem now," Chow said.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Sei fei lo.
> 
> (Si fei lao if you speak Mandarin).



This guy is a fat disgrace, for sure, but, is a nice tool to be used to further de-legitimize the protesters. Hence, I would like him to speak up more, and more aggressively, and talk like a bully, as if one invites him to a street fight fresh out of a bar. 

He does a great job, and, if did not know his clear US-spy credentials, I would think he worked for the Chinese government. 

At the end of the day, I would love to see him in jail, however, and test the size of his "big" ego in real life. I bet he would be someone's manita in no time.

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## Chinese-Dragon

TaiShang said:


> This guy is a fat disgrace, for sure, but, is a nice tool to be used to further de-legitimize the protesters. *Hence, I would like him to speak up more, and more aggressively, and talk like a bully, as if one invites him to a street fight fresh out of a bar.*



The problem is if he really went bar hopping "looking for bullies" in Wan Chai and Lan Kwai Fong, he would actually end up killed, chopped to pieces in multiple sealed bin bags, and dropped into the harbor.

Or they'll find his head in a freezer somewhere.

And that won't be good PR for our cause, even though he found exactly what he was looking for.

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## TaiShang

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The problem is if he really went bar hopping "looking for bullies" in Wan Chai and Lan Kwai Fong, he would actually end up killed, chopped to pieces in multiple sealed bin bags, and dropped into the harbor.
> 
> Or they'll find his head in a freezer somewhere.
> 
> And that won't be good PR for our cause, even though he found exactly what he was looking for.



These Westerner take it for granted that they can easily bully others in their own countries and get out of it nice and clean.

This they learned throughout their glorious 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. They could lecture, educate, dictate upon and even insult people in their home, and be still respected (feared).

Gone are the days and that particularly puts this guy and the like in danger.

He better not mess with the people and the government; he is in China, and China does not give a damn what others may say. He seems to trust his big boss in the US and the SOWs in HK, but, their time is up very soon with their glorious revolution in the dustbin, then, Beijing will knock on his doors, if it has not done already.

One thing must urgently be done: Unify HK immigration policy with the Mainland.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Jlaw said:


> The proper way is to have a Chinese version of 'Waco' incident. *To make Christianity religion appear as a violent religion such as Islam*. Staged timely violence is key.



Wasn't one Taiping rebellion sufficient?


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## Chinese-Dragon

TaiShang said:


> These Westerner take it for granted that they can easily bully others in their own countries and get out of it nice and clean.
> 
> This they learned throughout their glorious 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. They could lecture, educate, dictate upon and even insult people in their home, and be still respected (feared).
> 
> Gone are the days and that particularly puts this guy and the like in danger.
> 
> He better not mess with the people and the government; he is in China, and China does not give a damn what others may say. He seems to trust his big boss in the US and the SOWs in HK, but, their time is up very soon with their glorious revolution in the dustbin, then, Beijing will knock on his doors, if it has not done already.
> 
> One thing must urgently be done: Unify HK immigration policy with the Mainland.



Basically they are afraid of the Mainland government, so they come to Hong Kong since they think we are more lenient.

Such a shame, f*cking fei lo like this are too cowardly to go to the Mainland and spout crap.

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## AgentOrange

Jlaw said:


> You're lucky he is not 25 years old or he will go bar hopping and find you!



If he found you, he'd eat everything in your kitchen.

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## Raphael

AgentOrange said:


> If he found you, he'd eat everything in your kitchen.



Forget your kitchen, he would eat you up whole. This cannibal is a devout papist. He probably thinks he's eating the "body of Christ".

China made a good decision in sharply curtailing the activities of that flesh-eating cult on the mainland. They are a serious menace to the public safety, no less threatening than ISIS. The right thing to do is to snatch their own rosary beads and choke the life out of them.

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## AgentOrange

Raphael said:


> Forget your kitchen, he would eat you up whole. This cannibal is a devout papist. He probably thinks he's eating the "body of Christ".
> 
> China made a good decision in sharply curtailing the activities of that flesh-eating cult on the mainland. They are a serious menace to the public safety, no less threatening than ISIS. The right thing to do is to snatch their own rosary beads and choke the life out of them.



Mark Simon doesn't know who you are. Or what you taste like. But Mark Simon has a particular set of skills. Skills acquired over a long career of eating swiss chocolate. Skills that make him a nightmare for people who have to sit next to him on a plane. If you let him eat lunch now, that will be the end of it. He will not look for more food, he will not pursue the ice cream truck. But if you don't, he will look for you, he will find you and *he will eat you*.

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## Keel

Pic taken from his chilhood?





This pig is clogging up 90% of his arteries now
Give him more of these so as to fast forwarding him on the lane of eating-to-death

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## kawaraj

what a formular called" fatty lazy Americans "

they ruin the United States of America and they ruin the whole world.

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## mike2000

kawaraj said:


> what a formular called" fatty lazy Americans "
> 
> they ruin the United States of America and they ruin the whole world.




Lool


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## Beidou2020

Don't blame this guy, blame the people that allowed him in and his kind in Chinese territory.

This is a complete failure of Chinese intelligence and Chinese government policy.

Maybe Beijing will stop being so timid to everyone in the world and getting trampled on by every Tom, D*ck and Harry.

It is China that allowed such activities to flourish in its territory. 

Enemies are everywhere but that's why you have an intelligence agency to stop this kind of activity.

Don't blame others for CPC failure.


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## Kolaps

kawaraj said:


>



FATlicious!


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## Jlaw

Beidou2020 said:


> Don't blame this guy, blame the people that allowed him in and his kind in Chinese territory.
> 
> This is a complete failure of Chinese intelligence and Chinese government policy.
> 
> Maybe Beijing will stop being so timid to everyone in the world and getting trampled on by every Tom, D*ck and Harry.
> 
> It is China that allowed such activities to flourish in its territory.
> 
> Enemies are everywhere but that's why you have an intelligence agency to stop this kind of activity.
> 
> Don't blame others for CPC failure.



You are partially correct. My opinion is that since opening up China wanted to attract FDI thus there were concessions that needed to be made. Perhaps some of these were allowing foreign news correspondance to operate in the mainland eventually leading to more spy activities. 

Now FDI and export reliance is not as important as before so I think you will see more counter spy activities in China soon.

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## Speeder 2

HK = Ukraine Orange Revolution 2.0?


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## BoQ77

*Taiwan Leader Stresses Support for Hong Kong Protests*
By KEITH BRADSHER and AUSTIN RAMZYOCT. 31, 2014


Photo
View attachment 139471


President Ma Ying-jeou of Taiwan at the presidential palace in Taipei on Friday. Credit Lam Yik Fei for The New York Times

TAIPEI, Taiwan — President Ma Ying-jeou of Taiwan risked antagonizing Beijing on Friday by voicing support for protesters in Hong Kong and for greater democracy in mainland China even as he sought further free-trade agreements with the mainland.

“If mainland China can practice democracy in Hong Kong, or if mainland China itself can become more democratic, then we can shorten the psychological distance between people from the two sides of the Taiwan Strait,” Mr. Ma said in an interview at the presidential palace here.

The president’s public pronouncements on the Hong Kong protests — he also expressed support for them in a televised speech on Taiwan’s National Day, Oct. 10 — show a greater willingness lately to speak out on a delicate issue for the Chinese leadership. But Mr. Ma was quick to point out that he had issued an annual statement to mourn the Tiananmen Square crackdown in 1989, and that China had not made those statements an obstacle to improving relations.

“I think our support of Hong Kong’s democracy will not be at the expense of cross-strait relations,” he said.

Mr. Ma drew a distinction between his support for the protests in Hong Kong and his condemnation of student protests in Taipei last spring that indefinitely delayed one of his free-trade agreements with the mainland.

He suggested that the protests in Taiwan, involving the temporary seizing of the legislature and the main government office building, had been more violent than the demonstrations in Hong Kong, where the authorities contend that protesters had kicked police officers and poked them with umbrellas.“There is absolutely no contradiction, as I support democracy but oppose violence,” Mr. Ma said.

Mr. Ma repeatedly signaled the delicate balancing act he must strike as the leader of a longtime American ally that has more trade with mainland China than anywhere else, and which has long been viewed by Beijing as a province that must be eventually brought under its control.

In recent weeks, China’s president, Xi Jinping, has taken a somewhat tougher stance toward Taiwan, suggesting it adopt a relationship to China similar to Hong Kong’s “one country, two systems” model. Mr. Ma on Friday roundly rejected that idea.

Mr. Ma expressed a desire for Taiwan to play a more visible role in preserving peace in the South China Sea and the East China Sea, even while chafing at the fact that the mainland authorities had not invited him to the coming Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation summit meeting in Beijing.

“The mainland side is a bit overly concerned, so it’s a pity that a meeting at APEC cannot take place,” he said.

Taiwan has diplomatic relations with only 22 countries — mostly small ones in the Caribbean, Central America, Africa and the Pacific, plus the Vatican. The lack of diplomatic relations has made it harder for Taiwan to negotiate trade pacts.

As Taiwan has pursued closer cross-strait ties under Mr. Ma, some in the United States and among Taiwan’s opposition Democratic Progressive Party have questioned whether it is investing enough in its defense against the potential threat from China.

Hsiao Bi-khim, the opposition whip in Taiwan’s legislature, said Thursday that a new defense budget approved the day before called for such a slight increase next year that military spending as a share of Taiwan’s economic output would decline.

“When you look at their defensive expenditures over the last 20 years, I personally am not very impressed with the fact that they take the military threat from the mainland very seriously,” said Bernard D. Cole, a professor at the National War College in Washington.

Mr. Ma reiterated Taiwan’s recent desire to begin building new submarines to bolster its current fleet of four aging vessels, including one that is 70 years old. He said that Taiwan would like to acquire submarine technology from the United States, but it has not submitted a formal request.

The United States, which is obligated to help Taiwan procure weapons for its defense under the Taiwan Relations Act, agreed in 2001 to help the island acquire diesel-powered submarines. But the United States has long since stopped making such submarines, and Chinese pressure on other possible providers has forced Taiwan to consider building its own.

Asked which of two visions of free trade in Asia he preferred — the American-led Trans-Pacific Partnership or the Chinese-backed Free Trade Agreement of the Asia Pacific — Mr. Ma briefly switched from Chinese to English to say with emphasis, “Both, we want both.”

After switching back to Chinese, he went on to praise the value of the American plan and also the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, a Southeast Asian plan, without saying anything further about the Chinese proposal.

Mr. Ma criticized the United States’ insistence that negotiations for a bilateral investment agreement not begin until Taiwan allows imports of American pork containing ractopamine, an additive that Taiwan, the European Union and mainland China ban. The additive, which helps produce leaner meat, is widely used by hog producers in the United States, a top pork exporter.

In a written reply to questions, the Office of the United States Trade Representative said only, “We continue to urge Taiwan to adopt international standards for use of ractopamine in pork, since the meat is safe for human consumption.”

*Hong Kong activists mull taking protest to Beijing*


*POSTED:* 31 Oct 2014 12:32
*UPDATED:* 31 Oct 2014 16:06

* Protesters are apparently considering whether to attempt to crash the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum in Beijing, where Chinese President Xi Jinping will host world leaders.*
View attachment 139474

People walk through the pro-democracy protester camp site in the Admiralty district of Hong Kong on Oct 29, 2014. (Photo: AFP/Nicolas Asfouri)


HONG KONG: Democracy protesters in Hong Kong are considering travelling to Beijing to directly petition Communist authorities as the Chinese capital hosts US President Barack Obama and other world leaders at an upcoming summit. The protesters have held continuous street rallies for a month, demanding free leadership elections for the semi-autonomous city in 2017.

Beijing has refused to back down on its insistence made on Aug 31 that candidates in the vote must be vetted by a loyalist committee, a decision critics said is designed to ensure the election of a pro-Beijing stooge.

Alex Chow, head of Hong Kong's main student union which has been at the vanguard of the protests, said demonstrators were considering upping the ante by attempting to travel to Beijing and press authorities for direct talks. "We should tell the world and the government that the decision made on Aug 31 must be rescinded," Chow told demonstrators at the main protest site late Thursday, urging them to think about "directly approaching Beijing".

Protesters are apparently considering whether to attempt to crash the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum in Beijing on Nov 10 to 11, when Chinese President Xi Jinping will host leaders from the United States, Russia and Japan among others. But it is not clear whether student leaders, who have become well known through their speeches and media appearances, would be allowed to travel to the capital.

Hong Kong citizens may travel freely into China as long as they have travel permits issued by mainland authorities, but border officials can deny their entry - a tactic that has been used to keep critics of Beijing out in the past. "If we can't go through customs then Beijing is sending a message that they do not care about Hong Kongers' views about the NPC (National People's Congress) decision and the direction of constitutional development," Chow said.

Demonstrators remain encamped on three of Hong Kong's major thoroughfares, but are under pressure to keep up the momentum in their campaign. The crowds, which numbered in their tens of thousands at the beginning of the month, have sharply dwindled. Hong Kong's authorities appear to be pursuing a strategy of attempting to tire them out, rather than clearing them by force.

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## TaiShang

Mmm, somebody is back in full force!

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## Keel

*Over 1 mln HK people sign up to support police*
Xinhua, October 30, 2014

More than one million people in Hong Kong have signed a petition to support Hong Kong police force, announced the Alliance for Peace and Democracy on Wednesday.



Over 1 mln HK people sign up to support police

Robert Chow, spokesman of the alliance said the movement aims at collecting public opinion and demanding the Occupy Central protesters to return the roads to people, resume order and maintain rule of law.

The alliance said it had collected 1,097,176 signatures as of 7 p.m. on Oct. 29, of which 268,144 came from online and 829,032 from street stations.

"This proves that more and more Hong Kong people have begun to fight against the Occupy Central," said Robert Chow.

The Alliance for Peace and Democracy started the movement to collect signatures from Hong Kong citizens on Oct. 25, in order to support police's law enforcement efforts, and to resume social order. The movement will last 9 days.

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## cnleio

How the show END ?！

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## terranMarine

A 29-year-old British man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the deaths of two women in Hong Kong.

Police found the victims in an apartment block in the Wan Chai district after a call from the man at 03:42am on Saturday (19:42 GMT).

One woman, aged 25 to 30, had stab wounds to her neck and buttock and was pronounced dead at the scene.

The body of a second woman, who had neck injuries, was found inside a suitcase on the balcony.

'Top-tier bank'
Hong Kong Police said they had detained the man and retrieved a knife from the apartment, in the J Residence block.

Assistant district commander Wan Siu-hung told reporters the woman whose body was in the suitcase had been dead "for quite some time".

The South China Morning Post reported that the man worked for a "top-tier global bank" and that the two women, of Asian or South East Asian origin, were believed to be "sex workers".

A resident of the 40-storey block, who said his fellow occupants were mainly expats, told the newspaper: "It was a shock because you would never expect something like this to happen in Hong Kong."

A spokesperson for the UK Foreign Office said: "We can confirm that a British national has been arrested in Hong Kong.

"We are in touch with the local police and stand ready to provide consular assistance."

Post-mortem examinations are being conducted to determine the causes of the women's deaths.

 British banker turned out to be a killer

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## cnleio

The good thing is HongKong no death sentence, the bad thing is the guy will stay in HongKong jail until to the death, after 1997 can't back to Britain.


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## terranMarine

cnleio said:


> The good thing is HongKong no death sentence, the bad thing is the guy will stay in HongKong jail until to the death, after 1997 can't back to Britain.


waisting taxpayers' money

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## alaungphaya

Apparently his name was 'Rurik George Caton Jutting'  An old Etonian toff name if ever there was one.

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## Raphael

*British banker Rurik Jutting suspected of 'American Psycho' killings in Hong Kong *

A British man has been charged with the murder of two women who were found naked inside his luxury Hong Kong apartment.


Rurik George Caton Jutting, 29, who had been suspected of being behind the horrific American Psycho-style killings of two Asian women in* Hong Kong *is a 29-year-old Cambridge University graduate.


He was arrested in the early hours of Saturday after the bodies of two women, reported by local media to be sex workers, were found by police in his 31st floor apartment in the former British colony.


Mr Jutting, who is an employee of Bank of America Merril Lynch, apparently vanished from his place of work around a week ago, a co-worker told The Telegraph. The South China Morning Post reported that he had recently resigned.


Police found the two dead women, thought to be a 25-year-old from Indonesia and a 30-year-old from the Philippines, at Mr Jutting's apartment in Hong Kong's Wan Chai district at around 3.45am on Saturday.


On Sunday night the South China Morning Post said police had identified the Indonesian victim as 25-year-old Sumarti Ningsih.

The woman arrived in the former British colony last month on a tourist visa, the newspaper said. She was identified with the help of an Indonesian cousin who works in Hong Kong as a maid.

The second victim, who local media said was from the Philippines, worked as a "part-time disc jockey in a pub," the South China Morning Post added.

Police believe Ningsih, who was reportedly found naked, partially decapitated and inside a suitcase on Mr Jutting's balcony, had been dead for up to five days. Her body was in an advanced state of decomposition and one neighbour in the J Residence building said he had noticed "a stink in the building like a dead animal".

The Filipina victim had sustained multiple stab wounds and was found lying on the floor inside the £3,000-a-month flat.

Mr Jutting, who studied history and law at Cambridge University and was a member of its rowing club, was seen returning to his flat in the company of a scantily-clad woman at just after midnight on Friday night, Hong Kong's Mingpao newspaper claimed.

At 3.42am the British banker allegedly called the police. They arrived a short while later and took him into custody, the newspaper added.

Forensic teams also reportedly found sex toys, a small quantity of cocaine and a smartphone that belonged to Mr Jutting at the apartment.

"Police are investigating whether there are more victims," a police source told the South China Morning Post on Sunday.

Takungpao, another local newspaper, said police were also investigating the possibility of a second suspect.

The reported crime scene recalled Bret Easton Ellis' book "American Psycho" where numerous barbaric crimes occur in the apartment of a Wall Street investment banker.

Wan Chai, where Mr Jutting lived, is a skyscraper-packed neighbourhood on Hong Kong island that is popular among affluent young expats and is also home to a notorious red light district.

"He always seemed so sad - he never said hello to any of us or smiled," said an employee at Mr Jutting's building, who said he had seen the British man being taken away by police at around 4am on Saturday.

"I can't say any more because of security," added the employee - who declined to be named but works at the building, which is just two blocks from Wan Chai's main drag of strip clubs and prostitution houses.

Police investigators were visiting Wan Chai's pubs and vice dens on Sunday in an attempt to piece together the lives of the two women, the South China Morning Post said.

Mr Jutting studied at Winchester College, an independent boys school in Hampshire, before continuing his studies at Cambridge University where he became secretary of the history society.

He appears to have worked for Barclays in London between 2008 and 2010 before moving to the United States to work for Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

The company seconded him to Hong Kong in the summer of 2013. His last known address in the UK was in Wapping.

Prior to his arrest, Mr Jutting had been in a relationship with an Asian woman called "Yanie", according to posts on his Facebook page. A message posted on the social network read: "Money does buy happiness".

One co-worker at the Bank of America Merrill Lynch in Hong Kong, who declined to be named, described Mr Jutting as someone who "talked very loud and made ---- loads of money".

Another employee said Mr Jutting was known for his brains and his salary.

"He's very smart," said the employee, who declined to be named. "The money he is making is as much as an MD [managing director]. He does business in multiple areas."

Mr Jutting’s parents, Graham, 53, and Helen, 52, live in a large red brick gothic-style property at the bottom of a country lane on the outskirts of the smart commuter town of Cobham, Surrey.

A man, thought to be Mr Jutting's father, looked shattered as he told reporters on Sunday morning: "Please respect our privacy".

Set behind security gates, the property is in a secluded spot surrounded by woodland. The family moved there in 2002 from nearby Chertsey.

Mr Jutting’s father is an engineer and his mother, a teacher, runs Tumble Tots classes for toddlers in Surrey.

The couple are keen beekeepers. They have one other son, Auryn, 27, who attended Oxford Brookes University and is believed to live in Brighton.




alaungphaya said:


> Apparently his name was 'Rurik George Caton Jutting'  An old Etonian toff name if ever there was one.



Close enough. Winchester College --> Cambridge.

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## bolo

Hong kong should allow more expats, lol


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## Chinese-Dragon

Raphael said:


> *Police found the two dead women, thought to be a 25-year-old from Indonesia and a 30-year-old from the Philippines, at Mr Jutting's apartment in Hong Kong's Wan Chai district at around 3.45am on Saturday.*



Both victims are Southeast Asians (Filipino and Indonesian).

It's very rare to find local Chinese doing that kind of work in Hong Kong.


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## cnleio

In China the CCTV cameras all around on streets & inside buildings, it's too easy to find out the murder ... stupid doing killing in China, China has the most cameras on this world, records in Harddisk.

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## cnleio

Welcome to China, wherever u go Eyes behind u

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> "It was a shock because you would never expect something like this to happen in Hong Kong."



I guess it was not a shock. This stuff happens in the Philippines, Okinawa and other places where these sort of individuals run amok with limited oversight.



cnleio said:


> The good thing is HongKong no death sentence, the bad thing is the guy will stay in HongKong jail until to the death, after 1997 can't back to Britain.



Bad thing HK has no death sentence for this particular individual (if found guilty by a jury), and another bad thing, HK will have to feed this person until he dies of natural causes (probably includes injuries incurred from being someone's el-manita).



bolo said:


> Hong kong should allow more expats, lol



This comment is rather harsh and unwelcome, and no laughing matter, to be honest. No person deserves to die in the hands of a maniac. Just consider the socio-economic/political conditions that might have put those unfortunate women in that sort of business/trade out of their own will?

I anticipate the harshest possible sentence to this particular convict and condolences on the victims' families and loved ones.



cnleio said:


> China, China has the most cameras on this world, records in Harddisk.



Taiwan is pretty much a CCTV nation, as well. In some quarters, it just gets crazy. But it is a good thing; overdoing security is better than under-doing it. I had, however, many Western classmates who were complaining about the cameras all around the campus.

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## Hiptullha

cnleio said:


> Welcome to China, wherever u go Eyes behind u
> 
> View attachment 142834
> View attachment 142805
> View attachment 142806
> View attachment 142807
> View attachment 142808
> View attachment 142817
> View attachment 142818
> View attachment 142822
> View attachment 142825
> View attachment 142833



Amazing.
Only 50 cent propagandists would be praising this sort of stuff.


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## cnleio

Hiptullha said:


> Amazing.
> Only 50 cent propagandists would be praising this sort of stuff.


U like more guns in ur homeland or more cameras ? a simple question.

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## TaiShang

cnleio said:


> Welcome to China, wherever u go Eyes behind u
> 
> View attachment 142834
> View attachment 142805
> View attachment 142806
> View attachment 142807
> View attachment 142808
> View attachment 142817
> View attachment 142818
> View attachment 142822
> View attachment 142825
> View attachment 142833



God bless China for this great job. Just put more of this high-tech stuff at every public domain in order to ensure maximum security of the citizen.

I do not care my public life are being constantly monitored so long as it applies to everybody in the public domain.

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## terranMarine

Hong Kong murders: Police 'investigate thousands of images of dead bodies on Rurik Jutting's phone' - Telegraph

pretty sick Briton having > 1000 photos of dead bodies on his phone


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## Hiptullha

cnleio said:


> U like more guns in ur homeland or more cameras ? a simple question.



Neither.



TaiShang said:


> I do not care my public life are being constantly monitored so long as it applies to everybody in the public domain.



Good luck bringing any sort of change to the system when it turns on you.


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## cnleio

Hiptullha said:


> Neither.
> 
> Good luck bringing any sort of change to the system when it turns on you.


Here is a data ... more CCTV cameras and less police on streets, society security is better. 

List of countries by number of police officers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia









List of countries by intentional homicide rate - wiki

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## terranMarine

Is our Pakistan friend here criticizing China for deploying CCTV cameras in our own country?

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## bobsm

Hiptullha said:


> View attachment 142844



UK, the world’s most surveilled state, begins using automated face recognition to catch criminals | ExtremeTech

good for the Brits.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Hiptullha said:


> Amazing.
> Only 50 cent propagandists would be praising this sort of stuff.
> View attachment 142844



Have you actually read Nineteen Eighty-four by George Orwell?

I did, it is one of my favorite books.

And having lived in China for most of my life, there is really zero comparison. The world of Nineteen Eighty-four is stuck in a time warp, there is no technological progress, because there is no need for technological progress. If anything, technology in the world of Nineteen Eighty-four is going backwards.

And the world of Nineteen Eighty-four is in a constant state of "eternal war" between the 3 major world factions, who are in fact the same thing at the core.

Not to mention, the cameras in Nineteen Eighty-four are in people's houses. Whereas places like London (the most CCTV's per capita in the world) or in places like China, the security cameras are all in public spaces, where nothing you do is private anyway.

Who would be afraid of that, except criminals?

P.S. Guess how the Boston bombers were caught in America? You guessed right, CCTV. Without that they would still be at large, maybe still carrying out bombings (they certainly had the equipment to continue).

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## Chronos

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Have you actually read Nineteen Eighty-four by George Orwell?
> 
> I did, it is one of my favorite books.
> 
> And having lived in China for most of my life, there is really zero comparison. The world of Nineteen Eighty-four is stuck in a time warp, there is no technological progress, because there is no need for technological progress. If anything, technology in the world of Nineteen Eighty-four is going backwards.
> 
> And the world of Nineteen Eighty-four is in a constant state of "eternal war" between the 3 major world factions, who are in fact the same thing at the core.
> 
> Not to mention, the cameras in Nineteen Eighty-four are in people's houses. Whereas places like London (the most CCTV's per capita in the world) or in places like China, the security cameras are all in public spaces, where nothing you do is private anyway.
> 
> Who would be afraid of that, except criminals?



as an aside, sort of getting tired of the British attitude towards the 'johnny foreigner.' 

Most folks are fine, But I guess some didn't get the memo the Queen isn't the Empress anymore.

And no, I am not grateful for the railways and other systems the benign dictators brought to my homeland.

It was truly hilarious reading the British posts on the Hong Kong protests. 

The majority are pleasant folk, and there is nothing like British literature and comedy. God bless the queen indeed.

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## TaiShang

*Over 1.5 mln sign petition against Occupy Central*

In Hong Kong,* the anti-Occupy Central group, Alliance for Peace and Democracy, says it has collected over 1.5 million signatures as of Saturday.*

Their petition aims to support the police and calls for an end to the occupation of Hong Kong's roads. As violence has erupted constantly over the last month and shadowed the stability and public security, many Hong Kong residents showed up on Saturday to say "No" to Occupy Central.

The anti-Occupy Central group says that with roads occupied in central business districts like Causeway Bay, Central and Mong Kok, retailers and banks in such areas have suffered huge economic losses.

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## TaiShang

*Source of over 200 million HKD supplies unclear*






*Roughly 80% of supplies used by protesters in the Occupy Central movement are unknown, according to statistics from the Hong Kong Environmental Protection Association (HKEPA).*

The continuing protests in the city have consumed over *250 million HKD (32.3 million USD) worth of supplies* within a month. *While the public donated one fifth, the source of the rest – over 200 million HKD (25.8 million USD) – was not clear according to the association.*

The HKEPA document questioned the origin of unknown supplies. But, so far, no evidence of major foreign backing has been revealed.

The report also pointed to the growing waste in the occupied areas as a significant environmental problem for the city.

***

Where in the world did they get over 30million USD? That's insane!

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## Kolaps

Look at the boat... *HK Extreme Poverty*!


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## BoQ77

need for democracy is always true, no matter how they make up about the protesters.


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## BoQ77

*As You Watch Hong Kong, Remember Wukan*
The outcome of Hong Kong’s Umbrella Revolution is more likely to resemble Wukan than Tiananmen.





By Ankit Panda

As the world watches current events in Hong Kong, there is a tendency to regard the situation with dread, fearing a repeat of the tragedy of Tiananmen Square, 1989, when — on Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping’s orders — soldiers massacred peaceful demonstrators calling for democracy in China.

On the one hand, this makes sense seeing as how June 4, 1989 is etched in history as the most famous example of the Chinese Communist Party violently repressing calls for democracy within its borders. Additionally, given that a) Hong Kong represents the single largest challenge to CCP authority since Tiananmen, and b) the Party tends to prefer force over dialogue in resolving “mass incidents,” it isn’t unreasonable to expect the use of force in some form. At the same time, naysayers point out that the current Party leadership couldn’t stomach the sort of international alienation that was a result of violently cracking down in 1989 — doing the same in Hong Kong today would be far worse, not least because Hong Kong is crawling with foreign press and China is significantly more connected to the global economy in 2014 than it was in 1989.

However, despite its allure, Tiananmen isn’t the only model for understanding how the CCP deals with dissent and protest. Another more recent and compelling model is the manner in which the Party dealt with the 2011 protests in Wukan. In trying to understand Hong Kong’s near-future with lessons from China’s recent past, it’s almost certainly more useful to reflect on Wukan than on Tiananmen.

Back in 2011, a small fishing village in China’s Guangdong province with just some 20,000 residents grew fed up with the local government when town officials unilaterally agreed to sell a local farm to a developer for well below market price. This decision by the local government was effectively the straw that broke the camel’s back — similar to the National People’s Congress decision to alter the terms of Hong Kong’s universal suffrage provisions. The rest is history: hundreds of Wukan residents peacefully protested against the local government by staging sit-ins and chanting slogans calling for a greater say in their village’s affairs.

What was notable about Wukan was that the CCP chose to resolve the dispute not with tanks, but with meaningful Party intervention and negotiation. What was ultimately remarkable was that following the intervention of Wang Yang, who was then the governor of Guangdong province where Wukan is located, the village was ultimately allowed to stage municipal elections in which at least 6,000 residents voted for a new committee to represent their community interests. The _Wall Street Journal_ at the time noted that the elections appeared “to be free of the Communist Party meddling that typically mars Chinese election results.” At the time, this was practically unthinkable and was touted as _the_ path to broader grassroots democracy in China.

Structurally, the “Umbrella Revolution” in Hong Kong bears several similarities to Wukan — merely on a different scale. Both communities rose up after sensing that the Party had reneged on a prior understanding. In Wukan, there was no community input before the land sale and Hongkongers were stripped of their democratic right to freely stand for election without Beijing’s prior approval. Both communities protested peacefully (with a few exceptions, to be sure). Indeed, the two instances are so similar that Chinese President Xi Jinping reportedly has tapped Wang Yang, the governor of Guangdong during the Wukan protests and currently a vice premier on the politburo, to “remain on standby” to handle the situation in Hong Kong.

As the Hong Kong city government prepares to meet with student leaders this week, Wang’s hands could be working behind the scenes. What additionally makes Wang’s involvement remarkable is the fact that he is a stalwart Hu Jintao protégé and a well-known “liberal” within the party, owing his rise to power almost entirely to Xi’s predecessor. Wang was the progenitor of the “Happy Guangdong” development model — in resolving the Wukan crisis, he opted for steering the government in a direction that traded harmony for growth, as one scholar put it.

I don’t want to oversell the similarities between Wukan 2011 and Hong Kong 2014. One key difference is the extent to which anti-Beijing/Zhongnanhai rhetoric is prevalent in the “Umbrella Revolution.” Anyone following the protests in Hong Kong will have seen slogans condemning Beijing and the Party. In Wukan, there was no question about loyalty to the party — the demands were effectively much narrower. Additionally, as we potentially approach the “resolution phase” in Hong Kong after 13 days of protest, it’s difficult to imagine the protesters satisfying their preferences and interests in the negotiations with the city government the same way Wukan’s residents did.

For example, one of the protester’s core demands is for current Hong Kong Chief Executive CY Leung to step down from his post. In a best case outcome for the protesters, this core demand could be met while the broader issue of the NPC’s decision to limit which candidates are eligible for the chief executive post in the future could remain untouched. The reason this could be a viable outcome is because it asks Beijing to neither bend nor break on issues that it would consider its “core interests” in Hong Kong — Leung himself could prove disposable provided Hongkoners acquiesced to the Party’s broader demand that their city abide universal suffrage “with Chinese characteristics,” so to speak.

What sets Wukan leagues apart from the current situation in Hong Kong is the hugely influential personal intervention by Wang Yang himself. Wang, as governor and trusted ally of China’s then-President Hu Jintao, had significant leverage in addressing the protests which took place in a small village within his jurisdiction. Additionally, Wang’s handling and placation of that protest likely helped propel him to his current position on the Politburo. In Hong Kong, there is no analogous power-player, leaving matters far more uncertain. If Wang is indeed playing a role in the upcoming dialogue between protesters and the Hong Kong city government, he will most likely remain in the shadows.

Additionally, while it’s worth remembering Wukan in the context of Hong Kong, it should be noted that Wukan’s ultimate trajectory has proven to be decidedly undemocratic. After elections took place and normalcy was restored, little actually ended up changing for the village’s disaffected denizens. The issue that caused the protests in the first place — misappropriated land — remained unaddressed. If a resolution in Hong Kong emulates Wukan, it will hopefully do so in terms of processes and not actual outcomes. As remarkable as Wukan’s tryst with democracy seemed at the time, it all crumbled shortly thereafter.

As the protests hopefully head toward resolution in the coming days, it is clear that above all we are trending away from a repeat of June 4, 1989. If Tiananmen demonstrated the CCP’s capacity for brutal repression, then Wukan demonstrated its ability to walk a softer path and negotiate, given the right set of circumstances. While Hong Kong’s protesters won’t receive that sort of engagement from the mainland, it is a positive sign that talks will take place with the city government. Some student leaders have already declared this development as a victory for Hong Kong’s civil society. If the protesters win any concessions at all, we’ll have seen in Hong Kong a limited triumph of the Wukan model of restraint and dialogue.


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## TaiShang




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## Keel

“保普选反占中”大联盟收集183万签名递交港府-中新网

“保普选反占中”大联盟收集183万签名递交港府|政务司|司长_凤凰资讯

*“保普选反占中”大联盟收集183万签名递交港府*
2014年11月03日 19:58
来源：中国新闻网

原标题：“保普选反占中”大联盟收集183万签名递交港府







由“保普选反占中”大联盟发起的“还路于民 恢复秩序 维护法治”支持警方签名大行动，在过去九日，共收集到183万多个签名。11月3日，大联盟下午将收集到的签名，递交政务司司长林郑月娥等官员，要求当局严正执法。中新社发 谭达明 摄


发布时间：2014-11-03 19:55:26 【编辑：杨彦宇】
View attachment 144070


Wow, more than 1.8 million signatures in just about a 1-week campaign 

HK's democratic criminals and thuggish organisers/supporters/sponsers, please vacate the streets NOW 

YOU are the enemy of the People  
YOU are the very minority and YOU are criminals 

*港媒：市民反占中 百万港人签名还路于民*
2014-10-30 09:25:00中新网分享
107参与





　　10月29日，由香港保普选反占中大联盟发起的支持警察大签名行动已经获得超过100万香港市民的支持签名，发起人之一周融(中)在一个签名街站召开记者会。周融呼吁非法“占中”人士，听从香港市民的民意，结束违法行动。中新社发 谭达明 摄

　　中新网10月29日电 香港《文汇报》29日发表文章，总结违法“占中”行动对香港与国家带来的十大祸害，称“占中”行动破坏了法治秩序，冲击了香港经济。

　　文章称，由外部势力策动和支持下的违法“占中”已经持续了足足一个月，这场香港回归以来最严重和规模最大的违法事件，给香港带来的是冲击秩序、破坏法治、损害经济、祸害民生、撕裂社会、妨碍民主、干扰普选等种种严重恶果。

　　*港版“颜色革命”危害国家统一*

　　《文汇报》将这些祸害归纳为以下十个方面

一、港版“颜色革命”祸害深远。近日越来越多的证据说明，被西方媒体美化为“雨伞革命”的“占中”事件，实际上就是一场外部势力扮演操盘手角色，企图夺取香港管治权的港版“颜色革命”，给香港带来无尽的苦难和动荡。

　　二、“港独”、“台独”合流，危害国家统一。“占中”搞手一直打着“命运自主”、“重夺属于我们的未来等”“港独”意识强烈的口号。同时，“占中”除了有西方势力的策动外，也一直有台湾“台独”分子参与，暴露“两独合流”意图破坏“一国两制”的目的。

　　*严重损害法治 朋友家庭撕裂*

　　三、公共秩序和法治受到严重破坏，甚至到了暴乱边缘。“占中”者不但公然鼓吹“公民抗命”，在一个月的“占领”行动中，严重损害法治及社会秩序，更罔顾法庭发出的禁制令，视法律如无物，令本港法治蒙受严重冲击。原来的和平集会已迅速演变成严重破坏公众安全、公共秩序及扰民，甚至在旺角“占领”区出现天天争吵打斗，暴力冲突事件频频发生，少数激进分子还准备头盔、尖头雨伞、钢头鞋等装备，用来对抗警方执法，暴乱有可能一触即发。据不完全统计，已经有近70位警员在维持秩序时受伤，也有近百人因暴力违法活动被警方拘捕。

　　四、栽赃抹黑警方，打击警队士气。“占中”将维持法纪的警员视作敌人，以“网上起底”、粗言辱骂等下三流手段打击警员士气。一些教育界害群之马，更向学生渲染所谓警员“打压和平示威”的言论，对学生进行“洗脑”。然而，打击警队令警队难以执法，最终受害的只是全港市民。

　　五、撕裂社会，重创和谐。自从“占中”爆发以来，网络世界出现一股“Unfriend”潮，不少人将“异见者”“Unfriend”，手机通讯群组亦“退群”不断。同时，也有家长因此和子女产生矛盾，亲子、朋友、家庭关系都变得紧张，原先繁荣安定的香港社会，被这帮人搞得严重对立，分化撕裂。

　　*煽动学生做炮灰 重创金融中心地位*

　　六、煽动学生犯法，荼毒香港未来。“占中”爆发以来，富有理想和热情的学生被推到前台，成为打头阵的炮灰，“占中”搞手不但没有阻止学生参与违法暴力的“占领”行动，反而火上浇油地吹捧学生是“英雄、斗士”。这些年轻人很可能需负上刑责而影响前途，令香港的未来一代的发展蒙上阴影。

　　七、 动摇金融基础，损害香港经济。国际信用评级机构惠誉的报告指出，“占中”成了香港的管治问题，长远可能影响香港信贷评级;另一评级机构穆迪认为，若示威持续或出现暴力对决，将对香港评级带来负面影响。受“占中”的影响，“沪港通”传闻将暂难“通车”，令香港金融中心地位受到严重影响。而股市动荡造成的损失，也是高达数以千亿港元。

　*　“生意衰过非典” 返工上学艰难*

　　八、封锁旺区道路，百业损失惨重。酒店业方面，“占中”影响金钟及中环一带酒店的出入交通及物资供应，入住率下跌到50%至60%。香港汽车交通运输业总工会表示，“占中”影响职业司机收入，有出租车司机的营业额减少30%到50%。零售、餐饮等更惨受“占中”冲击，不少商铺不得不结业，有商户更直指“生意衰过非典”，总体损失也高达数百亿港元。

　　九、市区严重堵车，返工上学艰难。由于道路严重堵塞，数以百条巴士线或停或改，市民出入均受到严重影响，要多花一倍至两倍的时间，令广大市民怨气冲天。

　　十、妨碍政制发展进程，破坏市民的“普选梦”。“占中”者不断提出越来越高的要价，特别是要求撤回全国人大常委会的决定，死撑违反香港基本法的“公民提名”，更令到政府与学生的对话并无成果，香港普选的进程有可能因此被拖慢，市民能否在2017年实现特首“普选梦”，现在还不得而知。

　　文章最后称，广大市民都期待这场“噩梦”赶快过去，让社会重新回到正常发展的轨道之中。

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## bolo

[QUOTE="TaiShang, post: 6375433, member: 156618"



Bad thing HK has no death sentence for this particular individual (if found guilty by a jury), and another bad thing, HK will have to feed this person until he dies of natural causes (probably includes injuries incurred from being someone's el-manita).



*This comment is rather harsh and unwelcome, and no laughing matter, to be honest. No person deserves to die in the hands of a maniac. Just consider the socio-economic/political conditions that might have put those unfortunate women in that sort of business/trade out of their own will?*

I anticipate the harshest possible sentence to this particular convict and condolences on the victims' families and loved ones.



Taiwan is pretty much a CCTV nation, as well. In some quarters, it just gets crazy. But it is a good thing; overdoing security is better than under-doing it. I had, however, many Western classmates who were complaining about the cameras all around the campus.[/QUOTE]

My comment was to show the harsh reality and failed policies of Hk government allowing so many expats to work in HK. Most of these expats are not top scientist, engineers or doctors. bankster are a dime a dozen. You do not need to go to a top school to be a bankster but it helps with connection.

There are many business graduates with MBA/PHD local Chinese that can work in financial institutions.

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## TaiShang

But if this circus ends like this, where will all those Indian and Vietnamese trolls be employed? And what will cover these peoples' own failures and inefficiencies?

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## TaiShang

bolo said:


> My comment was to show the harsh reality and failed policies of Hk government allowing so many expats to work in HK. Most of these expats are not top scientist, engineers or doctors. bankster are a dime a dozen. You do not need to go to a top school to be a bankster but it helps with connection.



I agree with you on this. That's why I argue that China should, as a first step, unify HK immigration with those of China and radically upgrade its definition of "foreign expert."

The women in this case are victims, not perpetrators.

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## mike2000

What's the fuss about this? There are also Chinese citizens who have committed crimes abroad, so I dont see why this is even making news headlines.


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## TheMatador

Hiptullha said:


> Amazing.
> Only 50 cent propagandists would be praising this sort of stuff.
> View attachment 142844


I am the eye in the sky. Looking at you wu wu I can read your mind.



Raphael said:


> *British banker Rurik Jutting suspected of 'American Psycho' killings in Hong Kong *
> 
> A British man has been charged with the murder of two women who were found naked inside his luxury Hong Kong apartment.
> 
> 
> Rurik George Caton Jutting, 29, who had been suspected of being behind the horrific American Psycho-style killings of two Asian women in* Hong Kong *is a 29-year-old Cambridge University graduate.
> 
> 
> He was arrested in the early hours of Saturday after the bodies of two women, reported by local media to be sex workers, were found by police in his 31st floor apartment in the former British colony.
> 
> 
> Mr Jutting, who is an employee of Bank of America Merril Lynch, apparently vanished from his place of work around a week ago, a co-worker told The Telegraph. The South China Morning Post reported that he had recently resigned.
> 
> 
> Police found the two dead women, thought to be a 25-year-old from Indonesia and a 30-year-old from the Philippines, at Mr Jutting's apartment in Hong Kong's Wan Chai district at around 3.45am on Saturday.
> 
> 
> On Sunday night the South China Morning Post said police had identified the Indonesian victim as 25-year-old Sumarti Ningsih.
> 
> The woman arrived in the former British colony last month on a tourist visa, the newspaper said. She was identified with the help of an Indonesian cousin who works in Hong Kong as a maid.
> 
> The second victim, who local media said was from the Philippines, worked as a "part-time disc jockey in a pub," the South China Morning Post added.
> 
> Police believe Ningsih, who was reportedly found naked, partially decapitated and inside a suitcase on Mr Jutting's balcony, had been dead for up to five days. Her body was in an advanced state of decomposition and one neighbour in the J Residence building said he had noticed "a stink in the building like a dead animal".
> 
> The Filipina victim had sustained multiple stab wounds and was found lying on the floor inside the £3,000-a-month flat.
> 
> Mr Jutting, who studied history and law at Cambridge University and was a member of its rowing club, was seen returning to his flat in the company of a scantily-clad woman at just after midnight on Friday night, Hong Kong's Mingpao newspaper claimed.
> 
> At 3.42am the British banker allegedly called the police. They arrived a short while later and took him into custody, the newspaper added.
> 
> Forensic teams also reportedly found sex toys, a small quantity of cocaine and a smartphone that belonged to Mr Jutting at the apartment.
> 
> "Police are investigating whether there are more victims," a police source told the South China Morning Post on Sunday.
> 
> Takungpao, another local newspaper, said police were also investigating the possibility of a second suspect.
> 
> The reported crime scene recalled Bret Easton Ellis' book "American Psycho" where numerous barbaric crimes occur in the apartment of a Wall Street investment banker.


First 1995 Outbreak comes to life. Now another 90's movie American Psycho.

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## alaungphaya

mike2000 said:


> What's the fuss about this? There are also Chinese citizens who have committed crimes abroad, so I dont see why this is even making news headlines.



High flying investment banker who enjoys seedy lifestyle in Asia with drugs and prostitutes goes crazy and hacks two women to death. You don't think this is newsworthy?

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## Keel

alaungphaya said:


> High flying investment banker who enjoys seedy lifestyle in Asia with drugs and prostitutes goes crazy and hacks two women to death. You don't think this is newsworthy?



Precisely
Not only for the 2 alleged homicides, what is more horrible is the Brit pscho has stored volumes of dead bodies pix on his phone 
Read this:



terranMarine said:


> Hong Kong murders: Police 'investigate thousands of images of dead bodies on Rurik Jutting's phone' - Telegraph
> pretty sick Briton having > 1000 photos of dead bodies on his phone



I wonder how many more grosteque discoveries be found on his personal computer YUCK


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## alaungphaya

Keel said:


> Precisely
> Not only for the 2 alleged homicides, what is more horrible is the Brit pscho has stored volumes of dead bodies pix on his phone
> Read this:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how many more grosteque discoveries be found on his personal computer YUCK



Did he also have a bunch of videotapes he had to return?


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## Keel

alaungphaya said:


> Did he also have a bunch of videotapes he had to return?



Good hint. 
People of such deviously extreme character should be locked behind bars
This case may give the lead to a string of unsolved homicide cases in UK, HK, Asia elsewhere
Just connect the dots and a lot of DNA matchings


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## Keel

October 3, more discoveries in his phone messages and materials in his apartment and also the ID of the tragic women;

Banker charged with 2 Hong Kong murders in case echoing 'American Psycho' | Fox News


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## mike2000

Hiptullha said:


> Neither.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck bringing any sort of change to the system when it turns on you.



Bro in U.K we have even more CCTV cameras in public places more than any other country on earth for security reasons, reason our crime rate is so low and we easily bust/arrest Muslim terrorists/jihadists even before they start laying out their plans. Those who can't do it is because they are either too poor to afford one or don't have the capabilities e.g Pakistan and other south Asian countries. So chill bro.

CCTV In The UK - The Most Watched Nation In The World!



bobsm said:


> UK, the world’s most surveilled state, begins using automated face recognition to catch criminals | ExtremeTech
> 
> good for the Brits.



We might be small, but never underestimate our capabilities.


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## ChineseTiger1986

*Organisers say they want to show their anger at Britain for not standing up to China over 'breaches' of the agreement*

Hong Kong students plan to occupy roads surrounding the city's British consulate in anger at a lack of support from London for their pro-democracy movement, as authorities ramp up pressure on protesters to go home.

The city's government has urged protesters to leave the main rally sites after more than six weeks of demonstrations that have brought parts of Hong Kong to a standstill.

Police were authorised Monday to back up bailiffs charged with clearing barricades.
They are expected to start the operation in the next few days, with thousands of officers put on standby over the weekend according to local media.

But seemingly undaunted, activists have put up large posters around the protest areas announcing the consulate occupation on November 21 and a Facebook page for the event has more than 700 likes.

Organisers say they want to show their anger at Britain for not standing up to China over "breaches" of the agreement the two countries made before Hong Kong was handed back to China by Britain in 1997, designed to protect Hong Kong's social systems and way of life.

"We are angry at the way that the British government has for many years denied that China has actually breached the declaration by interfering with Hong Kong politics," Anna-Kate Choi, the coordinator for the Occupy British Consulate group told AFP.

"They have the responsibility to make sure that the joint declaration has been implemented properly and that democracy and the high degree of autonomy of Hong Kong has been protected," Choi said.

She hoped for a turnout of hundreds "maybe even thousands", with secondary school pupils spearheading the protest.

The British consulate said they had no comment.

Event posters bear the slogan: "China breaches the joint declaration, UK government respond now", with the pro-democracy movement's umbrella symbol emblazoned with the British flag.

Britain and China are signatories of the 1984 Sino-British Joint Declaration, an agreement that enshrines the "one country, two systems" principle and is meant to preserve Hong Kong's capitalist system and way of life until 2047.

It states that: "The current social and economic systems in Hong Kong will remain unchanged, and so will the lifestyle."

British Prime Minister David Cameron said he was "deeply concerned" about escalating protests in the former British colony after police used tear gas on protesters at the end of September.

But activists feel that Britain is turning a blind eye and that China is eroding Hong Kong's freedoms.

Residents enjoy rights not seen on the mainland, including freedom of expression and assembly.

However there are signs some of those rights are being curtailed, including physical and cyber-attacks on Hong Kong-based journalists critical of Beijing.

Activists say a policy "white paper", published by China's cabinet in June, backtracked on the joint declaration by warning the city not to overstep the boundaries of its autonomy.

Protesters are demanding fully free leadership elections for the semi-autonomous city in 2017. But Beijing has refused to back down on its insistence that candidates must be vetted by a loyalist committee.

Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' - Telegraph

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## ChineseTiger1986

How can a dog bark at its master? 

@mike2000

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## Raphael

It seems even running dogs can bite the hand that feeds. What a farcical agitation.

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## SarthakGanguly

How come Hong Kongers continuing this agitation for so long? Seems like I underestimated the people's ambitions in the beginning.


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## mike2000

Lool I don't know why you find it awkward. As I already told you, we have way more influence in Hong Kong than any other country on planet earth including the U.S. anyway these students actions again prove the point I made earlier that, though I don't want to sound like a white supremacist, I must again say that quite aconsiderable number if people in Hong Kong will rather be ruled by us(even though under us, they had less freedom than today, the hell they had no say at all about how we ruled them. ) than by their 'brothers' in the mainland. So we are still looked upon as a model/Dad for them. Think we don't even need to make much effort to recruit quite a number of them as spies, so they can work for our interests. 

Sorry for bring blunt/frank buddy. But that's how geo politics works, everything is allowed, whether its immoral or not. So we can/ might use them for our own interests/purpose when we think the they will be needed. So you better be nice with us....else.....


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## ChineseTiger1986

Raphael said:


> It seems even running dogs can bite the hand that feeds. What a farcical agitation.



I think they shouldn't forget to occupy the US consulate as well.

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## ChineseTiger1986

mike2000 said:


> Lool I don't know why you find it awkward. As I already told you, we have way more influence in Hong Kong than any other country on planet earth including the U.S. anyway these students actions again prove the point I made earlier that, though I don't want to sound like a white supremacist, I must again say that quite aconsiderable number if people in Hong Kong will rather be ruled by us(even though under us, they had less freedom than today, the hell they had no say at all about how we ruled them. ) than by their 'brothers' in the mainland. So we are still looked upon as a model/Dad for them. Think we don't even need to make much effort to recruit quite a number of them as spies, so they can work for our interests.
> 
> Sorry for bring blunt/frank buddy. But that's how geo politics works, everything is allowed, whether its immoral or not. So we can/ might use them for our own interests/purpose when we think the they will be needed. So you better be nice with us....else.....



Sure, but why you just don't stand up for them?

Now they are feeling pissed at you for this betrayal.

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## TheMatador

Send in the redcoats for massacre of native tribals.

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## TaiShang

I just hope they do that. HK police should facilitate the occupation. Invade the consulate, hold the consulate general as hostage, and demand British troops to set anchor in HK. That will be a great service to the cause of China.

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## cirr

I think the protesters should occupy all the western consulates in Hong Kong，and not for days but for decades。

I am totally behind the protesters so long as they confine their silly and wanton acts to Hong Kong。

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> I just hope they do that. HK police should facilitate the occupation. Invade the consulate, hold the consulate general as hostage, and demand British troops to set anchor in HK. That will be a great service to the cause of China.



I think they should start to plan a movement to occupy the Buckingham against the betrayal from the UK.

We are generous, we can even provide them the airplane ticket and send them to the UK for the new protest movement.

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## TaiShang

cirr said:


> I think the protesters *should occupy all the western consulates in Hong Kong*，and *not for days but for decades*。
> 
> I am totally behind the protesters so long as they confine their silly and wanton acts to Hong Kong。



If they do that, I promise I will support them buying off all the yellow umbrellas out there.

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## Shinigami

> We are angry at the way that the British government has for many years denied that *China has actually breached the declaration by interfering with Hong Kong politics,*" Anna-Kate Choi, the coordinator for the Occupy British Consulate group told AFP.
> 
> *
> Britain and China are signatories of the 1984 Sino-British Joint Declaration, an agreement that enshrines the "one country, two systems" principle and is meant to preserve Hong Kong's capitalist system and way of life until 2047.
> 
> It states that: "The current social and economic systems in Hong Kong will remain unchanged, and so will the lifestyle."*



the blame squarely lies on china


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## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think they should start to plan an occupy the Buckingham movement against the betrayal from the UK.
> 
> We are generous, we can even provide them the airplane ticket and send them to the UK for the new protest movement.



LOL. Great idea. PLA can mobilize all the protesters to London to occupy Buckingham. Their master will treat them accordingly. They will be given some freedom and liberty and democracy that they lack in Hong Kong. Some of them may even be allowed to tend the horses in Queens' stable.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> LOL. Great idea. PLA can mobilize all the protesters to London to occupy Buckingham. Their master will treat them accordingly. They will be given some freedom and liberty and democracy that they lack in Hong Kong. Some of them may even be allowed to tend the horses in Queens' stable.



We simply want to see the master starts to spank its disobedient dog.

So let's them to occupy the UK for not standing up against the commie China.

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## TaiShang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We simply want to see the master starts to spank its disobedient dog.
> So let's them to occupy the UK for not standing up against the commie China.



 Over 30 millions USD spent on the Occupy project and it will end op occupying the master's consulate? That would be a beautiful disgrace to watch. 

The British should treat these dogs no better than how they would treat an unruly terrier.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TaiShang said:


> Over 30 millions USD spent on the Occupy project and it will end op occupying the master's consulate? That would be a beautiful disgrace to watch.
> 
> The British should treat these dogs no better than how they would treat an unruly terrier.



Those people deserve every bit what they are receiving now.

Their white masters treat them as the subhuman chinks, while the ordinary Chinese view them as the outcasts and will never take them as its own people.

I only feel pity for those protestors.

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## Shinigami

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those people deserve every bit what they are receiving now.
> 
> Their *white masters* treat them as the subhuman chinks, while the ordinary Chinese view them as the outcasts and will never take them as its own people.
> 
> I only feel pity for those protestors.


just call them british or brits.
why do you chinese keep using the term *"white masters" *so much?


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## mike2000

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Sure, but why you just don't stand up for them?
> 
> Now they are feeling pissed at you for this betrayal.



Lool I already told you why. We don't really to support them openly for now. But when we will need them, then be prepared for a full scale support/assault. Their services are no longer needed for now, so they are despatched/relieved from their role for the moment until further notice.


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## TaiShang

mike2000 said:


> Lool I already told you why. We don't really to support them openly for now. But when we will need them, then be prepared for a full scale support/assault. Their services are no longer needed for now, so they are despatched/relieved from their role for the moment until further notice.



Now they will feel really lonely and deserted by the master. You are a spoiled master at best. You must treat your slave well, man. Too much frustration, you know, leads to where. A dog can bite you out of pure love. Support them fully, man. Do whatever you have not already done.

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## alaungphaya

I've lost respect for the Occupy movement now. This has nothing to do with the UK.


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## TaiShang

alaungphaya said:


> I've lost respect for the Occupy movement now. This has nothing to do with the UK.



To the contrary, they have my full respect now.

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## GeHAC

mike2000 said:


> Lool I already told you why. We don't really to support them openly for now. But when we will need them, then be prepared for a full scale support/assault. Their services are no longer needed for now, so they are despatched/relieved from their role for the moment until further notice.


I'd rather "The Empire on which the sun never sets " support them openly,then there would be no need for a HK basic law article 23.CPC would appreciate it,lol

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## qwerrty

those people are really out of touch with reality

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## pigtaker

alaungphaya said:


> I've lost respect for the Occupy movement now. This has nothing to do with the UK.


no, they have everything to do with UK, by its dirty play. UK is just a clown now desperate to prove its existence.

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## pigtaker

mike2000 said:


> Lool I already told you why. We don't really to support them openly for now. But when we will need them, then be prepared for a full scale support/assault. Their services are no longer needed for now, so they are despatched/relieved from their role for the moment until further notice.


a full scale support/assault? with what? your glorious colonizing memory?

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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> Lool I already told you why. We don't really to support them openly for now. But when we will need them, then be prepared for a full scale support/assault. Their services are no longer needed for now, so they are despatched/relieved from their role for the moment until further notice.



LMAO, you have no control over them. That's why they're embarrassing you guys in front of your own consulate. If you were truly their puppet master, they'd be awaiting further instructions instead of camping out in front of the British consulate like a bunch of butthurt homeless vagrants. Stop deluding yourself regarding British (non-existent) power. No one here agrees with you and you look foolish when you claim otherwise.

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## vostok

People reunited with their homeland and got rid of foreign rule. And they do not appreciate it! In Novorossia, every day dies braves for the sake of reunification with the Motherland!
Shame on those "protesters"!

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## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think they shouldn't forget to occupy the US consulate as well.


don't give Anna-kate Choi new ideas LOL. These HK students have nothing better to do. What HK need right now is a mild recession to bring the some dogs down from cloud 9.

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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> LOL. Great idea. PLA can mobilize all the protesters to London to occupy Buckingham. Their master will treat them accordingly. They will be given some freedom and liberty and democracy that they lack in Hong Kong. Some of them may even be allowed to tend the horses in Queens' stable.


HK people are bunch of wimps. They don't dare start trouble in foreign land.

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## Snomannen

SarthakGanguly said:


> How come Hong Kongers continuing this agitation for so long? Seems like I underestimated the people's ambitions in the beginning.



Because unlike what the US government did to those protesters in Wall Street, the HK government is so peaceful that it doesn't use serious force to wipe those riots out from the road.
Also those yellow rebellions (so-called representatives of HKers) take the advantage of the freedom in Hong Kong to do what they want.

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## Keel

Latest news: This traitor was showered with sh^t: 

黎智英遭3名男子当街淋屎 呆若木鸡(组图) | www.wenxuecity.com

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## ChineseTiger1986

mike2000 said:


> Lool I already told you why. We don't really to support them openly for now. But when we will need them, then be prepared for a full scale support/assault. Their services are no longer needed for now, so they are despatched/relieved from their role for the moment until further notice.



But the problem is that they believe it is not enough, they want you to openly stand up against China.

I have visited the AppleDaily forum, they believe you Brits are still a superpower and want you to declare the war against China.

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## Keel

SarthakGanguly said:


> How come Hong Kongers continuing this agitation for so long? Seems like I underestimated the people's ambitions in the beginning.



It's Official: The US is a Leading Terrorist State

Read # 107 
Why Hong Kong protesters are hated by everyone | Page 8

https://defence.pk/threads/us-now-a...py-central”-in-hong-kong.337460/#post-6256353

What gives the UK the right to involve itself in Hong Kong?

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## bolo

Keel said:


> It's Official: The US is a Leading Terrorist State
> 
> Read # 107
> Why Hong Kong protesters are hated by everyone | Page 8
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/us-now-a...py-central”-in-hong-kong.337460/#post-6256353
> 
> What gives the UK the right to involve itself in Hong Kong?


Well US is exercising her power as what China should do in the future. Start occupy Wu Chi Ming city in Vietnam back up by Chinese consulate.

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## Keel

bolo said:


> Well US is exercising her power as what China should do in the future. Start occupy Wu Chi Ming city in Vietnam back up by Chinese consulate.



Exactly
All of the losers on PDF like @BoQ77 @EastSea @NiceGuy @Viet are champions of "democracy" suporting the criminals in HK but they dare not to whisper "Occupy Ho Chi Min" "Occupy Hanoi" "Occupy Hai Phong" ... against their corrupt government which can only make this aeroplane 

Small propeller airplane made in Vietnam still waits for license | Greeting Vietnam

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## AgentOrange

SarthakGanguly said:


> How come Hong Kongers continuing this agitation for so long? Seems like I underestimated the people's ambitions in the beginning.



Occupy wallstreeters hung on for half a year before being brutally dispersed by a "democratic" police assault by American security forces. The "Hong Kongers" you speak of number less than a few thousand, down from hundreds of thousands and the HK police force has behaved with impeccable professionalism. As long as the remnants of the HK occupy movement don't block major roads and don't disrupt business, they're free to flush their educations and future job prospects down the toilet.

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## AgentOrange

Keel said:


> Exactly
> All of the losers on PDF like @BoQ77 @EastSea @NiceGuy @Viet are champions of "democracy" suporting the criminals in HK but they dare not to whisper "Occupy Ho Chi Min" "Occupy Hanoi" "Occupy Hai Phong" ... against their corrupt government which can only make this aeroplane
> 
> Small propeller airplane made in Vietnam still waits for license | Greeting Vietnam



Those Viet losers know that their own government will arrest them and jail them for years if they dare mention anything about the Vietnamese government *or* the Chinese government. I believe NiceGuy was in jail the past month - arrested by his own countrymen - for being too anti-China.

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## AgentOrange

TaiShang said:


> I just hope they do that. HK police should facilitate the occupation. Invade the consulate, hold the consulate general as hostage, and demand British troops to set anchor in HK. That will be a great service to the cause of China.



Exactly. If the British people actually cared about "freedom" as they often and loudly proclaim, they'd stop hiding like cowards behind their consulate and confront the now "democratic" anti-Chinese and anti-British protesters. But when faced with protesters who aren't violently suppressed by the British police as is often the case in the "free" United Kingdom, the Brits don't know what to do and are wetting themselves in fear and shame.

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## SarthakGanguly

AgentOrange said:


> Occupy wallstreeters hung on for half a year before being brutally dispersed by a "democratic" police assault by American security forces. The "Hong Kongers" you speak of number less than a few thousand, down from hundreds of thousands and the HK police force has behaved with impeccable professionalism. As long as the remnants of the HK occupy movement don't block major roads and don't disrupt business, they're free to flush their educations and future job prospects down the toilet.


Please point out to me what the objectives of the Hong Kongers are.


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## AgentOrange

SarthakGanguly said:


> Please point out to me what the objectives of the Hong Kongers are.



If you've been following the thread, their objectives are protesting the British at this point.

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## SarthakGanguly

AgentOrange said:


> If you've been following the thread, their objectives are protesting the British at this point.


All I see are thousands of men, women and children asking for democratic reforms. It remains to be seen if China grants them that, being a responsible power or presses the panic button and does something rash. As of now, China has handled it well but the situation hangs in balance now.


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## AgentOrange

SarthakGanguly said:


> All I see are thousands of men, women and children asking for democratic reforms. It remains to be seen if China grants them that, being a responsible power or presses the panic button and does something rash. As of now, China has handled it well but the situation hangs in balance now.



The balance has swung in China's favor. As I've said, a couple of thousand protesters now, on a good day (most days its a few hundred) down from a peak of hundreds of thousands. Hong Kongers want to make money and they don't want a bunch of spoiled brats hurting business. China won. If people can't accept that, it's their problem.

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## SarthakGanguly

AgentOrange said:


> Hong Kongers want to make money and they don't want a bunch of spoiled brats hurting business.


In that case the Hong Kong police would have dealt with the situation long ago. What's stopping them then, may I ask?


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## AgentOrange

SarthakGanguly said:


> In that case the Hong Kong police would have dealt with the situation long ago. What's stopping them then, may I ask?



Because Hong Kong police have to abide by Hong Kong law. The remaining protesters have complied with HKPD instructions and are no longer blocking major streets and thoroughfares. 

The original protest of hundreds of thousands of people petered out on its own because they were hurting business and they managed to turn the average HongKonger against them. Why then, would HK police have to do anything to a movement that was dying on its own?

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## mike2000

AgentOrange said:


> LMAO, you have no control over them. That's why they're embarrassing you guys in front of your own consulate. If you were truly their puppet master, they'd be awaiting further instructions instead of camping out in front of the British consulate like a bunch of butthurt homeless vagrants. Stop deluding yourself regarding British (non-existent) power. No one here agrees with you and you look foolish when you claim otherwise.



LOOL im deluding myself about British non existent power man? Im just making point/stating my point of view, Its not like im the one making our laws/policies.lool Im just a common citizen/civilian just like you, so whether my government gets involves in China's internal affairs like it seemed to have been doing in this case doesnt affects me one bit, nor does it increase my salary or livelihood or whatever.lool So i have no business with politicans from anywhere irrespective of the country, since i(unlike most people on here.lol) know that Politicans are all hypocryties/liars be it in the U.K or wherever, thats what makes them politicians in the first place. So me i dont look at things/focus too much on country perspective(since i know none is an angel/evil per se), i have long moved beyond that, so should you. Thats what enables me to be able to make more rational judgements/comments towards other countries, i do so not based on my feelings/bias, but based on facts/realities. So thats why i dont find anything wrong in saying bad things when my government does something wrong/immoral(unlike most of you on here who hardly ever criticize/say something bad which might be wrong in your countries).

So chill down, i was just making an observation which i thought must have been quite obvious for most of you. You said Britain has a non existent power.lool I thought i already said it on here before(think it was to you or one of your country men). What you say wont change reality. If we were non existent/insignificant as you seem to wish lool then why is an insignificant/non existent country like the U.K able to influence events in a 'super power' internal affairs like China? You should ask yourself that bro. That means your country is not that powerful like you might think then. Judging that you have zero chance/influence/ability to influence our own internal affairs, unlike we do in China.  

So this should make you think really hard. For example we cant get involve in U.S internal affairs ever, even if we wanted, because the U.S is really Powerful and has the most powerful/skilled secret service on planet earth, so that theres no way a foreign country can even get involved on U.S soil to forment trouble/turmoil without the U.S knowing way before that even starts. That's how you know a 'true power'. China still has along way to go. So calm down man, i know China is still a developing country(the largest, most advanced and most powerful one though), but you still need time to complete all your development phase and thereby fill in the holes like we had done decades ago, so its not like i blame your governemnt though, since they still have alots of people to move out of porverty/improve living standards, before focusing more on other less obvious sectors like offensive covert operations like the U.S/west have been doing for a while now. So the day you are able to infleunce our internal affairs/or have the ability to forment unrest/protests/trouble etc in our internal affairs/country the that day i will know you have indeed arrived/match us/surpass us. But until then its not the case, we can still influence/get involved in your internal affairs unlike you, so keep catching up bro. I know our government(just like the U.S)shouldnt be getting involve in other countries internal affairs, but then again i cant really blame them that much, since i know this is geom politics, and thats how it works and thats how it will keep working in future, so they seem to be just doing it better than other countries/regions out there, thats the only difference. No hard feelings though, Just making a point/observation.


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## mike2000

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But the problem is that they believe it is not enough, they want you to openly stand up against China.
> 
> I have visited the AppleDaily forum, they believe you Brits are still a superpower and want you to declare the war against China.



lool those are youths who have already have a good notion of us as liberators/democracy etc. So of course, they will still rather we rule them(even if they have no say in that as well). So in some way(though ironic as it might seem) some of them still want our colonial era back. So as i said before, in politics sometimes realities isn't really what matters, perception is more important. Once you are able to give other poeple a better/good perception of yourself/country (whether fake or real), then of course they are ready to believe in you and act in your interests than even their own country. Doesn't matter what method you use, it might be through media, lifestyle/values etc, but as far as you do it, it doesnt matter whether its real/moral/fair or not, as far as others believe you and look up to you then your objectives have already been met even before you start the battle. As i said i dont find anything wrong in that(politically that is). Geo politics is never a clean game and dont expect it to be. Every other major power does it(others who dont is simply because they dont have the capabilities to be honest). The only difference is that we in the west/U.S do it wayyy better than anyone out there.

And no we wont support them openly, since that wont be a good PR(perception again as i said). So i guess our leaders will just keep silent or say politically correct stuffs as usual.


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## Genesis

mike2000 said:


> lool those are youths who have already have a good notion of us as liberators/democracy etc. So of course, they will still rather we rule them(even if they have no say in that as well). So in some way(though ironic as it might seem) some of them still want our colonial era back. So as i said before, in poltics sometimes realities isnt really what realy matters, perception is more important. Once you are able to give other poeple a better perception of yourself/country (whether fake or real), thent of course they are ready to believe in you and act in your interests than even their own country. Doesnt matter what method you used, it might through media, lifestyle/values etc, but as far as you do it, it doesnt matter whether you all these or not, as far as others believe you and look up to you then your objectives have already been met even before you start the battle. As i said i dont find anything wrong in that(politically that is). Geo politics is never a clean game and dont expect it to be. Every other major power does it(others who dont is simply because they dont have the capabilities to be honest). The only difference is that we in the west/U.S do it wayyy better than anyone out there.
> 
> And no we wont support them openly, since that wont be a good PR(perception again as i said). So i guess our leaders will just keep silent or say politically correct stuffs as usual.



I don't like Hong Kong for exactly this reason, we given them way too much, it seems now like we own them something. The fact of the matter is we own them shit.

I'm not mad at the UK, it's a more advanced country, it's a developed country, it's a prestigious country, it's no longer the world's super power, but that prestige doesn't die, at least not until you lose a war, the Falklands didn't help though.

Though UK has no real power here, but whether it does or not, this could be the turning point in Chinese prestige. This could potentially turn into China supressing a color revolution. Now whether it is one is up for debate, but we can certainly spin it that way and there are enough evidence here to paint that picture if not to put you away. 

This could be the turning point in Chinese prestige that the West can no longer do as they wish in Chinese territory and thus would destroy any faction that have any illusions on what China is in the world.


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## BoQ77

Keel said:


> Exactly
> All of the losers on PDF like @BoQ77 @EastSea @NiceGuy @Viet are champions of "democracy" suporting the criminals in HK but they dare not to whisper "Occupy Ho Chi Min" "Occupy Hanoi" "Occupy Hai Phong" ... against their corrupt government which can only make this aeroplane
> 
> Small propeller airplane made in Vietnam still waits for license | Greeting Vietnam



Let occupy Hanoi. Is there some secret agent to follow me on Internet? Oh no. We always could occupy Hanoi.
Our protest right is approved by Congress. 
LOL.


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## Kyle Sun

Funny..............

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## TaiShang

One thing is for sure. Masters by nature never feel good about their servants as there is always room for improvement. Now the UK dogs in HK are doing a disservice to the hand that feeds them after they have miserably failed to deliver what they initially promised: A baby revolution. This occupy UK consulate thing is just rubbing salt to the wound. Will the master ever forgive the slave? Will the Occupiers ever receive funding and free bananas and toilet papers? Who will compensate for their lost education opportunities now that they have been absent from classes for almost a semester?

Are the slave doomed to be doomed?

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## AgentOrange

BoQ77 said:


> Let occupy Hanoi. Is there some secret agent to follow me on Internet? Oh no. We always could occupy Hanoi.
> Our protest right is approved by Congress.
> LOL.



Lol no it's not. That's why you are arrested by your own government for posting anti-China blogs.

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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> LOOL im deluding myself about British non existent power man? Im just making point/stating my point of view, Its not like im the one making our laws/policies.lool Im just a common citizen/civilian just like you, so whether my government gets involves in China's internal affairs like it seemed to have been doing in this case doesnt affects me one bit, nor does it increase my salary or livelihood or whatever.lool So i have no business with politicans from anywhere irrespective of the country, since i(unlike most people on here.lol) know that Politicans are all hypocryties/liars be it in the U.K or wherever, thats what makes them politicians in the first place. So me i dont look at things/focus too much on country perspective(since i know none is an angel/evil per se), i have long moved beyond that, so should you. Thats what enables me to be able to make more rational judgements/comments towards other countries, i do so not based on my feelings/bias, but based on facts/realities. So thats why i dont find anything wrong in saying bad things when my government does something wrong/immoral(unlike most of you on here who hardly ever criticize/say something bad which might be wrong in your countries).
> 
> So chill down, i was just making an observation which i thought must have been quite obvious for most of you. You said Britain has a non existent power.lool I thought i already said it on here before(think it was to you or one of your country men). What you say wont change reality. If we were non existent/insignificant as you seem to wish lool then why is an insignificant/non existent country like the U.K able to influence events in a 'super power' internal affairs like China? You should ask yourself that bro. That means your country is not that powerful like you might think then. Judging that you have zero chance/influence/ability to influence our own internal affairs, unlike we do in China.
> 
> So this should make you think really hard. For example we cant get involve in U.S internal affairs ever, even if we wanted, because the U.S is really Powerful and has the most powerful/skilled secret service on planet earth, so that theres no way a foreign country can even get involved on U.S soil to forment trouble/turmoil without the U.S knowing way before that even starts. That's how you know a 'true power'. China still has along way to go. So calm down man, i know China is still a developing country(the largest, most advanced and most powerful one though), but you still need time to complete all your development phase and thereby fill in the holes like we had done decades ago, so its not like i blame your governemnt though, since they still have alots of people to move out of porverty/improve living standards, before focusing more on other less obvious sectors like offensive covert operations like the U.S/west have been doing for a while now. So the day you are able to infleunce our internal affairs/or have the ability to forment unrest/protests/trouble etc in our internal affairs/country the that day i will know you have indeed arrived/match us/surpass us. But until then its not the case, we can still influence/get involved in your internal affairs unlike you, so keep catching up bro. I know our government(just like the U.S)shouldnt be getting involve in other countries internal affairs, but then again i cant really blame them that much, since i know this is geom politics, and thats how it works and thats how it will keep working in future, so they seem to be just doing it better than other countries/regions out there, thats the only difference. No hard feelings though, Just making a point/observation.



Give me an example of Britain influencing Chinese affairs. You don't have any. You're all talk with no substance to back up your claims. That's why no one agrees with you. Your one "example" of British influence is actually a demonstration of absolute British impotence as your own "puppets" have turned against you and are protesting in front of your consulate in Hong Kong. Even that giant wall of frantic text you posted is short on example and long on delusion. But to each their own. I can't change what you think even if reality doesn't agree with you. Take it easy bro and don't be too upset Britain is irrelevant. Britain had its time in the sun and now its time for the British to hush up and die quietly in the corner. Cheers bud.

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## AgentOrange

TaiShang said:


> One thing is for sure. Masters by nature never feel good about their servants as there is always room for foreigners. Now the UK dogs in HK are doing a disservice to the hand that feeds them after they have miserably failed to deliver what they initially promised: A baby revolution. This occupy UK consulate thing is just rubbing salt to the wound. Will the master ever forgive the slave? Will the Occupiers ever receive funding and free bananas and toilet papers? Who will compensate for their lost education opportunities now that they have been absent from classes for almost a semester?
> 
> Are the slave doomed to be doomed?



The idiot slaves (hong kong occupy morons) foolishly believed their British "masters" had any say in the matter when in fact, their "masters" are already slaves of the Americans. The British can't be bothered to come out of hiding because they are now worried the US might commit ground troops to fight ISIS - which means British slave soldiers will have to go and die on behalf of their American masters as well. A sad state of affairs to have no independent foreign policy. Must be humbling for the British.

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## BoQ77

I guess they continue their protest until their target met.


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## Keel

BoQ77 said:


> Let occupy Hanoi. Is there some secret agent to follow me on Internet? Oh no. We always could occupy Hanoi.
> Our protest right is approved by Congress.
> LOL.



You are making yourself a big loser and the biggest loser of all the Viet flaggers on the forum

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## Keel

The crimes that those "occupy central" low-lives have committed are, first of all they are holding the rest of 7 million people hostages to the level of blackmailing the government to submit to their claims.
Second, they are the very minority. The overwhelming majority of the people do not agree to the manner of their protests. 1.5 million HKers have signed and voted against the way the criminals are doing now. They want the criminals to go home at once.
Third, their claims for democracy is unrealistic and against the basic law.
Fourth, they have breached the local court's order to vacate the areas by staying on the streets. They have defied the rule of law which is one of the keystones upholding the values of Hongkong.
Fifth, there are more than sufficient and seemingly endless material food and other supplies to the protestors. The value of these things is estimated to be in the millions of HK$. Though Obama has denied their involvement in the movement, there are various links and actually in some instances the Americans have confessed they are the string-pulling puppet masters.
Sixth, their bizzare protests have already deepened the divide in the community where people tend to be more vocal , less tolerant, more violent, and friends who hold different opinions split, families are broken

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## terranMarine

The British snob thinks his little island is still influential as the days of the British Empire. A significant power so to speak, but we all fail to see what those influences are. 

When i look at cultural influence, Japanese animation has achieved global influence. American culture is also spread globally needless to say. Even China has global influence when everybody thinks about every thing is made in China. The dude was very surprised to find out he owned a Chinese brand drone rather an American one. Guess he never would have guessed China does make qualitative design products and software. Many Westerners including himself using Chinese software without realizing . The only thing he seems to be proud of is the so called British influence in foreign domestic affairs. Is HK the only city the British can try to influence? It's becoming a disappointment if those protesters are now criticizing the British for the lack of support. Truth be told England is not that significant as he tries to project this kind of view. The guy is probably nostalgic of the British Empire when English people can really brag about global influence. Now it's just a small island which almost lost Scotland ironically. Oh did i mention England lost a lot of economic cooperation with China because of the Dalai Lama, so this time the British refused to meet the old geezer in favor for a better relation with China. Wow what happened to the powerful British influence? To me England bowed down to China

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## AgentOrange

terranMarine said:


> The British snob thinks his little island is still influential as the days of the British Empire. A significant power so to speak, but we all fail to see what those influences are.
> 
> When i look at cultural influence, Japanese animation has achieved global influence. American culture is also spread globally needless to say. Even China has global influence when everybody thinks about every thing is made in China. The dude was very surprised to find out he owned a Chinese brand drone rather an American one. Guess he never would have guessed China does make qualitative design products and software. Many Westerners including himself using Chinese software without realizing . The only thing he seems to be proud of is the so called British influence in foreign domestic affairs. Is HK the only city the British can try to influence? It's becoming a disappointment if those protesters are now criticizing the British for the lack of support. Truth be told England is not that significant as he tries to project this kind of view. The guy is probably nostalgic of the British Empire when English people can really brag about global influence. Now it's just a small island which almost lost Scotland ironically. Oh did i mention England lost a lot of economic cooperation with China because of the Dalai Lama, so this time the British refused to meet the old geezer in favor for a better relation with China. Wow what happened to the powerful British influence? To me England bowed down to China



Spot on. An article from last year showing China's influence over Britain. Power talks. Deluded British bullsh1t walks. 

David Cameron to distance Britain from Dalai Lama during China visit | Politics | The Guardian

A quote from the article:

"David Cameron will distance Britain from the Dalai Lama during a trip to China next week as the price for restoring full business and diplomatic relations with Beijing."

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## terranMarine

AgentOrange said:


> Spot on. An article from last year showing China's influence over Britain. Power talks. Deluded British bullsh1t walks.
> 
> David Cameron to distance Britain from Dalai Lama during China visit | Politics | The Guardian
> 
> A quote from the article:
> 
> "David Cameron will distance Britain from the Dalai Lama during a trip to China next week as the price for restoring full business and diplomatic relations with Beijing."



 Didn't Cameron tried to persuade China not to execute the British national, did that even work? The poor dude got the bullet, so much for British exercising influence in Chinese internal affairs

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## bolo

BoQ77 said:


> Let occupy Hanoi. Is there some secret agent to follow me on Internet? Oh no. We always could occupy Hanoi.
> Our protest right is approved by Congress.
> LOL.


approved by congress means it's not a real protest.


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## mike2000

AgentOrange said:


> Spot on. An article from last year showing China's influence over Britain. Power talks. Deluded British bullsh1t walks.
> 
> David Cameron to distance Britain from Dalai Lama during China visit | Politics | The Guardian
> 
> A quote from the article:
> 
> "David Cameron will distance Britain from the Dalai Lama during a trip to China next week as the price for restoring full business and diplomatic relations with Beijing."



loool what type of logic are you using here man? and what point are you trying to make? Truth be told, you shouldn't even be posting the link you just posted, since it instead shows that what i was saying is even more true. Look at it this way bro, how is our leader deciding not to meet the Dalai lama link with China interfering in our internal Affairs?lol Instead, our leaders should never have met the Dalai Lama in the first place, since he is considered a seperatist by China(similar to a traitor/ennemy of state), so if you really had the power as you seem to think, then no country would have ever dared harbour/meet such a seperatist figure in the first place(much less countries who have close trade links with your country, like the U.S, U.K, France, Japan, etc). So our leaders meeting the Dalai Lama in the first place is already a failure for Chinas government 'influence'. The hell, he has even been living in your neighbouring country India now for decades without you people ever being able to do anything about it. If you cant even exert influence/pressure on a much weaker neghbour of yours then how do you expect to ever influence our internal affairs giving we are much wealthier/developed country? lol Lets say the U.S/western country was in china's situation , can you imagine the U.S/west ever allowing a seperatist tolive freely and propagate negative news/call for protests againt the U.S say in Mexico? lool That wont ever happen, the hell, just look at eduard snowden and Julian assange who daredgo against the U.S government and constituted a threat to U.S security(though they dont even compare to Dalai lama seperatist tendency as a threat), the former is still hiding in Russia after Hong Kong-China got too scared of the U.S to be courageous enough to allow him to stay in China(though had it been the U.S then of course they would have be more than happy to welcome such a chinese dissident to seek refuge/protection in the U.S.lol), so thats why he went to Russia , at least though our governments despise the Russians, we still respect them because they have balls(even though they are far more weaker economically). Why didnt China allow snowden to seek refuge in China like the U.S happily does with Chinese dissidents? We all know the answer. As for the second one(Julian assange) he is still hold up in Ecuadorian embassy here in U.K for years now he hasnt even been able to see the outside world as he cant even leave the place for fear of being arrested and 'put on trial' alias rape charges  for leaking government files/secrets to the public and 'harming U.S/western interests'. 

Now thats how a real power is exercised, apart from Russia, i dont see any major power out there who is strong/willing enough to stand up to our governments in the west/U.S and welcome our dissidents openly like we do with other developing countries(china included). So on this one i must say i admire/respect the Russians(they even went as far as killing Alexander Litvinienko here in London, who was a fugitive officer of the Russian FSB secret service and he was working for our secret service, but twas working for our secret services, those Russian bastards.), they still got those soviets era guts to challenge us openly like we do with them(kinda like tit for tat) Cant say the same for the Chinese though(who got too scared to even host Snowden who's 'security/freedom' was being threatened by the U.S and its allies). To be honest, China is trying/growing fast though still being a developing/relatively poor country(about $7000 GDP per capital), but you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong, and much less being able to inlfuence the internal affairs of we in the west/U.S. You still have a long wayyy to go in terms of learning how to do covert operations overseas/forment internal unrest/issues like we in the west/U.S have been doing for decades now.. Note im just making an observation, nothing personal. Since all what i stated is just our governments foreign policies, most of which i dont support/im against.


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## mike2000

terranMarine said:


> Didn't Cameron tried to persuade China not to execute the British national, did that even work? The poor dude got the bullet, so much for British exercising influence in Chinese internal affairs



For our governments to have even stated that and pressured China not to execute him (which made headlines news the world over by the way) to me shouldnt even had happned in the first place. How many Chinese have been imprisoned in the west for crimes without the Chinese government even knwoing about/protesting at all? lool The answer to this is all Chinse citizen who commit crimes abroad are not even talked about at all unlike western citizens who if they travel to any country in the world(China included) and commit a crime and are imprisoned/executed, then it will make headline news the world over. Meanwhile,Other non western countries, its not the case at all, since when it happens, nobody eve gives a shit/cares to talk about them. 
The World is really unfair.


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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> For our governments to have even stated that and pressured China not to execute him (which made headlines news the world over by the way) to me shouldnt even had happned in the first place. How many Chinese have been imprisoned in the west for crimes without the Chinese government even knwoing about/protesting at all? lool The answer to this is all Chinse citizen who commit crimes abroad are not even talked about at all unlike western citizens who if they travel to any country in the world(China included) and commit a crime and are imprisoned/executed, then it will make headline news the world over. Meanwhile,Other non western countries, its not the case at all, since when it happens, nobody eve gives a shit/cares to talk about them.
> The World is really unfair.



It made the news because no Western countries execute people for drug smuggling and other non-violent offences whereas China does and did. Otherwise, I don't think there would have been any public pressure. Similar to western news talks about westerners in trouble overseas. Chinese news has plenty of articles about Chinese people who get in trouble overseas. Just because you're completely ignorant of Chinese affairs doesn't mean it isn't happening. I mean, you are aware there are a multitude of Chinese newspapers and news sites that focus on Chinese matters and don't give a crap about what happens to random westerners in Chinese prisons right? I mean, you understand that the one or two news sites you visit aren't the only ones on planet earth?

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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> loool what type of logic are you using here man? and what point are you trying to make? Truth be told, you shouldn't even be posting the link you just posted, since it instead shows that what i was saying is even more true. Look at it this way bro, how is our leader deciding not to meet the Dalai lama link with China interfering in our internal Affairs?lol Instead, our leaders should never have met the Dalai Lama in the first place, since he is considered a seperatist by China(similar to a traitor/ennemy of state), so if you really had the power as you seem to think, then no country would have ever dared harbour/meet such a seperatist figure in the first place(much less countries who have close trade links with your country, like the U.S, U.K, France, Japan, etc). So our leaders meeting the Dalai Lama in the first place is already a failure for Chinas government 'influence'. The hell, he has even been living in your neighbouring country India now for decades without you people ever being able to do anything about it. If you cant even exert influence/pressure on a much weaker neghbour of yours then how do you expect to ever influence our internal affairs giving we are much wealthier/developed country? lol Lets say the U.S/western country was in china's situation , can you imagine the U.S/west ever allowing a seperatist tolive freely and propagate negative news/call for protests againt the U.S say in Mexico? lool That wont ever happen, the hell, just look at eduard snowden and Julian assange who daredgo against the U.S government and constituted a threat to U.S security(though they dont even compare to Dalai lama seperatist tendency as a threat), the former is still hiding in Russia after Hong Kong-China got too scared of the U.S to be courageous enough to allow him to stay in China(though had it been the U.S then of course they would have be more than happy to welcome such a chinese dissident to seek refuge/protection in the U.S.lol), so thats why he went to Russia , at least though our governments despise the Russians, we still respect them because they have balls(even though they are far more weaker economically). Why didnt China allow snowden to seek refuge in China like the U.S happily does with Chinese dissidents? We all know the answer. As for the second one(Julian assange) he is still hold up in Ecuadorian embassy here in U.K for years now he hasnt even been able to see the outside world as he cant even leave the place for fear of being arrested and 'put on trial' alias rape charges  for leaking government files/secrets to the public and 'harming U.S/western interests'.
> 
> Now thats how a real power is exercised, apart from Russia, i dont see any major power out there who is strong/willing enough to stand up to our governments in the west/U.S and welcome our dissidents openly like we do with other developing countries(china included). So on this one i must say i admire/respect the Russians(they even went as far as killing Alexander Litvinienko here in London, who was a fugitive officer of the Russian FSB secret service and he was working for our secret service, but twas working for our secret services, those Russian bastards.), they still got those soviets era guts to challenge us openly like we do with them(kinda like tit for tat) Cant say the same for the Chinese though(who got too scared to even host Snowden who's 'security/freedom' was being threatened by the U.S and its allies). To be honest, China is trying/growing fast though still being a developing/relatively poor country(about $7000 GDP per capital), but you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong, and much less being able to inlfuence the internal affairs of we in the west/U.S. You still have a long wayyy to go in terms of learning how to do covert operations overseas/forment internal unrest/issues like we in the west/U.S have been doing for decades now.. Note im just making an observation, nothing personal. Since all what i stated is just our governments foreign policies, most of which i dont support/im against.



You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?

As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.

With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again? 

As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "*you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong*." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?

People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence. 

So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.

P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea.  Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.

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## terranMarine

If China had succumbed to American pressure, HK police would have taken Snowden into custody and deported him back to US.
Instead order came from Beijing to HK for letting him travel to Moscow.

On June 22—18 days after publication of Snowden's NSA documents began—U.S. officials revoked his passport.[205] On June 23, Snowden boarded the commercial Aeroflot flight SU213 to Moscow, accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks.[206][207] Hong Kong authorities said that Snowden had not been detained as requested by the United States, because the United States' extradition request had not fully complied with Hong Kong law,[208][209] and there was no legal basis to prevent Snowden from leaving.[210][211][Notes 1] On June 24, U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said "we're just not buying that this was a technical decision by a Hong Kong immigration official. This was a deliberate choice by the government to release a fugitive despite a valid arrest warrant … though the Privacy Act prohibits me from talking about Mr. Snowden's passport specifically, I can say that the Hong Kong authorities were well aware of our interest in Mr. Snowden and had plenty of time to prohibit his travel."[214] That same day, Julian Assange said that WikiLeaks had paid for Snowden's lodging in Hong Kong and his flight out.[215]

Now i'd like to see some British influence on how to "rescue" the killer of two Indonesian women, you know the British banker

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## AgentOrange

terranMarine said:


> If China had succumbed to American pressure, HK police would have taken Snowden into custody and deported him back to US.
> Instead order came from Beijing to HK for letting him travel to Moscow.
> 
> On June 22—18 days after publication of Snowden's NSA documents began—U.S. officials revoked his passport.[205] On June 23, Snowden boarded the commercial Aeroflot flight SU213 to Moscow, accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks.[206][207] Hong Kong authorities said that Snowden had not been detained as requested by the United States, because the United States' extradition request had not fully complied with Hong Kong law,[208][209] and there was no legal basis to prevent Snowden from leaving.[210][211][Notes 1] On June 24, U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said "we're just not buying that this was a technical decision by a Hong Kong immigration official. This was a deliberate choice by the government to release a fugitive despite a valid arrest warrant … though the Privacy Act prohibits me from talking about Mr. Snowden's passport specifically, I can say that the Hong Kong authorities were well aware of our interest in Mr. Snowden and had plenty of time to prohibit his travel."[214] That same day, Julian Assange said that WikiLeaks had paid for Snowden's lodging in Hong Kong and his flight out.[215]
> 
> Now i'd like to see some British influence on how to "rescue" the killer of two Indonesian women, you know the British banker



He's actually going to completely misconstrue what happened and declare China's acquisition of Snowden's secrets and Snowden's ultimate refuge in Russia as a great victory for the influential and powerful United Kingdom. For some people, it's hard to accept that their crappy little island is powerless and irrelevant.  Even though the truth hurts, it doesn't make it any less true.

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## terranMarine

AgentOrange said:


> He's actually going to completely misconstrue what happened and declare China's acquisition of Snowden's secrets and Snowden's ultimate refuge in Russia as a great victory for the influential and powerful United Kingdom. For some people, it's hard to accept that their crappy little island is powerless and irrelevant.  Even though the truth hurts, it doesn't make it any less true.


Definitely, the guy must be daydreaming of the British Empire influence. That's long gone, we are living in the 21st Century. Recent events showed they almost lost Scotland, the EU is telling the Brits to shut up and pay the bill, Merkel also would love to see UK out if Cameron is having issues with the immigration policy. It appears UK is not that relevant as the poor chap wished it to be. 

Indeed the Lama is trying to beg China for letting him return back to Tibet, i guess his host country isn't the utopia he thought it was. There's no need for us to kill the old geezer, his time is running out that is why he wishes to die in his birth place. To no avail his callings are ignored

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## AgentOrange

terranMarine said:


> Definitely, the guy must be daydreaming of the British Empire influence. That's long gone, we are living in the 21st Century. Recent events showed they almost lost Scotland, the EU is telling the Brits to shut up and pay the bill, Merkel also would love to see UK out if Cameron is having issues with the immigration policy. It appears UK is not that relevant as the poor chap wished it to be.
> 
> Indeed the Lama is trying to beg China for letting him return back to Tibet, i guess his host country isn't the utopia he thought it was. There's no need for us to kill the old geezer, his time is running out that is why he wishes to die in his birth place. To no avail his callings are ignored



Yep, and there are threats of *another* Scottish independence referendum if the UK becomes isolationist and backs out of the EU. Some influence eh? Stuck on a sh1tty little island only to realize that part of your sh1tty little island doesn't even want anything to do with you. The best thing the Brits can do is to die quietly in the corner while Islamists take over what little territory they have left. No more dreams of grandeur. Just sleep.

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## terranMarine

AgentOrange said:


> Yep, and there are threats of *another* Scottish independence referendum if the UK becomes isolationist and backs out of the EU. Some influence eh? Stuck on a sh1tty little island only to realize that part of your sh1tty little island doesn't even want anything to do with you. The best thing the Brits can do is to die quietly in the corner while Islamists take over what little territory they have left. No more dreams of grandeur. Just sleep.


The only pride they have left is the mastering of turbofans, that's not what i would classify as global influence *yawns*
Even the Japanese have achieved that through animation, and for a short period of time the Koreans with their gangnam style  had spread through the globe causing a massive hysteria. Face it the British has no global cultural influence, hardly a global political leverage. The arrogance of the British Empire must still be living on in his mind, he should just move on and accept reality.

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## northeast

Come on,Who really cares,a bunch of baby cowards and bitches.

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## mike2000

terranMarine said:


> If China had succumbed to American pressure, HK police would have taken Snowden into custody and deported him back to US.
> Instead order came from Beijing to HK for letting him travel to Moscow.
> 
> On June 22—18 days after publication of Snowden's NSA documents began—U.S. officials revoked his passport.[205] On June 23, Snowden boarded the commercial Aeroflot flight SU213 to Moscow, accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks.[206][207] Hong Kong authorities said that Snowden had not been detained as requested by the United States, because the United States' extradition request had not fully complied with Hong Kong law,[208][209] and there was no legal basis to prevent Snowden from leaving.[210][211][Notes 1] On June 24, U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said "we're just not buying that this was a technical decision by a Hong Kong immigration official. This was a deliberate choice by the government to release a fugitive despite a valid arrest warrant … though the Privacy Act prohibits me from talking about Mr. Snowden's passport specifically, I can say that the Hong Kong authorities were well aware of our interest in Mr. Snowden and had plenty of time to prohibit his travel."[214] That same day, Julian Assange said that WikiLeaks had paid for Snowden's lodging in Hong Kong and his flight out.[215]
> 
> Now i'd like to see some British influence on how to "rescue" the killer of two Indonesian women, you know the British banker



lolYou still dont get my point. For China not to have taken Eduard snowden and accepted him to come seek refuge on chinese soil in itself already shows your government was scared of U.S reaction. If you indeed were that powerful as you said you will have obviously allowed him to come seek permanent refuge in China itself, but your government didnt for obvious reasons. Which is why he decided it will be better for him to travelto Russia, since the Russians openly admitted they would grant him permanent refuge/even residency and protect him from any U.S prosecution. Now thats what i expected from China, to be honest i was hoping/thinking your government will grant him refuge just like the U.S has been doing with all your dissidents for decades, but the one opportunity your government had, they got scared of taking it. Let me just ask you a simple question: Lets assume Snowden was a chinese and did that to chinas government, then fled to the U.S , do you think the U.S wouldnt have given him refuge and openly support him? As i said, only Russia has the balls to play the tit for tat game we have been playing with them for decades now(like they proved by allowing snowden to seek permanent refuge in Russia openly unlike China).. China is still trying to learn how to play this game.

You didnt even tell me why your government has been unable to exert pressure over an immediate much weaker country India for them allowing their soil to be used for Tiebtans who frequently protests against Chinas 'dictatorial regime/oppression of Tibetans' in Tibet. If a seperatist leader/traitor as your government claims, can be allowed to freely live in your immediate neighbourhood, then its enough prove by itself that your government has failed in this department. They even hold rallies veery year when your prime ministers/president Vists India.lool How come China hasnt force India to stop giving refuge/protection to this seperatists/self proclaimed governemnt in exile? Can you imagine a U.S seperatist leader living freely in Mexico for decades and his followers keep poking/holding protests when U.S president visits Mexico?lol Mexico will be bomb back to the stone age if they ever tried that believe me. As i said before China still has a long way to go before they can truly know how to use their economic(and growing military) power to coerce countries/influence internal affairs of countries like the U.S has been doing to China for decades now. Indias harbouring of tibetans dissidents/seperatists is a clear illustration of that. I dont know how you people can say that Dalai lama wanting to return back to China is a victory for China.. He shouldnt have been living in your neighbourhood and carrying out his activvities in the first place. Its indeed a failure.If you cant see that, then i dont know what else will be considered a foreign policy failure for you to be honest. Im sure if Russia had been in your shoes, they will have long got rid of him(like they did with Alexander Litvinienko in London which i far far more a daunting/difficult task than taking on the Dalai Lama in India).


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## mike2000

terranMarine said:


> The only pride they have left is the mastering of turbofans, that's not what i would classify as global influence *yawns*
> Even the Japanese have achieved that through animation, and for a short period of time the Koreans with their gangnam style  had spread through the globe causing a massive hysteria. Face it the British has no global cultural influence, hardly a global political leverage. The arrogance of the British Empire must still be living on in his mind, he should just move on and accept reality.



lool you talking of Britsh cultural influence bros? Do you even know that there are many T.V shows/programs in the U.S who mimick Britsh T.V shows? and there has been several british musicians/artists who even topped american tv charts(you just might not know about them since we and the U.S are quite similar, so some people might not even know the difference), moreover our language alone is spoke the world over as defacto world language(there is no further prove a country influence than when a foreign country speaks your language, imagine Chinese was spoken all over Asia, can you imagine how you people here will be boasting about it day and night? lol . You shouldnt even talk of cultutral influence, since we have wayyyyyy more than China. You should have talked about another field which china might be ahead, not cultural influence in which China lags wayyy behind even its east asian peers(mainly due to the communist party past cultural revolution which destroyed almodst all chinese traditional culture, luckily for Tiwan it escaped that onslaught) talk less of Britain.

China should be the one dominating east Asia cultural cultural scene, not South Korea or Japan since both countries derived much of their language and culture from China. So it should instead be a shame you are now lagging behind them, and your youths are now being influenced by them instead of it being the opposite since you are the bigger one.

This is something your own most nationalistic media acknowledged not me

Beijing needs crash course from S.Korea in soft power PSY-chology - Global Times

5 Great British Shows America Got Right With Remakes And 5 They Cocked Up


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## cnleio

Ladies and Gentlemen, a good news ... soon HongKong police start to clean all protesters on streets ... next week watch the HongKong Show on time.


_APEC is over, HongKong police get ready ... !_

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## mike2000

AgentOrange said:


> He's actually going to completely misconstrue what happened and declare China's acquisition of Snowden's secrets and Snowden's ultimate refuge in Russia as a great victory for the influential and powerful United Kingdom. For some people, it's hard to accept that their crappy little island is powerless and irrelevant.  Even though the truth hurts, it doesn't make it any less true.



It was a failure, China should have given him refuge and openly supported him like our governments in the U.S/west have been doing with your dissident for decades. Moreover as i said, the protest in Hong Kong were not entirely an internaa matter as even your most nationalistic Chinese member here(Biedou) admitted, it was financed/encourgaed by foreign powers as well, this is why i said your secret serviced failed on preventing this miserably. I dont understand how you people cant even recognise this Or you are just being too nationalistic(not more than Beidou who himself admitted this.lool)I thought one chinese members here posted pictures of U.S officilas/agents meeting with Occupy Hoing kong activist before the Protests. Yet you still claim its all an internal affair?lol Ok if thats what you people truly think, then good for you then, stop blaming the protetsers as traitors/foreign slaves then if thats the case. On one side you claim we had no influence over the protests and on another one you claim the protesters are foolish youths who are being fooled/manipulated by foreign agents/powers(like Hong Long Chief executive himself admitted). So im confused, which one is it finally man?

Note that if you have red my posts on here , im actually against our governments foreign policies of getting involve in other soverign countries internal affairs in the first place, i believe each country should be allowed to solve their problems themselves, we have our own iissues to sort out internally as wel. But our leaders in the west/U.S are already used to telling others what to do/getting involve in others internal affairs for a long time now, guess old habits die hard. Anyway it geo politics and i know its never a clean game. So theres nothing much we civilians can do about it other than analysze how events unfold/play out. So im just making observations, not taking sides.


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## mike2000

terranMarine said:


> Definitely, the guy must be daydreaming of the British Empire influence. That's long gone, we are living in the 21st Century. Recent events showed they almost lost Scotland, the EU is telling the Brits to shut up and pay the bill, Merkel also would love to see UK out if Cameron is having issues with the immigration policy. It appears UK is not that relevant as the poor chap wished it to be.
> 
> Indeed the Lama is trying to beg China for letting him return back to Tibet, i guess his host country isn't the utopia he thought it was. There's no need for us to kill the old geezer, his time is running out that is why he wishes to die in his birth place. To no avail his callings are ignored




Check my posts above, morever you havent been able to ever influence our internal affairs like we do with you regularly, even when we had riots in U.K your government never uttered a single words on this. Just shows they know they cant change anything/influence anything on our soil. Moreover while we are talking the U.S is taking even more open approach in Hong LKong than us lately, read the following news: 

*US Congress Tables Bill Seeking To Monitor Democratic Progress In Hong Kong*





The U.S. congress has tabled a bill calls for the country to monitor democratic development in Hong Kong. The city has been rocked by pro-democracy protests for the last six weeks. Getty Images
HONG KONG -- A bipartisan bill was tabled in the U.S. Congress Thursday, seeking to monitor the development of democracy and political rights in Hong Kong under a 1992 law, according to reports.

The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Bill was submitted to both the House of Representatives and the Senate, and called for the revival of annual reports by the U.S. government to Congress on political developments in Hong Kong, according to Radio Free Asia. 

“Hong Kong’s autonomy and freedoms -- essential to its relations with the US -- are under threat from China,” said Senator Sherrod Brown, a Democrat and co-chairman of the commission, according to a report from the South China Morning Post. “At this critical time, we must strongly support the universal rights of the people of Hong Kong, including free and fair elections in 2017 and beyond.

“Our bipartisan bill would ensure that the United States can continue to monitor Hong Kong while ensuring that its democracy and freedoms remain a cornerstone of US policy.”

Under the proposed bill, the state department would be required to reinstate and strengthen an annual report to Congress on the situation in Hong Kong, according to the Journal of Turkish Weekly.

The legislation would also "require the [U.S.] President to certify that Hong Kong is sufficiently autonomous before enacting any new laws or agreements affording Hong Kong different treatment from the People's Republic of China."

The committee's move comes as relations between the U.S. and China appear to have at least partially thawed, with the announcement earlier this week of a historic deal between the two countries to limit greenhouse gas emissions and tackle climate change.

China has repeatedly expressed concern that the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong are the result of “foreign interference,” a claim Chinese President Xi Jinping repeated at the APEC summit this week. President Barack Obama specifically denied such assertions at the same summit this week.

“Our primary message has been to make sure that violence is avoided as the people of Hong Kong try to sort through what the next phase is of their relationship to the mainland,” Obama said in response to reporters' questions at the U.S. embassy in Beijing, according to Politico.

Lawmakers in Hong Kong have told the International Business Times, before and during the outbreak of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong, that China is deeply concerned at the prospect of allowing the city's chief executive to be elected without political vetting from Beijing. According to highly placed sources in the city's political structure, China's Communist Party government considers fully democratic elections as an invitation to the U.S. or U.K. to influence the city's political development.

Concern about foreign influence is widespread in China. Many Chinese online commenters, some of whom are suspected to be employed by Chinese government agencies, cite the nineteenth-century Opium Wars between the U.K. and China as a reason for their distrust of Western countries.

China's state-run People's Daily newspaper published an editorial in October, which stated: “Of course, the US will not admit it is manipulating 'Occupy Central', just as they will not admit it is controlling other anti-Chinese forces. They will legitimize their moves under the values of 'democracy, freedom and human rights',” according to the SCMP. 

In October, U.S. politicians and administration officials called on Washington to become more vocal in its support of pro-democracy forces in Hong Kong, describing local democracy aspirations as an increasingly important human rights issue, according to the Wall Street Journal. 

Pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong have occupied sites around the city for six weeks, and are now facing the prospect of eviction, after a local court ruling decreed that bailiffs and police could take action to clear protesters and their barricades from the streets.


US Congress Tables Bill Seeking To Monitor Democratic Progress In Hong Kong


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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> It was a failure, China should have given him refuge and openly supported him like our governments in the U.S/west have been doing with your dissident for decades. Moreover as i said, the protest in Hong Kong were not entirely an internaa matter as even your most nationalistic Chinese member here(Biedou) admitted, it was financed/encourgaed by foreign powers as well, this is why i said your secret serviced failed on preventing this miserably. I dont understand how you people cant even recognise this Or you are just being too nationalistic(not more than Beidou who himself admitted this.lool)I thought one chinese members here posted pictures of U.S officilas/agents meeting with Occupy Hoing kong activist before the Protests. Yet you still claim its all an internal affair?lol Ok if thats what you people truly think, then good for you then, stop blaming the protetsers as traitors/foreign slaves then if thats the case. On one side you claim we had no influence over the protests and on another one you claim the protesters are foolish youths who are being fooled/manipulated by foreign agents/powers(like Hong Long Chief executive himself admitted). So im confused, which one is it finally man?
> 
> Note that if you have red my posts on here , im actually against our governments foreign policies of getting involve in other soverign countries internal affairs in the first place, i believe each country should be allowed to solve their problems themselves, we have our own iissues to sort out internally as wel. But our leaders in the west/U.S are already used to telling others what to do/getting involve in others internal affairs for a long time now, guess old habits die hard. Anyway it geo politics and i know its never a clean game. So theres nothing much we civilians can do about it other than analysze how events unfold/play out. So im just making observations, not taking sides.



I'm going to copy/paste the responses that I wrote to you earlier since you completely avoided addressing any of them while still repeating the same tired arguments that I had already previously addressed (and that you avoided).  Here you go:

Part 1)
You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?

As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.

With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again? 

As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "*you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong*." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?

People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence. 

So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.

P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea.  Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.  

Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5

Part 2) You wrote:
"For our governments to have even stated that and pressured China not to execute him (which made headlines news the world over by the way) to me shouldnt even had happned in the first place. How many Chinese have been imprisoned in the west for crimes without the Chinese government even knwoing about/protesting at all? lool The answer to this is all Chinse citizen who commit crimes abroad are not even talked about at all unlike western citizens who if they travel to any country in the world(China included) and commit a crime and are imprisoned/executed, then it will make headline news the world over. Meanwhile,Other non western countries, its not the case at all, since when it happens, nobody eve gives a shit/cares to talk about them. The World is really unfair."

Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5

I responded (and you avoided):
It made the news because no Western countries execute people for drug smuggling and other non-violent offences whereas China does and did. Otherwise, I don't think there would have been any public pressure. Similar to western news talks about westerners in trouble overseas. Chinese news has plenty of articles about Chinese people who get in trouble overseas. Just because you're completely ignorant of Chinese affairs doesn't mean it isn't happening. I mean, you are aware there are a multitude of Chinese newspapers and news sites that focus on Chinese matters and don't give a crap about what happens to random westerners in Chinese prisons right? I mean, you understand that the one or two news sites you visit aren't the only ones on planet earth?


One last point about Snowden - it was a huge intelligence windfall for China and one of the worst intelligence disasters in recent Western history. There's literally no way you can spin that as a "win" even though your hurt British pride is telling you to do so. Even your beloved Western media decried it as a huge catastrophe. But anyways, from now on, I'm going to keep reposting my old responses to you until you are capable of addressing them point by point. Show me that I'm not debating with a wall and I'll spend more effort on your "replies."

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## mike2000

AgentOrange said:


> I'm going to copy/paste the responses that I wrote to you earlier since you completely avoided addressing any of them while still repeating the same tired arguments that I had already previously addressed (and that you avoided).  Here you go:
> 
> Part 1)
> You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?
> 
> As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.
> 
> With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again?
> 
> As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "*you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong*." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?
> 
> People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence.
> 
> So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.
> 
> P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea.  Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.
> 
> Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5
> 
> Part 2) You wrote:
> "For our governments to have even stated that and pressured China not to execute him (which made headlines news the world over by the way) to me shouldnt even had happned in the first place. How many Chinese have been imprisoned in the west for crimes without the Chinese government even knwoing about/protesting at all? lool The answer to this is all Chinse citizen who commit crimes abroad are not even talked about at all unlike western citizens who if they travel to any country in the world(China included) and commit a crime and are imprisoned/executed, then it will make headline news the world over. Meanwhile,Other non western countries, its not the case at all, since when it happens, nobody eve gives a shit/cares to talk about them. The World is really unfair."
> 
> Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5
> 
> I responded (and you avoided):
> It made the news because no Western countries execute people for drug smuggling and other non-violent offences whereas China does and did. Otherwise, I don't think there would have been any public pressure. Similar to western news talks about westerners in trouble overseas. Chinese news has plenty of articles about Chinese people who get in trouble overseas. Just because you're completely ignorant of Chinese affairs doesn't mean it isn't happening. I mean, you are aware there are a multitude of Chinese newspapers and news sites that focus on Chinese matters and don't give a crap about what happens to random westerners in Chinese prisons right? I mean, you understand that the one or two news sites you visit aren't the only ones on planet earth?
> 
> 
> One last point about Snowden - it was a huge intelligence windfall for China and one of the worst intelligence disasters in recent Western history. There's literally no way you can spin that as a "win" even though your hurt British pride is telling you to do so. Even your beloved Western media decried it as a huge catastrophe. But anyways, from now on, I'm going to keep reposting my old responses to you until you are capable of addressing them point by point. Show me that I'm not debating with a wall and I'll spend more effort on your "replies."



lool ok, if thats what you think, then i respect your opinion bro. at least we can agree to disagree respectfully. each p;erson has his own point of view. So was nice exchanging points with you on this.

For now, im just following U.S congress bill on Hong Kong 'democracy/freedom' waiting to see what happens next.

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## AgentOrange

mike2000 said:


> lool ok, if thats what you think, then i respect your opinion bro. at least we can agree to disagree respectfully. each p;erson has his own point of view. So was nice exchanging points with you on this.
> 
> For now, im just following U.S congress bill on Hong Kong 'democracy/freedom' waiting to see what happens next.



Cheers friend.

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## j20

HK终究会沦为一个二线城市，它的繁荣是历史的原因，HK发展的初始资金来源是100年前英国对中国的鸦片贸易所得，深圳、广州、成都、武汉、上海、天津、北京、西安都比它更有优势


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## Keel

" US Congress Tables Bill Seeking To Monitor Democratic Progress In Hong Kong"

The majority of HKers should stage a protest against US' meddling into China's internal affairs

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## AgentOrange

Keel said:


> " US Congress Tables Bill Seeking To Monitor Democratic Progress In Hong Kong"
> 
> The majority of HKers should stage a protest against US' meddling into China's internal affairs



What's the point? That bill is political grandstanding for a domestic audience and there's no way the US can effectively enforce any measures to monitor anything. Aside from sending some stupid interns to take pictures and post it on social media (whilst ever mindful that they don't get their asses kicked or deported).

As I said, Hong Kongers have better things to do than to engage in large idiotic protests. Such as making money and remaining relevant before Shanghai eats their lunch, economically.

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## BoQ77

If I were Beijing authority, I would never fear THE TALK
*---------------*
*Hong Kong activists denied entry to Beijing*
Natalie DiBlasio, USA TODAY 12:32 p.m. EST November 15, 2014

Hong Kong students who have led protests opposing Beijing's decision to screen political candidates were denied access to Beijing, where they had planned to meet with top Chinese officials.

Alex Chow, Nathan Law and Eason Chung — members of a group that played a main role in the protests — *were denied boarding passes for a Cathay Pacific flight and told their documents that would allow them to travel to Beijing were invalid.*

When the flight took off, the seats booked by the student leaders were draped with a sign that reads: "SEAT INOP, DO NOT OCCUPY."

The students had planned to fly to Beijing to seek talks with Premier Li Keqiang and others.

Since late September, students have been occupying streets in three business and shopping districts in Hong Kong to express their objection to the Beijing decision to have a panel screen candidates for the territory's inaugural 2017 election for its chief officer, but the Chinese authorities have denounced the gatherings as illegal and showed no sign of budging.


Beijing has in the past confiscated or refused to renew travel permits for a number of Hong Kong activists, banning them from entering mainland China.

Chow and his two deputies arrived at the Hong Kong International Airport amid a large crowd of supporters, prompting security officers to set up barriers to control the crowd so as not to disrupt the flow of travelers through the facility.

The crowd sang songs and chanted slogans, and about 80 of them held up yellow umbrellas, which have become a symbol for the pro-democracy movement.


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## terranMarine

BBC News - Hong Kong protest leaders denied Beijing flight

Three pro-democracy student leaders from Hong Kong have been stopped from boarding a plane to Beijing.

They had hoped to meet China's leaders as part of their push for greater democracy, but were told at the airport that their travel permits were invalid.

Protesters have been camped out on the streets of the territory since late September.

They want Beijing to allow more candidates to stand in the territory's next leadership election in 2017.

The group were greeted at the airport by fellow democracy activists, who unfurled yellow umbrellas - a symbol of Hong Kong's democracy movement.

They were led by Alex Chow, who heads the Hong Kong Federation of Students, which has played a key role mobilising the protests

The three said they wanted to talk directly with national leaders because so far, the Hong Kong government has told them it is powerless to offer them any concessions.

A spokeswoman for the students said they were prevent from getting on the plane because their return permits had been cancelled.

Beijing has in the past blocked Hong Kong activists from travelling to mainland China.

'Naive'
The BBC's John Sudworth in China says few observers thought the student leaders had any chance of making it out of the arrival hall at Beijing airport, let alone securing a meeting with Chinese Premier Li Keqiang.

An editorial in China's state-run Global Times, written before the activists were stopped, said the group were "naive".

Hong Kong's Occupy Central movement had "failed", the editorial concluded. The protests drew tens of thousands to the streets at their peak.

A few hundred people remain at three key protest sites in organised "tent cities", complete with infrastructure such as food stalls, toilets and study areas.

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## AgentOrange

terranMarine said:


> BBC News - Hong Kong protest leaders denied Beijing flight
> 
> Three pro-democracy student leaders from Hong Kong have been stopped from boarding a plane to Beijing.
> 
> They had hoped to meet China's leaders as part of their push for greater democracy, but were told at the airport that their travel permits were invalid.
> 
> Protesters have been camped out on the streets of the territory since late September.
> 
> They want Beijing to allow more candidates to stand in the territory's next leadership election in 2017.
> 
> The group were greeted at the airport by fellow democracy activists, who unfurled yellow umbrellas - a symbol of Hong Kong's democracy movement.
> 
> They were led by Alex Chow, who heads the Hong Kong Federation of Students, which has played a key role mobilising the protests
> 
> The three said they wanted to talk directly with national leaders because so far, the Hong Kong government has told them it is powerless to offer them any concessions.
> 
> A spokeswoman for the students said they were prevent from getting on the plane because their return permits had been cancelled.
> 
> Beijing has in the past blocked Hong Kong activists from travelling to mainland China.
> 
> 'Naive'
> The BBC's John Sudworth in China says few observers thought the student leaders had any chance of making it out of the arrival hall at Beijing airport, let alone securing a meeting with Chinese Premier Li Keqiang.
> 
> An editorial in China's state-run Global Times, written before the activists were stopped, said the group were "naive".
> 
> Hong Kong's Occupy Central movement had "failed", the editorial concluded. The protests drew tens of thousands to the streets at their peak.
> 
> A few hundred people remain at three key protest sites in organised "tent cities", complete with infrastructure such as food stalls, toilets and study areas.



LMAO. A pathetic endeavor destined to failure from the get go. What world leader would deign to meet with a bunch of retarded students that, given their extracurricular activities, won't even graduate? If any Chinese leader of rank met with those students, he'd be granting them legitimacy. Even a political novice like me can see that. Some leaders these occu-tards have. These brats should go home before their dinner gets cold and their moms whoop their collective butts.

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## terranMarine

AgentOrange said:


> LMAO. A pathetic endeavor destined to failure from the get go. What world leader would deign to meet with a bunch of retarded students that, given their extracurricular activities, won't even graduate? If any Chinese leader of rank met with those students, he'd be granting them legitimacy. Even a political novice like me can see that. Some leaders these occu-tards have. These brats should go home before their dinner gets cold and their moms whoop their collective butts.


 total failure, just making a fool out of themselves. What's next? Occupy Chep Lap Kok?

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## Keel

terranMarine said:


> total failure, just making a fool out of themselves. What's next? Occupy Chep Lap Kok?



That will smell blood
I dont think these stupid cowards will dare to do that
They were still crying like the flow of the Yellow River on the day after the police dropped tear gas on them 
They may be thinking some Ivy league unversities would give them scholarships stuying for free despite their lack-luster academic performances

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## Snomannen

terranMarine said:


> BBC News - Hong Kong protest leaders denied Beijing flight
> 
> Three pro-democracy student leaders from Hong Kong have been stopped from boarding a plane to Beijing.
> 
> They had hoped to meet China's leaders as part of their push for greater democracy, but were told at the airport that their travel permits were invalid.
> 
> Protesters have been camped out on the streets of the territory since late September.
> 
> They want Beijing to allow more candidates to stand in the territory's next leadership election in 2017.
> 
> The group were greeted at the airport by fellow democracy activists, who unfurled yellow umbrellas - a symbol of Hong Kong's democracy movement.
> 
> They were led by Alex Chow, who heads the Hong Kong Federation of Students, which has played a key role mobilising the protests
> 
> The three said they wanted to talk directly with national leaders because so far, the Hong Kong government has told them it is powerless to offer them any concessions.
> 
> A spokeswoman for the students said they were prevent from getting on the plane because their return permits had been cancelled.
> 
> Beijing has in the past blocked Hong Kong activists from travelling to mainland China.
> 
> 'Naive'
> The BBC's John Sudworth in China says few observers thought the student leaders had any chance of making it out of the arrival hall at Beijing airport, let alone securing a meeting with Chinese Premier Li Keqiang.
> 
> An editorial in China's state-run Global Times, written before the activists were stopped, said the group were "naive".
> 
> Hong Kong's Occupy Central movement had "failed", the editorial concluded. The protests drew tens of thousands to the streets at their peak.
> 
> A few hundred people remain at three key protest sites in organised "tent cities", complete with infrastructure such as food stalls, toilets and study areas.



These so-called "leaders" are not even accepted by most of the protectors.

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## bobsm

Those so called "leaders" and their cohorts just ruined their future in China with this childish stunt.

傳中央早訂禁入境五百人名單 - 佔領行動 - 香港新浪新聞

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## TaiShang

AgentOrange said:


> You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?
> 
> As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.
> 
> With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again?
> 
> As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "*you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong*." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?
> 
> People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence.
> 
> So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.
> 
> P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea.  Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice
> 
> A nice overall primary education which the almighty UK apparently lacks. The problem is, the guys insists not to learn.
> from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.





cnleio said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, a good news ... soon HongKong police start to clean all protesters on streets ... next week watch the HongKong Show on time.



Can't wait to see! Will be a lot of fan. HK Police, make them cry a Yellow River! 
_APEC is over, HongKong police get ready ... !_

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## Chinese-Dragon

cnleio said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, a good news ... soon HongKong police start to clean all protesters on streets ... next week watch the HongKong Show on time.
> 
> 
> _APEC is over, HongKong police get ready ... !_



Good news. 

Like the vast majority of Hong Kongers, I voted for the pro-Beijing camp. Which won the vast majority of votes, which is why we control pretty much every important politician, even up to our Chief Executive CY Leung.

So it's good that the HK government (which was voted in by the majority, including myself), will be cleaning up these troublemakers soon.

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## BoQ77

*Hong Kong protesters break into government building*
By James Pomfret

HONG KONG Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:35am GMT


(Reuters) - A small group of Hong Kong pro-democracy protesters broke into the city's legislature via a side door early on Wednesday, and police stopped others forcing their way in as tensions in the Chinese-controlled city escalated following a period of calm.

The flare-up came just hours after court bailiffs managed to clear part of a protest camp in the heart of the city that has been occupied by pro-democracy demonstrators for nearly two months, while leaving most of the main protest site intact.

About 100 riot police with helmets, batons and shields stood guard outside the government building in the early hours of Wednesday, facing off with protesters who are demanding free elections for the city's next leader in 2017.



"Police retreat!" the protesters chanted.

It was the first time protesters had broken into a key public building, defying the expectations of many political analysts who had predicted that Hong Kong's most tenacious and protracted protest movement would slowly wind down.

The escalation came in the early hours of Wednesday when a small group of protesters charged towards the legislature and used metal barricades and concrete tiles to ram a glass side door. They eventually smashed through, with several managing to get inside, according to witnesses.

Scores of riot police, some with shields and helmets, rushed over, using pepper spray and batons to keep other demonstrators from also smashing their way in.

Police raised red signs warning protesters to stay back as the activists held up a wall of umbrellas to defend themselves against the pepper spray.

A democratic lawmaker at the scene, Fernando Cheung, said he and other protesters had tried to stop the small group of radical activists from breaking through.

"This is a very, very isolated incident. I think it's very unfortunate and this is something we don't want to see happen because the movement so far has been very peaceful," he said.

On Tuesday, about 30 court bailiffs arrived at the 33-storey Citic Tower, also in the Admiralty district, to enforce an injunction forbidding street barricades after a request from the building's owners.

A similar injunction has been issued, but not yet enforced, for a street in the gritty district of Mong Kok, across the harbour, which has seen some of the most violent clashes of the past seven weeks.

Hong Kong was returned to China from British colonial rule in 1997 under a "one country, two systems" formula that gives the city more autonomy and freedom than the mainland, with an eventual goal of universal suffrage.

The protesters are demanding open nominations in the city's next election for chief executive

 in 2017. Beijing has said it will allow a vote in 2017, but only between pre-screened candidates.

(Additional reporting by Tyrone Siu; Editing by Anne Marie Roantree and Kevin Liffey)


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## terranMarine

BBC News - Hong Kong bailiffs begin clearing Mong Kok protest site

 so much for British influence

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## Keel

The protesters in HK are lucky to get out of these stupidities and vandalism unscathed 
Ferguson sparks off a nation wide protests and riots again today - USA






















Belgium in these 2 days

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## AgentOrange

terranMarine said:


> BBC News - Hong Kong bailiffs begin clearing Mong Kok protest site
> 
> so much for British influence



Hong Kong bailiffs should clear out the protesters in front of the British Embassy last. Because...British influence and all.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The British consulate wants them to GTFO of there.

This is the typical example of dogs getting abandoned by its master.

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## terranMarine

pointing heavy weaponry against civilians  and they have the nerve to teach us about freedom/democracy/free speech

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## TaiShang

It is very positive that Chinese (HK) police acted professionally and Beijing managed the entire situation as a master strategist. 

Mainland attitude sealed fate of HK protest - Global Times

Hong Kong authorities on Tuesday deployed about 6,000 police officers after a court order authorized the clearance of a protest site which had remained for nearly two months in the district of Mong Kok. Police arrested about 80 protesters who refused to comply with the order, including pro-democracy activist and lawmaker Leung Kwok-hung. There was some inevitable confusion at the site, but the clearance was conducted as smoothly as expected.

With its goals appearing ridiculous and public support quickly diminishing, the Occupy Central campaign has failed. However, it does not mean the forces which plotted and instigated this movement will also lose their place in Hong Kong society. Extreme events like Occupy Central will probably recur.

But the fiasco may after all serve as a bitter lesson for both Hong Kong opposition groups and some Hong Kong residents who feel pity for these protesters. The most crucial part of the lesson should be that the odds will never be in their favor if the opposition groups engage in a direct confrontation with the central government. Their radical illusion of reshaping Hong Kong is like tilting at windmills. It will never come to pass.

The Occupy Central movement is not solely watched or felt by Hong Kong residents. This whole event is also open to the Chinese mainland public. The extreme opposition in Hong Kong wished that at least a portion of mainlanders would be agitated enough to support their cause, which would then deal a blow to the central government. However, their trump card proved to be wishful thinking. This incident on the streets of Hong Kong has barely made any impact on the entire country.

Public discourse in the mainland remains calm in face of the hustle and bustle on Hong Kong's streets. Only a handful of mainlanders pandered to what the opposition groups called for, but their voices were soon smothered by mainstream opinion.

Since a white paper on the practice of the "one country, two systems" policy in Hong Kong was released in June, the central government has specified all the major principles of the basic system to the Hong Kong public, an effort which has rejected and denounced all heterodox interpretations.

The central government has exercised restraint on this matter without exerting its strength directly. It expressed its objections to the movement and then preserved a dignified and silent bearing. What the opposition parties asked for has been scorned.

Hong Kong is still disturbed by conflicting concepts about the orientation of its society, but the ruling principles of "one country, two systems" have been unequivocally expounded to the public, and shall not be subverted. 

The Occupy Central campaign has been reduced to nothing more than chaos on the streets, and the price has to be paid by many innocent Hongkongers. But we should have confidence in the wisdom of the Hong Kong authorities, which will help their society regain rationality and call an end to extreme activities.

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## terranMarine

It appears HK police has arrested lots of protesters during the cleanup, the number of protesters are spiraling downwards lately.
 what did they achieve all this time? nothing much, the prominent students now can never go to Mainland after Beijing revoked their return permit card

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## terranMarine

You are right @TaiShang Beijing didn't have to move a finger. The strategy they had applied worked out perfectly, no crackdown from PLA troops, let HK police absorb the blows and let them use force to subdue the protestors. No impact was felt in Mainland, all it did was disruption of daily life in HK. Is that all what English / American influence can do? Rather disappointing especially when they started to bark at the British consulate

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> You are right @TaiShang Beijing didn't have to move a finger. The strategy they had applied worked out perfectly, no crackdown from PLA troops, let HK police absorb the blows and let them use force to subdue the protestors. No impact was felt in Mainland, all it did was disruption of daily life in HK. Is that all what English / American influence can do? Rather disappointing especially when they started to bark at the British consulate



Indeed. I guess with this absolute embarrassment and sticky bad publicity, the glitter of a student movement bringing about all the white man's fantasy in China has been shattered for good. 

Russia passed the stress test about two years ago.

China has just passed the stress test . 

Now Beijing must silently clean the treasonous trash (white and non-white) in HK and definitely kill off all their dreams of messing with China in China's own land.

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## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Indeed. I guess with this absolute embarrassment and sticky bad publicity, the glitter of a student movement bringing about all the white man's fantasy in China has been shattered for good.
> 
> Russia passed the stress test about two years ago.
> 
> China has just passed the stress test .
> 
> Now Beijing must silently clean the treasonous trash (white and non-white) in HK and definitely kill off all their dreams of messing with China in China's own land.


What i find hilarious was those 3 student leaders prevented from boarding the plane to Beijing, then it became clear their return permit card has been declared invalid. Those trouble makers shall never be able to go to Mainland, only limited to HK/Macau. I'm sure more students will find themselves in this situation. No freedom of movement

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## AgentOrange

terranMarine said:


> You are right @TaiShang Beijing didn't have to move a finger. The strategy they had applied worked out perfectly, no crackdown from PLA troops, let HK police absorb the blows and let them use force to subdue the protestors. No impact was felt in Mainland, all it did was disruption of daily life in HK. Is that all what English / American influence can do? Rather disappointing especially when they started to bark at the British consulate



And China did it all without having to point guns at people unlike American police. Hundreds of thousands of protesters at its height, with less than 100 total arrests. Meanwhile in "free" Ferguson, Missouri of the USA the entire city is on fire but US lawmakers would rather pass laws about monitoring Hong Kong.....

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The British consulate wants them to GTFO of here.
> 
> This is the typical example of dogs getting abandoned by its master.



It's so true. 

We should write down the names of the biggest protestor troublemakers and send them to Britain. See if they will take our trash.



TaiShang said:


> Now Beijing must silently clean the treasonous trash (white and non-white) in HK and definitely kill off all their dreams of messing with China in China's own land.



Exactly, flush them out.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Keel said:


>



Damn, it's like a war zone in Ferguson.

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## terranMarine

AgentOrange said:


> And China did it all without having to point guns at people unlike American police. Hundreds of thousands of protesters at its height, with less than 100 total arrests. Meanwhile in "free" Ferguson, Missouri of the USA the entire city is on fire but US lawmakers would rather pass laws regarding to monitoring Hong Kong.....


Yeah it's getting rough over there too, setting building ablaze, burning cars and causing destruction. Americans get all the fun playing with fire

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## Raphael

Hong Kong has a global reputation for clean and orderly streets. But lately, there's been a serious trash buildup, especially around the Central business district. It's time for the Hong Kong authorities to uphold both the will of the people and the courts, take out the trash, and vaporize them in an incinerator .

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## BoQ77

use violence against the people, then get hit back by violence.
let refer to Xinjiang case.


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## cirr

Is this “protest” already drawing to an end？

I thought it was going to last for years uninterrupted。

And I was hoping the suckers would make an unremitting effort to turn the streets into their permanent homes。

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## Snomannen

BoQ77 said:


> use violence against the people, then get hit back by violence.
> let refer to Xinjiang case.



Why don't you look around the world and find me a country that don't use "violence" appropriately to deal with riots? 

You goddamn yellow rebels are not even welcome outside the "occupied areas". Last time you losers came out from your nest and tried to publicize your native, stupid, ridiculous statement to gain support from other people around other main HK regions (since more than 70% of HK people don't support their action) , you people got mocked, criticized, cursed and shouted by the locals. You people are obviously NOT WELCOME and you are the goddamn MINORITY. 

I will be happy to see our professional policemen wipe you idiots off from our street.

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## BoQ77

KirovAirship said:


> Why don't you look around the world and find me a country that don't use "violence" appropriately to deal with riots?
> 
> You goddamn yellow rebels are not even welcome outside the "occupied areas". Last time you losers came out from your nest and tried to publicize your native, stupid, ridiculous statement to gain support from other people around other main HK regions (since more than 70% of HK people don't support their action) , you people got mocked, criticized, cursed and shouted by the locals. You people are obviously NOT WELCOME and you are the goddamn MINORITY.
> 
> I will be happy to see our professional policemen wipe you idiots off from our street.



even 30% of HKers could have their voice heard.


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## Snomannen

Just to remind some people here (especially for Mainlands). There are only few HK people who are the Yellow Rebels, they are "famous" just because they have been being loud and keep making noises/news. Most of the HK people are the "Silence Majority".

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## Snomannen

BoQ77 said:


> even 30% of HKers could have their voice heard.



Not if those idiots keep sleeping, stealing electricity and making out (they actually did it) on the streets.

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## TaiShang

"Leung Kwok-Hung should be investigated for his foreign links. How many trips has he made overseas and at whose expense? Any money received from overseas, scholarships (bribes), foreign bank accounts, particularly in Swiss banks?"

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## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> use violence against the people, then get hit back by violence.
> let refer to Xinjiang case.


We are Referring to USA CASE.

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## bobsm

BoQ77 said:


> even 30% of HKers could have their voice heard.



Well, they had their voices heard. Now, it is time for the police to fulfill the wishes of the other 70%: Clear the roads and throw the remaining violent protesters in jail.

Most Hong Kong People Want Pro-Democracy Protests to End Now - Businessweek

Most Hong Kong People Want Pro-Democracy Protests to End Now
By Vinicy Chan November 19, 2014

Most Hong Kong people have grown weary of pro-democracy protests that have sparked clashes with police and disrupted the city for almost two months, and want the government to take action to end them, a poll showed.

About 68 percent of 513 respondents said the government should clear the protesters immediately, according to a survey conducted by the University of Hong Kong Nov. 17-18.

Public support for the demonstrations, which at their peak saw tens of thousands of people in the streets, is waning after crowds dwindled, attempts to negotiate with the government failed and the movement’s leaders failed to agree on strategy. The protests, the most disruptive since China resumed sovereignty over Hong Kong in 1997, were sparked by Beijing’s decision to screen candidates through a committee for the city’s leadership election in 2017.

Hong Kong police will help clear protest sites in the Mong Kok district as soon as preparations are complete, Police Chief Superintendent Hui Chun-tak said at a press briefing yesterday.

Police will take “resolute action” against anyone interfering with bailiffs, and will not tolerate any violence, Hui said. Mong Kok was the scene of some of the fiercest clashes during the protests for free elections.
Splintering Movement

A small group of protesters smashed through a glass door of the Legislative Council building in the Admiralty district early early yesterday, using metal barricades and concrete blocks. Police used pepper spray to repel other people who charged at them. Protest leaders and pro-democracy lawmakers condemned the break-in.

The clash is another sign the movement is splintering, with pro-democracy lawmakers and student leaders unable to restrain the demonstrators.

“The use of violence is definitely against the umbrella movement’s emphasis as that of using peaceful, non-violent means to fight for full democracy,” Alan Leong, leader of the pro-democracy Civic Party, said yesterday in a briefing with other legislators. “It seriously undermines” the movement.

“Umbrella movement” refers to protesters’ use of umbrellas initially as shields against pepper spray. The demonstrations, in their eighth week, are the biggest upheaval since China resumed its sovereignty over Hong Kong in 1997.

Tam Yiu Chung, Chairman of the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong, a pro-establishment party, said in a separate briefing the break-in shows the movement is “totally bankrupt” and the “warped thinking” they don’t have to obey the law.

Hong Kong has assured investors the city can withstand the protests, said K.C. Chan, secretary for financial services.

“International investors have voiced some concerns,” Chan said on Bloomberg TV. “We have been explaining to international investors that what’s going on here is definitely an incident that the Hong Kong government has every means to deal with.”

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## BoQ77

if peaceful protest is not working, then something different would start.


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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> if peaceful protest is not working, then something different would start.



You are apparently disappointed now that your wildest wet Viet dreams have come to nothing. 

Your feelings are our last concern.

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## Chinese-Dragon

TaiShang said:


> You are apparently disappointed now that your wildest wet Viet dreams have come to nothing.
> 
> Your feelings are our last concern.



They are pissed because we throw those Vietnamese illegal immigrants out of Hong Kong.

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## JSCh

*Hong Kong student leaders arrested as police clear protest site*
By Farah Master and James Pomfret

HONG KONG Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:26am EST 
 
(Reuters) - Hong Kong police cleared activists from one of the largest protest sites in the city on Wednesday and *arrested Joshua Wong and Lester Shum, two of the student leaders* at the heart of the pro-democracy movement that has shaken the Asian financial hub.

Scuffles broke out when riot police moved against hundreds of protesters on Nathan Road, in the gritty Mong Kok district, following clashes overnight, Reuters witnesses said.

"You can't defeat the protesters' hearts!" screamed Liu Yuk-lin, a 52-year-old protester in a hard hat holding a yellow umbrella, the symbol of the movement, as she stood before lines of police in helmets and goggles.

But there was no serious violence, and *after about three hours the operation was complete and traffic was flowing through as area where demonstrators had camped out since late September* to call for greater democracy in the former British colony.

Hong Kong student leaders arrested as police clear protest site| Reuters

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## Keel

The reporting by Business Week is a lot more thorough and balanced unlike Reuters' which is a shoddy piece of work omitting some of the key elements. It should not just quote the opinion of a protester who said:

_"You can't defeat the protesters' hearts!" screamed Liu Yuk-lin, a 52-year-old protester in a hard hat holding a yellow umbrella, the symbol of the movement, as she stood before lines of police in helmets and goggles.
_
They still do not feel any guilt about their horrendous behaviour for holding the majority people hostages for 2 damn months  Reuters has failed to mention about an overwhelming no of people want these criminals to vacate the streets AT ONCE ! This is what "democracy" is all about, isnt it?

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## Keel

“peaceful” protest by the bunch of "yellow ribbon" crooks:


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## Superboy

Funded by CiA for global regime change. Unfortunately for them, unlike Ukraine and Syria, China is a superpower

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## Keel




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## TaiShang

Why not beat them up a little bit? It will be just fun to sit back and watch them getting mildly beaten although I feel for the police who would have to get tired.


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## BoQ77

someone think this protest only last for few days before weekend end.
But it lasts for month.


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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> someone think this protest only last for few days before weekend end.
> But it lasts for month.



That's because of your support, old sport. LOL.


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## terranMarine

Too bad the 7 cops can't resume work at the moment

BBC News - Hong Kong protests: Policemen arrested over beating


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## TaiShang

Is this badly beating? Come on, that's just a little warm up. What would have they done had they faced more resolute and professional US police?


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## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Is this badly beating? Come on, that's just a little warm up. What would have they done had they faced more resolute and professional US police?


Latest news in US Tamir Rice shooting, did you see the video released on youtube?

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Latest news in US Tamir Rice shooting, did you see the video released on youtube?



No, have not seen. Just read on Cleveland Police Releases Video of 12-Year-Old Boy Shot by White Officer / Sputnik International

That's scary, indeed.

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## BoQ77

*Hong Kong protesters clash with police after new clampdown*
By Reuters

Published: 23:25 GMT, 28 November 2014 | Updated: 23:25 GMT, 28 November 2014


By James Pomfret

HONG KONG, Nov 29 (Reuters) - Thousands of pro-democracy activists clashed with police in running scuffles in Hong Kong's gritty Mong Kok district early on Saturday in a bid to reclaim part of one of the city's largest and most volatile protest sites.

After a tense standoff lasting hours, chaos erupted as hundreds of riot police baton-charged demonstrators with shields, pepper spraying and wrestling a string of them to the ground.

The clampdown only stoked more protests, and a three-hour march by hundreds of people calling for "real full democracy" helped put the city's 28,000-strong police force further on edge.

Bands of roving protesters stalked the streets deep into the night amid a wail of sirens, sometimes pelting police with eggs, bottled water and wooden boards. Police, some bleeding, lashed out liberally with their batons to keep crowds back.

The fresh tensions came as authorities have struggled for months to find a resolution to the most serious governance crisis in the former British colony since it returned to Chinese rule in 1997.

Unrest has simmered for three straight nights since a swift and surprisingly smooth police clearance of Mong Kok's main protest encampment on Wednesday that resulted in over a hundred arrests including student leaders Joshua Wong and Lester Shum.

Amnesty International on Friday warned the police against the use of excessive force after Wong and Shum both said they were beaten during their arrests. Several reporters were also roughed up, prompting the Hong Kong Journalists Association to lodge a formal complaint and plan a Saturday protest.

"Is there a need to really use so much force to beat us," said Wong Ching-san, a young protester wearing a black jacket and flip flops. "We're not trying to cause violence but when they attack us we fight back."

Medical volunteers manning first aid stations treated scores of injured including those with head injuries, grazes and others who'd been pepper sprayed in the eyes.

A pro-democracy lawmaker who observed the clashes, Leung Yiu-chung, criticised the lack of restraint by some police.

"Some of them were deliberately inciting people," he said.

It has been two months since police first fired tear gas to disperse demonstrators from the main protest site in the Admiralty district next to government offices in the heart of the Asian financial centre.

The protests, which have lasted well beyond many people's expectations, drew more than 100,000 on to the streets of Hong Kong at the peak. While numbers have dwindled, they have swelled to several thousand at weekends and at key moments given a deep-rooted frustration at China and Hong Kong's refusal to in any way offer to meet their democratic demands.

A police spokesman said on Friday officers were worried about reports of excessive force and would investigate.

Lined with jewellery and electronics shops, and grimy tenement blocks, bustling Mong Kok has been a key battleground for hardcore protesters and mobs intent on disbanding them.

The protesters, mostly students, are demanding full democracy. They have called on the city's embattled leader, Leung Chun-ying, to step down after Beijing in August ruled out free elections for Hong Kong's next leader in 2017, despite constitutional promises made by China to allow eventual universal suffrage in the city of 7.3 million.

China rules Hong Kong under a "one country, two systems" formula that accords the former British colony a degree of autonomy and freedoms not enjoyed in mainland China, with universal suffrage set as an eventual goal. (Editing by Susan Fenton and Tom Brown)


Read more: Hong Kong protesters clash with police after new clampdown | Daily Mail Online


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## Nan Yang

*10 Lessons From the Hong Kong Protests*
*1) Beijing will not budge under pressure.*
*2) Hong Kong citizens reject illegal actions.*
*3) Pursuit of democracy by undemocratic means won't work.*
*4) Street politics lead to anarchism.*
*5) Street politics divide society.*
*6) Democracy can only be built incrementally.*
*7) Political turbulence hurts the economy.*
*8) Poverty and inequality must be tackled.*
*9) Fat cats are getting too fat*
*10) Cooperation is the only way forward.*

*Source:*
10 Lessons From the Hong Kong Protests | Han Zhu

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## pr1v4t33r

Wong Chi-ping, who has been hunted across Asia for years, finally arrested in huge Jakarta bust that also netted almost a tonne of meth.
_scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1676787/hong-kong-drug-kingpin-wong-chi-ping-caught-indonesia-raid_












An alleged Hong Kong drugs kingpin wanted in seven jurisdictions has been arrested in Indonesia following the biggest drugs bust in the country's history. Wong Chi-ping had been hunted by police forces across the region for years prior to his seizure on Monday, alongside 840kg of high-grade methamphetamine, according to Indonesian drug officials.

"His syndicate has been a target of the National Narcotics Agency [BNN] for three years and the subject of an intensive investigation in cooperation with authorities in Macau, Hong Kong and Malaysia for the past year," said BNN deputy for Narcotics Eradication Affairs, Dedi Fauzi. Wong, 40, was nabbed after police intercepted the massive meth consignment while it was being transferred between vehicles in the car park of a west Jakarta shopping mall.






Some 42 sacks, each containing 20kg of the drug known locally as "shabu shabu", and a number of vehicles were seized during raid in broad daylight by BNN agents armed with assault rifles. Three Hong Kong-based Chinese suspects, one Malaysian and four Indonesians were also arrested. All nine men could face the death penalty if convicted of trafficking.

.


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## AgentOrange

Indonesian bros, be a dear and kill him for us. 

Thanks, 
China

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## initial_d

AgentOrange said:


> Indonesian bros, be a dear and ki ll him for us.
> 
> Thanks,
> China


Don't worry, he'll be sentence by death penalty for sure, or being zero one ( execute In the


AgentOrange said:


> Indonesian bros, be a dear and kill him for us.
> 
> Thanks,
> China


Street



initial_d said:


> Don't worry, he'll be sentence by death penalty for sure, or being zero one ( execute In the street by pretendinghe's trying to escaped)
> 
> Street


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## Martian2

A few years ago, in the forums, I learned that Hong Kong was not a democracy during British rule. However, I am not absolutely certain that Hong Kong has never experienced a temporary period of democracy during the 156 years of British rule. This is where you guys come in. You are experts in Chinese and Hong Kong history.

Thus, my assertion in the ABC News comment section is that Hong Kong was never a democracy. I believe this to be true. However, I would like to use your collective expertise to correct me if I am wrong.

China Seizes Toilet Paper Bearing Image of Hong Kong Leader - ABC News

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## Yizhi

to my knowledge, crucial government positions were almost all British appointed, especially before 80s. it improved a little after the 'hand over' talk mainly to show the good side of British rule, but not much.
http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ics/21c/issue/articles/137_1301058.pdf
don't know if you can read Chinese source. @Chinese-Dragon could have better answers.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Hong Kong was never a democracy. And we have never been considered or recognized as an independent state or territory (which is correct).

Our top leaders have always been appointed.

Despite the "high and mighty" proclamations from the British, they never considered giving us democracy until a few years before the handover, just as a parting shot at China!

Now, the official narrative from both China and Britain is that "Hong Kong was always a part of China", and the British just "administered" the island on a temporary basis.

That's why the PRC government considers all ethnic Chinese born in Hong Kong to be Chinese nationals, before or after the handover. Because Hong Kong was always officially a part of China, even during the British "temporary adminstration".

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## Martian2

Thanks guys for helping me out. I wasn't quite sure due to the long 156-year British rule.

Now, I am more confident in making claims about Hong Kong history.

Also, I can't read Mandarin anymore. I can recognize perhaps 10 to 20 characters. The rest look familiar, but I can't recall their meaning.

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## Lux de Veritas

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Hong Kong was never a democracy. And we have never been considered or recognized as an independent state or territory (which is correct).
> 
> Our top leaders have always been appointed.
> 
> Despite the "high and mighty" proclamations from the British, they never considered giving us democracy until a few years before the handover, just as a parting shot at China!
> 
> Now, the official narrative from both China and Britain is that "Hong Kong was always a part of China", and the British just "administered" the island on a temporary basis.
> 
> That's why the PRC government considers all ethnic Chinese born in Hong Kong to be Chinese nationals, before or after the handover. Because Hong Kong was always officially a part of China, even during the British "temporary adminstration".





Martian2 said:


> Thanks guys for helping me out. I wasn't quite sure due to the long 156-year British rule.
> 
> Now, I am more confident in making claims about Hong Kong history.
> 
> Also, I can't read Mandarin anymore. I can recognize perhaps 10 to 20 characters. The rest look familiar, but I can't recall their meaning.



You cannot trust Dragon to tell the truth or he simply has no clue. Hong Kong Island and small part of Kowloon was ceded to UK. Only New Territory was leased.

Treaty of Nanking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Qing government agreed to make Hong Kong Island a crown colony, ceding it to the British Queen "in perpetuity" (常遠, Cháng yuǎn, in the Chinese version of the treaty), to provide British traders with a harbour where they could unload their goods (Article III). Pottinger was later appointed the first governor of Hong Kong.


Convention of Peking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Article 6 of the Convention between China and the United Kingdom stipulated that China was to cede the part of Kowloon Peninsula south of present day Boundary Street, Kowloon, and Hong Kong (including Stonecutters Island) in perpetuity to Britain.
*
New Territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*
The New Territories were leased from Qing China to the United Kingdom in 1898 for 99 years in the Second Convention of Peking (The Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory).


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## Chinese-Dragon

Lux de Veritas said:


> You cannot trust Dragon to tell the truth or he simply has no clue. Hong Kong Island and small part of Kowloon was ceded to UK. Only New Territory was leased.
> 
> Treaty of Nanking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Qing government agreed to make Hong Kong Island a crown colony, ceding it to the British Queen "in perpetuity" (常遠, Cháng yuǎn, in the Chinese version of the treaty), to provide British traders with a harbour where they could unload their goods (Article III). Pottinger was later appointed the first governor of Hong Kong.
> 
> 
> Convention of Peking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Article 6 of the Convention between China and the United Kingdom stipulated that China was to cede the part of Kowloon Peninsula south of present day Boundary Street, Kowloon, and Hong Kong (including Stonecutters Island) in perpetuity to Britain.
> *
> New Territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> *
> The New Territories were leased from Qing China to the United Kingdom in 1898 for 99 years in the Second Convention of Peking (The Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory).



Because a Malay from Singapore knows better? 

Sure, HK island was technically ceded in "perpetuity" at the time, however that is clearly no longer the case. As agreed on by both China and Britain.

And the view of the PRC and HK government is that HK was always a part of China, which is why we are officially considered Chinese nationals even if born in HK before the handover. Chinese nationals, not British nationals (obviously).

No country in the world disputes this.

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## Nan Yang

Lux de Veritas said:


> You cannot trust Dragon to tell the truth or he simply has no clue. Hong Kong Island and small part of Kowloon was ceded to UK. Only New Territory was leased.
> 
> Treaty of Nanking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Qing government agreed to make Hong Kong Island a crown colony, ceding it to the British Queen "in perpetuity" (常遠, Cháng yuǎn, in the Chinese version of the treaty), to provide British traders with a harbour where they could unload their goods (Article III). Pottinger was later appointed the first governor of Hong Kong.
> 
> 
> Convention of Peking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Article 6 of the Convention between China and the United Kingdom stipulated that China was to cede the part of Kowloon Peninsula south of present day Boundary Street, Kowloon, and Hong Kong (including Stonecutters Island) in perpetuity to Britain.
> *
> New Territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> *
> The New Territories were leased from Qing China to the United Kingdom in 1898 for 99 years in the Second Convention of Peking (The Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory).



Yes, after winning the Falkland Islands from the Argentina, Maggi Thatcher, the iron lady lost Hong Kong to China without a fight.

Wining without fighting is the acme of warfare. - sun tzu

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## Aepsilons

Nan Yang said:


> Yes, after winning the Falkland Islands from the Argentina, Maggi Thatcher, the iron lady lost Hong Kong to China without a fight.
> 
> Wining without fighting is the acme of warfare. - sun tzu



Its not just that --- its the fact that they _promised _to return Hong Kong to the Mainland after specified amount of time. By reneging on that promise, they would , truly, lose considerable international respect and integrity. British promise would be utterly meaningless. Secondarily, the British also observed the same situation even for the Portuguese , who had ruled over Macao for nearly half a millenia. Yet Lisbon parted with Macao due to the promise it made in returning it to the Mainland after aforementioned time.

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## Nan Yang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Its not just that --- its the fact that they _promised _to return Hong Kong to the Mainland after specified amount of time. By reneging on that promise, they would , truly, lose considerable international respect and integrity. British promise would be utterly meaningless. Secondarily, the British also observed the same situation even for the Portuguese , who had ruled over Macao for nearly half a millenia. Yet Lisbon parted with Macao due to the promise it made in returning it to the Mainland after aforementioned time.


Not true. Hong kong Island and Kowloon was ceded to Britain. The new territory was later leased for 99years. Maggie Thatcher actually wanted to keep Hong Kong lsland and Kowloon and then extent new territory lease. 

Macao was entirely different. Macao was always Chinese territory but administrated by Portuguese.

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## Aepsilons

Thatcher was a prime minister, not the house of parliament. It may have been her personal opinion to have kept Hong Kong, nevertheless, a promised treaty was a promised treaty. And as I said earlier in my post, by reneging on said agreement would have resulted in British oaths to all overseas partners as worthless. 

Think strategically.



Nan Yang said:


> Macao was entirely different. Macao was always Chinese territory but administrated by Portuguese.



That's not true. Macau, early on, was administered by Lisbon , but in 1887 it was incorporated into the Portuguese Empire as an overseas territory. Please refer to the Sino-Portuguese Treaty of Peiking, which resulted in China ceding Macau to Portugal for perpetuity:

Sino-Portuguese Treaty of Peking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nevertheless, it was Lisbon that returned Macau to China in 1999.


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## Lux de Veritas

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Thatcher was a prime minister, not the house of parliament. It may have been her personal opinion to have kept Hong Kong, nevertheless, a promised treaty was a promised treaty. And as I said earlier in my post, by reneging on said agreement would have resulted in British oaths to all overseas partners as worthless.
> 
> Think strategically.


I am not too sure when did UK promised to returned to HK earlier than 1980s.


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## Aepsilons

Lux de Veritas said:


> I am not too sure when did UK promised to returned to HK earlier than 1980s.



The moment they entered the 'lease'. By that definition, a lease is a territory on loan, for said amount of time. The very basis of lease is constitutive of 'borrowing'. Hence, it is to be returned after restitution of said lease term. 

Do some reading in property law.

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## Lux de Veritas

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The moment they entered the 'lease'. By that definition, a lease is a territory on loan, for said amount of time. The very basis of lease is constitutive of 'borrowing'. Hence, it is to be returned after restitution of said lease term.
> 
> Do some reading in property law.


It was ceded. Just NT was leased for 99 years.

Basically the return of HK require the abolishment of part of Treaty of Nanjing


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## Aepsilons

Lux de Veritas said:


> It was ceded. Just NT was leased for 99 years.
> 
> Basically the return of HK require the abolishment of part of Treaty of Nanjing



In 1898, after conclusion of the Second Convention of Peiking, the treaty included a 99 year lease of the new territories (Kowloon Peninsula and Hong Kong Island). Hence, this is the reason why Hong was handed over in 1997 as per the treaty. The British signed it, hence they followed suit. Even with the Conservative Party in power in UK at the time during the 1980s, they, too, were reticent in the fact that HK was to be handed over.


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## Nan Yang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Thatcher was a prime minister, not the house of parliament. It may have been her personal opinion to have kept Hong Kong, nevertheless, a promised treaty was a promised treaty. And as I said earlier in my post, by reneging on said agreement would have resulted in British oaths to all overseas partners as worthless.
> 
> Think strategically.



As far as I know. She went against the advise of Chris Patten.

Quote
"China, in other words, was determined to take back the whole of Hong Kong; and *it felt no need of Britain's blessing to do so."*

How Mrs Thatcher Lost Hong Kong: Ten years ago, fired up by her triumph in the Falklands war, Margaret Thatcher flew to Peking for a last-ditch attempt to keep Hong Kong under British rule - only to meet her match in Deng Xiaoping. Two years later she signed the agreement handing the territory to China - Arts and Entertainment - The Independent



Nihonjin1051 said:


> That's not true. Macau, early on, was administered by Lisbon , but in 1887 it was incorporated into the Portuguese Empire as an overseas territory. Please refer to the Sino-Portuguese Treaty of Peiking, which resulted in China ceding Macau to Portugal for perpetuity:
> 
> Sino-Portuguese Treaty of Peking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Nevertheless, it was Lisbon that returned Macau to China in 1999.




But your in your link, the treaty was null as it was not ratified within the 2 years. I am right.

*Interpretations*
According to the Portuguese interpretation, sovereignty over Macau was surrendered to Portugal. *In the Chinese interpretation, only administrative rights were transferred.*

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## Keel

Apart from all the top officials who were appointed by the Brits, the people of HK also have to foot ALL the bills of British garrisons stationed in HK
I dont know how transparent were these expenditures to the general public then

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## BoQ77

16 February 2015 Last updated at 05:01

*In pictures: Hong Kong 'parallel trade' protests*
Angry protests have taken place in a shopping centre in Hong Kong against mainlanders who visit the territory to shop.

Hong Kong residents have long complained about mainlanders buying up goods at lower tax rates and then selling them on at home at a profit, so-called parallel trading.

They say this leaves Hong Kongers with a shortage of basic supplies and pushes up the cost of goods, while also accusing the mainlanders of bad behaviour.




Tens of millions of mainlanders visit Hong Kong every year, many for just a day. The protesters compare them to locusts, saying they are taking advantage of Hong Kong's lack of a goods and services tax.




The protesters gathered on Sunday at the New Town Plaza shopping centre in Sha Tin, surrounding mainland shoppers and heckling them. It was the second such protest in a week.




This time of year is a particularly busy shopping period as people stock up on food and gifts ahead of Lunar New Year celebrations. This man was being detained by protesters who accused him of beating someone up.




least one protester waved a Hong Kong colonial-era flag, a symbol often used by the pro-independence movement in the former British colony.




Hong Kong's media said a number of people were arrested as protesters clashed with police, who deployed pepper spray to hold them back.




This mainland woman was watching the unrest from behind a shop shutter. One shopper visiting from Hangzhou told the South China Morning Post: "This is crazy, I don't know why they are so violent. I have only come to buy gifts for the Lunar New Year, I guess I won't spend so much here in the future."




The issue of parallel trading has been rumbling for several years and is seen as a factor in rising anti-mainland sentiment in Hong Kong.




The authorities do conduct occasional sweeps and arrest parallel traders under immigration offences, but the protesters want a bigger crackdown.

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## Misay

The CIA in action，They are just pawns on the table ( 1/10 Hong Kong people )

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## BoQ77

Why mainlanders must rush to Hongkong for shopping? they buy even regular milk and dairy products. So there's limit of 2-tin per mainlander.
Is it not true that China make everything on earth in mainland?

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## Huaren

Misay said:


> The CIA in action，They are just pawns on the table ( 1/10 Hong Kong people )


Actually in this case 1/10 are quite many, if nothing is done sooner than later it would be the silent majority in hong kong and visitors/immigrants from other part of china whos gonna pay for the consequences.

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## Nan Yang

Eventually, we will all be working for China. These young punks will eventually grow up and learn that. Waving the colonial flag will definitely not help your resume. He he he.

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## UnChosen

BoQ77 said:


> Why mainlanders must rush to Hongkong for shopping? they buy even regular milk and dairy products. So there's limit of 2-tin per mainlander.
> Is is not true that China make everything on earth in mainland?



They do it because of tax rate arbitrage.

Its the same here in Canada when our dollar was high compared with the USD, everyone living close to the border rush across to grab all the cheap milk, eggs, and gas from the states which are taxed less and are also subsidized by the American government, resulting in hours long wait time at the border and massive crowding in supermarkets in border towns. The Americans responded by hiring more people, order extra inventory and opening more markets.

The states have a whole bunch of mail order receiving businesses at the border specifically to cater to Canadians buying stuff that are expensive or unavailable in their home country, as well as airport parking to make money off the difference in airline ticket pricing.

The only reason why this is a problem for HK is that for some reason the HK people are too dumb to take advantage of business opportunities like the US does. Too many mainland Chinese crowding and clear out supermarket? Just build a new and bigger one right on the border and order 10x the amount just to make money off them!

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## Norwegian

Bizarre Materialistic Situations Immediately Remind Me Of This


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## Nan Yang

UnChosen said:


> They do it because of tax rate arbitrage.
> 
> Its the same here in Canada when our dollar was high compared with the USD, everyone living close to the border rush across to grab all the cheap milk, eggs, and gas from the states which are taxed less and are also subsidized by the American government, resulting in hours long wait time at the border and massive crowding in supermarkets in border towns. The Americans responds by hiring more people, order extra inventory and opening more markets.
> 
> The states have a whole bunch of mail order receiving businesses at the border specifically to cater to Canadians buying stuff that are expensive or unavailable in their home country, as well as airport parking to make money off the difference in airline ticket pricing.
> 
> The only reason why this is a problem for HK is that for some reason the HK people is too dumb to take advantage of business opportunities like the US does. Too many mainland Chinese crowding and clear out supermarket? Just build a new and bigger one right on the border and order 10x the amount just to make money off them!



Same thing between Malaysia and Singapore. In the old days Malaysian will flock to Singapore to buy their duty free goods. Now Singapore dollar is much stronger, they now flock to Johore Bharu to eat, to drink to fill up their petrol tank etc. So much so Singapore Government prevents car with empty petrol tanks to leave Singapore !

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## Misay

Huaren said:


> Actually in this case 1/10 are quite many, if nothing is done sooner than later it would be the silent majority in hong kong and visitors/immigrants from other part of china whos gonna pay for the consequences.


You are wrong, because the people of Hong Kong, the Chinese more support the China government.The people of Hong Kong proved that American democracy is a garbage.The people of Hong Kong is a parasite, more and more Chinese people will know.Foreigners have a dream China division, but existed for thousands of years in China.China's large population, the people of Hong Kong is just a drop of water, can't affect China

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## Huaren

UnChosen said:


> The only reason why this is a problem for HK is that for some reason the HK people are too dumb to take advantage of business opportunities like the US does. Too many mainland Chinese crowding and clear out supermarket? Just build a new and bigger one right on the border and order 10x the amount just to make money off them!



you can bet that many hongkong people are doing everything they can and as fast as possible to profit from new waves of visitors/costumers, the problem is there are not yet enough of them and there is the other groups (angry young folks) who are doing their best to scare of people. When the dusts settled the reputation for buisness finally ruined and people scared off, guess whos gonna cry,

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## Misay

BoQ77 said:


> Why mainlanders must rush to Hongkong for shopping? they buy even regular milk and dairy products. So there's limit of 2-tin per mainlander.
> Is is not true that China make everything on earth in mainland?


Tariffs, there is no tax in Hong Kong, mainland China's poor natural want to save money，In Hong Kong to buy an iphone can save $100,Buy milk powder can save $5，The Chinese government is planning to open a duty-free in mainland China。

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## Place Of Space

Those Hong Kong protesters are really rude here but they always can tolerate badly racism in the West.

I even ever watched an video the white throw banana skin to Asians on the street just because they looks different.

Those protesters can't understand only Asian unify and respect each other, Asian could be strong and get worthy respect.

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## shrimant

so now Hong Kong people are fighting against chinese occupation of Hong Kong.


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## hans

Will you make any money by posting so many posts against China?
Will your country get any benefit??



BoQ77 said:


> 16 February 2015 Last updated at 05:01
> 
> *In pictures: Hong Kong 'parallel trade' protests*
> Angry protests have taken place in a shopping centre in Hong Kong against mainlanders who visit the territory to shop.
> 
> Hong Kong residents have long complained about mainlanders buying up goods at lower tax rates and then selling them on at home at a profit, so-called parallel trading.
> 
> They say this leaves Hong Kongers with a shortage of basic supplies and pushes up the cost of goods, while also accusing the mainlanders of bad behaviour.
> Tens of millions of mainlanders visit Hong Kong every year, many for just a day. The protesters compare them to locusts, saying they are taking advantage of Hong Kong's lack of a goods and services tax.
> The protesters gathered on Sunday at the New Town Plaza shopping centre in Sha Tin, surrounding mainland shoppers and heckling them. It was the second such protest in a week.
> This time of year is a particularly busy shopping period as people stock up on food and gifts ahead of Lunar New Year celebrations. This man was being detained by protesters who accused him of beating someone up.
> least one protester waved a Hong Kong colonial-era flag, a symbol often used by the pro-independence movement in the former British colony.
> Hong Kong's media said a number of people were arrested as protesters clashed with police, who deployed pepper spray to hold them back.
> This mainland woman was watching the unrest from behind a shop shutter. One shopper visiting from Hangzhou told the South China Morning Post: "This is crazy, I don't know why they are so violent. I have only come to buy gifts for the Lunar New Year, I guess I won't spend so much here in the future."
> The issue of parallel trading has been rumbling for several years and is seen as a factor in rising anti-mainland sentiment in Hong Kong.
> The authorities do conduct occasional sweeps and arrest parallel traders under immigration offences, but the protesters want a bigger crackdown.

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## Place Of Space

shrimant said:


> so now Hong Kong people are fighting against chinese occupation of Hong Kong.



Yes, the fotos show it obviously. Some HK people want this kind of social style, some want that social style. It is troublesome, it needs time and patience to solve divergence among people.


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## black-hawk_101

Really Hong Kong is a power house for China. As China had gain many expertise from Hong Kong city. It will be better if Hong Kong will buy some 100 KM in Diameter of Land bordering Hong Kong from China and make their own country under UK slogan or as a UK state.


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## Misay

shrimant said:


> so now Hong Kong people are fighting against chinese occupation of Hong Kong.


Hong Kong is China, you look like a slave for your UK master.Indians need self-esteem

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## Place Of Space

black-hawk_101 said:


> Really Hong Kong is a power house for China. As China had gain many expertise from Hong Kong city. It will be better if Hong Kong will buy some 100 KM in Diameter of Land bordering Hong Kong from China and make their own country under UK slogan or as a UK state.



The idea is not bad. Welcome back Great UK empire colonized the world again, from middle east, India, Burma to Hong Kong.


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## Beidou2020

CPC need to bring HK under full communist control. It should not be a SAR, it should be a province like Guangdong.

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## shrimant

Place Of Space said:


> Yes, the fotos show it obviously. Some HK people want this kind of social style, some want that social style. It is troublesome, it needs time and patience to solve divergence among people.


there must be some reason for it. what china has done that hong kong peoples are so angry at mainlanders???


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## Beidou2020

shrimant said:


> there must be some reason for it. what china has done that hong kong peoples are so angry at mainlanders???



China don't kowtow to the West like these HK traitors want.
That's why they hate China and therefore hate mainlanders.

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## Place Of Space

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC need to bring HK under full communist control. It should not be a SAR, it should be a province like Guangdong.



It needs time, practice and politeness. The world has not yet found the advantage of communism because USSR really made a bad example of communism in the past. It was actually empire communism. I hurt a lot of people around USSR.

In 30 years, comparing China to India, Vietnam to the Phillipine, people around the world will realize advantage of communism.

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## shrimant

Misay said:


> Hong Kong is China, you look like a slave for your UK master.Indians need self-esteem


why are you bashing me? i did not tell Hong kong people to fight for freedom.



Beidou2020 said:


> China don't kowtow to the West like these HK traitors want.
> That's why they hate China and therefore hate mainlanders.


what is status of Hong Kong? is it province or autonomous region?


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## Place Of Space

shrimant said:


> there must be some reason for it. what china has done that hong kong peoples are so angry at mainlanders???



Hong Kong has 8 million population, most people welcome mainlanders or keep rationality.

It's hard for me to explain the reason. For example, I respect Muslims, but I like drink alcohol, it's hard for me to live in an Islamic state. The USA is great nation, but there are still crowds of people don't like America.

I have to say, if those protesters really really can't stand the life, whatever govt show goodness to them, they can choose to leave.

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## Misay

shrimant said:


> why are you bashing me? i did not tell Hong kong people to fight for freedom.
> 
> 
> what is status of Hong Kong? is it province or autonomous region?


So, lead to conflict, the speech said the people of Hong Kong is cantonese, said China is mandarin，


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## black-hawk_101

Place Of Space said:


> The idea is not bad. Welcome back Great UK empire colonized the world again, from middle east, India, Burma to Hong Kong.


Just to Hong Kong with more land. About 1000 sq.KM of it.


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## Place Of Space

black-hawk_101 said:


> Just to Hong Kong with more land. About 1000 sq.KM of it.



. The British also can help Indian like they did in the past. It's a good thing. Why not?

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## black-hawk_101

Place Of Space said:


> . The British also can help Indian like they did in the past. It's a good thing. Why not?


Yes to break up again into its states.


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## Roybot

Place Of Space said:


> . The British also can help Indian like they did in the past. It's a good thing. Why not?



You do realize you are taking to a troll right? Ignore his posts mate.


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## Place Of Space

Although Indian would like to deny, British really helped Indian a lot in colonized era. 

Before British reach India, India was not a unite country, the north east, south east are not Indian states. North east area were Burmese's and Thai's land, south east were Sinhalese, Dravidian or Tamils' country. Without industrialized British's help, Indian themselves could't reach and controlled those area and people.



Roybot said:


> You do realize you are taking to a troll right? Ignore his posts mate.



I don't know, I am new member here.

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## sweetgrape

，Another stupied thread by the hypocritical Vietnamese, hehe!

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## Place Of Space

Roybot said:


> He is, has been banned multiple times and he comes back with a new id. And he is no Indian, he is a Pakistani, a mentally unstable one. Just ignore his rants.



I am sorry I don't try to judge ( comment or point fingers at,,,,more correct expression? ) any poster, I just exchange and learn interesting ideas with others. Anyway, thanks for your warm alert.


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## BoQ77

hans said:


> Will you make any money by posting so many posts against China?
> Will your country get any benefit??



You guys have issue with "against China" ? anything I made to "against China" ? but your Chinese fighting each other.



Misay said:


> Tariffs, there is no tax in Hong Kong, mainland China's poor natural want to save money，In Hong Kong to buy an iphone can save $100,Buy milk powder can save $5，The Chinese government is planning to open a duty-free in mainland China。



milk powder in Hongkong is considered safer?


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## Misay

BoQ77 said:


> milk powder in Hongkong is considered safer


Do you think China doesn't sell foreign milk powder?

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## Edison Chen

I don't want to call them traitors, but indeed many Chinese are 下贱的.

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## Place Of Space

BoQ77 said:


> You guys have issue with "against China" ? anything I made to "against China" ? but your Chinese fighting each other.
> 
> 
> 
> milk powder in Hongkong is considered safer?




Yes, Chinese fight each other. Ideas are open and discussed thoroughly. For example, some Chinese like Japan and Japanese, some don't; Some Chinese like Vietnam and some don't, almost the similar attitude to every nation such as powers like Russia, America. In this case, every possibility exists.

The best mils powder is imported from Newzealand and Switzerland. Those powder is really better in quality, I need to agree.

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## BoQ77

Misay said:


> Do you think China doesn't sell foreign milk powder?



I don't know the situation there. So I ask you that.

Btw, I understand the feeling of local residents, when hundred thousands from mainland rush for buying all of essential elements from the local marts. It causes shortage and price up.
If you were them, they would feel annoyed too.


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## Misay

BoQ77 said:


> I don't know the situation there. So I ask you that


So, I have already answered you

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## BoQ77

Misay said:


> So, I have already answered you



And I thanked you, pal. LOL


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## suresh1773

Misay said:


> Hong Kong is China, you look like a slave for your UK master.Indians need self-esteem


It is the same for Hong Kong. Like India,it was too ruled by UK master.Don't teach Indians about self esteem
What about insurgency in Tibet & Xinjiang.


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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC need to bring HK under full communist control. It should not be a SAR, it should be a province like Guangdong.



Slowly but surely, that's gonna happen. These are their last efforts; time is on China's side. The more status quo remains, the more the extreme minority traitors lose.


*Note to members:* Please ignore the two Indian trolls and mass report them. Also report the hateful Viet here. His obsession with and hatred toward China is exemplary.

@Hu Songshan , @Horus , @WebMaster , sirs, the Vietnamese member is again seeking flamewar by leading to a troll fest. Like in the past, he is again opening up threads that create nothing but mutual enmity and distrust. His mental and moral ability is devoid of engaging in a constructive and respectful discussion. Please give the hateful member his due. Thank you.

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> Slowly but surely, that's gonna happen. These are their last efforts; time is on China's side. The more status quo remains, the more the extreme minority traitors lose.
> 
> 
> *Note to members:* Please ignore the two Indian trolls and mass report them. Also report the hateful Viet here. His obsession with and hatred toward China is exemplary.
> 
> @Hu Songshan , @Horus , @WebMaster , sirs, the Vietnamese member is again seeking flamewar by leading to a troll fest. Please give the hateful member his due. Thank you.



I agree

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## Place Of Space

suresh1773 said:


> It is the same for Hong Kong. Like India,it was too ruled by UK master.Don't teach Indians about self esteem
> What about insurgency in Tibet & Xinjiang.



Hey, man, you really need to learn more about world history. If you have interests, I would like to share some Xinjiang photos taken in 19th century ( camera technique originated since then.) Tibetan lama temple built in Beijing in 17th by govt. Yes, there were insurgency in Tibet and Xinjiang, it has passed more than half a century. Nowadays Tibet is peaceful and develop fast, Xinjiang has potential threats by terrorism, in general it's still peace.

I don't want to referred how British stirred China-India border area in 19th century, because it had happened and we only need to face up to it, solve it. Can you remember how many wars between China and India before British reach South Asia? China once had war with Russia 1685-1688 near lake Baikal and war with Holland 1661-1662 in Taiwan. But China and India maybe don't have one till 1888 China-India ( British empire) war. 

I educate you history freely, will you thank to me?

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## suresh1773

Place Of Space said:


> . Yes, there were insurgency in Tibet and Xinjiang, it has passed more than half a century. Nowadays Tibet is peaceful and develop fast, *Xinjiang has potential threats by terrorism, in general it's still peace.*


When did the insurgency in Tibet & Xinjiang passed away peacefully. Recently there r several topics of Xinjaing. About the Bold part,there is peace after riots



Place Of Space said:


> .
> I don't want to referred how British stirred China-India border area in 19th century, because it had happened and we only need to face up to it, solve it. Can you remember how many wars between China and India before British reach South Asia? China once had war with Russia 1685-1688 near lake Baikal and war with Holland 1661-1662 in Taiwan. But China and India maybe don't have one till 1888 China-India ( British empire) war.


U fought against India,Russia,Holland,Portugal but what about Vietnam,there is another thread



Place Of Space said:


> .


I educate you history freely, will you thank to me?[/QUOTE]
Incomplete Historical facts.The protests in Hongkong & the insurgency in Tibet,Xinjiang cannot be solved by quoting some history on Internet.


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## DT1010

hans said:


> Will you make any money by posting so many posts against China?
> Will your country get any benefit??


same question for chinese member


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## haidian




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## KAL-EL

I have read that the best headphone deals can be found in Hong Kong markets and stores.


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## haidian

suresh1773 said:


> When did the insurgency in Tibet & Xinjiang passed away peacefully. Recently there r several topics of Xinjaing. About the Bold part,there is peace after riots
> 
> 
> U fought against India,Russia,Holland,Portugal but what about Vietnam,there is another thread
> 
> 
> I educate you history freely, will you thank to me?


Incomplete Historical facts.The protests in Hongkong & the insurgency in Tibet,Xinjiang cannot be solved by quoting some history on Internet.[/QUOTE]

China and India,who suffer more from insurgencies?

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## haidian

Hong Kong’s share of Chinese GDP

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## singh sahab

Source?


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## haidian

singh sahab said:


> Source?



Hong Kong’s share of Chinese gdp


----------



## esolve

China's GDP doesn't include Hong Kong's

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## haidian

esolve said:


> China's GDP doesn't include Hong Kong's



Yes. but can be compared.

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## Aepsilons

Hong Kong's GDP is $381Billion (USD), and its economy is growing at 7.1% ! 

The Hong Kong GDP per capita is $50,000 (USD). 

Hong Kong's 3 largest trading partners are: China, Japan, USA.


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## haidian

Still steadily slipping down the ranks among other Chinese cities.

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## Aepsilons

Meh, don't think so.


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## Dr. Strangelove

haidian said:


> Still steadily slipping down the ranks among other Chinese cities.


not in per capita income

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## Aepsilons

haidian said:


> Still steadily slipping down the ranks among other Chinese cities.



Standard of living in HK is equivalent to that of countries which are highly developed; in the same ranking as the United States. Average Hong Konger earns $50,000 (US Dollars) a year. Average Chinese Mainlander earns around $7,000 a year.

Average Hong Konger is highly educated, with access to one of the best universities/ colleges in the world. The HDI in Hong Kong is exceptionally high.


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## haidian

Comparatively speaking, Hongkong grows much slower than other Chinese cities and it's GDP being overtaken one after another year on year. but Hongkong does enjoy a huge head start and per capita wise is still ahead of most Chinese cities except for Macau. the chart is just showing the general trend.

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## Aepsilons

haidian said:


> Comparatively speaking, Hongkong grows much slower than other Chinese cities and it's GDP being overtaken one after another year on year. but Hongkong does enjoy a huge head start and per capita wise is still ahead of most Chinese cities except for Macau. the chart is just showing the general trend.



Hong Kong is already developed, there's the caveat. Right now, its practically maintaining itself, and not doing too bad since its economy is growing at 7.1%.


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## Aepsilons

Hehehe! Love Hong Kong so much!

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## Aepsilons

Want to give thanks to my buddies for meeting up with me there. To my 2nd family, the Tan Family !

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## Gufi

Canon Rebel series?? nice pics... did u visit Mainland China as well?

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## Aepsilons

Gufi said:


> Canon Rebel series?? nice pics... did u visit China as well?



Yes, went to visit my uncle , auntie, and my cousins --- they live in Guangzhou. 

I wish i could have stayed longer, but my Winter Break was limited in time. 



Gufi said:


> Canon Rebel series?? nice pics... did u visit Mainland China as well?



How have you been bro? Missed you around here !

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## seven7seven

Lived there when I was younger. Amazing place and one of the great cities in the World.

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## Gufi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Yes, went to visit my uncle , auntie, and my cousins --- they live in Guangzhou.


wow near new year. Must have been fun and tiring at the same time. And time is always limited when we are having fun


Nihonjin1051 said:


> How have you been bro? Missed you around here !


Great... Just had to get some things in life cleared up. Now am back and I had such a pleasant surprise a promotion and winning the competition... How are things with you? I thought you were busy which is why I ignored not getting my documentary names which I asked for...

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## Aepsilons

Gufi said:


> wow near new year. Must have been fun and tiring at the same time. And time is always limited when we are having fun



Its always surprising to see my uncle , lol. You know he still acts like we are still 'kids' lol. Before i left he tried giving me 'pocket money' hahaha. Definitely miss him already, and wish to see him soon. 

Family. 



Gufi said:


> Great... Just had to get some things in life cleared up. Now am back and I had such a pleasant surprise a promotion and winning the competition... How are things with you? I thought you were busy which is why I ignored not getting my documentary names which I asked for...



Ah, i feel so embarassed for that! i have not forgotten, buddy. I will make a good list for you.



seven7seven said:


> Lived there when I was younger. Amazing place and one of the great cities in the World.



Hong Kong definitely is one of the most beautiful places to visit in Asia. It has a strong international yet Chinese spirit about her. And definitely as modern as Singapore, but less "strict" lol.

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## Gufi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Its always surprising to see my uncle , lol. You know he still acts like we are still 'kids' lol. Before i left he tried giving me 'pocket money' hahaha. Definitely miss him already, and wish to see him soon.


come on pocket money is because he thinks of you as a son... Plus if you were there around the Chinese new year how could you not get pocket money  


Nihonjin1051 said:


> Ah, i feel so embarassed for that! i have not forgotten, buddy. I will make a good list for you.


oh i am joking around please do it when you find the time, no compulsions. I am delving into electronics these days which has resulted in lots of appliances ending up in the trash can...

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## Chinese-Dragon

Welcome to my city. I very much hope that you enjoyed the visit. 

Did you get a chance to check out the Peak?

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## Aepsilons

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Welcome to my city. I very much hope that you enjoyed the visit.
> 
> Did you get a chance to check out the Peak?



Hey buddy ! Yes, i really loved it ! I took Cathay Pacific to HK, and it was so packed during Christmas Week -- literally ! Its so beautiful man, pictures don't do justice for HK's beauty --- haha ! 

I did get to go to the peak, also managed to do some little shopping, too. 



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Welcome to my city. I very much hope that you enjoyed the visit.
> 
> Did you get a chance to check out the Peak?




Some REAL HK style food 














Gufi said:


> come on pocket money is because he thinks of you as a son... Plus if you were there around the Chinese new year how could you not get pocket money



This is what he does a lot nowadays...fishing! lol

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## Yizhi

SZ, HK, GZ. i love them all!


Nihonjin1051 said:


>


what is this place? doesn't look like GZ. SZ? HK?

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## Aepsilons

Yizhi said:


> SZ, HK, GZ. i love them all!
> 
> what is this place? doesn't look like GZ. SZ? HK?



We went fishing in HK.

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## dichoi

I like this pic, bro.

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## Aepsilons

dichoi said:


> I like this pic, bro.






HK is truly an international city. It is the Financial Capital of Asia.


----------



## Cheetah786

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hey buddy ! Yes, i really loved it ! I took Cathay Pacific to HK, and it was so packed during Christmas Week -- literally ! Its so beautiful man, pictures don't do justice for HK's beauty --- haha !
> 
> I did get to go to the peak, also managed to do some little shopping, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some REAL HK style food
> 
> View attachment 196071
> 
> 
> View attachment 196072
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what he does a lot nowadays...fishing! lol
> 
> View attachment 196073



Thanks for sharing beautiful pictures. 

P.S.Could you please name those dishes

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## Aepsilons

Cheetah786 said:


> Thanks for sharing beautiful pictures.
> 
> P.S.Could you please name those dishes



You're welcome!

The first dish , i forget the name , but it was clam-based broth and clams removed from the shells. It was delicious. 

2nd dish , also a clam based dish, lol. It was from the market and they literally cook this for you fresh. 

Everything is fresh from the sea !

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## AndrewJin

Thanks a lot for HK at night. i'd like to post some of my experiences in HK last Sep., great place for food and shopping. Frankly, i felt a little compressed when walking on those small lanes clamped by skyscrapers despite the fact that i've been living in Shanghai for nearly 7 years





Hankow=hankou(the region in Wuhan where i live now). Hank/hankou Road is everywhere in mainland China and ROC.





*Tsui Wah Restaurant，which also has branches in Wuhan and Shanghai.
Very cheap, less than 40 HK dollar, however in mainland China, more like a middle-end fancy one*

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## Aepsilons

Wonderful pictures , buddy ! One of the reasons why I love HK is the abundance in sea food delicacies ! I always end up ordering more than i can eat / swallow, lol. There is a fish market that I do recommend for anyone who loves sea food. Its the Lei Yu Mun Fish Market ; they literally cook you fresh / living seafood , and serve it for you to eat as you watch the sunset or bay activity. It is worth every dollar. 

HK is a foodie's paradise. Eat, eat ! lol.


----------



## AndrewJin

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Wonderful pictures , buddy ! One of the reasons why I love HK is the abundance in sea food delicacies ! I always end up ordering more than i can eat / swallow, lol. There is a fish market that I do recommend for anyone who loves sea food. Its the Lei Yu Mun Fish Market ; they literally cook you fresh / living seafood , and serve it for you to eat as you watch the sunset or bay activity. It is worth every dollar.
> 
> HK is a foodie's paradise. Eat, eat ! lol.


Yes yes. Costal China is about all fresh seafood which as a citizen from the interior has seldom tried.

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## Aepsilons

AndrewJin said:


> Thanks a lot for HK at night. i'd like to post some of my experiences in HK last Sep., great place for food and shopping. Frankly, i felt a little compressed when walking on those small lanes clamped by skyscrapers despite the fact that i've been living in Shanghai for nearly 7 years
> View attachment 196161
> 
> 
> Hankow=hankou(the region in Wuhan where i live now). Hank/hankou Road is everywhere in mainland China and ROC.
> View attachment 196162
> 
> 
> *Tsui Wah Restaurant，which also has branches in Wuhan and Shanghai.
> Very cheap, less than 40 HK dollar, however in mainland China, more like a middle-end fancy one*
> View attachment 196163



What kind of drink is that? Mango with tapioca?


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## AndrewJin

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What kind of drink is that? Mango with tapioca?


Iced milk tea, HK's special
Like this one

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## Aepsilons

AndrewJin said:


> Iced milk tea, HK's special
> Like this one
> View attachment 196191



Ahh!! Yummy !


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## Roybot

HK is amazing, Sydney felt like a quaint little country town after I got back from HK  And the view of the skyline from the Tsim Tsa Tsui promenade is just breathtaking.

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## jhungary

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hehehe! Love Hong Kong so much!
> 
> View attachment 196056
> 
> 
> View attachment 196057
> 
> 
> View attachment 196058
> 
> 
> View attachment 196059
> 
> 
> View attachment 196060
> 
> 
> View attachment 196061



dude, where do photo that Chinese Junk? People said junk is the symbol of Hong Kong (As they were in almost all publication promoting Hong Kong) But the 20 years on and off living in Hong Kong, i never see a Junk in the victoria harbor....

lol

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## Shotgunner51

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hehehe! Love Hong Kong so much!
> 
> View attachment 196056
> 
> 
> View attachment 196057
> 
> 
> View attachment 196058
> 
> 
> View attachment 196059
> 
> 
> View attachment 196060
> 
> 
> View attachment 196061



Lovely pics!

I am going there, again, in 2 weeks.

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## Pangu

Bruce Lee fans should not missed the Bruce Lee exhibit now on at the Hong Kong Heritage Museum.

Hong Kong Heritage Museum - Bruce Lee： Kung Fu ‧ Art ‧ Life

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## Aepsilons

Shotgunner51 said:


> Lovely pics!
> 
> I am going there, again, in 2 weeks.



Ah, so lucky, buddy! Do enjoy then.

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## Jlaw

Misay said:


> Hong Kong people are parasites.and Guangdong is China's shame，I'm not surprised the Japanese like these two places.


I see where you're coming from as most HK people are unpatriotic or remain silent during anti China protests that make them appear unpatriotic. Why is Guangdong China's shame?


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## Aepsilons

xudeen said:


> Bruce Lee fans should not missed the Bruce Lee exhibit now on at the Hong Kong Heritage Museum.
> 
> Hong Kong Heritage Museum - Bruce Lee： Kung Fu ‧ Art ‧ Life




He was a Hong Konger wasn't he?



jhungary said:


> dude, where do photo that Chinese Junk? People said junk is the symbol of Hong Kong (As they were in almost all publication promoting Hong Kong) But the 20 years on and off living in Hong Kong, i never see a Junk in the victoria harbor....
> 
> lol



You couldn't find it? haha, they're still found sparsely tho , sometimes you have to take the shot at the right moment when you're on a boat cruise.


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## Pangu

Nihonjin1051 said:


> He was a Hong Konger wasn't he?



Yep. Born in HK then moved to the States. A pretty intense martial artist from all accounts of him.

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## Aepsilons

xudeen said:


> Yep. Born in HK then moved to the States. A pretty intense martial artist from all accounts of him.



Yea man he was deep. "Empty your mind be formless, be water my friend...."


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## Jlaw

Misay said:


> The culture of guangdong province = Hong Kong culture(Brutal, lowly, remote areas)，Chinese culture is represented by guangdong wrong.The enemy of China through from guangdong to demonize the Chinese. But Guangdong people stick to their own culture.


I am Guangdong ren but still love my place of birth. The emigration of southern Chinese to the western countries starting in the late 20th century to the mid 1980s created this stereotype that the southern Chinese represent Chinese culture. Although I do not know the northern Chinese culture as much.


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## dichoi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> HK is truly an international city. It is the Financial Capital of Asia.



Yes, this is a slogan " Marry X'mas ".

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## Aepsilons

dichoi said:


> Yes, this is a slogan " Marry X'mas ".



Hong Kongers say it as , "singdaanjit tuhng sannihn faailohk"


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## dichoi

cirr said:


> There is no need to kiss someone's buttocks whenever you are given a chance。
> 
> Especially when a Vietnamese showing his smugness。It is absolutely not called for。
> 
> PS The neon signs are fine，since Chinese are much more broad-minded than Vietnamese。







Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hong Kongers say it as , "singdaanjit tuhng sannihn faailohk"



I don't know it, even though I learnt Mandarin a little bit.I have been to Hongkong two time.


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## SipahSalar

Awesome. I want to visit too one day.

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## BoQ77

cirr said:


> There is no need to kiss someone's buttocks whenever you are given a chance。
> 
> Especially when a Vietnamese showing his smugness。It is absolutely not called for。
> 
> PS *The neon signs are fine，since Chinese are much more broad-minded than Vietnamese*。



Your statement insults Vietnamese. @Hu Songshan @Horus

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## Keel

Haha it is rather "unorthodox" to eat an egg tart （top of the above pic) that way when it appeared the egg custard was eaten leaving the crusty part untouched
Usually it is recommended to eat the custard and the crust as one piece
Also try their famous BBQ meat （filling）and “pineapple” （crusty/flaky top）buns at Tsui Wah (listed in HKEx). You wont be disappointed esp when served fresh from the oven











“pineapple” bun

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## BoQ77

Keel said:


> Haha it is rather "unorthodox" to eat an egg tart （top of the above pic) that way
> Usually it is recommended to eat the custard and the crust as one piece
> Also try their famous BBQ meat （filling）and “pineapple” （crusty top） buns at Tsui Wah (listed in HKEx). You wont be disappointed esp when served fresh from the oven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “pineapple” bun



Look delicious. You made me feel ..... hungry


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## Pangu

BoQ77 said:


> Look delicious. You made me feel ..... hungry



I bet those buns would go well with Vietnamese dripping coffee

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## Keel

xudeen said:


> I bet those buns would go well with Vietnamese dripping coffee



Precisely
and I love the filters / distillers and the coffee with condensed milk and ice (stirred not shaken)

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## Pangu

Keel said:


> Precisely
> and I love their distillers and the coffee with condensed milk and ice (stirred not shaken)


 
Yum, look at the thick condense milk in first picture it must be very sweet!

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## geronimo

Thanks for sharing thoses beautiful pictures


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## Aepsilons

xudeen said:


> Yum, look at the thick condense milk in first picture it must be very sweet!




mmmhmm! ever tried dipping toasted bread in sweet condensed milk?

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## jhungary

Nihonjin1051 said:


> He was a Hong Konger wasn't he?
> 
> 
> 
> You couldn't find it? haha, they're still found sparsely tho , sometimes you have to take the shot at the right moment when you're on a boat cruise.



dude, how many boat cruise you took?

Ask some of my friend in hong kong, they said I need to board a boat in aberdeen instead of central or tsim sha tsui to see a junk, is thqt what you did?

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## Armstrong

jhungary said:


> dude, how many boat cruise you took?
> 
> Ask some of my friend in hong kong, they said I need to board a boat in aberdeen instead of central or tsim sha tsui to see a junk, is thqt what you did?



Are you cross with me ?  

Why the silent treatment ?


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## Jlaw

Keel said:


> Haha it is rather "unorthodox" to eat an egg tart （top of the above pic) that way when it appeared the egg custard was eaten leaving the crusty part untouched
> Usually it is recommended to eat the custard and the crust as one piece
> Also try their famous BBQ meat （filling）and “pineapple” （crusty/flaky top）buns at Tsui Wah (listed in HKEx). You wont be disappointed esp when served fresh from the oven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “pineapple” bun


the good ol HK 茶餐廳餐. Very well priced and taste pretty good.

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## jhungary

Armstrong said:


> Are you cross with me ?
> 
> Why the silent treatment ?



......lol...no. 

just because you dont tag me no more....

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## Armstrong

jhungary said:


> ......lol...no.
> 
> just because you dont tag me no more....



I tagged you like 5 times in the past week !


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## Pangu

Nihonjin1051 said:


> mmmhmm! ever tried dipping toasted bread in sweet condensed milk?



Haha, no. But there is only one word to describe it - sinful.

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## jhungary

Armstrong said:


> I tagged you like 5 times in the past week !



....i got none of the taggggggg

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## Armstrong

jhungary said:


> ....i got none of the taggggggg



There is something seriously wrong with the forum; sometimes I don't get a tag either !

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## jhungary

Armstrong said:


> There is something seriously wrong with the forum; sometimes I don't get a tag either !



...i have about 20 mention a day, i may missed the tag, but i just dont know u tagged me....

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## Keel

Jlaw said:


> the good ol HK 茶餐廳餐. Very well priced and taste pretty good.



Yup
HK styled restaurant is legendary
They are amongst the hallmarks of great Chinese cuisines
You can never find the same in any other western franchised restaurants around the globe as far as price and the depth and breath of the menus are concerned

In fact some of the dishes are "invented" by creative HK chefts

Example:
The "pineapple" bun above - there aint any shred of pineapple inside the buns but very tasty

"French / westen" toasts are served in unique HK restaurant style like these mouth-watering pieces












or this addictive curry flavoured "Singaporean" stir-fried vermicelli is not an authentic Singaporean dish












or these heavenly "Swiss" chicken wings are braised in Chinese condiments











or this yummy "Hainan' chicken and rice dishes with assorted dipping sauces aint created in Hainan island

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## Pangu

Keel said:


> Yup
> HK styled restaurant is legendary
> They are amongst the hallmarks of great Chinese cuisines
> You can never find the same in any other western franchised restaurants around the globe as far as price and the depth and breath of the menus are concerned
> 
> In fact some of the dishes are "invented" by creative HK chefts
> 
> Example:
> The "pineapple" bun above - there aint any shred of pineapple inside the buns but very tasty
> 
> "French / westen" toasts are served in unique HK restaurant style like these mouth-watering pieces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this addictive curry flavoured "Singaporean" stir-fried vermicelli is not an authentic Singaporean dish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or these heavenly "Swiss" chicken wings are braised in Chinese condiments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this yummy "Hainan' chicken and rice dish with assorted dipping sauces isnt created in Hainan island



It's close to 12 midnight here & you show me all these delicious food!?

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## Aepsilons

xudeen said:


> Haha, no. But there is only one word to describe it - sinful.



That is my morning sin, then, lol. What i do is toast 2 pieces of bread, then spread some butter on top. Afterwards that's when i take a spoon and spread sweet condensed milk on each. 

O man. That completes my morning coffee. 

Life is good...LOL!



Keel said:


>



This looks like Singaporean noodles sans the curry eh? I know Singaporean noodles has a rich curry base. 

Oh so good....carbohydrate heaven! LOL



xudeen said:


> It's close to 12 midnight here & you show me all these delicious food!?



LOL! 

Midnight snack time.

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## Pangu

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That is my morning sin, then, lol. What i do is toast 2 pieces of bread, then spread some butter on top. Afterwards that's when i take a spoon and spread sweet condensed milk on each.
> 
> O man. That completes my morning coffee.
> 
> Life is good...LOL!



Alrite buddy enjoy, but be careful of overloading & getting diabetes. If you see ants waiting at the urinal for you, then you've become their sugar daddy.

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## Aepsilons

xudeen said:


> Alrite buddy enjoy, but be careful of overloading & getting diabetes. If you see ants waiting at the urinal for you, then you've become their sugar daddy.



aww man.....i know thanks for reminder.


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## Aepsilons

Hong Kong (AFP) - As she walks through Hong Kong's Victoria Park on a busy Sunday afternoon, Erwiana Sulistyaningsih is stopped every few steps for photos and hugs.

Most of her fans are Indonesian domestic workers enjoying their weekly day off, gathering as they always do for food, dancing and a chat, but there are Hong Kong families too.

This is the former maid's final day in Hong Kong after winning her case against the abusive employer who beat, starved and kept her prisoner.

On Friday, Law Wan-tung, 44, was sentenced to six years in prison on 18 charges including grievous bodily harm, assault, criminal intimidation and failure to pay wages in a case that made headlines around the world.

It has turned the 24-year-old Indonesian into a hero for many of her peers, and though her case shone a spotlight on the abuse often suffered behind closed doors, she isn't finished yet.

"I still want to help my fellow migrant workers who are abused and neglected by my own government," she told AFP.

"If there's an opportunity, I would like to create a foundation to help with these issues and to educate the Indonesian community so that they can understand our basic problems outside the country and back in Indonesia."

Softly-spoken and slight, with newly bobbed hair and huddled in a quilted orange jacket, she is sceptical that Indonesia will take meaningful action to protect migrant workers, arguing that the problem is so multi-layered and deep-rooted there is no quick fix.

- Systemic problem -

From a poor farming family in east Java, Sulistyaningsih's parents could not afford to send her or her brother to university.

After graduating from high school she worked as a waitress but was determined to save up for college and to help support her family financially, so moved to Hong Kong to join its army of domestic workers in 2013.

The city is home to nearly 300,000 maids, mainly from Indonesia and the Philippines.

Sulistyaningsih says her story highlights Indonesia's endemic problems -- a lack of job opportunities and an unaffordable further education system.

"The government should provide accessible education especially for poor people," she says, as well as helping to create "decent jobs for decent pay, not just profit for investors".

That way, fewer people would feel they had to seek their fortune overseas, she says.

When they arrive in Hong Kong, the women known locally as "helpers" are often stung by massive agency fees back home, which leave them in debt -- something which local campaigners, Amnesty International and the judge in Sulistyaningsih's case highlighted as a major problem.

Sulistyaningsih herself says both her passport and a booklet explaining her rights were removed by her employment agency when she first set foot in the city.

"I was afraid because I had heard so much about migrant workers dying abroad, but I took the challenge hoping my fate would be better.

"Now I realise it's not just fate -- it's the system that makes us vulnerable."

Hong Kong-based campaign group Asian Migrants' Coordinating Body is planning to file an official complaint to the legislature about domestic workers' conditions, with the aim of forcing a reform debate in the city's de facto parliament.

- Lasting scars -

Sulistyaningsih says she is looking forward to resuming her studies in economics at the Catholic Private University in central Java, where she was offered a four-year scholarship after the establishment's owner read about her case.

While it is a new chapter after a three-month break for the trial, the impact of the abuse she suffered still clearly hangs over her.

"I hate the sound of loud voices," she said. "I still feel the trauma."

Her teeth remain chipped, her nose damaged and her feet scarred after the attacks by Law, and she still has regular counselling.

Both her mother, who had been a domestic worker in Brunei, and her father had been worried about her choice to leave, she says.

"My parents cried when they found out what had happened to me. But they are proud of me... at least I'm brave enough to speak out."

Sulistyaningsih's life will never be the same -- and while she smiles for the cameras in Victoria Park, there is a fierce determination to make her experience count for something.

"I feel very happy and relieved (after the verdict and sentencing) but in the back of my mind I think: 'If migrant workers are still being treated the same, what's it all for?'

"I will continue to fight with the government if they do not want to protect their workers."

Indonesian maid vows to fight on after Hong Kong court victory - Yahoo!7

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## Aepsilons

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Sulistyaningsih's life will never be the same -- and while she smiles for the cameras in Victoria Park, there is a fierce determination to make her experience count for something.
> 
> "I feel very happy and relieved (after the verdict and sentencing) but in the back of my mind I think: 'If migrant workers are still being treated the same, what's it all for?'
> 
> "I will continue to fight with the government if they do not want to protect their workers."



I pray that her noble spirit continue on to unravel these abuses ! Migrant workers should be protected and treated with decency.

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## Gufi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Migrant workers should be protected and treated with decency.


There should be special punishments for those who take away rights of migrant workers. I applaud your stance.

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## 70U63

A lot of countries can learn from this, especially those richer countries who hire a lot of foreign workers from poorer countries.

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## Jlaw

No Chinese is forcing phillippino and Indonesian maids to come over to Hk. They were tricked by local hiring agencies to come over, they should Crack down on them.
The Hk employer should not have physically assaulted her. He should have just fired her if he was unhappy with her work.

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## Aepsilons

Jlaw said:


> No Chinese is forcing phillippino and Indonesian maids to come over to Hk. They were tricked by local hiring agencies to come over, they should Crack down on them.
> The Hk employer should not have physically assaulted her. He should have just fired her if he was unhappy with her work.



Where there is a demand, there will always be a supply. Anyways, irrespective of what country they are from, domestic workers are still people and should be subject to decency and respect from the employers. Many year ago, there was an issue in Japan where the employer was abusing the Filipino domestic worker , and after it caught media attention, this resulted in stricter enforcement of hiring agencies. One thing that was being done was that the employer took the worker's passport from her. This is illegal and now there are laws to prosecute anyone who does this to employees -- and it us done severely by the courts.

This news report is a lesson for all of us, especially for societies in Asia who are bringing in domestic workers. It is hurtful for the domestic workers to be treated with no self respect, and it is shameful for those who are the ones abusing.



Gufi said:


> There should be special punishments for those who take away rights of migrant workers. I applaud your stance.



Of course, my friend.



70U63 said:


> A lot of countries can learn from this, especially those richer countries who hire a lot of foreign workers from poorer countries.



Absolutely!

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## Cossack25A1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Where there is a demand, there will always be a supply. Anyways, irrespective of what country they are from, domestic workers are still people and should be subject to decency and respect from the employers. Many year ago, there was an issue in Japan where the employer was abusing the Filipino domestic worker , and after it caught media attention, this resulted in stricter enforcement of hiring agencies. One thing that was being done was that the employer took the worker's passport from her. This is illegal and now there are laws to prosecute anyone who does this to employees -- and it us done severely by the courts.
> 
> This news report is a lesson for all of us, especially for societies in Asia who are bringing in domestic workers. It is hurtful for the domestic workers to be treated with no self respect, and it is shameful for those who are the ones abusing.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely!



There is supply-and-demand for foreign workers but if the politics and economic policies of the country where foreign workers came from were to change, it could lead to fewer foreign workers being "exported."

But yeah, hearing from the news, reading news articles and a few blogs, there are illegal agencies but cracking them down is not easy - many have ties with criminal organization, a few which may be backed by a politician.

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## Aepsilons

Cossack25A1 said:


> There is supply-and-demand for foreign workers but if the politics and economic policies of the country where foreign workers came from were to change, it could lead to fewer foreign workers being "exported."
> 
> But yeah, hearing from the news, reading news articles and a few blogs, there are illegal agencies but cracking them down is not easy - many have ties with criminal organization, a few which may be backed by a politician.



It is indeed very disgraceful to read reports of employers abusing their employees like this. In my hometown, there is a man who hired a Filipina domestic worker , eventually he ended up falling in love with that lady and they got married. Its funny , too, because the man mentioned was in his early 40s and the lady was in her early to mid 20s. Anyways, they have a lot of children , and the children keeps the guy active (he is much older now). As you can see not all domestic workers are treated unfairly, but there are some instances where employers do abuse them. 

Going back to what you said, however, you're right. If reports continue that domestic workers from a specific country are continuously maltreated abroad , specifically in a particular country, then the originating country may implement laws to stop the exporting of domestic workers. I think one example is Indonesia, which has recently passed a law that forbids sending of domestic workers abroad.

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## Nike

We want to stop to sending those maids in near future

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## Aepsilons

madokafc said:


> We want to stop to sending those maids in near future



As Indonesia continues to develop the nation's industry, and opens more jobs, more opportunities in the country then that should reduce the need for people to go abroad to look for work.

Going back to maids tho, I don't like to call them 'maids', but nanny because many of the house keepers (shiroi) who are hired are usually tasked with the primary duty of taking care of children. Growing up we had a Filipina maid who was more than just house keeper, but was also the baby sitter, 2nd mother figure especially to my younger siblings. It takes a lot of mental stamina and rigor to live abroad to care for other , and that's i consider the job duty very noble and respectable. I can still remember our nanny , who used to care for us dotingly. She would also teach us some basic Tagalog phrases. 

I personally find it disgusting to hear people talk down on domestic workers or make fun of nations who export them. Those who poke fun and talk down on these hard working , family oriented people are devoid of moral virtue.

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## Cossack25A1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> It is indeed very disgraceful to read reports of employers abusing their employees like this. In my hometown, there is a man who hired a Filipina domestic worker , eventually he ended up falling in love with that lady and they got married. Its funny , too, because the man mentioned was in his early 40s and the lady was in her early to mid 20s. Anyways, they have a lot of children , and the children keeps the guy active (he is much older now). As you can see not all domestic workers are treated unfairly, but there are some instances where employers do abuse them.
> 
> Going back to what you said, however, you're right. If reports continue that domestic workers from a specific country are continuously maltreated abroad , specifically in a particular country, then the originating country may implement laws to stop the exporting of domestic workers. I think one example is Indonesia, which has recently passed a law that forbids sending of domestic workers abroad.



Well I have seen Japanese men having Filipina wives that are younger thanks to the Arrival cards I had seen when I was still working at the PH Dept. of Tourism.

While in the PH we had laws, it is not quite implemented - either because of noncooperation, political will, the said "agency" is no longer trackable or simply corruption.

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## Aepsilons

Cossack25A1 said:


> Well I have seen Japanese men having Filipina wives that are younger thanks to the Arrival cards I had seen when I was still working at the PH Dept. of Tourism.
> 
> While in the PH we had laws, it is not quite implemented - either because of noncooperation, political will, the said "agency" is no longer trackable or simply corruption.



Its very common place for Japanese men who genuinely are looking for a wife , they do go to the Philippines because there is a stereotype (positive) that Filipina women are as beautiful as they are loyal and loving.

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## Indos

Indonesian domestic worker at Hongkong, looks amazing to see one who is praying there.....

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

Stopping workers is not the answer---the answer is in holding the abuser responsible for the act and creating an awareness in the community and nationwide---.

It is our moral obligation to respect people---regardless of their status---just because they are working for us---does not give us any right to control them.

We do not OWN these people and no one can own anyone---.

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## Aepsilons

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Stopping workers is not the answer---the answer is in holding the abuser responsible for the act and creating an awareness in the community and nationwide---.
> 
> It is our moral obligation to respect people---regardless of their status---just because they are working for us---does not give us any right to control them.
> 
> We do not OWN these people and no one can own anyone---.




100% agree with you, buddy.

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## Cossack25A1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> 100% agree with you, buddy.



In our case, we just want to reduce the reliance on the "OFW System" because it is not sustainable in the long run.... and our politicians (and the elite) are just milking on it.


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## Indos

This is the hero Erwiana (center), inspirational story indeed, Fight For Justice............

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## Shotgunner51

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hong Kong (AFP) - As she walks through Hong Kong's Victoria Park on a busy Sunday afternoon, Erwiana Sulistyaningsih is stopped every few steps for photos and hugs.
> 
> Most of her fans are Indonesian domestic workers enjoying their weekly day off, gathering as they always do for food, dancing and a chat, but there are Hong Kong families too.
> 
> This is the former maid's final day in Hong Kong after winning her case against the abusive employer who beat, starved and kept her prisoner.
> 
> On Friday, Law Wan-tung, 44, was sentenced to six years in prison on 18 charges including grievous bodily harm, assault, criminal intimidation and failure to pay wages in a case that made headlines around the world.
> 
> It has turned the 24-year-old Indonesian into a hero for many of her peers, and though her case shone a spotlight on the abuse often suffered behind closed doors, she isn't finished yet.
> 
> "I still want to help my fellow migrant workers who are abused and neglected by my own government," she told AFP.
> 
> "If there's an opportunity, I would like to create a foundation to help with these issues and to educate the Indonesian community so that they can understand our basic problems outside the country and back in Indonesia."
> 
> Softly-spoken and slight, with newly bobbed hair and huddled in a quilted orange jacket, she is sceptical that Indonesia will take meaningful action to protect migrant workers, arguing that the problem is so multi-layered and deep-rooted there is no quick fix.
> 
> - Systemic problem -
> 
> From a poor farming family in east Java, Sulistyaningsih's parents could not afford to send her or her brother to university.
> 
> After graduating from high school she worked as a waitress but was determined to save up for college and to help support her family financially, so moved to Hong Kong to join its army of domestic workers in 2013.
> 
> The city is home to nearly 300,000 maids, mainly from Indonesia and the Philippines.
> 
> Sulistyaningsih says her story highlights Indonesia's endemic problems -- a lack of job opportunities and an unaffordable further education system.
> 
> "The government should provide accessible education especially for poor people," she says, as well as helping to create "decent jobs for decent pay, not just profit for investors".
> 
> That way, fewer people would feel they had to seek their fortune overseas, she says.
> 
> When they arrive in Hong Kong, the women known locally as "helpers" are often stung by massive agency fees back home, which leave them in debt -- something which local campaigners, Amnesty International and the judge in Sulistyaningsih's case highlighted as a major problem.
> 
> Sulistyaningsih herself says both her passport and a booklet explaining her rights were removed by her employment agency when she first set foot in the city.
> 
> "I was afraid because I had heard so much about migrant workers dying abroad, but I took the challenge hoping my fate would be better.
> 
> "Now I realise it's not just fate -- it's the system that makes us vulnerable."
> 
> Hong Kong-based campaign group Asian Migrants' Coordinating Body is planning to file an official complaint to the legislature about domestic workers' conditions, with the aim of forcing a reform debate in the city's de facto parliament.
> 
> - Lasting scars -
> 
> Sulistyaningsih says she is looking forward to resuming her studies in economics at the Catholic Private University in central Java, where she was offered a four-year scholarship after the establishment's owner read about her case.
> 
> While it is a new chapter after a three-month break for the trial, the impact of the abuse she suffered still clearly hangs over her.
> 
> "I hate the sound of loud voices," she said. "I still feel the trauma."
> 
> Her teeth remain chipped, her nose damaged and her feet scarred after the attacks by Law, and she still has regular counselling.
> 
> Both her mother, who had been a domestic worker in Brunei, and her father had been worried about her choice to leave, she says.
> 
> "My parents cried when they found out what had happened to me. But they are proud of me... at least I'm brave enough to speak out."
> 
> Sulistyaningsih's life will never be the same -- and while she smiles for the cameras in Victoria Park, there is a fierce determination to make her experience count for something.
> 
> "I feel very happy and relieved (after the verdict and sentencing) but in the back of my mind I think: 'If migrant workers are still being treated the same, what's it all for?'
> 
> "I will continue to fight with the government if they do not want to protect their workers."
> 
> Indonesian maid vows to fight on after Hong Kong court victory - Yahoo!7



It's a *victory of HK's judiciary system* as well, which continues to demonstrate it's ability in defending human rights and lawful freedom of individuals, no matter what are their nationalities. Hats off to HK!

A comparison should be made to the Ferguson crisis. Why the blacks are not protected by the law when an illegal abuse is made by whites?

A key take-away for Chinese is that China should also establish rules to protect the rights of foreign workers here, as we are seeing more of them going to into the country. English-speaking Christian Filipino maids (and Indonesian to a lesser extent) are getting more and more popular in China, just in Shanghai alone, the market is estimated to exceed HK, Singapore or Taiwan, both in quantity and salary level. However due to the lack of relevant law/policy here a lot of them work under tourist visa, and hence fall outside the radar of Labor/Tax department, I hope China government look into this and do something asap.

_沪人大代表建议引进“菲佣” 菲佣能提升中国家政服务业水平？_

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## Aepsilons

Shotgunner51 said:


> It's a *victory of HK's judiciary system* as well, which continues to demonstrate it's ability in defending human rights and lawful freedom of individuals, no matter what are their nationalities. Hats off to HK!
> 
> A key take-away for Chinese is that China should also establish rules to protect the rights of foreign workers here, as we are seeing more of them going to into the country. English-speaking Christian Filipino maids (and Indonesian to a lesser extent) are getting more and more popular in China, just in Shanghai alone, the market is estimated to exceed HK, Singapore or Taiwan, both in quantity and salary level. However due to the lack of relevant law/policy here a lot of them work under tourist visa, and hence fall outside the radar of Labor/Tax department, I hope China government look into this and do something asap.
> 
> _沪人大代表建议引进“菲佣” 菲佣能提升中国家政服务业水平？_



Agreed. This is a victory for the entire Chinese people because this is testament that Chinese Judicial System (afterall Hong Kong Judiciary is still part of the comprehensive Chinese Judicial System) is maturing in its quest to protect civil rights of domestic workers. Since there are some Chinese domestic workers (from country side / rural areas) working in the large cities such as Shanghai, Dalian, Ningbo, etc, sometimes some of them may experience abuse by their employers. It is time now that China, as a maturing and highly developing nation to secure the workers' rights of its work force even more now. 

So, a victory to foreign domestic workers, and a victory to the objectivity and fairness of Chinese Judicial System !

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## StarCraft_ZT

Shotgunner51 said:


> It's a *victory of HK's judiciary system* as well, which continues to demonstrate it's ability in defending human rights and lawful freedom of individuals, no matter what are their nationalities. Hats off to HK!
> 
> A key take-away for Chinese is that China should also establish rules to protect the rights of foreign workers here, as we are seeing more of them going to into the country. English-speaking Christian Filipino maids (and Indonesian to a lesser extent) are getting more and more popular in China, just in Shanghai alone, the market is estimated to exceed HK, Singapore or Taiwan, both in quantity and salary level. However due to the lack of relevant law/policy here a lot of them work under tourist visa, and hence fall outside the radar of Labor/Tax department, I hope China government look into this and do something asap.
> 
> _沪人大代表建议引进“菲佣” 菲佣能提升中国家政服务业水平？_



Interesting.


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## NarThoD

New Indonesia administration is currenty planning to stop sending migrant workers abroad. But we can't force them all suddenly back home as they will be an unemployment now. By growing economy, more job oppurtunities will open and slowly but surely we're taking them home and enjoy developement with them

Although our gov vows to not choose to become a migrant workers, many Indonesians especially who are unemployed are seeking fast way and halal to earn living.

Most of Indonesian migrant workers overseas receive Rp. 22 million ($2000) for a month.
In Japan they receive 200 thousands Yen (20 million rupiahs/$1800-2000)
In Taiwan is 19.047 Won (6 million rupiah/$500)
In Africa and Middle east the pay is USD500-USD1.200

It's quite a money for just taking care house, cleaning, etc.

Indonesia has already signed MoU with Malaysia and Singapore in 2009 regarding to protect foreign worker rights

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## Anees

*Hong Kong (CNN)"Go back home!"

"Locusts! You're not welcome here!"*

These were just some of the insults hurled at Chinese shoppers Sunday as hundreds of Hong Kongers surged through through the old neighborhood of Yuen Long, an area close to the city's border with China.

It was the latest in a series of angry protests that have seen brawls erupt in humdrum shopping malls, with demonstrators singling out the "parallel traders" who crowd into Hong Kong to purchase tax-free products and then resell them for a profit back in China.

"I've grown up here, and ever since a lot of the Chinese started coming into Hong Kong, things have changed," said Suen, a law student who only gave her surname.

Clad in a mask to protect against police wielding pepper spray, she took part in the protest with her mother.

Local residents say the traders are not only disturbing the peace, but are driving up the price of food, rent, and gutting local neighborhoods of their character - the city has become a blur of jewelers, pharmacies and other businesses that cater primarily to Chinese shoppers.

"Previously there were a lot of indigenous places like restaurants, but all of them have closed," said Suen, standing across from a store selling baby milk powder - the top item on many Chinese tourists' shopping lists.

"It's very difficult to be very welcoming."



*Growing tensions*


Tensions have long been simmering between Hong Kong and the motherland, and parallel trading is just one of the thorny issues brought about by the influx of mainland Chinese to the city.

A series of food scandals -- most notably in 2008 when melamine-tainted milk powder caused infant deaths across China -- led to shortages of baby milk formula in Hong Kong as Chinese flocked to buy up the city's supplies.

The ensuing uproar led the government to introduce a law limiting the purchase to two tins per traveler leaving the city.









[paste:font size="4"]



Why don't Hong Kong & China get along? 02:16
PLAY VIDEO
Last year, 31 million Chinese visitors traveled to Hong Kong, accounting for 78% of all tourists, according to the government. But the numbers hide that the visitors aren't all sightseeing tourists in the traditional sense.

There are the day-trippers, wheeling suitcases and carting boxes of goods and supplies across the border, but there is also an increasing number of wealthy mainland Chinese who are buying up luxury properties, and visit the city on a regular basis.

According to the Global Property Guide, developers say as much as 40% of new home buyers are from China.

Residents blame them for causing a hike in real estate prices in what reports say is already themost expensive property market in the world.

Both the Chinese and Hong Kong government have encouraged mainland tourists to visit the city and boost the local economy.

Relaxed restrictions have made it easy for Chinese residents to get a hold of individual multiple-entry permits -- some mainlanders enter hundreds of times a year on a single pass.

This has infuriated protestors, particularly the younger generation, who want the government to scrap the permits.

In a speech last Tuesday, the city's pro-Beijing leader C.Y. Leung announced that his government would examine restricting mainland visitors, acknowledging the pressure the crowds have had on the everyday lives of Hong Kong residents.

But the permit controversy is just one symptom of a deeper conflict.



*A question of identity*


When it comes down to it, it's simple: Many Hong Kongers just don't feel very Chinese.

According to a recent survey by the Chinese University of Hong Kong, the number of Hong Kong residents identifying primarily as "Chinese" has dipped to an all-time low since the former British colony was returned to Chinese control in 1997.

The majority of respondents said they were "Hong Kongers first, and also Chinese."

Earlier in 2012, plans to add Chinese civic education into the Hong Kong public school curriculum caused an uproar, resulting in a city-wide protest with locals claiming it would "brainwash" school children with pro-mainland propaganda.








[/paste:font]



On China: Hong Kong's Umbrella Movement 01:34
PLAY VIDEO
Hong Kong, ruled under China's principle of "One country, two systems," means the city is a officially part of China, but is allowed rights and freedoms unseen in other Chinese cities.

But there's one key privilege Beijing has refused to grant to Hong Kong: Free and open elections for their own leader.

Frustrated Hong Kongers have tried everything to demand greater voting rights, from hunger strikes to massive street occupations, with no luck.

That's why people in Hong Kong feel an increasing sense of resentment and helplessness when it comes to solving the complex, growing rift between their city and mainland China.

A small but growing minority of disgruntled activists go as far as to say Hong Kong should not belong to China at all.

"We Hong Kong people have our own culture, we have our own currency, we have all the requirements to build a country." said Julian Li, a member of a radical pro-Hong Kong group.

"For decades we have been fighting against civic rights, democracy. However, no matter how much we have been working, it's like we're begging for something that will never happen."



*Can't we all just get along?*


Many mainland Chinese are bewildered by the anger directed at them.

"It's normal for people to spend money and shop here, why are they protesting?" said a Chinese tourist waiting at a bus stop to get away from the angry crowds.

She said her suitcase was loaded with make-up and clothing that is much cheaper to buy in Hong Kong than across the border in her hometown of Zhuhai.









So long, Hong Kong! Chinese tourists seek new sites 02:10
PLAY VIDEO
"There's definitely an element of discrimination against mainlanders here. I'm not saying everyone is like that in Hong Kong, but there are certain people who are very prejudiced," she added.

Another Chinese resident who makes weekly visits to relatives in the city was sitting on a curb away from the ruckus. She said her friends have considered boycotting Hong Kong altogether.

"My friends on WeChat say, don't come to Hong Kong, let's burn our travel permits," she said as she thumbed through the receipts of her latest purchases.

"We should all just be more considerate and tolerant of each other, we're just here to shop. Let's just be happy," she said.

READ: Hong Kong's teen activists vow to return to the streets

Hong Kong to Chinese shoppers: 'Go home' - CNN.com

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## black-hawk_101

It would be good for China to make Hong Kong a separate country.


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## Sanchez

black-hawk_101 said:


> It would be good for China to make Hong Kong a separate country.



After 50 years since 1997 Hongkong will be ruled under the same Chinese law. Those few "bananas" could move to UK because they are British passport holders.

Hongkong is totally dependent on us for fresh water, food and electricity. How come it can be another country?

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## black-hawk_101

Sanchez said:


> After 50 years since 1997 Hongkong will be ruled under the same Chinese law. Those few "bananas" could move to UK because they are British passport holders.
> 
> Hongkong is totally dependent on us for fresh water, food and electricity. How come it can be another country?


They can make on their own, Food can easily be imported from China and water too. Electricity let the EU or USA step in with Nuclear option.


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## Sanchez

black-hawk_101 said:


> They can make on their own, Food can easily be imported from China and water too. Electricity let the EU or USA step in with Nuclear option.



You know too little about hongkong....keep dreaming

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## ChineseTiger1986

black-hawk_101 said:


> They can make on their own, Food can easily be imported from China and water too. Electricity let the EU or USA step in with Nuclear option.



They are a tiny island with some of the highest population density, and without China's supply, it will become inhabitable within a week.

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## Keel

HK independance is an immediate death certificate for the city
As long as the dissidents agree to leave, there is no issue with China whatsoever!

Let those people live in an island in the Pacific somewhere and continue their lives and to have their own law, governance and statehood there. Just dont create troubles in our doorstep where they are consistently proving their worth to their masters for paychecks





Chinese Red Lacquer and Decorated Fall-Front Bureau on Stand.

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## TheMatador

Now Xi Jinping will crack down on the Hong Kong dissidents. Put them in labor camps until they become good communists.

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## Khalid Newazi

Let me guess, ultra-nationalists.


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## Tom99

black-hawk_101 said:


> It would be good for China to make Hong Kong a separate country.



Hong Kong and China have benefited each other a lot under the 1-country-2 system governence. Vast majority of the Hong Kong people knows and understand benefits. And the economic growth the mainland chinese bring to Hong Kong can't be underestimated. When HK was under the threat of economic crisis , it was the power spending by these chinese tourists have helped HK avoid any down turns. However, as with many countries, there are racist , bigots that likes to discriminate other people(even though in this case both people are of the same race but the actions are pretty much the same). These few non mainstream masked protestors that screams at and threatened these chinese tourists will not in any way possible in changing the relationship between HK and China.




TheMatador said:


> Now Xi Jinping will crack down on the Hong Kong dissidents. Put them in labor camps until they become good communists.



I don't think Xi Jinping or China would every do something like that these days. However, China can stop them from coming into mainland and teach these chinese tourists to call for police when they are threatened by these so-call protestors and let the HK laws deal with them.

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## JF-17-PAF

They forgot that are they also Chinese.

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## areal

it's only about a small number of people who have UK passports, hired by foreign intelligence (we know who they are, but not discover their identities at this time), destroy the harmony relation between mainland of China and Hong Kong.

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## Keel

areal said:


> it's only about a small number of people who have UK passports, hired by foreign intelligence (we know who they are, but not discover their identities at this time), destroy the harmony relation between mainland of China and Hong Kong.



These losers can do the litmus tests by presenting their permits / passports for entry into China
仁者得仁 The immigration officers will serve them well

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## Keel

*Retail sales record largest drop in nearly six years in January*
March 3, 2015

In January, retail sales fell 13.9% over the same month last year, which followed the revised 1.4% decline tallied in December (previously reported: -1.3% year-on-year). While January’s drop represented the steepest contraction since February 2009, it also reflected the different timing of the Chinese New Year, which fell in mid-February this year and in late January in 2014. The print exceeded the 5.5% drop that markets had expected. The deterioration tallied in January was felt in almost all the subcategories of the index, with the jewelry and luxury goods sector and sales at supermarkets recording the largest contractions. 

A government spokesman explained that in order to assess January’s drop, “it would be more meaningful to examine the retail sales figures for January and February combined for a clearer picture of the underlying trend” due to disruptions associated to the Chinese New Year. The official also noted that, “ahead, the near-term performance of retail sales will continue to hinge on the labour market conditions and inbound tourism growth.”

Retail sales rose a seasonally-adjusted 2.5% in the three-month period up to January compared to the previous three months ending in October. The reading followed the 3.9% increase recorded in the previous month.

FocusEconomics Consensus Forecast panelists expect retail sales to expand 5.6% in 2015, which is up 0.7 percentage points over last month’s projection. Next year, the panel sees retail sales growing 6.0%.

*Hong Kong Retail Chart*







*Note:* Year-on-year changes and annual average variation in %.
*Source:* Census and Statistics Department Hong Kong. 


Who is going to gain from these politically motivated and racists ruckuses?

The news is not welcome but we are celebrating the Lantern Festival on the 15th day of the Lunar NY anyway

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## Beast

Hong Kong business knows they are dependent on mainland tourist. Just a small group of pest not benefitting from cross strait system does not mean all hong konger do not welcome mainland tourist.

Remember this report is by CNN. They are good at report one thing while keeping another side of the news unreported to continue their China bashing.

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## xunzi

Hong Kong should not bite the hand the feed them. As a matter of fact, they get to enjoy free access to our mainland and invest without restriction. If we are serious, we can destroy this little island or sink it if you will.

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## Jlaw

Sanchez said:


> After 50 years since 1997 Hongkong will be ruled under the same Chinese law. Those few "bananas" could move to UK because they are British passport holders.
> 
> Hongkong is totally dependent on us for fresh water, food and electricity. How come it can be another country?


The Hk people born prior to 97 doesn't have the right as permanent resident to live and work in the UK. Even their former slavers don't want them.

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## opruh

These people are trying too hard to please white men by badmouthing the Chinese when in reality they are also Chinese.
Indeed even in first-world country, you can still find a lot of dumb people.

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## BoQ77

Going home


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## Ryuzaki

Beast said:


> Hong Kong business knows they are dependent on mainland tourist. Just a small group of pest not benefitting from cross strait system does not mean all hong konger do not welcome mainland tourist.
> 
> Remember this report is by CNN. They are good at report one thing while keeping another side of the news unreported to continue their China bashing.


agree with you on that,having observed several anti-India posts


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## KAL-EL

My apologies in advance for asking what might seem like a silly type of question. How do the Hong Kongers know exactly who is who when Chinese visitors come into their shops?


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## Yizhi

... from Shenzhen.



KAL-EL said:


> My apologies in advance for asking what might seem like a silly type of question. How do the Hong Kongers know exactly who is who when Chinese visitors come into their shops?


Mandarin. and fashion taste of dressing.
Cantonese speaking youth they probably can't tell.

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## kuge

KAL-EL said:


> My apologies in advance for asking what might seem like a silly type of question. How do the Hong Kongers know exactly who is who when Chinese visitors come into their shops?


probably by their disruptive unruly behaviours like talking loudly etc ...??


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

There are some shallow and pretentious groups in Hong Kong who apparently do not possess mirrors. 

Young people must go through periods of privation, poverty and austerity in order to develop a sense of humility. Otherwise they become sick, frivolous and twisted lapdogs like the sellouts in Hong Kong.

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## ravi kiran

TaiShang said:


> In fact, India faces real (not bloated and hyped-up some teenage romanticism) separatism springing up everywhere.
> 
> Indians better worry about their own situation before poking their nose in China's internal affairs.
> 
> 
> Bodoland tribal separatists kill at least 34 in Assam, Indian police say | World news | The Guardian
> 
> This is just one example:
> 
> National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)- Terrorist Group of Assam
> 
> 
> *National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Incidents and Statements involving NDFB: 2015, 2014, 2013, 1998-2012*
> *Formation*
> 
> 
> An outfit named Bodo Security Force (BdSF), under the leadership of Ranjan Daimary, was formed on October 3, 1986. On November 25, 1994, the BdSF rechristened itself as the National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB).
> 
> The outfit, since May 2005, is under a ceasefire agreement with the Assam and Union Government.
> 
> *Objectives*
> 
> The NDFB was formed with the purported objective of securing a ‘sovereign Bodoland’ in the areas north of the river Brahmaputra. According to the ‘constitution’ of the outfit, which was adopted on March 10, 1998, nearly twelve years after its formation, the objectives of the outfit are the following.
> 
> *Liberate Bodoland from the Indian expansionism and occupation;*
> *Free the Bodo nation from the colonialist exploitation, oppression and domination;*
> *Establish a Democratic Socialist Society to promote Liberty, Equality and Fraternity; and*
> 
> 
> *Uphold the integrity and sovereignty of Bodoland.*
> 
> 
> Another significant demand of the NDFB concerns the script of the Bodo language. Currently, the Bodo language is written in Devnagri script; NDFB, whose members are mostly Christians and prefer to use the Roman script.
> 
> The outfit, on December 15, 2008, indicated that it will take part "indirectly or directly" in the forthcoming elections to the Lok Sabha (lower house of parliament).
> 
> *Leadership*
> 
> On December 15, 2008, the NDFB, held its general assembly meeting at Serfanguri designated camp in Kokrajhar District and elected B. Sungthagra alias Dhiren Boro as the new President of the outfit. B. Sungthagra was previously the vice-President of the outfit. He had been arrested in Gangtok, capital of the State of Sikkim on January 1, 2003 and was released this year. He replaced Ranjan Daimary alias D R Nabla, who is based in Bangladesh. While security agencies described the election as a split in the organisation, NDFB sources denied any such development.
> 
> B Swmkhwr alias Govinda Basumatary is the outfit's General Secretary. He had been arrested on November 25, 2002 and has been released. B. Sanjarang is NDFB's publicity secretary and B. Benga its 'Speaker'. Finance secretary, Nileswar Basumatary alias B J Jabda had surrendered to the Assam Police authorities in Guwahati on March 17, 2004. He too has been released. NDFB's 'deputy commander-in-chief', Bijoy Boro, was arrested in Bangkok during July 2004 and was subsequently deported to India. At present he is under the custody of the Assam Police.
> 
> The 'publicity secretary', 'Lieutenant' B Irakdao is reported to be missing following the Bhutanese military operations in December 2003. On June 5, 2004, Bhutan handed over the head of the NDFB's 'central headquarters', Lt. B Udang alias Udang K R Brahma to the Indian authorities.
> 
> *Areas of Operation*
> 
> During its active days, the areas in the north and north-west of the river Brahmaputra in Assam formed the main expanse of operation of the outfit. The NDFB was active in the Bongaigaon, Kokrajhar, Darrang, Barpeta, Dhubri, Nalbari and Sonitpur districts. It was also known to be active in the Garo hills region of Meghalaya, close to the Assam-Meghalaya border.
> 
> Before the outfit announced a unilateral ceasefire with the Security Forces in 2004, its activities were reported from Nalbari, Barpeta, Dhubri, Sonitpur, Kokrajhar, Bongaigaon, Chirang and Karbi Anglong Districts.
> 
> *Cadre Strength*
> 
> *Prior to the military operations in Bhutan in December 2003, the strength of Bodoland Army, the armed wing of the NDFB, was estimated to be around 3500. Most of its cadres were based in the 12 camps located in southern Bhutan. However, a large number of cadres either surrendered or were arrested during and after the operations. The strength of the outfit, was then estimated at about 2000. Prior to the declaration of ceasefire with the Security Forces, most NDFB cadres were based in the outfit’s camps in Myanmar and Bangladesh. Additionally, there were several temporary camps in different locations of Arunachal Pradesh and in the Garo hills region of Meghalaya.*
> 
> At present, the NDFB cadres are located within the three designated camps set up in Assam following the May 2005 tri-partite agreement. A number of cadres live in their native villages complaining of inadequate facilities within the camps.
> 
> *Arms and Ammunition*
> 
> *The NDFB cadres, during their operations, had access to sophisticated arms and ammunition. They were found to be using AK Series rifles, light machine guns, M-16 rifles, rocket propelled grenades, mortars and Chinese-make grenades. Many of the NDFB cadres are trained in making and planting improvised explosive devices (IEDs).*
> 
> *Linkages*
> 
> *The NDFB acts in collaboration with the ULFA. Authorities in Assam blamed the outfit to have acted in cooperation with the ULFA to carry out the October 2008 serial explosions in the State.
> 
> In addition, the NDFB shares a close relationship with the other outfits like the Kamatapur Liberation Organisation (KLO), the Achik National Volunteers Council (ANVC) and the National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Khaplang (NSCN-K). Unconfirmed reports also suggest linkages between the Maoists of Nepal and the NDFB.*
> 
> According to a list submitted by the Indian authorities to their counterparts in Bangladesh, the NDFB maintains at least two camps in the Khagrachari and Tangail districts of that country.
> 
> Prior to its dislodgment from Bhutan, the outfit was reported to have established working relationship with certain elements in Bhutan. Several Bhutanese officials were reported to have visited the training camps located inside Bhutan and have been alleged to openly aiding the NDFB cadres.
> 
> NDFB, along with the ULFA, on various occasions was found to be allegedly channelling its funds through the "Bhutanese diplomatic bag" to their leaders based in Southeast Asian capitals.
> 
> The Chin National Liberation Army (CNLA), a militant outfit of Myanmar, has also supplied arms and ammunition to the NDFB in the past.
> 
> *Negotiations for Peace*
> 
> The NDFB, on October 8, 2004, announced a six-month long unilateral ceasefire with effect from October 15. The move was not reciprocated by the Government and security force operations continued against the outfit, amidst threats of a pull out by the outfit. At the end of the cease-fire period, the outfit further extended the truce on April 15. Meanwhile, the Assam Government released Govinda Basumatary, the arrested general secretary, to open a channel of communication with the outfit's top leadership reportedly based in Bangladesh. Several parleys between the outfit's leadership and representatives of the Union Government and Government of Assam were held in different parts of the State and New Delhi. It resulted in the signing of a tripartite ceasefire agreement on May 25, 2005, at New Delhi. The ceasefire agreement, since, has been periodically extended, although formal peace talks are yet to begin.



Stick to topic. and topic is issue related to China and HK.


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## Keel

kuge said:


> probably by their disruptive unruly behaviours like talking loudly etc ...??


 
That is like the French complaining about the Americans when they are visiting France
There are people mishaving all over the world 
I am sure there are those " equals" from Malaysia or India

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## Aepsilons

This thread is , by nature, a troll bait. 

Sir @Hu Songshan , can we please close this thread?

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## TaiShang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> This thread is , by nature, a troll bait.
> 
> Sir @Hu Songshan , can we please close this thread?



Indeed. As a matter of fact, so many flame or troll-baiting threads have been opened by Indians recently as you may observe.

To seek and find posts that might agitate those Indians are so easy if one wants to go down to their level. But I rather not open any such thread although I respond if I see such threads are initiated by hateful and obsessed Indians.

It is not a secret that India suffers from a number of violent separatism. When those Indians talk badly about China, they forget that they can be easily replied back as their social and national conditions are worse than most countries in sub-Saharan areas.

HK is China's internal business and Indians should keep their nose off. Otherwise we can share certain factual stories that are 100X worse off than the situation in HK.

Separatist Movements and Sectarian Tensions Turned Violent in India This Week | VICE | United States

No body wants human suffering and national disintegration. Filthy and inefficient nations, especially, are in danger of disintegration. I do not wish that to happen to India. And I am in no urge to share such news.

Indians are better mind their own business.

@Hu Songshan , sir, certain Indian-initiated threads are only to flame-baiting and troll-fest-ing. I kindly request those threads to be deleted and the OPs to be banned. Indians are apparently in need of such treatment from time to time.

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## Aepsilons

TaiShang said:


> Indeed. As a matter of fact, so many flame or troll-baiting threads have been opened by Indians recently as you may observe.
> 
> To seek and find posts that might agitate those Indians are so easy if one wants to go down to their level. But I rather not to open any such thread although I respond if I see such threads are initiated by hateful and obsessed Indians.
> 
> It is not a secret that India suffers from a number of violent separatism. When those Indians talk badly about China, they forget that they can be easily replied back as their social and national conditions are worse than most countries in sub-Saharan areas.
> 
> HK is China's internal business and Indians should keep their nose clear. Otherwise we can share certain factual stories that are 100X of the situation in HK.
> 
> Separatist Movements and Sectarian Tensions Turned Violent in India This Week | VICE | United States
> 
> No body wants human suffering and national disintegration. Filthy and inefficient nations, especially, are in danger of disintegration. I do not wish that to happen to India. And I am no urge to share such news.
> 
> Indians are better mind their own business.



I'm tired of reading troll bait threads, flame wars, and just the unabashed vitriol being thrown in recent threads. There are also various threads created by some members in the guise of discussion, but are nothing but troll baits to bash certain countries, and to attract trolls.

Is it so hard to read productive threads ? Whats interesting is that 'new members' , many of whom are false flaggers, come in and start posting ridiculous news reports that have little to do with anything related to nation states and the strategy of the greater East Asian region.

I agree with what you said before regarding some members, its just best to ignore these insidious, derisive trolls. From reading some of the writing style of one member who has been posting anti china threads, he's a reincarnation of a banned member. I hope the admin team bans him again.


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## ravi kiran

HONG KONG — In 1947, my 40-year-old grandfather left his comfortable teaching position in Guangzhou, in southern China, to search for a job in Hong Kong.

Two years later, as civil war raged in China, my grandparents and their seven children packed into a crowded train filled with refugees fleeing to Hong Kong, the war-ravaged British colony still struggling to recover from the Japanese occupation. They were among the hundreds of thousands of people escaping to Hong Kong in the months before the Communist Party took control of China in October 1949.

During the past century, mainland Chinese people have gotten used to leaving their homeland. Many left in desperation — some in search of better job opportunities, while many others emigrated to escape the political tumult that has plagued our history. Hong Kong, which the British handed back to the Chinese in 1997, has been a common refuge. Between 1950 and 1980 hundreds of thousands of people came here from the mainland.

But recent political turmoil in Hong Kong has prompted many people here, including my family and me, to consider moving away. Hong Kongers no longer see their home as a safe haven from mainland politics.

A survey conducted last summer by the Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups, a nongovernmental organization, just as the political tensions between Hong Kong and Beijing were heating up, found that 62 percent of people ages 15-39 want to leave — by far the highest number since its first poll in 1997.

An immigration consultant told me that in the closing months of last year, during the heat of the pro-democracy protests, he received triple the normal amount of inquiries about moving abroad — the majority of them being middle-aged parents anxious about their children’s future.

A friend of mine, a mother of two in her 40s, said she can no longer stand Hong Kong’s soaring property prices, deepening inequality and increasingly muzzled press, and feels there is little ordinary citizens can do about these problems. After Beijing took no heed of the pro-democracy protesters’ demands in the autumn, she made up her mind to emigrate.

“How much longer do we have to wait for democracy — do I really have to wait till I’m 80?” she asked.

It’s not the first time Hong Kongers have felt compelled to leave. In the 1980s, many of those who had been comfortably distant from the mainland’s problems started to worry about the looming return to Chinese rule in 1997.

Worry turned into panic in Hong Kong in June 1989, when the Chinese government opened fire on student protesters in the Tiananmen Square pro-democracy movement. In 1990, the year after the massacre, some 62,000 Hong Kongers, or about 1 percent of the population, emigrated. The wave continued in the following years.

The Tiananmen crackdown unnerved my family and prompted some to take action. My own parents and most of my aunts and uncles left in the early 1990s.

“A regime that kills its own young people — that’s just too scary,” said one of my aunts, who had two young children at the time. They moved to Australia; other relatives went to Canada, New Zealand and Britain. My parents, already in their 50s, gave up their stable jobs and went to Britain, where I was attending a university.

Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story
Much of my family, especially in my generation, returned to Hong Kong years later after having acquired citizenship abroad. Most of us prefer to be closer to our cultural roots, and there were more job opportunities here. The general thinking was that if anything awful happened, with a foreign passport in hand, we could all flee again.


That time has come. Beijing’s refusal to grant genuine democracy to Hong Kong — it insists on screening candidates for Hong Kong’s “election” for the city’s leader in 2017 — and its hostility toward people clamoring for free elections, plus its avowed determination to instill a sense of patriotism among our children, makes many Hong Kongers, especially parents like me with young children, nervous.

I dread the idea of my children growing up in a society where the values of Hong Kong — such as the rule of law, freedom of press, speech and assembly — are being eroded.

More and more, we feel Hong Kong is becoming just another Chinese city. Since the start of the Umbrella Movement in late September, we have seen the police using tactics against activists that resemble those used in China to prosecute critics of the government.

I don’t want to tell my children my worry that if one day they take part in demonstrations or post critical comments online, the police might take them away.

Most Hong Kongers can’t just pack up and leave. Although I have a British passport, moving away isn’t what I want. I chose to return to Hong Kong just months before the handover in 1997. I was genuinely proud that this city would no longer be a colony and believed that as China became more open and integrated with the rest of the world, Hong Kong would continue to flourish under Chinese sovereignty.

The year that “one country two systems” officially ends — 2047 — will be 100 years after my grandfather decided to seek refuge in Hong Kong. By then, my children will be in their 30s, and they may be long gone. It hurts to think that Hong Kong has become a place that his great grandchildren might flee.

_ Verna Yu  is a freelance writer living in Hong Kong._

_http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/19/opinion/giving-up-on-hong-kong.html?ref=topics

_


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## 70U63

Some of these people are living in their own world.
Of course there is a influence from Beijing because Hong Kong is belong to China and both use different political system.
i think in their view (same as western standard), non-democratic system = bad.

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## YoucanYouup

70U63 said:


> Some of these people are living in their own world.
> Of course there is a influence from Beijing because Hong Kong is belong to China and both use different political system.
> i think in their view (same as western standard), non-democratic system = bad.


not "bad"
currently words is “evil pagan ”

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## DragonEmpire

Your surrender is accepted now scram!

Hong Kong will now be called Democratic People's Socialist Special Administrative Region of Mao Zedong City (formerly Hong Kong)

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## Nan Yang

Economically, Hong Kong is doing every well. Which government in the world would returned tax money to it's people because of a budget surplus? Doesn't make logical sense to leave Hong Kong. Many Malaysian Chinese would be more than happy to move there.

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## YoucanYouup

I feel this story（or fairy tale， anyways） wrote as the same way
This “devil China” exist in another world line， and correcting wrong illusions is a huge project.
Fortunately, we don't allow the devout believers of western-democracy-magic burning the second giordano bruno



DragonEmpire said:


> Your surrender is accepted now scram!
> 
> Hong Kong will now be called Democratic People's Socialist Special Administrative Region of Mao Zedong City (formerly Hong Kong)


I guess British company lose its stake, and they drive the "democracy government of UK" and medias control by capitalist to blacken mainland Chinese name, and threaten Chinese return bonus
LOL



Nan Yang said:


> Economically, Hong Kong is doing every well. Which government in the world would returned tax money to it's people because of a budget surplus? Doesn't make logical sense to leave Hong Kong. Many Malaysian Chinese would be more than happy to move there.


Truth is not important
journalist work for his salary,and who pay for it?

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## Keel

India is the perfect place for these people






Wax printing art by ethnic Miao people
苗族蜡印

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## ravi kiran

YoucanYouup said:


> not "bad"
> currently words is “evil pagan ”


what do you mean???



DragonEmpire said:


> Your surrender is accepted now scram!
> 
> Hong Kong will now be called Democratic People's Socialist Special Administrative Region of Mao Zedong City (formerly Hong Kong)






Keel said:


> India is the perfect place for these people


why are you bringing India here???
stay on topic.


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## YoucanYouup

ravi kiran said:


> what do you mean???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why are you bringing India here???
> stay on topic.


heretic of western-democracy-magic


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## Place Of Space

YoucanYouup said:


> heretic of western-democracy-magic



I summarize this kind of Indian propaganda many days ago: Sounds like American, leads Indian living standard. 

If Indians would like to introduce Indian dance, Holi festival to me, I am happy to accept; they spread this rubbish politics, I won't take him seriously.

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## ravi kiran

YoucanYouup said:


> heretic of western-democracy-magic


but i dont understand one thing as HK is integral part of China. there is no dispute over this.
then why there is separate system for HK. 
why China is not applying the same system of mainland to HK?????



Place Of Space said:


> I summarize this kind of Indian propaganda many days ago: Sounds like American, leads Indian living standard.
> 
> If Indians would like to introduce Indian dance, Holi festival to me, I am happy to accept; they spread this rubbish politics, I won't take him seriously.


I am not trolling and I am seriously asking some questions. care to answer them???

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## YoucanYouup

ravi kiran said:


> but i dont understand one thing as HK is integral part of China. there is no dispute over this.
> then why there is separate system for HK.
> why China is not applying the same system of mainland to HK?????


Maybe it is the result of negotiate, and 90s was severe winter of China, Chinese at that time didn't foreseed warm spring would come, they had just a little confidence of our society system

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## TaiShang

Keel said:


> India is the perfect place for these people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wax printing art by ethnic Miao people
> 苗族蜡印



I wish these people move to India, which is said to be a democracy. 

If they avoid a painful death from dirty water in their first week of stay,or able to travel to the nearest travel agency without being raped, then I can imagine them screaming and crying to come back to the warm embrace of China, the most perfect government in the world. 

But China would shun them just like the old man Dalai.

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## YoucanYouup

ravi kiran said:


> I am not trolling and I am seriously asking some questions. care to answer them???


 So the first thing you need to learn is how to use your brain
Logic thinking is not hard for us, and I believe every human beings borned equal
Go, body, use big data, not a lonely story

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## TaiShang

YoucanYouup said:


> So the first thing you need to learn is how to use your brain
> Logic thinking is not hard for us, and I believe every human beings borned equal
> Go, body, use big data, not a lonely story



*Ignore the Indian. *

Indian trolls take their turn and every week one of them shows up to troll the section and spread hate messages.

When Indians question about China's internal affairs, the only credible response is not to try to reason with them or try to explain them anything. But to question their own system, its dynamics and whatever is internal for India.

Eye for an eye.

*But, my friend, never get into discussion with them as to China's own affairs of which Indian opinion or understanding is our last concern.*

When they question HK, we can question one of the myriad armed separatist movements in India.

When they question China's governance, we can question their own filthy and world-known inefficient government.

They will soon disappear and throw another thread.

@Keel .

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## ravi kiran

YoucanYouup said:


> So the first thing you need to learn is how to use your brain
> Logic thinking is not hard for us, and I believe every human beings borned equal
> Go, body, use big data, not a lonely story


ok. thanks for generous reply.



TaiShang said:


> *Ignore the Indian. *
> 
> Indian trolls take their turn and every week one of them shows up to troll the section and spread hate messages.
> 
> When Indians question about China's internal affairs, the only credible response is not to try to reason with them or try to explain them anything. But to question their own system, its dynamics and whatever is internal for India.
> 
> Eye for an eye.
> 
> *But, my friend, never get into discussion with them as to China's own affairs of which Indian opinion or understanding is our last concern.*
> 
> When they question HK, we can question one of the myriad armed separatist movements in India.
> 
> When they question China's governance, we can question their own filthy and world-known inefficient government.
> 
> They will soon disappear and throw another thread.
> 
> @Keel .


why so hatred???


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## YoucanYouup

India's China War: Neville Maxwell: 9788181581464: Amazon.com: Books
Things can't create by god， they have roots， when what how why who where，etc
LIke 1962， we prepared for war, but Nehru's "forward policy" caused it,
And Indian government‘s propaganda show the different way, so I recommend this book written by an Australian，a bystander

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## Sam.

Hong kong belong to China and west shouldn't meddle in Chinese affairs.

Period.


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## YoucanYouup

ravi kiran said:


> ok. thanks for generous reply.
> 
> 
> why so hatred???


 
Some Indians made a bad impression
You choosed a rubbish news,maybe you didn't realize it's a rubbish
Learn the lesson!

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## TaiShang

I am for non interference and national unity -- for China, India and any other nation. The state is sacred because without a viable state we are defenseless. Hence I believe in the sacredness of national dynamics.

I do not wish any separatist trouble in India just as I do not wish that for China. Apparently, every nation has their own particular problems - some worse than others. Outside meddling will make them only much worse and in most cases people will suffer.

We can talk about foreign policy where my government's action might influence you -- and vice versa. Beyond that, whatever happens in Rome stays in Rome.

Let's respect each other's internal dynamics.

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## ravi kiran

YoucanYouup said:


> Some Indians made a bad impression
> You choosed a rubbish news,maybe you didn't realize it's a rubbish
> Learn the lesson!


honestly I also hate China for 1962. and trust me it is only reason.
may be its rubbish but i didnt make it. I just posted it.
by the way I also posted one more article please share your views there also.
The Hard-Working Culture(aspects of the world’s most convincing success story)



TaiShang said:


> I am for non interference and national unity -- for China, India and any other nation. The state is sacred because without a viable state we are defenseless. Hence I believe in the sacredness of national dynamics.
> 
> I do not wish any separatist trouble in India just as I do not wish that for China. Apparently, every nation has their own particular problems - some worse than others. Outside meddling will make them only much worse and in most cases people will suffer.
> 
> We can talk about foreign policy where my government's action might influence you -- and vice versa. Beyond that, whatever happens in Rome stays in Rome.
> 
> Let's respect each other's internal dynamics.


agree. but we can share our experiences of handling such movements.


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## Keel

ravi kiran said:


> why are you bringing India here???
> stay on topic.



Stay on topic

This bunch of people said "_I dread the idea of my children growing up in a society where the values of Hong Kong — such as the rule of law, freedom of press, speech and assembly — are being eroded." _ and taunting about lack of democracy and they want to emigrate.

There they should go, to the largest democracy in the world - shining India






Guizhou folk dance 贵州民族舞

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## YoucanYouup

ravi kiran said:


> honestly I also hate China for 1962. and trust me it is only reason.
> may be its rubbish but i didnt make it. I just posted it.
> by the way I also posted on more article please share your views there also.
> The Hard-Working Culture(aspects of the world’s most convincing success story)
> 
> 
> agree. but we can share our experiences of handling such movements.


We winned the war, but we didn't conquer any indian lands, we retreated, returned captures,and hope win can bring India back to conference table.
Chairman Mao said he wantt ed the war can keep 50-years peace, and this year is 53th year,I hope peace forever.

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## ravi kiran

Keel said:


> This bunch of people said "_I dread the idea of my children growing up in a society where the values of Hong Kong — such as the rule of law, freedom of press, speech and assembly — are being eroded." _ and taunting about lack of democracy and they want to emigrate.
> 
> There they should go, to the largest democracy in the world - shining India


please answer this.

HK is integral part of China. there is no dispute over this.
then why there is separate system for HK.
why China is not applying the same system of mainland to HK?????


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## YoucanYouup

Keel said:


> Stay on topic
> 
> This bunch of people said "_I dread the idea of my children growing up in a society where the values of Hong Kong — such as the rule of law, freedom of press, speech and assembly — are being eroded." _ and taunting about lack of democracy and they want to emigrate.
> 
> There they should go, to the largest democracy in the world - shining India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guizhou fold dance 贵州民族舞


 苗族是啥子哏……
看不懂啊大哥

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

The sellout white worshipers are giving up? Great news!

China is too soft on the sellouts in Hong Kong who reminisce of a time of freedom and democracy that never actually happened under the British. How can Chinese deal with such people?

I suggest giving up on them, removing their citizenship, healthcare and schooling rights. Why throw money after traitors and self hating scum?

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## ravi kiran

YoucanYouup said:


> We winned the war, but we didn't conquer any indian lands, we retreated, returned captures,and hope win can bring India back to conference table.
> Chairman Mao said he wantt ed the war can keep 50-years peace, and this year is 53th year,I hope peace forever.


tell me who you will believe?? your government or me??
I am doing same. I will believe my government no one else.
but i also want peaceful relation with China.


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## TaiShang

ravi kiran said:


> agree. but we can share our experiences of handling such movements.



Alright then.

1. Your OP is not an honest one. I can sift through the Western media and find similar anti-India bashing. Probably I would have had a slightly harder time than you did with respect to China. But, in the end, I would have. So, it is a wrong footing to start with -- this is from the perspective of many Chinese members here who are not at all interested in your thread. We have probably already taken our daily doze of China-hating Western media.

2. We cannot learn from each other. As I said, internal dynamics cannot be replicated. Hence, whatever solution there is, it is inside India (or inside China, if necessary). I think we cannot learn from you and you cannot learn from us.

Success cannot be learned because historical dynamics and contemporary conjecture are different. But failures, by simply not repeating them, can be "mastered." China cannot replicate a "Japanese miracle" but China can master Japan's lost decade and learn how not to repeat it.

3. You should not take Western media as a sort of holy book. They have their own agenda and you cannot expect them to make truthful news. They won't, especially if they feel their supremacy is being threatened. Maybe in the future, you will experience a similar fate. Everything is political and politicized. You can browse through the Chinese media (academic and popular) and get a fairly deep insight of whatever going on in HK.

China's official stance to the minority trouble making British dogs in HK as well as their overseas masters is formulated by the founder of our nation:

"All reactionaries are paper tigers. In appearance, the reactionaries are terrifying, but in reality, they are not so powerful. From a long-term point of view, it is not the reactionaries but the people who are powerful."

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

ravi kiran said:


> please answer this.
> 
> HK is integral part of China. there is no dispute over this.
> then why there is separate system for HK.
> why China is not applying the same system of mainland to HK?????



Because they can? Change can come slowly instead of quickly enforcing change on a financial hub that is already working well. 

Chinese government is much more flexible than most. Integrating Taiwan will also use such a system. The most important aspect is that Beijing calls the shots.

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## Keel

ravi kiran said:


> please answer this.
> 
> HK is integral part of China. there is no dispute over this.
> then why there is separate system for HK.
> why China is not applying the same system of mainland to HK?????



Because China is not democratic unlike shining and incredible India
So my answer to you and my strong recommendiation to the dissenting people of HK - just pack their bags and move to India please






上海歌舞团/东方青春舞蹈团
Shanghai Dance Theatre and Shanghai Oriental Dance Group

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## Yizhi

.......
yup we Shenzhen here has seen too many HKers 'giving up' on HK and moved to mainland instead...what an irony.
FYI my family now has a couple from HK as the new neighbor.

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## Genesis

I too have given up on HK. I thought they would eventually be Chinese, even if there are disagreements. Now it looks like they don't want to. That's fine. Leave and don't come back.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

TaiShang said:


> Alright then.
> 
> 1. Your OP is not an honest one. I can sift through the Western media and find similar anti-India bashing. Probably I would have had a slightly harder time than you did with respect to China. But, in the end, I would have. So, it is a wrong footing to start with -- this is from the perspective of many Chinese members here who are not at all interested in your thread. We have probably already taken our daily doze of China-hating Western media.
> 
> 2. We cannot learn from each other. As I said, internal dynamics cannot be replicated. Hence, whatever solution there is, it is inside India (or inside China, if necessary). I think we cannot learn from you and you cannot learn from us.
> 
> Success cannot be learned because historical dynamics and contemporary conjecture are different. But failures, by simply not repeating them, can be "mastered." China cannot replicate a "Japanese miracle" but China can master Japan's lost decade and learn how not to repeat it.
> 
> 3. You should not take Western media as a sort of holy book. They have their own agenda and you cannot expect them to make truthful news. They won't, especially if they feel their supremacy is being threatened. Maybe in the future, you will experience a similar fate. Everything is political and politicized. You can browse through the Chinese media (academic and popular) and get a fairly deep insight of whatever going on in HK.
> 
> China's official stance to the minority trouble making British dogs in HK as well as their overseas masters is formulated by the founder of our nation:
> 
> "*All reactionaries are paper tigers. In appearance, the reactionaries are terrifying, but in reality, they are not so powerful. From a long-term point of view, it is not the reactionaries but the people who are powerful."*


*
*
The like of Joshua Wong gives the Chinese people nightmares... Nightmares of having such a stupid, selfish and Hanjian child. He is also malnourished.

Teach your kids well or they end up like this trash.

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## TaiShang

Yizhi said:


> .......
> yup we Shenzhen here has seen too many HKers 'giving up' on HK and moved to mainland instead...what an irony.
> FYI my family now has a couple from HK as the new neighbor



Exactly, my friend.

HK is a province of China. It has a slightly different economic model but that was due to the conditions of the time: China had to have HK as it is because it was in the middle of an economic reform. HK, in a sense, served as a pilot city for China to a better system and better cities. Now, HK is neither a case study, nor a special case. It is an oridnary Chinese city.

The majority of the people of the city of HK is no different. They travel across their country and relocate as they seem fit. 

The British dogs seem to be making a big sound, this is only thanks to the Western media. They are making individual stories like they represent the entire city, or, when the story is nowhere to be found, they make up one.

The Western media is dishonest and despicable. And we are also acutely aware of the foreign trouble makers in HK (referred by many as Western pigs). These people are in the universities, print media, social media or simply English teachers.

Hence I am in favor of a gradual but non-stop reformation of HK:

1. Cancel the HK passports and give each a unified China passport.

2. Merge HK customs with that of China.

3. Kick out all Western media and NGOs from HK.

China is strong enough to tell the West to buzz off. But, for now, the leadership seem to be content with the way things are going on.



Genesis said:


> I too have given up on HK. I thought they would eventually be Chinese, even if there are disagreements. Now it looks like they don't want to. That's fine. Leave and don't come back.



HK stays in China. They are free to leave. Britain still has a vibrant dog-leash industry.



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> The like of Joshua Wong gives the Chinese people nightmares... Nightmares of having such a stupid, selfish and Hanjian child. He is also malnourished.
> 
> Teach your kids well or they end up like this trash.



Will serve well as a scare-crow. China has produced ovr 600 million metric tons of grain in 2014. This traitor can definitely be employed in one of those fields.

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## YoucanYouup

ravi kiran said:


> please answer this.
> 
> HK is integral part of China. there is no dispute over this.
> then why there is separate system for HK.
> why China is not applying the same system of mainland to HK?????


I guess I have already answered it
History is complex， like “why alaska is part of US even they didn't border”
British beat Qing dynasty， and force she signed a number of unequal treaties，and HK was leased for 99 years
After that, we sufferd WW!,WW2 ,and civil war. CCP winned, and People Republic of China was found in 1949
HK was ruled by British that time, and HK was a good external window
In 1982, Chinese government negotiations with UK to get our land back, at that time mainland China have through new democratic revolution,agrarian revolution , socialist transformation, Cultural Revolution ,Reform and Opening-up
Transformation HK is difficult, and that time China need western support, so Deng Xiaoping promise fifty years unchanged: capitalist system and way of life.
Recently mainland China push HK for a democracy reform, but some fundamentalist western-democracy-magic believer think it is not "democracy"




they are students, they don;t know how society works
Everyone has a horrible youth time, I forgive them
But, anyone who has provided material support to these naive boys&girls is arch-criminal
And, I leave you a question, who



ravi kiran said:


> tell me who you will believe?? your government or me??
> I am doing same. I will believe my government no one else.
> but i also want peaceful relation with China.


 Uh...
Have you ever heard about historical materialism ?
People would lie, Government would lie, but fact never lied.
Logical thinking is important... so read the book I recommended first
You have a long way to go....

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## Beast

Let's not get too work up over this nytimes propaganda BS of Hong Kong. Western report always like to exaggerate China issue.

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## ravi kiran

TaiShang said:


> 1. Your OP is not an honest one. I can sift through the Western media and find similar anti-India bashing. Probably I would have had a slightly harder time than you did with respect to China. But, in the end, I would have. So, it is a wrong footing to start with -- this is from the perspective of many Chinese members here who are not at all interested in your thread. We have probably already taken our daily doze of China-hating Western media.



first thing OP is not my opinion. I just found it and I posted it so I can see your opinion about it. 
they are hating you because they feel you are equal or better than them(my honest opinion). 



TaiShang said:


> 2. We cannot learn from each other. As I said, internal dynamics cannot be replicated. Hence, whatever solution there is, it is inside India (or inside China, if necessary). I think we cannot learn from you and you cannot learn from us.



I was very big china hater but some thing happened and I decided to see things with different perspective. 
i am looking forward for Asian co-operation. Imagine China space agency+Japan space agency+India space agency 
we can achieve more than western world.



TaiShang said:


> Success cannot be learned because historical dynamics and contemporary conjecture are different. But failures, by simply not repeating them, can be "mastered." China cannot replicate a "Japanese miracle" but China can master Japan's lost decade and learn how not to repeat them.



agree.



TaiShang said:


> 3. You should not take Western media as a sort of holy book. They have their own agenda and you cannot expect them to make truthful news. They won't, especially if they feel their supremacy is being threatened. Maybe in the future, you will experience a similar fate. Everything is political and politicized. You can browse through the Chinese media (academic and popular) and get a fairly deep insight of whatever going on in HK.



fair enough. I will see things with neutral mindset. 



TaiShang said:


> China's official stance to the minority trouble making British dogs in HK as well as their overseas masters is formulated by the founder of our nation:
> 
> "All reactionaries are paper tigers. In appearance, the reactionaries are terrifying, but in reality, they are not so powerful. From a long-term point of view, it is not the reactionaries but the people who are powerful."



we should support each other on various Issues. I want to see day when China stands with India and India stands with China. 

by the way I also posted one more article please share your views there also.
The Hard-Working Culture(aspects of the world’s most convincing success story)

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## YoucanYouup

TaiShang said:


> Exactly, my friend.
> 
> HK is a province of China. It has a slightly different economic model but that was due to the conditions of the time: China had to have HK as it is because it was in the middle of an economic reform. HK, in a sense, served as a pilot city for China to a better system and better cities. Now, HK is neither a case study, nor a special case. It is an oridnary Chinese city.
> 
> The majority of the people of the city of HK is no different. They travel across their country and relocate as they seem fit.
> 
> The British dogs seem to be making a big sound, this is only thanks to the Western media. They are making individual stories like they represent the entire city, or, when the story is nowhere to be found, they make up one.
> 
> The Western media is dishonest and despicable. And we are also acutely aware of the foreign trouble makers in HK (referred by many as Western pigs). These people are in the universities, print media, social media or simply English teachers.
> 
> Hence I am in favor of a gradual but non-stop reformation of HK:
> 
> 1. Cancel the HK passports and give each a unified China passport.
> 
> 2. Merge HK customs with that of China.
> 
> 3. Kick out all Western media and NGOs from HK.
> 
> China is strong enough to tell the West to buzz off. But, for now, the leadership seem to be content with the way things are going on.
> 
> 
> 
> HK stays in China. They are free to leave. Britain still has a vibrant dog-leash industry.
> 
> 
> 
> Will serve well as a scare-crow. China has produced ovr 600 million metric tons of grain in 2014. This traitor can definitely be employed in one of those fields.







Remember th one on pic who got slapped was a viet?
He tasted Chinese anger

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## FairAndUnbiased

Nan Yang said:


> Economically, Hong Kong is doing every well. Which government in the world would returned tax money to it's people because of a budget surplus? Doesn't make logical sense to leave Hong Kong. Many Malaysian Chinese would be more than happy to move there.



One of my high school classmates was Malaysian Chinese, born in Seremban. There was nothing distinguishing him from us, not even accent. He doesn't have that Hong Kong/Taiwanese accent, his Mandarin is just like any southerner, he doesn't dress like the Hong Kong/Taiwanese style, he just acts normal. If Malaysian Chinese want to come back and Hong Kongers want to leave, whose to say thats not a good thing?






This looks like migrant workers playing Mahjong in any 1990's southern Chinese city. This scene is literally in several movies about that era.

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## YoucanYouup

ravi kiran said:


> first thing OP is not my opinion. I just found it and I posted it so I can see your opinion about it.


 
I will not quote religious books, because I don;t believe it
Your post is an atiitude


ravi kiran said:


> we should support each other on various Issues. I want to see day when China stands with India and India stands with China.


We hope India can become our true friend one day and reconciliation between our true friend India and Pakistan
Ball is under Indian's foot, but India has not act like a true friend yet
Time will see...



FairAndUnbiased said:


> One of my high school classmates was Malaysian Chinese, born in Seremban. There was nothing distinguishing him from us, not even accent. He doesn't have that Hong Kong/Taiwanese accent, his Mandarin is just like any southerner, he doesn't dress like the Hong Kong/Taiwanese style, he just acts normal. If Malaysian Chinese want to come back and Hong Kongers want to leave, whose to say thats not a good thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This looks like migrant workers playing Mahjong in any 1990's southern Chinese city. This scene is literally in several movies about that era.


 You know, we created a words to describe it--"屌丝心态"(Dick hair mentality)
They think like loser

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## ravi kiran

Keel said:


> Because China is not democratic unlike shining and incredible India
> So my answer to you and my strong recommendiation to the dissenting people of HK - just pack their bags and move to India please



I respect your opinion.



YoucanYouup said:


> Uh...
> Have you ever heard about historical materialism ?
> People would lie, Government would lie, but fact never lied.
> Logical thinking is important... so read the book I recommended first
> You have a long way to go....


my friend nationalism is double edged sword. people will not accept anti-nation facts so easily. 
you are right its very long way to go.



YoucanYouup said:


> We hope India can become our true friend one day and reconciliation between our true friend India and Pakistan
> Ball is under Indian's foot, but India has not act like a true friend yet
> Time will see..



I really hope time will come when we will be true friends.

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## Sasquatch

Hong Kong is already being overtaken by Shanghai, Shenzhen and other cities, this is eventually lead to a decline of the city overall good riddance.

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## FairAndUnbiased

YoucanYouup said:


> I will not quote religious books, because I don;t believe it
> Your post is an atiitude
> 
> We hope India can become our true friend one day and reconciliation between our true friend India and Pakistan
> Ball is under Indian's foot, but India has not act like a true friend yet
> Time will see...
> 
> 
> You know, we created a words to describe it--"屌丝心态"(Dick hair mentality)
> They think like loser



本来就是屌丝，唯一的区别是香港的屌丝比其他地方的更自以为是

屌丝不只是一种人，而是一种态度


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## gau8av

no @Chinese-Dragon post yet ?


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## Chinese-Dragon

gau8av said:


> no @Chinese-Dragon post yet ?



I don't like "地方主義" (regionalism) since that is hurts China's interests.

So I stay out of these threads.

What China needs is unity, not regionalism.

Being a patriot means being loyal to your country. And HK is not a country, it never was. HK is a city, and the country is China.

My loyalty is always to China first.

Any Hong Kongers who don't like their country (China) can piss off, and jump in the sea for all I care. Let them get rid of their Chinese citizenship and find another one.

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## kaku1

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I don't like "地方主義" (regionalism) since that is hurts China's interests.
> 
> So I stay out of these threads.
> 
> What China needs is unity, not regionalism.
> 
> Being a patriot means being loyal to your country. And HK is not a country, it never was. HK is a city, and the country is China.
> 
> My loyalty is always to China first.
> 
> Any Hong Kongers who don't like their country (China) can piss off, and jump in the sea for all I care. Let them get rid of their Chinese citizenship and find another one.



Next target Macau?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Yizhi said:


> .......
> yup we Shenzhen here has seen too many HKers 'giving up' on HK and moved to mainland instead...what an irony.
> FYI my family now has a couple from HK as the new neighbor.



I've always wanted to move to Shanghai or Suzhou myself. 

Hong Kong is nice but the weather is way too hot and humid during the summer months.

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## ravi kiran

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I don't like "地方主義" (regionalism) since that is hurts China's interests.
> 
> So I stay out of these threads.
> 
> What China needs is unity, not regionalism.
> 
> Being a patriot means being loyal to your country. And HK is not a country, it never was. HK is a city, and the country is China.
> 
> My loyalty is always to China first.
> 
> Any Hong Kongers who don't like their country (China) can piss off, and jump in the sea for all I care. Let them get rid of their Chinese citizenship and find another one.


I respect you and your opinion. 
I really do.

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## Jlaw

Keel said:


> India is the perfect place for these people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wax printing art by ethnic Miao people
> 苗族蜡印


Good point. India has hot climate that most Hong kongers like and plus they are the world's biggest democracy.



ravi kiran said:


> honestly I also hate China for 1962. and trust me it is only reason.
> may be its rubbish but i didnt make it. I just posted it.
> by the way I also posted one more article please share your views there also.
> The Hard-Working Culture(aspects of the world’s most convincing success story)
> 
> 
> agree. but we can share our experiences of handling such movements.


Nehru actually did the right thing in 62. It's just that you guys lost because heaven is on our side.



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> The sellout white worshipers are giving up? Great news!
> 
> China is too soft on the sellouts in Hong Kong who reminisce of a time of freedom and democracy that never actually happened under the British. How can Chinese deal with such people?
> 
> I suggest giving up on them, removing their citizenship, healthcare and schooling rights. Why throw money after traitors and self hating scum?


Send them to an all inclusive trip to beautiful india.

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## rott

This article can be summed up in three words - "waste of time".

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## Yizhi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I've always wanted to move to Shanghai or Suzhou myself.
> 
> Hong Kong is nice but the weather is way too hot and humid during the summer months.


we have the same weather...but i can always go back to Northeast if i really crave cold air & snow.

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## jhungary

I gave up Hong Kong a long time ago already and yet you don't see me write this kind of thing.

For me, this article is BullShite, you can't change the fact, then you leave, that's very natural, but why bother writing this kind of stuff? I mean, what good does it do to the overall situation??

These kind of Article, and the stupid occupy movement is the same, while you know damn well, nothing is going to change, then why do you do it anyway? I mean, I get it, you can go occupy anything if that does not bother anything, but in the end, you know for a fact nothing is going to change, and yet you go occupy the street and it will not be Chinese Government whom suffer, in fact they will just be watch on point and laugh. That's the other people in Hong Kong would have suffer.

For the sake of other people these kind of action and article should stop


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## Raphael

HSBC, Standard Chartered mulling move to Asia? | Asia Times

It’s the not the first time that HSBC, Europe’s largest bank, has mulled moving it’s headquarters out of London because of what it calls an onerous British tax and regulatory environment. Nor is it the first time the idea of relocating HSBC’s HQ to Asia has been broached. But Douglas Flint, the global bank’s chairman, is renewing the speculation all over again. Another big British bank, Standard Chartered, may be considering a similar move.

“We are beginning to see the final shape of regulation, the final shape of structural reform and as soon as that mist lifts sufficiently we will once again start to look at where the best place for HSBC is,” Flint reportedly said at an informal shareholder meeting in Hong Kong on Monday. Hong Kong is mentioned as a possibility.

HSBC moved its domicile from Hong Kong to London in 1993.

Reuters quoted sources “familiar with the matter” as saying that both “HSBC and Standard Chartered, which is also based in London but makes most of its profits in Asia, are looking at the feasibility of quitting London for a new home in Asia because a big jump in the special tax levied on UK banks makes staying in Britain increasingly painful.”

Several investors reportedly said they want the two banking institutions to do a careful analysis on moving their domiciles out of Britain.

Bloomberg reported Monday that HSBC is facing pressure to leave Britain after the government upped taxes on the bank’s balance sheets for an eighth time this year. HSBC is said to be the local banking institution worst hit by the levy. It reportedly paid 750 million pounds ($1.1 billion) last year. Britain’s Labour and Conservative parties both say they would impose a harsher tax regime on banks as part of their platforms for upcoming national elections.


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## AndrewJin

Merchants have no nationality.

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## Al Bhatti

April 7, 2015





Mohsin Ali Nathani has resigned as UAE CEO of Standard Chartered.

*UAE chief becomes latest departure at Standard Chartered*

The troubled lender Standard Chartered lost another member of its senior management team with the departure of Mohsin Nathani, the chief executive of its UAE operations, who has resigned to take a career break and spend more time with his family, the London-based bank said in a statement.

Mr Nathani will stay in his post for six more months to ensure a “smooth transition”. His career at StanChart began in 2010 when he was appointed chief executive for Pakistan before he came to the UAE in February last year.

His departure follows those of the chairman John Peace, chief executive Peter Sands, Asia head Jaspal Bindra and Viswanathan Shankar, head of Europe, Middle East, Africa and Americas.

Last month, Afaq Khan, the chief executive of the its Islamic banking division, Saadiq, also decided to leave to take a career break and Hassan Jarrar, StanChart’s Bahrain head will also leave later this year, it emerged this week.

The bank’s global net profits fell almost 40 per cent last year as it faced a “perfect storm” of weakness in emerging markets, falling commodity prices and regulatory challenges, Mr Sands said last month.

Operating profit for its businesses in the Middle East, North Africa and Pakistan was also down, falling 10 per cent to US$769 million in 2014 from $858m in 2013.

In January, StanChart said it expected to cut 2,000 jobs across its global retail operations this year after having already cut 2,000 jobs in the final quarter of last year.

More than 90 per cent of the bank’s business comes from emerging markets. Growth in these commodity-rich parts of the world has slowed in the past couple of years as the price of everything from oil, steel and palm oil collapses amid low inflation, currencies weakening against the strengthening US dollar, and widening deficits. Loans to businesses that are sensitive to the fluctuation of commodity prices have also not helped.

Not only is StanChart’s core business of giving out loans suffering, the bank has also been battling regulatory woes.

In August, it was fined $300m by the New York department of financial services for suspicious transactions involving clients in Hong Kong and the Middle East.

As a result, StanChart announced in August it would close the majority of its SME accounts in this country, prompted by higher compliance burdens and a squeeze on profitability because of intensifying competition with local banks.

However, the UAE, which is one of the bank’s top five markets in terms of revenues and operating profits, had been regarded as a bright spot in the region.

In February, Mr Nathani told The National that a slowdown in Dubai’s property market represented opportunities for its mortgage business as homes became more affordable for end users.

UAE chief becomes latest departure at Standard Chartered | The National


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## Keel

Both banks already have a significant presence in Asia so it wont affect much apart from face values 
Asia contributes a lot to their business portfolios
So UK may have 2 business institutions off the top 500 list as a result of losing the no of major domiciles of top companies and tax revenue therefrom





Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

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## Shotgunner51

AndrewJin said:


> Merchants have no nationality.



LOL ... that's very true.

I suppose Li Ka Shing is still the single largest individual shareholder of HSBC, and a prince from ME is the single largest individual shareholder of Standard Chartered. Anyway both banks are publicly listed and very diversified in their shareholding structure.

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## apiSubmarine

Do you think Hong Kong should set up their own military, navy, and airforce as same as Singapore. 
I know the size of hong kong is double singapore. Hong kong has their own law, legislation and Justice.
money, flag. etc.. . So, Should Hong Kong set up their own Army, Airforce and navy to act like Singapore.


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## jkroo

Frankly, it's a most stupidest ever question I have seen regarding China.

The world do exist morons live in their delusions.

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## apiSubmarine

hong kong has it's right to monitor their people. china taking their money away.


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## nForce

They will Chinese or Russian or American stuff ?

It will be awesome if they start developing their own ICBMs and nukes too!!

Ohh..wait..since it's a small island, they need loads of U-boats too..


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## jkroo

Illiterate morons show their IQ again, haha.

You should learn something from Japanese.

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## Tom99

apiSubmarine said:


> Do you think Hong Kong should set up their own military, navy, and airforce as same as Singapore.
> I know the size of hong kong is double singapore. Hong kong has their own law, legislation and Justice.
> money, flag. etc.. . So, Should Hong Kong set up their own Army, Airforce and navy to act like Singapore.



Yes, HK should definitely set up their own arm forces with the help of Vietnam. Vietnam can sell them the most high tech weaponry in the world and superb trainings. Then HK can help Vietnam attack and take over China's islands on SCS. Few years after that, HK will join Vietnam and become the capital of New Vietnam. And after few more years, ApiSubmarine will become the president and/or PM of this New Vietnam. Then finally after few more years, ApiSubmarine will personally will lead the armies of New Vietnam to liberate the chinese people in China. lol

Thats what you want to hear, right? 

yeah, Of course.

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## apiSubmarine

Guangdong, Guangxi are origenally belongs to vietnam .

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## Bussard Ramjet

apiSubmarine said:


> hong kong has it's right to monitor their people. china taking their money away.



Ummm.. actually all the money in Hong Kong is Chinese.



apiSubmarine said:


> Guangdong, Guangxi are origenally belongs to vietnam .



No Vietnam originally belongs to China. Nan Yue was a Chinese kingdom.

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## UKBengali

Someone should remind the OP that Hong Kong is part of the PRC and not separate state like Singapore.

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## apiSubmarine

that is how Singapore get indepence. Kings Kong can monitor HK itself pretly good


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## Bussard Ramjet

apiSubmarine said:


> that is how Singapore get indepence. Kings Kong can monitor HK itself pretly good



China is not Malaysia. And China has honor unlike Malaysia. 

Malaysia essentially threw out Singapore against its wishes because Lee Kuan Yew objected to the racially charged policies of Malays. So, Malaysia itself threw out Singapore, because it had no honor, it was racially charged, and they left out Singapore out to suffer.

Not only this, Singapore's GDP today is almost as big as Malaysia. And, Singapore is not reliant on Malaysia. To top that, while Singapore was a racially neutral state, it was nevertheless originally almost a Chinese state.

Hong Kong has been stolen from China. It is so reliant on China that just cutting the financial market of Hong kong from Mainland access will bring it down.

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## Providence

UKBengali said:


> Someone should remind the OP that Hong Kong is part of the PRC and not separate state like Singapore.



Hong Kong's economy is fundamentally different from China. See economic reports, HK is always mentioned separately. They should have a separate marine force !


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## dlclong

Providence said:


> Hong Kong's economy is fundamentally different from China. See economic reports, HK is always mentioned separately. They should have a separate marine force !


Do you know whats "one country two systems" , idiot
develop military power, with your mouth?

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## Kylin

Sure, in your wet dreams. Vietnam will break into two before Hong Kong has the chance or even want to do such thing.

Sometimes it is really people like you giving Viet a bad name, for being outrageously stupid on so many levels.

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## dlclong

Vietnam troll，Your IQ is more higher than monkey

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## Bussard Ramjet

Providence said:


> Hong Kong's economy is fundamentally different from China. See economic reports, HK is always mentioned separately. They should have a separate marine force !



The economy is not fundamentally different. But yes, it is counted separately, due to the "one country two systems" rule. 

Also, they do have a marine force. Heck a whole army. It is called the People's Liberation Army.



dlclong said:


> Do you know whats "one country two systems" , idiot
> develop military power, with your mouth?



I agree, he is an idiot. A lousy one indeed.


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## 70U63

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Malaysia essentially threw out Singapore against its wishes because Lee Kuan Yew objected to the racially charged policies of Malays. So, Malaysia itself threw out Singapore, because it had no honor, it was racially charged, and they left out Singapore out to suffer.


Malaysia's Malay want to retain their control to the country.
Singapore prior to the independent want everyone to be equal.
There is no way Malay want to loss the control. Therefore it was better for Singapore to leave, their achievement (focus on positive) is a lot better compare to other countries in the region. While their ex-countrymen (like us in Malaysia) still struggle and some issues haven't been solved since independent.


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## Bussard Ramjet

70U63 said:


> Malaysia's Malay want to retain their control to the country.
> Singapore prior to the independent want everyone to be equal.
> There is no way Malay want to loss the control. Therefore it was better for Singapore to leave, their achievement (focus on positive) is a lot better compare to other countries in the region. While their ex-countrymen (like us in Malaysia) still struggle and some issues haven't been solved since independent.



Absolutely. Why don't you go back to China? With your falling proportion in population, challenges will only grow.

Frankly, when I was reading about the whole Bumiputra policy and shit, I was literally utterly shocked.

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## Kyle Sun

look,we get one talent monkey here!

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## Economic superpower

Flame bait troll thread opened by a troll.

@WebMaster @Horus @Hu Songshan

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## 70U63

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Absolutely. Why don't you go back to China? With your falling proportion in population, challenges will only grow.
> 
> Frankly, when I was reading about the whole Bumiputra policy and shit, I was literally utterly shocked.



Because i was born in Malaysia, just like my parent with Malaysia citizenship.
Currently hold Australia permanent residency. Unless shxt happen (race riot like what happened in 196X, or war like what Japanese did during WW2), there's no way i going to abandon my country.


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## jhungary

Looking at a bunch of people don't know anything about Hong Kong Talk about Hong Kong is actually quite fun.

Hong Kong is part of China, that's why I left Hong Kong in the first place, but I have my reservation about How Hong Kong and Chinese are the same.

To be frank, I lived in Hong Kong from 1980s to 2000 nobody in Hong Kong care whether or not they are counted as Chinese, they do not have any sort of National Identity. The major problem is what Chinese Government and Chinese sees the people in Hong Kong.

More often or not, Mainlander think Hong Kong people were not Chinese enough, and Chinese Government did not really consider Hong Kong people as part of Mainland Chinese. You need a ID Card and Return Home Card for a Hong Kong Resident to go to China and Mainland Chinese are not allowed to go to Hong Kong unless a sort of "Visa" was granted to them.

And yes, Hong Kong have a different financial system than Mainland China. Hong Kong Financial System is pegged to the US system with US Dollar exchanged with a fixed rate with HKD and the Accountancy is based on a British System. While the Chinese have a different system regarding accounts, trade and stock market.

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## 70U63

Come on, even mainlander think HK people are not Chinese _enough_, HK people are still Chinese people.
Imagine what will happen if they don't put restriction on the border.

It is the best for HK to have good relationship with the Mainland. With all the current social issue in HK, you can blame the HK administrator to fail to safeguard the interest of HK people. No wonder some poor HK people have to live in a bird cage.



jhungary said:


> More often or not, Mainlander think Hong Kong people were not Chinese enough, and Chinese Government did not really consider Hong Kong people as part of Mainland Chinese. You need a ID Card and Return Home Card for a Hong Kong Resident to go to China and Mainland Chinese are not allowed to go to Hong Kong unless a sort of "Visa" was granted to them.

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## Chinese-Dragon

70U63 said:


> Come on, even mainlander think HK people are not Chinese _enough_, HK people are still Chinese people.
> Imagine what will happen if they don't put restriction on the border.



I have met a lot of Mainlanders in my life, and they are my brothers. Not just Cantonese speakers from Guangdong but Mainlanders from any part of China.

The deal is we got to have full autonomy, except for foreign relations and defence. The National Government in Beijing takes care of those.

And it is good for us. We don't have to allocate our budget towards defence, yet we still have the benefit of the 2nd largest defence spending in the world. It's a win-win.

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## Nike

Well, the quality of Vietnamese member in this forum is seem degrading by each passing days......


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## luoshan

HK is not an independent so sovereign country..


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## jhungary

70U63 said:


> Come on, even mainlander think HK people are not Chinese _enough_, HK people are still Chinese people.
> Imagine what will happen if they don't put restriction on the border.
> 
> It is the best for HK to have good relationship with the Mainland. With all the current social issue in HK, you can blame the HK administrator to fail to safeguard the interest of HK people. No wonder some poor HK people have to live in a bird cage.



meh, honestly, I don't really care about it....

Hong Kong to me now is merely a place I went to escape Summer in Australia when I have ran out of money, and if you asked me, I think people on both side play the blaming game.


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## Bussard Ramjet

jhungary said:


> meh, honestly, I don't really care about it....
> 
> Hong Kong to me now is merely a place I went to escape Summer in Australia when I have ran out of money, and if you asked me, I think people on both side play the blaming game.



So were you born in Hong Kong?


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## jhungary

Bussard Ramjet said:


> So were you born in Hong Kong?



No, I was born in India, just like you lol


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## Bussard Ramjet

jhungary said:


> No, I was born in India, just like you lol



Kidhar?

Kaun si basti, gaon main? Bharat bohut bada hai akhirkaar. 

Yaa ye sirf randomaap hai.


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## jhungary

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Kidhar?
> 
> Kaun si basti, gaon main? Bharat bohut bada hai akhirkaar.
> 
> Yaa ye sirf randomaap hai.



Don't ask me which City or Town of India I am from, if you cannot get my sarcasm.

And the indian friend I have next to me says your 'Hindu" sound forced, maybe you need to study up

Or you want to talk to him directly? Then I will hand over my keyboard to him


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## LacViet

Bussard Ramjet said:


> No Vietnam originally belongs to China. Nan Yue was a Chinese kingdom.



originally China is in northern Asia.


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## cnleio

Yes, they have one. *People's Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison











*

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## Chinese-Dragon

cnleio said:


> Yes, they have one. *People's Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison
> 
> View attachment 222863
> View attachment 222865
> View attachment 222866
> *



Exactly. 

Israel and Singapore have very good armed forces compared to their size, but it's nothing compared to what HK has, we have the PLA.

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## Bussard Ramjet

jhungary said:


> Don't ask me which City or Town of India I am from, if you cannot get my sarcasm.
> 
> And the indian friend I have next to me says your 'Hindu" sound forced, maybe you need to study up
> 
> Or you want to talk to him directly? Then I will hand over my keyboard to him



Absolutely. I would want to talk to him. And yes I really didn't use vernacular hindi. So it was forced.



LacViet said:


> originally China is in northern Asia.



What do you mean by "original"?


----------



## powastick

*Hong Kong student activist Joshua Wong denied entry to Malaysia*




PETALING JAYA: Hong Kong student activist Joshua Wong *(pic)* was barred from entering Malaysia at Penang Airport on Tuesday.

The 18-year-old student leader is said to have been scheduled to speak at forums in Penang, Ipoh, Johor and Petaling Jaya on June 3, the eve of the 26th anniversary of Tiananmen Square Massacre.

"Malaysia... explain why he is sent back to Hong Kong? Afraid of more street protests," tweeted Bersih 2.0 chairman Maria Chin Abdullah.

"Our government must grow up, don't be small minded - Joshua Wong is a pro democracy activist. Is that a crime to bar him from entering Malaysia," questioned civil liberties lawyer Eric Paulsen on Twitter.

"Joshua Wong, 18, too dangerous to step foot in Malaysia? Strange and embarrassing," tweeted human rights lawyer Michelle Yesudas.

Wong has become the face of Hong Kong’s pro-democracy student protest movement, leading students in a massive protest in 2014.

He was later charged on November last year with obstructing a bailiff clearing one of Hong Kong's three protest areas.

He was banned from a large part of Mong Kok, an area in the Yau Tsim Mong District in Hong Kong.

In December 2014, he and two other students began a hunger strike and demanded the Hong Kong government to restarts dialogues on electoral reform.

Four days into the strike, he decided to end it due to ‘strong urging from the doctor’.

Wong was arrested once again in January for questioning over his involvement in civil-disobedience offences over the pro-democracy demonstrations.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Raphael said:


> Very reasonable. As I understand it, Malaysia has very strict animal quarantine laws. They don't want a biohazard crisis on their hands caused by a totally avoidable case of a dog with rabies.



So sad that this rabid dog Joshua Wong lives in my own city HK.

That's why I've always wanted to have the Mainland system/laws in HK, so we can clear out the human waste like Joshua Wong much easier. The HK government is too freaking soft.

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## 70U63

Bersih 2.0 seriously need to lift their game and play smart. 
Don't import this type of people to inspire us (he is not good example), and please don't let any political party (including the opposition) to hijack the event. Dxmn~



powastick said:


> "Malaysia... explain why he is sent back to Hong Kong? Afraid of more street protests," tweeted Bersih 2.0 chairman Maria Chin Abdullah.
> 
> "Our government must grow up, don't be small minded - Joshua Wong is a pro democracy activist. Is that a crime to bar him from entering Malaysia," questioned civil liberties lawyer Eric Paulsen on Twitter.
> 
> "Joshua Wong, 18, too dangerous to step foot in Malaysia? Strange and embarrassing," tweeted human rights lawyer Michelle Yesudas.

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## powastick

70U63 said:


> Bersih 2.0 seriously need to lift their game and play smart.
> Don't import this type of people to inspire us (he is not good example), and please don't let any political party (including the opposition) to hijack the event. Dxmn~


Stay away from Bersih. Both Joshua Wong (Umbrella movement) and Ambiga (Bersih) are both funded by NED.(National Endowment for Democracy). The National Endowment for Democracy is a CIA-operated U.S. non-profit soft power organization that was founded in 1983 to promote democracy abroad.

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## Jlaw

Any countries democratic or not can deny any non citizens entry without any explanation. This made the news because JWong is a hybrid green Alien mix.

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## AndrewJin

70U63 said:


> Bersih 2.0 seriously need to lift their game and play smart.
> Don't import this type of people to inspire us (he is not good example), and please don't let any political party (including the opposition) to hijack the event. Dxmn~


Pls, pls take him!



powastick said:


> Stay away from Bersih. Both Joshua Wong (Umbrella movement) and Ambiga (Bersih) are both funded by NED.(National Endowment for Democracy). The National Endowment for Democracy is a CIA-operated U.S. non-profit soft power organization that was founded in 1983 to promote democracy abroad.


Give him PR or citizenship pls!

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## Genesis

Chinese-Dragon said:


> So sad that this rabid dog Joshua Wong lives in my own city HK.
> 
> That's why I've always wanted to have the Mainland system/laws in HK, so we can clear out the human waste like Joshua Wong much easier. The HK government is too freaking soft.


Why? lol he's hilarious, I didn't hear about the hunger strike? lol 4 days?

Besides, I thought the point of the hunger strike was death or compromise, neither happened, that makes him poor not an activist. lol

Can't get that kind of comedy anywhere else.

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## pher

mike2000 is back said:


> WTF ??? You are actually justifying your degrading /disgraceful point?? Wow. ....and to even think @AndrewJin liked your post, guess me thinking he was a sensible member(he was in the beginning) on here, i was being naive. PDF indeed changes people for the worse. Lol
> 
> As for your point about you people being more 'handsome 'than the 'ugly ' Vietnamese, I won't even waste my time on that, since it's just too foolish a statement to be debating on. Good to know that Joshua Wong is a Chinese beauty though. Lool


wow, be careful, don't put word into my mouth. I never use the word ugly as you claimed. if you interpret in that way, that is your problem.

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## powastick

AndrewJin said:


> Pls, pls take him!
> 
> 
> Give him PR or citizenship pls!


It was two Malay leftist who invited him. I hope no dumb chinese here go support him.


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## Azizam

He looks like he's 12. How can be be so dangerous?


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## powastick

Azizam said:


> He looks like he's 12. How can be be so dangerous?


To protect him from us.

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## TaiShang

Malaysia, you just have given a shot to the ego of the man. LOL.

The guy must have been squeezed tightly in the had right after he was popped out into this world. 

It is not about the physical look. It is the emptiness and dullness. 

But seriously, Malaysia did the right thing. HK must allow him to buy a ticket, go to Hyde Park and never return.

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## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Malaysia, you just have given a shot to the ego of the man. LOL.
> 
> The guy must have been squeezed tightly in the had right after he was popped out into this world.
> 
> It is not about the physical look. It is the emptiness and dullness.
> 
> But seriously, Malaysia did the right thing. HK must allow him to buy a ticket, go to Hyde Park and never return.



I remember one of the hilarious moments from that kid, he said: we know we are Chinese but don't want to be called Chinese but rather HKer.  Now that's an "intelligent food for thought"

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## Azizam

terranMarine said:


> I remember one of the hilarious moments from that kid, he said: we know we are Chinese but don't want to be called Chinese but rather HKer.  Now that's an "intelligent food for thought"


Is it true that he quit his hunger strike after 3 days? Even arresting this clown is a waste of time, Can't believe people follow him.

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## terranMarine

Azizam said:


> Is it true that he quit his hunger strike after 3 days? Even arresting this clown is a waste of time, Can't believe people follow him.


Hunger strike? Did you know what he did? Those people took turns to "starve", put on a show they wouldn't eat for a day and the next day another fellow would take his place while he went home for replenishment

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## Hamartia Antidote

Hong Kong Regulators Are Investigating Li Hejun's Hanergy Thin Film Power Group - Forbes


Hanergy Thin Film Power Group has finally got an investigation from Hong Kong’s Securities & Futures Commission, as the sudden crash of the company’s stocks preceded by several months of inexplicable rise raises questions about the firm.

Hong Kong regulators said in a short statement on its website that a formal investigation into Hanergy Thin Film is “in progress and is continuing.” The statement also comes after Li Hejun, chairman of the solar company, told the official Xinhua News Agency that a probe into the company was “purely rumor” and it was “absolutely impossible” that he didn’t know about the investigation.


Shares of Hanergy were halted Wednesday last week after plunging 47%. *Their stunning rise over the past few months has made Li China’s second- richest man, after real estate tycoon Wang Jianlin*.

Caixin, an influential economic journal, reported that Haitong Securities led the selloff, after learning Hanergy failed to repay its debt. Li himself was absent from the company’s annual meeting that day. The firm has said that he was at the opening ceremony of a clean energy exhibition.

*In a move further raising doubt about what happened to Hanergy, Li increased his short position in the firm by 796 million shares- just five days before the massive tumble*, CNNMoney reported.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The stock price suddenly gets pumped up and the chairman shorts it!

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## Aepsilons

Excellent !!


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## Keel

During the “hunger strike” which lasted symbolically for a few days, the bunch of low-lives were seen with a bag of snacks inside JW‘s tent and they were not running out of nutritious supplements in front of the cameras

JW - the scumbag declared his hunger strike was not limited by a deadline at the outset

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## TaiShang

Keel said:


> During the “hunger strike” which lasted symbolically for a few days, the bunch of low-lives were seen with a bag of snacks inside JW‘s tent and they were not running out of nutritious supplements in front of the cameras
> 
> JW - the scumbag declared his hunger strike was not limited by a deadline at the outset



I wish he kept his words.

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## terranMarine

Those prominent deluded youngsters are already persona non grata in Mainland, Macau and now Malaysia. China has kept its promise of 50 years unchange, 2047 would be an interesting year

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Those prominent deluded youngsters are already persona non grata in Mainland, Macau and now Malaysia. China has kept its promise of 50 years unchange, 2047 would be an interesting year



2047. How old will this JW dude be when China makes HK just an ordinary Chinese city?


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## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> 2047. How old will this JW dude be when China makes HK just an ordinary Chinese city?


The kid is gonna be 19 this year , so he should be 51 in 2047. Deprived from entering Mainland and Macau, they are only limited to HK. Is he trying to become an activist for the rest of his life?

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> The kid is gonna be 19 this year , so he should be 51 in 2047. Deprived from entering Mainland and Macau, they are only limited to HK. Is he trying to become an activist for the rest of his life?



Still young but nonetheless old enough to have a heart-attack at the scene of HK's stripping off its privileged status. His sobs will likely echo across the Westminster.


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## Steve781

Was there something wong with him?


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## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Still young but nonetheless old enough to have a heart-attack at the scene of HK's stripping off its privileged status. His sobs will likely echo across the Westminster.


If the younger or future generations want to follow his footstep, boy are they in for a surprise. Even Lee Kuan Yew redirected a question from his interviewer: "Let me put it this way, do you really think China would leave HK the way as it is today?"


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## 70U63

_

Hong Kong lawmaker and democracy activist Leung Kwok-hung was denied entry to Malaysia on Friday, the second time this week the country has stopped a Hong Kong democracy activist from entering._
http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/05/29/malaysia-hongkong-democracy-activist-idINKBN0OE0PO20150529
Malaysia bars second Hong Kong democracy activist| Reuters

Remembering Tiananmen Massacre | Facebook

There's also a young SG girl want to give speech, wtf~

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## Keel

70U63 said:


> _
> 
> Hong Kong lawmaker and democracy activist Leung Kwok-hung was denied entry to Malaysia on Friday, the second time this week the country has stopped a Hong Kong democracy activist from entering._
> Malaysia bars second Hong Kong democracy activist| Reuters
> 
> Remembering Tiananmen Massacre | Facebook
> 
> There's also a young SG girl want to give speech, wtf~



These losers should consider changing their next stage of rallying to Singapore, India, Vietnam, Japan
and see what is going to happen. Let's see if @Lux de Veritas or other Viets, Indians or Japanese will do the liason and sponsorship for them

I'll have my beer and egg-rolls ready








terranMarine said:


> The kid is gonna be 19 this year , so he should be 51 in 2047. Deprived from entering Mainland and Macau, they are only limited to HK. Is he trying to become an activist for the rest of his life?



He (they) will have a chance to gain permanent landing on USA but they'll find their value to the CIA vaporises substantially upon landing

Then they will start to regret how far behind they are in learning comparing to their US counterparts who have rather spent their time in studying than wasting their lives on the streets

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## Raphael

Keel said:


> He (they) will have a chance to gain permanent landing on USA but they'll find their value to the CIA vaporises substantially upon landing
> 
> Then they will start to regret how far behind they are in learning comparing to their counterparts who have spent their time in studying than wasting their lives on the streets



Yep. Their value is entirely conditional on being a local agent, and having the capacity to stir up trouble on the ground. That's why China has never stopped agitators from leaving China, a form of tacit encouragement, but always prevented them from ever returning and setting foot on Chinese soil (see the '89 protestors).

In the US, they will pen an editorial once a decade in the Epoch Times about how the US needs to induce color revolution in China, for democracy's sake. The rest of their time, they will be living the good life on public welfare and Medicaid, paid for by the US taxpayers.

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## Keel

Raphael said:


> Yep. Their value is entirely conditional on being a local agent, and having the capacity to stir up trouble on the ground. That's why China has never stopped agitators from leaving China, a form of tacit encouragement, but always prevented them from ever returning and setting foot on Chinese soil (see the '89 protestors).
> 
> In the US, they will pen an editorial once a decade in the Epoch Times about how the US needs to induce color revolution in China, for democracy's sake. The rest of their time, they will be living the good life on public welfare and Medicaid, paid for by the US taxpayers.



That is why the Malaysian government has made absolutely correct decisons on refusing their entries
"Go shIt somewhere" not in my soil!

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## Beidou2020

Why is this terrorist still alive? CPC have gone soft on these waste of oxygen terrorists.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Hong Kong rally: Thousands pack central park to mark anniversary of Tiananmen Square crackdown - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pics from other sites

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## Beidou2020

Should deport these HK filth (along with the liberals in China) to the West.

China should only be home to patriots, not traitors.

CPC did the right things by crushing the colour revolution in 1989. Well done CPC.

China is stronger because of CPC's action in 1989.

Hong Kong are full of backward brainwashed white worshippers.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> Should deport these HK filth (along with the liberals in China) to the West.
> 
> China should only be home to patriots, not traitors.
> 
> CPC did the right things by crushing the colour revolution in 1989. Well done CPC.
> 
> China is stronger because of CPC's action in 1989.
> 
> Hong Kong are full of backward brainwashed white worshippers.



What does Tiananmen have to do with "white-worship"??


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## Beidou2020

Peter C said:


> What does Tiananmen have to do with "white-worship"??



Anyone supporting 1989 colour revolution is a white worshipping anti-China traitor.
These liberal traitors want to see China under Western control as a vassal state like Japan.

Chinese patriots want to see China as a strong and independent country that will do what it wants, when it wants and however the damn hell it wants (just like its doing in the SCS).

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> Anyone supporting 1989 colour revolution is a white worshipping anti-China traitor.
> These liberal traitors want to see China under Western control as a vassal state like Japan.
> 
> Chinese patriots want to see China as a strong and independent country that will do what it wants, when it wants and however the damn hell it wants (just like its doing in the SCS).



Again...how does Democracy equate with "white-worship"? Considering Communism/Socialism is a white invention.

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## chauism

Beidou2020 said:


> Anyone supporting 1989 colour revolution is a white worshipping anti-China traitor.
> These liberal traitors want to see China under Western control as a vassal state like Japan.
> 
> Chinese patriots want to see China as a strong and independent country that will do what it wants, when it wants and however the damn hell it wants (just like its doing in the SCS).


Calm down man.

I am sure most of those people are just sympathizers of those students who died during that incident. It is just a rememberance, but not a protest to demand for anything.


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## jhungary

Peter C said:


> Again...how does Democracy equate with "white-worship"? Considering Communism/Socialism is a white invention.



While the man is saying this, he forgot that socialism, communism and capitalism are all created in the West.

Karl Marx, the forefather of Communism is German
Carles Fourier, forefather of Socialism is French
and Capitalism is a collective thinking of ancient Greece

So no matter how they try to spin it, all 1.3 billion Chinese would be White worshipper according to the man himself. LOL, isn't that funny?

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## Beidou2020

Peter C said:


> Again...how does Democracy equate with "white-worship"? Considering Communism/Socialism is a white invention.



You are too foolish to understand my point.

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## Steve781

Beidou2020 said:


> You are too foolish to understand my point.


What point? Karl Marx was white. It's a fact.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Steve781 said:


> What point? Karl Marx was white. It's a fact.



He believes if China were a democracy it would automagically become a vassal state of the U.S. Somehow white worship is related to this.


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## Cossack25A1

So wait, there are some Chinese marking the anniversary of that *_censored_* event back in '89?


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## dlclong

Marx Karl is a white man, but his ideas are different from other white western world mainstream ideas, he hopes the world does not have oppression, all equality.

but since the age of discovery, the mainstream ideology of white is to conquer the world, until today, western white still self as the worldcenter, wants to rule the world, do not know peace, hasn't changed a bit


Steve781 said:


> What point? Karl Marx was white. It's a fact.





Peter C said:


> He believes if China were a democracy it would automagically become a vassal state of the U.S. Somehow white worship is related to this.

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## Place Of Space

I can't find soul in those prayers' eyes. They are fooled and they think Hongkong's achievement because of democracy.

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## ljxjcz

Quite a photo from the air. I still believe most students in TS were passionate, brave and patriotic, they deserved proper commemoration. Unfortunately, they were misled by the liberal democracy propaganda. From today's view, we have bunch of examples(Russia, Ukraine, you name it) to show us that the so called revolution is nothing but only farce, even the scholar who once claimed "End of history" has changed his mind. At that time, the young men and women in TS, however, could not see the future. They are not the first, nor the last sacrifice to mother China. And their blood should not be shed in vain, the country who conspired, funded and instigated this tragedy will pay its price eventually.

As for these HK protesters, they are not even patriots. If my memory serves me, the Queen never gave them election rights, or democracy. I cannot help but wonder her majesty's navy dare to send even one vessel to protect these traitors if they overstep the line.

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## Hamartia Antidote

dlclong said:


> Marx Karl is a white man, but his ideas are different from other white western world mainstream ideas, he hopes the world does not have oppression, all equality.



Gotcha, you support the version of a society thought up by atypical white men (Messiahs?)


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## AndrewJin

Peter C said:


> Gotcha, you support the version of a society thought up by atypical white men (Messiahs?)


Do u bring successful democracy to those regions where your regime has meddled around? Or it should be called demon-cracy.

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## senheiser



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## Galad

Peter C said:


> He believes if China were a democracy it would automagically become a vassal state of the U.S. Somehow white worship is related to this.


Stop twisting his words!Also at least for once stop being full with hypocrisy and double-standards.Come and show us which one of so-called "democratic" (in Western view) countries not acting as obedient servant and yes man to any and all of Western desires.
No doubt NGOs are once again hard working to organize such "spontaneous" protests.As for those protesters-they should be deported to the West to enjoy its "values". They love so-called "democracy" -well why not move to such country.None of them will be missed.

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## nForce

Steve781 said:


> What point? Karl Marx was white. It's a fact.



hmm.. your argument is flawed. 

You see, Muhammad Ali was of African-American descent and a Sunni Muslim and a boxer. Now him being a boxer does not make all Muslims boxers. Neither it has got anything to do with him being an African-American.

Karl Marx was white, that does not mean he was KKK.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

This is massive compared to strength in Taiwan.

Hundreds remember Tiananmen massacre in Taipei




> Taipei, June 4 (CNA)* Over 200 people* attended a candlelight vigil in Taipei on Thursday to commemorate the Tiananmen Square massacre and to voice support for political dissidents in China.
> 
> Participants, among them students from Taiwan, China and Hong Kong, lit candles at the event in front of National Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall to pay tribute to those who lost their lives in the bloody crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators in Beijing on June 4, 1989.
> 
> During the event, some participants held umbrellas aloft as a gesture of defiance against what they see as China's suppression of human rights, freedom and democracy. The umbrella is a symbol of the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement that took place last year.
> 
> "The Umbrella Revolution in Hong Kong has reminded us of an important thing that we have forgotten: the enemy from 26 years ago has never left. What happened 26 years ago almost took place again in Hong Kong last year," said Henry Kwok (郭豫謙), a spokesperson for the Association of Taiwanese Students for the Democratization of China, one of the organizers of the event.
> 
> "For our generation, the June Fourth incident is not only a historical incident, but an ongoing fight for democracy," said Kwok, a Hong Kong student in Taiwan.
> 
> Chou Ching-chang (周慶昌), another member of the association, said his group has reached out to Taiwan's ruling Kuomintang (KMT) and opposition Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) for the first time this year to request that they state their positions on the Tiananmen Square massacre.
> 
> "We hope the values of human rights, freedom and democracy can be taken into consideration in any future engagement between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait," he said.
> 
> He added that both the KMT and DPP have sent representatives to the vigil.
> 
> Participants also voiced support for political dissidents in China, including civil rights lawyer Pu Zhiqiang (浦志強), activist Chen Yunfei (陳雲飛), writer Chen Xi (陳西) and journalist Gao Yu (高瑜).
> 
> "Gao Yu told us that the Chinese Communist Party is most afraid of our words," said Wu'er Kaixi (吾爾開希), a student leader in the Tiananmen Square protests who attended the vigil.
> 
> "So let us use our words to remember the June Fourth Incident today. Our words today are: never forget and never give up," he said.
> 
> Chinese writer and democracy activist Yu Jie (余杰) and Wang Dan (王丹), another prominent student leader in the 1989 protests, also joined the event in Taipei.
> 
> After weeks of pro-democracy protests in 1989, Chinese troops and tanks fired on civilians in Beijing's Tiananmen Square on June 4. Estimates of the death toll range from several hundred to thousands.
> 
> "Some things should never be forgotten and I am here to remember them," said Violet Cheng (鄭如韻), a 22-year-old student of veterinary science.
> 
> Her classmate Willy Chien (簡維萱), 22, said he and Cheng are joining the vigil for the second year in a row. The Sunflower Student Movement in Taiwan last year drew their attention to the Tiananmen Square protests, which are also student-led protests, he said.
> 
> A Chinese exchange student, meanwhile, said the event in Taiwan feels very different from the ones in Hong Kong, which he saw online.
> 
> While those in Hong Kong focus on remembering the victims, the Taiwanese people seem to be voicing their own fears and dislikes about the Communist Party, said the student, who wishes to remain anonymous because topics related to the Tiananmen Square incident are still a taboo in China.
> 
> While he believes most young people in China do not know much about the massacre right now, more are beginning to learn about it, he said.
> 
> "Things are starting to change. I am optimistic," he said. "Change does not occur overnight."



Hundreds remember Tiananmen massacre in Taipei | Society | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS


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## Hamartia Antidote

AndrewJin said:


> Do u bring successful democracy to those regions where your regime has meddled around? Or it should be called demon-cracy.



We can worship some white men and you can worship some other white men and we can just call it even.


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## DrawingDead

nForce said:


> hmm.. your argument is flawed.
> 
> You see, Muhammad Ali was of African-American descent and a Sunni Muslim and a boxer. Now him being a boxer does not make all Muslims boxers. Neither it has got anything to do with him being an African-American.
> 
> Karl Marx was white, that does not mean he was KKK.



You might want to make that argument to the Chinese poster who called the pursuit of freedom and democracy "white worship"

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## Azizam

DrawingDead said:


> You might want to make that argument to the Chinese poster who called the pursuit of freedom and democracy "white worship"


Freedom depends on interpretation. There's no such thing as "being free" in this world and there's absolutely no guarantee that democracy brings "freedom".

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## AndrewJin

Azizam said:


> Freedom depends on interpretation. There's no such thing as "being free" in this world and there's absolutely no guarantee that democracy brings "freedom".


there is some difference between democracy and demoncrazy, the latter one is what US is spreading around the world.

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## DrawingDead

Azizam said:


> Freedom depends on interpretation. There's no such thing as "being free" in this world and there's absolutely no guarantee that democracy brings "freedom".



That's why I wrote "Pursuit of freedom and democracy"


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## Azizam

AndrewJin said:


> there is some difference between democracy and demoncrazy, the latter one is what US is spreading around the world.


It's also not the perfect system. IMO democracy will never work in China, at least in its current stage as a developing nation.



DrawingDead said:


> That's why I wrote "Pursuit of freedom and democracy"


True but we hear this term too many times for political reasons.


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## Zsari

Peter C said:


> Again...how does Democracy equate with "white-worship"? Considering Communism/Socialism is a white invention.



Except Marx is not the inventor of collectivism, but rather a proponent of it.

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## DaiViet

I find the Chinese in here mentally brainwashed by their government to hate the west and capitalism that Capitalism is from evil white men. This so similar to those Vietnamese worship communist vietnamese. They speak and think of the west and capitalism are the same. Fortunately, that kind of thinking is fading as among the youth when Vietnam get closer to the west, it is now Chinese evil to them now. Great politics.


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## ChineseTiger1986

That's why HK's economy will keep stink.

Just don't blame Joshua Wong for ruining HK's economy, since you are the one who actually allows these creatures to exist.

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## 70U63

But at least they (own people) are in charge of their country and work hard to minimise the outside political force into their country.

Those countries (including China and Vietnam) are one party state, no more Communist. There are a lot of Democratic shxt hole in the region if you know what i mean. Why don't let them try new system and see whether it is working or not. 





DaiViet said:


> I find the Chinese in here mentally brainwashed by their government to hate the west and capitalism that Capitalism is from evil white men. This so similar to those Vietnamese worship communist vietnamese. They speak and think of the west and capitalism are the same. Fortunately, that kind of thinking is fading as among the youth when Vietnam get closer to the west, it is now Chinese evil to them now. Great politics.

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## Nan Yang

Peter C said:


> Again...how does Democracy equate with "white-worship"? Considering Communism/Socialism is a white invention.


Actually Chinese communism was different from Western communism.
Chinese communism revolution got their inspiration from the numerous ancient Chinese peasant rebellion.

*Dazexiang Uprising*

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## HRM YANG

70U63 said:


> But at least they (own people) are in charge of their country and work hard to minimise the outside political force into their country.
> 
> Those countries (including China and Vietnam) are one party state, no more Communist. There are a lot of Democratic shxt hole in the region if you know what i mean. Why don't let them try new system and see whether it is working or not.



Haven't we tried? My Malaysian friend? Mainland was charged by KWO MING TANG, they were capitalists, and all the things had proved no divergence even worse. Chum Kai Shik( the former president of ROC before 1949) ordered to blow the yellow river dam out to stop the Japanese kept marching forward, so that was a total disaster for the residences around the region, they killed almost one million citizens and a large proportion of them died because of starving. Albeit CHINESE paid deally but we failed to stop japanese. Yes I think you mentioned one thing that is quite correct: we should prevent the western power eroding us exclusively, I won't trust CHINESE so- called democratic government, they will be the tool and they must be the tool, as a matter of fact this is really striking to see, Cai yingwen ,the presidential candidate of DPP, calling all the Taiwanese to be more independent, but just before where has she been and what has she do? And you will know what role she anticipates to be between the straight, she is just manipulating some pseudo and pretentious pleas to turn all the Taiwanese to be the soldier of American bunker which is adequate and optimal for American to fight against mainland. And everyone says mainland is a behemoth who is eagerly hoping to invade Taiwan this beautiful adolescent girl.
But don't forget, who makes Taiwanese rich and who occupies the biggest proportion of supporting Taiwan economy, American? Japan? Huh? Even Philippine?
CHINESE buys HTC and Luxgenmotor , giant bike, and tourist from Mainland are using their RMB to save Taiwan's languid economy, and their government turns the money to AH-64 D and E-2C.
   these are our compatriots.

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## 70U63

If they want Democratic syatem, CPC can dissolve, and create 2 large parties which compete with each other; and both parties are indirectly control by ex-CPC leaders behind the scene.
May be some countries are using the same system, which bankers n some elite are behind the scene.

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## HRM YANG

70U63 said:


> If they want Democratic syatem, CPC can dissolve, and create 2 large parties which compete with each other; and both parties are indirectly control by ex-CPC leaders behind the scene.
> May be some countries are using the same system, which bankers n some elite are behind the scene.


Yeah, foremost is all for CHINESE people's interest, not regional interest or western's.
Positive


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## ih8viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Should deport these HK filth (along with the liberals in China) to the West.
> 
> China should only be home to patriots, not traitors.
> 
> CPC did the right things by crushing the colour revolution in 1989. Well done CPC.
> 
> China is stronger because of CPC's action in 1989.
> 
> Hong Kong are full of backward brainwashed white worshippers.




Unbelievable. Look at that turnout. China needs to make adjustments and fix this crap. Look at all these western dogs, brainwashed and blindly following a path towards self destruction.

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## ahojunk

AndrewJin said:


> Do u bring successful democracy to those regions where your regime has meddled around? Or it should be called demon-cracy.





AndrewJin said:


> there is some difference between democracy and demoncrazy, the latter one is what US is spreading around the world.



@AndrewJin 

Your English vocabulary is improving by "leaps and bounds" and is quite good now. You are able to invent new words, demon-cracy and demon-crazy.

Needless to say, I am impressed! Keep it up.

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## sword1947

70U63 said:


> If they want Democratic syatem, CPC can dissolve, and create 2 large parties which compete with each other; and both parties are indirectly control by ex-CPC leaders behind the scene.
> May be some countries are using the same system, which bankers n some elite are behind the scene.


we do not need this, because it only waste time and money



DaiViet said:


> I fibnd the Chinese in here mentally brainwashed by their government to hate the west and capitalism that Capitalism is from evil white men. This so similar to those Vietnamese worship communist vietnamese. They speak and think of the west and capitalism are the same. Fortunately, that kind of thinking is fading as among the youth when Vietnam get closer to the west, it is now Chinese evil to them now. Great politics.


we judge things from the result. if this so called "brainwashed" can lead us to better live, why not follow it?

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## AndrewJin

ahojunk said:


> @AndrewJin
> 
> Your English vocabulary is improving by "leaps and bounds" and is quite good now. You are able to invent new words, demon-cracy and demon-crazy.
> 
> Needless to say, I am impressed! Keep it up.


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## empirefighter

After 1989，we chinese went through several periods about mental idea.
1.1989-1999，at that time，USSR collased and USA became unstoppble，most of our officals lost confidence， many people think we would never catch up with USA，they doubt the CPC. USA supressed us by military，economy and politicaly. Russia also was the other target.90th USA was very powerful，the mainstream idea was：the communism was outdated，we needed to adopt western system and made friends with USA.That time was very hard and dangerous for us，our leader had to allow the officals to receive bribery for sustaining their confidence，that was toally a messy time.
2.2000-2010，at that time，USA bombed our embassy in 1999 ，flew to our coastline and collased with our navy plane in 2001，these two humiliation incidents changed the internal politics a lot，many officals realized that USA never accepted our surrender，look at Russia，they surrender to the west but still faced suppression，as a big country like China and Russia，there was no room for us to kneel down. Our mainstream idea was：USA was selfish and untrusted，We had to fight and we cannot surrender，but the democracy system of USA was still attractive to some officials.
3.after 2011，the mainstream idea is：CPC is very good ，we can borrow some good idea from western democracy system，but we will never accept wesrern system directly. From our view，the western democracy system have many shortcomings，we will develop our democracy system step by step. As a big country like us，the biggest enemy is always ourselves，luckily，today is very stable in China.
As for 64 incident，we mainland Chinese are at the stage 3，but the poor guys in HK are still in stage 1. You foreigners always overevaluate the influence of 64 incident，they think we are brainwashed and lied by the CPC，if we knew the truth and we would rebel the CPC. Lol，why you guys are so naive？ no one cares 64 incident，because that was a rebel，the involvers were stupid and cheated easily by the west，thanks for the CPC ，orelse we may step on the way to hell.
HK and Taiwan are two tiny examples for our Chinese to evaluate the democracy in Chinese society，franking speaking，the result of Taiwan democracy is very disppointed ，Taiwan become a joke in Mainland China. Our adustment about democracy is very simple：if the system can promote the livingstandard of most people，we adopte it ，if not，we ignore it. One man one vote is not attractive to us，we need the good result not the election course，we Chinese are very very realistic. So Taiwan became a negative democracy example for us. HK as a tiny city is another democracy example for us，we will keep observing and evaluating it，even it fails，it also can teach a lesson to most of us.



DaiViet said:


> I find the Chinese in here mentally brainwashed by their government to hate the west and capitalism that Capitalism is from evil white men. This so similar to those Vietnamese worship communist vietnamese. They speak and think of the west and capitalism are the same. Fortunately, that kind of thinking is fading as among the youth when Vietnam get closer to the west, it is now Chinese evil to them now. Great politics.


As a Chinese， I am very tired of you VPC talking about comrades with us，and then beg for help. To be honest， we are happy to see the VPC die，VCP never get closed to China，you vietnamese never become friends with us，so whather you are communist or not means no difference to us. Frankly speaking，becoming your enemy is nothing proud，you are too weak，wish the VCP collapse ASAP from true heart，after that， we can deal with a new Vietnam from pure national interest not from outdated so called comrades friendship. We can get the islands back from SCS，no need to consider much nonsense.
And I have to point out， we donot hate the west and captilism. The europe is our friend and business partner， USA is business partner and NOT enemy. We love captilism， and we love communism，we love all the political systems that can bring us wealth and power. You Vietnam are too childish and stupid，wake up，cold war is over for two decades，that is why I hate to talk about comrades with Vietnam，and tell you the secret，we have much better relation with USA than you thought，we cooperate and exchange in many global issues，our relation is not bad ，be careful and not be sold out.

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## Hamartia Antidote

ih8viet said:


> Unbelievable. Look at that turnout. China needs to make adjustments and fix this crap. Look at all these western dogs, brainwashed and blindly following a path towards self destruction.



Yes, bring in the tanks and the machine guns. That should solve it.


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## Kyle Sun

ahojunk said:


> @AndrewJin
> 
> Your English vocabulary is improving by "leaps and bounds" and is quite good now. You are able to invent new words, demon-cracy and demon-crazy.
> 
> Needless to say, I am impressed! Keep it up.


now they know why we play this forum.


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## TaiShang

Nan Yang said:


> Actually Chinese communism was different from Western communism.
> Chinese communism revolution got their inspiration from the numerous ancient Chinese peasant rebellion.
> 
> *Dazexiang Uprising*



Unfortunately, that racist person is either uneducatable or conveniently ignores the fact that China has been practicing collectivist culture and economy way before Marx ingeniously formulated it into an economic model for the Western masses of the time that were being oppressed and literally killed by the capitalist development.

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## AndrewJin

Kyle Sun said:


> now they know why we play this forum.


I think my English is much better now, my IELTS score increases from 7 before joining PDF to 8 after joining PDF.
Save money, no need to take part in any English course!

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## Kyle Sun

AndrewJin said:


> I think my English is much better now, my IELTS score increases from 7 before joining PDF to 8 after joining PDF.
> Save money, no need to take part in any English course!


My English is worse . 
I change my job ,and not so many foreign colleague now . 
I forget so many English words.


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## AndrewJin

Kyle Sun said:


> My English is worse .
> I change my job ,and not so many foreign colleague now .
> I forget so many English words.


If I did't read some English here, I guess I would forget English in half a month.


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## DJ Crudept

ljxjcz said:


> Quite a photo from the air. I still believe most students in TS were passionate, brave and patriotic, they deserved proper commemoration. Unfortunately, they were misled by the liberal democracy propaganda. From today's view, we have bunch of examples(Russia, Ukraine, you name it) to show us that the so called revolution is nothing but only farce, even the scholar who once claimed "End of history" has changed his mind. At that time, the young men and women in TS, however, could not see the future. They are not the first, nor the last sacrifice to mother China. And their blood should not be shed in vain, the country who conspired, funded and instigated this tragedy will pay its price eventually.
> 
> As for these HK protesters, they are not even patriots. If my memory serves me, the Queen never gave them election rights, or democracy. I cannot help but wonder *her majesty's* navy dare to send even one vessel to protect these traitors if they overstep the line.


she's not our countries queen just call her queen Elizabeth 2


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## Kyle Sun

AndrewJin said:


> If I did't read some English here, I guess I would forget English in half a month.


it is normal . I almost forget all grammar. And my tongue forgets English at all , I did not speak speak english since 2011

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## AndrewJin

Kyle Sun said:


> it is normal . I almost forget all grammar. And my tongue forgets English at all , I did not speak speak english since 2011


Haha, moi aussi. In fact I speak a relatively standard British accent, a little mixed with some Australian accent since I once spent seven months in Perth for an exchange programme.


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## Raphael

Hong Kong police seize explosives ahead of political reform vote: media| Reuters

Hong Kong police seized explosives and arrested nine members of a radical political group on Monday, including a student and a teaching assistant, media in the city reported.

The arrests come ahead of a crucial vote on political reform in Hong Kong this week that has split the former British colony and triggered widespread protests.

It was not immediately clear if the explosives and arrests were linked to the vote. A police spokeswoman declined to confirm the reports or to provide an official statement.

The explosives seized were triacetone triperoxide (TATP), according to a report in the South China Morning Post, which cited a police source. TATP has been used in attacks by extremists in Israel and London.

Police also seized chemical substances that could be used to make explosives and air guns at some of the suspects' homes, according to reports that were also carried on broadcasters RTHK and Cable TV.

Hong Kong lawmakers are due to vote by the end of the week on how the city will select its next chief executive in 2017. Beijing has proposed a direct vote for pre-screened, pro-Beijing candidates, which pro-democracy lawmakers have vowed to veto.

The issue led to mainly peaceful street protests last year that lasted for 79 days and, at their height, included more than 100,000 people.


---------------------------------------------------------

I hope Hong Kong police are prepared to do what's necessary to stop these home-grown terrorists. Otherwise, a 9/11 type scenario is on the verge of occurring.

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## TaiShang

Hong Kong free election activism - is this the real face of the hk yellow umbrella "pro-democracy" activism? And while these obviously black-hands sponsored "activists" are losing the plot, are they resorting to terror tactic, something the central government which they fiercely decried, had never resorted to? Is this the kind of future that the silent majority of HKers wants? HKers that have overwhelmingly supported China's road map for the area?


*- Nine radical activists were arrested in Hong Kong this morning after police found powerful explosives they suspect were intended to be detonated before the Legislative Council debates the government’s political reform package this week.*

- The highly unstable explosives, known as TATP, were seized at the vacant former ATV studio in Sai Kung in the early hours of this morning by the police bomb squad, which carried out a controlled explosion at the site.

- The discovery was swiftly followed by the arrest of five men and four women from Hong Kong, *aged 21 to 34,* in a series of raids across the city by the force’s elite Organised Crime and Triad Bureau.

- The suspects include* a post-secondary student, a teaching assistant, a construction worker, a technician, and three unemployed people,* a police source said. The nine suspects are core members of a localist radical group, which had discussed launching a bomb attack online, according to the source.

NO MERCY FOR TERRORISTS AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, THOSE WHO SPONSOR THEM.

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## YoucanYouup

Great Hindustan said:


> HK should be a democratic country!


 How do you treat naxalites?
They just want the same things

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## Götterdämmerung

This has the handwriting of Operation Gladio B all over it. Those activists are mere patsies, the true puppet masters are in Washington.

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## YoucanYouup

Great Hindustan said:


> We should let our friends in HK know the power of our democracy. Chinese should leave HK!


 Oh yeah! Democracy magic
like this?
India's shocking farmer suicide epidemic - Al Jazeera English


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## TaiShang

Götterdämmerung said:


> This has the handwriting of Operation Gladio B all over it. Those activists are mere patsies, the true puppet masters are in Washington.



That's why China's security services should work diligently to bring out to light the real perpetrators -- those who hold the strings.

I just wish a connection with a US NGO is established, which would then be used to get rid of these terrorists altogether.



YoucanYouup said:


> Oh yeah! Democracy magic
> like this?
> India's shocking farmer suicide epidemic - Al Jazeera English



He is a suicide troll, bro. Better ignore


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## Götterdämmerung

TaiShang said:


> That's why China's security services should work diligently to bring out to light the real perpetrators -- those who hold the strings.
> 
> I just wish a connection with a US NGO is established, which would then be used to get rid of these terrorists altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> He is a suicide troll, bro. Better ignore



I'm sure the Chinese security has tons of information about Gladio B, the Xinjiang terrors is also part of Gladio B.

All US NGOs are infested with CIA agents, bringing them is spells more trouble.

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## Khalid Newazi

Don't you just find it amusing when Indians come and complain about the treatment of minorities in other countries.


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## IR-TR

All anti-China protesters and inciters must be deported to the UK. Hong Kong must be repopulated at least partly by mainland Chinese patriots. This new high speed rail line linking the mainland with Hong Kong is a very important part in this. Next stop, free movement of people. I mean even the EU does that, which is a group of actual countries. Let alone HK, a former slave island. So these steps must be taken before too long. The West can't do sh!t about it either, weaking by the day.

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## third eye

China’s plans for Hong Kong backfire - The Washington Post






A pro-democracy supporter holds a yellow umbrella outside the legislative council in Hong Kong on June 18.

FOR 79 days last year, thousands of protesters occupied major roads in Hong Kong in an attempt to force Chinese authorities to grant the territory genuine democracy. They failed. Local leaders and their overlords in Beijing refused to negotiate over an electoral plan that would allow for a popular vote for Hong Kong’s next leader but would limit candidates to nominees approved by the Communist regime. That left opposition representatives in Hong Kong’s legislature with an unappealing choice this month: Sign off on the inadequate reform or block it at the risk of freezing the current, even less democratic, system in place. “To kowtow, or to veto,” was the way opposition leader Alan Leong summed up the dilemma.

In the end, the opposition voted down the electoral system, which needed a two-thirds majority to pass the legislative council. *The rebuff to the regime was amplified when pro-Beijing legislators walked out in a failed attempt to delay the vote; the final tally was 28 to 8. *It was a moral victory for Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement, which has made clear it won’t accept China’s attempt to gut its promise to allow universal suffrage.

In the short term, the practical result may be to leave Hong Kong with an election system that limits voting to a Beijing-controlled committee. The territory’s unpopular current leader, Leung Chun-ying, who was chosen that way, ruled out further political concessions during the two years remaining in his term. That’s consistent with the policy of Chinese leader Xi Jinping, who has cracked down on dissent and rejected political liberalization since taking power in 2012.

The foreclosure of even a restricted direct election will frustrate the plurality of Hong Kongers who, polls showed, favored Beijing’s proposed system over no change at all. The moderates may have a point: In other parts of the world, even limited exercises of democracy have produced positive results and created momentum for greater change. Hong Kong, however, has been polarized by last year’s Occupy Central movement and the authorities’ unyielding response to it. The regime’s intransigence has had the effect of hardening an opposition that had long been characterized by its moderation as well as its commitment to democracy. The opposition legislators, most of whom were themselves elected by popular vote, were bound to side with the tens of thousands whose peaceful movement for change was rejected and repressed.

Slowly but surely, China is losing Hong Kong’s younger generation. According to numerous reports, *sentiment in the former British colony increasingly favors a political solution tailored to the territory, rather than to China as a whole. Hostility toward the mainland is growing: The booing of China’s national anthem by a crowd cheering for Hong Kong’s soccer team this month was widely noted.* By now, it ought to be evident even to Communist leaders that their political policy for Hong Kong has backfired. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean it’s likely to change.


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## 70U63

We always see oversea news report on HK & Taiwan are anti-mainland. However, people don't forget that there are also a lot of Hong Kong and Taiwan people are pro-China.
Example: Jackie Chan; Of course for those who don't like CPC, they will argue that Jackie has been bought by the party . Same thing happen to a lot democratic country (like Malaysia), _either you are with us or against us_ mentality

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## Beidou2020

CPC must take this as a great opportunity to increase control over HK.

I have always felt HK should be dealt with an iron fist by the CPC. Giving HK SAR status was a mistake as HK is used to conduct anti-China activities by foreign forces.

CPC always needs a crisis for them to take tougher action. This is the crisis that they needed.

One of the best things to come out of HK protests is the new NGO law that is about to come into force in China.

Hopefully CPC uses this to increase CPC control of HK.

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## IR-TR

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC must take this as a great opportunity to increase control over HK.
> 
> I have always felt HK should be dealt with an iron fist by the CPC. Giving HK SAR status was a mistake as HK is used to conduct anti-China activities by foreign forces.
> 
> CPC always needs a crisis for them to take tougher action. This is the crisis that they needed.
> 
> One of the best things to come out of HK protests is the new NGO law that is about to come into force in China.
> 
> Hopefully CPC uses this to increase CPC control of HK.



That, and increasing the importance of mainland cities (decreasing HK's importance) and shift many HK'ers to the mainland by making their lives/housing unaffordable in HK, and repopulate a large section of HK with mainland rich people. That will solve all. Macau isn't a problem. After that, full speed ahead on Taiwan.


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## Zsari

third eye said:


> China’s plans for Hong Kong backfire - The Washington Post
> FOR 79 days last year, thousands of protesters occupied major roads in Hong Kong in an attempt to force Chinese authorities to grant the territory genuine democracy. They failed. Local leaders and their overlords in Beijing refused to negotiate over an electoral plan that would allow for a popular vote for Hong Kong’s next leader but would limit candidates to nominees approved by the Communist regime. That left opposition representatives in Hong Kong’s legislature with an unappealing choice this month: Sign off on the inadequate reform or block it at the risk of freezing the current, even less democratic, system in place. “To kowtow, or to veto,” was the way opposition leader Alan Leong summed up the dilemma.
> 
> In the end, the opposition voted down the electoral system, which needed a two-thirds majority to pass the legislative council. *The rebuff to the regime was amplified when pro-Beijing legislators walked out in a failed attempt to delay the vote; the final tally was 28 to 8. *It was a moral victory for Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement, which has made clear it won’t accept China’s attempt to gut its promise to allow universal suffrage.
> 
> In the short term, the practical result may be to leave Hong Kong with an election system that limits voting to a Beijing-controlled committee. The territory’s unpopular current leader, Leung Chun-ying, who was chosen that way, ruled out further political concessions during the two years remaining in his term. That’s consistent with the policy of Chinese leader Xi Jinping, who has cracked down on dissent and rejected political liberalization since taking power in 2012.
> 
> The foreclosure of even a restricted direct election will frustrate the plurality of Hong Kongers who, polls showed, favored Beijing’s proposed system over no change at all. The moderates may have a point: In other parts of the world, even limited exercises of democracy have produced positive results and created momentum for greater change. Hong Kong, however, has been polarized by last year’s Occupy Central movement and the authorities’ unyielding response to it. The regime’s intransigence has had the effect of hardening an opposition that had long been characterized by its moderation as well as its commitment to democracy. The opposition legislators, most of whom were themselves elected by popular vote, were bound to side with the tens of thousands whose peaceful movement for change was rejected and repressed.
> 
> Slowly but surely, China is losing Hong Kong’s younger generation. According to numerous reports, *sentiment in the former British colony increasingly favors a political solution tailored to the territory, rather than to China as a whole. Hostility toward the mainland is growing: The booing of China’s national anthem by a crowd cheering for Hong Kong’s soccer team this month was widely noted.* By now, it ought to be evident even to Communist leaders that their political policy for Hong Kong has backfired. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean it’s likely to change.


 
What the writer doesn't know or rather doesn't want the readers to know is that a failed vote work in Beijing's favor, as it meant the return to status quo and shelving of any reforming plans. Moreover, those who voted down the plan become the target of blame for the lack of any political reform hence forward. Its not a coincident that majority of the pro-Beijing legislators walked out but still leave enough body behind to make a vote valid. While certain segment will get rowdier undoubtedly, this vote will serve to make the pro-democracy camp even less popular after their disruptive protest.

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## BuddhaPalm

Stop teaching English in HK public school and replace with Maoist Leninist Marxist theory. Send in schoolteachers with PLA uniforms. When they grow up, they will denouce their capitalist parents waving the little red book.

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## Jlaw

So the moral of the story is. Democracy is good only if anti-Chinese get their way. Or else democracy is bad.

Ahh those funny HKers. 

Which I might mention--The Brits don't want you and Canadians don't want you either.

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## Nan Yang

Zsari said:


> What the writer doesn't know or rather doesn't want the readers to know is that a failed vote work in Beijing's favor, as it meant the return to status quo and shelving of any reforming plans. Moreover, those who voted down the plan become the target of blame for the lack of any political reform hence forward. Its not a coincident that majority of the pro-Beijing legislators walked out but still leave enough body behind to make a vote valid. While certain segment will get rowdier undoubtedly, this vote will serve to make the pro-democracy camp even less popular after their disruptive protest.



Exactly. China wins either way the vote goes.

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## ito

Thousands of Hong Kong protesters marched for full democracy on Wednesday and called on the Chinese-controlled city's leader to resign, just weeks after lawmakers voted down an electoral reform package backed by Communist Party leaders in Beijing.

Some protesters known as "localists", fighting for greater autonomy and even independence from China, held up signs calling for a "Hong Kong nation", while others waved Hong Kong's old colonial-era flags featuring a UK Union Jack.

"I want real universal suffrage" the crowds chanted on a sweltering day, with many holding yellow umbrellas, a symbol of the "Umbrella Movement" last year when protesters blocked major roads to pressure Beijing to allow direct elections in 2017.

"The Umbrella Movement has not come to an end, because we have not got genuine universal suffrage," said Eve Lam, a 53-year-old office assistant who was handing out paper umbrellas to passers-by.

The crowds, closely watched by scores of police, were thinner than a year ago when some half a million people showed up for the annual July 1 march on the anniversary of the city's return to China in 1997.

Then, police arrested more than 500 people who blocked a road in the financial district, a prelude to the Occupy movement in late September.

"C.Y. Leung step down," shouted student democracy leader Joshua Wong to the passing crowds, referring to leader Leung Chun-ying. "Remake the future of our city. Build a democratic Hong Kong."

Hong Kong and Chinese officials attended a flag-raising ceremony in the morning with helicopter fly-bys and the playing of China's national anthem.

The protest march comes nearly two weeks after Hong Kong's legislature vetoed a Beijing-backed electoral reform proposal that had triggered the sometimes violent protests in the city, presenting Beijing with one of its most serious challenges in years.

Hong Kong leader Leung called for the city to move forward.

"Even though political reforms have taken up considerable effort and time, the Hong Kong government will strengthen economic development and improve people's livelihoods," he said in a speech.

Hong Kong returned to China under a "one country, two systems" formula that granted the city wide-ranging freedoms denied in mainland China.

China also held out the promise of universal suffrage. The electoral blueprint rejected by lawmakers last month would have allowed a direct vote for the city's next chief executive in 2017, but only from among pre-screened, pro-Beijing candidates.



(Additional reporting by Donny Kwok, Shan Kao; Writing by James Pomfret; Editing byNick Macfie)

Thousands march for Hong Kong democracy| Reuters

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## Steve781

CIA sponsored colour revolution!
Just getting in before the Chinese posters do.

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## cirr

Only thousands？

I was expecting at least hundreds of thousands。

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## ito

Steve781 said:


> CIA sponsored colour revolution!
> Just getting in before the Chinese posters do.



Are any Chinese members from Hong Kong here? Any answers on to why so many marches in Hong Kong against Chinese rule?

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## cirr

Steve781 said:


> CIA sponsored colour revolution!
> Just getting in before the Chinese posters do.



These suckers should go to the UK，take to the streets in the centre of London and demand full democracy rolled back 100 years in front of the Parliament。

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## ito

cirr said:


> Only thousands？
> 
> I was expecting at least hundreds of thousands。



This is annual protest in Hong Kong against Chinese rule..nothing special. I guess today in 1997, Hong Kong went under Chinese rule.


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## 55100864

cirr said:


> Only thousands？
> 
> I was expecting at least hundreds of thousands。


This James Pomfret guy is likely going to be fired because the generous discounts he gives


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## cirr

ito said:


> This is annual protest in Hong Kong against Chinese rule..nothing special. I guess today in 1997, Hong Kong went under Chinese rule.



There is a “one country one system” formula waiting for these people of slavish mentality。

Slavish of course to their former colonial ruler。

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## ito

cirr said:


> There is a “one country one system” formula waiting for these people of slavish mentality。
> 
> Slavish of course to their former colonial ruler。



For all practical purpose Hong Kong is a independent country. They have their own law, currency, economy and constitution and even a passport. It would very hard for China to convince for 'one country one system'. The frequency at which these protests are organized is growing fast.


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## Bussard Ramjet

ito said:


> For all practical purpose Hong Kong is a independent country. They have their own law, currency, economy and constitution and even a passport. It would very hard for China to convince for 'one country one system'. The frequency at which these protests are organized is growing fast.



They do not have their own law. The rights of making laws are derived by courts through the Basic Law.

They do not have their own economy. They are totally linked with Chinese economy. 

They do not have their own constitution. Their constitution is the Constitution of the People's Republic of China. They have a separate rule book called the Basic Law which defines the basic parameters of the one country two systems.

They do not have their own passport. The passport is issued by Chinese authorities. 

I agree that it appears that it is almost like a defacto country, but IT IS NOT. 

The whole essence of one country two systems was that HK would essentially keep its old system, and function autonomously, except for DEFENSE AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

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## jhungary

Bussard Ramjet said:


> They do not have their own law. The rights of making laws are derived by courts through the Basic Law.
> 
> They do not have their own economy. They are totally linked with Chinese economy.



Actually, no, the Hong Kong economical system is still linked to the US/Commonwealth economy system instead of the Chinese system.

Both Account report system and book keeping system is linked to British Commonweal System, hence a person with Commonwealth System qualification can be a certified practices accountant or chartered accountant in Hong Kong.

Stock market is linked to the US as HKD are pegged to USD, at HKD$7.8 : $1

In terms, Hong Kong have an independent, non-interference Market which closely related to the US system. But most economist would considered Hong Kong have an independent Economic and Financial System

And no, Hong Kong economy does not depend on China, 90% of Hong Kong economy is from service sector, and most (68% of those) are from banking and stock market.

And also, Basic Law is not actually a "law" it is more like the constitution in the US, Hong Kong have their own legislative council that made their own law, but the council were actually controlled by Chinese Government (Which is the reason of the protested in the first place)

Basic law cannot be altered, even by China, but Chinese People Congress can "Explain" the law if there are discrepancy in the law. And under basic law, Hong Kong can purpose and enforce any law except in two area, "Defence Related" and "Foreign Policy Related" law cannot be passed in the Legislative council.

And finally, Hong Kong retain common law system, a lot different to the legal system in place in China

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## cnleio

HongKong is really free in China ! Better than old time governed by British master.

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## ito

sweetgrape said:


> So many? How many? more than rapist in india a year?
> I bet, the rate must be lower than criminal rate in indian congress.



Start a new thread on rape. Don't spoil my thread.



Bussard Ramjet said:


> They do not have their own law. The rights of making laws are derived by courts through the Basic Law.
> 
> They do not have their own economy. They are totally linked with Chinese economy.
> 
> They do not have their own constitution. Their constitution is the Constitution of the People's Republic of China. They have a separate rule book called the Basic Law which defines the basic parameters of the one country two systems.
> 
> They do not have their own passport. The passport is issued by Chinese authorities.
> 
> I agree that it appears that it is almost like a defacto country, but IT IS NOT.
> 
> The whole essence of one country two systems was that HK would essentially keep its old system, and function autonomously, except for DEFENSE AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS.



Marches against government are not allowed by Chinese constitution. HK allows that. Hence you never see marches in mainland China while you see scores in HK. HK economy is pretty much western and is more connected to London and New York. Chinese and Hong Kongers have different passports.


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## sweetgrape

ito said:


> Start a new thread on rape. Don't spoil my thread.


Hehe,why you are such sensitive?! is it not true?
The thread was spoiled by your self, not me.




ito said:


> Marches against government are not allowed by Chinese constitution. HK allows that. Hence you never see marches in mainland China while you see scores in HK. HK economy is pretty much western and is more connected to London and New York. Chinese and Hong Kongers have different passports.


Hehe, you know shit about China Mainland and HK, even you don't know your indian current situation, here sound like you are China hand.

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## TaiShang

Chief Executive CY Leung and senior government officials attended a flag-raising ceremony today to celebrate the 18th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.



About 2,500 people, including district leaders, and members of community and uniformed groups, attended the ceremony at Golden Bauhinia Square in Wan Chai this morning.



Many people also watched the ceremony at the designated public viewing area.



The Police Band performed at the ceremony, followed by a sea parade and a fly-past by the disciplined services.

Video:

news.gov.hk - Categories - Admin & Civic Affairs - Flag-raising marks SAR anniversary

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## sweetgrape

ito said:


> I sensitive?  I can sell you in the market.
> 
> I know more about China than you. You know about China through your government. I don' have that restriction.


Hehe, more than me?! through my government? Don't have the restriction?! ordinary word, can be more creative?
for such you kind of indian, ignorance is confidence, not surprised.

Just like you government, even you boast of the biggest democratic country, but still a poorest and most corrupted country, just read a report, in a examinal scandal, more than 40 persons died quirkily, but you a indian high officer said it is normal, hehe, you think you don't have the restriction, you know more than me?! you and you country, in my eyes, is a big joke.

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## ito

sweetgrape said:


> Hehe, more than me?! through my government? Don't have the restriction?! ordinary word, can be more creative?
> for such you kind of indian, ignorance is confidence, not surprised.
> 
> Just like you government, even you boast of the biggest democratic country, but still a poor and corrupted country, just read a report, in a examinal scandal, more than 40 persons died quirkily, but you a indian high officer said it is normal, hehe, you think you don't have the restriction, you know more than me?! you and you country, in my eyes, is a big joke.



Hehe...now you are being sensitive. 

It is not me saying about China. Go to west and ask about China. They will say the same as me. We may be poorer than you but we control the fate of our government, while your government control your fate and of your fellow citizens. Let me tell you...there is hell lot of a difference between the two situations. This is the precise reason why Hong Kongers protests and lead marches against your government


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

I remember watching the ceremony as a kid back in 1997. The occupy Hong Kong clowns were in diapers back then Joshua Wong still in Vietnam.

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## TaiShang

HONG KONG, July 1 -- About 3,000 people attended a flag-raising ceremony at Hong Kong's Golden Bauhinia Square Sunday morning to mark the 15th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR).

Hong Kong's new chief executive Leung Chun-ying and senior government officials attended the ceremony, joined by guests including community leaders, members of community groups and uniformed groups.

Guard of Honor of the Disciplined Services and the Flag and Escort Parties marched in the square with the music played by the Hong Kong Police Band. At 8 a.m., the national flag and the regional flag were hoisted up amid the National Anthem, while all attendees stood up in solemn silence.

The ceremony was followed by a sea parade and a fly-past by the disciplined services. The square was brimmed over with cheer and jubilance.

"Happy anniversary!" Hong Kong citizen Wong Kwai Ha said joyfully, adding that it was heartening to join the magnificent ceremony in the morning of the HKSAR's 15th birthday.

Wong wished her home city an even more prosperous future. She said she has full confidence in the new term of the SAR government.

Ping Yi, a 24-year-old tourist from Hubei Province, was on a ride of the Star Ferry from Tsim Sha Tsui to Wanchai during the ceremony and was able to view the flag raising. "It was an exciting moment," she said. "People from Hong Kong and Mainland are of one family."

The official daily flag raising ceremony is held at the Golden Bauhinia Square and conducted by the Hong Kong Police Force, which has become a tourist attraction.

The square was named after the giant statue of a golden Bauhinia blakeana at the center of the area, situated outside the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Center in Wanchai, where the ceremonies for the return of Hong Kong and the establishment of the HKSAR were held in July 1997.

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## ito

terranMarine said:


> ANd you know the opinions of the West regarding what's happening in HK ? No, let me tell you what the West thinks of Indians. They steal their JOBS, they wish these Indians to get lost. How do i know that? Because many White people here say that and i'm a personal witness.



I am talking about what west thinks of Chinese government not about Chinese. Just two days back this appeared on Bloomberg. India has positive imagine regarding its democracy, while China is lambasted. 

U.S. Lambastes China on Human Rights Once Visitors Head Home - Bloomberg Business


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## ito

terranMarine said:


> And you think i'm making stories up? Yeah my ears are probably deaf since i have heard plenty of White Europeans dislike Indians during our conversations. UK is only just 1 country in Europe, you know sh!t about what the rest of the Europeans talk about Indians here. They make fun of your funny accent, hate their companies outsourcing to Indian call centers, dislike Indians stealing their jobs. The list goes on and on in forums or behind your backs. So before you come claim the whole West knows what HK people thinks of the Chinese government i suggest you worry more about the image the West has about Indians.



You seem to forget, I said I lived in UK...I need not hear from you. 

By the way the topic is Hong Kongers wants Chinese government out. Talk about that.

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## rott

ito said:


> Are any Chinese members from Hong Kong here? Any answers on to why so many marches in Hong Kong against Chinese rule?


@Chinese-Dragon, He's from Hongkong.

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## Chinese-Dragon

rott said:


> @Chinese-Dragon, He's from Hongkong.



Hey rott. 

This stuff is easy to explain. If you check the results of the last HK elections, you'll see the VAST majority of Hong Kongers voted for the pro-Beijing camp (including myself).

These pro-democracy protestors know they have no hope of winning in terms of numbers, or though voting, so this is their desperate last resort. And even then they could only muster up such pitiful numbers.

The national government was too kind when they implemented the "One country two systems" policy, and some clowns are trying to take advantage of their kindness. But those clowns are living on borrowed time, every year that passes the HK government moves closer and closer to the national government. We won't even have to wait till the One country Two systems policy expires, the results will come much sooner.

Pro-Beijing camp already dominates at every level of the HK government (as we voted for), and that's only going to keep increasing given the trend of our political system.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Hey rott.
> 
> This stuff is easy to explain. If you check the results of the last HK elections, you'll see the VAST majority of Hong Kongers voted for the pro-Beijing camp (including myself).
> 
> These pro-democracy protestors know they have no hope of winning in terms of numbers, or though voting, so this is their desperate last resort. And even then they could only muster up such pitiful numbers.
> 
> The national government was too kind when they implemented the "One country two systems" policy, and some clowns are trying to take advantage of their kindness. But those clowns are living on borrowed time, every year that passes the HK government moves closer and closer to the national government. We won't even have to wait till the One country Two systems policy expires, the results will come much sooner.
> 
> Pro-Beijing camp already dominates at every level of the HK government (as we voted for), and that's only going to keep increasing given the trend of our political system.



What you have stated don't seem to go in sync with this news report



> Hong Kong's legislature on Thursday vetoed a China-backed electoral reform package criticized by opposition pro-democracy lawmakers and activists as undemocratic, easing for now the prospect of fresh mass protests in the financial hub.
> 
> The rejection had been expected and will likely appease some activists who had demanded a veto of what they call a "fake" democratic model for how the Chinese-controlled territory chooses its next leader in 2017.
> 
> But it was a setback for Beijing's Communist leaders, who said in response that they remained committed to universal suffrage for Hong Kong but signaled no further concessions to the pro-democracy opposition.
> 
> Beijing had pressured and cajoled the city's pro-democracy lawmakers to back the blueprint that would have allowed a direct vote for the city's chief executive, but with only pre-screened, pro-Beijing candidates on the ballot.
> 
> The vote came earlier than expected, with only 37 of the 70 members of the Legislative Council, known as "legco", present. Of these, 28 legislators voted against the blueprint and eight voted in favor, while one did not cast a vote.
> 
> "Today 28 legco members voted against the wishes of the majority of Hong Kong people, and denied them the democratic right to elect the chief executive in the next election," said the city's current pro-Beijing leader Leung Chun-ying.
> 
> "Universal suffrage for the chief executive election has now been blocked. Universal suffrage to elect all members of legco has also become uncertain. I, the government and millions of Hong Kong people are disappointed."
> 
> A spokesman for China's top legislative body, the National People's Congress (NPC), said a few Hong Kong lawmakers remained "stubbornly opposed" to the central government.
> 
> "It fully exposes their selfish interests, hinders Hong Kong's democratic development and damages the essence of Hong Kong's prosperity and stability," the spokesman said, in comments carried by state news agency Xinhua
> 
> 
> "VICTORY OF DEMOCRACY"
> 
> In an unexpected twist, moments before the ballot a large number of pro-establishment and pro-Beijing lawmakers suddenly walked out of the chamber. The votes of one-third of legco members are sufficient to push through a veto.
> 
> Democratic lawmakers, all 27 of whom voted against the plan, marched to the front of the chamber immediately after the veto and unfurled a sign calling for genuine universal suffrage and for Hong Kongers not to give up.
> 
> Some carried the yellow umbrellas that became a symbol of the mass protest movement that brought parts of the former British colony to a standstill last year.
> 
> "This veto has helped Hong Kong people send a clear message to Beijing ... that we want a genuine choice, a real election," said pan-democratic lawmaker Alan Leong.
> 
> "This is not the end of the democratic movement," he said. "This is a new beginning."
> 
> 
> Outside the legislature, pro-democracy protesters broke into cheers and clapped wildly after the result.
> 
> "It's a victory of democracy and the people," said a 75-year-old pro-democracy protester surnamed Wong, who fought back tears.
> 
> Meanwhile, around 500 pro-Beijing supporters outside the chamber staged a minute's silence then began chanting: "Vote them down in 2016!" calling for democratic lawmakers to be kicked out of the legislature in a citywide election next year.
> 
> Hundreds of police were in and around government headquarters with thousands more on standby, but there were no reports of trouble.
> 
> Weeks of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong late last year posed one of the biggest challenges in years for China's ruling Communist Party. Then, more than 100,000 people took to the streets.
> 
> 
> ONLY OPTION
> 
> The reform proposal was laid out by the NPC Standing Committee in Beijing last August and supported by Hong Kong's pro-Beijing leadership.
> 
> Opponents, however, want a genuine democratic election in line with Beijing's promise of universal suffrage made when the territory returned to Chinese rule in 1997.
> 
> Rejection of the proposal now means going back to the old system where a 1,200-member committee stacked with pro-Beijing loyalists selects Hong Kong's leader.
> 
> Democratic lawmakers want on Beijing to restart the democratic reform process and put forward an improved, truly democratic electoral package.
> 
> But the NPC spokesman indicated that would not happen, saying that Beijing's proposal was a "constitutional, lawful, fair and reasonable" decision. "It is legally binding and unshakeable," he said.
> 
> Hong Kong lawmaker Michael Tien said that meant the rejected blueprint remained the only option. "It's very simple. They put forward a proposal. The legislature for this term vetoed it," he said.
> 
> "Next year is legco elections. The power is now in the hands of the voters. If the voters really want the current package they would then have to choose candidates that will support this package in the next term."



Hong Kong vetoes China-backed electoral reform proposal| Reuters


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## Chinese-Dragon

Syama Ayas said:


> What you have stated don't seem to go in sync with this news report



Did you even read it? 

"In an unexpected twist, moments before the ballot a large number of pro-establishment and pro-Beijing lawmakers suddenly walked out of the chamber. The votes of one-third of legco members are sufficient to push through a veto."

"The vote came earlier than expected, with only 37 of the 70 members of the Legislative Council, known as "legco", present."

It was a miscommunication within the pro-Beijing camp, most of them walked out of the vote allowing the other side to push it through, since it only requires 1/3 of the votes. Bad coordination.

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## AndrewJin

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Hey rott.
> 
> This stuff is easy to explain. If you check the results of the last HK elections, you'll see the VAST majority of Hong Kongers voted for the pro-Beijing camp (including myself).
> 
> These pro-democracy protestors know they have no hope of winning in terms of numbers, or though voting, so this is their desperate last resort. And even then they could only muster up such pitiful numbers.
> 
> The national government was too kind when they implemented the "One country two systems" policy, and some clowns are trying to take advantage of their kindness. But those clowns are living on borrowed time, every year that passes the HK government moves closer and closer to the national government. We won't even have to wait till the One country Two systems policy expires, the results will come much sooner.
> 
> Pro-Beijing camp already dominates at every level of the HK government (as we voted for), and that's only going to keep increasing given the trend of our political system.


*Biggest voice doesn't mean biggest support. 
*
It seems that even those self-claimed biggest democracy nationals don't know this rule. And they think they know more than you HKers about HK.  Maybe bragging about Super Power has already convinced themselves of being Supa Powa nationals since colonial era when they were enlightened by their English teachers?

Like in Taiwan, a tiny proportion of people who support abolition of death penalty voice the most. However, those* silent majority* who support death penalty actually account for at least 80% or even more.

Pro-Beijing camp is* more than half* of the parliament, but a slightly less than *2/3*, which is the minimal requirement. The majority of HKers are tired of such meaningless political conflicts provoked by one third of the parliament. No worries, next local election of legislators will prove it.

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## Chinese-Dragon

AndrewJin said:


> *Biggest voice doesn't mean biggest support. *
> Like in Taiwan, a tiny proportion of people who support abolition of death penalty voice the most. However, those silent majority who support death penalty actually account for at least 80% or even more.
> 
> Pro-Beijing camp is more than half of the parliament, but a slightly less than 2/3, which is the minimal requirement. The majority of HKers are tired of such meaningless political conflicts provoked by one third of the parliament. No worries, next local election of legislators will prove it.



One country - Two systems was a bad idea.

It should be One country - One system.

And it will be soon, the highest levels of the HK government are all pro-Beijing already (up to CY Leung himself), there is nothing to stop the tide.

Let all the anti-China Hanjian run and hide, this is China... and if they don't want to live in China, they can jump in the sea and swim.

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## Aepsilons

Why India? Talk about your own Malaysia. lol.


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## Jlaw

Syama Ayas said:


> On the brighter side atleast no one waved below flags or posted messages like in the below image


@mike2000 is back would UK consider having a few more thousand Chinese immigrants?

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## AndrewJin

Jlaw said:


> @mike2000 is back would UK consider having a few more thousand Chinese immigrants?


慢走不送



Nan Yang said:


> That is why India will never advance. Government should be chosen by their peers. Not by ordinary people on the street.
> Popular vote never select the smartest and brightest people.


They choose the one who brags most and who can promise tons of empty cheques.

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## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> @mike2000 is back would UK consider having a few more thousand Chinese immigrants?



UK's solution was BNO passports.

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## Jlaw

AndrewJin said:


> *Biggest voice doesn't mean biggest support.
> *
> It seems that even those self-claimed biggest democracy nationals don't know this rule. And they think they know more than you HKers about HK.  Maybe bragging about Super Power has already convinced themselves of being Supa Powa nationals since colonial era when they were enlightened by their English teachers?
> 
> Like in Taiwan, a tiny proportion of people who support abolition of death penalty voice the most. However, those* silent majority* who support death penalty actually account for at least 80% or even more.
> 
> Pro-Beijing camp is* more than half* of the parliament, but a slightly less than *2/3*, which is the minimal requirement. The majority of HKers are tired of such meaningless political conflicts provoked by one third of the parliament. No worries, next local election of legislators will prove it.



We call this "the squeaky wheel get most grease" In another word whine, bitch, shout and bite. You will be noticed.

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## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> UK's solution was BNO passports.



LOL, BNO passports are complete crap.

Let those pro-democracy/anti-China traitors know, even their beloved foreign masters will only treat them as second class citizens.

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## Jlaw

Chinese-Dragon said:


> One country - Two systems was a bad idea.
> 
> It should be One country - One system.
> 
> And it will be soon, the highest levels of the HK government are all pro-Beijing already (up to CY Leung himself), there is nothing to stop the tide.
> 
> Let all the anti-China Hanjian run and hide, this is China... and if they don't want to live in China, they can jump in the sea and swim.



Or they can go to Vietnam. Only two hours flight from HK. Plus the VCP will welcome their money.



terranMarine said:


> UK's solution was BNO passports.


It's a joke. My gf has it. It's worth slightly more than a Vietnamese passport, nothing more.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> LOL, BNO passports are complete crap.
> 
> Let those pro-democracy/anti-China traitors know, even their beloved foreign masters will only treat them as second class citizens.



These anti China youth in HK have not experienced this 2nd rate treatment from the UK so they are still daydreaming how good life is when being ruled by the UK.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Jlaw said:


> Or they can go to Vietnam. Only two hours flight from HK. Plus the VCP will welcome their money.



Yes, we should throw those traitors out into Vietnam.

But they don't get to keep their money, it was earned off the hard work of real HK Chinese, they can keep their clothes though.

All Zhongnanhai and the HK government have to do is give the word, and we'll take care of it ourselves, don't even need the police to handle it.

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## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> Or they can go to Vietnam. Only two hours flight from HK. Plus the VCP will welcome their money.
> 
> 
> It's a joke. My gf has it. It's worth slightly more than a Vietnamese passport, nothing more.



That's why those HKers felt betrayed by the UK when the British came with that lousy passport.

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## Matrixx

I am with Hong Kong for democacy

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## rott

I think they aren't Anti-China. They are more like Anti-communist. All they are asking for is complete democracy. Just my two cents.


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## AndrewJin

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And my response as a Hong Konger is that we are glad to have humiliated you in 1962.
> 
> Now you Indians crawl on your belly as illegal immigrants into HK, all for a few scraps. Even a janitor in Hong Kong is worth more than 20-30 Indians in terms of economic output.


They can go to India, together with Brahmins dream of Commonwealth super power fantasy to serve white colonial servants. When they reach Mumbai or Delhi, they know even the sewer in HK is better, however, no way back. Ops, they finally know why Indians flood to HK to live in the sewer.

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## TaiShang

永远不忘根， 不忘祖国的刘徳華。。。捧

Andy Lau Tak Wah, HKG's most celebrated, well-known, and accomplished actor/singer/filmmaker/producer, comes out in support of the motherland, China, on the occasion of the 18th anniversary of the "British Turnover to China's Sovereignty" of the former British colony; one of the few physical vestiges of British Colonialism in Asia.











@Chinese-Dragon

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## Kyle Sun

Jlaw said:


> @mike2000 is back would UK consider having a few more thousand Chinese immigrants?


This is an excellent solution.@mike2000 is back please take them away .

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## TaiShang

Mainland- HK Mutual Fund Recognition Scheme Starts Operation
2015-07-01 





The undated photo illustrates the process of mainland and Hong Kong mutual fund recognization launched from July 1, 2015. [Photo: baidu.com]

A new mutual fund program is underway connecting the mainland and Hong Kong.

The new scheme allows eligible Hong Kong-registered funds to be sold to retail investors on the mainland.

An initial investment volume of 300-billion yuan has been set for fund buying and selling.

Chan Ching, director of a Hong Kong-based fund company, says the scheme should be lucrative for Hong Kong investors.

"It is the first chance for international investment institutes to come to the mainland to sell funds from Hong Kong with their own brands, which will be helpful for brand building and saving long-term investment. It is open to the global market. The funds in Hong Kong can be divided into 54 types, all of which can be shared with mainland investors"

Right now, around 100 funds in Hong Kong are qualified to apply for the scheme.

850 funds from the mainland currently meet the requirements.


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## Yizhi

七一遊行人數大跌八成 - 港聞 - 香港新浪新聞


> (星島日報報道)民間人權陣線昨日發起的「七一」遊行，今年參與人數是近年來最少，遊行人士出發時一直沒有填滿維園的兩個足球場，龍尾更在起步後一小時已全部離開維園。民陣指出，有四萬八千人參與遊行；警方則表示遊行最高峰時有一萬九千六百五十人。港大民意研究計畫則推算昨日遊行人數應介乎二萬七千人至三萬人之間，較去年同一推算的十七萬大跌八成三，創近五年來新低。



the number of participants of the annual 'march' is down *83%*, lowest in *5* years.

@Chinese-Dragon @terranMarine 

looks like HKers have had enough of the 'democracy camp' after all. good news for sane people living on both sides of Shenzhen River. .

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## mike2000 is back

Steve781 said:


> CIA sponsored colour revolution!
> Just getting in before the Chinese posters do.


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## Sasquatch

@*Beidou2020 @Syama Ayas @ **terranMarine**https://defence.pk/members/beidou2020.151711/*

Have been banned for off topic posts/trolling, infractions have been handed out to other Chinese members, stick to the topic.


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## terranMarine

mike2000 is back said:


> Too many chinese wanting to immigrate here already(there are already many of them living and studying here). So not sure our government will agree to that. However i still think its better to welcome the chinese than islamists from the middle east.
> 
> 
> 
> We treat them nice. Reason they still long for our rule over them.



British politicians won't allow it, political suicide

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## jkroo

It's good to see these jokers played every year and see these old faces. Could they turn this march to a violent confilict?

I am here wait and see, nothing will happen and HongKong is still a properous city of China. 

It's weird Indians loved to learn our political issues but I suddenly know that many of them are desperate and can only cry here.

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## bsruzm

Hong Kong is an opportunity, great to observe, learn and practise.


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## TaiShang

jkroo said:


> It's good to see these jokers played every year and see these old faces. Could they turn this march to a violent confilict?
> 
> I am here wait and see, nothing will happen and HongKong is still a properous city of China.
> 
> It's weird Indians loved to learn our political issues but I suddenly know that many of them are desperate and can only cry here.



Before those people go extinct in a few years time (each "anniversary" their number is diminishing), we must study them carefully. Maybe, kidnap Joshua and keep him frozen in a laboratory to further study the type for the next few decade.





AndrewJin said:


> Supa Powans have inferior complex and white worship, in line with their colonial master about everything.
> 
> Back to topic, this so-called march attracted the least participants compared previous ones, number decreased dramatically. We will see more pro-Beijing camp legislators win in the next local election. (Now pro-Beijing legislators account for slightly less than two thirds.)



That fake country is a great sample for us about what not to be. Hence it serves a noble purpose.

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## jkroo

AndrewJin said:


> Supa Powans have inferior complex and white worship, in line with their colonial master about everything.
> 
> Back to topic, this so-called march attracted the least participants compared to previous ones, number decreased dramatically. They are now the biggest loser, next chief executive will be elected by old rules. We will see more pro-Beijing camp legislators win in the next local election. (Now pro-Beijing legislators account for slightly less than two thirds.)


Yes, yes. I am really not worry about anything from those people. Not a bit. Just have fun for what they talk about.
These jokers choose to don't accept democratic rules for election.  That's not bad, right? Everything goes on, one country two system. It's a real example. 




TaiShang said:


> Before those people go extinct in a few years time (each "anniversary" their number is diminishing), we must study them carefully. Maybe, kidnap Joshua and keep him frozen in a laboratory to further study the type for the next few decade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That fake country is a great sample for us about what not to be. Hence it serves a noble purpose.



Those sturdy protesters will throw themself to the dustbin in the end. We can count how many years they have, maybe no more than 10 years. 

I feel not good for talking about that country especially today I read some negative news of the country (the union carbide, sigh.). But many of them love to come here to kindly help us and be as a negative examples. That's also not bad. This is the real world.

OK, guys, let's take a deep breath and summon more things.

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## XiangLong

AndrewJin said:


> Supa Powans have inferior complex and white worship, in line with their colonial master about everything.
> 
> Back to topic, this so-called march attracted the least participants compared to previous ones, number decreased dramatically. They are now the biggest loser, next chief executive will be elected by old rules. We will see more pro-Beijing camp legislators win in the next local election. (Now pro-Beijing legislators account for slightly less than two thirds.)



The average temperature is over 30 degrees this week alone, I would like to see how many are able to keep up their so-called convictions before abandoning them for the comfort of their air-conditioned homes.

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## Jlaw

AndrewJin said:


> Supa Powans have inferior complex and white worship, in line with their colonial master about everything.
> 
> Back to topic, this so-called march attracted the least participants compared to previous ones, number decreased dramatically. They are now the biggest loser, next chief executive will be elected by old rules. We will see more pro-Beijing camp legislators win in the next local election. (Now pro-Beijing legislators account for slightly less than two thirds.)


they need to get rid of the two most hate anti China clown in HK legislator. One is 長毛 and the one is 光頭佬. There's also another condescending clown there but I forgot his name.

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## Keel

Jlaw said:


> they need to get rid of the two most hate anti China clown in HK legislator. One is 長毛 and the one is 光頭佬. There's also another condescending clown there but I forgot his name.



長毛






So many 光頭佬, which one?















XiangLong said:


> The average temperature is over 30 degrees this week alone, I would like to see how many are able to keep up their so-called convictions before abandoning them for the comfort of their air-conditioned homes.



From what I have been reading the same rally annually on July 1 in HK, the people on the streets are a mixture of many diversified interest groups such as:
The maids are fighting for increase in minimum pay
The gay and lesbian groups are asking for legalising their marriages
The handicaps are protesting for lack of social protection'
The minorities are voicing out for more government assistance
...

And the turnout this year is the lowest since HK returned to China @ less than 20K people on the streets





Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

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## Jlaw

Keel said:


> 長毛
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So many 光頭佬, which one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I have been reading the same rally annually on July 1 in HK, the people on the streets are a mixture of many diversified interest groups such as:
> The maids are fighting for increase in minimum pay
> The gay and lesbian groups are asking for legalising their marriages
> The handicaps are protesting for lack of social protection'
> The minorities are voicing out for more government assistance
> ...
> 
> And the turnout this year is the lowest since HK returned to China @ less than 20K people on the streets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding



Yup. that is one of many reasons why I always say immigration is bad. The minorities always ask for a handout because they are unable to function and compete in Chinese society. Most will end up being leeches to society and criminals.

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## Keel

China's vintage positions over the clowns:

1. The elected CE, and I believe in the appointment of many important positions in the government too have to be approved by China
2. Only the legal authorities in China have the right to change or to interprete the Basic Law
3. "1 country 2 systems" is to end 32 years later
4. Majority companies that are trading on HKSE are Chinese companies with their principal business activities conducting on the Mainland
5. China holds the supply of water, staple food and partial electricity supply to HK
6. China holds diplomacy and defense roles for HK
7. Mainland is the principal source of graduate students and faculty for HK universities
8, China has the say to designate HK as one of the offshore RMB markets
9. HK stock and financial market and tourism.retail busineses are dependent on China

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## Jlaw

Keel said:


> China's vintage positions over the clowns:
> 
> 1. The elected CE, and I believe in the appointment of many important positions in the government too have to be approved by China
> 2. Only the legal authorities in China have the right to change or to interprete the Basic Law
> 3. "1 country 2 systems" is to end 32 years later
> 4. Majority companies that are trading on HKSE are Chinese companies with their principal business activities conducting on the Mainland
> 5. China holds the supply of water, staple food and partial electricity supply to HK
> 6. China holds diplomacy and defense roles for HK
> 7. Mainland is the principal source of graduate students and faculty for HK universities
> 8, China has the say to designate HK as one of the offshore RMB markets
> 9. HK stock and financial market and tourism.retail busineses are dependent on China



But to these clowns it doesn't mater. As long as there is democrazy who the **** need water and food?

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## Keel

Jlaw said:


> But to these clowns it doesn't mater. As long as there is democrazy who the **** need water and food?



Agreed
what they are doing is to sabotage the HK administration and to derail its proper execution of government plans and policies in the name of democracy
If the people of HK are smart they should know who are causing the troubles
China gives them opportunities to work and to accumulate wealth
The clowns are ruining them

Who wants HK to fail?
Definitely NOT China, then who?





Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

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## TaiShang

*PLA holds military drill in Hong Kong*
July 4, 2015




The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Hong Kong Garrison started a live-fire exercise in Hong Kong suburb on Saturday.[Photo: Chinanews]

*The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Hong Kong Garrison started a live-fire exercise in Hong Kong suburb on Saturday, the first of its kind since 1997 that local residents have been invited to observe. @Chinese-Dragon *

At the Tsing Shan shooting range in the New Territories, soldiers with armored vehicles, anti-tank rockets and gunships from army, navy and air force of the garrison carried out a simulation of downtown Hong Kong defending.

Over 500 people from all walks of life observed the "Hong Kong Defender-2015C" exercise, which was part of the garrison's plan during this summer following two exercises in May and June.

Three arms of the PLA, army, navy and air force, have garrisoned the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region since the former British colony was handed over to China in 1997.

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## BuddhaPalm

Simulation of downtown defending = HK terrorists assault on government buildings, some HK police go rogue and PLA attack with WZ-10 combat helicopter and infantry fighting vehicle to restore peace.

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## TaiShang

The Hong Kong Garrison of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) holds a military drill in Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, south China, July 4, 2015. (Xinhua/Lui Siu Wai)

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## TaiShang



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## LowPost

Wondering what arms the opposing force is equipped with.


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## TaiShang

*PLA holds military drill in HK, locals invited to observe*
CCTV.com

07-04-2015 13:31 BJT

The People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison has held a military drill on Saturday. It's the first time that such an exercise has been open to the public.

A live ammunition exercise of the People’s Liberation Army in Hong Kong.

The scenario – a group of terrorists escape to the mountainous Castle Peak area. And the army and the air force try and eliminate them.

Six helicopters carry out a coordinated patrol. They fire once the terrorists appear.

Machine gun fire and missiles hit the targets precisely.

It’s a successful operation.






_The People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison has held a military drill on Saturday. It's the first time that such an exercise has been open to the public._

*This exercise is the largest ever live firing exercise the PLA has held in Hong Kong. The number of participants and the equipment used are unprecedented. The army used several advanced weapons in the drill. Besides the well-equipped helicopters, there were armored cars, mortars and anti-tank weapons as well.*

"This exercise carries the mission of defending Hong Kong and fighting external invasion. The air force and the ground force coordinate to complete the operation. We focus on the attack. This drill is just like an actual combat," said Li Weiya, deputy commander of PLA HK Garrison.

Since the handover in 1997, the central government has stationed a garrison of the PLA in Hong Kong to manage its defense affairs.






_The People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison has held a military drill on Saturday. It's the first time that such an exercise has been open to the public._

The troops conduct regular military exercises. But this is the first time that the drill was open to the public.

Observers say this was to let Hong Kong residents know more about the army and assure them of its ability to safeguard the region’s security.






_The People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison has held a military drill on Saturday. It's the first time that such an exercise has been open to the public._

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## VALKRYIE

These illustrations show how different Hong Kong thinks it is from mainland China

Annalisa Merelli
July 01, 2015

It’s no secret that people from Hong Kong see themselves as separate from the people of mainland China, even though the independently-administered city is meant to be absorbed fully by China in 2047. Last year’s so-called “Umbrella Movement” made that clear in the eyes of the rest of the world as well.

Hong Kongers, who sometimes refer to themselves as Hongkies, are proud of the differences between their lifestyles and habits and those of the mainland Chinese, and visiting mainlanders are often held up in Hong Kong for displaying what are considered poor manners.

Hong Kong design studio Local Studio has decided to sum up some of the differences between Mainland China and Hong Kong in a series of illustrations which, according to the website Shanghaiist, has gone viral. Titled “Hong Kong is not China”, and reminiscent of the the popular Paris vs New York tumblr(now a book), the illustrations juxtapose iconic elements of the two cultures to highlight the differences.

Some of the images are straightforward and factual, and while critical of the lack of freedom of speech in China, it is hard to argue that they don’t depict the reality of government and media in China and Hong Kong.


























Other illustrations, however, attack Chinese products and habits—reflecting a series of stereotypes that do little to dispel Hong Kongers’ reputation on the mainland as snobbish.

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## VALKRYIE

Some of the metaphoric images could be considered downright offensive.













There is one thing, however, the authors of the campaign believe they have in common with mainland China (and presumably, they are not happy about it):




These illustrations show how different Hong Kong thinks it is from mainland China - Quartz

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## 大汉奸柳传志

Well, the PLA think it is

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## TaiShang

*(Roy Liu / China Daily)*







Saturday, July 4, 2015, 14:10
*PLA holds military drill in Hong Kong, China*





*(Roy Liu / China Daily)*

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## Jlaw

rugering said:


> Wondering what arms the opposing force is equipped with.


yellow umbrellas and British flags. 

Yeah, they're fucked.

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> yellow umbrellas and British flags.
> 
> Yeah, they're fucked.



Opposing forces are definitely equipped with flags and stickers as well as a doze of confidence from British masters. Indian separatists, on the other, are equipped with real stuff and they lack a second passport to emigrate to UK

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## djsjs

joking....

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## cnleio

HongKong's food & water come from mainland of China, in ShenZhen i often see trucks with HongKong lience carring foods on roads.

Where they go ???

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## Economic superpower

China will only increase its control and influence over Hong Kong as the years go by.

The protests will only accelerate that process as China will gradually up the ante.

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## Edison Chen

Interesting pictures

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## XiangLong

Butthurt HK / British nationalists are butthurt! 

Awww... What's the matter? Angry that your so-called revolution crumbled before your very eyes, because your beloved Tiananmen 2.0 didn't take place as you had hoped?

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## kankan326

Wow. Super Hongkongers! Does Hongkong actually produce any thing? I never heard any famous brands from HK.


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## TaiShang



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## grandmaster

HK is not Vietnam

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## Edison Chen

TaiShang said:


>



Many Texans feel that the rest of states is a burden....All hail lone star republic！！

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## Srinivas

TaiShang said:


>



The maoist insurgency is not a separatist movement ..... The regions on the above pictures are showing regional sentiments to have their own states or Govt. is planning to create new states.

Nation can be one and cultures,languages can be different, I do not agree with the posters in this thread depicting Hongkong and China are different .... I agree on the civil rights movement of Hongkong.

If one has to divide regions based on the differences that exists between people then one has to divide upto street level.


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## Audio

Question:

If CCP is mentioned in both banners, why aren't there two identical symbols in each banner? And why is the same symbol used twice in China banner (1st and 3rd)?


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## AndrewJin



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## IR-TR

Quartz is extremely anti-China, pretty much anti any country that threatens America's preeminence. Many of those pictures are 'racist' or condescending against mainland people. Like the toilet bowls etc, or 'everybody HAS to watch tv'. About the chat apps and email, that's what one country two systems is about. When China becomes too powerful in the not too distant future, they'll just pressure the US and UK to stop this propaganda or face the economic consequences.

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## AndrewJin

IR-TR said:


> Quartz is extremely anti-China, pretty much anti any country that threatens America's preeminence. Many of those pictures are 'racist' or condescending against mainland people. Like the toilet bowls etc, or 'everybody HAS to watch tv'. About the chat apps and email, that's what one country two systems is about. When China becomes too powerful in the not too distanf future, they'll just pressure the US and UK to stop this propaganda or face the economic consequences.


Ironically, this thread was opened by a Viet, in line with their Yankee masters?

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## LowPost

Behold these machine guns. 

According to CCTV News Content the OpFor is a group of militants, so I imagine that they are better trained and equipped than these _separatists_ (couldn't find a nicer word ) . The enemy force could represent a company of veteran Boko Haram fighters which somehow managed to infiltrate HK in secret o:) or a private army of some Vladimir Makarov, ordered to spread terror among the inhabitants and sabotate government buildings. They're both better sparring partners than those lads that Jlaw mentioned

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## IR-TR

dichoi said:


> But Hongkong could be _Schweiz_; or _Suisse in Asia._



Hong Kong is an integral part of China. Why don't you give up a piece of your land to make it Switzerland. Singapore already fills that role, also vast majority Chinese.


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## Rasengan

The umbrella revolution was an epic flop, because the protests only generated a few thousand people on the streets of Hong Kong, which has a total population of 7 million residents. Hong Kong belongs to China and these rebellious fools will feel the full might of the law, when the administration will eventually absorb into China in 2047. In the coming decades, China must be careful because the wolves are prowling around its borders waiting to strike at the weakest points. However Pakistan will always support China and its interest, therefore we must fight the western powers together.



AndrewJin said:


> Ironically, this thread was opened by a Viet, in line with their Yankee masters?



Brother Jin, when a person feel subconsciously inferior to another individual, then they tend criticize and find faults of that person to feel much better about themselves.



cnleio said:


> HongKong's food & water come from mainland of China, in ShenZhen i often see trucks with HongKong lience carring foods on roads.
> 
> Where they go ???



The allocation of food and water which is distributed within Hong Kong comes from Mainland China. Most of Hong Kong's energy requirements also come from Mainland China, however these ungrateful rebels love to complain. Personally I find the behavior of some Hong Kong citizens disgusting, because they think that they are superior than their brothers in Mainland China. This group is in a minority which is supported by factions within the barrister community and western stooges.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Honk Kong was taken by the British after they forced opium onto the Qing dynasty.

When Imperial commissioner Lin Zexu ordered the destruction of the opium (which led to the opium wars), it took 500 laborers 23 days to destroy the illicit stock! The hearts of the Chinese people in those days wanted nothing but the downfall of the imperial British for crimes against the worlds oldest civilization.

Now look at this.










Dam right Chinese and Hong Kongers have a difference. At least with the sellout bunch that is.

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## StarCraft_ZT

VALKRYIE said:


>



Yes, China and Hong Kong are different systems, one is CPC, the other one is multi party system. So Hong Kong is not China. Vietnam is also communist party in control, so Vietnam is part of China.

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## one more bite

AndrewJin said:


> Ironically, this thread was opened by a Viet, in line with their Yankee masters?


You are absolutely right！

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## Lure

A lot of stereptypes about Chinese people. Almost auto-orientalist.

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## one more bite

驱逐香港20万越南人后代，恬不知耻，居然拿着中国国籍！在港越南裔真不知耻，登记成汉族，祖宗都不要了！
sorry , buddies with english discussing ， this is not for you

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## GoGetIt

Never mind


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## Jlaw

Audio said:


> Question:
> 
> If CCP is mentioned in both banners, why aren't there two identical symbols in each banner? And why is the same symbol used twice in China banner (1st and 3rd)?



HK one is wrong. It should be 崇洋的人


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## Gazi

What language Hong Kong people speak???

Mandarin or Cantonese


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## Jlaw

Gazi said:


> What language Hong Kong people speak???
> 
> Mandarin or Cantonese


manly cantonese but most have no issues understanding or speaking Mandarin if they have to


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## Gazi

Jlaw said:


> manly cantonese but most have no issues understanding or speaking Mandarin if they have to


This could be a note worthy Difference as majority of China speaks Mandarin especially in North AFAIK.


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## SQ8

Rather ignorant set of banners. I can understand the higher liberties the people in Hong Kong enjoy but as such they are the product of an occupation by the British. There is no need to be snotty about toilet usage in an attempt to distinguish on liberties.


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## empirefighter

Boring thread,most of HK people may donot like CCP ,but they never doubt their indentity.As a mainland Chinese,I love CCP. We had played that kind of political games in 1966-1976 ,all the people were crazy and took part in Cultural Revolution, we were too naive at that time and our society is tired of political movement after that,the HK and TW people were lack of this lesson,let them play political games by themselves,they will grow up one day ,when they are tired in the future,they will back to the Chinese traditional political way as we did. So we are not worried about HK political movements at all.

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## ChineseTiger1986

empirefighter said:


> Boring thread,most of HK people may donot like CCP ,but they never doubt their indentity.As a mainland Chinese,I love CCP. We had played that kind of political games in 1966-1976 ,all the people were crazy and took part in Cultural Revolution, we were too naive at that time and our society is tired of political movement after that,the HK and TW people were lack of this lesson,let them play political games by themselves,they will grow up one day ,when they are tired in the future,they will back to the Chinese traditional political way as we did. So we are not worried about HK political movements at all.



Actually, the first CR was messed up, but its initial motive was good, it was designed to counter against those new born elites and bureaucrats, but too bad it got hijacked by so many bad people.

A successful CR could have been the best movement to cleanse the corruption and bureaucracy.


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## TaiShang

rugering said:


> View attachment 235157
> 
> 
> Behold these machine guns.
> 
> According to CCTV News Content the OpFor is a group of militants, so I imagine that they are better trained and equipped than these _separatists_ (couldn't find a nicer word ) . The enemy force could represent a company of veteran Boko Haram fighters which somehow managed to infiltrate HK in secret o: ) or a private army of some Vladimir Makarov, ordered to spread terror among the inhabitants and sabotate government buildings. They're both better sparring partners than those lads that Jlaw mentioned



First scenario is OK but the second one? They should have chosen another name for the army leader, like John McCain.

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## CNwansui

Yet Canada is not a legal country because it's run neither by Indians nor speaks the latter's language.European thieves stole the continent from aborigines by killing them.


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## LowPost

TaiShang said:


> First scenario is OK but the second one? They should have chosen another name for the army leader, like John McCain.



This would be hilarious (don't mean to unnecessarily breed discord between China and the US, though), but you missed the point. The second option is a reference of mine to Vladimir Makarov, one of the antagonists from the Modern Warfare series of Call of Duty. Makarov, a Russian terrorist, masterminded countless acts of terrorism all over the world and he has a group of mercenaries which serves as his 'bodyguard' as far as I know and does the dirty work for himself. So I imagined that these mercenaries of a person like him was ordered to stage a terrorist attack in Hong Kong, the attempt went awry however and with nowhere left to go, they decided to retreat to Castle Peak to fight their last stand.

This is a speculation of whom the OpFor could possibly represent and their backstory.


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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> Opposing forces are definitely equipped with flags and stickers as well as a doze of confidence from British masters. Indian separatists, on the other, are equipped with real stuff and they lack a second passport to emigrate to UK


But they cannot fail as they have a brave young leader in Joshua Wong.

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## ahojunk

Jlaw said:


> But they cannot fail as they have a brave young leader in Joshua Wong.


I really like your sense of humor.
And had a good laugh!

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## AndrewJin

@Jlaw


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## TaiShang

*Shanghai-Hong Kong Gold Connect launched*
July 10, 2015
The Chinese Gold and Silver Exchange Society of Hong Kong and Shanghai Gold Exchange announced on Friday the official launch of a connectivity of gold markets in Shanghai and Hong Kong.

*The launch of the Shanghai-Hong Kong Gold Connect marked the deepening of mutual market connectivity between the two places from stock to commodity trading and further promotes their financial integration and development.*

This allows Hong Kong investors to trade on the main board and international board of the Shanghai Gold Exchange.

Eric Chui, CEO of Rise Hill Holdings Limited, which is a member of the Chinese Gold and Silver Exchange Society of Hong Kong, told Xinhua that this move can enhance service experience for investors from Hong Kong and Shanghai and reduce investment cost.

Chui said his company hoped to seize this opportunity of entering the Shanghai market and introduce their electronic trading platform and comprehensive service into the Chinese inland market, which can help investors from Hong Kong and Shanghai to understand the value of noble metal investment.

*The Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect was kicked off in Hong Kong and Shanghai at the same time on Nov. 17, 2014 as a major move of China's reform and opening up of its capital market. Further connectivity between the two places has been under discussion after the official launch of the stock link, and the Shanghai-Hong Kong Gold Connect is one such move.*

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## TaiShang

*CRRC rolls into record books with $800m Hong Kong MTR order*
By Chu Daye Source:Global Times Published: 2015-7-23 23:18:01

*Deal expected to showcase quality of Chinese rail transit*





The interior of a metro train produced by CRRC in Shenzhen, South China's Guangdong Province Photo: IC











Domestic bullet train producer CRRC Corp Ltd (CRRC) said one of its subsidiaries has won the biggest order ever for subway cars in China by snagging a contract worth 4.84 billion yuan ($779.7 million) to manufacture 93 trains for the Hong Kong transportation company MTR Corp. 

CSR Qingdao Sifang Locomotive & Rolling Stock Co, a CRRC subsidiary located in East China's Shandong Province, will assemble the cars, according to a CRRC filing Thursday to Hong Kong's stock exchange. 

The trains, which will enter service during 2018-23, will replace decades-old rolling stock running on four routes in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region such as the Kwun Tong Line and Tsuen Wan Line. 

Experts said the order will give a boost to China's exports of subway cars, a business that is contributing an increasing portion of profits for the newly merged train giant. 

"Metro trains have a lifespan of about 30 years. So the global market is big for providing replacements for the first generation of metro systems worldwide," Sun Zhang, a rail expert and professor at Shanghai Tongji University, told the Global Times Thursday.

CRRC was formed through the merger of State-owned train makers CSR Corp Ltd and China CNR Corp Ltd (CNR) in June. 

CNR announced an export contract on January 26 to sell 284 trains worth 4.12 billion yuan for the subway in Boston, Massachusetts. 

The deal was China's first foray into the US rail transit market.

"The Hong Kong deal demonstrates that the merger of CNR and CSR has strengthened the nation's hand in train exports," Sun said. 

CRRC has also exported metro trains to India and Turkey.

Buyers of urban rail cars want comfort, reliability and cost effectiveness, Sun said, noting that the requirements for urban rail transit equipment differ from those of high-speed trains, another competitive Chinese export. 

"I heard the new trains will be more spacious. That's good, because Hong Kong's population and its tourist arrivals have both kept increasing," a 20-something Hong Kong resident who declined to be identified told the Global Times Thursday. 

China has metro systems in more than 20 cities, so the nation's rolling stock producers can turn out models to cope with a variety of climate conditions, Sun noted. 

Urban transit is a fast-growing segment for CRRC. 

In CSR's 2014 annual report, the company said operating income stood at 119.7 billion yuan, up 20.5 percent year-on-year. The metro car section, however, grew about 49.5 percent, generating 12.39 billion yuan.

As the only subway operator in the world that makes money, MTR Corp has deep management expertise. It also operates subways in Beijing, Shenzhen, London and Stockholm. 

"A metro system combining the expertise of the seasoned metro operator and the quality of mainland-manufactured equipment in the global city of Hong Kong will send a message loud and clear to other cities around the world," Sun said.

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## VALKRYIE

Hong Kong-based broadcaster TVB issued an apology after hundreds of complaints came flooding over the use of a PRC flag to represent China in a documentary about World War II, at which point the flag did not yet exist.

The television station said it was "deeply sorry" for mistakenly using the flag of the People's Republic of China when identifying the Chinese army during the Battle of Taierzhuang, according to Hong Kong Free Press.

The 1938 battle was fought between armies of Japan and the Republic of China and was the first key Chinese victory of the Second World War.

TVB edited the animation using the Republic of China flag to represent the troops instead, after the local media authority received over 600 complaints about the error. Japan's flag was also replaced with that of the Imperial Japanese Army.





The documentary aired on a weekly series called Sunday Report ahead of the 70th anniversary of the end of World War II.

The news follows criticism over a Chinese-made movie being pushed out ahead of the anniversary which had also been accused of historical inaccuracy. The makers of the film, which covered the events surrounding the 1943 Cairo Conference, decided to use Chairman Mao as a main poster boy, despite the fact that he wasn't present at the historic summit.

[Image via HKFP]

Broadcaster apologizes for misuse of PRC flag in WW2 documentary: Shanghaiist


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## 70U63

(_big heart _but naive...) 




Hong Kong student leader Joshua Wong charged over protests | World news | The Guardian

_Agence France-Presse in Hong Kong_

_ Thursday 27 August 2015 09.32 BST Last modified on Friday 28 August 2015 00.01 BST _

_A Hong Kong student leader has said he is the target of a “political prosecution” after he was charged over protests that led to last year’s mass pro-democracy rallies._

_Joshua Wong, 18, who became the face of the democracy movement, was already due in court on Friday on separate charges of obstructing police at an earlier demonstration._

_The teenager and other activists have accused the authorities of a witch-hunt against those at the forefront of the so-called umbrella movement that brought parts of the city to a standstill for more than two months._

_Protesters called for fully free elections of the city’s next leader, in the face of a Beijing-backed political reform package under which candidates would have been vetted by a loyalist committee._

_That bill was vetoed in June in an unprecedented rebuke to Beijing, leaving the city politically polarised. _

_Wong was charged on Thursday with “unlawful assembly, and inciting others to take part in an unlawful assembly”. The charges, which could result in a sentence of up to five years, relate to a student protest on 26 September last year during which some climbed into a square that is part of the city’s government complex._

_Wong and other activists were arrested, sparking wider demonstrations which exploded two days later when police fired teargas to disperse the crowds. Thousands more took to the streets in the wake of what they saw as heavy-handed policing._

_“Today … is political prosecution,” said Wong before he entered a police station in the central neighbourhood of Wan Chai. “Being involved in the civic square action is the best mission I have made in the four years I’ve been involved in social student movements. I will not regret it … if I have to pay the price.”_

_Wong’s lawyer Michael Vidler confirmed later that the teen had been charged. “I think the whole rationale for proceeding at this stage, a year after the event, is totally flawed,” Vidler said. “In my view it’s a clear abuse of process.”_

_Another prominent student protester, Alex Chow, was charged with taking part in an unlawful assembly. Nathan Law, a student leader, was charged with inciting others to take part in an unlawful assembly. The three will have their charges heard at a magistrates court on 2 September._

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## Chinese-Dragon

We have to thank these disgusting vermin like Joshua Wong for completely disgracing the ENTIRE pro-democracy movement in HK.  Polls showed the vast majority of Hong Kongers are fed up of their disruptive behavior, and just want them to go away.

As for political persecution, sorry but the vast majority of us Hong Kongers voted for the pro-Beijing camp, in the last elections. If he can't handle OUR decision, that's his own problem, and he'll have plenty of time to think it over in jail.

I can't wait for the One Country Two Systems policy to be finished. HK government is already dominated by the pro-Beijing camp, guys like Joshua Wong know their time is running out.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We have to thank these disgusting vermin like Joshua Wong for completely disgracing the ENTIRE pro-democracy movement in HK.  Polls showed the vast majority of Hong Kongers are fed up of their disruptive behavior, and just want them to go away.
> 
> As for political persecution, sorry but the vast majority of us Hong Kongers voted for the pro-Beijing camp, in the last elections. If he can't handle OUR decision, that's his own problem, and he'll have plenty of time to think it over in jail.
> 
> I can't wait for the One Country Two Systems policy to be finished. HK government is already dominated by the pro-Beijing camp, guys like Joshua Wong know their time is running out.



Lets hope those naive losers receive the proper punishment

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## CNwansui

terranMarine said:


> Lets hope those naive losers receive the proper punishment


this guy is not that stupid as you think,he's smart.just like those protest movement leaders did in 1989,they enriched themselves by betraying own country and fooling ignorant college students to be sacrificial lambs.As their scheme breaks up,these chief originator would get enough money for rest of their lives,left followers standing there like a dumb

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## Jlaw

The HK inmates are looking forward meeting Joshua Wong

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> The HK inmates are looking forward meeting Joshua Wong



El manita?





Chinese-Dragon said:


> We have to thank these disgusting vermin like Joshua Wong for completely disgracing the ENTIRE pro-democracy movement in HK.  Polls showed the vast majority of Hong Kongers are fed up of their disruptive behavior, and just want them to go away.
> 
> As for political persecution, sorry but the vast majority of us Hong Kongers voted for the pro-Beijing camp, in the last elections. If he can't handle OUR decision, that's his own problem, and he'll have plenty of time to think it over in jail.
> 
> I can't wait for the One Country Two Systems policy to be finished. HK government is already dominated by the pro-Beijing camp, guys like Joshua Wong know their time is running out.



Even the so called student movement in Taiwan lost the luster. Now most people perceive them either as naive or political cannon-fodders and radical trouble makers.

That's why the textbook protest has ended in their defeat.

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## cirr

Jlaw said:


> The HK inmates are looking forward meeting Joshua Wong



Straight or gay inmates？

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## terranMarine

cirr said:


> Straight or gay inmates？


Bubba

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## Chinese-Dragon

Jlaw said:


> The HK inmates are looking forward meeting Joshua Wong



Unfortunately, they will probably keep him in protective custody for the entire duration of his jail term, since letting him loose in the general prison population would most likely end up with his intestines strewn across the walls.

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## powastick

Street protest are meaningless unless someone is willing to pay with blood and winning it.

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## Götterdämmerung

Putting him into jail doesn't help much. Just ruin him financially for the rest of his life by sentencing him to pay for the business losses he caused to the hundreds of store owners.

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## Economic superpower

China will regret putting him in jail as he will become a nuisance. The best way to deal with dissidents is to kill them.


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## Jlaw

Götterdämmerung said:


> Putting him into jail doesn't help much. Just ruin him financially for the rest of his life by sentencing him to pay for the business losses he caused to the hundreds of store owners.


I'm sure he will be like Chai Ling. He will get a free pass to the USA. He will be spreading lies about human rights/ democracy in the US. Maybe write a book but most importantly he will be on CIA payroll for life--or until he is no value to them.

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## Place Of Space

Götterdämmerung said:


> Putting him into jail doesn't help much. Just ruin him financially for the rest of his life by sentencing him to pay for the business losses he caused to the hundreds of store owners.



American pay for him, this is not a secret. This guy is too young, he is only 20 year old, very childish.


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## Götterdämmerung

Place Of Space said:


> American pay for him, this is not a secret. This guy is too young, he is only 20 year old, very childish.



I read somewhere that business losses were in the hundreds of millions. Imagine the US has to dole out another few hundred million $$$ for a failed coup and for backing the wrong horse. That would make them vomit blood.

But do you think that the US would back a wrong horse twice by bailing him out with more money? See, that guy will never have a happy day in his life again if he is senenced to pay the losses.

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## Place Of Space

Götterdämmerung said:


> I read somewhere that business losses were in the hundreds of millions. Imagine the US has to dole out another few hundred million $$$ for a failed coup and for backing the wrong horse. That would make them vomit blood.
> 
> But do you think that the US would back a wrong horse twice by bailing him out with more money? See, that guy will never have a happy day in his life again if he is senenced to pay the losses.



I can't understand the American. They complain Chinese charge too much of renting them a Panda (0.5 million dollar per year), but being generous to pay this guy huge amount money. Hell, can this guy give the similar pleasure comparing to a Panda?

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## Götterdämmerung

Place Of Space said:


> I can't understand the American. They complain Chinese charge too much of renting them a Panda (0.5 million dollar per year), but being generous to pay this guy huge amount money. Hell, can this guy give the similar pleasure comparing to a Panda?



To understand them, you need to know among other things this:

Astounding increase in antidepressant use by Americans - Harvard Health Blog - Harvard Health Publications

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## ahojunk

This idiot Joshua was used, abused and now discarded by the Americans.

Why? He is a spent force with zero value.

No one is stupid enough to bet on a losing horse!

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## XiangLong

Having a guy like him live in disgrace for the rest of his miserable life is better than any death or life sentence. Actively persecuting him via prison sentence or whatever, will only make him a martyr in the eyes of similar delusional idiots. Burst their f*cking delusional bubbles in every way possible. The best way would be to cut him loose and see how well he will do with his future career, or better yet, let him go f*ck off to the UK, as he seems to like the English past so much, and let him become a nobody there.

Anyone remember that other loser, Chen Guangcheng back in 2012? Oh, how he was scawwed to be treated at a Chinese hospital instead of an ''international''-run medical center, because he was scawwed that those scawwy authorities would otherwise get him! Same crap when he insisted on being a teacher at the New York University's campus in Shanghai instead of those scawwy Chinese universities in the same city, because those scawwy Chinese police might have otherwise gotten him!  Seriously, and this guy was a ''lawyer'' ffs?!?! Well, we gave him what he wanted! Now he can leech off the Americans forever and reap meaningless awards for the rest of his life! How long will it take before he no longer wants to stay a leech and yearn to return to China? You know, like that other traitor before him, Hu Na? 

Speaking of the devil herself, does anyone remember our other guest star of the evening, Hu Na? That tennis player who betrayed her own country, because she considered herself quote ''The best tennis player in Asia and wanted to challenge big stars like Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova'', so the best way to do this, was to defect? What? You didn't get further than third round in Wimbledon 1985? That's a shame... But what's this? Now you want to mortgage your ''freedom'' for $$$ in China.... AGAIN?

Chinese Athlete Defected to the US in the 80s Returns to China – chinaSMACK

Chinese tennis star who came in from the cold - Telegraph

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## esolve

before 2000, Hong Kong has been the third largest pop culture exporter, next to the US and UK.
its movies were sweeping the world.


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## Chinese-Dragon

And the point of this thread is?

Hong Kong movies had a great golden age (before), but nowadays I tend to prefer Mainland movies.


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## esolve

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And the point of this thread is?
> 
> Hong Kong movies had a great golden age (before), but nowadays I tend to prefer Mainland movies.



nowadays, Hong Kong movies are game over


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## Chinese-Dragon

esolve said:


> nowadays, Hong Kong movies are game over



Some are still not bad, but the good ones are usually only for the domestic market, not overseas markets.


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## Emperor Modi

India is still the biggest.
Everybody practices Yoga and uses ZERO every single day!
HK should learn from us.


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## Shak_ed

*HK fined by Fifa for fans booing Chinese anthem*

5 hours ago
From the sectionChina







The Hong Kong Football Association (HKFA) has been fined $40,000 Hong Kong dollars ($5,160; £3,400) by Fifa after its fans booed the Chinese national anthem during a match last month.

An object was also thrown onto the pitch during the World Cup qualifier against Qatar.

Fifa, football's governing body, previously warned the HKFA over booing.

The anthem has been shared by Hong Kong and mainland China since the former returned to Beijing's control in 1997.

But anti-Beijing feeling has increased in Hong Kong in the wake of large protests last year against central government plans to impose candidate lists for elections in the territory.




Image copyrightAFP/Getty
Image captionThe booing was apparently directed at Beijing's political control rather than the team's poor performance - they lost the Qatar game 2-3
Noting that the object thrown onto the pitch, thought to have been acarton of lemon tea, was an aggravating factor in the punishment, spokeswoman for the HKFA Sarah Lee said: "We will try our best to avoid such incidents in future."

"We don't plan to punish fans. What we'll focus on is to encourage them not to boo," Ms Lee added, stressing that the football association wanted to encourage a positive atmosphere in which fans cheered the home team.

A statement by the HKFA said Fifa has warned it that "any further infringements will lead to more severe sanctions," asking fans to "refrain from such action at all future matches" to avoid additional punishment.

The association previously said that it would be "disappointed" if Fifa punished them for the booing on 8 September, which it later blamed on "a small minority of fans".

Hong Kong's next international match is against Myanmar on 7 November, followed by a home game against mainland China on 17 November - likely to be of particular concern to organisers given the tensions involved.

HK fined by Fifa for fans booing Chinese anthem - BBC News


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## EAsian

Most of hongkongers are traitors and westerner worshipers .Part of the reason is Southerners' caracter and Culture,and the
colonial education they have received.

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## Shak_ed

@AndrewJin @TaiShang @Martian2 @Shotgunner51 @cirr @cnleio @FairAndUnbiased @tranquilium @Chinese Bamboo @Chinese-Dragon



EAsian said:


> Most of hongkongers are traitors and westerner worshipers .Part of the reason is Southerners' caracter and Culture,and the
> colonial education they have received.


*You occupied their land. You are invaders...Chinese can live like slave and without freedom, HK cannot. *
*Chinese even have to take permission from government before farting, honk kong are not used to such setup.*


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## EAsian

You got banned so quick?LOL.

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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong to Play Key Role under Belt and Road Initiative: Chief Executive*
2015-10-29 

As the "superconnector" between the Chinese mainland and the rest of the world, Hong Kong has long been adept at building bridges and will play a key role under the Belt and Road Initiative, Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying said on Thursday.

Hong Kong can serve as a hub for cooperation, creating opportunities for youth through education and exchanges, expanding cultural ties and laying the solid foundation for mutual understanding along the Belt and Road corridor, Leung said at a roundtable titled "Hong Kong: Unleashing the potential of Belt and Road."

Leung stressed that Hong Kong is a premier fundraising hub and can offer multiple channels of financing. "As the world's largest offshore renminbi center, and the first place outside the mainland to develop a renminbi bond market, Hong Kong is also the place to find liquidity in renminbi," he added.

Pang Yiu-kai, chairman of Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce, echoed Leung's words, saying Hong Kong stands out in the Belt and Road Initiative thanks to its proximity to the countries along the Belt and Road corridor.

Hong Kong is strategically located on the East-West route, within five hours' flying time of half the world's population. More than 100 airlines operate some 1,100 flights every day between Hong Kong and about 180 destinations worldwide.

Equally well-connected, Hong Kong port serves more than 500 destinations worldwide. "Hong Kong can facilitate the flow of goods and people across the Belt and Road," Pang said.

Victor Fung, Fung Group Chairman, said as a superconnector in global supply chain, if Hong Kong can grasp the opportunities brought by the Belt and Road Initiative, the region will enjoy promising prospects.

The roundtable event, held by the China Daily, brings together more than 200 government officials, consul-generals and industry elites from Hong Kong and abroad.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Nice CY Leung. 

Much better than all the previous guys.

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## Aepsilons

Hong Kong Disneyland faces some stiff competition for the tourism dollar when Shanghai Disney opens its doors in June. The mainland park will be three times the size of Hong Kong’s offering and boast a host of unique attractions – although the Lantau version has expansion plans of its own.

Here’s our tale of two Disneys.



An aerial image taken last October shows the Enchanted Storybook Castle under construction at the Shanghai Disneyland Resort. Photo: Xinhua

*SHANGHAI*
“Authentically Disney, yet distinctively Chinese.” That’s the description of Shanghai Disneyland, the mainland’s first and the world’s sixth Disney Theme Park.

The park is an important investment for both Walt Disney Co and the Shanghai government as up to 30 million visitors are expected each year at the world’s biggest tourist market.

“The Shanghai government and Disney are trying to make the project an envy of the world,” said an executive of a service provider that has a global partnership with Walter Disney.

“In short, all the things available in all the other five Disney parks will be seen in the Shanghai park. But not all things in Shanghai can be found anywhere else.”

The US$5.5 billion investment in the Shanghai venture is estimated to drive about 30 per cent of Disney Theme Park profit growth over the next five years, according to a UBS report on China’s travel market last year.

Ticket prices have not been confirmed, but there has been speculation they will be between 400 yuan and 500 yuan.

Aiming to mainly attract families with children from throughout China, the resort will adopt different prices for different groups of people, Shanghai’s tourism bureau head Yang Jinsong said earlier last year.



A worker pushes a cart as the Cinderella Castle is constructed on the background in Shanghai this month. Photo: AFP

Recruitment and staff training is now under way. The resort has already employed more than 1,500 local staff, and thousands of more jobs are expected to be created in the following months to support the start of operation.

To give locals a taste of Disney, a flagship merchandise store was opened at Lujiazui, Pudong, last May and is the largest of its kind around the world, offering more than 2,000 products from clothing, bags and stationery to smartphone covers.

City officials also plan to create synergy between the Disneyland and other mega entertainment complexes including the 3 billion yuan Polar Ocean Park developed by Haichang in Nanhui.

Officials said that tickets to the two theme parks could be offered to non-local tourists in a package to achieve a mutually beneficial development and a win-win scenario.

“The Shanghai Disney park is likely to usher in a large number of high-end commercial and residential projects in the neighbouring areas,” said Joe Zhou, head of research in Shanghai for global property consultancy JLL.

“It is highly expected that the area of Chuansha where Disneyland is based will become a new investment magnet with an influx of population.”



An artist's impression of Shanghai Disney Resort, which is eventually expected to attract 30 million visitors a year. Photo: Disney Parks

Industry insiders expect about 15 million people to visit the resort in the first year, and a yearly visiting population of 25 to 30 million is projected when operation matures.

Among the major attractions, the Enchanted Storybook Castle is believed to be an ace card for the Shanghai theme park, with the tallest, biggest and most complex Disney castle ever built.

A golden finial will be installed on top of the tallest of the castle’s eight towers. The castle will also be the first to represent all the princesses in the Disney pantheon.

The resort’s other big draws will include the company’s first pirate-themed land and the longest parade route of any of the Disney parks.

Visitors can also expect attractions based on the Star Wars franchise and Marvel Comics superheroes, including Spider-Man and Iron Man.

Disney chief Bob Iger previously said that the park would be “authentically Disney and distinctively Chinese”.

“We are building something truly special here in Shanghai that not only showcases the best of Disney’s storytelling but also celebrates and incorporates China’s incredibly rich heritage to create a one-of-a-kind destination that will delight and entertain the people of China for generations to come,” Iger said.

One section of the theme park will feature a Disneytown tailored to the shopping, dining and entertainment needs of Chinese visitors with a 3000 sqm World of Disney store, two hotels, and a 40-hectare Wishing Star Park with natural scenery. A garden mosaic will depict the 12 animals of the Chinese zodiac using Disney characters.

Huang Shilin, a 33-year-old mother of two children in Hangzhou, Zhejiang province, said she would definitely consider Shanghai Disneyland as a top option because of its convenience and price.

“Who will go to Hong Kong Disneyland when we have one at our door? Even if we want to visit a foreign Disney park, I will go to Tokyo, which many of my friends recommended,” she said.

She said compared with Hong Kong, a visit to Shanghai’s resort would obviously cost much less. “Hong Kong is more expensive in every regard, and hotel rooms are not as spacy and new as on the mainland,” she said.



A Star Wars Fans parade at Hong Kong Disney Land last July. Photo: Handout

*HONG KONG*
Shanghai Disneyland may well be about three times the size of the Hong Kong site, but local tourism industry experts do not believe it will be a simple case of “the bigger, the better” when it comes to attracting visitors.

Just this week Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development Greg So Kam-leung emphasised that Hong Kong Disneyland was positioned for a different market as it had more international features.

“Of course [the opening of Shanghai Disneyland] will have some effect on the Hong Kong Disneyland” he said.

“[But] Shanghai Disneyland highlights more Chinese characteristics ... [Hong Kong is an] international playground.”

The Hong Kong home to Mickey Mouse had received more than 50 million visitors since it first opened in 2005. In its glory days between 2010 and 2013, the park experienced double-digit growth in visitor numbers, while it slowed to 1.4 per cent in 2014 with 7.5 million people visiting the park — still a record high.

Despite the slowdown, Hong Kong Disneyland remains extremely profitable. Its net profit jumped 36 per cent to HK$332million in 2014 from the prior year, while its revenue hit a new high at HK$5,466 million with a 12 per cent growth from the previous year.

However, a visit to the theme park is not cheap, as the HK$539 admission fee for adults is 40 per cent higher than its local rival Ocean Park’s equivalent offering and doubles the prices of its most mainland peers. 

Despite the slowdown, Hong Kong Disneyland remains extremely profitable. Photo: SCMP

Although it’s only less than six months before the official launch of the Pudong-based park, some keen mainland Disney fans have no intention to defer their trips to Hong Kong, as many of them see the new park as another opportunity for a Disney experience, not an alternative.

Meanwhile, the Lantau-based park, with roughly half of its revenue contributed by mainland tourists at present, has stepped up its efforts to lure local and oversea tourists in response to the potential decline of mainland tourists.

Iron Man Experience, a new attraction to be launched in Tomorrowland late this year, will show the Marvel hero Tony Stark fly all the way from the park to Victoria Harbour, where he will battle along the city’s main roads.

Fairy Tale Forest, which opened last December, draws on the power of the Disney princesses, with re-enactments of well-known scenes from five classic Disney princess stories.

A Disneyland spokesperson said it was specially designed for Hong Kong site, in order to cater Asian tourists’ addiction of taking selfies, “especially those from Southeast Asia,” she said.

The spokesperson said the size of the park had already been expanded by a 25 per cent after the establishments of three new areas in the past few years. A new hotel with 750 rooms is expected to open in 2017.



A new hotel with 750 rooms is expected to open at Hong Kong Disneyland in 2017. Photo: SCMP

“The resort is committed to continuously introducing new and innovative experiences to delight guests that visit from around the world,” a spokesperson said.

So told lawmakers this week the government was in talks with Walt Disney, the park’s US partner which holds a 48 per cent stake, to further expand its site.

Meanwhile, mainland tourists told the _Post_ that Hong Kong Disney remained attractive to visit, due to the drawcards of Hong Kong’s infrastructure, climate and other leisure activities.

Wong Jie-ju, 40, mother of a 10-year-old primary school boy from Harbin, Heilongjiang province, said:

“What makes Hong Kong special is that mums could also have fun with shopping when kids enjoy fairytales at the park.”

Despite many analysts expecting that visitors from the northern part of China will be inevitably be absorbed by the Shanghai park, benefited by shorter distances, Wong, who is from the northernmost province on the mainland said that the city’s warm weather in winter was “the most appealing reason” for her to visit Hong Kong.

“It is minus thirty degrees [Celsius] in Harbin now,” she said.

“It’s not something that you can only choose one,” said Lu Mei-yin, 45, a graphic designer from the northern coastal city Qingdao. She took her 11 year-old daughter to the park last week.

“It’s very easy to for us to visit Shanghai. We will definitely go later,” she said. “We have heard a lot about [Hong Kong Disneyland] since she was little.”

Lu, who was on her first visit to Hong Kong, was also amazed by its well-equipped infrastructure and the shopping.

“There are more things to do in Hong Kong, as well as other famous attractions like Victoria Peak,” she said.



Once country, two Disneys: Click here to view the view the ful-size infographic






Reference: SCMP
Retrieved online -- http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...-two-disneys-can-shanghai-and-hong-kong-theme


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## Hamartia Antidote

Tesla's Autopilot Is Finally Everywhere After Hong Kong Approval





A member of the media test drives a Tesla Model S car equipped with Autopilot in Palo Alto, California, U.S. (David Paul Morris/Bloomberg)

On Monday, Tesla Motors'TSLA +3.68% Autopilot, a semi-autonomous driving feature, which includes assisted steering and lane changing, and automatic parallel parking, is now used in all markets where the electric car maker opened up, after Tesla Model S drivers in Hong Kong found they could use the feature with its latest software update.

Hong Kong was the last market for Tesla to approve the Autopilot feature, after Japan approved it in January. When Tesla rolled out its Autopilot in October, its CEO Elon Musktweeted that only Japan did not approve the Autopilot feature yet.


But a month later, two of its features – Autosteer and Auto Lane Change, were disabled in Hong Kong because it was “not yet approved,” said the city’s Transportation Department.

“[The Transportation Department] has carefully assessed the performance of Autosteer and Auto Lane Change features (that might create safety hazards) and sought clarifications from Tesla,” responded the Transportation Department to an e-mailed inquiry.

This was surprising to many Tesla drivers, including Locky Law, the Tesla owners’ representative ofCharged Hong Kong, a local charity promoting electric vehicles. “It’s a safety feature, not a safety hazard,” he said. “Now, the safest car in the world just got safer in Hong Kong.”

With the use of Model S cars’ radar, cameras and ultrasound sensors, the electric vehicle can assist the driver with steering in highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings, assist in moving into the next lane, and automatic parallel and perpendicular parking, among other new features and improvements.


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## Hamartia Antidote

from 4 months ago in Hong Kong





in mainland China




hmm...why is he in a right-hand drive car?


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## That Guy

The current version of the autopilot is only meant for highways, and parking, so its very limited. Having said that, it's a good real world test for self-driving cars, and is paving the way for public acceptance of the concept.


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## CountStrike




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## jhungary

Hamartia Antidote said:


> from 4 months ago in Hong Kong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in mainland China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm...why is he in a right-hand drive car?



Mainland China allow both Right and Left hand drive registration, there were a large amount of imported vehicle from Hong Kong and Macau.

However, they only follow Left hand Drive Rule

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## third eye

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-36549266

One of five Hong Kong booksellers who disappeared last year says* he was forced by Chinese agents into a confession of "illegal trading".*

Lam Wing Kee was seized in the Chinese city of Shenzhen last October.

*He and the four other men worked at a publishing house that sold books critical of China's leaders.*

Mr Lam said *a confession broadcast on Chinese television in February, featuring four of the men, had been scripted.*

"It was a show, and I accepted it," he told a news conference on Thursday, according to the South China Morning Post.

"They gave me the script. I had to follow the script. If I did not follow it strictly, they would ask for a retake."

HK booksellers 'author' attacks China

Four of the men from Mighty Current publishing house, Mr Lam, Gui Minhai, Lui Bo and Cheung Jiping, gave details of their alleged offences during their appearance on Phoenix TV in February.

Lam Wing Kee returned to Hong Kong on Tuesday. Only one of the men has yet to return from the mainland.

*Some people in Hong Kong believe the four were detained by China because of a book about President Xi Jinping.*

They said they had sold 4,000 "unauthorised" books to 380 customers in mainland China, Phoenix TV reported.

*Mighty Current publishing house disappearances*





1. Lui Bo, general manager. *Went missing*: Shenzhen, 15 October 2015*Returned*: March 2016

2. Cheung Jiping, business manager. *Went missing*: Dongguan, 15 October*Returned*: March 2016

3. Gui Minhai, co-owner. *Went missing*: Thailand, 17 October *Still missing*

4. Lam Wing Kee, manager. *Went missing*: Shenzhen, 23 October *Returned*: June 2016

5. Lee Bo, shareholder. *Went missing*: 30 December - he says from the mainland, Mr Lam says it was from Hong Kong *Returned*: March 2016





Public confessions have long been a part of China's criminal law, but experts say many confessions are forced.

In the news conference, Mr Lam also said:


he was arrested in Shenzhen, a southern city on the mainland, before being held overnight
he was then blindfolded and put on a train for up to 14 hours to the city of Ningbo
while there, he was kept in a small room by himself, and made to sign a document agreeing he would not contact his family or a lawyer
the Chinese authorities had asked him to return to the mainland and hand over disks containing the names of people who had bought the books - he said he would not now do so
he spoke out as he was the only one of the five men with no relatives on the mainland. "If I myself, being the least vulnerable among the five booksellers, remained silent, Hong Kong would become hopeless," he said
The defiant bookseller's bombshell revelations electrified the journalists in the room, as well as social media in Hong Kong.

*At the scene: Juliana Liu, BBC News, Hong Kong*




Image captionLam Wing Kee was surrounded by reporters as he gave details of his detention
No-one had expected him to tell all.

Besides Gui Minhai, who remains in custody, Mr Lam was the last of the associates of the Mighty Current publishing house to be released from detention.

The others - Lee Bo, Lui Bo and Cheung Jiping - had all been released much earlier and said little about their time in mainland China.

They had all decided it was better, perhaps safer, to stay silent.

But Mr Lam chose a different route.

He decided to take a public stand, he said, because he wants Hong Kong people to defend the system that separates this city from China.

*Under Hong Kong law, Chinese police do not have jurisdiction in Hong Kong, which is governed under the principle of "One Country, Two Systems".*

But the case has sparked international concern that China could be attempting to rein in freedom of expression in Hong Kong.

China's foreign ministry said its officials would not behave illegally and urged other countries not to meddle in its affairs.

Hong Kong's government said in a statement "that the police are now proactively contacting Mr Lam himself to understand more and will take appropriate follow-up action".

It added that any evidence of intervention by Chinese law enforcement agencies in Hong Kong would be "unacceptable".

"Lam Wing Kee has blown apart the Chinese authorities' story," Mabel Au, director of Amnesty International Hong Kong, said.

"He has exposed what many have suspected all along - that this was a concerted operation by the Chinese authorities to go after the booksellers."


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## F-22Raptor

HONG KONG — Blindfolded and handcuffed, the bookseller was abducted from Hong Kong’s border with mainland China and taken to a cell, where he would spend five months in solitary confinement, watched 24 hours a day by a battery of Chinese guards.

Even the simple act of brushing his teeth was monitored by minders, who tied a string to his toothbrush for fear he might try to use it to harm himself. They wanted him to identify anonymous authors and turn over data on customers.

“I couldn’t call my family,” the man, Lam Wing-kee, said on Thursday. “I could only look up to the sky, all alone.”

Months after he and four other booksellers disappeared from Hong Kong and Thailand, prompting international concern over what critics called a brazen act of extralegal abduction, Mr. Lam stood before a bank of television cameras in Hong Kong and revealed the harrowing details of his time in detention.

“It can happen to you, too,” said Mr. Lam, 61, who was the manager of Causeway Bay Books, a store that sold juicy potboilers about the mainland’s Communist Party leadership. “I want to tell the whole world: Hong Kongers will not bow down to brute force.”

Although Mr. Lam’s assertions could not be immediately confirmed, his revelations contradicted Beijing’s claims that the booksellers had voluntarily entered the mainland to cooperate with an investigation by the Chinese authorities.

One of the men, Gui Minhai, vanished from his seaside apartment in Pattaya, Thailand, in October. Another, Lee Bo, a British citizen, disappeared from the streets of Hong Kong in December.

Mr. Lam’s account highlights the lengths to which the government of President Xi Jinping is willing to go to silence critics outside mainland China — at the risk of damaging its standing on the international stage.

To back up the government’s claims that the booksellers had voluntarily entered China, state-run television broadcast confessions by the five men; Mr. Gui, for example, tearfully said he had returned to China to face justice for his role in a fatal 2003 hit-and-run car accident in the Chinese coastal city of Ningbo.

Mr. Lam said his own words — that he had broken mainland law by publishing salacious books about Chinese leaders — had been crafted by the authorities but that he had no choice but to cooperate.

“It was a show, and I accepted it,” he said of his confession. “I had to follow the script. If I did not follow it strictly, they would ask for a retake.”

His revelations open a rare window into the workings of China’s security apparatus, which frequently uses forced confessions by lawyers, rights advocates and even celebrities to sway public opinion and justify the detentions of those who have dared to defy the party.

Mr. Lam’s claims are also likely to confirm the worst fears of Hong Kong residents, who say that Beijing has been intensifying efforts to erode the prodigious liberties enjoyed by the former British colony since it was returned to China in 1997.

“Lam Wing-kee has blown apart the Chinese authorities’ story,” Mabel Au, Amnesty International’s director in Hong Kong, said in a statement. “He has exposed what many have suspected all along: that this was a concerted operation by the Chinese authorities to go after the booksellers.”

The booksellers were key players in an industry that produces racy, rumor-filled books focused on the sex lives and power games of China’s top leaders. Although such books are banned on the mainland, where the message about politics and politicians is controlled, they are eagerly sought by visitors to Hong Kong, who return home to China with the books stowed in their luggage.

In the months since Mr. Lam and his colleagues disappeared, the industry has fallen on hard times. Causeway Bay Books has closed, and many Hong Kong bookstores have pulled titles about Chinese politics from their shelves.

The disappearances shocked people in Hong Kong and reverberated internationally. Many saw the episode as an expansion of China’s authoritarian legal system beyond its borders, in clear violation of the “one country, two systems” framework that allows Hong Kong to maintain a high degree of autonomy from Beijing.

Thousands of people took to the streets of Hong Kong to demand the booksellers’ release. Diplomats from Britain, the European Union and the United States also registered concern.

Three of the men, including Mr. Lee, have since been allowed to visit Hong Kong but later returned to the mainland. During their visits, they refused to publicly discuss the details of their disappearances. Mr. Gui, who holds a Swedish passport, is the only one still in custody.

Mr. Lam’s ordeal began on Oct. 24, during what he said was a routine trip to see his girlfriend on the mainland. As he crossed the border at the Chinese city of Shenzhen, he said he was seized by security personnel. Blindfolded and with his hands bound, he was put on a train that traveled hundreds of miles north to Ningbo.

The next few months, he said, were spent in a dingy cell, where he signed away his right to a lawyer and the right to contact his family. He said he was questioned 20 to 30 times about his role in Hong Kong’s publishing industry.

At one point, he said he was forced to sign a confession that incriminated Mr. Gui, saying his colleague had orchestrated the unlawful sale of books that harmed Chinese society.

He said the cell’s furniture was covered in padded fabric, an apparent attempt to prevent him from committing suicide. After about five months, he was moved to an apartment.

“They wanted to lock you up until you go mad,” he said.

On Thursday, Mr. Lam told reporters that Mr. Lee had told him privately that he, too, was taken to China against his will. Mr. Lam said Mr. Lee was able to get him the equivalent of about $15,000, for living expenses and as compensation for the loss of his job after the bookstore closed.

Mr. Lee did not respond to a request for comment.

The authorities apparently thought that Mr. Lam would continue to cooperate. He said they let him travel to Hong Kong on Tuesday after he promised to return to the mainland with a hard-drive full of information on customers.

Instead, Mr. Lam decided to meet with the news media. “I dare not go back,” he said. “I don’t plan on setting foot in mainland China ever again.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/asia/hong-kong-bookseller-lam-wing-kee.html?_r=0


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## ahojunk

Aha, another dubious piece from NYT that is to sensationalize.

No wonder, they are banned in mainland China.

When I saw it's from NYT, I just skipped it to save my time.

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## Nan Yang

And the saga continues......

*Bookseller Lam ‘brainwashed me’, says mainland ‘girlfriend’
*
http://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1267243-20160619.htm

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## TaiShang

2016-07-01 09:26:59 CRIENGLISH.com 





Hong Kong celebrates the 19th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) on Friday, July 1st, 2016. Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying said Hong Kong needs to diversity its industries to maintain sustainable development, create upward opportunities for youth, and deepen relations with the mainland. [Photo: CRIENGLISH.com/Li Jing] 

Hong Kong Chief Executive CY Leung has urged its people to seize the opportunities provided by national strategies.

He was speaking at a ceremony marking the 19th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

To mark the occasion, a flag-raising ceremony was held at Golden Bauhinia Square in Wan Chai, followed by a sea parade and a fly-past.

In his speech commemorating the 19th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong SAR, CY Leung looked back over what had been achieved during his term in office, such as keeping inflation and the unemployment rate at a low level, as well as being able to improve housing.

But he admits Hong Kong is facing many challenges, and needs to transform traditional industries.

"These industries must move towards high value-added services if we are to raise the income level of the Hong Kong people. This is especially true for the tourism industry. Second, we should abandon the mindset of resting on our laurels. We should nurture emerging industries to enhance the upward social mobility of our young people, and to create diversified and better jobs."

CY Leung also encouraged people in Hong Kong to tap into opportunities provided by national strategies.

"Over the past 30 years or so, thanks to the opening up and reform of the Mainland, many Hong Kong wage earners have become business owners, and small enterprises have developed into large national enterprises. In the coming 30 years or so, Hong Kong's new generation can take advantage of overseas opportunities arising from the Belt and Road initiative, in addition to those in the Mainland. The young generation will be able to further expand Hong Kong enterprises into global enterprises. "

Leung said the government would continue to implement the "one country, two systems", "Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong", and a high degree of autonomy, in accordance with the Basic Law. He said the government would also continue to facilitate and promote communication, and co-operation of various sectors and political parties in Hong Kong with the Central Authorities and the mainland, and deepen mutually beneficial relationships between the two sides.





Hong Kong celebrates the 19th anniversary of the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) on Friday, July 1st, 2016. Hong Kong SAR Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying said Hong Kong needs to diversity its industries to maintain sustainable development, create upward opportunities for youth, and deepen relations with the mainland. [Photo: CRIENGLISH.com/Li Jing]

@Chinese-Dragon 
_
When will we the island people start to celebrate? _

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## TaiShang

*Open day marks HK return anniversary*




Soldiers of Hong Kong Garrison of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) perform during the open day in south China's Hong Kong, July 1, 2016. To celebrate the 19th anniversary of Hong Kong's return to the motherland, Hong Kong Garrison of PLA held an open day, allowing local residents to visit their barracks on Friday. (Xinhua/Liu Yun)




Girls pose for pictures in front of a gunship of Hong Kong Garrison of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) during the open day in south China's Hong Kong, July 1, 2016. To celebrate the 19th anniversary of Hong Kong's return to the motherland, Hong Kong Garrison of PLA held an open day, allowing local residents to visit their barracks on Friday. (Xinhua/Liu Yun)





The military band of Hong Kong Garrison of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) perform during the open day in south China's Hong Kong, July 1, 2016. To celebrate the 19th anniversary of Hong Kong's return to the motherland, Hong Kong Garrison of PLA held an open day, allowing local residents to visit their barracks on Friday. (Xinhua/Wang Shen)




Local residents visit Shunde Missle Frigate of Hong Kong Garrison of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) during the open day in south China's Hong Kong, July 1, 2016. To celebrate the 19th anniversary of Hong Kong's return to the motherland, Hong Kong Garrison of PLA held an open day, allowing local residents to visit their barracks on Friday. (Xinhua/Liu Yun)

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## jkroo

Congratulations 

but also get ready for the haters.

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## barbarosa

Congratulation to Chines friends.

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## Nan Yang

*Joshua Wong found guilty of unlawful assembly in Hong Kong*

A court in Hong Kong has found student activist Joshua Wong guilty of taking part in an unlawful assembly.

Wong and two others climbed over a fence into the forecourt of the Hong Kong government complex on 26 September 2014.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-36852731

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## Jlaw

HK law is weak. He will probably be sentence by a slap on the wrist. China can make an example of these guys by denying them entry to the mainland. Trust me, if you work in HK in finance sector (which is mainly the only sector of work you can find ), you will need to travel to China for business sometime. If they can't go over due to some anti government activities in the past, it will definitely hurt their career and their pocket book.

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## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> HK law is weak. He will probably be sentence by a slap on the wrist. China can make an example of these guys by denying them entry to the mainland. Trust me, if you work in HK in finance sector (which is mainly the only sector of work you can find ), you will need to travel to China for business sometime. If they can't go over due to some anti government activities in the past, it will definitely hurt their career and their pocket book.



their career prospects ain't looking good  those suckers will regret it

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## CAPRICORN-88

Nan Yang said:


> *Joshua Wong found guilty of unlawful assembly in Hong Kong*
> 
> A court in Hong Kong has found student activist Joshua Wong guilty of taking part in an unlawful assembly.
> 
> Wong and two others climbed over a fence into the forecourt of the Hong Kong government complex on 26 September 2014.
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-36852731



For the irreparable damages he and his hooligans committed to the business community, he and his gangs should have been thrown into jail for a long, long time and maybe make a bankrupt so that he understand what it is like to sabotage other people livelihood

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## Chinese-Dragon

Jlaw said:


> HK law is weak.



So very true.

Don't expect much.

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## rott

Jlaw said:


> HK law is weak. He will probably be sentence by a slap on the wrist. China can make an example of these guys by denying them entry to the mainland. Trust me, if you work in HK in finance sector (which is mainly the only sector of work you can find ), you will need to travel to China for business sometime. If they can't go over due to some anti government activities in the past, it will definitely hurt their career and their pocket book.


Very well thought out. 



Jlaw said:


> HK law is weak. He will probably be sentence by a slap on the wrist. China can make an example of these guys by denying them entry to the mainland. Trust me, if you work in HK in finance sector (which is mainly the only sector of work you can find ), you will need to travel to China for business sometime. If they can't go over due to some anti government activities in the past, it will definitely hurt their career and their pocket book.


Very well thought out. 



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> He looks Viet.
> 
> Send his malnourished skinny *** back to Vietnam.


Hehe... 
Your user name is very hard to remember. There were times I wanted to tag you but couldn't remember it.

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## HAIDER

Now Chinese will serve Shrimp fried rice with extra spicy for the rest of his life.

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## Jlaw

Chinese-Dragon said:


> So very true.
> 
> Don't expect much.


I follow HK news on my local channel and some of the sentences handed out are a joke. Not that I would commit any crime, but if I had to commit a crime, HK is where I would go

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## 21stCentury

This little thug should be severely fined if not a long imprisonment sentence. I'd go with fining his *** so bad his own family will disown him.

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## oprih

He looks like a walking skeleton, america is probably not feeding their attack dogs right.

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## HAIDER

Did this guy break Hong Kong law or mainland law ?


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## 21stCentury

HAIDER said:


> Did this guy break Hong Kong law or mainland law ?



Subversion / assisting outside states in subversion is the highest form of treason, in some places its punishable by death. If he was American and was assisting some foreign hostile state in subverting or trying to overthrow the government he would be branded a terrorist and be tortured indefinitely. 

Death sentence should be standard for national traitors.

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## TaiShang

Better not to make a victimized hero from the guy. Either punish severely, or ignore. Giving out light sentence will simply add another line in his CV.

Like has been suggested above, financial punishment is the best form of punishment. It depoliticizes the issue and put strain on the foreign interests that back this guy and his co. 

Make a generous assessment of the financial loss due to his unlawful act, and then make him pay for it through community service. 

Packaging and presentation is important. It is not a coincidence that the US calls its own racial division as civil rights issue while it calls other countries' less severe problems as human rights issue.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> Better not to make a victimized hero from the guy. Either punish severely, or ignore. Giving out light sentence will simply add another line in his CV.
> 
> Like has been suggested above, financial punishment is the best form of punishment. It depoliticizes the issue and put strain on the foreign interests that back this guy and his co.
> 
> Make a generous assessment of the financial loss due to his unlawful act, and then make him pay for it through community service.
> 
> Packaging and presentation is important. It is not a coincidence that the US calls its own racial division as civil rights issue while it calls other countries' less severe problems as human rights issue.



Exactly. We know that HK people are not afraid of jail time but more afraid of losing $$$.

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## Chinese-Dragon

HAIDER said:


> Did this guy break Hong Kong law or mainland law ?



He broke Hong Kong law.

Our city is FAR too tolerant of anti-national pieces of sh*t like Joshua Wong. I wish we could send him to the Mainland so he can get proper punishment.

What this guy does is essentially treason. I can't wait until we get Mainland laws in HK.



Jlaw said:


> I follow HK news on my local channel and some of the sentences handed out are a joke. Not that I would commit any crime, but if I had to commit a crime, HK is where I would go



You got that right, Hell our police are even protecting Joshua Wong in case someone wants to be a vigilante.

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## Jlaw

Chinese-Dragon said:


> He broke Hong Kong law.
> 
> Our city is FAR too tolerant of anti-national pieces of sh*t like Joshua Wong. I wish we could send him to the Mainland so he can get proper punishment.
> 
> What this guy does is essentially treason. I can't wait until we get Mainland laws in HK.



Does HK need to wait until 2047?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Jlaw said:


> Does HK need to wait until 2047?



Thankfully I don't think we'll have to wait that long.

There are ways to do it slowly over time, the HK government has already been pushing through a lot of measures.

Maybe a decade or so to see some real improvement.

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## Nan Yang

Jlaw said:


> Exactly. We know that HK people are not afraid of jail time but more afraid of losing $$$.


Exactly. Hits them running dogs where it hurts the most.... Their wallet.

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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> I follow HK news on my local channel and some of the sentences handed out are a joke. Not that I would commit any crime, but if I had to commit a crime, HK is where I would go


As i know the length of the sentences or punishment were decided by the HK Judges, most of the time people like Joshua Wong or people who are anti-government will more likely get less punishment than what they should be.

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## Three_Kingdoms

There are a growing number of "Joshua Wong" type bastards who loom into media prominance since the "umbrella movement" in HK which is disgusting. It was revealed during the movement's high time that these bastards were coached by the so called pan-democrats and american institutions



bbccdd1470 said:


> As i know the length of the sentences or punishment were decided by the HK Judges, most of the time people like Joshua Wong or people who are anti-government will more likely get less punishment than what they should be.



Indeed. A large number of these thugs who have caused damages to the society were given very light sentences like short periods of community services



terranMarine said:


> their career prospects ain't looking good  those suckers will regret it



They think they can be bailed out by the USA for the rest of their lives. Bunches of delusional bastards

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## CAPRICORN-88

Three_Kingdoms said:


> There are a growing number of "Joshua Wong" type bastards who loom into media prominance since the "umbrella movement" in HK which is disgusting. It was revealed during the movement's high time that these bastards were coached by the so called pan-democrats and american institutions
> 
> Indeed. A large number of these thugs who have caused damages to the society were given very light sentences like short periods of community services
> 
> They think they can be bailed out by the USA for the rest of their lives. Bunches of delusional bastards



 It is simply UNBELIEVABLE! 

 This young CIA operative (recruited in Macao) who after crippling and paralysed Hong Kong for such a long time and all he received now is just a slap on the wrist like a naughty boy. 

To the rest of the sane world, these Hong Kongers who praise and protected him, deserved him.

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## Three_Kingdoms

21stCentury said:


> Subversion / assisting outside states in subversion is the highest form of treason, in some places its punishable by death. If he was American and was assisting some foreign hostile state in subverting or trying to overthrow the government he would be branded a terrorist and be tortured indefinitely.
> 
> Death sentence should be standard for national traitors.



Article 23 in the Basic Law is the one that defines and limits how far these bastards can go in their movements that can be interpreted as subversion, treason... But the proposal to implement this law was not getting the people's approval.

There are other articles in the Laws of HK which can be applied for prosecuting these misbehaviours however

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## terranMarine

Three_Kingdoms said:


> They think they can be bailed out by the USA for the rest of their lives. Bunches of delusional bastards



When the one country and two system rule expires, it's gonna be a nightmare for these kind of traitors. Mainland punishment will be much harsher. They better hope US has granted them asylum or life will be hell for them in HK.

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## Three_Kingdoms

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is simply UNBELIEVABLE!
> 
> This young CIA operative (recruited in Macao) who after crippling and paralysed Hong Kong for such a long time and all he received now is just a slap on the wrist like a naughty boy.
> 
> To the rest of the sane world, these Hong Kongers who praise and protected him, deserved him.



Hmm, the Counsul General of USA in HK, Clifford Hart, is a former CIA who has experience working in similar "diplomatic" positions in the former Soviet Union and Iraq! Isnt that something to ponder? He has just retired recently but he said he loves HK so much he is staying on in the territory working as a consultant for a private enterprise.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*The future of Hong Kong is now looking bleak* unless some quick amends or remedies are made. 

*Hong Kong position as a FINANCIAL CENTER is now in jeopardy*.

Hong Konger have to decide and act soon. *Hong Kong rise to prominent because it used to be the sole gateway to PRC but this is NO longer the case anymore. *

There is a saying.
*One cannot have the cake and eat it.*

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## Three_Kingdoms

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *The future of Hong Kong is now looking bleak* unless some quick amends or remedies are made.
> 
> *Hong Kong position as a FINANCIAL CENTER is now in jeopardy*.
> 
> Hong Konger have to decide and act soon. *Hong Kong rise to prominent because it used to be the sole gateway to PRC but this is NO longer the case anymore. *
> 
> There is a saying.
> *One cannot have the cake and eat it.*



Bleaker but not as bleak
We still have a sizeable number of folks in power who do not opt for a wholesome subscription of western ideologies at the heavy expense of our own culture and sovereignty

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## terranMarine

Three_Kingdoms said:


> Hmm, the Counsul General of USA in HK, Clifford Hart, is a former CIA who has experience working in similar "diplomatic" positions in the former Soviet Union and Iraq! Isnt that something to ponder? He has just retired recently but he said he loves HK so much he is staying on in the territory working as a consultant for a private enterprise.



hai hk dui lam kui

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## Jlaw

bbccdd1470 said:


> As i know the length of the sentences or punishment were decided by the HK Judges, most of the time people like Joshua Wong or people who are anti-government will more likely get less punishment than what they should be.


But does HK law use precedent for judgement? At least in Canada and US, precedent and a guideline for each crime are used. ie. manslaughter is 7-10 years in Canada if I remember correctly. So a person charged with that cannot get a sentence less than 7 years. Plus each crime can be added thus increasing the sentence. 

I don't like the fact that criminals can get early parole for being "good' while in prison. So a sentence of 7 years usually end up 4 years.

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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> But does HK law use precedent for judgement? At least in Canada and US, precedent and a guideline for each crime are used. ie. manslaughter is 7-10 years in Canada if I remember correctly. So a person charged with that cannot get a sentence less than 7 years. Plus each crime can be added thus increasing the sentence.
> 
> I don't like the fact that criminals can get early parole for being "good' while in prison. So a sentence of 7 years usually end up 4 years.


I'm not so familiar with criminal justice in HK, but from what I saw in the news, many of the case that involving with people with "background" (backed by pan-democratic party) will always have their initial charge dropped due to less of evidences by the judge, so the police have to charge them with lesser charge and most likely they will be getting community service as punishment. Therefore, many people in HK have question about the impartiality of the HK judicial branch, especially those high judges.

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## Jlaw

bbccdd1470 said:


> I'm not so familiar with criminal justice in HK, but from what I saw in the news, many of the case that involving with people with "background" (backed by pan-democratic party) will always have their initial charge dropped due to less of evidences by the judge, so the police have to charge them with lesser charge and most likely they will be getting community service as punishment. Therefore, many people in HK have question about the impartiality of the HK judicial branch, especially those high judges.



I think the high judges are being paid by outsiders. Too bad there is no jurisdiction to check their banking activities.

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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> I think the high judges are being paid by outsiders. Too bad there is no jurisdiction to check their banking activities.


True, they are the last mole left by those British colonists and toughest enemy that HKSAR governmnet ever face.

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## baajey

u guys are no different from the rabid saffronists back in india


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## Three_Kingdoms

Jlaw said:


> I think the high judges are being paid by outsiders. Too bad there is no jurisdiction to check their banking activities.



I think 馬道立Geoffrey Ma, the Chief Justice of the Court of Final Appeal should be the top brass to keep an eye on the judges. We also have ICAC which is answerable to complaints of irregularities and misconducts in respect of corruptions of public servants


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## Jlaw

Three_Kingdoms said:


> I think 馬道立Geoffrey Ma, the Chief Justice of the Court of Final Appeal should be the top brass to keep an eye on the judges. We also have ICAC which is answerable to complaints of irregularities and misconducts in respect of corruptions of public servants


Well it's hard to prove a judge is doing wrong or under influence from outsiders because a judgement is very subjective.

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## BoQ77

i guess by the crime stated, Joshua must clean charity area for 3 days.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Jlaw said:


> Well it's hard to prove a judge is doing wrong or under influence from outsiders because a judgement is very subjective.



I guess you need juries to get around this problem.


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## Three_Kingdoms

Jlaw said:


> Well it's hard to prove a judge is doing wrong or under influence from outsiders because a judgement is very subjective.



There are some cases in HK where judges have overturned a lower court ruling for a retrial because there is a system for appeal in HK
*Hong Kong Court Orders Retrial of Nancy Kissel Murder Case*
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704140104575058092228681452

So if the defendent or plaintiff is not happy with the judge's sentences, they have rights to appeal

However in very broad terms, yes, because judges are human beings afterall particularly when they're confronting with cases which call for value judgements
I think judges all over the world are unavoidably influenced by their political preferences, social pressure, peer group pressure and the culture that they are brought up with But if the values are framed within a legal context and written into legal statutes, then their judgements have to be exercised within the boundary set by the law or precedent cases
Some courts in HK do not require jury services. They are usually lower courts such as Labour Tribunal, Small Claims Tribunal, Lands Tribunal ...etc where a jury is not required. If jurors are required their ultimate duty is to deliver the verdict: "Guilty or Not Guilty " after that the judge has rooms to play around during sentencing like the length of jail-time or community services, amount of penalties, fees or damages


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## Jlaw

Three_Kingdoms said:


> There are some cases in HK where judges have overturned a lower court ruling for a retrial because there is a system for appeal in HK
> *Hong Kong Court Orders Retrial of Nancy Kissel Murder Case*
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704140104575058092228681452
> 
> So if the defendent or plaintiff is not happy with the judge's sentences, they have rights to appeal
> 
> However in very broad terms, yes, because judges are human beings afterall particularly when they're confronting with cases which call for value judgements
> I think judges all over the world are unavoidably influenced by their political preferences, social pressure, peer group pressure and the culture that they are brought up with But if the values are framed within a legal context and written into legal statutes, then their judgements have to be exercised within the boundary set by the law or precedent cases
> Some courts in HK do not require jury services. They are usually lower courts such as Labour Tribunal, Small Claims Tribunal, Lands Tribunal ...etc where a jury is not required. If jurors are required their ultimate duty is to deliver the verdict: "Guilty or Not Guilty " after that the judge has rooms to play around during sentencing like the length of jail-time or community services, amount of penalties, fees or damages



Not sure why they don't sentence based on a set guidelines


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## Three_Kingdoms

Jlaw said:


> Not sure why they don't sentence based on a set guidelines



There are sets of guidelines as I 've said above like the promulgation of "sentencing guidelines"
https://hub.hku.hk/bitstream/10722/219342/1/Content.pdf
*Abstract*
_*"Constitutional norms, statutory rules and common law principles govern the art and science
of sentencing in Hong Kong. Death penalty and corporal punishments are sentencing
measures of the past. As reflected in a 2014 law reform report on suspended sentences, the
emphasis now is on discretionary sentencing, although murder still carries a mandatory life
imprisonment. Hong Kong courts have a full range of sentencing options to ensure that the
punishment fits the crime and offender. Sentencing decisions are informed by traditional
purposes of punishment including public protection, deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation and
reparation for victims. The purpose of denunciation has been cited by judges more frequently
in recent years. Restorative justice, however, is not commonly referred to. Hong Kong’s
Court of Appeal provides guideline sentences for specific offences; such guidelines assist
courts in setting the starting point sentence in a particular case. *Aggravating and mitigating
factors serve respectively to move the sentence marker up and down.* While proportionality
is an applied constitutional principle of sentencing, courts still enhance sentences in cases of
prevalent organised crime and routinely give sentencing discounts on pleas of guilty or for
assistance given to the authorities.*_


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## Jlaw

Three_Kingdoms said:


> There are set of guidelines as I 've said above like the promulgation of "sentencing guidelines"
> https://hub.hku.hk/bitstream/10722/219342/1/Content.pdf
> *Abstract*
> _*"Constitutional norms, statutory rules and common law principles govern the art and science
> of sentencing in Hong Kong. Death penalty and corporal punishments are sentencing
> measures of the past. As reflected in a 2014 law reform report on suspended sentences, the
> emphasis now is on discretionary sentencing, although murder still carries a mandatory life
> imprisonment. Hong Kong courts have a full range of sentencing options to ensure that the
> punishment fits the crime and offender. Sentencing decisions are informed by traditional
> purposes of punishment including public protection, deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation and
> reparation for victims. The purpose of denunciation has been cited by judges more frequently
> in recent years. Restorative justice, however, is not commonly referred to. Hong Kong’s
> Court of Appeal provides guideline sentences for specific offences; such guidelines assist
> courts in setting the starting point sentence in a particular case. *Aggravating and mitigating
> factors serve respectively to move the sentence marker up and down.* While proportionality
> is an applied constitutional principle of sentencing, courts still enhance sentences in cases of
> prevalent organised crime and routinely give sentencing discounts on pleas of guilty or for
> assistance given to the authorities.*_



I guess I should be more specific. In Canadian laws, we have sentencing guidelines:

Eg. 1st degree murder (planned murder)- 25 years in prison
2nd degree murder-up to 15 years
manslaughter (ie. accidently killed someone while driving under influence) - 7-10 years.

A sentence can also be compounded based on other crimes committed during the process. Eg. You kidnapped a kid for ransom (crime). You killed him intentionally or accidentally (crime). You also assaulted 3 people in the process (crime). So sentencing would be times 3.
In our code, if you kill or assault a police officer, the sentence is harsher .

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## Three_Kingdoms

Jlaw said:


> I guess I should be more specific. In Canadian laws, we have sentencing guidelines:
> 
> Eg. 1st degree murder (planned murder)- 25 years in prison
> 2nd degree murder-up to 15 years
> manslaughter (ie. accidently killed someone while driving under influence) - 7-10 years.
> 
> A sentence can also be compounded based on other crimes committed during the process. Eg. You kidnapped a kid for ransom (crime). You killed him intentionally or accidentally (crime). You also assaulted 3 people in the process (crime). So sentencing would be times 3.
> In our code, if you kill or assault a police officer, the sentence is harsher .



The principles are the same in Common Law system that is being practised in the present/former "commonwealth"
countries/districts. HK is one of those as mentioned in my comments @39


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## jerry_tan

*Can Hong Kong break free of China?*




Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry
REUTERS/Tyrone Siu

Hong Kong is a historical accident. China had to give up what was then a mostly empty island to Britain after losing the First Opium War in 1842. The tiny island grew to become one of the world's most thriving metropolises as the U.K. established a benevolently deregulated economy that enabled exiles from Communist China to build one of the world's most bustling business centers. Hong Kong became an economic powerhouse; today it has a population of more than 7 million and the world's 10th highest GDP per capita (on a purchasing power parity basis). But it has also been a cultural beacon, hosting thriving religious organizations that couldn't prosper in China, and producing an iconic and influential movie industry.

When the U.K. handed over Hong Kong to China in 1997, pursuant to the original lease from the 19th century, China promised to respect Hong Kong's historical liberties under the "One Country, Two Systems" concept. The idea was that Hong Kong would become a part of China, but have its own constitution and its own political system, including civil liberties.

Anyone who trusted that promise was smoking something.

And indeed, China has recently been cracking down. In 2014, a decision by the Chinese Communist Party to start vetting candidates for elections prompted the "umbrella movement," a series of sit-ins and protests that froze the city for months. More recently, Chinese dissidents living in Hong Kong, who used to be able to rely on safety, have been running into "accidents" — or disappearing. Most famously, Lam Wing-kee, a seller of books critical of China, disappeared, and was only allowed to return to Hong Kong after months of detention and alleged torture.

The latest crackdown from the Chinese government has caused a severe backlash from the umbrella movement. And it's causing a major shift. Hong Kong reformers have always agitated only for maintaining Hong Kong's liberties within China. Now, a growing number of voices are advocating what should have been the goal all along: Hong Kong independence.



The _South China Morning Post_ frets that teachers in Hong Kong might advocate independence to their students, and the government says that teachers who advocate independence will be sacked, a sure sign of fear. The Chinese government is also warning that candidates for the Legislative Council, Hong Kong's semi-elected parliament, who support independence will face "follow-up action".

This is a really big deal. Barely a year or two ago, the Hong Kong independence movement was a joke. Literally. People made a joke flag and a joke website for the Hong Kong independence movement.

Now the independence movement is real. It's fielding candidates for office, and has a secret membership list. Today, people are marching with Hong Kong's colonial-era flag, and the "dragon and lion flag," which displays Hong Kong's colonial-era arms, symbols for a return to independence.

The movement is still fringe, and there hasn't been serious polling on it. But the demographics of the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement are changing. Younger citizens feel that the traditional pro-democracy parties have accomplished nothing, and younger activists don't want to work through the process anymore. They want to protest, sit-in, perform street action, and get arrested. A recent poll found the number of Hong Kong residents who say they "feel Chinese" has dropped to a record low.

The pro-independence movement has a very difficult road ahead of it. To say China is irredentist is to put it mildly. It still hasn't gotten over Taiwan's independence decades ago, still claims Taiwan as a part of China, and breaks off diplomatic relationships with any country that recognizes Taiwan. Hong Kong cannot win independence militarily, and for it to win independence through peaceful means would mean a willingness on the part of China to refuse a crackdown for political or PR reasons that it has never, ever shown. Xi Jinping's government, far from embracing a putative trend toward a political opening in China following the economic opening, has concentrated power and embraced authoritarianism to an extent unseen since at least Tian An Men. A Chinese prosecutor's office darkly warned that Hong Kong independence would turn the peninsula "into Syria".

And yet... China is an unstable country. And in a world of Brexit and Trump for president, anything is possible. Black swans can and do happen.

More broadly, the Hong Kong independence movement shows that this beautiful city has spine and spunk. It is right. City-states are the future. And Hong Kong is more Hong Kong than China at this point. It has its own history, its own culture, its own people, its own problems. Long live Hong Kong independence.

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## Economic superpower

Troll thread alert

@ahojunk @Shotgunner51 @Hu Songshan @waz

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## Chinese-Dragon

Uh, why would we want to break free from our motherland?

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## Jf Thunder

can Kandhaar break free from Afghanistan?

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## grey boy 2

I believe the hate resulted from the rejection of residence of Filipino maids in HK is real, the OP proved my point well







Hong Kong's highest court on Monday rejected the final appeal of two Filipino workers to gain permanent residency in Hong Kong
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/world/asia/hong-kong-maids/

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## ahojunk

Economic superpower said:


> Troll thread alert
> 
> @ahojunk @Shotgunner51 @Hu Songshan @waz


.
Please present your opinions in a calm and polite manner.

If there are too many complaints or if this thread gets out of hand, I will lock it and issue infractions to the guilty parties.

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## Chinese-Dragon

grey boy 2 said:


> Hong Kong's highest court on Monday rejected the final appeal of two Filipino workers to gain permanent residency in Hong Kong
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/world/asia/hong-kong-maids/



The Filipino maids we have in Hong Kong are good people, they are working hard to support their families back home. I have nothing but good things to say about them, from my personal experience with many of them.

That said, why should they get Chinese citizenship or HK residency? China is not an immigration nation, they have their own country in the Philippines. Did they really expect to get it?

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## Jlaw

grey boy 2 said:


> I believe the hate resulted from the rejection of residence of Filipino maids in HK is real, the OP proved my point well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong's highest court on Monday rejected the final appeal of two Filipino workers to gain permanent residency in Hong Kong
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/world/asia/hong-kong-maids/



it's the right decision. in HK the people only want the best and brightest minds. Maids provide a service, but it's not a high skilled job. plus there's indonesian maids now

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## terranMarine

I don't know where the author gets the idea about China is an unstable country or why HK should break away from Mainland. This White journalist is basically saying that separatism is a good thing. And regarding Taiwan's independence, i think he must be living in denial as there was never a separate country called Taiwan for starters. On the other hand i see lots of instability factors across Europe, such as riots and killings in France, Germany, Spain. I suppose the author also supports the break away of certain parts of France since he is living there with his family.

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## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> I don't know where the author gets the idea about China is an unstable country or why HK should break away from Mainland. This White journalist is basically saying that separatism is a good thing. And regarding Taiwan's independence, i think he must be living in denial as there was never a separate country called Taiwan for starters. On the other hand i see lots of instability factors across Europe, such as riots and killings in France, Germany, Spain. I suppose the author also supports the break away of certain parts of France since he is living there with his family.


to white folks, indepedence is good for them as long it doesn't happen with their own country. These folks are just too easy to read.

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## grey boy 2

Could clowns like this organized a successful independence movement in HK
You be the judge my friends

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## Chinese-Dragon

grey boy 2 said:


> On topic as a native Hongkonger, a few hundreds independence "day dreamers" does not represented us period
> We are way smarter than that



You got it brother.

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## waz

grey boy 2 said:


> Could clowns like this organized a successful independence movement in HK
> You be the judge my friends



Lol......I can assure you no one in the UK would batter an eyelid at this. These people need to get on with being part of unified China. These folks had their chance to leave in 97, well their folks did.

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## Chinese-Dragon

jerry_tan said:


> yes I am, i worked in Afganistan when i opened this accvount.
> I don't hate Chinese,i myself have Chinese blood. i just don't like communist government policy towards its neighbors and how they treated its own people they become monster ( they want to nuke those blocking their way), arrogant and aggressive.
> 
> 
> 
> They are not, they just exercise their rights . Why not call for referendum?



We already voted in the last HK General Elections, and the pro-Beijing camp won the overwhelming majority of the votes (including mine).

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## saiyan0321

Wow what do you know? Another article that in a colonial fashion happily advocated separatism, divisionalism as well as remapping the shape of countries by advocating formation of various countries. 

These western so called analysts believe they have a carving knife with which they can easily redraw maps and who cares if their impractical suggested can lead to deaths in the thousands. That 2004 map that should pakistan and middle east redrawn as if it was child's play effecting over twenty countries. 

Their immaturity has already led the world to a disaster and they need to stop interfering into the matters of other countries so that the mess they have created right bow does not grow.

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## grey boy 2

jerry_tan said:


> yes I am, i worked in Afganistan when i opened this accvount.
> I don't hate Chinese,i myself have Chinese blood. i just don't like communist government policy towards its neighbors and how they treated its own people they become monster ( they want to nuke those blocking their way), arrogant and aggressive.
> 
> 
> 
> *They are not, they just exercise their rights . Why not call for referendum?*



This is what happened when someone like you basically knew nothing regarding HongKong, we happened to be top rated city in freedom of almost whatever you name it
We've the rights to vote, and our next big election will held as soon as next week, so please spare us your "Democracy" craps, we don't vote according to money given like how your beloved heavenly country voting system works

Oh btw, please stop exporting us your bananas and domestic helpers as well since we're the "EVIL COMMUNIST" thats on your hate list, Thank you for your kind attention due to this matter

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## jerry_tan

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We already voted in the last HK General Elections, and the pro-Beijing camp won the overwhelming majority of the votes (including mine).


then i rest my case 



grey boy 2 said:


> Oh btw, please stop exporting us your bananas and domestic helpers as well since we're the "EVIL COMMUNIST" thats on your hate list, Thank you for your kind attention due to this matter



Stop importing period, we have nothing to lose . we will sell our bananas to others


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## grey boy 2

jerry_tan said:


> then i rest my case
> 
> 
> 
> *Stop importing period, we have nothing to lose . we will sell our bananas to others*



Looks like you're the one who was openly dislike if not hated about us "evil communist Chinese", not the other way around.
Perhaps you should be the one who should act according to your "BIG TALKS" am i right? my friend

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## Hellfire

Wow!!!!!!

It is a fashion to break away nowadays ... soon individual houses will want to be accepted as a separate country!

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## TaiShang

hellfire said:


> Wow!!!!!!
> 
> It is a fashion to break away nowadays ... soon individual houses will want to be accepted as a separate country!




LOL.

But, hell no, it is just in the wildest dreams of some Western "bloggers" who survive on such eye-catching titles.

Paris has a greater chance of disintegration under the weight of its own race and class related problems and, if I were the author, I would worry more about my personal safety in France than Hong Kong a few disgruntled and ignored "scholars" who yearn for a leash colored in blue, red and white.

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## Hellfire

TaiShang said:


> LOL.
> 
> But, hell no, it is just in the wildest dreams of some Western "bloggers" who survive on such eye-catching titles.
> 
> Paris has a greater chance of disintegration under the weight of its own race and class related problems and, if I were the author, I would worry more about my personal safety in France than Hong Kong a few disgruntled and ignored "scholars" who yearn for a leash colored in blue, red and white.



Actually I was amused by the silliness of the idea.

The only issue could have been the democracy aspect. But that too, as long as the Chinese government is performing on economic and social indices, is irrelevant. We have seen democracy bog India down, whereas the relative centralised and authoritarian rule in China did miracles for China in the same time period.

Evolution of society will lead to greater autonomy and changes in the concept of nation states. French would have become loosely confederated as progress occurred in socio-economic and education front. The advent of liberalism was the death knell of the nation states and the progenitor of the "global citizenship" in the form of further evolution of European Union.

The advent of Muslim masses into the European landmass, a religion which is in the same evolutionary cycle which Christianity was about two centuries back, will in fact put a stop and further consolidate the nation state due to inherent challenges of fighting an ideology.

Just my most "politically" correct take on the problems in Europe and mideast and in fact, the world as a whole.

It is a clash of civilizations - but replace civiliization with religion

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## ahojunk

waz said:


> Lol......I can assure you no one in the UK would batter an eyelid at this. These people need to get on with being part of unified China. These folks had their chance to leave in 97, well their folks did.


.
You got me thinking. Some folks who left in 97 have returned to HK, lol.

The people in UK won't have time to batter an eyelid, I agree.

You guys got more important things to worry about, such as the ramifications resulting from Brexit, right?

Also, the reality is that China has a big wallet and no country would want to offend China.

Just like US has a big military, no country will want to offend US too.

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## Shotgunner51

Economic superpower said:


> Troll thread alert
> 
> @ahojunk @Shotgunner51 @Hu Songshan @waz




Sorry I am late. Seems so far discussions are very civil and matured, not bad!



TaiShang said:


> But, hell no, it is just in the wildest dreams of some Western "bloggers" who survive on such eye-catching titles.




Exactly, right to the point. The title is "_Can HK break free from China?_", now compare with say "_Can HK better integrate with China?_", which one is more appealing to *people in the west*? The author should know what can sell to his western readers, after all he is one of them.

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## Hellfire

Shotgunner51 said:


> Exactly, right to the point. The title is "_Can HK break free from China?_", now compare with say "_Can HK better integrate with China?_", which one is more appealing to *people in the west*? The author should know what can sell to his western readers, after all he is one of them.



Rather than integration, I shall try and twist it to a 'morphogenesis' of China itself into a more liberal setup albeit under 'guidance' of a central figure (organization) for policy formulation, direction and facilitation, a model quite similar to the board of directors and management of a corporate setup and something that suits the governance model for HK at present.

I messed up ... I am saying that China itself is evolving something akin to HK. The consolidation of 'civil' power by Xi Jinping by 'purging' and 'clipping' the military of its role in the politics of the country will alllow a pragmatic and dynamic policy evolution and implementtation allowing flexibility in both International and National policy directives as also strengthen the overall command and control of the party thereby allowing for policy continuation without existential threat.

If my reading is correct, then what we are seeing is a win win situation for China over sustainable period of time.

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## grey boy 2

hellfire said:


> Rather than integration, I shall try and twist it to a 'morphogenesis' of China itself into a more liberal setup albeit under 'guidance' of a central figure (organization) for policy formulation, direction and facilitation, a model quite similar to the board of directors and management of a corporate setup and something that suits the governance model for HK at present.
> 
> I messed up ... I am saying that China itself is evolving something akin to HK. The consolidation of 'civil' power by Xi Jinping by 'purging' and 'clipping' the military of its role in the politics of the country will alllow a pragmatic and dynamic policy evolution and implementtation allowing flexibility in both International and National policy directives as also strengthen the overall command and control of the party thereby allowing for policy continuation without existential threat.
> 
> If my reading is correct, then what we are seeing is a win win situation for China over sustainable period of time.



We're already in good hands aka "ONE COUNTRY TWO SYSTEM"
http://www.basiclaw.gov.hk/en/publications/book/15anniversary_reunification_ch1_1.pdf
We're the top 5 cities on the planet earth for a reason
"Pearl of the orient" title doesn't grow on trees, my friend

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## Hellfire

grey boy 2 said:


> We're already in good hands aka "ONE COUNTRY TWO SYSTEM"
> http://www.basiclaw.gov.hk/en/publications/book/15anniversary_reunification_ch1_1.pdf
> We're the top 5 cities on the planet earth for a reason
> "Pearl of the orient" title doesn't grow on trees, my friend



You missed my point I guess? It was on evolution of Chinese administration and system of governance into something that suits HK ...

Just like Communism has metamorphosed into something unique to China unrelated to communism elsewhere.

You will, in fact, be able to say one china one system soon enough (ignoring formosa)


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## bbccdd1470

For clarity, I'm personally from and born in HK. I don't know who this Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry guy is, but half way reading this article I can tell this guy have a lots of misinformations about HK. For one thing, if he wants to write something about "accidents" and "disappearing", please do some researches first. Lam Wing-kee was arrested in mainland China when he was visiting his mistress due to "selling illegal books" and "illegal managing business". Moreover his side of the story have many plot holes and he even later admitted that he made "mistakes" on the story itself. It was all over in the news in HK. Furthermore, I would like to ask this Pascal guy: What accidents was he talking about? Well, you may able to fool someone who know nothing about HK as a propaganda, but for us who live in HK and love this place, please at least make a list so we can discuss if those accidents were actually done by the hands of evil CCP.
One country and two systems by definition is "After China resumes the exercise of its sovereignty over Hong Kong in 1997, Hong Kong's current social and economic systems will remain unchanged, its legal system will remain basically unchanged, its way of life and its status as a free port and an international trade and financial centre will remain unchanged."


jerry_tan said:


> China has recently been cracking down. In 2014, a decision by the Chinese Communist Party to start vetting candidates for elections prompted the "umbrella movement,


Does he ever know we were never able to elect our own Governor back as a Colony? The HK chief executive election is the new framework and granted by the PRC Constitution, it clearly has nothing to do with the violation of One country and two systems. If he were right then HK should have never given a chance to elect our own leader due to our system will remain unchanged. Moreover, every country has its own unique method and requirement for Candidate nomination in order to ensure the national safety and increase the efficiency during election, but what "Umbrella movement" wants is no restrictions and requirements at all, that is very dangerous and costly. I doubt any Western democratic country would adopt that type of system. Moreover, I think Pascal has never heard of Special Branch of Royal HK police before 1997. "Historical liberties" is a beautiful word, but is expendable before national safety. Be realistic, it will always happen, no matter before or after 97.
Lastly, HK independent is always a joke no matter you like it or not. Most people who support that are either naive or have insidious intention. What would we actually gain after independent? Nothing but severe economic recession and bloody hell. Not to mention, most of our food and daily necessity are imported from mainland China and we can't stay as financial centre without the big Chinese market. Let's face the truth, those Legco's candidates who promote HK independent for office are only using those young voters for their own benefits, like high salary and bonus, not the welfare for the future generation. Not to mention, people who support HK independent are mostly teenagers or young people who have very few social experiences, which make them the easy prey to target since they are immature and irrational. At the end, this is not really about authoritarian government of Xi Jinping like this article suggested, but the same trick that used in Kiev, where to stir up troubles and create social unrest in HK, and eventually lead to massive foreign investments withdraw in both HK and China.

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## eldamar

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The Filipino maids we have in Hong Kong are good people, they are working hard to support their families back home. I have nothing but good things to say about them, from my personal experience with many of them.
> 
> That said, why should they get Chinese citizenship or HK residency? China is not an immigration nation, they have their own country in the Philippines. Did they really expect to get it?



The thing is they are there to work only- not immigrate. Here in Singapore, if a maid on work permit gets pregnant, her permit would be cancelled and she would be deported immediately. This is to prevent her from giving birth in Singapore as the child would automatically be a Singaporean citizen by right of birth.

This situation extends to all foreign workers. If a foreign worker(on work permit) decides to get married with a Singapore citizen, he/she has to cancel her work permit status, leave the country and reenter on a social visit pass.

There are tons of PH maids that come to Singapore with the true intent of finding a husband here instead of solely working as a maid. we call this in Chinese 'Diao Jinguixu' or 'hooking the golden turtle son-in-law'(literally. rich son-in-law. The more accurate translation is simply a woman looking for a well-to-do husband- and it is often widely perceived by those in other underdeveloped nations that Singaporean men are well off financially)

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Utterly, useless thread...intended by hateful minds to sap away our energies from positive and constructive discourse.

The thread must be closed or moved to indian section where they can have a field day with it.

At least China Section must remain clean from such filth.

@waz , kind friend, could you please close this silly thread.

Many thanks!

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## Jlaw

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We already voted in the last HK General Elections, and the pro-Beijing camp won the overwhelming majority of the votes (including mine).


Heard it was overwhelming 80% support pro Beijing side.



grey boy 2 said:


> This is what happened when someone like you basically knew nothing regarding HongKong, we happened to be top rated city in freedom of almost whatever you name it
> We've the rights to vote, and our next big election will held as soon as next week, so please spare us your "Democracy" craps, we don't vote according to money given like how your beloved heavenly country voting system works
> 
> Oh btw, please stop exporting us your bananas and domestic helpers as well since we're the "EVIL COMMUNIST" thats on your hate list, Thank you for your kind attention due to this matter



The last time Beijing halted banana import for two weeks and PN cave in. I cannot imagine if they stop importing for one month. 
Even with this "evil communist" label , flipinos, Indonesians, Vietnamese , Indians are illegally coming into HK everyday. Yeah, this communist HK is so bad that these people don't want to leave and go back to their democratically elected country

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## ahojunk

Friendly reminder to all.

I have deleted 5 posts that are off-topic.

Keep the discussion civil and stay away from insults.


@Sinopakfriend ,

Your concerns are noted. 

In the interest of free speech, I will keep it open a while longer. Anyway, this thread is coming to the end of its life.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Looks like onebyone is asleep about this story...I'll post it for him.

*Hong Kong protesters rally against Beijing’s initiative to amend local laws (streamed live)*

https://www.rt.com/on-air/365538-hong-kong-rally-beijing/

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## Hamartia Antidote

*PressTV: Anti-China protesters rally in Hong Kong*

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/11/06/492396/Hong-Kong-China-protest-rally-Yau-Leung







A demonstrator carries a former colonial Hong Kong flag during a protest against what pro-independence protesters see as Chinese interference in local politics, in Hong Kong, November 6, 2016. (Photo by Reuters)

*Pro-independence protesters have taken to the streets in Hong Kong to condemn Chinese control over the semi-autonomous region.*

The demonstrators on Sunday marched to the city’s court of final appeal and the Chinese liaison office while carrying banners that read, “Chinese law interpretation tramples on Hong Kong people.”

“Hong Kong has its own legal system, it should not be controlled by Chinese authorities,” said a participant in the rally.

The Sunday rally came after Beijing said it would decide on whether two newly-elected Hong Kong lawmakers, who have advocated a split from China, would be allowed to enter the Legislative Council (Legco) in Hong Kong.

Last month, Baggio Leung and Yau Wai-ching called for Hong Kong’s independence from Chine during their oath-taking ceremony, causing a constitutional dispute between pro-Beijing and anti-Beijing camps in Hong Kong.

Yau and Leung, who won seats in citywide polls in September, are yet to be sworn in to the Legco, as their oath attempt was declared invalid when they draped themselves in banners that read, “Hong Kong is not China” and changed the wording of their formal oaths by using offensive terms and expletives.

The local government said on Friday that Beijing had notified Hong Kong authorities that China’s top legislative body would discuss a law that states council members must swear allegiance to the “Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China.”

The legislative body is expected to announce a decision on the matter on Monday.

Hong Kong’s legislative, executive, and judiciary bodies are already separate from and independent of China, and Beijing only maintains authority in defense, foreign affairs and constitutional disputes.





Pro-independence lawmakers Yau Wai-ching, 25, (L) and Baggio Leung, 30, (R) hold a press conference at the Legislative Council in Hong Kong, November 4, 2016.(Photo by AFP)
Yau and Leung have said the interpretation would deal a “lethal blow” to the city.

Hong Kong was returned by Britain to China in 1997 under a deal that granted the city a semi-autonomous status.

The Monday ruling by China’s top legislative body, China’s National People’s Congress Standing Committee (NPCSC), would mark the fifth time since the handover that Chinese authorities have interpreted Hong Kong’s constitution.

Yau and Leung have called the chairman of the NPCSC and the city’s leader “traitors to Hong Kong.”

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## grey boy 2

Sorry to disappoint you, those US NGO backed criminals were all crushed before the they able to see the sunlight next morning, try getting your orgasm next time perhaps?





Crushed like ants

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## Hamartia Antidote

grey boy 2 said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, those US NGO backed criminals were all crushed before the they able to see the sunlight next morning, try getting your orgasm next time perhaps?



This protest rally story seems to only be reported by typical biased "Eastern" media so it probably isn't legit. Plus nobody trusts RT as it is probably fake staged footage. Eastern media is full of false stories.

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## grey boy 2

happy now?








Say hi to the HK police, "TRAITORS 

In HK, the most despised creatures are those "white hearted wannabe" like .......guess we got a textbook example right here

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## bobsm

*HK police arrest two protesters for obstruction of police duties in illegal rally*
Source: Xinhua 2016-11-07 01:01:53 

HONG KONG, Nov. 6 (Xinhua) -- China's Hong Kong police arrested two protesters Sunday evening for obstruction of police duties and failure to provide their personal identifications in an illegal rally against China's top legislature's interpretation of the Hong Kong Basic Law.

A senior superintendent of the Hong Kong Island Regional Headquarters told the media that the police arrested the two males outside the central government liaison office in Hong Kong.

Thousands of protesters gathered outside the liaison office Sunday evening after participation in a march in the afternoon to protest against the Basic Law interpretation.

The police officer said the rally outside the liaison office was not permitted and condemned the protesters who used bricks and bamboo sticks to attack the police.

The protesters occupied and blocked the Des Voeux Road West to the south of the liaison office, pushing the police's iron fences with umbrellas and sticks.

The police used pepper spray to disperse the protesters.

*Two legislators-elect of Hong Kong's sixth Legislative Council (LegCo) deliberately used curse words insulting the Chinese nation and the country when reading the oath on Oct. 12. Their oath was not accepted by the LegCo's oath supervisor.

While whether they deserve a second chance to take oath is widely debated, Hong Kong people from all circles have criticized and condemned the two.*

Senior members of China's top legislature on Friday heard a report on a draft interpretation of Article 104 of the Hong Kong Basic Law which rules that the LegCo members must swear to uphold the Basic Law and swear allegiance to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) of the People's Republic of China.

The liaison office's director Zhang Xiaoming met with about 200 Hong Kong's delegates to the National People's Congress and members of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference on Sunday to notify them the top legislature's incoming interpretation of the Basic Law.

Zhang noted that the central government holds a clear and firm stance to contain the spread of "Hong Kong Independence" by taking effective measures in accordance with law.

The central government will not allow pro-independence advocates to become LegCo lawmakers, Zhang stressed.


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-11/07/c_135810019.htm

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## grey boy 2

*Violence breaks out at HK protests as police use pepper spray on demonstrators*




Take it "TRAITORS" taste good?

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## lonelyman

Carrying the flag of Union Jack,these people deserve to be colonial slaves of master, never dared to ask to vote to select the governor. They are so desperate, what can they do? Ask British to send ships to do third opium war? the good days for those parasites are over, let them jumping up and down, enjoy the show

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## Kyle Sun

grey boy 2 said:


> *Violence breaks out at HK protests as police use pepper spray on demonstrators*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it "TRAITORS" taste good?


Just send those sycophants to UK.
I am fed up with those pussies.

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## 艹艹艹

*Did the United States not have a shooting case recently?



*

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## grey boy 2

Kyle Sun said:


> Just send those sycophants to UK.
> I am fed up with those pussies.



Is all well bro, this should the last struggle of those US backed NSG paid traitors running DOGS




十二屆全國人大常委會第二十四次會議今早經表決，全票通過《全國人大常委會關於香港特別行政區基本法第一百零四條的解釋》。

《基本法》第104條全文如下「香港特別行政區行政長官、主要官員、行政會議成員、立法會議員、各級法院法官和其他司法人員在就職時必須依法宣誓擁護中華人民共和國香港特別行政區基本法，效忠中華人民共和國香港特別行政區。」

青年新政立法會議員游蕙禎、梁頌恆宣誓引起連串風波，首先引發港府就二人宣誓提出司法覆核，其後全國人大委員長主動要求人大常委會針對《基本法》第104條釋法。身兼基本法委員會委員的港區全國人大代表譚惠珠早前表示，今次釋法非由港府或特首提出，相信是基於國家統一及領土完整等重要課題，人大常委會才主動提出釋法。

全國人大常委會上午10時會在人民大會堂召開記者會，說明表決的內容。
http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20161107/bkn-20161107092122704-1107_00822_001.html

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## 艹艹艹

grey boy 2 said:


> Is all well bro, this should the last struggle of those US backed NSG paid traitors running DOGS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 十二屆全國人大常委會第二十四次會議今早經表決，全票通過《全國人大常委會關於香港特別行政區基本法第一百零四條的解釋》。
> 
> 《基本法》第104條全文如下「香港特別行政區行政長官、主要官員、行政會議成員、立法會議員、各級法院法官和其他司法人員在就職時必須依法宣誓擁護中華人民共和國香港特別行政區基本法，效忠中華人民共和國香港特別行政區。」
> 
> 青年新政立法會議員游蕙禎、梁頌恆宣誓引起連串風波，首先引發港府就二人宣誓提出司法覆核，其後全國人大委員長主動要求人大常委會針對《基本法》第104條釋法。身兼基本法委員會委員的港區全國人大代表譚惠珠早前表示，今次釋法非由港府或特首提出，相信是基於國家統一及領土完整等重要課題，人大常委會才主動提出釋法。
> 
> 全國人大常委會上午10時會在人民大會堂召開記者會，說明表決的內容。
> http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20161107/bkn-20161107092122704-1107_00822_001.html

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## grey boy 2

The 3 main points: *釋法三要點　宣誓後再搞港獨將失議員資格*
*



*
全國人大常委會今早全票通過對《基本法》104條的法律解釋表決議案。(何天成攝)

 全國人大常委會今早全票通過對《基本法》104條的法律解釋表決議案，人大代表廖長江於北京會見傳媒，交代人大釋法原因及內容。

他透露有3點法律解釋：

第一，宣誓必須擁護《基本法》及效忠中華人民共和國香港特別行政區並不單是法定內容，而是參選及出任104條所列公職的法定要求及條件。

第二，「依法宣誓」是指必須符合法定形式及內容，需要真誠、莊重進行宣誓，亦要準確、完確及莊重宣讀有效誓言。若然宣誓人拒絕宣誓，便立刻喪失當應公職的資格；若故意宣讀不一致的誓詞，或以任何不莊重的宣誓方式，亦等同拒絕宣誓，不能再獲宣誓機會。

第三，宣誓必須在法定監誓人面前進行，而監誓人有權去確保宣誓是合法及莊重下進行，亦有權作出宣誓有效與否的裁定。而宣誓具有法律效力及法律約束力，若宣誓人有虛假宣誓，以及宣誓後有違誓行為，均需依法承擔法律責任，即議員宣誓後再搞港獨，其議員資格亦會被撤銷。 
They're dead meat from now on

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## Kyle Sun

Hamartia Antidote said:


> This protest rally story seems to only be reported by biased "Eastern" Press so it probably isn't legit. Plus nobody trusts RT as it is probably fake staged footage.


Only delusional people ,missing the glory of.British empire ,will suck on such petty demonstration.

Some guys just can not control themselves to dig out anglophile ,they do need some placebo.

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## maximuswarrior

LOL Isn't Hong Kong Chinese territory? What is there to interfere?



Hamartia Antidote said:


> https://www.rt.com/on-air/365538-hong-kong-rally-beijing/



Shouldn't you be more worried about the prospect of a female genital grabber becoming your next president?

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## powastick

Trump will not accept defeat, the protest and riot will be bigger.

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## maximuswarrior

powastick said:


> Trump will not accept defeat, the protest and riot will be bigger.



KKK and Bible thumpers will riot day and night.

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## Daniel808

*Angry crowd demands Youngspiration oath pair quit Hong Kong Legco*

Businessmen, politicians, and anti-Japanese occupation fighters join coachloads of angry protesters to decry China slurs in chamber


PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 26 October, 2016, 11:18pm
UPDATED : Thursday, 27 October, 2016, 12:29pm






Thousands of protesters, politicians and community and business leaders occupied the public square outside the Legislative Council complex yesterday to condemn two Youngspiration lawmakers for anti-Chinese slurs during their members’ oaths.

Chinese flags and banners branding the pair “traitors” and “scum” fringed the pavements leading to the entrance of the Admiralty building. Coachloads of protesters – mostly old people – descended, while others flooded in from the nearby MTR station, waving placards with slogans demanding Sixtus Baggio Leung Chung-hang and Yau Wai-ching be “thrown out of the Legco”.

The organisers – a group of 25 pro-Beijing parties and community and business groups calling itself the Anti-China-Insulting, *Anti-Hong Kong Independence Alliance – said more than 10,000 people joined it. Police estimated the crowd peaked at 8,720.*

During their Legco pledges on October 12, Leung and Yau swore allegiance to “the Hong Kong nation” and pronounced China as “Chee-na”, similar to the derogatory _Shina_ used by the Japanese during wartime. Despite outcry, the pair refused to apologise.



Emotions remained high throughout yesterday’s rally as community leaders and politicians took turns to condemn the pair onstage. *Among them was Hong Kong business magnate Allan Zeman, chairman of Lan Kwai Fong Holdings, who urged the crowds to “say no to these two young people”.*

National People’s Congress delegate Maria Tam Wai-chu also addressed the protesters and said: “They were voted in by their voters, but did the voters expect them to say such derogatory things about the Chinese?”

Also there were 20 representatives of the former guerrilla squads East River Column and Kowloon Independent Brigade, that fought Japanese troops during the second world war.

*Kevin Ng, in his 40s, a company driver whose grandfather was a squad member, said: “I think the two [localists] have gone too far. My grandfather fought for Hong Kong against the Japanese. I can’t allow anyone to use dirty words to insult Chinese and Hongkongers.”*

Emerging from a sea of elderly protesters was former anti-Occupy student activist Ashley Tse Hiu-hung, 25, who said: *“I came because I want to tell Leung and Yau that they can’t represent us young people.”*

Alliance spokesman Stanley Ng Chau-pei said: “The huge turnout is solid proof of public discontent with Leung and Yau. They should be thrown out of Legco. There is no place in Legco for those who insult Chinese people.”

In the evening, 50 supporters of the Youngspiration lawmakers staged a sit-in outside Legco to denounce what they called a trampling on separation of powers.

A number of pan-democrats, including Nathan Law Kwun-chung, of Demosisto, and Eddie Chu Hoi-dick also turned up.

Among those in the audience was Hung Siu-fai, 21, a physics student from the University of Science and Technology. She expressed reservations about the pair’s behaviour during the oaths, but said: “What I can’t tolerate is the procedural violence of the pro-establishment camp.”

_Additional reporting by Raymond Yeung and Peace Chiu_


This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as:
Crowd demands oath pair quit Legco

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...youngspiration-oath-pair-quit-hong-kong-legco

The "Real Voice" of Hong Kong people

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## qwerrty

those baboons with union jack flags should be charged with treason and send 'em to frozen hell hole somewhere in mongolia. disgusting..

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## Bussard Ramjet

*Hong Kong pro-democracy politicians banned by China as crisis grows*

Hong Kong is facing a severe political crisis after China barred two pro-independence politicians from the city’s legislature.

In a highly controversial move, Beijing said Yau Wai-ching and Sixtus “Baggio” Leung would not be able to hold office, striking a blow to the burgeoning movement calling for greater autonomy from the mainland.

The ruling, which amounts to Beijing’s most direct intervention in the territory’s legal system since the 1997 handover to Chinese rule, is expected to spark renewed street protests in the former British colony.


0:00

Facebook Twitter Pinterest
Hong Kong politicians defy China as they are sworn in
During a chaotic swearing-in ceremony last month, Yau and Leung thumbed their noses at Beijing by refusing to declare their allegiance to China and carrying blue flags reading: “Hong Kong is not China.”

The pair’s oaths are invalid and they will not be able to retake them, China’s rubberstamp legislature said, one day after thousands marched through the streets of Hong Kong to protest against Beijing’s interference.

Those wishing to hold public office must “sincerely and solemnly” declare allegiance to China, it said.

Legislators must swear allegiance to “the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China”, according to the Basic Law, the city’s mini-constitution.

“Since the legislative council elections, some people have been advocating independence and saying they want to do it in Legco,” Li Fei, the chairman of the Basic Law committee at China’s parliament, said at a press conference announcing the decision. “The interpretation today will help to defend national unity and sovereignty.”

Any calls for “self-determination” amounted to advocating for independence, with both standing at odds with the Basic Law, Li added. He warned allowing independence talk to go unchecked would harm territorial integrity, national security and competitiveness.

This is the beginning of the end of Hong Kong
Claudia Mo
Read more
The Chinese government “is determined to firmly confront the pro-independence forces without any ambiguity,” he added.

The decision in unlikely to silence calls in Hong Kong for greater autonomy and independence

Emily Lau, a veteran member of Hong Kong’s pro-democracy camp, said Beijing had decided to intervene because it feared the spread of independence to regions such as Tibet and Xinjiang where there is longstanding resistance to the Communist party’s rule. 

Lau, the chairwoman of Hong Kong’s Democratic party, said that by preventing Leung and Yau from taking up their seats Beijing hoped to nip Hong Kong’s independence movement in the bud. 
“But you can’t nip it because there are many students in secondary schools and in universities who support the idea,” she said. “So what Beijing should be asking is not so much, ‘How do we get rid of it?’ It is, ‘How come our young people – and even those who are not so young – how come they advocate [independence]?’”

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“That is the way of solving the problem, not trying to suppress it. Because the harder you suppress, the more they will rise up,” she added.

Eddie Chu, a pro-democracy politician, said Beijing’s intervention would only fuel greater opposition from young people who were increasingly disillusioned with its rule.

“Every time Beijing tries to use legal instruments to stop Hong Kong people seeking democracy, the opposite will happen. More people, in particular young people, will be more determined in thinking about breaking through the restrictions set by Beijing,” Chu said. “The thoughts of the young people have changed a lot in these few years and I don’t think this interpretation will deter them from seeking self-determination. Quite the opposite.”

Chu said the ruling was the latest example of Beijing’s meddling in what he described as Hong Kong’s internal affairs. “It is like something happening on another planet - but it will have serious consequences for us,” he warned.

However, pro-China voices welcomed the ruling.


Holden Chow, one of the rising stars of Hong Kong’s pro-Beijing camp, said he backed the central government’s “tough decision” to disqualify Yau and Leung from the legislative council, a move he claimed many in the former colony would welcome.

Chow, a politician from Hong Kong’s largest pro-Beijing party, the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB), said there was no place for such voices in the legislature. Beijing’s rare intervention would serve as a warning to all of Hong Kong’s pro-democracy politicians “not to carry on with advocating independence or self-determination”.

“Their behaviour was blatant and notorious,” he said of Yau and Leung. “When they took their oaths they used derogatory words to insult Chinese people and have been bluntly advocating the independence of Hong Kong.”

“Hong Kong is indeed part of China,” Chow added. “If you deny that, why would you participate in the legislative chamber? Why would you insist on having a seat? … Obviously, without their presence it will be better.” 

Hong Kong’s pro-democracy protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful but Chow said he feared that “some of the radicals” would stage “violent protests” in response to the decision.


'Festering pustules': the two pro-democracy activists who are targets of China's wrath
Read more
After the UK handed Hong Kong to China in 1997, the city maintained its own laws, courts and freedoms not enjoyed in mainland China, under a framework known as “one country, two systems”.

But many in Hong Kong complain those freedoms have been eroded in recent years, leading to nearly three months of street protests in 2014 – known as the umbrella revolution – and to the election in September this year of six politicians pushing for greater autonomy for the city.

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On Monday the UK expressed concern at Beijing’s latest move. “We urge the Chinese and Hong Kong SAR Governments, and all elected politicians in Hong Kong to refrain from any actions that fuel concerns or undermine confidence in the “one country, two systems” principle,” a foreign office spokeswoman told Reuters.

“Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability depends on its successful implementation, as provided for by the joint declaration and basic law,” she said.

About 13,000 marched on Sunday to protest against China’s intervention, ending in clashes with police outside Beijing’s main presence in the city and four arrests.

China’s move to bar the two young legislators sets up a new battle between pro-Beijing and pro-democracy camps as a fresh round of elections will be held to replace Leung and Yau.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ong-pro-independence-politicians-crisis-grows

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## dray

grey boy 2 said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, those US NGO backed criminals were all crushed before the they able to see the sunlight next morning, try getting your orgasm next time perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crushed like ants





grey boy 2 said:


> happy now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say hi to the HK police, "TRAITORS
> 
> In HK, the most despised creatures are those "white hearted wannabe" like .......guess we got a textbook example right here





grey boy 2 said:


> *Violence breaks out at HK protests as police use pepper spray on demonstrators*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it "TRAITORS" taste good?





Kyle Sun said:


> Just send those sycophants to UK.
> I am fed up with those pussies.





long_ said:


> *Did the United States not have a shooting case recently?
> 
> 
> 
> *





long_ said:


>



Be safe @Chinese-Dragon , is @Genesis also from Hong Kong?


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## Pangu

Good. Ban these god damn motherfukers. Pro-democracy? Hahahahaha, diu nei lo mo!

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## dray

grey boy 2 said:


> If i were you, i would more worried about your "FAKED INDIAN ASYLUM SEEKERS" natural born criminals bros for committing organized crimes on a daily basis, the rioters HATE anything that ain't white, does "curry bashing" from Australia ring a bell?



I am worried about safety of the people of Hong Kong, not interested in measuring 'more or less'...

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## terranMarine

Let me guess, Bussard wants to lecture China on how to govern a country just like the Indian democratic way

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## Mufflerman

The only good to come out of this is that Taiwanese know what not to do

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## Bussard Ramjet

terranMarine said:


> Let me guess, Bussard wants to lecture China on how to govern a country just like the Indian democratic way



Oh no. I think this was long time coming. 

Rather I think China should immediately declare and perform actions that integrates HK into China. It should immediately announce that after 2047, HK will be completely integrated into China, like Shanghai.

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## bbccdd1470

Rain Man said:


> I am worried about safety of the people of Hong Kong, not interested in measuring 'more or less'...


Don't worry about it. We are well protected by the HK police.

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## terranMarine

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Oh no. I think this was long time coming.
> 
> Rather I think China should immediately declare and perform actions that integrates HK into China. It should immediately announce that after 2047, HK will be completely integrated into China, like Shanghai.



O'really?  , don't worry China will take actions when the time comes in fact it has already taken some appropriate actions after those 2 traitors insulted our nation and its people. Even some pan democratic people are disgusted by the actions of those two.



grey boy 2 said:


> I believe first thing first, eliminate "PUBLIC ENEMY" no 1 "Made in India Criminals" faked Indian asylum seekers" should be the urgent priority, otherwise there will be no more acha in HK anymore



Absolutely, those fake Indian asylum seekers must be kicked back to democratic India. That's where the land of the freedom is, HK is not worthy of harboring cow pee drinkers or open sh!tters

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## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

For the overall safety and wellbeing of american, australian, british, and new zealanders military personnels in HK from these rogue and unreasonable HK anti-PRC protesters, ... ...

  

effective immediately -- a *Short term BAN of entering HK and making usn ships stopovers in HK -- is in place for all american, australian, british, and new zealanders military personnels and diplomats until the year 2025*.
Those american, australian, british, and new zealanders military personnels and diplomats that are already entering HK -- they all shall be deported immediately using their own money.

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## boxer_B

Moved by riots in the most prosperous city of most prosperous nation who study in best universities of world at home and bag maximum patents and, last but not the least, are highest IQ race on earth. I thought HKers would have been celebrating cz-5 launch. 
Nevertheless, I hope everything goes back to normal soon.

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## vostok

I am glad that Chinese authorities are acting with these morons as it should be. Riot is the way to misery and ruin. It is proved in Ukraine.

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## GCTom

Pangu said:


> Good. Ban these god damn motherfukers. Pro-democracy? Hahahahaha, diu nei lo mo!



This decision is not only Por-democracy, but also pro-Hong Kong and pro-China.

Hong Kong is governed by the Basic laws, which agreed on by Hong Kong and China. Yau and Sixtus not only broke the Basic Laws but also attacked Chinese people, and all other people that have suffered under war atracities, all over the whole. Just imagine an Israeli lawmaker starting an oath swear-in by starting with "Hail Hitler" and then verbally abuse the Jewish people; This is basically what Yau and Sixtus did.

It is good that China made this right choice and don't let scums like these people hold set of power.

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## 帅的一匹

No country in this world will let a seperatist to be a senator.

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## grey boy 2

*China tells foreign countries not to intervene in Hong Kong affairs *
(Xinhua) 19:54, November 07, 2016





China said on Monday foreign countries should not intervene in Hong Kong affairs as foreign media voiced concerns following Chinese top legislature's interpretation of the Basic Law of Hong Kong.

The move came in the wake of a handful of legislators-elect publicly advocating "Hong Kong independence" and insulting the Chinese nation at the swearing-in ceremony for the sixth Legislative Council of Hong Kong last month.

"We hope the international community can recognize the true colors of the pro-independence forces, and fully understand the necessity and legitimacy of the interpretation by the top legislature," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said at a regular news briefing.

"Hong Kong is a special administrative region under the Chinese central government, and its affairs fall within China's domestic domain and should be free from foreign intervention," Lu said.

The pro-independence forces' attempt to separate Hong Kong from China is against the law and the people's will, and damages China's sovereignty and security and the interests of Hong Kong and foreign countries, the spokesperson said.

Lu called on the international community to support the Chinese central government and Hong Kong government to safeguard national sovereignty, security and unity, and preserve the long-term prosperity and stability of Hong Kong.



_*Related: China adopts interpretation of Basic Law of Hong Kong SAR*_

China's top legislature on Monday adopted an interpretation of Article 104 of the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) by a unanimous vote.

*Interpretation shows firm opposition to "Hong Kong independence": top legislator*

China's top legislator Zhang Dejiang on Monday said the adoption of the interpretation of the Basic Law of Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) showcases the firm opposition of the central authorities to "Hong Kong independence."


*(For the latest China news, Please follow People's Daily on Twitter and Facebook)*(Web editor: Jiang Jie, Bianji)
http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/1107/c90000-9138365.html

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## TaiShang

*China adopts interpretation to Basic Law of Hong Kong SAR*
Xinhua, November 7, 2016




Zhang Dejiang (C), chairman of the National People's Congress (NPC) Standing Committee, attends the third plenary meeting of the bimonthly session of the NPC Standing Committee in Beijing, capital of China, Nov. 5, 2016.

China's top legislature on Monday adopted an interpretation of Article 104 of the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) by a unanimous vote.

Article 104 of the Basic Law stipulates: *"When assuming office, the chief executive, principal officials, members of the executive council and of the legislative council, judges of courts at all levels and other members of the judiciary in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region must, in accordance with law, swear to uphold the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China and swear allegiance to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China."*

According to the interpretation of Article 104 of the Basic Law, "To uphold the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China" and to bear "allegiance to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People' s Republic of China" are not only the legal content which must be included in the oath prescribed by the Article, but also the legal requirements and preconditions for standing for election in respect of or taking up the public office specified in the Article.

Oath taking is the legal prerequisite and required procedure for public officers specified in the Article to assume office, it said.

*No public office shall be assumed, no corresponding powers and functions shall be exercised, and no corresponding entitlements shall be enjoyed by anyone who fails to lawfully and validly take the oath or who declines to take the oath, it spelled out.*

An oath taker must take the oath sincerely and solemnly, and must accurately, completely and solemnly read out the oath prescribed by law, the content of which includes "will uphold the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China, bear allegiance to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People' s Republic of China", according to the interpretation.

An oath taker is disqualified forthwith from assuming the public office specified in the Article if he or she declines to take the oath, the interpretation said.

*An oath taker who intentionally reads out words which do not accord with the wording of the oath prescribed by law, or takes the oath in a manner which is not sincere or not solemn, shall be treated as declining to take the oath. The oath so taken is invalid and the oath taker is disqualified forthwith from assuming the public office specified in the Article, it added.*

The oath must be taken before the person authorized by law to administer the oath. The person administering the oath has the duty to ensure that the oath is taken in a lawful manner, the interpretation read.

The taking of the oath stipulated by Article 104 of the Basic Law is a legal pledge made by the public officers specified in the Article and is legally binding, it said.

The oath taker must sincerely believe in and strictly abide by the relevant oath prescribed by law. An oath taker who makes a false oath, or, who, after taking the oath, engages in conduct in breach of the oath, shall bear legal responsibility in accordance with law, it added.


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## TaiShang

Well, the boss finally decided to speak up. Speak softly but carry a big stick. China way.

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## Mufflerman

But of course


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## Nan Yang

I tell you..... Chinese rule in Hong Kong will collapse because of demographic dividend.


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## nang2

people should stop using the word like "pro-democracy" to describe those people. They have no respect to law. Lawless democracy is just another word for anarchy.

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## haidian

I do believe that the central government should cancel Hong Kong's special status, Hong Kong is fast falling to beome a second class Chinese city after being overtaken first by Shanghai and then by Beijing. What's the point to keep it special, it's now more of an anti China base camp than anything else. Just give that city back to Guangdong province and let Guangdong deal with it.Deport those Indian Hong Kongers back to India.

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## terranMarine

haidian said:


> I do believe that the central government should cancel Hong Kong's special status, Hong Kong is fast falling to beome a second class Chinese city after being overtaken first by Shanghai and then by Beijing. What's the point to keep it special, it's now more of an anti China base camp than anything else. Just give that city back to Guangdong province and let Guangdong deal with it.Deport those Indian Hong Kongers back to India.



HK would be a better place by applying Mainland laws. Kick those foreign judges out, punish those troublemakers with harsh Chinese laws that will teach those traitors. I don't know why Indians and Viets like to flood into HK when the freedom can only be found in their own country.

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## oprih

These two wannabe lawmakers should be put to jail for treason, their violent thug supporters should be arrested too.

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## beijingwalker

Hong Kongers are so spoiled by the central government for decades and behave like a cheeky brat. They curse and attack main lander Chinese shoppers and get hated by the whole Chinese population. It's time to give them so serious spanking.

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## lcloo

If these separatists were from any of the ten ASEAN countries instead of Hong Kong, you can bet they will be locked behind bars immediately. Wonder how South Asian countries treat their separatists?

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## beijingwalker

The very moment they alienated the 1.3 fellow Chinese people, their cause was doomed. Every person in China is so much sick and tired of their stuck up attitude and spoiled behavior, all people in China want serious crackdown on them.

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## edy

govt of CHINA should just round all the protester and put them on a boat on their way to UK or USA, minus their passport and belonging, these protester is a disgrace to all chinese.

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## beijingwalker

*Hong Kong: Large pro-China rally against independence*
By Helier CheungBBC News, Hong Kong

13 November 2016






Tens of thousands of pro-China protesters have rallied in Hong Kong, expressing anger at calls for the territory's independence.

Demonstrators waved Chinese flags, and chanted "oppose Hong Kong independence; support Beijing's ruling".

Last week, the Chinese government issued a rare ruling on Hong Kong's law, effectively disqualifying two pro-independence lawmakers from parliament.

Critics say Beijing's intervention has undermined Hong Kong's rule of law.

The row over pro-independence legislators Sixtus Leung and Yau Wai-ching has highlighted deep divisions in the territory, which was handed back to China from the British in 1997, under a promise that it would enjoy a high degree of autonomy.

Organisers of Sunday's pro-China protest say 40,000 people attended the rally outside Hong Kong's parliament, while police estimate 28,500 people were there at the peak of the demonstration.

Maggie Chan, a spokeswoman for an alliance who organised the protests, said she opposed attempts "to separate Hong Kong from our motherland".

"So many people are very angry because the pro-independence force is a destructive force that is against the rule of law in Hong Kong," Ms Chan told the BBC.

Last week, pro-democracy groups organised a march against Beijing's ruling, accusing it of abusing its power to block two democratically elected legislators from taking their seats.

Protest organiser Au Ngok-hin told the BBC that Ms Yau and Mr Leung's actions may be "inappropriate", but that China's ruling would "deteriorate Hong Kong's rule of law".

Organisers said about 13,000 people took part in that march, while police put the number at 8,000 at the protest's peak.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37966835

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## ahojunk

I strongly suggest putting these two good for nothing idiots in jail with a long sentence.

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## beijingwalker

*Hong Kong Large Pro-China Rally*
*



*

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## AndrewJin

ahojunk said:


> I strongly suggest putting these two good for nothing idiots in jail with a long sentence.


Treason can be treated with death penalty in China.

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## beijingwalker



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## AndrewJin

This is China vs West

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

There looks like a generational divide in Hong Kong. The young population is too shallow, too much a stranger to the hardships and bitterness that the older generation went through. Thus their propensity to sell out the Chinese people in the name of false western values. They dont know shit about how good they have it.

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## beijingwalker

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> There looks like a generational divide in Hong Kong. The young population is too shallow, too much a stranger to the hardships and bitterness that the older generation went through. Thus their propensity to sell out the Chinese people in the name of false western values. They dont know shit about how good they have it.


Young people like wild parties and anything to show their defiance. To them protest and demonstrations are great parties which you really enjoy, just refer to what happened in the 60's in US, Hippies were like today's young Hong Kongers.

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## Bussard Ramjet

AndrewJin said:


> This is China vs West



Yes it is, and that is why Chinas aim should be to be bigger than the west combined.

Don't compete with America, compete with the west, because that will be the real challenge. 

That is why I have repeatedly said that china is doing a blunder by reducing its population.


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## DCS

Bussard Ramjet said:


> That is why I have repeatedly said that china is doing a blunder by reducing its population.



Listening to you would be a blunder.

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## Bussard Ramjet

DCS said:


> Listening to you would be a blunder.



Lol how?


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## DoTell

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Lol how?


He meant to say it'd be a real blunder for China if we listen to the big mouth good for nothing Indians like you. Sorry, you asked for it. Still laughing? Good for you

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## Bussard Ramjet

DoTell said:


> He meant to say it'd be a real blunder for China if we listen to the big mouth good for nothing Indians like you. Sorry, you asked for it. Still laughing? Good for you



Arrogance has always taken down nations. Japan first thought that it is superior to Chinese and others, where is it today? Japan thought that population is no good, where is it now today? Hitler thought he can invade everyone where is he today? Racism and superiority only breeds arrogance and complacency which leads to

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Arrogance has always taken down nations. Japan first thought that it is superior to Chinese and others, where is it today? Japan thought that population is no good, where is it now today? Hitler thought he can invade everyone where is he today? Racism and superiority only breeds arrogance and complacency which leads to



Why choose Japan and Germany? The two worst perpetrators of atrocities in the 20th century. 

No need to compare with them, America must first be beaten and then the entire west. China needs to be bigger than the eight nation alliance that preyed on the weakened Qing dynasty. Until then, there is much to learn.

Xi Jinping said yesterday

"to unite all that can be united and mobilise all that can be mobilised to carry on the pursuit of a rejuvenated China. "

Does this sound complacent to you?



Bussard Ramjet said:


> Lol how?



You want China to be like India. Shudder.

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## Beast

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Lol how?


How? Look at India and China comparison. Or you want to use the snail and hare theory? Or the BS theory that this stock for upkeeping for 50 years will eventually gain profit?

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## powastick

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Arrogance has always taken down nations. Japan first thought that it is superior to Chinese and others, where is it today? Japan thought that population is no good, where is it now today? Hitler thought he can invade everyone where is he today? Racism and superiority only breeds arrogance and complacency which leads to


White man conqured India, and the New World, look at where they are today.

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## Beast

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Arrogance has always taken down nations. Japan first thought that it is superior to Chinese and others, where is it today? Japan thought that population is no good, where is it now today? Hitler thought he can invade everyone where is he today? Racism and superiority only breeds arrogance and complacency which leads to


You mean you Indians? Indeed. That is why India is backward compare to China despite same year of modernization started. Bragging and arrogant will lead you no where and this is what Indian deserve(Left far behind compare to China)!






Looks like bragging and arrogant mentality of Indians is deep rooted. Not that I maligned you but is proven fact.

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## Bussard Ramjet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Why choose Japan and Germany? The two worst perpetrators of atrocities in the 20th century.
> 
> No need to compare with them, America must first be beaten and then the entire west. China needs to be bigger than the eight nation alliance that preyed on the weakened Qing dynasty. Until then, there is much to learn.
> 
> Xi Jinping said yesterday
> 
> "to unite all that can be united and mobilise all that can be mobilised to carry on the pursuit of a rejuvenated China. "
> 
> Does this sound complacent to you?
> 
> 
> 
> You want China to be like India. Shudder.



For beating the west you must have a population atleast twice their population. And you are trying to reduce your population!


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## Offshore

Bussard Ramjet said:


> For beating the west you must have a population atleast twice their population. And you are trying to reduce your population!



Twice the population? Where is this coming from ??? 

You think it's all about number? No wonder you Indian living in sh*t hole..

To all Chinese member here, no need to educated Indian... their stupidity and ignorance is our gain..

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## Beast

Offshore said:


> Twice the population? Where is this coming from ???
> 
> You think it's all about number? No wonder you Indian living in shit hole..
> 
> To all Chinese member here, no need to educated Indian... their stupidity and ignorance is our gain..



They cannot be educated but we just like to ridicule them and tear off their fake lies.

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## Bussard Ramjet

Offshore said:


> Twice the population? Where is this coming from ???
> 
> You think it's all about number? No wonder you Indian living in shit hole..
> 
> To all Chinese member here, no need to educated Indian... their stupidity and ignorance is our gain..



Which dream are you living in? China is presently at 8000 dollars per capita GDP. It will have to have a GDP per capita greater than the west to beat it with the same population.


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## nang2

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Which dream are you living in? China is presently at 8000 dollars per capita GDP. It will have to have a GDP per capita greater than the west to beat it with the same population.


Very true. That is why China is a developing country and will remain so for a long time.


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## Nan Yang

Bussard Ramjet said:


> For beating the west you must have a population atleast twice their population. And you are trying to reduce your population!



Keep growing your population like rats.
Watch the consequences.

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## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

@Bussard Ramjet

I am happy that ... ...
More and more Chinese across the globe are realizing that PRC mortal enemies
are combined power and resources of ( usa, Japan, India, aussie ) + ( UK, France ).

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## Nan Yang

ahojunk said:


> I strongly suggest putting these two good for nothing idiots in jail with a long sentence.


Hit them where it hurts the most... their wallet.
Until they are bankrupt.

That's how they do it in Singapore.

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## Jlaw

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Lol how?


indians were good servants of white men.



Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> @Bussard Ramjet
> 
> I am happy that ... ...
> More and more Chinese across the globe are realizing that PRC mortal enemies
> are combined power and resources of ( usa, Japan, India, aussie ) + ( UK, France ).



Most Chinese already know. Just like every nation there will be some western asshole reamers who have been raise into believing the west is strong like 1839. In reality the west, particular US is dying. Trump know this and trying to reverse the process. But too late. The bankers almost sucked all the US blood. They are doomed. 

Philippines and Malaysia know this, thus they are turning away from US.



ahojunk said:


> I strongly suggest putting these two good for nothing idiots in jail with a long sentence.


These two idiots are not in HK parliament anymore. Stupid young punks lost a 90,000 hkd/ month easy paying job.

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## Nan Yang

Bussard Ramjet said:


> For beating the west you must have a population atleast twice their population. And you are trying to reduce your population!


http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2016/07/19/can-china-get-rich-after-getting-old/

quote...
Our study also suggests that in recent years, entering the high-income country grouping has been more probable from an ageing population base than from countries that are home to younger populations, as in the case of Japan and South Korea’s transitions. This implies that ageing China may have a better chance of reaching high-income status than is feared.

Comparisons of China with countries that have recently ascended to the high-income bracket in the presence of an ageing population — such as the Czech Republic, Russia, Slovakia and Uruguay — also point toward optimism in China’s broader chance of reaching its high-income grouping aspirations. *For example, China’s research and development investment level as a share of GDP is now above the level of countries having recently entered the high-income group, and the country’s technology exports are above even the OECD average.*

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## rott

Bussard Ramjet said:


> For beating the west you must have a population atleast twice their population. And you are trying to reduce your population!


You're one of the sane members of India. But can you elaborate on the population thing?


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## PakistaniNawab

In summary china is amazing

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## beijingwalker

jetray said:


> , why have a pro-china rally in china?


That's western media misconception, they are always confused about Hong Kong's identity, the title should be pro government.

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## 艹艹艹

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ousands-turn-out-decry-hong-kong-independence
*Thousands turn out to decry Hong Kong independence*
Marchers take to streets day after Beijing’s top man in city slams ‘blasphemy’ in Legco oath-taking

PUBLISHED : Monday, 14 November, 2016, 12:24am
UPDATED : Monday, 14 November, 2016, 1:12am

COMMENTS:155







11 Nov 2016
Opponents of Hong Kong independence staged a show of force yesterday as thousands of people took to the streets around the government headquarters in one of the largest rallies of its kind in recent years.

The demonstration, which organisers said was attended by more than 40,000 people, followed a withering attack on separatism by Beijing’s top man in the city, Zhang Xiaoming, who upped the ante in the controversy over the Legislative Council oath- taking saga.

Zhang accused localist lawmakers of “blasphemy” against the oaths and of treating the wider Hong Kong community like “idiots”.


Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying also warned in a rare interview with Xinhua that his government would not allow independence advocates to “appear in the city’s political system”, including the Legislative Council and civil service, or to spread their ideas in schools.

Leung also hinted that he would seek re-election, as he claimed that he had achieved much of his election promises four years ago, and now Hong Kong “needs to continue with the work” he started.

At the rally outside the Legco complex in Admiralty yesterday, protesters also voiced their support for Beijing’s ruling last week that lawmakers who failed to take the Legislative Council oath “sincerely” would face disqualification.

The rally’s organiser, the Anti-Hong Kong Independence Alliance, said more than 40,000 attended the rally .






The police said the turnout peaked at 28,500.

Controversy first erupted on October 12 when Younspiration duo Sixtus Baggio Leung Chung-hang and Yau Wai-ching swore allegiance to the “Hong Kong nation” and mimicked a derogatory term used by the Japanese during wartime to insult China during their oath-taking.

Their actions prompted China’s top legislative body to issue a ruling on November 7 that stated lawmakers would face instant disqualification for failing to take their oaths when being sworn in “sincerely”.

Mok Ka-kit, a student at City University, applied for a judicial review in the High Court last month over the legality of the oaths taken by the Youngspiration pair. Speaking at the rally in Admiralty yesterday, Mok vowed to revise his writ to challenge the legality of other democratic lawmakers, who chanted slogans after finishing their oaths.

Attending the rally, Tin Shui Wai resident Mr Cheng, 72, said: “I was born during the Japanese occupation of Hong Kong, I was very angry about [Baggio Leung and Yau] ... I think those lawmakers who shouted slogans should be disqualified too.”

Another attendee, who only identified himself as Mr Cheung, said he brought along his son “to let him know that Hong Kong must be governed in accordance with law”.

The alliance organiser Stanley Ng Chau-pei said the rally “showed the world that we are determined to safeguard territorial integrity”.

He added that there were over 10,000 people who could not attend the rally because the venue was too crowded.

The demonstration came a day after Zhang spoke at the Beijing-friendly Pui Kiu Middle School’s 70th anniversary dinner in Wan Chai on Saturday.

The dinner was closed to media, but according to a copy of the speech released on the central government’s liaison office’s website, Zhang addressed the topic of “lawmakers-elect who publicly advocated Hong Kong independence”.

“Unless they are assuming all people are idiots, they could not deny that they went against the procedure and blasphemed the oath’s content,” he said.

He described the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress as taking “necessary action in accordance with law and its responsibility”.

On Friday, President Xi Jinping called for national unity in a strongly worded speech, vowing to oppose separatism in any form and taking aim at Taiwan and independence sentiment in Hong Kong.

“We will never allow anyone, any organisation, any party to split off any tract of territory from China any time, or in any way,” Xi said.

Zhang said Xi’s speech was to date “the sternest warning against separatist forces in Taiwan and Hong Kong”.

The senior official said the oath-taking controversy as well as some Hongkongers’ opposition to the Basic Law were reminders that “we need to pay attention to the issue of patriotic education in schools”.

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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> These two idiots are not in HK parliament anymore. Stupid young punks lost a 90,000 hkd/ month easy paying job.


So true, it only needs about twenty thousand votes to get in the LegCo of HK, especially for now you don't need field experience, knowledge and wisdom. What you need for those idiots vote for you is keep yelling "HK independent" and throwing bricks. They really killed off their easy paying job with their immaturity, but the worse is they are now the enemy of all patriot Chinese and with their un-apologizing attitude no one is going to hire them. The only good they have done is giving CCP an excuse to clean up the traitors in our LegCo. Their doomsday is coming.

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## 52051

Most of the so-called Pro independence Hong Kongese are merely vietnam boat refugees, just by looking at their faces you can figure that out.


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## TaiShang

*NPC interpretation a blow to HK extremists *

Source: Global Times Published: 2016/11/7 22:58:40

The National People's Congress (NPC) Standing Committee issued an interpretation of Article 104 of the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region on Monday, based on which, newly elected members of the Legislative Council (LegCo) who advocated "Hong Kong independence" and disgraced the country and people shall lose their eligibility to become lawmakers. There is no question that Leung Chung-hang and Yau Wai-ching will be expelled from the LegCo. 

Hong Kong public officers in future must take the oath strictly in accordance with the law. *Anyone who desecrates the swearing-in ceremony will be disqualified and they shall assume legal responsibility should a false oath be sworn or the oath be violated. *

The NPC interpretation has the same legal effect as the Basic Law and should be implemented without any reservation. The Hong Kong public and the whole of Chinese society will endorse it, and support the central government to crack down in accordance with the Constitution of the People's Republic of China and the Basic Law on unbridled provocations by pro-independence forces. 

*A handful of radicals incited a protest on Sunday afternoon. The Hong Kong police said about 8,000 turned out and the opposition forces put the protest numbers at 11,000, while after Leung and Yau uttered a profanity at the swearing-in ceremony at the LegCo last month, more than 1 million people signed an online petition demanding the immediate disqualification of the two as lawmakers. *

Their clumsy performance at the oath-taking ceremony has hit the bottom line of the Basic Law and the Constitution. If their pro-independence acts are appeased, Hong Kong will be led to a dead end, with its stability and prosperity ruined. 

A chaotic Hong Kong is by no means what the general public of the city hopes to see, nor is it the desire of Chinese society. The reality that a few Hong Kong public officers are bold in uttering unconstitutional remarks reflects that the foundation of the rule of law in the region is being eroded by some radical forces. As small as their number is, they are creating waves to mislead the public. At this critical juncture, it's of vital importance that the central government takes resolute action to make order out of confusion. 

*It's noticeable that extreme forces are not welcomed by the majority of Hongkongers. China's rise and the improving ties between China and the West has restrained the international anti-China forces from meddling into Hong Kong affairs. The failure of Hong Kong political extremists is expected. *

The NPC interpretation doesn't set up any additional principles for Hong Kong. It has only re-emphasized the bottom line of the Constitution and the Basic Law and cleared up some ambiguities. We believe the central government will take a more clear-cut and firm attitude on issues concerning the bottom line in future. This will help ensure the smooth implementation of "one country, two systems." It's time for Hong Kong's extreme opposition to renew their understanding and reassess the situation. Confronting the Basic Law and the Constitution is doomed to fail.

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## TaiShang

*Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect makes debut*
(Xinhua) 20:02, December 05, 2016




Photo taken on Dec. 5, 2016 shows a poster about the launching of the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect in a securities company in Shenzhen, south China's Guangdong Province. The Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect, the second link between bourses in the Chinese mainland and Hong Kong, made a debut on Monday. (Xinhua/Wang Dongzhen)

The Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect, the second link between bourses in the Chinese mainland and Hong Kong, made a debut on Monday.

Stocks in both bourses of Shenzhen and Hong Kong closed slightly lower Monday afternoon. As of the close, only 1.059 billion RMB of the daily quota for southbound trading (10.5 billion RMB) and 2.711 billion RMB of the quota for northbound trading (13 billion RMB), were used up.

HKEX Chief Executive Charles Li said at a launch ceremony that he did not expect a sharp rise in turnover shortly after the launch, since "the openness of China's market is already at a high level" because a similar link between the Shanghai and Hong Kong bourses has been launched in 2014.

The significance of launching the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect lies in "demonstrating China's most innovative industries and enterprises to investors in the world", Li stressed.

Grand ceremonies were held simultaneously Monday morning at Hong Kong and Shenzhen bourses via video link as Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing (HKEX) Chairman Chow Chung-kong and Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying jointly beat a gong to mark the launch.

"Following the footsteps of Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect ... Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect is yet another milestone in deepening mutual access between the capital markets in the Chinese mainland and Hong Kong," Leung said at the ceremony.

Compared with Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, the new scheme between Shenzhen and Hong Kong represents "an enhanced version" in terms of its expanded scope of eligible securities, as well as the lift of limits on aggregate quota upon its launch, Leung said.

The new scheme is aimed at giving global investors access to stocks in the tech-heavy Shenzhen market via Hong Kong bourse. A total of 417 stocks on the Stock Exchange of Hong Kong are eligible for trading, and 881 stocks are eligible on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange.

According to a recent research report by HSBC, since 70 percent of the enterprises listed in the Shenzhen bourse are from high-tech industries, the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect will provide global investors "unprecedented opportunities" to invest in the "future growth of China".

The Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect is exemplary of Hong Kong's combined advantages of "one country, two systems," he said.

"We are, indeed, a 'super-connector' between the rest of China and the rest of the world."

Li described the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect as "the second leg" for the stock markets in the Chinese mainland and Hong Kong, "Now we can walk, and then we can run."

HKEX said it is also considering to include the tradings of ETF, goods and bonds into similar "schemes of interconnectivity". (1 USD equals to 6.8830 RMB)




Liu Shiyu, chairman of the China Securities Regulatory Commission, addresses a launching ceremony of the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect in Shenzhen, south China's Guangdong Province, Dec. 5, 2016. The Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect, the second link between bourses in the Chinese mainland and Hong Kong, made a debut on Monday. (Xinhua)





Photo taken on Dec. 5, 2016 shows the interior of Shenzhen Stock Exchange after the launching of the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect in Shenzhen, south China's Guangdong Province. The Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect, the second link between bourses in the Chinese mainland and Hong Kong, made a debut on Monday. (Xinhua/Wang Dongzhen)

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## Keel

Congrats on the debut！
The bond-market connect is next or Shanghai-London?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Excellent.  We need a lot more of these financial reforms in the coming years.

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## ahojunk

*Shenzhen-HK Connect can aid market reform*
By Xu Weihong | Source:Global Times Published: 2016/12/13 0:13:39






_Illustration: Peter C. Espina/GT_​

As Fang Xinghai, vice chairman of China Securities Regulatory Commission, pointed out in a public speech, the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect's main aim is not at attracting foreign capital. More important is the introduction of overseas institutional investors into the mainland stock market which can help elevate overall quality, including establishing a higher requirement in the disclosure of market information and in governance structure of listed companies.

After more than 20 years of development, individual investors still represent the majority of participants in the A-share market - a situation mainly due to the insufficient diversity of institutional investors. The newly launched stock connect that bridges the mainland capital market with Hong Kong's, is expected to attract more institutional investors to further refine investment structure in the A-share market. Facing rising homogeneous competition among domestic securities companies, the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect has opened doors to new business which will allow the domestic securities industry to provide services to international investors, exchange communication and enhance integration in relevant ideologies and systems and make the Chinese capital markets' systems and regulations more market-oriented and internationalized.

China's stock market is never short of liquidity. Enormous accumulations of private capital have made each round of the "Chinese-style" bull market much more relentless than overseas markets. The most significant strategic importance of the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect by no means lies in promoting capital inflows into the A-share market that is already associated with big fluctuations, but in the yuan's internationalization, especially as the Chinese currency faces challenges in its exchange rate and interest rate. And the ultimate market challenge in the yuan's internationalization is the collision of the ideas of risk control from domestic and overseas financial institutions, which will eventually affect the stability of the yuan's exchange and interest rates. In this respect, Hong Kong plays an irreplaceable role in the true internationalization of the yuan in the bond market, money market and futures market, considering the city is one of the world's top three financial hubs, and is China's first choice of managing risk control in overseas markets.

At the same time, against the backdrop of further opening-up in China's stock market in this year's second half, tightening and intensive restrictions on home purchases have prompted a transparent decline in property transactions. Every round of adjustment in home-buying policies and big property price fluctuations has driven close market attention to capital flows. Since 2014, some market observers have described the heated development in China's stock market and property market as an alternating occurrence. As China's property policies reach an inflection point, speculative capital that was previously injected into the housing market is likely to move into the A-share market.

For the coming year, I won't jump to the conclusion that overseas stock markets, including Hong Kong, will face plenty of so-called black swan events, because looking into the movement of international asset prices following the US election of isolationist Donald Trump and Italy's vote against constitutional reform, financial investment managers across the globe have largely remained calm and rational. Yet in this respect, we need to be flexible in the use of international financial leverage and financial derivatives and seize the opportunity to facilitate Chinese capital into foreign markets via financial centers like Hong Kong.

However, the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect mainly serves as a channel that facilitates southbound capital. Increasing investment in overseas markets is necessary for a more globalized Chinese economy, and this will require more domestic investment banks to be market-based and have a global perspective. Over the past few years overseas investment under the Qualified Domestic Institutional Investors scheme initiated by those overseas returnees hasn't performed well as the public had expected. This was partly due to the financial cycle in the overseas markets, but more importantly can be attributed to the lack of domestic professional teams for managing overseas mutual funds. Following enhanced regulatory measures toward private funds, further development in the internationalization of China's asset management industry is anticipated.

Against the backdrop of mixed operations in the finance industry with a combination of investment banking, commercial banking and insurance businesses, China's reforms in financial regulation as well as in the integration of industrial capital and financial capital have lagged behind. Looking at the international community, the US and Europe have embarked on different paths in terms of regulating mixed operations. Hong Kong being the base of international financial institutions in Asia is well experienced in supervising financial activities from interdisciplinary perspectives. The Chinese mainland could learn from Hong Kong's regulatory experience via the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect to meet its demand for economic development.

_
The author is chief economist with AVIC Securities. __bizopinion@globaltimes.com.cn_


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## TaiShang

*Citizens rally to support union in Hong Kong*
Xinhua, January 2, 2017

Citizens in China's Hong Kong Special Administrative Region rallied on Sunday, the first day of the new year, to support union in Hong Kong.

*"I chose to attend the rally on Jan. 1, because I want to let my voice heard that I'm a Chinese and Hong Kong is a part of China -- this is a fact and can't be changed by anyone," said 30-year-old Chan Shiu-yan, while holding his mobile phone to video the event, which was organized by Defend Hong Kong Campaign, a patriotic group.*

Lam, who declined to provide her full name, brought her two grandsons to the rally. "I often teach them to be patriotic. We are Chinese, and this is the fact. It can help them understand it better, if I take them to such a rally to see many citizens are showing their love for the country and Hong Kong," she said.

Fu Chun-chung, chairman of Defend Hong Kong Campaign, said for 20 years, Hong Kong citizens have been understanding "one country, two systems" and the Basic Law better. But it is a fact that some people in Hong Kong are hurting Hong Kong's prosperity and stability.

He called for more measures to fight against the so-called "Hong Kong self-determination" and "Hong Kong independence."

Patrick Ko, chairman of another group Voice of Loving Hong Kong, said his group will organize more trips to the Chinese mainland to boost the youth's understanding of the country.

80-year-old Chak said he would attend patriotic activities whenever possible, though he has to take care of his wife most of the time.

"Not only me, my children and grandchildren are the same... The tradition must be passed down ... We are Chinese," he said.

"When I was young, I was quite poor and had to work very hard to earn a living. Now three of my grandsons are studying in college... You are young enough to have a promising future and don't get trapped by the 'Hong Kong independence' talks," he said.

@Chinese-Dragon , @grey boy 2

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## third eye

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ish-army-returns-hong-kong-its-all-ceremonial

Whisper it ... they’re back. Six months before Hong Kong marks 20 years since their departure on a rainswept night at the end of June 1997, the British army has returned to Hong Kong.

Before those who hanker for the old days break out the colonial flags, this is no turning back of the clock. The military intervention comes courtesy of the Hong Kong police.

In a move they would rather have kept quiet, the force have tapped into more than 150 years of pre-handover tradition to inject a bit of spit and polish into the job of restoring a reputation ravaged by recent events in the city.

At the invitation of the police, a four-strong team from the British Army School of Ceremonial arrived from Britain without fanfare earlier this month to conduct two weeks of training at the Hong Kong Police College in Aberdeen.

The move – described as pragmatic by one expert and which may risk ruffling a feather or two at the People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison – comes as the force prepares for some of the biggest official celebrations seen in the city since Britain relinquished control almost two decades ago.

In the first visit of its kind since 1997, a captain and a drill sergeant from the Scots Guards, a pipe-sergeant from the 4th Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and a drum-major from the Coldstream Guards have been putting police officers and members of other disciplined services through their paces.

Hailed as a “historic visit’’ by Britain’s official Forces TV which is beamed to UK servicemen and women at home and overseas – and who had a camera crew at the college to cover the training – news of it is nowhere to be found on the Hong Kong police website or in any official Hong Kong government publicity.










However, asked about the hush-hush visit, a spokesman for the force said: “A two-week training on ceremonial skills was given by officers from the British Army School of Ceremonial to 50 drill and musketry officers of the Hong Kong Police College as well as seven officers from other disciplined services in Hong Kong this month.

“In order for more officers to benefit from drill training with a view to enhancing their professionalism and standards, the force decided to invite officers from the school to provide training this year.

“*The Hong Kong Police Force have no plan to invite the People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison to give training on ceremonial skills as the drill movements and standards of the force have all along followed the British Army drill standard.”*

*Watch: British army trains Hong Kong’s ceremonial band*

A political scientist at the Chinese University, Professor Ma Ngok, said: *“For quite obvious reasons it is understandable that the Hong Kong police should try to keep this training visit as low key as possible.*

“They are caught in a difficult position. *For decades their training has followed the British model and they have to train officers. But they can’t call in the People’s Liberation Army because I am sure they don’t want to adopt PLA methods.”*

Britain’s Forces TV was much more effusive: “They’ve achieved a first in history – 12 police sergeants fluent in pacing, colours, and sword drills passing out from a bespoke training package.

“And it was all made possible by British instructors, who flew more than 6,000 miles to carry out the teaching. The Army’s school of ceremony were invited to help smarten up the Hong Kong police force.”

A report filed to the Forces TV website from the police college in Aberdeen said the force “holds its British-linked traditions dear and that’s why they’ve been so keen to host their UK visitors”, adding that the British military training team had “interacted with hundreds of police officers and recruits passing on their skills to continue a rich ceremonial tradition”.


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## Beast

third eye said:


> http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ish-army-returns-hong-kong-its-all-ceremonial
> 
> Whisper it ... they’re back. Six months before Hong Kong marks 20 years since their departure on a rainswept night at the end of June 1997, the British army has returned to Hong Kong.
> 
> Before those who hanker for the old days break out the colonial flags, this is no turning back of the clock. The military intervention comes courtesy of the Hong Kong police.
> 
> In a move they would rather have kept quiet, the force have tapped into more than 150 years of pre-handover tradition to inject a bit of spit and polish into the job of restoring a reputation ravaged by recent events in the city.
> 
> At the invitation of the police, a four-strong team from the British Army School of Ceremonial arrived from Britain without fanfare earlier this month to conduct two weeks of training at the Hong Kong Police College in Aberdeen.
> 
> The move – described as pragmatic by one expert and which may risk ruffling a feather or two at the People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison – comes as the force prepares for some of the biggest official celebrations seen in the city since Britain relinquished control almost two decades ago.
> 
> In the first visit of its kind since 1997, a captain and a drill sergeant from the Scots Guards, a pipe-sergeant from the 4th Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and a drum-major from the Coldstream Guards have been putting police officers and members of other disciplined services through their paces.
> 
> Hailed as a “historic visit’’ by Britain’s official Forces TV which is beamed to UK servicemen and women at home and overseas – and who had a camera crew at the college to cover the training – news of it is nowhere to be found on the Hong Kong police website or in any official Hong Kong government publicity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, asked about the hush-hush visit, a spokesman for the force said: “A two-week training on ceremonial skills was given by officers from the British Army School of Ceremonial to 50 drill and musketry officers of the Hong Kong Police College as well as seven officers from other disciplined services in Hong Kong this month.
> 
> “In order for more officers to benefit from drill training with a view to enhancing their professionalism and standards, the force decided to invite officers from the school to provide training this year.
> 
> “*The Hong Kong Police Force have no plan to invite the People’s Liberation Army Hong Kong Garrison to give training on ceremonial skills as the drill movements and standards of the force have all along followed the British Army drill standard.”*
> 
> *Watch: British army trains Hong Kong’s ceremonial band*
> 
> A political scientist at the Chinese University, Professor Ma Ngok, said: *“For quite obvious reasons it is understandable that the Hong Kong police should try to keep this training visit as low key as possible.*
> 
> “They are caught in a difficult position. *For decades their training has followed the British model and they have to train officers. But they can’t call in the People’s Liberation Army because I am sure they don’t want to adopt PLA methods.”*
> 
> Britain’s Forces TV was much more effusive: “They’ve achieved a first in history – 12 police sergeants fluent in pacing, colours, and sword drills passing out from a bespoke training package.
> 
> “And it was all made possible by British instructors, who flew more than 6,000 miles to carry out the teaching. The Army’s school of ceremony were invited to help smarten up the Hong Kong police force.”
> 
> A report filed to the Forces TV website from the police college in Aberdeen said the force “holds its British-linked traditions dear and that’s why they’ve been so keen to host their UK visitors”, adding that the British military training team had “interacted with hundreds of police officers and recruits passing on their skills to continue a rich ceremonial tradition”.



What a dumb article. The Head of Hong Kong Police Force listen to Governor of HK and in term obey the call of CPC. Trying to make a big fuss and claims its Hong Kong Police Force not wanting to invite PLA is nonsense. It's an propaganda article with twisted news to badmouth PRC

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## GS Zhou

Head of PLA Hong Kong Garrison inspects the Hong Kong police.

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## Nan Yang

*33,000 gather in support of Hong Kong officers jailed for beating up Occupy protester Ken Tsang*

Huge turnout threatens to escalate already significant chorus of criticism aimed at District Court Judge David Dufton and judiciary





Hong Kong witnessed one of the most significant mass demonstrations in its history last night when 33,000 serving and former police officers held a show of support for colleagues who were jailed for assaulting an activist during the 2014 Occupy protests.

The mass rally, held on a soccer pitch at the Police Sports and Recreation Club in Mong Kok, was described by one officer in attendance as “the largest-ever single gathering of police officers the world has ever seen”.

The last time the city’s police were involved in a such a large-scale display of discontent was almost half a century ago, in the bad old days of the 1970s. That was when thousands of officers took to the streets to protest against the setting up of the Independent Commission Against Corruption.

However, last night’s show of discontent – which was closed to the media – stood in stark contrast to the often ill-tempered nature of the 1970s protests. The massed ranks of mostly former police officers were out to register – with a disciplined dignity – their condemnation of what they believe to be the harsh and unjust treatment of seven colleagues by the city’s judicial system.

The remarkable scenes, with many turning up in white as a mark of solidarity, followed the jailing for two years of seven officers for assaulting Occupy activist Ken Tsang Kin-chiu, 41. The sentencing sparked an outpouring of condemnation by police officers and sections of the public, who complained that the courts were being far more lenient by comparison with Occupy protesters who broke the law.

Another officer at the rally, which included a significant number of family members of serving and ex-police officers, said: “This is not a protest against the courts or Hong Kong’s judicial system, nor an attempt to undermine the rule of law.

“It is a deep and heartfelt expression of genuine support for our colleagues and their families, who we feel have been unfairly treated and whose actions came out of a time of highly charged political emotion and stress.”

Prominent among those who made an appearance was former security minister Regina Ip Lau Suk-yee, now a candidate for the city’ top job, along with National People’s Congress deputy Maria Tam, who took to the stage and addressed the crowd, calling for assistance for the families of the seven jailed officers.

Other personalities attending included lawmakers Priscilla Leung Mei-fun, Elizabeth Quat and Junius Ho Kwan-yiu.

Despite Police Commissioner Stephen Lo Wai-chung’s sympathy for the jailed officers and earlier plea for public understanding of their predicament, none of the force’ s top brass turned up.

Insiders worry as anger at officers’ jailing for Ken Tsang beating spreads through Hong Kong police

It is believed that only serving officers up to the rank of chief superintendent took part. The Post had earlier been told that at least one former assistant commissioner would attend, but this could not be confirmed last night.

The huge turnout threatens to escalate an already significant chorus of criticism aimed at District Court Judge David Dufton and the judiciary as a whole.

Asked if the top brass were also in attendance, an officer at the meeting said: “No only up to Chief Superintendent level.”

The jailed officers, whose careers appear to be over, are: Chief Inspector Wong Cho-shing, 50; Senior Inspector Lau Cheuk-ngai, 31; Detective Sergeant Pak Wing-bun, 43; Constable Lau Hing-pui, 39; and detective constables Wong Wai-ho, 38, Chan Siu-tan, 33, and Kwan Ka-ho, 33.

Facts, hypocrisy and the outcry over police ‘abuse’ in Hong Kong

All denied assaulting Tsang, a social worker, in a dark corner of Tamar Park, Admiralty, on the night of October 15, 2014, at the height of the pro-democracy protests. But they were found guilty on one joint count of assault occasioning actual bodily harm, with Chan also convicted of common assault.

A TV news crew filmed the attack, which, when aired at the time, sparked outrage.

The seven officers last night remained behind bars in the city’s maximum security Stanley Prison.

Joe Chan Cho-kwong, chairman of the Junior Police Officers’ Association, said he was surprised by the number of people who showed up at the gathering.

He said his association and three other police staff associations – the Superintendents’ Association, the Police Inspectors’ Association and the Overseas Inspectors’ Association – would write to Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying urging legislation that would ban insulting acts against public officers on duty.

“We hope that all public officers would not be insulted in the future and the laws would not be just for the police, but for all public officers,” Chan said.

He expected it would be difficult to legislate, but said the government should strive to do something.

In response to the gathering, a police spokesman said force management understood the event had been organised by two concerned staff associations to report on what they had done to help their seven colleagues.

The spokesman added that management would continue to work with the associations to help the seven and their families.

He said the force would have an open mind on any new laws or measures that could ensure effective law enforcement.

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## Bussard Ramjet

Nan Yang said:


> 33,000 gather in support of Hong Kong officers jailed for beating up Occupy protester Ken Tsang
> 
> Huge turnout threatens to escalate already significant chorus of criticism aimed at District Court Judge David Dufton and judiciary
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong witnessed one of the most significant mass demonstrations in its history last night when 33,000 serving and former police officers held a show of support for colleagues who were jailed for assaulting an activist during the 2014 Occupy protests.
> 
> The mass rally, held on a soccer pitch at the Police Sports and Recreation Club in Mong Kok, was described by one officer in attendance as “the largest-ever single gathering of police officers the world has ever seen”.
> 
> The last time the city’s police were involved in a such a large-scale display of discontent was almost half a century ago, in the bad old days of the 1970s. That was when thousands of officers took to the streets to protest against the setting up of theIndependent Commission Against Corruption.
> 
> However, last night’s show of discontent – which was closed to the media – stood in stark contrast to the often ill-tempered nature of the 1970s protests. The massed ranks of mostly former police officers were out to register – with a disciplined dignity – their condemnation of what they believe to be the harsh and unjust treatment of seven colleagues by the city’s judicial system.
> 
> The remarkable scenes, with many turning up in white as a mark of solidarity, followed the jailing for two years of seven officers for assaulting Occupy activist Ken Tsang Kin-chiu, 41. The sentencing sparked an outpouring of condemnation by police officers and sections of the public, who complained that the courts were being far more lenient by comparison with Occupy protesters who broke the law.
> 
> Another officer at the rally, which included a significant number of family members of serving and ex-police officers, said: “This is not a protest against the courts or Hong Kong’s judicial system, nor an attempt to undermine the rule of law.
> 
> “It is a deep and heartfelt expression of genuine support for our colleagues and their families, who we feel have been unfairly treated and whose actions came out of a time of highly charged political emotion and stress.”
> 
> Prominent among those who made an appearance was former security ministerRegina Ip Lau Suk-yee, now a candidate for the city’ top job, along with National People’s Congress deputy Maria Tam, who took to the stage and addressed the crowd, calling for assistance for the families of the seven jailed officers.
> 
> Other personalities attending included lawmakers Priscilla Leung Mei-fun, Elizabeth Quat and Junius Ho Kwan-yiu.
> 
> Despite Police Commissioner Stephen Lo Wai-chung’s sympathy for the jailed officers and earlier plea for public understanding of their predicament, none of the force’ s top brass turned up.
> 
> Insiders worry as anger at officers’ jailing for Ken Tsang beating spreads through Hong Kong police
> 
> It is believed that only serving officers up to the rank of chief superintendent took part. The Post had earlier been told that at least one former assistant commissioner would attend, but this could not be confirmed last night.
> 
> The huge turnout threatens to escalate an already significant chorus of criticism aimed at District Court Judge David Dufton and the judiciary as a whole.
> 
> Asked if the top brass were also in attendance, an officer at the meeting said: “No only up to Chief Superintendent level.”
> 
> The jailed officers, whose careers appear to be over, are: Chief Inspector Wong Cho-shing, 50; Senior Inspector Lau Cheuk-ngai, 31; Detective Sergeant Pak Wing-bun, 43; Constable Lau Hing-pui, 39; and detective constables Wong Wai-ho, 38, Chan Siu-tan, 33, and Kwan Ka-ho, 33.
> 
> Facts, hypocrisy and the outcry over police ‘abuse’ in Hong Kong
> 
> All denied assaulting Tsang, a social worker, in a dark corner of Tamar Park, Admiralty, on the night of October 15, 2014, at the height of the pro-democracy protests. But they were found guilty on one joint count of assault occasioning actual bodily harm, with Chan also convicted of common assault.
> 
> A TV news crew filmed the attack, which, when aired at the time, sparked outrage.
> 
> The seven officers last night remained behind bars in the city’s maximum security Stanley Prison.
> 
> Joe Chan Cho-kwong, chairman of the Junior Police Officers’ Association, said he was surprised by the number of people who showed up at the gathering.
> 
> He said his association and three other police staff associations – the Superintendents’ Association, the Police Inspectors’ Association and the Overseas Inspectors’ Association – would write to Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying urging legislation that would ban insulting acts against public officers on duty.
> 
> “We hope that all public officers would not be insulted in the future and the laws would not be just for the police, but for all public officers,” Chan said.
> 
> He expected it would be difficult to legislate, but said the government should strive to do something.
> 
> In response to the gathering, a police spokesman said force management understood the event had been organised by two concerned staff associations to report on what they had done to help their seven colleagues.
> 
> The spokesman added that management would continue to work with the associations to help the seven and their families.
> 
> He said the force would have an open mind on any new laws or measures that could ensure effective law enforcement.




Just when is China going to show some spine and take some control over HK? 

The worst I feel is when random white people come in HK, and after some years, start advocating for HK independence. 

National Security Law should be strictly implemented in HK.

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## terranMarine

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Just when is China going to show some spine and take some control over HK?
> 
> The worst I feel is when random white people come in HK, and after some years, start advocating for HK independence.
> 
> National Security Law should be strictly implemented in HK.



As if they would succeed

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## TaiShang

*Dufton’s sentence of 7 HK policemen unfair*
By Shan Renping Source:Global Times Published: 2017/2/21


Seven Hong Kong police officers were sentenced to two years in prison by Judge David Dufton of the District Court of Hong Kong for beating an Occupy Central movement supporter in October 2014. Many disciplined services in Hong Kong were surprised by the length of imprisonment, and could not accept it. Some Hong Kong police officers expressed their desire for assistance from related associations and trade unions. The lawyer for the seven police officers is considering an appeal.

The Chinese mainland and Hong Kong practice the "one country, two systems" policy. Hong Kong has independent judicial power and the mainland cannot get involved in Dufton's judgment. 

*Unless Hong Kong Court of Final Appeal or the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region asks the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress to interpret the Basic Law, the handling of this case is Hong Kong's internal affair.*

However, this does not mean that mainland's media should keep silent. The Occupy Central movement is relevant to the mainland and the people in the mainland have a right to express their views on the case.

Many people think Dufton's rule is unfair. The Occupy Central movement led to great losses for Hong Kong. Many participants committed illegal acts. However, the heaviest penalty was given to the seven police officers, including two police officers who were not involved in the beating. For those who disrupted the order of Hong Kong and assaulted police officers, they were spared or received only short prison sentences.

*It seems that Dufton's sentence is influenced by political factors and will have real political impact.*

Occupy Central movement severely damaged Hong Kong's rule of law, and Dufton's sentence aggravated the damages. It will frustrate Hong Kong police but inspire Hong Kong's troublemakers to take more harmful actions in the name of "fighting for democracy."

Hong Kong's legal system has long been one of the city's most competitive sectors.* However, as the system is influenced by the city's colonial history, it lacks loyalty to the Chinese Constitution and the Basic Law.* So when dealing with political cases, the system is likely to depart from the basic spirit of law.

Such a situation is not in conformity with the fundamental interests of Hong Kong, and the basis of Hong Kong's judicial system will suffer from erosion.

Some events that have taken place in Hong Kong go against the process of its return to China. Some people may think it is a way to keep Hong Kong's distinctions. 

*However, the "one country, two systems" policy is a political arrangement for enabling Hong Kong's smooth transition to China, not for dragging Hong Kong away from China.*

There is still a period of time before Dufton's sentence comes into effect. It is hoped that the seven Hong Kong policemen can get a fair trial. This is not catering to the wishes of the mainland. It is for maintaining the authority of law in Hong Kong and its long-term stability.

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## samsara

*Things that outsiders can hardly understand about the HKSAR's intriguing detailed subtleties and perplexing Anglo-based legal system...

To start first, the troubling judge, David Dufton, is a British holding a GB passport in addition to a HKSAR's PR!*

Following are some excerpts from a HKSAR-based poster ("a HKSAR's Permanent Resident with Right of Abode") in some moderated circle:

_Beyond all the sound & fury, *what fundamentally binds HK to the Anglo Empire* is *the SAR's reliance on Common Law* and *the HKD's peg to the USD*. Without them, HK would be hard put to survive in its present form. This reality virtually ensures that the Empire will have a strong base in HK, from which to meddle in both local and China's national affairs. 

*Beijing, of course, understood this from Day 1.* And because HK was immensely and irreplaceably useful to the mainland in the early period of reform & opening up, China agreed to One Country, Two Systems. Explicitly, that meant Beijing would treat HK very differently from the rest of the country. Implicitly, it meant that the Anglo Empire and its agents & sympathizers would have much space in the SAR in which to operate.

HK's Basic Law, which enshrines OCTS, runs out in 2047. Beijing will likely decide what follows it in the years leading up to that expiry date. But if the anti-China forces cause enough disruption in the SAR, China may feel obliged to intervene before then. And if it did so forcibly (e.g., with the PLA), Beijing's enemies will have something to crow about for the next 50 years. 

The 2014 Occupy Central movement (and perhaps the 2016 Mongkok riots) was an orchestrated provocation to test the limits of Beijing's patience and tolerance. In other words, a kind of China-baiting trap.

During the time, reports circulated that PLA troops were on the move, in both HK and Shenzhen. Apparently, Xi Jinping then stepped in and gave the order himself: No crackdown. It proved the right decision. As the "occupation" dragged on, it lost public support and backfired on its instigators._

_Because HK isn't a sovereign country, the term "HK citizen" is not used. "Permanent resident with right of abode" is the highest form of "citizenship," with the broadest rights. 

HK, even as a Chinese SAR, has long had one of the most liberal employment policies in the world, *with foreigners (i.e., holders of foreign nationality/passports) eligible to serve in the government, legislature and judiciary. *In the judiciary, in fact, it was/is deemed that foreign judges would not only bring expertise to the bench but also a more "detached independence" of judgment in applying the law. As with One Country, Two Systems, such arrangements can cut both ways._​

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## Nan Yang

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Just when is China going to show some spine and take some control over HK?
> 
> The worst I feel is when random white people come in HK, and after some years, start advocating for HK independence.
> 
> National Security Law should be strictly implemented in HK.



Why China have to do anything ? China already holding all the cards.

What did the occupy protesters achieve beside pissing off the shop owners.
Then the pro independent candidates disqualified themselves by messing up the swearing in ceremony.
Then got hit in the wallet big time by the court.
Now they have anger the police.

Honestly there is nothing they can do except shooting themselves in the foot.

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## samsara

Nan Yang said:


> Why China have to do anything ? China already holding all the cards.
> 
> What did the occupy protesters achieve beside pissing off the shop owners.
> Then the pro independent candidates disqualified themselves by messing up the swearing in ceremony.
> Then got hit in the wallet big time by the court.
> Now they have anger the police.
> 
> Honestly there is nothing they can do except shooting themselves in the foot.



*Some more excerpts:*

_"There can be a possibility that the Chinese government would let HKSAR deteriorate to a point where the HKSAR people ask for Chinese intervention. Let the people there taste the bitterness of the toxic substances before handing out the cure! Then it can be decided what system suits HKSAR best!_
_
Hong Kong is a laizze faire semi-democratic capitalist economy. It's survival and growth is dependent on being allowed to continue as such. As far as China is concerned, HK has still its use even though it's exposed to sabotages by such western or other interests as they are free to be there. It's like having troublesome flies in when you open the window. Deng Xiaoping has wisely given it a fifty year run to exist as freely as it wants provided it doesn't endanger the mainland itself. It's too small to do so and the irony is that while it is relatively free, the western subversive shenanigans are easily seen by all whether supporters or otherwise of Chinese policies! _

_The other irony is that HKSAR denizens are really given a choice of what they desire. It appears that their capacity for bearing with chaos and order is like as regards to dust blowing in the wind. They probably have endured worse! It's the world's freest economy but not the most chaotic!"_
_
As they say and happen every where, the majority of people simply do not grasp the political matters, they do need leadership: the ten per cent leads and the other ninety follows. Even in such nations as Australia where some of the most educated and democratically fiesty people live, you get the ignorant many! Thus their choice for leaders can go awry!_​

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## samsara

*UPDATE: Commentary today by a senior editor at SCMP --*

_“More than two years after thousands of protesters blocked roads and broke multiple laws for 79 straight days in the name of democracy, this is the net result of justice so far: seven police officers behind bars and slaps on the wrist for everyone else. Not one of the leaders of the movement has been punished.

“Throughout the Occupy protests, frontline police officers were not only forced to stand by and watch people break the law with impunity, but also expected to protect the lawbreakers from irate members of the public whose livelihoods were affected by the road closures. Nobody was sure what was right or wrong any more …

“Never in my journalistic career have I seen this city facing such a crisis of confidence in the rule of law and law enforcement, the pillars that prevent us from sliding into certain ruin.”_

http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...risis-confidence-rule-law-and-law-enforcement

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## Bussard Ramjet

TaiShang said:


> *Dufton’s sentence of 7 HK policemen unfair*
> By Shan Renping Source:Global Times Published: 2017/2/21
> 
> 
> Seven Hong Kong police officers were sentenced to two years in prison by Judge David Dufton of the District Court of Hong Kong for beating an Occupy Central movement supporter in October 2014. Many disciplined services in Hong Kong were surprised by the length of imprisonment, and could not accept it. Some Hong Kong police officers expressed their desire for assistance from related associations and trade unions. The lawyer for the seven police officers is considering an appeal.
> 
> The Chinese mainland and Hong Kong practice the "one country, two systems" policy. Hong Kong has independent judicial power and the mainland cannot get involved in Dufton's judgment.
> 
> *Unless Hong Kong Court of Final Appeal or the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region asks the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress to interpret the Basic Law, the handling of this case is Hong Kong's internal affair.*
> 
> However, this does not mean that mainland's media should keep silent. The Occupy Central movement is relevant to the mainland and the people in the mainland have a right to express their views on the case.
> 
> Many people think Dufton's rule is unfair. The Occupy Central movement led to great losses for Hong Kong. Many participants committed illegal acts. However, the heaviest penalty was given to the seven police officers, including two police officers who were not involved in the beating. For those who disrupted the order of Hong Kong and assaulted police officers, they were spared or received only short prison sentences.
> 
> *It seems that Dufton's sentence is influenced by political factors and will have real political impact.*
> 
> Occupy Central movement severely damaged Hong Kong's rule of law, and Dufton's sentence aggravated the damages. It will frustrate Hong Kong police but inspire Hong Kong's troublemakers to take more harmful actions in the name of "fighting for democracy."
> 
> Hong Kong's legal system has long been one of the city's most competitive sectors.* However, as the system is influenced by the city's colonial history, it lacks loyalty to the Chinese Constitution and the Basic Law.* So when dealing with political cases, the system is likely to depart from the basic spirit of law.
> 
> Such a situation is not in conformity with the fundamental interests of Hong Kong, and the basis of Hong Kong's judicial system will suffer from erosion.
> 
> Some events that have taken place in Hong Kong go against the process of its return to China. Some people may think it is a way to keep Hong Kong's distinctions.
> 
> *However, the "one country, two systems" policy is a political arrangement for enabling Hong Kong's smooth transition to China, not for dragging Hong Kong away from China.*
> 
> There is still a period of time before Dufton's sentence comes into effect. It is hoped that the seven Hong Kong policemen can get a fair trial. This is not catering to the wishes of the mainland. It is for maintaining the authority of law in Hong Kong and its long-term stability.





Also, with the way things are, Hong Kong people are increasingly being driven away from China. 

China should do the following things: 

1. Declare that after 2047, Hong Kong will be a normal part of China, given equal status to cities like Shanghai, Beijing. 
2. For the remaining 30 years, keep taking gradual steps to integrate Hong Kong into China, like first stopping this bull shit of Hong Kong having an Olympics team. Then proceed to implementing national security laws, handling immigration etc.



Nan Yang said:


> Why China have to do anything ? China already holding all the cards.
> 
> What did the occupy protesters achieve beside pissing off the shop owners.
> Then the pro independent candidates disqualified themselves by messing up the swearing in ceremony.
> Then got hit in the wallet big time by the court.
> Now they have anger the police.
> 
> Honestly there is nothing they can do except shooting themselves in the foot.




Just so that you know, having random white people preaching that HK should be independent ain't good. 

Also, the young people in HK, who would form the future labor force, are even more radicalized, and proslytized.

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## yantong1980

Although Hong Kong could deal with this so called Occupy movement, this 'fifth column' people existence was worrysome.

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## terranMarine

Bussard Ramjet said:


> China should do the following things:
> 
> 1. Declare that after 2047, Hong Kong will be a normal part of China, given equal status to cities like Shanghai, Beijing.
> 2. For the remaining 30 years, keep taking gradual steps to integrate Hong Kong into China, like first stopping this bull shit of Hong Kong having an Olympics team. Then proceed to implementing national security laws, handling immigration etc.



When China agreed to 50 years unchanged after the handover, you think China is joking? After 2047 change is gonna happen so your advice of what China should do is pretty much a waste of energy because every Chinese know after 2047 things will be different in that city. China, HK government, HK law enforcers, patriotic HK people will make sure those NGO, disgusting British and American troublemakers shall never succeed. They underestimated the patriotic mentality of Chinese people. Those NGO can keep on spending money bribing some "influential" brainwashed Hongkongers but they will never achieve separatism. The biggest riot which lasted for 3 months didn't achieve a thing, that shows how strong the rule of law is.

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## Bussard Ramjet

terranMarine said:


> When China agreed to 50 years unchanged after the handover, you think China is joking? After 2047 change is gonna happen so your advice of what China should do is pretty much a waste of energy because every Chinese know after 2047 things will be different in that city. China, HK government, HK law enforcers, patriotic HK people will make sure those NGO, disgusting British and American troublemakers shall never succeed. They underestimated the patriotic mentality of Chinese people. Those NGO can keep on spending money bribing some "influential" brainwashed Hongkongers but they will never achieve separatism. The biggest riot which lasted for 3 months didn't achieve a thing, that shows how strong the rule of law is.




Actually try to read the polls on the opinion of young Hong Kongers, and you will be very very worried. 

Also, I am worried that China may extend the current arrangement in various forms after 2047. This would be very worrying.


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## terranMarine

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Actually try to read the polls on the opinion of young Hong Kongers, and you will be very very worried.
> 
> Also, I am worried that China may extend the current arrangement in various forms after 2047. This would be very worrying.



Well i'm confident  , we will see after 3 decades then

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## Bussard Ramjet

terranMarine said:


> Well i'm confident  , we will see after 3 decades then



Overconfidence is a recipe of disaster.

Till now, I'm seeing no spine in leadership in China, to try to stop the movement of Hong Kong away from China.


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## oprih

The people of Hong Kong has spoken, the ruling by the judge is a sham. I'm glad that the people are fully behind these police officers who defended Hong Kong from the groups and individuals trying to destabilize the city.

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## 70U63

Mainland got too much cards in their hand. HK is not going away. By improving the standard of Pearl River Delta region, HK status will reduce significantly as mainland will get stronger day by day, more HK people will go mainland for whatever opportunity. 
Young people are more naive. When they grow older and kind of understand how reality work, they will love the country back. If u live overseas, you will notice many mainland Chinese still love the country (although generally Chinese not really into politic). Young people mostly got nothing to loss.



Bussard Ramjet said:


> Overconfidence is a recipe of disaster.
> 
> Till now, I'm seeing no spine in leadership in China, to try to stop the movement of Hong Kong away from China.

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## Bussard Ramjet

70U63 said:


> Mainland got too much cards in their hand. HK is not going away. By improving the standard of Pearl River Delta region, HK status will reduce significantly as mainland will get stronger day by day, more HK people will go mainland for whatever opportunity.
> Young people are more naive. When they grow older and kind of understand how reality work, they will love the country back. If u live overseas, you will notice many mainland Chinese still love the country (although generally Chinese not really into politic). Young people mostly got nothing to loss.




Having too many cards means jack shit, if you don't have the ability or will to use them.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Just when is China going to show some spine and take some control over HK?
> 
> The worst I feel is when random white people come in HK, and after some years, start advocating for HK independence.
> 
> National Security Law should be strictly implemented in HK.



You guys are so clueless. 

China already took control of our city during the Handover in 1997, I remember because I was there with my entire family (though I was too young to remember very much).

There is no possibility of HK independence, that's simply not a practical reality. Hong Kong was never a country, our country has always been China.

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## terranMarine

Bussard is a delusional Hindu who thinks there's even a slight chance for a HK independence. Even Taiwan to this very day does not dare go independent.

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## Nan Yang

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Actually try to read the polls on the opinion of young Hong Kongers, and you will be very very worried.
> 
> Also, I am worried that China may extend the current arrangement in various forms after 2047. This would be very worrying.



First of all how on earth will Hong Kong become independent ? Its an impossibility. Gosh, you give these western NGOs and pro-independent too much credit.
Those pro-independent will just continue to piss off more and more people. 

And...young people WILL grow old. China just need to be calm and consistent.

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## rott

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You guys are so clueless.
> 
> China already took control of our city during the Handover in 1997, I remember because I was there with my entire family (though I was too young to remember very much).
> 
> There is no possibility of HK independence, that's simply not a practical reality. Hong Kong was never a country, our country has always been China.


In PDF New member registration, if you scroll down to the flag of Hong Kong, it says this, "Hong Kong, Province of China".

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## TaiShang

rott said:


> In PDF New member registration, if you scroll down to the flag of Hong Kong, it says this, "Hong Kong, Province of China".



As it should be.

One Country Two Systems is an historical anomaly waiting to be corrected.

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## Nilgiri

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I remember because I was there with my entire family (though I was too young to remember very much).



Guess you are lot younger than me hehe.

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## bbccdd1470

70U63 said:


> Mainland got too much cards in their hand. HK is not going away. By improving the standard of Pearl River Delta region, HK status will reduce significantly as mainland will get stronger day by day, more HK people will go mainland for whatever opportunity.
> Young people are more naive. When they grow older and kind of understand how reality work, they will love the country back. If u live overseas, you will notice many mainland Chinese still love the country (although generally
> Chinese not really into politic). Young people mostly got nothing to loss.



Well said, I don't worry about that too much. People won't stay young and naive forever, once they realized their actions have consequence, they will change. Of course, there will be people who are paid to cause trouble, but the rest will go back to their normal life. Even I doubt there will be another occupy movement, since many people have woken up realizing how badly they had been used, especially most people who participated in the occupy movement, are only unsatisfied with our government policy, but not to advocate HK independence. Not to mention, nothing has been gained but economic loss since the occupy movement. Many business gone broke and people got fired. General public opinion are against them, since their actions were not only occupy street which greatly affect the normal life of people live there but also violence against police and civilians, including fire fighters and reporters.

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## rott

Nilgiri said:


> Guess you are lot younger than me hehe.


I bet I am younger than you too.

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## bbccdd1470

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You guys are so clueless.
> 
> China already took control of our city during the Handover in 1997, I remember because I was there with my entire family (though I was too young to remember very much).
> 
> There is no possibility of HK independence, that's simply not a practical reality. Hong Kong was never a country, our country has always been China.


HK independence is a joke. But I think the only trouble for China is the HK judicial branch, where there have been infiltrated with many "Foreign Liberal" judges and their judgement prove to be worrysome.

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## Chinese-Dragon

rott said:


> In PDF New member registration, if you scroll down to the flag of Hong Kong, it says this, "Hong Kong, Province of China".



We aren't a province though, we are a Special Administrative Region. It's like a province but it sounds way more sexy.

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## terranMarine

bbccdd1470 said:


> HK independence is a joke. But I think the only trouble for China is the HK judicial branch, where there have been infiltrated with many "Foreign Liberal" judges and their judgement prove to be worrysome.



After 3 decades i hope they will kick out those foreign judges and implement Mainland laws and system.

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## Nilgiri

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We aren't a province though, we are a Special Administrative Region. It's like a province but it sounds way more sexy.



Do you live in HK right now? I miss the HK business spirit no matter which part of the world I am in. Nothing quite like it anywhere I've been.

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## samsara

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You guys are so clueless.
> 
> China already took control of our city during the Handover in 1997, I remember because I was there with my entire family (though I was too young to remember very much).
> 
> There is no possibility of HK independence, that's simply not a practical reality. Hong Kong was never a country, our country has always been China.


INDEED if any poster in PDF cares to open the *MAP* (of the World/Asia/China), yes the map to grasp *the geographic location, the physical proximity*  then he will see and grasp the hard facts that all talks/comments/expositions/insinuations about the separation/secession/independence of Hong Kong SAR from China is a *nonsensical* idea! All the yellow crap farces can do there is to create some problems... but farther than that is an impossibility!

Do you folks here ever realize that at some historical junction the British "Iron Lady" Margaret Thatcher during the long negotiation period about returning Hong Kong to China indeed thought of the possibility of resorting to military force to deny the island returning? Only after her close advisers pointed out such blatant impossibility then she dropped such wild idea. This provoking thinking happened during Thatcher's high time after the British victory over the Argentina in military conflict claiming the Malvinas (Falkland) Island.

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## TaiShang

HK independence dead as stone for very very long time:

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## Chinese-Dragon

samsara said:


> INDEED if any poster in PDF cares to open the *MAP* (of the World/Asia/China), yes the map to grasp *the geographic location, the physical proximity*  then he will see and grasp the hard facts that all talks/comments/expositions/insinuations about the separation/secession/independence of Hong Kong SAR from China is a *nonsensical* idea! All the yellow crap farces can do there is to create some problems... but farther than that is an impossibility!
> 
> Do you folks here ever realize that at some historical junction the British "Iron Lady" Margaret Thatcher during the long negotiation period about returning Hong Kong to China indeed thought of the possibility of resorting to military force to deny the island returning? Only after her close advisers pointed out such blatant impossibility then she dropped such wild idea. This provoking thinking happened during Thatcher's high time after the British victory over the Argentina in military conflict claiming the Malvinas (Falkland) Island.



Yes in fact the majority of land in Hong Kong (i.e. New Territories and Kowloon) is physically connected to the Mainland. And nobody in the world can hope to win a ground war there against China. It's not even worth thinking about.

The Pan-Democracy camp had some good ideas once (and noble ideals at some point), but they have become too corrupted and crazy, and in many cases just being outright traitors.

Even if Hong Kongers like myself sympathise with some of their goals, there is no way I can possibly vote for them now.

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## Bussard Ramjet

TaiShang said:


> As it should be.
> 
> One Country Two Systems is an historical anomaly waiting to be corrected.



That is exactly what I'm saying.

I'm asking CCP to *declare *that there won't be this thing after 2047.

Because you know what?

Many interests in Hong Kong would be fighting for privileges beyond 2047.


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## Jlaw

bbccdd1470 said:


> HK independence is a joke. But I think the only trouble for China is the HK judicial branch, where there have been infiltrated with many "Foreign Liberal" judges and their judgement prove to be worrysome.


I think that was what the Indian was implying by using Dufton as the example.

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## Beast

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Just when is China going to show some spine and take some control over HK?
> 
> The worst I feel is when random white people come in HK, and after some years, start advocating for HK independence.
> 
> National Security Law should be strictly implemented in HK.


Typical cheap shot by you. When China take over HK law and you haters will then claim PRC goes back on words and did not uphold one country 2 system rules.

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## TaiShang

Beast said:


> Typical cheap shot by you. When China take over HK law and you haters will then claim PRC goes back on words and did not uphold one country 2 system rules.



He is simply doing light mockery by bringing up white judges, etc . Let's call it reverse arguing. By implying to stand for something in a radical way that he-she normally- in fact hates to the bone.

Hope mods take this mocking behavior into consideration.

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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> I think that was what the Indian was implying by using Dufton as the example.


Yeah, I think so and he is possibly right. Our judicial branch is like a kingdom within HK, no one can touch them. Also they seems to cooperate with Civic party "公民黨" that has caused many controversies in HK, such as Children born in Hong Kong to non-Hong Kong residents and social security for people that do not live in HK for 7 years (non-citizen). For me, Civic party is much worse than Democrats party, since their members are mostly lawyers and few are so called "social workers", such as Ken Tsang who attacked police first then got beat up. As I said because they are lawyers, they know very well how to play around with laws and court. Most of the delay of construction projects from Court are done by them. It costs us a lots of tax money and time. Civic party also provided free services for those rioters who attacked police and set fire on street during occupy movement and riot last year. And our "Foreign Judges" lets those rioters either community service or short sentences, not to mention some of them even go free. That's also the reason why people get very upset about their ruling, since they are always double standard.

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## Nan Yang

Hong Kong lawmaker brands British judge a ‘yellow heart’ after seven policemen are jailed

Legislator makes reference to symbolic colour of protest movement and raises question about court prejudice

A day after the justice minister warned internet users not to post abusive comments about judges, a lawmaker on Friday branded a foreign judge a “white skin with yellow heart” – symbolic colour of the Occupy Central pro-democracy movement.

Speaking in a Legislative Council debate on the city’s governance, Wong Kwok-kin of the Federation of Trade Unions touched on a court decision to jail seven police officers for two years each for beating up activist Ken Tsang Kin-chiu during a protest in 2014.

He would let the public decide if the term was “unreasonably harsh” and then said: “I would like to ask if anyone in the judiciary has been making judgments that shock the public because of their prejudice?

“Some lawmakers mentioned that those who threw bricks received a lenient sentence, while those who threw eggs were jailed. What kind of logic is this?”

Citing an old derogatory term, Wong said: “In the past, Hongkongers described ‘fake foreigners’ as people with ‘yellow skin but a white heart’, but today I have to describe a judge as a ‘white skin with yellow heart’ – the yellow of a yellow ribbon.”

Similar remarks related to the case made online on Thursday prompted Secretary for Justice Rimsky Yuen Kwok-keung to warn against inappropriate criticism of the judiciary. He said there would be follow-up action.

Wong refused to say if he was pinpointing David Dufton – the British judge who sent the seven officers to prison.

“I don’t know if he would identify himself with my description. He can think about what I said.”

Wong added that he supported the police force’s plan to help the officers appeal.

“I hope the judiciary can take the initiative in correcting the fallacies in this case and be accountable to Hongkongers.”

Since Tuesday, when Dufton found the seven officers guilty of assault, there has been a mixed response on social media, with police supporters posting insulting criticism and abuse.

Former security minister Regina Ip Lau Suk-yee, who is running for chief executive, said the sentence was too harsh and unfair to the officers.

Yuen said in Legco that inappropriate criticism about the judiciary must be avoided.

“It would be the liberty of people of Hong Kong and their right as guaranteed under the constitution to comment on the verdicts and judgments made by judges and the court. But ... in exercising such constitutional right people should do it responsibly,” he said.

“Residents must also understand that the court is responsible for making judgments based on evidence and laws. Its judgment did not negate the work of the police force.”

He said the judiciary was concerned about some social media comments on the case and had referred them to the Department of Justice for follow-up action.

Police Commissioner Stephen Lo Wai-chung said the court ruling had left him with a heavy heart and he had approved a move by police unions to raise money to support the officers while an appeal was considered.

“I can totally understand why my colleagues are disappointed and frustrated by the court verdict. I will actively stay in touch and close contact with the unions, the seven officers and their families, and support them all round,” Lo said.

He did not reply when asked if he would apologise to the public for the wrongdoings of the seven.


http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...maker-brands-british-judge-yellow-heart-after

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## TaiShang

bbccdd1470 said:


> Yeah, I think so and he is possibly right. Our judicial branch is like a kingdom within HK, no one can touch them. Also they seems to cooperate with Civic party "公民黨" that has caused many controversies in HK, such as Children born in Hong Kong to non-Hong Kong residents and social security for people that do not live in HK for 7 years (non-citizen). For me, Civic party is mush worse than Democrats party, since their members are mostly lawyer and few are so called "social worker", such as Ken Tsang who attacked police first then got beat up. As I said because they are lawyer, they know very well how to play around with laws and court. Most of the delay of construction projects from Court are done by them. It costs us a lots of tax money and time. Civic party also provided free services for those rioters who attacked police and set fire on street during occupy movement and riot last year. And our "Foreign Judges" lets those rioters either community service or short sentences, not to mention some of them even go free. That's also the reason why people get very upset about their ruling, since they are always double standard.



Foreign judges/public officials on China's soil is a significant damage to China's sovereignty (which is an extension of OCTS model). Perhaps it is good that this verdict has helped brought up this issue to be debated publicly.

Mainland media and patriotic HK media should go aggressively on this issue and do not let it sink or disappear. Even before cancelling out the OCTS model, Mainland should go ahead and encourage the HK local administration to change the regulations that allow double residency-passport holding (because they are not citizen as HK is not a state).

Step by step, customs management and passports must be unified with that of the Mainland.

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## ahojunk

It's already twenty years since Hong Kong returned to the mainland.

When is Hong Kong getting rid of these foreign judges?

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## Hamartia Antidote

It was a simple case of police brutality caught on tape by a TVB news crew (much like the infamous 1991 Rodney King incident in the US with 2 cops going to jail for 30 months). It doesn't matter if this guy was a jaywalker or an anarchist.

Go search on youtube for "News Footage of Hong Kong Police allegedly beating protestor during Occupy Central protests".

I probably can't post it here due to PDF graphic rules. That should tell you something.

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## bbccdd1470

ahojunk said:


> It's already twenty years since Hong Kong returned to the mainland.
> 
> When is Hong Kong getting rid of these foreign judges?



Mostly, because China didn't do much since 1997 while the West has been infiltrating our media, educational sector and public offices since the colonial time. I have to say the West are many steps ahead of China. That was too late by the time China have realized this problem, many HK people have been brainwashed to a degree that they simply reject or hate anything that related to China, such as the withdrawal of national education.

As for the judges, there is nothing we can do, except wait until 2047. Even now the Court have threaten us with "藐視法庭罪" (contempt of court), if we publicly challenge their verdict or called them names.

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## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> It's already twenty years since Hong Kong returned to the mainland.
> 
> When is Hong Kong getting rid of these foreign judges?



I think the only way is to cancel out double residency permit.

I guess @samsara has an insight on this issue.

It is a virus implanted into HK by the (now dead) colonial masters.

If Mainland goes hard on national security grounds (certain incidents can be staged to this end to create the legitimate excuse) and clean up HK for good and align its managerial aspects with that of Mainland, no outsider can do any practical harm.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Why wait until 2047?

Dig up dirt on bastards like David Dufton, spread rumours, trump up charges, imply treason and espionage and then let the Hong Kong system take him down. Its a fcuking disgrace to have remnants of the colonial parasites still embedded in the Hong Kong judiciary.

The Judiciary couldn't even swiftly deal with the two hanjian Baggio Leung and Yau Wai Ching and needed time for 'deliberation'. What a fcuking disgrace, sellouts and agitators need to kicked out of Hong Kong. If it were up to me, shot next to a dumpster and disposed with the trash.

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## samsara

TaiShang said:


> I think the only way is to cancel out double residency permit.
> 
> I guess @samsara has an insight on this issue.
> 
> It is a virus implanted into HK by the (now dead) colonial masters.
> 
> If Mainland goes hard on national security grounds (certain incidents can be staged to this end to create the legitimate excuse) and clean up HK for good and align its managerial aspects with that of Mainland, no outsider can do any practical harm.


In every nation, when you entertain DUAL CITIZENSHIP (DUAL PASSPORT) then you create the loyalty risk! When the people with such duality is allowed to take any public post incl. the judicial ones then the risk is multiplied.

IMO the solution is to ban any duality to take any public post incl. the judicial function or in short any post holding some authority power. Loyalty is above capability!

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## Jlaw

bbccdd1470 said:


> Yeah, I think so and he is possibly right. Our judicial branch is like a kingdom within HK, no one can touch them. Also they seems to cooperate with Civic party "公民黨" that has caused many controversies in HK, such as Children born in Hong Kong to non-Hong Kong residents and social security for people that do not live in HK for 7 years (non-citizen). For me, Civic party is much worse than Democrats party, since their members are mostly lawyers and few are so called "social workers", such as Ken Tsang who attacked police first then got beat up. As I said because they are lawyers, they know very well how to play around with laws and court. Most of the delay of construction projects from Court are done by them. It costs us a lots of tax money and time. Civic party also provided free services for those rioters who attacked police and set fire on street during occupy movement and riot last year. And our "Foreign Judges" lets those rioters either community service or short sentences, not to mention some of them even go free. That's also the reason why people get very upset about their ruling, since they are always double standard.


Can they be relieved of their duties ?

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## Nilgiri

Hamartia Antidote said:


> It was a simple case of police brutality caught on tape by a TVB news crew (much like the infamous 1991 Rodney King incident in the US with 2 cops going to jail for 30 months). It doesn't matter if this guy was a jaywalker or an anarchist.
> 
> Go search on youtube for "News Footage of Hong Kong Police allegedly beating protestor during Occupy Central protests".
> 
> I probably can't post it here due to PDF graphic rules. That should tell you something.



I don't think it violates the rules, here it is:






2 years each for the cops involved seems fair. Clear police brutality caught on tape.

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## Jlaw

Nilgiri said:


> I don't think it violates the rules, here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 years each for the cops involved seems fair. Clear police brutality caught on tape.


In the US you would have been shot.

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## Nilgiri

Jlaw said:


> In the US you would have been shot.



Nah, the recent UC-berkeley riots were 100 times worse intensity than the HK protests (which as far as I know did not turn into riots).

How many berkeley rioters got shot? A big fat zero. In fact no anti-trump rioter anywhere got shot, some only got tear gassed and a few were arrested.

Not saying police brutality does not occur in the US, but its not a guaranteed majority prevalence thing either.

If police brutality gets caught on tape, its evidence and the culprit(s) gets prosecuted. Its really that simple.


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## mike2000 is back

terranMarine said:


> HK people will make sure those NGO, disgusting British and American troublemakers shall never succeed



I don't think our government is interested in stirring trouble in China or agitating Hong kongers to seek independence.


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## TaiShang

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Why wait until 2047?
> 
> Did up dirt on bastards like David Dufton, spread rumours, trump up charges, imply treason and espionage and then let the Hong Kong system take him down. Its a fcuking disgrace to have remnants of the colonial parasites still embedded in the Hong Kong judiciary.
> 
> The Judiciary couldn't even swiftly deal with the two hanjian Baggio Leung and Yau Wai Ching and needed time for 'deliberation'. What a fcuking disgrace, sellouts and agitators need to kicked out of Hong Kong. If it were up to me, shot next to a dumpster and disposed with the trash.



2047 is a colonial disgrace that should have been dead by now along with the death of British empire into a little US colony. 

The contagious situation in HK will likely continue as long as Mainland remains so lenient and benign. There should be left no grey zone when it comes to sovereignty, including dual passport system and foreign nationals who are left overs from Britain colonialism imposed on China as a result of British drug trade. 

HK is just a city and has the capacity of a city, dealing with it should be a non-event for Mainland.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> 2047 is a colonial disgrace that should have been dead by now along with the death of British empire into a little US colony.
> 
> The contagious situation in HK will likely continue as long as Mainland remains so lenient and benign. There should be left no grey zone when it comes to sovereignty, including dual passport system and foreign nationals who are left overs from Britain colonialism imposed on China as a result of British drug trade.
> 
> HK is just a city and has the capacity of a city, dealing with it should be a non-event for Mainland.


Or maybe the mainland is waiting for HK to beg for intervention. There's an old saying ,"order through chaos"

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> Or maybe the mainland is waiting for HK to beg for intervention. There's an old saying ,"order through chaos"



Indeed, this could be the case. If Mainland intervenes forcefully after small independence groups turn into 100% radical terrorists and separatists, then, it may be easier to manage post-integration environment.

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## Nan Yang

Nilgiri said:


> If police brutality gets caught on tape, its evidence and the culprit(s) gets prosecuted. Its really that simple.


Really ?

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## Nilgiri

Nan Yang said:


> Really ?



All went through due process:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner


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## Hamartia Antidote

Jlaw said:


> In the US you would have been shot.



Or worse...run over by a tank!

BTW why are people here suddenly going off topic and dragging the US into this British/China/Hong Kong discussion? Shouldn't you be talking about the British police or something? They were the colonizers not us. Maybe you can talk about Botswana too.

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## ideasexchange

For all the tough talkers here the fact remains that a British judge has jailed 7 Chinese policemen for 2 years and the Chinese govt can do jacksh.t about it.
Gives the impression that the Chinese govt is weak even 20 years after handover.
Youtube is flooded with videos on what Hongkongers think about mainlanders, not at all complementary... call them locusts.
I see gradual erosion of what little authority China has in hk .


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## terranMarine

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Or worse...run over by a tank!



Which never took place in China but on the other hand a firing squad felt threatened and fired 46 times and face no charges. US cop violence one of a kind

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## Nan Yang

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Or worse...run over by a tank!



You believe in myth ?

https://myviewlss.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/birth-of-a-massacre-myth-by-gregory-clark/



ideasexchange said:


> For all the tough talkers here the fact remains that a British judge has jailed 7 Chinese policemen for 2 years and the Chinese govt can do jacksh.t about it.
> Gives the impression that the Chinese govt is weak even 20 years after handover.
> Youtube is flooded with videos on what Hongkongers think about mainlanders, not at all complementary... call them locusts.
> I see gradual erosion of what little authority China has in hk .



Deng XiaoPing got Hong Kong back from the "IRON LADY" without firing a shot. 
China is so weak that even the "IRON LADY" capitulated.

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## lonelyman

Nilgiri said:


> I don't think it violates the rules, here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 years each for the cops involved seems fair. Clear police brutality caught on tape.



The perps got what he deserve, he poured urine/shit to police officers in duty, which is a big personal insult in our culture. In USA, he would been shot.

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## Nilgiri

lonelyman said:


> The perps got what he deserve, he poured urine/shit to police officers in duty, which is a big personal insult in our culture. In USA, he would been shot.



Yes there is always context to such from the police for sure given I know HK police (growing up there) are overall more trained and professional than average I have seen worldwide.

So I can empathise with the officers if what you say is true (do you have evidence of this btw?), but the court has to follow the law of the land to the letter.


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## lonelyman

Nilgiri said:


> Yes there is always context to such from the police for sure given I know HK police (growing up there) are overall more trained and professional than average I have seen worldwide.
> 
> So I can empathise with the officers if what you say is true (do you have evidence of this btw?), but the court has to follow the law of the land to the letter.



It's a common knowledge within us
http://shanghaiist.com/2017/02/17/ken-tsang-police-sentencing.php
Tsang had testified in court that after he had *splashed liquid* from a bottle on a group of officers trying to clear a pro-democracy protest in Admiralty, he was arrested, had his hands bound behind his back, and was carried to a police substation where he was thrown to the ground and beaten.

you think spill bottled water on police officer will get him beaten like this?

by the way, I don't understand why HK still has British whites as Judges after the colonization ended for 20 years, who clearly holds a grudge and side with the perp on the ideologically ground

Ridiculous the perp got 5 month in the jail, while the POs got 2 years

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## Nilgiri

lonelyman said:


> It's a common knowledge within us
> http://shanghaiist.com/2017/02/17/ken-tsang-police-sentencing.php
> Tsang had testified in court that after he had *splashed liquid* from a bottle on a group of officers trying to clear a pro-democracy protest in Admiralty, he was arrested, had his hands bound behind his back, and was carried to a police substation where he was thrown to the ground and beaten.
> 
> you think spill bottled water on police officer will get him beaten like this?
> 
> by the way, I don't understand why HK still has British whites as Judges after the colonization ended for 20 years, who clearly holds a grudge and side with the perp on the ideologically ground
> 
> Ridiculous the perp got 5 month in the jail, while the POs got 2 years



Yah I agree 5 months is unfair for this guy in comparison for 2 years for the cops.

Are the judges elected for life in HK? Or do they have term limits?


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## Bussard Ramjet

Beast said:


> Typical cheap shot by you. When China take over HK law and you haters will then claim PRC goes back on words and did not uphold one country 2 system rules.



Why are you combining me with those so called haters? 
And I am not saying to take over HK law. You have given a word, and it must be followed. 
I have always recommended the following things regarding HK: 

1. Immediately declare that after 2047, there will be no special privileges for HK. It will be treated like Shanghai. 
2. Increase two way immigration between HK and Mainland, so that poor HK people flow out of HK and settle in Mainland for cheaper costs, and rich Mainlanders go out and settle in HK. 
3. Decrease the free-visa arrangements with other countries vis a vis HK. 
4. Keep pushing the national security law. 
5. Keep increasing influence over HK. 



TaiShang said:


> He is simply doing light mockery by bringing up white judges, etc . Let's call it reverse arguing. By implying to stand for something in a radical way that he-she normally- in fact hates to the bone.
> 
> Hope mods take this mocking behavior into consideration.



Why do you take negative intent on my part? 
I don't hate anything to the bone. 
Read ALL OF MY COMMENTS before, and tell me anything that I have said against Chinese territorial integrity. 

I am defending China and its interests rather. 



+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> the two hanjian



Please do away with this word "Hanjian." 
It seems to imply that China is only a country of Hans, when instead it is the country of Hua. 

By calling equating China to Han, you do foreign aggressors a favor, because then they get to claim that minority groups, and their lands are not legitimate parts of China.


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## bbccdd1470

Nilgiri said:


> Yah I agree 5 months is unfair for this guy in comparison for 2 years for the cops.


Actually he is only charged with 5 weeks for attacking police officers. This incident is only a trigger after many controversial verdicts by our judges. Maximum imprisonment for riot in HK are 10 years, but the harshest imprisonment so far that had been charged was 9 months and not to mention some got community services or their charge dropped, while the maximum imprisonment for those police officers is only 3 years. To be honest, those police officers deserved to be jailed since they broke the laws, but why the double standard? Since attacking both police and civilian, and set fire on street which are serious crimes in HK, and can also cause serious damage to both human and property. Most people are disappointed at our judges' ruling, not the length of the sentences for the 7 police officers.

PS: for my HK fellows there is a radio link for more interesting facts about our JudgeDavid Dufton and other stuffs:
http://www.chineseradio.com/main/節目重溫/時事觀察/
Seach "02/20/2017 余非", it only comes with Contonese, but worth listening.

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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> Can they be relieved of their duties ?


Hardly. But what Beijing doing is try to make Article 23 as a laws in the next CE term. Article 23 is simply a laws that covers our national security. It had been introduced once in 2003, but was withdrawn by huge protest. This is also the cause why we have traitors everywhere in HK. Also once Article 23 become laws, it will provide a great help to fight against treason. However, it will be a very tough fight to install this laws both politically and publicly.

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## Nilgiri

bbccdd1470 said:


> Actually he is only charged with 5 weeks for attacking police officers. This incident is only a trigger after many controversial verdicts by our judges. Maximum imprisonment for riot in HK are 10 years, but the harshest imprisonment so far that had been charged was 9 months and not to mention some got community services or their charge dropped, while the maximum imprisonment for those police officers is only 3 years. To be honest, those police officers are deserved to be jail since they break the laws, but why the doubt standard? Since attacking both police and civilian, and set fire on street are serious crimes in HK, and can be also caused serious damage to both human and property. Most people are disappointed of our judges' ruling, not the length of the sentences for the 7 police officers.
> 
> PS: for my HK fellows there is a radio link for more interesting facts about our JudgeDavid Dufton and other stuffs:
> http://www.chineseradio.com/main/節目重溫/時事觀察/
> Seach "02/20/2017 余非", it only comes with Contonese, but worth listening.



Can you tell me if HK high court and appeal judges have term limits or are they assigned for life?

i.e are the foreign judges simply continuing their positions from before the handover?


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## rott

Nan Yang said:


> You believe in myth ?
> 
> https://myviewlss.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/birth-of-a-massacre-myth-by-gregory-clark/


I don't blame them. They believe in Santa Claus too.


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## bbccdd1470

Nilgiri said:


> Can you tell me if HK high court and appeal judges have term limits or are they assigned for life?
> 
> i.e are the foreign judges simply continuing their positions from before the handover?


I think we have both Permanent Judges and Non-Permanent Judges at the highest level (Final Appeal Court). The rest including High Court Judges and Appeal Judges are appointed which serve as a two years term, and can be appointed for further term. Still the recommendation of those offices are made by their own people. I'm not sure if they are just continuing their positions, but this is possible.

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## samsara

*Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor wins Hong Kong S.A.R’s top job, the Chief Executive*

SCMP - 2017-03-26






_Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor and husband, mathematician Professor Lam Siu-por and son_​
Lam will be the City’s first female chief executive-elect. The votes have been tallied, and Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor has won by a landslide.





_The three HKSAR CE candidates: Woo Kwok-hing (L), Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor and John Tsang Chun-wah (SCMP)_​
Lam, 59, won 777 votes from the 1,194-member Election Committee. The former chief secretary beat former finance chief John Tsang Chun-wah and retired judge Woo Kwok-hing, who took 365 and 21 votes respectively.





_Hong Kong S.A.R Chief Executive election official results (2017-03-26 - SCMP)_​
Lam was widely seen as Beijing’s preferred candidate while Tsang was said to have lacked the central government’s full trust. As for Woo, winning the race was seen as mission impossible.

On Sunday morning, the brief election period began with election committee members casting their votes between 9am and 11am at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre in Wan Chai.

Lam, who turns 60 in May, joined the British colonial government in 1980 after graduating from the University of Hong Kong, where she majored in sociology.

In the 1990s, she spent almost seven years in the finance bureau working on budget planning and expenditure control. In 2000, she was made social welfare director. As welfare chief, she introduced several controversial reforms, such as tightening the social security assistance scheme.

To some, however, Lam has a tender side too. A citizen named “Uncle Fook” wrote a letter about his hardship to Lam when she was director of social welfare. She helped him move into a housing unit for the elderly. Since then, she has kept in touch with him and visits him regularly.

During the Sars outbreak in 2003, Lam, together with three other senior civil servants in their personal capacity, set up a fund to help the long-term education needs of children whose parents had died from the disease.

Lam was appointed as permanent secretary for housing, planning and lands in 2003 and was posted to head the government trade office in London the following year. In 2006, she returned to Hong Kong to take up the position as permanent secretary for home affairs.
In 2007, she was appointed by then chief executive Donald Tsang Yam-kuen as secretary for development.





_Lam became chief secretary in Leung’s administration in 2012_​
Lam had earlier denied any ambition to contest the top post, but she made a U-turn on December 10 last year and said she would “reconsider” running for the job – less than 24 hours after Leung’s shock announcement that he had decided not to seek a second term.




On January 12, she resigned as the chief secretary and ended her 36-year civil service career. Four days later, with Beijing’s endorsement of her resignation, she declared her candidacy for the leadership race.

Lam married to the mathematician Professor Lam Siu-por. The couple married in 1984 and have two sons.

The professor had expressed his wish for his wife to be elected and “contribute to the implementation of one ‘country, two systems’”.

Despite the ups and downs in her civil service career and her electioneering missteps, Beijing, believing she was a person it could trust, did not waver in its support for her.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

_Congratulations Mrs. Lam!_

_I hope this Lady Chief Executive will be an "Iron Lady" of Hong Kong S.A.R to deal decisively with those alien-injected yellow pests._

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## oprih

Good, only Pro-Beijing politicians should be allowed as chief executive of Hong Kong since it will ensure stability and prosperity for the city.

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## TaiShang

oprih said:


> Good, only Pro-Beijing politicians should be allowed as chief executive of Hong Kong since it will ensure stability and prosperity for the city.



*Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor wins HK chief executive election, vowing to safeguard "one country, two systems"*

(Xinhua) 10:08, March 27, 2017

Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor meets the press after winning the election in Hong Kong, south China, March 26, 2017. Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor on Sunday won the election of the fifth-term chief executive of China's Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR). (Xinhua/Qin Qing)

HONG KONG, March 26 -- Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor won the election of the fifth-term chief executive of China's Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) on Sunday, vowing to do her utmost to safeguard the "one country, two systems" principle.

The Electoral Affairs Commission of the Hong Kong SAR declared that Lam garnered 777 of 1,163 valid votes, followed by Tsang Chun-wah with 365 and Woo Kwok-hing with 21.

A candidate wins the election when he or she obtains more than 600 valid votes in any round of voting and will be appointed by the central government, according to Hong Kong's Basic Law and the Chief Executive Election Ordinance.

After the appointment, the winner will take oath of office on July 1 and become the fifth-term chief executive.

In her speech to the press after winning the election, Lam said "I shall do my utmost to uphold 'one country, two systems' and to guard our core values."

"With care, listening and action, I will build a better Hong Kong," she said.

"The victory ...that I have in this election is very much the effort of my team and myself and the supporters who believe I can take Hong Kong forward."

She also said that she will give opportunities to young people, and her first priority will be to "heal the divide."

Another candidate Tsang Chun-wah conceded his defeat and called on his supporters to back the upcoming new administration.

"I accept this outcome," he said, asking his supporters to "lend her your support."

Incumbent Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying on Sunday congratulated Lam for winning the fifth-term chief executive election.

"The fifth-term chief executive election has just concluded smoothly," Leung said in a statement on the results of the election.

"I extend my sincere congratulations to Mrs. Carrie Lam (Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor) on her successful election and I will submit later today a report of the election results to the Central People's Government," he said.

Leung said the present-term government of the Hong Kong SAR and he himself will ensure a "seamless transition," adding that "we will fully support the preparation for forming the new term of government."

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## samsara

Indika said:


> thats a racist comment.


*Yellow* Umbrella George Soros NED CIA ==> how _racist_ is this? 

just search using these keywords!

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## AViet

Her maiden name is Cheng Yuet-ngor (Trịnh Nguyệt Nga), a very Vietnamese name. As first, I thought she was a Vietnamese, when I heard about the news on VTV.

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## shadows888

AViet said:


> Her maiden name is Cheng Yuet-ngor (Trịnh Nguyệt Nga), a very Vietnamese name. As first, I thought she was a Vietnamese, when I heard about the news on VTV.


Well China and Vietnam have a long history so there's plenty of intermarriage.

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## samsara

shadows888 said:


> Well China and Vietnam have a long history so there's plenty of intermarriage.


QUITE TRUE! Even the sacrosanct leader of the New Vietnam, *Hồ Chí Minh*, got married to a Chinese woman, *Zeng Xueming （曾雪明）*, known in Vietnamese as Tăng Tuyết Minh in 1926.





_Hồ Chí Minh's wife, Zeng Xueming （曾雪明）aka. Tăng Tuyết Minh_​
The legal witnesses of this marriage were the two top women's personalities of the New China: *Cai Chang* （蔡畅) and *Deng Yingchao* （邓颖超 | 鄧穎超）, wife of future Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai.

Zeng was 21 and Ho was 36. The wedding took place in the same building where Zhou had married Deng earlier.

P.S: Cai Chang was the future President of the All-China Women's Federation as well as the future Vice Chairman of the Fifth NPC Standing Committee.

More at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeng_Xueming

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## Keel

*Laptops containing 3.7 million Hong Kong voters’ data stolen after chief executive election*

Devices contained ID card numbers, addresses and mobile numbers


PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 28 March, 2017, 12:30am
UPDATED : Tuesday, 28 March, 2017, 1:42am

COMMENTS: 22 






ang-chung
2

PrintEmail

*More on this story*



*LAW & CRIME*
*Hong Kong’s data privacy pioneer lowers his guard*
5 Nov 2016
In what could be one of Hong Kong’s most significant data breaches ever, the personal information of the city’s 3.7 million voters was possibly compromised after the Registration and Electoral Office reported two laptop computers went missing at its backup venue for the chief executive election.

The devices also stored the names of the 1,200 electors on the Election Committee who selected Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor as Hong Kong’s new chief executive on Sunday. Kong chief executive election, with 777 votes
The two computers were stolen from a room at the AsiaWorld-Expo on Lantau, which the office described as the election’s “fallback venue”.

The leadership election was held on Sunday at the Convention and Exhibition Centre in Wan Chai.

While the committee members’ full names are publicly available information, the personal data of Hong Kong’s voters could include their ID card numbers, addresses and mobile phone numbers.

The office said the computers had been put in a locked room. It reported the case to police.

The case involves a huge amount of personal data. The office is going to launch a probe
PRIVACY COMMISSIONER SPOKESMAN
In a statement, the office said there had so far been no information to indicate that the relevant data had been “leaked”. It also stressed the data had been encrypted.

Police said they received a report about the stolen computers around 4.40pm Monday. The case was being treated as theft and no arrests had been made. New Territories South regional crime unit was investigating.

A spokesman for the Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data said it had received “verbal notification” of the case from the electoral office earlier Monday.

“They stressed that the data had been encrypted,” he said. “The case involves a huge amount of personal data. The office is going to launch a probe.”

The Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau said it had received a report from the electoral office that the computers were found to have been stolen around Monday afternoon.










A spokesman for the AsiaWorld Expo said it had no comment.

Election Committee member Fung Wai-wah said he was shocked to learn what had happened. “We had not been told there was a backup centre for the chief executive election,” he said.

Another committee member, lawmaker Charles Mok, said he found it “puzzling” that general voters’ data had been stored alongside that of committee members. “Perhaps they didn’t put the voters’ data in a proper place after last year’s legislative elections and then the devices were used for the chief executive election,” he added.

Hong Kong’s data privacy pioneer lowers his guard

Last September, a computer belonging to the University of Hong Kong’s department of medicine kept at Queen Mary Hospital was stolen. It contained the personal details of some 3,675 patients.

In reply to a lawmaker enquiry last June, the bureau said during the period from June 2013 to May 2016, the privacy commissioner’s office received a total of 253 notifications of data breach incidents.

That personal data mainly included names, personal identification numbers and contact information.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ining-37-million-hong-kong-voters-data-stolen

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## samsara

Keel said:


> *Laptops containing 3.7 million Hong Kong voters’ data stolen after chief executive election*
> 
> Devices contained ID card numbers, addresses and mobile numbers
> 
> 
> PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 28 March, 2017, 12:30am
> UPDATED : Tuesday, 28 March, 2017, 1:42am
> 
> COMMENTS: 22
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ang-chung
> 2
> 
> PrintEmail
> 
> *More on this story*
> 
> 
> 
> *LAW & CRIME*
> *Hong Kong’s data privacy pioneer lowers his guard*
> 5 Nov 2016
> In what could be one of Hong Kong’s most significant data breaches ever, the personal information of the city’s 3.7 million voters was possibly compromised after the Registration and Electoral Office reported two laptop computers went missing at its backup venue for the chief executive election.
> 
> The devices also stored the names of the 1,200 electors on the Election Committee who selected Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor as Hong Kong’s new chief executive on Sunday. Kong chief executive election, with 777 votes
> The two computers were stolen from a room at the AsiaWorld-Expo on Lantau, which the office described as the election’s “fallback venue”.
> 
> The leadership election was held on Sunday at the Convention and Exhibition Centre in Wan Chai.
> 
> While the committee members’ full names are publicly available information, the personal data of Hong Kong’s voters could include their ID card numbers, addresses and mobile phone numbers.
> 
> The office said the computers had been put in a locked room. It reported the case to police.
> 
> The case involves a huge amount of personal data. The office is going to launch a probe
> PRIVACY COMMISSIONER SPOKESMAN
> In a statement, the office said there had so far been no information to indicate that the relevant data had been “leaked”. It also stressed the data had been encrypted.
> 
> Police said they received a report about the stolen computers around 4.40pm Monday. The case was being treated as theft and no arrests had been made. New Territories South regional crime unit was investigating.
> 
> A spokesman for the Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data said it had received “verbal notification” of the case from the electoral office earlier Monday.
> 
> “They stressed that the data had been encrypted,” he said. “The case involves a huge amount of personal data. The office is going to launch a probe.”
> 
> The Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau said it had received a report from the electoral office that the computers were found to have been stolen around Monday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A spokesman for the AsiaWorld Expo said it had no comment.
> 
> Election Committee member Fung Wai-wah said he was shocked to learn what had happened. “We had not been told there was a backup centre for the chief executive election,” he said.
> 
> Another committee member, lawmaker Charles Mok, said he found it “puzzling” that general voters’ data had been stored alongside that of committee members. “Perhaps they didn’t put the voters’ data in a proper place after last year’s legislative elections and then the devices were used for the chief executive election,” he added.
> 
> Hong Kong’s data privacy pioneer lowers his guard
> 
> Last September, a computer belonging to the University of Hong Kong’s department of medicine kept at Queen Mary Hospital was stolen. It contained the personal details of some 3,675 patients.
> 
> In reply to a lawmaker enquiry last June, the bureau said during the period from June 2013 to May 2016, the privacy commissioner’s office received a total of 253 notifications of data breach incidents.
> 
> That personal data mainly included names, personal identification numbers and contact information.
> 
> http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ining-37-million-hong-kong-voters-data-stolen



What a blatant show of incompetency!

Do they all forgot that the HKSAR is one of the largest and the most active operating dens in Asia for those foreign spy agencies?   many related heads should fall from their seats and jails should be called their new home.

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## bbccdd1470

samsara said:


> What a blatant show of incompetency!
> 
> Do they all forgot that the HKSAR is one of the largest and the most active operating dens in Asia for those foreign spy agencies?   many related heads should fall from their seats and jails should be called their new home.


It looks like an inside job. Also I don't think there has anything to do with those foreign spy agencies, since they have enough resources to steal those information without anyone notice. Not to mentions, this incident looks very ammature and those data at best only provide the home address of those 1200 Election Committee and their ID numbers, nothing else.

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## TaiShang

*Premier Li appoints Lam as HK chief executive*

By An Baijie (China Daily) 08:02, April 01, 2017




*Premier says election win clearly shows public's confidence in her to lead SAR*

Premier Li Keqiang signed an administrative order on Friday appointing Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor as the fifth chief executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

The SAR's chief executive election was conducted in accordance with the Basic Law, the decisions of the National People's Congress Standing Committee and the election laws of Hong Kong, Li said at a full State Council meeting in Beijing on Friday.

Lam won the election on Sunday with 777 of 1,163 valid votes, showing the Hong Kong public's wide recognition of, trust in and expectations from Lam, Li said.

She will take the oath of office on July 1.

According to the Basic Law, the chief executive is the head of the Hong Kong SAR government, carrying great responsibilities.

The central government will continue to fully implement the principle of "One Country, Two Systems", "Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong" with a high degree of autonomy, Li said.

The central government will act strictly in line with the Constitution and the Basic Law, to ensure that the implementation of "One Country, Two Systems" will never be bent or distorted, he added.

Premier Li pledged to fully support the chief executive and the Hong Kong SAR government to govern in line with the laws, develop the economy and improve the people's livelihoods.

The State Council supports the cooperation between Hong Kong and the mainland, Li said, adding that the central government plans to make use of Hong Kong's strengths to raise the status of the SAR in the country's economic development and opening-up.

Li said he believes that after Lam becomes chief executive, she will definitely unite the Hong Kong SAR government and Hong Kong people from all walks of life to make practical progress, maintain the long-term prosperity and stability in the SAR and secure a better future.

The Government Work Report, which Li delivered to deputies of the National People's Congress on March 5, noted that the chief executives and governments of Hong Kong and Macao have the central government's full support in "exercising law-based governance, growing their economies, improving people's well-being, advancing democracy and promoting social harmony".

***
_
Big boss has spoken. _

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## Keel

bbccdd1470 said:


> It looks like an inside job. Also I don't think there has anything to do with those foreign spy agencies, since they have enough resources to steal those information without anyone notice. Not to mentions, this incident looks very ammature and those data at best only provide the home address of those 1200 Election Committee and their ID numbers, nothing else.



Read the title please which said the data of 3.7 voters, not just 1,200 Election Committee members
So why to bring the data of all voters there when the election did not concern that much larger lot of people?

Through the address as revealed in the data, they can locate the online addresses of all the people concerned and then tap into their political propensities

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## bbccdd1470

Keel said:


> Read the title please which said the data of 3.7 voters, not just 1,200 Election Committee members
> So why to bring the data of all voters there when the election did not concern this lot of people?
> 
> Through the address as revealed in the data, they can locate the online addresses of all the people concern and then tap into their political propensities


I know, our news talk about that day and night. Our councillors had asked the same question, the only answer they offered that is they put all data together. Yeah, that is stupid and lazy. My previous post had been edited by moderator, I tend to believe this was done by the yellow camp due to how unprofessional of this action. Also the latest news reveals that few government employees have been asked for the investigation due to the CCTV records. However, still very little information have been revealed to the general public.

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## Chinese-Dragon

oprih said:


> Good, only Pro-Beijing politicians should be allowed as chief executive of Hong Kong since it will ensure stability and prosperity for the city.



ALL of the candidates for HK Chief Executive were Pro-Beijing. She just happens to be more Pro-Beijing than the others. 

I don't think any candidate for HK Chief Executive is stupid enough to be anti-Beijing.

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## bbccdd1470

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ALL of the candidates for HK Chief Executive were Pro-Beijing. She just happens to be more Pro-Beijing than the others.
> 
> I don't think any candidate for HK Chief Executive is stupid enough to be anti-Beijing.


John Tsang looked like a hidden anti-Beijing candidate to me since most of the supports he had were anti-Beijing and foreign based (such as foreign news like to describe him as a saviour to HK people). Not to mentions, he entered the election even Beijing asked him not to, and his policies had shifted to more pan-democrats favoured. And Woo Kwok-hing is a populists, and nothing more. So Carrie was the only choice that CCP left.

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## Keel

All of CY Leung and the CE elect Lam's sons and daughters received top class educations



bbccdd1470 said:


> John Tsang looked like a hidden anti-Beijing candidate to me since most of the supports he had were anti-Beijing and foreign based (such as foreign news like to describe him as a saviour to HK people). Not to mentions, he entered the election even Beijing asked him not to, and his policies had shifted to more pan-democrats favoured. And Woo Kwok-hing is a populists, and nothing more. So Carrie was the only choice that CCP left.



JT was using the strategy of "挾民意以令中央"
He is the trojan horse. Overwhelming numbers of voters in the anti-BJ camps supported him.

Haha if popular opinion rules election then Andy Lau, Tony Leong and the likes should be more qualified to be the next HKCE:
Top 10 Most Popular Chinese Movie Actors
http://top10for.com/top-10-popular-chinese-movie-actors/

And the following news makes the JT supporters, aka the pan-dems more stupid:

Man who threw egg at John Tsang finishes jail term, vows to keep fighting for Hong Kong's poor
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...w-egg-john-tsang-finishes-jail-term-vows-keep

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## bbccdd1470

Keel said:


> All of CY Leung and the CE elect Lam's sons and daughters received top class educations
> 
> 
> 
> JT was using the strategy of "挾民意以令中央"
> He is the trojan horse. Overwhelming numbers of voters in the anti-BJ camps supported him.
> 
> Haha if popular opinion rules election then Andy Lau, Tony Leong and the likes should be more qualified to be the next HKCE:
> Top 10 Most Popular Chinese Movie Actors
> http://top10for.com/top-10-popular-chinese-movie-actors/
> 
> And the following news makes the JT supporters, aka the pan-dems more stupid:
> 
> Man who threw egg at John Tsang finishes jail term, vows to keep fighting for Hong Kong's poor
> http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...w-egg-john-tsang-finishes-jail-term-vows-keep


The funniest thing is before the election John Tsang was one of the hated figures in the government along side with our CE CY Leung, according to our Yellow camp supporters. Carrie Lam was in fact having a better rating than him, but soon after pan-democrats vowed their support to JT, he suddenly became a saviour of HK with high rating. Every rational person should see through this kind of cheap manipulation easily, but this is too sad that we have many brainwashed people in HK.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ALL of the candidates for HK Chief Executive were Pro-Beijing. She just happens to be more Pro-Beijing than the others.
> 
> I don't think any candidate for HK Chief Executive is stupid enough to be anti-Beijing.


 you are far from the truth, you sure you really are aware of JT and Woo considering you living there? When Leung announced he won't run again the 2nd in command jumped in the "race" followed by the words: must do it for the city (instead of retiring). I bet Beijing had it all planned out, they were aware 兩闢雞 is trojan horse.

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## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> you are far from the truth, you sure you really are aware of JT and Woo considering you living there? When Leung announced he won't run again the 2nd in command jumped in the "race" followed by the words: must do it for the city (instead of retiring). I bet Beijing had it all planned out, they were aware 兩闢雞 is trojan horse.



Beijing isn't stupid man, the others are just there to take the fall. It's just a political theater.

No candidate for the post of HK Chief Executive can be anti-Beijing, it's simply not practical.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Beijing isn't stupid man, the others are just there to take the fall. It's just a political theater.
> 
> No candidate for the post of HK Chief Executive can be anti-Beijing, it's simply not practical.



I disagree, there's something about 兩闢雞 you might not be aware of

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## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> I disagree, there's something about 兩闢雞 you might not be aware of



I can only give my own personal opinion.

And for me, I was never worried about the outcome of the HK Chief Executive race.

Because the new boss is the same as the old boss. At the end of the day, they all have to answer to Beijing.

And I trust that Beijing knows what they are doing.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I can only give my own personal opinion.
> 
> And for me, I was never worried about the outcome of the HK Chief Executive race.
> 
> Because the new boss is the same as the old boss. At the end of the day, they all have to answer to Beijing.
> 
> And I trust that Beijing knows what they are doing.


兩闢雞 was disobeying Beijing's order that should tell you something.

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## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> 兩闢雞 was disobeying Beijing's order that should tell you something.



This isn't Taiwan. Tell me the name of one single HK Chief Executive that was anti-Beijing?

If they are anti-Beijing they have no chance to be Chief Executive, that's how it is. Because Beijing controls who becomes Chief Executive. The rest is political theater.

There was never any real doubt about who would be the next Chief Executive.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> This isn't Taiwan. Tell me the name of one single HK Chief Executive that was anti-Beijing?
> 
> If they are anti-Beijing they have no chance to be Chief Executive, that's how it is. Because Beijing controls who becomes Chief Executive. The rest is political theater.
> 
> There was never any real doubt about who would be the next Chief Executive.



You said all candidates are pro Beijing, that dude failed the tests and disobeyed Beijing's order. He caught Beijing off guard when he suddenly decided to make a U turn and started to do a swift campaign upon his return back to the city. He made a joke of himself by constantly hammering "there's no reason Beijing should not trust me". Beijing already figured out his true nature hence they didn't trust him.

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## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> You said all candidates are pro Beijing, that dude failed the tests and disobeyed Beijing's order. He caught Beijing off guard when he suddenly decided to make a U turn and started to do a swift campaign upon his return back to the city. He made a joke of himself by constantly hammering "there's no reason Beijing should not trust me". Beijing already figured out his true nature hence they didn't trust him.



That's what I think. I think he is just the designated fall guy.

Like I said, Beijing controls who becomes the next Chief Executive. In my opinion, the other candidates are only there for the political theater. They all know how it works, they are all in on it.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That's what I think. I think he is just the designated fall guy.
> 
> Like I said, Beijing controls who becomes the next Chief Executive. In my opinion, the other candidates are only there for the political theater. They all know how it works.



he obviously isn't pro Beijing, ignoring Beijing's direct order shows you are not loyal. Also Beijing tested the dude long before and came to the conclusion he can never be CEO. You failed to see this point

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## Chinese-Dragon

terranMarine said:


> he obviously isn't pro Beijing, ignoring Beijing's direct order shows you are not loyal. Also Beijing tested the dude long before and came to the conclusion he can never be CEO. You failed to see this point



Clearly we are not going to agree, so I'm going to leave it here.

In my OPINION I think all the candidates already understood that the choice was made long ago by Beijing, and everything else we saw after that was political theater that they all played their part in. I don't believe any of them are actually anti-Beijing.

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## terranMarine

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Clearly we are not going to agree, so I'm going to leave it here.
> 
> In my OPINION I think all the candidates already understood that the choice was made long ago by Beijing, and everything else we saw after that was political theater that they all played their part in. I don't believe any of them are actually anti-Beijing.



Tell me, why has Beijing already concluded that he has become a western proxy if he is not anti Beijing?

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## TaiShang

*Incoming HK chief 's election 'deserved'*
By Li Xiaokun | China Daily | Updated: 2017-04-12


*




President Xi Jinping meets with Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor, the newly appointed chief executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, at the Zhongnanhai leadership compound in Beijing on Tuesday.[Photo by Ju Peng/Xinhua]*

Beijing will not waiver in the principle of "one country, two systems" in Hong Kong and will fully support the newly appointed chief executive of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and her government to govern according to law, President Xi Jinping said on Tuesday.

Xi made the remark when meeting Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor－who will take office as the fifth-term chief executive of the SAR on July 1－at the Zhongnanhai leadership compound in central Beijing.

*Xi congratulated Lam on her victory in the election and ensuing appointment by the State Council.* Lam won the chief executive election with 777 of 1,163 valid votes from members of the Election Committee on March 26.

The president said Lam, who has worked in the Hong Kong government for 36 years, *has been devoted to the country and Hong Kong.*

He said Lam, who is "diligent, pragmatic, dares to assume responsibilities, is experienced in governing and capable of handling complex situations", has won recognition in Hong Kong society, according to a news release issued after the meeting.

*"You match the central government's longtime standard for the chief executive. Your victory in the election is deserved,"* Xi said.

He said the principle of "one country, two systems" has achieved great success in Hong Kong in the past two decades. This year marks the 20th anniversary of Hong Kong's return to the motherland.

Xi said people should continue to be creative in exploring and pushing forward the practice of the novel principle of "one country, two systems".

"The central government's determination to insist on the 'one country, two systems', ' Hong Kong people governing Hong Kong' and 'a high degree of autonomy' is firm and will not get changed or waived," Xi said, adding that Beijing will "fully support you and the new SAR government to govern according to law".

Premier Li Keqiang granted Lam a certificate of appointment on Tuesday.

Li expressed his hope that Lam will take the initiative to unite and lead the Hong Kong government and people from all walks of life in the region to fully and accurately implement the principle of "one country, two systems" and the SAR's Basic Law.

Lam pledged to continue upholding the "one country, two systems" principle, according to an interview that Xinhua published on Tuesday.

*The notion of 'Hong Kong independence' will lead nowhere in Hong Kong, and it will never be tolerated, she said in the interview.*

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## ahojunk

*Australia to pursue FTA with China's Hong Kong: trade minister*
(Xinhua) 10:55, April 24, 2017

CANBERRA, April 24 -- The Australian government has announced it will pursue a free trade agreement (FTA) with China's Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in an attempt to secure further service export opportunities for Australian businesses.

Australia's Trade Minister Steve Ciobo said securing an FTA with the Hong Kong economy would "strengthen the trading partnership" with one of Australia's "most significant" trading partners.

Australia already has a zero tariff agreement with Hong Kong, however, the FTA would be aimed at securing easier access for "services exports" and ensure Hong Kong would remain open for Australian business.

Under the proposed deal, Australian businesses would be allowed to operate within the mega economy without establishing 'on-the-ground' operations within Hong Kong.

"With Asia's emerging middle class projected to grow from 600 million today to 3 billion by 2035, the potential for services exports is significant," Ciobo said Monday.

"Hong Kong is an important trade and investment partner for Australia, in its own right and as a global hub for the movement of capital and goods between the mainland and the rest of the world."

"An FTA with Hong Kong would complement our FTA with China and further integrate the Australian economy with Asia."

The trade minister said that Hong Kong has already been one of Australia's largest trading partners, and securing an FTA would ensure that Australia's relationship with the mega economy would remain strong.

"Hong Kong is Australia's leading business base in East Asia. More than 600 Australian businesses have a major presence there," Ciobo said.

"The Hong Kong economy) was Australia's eighth largest export market, worth 8.31 billion U.S. dollars last financial year. Overall it was Australia's 12th largest trading partner, with total two-way trade in goods and services worth 11.56 billion U.S. dollars."

"The (Australian government will continue to pursue) an ambitious trade agenda and more trade agreements to create more export opportunities for Australian businesses. More exports will create more Australian jobs."

Ciobo said the government will this week ask businesses and members of the public to put forward submissions in relation to a free trade agreement proposal.

.

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## grey boy 2

*String of violent street brawls prompts Hong Kong police crackdown on South Asian gang hang-outs*
The first fight on Saturday involved about 40 people, brandishing knives, golf clubs and glass bottles

PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 02 May, 2017, 8:02pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 03 May, 2017, 8:31am
Comments: 52 


Hong Kong police are planning a crackdown on South Asian gang hang-outs in the Kowloon West area following two street brawls in the last four days.

The first fight, which broke out in the Maple Street Playground in Sham Shui Po at about 10.15pm on Saturday, involved about 40 people from two Indian street gangs – some of whom were brandishing knives, golf clubs and glass bottles, police said.

It spilled onto Cheung Sha Wan Road and Lai Chi Kok Road before officers carrying shields arrived and broke up the fight.


Six Indian men – all asylum seekers aged 22 to 37 – were found injured and were taken to either Caritas Medical Centre in Cheung Sha Wan or Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Yau Ma Tei for treatment.


One of the men was arrested for wounding another, and police said they were still hunting for more than 30 others in connection with the incident.

“Investigations showed a dispute over trivial matters between the two Indian groups sparked the fight,” a police source said. “We believe most of them are asylum seekers and police are still searching for them.”

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, "ASAP to eliminate these illegal Indian exported criminals by any means, if our police force has failed to protect we Hongkongers from such evils for decades
1st, the ungrateful Vietnamese mobsters in the 70s and now Indians gangsters whom has been committed crimes left and right on a daily basis, The PLA in HK should taking responsibility to clean them up once and for all
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-crime/article/2092323/string-violent-street-brawls-prompts-hong-kong-police

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## TaiShang

One of the infectious legacies of UK colonialism. Clean them off, clean them off quickly. Send them back wherever they came from. 

When I was in Macau, some Indian-looking men loitering in the parks at night really disturbed the locals and they avoided such places.

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## AndrewJin

Disgusting people, deport them back

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## Chinese-Dragon

It's our fault for letting these asylum seekers in. What the Hell, just throw them all out now.

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## grey boy 2

*3 Indian gangsters war in a 4 days just the from the end of April to the beginning of May, HK citizens are living in fear now*
*4日3宗廝殺　暴力升級市民恐慌*
*




*
http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20170503/bkn-20170503033153598-0503_00822_001.html

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## grey boy 2

I started to believe in @Jlaw
Check out how these despicable Indians exporting criminals to HK and making big money on it







bahubali said:


> Just read the translation. Seems its a Pakistani gang war. Like they have in UK.


Nonsense miss in translation, read the English version of the OP article

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## TaiShang

grey boy 2 said:


> I started to believe in @Jlaw suggestion, perhaps we need to kill some of them as a warning, unfortunately we're too civilize to do that
> Check out how these despicable Indians exporting criminals to HK and making big money on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense miss in translation, read the English version of the OP article



Criminal syndicate all over. If HK cannot regulate its borders, perhaps it is time to let it be regulated by Mainland, according to the Mainland rules. 

For the low-paying jobs that locals do not want to do, increase automation, and bring in more desirable workers from nearby culture areas.

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## TaiShang

They have to be scared off so the incentives of being a criminal illegal immigrant in HK or MO would diminish. Life must be made so hard for them that they would eventually feel home is much better place. Executing exemplary harsh punishments is a must, including, resorting to fatal force in the face of vandalism, riot and assault on innocent people and their livelihoods.

How some European countries do with respect to illegal immigrants (although I believe Europe has a moral responsibility to host the people of the countries that they once colonized and taught their own language and culture).

China has zero (0) morel or technical responsibility to the undesirable foreign human trash.

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## Chinese-Dragon

TaiShang said:


> Criminal syndicate all over. If HK cannot regulate its borders, perhaps it is time to let it be regulated by Mainland, according to the Mainland rules.



This is a stark reminder as to what the Mainland has in their future if they decide to follow the system we have in Hong Kong.

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## TaiShang

Chinese-Dragon said:


> This is a stark reminder as to what the Mainland has in their future if they decide to follow the system we have in Hong Kong.
> 
> Luckily we have not reached the level of Ferguson in the US, but if we keep letting these asylum seekers in we won't be far off.
> 
> Ferguson, USA:



Exactly. To comprehend the potential menace unregulated immigration and lenient illegal immigrant laws might bring, one needs to look no further than China's own Macau and Hong Kong.

Hopefully, authorities are taking good example from this. 

Bring in the few best and brightest. Not human trash. Undesirable works? Robotize them.

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> I don't think mainlander want the HK system. Its totally fucked up.



It is colonial law, so, it would be impossible not to suck big time. HK and MO as they stand today are literal insults on Chinese Constitution, the highest law in the land. 

The illegal/legal immigration problem is just one aspect of it.

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## AndrewJin

grey boy 2 said:


> *Yau Ma Tei attack is a wake-up call to do right by Hong Kong’s ethnic minorities*
> It is estimated that as many as 15,000 Nepalis live in Yau Ma Tei and Jordan. Most were born in Hong Kong and are mainly the second and third generations of the Gurkha troops who were stationed here.* They hold Hong Kong identity cards and speak fluent Cantonese.*
> 
> We Hongkongers are now paying the price of our policy of "Non discriminated committed to shelter all those so-called "Vietnamese Boat people", "Asylum seekers" on the base of fear of torture and abuse from their own countries, "And now, these ungrateful criminals are biting the hands that feed them"
> 
> We sheltered them, feed them with our money, educated them, let them to enjoy our "15 years of free education same as the local Hongkongers" issued them HK identity cards so that they can work and stay in HK
> In return, once our free "education" enable them to speak and write Chinese (Cantonese for Vietnamese trashes) only, cos we don't teach "Mandarin" in the public school at that time
> A lot of them has been taking advantage of their "Chinese languages skills" pretending as "Chinese, especially ONLINE" "faking as a Chinese that anti-China", we even got a few on this forum"
> 
> *Just like to let everyone know "KNOW how to READ or WRITE Chinese DOES NOT equal he's Chinese, please don't let this internet criminals to mislead you, "They AIN'T CHINESE" judge them from their "Posting rather than their FLAGS"*
> US president Trump granddaughter can speak and write Chinese, Does that made her a Chinese? you be the judge


Indian refugees are the same cancerous, no value to HK society at all.

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## terranMarine

Deport those Indians back to where they came from (the land of freedom, most democratic nation in the world)

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Deport those Hindus back to where they came from (the land of freedom, most democratic nation in the world), even ungrateful Viets should be deported, those ingrates are like cockroaches



Indeed. There must be lots of great paying, high-value service jobs waiting for them back home. Why do street cleaning or trash-collecting jobs in HK or Macao (I see lots of them each time I visit these two half-united regions)?

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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> Indeed. There must be lots of great paying, high-value service jobs waiting for them back home. Why do street cleaning or trash-collecting jobs in HK or Macao (I see lots of them each time I visit these two half-united regions)?


Yeah, go back home to do the IT call centre work that nobody in the world has the intelligence and accent to do.

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## AndrewJin

terranMarine said:


> These ingrate Viets like to play victim and innocent cards all the time, they are supposedly the most peaceful people on earth. Once we have our gears ready, the fish in SCS shall find more food in abundance


indian refugees in HK should be deported back.

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## terranMarine

bahubali said:


> Wasnt a Chinese general crying on live tv because he got thrashed by the vietnamese ? Very humiliating for the chinese.



You can understand Chinese? Really got trashed? What part of the video made this claim? That's news to everybody here.



AndrewJin said:


> Boat people and hindu refugees in HK should be deported back.


MAss deportation i support, they have nothing to search for on CHINESE SOIL. Go back to their rat holes

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## Mugwop

It's understandable to form a gang in the west but why would you "south asians" need to form one in Hong Kong which is a peaceful place.

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## Mugwop

bahubali said:


> "You" south asians ?
> Tu asman se tapka hai ?


Why are you getting so hostile? Their anger is justified. If some foreigners behave like this in your country you would get angry as well.

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## Mugwop

bahubali said:


> The whole thread reeks of racism. Just having some fun with the soopah power.
> You guys are so sold out that on your own site no Pakistani is commenting on their observations on south asians.


Your observations and views on both Chinese and Pakistanis are clearly worse. 
If my countrymen behave like this in a foreign country for no reason.I would condemn it.

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## Deidara

@grey boy 2 why are you so tough on Indians. Arent they a very agreeable folk overall ? They are just like Chinese in many respects. Because China and India are so much larger than anyone else. Their citizens show remarkable freedom and peace of mind. Its like the mentality of a single person on a small island abundant in resources. Not a worry in the world because as far as he is concerned there is not a thing wrong in the world. His whole world obviously being that little island. China and India are so big that they are a world onto themselves. And this very size makes this world immune to outside influences. Reinforcing the idea in the subconscious that their own country is all the world there is.
Small countries can become obsessed with the power dynamics of the outside world and when they do their people become the most pig-headed in the world. Losing all mercantile, scientific and artistic ability.


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## kankan326

Unlike western countries, China doesn't pursue multiracial and multicultural society. I'm very glad for that. But then I realized China has its Achilles' heel, which is Hongkong. People there are westernized. Which is something some HK ppl are proud of. For me it's nothing but bullshit.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I won't label human treatment if HK put them in concentration camps. You probably mean @jhungary, maybe he can confirm if he is a fake chinese ex viet refugee descendant.



lol, he is hiding the news. The news is about South Asian Gang war in Hong Kong, Pakistani Gang vs Indian Gang, much like here on PDF, just more violent. But in his post, he only point the finger to Indian, and make it look like it's Indian Gang killing other Indian, which is just sad.

The Full News from Apple Daily he post at post number 6

*東方日報A1：4日3宗廝殺　暴力升級市民恐慌*

南亞兵團暴力升級，四日三宗拉大隊上街廝殺，戰火由西九蔓延東九。南亞假難民的治安毒瘤爆發，連場腥風血雨愈演愈烈。繼上周六逾五十名印巴漢在深水埗楓樹街械鬥，前晚深夜南亞幫再燃戰火，逾卅名南亞惡煞持開山刀及球棍，由深水埗殺氣騰騰掩至牛頭角追斬仇家，途人雞飛狗走及報警，刀手在警方趕到前鳥獸散；個半小時後，兩幫敵對南亞兵團返回深水埗再爆血戰，橫跨數條街揮刀棍追劈，大批警員趕至拘捕五人，包括三名巴籍聲請漢及兩名本地印度漢，並檢獲刀棍等武器，有街坊擔心南亞幫刀光血影會殃及無辜市民。

首輪廝殺在牛頭角定安街發生。前晚十一時許，兩幫疑有積怨的南亞幫逾卅人，疑因金錢起衝突，當中涉及本地的南亞人，各自從假難民聚居的深水埗召集打手。據目擊者指，他們分別持長鐵通、開山刀及壘球棍等，在定安街富安大廈對開毗鄰車房外「操過」，各人兇神惡煞疑似講數及大聲叫囂，未幾雙方展開追逐，期間有南亞兵從附近後巷取出約呎半長開山刀追出，有車房工人恐殃及池魚，一度拉閘戒備，又即返入車房暫避，警方收到多名熱心市民報案，另有人暗中拍下其中十名刀手橫行街頭的影像。

大批衝鋒隊警員趕至，南亞兵團即鳥獸散，分頭向牛頭角道遊樂場及牛頭角道方向逃去。其後在牛頭角道遊樂場檢獲一支鐵通，警方將案件列作在公眾地方打架，交秀茂坪警區刑事調查隊跟進。不過餘波未了。至昨凌晨零時半，疑逃回深水埗的南亞幫在荔枝角道近桂林街狹路相逢再爆廝殺，部分人手持長刀及球棍追斬毆鬥，而數十名同鄉在街上吶喊助威。多輛衝鋒車趕至，大批機動部隊警員增援搜捕，在南昌街近大南街交界，截獲四名南亞裔男子，但相信與案無關，但揭發其中一人疑欠交罰款遭通緝，帶署調查。

另一批機動部隊人員追至南昌街近海壇街交界，*截獲五名南亞漢（年齡介乎十七至廿三歲），其中三人為巴基斯坦籍，均以酷刑聲請獲發「行街紙」留港，其中一人有黑幫背景，另兩人則為印度漢，持香港身份證*，警員在街頭檢獲至少兩把開山刀及兩把牛肉刀、一支壘球棍及口罩，五漢涉藏有攻擊性武器被捕。警方不排除案中有傷者為逃避追查而拒絕求醫。

連串南亞兵街頭暴力規模有升級之勢，不排除事態擴大，在上周六晚上亦上演印巴大戰。逾五十名南亞漢在深水埗楓樹街遊樂場追劈，大部分人手持利刀及鐵棍等，有人逃至黃竹街與長沙灣道交界馬路中互掟武器，途人報警。事件中有六名印度酷刑聲請漢受傷送院，其中一人涉傷人被捕。據悉，上周六和昨日的廝殺起因不同，但均涉及深水埗的酷刑聲請者，警方將會採取大型行動遏止廝殺。

更多新聞，請瀏覽東方日報網頁：
*http://orientaldaily.on.cc*
*




*
*4月29日　逾半百南亞漢在深水埗街頭聚集。




5月2日　五名南亞漢於深水埗海壇街被捕。（胡德威攝）



*

http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20170503/bkn-20170503033153598-0503_00822_001.html

Basically the news said The HKP arrested 5 people in connection to the fighting, 3 of Pakistani Origin, holding temporary ID (Which is the asylum seeker he is talking about), one of the arrested Pakistani have gang background, 2 men arrested is of Indian Origin, holding HKID Card.

The situation is sometime out of control, given the Pakistani and Indian does not go along pretty well in just about everywhere, this bound to happen, and it did happen in a lot of country.

You all just got hacked by this news. In fact, the way apple daily wrote that article is actually pointing the finger at Pakistani gang for starting all the trouble.

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## Offshore

grey boy 2 said:


> I started to believe in @Jlaw suggestion, perhaps we need to kill some of them as a warning, unfortunately we're too civilize to do that
> Check out how these despicable Indians exporting criminals to HK and making big money on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense miss in translation, read the English version of the OP article



Hongkonger is not too civilized, but too weak minded.
Hingkong need a leadership that have balls like China.

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## Shotgunner51

All members stay on topic. Opinion allowed, fact finding encouraged, no personal/national/racial attack, please use proper language.

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## jhungary

Just for reference. The original Article in SCMP the OP post in Post 1.
*
String of violent street brawls prompts Hong Kong police crackdown on South Asian gang hang-outs
*
The first fight on Saturday involved about 40 people, brandishing knives, golf clubs and glass bottles


PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 02 May, 2017, 8:02pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 03 May, 2017, 8:31am

Comments: 61 







Police respond to gang fights in Sham Shui Po. Photo: Facebook



Clifford Lo


Politics
Minorities poorly served on community projects, audit report reveals
27 Apr 2017
Hong Kong police are planning a crackdown on South Asian gang hang-outs in the Kowloon West area following two street brawls in the last four days.

The first fight, which broke out in the Maple Street Playground in Sham Shui Po at about 10.15pm on Saturday, involved about 40 people from two Indian street gangs – some of whom were brandishing knives, golf clubs and glass bottles, police said.

It spilled onto Cheung Sha Wan Road and Lai Chi Kok Road before officers carrying shields arrived and broke up the fight.

Four accused of attack inside Hong Kong’s Jordan MTR station walk free from court







Police respond to the brawl in Sham Shui Po over the weekend. Photo: Facebook

Six Indian men – all asylum seekers aged 22 to 37 – were found injured and were taken to either Caritas Medical Centre in Cheung Sha Wan or Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Yau Ma Tei for treatment.

One of the men was arrested for wounding another, and police said they were still hunting for more than 30 others in connection with the incident.

“Investigations showed a dispute over trivial matters between the two Indian groups sparked the fight,” a police source said. “We believe most of them are asylum seekers and police are still searching for them.”

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Police said they stepped up patrols in the area after the fight.

Hong Kong’s South Asian community caught in poverty trap

Location of Saturday’s brawl


However, a second clash involving about 20 Indian and Pakistani men broke out shortly before 12.30am on Tuesday at the junction of Kweilin Street and Lai Chi Kok Road – 100 metres from the Sham Shui Po police station.

Police said they had since arrested three Pakistanis and two Indians in Nam Cheong Street in connection with the incident. Four knives and a baseball bat were also seized. The five suspects were arrested for the possession of offensive weapons.

Hong Kong police manhunt continues after bloody Yau Ma Tei gang fight ends in shooting







Police came out in force last October after a fight between South Asian men in Yau Ma Tei. Photo: Sam Tsang



“They remained tight-lipped and refused to reveal what happened. We are still investigating the motive behind the fight,” the source said. “But initial investigations showed the fights were not linked.”

Another source said Sham Shui Po police were now planning an “anti-crime operation” in the Kowloon West region, targeting the hideouts and hang-outs of South Asian gangs.

“During the operation, police will raid their hideouts and locations such as playgrounds, where South Asians usually hang out at night,” the source said.

Separately, police said a gang of more than 10 South Asian men carrying knives gathered in Ngau Tau Kok at about 10pm on Monday for “a showdown”. They fled before officers arrived and no one has been arrested.






This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as:
Brawls involving South Asian men spur crackdown
*
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...reet-brawls-prompts-hong-kong-police#comments

As I said, you all got hacked by the OP, he did not report the news in full*

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## Naveed66

Being a pakistani living in Hong Kong since childhood. My opinion is that HK government should not let them asylum seeker to cross border from China. These people have spoiled the reputation of pakistanis in hong kong. [emoji35]

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## jhungary

Naveed66 said:


> Being a pakistani living in Hong Kong since childhood. My opinion is that HK government should not let them asylum seeker to cross border from China. These people have spoiled the reputation of pakistanis in hong kong. [emoji35]



Well, gang problem are everywhere, and seeing there are blood involved between Pakistani and Indian, I think it's only natural to have this problem. 

However, gang problem almost always not related to people seeking asylum, because most people in all sort can join a gang, it does not simply reserved for asylum seeker or illegal immigrant, and rather we look at this as an asylum seeker problem, we should actually look at this as a gang problem, maybe separate the two gang from their territories or try to find a way to deal with this violence.

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## bbccdd1470

grey boy 2 said:


> I'm only pointing out the obvious with "FACTS" check out yourself what we have done for the "going to be fish food boat people" and what they gave us back in return
> Oh btw, a Vietnamese "faked asylum seeker" just stabbed a 7-11 store owner at the heart and kill him in front of his 2 kids for shop lifting just a few months back, nice people?


Recently the HK police just arrested a Vietnamese axe robber who robbed three 7-11 stores in a week, which is sad that he is also a "asylum seeker". Our laws is too loose for them to exploit our kindness. Just saying, *not all asylum seekers are bad, some are hard working and willing to do work that no HK people want to do*. But this is also a fact that the crime rate is raising due to the increased number of the asylum seekers.

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## grey boy 2

jhungary said:


> Well, gang problem are everywhere, and seeing there are blood involved between Pakistani and Indian, I think it's only natural to have this problem.
> 
> However, gang problem almost always not related to people seeking asylum, because most people in all sort can join a gang, it does not simply reserved for asylum seeker or illegal immigrant, and rather we look at this as an asylum seeker problem, *we should actually look at this as a gang problem, maybe separate the two gang from their territories or try to find a way to deal with this violence.*


Brilliant idea, post of the year, i hope you're just trolling instead of being serious
However, sorry, HK ain't going to bow down to these "criminals" as you please.

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## bbccdd1470

grey boy 2 said:


> Brilliant idea, post of the year, i hope you're just trolling instead of being serious
> However, sorry, HK ain't going to bow down to these "criminals" as you please.


To be fair, our gang problem were much worse in the 70s to 90s. Gang violence were quit common at that time, but when HK was able to return to China, all gangster Bosses made a deal with the CCP to ensure the peace in HK, thus our organized crime rate decreased. This was also the same way how Macau deal with their gang violence. The problem we have today is our gang violence are mostly done by the "foreign gangs", and I doubt they will listen to the CCP. Therefore, the better way to deal with them is to put more restriction on applying asylum to decrease their number for new recruits and cut their finance by harder policing on their illegal activities.

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## Jacob Martin

Ascertain their nationalities and deport them back.



AndrewJin said:


> Why indians r so racist towards their own black skin?
> Why they hate themselves from language to skin color?



You are talking about thugs. This is gang violence and therefore a law and order issue, not a race issue.

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## scherz

Open Border is the *death *of every civilization. Like the fall of Rom and the European Union right now. Dont make this mistake.

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## Place Of Space

What kind of asylum seekers?

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## Shotgunner51

Naveed66 said:


> Being a pakistani living in Hong Kong since childhood. My opinion is that HK government should not let them asylum seeker to cross border from China. These people have spoiled the reputation of pakistanis in hong kong. [emoji35]


*HKSAR citizens irregard of their cultural background or ethnicity, most of them are law abiding.* Many minority groups also serve in law enforcement (see below) and contribute to HK like any other citizen does. HK society should protect civil rights of all citizens, punish law offenders but without stereotyping any specific group.

*HK police's Project Gemstone helps ethnic minorities learn Cantonese and build careers*
A special programme helps people from non-ethnically-Chinese communities find jobs in the city, and lead fulfilling lives
By Sebastien Raybaud with additional reporting by Heidi Yeung




April 19, 2017














Read the full article at http://yp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/106066/look-project-gemstone-hong-kong’s-police-programme-ethnic-minorities​
*About foreigners, it's a separate issue*. HK as a business hub should welcome anyone to stay as travelers, workers (with proper permit, HK suffers a shortage of labor in many lines of work), students or any other legit purposes. About taking in political refugees or asylum seekers, HK being a wealthy society, allocating some of its record breaking fiscal surpluses (+3.1% of GDP 2015, 12th highest in the world) for global humanitarian purpose is a noble act. But HK should face the fact that though this policy has benevolent intention, but it is often being abused in execution, I suggest loopholes in the execution must be amended.

Hong Kong fiscal surpluses:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hong-kong-to-unveil-record-budget-surplus-and-rebates
https://home.kpmg.com/cn/en/home/news-media/press-releases/2017/02/kpmg-forecasts-hk-budget.html​

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## Sully3

why the hell are these indians wanting asylum in HK, i thought India was a super power and its people didn't want to leave such an amazing democratic country like India.

Indians bringing their rubbish culture everywhere, these asylum seekers should be sent back to India in the hell hole they belong.

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## Fledgingwings

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It's our fault for letting these asylum seekers in. What the Hell, just throw them all out now.


Its not your fault.just prosecute and send them back or in jail.

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## Zsari

Shotgunner51 said:


> *HKSAR citizens irregard of their cultural background or ethnicity, most of them are law abiding.* Many minority groups also serve in law enforcement (see below) and contribute to HK like any other citizen does. HK society should protect civil rights of all citizens, punish law offenders but without stereotyping any specific group.
> 
> *HK police's Project Gemstone helps ethnic minorities learn Cantonese and build careers*
> A special programme helps people from non-ethnically-Chinese communities find jobs in the city, and lead fulfilling lives
> By Sebastien Raybaud with additional reporting by Heidi Yeung
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> 
> View attachment 394435
> 
> View attachment 394438
> 
> View attachment 394443
> 
> 
> Read the full article at http://yp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/106066/look-project-gemstone-hong-kong’s-police-programme-ethnic-minorities​
> *About foreigners, it's a separate issue*. HK as a business hub should welcome anyone to stay as travelers, workers (with proper permit, HK suffers a shortage of labor in many lines of work), students or any other legit purposes. About taking in political refugees or asylum seekers, HK being a wealthy society, allocating some of its record breaking fiscal surpluses (+3.1% of GDP 2015, 12th highest in the world) for global humanitarian purpose is a noble act. But HK should face the fact that though this policy has benevolent intention, but it is often being abused in execution, I suggest loopholes in the execution must be amended.
> 
> Hong Kong fiscal surpluses:
> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hong-kong-to-unveil-record-budget-surplus-and-rebates
> https://home.kpmg.com/cn/en/home/news-media/press-releases/2017/02/kpmg-forecasts-hk-budget.html​



Overall a bad idea. HK is already overcrowded. While allocating budget for humanitarian purpose is a noble idea, one doesn't necessarily have to take in refugees and asylum seekers.

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## Shotgunner51

Zsari said:


> Overall a bad idea. HK is already overcrowded. While allocating budget for humanitarian purpose is a noble idea, one doesn't necessarily have to take in refugees and asylum seekers.


Being part of the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees) led international effort to help political refugees, asylum seekers or torture claimants, Hong Kong is providing manpower and financial resources to help, but you are right that Hong Kong is already an overcrowded space. The problem is complicated.

Porous border: Being a regional transportation hub with long coastlines, difficult to stop influx of migrants. Routing via Guangdong is another difficulty since Hong Kong and Guangdong have different visa policies.
Lack of hardware: In the 1970's, Hong Kong has purposely built, semi-quarantined and well managed refugee camps, but nowadays those facilities were already demolished, refugees are given financial aid to find their own residence among local populace. If they cannot integrate and get steady jobs, social problems like crime will arise.

Social sympathy: Hong Kong society (lawmakers, media, NGO, general public) in general is sympathetic towards legit refugees, and that Hong Kong's judicial system is very slow in reviewing policy loopholes where economic migrant may abuse the asylum (torture claim) status.
No exit valve: Difficulty to repatriate them to third countries like Australia or Canada who are tightening screening mechanism, let alone others who even shut their doors. UNHCR is stretched in resources, cannot help nor efficiently coordinate international efforts. Costs should be split between Hong Kong and UN, but from 1970's till nowadays, UN still owe Hong Kong loan amounted to HKD1.61 billion.

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## Jlaw

bbccdd1470 said:


> Recently the HK police just arrested a Vietnamese axe robber who robbed three 7-11 stores in a week, which is sad that he is also a "asylum seeker". Our laws is too loose for them to exploit our kindness. Just saying, *not all asylum seekers are bad, some are hard working and willing to do work that no HK people want to do*. But this is also a fact that the crime rate is raising due to the increased number of the asylum seekers.


I think you HK liberal government is going to get bit ten in the *** in the future. Europe, already having issues with asylum seekers. You guys are asking for trouble.

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## Mugwop

How did the brawl start in the first place?


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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> I think you HK liberal government is going to get bit ten in the *** in the future. Europe, already having issues with asylum seekers. You guys are asking for trouble.


We signed this asylum treaty way before 1997, this was never our will to do it but by the Brits using our money. Beside the humanitarian reason, there are many voices in HK support to leave this treaty but our "liberal" Final Court and counsellors are strongly against it. This all start in 2004 by our Court decision to allow them (South Asian) to come in. Not to mention, there was a time when the HK government was about to deport those fake asylum seekers who are disqualified for the application , our "liberal" counsellors call for a court review to delay the deportation, since it will take at least a few years to finalize the decision. What I want to say is that was never our government fault, but a particular faction that wants to cause conflicts and instability in my city. Just like the Yellow umbrella movement in 2014.

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## Sheikh Rauf

Double faced people they will argue with you all day about the greatness of INDIA but when they get chance they will run away from that greatness hole. just look at the recent HB1 visa of US how indians are so worried about it. Australia NZ HK Indonesia malaysia N America all flooded by Asylum seekers. 
its impossible to find out if they are geniune cuz asylum seekers raiz all issues in front of immigration which make india shine.

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## Tshering22

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Double faced people they will argue with you all day about the greatness of INDIA but when they get chance they will run away from that greatness hole. just look at the recent HB1 visa of US how indians are so worried about it. Australia NZ HK Indonesia malaysia N America all flooded by Asylum seekers.
> its impossible to find out if they are geniune cuz asylum seekers raiz all issues in front of immigration which make india shine.



The H1B visa is temporary work permit for IT and related field workforce in India.

It is not a permanent settlement programme. Since IT exports are high from India in services sector, this will have an impact.

Don't speak about a situation if you don't know why.

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## Naveed66

By the way my barber is also a asylum seeker [emoji38][emoji38]

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## Sheikh Rauf

Tshering22 said:


> The H1B visa is temporary work permit for IT and related field workforce in India.
> 
> It is not a permanent settlement programme. Since IT exports are high from India in services sector, this will have an impact.
> 
> Don't speak about a situation if you don't know why.



It shows the desperation of indian to Leave india. Even temporary work permit is precious to Indians. 20% in HK asylum seeks are Indians.

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## Place Of Space

Naveed66 said:


> By the way my barber is also a asylum seeker [emoji38][emoji38]



I am interested in your story. Do you easily leave for or live in other cities in China?


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## rott

TaiShang said:


> Criminal syndicate all over. If HK cannot regulate its borders, perhaps it is time to let it be regulated by Mainland, according to the Mainland rules.
> 
> For the low-paying jobs that locals do not want to do, increase automation, and bring in more desirable workers from nearby culture areas.


If the people in Hong Kong are fine with it, I don't see why not the pla play an active role.



Fledgingwings said:


> Its not your fault.just prosecute and send them back or in jail.


Should deport them back. Jail is just a waste taxes.

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## grey boy 2

rott said:


> If the people in Hong Kong are fine with it, I don't see why not the pla play an active role.



Bro, "ONE COUNTRY" is always over riding "TWO SYSTEM" 
According to the mini constitution "BASIC LAW" ALL "DEFENSE and DIPLOMATIC ISSUES" are under the administration of the "CENTRAL GOVERNMENT"
In other words, if there's having a crisis in HK that that local police force is unable to handle(DEFENSE under THREAT), thats what the PLA in HK are there for

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## rott

grey boy 2 said:


> Bro, "ONE COUNTRY" is always over riding "TWO SYSTEM"
> According to the mini constitution "BASIC LAW" ALL "DEFENSE and DIPLOMATIC ISSUES" are under the administration of the "CENTRAL GOVERNMENT"
> In other words, if there's having a crisis in HK that that local police force is unable to handle(DEFENSE under THREAT), thats what the PLA in HK are there for


Thanks bro!

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## Jlaw

bbccdd1470 said:


> We signed this asylum treaty way before 1997, this was never our will to do it but by the Brits using our money. Beside the humanitarian reason, there are many voices in HK support to leave this treaty but our "liberal" Final Court and counsellors are strongly against it. This all start in 2004 by our Court decision to allow them (South Asian) to come in. Not to mention, there was a time when the HK government was about to deport those fake asylum seekers who are disqualified for the application , our "liberal" counsellors call for a court review to delay the deportation, since it will take at least a few years to finalize the decision. What I want to say is that was never our government fault, but a particular faction that wants to cause conflicts and instability in my city. Just like the Yellow umbrella movement in 2014.


Either way let's see if these asylum seekers start to cause more trouble like the Syrians did to German people during new year 2016.


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## TaiShang

*Hong Kong's global competitiveness ascending over 20 years*

Source: Xinhua | 11:44 UTC+8 June 28, 2017 | 






Buildings along the Victoria Harbour are illuminated to celebrate the 20 years of Hong Kong's return to China. -- IC

JOHNNY Ng, the first post-doctorate student from Hong Kong at Tsinghua University,* could not understand Mandarin two decades ago and did not expect his business to thrive on the Chinese mainland.*

Ng, chairman of Hong Kong United Youth Association, came to Beijing in 2004 for study, and unexpectedly found technology professionals who lent support to his company Titanium Group, which specializes in facial recognition systems. Years later, his products are widely used on the mainland.

His experience offers an example of closer ties between Hong Kong and the mainland, with Hong Kong entrepreneurs finding business opportunities on the mainland and helping sustain Hong Kong's global competitiveness.

July 1 marks the 20th anniversary of Hong Kong's return from British colonial rule and the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR).

The past two decades witnessed the ascent of Hong Kong's global competitiveness, supported by a sound business environment, solid infrastructure, and a complementary Chinese mainland market.

The HKSAR was rated the most competitive among 63 economies, followed by Switzerland, Singapore and the United States, the second year in a row to occupy the top spot, according to the International Institute for Management Development (IMD) World Competitiveness Yearbook 2017.

Hong Kong ranked third on the IMD World Competitiveness scoreboard in 1997, trailing the United States and Singapore.

Among the four competitiveness factors in IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook 2017, Hong Kong ranked top globally in "government efficiency" and "business efficiency," according to the HKSAR government.

The indicators that stood out among the most improved economies were related to government and business efficiency as well as productivity, and these economies "have maintained a business-friendly environment that encourages openness and productivity," said Arturo Bris, director of the IMD World Competitiveness Center.

The view was echoed by Xiao Geng, professor at the University of Hong Kong, who said that the competitiveness of Hong Kong mainly came from its open and free market tradition and institutions.

"Although costs of production factors such as talent and land are very expensive, the transaction costs of making trade and finance deals are low, so that Hong Kong is becoming a global hub for trade, investment and finance," he said.

The steady rise of Hong Kong's global competitiveness was reflected in other leading rankings including the Global Competitiveness Index released by the World Economic Forum (WEF).

Ranked in the top 10 for the fifth consecutive year, Hong Kong achieved a strong and consistent performance, the WEF said in its Global Competitiveness Report 2016-2017.

The WEF cited the highly sophisticated and trustworthy financial sector, competitive and open market, as well as the flexible and efficient labor market as key factors supporting Hong Kong's high ranking.

"Behind the highly efficient trade and financial markets is Hong Kong's solid public infrastructure, both hard and soft, including high-density urban housing and transport systems, independent and robust legal and financial institutions, stable currency regime, and clean and efficient civil services," said Xiao, also president of the Hong Kong Institution for International Finance.

Hong Kong has been ranked among the world's most business-friendly economies since the World Bank began to release its Doing Business report in 2005. The Doing Business 2017 report ranked Hong Kong fourth for ease of doing business among 190 economies, compared to fifth in the previous report, said Klaus Koch-Saldarriaga, member of the World Bank's Doing Business team.

The Doing Business report finds that Hong Kong has created a better business environment in the past decade. Since 2008, Hong Kong has implemented 21 reforms to make it easier to do business, which translated into substantive improvements in the local business regulatory framework, he said.

*HONG KONG-MAINLAND TOGETHER*

The rise of Hong Kong's global competitiveness was in tandem with the reform and opening up of the mainland, *whose ranking on the IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook climbed from 27 in 1997 to 25 in 2016 and jumped to 18 in 2017.*

The remarkable improvement of the Chinese mainland in the ranking can be traced to its dedication to international trade, and "this continues to drive the economy and the improvement in government and business efficiency," said Bris of the IMD World Competitiveness Center.

*Hong Kong is not alone in its competitiveness stamina, as it is partly a reflection of Chinese mainland's ascent in global competitiveness over the last two decades*, said Wendy Liu, head of Nomura China equity research.

Under the "one country, two systems," Hong Kong is not only able to preserve the free market ecosystem but also deepen its economic integration with the mainland, particularly with the neighboring Guangdong Province, Xiao said.

"The complementary cities of Shenzhen as the mainland's top innovation center, Guangzhou as its major international and domestic trade hub, and Foshan and Dongguan as its key manufacturing bases, have helped Hong Kong deepen its financial markets for cross-border transactions, as demonstrated by the successful launch of a number of cross-border bridging services for trading of stocks and bonds in Hong Kong," Xiao said.

*"Unlike our parents' generation who made profits by setting up plants on the mainland, young people in Hong Kong can tap the career development potential given by opportunities like the Belt and Road Initiative and the construction of Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area,"* Ng said.

CHALLENGES, HOPES AHEAD

The HKSAR is not without its challenges to keep its global competitiveness, including innovation bottlenecks and high living costs.

"The challenge for Hong Kong is to evolve from one of the world's foremost financial hubs to become an innovative powerhouse," noted the WEF's Global Competitiveness Report 2016-2017.

Many say a top challenge facing Hong Kong is the lack of property supply. Hong Kong's low taxation, efficient governance, safe and clean environment and beautiful nature are appealing to talents and investors, but many have been held back by the high costs for housing and private education, said Liu.

Xiao believes that the main challenge for Hong Kong in the future is keeping its competitive institutions while relaxing a number of its physical and social bottlenecks and constraints in land, property and talents.

"Despite marked improvements, there are still areas to tackle in order to ease the business climate for local entrepreneurs in Hong Kong and achieve long-term sustainability of very good results, as there is room for improvement in the areas of registering property, trading across borders and resolving insolvency," said Koch-Saldarriaga of the World Bank.

However, Hong Kong will be able to maintain its global competitiveness since the main factors behind its success, including strong commitment of the central government to the "one country, two systems," deep and expanding mainland markets, and resilient market systems, have not changed, Xiao said.

"If Hong Kong entrepreneurs can fully tap the huge market and technology potential in the mainland, that will greatly help Hong Kong to keep its global competitiveness," Ng said.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nation...iveness-ascending-over-20-years/shdaily.shtml

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## lastone

*Hong Kong marks 20 years since handover to China*

1 hour ago

From the sectionChina


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Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionCarrie Lam shakes hands with President Xi after swearing an oath of office in Hong Kong
The Chinese president has sworn in the new leader of Hong Kong, Carrie Lam, as the territory marks 20 years since its handover to China from Britain.

Xi Jinping joined a series of lavish events, including a flag-raising ceremony, amid tight police security.

But clashes have taken place between pro-democracy and pro-Beijing demonstrators close to the site, with several arrests made.

In a speech, Mr Xi said Hong Kong now enjoyed more freedom than ever before.

It was his first visit to the city since becoming leader in 2013 and comes three years after mass pro-democracy rallies crippled parts of the territory for months.






Media captionOne protester gets caught up in a scuffle with police
The pro-democracy party, Demosisto, said police had arrested five of its members, and four members from the League of Social Democrats.

Among those said by the group to have been arrested was Joshua Wong, the leader of the so-called umbrella protest movement.

*Slammed to the ground - Juliana Liu, BBC News, Hong Kong correspondent*



Image copyrightAFP/GETTY IMAGES
It was meant to be a routine demonstration by pro-democracy protesters.

The leaders of the League of Social Democrats and Demosisto had gathered to make their way to the square in the Wanchai district where the flag-raising ceremony was taking place. They were demanding greater voting rights for Hong Kong, as well the immediate release of the Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo.

But without warning, scuffles began between the demonstrators and the police. Faces were slammed to the ground. And then pro-Beijing supporters turned up, waving flags and blaring patriotic music. Each side was shouting abuse at the other.

The tussle went on for more than an hour, with it ending only after the leaders of the pro-democracy demonstration were led away by police, who called it an illegal gathering.

Meanwhile, Mr Xi has overseen the swearing in of the newly-elected chief executive of the territory, Carrie Lam, along with the rest of her cabinet. She is Hong Kong's first female leader.

In a speech on Saturday the Chinese president said Hong Kong now enjoyed more freedom than ever before, but warned against "impermissible" challenges to Beijing's authority over the city.

"Any attempt to endanger China's sovereignty and security, challenge the power of the central government... or use Hong Kong to carry out infiltration and sabotage activities against the mainland is an act that crosses the red line and is absolutely impermissible," he said.

*Read more about Hong Kong since the handover:*

Beijing's struggle to win HK's young hearts
Chris Patten: HK democracy cannot be ignored
Why Britain returned Hong Kong to China
It followed a ceremony in which the flags of China and Hong Kong were raised alongside one another to mark the 20-year anniversary of the city's handover of British rule.

Helicopters flew overhead as onlookers cheered at the ceremony in Golden Bauhinia Square, central Hong Kong.

On Friday, an official protest zone near the convention centre where Mr Xi was guest of honour at an anniversary banquet and variety performance was heavily patrolled, as demonstrators gathered chanting "end one-party dictatorship".




Image copyrightAFP/GETTY IMAGES
Image captionHelicopters pass the flags of China and Hong Kong at Golden Bauhinia Square



Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionCarrie Lam arrives for the flag raising ceremony ahead of her swearing in as chief executive



Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionThe flags of China and Hong Kong are raised during a ceremony on Saturday
There is growing concern that the Chinese central government is undermining Hong Kong's more politically liberal traditions, despite its promise to give it a high degree of autonomy under the "one country, two systems" principle.

Democracy campaigners clashed with pro-Beijing supporters near the venue, with police separating the two sides.

Among the pro-democracy activists was Mr Wong, who earlier told demonstrators that the only person responsible for "causing a public nuisance" was "Xi Jinping".




Image copyrightAFP/GETTY IMAGES
Image captionPresident Xi (centre-right, wearing red tie) joins performers in singing "My Country"
He and 25 other activists were arrested on Wednesday for "breaking the 'public nuisance' law" after climbing into a golden sculpture of a bauhinia flower, Hong Kong's emblem.

The sculpture, which sits by the city's harbour front, was a gift from China and an iconic landmark symbolising the handover.

The demonstrators, who were demanding greater political freedoms, also called for the release of terminally ill Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo.






Media captionStudent leader Joshua Wong was dragged away by police officers earlier this week
Mr Wong was released on Friday morning, the political party Demosisto, founded by him and legislator Nathan Law, said in a tweet.

Police said in a statement the activists had been released on bail and must report back to police in September. They have not been charged.

Their protest was the second one this week at the monument - activists had earlier draped a large black flag over the sculpture and were stopped by police.

*Read more about Hong Kong since the handover:*

Golden geese and democracy 'infections' - did predictions come true?
When HK languages get political
Hong Kong's hidden colonial relics
President Xi earlier on Friday inspected troops at a local garrison as part of what was described as the largest military parade in the city since its handover to China in 1997, Reuters news agency reports.

Mr Xi gave a short speech on Thursday after his arrival where he pledged Beijing's support for Hong Kong, and later met with the city's outgoing leader Leung Chun-ying and other officials.

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## Pangu

Much ado about nothing.

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## bbccdd1470

One thing I assure that BBC have no shame, how could they point their finger when their people were doing much worse in their given chance. As other links, some topics are politicized with biased opinion, and some are self praised with imagination, like care HK democratic shit where I have to say "really".

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## Zibago

It seems like Mainland is going for one country one system policy at a faster pace than before


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Wait til the pro Beijing crowd comes out and drown this tiny rabble of traitors and sellouts.

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## bbccdd1470

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Wait til the pro Beijing crowd comes out and drown this tiny rabble of traitors and sellouts.


I'm kind of surprise that how few people are participating in 7/1 protest like other protests in the last few years, I believe that the Umbrella revolution has really woken many people up to realize the true intention behind the scene.

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## grey boy 2

bbccdd1470 said:


> I'm kind of surprise that how few people are participating in 7/1 protest like other protests in the last few years, I believe that the Umbrella revolution has really woken many people up to realize the true intention behind the scene.


Not surprising at all, "Faked Democracy Slogan" can only fool people that far, their double standard behavior clearly exposed the evil agenda is to take over the ruling power of HK from our motherland

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## ito

jetray said:


> * Drone Shows Thousands Filling Hong Kong Streets*



Man that is huge...it seem all of HK is on roads.

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## kris

No trolling

Have China brought any political reforms recently??
Every country keeps on changing.

Even Myanmar junta army gave away for people...

What's the main reason to resist a change??


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## dy1022

lastone said:


> No one wants these filthy chincoms.
> @Beast @rott @sinait
> See guys no one likes u even in H K.
> Everyone is showing u the finger.
> Best of luck in 1 china policy.




@waz

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## Beast

patman said:


> First call back your stinky people from other countries chinaman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And these these mainland hans are saying its all Photoshoped indian propaganda.


@Shotgunner51 please take care of this troll.

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## bbccdd1470

Hey my Chinese brothers, today is our 20th anniversary of HK returning to our motherland, let's celebrate together and don't let's the trolls screw our happy moment since their opinions do not matter, what matter is us the Chinese finally ended the western imperial invasion and colonization 20 years ago when HK was back to China.

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## qwerrty

patman said:


> Look at the 10 cent army claiming this is fake news and there is no freedom movement in Hongkong .
> 
> *I bet they will say even this is fake *



it's fake. all your photos and videos posted here were from 2014 has nothing to do with this topic. mod please ban this clown

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## nature is

*Hong Kong: Tens of thousands rally for Beijing*

*Pro-government protesters hit back with huge Hong Kong rally*
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/world/asia/hong-kong-anti-occupy-democracy-march/index.html

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## patman

*Xi Jinping warns democracy protesters in Hong Kong not to cross 'red line' *

*Hong Kong: *Chinese President Xi Jinping has warned Hong Kong's youth-led democracy movement not to cross China's red line, in a tough speech to mark the 20th anniversary of the Hong Kong handover.

He implicitly rejected the criticism that Beijing was increasingly interfering in Hong Kong's affairs, despite the promise given in 1997 that Hong Kong could keep a "high degree of autonomy" under the One Country, Two Systems policy.





"The people of Hong Kong enjoy more extensive democratic rights and freedoms than at any other time in its history," he said. Hong Kong had maintained its "capitalist system and way of life and its laws have remained basically unchanged".

One Country, Two Systems was designed to firmly uphold China's sovereignty, according to Mr Xi. He warned there had been "new developments", and the Hong Kong government needed to respond by improving its systems to ensure national sovereignty and security.





Pro-democracy lawmaker Leung Kwok-hung, centre, is taken away by Hong Kong police officers after clashes. Photo: AP
The new developments Mr Xi referred to are the emergence of democracy parties led by the young leaders of the umbrella movement, protesters who brought the city to a standstill for months in 2014, and subsequently saw three members elected to the Legislative Council.

The young democracy activists are calling for self determination and universal suffrage, but unlike the older generation of opposition politicians, they have questioned the validity of Hong Kong's Basic Law and constitution.

Mr Xi said: "Any attempt to endanger China's sovereignty and security, challenge the power of the Basic Law of the Hong Kong special administrative region or use Hong Kong to carry out infiltration and sabotage activities against the mainland is an act that crosses the red line, and is absolutely impermissible."

*Breaking News Alert*
Get the latest news and updates emailed straight to your inbox.

By submitting your email you are agreeing to Fairfax Media's  terms and conditions  and  privacy policy  .

The public was kept blocks away from the convention centre where Mr Xi oversaw the swearing in of Carrie Lam as the fifth Hong Kong chief executive. Mr Xi called on the new Hong Kong government to step up the patriotic education of young people, and raise public awareness of the history and culture of China.




Share on Facebook SHARE

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Carrie Lam, Hong Kong's chief executive-elect, center, walks past Zhang Xiaoming, director of the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in Hong Kong, second left. Photo: Bloomberg
A survey last month found only 3 per cent of young Hong Kongers identified as Chinese, compared with a third at the time of the handover. Previous attempts to introduce patriotic education in 2011 spawned school student protests.

The July 1 speech was tougher than speeches Mr Xi had given a day earlier to a business audience, where he had highlighted China's economic and technological success and the benefits it could bring to Hong Kong.Instead, he warned on Saturday that development was crucial for HongKong's survival in a competitive global economy and it "cannot afford to be torn apart by reckless moves or internal rifts."




Share on Facebook SHARE

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Chinese President Xi Jinping speaks after administering the oath for the Hong Kong's new Chief Executive Carrie Lam. Photo: AP
Mrs Lam said she would work to promote social cohesion and a better understanding of why young people were anxious. She said the problems wouldn't be solved overnight but she pledged to bring a new style of governance to restore social harmony.Hong Kong was a vibrant international metropolis that was just, safe and efficient, but it needed to diversify its economy to create quality jobs, especially for young people, she said.

Student protest leader Joshua Wong and five members of the pro-democracy group Demosisto were briefly arrested on Saturday morning when police saw they had arrived at the Golden Bauhinia statue, cordoned off to the public, before an official flag raising ceremony. They have been released and are expected to address a large protest gathering in the afternoon.





Hong Kong police officers try to remove a pro-China supporter, left in cap, after he attacked pro-democracy activists. Photo: AP


As Mr Xi's flight took off at 1pm, returning him to Beijing, Hong Kong residents poured out of subway stations to attend a noisy protest rally at Victoria Park. There was a heavy police presence at the authorised protest.

Several thousand protesters carrying umbrellas and banners set off from Victoria Park.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/xi-jinp...ng-not-to-cross-red-line-20170701-gx2miu.html


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## patman

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/880997783200649217
fresh out of twitter

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## Glass

hong kong looks awesome


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## Glass

nice city looks much more modern,cleaner then mainland

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## patman

video of one of the freedom fighter getting pulled away by the Chinese oppressors


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/880046646804926464

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## patman

*more videos of protest 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871380408495034368
*


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## patman




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## patman

*LIVE: Amnesty International's Mabel Au speaks to HKFP at July 1 march on this week's threats to freedom of speech*





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Glass

seems like situation is heating up


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## Glass




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## bbccdd1470

sinait said:


> You poor fellow, You are still STUCK in 1967.
> No wonder so much butt hurt from the loss to China in 1962 war.
> Don't Grief too much over the humiliation from 50+ years ago.
> Not good for you, little boy.
> Poor poor fellow.
> .


What you just quote from patman are simply not accurate, everyone who have been educated in HK know that 1967 riot are "skimmed over" since the colonial time, that was the sensitive information of the colonial government. Not to mention, "vanished archives" is funny since destroying sensitive information by the colonial government before 97 is an open secret in HK. Patman had been posting lots of pictures, and people who actually live in HK should recognize their face right away since they are small group of people that are infamous for against the government all the time. Lastly people should avoid feeding the troll, since they are only here to cause trouble.

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## patman

lllxi1998 said:


> seems like situation is heating up


their leader is a freeking teen man


*Joshua Wong, the student who risked the wrath of Beijing: ‘It’s about turning the impossible into the possible*






Cometh the hour, cometh the boy. Very much a boy: 17 and looking even younger behind his black-rimmed spectacles, with baggy shorts accentuating his skinniness and shaggy hair in need of a trim. Bright, well-mannered and slightly geeky, everyone’s son was about to become an international celebrity.

In September 2014, an unprecedented wave of civil disobedience swept Hong Kong, with tens of thousands of people pouring on to the streets to call for democratic reforms. The shock wasn’t just seeing riot police deployed in the heart of a city regarded as apolitical, money-focused and essentially conservative. It was the numbers and sheer youth of these peaceful demonstrators, umbrellas held aloft to ward off teargas and pepper spray, as they confronted – peacefully, tidily and very, very politely – the wrath of Beijing.

The Face of Protest, in the words of Time’s cover, was teenager Joshua Wong. Fortune named him one of the world’s greatest leaders. It was the detention of Wong and other student protesters – for storming into the blocked-off government complex – that first brought sizeable crowds to the streets of Central district, and the heavy-handed response of police that catalysed that extraordinary, exhilarating moment known as the umbrella movement. But when I tracked him down after his release he dodged personal questions and, indeed, most others. He didn’t like the idea of movements getting hung up on stars.

Two-and-a-half years on, the battle has shifted from the streets to the polling booths. Wong, now 20, has co-founded a new party, Demosisto, and is studying for a politics degree, although, he says: “Sometimes it feels as if I major in activism and minor in university.” Earlier this month he was in Washington, testifying before the cameras to US senator Marco Rubio’s congressional-executive commission on China. When I meet him, in London, he is promoting the modestly titled Netflix documentary Joshua: Teenager vs Superpower. “Being famous is part of my job,” he suggests in the film. He’s even smartened up, with shorn hair and a rather dapper jacket.




 Facebook   Twitter   Pinterest 
Police fire teargas at pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong in September 2014. Photograph: Bloomberg via Getty Images
“We’re working on it,” says his friend and fellow Demosisto founder Nathan Law, with a grin. He means the makeover, but portrays Wong’s profile as a collective, pragmatic decision too: “It is always a team play ... What we wanted to project through Joshua’s story is that as long as the city is undemocratic, and there’s underprivilege, and people’s interests are neglected, we will keep going.”





* Lose yourself in a great story: Sign up for the long read email *

Read more
Wong judges the documentary, which won a Sundance Audience award, “a good platform to get people internationally – especially people who watched the umbrella movement and have maybe forgotten it already – more interested in the situation. In 2014, of course, it wasn’t necessary to have much focus on myself ... It’s been really hard to maintain people’s interest.”

The upsurge of protest was, in a way, as surprising to Wong as anyone.

“At school, the teachers told us: Hong Kong people are economic animals, focused on investment and the stock market. There was a sense that business development was the most important thing,” he says.

He comes from a quiet, middle-class family, not especially political, although his parents are supportive and, because of their faith, encouraged him to take an interest in the city’s poor. “I’m a Christian and my motivation for joining activism is that I think we should be salt and light,” he says – the salt of the Earth and the light of the world – “but a lot of politicians in Hong Kong say they are guided by the Bible. I think it’s ridiculous: how can you say your judgment fully represents God?”

His moral seriousness helps to explain why, aged just 14, he co-founded a group called Scholarism to protest against national education, a “patriotic” curriculum that critics attacked as pro-Beijing brainwashing. The small bunch of schoolchildren sparked huge protests: Wong shot to local attention – and the government backed down. Then came the umbrella movement.

There are obvious parallels with youthful, social media-fuelled protests elsewhere, as the original name of Occupy Central suggests, but when I ask about his political inspirations, he dismisses the idea: “No. No,” he says at once.

Wariness probably plays a part; it would do them no favours to be seen as influenced by foreigners. But his explanation is pragmatic. There are things to be learned from other movements, he concedes – “strategy, dealing with pressure, dealing with people. But it’s hard to follow tactics because they’re a different generation and different circumstance. Martin Luther King and Gandhi emphasised civil disobedience; but in their context that was very different from Hong Kong in 2014.”




 Facebook   Twitter   Pinterest 
Wong (right) with Nathan Law. Photograph: Linda Nylind for the Guardian
Can young people fuming at Brexit or Donald Trump’s presidency learn anything from him?

“I’m not saying everyone should be Joshua Wong or follow my journey. But at least it proved that activism is not just related to experienced politicians or well-trained activists who have been working for NGOs; it can also be students and high-schoolers,” he says.

The comedown from his moment of glory was swift and harsh. The protests dragged on for 79 days, losing goodwill and producing no immediate result as the National Education protests had. Recriminations flew: the leaders were too radical; or not radical enough. Middle-aged Hong Kongers had voiced their shame that it took young people to spur them into protest. Now some began to see them as naive, almost accidental heroes.

More punishing was Beijing’s reaction. The trigger for the protests was electoral reform proposals; but the deeper impetus was pushing back against the rapid erosion of Hong Kong’s freedoms. When Britain handed the territory back to China in 1997, the countries agreed that its way of life would continue unchanged for 50 years, with Hong Kong retaining a high degree of autonomy under the “one country, two systems” framework. Then, 2047 seemed a long way off. China needed to protect Hong Kong’s stability for the sake of its own economy, and might itself liberalise. Beijing promised universal suffrage. Wong, born the year before handover, will be 51 when the deal ends – but in Washington this month, he suggested it was already “one country, one and a half systems”. “China has betrayed the joint declaration,” he says.

Hong Kong is now trapped in an irresolvable contradiction. Many residents are staunchly pro-Beijing; and for an even larger tranche, the priority is stability. But the young generation, in particular, increasingly see their identity as “Hong Kong” rather than “Chinese”; chafe at Beijing’s dictates; and are pushing back to reassert the region’s autonomy. Every such move intensifies Beijing’s fears and tightens its grip. Hong Kong’s institutions – the media, judiciary, universities – have come under ever greater pressure since the umbrella movement. Most chillingly, in 2015, five booksellers known for provocative works on China’s leaders vanished – only to resurface on the mainland, in custody, over book smuggling. And with each move by Beijing, the antagonism increases.




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Lam Wing-kee, one of the Hong Kong booksellers who was taken into custody in mainland China. Photograph: Vincent Yu/AP
In part, Wong’s fame always rested on its sheer implausibility, captured in the title of the documentary. But he is more than a symbol. He isn’t glamorous and is no dazzling orator. Yet he has a knack for saying just the right thing at the right time in a way that people relate to, and for seeing the broader picture: “One person, one vote is just the starting point for democracy. What I hope is that politics shouldn’t be dominated by the pro-Chinese elite; it should be related to everyone’s daily life,” he says.

His group has, on the whole astutely, weighed and responded to each political shift. They have not stopped working. And against the odds, they have notched up significant wins.

Last September, Law became Hong Kong’s youngest legislator at 23 (Wong was too young to stand). It proved they could do more than protest: these days, they talk about bus routes as well as democracy. It also proved that it was not just about Wong. But that victory, too, is in doubt: the government wants to disqualify Law and other young activist-legislators from straying from their oath of office. If the courts rule against him this month, he will not only lose his seat but go bankrupt, saddled with the government’s costs.

“As young activists the unique advantage is that we have less burden; we don’t need to worry so much about salary or managing the situation with families,” Wong says.

But the advantage is relative. The young activists have sharply curtailed their future career options. He and Law were convicted over their initial 2014 protest under unlawful assembly laws and there have been fresh arrests over the 2014 protests. Wong was detained for 12 hours while trying to enter Thailand, and he and Law have been attacked by pro-Beijing protesters.

“We expected that maybe in future we may be put in jail. But how it’s created a threat to daily life is not easy to handle,” he says. “If at 14 I could foresee my future and this kind of pressure – I think it would be hard for me [to commit to it].”

In the documentary, he admits to moments where he has wept and thought he couldn’t go on. But he insists he enjoys it too: “I think its valuable, even if sometimes it’s quite boring and exhausting. I’m working up to the second I go to sleep.”

Law says – with affection – that Wong is a robot, without a second life: “His growing-up time was in politics. All the thoughts in his mind, as a teenager, were about how to change society. He can’t drag himself away to private life.”

That sounds like fun for his girlfriend, I say. Wong looks embarrassed: “I met her in Scholarism. So she strongly supports this.” He still plays video games and goes to the movies, he says. But clearly not very often.




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Wong (centre) in Hong Kong in October 2014, as thousands of pro-democracy supporters occupied the streets surrounding the financial district. Photograph: Anthony Kwan/Getty Images
The truth is that they keep fighting, in part, because they are already down a path with very few exits: “If I continue with activism, maybe in 10 or 20 years it will be one country one system – and then I will have to leave Hong Kong. And I was born and live in Hong Kong and I really love Hong Kong,” he says.

“Since 2015, I’ve travelled to different places, and every time I just miss the food. The milk tea, the breakfast in the _cha chaan teng_ [a kind of cheap local restaurant]. I love those things. I don’t know why people love fish and chips. At all. No idea.”

He is really exercised now: “Visiting New York and DC – having lunch with think-tank leaders and just grabbing a sandwich and a Coke, without any rice or hot food – why they can accept these things every day for their lunch I just don’t know. I love Hong Kong very much.”

It’s the most expansive he has been, which isn’t as incongruous as it sounds. The fuel for the umbrella movement was never detached idealism, but a visceral attachment to a way of life that Hong Kong’s residents see fast disappearing, thanks to the flood of mainland wealth and the surge in migration as well as Beijing’s political grip.

Critics say the movement accelerated the cycle of clampdown and pushback with its rejection of electoral reform proposals. Beijing offered one person, one vote – but only if the slate of candidates for chief executive was under its control. That was pointless, said the activists; it offered no meaningful choice.

“In the long term, the erosion of Hong Kong autonomy is a given,” says Steve Tsang, the head of the Soas China Institute, who was raised in Hong Kong. “The game is how you slow down and minimise that. You don’t do it by going to war with Beijing – because you can’t win. They would rather destroy Hong Kong.”

China is the world’s second-largest economy; the region is no longer economically indispensable. But 30 years are left on the agreement’s clock, and, as Tsang says, a lot could change in China in that time. Saying yes to electoral reform would have given residents some say and encouraged Beijing to ease up.




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Demonstrators protest at Wong’s detention as he tried to enter Thailand last year. Photograph: Lam Yik Fei/Getty Images
The counter view is that without resistance there is little cost to Beijing’s encroachments, and that Hong Kong was sleep walking into a wholly different future. Suzanne Pepper, a long-time Hong Kong resident and researcher, says the original – much older – conveners of the civil disobedience wanted a wake-up call for Beijing. It was the students who turned it into a wake-up call for Hong Kong.

Now, as the cycle continues, ever more radical voices are emerging. Talk of independence in Hong Kong was once the preserve of an extreme fringe; last year, a survey found 17% of residents wanted it – rising to 40% among 15-to-24-year-olds – though more than 80% judged it impossible. Demosisto says it wants self-determination; and that, of course, is just as unacceptable to Beijing.

They are, as Law says, “walking on a high wire, careful of every step”. They have dodged obvious traps: being pushed into more extreme positions, or, equally, being distracted into battles within pro-democracy ranks. Wong admits that decisions become harder as their influence grows, but is strikingly confident in his own judgment: “I still have strong beliefs and know what’s the next step.”

There have been potential missteps; Pepper says Wong’s testimony to Rubio’s committee makes it easier for opponents to push the idea that he is the dupe of hostile foreign forces. A pro-Beijing paper has attacked him as a “race traitor”. But they need to keep international attention and, says Wong, “Hong Kong is a global and open city. It’s normal to reach out ... We hope the international community will keep its eyes on Hong Kong and support this movement.”

That looks particularly optimistic given the UK’s reluctance to challenge China in any but the most muted way over the erosion of promises in the joint declaration. Hong Kong’s former governor Chris Patten warned recently that Britain was “selling its honour”. Wong says he has been shocked by its silence at critical moments and is scathing overall: “It just focuses on trade deals.”

And that, perhaps, is the subtext of the new documentary’s title. It’s not so much investing Wong with superhero status as asking why a bunch of teenagers and twentysomethings have been willing to confront the might of China, at considerable cost, while governments are craven. That question becomes all the more important as the 20th anniversary of the handover approaches this summer. Xi Jinping is expected to make his first visit to the region as Chinese president to mark it: another potential flashpoint.

Beijing’s grip is continuing to tighten and the outlook for activists is, on any rational reading, grim. But Wong sees that as an admission of defeat before the struggle has even begun. “Don’t be afraid or scared for the future of Hong Kong,” he insists. “My starting point was founding Scholarism: at that moment, I couldn’t expect 100,000 people in the streets. I couldn’t imagine the umbrella movement when it began. I couldn’t imagine Demosisto. It’s always about turning things that are impossible into the possible. The enjoyable moment is creating the miracle.”


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## Glass

well if they dont like hong kong they can leave i guess o.o

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## patman

*Why we fight for Hong Kong’s freedoms*

june 29

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ngs-feedoms/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.81fdcd6e192e





_Martin Lee has worked for five decades as a barrister and advocate for Hong Kong and was founding chairman of the Democratic Party of Hong Kong.‎ Joshua Wong is the secretary general and co-founder of Demosisto, a political party in Hong Kong._

Xi Jinping is making his first visit to Hong Kong as president of China, to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the 1997 handover from Britain to China. The central government will insist on fireworks, but the world should know the darkening threats to freedom, the rule of law and free markets in Hong Kong.‎

We are two Hong Kong democracy advocates separated by six decades in age — one of us is 79, the other 20 — united in our conviction that democracy is essential to save Hong Kong’s way of life. We also believe that a democratic future for the territory is in China’s own national interest.





Get 1 year digital access for $99$79
Subscribe today
The basis for the transfer of Hong Kong’s sovereignty and people was established by the 1984 Joint Declaration, an international treaty registered at the United Nations. In that treaty, Hong Kong people were promised “one country, two systems,” with “Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong with a high degree of autonomy.” Our rights, freedoms, rule of law and way of life were supposed to continue for at least 50 years.

A central promise was that we Hong Kong people would in 10 years’ time progress toward elections based on universal suffrage. This arrangement protected free political speech in the city and kept alive hopes for genuine democracy that we were also denied under British rule.

Twenty years later, we are still waiting for the “two systems” to be implemented through genuine universal suffrage, without which we can never be masters of our own house.

The past several years have delivered an acceleration of worrying encroachments, including Beijing’s extrajudicial abductions of five publishers and a businessman from Hong Kong, threats to journalists and media freedom, the removal of elected legislators, a surge in arrests of student activists, and attacks on our independent judiciary. Our clean markets are increasingly tainted by crony corruption from China, and our government is effectively controlled by Beijing’s apparatchiks from the Central Liaison Office in Hong Kong.

The challenges we face were exemplified by the 2014 Umbrella Movement demonstrations, when tens of thousands took to the streets to demand greater democracy — a demand that remains unmet. Our fellow citizens often ask us, “Haven’t you failed?”

To be sure, our long fight hasn’t achieved our stated goals. But looking back at the 20 years since the 1997 handover, there are many reasons for optimism about the future, alongside the need for action to protect basic human rights.

Hong Kong journalists, lawyers, students, religious leaders, teachers, business executives and other citizens have resisted every encroachment by Beijing. We have fought to preserve our core values, including the rule of law, transparency, a free flow of information and free markets — the values that have long been a beacon for China and beyond.

Hong Kong has faced many crises. In the 1980s, our resilient citizens weathered the announcement that Hong Kong would be handed over to China. We mourned Tiananmen Square’s dashing of aspirations for democracy in 1989, and we raced against time to build and entrench Hong Kong’s own political institutions despite opposition from the British and now the Chinese.

For our young people, this long road to democracy in order to preserve the rights we were promised is a reminder that freedom is not free. It takes vigilance and persistence, a battle that sometimes extends across generations.

These young people understand very well what makes Hong Kong special and different from mainland China. They have a life ahead of them based on “two systems.” They don’t want to live in a Hong Kong that becomes ever more like China’s system of cronyism and corruption. They value academic freedom, press freedom and the ability to protest, speak, use social media and write freely.

This young generation has now seen 20 years of the older generation trying and failing to get Beijing to honor its promise of “two systems.” They have more reason than their parents and grandparents not to trust Beijing’s promises. They understand that the assurances of the Basic Law, our mini-constitution, have been broken. They don’t trust the present and won’t wait another 20 years.

Let us be clear: Hong Kong people are not challenging Beijing. We are merely insisting that China uphold its pledge to let us freely choose our leaders by universal suffrage and exercise the “high degree of autonomy” we were promised by China.

Above all, China needs to make sure that Hong Kong’s “two systems” survive in order to give the younger generation an incentive to stay and build on our success. Taiwan also continues to watch to see if Beijing’s word can be trusted.

As Xi spends time in Hong Kong, we hope he personally reverses the dangerous course of the past two decades and affirm that our freedoms and way of life are good for China, too. If Xi wants Hong Kong people to celebrate 20 years of Chinese rule, this is the moment to finally make good on Beijing’s promise of democracy and free and fair elections. ‎He should begin by understanding and trusting Hong Kong — and especially our young people.


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## JSCh

They organized these protest every year on 1st July.
Come tomorrow, everything back to normal again.
They also organized protest every year on 4th June for Tiananmen, but this year it is dead, only a few people.
Someday they will grow up, hopefully.

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## patman

XI got rekt


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## JSCh

Look at those wasted youth from HK.
But not to worry, China has hundred and hundred of millions of young man that are not wasting and doing actual real work.
They are the one that would carry China into a bright future.

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## JSCh

Ignore those dog and pony show.
This is the real one.
====================================
*Live: Hong Kong’s Victoria Harbour lights up with largest and most expensive fireworks display in 20 years*
_Crowd of 300,000 expected to watch 23-minute extravaganza costing HK$12 million_

PUBLISHED : Saturday, 01 July, 2017, 8:01pm
UPDATED : Saturday, 01 July, 2017, 8:01pm




Oliver Chou Hana Davis
1 Jul 2017
Hong Kong’s Victoria Harbour is witnessing its largest and most expensive fireworks display since 1997 – when the former British colony was returned to Chinese sovereignty – to mark the 20th anniversary of this handover and the inauguration of the city’s fourth chief executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor.

A total of 39,888 pyrotechnic shells from five barges will light up the sky during the 23-minute extravaganza, costing HK$12 million (US$1.5 million).

The highlight of the show is the “super fireworks wall” at 1,250 metres long and 300 metres tall that can be seen from both sides of the harbour.

A crowd of 300,000 is expected, regardless of the less than ideal weather. The Hong Kong Observatory issued a thunderstorm warning at 7.20pm.

The fireworks display has already sparked controversy over the decision to use of simplified Chinese characters for the words “China” at the beginning of the show, rather than traditional characters used in Hong Kong.

The Million Production and Promotion Company, which oversees part of the display arrangements, cited technical reasons to opt for the simplified character of the word “guo”, and pointed out the same character had been used for the 15th anniversary in 2012.

Nelson Liao Chi-kwan, a 63-year-old retiree, and his wife and granddaughter had lunch and dinner at a cafe in Wan Chai’s Great Eagle Centre.

“We are very early, but this way, we will be able to sit and watch the fireworks tonight. I want my granddaughter to witness this momentous occasion and remember it when she grows up. I don’t have strong feelings about all the politics, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime event for everyone.”

Seline Chan Mei-chiu, 25, a graduate student at the University of Hong Kong, has been sitting at the Wan Chai Ferry Pier since 12.30pm.

“My friends and I want to see the fireworks not just stand in a sweaty pool of bodies and see smoke. You see, there are already hundreds of people around me, if I had come any later I’d have to stand for the show.”


Live: Hong Kong’s Victoria Harbour lights up with largest and most expensive fireworks display in 20 years | South China Morning Post

Video is in the link.
Congrat to HK for 20th anniversary of returning to the motherland!!

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## rott

kavita said:


> It looks like all the students are on the roads, remember these students are the future of the country.


Youngsters remains to be hot blooded always. These very youngsters are the ones who breaks all traffic rules and drive recklessly. Once they grow up and can think for themselves what is right and wrong, they themselves will whack their own heads.

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## Jlaw

bbccdd1470 said:


> I'm kind of surprise that how few people are participating in 7/1 protest like other protests in the last few years, I believe that the Umbrella revolution has really woken many people up to realize the true intention behind the scene.


True story. My friend who work in HK was offered money to protest. He told me was like a 8 hour shift. If you worked night shift they pay more. That's why you see so many protesters taking selfies , sleeping and watching movies on their phone.

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## JSCh

*Annual July 1 pro-democracy march in Hong Kong draws lowest turnout since 2003: police*
_Force’s estimate of 14,500 participants at most is lowest since organiser took over event in 2003_

PUBLISHED : Saturday, 01 July, 2017, 3:21pm
UPDATED : Saturday, 01 July, 2017, 8:31pm




Ng Kang-chung Emily Tsang Rachel Blundy Julia Hollingsworth Elizabeth Cheung Jane Li Nikki Sun​
Organisers said 60,000 had taken part, but police estimated only 14,500 attended at the event’s peak. It was the lowest police estimate since the Civil Human Rights Front began organising the march in 2003.

Front convenor Au Nok-hin conceded that the turnout this year had been “lower that what we announced in the past few years”.

“But I appreciate those who took to the streets today as protesters nowadays are facing more risks than before, “ he said, adding that rain had affected turnout.

Au described the freedom of assembly in Hong Kong as being under threat, pointing to the detention of a dozen pro-democracy activists for staging a rally during the just-concluded three-day visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Bad weather was partly to blame for turnout not hitting the 100,000 predicted by organisers, who had to abort a planned public rally outside government headquarters at Tamar Park, the end of the route.

Rain-soaked marchers dispersed quickly after arriving, swamping the concourse of Admiralty MTR station. The last of the protesters reached Tamar at 7.10pm.

The 3km march started at Victoria Park in Causeway Bay.

Participants set off shortly after 3pm, two hours after Xi concluded his three-day visit to the city.


_Con't -> _Annual July 1 pro-democracy march in Hong Kong draws lowest turnout since 2003: police | South China Morning Post

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## JSCh



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## Zyzz

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

amount of people who are actually fighting for democracy here in Hong Kong = 5%
the rest you see are bored people who decided to chime in, I know this because i was born and raised here.
nothing exciting ever happens here, it's a boring dull life here and when protests took off, the entire Hong Kong people joined just to feel refreshed as it was new and exciting for most of us, many of the people living here don't care about democracy, the only thing that matters to them is that they have a job and a home, especially a home and Hong Kongers are Han Chinese themselves so your entire argument is invalid.

Today was July 1st, No one was going crazy, Fireworks were spectacular in fact they are by far the most expensive fireworks Hong Kong has ever done.
Democracy doesn't always work, Communism is working so it will stay, Let's look at nepal, who dropped monarchy and decided to take Democracy all of a sudden, they don't look too good.
Communism took China to new heights, it's the reason why they're a powerful country today and don't bend over in front of the europeans or the nearby japanese anymore.
They're called the big brother because communism succeeded in China.

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## patman

* Britain is looking away as China tramples on the freedom of Hong Kong – and my father *
Angela Gui

I am too young to remember the handover of Hong Kong to China in 1997 and its promise for the new world I would live in. But I have lived to see that promise trampled. 

The Sino-British Joint Declaration, signed to pave the way for the handover, was supposed to protect the people of Hong Kong from Chinese interference in their society and markets until 2047. Yet as the handover’s 20th anniversary approaches, China muscles in where it promised to tread lightly while Britain avoids eye contact.





* Gui Minhai: the strange disappearance of a publisher who riled China's elite *
Read more
As Xi Jinping has consolidated his grip on Chinese politics since he took office in 2013, Beijing has increasingly ignored the principle of “one country, two systems” on which the handover was based and actively eroded the freedoms this was supposed to guarantee. 

In October 2015, my father Gui Minhai and his four colleagues were targeted and abducted by the agents of the Chinese Communist party for their work as booksellers and publishers. My father – a Swedish citizen – was taken while on holiday in Thailand, in the same place we’d spent Christmas together the year before. He was last seen getting into a car with a Mandarin-speaking man who had waited for him outside his holiday apartment. Next, his friend and colleague Lee Bo was abducted from the Hong Kong warehouse of Causeway Bay Books, which they ran together. Lee Bo is legally British and, like any Hong Konger, his freedom of expression should have been protected by the terms of 1997.

Their only “crime” had been to publish and sell books that were critical of the central Chinese government. So paranoid is Beijing about its public image, that it chooses to carry out cross-border kidnappings over some books. Causeway Bay Books specialised in publications that were banned on the mainland but legal in Hong Kong. The store’s manager, Lam Wing-kee, who was taken when travelling to Shenzhen, has described Causeway Bay Books “a symbol of resistance”. In spite of Hong Kong’s legal freedoms of speech and of the press the store is now closed because all its people have been abducted or bullied away. Other Hong Kong booksellers are picking “politically sensitive” titles off their shelves in the fear that they may be next; the next brief headline, the next gap in a family like my own.

I continue to live with my father’s absence – his image, messages from his friends, the cause he has become. Turning 53 this year, he spent a second birthday in a Chinese prison. Soon he will have spent two years in detention without access to a lawyer, Swedish consular officials, or regular contact with his family.


24:19
Chalk Girl: the protester at the heart of Hong Kong’s democracy movement
My father’s case is only one of many that illustrate the death of the rule of law in Hong Kong. Earlier this year, Canadian businessman Xiao Jianhua – who had connections to the Chinese political elite – disappeared from a Hong Kong hotel and later resurfaced on the mainland. In last year’s legislative council elections, six candidates were barred from running because of their political stance. The two pro-independence candidates who did end up getting elected were prevented from taking office. If “intolerable political stance” is now a valid excuse for barring LegCo candidates, then it won’t be long before the entire Hong Kong government is reduced to a miniature version of China’s.

The Joint Declaration was meant to guarantee that no Hong Kong resident would have to fear a “midnight knock on the door”. The reality at present is that what happened to my father can happen to any Hong Kong resident the mainland authorities wish to silence or bring before their own system of “justice”. Twenty-one years ago, John Major pledged that Britain would continue to defend the freedoms granted to Hong Kong by the Joint Declaration against its autocratic neighbour. Today, instead of holding China to its agreement, Britain glances down at its shoes and mumbles about the importance of trade. It is as if the British government wants to forget all about the promise it made to the people of Hong Kong. But China’s crackdown on dissent has made it difficult for Hong Kongers to forget.

Theresa May often emphasises the importance of British values in her speeches. But Britain’s limpness over Hong Kong seems to demonstrate only how easily these values are compromised away. I worry about the global implications of China being allowed to just walk away from such an important treaty. And I worry that in the years to come, we will have many more Lee Bos and Gui Minhais, kidnapped and detained because their work facilitated free speech. Hong Kong’s last governor, Lord Patten, has repeatedly argued that human rights issues can be pushed without bad effects on trade. Germany, for example, has shown that this is entirely possible, with Angela Merkel often publicly criticising China’s human rights record. With a potentially hard Brexit around the bend, a much reduced Britain will need a world governed by the rule of law. How the government handles its responsibilities to Hong Kong will be decisive in shaping the international character of the country that a stand-alone Britain will become. I for one hope it will be a country that honours its commitments and that stands up to defend human rights.

_\_


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## hit&run&hitagain

*Protests as new Hong Kong leader sworn in*

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## Godman

patman said:


>



HK has a population of over 7 Million, a few thousand protestors is relatively low


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## Kinetic

patman said:


> Lol now the chinaman says Hong Kong uprisings is a indian conspiracy.
> 
> These must be one hell of a photo shop




We are with you HK.


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## lastone

Protesters targeted Hong Kong's Golden Bauhinia Square, a symbol of the city's handover to Chinese rule, on Monday, June 26, 2017.
*Story highlights*

Police have reportedly been told to crack down on certain protest slogans and imagery
They're hoping not to embarrass Chinese President Xi Jinping while he's in Hong Kong

Hong Kong (CNN)When Hong Kong was handed over to China in 1997 after more than 150 years of British rule, the Bauhinia flower was chosen as the symbol of the new Chinese special administrative region.

A giant golden statue was gifted to the city by Beijing and erected at Golden Bauhinia Square, which is now used for official flag-raising ceremonies.
After Chinese state media published a photo of Xi carrying an umbrella on a site inspection in Wuhan province at the height of the Hong Kong demonstrations, the image was quickly remixed and adopted by the umbrella protesters.
*Tiananmen Square*





Pro-democracy activits march to mark the 25th anniversary of Tiananmen Square massacre, on June 1, 2014 in Hong Kong.
On June 4, 1989, the People's Liberation Army sent tanks and troops into Tiananmen Square to clear pro-democracy protesters who had been occupying the site at the heart of Beijing for weeks. Hundreds were killed in the crackdown, and thousands more arrested. Hong Kong is the only place on Chinese soil which holds a major public commemoration of the event.
"The June 4 incident" remains one of the most censored topics in China, with all references to the massacre, no matter how oblique, banned or deleted. That means no social media posts around the anniversary using the words "Tiananmen," "June," "today," "student movement," "tank man," or "square," and no use of the numbers 4, 6, 8, 9 or any combination that adds up to 64 or 89, or even "May 35."
In 2013, even ducks were banned, after a giant yellow duck art installation was adopted as a way to bypass the censors.
*'I want true universal suffrage'*





A banner with the Chinese characters "I want true universal suffrage" placed on the windscreen of a car carrying Hong Kong leader CY Leung.
A key demand of the 2014 protests -- which were sparked after Beijing refused allow Hong Kongers to elect their own leader without China choosing the shortlist -- "I want true universal suffrage" ("ngo jiu zan pou syun" in Cantonese) has become a key rallying cry for pro-democracy activists in the city.
The slogan has been emblazoned on posters, written on walls, beamed onto the sides of buildings, and hung from Hong Kong's iconic Lion Rock mountain, which overlooks the city.
*Protest songs*





Protestors hold up their cellphones in a display of solidarity during a protest outside the headquarters of Legislative Council in Hong Kong on September 29, 2014.
While police may be able to prevent Xi from seeing anything that displeases him, drowning out the many Hong Kong protest songs might be a more difficult task.
"Boundless oceans, vast skies," a barnstorming ballad released in 1993 by the Hong Kong rock band Beyond has long been the unofficial anthem of the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement due to its lyrics about freedom and hope written by front man Wong Ka-kui, who died in a freak accident shortly after its release.
While "Do you hear the people sing?" -- a defiant call for solidarity and resistance from the musical Les Miserables -- has been sung by protest movements around the world for years, it's popularity increased after 2014, thanks to the release of a Cantonese language cover.
As tens of thousands of Hong Kongers gathered in the streets in 2014, many felt they needed their own anthem -- rather than borrowing those of previous movements -- and several specially-written songs were released. "Raise the umbrella," written by Lo Hiu-pan hours after police fired tear gas at peaceful protesters, quickly became the most popular, featuring vocals from local popstars Denise Ho and Anthony Wong.

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## hit&run&hitagain

Two protesting Girls being mobbed by Police.

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## Chinese-Dragon

grey boy 2 said:


> @Chinese-Dragon brother, please come to check on some crazy Indian trolls are having a HK bashing party here while no moderators are around, thankyou



If I start reading this thread I'm going to start having to hand out negative ratings all over, including to Chinese members which I would rather not do.

Best thing to do is to let the thread die, and wait for the moderators to clean it up.

The irony is that the pro-democracy crowd in Hong Kong actually hate India, because India gives democracy the worst possible name.

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## bbccdd1470

Jlaw said:


> True story. My friend who work in HK was offered money to protest. He told me was like a 8 hour shift. If you worked night shift they pay more. That's why you see so many protesters taking selfies , sleeping and watching movies on their phone.


That was one of the rumours that is considered true by many HK people, the fact was at that time we also had snapshot proofs from facebook and whatsapp about them talking about price. Not to mention, a large amount of foods and drinks sent to those occupied areas every morning by a large trunk, where even news reporter got threaten by occupiers when they tried to take picture. Also other stuffs like building materials such as bamboo and concrete that build fences and camping equipment came from nowhere. We also have concrete evidences that our Legco councillors, University professors and organizers of the umbrella revolution in some way connected to the foreign faction before or during the occupation.

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## lastone

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/26/asia/hong-kong-handover-exit/index.html
*Hong Kongers look for an exit 20 years after handover to China*
By Katie Hunt, CNN

Updated 0025 GMT (0825 HKT) June 27, 2017





Hong Kong (CNN)Terence Tam's dad fled to Hong Kong from China during the political chaos of the Cultural Revolution to make a better life for himself and his family.

Then a British colony, the city became home to a huge number of refugees fleeing Communism in the 1960s and 1970s.
Now 39, Tam says he's ready to make another escape, 20 years after the UK handed sovereignty over the city to China.
While Hong Kong is one of the most affluent cities in the world, he says it's now in the throes of its own political upheaval.
"I want to see if I can do the same for my family (as my father did for us)," he says. "I'm not satisfied with the situation in Hong Kong. The political situation, the government. We have so many complaints."


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## Tauren Paladin

Hong Kong is an autonomous region of China. There's nothing any country can do, the world recognizes it as a legal binding city in China. If it wasn't, Hong Kong wouldn't have China after the comma.


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## StraightShooter

*Thousands march in Hong Kong to show dissent for Chinese rule*
Rally by pro-democracy groups on 20th anniversary of city’s handover to Chinese rule follows Xi Jinping’s visit and labelling of any challenge to it as ‘a red line’






Pro-democracy protester Leung Kwok-hung joins a march in Hong Kong on Saturday. He was later taken away by police. Photograph: Isaac Lawrence/AFP/Getty Images


Tom Phillips and Benjamin Haas in Hong Kong

Saturday 1 July 2017 11.37 BSTFirst published on Saturday 1 July 2017 05.19 BST

Tens of thousands of pro-democracy protesters have marched across Hong Kongto mark the 20th anniversary of its return to Chinese control with a high-profile show of dissent.

China’s president Xi Jinping, who had been in the former British colony on a three-day tour, flew out of Hong Kong just hours before the annual protest kicked off in Victoria Park on Saturday afternoon.

But organisers said they remained determined to let Hong Kong’s political masters in Beijing know how they felt after two decades of Chinese rule. 

“We know he has gone back to Beijing but we still want to show that they cannot ignore our voice,” said Howard Cheng, 28, one of the leaders of the group that organises the rally, the Civil Human Rights Front (CHRF). “He came to Hong Kong but he didn’t want to hear the real voice of the Hong Kong people.”

Cheng accused Beijing of offering “fake democracy” to Hong Kong’s 7.3 million residents. “We are here to fight for democracy and universal suffrage.”

Organisers said more than 60,000 people joined the 3km march, which has been held nearly every year since Hong Kong returned to China in 1997.

Saturday’s rally, which will be followed by a massive pro-Beijing firework display celebrating the anniversary, kicked off at about 3.30pm local time.

A column of protestors surged westwards from the park towards Hong Kong’s financial centre, carrying flags, banners and yellow umbrellas – the symbol of 2014’s mass protests – stamped with the words: “Power to the people”.

Many demonstrators carried messages of dissent on black and white T-shirts emblazoned with slogans such as: “Never back down”, “fight for Hong Kong,” and, more poetically, “being born in uncertain times carries certain responsibilities”.

The protesters and their leaders said they hoped to use the anniversary of Britain’s departure to voice their disgust at Beijing’s refusal to grant them genuine democracy and its alleged erosion of their autonomy and freedoms.

A series of political scandals – including the abduction of a group of local booksellers by mainland agents – have left many convinced that Beijing is preparing to take a harder line with those who question its rule over the former colony.

“We are here to tell the truth that the 20th anniversary of handover is nothing to celebrate. We still don’t have democracy. We are here to tell the world that,” Nathan Law, a local pro-democracy legislator who was among those leading the rally, told the Guardian.

Eddie Chu, a 39-year-old environmentalist and pro-democracy politician, said the rally was “the most important chance to show the power of the people”. “My message is: give us the power that we deserve,” he said.

Michelle Wang, a 58-year-old protester, had come armed with a homemade placard that read: “July 1 is no celebration”.

“One country, two systems: what a lie!” she fumed, referring to the system under which Hong Kong returned to China’s control, but with far greater freedoms than the authoritarian mainland.

“I was born in Hong Kong. I see everything changing,” Wang went on. “Year after year things are happening. We don’t want to see so much influence from mainland China. We do not have universal suffrage. Maybe we will never have it. That’s why we are so angry.”

Jaco Chow, an activist from the New School for Democracy group, said that unlike many of the marchers, the Communist party was not his main focus. 

“The biggest problem is always the capitalists,” the 33-year-old said. “The Chinese Communist party is another serious problem of course. But capitalists are the real problem.”

As the crowds surged past, through Hong Kong’s Wan Chai neighbourhood, Chow declared himself a proud Corbynista. “He’s cool. I hope Hong Kong can have a political icon like Jeremy Corbyn one day. [He’s] hardcore. An old school leftist. This is what we need.”

Jason Leung a 16-year-old protestor, was marching with a poster carrying a rather different message. “Don’t walk and smoke at the same time,” it read.

“I think it is very selfish,” explained the teenager, who was at his first rally and said he had come because he wanted to experience first-hand Hong Kong’s vibrant democracy movement.

“I have no bad feelings [about China],” Leung said when asked to describe his politics. “But sometimes I hate to see the China flag on buildings. Hong Kong is not China.”




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Chinese president Xi Jinping and Hong Kong’s new chief executive Carrie Lam leave after her swearing-in ceremony. Photograph: Kin Cheung/AP
Xi Jinping was hundreds of kilometres away by the time Saturday’s protest began but he left demonstrators a clear message before his departure.

He said in an address before the protests began that Hong Kong must not be used as a launchpad to challenge Beijing’s authority and any questioning of China’s sovereignty in the territory “crosses a red line”.

Xi also said Hong Kong needed to do more to protect China’s national security and implement patriotic education programmes. Both of these issues remain deeply unpopular among city residents and previous government attempts to enact security legislation and national education sparked mass protests.

His remarks were a clear warning to increasingly vocal political factions calling for greater autonomy from China or even outright independence.

“Any attempt to endanger China’s sovereignty and security, challenge the power of the central government and Hong Kong’s Basic Law, or use Hong Kong to carry out infiltration and sabotage activities against the mainland is an act that crosses a red line,” he said. “It is absolutely impermissible.”

Little more than an hour before Xi’s speech, democracy protesters were attacked by pro-China demonstrators and hauled away by police as they attempted to march on the daily flag-raising ceremony.

Avery Ng, the chairman of the League of Social Democrats, said activists had suffered “a whole new level of intimidation and direct violence” during Xi’s visit, designed to shield the Communist party leader from dissenting voices. “I urge the people of Hong Kong: do not give up ... Once we give up then we will for certain slowly deteriorate into what is becoming of China today,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/01/hong-kong-xi-jinping-china-power-protests


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## patman

Two said:


> They are also the people in Hongkong



this is hong kong today
















most/all of them want freedom

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## StraightShooter

*Chris Patten: Did Beijing Betray Hong Kong?*


By CHRIS PATTENJUNE 30, 2017

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Soldiers participate in a military parade as part of the Hong Kong handover ceremonies on June 30, 1997.CreditRomeo Gacad/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
LONDON — Can China be trusted?

In 1992-97, the last years that Hong Kong was a British colony, I was its governor. I endured round after round of difficult negotiations with the Chinese Communist Party in Beijing, over the protection of human rights and the development of the first stages of democracy in Hong Kong.

People often said to me, “At least once Beijing leaders reach an agreement, they stick to it.” I thought then that this view was probably based on faith rather than fact. And so it has clearly proved.

Hong Kong was never like Britain’s other colonies. Acquired after one of many Western interventions in China during the 19th century — which still understandably rankle the Chinese — the territory was picked up on a 99-year lease. The fact that the British did not take it in perpetuity was an attempt to help the enfeebled Qing dynasty save face.

After World War II, Britain’s other colonies were given independence and set — or so it was hoped, though with decreasing confidence — on the road to democracy. This was not always done with good grace, but by and large, Britain withdrew from empire without too much bloodshed or turbulence.

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Continue reading the main story

Soon, the only territory Britain still held was the trading outpost of Hong Kong, a successful free economy with a vibrant civil society and the rule of law — and a haven for people fleeing impoverishment and repression on mainland China after the communists came to power in 1949.

But Hong Kong lacked democracy. In the 1940s and ’50s, there were anxieties in both Britain’s Foreign Office and Hong Kong’s local administration. People were understandably worried that political arguments in Hong Kong would be dragged into the struggle between the communists and the Kuomintang on the mainland and in Taiwan.

China’s communist leaders warned Britain against passing democratic reforms in Hong Kong: It was anathema to encourage locals to think that they might be destined for an independent future as a nation state like Singapore.

Photo




Chris Patten in Hong Kong on June 21, 1997, the week before the official handover.CreditThe Asahi Shimbun, via Getty Images
The business community in Hong Kong also convinced British colonial authorities that the locals were not interested in politics; they just wanted to get on with business. I suppose it feared that elections might produce administrations keen on income redistribution.

So we British educated young Hong Kongers in their universities, encouraging them to read books about democracy and pluralism while telling them that these things were not for them.

As 1997 — the year Britain’s lease over the territory would run out — came over the horizon, the British and Chinese governments began discussing the terms under which Britain should hand sovereignty over Hong Kong back to Beijing.

In the early 1980s, China’s paramount leader, Deng Xiaoping, produced the “one country, two systems” formula: Hong Kong would return to the motherland but retain its autonomy and way of life. This position was then turned into a binding treaty between China and Britain, the Joint Declaration. The deal underlined the importance of beginning Hong Kong’s democratization.

When I arrived as governor in 1992, the pass had been largely sold on the pace of democracy. Limited changes were spelled out in the Basic Law, Hong Kong’s mini-constitution, which had been adopted in 1990.

I tried to make the proposed electoral arrangements as fair and free as possible, for example by considerably extending, not the number of directly elected legislators, but the size of the electorate that could vote for them. Yet so far as the election of the chief executive, Hong Kong’s top position, was concerned, Beijing insisted on vetting all candidates for the post. A committee, largely of people handpicked by China, would then select a winner among them.

The last colonial government put in place as many defenses as possible to protect Hong Kong’s independent judiciary, the rule of law, human rights, freedom of speech and civil society. We passed legislation to protect Hong Kong’s pluralist society, in addition to very limited measures to make the city more democratic. This was pretty modest stuff. But it was enough to bring down on my head a torrent of abuse from Chinese Communist Party officials.

Back then, my greatest worry about Hong Kong’s prospects after 1997 was that it would simply become the richest city in China. I never feared that the Chinese Army would march in and run things itself.

Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, the Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world.

Thanks to the people of Hong Kong — not least its young citizens — this has not happened. There is a real sense there of what Hong Kong’s citizenship means and of the interconnections between the rule of law, pluralism and prosperity.

At the same time, I have always thought it was extremely unwise to allow this feeling to morph into a campaign for independence. It would dilute support for democratic development in Hong Kong. And it would play into the hands of Beijing hard-liners.

Beijing, on the other hand, has never really understood Hong Kong’s way of life. It talks a lot about “one country, two systems,” without making much effort to understand Hong Kong’s system.

For a time after the handover, the worst that Beijing did was to push back against the very limited progress that had been made toward democracy. Instead of allowing people in Hong Kong to decide the arrangements for their elections — something which had been promised — the Chinese communists started taking the process into their own hands.

The government of President Xi Jinping of China has gone much further in recent years. Beijing’s office in Hong Kong interferes more and more with the administration of Hong Kong, which is supposed to be handled autonomously by locals.

There have been attacks on the independent judiciary and the rule of law. Beijing intervened in a court case against legislators-elect who advocate independence for Hong Kong. Local publishers who produced books critical of the Chinese leadership and a billionaire who seemed to know too much about corruption within the Chinese Communist Party were abducted. Universities and the media in Hong Kong have come under pressure from China supporters.

President Xi is in Hong Kong this weekend to swear in its new chief executive, Carrie Lam, a former government official, who was elected by just a few hundred local citizens. She is best known for refusing to have any dialogue with the pro-democracy protesters of the Umbrella Movement in 2014, while she was the No. 2 in the Hong Kong government.

Hong Kong is a small place, but its fate will loom large over the 21st century. For what happens there will answer the question: Can China be trusted?

Chris Patten, the last governor of Hong Kong, is the Chancellor of Oxford University.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/opinion/chris-patten-hong-kong-handover-china-xi-jinping.html


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## StraightShooter

*Art and punchbags in Hong Kong at colourful post-Xi protest*
By AFP

PUBLISHED: 07:40 EDT, 1 July 2017 | UPDATED: 07:40 EDT, 1 July 2017







+3
A cardboard cut-out of China's President Xi Jinping holding a yellow umbrella, a symbol of the 2014 'Umbrella Movement' is carried during a protest in Hong Kong on July 1 -- the 20th anniversary of the city's handover from British to Chinese rule

Tens of thousands of pro-democracy protesters marched through summer rain brandishing colourful art and props in Hong Kong Saturday, expressing their fears the city and its freedoms are being eaten up by China.

The march came hours after President Xi Jinping flew out after a three-day trip to mark 20 years since Hong Kong was handed back to China by Britain.

There were sporadic arrests and scuffles during his landmark stay but protesters were given little space to make their voices heard in the midst of an unprecedented security lockdown.

On Saturday afternoon, they were free to express themselves once more as they marched through central Hong Kong from Victoria Park to government offices.

One protester carried a cardboard cutout of Xi holding a yellow umbrella -- symbol of the 2014 pro-democracy Umbrella Movement which brought parts of the city to a standstill.






+3
People attend a protest march in Hong Kong on July 1, 2017, coinciding with the 20th anniversary of the city's handover from British to Chinese rule

Others waved pro-independence and colonial British flags, which have become an anti-China emblem.

Rows of punch bags were mounted with the head of Hong Kong's unpopular ex-leader Leung Chun-ying, who was replaced by incoming chief executive Carrie Lam Saturday.

Some protesters carried a cardboard model of a toilet picturing Leung's face on the lid and Lam's face in the bowl, covered with excrement.

"It's not straightforward to get what we want by just protesting, especially from this heartless government," said teacher Charlton Cheung, in his 40s.

"But we need to persist to show our fellow citizens we have a shared vision. Maybe one day we will be in big enough numbers that the government can't ignore," he added.

Hong Kong bookseller Lam Wing-kee, one of five publishers of salacious titles about Beijing leaders who went missing in 2015 and resurfaced in detention on the mainland, joined the rally.

Lam has been in Hong Kong since ducking bail last year and revealing how he had been seized, blindfolded and detained for eight months without a lawyer.

The booksellers' case tapped into deep seated fears over how far China is reaching into Hong Kong and curbing freedoms.






+3
A banner which reads 'Democracy' is carried during a protest march in Hong Kong on July 1, 2017, coinciding with the 20th anniversary of the city's handover from British to Chinese rule

"We are seeing the power of the police getting bigger, while the rights of the people are only getting smaller," legislator and activist Nathan Law told AFP.

A prominent theme in this year's march was the call for the release of cancer-stricken Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo, who was given medical parole earlier this week but is still on the mainland.

Social worker Ceci Chan, in her 30s, said life was "difficult" for Hong Kongers and that Xi should not have hidden behind security barricades if he wanted to connect with residents.

"Hong Kong is a very great city. It's not good for anyone for it to just become any Chinese city," she said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/af...bags-Hong-Kong-colourful-post-Xi-protest.html


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## StraightShooter




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## StraightShooter



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## Mista

Look what the thread has become.


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## yantong1980

Guys, please don't feed wild Indian trolls here, I don't know the reason they messing around like 6 yrs spoiled kid here. Mods not here, so leave them with their 'freedom magic' logic, just ignored them. These young HK 'freedom' lover 'ask' to let HK under British flag, whiles screaming for independence? I wonder how they got independence while live under foreign rules as vassal? Then they screaming loud being pro-imperialism, being pro-colonialism under pretext of freedom? Asking away from one ruler to another ruler nothing changes. They also weaving gay flag...who benefited from this all? MSM and West gov't....Well if this young spoiled hot-blooded HK kid love UK so much why don't they leave HK go to met their 'master' in UK, washing their car, polish their shoes because THAT's their democracy. Freedom? They got their protest, to express their traitor opinion, while Xi there. Common people need to feed and support their family, not false flag green banana politicking.

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## Sasquatch

Multiple trolls have been given extended vacations, also those who were baited and fed them received the same. Word of advice to all members don't reply to low quality trolling just report and move on.

I will reopen this thread soon once this mess is removed.

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## Mista

The rebut from China's foreign ministry that the agreement with the British is historical and has no significance, is silly really. Even the Chinese netizens in Weibo are criticizing it.


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## Jlaw

Mista said:


> The rebut from China's foreign ministry that the agreement with the British is historical and has no significance, is silly really. Even the Chinese netizens in Weibo are criticizing it.


Chinese netizens cannot do much. CPC may not be the right fit for a more confidence 21st century Chinese populace

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## Mista

Jlaw said:


> Chinese netizens cannot do much. CPC may not be the right fit for a more confidence 21st century Chinese populace



What do you mean?


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## Shotgunner51

*One delegation, two systems: Hong Kong and China team heads to Maccabiah Games in Israel*
A total of 30 athletes in three age categories take part in the ‘Jewish Olympics’, which sees 10,000 participants from 85 countries competing across 41 sports
 
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 05 July, 2017, 12:02pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 05 July, 2017, 12:02pm






The junior athletes representing Hong Kong in Israel. Photos: Handout

It might not be the divided nations of North and South Korea marching together at next year’s Winter Olympics, but this month’s 20th Maccabiah Games will see Jewish athletes from Hong Kong and China compete as “one delegation, two systems”.

A total of 30 expatriate athletes from the Hong Kong, Macau and China chapter of the Maccabi World Union have headed to Israel this week to take part in the event dubbed the “Jewish Olympics”, which sees more than 10,000 participants from around 85 countries competing across 41 different sports every four years.

The event, which runs from July 4-18, ranks behind only the Olympics and University Games in terms of participation, although the Hong Kong and China delegation is amongst the smallest with the US sending around 1,200 athletes, and Canada, Australia and Argentina at around 650 competitors as well as 2,500 from Israel.






Hong Kong’s junior futsal team in Israel.

The Hong Kong and China delegation, which is largely representing Hong Kong’s Jewish community of around 5,000 for the fourth time at the Games, includes athletes in the junior, open and masters age categories competing in futsal, athletics, swimming, squash, tennis and chess.

_“You have real Olympians going, to age-group athletes who are in it for fun, and our delegation this year is more age-group athletes in it for fun,” _said head of delegation Steve Lyons, who is competing in the open futsal team, while his son and daughter are also in action.​
_“We have some medal chances, we have some quality athletes going, but our expectations are that we won’t do as well as last time as the bar was set pretty high."_​



_“There are three reasons why people are generally going: the love of Israel; being passionate about sports as everyone who is going is an athlete; and also pride in the Jewish community in Hong Kong."_​
_“We are one delegation; one delegation, two systems.”_​
In 2013, Hong Kong’s 17 athletes won 10 medals, largely down to the efforts of swimmers Ana Scherer and Aaron Zweig.





Aaron Zweig shows off his bronze medal in 2013.

The delegation has required significant local sponsorship to fund the trip, with athletes required to pay the entry fee, which is around US$4,000 for junior athletes who are staying in the village, plus airfares themselves.

_“For about a week to 10 days you feel like a professional athlete as it really feels like a top-level sporting event. It is a fantastic opportunity to meet athletes from around the world. The standard in some of the sports is absolutely incredible,”_ said 48-year-old lawyer Jason Webber, who featured on the masters futsal team in 2013, and returns this year as part of the open squad.​
_“The main reason for me is to represent my country Hong Kong. I have lived in Hong Kong for approximately for 25 years, so it is a tremendous honour to be part of the Hong Kong delegation and represent my country."_​
_“It is all about the participation. Whether you come back with a medal or you don’t, it is all about the participation and the fun and the joining brotherhood of people from around the world in a sportsman-like way.”_​
Rafael Aharoni, the chairman of the Hong Kong, Macau and China chapter of the Maccabi World Union, will carry the Hong Kong flag at Jerusalem’s 32,000-seat Teddy Stadium on Thursday alongside the China flag, which will be carried by one of the eight members of the mainland group.

The delegation will also meet China’s ambassador in Israel, Zhan Yongxin, during the trip.

http://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong...tems-hong-kong-and-china-team-heads-maccabiah


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## Dai Toruko

20 years after the reunification of Hong Kong with mainland China there remains a distinct cultural difference between the two. They have a separate language, cuisine and schooling system. China hoped that the reunification process would be relatively seamless, however attempts to change the curriculum and spread Mandarin have backfired. Is the city's distinct identity under threat?


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## bbccdd1470

Dai Toruko said:


> 20 years after the reunification of Hong Kong with mainland China there remains a distinct cultural difference between the two. They have a separate language, cuisine and schooling system. China hoped that the reunification process would be relatively seamless, however attempts to change the curriculum and spread Mandarin have backfired. Is the city's distinct identity under threat?


Before that I didn't watch the video and only come to reply your comment. First at all is don't always trust 100% what the media tell you. The fact is we speak Cantonese in HK and Cantonesse is one of local dialect in China, which originate from Guangdong, one of the provinces from *China*. Beside that, we share the same writing system which make us can read and write perfectly to each other. More precisely to say, Cantonese is more like a local dialect than a separate language as you claimed.
Other than that China have eight great regional cuisines that due to geographical reason and regional climate, it is more like you eat what you get. And HK cuisine is part of the eight regional cuisines. A distinct cultural difference is a lie made by the western media, since how could we be distinct different when we are writing the same language, celebrating the same festivals, believing the same traditional values (Confucianism), eating the same foods and sharing the same history.
Lastly, learning Mandarin is like learning English that makes you communicate better with other people and increases your competitiveness in future career path. Not to mention, enormous of the economic and social exchanges between Mainland China and HK today. Learning Mandarin is a good thing.

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## JSCh

*The growing popularity of learning Mandarin in Hong Kong *

By Guo Meiping
2017-07-02 08:32 GMT+8

Language has always been an issue for tourists traveling to Hong Kong from mainland China. But it’s gradually becoming less of a problem as Putonghua, or Mandarin, has become more prevalent in this Cantonese-speaking region in recent years.

Many schools in Hong Kong are pushing forward trilingual education programs, including English, Cantonese and Mandarin.

20 years ago, Kiangsu-Chekiang Primary School was the only school that offered all of its courses in Mandarin. Principal Wong Po-ming said before the return of Hong Kong to China, their Mandarin education policy encountered lots of difficulties in Hong Kong.



Kiangsu-Chekiang Primay School. /CGTN Photo

Wang Wanhui came to Hong Kong from the mainland 27 years ago to teach standard Mandarin. She said back then everything was different.

"When I came to Hong Kong in 1990, only a few people here spoke Putonghua, and speaking Putonghua would make you feel left out," she told CGTN.

Wang said most parents now urge their children to learn Mandarin, with students' Putonghua levels improving because society and parents are paying much more attention to this language. As a result, schools that offer a Mandarin syllabus can attract more local students.

A four-year Mandarin course was established at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology in 2012, and every single student has to earn three Mandarin learning credits before they graduate.

Dr. Keith Tong, director of the Center of Language Education of Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, said there is a pragmatic reason behind this change.



Dr. Keith Tong, director of the Center of Language Education of Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. /CGTN Photo

“20 years down the road, if we can teach our students to speak Putonghua fluently and accurately, then they will be more competitive, even when they look for jobs in Shanghai and Beijing.”

But some people have expressed concern that Mandarin might begin to challenge the position of Cantonese or English in Hong Kong.

20 years ago, a Danish reporter asked Dr. Tong if Putonghua would replace English as the dominant language in Hong Kong. He said that's not the way language works. 

“The answer is no. Language use doesn't happen just like that," said Tong. "Language use is decided by the people of a society. Cantonese, English and Putonghua will all remain important because each of them has a role to play in society.”

Dr. Tong added that the growing prevalence of Mandarin in Hong Kong is simply the result of the city's growing ties with the mainland. 


The growing popularity of learning Mandarin in Hong Kong - CGTN

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## Mista

Singaporean Chinese used to speak in dialects too. In fact, much more complicated than HK. The major dialect groups are Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese , Hakka and Hainanese, while Fuzhou dialect (Hokchia, Hokchew), Pu-Xian Min (HengHua), and Shanghainese are also spoken by a very small minority.

To simplify the language environment and forge a common Chinese cultural identity in the 1970s, the government actively discouraged the use of dialects and heavily promoted Mandarin as a lingua franca among the Chinese. Today Mandarin is the most commonly used language in Chinese households. It's painful for the elderly generation who can only speak in dialect during that time, but the younger generation today have benefited from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_Mandarin_Campaign

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## Captain77W

The Chinese Carrier is in Hong Kong Right now and it looks tiny when compared to the container ships in the port


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## Mista

*No easy fixes in sight to Hong Kong’s housing woes*

HONG KONG — Strike up a conversation about housing and soaring property prices in Hong Kong, and one is sure to receive an animated response.

“Hong Kong is such an advanced society but we have people living in coffin cubicles and subdivisions. This is a disgrace! Even other countries are laughing at us,” a mini bus driver in his 60s, who only wanted to be known as Mr Chan, told TODAY.

When asked what was the one thing she hoped the new Carrie Lam administration could achieve, a receptionist in her 60s, who only wanted to be known as Ann, said: “I hope the government can buck up, especially on the price of housing.”

“Young people find it very hard to buy their own place, because the prices are just too high. For people with average income, there is no way they can cope with the housing prices right now,” she added.

Ms Charmaine Ho, 25, a social media editor added: “(I wish for) affordable housing for locals. With that, we can stop worrying about spending the majority of our monthly pay on housing and have more time to create value for our home town”.

*A typical apartment in the former British colony now costs 18 times the annual median salary, making it the least affordable housing market in the world by far, according to a Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey.*

Despite repeated promises to tackle the issue, the government seems to have made little headway.

New Chief Executive Carrie Lam has pledged to make the housing issue a top priority during her tenure.

The underlying problem is limited supply. Land disputes have nearly halted plans to build big residential areas in the rural sections of northern Hong Kong.

Under a policy dating from the colonial era, families in traditional villages there are awarded long-term grants of land, producing suburban sprawl and making it difficult to put together a large parcel for development.

Money from the mainland has also been flowing in, driving up prices.

Plans to build elsewhere have stalled. Efforts to rezone the fringes of country parks for apartment buildings have been blocked by environmentalists, while the government has baulked at the cost of proposals by developers to subsidise land reclamation and build artificial islands.

And young people are bearing the brunt of this.

*Hong Kongers that TODAY spoke to said that for young couple looking to buy their own home, many of them will have to fork out at least HK$4 million (S$707,000) for a resale private apartment averaging 40 square metres in size. A new unit costs HK$5 million upwards.*

Those who cannot cope with the skyrocketing prices may have to resort to renting a subdivided room - some only big enough to fit a bed - at around HK$7,000 a month.

According to 2015 government statistics, almost 200,000 people were living in 88,000 subdivided flats.

“For young people, if they don’t earn enough to buy their own apartments or move out, all they can do is to be ‘fillial’ and continue staying with their parents,” said Mr Lai, a taxi driver, in jest.

“The apartments in Hong Kong are so small that people don’t even have space to put their things. Everything has to go into self storage rentals... I see on television how public housing in Singapore looks like, they are very spacious over there,” he added.

There is an option to apply for public housing units, where the size is usually between 30 and 60 square metres.

But there is an intricate quota and points system to navigate, with priority given to families and the elderly.

The city’s Housing Authority said in February that the average waiting time to get a public housing unit is just over four years and eight months.

Ms Alice Mak, a lawmaker with the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions said in an interview that the city’s first post-handover Chief Executive Tung Chee-hwa had attempted to address the issue, by pledging to build 85,000 public housing units every year.

“I am sorry to say that the second Chief Executive (Donald Tsang) did nothing apart from introducing a minimum wage for the people... The housing problem worsened. In fact, he invented the problem. The number of houses built during his term is the lowest in the last 20 years,” the pro-establishment lawmaker stated.

Ms Mak said that Mr Leung Chun-ying - who is Mrs Lam’s predecessor - merely inherited the problem from Tsang.

Mr Holden Chow, Vice Chairman of the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB) said in an interview that under Mr Leung, the government tried its best to boost housing supply.

“The government sought many different areas for major or future housing supply to serve future demand. But of course it takes time to build new housing,” he said.

Mr Chow, who is also a pro-establishment lawmaker highlighted that there was a proposal to build a new artificial island next to Lantau that could house up to 70,000 people, but this was resisted by the opposition on environmental grounds.

Others argue that it is a matter of political will.

“The government can easily set a target. Let’s say they set a target in three years’ time, housing prices should be halved. Just by lip service alone, the price will drop,” said Mr Albert Lai, the policy committee convener of The Professional Commons think tank in Hong Kong.

“Are they willing to set this target? They won’t because of vested interests. Despite all the talk of controlling housing prices or releasing more hand for housing, they are not doing it,” said the former vice chairman of the opposition Civic Party. Mr Lai asserted that there is actually sufficient government-owned vacant land that can be utilised.

Mr Lierence Li, a public relations professional in his 30s, said: “The government should see how they can find more land either by reclamation or collecting the land from the New Territories… Otherwise, the youth will complain about housing and the society becomes less stable”.

“There are so many voices (on how to tackle the problem). Some want to preserve the environment, while others say the surrounding should be more green... We can reclaim land, but people talk about saving the fishes... Do we really need that many country parks?” Mr Chan, the mini bus driver asked rhetorically.

“Think about this, now people don’t even have houses to live in, so let’s be practical.” 

http://www.todayonline.com/chinaindia/china/no-easy-solutions-hong-kongs-housing-woes

The housing situation in HK is really crazy.


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