# Senators fear China may use CPEC to enhance trade with India



## Devil Soul

*Senators fear China may use CPEC to enhance trade with India*
SYED IRFAN RAZA — UPDATED about an hour ago
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ISLAMABAD: Some lawmakers expressed concern on Wednesday over the possible use of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) by China to enhance trade with India. 

During a meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Planning and Development, some lawmakers were of the view that China was investing in the CPEC project to explore new vistas of trade with different countries right from neighbouring India to Central Asian states and Europe. 

Chairman of the committee Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi endorsed a point of view of a senator that with improved rail and road links with India through Munabao and Amritsar under the CPEC, China would expand its trade not only with Central Asian states and European countries but also with India to economically strengthen its eight underdeveloped provinces. 

“China will definitely use the CPEC to expand trade with India because one who invests always watches one’s interests first,” Mr Mashhadi said. 

He said China’s trade relations with India were far bigger than with Pakistan as China had inked $100 billion trade agreements with India last year. 

“Irrespective of sour Pakistan-India relations, China will do trade with Indian through the CPEC,” Mr Mashhadi said. 

Members of the committee asked railway authorities to lay rail tracks called ML-2 and ML-3 that link Pakistan with Iran and Afghanistan and Central Asian states. 

“These projects must be on the priority of China to reach these destinations,” Senator Saud Majeed said. 

However, railway officials informed the committee that they were focusing on improving the existing rail tracks called ML-1 from Karachi to upcountry as a majority of the people lived in the areas falling in alignment of ML-1. 

Senator Sirajul Haq said that the government should give priority first to those projects which were beneficial to the people of Pakistan and then it should safeguard interests of China. 

He was of the view that if the people of less developed areas in Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) did not benefit from the CPEC, they would have no other option but to take up arms to earn their livelihood. 

“If economic conditions of ignored areas are not improved, people living in those areas will be compelled to fight against anybody for only Rs2,000,” the Jamaat-i-Islami chief said. 

The officials of Pakistan Railways informed the committee that all rail projects being executed under the CPEC were planned by both Pakistan and China and the former alone could not go for any project on its own. 

“Both countries have joint working groups which plan and finalise projects,” they said. 

At this, Senator Haq said that recently some of his colleagues had visited China for discussions on the CPEC where they were informed by Chinese authorities that Pakistan had the sole right of planning and decision-making about CPEC projects and China had nothing to do with it. 

Senator Mohammad Usman Khan Kakar said that Pakistan Railways had not taken even a single step forward. 

“We have not gone beyond what we inherited from the British rulers,” he regretted. 

He suggested that plans for new railway tracks in Sindh and Balochistan (ML-2 and ML-3) must be implemented immediately because these were the routes which would make Pakistan economically strong. 

“We have abundance of natural resources like gold, copper, silver, marble and granite in these areas which can be marketed to Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asian states through rail routes,” he said. 

The committee was informed that a majority of electricity generation projects started by the government would be completed between 2018 and 2020.

_Published in Dawn November 17th, 2016_


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## PakSword

I think China can be given exception when exporting goods to India. Imports coming from India shouldn't be allowed due to security reasons.

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## -blitzkrieg-

PakSword said:


> I think China can be given exception when exporting goods to India. Imports coming from India shouldn't be allowed due to security reasons.



I doubt India would allow that traffic.

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## ito

It doesn't make sense for India to use CPEC. India and China share almost 2000 KM border. Chinese east, where majority of China live, is connected to India's east. A trade link/road there makes most sense.

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## PakSword

-blitzkrieg- said:


> I doubt India would allow that traffic.



Yes you are right and I am talking about on paper permission.


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## Hareeb

It wont happen. CPEC is not a single route b/w India and China. Due to Pakistan's concern, they can establish road and railway links through Nepal.


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## mdcp

Chinese export to india should be allowed with some taxes where as import from india must not be facilitated at any cost as it posses great threat to our national security as india will send chemicals and weapons to be use in terrorism in Pakistan

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## barbarosa

PakSword said:


> I think China can be given exception when exporting goods to India. Imports coming from India shouldn't be allowed due to security reasons.


India has no right to use CPEC direct or indirect trade.


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## fitpOsitive

Kia bakwas hai. Whether they do trade with India or Israel, its their own business. Apna haal sudharo pehly...

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## Sinnerman108

Nothing wrong with that.

Let china send , let Hindu-stan send, whats the harm ?

Keep making money on freight.

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## Ganges Zephyr

Pakistan should allow China-India trade through CPEC as some part of CPEC goes through Indian territory

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## Beast

They shall allow. It will allow Pakistan to hold India at ransom

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## Maxpane

A new propaganda against cpec .

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## Bouncer

That would be very lucky for us. These morons in Senate need to think like businessmen if they want to pull this country out of poverty. Anything that makes India rely on Pakistan's security gives Pakistan leverage. Examples would be Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline, TAPI and now this CPEC.

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## india2050

Nusrat was a milkmaid. She was carrying a pot of milk.

She had to deliver milk to her customers in a nearby village. As she was walking she kept on dreaming.

She said to herself, "With the money I get from selling this milk, I will buy some eggs. The eggs will hatch into fine chicken. The chicken will grow into hens. I will sell the hens and get lot of money. With that money I will buy nice silk saree. I will look beautiful. When people ask for the secret of my wealth, I will toss my head and say, "No."

When she dreams of saying 'No' She actually tossed her head and down fell the pot of milk and all the milk ran out on the ground.

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## Salza

DAWN again.

On daily basis they are publishing false,controversial and malicious content against CPEC for the last few months. Its becoming so obvious now that they are the main source of propaganda against CPEC.

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## MadDog

It is interesting to note that the same senator Mashadi last month called this CPEC a new East India Company, now he is doing this propaganda.
This is what he said last month
http://www.dawn.com/news/1290677

Looks like western funding is flowing consistently into this guy's pockets, hope Pak's intel agencies
are keeping a close eye on him, after a every few days, he comes up with a new excuse to malign CPEC. Last but not the least, a fact which should sum up everything, he is from MQM, it would be better to ignore him.
DAWN misreported this news like before when Mashadi spoke, its only Mashadi who said this , no other senator, so the word "senators" in dawn's title was utterly wrong.

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## rcrmj

PakSword said:


> I think China can be given exception when exporting goods to India.* Imports coming from India* shouldn't be allowed due to security reasons.


they need to have something to export to begin with, I mean something that we cant make

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## india2050

rcrmj said:


> they need to have something to export to begin with, I mean something that we cant make



mostly raw materials


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Ganges Zephyr said:


> Pakistan should allow China-India trade through CPEC as some part of CPEC goes through Indian territory


no it's pakistan territory along with some parts in indian control.

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## problemfreeleader

india2050 said:


> Nusrat was a milkmaid. She was carrying a pot of milk.
> 
> She had to deliver milk to her customers in a nearby village. As she was walking she kept on dreaming.
> 
> She said to herself, "With the money I get from selling this milk, I will buy some eggs. The eggs will hatch into fine chicken. The chicken will grow into hens. I will sell the hens and get lot of money. With that money I will buy nice silk saree. I will look beautiful. When people ask for the secret of my wealth, I will toss my head and say, "No."
> 
> When she dreams of saying 'No' She actually tossed her head and down fell the pot of milk and all the milk ran out on the ground.



CHINA SHOULD NOT TRUST INDIA WHICH IS SOME TIME BEGGING FROM RUSSIA THEN USA SOMETIME FROM GERMANY FOR WEAPONS DOING TERRORISM IN BALUCHISTAN NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES IF NEXT TIME ANY RAW AGENT FOUND IN PAK SO PAKISTAN SHOULD TAKE KHALISTAN KASHMIR AND OPENLY START SUPPORT AS THE INDIAN DOING IN BALUCHISTAN HINDUS WILL DIE GO INTO HELL SOON THEIR EYES ARE CLOSED.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

MadDog said:


> It is interesting to note that the same senator Mashadi last month called this CPEC a new East India Company, now he is doing this propaganda.
> This is what he said last month
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1290677
> 
> Looks like western funding is flowing consistently into this guy's pockets, hope Pak's intel agencies
> are keeping a close eye on him, after a every few days, he comes up with a new excuse to malign CPEC. Last but not the least, a fact which should sum up everything, he is from MQM, it would be better to ignore him.
> DAWN misreported this news like before when Mashadi spoke, its only Mashadi who said this , no other senator, so the word "senators" in dawn's title was utterly wrong.



Yes...This senator seems very suspicious to me as well.....Trying to create rift b/w Pakistan and China....Just look at his statement as if China is not our ally or friendly country and will over rule our interests for sake of their own...

ISI.....please take a deep look into him....

Why would China and India do trade through CPEC and when they already share border with each other.???

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## Sinnerman108

india2050 said:


> Nusrat was a milkmaid. She was carrying a pot of milk.
> 
> She had to deliver milk to her customers in a nearby village. As she was walking she kept on dreaming.
> 
> She said to herself, "With the money I get from selling this milk, I will buy some eggs. The eggs will hatch into fine chicken. The chicken will grow into hens. I will sell the hens and get lot of money. With that money I will buy nice silk saree. I will look beautiful. When people ask for the secret of my wealth, I will toss my head and say, "No."
> 
> When she dreams of saying 'No' She actually tossed her head and down fell the pot of milk and all the milk ran out on the ground.



thereafter Mother india relaxed ...
Nusrat is not gong to be successful anymore.
Mother india could not part her legs, for there was no fear of hairy large men from the west getting on her scent.

Come monkeys, ride the mice .. the time of mother india s here,
Stop wasting milk on the phallic like thing ...
come and taste my honey .. said mother india, closing with a cool sigh ...

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## Fireurimagination

Do these senators have ever seen a world map? We have a big border with China

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## LeGenD

China has plans for an Indo-Bangla economic corridor. For Indians, it would make greater sense to tap that.


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## BABA AGHORI

mdcp said:


> Chinese export to india should be allowed with some taxes where as import from india must not be facilitated at any cost as it posses great threat to our national security as india will send chemicals and weapons to be use in terrorism in Pakistan


It will not a cost effective for China to come through CPEC route, when they can easily reach India through east


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## Kompromat

What's wrong with that? - we charge them fees both ways.

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## salarsikander

india2050 said:


> Nusrat was a milkmaid. She was carrying a pot of milk.
> 
> She had to deliver milk to her customers in a nearby village. As she was walking she kept on dreaming.
> 
> She said to herself, "With the money I get from selling this milk, I will buy some eggs. The eggs will hatch into fine chicken. The chicken will grow into hens. I will sell the hens and get lot of money. With that money I will buy nice silk saree. I will look beautiful. When people ask for the secret of my wealth, I will toss my head and say, "No."
> 
> When she dreams of saying 'No' She actually tossed her head and down fell the pot of milk and all the milk ran out on the ground.


Off- Topic post. Reported @Oscar @waz

On Topic. I dont find any reason why shouldnt Include India. After all they are in 10 biggest economies of world. Lots of potential for two- way trade.


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## india2050

salarsikander said:


> Off- Topic post. Reported @Oscar @waz
> 
> On Topic. I dont find any reason why shouldnt Include India. After all they are in 10 biggest economies of world. Lots of potential for two- way trade.



Off- topic ? The point was , first complete the CPEC , then you can be in a vantage point regarding who you are going to allow to use the CPEC .....


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## DJ_Viper

PakSword said:


> I think China can be given exception when exporting goods to India. Imports coming from India shouldn't be allowed due to security reasons.



Sir, this sounds great on paper. But the reality is different. No one country would allow the import and not the exports. India would make money through exports. They won't just allow the Chinese products to come inside their country. Thanks



india2050 said:


> Nusrat was a milkmaid. She was carrying a pot of milk.
> 
> She had to deliver milk to her customers in a nearby village. As she was walking she kept on dreaming.
> 
> She said to herself, "With the money I get from selling this milk, I will buy some eggs. The eggs will hatch into fine chicken. The chicken will grow into hens. I will sell the hens and get lot of money. With that money I will buy nice silk saree. I will look beautiful. When people ask for the secret of my wealth, I will toss my head and say, "No."
> 
> When she dreams of saying 'No' She actually tossed her head and down fell the pot of milk and all the milk ran out on the ground.



WTH is this?


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## Hyde

We don't have to worry about it. It will add something into Pakistan's economy if such thing happened but I know India will be most uncomfortable to utilize such route

I am in favour of having economic relationship with the neighbours even if it means India. China and India shares border already so they can definitely explore the road link if Pakistan didn't allow an access to Western China through Pakistan


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## General General

It would be the easiest route for India to access Central Asia. It would also help Pakistan generate a pretty penny just from transit fees let alone lodging and fuel sales. However, the drivers from India must be cleared and registered with the Pakistani authorities with a sovereign guarantee from Indian government, because let's face it; the two countries don't trust each other. 
This would be a winning situation for all countries involved; Pakistan would be earning something for nothing and India would gain trade access through the most direct route possible. This arrangement would also provide an interdependence situation so like energy deals between Russia and European states, so the threat of armed conflict would be greatly reduced. Which would bring stability and eventually, investment.


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## Ea Returns

Hashish intellect... Anything transported through land is 10-12 times costly than water. Best route is through Bay of Bengal. Why would China export by covering 7000 KMs through road distance and inflate the cost more than 200% of factory outlet.

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## Echo_419

Beast said:


> They shall allow. It will allow Pakistan to hold India at ransom



You do know that you share a large boundary with us


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## salarsikander

india2050 said:


> Off- topic ? The point was , first complete the CPEC , then you can be in a vantage point regarding who you are going to allow to use the CPEC .....


Perhaps you have not seen the news how the first convoy went and unloaded cargoes in gwadar



Ea Returns said:


> Hashish intellect... Anything transported through land is 10-12 times costly than water. Best route is through Bay of Bengal. Why would China export by covering 7000 KMs through road distance and inflate the cost more than 200% of factory outlet.


Exactly, so much on hashish that they are willing to invest more than 46 b dollar. GAWD what are they even thinking about??

Trust me this CPEC is nothing but a gateway to Colonise and send us to mars

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## CriticalThought

I concur with members who r in favor of allowing trade with India. It gives us a card to wield against them when they try to heat up the border or LOC, for example.

That said, unlike Pakistani leaders, when Indian leaders call Pakistan their enemy, they truly mean it. No one is foolish enough to place one's interests at the mercy of the enemy, especially where there is no dire need to do so. Only a highly corrupt Indian leader would agree to such a thing, and he would milk every last ounce of bribe out of it.

Rather than worrying about granting CPEC access to India, we need to worry about Pakistani officials who r basically boot lickers of India.


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## Ea Returns

salarsikander said:


> Exactly, so much on hashish that they are willing to invest more than 46 b dollar. GAWD what are they even thinking about??



Lol!! At least read now about CPEC, i beg you... It's 90% loan, it's not FDI.

Anyways, this is for you to figure out... Instead of a sea route from Arabian sea - Indian Ocean - Pacific Ocean which is 1/12th the cost of land transportation, Why would China unload lacs of barrel of oil at Gwadar, fill it in tankers and cover through roads for almost 8000 KMs to it's population centers. That $40 barrel would become unaffordable by the time it reaches it's destination.

Only logic for CPEC i can think of, is that it's a redundant route made in case Pacific or Indian ocean routes are blocked. The only problem is, it's not made on chinese money but loan given to Pakistan who has to pay the interest + committed returns through it's nose. In other words, they have actually made you pay for their redundant route + earning from it without any obligation to transport anything. I hope you realize why the containers were empty.

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## salarsikander

Ea Returns said:


> Lol!! At least read now about CPEC, i beg you... It's 90% loan, it's not FDI.
> 
> Anyways, this is for you to figure out... Instead of a sea route from Arabian sea - Indian Ocean - Pacific Ocean which is 1/12th the cost of land transportation, Why would China unload lacs of barrel of oil at Gwadar, fill it in tankers and cover through roads for almost 8000 KMs to it's population centers. That $40 barrel would become unaffordable by the time it reaches it's destination.
> 
> Only logic for CPEC i can think of, is that it's a redundant route made in case Pacific or Indian ocean routes are blocked. The only problem is, it's not made on chinese money but loan given to Pakistan who has to pay the interest + committed returns through it's nose. In other words, they have actually made you pay for their redundant route + earning from it without any obligation to transport anything. I hope you realize why the containers were empty.


I know We are doomed man. It is no wonder that french has shown interest along with Turkey who is rushing to buy domestic appliance industry ( Dawlance) With Renault starting assemble in Karachi on 2018. Audi Ag also planning to bring in low-end cars. I know these all factors are pushing us towards doom. Indians have always warned us, but we never listen to them. That to China is so stupid Helping us build power plants to reduce chronic power shortages, not to mention the engineer they will bring their own  

We are so doomed. I wonder how comes Indian were able to scan for the containers and claim it were empty ? Trust me no one on planet earth makes fakes claims like Sir G kal strike hogi and all. I hope you understand that our doom is causing you enough pain that all you people have to do is warn us every single day. That indeed shows how much of pain it will become for you



Ea Returns said:


> Why would China unload lacs of barrel of oil at Gwadar


Exactly when it can down pipeline. So stupid of them, I know right !

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## Salza

Ea Returns said:


> Lol!! At least read now about CPEC, i beg you... It's 90% loan, it's not FDI.
> 
> Anyways, this is for you to figure out... Instead of a sea route from Arabian sea - Indian Ocean - Pacific Ocean which is 1/12th the cost of land transportation, Why would China unload lacs of barrel of oil at Gwadar, fill it in tankers and cover through roads for almost 8000 KMs to it's population centers. That $40 barrel would become unaffordable by the time it reaches it's destination.
> 
> Only logic for CPEC i can think of, is that it's a redundant route made in case Pacific or Indian ocean routes are blocked. The only problem is, it's not made on chinese money but loan given to Pakistan who has to pay the interest + committed returns through it's nose. In other words, they have actually made you pay for their redundant route + earning from it without any obligation to transport anything. I hope you realize why the containers were empty.



Dude you are new to the forum. Same (fdi or loan,shortest route or redundant route, good or bad) has been discussed about CPEC well and in complete detail. Please go through those topics before coming up with your Indian media shIt.


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## niaz

China’s trade with India is already huge. According to a report I read in India times during the first 4 months of 2016, Indian exports to China were $7.56-billion and imports from China $52.26-billion. Total trade volume being $60-billion.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ion-in-april-january/articleshow/51223260.cms

Whereas Pakistan’s total trade volume during 12 months ( 2014 2015) was:

Quote “Bilateral trade volume, which amounted to $4 billion in 2006-7, reached an all-time at $12 billion in 2014-15. Pakistan’s exports jumped to $2.1 billion in 2014-15 from $575 million in 2006-07. Correspondingly, China’s exports to Pakistan increased to $10.1 billion in 2014-15 from $3.5 billion in 2006-07.” Unquote

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1130268/free-trade-agreement-pakistan-failed-comes-trade-china/


You can see China /India trade volume is already 10 times that of Pakistan/ China. How much additional benefit would China gain from CPEC?

For heaven’s sake. Why are we paranoid about India? It appears that my compatriots still lack the maturity to understand that “If you are my friend, don’t be friendly with my enemy" only works for school kids but not in the real world. For example, can any rational thinking person justify PTI boycotting the parliament session during Erdogan’s address?

This is not an insult to Nawaz Sharif but a snub to Turkey and against all norms of hospitality to an honoured guest. Regrettably, no one in the PTI top echelons including Asad Omer, has the spine to point out this act of immaturity to Imran Khan. But then Imran Khan is only a hybrid and not a real Pashtun who are famous for their hospitality.


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## randomradio

Beast said:


> They shall allow. It will allow Pakistan to hold India at ransom



You mean to say Pakistan will stop Chinese exports?

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## Beast

randomradio said:


> You mean to say Pakistan will stop Chinese exports?


Why would Pakistan stop Chinese export? I am interested to hear your wonderful explanations?

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## randomradio

Beast said:


> Why would Pakistan stop Chinese export? I am interested to hear your wonderful explanations?



You said Pakistan can hold India ransom by stopping Indo-Chinese trade. And Indo-Chinese trade is basically Chinese exports to India.

So you are advocating stopping Chinese exports by holding India ransom. Haha.

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## Kabira

And how this is bad news? This senator again clearly look like on salary of someone.


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## abc123xyx

is this just a imaginery thought by pakistani think tank, 

or 

china has given this hint to pakistan govt.


???


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## boxer_B

randomradio said:


> You mean to say Pakistan will stop Chinese exports?



Haha, i thought exactly the same thing. Its Chinese high IQ logic,

Then again, Chinese logically proved to send submarines via Brahmaputra river in India.


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## Hassan Guy

Senators aren't very smart, are they?

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## Ea Returns

salarsikander said:


> That to China is so stupid Helping us build power plants to reduce chronic power shortages, not to mention the engineer they will bring their own



I haven't read rest of your rhetoric because it doesn't mean anything. Chinese have brought their own Engineer's.... does it ring a bell? You are not even getting employment over the money for which you will be paying interest and returns? You have so many unemployed talent that is queuing up for Visa to USA or Europe... who can make nuclear bombs and precision guided missiles but doesn't have necessary expertise for roads or coal power plants? give me a break...

Obviously empty containers is posted in your media...

MPTY CONTAINERS: Several containers that were brought to Gwadar were empty, according to people privy to the arrangements. Pakistan’s persistent trade deficit means that containers regularly accumulate within the country and often have to be shipped out empty.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1296262/first-ship-leaves-gwadar-amid-fanfare
http://www.dawn.com/news/1296727

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## shah1398

Well why shud senators be worried for enhancement of trades between China and India via CPEC? This ll nt only reduce tensions at the Indo Pak borders but indirectly deescalate tensions between the trio.


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## Kinetic

The only solution to CPEC problem is *ICEC (India China Economic Corridor)* but obviously not same as CPEC. China will not have free hand like in Pakistan but China can take advantage of better infra and stable social stability in Sikkim and WB to build a industrial corridor. But there will not be any free hand to sell Chinese products in Indian market and reverse should be allowed.

By this China will eliminate one of the largest enemy. Both sides win.

@Joe Shearer ??


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## salarsikander

Ea Returns said:


> I haven't read rest of your rhetoric because it doesn't mean anything. Chinese have brought their own Engineer's.... does it ring a bell? You are not even getting employment over the money for which you will be paying interest and returns? You have so many unemployed talent that is queuing up for Visa to USA or Europe... who can make nuclear bombs and precision guided missiles but doesn't have necessary expertise for roads or coal power plants? give me a break...
> 
> Obviously empty containers is posted in your media...
> 
> MPTY CONTAINERS: Several containers that were brought to Gwadar were empty, according to people privy to the arrangements. Pakistan’s persistent trade deficit means that containers regularly accumulate within the country and often have to be shipped out empty.
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1296262/first-ship-leaves-gwadar-amid-fanfare
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1296727


It just fills my eyes with tears when I See fellow Indians being so thoughftul of our plight .

If it makes you burn any better, heres the catch, the convoy was sent on pilot bases to check and run how smooth the transportation system is what can be done to improve. LOL the road networks connecting CPEC network is not even complete yet. This was just to silence the critics that yes we can undertake such project, we have the capacity. 

As far as loan is concern, China has never given us grant or Aid unlike USA , which is actually good in a sense, forcing us to work our way through it. And might I inform you that in past China has also forgiven Loans or restructure them in very favourable basis. OFC after years of terrorism attacks, no one will be willing to invest on our country, We need to improve our credit rating to let FDI come in. China with its loan is certainly helping us, did you check the Moody rating from B- to B. Ofc For a country like India it wouldn't mean a shit, but for a country like Pakistan its a good breathing space. 

You still have failed to observe the spill over effects of this projects, Such as I mentioned before of Trulish acquisition of PAkistan appliance manufacture, and French interests. OFc as an Indian you can only see and pick the negative parts that's all you can do. 

Well here's the deal, If we are so doomed why are you so worried you should be happy, right ? But certainly most of you arent. Which means yes we are on right track. 

And for FUK sake ! Indian are going to be the last people on planet earth to take advices from when it comes to Chinese Assistance. Its like us saying that Israel assistance for India is not good.


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## my2cents

-blitzkrieg- said:


> I doubt India would allow that traffic.



India is not in a position to influence policy with regard to CPEC. It is for China and Pakistan to sort it out.


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## salarsikander

Ea Returns said:


> MPTY CONTAINERS: Several containers that were brought to Gwadar were empty, according to people privy to the arrangements. Pakistan’s persistent trade deficit means that containers regularly accumulate within the country and often have to be shipped out empty.


LOL Doesnt take a genius to figure out that why. 

A country where the effects of American war on terror are still being felt, with chronic power shortages, it is no wonder that we can't fulfill our export orders, Hence, which is why CPEC focus is on building power generation capacity


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## -blitzkrieg-

my2cents said:


> India is not in a position to influence policy with regard to CPEC. It is for China and Pakistan to sort it out.


What i was referring to was Chinese goods going India through Pakistan.


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## randomradio

boxer_B said:


> Haha, i thought exactly the same thing. Its Chinese high IQ logic,
> 
> Then again, Chinese logically proved to send submarines via Brahmaputra river in India.



Most of the times they troll themselves without realizing it.


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## marbella

Supporting india china trade through cpec for profit????
Memons?


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## my2cents

-blitzkrieg- said:


> What i was referring to was Chinese goods going India through Pakistan.



I understood you the first time. If China is investing so heavily in your country they expect same kind of returns. By the way whose trucks will be used to transport inside Pakistan? Will it be Chinese trucks or Pakistani trucks?? If it is Chinese trucks they will not be happy sending empty trucks back after travelling such long distance.

As you are aware Afghans are also facing the same situation and they are not happy either.


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## abc123xyx

-blitzkrieg- said:


> What i was referring to was Chinese goods going India through Pakistan.


i already state many a time before that cpec is a road network only for efficient distribution of chinese goods ..thats all , it will target the domestic markets deep penitation and with help of the china govt subsidies will try distroyblocal menufecturing...
its same old game , since british rule...

indian govt will never going to allow this as they has already turned down the china-assam-bangladesh road link...
bangladesh can have its road link to china via mynmar...pakistan can have its own..
why they putting india in...if india see a need , we had several other locations to put road to connect china..

who going to check each packet of good entering into india via pakistan on security reasons..


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## SBD-3

Pakistan is perhaps the only nation on the face of this earth who's ego goes far beyond anything even the lowest level of common sense. 
You don't cut your bread and butter to settle egoistic scores. CPEC is an opportunity for Pakistan to become regional trade and transit hub. If India, Afghanistan, Iran, China or even Israel wishes to join it, common man will welcome it (Leaving aside some brainwashed or warmongering fools). CPEC's real potential is to go beyond just ChinaPakistanEC.


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## Indus Pakistan

Ea Returns said:


> is that it's a redundant route made in case Pacific or Indian ocean routes are blocked.


That is probably a factor - significant factor.



Ea Returns said:


> but loan given to Pakistan who has to pay the interest + committed returns through it's nose.


That's normal. The loan rates are favourable given the unique conditions that Pakistan finds itself in.



Ea Returns said:


> In other words, they have actually made you pay for their redundant route


Not really. Those roads, those power plants are in Pakistan. They connect differant regions of Pakistan - many remote regions have been opened up so Pakistani's benefit from they on day, to day basis and at the same time they can act as insurance for China. If the roads were blocked off and restricted to ony Chinese uses when they face problems you might have a point. But that is NOT the case.

Chinese like any investor have their reasons. However there is convergence of interest. It is win, win for both. Who is going to benefit the most? Well that depends on Pakistan. If it can use the potential offered by CPEC then it will be a big winner. Even if it fails to fully leverage the CPEC even then there will be benefits to cover the costs - for example theconnecting up ofdifferant regions of Pakistan many being remote.

I frankly hope CPEC is used to flood Pakistani market that destroys the franchize/assembling mafia which has the temerity to call itself 'industry'. Once the racketeers who manage franchize/assembling mafia are out of business it might give chance for Pakistani Tata's, Birla's to emerge.



> Senator Mashadai MQM


No wonder he is vocal. Karachi is going to be most adversely effected by CPEC


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## RealNapster

Maxpane said:


> A new propaganda against cpec .




Senate b Anti-CPEC ho gae . nae ?? Chalo ab inko b Ghaddar keh lo..

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## Maxpane

RealNapster said:


> Senate b Anti-CPEC ho gae . nae ?? Chalo ab inko b Ghaddar keh lo..


Her baat main india ghusana zarori nahn . india chi.a trade k liye pakistan k muhtaj nahn ur rahi bat ghadari ki tu main ne kis ko ghadar kaha ha ?

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## RealNapster

Maxpane said:


> Her baat main india ghusana zarori nahn



Har objection ko propaganda kehna b insaaf nahe mere bhai..



Maxpane said:


> ur rahi bat ghadari ki tu main ne kis ko ghadar kaha ha ?



Qunkay KP PTI ne objections uthae to taraki ki raah me "rukawat" qarar paye.. Is mulk me har aik ko baki sab ghadar lagty hay to agar apko b lagy to isme aise koi bari bat nahe...

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## Maxpane

Bhai is objection ki koi tuk nahn ha . ap bhi janty hain kchina india trade cpec k muhtaj nahn ur rahi tankid tu tankud baraye tamer honi chahye . senagor ne lambi chori ha.

Bhai pti jane ur govt janey but ager koi issue ha tu beth k solve kia ja sakta ha . shor machane se dushman faida utha ta ha ur nation main unity nahn rehti. ye mera point of view ha

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## Rasengan

Beast said:


> Why would Pakistan stop Chinese export? I am interested to hear your wonderful explanations?




The enemy is working hard to cause problems for CPEC. But always remember Brother the only opinion that matters in Pakistan is the Army. So far the Chief of Army Staff on a number of occasions has said this project is important for Chinese/Pakistan relations. But worry the anti-nationals and western stooges are being taken care of as we speak.

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## Ea Returns

Rasengan said:


> The enemy is working hard to cause problems for CPEC. But always remember Brother the only opinion that matters in Pakistan is the Army..



What enemy enemy bhaijaan... we have such odd projects announced every week... only metro expansion in Delhi is more than your CPEC road projects. Talk about Delhi mumbai Industrial corridor which is just Railway's Freight project twice the cost of CPEC, learn to give employment to your youth than propaganda and leave India alone... that's all we ask for.


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## SBD-3

Kaptaan said:


> No wonder he is vocal. Karachi is going to be most adversely effected by CPEC


ever heard of Pakistan Deep Water Container Port (PDWCP)? Upon completion It will share burden with Gawadar on CPEC. Karachi is here to stay.

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## Indus Pakistan

SBD-3 said:


> ever heard of Pakistan Deep Water Container Port (PDWCP)? Upon completion It will share burden with Gawadar on CPEC. Karachi is here to stay.


Karachi has been there since Alexander's time. It was there when Sir Charles Napier invaded Sindh in 1843 and the British developed it as major port for the Indus hinterland. The geography and rail lines secured it's eminence.

I was talking about the monopoly. Gwadar will break it and when ML3 or even ML2 lines are built it will take off. In tandem with the Westerly route of the CPEC it will provide a alternate to a route the route built by British.

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## H!TchHiker

I hope along with CPEC if we can have CPKC (China Pak knowledge corridor) this will be something that will shape the pakistan..


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## Rasengan

Ea Returns said:


> What enemy enemy bhaijaan... we have such odd projects announced every week... only metro expansion in Delhi is more than your CPEC road projects. Talk about Delhi mumbai Industrial corridor which is just Railway's Freight project twice the cost of CPEC, learn to give employment to your youth than propaganda and leave India alone... that's all we ask for.



1) If you had such projects announced every week then India would of had double digit figures in growth Currently you still have more poverty than the whole of Africa combined. Please stop being delusional. 
2) The first phase of CPEC is currently worth $51 billion, however this is expected to increase by 2022. In the next three phases by 2030 China will increase its investments that would make the first phase look like peanuts. 
3) I don't know why you are gloating Do you know within the next decade India requires a trillion dollars in infrastructure investments? If this target is not met then your country will face structural flaws. 
4) We don't give a flying hoot about India, but your chai wala prime minister keeps mentioning CPEC like a two dollar clown. 
5) China's rail investment in the next five years is bigger than your entire infrastructure investment.

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## Jackdaws

It is an excellent idea - India can always seal deals with Chinese middlemen to export their produce to Afghanistan and Central Asia using CPEC. Given how indebted and dependent Pakistan would be on China - they won't even say no. Ideally, Indian companies should set up subsidiaries in China and then milk the CPEC to the hilt. It would be a win-win for China and India both.


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## Muhammad Raza Mohaiuddin

Dhakkan 


Devil Soul said:


> *Senators fear China may use CPEC to enhance trade with India*
> SYED IRFAN RAZA — UPDATED about an hour ago
> WHATSAPP
> 11 COMMENTS
> PRINT
> ISLAMABAD: Some lawmakers expressed concern on Wednesday over the possible use of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) by China to enhance trade with India.
> 
> During a meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Planning and Development, some lawmakers were of the view that China was investing in the CPEC project to explore new vistas of trade with different countries right from neighbouring India to Central Asian states and Europe.
> 
> Chairman of the committee Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi endorsed a point of view of a senator that with improved rail and road links with India through Munabao and Amritsar under the CPEC, China would expand its trade not only with Central Asian states and European countries but also with India to economically strengthen its eight underdeveloped provinces.
> 
> “China will definitely use the CPEC to expand trade with India because one who invests always watches one’s interests first,” Mr Mashhadi said.
> 
> He said China’s trade relations with India were far bigger than with Pakistan as China had inked $100 billion trade agreements with India last year.
> 
> “Irrespective of sour Pakistan-India relations, China will do trade with Indian through the CPEC,” Mr Mashhadi said.
> 
> Members of the committee asked railway authorities to lay rail tracks called ML-2 and ML-3 that link Pakistan with Iran and Afghanistan and Central Asian states.
> 
> “These projects must be on the priority of China to reach these destinations,” Senator Saud Majeed said.
> 
> However, railway officials informed the committee that they were focusing on improving the existing rail tracks called ML-1 from Karachi to upcountry as a majority of the people lived in the areas falling in alignment of ML-1.
> 
> Senator Sirajul Haq said that the government should give priority first to those projects which were beneficial to the people of Pakistan and then it should safeguard interests of China.
> 
> He was of the view that if the people of less developed areas in Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) did not benefit from the CPEC, they would have no other option but to take up arms to earn their livelihood.
> 
> “If economic conditions of ignored areas are not improved, people living in those areas will be compelled to fight against anybody for only Rs2,000,” the Jamaat-i-Islami chief said.
> 
> The officials of Pakistan Railways informed the committee that all rail projects being executed under the CPEC were planned by both Pakistan and China and the former alone could not go for any project on its own.
> 
> “Both countries have joint working groups which plan and finalise projects,” they said.
> 
> At this, Senator Haq said that recently some of his colleagues had visited China for discussions on the CPEC where they were informed by Chinese authorities that Pakistan had the sole right of planning and decision-making about CPEC projects and China had nothing to do with it.
> 
> Senator Mohammad Usman Khan Kakar said that Pakistan Railways had not taken even a single step forward.
> 
> “We have not gone beyond what we inherited from the British rulers,” he regretted.
> 
> He suggested that plans for new railway tracks in Sindh and Balochistan (ML-2 and ML-3) must be implemented immediately because these were the routes which would make Pakistan economically strong.
> 
> “We have abundance of natural resources like gold, copper, silver, marble and granite in these areas which can be marketed to Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asian states through rail routes,” he said.
> 
> The committee was informed that a majority of electricity generation projects started by the government would be completed between 2018 and 2020.
> 
> _Published in Dawn November 17th, 2016_
> 
> Dhakkan Senetors.

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## SBD-3

Kaptaan said:


> Karachi has been there since Alexander's time. It was there when Sir Charles Napier invaded Sindh in 1843 and the British developed it as major port for the Indus hinterland. The geography and rail lines secured it's eminence.
> 
> *I was talking about the monopoly.* Gwadar will break it and when ML3 or even ML2 lines are built it will take off. In tandem with the Westerly route of the CPEC it will provide a alternate to a route the route built by British.


There's already and operational alternative port named Port Qasim. And its just not gonna end at PDWCP,


> The chief minister said that he has allocated land at Dhabeji to establish China-Pakistan Industrial Zone. This zone would attract Chinese and other investment and it would be very near to Karachi and the *proposed project of Keti Bandar for trade through sea and road routes.*
> https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/165070-Sindh-CM-discusses-CPEC-projects-with-Chinese-envoy


Karachi will stay relevant and even more relevant given the volatility increases in Balochistan. Karachi is the safest option for Chinese, especially after the completion of Karachi-Peshawar Motorway Linkup.


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## Indus Pakistan

SBD-3 said:


> Karachi will stay relevant and even more relevant given the volatility increases in Balochistan


Given the gangster amok in Karachi, killing, rackets, possible Indian RAW nexus with MQM I struggle to see Karachi as abode of stability as opposed to abode of volatility in Balochistan. Both have problems. I am not saying Karachi is going to become irrelevant - it became relevant when the British built the rail line to the hinterland back in 1880s. 

What I am saying is there will be alternative. Monopoly will be broken. That is what Gwadar is all about - why else would Chinese sink billions into Gwadar port. I hope there is open trade with China along with CPEC. I also hope that it will destroy local gangster franchize/assemble mafia. I know the region from where I am from depends almost entirely on foregin remittamces. People like me send money or build houses keeps the local economy running along.

So if there is flood of Chinese imports it is good thing. People will be able to buy cheap products instead of buying shoddy assembled products called 'Made in Pakistan' when in fact they come from abroad and are merely assembled inside Pakistan in some racket in Karachi like Suzuki cars or some other import licence money making enterprise pretending to be industry, when it is far from that.


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## SBD-3

Kaptaan said:


> Given the gangster amok in Karachi, killing, rackets, possible Indian RAW nexus with MQM *I struggle to see Karachi as abode of stability as opposed to abode of volatility in Balochistan*. Both have problems. I am not saying Karachi is going to become irrelevant - it became relevant when the British built the rail line to the hinterland back in 1880s.


You're not alone here, a lot of people actually make such points without visiting Karachi a single time in their entire life. So pretty much no surprises there.


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## Indus Pakistan

SBD-3 said:


> You're not alone here, a lot of people actually make such points without visiting Karachi a single time in their entire life. So pretty much no surprises there.


Well if we could only make comments based on our visits I think our room for discussion would shrink enormously. I doubt if you have been to Gwadar either - not that I have either.

And if there was genuine industry - say like a local car manufacturer like Tata Motors in India making cars in say Karachi then it would be worth protecting. But protecting rackets being run by players from outside with local collaborator is not genuine industry and deserves no protection. They are nothing but elaborate legalized 'Bhatta enterprises'.


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## SBD-3

Kaptaan said:


> Well if we could only make comments based on our visits I think our room for discussion would shrink enormously. I doubt if you have been to Gwadar either - not that I have either.


By visiting I meant living and realizing the local dynamics of Karachi. I hope you do realize that. Actually, Balochistan is still a pretty much no-go area beyond Hub and that you would find out once you travel on road from Karachi to Balochistan, Gawadar, Well I'm not there physically so I don't make claims on the aspects I am not aware of. What I know of is that when I reached a dealer about property in Gawadar, he quoted me that not the documents but the encroachments trade with land grabbers with good repute fetching higher prices.


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## Mrc

If you run after every dog that barks on your way... u will never reach your destination

Sir churchill


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## Indus Pakistan

SBD-3 said:


> By visiting I meant living and realizing the local dynamics of Karachi.


Well to me Balochistan and Karachi are 'no go areas' as much as beyond Hub it is a 'no go' for you. I know a doctor from Karachi who moved there in 1960s. In 1980s he moved to UK. He built a house in Karachi for his retirement but now is loath to go there because he does not feel secure. So as much as you make conclusions about what lays beyond Hub I also make my comclusions.

However I do know that the Chinese are behind Gwadar and if Karachi was able to muster the wind behind the Chinese sail as you claim they would not have invested in middle of no where. The fact is if Gwadar is developed, as is. The road from Gwadar to Hoshab, Quetta, Zhob, Dera Ismail Khan, Mianwali, Hakla on M1 near Hasan Abdal is completed as is being built, it will offer a straight route from KKH to Gwadar without even going near Karachi. I think you know the Chinese are behind that. Contracts for Hakla-DIK motorway already have been given.








Which will fit in with westerly route of the CPEC.

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## SBD-3

Kaptaan said:


> Well to me *Balochistan and Karachi are 'no go areas' as much as beyond Hub it is a 'no go' for you. I know a doctor from Karachi who moved there in 1960s. In 1980s he moved to UK. He built a house in Karachi for his retirement but now is loath to go there because he does not feel secure.* So as much as you make conclusions about what lays beyond Hub I also make my comclusions.


And perhaps that's why 6 Million of Pukhtoon population exists in Karachi, leaving other ethnic groups aside. 
http://tribune.com.pk/story/43827/the-pakhtun-in-karachi/


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## Indus Pakistan

SBD-3 said:


> And perhaps that's why 6 Million of Pukhtoon population exists in Karachi, leaving other ethnic groups aside.


Yes. Some were there in 1840s before British arrived. Some were there in 1900s after British arrived. Some were there in 1940s when a deluge arrived from India. Some are still there although the numbers have gone up but they cannot match the 10s of millions of others who have arrived since 1940s and who like Jewish migrants in Palestine now think they own it.

And they form the second largest group in the army that has been protecting the borders since 1947 including guarding the streams of migrants from Hindu and Sikhs.

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## SBD-3

Kaptaan said:


> Yes.* Some were there in 1840s before British arrived. *Some were there in 1900s after British arrived. Some were there in 1940s when a deluge arrived from India. Some are still there although the numbers have gone up but they cannot match the 10s of millions of others who have arrived since 1940s.


 okey. These some grew to 6 Million whereas you see nothing of Pukhtoon Origin in Old Karachi. Karachi knows the contribution of Parsis and Christians but I am still to see a building or an institution carrying the nameplate of a original Pukhtoon you're hypothesizing above. Those who've lived in Karachi have left their mark crystal clear. If you know of something, I'll be glad to be corrected.

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## Indus Pakistan

SBD-3 said:


> okey. These some grew to 6 Million whereas you see nothing of Pukhtoon Origin in Old Karachi.


Let me make this clear to you. If you talk about Karachi and ethnic groups remind yourself it is in Sindh. It belonged to Sindhi's. All other are migrants. I can't understand why one migrant group who arrived in 1947 think they own Karachi like it is their property and that Pashtun's are outsiders. The only 'natives' are Sindhi's.

And there was Pashtuns/Baluch in 1880s Karachi. I am doing research on 129th Baluch Regiment and the British originally raised it from Karachi in 1870s from Baluchi/Pashtun recruits.

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## SBD-3

Kaptaan said:


> Let me make this clear to you. If you talk about Karachi and ethnic groups remind yourself it is in Sindh. It belonged to Sindhi's. All other are migrants. I can't understand why one migrant group who arrived in 1947 think they own Karachi like it is their property and that Pashtun's are outsiders. The only 'natives' are Sindhi's.


Let me correct you as well, Karachi has always been a distinct city. If it ever had any influence of Sindhi Culture It would have been evident in the heritage of Karachi. Even the Sindh Mardissah tul Islam was formed by a person whose ancestry was that of Turkish


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## Indus Pakistan

The regiment was raised on 6 May 1846 at Karachi on the orders of General Sir Charles Napier, the British Governor of Sindh. Its manpower was mostly drawn from Balochis, Sindhis and Pathans of Sindh. Later, it also recruited Brahuis and Punjabi Muslims, while the recruitment area was extended to include Baluchistan, North-West Frontier Province and the Punjab.

Link > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/129th_Duke_of_Connaught's_Own_Baluchis



SBD-3 said:


> distinct city.


So? does that mean it belongs to you because it was 'distinct' - leaving asides that claim.



SBD-3 said:


> Turkish


So your a Turk now? Good for you. I am miffed by people claiming to be Arab, Syeds, Moghul when their exterior clearly exposes that as fallacy.



SBD-3 said:


> Karachi has always been a distinct city.


It was distinct. It was nurtured by British and mostly built by British. It was surrounded by miles of dry land which was unlike most of India. That and it's position as hinterland of Indus region made it distinct. It soon was built up with major military cantonment. 129th Baluchis were based there first. The dry desert climate, low population gave this city a very un-Indian look to it.






Anyway, whoever they are. All migrants can thank GM Syed whose resolution in 1940 or else Pashtuns would have still been in K-PK and you might still have been in - fill this space [ xxxxxxxxxxxx ]

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## Kabira

SBD-3 said:


> Let me correct you as well, Karachi has always been a distinct city. If it ever had any influence of Sindhi Culture It would have been evident in the heritage of Karachi. Even the Sindh Mardissah tul Islam was formed by a person whose ancestry was that of Turkish



There was population of pakhtuns in Sindh before 1947 and now speak sindhi. There were also many punjabis settled in Sindh before 1947, I have met few.


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## SBD-3

save_ghenda said:


> There was population of pakhtuns in Sindh before 1947 and now speak sindhi. There were also many punjabis settled in Sindh before 1947, I have met few.


Punjabis have even settled in Balochistan for long. Pukhtoons have even settled in areas now India. Most of the Muslim invaders in India were either of Turkish or Afghan descent and they settled in these areas. But I was talking about the communities which inhabited and shaped Karachi in what it is today.


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## Kabira

SBD-3 said:


> Punjabis have even settled in Balochistan for long. Pukhtoons have even settled in areas now India. Most of the Muslim invaders in India were either of Turkish or Afghan descent and they settled in these areas. But I was talking about the communities which inhabited and shaped Karachi in what it is today.



I was talking about post British era and before 1947.


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## -blitzkrieg-

my2cents said:


> I understood you the first time. If China is investing so heavily in your country they expect same kind of returns. By the way whose trucks will be used to transport inside Pakistan? Will it be Chinese trucks or Pakistani trucks?? If it is Chinese trucks they will not be happy sending empty trucks back after travelling such long distance.
> 
> As you are aware Afghans are also facing the same situation and they are not happy either.



Both Chinese and Pakistani Trucks participating. The same trucks will be used to send back imports (big portion of which will be for Xinjiang region) .There will always be empty containers going back , this is one transport loss which is negligible in the overall gain.


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## Ea Returns

Ea Returns said:


>





Rasengan said:


> 1) If you had such projects announced every week then India would of had double digit figures in growth Currently you still have more poverty than the whole of Africa combined. Please stop being delusional.
> 2) The first phase of CPEC is currently worth $51 billion, however this is expected to increase by 2022. In the next three phases by 2030 China will increase its investments that would make the first phase look like peanuts.
> 3) I don't know why you are gloating Do you know within the next decade India requires a trillion dollars in infrastructure investments? If this target is not met then your country will face structural flaws.
> 4) We don't give a flying hoot about India, but your chai wala prime minister keeps mentioning CPEC like a two dollar clown.
> 5) China's rail investment in the next five years is bigger than your entire infrastructure investment.



There is one problem with this long story... you are yet to read about CPEC. The height of ignorance about this project is amazing, your inexperience in such deals is taken advantage of.

1. It's not INVESTMENT but LOAN and that's too with unrealistic conditions. Technically one can do anything with Loan he wishes to but it's different story here. You have to pay interest which is highest anywhere in today's world (more than 5%), you commit return of 27% for coal electricity plants for which you have given free land. Worst, all expertise working on this project has to be chinese. One such eg. is Japan is financing Mumbai-Ahmadabad Bullet train project at $10 Billion@0.1% and with moratorium period of 30 yrs (no installment to be paid for first 30 yrs). In addition, after importing a fixed amount of trains, same will be produced locally for future requirements. Did it ring any bell for an all weather ally? I guess they have plan to milk you to the bones during all weathers. sorry for being so blunt.
2. I don't know other secret conditions which could be mortgages in case interest and returns are not feasible!!
3. 80% of CPEC amount is for coal fired electricity plants, only 20% (around $11 B) is for Road project... did i burst your bubble?
4. The cost/unit of this power plant has already shot up to Rs 17/unit, considering there are no delays and implemented on time. Do you think, your people are prepared to buy this costly electricity or would rather prefer to enjoy load shedding?
5. Only people who are getting benefited are your politicians and generals involved in signing off this deal whom chinese have bribed to the throat. Many of them will flee to US/UK after retirement.
6. When you are not informed about Pakistan, i don't expect you to know anything about India. Keep dancing in your la-la land,


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## Rajaraja Chola

mdcp said:


> Chinese export to india should be allowed with some taxes where as import from india must not be facilitated at any cost as it posses great threat to our national security as india will send chemicals and weapons to be use in terrorism in Pakistan



Lol. Why will we allow anything coming from Pakistani soil when we are reciprocated? We can also use CPEC to export things to China through Pakistan. 

If Pakistan wants to block India, then it is welcome. We are poised to become 3rd largest economy with exports near 1 trillion Dollars by 2030. And a time will come where a single Indian state will export more than Pakistani economy to China. 

All the best


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## Kabira

Ea Returns said:


> There is one problem with this long story... you are yet to read about CPEC. The height of ignorance about this project is amazing, your inexperience in such deals is taken advantage of.
> 
> 1. It's not INVESTMENT but LOAN and that's too with unrealistic conditions. Technically one can do anything with Loan he wishes to but it's different story here. You have to pay interest which is highest anywhere in today's world (more than 5%), you commit return of 27% for coal electricity plants for which you have given free land. Worst, all expertise working on this project has to be chinese. One such eg. is Japan is financing Mumbai-Ahmadabad Bullet train project at $10 Billion@0.1% and with moratorium period of 30 yrs (no installment to be paid for first 30 yrs). In addition, after importing a fixed amount of trains, same will be produced locally for future requirements. Did it ring any bell for an all weather ally? I guess they have plan to milk you to the bones during all weathers. sorry for being so blunt.
> 2. I don't know other secret conditions which could be mortgages in case interest and returns are not feasible!!
> 3. 80% of CPEC amount is for coal fired electricity plants, only 20% (around $11 B) is for Road project... did i burst your bubble?
> 4. The cost/unit of this power plant has already shot up to Rs 17/unit, considering there are no delays and implemented on time. Do you think, your people are prepared to buy this costly electricity or would rather prefer to enjoy load shedding?
> 5. Only people who are getting benefited are your politicians and generals involved in signing off this deal whom chinese have bribed to the throat. Many of them will flee to US/UK after retirement.
> 6. When you are not informed about Pakistan, i don't expect you to know anything about India. Keep dancing in your la-la land,



Provide source of your claims, which projects are loans, investment etc? For exemple Gwader airport with cost of $260 million is Chinese grant. $8 billion Karachi-Peshawar railway up gradation is loan at rate of around 1%. Other projects like some motorways are on BOT basis. 

You are making up lots of stuff. No one said China is giving aid to Pakistan. 95% of CPEC projects are for local use foremost including roads. Connectivity with China is added benefit.

Rs 17 is for solar project with 100MW, it will come down. Coal power plants will cost 10 cent initially but after some years will come down to 5-6.


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## Ea Returns

save_ghenda said:


> Provide source of your claims, which projects are loans, investment etc? For exemple Gwader airport with cost of $260 million is Chinese grant. $8 billion Karachi-Peshawar railway up gradation is loan at rate of around 1%. Other projects like some motorways are on BOT basis.
> 
> You are making up lots of stuff. No one said China is giving aid to Pakistan. 95% of CPEC projects are for local use foremost including roads. Connectivity with China is added benefit.
> 
> Rs 17 is for solar project with 100MW, it will come down. Coal power plants will cost 10 cent initially but after some years will come down to 5-6.



http://www.dawn.com/news/1290523
http://www.dawn.com/news/1286698/hidden-costs-of-cpec
You inflows due to CPEC will be around 2.2 % of your GDP while outflows will be around 11%





You have committed Rs 18/unit, that's how you will repay $33 Billion project of coal power plants and full fill it's rate of 27% return. This is what your media says, not me.


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## Kabira

Ea Returns said:


> http://www.dawn.com/news/1290523
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1286698/hidden-costs-of-cpec
> You inflows due to CPEC will be around 2.2 % of your GDP while outflows will be around 11%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have committed Rs 18/unit, that's how you will repay $33 Billion project of coal power plants and full fill it's rate of 27% return. This is what your media says, not me.



From your link

_"Outflows will also come in the form of repayment obligations on the loans taken from Chinese banks for these projects, which are expected to rise after 2021. Both of these, repayments and profit repatriation, “could reach about 0.4 per cent of GDP per year over the longer run”."_

After 2021 when these projects will not only be completed but start generating revenues for state to pay back. Obviously nothing is written on stone that's why China is taking "risk". By 2021 Pakistan GDP will be about $500-600 billion. And tax collection $60-70 billion.

And your rs 18 per unit is big fat lie and I don't even want to correct you. Keep believing what you want. Thar coal will cost 10 cent initially and later on 5-6 cent after 5 years.


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## abc123xyx

Rajaraja Chola said:


> Lol. Why will we allow anything coming from Pakistani soil when we are reciprocated? We can also use CPEC to export things to China through Pakistan.
> 
> If Pakistan wants to block India, then it is welcome. We are poised to become 3rd largest economy with exports near 1 trillion Dollars by 2030. And a time will come where a single Indian state will export more than Pakistani economy to China.
> 
> All the best



our main export to china are the raw materials , they import it from us out of cumpulsion, but soon our menufecturing will need that raw material too....so ,our export to china will decrease....as far as pakistan is concern , eventually they had to came india....presently , let them learn , the way srilankan and africans had learn....chinese are the most unreliable...." matlab ke yaar ".....matlab nekal gaya , to pahchantey nahi...


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## mrrehan

ISLAMABAD: Some lawmakers expressed concern on Wednesday over the possible use of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) by China to enhance trade with India.

During a meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Planning and Development, some lawmakers were of the view that China was investing in the CPEC project to explore new vistas of trade with different countries right from neighbouring India to Central Asian states and Europe.

Chairman of the committee Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi endorsed a point of view of a senator that with improved rail and road links with India through Munabao and Amritsar under the CPEC, China would expand its trade not only with Central Asian states and European countries but also with India to economically strengthen its eight underdeveloped provinces.

“China will definitely use the CPEC to expand trade with India because one who invests always watches one’s interests first,” Mr Mashhadi said.

He said China’s trade relations with India were far bigger than with Pakistan as China had inked $100 billion trade agreements with India last year.

“Irrespective of sour Pakistan-India relations, China will do trade with Indian through the CPEC,” Mr Mashhadi said.

Members of the committee asked railway authorities to lay rail tracks called ML-2 and ML-3 that link Pakistan with Iran and Afghanistan and Central Asian states.

“These projects must be on the priority of China to reach these destinations,” Senator Saud Majeed said.

However, railway officials informed the committee that they were focusing on improving the existing rail tracks called ML-1 from Karachi to upcountry as a majority of the people lived in the areas falling in alignment of ML-1.

Senator Sirajul Haq said that the government should give priority first to those projects which were beneficial to the people of Pakistan and then it should safeguard interests of China.

He was of the view that if the people of less developed areas in Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) did not benefit from the CPEC, they would have no other option but to take up arms to earn their livelihood.

“If economic conditions of ignored areas are not improved, people living in those areas will be compelled to fight against anybody for only Rs2,000,” the Jamaat-i-Islami chief said.

The officials of Pakistan Railways informed the committee that all rail projects being executed under the CPEC were planned by both Pakistan and China and the former alone could not go for any project on its own.

“Both countries have joint working groups which plan and finalise projects,” they said.

At this, Senator Haq said that recently some of his colleagues had visited China for discussions on the CPEC where they were informed by Chinese authorities that Pakistan had the sole right of planning and decision-making about CPEC projects and China had nothing to do with it.

Senator Mohammad Usman Khan Kakar said that Pakistan Railways had not taken even a single step forward.

“We have not gone beyond what we inherited from the British rulers,” he regretted.

He suggested that plans for new railway tracks in Sindh and Balochistan (ML-2 and ML-3) must be implemented immediately because these were the routes which would make Pakistan economically strong.

“We have abundance of natural resources like gold, copper, silver, marble and granite in these areas which can be marketed to Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asian states through rail routes,” he said.

The committee was informed that a majority of electricity generation projects started by the government would be completed between 2018 and 2020.

_Published in Dawn November 17th, 2016_



Its a Good thing


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## Ea Returns

save_ghenda said:


> By 2021 Pakistan GDP will be about $500-600 billion. And tax collection $60-70 billion.



From $285 Billion in 2016, how would you become 500-600 Billion economy in 4 yrs, god knows! Would you be growing at rate of 25% or what.

You never listen to debate on CPEC in your media... do it. That will help you calm down. I personally find it very interesting.

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## Sam.

Ea Returns said:


> From $285 Billion in 2016, how would you become 500-600 Billion economy in 4 yrs, god knows! Would you be growing at rate of 25% or what.
> 
> You never listen to debate on CPEC in your media... do it. That will help you calm down. I personally find it very interesting.


They will achieve it with magic wand. You got a problem?


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## Rasengan

Ea Returns said:


> There is one problem with this long story... you are yet to read about CPEC. The height of ignorance about this project is amazing, your inexperience in such deals is taken advantage of.
> 
> 1. It's not INVESTMENT but LOAN and that's too with unrealistic conditions. Technically one can do anything with Loan he wishes to but it's different story here. You have to pay interest which is highest anywhere in today's world (more than 5%), you commit return of 27% for coal electricity plants for which you have given free land. Worst, all expertise working on this project has to be chinese. One such eg. is Japan is financing Mumbai-Ahmadabad Bullet train project at $10 Billion@0.1% and with moratorium period of 30 yrs (no installment to be paid for first 30 yrs). In addition, after importing a fixed amount of trains, same will be produced locally for future requirements. Did it ring any bell for an all weather ally? I guess they have plan to milk you to the bones during all weathers. sorry for being so blunt.
> 2. I don't know other secret conditions which could be mortgages in case interest and returns are not feasible!!
> 3. 80% of CPEC amount is for coal fired electricity plants, only 20% (around $11 B) is for Road project... did i burst your bubble?
> 4. The cost/unit of this power plant has already shot up to Rs 17/unit, considering there are no delays and implemented on time. Do you think, your people are prepared to buy this costly electricity or would rather prefer to enjoy load shedding?
> 5. Only people who are getting benefited are your politicians and generals involved in signing off this deal whom chinese have bribed to the throat. Many of them will flee to US/UK after retirement.
> 6. When you are not informed about Pakistan, i don't expect you to know anything about India. Keep dancing in your la-la land,




1) Please provide credible evidence that coal projects in CPEC are returning 27% to the Chinese.
2) Useless point
3) No you didn't burst my bubble, however you proved how silly you are. Dawn is currently under investigation and its fighting against the interests of Pakistan, so their opinion means jackshit. What wrong with coal fired electricity plants when India is using 60% of its energy needs from coal. Why are you so concerned anyway. By the way most of the workers on this project are Pakistanis. 
4) Useless point.
5) Honestly I am bored with your argument.

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## Ea Returns

Rasengan said:


> 1) Please provide credible evidence that coal projects in CPEC are returning 27% to the Chinese.
> 2) Useless point
> 3) No you didn't burst my bubble, however you proved how silly you are. Dawn is currently under investigation and its fighting against the interests of Pakistan, so their opinion means jackshit. What wrong with coal fired electricity plants when India is using 60% of its energy needs from coal. Why are you so concerned anyway. By the way most of the workers on this project are Pakistanis.
> 4) Useless point.
> 5) Honestly I am bored with your argument.



I posted link of one of your news channel where guest is asking editor to suggest a scheme in Pakistan of 27% return where he can invest money, like CPEC. This point is usually debated on your news channels, follow it.





It's true we have been generating electricity from Coal but we are fast diverting to non polluting Nuclear/solar energy. India has completed 10 GW of it's solar parks and aim to complete 100 GW by 2022. Those are ambitious target but let's make it by 2030. There are in progress projects of 40 GW of nuclear plants to be installed over next decade, you can wikipedia it. Solar energy price are as down as Rs. 4.34 in India putting a big question mark on every other form of energy. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-drops-to-record-low/articleshow/50643394.cms

In Sahiwal power project, Chinese have been demanding 11.67 to 12.4 cents per unit tariff. It even says that due to this, they are bowing out of this project.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1259048

Point is today when you are installing an electricity plant, you have to keep it for next 50 yrs to make it feasible.


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## Rasengan

Ea Returns said:


> I posted link of one of your news channel where guest is asking editor to suggest a scheme in Pakistan of 27% return where he can invest money, like CPEC. This point is usually debated on your news channels, follow it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's true we have been generating electricity from Coal but we are fast diverting to non polluting Nuclear/solar energy. India has completed 10 GW of it's solar parks and aim to complete 100 GW by 2022. Those are ambitious target but let's make it by 2030. There are in progress projects of 40 GW of nuclear plants to be installed over next decade, you can wikipedia it. Solar energy price are as down as Rs. 4.34 in India putting a big question mark on every other form of energy. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-drops-to-record-low/articleshow/50643394.cms
> 
> In Sahiwal power project, Chinese have been demanding 11.67 to 12.4 cents per unit tariff. It even says that due to this, they are bowing out of this project.
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1259048
> 
> Point is today when you are installing an electricity plant today, you have to keep it for next 50 yrs to make it feasible.



Can't you read....I said give me evidence not newspaper articles and opinions of commentators on some show. Dawn is under investigation for fighting against the interests of Pakistan and are probably going to be closed soon. I am still waiting for that magical 27% return figure.


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## Ea Returns

Rasengan said:


> Can't you read....I said give me evidence not newspaper articles and opinions of commentators on some show. Dawn is under investigation for fighting against the interests of Pakistan and are probably going to be closed soon. I am still waiting for that magical 27% return figure.



You disown your media... You disown your newspaper, how do expect me to give you an evidence


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## Rasengan

Ea Returns said:


> You disown your media... You disown your newspaper, how do expect me to give you an evidence



Your knowledge on Pakistan is zilch. I would take whatever Dawn says with a pinch of salt because they are working against the interests of Pakistan. I want you to provide me a document where it clearly states that Pakistan will give China 27% return in coal electricity. Just because somebody makes a statement from the media doesn't mean its true. Maybe it works for you because you are a gullible Indian.

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## Ea Returns

Rasengan said:


> Your knowledge on Pakistan is zilch. I would take whatever Dawn says with a pinch of salt because they are working against the interests of Pakistan. I want you to provide me a document where it clearly states that Pakistan will give China 27% return in coal electricity. Just because somebody makes a statement from the media doesn't mean its true. Maybe it works for you because you are a gullible Indian.



This statement has been repeated in media more than one occasion and by different anchors/hosts. I would suggest you to listen to your news-channels on CPEC, not only "game changer" thing but also a different point of view that discuss other side of the coin. Calling newspaper and news channels "Gaddar" is not a solution.


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## SMC

Ea Returns said:


> You disown your media... You disown your newspaper, how do expect me to give you an evidence



This is a childish, fallacious and oversimplistic argument. People in most countries question their media, with bharat being an exception where whatever is aired in the media that is pro-government is gobbled up like gospel. Throughout Europe, North America, media is questioned when it makes a claim without anything to back up the claim. 

Look how seriously people took the mainstream media when it came to US elections and brexit. Do you seriously think people in most countries just believe their media without putting in their own thought, just because bharatis just blindly believe media like its gospel? In this particular case, a claim is being made without being backed up. It's reasonable to question the validity of the claim.

Why do I keep finding such simpleton bharatis who keep coming up with childish arguments such as "you disowned your media and newspaper".

It's interesting bharatis want us to shift our opinion to the detractors and the glass half empty clowns in the Pakistani media. They want us to treat their word as gospel truth and that if we don't listen to them we're disowning the media. At the same time, they do not mention all the other media sources that are not detractors and don't look at Pakistan as glass half empty.

Which reminds me, what happens when 2 media outlets contradict each other, which do you believe if you must believe everything media says?

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## zenglanmu

ito said:


> It doesn't make sense for India to use CPEC. India and China share almost 2000 KM border. Chinese east, where majority of China live, is connected to India's east. A trade link/road there makes most sense.



But what makes the 2000km border is the highest moutaings in the world. Currently only sea routes can provide enough traffic.


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## ito

zenglanmu said:


> But what makes the 2000km border is the highest moutaings in the world. Currently only sea routes can provide enough traffic.



There are lot of routes between mountains where roads can be built.

https://ias.org.in/2016/02/mountain-pass-india.html

The most famous one is natula pass in sikkim


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